Satoshi Kanazawa: Why Are Black Women Ugly?

Mon May 23rd 2011 by abagond

“Why Are Black Women Ugly?” (2011) was a blog post that Satoshi Kanazawa wrote for Psychology Today. He is an evolutionary psychologist at the London School of Economics (LSE).

The post appeared on May 15th 2011. News of it spread quickly across the Internet. Only then did Psychology Today see its mistake. Kind of. They changed the title to:

Why Are Black Women Less Physically Attractive Than Other Women?

and then to:

Why Are Black Women Rated Less Physically Attractive Than Other Women, But Black Men Are Rated Better Looking Than Other Men?

And then, when that did not work, they removed the post without a word. Since then they have put up posts about why it was bad science – but not about why such a bad scientist blogs for them.

Kanazawa’s argument: According to the Add Health study, black women are rated lower in objective attractiveness than other women, as shown by this chart:

He says it is not because they are fatter than other women or have less intelligence – they are still less attractive even when you take those things into account. It is not because of the “mutation load” in African genes: that would not account for why black men are better looking.

The only possible reason he can think of is that blacks have higher levels of testosterone. That is why black men look so manly and why black women look so – manly.

Thus Kanazawa.

Gratuitous picture of the "manly" Lauryn Hill

Add Health is a health study that follows 90,000 Americans from their school years onwards. Each one is interviewed every five years or so to see how they are doing. One question is to rate the person’s attractiveness on a five-point scale.

Some holes in Kanazawa’s argument:

1. Ratings for attractiveness are subjective. For a given person the interviewers’s ratings are all over the place, as you would expect if beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Despite that, Kanazawa calls this measure “objective” and builds his whole argument on it.

2. We know nothing about the race of those doing the rating. Yet even Kanazawa, in his backhanded way, notices that race affects how people see beauty:

It is very interesting to note that, even though black women are objectively less physically attractive than other women, black women (and men) subjectively consider themselves to be far more physically attractive than others.

But then why should the interviewers be regarded as any more objective than blacks?

3. Kanazawa’s chart of physical attractiveness is based on “women” from ages 12 to 26. Yet if you take the very same women from ages 24 to 32, nearly half the black women (48%) were rated as attractive or very attractive – the same as for white women. For Asian American women it was four points higher (52%) and for Native American women it was four points lower (42%):

Of course, a post on “Why Are Native American Women Less Physically Attractive Than Other Women?” would not get as many hits – and seem just plain heartless. Why is that?

See also:

Satoshi Kanazawa: Why Are Black Women Less Physically Attractive Than Other Women?Why black women, but not black men? – a copy at quora.com.
Scott Barry Kaufman: Black Women are Not (Rated) Less Attractive!: Our Independent Analysis of the Add Health Dataset – one of Psychology Today’s rebuttals
pseudoscience
Are black women ugly or is it racism that makes them seem so?
Are white women beautiful or is it society that makes them seem so?
The physically perfect woman – my own subjective preferences

Posted in stuff | 568 Comments

568 Responses

on Mon May 23rd 2011 at 07:36:57 Anna Renee

This is just a part of the race baiting that shoots anyone who endulges up to the stratosphere these days. (They all fall just as fast and as hard). I say many others races will see how lucrative it is to sell their souls to the devil. He’s paying more–he’s factored in inflation and stuff. Say anything negative about black Americans and you’ve got it made in white America!

This story has gotten so much press–just in my Readomatic alone I’ve seen numerous takes on this story. Thus proving the point. Everybody is always buying this stuff and thats why so many people are selling it.

Attack the black woman in the daylight, desire her in the night. I recently did a post on beautiful DARK skinned black women. I actually had to do a second one. Just two separate galleries of black women of different facial features. Let me tell you that I had hits from all over the world. The white world. The asian world. The arab world.

What is that all about, Abagond? Those two galleries of beautiful DARK skinned black women shot my blog stats into the stratosphere. So I’m to believe that the world considers black women to be ugly. OK. If the world says so.

I’m waiting for an in depth study of the MADNESS that is the race hatred of SOME whites–how it’s translated generationally, how it is deeply subconscious and how it annihilates their spirits without them realizing it. And what mad and crazy things they do because of it. The way they sabotage themselves and destroy their humanity because of it, without consciously realizing it. (We consider Hitler to be a madman, but what’s different about him in comparison? The extent he went to? Is that all?)

Also the way other races manipulate these whites because of this (Kanazawa)

Some group of psychologists, psychiatrists, behaviorists, and sociologists are going to create that in depth study, and I’m going to read it from front to back when they do.

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on Mon May 23rd 2011 at 07:57:47 sam

Maybe it is just me, but as a heterosexual white man, I do not consider mr Kanazawa himself that masculine or fine specimen of male humanbeing at all. Instead he looks pretty much as an carichature of oriental whiner.

As for the oriental beauty, mr Kanazawa would, no doubt, be surprised if he were to read what the whites were thinking about asian females say 65 years ago (slant eyed flat faced ghoul like leeches). Or, like some finnish sailors said just few years ago, the monkeys (all asians).

And, really, if mr Kanazawa thinks ms Hill looks like a dude, we have to consider that mr Kanzawa is very much into gender blending thing, or that his ideal masculinity is very much that of transvestites. Perhaps so.

I find these so called “scientifical” evidences nothing more than pretty funny poop, so it must be his idea of masculinity: pretty face, lovable lips, astonishing body and breasts etc. I find no other explanation for his views.

Unless we consider the pretty weird (from western heterosexual male point of view) and wide spread fascination of japanese men towards school girls and underaged girls in general, as is very much clear in japanese erotic culture (as anyone can see from manga or anime or any other japanese stuff). Then I could understand mr Kanazawas claim that black women are ugly. They, after all, are very much Women and as such very much, in all shapes and sizes, the ideal women for every heterosexual male, regardless of the ethnicity of the said males.

Excluding mr Kanazawa, of course.

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on Mon May 23rd 2011 at 08:05:50 Anna Renee

Oh, here’s my link to my beautiful black women

http://nachalooman.wordpress.com/2010/11/10/beautiful-dark-skinned-women/

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on Mon May 23rd 2011 at 09:41:53 Franklin

So much for the “fact” that Asians are naturally smart, eh? Trying to prove subjectivity is completely futile, because there is no universal measuring stick. No matter how badly one tries to create i and pass it off as fact. At some point it always comes down to personal opinion; especially in terms of what the person creating the measuring stick feels is important.

Look at the types of white women that were considered to be beautiful “pre-Twiggy” and “post-Twiggy.”

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on Mon May 23rd 2011 at 09:58:22 Kay

And he’s Asian ? He’s not handsome and one to talk……

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on Mon May 23rd 2011 at 11:34:42 Vindicator

I really can’t believe anybody takes this guy seriously!

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on Mon May 23rd 2011 at 12:42:43 Awryguy

Not taking into account the race of the person doing the rating is a huge omission.

Also, rating women on their physical attractiveness from the ages of 12 to 16 raises a whole host of problems. Like puberty. I can imagine study participants becoming uncomfortable rating the sex appeal of children and just randomly assigning numbers so that they can get the hell out of there.

Lastly, one of the big factors in interracial attraction is smell. Pheronomes produced by members of other races are more attractive because they advertise slightly more different genes, meaning a reduced chance of inbreeding-related mutations in the children. This experiment totally ignored that factor.

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on Mon May 23rd 2011 at 13:16:02 leigh204

The Asian men I know are embarrassed that he wrote such a crap piece of article. They say he does not speak for Asian men. Admittedly, I felt the same when the VA Tech shooter was found to be Asian.

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on Mon May 23rd 2011 at 13:16:37 leigh204

Oh, and his mole is distracting.

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on Mon May 23rd 2011 at 13:41:51 Awryguy

After reading about Kanazawa’s career, I have two things to say.

1) It’s wrong to lambast a scientist because his or her research produces socially harmful knowledge.

2) It’s totally okay to do it because they’re incompetent.

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on Mon May 23rd 2011 at 14:10:44 Menelik Charles

Sam said:

1) Maybe it is just me, but as a heterosexual white man, I do not consider mr Kanazawa himself that masculine or fine specimen of male humanbeing at all. Instead he looks pretty much as an carichature of oriental whiner.

2) As for the oriental beauty, mr Kanazawa would, no doubt, be surprised if he were to read what the whites were thinking about asian females say 65 years ago (slant eyed flat faced ghoul like leeches). Or, like some finnish sailors said just few years ago, the monkeys (all asians).

And, really, if mr Kanazawa thinks ms Hill looks like a dude, we have to consider that mr Kanzawa is very much into gender blending thing, or that his ideal masculinity is very much that of transvestites. Perhaps so.

3) I find these so called “scientifical” evidences nothing more than pretty funny poop, so it must be his idea of masculinity: pretty face, lovable lips, astonishing body and breasts etc. I find no other explanation for his views.

4) Unless we consider the pretty weird (from western heterosexual male point of view) and wide spread fascination of japanese men towards school girls and underaged girls in general, as is very much clear in japanese erotic culture (as anyone can see from manga or anime or any other japanese stuff). Then I could understand mr Kanazawas claim that black women are ugly. They, after all, are very much Women and as such very much, in all shapes and sizes, the ideal women for every heterosexual male, regardless of the ethnicity of the said males.

Excluding mr Kanazawa, of course.

Menelik says:

what an interesting slant, Sam! I recall giving a very similar point of view (but in the direction of comparing the physiques of Black women to Asian women and identifying white men repressed homo-erotic interest in Asian females) and taking a real bashing for so doing from….

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on Mon May 23rd 2011 at 14:19:32 Menelik Charles

Here’s what I said which caused something of a stir over at ‘The Physically Perfect Woman’….

Asian male academics are notorious for dumping, projecting, onto Black women. Remember, they are deemed are the least desirable, least masculine, men in America. They are also, by contrast seen as a model minority and thus ‘honorary whites’.

What better way to reaffirm this status, and also to boost the collective egos of ‘feminine’ Asian men by focusing on the alleged (actually, highly imagined and fictionalised) ‘masculine’ features of Black females.

The simple FACTS are that Black women have the most obvious female characteristics of ALL races of women and Asian woman (with their flat butts, boyish hips and tiny boobs) have the least!

What IS most attractive i.e. feminine about Asian women are (aside from their eyes) their flat, negroid-like noses, and fullish, negroid-like lips! Aside from this they appear to be the 1st choice of repressed homosexuals or maybe even pedophiles.

Anyway, don’t be fooled by this Asian honorary white seeking approval from his white male role models for they are the very ones stealing his women en mass (the same Asian women who refuse to date Asian men!). Yes please, don’t be fooled, sisters!

Just saying.

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on Mon May 23rd 2011 at 14:20:47 Iris

I love reading about psychology and often went to the Psychology Today website where his `articles’ were among those published. A lot of what he has written in the past is offensive and ridiculous, but this one is definitely the worst.

