The black-on-black crime argument says that blacks in America have no right to complain about white-on-black crime till they do something about black-on-black crime. It is a racist deflection.
Bill O’Reilly, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Chris Wallace and others on the right used the argument in the days after the George Zimmerman verdict. Whitewashed people bring it up whenever crime and race are at issue.
What is wrong with this argument:
- It is a deflection. The people who make it do not truly care about black-on-black crime.
- It creates a false choice: Most who are truly concerned with black-on-black crime were upset about the Zimmerman case too.
It allows the white press to determine reality, which makes it seem like Zimmerman is an exception while no one is doing anything about black-on-black crime. As it turns out, on average there is a Zimmerman-style shooting (armed security person or vigilante killing an unarmed black person) once every 28 hours. Trayvon Martin is just what made the papers. His case is hardly the worst nor the only one to get protests. Likewise, there is plenty being done about black-on-black crime, like by the Nation of Islam, but the white press is not particularly interested in reporting that either. Even worse, the white press turns a blind eye to the bad policing that leads to a high black crime rate. Yet, somehow, it always seems to find time to show black male suspects on the 11 o’clock news.- Crime is mostly intra-racial. That means there will always be way more black-on-black crime than white-on-black crime. While it is true that 94% of black murders are black-on-black, it is just as true that 86% of white murders are white-on-white. In fact, most crime in America is white-on-white – yet for every web page that mentions “white-on-white crime”, there are 25 that mention “black-on-black crime”.
It makes the worth of black life conditional. Conditional on good behaviour, like low crime rates. Once blacks get black-on-black crime under control, then they can act as if their lives matter, then they can act as if they should have justice, then they can act as if they are human beings with human rights. Meanwhile the worth of white life is taken seriously, as absolute, as not being conditional. Compare Nicole Simpson to Trayvon Martin:
- No one belittled the killing of Nicole Simpson by quoting white crime statistics, saying “white people kill each other all the time, what’s the big deal?”
- No one deflected by talking about white parenting or violence in white films.
- No one made Nicole Simpson posters for target practice.
- No one pretended to be a dead Nicole Simpson for laughs.
- No one questioned Nicole Simpson’s character – or her choice in clothing.
In the case of Trayvon Martin, the argument misses the point that the crying injustice was not that he was killed by someone not black, but that the police, and now the courts, let his killer get away with it, due in part to the racism of a white justice system.
See also:
- selective outrage
- reading while white: crime statistics
- The black brute stereotype
- Tragedy of 9/11
- What if blacks talked about black-on-white murder the way whites talk about slavery or Trayvon?
- George Zimmerman is found not guilty
- Kenneth Chamberlain – a worse injustice than Trayvon Martin
- also got protests:
Abagond 
This…this is some excellent work. Gods bless you, Abagond.
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More stats then: unfortunately people who are lower down society’s rungs (lower in society, what a bad cliche sorry, but you’ll understand what I mean) are more exposed to crime than others, there are more poor people who kill than rich people (I am not judging them here, because their crimes are often a reflection of their tough lives). It is true of whites, as it is true of non-whites. If there is more black on black crime than white on white, well, it is a reflection of the fact that non-whites do not have the same chances in society.
Also: we tend to live surrounded by people who are like us. So a lot of non-whites live with non-whites like themselves. Well, in order to kill someone, you still need to come pretty close to them. Remember that most people are killed by someone they know. Being killed by someone you do not know is a statistical rarity.
So the argument of black on black crime is being misused to give non-whites bad press etc etc, but we need to expose its true meaning, in conjunction with the argument of poor person on poor person crime…to expose how non-whites in particular, but poor people in general, are denied chances and education.
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Hey Ankh! Ditto! and Ditto!
@Abagond…I just have to say again — you say wa-a-a-ay more in 500 words than anybody I’ve ever read. Thank you for this.
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Revolution! Get rid of all the white men (keep the white women, we like them)! We can make this a better country. Just think of it… 8% of the murders of our people won’t be at the hands of the white man. I sure we can pick up the slack. But….. Who will we blame for all our problems? I don’t know if I want to take responsibility for all my actions… I kinda like blaming the white man.
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Brilliant. Just brilliant.
I’ve had countless people try to throw the black-on-black crime argument in my face when talking about white-on-black crime. I tried to articulate why this argument is nothing more than blatant deflection of the subject at hand, but this does it far better than I possibly could have.
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Deflection is the perfect word to describe exactly what this type of argument is.
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Cause someone plz tell me the statistics for white-on-white crime?
But it’s true ppl show more outrage when a wm kills a BP then when BP do it!
I’m from Canada but 99% of the black ppl I saw when I used to watch TV are black Americans, and so many of these movies glorified gangsters…the same gangsters that are terrorizing black neighbourhoods, but no ones going to say anything about that? Cuz they don’t want to be a snitch or what? Worry about the problems inside of the community before you can fix the ones outside…you can’t be unite if inside the community you’re divided. And I hear a lot about black on black crime from blacks who were commenting on the Zimmerman case, so it’s not that they don’t care about blacks…
Both is wrong, but you can’t only be outraged when it’s a white person, if u really care for BP…
WE ALL KNOW THE CASE WAS BOGUS IF WE WATCHED CNN, I THOUGHT THEY WERE JUST JOKING OR TRYING TO GIVE A ZIMMERMAN A FEAR CHANCE CUZ IT SEEMED LIKE THEY WERE ALL ON HIS SIDE EXCEPT FOR ONE BW WHO KEPT GETTING CAUGHT OFF?! On TOP OF THAT WHY DO THEY MAKE ANDERSON COOPER THE NEW HOST FOR ALL THINGS RACIAL, FIRST IT WAS THE BLACK DOLL, WHITE DOLL TEST NOW THIS!? THIS GUY IS RACIST, HE THINKS BLACK PPL IMAGINE RACISM…WTF?! NOT ALL OF US HAVE THE CHOICE OF PRETENDING THEY LIVE IN A COLORBLIND WORLD AND I LEARNT THAT THE HARD WAY…NOW IT ALL MADE SENSE WHY PPL ACTED THE WAY THEY DID TOWARDS AND I JUST THOUGHT SOMETHING WAS WRONG WITH ME?!
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@Torontogirl
I agree. White on White crime is just as high as Black on Black crime. Statistics show that most people kill others of their own race or ethnic group.
@Hotch63
Contrary to your belief, White women aren’t our friends. They are just as bad and guilty as their male counterparts.
Honestly, we need to fix Black on Black crime but I never see people talk about it though. What can we, as a people, do to lower the rates of Black on Black crime?
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So…what ARE you doing about the black-on-black murder rate, Mr. Abagond? Because whatever is is…try something else.
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@ futurodellanazione
“what ARE you doing about the black-on-black murder rate, Mr. Abagond?”—I would like to think that before you ask anyone that question you should first ask what you are doing about it.
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@ Kiwi
I agree. It would always be something else. I can’t even sit and say that will change. In the past then blacks were more “obedient” they will became the target of their hatred.
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Kiwi is right. Even if blacks brought their crime rate down to a level well below whites, it is not like whites would give any more hoot about their lives.
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@ Jefe
This subject came up on a facebook discussion and I ended by simply saying…the only way to fix black on black crime is to not be black. To me black on black crime could be at a minimum and it will still be used as a topic of deflection and justification. If the crime rate is low then it will be “It is only that way because you guys have less population blah blah blah”
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This is not about what WP THINK ANYMORE about our lives, it’s about what do we think about our lives?! We should be concerned about gangs and the number of deaths in Chicago…why? Not to make WP value us more, who cares anymore? It’s because WE value ourselves, in every race most of the kills are done by someone of the same race…
So we should want to lower the crime rates for ourselves!
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@ Mrs.Ocean-Graham (TorontoGirl)
And I am going to ask you what I ask another. What are you doing on your part about this? It is nice to talk about it but I grew up on the idea that talk is cheap. My husband more so than I has been mentoring young men. Local churches have neighborhood awareness and prayer in our areas that I do attend. So the idea that nothing is being done is a myth. The idea that people are not supporting it…now that is a fact.
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I don’t live in the US, I’m just concerned person cuz whatever happens in the US reflects on to me…all the stereotypes etc.
even though I’m a Nigerian-Canadian…most of the black ppl on TV in Canada are Canadian…ppl ask me questions that only an african American can understand and assume so much about me because of the widespread of American television INTERNATIONALLY. like soul food and rap music etc. and bw stereotypes and black violence is getting worse here I heard smh.,,Idk what can I do? What are you doing? How about reporting gangsters and criminals to police? Idk
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I meant american not Canadian
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[…] Image source and article: https://abagond.wordpress.com/2013/07/29/the-black-on-black-crime-argument/ […]
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I am sick of White people acting like they care about us or Black on Black crime. They don’t care about us. As usual, they exploit our problems to the benefit of them and uplifting the White race in the media as always. We, as a community, need to care about ourselves and love us. We don’t need their approval to survive in this country! I always cringe hearing some White person particularly a White Republican talk about Black ”issues” like they are some ambassador for Blacks and their plight in AmeriKKKlan. It is obvious they don’t care about us. We need to stay clear of them.
Sharina, I maybe young but I would love to help the issue of Black on Black crime go down. Yes, you are right that talk is cheap but I don’t know exactly what should be done to stop the issue. As a teen, I do believe that more people should be talking about Black on Black crime and supporting people and organizations that are for solving the issue of Black on Black crime. But at my age, I don’t know what I should exactly do to stop the issue.
I wonder why we get together when a non Black person shoots and kills a Black person yet I hear nothing of Blacks getting together when a Black person shoots and kills a Black person?
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I agree, Adeen. There needs to be more support for black on black crimes, not just prayers…
James 2:18 ESV
But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
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@ Mrs.Ocean-Graham (TorontoGirl)
It does not matter where you live and you should not be concerned simply because of how it reflects on you. As you have stated…the concern is not for what white people think but rather for ourselves and as a black person do you truly think white American care that you live here or you are from there…heck no. You still black to them.
“What are you doing?”–I told you what I was doing so I will take this as one of those deflection questions. Also just as much as you can get on a blog and suggest you can get out and suggest and bring about awareness to fellow students and individuals you meet. Share knowledge, attend awareness meetings etc…heck get the word out about them.
My thing with you is …don’t start pulling out lectures to others about doing something you have not cared to take the time out to do yourself. I hear so many people talking about it, but I need people to take action and stop with the lip service.
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@ Adeen
At your age I think the best you can do is help your peers. Peers that put off red flags that they may be leaning towards getting in gangs etc. I noticed in cases of youth that join gangs it is because they want a sense of family. Usually from a single parent home where mother works and is not around to give them time and attention, so they turn to that lifestyle to get it. Reach out to people. See a kid struggling at school reach out to him and provide help. Be support in keeping on the right path.
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Prime example for me.
I know a woman who is on a completely messed up path and has 3 boys. For the longest I ignored her bad choices and just would provide assistance in fixing it. Always fixing it and she was always making them. I let this slide until finally I said to her….”you have got to get your act together.” “You are 32 year old and have nothing to show for it.” ” You keep making piss poor choices and your sons are suffering for it.” “You need to do better so they will know better.” Waiting to see results.
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So long as Fox news conservatives use phrases like Black-on-Black crime, or Black-on-White crime instead of American-on-American crime and a problem that all of us are obliged to solving, this country will never be post racial. Their proclamations of colorblindness should fall on deaf ears
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Here’s the kicker I just usually say fine a good but when there is a huge poisoning of water, or we are afraid to eat because certain animals have somehow got this sickness, high cancer rates because people lived around these power plants, or older people killing themselves because their 401k was embezzled who are those companies owned by. Who holds responsibility for giving kids cancer, making food unreliable, poisoning the water supply (which only 1% is drinkable in the world), embezzling hope. It must be that black on black violence right. Cuz ya know.
Black on Black violence always comes up, once when I was in Maine I saw a guy try to run over another guy with his car. All of sudden my mind went was that the rare bird of White on White violence. Not to worry folks this whole incident was started over a woman and the guy didn’t die but had a concussion. Even if the guy had die it would not have made the headlines of with White on White violence is on the raise. I think we should just start pointing out white on white violence.
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“No one belittled the killing of Nicole Simpson by quoting white crime statistics, saying “white people kill each other all the time, what’s the big deal?”
No one deflected by talking about white parenting or violence in white films.
No one made Nicole Simpson posters for target practice.
No one pretended to be a dead Nicole Simpson for laughs.
No one questioned Nicole Simpson’s character – or her choice in clothing.”
Oh yeah and u forgot nobody made a game called angry Nicole.
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Even if black on black crime was lower ppl would find something else like black prison population to justify this stuff. its like wack a mole, get one done another pops up and they will use it against us. matter of fact they were talking about children born out of wedlock when discussing this case, I was thinking wtf does this have to do with trayvon being killed he had both of his parents and a step mother. smh
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I find it funny that the same ppl that were telling blacks to get over cases like this and that ppl are race baiting are the same ones who are agreeing about the black on black crime argument. its like what happened to the whole thing about oh they are race baiting to keep us divided and are screwing us both over. *crickets* proves my point that those ppl that keep going on about black ppl should help them and unite with them are the same ppl who are cosigning with the ppl they said were race baiters and only talk all that united stuff when they feel their race is being exposed and want to act like friends. Oh I forgot only when al Sharpton and them are talking about the Oscar grants, trayvons, reki boyds they are race baiters.but when those same ppl talk about black on black crime its oh they are right they are no longer race baiters for the time being.
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White people sure like to run ppl over with their car I had two try to run my over, one was a very old man that didn’t even have teeth but was yelling at me…I was walking across the street by my school through the parking lot to get to my class in the next building, it happened so fast it was insane…in less than a second he backed his car out and almost hit me, when I’d been walking before he even backed out…like my hand was right on the front of the car…crazy white ppl! Then there are the white men that are having a bad day then decide to go serial killing, that’s why I was always scared of them as a child…cuz they’d always give me evil looks, and I know since I’m a minority they like to blame all their problems on us smh.
White on white crime is worse in my opinion and does more damage today, and in history! Before the EUROPEANS ventured out they were killing each other (excluding Greece and Italy that were darker skinned and didn’t consider themselves part of the rest of Europe), and it was stated that the Asians saw them as a cold people always at war…
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When people say black on black crime; they are probably specifically referencing the murder rate; about how around 55% of murder victims are black but nationally black people are only around 13% of the population.
Your right; they don’t care about black on black crime, they don’t even care about black on white crime.
And as for black people caring more when white people kill them vs each other, well thats just how it goes, most white people are way more afraid of middle eastern terrorists than they are cops, or honestly all middle easterners by this point but thats not based on potential threat or rationality.
For whatever reason, when something becomes “normal” we tend not to think about it as much, accept it and just go on our lives instead of doing something about it.
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@Kiwi
That last statement you made is exactly what many of those whites who make the “black on black crime” argument think, that black people only care about black murdered men and children if the murderer happens to be non-black.
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“In the case of Trayvon Martin, the argument misses the point that the crying injustice was not that he was killed by someone not black, but that the police, and now the courts, let his killer get away with it, due in part to the racism of a white justice system.”
Bingo.
Also, IMO, most of the black-on-black crime is due to a falsification of consciousness from absorbing a degenerate and violent white supremacist outer culture and the associated way of relating to others. Combine a materialistic and greedy definition of success with limited opportunties (due to racism) and you have an incendiary combination.
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I also would like to point out something that i noticed about how white people, keep using a hoodie as a metaphor to excuse, why black children are gunned down and are racially profiled.
Everyone needs to put this whole nonsense of the hoodie back in perspective, 40 years ago, there wasn’t a “hoodie” to use as an excuse to profile,black youth.
It doesn’t matter, what we wear, they will demonize black men and teenagers if they wore, Tutu’s .
Today its the hoodie and baggy jeans, who knows which clothing accessory they will negatively associate with the black man, next.
They racial profile black men, simply for the color of their skin, they just use baggy jeans and a hoodie to cover up their racist, stereotypes.
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mstoogood4yall
“No one belittled the killing of Nicole Simpson by quoting white crime statistics, saying “white people kill each other all the time, what’s the big deal?”
No one deflected by talking about white parenting or violence in white films.
No one made Nicole Simpson posters for target practice.
No one pretended to be a dead Nicole Simpson for laughs.
No one questioned Nicole Simpson’s character – or her choice in clothing.”
Oh yeah and u forgot nobody made a game called angry Nicole.
– One more thing – no body threatened to riot when her black killer was declared not guilty by a jury loaded with blacks. No blacks were mugged as ‘revenge for Ron and Nicole”.
If you’re going to look at the history – look at the whole story, that’s all I’m saying here.
I don’t think we’re ever going to get it together. You commenters here are some of the most thoughtful, intelligent people I’ve found on the internet, but we are 180 degrees opposed in our beliefs and our perceptions of reality here in America. Perception is reality – I know. You’re experiences and mine are completely different, so you’d expect our perceptions to be different too. I just thought that intelligent people could find common ground – but there may be too much water under the bridge.
I think we’re going to fight, and it won’t be like the 1860’s civil war – this time it will be like Kosovo and Sarajevo, neighbor on neighbor – much more like the Tulsa Wall Street invasion (which I learned about here thank you). I think that hate and resentment built up on both sides will be released and we’ll see recreations of the Rwandan massacres played out around the country. I know there a lot of whites gearing up for exactly that scenario. I believe that black groups are preparing likewise, and the education of students like Adeen continues to increase here resentment of whites. I’m sure she will be manning the barricades in the coming fight. I think this is going to get ugly.
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And Black on Black crime is used as another excuse for Whites in the media to view us as savages. Yes Black on Black crime is an issue in our community but it is NOT an issue that White media should be exploiting for their own benefit to their narcissism and superiority complex.
According to statistics, most people kill people in their own race. Has anyone thought of that? Americans of all colors kill people yet they pick on us.
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” I think this is going to get ugly.”
It is going to get ugly in a very one-sided way. Our long days of mourning have been fulfilled and are never to be repeated.
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@Riverside Rob
Yes I do agree with your response. Your response was very well thought out and intelligent but I live in a mostly White town and I hate it. I know the nature of Whites and it isn’t pretty at all. I experienced racism from White girls my age picking on me at school and online too.
I believe race relations are getting worse every year in this country. What is a young Black teen like me to do? I don’t want to stand back and do nothing but I don’t know what to do these days.
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@ Adeen
i’m good how u doing sistah?
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rofl, idk why some ppl stay thinking it’s going to be a fight/war. i’m a lover not much of a fighter, but anyway, I would exit before it gets that bad. I don’t have time to be fighting some ppl. I don’t remember too much about the simpson stuff except that slow ass car chase lol. and there may not have been riots about the verdict because they save that type of rioting for sports.
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Abagond’s point 5 is the strongest. It, and the closing paragraph, encapsulate the issue and carry more import and impact than the four stat-laden points that precede it.
The mathematical pointing of fingers about which group has the most shameful crime stats has no DIRECT bearing on the very clear issues of injustice and inequality in the justice system.
It shouldn’t matter whether more blacks commit more violent crimes than whites OR VICE VERSA. An accused person should receive equal treatment under the law. That is NOT what happens in the USA, nor in my country.
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Consider a couple of paradoxes. First, the Zimmerman trial could have been decided correctly based strictly on the facts and applicable law, but it could still be a racist verdict if a community feels strongly that it would have been decided differently if the defendant was black and the victim was Hispanic.
Second, according to 2011 FBI stats, out of 2,695 homicides involving blacks, the perpetrators were black in 2,447 cases or more than 90% of the time (and the U.S. population is roughly 13% black). So, although it may be unsafe for a black male to be wandering around a white neighborhood at night, it may be much more unsafe for that same black male to be wandering around a black neighborhood. However, this statistic could be racist if a community feels strongly that it is so.
The life of 1 black killed by a Hispanic guy is actually worth more media coverage than 10,000 blacks killed by blacks because the incident and trial directly reveals instituationlized racism by whites, whereas the 10,000 blacks killed by blacks only indirectly points at institutionalized racism by whites in not providing enough education and job opportunities for black males and in not maintaining adequate police forces to protect these men, and also through making them feel inferior through institutionalized racism.
Numbers don’t lie, but white people have no right to try to mention those numbers if a community feels strongly that to do so would be racist. As an overprivileged majority, whites have no right to bring up statistics that do anything to take the focus off of institutionalized racism (only of whites).
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The stats are misleading to people who swallow stats at face value. They are presented in such a way as to make people think that the issue is black crime vs white crime. It isn’t that simple.
Drugs, gangs, crime flourish when people are under pressure – usually economic pressure. If a group suffers discrimination in employment and discrimination/manipulation/deceit in the “democratic” system that should enable them to change things then that group ends up socially and economically disadvantaged. That group ends up relatively poor.
I haven’t done the research or the sums, but it seems to me that if you pick three similar poor neighbourhoods – one predominantly white, one predominantly black and one predominantly hispanic – then you might well see pretty much equal crime figures. It’s not the ethnicity that causes the problems, it’s desperation. If a society makes it impossible for a racial group to enjoy social and economic equality, then that society has created its own crime problems. Reap what you sow.
Seriously… The colour of a person’s skin makes them predisposed to criminality? That’s not racial profiling; it is straight *racist* profiling. Economics and social conditions cause crime, FFS – not the genes that pigment a person’s skin.
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“It’s not the ethnicity that causes the problems, it’s desperation.”
You are discounting what influence culture can have. I agree that economics obviously has a role though as well.
It could be that black youths are more likely to be poor AND also more likely to be exposed to a culture that makes them more prone to violence (gang culture, etc.). This would get us into a bit of a chicken-egg thing.
I expected the usuals here that can’t think a thing that is ouchie to them would state “well if black young men are more likely to be in a subculture that fosters violence ,then that is due to past oppression and economic hardship”. And that very well be true. However, if the subculture does have that influence, then economic status could change overnight and the subculture would still have its effect. Therefore, it would still be a causative factor.
Personally, I believe that the urban youth culture that many black men are involved in does have the influence of increasing the rate of violence. Black men have crime rates even in crimes not related to escaping poverty (such as stealing property or selling drugs).
Abagond doesn’t like the incredible disparity in the white and black crime rate to be brought up because it is super depressing for him. I understand, but I respect more black people that refuse to make easy excuses for the shortcomings of other black people. When someone has an excuse lined up for them, there is less of an incentive to change.
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Chicken-egg argument perhaps, but one which must be had unless you claim that “blackness” carries an innate tendency toward criminality.
I am not discounting culture/subculture; I am recognising the factors that shape them. Many movements have arisen as a reaction to unfair, unearned privilege and inequality: communist revolution, 1960s anti-materialist hippie culture, UK punk.
There are white gangs as well. Maybe not in rich areas… and there are so many more rich white areas than rich black ones.
Cultures have persistence and inertia once in place. You cannot expect a culture/subculture to react instantly to changes in environment. And, anyway, where the hell is this change in economic status to which you refer? Are you suggesting that black people now have equality of employment and opportunity? That there is no longer widespread discrimination in economics, politics, education, the justice system…?
I agree that one should not make excuses, but excuses and explanations aren’t the same thing. Clean up the contributory sh!t that makes some people’s lives harder than others – THEN it becomes more reasonable to preach individual responsibility.
Yes, indeed, we are each responsible for our own choices and actions. So much easier to keep that in mind when one is an employed, white male like me. What the hell reason do I have to steal, deal or join a gang. I don’t NEED to, FFS. I am a lucky, WHITE, bastard.
You imply that everyone has as easy a life as I do – or at least that if they don’t they should just suck it up. Good luck with that attitude: it’ll change the world for the better, said no poor person, ever.
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In fact, re. personal responsibility…
I may not need to steal, deal or join a gang, but you know what? My job is nothing to be proud of. I work in marketing, selling a pointless product that no one needs to fat bastards with more money than sense or conscience.
Shame on me. That’s the lucky white bastard equivalent of stealing or some other parasitic activity. But I have bills to pay. If I lost my job who can guarantee that I wouldn’t ever become a criminal? Not me. I can’t guarantee that.
I stand by my assertion that a society that forces people into disadvantage reaps what it sows.
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I don’t understand how an article about crime statistics can cause someone to conclude that there is going to be a violent conflict. Sorry but I don’t see a conflict coming.
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I’ve heard a bunch of black, liberal contrarians make this same argument, too. I think it makes them feel smart to try to stand out in the crowd by saying this kind of thing.
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I don’t have excuses I have diagnoses. The pathogen is white people and the cure is to get rid of white people. All of the problems of black people in America and elsewhere have their genesis in evil white people.
Culture. Check. [This is not our original culture but one imposed through slavery and/or colonization/apartheid]
Poverty. Check [Uncompensated work by multiple generations over centuries and employment discrimination after abolition of slavery]
Drugs. Check [CIA hijinks with crack]
Crime. Check [See Poverty and Drugs]
They do all of this then turn around and demean black people for suffering the effects of their evil activity. White people, as a collective, are Satan the Devil. Satan is a word which means OPPOSER and devil is a word which means ACCUSER or SLANDERER. They are both. They oppose then accuse.
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And I tell you what, there are powers beyond white people’s scientistic world of matter. Matter is, in fact, little more than a phantasm. The Universe is mind. And its mind is tired of y’all.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amSpXvyPRrg)
Just the beginning of signs and portents.
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And I tell you what, there are powers beyond white people’s scientistic world of matter. Matter is, in fact, little more than a phantasm. The Universe is mind. And its mind is tired of y’all.
( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amSpXvyPRrg )
The present cycle of evil ends soon.
Aba: please disregard previous message in moderation
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White people are also descendant of humans that migrated out of Africa. And most black Americans are part white. Like it or not, they are also your brethren.
I think the pathogen is whitewashed history and culture. One needs to claim their own history and not let someone else invent it for them. And white people also need to learn a history that has not been whitewashed for them, one that shows both their deeds and misdeeds.
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“the police, and now the courts, let his killer get away with it, due in part to the racism of a white justice system.”
The police and courts “let his killer get away with it” because Trayvon had a gash on his fist, George had a broken nose, concussion and gash on the back of his head from having it slammed against a concrete sidewalk, and witnesses saw Trayvon on top of him with George yelling for help.
