The N-word

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The N-word

Sat Jun 29th 2013 by abagond

The N-word is the word “nigger”, one of the three truly taboo words left in Standard English in 2013 (the other two start with c and f). It means a black person but has behind it hundreds of years of white racist contempt, particularly when it comes out of the mouth of a white person.

Timeline (when words first appeared in writing):

1550s: Negro, probably from Spanish or Portuguese, where it simply means “black”.
1568: neger
late 1600s: nigger
1800: nigger in the woodpile
1840s: nigger-brown (shade of brown)
1878: nigger heaven (upper gallery in segregated theatres)
1896: nigger toes (Brazil nuts)
1925: niggah (in black use)
1944: nigra (possibly worse than “nigger” itself)
1967: a thousand place names in the US still have he word “nigger” in them.
1969: nigga (black use)

By the late 1700s, at the latest, the word had become racist. The word itself is a screwed up way of saying “Negro”, which till the 1960s was the proper, respectable word for dark-skinned Africans.

By the 1800s whites applied the N-word not just to the dark-skinned people from Africa, but to those from India, Australia, Polynesia and the Philippines as well.

In Jim Crow times (1877-1968) the racism that underlies the word was so taken for granted that White Americans could use the word as mere description without any ill-will – like in Mark Twain.

Since the 1960s, with the fall of Jim Crow, the word has changed among Americans:

among whites:
- its public use has become one of the few signs that one is racist, now considered a grave moral fault.
- Its private use is seen as harmless and meaningless by many if not most whites.
- Its artistic use, like in “Django Unchained” (2012), is debatable.
among blacks some have tried to reclaim it by using it as a common word, to take the sting out of it. Mostly written as “nigga” or “niggah”, it can have a negative to neutral to positive meaning depending on context. Other blacks, however, avoid the word as wrong to use. Either way the word plays out against a background of internalized racism (black self-hatred).

Use in hip hop music: This can be an act of reclamation, as with Lauryn Hill, or it can come from and strengthen internalized racism, as with gangsta rap. That in turn has to be set against the fact that most listeners of hip hop are white, where the N-word can amount to minstrelsy – blacks degrading themselves for white entertainment.

Chris Rock: Ugh. In the 1990s he informed us that only some blacks are “niggas”. Whites love to quote him, especially those whose idea of “some” is 99.991%.

“If blacks use the word, why can’t whites? So unfair! Waahh!” Given the past and present racism of whites, there is probably no public use of the word by a white person that would not reasonably offend at least a fair number of black people. Whites who still want to use the word anyway want to disrespect blacks. Why would they want to do that? Because they are racist.

Thanks to Sondis for suggesting this post.

– Abagond, 2013.

See also:

The c-word
The term “redskin”
whitey
John McWhorter and the N-word – McWhorter is a right-wing Black American linguist
Uses of the N-word:
Negro
minstrel show
- BET Fallacy
Django Unchained

Posted in stuff | 159 Comments

159 Responses

on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 12:47:36 You're an idiot

I think that anyone who uses the word on a regular basis is ignorant. That’s just my opinion tho. I don’t care about those who use it in the heat of the moment. Is it appropriate? No. But I don’t see it different than any other curse word. And I don’t believe for one second that black people aren’t using slurs against whites. Especially in the heat of the moment. It’s no different. Racism goes every way. I feel if blacks really wanted to be treated equally, they would act like it. But no. They have a whole month dedicated to their race. They have scholarships just for their race. If white people had that, it would be racist. It’s 2013. People need to move on from the PAST if they really want to have a change. Jews were treated just as awful and they don’t pull that crap.

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 13:19:56 resw77

Great summation. Just want to mention that the origin of the word actually goes back to mid 1400s…Gomes Eanes de Zurara, a historian, recounted the first Portuguese encounter with blacks on the shores of West Africa. The ship’s captain saw from sea some “black things” or “negros” ashore, and came to the realisation that they were the heads of men.

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 13:36:07 Liz Bliss

Lots of things to think about.
Liz

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 13:38:44 Liz Bliss

If blacks can use that word, why can’t whites? They can if they are racist. Those that aren’t or are trying not to be, given their life of privilege, do not use it.

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 13:49:23 mary burrell

@ Liz Bliss, God bless you. You kind of live in fairyland with the pink unicorns. My suggestion to you dear lady is get educated about misogyny and read lots of books on this subject. Even if Black people use this ugly insidious word, and I don’t like it that they do. Why should you are any other white person want to say it to. Because this is a word ingrained in the psyche of a majority of White people here in American and abroad. You seem very naieve too me. But to be fair I hope you are trying to learn and change your mindset and behavior as well as that of your other white brothers and sisters.

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 13:50:17 mary burrell

*or any other white person*

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 14:12:29 mary burrell

Randall Kennedy’s book is a good one to read. I remembered I have it on my book shelf. “N-word, The Strange Career of A Troublesome Word.”

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 14:12:36 B. R.

I just dont think people who are not black should play with it at all..

I wont judge how any black person wants to use the term, I dont want to condemn any black person using it to difuse the word, and I respect any black person who doesnt like it at all

I always felt uncomfortable seeing Copala ,Tarantino, or other directors using it in their films, even though they might say its just trying to show how people might express themselves in real life…it just makes me feel uncomfortable…but, Im not going to say it should be banned in art…I just dont feel comfortable hearing it

In a Fox news report on the Deem incident, some substiture for Riley was remarking how a witness in the Trayvon Martin case was using `cr ac ker`, and that it was hypocrycy to condemn Deen…I seriously disagree with that logic, there is no comparison

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 14:15:10 mary burrell

There have been many high profile individuals using this word. This moth it’s Paula Deen. Six month from now it will be another offender. Will we be in a frenzy then. I am not surprised when these people are exposed.

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 14:31:37 mary burrell

You can’t teach old dogs new tricks. If some of these older generation white people have had this mindset for many years they are not going to change. They will go to their graves with this mindset.

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 14:37:28 Solesearch

Nigga isn’t black. It is southern. “R” dropping is present in most southern accents. Whites and blacks do it. Most of what is considered a black accent is just a southern accent.

I think the n-word is worse when used by black folks. The idea of reclaiming the word is offensive to me in that it is rewriting history and making it even harder to talk about the history of black folks in America. Plus, it obviously doesn’t work. Probably because black people are still being treated like second class humans.

What else are we going to reclaim? Slavery? Lynching?

Plus, I’m a firm believer in the saying its not what they call you it’s what you answer to.

Plus, it says a lot about a person when they expect more from someone else than they expect from themselves.

With those things in mind, I think black folks who call themselves n-words know themselves a lot better than I do so who am I to object to them calling themselves n-words. And can you really expect someone who thinks so little of themselves to respect anyone else?

Rappers call women b-words and whores, gay men f-words, white people c-words, they don’t respect anyone and they aren’t role models. But white folks on tv are always pointing to their use of the n-word like it legitimizes it.

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 14:46:12 Solesearch

It seems to me that the masses of black people want to hold on to their own self-hatred while condemning white people for their racism. I guess that is part of the self hatred.

Would it be wrong to say white people have been more successful at combating their racism than blacks have at combating their own internalized racism?

If so, I guess they have had more help in the form of black folks, where as white people are not allowed to confront black people about their internalized racism.

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 14:47:38 jefe

among Asians its private, friendly same-race use is acceptable.

Since when?

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 14:50:59 abagond

@ Jefe

That is according to John McWhorter in 2003, so since then at least. But he is not right about everything. I’ve noticed.

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 14:56:51 mary burrell

I heard this person say that this word isn’t just for blacks. Anyone can be a N-word. The person went on to explain how the word meant lazy, ignorant and stupid. I was not pleased with this person’s definition of this word. It left me wanting a better definition. That definition that commenter made just ringed pretty empty and hollow to me.

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 15:03:26 mary burrell

@ solesearch: You are on point. Great comments. Especially the point you made about black people and their internalized racism. Your comment on this topic has given me something to think about.

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 15:06:57 jefe

That is according to John McWhorter in 2003

acceptable to whom? Amongst themselves? In greater society or at least mixed company?

I am not sure I understand how private friendly use among white people is “harmless” or “meaningless”, but among Asians, it’s “acceptable”.

If that all is coming out of John McWhorter’s mouth, we should qualify it as his opinion (or as your opinion if you agree with it).

You already depicted him as an opinionated person before:
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2010/08/28/john-mcwhorter-and-the-n-word/

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 15:16:09 mary burrell

@ Abagond you should do a post on hatespeech. I guess I should go through the archives to see if did do one.

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 15:20:44 Robert Y.

I think the root of the world is Latin “niger,nigra, nigrum, ” and then passed on into the Romance languages, such as Spanish and Portuguese.

