Jim Crow racism (1870s-1960s) is the sort of racism that was common among White Americans in Jim Crow times. It reached its height in the South in the 1920s with such features as burning crosses, white hoods, lynchings and a liberal use of the n-word.
It is the sort of racism white people have in mind when they say someone is “racist”, when they say, “Racism is dead”. A subtler, less open, less hate-filled colour-blind racism has quietly taken its place since the 1960s.
The main beliefs of Jim Crow racism as summed up by one white Southerner in 1913:
- “Blood will tell.”
- The white race must dominate.
- The Teutonic peoples stand for race purity.
- The negro is inferior and will remain so.
- “This is a white man’s country.”
- No social equality.
- No political equality.
- In matters of civil rights and legal adjustments give the white man, as opposed to the colored man, the benefit of the doubt; and under no circumstances interfere with the prestige of the white man.
- In educational policy let the negro have the crumbs that fall from the white man’s table.
- Let there be such industrial education of the negro as will best fit him to serve the white man.
- Only [white] Southerners understand the negro question.
- Let the [white] South settle the negro question.
- The status of peasantry is all the negro may hope for, if the races are to live together in peace.
- Let the lowest white man count for more than the highest negro.
- The above statements indicate the leadings of Providence.
All utterly respectable stuff: before the 1940s it had the support of not just history and science, but, best of all, religion – as #15 points out. Most white Protestant churches taught that because of the Curse of Ham, God meant for blacks to be at the bottom of society to serve whites. For ever. Whites were merely carrying out God’s will as good Christians.
The fact that blacks rarely rose above the level of servants and field hands proved that they were not capable of much more. Freedom and education only made them worse:
- Black education made them unhappy and unfit for their proper place in society, filling their heads with ideas of holding office or owning property, threatening the peace between the races.
- Black freedom meant they returned to their near-savage, African nature, making them dangerous. As proved by all the arrests of black men listed in the newspaper. Most troubling was the increasing number of white women accusing black men of rape!
Free, educated blacks were unsettling: they did not smile and sing as much as the old slaves did, nor did they act as nicely towards white people.
So for everyone’s sakes, blacks had to be controlled, they had to be kept in their place: by law, by custom and by Klan terror. Otherwise, many whites feared, a race war would break out or, even worse, the white race would be destroyed by race mixing.
See also:
“It is the sort of racism white people have in mind when they say someone is “racist”, when they say, “Racism is dead”. A subtler, less open, less hate-filled colour-blind racism has quietly taken its place since the 1960s.?”
It seems like we’re at a point where the word racism is insufficient when it comes to discussing today’s racial issues. But it’s not like you can draw a clear line between this and that type of racism either.
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American racism today, is finely institutionalised and ‘normalized’. Everytime I think about the animated raisins, ‘Soul Plane’, the chocolate cupcakes commercial, my encounters in my classrooms, with yt staff at my various jobs I feel that racism is just more ‘dressed’, and not as raw/naked as in the Jim and Janet Crow era. I’ve had a few raw Jim Crow moments, so, yes racism remains.
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Yes, it is covert racism and not as overt as it once was, although the election of President Obama has become a lightening rod for the more overt type.
I recognize in the Tea Party and the Republican Party statement #14 Let the lowest white man count for more than the highest negro.
This is how the GOP keeps many poor whites voting against their own interests. Just like in the old days when the planter class kept other whites in line.
I have experienced racism when looking for jobs in NYC I’ve had people enthusiastic about talking to me on the phone become visually deflated upon seeing me in person, I have had my credit card at an expensive store questioned as to if it actually belonged to me, I have been followed in stores, I have been called n*gg*r to my face as well.
Racism is not dead. The laws have changed, but the attitudes of most whites is still negative toward blacks.
It’s most palpable nowadays, as I mentioned, in the political arena now. In the Republican baked tea party, and the right wing racist media. Obama’s election did not make it go away. It has intensified it.
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Hey, Abagond
Can you do a story on Kah Walla? There’s been a lot of buzz about her lately. She is a candidate for the 2011 Cameroonian elections, and she may be Cameroon’s last chance in solving their many problems in the foreseeable future. Both Fru Ndi and Paul Biya are very corrupt
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Abagond,
Jim Crow lasted almost into the seventies.