However, I also believe it is wrong for anyone to attack the physical appearance of Japanese and/or East Asian people in response, which I have seen happen on more than one occasion in reaction to his `article’. It only serves to continue the racism and pit two groups of racialised people against one another. Which, I believe, should not be the goals of those upset and angered by what he wrote…

For example, when I was a child, there were some Black children who threw all sorts of racial slurs at me for being half East Asian and they were physically violent towards my brother. I never, ever thought that the way to counter this was to be racist towards Black children. What would that have achieved other than to turn me into someone who did the things I hated most in the world? A horrid person who caused others to suffer just as I had? I can’t comprehend how anyone can think repeating an inflammatory action against another group is any kind of solution.

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on Mon May 23rd 2011 at 14:44:43 The Cynic

This is the exact reason why I don’t take HDB seriously…

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on Mon May 23rd 2011 at 15:25:58 Blanc2

There is no such thing as “objective” rating of beauty, as evidenced by, among other things, the way the standard of beauty even among only white women in America has evolved over time, from curvy (Marilyn Monroe/Jayne Mansfield) to rail-thin (Natalie Portman).

It’s ironic that, though many white (or Asian) Americans might perceive BW to be less attractive, WW pay lots of money for cosmetic procedures to acquire physical characteristics that BW often possess naturally: tan skin; full lips; curly, hightly textured hair; etc.

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on Mon May 23rd 2011 at 15:31:23 WarrenAZ

I read the rebuttal and it appears that indeed Mr. Kanasawa misrepresented the findings. Another thing that the rebuttal proved was that the Stand of Beauty, according to men, is clearly not white.

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on Mon May 23rd 2011 at 15:48:05 WarrenAZ

Blanc2

Your premise isn’t accurate. White women who do those things are looking to favor women like JLo and Shakira or the ideal Brazilian woman not Lauryn Hill and Malinda Williams or the ideal African woman.

That is like saying that black women get nose jobs, relaxers/weave/lace wigs, colored contacts (and now iris implants-thank goodness the “eye” thing is going out of fashion), and unnatural hair coloring to resemble white women.

What black women possess naturally is extremely difficult (and painful) to acquire anyway.

I agree that the differences black women have are more appreciated on other women, sadly. But a lot of black women are looking at what truly makes them different and owning it, something that my age group never bothered to do.

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on Mon May 23rd 2011 at 16:11:22 Menelik Charles

Blanc2 said:

It’s ironic that, though many white (or Asian) Americans might perceive BW to be less attractive, WW pay lots of money for cosmetic procedures to acquire physical characteristics that BW often possess naturally: tan skin; full lips; curly, hightly textured hair; etc.

WarrenAZ replied:

your premise isn’t accurate. White women who do those things are looking to favor women like JLo and Shakira or the ideal Brazilian woman not Lauryn Hill and Malinda Williams or the ideal African woman.

What black women possess naturally is extremely difficult (and painful) to acquire anyway.

Menelik says:

Warren, your premise isn’t accurate! There are way more white women seeking out, for example a deep dark tan by means which could cost them their lives than there are Black women bleaching their skins. More white women disfigure (or should that be correct?) their faces and bodies to acquire features and contours more common to Black women than are Black women doing the same in reverse.

And all of this means they want to appear like J-Lo and Shakira?

I think not. Whatsmore, the evidence in no way supports such an assertion. This is the work of the sub-conscious mind here, my friend! These two women are held up as a conscious means of denying what is sub-consciously desired. Clearly these women are NOT representative of white women but are a shallow version of the sub-conscious desire: Black women.

Blanc2 was right first time.

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on Mon May 23rd 2011 at 16:12:14 Awryguy

@Iris

I too am disappointed in the anti-asian tone of so many of the comments here, not to mention the ongoing homophobia.

But I’ve learned not to engage in debate with people who spell “FACTS” in all caps.

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on Mon May 23rd 2011 at 16:29:10 Menelik Charles

@ Awryguy

“Tone” or Truth?

The idea that I have anything against Asians is a gross slander. Put up or shut up!

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on Mon May 23rd 2011 at 16:34:10 The Cynic

Yeah, Satoshi Kanazawa is only one Asian dude. There is nothing we can infer about Asian/Japanese men or ppl based on him alone. I skipped over the comments that seemed like they were anti-Asian(they tended to be longer then I felt like reading at the time), but I want to say there is no point in fighting ignorance w/ more ignorance.

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on Mon May 23rd 2011 at 16:36:46 Awryguy

Sorry, but like I said you blew it with the caps.

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on Mon May 23rd 2011 at 16:37:32 leigh204

@ Iris:

However, I also believe it is wrong for anyone to attack the physical appearance of Japanese and/or East Asian people in response, which I have seen happen on more than one occasion in reaction to his `article’. It only serves to continue the racism and pit two groups of racialised people against one another. Which, I believe, should not be the goals of those upset and angered by what he wrote…

As always, you’re on point. Because some guy who happens to be of Asian descent says something idiotic, it doesn’t mean he represents all Asian.

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on Mon May 23rd 2011 at 16:38:19 leigh204

@Menelik Charles:

Why do you sound so angry?

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on Mon May 23rd 2011 at 16:38:58 The Cynic

@WarrenAZ

JLO-More than likely, part black
Brazilian women-Most of them are at least part black
Shakira-I don’t get it. She looks like a stereotypical Caucasion to me.

Basically what you’re saying is that those white women want to look like an Afro-centric version of themselves. Idk if I agree w/ that, but what you and Menelik are saying doesn’t seem to be far off…

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on Mon May 23rd 2011 at 16:50:00 CJ-Canadian

look, look, a male version of Michelle Malkin, preaching racism to be accepted in the racist white club

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on Mon May 23rd 2011 at 16:50:48 FG

Using the same dataset (Add Health), Levitt (of Freakonomics fame) and Fryer found B-W multiracial kids to be rated substantially more attractive on average than both their black and white counterparts.

If physical beauty is somehow related to race, you shouldn’t expect mixed people to be intermediate in attractiveness to their parent races. You’ve got to take into account heterosis effects as well.

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on Mon May 23rd 2011 at 16:54:47 Menelik Charles

leigh204 asked:

@Menelik Charles:

Why do you sound so angry?

Menelik replies:

SORRY?!?!?!? I would have thought what I said would have made you a tad angry but I’m delighted if it doesn’t!

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on Mon May 23rd 2011 at 16:56:09 King

“Using the same dataset (Add Health), Levitt (of Freakonomics fame) and Fryer found B-W multiracial kids to be rated substantially more attractive on average than both their black and white counterparts.”

Yeah, that’s like rating the color green to be *substantially* more attractive than the colors blue and yellow.

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on Mon May 23rd 2011 at 16:57:12 leigh204

@Menelik Charles:

Why should I be angry? It’s a waste of my time to be upset over your comments. And with your being delighted says more about you than it does to me.

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on Mon May 23rd 2011 at 17:03:17 mrbootyluver

I missed all this as i was away on holiday in spain but when i read what he has blogged l’d haver kicked him out of the UK. ( yes i’m being racist) I can’t believe that he’s actually employed by the LSE !!!!

It is so subjective and also who picks the images?

Also I have to question the mind of a m,an who classes a 12yr old girl as a woman and makes people rate their attractiveness!! The man’s a paedo hiding behind science. If you want attractiveness I’ll line up my 35-60yr old black woman against any other race.

Also what does a native american actually look like in 2011?

The student body are trying to get him sacked, i hope they succeed!!

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on Mon May 23rd 2011 at 17:05:03 nhandi

The world should just realize that they’re are ugly people and beautiful people no matter what race instead of making all these idiotic reasons why so and so is not like so and so because of so and so. If people can come up with these crazy ideologies, then they can destroy crazy ideologies

Nhandi

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on Mon May 23rd 2011 at 17:06:16 mrbootyluver

I agree with what Menelick Charles wrote.

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on Mon May 23rd 2011 at 17:13:52 Menelik Charles

leigh204 asked:

@Menelik Charles:

Why do you sound so angry?

Menelik replies:

SORRY?!?!?!? I would have thought what I said would have made you a tad angry but I’m delighted if it doesn’t!

leigh204 replied:

Why should I be angry? It’s a waste of my time to be upset over your comments. And with your being delighted says more about you than it does to me.

Menelik asks:

and why should I “sounds so angry”? This comment says a lot more about your PROJECTION (of anger) than it does about anything I was feeling!

Just saying.

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on Mon May 23rd 2011 at 17:20:24 leigh204

@Menelik Charles:

Ahh, the good ol’ projection thing. Keep at it. That’s what you do best.

Just saying.

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on Mon May 23rd 2011 at 17:22:20 Menelik Charles

What exactly am I projecting? Please explain.

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on Mon May 23rd 2011 at 17:22:28 Gen

Awryguy makes a good point. Rating the attractiveness of a pre-pubescent? What is that?! What’s the point of tracking attractiveness anyway?

The bit about Japanese men and young girls isn’t entirely true, those manga and cartoons are made for a certain demographic, its kinda like judging American people based on the kind of folks who show up at Comic Con.

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on Mon May 23rd 2011 at 17:23:54 King

I agree with what Menelick Charles wrote.

Yes, but your mrbootyluver blogsite is full of porno pics of Black women.

Just saying!

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on Mon May 23rd 2011 at 17:55:38 The Cynic

I wonder if the people who accepted the initial result of Satoshi’s findings now reject this new revelation? What about those who initially said this study was BS? What do ppl feel about Asian women being rated the most attractive, with white women coming in second to last, and Native Americans being rated the ugliest?

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on Mon May 23rd 2011 at 18:04:27 WarrenAZ

@Menelik
I have to disagree with you and no my premise if pretty solid. I like being black and female. Those videos I linked in the Physically Perfect Woman thread are what I consider a ideal for black women who look like me. The way I feel about being a black woman isn’t contingent on what white women are trying to do to alter their appearance. A white women could say the same thing about us in terms of our hair, contacts, nose jobs, bleaching, and constant dark-skin gripes. That is the problem I have with the statement Blanc2 made. It leaves black women open for the same critique. We should be able to celebrate our differences regardless of what other groups, mainly white women, are doing. That is like a black man who loves his blackness because it makes white men uneasy and white women horny.

@Cynic
I’ll take Shakira off considering that she doesn’t look very “ethnic” but JLo and the Brazilian ideal is an example of blackness taken in degrees or comfortable moderation. The side affect is an illustration of the “best of both worlds”. Lighter skin, long straight/er hair, and curves. That is equally damaging in my opinion because this is type thinking that leads black women to resent their lighter sisters.

White women want to look Latina or racially ambiguous, not the image of black African.

So I’ll say again, black women (we/us) need to stop making other women a factor, the differences are too obvious.

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on Mon May 23rd 2011 at 18:25:54 The Cynic

Oh wait, nvm. According to the Add Health study there weren’t any differences btwn ethnicities in attractiveness in Wave 4. Though, I wonder why they didn’t combine the results of Wave 3 with the aforementioned data set. The 18-23 Young adult age group is still considered adulthood by the US government and many Americans, even if Add Health classifies them as a separate age group.

