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interracial relationships

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The Lovings – their Supreme Court case in 1967 overturned laws against interracial marriage in America.

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An interracial relationship (IRR) is a dating or married relationship between people from different races. This post is about the ones in America. It is an overview post – click on links to go deeper into a particular topic.

The numbers:

In 2010, 4.1% of all marriages in America were interracial. The rate was 2.1% for white women, 4.6% for black women and 17.5% for Asian women.

Interracial marriages, from most common to least:

  • 21.3% Asian woman, white man
  • 19.7% other woman, white man
  • 19.7% white woman, other man
  • 15.7% white woman, black man
  • 8.8% white woman, Asian man
  • 6.8% black woman, white man
  • 2.7% other woman, black man
  • 1.6% Asian woman, black man
  • 1.5% Asian woman, other man
  • 1.1% other woman, Asian man
  • 0.7% black woman, other man
  • 0.4% black woman, Asian man

Notes:

  • Hispanic – not a race.
  • Asian – everyone from Pakistan to Japan, from Mongolia to Papua New Guinea is one “race”.
  • other – presumably Native Americans, mixed-race people, etc.

Myths:

  1. “I am not racist. My girlfriend is black.” Right, and I am not sexist because my wife is a woman.
  2. “Mixed-race marriages will help end racism. In 500 years we will all look Brazilian!” The people in Brazil already look Brazilian – and they are still racist. Racism comes not from differences but how people think about those differences.
  3. “Mixed-race children are better-looking.” Is that because being part white puts them closer to white ideas of beauty?
  4. “All black men secretly want to marry white women.” Supposedly most black men who make over $100,000 a year marry white. That could well be true, but not necessarily because of any secret desire: as Michelle Obama found out, most highly successful blacks live in an all-white world and become cut off from other blacks.

Issues:

  • Beauty is objective – a racist trope that comes up in these discussions. Pushed by Steve Sailer, Satoshi Kanazawa, Heartiste, majorityrights.com and their godfather, J.F. “Caucasian” Blumenbach. It is all beside the point because:
  • Men are dogs – when it comes to race, it is women who do the choosing. Or so says the Columbia speed dating study.
  • sexual selection and race – a study of Chinese American women found that those who grew up in white neighbourhoods tend to marry white while those who grew up in Chinese neighbourhoods tend to marry Chinese.
  • Asian fetish – while there are probably white men with creepy desires for Asian women, the high number of Asian women married to white men mainly comes from the fact that Asian women are far less likely to grow up in same-race neighbourhoods than other women.
  • Red flags:
    • Exoticization – this makes the other person into some kind of racist fantasy, not a flesh-and-blood person. No one is exotic.
    • Internalized racism – this shows up as badmouthing one’s own race, particularly the opposite sex. Examples:
      • BWE Movement – thinks that black men are DBR (Damaged Beyond Repair), that the answer is to marry white men.
      • Tommy Sotomayor – the black male counterpart to BWE.
  • mixed-race identity – what the children of these unions will have to deal with at some point.

See also:

2,059 Responses

  1. Abagond, yet another post on this subject?

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  2. I love how smooth this post is. Abagond you have really are masterful with the blog game.

    Very concise & to the point.

    —————–

    I am a black male who loves to date black, white, Latina & mixed Asian women.

    When I become more cultured, I will see the beauty in many women of color.

    But my dating preferences are not a political statement.

    Good Day

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  3. Abagond,
    as much as I learn from your posts, in your words I sense a disregard for “interracial marriages” (where I might be wrong).
    Frankly: could it be that there is no such thing as “race”? That race is a social construct, especially within the US?
    That there are people who love each other, who happen to be of different skin tone and physical appearance?

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  4. ROFL!!!

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  5. I hope all this back in forth on the subject in different threads have not driven you to write about the subject.

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  6. I will make my response here as this is the proper thread for it.

    @ Asplund

    By logic you mean reading minds or inferring something based on little or no evidence?

    The definition of bigotry is the attitudes, behaviour, or way of thinking of a bigot; prejudice; intolerance according to http://www.thefreedictionary.com/bigotry

    So now you are making up definitions. LOL

    “Sure someone who opposes interracial relationships can’t prevent someone from marrying. Someone opposed to integration can’t keep a black child out of public school. That’s because we have laws to back that up.”—What does any of that have to do with your premise? More deflection instead of sticking to the main points at hand. Which proves you can’t prove what you claim. I asked you to prove two statements you made (even though you made several that require proof) and you can not do that. Is it so hard for you to admit defeat?

    “But hey, if the Supreme Court decision isn’t enough for you, then nothing is going to be”–The court case would be enough if it had anything to do with your premise, but in this case you need to site research indicating that the majority or all people opposed to interracial marriages are bigots. You also need research showing that 99% of people applaud by it. Just prove two things. That is it.

    “Most people, and the vast majority of educated people in the establishment, will see you as a bigot.”—You need to provide proof to this claim.

    If you can’t then you lose and need to go sit in the loser corner.

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  7. Great topic. I oppose interracial relationships between Black people and White people. However I don’t oppose any other interracial pairings besides Blacks and Whites.

    For starters, White people are our enemies. It doesn’t make sense to date someone who is your enemy. And most White Americans are very racist and teach their children not to date or marry Black people. As a Black female, I sure wouldn’t want to date anyone who hates me and nor should any other Black person.

    Blacks dating Whites are supporting White love because it is White love. White people get very uncomfortable when we date and marry each other. It appeases them when we date them because it proves to them that they are the most attractive and wanted people on earth. And you are supporting the notion that we should have a mixed race utopia where everyone is mixed race with brown skin and where racism doesn’t exist. It doesn’t seem like a bad idea but racism will not go away because I already see a resurgence of colorism in our communities. Dating Whites is White love and supporting their false belief in multiculturalism.

    And I am not opposed to Black people dating Hispanic or other minority groups because they aren’t as blatantly as opposed to us as Whites are. Also Hispanic culture is pretty similar to our culture too. And as an Afro Caribbean woman, I can relate to Caribbean Hispanics especially Afro Latinos

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  8. supposedly i have a new baby on the way, if it lives, etc. and is mine of course, it shall be half all black and half all white i believe i will tell him or her you are both black and white

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  9. *sigh*

    People of other races choose not to date out their race and other people choose to do just that.

    Interesting how you focused on the ‘white male response.’

    Abagond has an issue with white men and black women getting together.

    Too obvious to deny…

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  10. Sharina-

    It’s become clear that elementary reasoning and reading comprehension are not your strong suit.

    Let me prove what I said, indisputably (to those willing to listen):

    “By logic you mean reading minds or inferring something based on little or no evidence?

    The definition of bigotry is the attitudes, behaviour, or way of thinking of a bigot; prejudice; intolerance according to http://www.thefreedictionary.com/bigotry

    So now you are making up definitions. LOL”

    No- If you had even the most basic logic at your disposal you’d see that that very definition- intolerance, is exactly what I’m talking about. Bigots lack tolerance of others. Bigots show intolerance. Bigots are intolerant of interracial marriages. Jesus Christ it’s that fucking simple. Goddamn.

    “—What does any of that have to do with your premise?”

    It proves that it is completely unnecessary to know every thought and life experience a bigot has had to call someone a bigot. Holding a bigoted position is in itself justification for calling someone a bigot.

    “More deflection instead of sticking to the main points at hand. Which proves you can’t prove what you claim. I asked you to prove two statements you made (even though you made several that require proof) and you can not do that. Is it so hard for you to admit defeat?”

    Sharina I don’t get what I haven’t demonstrated? A. Discriminating against someone based on race is bigoted behavior. B. Intolerance of interracial marriage is discrimination because you are against a person loving another person based on race/ethnicity/religion, etc. therefore those opposed to interracial relationships are bigots.

    “The court case would be enough if it had anything to do with your premise, but in this case you need to site research indicating that the majority or all people opposed to interracial marriages are bigots.”

    Sharina the fact that the supreme court made the ruling it did, the fact that not one state in the union has been able to maintain its laws against irr is proof that the vast majority of people, or at least the vast majority of those with power, oppose prohibiting interracial relationships. Jesus.

    ““Most people, and the vast majority of educated people in the establishment, will see you as a bigot.”—You need to provide proof to this claim.””

    Sharina, you completely (and intentionally) ignored my proof of this concept. I showed you the one example of a public figure who opposed irr- the judge in Louisiana, and you utterly refused to comprehend it. The fact that that public figure was publicly crucified for opposing irr is proof of my claim.

    “If you can’t then you lose and need to go sit in the loser corner.”

    If this discussion is going to go anywhere, you have to have advanced past the first grade.

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  11. Black men are the most willing to date out a study showed out of all race men,wonder why?
    Is it they don’t see their women as worthy or is it because they are desperate to be accepted,
    I don’t believe the bull that they are particularly attracted to a certain type race women because if you put those cooning black men on an all black island they will soon be overcome with lust.
    Also there are some BM that have dated other race women that were average chosen over goodlooking BW-which shows that its not based on a physical presence,however these bm then say it is based on certain qualities-however that wouldn’t make sense either since no quality is exclusive to just one race.
    the truth is BM want to be accepted,they feel inferior and are color struck basically as long as the women is white mostly,they feel some sort of acclaim and recognition…its very sad but true.

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  12. Kudos for that link TrojanPam, it brought me to check out other books by Umoja. Great, insightful books!

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  13. white males marry Asian women and “other” women more than black women It seems white men and women marry more “other” than black so..

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  14. “Black men are the most willing to date out a study showed out of all race men,wonder why?”

    Idk but I do notice a lot of the ones that do they come from a certain background…

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  15. The question, though, is about the numbers- the first part you listed. How can there be any accurate ‘statistics’ when so many people were categorized or assumed to be a specific race, while in fact they were mixed-race?

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  16. @V8Driver

    I don’t care what you will identify your mixed race baby but I don’t believe that I, as a Black woman, should date White men. That is my belief. However as a young woman, I don’t plan on waiting on Black men for very long either.

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  17. ^ that is true I see a lot of biracial ppl saying they are black or whatever so it does mess up the numbers a bit.

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  18. also a lot of biracial males date/ marry white women and say they are black so that could account for some of it as well. The only way we’d know is if they did a study showing what percent of biracials put their race as black.

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  19. “Mixed-race children are better-looking.” Is that because being part white puts them closer to white ideas of beauty?

    One of my Asian aunts is married to a white man. She has this bizarre habit of describing half white/half Asian children as “better looking” compared to full Asian children. She even said that Obama and other half black/half white people are better looking than full black people. Her husband told me once to not marry a black woman. He said that half black/half Asian children were “ugly”.

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  20. Far as i am concerned, a white man or woman, messaging or emailing a black man or woman on a dating site, means absolutely nothing!

    So what, they contact us in a impersonal way on the down low and always want to meet us at a hotel, when they happen to be on a “business trip”

    We as black people are simply, play toys for white people.

    when they are not stepping on our neck in some way shape or form, they are having sex with us.

    I feel my black women are more vulnerable to this from white men, than black men are from white women, being most black men ( not all because i am not one of them ) with screw any female they can.

    Black women, being women, want more than just sex. They want marriage and commitment, this is what white men use to lure the black woman.

    I think most black women, look at how white men, marry and take care of their white women and think the white man, will extend this to her, this is where she is so wrong, its a fallacy that a lot of black women, find out after the fact.

    I also feel, that most black women, compare white men to black men and use a white man as a measuring tool and say, “white men are more of a catch, then black men, being white men are more educated, earn more money and came from money” so i will date only white men. That is very unfair in my opinion, simply because of the white supremacist dynamic, that exists.

    Black women, should not hold up a white man and say, look at the white man, why can’t black men be more like them in terms of education,money,status ect… I think i need not, explain why this is so wrong in so many ways.

    They look at the house with the white Pickett fence, the two cars, the dog and cat and say, i want that for me. which is fine for a black woman or any woman to want for that matter.

    The fact that white men, will marry a white woman, have white children, get a divorce and then all of a sudden, want a black woman?? That’s suspect to me…

    I mean, i can see if a white woman or white man, actually had children with a black person, they get a little lead way and i wouldn’t question their motives as much but most have white children, so there is no way to tell, if they have a hidden, agenda.

    White men, know the racism that black people and other people of color, go through, do you think for a new york minute, that he would want that for any of his children? Hell to the no!!

    He wants white children, not black children that will be cursed under, white supremacy!

    So white men dangle promises of marriage, children and being taken care of in from of black women.

    Most black women, ( Not all but most ) fall for the bait, then when the black women, puts pressure on the white man after they’ve been dating for a year or more, the white man bails on the black woman!

    Then guess what happens? The next time that black woman sees him, he’s with a white woman! Then the black woman, realizes that she was just a negro bed wench, all along.

    Again, i am not saying all black women but most of them, fall for the kooliad and think white men are so much more, moral than black men.

    When You normally see older white men and women, that are over weight, look old and unattractive and therefore, not caring too much about what society thinks about them, being with a black person.

    When they were younger, they wouldn’t have been caught dead with a black person but in old age, they don’t have as many options as they did in their youth and their own white people don’t want them anymore.

    The black people are normally, one to two times, younger than they are.

    I rarely see a young, attractive, rich white male or woman, with a black person, being they are at a stage in their life, where being scene with a black person, will hurt their stature and job prospects .

    So when i tell you, when it comes to white people, dating black people, there is ALWAYS an agenda, either way you slice it and dice it.

    I think most of the anger and hostility, comes from this, when black men get angry, when seeing a black woman with a white man.

    Just because a very small percentage of white men, will marry and have children with a black woman, doesn’t mean white men, love black women.

    These interracial websites, do give black women, false hopes in thinking, white men want them in a real way , not just a fantasy or experiment. I believe that the majority of white men that seek black women on interracial sites and in society, look at black women in this way.

    The very small percent of white men that marry black women, is an exception and not the rule. The powers that be, want black people to think, we are getting more equal, simply because we are having sex with them.

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  21. maxine,

    I’m a black woman but to be honest a lot of black women do the same thing. There are even parts of MD where you will see lots of black women/white male couples and even on the net you will find many books, websites and videos online where black WOMEN dog out black men, and say false bull like how white men supposedly accept black women more, are more open to dark skin & natural hair and the like.

    Plenty of black women also have half-white kids but you don’t see black men complaining.

    It may be weird to us when we go to a public place and see a black male or two all over or pursuing white women and make us feel weird because of our history as blacks and how we’ve been devalued and our looks devalued under white supremacy, but plenty of black women do it too. I think because we are the opposite gender we don’t notice it. Luckily though, black men are not as vocal at fighting black women/other race couples. I think it makes us feel more sensitive because of how whites have dogged black looks and black beauty for so long.

    In addition maxine, black men have it a bit worse than us in terms of the fact that we are held down and the MAN is supposed to be able to take care of their household, which society does not want black men to be able to do.

    More importantly, you may not see it if you are not a black male, but white men (and often women) are “uncomfortable” about black men desiring black women and black people dating each other. I and many other black women whom have paid attention have noted how white men often subtly tell black men that they are uncomfortable with them finding black women attractive.

    Another factor is the fact that whites constantly put down blacks and as men, black men have an EGO. I notice when with white women, some black men act “different”, will act as if they are a white male. When men are constantly told they will be seen as a threat if they are head of their household, denied jobs to be able to care for a family, told to shun their own race of women and the like they will try to ‘escape’ this by going to other races of women.

    I think such couples like Kanye and Kim Kardashian ( sorry I like the Kardashians) and others are more genuine and there are genuine IR couples. I though don’t understand coupling with whites, as I’ve seen even whites in IR act out white supremacy and racism, something I don’t want to deal with in my home life.

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  22. ^ that is crazy he is wrong will demps and amerie are beautiful both Korean and black. rofl Obama lol I;m sorry but he not that attractive to me, maybe to white ppl. full Asian children are beautiful wtf are they talking about.

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  23. sondis,

    There are some White men who genuinely either like black women or genuinely fell for one. They are rare though but they are out there. Just like there are white men and women who support civil rights laws, equal opportunity for blacks, affirmative action and the like. They are out there but a small minority. I think 30% of white American men voted for Obama. So it’s a small minority but they are out there.

    I think we all need to be suspect in terms of who we date and allow into our lives.

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  24. oh lord I know kim kardashian and kanye did not just get put into the same sentence as the word genuine couple.

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  25. I have said my peace on the subject more than I care to count, so I will just sit this one out.

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  26. Alicia:

    “There are some White men who genuinely either like black women or genuinely fell for one. They are rare though but they are out there. Just like there are white men and women who support civil rights laws, equal opportunity for blacks, affirmative action and the like. They are out there but a small minority. I think 30% of white American men voted for Obama. So it’s a small minority but they are out there.”

    I am aware, that there are a very “small” % of white men, that will marry and have children with a black woman, however far and in between. The fact that there are some and not many, wasn’t the point of my comment.

    The point was that, the MAJORITY of white men, do not look at black women in any, serious capacity and only as exotic play things to experiment with and throw in the trash, when their done and marry a white women. ( this is normally done is college, high school doesn’t even count, whatsoever. )

    “Just like there are white men and women who support civil rights laws, equal opportunity for blacks, affirmative action and the like. They are out there but a small minority. I think 30% of white American men voted for Obama. So it’s a small minority but they are out there.”

    This statement is misleading being, voting for a black president, being for affirmative action, civil rights laws and equal opportunity for black people, has nothing to do with a white man, looking at a black woman as someone to marry, have children and treat as good or better than his white women.

    This statement is the same as saying, just because a white man, has had sex with a black woman before or was in a relationship with one or even married to a black woman, isn’t racist. So just because, 30% of white people, voted for President Obama, doesn’t mean white people will look at a black person in any serious way, other than a sexual exploit.

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  27. @mstoogood4yall,

    I think the Kardashian family is black friendly. I like them of what I’ve watched. I don’t see anything wrong with Kanye and Kim. Heck, isn’t Khloe’s best friend also a black woman. I think this family genuinely like blacks.

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  28. why comment caught in moderation? edited and still in moderation. -_-

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  29. Its a conspiracy, i tell you…. @ >: o O ) >

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  30. Ahh, there we go. ^_^

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  31. idk or care if khloe friend is a black woman, . Miley cyrus has black friends apparently too does that stop her from objectifying them and jacking their culture no.

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  32. ^^

    I hate those kind of Whites who act like they are down with us but deep down, they hold racist views about Blacks. They are more dangerous than the openly racist Whites who tell everyone that they hate Blacks and other minorities. Either way, Whites aren’t to be trusted.

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  33. @sondis,

    I and most adult black women know this. Isn’t that what I just said😛
    But you are speaking to the choir because most will have to live and learn in terms of the younger ones. Whom I feel most for are those young black women (and men) whom are in predominately white areas and only can find white attractive or are surrounded by whites. When I was younger, I was being raised in a mostly white area. to be honest at that time, I had white friends and most of the people my age were not showing any racism towards me. I do recall though that young white males would things which would always exclude me like play body guard or whatever game it was called and I would be instantly ignored. Also, when discussing girls, right in front of me i would always be ignored as if white males grow up thinking it’s not right or normal for them to be attracted to black girls.

    Again most of my very early youth was mostly racism free so I’m just remembering this recently. We have also discussed on this board and on others how white men (also white women and hispanic women when they are white supremacist/caste minded) act to marginalize black women and try very very hard to convince us that no one wants us, that we are unnattractive and the like.

    So many of us already know, however like I said. it’s easier to relate to dating other races like hispanics, asians, indians and others, however there are indeed open-minded Whites as well.

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  34. @mstoogood4yall

    I get where you are coming from but I have watched a lot of their shows and interviews. They even believe OJ was innocent, something many whites do not. I think Kim and the others are Black friendly and dating black are doing it genuinely ( genuinely open minded and genuinely find black men and women attractive)

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  35. I have been interracially married to a society-identified white man (who is by birth Italian-American) for 32 years. We have two grown sons. I went where I was loved, as did he. Has it been easy? Absolutely not — on either side. Even until today, I wonder will he EVER understand exactly all our marriage has, and continues to entail — but he knows me, and I him, and we’ve worked hard at this union.

    I reject the premise that I have somehow diluted the Black race. Having been born during Jim Crow in the Deep South, two years and two months after Brown v. Board, I am, as Randall Robinson describes himself, “obsessively Black” and make no apologies to anyone for that. I never saw a need to either alter or hide that fact when I met him, nor during this more than a quarter century dance in which we remain involved. At times he still works me, and I him — but we’re still here. Because we love each other, we continue to try and persevere though I’ve emphatically announced it over on more than one occasion.

    I remember a comment I made a while ago to Dave on another post here that was strongly supported by my Sisters — until I said I was interracially married. It lost all depth and common sense for one Sister in particular after that, which not only saddened me deeply, but pissed me the hell off because the devaluation came, not for what I said, but for the person to whom I was married!

    @Jason…“Frankly: could it be that there is no such thing as “race”? That race is a social construct, especially within the US?”

    Yes and yes. However, with the majority of us having lived under that construct since this country’s founding — for the entire benefit of the White Supremacist Capitalist Patriarchy, don’t expect it to just go away cuz you want it to — it won’t. Just sayin’

    @Aden..“Dating Whites is White love and supporting their false belief in multiculturalism.”

    I beg to differ my young Sister — it is merely love, and they, of all people believe less in multiculturalism than most.

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  36. I remember seeing a documentary on the Lovings on PBS, it was kind of sad the way the law hunted these people down like common criminals. Well back then I guess their marriage made them criminals. I remember the gestapo type bust in the door while they were in bed in their home. That was sad to me. It is no longer my desire to judge and police who people date and marry and choose for domestic partners. It’s just none of my business, it’s not my place to judge and police . It has nothing to do with me.

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  37. Peanut, you know that’s bull right, but based on the “stats” I thought that’s what it would be about. I have dated Latino and Indian and know many black women- most whom are coupled up or married with fellow black men, latino, asians or others. Don’t believe the hype.

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  38. Good summary of the facts on this topic. I am often amazed by your devotion to finding and spreading knowledge. I wish you would write a book containing all of your conclusions on race, ethnicity, culture, history, language, technology, etc. I doubt I’m the only one who would buy it. You already have over twelve hundred readers – hundreds gained even since I first discovered your blog in January!

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  39. on Fri 11 Oct 2013 at 01:21:16 King of Trouble

    Live in a society people will judge from the way you talk, walk, and hang out. I guess it depends on how much I care about someone else’s opinion about me. Which as the saying goes…

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  40. @Paige…I second that emotion!! Whenever Abagond writes that book, I’ll surely buy them in bulk for my Saturday school I’m planning on setting up when I move back to SC this year!

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  41. @Legion

    The way the 60′s are laid out by the average period piece by Hollywood is such garbage. How many Americans in 100 know who the Lovings are? By contrast, how many in 100 know what Woodstock was? Rights versus a music fest

    But the way IRR is laid out in 2010s Hollywood is pretty much garbage too. In fact, it still seems to be quite taboo. We have a president whose extended family is very multiracial, but it somehow is not allowed to depict that in movies or TV.

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  42. @King…“Which as the saying goes…”

    Yeah, like assholes, everybody has one. However, there is a certain extent to which I truly care about my people and their opinions (given the fact few, to no one else outside our culture does). I’d love folk to at least get to know and engage me before they paint me with their uninformed brushes. Look, we’re not all going to get along, but let’s NOT get along based on truth/real shit — not some fantasized version of who I’m supposed to be.

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  43. Alicia:

    I’m a black woman but to be honest a lot of black women do the same thing. There are even parts of MD where you will see lots of black women/white male couples and even on the net you will find many books, websites and videos online where black WOMEN dog out black men, and say false bull like how white men supposedly accept black women more, are more open to dark skin & natural hair and the like.

    Plenty of black women also have half-white kids but you don’t see black men complaining.

    It may be weird to us when we go to a public place and see a black male or two all over or pursuing white women and make us feel weird because of our history as blacks and how we’ve been devalued and our looks devalued under white supremacy, but plenty of black women do it too. I think because we are the opposite gender we don’t notice it. Luckily though, black men are not as vocal at fighting black women/other race couples. I think it makes us feel more sensitive because of how whites have dogged black looks and black beauty for so long.

    In addition maxine, black men have it a bit worse than us in terms of the fact that we are held down and the MAN is supposed to be able to take care of their household, which society does not want black men to be able to do.”

    I agree with this statement, 110% Black women are white struck, just like black men, they are not exempt from white supremacy. Its just over looked, because there aren’t many black women in the public eye like black athletes, movie stars and Music artists.

    I’ve looked through a interracial website, just to get a census of just how many black women are looking for white men, i was astounded by the 1000’s of thousands of black women that were looking for a white man.

    The few that are in the spot light are, halle berry, that was married to a white man and have a baby with him and Serena and Venus Williams, both are in relationships with white men!

    Like


  44. @Kiwi

    One of my Asian aunts is married to a white man. She has this bizarre habit of describing half white/half Asian children as “better looking” compared to full Asian children. She even said that Obama and other half black/half white people are better looking than full black people.

    I think even white woman who marry interracially will say that. They want to think their kids are better looking than non-white kids without a white parent.

    Her husband told me once to not marry a black woman. He said that half black/half Asian children were “ugly”.

    But, at least you know that is not true. Some of the most handsomest men and beautiful women are of Black / Asian descent.

    It is rather tasteless for a white man married to an Asian to think, not to mention spurt off the mouth about how Asian/white kids are “beautiful” and Asian/black kids are “ugly”. It sounds like he and your Aunt deserve each other. But I worry about the messages they teach to their kids. I remember I always wished that there was some counselling service for interracial kids growing up in a household with racist parents.

    Like


  45. Peanut:

    I didn’t write, what you quoted me as writing. That was Alica in response to Maxine!

    “Alicia

    maxine,

    I’m a black woman but to be honest a lot of black women do the same thing. There are even parts of MD where you will see lots of black women/white male couples and even on the net you will find many books, websites and videos online where black WOMEN dog out black men, and say false bull like how white men supposedly accept black women more, are more open to dark skin & natural hair and the like.

    Plenty of black women also have half-white kids but you don’t see black men complaining.”

    Please read thoroughly to see whom, said what, before jumping down people’s throat with hostility.

    Like


  46. @Peanut,

    How is it funny? At that time isn’t it true that black men/white women pairings were seen in a worse light and often could be met with violence-although some black men and white women were dating? It’s not surprising at all then that a black woman/white male couple would be the ones to cause the change, rather than black men/white woman.

    —————–

    Re:
    black woman legalized interracial marriage for everyone else…funny isn’t it.

    Like


  47. @Peanut

    Many men want and like Black women, trust me. Many non Black men excluding White males just feel that we don’t like them because women like you idolize and put Black men on the pedestal too much. Black men are not perfect nor are we Black women perfect.

    We, Black women need to expand our dating choices to other non White minority men because we can’t wait for Black men forever. Black men don’t even show that they love us anymore. Honestly as a Black female, I see myself with a non White minority male like a Latino male or a male from a various Asian group in the future. I find Latino, Arab, Indian, Middle Eastern men very attractive, romantic and many of them have been very nice to me too, moreso than Black men.

    I am not completely giving up on Black men. I love my Black males but I can’t wait on them for too long. Thus I expanded my dating choices to other non White men of color.

    However I will never date or consider dating a White man ever. White men are not my type of men.

    I hope I didn’t offend you.

    Like


  48. @Peanut
    I don’t exactly recall, it could have been guardian or something like that. Where I went to school when young on the play areas they played a lot of war games, forts, etc. What I remember is that when talking as males to females in ‘that way’ even though it may have been only me and one other white female, I would be totally excluded. I recall sometimes while playing, now that I think back, that when we would all be in a group, that it was white males who would often exclude me as if they felt it was wrong for them to even show any affection to me because I was black. now that I think back it’s weird, because even among non-black Latinos, Asians, Indians and others I have never dealt with that dynamic.

    I do recall though that my white female friends ( well a few) were open to dating black males because I had one black male friend who began dating one of my white female friends. There was one black female/white male couple in the area as I got older but I now recall that dynamic when I was around whites when young.

    After that, I left to go to a mostly black school where of course, we black girls ( well I’m a woman now) got a lot of love! later in high school which was black and hispanic, the non-dominicans (whom are ironically mostly black or mulatto) were quite open-minded.

    It’s just something I’ve recently recalled from my youth when around young white boys, although white females are racist, it was white males by and large who acted like black girls were a no-go for them even for any affection. I recall many were JERKS ( just like in my adult experience as well), always looking to nitpick and criticize black girls. Kinda like that photo of the white boys attacking the young black girl who was trying to integrate that school, I would say that sums up how white men often are with black women, but things are changing and it’s not all over.

    ——————–
    Re:
    @ alicia,

    “I do recall though that young white males would things which would always exclude me like play body guard or whatever game it was called and I would be instantly ignored. Also, when discussing girls, right in front of me i would always be ignored as if white males grow up thinking it’s not right or normal for them to be attracted to black girls”

    if you don’t mind my asking, what was body guard?

    Like


  49. @Adeen..“We, Black women need to expand our dating choices to other non White minority men because we can’t wait for Black men forever.”

    No, we Black women need to love ourselves first and foremost, before we date/marry ANY MEN.

    Like


  50. @Peanut

    I agree with that because if you’re a black woman and open to white men, be prepared for a lot of hurt, rejection and possible abuse. It was noted when I was in college that the black female students who would throw themselves on black men, would look silly because they were often being ignored or rejected subtly by white males. most are racists and those that are not, well 95% I’ve met were hateful or hate issues that have to do with them growing up in a white supremacist/anti-black world. I say go for Latinos whom come in any race and tend to be much more open-minded in terms of dating and marrying than White men. White men also have something against Black women where they think we should feel low and when we don’t will put alot of energy into trying to make us feel low and unnattractive which I feel is dangerous. I wouldn’t risk it.

    ————————————–
    Re:

    Peanut

    with that being said, I think Black women should avoid white men and go for other men of color because most white men don’t even see Black women as real women any way…they see us as an oddity…as something below a woman…and really both white men AND Black men treat black women like last resort p*ssy to be honest…i’m sick of it. everyone thinks that black women will always be around to step on and screw around, we’ll see about that…

    Like


  51. Need to edit above: It should read:

    ” It was noted when I was in college that the black female students who would throw themselves on WHITE men, would look silly because they were often being ignored or rejected subtly by white males. “

    Like


  52. Alicia:

    “I agree with that because if you’re a black woman and open to white men, be prepared for a lot of hurt, rejection and possible abuse. It was noted when I was in college that the black female students who would throw themselves on black men, would look silly because they were often being ignored or rejected subtly by white males. most are racists and those that are not, well 95% I’ve met were hateful or hate issues that have to do with them growing up in a white supremacist/anti-black world. I say go for Latinos whom come in any race and tend to be much more open-minded in terms of dating and marrying than White men. White men also have something against Black women where they think we should feel low and when we don’t will put a lot of energy into trying to make us feel low and unattractive which I feel is dangerous. I wouldn’t risk it.”

    Amen, sista! ^_^

    Like


  53. Alicia:

    I agree with this statement as well!!

    ” It was noted when I was in college that the black female students who would throw themselves on WHITE men, would look silly because they were often being ignored or rejected subtly by white males. “

    Please allow me to piggy back onto your statement. The majority of white men, won’t reject these black women, that throw themselves on white men, because at the end of the day, white men are men and they won’t turn down sex, specially with a group of women, who they, ( white men ) regard as “easy” and sex can’t get enough of sex.

    The thing that needs to be pointed out is this…The black women that throw themselves at white men, do it because they “think” or “Hope” that white men will look at them as a woman and not just a black woman and treat them as such. This is the big mistake that black women make, thinking that white men will treat them, how they treat their white women.

    This is how black women, end up being a Negro bed wench for white men, that deceive them by leading them on into thinking, they will or would have children with them and marry them.

    So in the end, i think black women are not going into dating or having sex with white men in the same way, that white men are, when they are having sex with black women.

    The majority of white men, have no intentions of marrying, having children with or may not even want to be in a long term, long lasting relationship with a black woman, just long enough to satisfy their curiosity and fetishes they have for black women’s flesh.

    Like


  54. Peanut:

    men of all races SUCK! they just suck. Abagond is the only Black men i’ve ever known who says he prefers black women openly…and even he doesn’t put black women at the top of his list all of the time, but it’s not just black men…I’ve realized that men in general just suck.

    Well, at least now i know that you’re nothing more than a mad black woman, that’s just bitter and hate men. so i won’t bother taking anything you say, seriously any longer.

    I might add, i have said several times in all my posts on this blog, that i prefer black women over any other race of women. I find it odd,that you only found, abagond, the only black man to ever made such a claim. On top of being a mad black woman, that’s bitter, because you’ve been hurt, you’re also an serious ass kisser and brown nosier of abagond.

    Like


  55. somebody needs a hug

    Like


  56. mstoogood4yall:

    “somebody needs a hug”

    LMAO! yanno?

    Like


  57. wow, let me get off here before something pops off.

    Like


  58. @sondis:

    I discuss both genders – black men and black women. Why do you focus on black women specifically? I think that applies to black men/white women as well. Most white women are racists and often get black men into trouble ( I have one friend whose brother had to leave the college he attended because a white female he was talking to in a dorm room lied and said he tried to attack and rape her). Also, let’s discuss black male celebrities and white women whom become media darlings only to try to say to the world that black women are unwanted. You as a black male and I’m sure most black men see that the media always shows even unknown black male celebs with white women but the vast majority of black male celebrities and athletes whom have wives and g/f’s that are not black never get much media attention. We all know why.

    Like


  59. “Alicia

    I discuss both genders – black men and black women. Why do you focus on black women specifically? I think that applies to black men/white women as well. Most white women are racists and often get black men into trouble ( I have one friend whose brother had to leave the college he attended because a white female he was talking to in a dorm room lied and said he tried to attack and rape her). Also, let’s discuss black male celebrities and white women whom become media darlings only to try to say to the world that black women are unwanted. You as a black male and I’m sure most black men see that the media always shows even unknown black male celebs with white women but the vast majority of black male celebrities and athletes whom have wives and g/f’s that are not black never get much media attention. We all know why.”

    I was speaking about black women, because that’s what you were speaking about.

    “Alicia

    maxine,

    I’m a black woman but to be honest a lot of black women do the same thing. There are even parts of MD where you will see lots of black women/white male couples and even on the net you will find many books, websites and videos online where black WOMEN dog out black men, and say false bull like how white men supposedly accept black women more, are more open to dark skin & natural hair and the like.

    Plenty of black women also have half-white kids but you don’t see black men complaining.

    It may be weird to us when we go to a public place and see a black male or two all over or pursuing white women and make us feel weird because of our history as blacks and how we’ve been devalued and our looks devalued under white supremacy, but plenty of black women do it too. I think because we are the opposite gender we don’t notice it. Luckily though, black men are not as vocal at fighting black women/other race couples. I think it makes us feel more sensitive because of how whites have dogged black looks and black beauty for so long.

    In addition maxine, black men have it a bit worse than us in terms of the fact that we are held down and the MAN is supposed to be able to take care of their household, which society does not want black men to be able to do.”

    This is what you said and what i was, responding too. You responded back and so did i. So there is no agenda to just talk about black women and not black men. if you had mentioned black men, then i would address that. You didn’t during the whole time, you were conversing with me.

    I also agree with what you said of black men, I’ve mentioned black men’s part in dating white women in other posts on this blog, so just because i speak on black women, doesn’t mean its not true of black men, dating with women.

    So please don’t assume or put words in my mouth.

    Like


  60. Some of these comments about “Black men and interracial unions” (mainly with ww) are ahistorical.

    Black men have married/ slept with ww since Africans have been in the new world. There are several mixed raced Black groups in North America that are the direct product of Black men (either enslaved or free) and ww.

    Contrary to popular belief because we are also dissecting historical sexual relations across the colorlines through the narrative lens of #Black men lynched because a ww or wp accused him of rape or #Black men were not allowed to go with ww, we fail to see the BIGGER picture and that included the first known anti-miscegenation laws which were a part of the Black Codes that enforced that a child was the race and status of his or mother, meaning: white women’s “black” children via enslaved Black men were FREE. Miscegenation laws were originally and perhaps have always been designed to keep Black women’s children with white men “non-white” (economically, socially and otherwise). This was because wealth and status (as mentioned earlier) was passed down through the females. Later a shift took place, but that’s a different post for a different day.

    For every Mildred and Richard Loving at the time (Black woman and white man couple) there was a Heidi Klum and Seal Henry couple married and raising children TOGETHER–in the Deep South. One would be an absolute nut case to go with the premise that just because some Black men were lynched because of their perceived sexual threat to white supremacy that ALL of the mixed raced Black babies born were the product of Black women and white men. Absolutely false.

    The point is this: Black men and Black women have faced severe sexual restrictions in North America anytime the “African” population is perceived to be growing “larger” in relation to the white population.

    Like


  61. I never kiss anyone’s ass on this blog, if you mean by always referring to or conversing with mstoogood4yall as ass kissing? I didn’t know this is considered ass kissing.

    You on the other hand, regarding abagond with your statement on how no other black man on this entire blog, has ever said they love black women and prefer them over any other race of women is ass kissing and wrong, being it has been said, several times by me, brotherwolf and other black men on this site.

    Like


  62. “sondis, you kiss mztoogood azz all of the time”

    oh rofl where was I when this happened I mean I don’t have much back there but i’d rather have my toes sucked then have my ass kissed.

    “And i LOVE mstoogood btw, but you kiss people’s azz too!”

    aw don’t we all, but I promise it was washed first.

    Like


  63. Contrary to popular belief because we are also dissecting historical sexual relations across the colorlines through the narrative lens

    Silly me–that should read Abagond, “Contrary to popular belief because we are always dissecting historical sexual relations across the colorlines through the narrative len…”

    Like


  64. I know i am the only person on this blog, to have never kissed anyone’s ass, being i have had plenty of people, come at me for saying some very, controversial things in regards to interracial relationships in the last post on the subject.

    I speak my mind, i am not concerned with being popular like most on here. I have made my agenda clear about why i am here and its not to be popular by any stretch of the imagination.

    Like


  65. ^ bahwah its cool peanut

    Like


  66. Peanut

    calling me a mad black woman was very hurtful, sondis!”

    So now you’re playing the victim?

    “Peanut:

    men of all races SUCK! they just suck. Abagond is the only Black men i’ve ever known who says he prefers black women openly…and even he doesn’t put black women at the top of his list all of the time, but it’s not just black men…I’ve realized that men in general just suck.”

    So you claim that all men “suck”, with the exception of abagon, which you never met and don’t know from a can of paint, only from which the articles he writes. yeah, that makes plenty of sense…

    So by your logic, every black man on this blog is low life, cheating low down and dirty, bastard. ( with the exception of abagond, of coarse )

    Then you have the nerve to say, “calling me a mad black woman was very hurtful”

    What you said was disrespectful to not just me but every black man or men in “general” as you put it, that is reading your statement but i should be concerned about your feelings, solely?

    Like


  67. Opps….my mistake @ : o x ) >

    Like


  68. That one book, that i haven’t read…men are from mars, women are from venus. @ : o l ) >

    Like


  69. I never told you how to feel, Peanut.

    I was just responding to your, offensive comment about men.

    The same way you don’t like Misogyny as a woman, I as a man, doesn’t like misandry.

    Like


  70. I can see yall both hurt sondis hurt he didn’t get mentioned as one of the males that prefers black women, peanut hurt sondis responded by saying she kiss abagond as. I don’t think this is worth going back n forth. u wanna talk about victims i’m the victim here, that’s right I am me. I was about to log off and eat some… then I see my name and the word ass in the same sentence, now I lost my appetite. so now I will go to bed hungry.lol

    Like


  71. “Peanut

    I can VENT if i want to…”

    Not at the expensive of others you can’t! even your precious abagond, would oppose to you, using such language against men on his blog.

    Like


  72. mstoogood4yall:

    “I can see yall both hurt sondis hurt he didn’t get mentioned as one of the males that prefers black women”

    This isn’t correct, mstoogood4yall. I wasn’t “hurt” more than, offended by such, misandry, spewed by Peanut. My objection, had nothing to do with the fact that they left out me and a host of others, that have professed their love for black women and only black women. I just was pointing it out to prove her statement that abagond was the only one to have claimed as such was wrong.

    Let me put it this way…

    if a man, black or white would say the things she was saying about women on this very thread, all women would be up in arms on this blog and abagond would delete that post but because a woman ( peanut ) said the things about men, it was to be accepted and not challenged.

    Imagine if a man would use the excuse, ” I WAS VENTING, I CAN VENT IF I WANT TOO! After saying, ” ALL WOMEN ARE WHORES AND SUCK”

    anyone get the picture?

    Like


  73. sondis

    “Peanut

    I can VENT if i want to…”

    Not at the expense of others you can’t! even your precious abagond, would oppose to you, using such language against men on his blog.

    typo of expense and not “expensive” -_-

    Like


  74. ^ if a man came on here and said all women suck then i’d think hmm then go be with another man then or become a priest. or that he may have an issue with his gf or lack of one and is frustrated. Now I would get upset if someone came on here and said only black women suck.

    Like


  75. mstoogood4yall

    ^ if a man came on here and said all women suck then i’d think hmm then go be with another man then or become a priest. or that he may have an issue with his gf or lack of one and is frustrated

    So i guess, this is the advice, you would give Peanut, being she is the person who said it about men, NOT a man, saying it about women.

    Like


  76. “Legion

    As far as I can see you’re near always the only man who gets upset when the women complain about men. Women’s complaints of men are important to hear.”

    complaints, not insults… can you differentiate between the two? I guess not…

    ALL MEN SUCK is in insult and not a complaint.

    Like


  77. Oh legion u back I missed seeing ur ship.

    Like


  78. wo this one took off

    Like


  79. oooh miss francine and me gonna see each other real soon, she’s cool and college educated and sober, a real good combo for me

    Like


  80. @adeen i aint about tellin you whom to see

    Like


  81. This is a great post. Seems to me that there is alot of knee jerk reactions going on from people who are unable to think critically about the subject. The notion that love is color blind and know’s no racial or cultural boundaries becomes of interracial unions is hilarious. As many have commented some of the most covertly racist people that I know are part of interracial unions.

    Like


  82. @Deb, you said it best, “No, we Black women need to love ourselves first and foremost, before we date/marry ANY MEN.”

    Like


  83. @$0.02…Thanx for that, Sister! That’s the hardest for us to do given the assaults from ALL quarters — but it’s the absolute MOST important. It was a lesson I had to learn early on and over time. And trust me, once I did — all the other BS was totally inconsequential (Peanut, you listenin’??). Let me tell you, I lo-o-oves me some me!! 🙂

    Peace…

    Like


  84. I’ve dated different races, at a time I preferred Asian men (North Asian, not Indian) and I’ve had flings with “Latin Lovers,” I’ve came across White guys who I thought got me. I find Asian women attractive and have even started looking at Latinas. But all my actual relationships have been with Black men (the longest was 3 years, I’m a spring chicken, lol). In high school and after 6 years of dating in my early 20’s, I’m finally in a relationship again, and he’s Black. I hope he is my husband to be cause I hate dating.

    I don’t care the color, height, weight, ethnicity, culture, religion, etc. If a guy doesn’t want you or is just incapable of loving someone or does not know how, dating is torture. I am not not the epitome of high self esteem – hopefully if I have children, they have a mother and father how can express love to them, my parents slacked on that. So to put all your emotion into someone, to depend on someone on yourself worth if you can’t stand yourself is just a snake biting it’s own tale.

    I could care less about waiting for a Black man or a man at all. I just want to have a mutual love, to be in love and have someone who’s going to go to bat for me and make things work. Someone who isn’t trying to push me away or mistreat me. Everyone deserves that.

    Like


  85. typos:
    * WHO can express love to them
    * YOUR self worth
    * snake biting it’s own TAIL.

    Like


  86. @adeen for some reason i can really relate and talk to black women that’s just me

    Like


  87. Sondis/Alicia
    I’m not sure which one wrote but I think it refers back to Alicia

    I somewhat agree however the only time a mixed union between white men/black women really affect a black man is when that bm exclusively dates black women only…most of the time when black men date out ,even if its just sex,they have disassociated any emotional ties they have with black women and so it doesn’t affect them,just like when a black women dates exclusively white men..she isn’t really bothered at all what black men are dating…it only has an impact on bw who solely date bm.

    I personally don’t think Celebs like Kym Kardashian and Kanye West are a good example of a united interracial couple because I think that they got together because Kym Kardashian practically would have ended up with any man that was black,it was said that she went out with a long line of black rappers so while she its clear she has a sexual preference for bm -its clear that any baby mixed would be impossible to create with someone not black and I feel a large amount of non black women really do date bm for the very reason of solely wanting yellow babies with fuzzy hair-a man wants the latest car with the top notch gadgets but a nurturing women wants beautiful kids..
    I know plenty of white women who have mixed kids and end up going back to white men and I don’t feel that most bm who date out,do so for the right reasons-a lot of time they feel pride to have white women on their arm/follow other black men by going with the trend because its popular or seen as ‘fashionable’,do so because they feel white women physically are better looking yet many of these same bm are probably the ones that are dating average looking white women which shows they settle for the women they get so long as she has white skin…it has nothing to do with with who is aesthetically better looking.

