I never thought I would be writing a part three so soon, but when a post gets more than 300 comments, then it is time.
To review:
- In part one I said that it boiled down to racism on the part of white men: they do not want black children.
- In part two I said it is not quite that simple: way before marriage it is women who apply race to dating decisions, not men. Men are dogs and will go for any halfway good-looking woman they think they have a chance with. A Columbia University study on speed dating supports this view.
Now for part three: A big thing that keeps coming up in the comments is how white men approach black women. Often they wait for a black woman to show some clear sign of interest before they ask her out! It seems like a cowardly excuse. Man up and just ask her!
Dalyn Montgomery, also known as brohammas, has an interesting take on this at his blog, Pages From My Notebook. He is a white American man who lives in Philadelphia. He dated in the 1990s and, in the end, married a black woman.
He says white men have three main ways of approaching women:
- The scuzz ball: He expresses his interest directly. No games. If he gets shot down, he moves on. What his approach lacks in quality he makes up in quantity. Sooner or later some woman will say yes. He wants sex, not a girlfriend.
- The “normal” guy: He plays a cat-and-mouse game with a woman to show his interest, but not too directly or strongly: he does not want to seem like a scuzz ball – or appear too desperate (even if he is). That is why in “Swingers” (1996) they wait three days before they call a girl back.
- The “friends” guy: He becomes your friend, but he hopes to take it to another level later on, hoping that by then he has gained your trust, etc. This is how Duckie failed to get Molly Ringwald in “Pretty in Pink” (1986).
Most white men try each of these at some point in their lives. Some white men follow none of them: Montgomery calls them the curve balls.
Now he adds to all this that white people are taught that black people hate them.
So with all that in mind, here is how each approach views black women:
- The scuzz ball: Black women, especially young ones, are easy and I need to get laid.
- The normal guy: If she is extremely hot or if I have something to prove, then I will go after her, otherwise going after white women is way more promising.
- The friends guy: What? Me with a black woman? Come on. (They lack confidence even with women of their own race.)
How do black women see this? Scuzz balls have the wrong sort of interest, of course, while the other two, from what I can tell, come off as having too little interest.
See also:
Ive had this debate with friends so many times and I see a great deal of merit here. The only thing Id add is that the way black men tend to approach black women is with the ‘scuzz ball’ approach (that is, if the model still holds for black men in the same way). White women are generally not accustomed to being approached on the street the way black women have been since we were pre-teens. Thanks to this, we often have a reflex of rejection that white women dont, and I think that difference also goes a long way towards intimidating white men who arent used to being shot down right away and then needing to continue pursuing us. White men tend to give women an invitation to pursue them, while black men actually do the pursuing. I’m not sure why….
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I’m the scuzz ball type.
Even in this day and age of feminism “roll eyes.” Men are still expected to ask out a girl and pay for her.
The reason why I’m a “scuzz ball” is because I have very little time for “c***teasers” and women’s games
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Interesting analysis. I agree with much of it (recognizing that there are myriad individual exceptions), but I’d modify it slightly for the “normal guy” group based on the comment in Agabond’s post: “white people are taught that black people hate them.” Because of this, WM (and I’m limiting my comment here to the “normal guy” group) tend to perhaps be quicker to perceive rejection even where there may be none.
I would thus differ with Agabond’s post in that the “normal guy’s” decision to pursue a BW isn’t motivated by her being exceptionally hot (keeping in mind that guys are motivated in general by a hot woman — but that this applies equally regardless of ethnicity) or having something to prove. More often, it’s motivated by the perceived absence of negative signals, or the perceived presence of positive signals.
The issue is one of communication and perception. Often, WM and BW speak different flirtation dialects. A WM needs to learn a BW’s flirtation dialect. My experience as a single man was generally some version of the “normal guy” approach. In my 20’s and 30’s I dated a fair number of BW, which means that there were some growing pains learning the dialect. I did experience both acceptance and rejection from BW, including sometimes rejection based solely on the fact that I was white (though not nearly as often as many WM seem to think would be the case).
In the end, I found the “normal guy” approach to be successful with BW. I do think that I learned to increase my level of directness just a little bit. However, I need to emphasize, for the benefit of some posters who have whined about rejection from BW, either actual, perceived or feared, that the step-up was very minor, just enough to make it clear, when appropriate, that I was interested. In all other respects, I stuck to the basics: be honest and forthright; be genuinely interested; be a gentleman; be able to determine when to make a move, or not; and be confident enough to make the move if/when the time is right.
BW are just like all women — ornery, irrational, unreasonable, and impossible to understand; and yet at the same time delicious and intoxicating and impossible to ignore or stay away from. As a man, I’ve found peace with the fact that some women will be attracted to me and others won’t, and I will almost never be able to understand why. The best I can do is to figure out who is attracted and go with that.
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By the way, I have been happily married to a BW for 14 years now, and we have two beautiful golden children for whom I would lay down my life and die.
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yeah some guys think bw are too “lowly,” on the totem pole too and bw are “beneath,”them there’s a certain kind of white guy who has that mindset too…not all though, just the racist one are like that, but they don’t know they’re racist
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Don’t these models of approching women apply to all men, regardless of ethnicity?
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” Black women, especially young ones, are easy and I need to get laid. ” i can attest to the older wm approaching bw in their twenties personally…trust me it happens
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there is also the school of thought that men (of any race) aren’t turned on by the “strong Black woman” title. these men are looking for maybe a softer, feminine sort of persona.
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Thinking about it, I do need to look at white men and slightly smile for them to make an overture. Black men seem to be quicker to make an overture without the look and smile, while white men need some sign of interest or friendliness.
White men seem willing to marry once intimacy is established and a solid relationship is there if they are liberal enough to openly date a black woman in the first place.
Is it sometimes the black woman hesitating over the permanent bond because of history, fear, racism?
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This is it, abagond!
“Don’t these models of approaching women apply to all men, regardless of ethnicity?”
Of course, but don’t you think the distribution is different?
With black guys it’s usually obvious within 30 minutes if he’s interested whereas with white guys you can know them for weeks, months, or even YEARS and not have a clue.
I knew my husband for 3 years and saw him on a monthly basis at parties and such and I wasn’t even sure if he noticed that I was female. It wasn’t even the “friend” routine, it was more like the “acquaintance” routine: “Hi! How are you? How’s work? Did you ever finish that project you were working on?” Blah, blah, blah.
Here’s how that wonderful technique works:
Look anywhere but at her face (you can glance but don’t stare). Gaze at the floor if you need to. Wave intermittently at your friends. Don’t invade her personal space. Don’t get her a drink. Don’t mention her appearance. Don’t dance with her. Whatever you do, DON’T TOUCH HER. Not even her arm, back, or hand. And when you leave say something vague like, “It was nice talking to you. See you around.”
AAAAAGH! White guys sometimes had me tearing my hair out. After one of these conversations a white female friend of mine would invariably rush over and gush about how “He’s so into you!” Umm… yeah. It was so obvious. That’s why he spent 4 hours talking to my hairline.
With black guys it’s usually like, “Hi, haven’t seen you here before. I would have remembered somebody that beautiful.” Quick, simple, to the point. No, he doesn’t want to adopt me, he wants to date me.
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LOL. So what are the signs that he is so into you? Apparently your white girlfriends could tell.
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LOL. Yeah, they had to teach me. It’s subtle to the point of ridiculous.
Actually, with Bavarian guys, it turns out that the major sign is a long conversation. I never noticed it (I’m oblivious sometimes) but at most German parties and get-togethers the men separate from the women. Sometimes they go into a different room or leave the entire building and go stand outside in a huddle.
If he doesn’t go with his friends (and instead just waves at them across the room) then it’s because he’s interested in you. If he walked across the room to introduce himself then he finds you attractive. If he stays and talks to you for longer than an hour than he’s interested. And if he says, “See you around.” it means that he WANTS to see you around. Otherwise he’ll just say, “Bye”.
That is all. I’m sure you’re stunned by the romance of it all. LOL!
There’s actually a saying, “A German man shows his interest through his presence.” In other words: if he’s there, he’s interested.
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Is this a German thing or have you seen it in America too?
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The Germans are the absolute worst. Really, it’s a wonder they haven’t died out already. They’re famous across Europe for it. On the upside, they’re also famous for fidelity.
Most German women would consider white American men to be forward in comparison. But not by much. Americans are more generous with compliments once they have been introduced to you.
Most of the BW/WM couples I know are people who had been introduced through a mutual acquaintances or met through work, school, church, etc. I think it’s rare for there to be a “hook up” between strangers.
But that’s just my experience…
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“Men are dogs and will go for any halfway good-looking woman they think they have a chance with.”
I had to laugh at that because it’s true. Really, the way guys go on about women’s appearance online you’d think they had females falling all over them. When in reality a lot of them (the single ones, at least) are gagging for it.
Marriage is a different matter but even if a WM says that, in theory, he wouldn’t marry a BW, once he’s sleeping with her he’s liable to change his mind. After all, a bird in the hand…
A lot depends on how the woman plays it.
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where’s azrazyel?
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Black & German:
The Finns, I think, are most famous for being socially withdrawn. A popular joke is that you can tell an extroverted Finn because he stares at your shoes rather than his own.
I spent some time in Germany as an exchange student back in the 1970’s and was surprised at how forward and direct the German girls were toward guys. Extremely direct, as in asking me out and making the first move and such. At the time I reckoned it was because I was the exchange student, the “exotic” other. But perhaps they’re conditioned to be that way because their men are so withdrawn.
What you say about WM and the “acquaintance” thing is certainly true with respect to BW. Many WM are sensitive to the notion of acting respectfully toward BW. To this end, they won’t cross a line that involves flirtation or expression of romantic or sexual interest, even if such interest exists. It’s not about fear of rejection. It’s about some version of PC that makes it taboo to go to a place that might invoke the sexuality or feminine attraction of a BW.
A similar ethic infuses the relationship with somebody that a WM knows via a workplace. WM are sensitive about not seeming like they’re coming on to a female co-worker.
That said, once at work a very hot BW began working at a desk near mine. I was then in my 20’s and more reckless about my employment. I saw her at the fax machine sending a fax. I went over and changed the resolution setting from “Normal” to “Superfine,” telling her that it was the appropriate setting for her. She said, “That’s corny but I’ll accept it.” Next thing you know we were going out.
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Blanc2: Cute. That was smooth.
Yes, German women are pretty aggressive. They have to be or they’d die celibate.
And, it’s true. The Finns I’ve met have been very withdrawn. Not unfriendly just very umm…. neutral. Although, speaking of Scandinavians, a previous boss of mine was Swedish and he seemed almost asexual until he started hitting the Absolute and then he morphed into Super Party Man. It was funny, sort of like Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde.
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Most white men prefer white women; most black women prefer black men. Hence, the small numbers of black women and white men together. Apparently, for whatever reason, there is more attraction between black men and white women.
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Not Really Says:
Most white men prefer white women; most black women prefer black men. Hence, the small numbers of black women and white men together. Apparently, for whatever reason, there is more attraction between black men and white women.
laromana Says:
If there had NEVER been HISTORICAL ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE cultivated in American culture (that had a MAJOR NEGATIVE INFLUENCE on the way WM view BW and vice-versa), then MAYBE this GENRALIZATION MIGHT be true but, outside of that, it’s IMPOSSIBLE to know, FOR SURE, what level of attraction WM and BW ACTUALLY have for each other.
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Well, all you have to do is look around or check out the stats and it bears it out. If wm and bw really wanted to get together, they would. However, that hasn’t happened.
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To:
Often they wait for a black woman to show some clear sign of interest before they ask her out! It seems like a cowardly excuse. Man up and just ask her!
I wouldn’t say it’s cowardly.. it’s basically how white women and white men operate e.g. the rules of the game. If you are in a (white) community where the women are in communication with each other and you are a guy who starts asking women out without signals, you’ll get labeled and somewhat ostracized quickly. Sure there are guys who can get away with it (especially if it’s just a one night hook up and the woman’s friends don’t know who and how she hooked up…) but if you are looking to seriously date someone, it is just considered bad form for a white guy to ask a white woman out without her dropping some hints.
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peanut Says:
where’s azrazyel?
Peanut I’m here. I’ve been super busy lately. And I received an email about abagond’s new topic.
Another good one abagond thanks.
I’ll comment more on this later.
Not Really Says:
Most white men prefer white women; most black women prefer black men. Hence, the small numbers of black women and white men together. Apparently, for whatever reason, there is more attraction between black men and white women.
Your actually right. In America it is this way at least. Of course it depends on the regional factors as well.
Overall, I would agree with Not Really’s statement here. I see many more bm/ww couples than, well I’ve said before I have never seen a bw/wm couple.
It could be where I live. I dunno the real reason why this appears to be this way. Maybe white men are too loyal to their race? Maybe black women are too loyal to theirs?
Black men and white women know how to go about what they want without fear of any shape or form. I would definitely say they put white men and black women to shame when it comes to not being p^ssies about it.
Maybe way more black men interested in white women, and white women interested in black men. Compared to white men interested in black women, and black women interested in white men.
I mean, you are probably 20:1 chance more likely to see a bm/ww in everyday public than the former.
I state my assessments in America, Ohio to be exact, even further Northeast Ohio only. I have to true perception on other areas, I speak for where I live and what I’ve seen.
Thanks for your time.
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I am a little confused. If black men are so forward, and you need to drop little hints to date a white woman, why are there so many black men/white women couples?
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Hey, I used to live in Northeastern ohio too (Akron.) You are right on the button-there were practically zero bw and wm pairings. I live in Seattle now, but there aren’t all that many here either, though it would seem to be a better area for that.
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Not Really:
HA! Wow. Such a small world.
I live in Akron Ohio and have all my life.
What were the chances of that?
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I am a little confused. If black men are so forward, and you need to drop little hints to date a white woman, why are there so many black men/white women couples?
Mutual appreciation society and I think white women change the rules when it comes to men of different races. I would say the same thing about Asian women and white guys.
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Montgomery says that black men often do come off seeming like scuzz balls to white women. If they have any luck at all it will be with the wrong sort of woman.
On the other hand he has also seen black men apply the scuzz ball approach without seeming like scuzz balls somehow.
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Uncle Milton & Blanc2:
Interesting analysis. Thanks.
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As a non-black man who has mostly dated black women, this subject has been discussed in depth in some of my relationships.
The main reasons seem to be firstly, the approach, white men tend to trip themselves up before they have started. The standard white guy line is ‘i’ve never been with a bg b4, im curious’. or trying to ‘relate’ to her by talking about stereotypical things that black people are meant to like to form some common ground. or the full on ‘i love black women’ to the point of fetish yet wear it proudly on thier sleeves and tell every bw they meet. Either way, the ones that do approach do not treat her as an individual female.
secondly, most white people hold subconsciously racist views, that over time reveal themselves. Since im not black, it makes sense that some of the women i’ve dated are open minded to other races. more than a few times i’ve heard about guys who have negative views about blacks in relationships with bw as they are still attracted. this is not always a solely lust ‘good enough to fuck, but not good enough…’ scenario. these issues will usually disable a relationship before the point of marriage.
I guess this fits with what your saying but just my perspective on things.
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Azrazyel
“I see many more bm/ww couples than, well I’ve said before I have never seen a bw/wm couple.
It could be where I live.”
It’s where you live.
Isn’t that interesting? I actually didn’t even realize that BW/WM was considered so “rare” until I checked out the marriage statistics, which shocked me. Over here (outside Baltimore) it’s pretty common. I see at least one couple like that every time I leave the house. Sometimes 3 or 4. More than BM/WW even.
We don’t even get second glances around here. Even on my own street, the couple living next door is a BW/WM and so is the one diagonally across the street. And we’re all married with kids and living in an upper-middle class neighborhood. It’s strange but there’s the three of us and then there’s the guy down the street with the Confederate flag flying in his front yard. Maybe we’re the reason he’s put up the flag?
Although I’ve not noticed any hostility from WM towards BW/WM couples. It’s more towards BM/WW. Isn’t that typical male?
But the funniest thing was that I went to a pediatric ophthalmologist near here (about a year ago but I’ll never forget it) and when I was waiting to be seen I looked around the room and realized that of the 3 women with kids there, 2 where BW with obviously mixed-race children. We all just sat there staring at each other and smiling. Nobody said anything but I know we were all thinking: What are the chances of that?
There are A LOT of mixed-race children here. Maybe 1 out of 15, although I’m including other mixed-race pairings, as well, not just BW/WM but also AW/WM, BM/WW, etc. But if you go down closer to Baltimore or DC it’s even more common.
And it’s common enough in the military. I’m an army brat.
Like I said, it still surprises me that it’s NOT common everywhere. I wonder why that is? Perhaps it’s a question of socio-economic parity? History?
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What I HAVE noticed is that interracial marriage is contagious; the racists are right about that. Once one person in the family marries outside of their race it seems to be some sort of catalyst; it normalizes it. I can see it on both sides of my family.
When my white mother and black father got married both families where HORRIFIED. Really, they threatened to disown them, refused to see their spouse, etc. The circus went on for months. When grandkids (we) arrived everything settled down.
Then my mother’s niece became engaged to a black guy and my father’s niece became engaged to a white one. The families threw a fit AGAIN and my parents got a lot of angry “You guys started this craziness!” phone calls. Then grandkids arrived and everything settled down.
And now it’s endemic in both families. When my mother first started attending my father’s family reunions she was the only white person there. Now it’s about 25% white. It’s hard to tell which of the white-looking people are an in-law or a blood relative anymore. Although that’s also because some of my grandfather’s white relatives have started attending.
Maybe that’s what happened around here. I think you just reach a critical mass in a neighborhood, family, community, and then the numbers start climbing faster and faster.
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Oh, my. Two really long posts again. Sorry.
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FS,
You are right. Most white men shoot themselves in the foot right from the start. I have found from my experiences most black women are not into head games. They appreciate a man that is to the point, but not rude. A few months ago my wife and I were out to dinner. After dinner we went to the bar for a drink. Where we sat there were a couple of chairs between my wife and a beautiful young black girl. Not long after we sat down the girl was approached by a young white man. He started a conversation with the very lines you mentioned. Also, I heard him say two or three times,”I,m not a racist”. I don’t know who he was trying to convince, the young girl or himself. The girl walked away without saying a word, and he was standing there with that deer in the headlight look.
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Ugh. That’s gruesome. What are those guys thinking?
Anyway, I thought I’d mention (again) that it’s not a genetic predisposition for WM to not find BW attractive. It’s cultural — that’s why it’s so fascinating to me. Living in Europe for any amount of time will quickly disavow you of that notion.
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Europe lacks the hardcore racial and cultural tension that we have here in USA. There are very real cultural differences between many white and blacks. Segregation allowed for us to develop different cultures that had little real contact with each other.
However, you guys have your own problems with the muslims over there.
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Oh, yes. The Muslims are another story entirely! Most German guys I know wouldn’t touch a Turkish girl with a ten foot pole. But maybe that’s because the ones that have didn’t live to tell about it. Turkish men have no sense of humor about their women. It must be really tough to stay away though, because they are awfully pretty. And long, black hair is like waving a red flag at a German guy.
Do you really think that American black and white cultures are so different? Hee, hee. That’s a very American way of looking at it. Amis are Amis are Amis. They’re all the same, really. You guys just like to think that you are special. If you are born and raised in the USA then you’re just a different flavor of the same kind of ice cream.
That’s like my dad’s hometown in SC. The white and black parts all have the same faith (Baptist), listen to the same music, eat the same food, grew up in the same hick town, went to the same schools, have the same last names even! But if you ask them, they’re “different”. *sigh* Americans are so weird like that.
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Americans even sound the same when they talk. It’s like they have bubble gum in their mouths.
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Black&German,
Oh yeah, it’s very true. Growing up in Ohio and attending a mixed-race school was a big eye opener. People didn’t have to be forced to segregate-it was done voluntarily.
Like you were saying about “not touching a Turkish girl with a ten foot pole.” That statement would apply to black women where I’m from.
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It really is dependent on where you live.
I live in NYC and I can’t remember the last time I saw a BM & WW together. Obviously they’re around but I tend to always see BW & WM together.
As far as more BM & WW being together then WM & BW are concerned, there seems to be alot to overcome for both sides.
For one BW are used to men being more direct with their approach towards them. WM aren’t like that for the most part.
I’ve noticed too both sides seem to be awfully worried what other folks have to say about their relationship.
At-least BM & WW have a ‘i don’t give a **** attitude’ I’d give them that.
Both sides seem to hold negative views of each other- I think this is more of the case with BW though.
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Both sides seem to hold negative views of each other- I think this is more of the case with BW though.
Think of how many black women are raised though. They often identify with their race over their gender and the main barrier/antagonist to the race is the white man; hence, it’s not much of a stretch to see why many bw do not want to mix, or have negative attitudes about white men. At the same time, it’s acceptable for bm to date out but it’ unacceptable for black women to date out. Since there was never a feminist revolution amongst black women like there was amongst white women, black culture is still far more patriarchal than white society in America.
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“That statement would apply to black women where I’m from.”
Really? But why? Would someone really try to kill you or her for it?
That statement wouldn’t apply around here. Most people probably wouldn’t even notice. I do notice differences in Americans but it’s less racial and more geographical and ethnic.
The funny thing about my dad’s hometown is that quite a few of the white/black people are related (as in cousins, half-siblings, etc.) but they’d still consider themselves very different. It boggles the mind.
A lot of the black people there have an awful lot of “cream in their coffee” (and they get whiter every generation) but nobody’s talking about how it got there. It’s “they keep to their side of town, we’ll keep to ours”. Umm… sure. Right. Looks like it’s been an effective policy up till now. *roll eyes*
The dirty South is such a strange place. I hate going down there for visits. And I can’t understand anything anybody is saying (black or white).
But it’s strange for me to think that Ohio could have some of the same tones.
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Re: Europe/ America
My observations were made in the UK (south london)and about men from all over the world, from europe to america.
The racial climate here is different, the black population have strong cultural (either carribean or african) heritage. Although from my understanding there are more IR relationships in london than most places in america (predomately bm/wm)
The approach/ views of white men seem to apply far beyond the states. perhaps to different degrees but the underlying attitudes are still there.
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bm/wm?
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BW are NOT a monolithic group and that’s why GENERALIZATIONS about BW NOT being attracted to WM or are NOT being OPEN to dating or marrying WM can be MISLEADING/INACCURATE.
Non-AA BW (Afrolatina BW, African BW, Carribean BW, etc.) and SOME AA BW are NOT raised to ONLY date and marry BM and these Non-AA BW/SOME AA BW have always been/are ATTRACTED to WM and have always been/are OPEN to dating and marrying WM.
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B&G,
Some really interesting comments.
I personally do not think that the South is any more racist than any other region in the U.S. It’s just that the folks in the South are more upfront about their prejudices and fears. Up North and out West, the racism is far more covert. But it’s no less appearant.
Also in response to another commenter,
BM/WF relationships are more “acceptable” than the opposite? You’ve got to be kidding! Those type of couplings (BM/WF) are the MOST STIGMIZATED! Where are you from??
Also, IR relationships between blacks and whites are the exception. Granted, it’s more prevelant in some area than it is in other areas. But still, as you guys have discussed above, America is much too racially tense and segegrated for them to the “norm”.
Perhaps, because IR relationships that involve blacks stand out more, it creates the illusion that there’s more than there really are?
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FS Says:
The racial climate here is different, the black population have strong cultural (either carribean or african) heritage. Although from my understanding there are more IR relationships in london than most places in america (predomately bm/wm)
That’s certainly true. You yanks like to go on about the Brits sexual issues but you can’t even sort out your own racial, sexual issues.
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mynameismyname:
“Those type of couplings (BM/WF) are the MOST STIGMIZATED!”
Most definitely.
“I personally do not think that the South is any more racist than any other region in the U.S.”
I agree but in the South the racism is cross-the-street, lock-your-door, in-your-face obvious. And
(warning: pure prejudiced drivel ahead)
there’s this kind of sleaziness to the WM down there. They look at me like… ugh. It’s gross and I never feel safe there. I get the impression that they don’t know whether to shag me or burn a cross in my yard.
Aaah! Blatant and shameful prejudice on my part but I can’t help it, they give me the total creeps — even the cute ones. I know it’s not just me because my sister and my cousins all avoid true southern WM like the plague. There’s probably some good ones out there but who wants to be the lab rat to test that theory?
I think it’s worse if you’re very light-skinned, too (as we all are). They’ll walk past a whole group of dark-skinned black women to come talk to us. It’s like they think we’re somehow within their territorial lines, or something. All I know is, I can’t help but break out in a sweat and think: “Please don’t leave me alone with him! You know he’s got a gun in his truck!” (and they often do)
I just can’t get over that. Really, I can’t.
LOL!
Okay, for those of you who want to know why there aren’t more BW/WM pairings just read what I just wrote. Sometimes we make jokes about WM from the south keeping a whip near the bed or wanting to see us in animal-print lingerie. (oh, so tasteless but we all laugh anyway)
We prefer Mr. Whitey McWhite to the southern-fried variety. He’s got to be the absolutely whitest guy around. Super White. Extra White with cream on top. LOL!
It’s okay to date a WM if he’s from California, Wisconson, France, or Texas but I’d be pretty wary if he was from — oh, I don’t know — Alabama or Mississippi. Just too much history there. I don’t think I could look past that.
I guess I’ve spewed enough baseless stereotypes for one day. Now you can all scream at me and call me a bigot. Gotta go pick up my preschooler.
Oh, by the way! When I dropped him off at lunchtime I did a quick-count of his classmates. Out of 24 (2 classes of 12), 6 are mixed-race, all with WM fathers. It’s easy to tell what race the fathers have because it’s usually dads who do the drop-off and moms who pick them up (ah, the peculiarities of afternoon preschool). Of course, I haven’t always seen the mothers so some of the kids could be adopted.
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Actually, now that I think of it, all of the WM that I’ve dated where either European or 1st or 2nd generation Americans. No true good ol’ boys.
There’s WM and then there’s WM. Know what I mean? Anybody who grew up with his parents’ calling black people n*****s or colored is out of the running from the get-go.
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B&G,
You are crazy! LOL. You seem like you’d be fun to hang out with!
Everything you said above makes a lot of sense.
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Black&German Says:
Fri 18 Sep 2009 at 12:46:58
Azrazyel
“I see many more bm/ww couples than, well I’ve said before I have never seen a bw/wm couple.
It could be where I live.” End quote
It’s where you live.
Isn’t that interesting? I actually didn’t even realize that BW/WM was considered so “rare” until I checked out the marriage statistics, which shocked me. Over here (outside Baltimore) it’s pretty common. I see at least one couple like that every time I leave the house. Sometimes 3 or 4. More than BM/WW even.
We don’t even get second glances around here. Even on my own street, the couple living next door is a BW/WM and so is the one diagonally across the street. And we’re all married with kids and living in an upper-middle class neighborhood. It’s strange but there’s the three of us and then there’s the guy down the street with the Confederate flag flying in his front yard. Maybe we’re the reason he’s put up the flag?
Although I’ve not noticed any hostility from WM towards BW/WM couples. It’s more towards BM/WW. Isn’t that typical male?