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“In the case of Trayvon Martin, the argument misses the point that the crying injustice was not that he was killed by someone not black, but that the police, and now the courts, let his killer get away with it, due in part to the racism of a white justice system.”
AND, the strong probability is that Zimmerman racially PROFILED Trayvon Martin. That TOO is part of the racism in the whole affair. Without that, this whole incident WOULDN’T have happened.
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Riverside_Rob,
“I don’t think we’re ever going to get it together. You commenters here are some of the most thoughtful, intelligent people I’ve found on the internet, but we are 180 degrees opposed in our beliefs and our perceptions of reality here in America. Perception is reality – I know. You’re experiences and mine are completely different, so you’d expect our perceptions to be different too. I just thought that intelligent people could find common ground – but there may be too much water under the bridge.”
This is were empathy and compassion come into play. Our experiences are different but you should be able to imagine yourself in our place, experiencing what we have. Racism keeps you from doing that. It keeps you from seeing our experiences as valid.
This is how white people can say stuff like why don’t black people care about black on black crime. Because they don’t care about black on black crime, they think no one else does. Even when there have been numerous protests and rallies about it.
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@ Rick
You said it perfectly. I hear the culture argument as often as the black on black crime and it comes down to yet another excuse and justification for me. The reason being is because there are gangs and violence in every culture, yet the focus is only on black gangs. These gangs are not stealing, killing, or dealing less than blacks but it is too easy for American culture to pretend they do not exist. Blacks seem to be the escape goats in every wrong that is done, especially when it is collective of American culture.
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@ jefe
No doubt. As they say….the truth will set you free.
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solesearch said:
“This is were empathy and compassion come into play. Our experiences are different but you should be able to imagine yourself in our place, experiencing what we have. Racism keeps you from doing that. It keeps you from seeing our experiences as valid.”
Quoted for obvious truth.
There is common ground, but it requires putting in some effort to find it. Bob is not just going to stumble over it by accident.
The empathy thing is key. The luck that delivered me into a lower middle class white family in a relatively peaceful and safe country could just have easily put me in a black skin and into a family that literally struggles to survive. I am eternally grateful that – by sheer accident of birth, not by merit – I don’t have to suffer what many other people suffer.
That unfair twist of luck obliges me, and other lucky bastards, to do what we can to fight injustice and to promote the equality that is the right of all people. This is no smug, saintly, liberal crusade by grandstanding do-gooders; it isn’t something we DO, it is something that we OWE to the people who weren’t so damned lucky. We don’t have to be like our progenitors who decided the best way to address such inequality is to buy and sell the poor. Until people see that and care about it, the common ground will not be convenient for white people to walk on. Most lucky bastards don’t see why they should get their shoes dusty.
Beyond the race issue, this is true of the wider war between the rich and the poor.
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@ futurodellanazione
Your comment in moderation was deleted for Mock Ebonics and a racial slur.
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The deflection here is not mentioning the astronomically high murder rate amongst black males; the deflection is in dismissing it. People (meaning, black folk) keep playing pretend about why they are stereotyped. They are stereotyped because of the ASTRONOMICALLY disproportionate amount of violent crime they commit. Black males are 6% of the population, yet… they commit more than 40% of the murders!
Black males commit crime at such rates largely because of the prevailing values of black “culture.” And in black culture, people tend to trend down—meaning the lowest and most despicable elements of black culture are seen as the “bona fide black experience.” Black kids in the even well-to-do suburbs imitate the lowlifes in the slum. The lowlifes in the slum are not trying to imitate the black elite who attending Harvard and Princeton.
The culture is in a general degenerate state and is largely incapable of competing in a global economy—or even increasingly racially diverse society. And given the trends (such as, outrageous bastardy rates, normalization of deviant behavior, the music, etc.) there is no indication that things will get better. Instead, there will be an increasingly marginalized (and dysfunctional) segment of society that will be rounded up for the privatized prison system. Intelligent black folk will make an exodus from “black ‘culture'” and develop their own identity distinct from this corporate engineered pathological culture for the dummies and degenerates.
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@ futurodellanazione
You seem to be missing the point of the post. You are using the racist deflection the post is about to deflect the thread about that deflection.
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@ Sharina,
It is not merely that other cultures have lowlifes amongst them. I don’t think anyone denies that. The issue is that black “culture” (meaning this corporate engineered black culture—that is widely embraced by blacks) is itself a culture that embraces degenerate “values.” And things have gotten to the point that to criticize the moral degeneracy of black culture is to be seen as “racist” or “self-hatred” b/c such behavior is now seen as something part and parcel with being “black.” Criticizing a culture that has vile “values” does not mean one hates a person because of their hair texture, the breadth of their nose, or their complexion. Race is not something voluntary–whereas, code of behavior and values are. Hating a code of behavior/values is not the same as hating physical characteristics.
If one doubts the disparity between blacks and Asians or whites, it’s enough to consider that black males (6% of the population) commit MORE THAN 40% of the murders, and that 70% of black children are illegitimate. The problem lies clearly in what has become the CULTURE of black folks. And given that the current values are based on entitlement, laziness, blaming others, ignorance, immediate gratification, etc., it is not possible to fix such a culture. It can only be “fixed” when people abandon that culture… and hence, said culture will no longer exist.
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@Angles,
How is what Zimmerman did racial profiling? It’s common sense and natural to “profile” thugs (as was T-Von). If you live in a nicer neighborhood and you see a goon that you haven’t seen before, you are going to keep an eye on the guy while he goes by. You are going to wonder what he’s doing in the neighborhood. Only the disease of liberalism would make a person feel guilty for doing so.
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@ Da Jokah
This is what i am trying to understand. Wasn’t Zim ATTACKED by T-Von? If T-Von was being followed or even verbally harassed, why didn’t he just go home? It doesn’t make sense for Zim to allow himself to get into an actual fist fight with the guy (even IF he initiated the fight—although there isn’t evidence for it), and allow himself to be taken to the ground and THEN in the scuffle try to reach for his firearm (which very well could have ended up in the hands of T-Von). It would be one thing if Zim just walked up to No Limit N-Word (as was his MySpace handle), and offed him, but there seems to be no evidence for this. What you have (or had) was a thug-wannabe thug with typical low-level conflict resolution skills who decided to attack someone for perhaps “dissin”’ him, and his ending, like the endings of many thugs wasn’t very good.
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At facetoface, you have obviously never been followed. God bless your naïve little heart and head.
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facetofloor
Hi, yes, crime is not a culture. It is a symptom of a failing society. If society has not fulfilled it’s part of social contract, the individual has little reason to behave civilly, morally, or what have you. Look at any unstable, failed, or failing state and you’ll see more or less the same thing taken to the extreme: Greece, Egypt, Somalia, etc.
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Adeen, yes most murder is intraracial but no group approaches the level intraracial murder that blacks do. You don’t hear of Koreans complaining about the astronomical level of murder occurring amongst their female teens (b/c it RARELY happens). However, talking about black on black murder is common because it occurs very often.
What you have is a two-fold problem: the standard institutional anti-black racism AND the stupid and impulsive black culture that keeps blacks falling into the same traps. If you have a culture that produces people of deficient intelligence and self-control, then it is going to be expected that other groups will come along and take advantage of them. That’s just human nature. The question is: what can black folks/their culture do to improve their level of intelligence and discipline so they are not so easily exploited.
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King, No Limit was near his house. Some guy is following him. Probably not a good idea to attack such a person. A better idea would be to go home.
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Facetofloor, some guy in a car follows you. You don’t know if you are being lead but you know you can’t outrun a car. This guy gets out, why is he getting out is he sure that you are caught. Cause the only people I know who get out of cars are ones who have friends to trap and beat you. This coming from someone who has had this happen a few times. Not once but quite a few times. I am not bringing trouble to my house, I don’t want to let some strange person know where I live. You still sound like you have never been followed.
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@ D,
In the case with “hip hop” it is said to be a “culture” and it glorifies crime and immorality in general, so in this case crime and culture are pretty much synonymous. Morality and civility don’t change in spite of one’s circumstances—that is why they are called “values,” and this is how character is developed. They are not things done or embraced simply when it is convenient.
Granted the state should help people cultivate good values, but that doesn’t remove the onus from the individual to live a morally decent life. Furthermore, you cannot have a decent state unless the people (in general) are committed to living moral lives. When the morality of the people deteriorates, so does the society at large.
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This YouTube video is a perfect example of a white person, pretending to care about crime in the black community.
I notice, this white man and other whites are always suggesting, that black people can’t be outraged about “crime in the black community” ( NOT BACK ON BLACK CRIME ) and also be equally outraged about about a unarmed black seventeen year old child, racially profiled in his father’s neighborhood, then gunned down by a racist.
I guess white people are the only people in America, that can be outraged about more than one tragedy, within their own racial group.
White people were outraged about the sandy hook shooting of white men and children and also equally outraged about the Aurora theater shooting of white people by white psychopath, James Eagan Holmes.
Bob is a ignorant, narcissistic, arrogant prick. He gets embarrassed by Mo ivory, then starts to get defensive by accusing her of trying to get him in a, “gotcha moment” and throws a tantrum like a child by yelling at a black woman.
This is a typical response by whites, when they get owned by someone black and have no rebuttal, they get defensive and start the Ad hominem, attacks.
Of coarse they put a sellout black conservative, to challenge Mo ivory.
I like also find it ridiculous, that bob keeps saying, “we” the media keeps talking about the treyvon murder.
The media is owned by whites, so blame the white media, not black people that choose to speak on an injustice, when they see it all over the networks.
We have every right to talk about, whatever happens to be the hot topic of the decade, not just white people and if it happens to be from someone in our community, then so be it. The only reason why people
Notice, white people always accuse, black people of, “dividing” as if we aren’t a divided society already via Race,Class,race and demographics? To white people, race is never present( white privilege at work, so they never have to think about race ), its only black people that, “bring race into everything”( it would make sense that blacks, would speak out against injustice and racism, being we as blacks and other minorities are the victims of racism ) or the media ( which is owned and operated by whites ), so whites are the real race baiters, being they own and run the media!
The irony of this is that, its the media that sticks a mic in black people’s face, every time there is a white on black crime, baiting for a sound bite that has to do with anything, racial.
abagond:
“In the case of Trayvon Martin, the argument misses the point that the crying injustice was not that he was killed by someone not black, but that the police, and now the courts, let his killer get away with it, due in part to the racism of a white justice system.”
I don’t disagree but i would tweak that paragraph to read:
The argument misses the point that the crying injustice was not that he was killed by someone not black, but that the police wasn’t going to arrest and charge George Zimmerman, because they believed his story of self defense without no investigation, whatsoever.
This is the reason why black people, across the country have been protesting and had it not been for this, Zimmerman would have not even been brought to trial. So instead of seeing this for what it really was, bob and whites like him, skew and misinterpret on purpose, black people’s motives for protesting.
Watch the short clip of this exchange between Mo Ivory and Bob Thomson:
(http://youtu.be/rz7ZwuNhJPA)
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@King,
So the solution is for one to get away from said person, circle around and attack him?!?
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Sondis,
Didn’t No Limit attack Zim? Wasn’t Zim the one with his head busted up and No Limit the one with the busted up knuckles?
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@facetofloor
“In the case with “hip hop” it is said to be a “culture” and it glorifies crime and immorality in general, so in this case crime and culture are pretty much synonymous.”
Art imitates Life. Besides it only became glorified when it became marketed towards the suburbanites, White and Black, who go through a phase before becoming adults (been there, done that). Originally, it portrayed the Life of the Black poor as being without love, hope, or security in the future and not glorious in the least.
“Morality and civility don’t change in spite of one’s circumstances—that is why they are called “values,” and this is how character is developed. They are not things done or embraced simply when it is convenient.”
Then why is felony and poverty so consistently correlated across the globe? Frankly, your assessment of how morality, civility, and “Values” work stand in stark contrast with reality.
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Typical response from a white person, ignore what was said in my comments and continue to argue, black pathologies. This shows that this white person, has no rebuttal and only wants to make their point and argue back and forth.
I’ll ignore facetofloor, like my comments were ignored by him/her. Not to mention, i am not here to go back and forth with white racist, such as facetofloor.
I am here to talk to my black and brown brothas and sistas….
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@facetofloor
“Didn’t No Limit attack Zim? Wasn’t Zim the one with his head busted up and No Limit the one with the busted up knuckles?”
When defending yourself, you must strike first. Allowing your opponent to get the first move gives them more control over the fight and a higher probability of winning with you either injured or dead (even in chess, the chance of victory is higher for the player that moves first). If Trayvon feared for his life, his only mistake was not neutralizing Zimmerman faster.
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@ facetofloor
In essence what you described was the attributes of all gangs and violent culture regardless of race. So why once again is is said to be a black culture thing? The fact still remains that American are deflecting from its real issues by trying to place it on one race. You can’t fix a American cultural problem by blaming it on one race while bypassing the wrongs of another. It perpetuates the racial bias by saying. ..it is acceptable for one race to do it but shame on the other that does it. If a problem is to be fixed then fix the darn problem all around not based on race.
Crime stats…typical…Please see ricks reponse as it explains it perfectly.
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@facetofloor
I have travelled to a lot of places, lived in several countries. This is what I have observed: countries where a lot of people have no “morality” or values (I.e there is lots of crime) are usually countries where the governments are corrupt, corruption trickles down society, strivers do not get what they deserve, poverty is rampant, there is no healthcare and the innocents are accused. There is little crime etc in countries where the government leads by example. The problem with USA voters is that they equate good family values with good statesman/woman values. You will find mafia bosses have excellent family values, so electing a good family man/woman is not a guarantee. You need to find out how they behaved as employees, as bosses: what kind of value were they displaying with customers and employees, this is a test of a statesman/woman because the governement is not our parent, no matter how we may feel about it, it is our boss and our employee. A lot of people I have come across in these badly governed countries found it very hard to respect other people’s lives and opinions, understandably: neither their lives nor their opinions counted much.
So do not be too quick to blame the individuals for criminal/immoral behaviours: these behaviours are the product of three factors: bad social examples all the way to the top, the urge to survive against the odds and lastly individual decisions with individual responsibility. I would steal to feed my daughter. I would probably kill to defend her.
Yet I agree with you that values are important: as we cannot reach the top, we should do what we can to plant the seeds of value in people around us, so that these values can be expressed when possible…
@ King of trouble: I have been followed as you described. Never mind my colour…it was because I was a woman. So as a black woman, you get it twice on grounds of colour and feminity.
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Sharina:
Hey sista, gemme hug—–> \o/
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“In the case with “hip hop” it is said to be a “culture” and it glorifies crime and immorality in general, so in this case crime and culture are pretty much synonymous.”
You never heard Chuck D? Years ago, rap was political and substantial. Plenty still is. Just because all you hear is the commercial gangstas-and-bling stuff you dismiss a whole genre. Superficial and ill-informed troll comment.
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@facetofloor
You are arguing assumptions. You have no proof who started the fight. You have no proof Martin circled around and attacked Zimmerman. What you have is one mans words of events. What you have is proof of a fight happened and Zimmerman was losing. Nothing morr unless you are going to claim you were the bushes or the concrete…grass perhaps..
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@ D
…And life imitates “art,” as is the case with hip hop. It’s kinda silly to think that criminality and hip hop became chic only after being marketed to suburbanites.
The poverty-crime issue (especially in a place like the US of A) is based more on values (which result in behavior) than anything else. After all, even the liberals admit that much of poverty is caused by bastardy. Bastardy is a moral issue and not a financial one. Also, why is it that when the wealthy commit crime, they are blamed for their moral failures, but when the “poor” commit crime, it is blamed on circumstance (and these are the same “poor” with a wardrobe full of clothes, spinny things on their car rims, are obese from gluttony, with flat screen TVs in their homes)?
You can go to genuinely poor countries and see the people there actually tend to be the kindest and most generous of the people. Crime is not an issue—certainly not on the level of crime one finds in the ghettos of black America.
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Sharina,
Yes you have lowlifes in all cultures. Some of those lowlifes even form gangs. The difference with blacks and (many) other cultures is that other cultures call their lowifes, “lowlifes.” Black culture now has become almost synonymous with criminality and dysfunction. That’s the difference.
Why do i have to look at others to fix my own problems? Doesn’t make any sense. If you have deficiencies in yourself, you fix yourself. The crime stats are significant in the sense that if someone sees a person from, let’s say in this case, a high crime statistical group, then he is going to be treated differently from a person of a low crime statistical group. Again, just common sense and human experience.
The issue at hand (would be) how do black people get themselves out of the high crime statistical group? (Of course, as long as black folk blame others and engage in the same decadent behavior, then of course, their circumstances are not going to collectively improve.)
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@KOT, you are right. If you are being followed by a stranger, you don’t go home. And for Trayvon, it was not even a neighborhood where he actually lived, where he knew the neighbors.
I guess the safest thing would be to find a public place and chill out there for a while until the creep disappears. But where can you do that in a residential neighborhood?
This is the stress of life in the USA – worrying about going home. You always have to worry about becoming prey.
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Facetofloor, you still sound like someone who has never been followed.
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There us such a thing as striking before you get strike. You get busted up I am telling you this nothing is going to save you. Met with baseball bats in high school. I was pretty fast you had to be if you were me and running isn’t always the best solution. Zimmerman put him in a flight or fight mode. All he had to do was stop following. So yes, I blame Zimmerman for getting himself into a dangerous situation, he never needed to be in.
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@ Sharina,
So you are saying that Zim did not have his head busted up and No Limit did not have his knuckles bruised? Okay, let’s just say that this is just another element of the “racist conspiracy” against No Limit, why, given that Zim was an out of shape porker, and T-Von was just a little innocent boy (according to the corporate controlled media) walking home, why didn’t the football playing little boy just run away?
What you have (had) was a thug and an over-zealous wannabe cop. Their two worlds collided and the thug was taken to the morgue. That’s something that has happened TEN THOUSAND TIMES since the Zim-Tray incident last year. But again, the real issue at hand is not being addressed, and that is how do black folks stop breeding thugs and wannabe thugs?
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@ Cadger,
You gonna have to do better than that. I’m from the East Coast and grew up on rap. Yes, PE was relatively socially and politically conscious and contributed to my own racial awakening, but there were also plenty of rappers/rap groups (at that time) who were spewing moronic and degenerate lyrics. Furthermore, black folks CHOSE to abandon the lyrics of PE for the likes of NWA, Geto Boys, Tupac Nakeer, and the other vermin who went on to basically destroy a generation of black youth.
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@ KOT
I hafta confess, i’ve never been followed. As for Zim, ya, he did put himself in a bad situation and should’ve just let the cops take care of it. But that still doesn’t mean that you attack someone–and if you attack someone and their armed, well you might get T-Vonned.
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I think we are missing something here: and even if Trayvon had beeen a little thug, Zim had no right to follow and kill him. Stand your ground by the way means stand your ground, not run beyond your ground and shoot.
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@ facetofloor
Wow. You are sick. And you are here preaching “values”? *vomit*
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@facetofloor
Please read again what you have written. I am not sure you actually mean it the way we read it because there are too many contradictions and disconnects in your posts. Maybe you wrote too fast?? Have a good look and try to understand why we are all so upset, and then clarify.
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@ Sondis,
Just for the record, my race has no bearing on the truth of what i said (that’s beside the fact that your assumption about my race is inaccurate). Furthermore (for the record) i have said nothing “racist,” and i am not a racist. Lastly, black folks aren’t profiled merely on the basis of their race; they are profiled because of BEHAVIORS that are very prevalent amongst them. And sadly, all black folks have to bear the burden of those largely accurate stereotypes.
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@Facetofloor
Honestly I hate trolls like you. Why don’t you fall to the floor and stop typing? Honestly your screen name is hilarious because it describes you! This blog is for Blacks non Whites especially Black people to discuss the problems that Blacks and non Whites face and are important to us. Not for stupid White trash like you to troll. This blog means a lot to me because I can comment and talk about issues that matter to me and the Black Community.
Most crimes are NOT interracial. Statistics show that 86% of Whites kill other White people and 94% of Blacks kill other Black people. I am not denying that interracial crime doesn’t exist but most people kill people within their own racial groups. If you look up statistics, I doubt you would because
And please don’t come on here and ever talk down to me! I know the issues that I face as young Black woman of 17/18 NOT you! I know the issues in the Black Community NOT you! I do plan on graduating from high school and going off to college to become a journalist and try and help out the Black community.
Please, don’t you ever dare talk down to me or anyone on here. You don’t know anything about me or the Black Community!!!
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Honestly trolls like Facetothefloor get on my nerves!!!! I just can’t stand them at all.
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@facetofloor
They aren’t called lowlife by those groups either. Unless we count the older of these groups who freely do just that.
It is not so much a matter of looking for them to fix but a matter of lecturing when not fixing their own problems. This is not to say no problems to fix but it is a deflection when it is thrown up and the individual s have no room to talk.
Crime stats are just numbers. Numbers that again can be skewed. They show arrest not convictions….they fail to report from all areas (and I am on repeat). My common sense and experience has taught me to not take them as serious as many people do. People see the numbers and fail to truly account for what they mean.
There must be several levels of changes in order for that to happen. One is less lip service and more action. As I stated to others. We have people to lecture (which is great) but we need to realize these people don’t know how to begin or the correct way which is where others with their stuff together can be a mentor to support. I am in support of blacks having their own schools.
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“Statistics show that 86% of Whites kill other White people and 94% of Blacks kill other Black people”
So even with everyone killing mostly within their race whites are still more likely (8%) to kill a non white person than a black person? So who should be more worried walking through a majority white neighbourhood, a BP. Compared to a WP walking through a black neighbourhood.
I’m not surprised, even though I’m Canadian not American, I know how WP like to blame their problems on us. Telling us to go back to Africa, when maybe they should go back to Europe–I mean u know what the sun does to your skin 🙂
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@facetofloor
Damn…So you think the stereotypes are accurate. Maybe, and if it is true, it needs to be addressed BUT ask the right questions!!! People living in violent environments are VICTIMS, even when they end up being perpetrators they are still victims. Now if you are non-white, and you are soul searching in order to give your life a direction and make something out of yourself, and you put so much emphasis on responsibility and values because you want to believe that willpower will take you where you want to go, well, we can only approve. BUT don’t allow this to make you blind to reality, do not forsake who you are because trust me, there will be people to remind you and throw mud at you when you think you have made it.
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Ann, you left something out of the equation. I’ll plug it in (it’s point 3):
1. Trayvon was a thug.
2. Zimmerman followed the thug (makes sense to me).
3. Trayvon (apparently) ATTACKED Zim.
4. THEN, Zim killed No Limit in (apparent) self-defense.
To be honest with you, i think all this emotionalism is due to people doing too much TV. Overall, i think this T-Von case was just another example of psy-ops run on the general public. The incident has been used by the owners of the media to manipulate and divide the American public. I find it very odd that few people are even able to discuss this thing in anything that remotely resembles an objective fashion. People were literally CRYING over the killing of some unknown thug, as if it was a family member. This goes to show the power of the media over the minds of the masses.
As for contradictions in what i’ve written, please point one or two (or several) of them out for me.
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The only reason the stats are like that, is not because blacks do more crime they just get caught more! Even in highschool, I know that, because the white kids do a lot of illegal things (smoking weed, cigarettes) in public…yet, when a BP has a cigarette in their dorm room they get in trouble…now I don’t do any of these things but I know that the black kids will always follow the white kids cuz it’ll lessen their chance of getting caught. Cuz of things like Zimmerman finding Trayvon suspicious for wearing a hoodie and reminding of some black criminals he had failed to catch…what about the many serial killers in the country who are primarily white males killing in broad daylight? What if I started profiling wm walking down the street looking angry with a puffy jacket (I’m not going to lie since I was young I’d always been scared of these types, cuz they were most of the criminals I saw on TV in Canada, and they did some of the worst crimes)
White kids will be given a slap on the wrist for a crime that will cost a black kid the rest of his highschool career…trust me, I’ve even seen this with teachers and one teacher (who happens to be black) said ‘teachers are programmed to see black kids as troublemakers’ for doing the same thing that the white kids are doing but getting a worse punishment because that’s how teachers view them as ‘troublemakers’
I’ve experienced the same racism in class the white kids will be hollering and cackling through out the class, but as soon as we start to laugh not even as harshly, “y’all need to be quiet! Stop making so much noise”
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@facetofloor: Did Trayvon really attck Zim? If you follow someone the way Zim was, I think that someone will feel they are being attacked already and any reaction will feel like self-defence.
Do not diss people’s reactions to the crime and trial: it is an expression of frustration and pain over centuries. Sit for a minute and try to understand how raw non-whites are, in general, even if some individuals may not be. Maybe you too are over reacting in a bid to be objective, you ignore a lot of factors??
I will need to get back to you about the contradictions because I would like to do this well, and slowly.
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annef1:
Don’t fall for it, facetofloor is white, they always try to claim they are not white and BLACK, so they don’t come off as racist. I won’t be surprised if this isn’t the same person that i called out for being a white sock puppet, pretending to be a black person.
I’m sure that is why, facetofloor, hasn’t clarified which race he/she is, so i and others, don’t expose him, again!
“facetofloor
@ Sondis,
Just for the record, my race has no bearing on the truth of what i said (that’s beside the fact that your assumption about my race is inaccurate”
Notice how he/she doesn’t specify a race, this is because they learned not to claim that they are black, because he/she knows we saw right through it in their previous posts, so they don’t identify themselves, while denying to be white at the same time.
I’m not falling for it, neither should any of you… I just don’t get why everyone on this blog, wastes time, trying to convince, racist white people like facetofloor of their racism.
I rather spend the time on this blog to speak to and uplift my own black and brown people, not argue back and forth with a race of people that really can care less about black crime, treyvon or any black person, killed.
sigh…………….
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Trayvon was not a thug. He had no criminal record. The fact that so many white people are literally cheering his murder tells you all you need to know about the prevalence and persistence of white supremacy among many whites, especially conservatives.
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@Torontogirl Tsst what did you do? lol
Anyway, sadly, it’s not just whites who get skin cancer from too much sun by the way.