    When a white male dates out especially with bw, you find its more genuine,due to the hierarchy system he has nothing to gain by dating black women as she is at the bottom where he is at the top,however when black men who are also at the bottom date anyone above them on the system-it seems they are stepping up-but whatever women who is above them is seen as stepping down when she dates a black man.-showing that white men date bw because their reasoning tends to be more genuine,which probably reflects in the stats that when white men date bw,their union is more successful then when bm date white women.

    Like


  88. I googled “Blasian” and these beautiful people showed up (http://youtu.be/R2C8r4eLIVc)

    Like


  89. @$0.02…“I could care less about waiting for a Black man or a man at all. I just want to have a mutual love, to be in love and have someone who’s going to go to bat for me and make things work. Someone who isn’t trying to push me away or mistreat me. Everyone deserves that.”

    Sister, your two cents is worth a million damned bucks! Thanx for sharing…

    For all my beautiful Sisters here — this is all we REALLY need to be waiting for!!: (http://youtu.be/wEFxQpdjuFw)

    {Abagond, I hope my old ass got it right this time!}

    Like


  90. “maxine:

    “When a white male dates out especially with bw, you find its more genuine,due to the hierarchy system he has nothing to gain by dating black women as she is at the bottom where he is at the top,however when black men who are also at the bottom date anyone above them on the system-it seems they are stepping up-but whatever women who is above them is seen as stepping down when she dates a black man.-showing that white men date bw because their reasoning tends to be more genuine,which probably reflects in the stats that when white men date bw,their union is more successful then when bm date white women.”

    I don’t agree with this statement, its self-serving as a black woman, that you would say that white men who date black women, do so in a genuine way.

    So white women, have something to gain by dating a black man but white men doesn’t, when dating a black woman? You’re being hypocritical, how can you say one is true for one and not the other? what are you basing this on?, your opinion?

    I am basing my theory on the history of how white men have treated and look at black women in the past and present, not my opinion.

    This is being, disingenuous in the least and naive at best to say that the majority of white men, look at black women in a serious sense and not as exotic creatures to satisfy their sexual fetishes with black women.

    Also, to say that is to ignore the history of white men, looking at black women in this very fashion, like they did in slavery and Jim crow and all the way up to this point. So by your logic, somehow, white men’s mindset of black women, just up and changed, if you believe that, then you may believe that the majority of white men, are not racist again black women, too.

    The majority of white men, “date and have sex with” black women, out of pure fetish, experimentation, because they can and black women, throw themselves at white men, being they are white struck, just like black men, regarding white is right.

    Like


  91. @ sondis

    Reading your comments, your viewpoints are rather interesting. I had always assumed that due to the stereotypes, it was black men who like to run after white women and bash black women. (Didn’t Kanye West make a song about prizing “light skinned girls”? And now he’s married to one.) After all, it is blacks who are stereotyped as masculine while Asians are stereotyped as feminine, rendering the Asian female and the black male as the embodiment of white sexual fantasies. The stats provided by abagond back this assertion. If you look closely, it is Asian women who marry white men at the highest rate. More white men are married to Asian women than to black women, despite there being more black women than Asian women. So by your statements, do you believe that white intermarriage with Asians poses a greater threat to the Asian community and culture?

    I think so. Given how few Asians there are, the fact that they have the largest rate of intermarriage to whites, and the relatively recent generation of Asian women (even Asian men) who despise the opposite sex of their own race, I think the Asian community would not survive long without current immigration rates.

    Like


  92. @ jefe

    My other Asian aunt is also married to a white man. One time, she said to her husband (in front of their half white/half Asian son),

    “Asian men are so ugly. You’ve been to China. You know what I’m talking about. I would never marry an Asian man. OK, *insert husband’s name here*, you’re not handsome, either, but at least you’re white. That’s why I married you.”

    When I heard this, my jaw dropped to the floor. Meanwhile, my aunt’s white husband just smiled and beamed, soaking up his white privilege and not calling her out for her shit, talking shamelessly like that.

    It was then that I began to understand why so many Asian females I had met in my life were so rude and disdainful towards me. It also helped open my eyes to my own self-hatred and allowed me to self-criticize and reflect on the deeper meaning of my own internalized racism.

    Like


  93. @sondis…“The majority of white men, “date and have sex with” black women, out of pure fetish, experimentation, because they can and black women, throw themselves at white men, being they are white struck, just like black men, regarding white is right.”

    First of all, let’s be clear — I love you my Brother and I appreciate your including that “majority” qualifier. But, c’mon, Man, it’s obvious you could leave it out and that’s how you’d still feel (kinda like Dr. Umar Johnson to whom you once referred me). And you know what? That’s fine with me.

    But the above statement is more of a generalization than even an inkling of the truth. I feel I’m particularly qualified to speak on it since I am, and have been in such a relationship probably for longer than you’ve been alive (I’m guessing cuz you look so young in your avatar photo! :-)). Don’t get it twisted, I agree, your opinion has been the dominant opinion since time immemorial. Back in the 80’s when I married, I can’t lie and say that didn’t cross my mind (I’m from SC for Chrissakes!) — but TRUST, there was no “throwing myself at him” because I was “white struck” (Color struck yes. Let’s be real, what did you expect of my dark chocolate ass in Dixie?? White struck, absolutely not — I hated white folk for how they teated me and mine in that SC town).

    That said though, your opinion totally gives us Black women NO AGENCY in our own lives! It’s as if we’re too, f*ckin’ stupid to know the whys an wherefores of our own lives and relationships and I, for one, take issue with that. Let me tell you Brother, I came to my marriage 100%WHOLE. We met in the Navy at language school — I was neither pregnant, nor penniless, nor looking for a man. I was getting a damned Navy paycheck, had a future as a linguist, hanging out and partying in Monterey, CA — just like him. I was “FOINE,” as was he in my eyes and we fell in LOVE. He treated me with dignity and respect and I reciprocated, because that’s what I needed in my 24 year-old life at the time. I went where I was loved. I never bad-mouthed Black men (Jesus H. Christ! My damned Grandaddy, Daddy, and 23 year-old brother were Black men!). I never thought, “white was right” or that because I was “Black, stay back.” I loved myself some damned me — and he did too, or he wouldn’t still b here after 32 years.

    Brother, I suggest you treat us as individuals, with minds of our damned own. Disagree with us on issues and principle if you must — but LOVE AND RESPECT us as we do you. Just cuz we love you, doesn’t mean we forget, nor does it give you license to disrespect us. After all, there’s no amount of money, bleaching cream nor outside influence that can erase the Black that we ALL are and will be — no matter what the hell happens. We still live in a dangerous, violent and unsettled world that sees us as less than — Trayvon Martin, Miriam Carey, Jack Lamar Roberson and John Constantino (to name a few) prove that. Let’s not add to THEIR crazy by inflicting it on each other, mkay?

    Peace, Family…

    (Abagond, I apologize for being a space hog)

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  94. @ jefe

    I have known a quite a few half whites/half Asians growing up, obviously almost all of them being the children of white men and Asian women. I recall one of them who looked remarkably white. You would probably not guess that he was half Asian. Looking back, it makes sense now why he always acted so contemptuously towards me. Other half whites/half Asians love to boast how they’re much “better looking” or “hotter”. I ask myself, “Hotter than what? Asians?” I realized then that some HAPAs really do think they’re better than us just because they’re whiter. Just look at blacks. Light-skinned blacks think they’re better than dark-skinned blacks. Why would Asians be any different? You see movies like The Matrix, with Keanu Reeves (who I saw as white growing up) who is half Asian. He is presented by the media as fully attractive and sexualized unlike full Asian men who are constantly denigrated and neutered.

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  95. @ jefe

    I know another half Asian/half white man who recently told me how sorry he felt for me when I told him that I came from Cupertino, a majority-Asian city. I wondered to myself what could be so wrong with being Asian that the word “Asian” came to be regarded as a dirty word. I wondered how an Asian could possibly claim pride in their race when they saw being surrounded by Asians as a terrible thing.

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  96. @ jefe

    One of my half white/half Asian cousins has been particularly mean to me on several occasions, targeting my being Asian as if it were a terrible thing. He says the word “Asian” with such a tone of utter contempt and disdain that I have no doubts that he resents being Asian. We travelled to China several times and every time a Chinese native identified his white features and pointed out how white he looked (when the Chinese point out white features in a half Asian, they do it like it is one of the greatest compliments that can ever be bestowed), he would put on this big smile and beam proudly, even puffing in delight. However, whenever anyone points out that he is Asian or Chinese, he will shake his head furiously and put on this bitter and resentful grimace. One time, when I was reading a magazine article about Ferdinand Marcos, he pointed at Marcos’s picture and laughed at how ironic it was that an Asian man had a white name. He did not see the double irony in the fact that he was Asian himself and had a white last and first name as well, and was laughing at another Asian man. This is the same cousin whose mother bashes Asian men in front of her husband.

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  97. @ sondis
    Its not self serving for me to be honest in what I have experienced with white men and them expressing their love to me in a way that is unpretentious but unconditional.
    White men who date black women don’t have to,they choose to,they can mostly have the pickings and if he chooses a black women its evident that he doesn’t have anything to prove,especially when the consensus of the media coverage etc does not always show black women in the right way…you look at these superficial studies and he could easily be swayed by negative attitudes and follow the majority but these type men have a preference for black women and that can not be denied.
    Yes agreed that there are white men whom do have a asian or black women fetish and its purely sexual but most do not.
    I didn’t say white women had more to gain by dating black men I actually think they have less,because certain people tend to look down on white women who date black men especially if he’s not famous or has no money-when have you heard of a famous or rich white women taking a common black man…never or its rare-however when you turn the situation around its very common for rich bm that feel the need to take any women that is not black-mainly white women,that is very telling of the issues of how he sees himself as a black man and the general consensus is that in order to think of himself as achieved he has to have a white women only assumes what people think of bm in situations like this,but just don’t dare to say.

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  98. maxine:

    “Yes agreed that there are white men whom do have a asian or black women fetish and its purely sexual but most do not.”

    I disagree, MOST or the MAJORITY of white men, look at black women as purely sexual, play things.

    Just because you got your white prize ( a white man ) and he treats you good, doesn’t mean the “MAJORITY” of white men, would even marry or have children with a black woman, let alone, not look at black women as something to have sex with any nothing more.

    This is what I’m talking about black people, whenever a black person, gets into a relationship with a white person, they thing its the best thing, since sliced bread and try to convince, other black people, that its the way to go.

    These black people, expect other blacks to be Negro bed wenches and Mandingos for white men and women, in between hoping to find that one white person in a million, that don’t look at us as something just to screw and throw away in the trash, when their done. I don’t think so, i am not willing to be any white woman’s Mandingo.

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  99. @Peanut

    ”ALL Men suck?”

    How did you come up with this premise? I would love to find a guy to date right now but how did you come up with this opinion?

    Like


  100. @Maxine

    According to research that I have done Black women and non Black male marriages are the most stable and the least likely to divorce.

    Why is that?

    Black men and White women relationships, on the other hand, have the highest divorce rate out of all interracial reunions and in the country.

    Several theories I have to the high divorce rate between Black men and non Black women particularly White women is that they can’t culturally relate to a Black male. And the Black male can’t culturally relate to her either. Most Black men date outside of their race for the wrong reasons. A lot of it has to do with self hate and not loving and valuing being a Black man. Also many of them see a non Black women as a way to tell the world that he has ”achieved something”. Or they had bad experiences with Black women and think non Black women would be a better alternate to them.

    And believe it or not, Most White women who date Black men actually sexually objectify Black men. They just want to experiment with Black men and ride on his big ****. I am excluding Kim Kardashian and other non Black women who genuininely like Black men and don’t just experiment with them, They want to ride his big **** but she still believes her White skin is better than his big ****

    Now you see why Black men and White women relationships barely work out unless they love each other and get together for the right reasons.

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  101. there is a lot of us that date outside our race and it’s just part of normal dating, not as many as stay in their lane obviously

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  102. Peanut , sorry to see you dragged through the mud under the false pretence of “keeping it real”…you dont deserve it…

    Isnt it interesting, most black men are with black women, most Asian men are with Asian women, but, look at the huge disscusions of interracial sex with white people (after all , that is what the big hang up is on here, its interracial sex with white people) , and the huge amount of cyber space and energy it takes up

    Yeah, interracial sex is just too juicy and exciting to ignore

    Im really wondering at the psycho analysis going on in such abundance on here?

    First, I dont trust psychoanalysis , period…its a murky science, ancient understandings of the inner being , go much deeper with greater results than psychoanalysis ever could…

    So , that being said, is anyone on here a trained psychoanalysist? Because I see a huge amount of psychoanalysing, generalising and stereyotyping

    The thing is, in america, the roots for the political agenda coming from some black posters, being bitten by some Asian posters on here, are very tracable , and can be found as the bilge water from the huge black civil Rights Movement in the late 60’s..which had incredible things , and was key to bringing civil rights and black awareness to the front…is it any wonder that in a movement so big andimportant , that there would be some agendas that were unhealthy and didnt really play out on the ground..?

    .along with unrealistic bans on interracial sex, culturaly destroying tap dancing and putting down Armstrong , and forgetting the history of their grand parents were just some of the other political agendas that got put out there with no reguard for the consequences…and, as is well on display, interracial sex attitudes are dominating and raking over the coals , the narrative of black civil rights in America , and reaking havoc…in a most negative way

    Lets be clear, its racist whites who were first and formost against interracial relationships

    The sex in the back woodshed with a black women , by white men is mostly a southern white male origin…I guarentee you, most white men in the Chicago area where I grew up, didnt think of black women as sexual outlits ,,,at that time…in the north, there was just pure division and hate …which makes notions of pushing black people to have sex with white people as some kind of white strategy, sounds ridiculous and pathetic…i mean that is some twisted convolution

    “sex with the white slave master” as some kind of reality is as absurd as saying there is no legacy of slavery going on in the Americas…sounds like a dichotomy? But it isnt, they are two differant things…mutual consenting sex by two adults is way too complex than to break it down into steryotypes and generalisations

    Or the notions a black person will gain some kind of status being with a white person? I mean really , just look at the scrutinising, generalising, steryotyping and dogging going on here or on storm front, no, anyone going into an interracial relationship, is going to be examined way beyond any normal being looked over…they are going to have to fasion there own special set of defences and antennas, to be on the look out for narrow minded people of all colors

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  103. Adeen, I agree very much about what you said about “culture”…I actualy think that is the larger picture…most white Americans are culturaly ignorant of the value and depth of black American culture…most of them have copied black culture and dont know it, or , know they like pop black culture of their generation, but cant take it any deeper than that…the destroying of black culture was the main thrust of slavery, destroying the slaves culture was the goal and the thinking that culture was inferior, was the basis for creating races in the first place

    culture is a very deep factor in this reality

    and, where I support your personal choices, we can agree to disagree about whether white people and black people can or cannot have interracial relationships…or why or why not

    but, one thing you have said, you are a black nationalist….I hope, in your quest to be a black nationalist, that you will go back and actualy look at the black Civil Rights movement, and be able to analyse all the things that came out of back then, and what did immence good, and what attitudes should be jetisoned, because they are doing damage

    and, I also hope, after your correct observation about culture, that you might go and examine the real struggle and histories of various Afro diasporic cultures , because the story of those cultures is the story of the Afro diasporic battle to survive in the Americas…and that story is lost in this anti interracial sex diatrades…what a waste of time

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  104. @B.R.

    interracial sex is no more exciting and juicy than any other type of sex (if the partner is right).

    Like


  105. While I agree that hispanic is not a race, I do think they should be categorized differently than what they are today. Most Hispanics that i know do not see themselves as white or black but as their ethnicity. For example my husband and his family always refer to themselves as Mexican when asked what they are. Some Puerto ricans I know do the same.

    I know that people are quick to categorize them as their own when one commits a crime. Funny how that works…you are white until you commit a crime, then you are black or hispanic lol.

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  106. Yeah, Sharina, but you wouldnt know that from the reams and reams of disscusion about it

    I mean my god,just look at thread after thread after thread about nothing but anti interracial sex

    Is that healthy? This is cold blooded reality…people cant get enough talking about it…they must be doing a whole lot of thinking about it

    I would never say interracial sex is anything more than consenting sex between two adults

    why do people in interracial relationships have to put up with any more scrutiny than anyone else?

    We dont diserve to have disgruntled people staring at us because of their hangups

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  107. @Adeen

    Nice theory. My next door neighbor was married to a white woman. He divorced her and took the kids some years back. The reason was basically because she was not what he thought she was going to be. She did not keep house, she sun bathed topless in the front yard for all to see etc. Surprising though he is now with a black female.

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  108. @B.R.

    I try not to read the comments because I know how these type of thoughts go. Then as the conversation continues I will just go have sex with my husband and call it a day.

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  109. Ha ha, yeah, me too, Sharina…that happens with me a lot after reading these comments

    its just that, no one can deny on here, when the subject is interracial sex..or relationships…there is a huge amount of discusion…abnormaly so…huge huge huge

    yet I cant get people to go back and analyse and dissect the exact origins of these attitudes

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  110. sondis,

    “I disagree, MOST or the MAJORITY of white men, look at black women as purely sexual, play things.”

    And this differs from how black men see black women?

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  111. @sondis
    I am the prize,he got lol lets not get it twisted but seriously you are thinking in a box,what you need to do is change your original thought process because you are basing everything around color…and its a lot more broader than that.
    Take away the color and the man is still going to be the man,that goes without saying-it was never about color with us,

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  112. @adeen
    Yes,you have reiterated what I said so I think we can agree that we both think from the same hymn book lol
    A lot of bm go into these relations with white women with a blanket view of how they think white women are and when these white women are not always the way the media portray,the bm is disillusioned
    White women are gentle
    Submissive
    Are Great mothers
    Are basically perfect
    and the reality is very different from the dream…
    A lot of ww assume bm to be like wm ,but bm are very different,different attitudes,beliefs and goals and when a white women I guess doesn’t get the lifestyle/treatment she has been accustomed to she pines for that way of life.

    I think a massive,massive part that links bm with ww is the sex-ww want to be bamboozled by a black beast lol..but sex is not enough to sustain a true,meaningful relationship so it eventually dies as it can’t hold together for too long because just like flower withers away and dies so does the relationship.

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  113. @maxine,

    can’t the same be said for black women who seek out white men, even though the vast majority are hateful in terms of blacks? What about all the youtube videos and online blogs that dog out black men and claim white men are like some sort of saviours?

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  114. @Kiwi,
    You posted a few posts b*tching about “Hapas” you have known or met and you have nothing positive to say about them. However, you addressed them to me.😮 I am not sure what you want me to do with your comments. Maybe you could take a step back and imagine what kind of environment they have to grow up in, esp. those who had an Asian parent who is constantly denouncing other Asians and a white spouse who validates the Asian spouse’s assessment. It can cause the child to grow up with a certain amount of internalized racism and it is hard to say exactly how that will be expressed.

    I have some beef about how white people in America are sometimes, but I have not had a very cheery experience with many Asian-Americans either, esp those who were rather westernized / white-washed and suddenly realized one day that they were Asian and then expressed resentment over what I was.

    When I was in the USA, I started to feel anxious around Americans in general (blacks, whites AND Asians and Latinos) and began to hang around more with non-Americans who had not yet picked up American racial attitudes.

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  115. I am married to a white man and I don’t understand black women seeking or in interracial relationships that will talk *isht about black men. Definitely points to some issues of self-hatred and/or mental issues. No one is perfect, and just because as a woman you have only had lousy experiences with black men only proves that YOU have had lousy experiences with some black men. I have dated nearly every ethnicity of male and *gasp* they are people and individuals. Still, just my experiences. I can’t paint any one type of man with a broad base not with regard to character. Sometimes the people one ends up dating says as much about that person. Before I met my husband I was in a relationship with a black male of Cape Verdian heritage, but it didn’t work out. I did not go screaming for the hills and declaring every black man a psycho then rushing into the arms of a white man. I was just always open to accepting love when it came in whatever package it came in.

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  116. “solesearch

    sondis,

    “I disagree, MOST or the MAJORITY of white men, look at black women as purely sexual, play things.”

    And this differs from how black men see black women?”

    We aren’t talking about, how black men, see black women now, are we?

    The whole post is talking about interracial relationships, black men and black women, doesn’t constitute a interracial relationship.

    Nice try at derailing my point but you failed, miserably.

    Like


  117. @msgoodtooyall
    Agree about Mr. Obama. He’s okay. I don’t think that mixed race people are any more attractive than anyone else. Many also look pretty monoracial and you wouldn’t necessarily guess they were mixed. Lenny Kravitz, Halle and Russell Wong had me fooled for sure.
    @Kiwi
    Your auntie is a trip as are all people claiming one race is better looking or uglier. I’ve seen some smoking hot asian men just walking down the street. I have no idea what she’s talking about! It’s funny too, because my sister in law in Asian and she thinks the same thing about Asian men. Then I started listing all the famous smoking hot Asian dudes to shut her up. LOL.

    Like


  118. @Legion

    I should have stuck with my original comment of sitting this one out.

    Like


  119. @poetess

    THANK YOU!

    Like


  120. maxine:

    “what you need to do is change your original thought process because you are basing everything around color…and its a lot more broader than that.”

    I tell you what maxine, just as soon as white people in America, will stop basing everything around color, then so will i.

    I am working within the confines of the box in which i am, contained.

    Don’t expect me to think from outside of this, social construct that the white man has created for himself.

    “Take away the color and the man is still going to be the man,that goes without saying-it was never about color with us,”

    This is what every black man and woman, would LOVE for white people to do but fail, over and over.

    So you found a white man that hasn’t failed in this regard, so by your logic, just because you have your white prize, the MAJORITY of white men, “TAKE AWAY THE COLOR AND SEE BLACK WOMEN AS WOMEN FIRST AND NOT BLACK, FIRST.

    Again people, don’t be fooled by these black house kneegrows, they date the white man and all of a sudden, WHITE PEOPLE AREN’T RACIST ANYMORE!, THEY DON’T HARBOR, RACIST STEREOTYPICAL VIEWS OF BLACK PEOPLE ANYMORE, BECAUSE THEY ARE HAVING SEX OR IN A RELATIONSHIP WITH A BLACK PERSON!

    I’ve heard this music before.

    A white person being in a marriage or relationship with a black person, means nothing in terms of the white person not being racist, still looking from a white self serving, white lens that a white person has looked through, their whole lives.

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  121. @B.R.

    I agree. These topics are hot and they quickly get way out of hand. I can see the writing on the wall, but poetess brought in a good point. Interracial relationships are fine but when one starts bashing their own race then….issues.

    Like


  122. maxine:

    “A lot of ww assume bm to be like wm ,but bm are very different,different attitudes,beliefs and goals”

    This makes no sense, whatsoever.

    The sole purpose of a white woman, dating a black man is NOT because a white woman thinks, the black man, acts the same as a white man, has the same attitudes,beliefs and goals.

    I’ve talked to some white women that date black men and asked them, why do you prefer a black man, over your white men?

    They always respond in a similar way by saying, ” black men are more masculine”, black men have more “swag”, “black men have that element of danger” , “i feel more save with a black man, than a white man” ( i guess this means that black men are brutal and can beat the hell out of their white men )

    I think you get the picture, their are plenty of reasons why a white women, chooses a black man over their own white men but the reason you gave, “white women, assume black men will be like white men” is false on so many levels.

    Like


  123. One thing Id like to say, there are a number of people in interracial relationships who post on here and a number of mixed race people, and I dont think I ever saw a post that said mixed race kids were more beautiful…there may have been one, but it isnt the standard…Ive said the race mixture n Brazil is beautiful , and it is, beautiful, and wonderful and, rmarkable for all the differant shades and differant combinations you can see of the people involved, but that doesnt mean racially mixed kids are more beautiful than mono race kids…

    And I havent heard many of the same people, and not me , say interracial relationships cure racism…

    That never was the issue…”colorism” can cross lines, but , it is not the major all tie in issue…many black Americans deal with colorism issues, but, dont desire to date white people…who is to say if any person’s psychoanalysis of someone else , is valid? or isnt tainted with their own personal traumas and bias? How can they really judge other people’s behavior from a distance?

    I can out anecedote anyone on here…for getting physical intimidation attempts (they sure didnt succeed) for going out with black women, from all sides, I could talk of the 4 other sister in laws I have who had failed relationships with black and brown men, who left them with children, and are now being nurtured by white men , except I dont beleive in stereotypes , and I sure dont beleive black men are failures, I beleive the men in those relationships, didnt work out..they happened to be black..because a sister had a contact over seas, they ended up there and met men there…

    I could tell you about the beautiful black singer I was with for a minute, who was brutily raped by a big black man…and , maybe you could say that she hooked up mostly with white men because of that…but, she adored black men, loved them…she pushed a black drummer on Freddie Hubbard behind my back when I was trying to hustle for the gig..and didnt get it…ahhhhh she would never say anything bad about black men, and I never had a relationship with a black woman where that was the discussion…never

    I beleive in people’s personal choices , and them paying their own personal consequences if they make a mistake..

    By all means , warn people of differant types of white people’s behavior, that could tip someone off they are a racist…but, make it a mandate, generalise, stereotype, and pseudo psychoanalise black people who have made their own choices , for their moments in life….?

    Is that the real front line of the battle against white racism?

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  124. Sharina, yes, I agree, there are flags, and for sure , there are varying degrees of why people get into bad relationships..I cant see making it a mandate…warn people of behaviors, put the information of colorism out there, but, people get to decide for themselves what their personal relationships are..they will pay for bad choices…

    It reminds me passing through O Hara airport with my son and he had a coat and tie and breifcase, at about 12 years old…the cute black attendant of TSA, said, “…Bryant Gumbel…” she was wrong about his intentions…he was James Bond

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  125. Kiwi:

    “So by your statements, do you believe that white intermarriage with Asians poses a greater threat to the Asian community and culture?”

    I would have to yes, being that Asians are more of a minority in America, than blacks but i think you knew that already. ^_^

    I also would like to point out that the Asian community, seems to be fine with their race, being wiped out by having children with white people.

    The majority of Asians have embraced, being the model minority by white people, unlike the majority of black people, that have rejected being sells outs.

    Therefore, Asians seems to be digging their own grave and the trade off is being a model minority. You can’t have it both ways…..

    Like


  126. on Fri 11 Oct 2013 at 18:32:23 the alchemist

    @Maxine,

    Good article by a black women about her brother’s marriage to a white women. She was’t the submissive, loyal wife.

    Your Spouse May Be Black, But You’re Still Racist:
    http://evettedionne.com/2013/09/12/your-spouse-may-be-black-but-youre-still-racist/

    Like


  127. @B. R.

    I agree.

    Like


  128. sharina, whatchu doing over there—-> ^_^

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  129. @ sondis *sigh* i guess it’s time.

    >So what, they contact us in a impersonal way on the down low and always >want to meet us at a hotel, when they happen to be on a “business trip”

    what do you expect on a dating site? My mom always said that’s for people who can’t get dates otherwise. I’m proud to be with an attractive black woman in public.

    >Black women, being women, want more than just sex. They want marriage and >commitment, this is what white men use to lure the black woman.

    I have dated some pretty wild black women on some real ish

    >The fact that white men, will marry a white woman, have white children, get a >divorce and then all of a sudden, want a black woman?? That’s suspect to >me…

    my first real girlfriend (i had had one before in high school but it didn’t last) when i was in college was black and native american, identified as black, looked black. I dated many many many black and spanish women before i got married.

    I had posted some of this all but it was a drunken postin night and most of it got zapped, it was not put forward in a calm and rational fashion last time.

    I was tryin to get a ring for vicki we were very poor when she died, we had been together over a year.

    I don’t know dude clearly i’m not speaking for the average white office worker or blue collar dude or anything resembling normal but hey there it is.

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  130. v8driver:

    I’m speaking about, the MAJORITY of white men of how they see black women, NOT THE MINORITY, which you claim to be.

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  131. @ sondis my new one 2 years younger than me but my last 6-7 gf’s (i do go through them) been 5-7 years older

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  132. dude i think i lay a ligitimate claim to not bein like too many other people in general

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  133. i take crap from people family especially for having gone black, trust and believe

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  134. @mstoogood4yall re: miley cyrus, clearly she is miss wonderbread, hannah montana, dad a white country singer etc etc, from the heartland and all that crap, i think white ppl that are becoming cultural competent (if they can) or at least expanding to new cultures, clearly she has encountered some black influences with ‘twerking’ et al., i think we go though that dropping the n word and stuff hopefully she will grow out of it. isn’t she pregnant with a black rappers’ baby

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  135. it’s probably hard for her or let say that tim allen fellow to have some black friends educate them on proper respect if they have the celebtriy ego too

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  136. @Maxine

    I agree with you. lol I am glad we both agree here. And I wonder why Black women have longer lasting relationships and marriages with non Black males. Statistics say that Black women and non Black male marriages are the most stable and the least likely to divorce.

    How come?

    And as a Black woman, I don’t plan on ever dating or marrying a White male. They are so gross to me the way that they look down on and hate Black people and the way they look too.

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  137. @Mstoogood4yall

    Why are you so obsessed with Miley Cyrus? She is just twerking and crap to get attention. Trust me, she is on her way downhill. She is the next Lindsay Lohan!

    Like


  138. I don’t think one can ever get a real idea of who is dating or marrying who when you start with a false premise. Which of course is the fallacy of race being an actual thing.

    Wouldn’t a better way to look at this topic be to study marriage or dating using ethnicity as your starting point? For instance I wonder how different the dating patterns are between Korean – American, Japanese – American and Chinese – American women? Probably very different. But, if all of the women are just put into the “Asian” category then the result will be very generalized and probably not reflective of what happens in the real world.

    Also. I think regional difference would be interesting to look at.

    Like


  139. @Sondis

    This is from a Sister to a Brotha. I know why White female date Black men.

    MOST White females have a fetish for Black males and only date them because they want to ride his big ****. Many of them think that Black men have big ****s and want to experiment with one. Yet the average White woman still thinks her White skin is more valuable than his big ****.

    MOST White women sexually objectify Black women for their own purposes. And MOST White women prefer White men if they want to be in a real relationship with a man. I wouldn’t say White women love Black men because lust and sexually objectifying is not love at all. At the end of the day, the White woman is the female counterpart of the White male. She only serves the purposes of White males and to help White males continue the system of White supremacy.

    In other words, beware of White women and don’t ever trust or date one. Like White men, they aren’t to be trusted.

    Like


  140. Adeen:

    You won’t get any argument from me with that statement.

    Like


  141. @ adeen

    I only mentioned miley because I was responding to someone about non blacks with black friends and I used miley as an example of someone who is non black and has black friends and can still be racist.

    Like


  142. How about White male and Asian women relationships? I have also read that White male and Asian women marriages also have a high divorce rates as well as Black male and White women marriages.

    I have never really studied these type of relationships in depth like I have Black male and White female relationships though

    Like


  143. @Sondis

    How is my favorite Brotha doing? I am glad you agree with me! White women are just as dangerous as White men because they use their feminine wiles to tempt you to sleep with them and help the White man continue the oppressive system of White supremacy.

    I command any Black man to stay away from White women!

    Like


  144. @Mstoogood4yall

    I agree with you on your premise on Miley Cyrus though. She may be racist though. To me, there is nothing more dangerous than a White person who acts like they are down with us yet they hold racist views against Black people. Those type of Whites send chills down my spine. I even have more respect for the David Dukes and Edgar Hoovers of the world than these so called Liberal Whites who act like they are down with Blacks but hold racist views against Blacks.

    Like


  145. sondis,

    It’s not derailing. You’re saying black women shouldn’t date white men because they see black women as nothing but sex objects. I just pointed out that black men do the same thing. So that really isn’t a valid reason to object to black women dating/marrying white guys.

    That’s not derailing. That’s pointing out how illogical and insincere you are being. You don’t care about black women being treated as play things. Your objection to black women dating/marrying white men is more about your feelings than any concern for black women.

    If you are truly concerned about black women you would emphasize dating good guys not black ones.

    Like


  146. solesearch

    sondis,

    It’s not derailing. You’re saying black women shouldn’t date white men because they see black women as nothing but sex objects. I just pointed out that black men do the same thing. So that really isn’t a valid reason to object to black women dating/marrying white guys.

    That’s not derailing. That’s pointing out how illogical and insincere you are being. You don’t care about black women being treated as play things. Your objection to black women dating/marrying white men is more about your feelings than any concern for black women.

    If you are truly concerned about black women you would emphasize dating good guys not black ones.”

    ” I just pointed out that black men do the same thing”

    This is derailing, when you attempt to change the subjects of the post by bringing up black men.

    Typical tactic by white men to always bring the black man into the discussion, when pointing out, what WHITE MEN DO TO BLACK WOMEN.

    The black man is always at fault, even when the black man, has nothing to do with the topic of discussion.

    You’re claim of what i said was an outright, lie! I NEVER, said anything about, “black women, shouldn’t date white men” quote me in all my responses to this thread on me saying, “black women should not date white men”

    I am pointing out, that the majority of white men, don’t take black women seriously and for that, you ( a white man ) takes that as, me telling black women, not to date white men. You obviously, aren’t able to differentiate, between those two.

    This is typical of white people, they twist and contort, black people’s words and then project their opinion onto us.

    Then you go as far as to tell me, what i do and don’t care about, typical white man’s feelings are hurt, because a black man is telling his secret, so black women will stay oblivious to his tricks to getting a black women in the sack to sleep with.

    I’m wasting my time, i don’t go back and forth with white people, you’re agenda is clear, i can care less what you, a white person says or thinks about anything i say on a black blog, that’s owned and operated by a black man and for black people.

    Like


  147. @sharina
    “interracial sex is no more exciting and juicy than any other type of sex (if the partner is right).”

    idk about that one

    Like


  148. @Solesearch

    White men have been sexually objectifying Black women’s bodies for centuries by raping our bodies and abusing it. Many Black men follow suit in sexually objectifying Black women’s bodies and degrading us Black women because many of them suffer from self hate and want to be like White men.

    I am also against Black women dating White men as well and as Black women, we can both debate on this.

    My argument:

    No self respecting Black woman of any ethnicity should date or marry a White American male because White American males are our enemies and oppressors, most of them are racist and look down on Black people and most of all, a White American male only sexually objectify Black women.

    White American males are the ones who made the White supremacist system that runs the country of AmeriKKKlan that benefits them and ensures their place on top of the economic and social ladder of this country. White American male created the system to the advantage of him, his White female and White children and much to the disadvantage of Black males, Black women and Black children. Black people were enslaved and picked cotton, which helped the White male prosper from slavery. It was the White man who made sure that we are disadvantaged and taken advantage of in our own country! The way that White males treat Black people in the past and the present ensure us that they are our enemies and oppressors.

    Second of all, most White American males are very racist and look down on Black people. This mindset that White is right and that Black is bad in AmeriKKKlan started from the founding of this country. The Founding Fathers didn’t see us Black people as more than property to be used and abused. To this day, most White American males still see us Black people as subhuman, apes who don’t contribute anything to society. Why would you date someone who looks down on your race, culture or ethnicity?

    Last but not least, White American males only want the chance to have a casual fling with Black women whom they find attractive. Most White Americans males don’t want a real relationship with a Black woman because they don’t see us as worthy of being in a relationship with. Beautiful Black women are just sexual objects for them to use and abuse. In that way, they are just like their ancestors in sexually objectifying Black women only they don’t rape us as frequently as they did in the slavery days.

    Thus I don’t think Black women and White American males should even think of dating or marrying each other. The very thought makes me sick and I am a Black woman writing this. Why date and marry the enemy?

    Like


  149. @adeen

    >This is from a Sister to a Brotha. I know why White female date Black men.

    >MOST White females have a fetish for Black males and only date them because >they want to ride his big ****. Many of them think that Black men have big ****s and >want to experiment with one. Yet the average White woman still thinks her White >skin is more valuable than his big ****.

    eh, yeah ok … not. trust me on that one. i mean size is proportional to size, if the dude is over 6′ chances are you know, he has big feet, but no… that is a myth. or maybe … idk i dont want to get into this with you,

    Like


  150. […] An interracial relationship (IRR) is a dating or married relationship between people from different races. This post is about the ones in America. It is an overview post – click on links to go deep…  […]

    Like


  151. […] See on abagond.wordpress.com […]

    Like


  152. yay i got a date ttys dont be hatin!

    Like


  153. @V8Driver

    It is true. White women sexually objectify Black men and only date them because of the big **** myth. In other words, MOST White American women just want to sexually experiment with Black men. And Black men don’t ever realize it until it is too late.

    And White men also sexually objectify Black women and would only sleep with a Black woman they find attractive but they will never seriously date or wife a Black woman. I have even experienced something like this happen to me too but I never slept with him. I will never date a White man or marry one for that reason. Never.

    I don’t want to offend you but I just want to tell you my views since you probably find my views radical and extreme.

    Like


  154. on Fri 11 Oct 2013 at 22:50:58 Pay It Forward

    “A lot of ww assume bm to be like wm [. . . .]”

    __ __ __

    To a certain degree they do seem to expect BM to be like WM. A few years back, I was a lurker on a WW for BM message (I’ve also lurked on BWE blogs before BTW). Fascinating stuff, really!

    On the rare occasion there were a few self-identified BW members who posted; I myself never did. This seemingly left the WW and BM members feeling, on some level, that they had the privacy to spill their guts; and many did just that. It was sort of embarrassing really … what with the bitterness as well as the amount of groveling and sniveling that went on from the BM members. After a while I simply stopped checking in.

    Some of those expectations the WW had of BM were very basic (I won’t go into detail), and many seemed almost shocked that these expectations weren’t being met. Many made a point of addressing these expectations in ads they made in search of BM romantic partners.
    .

    Like


  155. @adeen
    eh well i dont care if they try to find out the only way there is to…
    no, we’re good, no worries.

    Like


  156. I think Sotomayor has made quite a bit of positive waves for men in general. Not really fair to accuse him of self-hate. He has a pretty big ego. Justified imo.

    Like


  157. Sondis,

    I’m not changing the subject. I’m exposing your hypocrisy. I’m not bringing up black men as an excuse for white men’s behavior. I’m bringing it up because you say black women shouldn’t date white men because of that behavior. If we go by that then black women shouldn’t date men at all. Heck, no woman should ever date a man.
    I’m not derailing. I’m just pointing out how hypocritical and ridiculous your advice is.

    Like


  158. @peanut

    Your comment just rub me the wrong way.

    I hate when black women talk about how loyal they are to black men. That is misleading at best, and straight up FALSE at worst.

    It makes it seem like you are doing BLACK MEN a favor. Which would also mean that there are other races of men you REALLY want to be with & can date, but you deliberately restrict yourself to black men.

    “Loyal” Black Women fall in two categories:

    1. Black Women who find black men the MOST attractive above other races.

    Maybe because you grew up around black men aka sexual selection.

    Either way, you are with a black man because you derive pleasure from being with him.

    2. Black women who don’t have the sexual value & patriarchal relationship intangibles to date other races of men.

    American Black Women are very unique, and I will leave it at that. They operate under different rules when it comes to gender roles, etc. A majority, not all.

    So, patriarchal men from other communities when they want to date interracially, black women are chosen last, NOT because of lack of sexual attraction. But they do not get along culturally.

    Basically, all you are left with IS black men.

    Because we are the group of men who will most likely deal with your BS.

    ————————-

    I am not trying to deflect from WHITE SUPREMACY & it detrimental effects on black relationships.

    I am just saying that be SELFISH in your dating, stop acting like you are doing black men a favor by desiring us.

    It is insulting to any black man who has had to deal with black women on a real world level.

    ———————–

    Like


  159. Legion was right–this is about to go on and on and on…

    Abagond, did you really have to write another divisive post?

    Like


  160. Adonis:

    “I am just saying that be SELFISH in your dating, stop acting like you are doing black men a favor by desiring us.

    It is insulting to any black man who has had to deal with black women on a real world level.”

    I agree with this statement, 110%

    Like


  161. I really was deciding not to comment, but i saw this:

    Black women who don’t have the sexual value & patriarchal relationship intangibles to date other races of men.

    Adonis, the American Black community is just as patriarchal as the Asian (East and Southeast heritages), non- white Hispanic and white American communities. There is no society in the Western world that has a true matriarchal community…

    Like


  162. @pheobeprunelleo…Amen, and amen again, Sister.

    Like


  163. on Sat 12 Oct 2013 at 03:02:45 the alchemist

    Any post involving interracial anything brings out the crazies. Why Abagond?

    Like


  164. on Sat 12 Oct 2013 at 03:06:15 King of Trouble

    I don’t now why I have prefer someone over another person just because of skin color. I love women, I love them deeply, what else matters. Let some other lunatic say he only dates someone from this category not this one. If you’ve got a sharp mind, and I am attracted to you then yes before I got married I would have tried no matter what ethnic group you were. Do I have a problem with black women no most are great and set the imagination off, do I like every black woman no. I love highly educated black women who make me think and keep me on my toes. Yet, I love this in any woman I dated. Tons of black women have done it for it and I have to say I look back and I am not sorry for dating who I wanted to. I date to enrich my life not some statistic and I am selfish about my dating because I aim to please me and the woman I am with. I got married because I felt happy and it has been good. There are of course down periods but hey I am a moody guy.

    I am selfish in love, I do not love out of some strange commitment to my ethnicity. I love because the chemistry in my brain sets off my heart and I feel passion. Plenty of black women I have met now makes my mind say hey you are married Bub.

    I see a beautiful black woman I feel hungry because of sight when she expresses a sharp mind it is addictive, but make no mistake I love quick minds in all the wrappings. The worst thing I could imagine is being stuck with a dull person.

    Women are beautiful but I have to put that part of me behind the door, I am already committed. Why should I leave my wife just to have someone of the same ethnic group? Cause when the siit hits the fan, I had better have chosen the right woman for me.

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  165. Adonis,

    “So, patriarchal men from other communities when they want to date interracially, black women are chosen last, NOT because of lack of sexual attraction. But they do not get along culturally.

    Basically, all you are left with IS black men.

    Because we are the group of men who will most likely deal with your BS.”

    What you perceive as freedom from gender roles is actually the burden of having to take on both roles because of the absence( physically or mentally for whatever reason ) of black men.

    What BS are you talking about? Are you saying black women’s freedom from gender roles is bs? Are you saying black men are less sexist than white men?

    If that is what you are saying then I’d say that to deal with something you have to be present. And the manner in which black men deal with what you call freedom from gender roles renders them absent.

    Im not saying they are the root cause of the phenomenon but at some point the effect becomes the cause which creates the cycle.

    Like


  166. I may be wrong, but I’m sensing a general anti- masculinity tone here (“Men are dogs”).

    I don’t believe dating someone solely for sexual reasons is “using” a woman or taking advantage of her. She enjoys it, you enjoy it, and as long as you are honest about your intentions ( frankly the subject of marriage shouldn’t come up before at least six months, if not a year) I don’t see what then problem is, regardless of race. We are talking about consenting adults here.

    Also, I don’t see how it’s wrong to date multiple people at once before you have committed yourself to one person.

    I just broke up with the girl who once posted on here. It was mutual. We are still friends and neither one of us wronged the other. It was fun while it lasted and I don’t regret a bit of it, even if I did maybe end up a little more dissapointed than she did. She was straight up model gorgeous. A true 10.

    Also with “exoticism,” again I don’t see the problem with liking someone because of unique beauty. Many women have fallen for my brother, who has one blue eye and one brown/ hazel eye, and when I lived on a reservation women of all races ate it up.

    Like


  167. I use to sneer at the popularity of these type of posts ,however on reflection of my own life and current experiences ,I see how continous and important a subject this is.

    As long as we sapiens are limited by hereditary evolutionary processes to vary phenotypically and have those variances cluster into groups with corresponding cultural boundaries as well this issue will remain of importance,add the factor of dominant vs subordinate expression of phenotyic genetic traits and conflict is assured.

    Everyday I must continually reject the unrighteaous advances of the dominant by aggression group and pine for the mere sight much less affection of mine own.
    The ugliness and crime keep me solitary but not celibate as I work my way through knowledge of this universe and my place in it.

    I’ve not read any of the numerous comments yet,but I will……hey trojanpam this looks like a subject you my have interest….

    Like


  168. Interracial relationships are pretty intriguing to me. Especially the BW/WM, because I don’t see that combo as much as I see BM/WW where I live. I say at the end of the day, you have to do you.

    I give an extra cheese grin when I see BW/WM especially to the lady. As my hubby makes a snide remark. And I say stop hating BM have been hip to the interracial scene for too long, bout time the sistah get hip to the game😀

    Like


  169. i am grateful for this thread bc it’s about ‘normal’ people and relationships and it enables me to separate the thuggish hood thing from something a little more real

    Like


  170. @Asplund
    “I think Sotomayor has made quite a bit of positive waves for men in general. Not really fair to accuse him of self-hate. He has a pretty big ego. Justified imo.”

    that is a really ignorant statement. as i have told the man himself he actually did do something ie start an internal black dialog, getting started using weaves some type of way, but you wrong he is not about empowering the black community at all, it is divisive what he says and there is no consistent statment or line of reasoning in his musings whatsoever. all he is doing is putting down black women and encouraging sad to say, mostly black men to harass and verbally abuse black women ostesibly for their choice of hair style. he has moved on to black men ie ‘simps’ and what not, but also from a position of some type of crackhead being dependent on the black woman whom he clearly reviles, and then he turns around and says black women are the most beautiful thing, and he has a white gf. the dude is mentally gone out to lunch.