But the funniest thing was that I went to a pediatric ophthalmologist near here (about a year ago but I’ll never forget it) and when I was waiting to be seen I looked around the room and realized that of the 3 women with kids there, 2 where BW with obviously mixed-race children. We all just sat there staring at each other and smiling. Nobody said anything but I know we were all thinking: What are the chances of that?
There are A LOT of mixed-race children here. Maybe 1 out of 15, although I’m including other mixed-race pairings, as well, not just BW/WM but also AW/WM, BM/WW, etc. But if you go down closer to Baltimore or DC it’s even more common.
And it’s common enough in the military. I’m an army brat.
Like I said, it still surprises me that it’s NOT common everywhere. I wonder why that is? Perhaps it’s a question of socio-economic parity? History?
Yes it is weird. And it MUST be the area I live in. I mean, I saw three bm/ww couples today alone in Akron. So yes of course I will have the preconceived notion that bw/wm relationships probably don’t exist.
I am not saying there isn’t, I just have never seen it with the naked eye. But that is wonderful that you see it in Baltimore. I would think of D.C. as more of a prototype of New York City. Many mixed race cultures and relationships.
So you see why I said before why I don’t see any datable or available black women in Akron. Even Not Really agrees with me since he lived here before. I don’t know if there are any here that are interested, if there are they are kept hidden and silent.
About 98% of relationships/marriages around where I live are same race. Not too many IR relationships, but the ones I have seen most is black man/white woman & white man/Asian woman. It’s unfortunate that it has always seemed to be segregated, black/black, white/white in neighborhoods etc. Of course, that certainly does not apply to all. I mean I see some white and black kids hanging out here and there.
I think that is absolutely wonderful that you have bw/wm couples living on your street. And the mixed kids you saw with black women. I appreciate the black woman AND white man to make it happen and find love and passion whilst throwing all negative regards to the side.
The Confederate Flag guy on the street, oh boy. lol I would assume he has that because of the bw/wm couples, considering if he didn’t have it before. Although it can be a little irritating to see, if I was one of those white men living there I would just shrug it off and pray for him.
I want to ask you something. Is it true (in general, not all cases)that mixed race kids raised by parents of a black woman/white man grow up to be more successful, smarter, more kind etc. than a mixed race kid of a black man/white woman?
Again, that is in general and certainly does not apply to every case. I just happened to hear this a few times and was wanting some intake upon it.
Thanks
Az
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“We prefer Mr. Whitey McWhite to the southern-fried variety. He’s got to be the absolutely whitest guy around. Super White. Extra White with cream on top. LOL!”
Immaturity at it’s best!
Yes, I have said some things that were borderline, but come on.
Don’t spread the poison when the poison can’t be cured.
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abagond:
Why is it that every post I submit is sent for moderation?
I mean, do you have it set to where whenever I post, it’s automatically sent?????
(scratching me head here)
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Azrazyel,
“Why is it that every post I submit is sent for moderation?”
Oh, getting sent for moderation. It’s a bit like being sent to time out, isn’t it?
Of course, some kids relish time out and if you are equally masochistic then just put this into your next post (substituting the strings): fuc$ pu$$y $ex
LOL!
Abagond, you know I’m just messing with you! I get moderated constantly.
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I’m on here too much today but it’s fun.
mynameismyname:
“You are crazy! LOL. You seem like you’d be fun to hang out with!”
Thanks. According to some I’m an arrogant bitch but what they don’t understand is that even arrogant bitches can be fun to hang out with.
Not crazy just… blunt.
“Everything you said above makes a lot of sense.”
It makes sense to black people, at any rate. Even among black women who date interracially it’s one thing to bring home Sean Munroe from New Hampshire (and he has a Ph.D. Mom!) and quite another to bring home Billy Bob, the trash collector from Podunk.
It’s funny because I see WM online making comments like, “I like BW just not the ghetto ones.” And all the BW get riled up. The truth is we feel the same: “I like WM just not the ghetto ones.” Yes, white people can be ghetto. Totally ghetto. As in, “Ewww… When was the last time you bathed? And is that chewing tabac in your mouth? No, I don’t want to see your trailer or meet your pet rotweiler.” barf
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LOL, B&G.
Don’t apologize for commenting too much. It’s rare to have unguarded, intelligent conversation on race, a topic that most Americans go out of their way to avoid.
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Sometimes it is best to avoid it to save the heartache and migraines that pursue.
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Azrazyel:
Your last comment that got thrown to moderation got there because you used “whitey”, a term favoured by trolls (most of them seem to be white themselves).
At the top of each page on my blog you will see a link to the comment policy. It has the full list.
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Azrazyel:
In terms of mean IQs, from highest to lowest, it goes like this:
BM/WW
WM/WW
WM/BW
BM/BW
How does Steve Sailer explain that?
More here:
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Azrazyel:
“So yes of course I will have the preconceived notion that bw/wm relationships probably don’t exist.”
That’s funny because I have the opposite conditioning. There are so many BW/WM couples around here and in my family (and in my own personal experience) that I tend to see that as “the norm” even though it’s not.
Whenever a WM online (never heard one say it IRL) says that he doesn’t find BW attractive my initial reaction is “Yeah, right.” I find it hard to believe. I guess I live in an upside-down world.
“The Confederate Flag guy on the street, oh boy”
Actually Confederate Flag Guy doesn’t bother me as much as Tea Party Dude who recently started flying his American flag upside down. I cringe every time I see that.
“I want to ask you something.”
I have no idea. I don’t even know if anybody has studied that before.
mynameismyname:
You sound like Eric Holder. LOL!
You want to be unguarded? Okay, here’s unguarded:
One thing some/many? BW do have a bit of extra anxiety about is hooking up with a WM who seems cool at first but rapidly degrades into an abusive racist. Like werewolves when the moon comes out. What if I say or do the wrong thing and he blows up at me and calls me racial epithets.
Although, if you think about it it’s actually an insane idea. The really horrible thing is a man beating the crap out of you. The name calling is pretty irrelevant in comparison. If you follow it to it’s obvious conclusion it means… what? Is it better for a BM to beat you up because he’ll call you one name than for the WM to beat you up and call you another? Doesn’t it end up with you in the hospital either way?
But it IS DIFFERENT. It’s worse. If a BM uses and abuses you, you can assume it’s a personal thing. With a WM it’s like he’s not just doing it to you but to EVERY BLACK WOMAN. It’s like he’s not just reacting to something you did or said but rather that he’s degrading your very soul and seeing you as something less than human. That sort of humiliation is something every BW avoids like the plague. The only sure way to avoid that is to avoid WM. And some of us go for the half-way house: avoid WM who come from particularly “tainted” backgrounds.
Even when a BW dates a WM it can take a while for her to feel really “safe”; to let down her guard completely. She’ll watch him, observe the way he acts around other black people, analyze the things he says about news articles, etc. It’s like he’s on probation until he’s shown sufficient good behavior. I wonder if WM notice that or if we’re stealthy enough for them not to pick up on it?
We want to be seen as and treated like individuals but we also can’t seem to shake this Borg mentality. Perhaps it’s because we assume that white people see as us a unit, rather than as individuals, so we project the things they do or say to individuals onto the group.
Or maybe I’m talking in circles.
Has anyone ever read Octavia Butler’s “Kindred?”
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I do not find it surprsing that Maryland would have a high rate of mixed children. I have never lived there, but the few times I have been there it seemed to be pretty liberal with a large black middle-class.
I have never been to Akron, but I have been to Euclid, just east of Cleveland. It is the only place I can remember seeing a white man alone with black children.
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“So you see why I said before why I don’t see any datable or available black women in Akron. Even Not Really agrees with me since he lived here before. I don’t know if there are any here that are interested, if there are they are kept hidden and silent.”
I hear you my man, Ohio is not a good place at all for that type of IR, I’ve tried it myself. Nationally the numbers aren’t much better. It’s not only an issue in Ohio, but in the whole country. People mix more on a social basis out here on the west coast but there really aren’t that many more wm/bw relationships. Maybe because of the high hipster population out here? LOL! Hipsters love “alternative” white chick and Asians. That’s my little generalization for the day.
bTW,
This is the only blog I’ve ever been on that tackles this subject and does not turn into a total war.
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To Abagond:
In terms of mean IQs, from highest to lowest, it goes like this:
BM/WW
WM/WW
WM/BW
BM/BW
How does Steve Sailer explain that?
Interesting…. where did you get these figures?
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abagond says:
“Your last comment that got thrown to moderation got there because you used “whitey”, a term favoured by trolls (most of them seem to be white themselves).”
It was quoted, but I know what you mean. Thanks.
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I can’t imagine such a thing. But then again, I’m armed and they know it. Ha!
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I have a question to people out here.
I honestly believe I do have some racist thoughts still in me. I mean I really don’t know why they are there, nor do I want them to be.
I have a loving and caring family and friends. I am a liberal and was raised on a very good note and taught to love all.
For some reason, ever since I opened myself up to black women, slowly but surely I have noticed this deep hatred that has stemmed from nowhere. I mean, I can admit I have racist thoughts on certain people, male or female, but I am truly not understanding why I have these thoughts for.
I was not raised in the south, I don’t believe in the confederate flag, I mean hell, I even voted for Barack Obama. I was happy the first black man has finally gotten the opportunity to lead this nation and the world.
Abraham Lincoln is my favorite president FOR freeing the slaves (as well as other reasons). I generally support blacks, but I am trying to find the root of my racist thoughts. I have never lashed out or said the n word to anyone. It is all contained hatred.
Basically, it is hatred targeted at other racist blacks who hate whites. Am I on the computer too much? Getting to my head?
I know none of you are counselors (as far as I know anyway), but I am admitting (which may be rare for a white guy to do) racist thoughts and feelings of anger/hate.
I am seeking help from someone in here as to why I may be having these thoughts. I know for a FACT this is not a part of me nor do I want it to be. Sometimes, when I see hate directed towards me or my race, I defend it with the low level racism that spews from the original source.
I succumb easily to hatred, and I draw in negativity very easily.
I am a spiritual man, I believe in Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior. I have been a Christian/saved since I was 10. I know God is not happy with me with these thoughts I am experiencing.
I am sorry to bring religion into this. Just trying to give you a better scope of myself and the good character I am.
I know a relationship (obviously) with a black woman is impossible right now and I can admit that too, until I can somehow find the source of reasoning for my transgressions.
I am embarrassed to admit this and I feel deeply saddened and ashamed of myself. There is conflict within me.
If anyone is willing to help me out with this, I would be greatly appreciated.
From tears,
Az
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We want to be seen as and treated like individuals but we also can’t seem to shake this Borg mentality. Perhaps it’s because we assume that white people see as us a unit, rather than as individuals, so we project the things they do or say to individuals onto the group.
Or maybe I’m talking in circles.
Has anyone ever read Octavia Butler’s “Kindred?”
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No your observations are interesting and hold some truth. I think being vigilant with White men is frankly a prudent thing to do. Black women are dealing with abuse from both sides. As a female we are most likely to be abused and/ or killed in our own community and historically White men have abused and dehumanized Black women for centuries. We must also deal with the meme of the supposed beauty hierarchy and the scathing condemnation that comes from White men that we don’t fit into what they deem will be acceptable to their friends and family. Naturally some Black women aren’t thinking like this in any methodical way but may feel their way through this evaluation process intuitively for self protection—especially with some older Black women who have relatives or who experiences this kind of virulent dehumanization first hand.
I also agree with separating the good ole boys. I think black women who area cultured, articulate, well traveled and just highly intelligent and are interested in dating outside should focus on European cultured types. And even though they can just be as racist and nasty as American men—their lack of racial pretense is easier to deal with than American White men and all their superiority complexes and nasty biases that may transform into “werewolves”. I think it takes a certain level of openness, intelligence, curiosity and most importantly empathy that American people just don’t cultivate. Being a dumb dole boy is a badge of honor not something to fight against. If he is American he is probably quirky, honestly doesn’t care what society thinks, and is strong minded. Those characteristics working in concert or hard to come by these days.
Anecdotally, I have seen a few Mixed race couples in the military and the women were seeing stars and in love until he comes states side and then turns all conservative, hates lazy blacks (but not you—you are different compared to them) mentality which can be shocking and sickening. They stay in order to save face and they may even adopt those views to keep the peace. I never underestimate the capacity for blacks to turn on themselves or each other in order to curry favor with Whites.
Octavia Butler was a genius (RIP) and her book Kindred was particularly inspired. It was an unusual love story with a rather perverse familial and historical twist and she was perhaps the only Black author or author period that put black women/White male couples into her stories are normal and just ordinary. She never made a big deal about their race as a couple.
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Azrazyel!
Take a deep breath. You’re American. Don’t get worked up about it. We’re all racists here, some are just in denial. It’s in the water.
Abagond said almost the same thing here:
And about my own brand of racism here:
Abagond, you really have a post for every topic, don’t you?
And what BW are afraid of isn’t actually that a WM would have some racist opinions (we all have that) or harbor some stereotypes. Rather it’s that she’ll be seen as “just one of many” or as useful but not valuable. If a WM is convinced that all black people really do have rhythm it isn’t a turn off, although it might make me roll my eyes. But if he thought I was cheap just because he’d seen one too many rap videos, that would be different. It would also be disturbing if he just wanted to sleep with me to find out “what it was like”. As if one BW is interchangeable with another. Or if he took out his anger over another black person out on me, treating me like a stand-in for all black people.
“Sometimes, when I see hate directed towards me or my race, I defend it with the low level racism that spews from the original source.”
Okay, while we’re confessing:
You can always tell in my writing when I’m angry because I turn on my cold-bitch routine and pump up the vocabulary a notch. Nothing gets under people’s skin like superfluous big words. I’m passive aggressive that way.
But reciprocating in kind doesn’t get you very far. It just makes the other person think that you’re ignorant.
Mayhue
“It was an unusual love story with a rather perverse familial and historical twist”
I read it last week and it absolutely haunted me. Especially the way she was torn about saving her ancestor’s life. It really hit home to me. For all of our complaining, would you really go back and change that at the risk of ending your own existence? Umm…. no. Of course you wouldn’t. But what a horrible thought. I can’t believe she had the guts to write that book.
I also like how every relationship was colored in shades of gray, rather than black and white.
“the women were seeing stars and in love until he comes states side and then turns all conservative”
Ugh. That would be so disappointing. I guess it’s a sort of werewolf-type, isn’t it?
I REALLY hate when men (of any race) tell me something racist and then say, “Oh, but I don’t mean YOU. You’re different.” No, actually, I’m not. The fact that you want to sleep with me does not separate me from my ancestors or change my genetic makeup. Sorry.
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Blanc2:
“By the way, I have been happily married to a BW for 14 years now, and we have two beautiful golden children for whom I would lay down my life and die.”
I just wanted to say that that made me smile.
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So basically it’s normal to think that this certain black person is the n word? Albeit, I don’t really believe that nor do I go around thinking that.
Sometimes in a heated debate, I tend to be straightforward (little too much?) and speak my mind. If a black person calls me whitey (I know abagond, this will be ‘sent for moderation’ LOL), I tend to get heated and call them n@gger.
That could be me falling into that trap of hate, although later on once I cool down I’ll think to myself….’what the hell was I thinking?” When I call a black person the n word, it’s because I feel their racism fall upon me.
I don’t initiate, but I do defend hate words with hate words. That is immaturity upon myself.
Quote:
“BW do have a bit of extra anxiety about is hooking up with a WM who seems cool at first but rapidly degrades into an abusive racist. Like werewolves when the moon comes out. What if I say or do the wrong thing and he blows up at me and calls me racial epithets.”
End quote.
That post relates well to when I said, obviously I can’t date a black woman at this time.
If I even have the slightest bit of racism or willing to call a black the n word (to defend and not initiate, albeit it’s not right anyway), what makes me think the above statement cannot happen to me????
That quote can also be attributed to a white man possibly ’saying’ or ‘doing’ something wrong.
Black women are just as capable of blowing up just as white men are.
Just don’t paint the white man as the culprit here. The same can be said in reverse.
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Back to the original topic:
Wildflower:
“Thinking about it, I do need to look at white men and slightly smile for them to make an overture. Black men seem to be quicker to make an overture without the look and smile, while white men need some sign of interest or friendliness.
White men seem willing to marry once intimacy is established and a solid relationship is there if they are liberal enough to openly date a black woman in the first place.”
I agree completely to both.
That reminds me of a trip to the Smithsonian where I was looking for the posted sign to explain an exhibit. There was this cute blond guy standing near me who was studiously ignoring me. As in, not looking in my direction to the point that it was noticeable as I was standing right in front of the exhibit. There was nobody else around so I thought: Hell, might as well ask him. When I said, “Excuse me, do you know what this is?” his whole face lit up and he ended up giving me the grand tour of the entire section and trying to get my phone number. I could barely get rid of him (I had a boyfriend at the time). It was really funny! I don’t think he would have said a word to me if I hadn’t spoken first. He was cute though; charming. And he knew an awful lot about fossils, LOL!
But a lot of WM seem to be like that. In my experience, at least. Perhaps it is different for WW. Isn’t that what you were saying, Blanc2?
“Is it sometimes the black woman hesitating over the permanent bond because of history, fear, racism?”
I don’t think so. If anything it’s a failure to connect AT THE BEGINNING. Once they’re “serious” marriage seems to be inevitable. And there’s the low divorce rate of these pairings. It seems like once they take the first step they often work out well. But that first step can be HUGE.
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I read it last week and it absolutely haunted me. Especially the way she was torn about saving her ancestor’s life. It really hit home to me. For all of our complaining, would you really go back and change that at the risk of ending your own existence? Umm…. no. Of course you wouldn’t. But what a horrible thought. I can’t believe she had the guts to write that book.
I also like how every relationship was colored in shades of gray, rather than black and white
*****************************************
The book was wonderful—especially when she almost decided to stay in the past—her ancestor was a racist, but for that one moment—she almost never went back. She was able to do something remarkable and that was have empathy for him and his place in her history.
Octavia Butler is unpitying in her philosophy and loathes victimization. In all of her books the main character—the protagonist is always a strong Black woman. Several of her stories had the women either paired with an Asian, –several times White or a black man. Her Stories and characters were ahead of its time.
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“That quote can also be attributed to a black woman possibly ‘doing’ or ’saying’ something offensive and a white man can also blow up and use racist words.”
It’s actually the combination of the beat-down (that’s what I meant by “blow-up”) and the swearing that would get to me. I’m sure you can understand that and wouldn’t condone it, regardless of what she’d said.
But I wouldn’t tolerate the racist swearing alone, either. That’s hitting below the belt. Really low.
“Why must it always be the white guy being painted this way? I am sure black women are just as capable.”
Capable of saying racist things that upset you? Sure. But capable of saying racist things that make you feel like less than a human being? Less so. It’s a question of power. I think you’d have to say a lot to a white person to make them feel like a class of subhuman.
Of course, if BW were completely rational we’d check out statistics and then ONLY marry WM. They’re less likely to hit us in the first place. Or rape us. Or run out on us. Or abandon our children. Or land in jail. Or be a drug addict. Or give us a STD. Or be unemployed. Or, or, or. Remind me, why was I defending BM before?
Oh, yeah. Because if they beat the shit out of us at least they won’t call us the “n word” while they do it. They just use that word to describe themselves. *retch*
At least if they use us for sex they do it just to use us and not for curiosities’ sake. The only thing worse than ending up used and abandoned is ending up used and abandoned.
Ummm… I’m losing my own argument here.
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Mayhue:
“The book was wonderful—especially when she almost decided to stay in the past—her ancestor was a racist, but for that one moment—she almost never went back. She was able to do something remarkable and that was have empathy for him and his place in her history.”
That part really got to me, as well. It was interesting how the “good relationship” with her husband and the “bad relationship” with her ancestor sort of merged in the end. It seemed like that was what was causing her confusion; she found it more and more difficult to paint one as the “good guy” and the other as the bad one. The characters seemed more complex as the book progressed.
One part that gave me a shiver was when she was going to return for the last time and her husband commented on what her ancestor had said the last time “You can’t leave me!” and mentioned that it sounded like something he’d say himself. I thought: woah. Her husband knew what was going on in the other guy’s head even if she remained in denial about it. Gray, gray, gray.
Should we start a book club?
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Moderating, moderating…
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“Immaturity at it’s best!
Yes, I have said some things that were borderline, but come on.”
I’m generally beyond borderline, I think.
Okay, it was immature. But kind of funny. A little bit funny? Just a bit funny?
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1. That part really got to me, as well. It was interesting how the “good relationship” with her husband and the “bad relationship” with her ancestor sort of merged in the end. It seemed like that was what was causing her confusion; she found it more and more difficult to paint one as the “good guy” and the other as the bad one. The characters seemed more complex as the book progressed.
One part that gave me a shiver was when she was going to return for the last time and her husband commented on what her ancestor had said the last time “You can’t leave me!” and mentioned that it sounded like something he’d say himself. I thought: woah. Her husband knew what was going on in the other guy’s head even if she remained in denial about it. Gray, gray, gray.
Should we start a book club?
*******************************************
Love to read.
Gray, Gray—essentially racism in America becomes that much more difficult to justify once you cease objectifying the person and are able to empathize. And that was her essential point. Slavery was a peculiar and very complicated institution. And the results of that will reverberate for generations.
And because she was so strong—she reminded me so much of the archetypal black woman who is supposed to take care of everyone. She almost surrended to the proposition with her ancestor, but when she returned to the present—she was faced with having to be strong for both herself and her husband.
I would also suggest The Between by Tananarive Due. This book has a similar device about traveling back and forth in time and the protagonist is a Black male. The book is a very fast read, although I much prefer Kindred—this also speaks to death and fate. Since you stated you are a fast reader you should be able to get through this fascinating story very quickly.
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Well, as long as I can use the term ghett0 black, loose booty, ebonics, 925, Ace of Spades, Akata (okay I went too far with that lol)
Ha. I could go on and on but I give you permission to use yours as long as I can use mine, appropriately.
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“Slavery was a peculiar and very complicated institution.”
Yes, it was. And it polluted white people’s minds just the same as black people’s. Sort of like Nazism in Germany. It corrupted everything. And we’re still trying to recover.
Have you read Jacob’s Ladder? One of the things I really enjoyed was that he also had every character living a gray life. For example, his “tragic mulatto” character was partly tragic and partly a lying/manipulative/cunning/scheming woman. She found herself in a terrible situation and decided to make the best of it.
“I would also suggest The Between by Tananarive Due.”
My library doesn’t carry that one. They do have The Ancestors by Due. Have you read that one?
I’m currently reading The Feast of All Saints by Anne Rice. Not great writing; I’m generally no big Anne Rice fan. But it is interesting reading about the Gens de couleurs and Plaçage. I hadn’t realized before what a large group of people they were. 1500 black placées in 1788 New Orleans.
Abagond, you should do an entry on that!
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I had to Google “Akata”.
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I figured you would.
I have a question about slavery.
Why is it that blacks tend to forget THEY sold their own?
Whites were the buyers, blacks being the sellers.
I tend to think blacks see it as the white man WAS the buyer AND seller.
I mean, was this lost in time? Both parties are in equal guilt as the other.
Maybe I’m not educated enough. I dunno.
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I wish I got a dollar everytime someone told me this. This is one of those Useful Facts that white people just LOVE to repeat.
The reason whites bring it up and blacks do not is because whites, especially white Americans, are the only ones interested in trying to excuse the slave trade. To everyone else it is such a clear evil that there is no excuse for it.
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Azrazyel,
Are you sure you want to date a black woman? Because with the things you say….
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Black & German:
I did a post on the Creoles, with particular attention paid to the free people of colour:
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I’m not trying to excuse what happened.
But, I can’t seem to place blame upon blacks as well for what happened long ago.
Or is it that blacks don’t want to live up to their bargain as well?
Or is it way too easy to place it on whites with no regards for explanation on their part?
I’m just trying to find out here. Not trying to castrate comments.
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Damali Says:
Azrazyel,
Are you sure you want to date a black woman? Because with the things you say….
I already said I couldn’t because of the racism in me.
I’m trying to figure where it comes from.
Refer to post 66.
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It’s seems to me that some are giving bm & ww to much credit. Many time when I am approaching or passing them the bm ALWAYS looks in the other direction or looks DOWN. So the “them” not giving a damn? Usually IT is about something ELSE – it’s not always the obvious!
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Abagond,
Of course you have a post on that.
Azrazyel,
Yes, black people know about that. Just as we know that some slave owners were black.
Using that as an excuse would be like saying, “Why is everyone blaming the Germans when the Poles also put people in ghettos?” The one doesn’t excuse the other.
The horror black people feel for the slave trade isn’t just about the Middle Passage. It’s also for the way that their owners behaved to them after they got here. Even after slavery ended black people continued to be treated like so much garbage.
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Azrazyel Says:
I figured you would.
I have a question about slavery.
Why is it that blacks tend to forget THEY sold their own?
Whites were the buyers, blacks being the sellers.
I tend to think blacks see it as the white man WAS the buyer AND seller.
I mean, was this lost in time? Both parties are in equal guilt as the other.
Maybe I’m not educated enough. I dunno.
——————————————–
Not all slavery was the same at different periods. In Classical Greece and Roman times, slaves were educated and could hold high positions in society (albeit it was quite rare.)
The Ottoman empire had Janisarries (I’ve probably spelt it wrong) and the Egyptain sultanate had the Mamluks. They were both the special forces of the two empires and were made up of mostly slaves. They also held very high positions in their societies. Most of the Ottoman Sultan’s generals were slaves as well. Saladin was also rumored to be a slave.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saladin
What made the transatlantic slave trade more pernicious than times i’ve just mentioned above is the fact that only black people were made slaves and there were many laws that made it acceptable to do so.
Also between 500-1500 AD slavery was frowned upon in European countries.
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Also Azrazyel look up on Abagonds Creole blog.
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Wow Vindicator.
Thank you. I found that very informative and I learned something here.
Much appreciated.
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Post on Creoles:
American slavery stands out in the history of the world for three reasons:
1. It was based on race. That made all blacks into a lower order of human beings in the minds of white Americans. That part is still with us. It is why a post like this is even necessary. This is in common with Latin America, but the next two are not:
2. Slaves were treated as property, like a horse. Even in Latin America during the same period – or New Orleans under the French – they had rights as humans: they could take their masters to court, they could buy their freedom and so on.
3. White Americans made their own chidren into slaves.
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On the bit about why Africans sold their own too was (also) because the people were from differing tribes, they had no sense of pan-africanism.
Meaning these folks didn’t care for each other because they were from other tribes that weren’t their own they had families and i guess that was the only option.
Don’t forget that overall, we were CHASED DOWN and CAPTURED.
And this probably wouldn’t have happened if trading with the Portuguese (i think) hadn’t of stopped because of Columbus.
*i’m trying take what i learned in Afro history and apply it to conversations like this.
my two scents from school
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Most of those who were sold by Africans were prisoners of war. Something the Greeks and Romans did too (sell prisoners of war as slaves).
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Blanc I went over and changed the resolution setting from “Normal” to “Superfine,” telling her that it was the appropriate setting for her.
killed me. this is so cute and very funny.
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1. Have you read Jacob’s Ladder? One of the things I really enjoyed was that he also had every character living a gray life. For example, his “tragic mulatto” character was partly tragic and partly a lying/manipulative/cunning/scheming woman. She found herself in a terrible situation and decided to make the best of it.