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@ Anne
My advice is to take it easy on the Cultural-Marxist propaganda. Ultimately we are responsible for ourselves. If our circumstances are bad, then it is the duty to overcome our circumstances. If our character is bad, then it our duty to rectify our character. And if both are bad, then we must overcome both.
People are the way they are largely b/c that’s what they want. If they really get fed up with their situation, then they change. Most don’t b/c they don’t want to.Years ago i was overseas with a young man (he was 16 at the time–i won’t refer to him as a “boy”). We were talking about life in Philadelphia (he was from one of the roughest projects in the city). I had been in Philly for several years at that point (prior to going overseas), and i could not begin to wrap my mind around the pathological ghetto mindset of the people there. In the course of one of our illuminating discussions, he said to me about ghetto folk: “Some people like it that way.” Really, that was an epiphany for me—everything i had experienced with the black lower class crystallized at that moment and made sense. (…Incidentally, he is currently doing life in prison.)
This mentality of having to be everyone’s victim makes the person weak and irresponsible. It isn’t, to be frank, a very manly way of viewing the world. Black people TODAY are largely in the condition they are in b/c of deficiency in (collective) character. And that can be seen in the values (or lack thereof) that they espouse. When a person resolves to fix himself (or herself) morally, then the norm of things is that person’s circumstances improve–and if his circumstances don’t improve, at least his character does. This is an ineluctable fact of existence. The more folks embrace it, the better things will be.
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Our skin is better suited for the sun than them…we don’t get skin cancer as often (do we ever?) we don’t get freckles etc…the skin doesn’t make our skin wrinkle faster, I mean we’re from the continent of africa, the sun has to be our friend 🙂
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@Torontogirl
Yeah, that’s it…bad grammar is the latest that’ll get you a rap on the knuckles. We are doomed!!
OK Folks, clocking off as it is late in my neck of the woods and besides, we got flooded yesterday (UK, Todmorden) so have to get back to a bit of scrubbing. Read you all tomorrow.
@Brothawolf, are you around? did your book get published?
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@torontogirl. Last post: we do get skin cancer, I should know.
I agree with everything you say about school, although in my experience not all teachers were that prejudiced, or I would not have become a teacher.
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Aww, that’s good for you Anne! :))
I know not all teachers obviously I was talking about some specific teachers
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Adeen,
I use the moniker “Face to Floor” because that is what Muslims have to do when they perform their daily prayers. You can see more if you click on my name facetofloor, for it links to my blog. As far as my (alleged whiteness), i will admit that prolly some white folks did some creeping behind the love shack or big house back in the day, but no one who has seen me ever accused me of being white.
What you should do is really consider that perhaps YOU are the racist, for you find it inconceivable that a black person could possibly have a different worldview than the standard “I’m a victim and i can’t get up” groupthink of African-Americans. One might say: “Shame on you.”
I did say that most crime are inTRA-racial and not inTER-racial. The former meaning WITHIN the race. On this point we agree (even if there was some confusion over the term employed). And i do wish you well in your studies, but i would advise you not to allow yourself to get brainwashed in these Cultural-Marxist institutions of “higher learning.”
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“As it turns out, on average there is a Zimmerman-style shooting (armed security person or vigilante killing an unarmed black person) once every 28 hours.”
…from this country’s founding up until today, Abagond. It is just amazing how so many white folk like to pretend they’re so “civilized.” I guess if you tell yourself that lie long enough you start to believe it.
Despite all the deflection going on here, statistically speaking, they occupy the highest crime group in this country! But, as Chinua Achebe said, (as did you in #3), “Until the lions have their own historians, the history of the hunt will always glorify the hunter.” Their absolutely, uncivilized savagery has been well-documented in the following series, “Violence: An American Tradition.” Kinda puts all of their BS arguments into perspective — Warning, not for the faint of heart!:
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vr00KMl-Jus&feature=share&list=PL5546E34F759CB33F)
@Adeen…young Sister, you make me proud! I’m sure that one day you will be one of our historians, particularly since you’re in spaces like this one — learning some truth, instead of buying into the garbage that has been taught in American schools for eons. Good luck!
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Sharina,
When we talk about MURDER, we all know that an astronomically disproportionate amount of it is committed by black males. I don’t know why people want to cavil about the stats. There is a massive problem that needs (well, should’ve been) addressed regarding illegitimacy, the breakdown of morality, and the black family decades ago. Now, in my opinion, it’s too late b/c there is no moral compass to deal with these problems. What you have is the disintegration of a culture. A large part of this was, of course, by design, but also a significant part was black folks’ own doing.
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@Abagond,
Thanks for this post. I’m tired of this type of argument. It’s like white people want to point the finger to say, “I told you there is something wrong with black folk” almost an excuse to make more prisons, because you know those black folk are just sooo violent. It’s in their blood. This type of stereotype is taught in “How to be a Racist” manual on day one. 🙄
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Mrs. Ocean,
You misunderstood the stat that was posted. Whites have A LOT MORE to worry about regarding being attacked by blacks than blacks by whites. It is enough to consider that a disproportionate amount of the violent crime is committed by blacks. White on black violent crime is relatively rare. Black on white is… well, just go look up the inter-racial rape stats.
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facetofloor you are really naïve, I can tell you as a black person who has had to walk his little sister through white neighborhoods to go to school; there are plenty enough attacks. Throwing bottles at a 12 year old kid with his 7 year old sister is violent. Trying to take a swing at kids with brooms from a moving car is violent. The only difference is when I went to the station to report the police asked me what I was doing in those neighborhoods. So please don’t go preaching about crap you have no clue about.
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Mrs. Ocean,
Blacks are profiled b/c they commit more crime. As a result of this profiling, this means that blacks are caught more often than whites (partly b/c they do more crime, and partly b/c they are profiled). Given that to be the case–and every black person knows that–wouldn’t it simply be more prudent for black folks to simply avoid criminal behavior. It would seem to me that it would actually provide black people with an INCENTIVE to be better citizens.
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The way I commonly hear the “black-on-black crime argument” differs markedly from how the blog author has heard it.
The main issue I hear raised is regarding “proportionality of response”. The observed amount of activism resulting from the Zimmerman case appears much greater than the amount of observed activism regarding intra-racial killing, even though the latter is about 20-to-1 greater.
An analogous situation might be if people protested and held nationwide rallies in the aftermath of a plane crash, even though plane crashes account for a small fraction of transportation deaths, and while car crashes seem to not get nearly the same attention even though they pose more danger.
Given that the response seems well out of proportion to the level of danger, those making the “B-on-B crime argument” appear to be questioning whether safety is really the ultimate concern, or if people are simply not reacting to safety concerns rationally.
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Often times I wonder if the report of white on black violence is actually under reported. I personally do know a lot of blacks who have experience such violence but instead of reporting kept quiet because they were afraid of getting involved with the police.
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Facetofloor, the more you type the worst you get. Please, read up on paranoia how it works. Also I would like you to read up the difference in discipline between Good schools and Bad schools. Learning more about behavioral studies before commenting things in which you seem to understand little about. It seems to me, is a statement that is negative.
Now watch this example, it seems that terrorist are mainly Muslims. Wouldn’t it be prudent for people not to be Muslims? It is a kin to your thinking please read and think about what you are typing.
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Mrs Ocean
Your comment was moderated for the “spic” in “suspicious”!
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@ Sondis
I see you got that “paranoiditis black groupthink” thing going on. You cannot determine my race by posts on a blog. As i said to someone else, you are actually the racist here, for you think that black folks can only have one (non-critical) viewpoint of their circumstances. Now, although it still doesn’t “prove” what my actual race is (i could be making it all up), folks can click on the link in my “facetofloor” name, and it will take you to one of my blogs. You can also search thru wordpress “inthisjournal” and it will take you to the memoirs-autobiography i am working on. That should prolly give one a good idea of what race i am and how i have come to my positions on the things discussed here.
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Rick, definitely. We have fight the system that makes it fortunate to born white and unfortunate to be born black.
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facetofloor:
You as a racist white man, don’t interest me enough, to go “researching your works”. Again, i am not here to go back and forth white racist white people, like yourself. I am here for my black and brown, brothas and sistas.
You can fool and trick, some blacks on this blog into, arguing with you back and forth but not me.
Have fun, throwing up crime stats…
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@ Trouble
Why is there this constant insistence on ignoring the deep and profound pathologies running through black culture? Why is it ALWAYS someone else’s fault for black failure and not (at all) the fault of mechanisms within the current black culture.
As for Muslims and terrorism versus violent black crime, i actually address this point on my blog. Let’s put things into context. In the 12 years since 9/11 African-Americans have committed about 85,000 murders. Muslims (or at least those professing to be such) have, in the name of Islam, killed fewer than 200 in this country. Furthermore, Muslims admit that there is a cancerous Wahhabi ideology that is being propagated in America by the Saudi funds, which is at the root of this terrorism. Muslims don’t play pretend that we don’t have a problem in our community. In spite of the Saudi regime being supported by the West, it (meaning, the Wahhabism) is still OUR (meaning Muslims, in general) problem that WE have to deal with—and are dealing with. This is a very different response from those who can’t look at their culture objectively and see how their behavior is contributing to their own destruction.
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Sondis,
So you make a (baseless) accusation about my alleged race. I offer you a way that would give the fair-minded person a much better idea of what race i probably am—and that can be done by merely clicking on a link—but you refuse to do so (or at least CLAIM to refuse to do so). Sondis, honestly, what do you think that says about your character? Your ability to defend your arguments? Your courage? Your regard for the truth?
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Trouble,
Do you think that a white kid or a handful of them at an all black school would not typically be bullied and attacked on the basis of their race? It goes both ways; however, when it comes to interracial MURDER and RAPE the perp is far more often black than white.
The media manipulators are just using this event as a means to control the public. That is clear to any objective person. They have a reason for what they are doing and it goes beyond just getting high ratings. It’s indoctrination.
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This is what I’ve been saying all along, but Abagond made it sound ten times better. 🙂
facetofloor
Why is there this constant insistence on ignoring the deep and profound pathologies running through black culture? Why is it ALWAYS someone else’s fault for black failure and not (at all) the fault of mechanisms within the current black culture.
1. What is black culture?
(If you know what it is sense you’ve used it in a sentence, tells us what it means.)
2. Black people have never, ever denied that there are problems within their community. Some even believe that they are their own cause. But for as long as I know, I’ve never heard anyone deny that crime is a problem in some communities.
On the other hand, when it comes to white people and their crimes (and sins), denial is usually the word of the day. Their denial is a pathology in itself. But to say so would be deemed racist to whites and whitewashed POC.
Here’s the deal, to ignore the problems going on in white communities is a GREAT DISSERVICE, especially if you proclaim how much you think whites are superior. That just shows that you want to protect the image rather than confronting what you don’t want to see which is another pathology.
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solesearch – you wrote:
“This is were empathy and compassion come into play. Our experiences are different but you should be able to imagine yourself in our place, experiencing what we have. Racism keeps you from doing that. It keeps you from seeing our experiences as valid.
This is how white people can say stuff like why don’t black people care about black on black crime. Because they don’t care about black on black crime, they think no one else does. Even when there have been numerous protests and rallies about it.”
Do you not see your own racism in that response? That is why I think we’ll not work this out rationally. My racism keeps me from empathizing with you – what is that keeps you from seeing my points of view? I care about violent crime in my neighborhood, city, state and country. My children will live here and my grandchildren if I’m so lucky. Why is that black people don’t care about violent crime enough to stop engaging in it? Hell most blacks don’t even acknowledge it – until a non-black kills black, then there are political points to score, maybe even a cash settlement. Why cant’ you acknowledge that my perceptions are just as valid as yours, even they are just as wrong as yours?
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Should read “even IF they are just as wrong as yours?”
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@ Deb
How many of those armed shootings are done by blacks and how many by whites? I would assume that a disproportionate (i.e., more than 12%) of such shootings would be done by blacks, for it is black folks who have to deal with this pathological ghetto madness more than white folks (first thing that comes to mind is the Atlanta mall security guard).
Again, why are people failing to wonder why black folks are associated with violent criminality? Could it be because not only are a disproportionate number of violent criminals are black… and that black people, in general, are not condemning their culture that breeds criminals?
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Facetofloor –
I’m intrigued by your writing today. I had thought, like sondis, that you might be white man masquerading as black to antagonize the people here, but I went to your site and now believe you are who you say you are. I have to tell you that this piece
http://facetofloor.wordpress.com/2013/06/05/682/
has really gotten my attention. Is this your work? I’m most impressed especailly with your penultimate paragraph that I copy here for anyone else to read.
The Negro leadership will never dare say that to prevent this cycle of pathology, black people need to stop producing out-of-wedlock babies—children who are the products of “booty calls,” night club “hook-ups,” drunken binges, and those seeking to enhance their child support and welfare check incomes. Will this boy ever be instructed in the importance of self-discipline? Will he be instructed not to look at women as mere objects? Will he be taught about the importance of a work ethic or an education or the love of learning? Will he ever have any sense of what is going on in the larger world and his role therein? Statistically, he probably will not.
That sir, is directly to the point and I wish I could have stated it as well as you have done.
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Wolf
Black culture: a prevailing set of values and behavior–today, much of that culture would be associated with hip hop/rap, criminality, low social function (that’s not to say that there aren’t different classes of black people, but as i said above, black culture tends to trend down).
Crime and denial: Rejecting crime stats that conform with experience in black neighborhoods is a form of denial. And given that most of the crime is committed by black males from illegitimate families, then yes, the problem is largely self-inflicted. And even if one doesn’t want to say “self-inflicted” the solution to the problem must come from personal responsibility—which is an anathema nowadays in black culture.
White denial: on this point we would agree. Whites have various neuroses and almost a schizoid thing going on when it comes to their claiming (let’s say, America) being a “free country,” while being founded on slavery and genocide.
White superiority: never said such a thing. It is good, Wolf, not to lie; otherwise, the person will develop a reputation as a liar. Actually, white culture–with its deep sense of hatred of others, and neurotic fear of trying to hold on to its “whiteness”–in many ways is more vile than contemporary black culture (and again, i am talking about CULTURES and not races—it is possible for one to transcend his culture).
Speaking about the twisted nature of white culture, however, doesn’t change the fact that 70% of black children are illegitimate (and in some slums the number is NINETY PERCENT). It doesn’t change the fact that black males–6% of the population–commit more than 40% of the murders, and we can go on and on. The problem lies in a dysfunction in the culture. And the solution is in putting an end to that dysfunction… but that is the more difficult to resolve because reprobate folks like being the way they are and are not concerned with self-improvement.
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Ya, that’s my stuff, Riverside.
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“Negro leadership”? Wow. I guess I will not have to write that parody post after all…
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Right, so the illegitimacy rate in Iceland is 66% yet the homicide rate is 6% of the American rate.
The White American illegitimacy rate is above what the black rate was when this whole Black Pathology argument was put forward in the 1960s in the Moynihan Report. Where is the White Pathology argument? Is someone working on that?
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@facetofloor
“When we talk about MURDER, we all know that an astronomically disproportionate amount of it is committed by black males.”—Actually we don’t know. People look at the numbers and run with it. What you do know is from the data collected that is collected (which by the way is not all departments). What you do know is it shows arrest and these arrest may or may not lead to an actual committed crime. This is what you know. People never ask or care to even ask “Are those individuals actually guilty of those crimes?” or any other questions that should be asked. That is why I don’t and let me repeat don’t hold on to stats about any group like others do because these are the things that should be asked for one. We all sit and assume what they mean and what they show, but at the end of the day it is nothing more than that.
“I don’t know why people want to cavil about the stats”—Because people are skeptical of them. How have they been used in the past exactly?
“What you have is the disintegration of a culture. “—What you have is a people who never had a real culture of their own to begin with. They learned behaviors and attitudes that a society will not let them slide by with like they will let others who do it. Now they are in a position of finding their own a disassociating themselves from the very people that placed them in this situation to begin with.
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riverside_rob,
“Why is that black people don’t care about violent crime enough to stop engaging in it? Hell most blacks don’t even acknowledge it – until a non-black kills black, then there are political points to score, maybe even a cash settlement. Why cant’ you acknowledge that my perceptions are just as valid as yours, even they are just as wrong as yours?”
I see no racism in my response. I can empathize with white people. I can’t say things like “why don’t white people care about mass shootings enough to stop engaging in them” without realizing how ridiculous that is.
I think we have a problem with you(white people) projecting your behavior in regards to white on black crime vs black on black crime onto black people. Something isn’t national news until white people care about it. So if you’re basing your perception on what’s important to black people based on what the white controlled media portrays then your perception is wrong.
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If we are to talk personal responsibility then why is this being thrown in the face of blacks that have their sh*t together. I mean in essence it is not my responsibility to fix some other black persons problem right? Oh but if I don’t then I run the risk of being profiled…then the question becomes whose problem is that?
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Abagond,
Okay, let’s think this thru. Our colored folk iz always complaining about how they are “oppressed” or behind other ethnic groups. The social race wasn’t even from the gitty-up… but somehow serial bastardy is going to get black folk up to speed? For one, there is just the self-esteem issues that stems from a woman being a habitual fornicatress, and we all know the jokes about black males and their inability to forgo delayed gratification with their reproductive organs. If you want to know why black males and females have such disdain for each other, ya need look no further. Again, you are making my point: a people without moral compass are bound for failure.
As for the situation in Europe, the culture is stale and dying. They, too, have lost any notion of values. It’s not violently decadent like black ghetto culture; it’s more just hollow. That’s why they aren’t having kids in the first place (and like you said, the ones they are having are largely illegitimate).
As for the Moynihan Report, that’s some pretty good stuff. The guy predicted that bastardy would undo black America… and he was right! If you have a culture of busted up homes, serial fornication, and a morality formed by the popular media/corporate psy-ops crew, you ain’t doin’ too good and will probably not be able to compete with those who have greater social cohesion.
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@ Riverside_Rob
To answer your answers and confusions…you don’t know most blacks to know what they think feel etc. This is why I personally consider most if not all your arguments invalid. How many black people can you truly say you even know? and of those that you know do they represent the majority? Let’s be realistic here and stop with the ummm naive I don’t know responses
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Oh, let me add Abagond, there are people who are concerned about the white illegitimacy rate and what the implications are for the long term stability of the white family. BTW, you guys seem OBSESSED with talking about white folks, when you are suppose to be taking care of your “own people.”
As for my using the phrase “Negro leadership,” i was obviously being facetious, like i was when i used the term “colored.”
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” To answer you question and confusion”….If it is from your experience then fine because I can not and will not take that away from you.
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Sharina,
Do you REALLY think that black males don’t commit a considerably disproportionate amount of the murders in America? Do you think it’s crews of white men in black face driving thru black ghettos offin’ black folk? I mean just recognize things for what they are. You have a culture (i.e., the black underclass) that revels in ignorance, stupidity, impulsiveness, and violence. That underclass is deemed to be the embodiment of the “authentic black experience.” You don’t hear rappers saying: “I’m gonna keep it real and go to Yale.” Keepin’ it real, in their context, is being engaged in pathological and degenerate behavior.
As for the culture, yes i would say that it was largely engineered on the plantations back in the day and then what came after it. The problem here is that black culture was never intended to excel white culture… and most black folks have been perfectly fine with that (and now with this reprobate ghetto culture coming to define “blackness,” one can be CERTAIN black culture won’t surpass whites). If the thing is broke, either fix it or throw it out and get another (or develop another). I’m of the mindset that it’s time to get (develop) another culture that goes beyond antiquated Jim Crow notions of race/identity.
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So I guess it is still ok to watch the sopranos then? American mob culture at its finest.
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@Sharina
Actually considering the black on black murder rate, the pure numbers of black victims and their relative purportion, not only do black gangs kill more, they kill “vastly” more so than the criminals of other races in the US.
While the tendency for white people to be spree killers is something that needs to be studied, when it happened there was all kinds of stuff going on about violence in tv and getting more gun control going on.
@Cadger
There’s one problem with your point of view, you seem to refer to black people as a whole as poor, but what a little over 80% are middle class on up?
@Mrs. Ocean-Graham
Actually when it comes to being more willing to attack people out of the race it is black criminals who are most prone to it, they are more loyal to their race given a chance to choose between a black victim or a victim of another racial group.
The murder rate is lower for white people because that’s how much less likely they are to murder.
And murder is one of those crime stats that’s a lot harder to manipulate than the others, basically the other crimes stats could very well be due to racial bias in society and the police but murder requires a victim and killer.
All this being said; its not like white people aren’t violent, we are simply “less” violent than black people, we are still notably more violent than just about every other race out there.
Hell; for that matter, considering how small the population of african-americans that commit violence actually is, most of it could be in just one city or general area.
Which could actually make a pretty good argument for why african-americans don’t stress out as much as you would think about black on black crime, for most of them its simply not a problem that exists in their life.
Or to put it another way, most violence is drug connected and happens in your poorer or more “ghetto” areas but 80% of black people are middle class and up/not poor, don’t live in ghetto’s, so 80% of black people or 8/10 don’t deal with that problem.
And it is true, the african-american culture was heavily influenced by white society, down to what preachers were allowed to preach.
If the culture that was made is as bad as some people claim it is, then that is the fault of our ancestors for making it so.
@Facetofloor
They aren’t having kids because of economics, once human cultures reach a certain level we start to breed less and less.
Poor people breed a lot because it’s the only “insurance” or “retirement” they have the option to get, that’s why the more “common” people have a lot of children and its rare for the duggers and the like to exist among the rich.
If I remember; there is some debate about the whole “single homes lead to crime” thing, I mean obviouslly with only one parent that means the possibility exists for kids to get up to no good more, but there has been studies on cities with high levels of single parents or increasing levels of single parents and the crime rates have either dropped or stabilized, so it would not seem to be “purely” single parents lead to crime.
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As for ways to reduce crime levels; make Pot legal, focus more on rehabilitation instead of jail time and start serious treating crimes committed against black people as crimes.
If we are going to do executions; and really we probably shouldn’t, but if we are it shouldn’t just be the murderers of white victims that get executions and life sentences.
Black victims need to start getting similiar treatment and the police need to put more effort into looking for black kidnapped victims and when serial killers start working in black neighborhoods etc….
Maybe I’m just cynical but it seems like the only times cops come to black neighborhoods is to fuck shit up instead of just doing their actual job.
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@sharina
The Soprano’s like the Jersey Shore are Italians; we have no problem with doing negative stereo-types if its a sub-ethinicity within our race/nation.
Most people don’t identifiy with them because they aren’t the same ethnicity as them even though they are the same race.
Though it would be interesting to see a study on the criminal tendencies and violence of Italians.
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Sharina,
I am a Muslim. As you well know, there is an issue with Muslims and terrorism. If i am not in some capacity condemning terrorism committed in the name of Islam and condemning the ideology behind such terrorism, then yes, indeed, i am blameworthy to some extent. I understand that i will be profiled b/c of the way i dress or by my name; and i can understand why. And i can understand that this profiling will continue until i and other Muslims do more to counter what these extremists do in my name.
I can inform people that terrorists make up a tiny portion of the Muslim population. I can mention what motivates these terrorists; i can mention that very often these terrorists are supported by the Western regimes that claim to condemn them—or even mention that the word “terrorism” is a loaded term. But the fact remains that there are Muslim (or self-proclaimed Muslim) terrorists, and although their harm is largely exaggerated here in the West, they still pose a threat to the well-being of others (and themselves, for that matter).
The same principle (should) apply to black culture (underclass culture, in particular). We have a culture that is toxic. It burdens the society with high rates of social dysfunction and crime. In order for that to change, there has to FIRST be a willingness upon the individuals. If there is no desire for self-improvement, you can’t force someone to rectify himself. The desire for self-rectification is a moral issue… but if people are raised without a moral compass, then, of course, their culture is going disintegrate.
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“That is clear to any objective person.”
– – –
Hmm. This seems to me to be the logical fallacy “poisoning the well”. I’ve become more aware of the use of logical fallacies since a bunch of them were used by a commenter in an effort to discredit my stance in a discussion. Making use of logical fallacies only makes it appear to the uninitiated that one is winning an argument when one is actually just grasping at straws.
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@ facetofloor
“Do you REALLY think that black males don’t commit a considerably disproportionate amount of the murders in America?”—I don’t know and that really is all I am saying. I don’t trust stats and frankly I never have for the reasons I have mentioned. I could be arrested for refusing to allow a cop to search my car. I could be booked and later found not guilty or have it thrown out altogether, but that arrest will go in those stats. This is not saying that blacks don’t commit crimes and they are angels, but it is saying how much truth do those stats hold? How much weight is one willing to place on them knowing just that? People do that thinking stats are so true but have no clue of other facts involved with stats and frankly don’t care to know. They don’t care to know because it becomes a form of deflection or justification for them when they use it (not saying everyone use it for that reason but that is what happens).
“Do you think it’s crews of white men in black face driving thru black ghettos offin’ black folk? “—Didn’t know I was suppose to be caring what white men do at this point and that is not what I was saying or did say.
“I mean just recognize things for what they are.”—I recognize a lot, for what it is. I am hard on blacks that I see as lazy and can do better. I am harsh on people I believe to be criminals, but I am not blind to the wrongs in society.
“You have a culture (i.e., the black underclass) that revels in ignorance, stupidity, impulsiveness, and violence.”—Yep. it is called American culture. In fact it probably is more the underclass period.
“most black folks have been perfectly fine with that (and now with this reprobate ghetto culture coming to define “blackness,” one can be CERTAIN black culture won’t surpass whites).”—I agree.
“’I’m of the mindset that it’s time to get (develop) another culture that goes beyond antiquated Jim Crow notions of race/identity.”—And that I can agree on, but this is where the work comes in. What culture do we create for ourselves apart from whites? Because I don’t think “white” culture is healthy for us. I would go into more detail but I am not sure if that is off topic.
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Fiamma,
Now you just fell into the fallacy of bifurcation. It could be the case that the person employed a fallacy AND he could still be winning the argument and NOT grasping at straws. You could challenge either his intelligence or honesty, however, for using a fallacy, but his use of a fallacy doesn’t mean he’s losing the argument or desperate to win it.
