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Archive for the ‘interracial dating’ Category

ClaudiaLynxOkCupid, an Internet dating website, put out their numbers on race and dating last week. Some of the main findings that I pull from it (OkCupid had a somewhat different take):

  1. Women: Middle Eastern women  are hot! Black women are not. White women are second-to-last (despite all that free marketing from Hollywood).
  2. Men: white men are on top, Asian Indian men dead last, black men second-to-last.
  3. Black women like white men more than they are liked back – even though men are dogs!
  4. Only some people prefer to date within their own race, like white women and Asian Indian men. Most do not given the chance.
  5. Race affects dating for both men and women and it is not just a matter of looks or stated preferences either.

“Hot”, “liked” and “prefer” are based on reply rates to messages between those whom OkCupid matched based on stated preferences and some other stuff. They also controlled for looks and male height, so this is not a tale of supposedly short Asian men or ugly black women.

While the reply rates were wildly different based on the race of the sender, there was little difference based on, say, Zodiac sign.

The advantage of the OkCupid study is that it looks at almost a million people and looks at their actions not their fine words. (They did throw in some opinion polls, but I am basing nothing on that.)

The disadvantage of the study is that their users are “better-educated, younger, and far more progressive” than most, that online dating can only be part of the picture and that their study gives the what but not the why.

Even so, their numbers generally do match what one New York dating service (whose name escapes me) found: that black men avoid dating black women and that American women avoid Asian men, particularly Asian Indian men.

But, unlike OkCupid, the owner of that dating service asked his customers why: black men told him they do not need a dating service to meet black women while American women said they do not want to date foreign men – which apparently they had stereotyped Asian men as being (the perpetual foreigner stereotype).

The OkCupid post got over 500 comments. I did not read them all, but most of the ones I saw kept making the point that having certain preferences is  not the same as being racist. That misses the point that the study made: race still mattered even after taking that stuff into account.

Women listed in order of reply rates to their messages:

  1. 49.5 Middle Eastern
  2. 46.0 Pacific Islander
  3. 44.4 Other
  4. 43.7 Asian
  5. 42.7 Indian
  6. 42.5 Hispanic/Latin
  7. 42.3 Native American
  8. 42.1 White
  9. 34.3 Black

Men listed in order of reply rates to their messages:

  1. 29.2 White
  2. 27.8 Native American
  3. 26.8 Other
  4. 25.7 Middle Eastern
  5. 24.6 Pacific Islander
  6. 23.1 Hispanic/Latin
  7. 22.2 Asian
  8. 21.7 Black
  9. 20.8 Indian

Who replies to black women (by reply rate):

  • 41: Native American, Other
  • 40: Middle Eastern
  • 39:
  • 38:
  • 37: Black, Indian
  • 36: Hispanic/Latin
  • 35:
  • 34: (the mean)
  • 33:
  • 32: Pacific Islander, White
  • 31: Asian

Who replies to black men (by reply rate):

  • 28: Black
  • 27: Native American
  • 26:
  • 25: Pacific Islander
  • 24: Other
  • 23:
  • 22:
  • 21: Indian, Middle Eastern, White (the mean)
  • 20:
  • 19: Hispanic/Latin
  • 18:
  • 17: Asian

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SomethingNew

Here are some racist things that commenter Black&German and her friends have heard white men say to them as black women:

  1. The best thing about black women is their asses. Is it true you like anal?
  2. I prefer black women because white women are such prudes.
  3. I like black women. Just not the ghetto ones.
  4. Hey, you’re pretty! You look just like Halle Berry. (Or whatever famous black woman you can think of. They all look alike, right?)
  5. You know you want it! Everybody knows black women can’t get enough.
  6. What do you mean you don’t want to date me? You should be happy I even asked!
  7. How about we get to know each other a little better? You know, go to my place. No? What if I pay you?
  8. I’ve always wanted to know what it’s like to do it with a black girl.
  9. My friend over there just came back from [some overseas country] and he’s looking for some female company. You’re very pretty. How much?
  10. I don’t usually like black women but you’re different. You’ve got class.
  11. I heard your boyfriend is white. So, you like white dick? Want some of mine?
  12. [If they refuse to go out with you, slam them against the wall and scream in their face.] You think you’re too good for me?
  13. So, if black men have such big dicks doesn’t that mean black women… ?
  14. Don’t go acting all uppity.
  15. Oh, God. My dad would totally kill me if he knew I was talking to you.
  16. You know, if I knocked you up our babies would look white.

Her remarks:

The last one (about babies) was actually after dating him for a few weeks, sitting in a nice restaurant. I nearly choked to death on my pasta. What the hell was he thinking? I didn’t stay to find out.

I’d heard that some white men think that black women are whores but I thought that just meant “easy”. I didn’t know that they assumed we were actually prostitutes. And that the “nice” looking ones are just expensive prostitutes. The first time I was propositioned I just stared like a deer in the headlights. I thought it was a bad joke, or something.