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 15:21:11 acj13

Reblogged this on revealingartisticthoughts and commented:
Some people like to use the excuse that “words are just words” and yet no other race would be comfortable being called their degrading racial slur, so why do people think they should be able to do the same to Blacks?

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 15:25:02 acj13

Another thing, I don’t see anyone asking the Jews why they can’t call them a racial slur, you know seeing as how the holocaust was oh so long ago. White people cannot say the word period, Idc who lets them think they can, they can’t. They just don’t like anyone especially someone they believe is beneath them, telling them what they can and cannot say. Oh well too bad, so sad. How come no one is mad at the gays for not letting heterosexuals use the f-word?

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 15:25:19 TrulyPC

Thanks for reminding why I hate that word so much. Reclaim? Why would we want to reclaim a word created out of hate towards us. No thank you. I have disdain for the use of that word by anyone but I readily admit that a non-Black person using that word will awaken a rage that they won’t be able to explain away. Just to know that white people especially can’t seem to exist without feeling the need to create and engage in hate towards us is the reason why I refuse to think it’s okay to ever allow them to be excused easily after engaging in it. So that they are living as uncomfortably in this world as Black people have to live. We can’t just LIVE so why should they be able to.

Hence the reason why I am immensely on board with Paula Deen being the poster child for racists right now. For centuries, white women have been given too much cover. Usually being perceived as passive recipients of the fallout for white men’s racists actions. Paula Deen represents the dispelling of that lie in living color (pun intended).

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 15:25:37 abagond

@ Jefe

It is McWhorter, not me. I personally have never heard an Asian American use the word in any way. I am not going to go out on a limb for McWhorter, so I pulled it from the post. But I would still like to hear from Asian Americans on this issue.

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 15:28:21 mary burrell

@ Abagond: Silly me, the SEE ALSO: Is an addendum to the thread post. So disregard my comment about a post on hate speech. You already did that.

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 15:33:53 mary burrell

And Gwyneth Paltrow, I guess because she is friends with Jay-Z and Beyoncé she got a pass to use the word because Kanye and Jay-Z were doing their N-word in Paris concert. That was kind of crazy to me when that went down.

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 15:34:30 abagond

@ acj13

“How come no one is mad at the gays for not letting heterosexuals use the f-word?”

Good point.

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 15:38:40 mary burrell

@ acj13: Hey Sister, You need to remember what happened to Isaiah Thomas why his career is stalled after he called his Grey’s Anatomy co-star. A f-word.

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 15:41:54 mary burrell

@ acj13, It was Isaiah Washington. That called T.K. Knight his co-star that gay slur. He was made to go to sensitivity training and his career hasn’t been right since.

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 15:43:25 mary burrell

Why do women refer to each other as the b-word. I hate that. But it’s another term of endearment. I guess this is a generational thing.

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 15:49:06 Omnipresent

You’re an idiot:

And I don’t believe for one second that black people aren’t using slurs against whites.

Shouldnt the fact that you havent given examples show that there probably arent any words that black people could say to white people that have a huge legacy enough to cause the reaction that the ‘n’ word does.

I dont know any myself.

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 15:57:06 sondis

B.R.:

“In a Fox news report on the Deem incident, some substiture for Riley was remarking how a witness in the Trayvon Martin case was using `cr ac ker`, and that it was hypocrycy to condemn Deen…I seriously disagree with that logic, there is no comparison”

White people always make a big deal out of a black person, saying the word, “cracker” as a racial slur as if it actually hurts white people.

Cracker doesn’t have anywhere near the hateful or degrading meaning behind it.

The truth be told, if i call a white person a racist, they would be far more outraged and offended, than if i called them a cracker.

But i digress…The fact that no famous black person or anyone worthy of noting has been caught saying, cracker to a white person and have it make the news and ruin ones career, proves that calling a white person a cracker, doesn’t have the same effect, being that white people are the dominate race in America.

Black people for the most part, just don’t go around, calling white people cracker, we prefer to just call them what they are, racists!

mary burrell:

You forgot to mention, “Dog the bounty hunter”. He got caught, calling his son’s black girlfriend, “Monique” the “N” word over the phone, several times.

He did what every single white person does, when caught saying the “N” word, they call a press conference or just accept an interview by a well known, host of a show.

The white women, cry and sob and the white men, look pitiful!

I mean wow, when i saw Dog the bounty hunter on TV, saying the most ridiculous things to cover himself, he looked so pitiful, trying to garner sympathy. he made things worse by appearing on Larry King Live.

watch how Dog Chapman, apologizes to LARRY KING, not the black woman, “Monique” that he was referring too.

http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/bestoftv/2007/11/08/lkl.daily.duane.dog.chapman.intv.cnn

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 16:01:52 mary burrell

When Rachel Jentel the young black woman testifying on the Trayvon Martin case used the word cracker. Fox News went on a rampage. Saying she used a racial slur and it was hypocritical for Black people to vilify Paula Deen. She was quoting what allegedly was said in a conversation between she and Trayvon Martin. But Fox News being who they are went after Miss Jentel.

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 16:02:08 abagond

@ Idiot

Blacks do not have a word that is a true counterpart to the n-word. Black racism is not a mirror image of white racism. Blacks do not build their racial identity on looking down on others like whites do, so they do not have the NEED for racial slurs that whites seem to have.

On this blog over 90% of the racial slurs come from white people, particularly Americans and Australians. Even “whitey” is mainly used by whites – to make blacks look just as racist as themselves.

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 16:05:09 sondis

abagond:

opps, i didn’t know that Crack*r was a moderated word. @ : o x ) >

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 16:18:40 mary burrell

@ sondis: Yes, I remember that incident with Dog the Bounty Hunter as well. forgot about that one. It was pathetic how he tried to apologize. I wish these people would just own who they are.

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 16:26:36 John Piper: Is "Nigga" Another Way of Saying "That Guy"? - Christ.Culture.News (CCN Online)

[…] The n-word (abagond.wordpress.com) […]

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 16:36:04 mary burrell

Laura Schlesinger has always rankled me. I felt horrible for that Black lady that called in to her radio show asking for help about her white husband calling her this word. Instead of getting help, Schlesinger pulled the Black people use the word meme out of her anal parts. The poor woman thought she would get some professional advice and was attacked by another racist jerk in tandem with her racist husband. I wonder what that woman thinks about her experience. Will this experience with her racist husband and Sclesinger’s racist reply to her color her beliefs and views about white people?

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 16:46:31 sondis

mary burrell:

This is what happens to black women, who think white men are so much more better than black men.

They try to ignore the past of how white men, raped them and their little 10 year old daughters and by ignoring how white men, look at and treat black women now with a “color-blind” attitude.

Then when they see it up close and person, black women have the nerve to act, SURPRISED!

I don’t feel one bit sorry for that sista, she got what she wanted, a white man and then got bent out of shape, when he showed his true colors.

The fact that she could go as far to marry a white man, that looks at her as a “N” shows that she wasn’t looking at the person, she was marrying.

She was only looking at the fact that he was white and nothing more, how can you date and marry someone and not know they are racist???

Because she didn’t care to find out, if he wanted her for her as a woman or if he wanted her, for the sole reason, she was black and could satisfy his twisted sick fantasy to sleep with a black woman.

I have no sympathy for such sell outs…

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 16:50:26 Kushite Prince

‘Negro’ is a Spanish word meaning ‘Black.’ Negro is closely connected to the word ‘Necro,’ a Greek word, which means ‘Dead.’ The connection with “Black” and “dead” is not necessarily a Negative it’s also derived from Naga the “Black Serpent”.

Negger means “Golden One,” in ancient Egypt, which was called “Kamit” Negger, is another form of the god “Geb also referred to as Seb and Keb This god was the personification of the earth, and indeed this is what his name means – earth, and thus it was said that when he laughed, it caused earthquakes. Because of this association with fatness, and vegetation, and so forth, the individual glyph became used as the word for goose represented as a black goose, where black represented the fertile soil and also the people of the land, Negger’s. It is also a termed for the King-Initiate which keeps its connection to Naga the Serpent King/ Queen.

“Niger” is a masculine derivative of the ancient Egyptian word “Ngu,” which means Serpent King. It is a title of the Egyptian King, Pharaoh or Priest. “Niger-ia” is a feminine derivative of the ancient Egyptian word “Nga,” (Naga) which means “Serpent Queen.” It is a title of the Egyptian Queen; this title was give to those who have mastered the Uraeus power. When you see an Egyptian headdress which has a snake on the top of it, you are looking a Uraeus crown. The Uraeus (plural Uraei or Uraeuses) is the stylized, upright form of an Egyptian spitting cobra (or snake / serpent / asp), used as a symbol of sovereignty, royalty, deity and divine authority in ancient Egypt. Uraeus is a Greek word that may have its origins in ancient Egyptian, meaning “she who rears up” obvious reference to the Kundalini energy.
“Nig-gina” is the Mesopotamian word for ‘Justice. “Nig-sisa” is the Mesopotamian word for “Righteousness.”
“Nega Negast” An Ethiopian word which, means “(Serpent) King of Kings.