Anyway, when one puts his (or her) emotions aside on this discussion, one can see that the treatment of the media of the T-Von case probably has some sort of agenda behind it. As one person said, there has been no sense of proportion in relation to this case. One black thug is killed in apparent self-defense, while a BRUTAL case like this (just a few miles away) is TOTALLY ignored by the media:
http://www.examiner.com/article/two-teens-arrested-for-gruesome-hammer-attack-near-sanford-fl
Now what do you think would’ve happened if it had been two white teens, one of whom is from a hate group family (as is the case with the Yahaziel character) were to have attacked a 50 year old black man and beat high pretty nigh to death with a hammer? It would’ve been headlines, like the No Limit N-Word case (especially given that this incident happened soon thereafter). Folks need to look at this whole thing from a deeper perspective.
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@ V-4
I mentioned the Sopranos mainly because I noticed some youth (during that time) thought they were cool. Some youth decided to mimic this behavior. Idolized their lifestyles. I have to wonder how many others have followed this path of gang life because of the glorification of the Sopranos. To me and the way I see it…American culture is a complete downfall. Tv in general glorifies the wrong sets of values and many poor families are raised by the tv, so to say blacks culture blah blah blah is in my opinion an ignorant sentiment when this type of behavior is seen in all cultural groups in America these days.
As for white crime rates…I think they know how to not get caught…..lol (probably should not have laughed).
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Because you are assuming that blacks are a monolith group. I am black but I have trouble with both black and white groups. I am not monolithic, and why should I have to work harder than another group of people because I was born with beautiful brown skin. You ask a question but your questions are naïve at best, spiteful if you know what you are saying. I am giving you the benefit of the doubt because misunderstanding do happen.
I have asked you a question because many of Muslim friends started to feel like paranoia here. They have felt the police harassed them and now they have said we didn’t know but we can see now how your treatment was different. If you aren’t even brewing in the pot how can you add to the tea? You are looking a stats and personally I do not believe in them because of the high drug rate of whites I personal know. I do not believe them because I have seen my white friends get away from things that blacks cannot. I have seen the cops treatment of my white friends. Which leads me to mistrust cops because the treatment is not equal. So if it is not equal in the basic of law enforcement how is it going to be better in more hidden ways. Your lecture to someone who has sat in the waters of this place and have had the culture steamed into him seems childish. Everyone can have an opinion and I find personally that I don’t like yours. Tons of blacks everyday take responsibility of their lives. I do not blame every Muslim for terror or harboring ill thoughts about the States.
Unlike France if a woman wears a full on burqa I do not assume she is opposed and stupid. I met many highly intelligent women who do don one on. However if I were to use just media and what the propagate to understand Muslim culture I doubt it would be in a great light. You may have fallen for that blaring media light but like a moth to the flame it will get you burned. There are plenty of middle class blacks not into all the stuff you have mention. We get lost, in the glare that is this countries particular problem. I just had an argument with relatives over the idea that all Native Americans are just waiting for government assistances. They have the gimmie gimmie culture is what the person said. We live by a reservation and peoples images are warped.
What you call black culture is but a microcosm of what truly is black culture. It because the overshadowing American culture filters out our image. Hip Hop as if that is all black, hip hop involves everyone now and has been usurp from those who made it. Even Rap has but no you know better than the pot. Of course you do.
Just like it might seem every American has gun, I still know quite a few Americans that don’t. Your primus is one of superior but your foundation is a weak one. Now I have to go take care of my son who I hope doesn’t have to put up with your kind of ignorant foolishness. You seem like an intelligent person but don’t let numbers make you an intelligent fool.
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Sharina wrote to
@ facetofloor
“Do you REALLY think that black males don’t commit a considerably disproportionate amount of the murders in America?”—I don’t know and that really is all I am saying.
Yet a few moments earlier she wrote to me
“How many black people can you truly say you even know? and of those that you know do they represent the majority? Let’s be realistic here and stop with the ummm naive I don’t know responses”
Lady, you’re all over the place – will you be realistic and stop the ummmm naive responses?
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@ facetofloor
It would have been the same thing that it was when black teens are killed by whites. No media coverage or time. Martin’s situation was not the only one, but the only one to get media coverage, so lets not pretend their is some mass media bias when it is not. Plus Martin’s parents put in a lot of work to get awareness because had they not even his case would be unknown.
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Sharina,
I need to go, but i will give you props for being one of the more fairer minded people i’ve encountered on this topic.
I mention murder in particular, for the reason that was mentioned by someone else above. When it comes to drug crimes, for instance, it is easy to target blacks more and get more collars. When a white kid gets caught with drugs, very often the cops will give him a break. A lot of cops are, after all racist (even by my standards) and like to harass and even frame black youth. When it comes to murder, however, such incidents (USUALLY) are not overlooked. Also, we know that a disproportionate amount of murders happen in black neighborhoods. And even if we make an allowance for some distortion in murder stats, you can’t distort them to the extent that it looks like blacks and Asians or even whites commit murder at the same rate.
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solesearch
You wrote:
I see no racism in my response. I can empathize with white people. I can’t say things like “why don’t white people care about mass shootings enough to stop engaging in them” without realizing how ridiculous that is.
You realize how ridiculous it is because whenever there is a mass shooting conducted by a YT the country comes unglued and our politicians start looking at the possibilities of removing our 2nd ammendment rights from the populace. Your statment is ridiculous because it is so WRONG. White america cares deeply about our crimes, so much so that it is willing to deny basic freedoms of innocent people in the misquided attempt to prevent it from happening again. We should be so lucky that your community would have the same level of care regarding your own dirty laundry.
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@ Riverside_Rob
And what part did you fail to understand about my response? I wrote to facetofloor “I don’t know and that really is all I am saying.”
My response to you:
“How many black people can you truly say you even know? and of those that you know do they represent the majority? Let’s be realistic here and stop with the ummm naive I don’t know responses”—
So again what are you confused about? You don’t know either because you don’t know the majority black. This does not change. Get your head right Rob or just get out of the conversation. I don’t need you attempting to twist and confuse my words.
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@Sharina
I have your back on this one! Black men aren’t perfect but can you explain to me why most of the serial killers and murderers in this country are White? Most of the time when I hear about men shooting up the place, most of the time, they are crazy, deranged White men.
In fact, I live in a mostly White area and I fear a White man walking around in the dark more than anything!
@Face to the floor
When will you go away? You don’t care about the Black Community. I come on here to discuss the issue of Black on Black crime with my own people. And you come on here to stir up trouble and distract the people on here from the real conversation and problem.
And not all of the Black youth is lost and into Hip Hop culture like you think they. I know because I am 17/18 and I am a straight A student and not into the Hip Hop culture. Nice try acting to care when you are just using stereotypes and your own personal assumptions to form an opinion on Black people. You don’t know anything about us besides what you see on TV, trust me. You don’t know how it is like to be a Black person in a racist country.
Yes I do plan on helping my community when I grow up and get a degree one day. I do plan on doing something about Black on Black crime. And I DON’T need the help of filthy trash like you!
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@ @ Riverside_Rob
It is ok if you can’t answer the questions because deflection is what you are good at…other than the occasional azz kissing. 🙂
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Peanut,
I am going to try to help you out. Whites outnumber blacks (i mean real white people and not the mestizos) about 5 to 1. So it would be expected that whites IN AGGREGATE commit more violent crime… but that isn’t the case. Blacks are about SIX TIMES more likely to commit murder than whites, which offsets their differences in overall numbers.
As for the consumption of (c)rap by whites, ya, again for the reason mentioned above, that is probably true (i know negro apologists mention this point, but i never challenged it—don’t care enough to google it, i guess)…. But… whites are also the biggest consumers of the blues and jazz—they have largely kept traditional black music alive.
Okay, with that said, the difference between white consumption of (c)rap and black consumption goes back to the thing about art mirroring life /life mirroring art. White kids, wiggers aside (and wiggers are typically regarded as racial misfits—and it is hoped (by whites) that the kid will come to his senses and grow out of it) don’t see rap music as a source of values. It’s entertainment that they might enjoy… but then they also ridicule it. Black folk tend to embrace “rap” (meaning the lyrics thereof) as a source or values and “way of life.”
You can drive around where i live and see our locals dressed up in their rapper costumes, pretty much acting as if they were living in a giant extended-play rap video. White kids play pretend with this stuff, black kids (and not only kids) tend to see rap as making the core of their being. Truth be told, there’s a big difference between the two.
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@Adeen
I think it comes down to it being easier to blame the ails of American on one group rather than for it to own up to it’s faults. You have to think about how white society (not all whites here) have built themselves up in the eyes of other countries as being something it is not. So when people point to that fault then it is easier to say “well look at blah blah blah.”
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LMAO!!! Man, he has the whole Condescending White Guy thing down pat.
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Adeen,
Comparing serial killing to the black murder rate is unsound. For one, i believe the FBI says that at any given time there about 100 serial killers operational nationwide (that versus 7,000 murders committed by black folks annually). And yes most serial killers are white… but like i said above there are FIVE TIMES more white people than black, so given that there are MANY MORE white people than black people in this country, it wouldn’t be unreasonable to think they constitute the bulk of serial killers (who make up only a small portion of the murders). If i remember, however, blacks constitute a DISPROPORTIONATE number of serial killers, it is not astronomically disproportionate, like the general murder rate.
Also, for the record, Adeen, no one is saying ALL black people. We (i) am talking about the TRENDS within a given CULTURE. There are always exceptions. To think that (c)rap does not have a signficant influence on the minds of black youth, and that from it many derive their values and sense of normalcy would mean that such a person is out of touch with black culture (or else in a deeeeeeep state of Duh-Nile, and i am not talking about a river in what used to be called “Kemet”).
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Because when it comes to murders we haven’t found out that black men have been falsely imprison.
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Sharina- you could not have been more clear. You don’t accept the “I don’t Know” response from somone like me, yet you yourself use the very same response to a question you don’t want to answer a few moments later. Disingenuous.
I do appreciate your honesty when you categorically state that my arguments are invalid because in your opinion I don’t know many black people. This is exactly I think we’re destined to fight. I don’t think you know many white people, at least not on an intimate level where you speak about these topics and disagree sometime. You seem to be angry most of the time, and you blame YT for most of your communities’ problems. I’ll bet you’ve never had an honest disagreement about race with a white person before. You can agree with a lot of yt’s like Rick Marauder, but real disagreement is something you don’t get much of.
Well here it is then, I think your arguments are invalid because you don’t respond to questions – you cloud the issue with attitude (“I didn’t know I was supposed to be caring about what white men do”) and childish attempts to point the finger at the bogeyman statisticians who lie to make you look bad. Face to Floor laid it bare at your feet and you closed your eyes and said “nah nah I can’t hear you).
You have a need to feel like a victim. Well you’re a victim – happy?
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riverside_rob,
“You realize how ridiculous it is because whenever there is a mass shooting conducted by a YT the country comes unglued and our politicians start looking at the possibilities of removing our 2nd ammendment rights from the populace. ”
You talk about the country and our politicians…What have white people done to stop the mass shootings? I haven’t heard any white people talking about the pathologies of white culture that keeps producing these mass murderers. Because crime committed by white people isn’t seen as a white problem, it’s seen as an American problem, an institutional problem, a legislation problem.
What does the country(which can be read as national media) and our politicians(white politicians) say when 20 people are shot in Chicago? Again, it is pretty obvious that white people don’t care until they can use it to deflect from their pathology. Crime committed by black people is treated as a black problem and left for us to contend with sans the resources of our country and full power of our politicians.
Here is what black people have been doing: http://thegrio.com/2013/07/29/congressional-black-caucus-chicago-leaders-residents-propose-solutions-to-citys-violence/
You’ll note the line: “The Reverend Jesse L. Jackson, who consistently leads non-violence initiatives in the Chicago area and across the country”
And with all that five minutes of coming unglued nothing ever changes. We just sit around and wait for the next white guy to shoot up or bomb a public event.
What have white people done consistently about that?
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facetofloor,
Black culture: a prevailing set of values and behavior–today, much of that culture would be associated with hip hop/rap, criminality, low social function (that’s not to say that there aren’t different classes of black people, but as i said above, black culture tends to trend down).
Wow! And you don’t think that is a racist statement, to almost consider that much of the 40 million black people in the U.S. loves hip-hop and crime? It seriously makes me wonder if you’ve even seen a black person outside television.
Crime and denial: Rejecting crime stats that conform with experience in black neighborhoods is a form of denial. And given that most of the crime is committed by black males from illegitimate families, then yes, the problem is largely self-inflicted. And even if one doesn’t want to say “self-inflicted” the solution to the problem must come from personal responsibility—which is an anathema nowadays in black culture.
If you’ve read my comment correctly, you would see that I never opposed that I’ve yet to hear blacks not think there are problems with crime in some black communities. To date, I have never heard one black person deny that there is a crime problem.
White denial: on this point we would agree. Whites have various neuroses and almost a schizoid thing going on when it comes to their claiming (let’s say, America) being a “free country,” while being founded on slavery and genocide.
That I do agree.
White superiority: never said such a thing. It is good, Wolf, not to lie; otherwise, the person will develop a reputation as a liar. Actually, white culture–with its deep sense of hatred of others, and neurotic fear of trying to hold on to its “whiteness”–in many ways is more vile than contemporary black culture (and again, i am talking about CULTURES and not races—it is possible for one to transcend his culture).
I never meant ‘you’ as in you in particular in my comment. I was referring to white supremacists and so-called race realists. Other than that, I agree with this part.
Speaking about the twisted nature of white culture, however, doesn’t change the fact that 70% of black children are illegitimate (and in some slums the number is NINETY PERCENT). It doesn’t change the fact that black males–6% of the population–commit more than 40% of the murders, and we can go on and on. The problem lies in a dysfunction in the culture. And the solution is in putting an end to that dysfunction… but that is the more difficult to resolve because reprobate folks like being the way they are and are not concerned with self-improvement.
Look, if you rely on mere numbers to tell you about a race of people, you are lying to yourself if you’re trying to sound intelligent and wise.
Black people do not have a defective culture any worse than whites or any other group of people. The issues and problems of illegitimacy, crime and poverty are seen in EVERY GROUP, ESPECIALLY WHITES.
By trying to portray these issues as “black problems” is disingenuous and down-right arrogant. It suggests that only such problems are black problems and if they are fixed then all will be right with the world. That is far from true.
So, it seems to me that you’re trying to give white people a pass while at the same time briefly suggest that they have issues of their own and try not to see how their issues play a part in ours in some way. Again, that is not thinking intelligently to ignore that whiteness is not a factor in at least some of the issues some black neighborhoods face especially given the history of white racism in this country.
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“Because crime committed by white people isn’t seen as a white problem, it’s seen as an American problem, an institutional problem, a legislation problem.”
And
“Crime committed by black people is treated as a black problem and left for us to contend with *sans the resources of our country and full power of our politicians*.”
x1000
Thank you!
I find it ridiculous that some whites are blaming blacks for the lack of coverage on black-on-black crime in the white-controlled media.
Just this week, I received a email in my inbox about a rally for a girl disabled by a stray bullet from a high-crime area. I am subscribed to a website that caters to black issues and news.
Blacks have been doing things for years about black-on-black crime, but you’d never know from the MSM. You’d have to go to a news site geared towards black people.
Welcome to 2013.
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@Riverside_Rob
Do quote where you have used the i don’t know response? That was just my description of you. You like to pretend like you know more than you do and hence this paragraph.
“I don’t think you know many white people”—So quote where I claimed to know a majority or even many white people? Of the white people I know I saw good things about so be careful what you say or attempt to say from this point forward in regards to my feelings of white people I know.
” You seem to be angry most of the time, and you blame YT for most of your communities’ problems”—Really and you concluded this based on ? Your perception of what I am saying and your perception becomes valid how?
” I’ll bet you’ve never had an honest disagreement about race with a white person before.”—You are right. Sucks to be around whites that actually see me as a person and judges me individually.
“You can agree with a lot of yt’s like Rick Marauder, but real disagreement is something you don’t get much of. “—And who is he?
“you cloud the issue with attitude (“I didn’t know I was supposed to be caring about what white men do”) “—That is funny considering that facetofloor stated that we focus too much on what whites do so the moment I respond with a lack of care for whites it gets turned into invalid (oh how you fail to keep up).
“childish attempts to point the finger at the bogeyman statisticians who lie to make you look bad.”—And where did I point the finger at them exactly? I remember saying clearly I don’t trust them for any racial group so you failed again 🙂
“You have a need to feel like a victim. Well you’re a victim – happy?”—And what is it you want me to be the victim of again? I don’t see where I said I was the victim of anything. I don’t remember even mentioning racism. Oh but I was suppose to in order for you to feel like you made some type of point right?
Nice attempt at trying to read me though, but some advice. Stay out of conversations you easily get confused on.
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@Riverside_Rob
And next time you want to pick out a quote of mine do quote it in it’s entirety and stop the attempts at skewing what I say.
““Do you think it’s crews of white men in black face driving thru black ghettos offin’ black folk? “—Didn’t know I was suppose to be caring what white men do at this point and that is not what I was saying or did say.
Now if there is some other question you “think” i did not answer to facetofloor then by all means quote it. I have not problem reiterating what I said and meant to you. It helps if you stop trying to look for any and everything to make me wrong about my position. That little agenda of yours will make you slip up.
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oh and for better clarity the answer to the question is no…
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facetofloor
“I need to go, but i will give you props for being one of the more fairer minded people i’ve encountered on this topic. “—I appreciate you being respectable to me.
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Faceonthefloor:
You missed your calling as a stand-up comedian!
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@Riverside Rob
What are you trying to say? Personally I like Sharina, she is a good commenter is a good insight on things.
@Face to the floor
You don’t care about the Black Community at all. You are here to stir up trouble. Black on Black crime is not your responsibility, it is mine and the rest of Black Community’s responsibility!
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Good grief, you people are more patient than I am.
I have a good number of Pakistani and Bangladeshi Muslim friends. NONE of them ever came across as arrogant and condescending as Facetofloor. He/she comes across, to me, as a n00b Muslim who has a lot to learn about humility.
Facetofloor said:
“Just for the record, my race has no bearing on the truth of what i said (that’s beside the fact that your assumption about my race is inaccurate). Furthermore (for the record) i have said nothing “racist,” and i am not a racist. Lastly, black folks aren’t profiled merely on the basis of their race; they are profiled because of BEHAVIORS that are very prevalent amongst them. And sadly, all black folks have to bear the burden of those largely accurate stereotypes.”
I don’t give a flying one what colour that troll is. That post was pure, SIMPLISTIC racist stupidity. He/she either ignores the pressures that shape culture or is incapable of that depth of understanding.
Wow, one person can single-handedly screw up a blog page’s signal-to-noise ratio to that extent…
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@Adeen
What rob attempted to do was read me. He failed miserably. When most individuals like him fail to have anything to argue or get the upper hand in an argument on they seek to read someone in order to find flaws to make their whole points invalid.
Had he cared to ask me about myself and my thoughts rather than assume he would find that their is a great deal about me that he is unaware of.
@ Torontogirl
I am sorry that someone almost ran you over. That has got to be the most scariest thing.
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solesearch
You talk about the country and our politicians…What have white people done to stop the mass shootings? I haven’t heard any white people talking about the pathologies of white culture that keeps producing these mass murderers.
Then you’re not paying attention – or is it that the answer doesn’t fit the narraactive you’re tyring to build?
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Adeen said:
“You don’t care about the Black Community at all. You are here to stir up trouble. Black on Black crime is not your responsibility, it is mine and the rest of Black Community’s responsibility!”
That is truem but it is also the responsibility of the society that has placed black people at a comparative disadvantage. Take away the rights, dignity and opportunities from a group of people and they will be forced into behaviours that do NOT come naturally to them.
Don’t be tempted to engage in argument with people who claim that one race is more inherently criminal than another – even if they try to camouflage it by saying that it’s a cultural rather than biological thing. Cultures are shaped by the pressures to which a population is subjected.
That spurious argument is one you cannot win. People like Facetofloor are not interested in debate. They spread propaganda.
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annef1, it is why I think black women are awesome. I am not sure I could handle it if it were me. I usually didn’t have to think is the person following me a rapist. I just had to think how crazy is the person and how can I protect my sister from them.
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Riverside_Rob
To date, none of the politicians let alone political pundits and commentators point the finger exclusively at the white community much less acknowledge them by word. Instead, we hear “American society” or “society” instead, not “the white community”. Not only that, we’ve never heard any of them blame such incidences on broken families or a dysfunction in white culture. The worst we get is that the criminals suffered from some mental illness implying that it wasn’t totally their fault and that they didn’t know what they were doing.
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It’s insane the way some people portray themselves as knowing more about black people than black people themselves. It is not only pompous to tell us what to think and feel, but it’s insulting. It rejects their humanity by inserting yourself into their world in a bid of trying to control it and silence the other person’s voice for selfish gain. It is not done out of ‘goodness’ and these people need to get it through their thick skulls.
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I was reading my Sunday newspaper and a section caught my eye, that parallels with this thread. The Sunday Letters section in my city’s newspaper. This commenters comments were titled “Pent-Up Questions, A Mr. Freeman, goes on to say now that Mr. Obama has made it acceptable to discuss the racial divide in America, he feels both black and white should participate in this discussion. Seeing how it’s been taboo for whites to discuss their feelings for 40 years without being called racist. Most of the time in my opinion they are racist. Mr. Freeman starts to lists what he wants to add to the discussion. He says, Lets talk about crime and drugs.Why are the prisons filled with mostly blacks. and most daily crime continues to be by blacks? these are the derailments. Whites commit crimes, they have meth houses and they go to prison and they commit heinous crimes as well. But they put that in their discussions, They shoot up schools and movie theaters and are then excused as being mentally ill. Mr. Freeman asks, Why is it always discrimination when discussed? Then have not Mr. Freeman goes on to make a stupid statement, saying the same goes for education, Blacks have been given every opportunity but have not taken advantage of it. Excuse me, but whites drop out and are underachievers and losers and stoners and they don’t take advantage of opportunities. To be honest they don’t have to do much of anything, because they have white skin and priviledge and opportunities will be made for them in the United Snakes of America. He goes on to say that instead of black completing their educations, they would rather be cool and disruptive. Like whites are not guilty of the same thing. And he uses stereotypes. This is all the derailments white racist who have no interest in correcting the problem of race in America use. This commenters letter is an example of derailments when discussing black on black crime in America. The racist white individual never wants to mention how they to are complicit in this problem of racism in America. White supremacy invented the social construct of racism.
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I also think it’s pathetic that people like Facetofloor rely on statistics to tell him who black people are as opposed to talking to actual black people and not at them as if they’re mere intellectual inferior infants. And on top of that, he doesn’t think what he’s saying is racist. If it’s not racist, what is it? Oh yeah. It’s realism. Uh huh. Whatever.
The late Dr. Amos Wilson discussed how black-on-black crime is a product of white domination: He theorizes that it is essential to maintaining the status quo dominated by white Americans. The system of white supremacy needs the black male to be perpetually angry at the world, at his own people and himself while feeling a since of helplessness and dependency. So, the system of white supremacy will try to deter him from gaining the same powers and privileges as afforded to white males. It insults who and what he is, denies his basic human rights and has the power to render him as a raging animal trying to survive.
So, in a sense Trayvon and intra-racial black crime are linked to maintaining whiteness. But no one has any right to tell us which one is more important when no matter how you see it, black lives are lost regardless.
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Brothawolf:
You dropp’n the knowledge, brotha! high five o/
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Peanut:
gemme hug—- > \o/
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“facetofloor @
Sharina, I am a Muslim. As you well know, there is an issue with Muslims and terrorism. If i am not in some capacity condemning terrorism committed in the name of Islam and condemning the ideology behind such terrorism, then yes, indeed, i am blameworthy to some extent. I understand that i will be profiled b/c of the way i dress or by my name; and i can understand why. And i can understand that this profiling will continue until i and other Muslims do more to counter what these extremists do in my name.”
Linda says,
Such humility and understanding. I guess you weren’t part of the group of Muslims who were protesting their decade old treatment of racism and discrimination since 9/11
“Perhaps more than any other minority, American Muslims identify with the travesty of a trail that just ended. Trayvon Martin was black, but could easily have been Muslim. Exchange the hoodie for a hijab or a beard, and the parallels in stereotyping become quickly obvious.
Before shooting Martin, Zimmerman told dispatchers that he looked “suspicious.” The same things happens to American Muslims on a daily basis, whether they are randomly selected for additional screening at airports or followed around by a security guard at a shopping mall, or their neighbors leave them strictly alone.”
https://www.tikkun.org/tikkundaily/2013/07/16/trayvon-martin-and-the-american-muslim-perspective/
I wonder if his Muslim family members know that “Uncle Abdul” is on this blog talking like a white race realist.
Behind the door, most Muslim Americans are practically saying “f’ck white people” but this “Uncle Abdul” managed to find Abagond’s blog to stick up for white Americans …. Wow, such a Saint.
If the Boston bombers had the same attitude as this troll, then maybe many people would still have their limbs attached (notice how fast those 2 “white Muslims” got their American and their “white card” pulled by the media / white society)
This new troll seems very knowledgeable about statistics that concerns black America — just like every race realist that ever came to Abagond’s blog — they bark out Statistics about black people like rabid dogs and sing the same d’mn songs.
God Bless all of you for taking the time to respond to trolls who pretend they are non-white European “minorities”.
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*High fives Sondis* lol
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Linda,
I remember facetofloor being here before but under a different name. I remember his avatar being the same as it was back then, and what he said in another article is the same as what he’s saying here.
He presents this view of whites being deluded, but not in the same caliber as blacks who are largely child-like, violent and hip-hop lovers with no explanation. To him we are worse than whites, or so it seems. And all he needs to tell him so are numbers, statistics that don’t even tell half of the story much less can be completely trusted to begin with.
If there’s one thing these people are afraid of is the truth coming from black people. They think theirs is the only truth that matters. There are no other truths. It’s not based on logic, but emotion because the truth from black people scares them.
