Welcome to the Broken Record Department! You were sent here because you are trying to make a Broken Record Argument, an argument that we have heard so many times before that it has its very own post! If you wish to continue arguing your point, please do so under the appropriate thread listed below.
If you are new here you should read the Comment Policy. You might want to see the Reader’s Guide.
Thank you for your cooperation.
Broken Record Arguments:
- Having a Broken Record Department is unfair, it amounts to censorship!
- Not all Whites are what you say.
- Whites are not uniquely evil.
- Blacks are just as racist if not more so.
- Racism is dead.
- I don’t like your tone.
- Your talk about race is divisive. You need to kiss up to Whites.
- You see racism in everything!
- Black crime statistics
- Black rape statistics, particularly
- The average African IQ is 70
- Black American IQ
- The Bell Curve is right!
- The BET Fallacy: Using BET, Rented Negroes, Black comedians or hip hop artists to prove something about black people
- Thief-thief arguments (moral deflection):
- The Arabs traded slaves too!
- Africans sold their own people into slavery
- Asian Atrocity argument – Whites are not as bad as Mao, Genghis Khan, etc
- Black-on-Black crime
- Racist Uncles – most Whites are not as bad as the Klan
- The Bootstrap Myth: If Jews or Asians or my grandfather can make it in America, anyone can! Blacks are just a bunch of layabout whiners.
- Black pathology: Blacks are their own worst enemies.
- There is some truth to stereotypes.
- Racism is a universal, natural, part of human nature.
- The White Inventor argument.
- “Your blog is anti-White”
- Race is a fact of science
- The black-on-black crime argument
- The race baiter argument
- The Broken Africa stereotype – Africa is a hellhole
- Take Japan, for instance – Japan is just as racist as the US
- The Irish had it hard too – *sniff*
Future Broken Record Argument posts:
- The higher black crime rates proves that Blacks have greater criminal tendencies than Whites.
- Affirmative action
- Whites do not benefit from racism, past (slavery, genocide, Jim Crow, etc) or present.
- Making general statements about Whites is racist.
– Abagond, 2012, 2015.
See also:
Abagond 
@ abagond:
I’m looking forward to the Future Broken Record Argument posts.
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@ Leigh
LOL. Me too. Some person name Birdie is harping about crime statistics. The way they talk about it it is almost like I am suppose to have one because I am black. LOL.
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@Sharina
…Birdie is harping about crime statistics
Don’t you mean ‘chirping’ 😉
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@ Demerera
LOL!!
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@ Sharina:
Remember when I told you a little birdie told me Birdie was full of it? Well, there you go. lol! 😀
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Love the idea of a broken record dept, I may have to borrow this idea…
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Some of those arguments are legitimate too. But people who look at race relations through marxist ways of thnking don’t let reason and logic burst their bubble.
Here are the other most frequent arguments,or rather,propositions and paradigms,on this blog:
Whites are racist.
White privilege (as in whites benefiting from being preferred by other whites,which is considered to be unfair.)
White supremacy (not necessarily the ideology,but the results of whites pursuing and protecting their interests).
White racist pathology.
Systemic racism.
Pervasive racism.
Institutional racism.
Implied racism.
Whites don’t get it (meaning,whites don’t understand the propositions and paradigms).
Lists of trivia,categories,cliches,stereotypes having to do with race (not actually arguments,but used to provoke emotional reactions.
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@ Anthony
The point of the list is not to condemn but to keep most of my threads from going off track with the same old derailments. For example, maybe the White Inventor Argument is true, or the black rape statistics thing, but a) they are repeatedly brought up OFF TOPIC on other threads and b) I already have posts on them.
Of course, that is not to say I do not have my own tropes, misconceptions and pet arguments, some of them probably racist. I am not an intellectual saint.
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@ Abagond,
It’s inevitable that people would get off topic when the topic is a smear about white people in general,or the dubious concept of white privilege,or a race-centered version of history that is intended to provoke emotional reactions. For example,with the topic of white privilege in society or business,there is usually no way to prove intent,and the personal preference and choices of white people and the results thereof are implicated and portrayed as a caste system. So what are white people supposed to do with that,when their own experiences and observations do not confirm it? Of course they will respond with real-life examples that contradict the claims or put things in perspective. Privilege is not even the right word,because there is no special right or benefit with regard to white people getting hired or promoted.
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“Privilege is not even the right word,because there is no special right or benefit with regard to white people getting hired or promoted.”
******
Anthony
The evidence re WHITE privilege (relative to non-whites) is overwhelming!