Medgar Evers was murdered in 1963, then in the summer of 1964, 3 civil rights workers, James Cheney, Michael Schwerner and Andrew Goodman were killed, so were Jimmie Lee Jackson, Rev James Reeb, Viola Liuzzo in 1965, and M.L.King Jr in 1968. I am sure there were more people than I’ve listed here that were murdered fighting against Jim Crow.
Being able to ride anywhere on a bus and eat in the Greyhound station cafeteria wasn’t significant to end Jim Crow. By the end of the 60’s, voting rights were guaranteed and large corporations had their token Negroes, but schools were segregated and living anywhere you wanted was still an issue. Institutional racism was not dead.
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White people definitely fear educated black people. I see evidence of that on a daily basis…
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I read the book “The New Jim Crow” by Michelle Alexander, and I agree that the concept itself hasn’t ended; it’s redesigned in a more covert fashion.
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I have always been puzzled by the intense interest of americans in race. I mean the official need to know what race you are. What is your race? What the effff?? They ask this in official documents. Why they want to know??
I mean the ordinary people. People were asking in US from me who are you. I said I’m a finn. From Finland. They looked at me like they did not believe it because I have brown eyes and in those days my hair was almost black. But what are you? Are you pure finn? Well, yeah. Like, un-pure means what?? Dirty finn??
Yeah, I am a pure finn. My mother is Carelian and my fathers family is from central parts and from capital region. Pure finn, 100% solid, but still a black hair-brown eyed one. That is curious, we always thoughed that you guys are blue eyed blondes, they said to me. And I was like, wtf?? Most of finns are not.
I think interracial realtionships are very important for the future of USA. More mixed people there are, better it will be one day. Who cares what “race” you are? What is your ethnic backround? What does that matter? To whom it is important to know that? Why it is important in official documents?
As long as the concept of race dominates the concept of people it will be a problem. It will be used against those who are of “wrong race”.
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Oh gosh sam, I think I have fallen in love with you… just kidding (kinda). I absolutely agree with you, someone will always be the “wrong” race when race is the most important factor.
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I agree with all of you that today’s jim crow racism is mutated into color-blind racism. Also, it’s still an issue whether people agree with it or not. All one has to look is the media and institutions such as the government to know that we’re far from being a melting pot.
La Reyna
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Free, educated blacks were unsettling: they did not smile and sing as much as the old slaves did, nor did they act as nicely towards white people.
So for everyone’s sakes, blacks had to be controlled
Brilliantly stated, Abagond.
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White people are the most freakishly paranoid and backwards group of people I have ever heard of. It’s truly beyond me how such incredible delusion could take hold of an entire race. Millions of people. It had to be pure delusion and mania for them to be able to excuse themselves for their atrocities against POC and for their bizarre way of thinking.
I’m truly aghast every time I read about things such as these. I’m disgusted and it leaves me shaking with rage. The fact that these people could attack and destroy POC, make their lives miserable and just hate them, kill them, rape them, degrade them, dehumanize them, steal from them, etc just for daring to exist on the white man’s earth.
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white people created the idea of racial hierarchy and the system of racism, they should be the ones to bear the brunt of repairing the damage it has done.
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Sam,
Most Black people in America are mixed race.
The One Drop rule was rigidly enforced from slavery through Jim Crow. Compared to the Scotch- Irish, African features stood out, no matter your color. There were very very few people of Mediterranean origins in the south with the exception of New Orleans, that system there was somewhat different.
A little insight in how far mixed race got folks.
Plessy v. Ferguson
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@hathor: yeah, I know. But still, I wonder what on earth is behind the official interest on ones race. What does it matter? A black american has zillions and trillions more of similarities with white americans culturally, mentally and so worth, than with black africans from, say, Mozambique or Tshad.
The pygmies from central Africa are as alien to black americans as they are for white americans. The masai of east Africa are as foreign to black americans as they are for white americans.
So I wonder who has the interest still today to separate americans by race or ethnic backround? Why it is so important for the state to know are you so called black or italian-irish-german-russian-bohemian-laplander or asian (which I find very funny because a korean guy has nothing to do with bangladeshi guy etc.)?
