The incomplete list of children Obama has killed with drones

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The incomplete list of children Obama has killed with drones

Mon Dec 17th 2012 by abagond

On December 14th 2012 in Newtown, Connecticut, a well-to-do white town 100 km north of New York, 20 schoolchildren were gunned down. Within hours President Obama appeared on television:

The majority of those who died today were children – beautiful little kids between the ages of five and ten years old. They had their entire lives ahead of them – birthdays, graduations, weddings, kids of their own.

For the first time since his grandmother passed away four years ago, he teared up in public.

Two days later he named each one at the vigil:

Charlotte
Daniel
Olivia
Josephine
Ana
Dylan
Madeleine
Catherine
Chase
Jesse
James
Grace
Emilie
Jack
Noah
Caroline
Jessica
Benjamin
Avielle
Allison

He has yet to name or publicly tear up over the 96 (or more) children he has killed with his drones and cruise missiles – equal to almost five Newtowns. Killings which the United Nations calls “indiscriminate” and which his own computers call “bug splat”. He kills whoever he likes. Even Americans. He answers to no one.

No. One.

He uses drones to send Hellfire missiles not just at military targets but at houses, schools, restaurants and bakeries. He sends them during Ramadan. He sends them during funerals. He sends them after you have prayed. He sends them after you protest against drones. He sends them when you are with your grandmother. He sends them if you come to help the dying and wounded from the first missile, even if it is your father, mother, sister, brother, cousin.

Destruction after a drone strike on October 31st 2011

Obama does not publicly name the children he has killed. Apparently because their lives do not matter to him. Apparently because they are not beautiful. Apparently because they do not have birthdays. Apparently because they are not Real People Whose Lives Matter. Apparently because they are not well-to-do White American children.

Fatima, killed in a drone strike on May 21st 2010

Fortunately, about half the list of children Obama has killed can be pieced together from news reports:

date: name, age, nationality
2009-01-23: Azaz-ur-Rehman, 14, Pakistani
2009-02-14: Noor Syed, 8, Pakistani
2009-08-11: Ibad Ullah, teenager, Pakistani
2009-08-11: Mohammad Arif, teenager, Pakistani
2009-08-11: Abdul Qadeer, teenager, Pakistani
2009-08-11: Hazrat Ali, teenager, Pakistani
2009-08-21: Syed Wali Shah, 7, Pakistani
2009-08-21: Naeemullah,?, Pakistani
2009-08-21: Faizullah,?, Pakistani
2009-08-21: Rahima,?, Pakistani
2009-08-21: Shaista,?, Pakistani
2009-11-20: Sakeenullah, 15, Pakistani
2009-12-31: Zaenullah Khan, 17, Pakistani
2009-12-17: Nasser Mohammed Nasser, 6, Yemeni
2009-12-17: Arwa Mohammed Nasser, 4, Yemeni
2009-12-17: Fatima Mohammed Nasser, 2, Yemeni
2009-12-17: Afrah Ali Mohammed Nasser, 9, Yemeni
2009-12-17: Zayda Ali Mohammed Nasser, 7, Yemeni
2009-12-17: Hoda Ali Mohammed Nasser, 5, Yemeni
2009-12-17: Sheikha Ali Mohammed Nasser, 4, Yemeni
2009-12-17: Asmaa Abdullah Mokbel Salem Louqye, 9, Yemeni
2009-12-17: Salma Abdullah Mokbel Salem Louqye, 4, Yemeni
2009-12-17: Fatima Abdullah Mokbel Salem Louqye, 3, Yemeni
2009-12-17: Khadije Ali Mokbel Louqye, 1, Yemeni
2009-12-17: Hanaa Ali Mokbel Louqye, 6, Yemeni
2009-12-17: Mohammed Ali Mokbel Salem Louqye, 4, Yemeni
2009-12-17: Jawass Mokbel Salem Louqye, 15, Yemeni
2009-12-17: Sheikha Nasser Mahdi Ahmad Bouh, 3, Yemeni
2009-12-17: Soumaya Mohammed Saleh Mohammed, 9, Yemeni
2009-12-17: Shafika Mohammed Saleh Mohammed, 4, Yemeni
2009-12-17: Shafiq Mohammed Saleh Mohammed, 2, Yemeni
2010-01-03: Wajid Noor, 9, Pakistani
2010-01-08: Ayeesha, 3, Pakistani
2010-02-24: Naila, 10, Pakistani
2010-05-21: Fatima, ?, Pakistani
2010-05-21: Nisar, ?, Pakistani
2010-05-21: Naeem Khan, ?, Pakistani
2010-10-18: Naeem Ullah, 10, Pakistani
2011-06-15: Shahzada, ?, Pakistani
2011-10-14: Abdel-Rahman Anwar al-Awlaki, 16, American
2011-10-31: Tariq Aziz, 16, Pakistani
2011-10-31: Waheed, ?, Pakistani
2012-08-21: Osama Haqqani, 13, Pakistani
2012-09-02: Mabrook Mouqbal Al Qadari, 13, Yemeni
2012-09-02: Daolah Nasser, 10, Yemeni
2012-09-02: AbedalGhani Mohammed Mabkhout, 12, Yemeni

Source: The Bureau of Investigative Journalism: Drone Data

See also:

The perfect victim
The four kinds of humans
Obama is like a different person
Operation Pillar of Cloud: Israel continues to destroy Gaza
Black children Obama does not cry for:
Taliban
Ramadan

Posted in stuff | 338 Comments

338 Responses

on Tue Dec 18th 2012 at 02:32:08 deepdkchocolate

Umm what about all the black children? Why r u sharing Pakistani children? There are black children dying in DRC, Sudan,New Guinea and right here in the United Sates. Obama ain’t cry for Trayvon, even though he did make the comment that Trayvon could be his son, he ain’t crying for the hundreds of black children who have lost their lives to gun violence.

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on Tue Dec 18th 2012 at 03:06:04 Cornlia

“HE” killed them??

I think people are developing this strange attitude towards Obama that it is beginning to seem really really bizarre. Really.
The guy is the president of the USA. You haven’t got that yet?

What is everyone in the US waiting for to act politically towards the Congress and the White House instead of either looking at this man as a savior or as a traitor?
He is the president of the USA. He is not Jesus or the Devil. What did you expect? That he would change it all????? Transform the Pentagone? Come on now. This is the US of A! Do you REALLY believe you could even DREAM to have that power?

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on Tue Dec 18th 2012 at 03:07:13 Cornlia

I am beginning to think that Americans all live in their own little illusory world, waiting for “leaders” to act for them.

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on Tue Dec 18th 2012 at 03:18:27 Cornlia

deepdkchocolate, just imagine him expressing sorrow specifically directed at “black” children. I mean, you are American, right? Do you really believe that he could even survive that?
Did you listen to his speech? He did talk about them. Did you hear?

This is Amerikkka. This is no joke and he is “black”.

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on Tue Dec 18th 2012 at 03:37:59 Mbeti

looks like politcal crying to me – totally fake and oportunistic
no obama didn’t directly kill those foriegn people (adults as well as childern)
but he did give the orders and apparently has no problem giving them.

maybe I weak or weak minded or stupid or something but I thought All people are living things and human beings
and its bad to kill them for ANY reason.

And then there are innocents and guilty and childern ALL childern are by default innocent (and defenseless) so if you kill them its worse then adults.

The thing is as a human being I get tired of “White/albinic people are the only humans and only humans of value narrative”.

And no matter what they do to everyone else or themselves – they and especially their cherished albinism/whiteness NEVER gets questioned nor scurtized.

Its going to happen again and I’m supposed to care? I’m supposed to care now?

Actually I do care ,just not in the way some people would want or approve.

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on Tue Dec 18th 2012 at 03:45:19 brothawolf

American hypocrisy knows no bounds.

Let’s not forget Obama’s complete silence when black and brown children were murdered in high numbers in Chicago last Summer among other things.

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on Tue Dec 18th 2012 at 03:50:35 Y.

Those children’s parents can’t (couldn’t) get him re-elected, so they don’t matter to him 😦

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on Tue Dec 18th 2012 at 04:38:38 lifelearner

Sorry Abagond. I will agree to disagree on this post. Speaking as a mother of 3 children, this one cuts to close to home for me.

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on Tue Dec 18th 2012 at 05:21:21 Matari

Abagond

“OBAMA CRIES FOR WHITE CHILDREN”

1. This post makes EXCELLENT/truthful pointS.

2. However, it is my opinion that philosophically, or realistically, ALL working Americans – myself included – who pay taxes/fees/fares or any other monies/tributes which in some way underwrites the BEAST (Feds – Military-Industrial Complex) has as much complicity as Obama in the pain, suffering and deaths brought to those in foreign lands. Amerikkka’s war/killing machine could not exist/operate without OUR active participation in the system, whether intentional or not.

So I guess that makes us all hypocrites, correct!
We are simultaneously victims of, and participants in, WHITE SUPREMACY.

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on Tue Dec 18th 2012 at 05:39:55 Obama Needs to Cry for ALL The Children Around the World: Response to Abagond | Black! Not White Dipped in Chocolate

[…] a short response to Abagond’s post Obama Cries for White Children . His post is in reference to the tragic Connecticut Newtown Elementary School […]

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on Tue Dec 18th 2012 at 06:31:05 Linda

Come on now, Abagond, he did mention the black children in America except he had to do it in a VERY understated way…he stated that “Newtown could be any town in America” and that “children in other cities like Chigaco are suffering because of gun violence” …that’s as far as he can go but I am sure the gist of the message was understood.

Anyone who thinks Obama can come out and publically talk about or weep for black children (or muslim children) or about the interests and problems that black America cares about, is “drinking mad puss piss” as we say back home in Jamaica….

for Obama to be effective, he has to play white America’s game …as Matari eloquently put it– “the BEAST (Feds – Military-Industrial Complex)” and big corporations run this country — and we black/brown people better not forget that

as it is, Obama has to bob and weave just to not be a target while he’s in that office, God help him if he tried to derail the military and their objectives.

Anyway, I don’t like your title, very insensitive, children getting body parts blasted off is no joke (and yes, blasted off, inside and out, is what happened to their little 6 year old bodies after being hit with 3 to 11 rifle slugs) –

we all know what the deal is outside of US with their illegal wars but sorry, this post is disrespectful and not the time for this type of analysis…

but being that freedom of speech is a “God Given Right” according to white America, let me not interrupt

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on Tue Dec 18th 2012 at 07:36:02 Matari

“you just come too hard on some of your posts abagond…”

****************

While understanding your point peanut, my perspective is that Abagond sometimes does not come hard enough. Nonetheless I remember that he writes his blog primarily for himself. Writing for us is secondary – as it should be, imo.

I’m happy to realize that I agree with much/most (not all) of what he shares – and a lot of that is focusing a bright light on the simplicities, complexities, functions/dynamics of whiteness/racism/white supremacy.

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on Tue Dec 18th 2012 at 07:40:27 Yawn

*Clap clap*

And the downward spiral continues.

“And then there are innocents and guilty and childern ALL childern are by default innocent (and defenseless) so if you kill them its worse then adults.

The thing is as a human being I get tired of “White/albinic people are the only humans and only humans of value narrative”.

And no matter what they do to everyone else or themselves – they and especially their cherished albinism/whiteness NEVER gets questioned nor scurtized.

Its going to happen again and I’m supposed to care? I’m supposed to care now?

Actually I do care ,just not in the way some people would want or approve.”

I love the representation you give to the fabulous folks here, bravo. Don’t forget to take your meds now, you might go the way of negress.

@Peanut

I’m amazed, since this event has happened instead of doing what is right and condemning the unbelievable laws that allow any jack or jane to own assault rifles and commit massacres like this (and this one in particular because little children were the target) I get to see people making this about race, politics. really folks?

Children died and school personnel have died as well trying to protect these kids and all people can chime in are how x is of x race or x laws don’t affect the situation like my god some people make me sick.

Obama was speaking related to the tragedy that all americans should reflect on about and all Abagond can say is “he cried for white kids” REALLY?

I was moved to tears hearing about the teacher who hid her students in the closet and when the gunman came in she said they were in the gym and he killed her in cold blood, and moved on saving those kids. And a few days later I hear a grand old politician say “Hey, this was a terrible thing but we need to see that if the principle of the school was armed with an m4 assault rifle she could have stopped this before he even did greater damage by blowing off his head”

UN-FREAKEN-BELIEVABLE.

America, home of the brave and land of the free. Thank god I live in Canada, America is going, going, GONE and Americans just seem to not care.

And no, this is NOT about race, this is NOT about politics. If you think it is, you’re a horrible person (and Abagond, you’ve hit that point at the moment).

I’m not even religious but I really do hope some divine force fixes the unbelievable state the US is in.

If anyone feels offended by this, I really don’t care.

And Peanut I read your response post about it and It moved me. You expressed in greater detail that thought, that voice inside me that could not explain all the scenes and pictures and emotions I’ve felt and witnessed inside my mind about the hurdles we face before the world can get over our selfishness. If only everyone could see things and explain it the way you do.

“Children everywhere are so valuable.

So, it pains my heart to see children ANYWHERE in the world being cast aside, murdered and made into nameless targets on someone’s radar…when we kill that innocence, we kill ourselves off. There is no color line, there is no political line to be drawn when it comes to valuing a child’s life…and that is why it hurts me…and that is why we need to weep for all the children.

Maybe if we weep together enough, we’ll learn to comfort each other and if we can comfort each other, we’ll understand the sorrow that we share and if we understand the sorrow, we’ll see each other’s humanity…we’ll see ourselves in each other and if we can see ourselves in each other, then maybe we’ll stop the senseless violence…and we’ll stop allowing children everywhere to be victims of people who don’t value their humanity…which is the same as not valuing all of humanity. No more US missiles striking cities and towns and killing children, no more Newtowns, no more gang shootings that destroy children in their midst…none of that.”

Brought me to tears, you make my heart beat with the strength to believe today, tomorrow, or sometime in the future it will and must get better.

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on Tue Dec 18th 2012 at 08:37:43 tulio

I don’t see why the title chosen was necessary. If Mitt Romney were president and was shed a tear for those kids, nobody would think a thing of it. But if Obama sheds a tear, now “he’s crying for *white* kids”. I’ll go out on a limb and assume that this is a matter that doesn’t even show up on most people’s(black or white) radar. And if that weren’t the case, then it would go to show just how deeply pathological race relations are that the mere act of crying about kids that were murdered because a racial issue.

Secondly, how does anyone know Obama isn’t disturbed by kids killed by war in the middle east? And what is the significance that they are drone strikes as opposed to bombs from regular planes? If a bomb dropped by an F-16 killed a child would that somehow change the equation? Why is the drone matter such an issue?

Thirdly, it’s a war. There’s no way to fight a war and have a collateral damage rate of 0%. Even if it’s a fully justified war. There were German children that died in WWII. So should Winston Churchill have gone on TV and cried over it? How far do we want to take this?

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on Tue Dec 18th 2012 at 08:50:43 sam

Well, at least he did cry a bit. I mean, white or what ever, they were little children. So I think it was a time to cry. For all childre killed in US, regardless of color.

And yes, what about those children US army has killed? Well, if you remember, your former preisdent actually was seen laughing during the time when 250 000 civilians were killed by US army in Irak. But if you want your military to wage a war in a foreign land, be prepared to accept innocent victims. That is what wars are.

There is no war without innocent victims. That is an illusion. In every single war, babies die. Kids die. They get blown to pieces. Tanks roll over them. They get sniped. They get grenades on their heads. That is what war is.

There are no surgigal strikes in real war. Only on tv. That is why those who have seen it, experienced it, say so often: war is hell. It is because thats what it is.

No, I have not been in a war nor I have personal experience of it. But I have met men who have had and they all say this: in war innocent people die. Every day. Women, children, old folks etc. That is what war is.

That is also why you should think really hard do you want to send your young men and women, reservists into a war. Because that is what they will do and expoerience, even if they do not want to. It will happen. They can not avoid it.

A kid will step on a mine. A kid runs at night straight into ambush and gets shot to pieces. He/she is sleeping in his/her home when a missle hits. All that happens in war. That is what you ask your young men and women to do when you send them into a war. Good to remember.

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on Tue Dec 18th 2012 at 09:36:34 Joaquin

I know how Abagond feels right now, I wanted so bad for Obama to be the solution for the world’s problems that I didn’t bother to examine the actual man closely enough, and instead projected my own hopes and dreams onto him, and besides, the right wing in America is still so ugly by comparison it was hard to measure him on my own moral compass and not the mainstream thoughts of him. I can’t deny the painful truth anymore: he is just another smooth talking spokesman for Americas wealthy white elite.

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on Tue Dec 18th 2012 at 09:52:44 Yawn

@Kiwi

“As a Chinese-American, I was absolutely taken aback. I thought, “Where are the Hollywood movies dedicated to the twenty million Chinese who died during World War Two?” My grandparents had to live through it and they lost everything. That was when I realized that Western society only cared about the lives of white people.”

Ive known that for as long as Ive read about the world wars. I know the west never cared about anyone, hell even Canada and the USA didnt. To us, it was save the Europeans and the rest later.

We never have really honoured the others who fought along side the West, and its shameful. Thats why we need to get over this pitiful feelings we have about race and the notion of “our own “.

Maybe then we can correct the history books, and movies to reflect honestly on the wars and not put Euros in the forefront of it, because without the others we wouldnt have defeated Germany.

“I hope you can see the intention of this post more clearly.”

I do, youve explained it perfectly to me. I thank you for it.

Apologies If I sounded angry.

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on Tue Dec 18th 2012 at 10:07:29 bobbie

I agree with you Sam. And really Abagond, what type of human being would not cry when you have these little kids shot down in a class room where ‘war’ is not happening? Because they are white means your heart has turned to stone?There are certain things involved in war, sorry to say. They call it ‘collateral’ damage. Your previous Presidents are just as guilty when they gave the order for our troops to go to war. Jr Bush gave the order under false pretenses of ‘weapons of mass destruction’. How many tens of thousands have died? Bombs, mines, rockets take out more innocent victims than drones. Drones are used to reduce the carnage on our own military without being on the ground. It saves lives of ‘our’ troops; that IS what it’s about. This President is annilated by the racists on one hand, and now to have his own black people being petty and annilating him on the other hand. As a black person, it is discouraging to be looked at under a microscope as no other President before him. We’ve always had to do things ‘twice’ as well as the white man to get any credit!! sorrowful. So I agree to disagree with you on this topic.

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on Tue Dec 18th 2012 at 10:49:38 Shady_Grady

“They asked if our own nation wasn’t using massive doses of violence to solve its problems, to bring about the changes it wanted. Their questions hit home, and I knew that I could never again raise my voice against the violence of the oppressed in the ghettos without having first spoken clearly to the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today — my own government. “

-MLK Jr.

It’s a tough post but it’s on target. The atrocity in Newtown is horrible and so are other killings of children. The reasons may differ but bottom line children are being killed. As pointed out the US is even targeting first responders to drone attacks, which when/if other people do it, is properly understood to be terrorism.

Once we accept violence as an acceptable way to impose our will, it can be very difficult to try to limit its application. That’s what I took away from this post. Presumably Pakistani, Yemeni and other foreign parents love their children as much as we do. We should all be working to build a planet where no killing of children is ever considered.

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on Tue Dec 18th 2012 at 12:17:32 nomad

tears for some tots,
for some other tots not.

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on Tue Dec 18th 2012 at 12:31:04 Dave Enamu

You Americans make me laugh, you want to rule the world but don’t want to face the consequences. After 9/11 you didn’t care who died all you wanted was revenge and so you got it – in Iraq and Afghanistan – and now you don’t like what you see. Of course it is sad when children die in such a mind numbing way President Obama was right to weep for them and yes he should weep for all the children who die for your cause to rule the world, you all should weep and feel ashamed, but you can’t blame him for your countries intrusions overseas, he’s your president you voted for him he’s just continuing what your country has been doing for decades under numerous presidents.
If Obama tries to revoke some of your gun laws you’ll all be up in arms screaming that it goes against your constitutional rights to bare arms, grow up the lot of ya your pathetic.

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on Tue Dec 18th 2012 at 13:07:42 abagond

@ Shady Grady

Thanks! You nailed it.

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on Tue Dec 18th 2012 at 13:19:46 abagond

@ Sam

The trouble is, drones are being sold as surgical warfare and, of course, they are not. Especially the way Obama uses them.

Drones allow Americans to kill foreigners while they sit in Nevada. Like it was some bloody video game. And the press says little about it. So little that I doubt most Americans know about the drones in Yemen and Somalia. Or that Obama has killed American citizens, even a 16-year-old, on purpose without due process of law. Or that Obama counts all males of military age killed by drones as “militants”, whether they are or not. Or that he profiles, killing people who just look like they are up to no good without even knowing who they are.

Because drones make killing so easy and because it is done with so little accountability, it becomes like a drug.

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on Tue Dec 18th 2012 at 13:21:59 abagond

@ bobble

“As a black person, it is discouraging to be looked at under a microscope as no other President before him.”

I have pulled my punches when it comes to Obama. But on the drone stuff he deserves to be whacked, big time. This is not microscopic stuff. It is one of ways in which he is WORSE than Bush, which is pretty sad.

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on Tue Dec 18th 2012 at 13:27:50 abagond

@ Deep, Yawn, etc

I tried different approaches to writing this post. The gun control angle, the black children shot down by gun violence about which he says or does next to nothing about, etc. But this is what worked best. Mainly because Obama is directly responsible for the deaths in Pakistan and Yemen.

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on Tue Dec 18th 2012 at 13:33:25 abagond

@ Peanut

When I voted for Obama in 2008 it was almost like voting for myself. He threw his pastor under the bus, and that was unsettling and I should have paid more attention to it, but I chose to overlook it at the time.

In the years since I have seen him do things that I never would. So, yes, I am extremely disillusioned with him.

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on Tue Dec 18th 2012 at 13:36:29 abagond

@ Peanut & Linda

I understand the title is kind of extreme but it stays. I cried too, but the deaths of those children are being privileged in a sickening way. Not just by the press but even by a man who should know better. I was going to put up a picture of Uncle Ruckus, so I could have gone harder than I did.

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on Tue Dec 18th 2012 at 13:42:38 abagond

@ Tulio

Churchill is a pretty low standard.

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on Tue Dec 18th 2012 at 13:44:40 abagond

@ bobble

Bush Jr is a pretty low standard.

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on Tue Dec 18th 2012 at 13:50:28 Yawn

@Abagond

“Mainly because Obama is directly responsible for the deaths in Pakistan and Yemen.”

It’s true, he plays his part in it.

But you can’t really say he’s taking full responsibility though, seeing as being President is a job and he does have other folks he sometimes answers to (Military personnel, CIA, etc).

I see it as a he does what he needs to/does what he’s lead& told to. I couldn’t see him saying “no” to anyone directly without Congress and the likes getting all up in arms.

You already see how much flak he gets just being the president, could you imagine if he went against the wishes of the massive hoard of gun-toting war loving politicians?

But I agree with you, he has indirectly caused the deaths of children in Pakistan and Yemen he hasn’t publicly at least said anything on. War should be condemned and Drone Strikes should be outlawed like land mines.

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on Tue Dec 18th 2012 at 13:52:52 diaryofanegress

Aba

If I were to list all the things that Barry has done to us throughout the diaspora, you’d faint. Thank you for this post. Well written. And frankly, it needed to be said.

I too was caught up in the beginning with the deeply tanned white Zionist. No longer. I used to live in NYC so I traveled in a “artsy” circle. My friends knew/ know writers, actors, directors, like Spike Lee and Fuqua, and politicians. ALL politicians are brought and paid for. In their language, it’s called “lobbyists.”

Barry wants us dead.

There is too much info for me to share with you, especially on the internet where we are being monitored 24/7, but please believe me when I tell you that the shootings, ALL of them, are planned “events.” These people are not playing with us. Especially us Africans because they are “studying” our DNA for the future…if you understand what I mean. When you have a baby, the baby’s blood sample is kept in a freezer for “reference” for the future.

Robert Gallo is funded by none other than Bill Gates.

Sorry to derail, my love.

Great post.

Dig deeper into Barry and you’ll find AfriCom and the Council on Foreign Relations. That will lead you to the UN and the Bilderberg Group. Things are NOT what they appear to be.

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on Tue Dec 18th 2012 at 13:55:15 abagond

@ bobble

Obama SHOULD cry for the children in Newtown. And it was great that he named each one. Unfortunately, this seems to be a privilege reserved for well-to-do white children.

If this massacre had taken place at a school in a poor black neighbourhood, I have a sinking feeling he would NOT have cried, not on television. He would be GRIM, like a stern father. And the press narrative would be VERY different – about black pathologies, etc. There would probably be a “special” Black in America on CNN.

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on Tue Dec 18th 2012 at 13:55:59 justgrace1975

Agabond,

Usually, I agree with everything you write. I will share a lot of the information you post on your site with friends. You drop mad knowledge. But I have say that this post you posted was done too soon. The wound is still raw and tender. It’s easy to make comments about what should or shouldn’t be done because we don’t know the victims personally. But when you do, it’s not so easy to stand back and critique. One of the victims, Ana Marquez-Green happens to be the daughter of a friend I’ve known since the 7th grade and I’m 37. Instead of getting in attack dog pose and lambasting the president for his shortcomings, have some sensitivity. If only for a little while.

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on Tue Dec 18th 2012 at 14:01:09 abagond

@ Peanut

“” this type of thing doesn’t happen HERE…”

Yup. Middle-class white people are VERY comfortable with children dying so long as they are not white. And Obama, at least in public, does not seem to be much different. The Trayvon thing is the only exception I can think of.

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on Tue Dec 18th 2012 at 14:51:39 ch555x

This idea of bubble-think in The States stretches back centuries. Not everyone has or currently thinks that way (as evident w/ this and other communities), but it’s just enough to keep it going, albeit reduced from previous years (i.e. colonialism). It has to be said that there are folks who “carry water” for this stuff, so that’s another front that needs to be addressed.

I figured this bubble-think would burst after 9/11 (natural barriers) along with the advancement of tech/info access, but as we see post-Newtown, you still have folks clamoring for more guns (Fort Hood should’ve burst that one as well).

Looking at how entrenched this is (foreign and domestic) along with the M.I.C., it’s a bit tricky in expecting one person to do this or that when: 1.) removing this culture will take outright war for quicker resolution or decades of elbow-grease and 2.) some of this stuff is outright corrupt and supported by certain sects, whether in the beltway or the Middle East for whatever reason (power-grabs, turf wars, drugs, money, etc.).

That aside, I’m sure we’d all look like an casino ashtray if we faced a complete exposure of the globe’s ills. Who knows what tears are/were shed on and off-camera (if shed at all). I’m a bit murky on the post title, but the general content I obviously understand and co-sign.

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on Tue Dec 18th 2012 at 15:34:02 kingston20

Black folks always have something to be mad at, and in most cases the wrong thing. Obama shouldn’t have cried because all the children were WHITE(Ana was black), is that a joke, I cried and I’m black. No I didn’t cry for Trayvon Martin either and no I’m not crying for young black kids in Chicago living in America with every opportunity available to them, killing each other for no other reason than the fact they are angry about some dumb shite…a dozen kids knocking one boy over the head with a 2×4, posting pictures on Facebook with guns after killing someone, shooting someone because they said something you didn’t like.

We are at war in Afghanistan. Pakistan has played host to the same enemy we are fighting against, while at the same time accepting $18 Billion in Aid from the US government. It is regrettable that kids are dying or even adult civilians for that matter and no one not even the President. Pakistani children are also dying when suicide bombers blow up their markets, or set their schools on fire, or shoot Malala in the head, where is the list of those children. If you’re going to give an analysis present the big picture and at least pretend to add some level of objectivity…and stop repeating the dumb shit you heard on Facebook from the same people who still talk about the bilderberg group and that nonsense. At the very least explore the world, travel somewhere, because you probably are still of the opinion that this war is nonexistent, because you’re bubble is undisturbed in your safe zone going to and from your classes or work or whatever it is you do…

OBAMA CRIES FOR WHITE CHILDREN? – dumbass article

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on Tue Dec 18th 2012 at 15:52:01 solesearch

If this would have happened at a predominately black school Obama would have shed tears for those children too. I don’t think Obama only cares about white children. I think we are so conditioned to gun violence that mass shootings are the only thing that can move us. Gang shootings are commonplace, robbery shootings are commonplace, boyfriends and husbands shooting their girlfriends and wives is commonplace. Civilians dying in war is commonplace.

The mass shooting of small children while they sit in a classroom is not commonplace. Not yet, anyway. If the NRA has their way it will be commonplace.

You know what makes these things commonplace or makes us not take action to stop them: victim blaming.

Now, we can’t tell these children and teachers they should’ve chosen better partners. We can’t tell them they shouldn’t have been gang members or lived near them. We can’t tell them they shouldn’t have been playing loud music. We can’t tell them they shouldn’t have been wearing a hoodie. But, apparently, we can tell them they should’ve all been strapped.

So once that narrative becomes widespread I doubt we will be crying over events like this either.

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on Tue Dec 18th 2012 at 15:53:51 aspergum

I think this whole post, including the title, is on point, and completely appropriate. I don’t mind being a bit insensitive to people who are always insensitive about far, far higher numbers of dead black and brown children (let alone adults).

I do feel especially terrible about the deaths in this American mass shooting because so many children died. But I also have The Missing White Girl Syndrome coming to mind a lot.

