According to the Oxford dictionary, the official dictionary for this blog, racism is:
The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races: ‘theories of racism’
– Oxford dictionary, 2014
As far as I can tell, these are the seven main kinds of racism present in America:
1. Jim Crow racism – common among White Americans over 65: the Klan, lynchings, the N-word, etc. It is an open, sometimes violent, fear and hatred for Blacks and others. Until about 1940, science, religion, law and government backed it. It is what most Whites mean by “racism” and “bigotry”. It is no longer considered respectable among them, not even by:
2. Race realism – common among trolls on this blog and many on the right. It is an updated Jim Crow racism. The main difference is that it does not “hate” people of colour, it just looks down on them (even Asians, in a patronizing way) – but not out of prejudice, oh no, but out of a duty to truth:
scientific racism – the belief that science proves there are races among humans and that some races are better than others. Current science proves no such thing. Scientific racists say that is because the left has taken over the universities. But their “scientific” racism is pseudoscience, no better than ancient astronauts or UFOs. Human biodiversity (HBD) is its most common form.
3. Colour-blind racism – common among White Americans under 65. Unlike Jim Crow racism or race realism, it talks the talk of equality and does not blame biology for racial inequality. But it does not walk the walk: instead, it blames inequality on the cultural and social pathologies of Blacks and Latinos. It sees racism as natural – and yet dead! The Asian brain drain and its offspring, the model minority, prove it!
4. Islamophobia – Open, sometimes violent, fear and hatred of “Muslims”, particularly Arabs and Sikhs. The Brown Peril. Its scholarly form is called Orientalism.
5. Internalized racism – common among Black, Latino, Asian and Native Americans. This is where you are racist against yourself because of the racist brainwashing that comes standard in American society – through school, television, etc. For Blacks it even comes to them through the White racism that became part of their culture in slave times, leading to ideas like colourism, “good hair” and the N-word. There is no equal and opposite Black racism – just internalized White racism.
6. Institutional racism – racism by the courts, police, schools, universities, banks, the fashion industry, Hollywood, the labour and housing markets, etc. Those who say that “racism = prejudice + power” mean this kind. That is why they say people of colour cannot be racist – because they lack institutional power. Institutional racism grew directly out of:
7. Historical racism – my name for past institutional racism that still has an effect on the present. Like Natives being robbed of their land or Blacks being robbed of their labour, leading to the huge wealth gap between them and Whites.
See also:
- Jim Crow racism
- race realism
- colour-blind racism
- Islamophobia
- internalized racism
- institutional racism
- historical racism
Good post and article and it is so true. The truth is racism hasn’t gone away in this country, it has been shown in more subtle ways than ever before. Racism in America went from being overt, violent and open such as Jim Crow laws and segregation to more subtle such as political correctness to cover up their racism and using the term colorblind. Sadly racism is apart of this nation’s fabric and wouldn’t completely go away unless we, as Americans realize that America has a race problem and try to get rid of racism for good.
Like my mother thought me, times change but people don’t. Yes, times have change but there is as much racists today as there were in 1950. They just changed their tactics and ways of penetrating their racism.
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Great points, lots to consider and meditate on. Food for thought. Good post.
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Amy Chua is the “Tiger Mom” I read some exerpts from that book and read a story in People Magazine when they did a story on her. I felt sorry for her kids. I understand that mediocre is unacceptable and wanting her children to perform at their best, but that has to be so stressful. Her children are successful and one is a musical virtuoso performing at venues like Carnege Hall. But i wonder the toll this has on them mentally and emotionally. She has her opinions about why some racial groups are at the top and others on the bottom.
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Yup, I heard about Amy Chua and her book about why some racial groups are on top or bottom. I disagree with her beliefs because race doesn’t determine how well you will do in life. It is based on how well that person applies his skill to how he lives his life.
However I do agree that Blacks in this country can do better though
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According to Abagond and the Oxford Dictionary whose owners are most likely a WHITE vested group or person, RACISM is *now*:
The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races: ‘theories of racism’
*****************
Let me be clear. This definition is pure, unadulterated, BS!
Abagond, you probably know by now that I very strongly disagree with this dictionary’s definition. In fact, I find this characterization of what racism is, utterly insulting! Why? Because this interpretation of racism completely OMITS the central components of what RACISM truly is. At its core racism is about violence, mistreatment, oppression, marginalization … on even more than seven levels!
Interesting how Oxford fails to mention any of these (or other) essential DESCRIPTIVE components. Why don’t they? Because if they did, it would completely negate whiteness’ ability to now deem blacks and other People of Color as potential racists.
The Oxford dictionary is just another of countless TOOLS white-supremacy uses to confuse and obfuscate this matter to keep the people stupid, off balance and unable to see and identify what’s obviously in front of them.
You using this definition plays right into the hands of whiteness. I find that puzzling.
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It all boils down to the illusion of white supremacy, that’s my personal definition of racism. These 7 subsets of racism are spot on, all other types are just derivatives of the seven listed.
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You forgot the 8th kind of racism: delusional scapegoating racism. Abagond and his followers are an example of this kind. It rejects facts and evidence as “racist” when it disputes their beliefs. Any disparity is assumed to be the fault of “racism” rather than a result of ones own choices, behavior and abilities. Illegitimacy, crime, poor academic performance, etc aren’t seen as the fault of those engaging in those behaviors but blamed on others. Anyone disagreeing with their delusions is automatically called a “racist” as well. Delusional scapegoating racists typically view whites as too racist while blacks are seen as not racist enough and “needing to wake up.” This type of racist believes whites invented racism” and that blacks “can’t be racist.” If you hear someone talking about “karma” while screaming “whites are going to get theirs!” then you’re probably dealing with a deluded scapegoating racist.
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Da Jokah
I love how you project. It is so enlightening how you provide detailed information to your behaviors. I thoroughly enjoy it.
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@Mary
Thanks for that information. I was not truly aware of who Amy Chua is.
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Were you taking a breather Jokah? Your in fine fettle!
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Oh, by the way Jokah, you fit every one of those definitions. Do you have multiple personalites? ‘The Three Faces of Jokah/Churches!
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@Adeen
I am not sure I understand your meaning. I thought Abagond was using Amy Chua as a colour-blind racist who also believes that race itself is not a determining factor. I am not sure if you disagree with her, agree with her, or have a view that is not exactly hers and not opposite either.
I think Amy Chua probably disagrees with the Race Realists, but probably pretends that Jim Crow and historical racism never existed (or was so many millennia ago that it is irrelevant today) and internalized racism can just be switched off like a light switch. But I suspect that even she has some internalized racism.
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@Matari
There are some kernels in truth in what you say. According to that dictionary definition, then colour-blind racists could not be racist if they don’t believe that races are “inferior or superior to another race or races.” We need another working definition that would be consistent with how he uses it in his posts.
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@ Matari
I put the Oxford definition out there as a starting point. I do not strictly follow it myself.
For example, race realism does not say that ALL Blacks have low intelligence, just that ON AVERAGE they do. They use that point to show that they are NOT racist. I do not buy it. It is a semantic dodge, playing with words.
On the other hand, I think it is a much better definition than limiting racism only to Jim Crow racism, as many Whites do, or just to institutional racism, as many people of colour do. That would leave out colour-blind and internalized racism, which are important too.
The definition of racism that many White Americans seem to use:
The Oxford definition avoids the self-serving idiocy of that kind of thinking.
No doubt the editorial staff of the Oxford dictionary is white, especially at the higher levels. But English itself is largely the creation of whites, with their racism built right in. I have to use English with the accepted meanings of words to get my ideas across and yet somehow not be imprisoned by it.
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[…] Left to right: David Duke (Jim Crow), Charles Murray (race realist), Amy Chua (colour-blind), Barack Obama (Islamophobic), Clarence Thomas (internalized), Antonin Scalia (institutional). Not shown: historical racism." […]
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[…] See on abagond.wordpress.com […]
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What’s the background for labelling Barack Obama an islamophobe? You don’t really say in the text.
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@ Abagond
I agree with Matari on this one. And given the countless posts you have trotted out here on race and racism over many years it shows much confusion.
“…I put the Oxford definition out there as a starting point. I do not strictly follow it myself….
If you are at pains to point out you do not follow this definition then why even use it as a starting point? This simply confuses.
I agree with you I too wouldn’t use it! It sets up a FALSE level playing field from the start. Which as many repeated debates and discussions on this blog have shown. This premise is INCORRECT!
Another thing the Oxford dictionary definition you’ve provided conveniently does is to omit any definition of RACE? Yet it makes explicit reference to these as perfectly assumed known uncontested categories. When clearly they are not!
Yet more confusion….!
This makes the whole 7 kinds of American Racism in 2010s seem quite arbitrary and selective. Arbitrary on the number (7) and selective on the types.
Why isn’t there one on Black Racists for example? This follows on logically from the Oxford definition. To deny its existence makes no sense. Given you also subscribe to this category (unless this has now changed)
Yet gain more confusion!
While I applaud your efforts on what you’re attempting to highlight as a greater awareness around this subject. I know, form previous posts, you can do much better than this!
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If I may make a suggestion, there’s another form of “racism”, and I use the term in this case very lightly:
Reverse racism – the belief, mostly among white that policies like affirmative action and welfare benefit POC (mostly blacks) while oppressing whites. And that (usually) blacks are more racist against white people than the other way around. Trolls are notorious for this as they focus on black-on-white crimes. Despite data that proves that blacks are in way more danger of racism from whites than the reverse, most whites think they are the ones who are victims of racism.
Just a suggestion though. I saw Jokah’s whining and thought of it.
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“Reverse racism – the belief, mostly among white that policies like affirmative action and welfare benefit POC (mostly blacks) while oppressing whites. ”
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Brothawolf,
Why do whites complain incessantly about Affirmative Action exceedindly benefiting black people when research/studies/data shows that white women are the overwhelming beneficiaries of AA? Why is there such a huge disconnect from reality here, in your opinion?
Even though white people (via white women) are getting the lion’s share of this political program’s attempt at leveling the playing field, many whites still have issues that some blacks have received assistance/aid through AA.
Are they playing the Zero Sum game?
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Matari,
Good questions. All I can say is that whiteness has never relied on reality or truth. Whiteness will make people value white skin than life itself. If there is so much as a mention that any program will help blacks, true or not, they freak out.
Perhaps it’s because they believe the hype about working hard will bring automatic success. Maybe it’s because they prefer not to know what they know deep down about the origins of this nation’s wealth. One could say that they believe that black people are genetically lazy, and giving them assistance is bogus, considering they also believe that it takes money from their pockets.
The key words I’ve used are ‘believe’. White people seem to hold on to what they believe about black people as opposed to actually learning about black people, especially from black people. They believed since day one that blacks are inferior to them. The religious among them think that blackness is a curse or that black people were meant to serve them. Whatever it comes down to points to what they believe in. Why do they believe that way? It all comes down to feeling good and comfortable.
I believe that answers the questions. 🙂 lol
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things like this perpetuate the ‘welfare queen’ stereotype, IMO:
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2014/03/13/3399441/ryan-research-lazy-inner-cities/#
(Rep. Paul) “Ryan Defends Comments On Lazy ‘Inner City’ Men”
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You left out the most prevailing racism permeating society today, and the type that actualy greets every one on the media everyday, cultural racism
Its perplexing to me that the political active rhetorics dont deal with culture very well…like on the DORF thread , or the mandates about what is bad about culture, like tap dancing…but political movements have always destroyed culture, from slavery, to Jim Crow, to Nazism, to Communism…religion destroyes it too
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“I believe that answers the questions. 🙂 lol”
*******
Thanks Brothawolf! : ))
“The key words I’ve used are ‘believe’. White people seem to hold on to what they believe about black people…”
It seems to me Brothawolf that you’re implying that WHITENESS is a RELIGION based upon the WORSHIP of certain BELIEFS or IDEAS about black people.
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[…] Left to right: David Duke (Jim Crow), Charles Murray (race realist), Amy Chua (colour-blind), Barack Obama (Islamophobic), Clarence Thomas (internalized), Antonin Scalia (institutional). Not shown: historical racism." […]
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The Amy Chua “Tiger Mom” thing is hilarious because she thinks her daughters success is due to her parenting techniques when it’s really a result of their class privledge.
Like when she bragged that one of them got into Harvard so therefore her Tiger Moming worked! But, if you took 2 seconds to look at her and her husband’s background, iirc, you’ll find that they both have Ivy League undergrad, AND Ivy League grad degrees AND are current tenured Ivy League professors! Their kids are triple legacies! The kid could’ve wiped her behind with the application, then spit on it and then plopped it down on the admission officer’s desk and still gotten in.
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@Kiwi:
Not really amazing per se but par for the course. These two clowns have never met or interacted with Asian crime gangs and other criminals. How about impoverished Asians? What’s their excuse according to your aunt? That’s the thing with the white wash, you become deluded until you get your wake up call!
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“We need another working definition that would be consistent with how he uses it in his posts.”
Jefe, I agree. It would be good if Abagond would come up with a definition that does exactly that. The definition, imo, should include (at the minimum) what racism does and whom it benefits….
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I like how abagond, broke it down in seven deadly sins.
ahhh, i see brothawolf, adeen , kiwi, Herneith, Jefe, Matari, ks, Kwamla, lifelearner and Mary burrel are still in the mix. ^_^
I still see you, keep it up!
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1. Amy Chua: I am pretty sure Amy Chua has a high degree of internalized racism. At least it seems like it. But I made her the poster child for colour-blind racism because she is well known for model minority/black pathology style thinking, right out of the colour-blind playbook.
2. Barack Obama: I am sure he has no HATE in his heart for Muslims. In fact, at an intellectual and emotional level, he is probably LESS Islamophobic than most Americans. He is far more cosmopolitan than most American presidents. But functionally he is as Islamophobic as they come, what with his drones over Pakistan and Yemen that kill indiscriminately, his racial profiling of Arab Americans, and his almost-blind support for Israel, one of the most Islamophobic governments on earth. The fact that he knows better, as shown in his Cairo speech of 2009, makes it all the worse.
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Matari,
Now that you mentioned it, yes.
Also, for the face of reverse racism, I would use Abigail Fisher as my first choice.
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Brothawolf,
Aarrggghhh, Fisher was such a bad plaintiff and her case was so suspect that even this Supreme Court couldn’t use it to finally finish off Affirmative Action and you know they were looking for any reason to do so.
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@Kiwi Lol Excellent point! I too, would love see an interviewer ask about her preferred mate of choice, and the flimsy excuses that are bound to fly outta that woman’s mouth!
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ks,
It was a total waste of time. The Supreme Court could not, no matter how hard, use her case to finish off affirmative action. The only thing she’s a victim of is her own spoiled white privilege.
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P.S. I remember when that particular TIME magazine with those featured Asian students came out, as I was in elementary school myself. I distinctly remembered thinking about how much praise the magazine seemed to be giving them for their smarts, but somehow feeling as though perhaps other POC weren’t on the cover because we didn’t quite have the smarts (though I was a good student, and so were plenty of other POC within my classroom). Now that I am grown, it becomes more clearer to me what I was feeling at time like that, but did not fully have the definition that I was seeking in order to express why I felt that way..
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Clarence Thomas and Anita Hill’s scandal, I remember being so grossed out about that nasty can of coke with pubic hair. I believe to this day that he sexually harassed Anita Hill. And I think a couple of years later, Thomas’s wife had the nerve to ask Hill to apologize.