    Like


  171. Since most black women on this blog, refuse to hear anything that black men say, regarding interracial relationships, listen to a black woman, speak on the subject.

    (http://youtu.be/4rtNB_ORuw0)

    Like


  172. @Peanut:

    We live in a white supremacist society. How can black men support black women out loud when a)They are being attacked and threatened in terms of jobs, violence and others. b)They are being told subtly and directly that white society is not comfortable with black men even finding black women attractive let alone date and marry us let alone show any support. hahaha

    open your eyes to what’s going on!

    Black men with black mothers, black sisters and so on not understanding how black women fare in this society. they know, but they can’t do anything about it or show support because it will be seen as “scary” to white women and men.

    I work around this and see it every day at work. Not only are non-blacks not supposed to talk to each other but also the one they hate the most is for blacks of the opposite sex to talk to each other.

    Black men know full well and most black men are with black women – dark skin, brown skinned, light skinned, With women with natural hair, permed hair, afros and so on. Skinny, tall and on and on.

    Stop believing the hype.

    Like


  173. @Peanut and others

    Black men do uplift black women. Have you ever watched any black music video produced by BLACK MEN, most of the women are black and they are praising black women’s bodies, beauty, and the like. Black men are told that it’s threatening to white people to even find black women attractive in front of them.

    It’s because of White men why Black men are not able to show full protection to us the way non-white hispanic men do to hispanic women, indian men to indian women and the like. Heck I had latino men tell me that when they played personals online where they preferred a black woman that the ones emailing them hate messages telling them NOT to like black women were WHITE MEN!

    Open your eyes.

    ————
    Re:
    women and that would upset white supremacy…nevertheless, I think some Black men are jealous of the fact that some Black women choose to value the gaze of white men…but most Black men don’t realize that they have the power to uplift Black beauty, but some Black men are so ashamed to do that…they degrade black beauty instead….that is why some Black women have lower self esteem when it comes to beauty because not enough Black men uplift true Black beauty

    Like


  174. lol@bw/white male unions being more ‘successful’ that’s a load of bull. You are subtly slamming black men when you say that. Look at all the black female celebrities who have had white men cheat on them, had to raise their half-white kids alone and the like. Men are men, believe me.

    I can describe my day today in a heavily white mall. In the mall I noticed a weird vibe from many of the white males. Sort of like they want to attack, or don’t know how to behave around you. It’s weird and scary. In addition, alot of them send of this vibe of “poor lonely black women no one wants, and if she’s not lonely or unwanted, I will put in energy to make her feel she’s unwanted or treated that way by others”.

    White male/black female couples high success rate?

    puhlease!

    Go into a part of the mall where it was more diverse with blacks, hispanics and Indians and see tons of black couples, black women with latino and one with an Asian.

    Whites in general don’t like black and for whatever reason have an obsessive hate where they can’t let us just live our lives. I have met more open-minded white women who could be open to black men than white men who could be open to black women.

    Like


  175. “Alicia:

    We live in a white supremacist society. How can black men support black women out loud when a)They are being attacked and threatened in terms of jobs, violence”

    This is pure, truth! preach, sista…preach! ^_^

    Like


  176. “Alicia

    lol@bw/white male unions being more ‘successful’ that’s a load of bull. You are subtly slamming black men when you say that. Look at all the black female celebrities who have had white men cheat on them, had to raise their half-white kids alone and the like. Men are men, believe me.”

    I see you…come on sista, don’t ease up now! ^_^

    Like


  177. V8

    Unity among black, white, Asian people, whatever is not really a concern of mine. Any thinker who will stand up to simps in 2013 is going to get at least some praise from me in 2013.

    Like


  178. @ sondis

    I agree with you on Asian submission to white rule.

    I once asked my mother what she would think of me dating a white girl. She said she was fine with that. Then I asked her what she would think of me dating a black girl. She gasped and said “How terrifying!”

    Whenever she gets into a conflict with a coworker at her workplace, if that coworker is say, Arab, Persian, South Asian, Southeast Asian, African, *insert dark-skinned ethnicity here* she’ll rant on to my father about how mean, dark, and dirty-looking the coworkers are. (Ex: “I can’t stand that dark, ugly Filipina b****!!”) She has also talked about her conflicts with white coworkers, but she never once made it about their race or skin color. She’ll even bash Chinese coworkers and make it about their ethnicity. My father is not much different. He told me how he prefers to have a white boss or manager over any minority. Now why is it that such racist Asians (they have faced white racism and had to fight it when they came to this country) give white people the benefit of the doubt?

    Asians kiss up to whites. A big reason I come onto this blog is that I have a lot of trouble talking to other Asians about white racism. They tend to get hostile and will jump in front of whites and defend them, as if they were the ones being accused of being racist. I do not get this as much from other minorities. For example, Muslim-Americans understand me a great deal better than Chinese-Americans.

    Like


  179. What bugs me about topics like these is how it always boils down to including white people, this is so fuqqing tired. I’m sorry but when I think interracial relationship I see myself cuddling up with Takeshi Kaneshiro not Brad Pitt lol.

    Like


  180. But you are throwing out assumptions,because of what you believe,you are generalizing that all white people are racist, but does that mean that when white people make generalizations about black people having a lower IQ,violent,living like animals etc..this is true.
    You are presuming that my man is racist by default,he went out with few white women when younger but has always dated black women,he has been persuaded by friends / certain family members not to date bw,we were out- he got beat on by a black man who thought he should not be dating me-he STILL went against opposition because he desires to be with a black women.
    Me on the other hand desires to be with any man that treats me with love,respect and a healthy,committed union…if that man was black it would be great but life works in other ways…and I wont fight fate.
    Of course a white person can be with a black person STILL be a racist (I have seen one experience where a white mother out in the park,partially drunk with others,call her biracial child the N word,to the great amusement of her friends,there was an instance where my friend dated a wm who didn’t like any black men,when they had an argument he called her all sort of racist names)..
    What you’re failing to see is that some humans – there is always a quota that do not fit a certain criteria and do not judge on color-for instance,whether it be a minority
    I went out early to the shops to get milk,looking a hot mess lol and this white women gave me a dirty look,most with your mindset would have assumed she was racist-but I said-had I dressed smarter that look may never have occurred,I also rationalised it could have been a bw that felt this way,showing that it had nothing to do with my color but dress sense…
    You exercise personal judgement with slight paranoia -its the classic case of the patient going to the doctor with a runny nose ,the doctor immediately presumes he has a cold but it could be a million other things..you’re only looking at the smaller picture I think.

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  181. Well to you it makes not a lot of sense but many white women go into unions with bm and while they think hes cool,he has swagger,great in bed,etc he lacks what they already expect in a relationship with what they get with white men.
    when the realization of the expectations does not meet their requirements-their illusions are shattered,its not uncommon for white women to date bm and end up going back with wm -however as most wm who date exclusively ww,don’t like to date ww with biracial children you find that these ww with biracial kids tend to stay with bm or just move on to the next,usually because their dating options with other race men are limited.
    A white man would rather date a bw ,rather than date a white women with biracial kids,because if hes made a choice to be with a bw hes OK with that-however he would not be really OK with dating a white women with kids to a black man-maybe he feels second choice or maybe he is not applying that acceptance that the white women chose a black man as first place and bringing up a black mans kids is too much to bare(based on his own prejudiced feelings towards bm)

    Like


  182. Two comment above to @sondis

    Like


  183. @ Adeen

    Despite the fact that many believe @tommysottomayor and others that certain bw have attitudes and leave them behind when dating wm.
    If I’m honest-I believe that despite gender,many blacks do indeed act differently around white people,now I’m not saying this belief has full roots but there is some truth in it
    I believe that with black women,white men tend also to be the less dominant in the relationship,very accommodating etc,bw indeed do act a way around wm that tends to be different than with bm
    I haven’t seen many bw act ghetto around wm and have a relationship there,but then I have also seen bm do exactly the same thing with other race women.
    There are many black people here that are defiant in their need to continue the flow of black love and stand united and while many bm date bw by majority,bw are by far,more reluctant to date out..however I’m finding today bm(some) do not give bw that credibility back..

    Like


  184. @thealchemist

    Thanks for the article however its something I have heard of before,so it doesn’t surprise me -I’m aware that racists can date out/marry and have children but I would still live to believe that not all whites are racist
    While I believe racism is learnt behaviour there is evidence to show thats it by default-try watch the different series if you can:
    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAv8JA_9uKI)

    My great aunts friend,has a son who was married with 2 kids to a white women,he was in the military and as a result she got a house with a good wage,unfortunately he lost one of his legs in battle came home to his mum because they couldn’t get on-all of a sudden he was of no use to this women-she even had the balls to say she doesn’t want to grow old with a black man.

    Like


  185. @ peanut
    thanks,nice to get acquainted.

    Like


  186. Yes, Peanut, it is about sex, and you can cut the sexual tension on here with a knife….

    And while this blog can have in depth disscusions about racial issues, European history , western liturature, Islam , the commenters as a whole about sex are uptight and inexperianced , with some pleasant exceptions…this is not an advanced diologue on sex, just check some of the threads about porn or booty dancing…homophobia rules , and we had some enlightened gay commenters like Ace, who doesnt comment anymore,, with attitudes towards gays on here, I can guess why

    So, this not being a sexualy advanced commenter public, is it any wonder that interracial sex goes through the roof? I mean you cant lie about this,it is blatently obvious , interracial sex gets obssecive commentary ….

    “white gaze”? Peanut, the white gaze is a very small amount of people who own the media and make those desicians behind closed doors and they bring their petty bagage behind closed doors and they bring their petty baggage to those desicians…they are the ones who make the desicians about who goes on the screen , big or little

    You know, Im in touch on a daily basis with the work of very high leval Afro diasporic artists, either working directly with them or practicing with their work and studying and analysing it…it brings the deepest of fullfilling , enlightening and soul filling feelings….I dont get any of it from the media, I have to seek it out and dig for buried treasure…and if you look, you will be rewarded a hundred times over

    The black women I have worked with and study, are of the highest order of beauty and grace and strength and intelligence , and just the act of them trying to work expressing their culture, they are subjected to huge obstacles of racism and dissmissing, burying and destroying their cultures…sometimes by black political agendas…yes, I worked with some great black female tap dancers….

    you cant let media define you , cyber space comments are not real life either, but people are making judgements on races by cyber space comments

    Its funny with so many self appointed experts on black people and racism, how we cant go back and analyse exactly where and why this political agenda came out….why it is unique to the black american diologue…why doesnt it happen in Brazil with so much of a similar dynamic? This proves it is not a universal dynamic that comes up in the same circumstances, which means it is a superficial political agenda about interracial sex the same uptightness as whites who are uptight about interracial sex

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  187. @peanut

    Sister, you are being INTELLECTUALLY DISHONEST or just being plain ol’ myopic, and again, you are not a black male or you have not had discourse with different types of black men to confirm your perspective. Let us get into your post.

    @ Adonis,

    maybe it rubs you the wrong way, but it’s true and Black women do stick with Black men whereas other women just run out on them as soon as things get tough and the divorce rate between bm/non-bw reflects that.

    Link (1) (1) http://www.divorce360.com/divorce-articles/news/trends/african-americans-and-marriage.aspx?artid=1176

    You are overlooking the black women who divorce black men at a high clip. Because women initiate divorces most of the time.

    Which frankly it comes down to MONEY for the most part, that is something that black men need to improve on collectively.

    the reason black women are loyal is because we know what it’s like to face the struggles together with Black men because we’ve had no choice, but to struggle with them because of the system of racism.

    This sounds like simple shared experiences & commonalities, which will bring most couples together, but that doesn’t mean black women & black men HAVE to get together.

    And my main point for responding to you Peanut, is that BLACK WOMEN will ride or die for CERTAIN TYPES of BLACK MEN & CERTAIN TYPES of WHITE MEN. Both these type of men make up a small percentage of the total population. And if you don’t fall under that type, black women ain’t checking for you until they get OLD & WASHED UP.

    So to say that, if I am a black man, there are loyal black women out there to receive me is VERY misleading. You are ignoring what the average black man has to face when dealing with black women.

    Other women for the most part do not have the ability to COPE with the struggles that black men face because of racism, but black women are used to it, so we stick with them FOR THE MOST part, but what rubs ME the wrong way is when this loyalty and support is taken for granted and that is when Black women may as well move on when Black men take US for granted…sorry, but it’s true.

    Again, you make it seem like as if black women are doing black men a favor, which they are not, because black women check for attractive black men who bring value to their lives, not just any black male.

    and black men are taking black women for granted, which they are not. Because, black men have to bring value to the table these days to be able to date a black woman, otherwise he gets ignored.

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  188. phoebeprunelleo

    What does your name mean

    I really was deciding not to comment, but i saw this:

    Black women who don’t have the sexual value & patriarchal relationship intangibles to date other races of men.

    Adonis, the American Black community is just as patriarchal as the Asian (East and Southeast heritages), non- white Hispanic and white American communities. There is no society in the Western world that has a true matriarchal community…

    And TECHNICALLY you are right.

    Take out racism & same group preference in non-black men.

    Also, let us assume black women will change up for other races (ie WHITE MEN) of men, so the disrespect & attitude that black women give to black men is null & void.

    Other races of men are not trying to date SINGLE MOTHERS.

    Other races of men are not trying to get with FAT WOMEN.

    And to be fair, a fit black woman is overweight by European standards, but we their is a difference between FIT & FAT. A simple OBJECTIVE eye test will tell the difference.

    It also helps to be pretty & young.

    ————–

    In conclusion, black women cannot step to other races of men, the way they step to black men, because they (non-BM) are not having it.

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  189. @SoleSearch

    When I say BS, I speak of the unnecessary attitude & disrespectful dispositions black women come equipped with when dealing with black men.

    And other races of men have higher expectations of women & yes they want a PATRIARCHAL relationship, if you are keeping score.

    Black women can behave more freely & rebelliously with certain black men because the black men they choose don’t have the finances or freedom to kick dysfunctional black women to the curve.

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  190. @Adonis

    >Also, let us assume black women will change up for other races (ie WHITE MEN) >of men, so the disrespect & attitude that black women give to black men is null & >void.

    there is a reason that woman is acting like that (sometimes) let her have her say, you know that is the lion’s share of respect

    >Other races of men are not trying to date SINGLE MOTHERS.
    who was it muhammed ali’s daughter said ‘someone thought she was cute to be havin all those kids’

    >Other races of men are not trying to get with FAT WOMEN.
    that is an odd and out of place statement

    >And to be fair, a fit black woman is overweight by European standards, but we their >is a difference between FIT & FAT. A simple OBJECTIVE eye test will tell the >difference.
    now you trippin

    >In conclusion, black women cannot step to other races of men, the way they step to >black men, because they (non-BM) are not having it.

    the black girls i dated, i said this before, there is an initial period, oh you white, are you a cop, is there something going on here, you know, the adjustment, and then no dude, they did not treat me different

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  191. V8driver:

    i am grateful for this thread bc it’s about ‘normal’ people and relationships and it enables me to separate the thuggish hood thing from something a little more real

    I think personally an abnormal amount of time is spent opposing what other people chose to do in their lives. If someone of one race does not physically/spritually/culturally or whatever, want to date someone of ther same/different race, dont date them. Simple as, simple is.

    The kind of examples on here appear to be the extremes. Interacial relationships can and do work, when they dont, they were not meant to be either because one or the other of the individuals went in with their eyes closed and dont have the stamina to withstand it. Either that or, they are the type of people that would struggle in any relationship. Notice I say ‘withstand it’ because, in a relationship such as this, though racial factors may not be at the forefront, you can guarantee that it will be for others around them – this is where the pressure comes from.

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  192. What bugs me about topics like these is how it always boils down to including white people, this is so fuqqing tired. I’m sorry but when I think interracial relationship I see myself cuddling up with Takeshi Kaneshiro not Brad Pitt lol.

    Damned! Damned, Damned!

    That is the absolute truth!!! All of my girlfriends who are engaged to non Black men are with East Asian and non-white Hispanic men–you know other folks of color…

    And i’m biased (lol) but after BM/BW couples they make by the most handsomest!

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  193. @Omnipresent what i am saying is i don’t think a lot of people here have the street experiences i have tryin to be with people of massive substance abuse problems and that make it harder to have a relationship, much less a real life, much less understand the differences of culture etc in an irr, so … like the drama in the hood? really didn’t come from me bein white in most if not 99.99% of the cases

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  194. @peanut ‘sticking by her man’ and ‘doing right by her man’ two different things course if bull out runnin the streets, fair is fair

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  195. Adonis, it seems that your analysis is dependent upon stereotypes of black women and non-black women. The stereotype being that black women have attitudes and non-black women don’t.

    Black men might be less likely to stereotype black women in such a fashion and thus are more open to dating black women. They aren’t just “dealing with” black women’s unreasonable attitudes. They know that line of thought is bs. But as you have demonstrated there are plenty of black men who subscribe to that kind of white washed thinking.

    Black men are just as sexist as white guys are. They aren’t more open to dealing with women’s “attitudes”.

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  196. Apsulund,

    “I don’t believe dating someone solely for sexual reasons is “using” a woman or taking advantage of her. She enjoys it, you enjoy it, and as long as you are honest about your intentions ( frankly the subject of marriage shouldn’t come up before at least six months, if not a year) I don’t see what then problem is, regardless of race. We are talking about consenting adults here.”

    Right, but we are talking having sex with people that don’t respect you as a human being. That’s not cool.

    Like


  197. @Gen and phoebeprunelleo

    That is what bugs me about these type topics. It makes it seem like white men are the only other choice. LOL

    Like


  198. ^^ hmm…said so many times😀

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  199. Adonis seems to prescribe to this magical thinking that a lot of Black men prescribe to. Black women are flawed and are not fit to be with any man of any race. Black women have to be “put up” with, but every other type of woman is “normal” and relationship material.

    This leaves everyone else a viable member of the dating pool with BW left on the outside fit only to be baby momma’s and one night stands for Black men and men of other races when they get in a bind and some other more deserving “normal woman” is unavailable.

    What they fail to leave out is that BM generally grow up in the same households and environments as BW, but somehow BM magically leave those common environments unscathed and surprisingly normal and well adjusted and fit to date and marry “normal” women of of other races. They can choose to “put up” with BW if they want to, but why bother?

    The elephant in the room is that the divorce rate between BM and “normal” women of other races is probably so high because BM are not as “unscathed” and “well adjusted” as they like to advertise. Maybe that same difficult attitude that they claim ONLY BW possess is also an issue that they themselves have to deal with.

    As for Peanut’s observation that BM have the best relationships with BW there is a reason for that. The reason BM and BW’s relationships last so long is because we both have the same relationship “style”. It’s summed up quite well by a YouTuber named UHeardMe1stTime in a video called Push/Push back. (Sorry I don’t know how to embed videos. If someone could embed it I’d appreciate it).

    I said all of that to say this : If Black women are screwed up and undateable/un marriageable, then so are Black men.

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  200. Here’s the link to that video. Hope it works.

    Like


  201. I wonder if ABAGOND can do a topic on the racist white OBSESSION with Blacks and why racists can’t let us live our lives? I mean the vibe I got yesterday at the mall from whites was so weird. It’s not every single one but a good enough percentage whom always appear to have “hurting a black” on their mind. Most blacks and hispanics and asians are walking around minding their own business, living their lives while the racist white men and women are always thinking of slighting a black person. it’s weird and creepy. if you don’t like someone, why always choose to have them on your brain and be so obsessed?

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  202. @jadapoo1 very interesting

    Like


  203. “Adonis

    “Again, you make it seem like as if black women are doing black men a favor, which they are not, because black women check for attractive black men who bring value to their lives, not just any black male.

    and black men are taking black women for granted, which they are not. Because, black men have to bring value to the table these days to be able to date a black woman, otherwise he gets ignored.”

    Adonis, you’re a breath of fresh air, until you came along, i was the ONLY black man to challenge the black women’s bashing of black men on this blog.

    Everything you said in response to peanuts comments were right on the money as she always comes off like she and other black women are doing black men a favor by “supposedly” sticking with the black man, which is rubbish far as i am concerned, being i have seen just a taste of the hundreds of thousands of black women on just ONE, interracial site and they are all OPEN to being in a relationship with a white man or just plain prefer a white man over a black man.

    Let me put it this way, if the MAJORITY of white men, took black women serious and not only sexual play things, the majority of black women would love to marry a white man, being that black women are under the spell of white supremacy, just as black men are in America.

    The majority of black women in America, want a child with a white man, so their children can have light eyes, nice straight hair and European features, so they can have better chance at life, being they are closer to white as they are going to get, being half black.

    The “REAL” reason, the MAJORITY of black women don’t date/marry white men is because, the MAJORITY of white men, don’t want black women in any serious capacity, other than sex.

    So peanut is trying to project her interpretation of black women, sticking with black men for the sole purpose of community but ignoring the fact, that the MAJORITY of white men, don’t want anything to do with, marrying or being in a long term, meaningful relationship with black women.

    Its disingenuous to keep on about how black women are more loyal than black men, perhaps it was more true ( but not totally true or no more than black men have been, loyal to black women ) back in the 60’s and 70’s but not in 2013!!!

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  204. Ah, well, Sharina, you have it backwards, its not about sex with white people, the overriding, criticism, mandate, pseudo psychological psych analysis is really what is wrong with people of color for having sex with a white person, and how they dont recognise their oppresor, and have colorisation issues and how they have been manipulated

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  205. (Sharina, I see you said its as though white people are the only choice, but, again, the criticism seems to be more at people of color for choosing to be with white people , I sure have no advice for POC that they should be with white people)

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  206. @sondis idk i’m not tryin to stir stuff up with you but you are on some straight middle-class ish and you don’t seem like you are from the hood at all which raises in and of itself raises a whole plethora of societal issues that ‘normal’ people can bypass with ease by ignoring them, i have been harpin on the underclass and lower class to be recognized here for a long time, and it is slow but sure progress for me on that front.

    ima let it go at that except to say we as americans are constantly bombarded by images of how it is acceptable to maim shoot stab and otherwise kill people as well as have unprotected sex in all forms from the tv. so to say this or that category of sentient carbon based life forms in the political boundaries of what is known as the ‘usa’ on planet sol 3 is adapting to that better or worse, seems disingenous,

    and the cable tv does seem to be the common denominator between the mansion and the ghetto comcast uber alles

    Like


  207. on Sat 12 Oct 2013 at 19:05:39 grin and bear it

    I have mixed feelings about IRRs. On the one hand, you fall in love with who you fall in love with; and mature, respectful, and enduring love between two like-minded adults is hard enough to find and nurture as it is, so if you find it, then make it work no matter what. I know plenty of people involved in long term IRR (most of whom are raising bi-racial children), and they’re putting in the work to keep their relationships strong. They encounter all the BS that often plagues IR families, yet they endure. That’s commendable.

    On the other hand, I’ve also seen a lot of what Sondis talks about — particularly how white mates disappear when things get serious, or at the first signs of adversity. I couldn’t say whether that’s a race thing or just cowardice in general, which crosses all racial boundaries. But it does make you wonder.

    What I have noticed, and this is just borne of MY observations and personal experience, is that black women involved with white men still maintain their ties to blackness, whereas black men involved with white women seem to distance themselves from it. Again, just my own perceptions. For example, the Black women I’ve known with mixed race children, raise them to understand and appreciate both parental lineages — even if the children themselves can pass for white. The women maintain ties to their family and friends, and also make an effort to involve their children in culture-specific activities. Their world view might be expanded, but it’s still centered around their blackness, and they can slip in and out of either world with ease.

    The white woman/black man dynamic seems completely opposite. Once black men get involved with white women, their world becomes the world of the white woman. She rarely partakes of his world, but expects him to be a full participant in hers. Social gatherings and activities revolve around her friends and family, but not his. If they have children, they’re raised “white” or, even worse, “color blind,” without any kind of nod to their blackness. It’s as if white women expect black men to bow down to their pillar of whiteness, without acknowledging any aspect of his blackness or even accepting it at all. Again, just my personal observations, but I’d like to hear other perspectives and experiences.

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  208. I see so many conflicting depictions:

    white people hate black people and dont want to have sex with them and mixed race kids

    white people hate black people , but are pushing black males on white females, to especialy get at the black woman , and want them to have mixed race kids to dilute the black race

    white women secretly love black d–k , and white men want their white women riding that black d–k

    white men secretly all want black women for sex…especialy look out after their divorce to a white woman…

    white men hate black women , wont marry them and dont want to have sex with them

    there is a secret white plot to lure black men away from black women ,

    Gees, if anything , it should indicate that , when dealing with interracial sex with a white person, you better judge each case individualy…just to figure out which complex angle of interracial sex psych they will be coming from….

    If statistics are important to a person about interracial relationships….they better stay away from interracial relationships and sex with white people

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  209. @ grin and bear it

    I agree.

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  210. @ B. R.

    The issues is people are so blinded that they believe white is the only choice. Sorry but with interracial relationships whites are not the only choice. It is annoying watching the hang ups on white/black relationships only. I don’t see whites as the only choice. There is a whole buffet of choices.

    Bottom line is people should be with whoever rings their bell. Some people are concerned with the psychological aspects of it and some just are not.

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  211. “Let me put it this way, if the MAJORITY of white men, took black women serious and not only sexual play things, the majority of black women would love to marry a white man, being that black women are under the spell of white supremacy, just as black men are in America”

    I agree a little bit as I do see some self hating black men and women that couldn’t pull a white person so they bash black features uncle ruckus and sheryl underwood come to mind. I’m more into men with color in their skin so white men don’t do it for me, i’m annoyed its always whites at the center when talking about interracial, but at the same time I see that when ppl do date out it is with a white person. But I have to wonder if whites weren’t the default and on magazines and tv everywhere if they still would find whites as the most attractive or have they been conditioned to. But I think ppl are a bunch of sheep that follow every trend whether its right or not.

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  212. “grin and bear it

    What I have noticed, and this is just borne of MY observations and personal experience, is that black women involved with white men still maintain their ties to blackness, whereas black men involved with white women seem to distance themselves from it. Again, just my own perceptions. For example, the Black women I’ve known with mixed race children, raise them to understand and appreciate both parental lineages — even if the children themselves can pass for white. The women maintain ties to their family and friends, and also make an effort to involve their children in culture-specific activities. Their world view might be expanded, but it’s still centered around their blackness, and they can slip in and out of either world with ease.

    The white woman/black man dynamic seems completely opposite. Once black men get involved with white women, their world becomes the world of the white woman. She rarely partakes of his world, but expects him to be a full participant in hers. Social gatherings and activities revolve around her friends and family, but not his. If they have children, they’re raised “white” or, even worse, “color blind,” without any kind of nod to their blackness. It’s as if white women expect black men to bow down to their pillar of whiteness, without acknowledging any aspect of his blackness or even accepting it at all. Again, just my personal observations, but I’d like to hear other perspectives and experiences.”

    I have to disagree with your, personal observation.

    Women, typically take on their male counterparts ideology. You see this, when white women, only date black men.

    white women, exhibit black characteristics and linguistics, when dating black men and the same is true, when black women, only date white men, they seems to take on white men’s ideology and characteristics.

    You even see it, when an Asian woman, only dates black men, white men and so on.

    I won’t go into this any further, being i kinda feel, its neither here or there in terms of the topic. ^_^

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  213. If they have children, they’re raised “white” or, even worse, “color blind,” without any kind of nod to their blackness.

    Because it is the females who NURTURE children. Everything you know, can do and perform was genetically passed on to you through mitochondrial DNA…your father carries it but DOES not pass it on to his children…coupled with the fact that even if your dad lived in the same house with you and had a strong bond with your mother, he still didn’t spend as half as much time with you than your mom did.

    GrinandBearIt, i think Mrs. Deb’s opinion on THIS would be most invaluable–that is if she’s willing to share,🙂.

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  214. @sondis “Women, typically take on their male counterparts ideology. You see this, when white women, only date black men.

    white women, exhibit black characteristics and linguistics, when dating black men and the same is true, when black women, only date white men, they seems to take on white men’s ideology and characteristics.”

    yay. code switching and cultural competence. score one with the guts to see it through

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  215. *score one for the ones with the guts to see it through

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  216. @Alicia, sondis, Peanut…We live in a white supremacist society.

    No news flash there, Sis.

    How can black men support black women out loud when a)They are being attacked and threatened in terms of jobs, violence and others. b)They are being told subtly and directly that white society is not comfortable with black men even finding black women attractive let alone date and marry us let alone show any support…

    Man, I’m an old head and I’m sure glad of that! Because despite how young folk like to talk about how bad the “good old days” were today, I know I’ve never generally heard, nor participated in, such disempowering and emasculating an opinion about my brothers. “Being attacked and threatened in terms of jobs, violence and others” notwithstanding, Black men, though rightfully afraid (given how retribution was meted out with the quickness), supported Black women — out loud. I don’t know what kind of Black men you know, Sister but I know plenty following in their footsteps TODAY! And as far as your b) — Black men, women and children have been told THAT “subtly and directly” since I was born, and even before that!

    Black men with black mothers, black sisters and so on not understanding how black women fare in this society. they know, but they can’t do anything about it or show support because it will be seen as “scary” to white women and men.

    Damn. Yet another disempowering and emasculating statement — CAN’T?? You really don’t think much of the integrity and will of most Black men do you? Because it will be seen as “scary” to white women and men?? Black men have been living with that stereotype for our entire existence in this place, Sister! And it’s never stopped any I know from doing or showing support for Black women — whether they were married to them or not.

    And sondis? You’re supporting this madness talkin’ about “I see you…come on sista, don’t ease up now!” and “Preach!”??? You mean to tell me, if somebody disrespected your Mama, your sister, your woman — IN FRONT OF YOU — you “CAN’T do anything about it??? If that’s true Brother, this blog is not here you need to be pnding your time. {smdh}

    “I think some Black men are jealous of the fact that some Black women choose to value the gaze of white men

    Pretty loaded statement, but I agree with the first part. I’ve run into some — even here. While some Black men may well be jealous, it might just benefit the more critically thinking of them to know, that choosing or searching out the gaze of white men is rarely, if ever the motivation of Black women who want to be loved — LOVE IS!

    …most Black men don’t realize that they have the power to uplift Black beauty, but some Black men are so ashamed to do that…they degrade black beauty instead

    I’m not surprised, especially if they are constantly being told that they “CAN’T do anything” by disempowering, emasculating women!

    ….that is why some Black women have lower self esteem when it comes to beauty because not enough Black men uplift true Black beauty”

    Peanut, Lil Sis, I’m talking to you here. Yes, there are men who do not uplift true Black beauty but, you cannot let that be the reason you don’t care and look out for yourself because that, my dear is on you! If YOU believe in your own beauty (inside and out), there’s no way others — of any hue can ignore it! I’ve been there, done that when I was your age, Peanut. I’m 57 now and I’m telling you — it’s a waste of time and energy to stay there. LOVE YOURSELF SOME YOU, SWEETIE!! Please trust me on that, mkay?

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  217. this has been quite entertaining and informative but i need to step away from the keyboard, like, but on some real ish, that loud brash woman seemingly talking ish and saying mean stuff maybe, not maybe, odds are, she wants to be with someone who’s doing well and it is encouragement if not well phrased (re: “emasculating” females, trust and believe most of them want a in their terms, real man) consider it constructive criticism, and if not, then you just done got caught up in it too, trapped like.

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  218. @ Peanut

    I am not surprised in the slightest. The majority of white men think they are better than Asian men, which is why they stereotype us as nerdy, short, ugly, feminine, sexist, asexual, having an accent, having a small penis, and a whole bunch of other racist crap.

    The white guy in the video definitely fetishizes Asian women and sadly, there are many Asian women who think just like him. Just look at the comments in the video. Even my own Asian aunt said she married her white husband because she thinks “White men are new-age and liberal while Asian men are traditionalist and sexist.”

    It is also highly likely that if the white guy in the video were to see an Asian man with a white woman, he would get his panties in a bunch because he doesn’t like the fact that nonwhite men are taking “his” women. Believe me, I’ve seen and heard of white guys with Asian girlfriends who openly disapproved of Asian male/white female pairings. These same white men will even talk down to me in front of their Asian partners like I’m a child.

    In fact, white men are so insecure that they have a bizarre fixation on the penis sizes of nonwhite men (big black penis stereotype vs. small Asian penis stereotype). It is ironic that white men stereotype Asian men as sexist because they are the only ones in history to have lynched black men and Asian men for having sex with “their” women.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watsonville_Riots

    In Asia and America, we see white men and Asian women paired everywhere, yet neither I nor any other Asian man has ever lynched a white man because he has had sex with “our” women. Yet white men still think Asian men are the sexist ones. And these white men think they are the saviors or knights who have to swoop in and “save” Asian women from us. Just look at Hollywood. The Wolverine was basically about a white man who goes to Asia to save an Asian women from her sexist father, grandfather, and boyfriend. Then he gets busy with her because he’s “better” than Asian men.

    Black men have been lynched by white men, too, just for looking at white women. Think of Emmet Till. White men see white women and nonwhite women as their property. Think of the American South’s views on women as property and of slave rape. White men do not like other races of men engaging “their” women in relationships. Just ask jefe about his parents and the flak his white mother got from white men for being with an Asian man.

    Now tell me, who is the greater sexist and paternalist? Stereotypes are simply about white people projecting their insecurities onto us.

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  219. @ deb

    amen, thank u. I read some of that and was thinking wtf. smh.

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  220. @phoebeprunelleo, grin and bear it…“GrinandBearIt, i think Mrs. Deb’s opinion on THIS would be most invaluable–that is if she’s willing to share,🙂.”

    Sister, I grew up in the “Call and Response” tradition of Southern Black churches! You called, and here I am!🙂

    I believe both of you hit the nail on its proverbial head for me.

    “What I have noticed, and this is just borne of MY observations and personal experience, is that black women involved with white men still maintain their ties to blackness…For example, the Black women I’ve known with mixed race children, raise them to understand and appreciate both parental lineages — even if the children themselves can pass for white. The women maintain ties to their family and friends, and also make an effort to involve their children in culture-specific activities. Their world view might be expanded, but it’s still centered around their blackness, and they can slip in and out of either world with ease.”

    This is EXACTLY how my family’s been living for 32 years! And I believe it is primarily because of, as you said, Sister: the fact that even if your dad lived in the same house with you and had a strong bond with your mother, he still didn’t spend as half as much time with you than your mom did.

    While my boys cannot pass for white (I’m a dark, chocolate, Sister, no chance of that happening!), even if they could, I’d still have raised them as grin and bear it described above, because as I said somewhere upthread, I am “obsessively Black” — my culture is my memory, it’s the proud, strong ever-surviving shoulders upon which I’ve stood all of my life. There’s no way I could not pass that on to my sons — no matter who their father was.

    “Slipping in and out of either world with ease” is something I’ve mastered not because I’m trying to be white (again, no chance of that happening!), but because I believe in me, and in us! We bring so damned much to this world’s table, Family. All we need do is learn it and believe it! Our ancestors have shown that there is nothing we can’t do! That’s why we’re still here — bruised but not broken. That’s one of the main reasons I link to and visit Abagond’s blog. I keep learning shit!

    Yes, plenty of our attitudes have been shaped from the outside-in. How could they not be seeing as we’ve been: indoctrinated in the schools, inundated by all matter of media and generally kicked the hell around by folk wa-a-a-y more insecure than we have ever been or will be? But I promise you, somewhere along the way, we remember, as James Baldwin said, “from whence we came.” And trust me, there’s nothing like that realization! It’s thrilling and empowering to know that the foundation upon which you stand has always been there for you, all you needed to do was lean on it, and build — wherever, and with whomever.

    phoebeprunelleo, thanks for asking! I’ll get off my soapbox now. 🙂

    Like


  221. on Sat 12 Oct 2013 at 21:49:23 Pay It Forward

    Omnipresent writes:

    “I think personally an abnormal amount of time is spent opposing what other people chose to do in their lives. If someone of one race does not physically/spritually/culturally or whatever, want to date someone of ther same/different race, dont date them. Simple as, simple is.”
    __ __ __

    I totally agree.

    Typically when someone says that he “doesn’t believe in” X, Y or Z activity, he doesn’t mean that his personal beliefs should apply to him only but to all other individuals as well. It’s kind of despotic actually.

    Like


  222. @ deb
    “Man, I’m an old head and I’m sure glad of that! Because despite how young folk like to talk about how bad the “good old days” were today, I know I’ve never generally heard, nor participated in, such disempowering and emasculating an opinion about my brothers. “Being attacked and threatened in terms of jobs, violence and others” notwithstanding, Black men, though rightfully afraid (given how retribution was meted out with the quickness), supported Black women — out loud. I don’t know what kind of Black men you know, Sister but I know plenty following in their footsteps TODAY! And as far as your b) — Black men, women and children have been told THAT “subtly and directly” since I was born, and even before that!”

    on point, I will add that black men don’t have to shout from the rooftops that they love or support black women, in the age of internet u can just say it without being recognized or putting urself in danger of backlash. U can even go up to a black woman and say I like ur hair or something outside of work. u don’t have to say it in front of whites. also as an example black ppl supported Malcolm x but a lot would not want whites to know as their job and family would be in jeopardy. and booker t Washington even though publicly he was for education and being peaceful and not worrying about integrating
    “Washington contributed secretly and substantially to legal challenges against segregation and disfranchisement of blacks” wiki.
    so u don’t have to get on a soapbox or take out a billboard and praise black women but u can do small things.

    Like


  223. @mstoogood4yall…You’re very welcome, Sis. I just get a little full sometimes.

    The quickest way to make sure somebody “CAN’T do anything” — is to keep telling them they can’t! What the hell do you expect to get in return if that’s all your giving??? I just can’t wrap my head around it.

    Like


  224. “Damn. Yet another disempowering and emasculating statement — CAN’T?? You really don’t think much of the integrity and will of most Black men do you? Because it will be seen as “scary” to white women and men?? Black men have been living with that stereotype for our entire existence in this place, Sister! And it’s never stopped any I know from doing or showing support for Black women — whether they were married to them or not”

    applause. I can’t help but think if ppl co sign that we are powerless to do anything we will become powerless for real. so what if whites are scared they’ve been scared since we landed here. they were scared of black men during slavery, jim crow, and now. the only difference is they can’t outright lynch black men and send post cards of it. this is just as lame as the excuse ppl use for black ppl not getting married, like oh during slavery black ppl weren’t allowed to get married so now they don’t want to get married. Really now well black ppl during slavery still wanted to get married and did even when they had a huge possibility of being split up and sold off. my point is we can’t always look at what we are not allowed to do but look at what we can do. we may not be allowed to always support each other publicly but we can send each other support online or in private.

    Like


  225. @mstoogood4yall…“…I will add that black men don’t have to shout from the rooftops that they love or support black women…”

    Exactly! My grandmother always told me, “It ain’t what dey say, Debi — it’s what dey do!”

    In addition to all your other suggestions, I would just add that we try as hard as we can, to live as lovingly as we can among each other. The emotional, physical and intellectual assaults will always be with us. We are not now, nor have we ever been, living in a “post-racial society in these alleged United States (or the world really!), so stop looking for it. I’m not trying to “transcend” or be “post-” anything lain out by those who constructed the shit in the first place. I’m just trying to live, love and be well for me and mine, and that “mine” not only includes my immediate family, but my extended family, who’ve dealt with this oppressive construct all their lives, as well.

    Like


  226. @mstoogoo4yall..“I can’t help but think if ppl co sign that we are powerless to do anything we will become powerless for real. so what if whites are scared they’ve been scared since we landed here. they were scared of black men during slavery, jim crow, and now. the only difference is they can’t outright lynch black men and send post cards of it. this is just as lame as the excuse ppl use for black ppl not getting married, like oh during slavery black ppl weren’t allowed to get married so now they don’t want to get married. Really now well black ppl during slavery still wanted to get married and did even when they had a huge possibility of being split up and sold off. my point is we can’t always look at what we are not allowed to do but look at what we can do.”

    *bows* and says, “Thank you!”

    Like


  227. Well, absolutly, Sharina, I find this concentration on what is wrong with being with a white person in an interracial relationship , extremley boring and tiresome…the steryeotyping, psycho analysing, politicily agendising…

    It becomes some kind of back wash dinn , like tinnitus , echoing back on itself…

    people should absolutly talk about the various interracial mixes that can go on in America outside of “white and POC”

    the things that are said, that imply mandates , and critics with psychoanalysis of the charactor of people they dont even know, should be challenged, sometimes it leaves me no choice…or, yeah, Im the one who doesnt have any sence, and everyone else who knows better just lays out

    You never know in an interracial relationship when your sensibilities might be challenged. Sharina, when I think of some neighborhoods in L. A> where Mexican gangs are crossing paths hard with black American gangs, and the divisions played out in California prisons based on that,, I think of you and your husband , and if you all might get caught in the middle of some hate…which I would really feel bad for you all if that happened…even a tense situation

    Like


  228. @Jadapoo1

    Adonis seems to prescribe to this magical thinking that a lot of Black men prescribe to.

    Go play in traffic

    Black women are flawed and are not fit to be with any man of any race. Black women have to be “put up” with, but every other type of woman is “normal” and relationship material.

    Focus on my words, and attack my statements, not what you think is going on in my mind.

    The s-xual marketplace is about social status, which comes down to VALUE. If black women are sexually VALUABLE (pretty, young, fit, childless, patriarchal, solid relationship intangibles)

    Kneegrows will line up around the block to date & marry these kinds of black women.

    But let us not pretend that these black women exist in spades.

    This leaves everyone else a viable member of the dating pool with BW left on the outside fit only to be baby momma’s and one night stands for Black men and men of other races when they get in a bind and some other more deserving “normal woman” is unavailable.

    Black women & women all over the world pretty much choose the kind of men they will entertain.

    Sometimes being a baby momma or a sidepiece was more valuable than being a wife. And vice versa.

    She slept with a dude before demanding he sign a marriage certificate, so that is on HER. This is not the time to make black women as if they have NO agency in the mating process.

    What they fail to leave out is that BM generally grow up in the same households and environments as BW, but somehow BM magically leave those common environments unscathed and surprisingly normal and well adjusted and fit to date and marry “normal” women of of other races.

    Most black men date & marry black women. FACT. And I will most likely do the same.

    And nobody overlooks dysfunctional black men. The media takes every opportunity to throw dysfunctional black men under the bus for sport.

    Black women only have been getting heavy insults by the media since 2006, and with the Internet & men having a voice, it feels like you have been getting dissed forever.

    They can choose to “put up” with BW if they want to, but why bother?

    Again, pound for pound, being that a black patriarchy & collective legacy building is not in place, why should I give a black woman preference over other women.

    Is this affirmative action for dating?

    The elephant in the room is that the divorce rate between BM and “normal” women of other races is probably so high because BM are not as “unscathed” and “well adjusted” as they like to advertise.

    I agree with that to a certain degree. But a lot of black men are impoverished, and if you want a serious relationship with any woman, a black men must have HIS MONEY in order. And we do not have the networking or white privilege to go on.

    Maybe that same difficult attitude that they claim ONLY BW possess is also an issue that they themselves have to deal with.

    I doubt it. And if black men are attitudinal, it helps their value, not hurt it.

    As for Peanut’s observation that BM have the best relationships with BW there is a reason for that. The reason BM and BW’s relationships last so long is because we both have the same relationship “style”.

    sexual selection and race a study of Chinese American women found that those who grew up in white neighbourhoods tend to marry white while those who grew up in Chinese neighbourhoods tend to marry Chinese.

    Very simple.

    It’s summed up quite well by a YouTuber named UHeardMe1stTime in a video called Push/Push back. (Sorry I don’t know how to embed videos. If someone could embed it I’d appreciate it).

    I’ll check it out.

    I said all of that to say this : If Black women are screwed up and undateable/un marriageable, then so are Black men.

    I agree. But when we speak on black women, WHICH IS THIS CASE I WAS DISPUTING THE “LOYALTY” CLAIM.

    We are in denial. That is my beef with black women in America.

    Let us keep it 1 MILLION.

    Good Day

    Like


  229. @sondis

    Adonis, you’re a breath of fresh air, until you came along, i was the ONLY black man to challenge the black women’s bashing of black men on this blog.

    I am here for black male bashing, if they negative claims were ACCURATE. They are usually not.

    But the complaints, usually come from black women who are MAD about a certain TYPE of BLACK MALE, not giving in to their romantic demands.

    And ALL black men have to take the blame for her entitled disposition.

    Good Day

    Like


  230. “Is this affirmative action for dating?”

    Bahwhahwa rofl, if it was then white women would be benefitting the most.

    Like


  231. @ ms Deb

    no thank you appreciate ur insight.

    Like


  232. @Peanut…Lil Sis, you there? Just read this, thought you might like to: http://naturallymoi.com/2013/10/news/viola-davis-embraces-her-beauty-after-going-natural/

    Like


  233. @ mstoogood4yall

    “Bahwhahwa rofl, if it was then white women would be benefitting the most.”—ROFL

    Like


  234. @Omnipresent what i am saying is i don’t think a lot of people here have the street experiences i have tryin to be with people of massive substance abuse problems and that make it harder to have a relationship, much less a real life, much less understand the differences of culture etc in an irr, so … like the drama in the hood? really didn’t come from me bein white in most if not 99.99% of the cases

    Fair enough – I really don’t know enough about substance abuse to discuss that. It seems that interacial relationships is a really contentious issue in America – IR dating all over i’m sure can and does raise eyebrows but for many on here it seems to be all consuming…even though they have decided that they do not wish to engage in this. Of course it is up to individuals what they do – its personal choice after all

    Like


  235. @B. R.