“I would also suggest The Between by Tananarive Due.”
My library doesn’t carry that one. They do have The Ancestors by Due. Have you read that one?
I’m currently reading The Feast of All Saints by Anne Rice. Not great writing; I’m generally no big Anne Rice fan. But it is interesting reading about the Gens de couleurs and Plaçage. I hadn’t realized before what a large group of people they were. 1500 black placées in 1788 New Orleans.
Abagond, you should do an entry on that!
****************************************
Sounds cool. I’ll look into it. I would also recommend Margaret Walker’s Jubilee (old school) which falls within the same vein so to speak.
I have not read The Ancestors. Due can be hit or miss whereas Octavia Butler has always been very consistent in her world view. Due’s best were Living Blood (vampire) and The Between. The Good House although uneven had some interesting points.
I agree with you about Anne Rice. She is notoriously baroque and heady with her own words. I read Interview and Letstat and could not finish Queen of the Damned. Vampires bore me anyway and I found her to be rather pretentious. I did start reading Feast of All Saints but could not get through it. Having visited New Orleans a few times, I don’t really need Anne Rice. The presence of the Gens de couleurs and Plaçage are all throught the French Quarter and down Charles Avenue. Your must visit New Orleans—there is something so surreal about that place.
On another book note, Barbara Neely is pretty cool. Blanche on the Lam is a wonderful debut novel. Part social and detective fiction with a likeable Black woman,( who is a very smart and a domestic), as the main character. Blanche on the Lam can be read in one sitting.
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I started reading “Feast of All Saints’. Her prose was a turn-off.
I have never read “Kindred” but my sister has. She keeps telling me I should read it but cannot find her copy of it. I will have to order it from the library. (She just got done reading “Song Yet Sung” by James McBride. She says it makes most books seem like junk food.)
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I don’t know if I would go out with a white man personally much less marry one.
1. The scuzzball. This approach is only going to work on the most self hating oreo black women because most of us have been taught at an early age that all white men want to do is use you. I’m full aware many of them see us as whores and white girls are the marrying kind. If you approach me boldly that’s just proving my point so of course I’m gonna reject you.
2. The normal white guy. He has his odds stacked against him because why would I date a white guy when I prefer black men anyway? It’s easier to date inside your race anyway so why would I give him a chance if he thinks white women are better anyway? I’m not trying to be a notch on somebody’s bed post so he can be able to say “Yeah I had a black chick” to his buddies at the poolhall.
3. The friend – to me that is just sneaky. I can’t respect a man who doesn’t have confidence. If you don’t like yourself why should I? That is sneaky anyway, make your intentions known and don’t fake a friendship just to get with someone. Those are the same ones crying about “Nice Guys finish last” too. Pathetic.
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Arianna:
Wow. We think alike.
You helped me see how much of a fool I appear on here at times.
“1. The scuzzball. This approach is only going to work on the most self hating oreo black women because most of us have been taught at an early age that all white men want to do is use you. I’m full aware many of them see us as whores and white girls are the marrying kind. If you approach me boldly that’s just proving my point so of course I’m gonna reject you.”
That’s all stereotypes.
Like me saying all black women are ghett0/loud/annoying/obnoxious, undatable/unmarriageable material.
I at least can boldly say that is NOT true.
“2. The normal white guy. He has his odds stacked against him because why would I date a white guy when I prefer black men anyway? It’s easier to date inside your race anyway so why would I give him a chance if he thinks white women are better anyway? I’m not trying to be a notch on somebody’s bed post so he can be able to say “Yeah I had a black chick” to his buddies at the poolhall.”
Why WOULD you give white men a chance when YOU prefer black men to begin with.
Like me saying I prefer white women so why would I give a black woman a chance?
OBVIOUS. I would be PREFERRING white women!
“It’s easier to date inside your race anyway so why would I give him a chance if he thinks white women are better anyway?”
I don’t know. Since it’s easier to date inside your race, why are you worrying about this then?
What kind of white men do you meet to make you feel this way?
Thanks for lumping us all into one big box of stereotypes.
“I’m not trying to be a notch on somebody’s bed post so he can be able to say “Yeah I had a black chick” to his buddies at the poolhall.”
Again, stereotypes.
As if all white men think this way.
“3. The friend – to me that is just sneaky. I can’t respect a man who doesn’t have confidence. If you don’t like yourself why should I? That is sneaky anyway, make your intentions known and don’t fake a friendship just to get with someone. Those are the same ones crying about “Nice Guys finish last” too. Pathetic.”
I can’t speak for bad experiences. But I can speak for ignorance, especially when one thinks we are ALL like that.
Do yourself a favor, educate yourself. Then when you have been debunked of all stereotypes, come back and show me some improvement.
(Sometimes I need to take my own advice).
Peace
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Arianna,
If you choose not to date or marry a white guy is certainly your business. If you want to hate us that is certainly ok too. But, just to let you know, there are a LOT of us white guys that do not fit into either catagory, 1, 2, or 3. Just to let you know.
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Arianna: “1. The scuzzball. This approach is only going to work on the most self hating oreo black women because most of us have been taught at an early age that all white men want to do is use you. I’m full aware many of them see us as whores and white girls are the marrying kind. If you approach me boldly that’s just proving my point so of course I’m gonna reject you.”
Azrazyel: That’s all stereotypes.
Like me saying all black women are ghett0/loud/annoying/obnoxious, undatable/unmarriageable material.
Well, according to the post and according to Dalyn Montgomery, the white man whose opinion the post is based on, she is not stereotyping them: the white men who would approach her in a scuzz-ball manner are in fact scuzz balls. She would have to be soft in the head to take them seriously.
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Azrazyel said:
Do yourself a favor, educate yourself. Then when you have been debunked of all stereotypes, come back and show me some improvement.
Arianna is welcome here any time. This is my blog, not yours.
If I remember correctly you said the black women in your part of town were too ghetto to be worth dating. That is a stereotype. And yet I did not tell you to get lost till you showed some improvement.
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abagond:
I clearly said I need to learn from my own ignorance.
Secondly, she stated she was taught that white men want to use ‘her’.
I am here to state that indeed is a stereotype. I told her we are not like that.
And how is it a stereotype when the black women in my area ARE too ghett0 for my tastes? I don’t believe you happen to live where I do, nor do you know the environment I live in.
She said she is aware many white men see her as a whore?
I’m not complaining that I think black women think all white men are racist rednecks, because I do indeed know not all of them think that.
I saw it as a false statement, so I defended myself.
Hence, me saying I see the ignorance in me when I stereotype black women in certain categories.
It’s all a learning process.
Jeesh.
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One more thing:
Why are black girls taught at a young age that ‘beware of the white man’ because he wants to use you?
I don’t know what’s worse, the message or the messenger.
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“She just got done reading “Song Yet Sung” by James McBride. She says it makes most books seem like junk food.”
I just read that last week! It’s the book of the month at our library so I had to read it fast and return it as there are so many waiting for it. But it was wonderful. The story didn’t really grip me but the writing did. But it was not easy to read. I needed lots of coffee for some of the passages.
I read McBride’s book in one evening (same with the magnificent Kindred which I devoured in 3 hours) but I’ve been worrying away at The Feast for over 2 weeks now. It’s positively tedious in parts; I just can’t get into it. Very baroque; I keep expecting a vampire to jump in at some point.
And everyone is always shagging or wanting to shag everyone else. Like a bad porno. And must everyone be stunningly beautiful? As if non-gorgeous people don’t have sex lives or procreate? And must ALL of the WM characters be lecherous? Ho hum.
Mayhue:
Of course my white-bread library carries none of your titles. I might try Prince George’s County but I have a book with them that is sooo overdue. I can’t find it anywhere!
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“Why are black girls taught at a young age that ‘beware of the white man’ because he wants to use you?”
They are taught that so they never leave the black community and take their talent and resources with them. Black women are the movers and shakers of the black community. Their disinvestment would hurt, so it’s better to convince them that the color line is the more than the gender line.
Secondly, if your interested in black women you better get used to comments like Arianna’s.
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“the white men who would approach her in a scuzz-ball manner are in fact scuzz balls. She would have to be soft in the head to take them seriously.”
That elicited a giggle from me. True, true.
Although sometimes normal guys have a scuzz-ball moment (impulse? desperation? exasperation?) and it works on me. Like Blanc2’s fax episode. If you do it right it comes off charming, not scuzzy. A fine line to walk, though.
“Why are black girls taught at a young age that ‘beware of the white man’ because he wants to use you?”
Better to be safe than sorry, I suppose.
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“Secondly, if your interested in black women you better get used to comments like Arianna’s.”
Agreed.
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My little sister keeps getting chatted up by white guys and even asian guys. Personally I don’t really care who she dates. So long that he isn’t a d*ck or a p*ssy a$$ Poindexter, it’s all good.
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Abagond you should check it out. Since you are in NY, I know you can find a cheap used or library copy. It really is a very easy read. Love, love Octavia Butler.
B&G if you can find a cheap copy or another library I think it’s worth it—Neely is a quick fun read. Jubilee is a bit longer but worth getting acquainted with Vyry.—Also Cane River by Lalita Tademy does a much better account detailing Gens de couleurs then Anne Rice’s usual soft porn annoying c*ap. It’s a true family account with rich historical detail about them. It is an Oprah Selection so it may be in your library.
********************************************
What I find interesting about Arianna’s comments is that she is very emphatic about her preferences in the same manner that a lot of White guys are about there’s. They are the first to say that Black women are ugly, not attractive and think that we are gross with a notable few mainstream exceptions or they have to be drop dead gorgeous for them to be grudgingly complimentary, whereas they can look like trolls or genetic throwbacks—as if that is some kind of compliment.
In addition, they love to stereotype Black women and just Black people to justify not seeing us as human either through FBI stats, IQ stats, OOW stats, or anti-achievement stats, and their perception that 12% of the population is ghetto, uncouth or ugly—but let a Black person do that to them—then all of sudden they hate being generalized—they are individual and how should any Black person dare to generalize them.
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Mayhue,
Exactly! These people think they are entitled to say whatever about Black women, yet take deep offense at what us Blacks say about a nonblack group. All of a sudden they get defensive.
Why’s Arianna’s choice of Black men bother people at all? Especially nonblacks are not keen at all at dating/marrying Black women. They prefer women of their respective ethnicities and live in segregated surroundings and yet we get condemnation for doing the same.
La Reyna
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Never get to bent out of shape about one woman says; there are so many more out there that’s it’s just not worth.
If you want the most success with women just keep your dating pool large. I like black women probably as much as the rest of the guys on here; however, I broaden my horizons to find the best available and most compatible mate that I can. It only makes sense. Jut like you should never spend too much time chasing one woman. There are too many other options available to you. Don’t end up wasting your time.
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@Mayhue,
That’s true. I wouldn’t discouraged by a lot of what white yank men say. Most of the world see them as arrogant, uncouth, petty, weak-minded crybabies (then again they see most yanks like that, but white american men in particular.)
I just think yank men of all races can be the biggest bunch of fags when it comes to women. They care more about the race of a woman then how fine the woman is.
If I was an American woman, I’d emmigrate.
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Mayhue said:
In addition, they love to stereotype Black women and just Black people to justify not seeing us as human either through FBI stats, IQ stats, OOW stats, or anti-achievement stats, and their perception that 12% of the population is ghetto, uncouth or ugly—but let a Black person do that to them—then all of sudden they hate being generalized—they are individual and how should any Black person dare to generalize them.
I agree with La Reyna: that is so true!
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“Secondly, if your interested in black women you better get used to comments like Arianna’s.”
That’s a first.
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Maybe I’m just to entangled with my emotions. I think about it to deeply.
Maybe this just isn’t for me if I think the way I do.
Oh well, some things are better left unknown.
I hate to think that, but I obviously have conflict within.
I’m not mature enough for criticism without defense.
It seems I feel as if I’m not wanted in here. I talk on other blogs and I don’t feel that way on them.
I appreciate the integrity in here and I wish you all good luck with your relationships.
May God bless.
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Wanting to jump to the defence of your race is completely natural. Or at least in America it is. Half the comments by white people on this blog are like that. I would not sweat it.
If you are not going to stand by and let black people stereotype whites – why should you? – then why should blacks allow themselves to be stereotyped by whites? It goes both ways.
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Mayhue says,
What I find interesting about Arianna’s comments is that she is very emphatic about her preferences in the same manner that a lot of White guys are about there’s. They are the first to say that Black women are ugly, not attractive and think that we are gross with a notable few mainstream exceptions or they have to be drop dead gorgeous for them to be grudgingly complimentary, whereas they can look like trolls or genetic throwbacks—as if that is some kind of compliment.
In addition, they love to stereotype Black women and just Black people to justify not seeing us as human either through FBI stats, IQ stats, OOW stats, or anti-achievement stats, and their perception that 12% of the population is ghetto, uncouth or ugly—but let a Black person do that to them—then all of sudden they hate being generalized—they are individual and how should any Black person dare to generalize them.
LaReyna says,
Exactly! These people think they are entitled to say whatever about Black women, yet take deep offense at what us Blacks say about a nonblack group. All of a sudden they get defensive.
Why’s Arianna’s choice of Black men bother people at all? Especially nonblacks are not keen at all at dating/marrying Black women. They prefer women of their respective ethnicities and live in segregated surroundings and yet we get condemnation for doing the same.
Vindicator says,
That’s true. I wouldn’t discouraged by a lot of what white yank men say. Most of the world see them as arrogant, uncouth, petty, weak-minded crybabies (then again they see most yanks like that, but white american men in particular.)
I just think yank men of all races can be the biggest bunch of fags when it comes to women. They care more about the race of a woman then how fine the woman is.
If I was an American woman, I’d emmigrate.
laromana says,
Mayhue, LaReyna, and Vindicator,
Thanks for your excellent comments. I totally agree with your points of view.
Ariana is certainly entitled to have a preference for BM as ANYONE has the right to have a preference for ANY person of ANY RACE.
Although there are SOME American WM/NON-BM who do RESPECT the HUMANITY, DIGNITY, and FEMININITY of BW (and treat them with the SAME RESPECT they do OTHER NON-WW), MOST American WM/NON-BM don’t/haven’t and they demonstrate this FACT by CONTINUING to promote LIES, MYTH, and STEREOTYPES against BW and by REFUSING to date/marry BW, while being open to dating/marrying OTHER NON-WW.
Many people forget that, since BW ARE HUMAN BEINGS and INDIVIDUALS, we have been/are hurt by the HISTORICAL ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE in American culture. We have been/are fed up with ANTI-BW attitudes/mindsets and REJECT those who CONTINUE to promote them (and want to see ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE DESTROYED).
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the majority of black women dont give a damn what a white boy thinks about us.
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white boys cant even keep their own lame ass white women from chasing black men why the hell would we want them?
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^^
LOL, Jasmine.
For better or worse, there’s some truth to both statements.
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azrazyel…maybe you just need some action you seem a little tense
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i mean maybe you just need to get laid azrazyel…
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peanut:
I don’t have sex. I withhold myself from that because I have morals, which very few people have.
Apparently Jasmine, quite of few women in here do.
And no, we aren’t losing our white women. And our women aren’t lame. I cherish them as much as anyone else.
But, saying most black women don’t give a d@mn about what white boys think about them is true.
Because most white boys still continue to think black women are worthless, ghett0, undatable, nmarriageable material.
Statistics don’t lie.
It all works out in the end.
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white boys cant even keep their own lame ass white women from chasing black men why the hell would we want them?
Think about your statement, then reverse it. Black women can’t keep their men from chasing everything white. People who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.
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But,
I do encourage some black men to date white women or others because I see exactly ‘why’ they do.
There are plenty of white women to go around. White men and black men have aplenty to choose from.
To each his own and may he find happiness when he does.
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“I do encourage some black men to date white women or others because I see exactly ‘why’ they do.”
once again…good luck with that 🙂
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Azrazyel Says:
Because most white boys still continue to think black women are worthless, ghett0, undatable, nmarriageable material.
Statistics don’t lie.
Azrazyel,
I simply do not agree. I am curious as to where find these “statistics”
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i honestly think some people just make it harder than it is…we’re all human…it shouldn’t be that serious…
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No one conducting any kind of poll has asked me what I think of black women. Doggonit! I’m always missing out on the good stuff. How does anyone come up with statistics on such a thing? Did they ask 100 white guys from the south? Fifty white guys from the south and 50 white guys from the north. Fifty white guys from the south, fifty black guys from the north. Twenty-five white guys from the south, 25 from the north, 25 black guys from the north, and 25 asians from San Francisco. Yep,statistics don’t lie.
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I simply do not agree. I am curious as to where find these “statistics”
They don’t exist. Can you imagine trying to do a scientific survey of white men in America as to weather they think black women are “worthless, ghetto, undatable, marriageable material” ?
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Not Really,
My point exactly! They do not exist.
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Most black women could give two sh!ts less about white men.
Where I live, it proves itself.
Maybe there are some exceptions in ‘some’ areas, but for the most part that attitude pays it’s dividends.
Why should I chase someone who hates my guts for what my ancestors did? And no, I do not apologize for what they did. I wasn’t a part of it, neither were they.
I can apologize for the repercussions that have ensued.
Pretty much all black women hate white men. They see the white man as the oppressor and they see them as a reincarnation of Satan himself.
Should I really waste my time any longer trying to convince myself that it’s different?
Yes, most of my comments are based and built upon the environment I live in. Sometimes I think where I live could be mistaken for a town in the deep south.
Many racists around here, I’ve seen it and I’ve heard it.
Since I have never seen a bw/wm couple, of course my preconceptions will tell me they really don’t exist. Maybe in a fantasy world. I guess an epic hollywood movie is the only fake existence I’ve seen.
I don’t know why this is so f@cking difficult for me. I have a passion, but I experience too many barriers to pass.
I suppose I am hopeless. My mind is deranged and I take offense like a lion seeking it’s prey.
It’s like one of those situations:
“You like the person setting next to you, the only thing that hurts the most is knowing you can’t have them.”
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Pretty much all black women hate white men. They see the white man as the oppressor and they see them as a reincarnation of Satan himself.”
not true…there are plenty of bw who just like men who are kind to them period…but if u go around thinking all bw hate wm, then those are the women you’re going to encounter more often than not…your not obligated to date black women, if its stressing you out, then don’t do it its that simple, but don’t blame all black women for your own personal hang ups…that’s all.
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Well said,peanut.
I do think Azrazyel has one helluva drama coach.
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Azrayel,
Sounds like you have a fetish to me. Women are just women my man, get a grip and move on.
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“Sounds like you have a fetish to me. Women are just women my man, get a grip and move on.”
Moving on….
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Abagond:
Could you take me off the mailing list?
Thanks
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“Sounds like you have a fetish to me. Women are just women my man, get a grip and move on.”
azrazyel says:
“Moving on….”
for you as an individual that is probably a good choice…
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i don’t think its fair to judge people based on stereotypes though and i wouldn’t want to be with anyone who thought that way and wasn’t atleast trying to change…”I do encourage some black men to date white women or others because I see exactly ‘why’ they do” a comment like that is not going to get the attention of any bw and personally just speaks of overall perception of bw an individual has…so yes for you its probably best to move on
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Azrazyel:
I do not know how to get you off the mailing list for this thread. Does anyone know?
You might try unchecking the checkbox that asks if you want to be notified by email.
If that does not work and if no one else knows, then I will ask the powers that be at WordPress what to do.
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Azrazyel:
It seems that ramblinrick has the right outlook about dating black women. As far as I can remember, he does not exoticize or stereotype them. He sees that they are women first before anything else. I would take what he says pretty seriously.
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Azrazyel:
I do not live where you live, but in my experience most ghetto women are not “ghetto”. So that is why it seems like you are stereotyping them.
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Now, back to why so few white men marry black women. In my opinion, I think we will see more wm/bw couples, and subsequently more wm/bw marriages. I am married to a black woman. One of her close friends, in her forty’s has never even considered dating outside of her race. But she finished college and got her degree. With it came a new job, that requires her to closely with white men everyday. There are a couple of the guys that are rude to her, but they are rude to everyone. She has been aking my wife a lot of questions about interracial dating, etc. Seems there is a white guy in her office that she’s interested in.
Our neighbor, a white guy, all he can talk about this woman that just transferrd into his office. A black woman. All I hear from him, is how smart, or how funny she is. None of the usual rhetoric. When a persons environment changes, they are exposed to things they were not aware of before. Does this make any sense at all? To anyone?
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I really liked the descriptions of the men. Especially scuzzball. I’m a bw with wm. And I will say that unfortunately, it also depends on location. Dating in certain areas are better than dating in others.
I hate to say it, but ALOT of white men are afraid of the attention they’ll get. From black men, white women, white men and black women. An IR relationship is hard work, (same goes for any non-mainstream relationship-gay, old/young, etc..) and it takes courage to keep up with it — depending on where you are.
Because of violence, some white men think the worst– that they will get beat and killed by black men who disapprove or kicked out of the club by white men who don’t like it, or shunned and labeled a traitor by white women or laughed at by other black women who mock them. WHO would sign up for this?
When it all comes down to it, only those with pure hearts. Anything OTHER than that will FAIL. You will see it in their eyes, in their hesitance to go out, in their tone change around others, you will SEE it.
But apart from those guys, even the good white guys who WANT something serious with a bw hesitate because it all boils down to fear. Nobody wants to think they will be blacklisted and exiled just for dating– so some wm who strongly desire bw never express it because of this. Yes it’s cowardly, but who isn’t these days?
Some white men and black women as well do not want to have biracial kids because they are aware of racism and they think the kid will be targeted and killed, not because they just don’t want a mixed child.
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I think it makes sense ramblinrick, and I also agree with OP that BW/WM relationships aren’t a “science” to be labored over. You don’t need to work some kind of voodoo magic to get a Black girl/White guy; you just play up your attributes and they will come a-knocking, LOL.
I tend to be suspicious of people who talk and talk and talk about IR relationships: how to get one, things to worry about, what people will say, etc. I figure, with all of that talking what are you doing? You are never going to meet anyone (White, Black, whatever) if the closest you get to a relationship is discussing all the cons with strangers online.
I feel like my perspective is based a lot on my age; I’m only 20 and I’ve never really had any hangups about dating White guys (in fact, they are the only guys who ever hit on me). Doesn’t mean I’m ignorant of the historical bad blood, but I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt until my bs meter goes off.
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jasmine says,
the majority of black women dont give a damn what a white boy thinks about us
laromana says,
The point isn’t caring about what WM think about BW, it’s being viewed by MEN OF ALL RACES as WOMEN FIRST who are WORTHY of being LOVED, PURSUED, and MARRIED.
What abagond says (below) about ramblinrick clearly illustrates this point.
abagond says (CAPS MINE),
It seems that ramblinrick has the RIGHT outlook about dating black women. As far as I can remember, he DOES NOT EXOTICIZE them or STEREOTYPE them. He sees that THEY ARE WOMEN FIRST BEFORE ANYTHING ELSE.
peanut says (in response to the genralization below),
“Pretty much all black women hate white men. They see the white man as the oppressor and they see them as a reincarnation of Satan himself.”
not true…there are plenty of bw who just like men who are kind to them period…but if u go around thinking all bw hate wm, then those are the women you’re going to encounter more often than not…your not obligated to date black women, if its stressing you out, then don’t do it its that simple, but don’t blame all black women for your own personal hang ups…that’s all.
laromana says,
peanut,
Thanks for refuting a FALSE GENERALIZATION about BW and reminding EVERYONE of the FACT that BW (like women of ANY RACE) appreciate men of ANY RACE who treat them with KINDNESS/RESPECT and that BW don’t DESERVE to be BLAMED for OTHER PEOPLE’S PERSONAL HANGUPS about them.
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Where’s Luna?
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My wife told me I was the first and only white man she ever dated. Then she told me I was the best thing that ever happened to her. Whoa! Now the pressure is on. I must strive to be a better man and husband. But, it’s not that hard, I am the luckiest man on earth.
BlackwomanIR talks about mixed couples in fear. I know a little something about that. I am from Tennessee, and I have to say black men have never said a word to me. They have actually treated me with respect. There have only been a couple of incidents in my life. Believe it or not from two of my “friends”. They told me I shouldn’t date black women.(this happened 30 yrs ago) I told them if they thought my personal life was any of their buiness, step up. They did and we did. I was not the last one hurt. I cannot remember a time a black man ever said anything to me about dating a black woman. It always seemed to be my “friends”. My grandfather always told me to keep an on my friends and would not have to worry about enemies.
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Azrazyel
you say statistics don’t lie of course they do the person who writes the statistic to begin with will always favour their position.
For example if a white middle aged women carried out the study she’s not going to put down her own race so she can alter some parts to make certain people look better than others.
if everyone believed in statistics then you believe that the majority of peodiphiles and child molesters are white men. it’s a stereotype not every believes everything they read. the best way is to go out into the real world and experience it.
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Mayhue:
“Cane River by Lalita Tademy”
Read it. Loved it. Much better than Rice!
“What I find interesting about Arianna’s comments is that she is very emphatic about her preferences in the same manner that a lot of White guys are about there’s.
In addition, they love to stereotype Black women and just Black people to justify not seeing us as human… —but let a Black person do that to them—then all of sudden they hate being generalized—they are individual and how should any Black person dare to generalize them.”
Amen.
I found it especially interesting that she mentioned this:
“most of us have been taught at an early age that all white men want to do is use you.”
I actually stayed up all night thinking about this because it disturbs me (and I was never taught this). But I have to say that I agree with her on this in part. Not entirely, of course, because not all WM can be painted with the same brush. I’d even say THE MAJORITY are not like this. Although, it’s not just the white men but the women as well. Let me clarify:
Some white people still don’t see black people as REAL PEOPLE. Even if they profess to “like us” it’s in a patronizing or sexual way. It’s worse if you’re mixed-race, I think. We’re some sort of half-way house were they are often attracted to us because we “look white” but treat us with disdain and disrespect us like black people.
I’ve cut off all of my hair but before white women would often come up to me (often standing behind me in line somewhere) and touch my hair and gush about how beautiful it was. Not just touch the ends but stroke it or run their fingers through it. Do they think that it is alright to go up and fondle a complete stranger at Target? What are they thinking? I’ve asked WW friends I know if this happens to them and they just look at me as if I were crazy.
They try to do this to my children as well. Touch them, I mean. As if they were pets, instead of people. Touch their hair, their faces, their arms. I never allow them to touch my children! They get really angry when I tell them to leave my kids alone — as if they have some right to molest them. It’s sickening. And, interestingly, they NEVER do that when my husband is with them. EVER. It’d be one thing if they were babies but my oldest is 4 years old.
For instance,
Last week we (my 4 yo son and I) went to the post office together. While standing in line the woman behind us would not stop talking to my son and trying to touch him, even after I asked her to leave him alone, repeatedly. Then we left the building and another old white woman came RUNNING over to us from a parked car to gush, “Oh my! He’s so beautiful! Almost too pretty to be a boy. Look at those eyes! Is his father a white man?” I KID YOU NOT! She tried to touch my child and I told her, firmly, while walking away, that he didn’t want to be touched (as if the fact that he was cowering behind my legs wasn’t clear enough) and she got all huffy and said, “I was just trying to be nice!”
“I’m just trying to be nice!” is the female version of “You know you want it!”