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In 2010 Clarence Thomas wife had the gall to ask this woman to apologize, that is some nerve. She knows what kind of man her husband is. I believe in my heart of hearts, that this woman knows what Thomas did, but just doesn’t want to admit her husband is gulity. I am glad Anita Hill was able to recover and go on with her life. Back then the media was confused about what sexual harassment was. That is something that should be taught in Women’s studies classes all over the country. And men need to get an understanding about this as well.
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Does Michelle Malkin’s picture need to be next to Amy Chua, aren’t they of the same mindset? She seems white washed to me also.
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..That Fisher chick’s bogus “equality complaint” makes her into a tired, overplayed, walking-talking-cliché that doesn’t even deserve to be known on such a wide-scale for incessant whining and moaning over a school she did not (legally qualify) to get into-as her grades in certain areas were Subpar in the first place! Translation: She didn’t even meet the sufficient score requirement to attend the school, what a joke!
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kiwi
Whites are 65% of the population and 48% of Harvard students. Asians are 5% of the population and 18% of Harvard students. So I doubt there’s an Ivy League’s anti-Asian quota. In fact, poor Asians are 6 times more likely to be admitted as poor whites even with the same grades and test scores.
Also, you seem very bitter about asian women and white men dating/marrying.
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Kiwi,
I have never received the impression that you are bitter about Asian women and white men dating / marrying. Why on earth would DJ want to make an assertion like that, unless he is only trying to stir up sh*1*t.
What I think concerns you is the internalized racism that your Aunts practice to adjust to that arrangement as well as the validation they give to their husband’s racism. I still recall reading that Sports reporter (remarking about Jeremy Lin) saying that he is not racist towards Asians — HE IS MARRIED TO AN ASIAN. Oh, Pleez.
Indeed, if admission to Harvard were based only on GPA scores, then Asians would probably make up 48% of Harvard, not 18% (I thought it was 16%), and would outnumber whites. That is why Harvard feels they must impose racial quotas in their acceptance rates. They feel they cannot afford to offend their white alumni and risk putting so much of their future donations and fund raising in the hands of people who do not have a generational history at Harvard. Also, if white students were a minority, then their future networking would force them to network more with Asian-Americans. That is a power share they do not want to do.
The only thing that would cause that to change is if the Asian-American Alumni to Harvard become the primary fund donors and require the trustees to let in more Asians. That might not happen soon, but they probably could afford to start their own foundation to fund research how the Ivy Leagues systematically enforce racist admission practices.
Publicly funded universities probably do not face this intensity of pressure. They probably benefit from having higher calibre students.
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@Mz. Nikita,
Thanks for sharing that.
I hope that you will spread the word about how insidious the media is when they do that — promoting the model minority stereotype. It serves no purpose except to let white people pat themselves on the back (for being so un-racist and colour blind). It gives credence to black and Latino pathologies, and lets Asian-Americans be fooled into thinking that they can be honorary whites while whites completely erased Asian-American history from their textbooks. And it also splits POC into different competing factions (divide and conquer). God forbid if they ever got together.
Yet Asian-Americans can never be white as long as the perpetual foreigner stereotype holds. Labelled as “foreigner”, yet stripped of their history, what other choice does one have except to attain higher status in the eyes of whites.
They have even split Asian men and Asian women apart – emasculating the men while giving Asian women the hope that they can become white even faster. But, that is possibly another issue.
The model minority stereotype has negative impact on many people, except for maybe whites. We need to condemn it every chance we can.
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@ Jefe
I find it interesting how Whites who get upset about Black affirmative action almost never get upset about quotas against Asian Americans. That means it is not meritocracy that they are defending but White supremacy.
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@ Mary
Michelle Malkin: I did consider making her a poster child, but it was for Clarence Thomas’s spot (whitewashed) or maybe Obama’s (she is a huge Islamophobe). She is better looking than either of them, at least from my male perspective, and therefore more graphically appealing, but she is not as well known.
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@ Kwamla
That is a bit unfair. We all know that Oxford defines race too. Also, as a dictionary, I think everyone understands that these are pretty much folk definitions – what most users of English mean by the word – rather than the sort of precise, analytical definitions a theorist might use.
In my experience, when most people define racism, they narrow it to exclude themselves. Racism is always there, never here. White commenters, for example, say straight-up racist stuff but think I am the racist one, not them. That is why I had to use Oxford – to avoid the same mistake myself and to put a stake in the ground.
It is arbitrary. I had to stop somewhere. That is why I say these are the seven MAIN kinds. That means there are probably others. And, being a blog post, it means this is my opinion and others might disagree. That is to be expected.
As to Black racism, I do not think there is any main kind that is not internalized White racism (listed) or an inversion of White racism, like the stuff Malcolm X believed at one point.
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@Abagond,
Indeed, reserving 75-80% of the seats for whites at the Ivy Leagues (when they make up 64% of the population and less than half of the top candidates based on academic performance) is simply a form of white Affirmative Action. If they are arguing for a meritocracy, then they should be incensed about White Affirmative Action. They are not.
THAT is a post we need for White History month – the history of White Affirmative Action. You obviously have thought a lot about this topic.
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Found an interesting article on the Harvard Law Record that discusses this.
http://hlrecord.org/?p=15323
–> Affirmative Action disproportionately benefits white Males.
The thing is, pre-70s we did not have Affirmative Action, and the system at that time disproportionately benefited white males.
I suppose both systems were designed by white males, so their interests must be held in check.
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I want to add one more type of racism to your list, strategic racism. I learned more about it from the book I’m presently reading: “Dog Whistle Politics: How Coded Racial Appeals Have Reinvented Racism And Wrecks The Middle Class.”
It’s by Ian Haney Lopez. He shows how both parties started using dog whistles to get more white voter support, and he takes you on a historic journey of how racism has evolved in the U.S. and permeates every aspect of our lives. I literally cannot put this book down. It’s especially chilling when speaking about the colorblind racism that exists today.
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Abagond,
This is precisely why I questioned (along with Matari) taking and using what the Oxford dictionary defines as racism. Is this supposed to be some sort of neutral authority?
We already know racism is not neutral it taints everything and everyone who encounters it. From this stand point it doesn’t matter where you start from for a definition. What matters is that you clearly define the boundaries of where you are starting from.
So for example Yes! A white person would typically describe racism to include themselves (white) but include all other POC as well
Realizing this to be inadequate a more informed Black person would typically describe racism to exclude themselves (Black) but include all other (white) and possibly POC too.
Now a neutral person would typically define racism perhaps like the Oxford English dictionary does….But wait a moment there are no neutral people are there? Do you see the point I making here?
You have not avoided the confusion over who is racist. You have unwittingly added to it instead!
If we could define racism from a neutral perspective – like prejudice – then there would be nothing particular to any group of people -Black or white – to describe. it would be essentially the same thing. Like witnessing acts of sexism against a Chinese, Indian, European or African woman.
On another point…
I do find it strange that your posts on the various aspects of racism never seem to evolve beyond the level of Black people as victims continually misunderstood or mistreated. Or white people continually oblivious to their own shortcomings on racism.
This focuses discussion and debate or polarizes it in the same direction. It becomes circular. This is what attracts TROLLS!….This is what I mean by not evolving. I say this as commentator to your blog now for at least 5 years.
It promotes the impression that racism (white supremacy) will always be around. Do you honestly believe that? I certainly don’t!
Just my own opinion of course…!
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Hey abagond, I dont know if you will read this, but as a young black male, I wanted to ask you if could give some advice, for young black people and black people general. I have to say, that I live in a white area and don’t really see many black people here. Still, I experience and notice many of the things you wrote about and can only agree with you in many topics. Could you give some advice on how to act, or how to answer some semi-racists question?
Maybe some tips you know, in interaction with white people, police, authorities, .. school..?
I ask because you seem like you could give some good advice, it’s a pity you only write about racism, but never say what “TODO”, to change it or what black people could do..to go up like asians or jews.What I try to say is, that we aren’t helpless, even when the white world is trying to keep us at the bottom.
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kiwi, Jefe, abagond, brothawolf, et al
Your claims of whites receiving a net benefit from affirmative action and asians being limited by quotas in admissions are unfounded. The most recent and extensive study to cover elite university admissions, shows that eliminating affirmative action would result in the following admission changes.
Black -4.7
Hispanic -2.1
Asian +2.2
White +4.6
As shown, affirmative action privileges blacks and hispanics while discriminating against asians and whites. Blacks are the largest beneficiaries of this racial privilege while whites are the primary victims. Contrary to brothawolf’s claim that white women are the largest recipients of affirmative action, gender affirmative action merely offsets some of the discrimination faced by white women by transferring the burden to white men.
Asian students admitted do, however, have higher test scores. But as shown, this is not the result of explicit racial preferences for white students or quotas against asians since whites are the primary victims of affirmative action. Rather this is a result of admissions that have disparate impact such as alumni admissions and recruited athletes. Eliminating admissions criteria with disparate impact (or “race neutral admissions”) would result in the following admission changes.
Whites -6.5%
Blacks -5.5%
Hispanics -3.2%
Asians +15.1%
White’s, along with blacks and hispanics, clearly benefit from athletic recruiting and being the children of alumni. But there’s a very important reason for this. It’s in the universities interest to extend this preference. College sports may not have anything to do with academics but it’s a major draw for alumni. So sports, along with legacy admissions, keeps alumni engaged long after they graduate. Don’t discount the importance of alumni networking and the benefits it brings to an alma mater. Without the support of alumni these elite schools wouldn’t remain elite very long. They’d be replaced by schools who continued to give these preferences.
Race neutral admissions would result in a student body that is 53.4% white, 39% asian, 4.7% hispanic and 2.8% black. There is no scenario that results in an increase of both Asians and Blacks, Black and asian interests are at fundamentally opposed when it comes to admissions. There’s no scenario in which you can stick it to whites and not stick it to each other.
Source: No Longer Separate, Not Yet Equal, by Espanshade & Radford. Table 9.1, page 344.
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Every single parent of multiracial Asian children I have ever met feels compelled not to mark their kids as Asian – white, black, Hispanic, anything else — to help get them accepted into universities. They feel that marking Asian, even part Asian, is a NON acceptance letter waiting to happen.
Any of these so-called studies that are pulled out of the woodwork seem to have no swaying power over these parents. I suspect for each of those studies that try to demonstrate that whites don’t benefit from affirmative action (and Asians don’t suffer), there are a dozen that are saying otherwise.
Anyhow, many of those other factors that DJ mentions are the result of prior generations (and current generations, esp. in areas like sports) of racist legacy – already penalized even before they submit their application and penalized again for their academic achievements.
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Da Jokah,
I don’t have access to the book, but it seems like you think large numbers of whites are denied admission to universities due to Affirmative Action (AA). But part of an article from Columbia University counters that myth:
…This policy, well-intentioned and even important as it is, materially diminishes the likelihood of a white student being admitted, and is therefore unfair. This notion that enormous numbers of whites are being denied admission because of the preferential treatment of under-represented minorities is simply false. In fact, admissions policies such as Michigan’s do not meaningfully affect a white student’s chances of admission. The numbers of minority applicants are extremely small compared to the numbers of white students who apply to universities across the country. It is not mathematically possible that the small numbers of minority students who apply and are admitted are displacing a significant number of white students.
http://www.columbia.edu/content/seven-myths-about-affirmative-action-universities.html
Even if whites are denied entrance to the universities and colleges, that doesn’t automatically mean that it was a result of AA anymore than saying that minorities got there DUE to AA. It could mean that those students who are white are not qualified.
Not all blacks who apply get in to the colleges and universities of their choice. Not too many of them do in fact.
Lastly, whites denied entrance to the schools of their choice is does not oppress white society. Thinking that is simply ridiculous. Even if there are white students who don’t get in to one school, they try another. That’s why it’s a good idea to apply to several schools instead of one.
Is this your resentment showing from you not getting into the school you wanted to go to, Jokah? If so, please get over it.
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Poor Da Jokah. He got spanked as usual and he went running for any source from conservative media that he could get his hands on and parrot here. In this case he’s reciting the conservative spin on the Espanshade & Radford study which was sort of an unofficial follow up to Bowen and Bok’s “The Shape of The River.”
Of course such conservative spin mandates that whites, in particular white men, are always the victims of AA so they force fit anything into that meme despite the voluminous data that shows otherwise like white women being the biggest beneficiaries of AA not black people. As an aside it’s really odd how crazy some folks get about AA when the reality is that most blacks don’t benefit from it and most whites aren’t affected by it. Even lunatics like George Zimmerman’s exuberantly racist friend Frank Taffe talk about it like it has some effect on his life when the AA he really needs is Alcoholic Anonymous not Affirmative Action.
Anyway, what people like our “race realist” pal here hope is that nobody looks at the actual numbers of students and simply plays his lame percentage game. The reality is that the actual number of black students entering class at these elite schools is so low that to pretend that they all benefited from AA and they all knocked out “better qualified” candidates is absurd. Dubious zero sum games are key to their propaganda which is why our long suffering Da Jokah can still whine after all these years about some black women who supposedly took HIS spot at one of these schools.
Notice how for propaganda purposes he focuses on a one to one PERCENTAGE ratio of a supposed black benefit and white negative impact while ignoring the actual number of students? For example, in Fall 2013 Columbia University Law School admitted 352 students. 10% were black (35) and approx. 50% were white (176). Apply his “race neutral” filter -4.7% for blacks and + 4.6% for whites and check the results! The black number barely changes from 35 to 33 (-2) while the white number increases from 176 to 184 (+8).
Hmmmmm, what happened to that one to one ratio!? You mean to tell me that nearly all of the black students (94%) got in on strict race neutral “merit” and had no appreciable negative effect on the white number? Shock! Gasp!!! See my “Home Alone” face>>>>>> :oooo) !!!!! When dealing with “race realists” folks would be wise to treat them like 3rd rate magicians working the cheap casinos in Vegas. Ignore the “percentage” hand waving distractions and focus on the actuals.
You would think that after the Fisher case embarrassment they would shut up but noooooo. They put forth a case where there were more whites who scored lower than the complaining white plaintiff, and were admitted, than the ENTIRE incoming black class for that year. Let that sink in and then try to imagine the chutzpah required to claim that you were discriminated against because of AA.
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Brothawolf,
“In fact, admissions policies such as Michigan’s do not meaningfully affect a white student’s chances of admission. The numbers of minority applicants are extremely small compared to the numbers of white students who apply to universities across the country. It is not mathematically possible that the small numbers of minority students who apply and are admitted are displacing a significant number of white students.”
Boom. Yep, yep and yep. In the example I mentioned above, the incoming black class was only 10% of the entire incoming class and only 20% of the incoming white class. Even if you take the ridiculous proposition that all of them benefited from AA, that still leaves 80% of the incoming white class who weren’t affected at all.
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From what I’ve noticed, many whites seem to feel that it is unfair if even a minute percentage of them are negatively affected by Affirmative Action (after all, this country WAS founded by whites and for the well-being of whites), and this being the case, the needs of whites are to to be met first, leaving any crumbs that remain for non-whites to fight over (a best case scenario of this belief system would obviously mean that not only the supposedly ‘underachieving’ Blacks and Hispanics would have to fall in line behind ALL whites, but that the supposedly ‘overachieving’ East Asians would have to as well).
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jefe “Every single parent of multiracial Asian children I have ever met feels compelled not to mark their kids as Asian – white, black, Hispanic, anything else — to help get them accepted into universities. “
They can “feel” whatever they like. The Espanshade study shows that marking “white” is not going to help an Asian get accepted. But narking black or hispanic will because they are both receive an explicit racial advantage. . And if they are working class then marking “white” will reduce their chance of acceptance by over 85% what it would have been if they had marked “Asian” and over 90% of what it would have been if they had marked “black”.