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on Tue Dec 18th 2012 at 15:56:54 wilson

The title is factually true. The kids that died were white, Obama cried. It’s true! It doesn’t state whether it was wrong or correct for obama to do so.

What is the problem is that we all know Obama is being hypocritical. You listen to his speech and how he talks about children you’d think he really values them. You watch his actions and you realise, “Oh wait a second, this guy is actively killing kids around the world”. And YES he is killing kids.

So Obama is hypocritical, I take everything he says with a HUGE pinch of salt. And furthermore, he is a father. I mean, what kind of a person is this??

What happened at that school was horrendous but the truth is probably even more horrendous. Listening to people analyzing the media coverage and the changing story line, listening to eye witness accounts etc, you realize that wait a second, “Something else is going on here than meets the eye.” And anyways, bottom line is Obama has zero empathy or compassion even though he feigns having them, he can’t have any given all he does. That is the truth.

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on Tue Dec 18th 2012 at 16:03:21 wilson

Always remember,

If anything, Politicians are EXPERT liars – NO EXCEPTION TO THIS RULE. You don’t get that high up without perfecting the art of lying. Not in this highly pathological world of ours.

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on Tue Dec 18th 2012 at 17:20:03 Anne

Interesting perspective. Now I wonder how other people reacted to his speech??? (Yes, ou have to click in the link below)

http://wonkette.com/493408/new-victims-of-newtown-identified-nfl-fans-whose-games-were-pre-empted-by-villain-president

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on Tue Dec 18th 2012 at 17:26:30 Dave Enamu

I’ve said it before ‘the obsession of race is an american pastime’ can’t you just for once leave race out of it, kids have died here show some compassion. As for Obama he’s damned if does and damned if he does’nt the man can’t win.

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on Tue Dec 18th 2012 at 17:46:00 aspergum

Dave,

I’d be glad to leave race out of it, if the white supremacist power structure would do that too. But it doesn’t.

When people cry out “Oh, how could this happen HERE?”, they’re implicitly saying that it’s okay when it happens elsewhere, and to “other” people (that is, urban areas and foreign countries, and to black and brown people).

It’s like “the economy.” There’s always been a recession in urban American areas; it’s only when the white middle class gets hit that America itself suddenly is suddenly said to be “going through a recession” (and even then, as urban areas consequently slide into what amounts to a depression, that fact still goes largely unnoticed).

You’re free to ignore the following fact, but many prefer not to, and many others simply can’t: race is always a factor.

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on Tue Dec 18th 2012 at 17:52:57 Kwamla

@ diaryofanegress & Wilson

Both your lines of questioning and reasoning are spot on.

@ Abagond

This is an honest and respectful post for you considering your previous support for Obama. He is not all that he seems. Nor is the institutional establishment who are pulling strings behind him.

People need to be confronted with factual information which their governments and media are not telling them. Then they can, as Matari has opinionated, acknowledge and review their own culpability.

However, as it has already been mentioned:

“…Dig deeper…”

“…Something else is going on here than meets the eye…”

Something I recently came across may shock those who still wish to believe this was just a senseless tragedy…

http://universallyaware.ning.com/video/sandy-hook-elem-3-shooters-a-close-look

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on Tue Dec 18th 2012 at 18:32:29 solesearch

One those kids, Ana, looks pretty Black to me.

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on Tue Dec 18th 2012 at 18:46:02 Matari

As Wilson has observed, it is the nature of politicians to lie.
Virtually all of them are good actors/role players as they go about deceiving (managing) gullible people.

Therefore, as sad as this tragedy is, why should I believe that Obama’s tears are real???

Moreover, why should I believe that he, at his core, is a decent and honest human being? His actions belies his words (campaign promises regarding bringing “the troops” home)!

Can a truly decent man get in – and remain in – bed with those who lust for blood, lies, hegemony, profits at the cost of EVERYTHING/EVERYONE else??
Let’s not forget that his reasons for being in office are NOT for the benefit of common people – but for the interests of the bankers and other super-rich elitists/handlers that enabled him to be (s)elected to play a leading role in this *staged* political production falsely called a democracy of, for and by the people.

Some of you need to wake up and open your eyes! It’s never about what they say. It’s always about what they do.

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on Tue Dec 18th 2012 at 19:21:23 Iznam

I don’t like this. Why? Because children of ALL races and nationalities are being killed EVERYWHERE IN THE WORLD. It really shouldn’t be about the person killing them. It should be about the innocent and bright lives that are being taken away for reasons no one really understands. They are the next generation and it is unfair how their lives are being taken away so early. What we need to do now is concentrate on protecting them and providing them with the right tools to succeed for when their turn is up. They can be the ones who fix this, whatever this is.

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on Tue Dec 18th 2012 at 19:26:51 nmaat433

Secondly, how does anyone know Obama isn’t disturbed by kids killed by war in the middle east? And what is the significance that they are drone strikes as opposed to bombs from regular planes? If a bomb dropped by an F-16 killed a child would that somehow change the equation? Why is the drone matter such an issue?

Because UNMANNED drones are a supreme act of cowardice. US has introduced ‘play station war’ to the world. The sickening video released by Wikileaks is why Assange has been ceaselessly demonized and cornered like HE committed the atrocious murders. And the US policy is that any persons in the area of a drone attack are considered ‘suspect’, even if they are simply part of a funeral procession burying the murdered victims of a previous drone attack..

Thirdly, it’s a war. There’s no way to fight a war and have a collateral damage rate of 0%. Even if it’s a fully justified war. There were German children that died in WWII. So should Winston Churchill have gone on TV and cried over it? How far do we want to take this?

When did the US declare war on Pakistan (a supposed allied country), Libya, Yemen, Somalia, and now Syria and it’s assumed Iran to be next?

I think there is a lot of un-addressed stockholm syndrome going on in this country. You have a nation that is clearly acting in terroristic ways, either directly and indirectly, globally, both outside & inside it’s own borders, and that terror disproportionately affects people of color. And yet you havesome of those same POC shedding tears for those who have apparently un-officially declared war on our existence; even parroting the of-repeated line that we somehow are guilty or complicit in our suffering. But who is the largest arms dealer in the world? Hint: it ain’t Pookie on the block.

My point is: ALL life is precious. This needs no debate. But who frames discussions on what loss of life gets focus and alternately which loss of life gets ignored is something that we should be debating. I understood that as the meaning behind the title of the thread.

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on Tue Dec 18th 2012 at 19:34:09 tehnoun

I suppose it just boils down to the fact that he’s a politician, and it’s their job to lie and sugarcoat in order to stay on the job. The hypocrisy certainly is upsetting, but I can’t say I find it shocking, especially because shedding tears over something you had a part in is essentially saying you were wrong, and politicians are generally incapable of saying that.

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on Tue Dec 18th 2012 at 19:39:19 Kendra

Time to unsubscribe to your blog posts. Normally, I enjoy reading your opinion and wealth of knowledge. With this article it felt as if you went into a hate-filled rant that went way beyond the topic. The title was appalling, and seemed to suggest that the children aren’t just innocent people, but a specific group privileged enough to earn the President’s tears. This horrible incident isn’t about race, although you seem to think it is. There’s many more flaws in this piece, but maybe I’d be wasting my time to write them.

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on Tue Dec 18th 2012 at 19:43:14 Kushite Prince

It seems our President has a very selective memory. He should remember ALL the children.
Remember the 35 children who died in Gaza this month from Israeli bombardments.

Remember the 168 children who have been killed by US drone attacks in Pakistan since 2006.

Remember the 231 children killed in Afghanistan in the first 6 months of this year.

Remember the 400 other children in the US under the age of 15 who die from gunshot wounds each year.

Remember the 921 children killed by US air strikes against insurgents in Iraq.

Remember the 1,770 US children who die each year from child abuse and maltreatment.

Remember the 16,000 children who die each day around the world from hunger.
All these tragedies MUST end!

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on Tue Dec 18th 2012 at 19:46:01 Kushite Prince

@Kwamla Thanks for that link brother! We have to get the TRUTH out there. That was very informative. People don’t understand what’s really behind these “random” shootings. Thanks again.

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on Tue Dec 18th 2012 at 19:48:16 Kushite Prince

@Peanut
“the whole point is that no children anywhere should have to suffer this type of violence and I was thinking about the little black girl who got shot outside her house because she was caught up in a gang fight and she just was in the wrong place at the wrong time…i was thinking about the children who are bombed in other countries on a daily basis too…and how Americans never see that side of the world and so to some people this shouldn’t be happening HERE, but that’s what some people go through on a daily basis and that’s the saddest thing

i think people don’t understand that there is no such thing as one group of people being less deserving of being gunned down senselessly than any other…well to do children in the US don’t deserve to be killed senselessly and poor, children of color whether they’re in the US or in other countries don’t deserve it either and when we overlook that in other groups…it comes back on us one way or another and that’s a lesson we have to learn”

Beautifully said! I love you Peanut. 🙂

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on Tue Dec 18th 2012 at 19:49:57 abagond

@ Kendra

ALL children are innocent. This post assumes that. What is at issue is SELECTIVE empathy. Obama’s empathy for the Newtown children is appropriate. But his near silence on the death of black and brown children shows that his empathy is highly selective.

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on Tue Dec 18th 2012 at 19:56:59 wilson

I co-sign what abagond just stated.

Selective empathy and compassion. However, I think that is only true as far as most of the citizenry go. People like Obama probably don’t even know what empathy is. Just saying…

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on Tue Dec 18th 2012 at 20:04:00 abagond

I do not have a huge issue with the U.S. or Israel going after military targets – even if they do tend to make peace as a last resort. But both countries show a shocking disregard for brown lives. Obama should know better – but so should Jews. You do not fire missiles at houses, for example, something both countries do with their highly accurate weaponry, and then say, “Oops! Civilian casualties! Collateral damage! Dead children – cannot be helped!”

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on Tue Dec 18th 2012 at 20:09:52 abagond

@ wilson

“People like Obama probably don’t even know what empathy is. Just saying…”

Right. If he does not make a serious effort at getting some gun control passed, like maybe bring back the assault weapons ban, then he does not even care about white children. He is just Borg at that point.

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on Tue Dec 18th 2012 at 20:49:44 abagond

@ Peanut

“Abagond, won’t u please reconsider the title…cuz u know most people aren’t going to get the underlying point of your post…they’re just gonna read the title and not get it….so spare us all”

I will think about it. It is a good title for Twitter and for the post itself but a bad one for Google – it is not something anyone would think to search on. It took me hours to compile that list and, as it stands, it will pretty much go to waste in the long run. The best title would somehow work in the words “drones” and “children”.

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on Tue Dec 18th 2012 at 20:55:07 sam

@abagond:
Yes. If my mind does not fail me, years ago one general who was in on developing this type of warfare said in an interview something like this: I goal os to develop systems which allow our soldiers to eliminate targets without dangering themselves and also systems which will be more accetable among the public. Drones etc. You are right.

The american military learnt its lesson in Vietnam: too many dead boys is bad for business of war, lets create a system which does all the killing with less casualities. Lets create a way to wage wars with minimum casualities and transform the language to orwellian type of words which will leave the home front numb and confused. Collateral damage. Low intensity conflict. Surgigal strike. Preventive strike. Homeland security. Enemy combatants. Operative dictates. JDAM. High intensity Armed Response. etc.

And yes. If the gun laws do not get changed, then there is something very seriously wrong in USA.

Besides, does not the constitution say that every american has a right to bear arms IF the authorities can not guarantee/provide the law and order AND there is a need to form a local militia to do that? Not simply that every one has a right to get what ever guns from what ever source.

One very popular way to circumvent all the present laws are gun swap meets. Many criminals get their guns from those, above the counters. Cash money and you can buy any gun from anyone who is willing to sell it to you.

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on Tue Dec 18th 2012 at 20:59:08 Saira K.

I believe the point is that Barack Obama is directly responsible for the murder of these children through his usage of drone warfare.

I don’t agree with your usage of “white children” as opposed to “pakistani children”, the point is he doesn’t give a shit about any non-American children he has killed.

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on Tue Dec 18th 2012 at 21:06:33 abagond: The list of children Obama has killed with drones and… | Knitting and Sljivovica

[…] (via Obama cries for white children | Abagond) […]

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on Tue Dec 18th 2012 at 21:25:20 abagond

New title:

The incomplete list of children Obama has killed with drones

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on Tue Dec 18th 2012 at 21:38:22 abagond

@ Kushite

Thank you for the lists.

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on Tue Dec 18th 2012 at 22:09:32 abagond

@ solesearch

Good point about narratives. I would add that most of these narratives arise to make people feel comfortable with the violence their life is built on.

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on Tue Dec 18th 2012 at 23:06:02 dave

glad you changed the title abagond. Good post. Notice that was one of the things Romney could have nailed Obama on and didn’t(the drone strikes, with no backing from congress except this “war on terror” that still rages on. Especially for a so-called man of god as Romney has been and maybe still is, or isn’t as much anymore. But what is just as wrong is the so called do gooder msnbc liberal types don’t hold him accountable at all for it. Makes me think they are all full of it , or all bought….. what do you think?

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on Tue Dec 18th 2012 at 23:07:41 dave

I shouldn’t say no backing… but I thought acts of war needed full backing from congress. I guess he uses the “war on terror” as his free pass to do so.

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on Tue Dec 18th 2012 at 23:39:08 sondis

The trauma being faced by the surviving children of the Newtown school massacre is a daily reality for their mostly poor black and brown counterparts in cities like Chicago, Philadelphia and Baltimore.

That’s because gun violence is most prevalent in America’s impoverished inner-cities, where researchers say the PTSD rate could be as high as 40 percent, similar to war zones like Afghanistan. That means just under half of the people living in urban poor communities are suffering from “intrusive, upsetting memories; nightmares; chronic anxiety and fear; memory loss; diminished interest in life; emotional numbing and angry outbursts.”

Though African American children represent just 15 percent of the nation’s child population, they made up 45 percent of child gun deaths in 2008 and 2009, according to an analysis by the Children’s Defense Fund. In Chicago, nearly 700 children were shot in 2011. Between March 2011 and March 2012, 107 Chicago children and youths under the age of 20 were killed by gun violence. Yet, these children’s short lives, personalities and dreams are rarely given nationwide coverage like the victims of the Sandy Hook mass shooting. Instead, they’re subtly referenced in local news headlines as nameless statistics.

That’s not to say that the children killed in Newton, Connecticut shouldn’t receive coverage, they absolutely should. But so should the black children whose communities bear the brunt of lax gun laws all around the country.

Since 2001, over 5,000 people have been killed in Chicago’s gun violence, far outpacing the 2,000 of soldiers killed in Afghanistan since the war began. Yet it took the massacre of 20 suburban, middle class, overwhelmingly white children for citizens and (some) politicians to collectively demand gun control, sending the message that the black lives are valued less than white ones.

The irony is that Chicago has some of the strictest gun laws on the books. But guns continue to flood the city, with those used in crime scenes coming mostly from the white suburbs of Illinois and Indiana. In fact, half of the guns traced to crime scenes nationwide come from just 10 states with lax gun laws: Mississippi, West Virginia, Kentucky, Alaska, Alabama, South Carolina, Virginia, Indiana, Nevada, and Georgia. For every city that restricts firearms, there appears to be a Southern, historically racist state whose guns will fill the void, guns that exist in high numbers so that the white Republican male leadership of the NRA can keep their assault rifles.

As Marian Wright Edelman, President of the Children’s Defense Fund, says, policies pushed by the “gun lobby” impede “the ability of cities to develop local solutions to gun violence in their communities.”

Another striking finding from the Children’s Defense Fund analysis is that, “The top cause of death for black teens ages 15 to 19 was gun homicide, while for white teens it was motor vehicle accidents followed by gun homicides” (Be sure to check out these fantastic graphics put together by Colorlines). The difference is that the number of white teens killed in car accidents has declined by half in the last two decades thanks to a nationwide campaign to curb drinking and driving, a crime committed most often by white teens. These steps were taken despite the impact regulations and stricter enforcement might have on alcohol profits because middle class (mostly white) mothers said “enough is enough”. It’s hard not to notice the sensitive approach to this largely white problem, as white teens who rack up excessive DUI’s are punished with community service, license suspensions and AA classes, while young black men rot away in jail cells disenfranchised for life for harmless crimes like marijuana possession.

As lax gun laws increasingly affect the white suburbs, Kell Golf at The Root notes how gun control could move in a similar direction:

After Columbine, some newly inspired gun-control activists, many of them upper-middle-class mothers from predominantly white communities, expressed regret to mothers of color for not being involved in the fight for gun control earlier, when gun violence claimed the lives of kids who didn’t grow up in leafy suburbs and whose deaths were not likely to garner extensive coverage on the nightly news. The activism ignited by Columbine resulted in more stringent gun control laws and more diligent enforcement of existing laws, particularly on the state level.

Our supposedly “post-racial” society is telling poor children of color that they’re basically fucked until their reality leaks into the lives of middle class white kids. Only then will lawmakers apparently give a shit.

I want to add that that this racial disparity extends to other issues as well. Take the economic crisis that hit in 2008, brining with it massive unemployment and foreclosure. For communities of color, particularly black communities, foreclosure and joblessness were crises long before 2008, it just wasn’t worthy of coverage. Many of the problems affecting our nation seem to hit communities of color the hardest. I bet if the Americans payed more attention to these neighborhoods, they could (a) learn a thing or two about tomorrow’s white tragedy, and (b) join one another in solidarity to ensure that all children get a chance at a safe an prosperous future.

Furthermore, it’s just as important to remember that the children of Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen, Gaza, Mexico, the Democratic Republic of Congo and more countries than I can name in a single blog post, are maimed and killed due to US policies that have stolen their childhoods. Whether they’re slaughtered in US drone strikes or drug war fueled carnage, these children are no less important than the little one’s massacred in Chicago and Newton.

Think Progress has a list of 10 typically pro-gun lawmakers who have expressed a willingness to support gun control legislation following the massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School. This is wonderful news, but again, where were these lawmakers over the summer when dozens of people were routinely getting shot in Chicago each and every weekend?

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on Wed Dec 19th 2012 at 00:09:43 Kushite Prince

@Abagond You’re very welcome. Glad I could help.

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on Wed Dec 19th 2012 at 02:56:40 King

“I do not have a huge issue with the U.S. or Israel going after military targets”

What is a military target?

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on Wed Dec 19th 2012 at 03:02:37 vanishing point.

Abagond, it is posts like these that I come back for an read. And I can not thank you enough because YOU are honest to god real and make sense to me. I love each and every comment here too. all so valuable. ..I gonna cry now but thank you..

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on Wed Dec 19th 2012 at 07:03:25 dave

@sondis… Very good comment. Made me think alot before responding. I will say the thing you may have left out , that in crime areas there are an influx of illegal firearms and guns. Makes me think that the war on drugs should be moved to the war on illegal guns. My thing is if you take the guns away from legal gun owners will some of those guns then go to the black market? The Obama administration and it’s affiliates have already been caught selling illegal guns and military rifles to the drug lords and the mexican mafia. I’m sure they sell these guns not just there but around the world to make money and obtain some agenda. We may indeed need stricter laws. But we also need to enforce the laws that are already on the books. Those stimulus bills that Bush and Obama did seem like the money went to the wrong people. I saw some guy on TV saying that the mental health budget was cut at the federal level and the state and local because nobody has money. Well maybe they shouldn’t have let those greedy wall street people steal all that stimulus money.

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on Wed Dec 19th 2012 at 07:07:17 dave

Also whether you are for a national health care system or not. Shouldn’t that be something that is amended in that bill? Now that it is a federal system they could weed out these troubled mental people and make sure they don’t have access to guns.

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on Wed Dec 19th 2012 at 08:12:26 sam

@bulanik:
Yes but when we talk about the great powers, the rules of engagement are always bent or ignored. Also, there is a magic word in US that covers pretty much everything, something that american dissidents have been sayin for years: National security. When ever the goverment wants to break their own laws, they just say National security. J. Edgar used the same argument. You can’t argue against that. Or can you? Or should you?

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on Wed Dec 19th 2012 at 09:16:14 Origin

It’s tremendously sad that an elementary school was turned into a slaughterhouse. I felt empathy for the parents and the children and continue to feel it. It’s also a solemn reminder of just how vulnerable we all are in a country with more guns than people and a lot of isolated, angry and fearful people.

But..but…as days passed and I absorbed the extensive coverage, my mind went back to the shooting of 17 year old Trayvon Martin and the way HE, the victim, was demonized, and his shooter was held up as a poster boy for gun rights and the appropriateness of SYG laws and how he acquired donations towards his defense, a part of me, a part hardened from seeing injustice, considered that the grief of these mostly white, suburban parents is no greater than that of so many blacks and browns who have had their children murdered. A whole nation seldom mourns for them. Often, justice evades them. They may even be viewed as opportunistic or race-baiting if they press for justice while their dead child’s character is assassinated in the media.

Then I start to ponder why I care about these dead white children. Why can’t I be as hard as white people? Why do I see them as human and feel horrible that their little bodies were torn apart by bullets? Then I realized I was asking the wrong question. I’m normal. The real question is: what’s wrong with so many white people?

So, I understand where abagond is coming from with this article. The whole world mourned the death of these 20 innocent children. But what’s less innocent about children in Gaza, or Pakistan…or a teenager walking home with skittles and iced tea? Remember Katrina? Who cared? Black men, women, and children escaping the deluge to higher ground in white neighbourhoods were being shot at and gunned down. So it’s not that the events in Newtown aren’t horrific. But the outpouring of grief contrasted with the apathy towards dead children who’re not white speaks volumes. It’s a reminder of how much more valuable white lives are. RIP little ones from Sandy Hook Elementary School, but I have to save some of my sorrow for the nameless ones.

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on Wed Dec 19th 2012 at 09:49:50 Kwamla

@ Kushite Prince

Thank you for your comment, awareness and insight…

Sadly, its the deep state of brainwashing in the US that is difficult to overcome which prevents the real truth about what the government is really doing to reach the people.

As the majority of these comments and the changed title of this post beautifully illustrate: people will fight vigorously to maintain and defend a cherished view of the, apparently, innate goodness of American society. Even when evidence clearly suggests this picture to be totally false and delusional.

This surely is the real hypnotic effect of the “Borg” mentality at work ….!

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on Wed Dec 19th 2012 at 10:31:29 satanforce

Quite frankly, I think that whole ‘Naming of the Children’ thing was a cynical attempt to catch on with that whole Morgan Freeman hoax meme. Here’s a pretty good interview/discussion about drobe warfare.

http://archive.org/details/scm-90762-medeabenjamindronewarfarekilli

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on Wed Dec 19th 2012 at 11:30:23 Kwamla

@ Abagond

I’d be interested to know exactly what I said in that last comment (unpublished) that required moderation…It would be helpful for future commenting purposes.

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on Wed Dec 19th 2012 at 13:23:15 abagond

@ Kwamla

Because “Kushite Prince” has the word “shit” in it.

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on Wed Dec 19th 2012 at 14:12:59 abagond

@ Dave

MSNBC blows when it comes to this kind of stuff. The only person there I remember raising an issue about drones is Joe Scarborough, their token Republican. Pretty sad.

Of course, they are not alone: most of the press gives Obama a pass too. A good sign of that is how I did not have to lift a finger to get the list of children killed at Newtown: it made the news. But for the children killed by drones not even Google had a quick answer. It took me hours to compile the list, and even then about 50 names are still missing!!! Maybe the CIA has the full list or a 90% complete list, but I seriously doubt it.

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on Wed Dec 19th 2012 at 14:19:39 abagond

@ sondis

Excellent comment. Thanks.

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on Wed Dec 19th 2012 at 15:01:25 abagond

@ King

Generally speaking I would say that military targets are things that can cause direct physical harm, like deployed soldiers, weapons, warships, fighter planes, tanks, military bases, etc. Also legitimate would be a military’s supply lines up to a certain point. Some would go beyond that to the factories that make arms but I would not. If most of the people you are killing are civilians then you have probably gone too far.

Soldiers at home with their family, buying bread at a bakery, teaching school or going to a funeral – all things targeted by Obama – are NOT military targets, if only because most people being killed are civilians. Israel calls this using civilians as a shield, but too bad. Israel and America are not so desperate that they have to resort to desperate measures. In fighting “terrorism” they have become the terrorists.

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on Wed Dec 19th 2012 at 17:18:03 sondis

abagond

@ sondis

Excellent comment. Thanks.

No, thank you for saving such a informative site, where black folk can voice our opinions and frustrations about living in this white supremacist society.

@ Origin:

“Then I start to ponder why I care about these dead white children. Why can’t I be as hard as white people? Why do I see them as human and feel horrible that their little bodies were torn apart by bullets? Then I realized I was asking the wrong question. I’m normal. The real question is: what’s wrong with so many white people?”

I struggled with this very thing, i find myself questioning why should i morn for these white children, when white people don’t care when black children are being killed, every day.

Black children are only worth a 2 min segment on our “local” news stations or a paragraph on a local news website or a police log.

I don’t recall a law being passed in a black child name, every law that was passed, was a direct result of a white child being killed, that should tell how black children’s lives are not valued at all in this country.

This whole talk about gun control, should have been discussed, when Trevon Martin was gunned down by a murderer, named George Zimmerman and a gun control law, passed in his name, “The Trevon Martin law”

How many of you on this blog, want to bet $100.00 that a gun law will be passed and will be named after the slain children in Newtown,CT. ????

I never wish death on any child of any race, anywhere on this rock, we call planet earth, i just don’t have it in me as a black man, to cry or morn for white people’s children, when they don’t morn for black children and even go as far as to persecute black children.

Throughout the years, I’ve seen on the news or internet all over this country, they’ve hand cuffed 7,8,9,10 year black boys and girls, displaying them publicly for the world to see.

I specifically remember one scene,where a white female cop, handcuffed a small black girl, because she was having a tempter tantrum!

see below:

Police in Georgia handcuffed a kindergartner with her arms behind her back after she threw a tantrum at school, and the police chief defended the action as a safety measure.

“She might have misbehaved, but I don’t think she misbehaved to the point where she should have been handcuffed and taken downtown to the police department,” the girl’s aunt said.

Her father remarked: “A six-year-old in kindergarten. They don’t have no business calling the police and handcuffing my child.”
Police Handcuff 6 Year Old Salecia Johnson After Temper Tantrum in Georgia School

While it’s unusual to see a young child handcuffed in school, it’s not unheard of. School officials around the nation have wrestled with the issue of when it’s appropriate to call police on a student.

“Our policy is that any detainee unreported to our station in a patrol vehicle is to be handcuffed in the back…There is no age discrimination on that rule,” the city’s Chief of Police explained.

Salecia Johnson, 6, was accused of tearing items off the walls and throwing books and toys in an outburst Friday at Creekside Elementary School in Milledgeville, according to a police report.

Specifically, they say the child threw a small shelf which struck the principal on the leg, and also jumped on a paper shredder and tried to break a glass frame.

So, the school called the police. When an officer tried to calm the child in the principal’s office, she allegedly resisted. The police report says she was then “restrained by placing her hands behind her back and handcuffed.”

A juvenile complaint was filed, accusing the girl of simple battery and damage to property.

The girl’s aunt and mother say the 6-year old waited in a holding cell until they picked her up, and was “so shaken up.”

However, police chief says the girl was taken to the police department’s squad room, not a holding cell, and officers there tried to calm her and gave her a Coke.

Officials at Creekside Elementary did not immediately return calls Tuesday.

Salecia Johnson has been suspended and can’t return to school until August, according to her mother.
Police Handcuff 6 Year Old Salecia Johnson After Temper Tantrum in Georgia School

Salecia Johnson’s parents

“We would not like to see this happen to another child, because it’s horrifying. It’s devastating,” her aunt told The Associated Press.

Elsewhere in the U.S., incidents involving students, police and handcuffs have raised difficult questions for educators, parents and policymakers.

In Florida, the use of police in schools came up several years ago when officers arrested a kindergartner who threw a tantrum during a jelly bean-counting contest. Since then, the overall number of student arrests in Florida has declined, but those for minor offenses have increased on a percentage basis. A bill was proposed this year to restrict police from arresting kids for misdemeanors or other acts that do not pose serious safety threats.

Annette Montano, a mother in Albuquerque, N.M., said her 13-year-old son was arrested last year after burping in gym class. The tension between him and school officials led to several more run-ins, including a strip search after he was accused of selling drugs, she said.

Finally, she said, she pulled him from the school in November. It took her three months to get him placed elsewhere.

Need i post, more?

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on Wed Dec 19th 2012 at 18:29:55 Linda

“Origin@
But..but…as days passed and I absorbed the extensive coverage, my mind went back to the shooting of 17 year old Trayvon Martin and the way HE, the victim, was demonized, and his shooter was held up as a poster boy for gun rights and the appropriateness of SYG laws and how he acquired donations towards his defense, a part of me, a part hardened from seeing injustice, considered that the grief of these mostly white, suburban parents is no greater than that of so many blacks and browns who have had their children murdered.”

Linda says,

I actually felt the same way. I thought about Trayvon immediately and how the POS white Americans on the internet decided to disrespect this child and praise the equally POS Adult that shot Trayvon.

I’m sick of listening and hearing about how it’s OK for adults to kill children and teens. Why is it OK to shoot people in the US when you can’t beat them in a fair physical fight? Why are Cowards celebrated in this country?

I’m sick of American politicians wanting to go into Syria and every other Oil-rich country to assist the “rebels” but American politicians aren’t interested in going into Congo or Mali.