I’m also highly suspicious of these trolls whitesplaining everything and say how they are not white but this, that and the other. If they are indeed white on the other side of the screen, it’s very telling as to how they don’t pride themselves in whiteness as much as they seem.
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Riverside_rob, the only time white pathology is brought up is as satire or parody of the way white people talk about crime in black communities. Any other time white crime is framed as an American problem or as brothawolf pointed out a mental health issue.
Which I don’t have a problem with because you know I can empathize with white people when I hear a white man has just killed 20 something 6 year olds I don’t go “when are white people gonna do something about this white crime”, I think “we” need to do something.
Your racism keeps from viewing crime committed by black people this way.
That’s why it hasn’t gotten better because instead of working with black people to combat street crime white people continue to feed it by enacting and promoting racist policy and backing a racist justice system.
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@ Brothawolf
When you make an entrance you make one.
I noticed the “hip hop” music is blah blah has been brought up. I listen to hip hop on occassion and I have never been prone to selling drugs, robbing, or killing someone. It was not until I watched Kill Bill that I was convinced I was to be a trained assassin. It made me feel as if this lifestyle the character was living was exciting and fresh.
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@ Face
You sound just like a white man:
1. You sound like a condescending prick.
2. You are blind to your own racism.
3. You say we are the racist ones.
4. You see blacks in monolithic, stereotypical terms.
5. You seem to get all your knowledge of black people from television.
6. You think gangsta rap is a true representation of how black people are.
7. You think crime statistics are a true representation of how black people are.
8. You trust the police, made clear by your faith in crime statistics.
9. You take Zimmerman’s side over Trayvon’s.
10. You dehumanize Trayvon.
11. You think blacks do not have much of an honest reason to be upset at the Zimmerman case.
12. You believe in racial profiling.
13. You see black culture as “pathological”.
14. You talk about poor blacks as an “underclass”.
15. You say it is not race but “culture”, like that is fooling anyone.
16. You use the black-on-black crime argument.
As a Muslim American there “iz” plenty you have to learn. “Prolly” the hard way.
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@ Face
17. Your picture of black people seems to be rooted in outdated, racist white sociology, not in lived black experience:
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2012/05/25/the-white-ethnographic-gaze-the-1960s/
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@ Linda
LMAO!
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@ Face
So wait, can we say white culture is pathological since it gives rise to high rates of illegitimacy? What has the practice of genocide and slavery done to their “values”? Does defending the killing of an unarmed 17-year-old boy have any effect on their moral compass? Is it a sign that it is out of whack? What about all that gun violence, vigilante justice and out-of-wedlock sex in Hollywood films? What about having the largest military machine in history? Does being the most powerful people in history, does that corrupt White Americans? You never answered my question about the White Pathology argument.
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Just an observation…
In my country I am aware of many attacks and murders perpetrated by white people upon black and South Asian people purely BECAUSE they were black or Asian. I am not aware of any equivalent cases where black or Asian people have perpetrated unprovoked attacks or murders against white people BECAUSE they were white.
I don’t know if that is because of a media reporting bias in favour of reporting white-on-black/brown attacks or due to there genuinely being more white-on-black/brown violent attacks. If I were asked to bet, my money would go on the latter.
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@ Rick
Hate crimes in the U.S. in 2009 according to the FBI:
1503 white on black
304 black on white
11 black on Asian
10 Asian on black
72 white on Asian
2 Asian on white
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Thanks for that, Abagond. Kind of speaks for itself.
Pardon my (censored) language, but that’s f*cking shameful. I’ll be in this corner cringing in embarrassment.
And before a stat troll says that’s because there are more white people to commit those crimes… Save your predictable breath. They managed to find enough black / Asian people to attack, didn’t they?
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@ Ms. Ocean-Graham
“But it’s true ppl show more outrage when a wm kills a BP then when BP do it!”
You missed Abagond’s point:
“….the crying injustice was not that he was killed by someone not black, but that the police, and now the courts, let his killer get away with it, due in part to the racism of a white justice system.”
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@ Rick
There are some cases that I am aware of bit thw perp is arrested and charged in a matter of days. In cases of perps being white…they drag their feet.
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Correction…but and the and also if the crime is black on black…they drag their feet as well. Blacks can call the cops all day but it usually boils down to if the cops car to do anything with the case.
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@Face
“…And life imitates “art,” as is the case with hip hop. It’s kinda silly to think that criminality and hip hop became chic only after being marketed to suburbanites.”
It ain’t chic now. Only 13-15 year-old suburbanites think it’s “cool”. All of the thugs, gangsters, and drug dealers hate their lives.
“Also, why is it that when the wealthy commit crime, they are blamed for their moral failures, but when the “poor” commit crime, it is blamed on circumstance (and these are the same “poor” with a wardrobe full of clothes, spinny things on their car rims, are obese from gluttony, with flat screen TVs in their homes)?”
Most wealthy people who commit crimes are sociopaths, which is a whole other ballgame. Second, poverty is relative. We’re all rich compared to, say, the Founding Fathers. Third, obesity, like felony, is correlated with poverty in America. High caloric, low nutrient foods are easier to produce and greatly subsidized, thus cheaper on supermarket shelves
“You can go to genuinely poor countries and see the people there actually tend to be the kindest and most generous of the people. Crime is not an issue—certainly not on the level of crime one finds in the ghettos of black America.”
Except most Poor and Working Class Black people are also genuinely kind, respectful, and dignified folks. I’ve chatted with them, went to church with them, many locals work at my university. There are simply more destructive nihilists in their midsts than in the middle and upper classes. Likewise, there are plenty of good folks in Afghanistan and Mexico, but plenty of warlords and drug cartels too.
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Abagond, you should do a post on the “Hip Hop Culture” excuse. Because the white “people” are running out of excuses. Too pussy to show their racism out in public, so they run to the internet, only to find that it’s no safe haven either, what with all us “uppity” blacks running around telling them the truth!
White “people” as if this “gangsta” nonsense was pushed by Black people to begin with. As if we went from Sugarhill Gang to NWA without stopping at Run DMC or Chubb Rock in between.
It is WHITE PEOPLE who made (mainstream) Hip Hop the violent cesspool that it is. White people’s violent history is proof of this. Of course, there is the fact that all things Black have ALWAYS been the nom de jour of Whites. They like Rock music but lack the creative capacity to have invented it. Just like the United States; wanted it, but too lazy to build it. Even with all of the murderers–whoops–“pilgrims” they brought from that plague-ridden septic tank of a continent that they call “Europe”.
So just like Elvis, Vanilla Ice, and Eminem, they see need to fit in to something cool and new…to show that they are beyond what their ancestors were, only to find that the climate had become (by 1991 by my count) WAAAY too political and isn’t/wasn’t conducive to their presence. Like tossing water in an igniting skillet of oil. They weren’t welcome. Your people are the most violent and evil in human history. Yours oppressed ours. Why do you want to be around us? But of course, the white “person” being what (he/she)it really is deep down…well…let’s just say they couldn’t have us making money while uplifting ourselves WITHOUT THEM…
So they planted their “Eazy-Es” and “Dr. Dre”s to get into the music. Then Hollywood with its “Boyz-N-The-Hood” and “Juice” and “South central” bullshit. Then HomoCoons like the Wayans Bros’ to turn the operation into some sort of joke like “Don’t Be A Menace”. They did to BET what MTV did to music and the “hisory” channel to history. They traded the News and Teen Summit for fucking’ Nelly and No Limit and these types of clowns.
And all just in time to ensnare a growing generation; mine. So that we will constantly imitate what we see on TV while being bombarded by every other obstacle whites throw at us.
And white people know that this is what happened. They know it. They know it because they have been behind every destructive force, cultural or otherwise, for the past HALF MILLENIA. Their hands are clean of nothing at all. They probably never will be, either as long as they defend the Zimmerman, Deens and, other chalky, pink skinned racists in their midst.
Too many of them are related to racists, though. Too many immediate family members who would want nothing more to kill a Black Person and blame it on “Hip Hop culture”, and their are too many whites who would defend these people.
THIS, above ALL ELSE, is what Black People HAVE to understand. At all costs. There may be one or two (thousand) good whites who get it. Good luck finding them.
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@Face
You know what, I don’t know why we’re bothering with you. There are several people who have devoted there entire lives asking why people do bad things, so come back after you’ve read about criminology for a month. And I mean the academic papers for starters, not some ABC special.
And if you can’t be swayed by empiricism, well, I don’t have the energy to argue with a true-believer.
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Here is a case of white on white crime with white privilege, being the outcome.
A White 18 year old teen, not only attacks a white cop, he takes one if the cops gun and fires it off and still survives!!! Guess what, you can subdue and arrest without shooting to kill, that’s only if you’re a white person and not a black person.
How many black teenagers have been killed by merly being in police custody, not resisting or fighting like this white teenager and not to mention, taking one if their guns and firing off a shot!
Lets see how these white racists like Rob and facetothefloor spin this one!
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2013/07/31/early-start-or-teen-attack-in-city-hall.cnn
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@ Sondis
Wow. Tazed 7 times and no one thought to shoot him out of “fear for their lives” huh? Every “scary” criminal argument whites use as a reason for white officers to shoot black ppl not doing anything (like getting something out of their car trunk) DEBUNKED!
Oh man, this country….
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Yeah Sugarkiss, aint that some bull spit! This white teen was high on mushrums and dangerous!
what happend to all these white people that pointed out that Treyvon was high, because he was smoking weed!
Racist double standard, this white teens life was obviously important, had this teen been black………I need not finish the sentence. -_-
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Thank you, Average Bee. Well stated.
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@ Avergae Bee
Out of the park again!!! Whoa! Loved that post 😀
(Hi-five)
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@ Sondis
Sometimes I think our “justice” system is too far gone for us to even benefit from on ANY level! The ones who have sworn to “protect and serve“, have literally become the “project and swerve….”
It’s disgusting.
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SugarKiss:
I’ve always mocked that slogan police use, “to serve and protect” with “To harass and arrest” when it comes to black people.
The duty of law enforcement is to round up black and brown people, not protect them, they only protect people that look like them, white.
That is why, police stations all around America, don’t like to hire black and Latino police officers, because it comes in direct conflict with their agenda.
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@Sharina
“@ Rick
There are some cases that I am aware of bit thw perp is arrested and charged in a matter of days. In cases of perps being white…they drag their feet.
Correction…but and the and also if the crime is black on black…they drag their feet as well. Blacks can call the cops all day but it usually boils down to if the cops car to do anything with the case.”
I don’t doubt it, and if that’s the case then the reality may be an even more marked imbalance than shown by the figures Abagond found.
@sondis
That video is crazy. I do accept your point that a black guy would have stood a much higher chance of getting shot, but I don’t have excessive trust in the police – even in my country. In the UK, where guns are scarce, our police regularly kill black AND white people in outrageous circumstances. They never get held to account.
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Solesearch
…the only time white pathology is brought up is as satire or parody of the way white people talk about crime in black communities. Any other time white crime is framed as an American problem or as brothawolf pointed out a mental health issue.
Which I don’t have a problem with because you know I can empathize with white people when I hear a white man has just killed 20 something 6 year olds I don’t go “when are white people gonna do something about this white crime”, I think “we” need to do something.
OK – I’ll explain this, because it really isn’t clear to you. White crime in America is crime in America – whites are (or have been for the most part) the majority of people here. So any time we’re talking about crime, I usually think of my breed as the criminals (you won’t believe that, but it true). Black americans are a subset of the population, and crime attributed to blacks is called black crime because it’s committed by blacks. If it’s now black, or Hispanic or Asian crime, its white crime by default. I’m sorry that we don’t say white crime, but that is what we mean. It’s like cola – if you don’t say vanilla cola, or cherry cola or lime cola, then whoever you’re talking to will understand you mean regular cola.
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To all commenters
Regarding the mass shootings, they make the news in a big way because they are relatively rare. Most cases the shooter is mentally defective, the Colorado shooter John Holmes and the Sandyhook shooter Adam Lanza are good examples. Colin Ferguson (black man) is known for his mass shooting on a NY commuter train was not noticeably mentally damaged, in fact he acted as his own defense attorney during his trial.
So when you’re trying to find some moral equivalence between thugs shooting up the hood in Chicago and some white wack job shooting up a school house in New England, you look a little silly.
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Hey Rick,
Saw your post and wanted to reply. You wrote
Just an observation…
In my country I am aware of many attacks and murders perpetrated by white people upon black and South Asian people purely BECAUSE they were black or Asian. I am not aware of any equivalent cases where black or Asian people have perpetrated unprovoked attacks or murders against white people BECAUSE they were white.
I don’t know if that is because of a media reporting bias in favour of reporting white-on-black/brown attacks or due to there genuinely being more white-on-black/brown violent attacks. If I were asked to bet, my money would go on the latter.
Well Rick – a little effort on my part shows that you live in a bubble. Here’s a quote from a Wiki page (not the most conservative source is it?) tilted Race and Crime in the United Kingdom
In 2005-6, 1,543 victims of racist crime in Scotland were of Pakistani origin, while more than 1,000 victims were classed as being white British.[21]
The British Crime Survey reveals that in 2004, 87,000 people from black or minority ethnic communities said they had been a victim of a racially motivated crime. They had suffered 49,000 violent attacks, with 4,000 being wounded. At the same time 92,000 white people said they had also fallen victim of a racially motivated crime. The number of violent attacks against whites reached 77,000, while the number of white people who reported being wounded was five times the number of black and minority ethnic victims at 20,000.[22]
Here’s the article.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_Kingdom
and one more or you and your rapt audience.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/3637720/It-is-time-to-be-honest-about-black-crime.html
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Rude, patronising bastard, aren’t you Bob? Makes you look a little silly.
“Mentally defective” is a pretty poor definition. It takes a psychiactric professional, or several, to establish mental illness or incapacity. Not all crazy people drool and wear their shoes on the wrong feet. The act of shooting people, in my opinion, is a mentally defective behaviour – even if the crazy person retains enough functional intellect to mount a credible legal defence.
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Why do people think Wikipedia is a credible source? LMAO.
I’ll look into it, Bob. Thanks for the er… “information”.
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http://card.wordpress.com/2006/11/12/the-hidden-white-victims-of-racism/
This may warm the hearts any white haters that may be here. Rick – you should pay attention, this is in your home country.
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The newspaper to whose website Bob linked is a right wing Conservative rag.
This quote from the article is probably all you need to see to get the idea:
“Just as using the word “black” in this context is to lay oneself open to the smear of racism, any perceptible targeting of black youths for particular attention by the police lays officers open to career-ending disciplinary procedures.”
It is a racist, Conservative propaganda piece.
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Whew! Check out of here for one day and — Man!
@ sondis…I saw that after posting a link to that, “Violence an American Tradition” video in response to part of Abagond’s post, facetofloor responded to me with his derailing questions that had nothing to do with the link I posted (not surprised). I decided to take your advice way upthread and ignore him. Didn’t need to add my two cents as everybody here handled him, and quite well, I must add — Bravo Family!!
That video you posted of that 18 year-old white kid says it all, Man — “No justice, just us.” {smdh} I came across this a little while ago that shows in stark relief, the difference in how we are treated: (Oh, and this happened in Sanford, FL too!) http://www.blackbluedog.com/2013/07/news/more-racial-injustice-in-sanford-fl-black-man-forced-from-car-handcuffed-at-gunpoint/
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Rick Marauder
Rude maybe, but I’m not patronising you. I think you’re a sell out coward that snuggles up to blacks in the hope they’ll kill you last. Your country is being overrun by immigrants – asylum seekers- you call them, displacing your native population for government benefits and spitting on your culture while you sanctimoniously sit here and claim English whites are racist brutes. How about the pakistani immigrants who groom your young white girls for prostitution – do you have sympathy for those victims of the mult-cultural fairy tale? Totenham burns because some punk shoots at police and is ventilated for his efforts – good riddance to mr duggan, yet your story is how blacks are the downtroddden. Acid attacks on the streets of London, rapes in cabs, stabbings at pubs – you either live in a protective bubble or you voluntarily stick your head in the sand.
You deserve what you’ve got in store.
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There is no need to argue with you. You are a transparent, raving nazi. Seriously, you have become increasingly rabid and irrational. It is quite spectacular.
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Deb:
Yeah, I’m not surprised! You would think they would keep a low profile, ( No pun intended ) from profiling black people as criminals.
Here is also another more recent, situation in FL.
(http://youtu.be/Dg3z0zaT7xA)
Sorry abagond, forgot to not embed the YouTube video, delete last post in moderation. ^_^
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“I think you’re a sell out coward that snuggles up to blacks in the hope they’ll kill you last.”
LOL. No, seriously, I really did LOL. You’re funny.
Nietzche thought the same thing about anyone who expressed “Christian” love for his neighbour. He believed that love is an expression of fear.
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Deb and at all:
(http://youtu.be/rUpgDxhG2OY) Spin this, white racist Riverside Bob!
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If we look at black crime statistics, of course white people have had something to do with things to get these stats to where they are. However, among many posters here, I see a pathological resistance to accepting that the black people (esp. those that commit the crimes) and black culture also play a role. At the very least, they chose on some level a reaction to the other races around them. This resistance in some ways is infantilizing and removes agency. If all responsibility and agency is removed, then you have a people blown by the winds that cannot make effective changes from within. That is defeatist. I believe when people like Cosby call for greater responsibility that they are trying to remedy this. If you wait for white people to change, then you might have to wait forever. Are you willing to do that?
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@qwerty
I agree entirely and it is the only point where we sort of understand where facetofloor is coming from: people are victims, true, but if you accept your condition of victim because you wallow in it and accept violence, because you answer it with more violence to others or to yourself (Self-destruction trough substance abuse), then you are giving the people who are victimising you all the power, then they win. As a friend of mine says “having a bright future is the sweetest revenge”, but it is very hard not to have the kneejerk reaction of answering violence with violence if it is all around you. Also, I think that a lot of people might hate their lives, but it is the devil they know, they have sort of come to terms with the notion they have no future (that makes me cry, all those bright kids I know!), venturing into the unknown is awfully hard if you are not armed for it and have no guidance.
So we need all these bright young people who want to become teachers etc.
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@ Riverside_Rob
“So when you’re trying to find some moral equivalence between thugs shooting up the hood in Chicago and some white wack job shooting up a school house in New England, you look a little silly.”–On the contrary you are the one that looks silly. Trying so hard to excuse a wrong simply because the media tells you he was mentally unstable (reason I don’t watch news).
It is actually quite fun watching you scramble for something. 🙂
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“qwerty,
This resistance in some ways is infantilizing and removes agency. If all responsibility and agency is removed, then you have a people blown by the winds that cannot make effective changes from within.”
Linda says,
so good of you to explain what Really is wrong with white America: they can’t take responsibility for their own actions and like children, want to blame the people who are the receiving end of injustice, nothing will change.
I agree, as long as white America stays in DENIAL of their continued role in the polarization and racial disharmony in USA, nothing will be changed effectively.
You can lead a horse to the water but you can’t make him drink — and white America is getting real thirsty
This thirst must be what is driving the continued DELUSION that they are not complicit in the Problem of race in the USA — they are still trying to find more ways (statistically) to validate their “fear-mongering, deep-seated marginalization” of black people.
Like you say, since “agency has been removed” and white Americans — there is No incentive for white America to change as long as they remain the Beneficiaries of the institutionalized racism that their white fore-bearers created, and continue to “guard” today.
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Very well said, Linda. ^_^
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@facetofloor
See what I have written above. God says that people who judge will be judged especially harshly. You judge everybody, so expect the worst. You told us with glee about this young kid who told you he was a victim and is now in jail for life because he was a case in point, proving your point. How can you be smug to see a young life go to waste? Charity is not helping the people whose way of life we approve. We all do that, it’s called looking after your own. Charity is helping people who need it without moralising, because helping people only if they follow your ways is blackmail and abuse of power. You can moralise afterwards, once they are back on their feet.
What makes Abraham Lincoln great? the fact he got rid of slavery? that’s only half of the story. Abraham Lincoln did not like non-whites. He got rid of slavery because he thought it was wrong. It was wrong full stop, wrong for people he liked, wrong for people he despised. It was wrong. He was able to see beyond “his own” into the whole human condition, and that makes him great
It is the month of Ramadan, your heart should be full of charitable, generous thoughts, instead, you are self-righteous and you refuse to empathise. You did not engage with the fact that 66% illegitimate babies in Iceland go together with 6% of the crime found in the US…because your worldview is narrow and does not allow it to process this fact and what it means.
I am absolutely convinced you are a good person, who is very afraid of life and is looking for rockhard certainties for re-assurance that bad things won’t happen to him.
Shalom
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Riverside_Rob:
…At the same time 92,000 white people said they had also fallen victim of a racially motivated crime. The number of violent attacks against whites reached 77,000, while the number of white people who reported being wounded was five times the number of black and minority ethnic victims at 20,000.[22]
I’ll bet that a significant percentage of these ‘attacks’ were as a result of retaliation from a white initiating an attack whether it is verbal or physical. I’ve seen all too often where WM think they have the ‘right’ to crack jokes and be personal, to the point of offense to PoC and when they object, things get ugly.
I am not saying that PoC never attack a WP unprovoked or from real or imagined behaviour but I know that historically and up to now, PoC generally do not think that the law is on their side, in fact, many would still probably say it is biased so that is why I think these statistics do not tell the whole story.
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@Shady_Grady
“Trayvon was not a thug. He had no criminal record. The fact that so many white people are literally cheering his murder tells you all you need to know about the prevalence and persistence of white supremacy among many whites, especially conservatives.”
And the mere fact that facetofloor called him a thug indicates his own prejudice and narrow-mindedness.
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@ qwerty
I am going to agree with you in regards to personal responsibility because i do believe that their are blacks (working with one now) that needs to own up to their own mistakes and fix their sh*t.
But I still disagree on the idea that there is this “black” culture. It still is consider American culture in my eyes but anything bad will always be looked at as a black thing.
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@ annef1
“As a friend of mine says “having a bright future is the sweetest revenge”, but it is very hard not to have the kneejerk reaction of answering violence with violence if it is all around you.”—You said a mouthful here.
This may be a stretch on my part but I believe blacks have been conditioned to certain behaviors and are now reacting in the way they were made to be.
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@ Linda
Well said.
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@Sharina
I think you are right, and this is why change needs to be directed inside as well as outside. I used to teach in a young offenders’ institute. Once I was in a class, all blacks and they were misbehaving, and I felt like strangling the whole lot of them, and then it occurred to me that 10 years from that moment, half of them would be dead, this was a statistical fact. My anger was gone. I sat there and waited. When I got a chance, I told them: why should society change to accommodate you? When you are annoyed, and God knows you get annoyed easily, the first thing you do is get a knife or a gun out. All society needs to do is wait: you are removing the problem by killing each other off. Now, if you stop that S…. (sorry, I did say that in class) and make a success of your life, they will have to make room for you. You’ll win.
A couple looked at me completely amazed. I hope I touched someone on that day.
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@ annef1
Sometimes it take a harsh wake up call for them to realize it. Being blunt was the best thing. There is a lady I have been working with to get her life on track and the biggest mistake I have made was keeping my mouth shut. Every time she messes up I stick my neck out to help her fix it. Recently I was fed up and I said something to her and it just made it worse. Mainly because I should have said it before and not wait until I was angry to say this.
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@Sharina
Your bluntness may still help: sometimes people react very negatively on the moment, they are shocked, and then they go home and reflect and they see things differently. 🙂
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Sharina
“So when you’re trying to find some moral equivalence between thugs shooting up the hood in Chicago and some white wack job shooting up a school house in New England, you look a little silly.”–On the contrary you are the one that looks silly. Trying so hard to excuse a wrong simply because the media tells you he was mentally unstable (reason I don’t watch news).
It is actually quite fun watching you scramble for something
Scramble for this – Many if not most mass shooting perps end the incident with a suicide? How many hood shootings end in a suicide? Do Any? You can spot the whack jobs by their actions and you can spot the hoodrats by theirs. It’s not that hard, you don’t even need to watch the news – just think on it a bit. I misspoke earlier, when you equate the two incident types, you don’t look silly, you look ignorant.
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@ Riverside_Rob
I lavish at chance to make you look stupid. It is all in good fun because you fall into anything and for anything.
” I misspoke earlier, when you equate the two incident types,”—And this is where you should quote me where I equated the two incidents? Again in your attempts to put words in my mouth. It is so fun watching you do it and try to equate your ignorance as mine.
So you believe that because a person kills themselves that equals wack job. How wrong you are. Have you checked mental hospitals lately or the mentally unstable homeless? I hear incidents of homeless attacks happen quite often and in many cases the individual is… a wack job as you put it, but few if any have killed themselves. So there are many categories to mental instability. Try using a google search, but not all people that kill themselves happen to be mentally unstable or a “wack job.”
So the racist appears. 🙂 this is fun.
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@ annef1
Thanks and I hope so. My biggest concern is her three boys. They are sweet and they will make great men, but she has got to get herself together to ensure that.
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The real problem with the Black-on-Black crime argument is that it treats Blacks as if they are all appendages of the same massive animal.
“That dog needs to get his own tail untangled from the fence before he tries to chase that burglar” is a statement that makes sense, because the tail and the rest of the dog are all one entity.
On the other hand, if I said, “This pack of wolves needs to wait until NONE of the wolves are injured before they hunt for food” it would be illogical. What’s to stop the uninjured wolves from hunting for food for the pack while the injured wolves are recovering?
In one case you are talking about a single entity, in the other you are talking about a group. Black people are a group not a single monolith.
Saying, Black people need to do A before they can do B is stupid. Why can’t they do both? The sequential nature of the argument is false. You don’t have to do one BEFORE you do the other. Blacks are individuals, and while some are addressing one problem, other’s can be addressing another.
The argument falls on its face on the grounds mere stupidity.
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@ Riverside_Rob
If you want to excuse white crimes, then by all means have at it, but the truth of the matter is you are proving exactly what is being said in here.
On the other hand the way I see it is you are saying it was ok that Adam Lanzo killed those kids because he was mentally unstable. He has a good reason and that is disgusting. Anyone that can even remotely try to justify that is disgusting to me.