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As for brothawolf and ks, I find it entertaining how they try to justify racial discrimination against whites after having devoted so much time on this blog denouncing mythical discrimination against blacks. So which is it — do you oppose racial discrimination or not?
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The white American belief in black inferiority, though related to race realism in a parent/child way, has a better than century older pedigree. Originally a justification for cleaving white indentures from blacks, it took on a life of its own, spawning the scientific racism mid-wived by Jefferson. So strong, in fact, was the pull of this myth that you could count the number of white abolitionists on one hand who didn’t buy into it…and still have some piggies left over. (I call this phenomenon PETA-antiracism: just because you don’t want the lab chimps to suffer doesn’t mean that you actually believe that they’re equal.) Late 19th century progressives believed in black inferiority—mental, moral, even physical (because of worse health outcomes)—no less than reactionaries. And as America became a world power, this destructive concept was promulgated internationally; new 20th century immigrants were encouraged to accept this lie as if it were a rider to the Pledge of Allegiance. With a provenance older than the country, it will outlive the other forms of racism, even white supremacy. While only the fringe right will voice it, this cancer lives on in the soul of the country, and minds and hidden hearts of white America—and regrettably, in much of non-white America as well.
(P.S.: Had a revered and beloved H.S. teacher in the 60s. A civil rights advocate, he loved to recount how he attended the March on Washington a couple of years prior: “I marched with Dr. King.” Turns out even he was no less immune to the inferiority myth than other whites. A real eye-opener, my first encounter with PETA-antiracism, and a thoroughly disillusioning black rite of passage.
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Paul Ryan is of the same mindset as Charles Murray of “The Bell Curve” after his comments this past week on black men and their lack and drive here employment is concerned. Not taking into account why black men are out of work, and making racist generalizations about why the people that he is judging is in the unfortunate predicament. Paul Ryan’s statements about inner city black men and the culture of people who live there mirrors this post thread.
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Paul Ryan statements about black men in the inner city and their lack of not wanting to work.
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@Richard_lll: Eloquent post. I guess if i could summarize your post, those that talk the talk don’t necessarily walk the walk. Anyway I enjoyed your post.
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LOL @ Da Jokah. I guess he didn’t like the real math so now he’s trying to spin in another direction. Well I guess one day he will get over the fact that the sister beat him out fair and square and stop wallowing in a cultural pathology of victimization by trying to blame AA for his own failure.
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I think “Benevolent Racial Paternalism” should be added. That is the practice of Whites seeking to do good for minorities by “taking care of them” because minorities are unable to take care of themselves. This can be separated from real forms of help because the ‘Acting Parent’ ends up making significant decisions for the ‘Perceived Child’s’ own good, rather than asking how they can best help the other person.
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Also, I’d add Magic Negro thinking.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magical_Negro
The belief that a person’s Blackness lends them some kind of special, earthy, non-Western powers that can be relied upon to solve problems. This is related to “Noble Savage” beliefs regarding Native Americans, and similar assumptions about “Inscrutable Oriental” wisdom.
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To celebrate white history month and the 7 forms of racism, I wonder into what category I fall into? Maybe a combination of color blind, and race realism. I certainly have the islamophobe thing going, but I don’t equate that with racism – as you know, the Balkans and Turkey are loaded with Caucasian Islamists, as well as a multitude of European converts, that while I share a common phenotype with, I would prefer to see them far away from me and mine. BTW – Sikh’s aren’t muslim, everyone knows that.
I don’t think white is a superior human, but I think white American is superior to black American culture. I don’t care to make inter-racial relationships illegal, but I made a point of not dating women who were previously involved with black guys. My teenage daughter can have black girlfriends, as many are on her sports teams, but dating a black boy is not acceptable for my family and she knows it -(nor are Latin, or Arabic / Persian / Hindu – those cultures don’t treat women well).
Maybe when I really put some thought into it, the islamophobe and the racism thing are more closely related for me than I first thought. Come to think of it, I became islamophobic based on the actions of muslims, typically their propensity for killing Westerners in general and Americans in particular. And, low and behold, my antipathy to black people has arisen recently with the awareness of black predation upon white citizens.
So, in honor of white history month, here’s to several white people that either are history, or have lasting historical touchstones in their lives, thanks to living in proximity to black americans in March 2014.
White man dead for cell phone that black teenage male wanted. http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2023040983_greenwoodsuspectxml.html
http://dailycaller.com/2014/03/13/horror-pregnant-woman-gang-raped-in-vicious-wisconsin-home-invasion/#ixzz2vryTPWpq
White man killed by 2 black women after cashing a check.
http://www.wkrg.com/story/24961074/375-magnum-killed-robert-perry-in-coden
White guy beat up in another “knock-out” game occurrence.
http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local/new_york&id=9457153&vid=9457603
woman (assumed white) is beaten by 4 black guys on the street
http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?id=9456265
So raise a cheer to the fallen white man, sacrificed on the altar of multi-culturalism. While the educated blacks of America congregate on blogs like this and decry the racism that occurred generations ago and blame that for their lack of (what exactly do you lack?), uneducated blacks descend like locusts and devour civilizations built by better men, and they prey upon the taxpayers that sustain them. the picture of American black is one of barbarity – maybe that was the cause of the Jim Crow and segregation laws in the first place. Do you think history does repeat itself?
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@ Riverside R
You’re quite a barrel of laughs there.
The only relevant thing in your post was the comment about Sikhs not being Muslim. Good pick.
Sikhs are NOT Muslims – they have their own religion which was formed in the Punjab hundreds of years ago. The only similarity with Islam is that Sikhism is monotheistic.
A lot of Americans share the misconception that Sikhs are Muslim. It led one white racist to murder six Sikhs in their temple: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wisconsin_Sikh_temple_shooting)
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ks
I like anecdotes and zingers as much as the next guy. But “LOL” and personal attacks aren’t much of an argument. I take it as simply your poor emotional self-control. If you can’t make a reasoned argument based on the facts then don’t waste my time.
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Da Jokah,
Are you still whining? Putting on a facade of intellectual pretension won’t help your arguments here and is a pretty obvious deflection tactic. The reality is that you trotted out the usual anti-AA propaganda and got your tail handed to you and now you’re flailing away.
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Look at that. Now da jokah reveals why he goes on the cry baby whine tactics at times. All because of his “poor emotional self-control.” Next time I should take one of his posts and use it as a reminder of how he needs to deal with his “poor emotional self-control” before coming to the boards.
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The race realists are interesting. In essence they say that there is a real difference between the races that makes people with color inferior. That is an assertion that really puts one on the back foot. I know that the mindset of most people facing such a charge is to try to prove that they’re equal and not to even consider that the script may have been flipped.
For example, it is really interesting to me that despite all that has occurred between blacks and whites black people, in general, still hope for unity. Yet whites, in general, still act unjustly. IMO, the elephant in the room is that we think differently. I’ve assumed in the past that there’s no fundamental difference and operated according to that theory but it doesn’t comport with history and the present. So I had it reject it and explore the other possibility. And to my mind, that other possibility makes a lot more sense. Many people have grappled with this leading to ‘two-cradle’ theories (Chiek Anta Diop), the ‘Iceman Inheritance’ (Michael Bradley), the ‘Cress theory’ by Frances Welsing and many others. (Haven’t read them but know the gist) One observation is that many of the world’s people extended hospitality (or at least tolerance) to whites when they first came to their shores but the whites turned around later and killed them off or brutalized them. WHY? Because we’re all the same? It doesn’t add up! Yet our way of thinking impedes us from readily coming to that conclusion but their way of thinking drives them to that conclusion from the moment they see us. Whites have long INSISTED that their pallor matters. I’ve started to believe them even if it’s not in the way they present it.
I do not believe every single person who identifies as white is a monster. There have always been some who did the right thing or even helped out. After all, it’s obvious what the right thing to do for someone else is most of the time. It’s whatever you would rather have done to you. But a second empathetic check that goes beyond knowledge but goes to the depth of identification with or feeling for other people seems to be less functional in them. IMO, this is why they can also display a certain calculated and seemingly unemotional brutality. Not to say that other people aren’t capable of doing bad things (esp. after centuries of white domination) but it manifests differently. Who just loads people in trains towards a ‘final solution’ to their existence and work out mathematically how little you have to feed them to extract maximum work for the smallest cost before they starve to death? When whites were happily feeding black babies to alligators as bait black women were often the ones caring for and nourishing white babies. (Who entrusts the care of their precious children to a subhuman being anyway?) I conclude that there is a difference in the psyche. Does that make me a race realist? Labels aren’t important to me but I would accept it if it fits.
So does that mean I hate everyone who identifies as white? No (distrust yes). I do hate the white system of oppression that is a cancer on the planet and its people. I would have no problem with the end of those who love it. But to the extent that whites who hate injustice exist they’re fine for going against the grain. White supremacy has been a complete disaster for the earth. Solution? A liberated mind is helpful in that search but from the perspective of what is generally known by people, there is no obvious solution. Because the people who supposedly have the highest technology and knowledge are the ones who are using it to threaten all life. So if that supposition isn’t wrong, I guess we’re all screwed. LOL
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ks — “The reality is that you trotted out the usual anti-AA propaganda and got your tail handed to you and now you’re flailing away.”
I provided the evidence to support my position and disprove jefe and kiwi’s. So how am I ‘flailing away’?
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Riverside_Rob
To celebrate white history month and the 7 forms of racism, I wonder into what category I fall into? Maybe a combination of color blind, and race realism. I certainly have the islamophobe thing going, but I don’t equate that with racism – as you know, the Balkans and Turkey are loaded with Caucasian Islamists
Linda says,
Rob, you know dam well which category you belong in– categories #1 Jim Crow racism and #2 Race Realism have your name written all over it– so stop pretending like you don’t know which shoe fits!
and by they way, since you are aware that the term “Caucasian” does not mean “white” correct? Because many of the people who are in this category are not “white” — you Americans use it in an incorrect way and
based on the how this of this fake term came into existence (measuring skulls and using facial features), Somalis and the Maasai of Kenya are also “Caucasian” and they most definitely aren’t “white” —
Europeans do not call themselves “Caucasian” and the real “Caucasians” from the Caucasus region are not considered “white” in European countries like Russia…
so you racist need to stop hanging on to 100 year old fake terminology that has no real basis in reality (since you spoke about people going back into the past)
http://www.worldpolicy.org/blog/2012/01/13/racism-russia-and-caucasus
“The first time I heard a Russian call a person from the Caucasus a “black a’s” I was dumbfounded. Looking at my pale-skinned Chechen friends, I would be inclined to laugh at the term if it wasn’t such an obvious symptom of the xenophobia in Russian society.”
http://www.csmonitor.com/2001/0427/p7s1.html/(page)/2
“Russians “despise all Caucasians,” Mr. Makhmudov says. “You have to behave in a certain way – keep your eyes down. Never contradict a Russian. If you talk back to a policeman, you’ll be beaten for sure.”
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@ Da Jokah,
Really? I don’t see it that way at all. Jefe and Kiwi have more than adequately addressed your opinion. You’re flailing because you’re continually looking for new avenues of attack/spin when the last one fails. Time to move on.
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@miss mary b i must have had about 15 dudes ask me for work in the hood in the last year; not one has said he’s happy being at home broke
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i wish i had it together and could do more
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@ v8driver: I cosign that. Making generalizations is not right. Thanks for responding.
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For those interested, Espanshade & Radford used data from 1997 to come to their conclusions. Personally I would not call that recent but hey. I have read there were other descrepensies with the study, but I may save that for another time.
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Correction discrepancies
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@kiwi
I give biff a mini amount of credit because he was an a** and never pretended to be otherwise. Rob has been pretending to be about equality etc since he has been here. Unfortunately for him most saw through his bs. So I am confused on why he is acting as if his confession will be some shock to us.
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Perhaps alzheimer’s or dementia is setting in for him.
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BTW, on the subject of biodiversity, the likely way to produce a large number of totally pale people is by some process of inbreeding whether deliberately or as a consequence of their being separated from those of color for other reasons. Those who say they’re white are aware that if everyone just mixed freely then the phenotypes they’ve associated with whiteness would cease to manifest together. Obama and his family is a demonstration. (One theory is that this is the source of their discomfort and hatred of darker people). So in a sense colorlessness is a sort of artificial manifestation whose continued existence necessitates separateness. On the other hand, fertility rates seem to be declining among many populations that identify as white. So they seem almost destined to disappear as a distinct group even without anything catastrophic taking place. In trying to understand them I sometimes wonder if that’s part of the reason the whites in power seem bent on destruction. Darker people do not have a fear that they’ll cease to exist by totally natural reproductive means. (In fact, in some cases they wouldn’t mind…marrying lighter etc.) Do black people generally think “I want a black child”? By the definitions on hand, it is IMPOSSIBLE for a black person to have anything but a black child regardless of hue. There is a sense of natural permanence that’s taken for granted. So this is part of what I mean by the difference in psyche. There are certain things that just aren’t on our mental radar that whites may be thinking more seriously about.
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ks — Jefe and Kiwi have more than adequately addressed your opinion.
It wasn’t my opinion. It was data from a peer reviewed study of admissions to highly selective universities performed by two Princeton sociologists. And they certainly did not address the data from that study.
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sharina
By all means, find a study based on more recent data. I’ll wait…
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@Da Jokah
Read what I said very slowly as it seems that you are allowing your “poor emotional self-control” to put you in a situation of putting your foot in your mouth.
I said: I have read there were other discrepancies with the study, but I may save that for another time.
Where in that did I say I was going to look for a more recent study or present one? I guess I will wait for you to gather your thoughts but then again you have not so far so I will not be holding my breath. 🙂
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sharina
You don’t have any new information to add? You should have just said so.
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Da Jokah
Just because I am not jumping to get information at your beck and call does not mean I have nothing to add. It just means you can wait and more than likely will.
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As for brothawolf and ks, I find it entertaining how they try to justify racial discrimination against whites after having devoted so much time on this blog denouncing mythical discrimination against blacks. So which is it — do you oppose racial discrimination or not?
LOL Wait a minute, how do I justify racial discrimination against whites?
I’m actually laughing because white people are pretty much on top of the world and have the most privileges. So tell me how white people are being discriminated against? Most of the world’s power are in the hands of white men. How on Earth are white people discriminated against?
Honestly, Jokah, maybe the problem’s not white people being treated unfairly. Maybe it’s you who felt he was treated unfairly.
Riverside_Rob
Really? Why are you so obsessed with posting links to black crime? What are you trying to prove? That you’re scared of black people. Done. We get it.
You also prove that you care more about the “color of crime” as opposed to the moral failings in and around the incident. As long as it’s a black criminal and white victim, that’s all that gets you off, anything to reject the reality of racism against blacks. The shear complexity of the matter doesn’t mean anything as long as the victim’s white and the suspect’s black. Sadly, you don’t want to see how morally screwed up that thinking truly is.
The crime links you post here and there do not prove black racism, at least no where dear as devastating as white racism. Only someone familiar with hate sites like Chimpout.com would think such incidents mean the end of the white race when even those few you’ve posted are a microscopic number of violent crimes. As a side note, the number of black-on-white incidents is way, way smaller than you think it is. It doesn’t happen in such proportions that would threaten the existence of the white race. So, you may as well calm down and stop being so scared of nothing.
But if you want to be foolish enough and post more links, go ahead and make an a** out of yourself as usual. You know you and Jokah are fighting a losing battle here. By posting links to articles and express your hatred of blacks, you don’t show your intelligence or bravery, but your cowardice, ignorance and moral depravity.