“Nag Hammadi,” is an ancient Aramaic and Hebrew scripture which means “The Serpent Black Guide.”
“Naga-saki”- A Japanese city destroyed by an atomic bomb in 1945, by the U.S. and it means ‘Serpent Spirit” or “Serpent Life-Force”.

Nibiru (Sumerian), the Golden Light (Auric Halo). This golden light connected to the Lead to gold you hear so much about in Alchemy which is an internal process. Those who call themselves Naga understood their royal connection and there mastery of the most advanced transformation process on planet earth called alchemy. So much so they named themselves after that fact. To dissociate yourself with what you have earned if foolish. Your words have a divine frequency on them, especially the ancient ones. Each time you call it out it’s a mantra. in fact, if I understood these things and you did not and I seek to disconnect you from who you truly are The first thing I’d to is get you to hate the very thing you called yourself world wide. The process is easy, in fact I pointed out already how it’s unfolding now with the word “Yo”. It’s only a clever plan when you agree to it and start saying the “N” word.

“Netjer” is the Medu origin of the word Nigger, which means “God; God of Wisdom or force of nature. So the next time a white person calls you a nigger–consider it a compliment.lol Peace.

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 16:51:35 choconutjoe

“…“Negro”, which till the 1960s was the proper, respectable word for dark-skinned Africans.”

Slightly off topic, but whatever happened to this word? MLK and Malcom X used it a lot, but it seems quite rare these days.

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 17:00:51 mary burrell

And to add insult to injury Schlesinger used the N-word 11 times. Can you image being on the receiving end of that tirade? You are injured because of your racist husband and you are looking for answers and some healing of the psyche. Why anyone would go looking to this sick woman is beyond me. This poor lady gets assaulted with the N-word. 11 times. I wonder what she thinks about white people now? You can be married to a racist. That is one example. I saw on another black womens blog, one commenter wrote in about her husband likes using that word while they were being intimate. That’s sick.

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 17:05:08 mary burrell

@choconutjoe: Uhm……. Because it’s 2013 not 1960. Negro is very out dated.

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 17:12:20 Solesearch

Sondis,

“This is what happens to black women, who think white men are so much more better than black men.

They try to ignore the past of how white men, raped them and their little 10 year old daughters and by ignoring how white men, look at and treat black women now with a “color-blind” attitude.”

Little 10 year old black girls are being raped in 2013 by black men and plenty of black women ignore that so why wouldn’t they ignore something that happened in the 1800 and 1900s.

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 17:15:54 sondis

mary burrell

“@choconutjoe: Uhm……. Because it’s 2013 not 1960. Negro is very out dated.”

Duh, right mary? LMFAO! I would think it would be obvious, why that word isn’t being used anymore. Talk about out of touch…..

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 17:20:12 choconutjoe

Sorry if it seems like a stupid question. I’m neither black nor American so I don’t have any first hand experience. I was just curious as to how, why and when the word fell out of usage.

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 17:26:32 mary burrell

@choconutjoe: It is an out dated term sir, Black Americans have not used that term since the 1960’s.

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 17:27:24 mstoogood4yall

I don’t use the f word and have no intention to. Now if i have common sense, and compassion enough to not use the f word and there is no history of blacks in america lynching gays or anything. Why would whites want to use a word that has a negative history that their ancestors used as they lynched blacks. Pure and simple is hatred or they lack compassion. They yearn for the good ole days, Blacks needed a pass to leave the plantation, now they ask sellout rappers to give them a pass to use the n word. They wish it was back to that time, why do u think whites keep going on about oh trayvon should’ve stopped when george asked him and answered his questions. smh.

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 17:29:02 mary burrell

@ sondis; Maybe the gentlemen didn’t know. There are many things I don’t know. So I will give choconutjoe a break and cut him some slack. Maybe he was enlightened today. At least I hope so. He sounded sincere.

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 17:32:35 mary burrell

@ Kushite Prince: Drop that knowledge bomb. BOOM!!!! Love you for this.

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 17:36:50 mstoogood4yall

Its interesting how the directors have the n word usage alot and say oh we were trying to show how it was back then that was how they spoke. rofl really well why don’t u actually show how it was back then instead of watering it down and whitewashing it. Just say u love using the word and hate having to tell the real story. the only true to life thing they did was use the n word everything else was watered down.

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 17:42:26 mary burrell

Of all the ethnicities in humankind. The Black race is the most excoriated. Many racial ethnicities have racial epithets but it just seems of African heritage are the most hated, even among ourselves.

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 17:43:54 mary burrell

* It just seems to me*

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 17:43:56 choconutjoe

@mary: Thanks. If I might follow up with one more silly question…

Do white Americans/racists still use it (i.e. has it become an epithet)? Or is it just an outdated term like “hip” or “cat”?

I promise I’ll stop now 🙂

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 17:46:25 Origin

I never use it but only a real jackass can’t understand why it matters who says it. I’m not going to assume that if a Jewish comedian makes jokes about the Holocaust I’m given a free pass to do so when I’m not Jewish. Only a clueless man would believe he can tell crass jokes about pregnancy and childbirth because he heard a woman do it. If someone who’s lost a leg jokes about it that doesn’t mean a two-legged person can do so whenever he sees an amputee. If something is not part of your cultural or personal experience you don’t have an unqualified right to make light of it without causing offence. Anyone with the slightest modicum of social awareness knows this and most white people do. They’re just annoyed by the colonialization of their slur. Unfortunately, some people have lost way more than a nasty word. Cry me a river.

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 17:51:00 mary burrell

@choconutjoe. You are just too adorable. I think white racist use lots of other horrible racist terms. Negro is not a bad term. It’s just an outdated word that die with words like hip or cat. Although I like hip and cat. You are alright with me choconutjoe. LOL.

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 17:52:26 Kushite Prince

@Mary
Thanks sis! Much appreciated.lol

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 17:54:39 mary burrell

@ Origin: Well the world and society in general is full of jackasses. Because Everyone is a sitting duck now a days. Noboy is safe. If you follow pop culture you will see nothing and knowbody no matter what,whether it’s race or the disabled, religion etc. Everyone gets shot at.

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 17:55:19 mary burrell

*nobody*

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 17:58:46 choconutjoe

@mary: Thanks 🙂

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 18:05:07 Shanda

“They try to ignore the past of how white men, raped them and their little 10 year old daughters and by ignoring how white men, look at and treat black women now with a “color-blind” attitude.”

So what’s your opinion on black men who parade around with white women? Are they showing off too, or are they ok because ‘white women aren’t racist?’

Funny how you and Sondis conveniently left out the ugly history of white women falsely accusing black men of rape, i.e. Emmett Till, Scottsboro Boys, etc. All the lynchings, castrations, being burned alive cannot excuse the way these black men were treated, but it’s alright if it’s black men and white women are together.

I’ve seen some black men admit that they find it hot when white women get mad and call them the n-word. What do you say to black men like that, hmmm?

Oh, the hypocrisy of it all…

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 18:17:06 Becca

When I was younger I was friends with other white people who would use the N-word casually when we were amongst ourselves offhandedly and in racist jokes. I never called them out for it because I was afraid they would be offended and say I was overly “politically correct.” This was not in the rural South either. . .this was in suburban Oregon. So I think Black people are correct in hypothesizing that large numbers of white people say this word behind closed doors.

Today I would never be friends with a white person who uses the N-word like that, and since I hang out with highly “progressive” white people that isn’t an issue. But many of my white friends, even people who are declared anti-racists, will still say the N-word when referring to it, as in: “I watched this movie where all the characters kept saying “n****r.” And to me that’s still racist. I doubt they would be comfortable using the N-word in that way around a Black person, and yet they aren’t even thinking about it around me because I’m white. I don’t think that white people should ever use the N-word for any reason, and these days I tell all the white people I know never to use that word around me, regardless of the context they are using it in. In my mind, any form of private white use of the N-word is a form of white supremacist white bonding that is inherently demeaning and exclusionary to people of color.

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 18:22:09 mary burrell

Looks like I opened up a nasty can of worms. That truly was not my intention. The topic is about the N-word. the example of Laura Schlessinger and the Black woman caller were just examples of the N-word being used. Wow! didn’t mean for to upset or offend anyone. But the incident with radio personality did happen.