I am sure you are going to come back with some blah blah excuse, but do save it. I don’t need to be sick days before my trip.
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on Wed 31 Jul 2013 at 21:16:01 Rick Marauder
You are a transparent, raving nazi. Seriously, you have become increasingly rabid and irrational. It is quite spectacular.
Hey Rick – according to Godwins Law – you lose.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law
Nice effort though, you effete windbag.
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on Wed 31 Jul 2013 at 23:46:27 Sharina
@ Riverside_Rob
I lavish at chance to make you look stupid. It is all in good fun because you fall into anything and for anything.
Sharina – do you LAVISH the chance or do you RELISH the chance?
that was fun!
Now it’s you trying to put words in my mouth – don’t, you havne’t got the horsepower. Go back, read the thread to understand it was you who brought up white mass shooters as a counter-point to hoodrat shootings.
Have a nice vacation, you deserve it.
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You see my black people?
This is why i NEVER go back and forth with white people on this blog.
The only reason white people come on this blog is to talk at, not talk too, black people and throw out, crime stats.
I think every black and browns blood pressure would go down, if they would follow my lead and ignore every white person on this blog. The only instance where i would talk to a white person on this blog, is if they are open to learning from black people and not always trying to, “teach or tell me how to live my life and explain every single, black pathology to me, even when it isn’t relevant to the topic at hand.
They proof over and over again, their main purpose for commenting on this blog and its not to LEARN a dang thing about how us blacks feel and think.
I always see the same pattern, go back and forth until the white person, starts the ad-homien and insult attacks.
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King, your logic is correct, or at least I agree with it. I think what has happened here is that some have tried to answer the question why is there a disparity of crime, harassment and legal trouble between blacks and whites, while others can’t stop shouting that there is a disparity – that point was conceded long ago.
It comes down to, blacks receive more attention from authority because SOME blacks are accused of more crime than whites (hat tip the women who point out that arrested does not equal convicted). The behavior of a small segment of the black population has ramifications for a much larger (and innocent) portion of the population.
That conversation got set aside as we began to bicker about the small percentage of criminal in the black population and just how criminal they are. So you’re exactly correct when you say Black people need to do A before they can do B is stupid. But the statement that B commits crimes at a high rate, B is a subset of A, therefore A gets profiled because one cannot tell the difference between A and B by sight is also true.
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Dang Sondis, you think you’re some wise old uncle? I come here to converse, not be lectured to. I acknowledge points when their made, and I share a white viewpoint. I’m not pretending to be something I’m not – I’m not a troll, I’m your neighbor, don’t you want to understand me as much as you want me to undersatnd you?
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@Riverside_Rob
“do you LAVISH the chance or do you RELISH the chance? “—Aww isn’t that nice you finally got one. 🙂
“Now it’s you trying to put words in my mouth – don’t, you havne’t got the horsepower. Go back, read the thread to understand it was you who brought up white mass shooters as a counter-point to hoodrat shootings. “—You go back and read the thread because i did not. Matter fact quote it and when you are done finding out who did then you owe me an apology.
So freaking out of it that you don’t have a clue who said what.
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Matter of fact save your apology because the embarrassment will be enough.
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@sondis : this is how I handle that too. I will read other ‘s response to them but mostly ignore all their posts once I’ve figured out that this is just another white person, speechifying from on high as if white people’s s*** don’t stink. Deflection and derailment. Everything but listening to what’s being said cuz hey! they know how to fix everybody ‘s problems and whatever they say is important, da***t.
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@ Sondis
As i can see he is at the point where he can not distinguish what one black person believes or has said from another. Next will be the psychotic rants and lastly the stupid enough to get banned move.
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lkeke, Sharina:
High five to that! \o You know the deal…I refuse to get ensnared into their web of lies and deceit, these white racist, want us to fight with them, so we don’t get a chance to heal.
This is something that a lot of black people, don’t understand.
The purpose of racist whites like Rob is to come on blogs where black people, congregate to talk about the issues that effect the black community among ourselves, is to cause chaos.
We never had time to heal, ever since we were free, They won’t even leave us be to talk among ourselves on a blog!
This is a Lestrade my black people, don’t be fooled by Rob’s false claims of, “I’m not a troll, I’m your neighbor, don’t you want to understand me as much as you want me to understand you?” Its deceit as usual from the white devil.
They never want piece, when it comes to black people, just confusion and deceit.
I wish just once i could comment on a thread, that abagond posts, amongst my own black people, without being antagonized by racist white people, that are trying to bait me into an argument.
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OK Sharina – follow me on this. I responded to Soleseach’s statement with one of my own, and I addressed it to all commenters. After that you took up the gauntlet. Here’s the exchange
Solesearch
Riverside_rob, the only time white pathology is brought up is as satire or parody of the way white people talk about crime in black communities. Any other time white crime is framed as an American problem or as brothawolf pointed out a mental health issue.
Which I don’t have a problem with because you know I can empathize with white people when I hear a white man has just killed 20 something 6 year olds I don’t go “when are white people gonna do something about this white crime”, I think “we” need to do something.
Your racism keeps from viewing crime committed by black people this way.
That’s why it hasn’t gotten better because instead of working with black people to combat street crime white people continue to feed it by enacting and promoting racist policy and backing a racist justice system.
1. Riverside_Rob
To all commenters
Regarding the mass shootings, they make the news in a big way because they are relatively rare. Most cases the shooter is mentally defective, the Colorado shooter John Holmes and the Sandyhook shooter Adam Lanza are good examples. Colin Ferguson (black man) is known for his mass shooting on a NY commuter train was not noticeably mentally damaged, in fact he acted as his own defense attorney during his trial.
So when you’re trying to find some moral equivalence between thugs shooting up the hood in Chicago and some white wack job shooting up a school house in New England, you look a little silly.
1. Sharina
@ Riverside_Rob
“So when you’re trying to find some moral equivalence between thugs shooting up the hood in Chicago and some white wack job shooting up a school house in New England, you look a little silly.”–On the contrary you are the one that looks silly. Trying so hard to excuse a wrong simply because the media tells you he was mentally unstable (reason I don’t watch news).
It is actually quite fun watching you scramble for something.
Maybe I’m misunderstanding you Sharina – if you’re not equating the hoodrat shootings to the whack job shootings, are you suggesting that the average hoodrat is as mentally defective as white nut jobs that shoot up schools and theaters?
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@ Riverside_Rob
“Maybe I’m misunderstanding you Sharina “—That has been your biggest problem from the jump.
What I am saying it is wrong either way. Mentally unstable or not, but you are the only one that seems to believe that it is somehow more acceptable. You in your own comments are comparing them.
What I said was not hard to understand. you just saw what you wanted to see in it, but either way it was still not me who brought it up and now you are trying to find a way around it. Tough sh*t. 🙂
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In fact the person who said it is not hard to find either but you were so consumed with black crime that you failed to miss even when this individual mentioned it.
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Correction failed to see where
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Sharina – you’re overwrought and will not or cannot understand me. You responded to me, you invited the conversation and now you’re trying to act like it wasn’t you. I showed you in the post where and when you stuck your nose in it and you still deny.
I’m willing to drop this here, there are no more points to be made and insulting each other isn’t prodcutive, do you agree?
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@ Riverside_Rob
“you’re overwrought and will not or cannot understand me”—This is not about me understanding you. It is about you were mistaken in something and are not a person of integrity to actually acknowledge your wrong. You accuse me of saying something I did not. What you posted did not prove what you claimed I said. It is not showing me bringing up massive shootings vs gang shootings or whatever.
What it is show is:
1. You are responding to someone comparing “hoodrat” shootings vs “wack job” shootings.
2. That I made a simple that clearly says “On the contrary you are the one that looks silly. Trying so hard to excuse a wrong simply because the media tells you he was mentally unstable (reason I don’t watch news).”
You can’t even tell the difference between a quoting of your words and my actual words. So in order to save face you go along with “I’m willing to drop this here, there are no more points to be made and insulting each other isn’t prodcutive, do you agree?” Oh I agree I will be dropping any further contact with you after this but not before I tell you to stick it where the sun does not shine.
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@Average Bee
Thank you, please I hope Abagond does make a post of “Hip-hop/Rap culture” to whites. Countless times I’ve been online or in real life, that most whites dislike rap music, in-fact most would consider it to be the “worst music ever created”, because of sexism, drugs, sex and violence, but yet no one hasn’t said a thing about Pop/Rock music, how those songs have just as much raunchieness and drug induced dribble in their music, but that’s “different”. As one comment said before on a diffrent BlogSpot (I think blackpeopleconfessions). Whites will say they CAN’T STAND rap/hip-hop music, but strangely ONLY like Eminiem, MGK, Yelawolf and so on….
@Sondis
Yes, I agree full on heavily on to your statements. I don’t even bother anymore and I vowed I would never argue with a racist/ignorant white person ever again, because it’s hair-pulling aggravation to explain again…..and again…AND AGAIN about their own ignorance to people of color. It’s like explaining to a 5 year old, but they keep on asking MORE questions, pulling out the same old racist statistics/media “facts” and then talk to you as if YOU don’t know what your talking about.Next thing you know, you’re on post 203344534 still arguing and proving their ignorance, but they STILL “don’t see it” and accuse you of being “emotional” a.k.a angry or ignorant *eye roll*. I applaud Sharina especially for giving Bob the time of day, because his only concern is to have a “nice and intelligent” conversation instead of facts. Explaining each time he doesn’t care about the argument, more so his “surprise” of the person of color attitude, intelligence and judgement skills regarding “this” topic. And he keeps deflecting or ignoring what the person has to say.
And another thing I agree with these fake account they’ll create in order to disguise themselves with the “rest” of us. I mean is it so excruciating to admit the overwhelming privilege you and the rest of the majority have. You have to put on a mustache and glasses and act like a completely different person just so you don’t admit it? It’s just childish, this is what children do when they can’t handle real hard truths and it’s ALWAYS on a black blog.(I know Abagond has written this blog is for everyone, but the topics are mostly people of color, particularly black) Everytime when the topic is about black people endless trolls and wannabe’s will swarm the place.( I NEVER see the same vice versa) I have yet to see a person of color do the same thing on a “white” blog or any blogs in general when the person is a different race then them, it’s always white. I’m sorry but it’s true. It’s ridiculous what black people have to deal with, we already have to deal/argue with fools denying or down playing our experience, now we have to deal with one’s wearing spinner caps and riding on a tricycle. At the end of the day, just like you said we have to worry about us and stop trying to hold people’s hand.
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Sharina – I was the one who coined the term hoodrat shootings vs wackjob shootings on this thread – you’re confused or addled.
So go ahead and shine further contact with me, but we both know that you got your azz kicked.
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Drosera:
Amen!
Are you a male or female, Drosera? I don’t want to respond to you in affectionate manner, until i know what gender you are. lol
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@ Riverside_Rob
Oh but rob I actually know you coined it but I was using your words. So again if you are confused dear don’t try to push your confusion off on me. See those quotation marks around them. Now you like to pretend like you are smart so tell me what they mean.
“we both know that you got your azz kicked.”—That is what you believed, but we all know what you believe and what is actually true are two different things. Feel free to join the conversation when reality hits.
This coming from the man who still is trying to pin something solesearch said on me as something I said. LOL Still no sign of that quote where I said mass shootings right? ROFL
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@Sondis
I am already sick of these White racist trolls like stupid face to floor who come on here and stir up trouble and cause problems for the rest of us on here. I don’t see why they come on here for? I come on here to talk with my own people how to solve the issue of Black on Black crime. I really want a solution to this issue. It is sad we are silent when a Black man kills another Black man but we are all up in arms when a non Black person kills a Black person. That has to stop. We need to do better as a Community.
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Ok here is the deal rob. I will continue to make an azz of you. If I would have known you enjoyed it so then I would have never agreed to stop. 🙂
So you go ahead and continue with the tactic of trying to win an argument by saying I said something I did not and I will continue to laugh in your face and I make you look stupid. Deal?
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Even though it is best to ignore them…I can’;t resist watching them come up with the most dumbest comebacks ever. Then the idea that if they say something repeatedly then it will be true. When you need a good laugh…..wait for the trolls.
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@Sondis
Oh I’m a female :}
*High five and hug*
At the end of the day, even if whites do not “get the message” it is still powerful and good that we do. That is the only thing that matters.
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@Sharina and Rob whatever your name is
This is directly to Rob whatever your name is: There is a difference between a White wackjob who goes around shooting people and causing mass shootings and a Black man who kills his own people. This White wackjob is probably mentally unstable or maybe someone did something that triggered him to go around killing people. The Black man would have mostly likely killed another person from his own race based on what the person did to him. However I hear more incidents of White wackjobs shooting people and causing problems more than anything. Black on Black crime is a issue that my people need to fix but I do believe that White men are the biggest criminals yet Black men are demonized.
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@ Adeen
Rob has become so good a deflecting that he might find a way not to even address what you just said. I have no doubt that if I sat here or if we all sat here and told him he lost then he would eventually snap. His main concern is the appearance he won something and not so that he learned something.
An idea that has been very blinding to the actual facts of the situation. To think I felt sorry for him, but that is just made me realize that people like rob want you to feel sorry for them so they can simply exploit it. *shrugs*
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And i do believe sondis mentioned this as one of their tactics.
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Adeen,
I know what you’re saying. Its just that these racist white people like Rob and facetofloor, get off on causing chaos, therefore not allowing us to talk to each other about the things that effect our, community.
white people love to talk about OJ Simpson and how he, “got off” i got something for you…. http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2013/08/01/ac-oj-simpson-parole.cnn
Listen to two, “white men” admit to the justice system, failing when it came to OJ being sentenced for 9 years! for simply, yelling and screaming at someone that had his property and didn’t even have the gun, that the other guy had on him. Yet, THE GUY WHO HAD THE GUN IS ALREADY OUT OF JAIL!!
NOW SOMEONE TELL ME OJ WASN’T SETUP!
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Drosera:
gotcha—-> gives a hug \o/
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@ sondis
They have been waiting to get OJ for some time now. All he had to do was breath wrong
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Sharina,
And you know this….man!! Now i really am not and never have been fond of OJ Simpson, being he was a sell out and never did anything for the black community.
I’m just against the justice system, that choose to unfairly convicted him out of some sort of payback.
If they can do that to a black man with money, you know damn well they do that with black men with no money.
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@Sharina
I don’t feel sorry for Rob at all because he is just like a typical White person, delusional, racist and lacks understanding. Plus you had a very good argument here with that troll too. There is a huge difference between a White wackjob murderer, which I see the most because we both know White men are the biggest criminals and a Black person who kills their own people.
@Sondis
Thanks for the link. And how can Whites complain about the justice system? It almost always rules in their favor unless it is the OJ Simpson trial. I did like the video and thank you.
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What can we do as a Community to stop Black on Black crime and solve the issue? We need to unite and stop it.
And I can’t stand OJ sellout Simpson. He married a White woman and didn’t do anything for our Community. I am glad he is in jail. It serves him right for all the White women he has chased!
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You’re welcome, Adeen.
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Adeen, you’re actually arguing my point to Sharina and a lot of others – there is a huge difference between some mentally defective person shooting up schools and theaters, what I call a white wack-job, and a black person who kills their own people – I’ve been trying to get Sharina to understand that – I said it to Solesearch first, when she brought it up, but Sharina is the one who can’t seem to unclench.
There is a big difference between the two and I point it out because it seems that (as Solesearch has done earlier) when there is discussion of black crime a black person will bring up mass shootings as a counter point because mass shootings involve white males in the majority of case. Mass shootings are an anomaly, they are out of the norm, they are as tragic as they are unpredictable. What is not unpredictable, unfortunately, is that in many cases, when large groups of blacks gather, parties, concerts, ball games, even at the mall, there will be a fight and possibly a shooting.
Adeen you are right that black on black crime is an issue your community should fix, and fix it for yourselves – not for whites or any other group. Blacks deserve to be as happy and safe as anyone else period. If I was really the racist monster you and some others say – I would simply shut-up, laugh to myself and send more ammunition to Baltimore – or Birmingham or Cleveland or Detroit or Oakland or Milwaukee or Camden or Newark or any other town where young black guys are busy killing one another.
I’m not going to argue with you, I think your curious and are learning to think for yourself. If you want to have a conversation, I’m open to that. I don’t know how old Sharina is, but I think she’s a fully grown adult and set in her ways. She and I won’t see eye to eye, and we like to pick at each other too much, like an old married couple. I will be much more civil with you, if you’re civil with me.
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Riverside Rob, I didn’t know this was all about azz kicking. I guess that pretty much sums why you come here. Go join a debate team if you are looking for points being one up on someone.
This is why discussion fail because instead of really talking you are looking to be over someone else.
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“King of Trouble
Riverside Rob, I didn’t know this was all about azz kicking. I guess that pretty much sums why you come here. Go join a debate team if you are looking for points being one up on someone.
This is why discussion fail because instead of really talking you are looking to be over someone else.”
King, this is why i refuse to talk to white people on this blog, they are here for the sole purpose, of causing chaos by picking fights and arguments.
I think more people on the blog, need to wise up and ignore them all together, like me. -_-
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“sondis,
King, this is why i refuse to talk to white people on this blog, they are here for the sole purpose, of causing chaos by picking fights and arguments.”
Linda says,
Sondis,
on this point you and I agree but it’s hard to ignore their “shameless” distortion of the issues..
but you’re right, they need to be ignored because most of us “non-white” people know what the reality is on the ground and don’t need white race realist to “introduce” anything to us.
Every one lives in a city where we get the local news, media which just Loves to discuss “black on black /white” or “Hispanic on Hispanic /white” crime… no one escapes hearing about it at the local level.
and this issue has ALWAYS been discussed by both the black and brown communities in America for countless number of years. Unlike white Americans, we didn’t need Trayvon’s murder in order to discuss intra-racial crimes.
that’s why nothing will change in America because white Americans think they can “fool” everyone else… all they are doing is showing the rest of us is how well-meaning white people are “slow and unaware” and racist whites remain “slick but delusional” …
if you read one of Robs previous comments, he sounded like one of thus
Republican “wing-nuts” who have an underground fallout shelter, plenty of Ammo with his guns “locked and loaded” while waiting for the “Big One” — this is what these white race realists live for — fear and instigation in the name of continued white rule.
We all know that white people don’t give a sh’t about black or brown people… they only care about things that affect them… so white Americans hollering about “black on black” crime can take their fake “concern”, their statistics and Shove it…
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Considering hypodescent, wasn’t G.Z. killing poor Trayvon Martin a BoB-crime too?
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@King of Trouble
“Riverside Rob, I didn’t know this was all about azz kicking. I guess that pretty much sums why you come here. Go join a debate team if you are looking for points being one up on someone.
This is why discussion fail because instead of really talking you are looking to be over someone else”
Basically thats what it comes down to when you discuss race issues with whites. It’s not about talking or getting to the roots of the problem, nope it’s about one upping each other and “winning” the debate. As if there is a debate on the persons of color experience and “owning” them.
This is a ploy a lot of undercover racist like use to. Act innocent/well meaning,Propose you want to discuss about race, pretend to grab a chair and listen and then pretend to discuss…and when the drawing gets close….jump in and scream….I “WON!” to the sad/disgruntled negro you “pawned”. Typical
Sharina posts says it best
“An idea that has been very blinding to the actual facts of the situation. To think I felt sorry for him, but that is just made me realize that people like rob want you to feel sorry for them so they can simply exploit it.”
See, Sharina and others just like her, gave Rob a chance, because he “sounded” sincere and meaningful, that he wanted to “understand”.(A lot of undercover racist like to use that terminology) And they did. So much so, Rob felt comfortable that they were acting “so nice” that he let his hair down and let his ignorance show like a typical racist.
-Deflect/Ignore
-Talk down to the person
-Keep bringing up their intelligence/emotions
-Repeat what the person said, BUT in your on own fashion so they “understand”
-Judgement is clouding the discussion.
This happens ALL the time. Minorities always feel a little sympathetic to whites that really want to understand, so they’ll be extra nicer and not go into “too much” discussion into racism. And then the whites will feel comfortable UNTIL they let their ignorance show and ignore what they learned from the person of color. This happens two ways when they show their true colors.
1.They feel the minorities comfort is good enough 2. They gave a “confirmation”
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@Linda
“We all know that white people don’t give a sh’t about black or brown people… they –only care about things that affect them–… so white Americans hollering about “black on black” crime can take their fake “concern”, their statistics and Shove it…”
You are right. Look what was said here:
“Adeen you are right that black on black crime is an issue your community should fix, and fix it for yourselves –not for whites–or any other group. ”
They are too mentally warped to see the contradiction in that statement. Whites get the benefit of American society to ‘fix their problems’ or ‘white-on-white’ crime. Yet, PoC who contributed to that society, and continue to do so, are denied that same resources to ‘fix their problems’. No we have to do that all ourselves, in isolation from the country we live in, because you know, the ‘We’re all American’ mantra suddenly dies when it comes to these things.
Another poster said:
“Crime committed by black people is treated as a black problem and left for us to contend with *SANS the resources of our country and full power of our politicians*.”
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Sondis, you’ve been following my every post, who are you kidding about ignoring me.
King, Sharina and I have a special kind of chemistry, like anti-matter. The woman gets excited and forgets what she was trying to say, but she says a lot and I like to argue with her as much as she likes to argue with me.
I come here to hear what you have to say. I feel comfortable enough to join the discussion, often times being a dissenting voice. I have a couple of black friends, both retired. We meet up on our morning walks. We have really good conversations, sometimes they get heated, but we’re still friends. We all agree that it’s unique for white and black to be so candid in our discussions and we think it’s healthy. Our neighbors honk as they drive their kids to school, I think they’re interested to see the interchange – we don’t patronize each other, we’re grown men talking about serious things, we don’t have to prove anything to each other so we’re just honest.
So yeah, I guess I do come here to pick fights and arguments. I want to hear what you have to say, what do you think. I don’t think any one of you speaks for all of you, and you know I don’t speak for all white-kind. Some of you want this to be your own private echo chamber where you can bleat about the injustice of it all. Then keep ignoring me. But when you ignore facetofloor and call him yt, it’s laughable. I went to his site, he’s no sock puppet, he’s black, he’s Muslim and he doesn’t agree with your pity party. He doesn’t fit your mold so you tried to chase him away with rudeness. I hope to see him more often.
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I would like to say to ANY minorities, that when you discuss about racism. DO NOT be afraid to discuss it or “clean it up” when it’s to whites. This happens all the time when race baiting happens. Some ignoramus will spout something racist and a minority will come up AND before they say anything they have 2 CHOICES.( We all have this in our minds)
1.Confront the racist behavior, but be called out for emphasizing on race. And out casted since your minority.
OR
2.Ignore the racist behavior and watch as it being modeled as “ever day” thing. And since they aren’t any people speaking up it’s “okay”.
This is how internalized racism, especially affect us, because we care more about not hurting “their” feelings that we’ll just let them trudge down on ours with no remorse.
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Dang I thought I was in the “Race baiter” topic. lol.
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@Riverside_Bob
“I think we’re going to fight, and it won’t be like the 1860′s civil war – this time it will be like Kosovo and Sarajevo, neighbor on neighbor – much more like the Tulsa Wall Street invasion (which I learned about here thank you). I think that hate and resentment built up on both sides will be released and we’ll see recreations of the Rwandan massacres played out around the country. I know there a lot of whites gearing up for exactly that scenario. I believe that black groups are preparing likewise, and the education of students like Adeen continues to increase here resentment of whites. I’m sure she will be manning the barricades in the coming fight. I think this is going to get ugly.”
LOL, the only White people who think a war is coming are the survivalist paranoia types itching to spill some blood. If we were so malicious, wouldn’t we have killed you all in 1859, or during the Jim Crow era, or before the Civil Rights era. The only people rearing for interracial violence en masse are White people; it’s a part of your culture, it’s what made you White in the first place.
“I care about violent crime in my neighborhood, city, state and country. My children will live here and my grandchildren if I’m so lucky. Why is that black people don’t care about violent crime enough to stop engaging in it? Hell most blacks don’t even acknowledge it – until a non-black kills black, then there are political points to score, maybe even a cash settlement.”
We do care, we talk about it all the time. On our radio shows, in our barbershops, at dinner, at church, at school. We protest, we march, we establish community centers, and do what we can with the little money, power, capital, and hope we have left as a people. White America doesn’t know this, because White America doesn’t care.
“OK – I’ll explain this, because it really isn’t clear to you. White crime in America is crime in America – whites are (or have been for the most part) the majority of people here. So any time we’re talking about crime, I usually think of my breed as the criminals (you won’t believe that, but it true). Black americans are a subset of the population, and crime attributed to blacks is called black crime because it’s committed by blacks.”
And this is precisely why you don’t care; we are not considered Just Americans, even though we have more claim to this country in one strand of kinky hair than any 20th century immigrant offspring have in their entire bodies.
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lol Drosera, got your posts mixed up!
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D:
You just broke it down! Very well said… high five on that one, my brotha \o
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@Rob whatever you say you
I disagree with your beliefs that you posted on here but I respect your beliefs. Trust me, I wouldn’t be nasty to you the way I was with Face to Floor.
@Sondis
Honestly I am so sick of White trolls coming on here and distracting our discussion on Black on Black crime. It gets on my nerves. I wish Abagond was more careful when allowing these trolls to comment on here.
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Why can’t we have a good discussion on here without White trolls coming on here and distracting us?
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^ rofl because that Is what they do. That is their purpose the best thing we can do is ignore them, they will get tired of not having attention and talking to themselves like the crazy person they are. lol
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“Riverside_Bob,
So yeah, I guess I do come here to pick fights and arguments. I want to hear what you have to say, what do you think. I don’t think any one of you speaks for all of you, and you know I don’t speak for all white-kind. Some of you want this to be your own private echo chamber where you can bleat about the injustice of it all. Then keep ignoring me. But when you ignore facetofloor and call him yt, it’s laughable”
Linda says,
Rob, glad that you can come to this blog for your own amusement and can get some kicks and giggles out of it.