Good luck with that.
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Sikhs are not Muslims according to scholars or the Sikhs themselves, but according to many American Islamophobes they are because they wear turbans. Likewise, most Arab Americans are not Muslims, but again, they are in the eyes of many Islamophobes. That is why I put Muslims in quotes in the post:
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Maybe you should rephrase
“Open, sometimes violent, fear and hatred of “Muslims”, including actual Muslims and people mistaken as Muslim, particularly Arabs and Sikhs.”
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RR said: “My teenage daughter can have black girlfriends, as many are on her sports teams, but dating a black boy is not acceptable for my family and she knows it -(nor are Latin, or Arabic / Persian / Hindu – those cultures don’t treat women well).”
way to treat a young woman!
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Haha! Nows what possible logical reason can you have for that?
Are you really this stupid? lol!
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I don’t think white is a superior human, but I think white American is superior to black American culture. I don’t care to make inter-racial relationships illegal, but I made a point of not dating women who were previously involved with black guys. My teenage daughter can have black girlfriends, as many are on her sports teams, but dating a black boy is not acceptable for my family and she knows it.
Rob never ceases to astound me. He shows his disdain for blacks and is proud of it. Man, being white must be more important than being human.
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i have met a lot of white dudes that wouldn’t date a white girl who had previously went out with non-white guys; when miss yvonne was in her cups she told me once ‘ah you polluted me’ was the phrase
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There is only one type of racism, i.e. the Global System of Racism (White Supremacy). Everything else mentioned above is a symptom of the disease.
Racism = Power + Prejudice
“Racism [White Supremacy] is the local and global power system structured and maintained by persons who classify themselves as white, whether consciously or subconsciously determined; this system consists of patterns of perception, logic, symbol formation, thought, speech, action and emotional response, as conducted simultaneously in all areas of people activity (economics, education, entertainment, labor, law, politics, religion, sex and war).
When the cause is understood, chances that the disease can be treated effectively and cured, while that which is not understood in depth rarely can be treated or cured. Similarly, there are serious problems posed for the vast majority of humankind by the specific dynamic of Western (white supremacy) culture.
— Dr. Frances Cress Welsing, Psychiatrist
“Racism is the scientific practice of unjust subjugation, misuse, and/or abuse of persons classified at “non-white” by persons classified as “white” on the basis of color or non-color, and/or on the basis of factors associated with color or non-color in all areas of people activity (Economics, Education, Entertainment, Labor, Law, Politics, Religion, Sex and/or War).
— Neely Fuller, Jr., Victim of Racism
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You forgot Rush Limbaugh, Sarah Pallin, Glen Beck, and all the kerchief head negros at Fox News. I guess you only had so much space and couldn’t add them all. But I get the gist of the thread post. It’s a good thread post.
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Rob is a trip. Trying to hide his fear and racism by pretending that he is concerned about the womens rights. I hope the paramedics are on standby with the shock paddles ready because they are going to need them to revive him when he finds out that his daughter has probably already been involved with a black or other dude on his “no fly” list.
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Rob’s daughter is probably already dating a black young man.
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Rob is like a 2014 Archie Bunker. This is just hilarious. But it’s sad all at the same time, Rob’s fear and ignorance is what is the problem in this society.
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@ v8driver
I have heard White guys say that (online) before but I always wonder, if there is some gorgeous woman who they are really like, and as they get to know her it comes out that she once dated a Black guy, does he REALLY just drop her cold? “I’m sorry honey, I really like you, but I just can’t date a woman who has ever dated a Black guy!” Do you really see that happening?
Because it really sounds like something a 12-year-old boy might say after discovering that the girl he’s been crushing on all year isn’t into comic books.
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Rob’s daughter might be under the football bleachers kissing a black football player. LOL!
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Why is it everyday these racist White trolls come on here and make such sick remarks?
@Mary Burrell
That is very typical of them and the way that they act and think. Deep down, they don’t want their children being around Black people period.
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“There is no doubt that whites have a caveman need to kill, perhaps this is due to history but maybe it is genetic.
Whites made the hydrogen bomb, this could end all life on earth.
Have I missed anything?”
*************
Yes, you’ve missed this — whites have not only made the hydrogen bomb, they are the only group that have actually used it. They did not have to ….
** Despite of all the violence/killing whites are responsible for, whites like to point at blacks as being inherently violent/criminal. Whiteness (or some form of genetic/spiritual imbalance) makes it adherents delusional and schizophrenic.**
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@mary burrell
“Rob’s daughter might be under the football bleachers kissing a black football player. LOL!”—With this generation?! Girl stop. LOL!!
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@ Sharina: LOL! He is such a bonehead. I always knew he was a racist, but this just confirms my suspicions.
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@ Riverside_Rob
“I don’t care to make inter-racial relationships illegal, but I made a point of not dating women who were previously involved with black guys. My teenage daughter can have black girlfriends, as many are on her sports teams, but dating a black boy is not acceptable for my family and she knows it -(nor are Latin, or Arabic / Persian / Hindu – those cultures don’t treat women well).”
You do realize what happens when you tell your daughter who she can and can’t date right? You’re in for a rude awakening.
Also, your links to select examples of Black on White crime doesn’t summarize all Black people. We are not a monolithic people. That would be like me assuming all White people act like cast of Honey Boo Boo… I could easily post select links of White on Black crime.. Do you want to claim these people? Or are they just violent individuals?
http://thestir.cafemom.com/in_the_news/168178/white_man_kills_unarmed_black
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/16/jonathan-ferrell-shot_n_3937175.html
http://gawker.com/unarmed-man-shot-by-deputies-inside-his-own-car-outside-949237195
Let’s not also forget how some White people are towards each other…
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/03/13/florida-man-accused-shooting-movie-goer-for-texting-sent-text-moments-before/
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2014/03/10/adam-lanza-sandy-hook-shooting-new-yorker-interview/6250539/
http://tampa.cbslocal.com/2013/07/17/woman-throws-baby-at-police-while-being-arrested/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/01/steve-smith-execution_n_3191783.html
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/02/16/pa-woman-admits-killing-man-met-on-craigslist-claims-killed-others/
“While the educated blacks of America congregate on blogs like this and decry the racism that occurred generations ago and blame that for their lack of (what exactly do you lack?), uneducated blacks descend like locusts and devour civilizations built by better men, and they prey upon the taxpayers that sustain them. the picture of American black is one of barbarity – maybe that was the cause of the Jim Crow and segregation laws in the first place. Do you think history does repeat itself?”
Well now that you’ve summarized the standard White supremacist talking points, do some real research against each of your above generalizations and let us know when you find the truth.
Oh and Happy White History month!
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@king one time, in rehab, i met this guy he was a CO (prison guard) he refused to touch a black person (i don’t know how he worked that out, maybe he wore gloves only?), and yes one guy who worked for me was adamant about it — the things he said to me about me dating black women was unreal
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Rob:
I don’t care to make inter-racial relationships illegal, but I made a point of not dating women who were previously involved with black guys. My teenage daughter can have black girlfriends, as many are on her sports teams, but dating a black boy is not acceptable for my family and she knows it -(nor are Latin, or Arabic / Persian / Hindu – those cultures don’t treat women well).
The more people push against their children being involved in IRR, the more these kids become curious and want to find out why.
Also, IME, the only men who do not want to date WW who were in IRR are the ones who feel insecure about themselves – that they dont measure up to the stereotypical myths that there are about BM. People will tell you all sorts of other reasons but this is often at the root of it.
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@ bygodsloveand grace: I wish folks like Riverside Rob would get a clue about making generalizations. It’s just not very smart.
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@mary
It’s become so common for bigots to define us as if we’re in one big Hip Hop video. Very unfortunate indeed. Especially considering there’s enough research out there that counters these generalizations.
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@ King: You what they say, you can’t fix stupid.
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Brotha wolf, black on white crime pretty much loses the moral high ground you and your friends here try to claim. Your victimhood is overshadowed by some of your fellow blacks feral nature. I focus the on the danger of being near blacks. I feel the same way about criminal whites – the dangerous type are easier to spot (in my opinion) than dangerous blacks and I avoid them all.
Grace, my links don’t summarize black people. My links highlight white people effected by black people, some black people. This site when apesh^t when Trayvon Martin met his end – he was a criminal thug who got what was coming to him. The difference between those Trayvon defenders an me is that I won’t defend someone who is wrong just because they’re white. I know there is white trash in this world, and I say good riddance to it. That being said, go ahead and make a list of white on black crime, I’ll read links.
Matari and George – wrong again you guys. No one has used a Hydrogen bomb in anger. You’re confused with an Atom bomb. details do count, and you two are continually hazy on the details.
Omni and Grace – my daughter won’t date black for 2 simple reasons that she sees and knows to be true. 1 – once you go black, you can’t go back, many white males won’t date women who have dated (maybe prefer) black men. They’re not insecure, in my experience, but do not want to be involved that type of woman. Those white women often take on some social attributes of the black female – speech patterns, clothing choices, child raising practices. These things matter and many would prefer not bring that culture into their families.
2nd reason, having a relationship with a black man gives a woman a pretty high chance of being a single mother. We (my family) don’t talk about which race is superior, I don’t think one is. But I do think one culture is superior – my girl will date within that culture – (and still kiss a couple of frogs before she finds the right guy).
Happy white history month!
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King, you make my point. I don’t agree with you so you want to take a skull saw to me?
You all are right about not being able to fix stupid, but you sure can feed and house it for several generations, until it can’t exist on it’s own.
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Grace is you problem with generalizations in particular, or just those that pertain to blacks? Do you not read a blog that is for the most part, generalizations of white people? Are generalizations a sign of a weak mind – there is some disagreement.
To Generalize is to be an idiot
– William Blake
An idea is always a generalization, and generalization is a property of thinking. To generalize means to think.
—Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hagel
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Why do you agree to such stereotyping of Blacks though? Like posting links to Black crime and making sure your daughter doesn’t date Black men. I understand that you, as a White man is scared of losing his privileges and economic, social and political dominance over minorities and others, but please don’t put your fears on POC.
It is not our fault that you are scared of change and equality for all.
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@ King & mary
I’ll add that you can’t fix woeful ignorance if the person doesn’t want to learn. (le sigh)..
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bygodsloveandgrace
That is true, but sometimes (way too often for me) you go on and on hoping they will snap out of that ignorance.
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@ Sharina,
Agree. We unfortunately can’t reach everyone. The information we share either penetrates or it doesn’t. All we can do is share our knowledge and hope that it sinks in for those interested in enrichment.
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Here is something I noticed with riverside_rob. He will say something of the ignorant nature to show him as the racist he is and then when he realizes that it does not make him look like the superior being he pretends to be then he comes back and explains to make it seem more acceptable. I noticed this often when faced with a person of color who says something more noble than he. His immediately response is to agree and go on about his idea of nobility. It in turn is nothing more than an act and like king says; you can debunk or disprove him on things and he returns like it never happened.
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@ King: Comment deleted for using the wrong form of a person’s name.
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@ King @ Kiwi: Comments deleted for calling for violence against another commenter.
If you do it again, you will be banned. This is your warning.
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Brotha wolf, black on white crime pretty much loses the moral high ground you and your friends here try to claim. Your victimhood is overshadowed by some of your fellow blacks feral nature. I focus the on the danger of being near blacks. I feel the same way about criminal whites – the dangerous type are easier to spot (in my opinion) than dangerous blacks and I avoid them all.
This is amusing, Rob.
Seriously, why address your fear and disdain of black people here when you continued coming out looking stupid and racist and yet, act so proud for being that way. You really think your racism would fly here? You honestly believe we would agree with your white supremacist bigotry? You really need some help, bro. Being afraid of people, especially certain people because of their skin, is not something to be proud of.
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Sorry, I meant Riverside_Rob.
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Even though it’s been advised, I think it’s best that we leave Riverside_Rob alone. We continue to feed him, but he clearly spits out all we give him. He’s nothing more than a troll, and he will end up making us say things that will end up banning us so he will have the last laugh. I already see the warnings, and I think that’s what we seriously need to do, in my opinion.
So Riverside_Rob, continue your racist trolling if it makes you feel superior, but I will not waste anymore time talking to you when you clearly love to guilt trip others. And that is a promise from now on.
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Sorry, My bad Abagond, if only in jest.
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Brothawolf
I have learned to simply not take any of them seriously. In the case of rob I would count that as his true colors because his post have always had racial coding. Just take it as he finally manned up and said what he was trying to hide.
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@ Riverside_Rob
“Grace, my links don’t summarize black people. My links highlight white people effected by black people, some black people.
All you did was highlight that crime happens and some of it is interracial; the majority of crime is not. Some of my links conversely showed how some Black people are harmed by some Whites. How many times must our unarmed men and women be killed by a someone with an imagined fear of Black people?
“This site when apesh^t when Trayvon Martin met his end – he was a criminal thug who got what was coming to him. The difference between those Trayvon defenders an me is that I won’t defend someone who is wrong just because they’re white.”
Trayvon wasn’t a perfect teen, but he certainly wasn’t a criminal. If you only viewed him through the right wing/supremacist media lens, then all you saw was a distorted view. There’s enough online content about Trayvon that cuts through the inferences, provides context and shows how multi-faceted he was; including his dreams of aviation. Trayvon supporters weren’t defending him for the heck of it, or solely because he was Black (hence the multi-racial marches). Many picked up on GZ’s story discrepancies & the inept police work.
“I know there is white trash in this world, and I say good riddance to it. That being said, go ahead and make a list of white on black crime, I’ll read links.”
I provided you with White on Black crime links in my initial post.
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Riverside Rob,
“The difference between those Trayvon defenders an me is that I won’t defend someone who is wrong just because they’re white.”
Sure you do. Look in the mirror. Your problem is that you are too blinded by your fear, ignorance and racism to realize you are wrong. You really think cloaking your delusion in bad “womens rights” or “culture” or whatever-is-handy arguments is good cover? Well…it’s not working as your racism is pretty transparent.
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@bygodsloveandgrace
And he just provided you a great example of what I was talking about. Notice in his original post he is only talking about black crime etc., but in response to you he states “I know there is white trash in this world, and I say good riddance to it. ” It is this false need to show you he is about equality when in fact he is not. He just puts on the face of such and always later after one proves to be the better and in this case you proved to be the better so he has to “show” he is good too.
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bygodsloveandgrace,
Now you know in racist speak that a black minor who was minding his business and had never been arrested or charged with a crime was a “criminal thug” while the white adult who started the mess and had/has an arrest and criminal record, and generally was and is a nere-do-well petty grifter, was the “fine upstanding citizen”.
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@ Sharina,
“Here is something I noticed with riverside_rob. He will say something of the ignorant nature to show him as the racist he is and then when he realizes that it does not make him look like the superior being he pretends to be then he comes back and explains to make it seem more acceptable. I noticed this often when faced with a person of color who says something more noble than he. His immediately response is to agree and go on about his idea of nobility. It in turn is nothing more than an act and like king says; you can debunk or disprove him on things and he returns like it never happened.”
I don’t think RR will change, not from what I’ve observed so far.
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@ ks
“Now you know in racist speak that a black minor who was minding his business and had never been arrested or charged with a crime was a “criminal thug” while the white adult who started the mess and had/has an arrest and criminal record, and generally was and is a nere-do-well petty grifter, was the ‘fine upstanding citizen’.”
Exactly!
As we’ve also seen, GZ continues to be a “fine upstanding citizen” who’s had both his ex wife and gf call the cops on him for unruly behavior. He doesn’t have anger issues at all..