    “Sharina, when I think of some neighborhoods in L. A> where Mexican gangs are crossing paths hard with black American gangs, and the divisions played out in California prisons based on that,, I think of you and your husband , and if you all might get caught in the middle of some hate…which I would really feel bad for you all if that happened…even a tense situation”—I truly hope not. I think of how blessed we are to have been in situations of acceptance. We could have easily been victims of hatred and misunderstandings. When we went to Florida a few weeks back I was really afraid of the situation. Luckily for us the vacation rental home we were in was in a predominately Hispanic and black neighborhood. We fit in so well it was weird. The neighbors treated us like we had just moved in or something. lol.

    Like


  236. ^^^^ was for v8driver

    I totally agree.

    Typically when someone says that he “doesn’t believe in” X, Y or Z activity, he doesn’t mean that his personal beliefs should apply to him only but to all other individuals as well. It’s kind of despotic actually

    I guess it can be if people let it be. . Some of the people on here seem to be battling with what has been forced on them by society in things like how they should look and how they should act etc. There is tremendous pressure there already. It doesn’t do to worry about something that wont be a part of their life anyway.

    Like


  237. ^^^^^^ sorry, that was to payitforward

    Like


  238. Let me be clear on my stance.

    I am all for IR dating, because the @ADEEN’s & the Imhotep conscious black people don’t practice what they preach.

    Black love can be great. BUT IT NEEDS TO BE BACKED UP BY FINANCES.

    And a system has to be in place that most black people participate.

    Like non-black people do to uphold white supremacy & systematic white privilege.

    Until then, no one can tell black men & women who they can & cannot date.

    ———

    The problem I have with black women is that they like to push a TYLER PERRY narrative of all black women are good relationship partners & the black man is evil, abusive & just won’t act right.

    Or he hate himself because he checks for non-BW.

    ————–

    My stance is, whoever WOMAN gives me the most overall VALUE, and her positives great outweigh the negative, I will choose her.

    I refuse to check for any women if they are bringing a toxic environment to my space.

    And their are more toxic black women in the black community in all socio-economic levels that black people are in denial about. Black men need to avoid these black women & let the bottom feeder men of every race enjoy these women.

    Black women who are VALUABLE will always have suitors. So they are good.

    Good Day

    Like


  239. on Sat 12 Oct 2013 at 23:42:30 Pay It Forward

    Is “BM putting up with BW” actually any different than ‘BW doing BM a favor by choosing to date them only’? It all sounds too much like charity work to me, and I personally won’t date someone out of I pity for him…but thats just me.

    Like


  240. “Adonis:

    “The problem I have with black women is that they like to push a TYLER PERRY narrative of all black women are good relationship partners & the black man is evil, abusive & just won’t act right.”

    Or he hate himself because he checks for non-BW.

    +1 on this, brotha!

    “I refuse to check for any women if they are bringing a toxic environment to my space.

    And their are more toxic black women in the black community in all socio-economic levels that black people are in denial about. Black men need to avoid these black women & let the bottom feeder men of every race enjoy these women.”

    +1 on this as well.

    Adonis:

    “I am here for black male bashing, if they negative claims were ACCURATE. They are usually not.”

    I do this also but it doesn’t matter to the black women on this blog, if you point out anything, i mean, ANYTHING negative about black women, you will come under attack by the majority of black women as if their gender has clean hands in terms of black relationships, between black men.

    I have pointed out black men’s flaws, numerous times on this blog and i never saw a peep from any black man on this blog, soon as i pointed out a black woman’s flaws, EVERY BLACK WOMEN CAME DOWN ON ME!

    their favorite line…”what about black men? as if i can’t speak on black women’s flaws, without mentioning black men’s flaws in the same sentence!

    Its like black women’s flaws, can’t stand on their own merit, black women on this blog, expect for a black man to ALWAYS mention his gender’s flaws, when mentioning, black women’s flaws.

    The majority of black women on this blog, are horrible at taking any kind of criticism, from a black man.

    Like


  241. @Adonis

    I will have to disagree with this idea that if a woman is “valuable” then men will be lined up around the block to marry her. Too man of these “valuable” women are still single. On top of that your idea of value is not universal.

    Lastly it makes women sound like nothing more than a meat purchase. Valuable. …

    Like


  242. on Sun 13 Oct 2013 at 01:41:45 grin and bear it

    “Women, typically take on their male counterparts ideology. You see this, when white women, only date black men. white women, exhibit black characteristics and linguistics, when dating black men and the same is true, when black women, only date white men, they seems to take on white men’s ideology and characteristics.”

    @Sondis. I agree with your assessment to a certain extent. But mostly when that happens, it seems to be as much about class distinctions than anything else. When a white woman hooks up with a working class or lower class black man, she does tend to mimick what she perceives to be his culture or surroundings — particularly if she dates black men exclusively. But when a middle class, upper/professional, or even aspirational black man does it — even if he’s not exclusively about white women — he still tends to drop kick his background to the curb. If a lower class black woman hooks up with a white man, regardless of his class or status, he’s coming to her hood. If a middle class, professional/upper or aspirational black woman hooks up with a white man, yes, she’d move to his hood and adopt his culture, but she’d also attend Links events and the Boule, she’d still support the NAACP and UNCF, and her children would still be members of Jack and Jill. That’s the difference that I perceive.

    Like


  243. @ Peanut

    I think it’s more paternalistic with Asian men, am I right?

    I have no idea. I am not a black woman, so I have no place comparing my personal experiences with black women’s personal experiences. All I can really say is that black women are not seen as real women and Asian men are not seen as real men.

    what kinds of things do they do when they talk down to you?

    Doing my best to avoid making my blood boil, I can describe it usually as the white man trying to lecture me, or trying to make himself look like the “better man”. In fact, I often get the feeling that the white male feels threatened by me and needs to infantilize me in order to get rid of the threat of me being a real adult human male. I know it sounds weird, but I think it has to do with stereotypes.

    My white uncle once lectured me on the value of money. Then he compared me to his white nephews and nieces, and pointed out how they appreciated money better than me. He was really angry/whiny when he talked to me, and I respect his beliefs, but nobody has the right to talk to me like that. Especially since he is not my father and Asians, who are paid less than whites for the same qualifications, do not need a lecture on money from whites. So yes, he was being paternalistic on a matter that was none of his business. Also, he was being hypocritical. He inherited most of his wealth from his parents (whose ancestors got their money from dead Native land and black slave labor) and has never had to lift a finger in his life. My parents described him once (and his Asian wife) as “your typical lazy Americans”. Some of his family also immigrated to the US when Asians were not even allowed. These white immigrants were given land grants by the government while Asian immigrants were pretty much spat on. (On a huge side note: Black Americans are responsible for the Civil Rights movement which let Asians immigrate to this country again, yet it is white Americans who like to pat themselves on the back for letting Asians into “their” country. Shamelessly, most Asians side with whites and submit to them, while looking down on blacks.)

    The creepiest time was when some white guy (with an Asian girl) who was a head or two shorter than me gave me a lecture about politeness after I took back my spot in a line AFTER he cut the Asian couple in front of me.

    I was in the Asian Art Museum once, and I was making wide gestures towards some statues when I was talking about them to my family. Then some weird ass white guy came up to me and gave me a lecture on being respectful to other people’s cultures and religions, as if he knew my culture better than I did.

    White men giving me lectures on how to be “proper” has become so routine that whenever a white male stranger comes up to me, I think, “Oh God, time for white male lecture # 101”.

    Like


  244. @ Peanut

    a white man may be racist, but secretly he wants his wife to be involved with a Black man sexually because he thinks that his wife couldn’t possibly ever fall in love with a black men because to him, a black man isn’t equal to him. He may be disgusted on the surface, but the animalistic depiction of Black male sexuality fuels his desire to see his wife being “defiled,” by a Black man…because in his mind a black man can never just “make love,” to a white woman as an equal, it’s got to be something corrupt and dirty about it, but these same white men will be repulsed by black men being romantic in a genuine way with white women.

    I agree. I have read about how there is an entire field in the interracial porn industry that caters to white men. They sell porn where a black man “rapes” a white woman animalistically. They say it is supposed to be a form of “revenge porn” where the black slave “gets back” at his masters by violating “his” white women. Weird as ****, I know. I think it makes use of the Black Buck stereotype and the Pure White Woman stereotype.

    Like


  245. on Sun 13 Oct 2013 at 03:09:38 the alchemist

    @Kiwi, Legion, Peanut

    Google “queen of spades tattoo”. WW deep into that lifestyle get these tattoos to attract BM in the lifestyle. These same BM probably sit around and call any BW that watches a stupid TV show, Scandal, a bed wench. Will the hypocrisy ever end?

    Like


  246. @Sharina

    I will have to disagree with this idea that if a woman is “valuable” then men will be lined up around the block to marry her. Too man of these “valuable” women are still single.

    Young, fit, pretty, childless, solid relationship intangibles, sexually available.

    That is what MOST men around the world want in a woman.

    Women who have most of those qualities will never be overlooked by men.

    The problem @Sharina, we have women out here who are suffering under delusions of grandeur, where they think they are Cremé De La Cremé & they are really MEH De La MEH.

    And instead of taking a hard look in the mirror & improving themselves, men are to blame for their dating woes. Full stop.

    On top of that your idea of value is not universal.

    Young, fit, pretty, childless, solid relationship intangibles, sexually available.

    I know you are not into women like that, but you have to ask MEN what they like in women, not what you believe MEN should like in women. Being honest with yourself, will improve your lot in the long run.

    Lastly it makes women sound like nothing more than a meat purchase. Valuable. …

    Women evaluate men the same way. We are compared, and the very best available of us are chosen by women.

    You are not a victim, but really a volunteer.

    Like


  247. @kiwi

    It is ironic that white men stereotype Asian men as sexist because they are the only ones in history to have lynched black men and Asian men for having sex with “their” women.

    Ha-ha, you know a thought just ran through my mind. Pre-60s there were not nearly enough Asian women for Asian men, let alone for white men. Back then Asian woman / white men pairings were extremely rare (save for some post WWI war brides in states where anti-miscegenation laws had already been repealed). Now that the situation has changed, what about if Asian men start lynching whites for having sex with “their” women?😛

    Only a random passing thought, nothing more.

    Like


  248. @ jefe

    LOL! I saw a really badly photoshopped painting once of slaves working on a plantation. All the black slaves had white faces smeared in and all the white slavers had black faces smeared in. I think the picture was meant to be offensive, but that fact combined with its awful artistic execution cracked me up!

    Like


  249. Wow Jefe! That tells me alot about you. People have sex with people sometimes for the wrong reasons.. but who are you to judge that. You can’t. If a white guy said what you just did about white women dating black men he probably would be banned. So because there were and are some white bigots that probably can’t get their own girlfriends, that lynched people that means you are going to do the same thing. Rediculous. You lost all credibility with me.

    Like


  250. @ Legion

    Sadly it isn’t so niche, it’s not just a wife thing but there’s a daughter (ack!) bit to it as well.

    Like


  251. “Adonis:

    High five brotha!

    The problem @Sharina, we have women out here who are suffering under delusions of grandeur, where they think they are Cremé De La Cremé & they are really MEH De La MEH.”

    LMFAO @ MEH dela MEH

    Seriously though, you’re on something here. I’ve watched and observed these types of women, through my travels and most women, ( are average at best ) think they are professional models and won’t talk to any man, unless he drives a car, that’s worth 100 grand!

    Young, fit, pretty, childless, solid relationship intangibles, sexually available.

    I know you are not into women like that, but you have to ask MEN what they like in women, not what you believe MEN should like in women. Being honest with yourself, will improve your lot in the long run.”

    ^^ This is the main issue with women today, they don’t care to ask, what MEN look for and want in a woman.

    “Lastly it makes women sound like nothing more than a meat purchase. Valuable.”

    “Women evaluate men the same way. We are compared, and the very best available of us are chosen by women.”

    “You are not a victim, but really a volunteer.”

    I see that you pointed out, the double standard, that exists between men and women. Women can evaluate men, via physical and financial methods but god forbid, men evaluate women in the methods, stated above.

    Like


  252. Peanut, we have absolutly seen conflicting descriptions of white people on here

    A white person can be racist towards black people, not want to have sex with them at all , not want their children to have relationships and mixed kids

    that is stark contrast to your examples , which involve racist whites who in some way , in their racism, fit black people into some sexual scenario, that varies, you have the southern white notion that sex in the woodshed with a black woman is a right of passage, but , they wont want a black man having sex with their women…that is direct contrast to what you portray

    and my point was, with so many contrasting depictions, its really best for you to judge white people’s sexual notions on an individual basis…what is wrong with that?

    But lets look at your “mandingo” scenario…I mean, in all seriousness, what percentage of white men do you think actualy have that ? It seems you are building a whole template of arguments based on a behaviour that is rare in white men…I dont know any white men that think like this..I dont care, I really dont judge people’s sexual fantasies and desires , but , in serious reality, what percentage of white men do you think are walking around wishing a black man would bang their wife?

    Its funny you would rather hold on to that than actualy go back and disscuss with me the origins of where the political agenda came down in the black Civil Rights Movement, that said black people shouldnt sleep with white people .

    Like


  253. Well, Jefe, just to address your passing thought, next time you see me with an Asian woman, why dont you just fuking bring it..you too Kiwi, lets just get it fuking on if you dont like it

    To anyone, if you see me with the type of woman with your background, and it fuks you up so bad , when you dont even know me, man, just fuking bring it..Im not bullsh!ting with this, Im prepared to go all the way , I dont think any of you with your anti interracial sexual attitudes have the will I do to see your political agenda through to the end like I have the will to absolutly defy your bullsh!t notions…we can take this on line, off line, any time any where…

    Like


  254. Yeah, there is no polite disscusion on this, the ominous truth underneath leaves no room for compramise…in my decades of dealing with uptight attitudes on interracial sex from all sides leaves no doubt about the true intentions underneath the rhetoric, psycho babble analysing and just plain bigotry

    White racist Jeff implied Im a traitor to the white race for having a mixed kid, TrojanPam refferred to it as “sowering” a child, like it was pigs or something..I raised my son , and , along with the love, a strong Afro diasporic itendity, I had his back, and now he has mine, not long distance love

    I know only too well what lies underneath the bullsh!t agenda, and I fight it with every fiber of my being

    I dont care what personal desician any of you make about your own lives, dont step over my line ,or be prepared to get seriously challenged

    This is no joke , or tea and crumpets tete a tete…

    You step out the door in an interracial relationship and this is the real,ominous crud that is out there, make no mistake about it…this crud can kiss my behind

    Like


  255. Wow wtf is transpiring here? o.O lol Are people taking Jefe’s lynching joke(please correct me if it wasn’t) seriously??

    Like


  256. Oh yeah, really funny…I get the meaning only too well underneath Jefes little joke

    Lets get one thing straight , this wont be white people against POC, because huge amounts of POC will be fighting this crap side by side with me..like my sister in law , who would disembowel anyone , figurativly, and literaly if anyone suggested this anti interracial sex crap to her

    This isnt a fuking joke, Ive sat here and read some despicable and disgusting notions of interracial sex..and its a joke ?

    Its not funny to me..fuk that

    Like


  257. Its not funny to me…this is no joke

    Like


  258. @ Gen

    http://stuffwhitepeopledo.blogspot.com/search?q=backlash

    Yup. They think we’re just as bad as they are. That’s why they stereotype us as violent (black criminal, Asian commies, Yellow Peril, Muslim terrorist, Turban Tide, Hindoo Invasion, Hispanic criminal). And yet, whites are the ones who massacred millions of nonwhites throughout history, not the other way around. Stereotypes are pure projection.

    Like


  259. Yeah, well take your punk personal disgruntled resentments out of your history lesson

    In the classification of POC, there are lots of people who have done serious damage to Afro descendants

    The Asian narrative hardly looks after the cultural needs of my wife and son, which you have no idea of… You and Jefe have no idea of what the real struggle of Afro diasporic cultures are and what my wife and son really are up against in the battle for their cultural identity

    Like


  260. And, dum butt, its not that Asians are commies, its that they are as capable as any other humans to just eliminate and anialate millions and millions of people, which I would never atribute to Asian people, I atribute it to the human condition

    Only chumps like you, Kiwi, try to make it stereotypes..fuk that

    This isnt a joke , this is dead serious

    Like


  261. As a product of an interracial relationship, I am fine with them. Also, it is far more likely than not that any relationship I am in will be interracial because of me. So, if I were against such relationships, I would not only be against myself having any relationships at all, but also against my own existence!

    However, I do think racism, prejudice, fetishisation and internalised racism are big issues for both the interracial couple and any children they might have. That goes for POC as well as white people because I know there are groups that are anti-Black (or anti- anyone naturally darker than them) and, even IF you do marry and maybe have kids with someone of a different race that DOES NOT guarantee you are cured of all racism against people of that race. I’ve seen it in my own family and in others.

    I recently read an awful story about someone born to a racist white mother and a Black father (completely consensual, since I know some people will be sure it was not…). The white family is so racist, one of them even joined some white supremacist group and the poor kid always has to listen to how Black people are this and that, while they tag `but you’re different’ on the end, as if that magically erases the horrific racism.

    As for me, my white parent is pretty racist and my East Asian parent seems aware of racism in general, but prefers to pretend it isn’t there. Needless to say, I didn’t grow up very racially aware. When I experienced obvious racism (I excused all subtle things as `simple jokes’ as white people do), I felt I had no one to turn to when my white parent could never understand and my East Asian parent preferred not to talk about it… Even when gangs came round screaming racial slurs and threatening us, we never spoke about it. I suffered from internalised racism for a long time and didn’t `wake up’ until later in life. Then I had a lot of psychological struggles with that and realising how everyone had been kicking me, telling me it’s good for me and how easily I believed them.

    I think the best way anyone can go into an interracial relationship without damaging themselves, others or even their own children, is to make sure they are socially aware, well-educated on racial issues and that their partner is the same. If they plan on having any kids, they should also be ready to prepare them for the racism they will most likely face in the world. My life would have been a lot easier if I had that support system there and had known what to expect from the world. How to stay strong and not let anyone or anything teach me to hate myself for not being white.

    Like


  262. Legion, Ive been fighting Two fronts for 3 decades, in Brazil, there are plenty of anti Americans..its why i had to dig só deep for the truth

    Id rather deal with anti Americanism than anti interracial sex..racism is in Brazil, you cant escape that, but, you dont find the anti interracial sex tirade

    This is bilge water from a great black Civil Rights Movement, but invented and perfected by white racists

    Like


  263. Iris, there is nothing I have said that indicates I think interracial sex or relationships cures racism…I havent seen it thatmuch as an argument, interesting how it is always used here like its a factor

    What gets ignored here , are the millions and millions of interracial relationships that are funtioning…everyone has their anecdotes, I can counter with plenty of anecdotes to show another story

    Like


  264. B.R. – There is nothing I said that indicated I was talking about you or replying to you in my previous post.

    Like


  265. Gosh, people use this all the time “oh, interracial relationships cant cure racism”, but my god, take away all interracial relationships on the planet and it wont make one dent in racism..

    The incredible thing about living in brazil, after living in the States, is how the racist dynamic plays out in both countries, and they are more similar than any other countries about their size and pasts dealing with slaves from Africa..

    For me, the great truths from the black American CivilRights Movement, are the truths that play out in the other countries that had slaves from Africa , in the Americas

    discrimination, white privilege,rape and women used for sex, colorisation, exclusion from the media, cultural assasination, dissmisal, burial and destruction of those black cultures and how those black cultures play out as creating the foundations for those countries they were brought to

    The USA had a violent Civil War, that contributed to the extra violence and Jim Crow heaped on black Americans, but, Brazil has extremly violent history of attemting to destroy Afro Brazilian cultures, fro candomble, to Afoxe’s, to Samba , Lambada ( The Forbidden Dance), they were violently repressed

    But no where in Brazil, is there a black activist political agenda that black Brazilians shouldnt sleep with white people…even with a white class structure that under the table doesnt want black men dating white women, but is accepted in celebrities…even then, Afro Brazilians havent put out a political agenda like that…that tells me, it isnt a universal dynamic that automaticly plays out, it is a superficial political agenda

    Ive tried to get people to go back and analyse the origins of this agenda, ive tried to have an in depth conversation about it, but, no one will address that, or how could other political agendas from that same place, actualy threw Afro diasporic cultures under the bus, like tap dancing…tap dancing is incredibly important, two docus i saw said tap dancers influenced be bop drummers, be bop being one of the highest leval of black American music, by the drummers copying the tappers when they threw their heels down for stronger accents, the bop drummers started to take the bass drum off 4 on the floor and copying the tappers…

    Its not surprising some poc on here threw Afro Brazilian cultures under the bus also

    I dont trust the POC against white people mantra here, too many POC did great damage to Afro diasporic people and culture…Jefe and Kiwi have no idea what black Afro diasporic culture is, its origins, its struggles and histories of being buried and destroyed to only come out and dominate the countries the slaves were brought to in the Americas…they dont know how to defend the interests of my wife and son and the culture they live and breathe trying to make a living at…that gets thrown under the bus on here, or , the on the ground reality of what discrimination and obstacles are when they travel to the States (“YOU BUY! BUY!”)…I dont trust their judgement of what my wife and son need to be careful of in this world

    Its too bad, the Asian/American story is an important one and they have brought great info on that, but buying into anti interracial sex dogma, and making not too funny jokes , and allowing the personal traumas of their past , taint their view of interracial sex (funny Jefe being mixed, but, his life is traumatic, that cant be denied) just makes me have take what they say with a grain of salt,

    By buying into the anti interracial sex agenda, they are just drinking the bilge water of a great movement, like an enormous ship, it has its bilge water that gets drained off…but , some people drink it and it gets turned into an abheration…like Jim Crow, One Drop Rule and white racists saying Im a traitor to my race

    Like


  266. Iris, your post came in as I was typing, its not just me, I cant remember a statement on here by anyone saying interracial sex and mixed kids cures racism and colorism…

    yet people like Abagond in his post or other people keep saying it as though its our argument…it isnt

    Why is it an issue? its not the argument of those of us defending interracial sex

    And, not having interracial sex wont put one dent in racism…cmon

    not only that, Im not urging anyone poc to have sex with white people…

    they are differant issues based on one is a personal desician issue

    Like


  267. @ Iris

    Thank you and I appreciate your comment.

    Like


  268. @ Adonis

    I don’t know what part of my comment became confusing for you but let me take this time to clear it up for you (and sondis).

    “Young, fit, pretty, childless, solid relationship intangibles, sexually available.”—Their are plenty of women out there like this. Sorry if you have not run across much of them. Also I don’t really think you can say what most men want. You really don’t know most men to make such a judgement. And in fit if you mean body type I am really going to have to stop you their because I see more unfit women getting married than fit, so it goes to show it goes much deeper than that.

    “Women who have most of those qualities will never be overlooked by men.”—Wrong. Women who are all of these qualities are constantly overlooked by men. Besides the fact that I know quite a few like this..there are youtube videos to support and back that up as well. So it tells me it is not as simple as those things you listed for a woman to just snag up a man.

    “And instead of taking a hard look in the mirror & improving themselves, men are to blame for their dating woes.”—Not necessarily but men are a part of it (not all men). Looking at women as a meat purchase should be a problem. They should be valued as a partner and not a good cut of meat.

    “I know you are not into women like that, but you have to ask MEN what they like in women, not what you believe MEN should like in women”—Considering that I grew up under the arms of 4 uncles I have realized that each of them like different things. They don’t all like the same darn things in a woman. Which is expected as they are individuals.

    “Women evaluate men the same way. We are compared, and the very best available of us are chosen by women.”—Funny how you can speak for how women view men…I am a woman and in making the choice of my husband I did not compare him to anyone. WE dated and had fun….I liked him and he liked me. We got married…so simple.

    “You are not a victim, but really a volunteer.”—You know this how? In fact I would more call it a mutual love and understanding.🙂

    Like


  269. @ sondis

    If a person is really serious about a relationship then why in hell should their be a check list. That is probably why the d*mn divorce rates are so high. No substance in relationships.

    You are the main one advocating on this blog for black love and pitching fits because of photos or videos of interracial relationships, yet when pointed out part of the problem for why black love does not always workout you fly off into the men bashing corner.

    Sorry but men are part of the problem and I think women really just need to find love and a valuable relationship regardless of his color or status.

    Do women have things they need to work on? Oh yea but most of that is usually downside pretty quickly as women mature faster than men.🙂

    Like


  270. On top of that if said woman has a good man then he will help her work on whatever issues she has as he loves her for her.

    Like


  271. In regard to the Queen of spades tattoo. “Well Ms. Mary is clutching her pearls” talk about being reduced to the lowest common denominator, It is not only vile and disgusting, it is racist as hell. I am not surprised though, I learned something new today.

    Like


  272. @ Adonis

    I forgot to respond to this.

    “The problem @Sharina, we have women out here who are suffering under delusions of grandeur, where they think they are Cremé De La Cremé & they are really MEH De La MEH”—I agree with this but we also have men like this as well. Men who also need to reflect and take a look in the mirror and realize they are not the sh*t. These type of men (from my experience) then run and seek women of other races that will put up with their sh*t (which I think no woman of any race should have to). Might be another reason for the high divorce rates.

    Like


  273. Sondis,

    “^^ This is the main issue with women today, they don’t care to ask, what MEN look for and want in a woman.”

    Lol. wow. I rest my case.

    Like


  274. @adonis
    >But the complaints, usually come from black women who are MAD about a certain >TYPE of BLACK MALE, not giving in to their romantic demands.

    >And ALL black men have to take the blame for her entitled disposition.

    are you saying what i think you’re saying?

    Like


  275. ah man you did better with one article than i have with my whole blog so far

    Like


  276. i cant barely keep up with my news feed on fb much less twitter instagram tumblr blogging it’s just too much for me

    Like


  277. @Alicia
    I agree that certain black women bash black men but never so publicly,mostly among family or friends
    However we have a new breed of young men who bash black women encouraged by men in the media such ad Tommy sottomayor these men you will find are mostly ones that date out.

    Like


  278. “Sharina:

    You are the main one advocating on this blog for black love and pitching fits because of photos or videos of interracial relationships, yet when pointed out part of the problem for why black love does not always workout you fly off into the men bashing corner. ”

    I never pitched a fit for any photos or videos of interracial relationships, this is a outright lie.

    “when pointed out part of the problem for why black love does not always workout you fly off into the men bashing corner. ”

    This doesn’t even make any sense, why would i, a black man, fly off into the “man bashing corner” being that i am a man?

    My main message is that, the MAJORITY of white men, DO NOT value black women in relationships, other than purely sexual.

    My message isn’t that of being against, “interracial relationships” per say, that is Adeen’s message and not mine, which i personally don’t have a problem with her message but again, its not what i am trying to push or preach on this blog.

    I am more about bringing awareness to black people about white men and women, when it comes to them, courting us as sexual exploits, then throwing us in the trash, when they’re done with us.

    You know, having an agenda…..

    Its obvious that you aren’t able to differentiate between what i am saying and say someone like, Adeen.

    I never ONCE, make a statement, claiming i am against interracial relationships or even the effect it has on interracial children, that isn’t my thing as its been covered by others and that isn’t the message that i care to bring here.

    “Sorry but men are part of the problem and I think women really just need to find love and a valuable relationship regardless of his color or status.

    Do women have things they need to work on? Oh yea but most of that is usually downside pretty quickly as women mature faster than men”

    Its obvious that you’re biased against black men, in the above statements, you touch ever so lightly on black women’s part in all the issues that effect black relationships by saying, “Do black women have things they need to work on? Oh yea but”

    There’s always a “But”…. you give black women a pass but go in on black men.

    “most of that is usually downside pretty quickly as women mature faster than men”

    If this isn’t biased and pure garbage, i don’t know what is. you’re definitely biased and seem to hate black men.

    There seems to be a lot of your type of black women on this blog, they talk about loving their black men but constantly bash black men and all the while, dating white men offline. ( double agent for the white man )

    The black women that advocate, dating white men on this blog, obviously do and there in lies their agenda for backing it up.

    These type of black women, are double agents for the white man, you’re on a black blog, owned and ran by a black man for black people, advocating white on black love but me, a black man on a black blog advocating black on black love, COMES UNDER ATTACK!

    NOT WHITE ON BLACK LOVE!

    This is a clear and cut case of WHITE SUPREMACY! The majority of black women on this blog are in full fledged, participation of it and have the nerve to act “pro-black” and “loving their own people”

    Don’t be fooled by these double agents my brothas and sistas!

    I will acknowledge that there are black women and men on this blog that are TRULY pro-black and love their black women and men and would never tell a fellow brotha or sista to run into the arms of a whit person, that has no intention of loving them but using them for sexual gratification.

    Any black person, advocating white on black love over black on black love is a double agent, working for the white man under white supremacy.

    This is a tactic that been working for 100’s of years to get the black race, “mixed out” so our numbers will dwindle and its been working. The proof of this can be found by just looking at the various amount of black women on this blog, that will be quick to tell a black person to date a white person, than their own, beautiful black race of men and women.

    My message you Sharina and all the other black women like you on this blog is that i don’t care how much you try, how long you try and where you try it, you will always be contested by the likes of me, a black man that loves his black women and people. You will not easily white wash and brain wash other black people into loving a race of people that hate us and in essence, preaching against black on black love to black people.

    Like


  279. @ B.R.

    Ive tried to get people to go back and analyse the origins of this agenda, ive tried to have an in depth conversation about it, but, no one will address that

    Marcus Garvey was, perhaps, the oldest and most vocal anti-interracial sex Black activist to work in the States, however I think the roots of it all go back to the post-reconstruction South which declared the color-line absolute. The Southern Progressive movement developed Jim Crow to prevent interaction between Blacks and Whites for reasons we’d all find disgusting. This hard demarcation of race has made Blacks and Whites more than just races, which are social constructs, but ethnicities or nations which are mutually exclusive to one another and often define themselves by their antagonism with the Other. A major point of being Irish is in NOT being English. A major point of being Dominican is in NOT being Haitian, and as it so happens a major part of being White is in NOT being Black, and vise-versa. It’s no mistake that those who claim White Pride and Pro-Blackness are usually bigots.

    In contrast, Brazil sought to destroy Afro-Diasporic culture by “Race-whitening”. Their culture was suppressed while interracial sex was not only allowed, but encouraged as a means to breed out the “degenerate” African stock. Race doesn’t work in Brazil the same way it does in the US; instead of a hard, absolute line between Black and White, there is a gradualism of complexion, oppression, and identity.

    Like


  280. The Asian male resentment theme has gotten old for me.

    I’ve dated all races, but prefer NE Asian. That makes me Satan incarnate I guess.

    But don’t think for a minute most of those women would not have dated an Asian men. The vast majority had and would. It’s their own race for crying our loud. Why wouldn’t they find men who look like their fathers and brothers attractive, provided those men were attractive? And no, it isn’t due to “Hollywood Brainwashing” that these women like the men they like. Athletic men who meet womens’ height standard are what they desire. You can’t struggle with women because you’re 5’6″ then turn around and blame it in evil whitey imperialism.

    And for the record. There is anti- white male persecution in some Asian countries- particularly Korea, which is known as the empire of cockblocking.

    You’ll catch a little of it in Japan too. Certainly more than you’d get here for the reverse, as most people of any race are not usually open with their disdain as it makes them look like asses.

    Damn white male sexuality is the obsession isn’t it? Like B.R. said the opinions expressed on here are mixed up as hell about what white males truly want.

    Like


  281. on Sun 13 Oct 2013 at 21:55:14 Pay It Forward

    D writes:

    “It’s no mistake that those who claim White Pride and Pro-Blackness are usually bigots.”
    _ _ _

    Yes, so I’ve noticed!

    Like


  282. @sharina

    You are a great sport. Let’s play hide & get it.

    Adonis

    I don’t know what part of my comment became confusing for you but let me take this time to clear it up for you (and sondis).

    I did not misunderstand your comment. I have been in countless on-line & off-line conversations with black women & I have a very good feel where y’all are coming from.

    Let us keep it one million, the black women on-line who preach that fake black nationalism (no disrespect to those who are for real) & play the “loyal” card, are older, fatter, uglier, kids in tow, looking to be saved by a unsuspecting simpish black male. And those black men are wising up, as the Internet continues to increase in influence.

    “Young, fit, pretty, childless, solid relationship intangibles, sexually available.”—Their are plenty of women out there like this.

    Yes, NON-BLACK WOMEN (Excluding Native African Women)

    Sorry if you have not run across much of them. Also I don’t really think you can say what most men want. You really don’t know most men to make such a judgement.

    Well, ask yourself this, @Sharina, because you are being dense & you won’t get off your fantasy island.

    Give the average man a MILLION dollars, a Mercedes Benz S-Class car, & a nice home, and I promise you that he will not pick a woman who is

    FAT,
    have pre-existing children
    Old
    Ugly
    And with poor feminine relationship intangibles

    You are CONFUSING what MEN WANT in a woman, with what MEN can reasonably get based on their sexual market value

    Physical Looks
    Personality (Strong Social Skills)
    Finances/Social Standing
    Seckual Intercourse intangibles

    And in fit if you mean body type I am really going to have to stop you their because I see more unfit women getting married than fit, so it goes to show it goes much deeper than that.

    These unfit women are not dating top shelf men. And when it comes to FATHERLESS BLACK MEN, these kinds of men are more likely to date down, and put up with more from subpar women.

    As far as FIT women not getting chose. A lot of these women don’t want to get married until they are UNFIT (old & fat) & have unreasonable standards in men.

    “Women who have most of those qualities will never be overlooked by men.”—Wrong. Women who are all of these qualities are constantly overlooked by men.

    Flag on the play. @Sharina

    What do men value in women?

    Just because you think these women are all that, the men around them, think differently.

    The most likely case is that, these women are not getting the kinds of men that they want.

    But they are being approached by the men the DON’T want in spades.

    They DO NOT APPROACH MEN.

    They focus on their education & they have a busy life & DO NOT PRIORITIZE DATING

    They are NO WOMEN, who are IN DEMAND by MEN, and they want a relationship, but are SINGLE.

    If I have one conversation with one of those women you know, their flaws would be exposed quickly.

    Besides the fact that I know quite a few like this..there are youtube videos to support and back that up as well. So it tells me it is not as simple as those things you listed for a woman to just snag up a man.

    Well in 2013, if people want to have a successful romantic life, they have to put the time & effort in.

    Women unreasonably expect men to do the heavy lifting when it comes to men & women romantically getting together.

    “And instead of taking a hard look in the mirror & improving themselves, men are to blame for their dating woes.”—Not necessarily but men are a part of it (not all men).

    Outside of seckual assault @sharina, YOU CHOOSE THE KIND OF MEN YOU ALLOW INTO YOUR LIFE.

    If you are in an environment with subpar men, MOVE. Very simple

    Men are not the problem, on why you & other black women are suffering.

    Too many men on this earth for that lie.

    Looking at women as a meat purchase should be a problem. They should be valued as a partner and not a good cut of meat.

    That is what low-value people say.

    But the fact that you turn some MEN down romantically & accept a few to sleep with you in your lifetime @Sharina, proves that you value some men romantically more than others.

    It just “wrong” when the MEN YOU WANT, don’t want YOU.

    “I know you are not into women like that, but you have to ask MEN what they like in women, not what you believe MEN should like in women”—Considering that I grew up under the arms of 4 uncles I have realized that each of them like different things. They don’t all like the same darn things in a woman. Which is expected as they are individuals.

    Give your uncles some money & resources, I promise you the women they check for fall in line with my checklist above.

    “Women evaluate men the same way. We are compared, and the very best available of us are chosen by women.”—Funny how you can speak for how women view men…I am a woman and in making the choice of my husband I did not compare him to anyone. WE dated and had fun….I liked him and he liked me. We got married…so simple.

    You used your uncle, your girlfriends & your husband as examples. Not great samples.

    Your husband was the best available attractive dude that was willing to commit. End. Of.

    “You are not a victim, but really a volunteer.”—You know this how? In fact I would more call it a mutual love and understanding.🙂

    Just reminding women that they have to take responsibility for their choices in life & scapegoat men who have nothing to do with their situation.

    Good day @Sharina

    Like


  283. on Sun 13 Oct 2013 at 22:17:13 Pay It Forward

    “Race-whitening”.

    _ _ _

    Or mejorar la raza (“improving the race”) in certain Hispanophone countries.

    “And where is your grandmother…?” is another phrase (in Spanish of course) used in certain Latin American countries to hint at the pervasive attempts among ‘white’ Latinos to hide or to eradicate visible African ancestry (i.e., the black grandmother is typically hidden from view -.in the kitchen or closet – on certain occasions where company is expected).

    Like


  284. @King…“I am selfish in love, I do not love out of some strange commitment to my ethnicity. I love because the chemistry in my brain sets off my heart and I feel passion.”

    Yes-s-s-s-s!

    Like


  285. @ Adonis
    “I did not misunderstand your comment. I have been in countless on-line & off-line conversations with black women & I have a very good feel where y’all are coming from.”—Considering each one is different I doubt you have enough understanding of where we are coming from. Even in this room alone not all women are coming from the same place.
    “Let us keep it one million, the black women on-line who preach that fake black nationalism (no disrespect to those who are for real) & play the “loyal” card, are older, fatter, uglier, kids in tow, looking to be saved by a unsuspecting simpish black male.”—Sorry but I am going to have to disagree. Not all of them are. In fact considering that they are online I have a hard time picturing anyone on here knowing how they look or what they have going on in their life.
    “Yes, NON-BLACK WOMEN”—Wrong again. Maybe where you life that might actually be true but that is not actually the truth of what I have seen in the black women in my area or in other areas I have been in through my travels. So the question is what are you basing this misinformation on?
    “Well, ask yourself this, @Sharina, because you are being dense & you won’t get off your fantasy island.”—If I am in a fantasy land then I guess you are sitting right beside me because I have a black fat female friend who works for Mercedes Benz Corporation and has been chosen by quite a few men…one which was Nigerian and willing to drop any and everything for her. So I guess your theory is a bit lacking.
    “These unfit women are not dating top shelf men.”—See above information on friend (so proud of her by the way).
    “A lot of these women don’t want to get married until they are UNFIT (old & fat) & have unreasonable standards in men.”—I don’t think you should go so far as to say a lot.
    “What do men value in women?”—Can’t answer for what men value in women. I can only answer for what my husband values in me.
    “Just because you think these women are all that, the men around them, think differently.”—Based on your criteria these women should have “kneegrows” lined up around the block. Right? So why it now a matter of what I might or might not think of them?
    “The most likely case is that, these women are not getting the kinds of men that they want”—I will remember to ask them what they want, but the issue or claim you made was that based on the criteria you put forth they should be presented with plenty of men. They aren’t and it is not always the case no matter how valuable they are. Things are much deeper than simply that. The remainder of what you said is just deflection and I will not give it anymore attention than that.
    “Men are not the problem, on why you & other black women are suffering.”—Considering the fact that I am happily married I am confused on where you get the idea that I am suffering. Oh is this the part where you paint me as the angry black woman with low value and such to denounce my credibility?

    “Give your uncles some money & resources, I promise you the women they check for fall in line with my checklist above. “ —Actually my uncles own their own business. The one who started it built his own house recently and they all seem to be living quite nicely. Yet each have chosen based on their own value of the women they are with.

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  286. @ Adonis

    “You used your uncle, your girlfriends & your husband as examples. Not great samples.”—Perfect for displaying that their is no road map with checklist to these situations.

    “Your husband was the best available attractive dude that was willing to commit. End. Of.”—Ummm no. If you were here long enough to hear my story you would know my husband and I journey was a very long one as he was not the only suitor at the time (I guess desperate personal attacks is what you got going for you so….) among other things. I just make the choice in my life not to choose a man based petty things that will mean absolutely nothing in the long wrong.

    “Just reminding women that they have to take responsibility for their choices in life & scapegoat men who have nothing to do with their situation.”—Yet you have failed to show where I have used men as a scapegoat in my post. So as you continue to misunderstand my post rest assured you have displayed the very reason you have the angry black women who have spoken out on these issues in the way they have.🙂

    Like


  287. sondis said:
    >You will not easily white wash and brain wash other black people into loving a race >of people that hate us and in essence, preaching against black on black love to >black people in essence, preaching against black on black love to black people.

    i’m not about telling anyone whom to see

    Like


  288. @ Asplund

    Just saw this comment and debated on if it was worth responding to which it mainly was not, but hey what the heck I’m bored.

    “No- If you had even the most basic logic at your disposal you’d see that that very definition- intolerance, is exactly what I’m talking about. Bigots lack tolerance of others. Bigots show intolerance. Bigots are intolerant of interracial marriages. Jesus Christ it’s that fucking simple. Goddamn.”—You claimed discrimination as the definition of bigotry. So now on another thread you are backtracking on the definition and trying to claim it as something else. So you lack no logic skills…just the ability to weasel your way out of the bs you keep throwing out there.

    “It proves that it is completely unnecessary to know every thought and life experience a bigot has had to call someone a bigot. Holding a bigoted position is in itself justification for calling someone a bigot.”—What does that have to do with your premise? You made the claim that people against interracial relationships are bigots, but if you don’t have a clue why they feel that way then how in hell can you claim them to be a bigot. Bigoted positions vary from one person to the next. I have thus concluded you a bigot (I am sure you will say you are not).

    “Sharina I don’t get what I haven’t demonstrated?”—That is funny considering I copied and pasted it for you several times now (granted abagond did delete one for being off topic).

    1. “You can walk into any university, government building, and most churches in this country and 99% of the people inside would be horrified at the thought of prohibiting interracial relationships”—You need to prove this number as true.

    2. People against interracial marriages are bigots (something you still have not proved).

    “A. Discriminating against someone based on race is bigoted behavior.”—That is great. Don’t see where I disagreed with that, but that does not prove that because a person is against interracial marriages that they are then bigots. So fail. You are trying to make a square peg fit in a round hole.

    “B. Intolerance of interracial marriage is discrimination because you are against a person loving another person based on race/ethnicity/religion, etc. therefore those opposed to interracial relationships are bigots.”—Another stretch on your part. Like I said before people are against the relationships for several reasons and not all of them have to do with the race, ethnicity, or religion of the person.

    Had you read what I said in the other threads then you could have saved a lot of typing of simply repeats.

    “Sharina the fact that the supreme court made the ruling it did, the fact that not one state in the union has been able to maintain its laws against irr is proof that the vast majority of people, or at least the vast majority of those with power, oppose prohibiting interracial relationships. Jesus.”—That is great but what percentage is the vast majority of people in power? Heck how many laws ruled by the supreme court has been changed or anyone attempted to really change? So that proves about nothing in your premise. This is the real issue here…what exactly does a judge saying “ok interracial relationships are equal” have to do with your idea that because a person is against it they are a bigot (you have yet to quote from the case where the judge said in his words it was such)

    “Sharina, you completely (and intentionally) ignored my proof of this concept. I showed you the one example of a public figure who opposed irr”—So now one source speaks for the “vast majority?” One source tells how the “vast majority” thinks and feels? So this is the kind of logic you speak of? Then it is official. I speak for all black people…my opinions represent the vast majority.

    “If this discussion is going to go anywhere, you have to have advanced past the first grade.”—Unfortunately for you I advanced well past the 12th. So I will dumb myself down in the next exchange so that you can keep up.

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  289. boo on comment in moderation for asplund.

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  290. @ Asplund

    “Let me prove what I said, indisputably (to those willing to listen):”—Look who is worried about what people will think or see. Was it not on another thread you projected such behavior on me….hmmmm

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  291. Sharina –

    What?