As for facetofloor, on his blog, he sounds like an “objective” black Muslim trying to keep “truth” at the forefront…
but then, what the h’ll happened when he got here to this blog!
no matter the colour of his skin, he might have meant well but he came out swinging the wrong way — by saying things that countless “race realists” have said before and just plain out sounding like an Uncle Tom /Uncle Abdul
I’ll admit that he did say “truths” that would have been better received if he didn’t bring in Statistics (a guaranteed turn-off)
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2013/07/29/the-black-on-black-crime-argument/#comment-184308
unfortunately, on the Internet, he used a tactic that is associated with white race “realists” and unbeknownst to him, put everyone’s backs up immediately.
As I’m sure you’ve notice, people here are not monolithic because when discussing issues that are relevant to black or brown people (Tommy Sotomayor) voices can get loud and dissenting
I do “get” what facetofloor was trying to do — tough love and all that — but as we all know, Uncle Abduls get no love in American society —
just like how you white people get annoyed and call other white people “sell outs” or “wiggers / n-lovers” if they imitate or “defend” black people.
You do have a way with words, Rob:
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2013/07/29/the-black-on-black-crime-argument/#comment-184627
“Rick Marauder
Rude maybe, but I’m not patronising you. I think you’re a sell out coward that snuggles up to blacks in the hope they’ll kill you last. Your country is being overrun by immigrants – asylum seekers- you call them, displacing your native population for government benefits and spitting on your culture while you sanctimoniously sit here and claim English whites are racist brutes.
Totenham burns because some punk shoots at police and is ventilated for his efforts – good riddance to mr duggan, yet your story is how blacks are the downtroddden.
You deserve what you’ve got in store.”
I bet your fall-out shelter is well-stocked, Rob 🙂
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Trolls love statistics. Statistically, immigrants make a net economic contribution to the UK. I have no problem with the migrants Bob refers to. They are a help to my country, not a burden.
Nazis love misinformation as much now as they did in the early 20th C.
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They are right that war is coming. This is the deceptive calm before the storm. Anyone who has ‘awakened’ at this time knows this.
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You may not believe it now but the black Yahoshua Abbadon will appear for the end of the evil ones.
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@Kiwi:
“Immigrants are only a “problem” when they’re not white. Just like how black-on-black crime is only a “problem” when the murderer is not black. White society has a strange obsession with race. All the while, they pretend nothing’s wrong.”
I agree that is mostly the attitude. However, in the UK hostility is fairly widespread against white Eastern European immigrants as well. Our problem is that we have right-wing gutter tabloids (Daily Mail, Express) who publish blatant lies that are believed by unthinking bigots-in-waiting.
The truth is that without black and Asian immigrants our health service and care industries would collapse. The truth is that, as I said above, migrants make a net economic contribution to my country’s economy.
When Bob said to me, “Your country is being overrun by immigrants – asylum seekers- you call them, displacing your native population for government benefits and spitting on your culture […]” he demonstrates what I see every day – the mindless consumption and regurgitation of disingenuous scum journalism.
So much of racism is based on gullible people believing BS. For example, when people are told the TRUTH about the effect migrants have on the UK economy, opposition to immigration reduces significantly.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/jun/08/immigration-opposition-falls-benefits-survey
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@Kiwi
Ilive in the UK too, and I agree entirely with you.
I also agree that there is a proper obsession with every shade of colour in countries such as the Uk or the USA. I will never say that France, Italy or Spain are not racist, but the colour obsession is not there, and you are not forever being asked on forms to define if you are Asian, Black, black-caribbean, blablabla. I know they mean well and want to monitor that the racial mix is fair, but this is not how it feels to non-whites, and that’s not just me saying that!!
A lot of my Asian friends said they were more welcome in France than in the UK, and that was a shock to them because they had always seen the UK as the heart of the Commonwealth (having said that, I live in a very diverse neighbourhood and we all get on very well. Which is very useful as we just got flooded-again).
And to finish off facetofloor: Europe is not dying, its culture is not at an end. If he knew anything about history, he would know that all cultures go through changes. Like all living organisms: you change or you die. His Muslim culture is doing that too and it is painful too. And by the way…Fundamentalist Muslims are not exactly possessed by solidarity for their Muslim brothers and sisters: if you look at the figures they mostly kill Muslims. This is regardless of such massive events as the Twin Towers (where there were also Muslims by the way) as the number of people who died in the Twin Towers have been topped by the number of people who have been killed in terrorism attacks in Faghanistan, Irak and Pakistan so far this year. Not to mention the constant attacks on Muslim sects such as the Ahmadi, who we never hear about because they are peace loving and tolerant.
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@Anne
Didn’t realise you were in the UK. Hello, neighbour! 🙂
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@Rick
Yep, we keep the discussion alive while our US buddies are asleep. But more than this, I think this blog allows us to understand the pain of the non-white communities (plural is important I think) in the USA. Things are not easy here, but I think that, as they always do, the US are just on a different scale.
Must go out now and will be away until the 27th.
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Yes, Kiwi, there is something really a bit screwy there.
If we live in a post-racial society, why this obsession about race? It is white people who bring up the “black-on-black crime argument” in the same breath that they claim that the post-racial system is now fair and just.
It is white people who are the most obsessed with race, not blacks.
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@ Riverside_Rob
“The woman gets excited and forgets what she was trying to say”—You are nothing to get excited for. So I will count this as another one of your delusional beliefs about what you think is happening and what is happening. I don’t try to say anything I say it and do not forget, because your trick (and yes this is a trick or game) is to confuse so you can yell I win. Deflect from the realization that you got your azz handed to you and now you want to save face.
The difference between you and facetofloor is at this moment he/she at least has some level of integrity and dignity when discussing on these boards. You do not. You are delusional and when you do something wrong and you know it is wrong you try ever so hard to excuse it. So no I don’t feel the need to respect you in anyway. You don’t deserve it. You deserve the exact treatment you set the tone for and that is exactly what you will get.
“I don’t know how old Sharina is, but I think she’s a fully grown adult and set in her ways.”—Furthermore you don’t know what I believe. Your whole basis has been to tell me what I believe. Over and Over again trying to tell me I said something and refusing to acknowledge you are wrong.
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@Jefe
I could not agree with you more. It’s like they are running out of reasons why they should be superior: it is not brains, it is not art, it is not….so they take colour which is the one thing which1-Has no relevance 2-Cannot be changed unless you get vitiligo (makes you white), or have a kidney condition (makes you dark), and then they oppress economically, which has masses of consequences… and Bob’s your uncle: proven defective. Pathetic.
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Every white troll I have got into arguments with do the exact same thing. Try and try and try to make me believe something based on The idea they think I should. Why is that?
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@ Sharina: Go girl!
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@ Adeen
I know you are young and learning but I am going to caution you when it comes to rob. I was always told “the proof is in the pudding” and your pudding with Rob is his posts. His posts alone tell you what type of person he really is. If you don’t believe him then you believe what he thinks you believe and that is no way to have a discussion. On top of that he said just that he likes to argue.
In regards to people being mental then look up the different levels of mental instability. They are not just cut and dry killing yourself and killing yourself does not mean you are crazy. The media paints the idea that if you are white and you do bad things then you are crazy, but you have to ask yourself…when 9/11 happened…were those terrorist given the same crazy treatment? Look up Andre Crawford a black serial killer. Does he sound sane? Did he get the crazy treatment? Just go look up these things instead of letting people tell you. The thing a bout “well to do” white men like rob is they are in the art of brainwashing you to believe one thing. Do the research.
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@Sharina
Oh I could hug you! You have posted what I meant to write, and probably would not have done as well, absolutely to the point.
Many years ago, there was a great article in Ebony “In my next life, I want to be a white male” and the columnist went on to describe all the havoc white males had created…Satire and irony are powerful weapons, and I grasped the situation then. It hit me.
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@ Riverside_Rob
“I’ve been trying to get Sharina to understand that”—-And was this happening before or after or in-between the times you were telling me what I believe or trying to tell me I brought it up? So now you are acknowledging (even though I said it already) that solesearch brought in mass shootings and that it is you and you alone doing the comparison of the two.
I can’t “unclench” as you say because you spent several post telling me I brought it up. I have been going back and forth with you pointing out that I did not and you have continued saying I did. Now in an effort to sway Adeen you acknowledge it and pretend like “its her and not me.” so more proof of your bs then
@ Adeen
More proof in the pudding. These comments alone point to a delusion on his part of just a frank liar to sway the vulnerable.
@ Everyone else
Oh yea. This has become prime proof and everything you were saying. My eyes are officially wide open.
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@ annef1
Thank you. I hear others in here mention it Sondis especially, but it is weird when you actually truly see it happening. I am just shocked anyone would go that far and I need to quit even talking to rob because I am getting sucked into this.
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@ Rick
I know I may be wrong in saying this, but stat nuts hold on to them because they don’t know any better. Usually it is all they have to “win” an argument and will use it to the fullest.
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Here is another thought to add….since mass shooters tend to kill themselves…what would the crime rate of whites be had they gone to jail?
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@ Sharina
One of my problems with stats is that they are presented, in isolation, as proofs. Figures have a backstory. Even when actual numbers are relatively accurate, without context – several layers deep – they are of VERY limited value.
How many times have we all seen, in various online forums, arguments consisting of two people throwing numbers at each other?
A worthwhile description of reality doesn’t just address “how many”, it also examines “why”.
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@ Rick
“A worthwhile description of reality doesn’t just address “how many”, it also examines “why”.”—I agree
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@ Adeen
“There is a difference between a White wackjob who goes around shooting people and causing mass shootings and a Black man who kills his own people”—What is the big difference because truthfully they both kill people? This idea that one is crazy so it is more understanding is just media bs, And the insanity defense is a defense none the less.
Do you know James Holmes? He is the man who walked into the Aurora Theater and shot it up. This man (like others) did not kill himself afterwards, but has still been painted as crazy.
In the case of Marc Lépine there was some interesting notes in regards to his situation…”Lépine’s actions have been variously ascribed to psychiatric diagnoses such as personality disorder, psychosis, or attachment disorder, or societal factors such as poverty, isolation, powerlessness, and violence in the media.” How many black killers could fit into this, yet are not put into it?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_L%C3%A9pine
Just my observation but I think solesearch brought up a good point in it. One I had to research.
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Sharina writes:
“In the case of Marc Lépine there was some interesting notes in regards to his situation…”Lépine’s actions have been variously ascribed to psychiatric diagnoses such as personality disorder, psychosis, or attachment disorder, or societal factors such as poverty, isolation, powerlessness, and violence in the media.” How many black killers could fit into this, yet are not put into it?”
Exactly.
However, according to white racists (as well as their Negro lapdogs), white mass murders and white serial killers do what they do because they are absolutely “nuts”, they are, in essence, extreme anomalies to the intrinsically Good nature of white people.
Blacks killers, on the other hand, do what they do because they are Black (AKA “thugs”), and, as such. they are simply acting out the intrinsically violent and criminal nature of their race. So, with this being the case, Blacks don’t get to play the crazy card in the same way that whites (and Asians, and, to a lesser extent, Latinos) do.
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I really shouldn’t have done so much of the back and forth the other day. It’s Ramadan, and i should’ve used my time more wisely. Anyway, i do want to leave this discussion (at least for now) with a quote that summarizes my sentiment about the black condition:
“The black man in the ghettoes, for instance, has to start self-correcting his own material, moral, and spiritual defects and evils. The black man needs to start his own program to get rid of drunkenness, drug addiction, and prostitution. THE BLACK MAN IN AMERICA HAS TO LIFT UP HIS OWN SENSE OF VALUES.”
And that is not from some sort of boot lickin’ Uncle Tom, Ruckus, or “Abdul.” That quote is from none other than…
—MALCOLM X
Being critical of the black condition and understanding that it cannot improve until people are serious about improving their moral condition, has nothing to do with hating a people (or oneself) because of their physical features.
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Great point Fiamma, are you saying that blacks should get to play the crazy card as often as whites or more? would you say the majority of black killers (of strangers) are mentally off or is it a temporary thing like impulse control. Are you suggesting that it could it be that black communities are subject to some environmental factor that leads to higher levels of mental illness (lead paint for example)?
I think most killings, white or black occur between aquaintances and are lumped into the crimes of passion category – killing of strangers, whether it’s during anothe crime or not, deserves to treated separately.
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@sondis…Apologize for the late reply, but yesterday was my birthday and I got caught up in the festivities! I saw what happened to that 60 year-old man getting, as Abagond calls them, his “Phantom Negro Weapon” (cigarettes, in this case) out of his own damned car. Lawd, I’m so tired of this sh*t!
“You would think they would keep a low profile…”
I was just getting ready to say what Linda just said to qwerty, only not nearly as well (Linda, thank you so much Sister, for that wonderful critique on “what Really is wrong with white America!” It provides so much for younguns like Adeen, who are searching for themselves in this quagmire of a country)!
There’s no reason for them to keep a low profile, nobody’s making them! And then, when they have to have a press conference to explain their continued, racist behavior, they trot out Black Cecil (just like Obama), to parrot the company line. {smdh} I don’t know when Black folk like them will realize they’re merely tools of white supremacy. They continue the madness for the glitz and the glamor of “position” (and dolla’ bills of course), seemingly not knowing, or either not caring that they will get the brunt of the blame when things fall apart! I’ve o nothing for the Bill Cosby of today. Calling for “greater responsibility” from their lofty perches remedies not a damned thing.
Again, for the most part, I agree with you, engaging those whose only purpose is to assault my people, is something I’m more and more inclined not to do, because I know they don’t give two sh*ts about Black folk. But, as Linda also said, sometimes you just gotta go there! 🙂
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@facetofloor
Please go through these two links.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/criminal-justice/is-there-racial-bias-in-stand-your-ground-laws/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/07/22/white-people-believe-the-justice-system-is-color-blind-black-people-really-dont/
I don’t think anyone here objects to self-correction (though I don’t see how self-correction for the black community is relevant to a discussion about the freaking MURDER of a teenage boy. And self-correction is something that applies to everyone. I don’t see why it’s always self-correction for the black community and not for the white community. Why, I don’t remember the last time I saw the phrase ‘white community’). This post by Abagond is SPECIFICALLY about deflection, and you haven’t posted anything so far that invalidates his statements.
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Deb, why didn’t you say it was your birthday, yesterday? You little ragamuffin!
Happy belated birthday, how old are you by the way?
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@sondis…It just didn’t seem like the time or place given the heated discussions. But now that I think about it, I should have, cuz I’ve got “Family” here too! Probably old enough to be your Mama! 🙂 I’m 57 now, and so very grateful I’m not hittin’ wood (as in a coffin!) when I get up and stretch in the morning! Thanks man, I appreciate it…
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Happy belated B-day Ms Deb. U 57, well i bet u look good, [black don’t crack] lol. I enjoy ur commentary and ur gathered wisdom from those 57 yrs shows in ur comments. 🙂
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“facetofloor
“The black man in the ghettoes, for instance, has to start self-correcting his own material, moral, and spiritual defects and evils. The black man needs to start his own program to get rid of drunkenness, drug addiction, and prostitution. THE BLACK MAN IN AMERICA HAS TO LIFT UP HIS OWN SENSE OF VALUES
And that is not from some sort of boot lickin’ Uncle Tom, Ruckus, or “Abdul.” That quote is from none other than —MALCOLM X”
Linda says,
Facetofloor, I don’t think you would get an argument from Anyone about the fact that black America needs to start cleaning up their house and uplifting themselves — that has been a topic Heavily discussed on this board
your intentions might have been good but your delivery was piss-poor
you basically came out saying the Exact same words that many white racists have said on this blog— and for that, I called you an “Uncle Tom / Uncle Abdul” …because you were parroting white racists almost “word for word”
you certainly didn’t make it clear that you were being inspirational … you sounded like a typical white person, who has no empathy or sympathy with issues that affect black America or any other non-white American group.
The way Malcolm X spoke, he basically said: “here is the problem and here is the path we need to take to fix this” … and yes, it starts with you (black people) — inspirational words.
whereas you came out with “numbers” and used negative connotations with your numbers:
who wants to be told “hey, you suck and I have the numbers to prove it” that’s not productive_ numbers are just a tool (that can also be manipulated)_ not the Absolutely truth that defines an issue.
I am not black American either but I know, work with, and socialize with many who are doing things in the real world to try and “uplift” their other black people everyday… so for me, your words came out “the wrong way”….and I am a person who also tries to see the “truth” and try not to sugarcoat the realities of life because “it is, what it is” — good or bad — nothing in this world is done or created in a vacuum.
Malcolm X’s words/ message reverberated to many black and brown people Outside of America too because he came at “truth” in a positive light that many people could feel and gain strength from — because he made it clear that he understood their frustration and pain (something you were not able to convey while trying to bring forth the “truth”)
Words are not harmless as people may think… words have killed because they can move mobs or just one person to act.
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You’re welcome, Deb…anything for the birthday girl 🙂
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@mstoogood4yall.. Thank you dear Sister! And if I do say so myself, I look pretty damned good, and I promise you, based on my experience at least — “Black don’t crack! 🙂 Here I am (well, at the end anyway), on my first trip to West Africa in 2010: http://youtu.be/_hQXjDxxMPU (sondis, you opened this door!).
“I enjoy ur commentary and ur gathered wisdom from those 57 yrs shows in ur comments.”
“Enjoy” backatcha Sister! “Hearing” the commentary of young, Black folk who get it does something for my old behind — and you’re one of them young, Black folk! You sound like a Sister who says, “I’m not, for one damned minute more, fallin’ for any of your White Supremacist Capitalist Bullsh*t!” If I’m right, I ‘preciate that in ya!
@Linda…Thank you. “You Give Good Love” via your critical thinking — do keep sharing, and making people think…
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Facetothefloor, have a great Ramadan. I still believe you quote and use knowledge without ever having really understood what is behind them. You know the surface but not the depth. If you really understood things using Malcolm X and that time period is your own down fall. I suggest you read up on the Black Panthers.
The progression they had and how basically one sublet of their organization got them painted as Racist, and Anti-government. The government as latter found out was very interested in breaking the group well before that. Most of the blacks I know do not support a habit, have never shot a gun, the are just working or travelling.
Still I think you should follow this advice, “Don’t Be a Menace to South Central While Drinking your Juice in the Hood”! We are not stereotypes. We have had a lot of similar experiences while being in this country. Being followed, being harassed, being profiled, I even had a cop call me boy once he was only 24 and I was 22. I did go done to the station told the cops I had made a recording and the other copy had gone to friends. I got a lot of apologies and talk about how he wasn’t a racist he had black relatives, blah, blah, blah. Yet, he still couldn’t give a clear reason he pulled me over. Just and of course there was a mysterious black person in a silver Mitsubishi like mine who had caused trouble. In the middle of that small town in Illinois the likely hood of that story being true is….
How does one pull himself up when his base is totally destroyed or owned by another? Plenty of blacks are in upper level of government and business. They are famous actors, musicians, professors, ministers, and yet people focus on the poorest of the community and say look see. A disproportion amount of blacks are poor. Yet any financial advisor will tell you this, if your put money into your accounts in your twenties you will be further ahead then if you put a lot of money in when you are in your thirties. Now lets see who has been given opportunities all through out this countries history. Even now we see barriers for blacks to obtain these so called opportunities. Real estate drops, black banks are bought up, and even then you doing Jazz, Rap, Hip Hop, Soul, and R&B look who is really making the money. Yet lets say a black person does Country Music, Heavy Metal, or even Pop. You would still need the Majority for them to become big.
I say this as someone who travels a lot. Reading about a culture barely gets you scratch. I don’t know where you are from, maybe I have been there or not but I don’t go telling people how they must be. I hear the same crap said to the Aborignal people of Australia, I hear up here how lazy the Native Americans are because the Government gives them everything. I hear a lot times that Muslims follow blindly into bent philosophies. I hear that Asians are weak and submissive.
In reality I have meet so many people far away from these lazy assessments.
I was taught that one should focus his mind on charity, focus his mind on health, and focus his mind on how to make an enemy a friend.
However, I don’t feel you really understand this culture. You have thought hey someone is following me to my beloved families house. They could want to murder us all, you have never probably heard the only reason he got the job is because of affirmative action. You have never heard Boy, I want to see you license because someone in a car like yours…, you have been blinded and that is ok but being blind and not looking for ways to see surely cannot be good.
When the basic of law have been taken away you can never feel safe. Your home will never be your home if the basic rules are corrupted in a manner which belittles your basic breath.
Enjoy Ramadan, watch out for all the afternoon foods I hear many Muslim have increased a belt size during Ramadan. The evening meals must be very delicious. I still think you should focus on empathy, communication, and being less condescending. However, that is just me.
King of Trouble
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I knew it i knew u look good for ur age. i shall add it to the black don’t crack wall of fame lmbao.
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Deb,
Those are great pictures! who is that beautiful woman in those pictures with you, near the end? is that you’re daughter? is she single? * raises eyes browse up and down, quickly! *_*
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[…] sense, funny because of its cartoonishness. But, Abagond thinks it’s deadly serious. In one previous post, Abagond accused others of trying to “determine reality.” In his own way by arrogating […]
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@Sharina
Everyone has heard about the shooting at the Aurora theater shooting! White men are the biggest criminals on the planet! I live in a mostly White area and I am more scared of White men walking in the dark more than anything. White men are the biggest criminals.
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Brothawolf
Your favorite piggy backer is back. LOL
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Adeen, arm yourself – pepper spray, push knive, hand-gun, whatever you can. Be vigilant and don’t be afraid to defend yourself – better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. You have every right to be safe in you person.
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above all, fight back –
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/07/30/woman-rushed-to-hospital-after-being-stabbed-multiple-times-in-queens/
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@ Face
Jay Smooth just came out with an excellent five-minute video on why your kind of scolding at a time of such a glaring miscarriage of justice is a) not helpful and b) more about YOUR shame (assuming you are black) than about what is currently going on:
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmdlMlRdt7Y)
Have a good Ramadan.
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@ Deb
Happy birthday!
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@mstoogood4yall…Thank you much, Sister. 🙂 I can’t take any credit though, it’s the good genes I’ve been given along with just trying to love my Black self. I rarely do the make-up thing (too lazy, especially these days — plus, when you wash all that off, you still end up with you, so might as well like the who looking back atcha in the mirror!).
@sondis…Thanks, it’s a beautiful place. Isn’t she lovely? No, she’s not my daughter but she could be (she’s the same age as my youngest son)! She’s a friend of my friend who built a Black History Center in The Gambia (how I got to West Africa in the first place). He arranged for her to spend a day with me and take me around when I first got there. And yes, she is single! LOL
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@abagond…Thank you so much!
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^ yea I don’t wear makup either, maybe just some lip gloss and perfume but that’s it. idk if its just me but when I go to youtube and see some of them women putting on their faces they look like a completely different person with the makeup on. And sometimes it seems when they scrub the makeup off they scrub some of they beauty off too. My mom looks young too sometimes ppl think we sisters and on rare occasions think we are twins rofl.
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“Deb,
Thanks, it’s a beautiful place. Isn’t she lovely? No, she’s not my daughter but she could be (she’s the same age as my youngest son)! She’s a friend of my friend who built a Black History Center in The Gambia (how I got to West Africa in the first place). He arranged for her to spend a day with me and take me around when I first got there. And yes, she is single! LOL”
Linda says,
If you don’t mind or when you have time, can you go on the “back to Africa”
and give us your impression of Gambia,
and what are your thoughts on the feasibility of black Americans moving to Africa to live.
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2013/07/24/back-to-africa/
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@Face to the floor
You again? Honestly you are just another trashy troll with no life commenting to stir up trouble and distract the conversation. Honestly I hate trashy trolls like you!
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@qwerty…“…and black culture also play a role.”
Honestly, what exactly is “Black culture” to you? I respectfully disagree with Sharina because I DO believe in Black “culture,” I just know it’s not anything like what you and others here are intimating (lawless, irresponsible, lacking guidance, etc., etc.). It is a “culture” born of African beginnings, of a “distance, deliberately created” as Baldwin wrote. One with which white folk would prefer we not connect — ever.
While we are, in fact, Americans, we, like all the other ethnicities that make up this “tossed salad” we call America (I don’t subscribe to the “melting pot” thing, it disallows all the unique “flavors” we all bring to the table in favor of some weird, overrated, hegemonic melding), come from a “culture,” with the knowledge to have built this country — brick/stone masons, blacksmiths, carpenters, builders of roads to include Benjamin Banneker, to whom the nation’s capital should forever be indebted (http://www.biography.com/people/benjamin-banneker-9198038) and etc., etc., etc. One of the most famous blacksmiths in this country was born and raised in my hometown (http://www.thehistorymakers.com/biography/philip-simmons-41 — as you can see from the link, he had no lack of “guidance”). We come from a “culture” with the gendered knowledge of choosing seeds, planting, harvesting and processing rice, by hand which made the white planter class in the South rich beyond measure (during the slave trade, they sought out female, West African slaves in particular, because of that knowledge)! We come from a “culture” of spirituality from which both, Judaism and Christianity liberally stole, to fashion their “organized religions” without giving credit, as usual (look up the “42 Negative Confessions”). We come from a “culture” of amazing, educational brilliance— it was, after all, the Dogon tribe of West Africa that first charted Sirius, WITHOUT all the technological equipment white folk later created. Read about the Songhay Empire of Timbuktu in Mali (and how now, Western powers-that-be (read “white folk,” have fomented rebellion to the point that important educational treasures had to be spirited away and hidden for posterity). We come from a “culture” of beautiful music and rhythms (plenty of which have been appropriated by whites to again, make them filthy rich).
I feel blessed to have been able to go to West Africa on three occasions so far (I’ll be going back in a few months), where I found beautiful wrought iron work still being done in the way Mr. Simmons learned how to do it and where I was able to spend some time in the rice fields with women there, who still grow and process rice in the same way our ancestors did in the South (I smuggled some stalks of fresh-cut rice back in my suitcase and proudly display it in my home in answer and homage to Malcolm’s, “Who Are you?!”). It gave my life a direction and perspective I’d never found in the Western world.