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@bygodsloveandgrace
“I don’t think RR will change, not from what I’ve observed so far.”—He won’t. When he first came to this blog he would always claim he was here to understand blacks so we can work together or some kumbaya bs. The problem was he would say ignorant things and when corrected he would do white woman’s tears. Proof of his dislike of blacks escalated from there simply because his mind was already made up and he was just here to be here. He was in a sour mood so I guess he needed to make sure all of us were. Unfortunately for him I have been having quite a pleasant year and it will take much more than a racist online rant from him to put me in a bad mood.
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@Riverside Rob
”Grace is you problem with generalizations in particular, or just those that pertain to blacks? Do you not read a blog that is for the most part, generalizations of white people? Are generalizations a sign of a weak mind – there is some disagreement”
This blog doesn’t make generalizations about White people! This blog was made for Black and other minorities to discuss racism and how it affects our lives. And Whites who care to discuss the negative effects of racism are also allowed to comment. If you feel this blog makes generalizations about White people, why don’t you join Stormfront and talk to your ”peers” there? It is a perfect site for those who fear Black people and fear change.
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@ Sharina,
“And he just provided you a great example of what I was talking about. Notice in his original post he is only talking about black crime etc., but in response to you he states “I know there is white trash in this world, and I say good riddance to it. ” It is this false need to show you he is about equality when in fact he is not. He just puts on the face of such and always later after one proves to be the better and in this case you proved to be the better so he has to “show” he is good too.”
I caught that. If RR advocated equality he would have talked about crime in general; not just Black on White. But as we know, his post came from a place of ill-intent to begin with..
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Sharina,
Good point in your comment before your last one about RR’s “equality” tactic.
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R-Rob,
What crime did Trayvon commit again? because I don’t remember reading anything on his arrest records…. Oh yeah, never mind… Trayvon was never arrested for anything because he did not commit any crimes and had NO criminal record.
Unlike fat boy George, who was arrested for fighting a police officer, while he wasn’t busy stalking his girlfriend even though he had a restraining order against him
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/03/27/10894561-zimmerman-accused-of-domestic-violence-fighting-with-a-police-officer?lite
R_Rob, you’re such a racist POS, because only a piece of sh’t would be happy that a child was killed by an Adult and Trayvon was a child, the same way your daughter is still a child…people like you is what is wrong with the USA.
I’m glad you teach your children to not deal with black people… the black Americans doesn’t need your tainted blood circulating through the community.
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@ Riverside Rob
“Grace is you problem with generalizations in particular, or just those that pertain to blacks? Do you not read a blog that is for the most part, generalizations of white people? Are generalizations a sign of a weak mind – there is some disagreement.
To Generalize is to be an idiot
– William Blake
An idea is always a generalization, and generalization is a property of thinking. To generalize means to think.
—Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hagel”
I don’t care for sweeping generalizations about anyone. That’s why I tend to say SOME xyz people if I make comments because I strive to not lump everyone into one box.
You make generalizations about Black people as if they are absolute truths. That’s what I have a problem with. There are plenty of folks on here who have called you out on your misperceptions.
BTW–show me some examples of commenters who summarized ALL Whites as committing the most crimes; living off of the government; not contributing anything to society; not create any thriving civilizations and are seen as barbaric.
Review the quote you shared from William Blake and ponder it for a moment.
“Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.”
-Martin Luther King, Jr.
Cheers.
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@ Sharina
“He won’t. When he first came to this blog he would always claim he was here to understand blacks so we can work together or some kumbaya bs. The problem was he would say ignorant things and when corrected he would do white woman’s tears. Proof of his dislike of blacks escalated from there simply because his mind was already made up and he was just here to be here. He was in a sour mood so I guess he needed to make sure all of us were. Unfortunately for him I have been having quite a pleasant year and it will take much more than a racist online rant from him to put me in a bad mood.”
He’s definitely not here to hold meaningful conversations. While his mindset won’t change, our responses are really for others who may think like him but are more amenable to seeing things differently. Like you, I won’t allow him to ruin my mood. I’m having too much fun enjoying life and enjoying the topics on this site!
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@bygodsloveandgrace
*high five
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George Ryder “Can someone tell me why every serial murderer, school killer, and mass murderer has in most cases been white?”
If you look at the data, you’ll see most serial killers are black and have been for over 20 years. Blacks are also overrepresented among mass shooters while whites are underrepresented.
“There is no doubt that whites have a caveman need to kill, perhaps this is due to history but maybe it is genetic.”
Everyone has a “caveman need to kill” because hunting/gathering is part of the human DNA. But whites express it in outdoor activities such as camping, hiking, fishing, hunting. Blacks, however, express it through violence towards others. According to the data, over half the murders in the US are committed by blacks.
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@ Kiwi
Yes, and that without a statement of threat, force, attack, or coercion. Technically, I realized that I could have argued that point. But I would not have it said that favoritism was in play, so I thought rather to accept the warning at face value. Let Riverside_Rob see that we all play by the same rules and the same protections. Which is far different then what happens on White Supremacist websites and blogs.
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@ Da Jokah
I am indeed curious on where this data resides? There are a total of 220 serial killers that I am aware of and only 57 are black. This number does not include the unidentified serial killers such as zodiac killer etc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_serial_killers_in_the_United_States
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And abagond you can delete my above comment if you feel it pulls it too far off topic in here.
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I have learned to simply not take any of them seriously. In the case of rob I would count that as his true colors because his post have always had racial coding. Just take it as he finally manned up and said what he was trying to hide.
Well, it’s not only about whether or not to take the likes of Riverside_Rob and Da Jokah seriously. We all know they can’t be taken seriously lol. But trolls are known to push buttons nonetheless. I admit that the demented duo has pushed mine many times. Sometimes I just wanted to curse them out. But I chill, remembering that I will not disrespect another’s blog. I remind myself not to sink to their level of racist nonsense.
At least that’s how I see it.
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Da Jokah,
I have to ask you this question, have you been to, planned on or at least, thought about attending the White Man March they had last Saturday?
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http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/03/16/worldwide-white-man-march-draws-10-people-and-diversity-white-genocide-signs/
“Worldwide ‘White Man March’ draws 10 people and ‘Diversity = White Genocide’ signs”
(in Birmingham, AL)
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v8driver,
I’m still laughing at the whole thing.
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http://fox6now.com/2014/03/13/maintenance-worker-who-shot-teens-has-concealed-carry-permit/
what-another one?
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Sharina, I did start off here trying to find some common ground. what I found was you, and many like you who don’t want debate, you only want to say what you think, and poo poo any other opinion. It was while I’ve been here, reading the works of some highly educated people that I discovered there really isn’t any common ground. You have your perceptions and I have mine. You’re always right, and your fan club supports you 100%, as you support them. I get it that this place is for you guys, and you’ve reinforced my suspicion that segregation is the best idea for us both.
I come by to check out the discussions now, mostly it’s entreating, but every now and then I feel the need to interfere with your echo chamber. Reality doesn’t find its way in here very much.
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Hi Linda, Trayvon was beating a guy’s head against the side walk. that is why is was killed, and found not-guilty by reason of self defense. The news story out of Milwaukee story I posted just above is especially for you. two dead teenagers – one of them a mother of 2, shot while beating a guy with a baseball bat. A third perpetrator was arrested and charged with battery.
Does no one teach their kids about consequences anymore? Have a great time spinning that.
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Riverside_Rob
I know I said I wouldn’t feed your issues anymore, but have you attended, planned on or thought about going to the White Man’s March?
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Riverside_Rob
Your comment is about as full of sh*t as a stop up cow. All you did was try to make every person you interacted with a stereotype. Even when shown those individuals were not, you still continued to paint them as such. That is not finding common ground that is showing how much of a racist idiot you truly are and I don’t have patience for dolts such as yourself. I don’t have ignorant white people in my real life so why would I want to find common ground with one online?
“what I found was you, and many like you who don’t want debate, you only want to say what you think, and poo poo any other opinion.”—I can pick out several posts where you claim you wanted to “exchange ideas” and last I checked exchanging ideas and debating are two different things. SO please do not puff up a lie to make yourself look like the victim of me because you are not. You are just a delusional old man who thought that his opinions stood on their own merit and confirmation bias was going to carry out a “debate” and when it failed the smell test you run and call foul. Oh boo hooo they won’t listen to me call them stereotypes etc.
“You have your perceptions and I have mine. You’re always right, and your fan club supports you 100%, as you support them.” Interesting how you want to chunk out the perception card, but are always putting down brothawolf for mentioning his perceptions. I am not impressed. I am not always right and I know when to apologize for being wrong, but if you “perceive” me to be 100% correct then I won’t turn down the complement. 🙂
“mostly it’s entreating, but every now and then I feel the need to interfere with your echo chamber. Reality doesn’t find its way in here very much.”—-uhhuh your brain is an echo chamber. Hallow and bouncing nothing but your own petty delusions.
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What American white culture ? Much of popular white American culture is built on a black American foundation, with a dinner table absolutly enriched by native American foods…
But RRs antiinterracial sex views fit right in with what others have said on here, who are we trying to fool?
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correction compliment* on comment in moderation.
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B. R.
“But RRs antiinterracial sex views fit right in with what others have said on here, who are we trying to fool?”—-I don’t expect much riverside_rob or people like him sooo.
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@Brothawolf
Why would he? He does not care about any of those white victims he posts. He does not care about any real issues he “claims” white people face. What he cares about is using it to “prove” what he already believes.
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sharina “I am indeed curious on where this data resides? There are a total of 220 serial killers that I am aware of and only 57 are black.”
The most complete list of serial killers in the US is the Serial Killer Information Center at Radford University. They have over 3,300 serial killers in their database. Blacks have always been over represented among serial killers and whites under represented with respect to their percentage of the population. Black serial killers have outnumbered white ones since 1990 and blacks have made up a majority since 2000.
http://maamodt.asp.radford.edu/Serial%20Killer%20Information%20Center/Serial%20Killer%20Statistics.pdf#page=3
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@ Da Jokah
Thank you for the stats on serial killers.
You stated “most serial killers are black.” Percentage wise yes, but as to plain numbers no. 5200 whites are serial killers as opposed to the 1841 black. When people say more white men are serial kills they are usually talking about how many not what percentage compared to population. Anyway it is what it is. I will let you know when i need to be added to that list.
Interesting women seem to be high in the department of serial killing. Creepy
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^I wonder how “serial killer” is being defined for the purposes of the Radford University database? The definition that most of us are thinking of describes a statistically rare form of seemingly random murders over an extended period of time.
However, technically a drug war soldier who has killed several rival gang members could be considered a “serial killer.” What were the parameters and definitions used in the study to define the term?
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Da Jokah
LOL I believe those statistics are screwed and biased against Black people. And most serial killers I hear of are middle aged White men and Sharina’s number of 5200 White serial killers prove our point.
Why are you on here if you hate Black people so much?
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”Hi Linda, Trayvon was beating a guy’s head against the side walk. that is why is was killed, and found not-guilty by reason of self defense. The news story out of Milwaukee story I posted just above is especially for you. two dead teenagers – one of them a mother of 2, shot while beating a guy with a baseball bat. A third perpetrator was arrested and charged with battery.
Does no one teach their kids about consequences anymore? Have a great time spinning that”
Riverside Rob
So it was okay for Zimmerman to kill a 17 year old Black boy because he was a ”thug” in your eyes? It is sad that people like you justify the Trayvon Martin murder because you don’t believe that Black lives matter. People like you make me sick.
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“Riverside Rob,
Hi Linda, Trayvon was beating a guy’s head against the side walk. that is why is was killed, and found not-guilty by reason of self defense.”
Linda says,
and NO ONE was there to see and prove that George was getting his head beat against the sidewalk…. that story is nothing but LIES told by George to save his sorry a’s…
you weren’t there, not one of the witnesses “saw” George getting his head “repeatedly” getting hit against the sidewalk.. so you can stop singing Zimmerma’ns LIES as if they are “Truth” because they is not…
find ONE news article with a photo or a witness who states they actually SAW Zimmerman’s head repeatedly getting “slammed into the concrete”….
He was found “not guilty” because the white women on the Jury were “confused” by the jury instructions and were a bunch of POS just like you… not because Zimmerman and his attorney’s “proved” anything….
Keep finding your stories, I hope they keep you warm at night as you watch the census that’s shows “white people” will become minorities in America…
you have said NOTHING that proves you are right about Travon except that you were, are, and will continue to be nothing but a RACIST a’shole !
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Taking on one racist, White troll at a time, They make me sick. They are the number one reason why I don’t really comment on this site as much as I used to. I don’t see why they come on Black sites to derail the conversations we have and cause trouble. They make me so mad, it is unreal.
I don’t know why Abagond allows these trolls on here
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and R_Rob,
please don’t insult the medical profession by bringing up Zimmerman’s scratches on the back of his head… all that shows is that he fell at some point, could have lost his balance because it was RAINING
no one was there to witness him getting his “head slammed” into concrete… all LIES told by a psychopath who was losing a fight with a kid that HE (Zimmerman) started
we’ve discussed this before and if he truly had his head bashed, the paramedics would have taken him to the hospital whether he wanted to go or not…
people with real head injuries who hit there head only 1 TIME real hard get hematomas (aka bleeds) or worse TBI’s and if they are lucky enough to get up and walk away, the signs of head injury themselves fairly quick.
Michael Shumacher was wearing a helmut, hit his head on a rock, walked away, and showed signs of a head injury within 12 hours.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formulaone/michael-schumacher/10640839/Michael-Schumacher-skiing-crash-did-helmet-camera-cause-head-injuries.html
(typically when people hit their head hard against a hard object, they’re knocked the f’ck out!! )
“A man was punched and knocked out when he hit his head on a curb outside 109 Greenwich St. in Manhattan on Friday, July 12, 2013. According to witnesses, the man appeared drunk and was verbally assaulting a black man who was eating nearby.”
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/man-decks-n-word-drunk-racial-slur-source-article-1.1397978
(Zimmerman’s head would have to be made of Kevlar if he was getting his head “bashed” into concrete multiple times for him to have been awake and walked away)
head injuries are treated very seriously in the medical world…didn’t you say you were a former “radiologist”… I guess you never worked at a hospital or you would know this simple fact…
just because you are a racist who got a “hard on” when you heard that a black kid got killed, doesn’t mean that Zimmerman’s LIES are the truth.
did you “wet yourself with glee” when Jordan Davis got shot, too?
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correction: “the signs of head injuries show themselves fairly quick”
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@ King,
You’re on the right track. What they are doing is conflating anybody accussed of killing more than one person (e.g. spree killers, drug gangs, etc) and with serial killers. Even then as Sharina pointed out, they don’t get anywhere near a black majority so they fall back on % of population games.
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B.R.,
I know you consider yourself a “gatekeeper” of sorts when it comes to discussions of ir relationships but, there is a big difference between what Riverside Rob is saying and what some others here have said about ir relationships.
RR is not against particular ir relationships in general. He’s only against them for his daughter because like most racists of his ilk, he’s also a misogynist. “Massa” and the boys never had a problem sampling different flavors but if “Miss Anne” or the girls ever got a taste they were considered spoiled or ruined. The whole putting white women on a pedastal thing is as much of a way for white men to control their sexuality as it is to promote a standard of beauty.
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@ ks
I thought as much.
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@King
I agree with Ks. By legal definition it is the killing of a number of people over a long period of time. In most cases I have found that people who do a mass killing have been lumped into it.