I am also sick of watching the deaths and missing black /brown children get glossed over but we have to listen for days/weeks about missing white children.

or the heroism of black/brown people get bypassed — like the black teenager in the Aurora theater shooting that saved the life of the mother and her 2 kids while the father escaped and drove off leaving them at the shooting…but who’s face did we see all over CNN and other media outlets, the white POS who ran away and left his family to die.

All that being said, I’m glad Abagond changed to the title because it was still insensitive. Abagonds message would continue to get lost because the title left a bad taste in the mouth since all the bodies haven’t even been put in the ground yet,

and as a parent, I weep for all children that lose their young lives senselessly.

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on Wed Dec 19th 2012 at 19:24:48 jezemara

Reblogged this on star date.

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on Wed Dec 19th 2012 at 19:33:09 jezemara

one of my professors teared up as she noted, less eloquently, exactly what you said here. about the drones, and about the shootings/incidents of gun violence that happen at schools that aren’t overrun with white people. this makes me even more mad when people claim that racism is over because he’s president — this man has done nothing for black folks and on top of that he’s giving people even more of an excuse to act a fool

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on Wed Dec 19th 2012 at 23:41:33 Insert Name

@Origin

Well, let me just be extremely cynical here and tell you what I think.

The media largely shapes the way people look at things. When the media tells people that something is a huge tragedy people tend to treat it like it is. When the media doesn’t show something people usually don’t see it. And when things are treated as unimportant and hardly worthy of attention…

Well, that’s how people end up seeing it.

Of course, I’m probably a rather cynical person. As wrong as it may seem for me to say this, after I realized this all I have a hard time caring about any of this. Tragedies occur every day and if I’m not going to get all worked up about every single one, I don’t see the point of getting worked up about any.

People die in horrible ways every day, even in places that should be safe. It’s terribly mundane and commonplace and I have absolutely no idea what I could even try to do about it. And as a rule I don’t become emotionally invested in events I have no real power over.

And the truth is, I suspect that there are a lot of people like me in that regard. However most of them probably know to fake emotional responses to events popularized in the media because they’ll seem like insensitive pricks if they don’t.

Of course that’s just my guess but I think that’s what’s wrong with a bunch of people. They don’t really feel like they can change things so they just act like they care about the things they’re told they’re supposed to be caring about.

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on Wed Dec 19th 2012 at 23:49:43 Kushite Prince

@Kwamla
“Sadly, its the deep state of brainwashing in the US that is difficult to overcome which prevents the real truth about what the government is really doing to reach the people.”
You said it brother! I couldn’t agree more.

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on Wed Dec 19th 2012 at 23:51:41 Kushite Prince

@Abagond
“Because “Kushite Prince” has the word “shit” in it.”
That’s a good one!lol

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on Thu Dec 20th 2012 at 00:12:22 Questions To Ponder « BROTHA WOLF

[…] I’m also willing to bet dollars to donuts that those same people don’t give a damn about children being killed by military drones, missiles and yes, gun in nations like Pakistan and Yemen. President Obama is one such person. […]

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on Thu Dec 20th 2012 at 00:18:59 nmaat433

‘Why are Cowards celebrated in this country?’–because cowards run the country.

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on Thu Dec 20th 2012 at 03:16:05 qpq

The point that needs to made is that it took beautiful “white children” to die to get gun control legislation on the table.

100 people die every day from suicide. What is it going to take to get people to address suicide?

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on Thu Dec 20th 2012 at 05:23:19 NWO Criminal Sympathizers Should Ban All Cars Next Time A Lone Drunkman Kills! « Political Vel Craft

[…] The incomplete list of children Obama has killed with drones! […]

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on Thu Dec 20th 2012 at 16:46:28 jefe

Just noticed that the photo collage includes all the school victims except Madeleine.

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on Thu Dec 20th 2012 at 16:57:32 deepdkchocolate

Obama ain’t kill nobody, He is the representative of The Elite and he does their bidding, but it sure is nice to have a black man to blame, isn’t it? I don’t remember GW catching the hell O is,orClinton who allowed 2 million people to be hacked to death in Rwanda..So much for America being the”police Officers” of the world.

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on Thu Dec 20th 2012 at 19:31:41 Mbeti

Dang nab it – @abgond so you punked out and changed the title huh,I wouldn’t Except I can’t find where I saved it when it was just mine and 3 other commenters, dag it.

Anyway as far all the comments I read’em later but the consesus seems to be continue sympathize and empathize (give a f—k) about them even thou they don’t, havn’t and won’t sympathize and empathize (give a f—k) us (black people ,POC,any body not albino/white) or even some of thier own if it means giving up thier guns and thus thier power.

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on Fri Dec 21st 2012 at 22:08:31 abagond

“If those babies in Newtown had been black babies on the south side of Chicago, there would be few tears, especially in the White House. To put it in ratios, 20 black children would have to die before they receive the sympathy that would be given to one white child. But when one considers how many hundreds of black kids have been murdered in cold blood since we got our first black president, even the 10-to-1 ratio appears to be somewhat optimistic. We could tell one tragic story after another to nearly every Democratic politician in the country, and these words would inspire very little action – if you’ll recall, even our beloved president came to Chicago for the wedding of Valerie Jarrett’s Harvard-educated daughter and didn’t say a word about the scores of children who’d been killed right down the street.”

Dr. Boyce Watkins

http://www.yourblackworld.net/2012/12/black-news/the-world-cries-for-newtowns-children-but-no-one-thinks-about-dead-brown-babies/

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on Sat Dec 22nd 2012 at 00:09:22 dave

I refuse to believe that if this same nut… apples to apples did this same thing in a black elementary that the response would be a lack of tears or national reporting. If anything that could cause more coverage and there automatically would be a question of racism and everything else. That would be more of a mess if any difference.

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on Sat Dec 22nd 2012 at 01:05:53 Spas

I don’t know how the fuck any President lives with themselves. Obama’s kids are the safest kids in the fucking world, while he burns to death innocent kids in foreign lands. He is a fucking disgrace. And so would be Romney, and so was Bush, Clinton, all of them, fuck them.

What kind of a fucking sicko would want to be president? What kind of a sick would join the military? Only when threatened with a real war like WW2 is it moral to join the military. Any other time joining the military is a piece of shit coward’s way out of getting a real job.

What kind of sick motherfucker would want blood on his hands?

I am better than anyone who hides behind government to kill.

If you are not in the military and not the commander in chief, you are better too.

Give yourself a pat on the back. For your conscience is clear.

Let these murdering scum rot. I hope anyone who works in the drone program has to watch their own fucking kid die a slow death from childhood cancer. They fucking deserve to suffer.

I hope at least one relative of the kids killed in Sandy Hook worked for the military. It is payback.

I hate the government and I hate you if you don’t hate the government. Fuck anyone who says it is OK to kill kids with drones.

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on Sat Dec 22nd 2012 at 06:48:04 Mbeti

Dag “Spas” I must cosign I’ve thought this way for years,quess people like us will never be ready for the real world.
I honestly wonder I michelle and thier oldest daugter feels about this.
And to be honest what choice do they have?

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on Sun Dec 23rd 2012 at 00:33:34 Winslie Gomez

Reblogged this on HAPLOGROUP – bit that makes us human. and commented:
Every life is precious

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on Sun Dec 23rd 2012 at 05:39:25 Mbeti

@Yawn
hey yawn I really like how you and other white/albinics and sympathizers guilt tripped abgond into changing the title
bravo for just us ism,
And my med’s ,I’m on em – if you mean weed and cocaine and tobacco oh and sugar/salt/ and fat oh yeah those (sugar/salt/

and fat) are foods – or food additives.
what about alcohol and caffeine – well I often wonder why some prefer to drink and other smoke but that’s another investigation.
Oh you mean products produced exclusively by the pharmaceutical industry and prescribed to you by doctors who like to dress all in white and
specifically because I don’t think the way you think or would like me to think and when I use terms like

albinic-slash-white (to get people to question what whiteness is) I’m not taking my prescribed medicine huh.

Well ms yawn – tell ya what I’m gonna do for you and people who sympathize with ya – next time and because people like you
insist on thinking the way you do (with no drug use legal or illegal mine you) there will be a next time – a bunch of little or big white/albinic people get killed by a deranged albinic/white male or female ,in their exclusively white/albinic neighborhood where they can say this shouldn’t happen here because we have externalized it so it “should” only happen among black/brown/melaniated populations where they live I’m going to — YAWN and go about my drug hazed merry way.

And evolution spirals up not down.

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on Mon Dec 24th 2012 at 11:32:21 Mike

I am sure that the editor is fully aware that terrorists surround themselves with children in order to protect themselves. They don’t even travel anywhere without filling their vehicles with children.

The terrorists must be stopped, there is no other option. If that means sacrificing a couple of children for the greater good then that is how it has to be.

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on Mon Dec 24th 2012 at 14:52:32 Billybob

Obama didn’t kill anyone. Misrepresenting information to manipulate the thought process of people is a weak approach to making an argument. I’m looking to read a real thoughts that stands on solid ground, rather than weak thoughts based on an attempt to manipulate.

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on Mon Dec 24th 2012 at 17:36:16 Billybob

There is a difference between suggesting that Obama himself killed children vs suggesting that the government killed children. Only one person is responsible for Newtown, CT. Only 2 people are responsible for Columbine. The government is a collective of people who make joint decisions, and not one person as the blogger tried to imply with an inaccurate, sensationalized headline used to try and manipulate people.

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on Mon Dec 24th 2012 at 18:09:24 Mbeti

“Misrepresenting information to manipulate the thought process of weak mined people is a approach .”

Yeah I mismangled somebodies words – guess now most of the commenters here esp african american ones will not be able to make up their own minds.

If your a mob boss and you order a hit – but you never actually say “go and kill those guys over there – and the guys(your guys) go and kill guys over there – are you guilty?
Last time I checked Mr.obama is commander in chief – his word is final as to who gets hit or not, therefor he is responsible ,the buck stops there.

But something I notice about white people espieacially when it comes to puting in work – like lynching and such – they like aninomity , they like to blend in to the background just so they do not and can not be held accountable for thier actions.

And it has nothing to do with courage or fear and everything to do with pure calculation – not reason mine you but – calculation ,whats the best,easiet way to get the job done with mininal accountibility or blowback if it comes out or goes bad.

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on Mon Dec 24th 2012 at 20:49:49 abagond

@ Billybob

I agree with Mbeti. How many times have I said “white people do x” and they say, “It wasn’t me.” Now I point to the commander in chief, the man who has Tuesday meetings on this stuff and keeps a kill list, who is a constitutional law professor, who has damn near little Congressional oversight in what he is doing in this case, who goes against international law and brings out lawyers after the fact to slip his slope and what do I get? “He is not responsible.” My fucking goodness. If Obama is going to claim credit for killing Osama bin Laden, and he does, then the blood of every single one of those children is on his hands, especially those he killed in civilian settings. And that blood is on the hands, though to a lesser degree, of every single American who looks the other way or remains wilfully blind or makes weak excuses.

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on Mon Dec 24th 2012 at 20:55:49 abagond

The lives of those children are every bit as precious and innocent as those at Newtown. And their deaths are just as horrifying. And it is sad, sad, sad that it is a matter of debate. It is a perfect example of how power dehumanizes people – and turns their hearts to stone. Just imagine if something like that were to go on for hundreds of years and become part of the culture. That is what racism is.

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on Mon Dec 24th 2012 at 20:57:12 abagond

@ Mike

“They don’t even travel anywhere without filling their vehicles with children.”

I do the same. It is called civilian life.

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on Mon Dec 24th 2012 at 22:03:25 abagond

@ Mike

“I am sure that the editor is fully aware that terrorists surround themselves with children in order to protect themselves. They don’t even travel anywhere without filling their vehicles with children.

The terrorists must be stopped, there is no other option. If that means sacrificing a couple of children for the greater good then that is how it has to be.”

By your reasoning it is all right for Al Qaeda to send a drone strike on the White House, killing not just Barack Obama but Michelle and Sasha and Malia and Mrs Robinson and the White House staff. And to rain down Hellfire missiles on the houses of every leader of the CIA and the Democratic Party, killing their families too. And to do the same to the drone engineers and operators and their families. AND it is all right to fire Hellfire missiles at these people not just at work or out on the open road but when they buy bread or go to a funeral or spend time with their grandchildren. Because they must be stopped, there is no other option. Because if you stop them you will stop America.

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on Tue Dec 25th 2012 at 09:59:21 B. R.

(http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2012/10/20121014102539659862.html)

who sounds stupid now? I hope some people dont choke on the anti american turkey bone stuck so deep in their craw their resentments overwelm them

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on Tue Dec 25th 2012 at 09:59:41 B. R.

(http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jr9wPwFrgNGBDvCs7VhAEwCJvY1g?docId=CNG.faf8df20a253202de74b7bc7ee29c335.a1)
(http://www.thefreelibrary.com/6+children+killed+by+Taliban-planted+bomb.-a0297622152)
(http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/17/world/asia/bomb-kills-civilians-in-afghanistan.html?_r=0) sais 80 percent of civilian casualties are from the taliban
(http://gulftoday.ae/portal/946e166a-a400-4a71-b932-97df47a9fde9.aspx)
(http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57468361/taliban-claims-afghanistan-bombing-which-left-6-u-s-troops-dead/)

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on Tue Dec 25th 2012 at 10:02:39 B. R.

(https://www.google.com.br/webhp?sourceid=navclient&hl=pt-BR&ie=UTF-8#q=how+many+children+killed+by+taliban+bombs&hl=pt-BR&tbo=d&site=webhp&ei=KdLVUNqUCMmS0QHG5oG4Cg&start=0&sa=N&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=67697cdc04850e33&bpcl=40096503&biw=1014&bih=546)

just go to this google link and start reading page after page of taliban attacks that kill brown children

you all dont care about brown children..what a hypocracy

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on Tue Dec 25th 2012 at 10:15:44 B. R.

the hypocracy on this thread is disgusting, what do you think the fundimentalists that were supported by the taliban were trying to do, abagond, when they sent planes to attack various usa places? they didnt care about children…your logic doesnt play out in this situation.

you cant campare a war situation with what happened at newton,afghanistan with pakistan is a seriously complex situation that cant be broken down into silly assymetric anti american cliches

you dont really care what is happening to brown skin or black skinned children in the world or you would condemn the taliban attacks that kill children in pakistan and afghanistan

your blog has very high leval discussions on racial issues,that are noble and extremly valuable

this thread is a let down and some of the comments disgusting and anti ameirican to the bone with no real international understaning what is happening

cmon kwamla…the idaho picker? satan,id like to hear what benjamin has to say about the google pages i brought in…id like to see her show those pictures

80 percent civilian deaths in afghanistan dont by the taliban…are you really following pakistan at all? people have their binoculars on backwards looking up the rectum of the usa but can look anywhere else

legion you ought to ask if you have family or freinds serving in afghanistan who could be killed by taliban planning a bombing, are you gong to hold back sending the drone in ? i thought so…by the way i caught a comment you made on south america…you read too much moan chumpski…you want to debate on brazil and the cold war?

as a matter of fact, just any of you bring your arguments over to brazzil.com just come in anywhere on the latest thread, they dont care, address “br” and ill see it and i can use the kind of apropriate language that could get me banned to answer the anti american crud i see going on here

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on Tue Dec 25th 2012 at 10:25:48 B. R.

should be “done by the taliban”

yeah, abagond, im backing my comments way down on the blog because the anger i have at these hypocracies will get me banned for sure…i smell the putrid smell of anti americanism where i live, it disgusts me the hypocracies of how people want to blame the usa for their own insecurities and problems and cant look at the whole truth

nothing wrong with looking at america’s dirt, ive commented here many times about it…but to take international history and break it down to only americas fault is silly ..take the cold war, you do know that china was killing millions in their red revolution and millions more died in their back to the feilds ideologue from the communist manifesto…millions were eliminated by the soviet union…that is why things were being fought…and it was everyone’s fault, ALL SIDES WERE TOO BLAME…indluding the oposing sides that invited in the super powers based on their own internal problems

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on Tue Dec 25th 2012 at 15:41:52 Mike Ratcliffe

> In Afghanistan what they used to do was tell the youngest recruits things like God will save them from the bombs and will accept their parents into Paradise. Children believe the bombs will kill only soldiers and infidels. They are brainwashed and beaten until they’re ready to attack. Yet the solution to this is a permit to kill Pakistan’s families and children?

I am fully aware of that and it is a travesty that these things happen. I was caught in the blast of an IRA bomb and helped save other peoples lives that the terrorists had killed. I don’t blame the terrorists, they were also indoctrinated as kids.

The point is that at that point these terrorists were very dangerous and should have been stopped at any price.

But, back to Afghanistan …

There was a guy that had planted thousands of mines in Afghanistan. These mines do not only kill American troops, they regularly kill Afghan men, women and children. The soldiers all knew who he was and that he was planting the mines but they couldn’t do anything without evidence, he was hardly secretive about it.

The military monitored him using drones and watched him plant the mines but even that was not enough for them to call in a strike. They noticed that even when planting mines he ensured that he was accompanied by children. Eventually they were able to obtain his fingerprints from one of his mines. They decided to strike and killed 5 children with him purely because this way they saved hundreds, maybe thousands of men, women and children’s lives.

Unfortunately the only thing that makes the news is that the children were killed.

Those kinds of decisions are absolutely not taken lightly. Incidentally, I am not American.

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on Tue Dec 25th 2012 at 15:58:45 Kwamla

@ B.R

B.R., what the hell are you talking about?

Sorry, B.R but you appear to have flipped! Or been bitten by some patriotic rabid American dog!

Terrorism is homegrown as most of the “supposedly” lone male, white killers, sadly and violently,, demonstrate. The US are primarily responsible for much of the growth in terrorist atrocities taken place on this planet. And it doesn’t matter how many other countries you could point to. America leads them. Hence their currently exclusive use in technological war drones.

Furthermore, the US has been lying to its people about the costs and purpose of the supposed “war on terror” for decades. This goes deep than any anger or rage you could possibly muster for anti-American hypocrisy on the killing of innocent children

You really need to dig down a bit more deeper into these issues (like you’ve done with African drum rhythms) otherwise you may end up looking a lot more foolish yourself!.

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on Tue Dec 25th 2012 at 19:23:27 sam

@mike:
Well, if we think like you perhaps do, that all is fair in war, then do not bitch about 911. That was an act of war, according to your logic. After all, the target was one of the most important financial centers in the west, not to mention its symbolic value in the whole world, so by hitting WTC the enemy was thinkin just like you: it is regrettable that there will be some collateral damage, but hey: it is war, after all, and sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. Right?

Wrong. The reason there are international laws and regulations is to protect us all. You and me and the kids of any afgan. Once we piss on these, no one is safe anymore. US lost its moral support after 911 once it started to behave just like Al Qaida, with the same logic, the one logic you support. Torture is ok when done for a good reason. Killing civilians to get what one wants is ok. What is not ok?

I mean, the nazis thoughed the same way. It was ok to gas and burn millions of people because that was the one way to win the race war in their heads. Like Rudolf Höss, the commendant of Aushwitz said: I did not enjoy killing thousands of people but somebody had to do it and it was my job. Necessary evil, like George W. Bush and his guys used to say. I do not know what Obama calls it. National security perhaps.

You see? Once killing children becomes unavoidable and accepted, it really becomes normal. It is right now. There will be facebook sites, loads of speeches and books, perhaps a tv-movie etc. about this massacre but nothing will change. Kids will be killed in USA like flies. White kids, black kids, kids of all shapes and sizes. Why?

Because it is ok. If one feels that he has to kill kids to get what he wants, morally he is on the same page as you are. Sometimes you just have to kill few kids and it is ok. Perhaps to kill the terrorist hiding behind those kids, or perhaps because I am angry and frustrated and there is a black kid with a hoodie. Same moral principle. It is ok to kill those kids to get what I want. You understand the problem here?

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on Wed Dec 26th 2012 at 11:23:34 abagond

@ B.R.

I am hardly a fan of the Taliban:

https://abagond.wordpress.com/2007/08/10/taliban/

But their evil does not excuse our evil. Unless of course we want to become just like them.

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on Wed Dec 26th 2012 at 11:41:23 abagond

@ B.R.

“I hope some people dont choke on the anti american turkey bone stuck so deep in their craw their resentments overwhelm them”

You are pushing a blind patriotism which is both dangerous and idiotic.

As an American citizen I have not only the right to speak against American foreign policy but, in fact, a DUTY to do so where I think it has gone wrong.

Obama’s drone policy is off the chain. Pointing that out hardly means that I am anti-American. Anything but.

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on Wed Dec 26th 2012 at 11:46:15 abagond

@ B.R.

“break it down to only americas fault is silly “

Pointing out an evil does not mean it is the only one. And other evils hardly excuse it:

https://abagond.wordpress.com/2012/05/30/whites-are-not-uniquely-evil/

https://abagond.wordpress.com/2009/10/03/the-arab-trader-argument/

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on Wed Dec 26th 2012 at 12:58:39 B. R.

My point here, Abagond, its a complex situation that cant be just broken down to simple fables or catch phrases, Im saying America is already dirty, but without seeing it in the context of the whole dirty world, the complexity of the situation, etc, the truth gets skeward in the process…Like Ive said, Ive criticised America fluently on here, but there are people who just have never said one positive thing about America here at all except rave about American hits…in the end, they are more than happy to point out what is really wrong with black American …no Im not atracted to the juicy drum stick, it tastes horrible and I spit it out and see it for exactly what it is, and this bitter drum stick tries to acuse me of stalking and putting her down as a black woman, get over yourself…because I get to smell the putrid smell where ive been living for 26 years so I recognise it and despise it for what it is..i see the hypocracy and the blaming of America for their problems that they created for themselves

A million people died in Afghanistans own civil war, the country has a violent history even before America even was a country… Pakistan is plauged by huge amounts of problems that if you just break it down to America involvement in Afghanistan, that becomes silly…Mumbai was just a rosy peice of work, wasnt it?I guess America is responsible for that? or how about the Bhutto assasination? I guess America is to blame for that? In a discusion like this, to not mention the true dynamic of the whole situation is an injustice, if you really follow Pakstan, you will see these bombs that kill children by the Islamic terrorists going off all the time

Kwamla, if you think Im just bitten by the American flag, its too bad, especialy as I said, Ive criticised America a lot on here, too bad you missed that, and lable me what you have…I mean you brought in the Idaho picker, he is the third cousin to some of the big racists coming in here…its great when people looking for conspiracies in America with the world hold hands with the conspircy theory racists who hate Obama and black people and think there is a conspicy against them, I think you missed some subtleties that I know about that you overlooked about the Idaho picker …I hate the kind of anti Americanism that blames America for all the ills in the world, and cant even take responsibility for their own back yards and the problems they have created for themselves

Sam, Legion UN laws? The UN is not the beakon of justice and logic in the world…and neither is America, make no mistake…and, many of these notions of justice have been totaly thrown into confusion by what kind of the amount of Islamic terrorist civilian bombings that have been taking place for a while now…there were no real “rules ” about how to deal with these kind of actions…people who dont represent a country…its become assymetric…people would have hated america if it just did drone attacks in Afghanistan, they hate them for invading Afghanistan, I hate America for invading Iraq, not Afghanistan, people would have liked America to just take it up the rectum and do nothing, that is the only thing that would have satisfied them

Legion, the truth is, the Taliban are killing more civilians than American bombs, way more, and they did it before America got there, the thing you have think about is ( at least acknowledging the fact that the USA was going into Afghanistan no matter what, they did harbor aid and abbet Bin Laden and co, unless you think America should have done nothing in which case I strongly disagree), if you want to speak in fables, like is going on here , you have to see that killing a Taliban with a drone, that may unfortunatly kill children, 159 so far, you are saving more brown skinned Pakastani children and Afghanistan children, including girls who can go study in school now and listen to music, because Taliban kill more children than the Americans do ( the south Amercan referance is to something you said on Peanut’s thread andother referances you have made to moan chumpski, go to brazzil dot com, come in on the most recent thread, bring up my name br, ill be happy to go into exactly why moan chumpski , who you respect, is full of hypocracy about America involvement in South America, again, everyone was dirty)

That is the thing here, Abagond, Im saying this situation is far more complex than you are making it out to be, and, it is totaly false anyone thinking Im saying dont criticise America, that is bs as usual coming from that party, whose analysis leaves so much to be desired…I mean look at some of these comments on here ( I dont care if people dont cry at the massacers, that isnt the bs Im talking about), and, I suggest to you, that when you take this position against Obama, using this logic about the Taliban versus the Newton massacre,you are stepping out of your customary strong and valuable voice for the black American community and taking a position that doesnt represent the total opinion of the black American community, you are in differant territory, that deserves to be scrutinised along with the hypocricies of moan chumpski , naomi wats, oliver stones skeward tribute to Hugo Chaves, and sometimes Michial Moore, comon Abagond, the 4 million statistic that you mentioned is totaly biased, there was an opisition that killed half if not more than the Americans, everyone is dirty, we already are, we already sank to that leval, but, it really is a dirty world

Nobody would have mentioned the Taliban using children to do bombs or the statistic that they are responsible for more civilian deaths than Americans….and before America ever got there, in a big way…I think that sais a lot for the leval of discusion on here on this thread , how biased it actualy is

Im speaking out on this , someone’s dumb notion Im stalking them will just have to take a back seat, because the stench of false anti Amerianism deserves to be scrutinised more than some bs conniving manipulations to put me in a bad light…Im more than happy to go back to listening mode before I get myself banned on here, but, those of you who want to get for real with the kind of language that I find apropriate for false anti Americanism , dont hesitate to go to brazzil dot com so I can tell you how I really feel about it..just come in the most recent thread and ill see you..dont worry there are people there who think like you

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on Wed Dec 26th 2012 at 13:07:31 B. R.

Please, Abagond, just because you wrote threads on these subjects with a back porch fable aproach, that you can use with your kids, doesnt aply with the complexity of international politics, I dont have to agree with every thread you wrote…like, yes, I will talk about the evils and racism of the Arab slave trade in Africa

Im waiting for a longer comment to be un moderated as for a more involved responce

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on Wed Dec 26th 2012 at 13:29:01 B. R.

comon Abagond, you can unlock the moderation, you posted while I was writing, there is nothing offensive in my post

I didnt really question at all your right to criticise , did I? go right ahead, I just have a right to tell you I think you are wrong on this one…blind American patriotism, give me a break , I have been offering lots of posts criticising America, I dont accept that from you at all, save that for Ameicans who never lived outside the USA who really think the USA wasnt dirty in the world, you seem blinded by the people who only tell one side of the whole truth and buy into it as fact, I dont agree with you about Obamas drone policy..just like I will talk about the evils of the Arab slave trade and their racism…dont put that bs like Im saying that makes american slavery ok or justifies it…spare me

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on Wed Dec 26th 2012 at 19:53:13 abagond

@ B.R.

Of the comments you submitted over the past hour I deleted all but the one to Kwamla. I am assuming the others were attempts to get your comment of Wed 26 Dec 2012 at 12:58:39 through moderation, which which is now public:

https://abagond.wordpress.com/2012/12/17/obama-cries-for-white-children/#comment-154694

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on Wed Dec 26th 2012 at 20:11:19 B. R.

ok thanks abagond, and, just to guarentee im not going to get myself banned, im starting to address you legion , about south america right here on this blog , just come in and scroll down

http://www.brazzil.com/component/content/article/253-december-2012/10605-world-cup-and-olympics-just-another-example-of-brazils-perverted-generosity.html

this is where i can get comfortable about how i feel about anit americanism and say what i want to say and not get banned

beleive me, im talking about controling myself not criticising your polocies, abagond , i know when im getting close to the boiling point and i dont want to erupt on here

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on Wed Dec 26th 2012 at 22:18:45 abagond

@ B.R.

“I guess America is responsible for that? or how about the Bhutto assasination? I guess America is to blame for that?”

I wrote about that and did not blame America for it:

https://abagond.wordpress.com/2007/12/07/benazir-bhutto/

“In a discusion like this, to not mention the true dynamic of the whole situation is an injustice, if you really follow Pakstan, you will see these bombs that kill children by the Islamic terrorists going off all the time”

The evils of the Taliban and Al Qaeda are well known. Plenty of people can name Malala (the girl the Taliban tried to kill for wanting girls to go to school) who cannot name a single Pakistani child killed by American drones. Why is that? Who is leaving out what?

If you want the true dynamic then you need to go back further than 9/11. America did not arrive on the scene in 2001 as a wronged innocent. In the 1980s it backed Islamist guerrillas to fight the Soviet Union. It backed even Osama bin Laden. These guys did not drop from the sky. The CIA and the ISI, its Pakistani counterpart, put guns and rocket launchers in their hands. THEY created this hell.

And you can go back further still to the 1970s: America backed Pakistan and turned a blind eye when Pakistan massacred a million Bangladeshis, maybe as many as 3 million – the intelligentsia, refugees, Hindus. I did not find out about it till I knew people from Bangladesh. Why is that? Who is leaving out what?

Experts expect the drone war to go on at least another ten years. Translation:

AMERICA IS NOT INTERESTED IN PEACE. IT IS INTERESTED IN SELLING ARMS.

High-tech war in poor parts of the world means $$$$. Drones are a dream come true: endless war and war profits without a single American killed. How cool is that?

You can defend this sickness. I will not.

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on Wed Dec 26th 2012 at 22:45:00 dave

^^^^^Good point here Abagond. Well I would then ask this question. If American law makers now want to ban legally owned guns from it’s citizens, then shouldn’t they then lead by example and stop the flow of these guns into third world countries? Seems pretty hypocritical to me.