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on Mon May 23rd 2011 at 18:41:09 King

“What do ppl feel about Asian women being rated the most attractive, with white women coming in second to last, and Native Americans being rated the ugliest?”

It’s all ridiculous.

The Black woman visual stereotype is the *most attractive* if you are attracted to certain things, and Asian woman visual stereotype is *most attractive* if you are are attracted to other things. And Native Americans are Asian immigrants.

So Asians seem to be on the both at the very top and the very bottom of this new hierarchy .

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on Mon May 23rd 2011 at 18:48:24 Menelik Charles

WarrenAZ said:

I have to disagree with you and no my premise if pretty solid. I like being black and female…The way I feel about being a black woman isn’t contingent on what white women are trying to do to alter their appearance. A white women could say the same thing about us in terms of our hair, contacts, nose jobs, bleaching, and constant dark-skin gripes.

That is the problem I have with the statement Blanc2 made. It leaves black women open for the same critique. We should be able to celebrate our differences regardless of what other groups, mainly white women, are doing. That is like a black man who loves his blackness because it makes white men uneasy and white women horny.

Menelik replies:

nothing wrong with disagreeing. I disagree with you (but hopefully without being disagreeable). firstly, whatever charge white women level at Black women with regards the application of skin bleach, hair straighteners etc could easily be explained by detailing a whole brain-washing-process (stretching back to slavery) compelling Black women to behave in such ways.

What excuse do white women have to do what they do in reverse? 400yrs of Black dominance over their people and how they perceive themselves? Black mass media manipulation, and marginalization, of the white female image?

I think not!

What they do is due in large part to the fact that we reside in cosmopolitan societies in which people of all races rub shoulders together in the workplace, on the street in the club etc. Thus we are constantly comparing ourselves to that which is different…and often not liking what we see in ourselves in comparison.

White men see exactly what Black women look like (in freedom) and they make comparisons which threatens their racial egos and since the white female is the cornerstone of white supremacy the Black female image presents an enormous threat, indeed!

White women also see exactly what Black women look like (in freedom) and they make comparisons which threatens their feminine egos.

As a sub-conscious means of acknowledging the power of this threat posed by the Black female, white men subtract desired features from the Black female and seek to project and attach them to white women so as to displace the desired Black female in the white sub-conscious.

The Black women produces both anxiety and desire in white men, and envy and loathing in white females. To erase the Black female norm (negroid features, dark-brown skins and shapely booties) they use the mass media to promote ‘Black’ female images which actually undermine the image of Black women and reinforces instead their own white image e.g. Beyonce, RiRi, J-Lo etc. This is why such women get play in white men’s magazines and the Kelly Rowlands of the world don’t!

Meanwhile white men continue to suck on the breast of the nations mammy, Oprah…

Just saying.

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on Mon May 23rd 2011 at 18:58:15 Usagi

I didn’t ever read the article. It sounded funny as hell to me. What is he basing this on ? I’ve read several articles about how bw are seen as unattractive and that we’re lonely or something, but it don’t get it. My experiences are the complete opposite from what he’s saying. I consider myslef a bw and all my previous boyfriends nickname for me as geisha. My boyfriend of English descent would very much disagree with his “scienctic” research. On average, most Asian and white people find me very attractive. More than AA or those of W.African descent. I have no idea why ? I was going to marry a Chinese man and his whole family was cool with me. Maybe it’s personality ? It think it’s kinda weird. I read the articles and stories about how hard it is to date as a bw, but I don’t see it. I think that they overblow it to lower bw’s selfesteem. I find it weird as a black woman that non-blacks will find more attractive than the blonde standard/Halley berrie look alikes. Is it because of my east/North African descent or because we’re more alike in culture than AA ? If anyone knows, feel free to reply because I would like to know……………..

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on Mon May 23rd 2011 at 20:11:00 brothawolf

This dude is but another example of the dark programming that values light or white skin above dark skin. This kind of programming is not limited to whites, but other POC.

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on Mon May 23rd 2011 at 20:40:23 The Cynic

@WarrenAZ

You lost me. I wasn’t necessarily agreeing or disagreeing with you. In fact, I had no opinion. All i said was that the two of your opinions(you & Menelik) dont appear to be horribly different.

In your response, it seemed as if you started off talking about what white women wanted to look like then went off into blk women. Are you saying both black & white women wish they looked mixed?

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on Mon May 23rd 2011 at 21:32:26 jas0nburns

Here’s the part I don’t get. I could see how a mostly white test group may have given BW a low rating in attractiveness, what I don’t understand is how you make the leap from that to just stating that BW are less attractive. I mean beauty is in the eye of the beholder and culture plays a role in what we do or don’t find
attractive.

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on Mon May 23rd 2011 at 21:43:40 jas0nburns

“Are you saying both black & white women wish they looked mixed?”

Because we totally need to have THAT discussion again. It’s always so productive.

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on Mon May 23rd 2011 at 22:25:38 Ankhesen

…what I don’t understand is how you make the leap from that to just stating that BW are less attractive.

Because to folks like Kanazawa and the people they poll, whatever WP say is what goes, and to hell with everybody else.

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on Mon May 23rd 2011 at 22:38:38 laromana

Here we go again with another brand of ANTI-BW BS disguised as “science”. I’m happy to see that more people are seing ANTI-BW RACISM for what it is instead of telling BW we’re “seeing things or overreacting”.
What pissed me off the most about this outrageous show of ANTI-BW HATE is that, yet again, I didn’t see MOST BM doing their job of defending the humanity, dignity, femininity, and beauty of BW.
Instead, I’ve read the responses of some self hating ANTI-BW BM who have the nerve to agree with the ANTI-BW HATE and imply that BW who are angered by this article are “just looking for WM’s approval”.
Perhaps I should be shocked by the continual lack of respect from ANTI-BW BM towards BW as they condone/promote ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE but I’m just really disgusted by it.

SOME ANTI-BW BM may care less how BW are viewed/mistreated because, at the moment, they are considered very attractive/desirable in American culture/media, but they should be smart enough to know that those who hate/trash the women who birthed them, really feel the SAME way about them.

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on Mon May 23rd 2011 at 23:26:40 Millie

This man should take a good(bad) look in the mirror.
Maybe he should research himself.LOL

Where school did he receive his degree from? “I PUT MY FOOT IN MY MOUTH”,UNIVERSITY.LOL

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on Mon May 23rd 2011 at 23:38:21 WarrenAZ

@Cynic

LOL. To your last sentence, that is exacty what I’m saying.

@Menelik

I know “the why and how”, we don’t disagree there. But if we use Blanc2’s premise than we have to be ready to answer the same line of questioning and no one wants to do that.

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on Mon May 23rd 2011 at 23:49:38 brothawolf

“…To folks like Kanazawa and the people they poll, whatever WP say is what goes, and to hell with everybody else.”

-Ankhesen

That’s exactly what it is.

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on Tue May 24th 2011 at 00:14:14 Eva

As much as I want to see this guy’s career in flames, and think he is an awful scientist, writer, and human being for this racist and misogynist crap, I don’t think the racism in this comment thread is justifiable.

This one man does not represent all Asian people, and it is not acceptable to demean Asian women (by making generalizations about them being “the first choice of repressed homosexuals and maybe even pedophiles”) because of his heinous foolishness.

I’ve never liked all the itemizing of female features that is common in this sort of thread, but geez. Not acceptable.

There is SO much to pick apart about this man and his hateful, oppressive, all-around shitty work. You do not need to resort to demeaning Asian people to criticize him.

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on Tue May 24th 2011 at 00:23:34 Eva

I’m sorry fort he double-post, I was just taken aback by some of these comments.

To get back on-topic, I can’t believe this guy. This is SUCH sloppy science for such a clearly crooked viewpoint that it reminds me of the pathetic eugenics “science” that was popular a hundred years ago. His other articles have also been terrible, claiming that it’s “evolution” that he be more attracted to blonde women because blondeness signifies youth, and that it makes sense for powerful heterosexual men to treat their female partners with cruel infidelity as they age.

All that aside, I have to ask, has this man ever even seen a black woman?! You’d think having ever encountered even photographs in his life would have disproven this hypothesis…

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on Tue May 24th 2011 at 01:28:40 Michael

This man is a Jerk of the worst Kind I happen to be a white man that loves the look of a black women for which I am married too. Instead of putting your so called expertise in debasing the Black Woman who I find delightful and one of the most beautiful desirable woman in this country and I have traveled to many other countries and see their beauty and they are women of great substance. Try helping your people in Japan on needed issues of importance. e.g. the recent earthquake, low fertility rates, economic stagnation, and don’t overlook the recent nuclear radiation cloud which is a threat to Japan and quite possibly this country. Your worthless propaganda is indicative of a low gene poll person with narrow minded notions and ploys,

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on Tue May 24th 2011 at 01:49:11 Jaydub

Playing devils advocate:

He said black women, so citing your own attraction to some black women or yourself doesn’t really refute what he said.

I have a question, what would you guys say if this guy used similar scientific methods of those that perform ethnic based IQ studies?

Those results consistently say Africans have lower IQs than Caucasians. Of which he references to “correct” for biases as attractiveness is loosely associated with IQ. Many well respected scientist believe in this IQ difference and not just that, but that it is an inherent one.

I’m sure there are brilliant scientist who can come to the same conclusions about black women using scientifically sound methods.

And most people believe this subconsciously, so this guy is just trying to prove it scientifically. Right? Success = X + Y + Z; and this British Japanese psychologist just changed the value of Z(z = keeping your mouth shut).

The underlying questions about this issue is ?

Do black women have high levels of testosterone? Is this just African American women or all African women? Do High testosterone levels have an effect on female attractiveness? Does skin color play a role in attractiveness? Media Images and black female presentations?

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on Tue May 24th 2011 at 01:57:05 King

Eva, just for clarification, which racism in the thread are you objecting to?

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on Tue May 24th 2011 at 02:07:42 louie jacuzzi

This has got to be some kind of head game to get some black luvin, you know, talk crazy to em, be mean to em, get em all riled up and emotional, the bam, move in for the kill, pimp game I tell ya, naw jk, at least rushton/jenson/sailer are discreet with their scientific racism

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on Tue May 24th 2011 at 02:32:26 louie jacuzzi

Or perhaps its a form of ethno-genetic balancing, where you have a group of people known for their achievement, so in order to “balance” the gene pool you have to have a few astronomical screw ups, a la germany, all those brilliant mathematicians/scientists, you had to balance it with an Adolf Hitler

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on Tue May 24th 2011 at 02:56:00 Menelik Charles

Jaydub asked?

The underlying questions about this issue asked is?

Do black women have higher levels of testosterone? Is this just African-American women or all African women? Do High testosterone levels have an effect on female attractiveness? Does skin color play a role in attractiveness? Media Images and black female presentations?

Menelik replies:

it seems like this ‘testosterone question’ is something of a red herring designed specifically to slur the femininity of Black females. Whatsmore, testosterone is on the inside of the body not the outside!