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 18:23:18 mary burrell

*Didn’t mean to offend or get anyone upset. Wow!

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 18:28:47 mary burrell

@ Shanda: The topic is about the use of the N-word. I don’t know what your issue is. I was sympathizing with the black woman caller being married to her racist husband.

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 18:40:31 resw77

@ Kushite Prince

““Niger” is a masculine derivative of the ancient Egyptian word “Ngu,” which means Serpent King.”

Not so. “Niger” comes from Ptolemy’s description of two great West African rivers, the Gir and the Ni-Gir.

This is not to be confused with the Latin word “niger” which precedes the Spanish and Portuguese word “negro” which means black.

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 19:21:04 Shanda

Mary Burrell, my response was directed to Sondis and another commenter who felt the need bash black women who date/marry white men, and refusing to look at black men who date white women and their relationships.

What exactly is YOUR issue, Mary?

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 19:29:45 mary burrell

@ Shanda: My mistake. Sorry about that. I have no issue. Glad you cleared that up. Have a good evening.

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 20:09:37 Why?

We know that non-black people are big consumers of rap music. We know the n-word is frequently in rap/hip hop lyrics. My question is: when these consumers and fans sing along to their favorite rap songs are they supposed to not say the n-word when it pops up in the song?

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 20:12:50 Why?

“Niger” is a masculine derivative of the ancient Egyptian word “Ngu,” which means Serpent King.”

Interesting. How is that pronounced? In Sanskrit the word for serpent is naag.

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 20:22:51 Becca

I listen to rap. I’m white. I don’t find it that hard to not say the n-word when I’m listening to a song that has that word in it.

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 20:53:05 Adeen

I don’t like the n word at all. Why don’t people realize that it is a bad word that denigrates Black people? It makes me sad that my own people use the n word. And it is worse among my age group because they use the n word without knowing the history of the word.

@Becca

I am a young Black woman and I don’t listen to Rap at all. I listen to Classic Rock and R&B and MJ. I stopped listening to Rap when 2 Chainz, Shitty Minaj, Frake AND YMCMB came along and ruined Rap for good. Why listen to a type of music that degrades women and always uses the n word?

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 21:49:08 Why?

Becca

I listen to rap. I’m white. I don’t find it that hard to not say the n-word when I’m listening to a song that has that word in it.
___

Interesting. So what do you do when you are singing along to a song and the n-word pops up? Stop singing along at that point?

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 21:51:56 Rick Marauderdad Buddhuu Cadger

Why the hell would anyone want to reclaim that word? Trying to do so, IMHO, muddies a lot of water and courts confusion. Black people don’t agree about it, white people will misunderstand it (sometimes wilfully).

It’s not like people who try to reclaim the swastika from nazi fools. That symbol had a glorious history before that evil bastard stole it and rubbed it in the dirt. But was there ever a time when the N word was anything but insulting? Why the hell would you want to use it at all? When I hear a black person use the term it makes me uncomfortable (but not as much as when I hear a white using it). I suppose there will be a few amateur psychologists who will say that’s because I’m white and I’m afraid to hear black people reclaiming power over previously oppressive vocabulary. Whatever – personally, I think it just makes me uncomfortable because it sounds stupid and undignified. Kind of as if the word has stuck.

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 21:54:01 Becca

Adeen

I feel that most of the rap I like to listen to is not particularly degrading to women, no more than rock music is anyway. Some of the artists I like are Dead Prez, Salt-N-Pepa, Public Enemy, Missy Elliott, Blue Scholars, and the Roots. Basically stuff that is political or a little more “alternative.” Some of them still use the n-word at times. I don’t feel it’s my place as a white person to have an opinion on Black people’s use of the n-word though.

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 21:54:59 Becca

@ Why?

“Interesting. So what do you do when you are singing along to a song and the n-word pops up? Stop singing along at that point?”

Yes.

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 22:04:57 Becca

@Rick

“But was there ever a time when the N word was anything but insulting? Why the hell would you want to use it at all?”

Some Black people want to reclaim the word and give it a positive meaning so as to reduce some of the sting the word has. It’s a bit similar to how I and a lot of other lesbians proudly identify as “dykes”. . .even though before us reclaiming it that word had never been anything but a slur. I understand that there is debate among Black folks about the the use of the word within their community. I respect both sides of the debate and don’t think it’s my place as a white person to enter an opinion on a matter that has nothing to do with me. Black people are the targets of the n-word and the hatred behind it, and it is up to them to decide whether it is ever acceptable to say the word or not. This should not confuse white people. It’s really pretty simple. White people have privilege in this white supremacist society that Blacks don’t have. Whites should never for any reason use a word that Black people view as hateful and as a grave affront to their dignity. I believe that the “Black people use it, too” coming from whites is nothing but racist deflection.

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 22:05:40 Adeen

@Becca

I thought you liked modern day Rap like 2 Chainz. Thanks for clearing it up for me. I only like old school Rap music.

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 22:06:02 Adeen

And there is some Rock music I hate too.

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 22:08:40 Why?

I object to the use of the n-word, even in the “reclaimed” sense on the same grounds I object to the use of the word “slut” even now as ” 3rd wave sex positive feminists” are “reclaiming” it.

Both words have horrible histories and way too much baggage to “reclaim”.

Plus, on a metaphysical and philosophical level, our words form our thoughts or inner life. Our thoughts form our habits. Our habits form are behavior. Our behavior forms our character.

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 22:12:43 mary burrell

@ Becca: I am not gay but I think words that slur the LGBT community are equally damaging. I don’t like referring to gay males as the f-word. I don’t like calling lesbian women dykes. I think those are horrible words as well. It is hate speech.

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 22:12:50 qwerty

“But many of my white friends, even people who are declared anti-racists, will still say the N-word when referring to it, as in: “I watched this movie where all the characters kept saying “n****r.” And to me that’s still racist. I doubt they would be comfortable using the N-word in that way around a Black person, and yet they aren’t even thinking about it around me because I’m white. I don’t think that white people should ever use the N-word for any reason, and these days I tell all the white people I know never to use that word around me, regardless of the context they are using it in. In my mind, any form of private white use of the N-word is a form of white supremacist white bonding that is inherently demeaning and exclusionary to people of color.”

Should The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn be simply removed from library shelves or should copies be made that insert a code word or literally “n-word” in place of the word to which we are referring?

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 22:16:39 qwerty

“Plus, on a metaphysical and philosophical level, our words form our thoughts or inner life.”

This is a highly disputed concept that is pushed by some linguists et al. that are heavily involved in language studies (and likely want to trumpet the importance of their field) and also by those that are interested in modifying the words people use and need a justification.

Steven Pinker, a world famous expert in several fields including linguistics and studied under Noam Chomsky and is now holding a chair at Harvard U., highly disputes that language controls thought. It has its influence sure, but he basically demolishes the general idea. If you look for you, you can find him give some lectures on this. It is also included in a book of his.

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 22:18:30 Becca

“Becca, do you think there should be different sets of behavior for people based upon skin color?”

Yes, I do think there should be different sets of behavior for people based on race. People of color should do whatever they need to survive in this racist society. This is not what white people need to be doing because white people are not harmed by our racist society, instead we benefit from it. White people should rather focus on doing whatever we can to be useful to people of color in their fight about racist oppression. People of color determine what it is we can do that would be of useful to them. Our job is to listen to them and then do it.

This doesn’t mean I have an “inability to express an opinion on things the Black people do.” I’ve found a lot of fault in things I’ve witnessed individual Black people do. For example, I call Black people out on homophobia all the time. . .just as I call out homophobia whenever I see anyone of any race expressing it.

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 22:22:22 Becca

@Mary

“I don’t like calling lesbian women dykes. I think those are horrible words as well. It is hate speech.”

It’s probably wise of you to be careful about calling lesbians dykes considering that you are straight. Within the dyke community, though, the word is pretty far along in the process of reclamation, and it has a different meaning to us when it’s used by us than what straight people think the word means. There’s nothing wrong with being a dyke. We have Dyke Marches (that’s the name the marches go by) every June in every major city across the country that thousands of queer women participate in.

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 22:27:01 Origin

Adeen said:
“I don’t like the n word at all. Why don’t people realize that it is a bad word that denigrates Black people?”

It’s interesting that the world denigrate comes from a similar root as ‘n*****’ and is a verb meaning ‘to blacken’. There are some powerful negative associations to blackness in this culture. I understand why some people protest being called ‘black’ and would rather tick Hispanic (if afro-hispanic) or African on forms.

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 22:30:15 Why?