It translates to: you are beneath me and therefore I have the right to touch you and use you as I like. I’ve had enough men say the latter to me to recognize the same note in the former. WM have been preying on me since I was 12 so I’m less inclined to give them the “benefit of the doubt”. Cynical, perhaps, but I have good reason to be. This hasn’t tainted my impression of “all WM” for the simple reason that I have many WM in my family so I’ve been exposed to some who are not predatory. But the other kind definitely exists, so BW would have to be naive not be on guard.
They do this because they can and they know they will get away from it.
“In my opinion, I think we will see more wm/bw couples, and subsequently mo e wm/bw marriages. When a persons environment changes, they are exposed to things they were not aware of before. Does this make any sense at all? To anyone?”
Yes! I get what you mean (environments are changing drastically that way) but that was also what I meant when I said IR was “contagious”. Don’t think that your relationship is not having an effect on the people around you.
It’s like with my cousin. Some of her aunts predicted the Armageddon when she brought home a WM. Now some of her BW cousins are also dating WM and their mothers don’t complain. After all, she lived through it without her husband cutting her up in pieces and serving her in his goulash. It turns out their personal Satan is, if anything, a homebody and rather boring but nice. The sheer banality of their relationship is rather convincing.
And now that I’m around they have two examples of BW who slept with WM and lived to see another day.
LOL!
“Apparently, being black and being from a poor area is considered “ghetto” by white people…
BUT being white and being from a village where plumbing and food is scarce is seen as “quaint” and “humble.” LOL!!!!”
So true! I had to laugh at that comparison.
I get really tired of the “ghetto” statements. Or the “only if they look like Halle Berry” comments. As if Halle would look twice at them! Come on, they are dreaming!
“If you want the most success with women just keep your dating pool large. I like black women probably as much as the rest of the guys on here; however, I broaden my horizons to find the best available and most compatible mate that I can.”
Good advice for anyone.
“If I was an American woman, I’d emmigrate.”
Hear, hear! Best thing I ever did was to leave the country.
It wasn’t until I left this place that I realized how badly I am treated here. I’m already fed up and want to go back.
“if everyone believed in statistics then you believe that the majority of peodiphiles and child molesters are white men”
That’s because the majority of attacks that ARE REPORTED are against white children and THEIR attackers tend to be WM. Violence against blacks (or most non-whites) is grossly under reported, even when the perpetrator is black.
Lies, damn lies, and statistics. I used to work with statistics a lot and it’s amazing how the result can change by manipulating the variables. There’s also the matter of presentation. You can make differences seem larger or smaller by zooming in or out on the scale (done often with bar diagrams).
Sometimes I’d be giving a presentation and completely explain a diagram and everybody would get very excited and start debating “what it meant” and “how they expected this result” and then I’d notice that a variable had been inputted wrong or was missing or added unnecessarily and I’d go back and edit it. As soon as they saw the new diagram they would begin again with, “Of course this is the logical results because…” Or better yet, they would refute the new diagram because it didn’t match their preconceived notions. People are like that.
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Sorry if it was TMI above but I just wanted to make the point that racially-motivated predatory behaviour EXISTS and shouldn’t be blown off as if it doesn’t matter. It does matter. And it taints the view others have of our interracial marriages.
And remember that the same sort of predation happens to other dark-skinned minority women. I have Hispanic and Asian friends and they can tell you their fair share of horror stories.
I’m actually surprised at how many BW online I’ve heard negate this kind of thing. They must be very, very lucky.
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Black&German,
I do understand my relationship effects people around me. Now, whether that is a positive or negative is strictly up to them, becuse I could care less. You know, I envy the people whose lives are in such perfect order, all they have to do is tell someone else how to live their lives. Right now I am dealing with unemployment, paying bills, fixing the car, etc.
Azrazyel wants to find where the racism inside him comes from. C’mon now, it’s not that hard. People are certainly not born that way. If it’s not in the family, just look around. My parents strictly believed races should not mix. But, my whole life I never heard my parents use the N word or talk bad about black people. I did hear it daily in other aspects of my life, school, and even in church. Racism isn’t hiding in the bushes or under a rock, it is in your face everyday. No matter what some people say,it’s not thay hard to rise above racism.
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“Racism isn’t hiding in the bushes or under a rock, it is in your face everyday.”
Very true. Sadly.
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“People are certainly not born that way.”
True, but children apparently start seeing race and even discriminate based on it from a very early age.
http://www.newsweek.com/id/214989
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white boys do not view Black women as ugly. i dont know who came up with that lie. white boys are just mad because black women arent like white women that will screw any old damn body. white women let black men sit up on them and not work or contribute to the household expenses just so they can say the got a black man (and this is actually what goes on in MOST bm/ww couples). but i will say one thing about white boys, they will defend them white whores. its like they think they are fooling someboby coming to the defense of ww to black people. earth to white boy: black people know the sluts your white women are.
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Jasmine,
Now, tell us how you really feel.
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lol at Jasmine,
Sounds like your beef is with black men and not white men. White men can’t do anything about black men not defending black women. What you said about white women and black men can equally go for black women and black men.
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Read it. Loved it. Much better than Rice!
I so agree. I saw on her website that she has newish book, titled Red River. I haven’t been able to get that one yet but it is in my library so I’ll check it out.
“Red River also takes place in Louisiana, and is also a historical novel, based on real events during Reconstruction after the Civil War, a time period and subject matter often summarily skimmed in our history books. The story of Red River begins in 1873, and follows the ramifications of an incident on Easter Sunday of that year on successive generations of two families involved.”
http://www.lalitatademy.com/redriver.html
******************************************
I’ve cut off all of my hair but before white women would often come up to me (often standing behind me in line somewhere) and touch my hair and gush about how beautiful it was. Not just touch the ends but stroke it or run their fingers through it. Do they think that it is alright to go up and fondle a complete stranger at Target? What are they thinking? I’ve asked WW friends I know if this happens to them and they just look at me as if I were crazy.
Its amazing that you are talking about how White people other Black people as Animals that they can gape at like in a zoo. A blogger name Lost Angelista who is also mixed had the same exact experience that you had recently which she posted on her blog:
http://www.losangelista.com/2009/09/no-you-cant-touch-my-hair.html
A few minutes later, a woman, a white woman, approached me, her hand extended toward my head. “Ooh your hair is sooo pretty. Can I touch it?”
I immediately leaned away out of her reach and said, “No.”
Her response? A shocked and outraged, “Are you serious? I can’t touch your hair?”
“No, you can’t,” I replied. I guess she’s never seen my #donotpetmyafro hashtag on Twitter.
Indeed, she had the nerve to look confused and offended as she asked, “Why not?”
Really, lady? You want me to explain to you why I don’t want you to touch my hair? Let’s see…
Because you’re a STRANGER.
Because I’m not an animal in the zoo.
Because this is my body and I don’t have to let anybody touch any part of it, EVER, if I don’t want to.
Because my black ancestors may have been your ancestors property, and had to smile while they got touched in ways they didn’t want to, but I am not YOUR property and never will be so you’d best move your hand away from me.
I was so overwhelmed by anger that my mouth opened and no sound came out. I think my eyes must’ve had shown what I was feeling because she made this weird face, turned on her heel and huffily walked back over to her towel.
Unfortunately her towel was maybe 10 feet away from mine. Just great.
The pool was closing in 20 minutes so I yelled a five minute warning to my kids and got busy packing up our stuff. That’s when I overheard the woman talking smack about me to her child.
“I’m a nice person and I try so hard to be nice to THEM, but I’m tired of trying to be nice to bitchy black women.”
******************************************
The amazing thing is that Whit people automatically think that they have complete ownership of your body. From the scuzzeball White guy who wants to sample a Black woman and that any Black woman should be flattered even when he looks like a troll to the white woman who condescends to compliment you on your hair or whatever—since Black women are perceived as ugly anyway and White woman no matter trollish she looks, feels that she is always better looking than a Black woman.
It’s the nauseating level of entitlement that continues the cycle of racism. Until White people are able to see Black people as individual and as human as them—things will never change. In fact it has only gotten worse and we revert back to a cultural anarchy. Which is why I honestly think it takes a certain type of White person to engage in IR. Very few have the stomach, empathy, and ability to treat Black people humanely it’s impossible in a system that reinforces their superiority and corrosive entitlement.
Your experience is so unfortunate and I do feel sad that you had to deal with being seen as an object, especially if you area really pretty that makes it much worse for Black women, but you are right that Black women also suffer the indignities—the thing is many of us don’t talk about it and so the cycle continues.
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I can definitely relate about the hair. I currently wear my hair in a fro, a rather large one when picked out and usually the ones who ask to touch it are white. Now mind you I get compliments from all races, but whites are the only ones who think that they can touch it. Sometimes I want to give them the benefit of the doubt and think that they are just curious but sometimes its hard to give them even that. One time in my acting class, this old white man actually put his hand in my hair, and it took everything in me not to slap him back into the Jim Crow era.
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“I’m a nice person and I try so hard to be nice to THEM, but I’m tired of trying to be nice to bitchy black women.”
Wow, that’s unbelieveable. Though I’ve never experienced that from white women, when I don’t straighten my hair and wear it curly, black men do that quite a bit.
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And it’s still annoying because I don’t know where their hands have been.
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Mayhue, excellent comment: the way you drew the comparison between hair and scuzzball white men.
I saw that Los Angelista post. It is excellent. Macon D cross-posted it on Stuff White People Do and has 57 comments.
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Nice to know it’s not just me with the hair thing. I KNEW I was onto something with that!
“The amazing thing is that White people automatically think that they have complete ownership of your body.”
That’s the thing a lot of BW don’t seem to realize. They think it’s about sex but it isn’t. It’s about denying the humanity of black people.
“Jasmine,
Now, tell us how you really feel.”
LOL! Yeah, really Jasmine. It wasn’t quite clear enough. Someone might have misunderstood.
“Which is why I honestly think it takes a certain type of White person to engage in IR.”
Agreed. And THIS is the reason that there are so few WM/BW marriages. Both parties have so many ingrained issues.
This thread has been so interesting for me. It wasn’t until writing all of that stuff that I realized: I’ve never been in a serious relationship with a “real” white American. I’ve dated (long-term) 3 men in my life and the first (during high school in Texas) was half-German/half-American and was born and raised in Germany, one was English, and the last (my husband) is German. I hadn’t even realized that.
So perhaps I have more “issues” with white American men than I thought. That’s funny. I’ve always thought of myself as enlightened but being afraid of someone just because he has a Southern accent is hardly enlightened. Thanks, Abagond. You’ve made me realize I’m a bigot. Geez.
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Black&German,
If some people are afraid of a southern accent, I’m certainly glad no one here can hear me talk. I have a very distinct accent. But, rest assured I do not use the confederate flag for bedroom curtains, there is no gun rack in the truck window, I don’t chew redman, and I have only one first name.
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“Which is why I honestly think it takes a certain type of White person to engage in IR.”
I said in one of my earliest posts on this topic, perhaps my first post on Agabond, that the most fundamental part of being in WM/BW relationships is viewing black people as individual human beings. Many white people seem unable to do this. White people are terrified of race, they walk on eggshells around black people. It’s anathema to any real human relationship between individuals.
When I read Azrazyel’s posts I hear this.
Let me say this to white guys interested in dating BW. I’m just an average guy. Not especially socially outgoing, not unusually handsome, not rich, not famous. In my approach to women, I’m the “normal guy” described in one of Agabond’s posts. I’ve found myself in the dreaded “friend zone” many times with women of all races. Yet I’ve dated quite a number of BW, including BW from the projects and BW from well to do families and everything in between. The difference between me and the guys who want to do this but don’t is that I’ve learned to cast aside my white race paranoia and view black people as individual, equal human beings, no different from myself.
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ramblinrick Says:
Black&German,
If some people are afraid of a southern accent, I’m certainly glad no one here can hear me talk. I have a very distinct accent. But, rest assured I do not use the confederate flag for bedroom curtains, there is no gun rack in the truck window, I don’t chew redman, and I have only one first name.
lol!!!
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Abagond, why don’t you write a blog on black men/white women couples?
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Blanc2,
What you say is true. The word terrified may be a little strong. But, there are a lot of white people that do not want to discuss race. They become really uncomfortable talking about race. It seems from posts I have read, the one thing a black woman hates is not being treated as an individual. But, reading posts by some black women they tend to think of ALL white men as being the same. Whether we like it or not, we all are a lot alike. For my own curiosity I have asked white friends had they ever considered dating a black woman? Their answer was they never thought about dating outside of their race at all. They had no opinion of black women,or asia,etc.
When I read Azrazyel’s post I hear a white guy with one of those “make myself feel good speeches”. Just my opinion, I have no idea what’s really in his heart.
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Perhaps because that topic has already been discussed ad nauseam elsewhere.
“If some people are afraid of a southern accent, I’m certainly glad no one here can hear me talk.”
LOL!
Although I have to admit that the Southern accent can be very sexy/charming. I just have a strong negative association with it, after my experiences living in Texas. Not that other men can’t be dogs but at least they’re less likely to be werewolves. (I’m enjoying the metaphor completely.)
I do have to say, as much as I rag on Southerners at least the WM there are good-looking. Texas, in particular, seems to have been won the genetic lottery, as far as appearance goes (male and female). The WM around here… nothing to write home about. The women either, for that matter. Attractive people really stand out here whereas in Texas that was normal. Texas women are hands-down the best looking.
And what’s up with the general lack of manners here? Where are the gentlemen?
LOL! I’m so difficult to please.
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That Azyrael dude has major racial issues. There were red flags all along. He lived in segregated surroundings, hold negative stereotypes about Black women and Black people in general, uses racial slurs, have an entitlement mentality, had no Black friends, and is a misogynist.
His views are shared by many white folk. He’s like Don Imus without the guts.
La Reyna
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I found some hateful comments on the AR, a conservative blog journal.
The following comments are by several affluent WM regarding Black women/White men intermarriage:
“I heard group of young, good looking, White males last week in a upscale restaurant discussing Michelle Obama, Anglea Bassett, Halle Berry, Vanessa Williams, Beverly Johnson and some other Black women they personally knew.
They were going on and on about how they would have no problem dating or marrying these women. Some of them were apparently involved with Black women. I was digusted to hear such talkand ate my food as fast as I could so I could not have to hear such comments from obviously prideless White men.
We White often conrtibute to our demise.”
by Pragmatic Race Man
“Pragmatic Race Man:
I live in a area where there is a visible amount of White male/Black female relationships. The majority of them are upper income couples.
It does make you wonder why this is happening”
***
“That will not happen anytime soon. African blacks almost literally worship their half-breed mongrels and know their simian like features do not fare well in international beauty contests.
One could only imagine the glee of this half-breed’s mother marrying a white male.
A white spouse is the ultimate status symbol in Africa, meaning less uglier children and the ability to live abroad, and ironically, in the nicer parts of their native country. ”
***
“Looks like some white genes died in one of her parents.
Given this woman’s last name, it appears that it was a white male who has wiped out his family line and devolved back to Africa via miscegenation.”
***
“Here’s one White man who instinctively recoils when he sees a White man with a Black woman. He could have created Whites and he chose to create Blacks. Sickening.
Posted by Anonymous ”
These mofos are so bothered by White men dating/marrying Black and multiracial Black women. Too bad! It’s going to happen whether you like it or not. Yes, contrary to some, plenty of white bigots out there who are very much threatened by White men dating/marrying Black women and having multiracial children as well. These people are not run of the mill types one finds at Stormfront. They are middle to upper class, well-educated, well-heeled intellectual types. They are far more dangerous, for they are the ones who are running things in American society.
I hope Evia and her Something New followers read the above posts from such so-called gentlemen.
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I wonder if this blog will get over 500 comments.
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Black&German,
WHOA! C’mon now, Texans already have an inflated ego. Let’s not pump it up more. Just funnin’. I have a lot friends in Texas, as a matter of fact I will be heading there in a few hours to go to work. I really hate working down south, but these are trying times.
La Reyna,
I agree with you. I am proud to say I’m from Tennessee, and so glad I can say I’m not from Akron, OH. Last year I worked on a powerhouse in a small southeastern Ohio town. I saw more confederate flags there in 6 mos. than the last 20 yrs down south. They are quick to tell you, that is where the south begins. They say they are not closely related there, but a lot of them sure look alike. There family tree must look like a light pole.
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Undoubtedly.
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The “undoubtedly” comment was for:
“I wonder if this blog will get over 500 comments.”
But it ended up applying to your comments, as well, Rick.
Texas: it’s like a whole ‘nother country!
LOL! Oh, man. I lived there for over 5 years and went to high school there. I was on the drill team so I was in the football-mania. God, the men there are good-looking. Like wet-my-pants fine, the bastards.
I have friends I visit in Tennessee. Plenty of attractive men there (hordes in comparison to here!) but no place comes close to Texas. Really. It must be in the water. LOL!
Perhaps it’s because Texas is so diverse. Even the white people there are a mixture of different ethnic groups rather than Amish-escapees like around here. The wider gene pool has definitely not harmed Dixie…
“I saw more confederate flags there in 6 mos. than the last 20 yrs down south.”
You are telling the truth! Geez. I have to say that I’ve seen more of them here in northern Maryland than in 5 years in Texas. I did not expect that! Don’t they realize that this was a Union state?
“They say they are not closely related there, but a lot of them sure look alike. There family tree must look like a light pole.”
Here, too. Maybe that’s the big turn-off for me. Everyone looks the same here. Dull, dull, dull. It’s even worse as you head towards West Virginia.
In Texas it was like, “You want a blond? Here’s a blond. Want a redhead? Here’s a redhead. Have a thing for brunettes? Here you go! You like them dark, light, brown, black, yellow, red? Blue eyes, brown eyes, green eyes? Step right up and take your pick!” LOL! Okay, I’m just being silly now. But really, it’s like an ethnic smorgasbord.
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Oh, well. I’m happily married so it doesn’t really matter. But the occasional bit of eye candy would be nice. :-p I’m married but I’m not dead.
Although if you’re looking for fine, quality black men Maryland is THE PLACE. Two words for you: Silver Springs.
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Black&German Says:
Although if you’re looking for fine, quality black men Maryland is THE PLACE. Two words for you: Silver Springs.
Forget the U.S., come to England. I’m all the quality “black guy” a woman ever needs. I’ll show you ladies why British “engineering” is the finest in the world!!!
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Actually, yes. I agree about England. LOL!
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La Reyna says:
That Azyrael dude has major racial issues. There were red flags all along. He lived in segregated surroundings, hold negative stereotypes about Black women and Black people in general, uses racial slurs, have an entitlement mentality, had no Black friends, and is a misogynist.
His views are shared by many white folk. He’s like Don Imus without the guts.
laromana says,
LaReyna,
I totally agree with your characterization of Azyrael. I’ve been a poster on abagond’s blog for almost a year and, for the FIRST TIME EVER, I was PERSONALLY ATTACKED by this QUESTIONABLE INDIVIDUAL for RIGHTFULLY challenging his CLEARLY RACIST, ANTI-BW views. This, coupled with his alternating belief in ANTI-BW STEREOTYPES followed by his phony apologies and justifications for these views, definitely raised a red flag in my mind about his true intentions towards BW.
Despite his claims of “supposed interest” in BW, Azyrael’s RACIST, ANTI-BW words/unwillingness to ACTUALLY pursue BW indeed showed him to be an arrogant, presumptuos, dishonest, passive-agressive, misogynist.
Blanc2 says:
“Which is why I honestly think it takes a certain type of White person to engage in IR.”
I said in one of my earliest posts on this topic, perhaps my first post on Agabond, that the most fundamental part of being in WM/BW relationships is viewing black people as individual human beings. Many white people seem unable to do this. White people are terrified of race, they walk on eggshells around black people. It’s anathema to any real human relationship between individuals.
When I read Azrazyel’s posts I hear this.
Let me say this to white guys interested in dating BW. I’m just an average guy. Not especially socially outgoing, not unusually handsome, not rich, not famous. In my approach to women, I’m the “normal guy” described in one of Agabond’s posts. I’ve found myself in the dreaded “friend zone” many times with women of all races. Yet I’ve dated quite a number of BW, including BW from the projects and BW from well to do families and everything in between. The difference between me and the guys who want to do this but don’t is that I’ve learned to cast aside my white race paranoia and view black people as individual, equal human beings, no different from myself.
laromana says(caps mine),
Thanks for reminding WM who GENUINELY want to date BW of the CRITICAL FACT that they MUST “CAST ASIDE their WHITE RACE PARANOIA and VIEW BLACK PEOPLE AS INDIVIDUAL, EQUAL HUMAN BEINGS, NO DIFFERENT FROM THEM”.
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I bet this will be moderated… LOL!
I thought, for the sake of furthering the cause of BW/WM interracial marriage, I’d offer my tips to white men on:
What NOT to say to a BW if you want to date her (or just not get bitch-slapped)
— The best thing about BW is their asses. Is it true you like anal?
— I prefer BW because WW are such prudes.
— I like BW. Just not the ghetto ones.
— Hey, you’re pretty! You look just like Halle Berry.
(Or whatever famous BW you can think of. They all look alike, right?)
— You know you want it! Everybody knows BW can’t get enough.
— What do you mean you don’t want to date me? You should be happy I even asked!
— How about we get to know each other a little better? You know, go to my place. No? What if I pay you?
— I’ve always wanted to know what it’s like to do it with a black girl.
— My friend over there just came back from [some overseas country] and he’s looking for some female company. You’re very pretty. How much?
— I don’t usually like BW but you’re different. You’ve got class.
— I heard your boyfriend is white. So, you like white dick? Want some of mine?
— [If they refuse to go out with you, slam them against the wall and scream in their face.] You think you’re too good for me?
— So, if BM have such big dicks doesn’t that mean BW… ?
— Don’t go acting all uppity.
— Oh, God. My dad would totally kill me if he knew I was talking to you.
and, my personal all-time favorite:
— You know, if I knocked you up our babies would look white.
Oh, yeah. Those southerners can really charm a girl right off her feet. *retch*
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I’m baaack! I know my comments were rather inflammatory but I’m not one for sugarcoating, I’d rather keep it real. While I’m aware that every white man in America is not like that, there are more than a few that are and that’s why I feel the way I do. Not only was I taught this way at home, but I do have real life experiences from working, going to school, and socializing with white people. A lot of these other comments kind of reiterate my point.
Also it’s very ironic that the main guy arguing with me and trying to disprove my statements about white men later made racial slurs about black women. So yeah, thanks for proving my point.
I don’t hate anyone, hating takes too much energy and I’m not blocking my blessings for anybody. But I am pretty mistrustful of white people’s intentions as a whole and honestly it’s for good reason.
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“I hope Evia and her Something New followers read the above posts from such so-called gentlemen.”
When did Evia or her “Something New followers” ever say that all white men were knights in shining armor? That none were racist?
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Black&German, you had me laughing my ass off. I shouldn’t, though. I guess there are guys out there who really say stuff like that.
I used to have a humorous list of “tips” for WM dating BW. I’ve forgotten most of them, but here are a couple that I can recall:
1. No matter what, never, ever, play a practical joke on your black GF that involves getting her hair wet when she doesn’t expect it (like throwing her into a swimming pool).
2. All BW love Luther Vandross. I don’t mean they love the music of Luther Vandross. That’s fine. Luther made great music. I mean they love Luther, the man himself. As in they want his babies. “He’s so sensitive.” Hello? Ladies? The man is (was) gay. As in not interested in the punani.
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La Reyna Says:
Tue 22 Sep 2009 at 16:26:13
I found some hateful comments on the AR, a conservative blog journal.
The following comments are by several affluent WM regarding Black women/White men intermarriage:
“I heard group of young, good looking, White males last week in a upscale restaurant discussing Michelle Obama, Anglea Bassett, Halle Berry, Vanessa Williams, Beverly Johnson and some other Black women they personally knew.
They were going on and on about how they would have no problem dating or marrying these women. Some of them were apparently involved with Black women. I was digusted to hear such talkand ate my food as fast as I could so I could not have to hear such comments from obviously prideless White men.
We White often conrtibute to our demise.”
by Pragmatic Race Man
“Pragmatic Race Man:
I live in a area where there is a visible amount of White male/Black female relationships. The majority of them are upper income couples.
It does make you wonder why this is happening”
***
“That will not happen anytime soon. African blacks almost literally worship their half-breed mongrels and know their simian like features do not fare well in international beauty contests.
One could only imagine the glee of this half-breed’s mother marrying a white male.
A white spouse is the ultimate status symbol in Africa, meaning less uglier children and the ability to live abroad, and ironically, in the nicer parts of their native country. ”
***
“Looks like some white genes died in one of her parents.
Given this woman’s last name, it appears that it was a white male who has wiped out his family line and devolved back to Africa via miscegenation.”
***
“Here’s one White man who instinctively recoils when he sees a White man with a Black woman. He could have created Whites and he chose to create Blacks. Sickening.
Posted by Anonymous ”
These mofos are so bothered by White men dating/marrying Black and multiracial Black women. Too bad! It’s going to happen whether you like it or not. Yes, contrary to some, plenty of white bigots out there who are very much threatened by White men dating/marrying Black women and having multiracial children as well. These people are not run of the mill types one finds at Stormfront. They are middle to upper class, well-educated, well-heeled intellectual types. They are far more dangerous, for they are the ones who are running things in American society.
The same comments are said in the UK about BW. The only types that appeals to WM particularly those from the middle to upper classes are the mixed-raced women because their features fix into the dominate beauty standard.
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“White people are terrified of race, they walk on eggshells around black people. It’s anathema to any real human relationship between individuals.”
Truer words were never spoken. A good friend of mine that I have known most of my life, comes in throws around racial slurs of us “White Devils” all that time and yes I retort back with all just as much racism. He is like my brother and I would kill for him.
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“Black&German, you had me laughing my ass off. I shouldn’t, though. I guess there are guys out there who really say stuff like that.”
Yeah, it’s funny but it’s like laugh-cringe-laugh-cringe. Didn’t know if abagond would let me post that one. LOL! Too inflammatory.
All true-to-life quotes (from my friends and I). The last one (about babies) was actually after dating him for a few weeks, sitting in a nice restaurant. I nearly choked to death on my pasta. What the hell was he thinking? I didn’t stay to find out.
I’d heard that some WM think that BW are whores but I thought that just meant “easy”. I didn’t know that they assumed we were ACTUALLY PROSTITUTES. And that the “nice” looking ones are just expensive prostitutes. The first time I was propositioned I just stared like a deer in headlines. I thought it was a bad joke, or something.
I once had a drunk guy in a bar stick 10 dollars in my pants and ask me to dance for him. Umm… Sure, honey. Just let me find that pole I always carry with me…
I do have to say that the guy who slammed me against the wall was hyped up on something. Crystal, probably. That stuff makes people crazy. And horny. Baaaaaad combination.
Although I must admit I’ve had BM make some similarly *ahem* inappropriate comments, as well.
The most amazing thing is WHERE some of these comments were made. Like in the hallway outside of a database management seminar or at the company Christmas party. Some men have no shame.
“I mean they love Luther, the man himself.”
Luther Vandross was gay?!!! Oh, man. You really ruined that for me. The only thing worse you could say is that Denzel swings the other way, too. LOL! Don’t mess with my Denzel!