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  292. D , thanks for your comment, and first off, I agree, the first anti interracial people are the white racists…they invented this…Id understand more if people just said they were playing tit for tat…

    Marcus Garvey…yes, good call, and I guess you would have to include Nation of Islam, at that time, “The Black Muslims” of Eligah Mohammed, they may have changed their policy

    For me, the major origin of the anti interracial stance, from a black activist standpoint , that affects the diologue and rhetoric into today, came in the late 60’s,at least became more public, there was also the Fannon/Freud group , that went into the psycho analysis/ political angle, the forerunner of the psycho/political rhetoric analysis you see on here , even…

    what I keep saying is, there were other agendas at the same time, of course in a huge movement, that had tremendous struggle , and aceived great things in american history ,but there were other agendas that were not well thought out , and beg to be tweaked, rethought, or out right jetisoned

    this was the time also where , some of the activists decided to mandate that whites should be kicked out of the movement

    but, the armstrong agenda was totaly cruel and a low blow to one of black americas greatest innovators, who changed the world of music…only great people like Wynton and Branford Marsalis helped bring back the great respect Armstrong deserved, the people who pushed the crap never recanted

    Tap dancing has never recovered the respect for its great artistry that it deserves…

    The point being, these were obvious flawed agendas , and its obvious that putting unreal mandates on people telling them who they can and can not have a relationship with, puts enormous false preasure on both the men and women, and, the fall out and damage because of this political agenda , is sad, huge, dangerous , deviding and damaging beyond beleif…I didnt hardly participate on the BWE thread and it was huge huge huge…anti interracial sex debates are the hottest contested threads by a long shot

    If no one interracialy dated, it wouldnt stop white racism at all…yet, this flawed agenda gets the lions share of attention, with celebrity gossip as the center peice…no wonder its more popular than black american jazz history

    All this wasted deviding energy from a flawed political agenda

    The truth about Brazil is, this “whitening” agenda was nowhere in sight when I got there in 86, and was farther back in Brazil history..personaly, I dont think it was a strong government push…they more encouraged European immigration , and, the TV did more damage to put white people at center stage than anything before that…

    And, here is the real deal, the greater mixture, only means the brown results are just marganilised with the black Brazilians…if you go to travel gates in airports in major cities like Rio and Sao Paulo, the people waiting for flights are phenotype white…most Iniversity students before quotas were phenotype white,most polititions could get into the KKK…and if you look at the huge numbwer of photographs of the people killed or missing trying to have an armed revolution against the Dictatorship, they are overwelmingly phenotype white…the media , even with quotas is overwelmingly phenotype white

    In Northern and North East cities, there are more brwon and black people in hugher places, since they are the majority of the population, but , still, the elites are more phenotype white

    Whitening doesnt play out how you expect…but, with a similar racist dynamic as the states, there is no black activist position what so ever about who black Brazilians should sleep with…which really proves this is a political agenda and not an automatic universal black position about sleeping with whites is like sleeping with the oppressor orf the enemy..it should be jetisoned,

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  293. @ B. R.

    I found out a while ago that Louis Farrakhan gave a speech at UC Berkeley about racism. During the speech, he criticized Chinese-Americans for not participating enough in anti-racist movements (and I agree 100% with his criticism) but then he insulted my race when he started say “ching lee choo!” But you what? White people are the only ones who’ve said “ching chong” to me, following me around and ridiculing me. White people are the ones applying quotas against Asians at top schools, which has impacted my life. White people are the ones discriminating against Asians in the workplace, paying us less and leaving us with higher unemployment. That has affected my own family and friends and I’m next. When I pass by Asian female/white male couples, it’s the Asian female who gives me the snobby/better-than-thou looks. When I was younger, in front of the mirror, pulling and bending my facial features, I was trying to look white, not black. And I sure as hell know that black people did NOT invent “ching chong”. Sure, I’ve met plenty of black people who did not like Asians, but they seemed more wary, not hostile, like white people are. Louis Farrakhan did not come across to me as a black supremacist. He sounded just like a condescending white male, as quite a few whitewashed people on this blog have sounded like, too.

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  294. *started saying

    *you know what?

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  295. @B.R.

    I should have prefaced my paragraph on Brazil with “or so I’ve read”. I’m still learning about African-American history, let alone Brazilian history, so If I’m wrong about something in Brazil feel free to correct me.

    The point being, these were obvious flawed agendas , and its obvious that putting unreal mandates on people telling them who they can and can not have a relationship with, puts enormous false preasure on both the men and women, and, the fall out and damage because of this political agenda , is sad, huge, dangerous , deviding and damaging beyond beleif…I didnt hardly participate on the BWE thread and it was huge huge huge…anti interracial sex debates are the hottest contested threads by a long shot

    It hurts the children of such unions more than anything else.
    (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eKbGDwN2N0&noredirect=1)

    If no one interracialy dated, it wouldnt stop white racism at all…yet, this flawed agenda gets the lions share of attention, with celebrity gossip as the center peice…no wonder its more popular than black american jazz history

    One rationale is all about power. The idea is that if Oppression is bigotry+power, one could either attack the bigotry or answer power with power. A larger “pure” Black population would be beneficial to that end (especially if you’re having fever dreams of a Race War), while multiracial people would have conflicting loyalties (bleh!).

    I can empathize somewhat. “Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will.” I lean slightly more towards T. Washington and his disciples than towards Dubois, except on the matter of appeasement. I do believe that we must enrich and invest in our intra-racial networks, and that we cannot hope that White America will stop being racist and honor our rights on good faith alone. However, I won’t stand between two people that love each other, whomever or whatever they are, and I despise people that would personally and on principle.

    Whitening doesnt play out how you expect…but, with a similar racist dynamic as the states, there is no black activist position what so ever about who black Brazilians should sleep with…which really proves this is a political agenda and not an automatic universal black position about sleeping with whites is like sleeping with the oppressor orf the enemy..it should be jetisoned

    It’s an American/Western European eugenics position. While we are a distinct ethnicity, America, and the West more generally, still shapes who we are and how we think. We simply appropriate their ideas for ourselves, sometimes for the better: “What is the Fourth of July to the Negro”, sometimes for the worse. Unfortunately, ideas are almost impossible to kill.

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  296. Kiwi-

    I’ve never heard a white person use an ethnic slur against an Asian. That doesn’t mean they don’t happen. It’s just anecdotal. I’ve witnessed multiple instances of black in Asian hostility, and MANY of the reverse.

    Again there are whites who look down on Asians. At the same time I don’t think any of the “political” issues ate really driving anger, because Asians in general match whites in economic terms.

    The issue is anger over interracial relationships. Those are going to happen whether we like it or not.

    For the Asian guys I’ve known, plenty got dates. I am always alarmed at just how much anger there is among Asian men over irr. Tons of Asian guys get white girls.

    Too often, personal defects are masked by political sentiment. I’m not saying you are doing this, but there have been a number of Asian guys ice known complaining about irr when the problem was they were 5’6″, not that they were Asian. Same with black women who are older/ obese. These are individual flaws not racial.

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  297. @ Asplund

    For the Asian guys I’ve known, plenty got dates. I am always alarmed at just how much anger there is among Asian men over irr. Tons of Asian guys get white girls.

    I know. Some of my Asian male friends only date white girls. It’s sad. So many Asians (both men and women) seek white people’s approval and need to date one in order to feel secure about themselves. What’s so special about white people?

    but there have been a number of Asian guys ice known complaining about irr when the problem was they were 5’6″, not that they were Asian.

    abagond has posted about an OkCupid survey that found that even adjusting for height, white women were less attracted to Asian men. As a 6’2″ Asian male, I can attest that white women generally disregard Asian men. And no, I am not ugly. I have noticed, however, that race does not exist for children until about the age 7-9. Before that age, there was a handful of white girls who would chase me around, kissing me. One girl who liked Barbies kept calling me Ken for like 2 years. But after kids become race-conscious *poof*, it’s like Asian guys are not even seen as men anymore. A group of white girls even jeered at me like in one photo that abagond uploaded, showing a group of white boys jeering at a black girl. This is not to say 0 white women are attracted to me. But when I do encounter them, I suspect they just see me as exotic. I’ve heard that many white women who do date Asian guys say “I’ll never date an Asian again!” if they get in one failed relationship. I’ve even heard about white women who think their Asian boyfriend should be “grateful” that she considered him. Just, wow. White women being paternalistic.

    In any case, I am not angry about white women. I don’t care about them. I’m angry that Asian men are stereotyped by them, white men, and even Asian women and half Asians. Blacks apply the stereotype, too, but it’s not like they invented it.

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  298. Looks to me that lot of discussion is actually about male/female dynamics and feminist/patriarchal issues and that race is only one aspect of those wider issues.

    I do not care who you are, what you are, where you are from, what is your skin color, religion, culture or what language you speak. If you love someone, you love someone for what ever that someone is.

    I understand some of the race issues, but if you go around picking your possible companion based on her/his “race” you are stone cold racist yourself, regardless of your own color. And I repeat it so that there is no confusion or misunderstanding: if you choose your companion simply on racial bases you are a racist yourself.

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  299. @Dave

    Wow Jefe! That tells me alot about you. People have sex with people sometimes for the wrong reasons.. but who are you to judge that. You can’t. If a white guy said what you just did about white women dating black men he probably would be banned. So because there were and are some white bigots that probably can’t get their own girlfriends, that lynched people that means you are going to do the same thing. Rediculous. You lost all credibility with me.

    I think you might have a reading problem. You seriously don’t believe that I even remotely advocate any of that in the slightest. Of course I would not in the slightest consider that.

    It was more like a thought experiment similar to Abagond’s Chinese Invasion thought experiment. Some of the commenters on that post thought he was serious and responded accordingly.

    The fact that you thought I might even contemplate that caused you to lose all credibility with me (not that most of it was considerably lost already). The fact that you think I would think like that tells me a lot about YOU!😛

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  300. Its obvious its a joke , Jefe, very obvious..its just a mean spirited thought experiment…its funny you would say that in referance to white men dating Asian women, not white racist men who do hate Asians (not that there cant be a white man with an asian woman and be racist, that never was my point, my point is you cant judge people you dont even know…maybe that Asian woman feels your stare and is shooting her defences back at you)

    Ill say it again, you, Jefe, and Kiwi, bring valuable information to the table about white racism in America against Asians, and the huge absence of the Asian story..and I like how you put it as “our story”, Jefe…but , when you start breaking it down to judging people you dont even know, for who they are dating, then you left good sence behind

    And, Jefe, i listened to you a long time , listened to your personal story, listened to your history informative breakdfowns, but , when you start shifting into the “its POC against white people and white people and thwe West are the most violent rithless people in all history..’, then we are going to break it down and that is why , after maybe a thousand posts about how really horrible america is, and that it is the cesspool of evilness in human history, its a good idea to racalibrate to reality and remember that just in my life time, you have 20 million killed in the Red Cultural Revolution, 30 million starved in maos marxist back to the feilds campain, 6 million eliminated by the Khmer rouge in Cambodia , and the state of living in North Korrea, it just is a pristine example killing two birdes with one stone in my lifetime, communism is horrible, and Asians have as much capacity to destroy and eliminate people as anyone else…see i dont buy the arab Trader argument or you cant pull back and get some total perspective about the real truth , in the whole world as we bash America …Ive seen far too many people where I live make america the boogy man and not acknowledge these horrible things in my lifetime

    And again, I dont implicate Asians, I say they are part of the human condition and these horrible acts were done by people who just happen to be Asian…it implicates humanity not Asians

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  301. Sharina, Linda and Peanut, it would be a priviledge and honor to fight against white racism with you all , you have been some of the staunchest voices against white racism…you, and others, dont deserve to be raked under the coals

    D, thanks for answering again the subjects Im trying to disscuss

    I always thought of Brazil as the same as the USA, colonised by the Portuguese , brought slaves from Africa, destroyed the Indians ,black African culture is destroyed , but, comes back to dominate the culture and the white elite dictate the dynamic in politics and the media and it is under Western thought…in fact, its a tremendous education for me to be in a place that is so close to the USA in racial dynamic…it points out the similarities and differances…which is why I see parralel truths , which are the ones I call the universal truths of how racism plays out in the Americas with slavery, and then the differances, like there is no agenda to tell people, from the black activist side, who they can or cant date

    D, where I totaly agree with you, the solution to fighting white racism is developing education, building black businesses , supporting them, I might add, understanding the real black history and the story of cultural anialation and how that plays out in the media now,and understanding black struggles against white racism in other countries and their particular story and how it plays out

    I dont agree that eliminating people from the process is benificial, including eliminating white people….the more mixed people are included and the white people who do see the racism and are against it also, then it can only get stronger

    but it is seriously imperative that these other voices understand black culture and the specific needs and opressions black culture is subjected to…just being against white racism but not understanding black culture doesnt cut it..its not about being color blind and we are all one , or we all have to act the same bland way

    Making it only if you are pure black game, only makes the voices smaller, the defence smaller, and, unfortunatly, as you see on here, it doesnt play out on the ground…you eliminate other people and then infighting just starts happening…and, I am sad to see black men and women going at each other over this interracial question…I would prefer to not see that than whether tap dancing or Armstrong are accepte…but that was totaly jive to throw them under the bus….totaly

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  302. @ Asplund

    Excuse me for butting into this conversation, but you said something that I would like to address on a serious note.

    “I’m not saying you are doing this, but there have been a number of Asian guys ice known complaining about irr when the problem was they were 5’6″, not that they were Asian. Same with black women who are older/ obese. These are individual flaws not racial.”—I agree that what you mentioned is individuals flaws but see how quick you turned them into racial ones. Those are flaws that anyone at any point in time could have.

    On another note my Chinese friend is married to a white man shorter than she is, but she loves him and he loves her. My mixed mother is on the obese side, but always ends up dating or marrying fit black men. It tells me that what people considering flaws are only flaws in their eyes.

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  303. @Asplund

    what’s wrong with being 5’6″? My social life is quite successful.

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  304. Tell me, people,

    Why is it when a Black woman or other POC critique IRs and talk about the history and double standards/privilege surrounding such relationships, we get labelled as “racists”, “reverse racists”, are are told to “get over it!?”

    It’s sad that people want other voices to be silent because it doesn’t fit with their stereotypical, or white privilege viewpoint. They don’t want to be reminded of the painful history surrounding IRs between whites and POC, nor do they want to hear about Black and other POC unity because it interferes with their racial sexual privilege. They especially do this to Sistas more so than any other group.

    That’s my two cents on the matter.

    Stephanie B.

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  305. I’ve heard that many white women who do date Asian guys say “I’ll never date an Asian again!”

    Kiwi, statistically, white women do not last as long as non-white women in interracial unions.

    I think Peanut may have implied this earlier in one of her responses…

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  306. @B.R.

    I always thought of Brazil as the same as the USA, colonised by the Portuguese , brought slaves from Africa, destroyed the Indians ,black African culture is destroyed , but, comes back to dominate the culture and the white elite dictate the dynamic in politics and the media and it is under Western thought…in fact, its a tremendous education for me to be in a place that is so close to the USA in racial dynamic…it points out the similarities and differances…which is why I see parralel truths , which are the ones I call the universal truths of how racism plays out in the Americas with slavery, and then the differances, like there is no agenda to tell people, from the black activist side, who they can or cant date

    While racism and White Supremacy play out in America and Brazil in a very similar manner, I think there is a huge difference between how Afro-Brazilians and Afro-Americans responded to that racism. Contrary to pro-Black lamentations of disunity, we have a long legacy of Black-consciousness and pro-active cooperation in academics, politics, the arts, and the sciences that is about a century or more in the making. We didn’t simply recover our culture, we created something novel. It’s both a blessing and a curse; the Civil Rights movement could never have happened otherwise, but because the maturation of this legacy coincided with the Eugenics movement and the rise of Fascism, we’re going to be stuck with this kind of mess for a very long time. Dubois and Garvey, two fathers of 20th century Black political thought, were Eugenicists, and the latter was a Fascist. From what I understand, Afro-Brazilians have only began to develop a similar legacy in the 1970s. Where this Afro-Brazilian consciousness leads is still to be seen.

    I dont agree that eliminating people from the process is benificial, including eliminating white people….the more mixed people are included and the white people who do see the racism and are against it also, then it can only get stronger

    I was explaining at least one rationale of anti-interracial Black activists, not my own, sorry for not making that more clear. I wouldn’t turn away anyone wanting to help. I just don’t believe that White Supremacy can be defeated solely by having Tim Wise, or anyone for that matter, lecture to the choir. It’s going to take economic empowerment and political savvy to slay this beast.

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  307. @ Sondis

    “I never pitched a fit for any photos or videos of interracial relationships, this is a outright lie.”—Nice how you forgot the situation with Linda.

    “This doesn’t even make any sense, why would i, a black man, fly off into the “man bashing corner” being that i am a man?”—Then I will clarify. You are all for black love in ten fold until anyone in here point to men as the problem in regards to why black love fall apart. At that moment you are the first to run to the corner of men bashing meaning the corner that claims women are bashing men rather than simply pointing out flaws in some black men.

    “My main message is that, the MAJORITY of white men, DO NOT value black women in relationships, other than purely sexual.”—Don’t care and I don’t really see where in my statement I made a hint at wanting to address this.
    “Its obvious that you aren’t able to differentiate between what i am saying and say someone like, Adeen.”—Oh I can differentiate quite well and it is quite telling how you are ready to throw her under the bus at first chance you get.

    “I never ONCE, make a statement, claiming i am against interracial relationships or even the effect it has on interracial children, that isn’t my thing as its been covered by others and that isn’t the message that i care to bring here.”—Really…I think there are several threads on here that I can pull up to prove otherwise. You know your own words is what hurt you. You might want to get a head start on asking Abagond to delete them before I find them.

    “There’s always a “But”…. you give black women a pass but go in on black men.”—Do me a favor and read what comes after the but. Oh and find one post where I have ever and I mean ever went in on black men.

    “If this isn’t biased and pure garbage, i don’t know what is. you’re definitely biased and seem to hate black men.”—If this isn’t delusion I don’t know what is. Where does this statement single out black men? It would be more accurate if you said I have a bias against men.

    “There seems to be a lot of your type of black women on this blog, they talk about loving their black men but constantly bash black men and all the while, dating white men offline. ( double agent for the white man )”—Nope I just call a spade a spade and I refuse to give all black men the thumbs up for what some black men do well at. Sorry but all black men do not deserve to ride on the achievements of the ones who have achieved. My husband is Hispanic. I have never referred to him or seen him as a white male.

    As for the rest of what you said…good to know. I DON’T CARE.🙂

    Like


  308. @ sam

    Very well said and I agree.

    Like


  309. @BR

    when you start shifting into the “its POC against white people and white people and thwe West are the most violent rithless people in all history..’

    Since when did I ever do that? There is no way that I would espouse that belief.

    I say they are part of the human condition and these horrible acts were done by people who just happen to be Asian…it implicates humanity not Asians

    Agree with you there.

    I never once implicated that Asians have not done horrific acts against other Asians and against non-Asians. I never implicated that the “west” or America is the main or only boogeyman. Of course they are not uniquely evil.

    When we mention about slavery, massacres and genocides (or just plain vanilla racist violence) in the USA, there was never any implication that it did not happen elsewhere, even perhaps on a bigger scale, or that we do not need to condemn horrific atrocities whenever or wherever they occur.

    The point is this – if we mention a massacre that occurred somewhere at some point in time, why bring up another massacre that occurred elsewhere at some other point in time by a different group of people? Is the point supposed to make the first incident less serious, less horrific, less impactful? Never was the purpose of mentioning the first incident to imply that the perpetrators of that incident were uniquely evil, or that similar or worse evils did not exist elsewhere.

    However, by bringing up all sorts of other incidents in response to a mention of the first incident, unless there was some insight gleaned from the other incident (besides noting that humans all of the world in all time periods could commit crimes against humanity), the mention of the first incident gets derailed. There seems no other purpose other than to derail (as we all know that other humans can also be evil).

    To give you an example. Suppose we wanted to make a statement about the extent of the deaths attributable to the social policies of the Great Leap Forward, but then brought up an example of how people were deliberately killed in lynchings and genocide in the USA in the 19th and 20th centuries, wouldn’t that be derailing the points you would be trying to make about the Great Leap Forward policies?

    AND, I never judged about who people are dating. I have no problem with anyone dating anyone else. Are you confusing me with someone else? I never made any comment about who people should date.

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  310. @sam eh… why do you consider those of us who date out racist

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  311. But I am stil waiting for Kiwi to explain to me why he brought up several examples of his Hapa cousins or acquaintances that were specifically addressed to me — is he looking for an explanation from me, or just validation of his experience?? Or should I just acknowledge how, in the process of becoming whitewashed, some people feel compelled to perform certain behaviors that can be demeaning to others.

    How would Kiwi feel if a Hapa or Eurasian told him that he acted or thought in a very “white” way? In other words, not bashing him for being Asian but remarking how whitewashed or westernized he seems.

    Like


  312. @sam admittedly a lot of the black women whom i have dated have been black+ in terms of their dating preferences, i don’t even know if only one or two at all had an object preference for white men, granted, but why is that different if i just prefer black women? i don’t get it

    Like


  313. trojanpam been said that too i told her i didn’t get it then either no good effin reply just throwin that one out there on the table, yo

    Like


  314. @ v8driver

    I don’t really think it is a problem with preference (atleast for me) but I will say that love can come from the most odd places.

    Like


  315. Sharina:

    @ Sondis

    “I never pitched a fit for any photos or videos of interracial relationships, this is a outright lie.”—Nice how you forgot the situation with Linda.”

    You’re obviously twisting my words on why i was objecting, it had nothing to do with videos and pictures, nice try and trying to derail but you failed miserably.

    “This doesn’t even make any sense, why would i, a black man, fly off into the “man bashing corner” being that i am a man?”—Then I will clarify. You are all for black love in ten fold until anyone in here point to men as the problem in regards to why black love fall apart. At that moment you are the first to run to the corner of men bashing meaning the corner that claims women are bashing men rather than simply pointing out flaws in some black men.”

    This is an outright lie!!

    I never got upset about black women, pointing out flaws in back men, its always black women that get upset when black men, point out flaws in them.

    ““My main message is that, the MAJORITY of white men, DO NOT value black women in relationships, other than purely sexual.”—Don’t care and I don’t really see where in my statement I made a hint at wanting to address this.”

    Of coarse you don’t care, you’re a double agent black woman, working for the white man, trying to convince black people to date with people on a black blog.

    “Oh I can differentiate quite well and it is quite telling how you are ready to throw her under the bus at first chance you get.”

    Nice try DOUBLE AGENT black woman…to attempt to try and pit Adeen against me!

    This is typical of black women like you, to always try to make it where a black man is trying to attack another black woman on this blog, so you can garner support from all other black women!

    There is another black women on this blog that did the very same thing!

    My quote from post about about Adeen’s message on this blog:

    Sondis:

    “My message isn’t that of being against, “interracial relationships” per say, that is Adeen’s message and not mine, which i personally don’t have a problem with her message but again, its not what i am trying to push or preach on this blog.”

    “which i personally don’t have a problem with her message”

    where am i throwing Adeen under the bus???

    “but again, its not what i am trying to push or preach on this blog.”

    AGAIN, where?

    Nice try but again, you failed miserably.

    “I never ONCE, make a statement, claiming i am against interracial relationships or even the effect it has on interracial children, that isn’t my thing as its been covered by others and that isn’t the message that i care to bring here.”—Really…I think there are several threads on here that I can pull up to prove otherwise. You know your own words is what hurt you. You might want to get a head start on asking Abagond to delete them before I find them.”

    I back peddle on nothing i say! I may comment on other issues but that doesn’t mean that is the core of the message i bring, far as interracial dating, between white and black people. So feel free to look up my previous posts, you won’t find anything, incriminating.

    “Do me a favor and read what comes after the but. Oh and find one post where I have ever and I mean ever went in on black men.”

    You’re going in on me AND idonis

    “If this isn’t delusion I don’t know what is. Where does this statement single out black men? It would be more accurate if you said I have a bias against men.”

    The oddity of this statement is that, you didn’t even argue the fact that you’re a black man hater, only the semantics of how i should have said you were a “man” hater.

    This proves and confirms, what i already knew about you, you secretly hate black men and worship with men, this is your sole purpose for being on this black blog, not to uplift and support black men but you uplift and support black women, bashing black men.

    “Nope I just call a spade a spade and I refuse to give all black men the thumbs up for what some black men do well at. Sorry but all black men do not deserve to ride on the achievements of the ones who have achieved. My husband is Hispanic. I have never referred to him or seen him as a white male.”

    Fist off, my message has to do with how white men, don’t value black women in any serious capacity, other than sex, not black men’s faults within black on black relationships but you’re trying to make it about that and not my real argument.

    Here is the real reason you’re attacking me, a black man on a black blog:

    You as a black woman are so upset about the fact that a white man, doesn’t want you!

    This is why all of the black women on this blog, that has gotten angry at me for revealing this fact. So you take it out on black men, because you feel rejected by the white man for not wanting you in any REAL sense

    Its sad to see black women like you, be this bitter.

    “As for the rest of what you said…good to know. I DON’T CARE.”

    Of coarse you don’t care about black men, my whole point….

    Black men and women, don’t need double agent black women like you, sharina. So continue to push white supremacy via black on white love on a black blog, i will always contest black women with the likes of you.

    Have a nice day.🙂

    Like


  316. @sharina (high-five btw)
    no i am responding to 2 specific things, sam and trojanpam, thanks.

    Like


  317. @ Sondis

    I think you might want to look at the definition of derail before you continue the onslaught of using it in situations where it does not apply. Though it was quite suspicious you flew off the handle after she posted a picture article of McCain and his new black daughter in law.

    “This is an outright lie!!”– Really? A Lie sondis….I think the above exchange is enough to show how much of a lie that really is.

    “Of coarse you don’t care, you’re a double agent black woman, working for the white man, trying to convince black people to date with people on a black blog”–Yet I have yet to say or advocate in regards to dating white men. In fact I said clear as day (for those that can actually read) that white men are not the only choice. You would be more accurate in saying I advocate for people to date whoever the h*ll they want.

    “Nice try DOUBLE AGENT black woman…to attempt to try and pit Adeen against me!”— I am not attempting to pit adeen against you, but you are the one trying to throw her under the bus. Not me. See your above quotes. You are too old for this type of delusion. If you were not doing such as you claimed then you would not need to mention her name at all. I know what Adeen believes so it was not necessary for any other reason than to throw fault elsewhere.

    “This is typical of black women like you, to always try to make it where a black man is trying to attack another black woman on this blog, so you can garner support from all other black women!”—The funny part in all this is you would not know anything about me even if I typed out 12 comments of information on me. You are so blinded by your hatred and delusions that is is laughable. Typical of me? You don’t know me.

    “There is another black women on this blog that did the very same thing!”—As I remember you did it to yourself. And it was the loving grace of other black women that made excuses for you then and here we are once again getting a show that the problem is none other than you.

    “where am i throwing Adeen under the bus???”—Courtesy of you it was quoted.

    “AGAIN, where?”—The real question is where isn’t it when irr is concerned? I have to ask…do you read your own posts?

    “Nice try but again, you failed miserably.”—Could you not recycle my words? I find it disturbing.

    “I back peddle on nothing i say! I may comment on other issues but that doesn’t mean that is the core of the message i bring, far as interracial dating, between white and black people. So feel free to look up my previous posts, you won’t find anything, incriminating.”—Lucky for me I don’t have to look far. I just need you to take off those rose color glasses to see exactly what it is you are actually saying.

    “You’re going in on me AND idonis”—I believe his name is Adonis and I was not going in on either one of you. If I am not mistaken I disagreed with Adonis on one thing and he took that as a means to go in on

    Like


  318. @sondis my gawd man, i am a convicted felon, i just got out of jail about 10 days ago, and i have like 3 dui’s all kinds of problems, why is it you are so bitter, dude, i get ass, ok? so what. i aint better than nobody last year i was sleeping in a park on some real ish, i’m not subjugating nobody nor denying nobody anything because i like a black woman. what is it with you.

    Like


  319. Continued

    me. As for you you give some women in here the false sense of being for the cause and then you switch and high tail on a drop. On top of that YOU and Adonis are not all men. Sorry.

    “The oddity of this statement is that, you didn’t even argue the fact that you’re a black man hater, only the semantics of how i should have said you were a “man” hater.”—Why should I? You were wrong about what I said to begin with. So anything further you say you will still be wrong about as you are attempting to paint me as some black man hater, but hey use whatever you think will give you the high ground…I don’t care because again…you don’t know me.

    “This proves and confirms, what i already knew about you, you secretly hate black men and worship with men, this is your sole purpose for being on this black blog, not to uplift and support black men but you uplift and support black women, bashing black men.”—Yet I did not speak out on this blog at all before recently. So still waiting for this massive tirade I am suppose to have pushing black women to bash black men.

    “You as a black woman are so upset about the fact that a white man, doesn’t want you!”LOL who said I wanted a white man? I have had two white men in my life….I didn’t want them.🙂 nice try though. But by your logic…wouldn’t I be more for black men and bashing white men instead?

    “Its sad to see black women like you, be this bitter.”—Yet you are the bitter man with no women making low blows hoping you might hit something to make yourself feel better about your own lackings.🙂

    But as I notice with black men like you. It is easier to try and cut down a persons credibility with ridiculous bs than to actually see how messed up and wrong they really are.

    Like


  320. v8driver

    “@sondis my gawd man, i am a convicted felon, i just got out of jail about 10 days ago, and i have like 3 dui’s all kinds of problems, why is it you are so bitter, dude, i get ass, ok? so what. i aint better than nobody last year i was sleeping in a park on some real ish, i’m not subjugating nobody nor denying nobody anything because i like a black woman. what is it with you.”

    if you have to ask, then you just don’t understand.

    I don’t expect for you to understand, anything a black man says, regarding his plight under white supremacy, because a black man in your same situation, will be 10 times worse off than you as a felon with dui’s and the like.

    Like


  321. @sondis i guess you feel i am using some type of advantage of white-skin privilege over black dudes to leverage myself or something that is what it seems like it’s unfair or something to you, well i go out and hustle 110% and do what i need to do to get money to handle my business and be a valuable partner to a woman , and well she’s gonna be black, sorry you feel that way (not really tbh at the end of the day bc that on you) but that’s what’s up.

    Like


  322. And let me be very clear on one more thing. Of those white men I was with I was engaged to one of them at some point in my life. I chose not to be with them…not because they were white, not because of this idea of black love and supporting the black cause, but because they were not right for me. Had they been right and what I wanted then I would have certainly married them, but they were not.

    Like


  323. Sharina:

    “Yet you are the bitter man with no women making low blows hoping you might hit something to make yourself feel better about your own lackings.”

    Who said i have no woman?

    You know what they say about people that assume, they make an ass out of themselves and you have made a big one out of yourself for assuming you know my “lackings” and anything about my love life.

    “As for you you give some women in here the false sense of being for the cause and then you switch and high tail on a drop”

    This makes no sense, whatsoever. how am i switching and high tailing on a drop? huh? whaa?

    You’re a typical down low, black man hater, its no surprise your man isn’t black and is probably a white-Hispanic, ala George Zimmerman.

    Like


  324. Jefe (D, ill answer after this) , if someone was going on about the negative things in Asia I mentioned, and didnt balance it with negative things Americans did, like if someone was going on and on about the bias in the Asian dynamic between Asians, I would mention america has prejudice and bias also, if the person was going on and on, never giving other world examples…I absolutly beleive in keeping perspective about the world when digging in on a country..I dont think its fair to go over american hemmoroids over and over and over , with no perspective of other countries…it isnt good to only talk about american racism over and over , making it seem like it is dispropotionaly huge in America and no where else…it would be lacking to not mention Brazil also…as a matter of fact people should definitly be comparing Brazil and the USA..people said a lot of stuff that the USA is the only country to do this or that, but it isnt true, Brazil has plenty of those things too, and people start thinking its only the USA from only talking about that

    Jefe, I agree, Kiwi has been more aggresive about it than you, but, you defended Kiwi’s stare at interracial asian women and white men, and then made that statement

    Ive been dealing with attemted physical intimidations about dating black women from a long time ago, from all sides, and all the time, the inevitable stink stares that could come from all sides…this is very real and serious for me, I dont put up with it and have had to prepare to physically defend myself…from all sides…I dont play with this…someone better be prepared for a bristling defence if they are going to bring that around me…

    Obviously, you or Kiwi arnt going to see me with an Asian woman anytime soon, so my hostility is at your implication than actualy personaly at you, its at the concept that anyone might give me and my date a stink stare just because Im white with someone who isnt…and I think its veryimportant to give that implication a very powerful message that it is unwelcome around me and I am prepared to deal with it on any leval…my will at defending the right for me to be with my black mate , or an asian date if i was single , or any background or color,is much stronger than a flawed not well thought out political agenda about anti interracial dating…I mean how deep is anyone really committed to fighting for that agenda? I dont think its as deep as my will to defend my right to date who I please, especialy since all my dating life I have interracialy dated

    You also brought up another of those stupid fables like Im hiding behind my POC wife and son…not good to bring that out on me, another flawed, inmy case, argument to use against me…seriously, seeing the opinions , the lack of understanding of Afro diasporic cultures, I have no doubts, I can look out for my wife and son’s interests better than anyone on here…and serously and with all due respect to you and Kiwi, you dont understand afro diasporic cultures, the real struggles, the histories and how they tie together..you do understand white racism and the political angles

    And dam it, i do respect you both bringing in the Asian story and histories, and your experiances…just dont stare at me disgruntled if you see me dating an Asian woman

    Like


  325. @ Sondis
    “You know what they say about people that assume, they make an ass out of themselves and you have made a big one out of yourself for assuming you know my “lackings” and anything about my love life.”—I guess that saying has some level of truth seeing as your post was nothing more than assumptions of me.🙂

    “This makes no sense, whatsoever. how am i switching and high tailing on a drop? huh? whaa?”—Oh it makes plenty of sense but a snake with slither out of any situation.

    “ou’re a typical down low, black man hater, its no surprise your man isn’t black and is probably a white-Hispanic, ala George Zimmerman.”—More assumptions. What was that saying you just used about assumptions?🙂 And as I have said several times on this blog…my husband identifies as black Hispanic.

    Like


  326. @ Legion

    Oh man does that mean I did not say it quite as much as I think? lol

    Like


  327. D…exactly what Im saying…black Americans went about their political Civil Rights Movement , differantly than black Brazilians

    And yes, the American diologue on race is hightened and unique and powerful , and , exactly because of that, sometimes exacts a price , an emotional tax…and, even with the flaws, my gosh, look at the results of that hard struggle, inspite of racism and colorism, there is black economic power and upward movement and visible examples of individual successes

    But, I wouldnt count out Brazil by anymeans and the struggle the black Brazilians have had , and how they have overcome obstacles…brazil had Quilimbos (sp?) , communities of run away slaves, since the 16 hundreds, they had slave revolts, including the black muslim “mare” revolt in Salvador, there were armed confrontations over black cultures “afoxe” and “condomble” in Salvador in the early 19 hundreds, Afro Brazilian culture is extremly powerful and much more in touch with its African roots than black American culture…so is the cooking…Brazil may apear to not be doing it by American standards, then again, Brazilian people relate to each other much differantly than Americans…to expect Brazilians to act it out like americans would be the mistake…and respect so much how black Brazilians dont have political agendas deviding people and eliminating them from their midst…but, the other political agendas in the country, on the far left, will get mandaty, and devisive…interesting, I consider myself on the left…but flunk the grade for the far left

    I disagree the Black American Civil Rights Movement was as much as a cultural lift than it really was a political lift…people politicly lifted themselves up…there were cultural acrutements like the natural, but james Brown was happening all ready and truth be told, the highest leval of black American music ever , was going on under the nose of white kids and black kids and they all missed it big time…the groups of Miles Davis and John Coltrane were uncovering some of the most profound laws of music genius, coming from a serious Afro diasporic tip and foundation, yet using the profound depth of modern European harmony and Indian drone tecniques and Cuban and Brazilian influened grooves next to deep Afro American jazz bebop modern jazz swing

    Not only that, some of the agendas actualy threw black american culture under the bus, instead of focusing on the intent of the racism of the whites drooling over the culture…culture was buried, deep culture ignored…sorry, I dont think it was culture, but badly needed political lift…new political outlooks, heads, agendas…somme agendas were bad..we can correct them now…?

    Like


  328. I actualy have to say, there was great music representing the era of more black awareness….its just that another black American culture was ignored and thrown under the bus…people can think “out with the old and in with the new”..but what a value to throw out…why throw out any treasure

    I meant to say “I respect so much how Brazil..” I wouldnt command it

    Like


  329. @ B.R.

    >”but what a value to throw out…why throw out any treasure”<

    Dr. Umar Ifatunde said it best…

    "The reason why Tyler Perry is so important to the American social order, and the reason why gangsta rap is so important to the American social order is because it helps paint the Black Man as a useless animal."

    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADZl5fwoAl4&feature=share)

    Wise Intelligent of the rap group Poor Righteous Teachers said it pretty good as well…

    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pV4mhxpaEmk)

    Like


  330. @ Sharina

    The irony about the assumptions made me howl like a lunatic. Those that were made about you were bizarrely specific eh? LOL. If I said my hubby is Hispanic(which he is), I wonder how long it would take before I’m labeled a “sellout” and “double agent” just because I didn’t hyphenate a color to this description?

    Like


  331. Hey Aba that “like” widget is making the page jitter like crazy, seems like its constantly loading something.

    Like


  332. @B. R.

    I actualy have to say, there was great music representing the era of more black awareness….its just that another black American culture was ignored and thrown under the bus…people can think “out with the old and in with the new”..but what a value to throw out…why throw out any treasure

    Well, tap dancing was abandoned because of its association with minstrels which we generally found demeaning. Its kind of been resurrected as Stomping though. Aside from that, I wouldn’t say that we threw this or that musical tradition under the bus, so much as we developed different methods of musical expression.

    But, I wouldnt count out Brazil by anymeans and the struggle the black Brazilians have had , and how they have overcome obstacles…

    I respect them too and hope for great things of them in the future. It’s amazing that their older traditions haven’t been all but destroyed by White racism and the New Negro. But, what I was saying is that only recently is there an Afro-Brazilian consciousness that even remotely resembles ours, and it will turn out to be very different than ours by the end of the 21st century.

    As an aside, lately it seems that Afro-Americans are adopting aspects of Caribbean, Brazilian, and West African cultures.

    I disagree the Black American Civil Rights Movement was as much as a cultural lift than it really was a political lift…people politicly lifted themselves up…

    I think that the Civil Rights Movement in the 50s and 60s was the culmination of one hundred years of cultural and political development. Personally, I don’t think one should compartmentalize culture and politics. For one, MLK was rooted in the Southern Black Church, an institution that, much like the secular Black scholars of the North, contributes immensely to our culture and politics.

    Like


  333. “v8driver

    @sondis my gawd man, i am a convicted felon, i just got out of jail about 10 days ago, and i have like 3 dui’s all kinds of problems, why is it you are so bitter, dude, i get ass, ok? so what. i aint better than nobody last year i was sleeping in a park on some real ish, i’m not subjugating nobody nor denying nobody anything because i like a black woman. what is it with you.”

    Well boo hoo for you, a white man that’s playing victim, how conservative of you…Whenever i see or hear a white man complain about being caught up in the “justice system” i can’t help but you say….YOU HAVE NO DAMN EXCUSE!

    Being a white man, you are favored and privileged at every turn, so for you to mess up after getting so many second chances, where as black men, NEVER GET SECOND CHANCES,WE MAKE A MISTAKE ONCE, WE HAVE A FELONY ON OUR RECORD, you have no excuse to be a failure at life, being everything is handed to your ass on a silver platter!

    This is a perfect example of how, white men have an agenda, when it comes to black women.

    The fact that this white man has felonies and just got out of prison and has a alcohol problem, shows his agenda for dating black women, being that NO WHITE WOMEN WANT HIM AND WOULD JUDGE HIM BASED ON HIS CRIMINAL HISTORY!

    So he SETTLES for black women and has convinced himself, that he LOVES to date black women, when in actuality, it has more to do with his social circumstances, that doesn’t allow for him to date a white woman, so he feels a need to pander to black women, being he thinks they are the lowest of women on the totem pole, so a black women should date him, a lowly white man that is down on his luck and has a hard life, therefore she would date him, being he’s white and uses his whiteness under white supremacy, to ensnare black women into thinking, he “loves” them.

    This is just one example, i just happen to pick on this one in particular.

    Like


  334. on Mon 14 Oct 2013 at 22:40:16 Pay It Forward

    Hmm.

    I for one would love to read v8driver’s comments where he mentions that no white women would have him as a covicted felon, and that’s the reason he “SETTLES” for BW (because, of course, it couldn’t be anything but ‘settling’ when it comes to BW, aka “the lowest of women on the totem pole”, according to at least one BM commenter anyway).

    Or could all this ‘settling for BW’ stuff be a simple case of projection by the commenter whose actually mentions it in the first place?!

    Like


  335. @sondis i reckon i drew you out, that’s what i was going for. thanks for actually not dancing around the issue.

    Actually I was tangentially making a rude ad hominem based on my supposition your angst comes from the lack of womenly contact, (however you say that is not so), as in stating that i am dbr and not only that but short so how does white bull do it… Sorry you missed that one, don’t worry about it.

    this isn’t the first time you have unloaded on me — indirectly — thank gawd you are actually stepping up, i respect that but not the sideways comments, you remind me of some other folks just can’t see someone else HAVE something or BE HAPPY.

    this whole dramatic flair about how “i’m settling” is a fallacy that you have created in your own mind. I still have requests out for information from other posters about WHY me being attracted to black women is RACIST, but let me just say i love dark chocolate complected women, with WHATEVER type or even NO hair, i love they way the look and talk and smell and everything else.

    you can sit in your unhappy corner all day and pout, (I’m not goin to say it), dude, that’s ok, just you project some advanced stuff out there without data to back it up.

    ps i am not down on my luck at all, i work, and i’m fine, last year i was down on my luck, and WHY would a black girl choose ME in the HOOD? Because I’m nice and smart and I work, and always have some money (not too much, don’t get it twisted), and I don’t sling, and don’t hurt people as a rule, so leaving out the OTHER reasons like what ADONIS hinted at etc., plus, wait for it… I’M NOT BORING!!!

    WHY don’t you say what’s really there, you feel white men have raped and pillaged their way to absolute world domination and it makes you want to puke that one is out on the town with a black woman. That would be DIS-disingenuous(sp?). That’s what I think and so you have said, and believe it or not I understand a lot about a lot of things (even here!!!), I am just trying to learn where your passive aggressive slow-smoldering vitriolic reaction to me came from, personally, not hiding behind grand sweeping theories and rhetoric.

    -tc

    Like


  336. v8driver:

    I don’t have anything against you, personally. When i speak about white people or white men, i always say, “The majority” and not ALL of white folks.

    Like


  337. @ Gen

    I know right?! LOL

    Like


  338. I would like to share an experience i had, Saturday when i had went out to a bar, upstairs was another bar with a open space for a dance floor with a DJ playing music.

    I watched this groups of 3 beautiful black sista’s dancing by themselves and 2 white men, were circling them like sharks, trying to get their attention as to dance with them. I watched as these 3 black females, continued to ignore the two while males, not paying them a bit of mind. They weren’t being rude or mean to the white men, they were just minding their business and having a good time.

    I was very curious when i first saw the scenario play out as i wanted to see, what the 3 black females would do, when approached by these two white men.

    The white men were undaunted, (they were drunk, being they would not have tried to approach and dance with these black females, sober ) The racial makeup of the bar was very mixed with white,black and Latino.

    Seeing these 3 black women, ignore these white men, that ordinarily wouldn’t give them the time of day in any other setting, put a smile on my face. ^_^

    Like


  339. @sondis i get it.

    Like


  340. i’m extremely rude when under the influence of alcohol,ask abagond, he has shielded you all from most of my drunkin postings here!!! it also makes me prone to blacking out and violence i’m not supposed to drink under any circumstances, besides my medical reasons to not drink which are physical and legitimate, so why do i? oh well… that’s another thread. But also, I find in females it can awaken rage as well, put together two drunkin alphas *whee* here come the cops!

    Like


  341. i got at least a few friends all they want to do is fight! especially crazy mike, he’s always knocking me onto the ground

    Like


  342. eh i’m too far gone, i black out and people are usually afraid to tell me what happened, i can’t have more than a couple shots of hard alcohol or it is into serious ‘risky’ territory

    Like


  343. Peanut:

    Yeah, I’m not just saying, “they were beautiful” as black women but they were drop dead. It even seemed, that the two men were more drawn to one of the girls, more than the other two. She happened to be light skinned, slim and short and very attractive and had long, wavy blonde hair down here back.

    “sondis,

    “why didn’t you go over and try to dance wit them?”

    Because, i came with a lady, i was entertaining.

    Like


  344. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZn2747CITY)

    D, please tell me if there is anything demeaning or related to minstrel in here

    Like


  345. well. it wasn’t uncommon to see, black men and white women, dancing together.

    I also saw a young black broth, dancing in the corner with a white female, i studied them for a few minutes and it seemed like they didn’t want to dance on the dance floor, where everyone could see them. I felt it was more on the white females side more so.

    I also saw a young black kid and girl, dancing with each other, ( very crude i might add) then as i was talking, i looked over and saw them both, making out and their friends kept pointing over at them, giggling and laughing ( about 4 other white girls ), acting very surprised to see them kissing the way they were, like they weren’t even in a relationship, just friends that came together at a bar.

    I just shook my head… -_-

    P.S. The lady i came with, we were talking about everything we saw and when she went to use the ladies room, one of the white girls, kept looking over at me as i was dancing to the music. I kept saying to myself, I’m not in the least, interested in you.

    They didn’t come over, being they saw i came with someone but I’m sure if i was there by myself or some of my guy friends, they would have been dancing all around and in front of me as to get my attention.

    These were very young girls by the way and the black kid as well.

    Like


  346. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQQlVg6FEzM)

    D, a comment on tap is in moderation, look at this incredible Brazilian folkloric group and the parralel dancing that is like tap…there are incredilble ties in Afro diasporic cultures, and it is a huge rush and inner fullfillment to make the connections

    Like


  347. on Tue 15 Oct 2013 at 02:05:55 King of Trouble

    Thank you Deb, sometimes I wonder about people love is not for weaklings, less for the timid and never for cowards. Love is for the Don Quixote windmills be dimmed.