I know the history, I know the one drop rule, all this, but I still find it amazing that this stupid obsession on race is still forced officially and by the media. Like one black guy I knew in States always said: “I ain’t no fuckin african, I’m a american from the South Side Chicago”. He refused to be anything else than american and he was as black as any one can be.
American culture as we know it is hugely influenced by the blacks from the movies to music to dance to any arts. The language, lingo, sayings and proverbs. Fashion, style, religious services, food, you name it. Present day american culture is saturated by the black influence. Who and what is the force that still refuses to admit this? What is the mechanism that still tries to present black americans as separate entity in that country? That is mind buggling to me.
The best goddamn golfer for the last two decades is a black guy. There are major movie stars who are black. You have black generals, police chiefs, bishops, millionaires and the president who is black!! Who the hell in their right mind still thinks that black americans are not the mainstream, part of the core of that nation? As much as any ethnic group, the black americans are the soul of your nation. And I find it really strange that the same nation is still asking from you: are you black? WTF????
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…White people created the idea of racial hierarchy and the system of racism…
While it is true they helped this along devoted time, money and scientific study (even to this day) perpetuating this as a political and economic way of life. Also benefiting heavily from the privileges it bestowed upon them and anyone else who subscribed to the same philosophy etc, etc, etc,…while all this is obviously true…
I believe a deception and a type of delusion is going on in the minds of white people who actually cling to this as a type of religion or crutch to lean on. Some escape it by becoming more aware and realizing they don’t need it. However, the majority by and large have still to reach that stage.
The real truth of why and who actually created this system is yet to emerge. But when it does a lot of people both Black and white, I predict, are going to be in for a big shock!!!
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Sam,
In the US, ethnicity is still a big deal, even for white Americans. They are the ones who started with the hyphenated American. One reason I believe is that America as a country is relatively young and most have immigrant or slave ancestry. There are probably less than 2 million indigenous to the US.
The government started to focus on race and ethnicity, because they needed to know if the programs that targeted specific groups were effective or the law was being followed. Once race and ethnicity got to be a part of the statistics, every part of government thought it would be useful. It went from employment to quantifying abortions. Even though abortion is legal and there no reason to even know who is having them. Most of these statistics are now used to bash mostly Blacks and to re-enforce racism.
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@hathor: I thoughed so.
“Once race and ethnicity got to be a part of the statistics, every part of government thought it would be useful. It went from employment to quantifying abortions. Even though abortion is legal and there no reason to even know who is having them.”
Maybe it would be a time for a new kind of popular movement in USA, the one that refuses to define ones own race for the use of some. You know, grass roots movement in which every one leaves the race blank in all documents and papers etc. It would be fun to see how the goverment reacts on that kind of non action. And everyone could use the same argument why they don’t fill that spot: I have no idea what race I am.
Or then everyone could just write “human” to the race spot. 😀
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@sam
Actually I disagree just because that kind of amounts to colorblindness.
We need to know whats going on statistically with different races in terms of employment, education, and so on to determine to what extent race is a factor in those things.
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The fight/war for resources is one primary reason for racial and ethnic delineation. The dominant groups, needs to know, what resources, first, are available, what the value should be, and to whom they are going; than, they need to know how to determine the haves, from the have nots. In this country, blacks are on the bottom(symbolic and literal have nots), and have little access to most resources, unless they are government divied out or rappers/athletes.
Who gets the most land, beach front property, golf courses, swimming pools in their backyard/public, the best education, jobs, lives in the best neighborhoods, live in suburbia, gets the office with the corner view, gets to travel about the world freely, who gets Gaza Strip? Once you determine someones ‘race’, you can then delegate there access to goods, resources and habitat through discrimination, Jim Crow, racism. The classic, blacks moving into neighborhoods, and whites moving out, property value decreasing has a purpose.
While I detest the culture wars to be relegated to socialism vs capitalism, much of this discussion, imo, is about who gets what, how much, and who does’nt. Classims does exist, but is compounded with race for black Americans.
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Jasonburns said:
Actually I disagree just because that kind of amounts to colorblindness.
We need to know whats going on statistically with different races in terms of employment, education, and so on to determine to what extent race is a factor in those things.
It is somewhat of a double edged sword. There is a growing segment of the population that refuses to “check” said box. It would be nice if we could all be counted equally regardless of race or ethnic background, but unfortunately that is not the reality. – and the pendulum swings both ways on the ugly scale of prejudice.