The questions thus are: is it the case that Black women are the most clearly defined females (i.e. with their more obvious secondary sex signals such as broad baby-like noses, thick lips, small waists, relatively long legs, and high-rounded buttocks) in comparison with all other races of females? Put another way: are Black women less ambiguously female than than all other races of females?

Also does colour/melanin cause them to age less rapidly than all other races of women?

Put together, does the visibly female appearance, along with their slow ageing process, and graceful, feminine, gait, mean that Black women are the most naturally attractive females on earth?

Just playing Devil’s advocate, you understand!

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on Tue May 24th 2011 at 03:15:41 Awryguy

@Eva

I agree with most of what you wrote, but I’m curious about the examples of Kanazawa’s work that you chose to criticize.

“His other articles have also been terrible, claiming that it’s “evolution” that he be more attracted to blonde women because blondeness signifies youth, and that it makes sense for powerful heterosexual men to treat their female partners with cruel infidelity as they age.”

I can actually see how both of these make sense from an evolutionary psychologist’s perspective. The first would only apply to white men, however, as presumably they were the ones encountering white women often enough to produce a genetic preference. Still, blonde hair does often darken with age, and there is certainly a wealth of evidence to suggest that men are attracted to younger women – so why do you feel it’s so unlikely? Unless he specifically said that men of all races should prefer blonde hair. That would just be silly, since naturally blonde hair in an African woman wouldn’t signal youth, just recessive albinism.

As for the 2nd conclusion, I know it doesn’t paint a pretty picture, but the genetic advantages of male infidelity are pretty well established. Simply put, some men who mated with more women had more children, thus securing a bigger chunk of the next generation’s gene pool; those children (the male ones anyway), because of biological and social influenes from their fathers, went on to have more children of their own… and so on. In the long run genes for male fidelity were in an unfair competition.

That doesn’t mean biology is destiny, of course, and men today should have the intelligence and empathy to foresee the pain that cheating (or raping) will cause and overcome their impulses. Consider that 1 in 200 men alive today are direct male-line descendents of Genghis Khan! Being genetically successful isn’t always the same as being a good man.

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on Tue May 24th 2011 at 04:28:37 Terrazine

Africans (well, those slavers selecting for Africans for America) selected for the manliest men. Therefore they also have the manliest women.

Japanese selected for the most effeminate women. Therefore they also have the most effeminate men.

The prettiest African women are from East, not West Africa. Skin color is just another exotic thing when body shape falls into beauty norms.

And if the composite picture of female faces by country is any indication, the world’s ugliest women are from not Africa, but…

…Samoa.

IE, the BIGGEST MANLIEST ISLAND MEN in the world with radical over-representation in the NFL also have the BIGGEST MANLIEST ISLAND WOMEN and also the ugliest.

So Satoshi Kanazawa’s testosterone thesis is actually probably right, he just picked the wrong group for ugliest.

But no one cares about Samoan women.

Caveat: Black and Samoan women do, in fact, seem to AGE better than higher initial beauties of the white or Asian extraction, who hit the wall hard and fast after menopause. The hardier varieties at least keep what beauty they have when the others turn into overnight perma-hags.

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on Tue May 24th 2011 at 04:41:40 The Cynic

Sigh… all of this controversy is dumb. Yes, most of us don’t believe it, but BEAUTY IS SUBJECTIVE. Yes, we can talk about the consensus or 51% averages, but why does the consensus matters? All you need is one person to find you attractive and you’ll be good. We put a lot of focus on physical looks, but their is also this other thing called PERSONALITY! I’d take the average looking girl with the great personality over the vapid bombshell any day.

This race controversy when it comes to beauty is superficial and immature…

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on Tue May 24th 2011 at 04:52:53 Menelik Charles

@ Terrazine,

you’re laughably dishonest, really you are lol. You make a sideways reference to my post and then come up with a silly assertion as it relates to Black women, and then go on a mini rant about Samoan women!

Seriously, you’re a joke! Answer my questions point-by-point (all of which are derived from fact (e.g. that Black women are physically the most clearly defined females of all races of women) and see where we end up, shall we.

You silly sausage lol

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on Tue May 24th 2011 at 05:01:54 The Cynic

@Terrazine

I have no idea where you got that link or if it is even credible, but the African American chick was one of the hottest women in the link in my opinion. I would take her over the majority of the Asian & European women composites based on looks alone.

From all of the composite women of Afro-descent I’d have to say: African American>Ethiopian>Central African=Puerto Rican> West African.

I agree that the Samoan women was the least attractive

Now lets see if everybody agrees with me…

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on Tue May 24th 2011 at 05:27:30 King

“And if the composite picture of female faces by country is any indication, the world’s ugliest women are from not Africa, but…

…Samoa.

IE, the BIGGEST MANLIEST ISLAND MEN in the world with radical over-representation in the NFL also have the BIGGEST MANLIEST ISLAND WOMEN and also the ugliest.”

What an idiot. Here are your ugly, massive, Samoans, awash in testosterone!

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on Tue May 24th 2011 at 06:08:02 Awryguy

@Terrazine

Horribly ham-handed arguments, but cool link! I found the Peruvian woman most attractive, and the Latvian/Lithuanian girl least (she has kind of a creepy porcelain doll look).

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on Tue May 24th 2011 at 07:34:24 abagond

About ugly Samoan women:

I am pretty sure that whoever made those pictures is not into Samoan women. If he were, he would have made sure to get plenty of good-looking ones to make his morph picture of the “average” Samoan woman.

Or, to put it another way, if you went to Walmart and used the first ten white women you came across to make your morph, it would not come out looking as good as most of the whites ones in that link:

For a long time I have noticed that on average the black women on American television are not as good looking as the white women. There is a beauty gap that you do not see on the streets.

Why is that? Because many directors and producers see black women as asexual.

You see that in the kinds of parts they get – like nurses, receptionists and judges where their sexuality is not what matters to the story.

You see it in how many black actresses are given supporting characters to play, ones that are not fleshed out (meaning not much of a love life, for example). It is almost a rule that supporting characters cannot be better looking than the leads.

You see it in how it was even worse in the past: before 1950 most black women in American films were Mammy-style maids whose main virtue was not their female charms but their love of white people. Lena Horne in the 1940s sticks out like a supernova.

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on Tue May 24th 2011 at 08:09:34 abagond

Kanazawa is a nut. To judge Asian men by him is like judging black men by some black rapist. It makes just as little sense.

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on Tue May 24th 2011 at 08:47:13 Menelik Charles

Abagond said:

for a long time I have noticed that on average the black women on American television are not as good looking as the white women. There is a beauty gap that you do not see on the streets.

Why is that?

Because many directors and producers see black women as asexual. You see that in the kinds of parts they get – like nurses, receptionists and judges where their sexuality is not what matters to the story.

Menelik says:

with respect, white directors and producers DO view Black women as sexual, sensual, seductive etc and herein lies the problem. The problem is that Black women more effortlessly possess these female qualities than do white women: in or out of clothes!

Much the same happens to Black men in white/Jewish Hollywood i.e. they are sexually neutered so as not to be seen to threaten the masculine potency of the white male lead or co-star.

Just saying.

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on Tue May 24th 2011 at 08:49:22 leigh204

@abagond:

Kanazawa is a nut. To judge Asian men by him is like judging black men by some black rapist. It makes just as little sense.

You said it, abagond. *thumbsup*

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on Tue May 24th 2011 at 11:05:50 eco

@Menelik Charles

“Black women are physically the most clearly defined females of all races of women”

Says who?

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on Tue May 24th 2011 at 11:22:31 Kanazawasucks

Kanazawa isn’t just a nut, his slimy face makes me want to throw up. He’s a disgrace to Asian men, physically and intellectually.

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on Tue May 24th 2011 at 14:03:22 Eva

Agabond is very right.

King:

Just for a few examples:

“Instead he looks pretty much as an carichature of oriental whiner.” sam

“comparing the physiques of Black women to Asian women and identifying white men repressed homo-erotic interest in Asian females… Aside from this they appear to be the 1st choice of repressed homosexuals or maybe even pedophiles.” Menelik Charles

(Reducing Asian women’s physical attractiveness to a mere outlet for “repressed homo[sexuals]”? Sexism, racism, and heterosexism in a holy trifecta in this idea… As right as Charles is for talking about how throwing black folk under the bus is a way to Whiteness for other POC, it is not right to demean Asian women in this way).

Also, basically all that nonsense about Japanese men being pedophiles. Japanese culture certainly does allow for certain cultural artifacts relating to those themes being proliferated, but I think Kanazawa is a westerner living in England so we should think of him in that context– to do otherwise is to neatly tuck him into the “perpetual foreigner” stereotype.

And lastly, pegging him as a “disgrace to his race” is problematic in general, but that’s recent.

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on Tue May 24th 2011 at 14:18:49 sam

Oh man, samoans are ugly. Yeah, we’ve all seen those horrible looking dancers of the Pacific Islands who are soo manly, those hawaiians with their swinging hips are soo butchy, tahitian women who are soo terrible that guys on Bounty did not even want to go back home at all after seeing them in their ugliness!

And again, black women and testosterone! What a do doo! Look at the white female bodybuilders and you see what testosterone does for women.

Guys like Kanazawa are lost. They are lost in the wilderness of ideas from 1800’s. Why? Because we do know now, with absolute certainty, that there is only one human race on this planet. Essentially we are all africans, if we look genes. We are all africans biologically.

For some that is too much. They want cultural things to be biological. They wish that cultural things are biological because they are affraid. What are they affraid of? Being african!

White skin, as well as the asian physical features, are just gene mutations. Nothing more. In essence, a white man is just an albino african. Japanese man is a african man with a gene mutation. Look at the natives of Kalahari! Those guys could fit in japanese fishing boat just like that.

There is no real biological difference between a guy from Ghana and a guy from Tshelyabinsk, Ural, if we look at them as in spieces. They are the same. Just like you can have great dane which is blueish grey or brown with tiger stripes or sandbrown etc. They can be even in the same set of puppies, but they are all still great danes.

Black womens beauty is a cultural thing. Thank god/creator/whatever all these fictional race barriers are tumbling down one by one and we will end up in the same racial cocktail as Brazil one day. No more blacks, whites, brown, none of these stupid fictional “races”.

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on Tue May 24th 2011 at 14:20:04 Eva

(Sorry for the double-post above, Abagond. Can you delete one of them? Thank you very much).

Awryguy:

[i]”I can actually see how both of these make sense from an evolutionary psychologist’s perspective. The first would only apply to white men, however, as presumably they were the ones encountering white women often enough to produce a genetic preference. Still, blonde hair does often darken with age, and there is certainly a wealth of evidence to suggest that men are attracted to younger women – so why do you feel it’s so unlikely? Unless he specifically said that men of all races should prefer blonde hair. That would just be silly, since naturally blonde hair in an African woman wouldn’t signal youth, just recessive albinism.”[/i]

Every naturally blond-haired person I know has dirty-blond, brownish hair by pubescence. That flossy-blond hair IS a trademark of youth and in later teenagers and adults it’s mostly just a dye job– as in, blondness, if it is a signifier of any age, it is that of pre-pubescence.