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Charming, classy, uplifting comments BM often make when a mixed-race BW turns them down:
— I always knew you were an Oreo.
— Don’t do black guys, do you? Think you’re too good for a nigger?
— What, I don’t have enough money?
— You think you’re all that but you’re just a white man’s whore.
— I heard your boyfriend is white. You’ll be back when you want some good dick.
and, my personal all-time favorite:
— It’s bitches like you that make me date white women.
Yes, I went there.
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B&G,
You should entertain the idea of becoming a comedianne! LOL.
Blanc2,
I get the “fun” angle of what you’re saying. Yet, in all seriousness, every black women is very different. Many like to get their hair wet BELIEVE IT OR NOT(!). Many are more “Manilow” than “Vandross”. Too much diversity among people of all races to pigeonhole!
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Thank you Abagond for banning that racist/sexist bigot Azyrael. His hateful views of Blacks and women are hurtful and was meant to be because he cannot accept the fact that women and Blacks are not going to bow dow to his racist and misogynistic views and whiny entitlement.
He’s a George Sodini in the making.
La Reyna
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abagond…i’m naming my goldfish after you…my favorite blog owner
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La Reyna Says:
Thank you Abagond for banning that racist/sexist bigot Azyrael. His hateful views of Blacks and women are hurtful and was meant to be because he cannot accept the fact that women and Blacks are not going to bow dow to his racist and misogynistic views and whiny entitlement.
He’s a George Sodini in the making.
laromana says,
abagond,
I join LaReyna in thanking you for banning Azyrael from your excellent blog.
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Ok so I know I missed a bit. I did remember reading some of the racist bile Azyrael spewed and him even snapping at a couple people like Lynette and Laromana. Abagond, what did he do to finally get banned (not that I’m complaining 😀 )?
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Well, truth be told, he is not banned! He was on the point of leaving a few times, but I think it was Arianna’s stereotyping of white men – a taste of his own medicine – that drove him away.
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peanut:
“abagond…i’m naming my goldfish after you…my favorite blog owner”
LOL! What an honor!
But, really. He’s great. Is there an award we can nominate him for?
mynameismyname:
“You should entertain the idea of becoming a comedianne! LOL.”
Just thought I’d say it like it is. On here we often speak in euphemisms: “They don’t respect us.”, “They think they can use us.”, etc. But nobody says what THEY ARE ACTUALLY SAYING/DOING. That’s why guys like Azyrael ask us dumb questions like “Why are black girls taught at a young age that ‘beware of the white man’ because he wants to use you?”. Umm… maybe because it’s often TRUE. Duh.
Next time someone makes a comment like that we can refer them to the list(s) above. You should email the list to Azyrael, Abagond.
You think that stuff is bad you should hear what they say to a Filipino friend of mine. Too vulgar and demeaning to even write.
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It’s because they grow up hearing crap like that that BW don’t trust WM. It’s often not until they work closely with one or meet a nice one through friends or church that they find out: “Hey, they aren’t all crazed rapist psychos! Some of them are actually normal and sane.” But experience has taught them to sleep with one eye open, just in case.
Remember, the normal white guys aren’t nearly as visible or vocal to BW as the jerks.
I think it’s similar for WW/BM. Some WW don’t know any BM except the ones that “holla” at them in the street or they see on the nightly crime report.
We’ve got a long way to go before we get post-racial, I think.
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Black&German:
Can I make your list a post?
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Peanut:
What a thought! A goldfish named after me! Thank you.
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Lynette:
I do not remember that. Which comment was it? I clearly remember him being rude to Laromana. I had to delete some of his comments and warn him.
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“Can I make your list a post?”
Sure. If you have the stomach for it.
“Lynette: I do not remember that.”
Me neither.
I do have to admit that I often don’t read posts that have been moderated because it sometimes takes so long for them to show up that the conversation has already moved on.
Didn’t know you had to delete some of his comments, Abagond. His true nature didn’t become clear to me (yes, I’m naive which is probably why I get into so much trouble) until he wrote:
“That quote can also be attributed to a black woman possibly ‘doing’ or ’saying’ something offensive and a white man can also blow up and use racist words.”
I was like, huh? Behaving in a violent manner towards a woman (even if it’s only verbally) is uncool, dude. No matter what she said.
I thought maybe he didn’t understand what I meant but then he didn’t respond to my clarification. I think he understood me the first time.
And then excusing the slave trade? What the crap?!
After that, when he said he was leaving my thought was, “Don’t let the door hit your butt on the way out.”
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Black & German: I’ve heard anecdotes like yours from many BW. It really amazes me to hear what some men will say to women. In a similar vein, this happened to a white female friend whose boyfriend was black. At a club, when the boyfriend was in the loo, another black guy approached her: “You like that big black dick, don’t you. Well, baby, my dick is so big I’m gonna touch your heart.”
He was actually serious when he said that. I don’t think he expected that we would find it ridiculously hilarious and crack up laughing — at him not with him.
On a more serious note, I will say that, being one of the “normal nice guy” WM who dated BW, I often faced layers of emotional armor built up from similar statements by racists and idiots who came along before me.
As to Azrazyel’s statement about “blowing up and using racist words,” I was also incredulous. You don’t do this by accident. People tend to show their true colors when they’re angry. If racist words are on your lips in those moments, they’re in your thoughts the rest of the time. I’ve never, not once, used a racist slur toward a BW, no matter how angry I’ve been.
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Black&German Says:
Charming, classy, uplifting comments BM often make when a mixed-race BW turns them down:
– I always knew you were an Oreo.
– Don’t do black guys, do you? Think you’re too good for a N word?
– What, I don’t have enough money?
– You think you’re all that but you’re just a white man’s whore.
– I heard your boyfriend is white. You’ll be back when you want some good dick.
and, my personal all-time favorite:
– It’s bitches like you that make me date white women.
Yes, I went there.
I’ve used the second from last one when I asked out this fine looking mixed raced chick. She said “I’ll never let a N word touch me!!!” That hurt a lot!
Jokes on her though all she seems to date are chavs and wife-beaters. Oh well!!!
Oh btw this is a chav:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chav
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Blanc2:
“Black & German: I’ve heard anecdotes like yours from many BW. It really amazes me to hear what some men will say to women.”
Thank you!
Actually, when I posted the list I expected to receive lots of “That’s ridiculous. WM don’t really say things like that.” But when nobody wrote that I thought: Okay. Then it’s not just me, is it?
“I often faced layers of emotional armor built up from similar statements by racists and idiots who came along before me.”
Yes, that’s the problem, isn’t it? You mean well but when she’s already got her back up it’s hard to get through.
“If racist words are on your lips in those moments, they’re in your thoughts the rest of the time.”
Yes, that’s what’s so scary about it. You’re with them for a while and then they bust out with something like that and you can’t help but think: That’s what you’ve been thinking the whole time, isn’t it?
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Lynette Says:
Gen,
Wow! I think you were the only one to notice how rude Azrazyel was toward me. I made one factual statement that was not intended to hurt anyone. After using one of his stereotypes to describe me, I decided at that point that I would never entertain conversation with him again. I live in Mississippi; therefore, I deal with this mindset too frequently. At any rate, I was more upset that there appeared to be a desperate attempt by some of the women on the thread to gain his attention even after he was so blatantly rude to me (a Black woman) and others. It left a really bad taste in my mouth. I wondered why it was that crucial to gain acceptance from this White male who had obvious hatred toward Black females.
laromana says,
abagond and Gen,
Thanks for noticing/acknowledging Azrazyel’s BLATANT ANTI-BW RACISM/RUDENESS towards Lynette and me.
Lynette,
I agree 100% with your comment above. I, too was disturbed by the seeming attempt by certain women on the thread to gain the acceptance of this OBVIOUS ANTI-BW RACIST/HATER. After his VICIOUS, UNCALLED FOR ATTACK/DISRESPECT towards me (and other BW on this blog), I, too, decided NOT to converse with him again.
I also noted that his ANTI-BW words, attitudes, and actions on this blog were AT ODDS with his “SUPPOSED ATTRACTION/LOVE of BW”. Clearly, ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS and Azrazyel’s OBVIOUS CONTEMPT for BW (and Black people) spoke volumes.
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I made some of Black&German’s comments here into a post:
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Lynette,
You’re welcome and I feel the same about your posts.
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Hey.
I don’t expect sympathy or acceptance or even a pity-party for what I am going to say:
I have come back one last time to apologize for the offensive comments I have made. I have admittedly shown, and knowingly, much hatred here on this board.
I know (and sadly to admit) I have racist thoughts and I have a long way to go to somehow heal my inner conflict.
These words may seem distorted and masked to all in here. I laid it out without wanting acceptance for my behavior.
You can hate me or accept my apologies and still hate me to which I completely understand.
I wish you all good luck in all you do.
May God bless.
Peace.
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Give it time, Azrazyel.
If you are genuine about the apology, people will accept it.
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wow this topic got out of hand lol
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Thank you Abagond for making this blog its greatly appreciated. These to me are the types of topics that should be talked about but never or seldom are. Before i finish my comment let me apologize in advance if i come across rude to anyone Im a very attractive Black women who is educated I dont fit any of the “Black, ghetto, baby momma sterotypes. but on to my main point:
1.) THE SCUZZ BALL I personally feel this type of man comes in all colors, shapes, and sizes but as far as a white man approaching me and he has this type of mentality I can see right through it because typically white men dont have enough gumption or confidence to approach me like that so im figuring someone must of put him up to it or one of his frat buddies bet him he cant “Bang” a black chick. Basically i know they’re trying to prove something to themselves.
2.)NORMAL “WHITE GUY” Where im from there are alot of attractive Black women and i honestly feel in my heart and soul that deep ,deep down WM desire us especially the dark sistas. I mean the way they look at us sometimes is daunting its a look between them not being sure of themselves, and downright lust. For so long alot of WM thought all BW were loud, ghetto,unattractive, which is not true at all but when they finally see a BW who doesnt fit that descripton they dont know how to approach but they wish they had the guts to do it Just a note for the white guys Sistas like confident direct men. Not timid men.
3.)THE FRIENDS GUY This to me actually isnt a bad way to start off as long as your genuine because i dont think you could ever have to many friends. Just dont spend to much time trying to convince me your not a racist and were good.
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A agree with you, Nubian Queen.
“Where would our customers come from since we are so ugly and no one wants us like the white men say!”
Fact: most prostitutes in the inner-cities are non-white (sad to say) and most johns are white (they come in from the suburbs). But WW are considered “premium” and can command higher prices. With black and Latina prostitutes, the lighter their skin, the higher the price. It’s like in the slave days.
And then there’s this:
http://www.whataboutourdaughters.com/2008/12/12-year-old-black-girl-tight-shorts-prostitute-in-galveston-tx/
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Black&German,
I loved your list of things not to say. I can’t imagine any woman of any color tolerating comments like that from any man. But, I’m sure plenty of men have said those things,as there are probably some women out there that think such comments are “cute” or “funny”.
Nubian Queen,
I really appreciate your comments on the three types of white guys.
I think Azrazyel will justify his comments by telling himself, “All them black bitches made me say those things.”
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ramblinrick:
In case you do not know, I made that list into its own post:
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LOL, ramblinrick!
And, yes, unfortunately there are women who think that kind of thing is cute. They’re flattered when men comment on their behinds or brag about BW’s supposed sexual prowess.
I’ve actually met BW who have “white-looking babies” as a goal. So pathetic.
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Thanks abagond, just now got back online. I have to check that out.
Black&German,
I know exactly what you mean. Many years ago I was approched by a woman and she flat told me that she wanted a half white baby. I didn’t hang around to hear the rest of the story. At my age, if anyone comes knocking on my door calling me daddy, well they’re just a little late
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I feel these discussions about why so few white marry black women is very boring and pointless and what do they really achieve. Poor black women, it is such a pity party for us. We can’t get anyone, no know likes us, and we should be grateful for the scapes. Now am I supposed to say ‘It’s so hard for a black woman to get a man’.
Black women are not just one group, the only thing, they have in common is their skin colour, but they are individuals. They come from different parts of the world. They will be some who are attracted to white men and they will get married and have children and there are those who are not. There will always be racist white men. Despite all the naysayers, black women are getting married to white men or non black men, of course it is a small number, but the number is growing. I wish everyone success in their relationship and marriage to whom they get what to get married to.
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Wow, have I missed all the fun.
The odds of anyone still paying attention are slim, but what do I know? I get giddy anytime my comments hit double digits, this is crazy over here.
Thanks for the repost.
Let me clarify a couple things:
This was written as an explanation of white dating culture in a vaccum, initially ignoring the idea of dating outside one’s race.
I have heard over and over about how white men are wimps, or gutless, or simply hate black women, as evidenced by their unwillingness to be frank and forward in asking out black women.
Very often all these critisizms could be true, but I offered this overview to shed some light on white dating norms so that one from outside that culture does not rashly judge, or missdiagnose what they are experiencing.
Is he a wimp, uninterested, or just acting how his culture has dictated?
If one is going to cross that racial line it is useful to understand the culture you are dealing with… another example at my wedding:
reception was held in white-land USA, a casual affair, with my wife’s family coming in from Atlanta for the occaison.
One of my white friends does a brave thing (all things considered) and goes solo to sit at a table full of black women. He introduces himself, asks the ladies’ names, and asks if they came in from Atlanta. The girl across the table replies, “not all black people are from Atlanta.” with a straight face, bordering on scowl.
My friend beat a quick humiliated retreat
Two weeks later the girl asks my wife why she hasn’t set her up with the cute guy that came p to her table at our reception.
She could not comprehend why he wasn’t interested…. she was just flirting.
Hmmmmm……
I’m not sure playing on one’s racial insecurities is a way to stimulate attraction.
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Good point Brohammas.
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Hey, read about half the posts on here.
Im a white male aged 20. From my experience living just outside London, w/m just aren’t really attracted to b/w, so don’t really even consider getting sexually involved with them. This goes for me as well really although recently I have started finding b/w more attractive. the w/m I’ve known are attracted to mixed race. I guess it’s the white features.
I did wonder whether it has anything to do with genetics. I like petite women ( well women my height or slightly smaller) many white women seem to be slimmer than b/w in general – stemming from a thought off the top of my head.
Could be about penis size? W/m would have a larger penis to a white woman than to a black woman. Black women can be more satisfied by a black man (and penis). This could explain w/w and b/m since women do not mind bigger penis’ do they?
When I talk about penis size in ratio to the size of a woman I do not mean it in a petty male chauvinistic way but in a subconcsious survival instinct kinda way.
Theres a couple of thoughts to add.
Personally I don’t agree that much with this w/m don’t like b/w because of racism, I think its just preferences. x
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Also just thought I’d say I was quite interested in a Pakistani girl but got scared off being not sure how the asian community would act against me and her for that matter. Just how it is round these ways x
Give you something more to think about x
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benji x Says:
Could be about penis size? W/m would have a larger penis to a white woman than to a black woman. Black women can be more satisfied by a black man (and penis). This could explain w/w and b/m since women do not mind bigger penis’ do they?
You have got to be kidding!
This is no joke. A black woman told me one time, she had rather be tickled to death than stabbed to death.
benji x Says:
Also just thought I’d say I was quite interested in a Pakistani girl but got scared off being not sure how the asian community would act against me
Pakistani girl? Asian community? I must be missing something here. I wonder, people who say these things, are they really serious?
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benji x, i think most people in general prefer their own race to others, but we’re talking about the blatant logistical stuff, there are far more bw available to white males in american than asian, yet aw/wm couples outnumber bw/wm couples at this point, there is something funny about that because from a logisitcs point, it should be more proportionate, but if you look at history between bw/wm in america, its very bad and the two groups are very segregated. i don’t know how things are in the uk, but that is how it is in the us
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i’m not even gonna touch on the penis thing…
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“This is no joke. A black woman told me one time, she had rather be tickled to death than stabbed to death.”
yeah…i don’t want a tmi, but i would imagine it can be too painful if its too large
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Wow, the whole “penis thing” that Benji brought up is crazy!
He’s of multiple white men who have brought this flawed theory up on this blog as it pertains to interracial dating.
Are white men really that sexually imtimidated/fascinated with black men?
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“Are white men really that sexually imtimidated/fascinated with black men?”
i’m not trying to be offensive here, but i have noticied some white males definitely are fascinated with the mandingo thing…i’ve always wondered why people say its more common for white males to purchase ww/bm pornography than the other way around…but i guess its the mandingo thing that fascinates some of them for some reason…not trying to be offensive
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peanut,
I am not fascinated by another mans body, no matter race or color. Any other time I would have said you are wrong. But, after reading what benji x had to say, I guess you may have something there. At least as far as benji x is concerned.
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ramblinrick i didn’t mean offense and i’m not going to say all or even most white males are fascinated with black men’s body/physique, but i’ve heard enough comments of the like that i can surmise that yes, a certain sector of white males (for whatever reason) do seem fascinated with the mandingo thing,not in a homosexual way either. Just fascinated…for some i’d say they’re more fascinated with bm than bw…i don’t know. not saying all or even most but there is definitely a segment out there. I don’t understand why someone would comment about black men’s penis to a black woman unless you were fascinated about it… i mean no offense and not singling anyone out just speaking generally. i guess when i hear that sort of thing, it make me raise my eyebrows a bit
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PSA: i just want to add i’m not trying to insult anyone’s masculinity. I am sure most white males don’t give the mandingo thing a second thought…but if you are a white male who is interested in dating a bw, a piece of advice, don’t bring up black men’s penis or mandingo thing to a black woman. don’t do it…it makes you sound insecure and can come off a little bizarre.
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peanut,
Sorry. I guess I should have made myself clearer. I was not offended by anything you said. I enjoy reading your post. You don’t say idiotic things like benji. The statement he made I would suspect to come from a dinosaur like me, not someone 20 yrs old. Looks as though we have made no progress at all. I learned many years ago what not to say to a black woman. I never mentioned race at all. If race was brought up I let her do that.
I know what you mean. Imagine a white saying to a black woman, “I guess you like big black ones.” That would go over like a turd in a punch bowl.
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bugger off benji.
You are not the only person who lives in the UK and what u r trying to do is excuse ur bogus racism.
You like petite women ehh? and what.. black women don’t come in petite?
u like european features ehhh?
what exactly r those?
Look, you are not a prize, most black women don’t want you anyhow. We can smell your inherent superiority complex a mile off which is why in the UK you don’t see many black women dating white men in comparism to the other way round. And many that do have to overlook a heck of a lot in order to date them.
UK white men sometimes are ridiculously racially obtuse. I sometimes wonder why they go on and on about Americans being ignorant when they are soo ignorant it borders on riduculous.
I mean yes! Benji is soo important that the entire Asian community will fall on its knees and begin wailing because he wants to date one Asian girl.
I find in the UK it’s not just white men obsessed with black mens parts, it white women and surprisingly enough a heck of a lot of white lesbians.
I work in a fairly liberal org and I am friendly with all types, sometimes the very first conversation a white lesbian will have with me,post exchange of names is about black male genitalia.
‘Is it true what they say about black men’
‘I think it’s true’
‘If I were straight I’d date a black guy’
‘I really like rough sex’
‘My strap-on is black, can’t imagine is beiny other colour’
‘It just doesn’t seem right to make ‘strap-on’s in other colours’
Yes!. I kid you not, all of the above came from white lesbians.
The UK is not a bastion of equality, it is simply a place where a heck of a lot of white people still think of themselves as an empire.
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But it is interesting reading about the Gens de couleurs and Plaçage. I hadn’t realized before what a large group of people they were. 1500 black placées in 1788 New Orleans. Abagond, you should do an entry on that!
The whole history of Placage and Gens De Couleurs has been skewed and revised so many times, no one knows the truth.
Race mixing in Louisiana is very complex, most natives aren’t pure blooded, be it white or black. The recessive genes still emerge from my black family and as a result gave me a skewed perception of what black is. I’m not quite sure what “race” my great grandmother is, but because of her, as a child I thought it was quite normal that black people look completely white, blue eyes, pale skin, white, no tan to be found.
Why is it that blacks tend to forget THEY sold their own?
Placage and Gens de Couleurs and slavery go hand in hand in Louisiana, and it isn’t about ignoring that SOME blacks owned slaves, it is ignoring the fact that many times free people of color bought their relatives to grant them freedom. That slavery in and of itself is not something that was propelled by black American slaves, and that white people had the heavy hand in regulating and enforcing the believe system that black people were livestock, and the actual number of black people who owned slaves compared to white people was very small. Also by saying black people owned slaves, it doesn’t make it right, or ok that white people did it.
Black people in Africa sold slaves, but in America it was white people predominantly selling and buying slaves from each other, and when blacks were freed, it was white people enforcing the system of segregation and Jim Crow laws.
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‘Black people in Africa sold slaves’.
Ahhhh I have to respond to this. Let us not forget he who controls the present also controls history, it’s writings and teachings.
The system of slavery in old Africa was no differnt to that of the greeks.
Tribes fought, warriors of the losing tribes were enslaved. Every single system in every civilisation has done this.
People forget, Africa was colonised!.
For God’s sake.. we were enslaved in our own lands, under european colonisers.
We were not free people.
We had many uncle Tom’s. What black people would call house negro’s. When you become enslaved, you do your masters bidding or you get whipped or killed.
This was happening to Africans in Africa under colonialisation.
Our languages were decimated and destroyed, just like our Gods. It was illegal to worship them and their worship was forced underground.
you bowed to christianity or you were killed.
Colonisers played on tribal divisions to defeat tribes and enslave them.
Even those who sold their own slaves to Europeans when realising that this was a new kind of slavery joined the resistance movement and fought against the colonisers.
We have stories of warriors both female and male who organised entire batallions (yes we had military structures in Africa) to fight the colonisers.
Previous enemies banded together to over come them, but we were out gunned. They had new weapons which pierced our armour at the time. and they were barbaric and savage.
They didn’t just kill or enslave their captors.
The warriors were massacred, entire villages massacred by the colonisers. They ruled Africa with guns and fear.
They also realised that if they distabilised the natural order of things this would leave them in power for generations.
So they set about the complete and utter destruction of our way of life and our traditions.
That which was forbidden, they made acceptable. They removed rulers who for generations had carried the wisdom of the tribe and tribal secrets and in place installed their puppets. village idiots, the most foolish, with no knowledge, no backing and no awareness of cultural significance into prominence.
They secured them with the highest security and fed them what needed to be done.
This ensured destabilisation for generations. it is under systems as such that people were rounded up by colonisers and shipped off to America.
Not all slaves were sold by African’s. infact most weren’t.
Many were simply villagers, town and citi folk defeated by Colonisers, rounded up and shipped off.
But we never gave up and despite it all we fought and fought even within the system they created to regain our country. We were not granted independence as the Western World likes to tout about..
We fought for it, with blood, sweat, tears. and finally we got it in the 60’s. Just about 50 years ago.
I wish to God, Black Americans will view with skepticism the complete and utter crap white historians have made of African history in the same way they view what those same white historians have said and continue to say about black americans.
On the same token I wish some of my African Brethren would do the same.
I am sick and tired of reading the complete falacy that ohhhh ‘African’s sold Africans to Europeans completely out of context’.
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and in AFrica it was predominately White people gathering africans for shipment to the Americas.
they colonised the continent, thus we were their slaves in our own land.
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Soul,
Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
and like you, I am sick and tired of reading that.
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“I find in the UK it’s not just white men obsessed with black mens parts, it white women and surprisingly enough a heck of a lot of white lesbians.”
lmao
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Lynette,
Yes that’s my daughter who apparently has discovered how to change my avatar.
Kids!!!!
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@nubiah: Not a problem, however you know people still prefer to believe the most incredulous position. right?
@Peanut: You think I’m joking?
I’m serious like a heart attack!.
I was told by the woman in question that she usually comments to her partners to erm ‘take this big black ……’
On another occassion, I was in a lesbian couples house (courtesy of said friend)
I asked if they had any movies and U was directed to a stack of dvd’s.
Absolutely all of them were black male’pron’
The only variation, some had the ‘bbd’ covers (shouldn’t have to explain this).
The others had covers which had white lesbians using strap-ons on the black guys
I backed away and said…’erm, do u guys have anything other than ‘pron’. I’d prefer a nature prog or something.
I’m not a prude, I have no problem with ‘pron’ but I wondered y these lesbians had a collection of black male porn. It simply seemed a tad too unhealthy for me.
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I am a white from the south. I am proud of my heritage and of who I am. But, facts are facts. All through history where ever the white man went, they always f*^#ed over someone. The American Indians knew nothing about scalping until they met the british. The British were masters of torture.
Look at our country today. How our government treats people, even how they mistreat US citizens. Who controls things? A few powerful white men. I consider my self to be part of what is left of a middle class.(It probably only exists in my mind) But, I do understand, just because I am white means nothing to these people. This is how they maintain control of the masses, through racism, religion, etc.
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Soul:
Thanks for the comment about Africa. Striclty speaking it was off topic, but given how some people thing, unfortunately it was not.
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I didn’t realize that people perceived all Blacks as darker skinned until much later in life. I have so many cousins that have two Black parents, but still look very White (Blue eyes, blonde hair, very pale skin). This was very normal to me. I always thought I was dark skinned, because most of my relatives were lighter skinned. When I moved away from New Orleans, Black people asked me why I referred to myself as dark skinned. I realize now that I’m considered brown skinned.
I grew up thinking I was dark skinned as well, and still think of such, I assumed my father, mother, and I were the blackest of the black, we are all considered medium complected. It doesn’t help I was pretty black in comparison to all the white kids I grew up around. My brother does look a bit mulatto, he is lighter skinned with sandy hair and green eyes.He was why as a kid I thought all babies came out as white and darken over time.
I still get a confused look on my face when someone asks me what I am mixed with. I think my hair throws them off, because the assumption is all black people have afros or weave and I have neither. 🙂
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Thirded! When I studied in Spain this summer the Spaniards were obsessed with my hair. I think they gave the American kids some courage, because people who’d never said anything about my hair before suddenly wanted to be all up in it. Then some people started assuming I was Dominican…it was crazy! LOL
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To Soul:
Re: Africa
Not all slaves were sold by African’s. infact most weren’t.
Many were simply villagers, town and citi folk defeated by Colonisers, rounded up and shipped off
I think there’s plenty of evidence to suggest that African slavery by Africans was decidedly more benign than European slavery of Africans but for the most part slavery had ceased to exist in the new world before the bulk of Africa was colonized. When the slave trade was active Europeans basically established forts in coastal cities where trade (including probably the most important.. the slave trade was conducted..) It’s not a matter of revisionist history. There was plenty of documentation kept at the time by the Portuguese, English, French, and Dutch on hows things worked. The Dahomey kingdom for instance made money off the slave trade:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dahomey until it was defeated by the French in the 1890s.
Previously to the latter half of the 19th century the interior of Africa was considered the “White man’s graveyard” not only because of the diseases that were foreign to much of Europe (Malaria and the African trypanosomiasis (Sleeping sickness) as examples..) but because there was active resistance as you have described and the European weapons were not as dramatically advanced over the weapons held by native Africans until the late 19th century when the repeating rifle and machine gun were introduced.
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To RamlingRick:
The American Indians knew nothing about scalping until they met the british.