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on Thu Dec 27th 2012 at 03:42:22 Joseph Brant

Obama does not cry for Trayvon Martin? The second he acknowledged that there was a racial component to his murder, the media and the Republicans pounced on him as a “racist.”

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on Thu Dec 27th 2012 at 07:10:44 sam

@BR:
Well, UN is not a fantasy Lalala Do-Good organisation made by fairies and angels. It is a global organisation composed by its member states. Nothing more, nothing less. I know it is very fashionable in USA (and has been in the past three decades) to blast UN, accuse it from anything from New World Order (term actually brought up into politics by George Bush the elder) to crappy economical countability.

Yes. It has its flaws. BUT it has kept the world from going into WW3 few times. And during the age of atomic weapons, that has been a nice thing, I think.

It also has provided guidelines for us to behave: children should not be killed, slaved etc. Yes, it still happens BUT the UN has said publicly that it is not ok. It is not ok to torture, do genocides, form fascits regimes, slave people etc.

It is nice that international organisation has stated this out loudly and keeps doing so. It is sad that some oif its member states, like USA, do not follow the rules and regulations which they themselkves have been forming and deciding, but it is hell of a lot better than nothing.

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on Thu Dec 27th 2012 at 09:58:47 B. R.

Sam, I remember the UN standing by in the Congo , when huge amounts of black kids were either getting killed , raped or drafted as child solders, and then having some members implicated for rape. I just dont consider them the end all be all beacon to look at, heck, it was invented by the USA, that should tell you something right there

Abagond, like I said, the USA is dirty, but it always amazes me when people do the “you trained them (for gods sake dont say anything about the madrasses in Pakistan) about Bin Laden..didnt you ever see the picture of Stalin sitting with Churchill, Roosevelt ? I mean we could learn so much by really understanding world war 2 and how the dynamc of the cold war bounced off of that as well as the middle east dynamic, we have forgotten so much of the real lessons. And this whole thing about “the USA armed thus and so , so , that is why they got attacked”…I mean for crying out loud, we lost in Viet Nam, do you have any ex vets setting off bombs in China or the Russia because they armed the Viet Cong or North Viet Nam ? This is totaly holding the USA up to standards no one holds anyone else up to(big card in the anti American playbook, you know, the one written by the Soviet Union with Fidels snot all over it and now revised by the new wave of people that dont want to really criticse the stupidity of what Islamic Fundamentalism means, as far as im concerned all fundamentalist religious positions are ones I despise, just to make it very clear to you or anyone else, I despise equaly fundamentalist religious zealots that push their bs on the world) .

I mean if you could have said something like “even though the Taliban kill more children than the USA and actualy recruit children to be suicide bombers blah blah…” then I could respect what you are saying more , and I wouldnt even be in here on this thread …it seems like what ever information you think is asumed about the Taliban and Al Quaeda is forgotten and only 159 deaths are sceamed about as bloody murder…

Why dont we just drop the hypocracy and embrace our positions, Ill embrace that I support Obama and what he is doing in Afghanistan and Pakistan ,and I want him to go after the Taliban and people like the American Al Qaeda ,I like standing up to Ismalic Fundamentalist terrorism , and you embrace your anti Americanisms where you will have thread like this , and not mention one word that the Taliban kill more children than the USA and actualy create children to be suicide bombers ( a past thread on the Taliban is not a good enough represention of the real picture of what this thread is about) , and scream bloody murder at the USA,and hide behind “the children” with no referance to the bloody murder by the other side, and tie it in with a “tic(god ive seen other pictures of obama with the finger up in his eye, its his tic at showing greif) ” by Obama and the bad taste of linking it to the Newton massacer, something that will be forgoten in a month, by the way…the whole world is full of hypocracy, whereever men strap on guns, children are forgotten real fast…dont ever forget that…

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on Thu Dec 27th 2012 at 19:03:44 sam

@BR:
I did not say UN is flawless. The UN soldiers are soldiers from member states. They are not UN army but men sent in by a member state or member states. Yes, the use of particulary troops have caused some problems such as raping, prostitution etc. but some UN troops have done ok, like those in south Lebanon, concerning the situation. Some have even died trying to protect the local civilians from the israeli terror bombings etc.

As for your vietnam vets vs. Al Qaida comparison, I recommend a few books about the soviet war in Afganistan and some about the Vietnam war. One of the mujahedin leaders, Gulbuddin Hektmatyar, leader of one of the most fanatical islamist guerilla forces, received a huge load of US weapons, including Stingers etc. He stated many times, to the media, to US CIA agents and special forces guys, many times, that once USSR is done with, it is your turn. What did the US do? Yes, train his men, arm then, financed them etc. One of his mujahedins was a arab kid named Osama bin Laden.

The one sensible and moderate and truly heroic rersistance leader was the Lion of Panshir Valley, who fought for the whole duration of the war alone against Red Army, without outside help, on the border of USSR. He did not get any US aid at any time and he was murdered by US trained and financed and backed islamists. With him died a hope for any sensible future of that land.

The vietnamese guerillas fought on their home soil, supported by North Vietnamese government, which wanted to unify the land split by the previous war with colonial power France. They had no religious motives. They had no any other agenda. They fought for their own country, right or wrong. They said: USA go home. They did not say: once you go, we come after you. Yes, communist countries supported them at one time or another but communist China attacked Vietnam in 1979, less than four years after the war had ended.

The mujahedins USA trained, armed and financed in Afganistan 1977-88 told the americans early on that once we have wiped out USSR, it will be your turn. They were not fooling around, They meant it. But USA, thinking that the enemy of my enemy is my friend, kept on building them up. And thus became Al Qaida and the rest of them.

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on Thu Dec 27th 2012 at 19:11:38 sam

@BR:
You can start your education from here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmad_Shah_Massoud

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on Thu Dec 27th 2012 at 22:04:39 abagond

@ B.R.

“I mean if you could have said something like “even though the Taliban kill more children than the USA and actualy recruit children to be suicide bombers blah blah…” then I could respect what you are saying more , and I wouldnt even be in here on this thread”

I wrote a post about 9/11. Should I go back and add: “even though Americans kill more Americans than Al Qaeda blah blah blah”. Would you then have more respect for what I said in that post? After all, Americans killed 15,980 of their own in 2001 compared to Al Qaeda’s 2,996.

One evil does not excuse another.

In the case of Pakistan it is not even a mitigating circumstance. You are, in effect, arguing that America should hold itself to the same low moral standard as the Taliban.

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on Fri Dec 28th 2012 at 01:01:00 Mbeti

I just had a thought about Barrack Obama And Michelle Robinson his wife.
They are not stupid nor naive people ,they know both the history and the current policies of the american government they choose to be a intimate part of.
They knew they ,specifically he would be in charge of among many other things – ordering and overseeing the killing of many people.

They most probably had and have known just how far they could go in reforming or changing the policy of the american government.

The real questions are – what do they actually care about as sapiens?
Do they care that they will be overseeing a brutal empire?
Do they even interpret america this way?

And a personal interpretive note on this ,Michelle Robinson ,Mr.Obama’s wife immediately struck me not so much as a beautiful women (though I will not deny her attractiveness) but as a mean or cruel looking person.

Remember I did not vote for him the first or the second time,
a system and society as corrupt primitive and cruel as this one does not deserve nor need my participation.

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on Fri Dec 28th 2012 at 03:59:56 jefe

I found it interesting that the list could only be culled from various news reports. If the government does not name the children, then why couldn’t a NGO produce this list and make it public. It would only have to be done once – no need for myriad individual bloggers to cull their own list.

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on Fri Dec 28th 2012 at 11:13:52 B. R.

gees, Sam, you missread my point totaly, the act of being allied and arming the Taliban and Al Quaeda through Pakistan refers to the picture you see of Stalin , Churchill and Roosevelt, meaning, the lesson being, at one minute, people can be allied together and fighting an enemy in common and the next minute, they can be at each others throat as enemies…which is exactly what happened, and i find the “wow look how the USA armed and trained them” naive in that context…its right there in front of us from the lessons of World War 2

The point about Vets and how they havent done bombings in China and Russia ( they did help the Viet Cong even if they were at each others throats later, same point as above) is in relation to how so many people like Bin Laden based much of their hate of the USA because they armed Israel..or had troops , with the permision of the Saudi leaders, on the land of Mecca….so my point is, that sure is some abstract reasoning to bomb the world trade center…I mean seriously, that is obtuse and ridiculas , in fact and speaks to the fundalmental religious fantatic mentality that is driving some people to think they can terrorise the world with their “my god sais it is ok to slaughter people in the name of my religion” mentality…that needs to be stood up to

Bravo, your article makes all my points forcefully, the cold war reality, how brutal the communists were, the suuni , shiite conflict that is the real reality at what is underneath so much violence in the mid east, the absolute ruthlessnes of the Taliban , how a million people died in their civil war (by the way, I have a neice who is part Afghan, part Indian and the rest from my brother, and her grandfather was a high official who was ousted by the communists, so I have had some insights before 9/11, and, of course I know about Moussad, a great fighter) as well as the fact that Pakistan is extremly involved in all ways against the middle and I dont trust them. It also most definitly makes more powerfully than anything, the exact point Im saying, THIS IS AN EXTRAORDINARILY COMPLEX SITUATION THAT CANT BE BROKEN DOWN INTO FABLES FOR RAISING OUR KIDS LIKE “TWO RIGHTS DONT MAKE A WRONG”…. that was my main point, focusing on 159 children killed by drones and not acknowledging the huge complexities of what is going on is not right in my humble opinion

And look, I am saying the USA is dirty, we have made stupid mistakes, havent worn the mantle of the most powerful nation well, I am not a country bumkin saying “USA USA we are number one and we fight for democracy around the world” , I only know too well that we overthrew democracies all over the world, yet, look at the opisition…look what they were doing…you cant site all the USA bases around the world and not recognise the KGB was everywhere trying to do the same thing, they sure were in Brazil..I think you should educate yourself on Brazil, you can start here,
http://www.brazzilmag.com/component/content/article/116-november-2012/12968-which-was-brazils-role-in-operation-condor-it-created-and-led-the-murderous-plan.html
people scream like the USA was totaly responsible for running what was happening in South America dictatorships…not

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on Fri Dec 28th 2012 at 11:40:26 B. R.

Abagond, let me say up front, I dont think any post you have made about racial issues in America is anti American…I am in agreement with you on so many things about that….

I am not directly saying you are anti American, I say your take on the USA and international politics plays into anti American bias, it reads off the Soviet Union propaganda page with Fidel’s snot over it , and modified by todays Islamic fundalmentalist hatred of the USA…when they start quoting off it (like lets start history with the A bomb in Japan, dont even mention it was in World War 2 ,one of the worlds most dirty events of all time with more than 40millin dead, only rivaled by the amount of deaths due to communism) you know the bias is all over it…

Funny you would mention American gun running into Pakistan that contributed to the event you mentioned, I wonder why you never would do a thread or even a little post about how blow hard Hugo Chavez aided , abetted, and sent arms to The Farc, the marxist terrorist thug drug dealers and kidnappers, and how that ties him in with contributing to a huge amount of deaths of Afro diasporic children in Brazil since the hook ups of Farc to gigantic Brazilian drug gangs. This is well documented since Fernando Beiramar was captured with the Farc 11 years or so ago…in debates on other blogs, I have linked the Farc hookup in Brazil to various large distribution points of coke and arms all over the country…to be sure Farc is not the only player in this desimation of Brazilian youth through crack cocaine and arms infiltration, but they sure have a big role and that implicates Hugo Chavez also..and just yesterday I woke up to the Globo news anouncement that Brazil is now the largest user of crack cocaine in the world…the death toll because of arms deaths is more than Iraq..these are the black and brown skinned Afro diasporic children that are being slaughtered…but, you dont know about it or I doubt you would implicate Hugo Chavez the way you would implicate the USA and its gun running

My point to you is stated above, this is a complex situation that doesnt work with fables

I got mad respect for you, Abagond, I just dont see eye to eye with your biased skewed international outlook…seriously, to you too , Sam, if you cant state the dirt of the other side in the same magnifying glass you put USA policy under ( not that both of you havent made somestatements that do shed some light on the other side, but not hardly the whole story), and what the whole context is, it is biased information that just doest give the real overview

I support Obama, I hope the troops come home, and I beleive he will bring them home in 2014, my big respects to anyone on this blog who served in the armed forces in the USA or who have family who served or who are now serving, because you are getting shafted on here by some people ( not saying you , Abagond or you Sam)

hey jefe ,how about the list of the afghan children killed by the taliban? i guess it would be too too long for this page

hypocracy is a hades of a thing , isnt it?

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on Fri Dec 28th 2012 at 15:52:00 sam

@BR. Your point being?

If you wish to discuss about US role in the dictatorships of Latin America, it will a whole another issue, but let me say one thing for you; School of Americas, Check that one out.

It is nice that you have a brazilian wife and all, that you live in Brazil, but howcome you never bring any recent topic about Brazil into our discussion table? Howconme you never comment on any political situation, federal or state level issues etc.? After all, there is a hell of a lot going on in Brazil all the time. I never saw you mention even that when brazilian government told US ecomonic advisers No thanks few years ago.

I would very much like hear what you think about the situation on those pine tree fields some finnish companies have put up on native soil.

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on Fri Dec 28th 2012 at 19:56:24 B. R.

Sam, thanks for asking, Id love to say a lot about Brazil, its hard to find a thread that it wouldnt be derailing…I did say some things on the Europe thread, I would love to say more

(Abagond, Ill hope you can except this next testimony as in the spirit of how I am trying to show how I feel examples of anti Americanism develped, how they can affect thinking like you can see on this thread and how I think the whole story needs to be told)

Sam, yes , I know all about the School of the Americas , where military from many of the dictatorships in South America went and trained…and yes, they trained them about torture among other things, more like how to do it better with less damage than these people did before…now, ive seen docus ( I bet we have seen a lot of the same docus about Americas wrong doing in the world, they run them inscesantly on one small local channal down here, over and over, I watch to learn all I can about what anti Americans are saying to understand them and find the things I think are wrong, when they are there) that interviewed people who had participated in their attempt to over throw the dictatorship and quite a few of them said that they had trained in either China, The Soviet Union, or Cuba, how to make bombs, kidnap and rob banks etc, and they said they were marxist and were inspired by Che to have a violent revolution . So, both sides trained with the perspective super powers.

Of course the CIA was down there, and, that is one of the things people always scream about, but , I saw a casual news show interview , where they had an ex KGB agent say they had spies in the military, congress, universaties and media…but no one points that out .

There is a class war now going on and it pretty much breaks down in color lines, and it is based on the gigantic drug trade I mentioned and the huge gangs, and , on the one side just an example, the PCC, the huge Sao Paulo gang just did a month or so of huge attacks on the police and also burning buses, they even had it co ordinated with the gangs where I live , about an hour flight south of Sao Paulo and, I dont have a car and use public transport , and they burned a bus on my line…on the other side , the police, they still do torture, just like you see in the film “Tropa do Elite”, and they assasinate drug traficars, more than ever were in the military dictatorship (most all the sources I read about people killed by the dictatorship was near1000 and the oposition killed near 500 in about 18 years time ) and they sent the military up to the favelas to take them over..kind of ironic since the president was a prisoner in the military dictatorship, i actualy respect her very much and think its great she could survive , and actualy be president, it sais a lot about the country..but, its funny they make a huge deal of the dictatorship years, all of the south america dictators eventualy allowed democracy to flourish but Castro brothers still rule with an iron hand…something notable I think, especialy since the winners down here are from the workers parties, th eones repressed in the dictatorship

Sorry dont know about the Finnish story, Id like to know

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on Fri Dec 28th 2012 at 20:21:34 B. R.

about the economic advisers, yes, Sam, Lula and his PT party, brought Brazil up in a very strong way, most important, their money started to get strong, that is why i hate a weak dollar…I knew we were going down the tubes as soon as the dollar started a steady decline since Bush came in, I saw what a declining currancy on a rollar coaster ride could do to an economy, here in Brazil in the late 80’s and 90’s, horrific….and , under Lula, they something amazing happened, and, they were able to pay the World Bank off, and gain more hedgomy over USA dominance…I think that is fantastic

I have seen your comments on the money, and Ive seen those docus too, I know hyper capatalism is a very bad state to be in and I always hope for capatalism with a conciounce. Yes, there is a military industrial complex, and, corporocracy that has to be dealt with…yet, I still beleive , for example, the state of communism is much worse, heck there is a communist party in every state and their dogma and regimental rhetoric is frightening…I went out and bought the communist manisfesto just to try to get what they really mean, and, wow is it flawed…

and so , trying to tie this in with this thread, that is why I think that people have to know the whole story to understand…I cant seperate the children killed by the USA drone attacks with the children killed by the Taliban…they are children of Aghanistan (Pakistan also), you have to see the whole backdrop and the link I brought in from Al Jazeera no less, no bias there , has to be extremly relevant to this discussion

That is why , in Brazil, when the anti Americans scream about there hate for what America did to them in the dictatorship, its good to know the whole story…including, did you know they had a communist revolt in the early 30’s in Brazil, and Russian spies down there? It was put down and the purpatrators were tortured also…why all the attention and distortion of the USA? Its the same drama they had before, but , the people who lost to the dictators, use the USA as the big boogy man to blame , and even local politicians use the USA as a boogy man to win…and that is what I see happening in some of the depictions of the USA in this Afghanistan war….man, Iraq was some of the most disgusting examples of American Imperialism ever, and Bush and Chenny are people who I do consider have courted evil

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on Fri Dec 28th 2012 at 20:38:34 B. R.

About USA presence in Afghanistan, Abagond or Sam, Im curious, it seems that before 9/11, India and Pakistan were always on the brink of having a nuclear exchange

Do you think that the USA presence has somwhat difused the situation between those two countries because of huge payoffs of course? its not like its ended, but, those two countries were squaring off big time, I wonder if there would be a huge clash if Mumbai happened with no USA presence?

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on Sat Dec 29th 2012 at 05:11:13 shareen w

in response to diaryofanegress
excellent info and wisdom- it is comforting to hear of another sista who can read btn the lines on this admin. I was so elated at first – now, heartbroken. yes, these are all staged events. why can’t people see through this? not saying that the death’s in newtown weren’t real. tptb best control thru fear eg pearl harbor, ok city, nyc sept 2001, aurora: all fear. and yes, people dig deep. like you, I used to run with some ‘players’ and saw and learned enough to know to distance myself from the deceit and carnival of bloodlust that accompany fame and power. yes, dig deep. for instance, you’d be surprised who’s in the club of rome that’s also part of this admin. oh, but now I’m rattling some deep hidden cages…
cui bono? cui bono?
ps. read your blog.diaryofanegress. passionate. great work.
wake up to the drone strikes and how many children die.
how many children are abducted each year -where do they end up? cui bono?

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on Sat Dec 29th 2012 at 06:04:19 Mbeti

@abagond ,I was just visiting my facebook page and guess what – this page’s Original Title – obama-cries-for-white-children – is how the title of this page appears on my facebook share – no I don’t want to remove it – however if anyone has a problem with that please fill out this form – http://telcomcorp.wordpress.com/?attachment_id=398
Thank you

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on Sat Dec 29th 2012 at 07:18:57 King

yes, dig deep. for instance, you’d be surprised who’s in the club of rome that’s also part of this admin.

Careful shareen w.

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on Sat Dec 29th 2012 at 10:31:45 B. R.

For me, I just despie religious fanatacism of all religions, the Taliban and Al Quaeda are the exact same mentalities as the abortion killing doctors, the olympic bomber, unibomber, oaklahoma bomber, these crazed mass shooters…but especialy these abortion killing doctors who think in the name of their religion they can take a life…as far as Im concerned, if they know these people are going to do this, I have no qualms about them getting taken out

Actualy , the most vived case in America, that relates to children getting killed like in this thread, is the FBI going after David Koerch (sp?). The religious fanatic in Texas (I beleive), who was having sex with young girls and stocking fire arms.The FBI went after him and he set a fire that killed lots of the children there.Where Tim Mcvie , hated the government for it, decided to blow up children and did the oaklahoma bombing, I dont blame the FBI, they were suposed to go after this scum bag. Its extremly sad these children died in the process but i hold Koerich totaly responsible.

Its a huge sadness that huge amounts of children die in conflicts all over the world. As I said, when men strap on guns, childrens interests are lost, and there are a whole lot of conflicts going on in the world …where Iraq is a disgusting display of American imperialism and violence, and every American should feel sick in the gut about the innocent people who died because of it, the Taliban and Al Quaeda are our conflict, they hit us on 9/11, for pretty much abstract reasons I mentioned above. There is no sitting president who could have not done anything about Al Quaeda being supported by the Taliban in Afghanistan…and no matter what action they would have taken, some inncents would have gotten killed. I cant think of a scenario of reprisal where some innocents would not be killed

The Pakistan army , actualy allows Americans to use drones because the Taliban are bombing them and killing many Pakistan children, even if they try to seem like they dont like it, they are allowing it for that exact reason…the truth is, huge amounts of people of Islam are victoms of these religious fanatics and they hate it and secretly allow Americans to go after these fanatics

I support anyone anywhere for standing up to these religious fanatics, and I mean all religious fanatics,not just Islamic religious fanatics

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on Sat Dec 29th 2012 at 11:01:56 B. R.

With all due respect to Truthbetold/Diarie…she wont speak to white people , but she will buy into conspiracy theory books written by white men….Ive seen lots of information on thes “ilumanati” conspiracies and I just think its a bunch of frat boy , good old boy netework of giving each other breaks…you do know there are alot of black masonic temple’s out there, right?

Sam, I remember once, in a discusion on here with you I had, I mentioned about the Red Army, and you came back and said something like “you think you know about the Red Army, Ill tell you about that, we live next to the Red Army, the Russkies, on our border…”, that is paraphrasing, but, I liked what you said, it was short and breif but conveyed in a big way the ominous spector of actualy having the reality on your border

And it reminds me, that when I was young going to school,and practicing the “get under your desk to practice for when the nuclear bombs from the Soviet Union will hit you, practice how to survive a nuclear blast” and the siren that would go off all over Chicago on Teusday nights to make sure it works (imagine the panic when the Chicago White Sox won the baseball American league pennant for the right to go play the world serius in 1959, and some nut case set off that siren), then I could actualy watch TV news and see Kruschev banging on the UN table and saying “We will bury you…”. I mean that is serious, that made a very powerful impresion on me .There were very real reasons the dirty cold wars had to be engaged in, dirty wars that killed many innocents yet, the oposing superpowers were invited in , whether by aid or actual boots on the ground, by both oposing sides in the perspective countries

Quite a bit of Americas dirt happened in this cold war period, yet, communism had to be stood up to.Where Viet Nam was lied about to enter,as far as the Korean war, how can anyone argue with the reality between the differances of North and South Korrea?, And , Islamic fanatic threats have to be stood up to, they are trying to hit us, the shoe bomber, the detroit bomber with traces to Yemen, the guy who tried to set a bomb off in mid town Manhattan, the list goes on, various cases are being tried, the differance is , they didnt succeed so its no big deal…but it is for real…yes, the Taliban and Al Quaeda is our conflict, and , its very sad that innocent children are being killed in drone strikes, but unless we all , all over the world , decide to hold hands and say that no more children are going to be killed anywhere in the world because of conflicts by men with guns, it is hypocritical to me to focus only on the children unfortunatly killed in these strikes

But, these fanatics actualy think they can terrorise anyone anywhere with a bomb going off in civilian populations…I have no qualms what so ever that these sob’s are being terrorised now

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on Sat Dec 29th 2012 at 11:33:14 B. R.

I have comment in moderation about conspiricy theories , I think I used the phrase “good old b.y network” i think b.y is a word that gets flagged…

But speaking of conspiricy theories, I would hope that after reading the fine link Sam brouht in about Moussad and how he tried to warn the USA of what was coming from Bin Laden (yes, that was really dumb of the USA to ignore that and not support Moussad back then), that we could finaly put aside all the ridiculous conspiricy theories that it was an inside job on 9/11

I especialy laugh at the notion a missle hit the pentagon…there was a jornalist interveiwed on news shows occaisionaly, Olson is I think her name, she died in that flight going into the pentagon, I mean its a fact, or , do people think the Bush people are hiding her somewhere? I mean it boggles the mind

King, if Im not mistaken, you mentioned that you were in the armed forces, Im wondering how you feel with one of the statements on here seriously condemning any American serving in the military? I could be wrong that you were in the service, but Im just curious on your opinion , if you were…I happen to know , even worked for some exceptional black American individuals who served in Viet Nam…they were incredible indivicuals, one an exceptional athelete who joined the marines and came back with a mettle plate in his head, another guy , i worked for him, he was a singer, he was a tunnel rat in Viet Nam, that takes real courage, and he was one beautiful individual, no, I dont condemn anyone serving in the USA military, I support the men and women that serve in the military

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on Sat Dec 29th 2012 at 16:42:24 Kwamla

@ B.R

But speaking of conspiricy theories, I would hope that after reading the fine link Sam brouht in about Moussad and how he tried to warn the USA of what was coming from Bin Laden (yes, that was really dumb of the USA to ignore that and not support Moussad back then), that we could finaly put aside all the ridiculous conspiricy theories that it was an inside job on 9/11

Its obvious from the tirade of pro-military American comments you’ve been making that you seriously need to do some proper research and start to wake up!

You are really deluding yourself about those controlling and behind America’s elite power institutions. This is Factual and is no conspiracy theory. But then you are not alone. It really is difficult to fully comprehend the machinations and complexities of what is going on behind the scenes which defies public scrutiny. Most of the comments you’ve made here don’t even begin to touch the real facts wrapped up in these issues. But that’s simply because you haven’t been privy to them.

If the truth were ever to officially come out about 9/11 it would probably look something like this.

The detail and complexity involved in piecing together much of the information and sources involved here is far more than most people can handle. Which is probably the No.1 reason the US government was able to get way with it. And its the PRIMARY reason why people like you – B.R – now need to WAKE UP!

B.R…Do your self a favour and stop embarrassing yourself further with these pointless pro America comments.

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on Sat Dec 29th 2012 at 19:04:03 sam

@BR:

Anti americanism? Really? I love american music, movies, litterature, art. I even love some americans. I do not hate those. I am not hating some poor schmuck who has been recruited into army from the streets of South Central and sent to foreign land to kill people he does not know anything about. Or some poor reservist who had to go to the ROTC course as a means to finance his education and now years later has to answer the call.

I am not anti american. That is a cheap and frankly a ridicilous slant. The reason why I am so critical towards the american society and politics is that it could be a really great land and country. It really could. But for some reason it does not want to. For some reason the guys who run it are greedy and mericeless men, who steal and rob and kill and destroy. I have no idea why they can do it. I have no idea why americans do not kick them oput and take over, take the land back to the people. Instead they believe that the taleban are just behind the border sending suicide bomber kids to the nearest mall.

When I saw WTC collapse, I was horrfied. I have been there, on the sun deck up on the roof. Not once but many times. I lived in NYC once. When I saw those fire fighters to go in regardless their own fears and impossibility of their mission, I had tears in my eyes. Those guys were the best americans. And who they were? Latinos, blacks, greeks, italians, wasps etc. No super men, no super commandoes, special forces guys, but your every day americans going to the jaws of death because they wanted to help those trapped in the burning towers. That was something.

And then here comes those other guys. Lets attack into a country which had nothing to do with this but which has whole lotta oil. Lets let the family of the main terrorist get away by plane which the only one allowed into the airspace of USA, not counting Air Force One and military planes. Lets torture prisoners. Lets make this a huge war and even bigger business for the companies of our friends. Lets make some money with this.

WTF???? You understand what I am trying to say here?

By the way I have been in the army myself. I have done my duty. Not for the flag or government but because my grandfathers and uncles fought for my generation way back when, even if they did not want to. Nobody asked. They had to. So it was my way to pay back to that generation, but not support the government of my country or those politicians and big business. Just my land and my people. My family.

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on Sat Dec 29th 2012 at 22:55:56 B. R.

Sam, big guy, where did I ever acuse you of being directly anti American? Frankly, what I do say to you is that, you buy into some of the anti Ameican bias…and dont even know it…My gosh, did you see how much I agreed with you? About Iraq? About the corporacracy? About the military industrial complex? Did I not agree the USA is dirty and dumb too?Take note of that too, Kwamla, wise one…Ill answer you in a second…

Sam, why do I say you buy into it? I never understand the people that, lets say go back to the fifties and sixties and rip into USA policies of that time,with incredible detail and a magnifying glass that sweeps over every move ever made and every body that the USA racks up, and, tally the opisition bodies as USA bodies everytime, in its conflicts…I never hear them, or you, as you rattled off American bases all around the world, mention that exactly at that same time, close to 20 million people were being eliminated in China’s Red Cultur Revolution, as well as that, using communist “back to the feilds ” concepts, close to 20 million people died of starvation at the utter failure of those extremly flawed concepts…Moan Chumpski just recently said “China back then had better health care than the USA (??!) 20 million people die of starvation and he is saying they had better health care, do you see why I hate him? He did a 20 page thesis on the military industrial complex of the USA in Colombia, and devoted one paragraph to the Farc and called them freedom fighters…after the information I brought to your attention, do you see why I just dont trust him as far as I can throw a bus? He has an agenda, I want truth, not someone’s agenda…what was the Soviet Union doing at the time? to other countries next to them? How many places had they sent KGB spies all over the world? Those millions of people eliminated by flawed communist policies are mind boggling, can you , or , i, or you, Kwamla, really truly wrap your brain around those numbers? Could that maybe have been why there were so many dirty wars around the world in poor countries mostly, whose both sides eagerly invited the opossing ideologies in? Can we not make a point that in truth, all sides were dirty and responsible for these conflicts? That is my main point…

About the top rich elite people trying to consolidate power and riches ? People arnt unintelligent or naive about it, Im not naive about it, I know these people are trying to get rich while the rest of the world gets poor. So ask yourself this, dont the top 500 weathiest companies in ANY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD have tremendous influence and sway of how things are going to go in that country? Yeah the USA being one of the richest countries in the world, plays these games to the hilt, but, what about Japan? China? Germany.? Cuba? they say Castro is one of the richest men in the world, and the North Korean dictator , how rich do you think he is?