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I don’t think it’s possible to statistically measure the impact of race, because with real, living people, it’s never just about the race, but there are many, many other parameters one must take into account (gender, class, age, sexual orientation, nationality, etc etc). It would be difficult, if not impossible, to make such an algorithm to measure the impact of every single of these things and then to take race out of it and see its individual impact.
These sort of things may work for large numbers, but I am not sure how helpful they are when measuring the impact they have on individuals (not even the most individuals).
It’s one of those thing where you could determine the “average” number, but said number doesn’t apply to any individual in particular.
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Well, just my point of view. I have no idea what damage it would do to anybody if the state or any other organ would not know if “John Smith” is white, black, native american, latino, asian or martian.
As long as people will make it important, it will be so. And as long as it is deemed as important, it will be used against those who are considered as “minority” or something else which is considered somehow lower than the average.
If nobody counts how many black families live in a certain area, nobody could say that it is a poor area because people who live there are black (implying that those poor BLACK families are somehow the reason why it is poor). Instead it would be just a poor area.
If nobody keeps up the count how many blacks live in a certain area, maybe the value would not drop? I don’t know. Maybe the racist attitudes behind this devaluation of propety value would not work, because nobody would know if it is indeed a black community or not?
I understand your point, Jason, but still I do not see it that way. Anywhere goverment or any other state apparatus is recording people by their ethnic backround there is racism behind it. If it were not, well, then why categorise people by their race at all?
I understand “colorblindness” it is seen as something of an white intellectual excercise, but what if people would really start to live like that? What if we could see that okay, this guy just looks different than I, instead of seeing him/her as a black person? What if the skin color would be just one of the things that makes us all different? You know, one guy is tall, the other is short, this guy is fat and the other is skinny, that guy is white and this is black, this has blue eyes and this brown etc.
Racial identification is a necessary tool of racism. Without it there can not be racism. Racism needs the clear race indetifications. That is the reason for it. Somebody wants to know your race and for what purpose? To say something about you based on your race, to think something about you based your race, and after that you are no longer you but an example of your race. You have been deleted as an individual and transformed as an example of a race.
Racism sees you not as an individual but as a part of your race and that race is more important than you as an individual. This works both ways. By being indetified as white, you have the white privilidges and possibilities, but also all the implications of whiteness. If you are indetified as black, that brings all the stuff connected to your race by racism. Just because of your skin color.
That can not be right. That is not right. I’ve met people in four continents and individual differences are always bigger than so called racial ones. Indian guy living in Mombasa Kenya is not the same as an indian guy living in London, England. A finn living in Seattle USA is not the same as a finn living in Riihimäki, Finland. A masai living in Amboseli Kenya is not the same as a Steven the black guy living in Minneapolis USA.
That is my take on this and this is the way I have tried to look at all the people I have met in my life. They are all individuals, each and every one of them. Not a race types.
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“If nobody counts how many black families live in a certain area, nobody could say that it is a poor area because people who live there are black (implying that those poor BLACK families are somehow the reason why it is poor). Instead it would be just a poor area.”
But see that’s the thing. It would still BE a poor black neighborhood. And you would still have more upper/middle class white neighborhoods than black ones. (controlling for population sizes demographics etc.)
The race/class divide would still exist but it would just be unofficial/unspoken. You’ve just papered over the problem. Applied a new coat of paint to a crumbling house. You can say race isn’t an issue but all the barriers to black people and the benefits for whites would still exist.
I see what your saying though and I agree in a way. Basically if everyone really WAS color blind than the poor neighborhood WOULDN”T BE all black in the first place.
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@jason: yes, I know it is an hippie shit, but I think it is worthwhile. I just don’t like the boundries and walls that are built between us humans. To me race is one of them. Religions are another. And so on…
I just try to live my life this way and thus far it has worked. Like I said before, I do not pretend to be anything other than a white guy nor I pretend that a black guy is not a black. What I do is this: I pay no more attention to his skin color or mine, than I do in any other physical featrure in humans.
So you have a green hair? Ok, maybe you are punk rocker or just like green hair. I don’t know. Its fine by me. Ok, you are a black woman. Hey, you look really good. Hey, you are a black guy, but I don’t expect you to start singin and dancing and run 100 meters at stop speed or play fantastic basketball. You are just you to me. You are a white guy? Well, you are just Jason to me, and thats great.