I have not finished entirely looking over da jokah’s source, though in reseach I have found that the individual who compiled the information defines a serial killer as “serial killers were defined as individuals who killed at least two people, representing two or more individual events, with a cooling off period between the events.” http://maamodt.asp.radford.edu/Serial%20Killer%20Information%20Center/Project%20Description.htm
I am more interested in a list of names of said serial killers and so far this list nor da jokah’s source provide that. 😦
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Oh and the source used reflects US and International numbers.
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@ Sharina
Well, given that definition is includes just about any professional killer and many gang soldiers. But that is not what most people are referring to when they use the term “serial killer.” That is also not what the press is referring to when they use the term. It may be relevant elsewhere, on a separate academic level, but it’s a fairly useless study to bring up in a debate when most people are referring to a totally different definition of the term.
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Race realists are the ones who make a big deal out of crime statistics and IQ scores. Why? Because they believe that racism is wrong – ask anyone of them, they all deny they are racist. But they also believe that, “It is not racist if it is true.” To them racism is about prejudice, false beliefs. Therefore crime statistics and IQ scores gives them moral cover for what they were going to believe anyway. That they are more interested in covering prejudice rather than discovering the objective truth becomes clear when they cherry pick facts and twist numbers this way and that to preserve their beliefs.
Classic examples of facts twisted to preserve racist beliefs:
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@Sharina,
Excellent research work on the serial killer stats. I always find it interesting when some use percentages instead of raw #’s, which tends to tell a better story. Additionally, I’m curious about a report’s/study’s methodologies to understand the representative sample used to begin with. The methods are typically skewed to drive a desired result. Some who just post reports as fact rely on us to not thoroughly review the content. Bravo for your efforts.
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Rob:
I dont believe you know any PoC well enough to be talking literally here – you dont appear to be ‘open’ enough to properly get to know anyone outside your own race. So, your child is basing her opinion on what you reveal – not what she knows.
I still go back to what I said earlier – when parents tell their kids not to do something, they become curious and want to find out ‘why’. I am sure a lot of the WW that end up with bm had parents just like you.
Also, I have seen a fair few mixed families where the ww have had children with a PoC but end up having other children with wm and, wm with bw who have black children too.
Meaning? You are having discussions on here with quite a few black women yet, you cling on to the most negative of this to make a point. Its becoming hard to take you seriously.
I think that you feel you are an upstanding person – many would disagree, just based on what you write here . It is b0llocs that you think this sh1te makes you any less bad than the people you look down on.
I dont think you REALLY know about black culture except what you have seen read or seen in some sitcom. I doubt if you have honestly been that up close and personal to be able to form a view. We all wish for happiness for our kids and for that reason, I hope your child does find someone of the same race/culture and that she does not get curious and date outside her own race but totally for the sake of the PoC than for yours.
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Ks, I agree there is an extra special creepiness about the white racists, or race realists , and their concepts like you described, heck, they were the first to run this anti interracial crud…its just amazing how its spread everywhere now…but not to everyone…many black activists back in the civil rights movement , were there to defend their right to be able to date or marry who they want…and then got barred from entering meetings for being with white women or men…
yes, I find RRs take about white women who have been with black men, to be very revealing…and sad..most women I have been with , had been with black men…it just never crossed my mind or ever phased me in any way
Im not a gatekeeper at all, I just speak up about it…people would like people in interracial ralationships to cower in the corner when this type of bias comes up…from any direction…
for sure, prejudice against black men from dating white women, is one face of white racism…also against Asian men from dating white women…when it comes from the other direction,it is bigoted bias..both are ugly
I sure get your differance, but, let me tell you from a person on the receiving end…you have to use the same defence…at least the same one works for me…
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@ Linda,
“please don’t insult the medical profession by bringing up Zimmerman’s scratches on the back of his head… all that shows is that he fell at some point, could have lost his balance because it was RAINING
no one was there to witness him getting his “head slammed” into concrete… all LIES told by a psychopath who was losing a fight with a kid that HE (Zimmerman) started
we’ve discussed this before and if he truly had his head bashed, the paramedics would have taken him to the hospital whether he wanted to go or not…
people with real head injuries who hit there head only 1 TIME real hard get hematomas (aka bleeds) or worse TBI’s and if they are lucky enough to get up and walk away, the signs of head injury themselves fairly quick.
Michael Shumacher was wearing a helmut, hit his head on a rock, walked away, and showed signs of a head injury within 12 hours.”
Amen! If GZ was so near death, why wasn’t he immediately taken to the hospital? How did he manage to get his gun and kill an unarmed teen if he was near unconsciousness?
Let’s not forget this wonderful police surveillance video taken the night Trayvon was killed.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-case-exclusive-surveillance-video-george-zimmerman/story?id=16022897
George certainly looks like he had all his full faculties 37 mins later. It boiled down to GZ’s word, which apparently changed 4 times in the police report vs. a deceased teen who was not there to defend himself in court.
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You just cant underestimate cultureal racism in this whole picture…imagine if white people really respected what the black American contribution to their culture really was, how absolutly valuable it is and vibrant and one of the essential things that makes America what it is culturaly…the white flight would never have happened..
white people would have welcomed black families to their neighborhoods because of the cultural diversity it would have meant (beleive me, raised in an integrated neighborhood, that is exactly what it means, Chicago great avant guard tenor sax player , Fred Anderson, who had a day named after him in Chicago, lived kiddy corner from my house, my younger brothers slept over at his sons house, and i would meet and play with Fred later on..besides many other rich experiances that makes me thankful I was raised in an integrated neighborhood)..it would have been an honor..if they really valued the black American contribution to culture
Same with how they felt about black men with “their women”…that is so culturaly ingrained , meant to go with all these stereotypes they promoted during slavery, the minstral shows, the depictions of how they thought and wanted black people to act…this is all cultural
If the true respect was given to black men and women for their cultural contribution to American culture, they would be welcomed in any family , of course with the normal charactor study of what a normal father mother want for their daughter or son, which is usualy ineficiant and ignored also, but, it wouldnt play out in this racist way
this whole cultural condemnation, I still reel at MaryBurrell talking about a preacher saying to the black audience, that black church music is too emotional…its very profound and a very deep face of white racism
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I’m sorry but the minute someone starts tossing the term “black culture” around, they sound like an idiot to me, someone from Anguilla, isn’t someone from Brazil, Nigeria, Panama, Somalia, Jamaica or Cuba. Not only are there people in the U.S from all of the aforementioned countries(and then some), there is also the fact that American black cultures vary, so stop talking out of your @ss. If you’re going to be a racist, at least have the balls to own it.
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LOL This is really quicksand. All Riverside_Rob and Da Jokah show is that:
A. They think white people are better than black people.
B. They think white people are now the oppressed ones.
C. They are scared as hell of black people. lol
D. They are not interested in “exchange of ideas”. They just want to tell us what to think and agree.
E. They don’t know how to debate, not that they want to.
Bottom line: White people as whole has NEVER been right about black people, who they are, how they are, how they act, etc. Rob seems to rely on news reports and trash TV to influence his racism while Jokah reads the teaching of the likes of Jared Taylor, Michael Savage, Charles Murray and Steve Sailer. None of which dives into the humanity and complexity of those of African descent. Period.
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^^ Truth
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In the end, and they may sound sick and crazy, but both Riverside_Rob and Da Jokah actually WANT white people to be oppressed by blacks, especially Rob who goes out of his way to list as many black-on-white crime links as he possibly can. The problem is the only people oppressing white people are WHITE PEOPLE. Yet, these two expect the likes of the Koch Brothers, the GOP and Fox News to rescue them when all they’re doing is fooling and using them. As history shows, rich and powerful white people play poor white people for fools over and over again.
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And that is the truth and nothing but.
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Abagond
These bits should not be in italics : “I dont believe you know any PoC well enough to be talking literally here – you dont appear to be ‘open’ enough to properly get to know anyone outside your own race. So, your child is basing her opinion on what you reveal – not what she knows.
I still go back to what I said earlier – when parents tell their kids not to do something, they become curious and want to find out ‘why’. I am sure a lot of the WW that end up with bm had parents just like you.
Also, I have seen a fair few mixed families where the ww have had children with a PoC but end up having other children with wm and, wm with bw who have black children too”.
one day, I will put up a post without any errors!
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@ Omnipresent
This is especially true if there is no good reason for it. Kids will do a lot of things that their parents will say if it makes sense to them, but sooner or later most kids of this generation can see why their parents are full of it, when it comes to their racist warnings.
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Never expected that a black individual could utter the term “Islamophobia”. Had Abagond ever lived in an Arab country he would never ever take Islam as a race. How could you forget the horrible slave trade of the Arabs? How could you be ignorant of the ongoing black genocide in Africa by the Arabs and thier imperialistic ideology, Islam? Just yesterday 100 Nigerian Christians slaughtered by Arab agents. How could you ignore the horrendeous crime which is today committed against black Africans in all Arab and Muslim countries? As an African it pains me when “African”- Americans attempt to defend the most inhumane creatures that are the Arabs.
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Well i think it’s sad that RR will be creating another generation of racist bigots if his daughter believes everything he tells her about non white people, Children learn from their parents whether it’s good or evil.
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sharina “Percentage wise yes, but as to plain numbers no.
Serial killers in the US are mostly black both in percentages as well as raw numbers and have been for over 20 years.
“When people say more white men are serial kills they are usually talking about how many not what percentage compared to population. “
No they’re not. When you say there are more white male serial killers you’re implying that white men are predisposed to be serial killers. When the percentages show that it’s actually black men who are predisposed to be serial killers. That’s why racist negros want to avoid percentages.
“5200 whites are serial killers as opposed to the 1841 black.”
Where are you getting your numbers from?
>>
abagond “Race realists are the ones who make a big deal out of crime statistics and IQ scores. Why?”
That’s odd coming from someone who’s devoted years of his life to a blog digging up obscure historical incidents and statistical disparities in order to to smear whites.
But I’ll answer your “Why?” If you falsely accuse whites of discrimination then the only reasonable defense is to tell the real reasons for those disparities. If you don’t want to hear the reasons then don’t make the false claims.
But they also believe that, “It is not racist if it is true.”
Not necessarily. Some of the things you say are true but you spin them to incite racial hatred.
“To them racism is about prejudice, false beliefs.”
To you “racism” is a racial insult used to smear whites.
“Therefore crime statistics and IQ scores gives them moral cover for what they were going to believe anyway.”
Cover for what? The higher numbers of blacks in prison and poor academic performance? You say it’s “racism”. The evidence shows it’s not. Don’t make false claims and people will stop debunking them.
“That they are more interested in covering prejudice rather than discovering the objective truth becomes clear when they cherry pick facts and twist numbers this way and that to preserve their beliefs.
You’re deluded.
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sharina “Percentage wise yes, but as to plain numbers no.
Serial killers in the US are mostly black both in percentages as well as raw numbers and have been for over 20 years.
“When people say more white men are serial kills they are usually talking about how many not what percentage compared to population. “
No they’re not. When you say there are more white male serial killers you’re implying that white men are predisposed to be serial killers. When the percentages show that it’s actually black men who are predisposed to be serial killers. That’s why racist negros want to avoid percentages.
“5200 whites are serial killers as opposed to the 1841 black.”
Where are you getting your numbers from?
>>
abagond “Race realists are the ones who make a big deal out of crime statistics and IQ scores. Why?”
That’s odd coming from someone who’s devoted years of his life to a blog digging up obscure historical incidents and statistical disparities in order to to smear whites.
But I’ll answer your “Why?” If you falsely accuse whites of discrimination then the only reasonable defense is to tell the real reasons for those disparities. If you don’t want to hear the reasons then don’t make the false claims.
But they also believe that, “It is not racist if it is true.”
Not necessarily. Some of the things you say are true but you spin them to incite racial hatred.
“To them racism is about prejudice, false beliefs.”
To you “racism” is a racial insult used to smear whites.
“Therefore crime statistics and IQ scores gives them moral cover for what they were going to believe anyway.”
Cover for what? The higher numbers of blacks in prison and poor academic performance? You say it’s “racism”. The evidence shows it’s not. Don’t make false claims and people will stop debunking them.
“That they are more interested in covering prejudice rather than discovering the objective truth becomes clear when they cherry pick facts and twist numbers this way and that to preserve their beliefs.
You’re deluded.
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@Da Jokah
“No they’re not. When you say there are more white male serial killers you’re implying that white men are predisposed to be serial killers.”—Are they or is this just another clue to what you are projecting? In most cases people are actually looking at what number is bigger and it really is as simple as that. Now you may have a few that will take it a step further as to say white men are predispositioned to do x but in general they are not usually thinking that far ahead.
“Where are you getting your numbers from?”—Why YOUR source of course. If you were kind enough to provide it then I was intrigued enough to look over it. Perhaps you should have before presenting it as I am getting the feeling you had no real idea what was in it before you posted it or either did not care as long as it was enough to prove your point. In fact based on the data you provided it does not show the raw numbers to provide you with adequate enough proof to say that serial killers in the US are mostly blacks (and I am only speaking in raw numbers).
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There’s a documentary coming soon that examines why people are so afraid of black men. It particularly focuses on the Mandingo and Brute stereotypes and how they are damaging to black men.
http://blogs.indiewire.com/shadowandact/now-documentary-afraid-of-the-dark-examines-why-is-everyone-afraid-of-black-men#.UyeIDF0zDg4.twitter
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In my humble opinion, mere numbers don’t tell you all you need to know about a group of people, especially if some people take any satisfying number without going in depth as to how those numbers were calculated, let alone examine or question first hand if they are authentic or not.
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Brothawolf
Thanks for providing that as this should be interesting to see.
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@Brothawolf
I agree. I don’t have a problem with stats I have a problem with how people use them. You can usually pinpoint there purpose of pulling them out by how shocked they become when you find something they did not know or think was in them. This was the case when I debated someone a while back on them. They had no idea what was in the and they spent days stumbling over themselves trying to back track and make those number work to their advantage. It was funny because I am not some stats wiz and I won’t pretend to be but I am pretty darn good and smelling out bs.
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sharina Why YOUR source of course. If you were kind enough to provide it then I was intrigued enough to look over it.”
Now I see where the numbers come from. You misquoted the number for victims as the number for killers.
“Perhaps you should have before presenting it as I am getting the feeling you had no real idea what was in it before you posted it or either did not care as long as it was enough to prove your point.”
Perhaps you should understand what you’re reading before making a claim? As what you accused me of is precisely what you were doing!
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I don’t think people (in America) are so afraid of black men. A justification has to be erected when mistreating others, this justification process is especially true of domestic policies of whole societies. The dominant group don’t come out and say, “we just want to marginalize and criminalize certain people, Tough!” They have to justify it. Even animals like Hitler justified domestic policy against Jews.
So, I haven’t clicked Brothawolf’s link yet (and I may not) but this idea of examining why people are afraid of black males sounds like accepting a false premise and then going into an intellectual edifice that sounds legit but is maybe not legit at all.
I think without question the Police and other comparable bodies do try to promote a black male fear thing but they ARE the ones in the business of promoting this idea. I was the victim (on a vacation) of a racist fabrication myself. Even though the accusation against me was false I had this intuition that the whole thing could still spiral against me. The more false the situation the greater need to exacerbate a false threat.
There’s enormous racism in the U.S., that racism needs to be justified with b.s. like “fear of black males.” The fear of black males sounds like a comparable version of “white women’s tears” to me. Some of what I say here comes from my own opinion and also the very unpleasant experience that came on me, through absolutely no fault of my own. I was not even wearing clothes that might draw negative attention. Although I’m very fond of America, I know it’s got a very dark side and I got a direct taste of an aspect of that dark side one day.
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@ Da Jokah
Aw look at that. My mistake.