As in, before child-bearing age.

If a woman is too young when she gives birth, she is significantly more likely to have complications. It makes no evolutionary sense to be attracted to pre-pubescent girls; this is just more creepy pseudo-science designed to “scientifically” justify age-mismatched (and therefore power-imbalanced) preferences. And, as you stated, it makes absolutely no sense for any race other than some northern Europeans– and since genetic differences between races are so small, I highly doubt it’s rooted in that. Blond hair is too recent a development, I’d wager.

Just as “science” has tried to justify racism with harebrained ideas, it has tried to justify misogyny in the same way.
This is about keeping women in their place by saying that it is natural and sensible.

[i]”As for the 2nd conclusion, I know it doesn’t paint a pretty picture, but the genetic advantages of male infidelity are pretty well established. Simply put, some men who mated with more women had more children, thus securing a bigger chunk of the next generation’s gene pool; those children (the male ones anyway), because of biological and social influenes from their fathers, went on to have more children of their own… and so on. In the long run genes for male fidelity were in an unfair competition.

That doesn’t mean biology is destiny, of course, and men today should have the intelligence and empathy to foresee the pain that cheating (or raping) will cause and overcome their impulses. Consider that 1 in 200 men alive today are direct male-line descendents of Genghis Khan! Being genetically successful isn’t always the same as being a good man.”[/i]

Yes, but we do a lot of things that aren’t seemingly “beneficial.” If that were the case we’d all be sociopaths with literally no sense of obligation or love for one another (rather than the insufficient selective ones most of us presently have, heh). But right now, in 2011, this has nothing to do with evolution and everything to do with power imbalance. It makes evolutionary sense for me to go out and a have a bunch of babies right now, but that isn’t happening– and not because I am doing my social duty by repressing my ~natural desires~ to be irresponsible.

Rarely do people run around trying to justify women behaving badly because of “evolution.” It always conveniently serves racist and misogynist purposes… In this “science” it is all about trying to justify a preexisting cultural idea rather than actually understanding humanity and coming up with decent hypotheses.

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on Tue May 24th 2011 at 14:20:49 Eva

Aw, crud, triple posting failure. Sorry my italics don’t work. Do you use regular HTML on wordpress comments?

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on Tue May 24th 2011 at 14:23:24 Eva

Quadruple for misspelling Abagond’s name in my first post. Arrghh!! Very sincere apologies, Abagond.

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on Tue May 24th 2011 at 14:54:13 Iris

Eva:
but I think Kanazawa is a westerner living in England so we should think of him in that context– to do otherwise is to neatly tuck him into the “perpetual foreigner” stereotype.

I was about to bring up the same point… I have only seen one person here describe him as a `British Japanese’. Everywhere else they take one look at his face, name and, in some cases, begin flinging the anti-Japanese insults.

—–

What is the difference between Satoshi Kanazawa saying (to paraphrase) `It is a fact that Black women are ugly because A, B and C’ and anyone saying `It is a fact that X women are ugly because A, B and C’? Apart from the X (where any race/ethnicity can be substituted), there is no difference. People who say these things, they are all one and the same… They may claim to hate and be disgusted by someone who says these comments against people of their race, but then they go and do this `hateful’ and `disgusting’ thing themselves!

I think Kanazawa and people like him are arrogant. Ignoring the obvious racism, that is what I think. To me, it reeks of arrogance to believe one’s opinion about X race is so right, it is impossible for it to be wrong. To seemingly be so irritated by other people’s preferences that one must go out of their way to prove their opinion is a fact, that it’s the truth! Kanazawa misinterprets and twists things from someone else’s research, others cling to bits and bobs found online from unqualified, racist `researchers’ or simply go on their limited empirical findings, which are more often than not very heavily affected by confirmation biases. e.g. So-and-so believes all Americans are fat, so they only notice the fat Americans they meet and any who do not fit so-and-so’s beliefs fly under their radar.

Having the inability to accept the preferences of others seems incredibly immature to me. That you have to insult whom you’re not attracted to and demean anybody who is attracted to them. It reminds me of my brother when he was a small child. If I ever admitted I did not like something he loved he would scream, wail, shout insults at me and what I liked, hurl objects at me and throw a tantrum. How dare I not be the same as him! What I like is poo and I am stupid for liking it! That is what he would yell. I feel people that spread their opinions on such a subjective topic as beauty like their beliefs are the truth are exactly like this.

I also think they are so full of themselves and their own opinions because, while many people will tell him/her it is wrong and racist, he/she will shrug and say these `oversensitive’ people are afraid to accept the truth, then whine that he/she is being bullied only for stating facts. Then, when one person seems to agree ever so slightly, he/she will cling to this one person desperately! See, I speak the truth! What I say is fact! One person agrees, therefore the other nine that disagree are wrong! The person who believes his/her opinion about X race is fact will never look at him/herself and think, `Hmm, the majority finds what I said to be incorrect and racist… Why is that? Perhaps what I have said is racist and wrong.’

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on Tue May 24th 2011 at 14:54:41 Menelik Charles

Menelik Charles said:

Black women are physically the most clearly defined females of all races of women.

eco asked:

Says who?

Menelik responds:

loooooooooool I’m afraid my statement has nothing whatsoever to do with my preference, prejudice or whatever you choose to call, my man!

The scientists who say such things are the very people Satoshi Kanazawa and Jarad Diamond relied upon in order to acquire degrees in at least two of their subjects!

It aint me speaking, therefore, sir, its the anatomical truth! Please, do try and undermine it with anything you consider to be evidence.

I’ll wait!

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on Tue May 24th 2011 at 15:01:15 Menelik Charles

@ the hand-wringers,

People on here are constantly talking about insults leveled at Asian people…can they please give examples? Not examples of what are, indeed, facts (e.g. Asian women have boyish hips, flat butts) but ones in which something has been said which is demonstrably untrue, at least in general about Asian folk as a group.

Oh, and do provide quotes if you will: thanks!

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on Tue May 24th 2011 at 15:49:14 Eva

I already provided quotes.

Calling value judgments (“boyish hips,” “flat butts”) on a race’s physique is not “facts.” The adjectives you chose were very loaded, insulting, and for that matter were gross generalizations. I have seen curvy Asian women, no Asian woman’s hips are “boyish.” They are “Asian womannish.” God and genetics did not simply get it wrong and give hips of the inappropriate sex and age to an entire race of women. Ridiculous.

Accusing those who question your claims of being “hand-wringers” is just pathetic and a nice attempt at derailing. Disparaging the features of POC is oppressive and wrong.

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on Tue May 24th 2011 at 17:16:33 aggef

This guy just grosses me out on the whole. If I were a white woman, I would feel disgusted by his ‘academic’ work praising white beauty. (No, I’m not a black woman.)

It’s good to know that LSE doctorol students are taking action against him, but I’m still disappointed in LSE and Psychology Today being so quiet about him for such a long time.

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on Tue May 24th 2011 at 17:23:43 Menelik Charles

@ the hand-wringers,

people on here are constantly talking about insults leveled at Asian people…can they please give examples? Not examples of what are, indeed, facts (e.g. Asian women have boyish hips, flat butts) but ones in which something has been said which is demonstrably untrue, at least in general about Asian folk as a group.

Oh, and do provide quotes if you will: thanks!

Eva replied:

I already provided quotes.

Calling value judgments (“boyish hips,” “flat butts”) on a race’s physique is not “facts.” The adjectives you chose were very loaded, insulting, and for that matter were gross generalizations.

I have seen curvy Asian women, no Asian woman’s hips are “boyish.” They are “Asian womannish.”

Menelik replies:

do you know what? I would rather you call me the N-word than treat me as some kind of idiot! In fact, I’d prefer you call my mother a whore!

Seriously, lady, I’m sick of people like you ascribing to me intellectual and moral characteristic I do not posses! I don’t do idiot, I do MENSA intellect! Neither do I do untruths, I do general truths!

You, do rare exceptions and then claim them as a general rule (e.g. “I have seen curvy Asian women”), you make completely untrue and twisted assertions and then claim them as truth (e.g. “no Asian woman’s hips are “boyish.” They are “Asian womannish.”). You do PC make-believe instead of verifiable truth.

Now you want us to believe that you accusing me of making alleged value judgments is not in fact exactly what YOU have made regarding the physical appearance of the masses of Asian females:

“a value judgment is a judgment of the rightness…of something… based on a personal view”.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value_judgment

The vast majority of Asian women are short in comparison to most women of other races: fact. Doubtless you’ll counter with: ” I have seen tall Asian women, therefore, you are wrong, they are Asian tall!”

I am generally right and you are generally wrong as anyone on here can testify (but won’t!). I did not make “disparaging” comment re the physical characteristics of Asian females: I simply stated observable truths! You clearly cannot handle the truth!

Chew on these adjectives, Einstein:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081213140213AAgfZGj

Your logic is truly appalling but your PC moralising is very much worse!

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on Tue May 24th 2011 at 17:24:46 Menelik Charles

awaiting moderation: why? What have I said or done now?

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on Tue May 24th 2011 at 17:25:36 King

@ Eva

Yes, I think there were some places above where prevailing social attitudes toward Asian men were being *referenced* but not necessarily justified.

Also, saying that someone is a “disgrace to his race,” is an archaic way of thinking, but not necessarily racist.

However, the generalizations about how Asian women look, I did find to be racist.

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on Tue May 24th 2011 at 17:56:20 Awryguy

@Eva

“Every naturally blond-haired person I know has dirty-blond, brownish hair by pubescence. That flossy-blond hair IS a trademark of youth and in later teenagers and adults it’s mostly just a dye job– as in, blondness, if it is a signifier of any age, it is that of pre-pubescence.

As in, before child-bearing age.”

Ah. I’ve grown up around some blonde people, and I didn’t notice that the change from blonde to dirty-blonde so uniformly accompanies the onset of ovulation. Do you know of any statistics or research on that? It would be a shame to abandon the topic because we have different anecdotal memories. Obviously I don’t believe that sexual attraction to pre-pubescent girls would have served an evolutionary advantage, so if they’re the only natural blondes I’ll dismiss the hypothesis outright.

“Yes, but we do a lot of things that aren’t seemingly ‘beneficial’; If that were the case we’d all be sociopaths with literally no sense of obligation or love for one another.”

There are many strong theories as to how genetic self-interest encourages empathy and social bonding. I like Richard Dawkin’s formulation in “The Selfish Gene”, in which genes which best enable their bodies to gauge social risks and rewards are able to spread and maintain themselves in the population. It’s a big theory, but if you just look at the other social animals it becomes clear that there are sound genetic advantages to protecting your kin.

“Rarely do people run around trying to justify women behaving badly because of ‘evolution.’ “

Ask and ye shall receive!

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/07/100707152248.htm

“As more women wait until their 30s and 40s to have children, they are more willing to engage in a variety of sexual activities to capitalize on their remaining childbearing years… Such “reproduction expediting” includes one-night stands and adventurous bedroom behavior, the research shows.