You understand? This is just the way I live, my way of dealing with this race crap that is trying to keep us all in our “proper places”.
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Of course sam, I think that there are differences in how we view race on the person to person level and the macro, institutional level.
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Sam,
The history in this country prevents race from being irrelevant, regardless of Jim Crow or government classifications.
There were Jim Crow Laws in the North and most of the West, but there was still segregation. Before fair housing laws, the realtors made sure every white person in the neighborhood knew a Black person was moving in and made a killing on the White fright and flight. Before government started keeping as many statistics by race, racism was kept alive by passing down the bigotry from generation to generation. New Orleans would have been an integrated city in the 19th century, but for outside racist stirring up the bigotry and fears. That city was a melting pot and race was becoming less important.
When people are forced to live a closed existence for three centuries, it takes more than 40 years to shed that identity.
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“When people are forced to live a closed existence for three centuries, it takes more than 40 years to shed that identity.”
I’ve always assumed that to be true, that segregation would create a seperate identity. But then doesn’t that imply that black people all subscribe to that “identity”? That feels racist to me. Also, if there is an identity, is it necessarily something that needs to be shed?
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And how silly of me to overlook just now that the identity thing applies to whites as well. We were and still are just as “closed” as anyone.
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@hator and jason: I been in States few times, actually lived there for a while way back, and experienced some realities with my black friends and native american friends. So I know the problems. It is just so frigging strange all that race thing. Staggering. Incomprehensible I guess is the word.
Like, here we are, a black woman, a white american and finn from the nothern edge of Europe and we are talkin and expressing our ideas and so on. Would this happen if we just happen to meet in USA? Would we even meet??
If not, just because we are different, that would be a bloody shame indeed.
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sam says,
-Well, just my point of view. I have no idea what damage it would do to anybody if the state or any other organ would not know if “John Smith” is white, black, native american, latino, asian or martian.
-As long as people will make it important, it will be so. And as long as it is deemed as important, it will be used against those who are considered as “minority” or something else which is considered somehow lower than the average.
-If nobody counts how many black families live in a certain area, nobody could say that it is a poor area because people who live there are black (implying that those poor BLACK families are somehow the reason why it is poor). Instead it would be just a poor area.
-If nobody keeps up the count how many blacks live in a certain area, maybe the value would not drop? I don’t know. Maybe the racist attitudes behind this devaluation of propety value would not work, because nobody would know if it is indeed a black community or not?
-I understand your point, Jason, but still I do not see it that way. Anywhere goverment or any other state apparatus is recording people by their ethnic backround there is racism behind it. If it were not, well, then why categorise people by their race at all?
-I understand “colorblindness” it is seen as something of an white intellectual excercise, but what if people would really start to live like that? What if we could see that okay, this guy just looks different than I, instead of seeing him/her as a black person? What if the skin color would be just one of the things that makes us all different? You know, one guy is tall, the other is short, this guy is fat and the other is skinny, that guy is white and this is black, this has blue eyes and this brown etc.
-Racial identification is a necessary tool of racism. Without it there can not be racism. Racism needs the clear race indetifications. That is the reason for it. Somebody wants to know your race and for what purpose? To say something about you based on your race, to think something about you based your race, and after that you are no longer you but an example of your race. You have been deleted as an individual and transformed as an example of a race.
-Racism sees you not as an individual but as a part of your race and that race is more important than you as an individual. This works both ways. By being indetified as white, you have the white privilidges and possibilities, but also all the implications of whiteness. If you are indetified as black, that brings all the stuff connected to your race by racism. Just because of your skin color.
-That can not be right. That is not right. I’ve met people in four continents and individual differences are always bigger than so called racial ones. Indian guy living in Mombasa Kenya is not the same as an indian guy living in London, England. A finn living in Seattle USA is not the same as a finn living in Riihimäki, Finland. A masai living in Amboseli Kenya is not the same as a Steven the black guy living in Minneapolis USA.
-That is my take on this and this is the way I have tried to look at all the people I have met in my life. They are all individuals, each and every one of them. Not a race types.
laromana says,
sam, thanks for your EXCELLENT, INSIGHTFUL comments regarding your views on race and American style racism.