Please. The truth is out there for anyone whose truly willing to see it.
Hint: Do LESS writing/talking and MORE listening/reading/studying/research..
Then – if possible – you might GET a clue.
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@ Anthony Puccetti
Your comment assumes whites are the centre of the universe, which is incorrect.
Suggested reading:
http://abagond.tumblr.com/post/31398350229
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2009/11/17/the-feelings-of-white-people/
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2011/04/06/i-do-not-write-this-blog-for-white-people/
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@ Bulanik
Thanks for expounding for our clueless guest on just a few of the ways his unacknowleged WHITE PRIVILEGE works – and how it affects them, and others.
*****
“Most of my life (I doubt if I am alone when I say this! LOL!), I’ve had to pay really close attention to whites, and their ways, in order that I could avoid displeasing them and losing out. Trust me when I say this: it is compounded when you are a female human, Matari — to get and keep employment, in education settings, in everyday dealings, in lots of stress-making, tedious situations. ”
*****
I can relate to paying close attention to their ways … but in all honesty, I thought black women fared better than black men in employment. Here’s why (according to my opinion and experience living in racist America):
1. Employing black women was a two for the price of one in terms of govt credit. 1) a female. 2) a (so-called) minority.
(You probably know that AmeriKKKa lives/loves to count, label, categorize and arrange Americans of every so-called race…)
2. Black females are less intimidating and “threatening” than black (brutes) males. Which means whites in academic and business settings are generally more comfortable around you (female), rather than me (male).
3.Want to undermine and weaken the black community/family structure? Make it easier for black women to find and keep work… while putting all sorts of walls, barriers, obstacles and nonsense in the black man’s path to find and keep employment – and his family …
Anyway, getting back to the topic of privilege… you’re absolutely correct!
“Their privilege shields them from paying any attention to people who are not white..”
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Please let me send you a copy of my book The Wheat Money (avail on Amazon) I reference this blog post as one of the starting points for whites hoping to become good allies.
For anyone interested, my web page has a contact form for any questions. The website is TheWheatMoney dot com.
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Thank you for writing this. I discovered this site fairly recently and am ravenously devouring these posts. Please, please do one on the “science of race” as you say you will in the future. I would love to read your assessment of Lewontin’s work debunking race.
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“Yes, it would RADICALLY change things. It would mean that whites would commit less than TEN PERCENT of the violent crimes and blacks would commit more than 90% of the violent crimes.”—How did you come up with that considering the only thing I did was switch black population with white. 247928 still are arrested violent crime.
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@ Matari
I agree with your post. I also would add (if you have not already) that who you know goes a long way. I have been pulled over for speeding in one of the small towns around here. Yet I have seen white drivers who have been driving crazy and fast, but have yet to get pulled over. I also see those same driver chatting with the local law enforcement.
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Hi Sharina
“I agree with your post. I also would add (if you have not already) that who you know goes a long way.”
*************
That wasn’t my post – as in I didn’t write it. It was posted in 2 locations in response to you know who’s silly diatribe about black crime stats. One was posted on the open thread and the other was posted where I shouldn’t have placed it …
Sorry Abagond.
The two posts were pretty much identical, except one had a hyperlink leading back to the footnotes on the original author’s page where I found this piece. The other post excluded any links. Neither of these posts appeared here when I posted them, according to *my* browser . I thought they were caught in one of Abagond’s filters. In fact, I haven’t yet seen either of them, so I’m assuming they were held, and then deleted, possibly because I failed to follow specific protocol(s).
I thought the author of this piece, Tim Wise, articulated some very compelling points regarding how *unthinking minds* see and interpret black crime stats.
Both the piece and its footnotes can be found here:
http://www.timwise.org/2005/05/excuses-excuses-how-the-right-rationalizes-racial-inequity-part-two-criminal-justice/
And yes, it is a “who you know” – and who likes you enough to do favors – world!
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@ Matari
Either way I am very glad you posted it. I have noticed that I am starting to fall into that trap of crime statistics when these trolls bring it up and I needed that to wake me up into the reality of statistics.
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@ Abagond
“Broken Record Dept”= Genius. I love your work overall and I love this.
@ Bulanik
James Baldwin= Brilliant. I love him so much and his work has been beyond meaningful to me in my life. Perfect words to post.
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Ahahahah!!! Broken record dept !!! Nice idea !!! Thanks for your time and your tought.
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I have nominated your blog for the Reader Appreciation Award.