    Like


  348. Two comments on tap in moderation, D, maybe when this post is up they will be up..

    I think regulating tap to minstrel shows and saying its demeaning is selling it way short…there is so much depth in tap..it was thrown under the bus by people who didnt give it value…

    this wasnt about moving on to new things, Miles and coltrane were above the heads of most people…and you have to see the ken Burns documentry on jazz, it was very specific about how Armstrong was demeaned, thank god for Branford and Wynton for setting the record straight…no, D, it wasnt about just moving on to new styles at all, it was serious demeaning and dissmissing culture

    While traditional Brazilian culture is more in touch with its African roots, what is happening now is it is slowly being sluffed off to the side, or manipulated by the corps down there to be a watered down style..it is frightening, and what ive been talking about, how these deep treasures get dissmissed, buried and destroyed

    Yes, the black american church was and is a fonte of one kind of black American culture, and has produced incredible singers, but, it is a pinched version, of the real deal…in brazil, as in cuba and haiti, they have Candomble, Voo Doo, and Santera, which are direct links to the cultures in Africa where the slaves came from…they had to hide the dieties behind Catholic Saints, and the cerimomies use various African oriented beats with names in Yoroba, and there is drumming , dancing and in the process posecion by the dieties

    in the black American church, in the slave days, they took the drums away, forced them to practice Christianity, and, out of that, you know that there are moments in the black church where someone can “get the feeling’, and actualy go into a kind of posecion..this is a very skimpy version of the Candomble dancing and drumming

    the black american church was in direct odds with jazz, and frowned on it..the black american church can only go so far and ultimitly will stymie the the true force and nature of the more powerful Afro diasporic cultures

    Like


  349. youtubes go into moderation, even with parenthasis…????

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  350. “Peanut

    @ sondis,

    so to make my point, then yes…black women are more loyal you saw it with your own eyes.”

    Just because three young black women, were not interested in dancing with those particular white men, doesn’t translate into black women, being loyal to black men.

    This doesn’t prove anything, other than the fact that these, particular young black women, wasn’t interested in these white men. they were in their early 20’s late teens.

    So it could have easily been, the fact that not only were they way too old for these young black women, they were dorky and couldn’t even dance!! hahah me and my lady friend was laughing and making snide remarks on their lack of dancing skills.

    The white men were older, at least in their late 20’s to early 30’s at best.

    which is typical of OLDER, white men to approach very YOUNG, black women for sex.

    So yeah, this is a very poor attempt at you trying to prove your point by using this scenario…better luck next time.

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  351. Now that i remember, one of the white men, was BALD!! i was looking at both of them and i saw one of the white guys was balding! lol

    So you’re reading way to much into it and trying to make something out of it to fit your, agenda.

    I am 100% positive it had nothing to do with loyalty for black men, that lead these black women to give those two white men, the cold shoulder.

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  352. @BR,

    I have never had any problem with anyone dating, marrying or otherwise with anyone else. My thought experiment about the idea of Asian men lynching white men for dating “their” women was just to point out how ridiculous (or even mean) it is.

    But, despite how ridiculous it is, it was a very real concern for non-white men who dated or married white women pre-Loving v. Virginia. My mother grew up in heart of KKK country and it was not until when I was older did I understand why my father could never go to my mother’s hometown. He came for the first time in 1968.

    I do not begrudge any “white” person who wants to date or marry non-whites / POC. But I cannot accept anyone using the “I’m not racist because my wife/husband/gf/bf is {non-white background}.” Not that I ever said it applied to you. But that fact alone does not exonerate anyone from blatant racist behavior.

    Likewise, being bi-racial or multiracial would not exonerate one either.

    I still think your mention of the Great Leap Forward or the Cultural Revolution is a derailment. I really don’t think readers need those comments to “put things in perspective”. It is akin to using the Native American genocide as a means to put the Nazi holocaust into perspective.

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  353. @ jefe

    I agree. I am very eager to discuss the Great Leap Forward or the Cultural Revolution on other sites. I simply see it as a derailment on a blog about race. And in our case, it is a case of stereotyping. Why not talk about Africans enslaving “their own”? White racists have brought that up to derail and to “put things in greater perspective”.

    When Danny Chen’s hazing and suicide was discussed on other forums, white racists were quick to point out that Danny Chen was a “Chinese man living in America” and that “China was just as racist”. However, Danny Chen was a patriotic American soldier, fighting for his country, and yet we’re supposed to “put things in greater perspective”. After all, we’re not “real” Americans, so we should know “our place” when we challenge America-, oops!, I meant white people.

    Like


  354. on Tue 15 Oct 2013 at 06:01:06 the alchemist

    @Sondis

    I was trying to ignore you but…

    Please lay of the T. Sotomayor videos. Your comments on this thread have not been CONSTRUCTIVE. I need to reread the Code Book. I missed the chapter that says black women are THE PROBLEM.

    Therapy is for everyone even you.

    Believe it or not I say this with love,

    The Alchemist

    Like


  355. Kiwi , with your uptight attitude I dont care what you think,,

    No, Ill say it again , stepping back and taking perspective after a thousand negative posts on America , is very desirable, I live with lets make America the boogey man , and never look at the big picture..

    Jefe , we just have to agree to disagree , your joke , or , thought experiment was in bad taste

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  356. Jefe, your life was traumatised, I can see how you could think like that ,but, its funny, you and Kiwi talk about getting intimidated by white men,and imply its the white race, I say I got intimidated by black men, but dont imply that means black people do that or like it represents black people

    There is absolutly no balance what só ever…no, its very desirable to step back and take perspective against you alls constant negative flow

    Educate yourselves to some black American culture, and. Afro Brazilian culture with the clips I brought in, because you both are ignorant of that..you could use a little knowledge on that

    Like


  357. I grew up in or adjacent to majority black American areas – Anacostia, DC and nearby PG County, MD. and joined the majority African-American clubs in school. I felt alienated by the white only groups. I actually have studied quite a bit of African-American history and culture to understand about the environment I grew up in. You could probably learn more about African-American history and culture yourself too, as could many African-Americans themselves. I am sure that Abagond is learning as he is going along, as well as his readers.

    You think there is no balance by bringing up items about Asian-American history because it is completely omitted from our general education. So bringing up little tidbits probably feels like an inundation. Modern Chinese history from the 1950s-70s is an interesting subject in its own right — but it is very obtuse to use that to understand Asian-American history. As I said, do we use the Native American genocide to put to the Nazi holocaust in perspective, or even the current Han vilification of Tibetans and Uyghurs? It doesn’t really make sense.

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  358. In the UK 50% of Afro Caribbean men marry White women, and 35% of Afro Caribbean women marry White men; I wonder if the African American community will end up going in the same way?
    Personally, I’m not against interracial relationships/marriages. I’m the product of one and I’ve had just as many White boyfriends as Black. The only thing that I find disturbing is the rate at which many in the Western African diaspora continually spout this “race doesn’t matter” philosophy, to justify their unwillingness to value the worth of the nuclear Black family unit, in order to cross over, when the truth is, the vast majority of other races don’t feel this way. Coming from a non Black parent, and being hearing non Black family members talk, I can assure you many Indians, Whites, and Irish know full well the importance of staying with their own. In fact, I have only ever heard Blacks champion being outside of their race.

    I was thinking about the Jacksons the other day. They’re an African American dynasty, they worked their way out of poverty, and achieved the kind of American upper middle class 1% success that is most unusual, especially during “their day.” But since most of the brothers and sisters, (if not all), have married out, all that accumulated wealth will eventually be dispersed into a community that is not their own. Look at the worth of Michael’s estate; yet we know those are White children.

    As I said, I don’t have any problem with interracial marriages, none whatsoever, when they are based on love, but judging by the demographics who do it the most, (those who have been directly impacted by colonialism/White supremacy), I think that’s quite telling. It’s obvious that it often has nothing to do with love.

    But when all is said and done, you must live your life. I’d never tell anyone who has tried to find their mate in their own for a while, and then comes across their ideal outside of their race, to pass it up. Life is too short for that.

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  359. Sometimes stuff that takes place in other countries does help you to understand your own. What I know about South Africa, Israel, the Dominican Republic, Brazil, New Zealand, etc, helps me to understand the U.S. But the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution in China hardly fall into that class, at least not when it comes to American racism. They do not add “perspective”. They are derailments. At best they are used to say, “White Americans are not uniquely evil” – as if we did not already know that, as if anyone had said otherwise.

    https://abagond.wordpress.com/2012/05/30/whites-are-not-uniquely-evil/

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  360. OFF TOPIC: tap dancing.

    Like


  361. ALL YouTubes go to moderation because not everyone adds the parentheses. Putting in the parentheses yourself will make it go through moderation faster.

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  362. Well, that is your opinion, and I dont agree with it..just like I dont agree with just looking at uSDA drone bombing of the Taliban and not say anything of the taliban massacers and poisoning of children

    I dont buy your fables aproach to disscussing things…Jefe brings up 100,000 Chinese missing in Iowa and wants to imply its genicide, by the way , I caught jefe in two errors in stuff about Brazil, that means i should be skepticle of just anything coming down the pike, and if he wants to imply that was a mass extermination, he should get shown what a real mass extermination looks like in our lifetime

    As far as saying tap dancing is off topic, well, its your blog, so i wont go against that, but the fact you cant tie it in with a flawed agenda against interracial relationships, coming from some activists in the late 60’s, who put out the flawed aganda against tap dancing shows your own limited perspective, Abagond

    And i dont like your assumptions in your thread that its an argument that interracial relationships cure racism or mixed kids are more beautiful…it isnt any argument by people in interracial relationships on here or from mixed kids…

    and shame on you for letting the slander go on and the dragging through the mud of some of the stauncest anti racists on this blog

    you come up short on this one , abagond..but, yeah i wont talk about tap dancing on here anymore

    Like


  363. You know, you have stated your supposed neutrality about interracial relationships with white people involved, abagond, but I trust your deep inner feelings on it as far as I could throw a bus handcuffed

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  364. the whole black activist position against interracial relationships was under the unbrella of the larger activist position that white people should be eliminated from the movement…which was in no way a monolithic black position, there was the MLK versus Malcolm X debates, this was an activist position a certain factions in the movement

    Back then I could understand that black people needed their space to vent indignation and anger at white attitudes, that would upset many of the white people in the movement at that time…white people had died in the movement, and its interesting to note that blacks and jewish people were linked together in the struggle back in the 30’s 40’s and 50’s,but after certain activist positions and tying in international politics with Israel and Palistine, it sure shifted fast, yet jewish people were slandered way more than Asians by white racists…

    As a matter of fact , a movie ran all the time on tv back in the early 60’s,”From Here To Eternity” that went into the ugly truth of japanese internment in World War 2, it sure impressedm me as a young person back then and the distaste for white racism against Asians…there were plenty of white people who were willing to look at that as very wrong…

    but , very perplexing this political activist movement with an agenda against interracial dating with white people, comes down to haunt the black movement into today

    Just like Jim Crow comes down to haunt us today…

    I mean in all seriousness, Abagond, you think thread after thread with some ofnthe largest comment sections about this anti interracial sex issues, with so much bitter in fighting and slandering, is healthy at all?

    Its pathetic

    and why I will say fuk anyone of any color looking over my shoulder disgruntled if I am dating someone of their background , or especialy the white racist calling me a race traitor…its bullsh!t..at that point, the political agenda stepped over the line

    These threads give me ample cause to have a powerful set of defences in place

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  365. Yeah, Legion, he said…and Im saying, based on the real low leval,of disscusion about interracial sex, how it goes on and on and how you see the staunchest fighters against white racism , get slandered and dragged through the mud, i dont trust abagonds inner secret feelings about interracial sex with white people..you know, I agree with reams of things abagond writes, but , hades, hes Catholic and against abortion, its not like I dont have things I can disagree with Abagond about

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  366. Abagond

    I have a comment in moderation since yesterday. I know why but I only quoted another.

    Like


  367. VERY nice recap of several threads of thought. Sweet work…

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  368. And, I find it just incredible , that in the middle of this mud slinging, crap psycho analising, and steryotyping, when I try to take it do a more in depth discusion, on the origins of this flawed political agenda, by pointing out other flawed polítil agendas, which is why this one is flawed, too, that happened at that time, it becomes off topic..yeah, better to keep it in the gutter..

    Yeah, Abagond, I dont trust your secret inner feelings on interracial sex with white people

    Like


  369. Ebony,

    “But since most of the brothers and sisters, (if not all), have married out, all that accumulated wealth will eventually be dispersed into a community that is not their own. ”

    The Jackson’s like most affluent and middle class black people aren’t apart of “black communities”. Most of the money in black communities returns to the white community without interracial marriage.

    The problem you are talking about has nothing to do with interracial marriage and everything to do with racism, including the behavior you describe as valuable, marriage as financial transaction to keep your wealth out of the hands of “other” people.

    to oppose interracial marriage because money might go to those “other” people who happen to be your sons and daughters sounds very racist to me.

    But I agree that other races find racism more valuable than black people do.

    Like


  370. @ Sondis @ Sharina: Comments deleted for using insulting language.

    https://abagond.wordpress.com/comment-policy/

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  371. @ B. R.

    We can continue our discussion in the Open Thread if you like.

    Like


  372. @Solesearch

    The Jackson’s like most affluent and middle class black people aren’t apart of “black communities”.

    Well you’ve just alienated about half the Black folks in America, including yours truly. Nice going.

    Like


  373. In the UK 50% of Afro Caribbean men marry White women, and 35% of Afro Caribbean women marry White men; I wonder if the African American community will end up going in the same way?

    @ Ebony, the only reason it is seemingly high on your side of the pond is because the African population is very, very low. Last i checked it was hovering around 1-2%. Populations of Africans that small will be “granted” little or no restrictions to chose where they live, work or go to school–the most logical conclusion is that we will be “allowed” to marry where we spend the majority of our time.

    In the U.S., the Black population is larger, although not nearly so to supersede the white population–therefore, we are more likely to live in “ghettos”, attend inferior public schools, so that the majority of us has little chance of being around whites and gaining access to “their” resources through marriage.

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  374. Jefe , you have given no indication that you understand black culture at all, you were probably studying black American political trajectory, you are the one saying black Americans have weak culture…?

    Só you went to school with black people gives you credibility? Does interracial sex mean a person cant be racist?

    No, bringing up historicl Asian American history does not have the effect you say, seeing how you can make mistakes in your research does affect me

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  375. and , Jefe , I said this before , so let me put in caps I DONT AGREE WITH YOU KIWI AND ABAGOND THAT I CANT USE THE 20 MILLION EXTERMINATED IN THE RED CULTURAL REVOLUTION, AND I HAVE LAID OUT MY REASONS VERY CLEARLY AND I THINK THEY ARE COMPELLING REASONS, I LIVE WITH PEOPLE WHO PILE ON ALL DAY HOW BAD AMERICA WAS IN THE COLD WAR AND THEY CANT EVEN LOOK AT THE WHOLE TRUTH, SO , YOUR RATIONALISATIONS AND FABLE CONTEXTS ARE NOT CONVINCING TO ME AT ALL….

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  376. @Soulsearch

    I don’t just mean wealth. I’m talking about the concept of building strong nuclear Black families that start with a Black bride and groom; Black owned businesses, Black middle class neighborhoods, Black schools, and getting out of epidemics like 70% of African American children being born out of wedlock, poverty, etc. The idea of building for yourself during your school years, and then being about your family when your marriage years come around, the idea of leaving a legacy of pride, putting down roots, and the beauty of Black love, for your children; being about your community, and in turn, your descendants.

    To be honest, I don’t think that Whites, Indians, and Middle Easterners who embrace this concept, are racist, I would call it pride. The reason why White supremacy has been allowed to succeed for such a long period of time is because they call it pride, and we call it racism, and instead, will fight for the right to assimilate.

    We’ll just have to agree to disagree here, as I can’t understand opposition to this position by Blacks, although I have tried.

    Like


  377. (D, I moved our disscusion to open thread, it threatons to get too close to the truth over here, and its better to keep here in the gutter)

    you know, Ive heard arguments on here that people shouldnt have interracial sex with white people because:

    they are the oppresor
    they raped POC
    white people owned slaves
    they committed genocides and have only brought death and destruction on the world
    white people are trying to drive black people and Asian people apart

    There are other rationalisations people have said ,but those above and others, just keep a constant din in the background that white people , and especialy america, are the worst people and america the worst place in the world

    Im not even saying this is your position, Jefe, but you have done nothing to counter the balance…and hades yes, there needs to be occaisional balance ,and calibration to the whole truth in this world about man’s inhumanity to man…you know racism does fall into that catagory, “man’s inhumanity to man”, in that context you are god dam real other examples of man’s inhumanity to man can be brought up

    by the way, you cant learn about real black culture in school, they dont even teach jazz right..you got to be kidding, i mean just enlighten me to what you know about black culture, take it to the open thread…yiu opened your mouth about it, now back it up

    Like


  378. Thanks Peanut.

    @ phoebeprunelleo

    @ Ebony, the only reason it is seemingly high on your side of the pond is because the African population is very, very low. Last i checked it was hovering around 1-2%. Populations of Africans that small will be “granted” little or no restrictions to chose where they live, work or go to school–the most logical conclusion is that we will be “allowed” to marry where we spend the majority of our time.

    In the U.S., the Black population is larger, although not nearly so to supersede the white population–therefore, we are more likely to live in “ghettos”, attend inferior public schools, so that the majority of us has little chance of being around whites and gaining access to “their” resources through marriage.
    …………………………………………………….

    You might wanna come check over here, because council estates (our version of your government housing projects) are riddled with Blacks, over here. We have very few representations on TV, the jails are filled with Black men and women, gun and knife crime has been an epidemic, out of wedlock births… pretty much everything that plagues you plagues us 100 times worse, because we are such a small population and we have never has a major Black pride movement like you have. We are not let in because racism doesn’t exist, we go in because it does.

    Do you know the word for dark skin over here? Blick. (Who do you think says this? It’s not White people.) Do you know the importance of being mixed race and light skinned? Do you know that most Africans marry their own, while those of the Caribbean community, who have been here longer, and have become victims of living in the midst of so much White supremacy, so much so, that it is shameful to have a dark skinned child. Trust me, interracial marriage over here is not due to peace and progressiveness.

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  379. *and we have never has a major Black pride movement

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  380. You guys have it worse over there because racism isn’t usually much more overt and straight forwards. But… you guys have it much easier than we do in many ways because you actually exist. Food for thought.

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  381. D,

    “Well you’ve just alienated about half the Black folks in America, including yours truly. Nice going.”

    I couldn’t care less about alienating you or anyone else. I am interested in why you think my statement is wrong. The Jackson’s and most wealthy blacks don’t live in black communities. Abagond even said as much in this post.

    “That could well be true, but not necessarily because of any secret desire: as Michelle Obama found out, most highly successful blacks live in an all-white world and become cut off from other blacks.”

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  382. Ebony,

    “To be honest, I don’t think that Whites, Indians, and Middle Easterners who embrace this concept, are racist, I would call it pride. The reason why White supremacy has been allowed to succeed for such a long period of time is because they call it pride, and we call it racism, and instead, will fight for the right to assimilate.

    We’ll just have to agree to disagree here, as I can’t understand opposition to this position by Blacks, although I have tried.”

    And there it is.

    Ebony, I don’t think interracial marriage is a barrier to black people owning businesses, having children within a marriage (obviously), or putting down roots. I think white people’s “pride” is the barrier. So I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

    Like


  383. @ B.R.

    Maybe I am a bit thick. What does tap dancing have to do with interracial relationships? Why should it be on topic?

    Like


  384. abagond,

    “At best they are used to say, “White Americans are not uniquely evil” – as if we did not already know that, as if anyone had said otherwise.”

    People have said otherwise.

    Like


  385. @Solesearch

    I always respect it whenever people can respectfully agree to disagree. Thank-you, I appreciate it.

    I will just say this; if African Americans who have worked into the middle class are marrying out the most (particularly AA men), and are becoming disconnected with a sense of community and Black legacy, their children are also likely to be disconnected, marry out, and at that point the family will almost be (or look), White. It cannot be a coincidence that Asian women and Black men marry out the most, and according to White supremacist ideals of femininity and masculinity, which their choices usually match. (General statement, and not a reflection of any/every AW/WM or AAM/WW couples). But, it is very obvious.

    You can’t raise a strong nuclear Black family with a White partner. And as I understand it, from the statistics, there are no longer enough Asian women for Asian men, and there’s certainly not enough AA men for AA women, the latter community has already had a historic amount of problems without this addition being added to the plate. It’s a problem.

    White pride will never end, Black pride is obviously dead. We all seem to fight for the right to go White,or we’re so consumed with attacking eachother, (BM vs. BW or the other way around). So we should get used to staying on the bottom, and stop complaining about it, because we are very responsible for our continued problems and we are clearly not about changing it.

    It’s very sad.

    Like


  386. I couldn’t care less about alienating you or anyone else. I am interested in why you think my statement is wrong. The Jackson’s and most wealthy blacks don’t live in black communities.

    My family is middle class, but we live in a multi-racial development with Latinos, immigrants, and other Afro-Americans. We still have connections with other Black people through family, friends, and church. My mother and father are pretty radical, and in case you haven’t noticed, we vote in the shared common interest of other African Americans, especially poor African Americans, most of the time. My parents both grew up in Black neighborhoods, I attend an HBCU, and even my little sister is finding her roots.

    That could well be true, but not necessarily because of any secret desire: as Michelle Obama found out, most highly successful blacks live in an all-white world and become cut off from other blacks.

    Is Barack Obama really a good example? He wasn’t cut off from other African Americans because he was never connected to us in the first place.

    In short, your are confusing Race with Ethnicity. Barack is Black, because society treats him that way, but he is neither African-American nor a part of the [2nd] African Diaspora. Barack and I both enjoyed class privileges, but I doubt he received the oral histories like I did via my family. Why would he? His history is not Our history, because his ancestors were neither enslaved nor subject to the vicious and violent White Supremacy of the 20th century. (This isn’t to say Obama is a Trojan Horse or some non-sense, but that there is a great diversity of histories and culture amongst so-called “Blacks”, which is why I don’t like the word; it implies that there is some kind of global racial, cultural, and historical monolith.)

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  387. So in order to have black pride you have to marry a black man?

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  388. @Ebonymonroe

    ” So we should get used to staying on the bottom, and stop complaining about it, because we are very responsible for our continued problems and we are clearly not about changing it.”—No one should ever get used to being at the bottom and I don’t believe that marrying black is the only way to have black pride or change the black situation.

    That falls in line with the ‘you’re not black enough” line of thinking, but like solesearch I will simply have to agree to disagree.

    Like


  389. @EbonySearch:

    No, I don’t believe the IR rates will ever be like Englands over here because we have a much larger black population here in the US and I believe also social progression here in the US so the mentality is different. Blacks have been here since America’s inception and we feel very much a part of the US despite racism.

    It’s interesting that you mention the Jackson family. I, like Janet Jackson, like other men of color, (Latino, arab and other) however its strange how 99% of the kids do not have black kids. Atleast 2 or 2 could have. Especially Micheal Jacksons kids, none are even black. so weird. I think though that that family is just SCREWED UP!. Most black families are not like that. For most black families, I don’t believe extreme interracial dating and no black kids or kids that even look black are even the norm.

    I feel bad for british blacks, I have been there before and w/out affirmative action/other civil rights laws I experienced much more discrimination over there than I’ve ever experienced in the US because there were no laws saying they have to hire blacks or the government would check into their hiring practices. I also noticed every other black male had a white female in their car, to be fair, I also noticed many black women with white men. Most importantly, I saw so many ghetto looking blacks, it was ashame. I honestly don’t think anything is wrong with IR dating as long as the majority of the group are marrying their own race.

    What’s strange about in Europe is that while here in the US, Asians and others date out more than blacks, in Europe, Asians and others are not dating OUT( with whites) as much as Blacks are. The sad thing is that British society to me, particularly in terms of jobs and social advancements is still ANTI-BLACK despite so much IR dating.

    ————————————————————————————
    RE::

    In the UK 50% of Afro Caribbean men marry White women, and 35% of Afro Caribbean women marry White men; I wonder if the African American community will end up going in the same way?
    Personally, I’m not against interracial relationships/marriages. I’m the product of one and I’ve had just as many White boyfriends as Black. The only thing that I find disturbing is the rate at which many in the Western African diaspora continually spout this “race doesn’t matter” philosophy, to justify their unwillingness to value the worth of the nuclear Black family unit, in order to cross over, when the truth is, the vast majority of other races don’t feel this way. Coming from a non Black parent, and being hearing non Black family members talk, I can assure you many Indians, Whites, and Irish know full well the importance of staying with their own. In fact, I have only ever heard Blacks champion being outside of their race.

    I was thinking about the Jacksons the other day. They’re an African American dynasty, they worked their way out of poverty, and achieved the kind of American upper middle class 1% success that is most unusual, especially during “their day.” But since most of the brothers and sisters, (if not all), have married out, all that accumulated wealth will eventually be dispersed into a community that is not their own. Look at the worth of Michael’s estate; yet we know those are White children.

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  390. What’s sad about this topic is the divisiveness. Black women posters keep dogging out black men and totally IGNORE The fact that many Black WOMEN also prefer white men or pretend white men are saviors and also dog out black men. Some of the black mens posts are focused on Black women.

    It’s sad because if you open your eyes, you will see both black men AND black women are doing the dogging out of the opposite sex when it comes to blacks.

    Like


  391. @Solesearch

    Feel free to alienate whomever you like; I’m too old and too wise to let anyone make me doubt my Negritude. However keep in mind that shunning one another across class lines will only make us weaker spiritually, politically, and economically. Uplift would be that much harder.

    Like


  392. @Alicia

    “I think though that that family is just SCREWED UP!.”—Bingo!

    Like


  393. @ Solesearch

    Who on this thread has said that only white people are evil?

    Like


  394. @ B.R.

    Which black activists from the 1960s were against interracial relationships?

    Like


  395. @Jefe

    As I said, do we use the Native American genocide to put to the Nazi holocaust in perspective

    Good old Godwin’s Law. You may want to check this out:

    http://www.bluecorncomics.com/hitler.htm

    Like


  396. @ B.R.

    White racism is a huge reason someone might not want to marry a white person. A completely legitimate one. But what you and Asplund seem to do is play down that racism and then call those who have reservations about interracial relationships racists. Cool trick.

    Like


  397. @ Alicia

    “Some of the black mens posts are focused on Black women.”—In a good way or a bad way

    Like


  398. @ B. R.

    “and , Jefe , I said this before , so let me put in caps I DONT AGREE WITH YOU KIWI AND ABAGOND THAT I CANT USE THE 20 MILLION EXTERMINATED IN THE RED CULTURAL REVOLUTION, AND I HAVE LAID OUT MY REASONS VERY CLEARLY AND I THINK THEY ARE COMPELLING REASONS, I LIVE WITH PEOPLE WHO PILE ON ALL DAY HOW BAD AMERICA WAS IN THE COLD WAR AND THEY CANT EVEN LOOK AT THE WHOLE TRUTH, SO , YOUR RATIONALISATIONS AND FABLE CONTEXTS ARE NOT CONVINCING TO ME AT ALL…”

    The Cultural Revolution argument is idiotic. Sure, whites are not the only evil people in the world. But we are talking about interracial relationships. In that case a white person’s racism does matter. Maybe it is not bad enough, maybe it is not their worst quality, but it has to be taken into account by any person of colour. So does one’s own internalized racism.

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  399. Trust me, interracial marriage over here is not due to peace and progressiveness.

    Go back and review my post to you Ebony, and look at the wording.

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  400. I second what you said here Abagond. This is my overall problem with the Western African Diaspora (I’m talking in general); continuing to act as though the idea of wanting a Black partner is racist. I once heard a White man, after being criticised for prefering White women, say he won’t have a people pulling the race card, just because he prefers his own. A few White people patted him on the back, one even ignorant and said he’s very happy with his White wife and blue eye’d blonde haired babies. I couldn’t get mad at overhearing it, they have a right to it. A few weeks later I heard a group of hispanics (Puerto rican) say they wouldn’t consider marrying an African American. They said they’re ugly, they prefer their own, blah, blah, blah The group consisted of men and women.

    But, but, but… (And this all realky actually happened), a few weeks later I heard a group of Black men talking. One of the brothas said he prefers Black women. Guess what happened? All the brothas he was with started accusing him of being racist, and protesting their right to be with whoever, and all that “beauty is everywhere” stuff. Now I’m not saying that’s not true, but we are one of the only groups like that across the globe, (excluding Africa). I don’t believe our passion in protesting for the right to jump ship is not a result of White supremacy.

    @ Sharina

    If you looked at my first post just a few posts up, you would see that I never said it was wrong. I said THE RATE at which we do it, especially in comparison to other groups. I said that it’s fine when it’s about love, but I feel it usually isn’t, as no one does it as much as us.

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  401. Do you know that most Africans marry their own, while those of the Caribbean community, who have been here longer, and have become victims of living in the midst of so much White supremacy, so much so, that it is shameful to have a dark skinned child.

    Yeah, i do know this…and i also know that Caribbean Blacks there have the highest percentage in raw numbers of IR marriage with whites and are the most dysfunctional Black group…

    In fact in Nottingham, the dual heritage children now outnumber the Black children.

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  402. @phoebeprunelle

    “Little to no restriction” I understand what you’re saying, but it simply isn’t true sweetheart. They’re just well spoken when they show it over here.
    Interracial marriage over here is frowned upon, we have a political party called the NBP which is a White power party. The only difference is, we are succeeding in breeding our Blackness out on purpose.

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  403. @Ebonymonroe

    I’m confused here. Where did I say that you said it was wrong? If I am not completely mistaken I simply stated that black pride does not require marrying black. Though I will check it to see.

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  404. @ Alicia

    Yes the UK is very, very messd up.

    As far as the sistas getting upset over dudes and their generalisations of BW, I don’t know if your aware of how extreme the hatred for BW/G has become online. The Tommy Sotomayors, Thugticians, Sgt. Willie Petes, etc, there was actually a death of a beautiful young Black woman named Asia Mcgowen by one of Sgt. Willie Pete’s followers. It has gotten out of hand. When you hear words like simp or statements that you know come from the philosophy of those I named, you’re gonna have to understand sistas closing their ears. The philosophy shows up everywhere online, even here. So BW have just begun tuning it out to stay sane.

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  405. @ Sharina

    Exactly, that’s what I was trying to say. Not ending up with a Black mate does not mean one is devoid of Black pride. If you’ve tried to find your mate amongst your own, waited patiently, and then come across your ideal outside of your race, you shouldn’t pass it up. Life is too short, and everyone wants to be happy.

    My position is, that there is importance Black love and actually trying for it, as opposed to saying it doesn’t matter when it does. How can we make gains for our community politically, if we can’t even steady the nuclear Black family. And I do think it’s odd how many in the Western African diaspora champion interracial dating while others are about their own. I don’t feel this is unrelated to a slave mind set. The only one’s who beat us is Asian women. We should be trying to champion Black neighborhoods, families, business, good political leaders, Black beauty. Instead we are busy singing “we are one world” when it comes it comes to building families, and as soon as something happens, we start crying about White supremacy. It’s a joke.

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  406. D.,

    “I’m too old and too wise to let anyone make me doubt my Negritude.”

    My statement had nothing to do with you at all, let alone your negritude.

    “However keep in mind that shunning one another across class lines will only make us weaker spiritually, politically, and economically. Uplift would be that much harder.”

    I never advocated shunning anyone against class lines or any lines. I have no idea what you are talking about.

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  407. D.,

    “Is Barack Obama really a good example? He wasn’t cut off from other African Americans because he was never connected to us in the first place.”

    Barack Obama wasn’t the example.

    Like


  408. * (Hangs head @ the typos and grammatical errors.)

    Look, as I’ve said before, you guys post like water on here, so you’re just gonna have to overlook my posting like a h@lf-wit.

    Like


  409. Abagond, thank you for allowing me to respond about tap dancing , and I will do my best to answer the other questions..

    I keep bringing up tap dancing and Armstrong because they were political agendas that came out in the mid to late 60’s, along with the anti white interracial relationship agenda…

    The exact people who came up with these things is something I dont exactly know, I just know, because I lived through it, that they were new trains of thought on the political activist scene…they probably came from a variety of sources…

    you know that black activists latched on to Fannon and his analysis of that one woman , and there was that point where the preasure on black people from some of the activists was to stay loyal to black man or woman..this rhetoric you hear here right now, but it wasnt on the scene in as big a way before the 60’s..and i am all for black on black relationships, that was never my argument

    the clip someone brought in with the black women in South Beach getting hit on by a white man, I think was Sotomyer, I dont know, but he went on about “you sighned on to a loyalty oath…” This “loyalty oath” is a referance to that agenda

    I dont know who put out the tap denouncement either, but , by gosh , all of a sudden, the expresion” tap dancing shucking and jiving for the white man” came into the rhetoric, and you actualy heard Sondis use this rhetoric, is there any shucking or jiving on the clip I brought in? those men and women wer top rate incredible dancers , in a serious black American innovative art , which you cansee has parralel roots in Brazil, I dont know about you, but that floors me, and these artists were regulated to shucking and jiving for the white man?

    What i can tell youis there was a show called the Lawrence Welk Show, that was as corny white as you could get, every sunday, and they brought out a frightened looking black guy, looking like he didnt want to offend anybody and he would tap dance…I mean heck yes, lets condemn the racist whites who drool over black culture but dont ackowledge their racism, that is what should be condemned , not the high art of tap dancing..

    and i didnt really know the depth of the Armstrong condemnation until the Ken Burns jazz docu and Wynton Marsalis doing yeoman work to correct the situation, and tap dancing hasnt really recovered

    And these agendas co incided with this stay loyal to black , dont go out with white , and that was under the “time to tell white people to get out of the movement” agenda…my point being, these were, out of one of our greatest social movements in american hisdtory, The Black Civil Rights Movement , and these were some of the flawed parts, the flawed agendas, that carry over and do damage…we cant see this strange , sad , bitter , and huge confrontations, right in the middle of the black diologue , and think its healthy…yes, maybe it was nescasary back then…but it sure has brought damage into today

    I try to draw attention to these things together because there is an origin of some of the rhetoric you hear, and , to show that it is flawed, you have to show contexts where it is with other flawed agendas that were at the same time…but not damage the incredible work of the Civil Right movement

    I really thought I was careful, not like asplund, to say i have absolutly nothing against anyone, if this rhetoric rings true for them, for their personal desicians to not date white people…I support those desicians, ..what i will opose and fight , is trying to criticise and psycho analise black people , or Asians, for what ever reasons they have come to the conclusion , that they are ok with having a relationship with a white person , and , i dont agree all white people are the oppressor , and there is some heavy white plot to either get black people apart, get them with white people or get them away from white people..its all gotten convoluted, even bigger reason to judge each individual white person on their own merits

    This is a very emotional touchy subject for me, Abagond, I apreciete your patience…I wll research to find some of the origins of the anti interracial agenda, tap dancing and Armstrong, but , i did live though it and there was apoint those agendas came on the scene

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  410. @Ebonymonroe

    Thank you for taking time to clarify. I was a bit confused to be honest on whether or not you were saying black pride is based on if you marry black, but now that you clarified I do agree.

    Like


  411. abagond,

    When I made that statement I wasn’t thinking of this thread specifically, but it has been implied.

    The idea that interracial marriage is ok between blacks and other non-whites implies white people are uniquely evil.

    From Adeen’s first comment on this thread:

    ” I oppose interracial relationships between Black people and White people. However I don’t oppose any other interracial pairings besides Blacks and Whites.

    For starters, White people are our enemies. It doesn’t make sense to date someone who is your enemy. And most White Americans are very racist and teach their children not to date or marry Black people.”

    Like


  412. @ phoebeprunelle

    Ah, I see you’re pretty up on the UK. Just to play devil’s advocate here for a minute, the question is, if the more pronounced barriers weren’t there for African Americans, would you end up the same way as the Afro Caribbean community in the UK? Or is the BM vs. BW, light skin/dark skin, Eurocentric Black images in your culture (Hip hop videos), White is right mentality, etc; hatred online, restricted to online over there, or is it just as apparent? Just out of curiosity. I assumed it was due to the high amount of interracial marriage between BM/Other like AW/WM.

    Like


  413. “Peanut

    for some reason you just can’t fathom that some black women just are only interested in Black men it doesn’t register with you

    @ Sondis”

    You’re purposely, missing my point.

    Its not that i don’t knowledge, that there are some black women out there that are only interested in black men. Just like there are black men, that are only for

    Your whole message is that, black women as a whole and in general are only for black men, more so than black men. This is what i am challenging, black women today or no more for their black men, than black men are for black women.

    Go on any interracial dating site, see 100’s of thousands of black women, that are actively looking, specifically for WHITE MEN and or are open to dating white men in conjunction with dating black men as well as any other racial group.

    This whole black women, being loyal to black men is so 60’s 70’s but in 2013, its dead as disco!

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  414. “abagond

    @ Sondis @ Sharina: Comments deleted for using insulting language.”

    Fair enough…

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  415. @ Soulsearch

    I AGREE! There seems to be this idea that hispanics, Middle Easteners, Asians, etc, are not ever as racist as Whites, which is simply not true at all. I completely oppose that line of thinking. I’d marry interracially but… not White people. I’ve heard someone say “I’d marry a White woman, but not if she has blonde hair and blue eyes because that would be giving in.” (Face…hands.)

    Really, interracial marriage is interracial marriage. In my opinion, as long as the person is open to learning of your culture and experience; if I was with someone outside of my race, I’m risking the same ignorance because they’re not Black and have quite possibly been “miseducated” on what “Blackness” is, or on “The Black experience”. Although, being with someone who is Black runs the risk of coming across internal anti-Black attitudes; many of which I have encountered sadly. (Face… hands.)

    Being White would not make any difference to me. But that’s just how I see it.

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  416. @Ebony,

    if the more pronounced barriers weren’t there for African Americans, would you end up the same way as the Afro Caribbean community in the UK?

    Yes…in fact this is already the case in certain Black communities in the U.S. My point earlier was to highlight some thing i have noticed about Black people living in majority white countries–Black people will be “allowed” some access to whites sexual– particularly African men and Caucasian women couples will represent the initial surge because she (white woman) was once “unattainable” (this is true in the U.K., the U.S. Brazil and South Africa)…

    Or is the BM vs. BW, light skin/dark skin, Eurocentric Black images in your culture (Hip hop videos), White is right mentality, etc; hatred online, restricted to online over there, or is it just as apparent?

    This is prevalent anywhere Black people live and have access to various forms of media…

    I hope i’m clearer now?

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  417. Black people will be “allowed” some access to whites sexual–

    That should read “Black people will be “allowed” some access to whites sexually”

    Like


  418. @ Sharina

    No problem sweetheart. Some people take it to the extreme and preach that we should die alone before we marry out. As though dying alone, celebate, and childless will help the cause. (Face… hands)

    @ Sondis

    How dare you? I’ll have you know that whenever Diana Ross’ “My Piano,” “Love hangover,” or Donna Summers’ “Love to love you baby,” plays, I’m quite inclined to shimmy across the room. I resent such a statement.

    Like


  419. Also my last response to Ebony shouldn’t be in blockquotes…

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  420. “Alicia

    What’s sad about this topic is the divisiveness. Black women posters keep dogging out black men and totally IGNORE The fact that many Black WOMEN also prefer white men or pretend white men are saviors and also dog out black men. Some of the black mens posts are focused on Black women.

    It’s sad because if you open your eyes, you will see both black men AND black women are doing the dogging out of the opposite sex when it comes to blacks.”

    I agree 100% Sista….

    Like


  421. “Ebonymonroe:

    @ Sondis

    How dare you? I’ll have you know that whenever Diana Ross’ “My Piano,” “Love hangover,” or Donna Summers’ “Love to love you baby,” plays, I’m quite inclined to shimmy across the room. I resent such a statement.”

    I’m fine, thanks for asking. I see you shimmy… ^_^

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  422. @Phoebeprunelle

    I see, I get what you were saying now, and I agree.

    The fact that it, (the AA community), would end up that way, if given the chance, is what is so disturbing to me.

    I believe that the “say what I like” attitude, that is associated with reaching your 50’s, has filtered down to the mid 20’s, now, in our increasingly hedonistic world. So as I approach my mid 20’s, I must say, I think this fact is pathetic.

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  423. Abagond, the reason I say the REDCultural revolution is relevant for me, is because, where you might not see it on this thread the “all white people are the oppresor”, it absolutly has been thrown out there on other threads…absolutly…TroganPam for sure…among others

    You know, some people on the blog were debating the meaning of racism, I mean we dont have a clear definition of racism on the table, but , you know, Im of a mind to say yeah, white people invented racism , so only white people can be racist…and other people can be bigoted, prejudice or biased…so ‘white racism” is a singular aspect, there is no other aspect to measure it up to, so, if someone is saying all white people are the oppressor and white people and the West are the most destructive of all…which has been said , too, then under the context of man’s humanity to man , which white racism and the genocides of the West are truly a part of…then if someone argues the reason to criticise someone for dating a white person is, he is the “oppresor”. america, by being racist, is the most violent worst place a POC can live,not stated, but truly implied…then the only way to debate that is bring up other mass examples of man’s inhumanity to man, since the white man is the only racist among them(if we agree on that) no other group can be proved racist (the hiarchy in the Asian dynamic is a broad and huge one with their own versions of discrimination and bias between groups and countries, but, Ill agree to not call it racist) so, to answer a constant barrage of how evil america is (you know that is a theme on here) , how evil white people and the West are , then the comparing factor is man’s inhumanity to man…since no other group can be racist ( in whatever semantical debate that holds up to) and it is fully legitimit to do it

    white people went into Africa for slaves because of the racism they invented, how do you classify Arab’s going into Africa pulling out as many black Africans, many specificly for rape in a harem? If they are not racist they surly are practicing man’s innhumanity to man, and can be compared to the white racists, or the man’s inhumanity to man fromAsians…racism isnt the comparison measure, man’s inhumanity to man is, and if people use the “white oppresor argument,the bwhite people and the West were the worst of all” in arguments against interracial relationships, and they have been used on other threads, than countering that other groups practiced just as bad man’s inhumanity to man , and that is not a reason to critisice someone elses desician for going out with a white person is a legitimate argument

    Again, I have nothing at all against anyone if people use those reasons for not dating a white person, but trying to make that the mandate not to date white people, and psycho analyse others who do, deserves to know man’sninhumanity to man is not a reason to mandate others to not interracialy date

    There is a differance from, “white people are the oppressor , and committed the worst acts in history, I chose not to date them” and”white people are the oppressor nd commited the worst acts in history, no POC should be in an interracial relationship with a white person , you should get out of bed with them”..and deserves a responce that the white man is not the only group that committed man’s inhumanity to man

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  424. Eboniy,

    “I will just say this; if African Americans who have worked into the middle class are marrying out the most (particularly AA men), and are becoming disconnected with a sense of community and Black legacy, their children are also likely to be disconnected, marry out, and at that point the family will almost be (or look), White. It cannot be a coincidence that Asian women and Black men marry out the most, and according to White supremacist ideals of femininity and masculinity, which their choices usually match. (General statement, and not a reflection of any/every AW/WM or AAM/WW couples). But, it is very obvious.”

    It’s not that they are marrying out. It’s that they are moving out. The moving out facilitates the marrying out. if a black/non-black couple lived in a majority black neighborhood there would be no disconnect. If a black/black couple lived in a majority white neighborhood there will still be a disconnect.

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  425. Ebonymonroe
    In the UK 50% of Afro Caribbean men marry White women, and 35% of Afro Caribbean women marry White men; I wonder if the African American community will end up going in the same way?
    Personally, I’m not against interracial relationships/marriages. I’m the product of one

    pretty much everything that plagues you plagues us 100 times worse, because we are such a small population and we have never has a major Black pride movement like you have. We are not let in because racism doesn’t exist, we go in because it does.”

    Linda says,

    It’s taken me a while to catch up on the last few posts but I must say, as usual, this topic swings between vile to civil.

    Thank you D and Ebonymonroe for trying to bring the intellectual into the topic because it is an emotional lightenting rod for black people living in America and seems to bring out the ugly.

    Ebonymonroe, some thing you said echo my own thoughts on this topic and being Caribbean with many ties to UK, your assessment, to me, seems right on point.

    I might add my take on the “whys” of why my Caribbean brethren find it easy to “marry out” racially than Africans. My opinion, it seems that African commonwealth brethren didn’t buy into and drink as much of the British “Motherland” punch as the West Indians.

    I might be wrong but I believe the majority of Africans held on to their Ethnicity, Traditions, and Culture despite Imperialism/Colonialism — they held on to their sense of self and know “who they are” – whereas, Afro-Caribbeans had to redefine who they were and British traditions and mindset played a large part in the definition of “self”. (I am aware that African colonies were affected and influenced by the Europeans but not to the point as the African slave descendants in the Caribbean)

    Don’t forget that in the Caribbean, slavery produced the “brown” class, which was able to flourish because the white fathers acknowledged and educated their mixed-race children.

    “James Stewart, an Englishman who lived for some time in Jamaica, also observed that men of color were divided by society into three classes. The first was the offspring of (white) men of fortune, who were sent to Great Britain to receive a liberal educated and expected to inherit independent fortunes. Next came the offspring of men in moderate circumstances, who gave their children a plain education and left the bulk of property among their children at their death. Finally, there were the men who did not have the means or inclination to provide for their children, which he noted as the most numerous class.”

    http://scholar.library.miami.edu/emancipation/culture4.htm

    This idea of procreating with “white or light-skinned” in order to go up the social or financial ladder is a mindset that started during slavery in the Caribbean and continues even now — and the Caribbean immigrants who went home to “mother England” took this mindset with them – they are products of the environment that European slavery in the Caribbean created.