I think it’s especially helpful for CERTAIN Americans who are ANTI-BLACK RACISTS to get an outsider’s perspective on racism in America so they can understand that NOT ALL WP AGREE with this brand of racism.
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Interesting. For a long time there was this conception in Europe of America being “the great melting pot” of cultures and nationalities. Only in the last few decades people like me have come to understand that it’s anything but.
Foreign elements/cultures are still feared all across the globe to affect (in a negative way) the predominant culture i.e. race. The same effect is felt across Europe. The “original” peoples are shaking in their boots in the fear of the hordes of alien immigrants. Taking our jobs, women and yadda-yadda…
But yeah, I wholeheartedly agree with sam. Why the hell does race matter? And how do you define one’s race? Especially somewhere like US, where most people are probably somewhat mixed.
Shouldn’t americans think instead that it is exactly because of your MIXED HERITAGE that you’re so progressive and succesful in a global scale? American culture is a MIX OF ALL CULTURES, right?
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@ sam
I’m 100% with you on that one but I think we’ll always run against a wall. At least with the majority in the US.
Although I was born and raised in France I don’t agree with many of the, especially recent, accomplishments in French politics. However, the law I will always defend is the 200 year old ban on recording ethnicity and religion.
I can think of many reasons how ethnic (“racial”) statistics can be misused and beneficial for the majority but very few reasons how they can be beneficial for minorities. Once it’s institutionalised there’s no easy going back. People tend to quickly get used to simplistic categorisation without understanding its complexity. Btw, it has nothing to do with colour blindness. People in France (and most other European countries) know quite well how to differentiate between African, Arab, European, Asian etc and mixtures when they see them. It doesn’t mean though that it has to be put on file. It’s also quite irrelevant when you don’t know the person. It’s close to impossible to extrapolate to someone’s personality, qualities, weaknesses etc through looks alone.
It is well-known that there is discrimination going on in many aspects of life everywhere in the world. You don’t need statistics to know that. Numbers can be rigged, manipulated, misinterpreted. Just look at all those pseudo-scientific publications which try to prove a point solely based on statistical (rigged) figures.
You have to look at it on an individual level. There have to be mechanisms and organisations in place that observe and take care of individual cases of discrimination. Organisations that help each individual with their particular problems.
Even a well-meant attempt to apply US style “racial” profiling in any European country with a high percentage of immigrants or non-European ancestry, France, UK, Netherlands etc, would become a mind-boggling nightmare. Just as an example, the historically most vulnerable, underachieving and least integrated groups in Europe are of Middle Eastern and North African origin. People who would be considered “white” in the USA and most other English speaking countries.
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Never EVER put your race (or religion) on ANY government form.
If they force you, mark “Other” and fill in the blank with something made up.
The government’s keeping records of people’s race is the second of the eight steps of a genocide. It makes genocide both easier and more likely.
How do you think they were able to round up nearly all the Japanese Americans in California during the Second World War? The 1940 government census. They lost everything they could not carry – houses, farms, businesses, etc. They were sent to prison camps – step six of a genocide. If the war had gone badly, they could have all been killed – as some whites were calling for.
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2009/04/16/the-eight-stages-of-genocide/
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2010/05/19/the-japanese-american-internment/
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@abagond: exately my point.
In the book The Phoenix Programme by Douglas Valentine one CIA guy who was inventing that particular programme in 1960’s says that any where a goverment is gathering a vast data base on its own citizen there is Phoenix going on. And look how that ended: 20 – 30 000 civilians killed as suspected “vietnamese communist infastructure”.
Point is: what is the purpose to know the ethnic backround/race of the citizens?
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http://www.vpr.net/episode/50142/#
‘Bi-racial Americans (blk/yt) choosing to ”pass as black.
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@Sam
I agree with you for the most part in terms of how things should be but I feel like seeing race as irrelevant at this point IS a manifestation of white privilege.
I think that going through life with the idea that race doesn’t matter, or not even thinking about it is exactly how we all SHOULD go through life and treat each other. The only problem is that POC are not allowed to do that at present. WP will not let them do that en masse.
It’s easy for me to say “Oh race isn’t important” while I continue to reap the benefits of white privilege.