@annef1…“Also, I think that a lot of people might hate their lives, but it is the devil they know, they have sort of come to terms with the notion they have no future (that makes me cry, all those bright kids I know!)”
(Sharina, I hear you about the “tactics,” but I’m going in anyway!) — annef1, I think you mean well, but as a teacher, particularly where you teach, I think you should re-examine your own beliefs (based on your expressed realities). Have you ever thought that Western education, designed to exalt Western sensibilities, leaves out the multitudinous accomplishments of Black “culture” about which Black children should know, in order to positively cement their “being” in the world? I doubt it – it’s not something many teachers today (Black teachers included) bother with. Our history has been totally whitewashed in favor of a white supremacist lie that continues to this day! With my own sons, I found their trip to Africa made them walk a little taller. As they learned about the lie first-hand, my oldest exclaimed in a video I made when we were there — “Don’t believe the hype.” He meant the lie white folk tell you about Africa – and yourselves. Food for thought?
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@annef1…About your Lincoln views, let me just say this: http://lets-be-clear.blogspot.com/2012/08/lincoln-resolute-white-supremacist.html He didn’t “free the slaves” because he thought it was right, he did it as a matter of military and political strategy. That is all…
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@Linda…“If you don’t mind or when you have time, can you go on the “back to Africa” and give us your impression of Gambia, and what are your thoughts on the feasibility of black Americans moving to Africa to live.”
Absolutely! I’ll do it later today after I finish this post I’m currently woking on for my blog. It’s something I’ve been seriously considering and about which I’ve been gathering information.
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@abagond…really liked that Jay Smooth video — posted it with a h/t to you on my blog.
@mstoogood4yall…“My mom looks young too sometimes ppl think we sisters and on rare occasions think we are twins”
What a wonderful testament not only to her beauty, but to her daughter’s respect and admiration for the mirror she provides!
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@ Abagond
You said to Facetofloor:
“Jay Smooth just came out with an excellent five-minute video on why your kind of scolding at a time of such a glaring miscarriage of justice is a) not helpful and b) more about YOUR shame (assuming you are black) than about what is currently going on:
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmdlMlRdt7Y)”
Superb video which summed up all Face’s condescension perfectly.
*****************************************************************
Fiamma said:
?!
Here you are you using me again. Wtf.
ENOUGH. Fiamma, stop it.
I don’t know why you are riding this to perpetuate something which did not happen.
“Discredit your stance …”
Get over it.
Your argument was simply poor on the subject you refer to. End of.
It was not personal, so, please, stop it and find other ways to get you, and your point across, instead of using me.
Thanks.
Arguments are “won” or “lost” whether or not a logical fallacy is employed at any stage of the discussion; just because they are used to illustrate or isolate a point, it doesn’t mean that the basis of the argument is weak or untrue.
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@ Deb, a happy belated! 😀
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@ Deb
When you put black culture in those terms I see where you are coming from.
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@Bulanik…Thank you so much! 🙂
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@Sharina…I’m glad I could offer that, Sis! 🙂 I get so tired of the fascination with the whole, “First Black whatever,” as if we didn’t do a damned thing before being brought to America. We were thoroughly furnished and fully equipped from the get — that’s why they needed us! Our humanity made us good targets for their savagery and manipulation and still does it seems.
Which is why I think we’ve got to shift the paradigm of how we think about ourselves, especially for those coming after us. We’ve got to make sure they know our history and know that we are, and always have been a whole people. There’s no excuse, for us not to do that for them (particularly now!), because having that sense of self, of place, of belonging, along with good critical thinking skills are all empowering, as well as absolutely essential for their survival — which is why I love Abagond’s blog. We always get all of that here!
Look, I’m still learning because I’m playing catch-up! I just don’t want the younguns to have to wait this long to shed the “white gaze” and live the fullness of who they most certainly are.
Peace…
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@sondis…Regardiing the 60 yea-old {smdh}: http://www.salon.com/2013/08/02/sheriff_fl_cops_who_shot_unarmed_black_man_followed_protocol/?source=newsletter
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@ Deb
Thanjs for sharing. I enjoy learning from everyone on here and the blog opens the door for that.
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Excuse my grammical errors. On the road (not the driver)
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@Sharina..You’re welcome, I feel the same way — glad you put that, “not the driver” part on there! 🙂
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@facetothefloor…Just read this interesting and related piece over on FAIR: “A Media Microscope on Islam-Linked Violence/Selective reporting misrepresents Muslims as prone to killing” — http://fair.org/extra-online-articles/a-media-microscope-on-islam-linked-violence/
It’s a combination of links showing how plenty of Americans believe the same things about Muslims as you spewed here about Black folk. The only difference is, the authors fairly debunked the BS with some critical thinking — a courtesy you chose not to extend here. When I think of all the vitriol you graced us with here, all that kept running through my head was Martin Niemöller’s poem, “First they came…” — http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007392 I hope at some point, you will, as Baldwin wrote, “do your first works over” and revisit your beliefs about the people you so unfairly tore apart here — not for us, for you.
Peace…
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Bulanik writes:
“Here you are you using me again. Wtf.
ENOUGH. Fiamma, stop it.
I don’t know why you are riding this to perpetuate something which did not happen.
“Discredit your stance …”
Get over it.
– – –
Bulanik, as, apparently, it is time for both of us to get over it, I’m offering a sincere apology to you for past grievances. The fault for all of it was entirely my own.
The two of us can now go from this point on by being either cordial to one another or simply by ignoring each other’s comments — whichever is most comfortable for you. Oh, and welcome back! 😀
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sign this black people, it takes 2 minutes:
https://www.change.org/petitions/change-for-trayvon-stand-your-ground-laws-must-be-reviewed#share
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@Linda…I’ve answered your questions as best I can on the”Back to Africa” link you provided. Thoughts?
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People are sooo gullible they believe whatever the media wants them to believe (puppets). DO YOUR RESEARCH!
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@Sharina/Solesearch…interesting article on a Black man’s insanity defense ignored — again, IN FLORIDA: http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/08/05/florida-to-execute-a-paranoid-schizophrenic/?nl=opinion&emc=edit_ty_20130806&_r=0
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Thanks for the link, Deb. ^_^
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Wow that is crazy. So black ppl we can’t be insane, we can be bad, murderous, thieves, thugs, but we can’t be mentally ill, whites claim that for themselves smh.
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People who don’t get math citing statistics.
Here’s the statistic: HALF of the murders are committed by perpetrators from ONE EIGHTH of the population.
Now, more than 90% of that half is black murderers seeking out black victims. This means that a black person is murdered by a black person every three hours. Yet, perversely, black people want to discuss the one black person killed every 28 hours by a police officer. Why? It’s reasonable to conclude that the police statistically save black lives by killing that one per 28 hours.
You don’t have to respect people who don’t respect themselves. You really don’t. And while all of this black on black violence happens within a tenth of the black community, the denialism and obfuscation and clownish displays of deflection and dishonesty circulating among the other 90% leads any reasonable observer to conclude that black people in general just don’t care. Why should anyone else?
Blacks should be grateful that the fact that – I’ll say it again – HALF of the murders are perpetrated by ONE EIGHTH of the population hasn’t developed into a discussion of how much better this country might be without black people. Especially when you consider that black on white murder is more than twice as common as white on black murder.
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@floydmerit
“People who don’t get math citing statistics.”—never hurts to have another one. Come right on in. 🙂
Oh and your deflection is quite nice as well.
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@Deb
Sorry it took me so long to respond to your link. That is a shame.
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Hey Family!
@sondis…You’re welcome.
@mstoogood4yall…“Wow that is crazy”
I’m tellin’ you!
@Sharina…no problem, I’ve been out-of-pocket for a minute myself. 🙂 But you’re right, a shame it is. Glen Ford over at BAR voices EXACTLY the feelings that have been welling up inside of me in this on-point piece:
http://blackagendareport.com/content/stand-your-ground-and-beyond-whole-criminal-justice-system-arrayed-against-blacks
I swear I’ve had enough…
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Deb:
Did you watch that YouTube video of Dr. Umar Johnson, talking about black boys being targeted in the education system for failure, so they can go straight from school to prison?
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@facetofloor
I trust your Eid/Bajram was a good one, and that your Ramadan was indeed kareem.
There are a number of points I wish to raise with you, but shall do so when I am calmer. I have just read some comments above, which do not concern your own, and I need time to think before I answer you.
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Abagond, why delete my comment to Kiwi?
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@ Bulanik
It was not a civil comment. Your use of the F-word alone gave me the right to kill it.
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@ abagond
But other commenters use the f-word. We’ve seen it many times.
And many other commenters are not always civil. We’ve seen that many times too.
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@ abagond
To add: since civility is an important criterion to between commenters, I hope that that civility is extended to me.
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[…] The black-on-black crime argument (abagond.wordpress.com) […]
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[…] The black-on-black crime argument […]
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I lived in Compton for ten years,…then I moved to Rossmoor,……This was the first time I really felt safe…..HUGE DIFFERENCE IN LIFE STYLES,…..Why is that?
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@ Both sides of the fence.
Are you seriously asking why there is a difference in lifestyle between a poor inner city, minority community, and a developed, suburban retirement community? Are you really this pathetically naive?
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Hello King,
This is simply a rhetorical and very real question that deserves a viable answer! Rossmoor was not a retirement community at that time. I was shocked at the lack of crime and violence, and the level of respect that I experienced of those white neighborhoods was a game changer for me. I now live in a white community that is relatively poor with low income and yet violence seems unheard of here with relatively no crime to speak of…so again, “Why is that”??? Discrimination,… of course I’ve experienced it,….who hasn’t?
This pains me to say, but I have not seen this level of kindness or respect in any Black community ever,….and I’ve been to many!!!!! I believe there is a degree of credibility for whites to possess the notion that Black communities are more violent and crime ridden,… sadly, this puzzles me! We can bury our heads or deflect and blame others for only so long but I find it embarrassing and tiresome. It’s my opinion that this level of thinking is “naive”…….Your thoughts.
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@ Both sides of the fence.
Rossmoor was not a retirement community has been a retirement community for some time now. What year did you move there? (I’ll wait)
Where do you live now? I don’t need your street address or cross streets, just name the town or city (I’ll wait)
It all depends on which Black communities you have been to and what the history there is. But basically, you are making the error of comparing a very troubled neighborhood (which Compton has been for decades now) with neighborhoods like Rossmoor, that were specifically created to maintain a peaceful existence for retirees. The fact that you would even make such a comparison speaks much to your misunderstanding of the deeper issues involved.
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@King
It’s so funny how “Both sides” talks about he’s never been to any safe respectable black communities, and uses Compton as his example.
If he drove a few miles west he could find Baldwin Hills, View Park, Ladera Heights, etc. Ladera Heights, for example, is 75% black (blacker than Compton, I might add), but has very low “black-on-black” crime, and a higher median household income than Beverly Hills.
I wonder why “Both sides” has never heard of this black community since it’s so close to Compton, yet he supposedly has been to “many” other black communities?
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In my experience some black communities have high crime rates, are even extremely violent, while others are peaceful and quiet. So I do not see crime, etc, as a “black” thing, either genetically or even sociologically. From what I have seen, the violence is mostly driven by the drug trade. Bad policing and domestic violence also play a part.
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“In my experience some black communities have high crime rates, are even extremely violent, while others are peaceful and quiet”—I can agree with that, but out of all the black communities I have lived in through my life I have never experienced an issue with crime or fear of one being committed against me.
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@abagond
“From what I have seen, the violence is mostly driven by the drug trade. ”
At least as far as murders are concerned. Most “black-on-black” homicides involve males in the drug trade (turf wars and money disputes). In areas where the open-air drug trade is broken up, we see huge drops in murders. Case in point: NYC or Washington, DC.
It’s largely about economics and, I agree, the rest is domestic. Statistics show a direct relationship between the number of thefts and burglaries and economic growth. Domestic violence is IMO generally unpreventable.
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King, I have No “misunderstanding of the deeper issues”! It seems (perhaps) you state this because I don’t share the same sentiment as you. I must say that when I do address this question, I catch flak for “going to the other side”……..That stated,….. the question still remains!
Did you read and understand that “I now live in a white community that is relatively poor with low income and violence seems unheard of here with relatively no crime to speak of”??? The attitude of dissension I receive of not buying into the collective mind set, harkens back to the statement I made earlier,…. basically “blaming the issues on someone or something else” other than what most of us are too afraid to realize, confront (and) or truly answer ourselves.
Incidentally, I have not made any error at all in my comparison of communities. Compton was settled in the late 1860’s, it obviously did not start out as a “troubled neighborhood” some how it turned out that way! Rossmoor was never designed as a “retirement community”,…(maybe) you are thinking of Leisure world which is a couple of miles away. Rossmoor was a planned community for families, plain and simple! Current home prices have kept younger families from purchasing now, thus creating an older community as a result.
Are you aware of any Black communities where there is virtually no crime as what is seen in most white communities large or small? I would love to go there,..I would see that as a poster for good and a model for which this stereotype may be eradicated! The cold truth is that there are more Black Men doing harm to other Black Men and it’s not up to some other race to stop it,… this senseless violence just needs to end and what race or community can do that better?
Acceptance and responsibility begins within, this is all that I’m trying to convey. Our Country is not perfect but it is the best one on earth? Here is a thought, A Country is defined not by the number of those that flee, but by the number of those (of whom) wish to enter!
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“Are you aware of any Black communities where there is virtually no crime as what is seen in most white communities large or small?”—-Not to but in but I live in one. Loud music has been the only real problem here….unless you want to count the neighbors that refuse to keep their lawn clean.
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I will just say majority black because there is a mixture here, but from what I have seen of other black communities it is about the same.
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“basically “blaming the issues on someone or something else” other than what most of us are too afraid to realize, confront (and) or truly answer ourselves.”—It has all become a collective circle. While you see blacks as blaming xyz….whites do the same. I just don’t understand why one gets to point the finger with thumbs up and the other gets shamed for it.
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@ Both sides of the fence.
Sorry for the many posts. There is also a level of personal responsibility. The problem I see with your view and others that have views as yours is that you want all black people to take responsibility for those blacks who make the choice not to do what people feel is right.
If you are a black person then the question becomes what have you done to fix this problem? I can’t make every black person in the world do what I want them to do. I can take focus on but so many (which is usually my family unit). I support protests that speak against violence of any kind.
Another problem is this “we are Americans” speech while at the same time separating the black community as part of the American community. We are one and as I see it if one has a problem then we all have a problem.
Now if we want to continue to separate the communities in America that is fine, but that means that black people need to stop relying on business of other communities to function (money in black businesses etc). …just a thought.
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@Both sides
“Are you aware of any Black communities where there is virtually no crime as what is seen in most white communities large or small?”
There are many black communities with low crime. Many.
And, after a quick search using neighborhoodscout.com I was able to find at least one of which I’m aware that is SAFER THAN Rossmoor (which is lumped with Seal Beach). Rossmoor is considered to be safer than just 40% of communities in America. But Accokeek, MD (64% black) is safer than 48% and safer than Rossmoor.
Rossmoor had several burglaries yesterday btw. Better lock your door!
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Correct. I believe what I believe because I find evidence that confirms to my satisfaction, that it is right. Therefore, if you hold a diametrically oppositional opinion, then I will consider it to be wrong. That is called a belief in objective truth. Two people holding the exact opposite opinion cannot both be right. One is correct and the other is having a misunderstanding.
Unless you tell us what city or town you live in, we cannot verify what you are saying. resw77 has already pointed out crimes in Rossmoor that you were probably completely unaware were happening. It is very likely that the same thing is happening right under your m=nose wherever you live now. Just because you are unaware of the crimes does not mean that they do not exist.
But, even if we took you at your word, without checking the real world facts [Police crime reports] what would it prove? You moved from a serious crime pocket in Compton to another neighborhood with far less crime that happens to be White. SO what? There are a of of factors that could make the difference. For example, suburban and rural areas boast much lower crime rates than do compacted urban areas. But you also have to take into account the mean age of the population, and how much employment is available, and many other factors. It doesn’t just come down to skin color.
Why should you go if you like it where you are? I say, if you’ve found a place where you’re happy, stay and enjoy it. But since you ask…
Albany, Georgia 71% Black
Baldwin Hills, California 78.5%
Runyon Hieghts in Yonkers N.Y.
Pill Hill, Chicago
Hyde Park, Chicago
I really could go quite a bit further if I really tried… have you ever tried? Or have you just accepted that Compton is the height and breadth of Black Culture in America?
I agree with the sentiment, I’m just saying to understand the history behind it.
By all means, improvement should be on all of our minds (Black or White).
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@Abagond You appeases satan!
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Ha-ha, that is PG county, Md. I know exactly where that is.
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@sondis…Apologize for the delay in replying, been trying to finish some writing. No, I’ve not seen Dr. Johnson’s video, I choose not to listen to him after having watched some of his others.
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I support black on black crime. the more the better
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never youmind
Let me guess, you’re white, right?
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@ Never you mind.
That’s simply negative and hateful,… Why would you say something so stupid and ridiculous? Can you really imagine more violence in the world??? Do you really want that??? You know you don’t and it’s not funny! How would you like someone saying that to you about your race? You can hide,.. or step up and answer! Please be truthful!
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It is sad to hear never youmind say that.
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So many people seem to find it difficult envisioning themselves.
in the shoes of anyone whom they view as “Other”.
Trayvon Martin, Yusuf Hawkins, James Byrd, Jr et al.- AND – Vincent Chin, Reginald Denny, Yankel Rosenbaum, as well as the unknown white male tourist who was beaten. stripped and robbed by a crowd of Blacks, et al. are / were individuals who had just as much right to their own lives and / or well-being as anyone else — and they are ALL me.
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@ Rebeca From Brazil: Comment deleted because you are banned.
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@ Abagond
I realize this is your site and you excersize complete discretion,…..but I am curious why Rebeca was banned and her statement eliminated? (I read it via my email) Although what she conveyed was harsh for some to hear, it doesn’t take away from the fact that she raised certain and (perhaps) valid points…. Those issues could have been easily addressed here and I think many would have chimed in. Isnt’ that why you created this in the first place? just curious.
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The individual in question used sock puppets which is an automatic ban.
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@ Both Sides
Rebeca used seven different sock puppets. Such a person is not only instantly banned when discovered according to my comment policy, but is clearly not interested in honest discussion.
She was not just Rebeca but also:
Abbas,
Mr Satan,
Rosalinda,
Victor,
João Adécio,
Andros flamestrike,
abbasilvernight300
I banned her here:
https://abagond.wordpress.com/comment-policy/#comment-190314
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@ Abagond
Oh,…..I didn’t realize that she (or he) has been doing that,…btw, I’ve never heard of a sock puppet. Thanks for the reply.
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@ Both Sides
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2010/03/18/new-rule-no-sock-puppets/
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Reblogged this on Black Supremacy Love and Unity.
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@neveryoumind
Why did you write what you did, and what are you doing here?
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Overt racists, like the KKK and Aryan BH, are saying: “Yes, N#@*ers keep killing yourselves because we don’t have to kill you anymore [even though we still do].” Conservative racists, like Bill O’Reilly and Sean Hannity, are saying: “Why are there so much black-on-black crime in our country [as though I really give a damn].” These white conservative clowns are not interested in black people’s problems. They use black-on-black crime to cover their racism. White conservatives love to mention the black-on-black killings in Chicago, but let’s keep it one-hundred the black killings in Chicago were strictly confined to the ignorant gang and drug madness. Compton (in L.A. county) had the same problem 10 years ago but the only difference in the CPT (Compton) was that the enormous killings were ignited by brown-on-black street crime. My 18-year-old innocent cousin was a victim of this heated brown-on-black crime. As well known to the people of southern California it was the incarcerated Mexican Mafia giving the green light to their Latino Surenos gangs to kill black gangbangers (Crips and Bloods) and ordinary black people, too. (Unfortunately, a few innocent blacks were targeted on the freeways of L.A.). As expected, Bill O’Reilly, Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh didn’t advertise the brown-on-black crime in Compton. These conservative racists pick their battles and, of course, black-on-black crime is the most significant one.
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@ King
As a native of Los Angeles and a friendly reminder, you forgot Los Angeles’ thriving, predominant black neighborhood districts like:
Ladera Heighs – 71% African-American (Upper-middle class)
View Park-Windsor Hills – 86% African-American (Upper-middle class)
Leimert Park – 79% African-American (Middle-class)
Note: View Park-Windsor Hills is both one of the wealthiest, and one the richest primarily African-American, areas in the United States.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/View_Park-Windsor_Hills,_California
White racists will NEVER pit themselves or any other ethnic group against black people in the L.A. districts that I just mentioned.
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@ Michael
It is those types of thriving neighborhoods that white racist don’t want people to know about. It completely goes against their black hood theories.
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That is why I laugh at people like sb. Guy is so slow he uses an article as a source and still manages to try to pedal miss information about crime rates. Never met someone so desperate.
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Exactly!
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@Deb
Hi There
Don’t know if you’ll get to see this: saw your posts very belatedly but they did give me food for thought, and I kind of agree. Except: even if we do not acccept the White/Western values and it is invaluable for kids to get back some pride (and I try my darnedest to instill this into my students, because having more pride and confidence helps them operate with said values anyway) they still have to function in this society (I am curently in the UK). Nobody is an island.
Thank you for your stimulating post!
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Michael Cooper,
Your wiki link to Park-Windsor hills includes this:
According to the 2010 United States Census, View Park-Windsor Hills had a median household income of $77,475, with 8.1% of the population living below the federal poverty.
You wrote this:
Note: View Park-Windsor Hills is both one of the wealthiest, and one the richest primarily African-American, areas in the United States.
If you believe a median household income of $77,475 is evidence of wealth, you’re sadly uninformed. At best, the numbers suggest middle-class standing. Moreover, the population density of the Park-Windsor Hills area is high and the neighborhood is small. It’s population is around 11,000. A drop in the bucket. A rounding error.
You wrote:
White racists will NEVER pit themselves or any other ethnic group against black people in the L.A. districts that I just mentioned.
You’re out of touch. It’s more likely whites would point to these examples and say, “well a few have managed to get away from the problems.”
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sharina, you wrote:
try to pedal miss information about crime rates.
The correct word is “peddle”. And “miss information” has no connection to “misinformation.”
In your world, the phrase you wrote seems to be about transporting you on a bicycle.
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@ sb32199
In todays world, people are often typing on phones, iPads, and other devices. These devices auto correct errors to known words and phrases before you can even correct them yourself. However, these computer ‘best guesses’ are not always right. I think most of us are not constantly correcting each other’s posts with the understanding that this happens in a fast format when there is not always the opportunity of meticulous proofreading.
If you can understand what’ was meant by the poster, then there is no need of correcting the spell check. You are not scoring any points.
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@sb31299
Amazing how you can correct my auto-correct, but can’t manage to correct all that misinformation you regularly post online. Another sign of how desperate you are. 🙂
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[…] reminds me. The black-on-black crime argument | Abagond But the author also has a good point. The black-on-black crime argument | […]
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[…] Pic of race-baiters, Al Sharpton and Jessie Jackson. They are consistent on one thing. They don’t emphasis the black on black crime which is far more prominent than white on black and black on white crime in America. Pic attribution – https://abagond.wordpress.com/2013/07/29/the-black-on-black-crime-argument/ […]
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[…] The black-on-black crime argument […]
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[…] higher than black-on-white, so don’t get it twisted. Don’t believe me? Check out this blog. I know it’s not a news article, but they seem to have their facts in […]
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[…] me put this black folks can’t demand equal rights because of black on black crime meme to rest once and for all. Black folks don’t march when black folks kill each other for the […]
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[…] 29-07-2013 https://abagond.wordpress.com/2013/07/29/the-black-on-black-crime-argument/ […]
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[…] Here is a good deconstruction of what racists like Trump, and the white supremacists he quotes and panders to are trying to do from another Blogger. And this Tim Wise piece that I use a from a few years ago destroying the racist conservative meme (Read it all at this link): […]
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You know something. I was looking for other ways to counter this argument when it comes to BLM and decided to do some research on the crime rate among police officers. Surprise, surprise! No such data has been compiled in any existing research. Still looking.
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@cleonette
Police are notorious domestic batterers. Assaults and other crimes committed by off duty cops are usually swept under the rug. That would be a big chunk of stats if they were compiled.
This article was written a while ago, but it might help you get started:
http://www.purpleberets.org/violence_police_families.html/
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cleonette:
You won’t find it. white people are masters of concealing their dirt.
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http://filmingcops.com/
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Shame about the white trolls, and I see that some of them are still playing those stat games to make blacks seem like a bloodthirsty problem.
Thing is, whites love talking about the dreaded specter of black crime, but they’re pretty damned cloak-and-dagger when it comes to the issue of what to do about it.
Or better still, what to do about the blacks themselves.
Except for the usual “tough on crime” platitudes, you won’t hear white Americans offer any input on how to deal with the scourge of black crime. But actions speak louder than words and the actions of George Zimmerman speak directly to what whites really want to do with unruly blacks. Hence the silent, tacit approval of police officers shooting and killing blacks for offenses real and imagined.
Deep down, white America kicks itself each and every day for not doing to the black man what it effectively did with the native man. But through a combination of socioeconomic corralling (being priced out of neighborhoods and having existing, affordable ones plowed under), judicious policing (slave patrols reborn), destruction of family bonds (black men missing from families due to incarceration and/or death) and the encouragement of self-loathing, self-defeating pathologies, white Americans are doing a pretty good job of taking care of the “black problem.”
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Funny how they refer to their own pathologies as ‘sickness’ such as rampant opiate addictions.
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[…] against the work of #BlackLivesMatter and other protests against interracial violence. This argument is built upon the ugly stereotype of black pathological violence, and […]
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[…] Black-on-Black crime […]
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Thanksgiving is ordinarilly the first day of the new year. On this day, Americans are thankful for having an opportunity to celebrate the birth of the nation, as well as the abundant harvest that was produced by the people of The US For the duration of thanksgiving holiday, incorporate go from one place to another to shop. Some shops remain open until the early hours of thanksgiving day while others stay open till midnight. Large malls also participate in black Friday promotions, delivering their valued clientele with amazing shopping deals.
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