    And unlike America, there were no Legal laws or barriers (like Jim Crow) in the UK or Caribbean, set in place to Restrict black or brown people or keep them from intermarrying or interacting with whites in a social setting – nothing tangible that you can point to on paper that can be challenged or erased.

    And I believe, therein lies the main problem for Caribbeans and Africans in the UK and why our “black pride/civil rights movement” was weak to ridiculous – there was nothing in writing (tangible) to fight against – everything comes down to “intangible behaviors and attitudes” that white society can “poo poo” away and say it’s the figment of black/coloured peoples imaginations.

    This “intangible” marginalization from white society is what black Americans are dealing with now in the USA – this is where their frustration is coming from, even though their Civil Rights movement removed the tangible barriers.

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  426. @ Linda

    Please don’t tell me you read through all these comments???

    And you know how these conversations goes. polite….somewhat polite….somewhat rude…rude….vile. LOL

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  427. Abagond, Id like to say, Im sorry for bringing anger and edge to your blog on this thread..I have anger issues about anti interracial sex…Ive been interracialy dating for close to 5 decades, the initial attemted physical intimidations , the inevitable stares that show up , seeing my sensitive wife brace herself to go out to deal with potential stares…it builds up

    no one on here is verbaly acosting anyone on the street , they are giving their opinions

    and, why am i arguing this? I lived my beautiful life ,the last 28 years in an interracial mairedge, with a wonderful mixed race son…both Afro descendants , both deeply involved and steeped inAfro disporic culture, and I live in one of the most mixed Afro diasporic places on earth

    the anti interracial sex advocates are on the losing side of history, mixed race couples are just going to grow and grow and grow…some will be for the wrong reasons, others will make it work, and have beautiful families…some will just have good mutualy satisfying sex…what isnt on the losing side is fighting white racism

    i put responsibility in interracial relationships with white people, on white people, to look inside and let go of cultural barriors, to have the understanding of the obstacles and dificulties their partner has had to endure , and to help protect them against the racist white agendas, as their partner will have their back

    Im going to try to say less, and be less angry , thee is no need to be angry, I have already won in my life

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  428. @ Peanut

    I understand what you mean and what you are saying, but on that same note you can’t let those type of black men get you down. Though I must ask…what is the anger that black men (not all) carry for black women? Why? I don’t understand it.

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  429. I will admit I was naive about it, but i am beginning to pay more mind to it as I am online. It is like some men out there want black women to be as bitter and angry as they are.

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  430. where do you live Peanut? And what about Black women who do the same? You and maxine have to stop putting emotion into this black men IR dating thing because:

    1. Black women date and marry out alot too, including many of the celebrities. How would you and others here feel if black men got all angry and emotional over Haale Berry, and others? It would be pathetic, wouldnt it?

    2. Black women down black men too. In the media, all over the net and elsewhere. Heck, I felt like the weird one a while back when I went to an event and had about 5 black women around me all seeming so ever to date white men. It’s weird to me since hit men in general down black women!

    3. It’s society and whites who won’t let black men show love or preference for black women, believe me.

    Most Black men however, are with black women.

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  431. Above I meant, the group of Black women I was with all kept mentioning how they were so open and wanted to date white men,

    And of course I know Haale is spelled Halle.

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  432. And unlike America, there were no Legal laws or barriers (like Jim Crow) in the UK or Caribbean, set in place to Restrict black or brown people or keep them from intermarrying or interacting with whites in a social setting – nothing tangible that you can point to on paper that can be challenged or erased.

    A-ha! I see you have embraced my theory that this is because the Black population in the U.K. was never “large” to begin with…had it been there would have surely been severe sexual restrictions..particularly harsh for Black men…

    This is also true in “pockets” in the U.S…

    Places like Utah, Idaho, Oregon, Washington (state), Wyoming, etc the Black people marry whites more frequently and do not experience social “push-back” because they make an insignificant number of the population…

    For decades, Black Americans had been sold on the idea that the North was less racist than the South, but in all honesty, the Northern states historically never had a high population of Blacks to make it necessary to enforce social restrictions. The Blacks in the South (due to our relatively high numbers) faced Jim Crow, and to this day, Black people in the South are more likely to be poorer and live in “ghettos” than Blacks anywhere else in America. Since economics is the base for power this arrangement is a win-win for whites because they can still control to a certain degree who has access to whom sexually.

    Like


  433. Peanut:

    “at the end of the day look at the stats, who is dating out mORE…not Black women.”

    what stats? you constantly push these, supposed “stats” but don’t post any stats from any source, reliable or not.

    “its plain as day who is more loyal and if black women are starting to go for white men more it’s BECAUSE of Black men shunning Black women”

    The logic in this statement makes no sense, you interpret a “supposed” loyalty by black women, simply because the majority of black women, date and or marry black men??? So i guess its not because, the majority of black men and women in America, Marry and date within their own race??? black people, marrying out of their race is a MINORITY, so it makes perfect sense that a black women AND a black man, will end up together, being the majority of blacks live with other backs. Not some sort of “loyalty by black women that you keep, spewing all over the place as if black women are so pro-black in 2013.

    “you know the ID inside of me would LOVE to get with a white man just because of how many Black men say no one wants Black women, and how many Black men reject Black women…that’s the devious, ID inside me, but the superego, moral part of me KNOWS that is not right behavior and that wouldn’t be fair to Black women, white men, Black men or anyone else and I WILL NOT allow myself to stoop to that level”

    You’re coming off like you’re doing black men a favor by making such a statement like this, black men don’t need your pity. they need your love and support, so spare me with your false loyalty for black men, its pathetic at best and pandering at least.

    “but the point is…the reason I feel that way is because of certain Black men who shun and demean Black women, men like Tommy Sotomayor”

    You really are bitter, aren’t you? You judge all black men by the men you have come across and also by strangers on the internet, that make a living off bashing black women?? This speaks for itself, if not just seeing that you’re obviously a scorned woman from your past, relationships.

    “there is NO BLACK WOMAN equivalent to a tommy sotomayor, no matter how you want to spin it BWE DOESN’T EVEN COME CLOSE, so don’t go there.”

    who says, you? they exists and i have watched their videos on youtube but you as a black woman in all your black man hating rants, wouldn’t even try to look for these type of black women, because i would prove you wrong.

    “it’s disgusting the way some Black men behave and you sondis and other black men dont’ do enough to call that bs out you just want to sit back and pretend it’s all equal when it’s all not.”

    So you get to decide, what amount of calling out is acceptable and what isn’t? Last i checked, i was on topic, speaking about how white men, look at black women as sexual objects within an interracial relationship.

    You on the other hand, have been changing the subject matter into talking about black women are more loyal than black men and how me and other black men on this blog, are not doing enough to call out bs.

    This is typical, every time an articles is posted about black and white relationships, the topic turns into bashing black men about what they do and how they treat, black women.

    I never ONCE, seen a black man on this blog, EVER speak about what black women do in response to a article about black men, dating white women, black men only respond to black women’s bashing of them.

    “you haven’t seen Black women running after white men and shunning Black men (the way some black men do”

    How can you tell me and other black men, what we do and don’t see?

    Again, I’ve seen with my own eyes on just one interracial site that has black women, specifying “WHITE ONLY, NO BLACK MEN CONTACT ME, I AM NOT INTERESTED IN BLACK MEN, THIS IS A INTERRACIAL SITE, I PREFER WHITE MEN”

    This is just one example of the extreme in your face, hatred of black men and worshiping of white men by black women.

    I am not telling you, that black men are so loyal to black women. I am simply saying that its not more or less on either side, being black men and women are both victims of white supremacy.

    This white supremacy plays out in our loves lives as well as other areas of our lives.

    Like


  434. “who says, you? they exists and i have watched their videos on youtube but you as a black woman in all your black man hating rants, wouldn’t even try to look for these type of black women, because i would prove you wrong.”—I actually did, but found nothing more than this.

    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tT3GIth-Qwk)

    Like


  435. Connecting minority shops with customers:

    References to “black wall street” in Talsa,Oklahoma

    black unemployment rate, twice that of the national average

    African America consumer spending 967 billion in 2012!!

    This number is expected to increase to 1.1 Trillion by 2015!!

    in 1921, it took a year for a black dollar to leave the community but today our dollar leave the black community, every 15 minutes!

    (http://youtu.be/6wDtyr4cPV0)

    Like


  436. Wow, I haven’t been on here in a LOOOONG time! LOL

    But I have been reading this thread and didn’t expect it to go all out like that. (Especially the BW/MM bit)

    In all honesty, on both sides when it comes down to it. It’s a 2-way street. In this young generation, color is holding less weight of water. People are breaking away from that “Stick to your own” mentality both BM and BW. The only blacks that I know that will hold on to those beliefs are…those that are born back in the days(50’s-80’s, a lil bit from the 90’s) or black militant.

    I understand what both sides are saying, but this can be said with other female/male arguments. But in my all honesty, BW are still being bashed. At the end of the day, I don’t hear many “truth” vids/blogs from BW in the same style as those of Tommy/Sarge. The only “BM” basher”(If you wanna call her that) was from MsProphet on YT(I believe that was her name) Who made that ONE infamous vid, called “Why I don’t date black men or “Black men are a-holes(I forgot the title, but look her up if she’s still there)
    I saw the vid and I mostly agreed to what she was saying.I thought it was a decent video UNTIL strangely black men flagged that vid up. As soon as she made that vid, COUNTLESS Vid responses on youtube/blogs/discussions….shoot it even made to WSHH!(That’s saying a lot) And what I found soooo hypocritical/hilarious about the whole thing. A lot of these so called “BM” were crying, because for once ONE BW had not so good things to say about them and they didn’t like it. (All those times screaming that BW can’t handle, but when it’s flipped around. Everyone wanna cry foul).

    And the things they said to her was a mess. “Oh she’s a b—-” “She doesn’t have a man” “Ghetto hoodrat” and my fav “SHE’S….A…BITTER….BLACK…WOMAN”. (Just look at the responses on YT) All the brotha’s was pissed and in some cases were even checking black women for not calling her out OR giving applause/kisses to the one’s that were. But in my head and so many others, what was so dang controversial about what she said? This ONE woman? And you know what killed me the most, there were HUNDREDS of angry responses to msprophet and her followers checking and letting her know that hey, “Not all black men are like that” or “You haven’t met all black men”. BUT why couldn’t it be said the other way around?.
    SMH

    Like


  437. pt2.

    There are a lot of double standards when it comes to this discussion and instigators in the midst like.

    1.The bitter blk man- Nothing, but negativity. The only thing positive thing he has to say is what the non-black women are doing with themselves.(Not wearing weaves, not giving attitudes and being not FAT & UGLY)

    2.Beta males-All they do is put the “brotha’s on game”.(whatever that means) They swear up and down, that ALL black women want these mysterious Benz/Mercedes driving, Gold/diamonds wearing fools to come sweep them up their feet. The only way to combat that is check, check AND CHECK! These chicks. Their fav hobbies: Giving horrible dating advice and lurking where there is a attractive woman getting attention. Fav phrases: Capt. Save a hoe, Simpin, ,Thirsty and lames.

    1. The Victim- One negative comment about 1 other black woman and she’ll think you’re talking about her. And the whole discussion will get derailed and become a blaming fest. And it’ll come down to her really being insecure.

    2. The bitter blk women- Same as the male counterpart. But it’s obvious to point her out and no one takers her seriously.(Same can’t be said for the male though)

    These are just my encounters and don’t reflect on anyone here. But like I said, it’s a 2-way street and these same standards/complaints can be said for any female/male drama.

    But at the same time, be realistic. BW have always been giving the low luck of the draw. Regardless of what you guys have to say, even you know something is up if you have have to tell black women to “ignore” these other guys, “look past that” and see you’re not like the “rest”. It’s a serious problem.

    @Sondis

    I understand your frustration. but take in consideration this is what it feels like to be ignored and casted aside. Like we always are

    @Peanut

    I understand your frustration as well.

    This is why I hate to have these discussions it brings out the bad in us and overlooks the good.

    Like


  438. there is male privilege yes even black males have it, ask urself is there a day dedicated to a black woman? is there a Bessie coleman day, harriet tubman, sojourner truth day. no there is mlk day, but I know that is kinda off topic but the point is black women are ignored a lot of times and if we are ignored in games, movies, celebrations we are also sometimes ignored in dating. Now as for some black women yes unfortunately there are some black women that do diss black men and I hate to say it but some black women were going on talk shows before my time and talking about black men. I’m not saying we shouldn’t tell each other how we feel but doing it through the media and youtube is lame that imo is immature if u have an issue with someone tell them don’t go on national tv or youtube and talk about them. It is like seeing ppl complain about their mate to their single friends, but in this case replace those single friends with white ppl whispering in ur ear and saying girl u should leave him or man leave that b alone. That is what happens u take it publicly and then the white experts try to play the helping game and unfortunately negativity is a market and they get endorsements. Some black men do go in on black women but I avoid anti black, black ppl altogether not everybody is my brotha or sista simple as that. there will always be uncle tommys and aunt jemimas.

    Like


  439. I have seen comments on some youtube vids like awkward black girl of some black women being like yeah get that white chocolate, then when someone calls them out they say well black men do it too or something to get revenge on black males. So if a black male or any other male does something I will not follow them if they go and sky dive or something, trust that I will be on the ground. I’m not following any man off a cliff or some crazy shish, but anyway if some black males bash black women and date out rofl that is good imo as I don’t want a man that is anti himself, a house divided cannot stand. Unfortunately it does seem like positive balanced black men and women are a rarity and we can go back n forth about why that is ,but its a combination of reasons why that I won’t go into. be loyal to yourself as nobody not even family at times will stand by u or understand u.

    Like


  440. i’m not saying some black men don’t do things too, but what does being like u are worse than me, gonna fix? There are things men do that annoy me and I know as a female that same behavior would not be tolerated from me, but at the same time I don’t want to be like them, if women did everything that men did civilization would be very corrupt. From our unique position we can see and sense things others can’t because we have learned to depend more on our senses and smarts while others depend on their privilege.

    Like


  441. @mstoogood4yall

    Well said!

    Like


  442. Oh and love the new pic

    Like


  443. ^ thanks I chose it because of the lion and to me the pic is saying i’m fly like the birds and strong like the lion lol. or even deeper i’m graceful like the birds and fearless like the lion and the girl in the pic is shielding her eyes because the future is so bright. rofl let me stop..

    Like


  444. on Wed 16 Oct 2013 at 03:15:40 PersonaNonGrata

    Peanut,

    I know you mean well, but please wake up and STOP BEGGING BLACK MEN FOR RECIPROCITY!

    Newsflash: You’re not gonna get it.

    It’s falling on deaf ears, and they’re ripping into you because they don’t believe you. I find it rather irritating how you get spastic on here, and then apologize and grovel the next.

    Get a backbone and a clue already…really.

    Placing the black man on a pedestal hasn’t won you any points, but a few Scooby snacks from Abagond when he feels like tossing them to you.

    And for what? For you to do the same damn thing all over again on this board whenever such subjects like these arise.

    Again, you mean well, but you need to wake up and realize that a lot black men are not in your corner. They love all the sniveling and groveling that you do, and yet you get nothing back in return.

    Tends to get a bit tiring, don’t ya think?

    Like


  445. I think it or more of they don’t care rather than they don’t believe, but I tomorrow I think I will make a final post ob my thoughts and retire to observation.

    Like


  446. “PersonaNonGrata

    Peanut,

    I know you mean well, but please wake up and STOP BEGGING BLACK MEN FOR RECIPROCITY!

    Newsflash: You’re not gonna get it.

    It’s falling on deaf ears, and they’re ripping into you because they don’t believe you. I find it rather irritating how you get spastic on here, and then apologize and grovel the next.

    Get a backbone and a clue already…really.

    Placing the black man on a pedestal hasn’t won you any points, but a few Scooby snacks from Abagond when he feels like tossing them to you.

    And for what? For you to do the same damn thing all over again on this board whenever such subjects like these arise.

    Again, you mean well, but you need to wake up and realize that a lot black men are not in your corner. They love all the sniveling and groveling that you do, and yet you get nothing back in return.

    Tends to get a bit tiring, don’t ya think?”

    Now this seems very suspect to me, i smell a white sock puppet, that’s trying to instigate.

    I never saw this screen name before on this blog, this person comes out of nowhere and instigates and at the same time, bashing Abagond.

    I would watch anything this person says, black people. I may have my differences my black people on here but don’t get it twisted, i know when i smell a white racist, trying to fuel the flames, amongst black folk.

    I’m asking everyone to watch this one…

    Like


  447. ^ oh yes I am watching this one as when I saw the name and I never saw that name before I did think hmm, and then addressing peanut as if they know her. like really when I come on a new website I don’t address ppl in a tough love or condescending way. u gotta know somebody for a little bit and talk to them before judging and giving out advice to them. I mean come on it’s not gonna work because who listens to a stranger that they don’t know the intentions of and the way they say things. Again the way ppl say things comes off wrong especially when u start cussing and being like oh and u make me sick the way u beg blah blah blah.

    @ peanut

    thanks I try lol, the older ppl on these blogs give me wisdom as well as the creator.

    Like


  448. Dang. I thought it was one of those “in and out commenter’s” that pop up here and there and disappear for a while.

    I do agree though….seems like someone who has interacted with her prior.

    Like


  449. “mstoogood4yall

    ^ oh yes I am watching this one as when I saw the name and I never saw that name before I did think hmm, and then addressing peanut as if they know her. like really when I come on a new website I don’t address ppl in a tough love or condescending way. u gotta know somebody for a little bit and talk to them before judging and giving out advice to them. I mean come on it’s not gonna work because who listens to a stranger that they don’t know the intentions of and the way they say things. Again the way ppl say things comes off wrong especially when u start cussing and being like oh and u make me sick the way u beg blah blah blah.”

    I’m glad i’m not the only one that saw, PersonaNonGrata’s comments suspect.

    Peanut fell for it, hook line and sink. This is typical of white men and women to join a black blog to instigate a heated debate, amongst ourselves.

    All in all, i have my differences with some black people on this blog but listen here…

    It’s not coming from hate or malice, unlike white people that have an agenda to keep black men and women, apart.

    What i say to my black people, comes from a genuine concern. no matter how you slice it. I’m black, so i can talk to my black folk in a critical way.

    Like


  450. oh goodness is it another one of asplunds crazy exes rofl lmbao

    Like


  451. or should I say sock puppet psycho girlfriend lol

    Like


  452. on Wed 16 Oct 2013 at 04:03:28 PersonaNonGrata

    ^^^^

    Another Mammy….LOL!!!

    Not a sock-puppet, but a keen observer. And you’re really no better than Peanut, the emotional beggar for black male acceptance.

    Line up for that Scooby snack, girly. You did good…

    Like


  453. @ Soulsearch

    I don’t live in the city of London anymore; the Black population over here is much smaller, I live in the middle class & yet I encounter members of the Black British everyday. As “D” said, 50% of African Americans are middle class, so it’s not as if you won’t come across a potential African American mate. Yes, you’re more likely to encounter Whites because they’re more numerous, my gripe is when Blacks sing “we are the world, we are the future, Black is an illusion let’s all join hands,” as though building a flourishing Black middle class, filled with stable, healthy nuclear Black families, (Black men and women), wouldn’t be significant and powerful for the Black community at large.

    You’ve taken exerts from my posts where it can be said “you can do that with a non Black spouse, too” as opposed to comprehending the essence of my position. Black women outnumber everyone in college attendance, even Asian men. So they are moving into middle America faster than Black men, and yet AA men marry out far more. So it has nothing to do with being in the middle class.

    I see the difference between Africans and Afro Caribbeans in the UK, and I think there is somewhat of a similarity between Afro Caribbeans and African Americans, as many of you seem to have the same mind set Afro Caribbeans have. Many African families have been here for years. They excel in higher education, corporate England, they build their own businesses, they marry one another, their marriages last. They have a sense of community, an attachment to their culture, they have an agenda to be collectively upwardly mobile, together. They own homes, they have spread out across the middle and upper middle class in the UK, but they are very much unified and connected to their community.

    It hasn’t got anything to do with just moving into the middle class, Afro Caribbeans will say that and so will African Americans, but Africans don’t. But which group is usually succeeding the most in the Western world? That’s right, Africans are.

    As I’ve said, I’m not against interracial marriage, I just find it pathetic how many in the Western Black diaspora champion it like no other group, and find the idea of marrying out, far more appealing, more beautiful, and even important, than marrying one of your own. We’re some conquered suckas.

    Like


  454. @ Linda

    Thank you very much, I appreciate your contribution to the conversation and I agree with everything you said 100%

    Like


  455. on Wed 16 Oct 2013 at 04:17:24 PersonaNonGrata

    “We’re some conquered suckas.”

    You mean YOU’RE the conquered sucka, right?

    Speak for nobody but yourself, thanks🙂

    You mammies are a trip, as if you’re the voice for all black people….

    Like


  456. naija girl is that u, rofl. u went from calling us akatas to mammies wow

    Like


  457. on second thought it may not be naiji girl could be Maxine sounds the same going at peanut here’s a comment Maxine made on the black women loyalty and black men thread kinda sounds like the above. here it is

    “PEANUT IS DELUDED LOL

    she will be the type of black women that will support/love and kill for black love,yet she doesn’t see the obvious-that more and more black men are dating out.
    There are lots of black on black relationships and these are around but for how long?
    While certain bm date out when relationships fail with black sisters,bw rather than date out remain the all embarrassing ‘black single women’ statistic..its a great kick in the teeth to see that bm will pick the most average white women over a pretty black chick…but still sad women like Peanut is still championing bm that have long walked by
    The worse stance a bw can do is shout in support for men who largely choose white women over you-you end up looking weak and desperate,these men are not weak,indoctrinated by the system or any other..these BM do so because they give a shit about their plight-they are thinking of themselves and see white women as the winning ticket-always have and sadly always will,bm have never been loyal to bw..”

    Like


  458. I don’t agree with generalisations, but, to an extent, I’m gonna agree with “personanongrata.”

    Peanut, babygirl, you’re placing too much of your value in how Black men feel about you, as a Black woman. You must try to stop doing this.

    You speak of things you experience as a Black woman, hate speech you hear from Black men at Black women online, the statistics of, like, nearly 20% of Black men marrying out, hatred for us in our music, and the things you see everyday. But what do you get in response? You’ll be attacked for it, told you’re fat, a babymother, disloyal, masculine, aggressive, ignorant, ugly; called a hair hat. You’ll be attacked for speaking of your difficult experiences out of humanity, expecting empathy, and then accused of generalising, and then you’ll be generalised as a Black woman with the most digusting stereotypes. As if that doesn’t validate your point.

    Whenever these topics come up, I see you go through the same thing. You’ve got to stop expecting so much love and loyalty. You can have a sense of Black pride, but you must live your life for you. I’ve had two White boyfriends in the UK, dated an Israeli, dated another White guy, I’ve had three Black boyfriends, and my current long term relationship is with a Black man. When I lived in Atlanta, I dated a few Black guys, but my best relationship happened to be with a Puerto rican; my sister dated an Asian. I don’t get where you American sistas are coming from when you say there is no opportunity. You have to get out there and just live; there are great guys out there across all races. You’ve just got this imaginary era of Black love and unity in mind, that is a thing of the past. I think Sondis is a little older, things are a little different now in our generation (I assume you’re a twenty something, like me), so people on here may not be up on the relationships between young BM/BW and how bad the hatred has gotten in our time, because they’re part of a different generation. And I assume Abagond is, like, 2nd or 3rd generation American, for some reason. (I think someone said he’s Hatian). So the conscious brothas on here are a little disconnected from what young sistas go through in our generation, not understanding that not every young Black man has that same sense of consciousness that they have.

    If you didn’t put so much on Black men, it wouldn’t shake you when you encounter those who hate Black women, because your sense of value would not be dependant on their mutual love, respect, and interest. Get over the hurt, babygirl. And move on with your life, do you.

    Go watch “Foxy Brown” or “Coffy.” Workout, eat healthy, strive for the best career you can; take care of yourself, build your character (fruit of the Spirit). Then, you will have no problem getting offers left and right. Go live, baby. And make sure you walk with a mean strut. Make us proud, you know we’re known for that strut. Go on with your fine self sista.

    Like


  459. Oh great. Yet another one projecting their inadequacies. Does it not?! Rofl.

    Like


  460. My last comment was not to you Ebony. Though it might seem that way in the line up.

    Like


  461. @Phoebeprunelle I meant to add your name in there too but forget. I very much agree with what you’ve said and I’m thankful for your contributions.

    @ PersonaNonGrata

    I actually dapped your post and agreed with the essence of what you were saying. But I see you are name calling and insulting me for some reason, which is not called for. I’m going to ignore the ignorance, there is no reason for it. God bless.

    Like


  462. on Wed 16 Oct 2013 at 05:08:23 The Alchemist

    @Peanut

    PersonaNonGrata is not completely of base. Her words are a bit blunt. Your begging black men for kindness and understanding only strokes their egos and confirms for them that you are a willing emotional throw rug. They can wipe the bottom of their shoes off on you and KNOW that you will be on the floor the next day by choice. Please develop better boundaries.

    From You Tube:

    Black Women Please Stop Begging:

    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edSkLDOWVgc)

    Emotional Abuse of Black women:

    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoJuCyc1hX4)

    Like


  463. @ sondis and sharina

    One of my best teachers of all time in high school was a black woman who taught business and economics. She had a knack for talking about race and was strongly black-identified. For example, if a student was named Colin, she would start talking about Colin Powell. My favorite of all time was when she pulled out a crayon box that celebrated diversity. In it, there were crayons matching all the tones of human skin color. She said that most people assumed she was married to a “big, black man” despite her last name. In fact, her last name was Robledo and she was happily married to a Hispanic man.

    What really caught my attention was when we had to give creative presentations that advertised a product, and during one of them, a whitewashed Asian student started making self-deprecating, racist jokes about Asians. The teacher came down hard on the student and chastised him for making such a terrible mockery of his own race and warned him not to do it again.

    Like


  464. @BR, I remember when you pointed out some statistics I was using, and I found out I was using 2008 statistics instead of updated 2012 statistics. I thanked you for pointing it out to me.
    Why are you so h*ll bent over shape that I made a mistake on a statistic when I admitted that it was a based on a prior report and updated the statement?

    I never said white people are uniquely evil, but you also seem bent on saying that I implied or thought that, which I never did. I am not the only one who gets the impression that you might be derailing topics without understanding your agenda. I wonder how many people understand how your feelings about tap dancing, the Cultural Revolution and the fallacy of the Arab Trader Argument relate to interracial relationships, even after you try to explain it.

    Like


  465. @kiwi

    The teacher came down hard on the student and chastised him for making such a terrible mockery of his own race and warned him not to do it again.

    What happened afterwards? Did he continuing doing it later?

    Like


  466. I don’t know this new person. I’m on the watch list, lol.

    It’s sad but I dont even want to be reminded of Rose (Naija). In the end she was pretty damn cold hearted. But then again I caught a case of pretty bad oneitis and that’s what happens. She was a straight up ten but damn she lacked mercy.

    Like


  467. @asplund maybe it was youre not the one itis?
    @solesearch you notion of wp as some benign socialiological construct disturbs me as seriously wrong.

    Like


  468. @D.

    Good old Godwin’s Law.

    Ha-ha.

    So we need a term to call the adage regarding probabilities of comparing something in an online discussion to Mao’s social policies and the Cultural Revolution, as allegedly even more deaths are attributed to that phenomenon than even the Nazi holocaust.

    Like


  469. @BR.. I think you have to give more weight to how some Black Americans saw tap dancing. I also think it’s a stretch to link that to IRRs. We also have to remember that no matter how much we may like a particular artistic form times change along with fashion, music and style.

    The connotation of tap dancing and such was already being criticized as early as the forties if not before. Black people, including black musicians were attempting to move past the stereotype of the happy go lucky lazy black coon who lived only to entertain whites.

    In Miles Davis’ autobiography he writes
    “As much as I love Dizzy and I loved Armstrong, I always hated the way they used to laugh and grin for the audiences. I know why they did it–to make money and because they were entertainers as well as trumpet players. They had families to feed. Plus they both liked acting the clown; it’s just the way Dizzy and Satch were. I don’t have nothing against them doing it if they want to. But I didn’t like it and didn’t have to like it…They had already opened up a lot of doors for people like me to go through, and I felt that I could be just about playing my horn…that didn’t call for me grinning but just being able to play the horn good..Critics can take that or leave it.”

    James Brown and the Alvin Ailey dance troupe and various black fraternities/sororities and other organizations kept African dance alive. But as their audiences tended to be other black people, it had a completely different type of meaning than say a Bojangles Robinson. Context and audience and intent matter a great deal.

    Like


  470. Bottom line is you’re the one who has to live your life. Worrying about what decisions other people make in their intimate affairs is pointless. Marry, date or sleep with who you want. If you make a mistake and that person turns out to be no damn good or a racist or whatever, it’s on you. It’s not anyone else’s business. As is pointed out over and over again, most Americans end up marrying and/or reproducing with someone of their same race. So the anguish about IRR seems a bit misplaced. If you’re happy in your relationship you’re not worrying about what other people are doing.

    Like


  471. @kiwi

    Thanks for sharing.

    Like


  472. Actually mstoogood4yall it could still be naija girl. She was very strong on the idea of black people in here speaking for all blacks.

    Like


  473. @peanut
    My comment in another post of what I’m not subscribed to was left in jest ,I thought you were being desperate but the more I read your comments now I realize we think very alike on every single issue-more then anybody here,so apologies for that.

    Like


  474. @mstoogood4yall
    What exactly are you trying to do here
    I posted the comment on the mere sentence of something peanut said without actually listening to the rest of her argument,like me she has said this with her own voice obviously we think alike.

    Like


  475. Abagond, here is a link about a paper written in the 60’s by SNCC, that is one of the indicators of the start of putting white people out of the movement, along with the Panthers, who refered to Fannon…Im not saying this is a wrong attitude, but it lead to the mandates about being loyal to each other..and you can see that that agenda has only come down into today as a negative agenda about who can have sex with who

    http://www2.iath.virginia.edu/sixties/HTML_docs/Resources/Primary/Manifestos/SNCC_black_power.html

    with your permision, Id like to answer Shady

    Like


  476. @Jefe

    So we need a term to call the adage regarding probabilities of comparing something in an online discussion to Mao’s social policies and the Cultural Revolution, as allegedly even more deaths are attributed to that phenomenon than even the Nazi holocaust.

    Did you read the article in the link?

    There is the Yellow Peril trope, which is still quite prominent in neoliberal foreign policy. On the last episode of Real Time with Bill Maher, the obligatory conservative was trying to rationalize the bloated US defense budget by besmirching China as the world’s boogeyman.

    Like


  477. You mammies are a trip, as if you’re the voice for all black people….

    No where in Ebony’s comments did she come across as a stereotypical, obese, woman willing and happy to serve white folk and others.

    In fact, she is the ONLY Black woman who has brought some sort of intellectual reasoning to this discussion because she isn’t dealing in emotions.

    Ebony, for one i think you are a breath of fresh air! It is rare to be able to exchange dialogue with a mind who understands worldly dynamics. Keep doing what you do boo🙂.

    Phoebepru

    Like


  478. Shady, first thanks for dishing up the kind of arguments that can go more in depth…Miles reads like malcolm X sometimes huh?

    About tap, first, go to that clip and tell me if you see anything demeaning at all…i see high art…and Id like to see objections to tap from the 40’s..of tap only..people were starting to link tap to minstrel shows, but that is really too bad..no black performers could go in front of white audiences in the mid 1800’s if they werent in black face..that should tell you a lot right there..how can you crucify tap when a black performer had no choice

    in fact, the inventer of tap wasWilliam Henrey
    Lane aka Juba..he was an incredible performer, and after he gained respect,he was able to shed black face and do his own shows…that should tell you a lot too…you cant crucify the art when it was subjected to ridiculas circumstances,. When I book the shows with the samba dancers, i dont get to choose the venue, its the venue that hires me I have to work in

    the Miles Davis referance is unfair, not only does he include dizzy, who was from the black revolutionary be bop, he is answering critics for lashing him about walking off the stage and turning his back on the audience…most black artists in the black power movement days didnt do what miles did, and would smile at the audiences…as a matter of fact, Chooly Atkins , who is one of the tap dancers in the clip I brought in,was the main choreographer for motown acts…it is very foolish to bury and destroy great art and artists in the name of an agenda..you should go after the guilty ones who forced them in situations that were demeaning

    again, Miles wasnt coming from the same position at all, he admitted people like Armstrong opened the doors…Armstrong came from abject poverty, the son of a prostitute, was raised in an orphanage, this super star would pass through New Orleans on tour and go to the orphanage and take a nap..he was subjected to the very bitter racism that era had to offer..when you see interviews of him with white anouncers, he is playing them..Armstrong is the great grandfather…how could he be thrown under the bus…he should be embraced and treasured..Miles didnt throw him under the bus, or Dizzy, he was defending himself against white critics, who labeled him an angry black man..I mean dizzy never took the hit

    As the paper I brought in shows, in the sixties, a new frame of mind was cristalised in the black mocement, and it was about gaining dignity, respecvt, power, and not needing to apeal to whites..in the midst of these noble aspirations, came some flawed agendas too, like trashing tap dancing, Armstrong and demanding black loyalty in sex, when sex has nothing to do with black pride

    cmon, Shady, you know there is absolutly nothing demeaning about those tappers I brought in, its high art, they are performers who should be embraced and loved…many things were right and true about the agendas in the movement back then, those things werent…what is so hard about going back and embracing those artists and lifting the yoke off of the back of people that was a flawed agenda that only causes great inner turmoil and division…would these arguments be going on if that agenda didnt exist?Its a flawed agenda, and agendas

    Like


  479. @B. R.

    Abagond, here is a link about a paper written in the 60′s by SNCC, that is one of the indicators of the start of putting white people out of the movement, along with the Panthers, who refered to Fannon

    Yes, there was a post Civil Rights Act pessimism when it became very clear that the Civil Rights Act wasn’t pulling us out of poverty and disenfranchisement, especially in the North where the movement changed almost nothing. (I learned of this when I read Martin and Malcolm and America: A Dream of a Nightmare). This pessimism is what allowed the seeds of Black Fascism to come out in full.

    Like


  480. B. R.

    Abagond, here is a link about a paper written in the 60′s by SNCC, that is one of the indicators of the start of putting white people out of the movement, along with the Panthers, who refered to Fannon

    Yes, there was a post Civil Rights Act pessimism when it became very clear that the Civil Rights Act wasn’t pulling us out of poverty and disenfranchisement, especially in the North where the movement changed almost nothing. (I learned of this when I read Martin and Malcolm and America: A Dream of a Nightmare). This pessimism is what allowed the seeds of Black Fascism to come out in full.

    Abagond, can you delete my previous post? I messed up the url.

    Like


  481. Nope, yellow peril has nothing to do with my argument, I carefully stated that, so that doesnt aply to what Im saying at all

    Jefe
    you supported Kiwi’s statement about feeling queasy about seeing an Asian woman with a white man (amazing these people that make judgements and psycho analysis fron a distance without even knowing the people..I dont trust psychoanalysis anyway, but..a psycho analyst usualy has to talk to the patient for a few times to make his analysis, do these people have extra sensory perception?)

    you made your “thought experiment” about what if we start lynching white people in interracial relationships

    you pulled the cliche rhetorical argument of me a white person hiding behind my POC wife and son, which I flush down the toilet, there is no way you can judge me with that dogma, you who really cant discuss black culture with any depth, or, impress me , why dont you go toopen thread and enlighten me, because Id love to learn something about black culture I might not know..or tell me why you said it was weak again or clarify it

    You can think anything you want about my using the Red Culture Revolution as an argument, I explained what I meant…if it in fact is derailing this thread, it certainly sticks as a counter to your constant negative depictions of what is going on in America out side this thread, as I have said, I see america portrayed as the all evil worse force on earth where I live, and those people should be reminded in my lifetime there was something much worse than what America did to Brazil…some of their revolutuinaries trained in China..you could use your arguments against that “its Brazil, how could you talk about China when it is Brazil”…and you would be seriously wrong…it is relevant and deserves to be put in perspective

    Shady, my comment to you is in moderation

    Like


  482. @peanut
    Thanks for your acceptance I genuinely jumped the gun without reading the rest of your comments just to realize I think extrememly like you .

    Like


  483. and D what has that got to do with telling people who they can have sex with and throwing tap and Armstrong under the bus, they are flawed agendas, I address it very well in my answer to Shady that is in moderation

    (not sure why)

    or d , do you really think these discusions are healthy, up lifting, benificial?

    this is a flawed agenda that is a yoke around black people’s necks and is dragging the black narritive down and making it vulnerable to the white racists because it is so weak

    Like


  484. @peanut

    You will not cease.

    The loyalty argument is dumb argument once you dissect it.

    Is there non-BM you would rather be with romantically?

    Because any man full of pride would not want to be with a woman who is secretly lusting for another dude.

    But if you have better options, but black men are not the best choice, but you pick them.

    Well, who is the dumb one? That is disrespectful to BLACK MEN & most importantly, YOURSELF.

    The reason why you & other black women ride with this argument, is because a lot of you are Professional Victims.

    A lot of you picked the wrong kind of black men, and now we all gotta hear it.

    Again, you are not doing black men a favor by dating us.

    Be a high quality woman, and date who you want.

    Like


  485. @ Shady_Grady

    ” If you’re happy in your relationship you’re not worrying about what other people are doing.”—I agree but many of the individuals who find themselves upset about any type of relationship are not in one. SO the question becomes…is it the fact that it is a irr or is it the relationship in general?

    Like


  486. Because I feel like many others in here have echoed my feelings in regards to the subject, I won’t go on repeat.

    Like


  487. I think some of you need to move ASAP. Location, Location, Location. It must be very lonely being a black woman in an area or space where black women are not appreciated. Believe me, I have been there before in non-black areas where there’s been times where I’ve felt like that. Especially around white people where not only are we not appreciated, but under constant attack. Move ladies whom are complaining so you can experience the fact that in many areas black men and women are having good relations and black people are often hard working with ambitious and of sound minds.

    I will restate that many black women do the same thing some of you are claiming black MEN do, which is down the opposite gender, claim white is better and so on.

    Most black male celebrities and everyday black men are actually, of course with Black women. You think they didn’t have OPTIONS to date other especially maybe Hispanic or White, but they CHOOSE Black women because it’s only natural just as men of all races prefer the women of their own race.

    I used to think black men didn’t care for black women too until I grew up and matured and opened my eyes to how white society tries to get black men to abandon black women, how black men have a threat over their head to prefer white women and dog black women. White society weirdly wants black women to be shunned and black men have so far NOT done that by and large so Black men deserve our praise more than anything else.

    The whole time I would be concerned with that odd IR couple, I grew out of it and have realized, 90% of the other couples were always black male/black woman.

    It’s all about what you focus on and you would not want black men to harp on who black women or black female celebrities date or that occasional black woman/other race couple, so let’s not do it to them.

    Like


  488. @phoebeprunelle

    Awww! miss lady, thank-you.

    @ Peanut

    It’s not just what you say, it’s what you feel, which comes from the way you think. You expect waaay too much from Black men. You’re gonna have to (as the good book says) “renew your mind.” You’re projecting ideals unto Black men that are just not realistic. Your voice telling you you’re are “all that,” needs to be enough. If you can develope that, no man or woman, Black or White, will make you flinch, and that’s just the how it should be. I for one looove being a Black woman, I wouldn’t want to be anything else.

    And if a man didn’t want me, when I come through, even with my tanned skin, my big floppy version of a Pam Grier afro, my extreme hip to waist ratio, the edge in the way I walk and talk, the natural rhythm in my body when the music starts, my pouty kiss, the smell of my Caribbean cooking, my mind, (which is forced to grow, to assess everything around me with wisdom and accumulated knowledge, I cannot afford not to have as a Black woman), my loyalty, humanity, compassion, and laughter, not because of what I haven’t been through as a Black woman, but DESPITE what I HAVE been through. If a dude didn’t want me, I’d truly be shocked. Let me tell you something, Prince lied, he named “Vanity” after me. That’s the way it is, and that’s the way it always will be.

    You can’t spend the rest of your life hurting like this, every time this topic comes up. If I was there I’d force you to look at pictures I’ve found of Black women. You wouldn’t be phased by anyone putting you down ever again, if you could see what I see in Black women.

    And let me tell you something that will rub some up the wrong way. Whenever I walk past Black men with non Black women, the brothas stare at me for some reason, as though they want to jump back over, this makes me confused. It is uncomfortable when they actually strain their necks while they walk with their partner. But you’ve got to know what you’ve got first, babygirl.

    I just keep it moving.

    Like


  489. B. R.

    So I made my last comment without reading your link B.R., which is bad form on my part. It seems to me that the sentiments expressed in that article weren’t fascist, but instead pushes for Afro-American Sovereignty. There is nothing unusual with wanting to part ways with a society that does not honor your rights and/or humanity; the US has done so, Haiti has done so, most of Latin America has done so, Native Americans have strived for that same political goal for years now. Regrettably, some people apply this agenda to their sex lives and expect others to do the same.

    There’s no reason why White people can’t be involved in theory, but theory is a treacherous thing and most White Americans, Liberal and Conservative, tend to lose control of their bowels at the prospect of Afro-American sovereignty.

    So it goes back to the question, “Do you attack bigotry, or power?” Defeating anti-Black bigotry has proven to be all but impossible, but many people around the globe have achieved greater power by gaining independence from an oppressive society with far fewer resources than we have.

    It goes without saying that it’s a controversial agenda. We could try to unite the world in our shared humanity, but such a thing has never been done in 6000 years since the first city-states rose. On the other hand, the Age of Empires is over and nation-states are rising across the Earth: South Sudan, The Western Sahara, The Republic of Lakotah, etc. Remember that we are not merely a race, we are an Ethnicity with an identity, culture, and history that is unique to us and us alone. All that bars us from being a nation is the lack of territory to call our own.

    My 2¢ are this: there is an agenda being pushed by Liberals and Conservatives that claims that America was always meant to be a country where everyone is equal, and that Slavery, Jim Crow, Internment Camps, and Native American genocide were simply mistakes that don’t reflect the ideas that America was founded upon. This is a beautiful lie; America was born a White Supremacist Republic. Our freedom and citizenship were never a part of the Founders’ intentions. The implications of this line, written by a man who owned people as property, are crystal clear:

    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

    We are not men & women in America’s eyes. Whatever grand sweeping statements of freedom and equality are rendered null and void when applied to the Black body time and time again throughout America’s past and present. It is neither a mistake, nor a sad coincidence, nor a deviation from the blueprint. Rather, it is by design. This is American White Supremacy, and we must accept it as a constant and intrinsic aspect of American culture, society, and politics. If African American independence is born from that realization, then so be it.

    Like


  490. @ Alicia

    “It’s all about what you focus on and you would not want black men to harp on who black women or black female celebrities date or that occasional black woman/other race couple, so let’s not do it to them.”—I hate to say this but there are men that do. Frankly too each his own, but as black women we have got to stop idolizing this idea that all black men are this good stand up people that are down for the sistas. Not all of them are and when women hold on to this type of idea they find themselves hurt and shock when they encounter that black man that wants to hurt them and put them down.

    Same thing in the vise versa.

    Like


  491. @ D.

    Just read your comment. to B.R.

    applause* that was very well said.

    Like


  492. @ Ebonymonroe

    I like the way you lay it out there. Does not hurt that you are a prince fan either.🙂

    Like


  493. Alicia:

    “It’s all about what you focus on and you would not want black men to harp on who black women or black female celebrities date or that occasional black woman/other race couple, so let’s not do it to them.

    I agree 110%, You’re a breath of fresh air, Alicia.🙂

    Like


  494. “Adonis:

    The reason why you & other black women ride with this argument, is because a lot of you are Professional Victims.

    A lot of you picked the wrong kind of black men, and now we all gotta hear it.

    Again, you are not doing black men a favor by dating us.

    Be a high quality woman, and date who you want.”

    +1 on this brotha.

    Like


  495. I have not followed this thread closely, and as a result have probably not fully understood the exchanges over the last couple of days, but, when Phoebe said this:

    It is rare to be able to exchange dialogue with a mind who understands worldly dynamics.

    Could someone tell me what this is?

    Like


  496. @ Adonis
    “I did not misunderstand your comment. I have been in countless on-line & off-line conversations with black women & I have a very good feel where y’all are coming from.”—Considering each one is different I doubt you have enough understanding of where we are coming from. Even in this room alone not all women are coming from the same place.

    Same & Similar are NOT the same.

    American Black women in general are more similar than they are different. Good & Bad.

    “Let us keep it one million, the black women on-line who preach that fake black nationalism (no disrespect to those who are for real) & play the “loyal” card, are older, fatter, uglier, kids in tow, looking to be saved by a unsuspecting simpish black male.”—Sorry but I am going to have to disagree. Not all of them are. In fact considering that they are online I have a hard time picturing anyone on here knowing how they look or what they have going on in their life.