I once had a drunk guy in a bar stick ten dollars in my pants and ask me to dance for him. Umm… Sure, honey. Just let me find that pole I always carry with me…

I do have to say that the guy who slammed me against the wall was hyped up on something. Crystal, probably. That stuff makes people crazy. And horny. Baaaaaad combination.

Although I must admit I’ve had black men make some similarly – ahem – inappropriate comments, as well.

The most amazing thing is where some of these comments were made. Like in the hallway outside of a database management seminar or at the company Christmas party. Some men have no shame.

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Pretty-in-Pink-movie-03I never thought I would be writing a part three so soon, but when a post gets more than 300 comments, then it is time.

To review:

  • In part one I said that it boiled down to racism on the part of white men: they do not want black children.
  • In part two I said it is not quite that simple: way before marriage it is women who apply race to dating decisions, not men. Men are dogs and will go for any halfway good-looking woman they think they have a chance with. A Columbia University study on speed dating supports this view.

Now for part three: A big thing that keeps coming up in the comments is how white men approach black women. Often they wait for a black woman to show some clear sign of interest before they ask her out! It seems like a cowardly excuse. Man up and just ask her!

Dalyn Montgomery, also known as brohammas, has an interesting take on this at his blog, Pages From My Notebook. He is a white American man who lives in Philadelphia. He dated in the 1990s and, in the end, married a black woman.

He says white men have three main ways of approaching women:

  1. The scuzz ball: He expresses his interest directly. No games. If he gets shot down, he moves on. What his approach lacks in quality he makes up in quantity. Sooner or later some woman will say yes. He wants sex, not a girlfriend.
  2. The “normal” guy: He plays a cat-and-mouse game with a woman to show his interest, but not too directly or strongly: he does not want to seem like a scuzz ball – or appear too desperate (even if he is). That is why in “Swingers” (1996) they wait three days before they call a girl back.
  3. The “friends” guy: He becomes your friend, but he hopes to take it to another level later on, hoping that by then he has gained your trust, etc. This is how Duckie failed to get Molly Ringwald in “Pretty in Pink” (1986).

Most white men try each of these at some point in their lives. Some white men follow none of them: Montgomery calls them the curve balls.

Now he adds to all this that white people are taught that black people hate them.

So with all that in mind, here is how each approach views black women:

  • The scuzz ball: Black women, especially young ones, are easy and I need to get laid.
  • The normal guy: If she is extremely hot or if I have something to prove, then I will go after her, otherwise going after white women is way more promising.
  • The friends guy: What? Me with a black woman? Come on. (They lack confidence even with women of their own race.)

How do black women see this? Scuzz balls have the wrong sort of interest, of course, while the other two, from what I can tell, come off as having too little interest.

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White American men seem to go for certain kinds of black women and not for others. The same is true for black men and white women, but that is another post.

I have not done any grand survey nor am I setting forth any iron rules – I know all white men are not alike. These are  just some notes and observations of what I have noticed in New York.

If any black women or white men want to add their own general observations that would be great. If I have it all wrong, please tell me. I have some examples at the end. You can weigh in on them.

If you ask white men to name a beautiful black woman, most will name someone who is light-skinned, like Beyonce or Halle Berry. So you would think that among black women they would mainly go after light-skinned women. But the strange thing is they do not.

And yet they do prize whiteness in women, even in black women, but the whiteness they want is not as simple as skin colour. It is more in the general shape of her body – thin, maybe with large breasts, but not too big of a bottom. The features of her face can be black, but not too black. Hair, surprisingly, does not seem to matter that much. So it is not uncommon to see a white man with a dark-skinned black woman with natural hair.

Both black men and white men in America are affected by white ideas of female beauty, but they apply them to black women differently:

Black men apply it to skin colour (light) and hair (long and straight), but not so much to the shape of the body (still thick, though that seems to be changing).

White men are almost the opposite of that: they do not care so much about skin colour or hair – those who do apparently stick to white women – but they do care about the shape of the body and the features of the face.

Some examples:

Many white men would date these women: Iman, Jourdan Dunn, Gabrielle Union, Sanaa Lathan, Garcelle Beauvais, Lela Rochon, YaYa Da Costa, Angela Bassett, Kerry Washington, Aisha Tyler, any young black woman in an ad, in Playboy, any black weather girl or supermodel.

lela03.jpg

Most of these women have what I call a cutsie-pie face, like Gabrielle and Garcelle.

Way fewer white men would date these: Phylicia Rashad, Toccara Jones, Bria Myles, Estelle, Brandy Norwood, Adriana Bombom, Elise Neal, Latavia Roberson, Jill Marie Jones, Sade, Omotola, Liris Crosse, Angell Conwell, Heather Headley.

toccara029.jpgadrian07.jpgelise.jpgliris177.jpgangellconwell.jpg

By dating I do not mean sex. I mean someone they would seriously show to their mother as their girlfriend.

Heather Headley and Sade, by the way, are married to white men. But, like I said, not all white men are alike.

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