More about this nomination is at: http://whatsimportantinlife.wordpress.com/2013/10/08/reader-appreciation-award-thank-you-moorbey/
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The bullying of young white kids happens so often nowadays all around the world, that it has become a “broken record”!
(http://www.mrconservative.com/2013/10/25927-boy-bullied-for-being-white-commits-suicide/)
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dave – thanks so much for bringing this up. You are so right. it happens so often that you needed to go halfway around the world to find an example. Please keep up the excellent research. when the next one happens be sure to report back here.
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What a great idea; thank you for collecting all these “records” in one place.
Its like the weight room at my gym.
Thanks.
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Hey Abagond. You here everyday whining about white. Looks to me like you are the “BROKEN RECORD”
Get a life!!
Whining:
“to utter a low, usually nasal, complaining cry or sound, as from uneasiness, discontent, peevishness, etc.
2.
to snivel or complain in a peevish, self-pitying way: He is always whining about his problems.
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Hey Abagond. You here everyday whining about white. Looks to me like you are the “BROKEN RECORD”
Feel better now snookums?
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You could flip sides and play some other broken records.
For instance:
1. Black slavery, whites enslaving blacks, was worse that any other form of slavery, no-one can pretend otherwise and to do so is a racist argument. Any slavery that existed in Africa before the arrival of the Europeans was nowhere near as widespread, vicious or dehumanising.
2. All black problems are a direct result and the legacy of blacks being enslaved and having had their culture systematically destroyed.
3. White people are 95% racist and almost all consciously or unconsciously contributing to white supremacy. All white people are logically suspected racists/white supremacists until they prove otherwise
4. The only form of racism is white supremacy. No other form of prejudice counts. Black people cannot be racist, they can only be prejudiced because they do not have the power to be racist.
5. Whites are devils and uniquely evil due to breeding with Neanderthals, Semites, having rhesus monkey DNA or having a lack of melanin.
6. Whites secretly envy and/or fear blacks and wish to keep down ‘hue-mans’ who greatly outnumber them. Racism/white supremacy is the method of population control and/or genocide of all blacks and non-whites who make up the majority of the world’s population.
7. All forms of black failure and poor leadership are directly due to slavery, Jim Crow and current racism/white supremacy. Blacks cannot be expected to succeed without a level playing field.
8. Any failure of black culture/society, of poor education levels, over reliance on welfare, black on black violence, having children out of wedlock (or committed stable relationships) is a direct result of white racism and/or the legacy of slavery and Jim Crow. It is unhelpful, unfair and misleading to lay it at the doors of individual black people or black culture as it reflects the pathology of a vicious white elite who use any means necessary to divide and disempower blacks/non whites.
9. Any black writer or thinker like Thomas Sowell or John McWhorter who offers an alternative model of black failure or different models of improving things is a Sambo/Uncle Tom or ‘rented black’, and their views, even if sincere, are likely to be seized upon by the racist media and used as a justification for racism/white supremacy. Conservative or libertarian blacks are generally white identified. The majority of blacks are left leaning for a reason.
10. Any attempt by blacks to pull themselves up ‘by the bootstraps’ will inevitably fail because blacks suffer and have always suffered from worse and more systematic racism than any other group, such as Jews, Asians, Slavs, Irish etc., who at least have their cultures to rely on, unbroken by the deliberate eradication of black African culture by whites during slavery. The dice is uniquely loaded against blacks and blacks will never succeed on masse unless racism/white supremacy is overthrown.
11. Any person who attempts to argue from any position which doesn’t acknowledge that white racism is the overwhelming reason for any ills which befall black people is guilty of using a broken record argument and theirs is in essence a racist argument, whether it comes from a black or white mouth.
12. Class is irrelevant when talking about black people. A middle class black person still suffers from institutional racism which no white person ever does and a rich black person is really more vulnerable than a poor white one; he or she is in danger from racist police forces, stop and frisk, a racist court system, a glass ceiling, racist financial institutions etc.
14. Any other form of discrimination cannot be compared to racism/white supremacy. Homophobia does not mean that gay is the new black and gays have not suffered 400 years of chattel slavery or Jim Crow so their ‘lifestyle choice’ cannot be compared to racism. To do so is ignorant and an insult to black people.
15. Race did not exist until the enslavement of black Africans. There are no races in science and all racial theories and attempts to divide humans/’hue-mans’ on racial lines are racist/white supremacist pseudo science used to justify and propagate racism/white supremacy. Eurocentric is the default setting for all Western (white supremacist) science, history, political, social and economic thought and theories.