What is the differance with the USA and those dictators? Its actualy posible to have new players representing new money come into the fold, like we saw in the dot com age…lots failed with the bubble, but, so many new rich people came in the fold, Gates, Jobs…new money..very healthy…

the corporacracy? What people dont really want to know is, they could bring any corporation to their knees if they want to…look at the music industry…I love CD’s, there used to be a lot of huge CD stores in New York, there arnt anymore, why? People learned how to get it free, they did that and brought the record companies to their knees…all those great stores closed…if people branded together, they could get any corporation to fall lto its knees…its that simple…you got to get people on board

Sam, I knew you were in the service, but, look what some people said about people in the service for the USA, Im sticking up for the men and women who are serving agiant those horrible statements, and I sure agree that there are situations where evil men in the government missuesed that most valuable recource for their personal gain…yes, Americans need to wake up to that , for sure..and, Id think you would recognise that Obama, seeing his solders get blasted by bombs planted by the Taliban, and them running to Pakistan to hide, gives him his reason to protect their interests…I agree with that

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on Sat Dec 29th 2012 at 23:20:07 B. R.

Kwamla…do you realise how many 9/11 conspiricy things Ive seen? And, I absolutly hate watching the towers go down, it just pumps my hate again…I just watched the one you brought in….its got serious swiss cheese holes in it…

The most glaring holes are, he is actualy saying that these newly trained pilots , who didnt do very well in flight school, were able to hone in to those exact floors where he sais the info was they wanted to destroy !!!??? Can you imagine the kind of presician it would take to hit those floors ? Are you saying they secredtly outfitted those planes with smart bomb type technology to make such an acurate hit…by inexperianced pilots? or did they get an incredible specialist pilot to give his life for the cause and pilot those planes…or, what, they used drone techology and someone was at a screen in Houston Texas guiding them in? When huge electric connections when they short out, dont they make explosions ? If a building colapses that size, as the floors pancake down, wont the floors lower have puffs of air shooting out dust?

And here is another question, how many people do you think it took to pull this conspiricy off? 100? 200? more? Do you really think such a large amount of people , in the last 10 years, with the weight of 3000 people’s blood on their hands, that not even one would have cracked? With so many independent internet news outlits, dont you think some independent could actualy get next to an individual involved and get them to confess?

I dont think you remember how naive people were back then..I know a person who used to have an office in the Empire State building, she said they got about 200 or more bomb threats every day!! Do you know how many business tie ins someone could make if the Empire State building went down? If you deal with thousands of bomb threats, how do you know which one is for real? Yes, tremendous incompatence in the Bush administration

You dont have to make up a conspiricy to see how horrible the Bush administration was, how conniving…they did touch on the Wolfiwitz, Chenny, Cristol, Rumsfeld concervitave pact about invading Iraq they all signed in 1992 or so, I mean that is conspiritual enough along with the lies about weapons of mass destruction…they took total advantage of 9/11 to immediatly orchestrate their plan….these people know how to jump on conflict and turn it into profit, they are greedy oportunists…your docu has some truth, all the conspiricy ones do, and then they weave the truth around the swiss cheese holes

And, yes, I do question building 7, that is the real anomolie, but, its so strange, after we all know that the fundamentalists tried to bring the towers down before, none of the conspirists ever entertain the idea that if there was a seperate building going down , that maybe the fundamentalists got to that one too with some truck bombs or they planted the detonators?That is strange to me that that is never entertained…too many swiss cheese holes, wise one, like the Idaho picker,,,,you are smarter than that, Kwamla…

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on Sat Dec 29th 2012 at 23:34:07 sam

@BR:

I have mentioned the communist atrocities in the past and today I went on for a lenght about the atrocities of Stalin and USSR. So I have no idea where you got the impression that somehow we forget the communist crimes against the humanity.

I have no idea how much you know about the history of Finland but over here we have been very much aware of communist dictatorship as long as it lasted. It was right next door. Yes, we lived right next to the mighty USSR for all its duration. Actually Finland had the longest border with USSR among any european country. So, you do not have to tell me about that.

But see, USSR collapsed 20 years ago. Communist countries collapsed 20 years ago. Berlin wall came down 23 years ago. Like you said about the US backed latin american dictatorships: they all became democracies 😀 In a very similar fashion too!!

I very much doubt that Old Beard or dictator of North Korea are among the wealthiest men of the world, very much so. They might be rich, particulary in their own countries, but comparing them against american billionaires is like comparing shetland pony to a huge shirehorse.

As for the China, its history is litterally history of mass murders and genocides as far as there are records. Famines, rebellions, revolutions, up risings, almost genocides have happened in every century. In that sense Maos terror was just one in a long line of terrors.

As for the communism in China, I think the rudest and most greediest capitalist in Wall Street can only envy his chinese collegues. The state is protecting mercilessly and with an iron fist the companies, domestic and foreign, and their interests against the people. In last few years alone there has been dozens of pesant uprisings, thousands of strikes, all sorts of troubles between the poor and the rich, the companies and the workers they shamelessly exploit. And the chinese government has put down all the those for the companies.

The terror state created by Mao and his cohorts is now in place to protect the interests of the big international companies, chinese super rich and chinese elite from the demands of the people. They have killed, tortured and prisoned people who have demanded any rights at all. Thousands have died and perished. Why? Because fo communism? No. Because of the business and money.

It is, as it always has been, a case of Follow the Money.

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on Sun Dec 30th 2012 at 00:11:21 B. R.

Yeah, Sam,China is now authoritarion capatilism, Marx would turn over in his grave

the point Im making about wrapping our brains around the millions and millions dead is, even though we know the numbers, can we really grasp that? I mean seriously, can we grasp what 20 million killed in a cultural revolution is?

and if you really get how deeply horrific and violent as you describe, dont you understand why we stood up to them? My gosh am I so happy Brazil didnt go communist Che style…can you understand that?

So, do you see that I am agreeing with many of your points? why when I raise questions and actualy have brought in devastating information,like the Taliban using kids as suicide bombers (why cant any of you at least acknowledge this, or the greater numbers of kids they kill…huh, Abagond?), Chaves involvement in Farc, their crack and arms trade into Brazil and the gangs and millions die from it, all of a sudden, I get jumped on and belittled( excuse me but, this reaction only strengthens my convictions because I am just not convinced)?Dont any of these facts count for something? I saw your crack on me, Abagond on the other thread…you boggle my mind also, swiping at Obama when he is protecting his troops, and, indirectly, Afghan children the Taliban would kill IN MUCH GREATAR NUMBERS!! AND THEY DO IT TO OTHER PEOPLE THAT THE aMERICANS ARNT INVOLVED IN…do you really understand the fundamentalist religous fanatical mentality, Abagond?

You said we wage war on brown skin people, yet you always remind us about how we bombed Mira’ country, who are white…why are you sensationalising that we only go after brown skin people, Abagond?

Im looking for truths, not agendas..agree with the facts Ive brought in, Abagond, and we have a starting point to go ahead, if you are in denial about it, well, Ill just embrace my hypocracies and you embrace yours

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on Sun Dec 30th 2012 at 00:14:48 B. R.

“millions die from it” the drug gans in Brazil should be thousands upon thousands..a couple of hundred thousand in 13 years

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on Sun Dec 30th 2012 at 00:24:25 B. R.

by the way, let me clarify about the military dictatorships in south america, they were brutal crack downs..and the Usa certainly condoned and had cia down there, im not saying they werent there, they just didnt have as much control as everyone screams they do…argentina was expecialy brutal…dropping thousands into the sea from helicopers…horrible…but, im so happy brazil didnt go che style…seriously….anyone think cuba or north korrea would be places to live?

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on Mon Dec 31st 2012 at 04:25:12 B. R.

Bulanik’s comments about calling someone “stupid” for implying the Taliban hide behind civilians backfired. Then ,she actualy tries to sluff off the only too incriminating Al Jazeera article I brought in, saying they were using children as suicide bombers, by weakly refferring to conflicts in Africa ,where they use child solders ( which has nothing to do with tranforming children into suicide bombers) , just reeks with a denial that is bracing.

She refers to an exchange that I was called a “liar” by Sam ( you never did really ackowledge that , Sam, when I proved with out a doubt that I was right), and keeps acusing me that I am suposedly keep offending as the “white American oppressor (american used on another thread as an insult)”. When ever I keep bringing in facts and repelling her weak positions, she crumbles into either trying to acuse me of being a stalker, and mounted a whispering campain that led to out right acusing me of “belittling her as a black woman”, which she doesnt have the guts to actualy demonstrate it, only implicate it…I call all of that a moral hypocrite..

(Id like you to note, Abagond, Ive been making a big effort to not come in here exactly for this ridiculous notion and acuasation that I have been stalking, and its she, that brings up some kind of referance like “just cant resist the juicy turkey bone bulanik”, itsnot the turkey referance, its like there is some kind of attraction related to the stalking bs she is trying to perpetuate, I dont respect this kind of conniving manipulation at all)

Anti Americanism has been in my face for 26 years, I can smell the putrid stench of it from a long way a way, I can smell when someone is buying into the “everything the USA ever did was wrong” and the hypocracies….Bulanik is swimming in her resentments, they are so deep in her that she is about to choke from it, where, Ive stated to you Sam, I think you are buying into anti American bias, and not choking on resentments. You know all about the atrocities of the Soviet Union, but, what I am hoping for is, if you talk about American policies, you will put it in context of the very real struggle of oposing that totalitarion flawd ideology the same way as standing up to fundametalist religious fanatics of all faiths . At least look at the entire backdrop even with the horrible uglyness the conflits bring, knowing I fully agree, Iraq was Imperliast American aggresion at its worse…

Along with goinng through “hide under the desk exercises and actualy seeing Kruschev saying we will bury you”, I went through the Cuban missle crisis…live…nuclear confrontation on the very brink as pretty much close as it got. It always pumped my hate for Che to the brink when I found out that he was furious the Soviets wouldnt just nuc the States, what a meglomanic…that was what I was arguing against about Che, I regret apologising to Bulanik for letting her railroad it into like I was acusing her of being a big beleiver in Che…that never was the point…the fact she would defend the sob speaks volumes…I made great points on that discusion and as here, I brought in extremly relevant facts, and Im getting belittled for it, by some people, in the face of a couple of conspiricy theories, a really nasty post about servicemen, and cross thread digs

Anybody who has tried to railroad me as a stalker, beleive me, I was through with at that exact moment

Abagond, I just want to say about some of the things you have said, and when I refer to “fables”. For me, those kind of statements do work when addressing racism, slavery, discrimination against black Americans. Why? Because the brutality of slavery, Jim Crow, white flight , police burtality, lynchings, they were all white American aggresions. There was no black American attack. It deserves to be piled on , scrutinised, criticised and disgraced…I suggest to you that it doesnt aply to international politics and American policies. While there is plenty to criticise, I have myself, Im not against criticising American policy, as long as you can handle the facts I have forged over the time I have put into really researching it where I live. The biggest thing I have discovered in my international experiance is , it is extremly complex, not easily broken down into catch phrases and rheteric that starts to get borrowed from ideologies that hate the usa anyway and the people using them may not even know that, or they do and have an agenda.America was attacked by Japan, and Germany declared war the next day( foget the conspircy theories you hear about that), communism was flawed and has violent revolution written in its manifesto and was a real threat, and wanted to destroy us, and religious fanaticsm is a real threat to humanity and has tried to destroy us…and yes, we are a military industrial complex with evil men that if they get in power will destroy and do any means to get richer…

And all Im saying is, if you step out of your role as a great blogsman about black American issues with race , among other topics also, and take a stand like here, (which I respect your willingness to critcise Obamas policies, I dont like some also, but, I just so happen to not disagree with him here), you are joining people lke Noam Chompski, Oliver Stone and his take on Hugo Chaves, Sean Penn, etc, and I have severly discredited them on here and trust them the same as I trust Rush Limbauh or Dick Chenney. I am going to speak about the truths I know…Im out for a while , unless someone caps on me, happy new year

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on Mon Dec 31st 2012 at 10:13:18 sam

@BR:
Happy new year to you too.

Just this one comment and then I am off this subject.

You accuse me of being anti-american. Like I have told you, I love the country, rock n roll and hot dogs. Why then I am so criticial? Because it makes me really mad to see how this country with this much potential to be what it could really be, is taken down the toilet, not by the communists, but the same guys who use your favorite argument all the time. When you point out any defect on their ideology or ideas, or critizise their policies, they will yell: ANTI AMERICAN! That is just a way to end any discussion and critical tihnking. It is like NATIONAL SECURITY! Both are ways to silence the opposition, end the debate and stop development.

I understand that you have a trauma from communists, perhaps you were scared of them when you were younger, perhaps you bought the Red Scare propaganda, I have no idea. I was born in a small country right next to the USSR. I grew up knowing that few miles aways from me there were three million men at arms, tens of thousands of tanks, missles and planes ready to go at any notice.

When I was in the army I knew that if it came to that, we would fight to the last man, litterally, but that there were few thousand against each one of us. Our grandfathers had done the same and if it came to that, it would have been our turn. But I did not grow in fear. I did not become hysterical. I have no red scare in me. Russians or communists do not scare me. I wonder why.

You seriously need to get over that, man. Communism as you learned way back when, has been dead for decades. It crumbled 20+ years ago. No cuban marxist is going to attack Papa Joes in Florida Keys. No central american leftist guerilla is going land on New Orleans. Hugo Chavez is not planning an invasion of USA. He is actually suffering from cancer as we speak.

So take it easy. Enjoy life and debate. Different perspectives give us all matter to think about, feed our thinking, and result in development.

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on Mon Dec 31st 2012 at 12:59:33 abagond

@ B.R.

I do not deny that the Taliban is evil. But their evil does not excuse Obama’s evil. NOT ONE BIT.

I do not fault Obama for fighting the Taliban, I fault him for his indiscriminate killing of civilians. Like killing people at funerals, killing those who come to rescue the wounded and dying from the first strike of a drone, of bombing places where most people are going to be innocent civilians, like houses and bakeries. This is no longer “collateral damage”, this is an EVIL disregard for human life. Killing helpless people like that by joystick in Nevada or New Mexico is SICK, SICK, SICK.

But it is not AT ALL surprising coming from a country built on genocide and dehumanizing people who are not white.

Obama should know better but he is no longer the same man he was – or at least PRETENDED he was.

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on Mon Dec 31st 2012 at 17:11:04 Mbeti

Notice how some people write a lot and some don’t.
Is it not easier to grammar and spell-check with few words than with many?

” Killing helpless people like that by joystick in Nevada or New Mexico is SICK, SICK, SICK.”

Redundancy to make the point – but exactly what type sickness? – mental illness? – if so ,is there any possibility of cure?

Interesting how the start of this post – mental illness (lack of use of medication) was what someone accused me of – and also diaryofanegress (why because she’s tired of white/albinic people period. guess that makes you crazy in some peoples interpretation.)
Go figure.

How much you wanna bet “yawn” was your typical lynch mob initiating white/albinic therefore ugly female motivated by jealousy envy and hate?

hmm maybe that’s some of what motivates joystick killers.
Interesting.

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on Thu Jan 3rd 2013 at 23:01:32 Donabag

There are so many inaccuracies, prejudices, and out right lies in this rant that it is hard to figure out where to start that might get through to the author in any real way, but I will say that you clearly have your own racial, ethnic, national & social prejudices to get over and that maybe you should look inward before you attack other cultures, races, and nationalities.

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on Sun Jan 13th 2013 at 12:30:26 B. R.

You actualy brought in Moan Chumpski as a referance?

The guy who said back in the 60’s, China had better health care than America…when close to 30 million Chinese were being starved because of marxist back to the feilds beaurocratic policies…30MILLION!!!!!!!!!!! THAT IS SOME GREAT HEALTH CARE

and he is the guy who does a huge many paged thesis on the military industrial complex of the USA in Colombia and mentions one paragraph about Farc as FREEDOM FIGHTERS!!!!!!!! who got aid and arms from blow hard Hugo…and these Farc are hooked up with drug gangs in Brazil decimating the social fabric turning Brazil into the biggest user of crack on the planet….and the thug drug dealers carry around 700 prisoners tied chained together in the slime jungle

and he calls them freedom fighters? there are people screaming about the USA in Colombian bases and how they are going to invade south america but they cant even look at the Farck raping Brazil

Chumpski is a hypocritical biased fool with an agenda. I dont trust him as far as i can throw a bus, I lump him in with Rove, and Lindbaugh as sellers of lies and hafl truths

you got to do better than that, Legion

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on Mon Jan 21st 2013 at 22:20:54 On Lupe Fiasco and Voting | Agreeable Anarchism

[…] They knew full well when they were in the voting booth that they were voting approvingly for this list. To turn around and say they oppose such a policy is meaningless. In the only area Obama cares […]

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on Wed Jan 30th 2013 at 23:03:37 Mbeti

@bulanik
Excellent work – I visited and bookmarked both of those links.
Somebody has to care and I’m proud to say some us do.

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on Wed Jan 30th 2013 at 23:27:04 Mbeti

@Bulanik
I cut my teeth on Noam Chomsky,read him regularly in my twenties and thirties – a short cut is to view some of his talks on youtube –
and Abagond is a phenomenon in and of himself ,every now and then I browse the archive of his/this blog and all I can say is metaphorically his mind is a river wide and deep, very deep.
Perhaps this is why we are regularly here, although I do notice that while I’ve seen many of the regular commentors with thier own blogs here I’ve yet to see abagond at anyone else’s blog that I know of.

Anyway mentioning Noam Chomsky has motivated me to go download some more youtube talks by him.

Peace and love
Later

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on Thu Jan 31st 2013 at 01:05:30 Mbeti

@Bulanik
Mr Chomsky is an “unusual” American? What’s your opinion of him?

I think he is a extremely unusual human being period.

I’ve watched and heard and read him say things no other human I know of say ,I’ve heard and read things from him about african americans and native americans That I’ve yet to hear any other white person say.

He’s one of the most intelligent and honest human beings I know of.

However having said that after 911 I saw a video of him saying that if he or some other activist where killed by the state – it wouldn’t matter or was not that important – and I beg to differ ….such people as he are the few that make life worth living ,what keeps a reasonable person from blind hate in the face of massive injustice and adversity.

I visit a few blogs from time to time ,and I have my own but I’ve yet to find one(mine included) as well run and popular as abagond’s so I think it maybe a bit more than familiarity with this blog.

But try it out, ,just leave these wonderful conversations for a day, once month or week and search the great and vast web and if you can find a blog as great as abagond’s in a month of sunday’s please let me know.

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on Thu Jan 31st 2013 at 02:01:47 B. R.

Ive stated exactly where Chumpski purposfully distorted the truth

But , its notable that in the last couple of weeks, the Pakistan army bombed and attacked the Talaban twice, because the Talaban are ruthlessly bombing innocent Pakistani’s and using children as suicide bombers…but you know, the Pakistan army doesnt have a magnifying glass stuck up its rectum , criticising every move it makes…the truth is, you all dont care if the Pakistan army killed any children, that is hypocritical

People like Chumpski mix truth and then spin his agenda inside

I could care less if you dig him, Im happy i can see through his bs

Farc, freedom fighters? Getting aid and arms from Chavez and drug dealing to giant gangs in Brazil contributing to the decimation of the society down here, and carry kidnapped prisonoers throught the jungle tied in chains….Chumpski calls them freedom fighters? What a hilarious disgusting joke…. Yeah, you all go follow moan chumpski, he can kiss my behind

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on Thu Jan 31st 2013 at 02:32:22 fiamma blu

Interesting commentary, Mbeti!

All I’ve only ever known Noam Chompsky to be is a linguistics scholar, as I took a course in the discipline as an undergrad, and his name has alway stayed with me in that context.

He actually seems to be a true renaissance man if ever there was one.

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on Thu Jan 31st 2013 at 02:41:24 Mbeti

@B. R.
you of a thousand useless words now add slander of someone far above you in stature and achievement – thank you – I suspected you and now it is confirmed.

But though we have a informal policy of reverse slander by naming and calling one such you a troll – I recently realized the folly of such negligence.

I will see you for exactly what you are and act accordingly.

A member of my species with whom I profoundly disagree ,and I will engage you and others like you with intent of evolution and thus resolution or I’ll not interact with you at all.

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on Thu Jan 31st 2013 at 02:43:06 B. R.

30 million people die in China from starvation , under Mao and his ridiculas beaurocratic communist dogma drek about back to the feilds and faulty agricultural concepts, and chumpski sais they had better health care than the USA back then

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!??????????

He may be a great linguistics professor, but, as far as what is really happening in the world, he is an expert on what the USA has done wrong but a bs artist about the side he is hiding

I need both sides for the whole thruth, not hypocracy

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on Thu Jan 31st 2013 at 02:49:20 B. R.

I bring in actual truth and you call me a troll?

Hey , Mbeti, I brought in the Al Jazeera article showing the Taliban use children for suicide bombers…something no one else on this thread did…that is truth in your face…

Im telling you the truth about the Farc and Chavez and the damage it is doing to the country I live in now and chumpski calls the Farc freedom fighters…..and you call me a troll?

If you cant handle the truth, then Ill happily be a troll in your book, because Im interested in the whole truth about what is happening out here

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on Thu Jan 31st 2013 at 02:54:14 Adeen

@MBeti
I agree and I love this blog.

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on Thu Jan 31st 2013 at 03:21:06 Adeen

@Bulanik
Why thank you, this is a good blog but I was thinking of deleting my Sodahead account if you want what Sodahead is. Sodahead is not nearly as good as this blog at all! There are so many racists on that site too.

This is a much better blog with people who I can relate to on issues of race, music etc.

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on Thu Jan 31st 2013 at 04:25:23 fiamma blu

LOL, of course there’s no ‘p’ in Chomsky. B.R.’s “Chumpski” became emblazoned in my mind and from there I added the ‘p’ to the name. I’m not big on hero worship but now that I know that Chomsky is more that ‘just’ a linguist, I’ll do a bit of research on the man to see if I agree with his general PoV on matters.

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on Thu Jan 31st 2013 at 18:47:24 Tyrone

@Abagond

You’re late to the party. Democrats say they’re against torture, which means, the US can’t force terrorists to give up the info. Also, sending more troops overseas is a bad idea. The drone aircraft is a meeting in the middle…No Torture…No Dead Soldiers…No Gitmo. Most folk would assume that progressives would love unmanned killing machines…I Guess Not?

GoTeam

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on Thu Jan 31st 2013 at 20:16:57 fiamma blu

Legion,

Thank you! I’ll take a look at the website this evening.

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on Thu Jan 31st 2013 at 22:21:23 B. R.

Oh yeah, if you want to find out all the dirt about the USA , and, I never said there wasnt dirt about the USA, by all means, go check chumpski out….but you wont get the real picture of the world

I dont like him because I live down in Brazil and Ive seen the damage the Farc have done to the area…and how Chavez and Correa of Equador supported them and were incriminated in a Colombia army cross border attack ( yeah,Legion, lets debate on cross border attacks when the other side is there illegaly , supported by anothr country) on a huge Farc encampment, that Correa let them do in Equador, that gave up huge incriminating info on these tie ins with Chavez , Correa and Farc . Including that Farc gave money to Correas campain to win president in Equador. But that is far from the only evidance linking Chavez with the Farc. And the anti Americanists are screaming about the Colombians letting Americans use some bases and think the USA is going to invade South America…Ive heard all the anti American crap, more than chumpski, for the 26 years Ive lived here….but not from all the people, just the political agendists..just like chumpski, Brazil is an amazing country and an amazing education for me about these dynamics…just amazing

Chumpski is a snake oil sailsman, telling all the bad things the USA did and not one peep of this type of information…which is serious truth, and I have to see the pictures of the dead children killed in the cocaine gang wars because of the tremendous infiltraion of the product into the market…Farc is not the only player in the game, just to clarify that, but they are deep in

Shame on chumpski for selling half truths , I expect brillian men like him to tell the whole truth

If you build your foundation of what is happening in the world on half truths, it is weak and may crumble

Some people may love how he can say all the bad things about the USA, but, I see his real bs loud and clear , but by all means, if you need some dirt about the USA, he is the man

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on Sat Feb 9th 2013 at 22:00:50 abagond

Utterly awesome:

CODEPINK Repeatedly Disrupts Brennan Hearing Calling Out Names of Civilians Killed in Drone Strikes

http://abagond.tumblr.com/post/42696763666/descentintotyranny-codepink-repeatedly-disrupts

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on Wed Feb 13th 2013 at 05:18:28 Britbikin

Obama is a Terrorist … END OF STOREY!!

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on Sun Mar 3rd 2013 at 20:37:43 King

@ Bulanik

Just because troops are not deployed and there is no body count of American soldiers, does this mean this war can waged indefinitely, continuously and without reprisal because the targets of the drones can identify and kill no enemy?”

My observation is that the Drone War is the war of the future for the U.S. and Western powers [Remote Combat]. As you may know, the U.S. Military is already developing several Tank Drone projects.

http://www.military-today.com/apc/black_knight.htm

And the “think tanks” are also contemplating the same thing for naval warfare.

http://www.rand.org/pubs/reports/R1790.html

I don’t want too post too many links or I’ll get stuck in moderation. But DARPA is also quietly working on fully autonomous drone units, land, air, and sea.

A lethal robotic army seems to be the end game. Ten years ago, I would have laughed at myself and called this all preposterous science fiction. But I can’t ignore what’s clearly happening. It’s not a even a secret anymore.

Heaven help us.

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on Sun Mar 3rd 2013 at 21:18:44 King

You know too much already, Bulanik! 🙂

You remind me of the Orphic creation myth in which Zeus swallowed the world and gained all knowledge of it. Your appetite is perilous!!!

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on Sun Mar 3rd 2013 at 21:53:09 King

The Killer Robots

First Link
http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2013/01/16/taranis_neuron_militaries_moving_closer_to_truly_autonmoous_drones.html

Second Link
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/01/get-ready-the-autonomous-drones-are-coming/267246/

Third Link
http://articles.latimes.com/2012/jan/26/business/la-fi-auto-drone-20120126

Fourth Link
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/08/future-warfare/2/

Fifth Link
http://www.ndu.edu/press/fully-autonomous-targeting.html

I’ve read, (but cannot immediately find where) that the the Exoframe project’s have a longer term goal of evolving into 3 phases:

1) Human encasement
2) Remote human operation
3) Fully Autonomous (artificial Intelligence)

Phase #3 is basically a Humanoid Terminator, but that’s supposed to be a very long-term project, and only a possibility.

Sixth Link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powered_exoskeleton

Geez, I feel like a paranoid, posting these.. 😦

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on Mon Mar 4th 2013 at 01:38:49 King

Bulanik, there’s a list ^ above, and I’m adding another link here

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21576376

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on Wed Mar 6th 2013 at 04:31:03 King

@ Bulanik

Iraq and Afganistan are lessons:

In the Vietnam War the United States Armed Forces lost 58,282 soldiers (Killed In Action).

In the Iraq War, as of May 29, 2012, the U.S. Department of Defense website, there were 4,409 total deaths (including both KIA and non-hostile)

So the deaths in Iraq were 7.5% of the soldiers lost in Vietnam. Yet there were still protests in the U.S. regarding the loss of American lives. The goal of the next war will be to lose only machines and no American lives. The tolerance for war in the U.S. would be greatly extended because there would be no American casualties, you see. It’s also an answer to the asymmetrical warfare threat. You can’t kill a machine. It takes the “terror” out of terrorism.

It’s a war of wealth. Few nations could afford to build a clone/robot army and any nation who created the only one would be militarily invincible. It’s a way to control the world. First externally…

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/robots/4252643

And then… who knows.

http://washingtonexaminer.com/eric-holder-drone-strikes-against-americans-on-u.s.-soil-are-legal/article/2523319

http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2013/03/homeland-security-has-purchased-2700.html

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on Wed Mar 6th 2013 at 06:11:31 King

^ Also, if seeing is believing, these links should give you an idea of what is coming (or else here) in the DARPA development of the U.S. Robot Army/

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on Wed Mar 6th 2013 at 14:18:59 King

Ah.. just one more link, since this one touches on the Continent/
Ok, I’m done!

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/08/somalia-drones/

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on Tue Mar 12th 2013 at 14:23:54 King

Yes you’re right, Bulanik. Although it sounds crazy. But, it’s undeniable that the U.S. military is busily developing robots, both humaniform and animal. That much isn’t even Top Secret anymore, it can be found on YouTube. But nobody in the press seems to be too alarmed.

They developed the 4-legged beast above in the YouTube video (Robotic Mule) and have calling it a “Legged Squad Support System.” But clearly it can be weaponized and transformed into an attack platform that can follow humans into forests and jungles. And why would the U.S. military be interested in developing a robotic cheetah that can outrun humans?