“Plus, on a metaphysical and philosophical level, our words form our thoughts or inner life.”

qwerty,
“This is a highly disputed concept that is pushed by some linguists et al. that are heavily involved in language studies (and likely want to trumpet the importance of their field) and also by those that are interested in modifying the words people use and need a justification.

Steven Pinker, a world famous expert in several fields including linguistics and studied under Noam Chomsky and is now holding a chair at Harvard U., highly disputes that language controls thought. It has its influence sure, but he basically demolishes the general idea. If you look for you, you can find him give some lectures on this. It is also included in a book of his.”
__________

I’m not a linguist. I specifically stated “on a metaphysical and philosophical level”, not “linguistic level.”

I strive to fill my mind space only with thoughts and words that increase my empathy, compassion and which empower me to culturally refine myself.

N*gg*r, n*gga, slut, b*tch, ho, etc do not do this FOR ME.

I practice mindfulness in action, word and speech.

I am extremely careful about what I allow into my sense perception; the images I subject myself to, the music I subject myself to, the concepts I subject myself to and the over all content I allow into my “space”.

Why?

Because I know once thought, a thought cannot be un-thought.

A mind image, once visualized, cannot be un-visualized.

[ Interesting and appropos for my above comment and this entire topic. I just posted it without the * in place of letters in the above n-words and other slurs. And it got stuck in moderation. So I edited myself and put the *’s there and am re-posting. Seems I’m not the only one who doesn’t want to subject herself to such language, such thoughts and such visualizations, and hence emotions.]

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 22:30:52 mary burrell

@ Becca: Thanks for the enlightenment. We can all learn from each other.

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 22:45:07 Becca

@Mary

You’re welcome!! Glad I could share some knowledge! 🙂

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 23:07:55 Becca

“qwerty, Becca sounds like your typical politically correct liberal western white person.”

Oh and by the way, I’m not a liberal. John Locke (who was racist) and Thomas Jefferson (who was a slave-owner and a rapist) were liberals. I’m a radical leftist.

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 23:12:50 qwerty

“I’m not a linguist. I specifically stated “on a metaphysical and philosophical level”, not “linguistic level.””

I knew what you meant. Pinker dissected the idea that linguistics and language is the substrate of our thoughts. It has an influence, but thinking is much deeper than language. I was disagreeing with the depth of your assertion.

“Because I know once thought, a thought cannot be un-thought.”

I also guard myself against extreme violence and other gratuity. Where you and I part way is that I am not afraid to ponder and consider the truth value of (nearly) any thought.

For instance, I am NOT willing to ponder that cannibalism in humans is a good idea, simply because it is wrong on its face and gross. However, I am willing to ponder questions such as “are there genetic differences between men and women that cause differences in behavior?”.

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 23:23:30 Solesearch

Becca,

“It’s probably wise of you to be careful about calling lesbians dykes considering that you are straight. Within the dyke community, though, the word is pretty far along in the process of reclamation, and it has a different meaning to us when it’s used by us than what straight people think the word means.”

If it is so far along then why can’t Mary or non-lesbians use the word? What makes it so far along in the reclamation process? What is the reclamation process?

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on Sat Jun 29th 2013 at 23:36:32 Solesearch

Becca,

“And yes, I support Black people doing what they need to survive, so long as they are not oppressing any other marginalized group in the process.”

So if they are oppressing themselves you support that? Black men routinely oppress black women. Do you support that?

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on Sun Jun 30th 2013 at 00:06:06 Awake BW

I usually stay out of “n-word discussions”. But sometimes I don’t. I will tell you all this. I don’t give a flying who uses that word. I could have that said to my face every time I stepped out of my front door, and I still would not give a flying.

If people want to reclaim something, or use it in their music, art or poetry I don’t give a flying. Because whatever hurts me and puts me down, and stops me in my tracks is the thing I let do that to me. I simply don’t give the n-word any power over me or those people who use it, or those white people who are just dying to use it either. And to those latter folks, I say go ahead. Say n-word all day long. Let it fly free. Do you booboo.

Because you know what? I got bigger fish to fry. I have to figure out how Black people are going to remain the voting bloc force that we were in the last two general elections after the shenanigans to the VRA that SCOTUS just got through doing.

I gotta try to figure out how to dismantle the American Rape Culture and at the same time figure how to tear down the school-to-prison pipeline. Miss me with all this fuss and worry and talk about the n-word, meanwhile DWB and Stop&Frisk and the Black body count in Chicago are still going on as usual.

I hear-by and henceforth give anyone and everyone permission to say the n-word that wants to say it. Go for it. Knock yourselves out. With the power invested in me by the Black Woman Conclave of the Universe you are duly decreed to n-word n-word until the cows come home.

Now can we get on with stuff thats really real and needs attention else we die?

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on Sun Jun 30th 2013 at 00:07:31 Becca

Hey Solesearch,

“So if they are oppressing themselves you support that? Black men routinely oppress black women. Do you support that?”

No. I don’t support anything that oppresses women because I’m a woman, and I stand in solidarity with other women. If Black people have internalized racism, though, I don’t believe I as a white people am qualified to critique that. I’m racist myself and if I want to fight racism and be most effective, it seems to me, I should deal with my own people: racist white people. What do you think? Does that sound tactically appropriate in your opinion?

“If it is so far along then why can’t Mary or non-lesbians use the word? What makes it so far along in the reclamation process? What is the reclamation process?”

Personally, I don’t have a problem with non-lesbians referring to me as a dyke if they are doing it in a neutral or a positive way. I was just saying that if Mary as a straight woman did that all the time, it’s likely some lesbians would get offended. So I understand why she doesn’t want to use the word.

“Dyke” is pretty far along in the reclamation process because, in many regions, the main connotations of the term are now neutral or positive. In my neighborhood I talk to way more people who are using the word positively rather than negatively. When I think about the word, therefore, I’m more likely to think about the new positive meaning than the old pejorative meaning.

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on Sun Jun 30th 2013 at 00:34:10 abagond

I deleted some off-topic comments by Becca, Solesearch, Why and Qwerty.

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on Sun Jun 30th 2013 at 00:38:50 Becca

Thank you, abagond. And I’m sorry that I contributed to the off-topic discussion.

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on Sun Jun 30th 2013 at 02:06:35 Adeen

@Becca

Do you approve of the use of the n word? Do you know what it means since it was Caucasians who made up the word? I don’t. I don’t see why Blacks use a word that denigrates them. And Whites use it a lot too.

I have been called the n word many times and most of it was by Whites living in the small, racist town where I live. I don’t like the n word and I don’t want it used around me. People my age look at me as if I was crazy just because I wouldn’t use such a nasty word.

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on Sun Jun 30th 2013 at 02:18:59 Solesearch

Becca, do I think that is tactically appropriate? I’m not sure. In my first or second statement on this post I wondered if white people were further along in rejecting racism than black people because they had so many more people working towards the edification of white folks in that area.

We need to attack racism from both ends yet most of the dismantling is focused on white folks.

White people have more resources for doing so, more institutions. Black people have few resources and I’d say no institutions for combating racism. So I’d say no, it doesn’t seem tactically appropriate.

I don’t think “dyke” is really that far along in the reclamation process(whatever that is) because I don’t think most use by non-lesbians would be positive or neutral. And as you stated some lesbians are still offended by its use.

Also you stated that because of reclamation you are more likely to think of the positive connotations and not the old negative ones. That’s the main reason I’m against the reclamation of the n-word. I don’t want to erase the meaning, I don’t want people to forget the negative things that happened in our past especially when they haven’t taken the time to learn from them.

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on Sun Jun 30th 2013 at 02:36:36 Becca

@Adeen

I strongly, strongly disapprove of white people using the n-word. When it comes to Black people using the n-word though, I really don’t have an opinion. I don’t want to put myself in a position of telling Black people what to say or not say. It doesn’t seem to me that it has ever led to good things when white folks have tried to do that.

And I’m really appalled that so many people have said that word around you, Adeen. I think that’s pretty awful that people use that word around you and won’t respect your wishes when you say you don’t want to be around it.

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on Sun Jun 30th 2013 at 02:45:47 Becca

@Solesearch

“We need to attack racism from both ends yet most of the dismantling is focused on white folks.”

This is an interesting point, Solesearch. I honestly have no idea how I personally could help Black people overcome their internalized racism though. Should I lecture them, telling them not to say the n-word? I don’t see how I could do this without upholding white supremacy myself. As a white person, I’m barely able to keep my own racism in line much of the time. I certainly don’t think I have the knowledge or qualifications to teach BLACK people anything about racism. That’s why I focus on other white folks. . .because I actually AM more knowledgeable about racism than most of them. But in my entire life, I’ve still learned less about racism than most Black folks learn in a single day.