16. Whites who attempt to reverse arguments on racism/white supremacy or talk about black racism or black ‘broken record arguments’ are ignoring/avoiding their racist ideologies or dismissing/ignoring their white privilege. Any black person doing so is white identified or a self hating black who has internalised white racism and/or has sold out as a rented black.
17. No white person can ever truly understand what it is to be subject to racism/white supremacy and their views are not of equal weight in discussing racism with a black/non-white person who has suffered racism or the system of white supremacy directly.
18. White people can never really by an ally until the racism/white supremacy is replaced by a system of justice because they benefit from racism/white supremacy and will always be until it is overthrown. If they wish to be a true ally they must renounce their white privilege entirely and live and die like a black/non white person.
19. The success of individual blacks, such as Obama or Oprah, does not prove that racism is dead or has been lessened in any way. All that has happened is that racism/white supremacy has become more sophisticated and token blacks are allowed to succeed to give a friendly black face to racism/white supremacy and the illusion of equality of opportunity. The control of resources and institutions remains firmly in the hands of a group of white people/corporations which maintain and promote the system of racism/white supremacy as ruthlessly as they have always done.
20. The failure of individual whites is not the same of the systematic discrimination of blacks and non whites in the system of racism/white supremacy. The former is an individual tragedy the latter is a system of oppression.
21. Whites having black friends, lovers and spouses doesn’t mean they aren’t still racist or maintaining the system of white supremacy. White slave owners had sex with their black slaves but did not afford them equal rights or even decent treatment. Any relations between black and white people in a system of racism/white supremacy is a form of sexual abuse equivalent to the rape of blacks during slavery. For whites to be taken seriously in their wish to be seen as not racist they must not have sex with black/non white people.
22. Black/non white people who get involved in sexual relationships with white people are damaging their race, financially, politically, materially, spiritually etc. Miscegenation and sexual integration are tools of racism/white supremacy to keep black people divided and confused. Black love is a revolutionary act.
It is relatively easy to list arguments that you disagree with outright, or think flawed or simply find tiresome and boring because people repeat them ad nauseam. You can then place those arguments in a ‘bad argument’ ghetto for those who refuse to give up these redundant ideas and ideologies and still want to play in the racism/anti-racism game.
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@ Ally
Nothing counts as a Broken Record argument unless I wrote a post on it giving my reasons why I think it is wrong. If you disagree, you are free to argue it there. Most people who bring these arguments up on other threads are trying to derail those threads. And even if they were not, it does not make sense to argue the same thing in 20 different places on the blog. Better to have all the arguments, pro and con, in one place. Readers can then more easily make their own judgement.
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Thank you for your response.
I was a little puzzled as to what constitutes a ‘broken record’ as your list appears to encompass a good number of arguments, good or bad, used to counter claims that white racism is as vicious and pervasive as people, dare I say such people as yourself, believe or appear to believe it is.
So what you are concerned with is not the nature of the arguments, whether they are good or bad, racist or not, but their relevance to a given topic?
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I have a blood stained artifact of cleopatra
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It appears as if your “broken record arguments” is a list of the arguments, many backed by facts, that you cannot argue against. How about your whole blog is a broken record. The same thing over and over again. That blacks are being held back by whites. Blacks are held back by blacks. Look at Africa after the Europeans stepped out. Half the continent starving because of warlords. If it wasn’t for the European colonists everyone would still be living in mud huts. We try to give you the opportunity to live in a modern and civilized way and you can’t.
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Can I suggest the “Take Japan, For Instance” theme as a potential future broken record post?
It is used to justify why white racism in the US in normal, justifiable or reasonable.
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@ Jefe
I added it to the list. That would make a good post. Thanks.
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In case you are looking for information about Japan, you might find this book interesting. Written by an ethnic Korean who grew up in Japan, he is a sociology professor at UC Berkeley. He shatters the notion that Japan is a homogeneous or monoethnic society.
“Multiethnic Japan” by John Lie. Harvard University Press
(http://books.google.com.hk/books/about/Multiethnic_Japan.html?id=3aGeH0keCGUC)
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[…] Broken Records. […]
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Hi Abagond, I am subscribed to your blog so that I always know when you post. You are like the Wikipedia/Encyclopedia of race in America. I wrote a book called The Wheat Money (www.thewheatmoney.com) — it’s the story of how, over the last 150 years, whites have been lifted up and blacks have been oppressed and terrorized. In my “About the Author” section I cite your blog as one of the five most important sources of information on race in America today.Last week I was a guest on a radio show called “Context of White Supremacy” with host Gus T. Renegad. He read my “About the Author” on the air,including my reverence for your work. I am wondering if you would be willing to do a review of my book. If so, please contact me on Facebook (Kristl Smith Tyler) and tell me where to send a copy of the book.