This is the new category of “drones,” but they won’t only be killing from the sky anymore. Who will be able to resist this kind of power? And the rule of thumb is that clearly, anything that we can see on YouTube is old technology. What of the Top Secret programs? The frightening part is that they are certainly much further along than these videos would indicate.

The U.S. military is fundamentally changing warfare. Resistance to U.S. policy will become more difficult for other nations. The noose is tightening. Soon they will have the power they have been seeking.

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on Tue Mar 12th 2013 at 17:49:58 King

We should not stand by as though watching a story unfold, this is real, this is us.

All the other distractions are to make sure that we don’t see this as real. The false political dichotomies, the circular intellectualism, and the absorbing entertainment. But the power behind these things goes beyond any one government. The U.S. military is just the most logical tool to use.

They are gathering the rods. The Fascio will soon be complete.

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on Wed Mar 13th 2013 at 02:03:39 Mbeti

@Legion
And what would you suggest we do?

@King
One of my facebook friends posted some of the same stuff
however I subscribe to this email newsletter that follows technological developments like this regularly and there is a flip side
http://singularityhub.com

like how robotics is give sight to the blind for the first time and how the prostheics we all now take virtually for granted – allow previously permanently handicapped individuals out perform normal people.

As to the u.s. /corporate global mic (military industrial complex)
I have a vision that though many more will die – violence and money are becoming and will inevitably become obsolete.

Then what will we that survive complain about.

The reason I think that this foolishness still goes on is because we cannot imagine a world without brutal conflict, tragedy and suffering.

Ask the question(And I have many times) will we ever solve poverty illness ,crime and most people will immediately and confidently say no and never;
to me in the face of a infinite future with the virtually unlimited resources at our disposal i find such pessimism primitive and trivial – the thinking of many who probably don’t deserve and are ill suited to a future of unlimited peace and abundance.

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on Wed Mar 13th 2013 at 02:36:05 King

@ Mbeti

I have resisted subscribing to any newsletter or conspiracy watchdogs because I do not wish my observations to be the result of someone else’s filter. What I have seen is just an intricate and growing pattern. The history of it goes back quite a long way.

But as for robotics, there is nothing inherently wrong with it. It can certainly be used for great good. But there is a current military use being developed that is very dangerous, because of the power it will bring to a relative few. There is no denying that this going on. There is no denying the effect it will have on world politics. The power to kill and not be killed is the zenith of warfare.

As to your question …will we ever solve poverty illness, crime… Why would the powerful dispose of their most effective tools? And those without power cannot change them. The promise of human utopia is too often the cheese to the mousetrap, but look to the hammer.

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on Wed Mar 13th 2013 at 03:14:31 Mbeti

@king I was not suggesting you subscribe and it is a tech blog content updater actually.

“As to your question …will we ever solve poverty illness, crime… Why would the powerful dispose of their most effective tools? ”
so the powerful achieve their power via poverty illness – thus are criminals
whereas we are and will remain powerless.

“The promise of human utopia is too often the cheese to the mousetrap, but look to the hammer.”

Sounds like irresistible pessimism to me – but what does it matter – I proably won’t make it to the bright and glorious future I envision – and as any experienced human knows – predicting the future (negative or positive) is close to impossible (the father along ,this less accurate).

However I’m quite certain its currently not as bad as many of you claim ,even through it may be worse than I hope.

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on Wed Mar 13th 2013 at 10:57:55 Kwamla

“…Thank you, by the way, for not saying a single word about “melanin theory”, I suspect you may find it somewhat attractive….

The fact that the mention of Melanin seems troubling to some people says a hell of a lot. It speaks volumes and sends shivers down the spines of people such as Legion! Can’t think why though?

The Fact is Melanin appears in every cell in our body. It even appears in cells which scientists cannot fully account for it being there!. Scientists even to this day can not fully synthesis the chemical structure of Melanin. Melatonin is the closet they have come. But this is by no means the same thing. They have taken to extracting the Real Thing form the dead bodies and corpses of Black people!…Theory or Fact? Do the research for yourself and find out….

Melanin’s true purpose and properties still baffles them. This is why it is so often relegated or down played. This is a common “scientific” practise in modern Western Science when you are unable to account for something down play or relegate its significance. Until of course that significance becomes so pronounced it becomes to difficult to ignore! Now here is an example that springs to mind from these discussions right here…“Consciousness”

The role, place and significance “consciousness” plays which traditional science still insists and tells us is located and accounted for only for in the Human Brian!

Incidentally, this is the model or “role model” for the development of ALL Robots. Its simply an attempt by Western Science to “create” and express its own ideas about what it believes “consciousness” really is. Which is something it conceptualises as solely “material” or “physical”.

But of course those of us more attuned with our “inner being” or “Melanin” know that it is much more than this…!

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on Thu Mar 14th 2013 at 14:23:55 Mbeti

@Legion
I was thinking postive thoughts about you today ,may it helped(just kidding;-)

First off in reference to “melanin theory” thanks to another commenter “Mike2”
I now have this document http://www.academia.edu/199944/Melanin_Afrocentricity_and_Pseudoscience
Which addresses some of the questions and concerns I’ve always had with The IsIs Papers By Dr.Frances Cress Welsing ,
its seems only now has the technology evolved to the point where access to “obscure” but valid university professors “papers” become available to the general public at reasonable cost(free just ,time effort and interest).

So in the coming months I will be doing extensive analysis and review of both works – and of course coming to my own conclusions even as I strongly think there is a universal truth applicable to all.

“It’s my sense that the democratic surge that took place in the 60′s and 70′s was beaten back (think, for example, COINTELPRO). Then the elites, through the media, put forward a barrage of propaganda to depict those times as a collage of drugged out hippies and “anti-american” revolutionaries (think Malcolm X*). There is also propaganda to depict MLK as a gentle little lamb. That piece of propaganda is for controlling and pacifying the current population, who don’t really know what King stood for. I count myself as one of those who does not have a clear idea of what King stood for. King turned to some economic positions at the end of his career that I only have the most tangential awareness of. But I know he aroused bitter enmity among the elites with these economic positions.

The democratic movement that was smashed needs to reconstitute itself for the current era. ”

I pretty much agree with your assessment and summary however whatever new “movement” that arises needs to learn from the mistakes of the past and become more sophisticated especially in dealing with the inevitable fact that it will be apposed by the government at both its highest and lowest levels – from NSA-CIA (Intelligence community) and the Pentagon to every state and local police department.

I witness first hand The Occupy movement here in los angeles and as others have noted it was a movement led by privileged young whites with no aim ,planning or any other agenda but direct and futile confrontation with the military component of the government.

If where were of suspicious or paranoid mindset one would think they planned it as such.

As to the The Crisis of Democracy document I have already downloaded and will read it as I have the time.

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on Thu Mar 14th 2013 at 14:45:46 Mbeti

On Robots
http://singularityhub.com/2013/03/13/window-cleaning-robots-making-their-way-to-skyscraper-happy-united-arab-emirates

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on Sat Mar 23rd 2013 at 16:27:32 King

Another robo-technology, being marketed for it’s surveillance function, but which is also though to be part of a “walking bomb” program. These would essentially be robot bombs that crawl their way into enemy encampments, cities, villages, and fortifications, and the are set to detonate once they reach their pre-programed coordinates, or wait to be denoted for maximum killing effect.

As you can see, such a robot could also climb up an exterior building wall to a desired position and then explode into a targeted office though the building wall, even if the target was 20 stories up. No human would even have to be involved beyond programming in the targeting for the device. From there GPS mapping takes over.

But of course the Unites States does not sanction assassination, so we don’t have to worry much about that scenario.

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEP6WwwpE9Y)

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on Thu Mar 28th 2013 at 13:15:00 abagond

@ Bulanik

The source listed in the post has the most complete information that I know of.

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on Thu Mar 28th 2013 at 13:18:36 King

@ Bulanik

I don’t think there are any completely accurate worldwide statistics available outside of the Pentagon. But there are some places where they keep a tally based on Pakistan and Afghanistan. For example:

http://drones.pitchinteractive.com

http://counterterrorism.newamerica.net/drones

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on Thu Mar 28th 2013 at 14:31:45 King

@ Bulanik

Yes, that is my favorite source for drone strike statistics because of the interactive graphic presentation. Stunning isn’t it?

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on Thu Mar 28th 2013 at 14:35:39 King

^ Oh, I meant to point out (but forgot to) that if you mouse over the descending stings you will get individual information to pop up for each..

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on Thu Mar 28th 2013 at 14:44:13 abagond

That graphic makes it clear there was little change in drone policy between Bush and Obama, but a huge one after Musharraf resigned.

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on Thu Mar 28th 2013 at 14:53:54 abagond

That graphic also helps to make the case that the US is a banana republic, that the military is in control behind a facade of civilian leadership.

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on Thu Mar 28th 2013 at 15:43:53 King

That graphic also helps to make the case that the US is a banana republic, that the military is in control behind a facade of civilian leadership.”

Or that both the military and civilian leadership are following the same agenda, and answering ultimately to the same people.

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on Thu Mar 28th 2013 at 16:17:22 Kwamla

It gets worse when you dig deeper and research who the military and the government appear to be taking their orders from…

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on Thu Mar 28th 2013 at 16:34:34 King

^ And for how long.

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on Thu Mar 28th 2013 at 19:25:16 B. R.

31 March 2012 (terrorism)–Two children, a 15-year old boy and 12-year-old girl, were found dead in the Esfandi area of Ghazni province, Afghanistan, from severe acid burns; locals believed they were killed for being friends. [98]

17 April 2012 (terrorism)–Water poisoning attack on girls’ school in Rustaq district, Takhar province, Afghanistan; 150 students and 21 teachers injured. [99]

22 May 2012 (terrorism)–Water poisoning attack on a girls’ school, Bibi Jajera High School, in Taloqan, Takhar province, Afghanistan; 80 students, 3 teachers, and 1 staff member were hospitalized. [100]

26 May 2012 (terrorism)–Poisoning attack on a girls’ school, Bibi Jajera High School in Taloqan, Takhar province, Afghanistan; at least 40 students were injured. This was the second poisoning attack on this school in four days. [101]

28 May 2012 (terrorism)–Poisoning attack on a girls’ school in Takhar province, Afghanistan; 121 students and 3 teachers were injured. [102]

2 June 2012 (terrorism)–Poisoning attack on a girls’ school in Taloqan, Takhar province, Afghanistan; 20 students ages 7 to 18 were hospitalized. [103]

3 June 2012 (terrorism)–Poisoning attack on a girls’ high school in Farkhar district, Takhar province, Afghanistan; at least 65 students were injured. [104]

5 June 2012 (terrorism)–Poisoning attack on a girls’ school in Rustaq district, Takhar province, Afghanistan; 60 students were injured. [105]

June 2012 (terrorism)–Poisoning attack on a girls’ school in Bamyan province, Afghanistan; multiple students were injured. [106]

19 June 2012 (terrorism)–Poisoning attack on a girls’ school in Bamyan province, Afghanistan; 47 students were injured. [107]

22 June 2012 (terrorism)–Poisoning attack on a girls’ school in Sar-e-Pul province, Afghanistan; 118 students were injured. [108]

23 June 2012 (terrorism)–Poisoning attack on a girls’ school in Sar-e-Pul, Sar-e-Pul province, Afghanistan; 94 students were injured. [109]

25 June 2012 (terrorism)–Poisoning attack on a girls’ school in Sar-e-Pul province, Afghanistan; 90 students were injured. [110]

30 June 2012 (terrorism)–Poisoning attack on a girls’ school in Sar-e-Pul, Sar-e-Pul province, Afghanistan; 53 students were injured. [111]

2 July 2012 (terrorism)–Poisoning attack on a girls’ school in Sheberghan province, Afghanistan; about 255 students were injured. [112]

July 2012 (terrorism)–Poisoning attack on a girls’ school in Jawzjan province, Afghanistan; 100 students were injured. [113]

7 July 2012 (terrorism)–Poisoning attack on a girls’ school in Jawzjan province, Afghanistan; 60 students were injured. [114]

9 October 2012 (terrorism)–A gunman attacked a school bus near Mingora, Pakistan, shooting 14-year-old Malala Yousafzai, an outspoken critic of the Taliban; Yousafzai was seriously injured by gunshots to the head and two other students were injured. Yousafzai was flown to the United Kingdom for further treatment following surgeries in Pakistan. [115]

15 November 2012 (terrorism)–A rocket fired from Gaza struck an apartment building in Kiryat Malachi, Israel; 3 adults (including one pregnant woman) were killed and 4 children were injured (two infants and one 4-year-old). This was one of hundreds of rockets fired into Israel 9-16 November. [116]

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on Thu Mar 28th 2013 at 19:27:35 B. R.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/ChristianAttacks.htm

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on Thu Mar 28th 2013 at 19:29:28 B. R.

http://new-pakistan.com/2012/12/20/no-tears-for-children-killed/

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on Thu Mar 28th 2013 at 19:31:44 B. R.

http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2010/April/Kiddy-Jihad-Child-Bombers-Terrors-Newest-Weapon/

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on Thu Mar 28th 2013 at 19:33:54 B. R.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Islamic_terrorist_attacks

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on Thu Mar 28th 2013 at 21:02:53 Linda

good of you to bring the balance, BR

but the question of the day is:

(1) Is the US currently in Afghanistan to stop the Taliban from gaining power and allowing terrorists to plan another attack on the US or (2) is the US military there to prevent the Taliban from attacking their own people?

if they are there for question #2, then how will the drones help the US prevent more attacks on the women and female children who are trying to get an education.

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on Thu Mar 28th 2013 at 21:21:41 Linda

This post is about how the US drones have killed innocent civilians in its quest to kill “terrorists” on the list.

BR brought in information on how the one time host nation of these terrorists are killing their own innocent people …

not a total opposite of the spectrum but I have to assume in BR’s mind, this is close enough….I don’t wish to speak for BR but I believe in a roundabout way, he is defending the US policy of using drones.

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on Thu Mar 28th 2013 at 21:46:54 abagond

@ B.R.

What was your reason for bringing in that information?

1. Was it to show how useless drones are in stopping terrorism?

2. Was it to show that the Americans are no better than terrorists?

3. Was it to excuse the slaughter of innocents by Americans?

Or what?

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on Thu Mar 28th 2013 at 22:28:34 B. R.

Yes, Linda, I wanted to show balance

Abagond, it is part that , yes, we are in our way just as dirty as the terrorists..but also, I just dont agree with isolating the under 200 children , tragicly caught up in this mess, as all children are everywhere on the planet that men strap on guns and shoot at each other, and not seeing it in the whole context…including the huge amount of attacks around the world in the links I brought in, that means these extremists, for their religious reasons, and I hate religious extremists of all faiths EQUALY!!, have forced the issue of confrontation, and , they arnt any part of international rules of engagement…they are operating on another leval that demands another leval to deal with it than any standard of engagement that went down before

So, Bulanik, who are the Taliban? Pakistani? or Afghan? Because they jump back and forth over both borders and bomb the bejesus out of Pakistan and Afghanistan…and fighters join them from all over..so what is that? They bring their brand of bombing from all over

Why cant people see that? Weak is not acknowledging the whole picture , and only focusing on “America”

speak to all the children caught up in this conflict, or you dont hold the moral high ground in any way

And exactly because these arguments are so biased and one sided, which means this hiding behind the children, with out seeing the absolute dirt everywhere these conflicts go down, I am in favor of Obama’s drone program, and I will ignore any false screaming of “bloody murder” from skewed false moralist arguments with an agenda

People said on 9/11 that the “chickens came home to roost”, well, the same thing can happen in the other direction , these sob’s have been terrorising people exactly in the attacks I brought in, in all those places, and, they are being terrorised now …and people always say, “oh , you are creating more terrorists”, well, there are far more civilians being killed by the extremists , their relatives are going to remember that , and it will work exactly the same way

I dont care if the USA leaves Afghanistan, I support anyone who will stand up to these sob’s …and, once an American joins al Quaeda, I support going after them also

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on Thu Mar 28th 2013 at 22:38:36 B. R.

Even when America isnt directly involved, like with Mali (yes, I know they are in the background), people start screaming the French are colonial , or the African troops are killing civilians, and dont say anything about al Quaeda chopping off peoples limbs and doing their opresion…no, I wont lockstep marching into some kind of warped biased critical cynial look at the situation, I want those sob’s smashed

and, I want the authorities to go after any religious extremists, they should be cracking down on religious nuts in the USA, abortion doctor killers…blow them away…the olympic bomber, just off him, David Kerich, doesnt deserve to live, and if the authorities catch one of these nuts , like the ones that blew the Sik (sp?) temple up, shoot them in the act with no mercy…

and here is a question, what if you came on one of these mass shooters, and, you have one chance to blow him away, before he kills 30 kids, but you might have to kill 3 kids in the act…do you take the shot?

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on Thu Mar 28th 2013 at 22:52:42 B. R.

No, your arguments are weak…you have no qualifications to think you are any more right about this than I am

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on Thu Mar 28th 2013 at 22:57:34 B. R.

for someone who is suposed to be stronger, why do make like the Talaban arnt jumping from one country to another and had Al Quaeda there from all over?

weak

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on Thu Mar 28th 2013 at 23:20:08 B. R.

another bogus statement from you, just look at what Ive said on the thread, and ,my arguments are there
im not mirroring your statement, Im mocking it, at the ridiculous of it
you are the one who cant tell the differance of Al Quaeda coming formall over and the Talaban jumping from one country to the other,

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on Thu Mar 28th 2013 at 23:32:22 Linda

BR, I do understand where you are coming from … you support that a country has the right to defend itself by “any means necessary”…

I also believe that sovereign nations have a right to defend themselves — such as Mali calling in the French to help them fight off the foreign terrorists that took over Timbuktu and northern Mail — anyone protesting that has not been watching from the beginning and need to take a seat….nothing about that situation is “cut and dry” …

but it was the USA’s interference in Libya, in the first place, that caused Mali’s problems — they (US) should have kept their big nose out of Libya and let the stronger side decide who rules.

The US’s foreign policy just has Wayyy too many holes in its desire to watch out for America’s interests abroad.

and the it seems lately, they can’t even tell who is a “friend from foe” — the US had no clue who the rebels were in Libya but gave them guns and training — and in return, their ambassador got killed and now the region has been opened up for jihadist to do their thing.

What’s the point of the US having all this intelligence and killer technology if they can’t even get the game right.

I just think it’s a shame how the emotional momentum and support that the general public offered the US government after 9/11 was abused…h’ll, I’m not American and I was pissed about 9/11 because not just Americans died that day and an evil act like that deserves revenge.

but the question is, at what point does the government stop using 9/11 as an excuse to do whatever the h’ll they want in and out of the US…look what happened when they used their new legislative “powers” to fund the Bush families personal vendetta against Saddam (Iraq)

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on Thu Mar 28th 2013 at 23:44:18 B. R.

“slaughter of innocents” that sure is what is happening out here in this world….with plenty of blame to go all around

you can say “weak ” all you want, and it does not mean squat in relation to the truth

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on Fri Mar 29th 2013 at 00:03:43 sam

@BR:

Just try to remember that Al Qaida was started by US money in 1980’s Afganistan where Osama was fighting your previous enemies the commies.

The problem in Mali and wider area in Sahara is that not a single country recognizes the rights of the tuaregs. Al Qaida tried to exploit that.

And France? You really believe they went in to defend the innocent civilians? Grow up, man. There uranium in that area. France just acted faster than any other outsider because it is their old stomping grounds and, lo behold, they still have that same force whihc was there a hundred years ago: The Foreign Legion!

Friend of mine was at Sarajevo when the french “peace keepers”/La Legion was there keeping the peace. They let the serbs fire at will into the city if they did not fire at them. What the french did was they organised bordellos for their soldiers, including teenage girls to serve them, and the black market.

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on Fri Mar 29th 2013 at 00:17:41 B. R.

No , you buy into anit American bias that is the Soviet Union propaganda page with fidels snot on it

Sam, the training was basicly teaching them how to use stingers,the real origins go back to Sayim Qubt, and Zawahari and Bin Laden coming to some desicians hating the Americans helping Isreal in the Arab Israili wars.Bin Laden also hated that the Saudis let the USA in on his “holy land”, and he took his band to Afganistan

gees, its like you never saw the pictures of Stalin with Roosevelt and Churchhill?

As usual you break it down into your cookie cutter version of how it goes down

Bulanik , Im not here to pass your dumb tests about whether Im answering the questions to your specifications, I gave my answer to Abagond..you biased, one dimensinal take is as frustrating to me as my answers to you…so what

I love bringing you out of the woodwork, Sam, pulling you off your border patrol against the commies…

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on Fri Mar 29th 2013 at 00:34:35 King

@ Bulanik

From a technological standpoint, how long until drones can be hacked, and turned against their operators?

Well, I guess on some level, drones have already been hacked:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/29/drone-hacked-by-universit_n_1638100.html

And the Iranians also hacked the video from one etc. But these really have relatively low tech security. As I’m sure you know, the U.S. UAV program was a bit rushed because they were needed for the Iraqi War for surveillance. So e-security protocols were never as tight as they should have been. The belief that the enemy was technologically backward lulled the U.S. Military into sloppiness and security complacency.

But on a higher level, security does exist that would be very difficult to ever hack. For instance, the U.S. Intercontinental Ballistic Missile System has never been successfully hacked into. But on those systems, security was deemed to be a top priority and they knew that the Russians could be very clever.

The combat drones that are currently being developed will likely be equipped with a default self-destruct protocol (set to self-destruct unless reset after mission completion) and will have several layers of signal isolation. The holy grail—the autonomous robot killers—will likely have no continuous outside controls and therefore no way in. (Which is really a terrifying thought!)

Of course, you can never use the word “impossible” but a better word to use would be “expensive.” The advanced security will make hacking very very expensive to accomplish (unlike today) so that poorer countries will simply not have the resources available to stop them. At least theoretically.

But then plans go wrong, people make mistakes etc. The Chinese and the Europeans will certainly develop drones after the fashion of those developed by the U.S. and the world will become a much more frightening place. But especially for those without power. But if you design a killing machine, and then make it as secure as you can from outside tampering, what happens if something goes terribly wrong and it begins killing Americans? How hard will it be to stop it?

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on Fri Mar 29th 2013 at 01:02:35 Linda

sam
@BR:
The problem in Mali and wider area in Sahara is that not a single country recognizes the rights of the tuaregs. Al Qaida tried to exploit that.

And France? You really believe they went in to defend the innocent civilians? Grow up, man. There uranium in that area. France just acted faster than any other outsider because it is their old stomping grounds”

Linda says,

Sam, not to sound callous but “who CARES why France is in Mali” … the Mali army got their as’s beat by the Tauregs/ Jihadist in the beginning and could not win without help –which they were not getting from the African Union.

Believe it or not, I am all for the Tauregs having their own homeland but unfortunately when the Jihadist turned on the Tauregs, all that went out the window… the Tauregs invited the devil to the party and couldn’t get him to leave.

and as far as international aide being fast, please stop making jokes — not one country gave a d’mn about the situation and no one had any desire to help Mali– the Mali government had to BEG in order to get assistance.

I’ve been watching from the very beginning and in the US last year, the situation in Mali BARELY got covered in the US…this whole situation has been nothing but a one sentence side-note to the West.

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on Fri Mar 29th 2013 at 01:22:16 B. R.

Bulanik, this is only your opinion of where Im coming from, and the people who think like you will think the same thing

Ive brought in things into this discusion that absolutly hold up to rigouous inspection, like the fact the Talaban try to turn children into suicide bombers…how can you ommit that from this discusion? You would never bring it in, and you probably knew about it , or didnt, whatever, you just didnt bring it in

I am not going to isolate America and only cynicaly criticise its actions in this dirty as hades world…I wont take it out of the full context, unlike other points of view here …things are far more complex than these simplistic screaming of bloody murder to innocents…and, you know, that was always my main point, its more complex than just Obama’s drones killing close to 200 children

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on Fri Mar 29th 2013 at 02:45:36 King

@ Bulanik

And, if it’s only money that stops other nations (the poorest of the Islamic countries) from using drones, then this is obstacle will only take time to overcome.”

That depends on whether you see economics as a neutral force, or as just another kind of weapon.

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/178545/economic-warfare

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_warfare

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on Fri Mar 29th 2013 at 06:33:25 King

You know, the likely way is that economic warfare will continue to be used to enfeeble and break the poor (mostly Islamic?) nations, and money can and will be acquired (by whatever method) to buy the technology we are discussing.

The gulf Islamic nations are going to run headlong into the “alternative energy” campaign that has been prepared for them. Whether you believe the Middle East is “running out of oil” or not, the convenient fact is that the U.S. can now utilize it’s newly available natural gas resources. Compressed Natural Gas (CNG) is already cheaper than the current market price for oil, but combined with other energy alternatives, plus increased technological efficiency, the long-term future for oil as the big profit generator that it had been will sharply decline. Nations who use oil will be stigmatized as using a resource that is finite, endangered, and dirty. The cleaner, better, newer energy sources will bring the Green to… well.. to us! 🙂

What do you think will happen to the Middle East once the oil boom is forever gone? Much more dangerous than drone strikes are policy strikes. This is where the war is already really being won.

Aren’t drones (and their programmes) cheaper than nuclear warheads?

Yes and no. Nuclear warheads and their payload delivery systems are expensive, but they are also efficient. One inter-continental ballistic missile can carry from 8 – 14 individual warheads. Each of those nuclear warheads can destroy an entire city with a single detonation. The cost for decimating 14 cities when you add the fuel, fissile materials, and precision hardware, is actually relatively inexpensive, once you’ve recouped the research and development investment.

The problem with nukes is that they are impractical weapons. Nobody really wants to destroy the world. People would much rather control the world. And that’s what the ‘Robot Army’ concept allows for. But it takes a lot more drones to control the world than it takes nuclear weapons to destroy the world—thus the expense. Also the cost of keeping up with the state-of-the-art technology is VERY expensive.

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on Fri Mar 29th 2013 at 12:29:40 Mbeti

Im becoming increasing indifferent to all,B.R makes some valid points,

and when you add these nations and cultures extreme hostility and

indifference to their female members ,

while it does not excuse or justify white-european/american techno-violence

I will not feel the need to cry or feel or show concern when either side kills or is killed for whatever reason.

And as to innocent children ,I regularly experience the strange phenomena of being stared directly into my eyes by the youngest of children especially ,

the children of racist whites (also avoided and ignored by the black ones)

Its seems as if even at the youngest of age the decision has already been made – and its f—k you…

should I then care?,should anyone?

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on Fri Mar 29th 2013 at 17:12:21 King

@ Bulanik

I neglected to document my assertions above.
Natural Gas Boom Begins to Shifts Energy Economy to the U.S.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323293704578330700203397128.html

http://www.npr.org/2013/03/28/175483517/cheap-natural-gas-pumping-new-life-into-u-s-factories

http://energy.gov/natural-gas

http://dailycaller.com/2013/03/26/natural-gas-deal-brings-brits-benefits-of-u-s-shale-boom/

What Will Happen to the Middle East as a Result

http://www.sigmascan.org/Live/Issue/ViewIssue/491/4/after-the-oil-the-future-of-the-middle-east/

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2012/09/01/goodbye_middle_east_america_doesnt_need_the_grief_115297.html

http://www.startribune.com/opinion/commentaries/181459081.html?refer=y

Economic Warfare in Action

http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/24593/thierry-de-montbrial/for-a-new-world-economic-order

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/15/swift-iran-sanctions_n_1347361.html

Eisenhower’s Early Warnings Against What Has Now Come

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rd8wwMFmCeE)

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on Sun Apr 7th 2013 at 17:37:40 King

Well Bulanik, I’m surprised that you’re interested! Most people are not. Once you see what the U.S. is really up to militarily, in the technological and world domination department, it makes you wonder what these people are really looking to usher in?

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rc7i0wCFf8g)

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHN-Mac85A4)

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAbhRxmA46I)

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUMzYQR4rZw)

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFFG7khF1lk)

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1r-3q9PXoM)

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1etgsNU46s4)

Is it really what they are saying publicly, and if so, why are they building what they are building? Given the documented evidence displayed above, what kind or world do they really want, and who will be in charge of it?

“For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.”

Thessalonians

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on Tue Apr 9th 2013 at 05:44:21 King

Although the U.S. enjoys the benefit of drone technology, enemy drones will not be tolerated. It seems that another long anticipated DAPA project has arrived in the theater—the laser weapons are now being deployed on naval ships, soon to also be deployed on mobile truck platform. It’s current primary use is to shoot down any enemy drones with an infra-red laser beam.

http://news.yahoo.com/navys-laser-weapon-blasts-bad-215808231.html

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on Tue Apr 9th 2013 at 06:09:30 Fiamma

Regarding the Sandy Hook massacre, there’s a story that’s been going around the web for a while now that the whole thing was staged in order to get gun control laws passed with less resistance….As I’ve only taken a cursory glance at the supposed evidence of it being a hoax, I’m not sure if there’s any validity to theory or not.

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on Tue Apr 9th 2013 at 08:47:29 dave

Hey Mbeti…. keep the kids out of it …ok. That will start to piss me off.

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on Tue Apr 9th 2013 at 09:35:24 v8driver

@Fiamma it’s called the “Sandy Hook truther movement” and if you believe that, well then John Hinckley was programmed by the CIA wait… “DON’T TAKE THE BROWN ACID!”

regarding drones and anti-drone laser systems, I wonder if the the lasers will be deployed state-side. And surely we’re not hearing about who else has drones, ostensibly the Chinese?