Archeological evidence would suggest otherwise:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scalping#North_America
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Uncle Milton,
I checked out your link. Depending on who you want to believe. Axtell says there is no evidence the Europeans had no influence at all. Further reading, the Mass. government were paying for Indian scalps as early as 1744. French settlers in 1749 were paying American Indians for British scalps. It really helps prove my point. Where ever the white man has been he has f#*^ed over others. It’s still happening today.
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To ramblinrick:
Further reading, the Mass. government were paying for Indian scalps as early as 1744. French settlers in 1749 were paying American Indians for British scalps. It really helps prove my point.
Yes I know European powers adopted the practice and paid bounties for scalps… that doesn’t mean it originated with Europeans. From the link you can see that there have been graves founds that showed evidence of scalping before Europeans set foot on the shores of the Americas.
Where ever the white man has been he has f#*^ed over others. It’s still happening today.
That’s pretty much the case where one set of humans with power overwhelms another set of humans. Of course for the past 400 years that has been predominantly (but not exclusively) Europeans, previous to that time the Turks, Arabs, and Mongols (in terms of overwhelming other “races”..) had the upper hand.
In terms of white behavior.. do you think it’s common for one race of people to fight people of the same race for the liberation of another race. (Such as during the American civil war…?)
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Uncle Milton,
Scalps were taken in wars between the Visigoths, the Franks and the Anglo-Saxons in the 9th century according to the writings of Abbé Emmanuel H. D. Domenech.
Scalping was practiced by the ancient Scythians of Eurasia. Herodotus, the Greek historian, wrote of the Scythians in 440 BC:
excerpts from your link.
Do you really think that so many more people in the north gave a rats ass what happened to black people? That war was mostly politics. When Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation in 1862 it only freed slaves in confederate states the union had no control over. It did not free slaves in Kentucky, Missouri, etc.(border states) It did not free slaves in Tennessee. If I’m not mistaken, it did nothing for slaves in New Orleans, and other parts of Louisiana. Later it served it’s purpose well, but when first issued the Emancipation Proclamation was all politics, in my opinion. I simply said what I said to make a point. If you don’t agree, ok, but you will never convince me the union army was the great emancipator of black people.Well, that’s it for me and American History.
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uncle milton,
please please please, do not quote portugues, spanish, french or british coloniser facts at me.
I beg of you.
I’ve said numerous times, he who controls the presnt controls history.
Slavery in Africa was no different to slavery in greece, or the UK.
Westerners ran off with that. you have European history to guide you. I have African history to guide me and I’m afraid I wikipedia is just not a source I hold in any kind of regard.
I’m afraid I don’t even want to discuss this anymore, so I’m going to just bow out.
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I agree with Soul’s comments about British white men superiority complex. I have mentioned before in previous posts about how racist WM are towards BW in the UK and how we don’t ‘fit into’ the ‘ideal beauty standard’ which deems us unattractive and unfeminine in their opinion.
Benji’s opinions are typical of the average white male in the UK.
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please please please, do not quote portugues, spanish, french or british coloniser facts at me.
There’s really no disputing that much of Africa was not colonized until the importation of salves in the new world has basically ceased. As I said, whites were beaten back by Africans or illness from much of Africa until the latter part of the 19th century.
When I referring to material written by the European slavers, I am talking about documentation (the good, the bad, and the ugly..mostly the latter) that was written at the time that slavery happened. For example, how else do you think modern historians have discovered that some insurance companies that exist today wrote insurance for a loss of a slave ..?
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To Soul:
I have African history to guide me..
Well I have read some histories of slavery written by Africans.. they basically say the same thing I wrote. However post some links and I’ll read them.
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To RamblingRick:
Scalps were taken in wars between the Visigoths, the Franks and the Anglo-Saxons in the 9th century according to the writings..
Sure Europeans scalped people, but the same article states that there is little evidence that Europeans settlers realized there forebears had done this in battle. For the most it had disappeared in Europe. As I said look at the archeological evidence:
http://www.dickshovel.com/scalp.html
http://texified.com/Pages/Interests/scalping.htm
There were of course many positive things introduced to Europe from the Native Americans – the tomato, potato, corn (maize) – at a very early stage of contact such that the potato became the main staple of Ireland and the tomato was widely used in Italian food. There are some who assert that elements of the American democracy came not only from the Greeks and Romans but also the league of the Iroquois.
As for scalping it would appear that some tribes did it and some did not. There was a fair amount of variety in the cultures and economy of different tribes.. as much if not more so than Europe.
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To Soul:
please please please, do not quote portugues, spanish, french or british coloniser facts at me.
There’s really no disputing that much of Africa was not colonized until the importation of slaves into the new world had basically ceased. As I said, whites were beaten back by Africans or illness from much of Africa until the latter part of the 19th century.
When I was referring to material written by the European slavers, I was talking about documentation (the good, the bad, and the ugly..mostly the latter) that was written at the time that slavery happened. For example, how else do you think modern historians have discovered that some insurance companies that exist today wrote insurance policies for the loss of a slave ..?
Rewritten to correct grammar and spelling errors..
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To RamblingRick:
That war was mostly politics.
Politics wrapped around the issue of abolition. The notion that slavery was not at the center of the civil war is something promoted by white nationalists. If you read the source materials, you’ll know it was the primary issue for the war. Lincoln, before the war in a state of the Union address came up with a proposal to compensate Southern slave holders to free slaves. He was desperately trying to prevent a war that he knew would be extremely bloody.
When Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation in 1862 .. It did not free slaves in Tennessee. If I’m not mistaken, it did nothing for slaves in New Orleans, and other parts of Louisiana.
No… many slaves were freed by the Emancipation proclamation, although you are correct that the act did not specifically apply to border states (although 20,000 slaves were freed in Tennessee as a result…) but before the civil war had ended each border state as well as the territory of Arizona had issued declarations freeing slaves within their borders.
“Lincoln’s Emancipation Proclamation was a powerful move that promised freedom for slaves in the Confederacy as soon as the Union armies reached them, and authorized the enlistment of African Americans in the Union Army. The Emancipation Proclamation did not free slaves in the Union-allied slave-holding states that bordered the Confederacy. Since the Confederate States did not recognize the authority of President Lincoln, and the proclamation did not apply in the border states, at first the proclamation freed only slaves who had escaped behind Union lines. Still, the proclamation made the abolition of slavery an official war goal that was implemented as the Union took territory from the Confederacy. According to the Census of 1860, this policy would free nearly four million slaves, or over 12% of the total population of the United States.
Simon Legree and Uncle Tom: A scene from Uncle Tom’s Cabin, history’s most famous abolitionist novel
The Arizona Organic Act abolished slavery on February 24, 1863 in the newly formed Arizona Territory. Tennessee and all of the border states (except Kentucky) abolished slavery by early 1865. Thousands of slaves were freed by the operation of the Emancipation Proclamation as Union armies marched across the South. Emancipation as a reality came to the remaining southern slaves after the surrender of all Confederate troops in spring 1865.”
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Uncle Milton,
Slavery did not become illegal until 1865 with the ratification of the thirteenth amendment. My point is, when the slaves were freed there were not masses of northern white people welcoming black people with open arms. This is not the reason I am here. I am with Soul, I bow out gracefully. Thanks Uncle Miltie.
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To RamblinRick:
Slavery did not become illegal until 1865 with the ratification of the thirteenth amendment.
It was definitely illegal in most Northern and Border states before ratification of the 13th amendment. It was de facto illegal in Confederate states as the Union army conquered them.
My point is, when the slaves were freed there were not masses of northern white people welcoming black people with open arms.
There’s moral duty and welcoming people with open arms. The two (unfortunately) are not the same. The American public favored the Japanese against the Chinese during their war until the rape of Nanjing out the behavior of the Japanese Imperial Empire into focus.
This is not the reason I am here.
Far enough… it is off topic.. I don’t think we are too far in our thinking but I believe it is important to get the history correct (within the limitations and information available to us…)
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White men’s intrigue over black men’s penis size is real. I once dated a guy who had never dated a BW before. On more than one occasion he brought up the penis size thing.
I told him I didn’t go around comparing the genitalia of former lovers. He tried to get me to roughly approximate the range of male penis I had experienced. LOL
It was ridiculous.
I never slept with him, but I know his inquiry was grounded in his insecurity. He was afraid if I slept with him that he might not “measure up.”
I tried to explain that it isn’t the size that’s most important. It’s what a man does with what he’s working with.
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Jerks,playas,assholes;etc.come in all colors and creeds! Plain and simple.Don’t put all white men or black men in one category because it’s not true! If that’s the case,then us guys could say,”All _____ women lie who the fathers of their babies are!” Right?? I hate people that generalize,like all of us white men are intrigued by a black men’s penis size because there are some that are that way,but not all.Everyone is different.
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I tried to explain that it isn’t the size that’s most important. It’s what a man does with what he’s working with.
Of course.
And, guys, the size thing ISN’T TRUE. Really, it isn’t. It’s just a myth that some racist WM came up with to scare WW.
Besides… forget the length. It’s the width that’s important! (Okay, TMI there) And who wants to be impaled? Just the thought is enough to make me want to run and hide.
Heh. I wondered when someone would bring up the size question. Yes, they do ask/think/talk about it. And both BM and WM are convinced that it is true.
Abagond, I saw that you commented on Roissy in DC’s retarded interracial sex entry. (vomit) I was so disgusted that I couldn’t even comment on it. But, for everyone’s viewing pleasure (not, he’s such a jerk), here’s a choice excerpt:
I recall the sex pretty vividly because she was exotic new territory for me. I’ll admit I was intimidated when we started banging because I figured most of her experience was with black guys and their huge schlongs. She climbed on top and a wave of relief swept over me when I hit her cervical wall. I was big enough for her.
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LOL. Reading that entry was like watching a train wreck.
http://roissy.wordpress.com/2007/10/31/interracial-loving/
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i’m not sure if someone mentioned this yet or not because i didn’t get through all the comments but i’m a wf in a seven year relationship with a bm and i’m around mostly bf on a daily basis. this is just MY personal observation over the years.
two things-
first, it seems from the bf i’ve been around most are willing to talk to a wm for fun or messing around but won’t get serious with one. i do know a few who will or have but i always feel like the majority don’t take the wm serious or they worry about what will be said of them. way more so than bm.
second, i feel that wm and bf are raised to be the alphas of their race – the wm as the man of the house, and the bf as the woman of the house. it’s kinda hard to explain but somehow i think this kind gives the bm and wf a connection yet keeps the wm and bf apart. I don’t think that wm and bf are the alphas of their race, I just think that this is a idea set in peoples mind from birth – at least in my experience. I also agree with alot of the other comments i’ve read on here and this has been very interesting reading 🙂
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Sparkling Pink Gorilla:
Just so you know, “gorilla” is a moderated word on this blog. You might want to use a different name since otherwise all of your comments will be moderated and will not appear right away.
See my comment policy here, which has the full list of moderated words (cracker, bitch, shit, etc):
Also, in regard to your comment, you might be interested in this post about how racism affects black women’s relationship with each other and with white women:
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^^^
If that a picture of you ERE, you sure are a looker!
Too bad you come across so bitter.
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Since when WM been so gun shy to approach BW I mean wasn’t white men hooking up with black women left and right during slavery times…Was it attraction or just something else? Our American history and the relationship btw the white man and the black woman is quite confusing…because there was a lot of race mixing going on from the giddyup.
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My post about how white people use feelings, particularly their own hurt feelings, to dismiss claims of racism:
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Re: my comment at 275
I’m not making it up.
I was listening to an album I just bought: Kings of Leon – Only By the Night
I get to the song, “I Want You” and hear these lyrics:
Home-boy’s so proud, finally got the video proof
The night vision shows she was only duckin the truth
It’s heavy I know, black guy with the gift down below
A choke and a gag, she spit up n came back for more…
I shook my head. Some more White boys overly concerned about what a Black dude is working with.
I know Abagond and Mynameismyname say they didn’t know of such an issue, but believe me it is an issue for more than a few White men.
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Islandgirl,
I thought the same thing when I read her responses! A shame too. Such a pretty girl who seems so passionate in what she believes in. Too bad she doesn’t appear to invest all of that passion into something less rageful and more positive.
Ndependent,
I’m actually the one who pointed out the issue. I’ve known of too many instances in where a white man seemed to be too preoccupied with a black man’s sex organ. It should be noted that during several of these said instances, the mention of their black counterparts’ “size” came up out of the blue. What does this say?
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Myname said:
“Too bad she doesn’t appear to invest all of that passion into something less rageful and more positive.”
That seems patronizing.
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^^^
I’m sorry if my comment was interpreted as such.
All I meant to say was that someone like her who seems to have so much passion should put it into something that’s more resourceful. Always fuming about “the white man” and complaining bitterly about every terrible slight you feel was made against you will only get you so far. If you put all of that energy into trying to change the status quo, then you’re getting somewhere.
What becomes of just getting angry if you’re not trying to gain some resolutions in order to quell that anger? I can vent about racism all day long but if I’m not going to try to do anything to weaken its presence, then what’s the point? Just talking isn’t going to change anything.
That’s all I meant. I did not mean for it to come across as patronizing or negative.
(Sorry for the triple post. This is the final version. The other two had typos.)
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Ok. Ignored. *shrugs*
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[…] It’s here at Abagond’s. It’s titled why so few white men marry black women and is the third post on the topic. I had no idea that was the case. […]
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Omg! I had to lmao @ this. I commented on the other video just a while ago and then I found this, so I won’t repeat what I wrote, but I thinks its SOOO weird how white guys are when it comes to black women. I always hear the ones who proclaim that they find black women unattractive, but I am a black girl who gets more attention from white guys than any other group of men. To be honest, I have dedicated a few minutes of my life to wondering why white guys appraoch black women so differently than other men, so this is funny to me.
Black men will just come up to a girl and start a conversation about ANYTHING, then the other black guys will usually just scream at you as you walk by or something and make it clear that they find you attractive and, perhaps, would love to have sex with you. Latinos guys are similar to black men. Even a few of the hip hop loving Asian guys do this (I figure the rest don’t hit on any women, lol. I♥Azn men) Then….. theres the white man. He’s a little creepy if you ask me, but I won’t go there. I figured out in my teens that white men who find a certian black woman attractive will sit and stare from across a room, hallway, parking lot..etc, until they see a sign of attraction or willingness from the black girl.
This seems to be their #1 strategy. As many white guys that have been pretty clear about their like of me, i STILL can’t remember a time when one came out of nowhere and started a conversation the way a black guy would! Most of the ones I meet are at school or somewhere and if they don’t just stare like I said then they are usually friends of someone and we are introduced & they go from there. I noticed that >>I<>I<< likely have to start the conversation with him (omg Its freezing outside isn't it!? *smile*) & I always laugh at how "smiley" some are after that. They talk to me with these BIG smiles on their faces like they're SOO relieved… and then some of them don't stop talking….. lol
I met a white guy in one of my English classes one semster who LITERALLY stared at me the whole time! It shocked me because he was so cute that he seemed like he SHOULD'VE had all the confidence in the world. He was tall with blonde hair and blue eyes. He would smile at me across the classroom during lecture & I'd give him a faint smile and look away. Which I think scared him, but at the same time I'm not a mean person and ppl always say I seem really sweet & open, so he was likely confused. BUT it was the MOST awkward thing because if he ever got the courage to ask me out would I say yes? no. probably not. The true intentions of white guys are a mystery to me, as nice as one (and he) seems, I always wonder if they have "never been with a black girl" and want to test it out or w/e…
So, personally, I dont blame them for being so scared. Black women aren't known to be so open to dating white guys. EVERYONE knows most of us prefer black men, or at least those of us who do make it known more than those of us who don't (much like the black men who prefer white women make it known more through the media than the ones who prefer black women), but this most likely makes white guys very hesitant about approaching black women. There are a LOT of cons when it comes to white men/black women relationships. I know all the men in my family hate it, I know their friends and some of mine do too. BW are pressured to stay with black men, thats just the truth. So why would a guy do something like that when the odds are that he'll either be turned down, or that it'll be a hard relationship to deal with because of outside pressures/problems?
… I wouldn't do it.
❤Becca❤
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I have had a white guy ask me if the myth about black men is true.
I told him I wouldn’t know because I have never slept with a man before let alone a black man.
You should of seen his puzzled face.
Yes i’m a virgin at 21 and i am a black girl.
Is that so surprising?
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LOL @ L…i hear ya
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In a country where girls start having sex at 12 years old, the fact that you are a virgin at 21 is the surprising thing. Being black is just incidental.
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Twelve years old? *shock* I knew the age was low, but not that low. Is that an average? Anyone have some studies on this?
And L., I think Marci is right about the black part being incidental. I was a 21 year old virgin too and would always get “the look” from men I dated when I told them that.
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And I also do not like the fact that some white men think they are something exotic to me – I live in the whitest country in the world, no you’re not exotic to me because you have white skin.
I have also never seen white guys get so happy as when i tell them that i have never had a black boyfriend before, their faces light up like a light bulb.
I am mostly attracted to white guys, but don’t think because i am dating a white guy that makes me public property of white men.
You can see how (especially older white men) get excited seeing a WM/BW couple, their smile is so wide you’d think they won the lottery.
Just because a BW is dating a WM doesn’t mean she’d date you – a redneck racist with a beer gut who when seeing this couple, thinks, ‘ could have her easily because she is with a white man,like me’
Only, she isn’t with a white man like you.
She is with a white man who is superior to you (white trash) in more ways than one.
He is educated, most likely, so is she.
Probably well off, both of them.
I don’t like the entitlement these lower class white men feel when it comes to black women.
and then we have the cowardly white men who stare at you with sad eyes and you can literally sense the anxiety from across the room.
Look, if you’re not man enough to approach, don’t stare at me with intense crazy eyes practically begging me to approach you because you’re not man enough to do it yourself, and then walk past me angrily with your passive aggressive crap because i don’t come on to you.
I’m a woman, I don’t care who you are.
I. am. not. approaching.
That puts me off.
And don’t get me started with the older white men, divorced to their white mrs and have X amount of white children, now off in college and creating families of their own…hitting on young black girls.
I have seen it and yes i have experienced it.
Last time that crap happened to me it was some slavic older man who thought his white skin was worth something lol
I was very young and he had bought me coffee and thought he deserved a blow job in his car.
lol, needless to say, that didn’t happen and he got pissed off.
I ran quick.
Speaking of slavic men, what is up with these third world, slavs in poland and freaking lithuania lol
they think they are worth their weight in gold or something and think black women odd to throw themselves at them.
I don’t even consider your ass caucaisan, just freaking weird, look like blacks painted in white with blue eyes lol hitler didn’t call them white niggers for no reason.
I’ve never dated a white man outside of the very white country i live in which is a nordic european country by the way but if i were to, it would probably be a german man or someone from another nordic european country.
English blokes are just way too backwards for my taste so is american white guys (although i have a thing for southern boys idk why but probably has something to do with my huge crush on one of the kings of leon bad members who happen to be from tennessee)
and i don’t even really consider spanish guys and italian guys to be “white” , they are brown to me lol
and besides, these latin guys or whatever have some huge insecuritites when it comes to how white htey think and feel they are.
I have noticed, the less white one might appear, the more frickin’ racist they are lol they don’t feel white enough.heck go to spain and you’ll see what I mean.
now i’m rambling.
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i know plent of adult black virgins 21 and older. i find the middle class bw tend to be more religious, so many will try and wait until marriage or atleast until they’re older.
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i wasn’t going to say anything, but I’m virgin too and I’m 21.
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its nothing wrong with it. I don’t think it makes you better, more pure or worse than anyone else. It’s just a personal decision. I am kinda insulted when I do tell people that I’m a virgin and they are suprised partially because of my age and I also get the feeling that it’s also because I’m black and I’m supposed to have 4 babies by 3 different men out of wedlock. most men i find really don’t want to wait out for marriage though. They might like it a little at first, but then once they realize that they are not the one, then they’ll just get pissed and irritated cuz they “have to get some.” I had one guy harass me about this cuz he wanted to be my first and I wasn’t ready and this is how it went down
Phone Conversation:
guy: I really need some stress relief
me: okay…
guy: you know what I mean??
me: yes…
guy: well…
me: I’m just not ready yet
guy: (angrily/shouting) d*mmit! I’m f*cking someone, if not you, i’m f*cking someone this weekend whether you or not!
me: okay…(hangs up phone)
He later called me back 3 days later at 12:01 am in the morning talking about how he really needed to talk to me. He wanted to see me/ he’s sorry. Yeah right, like i’m going to accept that kind of treatment and then you expect me to meet you somewhere…
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i’ll admit, I have had some situations with older white men. That’s all I’m going to say.
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Religion had nothing to do with it for me. I was into books, horses, computers, and art. Boys did not make it onto my radar until I was blindsided by my ex who literally laid seige for weeks before I blinked his way.
The old men thing is not just white guys pursuing black girls. it’s any old guy going after women half their age that they think they can control (think of all those dating sites with russian, african, asian women…just waiting to devout their world to the older man who rescued them..yeah right). That’s a whole ‘nother story that annoys me, but I find that I am a hypocrite with it too since I have dated more than a few guys that are at least ten years younger than I am. It’s the whole “taut skin, in shape, more in tune with the things I am into” meme, that gets me.
There’s actually a survey about adult virgins in the US. Out of more than 300 million people, like close to 10%. That’s not including the born again virgins who decide to wait until they are in a meaningful relationship.
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“And I also do not like the fact that some white men think they are something exotic to me – I live in the whitest country in the world, no you’re not exotic to me because you have white skin.”
@ L
Hey L, you live in Finland? I always thought those guys were so quiet and passive, the only time I saw emotion was when music was to be had.
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Marci says,
That’s a whole ‘nother story that annoys me, but I find that I am a hypocrite with it too since I have dated more than a few guys that are at least ten years younger than I am. It’s the whole “taut skin, in shape, more in tune with the things I am into” meme, that gets me.
laromana says,
Many seem to equate the dynamics of an OM/YW relationship to that of an OW/YM relationship but I’ve learned from personal research and from talking to OW married to or partnered with YM that this is not true. In OW/YM relationships the parties involved tend to treat each other as peers rather than having the older person try to control the younger.
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L says,
and then we have the cowardly white men who stare at you with sad eyes and you can literally sense the anxiety from across the room.
Look, if you’re not man enough to approach, don’t stare at me with intense crazy eyes practically begging me to approach you because you’re not man enough to do it yourself, and then walk past me angrily with your passive aggressive crap because i don’t come on to you.
I’m a woman, I don’t care who you are.
I. am. not. approaching.
That puts me off.
And don’t get me started with the older white men, divorced to their white mrs and have X amount of white children, now off in college and creating families of their own…hitting on young black girls.
laromana says,
The examples you’ve given highlight 2 of my major pet peeves regarding CERTAIN WM- ANTI-BW COWARDS who “TOO AFRAID” to approach BW (but have NO PROBLEM approaching OTHER NON-WW) and ANTI-BW RACISTS who didn’t think BW were “good enough” to SERIOUSLY DATE or MARRY when they were younger WM but think they’re ENTITLED to younger BW now that they’re older WM.
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I agree whoelheartedly, Laromana!
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Agabond, I thank you for this site…I have to say that I have enjoyed reading these posts. I find other peoples perspectives to be very enlightening and entertaining, even when diametrically opposed to the majorities…opinions are like buttholes, everyone has one–doesn’t mean they are right or wrong.
From my personal experience (and my friends say that I am a little hardcore): All men are the same no matter where they come from! They all want to sleep with you.
When they are attracted to you..it’s your face or body that got you the attention, and it’s your level of confidence or usefulness (booty call-ability) that holds them.
I am a Jamaican in my 30’s that has lived in the US, UK, and Germany. My experience with the European white men seemed to be different than Black&Germans: those white boys chased me like I was a Gucci bag on a red-tag sale.
I agree that the German guys were more covert but I got my fair share of overt stalkerish attention–I was once followed from the store–I started running after about 3 streets and he was running right behind me. I ran into a bakery and he came in holding out a bag..he apologized for scaring me and handed me the bag–which contained a bottle of Sekt, chocolates, and flowers. He handed me his name card with his phone number and said “i think you are really beautiful and I just wanted to meet you. Here’s my card, please call me if you would like to go to dinner”..then he left. I was floored and flattered in a strange way–and thankful that he wasn’t totally crazy! Ate the chocolate and drank the champagne with my Norwegian boyfriend.
I have only ever seriously dated 1 white America guy and a few black American guys and for me, both seemed to have hangups that I was not interested in dealing with when it came to race and ethnic heritage…because I was Jamaican, I got the reggae-rasta wannabe white boys who had no clue about the Jamaican culture, or the white guy who like to say “You’re so different from the black girls around here”, and the black American guys thought I was “exotic” and were suprised that I was not snobby but the minute we had a disagreement, I would hear “your shit doesn’t stink…you Jamaicans think you are better than us”…I was not interested in those scenes at all.
I agree with one poster who mentioned that like tends to gravitate to like. My value system and sense of self-worth was oringinally grounded in my West Indian culture. When we immigrated to the US, my parents moved to NY and then Florida where alot of other caribbean people lived. As a teen, I dated mostly Jamaican or Trini boys. Like most color-schismed black societies-it was more acceptable to my parents when I dated Mrs. Chins son (chinese Jamaican) or the half-coolie (Indian) boy than a dark-skinned guy (it was acceptable if he was going to University)
…My life gravitated around the West Indian culture so a white boy was not even mentioned in the equation until I met a white Jamaican (you call them mixed in US) and then my parents had to let me know that I was too dark to hold on to him, I was told they only liked/ married other “brownings” or really educated and successful dark-skinned women but that was the exception to the rule.
I think my European experience helped my deprogram some of the self-hate that is unintentionally inflicted on dark-skinned women by multiethnic cultures. In Europe, I learned that men are dogs no matter what country they’re from and I had fun learning to say “Get lost” in different languages. My “value” went up with Jamaican guys because they thought it was cool that lived in Europe but they still tried to chat up my Polish girlfriend before trying to talk to me. The white American boys approached me more when I went out with her…I guess they felt I would be more open to talking to them since I was hanging out with a white girl, but if I chat with a white guy, I prefer European guys–they are more confident.
Anyway, black women, remember love yourself first, confidence is sexy, and men of all colors are attracted to that.
Sorry for my long-winded thoughts, just wanted to share.
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I totally agree about older white men thinking they are entitled to us young black girls, especially after they have divorced, had their children who are now grown, financially secure, and now they think they can impose on our youth. When black men approach whether older and younger, at least they have the decency to inquire if I have a boyfriend. With white men, particularly the older ones, they think their white skin should be enough for us to give them play. You would not believe the number of white men who would come up to me to ask me out without at least asking if I have a boyfriend. It makes me angry sometimes because it really makes it seem as if they really believe that they are entitled.
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Ana and I get nasty looks all the time. I’m 42, she’s 36. She looks a LOT younger, however. Until people realize her true age and the fact that she’s got a PhD, they presume I’m just some white trash shmuck exploiting a naive young black girl.
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@ Linda: Interesting comment! Thank you!
@ Thaddeus: You should be ashamed of yourself exploiting naive, young black girls! Do her parents know? 😉
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No, I’m not from Finland.
Sweden.
Way worse than finish guys.
I find myself sitting somewhere in a public place, feeling something intense at the back of my neck, and i look around and there is one of them staring at me lol not smiling,nothing just plain staring…it’s creepy.