“Perhaps you should understand what you’re reading before making a claim? As what you accused me of is precisely what you were doing!”—-I remember saying you could be doing one of two things, so it really boils down to which one I was actually doing doesn’t it? And the kicker in all this is that it only proves your point percentage wise. It still fails to prove your point raw numbers wise seeing as it does not provide raw numbers at all. So while it did not provide me with leverage for my raw numbers claim, it still did not provide you with any either. In the end you made a claim that you still did not prove in one retrospect. 🙂
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sharina
Let me make sure I understand what you’re saying. The article from the Radford database lists the total number of serial killers in the US and the percentages that are white and black. But you think it’s invalid because it didn’t give the raw number? Wtf?
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legion “A justification has to be erected when mistreating others, this justification process is especially true of domestic policies of whole societies. “
That’s the whole purpose behind this site and abagond’s followers. They’re trying to fabricate justification for their racial bigotry. Blacks commit interracial crimes against whites at about 50X the reverse and brothawolf’s response is to blame the victims for noticing.
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@ Da Jokah
How dare you call ME a bigot!
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Da Jokah
Nope. I never once said it was invalid and I am confused on how you drew that conclusion.
What I am saying and frankly said is you made a claim that was not supported by your source.
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Ps @da jokah
You do realize that you are a follower right?
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@ Jokah
You obviously are pursuing some personal mission against Abagond. You go about it in a very strange way and a racist way at times. You are wasting your time, you have alienated everyone on the forum. Also, my comment is about the very real U.S. racism against blacks to the point of fabricating black crime – it happened to me.
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sharina
Having it both ways? Or just having the last word?
>>
legion “You obviously are pursuing some personal mission against Abagond.”
Not at all. Just calling a spade a spade.
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Tariku, I take note of your comment…comments that do occaisionaly come to this blog from people frommthe African continent , who feel similar to your sentiments…(i dont know if you are actualy from Africa, but, these type comments do come in here from people living in various countries in Africa)
and, I ackowledge that these comments do come in
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@da jokah
“Having it both ways? Or just having the last word?”—what are you talking about? Looks more like you are running for the last word as all was said and done and you have nothing.
As to having it both ways (as I will presume what you are talking about) nope that is sadly only you. A person with half a brain could firgure out what type of information I was looking for. Not only from my first comment to you but others that followed. I basicly spelled it out. Your problem was that you knew the percentage was high and in your favor and was pushing that. All the while saying raw numbers were high (what I was actually looking for) and not having proof of it.
As I said before. It is what it is.
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@ Tariku
If it is WRONG for Arabs to dehumanize blacks, then how can it be RIGHT for blacks to dehumanize Arabs? You are setting up the very double standard that lies at the heart of racism. Likewise, White American racism against blacks does not excuse racism against them.
Would it be all right for Obama to bomb a White American suburban mall because someone there was a terrorist? And because, besides, most Whites are racist against Blacks? Should he step all over their civil rights of Whites because they have done the same to Blacks? Should he let Native Americans bulldoze the homes and uproot the farms of Whites because it was their land long ago?
Islamophobia makes these sorts of actions against Muslims seem like “not a big deal”.
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Where does Tariku once dehumanise Arabs?
Weak analogy , Abagond. First, you represent yourself about your opinion, its not the monolithic black American position on Obamas policies in Afghanistan. The truth is, there are lots of black Americans who support Obamas policies .
Then, there are a huge amount of people who practice Islam , who absolutly support going after fundimentalist Islamic terrorists, and help out going after these extremists . Making your islamiphobic rhetoric look perplexing…to be sure, there are a large amount of white Fox news devotees, who are Islamiphobic, but , that doesnt translate into foreign policy…we defended , right or wrong, Muslims getting slaughtered in the Balkins…more Americans of all hues , have died fighting white people, in our military history, than fighting people of color
America has a huge fundimental religious problem of its own , what with the Olympic bomber, abortion doctor killers, fundimentalists that want religious mandates in our schools and government, KKKers who refer to god and the bible, and, we even had a case where the government went after religious fundamentalists , in Waco, and children were killed…I dont blame the government at all, i blame the religious fundimentalists
I also wont blame governments crossing borders to go after scum who dirty fight and then run across borders for safe haven…the same thing happened when Colombia crossed Equador borders to bomb Farc, who was hiding there with tacit Equador government knowledge…want to be revolutionary innocents from Mexico were killed in that raid…I support that raid and say any scum thinking they can terrorise people and then cross borders to hide, deserve to be terrorised themselves
this focuson Obama’s drones , while todays headlines carry notices of many civilian deaths from a terrorist bomber in Afghanistan,the notices of poisening school girls wells are ongoing, the assasination of health care workers,, the notices of various Pakistan military maneuvers that also kill Taliban and civilians, because they are fed up with the deaths from Taliban bombings, the notices of over all Islamic support to go after these scum, all make this over focus on Obama’s drone campain , extremly skepticle, and not really looking at the real picture of what is going on…and makes your white suburban analogy look strange
you should substitute cultural racism for islamaphobia…Islamiphobia exists, to be sure, and should be addressed, but I dont buy it with Obamas policies in Afghanistan
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@ Tariku
@ abagond
All? Most of the Africans I know are Muslims, and many millions more black people — Africans — are Muslims, too.
Some examples:
–Benin: 24% of the overall population according to the 2002 census.
–Burkina Faso: approximately 61% of the overall population.
–Cameroon: 21% of the overall population according to the 2005 census..
–Central African Republic: 15% of the overall population according to the 2003 census.
–Chad: more than half of the population.Cote d’Ivoire: approximately 35% to 40% of the overall population.
–The Gambia: more than 90% of the overall population.
–Ghana: 16% of the overall population.
–Guinea-Bissau: 40% of the overall population.
–Kenya: 10% of the overall population.
–Mozambique: 18% of the overall population according to the National Institute of Statistics 2007 census.
–Nigeria: estimated at 50% of the overall population.
–Senegal: approximately 94% of the overall population.
–Sierra Leone: estimated at 77% of the overall population by the Inter-Religious Council.
–Tanzania: roughly 35% of the overall population according to Pew Forum survey conducted in 2010, whereas according to other reports approximately 50% of the overall population.
(From: http://muslimsinafrica.wordpress.com/numbers-and-percentage-of-muslims-in-african-countries/)
According to other research, the total figure is at least half a billion African Muslims, which is more than half of the continent of Africa’s population.
Many of those populations, perhaps the overwhelming majority, would be considered “black” by US racial understanding.
(From: http://www.muslimpopulation.com/africa/)
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Tariku didnt say all black Africans
these percentages dont mean anything about how religions like Islam and Christianity, fundimentaly alter the cultures that were there before, and, he is reffering to actual conflicts that are happening , and are the fontes of racism and looking on ancient black African customs as inferior
I mean Al Queda cutting off hands in Mali is a recent example, sure there is a peacful tolerant Islam in Africa, but there is also great conflict going on also with Islam clashing with non Islam…this is a reality that other people from Africa have come in here to mention
I dont respect covering up these real conflicts in the name of Islamiphobia at all
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Tariku said:
How could you ignore the horrendeous crime which is today committed against black Africans in all Arab and Muslim countries?
….in all
None of us should put words into the mouths of others.
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Tariku said:
“..How could you ignore the horrendeous crime which is today committed against black Africans in all Arab and Muslim countries?”
….in all
None of us should put words into the mouths of others.
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I don’t think people (in America) are so afraid of black men. A justification has to be erected when mistreating others, this justification process is especially true of domestic policies of whole societies. The dominant group don’t come out and say, “we just want to marginalize and criminalize certain people, Tough!” They have to justify it. Even animals like Hitler justified domestic policy against Jews.
There have been excuses used as justifications from police, vigilantes and ordinary citizens. The fear and is reused and broadcast by media outlets, some of them done by black males themselves. And stereotypes are used for political gain. They may not justify such fear. But, they don’t refute the excessive use negative images either for whatever purpose they want.
Sure, they don’t come out and say it as plain as day that they want to criminalize and marginalize certain people because that’s the way it is, but they don’t need to say it. They can just do it and call it something else.
So, I haven’t clicked Brothawolf’s link yet (and I may not) but this idea of examining why people are afraid of black males sounds like accepting a false premise and then going into an intellectual edifice that sounds legit but is maybe not legit at all.
How is it false? I’m just asking.
I think without question the Police and other comparable bodies do try to promote a black male fear thing but they ARE the ones in the business of promoting this idea. I was the victim (on a vacation) of a racist fabrication myself. Even though the accusation against me was false I had this intuition that the whole thing could still spiral against me. The more false the situation the greater need to exacerbate a false threat.
It still could’ve. I’m glad it didn’t, but there’s always a possibility. And such fear of it going deeper is reasonable given the history and atmosphere of this country.
There’s enormous racism in the U.S., that racism needs to be justified with b.s. like “fear of black males.” The fear of black males sounds like a comparable version of “white women’s tears” to me. Some of what I say here comes from my own opinion and also the very unpleasant experience that came on me, through absolutely no fault of my own. I was not even wearing clothes that might draw negative attention. Although I’m very fond of America, I know it’s got a very dark side and I got a direct taste of an aspect of that dark side one day.
Indeed. The fear of black males is insane no matter how you look at it. Yet, that fear can be strong enough to kill as we’ve seen several times.
The film isn’t out yet. So, I assume and hope they will discuss that part as well.
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That’s the whole purpose behind this site and abagond’s followers. They’re trying to fabricate justification for their racial bigotry. Blacks commit interracial crimes against whites at about 50X the reverse and brothawolf’s response is to blame the victims for noticing.
First off, you don’t even know what racism is.
Second, I know you’re exaggerating about the interracial crime stat that I know you pulled out of nowhere.
Third, I’m not blaming the victims, just laughing at you.
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@ Brothawolf
How is it [fear of black males] false? I’m just asking.
To me it is a pretext to carry out real domestic policies. It is just not believable to me that black people or black males are some threat that are out to cause harm. Remember Susan Smith? She thought she could use that fear/prejudice against black males thing. She rolled the dice on that one, lucky thing the police dept wasn’t corrupt or lame enough to carry out her agenda.
Then again, there’s those five black kids (now men) who were forced to confess to the rape and near murder of a female Central Park jogger. The media invented the term “wilding” from that. It’s the media and the police that are erecting this fear thing. It’s a bad joke to me that a regular citizen is really afraid of other Americans who are black. Again, it’s just an excuse to use, in order to carry out discrimination.
Am I splitting a hair? I don’t think so. If we examine exotic intellectual dodges set up by someone else, we allow the real institutional power to continue it’s practices, some of which are dehumanizing practices.
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I see what you’re saying.
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Are we suggesting that the fear of black men is a govt / media conspiracy? Indeed, maybe so. At least the modern version of it. I suspect the fear of black men was different pre=60s.
I definitely believe that the model minority stereotype was a undoubtedly a media / govt conspiracy. It started appearing only 3 months after the Immigration Act was enacted late 1965. The modern version of the fear of black men was enhanced around then.
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It’s a piece of propaganda. Just like: “terrorists want to bomb us because they despise our freedoms. ” [Just a comparison, not looking to derail into foreign policy.]
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King:
This is especially true if there is no good reason for it. Kids will do a lot of things that their parents will say if it makes sense to them, but sooner or later most kids of this generation can see why their parents are full of it, when it comes to their racist warnings
Yes exactly. Children are naturally inquisitive and, sometimes in spite of what their parents/guardians say, they want to find out for themselves. It is a rare child that goes through their life never defying their parents and questioning ‘why’ whilst they ‘find’ their own personalities – they dont stay daddies/mummies boys and girls forever unfortunately.
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You’re deluded.
If he is ‘deluded’, why are you debating someone you think is mentally ill?
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Haven’t checked in here for a while. Interesting post and comments.
–Kiwi, you are clearly obsessed with me.
–Origin, you have some interesting comments, and I can see you are beginning to think outside of the box.
–jefe, of course elite schools have de facto quotas for all races. As an alum, I can say it’s not nearly as high as 75-80% white at the ivies (and percentage of gentile whites is now less than 50%). The evidence for HBD is in the stats you site, but you can’t seem to bring the logical pieces together.
–Da Jokah, nothing you can possibly say can get most of these folks to admit that HBD might have any merit at all. All results and studies are “psuedoscience” or reflect disparities caused by white oppression (white oppression also makes East Africans consistently the best distance runners and West Africans the best sprinters because there are no biological differences between races at all, except skin pigmentation). However, I think most folks understand and believe HBD on a visceral level. It produces self-hatred and generalized anger that seeks a target and a scapegoat, and that is the raison d’être for this blog.
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biff
Uh huh. By logic do you mean that thing you often attempt to use and fail at on each turn. Or you could mean logic as in you advocacy for lowering the age of consent (even though you attempted to backpeddle by saying meta-troll). Nope. I think you might just mean logical in that you try to use “words” to make you seem more knowledgeable than you really are?
Kudos
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@Abagond
It’s not me who “dehumanize” Arabs, rather their own demonic deeds. These deeds have been going on throught the world for the past 1400 years. You can’t bury your head in the sand to avoid their current atrocities against Africans.
http://www.africanglobe.net/africa/arab-terrorists-destroying-ancient-sites-timbuktu/
It sounds ironic but European colonialism saved Africans from barbaric Arab extermination!
“Asian estate agents in London ‘discriminate’ against black tenants”
http://www.voice-online.co.uk/article/estate-agents-london-discriminate-against-black-tenants
There are 22 ‘Arab’ countries, 56 that call themselves Islamic, there’s the Arab league, the Organization of Islamic conference etc. In none of these countries are people of “black” African origin treated with dignity. Just three months ago, over 300,000 East Africans were deported in an inhumane manner from Saudi Arabia.
I humbly tell you that unless you start relating western ‘white’ racism with the history of arab slavery and racism there won’t be any solution to the problems “black” people have in these countries. Remember, there is an Islamic spirit behind “Western Civilization”
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“Tariku
@Abagond
It’s not me who “dehumanize” Arabs, rather their own demonic deeds. These deeds have been going on throught the world for the past 1400 years. You can’t bury your head in the sand to avoid their current atrocities against Africans.”
Linda says,
Tariku, what you say has truth and validity to it but I think this topic of Arab racism needs to go “deeper” than the general statements you’ve made.
I definitely agree that “colourism” and racism is an issue in North Africa… look at Sudan, Egypt, and countries like Yemen. (The funny thing is, many of these “Arabs” carry the same black African genes that they despise)
You brought up the sites in Timbuktu — the Tauregs are fighting with the Malians because the Tauregs claim the Mali borders were created by the Europeans and their ancestral territory was taken away and given to the Malian government that was being supported by France.
so, it seems to me that it’s not just a simple case of “racism” or maybe it is?
If you are African, it would be nice if you would be more “specific” with what is going on in these different countries.
I know that once the French troops came to help the Malian government, the black Malians started killing the Tauregs or anyone they classified as “Maghreb”
Amnesty International says it has evidence of civilian executions and indiscriminate shelling of nomadic Tuaregs’ camp
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jan/19/mali-army-suspected-abuses-killings
“ Residents of Mopti, in the centre of the country, told the Observer of arrests, interrogations and the torture of innocents by the Malian army of those mistakenly suspected of involvement in rebel activity.
Because of that, the army suspects us – if we look like Fulani and don’t have an identity card, they kill us. But many people are born in the small villages and it’s very difficult to have identification.