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTpP412fM8U)
laser shooting down some type of little aircraft, no attributes to it…

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on Tue Apr 9th 2013 at 17:35:27 jefe

Her reign overlapped with Ronald Reagan, didn’t it. 😛

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on Tue Apr 9th 2013 at 18:07:44 King

regarding drones and anti-drone laser systems, I wonder if the the lasers will be deployed state-side. And surely we’re not hearing about who else has drones, ostensibly the Chinese?

The Chinese are building first generation drones. No reports to date that they have been weaponized. Most non-U.S. drones are for surveillance and intel. purposes However, they are also vulnerable to radar detection (as are 1st gen. U.S. drones)

The current aerial drones are only useful against relatively low tech nations that cannot successfully defend against air attacks. However, they would all be shot down within an hour of being fielded if they were deployed against a technology-capable adversary. Which is why the current drone fleet should be seen as temporary. The real aerial drone fleet has been developed incorporating stealth technology and will not be detectable using current radar defense systems.

http://killerapps.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2013/04/08/heres_lockheeds_brand_new_stealth_drone_design

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/12/secret-drones/

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on Wed Apr 10th 2013 at 22:50:48 King of Trouble

＠Bulanik, yes indeed he was her soulmate. I always thought Nancy looked a little jealous. They use to praise her in my schools Maggie’s got balls I remember our teacher had us write a social studies paper on her why the British had to fight for the Falklands. As a kid I thought she could easily have ran for the American President the way the people around me hero worshipped her. I wish I were at home so I could pull out my 5th and 6th grade work two years of having to write about her. I always imagine that is why Nancy posed in Mr. T’s lap.

@ King I think the Navy has laser beam tech which one shot would only cost them a dollar. Plus they say it is pretty accurate they want to put it on all their ships. So if Drones are about we might start seeing laser wars, in the meanwhile scientist say that the lasers could damage satellites. Yeah, war aren’t we a grand species.

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on Fri Apr 12th 2013 at 17:26:59 King

Wow, I found this History Channel documentary that really displays explains well much of what I posted above. I had never seen this before.

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETkyIFfXjpM)

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on Sat Apr 13th 2013 at 08:59:35 Mbeti

@dave

the old “not in front of the kids”
“I’m doing it for the children” “I have to feed my kids”
rationale now huh…
well I’ll put up the one valuable thing even a poor man like me has – honesty and truth..

Just as adults hide behind children children hide behind adults…I
as i grow older knowledge and experience challenges conventional “wisdom”
that all are deserving of life (or even a long one) or that justice is granted by courts and weapons but not fate.

Just as children will (if they live) become adults (some of whom will be murderers,etc) all adults are doomed to die….

How many should I care for ,who do not care for me,who do not know me nor I them,much less those fated against me and others friend and foe alike….

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on Thu May 30th 2013 at 13:18:19 billy

wow i cant stand the hate fullness why would you hate on a report about inocent kids being killed, am sorry if your black and many black people die in chicago or africa its not right BUT THIS IS ALSO NOT RIGHT! your so mad and dedicated on africa peace then do more than hate one report at least they work on exposing it just like in $$$$ africa KENYA $1.2 billion in 2011,757 millionfor south africa/ethiopia 607million/uganda469million…picking random some get way more just from us goverment not prive i could do this all dayt or other nations…shut your ignorant mouth and do something that useful insted of hating on someone thats tryingo and i lost my good friend 6 week ago to a chicago shooting.. yeah india too hater lady

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on Sun Jun 30th 2013 at 05:44:20 Mbeti
on Fri Aug 2nd 2013 at 19:18:13 King

Keep watching, it’s still happening.

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrjXRRzTwOY)

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on Tue Aug 13th 2013 at 03:01:03 Bulanik

I used to take an interest in logistics, and always used to think that the drawings of flying transport units were possible.

Andreas Raptopoulos (Matternet) didn’t just think this was possible, he went and did it. Other uses of drones technology:
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOjNyINbIX4)

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on Sun Sep 15th 2013 at 20:13:45 King

@ Bulanik

Unfortunately noble purposes are always subverted. The same agenda continues to unroll quietly but relentlessly. And no power on earth can stop it.

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2013/09/hydra-darpa/

http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2013-01/15/darpa-seabed-drones

Just who is The Superpower trying to deter, at this point? When the seas are soon full of DARPA drones the world’s oceans will belong to the U.S. and it will be centuries before any power can take them back (if ever).

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on Sun Sep 15th 2013 at 20:43:16 King

oops, missed one…

http://www.helpfreetheearth.com/news858_drones.html

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on Fri Sep 20th 2013 at 21:49:48 Bulanik

@ King, can we connect up some dots?

The information you have provided gives some strong clues (!) about what lurks in the skies and seas, and what can crawl on the earth, but as you say, most people are not aware and not interested in what the World Domination Department of their military is up to.

What might have the potential to disturb more people are the uses that can come out common home/personal-use technologies and services they might take for granted. For starters, concerns like Apple or Google — apparently commercial concerns — aren’t these, more precisely, intelligence tools? They are pre-installed spying equipment that offer users freebies and store personal info, location, and such. I was watching a TV programme in England once about the surveillance potential of not only servers and PCs that we already know about, but now more so, the intrusive potential of social media.

Even if people might doubt that the media is owned by the intelligence services, what are globalized, digital societies anyway?

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on Sun Sep 22nd 2013 at 17:46:11 Bulanik

…I guess any of us would carry around a signalling device, or identifiable chip or pin.

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on Tue Nov 19th 2013 at 10:36:06 Why should government be kept smaller, and restricted to only certain tasks? - Page 15 - US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

[…] Victim Stories | Living Under Drones Drone attacks in Pakistan – Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia The incomplete list of children Obama has killed with drones | Abagond Robert Greenwald: U.S. Drone Strikes Are Causing Child Casualties: Video and Report No Obama tears […]

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on Tue Nov 19th 2013 at 11:26:29 King

Good questions, Bulanik…

http://www.rightsidenews.com/2013111233458/us/homeland-security/what-are-the-off-white-boxes-that-are-going-up-on-utility-poles-all-over-seattle.html

I think it’s pretty clear what kind of world is being created

http://www.livescience.com/41106-big-brother-streetlights-intellistreets.html

It is a system built to control every man woman and child in the world. For the most part, Race is a distraction. Even nationalism is a distraction. And the idea that in the US government there are “Democrats” and “Republicans” playing different roles based on two different philosophies is also just a distraction.

The things that really matter… Like the drones, or the surveillance state, go on under both parties with equal speed while the world is distracted. In the end there are only 2 kinds of people.

The Initiates
The Cattle

All of us are the latter, and very soon the former will have finished weaving their web and then nothing else in the world will matter. Too late the world will see it. But it’s all there, even now, it’s all there in front of us, if we just look.

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on Wed Nov 20th 2013 at 14:12:12 OBAMA CRIES FOR WHITE CHILDREN YET STILL KILLS BROWN CHILDREN | BROWN PEOPLE

[…] https://abagond.wordpress.com/2012/12/17/obama-cries-for-white-children/ […]

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on Wed Nov 20th 2013 at 17:32:15 Mike Kress

Well put King, couldn’t have put it better myself. This is certainly happening, The real question is though, will anyone care to start doing something about it?

Most refuse to believe it is even happening, and this is what they want. Don’t feel bad once you do realize, I just pray that you all realize BEFORE it is too late.

Wake up, question everything, don’t watch the news. You have been lied to in every form of media since before the 40’s.

Do yourself a favor and watch a movie on Tesla’s hidden inventions. Once you realize our government suppressed CLEAN AND FREE EVERY FOR ALL, you can’t help but realize everything is not what it seems. It changes EVERYTHING, who you trust, who you listen to. Just remember love conquers all.

Here is a link to the video that I hope wakes you up. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5uiK_QnyrE#t=418)

And to think we are probably ALL banking with the man known as JP Morgan, despite the fact he has been part of the Elite since the 40’s. He took advantage of Tesla and discredited him out of what seemed like sheer amusement. If you are currently banking with someone (JP Morgan) and you know he, his actions, and his agenda, are all EVIL, then why do we continue playing as their puppets?

Because we need to do this united! If half of you, or more, are still essentially unconscious to what is happening right now, then we will NEED you awake for this. Please wake up, take a gamble and actually teach yourself something, because it’s VERY different from what we were taught in school.

Heck, in school I was told Thomas Edison was a good man. They forgot to mention he was a stubborn knieving man who took every chance he had to discredit Tesla and suppress free every for all, just because he wants to keep charging citizens with expensive dirty electric. Shame on him, rot in hell.

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on Thu Nov 21st 2013 at 07:20:00 King

…couldn’t have put it better myself. This is certainly happening, The real question is though, will anyone care to start doing something about it?

Most refuse to believe it is even happening, and this is what they want. Don’t feel bad once you do realize, I just pray that you all realize BEFORE it is too late.”

No, this goes too deep for people to realize BEFORE it happens. In fact it’s already happening. But it’s too deep. The things that have been done can’t be undone… at least not by us.

http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2013/11/20/exclusive_inside_americas_plan_to_kill_online_privacy_rights_everywhere

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on Thu Nov 21st 2013 at 07:44:15 King

Just a follow-up on what we discussed about strategic energy policy ‘warfare’ which I argued would eventually be significantly more dangerous to the Middle East than drone attacks.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-06-18/americans-exporting-more-oil-first-time-since-70s.html

A new milestone has been reached in regard to this strategy.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2012/02/us-exported-more-gasoline-than-imported-last-year/1#.Uo22kaVix8s

The U.S. is now exporting more gasoline than it is importing. Projections are that by 2017 the U.S. will actually begin exporting more crude than it imports.The Middle East oil producers are about to lose quite a bit of global leverage, power, and wealth, all of which the US will gain. (as planned)

http://csbj.com/2013/01/03/reality-about-oil-imports-exports-might-surprise-you/

All of this is really happening, step by step.

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on Tue Nov 26th 2013 at 21:44:23 King

Popular Science is a pretty mainstream scientific journal…

http://www.popsci.com/article/science/how-scientists-are-learning-shape-our-memory?dom=PSC&loc=slider&lnk=1&con=spotless-minds

Hmm…

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on Tue Nov 26th 2013 at 23:15:03 Bulanik

Add to that, King, the insertion of the cyborg undetected by the general populace. If the next step is the scheduling of autonomous robots as “trusted member of the military”, that can not only scan a given area for enemy combatants using thermal imaging and send live images back to the command centre…then, how soon will these machines look and smell and respond in a humanoid way — just like us?

It reminds me of the bit in Terminator films where we see inside the Terminator’s head, all infra-red and “detailed files”.

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9244060/U.S._military_may_have_10_robots_per_soldier_by_2023

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on Wed Nov 27th 2013 at 00:42:11 v8driver

skynet

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on Wed Nov 27th 2013 at 00:59:53 Bulanik

In the end there are only 2 kinds of people.

The Initiates
The Cattle

All of us are the latter,

You’ve raised the question a few times, how come we are so passive and uninterested in what is happening? I wish I knew.

Sometimes the word “cattle” sprang to mind, sometimes not.
In my mind I likened it to the abattoir sequence from “The Hour of the Furnaces”, remembering of course that that the role of ideological penetration is always most successful when we can no longer perceive our submission to it…

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJrkmTatFO0)

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on Wed Nov 27th 2013 at 01:08:18 King

Well Bulanik, all I’ve been trying to do above on this thread is to post articles from reasonably reliable sources of things that, by common admission, already exist—with a few future projections by named experts in their fields.

So, DARPA is at this point allowing things to leak to the public through YouTube videos. These things clearly exist. Therefore, most would argue logically that what we are seeing on YouTube are no longer considered to be “sensitive.” So that would mean that the currently “Secret” level programs are hidden just as these were once hidden. However, what those are, I cannot honestly say with any authority.

But, in the case of humaniform “drones” (or what we would call “robots”) those are being developed and tested (as seen on several links above) by defense contractor, Boston Dynamics (among others). But to my knowledge the first models are effective as fighting machines but crude. And of course artificial intelligence has not progressed sufficiently to allow them to “think like us.”

But how long until they are mimicking humans? I just don’t know.

They seem to be going in a lot of directions:

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2008/04/usually-our-dys/

http://auvac.org/community-information/community-news/view/1689

Humaniform is not always the most efficient configuration in all cases, and for all missions. But yes, as strange and “far out” as it sounds, Skynet is real. They have the first parts of it deployed in the wars. They are actively developing the rest of it and it’s all verifiable. It’s not even secret.

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on Wed Nov 27th 2013 at 01:14:18 Bulanik

Hmm, it’s not even secret.
Comment in moderation.

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on Wed Nov 27th 2013 at 06:18:21 King

You’ve raised the question a few times, how come we are so passive and uninterested in what is happening? I wish I knew.”

Bulanik, did you ever read Watership Down, as a child?

Do you remember Cowslip’s warren?

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on Wed Nov 27th 2013 at 10:40:10 Bulanik

No, King — I couldn’t read when I was a child (dyslexia), but I learned about the Cowslip’s Warren much later.

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on Wed Nov 27th 2013 at 17:05:38 King

Ah yes. I’m sorry, I was forgetting about your early dyslexia.

Suffice to say that I believe that we are now living in Cowslip’s Warren and we don’t show any real interest for all of the same reasons,

But we are unmistakably heading to Efrafa.
Everything we see points to that.

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on Wed Nov 27th 2013 at 18:11:08 Bulanik

It’s a tricky thing to put into words, King, but the method used to “signpost” many of us in that direction is being done by inflicting us with too much choice.

Remember the filmed sequence in the abattoir with cutaways of lifestyle advertising? So much responsibility, and choice.
So much self-betterment, and self-creation.
Venusian women, Martian men.
Taking the road less traveled, tapping into our best self; so much self- this and self-that, we have to help ourselves through self-help. Mix in all the insights and advice and empowerment of living vicariously through celebrities…
What if FEELS like is too much: sensory overkill as a mechanism of control. It’s a sense of relentless decision fatigue, deliberately induced.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/21/magazine/do-you-suffer-from-decision-fatigue.html?_r=

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on Wed Nov 27th 2013 at 21:01:34 King

Hmm… that’s an insightful observation. I can’t say that I’ve considered it in quite that way before. But it does seem that we are given:

– Many choices in the things that don’t matter
– Few or no choices in the things that matter most

It maintains a certain illusion of freedom, does it not? How can we be losing our freedom when we have so many more choices to make?

But of course, it’s not really the number of choices is it? It’s who controls which choices can be made and which ones are off limits. And all along, the science fiction keeps coming true before our eyes… and nobody cares. 🙂

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on Wed Nov 27th 2013 at 22:04:27 Kwamla

@ King and Bulanik

We have the choice of behaving more like “Initiates” or “Cattle” once we know what the real choices are. Anything else is sleep walking…But also, accepting some people will actually prefer this.

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on Wed Nov 27th 2013 at 22:29:09 King

Most people prefer it now… But slowly they will realize how utterly trapped they really are. But what’s to be done when everything you say is recorded? Everyone you meet or converse with is known. Everything you write is kept in a file with your name on it.

Then, the cost of dissent will be much higher. Too high for almost anyone to pay.

To the Morlocks, there is but one purpose for the Eloi.

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on Wed Nov 27th 2013 at 23:20:25 Vajackster

Abagond, this is a really great post. Very hard-hitting, the horrible truth. So I commend you for that. But the title is all wrong. This post is, like you said, about how the lives of innocent children victim to Obama’s drone attacks matter just as much as the lives of the innocent children killed in the Newtown mass shooting. But the title suggests that the lives of the Newtown victims don’t matter. Maybe it should be called “Obama cries only for white children,” or something like that.

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on Thu Nov 28th 2013 at 14:45:36 Kwamla

It matters not that everything can be intercepted or recorded King…Remember this works both ways (Snowden) Nothing secret can stay hidden for ever. The control over the information that is used to manipulate the “cattle” is slowly being eroded away. It only takes a few “initiates” to break away from this control and influence or present the choice for many others to do the same.This increases exponentially. The ruling elite would not have the resources to be able to control such people even if they knew who they were.

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on Thu Nov 28th 2013 at 15:04:43 Matari

Freedom is an illusion!

If we were truly free, we’d have the ability to always follow our conscience, AND to say NO…. I don’t want to do this, or that. Try saying NO to the STATE and find out how free you really are.

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on Thu Nov 28th 2013 at 15:17:28 Christopher Columbus

@Matari

Freedom is not Free. Collateral Damage is a necessary evil unfortunately.

Drones keep us safe….Drones keep our great men and women of the Armed forces safe…Drones are Necessary!

One of the very few things I support Obammie on…He continued to use them against our enemies regardless of how many Neville Chamberlains whined to him to stop using them.

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on Thu Nov 28th 2013 at 15:30:14 King

“Nothing secret can stay hidden for ever.”

Some things can.

But, as you know, they don’t have to remain hidden to work.

http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subclass-cnt.aspx?id=20131104000048&cid=1101

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on Thu Nov 28th 2013 at 16:04:06 King

“One of the very few things I support Obammie on…He continued to use them against our enemies regardless of how many Neville Chamberlains whined to him to stop using them.”

What about when he starts using them on you?

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/fbi-director-acknowledges-domestic-drone-use/

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on Thu Nov 28th 2013 at 17:31:15 Kwamla

@King

“Nothing secret can stay hidden for ever.”

There is something called the akashic records which contains a record of all events that have taken place on this planet. If you accept its existence and know how to access these records then any secret can be made known.

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on Thu Nov 28th 2013 at 18:15:32 King

What makes you think that the keepers are not themselves the Esoterics, the Elite, the Initiates? Do you know what they are?

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on Thu Nov 28th 2013 at 19:57:21 v8driver

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/magick/kreeeping-ooze/part9/#b

“In the Tattvic (Indian/Hindu/Tantric) system of the five principles
(this is similar though not necessarily identical to the European or
Chinese systems of five elements), Akasha is the principal of spirit or
ether. This concept is comparable to the ‘spirit’ of the Western/European
(Greek/Egyptian/Gnostic/Kaballistic) systems.”

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on Thu Nov 28th 2013 at 20:01:35 v8driver

iam stop that right there before i go off on a 93 tangent but…

“When juxtaposed with Nuit in The Book of the Law, Hadit represents each unique point-experience. These point-experiences in aggregate comprise the sum of all possible experience, Nuith.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadit

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on Sun Dec 8th 2013 at 03:55:38 King

If you care for just a peek at just some of it—a very small part of the bigger whole—you should rent this documentary. It speaks of things that aren’t often heard. It’s not everything.

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KpzBAKJmig)

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on Tue Dec 17th 2013 at 23:50:59 King

Google acquires the robot empire.
Google/Boston Dynamics continues to move toward the Cyberdyne end goal.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/google-search-and-destroy-the-internet-giant-motto-dont-be-evil-has-bought-a-pioneer-of-scary-robot-animals-can-its-ethics-survive-9007562.html

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on Wed Dec 18th 2013 at 19:58:33 Bulanik

@ King, it always takes time for the implications to sink in…

Thank you for highlighting the “Dirty Wars” documentary. I’m going to find it and watch it, and would ask you to share your thoughts on the film.
The business of covert war is expanding, and it’s not for our eyes, but it’s something that has to be discussed.

Right now, it seems that:
1) when robots and drones do the killing of targeted populations it saves lives of those that own the technology and,
2) when war is “privatized”, more can be achieved because no one can be court marshaled.

In the face of technology superiority, how do people fight back? I remember that when the US army bombarded the lands of Vietnam so that no one could survive on it, the Viet Cong dug tunnels (Cu Chi), layers of tunnels deep below that scorched and poisoned ground. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azxnc1nDkos)

Machines as the combatants are another thing altogether.
If humans dug and fought from under ground, wouldn’t the machines have body-heat sensors/infra red to locate their bodies in the earth, for example? And how does a human fight a machine which is invisible? There are machines/weapons being developed that move too fast for the human eye to register them. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9bcekk_QS0)

But, I am overstepping.
That fightback I am presupposing, and the human ability to invent stuff as counter-attack, is only possible if the WILL to fight back continues to live in them. It’s possible to beat an enemy if their minds tell them it is futile to resist, isn’t that so?

Earlier I mentioned Google pre-installing spying equipment that offer users freebies and stores personal info, location…all in the form of everday PCs, laptops. Let’s not to forget the surveillance potential of social media. We have made ourselves sitting targets.

You’ve asked a few times how a population (with easy access to technology) becomes passive and uninterested in any of this? I suggested sensory overkill — this way human minds shutdown through decision fatigue, deliberately induced. (https://abagond.wordpress.com/2012/12/17/obama-cries-for-white-children/#comment-203067)

This is a branch of Antipolitics. Legion explained it so well here: (https://abagond.wordpress.com/2013/12/17/megyn-kelly-santa-is-white/#comment-205919)

Above I said that the role of ideological penetration is always most successful when we can no longer perceive our submission to it. Because there are many ways to skin a cat.

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on Wed Jan 22nd 2014 at 03:51:12 King

Bulanik, I really have to check this thread more often. I always mis your comments until weeks later!

Just confirming again, that all the main points discussed continue to be borne out in article after article. Here is the latest.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/10587820/US-Army-considers-replacing-thousands-of-troops-with-robots.html

We shall see.

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on Wed Jan 22nd 2014 at 05:56:21 Michael Jon Barker

I remember this tragedy and I also remember how I was thinking at the time that Americans viewed their human value as far more important then anybody else. Americans are disconnected to the death and misery of our foreign policy that’s “keeps us safe”. The reality is were no safer killing these people by drones wherever they may be. We kill them because we can.

Their are 2.3 billion Muslims in the world and maybe 10,000 are militant fanatics. But because of our supremacy the other 2.3 billion are viewed with suspicion and profiled as potential threats.

A few days ago this audio was released of Lanza calling in to a college radio show. He sounds soft spoken, focused and intelligent, nothing like what I would have imagined him to be. Yet he killed in a cold blooded fashion in a detached kind of way. Almost like a drone operator.

(http://www.katu.com/news/local/Newtown-gunman-apparently-called-UO-radio-station-in-2011-240585391.html)

This is “Murder by Joy Stick”. A short nice piece.

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugDYszCFbc8)

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on Fri Feb 7th 2014 at 03:09:56 King

Highly recommended, “Dirty Wars”

Dirty Wars – Part 1/6
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYDEfobW43s)

Dirty Wars – Part 2/6
(http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Dirty%20Wars%20-%20Part%202%2F6&sm=3)

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on Fri Feb 7th 2014 at 03:52:20 King

More “Dirty Wars”

Dirty Wars – Part 3/6
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqaUlHKiyC4)

Dirty Wars – Part 4/6
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iN3NxUVX7mw)

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on Fri Feb 7th 2014 at 04:39:53 King

The last 2 parts of “Dirty Wars”

Dirty Wars – Part 5//6
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMyCGPK1PnU)

Dirty Wars – Part 6/6
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDl0rNLNMEE)

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on Fri Feb 7th 2014 at 15:51:54 King

^ The most Sobering part is that Barak Obama seems to be complicit in all of this. It really is heartbreaking and sickening.

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on Fri Feb 7th 2014 at 16:19:01 Bulanik

@ King, thank you the links. Will watch.

***

Btw, the new “Robocop” film is out.
This idea of dropping robots into warzones means maximum atrocity can be committed and no one can court marshall a machine for excessive and unnecessary this or that.

And of course, there maybe a time when putting legally dead, but re-animated humans — or the living and thinking remains of them — into those machines may be the most efficient of army drones.

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INmtQXUXez8)

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on Fri Feb 7th 2014 at 17:12:01 King

This idea of dropping robots into warzones means maximum atrocity can be committed and no one can court marshall a machine for excessive and unnecessary this or that.”

Yikes to your link! Yes please have a gander at the links when you have the chance. It seems they are not waiting for the robots to begin their ‘maximum atrocities.’ I’d like to hear your opinion when you’ve seen some of the footage.

He’s a politician King, as rotten as any of them. Should be thought of as axiomatic.”

I’d like your opinion of the links I posted as well, Legion. You are right of course… but … well let me know what you think. 😦

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on Fri Feb 7th 2014 at 17:42:49 King

^At your leisure sir… at your leisure.

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on Sun Feb 9th 2014 at 15:07:21 Bulanik

@ King

We were discussing serveillance intruding into the lives of ordinary people on another thread: https://abagond.wordpress.com/2014/02/04/how-daily-life-has-changed-in-the-last-30-years/#comment-213447

When I started to watch the doc, “Dirty Wars”, this was apparent:

The US military is manufacturing a perpetual war and State of Emergency to last forever to justify the loss / erosion of rights to create the totalitarian state.

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on Sun Feb 9th 2014 at 15:31:11 The MAD Jewess

I am sorry for my disgusting country.
May God avenge people all over the world tormented by US murdering psychopathic govt.

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on Sun Feb 9th 2014 at 16:56:32 Bulanik

@ King

Re: US death squads’ night time strikes:

Robert Bales is accussed of the massacre of 17 people in Afghanistan. Apparently this ONE man shot these men, women and children and then dragged them all into one room and set them on fire…

This doesn’t tally with the account of the rest of the villagers who survived the incident (some children) and reported the presence of US military’s helicoptors and team of soldiers — basically a well-planned operation. Even Robert Bales was apprehended and not allowed to speak to Afghan investigators.

Perhaps the only thing that went “wrong” was this operation was that there were survivors, and their accounts of that night reached the news.

The response of calling Robert Bales a lone “rogue” attacker, out on a personal killing spree is a cover up. Robert Bales is a patsy.

How Australian news has reported it:
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkyvKuFuEs4)

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on Sun Feb 9th 2014 at 19:15:02 Bulanik

@ King —

re: the Dirty Wars documentary.
Firstly, I have to thank you for it, because it’s required viewing.
Secondly, I have to say it’s not required viewing only because of its content.

The film tells us that the US military is out of control.
But the tone of the film is that it seems surprised by its own discovery.
Entire villages are bombed to kill one person, then it’s denied afterwards.
At home, the public don’t care, because it’s killing in the national interests.
They are also desensitized. (We talked about that earlier.)

I don’t think people have become desensitized because they are bored of watchng wars in those countries for years and years.
I’d go further and say that If it was a Pakistani or Yemeni doing the reporting, they would care even less.

It has to be white, Western man, a non-Muslim who has to make that film, for it to get listened to.
For a narrative to be believed it has to be a white person who narrates iy.
That is what makes a narration about non-white, or anyone lower in status, really PERSONAL and credible.
This is like the way the Jewish Holocaust has a ring of fame and credibility about it because the victims were white and European.

The way it works, Westerners aren’t supposed to care about the lives of Asians or Africans. They’re not really people, are they? That goes across the board, even when the Westerners in question are of Asian or African descent themselves. The suffering of peopole in those far-off is places is all quite sad and unfortunate, sure, but not really bloody murder and something outrageous.
The pain threshold of people in turbans — is “DIFFERENT”.
The Western perspective has traditionally been powered through on justifications of:
* self-protection, and,
* management of valuable resources,
Much like rooting out poisonous weeds on good farm land.

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on Sun Feb 9th 2014 at 19:29:43 Bulanik

What I want to know, King, is exactly how this level of apathy was created.

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on Sun Feb 9th 2014 at 19:42:29 King

Ah good Bulanik, you’ve seen it.

I don’t think I understand what exactly is going on… all I understand is that it’s not what we are told is going on. The war is not about the war, it’s about something else. OK, this sounds crazy, I know, but are the wars a diversion? What is the point of all the covert killing? Who is on “the List” and what do they share in common. What is the end game of the “American Taliban” troops?

Also, it seems clear that there is an army within the army. The average American soldier doesn’t know what’s going on. These are elite’s who seem to be doing this. Belonging to Special Ops is like being initiated into a secret society.

I agree with you about the Robert Bales massacre. It seems to fit into a pattern of other unreported massacres. The problem t=is that this one was done clumsily enough to be exposed. Whatever is going on has geopolitical implications. The real question is who is ultimately pulling the strings?

The response of calling Robert Bales a lone “rogue” attacker, out on a personal killing spree is a cover up. Robert Bales is a patsy.

Sounds like plausible deniability to me. I don’t think that his direct superiors had any idea what he was doing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plausible_deniability

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on Sun Feb 9th 2014 at 19:53:16 King

What I want to know, King, is exactly how this level of apathy was created?

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYEG7Soc698)

Maybe death just becomes another game.

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on Sun Feb 9th 2014 at 20:22:23 Bulanik

OK, this sounds crazy, I know, but are the wars a diversion?

King, no, not crazy. There is more than one war of diversion.
There’s something more but have to finish something I’m doing.

Btw, what do you think of the theories of Henry Giroux?

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on Sun Feb 9th 2014 at 22:39:24 abagond

@ Bulanik

That level of apathy, that fake humanity, goes back to at least the 1600s. White people learn not to FEEL anything when it comes to people of colour. Their whole way of life is based on it.

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on Sun Feb 9th 2014 at 22:59:01 abagond

The main difference between Philip K. Dick and the Nazi guard is that Dick sees the Jewish children as white like him.

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on Sun Feb 9th 2014 at 23:01:24 abagond

@ Legion

That is why I said “at least”.

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on Mon Feb 10th 2014 at 13:54:52 Bulanik

@ King, that link to the video game…!

Empathy is the ability to feel what another feels.
Apathy is not caring.
I haven’t a clue how apathy to this type of warfare started, or when.
It’s worth thinking over.