Anyways, that is why I am so careful when it comes to white guys, call me shallow, but I don’t want him to look a lot older than me.
I don’t want people to think he bought me lol
And also, i’m attracted to guys my own age.
I agree with you Laroma.
I think young black girls know this and aren’t stupid, but I know for a fact how angry it can make you and how worthless you feel when one of these older men comes up to you.
I wish they could stop!
it’s not ok to prey on a young girl like that.
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Linda says:
“From my personal experience (and my friends say that I am a little hardcore): All men are the same no matter where they come from! They all want to sleep with you. ”
I agree with you. Men are the same all over, as well as women. Some attentions are colored by race and country, but I think the majority of male/female interactions aren’t. My experience has been the latter.
@ L
No way are Swedish guys worse than Finnish! I had a boyfriend who is Swedish and he was the sweetest person. Abagond, aren’t you originally from Sweden? Defend your countrymen! lol
Sometimes I read this blog and the comments and I feel like I am in a whole ‘nother universe. I pride myself on being a very good people reader for reasons of my own, and rare, ultra rare were the times I have ever felt a hint of racism directed towards me in my life. Not to say that there haven’t been times when I have had to correct someone’s silly notion that a group of people think the same as a whole, but that is something else.
What I do find interesting here is that some women are saying they despise white people, especially the men, because whites think they are animals and not people, yet they are going out with them and prefer them as romantic material. WTF? That boogles me as truly hypocritical and just plain stupid.
@ Thaddeus
My mom is 61 and my dad is 75. That was a romance built over a generation and cultural gap there! 6 years is no way a old man preying on a younger woman. And yeah, I’m saying that cause I’m going to be 42 in April and I definitely date younger guys. lol
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You’re welcome, Agabond. Traveling has given me many experiences that I don’t mind sharing…I’ll save my good stories about Latino men and southern Europeans for your part 4 topic.
L, my dear, when a older man goes after a younger woman, it’s called middle-aged crisis..he’s just trying to prove that he still has it…it’s really not about you…your skin color is a novelty… According to my girlfriends in their 40’s, they still get hit on by older guys (60’s) and the younger ones trying to catch a “cougar” (older woman) to brag to their friends.
I understand how you feel, only in Germany did I ever have guys think they were complimenting me by saying”You have such nice breasts”…I would shut them down (and I slapped a few) after that because like you, it made me feel dirty and like a piece of meat. I educated the European guys I dated by making them work really hard just to take me to lunch… men love a challenge if they’re really interested but you’re also saying “I am not who you think I am”
Old men like to spend their money…get lunch out of it…just kidding… Have fun and flirt, you don’t have to feel dirty, you’re not giving anything up except your time, self-worth comes from within.
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marci – I’ve been around swedish guys since I was a baby.
I know how most of them work, even more so than my native country men.
My first bf/crush was swedish and I have only had swedish boyfriends.
I have had no problem with young swedish guys my age, I am talking about the older men, those who I do not want or any other girl my age with self respect would want.
I have a dad and a grandad.
Maybe finish guys are worse, I don’t really know other then what I have heard and what I have seen,really…
who is originally from sweden?! is anyone swedish in here!?! HALLLÅÅÅ!?! lol
Linda, that makes me feel better.
I don’t like feeling that I and other black girls are alone in feeling like older men see us as public property and think they can talk to us any way they feel like.
Maybe it sounds weird, but knowing you are not alone in being treated like a toy rather than a human being by these stereotypical older men, makes me feel a little bit better.
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@L
Eep! I’m going to defer to you on old swedish guys.
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@Marci
“What I do find interesting here is that some women are saying they despise white people, especially the men, because whites think they are animals and not people, yet they are going out with them and prefer them as romantic material. WTF? That boogles me as truly hypocritical and just plain stupid.”
Marci, I think what L and the other are referring to is the unfortunate catch-22 that they find themselves in: they are attracted to white guys but they have a hard time dealing with being objectified as women and as woman of colour, having to be treated as a novelty at the same time.
Generally speaking, women have to deal with being treated as an object (toy) first by almost all men (regardless of race or nationality), then once the guy realizes you are more than a body and not one dimensional (they mostly want you horizontal), then they start to treat you as a person, hopefully with respect.
For black women, it seems we have the extra burden of being that “special” toy that they want to play with…like a “Tickle Me Elmo” doll–you squeeze the middle and you expect him to laugh, well white guys expect you to be that sexy mama they heard so much about–those music videos and rap songs did us NO favors…black women feel they have work harder to be treated as an individual and not a toy that is suppose to dance because it’s expected.
I was a student (18) when I lived in Germany, and the Germans I met were so surprised when I said that I attended the University…they were surprised that I was not in the military. (I was so stupid that I didn’t realize the US had bases in Germany)
Like I mention in my first post, being Jamaican, I had to deal with stereotypes about what I was suppose to be like, act like, etc as a Jamaican. I soon learned (in the US and Europe) that I also had to learn to deal with stereotypes regarding my colour. I like men…I wasn’t going to give up dating because I ran into idiots now and again. Life and love is what you make of it.
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“I find myself sitting somewhere in a public place, feeling something intense at the back of my neck, and i look around and there is one of them staring at me lol not smiling,nothing just plain staring…it’s creepy.”
LMAO!!!
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I get what you mean, Linda. Stereotypes and racism can overlap a lot, I know.
I’ve had my share of experiences with what you are saying and I guess what I am trying to understand is how some of the posters can spew such vitriolic hatred at white people because of prejudice and then go on to post that they have a white boyfriend.
“I like men…I wasn’t going to give up dating because I ran into idiots now and again. Life and love is what you make of it.”
That’s so true.
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whoa..my above comment is awaiting moderation? Ut oh, what did I say wrong now?
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Your post got moderated because you said “white boyfriend”. Nothing wrong in that except that one of the moderated terms is “white boy”.
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Ahh. Mea culpa.
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I have to disagree with that article, not all black women are easy to “lay” thats like saying that all white people are rednecks, You just cant generalise something like. White women can also be total sluts (I’ve met a few white friends who give it up after the 1st week ) If you ask me I almost find the typical white girl more immoral than the black girl.
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Well,as a black man,I understand the sordid history of black men’s sexual abuse of black women,but this is 2010,and frankly,there are LOTS of hot black girls who’d look GREAT with those life-size Ken dolls
(Since Aussie lad Blaine is Barbie’s new boy,perhaps these Caucasian
dudes should be called “life-size Blaines!!!!
Besides,I’m tired of the double standard by which we life-size Brad dolls
(from 1970-’72,before Mattel Toys,Inc.,the three dolls’ innovator/manu-
facturer,discontinued him,Brad was Barbie’s then-boyfriend Ken’s hand-
some black buddy)can freely date Blossoms(buxom,preferably blonde white girls)while ladling opprobrium on black girls who date white dudes!!!!
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I meant,of course,white men’s sexual abuse of black women.
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WHAT Cowboy Jim-Brad?
“life-size Ken dolls?”
Wow! You are such a hater!!!
Don’t hate the player, hate the game.
You need to get laid, stop hatin!!
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When white people are being taught black people hate them…what the reasons they’re given? How do white family conversations like that go?
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Bklyn Bryan,
LOL. Nice try.
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You have a great blog, Ankhesen.
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BklynBryan
Be sure to stop by some white supremacist sites and preach the same thing will ya?
I wonder if you feel its a minority trait that perpetuates a racist society that labels humans ‘black’ or ‘white’.
I’m sure you know racist white people, do you ever challenge them.
Most of us are trying to go about our lives without dealing with the pervasive racism we face.
That’s what this blog is about, nothing racist in it.
If you feel that way why are you here??
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islandgirl, thank you. I really work hard on that blog.
Ó Dochartaigh,
You’ve gotta deal with the storm before the post-racial calm–no ifs, ands, or butts. People of color have gone through and still go through some shit in this country. Surprise, surprise…we’re angry. We’re hurt. And we are way more tired of this than white people will ever be.
If you’re looking for instant gratification in racial progress, you’re deluding yourself. People color have been enduring this for centuries. White folks have made a very diligent effort to not endear themselves to us, so you can’t show up on a blog like this and expect the red carpet; when you do, that’s your white privilege showing. What you can expect, however, are wrath, hurt, and pain–all of which is justified and none of which can simply be skipped over because it makes you uncomfortable.
If you can’t handle truth, then you are a cowardly weakling and you need to go back to “your” world where you can indulge the luxury of thinking none of this has anything to do with you. But if you choose to grow a backbone and stay, then you will have to face the price of your privilege, and no…it won’t be pleasant at all.
It’s not supposed to be.
And if you feel yourself getting angry, pause to remember it was your predecessors–some of whom are still living, by the way–who created and maintained the mess you’re in. So if you have any sense of honor or any shred of strength whatsoever, then you’ll go after them instead of devolving to punk-bitch status and getting snarky with us.
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ankhesen, you wrote:
“People of color have gone through and still go through some shit in this country. Surprise, surprise…we’re angry. We’re hurt. And we are way more tired of this than white people will ever be.”
Based on your entire comment, it may be news to you, but most whites give zero thought to your anger and hurt. It’s simply not part of the daily schedule.
Meanwhile, you seem to be another complainer who beileves if it were not for the presence of whites, the world would be a swell place.
If, as I have stated before, there were ONE example of a successful black nation, the white world would have a much improved view of blacks. But the world is still waiting.
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@ Ankhesen: Excellent comment!!! Thank you.
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just to say
“Some minorities are not going to reward you for questioning the stautus quo, because maybe that’s something you should be doing/done and sharing with others long ago.”
I’m not asking for a reward, but if a white person is trying to understand racial issues; civil discourse would be more effective than hostility, I think hostility just pushes people away and causes more frustration.
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no_slappz is still chatting c*** again! This is getting old very quickly!
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ankhesen, you asked:
“When white people are being taught black people hate them…what the reasons they’re given? How do white family conversations like that go?”
The conversations go like this.
Don’t go to East New York or Bushwick or parts of Harlem late at night. You might get mugged.
Maybe you doubt that whites learn about blacks through personal experience. But we do. My personal experience includes muggings, assaults and murders. However, in the bigger picture of NY City, well over 90% of the violent crime is comitted by blacks and hispanics.
Thus, warnings about staying away from obvious trouble spots is sensible advice.
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Ankhesen: Amen!
I would add some more, but nothing can follow that comment.
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Merrimay
“You said it, has to start on both sides, so again I’ll ask, have you EVER challenged whites about their own prejudices? You seem to think that the work starts with the aggrieved minorities, not the more daunting task of taking on the Mighty whitey.”
I grew up in Appalachia, it has one of the highest majorities of whites in the country, I have been arguing against ignorance my whole life. I have been called everything from “N Lover” to “self hating white trash” because I speak out against racist remarks. I’m not asking for “rewards” or praise.
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MerriMay
I grew up in Appalachia, it has one of the highest majorities of whites in the country, I have been arguing against ignorance my whole life. I have been called everything from “black lover insert racist remark” to “self hating white trash” because I speak out against racist remarks. I’m not asking for “rewards” or praise.
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“I’m not asking for a reward, but if a white person is trying to understand racial issues; civil discourse would be more effective than hostility, I think hostility just pushes people away and causes more frustration.”
So, when speaking of racism, everyone should be ‘civil’ about it? How about some tea and biscuits while they’re at it? How about a group hug? I can’t carry on as tears are rolling down my cheeks as I type this!
“Based on your entire comment, it may be news to you, but most whites give zero thought to your anger and hurt. It’s simply not part of the daily schedule.”
What is a part of their daily schedule?
“Meanwhile, you seem to be another complainer who beileves if it were not for the presence of whites, the world would be a swell place.”
Let me rephrase that for you. It should go something like this; Meanwhile, I seem to be another complainer who believes that if there were no blacks, muslims and women around, the world would be a horrible place, void of any pleasures as there would be nothing to complain about. There would be no athletes, espeacilly boxers. “There would not be entertainers”. There would not be any muslims for me to rant and rave about”. There would not be any women around for me to insult or point out their every little insecurities”. Life would be torture!” I might as well have to go live in a cave as life would be meaningless!
“If, as I have stated before, there were ONE example of a successful black nation, the white world would have a much improved view of blacks.”
That old refrain, a successful black nation, but only now such a nation would be contingent on whites having a better view of blacks!
“no_slappz is still chatting c*** again! This is getting old very quickly!”
Was it ever new?
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Ankhesen, you’re welcome and it shows.
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ankhesen, you wrote:
“If you can’t handle truth, then you are a cowardly weakling and you need to go back to “your” world where you can indulge the luxury of thinking none of this has anything to do with you.”
To be accurate and truthful, YOU must admit that you and a large percentage of blacks live in a black alternative universe. However, your refusal or inability to see the world as it is, rather than they way it appears in your alternative universe, will probably stop you from feeling as though you can get along in the real world.
You wrote:
“But if you choose to grow a backbone and stay, then you will have to face the price of your privilege, and no…it won’t be pleasant at all.”
Since you present yourself as a writer, you should write better. Unfortunately, you regularly butcher phrases — delivering gems like “face the price”. What’s that?
By the way, I read the following article to which your comment was linked. After finishing the article, it was clear that Robert Jensen, the author, is a world-class wimp.
Why White People Are Afraid
What do white people have to be afraid of in a world structured on white privilege? Their own fears.
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no_slappz
Thanks for proving my point.
You will have absolutely no clue what that means, but people like you are not worth an additional second…just FYI.
*blushes* I love it when your types can’t stop talking about me, though. Makes me all tingly.
Ó Dochartaigh,
I grew up in (and still live in) Appalachia too. I consider it “another world” and I understand perfectly well the difficulty that arises when dealing with “outsiders”.
However, when POC are angry, and you know they have a right to be angry, telling them to calm down or tone it down is derailing. Let them vent. Just listen to what happened. Then ask for suggestions on how you can handle things “from your end”.
It’s 1 + 1–just Listen & Ask–and that’s it.
But if that’s just too much humility for you, then you should probably give up now.
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Well I appreciate the response without being flamed or called weak and spinless. I guess my biggest question then is, does the opinion of non racist whites even matter to POC?
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the ways non racist approach these discussions could help to a more meaningful experience. for one be willing to fully hear another persons experience even if it contradicts to what you think you know. let the new information sit with you, before formulating a rebuttal. understand that although you may not be personally responsible for anyone’s oppresion, you do benefit from their oppression.
this is a point that may be off topic but i do believe to be germaine. non racist need to educate other white people. i find white people are more open to believe things if they come from another white person then they will coming from a member of the oppressed group.
being an active and vocal non racist is not for everyone, you must be prepared to be misunderstood by some poc and disowned by some whites.
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Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
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while i would never label my time learning of other peoples struggles to navigate society as damned if you do, i can see how someone looking for instant gratification or a person not fully invested in the experience would.
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most white men just don’t like black women…its that simple and most black women just don’t like white men…the sooner people accept this the better we all shall be.
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ankhesen, you wrote:
“You will have absolutely no clue what that means, but people like you are not worth an additional second…just FYI.”
Like I said, you wrote “face the price.” In other words you butchered a common phrase. You meant to write either “face the facts” or “pay the price”. But you didn’t, you just botched it and became defensive.
As I said, “face the price” is a senseless phrase that shows you really do not know anything about writing.
Second, I also read your post about Drapetomania. It is more proof that you are a full-time resident in the black alternate universe of unreality.
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Ó Dochartaigh,
1) Don’t declare you’re not racist. No one–white or non-white–should ever declare they are “absotively” not racist, especially in the case of whites. >Internalization works against us all in America, but unlike whites, POC are forced from childhood to face issues about ourselves and others. Psychological and physical survival often depends upon it.
And honey, you’re from Appalachia so….
So from the get-go,assume that you are, and then work backwards from there.
2) As for POC accepting/caring about your opinions…that takes trust, which has to be earned, so I recommend getting your vaccine for Ecirb & Rankin Syndrome first. It’ll help you understand how & why this takes so much work and humility. You have to be willing to listen to us first, and we’ve obviously got a lot to say.
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I wish we could get away from “personal attacks” or put downs. The majority of pariticpants are here to share and engage in healthy discussion and debate. Of course, you get a few ‘radicals’ that show up briefly to make attempts at derailing the dialogue.
I understand though, it is hard to stay focused when on the receiving end of a personal attack. (hey, my wife often trys this derailing tactic with me – and sometimes it works! DOH! doh!)
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Montgomery says that black men often do come off seeming like scuzz balls to white women.
Somewhere in between the white man “normal guy” approach and the white man “scuzzball” approach, in general, for the limited set of black men I’ve had flirt with me. More direct looking me over and quicker moves toward more private interaction than the usual white man “normal guy” approach that I would get in my single days, but not as prone to actually putting their hands on me before I’d invited it as the white man “scuzzballs” were. Actually, the only ethnic group from which I never got a “scuzzball” approach was, for whatever reason, Asian men. FWIW.
But it’s always possible that impression says more about me than about the men.
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Maybe few white men marry black women because they’re learning what we handsome black lads have ALWAYS known:that too many black broads are FAT,FUGLY,B***HY,FRIGID AND IN MANY CASES,ALL FOUR!!!!
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Brklyn Bryan,I’ve been laid QUITE OFTEN,thank you.I should have said
“Blaine dolls,” though,as Barbie seems to have dumped Ken for the Aussie “stud,”Blaine.
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You are all missing the point. The main problem is that black women have serious attitude problems. This is a generalization, of course, but if you look at the average black woman aged 20-40 versus the average white/Hispanic/Asian etc. woman – same age group, it’s pretty obvious that black women in general have real attitudes. I personally do not want to mess with that. I see it every day in a work environment that is racially very mixed. I will never date a black woman from what I’ve seen. That’s all there is to it.
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What, pray tell, is “attitude”, Todd?
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@ Todd
Your work environment is not the world. Your observations there cannot be projected onto “most” Black women, by any stretch.
Also, you may just be more sensitive to a certain kind of “attitude.” It may be that other groups have other “attitudes” which the men of their groups perceive and complain about.
Does this “attitude” apply equally regardless of:
Level of education?
Country of origin?
Religious of philosophical beliefs?
Age?
Subcultural Associations?
If it does, then we’ll have to reclassify melanin as some kind of irritant.
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@King
“If it does, then we’ll have to reclassify melanin as some kind of irritant.”
Ok, that totally made me laugh.
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King says,
@ Todd
Your work environment is not the world. Your observations there cannot be projected onto “most” Black women, by any stretch.
Also, you may just be more sensitive to a certain kind of “attitude.” It may be that other groups have other “attitudes” which the men of their groups perceive and complain about.
Does this “attitude” apply equally regardless of:
Level of education?
Country of origin?
Religious of philosophical beliefs?
Age?
Subcultural Associations?
If it does, then we’ll have to reclassify melanin as some kind of irritant.
laromana says,
King, thanks for challenging the LIES, MYTHS, and STEREOTYPES these ANTI-BW RACISTS are using to TRASH the HUMANITY, DIGNITY, and FEMININITY of BW.
PRO-BW supporters should ALWAYS CONFRONT/CONDEMN ANTI-BW RACISM in an effort to DESTROY it.
Also PRO-BW supporters should especially CONFRONT/CONDEMN the MANY RACIST, ANTI-BW BM (the ONLY men on the planet) who think it’s a “GOOD” thing to PUBLICLY ATTACK the HUMANITY, DIGNITY and FEMINININTY of the women who MOST RESEMBLE their MOTHERS/GRANDMOTHERS/SISTERS.
Talk about having a “SERIOUS ATTITUDE PROBLEM”.
These MINDLESS, HATEFUL, RACIST, ANTI-BW BM seem to FORGET that the ONLY reason they exist is because a BW CHOSE to birth them.
At the very LEAST they OWE BW RESPECT for this BASIC ACT of DECENCY on their behalf.
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My husband is the friend’s guy. We talked now and then and work. He kept hanging out near my desk. A co-worker told me, “See how he looks at you?” I thought he was not bad looking. But I didn’t think much about it. If he’s interested, I told her, he’ll open his mouth. Then one day, he asked me after discussing great indian food, “let’s meet each other for lunch sometime.” I said “yeah, maybe.” Then left it at that. He came back later and asked me for a real date. He had to drive 25 miles to pick me up at my house. The rest is history.
Thankfully, I’ve never experienced scuzz bag come ons from white men. Black men though! That has no bearing on my current relationship. One bad apple doesn’t spoil the whole bunch. It just so happens that I was lucky to find my match in a white guy.
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I think the reason more White men don’t date Black women has more to do with feminism than racism. I made a post about this on my blog.
Too many Black American women are hostile towards men in general, and since it takes a lot for a guy to date or marry (not just shag) outside his ethnicity, being a harpy just makes it even more unappetizing.
I know that’s something women don’t want to hear, but it’s the truth. Even those of us who know how to behave get tarred with the same brush because we (as a group) don’t do enough to counter the ones with bad attitudes.
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WEll there should not be mix marriages allow but to continue you destruction of black people,by marring us God Said not to mix our Blood,and who do should die,they lost there life in God. That is a Divine Law.Marriage will never work,not between blacks and the whites.
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@gt1085/Mixed race marriages won’t work between white and black people or simply won’t work? I’m just wondering.
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Nicole,you just fell to understand,it takes a Godly man for black women, the men refuse ,which leave our women to seek out what they are missing in there menbut there is 1 lurking in the dark waiting for its prey the black women,still they are killing us by interracial marriages,it is truely sicking.if your caucasian you can`t understand,and it in your Bible
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gt1085 said:
“God Said not to mix our Blood,and who do should die,they lost there life in God. That is a Divine Law.”
And just where did God say that?
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@gt: actually, just saw a statistic ( and lost it too :D) according which black&white marriages between black women and white men are among the most enduring of all marriages 😀 makes one think, doesn’t it??
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@gt1085
My parents marriage has worked just fine for the last 40 something years, thank you very much.
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Blanket generalizations are just plain stupid. Many of them are based on the false premise that all of us Black women or most of us Black women are sooooo hideous that no man (of any “race”) would desire us.
Lemme break it down so that it can forevuh be broke down: Black women are not any more hostile toward men (of any “race”) than women of any “race” are toward men (of any “race”). Ergo: Black women are not any more gullible toward men (of any “race”) than women of any “race” are toward men (of any “race”). If my argument of extremes offends, just think how stupid it is that we Americans continue to act — much of the time — as though there are only two “races” on this planet.
[An aside: I sure hope there *is* life on some other planet — and I’m talkin’ ’bout the kind that has the potential to annihilate us humans — because then we *all* might realize that we are all part of the human race.]
This Black woman is intelligently cautious when dealing with men (of any “race”) that she finds unappealing, and she is intelligently flirtatious when encountering one that magically has crossed her path. To the Nicoles of the world, there are many Black women among us who were raised to love Self. One of my Southern maternal grandmother’s oft-recited expressions was: “God don’t like ugly, and he sho aint crazy ’bout pretty.”
I often quote Grandma but don’t often quote singer Christina Aguilera, but here goes: “I am beautiful, no matter what they say …” I *am* beautiful. I love myself. I also do not depend on media images to determine whether I am phenotypically appealing and sexually desirous.
I know what I want, in life and in my man. May Mae West forgive me for parsing her phrase, but I want mucho life in my men. I thought Jon Cryer was adorable in Pretty in Pink, but this — my life — ain’t that kinda movie, for I have slain many a lame Duckie for attempting to block my aim at the object of my affection. Call it Chantale’s Manifesto.
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Well i’m a white guy from the UK and I find BW very attractive. in answer to the question I agree with Peanut that Most white guy arn’t interested in BW and vice versa. though it is debatable to how many WM like BW I would think there are probably more WM interested in BW than there is BW interested in WM. Anways looking forward to part four if there is a part four to come.
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i like to see older interracial couple i think its more genuine. thats my thought.
for the white men that like black women i think they should go up to them and tell them. alot of black women get hit on all the time. approaching her would be better.
i know alot of white men like black women, but its the mentality that stands in the way.but when people get to know people its a totally different ball game. but you have to be comfortable within your own skin. thats why i admire older interracial couple because i think they reach that point in life that they are more comfortable in their skin. its not about skin color, hair,status,or history. just love and companionship.
i also think that bw and wm is a powerfull couple because of their history. compare to bm and ww. or maybe i’m being bias.
my opinion
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So in a nutshell, white men in EUROPE or Europeans abroad are pretty much where we non-white dark skinned women have to look if we want a white husband. When even though we’re Native American people look at dark skin and think “black” and all the assumptions that go with that, the simplest way to get a husband before we’re, oh, I don’t know, 80, would be to just go directly for the European ones.
But wait, even that sometimes doesn’t work, even THEY sometimes get racist, if they’ve been here in America or Canada too long and have been too exposed to American and Canadian racism too long. Or if they grew up on American TV and media…and as I spend my time listening to Radio Belgium just to keep up with my French, I notice that they spend a lot of their news air-time focusing on what’s happening in New York City…eeww. Because where American news spreads, so goes American racist ideology.
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“So in a nutshell, white men in EUROPE or Europeans abroad are pretty much where we non-white dark skinned women have to look if we want a white husband.”
But why would you “want” a White husband exclusively, anyway?
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CowboyJohn-Brad says,
Maybe few white men marry black women because they’re learning what we handsome black lads have ALWAYS known:that too many black broads are FAT,FUGLY,B***HY,FRIGID AND IN MANY CASES,ALL FOUR!!!!
laromana says,
abagond, TROLL alert!
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“peanut
most white men just don’t like black women…its that simple and most black women just don’t like white men…the sooner people accept this the better we all shall be.”
Apparently, so for a nonwhite woman who doesn’t like the kind of men who can’t keep their hands off of me, at least here on North America, that would mean accepting loneliness and spinsterhood and dying an old maid somewhere with a houseful of talking cats. Because if I “accept” that the kind of men I deserve and grew up with and have everything in common with except skin color, don’t like me, and never will, then there would be no reason to go on living if I didn’t want to be alone for the rest of my life.
What a morbid suggestion. Accept loneliness?!
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Why would we “want” a White husband exclusively anyway – what is this whole blog about, anyway?! We don’t want what can’t support us and will treat us like dirt, now would we?! Or someone we have nothing in common with except skin color which means NOTHING anyway. People assume because our skin is brown that we were raised to think a certain way, live our lives a certain way, eat certain foods cooked a certain way, in other words cultural assumptions based on the color of our skin. Why be schlepped in with someone who has nothing in common with us culturally just because we have similar skin coloring – ?! Those of us who are what Blacks call “raised white” should and deserve to want white husbands. So that we match CULTURALLY and in education and upbringing, that’s why.
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Well then you said it: “Skin color means NOTHING anyway.” So then why worry about finding a certain skin color to get with?
I have no hang-ups with you preferring a guy who listens to say… Coldplay, Snow Patrol, or Strays Don’t Sleep, or whatever you’re into, but you’re not White and you listen to whatever you listen to, why do you suppose that only a White guy would be your cultural match. How about the Latino guy, or the cool Asian guy, or even the Black guy who IS your cultural match? Why narrow it down to JUST the White guy?
You are more a slave of the color that means nothing than you think.
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@King
Thank you. I was trying to come up with something constructive to say because that just blew my mind. +1 what you said.