“We are all afraid,” the cousin continued. “There are some households where Fulanis or others who are fair-skinned don’t go out any more. We have stopped wearing our traditional clothes – we are being forced to abandon our culture, and to stay indoors.”
the Fulani’s and Malian Taureg’s would be considered “black” in America, so is it more of an issue of “light skin vs dark skin” (colourism) driven by Arab racism
or is it religion “muslim vs Christian”
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–Kiwi, you are clearly obsessed with me.
Being a rice queen, that probably turns you on!
The evidence for HBD is in the stats you site, but you can’t seem to bring the logical pieces together
For all your vaunted intellectual superiority you can’t even spell! It is ‘cite’, not site.
All results and studies are “psuedoscience” or reflect disparities caused by white oppression (white oppression also makes East Africans consistently the best distance runners and West Africans the best sprinters because there are no biological differences between races at all, except skin pigmentation).
You may be on to something! What about females? Their inferiority could be explained as a need to shop! Women love shopping! Being black and a female I must be a dumb broad who loves to shop. I now realize my inferiority on a visceral level, thanks. White oppressions wants to make me shop, break it down brother!
It produces self-hatred and generalized anger that seeks a target and a scapegoat, and that is the raison d’être for this blog.
Yessss!!!! Should I target and scapegoat Macys? I have internalized my love for shopping which is my reason for being, I don’t know about this blog though, perhaps the blog owner can create a page to vent and agitate the sales or lack thereof.
In closing, get a life please! You and your ilk cannot be taken seriously. get a clue! You are comical though, Yuk Yuks is looking for some new acts!
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@ Tariku
There’s definitely truth in your argument about the impact of Arab slavery in Africa, and an issue which is necessary to say a lot more about.
But, because your statements are so sweeping and your language so loaded, I am somewhat unsure of what you mean. I’d like to say something about your points, but don’t want to misunderstand you. Could you explain more?
You mention “the demonic deeds” of Arabs, and remark that It sounds ironic but European colonialism saved Africans from barbaric Arab extermination!
To me, are you saying, then, that Europeans were the saviours of Africans?
Do you mean that they were better?
If so, I quite disagree with this, because I would not say that imperliast Europe nurtured Africa at all.
From what history — and the present — tells us, the imperialist project of a handful of those European nations was arguably the most destructive, impoverishing and utterly corrupting course of events the African continent has known…
I’d hardly class King Leopold’s depredations in Congo, or the German depravity against the Herero and Nambib people — the conduct of rescuers or saviours.
Arab slavery destroyed millions of lives in horrifying ways, to be sure. It’s effects aren’t over either!
Yet King Leopold’s enterprises in Kongo reduced the African population from 20 million to 9 million people in 15 years, making him and Belgium very, very rich in the process…As for the Herero and Nambib in today’s Nambibia, we know, through solid German record- keeping *”the Germans meant to wipe out the Herero and Nama and take their land.”
*https://abagond.wordpress.com/2012/07/26/the-herero-and-nama-genocide/
Let us not me not even start on the slaughter, degradation, land dispossession and robbery of South Africa, and “Rhodesia” or elsewhere.
*
Then, you mention that:
I have absolutely no doubt whatever that these South Asian estate agents in London practice a virulent form of anti-black racism among black tenants.
I have seen a fair amount racism practiced between these communities with my own eyes — and in BOTH directions. It’s not the case that it goes one way only.
But, why are you talking about Arabs in the same breadth as South Asians in London? Are you saying the Asian estate agents are ARABS?
Are they also all Muslims? I can assure you that neither would be true.
Do Arabs and South Asians look all the same to you?
Indians are not Arabs. Not all Arabs are Muslims. Not all Muslims are Arabs.
These people in your link can trace their heritage back to the Indian subcontinent: they’re Indians, Pakistanis, Bengalis, Sri Lankans, Nepalese.
By religion, they are Sikhs, Buddhists, Christians, among others. Some are Muslims, some are Hindu.
Do Sikhs look like Muslims to you?
http://indianbusinessdirectory.co.uk/indian-real-estate-agents-london-england-uk/
These generalizations makes me unclear about what your argument and sounds close to demonisation and racial scapegoating.
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@Kiwi
A surgical procedure is physical assault. One person is cutting the other person with an instrument. The only thing that makes it not criminal is that it is done with the victim’s consent. Presumably, you ordered or engaged the doctor to cut you with a knife.
Consider boxing. Professional boxers are assaulting each other in a very violent, physical way. It is not criminal. However, if one person punched another person out without his consent, then it would be criminal. Both are violent physical assault.
If a doctor cuts you without your consent, or cuts you in a way other than how you consented, then he would be guilty of criminal assault – it is both criminal and violent. (eg, a forced abortion or any unordered surgical “correction”).
No suppose that the person cannot consent (eg, because he has lost so much blood that he is unconscious). Then the law provides for some measure of “implied consent” in the Good Samaritan sense and protects the doctor from being charged with criminal assault.
However, it starts to become a grey area if another person has the legal power to order a surgical procedure on another person. In the example above, say a spouse or parent ordered surgery on their unconsenting family member because they could not give consent. There are generally protected if the surgery is a matter of life and death (eg, a forced abortion where the mother’s life is in serious danger if the pregnancy is not terminated, and the mother is unconscious and cannot consent. Another example could be limb amputation if a child’s leg is buried under rubble after an earthquake.) The grey area arises if the surgical procedure is not medically necessary (eg, gender reassignment surgery, circumcision, body piercing, bone lengthening of children by breaking and and streching children’s bones, cosmetic surgery, etc.). Is it a legal procedure or is it violent criminal assault?
So, yes, surgery is always violent physical assault. However, it is not always criminal.
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@da jokah
Don’t you find it odd that you deflected from the topic, racism, to talk about “Illegitimacy, crime, poor academic performance, etc” which you attribute not to racism but “a result of ones own choices, behavior and abilities. ” Why bring them up if they have nothing to do with racism?
“If you look at the data, you’ll see most serial killers are black”
Of course, that is completely false. Even the Radford study you mentioned says that’s false.
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To Jefe:
A surgical procedure is physical assault. One person is cutting the other person with an instrument. The only thing that makes it not criminal is that it is done with the victim’s consent.
By both legal terms and the dictionary definition an assault is without the victim’s consent. Hence surgery with the consent of the patient (not the victim..) is not assault.
However, the victims of Josef Mengele and people like him… where there was clearly no consent or medical value would fit the definition of assault.
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Regarding an unpleasant situation going from bad to worse, Brothawolf said:
It still could’ve. I’m glad it didn’t,…
———————————————
Thank you.
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@UM
Thank you for your comment.
My additional comment:
– “Assault” (even the legal definition) does not always mean without the victim’s consent. It depends on the legal definition in the relevant jurisdiction in which the law is applied (and the nature of the assault). Can a man rape his wife if she consented to sex, or if she failed to give legal consent? What about if she suffered severe or long-term physical damage?
– the dictionary definition generally does not require “without the victim’s consent” in defining the word “assault”
– we can replace “assault” with “violent attack” if that makes you feel more comfortable, removing the legal connotation. But “violent attack” is the general definition for assault
– in the case of surgery, we probably should use the word “battery” or “assault and battery” as it involves direct physical contact. We can’t do surgery over the phone or online, but we can certainly do assault.
– again, battery would be criminal in most jurisdictions if the “victim” did not consent (or give “implied” consent). It only has this meaning in the context of “criminal law”. Outside the context of criminal law, there is no requirement for victim consent. It is not a requirement under the dictionary definition. (I just checked a half-dozen different dictionaries).
–> Surgery is still assault and battery. It is “criminal” (qualifying under the context of criminal law) if it is performed without the victim’s consent. It is legal and non-criminal if performed with the victim’s consent, but that does not mean it is not assault and battery. It then becomes legal (and non-criminal) assault and battery – a violent attack on another person performed with that person’s consent or implied consent.
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jefe:
I have never heard of surgery (when consent is granted) as assault…where is this coming from…?
As for the dictionary definition which presumably you have read:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/assault
“- we can replace “assault” with “violent attack” if that makes you feel more comfortable, removing the legal connotation. But “violent attack” is the general definition for assault..”
Yes it is, at least from Merriam Webster
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/battery
” Outside the context of criminal law, there is no requirement for victim consent. It is not a requirement under the dictionary definition. (I just checked a half-dozen different dictionaries).”
Well at least at MW it explicitly states that battery is an the use of force or offensive touching without consent.
Also here:
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/battery
“The infliction of unlawful personal violence on another person, even where the contact does no physical harm..”
Key word being unlawful.. surgery when consent is granted (and at least in the US the person is a recognized medical practitioner with the legal right to perform surgery..) is generally lawful.
Assault is also recognized as act or violence or threatened violence here:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/assault?s=t
Of course assault can be used in other contexts.. such as “as assault on our freedom of speech..” basically synonymous with attack but not necessarily violent in nature.
Maybe I am not understanding you… can you give some examples or articles that equate lawful surgery with consent to assault and/or battery,,,?
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@UM,
Your link to M-W dictionary was the only one I have seen so far that indicated that it involved the consent of the victim. The half dozen others I checked all do not, including Oxford, the one Abagond designated as his official dictionary reference.
http://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/assault-and-battery
I am not talking about assault in other contexts besides assault and battery.
The context in which I have seen surgery being classified as assault and battery were cases of medical malpractice. For example, suppose that a women consented to a hysterectomy, but the surgeon removed other organs or parts of the labia or something. Another example would be if a surgeon recommended that a woman undergo a hysterectomy and the woman consented, but failed to alert the patient to other less invasive treatment options. In some cases, the consent could be invalidated and the surgeon be charged with assault and battery. I have read about several of these cases.
–> ie, unnecessary surgery or surgery performed without valid consent.
But many of the several dozen cases that I have read in detail where a “lawful” surgery was performed, but where the doctor / surgeon was later charged with assault and battery, involved circumcision. However, often, since the procedure is still often treated as “lawful”, many of these cases are settled as civil cases (but not always).
We probably can put into 3 categories:
1. Parent did not consent, but doctor performed anyhow.
2. Parent consented, and doctor performed, but the result ended in something tragic (eg, burning the penis off or complete amputation, infection which became septic resulting in the death or permanent disability of the child, etc.)
3. Parent consented, doctor performed, but after the child reached the age of majority, he sued the doctor (or even parent) or brought assault and battery charges to them. Some of these were done as a class action lawsuit. Some succeeded for the victim in either civil or criminal court.
The last one is interesting as technically, parents may not legally consent to surgical procedures on their children unless they are absolutely medically necessary (eg, a matter of life and death, or maybe result in permanent disability for the child if untreated). Circumcision is NOT one of those (well maybe in 1 out of 10,000 cases) , so technically, parents may not legally consent to it. Yet they can and do for male minors. For females, it is illegal whether they consent or not.
So, thousands of assault and battery charges have been brought onto doctors due to various surgical procedures being performed. Given that over 1/3 of all surgical procedures in the USA are medically unnecessary, there is plenty of opportunity for doctors to be charged with assault and battery even if “consent” was obtained.
If you are still uncomfortable with calling surgery assault and battery, I have no problem terming it as “violent physical attack”.
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well if you’re in a car accident and can’t consent? and can you say ‘302’ or involuntary interment for psychological reasons? Also, and this is going to sound offensive, but Sims’ ‘patients’ or ‘victims’ were slaves, so was there even a law against killing a slave that an owner considered troublesome? I’m sure Sims thought he was doing some maintenance on ‘equipment’ ie workers not even considered human. (sorry wrong thread, i know)
furthermore, there have been several cases (relatively) lately in the medical arena in the US where grevious wrong has been done, i.e. wrong leg amputated, etc., but that’s considered civil, and may get the doctor sanctioned or revoked license, but i can’t think of a doctor having been criminally prosecuted for what is loosely termed ‘malpractice’
and two dudes can consent to a street fight, but they’re both getting written up if a cop happens along in most cases especially if someone goes to the hospital or worse.
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@ Jefe
Apart from the ideas put forward here, I’ve also heard an analysis of beauty that classes the attainment of beauty as violent assault on the body. It is a kind that requires no obvious force to enforce, and as a form of assault requires no physical deprivation, no legal inequality, and no economic exploitation. Yet it’s pretty invasive and violent.
Cutting and piercing the body (something carried out by “artists” in dedicated salons) carries the status of everyday good looks. But even something like tongue piercing is laden with risk: http://www.drhendry.ca/InfoAndLinks/TonguePiercing/Piercing.htmllooks.
There has also been some discussion of there being a connection with self-harm (cutting the body with razors, etc.). http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/popular-culture-meets-psychology/200907/tattoos-and-body-piercing-adolescent-self-expression-or
I suppose practices of the piercing and tattooing kind are a socially approved form of self-injury. The tongue-piercing stuff is small-fry relatively speaking to say, breast augmentation surgery, which is something that seems to be routinely desired by many young teenaged girls. In fact, some of the popular “chat” magaziness are full of it: cosmetic surgeries as absolutely normal.
I recall a pattern of what was acceptable, for example Mel B of the Spice Girls had her implants put in, then enlarged, then removed because they went hard and might leak, and then put back in (even larger this time round).
Pamela Anderson did something like that, too.
Come to think of it, didn’t Victoria Beckham have 2 surgeries as well, also paying for her sisters’ surgery, adding on laser resurfacing (injury by burning off the top layers of dermis) on her face.
Anna Nicole Smith had operation after operation to get a bigger and bigger bosom, and was repeatedly hospitalized to deal with the painful swelling and infections. And then there is the Brazilian couple that comes to mind, too — Ox and Angela Bismarchi. Ox is a surgeon and he has performed probably well over 12 surgeries on his much-younger wife to show and advertise his skill with the knife on every part of her body: http://i1.r7.com/data/files/2C95/948E/37FB/1E9C/0137/FF9D/84C5/47E6/angelaox.png
I suppose it’s only when it goes wrong / turns out in an unexpected way that the “danger” aspect of it is brought home.
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@V8, If the victim cannot consent, then Good Samaritan Laws have the notion of “implied consent”, what a prudent person would do.
@ Bulanik, yes, they are all physical injuries, even the self-inflicted ones.
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Jefe:
So, thousands of assault and battery charges have been brought onto doctors due to various surgical procedures being performed.
At least in the US I have not heard of any licensed physicians being charged with assault and battery for unnecessary surgery. Could you cite a few cases…?
If you are still uncomfortable with calling surgery assault and battery, I have no problem terming it as “violent physical attack”.
Your comments are the first I have ever heard describing authorized surgery by a licensed physician as assault and battery.. can you provide some examples or legals cases in the US where term assault and battery has been used towards a licensed physician performing approved medical surgery…?
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Just a minor comment here. Silly people.
President Obama is shown in the Islamophobic racism slot because of the ridiculous reaction to his father’s religion by the republicans and others. Insistence on calling him by his full name, with emphasis on ‘Hussein’, during the election is a prime example. Do pay attention to what goes on in the world from time to time.
He could fill a couple of the other slots as well. Has any other President been referred to in the media as “Mr.” as often as he, especially while still in office?
That being said, this post was spot on. Well done sir. (the sir based on references to Abagond as male, I really should double check)
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I’m a white man of Western European descent. With that said, I’m so done with racism. I mean, totally done.
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Opinion piece by Amy Chua in the NYT
I don’t know what she is trying to prove.
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[…] clip below by Jay Smooth published by Race Forward gives us simple good examples of how systemic or institutional racism occurs in the United States. Is systemic racism a problem in Finland? If so, how and where does it […]
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Saw a quote that i liked and it goes like this “Racist are inherently intellectual cowards.” That gives me food for thought.
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@Mary Burrell
Great quote and very true.
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