The drone wars and Dirty Wars in Pakistan / Yemen / Somalia / Agfhanistan have precedents in previous wars. But, to me, the Dirty War is most reminiscent of the British Empire’s style of war during its decline.
For example, they used concentration camps in South Africa, among the Boers, that was around 1901. The point was to starve their families up the point where the fighters would give themselves up for execution.

After the concentration camps, it was the British first started using poison gas over Iraq during the 1920s.
They deny it of course. Even now. This stuff goes a long way back.
But, what the British always did when they stole land from, or exterminated or terrorised, a population — was to shield themselves with laws.
Not anyone else’s laws, or principles of justice. Only British law.

Therefore, rules of war were enshrined in manuals of conduct during war.
The law was: what could be done between “civilized” states was very different from what could done unto “uncivilized” states. The 1914 British Manual of Military Law states that ‘the rules of International Law apply only to warfare between civilized nations, … They do not apply in wars with uncivilized States and tribes’.
US laws are founded on British laws, so I’d imagine US military law is no different.

I can’t find a link which shows the text of that 1914 Manual, but I’ve seen it featured in British military and colonial history and also quoted in International law:
(http://books.google.ie/books?id=qUjCI13U5VUC&pg=PA279&lpg=PA279&dq=HMSO+British+Manual+of+Military+Law+(1914),+civilized+states+and+tribes&source=bl&ots=tIzpUDgSXw&sig=v83WGpsDkqIQF1N6l9-p5Wcu_5w&hl=en&sa=X&ei=GtD3UruPM-3G7AaJv4GIBQ&ved=0CCgQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=HMSO%20British%20Manual%20of%20Military%20Law%20(1914)%2C%20civilized%20states%20and%20tribes&f=false)

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on Mon Feb 10th 2014 at 14:02:19 Bulanik

Also, King, no mention of Israel in the documentary.
References to Israel may have been edited out, but as terrorism goes, Israel is far from being a part-timer!

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on Mon Feb 10th 2014 at 15:28:50 King

Wow! great information Bulanik! I am not up on the various tactics used in the sunset of the British Empire! Looks like I’ve got some catching up to do on that part of history. Very interesting, and thanks for that link!

Im also interested in what you said about desensitizing and apathy. It seems clear that war is intentionally being glorified for the young male demographic

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aPnUZUM0Po)

Killing is being normalized as a form of entertainment that you don’t even think about. At the same time, the actual war machines are more and more being controlled remotely as if they were, in fact, video games. Coincidence?

I believe I remember catching a little bit of a reality show called “Amish in the City.” It’s all about Amish kids who come to the city for a period to “try out the world” before returning to Amish life. The part I caught was of one of the Amish young men watching a movie (maybe his first ever). Anyway, the movie had a bit of violence and someone was shot and lay dying. This made the Amish young man literally sick to his stomach and agitated. He got up and left the theater. Outside he threw up. Just goes to show how far we have all come from realizing the proper shock and horror of death.

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on Mon Feb 10th 2014 at 18:08:42 Bulanik

@ King — you’re welcome.
BUT, Britain’s colonial history only seems to come out in drips and trickles. Having a British education certainly doesn’t help; like most people in the same boat, a clearer picture has only been pieced together bit by bit. The Empire had glorified itself to us, you see, and some older history books about Britain’s past seemed to omit or sanitize the very worst aspects.

Open discussion about Britain’s military past hadn’t been fashionable up until about a decade ago. Take this Guardian article outlining the nation’s military past in Mesopotamia (today’s Iraq):

….the army had gassed Iraqi rebels in 1920 “with excellent moral effect”.

Churchill was particularly keen on chemical weapons, suggesting they be used “against recalcitrant Arabs as an experiment”. He dismissed objections as “unreasonable”. “I am strongly in favour of using poisoned gas against uncivilised tribes _ [to] spread a lively terror _” In today’s terms, “the Arab” needed to be shocked and awed. A good gassing might well do the job.

Conventional raids, however, proved to be an effective deterrent. They brought Sheikh Mahmoud, the most persistent of Kurdish rebels, to heel, at little cost … the best way to demoralise local people was to concentrate bombing on the “most inaccessible village of the most prominent tribe which it is desired to punish. All available aircraft must be collected the attack with bombs and machine guns must be relentless and unremitting and carried on continuously by day and night, on houses, inhabitants, crops and cattle.”

..attack with bombs…by day and night, on houses, inhabitants, crops and cattle. That sounds familiar.
(http://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/apr/19/iraq.arts)

The linked video (“Defense of Earth”) is mesmerizing, the animation and music.
In the blurb below, though, the makers say: “…we were just doing this to make something fun, simple and inspirational. I’ve always secretly liked these types of films because they always wanted to make me stand up, and go punch somebody in the face…”

Killing IS being normalized. Isn’t this an outgrowth of a wider culture and very, very common way of thinking which has become far more medicalized (especially regarding pathology) and military in character?

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on Thu Feb 13th 2014 at 00:10:44 mary burrell

There is not a whole lot I can add to this, but this thread post reminds me of a wall poster I owned as a teen. “War is not healthy for children and other living things” That quote succinctly says in my opinion what this whole post is about. All children are precious no matter who they are or where they come from.

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on Thu Feb 13th 2014 at 00:26:22 abagond

In 1950 Hollywood actor Jimmy Stewart met some Apaches. He was surprised to learn that Apache women cried over their sons.

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on Thu Feb 13th 2014 at 00:38:00 mary burrell

@abagond; Are you kidding me. That’s weird.

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on Thu Feb 13th 2014 at 01:01:16 mary burrell

@ Abagond: I get it, this happened in the film.

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on Thu Feb 13th 2014 at 02:36:37 abagond

@ Mary

Right.

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on Thu Feb 13th 2014 at 02:38:45 mary burrell

@Abagond: Dang you made me work for that, I remember that scene from that film. Thanks for helping me tie that up. LOL!!!

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on Thu Feb 13th 2014 at 02:39:47 abagond

@ Mary

Sorry. That was my mistake for not being clear about it.

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on Thu Feb 13th 2014 at 02:52:58 mary burrell

@ Abagond: I do remember that scene and thinking “That’s messed up” The white man thinking that the Apache mother was crying about her dead child. But that’s an example of the white man looking at the dead Apache youth as a savage, not human. I guess that’s how the drone attacks can be thought of. They don’t see these are human lives.

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on Fri Feb 14th 2014 at 15:14:41 King

Btw, what do you think of the theories of Henry Giroux?”

Well, in the tradition of full disclosure, I’ve seen several of his interviews and read a few of his articles, over the years. None recently, and it took me a minute before I remembered who he was—not because he’s not important, but because it’s been a while since I read anything from his pen.

But I have not read through any of his many books, so I’m not “well versed” in his theories. I’m just a person who is aware of him from limited contact with articles and interviews.

From what I recall of his theories, I think he sees much, but he’s blind in one eye. That is to say that his intellect is almost wholly constructed upon Left-wing ideology, which is a problem in a world where both the Left and Right hands are working together behind the facade. He is very good at pointing out many of the inconsistencies of the Right, but only criticizes the Left for not being further Left.

I think he’s spot on when he talks about how Americans seems to be better entertained than informed, but I don’t think he truly understands the scope of the problem. He believes that if we were to remove the Conservatives, the Republicans, The Right-wingers, the NeoCons, then there would be freedom and openness—This in a world where Obama is directly in the chain of command for the secret Special Ops hit squads and global drone attacks. This in a world where “Liberal Hollywood” has long been the worldwide propaganda arm of White Supremacy since Birth of a Nation.

THE LIBERALS ARE EVERY BIT AS CULPABLE AS THE CONSERVATIVES

That is the obvious truth that he is missing by his blindly oppositional politics. It gets easier to see when one stops listening to words and starts looking only at actions. Both Democrats and Republicans are complicit in carrying on the same core American geopolitical agenda. The main purpose of the ‘parties’ is to create the appearance of choice where there is none—a way of reframing tyranny to appear to be something else.

If TPTB simply ordered us all out of the fields and forests into a large holding pen, then we would object to the loss of our freedom to roam. So instead, they take the same pen and divide it in half then ask which of the two pens you and your family will CHOOSE. Is it the pen on the Left? Is it the pen on the Right? Let us tell you how “different” these two pens are, so that you can make an “informed” choice. And once inside you must snort and bray at those who are in the opposite pen because they obviously bad people who made the wrong choice and believe in the wrong things! In fact, before long you will not even remember that there ever was a time when you weren’t in the pen, but free to foam the hills and valleys. Just keep all your concentrate on those other beasts on the other side of the fence! THEY are the enemy.

Anyone who plays this game is a fool, even the highly intellectual fools.

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on Sat Feb 15th 2014 at 16:13:36 Bulanik

@ King

Re Henry Giroux, you said:

I think he’s spot on when he talks about how Americans seems to be better entertained than informed.

I believe that the apathy around this subject is created.
Firstly, I can’t say that I really know the US system from living in it, and frankly, my observations of the the US’s political system leads me to conclude the superficial differences are much of a muchness created to uphold and justify itself. All for the rich and powerful.

Thus, in the context of Obama’s drone warfare, I’d guess that Obama’s liberal constituency wants to believe he is fairer on terrorists than any Republican would be, but no conservative is going to admit that the Obama is actually “harsh” on terrorists…

But it’s not the left-leaning tendency of Henry Giroux’s opinions that have caught my attention or his critique of the US right-wing. Rather, it’s parts of his cultural observations (e.g., his essay called “Hope in the age of looming authoritarianism”). Henry Giroux’s observations such as:

1. replacing independent, critical thinking masquerading with “moral” authority;
2. anger, emotionalism and stupid language reigning supreme over informed arguments;
3. militarization of the social order, public spaces and thought process;
4. fusing power with violence, do not question, but punish instead;
5. mental colonization by corporate and entertainment industries;
6. collapse of public values in favour of a Blaming and Shaming Culture / revelling in Shaming Spectacles;

I believe this propels a population that is permanently immersed in the politics and entertainment of terror, shared fear, insecurity, uncertainity, and under increasing surveillance, into numb-ness. And also into permanent posture of blame.

Dr Giroux says that violence is “the ominscient form of entertainment”.
That war as the way to relate to other nations. Always carry a Big Stick.
The US malls are merged with prisons. It would not be as significant if the USA were not a Superpower.
***

This is the nation where pathology (the study of disease) becomes the mark of a society, where the unknown is defined within deviance and delinquency.
(Imo, a form of colonialist thinking and social control.*)
Pathology, the psychiatric labels for disease, replaces thinking…

I agree with Dr Giroux’s view that politics have become de-politicized.
Imo, that’s why personal badness and evil have become so important — now, it is normal, absolutely normale to shift any critique of the system, society or the societal contect onto the individual.

This is why US culture psychologizes and medicalizes so excessively.
It is a trick which makes the individual look for the answers from within where they can not be found since the problem is around them, not in them.
Obedient acknowledgement by the inner-self problem means the individual bows to the psychiatric-corporate label and receives psychiatric-corporate treatment for it, by being a patient/consumer of the corrective and the remedial medicine. Medicine is now a major corporate capitalist enterprise. It’s a growth industry — jobs are at stake!
Why care when you can take a tablet or pill?
After all, in US “pathology” culture, mental illness is now the leading cause of disability in children…**

Increasingly the problems and “issues” do NOT rise from that society and its conditions. The fix for that is to fix the society. BUT that would be truly dangerous.

To misquote Hannah Arendt, “we are on the run from totalitarianism”.

*https://abagond.wordpress.com/2013/01/03/if-you-like-this-blog-you-might-also-like/#comment-199194

**http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2011/jun/23/epidemic-mental-illness-why/?pagination=false

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on Sat Feb 15th 2014 at 16:15:11 Bulanik

@ King

Re Henry Giroux, you said:

I think he’s spot on when he talks about how Americans seems to be better entertained than informed.

I believe that the apathy around this subject is created.
Firstly, I can’t say that I really know the US system from living in it, and frankly, my observations of the the US’s political system leads me to conclude the superficial differences are much of a muchness created to uphold and justify itself. All for the rich and powerful.

Thus, in the context of Obama’s drone warfare, I’d guess that Obama’s liberal constituency wants to believe he is fairer on terrorists than any Republican would be, but no conservative is going to admit that the Obama is actually “harsh” on terrorists…

But it’s not the left-leaning tendency of Henry Giroux’s opinions that have caught my attention or his critique of the US right-wing. Rather, it’s parts of his cultural observations (e.g., his essay called “Hope in the age of looming authoritarianism”). Henry Giroux’s observations such as:

1. replacing independent, critical thinking masquerading with “moral” authority;
2. anger, emotionalism and stupid language reigning supreme over informed arguments;
3. militarization of the social order, public spaces and thought process;
4. fusing power with violence, do not question, but punish instead;
5. mental colonization by corporate and entertainment industries;
6. collapse of public values in favour of a Blaming and Shaming Culture / revelling in Shaming Spectacles;

I believe this propels a population that is permanently immersed in the politics and entertainment of terror, shared fear, insecurity, uncertainity, and under increasing surveillance, into numb-ness. And also into permanent posture of blame.

Dr Giroux says that violence is “the ominscient form of entertainment”.
That war as the way to relate to other nations. Always carry a Big Stick.
The US malls are merged with prisons. It would not be as significant if the USA were not a Superpower.
***

This is the nation where pathology (the study of disease) becomes the mark of a society, where the unknown is defined within deviance and delinquency.
(Imo, a form of colonialist thinking and social control.*)
Pathology, the psychiatric labels for disease, replaces thinking…

I agree with Dr Giroux’s view that politics have become de-politicized.
Imo, that’s why personal badness and evil have become so important — now, it is normal, absolutely normale to shift any critique of the system, society or the societal contect onto the individual.

This is why US culture psychologizes and medicalizes so excessively.
It is a trick which makes the individual look for the answers from within where they can not be found since the problem is around them, not in them.
Obedient acknowledgement by the inner-self problem means the individual bows to the psychiatric-corporate label and receives psychiatric-corporate treatment for it, by being a patient/consumer of the corrective and the remedial medicine. Medicine is now a major corporate capitalist enterprise. It’s a growth industry — jobs are at stake!
Why care when you can take a tablet or pill?
After all, in US “pathology” culture, mental illness is now the leading cause of disability in children…**

Increasingly the problems and “issues” do NOT rise from that society and its conditions. The fix for that is to fix the society. BUT that would be truly dangerous.

To misquote Hannah Arendt, “we are on the run from totalitarianism”.

*https://abagond.wordpress.com/2013/01/03/if-you-like-this-blog-you-might-also-like/#comment-199194

**http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2011/jun/23/epidemic-mental-illness-why/?pagination=false

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on Sat Feb 15th 2014 at 16:25:48 Bulanik

King, sorry about all the typo corrections. Sentences should read:
*replacing independent, critical thinking masquerading as “moral” authority;
*That war is the way to relate to other nations
*Obedient acknowledgement of the problem by the inner-self means the individual bows to the psychiatric-corporate label and receives psychiatric-corporate treatment for it, by being a patient/consumer of the corrective and the remedial medicine.

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on Sat Feb 15th 2014 at 16:28:04 Bulanik

@ Abagond, please delete this comment: https://abagond.wordpress.com/2012/12/17/obama-cries-for-white-children/#comment-214988

posted twice.

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on Sat Feb 15th 2014 at 21:21:18 King

And the beat goes on with the American military world domination machine (with equal speed under Liberals or Conservatives)

http://news.yahoo.com/military-39-39-iron-man-39-suit-may-141715486.html

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on Sat Feb 15th 2014 at 22:19:57 King

I believe that the apathy around this subject is created.

Intentionally, yes. I totally agree.

Now as to the spot on observations

Henry Giroux’s observations such as:

1. replacing independent, critical thinking masquerading with “moral” authority;
2. anger, emotionalism and stupid language reigning supreme over informed arguments;
3. militarization of the social order, public spaces and thought process;
4. fusing power with violence, do not question, but punish instead;
5. mental colonization by corporate and entertainment industries;
6. collapse of public values in favour of a Blaming and Shaming Culture / revelling in Shaming Spectacles;

I couldn’t agree more… really. In fact I could probably copy and paste in your whole past and say that I concur 100%

As I said, I think that Henry Giroux sees much.
And that many of his observations about society are spot on.

My only bone to pick is that he doesn’t seem to understand the system behind the problems he so perspicuously illuminates. He keeps pointing to only one parent as the source of bruising when both of them are clearly abusive and that is dangerous because his politics are more important to him than the truth.

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on Sun Feb 16th 2014 at 13:55:08 Bulanik

@ King

That “Iron Man” suit…wow.

Someone mentioned “American Psycho” recently on a thread. I recall the main character of the novel, Patrick Bateman. He is a businessman and serial killer, rapist, cannibal, and when he hears the word “murders and executions” he hears “mergers and acquisitions” instead. In the film, this character is played by Christian Bale.

These are corporate rationalizations to distance himself from the murder and havoc of his actions. Apathy is a prequisite to governmental killing on the scale we are facing now and will face more and more.
Acquiescence to it is a NUMBED response.

Have you seen the film “Equilibrium”?
It also stars Christian Bale. The story is basically this: ..a future dystopia where both feelings and artistic expression are outlawed and citizens take daily injections of drugs to suppress their emotions…
It is a surveillance and apathy society where everything is “pathological”.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raleKODYeg0)

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on Sun Feb 16th 2014 at 15:57:06 v8driver

@bulanik “equilibrium” – that’s a movie?

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on Sun Feb 16th 2014 at 17:25:49 Bulanik

@ v8. No, not really…

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on Sun Feb 16th 2014 at 17:57:13 King

@ Bulanik

How did I miss “Equilibrium”? I’ve never seen it, but I’ll dig it up now. Thanks!

And great comparison with “American Psycho!” I think they are intentionally creating a generation of American psychos. The precursor of the real always seem to begin as fantasy. Not just as plans and concepts in the creative process, but even in the prescribed ways that we should perceive these things. I’ll grant that our first pop American view of the current tech was dystopian, in the Terminator movie series. But since then, robot/drone tech has become super heroic.

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FIrBZeUUgk)

And things like mech battle suits feel like old technology to teenagers because they (coincidentally) have been fighting battles with this technology in their video games for years now.

These same kids have digitally killed multiple thousands each in their split-second gaming play, where killing enemies becomes second nature. And slowly, the realistic nature of the killing has become more and more graphic. So that the gushing of blood, the moans of the wounded, the cries of fear, and the sense of battle chaos, has become easily compartmentalized as an acceptable part of the “entertainment.” Before long we will need a Voight-Kampff Test for teenagers.

So how then is this applied strategically? Drone control itself is basically a video game. The difference between digital killing and real-world killing is blurred. Empathy has been suppressed by years of “kill game” entertainment.

Here is the Amazon.com introduction to the popular Ender’s Game quintet of books. Do you think that it’s only fantasy, or is it purposeful that teens read this?

In order to develop a secure defense against a hostile alien race’s next attack, government agencies breed child geniuses and train them as soldiers. A brilliant young boy, Andrew “Ender” Wiggin lives with his kind but distant parents, his sadistic brother Peter, and the person he loves more than anyone else, his sister Valentine. Peter and Valentine were candidates for the soldier-training program but didn’t make the cut–young Ender is the Wiggin drafted to the orbiting Battle School for rigorous military training.”

http://www.hatrack.com/osc/books/endersgame/endersgame.shtml

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on Sun Mar 9th 2014 at 14:17:53 Bulanik

@ King,

There is much in your comment to take in, and think about. Thank you.
Contracts and commitments in the real world (!) give me less and less time to visit this blog, but I want to think about what you said before I return.

Earlier on, I touched on how household names, like Google, are spyware in disguise. Also commonplace items, like laptops or IPads, are potential methods of our own own entrapment. It all starts out so innocent right? Computer games are “only” games…using pathologizing language is “only” words… Sure, sure.

I asked myself the questions how many Pakistanis or Yemenis have an internet connection in THEIR homes, and then, how are the big corporations tying up the world’s population within the drone-grid by using internet capability?
After all, most of the world’s population — about 4.5 billion people — are not connected to the internet. Yet, the underlying message is this: THEY SHOULD BE. It’s not like they have a choice! It’s all good, so what’s the problem? After all, look at the jobs connectivity will create…think of all those ads and all the profit to be made, and all the control governments stand to gain over theie populations. That’s the rhetoric.

In a way, this makes those among us who are already connected insular, and almost naively imperalist in our pseudo-sophistication and familiarity with this tool.
This is so because in being connected, it breeds the belief that every one, or everything is on the internet. Not everyone is. Not everyone loves or trusts the internet that is everywhere we turn. Even here, sometimes, on this blog, there is the belief that information or knowledge — somehow — never really existed BEFORE the widespread availability of the internet, or, that there is no TRUTH offline, only lies.
Simple brainwashing: naive and unseeing to what this technology can, and will, do.

One map of Internet penetration across the world:
http://www.kwintessential.co.uk/map/internet-penetration.html

Maps like these show where internet usage still has room to grow.
For instance, the 2 most populous nations of the world are lagging behind at the moment: According to the link above, India has only about 4.5% and China about 8.5% connectivity, so, plenty of room for growth there. What Google has been doing is sending out balloons, rather than drones to bring more users into its catchment area, what they call the “LOON” project: http://www.wired.com/business/2013/06/google_internet_balloons/all/google.com/loon

This is a wonderful thing during, say, earthquakes, but it’s not clear how it can be practically helpful without infrastructures in place.

Facebook, another corporation, and not to be outdone, wants to use drones instead of balloons to rule the web, buying aerospace drone technology as satellites:
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhxDIqQh8mk)

A large drone can act as a mother-ship, sending out smaller versions onto the population, ones that communicate with each other, to gather data.
Not just photos and recordings, but also snatching samples, or snatching people who make trouble, up and away from where they stand, in an eagle-like fashion. The scope for misuse and abuse of this technology is tremendous:

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zE6BaFDkP4)

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on Mon Mar 10th 2014 at 01:15:29 Bulanik

King

These same kids have digitally killed multiple thousands each in their split-second gaming play, where killing enemies becomes second nature. And slowly, the realistic nature of the killing has become more and more graphic. So that the gushing of blood, the moans of the wounded, the cries of fear, and the sense of battle chaos, has become easily compartmentalized as an acceptable part of the “entertainment.”

It happens like that, yes.
When I looked at link you posted with that comment (http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2012/064/6/f/some_interesting_battle_suits_by_scarlighter-d4rsfxf.jpg), the human in the suit looked to me like Jesse Pinkman of “Breaking Bad”. And as I clocked that, I recalled for a moment, an excerpt from an interview with the actor who played character because he said that it freaked him out when young viewers of the series valourise and admire the character he plays, and him, when they should not, because his character kills in cold blood, and he despised that.

What is this process and what is happening inside the brain?
When television became first popular, there were those that spotted its danger. Even ones that worked in broadcasting. The English journalist, Malcolm Muggeridge would say this about relentless and passive viewing:
“….some future generation will discuss as to wherein lay the greatest barbarism? On the part of the executioners? On the part of the viewers?” Some wise person might opt for the cameras.”
http://davidalton.net/2011/05/26/the-legacy-of-malcolm-muggeridge/

What happens to the human brain when it’s exposed to too much internet or gaming? A study by neuroscientists seem to say that the brain’s grey matter atrophies. So, brain damage, basically.
(True, there are all kinds of studies that “prove” all sorts of propositions, but this one has the whiff of sense about it: I think I’ve always felt relentless exposure to media affects and numbs…)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2015196/Too-internet-use-damage-teenagers-brains.html

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on Thu Mar 13th 2014 at 21:09:15 Bulanik

@ KIng….here we are alone as usual 😀

More about maps and internet penetration.
In my earlier comment (thiis one: https://abagond.wordpress.com/2012/12/17/obama-cries-for-white-children/#comment-220064), I provided a map of internet penetration across the world:
(http://www.kwintessential.co.uk/map/internet-penetration.html)

I believe that map shows internt penetration by satellite.
But what about penetration by underwater fibre optics?
These connections are laid on the seabed, and though not as common as satellite, are less susceptible to interference and provided better bandwidth. Their potential to reach remote spots on the planet may be greater than satellite? Not sure.

Here’s a map of the internet cable network that exist under water across the globe:
http://www.submarinecablemap.com/
http://submarine-cable-map-2012.telegeography.com/

***********************************************************************************

So, the skies and the seas are riddled with this technology.
What’s more, the big media companies like FB, Apple, Yahoo, Amazon and Google seems to have major ownership now, as they buy up practically anything. I remember reading that Steve Jobs didn’t approve of acquisitions in principle, because this showed a “failure to innovate”, but that was the olden days…

http://www.fastcodesign.com/3027052/infographic-of-the-day/google-apple-and-facebooks-biggest-acquisitions-over-the-last-15-year

A list like that is all fine, but what do we really know?
Not much, I feel. We don’t know what’s being acquired, for how much, because the big players do a lot of this buying in secret and what they are will tell us about their acquisitions will be just the tip of the iceberg.

http://www.simplybusiness.co.uk/microsites/hungry-tech/

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on Thu Mar 13th 2014 at 21:34:05 Bulanik

@ King, (contd)

….but you know what, I don’t think many of us even realize what the internet really is.
How do you deal with something that you can’t get your head around, that is so big?

Funny how the internet seems to be almost like wallpaper in some places, but for the Germans, not so.

They are are grappling with the concept of “digital infrastructure” and their government really don’t know how to manage something so cross-sectional and far reaching. They are past seeing it as “mere” technology.
Is it a traffic system? What is more, to the Germans, the interent is a:
– huge security concern.
– a huge economic concern.
And, it’s a huge transport concern because of the deployment broadband networks.

In a world saturated with digitization and data, is it luxury for governments NOT to have policies about it?

http://www.dw.de/new-territory-for-old-politics-internet-policy/a-17233203

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on Wed Mar 19th 2014 at 05:28:32 King

Wow… so many good comments Bulanik!

I’ll have to jump in and reply! Thanks for the thoughtful analysis and, of course, the links!! 🙂

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=In2jXn7iyUY)

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on Sat May 31st 2014 at 14:26:32 ruff linkage 201304

[…] Drones, the incomplete list of children Obama has killed by drones – Or; How I have a dream became I have a Drone. […]

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on Fri Jun 20th 2014 at 09:33:08 Madonna at GLAAD | howupsetting

[…] braver to use your platform to draw attention to your own government murdering hundreds (at least) of children with its drone strikes and […]

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on Sat Jun 21st 2014 at 18:40:57 v8driver

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on Wed Aug 13th 2014 at 03:09:32 King

Quietly it continues… the military technological mindset becomes more and more resolved to use, not only human-controlled drones, but the next step: autonomous killer robots.

http://www.au.af.mil/au/afri/aspj/digital/pdf/articles/2014-May-Jun/F-Byrnes.pdf?source=GovD

Lets just say that these ‘opinion papers’ are not written for nothing.

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on Mon Sep 1st 2014 at 13:55:03 Legion

(http://youtu.be/otxwbkwQX-8)

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on Mon Nov 17th 2014 at 19:59:14 Joe Spenner

ARREST OBLOOD-OBAMA FOR MURDER OF INNOCENT CHILDREN WITH
‘HIS BLOODY, DEADLY-DRONES! joe Spenner

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on Wed Jan 14th 2015 at 20:18:45 Bobby M

Who cares if a bunch of Mahometan kids get killed. Each dead Mahometan child is one fewer future jihadist.

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on Tue Feb 10th 2015 at 16:56:53 King

@ Kiwi

Place yourself 10 or 15 years in the past and with that mindset read this paragraph:

A 13-year-old boy killed in Yemen last month by a CIA drone strike had told the Guardian just months earlier that he lived in constant fear of the “death machines” in the sky that had already killed his father and brother.

“I see them every day and we are scared of them,” said Mohammed Tuaiman…”

Does this not sound like a science fiction novel? Drones attacking humans… ‘death machines’ in the sky… drone dreams..

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on Wed Feb 18th 2015 at 01:44:46 King

And now it finally comes full circle. Obama finally monetizes the entire process and begins selling the drones for other nations to use, even as he has used them. Good job! Seriously, is there ANYBODY left who is still in favor or Barak Obama and his policies? (Besides defense contractors?)

http://news.yahoo.com/us-allow-export-armed-military-drones-204330765.html

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on Sat Mar 7th 2015 at 16:55:56 King

How long until the laser drones are here?

http://news.yahoo.com/laser-weapon-stops-truck-tracks-mile-away-144508504.html

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on Tue Apr 28th 2015 at 02:35:41 King

In the next two years robots will be used to bolster police forces patrolling malls and other public areas.

Dubai Police will be turning into “robo-cops” in the next few years. According to the Chief Information Officer and General Director of the Dubai Police HQ Smart Services Department, the move — that is part of the lead up to Expo 2020 — is aimed at helping the police deal with an ever-increasing populace.”

https://en-maktoob.news.yahoo.com/smart-policing-come-dubai-robo-cops-055522487.html

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on Sun May 10th 2015 at 01:01:55 The incomplete list of children Obama has kille...

[…] On December 14th 2012 in Newtown, Connecticut, a well-to-do white town 100 km north of New York, 20 schoolchildren were gunned down. Within hours President Obama appeared on television: The majorit… […]

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on Fri Sep 22nd 2017 at 17:42:32 ASDASD

I’m going to read this. I’ll be sure to come back. thanks for sharing. and also This article gives the light in which we can observe the reality. this is very nice one and gives indepth information. thanks for this nice article… Drones for kids

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