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on Sun Jun 30th 2013 at 03:54:35 Liz

@Mary burrell I meant “can” as in they do and no one stops them. I don’t think it is okay for me or any other white person to use that word.

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on Sun Jun 30th 2013 at 04:09:05 Shanda

Mary Burrell, please excuse my harshness as well, as it was misguided towards you. Have a good evening.

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on Sun Jun 30th 2013 at 04:51:16 King of Trouble

I remember as a kid if I used it I used it with the intent to hurt. I rarely used it but the N word was a dividing line. You call me an Oreo and push me down stairs and spit on me. I have little love for you, and the word crawled out scratching my throat as it took form. It was a sign that I threw off the gloves. I was going to ignore you any more, I was going to find something and make sure you left me alone. People who knew me then know how off and horrible the word sounds coming out of my mouth. I rarely used it because of ignorantly evil it was. Yet, I did have my crossing point and since I am not a Saint, or Holy Man I did push back. I hope my son will never come to that point. Bloody knuckles and broken bats aside the word is never going to be a good point. The few whites who have tried to use it on me got the full force of me laughing at them. That is all they got if all you have if that is the full extent of your bravado then I will guffaw in your general area.
Having seen some evil up close and personal I will never let you see if the word shakes me or not.

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on Sun Jun 30th 2013 at 04:51:17 V.a.g.a.b.o.n.d

@Becca He probably meant that black people should help other black people to overcome internalized racism, not that white people should try to lecture black people about racism in the black community. I mean, how could we even feasibly do that? You say you know more about racism than most whites, but even if you are as enlightened as you claim to be, as a white woman you cannot by definition have first-hand experience with internalized anti-black racism. So why would you even worry about whether you have some sort of “duty” to lecture black people about their use of a historically anti-black word? That would be kind of like me telling you how you should describe women who are attracted to other women. I see that you like to show how “progressive” you are, but come on… lecturing black people about their use of the n-word would just make you seem pretentious and annoying. Or at least, I cannot imagine a situation where it would not be deemed as such. Plus, how would you even know whether a black person’s use of the n-word was an instance of internalized racism or simply an attempt to reclaim the word? You would definitely be entering into a social situation with a high potential for awkwardness and hurt feelings.

In regard to another discussion you were having, I am wondering just out of curiosity: in what context would it be appropriate for a straight person to use the term “d*ke,” in your opinion? Are there some lesbians who prefer to be referred to in this manner, even by straight people?

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on Sun Jun 30th 2013 at 07:22:32 qwerty

“Should I lecture them, telling them not to say the n-word? I don’t see how I could do this without upholding white supremacy myself. ”

If you are specifically asked about it, then you expressing a well-meaning opinion is not upholding white supremacy. I’m not sure how you feel that society can progress while people hold their cards incredibly tight to their chest, even in the presence of well-meaning people that are not convinced of your strong claims.

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on Sun Jun 30th 2013 at 07:27:25 qwerty

“As a white person, I’m barely able to keep my own racism in line much of the time.”

This is odd to me. Do radical leftists just want to admit to racism as a way to indict all others as being similar? I just don’t buy racism as being innate and a constant sense of guilt for you. My combat against racism as as follows: I know that melanin concentration in ones skin does not have an influence on behavior or ability. Otherwise, when I come back from a tanning bed I should act and think differently, but I don’t. Therefore, it is odd that once you’ve had all these realizations and you are so enlightened that you are still struggling with this. It is simple. Make a logical case for why racism is not logically correct, and then use your logical mind to control your emotions and reactions. It is actually not hard to do, especially if you are committed fully to believing in what is rational and logical.

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on Sun Jun 30th 2013 at 08:52:47 Tilmatar

I’d be interested to hear your thoughts on the recent black genocide in Libya.

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on Sun Jun 30th 2013 at 09:02:17 Solesearch

Becca,

“Should I lecture them, telling them not to say the n-word? I don’t see how I could do this without upholding white supremacy myself. As a white person, I’m barely able to keep my own racism in line much of the time. I certainly don’t think I have the knowledge or qualifications to teach BLACK people anything about racism. ”

A lecture might not be best way to go about it. I wouldn’t tell someone not to say it, but I’d tell them why I think it is racist. Then they can do whatever they want with that information.

Black people experience racism but the average black person doesn’t understand it. They don’t know it’s history or their own. They don’t have the ideas or vocabulary to explain it. They don’t recognize all the forms it takes or what feeds it.

I think your mindset contributes to racism not being discussed in the classroom or in mixed settings.

I don’t think it is racist for a white woman to point out how colorism is wrong. Or that embracing the n-word is just a misguided attempt to spare yourself some pain which hasn’t worked.

The idea that the average black person is equipped to discuss and end racism in whatever form is just not true.

I believe an argument can be made for white people to stay out of it, a Malcolm X styled argument but since we have embraced integration and forsaken black ran institutions I don’t think that argument is valid.

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on Sun Jun 30th 2013 at 09:31:54 Rick Marauderdad Buddhuu Cadger

“As a white person, I’m barely able to keep my own racism in line much of the time.”

A brave statement. It made me blink.

I know a couple of people who have admitted the same thing, The “racist” tics they display (stereotyping, struggling not to use racist language in situations of conflict with non-white people such as road-rage incidents etc) seem to be conditioned behaviours more than deliberate, considered ones. These people recognise the habits ingrained by being brought up by racist parents in racist communities, and they *want* to have nothing to do with them. To me, their fight against those tendencies is, in some respects, analogous to a smoker’s fight against their destructive habit. Surely that is some small degree of individual progress.

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on Sun Jun 30th 2013 at 09:46:11 Mz. Nikita

While my family is multicultural, I myself do not proclaim to be 100% Asian decent-however, I have dated/been friends with etc, folks from countries of this diaspora, and will tell that (at least in Cali) there are many, many, folks of this continent who DO use the “nigga” term every day. And it is not just them either, but whites, blacks, latinos/Latinas etc, and they use towards each other just as easily as breathing. I am not shocked (having traveled extensively, and having lived in the Bay for quite awhile) but it is always annoying to me, just as much as it is from any of my POC (or otherwise) using this term..

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on Sun Jun 30th 2013 at 09:48:55 Mz. Nikita

..Nice and eye-grabbing pix form JWU (Johnson & Wales) by the way, I’ve eaten food from their culinary students, and it really rocks-some of the best grub in the nation!

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on Sun Jun 30th 2013 at 10:44:44 abagond

@ Qwerty

I deleted two more of your comments as being off-topic. Everyone else got the message from my last round of deletions, but not you. Please remain on topic. If you do not want to talk about the N-word and related topics, then go to the Open Thread.

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on Sun Jun 30th 2013 at 11:20:09 biff

This is a word I wish would just go away. It’s not even comparable with the “c” word or “f” word, since those words, if spoken in private, are never career ending in and of themselves.. I think a lot of whites are pissed off at the double standard. So blacks can use the synonym of biscuit beginning with c to describe white people (would using that word put me in automatic moderation here?) as much as they want because it can never be as bad as the “n” word. I heard it during my first year of college (the speaker didn’t know I was there), and no one reacted negatively–can’t imagine the crap that would have gone down if someone dropped the “n” word like that at an Ivy…

Anyway, as for Ms. Deen, I have very limited sympathy. Some people on the right who are tired of witch hunts based on something someone said once in private are backing her up, probably without full knowledge of the situation. She is a liberal who campaigned for Barack and was a personal friend of Michelle (notice how they have stood beside her–lolz). She supported the fascism that was her undoing.

Anyway, if it is just something she used in a private a few times a long time ago, I would think that it wouldn’t be a terminable offense, but I have to say her comments re: bunches of black boys at a wedding are just bizarre and offensive (but note that if she really hated black people like KKK or Nazi style, she wouldn’t want them anywhere near her…, so, she’s just weird southern think…).

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on Sun Jun 30th 2013 at 14:26:32 mary burrell

I went to see Eddie Murphy in concert many years ago,Paul Mooney was the opening act. In his stand-up comedy, the whole routine was how he liked saying the N-word. The whole routine was N-word, N-word. It make me uncomfortable and I saw the white people next to me were uncomfortable and were hesitant to laugh. Now that I remember all of that, When I go to the movies with my friend who is white and jewish it makes her uncomfortable as well. To me it’s just a ugly, nasty word and needs to die. But some people say but what about art, and other mediums what should we do about that? Art is truth and art is ugly so this word is in the dialough of films and in books. Mark Twain used this word a lot. I don’t like censoring things,this is where it gets tricky. It is just a troublesome word and we don’t know what to do with it.

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on Sun Jun 30th 2013 at 14:27:19 mary burrell

*It made me uncomfortable*

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on Sun Jun 30th 2013 at 17:44:42 Why?