The study outlines for the first time the changes in women’s reproductive behavior across the life cycle from an evolutionary standpoint. The researchers attribute these differences to ingrained psychological mechanisms rooted in each gender’s adaptive responses over millennia of human evolution.”

There you go, some friendly evolutionary biologists sharing their hypothesis on why women engage in more ‘bad behaviour’ as they age. Although as I said earlier, biology isn’t destiny; scientists are there to explain behaviour, not justify it.

“In this “science” it is all about trying to justify a preexisting cultural idea rather than actually understanding humanity and coming up with decent hypotheses.”

I’m sorry but I just profoundly disagree with your assessment of evolutionary biology. It’s not a field full of bigots looking to defend their worldviews. For a brilliant introduction, I suggest Carl Sagan and Ann Druyan’s Shadows of Forgotten Ancestors. It’s beautifully written, and they do a better job than I ever could of explaining why the research is important and helpful, even if it sometimes holds up an ugly reflection of mankind.

I also greatly enjoyed Sex and War: How Biology Explains Warfare and Terrorism and Offers a Path to a Safer World by Potts and Hayden. The sheer bulk and diversity of the evidence they present is the attraction, although the presentation is hurt by rushed editing and chronic typos.

For a more anecdotal and upbeat analysis, there’s anything by Dutch primatologist Frans de Waal. I particularly like Our Inner Ape because he focuses on bonobos, our lesser-known chimp relatives; the ones that are peaceful, matriarchal and rampantly bisexual. It’s a fun read, and you can’t help hoping that we share more with the bonobos (pan paniscus) than those violent regular chimps (pan troglodytes).

It really is unfair to dismiss the whole field because of a few quacks.

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on Tue May 24th 2011 at 18:05:52 Awryguy

@Eva (again)

I’ve got to go to bed and then a day of work, so I won’t reply for a while, but I’m enjoying this discussion and hope it continues – though we may have to start narrowing our range of topics for brevity’s sake!

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on Tue May 24th 2011 at 19:14:11 eco

@Menelik Charles

“loooooooooool I’m afraid my statement has nothing whatsoever to do with my preference, prejudice or whatever you choose to call, my man!
The scientists who say such things are the very people Satoshi Kanazawa and Jarad Diamond relied upon in order to acquire degrees in at least two of their subjects!
It aint me speaking, therefore, sir, its the anatomical truth! Please, do try and undermine it with anything you consider to be evidence. I’ll wait!”

Actually, I’m the one who is waiting. You haven’t answered my question. You wrote: “black women are physically the most clearly defined females of all races of women.” I asked: “says who?” You answer was: “scientists”. Who are these scientists? Name them. I would love to read their studies. I’m very curious about two things: how do they define the races and how do they grade femininity.

You seem to be using a reasoning similar to Kanazawa’s, but you are degrading and uplifting different groups of women. Like Kanazawa, you are trying to rationalize certain preferences (and possibly prejudices) by finding ways to make them seem objective.

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on Tue May 24th 2011 at 19:35:50 Menelik Charles

eco said:

You seem to be using a reasoning similar to Kanazawa’s, but you are degrading and uplifting different groups of women. Like Kanazawa, you are trying to rationalize certain preferences (and possibly prejudices) by finding ways to make them seem objective.

Menelik says:

look, Einstein, if you want me to answer a question cease with the preemptive attacks!!!!!! Seriously, I’m a colored boy in the position of underdog not some stupid prof who has no evidence whatsoever to support what are or might be people’s racial preferences when it comes to certain races!

Facts can be mightily uncomfortable things to bare but insults to one’s intelligence and intent are very much worse!

I’ll dig up my evidence!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! In the meantime, please, be careful who you’re talking to!!!! You won’t seem so clever when you’re proven to be wrong so try humble as a default position, eh?

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on Tue May 24th 2011 at 19:41:09 Eva

Awryguy: Yeah, you’re definitely right. It is a bit of an emotional response to disregard all evolutionary biology musings, I guess it just grates my nerves the way charlatans have used it to put down other people. However, I’m sure there definitely has people worth reading– I like Carl Sagan a lot, so I’ll definitely look into those suggestions!

In response to your link, it is a valid point. However, notice that none of those things are what I would call “bad behavior” in the same way infidelity would be.

As for the blondes– it’s hard to tell, actually, since many women dye their hair. For a decent idea of how many people are naturally blond, think of the young adult white men you know. Men are less likely to have incentive to dye their hair, so they are a better way to gauge for actual natural hair color frequency. Even teenage girls dye their hair an awful lot.

I think I may have exaggerated a bit to imply that blond adults don’t exist… they’re just so rare and much darker than the stereotypical bottle-blond or blond child that it feels like the science behind that preference is dang questionable.

Hope you have a good day at work, nice chatting with you. Thanks for the recommendations!

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on Tue May 24th 2011 at 19:53:40 jas0nburns

menelik,

Eco was describing exactly what you are doing and always do. It wasn’t a personal attack, it was a very accurate description of how you operate.
The only “fact” apparent from your posts is that you have some issues that need to be addressed, and the sooner the better.

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on Tue May 24th 2011 at 19:55:45 Menelik Charles

what is not fact in anything i’ve posted? List them, please.

Thanks.

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on Tue May 24th 2011 at 20:05:41 eco

Oh yeah Menelik Charles, pretend to be the victim. Sure. Why not.

You are the one who is attacking. You are the one who wrote some really screwed up stuff about Asian people. I am merely questioning the “facts” you are sharing with us and suggesting you may have a bias you are not willing to admit.

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on Tue May 24th 2011 at 20:08:36 Menelik Charles

Look, Einstein,

all you have to do is present something I’ve said which wasn’t generally. Not stuff you don’t like but stuff which wasn’t in essence true.

Do that and I’m toast: simple!

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on Tue May 24th 2011 at 20:09:09 Menelik Charles

I meant generally true…

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on Tue May 24th 2011 at 20:55:00 eco

@Menelik Charles

“Look, Einstein, all you have to do is present something I’ve said which wasn’t generally true. Not stuff you don’t like but stuff which wasn’t in essence true.
Do that and I’m toast: simple!”

No. You made the claims. You need to prove them. If you cannot, then they are just your opinion and not “facts”. A few commenters have already tried to reason with you and pointed out some of your nonsensical statements. You dismissed their views, because you claimed that the statements are facts. Well, prove it!

You should really focus on finding scientific evidence to back up these two nuggets of wisdom:

“What IS most attractive i.e. feminine about Asian women are (aside from their eyes) their flat, negroid-like noses, and fullish, negroid-like lips! Aside from this they appear to be the 1st choice of repressed homosexuals or maybe even pedophiles.”

“Black women are physically the most clearly defined females of all races of women.”

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on Tue May 24th 2011 at 21:00:14 Menelik Charles

Wow,

trying to be clever again are we? No one has tried reason with me at all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They have disagreed with what I have said and suggested that I’ve racially attacked Asian females for stating a physical reality as it relates to them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LET ME SAY THIS BEFORE I GET BACK TO YOU (IN MY TIME, KID!) YOU ARE A FREAKIN GENIUS!

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on Tue May 24th 2011 at 21:07:01 Sir Daegus Vincent Arthur The Clement

Sadly, it seems as though black women will never be given a break in this world. What are they considered these days?:

Lazy, loud, arrogant, “sheboons”, monkeys, apes, ugly, unintelligent, secretly in love with white men, fat, bitches, testosterone laden, ugly nosed, buffoons who can’t speak English properly, etc.

Well, at least they have it better than black men. What are we these days?:

Lazy, loud, arrogant, ignorant, baboons, monkeys, apes, ugly, unintelligent, in love with white women, filled with self-hate, “anti-white”, rapists, criminals, bum, bogeymen, thugs, rappers, imbeciles, losers, deadbeat dads, short tempered, no morals, savages with big penises, a danger to white women, filthy, thieves, asswipes who run away after impregnating women, don’t work, abusive, buy/sell drugs, smoke weed, good at sports which is the only reason why we can succeed without white people, gluttons, ill-mannered, cheap, irresponsible, incorrigible, buffoons who cannot speak English properly, deviant/promiscuous, disturbed, secretly gay or bisexual, high jumpers, mindless chicken, watermelon and koolaid loving freaks that can’t control our urges for these things and so on.

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on Tue May 24th 2011 at 22:02:38 Obsidian

Notes On A (Psychology Today) Scandal

12:29 AM 5/17/2011 Tue

Hello Panama, Everybody,

Like you, I too got wind of London School of Economics evolutionary psychologist Satoshi Kanazawa’s recent blogpost on the Psychology Today website; in that I’m a Facebook follower of Paul Carrick Brunson (find me on Facebook at “Obsidian Files”), I saw his discussing the topic in my news feed. I’ve left a number of comments over there, which I will briefly reiterate here.

While everyone is getting their hackles raised over Kanazawa has said, please allow me to note the following:

1. He can’t be as “racist” as some have accused him of, because he made the point that Black Men were deemed the most sexually attractive of the races on the Male side, and explained why, which is a higher amount of testosterone. He further went on to say that Black Women weren’t seen as sexually attractive as other racial groups of Women because of this very same reason: that Black Women had higher aggregate levels of testosterone.

2. If Kanazawa had wrote instead an article talking about how short(er) Men were deemed as less sexually attractive in relation to taller Men, or if he had wrote a piece detailing the fact that Asian Men in aggregate weren’t seen as sexually attractive as other groups of Men in the USA, I have the sneaking suspicion we wouldn’t be discussing it right now, right here – one thing’s for sure, Sistas themselves wouldn’t be all that hot and bother by it. I say this in response to those who wish to palm off their emotive pissosity in response to their raw nerve getting stomped on by Kanazawa and couch it instead in the highbrow language of science, basically accusing Kanazawa of being a crank scientist at best. Sure, his methology may indeed be flawed, but does it take logitudinal, peer reviewed studies in order to know that Black Women aren’t viewed as physically attractive as other groups of Women in the USA? Which leads me to the next point:

3. Just last month here at VSB, and just last week on PCB’s FB page, rousing discussions took place about short guys – and Sistas, in both venues, made their views known that in no uncertain terms, they have a God-given right to discriminate on the basis of height, fullstop. Funny then, how the very same cohort of human beings suddenly get their backs up when their oxen gets gored. Dang what the volumimous studies, around the world and throughout time, has to say about the myriad ways shorter Men are discriminated agbainst, all up and down the chain, virtually from birth – uh-uh. Sistas, in aggregate, simply do not care. Not their problem if the guys can’t, ahem, measure up. And Asian guys? What Asian guys? To the vast majority of Sistas, they might as well be Invisible Men.

I bring all this up to blunt notions that Sistas in our time have it so very hard. Without question, the aforementioned two cohorts of Men have it far and away harder out there on the open and deregulated SMP (sexual marketplace), and worse, unlike Sistas, they don’t have a virtual special interest lobbying group being vociferous and fighting on their behalf in just about every quarter worth the mention. Yet, somehow, someway, short guys and Asian guys manage to get on with the business of living – which can and often does mean, that not only will it be unfair, but that you will have to meet it on its terms.