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@ kristlsmithtyler
Thank you, but I do not give out my street address.
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what about an email? I could send you a pdf version.
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abagond at gmail
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I sent you a link to a downloadable pdf. Please let me know if you have any trouble with it.
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@ kristlsmithtyler
I got the PDF. Wow, it’s huge. I am going to try to get it onto my Kindle.
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I could paypal the kindle price to you so you can purchase through Kindle without having to come out of pocket for it..
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I had to come back here for a refresher on Broken Record Arguments since I’ve been reading and hearing so many of them since the Ferguson non-indictment. The black-on-black crime argument has been getting a lot of airplay this week, as has the black pathology argument such as this one from a BLACK pastor: http://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/thoughts-on-ferguson.
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You people are fucked up! I have traced my family tree. As far as I know none of my family have ever owned slaves! I do not own any slaves & do not wish to. I would like all US citizens to help me pay taxes!!!!!!!!!!!!! Slavery does not exist today!!!!!!!!!!!! Please get over this shit & move on with your lives! You blacks have more opportunities than us whities do any day of the week. My black neighbors make nore than my wife & I do. Shut the fuck up & be an American!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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@ Lord of Mirkwood
It is not to mock the Irish who actually suffered, but their comfortable and complacent Irish American descendants who use their suffering to – remain complacent.
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@ Lord of Mirkwood
My guess is blacks most likely view the Irish as being complacent, in the lowly sense – in that they should still be yammering on and on about their {sigh} plight {sigh = back of hand firmly pressed against one’s forehead, eyes rolling upward, while breathing in and out heavily with a long, winded, exhaled sigh}.
For to act as the Irish have, is a betterment for their ancestry, their heritage, their foundation; proving to themselves that they are strong, virtuous, and able to overcome great obstacles – thereby EARNING praise, and admiration – further justifying their heart felt feelings of self righteousness (although would never portray themselves in that manner), and contributing enormously to all of American societies, and the building of this (once) great nation.
Whereas the black demographic shows great disdain for this self-betterment, and view their lack of continual bereavement to be weak and demeaning.
Blacks learning a thing or two from others’ struggles and hardships, and to come to a point of letting-go of forever-self-oppressing …eh, not so much.
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@ GrimmTale
1. Why do you give the Irish credit but not Blacks? If you counted up the man-hours worked, I am pretty sure Blacks would beat them by a huge margin.
2. When was America great?
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@ Abagond
Please consider a series of posts on African-Canadian history. The little I’ve read of Afro-Canadian history and current events has been fascinating. Plus the level of White racist denial in Canada puts similar attitudes in the States to shame.
Some of us talk of the Black Diaspora without a clear understanding of the peoples of the Diaspora and their specific histories. I would love to learn more and discuss more with actual people of the Diaspora.
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@ Afrofem
Here is what I have so far:
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2014/02/27/black-canada-a-brief-history/
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@Abagond
Thanks. I saw and enjoyed your overview of Black Canada some months ago.
I was thinking of specific topics both historical and current in Canada. I have included some links to stories I’ve come across:
Historical:
http://www.learnquebec.ca/en/content/curriculum/social_sciences/features/missingpages/title.htm
http://www.blackagendareport.com/?q=print/content/mystery-salt-spring-island-who-killed-canada’s-black-landowners
http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/search/?keyword=africville
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/racisms-long-history-in-quiet-east-coast-towns/article1241300/
Current:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/black-lives-matter-demands-toronto-police-apologize-for-andrew-loku-s-death-1.3149925
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/andrew-loku-siu-1.3498266
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/afrofest-outrage-1.3494851
http://www.blackagendareport.com/category/life-america/toronto
http://www.blackagendareport.com/print/systemic_racism_canada_un_report
The actions of Euro-Canadians are familiar and depressing. What struck me was the level of denial. They talk like Americans are crazy klan types and they are ever so civilized. The truth is they are much the same as their Yankee cousins——-just more “polite” when they abuse their Black citizens.
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One more thought, Black History Month in Canada is in February.
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I just had the most homemade leftover, homemade Thai green curry and rice. Jealous?
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Here’s one you should add to the broken record list. “If you’re foolish enough to continually pursue adversity, you must have one hell of an appetite for it”…
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[…] Broken Records.from Abagond blog […]
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