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@King
Exactly… Preference is one thing, but I hate when people pretend like there are NO blacks/non-white who are into their hobbies just so they can justify their preferences.
That ish is getting tired.
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Also, acknowleging that the majority of black women are not sexually interested in white men(and visa versa) does not mean black women are destined to be alone. White men are not saviors/last resorts ect.
Where are people getting this from?
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There’s a need for a little bit of nuance. Certainly there are individuals in every “race” who, say, listen to Coldplay. However, the “races” differ in culture if only because there are barriers to social interaction between them and people who don’t interact don’t have an opportunity to exchange ideas and sentiments. Thus, the members of some racial groups are more likely than others to listen to Coldplay.
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I just want to say something. It seems that alot of black women are obsessed with this ” I got to find a man ” thing. Look, for you young ladies out there, I just want to say something. Enjoy your youth while you can. Stop worrying about find Mr. Right and focus on developing yourself. There is a saying. “Youth is wasted on the young”. You young ladies are so into finding a man when you should be focused on enjoying life in general. Focus on your education, your health, having a good time, and your friends. Life doesn’t end just because you don’t have a man or children. I have to say that alot of my stress began when I got married. I am grateful to have my husband. He is a kind and decent man but I often wish I was young again, when I was single!!! I was young, gifted and black!!! And I had a good time!!! Enjoy life. Don’t worry about men and what they think of you! You young ladies are beautiful. Don’t believe the nonsense that sadistic people tell you. You are beautiful!!!
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@ FG
I get that.
But if you go to a Coldplay concert in a large city, you’ll notice that the crowd is mixed—not White.
Sure, there may be more Whites than any other single ethnic group, but there are more Whites in the country so… of course.
The idea is that a LOT of people listen to Coldplay, or VAST, or Keane. There are a lot of people who snowboard, or ride their Cannondale touring bicycle to work. They are not all White people by a long shot. Culture in NOT color.
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What many of you don’t realize is that many of you have dodged a bullet. If there are alot of men out there who have narrow minded opinions of black women, then why do you want to be with them in the first place! There are worser things in life then not having a man! Imaging spending the rest of your life with a man who doesn’t make you happy. Maybe because he can’t relate to you or because he can’t see you for who you are. Look, enjoy life. Smell the roses. Enjoy your youth while you have it!!! Have fun and don’t let others spoil your happiness!!! Look in the mirror and pay attention to all the things you love about yourself. Your hair, your beautiful brown skin, your eyes, your full hips. Smile and know that God didn’t make a mistake when he made you. If others don’t recognize that, then that is their problem. They missed out! Oh well. But enjoy this time of your life while you have it. I didn’t realize how blessed I was when I was younger. Now I know what I had. But like I said earlier. Youth is wasted on the young.
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Why the heck does this post still keep getting comments? It’s one of the most commented on posts abagond has written.
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When I was younger, I was so busy looking for a man and obsessing over having children. But now I realize that I should have been focusing on what makes me happy. And believe me, being married doesn’t always make you as happy as you would like. So focus on all the things that God has blessed you with. And if you still think that having a man is the most important thing, then don’t settle. People will tell you that finding the man of your dreams is impossible. But that isn’t true. Ask God what you want in a man and then just believe. He will send that man in your life. Don’t believe all the negative things that people will tell you. But in the mean time. Enjoy today! And thank God for all the wonderful things that you have in your life. Stay positive and most of all, have fun!!!! If I could only go back in time and do things all over again. Well, that is all I have to say. And remember again, you are beautiful and don’t let anyone make you think otherwise!
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Gimme a good black woman and I marry her in flat second. Gimme a any good woman, black, white, red, yellow, green, purple, turquise, emerald, violet, pink or any other color and I marry her or live with her and so on.
For me it is about the person. Is she a good woman for me? Am I a good man for her? Do we have fun in bed and outside of it? Does she like good food and nice evenings or does she like to go out to the raves and pop some E’s? Is she a speed freak or mellow fellow? Is she clean and sober or addict with thousand addictions?
@jeri: our bodies may wear down but as long as our brains work we are as old as we want to be. I will never accept the conventions and social constructions of being old. Not as long as I’m not a senile. 😀
@coldplay: they have some good songs, but not my favorites. A good song by that Coldplay guy and Kanye West, though. (I coming home??? or something like that)
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Just as a Public Service announcement…. Its been over a year, I’m still white, she’s still black, we are still married.
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Pamela…I’m a biracial woman with a white husband. I have been treated VERY badly by Black men, but I will not make broad generalizations about all Black men.
I know that there are good Black men out there…I’ve simply never been with one. I love my husband because he is a good man, not because he is white. He works hard, he is responsible to a fault, he is not abusive, and he takes care of me.
If you’re attracted to white men, that’s fine…but please don’t think that all Black men are rotten based on your experiences. I’ve had bad experiences with some Black men, but I don’t hate them.
@ Chantale Reve….girl, I like your style! Your positive attitude is refreshing. 😉
@ Jeri…ITA with what you said. That was brilliant.
@Todd…the line about all Black women having bad attitudes is played out. I agree that a lot of Black women DO have nasty attitudes, but not all of them do. Again, it is counter-productive to generalize an entire group based on the actions of some individuals.
Furthermore, I will say that society is often very unkind to Black women. This doesn’t excuse bad behavior…but it does explain why some Black women are bitter and angry. When a person lacks power and has been oppressed, constantly bombarded with messages that they are inferior in every sense, what do you expect? It is difficult to be positive and happy in reaction to all the hatred being directed at you simply because you happen to be of the “wrong” race and gender.
Some Black women take the attitude too far, but I’m sure it comes from a place of real pain…they have been hurt so deeply that this attitude becomes a part of who they are. Above all, learn to view Black women as individuals. If you believe that every Black woman you meet has a bad attitude, this is an unfair approach. Some have STANK attitudes while others are as sweet as can be. It depends on the woman.
I’ve been accused of having an “attitude” when I did not, so this should give you an idea of how widely held this stereotype seems to be.
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I am a white man married to a Nigerian lady.
My association with black ladies started when I was eight years old. A Haitian girl came to the small rural town in New Hampshire where I lived. We were the same age and there was no one else to hang out with so we spent a lot of time together. We decided we would get married when we grew up. This was 1949. She went back to Haiti and that was the end of that.
Fast forward to 1961. I was in the Marine Corps. One of my friends was a black man from Washington DC. He had saved my life in Southeast Asia and we were very close. We would take weekend liberty in DC. To make a long story short I dated his sister for two years. We decided that being a married couple at that time was not easy. She went on to work in the south and we lost touch with each other. She was a teacher like her mother and wanted to help the poor blacks in the rural south.
It’s not a black thing with me. I married a white woman, we had two children. We had a good marriage. She died in 1985.
Unfortunately my marriage to this Nigerian lady has been anything but happy. Other Nigerians disapprove of her behavior. It’s not cultural differences — this lady is all the bad things that white men think about black ladies.
I made a bad mistake.
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Wow, Everett…I’m sorry to hear that your marriage is so unhappy. 😦
It sounds like you simply married someone who isn’t the kind of person you thought she was. That happens sometimes. But I wouldn’t say that her behavior is due to her being black.
There are good and bad women in all races, cultures, and colors.
If you don’t mind my asking, have you considered visiting a marriage counselor?
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I’m not that interested in marriage in general. It’s just a formality. Good relationship first, marriage second. It’s very common in Finland to be in a relationship (with kids) for even a decade before getting married.
Alas, I have a 10-year old son, but was never married. Still a bachelor, woo-hoo! 😉
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And yes, I’m one of those guys who require at least an eye contact to approach a woman. Maybe I should’ve been pushier, but I’m just not like that.
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I am a “white” guy who married a Jamaican lady. Her dad was part Chinese and her Great-Grandmother (on Mom’s side) was a very “light-skinned” lady. She is frequently mistaken for Nigerian or Kenyan. Yup, she looks “black”.
I never was afraid of having “black” kids. My daughter is most often mistaken for Latin-American or Native-American. She has my complexion, but gets a tan quicker and keeps it longer. My son has a perma-tan and a half-fro so most of his white friends consider him “black”, and he says some of his black friends say he’s too “white”. (It seems to have more to do with how much rap music he has on his ipod at any given time than complexion or race)
Here’s the best part – neither of them consider themselves to be exclusively black or white. They are most likely to refer to themselves as “mixed”. Both of them have had friends argue with them: “That little white dude can’t be your dad” or “You can’t be a white girl if your mom is black unless you’re adopted or something”. But my kids see this as other people’s problems – society’s hang-ups on race.
I have accepted the reality that I can’t completely understand some of the prejudices they face. There are days where I have to realize that I’m essentially an old white guy raising a young black man. I have taught him that he has no control over what other people think of him based upon his appearance. The only shot he’ll have at changing anyone’s mind will be when he opens his mouth. When he’s proven himself capable of polite, respectful dialogue it has earned him respect, employment opportunities and scholarship interest from universities.
I can’t answer for every white man. I imagine that more of us would date or marry black women if more of us were confident individuals. I was also fortunate enough to have been raised to respect people of all cultures, and had no fear of how my parents or grandparents would react. Both our families have accepted our marriage and our children. Ironically, my wife’s step-dad was the most trouble in the beginning. He chose to meet me long after I married his daughter, around the time our first child was born. We won him over with Father’s day cards for Grandpa…he liked the attention. Before long he was spoiling his grand-kids rotten. He and I got along fine ever since the kids were little.
I think fear is always the biggest obstacle and fuels all prejudice. The worst fear is often the insecurity that prevents many of us, black and white alike, from befriending, dating or marrying whoever we like because we are more concerned with what our mom or our buddies will think about us. Sometimes we have a family member who’s got their head up their own butt (like my father-in-law used to be) and we don’t know how to handle them so we allow this to influence our choices.
Life is way too short to let fear rule us.
Three words for everyone:
Get over it!
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Most of you people on here is just so blind it is shameful.
FIRST OF ALL, ” EVERY RACE IN THIS WORLD IS BLACK. WE ALL XOME FROM AFRICA. so please.
NEXT, WE ALL BLEED RED, have two eyes, ten fingers so on and so forth. GO BEYOND WORLDLY MATTERS PEOPLE. LOVE IS LOVE AND IT DONT COME WITHIN COLOR. INFACT, it is blind to it. I’m always getting hit on by all races. White men, black men, Arab, Indian, even a Chinese men. People really.
There is more to life. If you can’t love someone because of the color of their skin it is because YOU have an problem within yourself.
Black women have an attitude. Yeah, we are the only race of women that have been rape, beaten, use and abuse for 400 hundred years. Is this an excuse? NO, it’s an effect. Not only have other races abuse black females but even black men insult black females. People, PLEASE, the chains must end somewhere, but nonetheless, they will end. Truth does not need proof or witnesses to be binding. It is what it is because it can be no other way.
People of color are always a topic because we are feared.( NOT PHYSICALLY ;for the slow learners.) NOT BECAUSE WE ARE LESS THAN. THIS IS A LIE TO KEEP PEOPLE FROM SEEKING THE TRUTH.
Are people of color the supreme race. NO! THERE IS NO SUPREME RACE, but we were and are the first.
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People, for heaven sake, ignorance is not bliss. It is just outright foolish. I’ve dated an Arab for crying out loud. Did he treat me better then a black man? Yes, but that doesn’t make him better. love is love. Love is not less than love because of the skin we are in. Smh. I will never get used to the mentality of man.
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“Black women have an attitude. Yeah, we are the only race of women that have been rape, beaten, use and abuse for 400 hundred years. Is this an excuse? NO, it’s an effect. Not only have other races abuse black females but even black men insult black females. People, PLEASE, the chains must end somewhere, but nonetheless, they will end. Truth does not need proof or witnesses to be binding. It is what it is because it can be no other way.”
Yup, damn us with evil attitudes. I don’t know. It depends on the person. The are plenty of non-black women with funky attitudes. White men never abuse or put down their women. All races do that crap, but they only want to focus on it when blacks do it.
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Because black women have a wonderful body and big breasts and big vagina. Black or Ebony women are very sexy. Sometimes, white men are tempted by black women to have sex with them. That’s why some white men are married with black women because they are sexy to them.
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Remember, not only white men want ebony women. All kinds of types of men. The truth of all,that men have not revealed their secret fantasies of these women. Because it is true.
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I’ve found that women of all races dig me. I completely understand because I am awesome, just ask me. I’ve dated and had sex with white ones, brown ones, black ones, yellow/brown ones (filipinas) and guess what? They’re all AWESOME, they’re all NEEDY, they love attention, they love little gifts, they are all PSYCHO, they all make life worth living!! I just wish I could live to be 200 and do it all over again. I love women.
As far as the comments I read about white guys and their racist statements, wanna hear a few from black women I’ve dated? “That bartender is staring as us “The service is slow and I know why” “You white boys are_______(insert some sterotype here). If you focus on race, you’ll get your wish, other people around you will to. Granted that was only three ladies who said those kind of things, and I wrote it off as them not being comfortable dating outside their race, because they had never done that before. I was dating THEM, and not their skin, and I quit dating THEM because I didn’t want them to be uncomfortable anymore, but I would never say ALL black women focus on the racial aspect, that’s cheap and insincere, because some really awesome black women have made my day and night, same with one particular hispanic woman who’s making my day right now. I’ve only dated one hispanic woman and she’s AWESOMER maybe even the AWSOMEST (I create my own words too!) So should I say all hispanic women are AWESOMEST because of one?
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In regards to black women and southern men, I can understand why they would distrust them, the sheer amount of men I’ve known over the years who have turned out to be racist, even ones who seem to be one good terms with black men and women, is disappointingly high.
Women too for that matter.
That being said; it wasn’t until I got online that I ever knew there was a stereotype about black women being sluts.
By and large the racism I encountered as projected by people in the south was based purely on their skin. They were black so they were racist against them.
Black Women seemed to be treated more as non-entities than anything else. Not that I’m trying to discredit black women’s experience, but talking about it from the perspective of people talking about them behind their backs more than anything else.
IR being contagious; yeah thats pretty true, at least in my experience, once one person comes out of that respective closet there’s a whole bunch of guys that start showing their attraction for black women.
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I have tried dating black women in my late sixth form schooling days, but found a majority of black women and girls to be extremely bossy, possessive and controlling. I also dated a Jewish girl too and their worse than dating a black girl. I tend to avoid manipulative, control freak, self righteous/Self Centered and Materialistic, and I don’t stay in a relationship with a woman who doesn’t like my hairstyle and wants to shave my head! (I love My hair so fuck off, I’m staying single lol) and I refuse to date a woman who isn’t 100% faithful and cheats on me when I’m not cheating on her. Women in general I avoid unless you do not not possess any of the bad points like being bossy, materialist capitalist gold digging self centered man eater or even worse a militant feminist. Free and Single is th place to be 😀
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Why, thank you Michael…glad you cleared that up.
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The black women I have dated have been no different from any other kind of women I’ve dated. They liked me because I listened to them, respected their opinions and gave them affection. I liked them because they were affectionate and were interested in what I had to say. In the end, there was just no deeper connection nor enough of common interests, just like with the white women I dated and separated with.
It takes a lot to form a strong relationship, and mental and intellectual attraction is stronger than a mere physical one.
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My experience with the few white men I’ve dated:
First group: Only want me for the experience. This isn’t hard to figure out.
Second group: Want a black friend to culture themselves. Asks many questions.
Third group: Looking for a wife of any colour. Talks about kids by the 3rd date.
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@Hannu
The black women I have dated have been no different from any other kind of women I’ve dated.
In the words of Kylie, I like to think that I have a certain ‘Je ne sais quoi’ about me 😉
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Look, I’m a white male and I have been married to a African-American female for 29 years and we live in the deep south (Pensacola, Florida) and we raised 4 kids two from her first marriage (African-American husband) and we raised two kids we had together. I learned this, BE YOURSELF, treat all people you meet with RESPECT, also women will treat YOU with respect if you treat them in that fashion, trust me on that. I have always felt African-American were beautiful and I was attracted to them my whole life, I cared less how other people felt. May-be this will help women and men find the love of your life, color mean nothing love and respect means all and that is what we look for.
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@Andrew
You are too kind!I love hearing about Caucasian men like you and other men of different races that respect Black women. All races of women deserve respect and especially Black women because are the women of the most hated race on the planet. Black women like me are beautiful and loyal, FOR THE MOST PART,(not all Black women are beautiful and loyal- what Michael O’Faherty pointed out)
Honestly I don’t think most White men think like Andrew. Most of them aren’t attracted to Black women and find our features rather unattractive. You don’t know how much White guys in my small, predominantly White neighborhood say and tell me that they don’t like Black girls and that they are’t attractive. A lot of White guys lump all Black girls into his ghetto, loud, obnoxious. nasty, ugly category and NOT ALL Black women are like that! I know that I am not like that. It is not right. Bu that is racism and sterotypes at it’s best, telling other people how people are supposedly when they don’t realize that everyone is their own unique person.
I am attracted to all races of guys and I am 16 and a Black teenage girl. Although I am attracted to all races, I prefer Black guys to all the other races but I do kind of have a fetish and weakness for White guys. Especially if they are hot such as Channing Tatum or David Beckham. Until…………they break my heart and tell me that they don’t want a Black girl and that they are unattractive etc.
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I’m a white male, and have been attracted to bw since an early age. I do agree with bw being aggressive in rejection, and i do agree with wm waiting for a sign of interest. it took me hours at a mutual friends house to ask her out. thank goodness she has dated wm before or else we wouldnt be together today. since we have been dating I’ve become more assertive with her. i would also like to add bw are generally more concerned about pleasing thier mates more as compared to white females. I’m very happy to have jumped over that line and will never jump back over to date my own race again!
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@gary
since we have been dating I’ve become more assertive with her.
Do you say ‘sit’ and ‘walkies’ to her too… On a serious note you sound like you are her trainer or something, really, look at what you just said.
i would also like to add bw are generally more concerned about pleasing thier mates more as compared to white females.
Dare I ask, in what way?
&
I’m very happy to have jumped over that line and will never jump back over to date my own race again!
Then I suggest you dump all your preconceived ideas and notions and start speaking about BW as people and not some weird species you are discovering.
Anyway, if you are honest, decent and genuine (or are able to develop those traits) good luck to you and those who go along for the ride…
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@gary–
and i do agree with wm waiting for a sign of interest. it took me hours at a mutual friends house to ask her out. thank goodness she has dated wm before or else we wouldnt be together today.
Some Black American women have heard weird things about why White men ask Black women out and are wary. A Black woman friend of my aunt’s who went out to dinner with a White man was surprised that he pulled the chair out for her at the restaurant table when they went out to dinner. She also expected him to try to grope her in his car when he drove her home after dinner, but he didn’t. She told us afterwards, that he treated her like a lady the whole time, which surprised her. They are now married.
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wow, did you read way to far into it! assertive meaning not sitting back and standing by and waiting for her signals. if you are assertive with a wf she may take it two ways one to controlling and second being clingy.
i’m use to doing things for myself while dating a wf or being single, she will go out of her way which is a very welcoming and i do the same for her.
as far as not jumping back over isnt a ride or discovery of bw, its my own personal exper…..from dating and being married to wf; who care for nothing more then what they want from a man not from the relationship. ie health care, car, house etc….
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@gary
as far as not jumping back over isnt a ride or discovery of bw, its my own personal exper…..from dating and being married to wf; who care for nothing more then what they want from a man not from the relationship. ie health care, car, house etc….
Fair enough. It did read quite stereotypically though intially IMO….
Many women want these material things but on balance, of course it is best if this is due to you both aspiring to the same things.
Anyway, good luck to you. Its always nice to hear of happy unions
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Many white men do not have enough game when it comes to approaching black women. They either approach them drunk or come on too strong to the point you would assume they only want sex or they are just friendly & get friend zoned. The only white guy i have dated was turkish if that is even white, from what i have seen southern european white men ie. italian, greek, spanish are more confident in approaching women. I am open to dating white, just any nice man i don’t have a type, but i’m not one of those girls to put myself out there by being forward and ask men out, i liked to be wooed by a man & unfortunately many white men don’t seem to want to or don’t know how to do that with black women.
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I’m going to tell everybody whats the real reason why black women don’t marry white men.
I’m half white half native south american: Latin in one word. I love black girls in general, I like them fisicaly a lot too. Living in new york city I had a crush with a black girl a while ago, but she had a boyfriend that of course was black. From the beginig she said all the time that she was bored with him, he was too jelous, demanding, treated her bad, sometimes almost hited her etc. In the other hand I’m a very civilized person. I grew up in a very helthy enviroment, never saw violence, never thought about hurting a womam, believe in marriage and things like that. But this girl, no matter how good I am for her and no matter how bad this guy treated her, she’s always going to prefer him over me. Why?
Genetics! and sexual superiority. White man, asian, latin etc must accept that sexually speaking we’ll never gonna win a sexual competition against a regular black guy.
I know that relationships are about culture etc etc too. but the truth is that sexuality is what rules any couple relationship.
So what happens is that black girls demand much more in terms of sexuality than a white girl or an asiatic girl demands, it’s human instinct. To say it quickly, for a white girl, a white man should be enough. Sadly for me and all whites that like black girls, for a black girl, a white man is not enough. If I fell in love to a black girl again I would be scared of every single black man that comes around because even though I could give her a lot of cultural and social understanding, I know what rules is sexuality.
I’ve been thinking that probably interacial relationships are not a good thing, but everybody is gonna call me racist for that. But truth is not, I’m not racist. I love black girls, I have lots of black friends and I love them like my brothers, but when it comes to deeper things like natural human behavior I had to stay with the white girls, really really sad for me.
Please correct me if you think I’m wrong.
Thanks
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My Head agrees with you IC but my heart doesn’t want to. You make a good point, thanks for enlightening me.
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its because black women are racist towards white men you never see white guy black girl but white girl, black guy is everywhere ironically the white guy would at least take care of his kids
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@ Dominic Blais
Wrong. They are not racist but white men are not first choice. I have dated white men (ironically they ask me out), but I would never take it too far because I wanted a black male. When I did not find one to my liking I chose otherwise. Could I have married one of those white guys instead of being with the black guy….sure I was engaged to one of them. Truth is many black women hold out for the black man of their dreams. Nothing against the white guy. Just not first choice.
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@ IC
Late to answer this but I would be patient and look for black women that know what they want. I was that way and trust me I did give my husband (then friend) a hard time (he is Mexican). I wanted the black man for superficial reasons ( strength family acceptance etc.) but as I transitioned from girl to woman I realized that my then friend had all I needed and wanted. Sexually he is amazing and has been the only one to truly give me what I need in all categories.
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@ Dominic
What the hell.How can you say black women are racist just because most of us don’t want a white man.Hell go to youtube and see vids of white men degrading black women or saying look how easy black women are.matter of fact there is a vid on youtube called how to pick up black girls.IT’s degrading.The history between black women and white men is no love story.Your assumption that a white man would take care of his kids whereas black men wouldn’t is another reason why a lot of black women won’t date white men.You assume black men are not good enough but a white man is.Mighty white man will save the poor black woman from her no good black man.May i remind you white men are the original baby daddies.They would rape black women and have that no good black man you speak of take care of his kids.The major reason is because a white man won’t understand us the way black men do.White men don’t understand what its like to be black or a woman.
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How the f can you call us racist and you end your comment with a racist assumption that white men take care of their kids but black men don’t.Its not racist to want to date your own race,its self hate to not want to date someone that looks like you.If an asian decides to date only whites but not asians is that racist.Or is it only racist when someone wants to date their own but not whites.Don’t be mad that women want a man that is talk,dark,and handsome and it’s not a description of how white men look.
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IC’s comment gave me the willies. I do not even know where to begin. Also, anybody else get the feeling that some of these dudes with sour grapes come here to vent?
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@ Gen
Yes.
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@ic you wrong. very insecure.
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look at tha got me to do it too… a mass wave of posting for a 5 month old comment sheesh
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Love who you love regardless of race. I must say that I enjoy that 90 percent of the posters on here are intelligent and don’t resort to putting black women down unlike some of the other posts I see on the internet.
It hurts being told you aren’t as pretty because you don’t look as Caucasoid as other races of women. I am who i am. I struggled for a long time with my brown complexion. I grew up around mixed girls and being the “dark”one was hard-especially when I was ridiculed for being dark. I never hated anyone based on their skin color and I refuse to. Eventually I had to accept myself.
I won’t bash Black men. There are good black men out there, unfortunately the media doesn’t show that. I would be open to dating a white man. I currently like this guy-not because he is German-but because he is so attractive…I think it’s a Scorpio thing lol. He’s smart, funny, adorable, sweet…I could go on. I also had these feelings about a black guy as well. If the man I fall in love with happens to be non-Black then oh well.
To the guy that says, a white man can never satisfy a Black woman sexually: you sound insecure. Don’t sell yourself short. I believe sexuality has nothing to do with race. If a woman is really into you, you will turn her the bleep on lol. When I am into a guy, just the sight of him turns me on.
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A white man would have to find a black woman who wants to marry him, just the tite of this thread is racist and panders to the ridiculous notion that a white man must “deign” to give a black woman the time of day when in reality the average black woman finds the typical white male to be repugnant from a sexual and moral standpoint.
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I have several white men pursuing me now, not attracted to any of them, do not want to lead them to believe I am and white men have this weird attitude like they actually believe they r “bestowing” favor on a black woman by finding her attractive and expressing that..lol.
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[…] Why so few white men marry black women, part III | Abagond […]
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The Confederate flag is a Christian symbol dating back to the 12th century 1286 in Scotland. All Confederate flags and statues need to go back up and left alone. Black lives matter, black panthers and naacp are all hate groups and have no business in America. They are all terrorist, un-American, anti-American communist. Blacks need to go to Africa.
Lastly, I get so tired of the left democrats trying to compare the Confederate flag to a Nazi flag. There is a big difference ,Hitler back in 1935 did not want anything to do with the Confederate flag or choose to use it because Hitler need it represents FREEDOM, INDEPENDENCE, SOVEREIGNTY,STATE RIGHTS, CONFEDERATION, AND A CHRISTIAN SYMBOL.
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The Bible forbids race mixing and gay and lesbians all a one way ticket to hell known as the lake of fire.
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“The Bible forbids race mixing…”
Tell that to those old European invaders and enslavers who raped women on every continent.
You poor deluded person
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@ Christina Cale
Where exactly does it forbid race mixing?
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i beg to differ
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as an anecdote, when my wife tells me when black guys ‘crack’ (hit) on her, it sees to have a narrow range from let me get your number, here’s my number, i’m married too, various physical comments, not very imaginative,
but yes for me the two day rule was pretty much so you don’t look thirsty back in the day, of course. As noted elsewhere, my wife and I still have a difference of opinion, she maintains she asked me for a ride and I thought I asked her if she wanted one, not really important now, 7 years later!
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“A white man would have to find a black woman who wants to marry him, just the tite of this thread is racist and panders to the ridiculous notion that a white man must “deign” to give a black woman the time of day when in reality the average black woman finds the typical white male to be repugnant from a sexual and moral standpoint.”
That’s ok, “deepdkchocolate”. Mostwhite men feel the same about black women, so it’s all good. You go girl!
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…”it’s all good. You go girl!”
Another one of those “I hate Black people” types who LOVE using Black vernacular every chance they get.
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