The truth of the matter is, that we all know what Kanazawa said to be true in aggregate, and the biggest ones to know this, are Black Women themselves – how much money is spent yearly on hairweaves and extensions, skin lightening creams and so on? Last time I checked, according to the Wall Street Journal, the number totalled in the BILLIONS of dollars per year. a bigger confession of such truths, is hard to find, and shatters the notion that “beauty is in the eye of the beholder” – NO, it’s NOT, and we have objective evidence of this in the form of myriad scientific studies and surveys, just like we have myriad studies proving that Women would, if they could choose it, prefer a 6-foot plus tall excon, to a Robert Reich-sized neurosurgeon. Again, the Robert Reich’s of the world don’t have a shoulder to collective cry into; they learn that they either learn to get on with the business of living, or they wind up living out their days in quiet desperation.

At this point in American life, where the country’s two most powerful, well known and dare I say popular Women are themselves Black – First Lady Michelle Obama and powerhouse media personality Oprah Winfrey – the notions by some that Black Women as a group are somehow being targetted by a vast anti-Sista Conspiracy starts to get a bit tired. Black Women as a group, are the hands down winners of the Civil Rights AND Women’s Movements, and today enjoy unparalled legal, social, educational and economic success – success that I, for one, think is the envy of the World.

Moreover, Black Women cannot keep using “the media” as the go-to whipping boy when it is they themselves who work in the media and who push these Black Women themes – who wrote “Bitch is The New Black”? Who wrote the screenplay for “Something New”? Who has a show for longer than many reader this has been alive, focusing on the lives of Black Women, almost nonstop? Who? To ask the question, is to answer it.

Let me end here by saying this: personally, I’m a lover of Women in general and Sistas in particular – but that doesn’t mean that I will coddle them either. The fact of the matter is, that for whatever reason, Sistas do indeed have a strong and abiding reputation for being mannish, loud, aggressive, and for many Men, regardless of color, its an A1 boner killer. If it makes the Sistahood feel any better, the increasing chorus of discontent from their White sisters says that they are now beginning to feel the burn as their Men begin to vote with their feet and start “going ghost”. It is my view that while Sistas can’t, or shouldn’t, change their skintone or hair texture, they CAN change their attitudes and approach to things. Simply put, just as shorter Men have to work harder at Studied Charisma and Social Dominance in order to compensate for his lack of height with regard to the ladies, Sistas in aggregate will also have to work harder to cultivate those traits Men in aggregate find most sexually appealing – like submissiveness, femininity, taking the bass outta their voices and stop acting so mannish and loud, smiling more, and so forth. Many reading this will get quite defensive in reading this, but said positions only strengthen my case, not weakens it. In the end, Sistas, and Sistas alone, have the power to do something about their otherwise fairly disadvantageous SMP position.

The Choice, is Theirs.

Now adjourn your asses…

The Obsidian’s iPod is now playing: “Alone”, by Joe

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on Tue May 24th 2011 at 23:25:50 Mira

Who is this Kanazawa guy anyway? Why would I care about what he says? Right.

That being said, though, it seems like a bad trolling attempt in a style of an inexperienced blogger who wants to get hits, fast.

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on Tue May 24th 2011 at 23:31:14 Student of the World

I’m not offended by your position. I just find it insipidly stupid.

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on Tue May 24th 2011 at 23:44:29 Eva

Obsidian,

Based on what I’ve seen, black women are being constantly talked about by people who aren’t black women in this way. Mostly in that they are still selective about their mates, despite being debased and undervalued. Seriously, not a month goes by where I don’t see a publication awkwardly implying that black women should simply lower their standards, and to have an attitude shift.

A black woman deserves to choose what she wants, and to pursue it, no matter who wants to tell them they should just settle and be ~nicer~ and ~quieter~ and other claptrap. Patronizingly telling women to be more “feminine” (see: just look good, don’t assert yourself, don’t speak too loud, and always be happy you’re in your place!) is just all sorts of sexist failure.

Also, there is no overwhelming cultural context and history that dehumanizes shorter men in the way that black americans/women have been. Height discrimination is problematic, but it is a false comparison.

And furthermore ending your thought with “said positions only strengthen my case, not weakens it” is just bad rhetoric and makes it impossible for somebody to disagree unselfconsciously. It is unfair to provoke someone and tell them that if they respond that just means the aggressor is all the more justified.

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on Tue May 24th 2011 at 23:59:57 Ashley

Obsidian,

“The truth of the matter is, that we all know what Kanazawa said to be true in aggregate, and the biggest ones to know this, are Black Women themselves”

What??? I think someone needs to admit that they have been brainwashed. Black women in aggregate are not **unattractive**. Ideas about beauty are not “objective ,” they are learned. If something can be learned, it can be unlearned and/or relearned. Western culture has systematic ally diminished the value and dignity of Black women…Every parent of a brown girl knows how creative and diligent we must be to counter the social brainwashing and instill a sense of beauty, value and dignity in our daughters. We should not be the only ones doing that. ALL PARENTS of all children should be re-teachin g their sons and daughters to appreciate beauty in all of its diverse human expression s.

I live in the U.S., in Los Angeles. The Los Angeles Times Magazine’s February issue features a sleek photo spread on the “50 Most Beautiful Women in Film” How many of them do you think are Black? Why didn’t the editors care if my brown daughter sees herself there?

http://kathleencross.com/SkinDeep/2011/04/09/the-darker-the-berry-the-more-invisible/

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 00:28:45 Gen

Eva and Ashley, you may have noticed that most regular posters here skip over Obsidian’s posts, and you’ll soon see why if you haven’t already.

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 00:38:56 chic noir

If you are the parent of a Yound Black Female, it’s very important that you attempt monitor her exposure to pop culture. In the formative yers it’s also important that you buy dolls, books etc… with children and women who look like her.

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 01:08:22 saadiyah

Thank you Ashley and chic noir for your thoughtful comments. I had a hard time reading many of the comments that came before. You’re both right that young Black girls need a lot of extra attention in developing a positive self image. The assault against Black females is coming from all sides. Sadly other Black men and women are among the guilty too.

It would be wonderful if more men and women of all races came to Black women’s defense when something like this “study” gets published. It irks me that some people who wouldn’t had made a peep about this article come out the woodwork only when their group is attacked in the defense of Black women. Sigh.

I guess it’s understandable since Black women are firmly on the bottom of the race/sex hierarchy. Other groups have to step on Black women’s backs lest they fall to the bottom themselves.

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 01:44:57 The Cynic

@Gen

Are they new here? I peeped Obsidian’s blog post of a comment and instantly said… NOPE! Today is not the day!

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 01:52:36 e-dub

Stupid is as stupid does

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 02:37:33 chic noir

Your welcome saadiyah.

I guess it’s understandable since Black women are firmly on the bottom of the race/sex hierarchy

Be careful about taking in what others think of you or this will become your reality. Don’t let a pack of bitter internet nerds destroy your sense of self.

I always tell blk women to go to those sites that celebrate you. That’s why I like the vogue Italia site so much. That woe is me to be a blk woman is pure BS. So we have it a little harder than others, I great great great grandmothers had it 10X harder. Look at our first lady for God sakes… Look at Oprah and other blk women who’ve “made it”.

When I’m out and about, I never have problems attracting men. Even those who I suspect would tell their buddies that they don’t go for Carmel colored blk women.

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 02:38:06 chic noir

teh cynic

Today is not the day!

haha

me too 🙂

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 02:43:50 brothawolf

*Reads Obsidian’s comment, shakes his head, and goes “tisk, tisk, tisk.*

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 03:53:06 temple

tiny dancer is a little man with a Napoleon Complex (note his obsession w/short men). Well he has several obsessions: ALL black women, ANY black woman who is interested in, dating, sleeping with, married to, a white man; WHITE MEN, white men who don’t agree with his assertions that black men, more than any woman, deserve to be taken care of by white men (according to him black men lack the intelligence to be successfully educated & if, by some miracle, they do finish college, they cannot financially succeed to the level of whites & black women). According to him, black men should be treated by the U.S. government as children & not MEN.

Oh yeah, he also believes that black men who abandon their children are revolutionaries who are “voting with their feet.” Never-mind that most of the guys he speaks for haven’t got a clue as to how to spell “vote” & attempting to spell “revolutionary” would leave them brain dead.

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 04:54:34 Mel

Kanazawa has been referred to by his peers as “the great idiot of social science.”

Here are some of Kanazawa’s greatest hits:

March 2011, Kanazawa wrote an article titled, ‘Are All Women Essentially Prostitutes?’ The article reads, “high-class prostitutes like Allie and Maggie have more in common with college professors, corporate executives, or poets than with the more affordable and visible members of their profession…[p]rostitution is evolutionarily familiar, because mating is evolutionarily familiar and prostitutes (at least the classy ones) are no different from other women, whom men also have to pay – not in cash payments but in dinners and movies, gifts, flowers, chocolates, and motor oil…”[9]

Imagine that, on September 11, 2001, when the Twin Towers came down, the President of the United States was not George W. Bush, but Ann Coulter. What would have happened then? On September 12, President Coulter would have ordered the US military forces to drop 35 nuclear bombs throughout the Middle East, killing all of our actual and potential enemy combatants, and their wives and children.

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 06:17:50 Millie

This little man need to find something better to do.
He probaly recently was ignore by a beautiful black women. I have friends that are of japanese descent,and are flabergasted by this little man.

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 06:22:42 serpentus

Satoshi Kanazawa looks like he’s never been laid.

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 06:24:59 serpentus

“Kanazawa’s chart of physical attractiveness is based on “women” from ages 12 to 26.”

Well, women are at their peak of physical attractiveness when they are young. I’m just creeped out about him ranking beauty in minors…that’s kinda sick.

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 06:39:18 Franklin

@ Serpentus

Must…not comment…on the blind eye Japan constantly turns towards…animated…pedophilia…in the name of…”artistic freedom”!

(Or the shops that sell used and soiled schoolgirl panties.)

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 06:48:38 Millie

You may not be a racist,but you do have the traits.
How can you use the sociology,psychology,analytic process to come to the conclusion regarding black females. You have some issues yourself. Who gave you the power to RESEARCH black women? You need to have your vision,and “psycho”cological profile checked/analyised. Who died,and gave you the right to judge black women/african/african american women/females? Who do you think you are? You were rejected by a black/african/american female,and you are using your pathetic degree to justify your research? POPPY COCK!!!!!!

Check it out,Oprah,Dr. Maya Angelo,Beyonce,Halle Berry,Vivica Fox,Queen Latifah,Loretta Divine,Erikah Badu,Gail King,Robin(Good Morning America),Whoopi Goldberg,Sherri Shepard,Wendy Williams,Vanessa Williams,Aretha Franklin,Jennifer Hudson,Etta James.
I could go on.and,on.

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 06:53:20 WarrenAZ

@Obsidian

I don’t buy the “I love black women…..but” position. Withholding affection or not “coddling” black women means you’ve given yourself a level of authority that you don’t have. In other words making BM or even men in general a catalyst in for the happiness of black women. Bad Idea.