I think that because of our history in the US, in terms of everyday interaction the reality is that race is going to play a role. It doesn’t have to dominate nor is it always relevant to every little thing but it’s there.
But yeah, If I could wave a magic wand and make everyone actually blind to race I would.
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@jason; I got it. Situation in States is like that now. But maybe one day, you’ll never know…
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“But still, I wonder what on earth is behind the official interest on ones race. What does it matter? A black american has zillions and trillions more of similarities with white americans culturally, mentally and so worth, than with black africans from, say, Mozambique or Tshad.”
Bravo Sam! You are so right…I think most black and white Americans fail to recognize that when they leave the shores of the USA, the rest of world doesn’t see them by their colour, they are view as just “Americans”…
…black, white, asian, if you act, sound, and “are” an American, …no one gets special treatment for being brown, black, or white…
I agree that culturally black and white are similar but the hatred between the two groups of Americans runs so deep, I don’t know if anything will ever change it…
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That’s exactly the point. It’s one of the fundamental problems that needs to be worked on. Having people tick a checkbox is a dummy solution. And it’s a potentially dangerous one, knowing about all the misuse that can be done with personal data.
Apart from that, I always found this question personally patronising when I was in the US. Especially when you’re French, have 3 European (from 3 different cultures and languages) and 1 African grandparent, look like an Arab with a name that is usually associated with Jewish, you really get tired explaining yourself over and over again. If I want to chat about it, that’s my choice only.
Hello! It’s me. I’m here! Do you want to talk to me or to a group member of “Other” / “racial” mixture?
@ jas0nburns
You don’t have to make anybody blind to “race”. Doing so would mean that you’re still not over it and apply just another dummy again.
Mutual respect, getting together, being constructive and listening to each other is the way. Leave everyone what and who they are but bloody talk and interact with each other in a respectful way – and not only when you have to. A lot of people have to drop that “stick to your own” mentality. You don’t have to be blind to respect someone. Just embrace the differences and broaden your own horizon.
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Abagond
Usually in the private sector you can get by without checking that box. If a company is doing work for the FED’s You usually have to check what your employer might think you are, The FEDs require certain hiring practices with their contracts and companies want to be able to prove they are meeting the criteria, don’t check that box, no job.
Not checking that box, doesn’t mean that a company will not use your zip code, land phone exchange(not as useful now) or name in order to discriminate. Easy to do when submitting resumes to a data base and hardly any way to prove it.
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I was just thinking, what if everybody would fill that box with the wrong description. All the white guys would put in black, all the blacks white, asians black, everybody just would put in what ever they happen to put in different times etc. 😀
How long it would take before the racial recording system would go haywire? 😀
– Eehh… Sir, there seems to be a problem here.
– Really? What is it?
– It seems that according to our data you are asian.
– So?
– You just put in that your are black.
– And?
– I see that you are caucasian/white.
– Do you? And how do you see it?
– Well…
– My friend here is white!
– But he is black!
– Check you data, please.
– Eehh… He seems to be chinese according to our information.
– Really?
– Well, he kind a looks like a black person…
– I am white.
– You are??
– And I am black even though I look like white.
– Yeah, and my father is black. Thats why I look like him sometimes.
– Eehh… There seems to be somekind of problem here right now… Could you wait, please, for a moment?
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lol @ sam 😀
– I see that you are caucasian/white.
– Do you? And how do you see it?
– Well…
hahaha
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@femi 😀 thats the point.
– Caucasian? You mean like abhasian or tshetsen?
– Eehh… No.
– But they are from Caucasia!
– Are they white?
– What does that mean?
– Well, blonde, blue eyed…
– Then no.
– Ok.
– But their skin is white and there are some who have blond hair and blue eyes.
– In that case they are white.
– But some are darker than north africans.
– Did you say africans?
– Yes.
– Well, they are not white.
– But you just said so.
– Did I?
– Not for the africans but for the ones who look like that.
– I have to check on that…
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Black People seem to believe The Danes are of Mongolians just like The Finnish. Otherwise why do they eat Finnish Bread as The Danish Cookie? Truth is, even a lot of The Sami People in Norway are identified as in The Mongolian Group. Black People are already hinted to recognize me as The North compared to them for my uneven, and jagged jaw that they still look up to me for a robust face.
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