“But some people say but what about art, and other mediums what should we do about that? Art is truth and art is ugly so this word is in the dialough of films and in books. Mark Twain used this word a lot. I don’t like censoring things,this is where it gets tricky. It is just a troublesome word and we don’t know what to do with it.”

Art reflects culture. Going forward if the overall culture evolves rather than devolves, that is, if we become collectively more refined rather than collectively more brutish and crass, the word will gradually disappear in our art without our having to censor anything.

However, culture reflects values. What are “American values” is the question we need to be asking.

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on Sun Jun 30th 2013 at 18:49:18 Origin

” I think a lot of whites are pissed off at the double standard. So blacks can use the synonym of biscuit beginning with c to describe white people (would using that word put me in automatic moderation here?) as much as they want because it can never be as bad as the “n” word.”

There is a double standard because racism, by it’s very nature, is a double standard and we live in a centuries-old racist society. It fascinates me that whites are so pissed off that they can’t use a hurtful word and that no slur really affects them. Can you imagine if they faced police profiling, or housing discrimination?

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on Sun Jun 30th 2013 at 19:09:09 mary burrell

@ why; Thanks for trying to understand what I was trying to convey in my comment.

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on Sun Jun 30th 2013 at 19:38:23 qwerty

I am always queasy when social justice warriors (SJWs) critique art.

SJWs very often take the most superficial meaning or what they feel (their own subjective meaning) from a work of art, and then act as if the art should not have been produced based upon either of these. It is groan worthy very often.

In regards to the N-word, there are obviously ways this word could be used by an artist to critique racism and show it as being ugly. That meaning may not be obvious to a SJW at first. I think all art and fiction should be left alone so long as its production does not necessitate a crime being committed. There are much bigger fish to fry than what someone might possibly get out of a sitcom scenario if they were ultra-sensitive and searching, and the whole exercise assumes you understand what the artist meant and how others will take the art.

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on Sun Jun 30th 2013 at 20:30:36 On “Nigger” and Other Mis-Understood Epithets…. | Truth60

[…] The n-word (abagond.wordpress.com) […]

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on Sun Jun 30th 2013 at 20:32:10 Solesearch

” I think all art and fiction should be left alone so long as its production does not necessitate a crime being committed. There are much bigger fish to fry than what someone might possibly get out of a sitcom scenario if they were ultra-sensitive and searching, and the whole exercise assumes you understand what the artist meant and how others will take the art.”

So we should just forgo any critical analysis of art? What are we supposed to do with it?

Most artists are trying to say something about society with their work. A lot of times they end up saying a lot more than they intended. Either way they want it discussed.

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on Sun Jun 30th 2013 at 20:36:30 Linda

Good post, Abagond!

All I can say is that this word for black people is a motivator and an instant bond maker.

This is the one world that will motivate black/brown people who are strangers to come together as one (foreign and American) to beat the h’ll out of a white person who had to the balls to say it out loud! 🙂

I have no respect for anyone black who uses this word, especially if they’re American. I’ve checked many young black men for using this word around me.

I don’t know why hip-hop artist get a pass, their ignorant a’ses are the main one’s setting back all the hard work of their parents and grandparents in America.

and as I’ve said before, they’ve given the “global” green light to a new generation of white people to say and sing “n’ger” — just like their booty-shake video girls have given white /everyone else the green light to call black women “ho’s” (That’s why Don Imus was looking all confused)

People follow by example and it’s going to be up to black people to start setting it… it’s kind of crazy to expect white people to just “say No” — especially if they come from a environment like Paula Deen, where this word is spoken on the regular — can’t expect a crack addict to just walk away from the crack pipe.

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on Sun Jun 30th 2013 at 20:37:17 Linda

correction: one word that will motive

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on Sun Jun 30th 2013 at 20:44:13 Randy

acj13:

How come no one is mad at the gays for not letting heterosexuals use the f-word?

In my observation, gay people tend use the f-word with significantly less frequency than black people tend use the n-word, among those who use those words at all.

The desire to reclaim a word makes it no less vulgar, and it’s quite disappointing to hear the n-word spoken in public and at volume. Subtract ill-mannered use of coarse language in non-private spaces and I would guess that much of the controversy would evaporate.

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on Sun Jun 30th 2013 at 21:29:13 qwerty

Good point, solesearch. I am all for discussion. But I like it when the discussants realize that it is their own interpretation, could be wrong, and do not see everything as related to their own hobby horse. I suppose I am just against bad, one-sided critiques that speak in bold, declarative sentences. Also, people need to realize that the purpose of art is not necessarily to move us closer to utopia by applying the social critique with which they concur.

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on Mon Jul 1st 2013 at 02:20:00 sondis

I can bet you a steak dinner, that white people are talking about black people as a result of a rich white woman that got in trouble, because of a law suit that was files by another white woman, ( Lisa Jackson ) which revealed miss Deen’s use of the “N” word in the past.

I already see it on all the news sites and stations, turning the whole conversation from what they should be talking about, Miss Deen’s use of a racial slur, into why white people can’t use the “N” word and black people can and how its black people’s fault that white people use it, because so my rappers and everyday black people use to, towards each other.

I’m going to explain how this argument falls, flat on its face.

For white people to use such ridiculous logic on why they should be able to use the “N” word, simply because black people use and or condone it, makes no sense, being that:

There are millions of black people that do not use or condone the use of the “N” word as a term of endearment, within the black community, not to mention from white people. So how can white people justify, using black people as an scapegoat, when there is as much outrage over the use of the “N” word from within the black community, itself?

I mean, its not there has even been a consensus done, within the black community on how many people use and approve of the, “N” words use for white people to try and gauge the level of outrage.

White people totally ignore this and go based off rappers and some black people who use it, within an earshot of them.

what’s going on here is typical of how white people, view and think of black people. We are always seen as a collective body, we are never seen as, individuals.

To white people, Black people can’t think independent of other blacks, therefore they apply every stereotype to every single black person in America.

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on Mon Jul 1st 2013 at 02:26:45 Becca

Thanks for your response to me, Solesearch. It makes a lot of sense to me, and I’m definitely going to be thinking over you’ve said.

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on Mon Jul 1st 2013 at 06:00:59 Why?

“The desire to reclaim a word makes it no less vulgar, and it’s quite disappointing to hear the n-word spoken in public and at volume. Subtract ill-mannered use of coarse language in non-private spaces and I would guess that much of the controversy would evaporate.”

Tell me about it! Its the de-evolvement of American civic society.

Not just the n-word but other crass language is increasingly used in public and people are wearing t-shirts with crass phrases blazed across them. Even teens. Heck even little kids. I guess their (most likely single) parents think its funny or “cute” or something.

American culture in general is becoming very low class.

I can’t bear it any longer pulling up to a stop light and the car next to me has its windows down loud blasting some ignorant, crass, low class garbage noise pollution passing as “music”.

This cultures sucks!

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on Mon Jul 1st 2013 at 07:58:48 abagond

In my experience it is mainly a word used by white people, especially young whites, and by black comedians and rappers. Most black people I know in real life rarely if ever use it. The word was used against me when I was young, so I have little love for it. I think it is too loaded with racist poison for anyone of any sense of any race to want to use it.

I think I understand the logic behind the N-Word Reclamation Project – sometimes when the majority culture shames you about something, you have to own it and take pride in it as a mental health measure. That WORKS with natural hair, say, but with the N-word it is too easy to slip into internalized racism.

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on Mon Jul 1st 2013 at 14:36:15 jefe

nigra (possibly worse than “n*gger” itself)

I remember hearing this word from my maternal grandparents in Alabama when I was a child.

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on Mon Jul 1st 2013 at 16:40:50 jefe

I am really glad that there is a national conversation about this now. We need to get this out in the open and sort this out as a country.

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on Mon Jul 1st 2013 at 19:49:29 solesearch

Becca, no problem. I’m still trying to figure it out myself.

Abagond, young black people use it also.

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on Mon Jul 1st 2013 at 20:03:10 lifelearner

I can’t stand the N word. I don’t use it or any derivatives of it. Although my siblings will use it regularly ( with the a on the end). Still same difference in my eye.

The ones that use the N word, shows me more of where they are mentally then anything else.

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on Mon Jul 1st 2013 at 20:46:07 solesearch

Jefe, what do you mean by “sort it out”?

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on Mon Jul 1st 2013 at 21:52:58 jefe

I mean a sustainable solution, or at least a “work in progress” that is heading toward some sustainable solution. I always feel that progress towards a more sustainable and satisfactory equilibrium is hampered as long as people refuse to discuss the situation and how it relates to the past.