    If your imagination & common sense is out of whack, and you are clearly Team Black Woman, I can see how you would disagree just for kicks.

    Most women who are comment on blogs fall into those categories. If you are still in denial, just ask them to privately e-mail you there updated photos. Simple.

    “Yes, NON-BLACK WOMEN”—Wrong again. Maybe where you life that might actually be true but that is not actually the truth of what I have seen in the black women in my area or in other areas I have been in through my travels. So the question is what are you basing this misinformation on?

    I am not making that argument that non-BW are intrinsically better.

    I am arguing, if you want a more put together woman, and you go out & actively date. She is least likely going to be an AMERICAN black woman.

    It is mostly not their fault for this, because your environment/culture & socio-economic standing of your community play into this.

    So, Sharina, in your area, if you have all these extraordinary SINGLE black woman out here, not being chose,

    And it is not because she is OLD, FAT, WITH CHILD, ATTITUDINAL or have POOR RELATIONSHIP INTANGIBLES.

    What is YOUR theory for their singleness?

    I challenge you because, I know in a lot of places in America, women are very passive when it comes to dating. & suck at dealing with rejection.

    So, the floor is yours.

    “Well, ask yourself this, @Sharina, because you are being dense & you won’t get off your fantasy island.”—If I am in a fantasy land then I guess you are sitting right beside me because I have a black fat female friend who works for Mercedes Benz Corporation and has been chosen by quite a few men…one which was Nigerian and willing to drop any and everything for her. So I guess your theory is a bit lacking.

    One, if you see this fat woman OR ANY OTHER fat woman romantically linked to a dude in his Mercedes or any other high-end luxury vehicle, snap a picture.

    Since this phenomenon is more common where you live, this should not be a problem.

    You can blur out their faces. If you know them personally, tell me their backstory.

    “These unfit women are not dating top shelf men.”—See above information on friend (so proud of her by the way).

    I know of fat women who can find TRICKS to spend money on them. There is a whole industry where a small number of men with money will pay for fat women to play in the s*xual realm.

    Having money as a man is IMPRESSIVE & can take you places with WOMEN.

    So, this Nigerian man either has an angle for this fat woman, or that is what he believes that he can reasonably get on the market.

    Good for her either way.

    “A lot of these women don’t want to get married until they are UNFIT (old & fat) & have unreasonable standards in men.”—I don’t think you should go so far as to say a lot.

    I thought so.

    “What do men value in women?”—Can’t answer for what men value in women. I can only answer for what my husband values in me.

    I thought so.

    In general, men value similar things in women.

    In general, women value similar things in men.

    Their are variables, but very predictable.

    “Just because you think these women are all that, the men around them, think differently.”—Based on your criteria these women should have “kneegrows” lined up around the block. Right? So why it now a matter of what I might or might not think of them?

    First of all, I don’t even believe you are telling the truth.

    Black women are not the most honest when it comes to these kinds of conversations, so I don’t believe these women are high quality women.

    – they might have a poor disposition about men in general.
    – they might have subpar parents
    – they might be busy & dating is not a priority
    – they take their mating pool for granted
    – they might be well known LOOSE women
    – they might choose irresponsible, non-committal men (the most common culprit)

    But whatever the case. Unless men are raping them, MEN are not at fault.

    These women have choices & options. That is on you.

    “The most likely case is that, these women are not getting the kinds of men that they want”—I will remember to ask them what they want, but the issue or claim you made was that based on the criteria you put forth they should be presented with plenty of men. They aren’t and it is not always the case no matter how valuable they are. Things are much deeper than simply that. The remainder of what you said is just deflection and I will not give it anymore attention than that.

    Well, if they live in a place where men are not plentiful & available, that might pose problems.

    Are you telling me, NO MAN wants these high quality women?

    The reason why you are RUNNING from this part of my comment is because if WE got to the BOTTOM of why these “great” women are single, we would realize, men have little to do with it.

    “Men are not the problem, on why you & other black women are suffering.”—Considering the fact that I am happily married I am confused on where you get the idea that I am suffering. Oh is this the part where you paint me as the angry black woman with low value and such to denounce my credibility?

    I always question married black women doing anything other than attending to your family full time.

    Advocating for other women who make poor choices in men puzzles me.

    “Give your uncles some money & resources, I promise you the women they check for fall in line with my checklist above. “ —Actually my uncles own their own business. The one who started it built his own house recently and they all seem to be living quite nicely. Yet each have chosen based on their own value of the women they are with.

    I am assuming these women are of quality, tick most of the boxes.

    Men’s value systems are not that different.

    @ Adonis

    “You used your uncle, your girlfriends & your husband as examples. Not great samples.”—Perfect for displaying that their is no road map with checklist to these situations.

    Which you are very vague about all three of these scenarios. Whatever

    “Your husband was the best available attractive dude that was willing to commit. End. Of.”—Ummm no. If you were here long enough to hear my story you would know my husband and I journey was a very long one as he was not the only suitor at the time (I guess desperate personal attacks is what you got going for you so….) among other things. I just make the choice in my life not to choose a man based petty things that will mean absolutely nothing in the long wrong.

    You just proved my point. Best available man who was willing to commit. But more attractive men can have the vag if things get rocky.

    “Just reminding women that they have to take responsibility for their choices in life & scapegoat men who have nothing to do with their situation.”—Yet you have failed to show where I have used men as a scapegoat in my post. So as you continue to misunderstand my post rest assured you have displayed the very reason you have the angry black women who have spoken out on these issues in the way they have.🙂

    You are just arguing just to argue. Tap-dancing.

    And it was @peanut who scapegoated black men as if black men just abandoned good black women who are these loyal creatures.

    90% of your collective dating issues would be solved by internal repair & being extremely proactive when seeking out a mate.

    Like


  497. Last comment for @Sharina

    Like


  498. @Alicia

    GREAT COMMENT.

    —-

    The flip side is that black men do want to mate with black women,

    But he is unattractive (swagger & average income [$40K-], average looking ) & the women are hard to get along with outside of intercourse.

    You gotta date the people who you are compatible with.

    As far as the GOOD black women, if they are awesome, they will have suitors.

    What they do with those suitors, that is on them.

    Like


  499. Sharina:

    “but as black women we have got to stop idolizing this idea that all black men are this good stand up people that are down for the sistas.”

    Not one black man that has commented on this thread has made such a claim BUT a black woman, ( Peanut ) has made this claim about black women, being down for black men.

    So this statement you’re making is misleading, being that no black has said this on this post.

    This would apply to Peanut in regard to her, claiming black women are more loyal to black men, than black men are loyal to black women.

    “Not all of them are and when women hold on to this type of idea they find themselves hurt and shock when they encounter that black man that wants to hurt them and put them down.”

    Again, not one black man on THIS POST has said, all black men are down for black women ( meaning dating them and not other races ).

    So in the end, you’re creating an argument, that wasn’t even in dispute for the sole purpose of backing up your agenda, being you’re in a interracial relationship with a Hispanic and not a black man, you have every reason to stick up for interracial relationship.

    Like


  500. @Sondis

    Oh, that is why @Sharina is going ham.

    @Sharina, are you with a WHITE Hispanic or a BLACK Hispanic?

    The funny thing is, when brothas date out, you don’t really hear from them, there is no real agenda behind it.

    Yes, some of these black men hate black women to the core, but that is about it.

    I wish black women could just be cool with their IR partners.

    At the end of the day, it is very rare that a black woman is going to be persecuted for dating out to the level that BM get for dating WW.

    But between the IR BW promoters & the fake loyal BW, I can see why a segment of black men want to parts.

    Good day

    And Sharina, be great with your IR husband, but leave the agenda at home.

    Like


  501. @Adonis

    “Same & Similar are NOT the same”—Didn’t say they were
    “Most women who are comment on blogs fall into those categories. If you are still in denial, just ask them to privately e-mail you there updated photos. Simple.”—I think it is fair that before you starting telling someone about there common sense that you grab some and stop with the petty games. You keep saying the majority but have yet to prove what the majority do, look like, or are. You at this point have an idea of what you think these women are etc. but instead of just showing something you rather make insults at me and all the while making this major azz of yourself. On top of that if you read my comment I simply said not all of them are and you are on rampant disagreement with that. Which shows you believe all of them are in my book.

    “I am not making that argument that non-BW are intrinsically better.”—I did not say you were so you can hold the projections for later thank you.
    “It is mostly not their fault for this, because your environment/culture & socio-economic standing of your community play into this.”—More assumptions of what my environment /culture or socio-economic standing is. Ok more projection here.

    “What is YOUR theory for their singleness?”—My theory is simply poor men choice. Men who acknowledge them because they look good, but can never intellectually keep up with them (sorry but this is not just black men either). Men that are intimidated by success of said women (and yes this is still an issue) and refuse to even approach them or give them a chance. My favorite though for black women is the men that believe the stereotypes and don’t even bother. As I remember one black man saying black women are too high maintenance and would make him broke (not on this blog though).
    “One, if you see this fat woman OR ANY OTHER fat woman romantically linked to a dude in his Mercedes or any other high-end luxury vehicle, snap a picture.”—You misunderstand. My friend does not need said man to buy her a Mercedes. She has one. She works for the company.

    “Since this phenomenon is more common where you live, this should not be a problem.”—Where did I say it was common where I live? Tsk tsk now…no putting words in my mouth. What I said and have been saying is that things are not this cut and try and follows the point of what you think or believe. Each situation is different and people love and want each other for reasons that can not be marked on paper. My friends experience was nothing more than an example and I am sure hers is not the only one. I also said what you want In a woman is not what every man wants or even the majority. You can only speak for yourself and those men who have divulged this to you.

    I have to pick up my daughter and when continue a response then.

    Like


  502. “Adonis

    @Sondis

    Oh, that is why @Sharina is going ham.

    @Sharina, are you with a WHITE Hispanic or a BLACK Hispanic?

    The funny thing is, when brothas date out, you don’t really hear from them, there is no real agenda behind it.

    Yes, some of these black men hate black women to the core, but that is about it.

    I wish black women could just be cool with their IR partners.

    At the end of the day, it is very rare that a black woman is going to be persecuted for dating out to the level that BM get for dating WW.

    But between the IR BW promoters & the fake loyal BW, I can see why a segment of black men want to parts.

    Good day

    And Sharina, be great with your IR husband, but leave the agenda at home.”

    To be perfectly honest, Adonis. I really don’t think she would answer that question honestly or is even being honest about her claim that he is a “black Hispanic” It would just prove that she wanted someone as close to white as possible.

    She has agenda written all over her rants, so i seriously doubt she is really being honest about anything after her insults that she initiated towards me.

    Now, i did retaliate and stoop to her level, i will acknowledge that much but she was the 1st to draw blood. So that says a lot about her credibility in regards to her being honest and not lying to back her agenda.

    Like


  503. @ Adonis

    Before I leave.

    If you had read anything I said prior instead of jumping the band wagon then you would clearly note that I said as clear as day (to those that can read and comprehend) that people should date who the heck they want to. I have stood by that in this thread and others. So what nonsense are you even talking about. What agenda is there? Spend more time coming up with a better debate and less time trying to assume something about me.\

    Good day.

    Like


  504. and since Sondis’s debates are so weak I won’t even bother to ask him to do better.

    Like


  505. “Sharina

    and since Sondis’s debates are so weak I won’t even bother to ask him to do better.”

    That’s odd, you’ve been “debating” with me for several days and all of a sudden, my debates are weak? That’s an excuse, being what i said had a ring of truth. Typical of someone like you.

    I’m done with you…

    Like


  506. D, yes, well said, and I wanted to imply in my statement , that putting white peolple out of the movement and being able to express among themselves , angers and indignations, and have conversations meant for black people , was a positive thing…especialy back then

    And here is the crucial and key things to absorb from back then into now,

    remember how there was this division of concepts back then of MLK and Malcolm X?

    and now, we look back and take the great things from each?

    Back then, the black nationalists would be very hard on MLK, and would say bad things and put his position down…because they beleived in their position , which had great things too, like all what Malcolm X represented, who was a man who was in philisophical motion and changed midway in his life…which should never be forgotton…its ok to change your position

    Its in that drama back then, that on the black nationalist side , in the process of forming its agenda, there were these off shoot, smaller agendas, and some did and are doing great damage

    Its easy to see that with the good intentions of the SNCC paper above , stating very valid reasons why white people should be excluded , that an extended agenda from that , but seperate from the main points, is all black people should be loyal to each other and not sleep with white people…an agenda doomed from the start

    Its easy to see , that with the black nationalist position , that implied MLK is out of touch, and the old school, that the older generation of black artists, were wrong with how they did business with white people, and were shucking and jiving and Armstrong became a target…and they rightfully looked on black face as racist, but didnt want to understand that all black entertainers had to wear black face to go in front of white audiences…they mixed up the stereytypes like jim c oon , who did a jig with master Juba, who invented tap and after his artistry was recognised , he didnt have to use black face to survive

    Just as we look back and recognise MLK and Malcolm X had valuable lessons for us all, we can also go back and embrace Armstrong, the great tap artists

    and , take the yoke off of the agenda that there is some hard fast rule that tells people who they can date or not..and that that has nothing to do with black awareness and pride

    Yeah, see through white racism, talk about what charactoristics to watch out for, but , is it really anybodies business who someone else decides to sleep with ?

    Like


  507. peanut:

    about the video you post, even I felt the Black woman was embarrassing saying all that stuff on national television…saying “they don’t want me,” in front of everyone is just embarrassing…I think she should have expressed herself in a more private or anonymous forum…

    I saw the first 58 seconds of the video and stopped watching. Not because I was embarrassed but because I felt sad watching her. Inadvertently, this has brought her to the attention of men all over the world and i’m sure she aint lonely anymore.

    Like


  508. @Sondis

    The weaker the debate the more likely I am to engage. As for as truth you are simply assuming until you think you find a weakness. That is not debating that is an act of desperation. Try not to confuse the two.

    Like


  509. When I return home I will respond to Adonis’ s acts of desperation and perhaps he will be done too.

    Like


  510. Could someone tell me what this is?

    @Bulanik,

    I just mean i rarely have conversations with other people who have a global perspective…so when i do, it is really nice.

    Like


  511. Sharina:

    “The weaker the debate the more likely I am to engage. As for as truth you are simply assuming until you think you find a weakness. That is not debating that is an act of desperation. Try not to confuse the two.”

    You mean when you were the 1st to insult me by calling me an ass in more ways than one?, You mean that type of desperation? Yeah, that’s what i thought you meant, had to clear that up for myself.

    Have a nice day🙂

    Like


  512. @ Phoebe, yes, I understood that part.
    But I was asking and would like to know was what that particular “global” perspective is, as there are commenters from all parts of the world here.
    I am just interested in understanding what was you thought refreshing or unusual in Ebonymonroe’s commentary.

    (Just a question😀 )

    Like


  513. Nice try, but no. Lol

    Like


  514. But I was asking and would like to know was what that particular “global” perspective is, as there are commenters from all parts of the world here.
    I am just interested in understanding what was you thought refreshing or unusual in Ebonymonroe’s commentary.

    (Just a question😀 )

    Well, ok–i’m a little biased (lol)…

    I’ve always been interested in the Black British experience. So that perspective is very meaningful to me–even though it is only one part of the entire global perspective–i recognize that as well.

    Like


  515. its about not being with the immediates just because i reckon nuclear you say

    Like


  516. Yes, perhaps just a tiny, little bit biased, Phoebeprunelleo! lol.
    There have been a couple of black British commenters who have shared here over the last couple of years.
    I fear we may not have been the right type😀

    Good to know.

    Like


  517. @ Adonis

    Continued

    “So, this Nigerian man either has an angle for this fat woman, or that is what he believes that he can reasonably get on the market”—No, considering his ability to travel (as is hers) there is no other angle that he liked her and wanted her, but what I find odd is someone loving another has to be an angle according to you.

    “I thought so.”—I would hope so. I never assume to think for men or women beyond myself.

    “First of all, I don’t even believe you are telling the truth.”—Don’t remember asking you to believe me but the odd thing is you expect what you say to be taken at face value. Funny how that works right?

    “they might have a poor disposition about men in general.”(No, most women I know simply prefer a smart intelligent black man) (those are not in abundance).
    – they might have subpar parents (Nope. Most of the women I know come from middle class black families that are overachievers).
    – they might be busy & dating is not a priority (at one time that was the case but as of late).
    – they take their mating pool for granted (perhaps but one wants what they want).
    – they might be well known LOOSE women (no again)
    – they might choose irresponsible, non-committal men (the most common culprit)—I agree this is the most common culprit, but it is not one that can be determined on a first date. Plus the women I know are no nonsense and are not the type to invest in men of this caliber.

    “These women have choices & options. That is on you.”—Why is it on me what their choices and options are? Can you stop projecting on me? It is creepy.

    “Are you telling me, NO MAN wants these high quality women?”— I believe I said they are not presented with plenty of men and these type women are only interested in black men not any MEN.

    “The reason why you are RUNNING from this part of my comment is because if WE got to the BOTTOM of why these “great” women are single, we would realize, men have little to do with it.”—How can I run from something I have yet to have a chance to respond to? I never said men had all to do with it (that is you putting words in my mouth. I said men were part of it, but never what part.

    “Advocating for other women who make poor choices in men puzzles me.”—Please quote in full where I advocated for other women to do anything other than to date quality men?

    “I am assuming these women are of quality, tick most of the boxes.”—I would say only 2 of those women are of quality. The others are lacking in different ways, but my uncles wanted them so…

    “Which you are very vague about all three of these scenarios. Whatever”—And the purpose of me gutting and displaying their relationship is what? Regardless of what you believe they made choices about what they wanted and you can’t change that. It is not your choice and it is not you yet you are mad because what they wanted is not in line with what you believe they should want?

    “You just proved my point. Best available man who was willing to commit. But more attractive men can have the vag if things get rocky.”—I never went into detail why so not sure how it magically proved your point, but I find it telling how quick you are to assume is less attractive in some sense. LOL

    “You are just arguing just to argue. Tap-dancing”—No. gave an opinion which was challenged. Simple as that. If you don’t like a challenge then stop giving an opinion.

    “@Sharina, are you with a WHITE Hispanic or a BLACK Hispanic?”—Nice of you to ask me and not assume (though short lived), but considering I have said time and time again what he is I will not continue a repeat.

    “The funny thing is, when brothas date out, you don’t really hear from them, there is no real agenda behind it.”—Actually there is a site where black men are raving about dating white women, or you can just check youtube.

    Like


  518. I actually have to WORK today so did not have a chance to read thru everything. @BR..I will have to respond to you later. But I did want to briefly respond to this point by Sharina


    Sharina
    @ Shady_Grady

    If you’re happy in your relationship you’re not worrying about what other people are doing.”—I agree but many of the individuals who find themselves upset about any type of relationship are not in one. SO the question becomes…is it the fact that it is a irr or is it the relationship in general?

    Yes, many of the people , regardless of race, who are po’d about IR relationships or anybody being in a relationship are IMO just bitter because they themselves are not in one and want to be (not necessarily an IRR but ANY good relationship). That becomes very obvious from some of the comments here. If you either have someone you’re happy with OR don’t have someone but are honestly happy alone, in my experience, you generally aren’t running around hyperventilating about the threat of THEM stealing your man or your women.

    Of course I think even among people who are relatively happy in their personal lives there may be a twinge of annoyance if/when they see one of “their” men/women with someone of a different race but that’s only because most of us have been raised in a pretty racist society. That feeling should not be ignored but it’s not something I would celebrate either.

    People get together for all sorts of messed up reasons. Anyone who does so out of self-hatred or worship of lighter skin or fetishization of the darker other, well I feel sorry for them. But it’s not my business. As people have noted, life is too short. The threat of IR relationships is most acutely felt by people who already feel marginalized for one reason or the other and rather than do work to improve themselves would prefer to place blame for their romantic/personal situation on what other people are doing. It’s only human nature and it’s not by any means restricted to IRR discussions.

    Like


  519. There have been a couple of black British commenters who have shared here over the last couple of years.

    @Bulanik, holy smokes!!

    How did i miss it? You’re British?

    I should know better!

    Sorry.🙂

    Like


  520. @ Shady_Grady

    Very well said and I agree.

    Like


  521. v8driver,

    “@solesearch you notion of wp as some benign socialiological construct disturbs me as seriously wrong.”

    huh? Is this a joke?

    Like


  522. Shady, anybody who can hit me with a Miles Davis quote , has got my attention..I have an observatioon on Pharoh Sanders and that era I havent formulated yet…but, ill get to you on that….

    Like


  523. on Wed 16 Oct 2013 at 21:59:12 Pay It Forward

    Sharina said:

    “@ Shady_Grady

    “Very well said and I agree.”

    __ __ __

    Ditto!

    Like


  524. http://www.mit.edu/~thistle/v9/9.01/6blackf.html

    Abagond , Im afraid the answers to your questions, and why its almost a script for the diologue we see all over here and the other threads is right here…its why political agendas on all sides can bring pain way into the future

    Like


  525. @Sharina

    What you are trying to do is taking what MIGHT be an exception to what I & others say is the general norm in dating & relationships, and running with it.

    The fat girl who works at Mercedes, you will never see this woman romantically linked & riding in a man’s luxury car.

    I know that breaks your heart, but men work hard to achieve abundance in finances not to share it a PRECIOUS or Roseanne.

    Even rich guys with fatty fetishes don’t do it.

    ————-

    I ask for your husband’s ethnicity, because who you married provides insight on what you are on, and why you are being argumentative without bringing up valid counterpoints. Their is a rhyme & reason to it.

    ————-

    “What is YOUR theory for their singleness?”—My theory is simply poor men choice.

    And that is 100% on Black Women. Men are just presenting the poor choice, because will take the vag, even though we know you ain’t worth anything more.

    Men who acknowledge them because they look good, but can never intellectually keep up with them (sorry but this is not just black men either).

    Meaning that these women are difficult to deal with. Good to know.

    Men that are intimidated by success of said women (and yes this is still an issue) and refuse to even approach them or give them a chance.

    Why can’t these women, every time an attractive man reveals himself, APPROACH THESE MEN.

    Obviously, these women got it going on (sarcasm), but can’t start a conversation with the men they like.

    Men cannot even make that excuse about women not checking for them, for whatever reason.

    It just means that said man in unattractive & not worth the trouble.

    Your friends and the women you know gotta take 100% responsibility on why they are single & don’t want to be.

    My favorite though for black women is the men that believe the stereotypes and don’t even bother. As I remember one black man saying black women are too high maintenance and would make him broke (not on this blog though).

    Black women need better PR.

    “One, if you see this fat woman OR ANY OTHER fat woman romantically linked to a dude in his Mercedes or any other high-end luxury vehicle, snap a picture.”—You misunderstand. My friend does not need said man to buy her a Mercedes. She has one. She works for the company.

    Any woman does not need a Mercedes, the point is, she does not have the attractiveness to snag a man who has one, see her riding around in HIS Mercedes in the passenger side. That is reserves for pretty, in-shape women.

    Some Fat women do well in the dating arena despite their size, so it is not really an issue.

    But at the end of the day, if men could get a pretty, fit woman, that is the default preference.

    ————–

    “they might have a poor disposition about men in general.”(No, most women I know simply prefer a smart intelligent black man) (those are not in abundance).

    It is funny how I, a straight man, can probably go to these women cities & find intelligent black men for them to date, no problem.

    This just goes back to being pro-active.

    Also, these women might be OLD.

    – they might have subpar parents (Nope. Most of the women I know come from middle class black families that are overachievers).

    Get a NIGERIAN doctor type BM. Find out where they congregate & talk to them.

    – they might be busy & dating is not a priority (at one time that was the case but as of late).

    This is huge because, instead of focusing on your education & being a LOOSE woman, you should be spending your best years (18-30) looking for a husband.

    But that makes too much sense & black women have narrow views on what is attractive at these ages.

    – they take their mating pool for granted (perhaps but one wants what they want).

    Again, that has nothing to do with men. And when your dating requirement are hella stringent, you are going to be single for a while.

    – they might be well known LOOSE women (no again)

    Agreed

    – they might choose irresponsible, non-committal men (the most common culprit)—I agree this is the most common culprit, but it is not one that can be determined on a first date. Plus the women I know are no nonsense and are not the type to invest in men of this caliber.

    Meaning that, they spend their best years with these kinds of men, and now in their LATE twenties, EARLY thirties, they are checking for the black men they didn’t want earlier.

    Self-inflicted dating problems

    “These women have choices & options. That is on you.”—Why is it on me what their choices and options are? Can you stop projecting on me? It is creepy.

    Being silly now. I know how to better to debate your bullsh*t in the future.

    “Are you telling me, NO MAN wants these high quality women?”— I believe I said they are not presented with plenty of men and these type women are only interested in black men not any MEN.

    What you reluctantly concede is that they had multiple opportunities (10 or more).

    Also, they are limiting their dating options, which is silly, but YOU want what YOU want.

    Also, I can guarant-d@mn-tee, that these women don’t put in the work to get men or to be Male-friendly.

    And we already established that they don’t check for the men who will give them a commitment.

    So, they should just get some cats & be done with it.

    Like


  526. Adonis:

    well said brotha, you’re not going to get anywhere with Sharina.

    We’ve seen her type before, her sole purpose is to fight black men to the death and fight us tooth and nail. She can do this, being she has a Hispanic husband, so its no skin off her back.

    She not even a great debater at that. lol

    Like


  527. @sondis

    It is women like her who are bad PR for the marginally good black women.

    We are just sparring right now, I do not expect any productive conclusion to come out of this.

    She should just spend the time she has debating us, learning how to give her husband better head.

    Good Day

    Like


  528. “Adonis:

    “It is women like her who are bad PR for the marginally good black women.”

    Agreed 110%

    We are just sparring right now, I do not expect any productive conclusion to come out of this.” I’m glad you’re not taking anything sharina says, seriously.

    “She should just spend the time she has debating us, learning how to give her husband better head.”

    ROLF! She does have a lot of time on her hands for a married woman to be on a blog, every single day for hours at a time and debate black men. I guess her Hispanic husband and kids, doesn’t’ require much quality time.

    How do i know that Sharina is on every day all day? My iPhone gets email notices and it see who is commenting on all the articles.

    I barely comment on this blog, every now and again I’ll have free time, this is why i disappear and reappear on this blog. I do have a life and as such i do tend to it, being I’m not on it every single day.

    Sharina is obviously a hater of black men, like a few other black women on this blog, she tried to hide it but fails, miserably.

    There are some black women on this blog, that are not as i never seem them, bash black men or talk about black men in any negative, capacity.

    Yes, I’ve seen black women on this blog, give “constructive” criticism about black men but nothing with such malice as sharina.

    Like


  529. @ Adonis

    I consider and started to go quote for quote responding to all of what you said and then I decided not to. It is not worth it when your post is full of what YOU think, assume, or believe. You lack any proof but are quick to push this as the norm. Yet are arguing with me over some small amount of people that do not fit into what you believe is the absolutely truth.

    Secondly, did you or did you not make the claim that if said women had all of the qualities you claimed then these “kneegrows” will be lined up? So why is it now that you have all this extra stipulations you want to throw into the mix? Now you want to throw in exceptions but why not put those in the first time I said I disagreed with you?

    Now on to those things I will address

    “Also, these women might be OLD.”—Oh how sad it is when 29 is old.

    “Meaning that, they spend their best years with these kinds of men, and now in their LATE twenties, EARLY thirties, they are checking for the black men they didn’t want earlier.”—Nope. They spent those years searching for viable men. Sorry but they were not in abundance like your checklist claimed.
    “Meaning that, they spend their best years with these kinds of men, and now in their LATE twenties, EARLY thirties, they are checking for the black men they didn’t want earlier.).”—Wrong. They do not have multiple opportunities which is what I have been getting at from the start. I agree their restrictiveness play a part, but it does not change much in line of this abundance of men.
    “Also, I can guarant-d@mn-tee, that these women don’t put in the work to get men or to be Male-friendly.”—Sure you can. Just about as much as I can guarantee I am the dalai lama.

    “And we already established that they don’t check for the men who will give them a commitment.”—Where was that established? In your assumptive imagination? If I am not mistaken I said they are no nonsense meaning they are not looking for non-serious relationships.

    “Being silly now. I know how to better to debate your bullsh*t in the future.”—You have not been able to debate it yet, so good luck in the future. On top of that if you are constantly saying YOU then how is it being silly. None of what you said applies to me and yet you are constantly throwing your ideas of me at me. You don’t know me and when you have specific stuff to say to a person without knowing them then I call that a bit of projection.
    When you are done making assumptions and telling me what you believe (which you are entitled to by the way) I will tell you in detail what it is I am actually getting at if you have not already figured it out.🙂

    Like


  530. @ Adonis and Sondis

    Bitter black men unite. ROFL

    How does it feel knowing how low you have to stoop to feel good about yourselves?

    Like


  531. And another thing….I can respond to comment son my phone. It is the joy of technology you know.

    Like


  532. @v8driver;

    If your only reason to meet and date with black women is the fact that they are black, then you are choosing them because they are black. If you make your choice by their race, as if it is the only thing that matters, then you are making your choice based on race and that is racist.

    What I said was this: if anyone chooses his/her companion/date/spouse simply by racial standards, that individual is a racist because the race is the Thing.

    If you love somebody for what ever she/he is, regardless of the color of her/his skin, that is ok. BUT if you ditch people simply because they are not the “right color”, then you are racist. If you exclude people because they are the “wrong” color, you are a racist. It really is this simple.

    Racism is tricky because we do not always recognize it, specially if and when we think it is a “positive” thing. By this I mean that the black women have been cast in the certain role in the american culture. There are clear expectations what they are and how they are, how they look and sound, the way they are supposed to speak and behave, and of course the over sexation.

    Instead of seeing black women as women, the american culture has certain roles which the black women must play. They are certainly sexual objects for men. The image of black women in music videos, pictures etcetc. is a clear proof of this.

    Now, if you say that you, as a man, not just as a white man but as a man, prefer black women, “like more” black women, why it is? Is it simply matter of apples over oranges or is it because you have learned to look at the black women in a certain way and expect a certain behavior from them?

    If you would see black women as women first and foremost, you would simply talk about women, not BLACK women. But you were specific that you like BLACK women. That is a racial preference. You define your liking according to their racial definition. You identify them as a group by their racial features which, like it or not, have been given certain traits in your culture. So when you say I like black women, you like what Black Woman means in the context of the culture.

    If it was: “I like women out of whom most have happened to been black”, then there might be no racism. But you stated that you like BLACK women. That is the definition. That is the condition. It was not Nice women, Smart women, Intellectual women, not even Sexy women, BUT specificly Black women. That is what I meant. Anyone who chooses his/her companion solely by the color of their skin is a racist.

    Like


  533. @ Sam: I like that comment.

    Like


  534. @ Sam : Excellent points. You said what I was thinking.

    Like


  535. @ Sondis

    I will make this my last comment to you.

    “We’ve seen her type before, her sole purpose is to fight black men to the death and fight us tooth and nail.”—Just because I don’t agree that every black man is some gift to the world does not mean I am fighting against black me.

    Name one time I said anything negative against all black men?

    But you know what you and adonis can enjoy giving each other handjobs and rejoicing over you many delusions and assumptions.

    Goodbye.🙂

    Like


  536. And Abagond you can not say they did not ask for it with those loaded assumptions. What I said was fairly mild compared to what was said to me.

    Like


  537. hot dam, its getting heated and personal.

    Like


  538. Sharina

    @ Sondis

    “I will make this my last comment to you.”

    I can give a rats ass, if you ever comment to me.

    “Just because I don’t agree that every black man is some gift to the world does not mean I am fighting against black me.”

    The fact that you don’t agree, that every black man is some gift to the world, wasn’t in dispute or my argument but its obvious that you’re making it a point to “project” that onto what my actual, argument was.

    “but you know what you and adonis can enjoy giving each other handjobs and rejoicing over you many delusions and assumptions.

    Goodbye.”

    The lack of class in this statement is what i expect from you, Sharina. Your credibility is “0” This time, i will be the classy one in the debate and refuse to stood down to your level of immaturity.

    My last comment to you, ( if you actually stick to your word and will not respond to me any further, which i doubt as you always have to have the last word. ) Good riddance!🙂

    Like


  539. “Many black men in the movement were interested in controlling
    black women’s sexuality. Bell hooks comments that during the Black
    Liberation Movement of the 1960s, “black men overemphasize[d] white
    male sexual exploitation of black womanhood as a way to explain their
    disapproval of inter-racial relationships.” It was, however, no
    contradiction of their political views to have inter-racial
    relationships themselves. Again, part of “freedom” and “manhood” was
    the right of men to have indiscriminate access to and control over any
    woman’s body.”

    This is from that article I brought in from a “Feminist Black Liberation ” paper….Let me say, Im not endorsing the feminist black liveration movement ,I know this doesnt represent black men , but, it is a painful indication of exactly the truth Im talking about , of flawed political agendadas floating around with the good ones…it goes on to name names, I already knew about this kind of thinking on all sides , and , both sides of this paper are political agendas

    You cant deny these sources now, Abagond , the black political agenda against interracial sex, has roots in the sixties , and the same with the agendas against Armstrong and Tap dancing….and the subsaquent backlash…I actualy left the USA because of the racial devide and uptight feminist attitudes , not the rights that they deserved, the uptight about female sexuality attitudes…

    showing these origins, the SNCC paper and the Black Feminist paper, only reminds me of what I knew back then , up to that point , the racial devide was mostly white , except for Garvey and the Nation of Islam, after the 60’s, there was an element in the black political narritive that laid its own pavement on the 10 lane mack truck highway of the racial devide in the USA

    I actualy think if black people lifted the yoke off their backs of both these agendas , they could look each other in the cybor eyes (most of this is internet blow hard ) and actualy be able to unify like never before

    Sharina, you dont deserve to be implicated as a schill for the white man in any way….

    the name of the tap dancer who choreographed for Motown, is Cholly Atkins , I knew it , but misspelled it

    Like


  540. “Adonis
    @Sondis
    Oh, that is why @Sharina is going ham.
    @Sharina, are you with a WHITE Hispanic or a BLACK Hispanic?”

    Linda says,

    Thank you for reminding me about something I totally disagreed with, that Abagond said —

    Abagond wrote@: “Hispanic – not a race.”

    in a sense, that’s true but you got to call them something, Abagond, since naming people by individual country would be too difficult for the American race game (since America is so big on having to Label everyone within it’s borders)

    and by the way, there is NO such thing as white or black Hispanics..

    it’s bad enough that the USA government has bogus, interchangeable categories on it’s Census but you can’t just leave “Mestizo or mixed-race Spanish speaking” people out in the cold because you’re trying to fit them into a political concept and trying to “one drop” them into categories that don’t fit.

    the term you should have used Abagond is “Latino” — If you want to give them a “Generic” name that makes “one drop” labeling easier, then “Latino” fits the bill, a hella better

    than “white” or “black” because those 2 terms DO NOT describe most Hispanics/Latinos –especially since Native American Indians are the biggest contributors to the Latin American gene pool.

    I’ve noticed it’s mostly black people who say “Hispanic” is not a race, it’s an “Ethnicity” (because trust, white Americans are Not trying to claim Hispanics/Latinos) — well same thing can be said about “African Americans” — that term represents a shared “Ethnicity and culture” — not a Race

    most African descendants in America run with label: “black or African American” anyway, even if they look like Soledad O’Brien or Suzanne Malveaux

    http://www.lazygirls.info/Suzanne_Malveaux/With_Twin_Sister_Suzette_Tq2yZdg

    and “According to Ancestry.com, the average African American is 65 percent sub-Saharan African, 29 percent European and 2 percent Native American.

    (and of course, other studies have different numbers, with European btw 19-30% depending on location of the black population and with people who carry more than 40-50% European DNA removed from the studies)

    http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/05/genetic-variation-among-african-americans/

    so, if African Americans are “black”, then Spanish-speaking Mestizos/ Mulattos should get to be “Hispanic” or Latino.

    my 2 cents.

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  541. “if you actually stick to your word and will not respond to me any further, which i doubt as you always have to have the last word.”—For once you have something right, but when you start to talk about who lacks class. Remember you are the one that called me a b**ch. 🙂

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  542. “If you make your choice by their race, as if it is the only thing that matters, then you are making your choice based on race and that is racist.”

    ******************

    @ Sam

    Your rendering of the “R” word would make *ANYONE* eligible to be a racist … which is inherently problematic…

    So … if I say that I love beige trousers way more than I enjoy wearing black, white, yellow and red pants does this make me a COLORIST too?

    No!

    Simply having a color PREFERENCE does not *always* equate to being a racist. Sometimes it just simply means I prefer orange walls to green walls, or a grey car instead of a purple car.

    I disagree with your contention. Preference is preference. And yes, while some preferences do seem to overlap into the boundaries of what is racist, clearly not all preferences are racist.

    Preference in and of itself does not equal racism! It is NOT racism.

    MISTREATMENT, OPPRESSION, INJUSTICE, VIOLENCE, marginalization and the like based on SKIN COLOR equals RACISM

    Like


  543. @ B.R.

    Thank you.

    @ Linda

    “my 2 cents”—Valued none the less.

    Like


  544. Sharina

    “if you actually stick to your word and will not respond to me any further, which i doubt as you always have to have the last word.”—For once you have something right, but when you start to talk about who lacks class. Remember you are the one that called me a b**ch.

    Actually, i called you that, in response to you, insulting me by saying and i quote:

    “You’re an ass ( in more ways than one ) ”

    Now what? you’re going to say you didn’t draw first blood and insult me first?

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  545. Latinos are true represents of the word “Interracial”

    There is a small fraction of actual homogenous (ie Pure) “white European” Latinos and same with “black African” Latinos… DNA and phenotype clearly show most Latinos are mixed race Mestizos Spanish, with combinations of other European ethnicities, Native American Indian, and African (also Arab or E Asian)

    even though it is common for Latinos to call themselves “white”, even if their skin-tone is brown, depending on the country (or the person asking), most will acknowledge their mixed-race ancestry — there is a difference between self-identification and “actual genetics”

    Lets look at the “whitest” South Americans: the Argentinians

    “Argentineans carried a large fraction of European genetic heritage in their Y-chromosomal (94.1%) and autosomal (78.5%) DNA, but their mitochondrial gene pool is mostly of Native American ancestry (53.7%) ; instead, African heritage was small in all three genetic systems (<4%)."

    http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2009/12/how-argentina-became-white/

    ie Y = granddaddy was white, X /Mitochondrial = grandmommy was Native Indian (or African depending on country)

    Here's Uruguay (another majority "white" South American country)

    "Based on 18 autosomal markers and one X-linked marker, we estimated 82% European, 8% Amerindian, and 10% African contributions to their ancestry, while from seven mitochondrial DNA site-specific polymorphic markers and sequences of hypervariable segment I, we determined 49% European, 30% Amerindian, and 21% African maternal contributions."

    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajhb.20520/abstract

    There is a reason "Latinos" look (phenotype) the way they do and it did not all come from Spain or Europe

    Like


  546. @ Peanut

    “LOL…that wasn’t nice.”—Trust me when I say I did not say nearly what I was going to say out of respect for myself and others.

    Like


  547. @Linda

    I hear you, but skin color does matter, hence, why I brought it up.

    Ancestry dot com is on some BS with the sub-Saharan African term. It is a BS term.

    Like


  548. sondis

    Sharina

    “You’re an ass ( in more ways than one ) ”

    Now what? you’re going to say you didn’t draw first blood and insult me first?

    Perfect time to not comment to me anymore, being Sharina just got caught with her very own words. lol silence when asked her this question. Typical when someone is wrong, they refuse to respond. 🙂

    Like


  549. @ Sondis

    Do a time stamp showing where I called you an ass. I just did a search of this page and not one of my posts pulled that up.

    In fact his is the post I made to you. I don’t deny I spoke first.

    “@ sondis
    If a person is really serious about a relationship then why in hell should their be a check list. That is probably why the d*mn divorce rates are so high. No substance in relationships.
    You are the main one advocating on this blog for black love and pitching fits because of photos or videos of interracial relationships, yet when pointed out part of the problem for why black love does not always workout you fly off into the men bashing corner.
    Sorry but men are part of the problem and I think women really just need to find love and a valuable relationship regardless of his color or status.
    Do women have things they need to work on? Oh yea but most of that is usually downside pretty quickly as women mature faster than men. ”

    So where did I call you an ass again? Not sure where you got that quote from but ok.

    Anyway I need to be done. Just not worth it.

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  550. @ Sondis

    “Perfect time to not comment to me anymore, being Sharina just got caught with her very own words. lol silence when asked her this question. Typical when someone is wrong, they refuse to respond.”—If I am silent then 1 of many things are happening. 1. tucking in the kids, 2. researching your claim, 3. f*cking my husband, or 4. whatever I want. But if you were right about it then I have no qualms with admitting my wrongs.

    But again I need to stop this. It has gone too far and my spiritual well being is far more important . Please do continue if you so wish.

    Like


  551. “Sharina

    @ Sondis

    Do a time stamp showing where I called you an ass. I just did a search of this page and not one of my posts pulled that up.

    In fact his is the post I made to you. I don’t deny I spoke first.”

    You know damn well, abagond deleted the insulting comment that you made to me first and then deleted my responding, insult back to you, so cut the BS and stop acting innocent!

    Typical of you to try and lie about not insulting me. Becuase you knew, abagond, deleted those insults!

    yeah, good idea to be done with it, being you just got caught in a lie.

    You do that…

    Like


  552. “But again I need to stop this. It has gone too far and my spiritual well being is far more important . Please do continue if you so wish.”

    Little too late for this, don’t you think?

    You were a willing participant in me and idonis’s heated debates. So don’t go all getting righteous on the blog as you are all, holier than thou!

    Like


  553. “Adonis
    @Linda
    I hear you, but skin color does matter, hence, why I brought it up.
    Ancestry dot com is on some BS with the sub-Saharan African term. It is a BS term.”

    Linda says,

    I agree, “sub-Saharan African term” is a BS term

    My post was geared more to Abagond and not to you… I was saying your sentence reminded me about the bone I needed to pick with Abagond for totally
    dismissing Hispanics/Latinos because they don’t fit into American’s bogus concept of race

    or rather, trying to “force” Latinos into a false black or white Narrative… that shoe does not fit.

    Like


  554. That is false Linda and not true across the board. Latin and Brazilian countries have the same history as the United States. In countries like Brazil, Colombia, Dominican republic and Venezuela there are plenty of non-mixed Black people. In Argentina, Brazil, Chile, Puerto Rico and elsewhere there are plenty of direct European descendents. It’s true that extensive mixing has created different groups in Latin nations, but ‘Latino’ is not some racial term or unique sub-set of people. I also highly disagree with you that mixed race Latinos calling themselves ‘white’ doesnt mean anything.

    Many dominicans I know are as black as Michelle Obama, so let’s stop the bull ok!

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  555. @ sondis

    “You know damn well, abagond deleted the insulting comment that you made to me first and then deleted my responding, insult back to you, so cut the BS and stop acting innocent!”—My comment never to through moderation. If you look above you will see where I asked abagond about it and after that he decided to delete it and yours.

    On top of that…to my nature I always on this blog try to say azz, so I knew then that your quote was suspicious, but deleted or not if it had posted you could find it in your inbox. With date and time stamp.

    Like


  556. @Sharina, @Sondis, @Adonis

    I promised myself I wouldn’t get involved but: why are you arguing about whom is at fault in a hypothetical relationships/courting events involving people that exist only in your minds? You may as well try to play the a card game with each of you following your own house rules, then getting mad at each other for not using the same rules.

    You can debate history, science, and politics because there are facts, rules that one must accept as a priori before proceeding (otherwise you just get magical thinking). However, none of you know what BlackMan#0267b44a and BlackWMan#7c84590d are thinking, or what they look like and how this affects their relationship prospects, because they DON’T EXIST!

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  557. “Alicia,
    Latin and Brazilian countries have the same history as the United States.

    In countries like Brazil, Colombia, Dominican republic and Venezuela there are plenty of non-mixed Black people”

    Linda says

    Alicia, please… are you from the Caribbean or Latin America…well, I am

    and I’m not going have some American sit back and tell me about my History, so you can stop the bull.. OK

    Most of you have no clue what Latin America is all about, that’s why most Americans think Cubans are “white” and did not realize there is Sizeable black and mixed-race population.

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  558. @ Sondis

    There is a difference between a heated debate and a bunk of personal attacks. In the end all it was was personal attacks and empty assumptions.

    As for the supposed deleted comments. my comment on that is in moderation, but if said comment did post it would be in your inbox and I usually use the term azz on these blogs not a**.

    Like


  559. Also, mexicans, guatamalens, salvadoreans are heavily native American in terms of racial background/mixture. The term is mestizo and are very different from puerto ricans, Dominicans and others. I believe mixed race Hispanics embrace the term ‘Latino’ because of embarresment in terms of their history. I know Mexicans and salvadoreans are embarrassed about the heavily native part of their history, because of European colonization and the brazilians, Dominicans and others re VERY embaressed about any sort of African descended connections.

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  560. Relationships sink or sail on a case-by-case basis, you cannot make such sweeping statements with any honesty whatsoever.

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  561. @D.

    “Relationships sink or sail on a case-by-case basis, you cannot make such sweeping statements with any honesty whatsoever.”—I agree and I kind of thought that is what I was saying.