And refusing to discuss the n-word, its history and abuses is not helping the situation.

This is one reason I don’t think about becoming ensconced back into US society anytime soon.

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on Mon Jul 1st 2013 at 23:40:46 kudjoe76

N-word is more offensive to me than the actual word itself. I don’tthinkblacks have to reclaim the word. It’s always been ours. Also there is no etymology for the word in Latin. The originalword for black in Latin was/is Moreno, mauri….

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on Tue Jul 2nd 2013 at 00:31:59 Why?

“The ones that use the N word, shows me more of where they are mentally then anything else.”

This. Very uncultured, very degrading and very low class mentality.

The music that uses the word, along with b*tch, ho and other foul words, reflects the degraded mentality and culture that the people who write it, sing it, produce it and promote it AND purchase it all come from.

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on Tue Jul 2nd 2013 at 02:14:23 Fiamma

Growing up I never heard the “N-word” used by those around me nowhere near as often as it is assumed by others that Blacks make use the word. It was considered profanity in my household. On occasion, though, I did hear the husband (himself a very dark-skinned man) of one of my aunts refer to other Blacks (but never himself) as “spooks” – a word which just sounded far worse to my ears than “N” ever did, as “N” was just a meaningless insult as far as I was concerned. Then later I can recall wondering, after hearing the father on an old rerun of “Good Times” refer to a Black person as a “spook”, if that word was even considered a racial slur at all (and, of course, there’s also that novel “The Spook Who Sat By the Door”)….

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on Tue Jul 2nd 2013 at 02:30:21 phoebeprunelle

Most black people I know in real life rarely if ever use it.

This has been my experience as well–even Black people living in lower income communities have enough dignity and class than some of these rappers and whites who want to have their “fair” usage of the now term of “endearment”.

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on Tue Jul 2nd 2013 at 09:39:50 Whitepride(Indian)

Fuck you black niggah agagond

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on Tue Jul 2nd 2013 at 09:49:34 abagond

^^ Ordinarily I kill comments like that, but I let it through since it is on-topic, however accidentally.

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on Tue Jul 2nd 2013 at 10:25:22 Cornlia

I’m just going to say this:

any word whatsoever that refers to “race” is not respectable. “Race” is not respectable. It is the fundamental tool of racism. Period.

As long as (and it’s gonna be for many more decades) we -all- use “race” to define ourselves and/or others, it is not going to be respectable.

I have NEVER used that word in my life except to refer to its use. I don’t even know why I would need to.

Who needs to ? Really ?

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on Tue Jul 2nd 2013 at 12:11:32 Randy

phoebeprunelle:

This has been my experience as well–even Black people living in lower income communities have enough dignity and class than some of these rappers and whites who want to have their “fair” usage of the now term of “endearment”.

It doesn’t surprise me to hear that.

However, it seems incongruous that music in which this language is commonly used appears to remain popular in these communities.

How can these observations be reconciled?

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on Tue Jul 2nd 2013 at 12:37:12 Kwamla

Words are essentially neutral. It is the “intention” behind their perceived usage which gives them any power. This is why the N-word (or any derogatory word for that matter) can have a different meaning depending on who it is “perceiving” its usage.

Intention and perception make all the difference here….

It would be difficult to perceive of a Black person using the N-word in a racist manner.

In the same way, it would be difficult to perceive of a white person using the N-word in a non-racist manner.

Although both states are possible we would have to look at their intentions to decide which was the real case.

But as the historical evidence (even in this blog) shows white people would lose on this count every time! Simply because the historical legacy of their intentions (racism) does not stand up any other way!

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on Tue Jul 2nd 2013 at 12:39:26 abagond

@ Randy

That music is mostly heard in white communities. Black degradation as white entertainment goes back to at least the late 1700s.

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on Tue Jul 2nd 2013 at 13:55:06 phoebeprunelle

However, it seems incongruous that music in which this language is commonly used appears to remain popular in these communities.

Yeah sure maybe you didn’t realize though. . .

The majority of consumers in this country for hip-hop are in fact White. It is White-owned corporations that own the record labels that produce hip-hop. It is predominantly White-owned music channels like MTV that push the ghettoized image of Blacks on America, Black and White, because of their vested interest in portraying Blacks as exotic, dangerous and appealing to White suburbanites with a lot of disposable income.

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on Tue Jul 2nd 2013 at 14:15:43 abagond

@ Randy

Please do not forget Tipper Gore, the Nice White Lady whose Parental Advisory label unleashed that flood of filth.

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on Tue Jul 2nd 2013 at 14:48:02 Randy

phoebeprunelle, the fact of: “the majority of consumers in this country for hip-hop are in fact White” still appears to leave my question unanswered.

The white population is several times greater than the black population, and has more disposable income. It’s not surprising that overall they comprise a larger pool of music consumers of most genres.

My type of question would be better related to popularity of hip-hop within black communities, in other words, the rate of consumption.

One might expect, per your observation that most black people understandably abhor the n-word, that the rate of listening to music which includes that language would be lowest in black communities.

While I’m certainly no expert in this matter, that has not been my observation.

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on Tue Jul 2nd 2013 at 15:30:50 phoebeprunelle

While I’m certainly no expert in this matter, that has not been my observation.

Then i think this is where you should take notes from Black people’s real experiences on this blog and beyond..

Beside myself, Abagond and Fiamma have stated clearly that the n-word was not a casual word used to describe any of our relatives or people in our immediate communities– in fact, i suspect this is the case for many Black folk throughout the States. Anytime anyone in my family said the n-word it was in a historical context to tell the younger people how it has been used.

As far as who consumes rap–i do not have exact figures–yet in my experience it only seems to be a sub group of Black youth who actually have an appreciation for it just like there is a sub group of Black youth that skateboard across their school campuses and a sub group of Black youth (particularly girls) that dress in goth clothing complete with purple or pink dyed hair.

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on Tue Jul 2nd 2013 at 18:32:58 solesearch

Randy,

It doesn’t surprise me to hear that.

However, it seems incongruous that music in which this language is commonly used appears to remain popular in these communities.

How can these observations be reconciled?

There are plenty of folks who listen to rap music, but don’t use the n-word themselves. Just as there are people who like watching “Breaking Bad”, but abhor drug dealing. A song is typically more than just one word. Just like “Breaking Bad” is more than drug dealing.

Music doesn’t take much to be considered popular. A rap artist is popular if he sells 300k copies in the U.S.

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on Wed Jul 3rd 2013 at 00:41:30 Sharina

The thing is that as I sit here in my car waiting for my husband to come out of the store…a car loaded with white teenage females drove by blasting that song f*ckin problems. Lol

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on Sun Jul 7th 2013 at 23:34:39 This ALSO Sums it Up…The Adamas 1681 Guitar, Race, Racism and Life | Praetori

[…] The N-word […]

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on Wed Jul 31st 2013 at 17:54:56 Obsession | Kemetix

[…] The n-word […]

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on Mon Oct 21st 2013 at 00:00:12 Why I Stopped Using The N Word

[…] stopped using nigga, or to be formal the N word, because I outgrew it and the word no longer suited the environment I was in. In 2007, I moved […]

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on Fri May 2nd 2014 at 18:42:58 jefe

Jeremy Clarkson from top gear found using it

“Eeny, meena, mina, mo, …”

(http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/video-watch-jeremy-clarkson-use-3481201)

Before they aired the video he said
“I did not use the n word. Never use it. The Mirror has gone way too far this time.”
After the video became public he is now
“begging for forgiveness”

Next I am waiting for him to say that he is not racist and does not see colour. But, to be fair, that version was the most popular version in the UK 50 years ago, even after it became taboo in the USA.

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on Sat May 3rd 2014 at 03:03:15 solesearch

jefe, not Top Gear! I liked that show. Haven’t watched it in a while though.

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on Sun Sep 6th 2015 at 19:45:53 talibmensah

In the 2015 film, Dope, the debate on the ‘N-word’ comes up. I am curious, if anyone else saw that film, what are your thoughts on the N-word?

If African-Americans in Dope let Latinos in Inglewood use the ‘N-word,’ is it okay for whites in Inglewood to say the ‘N-word’? I don’t want to spoil the film, but it’s an interesting scene.

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on Tue Mar 1st 2022 at 04:26:04 Paul Kruger

Our ancestors created this word for us, and then you stole it from us and told us we couldn’t use it. Lol. How would you like it if your ancestors created something for you, and then us Whites stole it and said it was only for us now? Pathetic.

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on Wed May 18th 2022 at 08:04:41 Paul Kruger

Imagine getting upset when someone of a different color says this word (when your people say it all the time in their rap music), but somehow, Whites are the fragile ones. LOL!

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