Your “what black women need to do” approach is based on what you consider a priority, not what needs to happen. The things you listed come from having a bad quality of life that manifests itself in action. So based on your reasoning the real “cure” for black women would not be in how they conduct themselves but a focus on health, finance, and mental stability. In other words achieving a better quality of life, something that doesn’t require male validation-men can’t make you healthier, wealthier, mentality stable.

Black Women don’t have to accept their lot or status “like a short man”, that would be stupid. Black Women need to see the value in themselves physically and socially. What short men do and face is their own business and choice. One concept that is never proven to be effective is drawing parallels of privilege across gender, racial, and socioeconomic lines, it creates a circular debates.

I agree that there is no Conspiracy against Black Women. But there is profit in making a critique of their short comings an American past time.

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 06:56:22 The Cynic

For a long time I have noticed that on average the black women on American television are not as good looking as the white women. There is a beauty gap that you do not see on the streets.

I used to watch A LOT of television when I was growing up and I have never noticed this “beauty gap.” The Black actresses I have seen in tv/movies either look good or normal.

Tisha Campbell-(Martin/My Wife & Kids)
Phylicia Rashad(Cosby Show)
Kellita Smith(Bernie Mac Show)
Holly Robinson(Hangin’ With Mr.Cooper)
Moesha & Shar Jackson(Moesha)
Raven Symone(Cosby show/ That’s So Raven etc.)
Wendy Raquel Robinson & Terri J. Vaughn(Steve Harvey)
Tichina Arnold(Martin/Everybody Hates Chris)
Rutina Wesley(True Blood)
Sanaa Lathan(Nip/Tuck)
Regina King(a bunch of stuff)
Kerry Washington(NYPD Blue/Law & Order/etc.)

That is what I have noticed on television. The only ugly or plain Black women I really see on the tv like that are on trashy talk shows like Maury or Divorce Court. Those are real women and the White girls on talk shows are also on the average-ugly range…

Again, I have read about racism in the fashion industry. I’m not into fashion, but many of the Afro-descent models I do know of tend to be on the Euro side(Tyra, Emmanuel de Paula, Noemie Lenoir). I have noticed the same thing when it comes to male models of Afro-descent in Aeropastle/ Abercrombie/American Eagle ads. I see the darkskin “Black” guy with Euro facial features or mixed boys in their advertisements in the mall/websites.

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 06:57:09 WarrenAZ

@Obsidian

I don’t buy the “I love black women…..but” position. Withholding affection or not “coddling” black women means you’ve given yourself a level of authority that you don’t have. In other words making BM or even men in general a catalyst in for the happiness of black women. Bad Idea.

Your “what black women need to do” approach is based on what you consider a priority, not what needs to happen. The things you listed come from having a bad quality of life that manifests itself in action. So based on your reasoning the real “cure” for black women would not be in how they conduct themselves but a focus on health, finance, and mental stability. In other words achieving a better quality of life, something that doesn’t require male validation-men can’t make you healthier, wealthier, mentality stable.

Black Women don’t have to accept their lot or status “like a short man”, that would be stupid. Black Women need to see the value in themselves physically and socially. What short men do and face is their own business and choice. One concept that is never proven to be effective is drawing parallels of privilege across gender, racial, and socioeconomic lines, it creates a circular debates.

I agree that there is no Conspiracy against Black Women and that Black Women benefited from social movements. Everything else is a question of convenience excuses vs practical application.

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 06:59:45 WarrenAZ

How did i end up with a double post? Oh shoot.

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 07:00:17 Chuck

Does anyone care to actually address the higher rates of testosterone among black women, on average?

Also attacking Kanawaza for being a virgin is a non sequitor and shows that you don’t have a valid argument.

And to Menelik Charles, if you point out that Asian men are unattractive you are making the same argument as Kanawaza only using another group.

One more. Black men go outside of their race more than black women do. A lot more. Deal.

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 07:13:34 serpentus

Can someone please show a study where it shows that black women have higher testosterone levels?

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 07:14:46 Menelik Charles

Bro Obsidian said:

Sistas do indeed have a strong and abiding reputation for being mannish, loud, aggressive, and for many Men, regardless of color, its an A1 boner killer. It is my view that while Sistas can’t, or shouldn’t, change their skintone or hair texture, they CAN change their attitudes and approach to things.

Simply put, Sistas in aggregate will also have to work harder to cultivate those traits Men in aggregate find most sexually appealing – like submissiveness, femininity, taking the bass outta their voices and stop acting so mannish and loud, smiling more, and so forth.

Many reading this will get quite defensive in reading this, but said positions only strengthen my case, not weakens it.

Menelik says:

and attitude, lack of femininity, and an almost pathological need to determine what Black men think and say, are the ONLY areas in which Black women can be deemed to be less attractive than women of other races.

Black men merely making Black women aware of these observable facts are frequently subjected to vicious ad hominem attacks by simply breaking ranks, and speaking truth to the matriarchal order.

But they can’t handle the truth…

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 07:15:32 serpentus

“(Or the shops that sell used and soiled schoolgirl panties.)”

Don’t tell me Japan is that screwed up. I thought the rest of the world was bad enough.

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 07:27:22 serpentus

One of the reasons black women are seen as less attractive is that black women tend to be more picky when it comes to choosing men.

Since black women have to deal with BS, with many living in poverty, they demand men with certain traits–confidence, aggressiveness, etc…

A poor man with confidence will win a woman over a middle-class man who is shy.

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 07:46:13 Millie

The most beautiful black female.

The FIRST LADY, Michelle Obama.

THIS LADY IS ABSOLUTELY BEAUTIFUL!!!

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 07:49:34 serpentus

Beauty is objective. Period.

But, race doesn’t matter when it comes to beauty.

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 07:50:42 serpentus

There are loads of black women hotter than Michelle Obama.

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 07:59:40 serpentus

SW6,

Women ARE at the peak of their physical attractivness when they are young. What’s not to get? That’s just reality.

You saying you’d rather date a 70-year-old grandma over a 20-year-old?

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 08:08:59 The Cynic

@Chuck
Does anyone care to actually address the higher rates of testosterone among black women, on average?

Not really. HDB is boring and lame to me. I guess I’ll say a little about it for the hell of it though…

Testosterone lvls are influenced by nature and nurture. In fact, I remember reading about a study where men who were taken out of violent neighborhoods, while transferring to safer ones, had their T lvls drop significantly just by a change in environment. I’m too lazy to look for the study myself, so you can have fun finding it if you plz.

Most of the studies I am going to link only include men, but they didn’t find any significant differences in testosterone across “races.”

“We conducted longitudinal analyses (Generalized Estimating Equation) of the associations of age, body mass index (BMI), and waist circumference with total and free testosterone and sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) concentrations during an 8-year period and compared these hormonal factors between black (n = 483) and white (n = 695) male participants of the Coronary Artery Risk Development in Young Adults (CARDIA) Study.”

“After adjustment for age and BMI, total testosterone was higher in blacks (0.21 ng/ml; P = 0.028) than whites, an approximately 3% difference. However, after further adjustment for waist circumference, there was no black-white difference (0.05 ng/ml; P = 0.62).”(Gapster et al)
http://cebp.aacrjournals.org/content/11/10/1041.short

“A large biracial cross-section of 1038 healthy children aged 6-18 yr with 519 blacks, 519 whites, 678 males, and 360 females was evaluated for Tanner stage and serum levels of androstenedione, dehydroepiandrosterone-sulfate, estradiol, progesterone, and testosterone.”

“The hormones dehydroepiandrosterone-sulfate, progesterone, and testosterone did not exhibit any racial differences.”(R J Richards et al)
http://cebp.aacrjournals.org/content/11/10/1041.short

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 08:13:08 The Cynic

@Chuck
“From June 1996 through July 1998, we evaluated 453 men (189 African-American and 264 white men)”

“There was no statistical difference in serum testosterone levels based on biopsy result or race.

Conclusions. Although several studies have suggested that African-American men have higher serum testosterone levels than white men, these differences were noted only in men 40 years of age or younger. As was noted in our study, after age 40, African-American and white men have comparable serum testosterone levels. In addition, although prostate growth is androgen dependent, we found no difference in serum testosterone levels in men with and without prostate cancer.”(Kubrict III et al)
http://www.goldjournal.net/article/S0090-4295(99)00290-3/abstract

“Participants included black, Hispanic, or white individuals, aged 30–79 yr, competent to sign informed consent and literate in English/Spanish. Of 2301 men recruited, 1899 provided blood samples (538 black, 651 Hispanic, 710 white).”

“Results: With or without adjustment for covariates, there were no significant differences in testosterone, bioavailable testosterone, or SHBG levels by race/ethnicity. ”

“Because there are no racial/ethnic differences in testosterone levels, normative ranges need not be adjusted by race/ethnicity for androgen deficiency diagnosis for men aged 30–79 yr. Further investigation is needed to determine whether differences in DHT levels and DHT to testosterone ratio can help explain racial/ethnic variations in prostate cancer incidence, body composition, and bone mass.”(Litman et al)
http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/91/11/4326.abstract

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 08:25:38 Franklin

@ Serpentus

Don’t tell me Japan is that screwed up. I thought the rest of the world was bad enough.

No, I’m being serious. Of course shops aren’t as blatant as the vending machines near arcades, but they’re still well known by the public. Especially since it’s a shop in Akihabara.

jzXJkXxwKHY

(Hope I did that code right…)

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 08:25:51 The Cynic

@Chuck
“The Swiss researchers examined the testosterone levels of 171 soccer players in six different countries after steroids were deliberately added to their urine samples. The scientists studied the steroid profiles of 57 Africans, 32 Asians, 50 Caucasians and 32 Hispanics using a chemical analysis.”

“Based on the genetic variations, the Swiss said the testosterone thresholds were actually 5.8-to-1 for Hispanics, 5.7 for Caucasians, 5.6 for Africans and 3.8 for Asians.”
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/olympics/2009-03-11-testosterone-tests_N.htm

“This report gives the results of assays of circulating steroid hormone levels in white and black college students in Los Angeles, CA. Mean testosterone levels in blacks were 19% higher than in whites, and free testosterone levels were 21% higher. Both these differences were statistically significant. Adjustment by analysis of covariance for time of sampling, age, weight, alcohol use, cigarette smoking, and use of prescription drugs somewhat reduced the differences. After these adjustments were made, blacks had a 15% higher testosterone level and a 13% higher free testosterone level. A 15% difference in circulating testosterone levels could readily explain a twofold difference in prostate cancer risk.”
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3455741

A lot of those studies were based on men alone, but I don’t think it matters. Either way, I don’t understand why I need testosterone lvls or BMI to tell me what MY EYES can. If Black women had such higher testosterone lvls, why is it that they generally have the most feminine bodies in the US? I think ppl can easily believe bw are so masculine bc of the attitude Sapphire stereotype. What they fail to realize is that physical aggression is only recognized as a masc trait, verbal/emotional aggression is not.

Also, when Satoshi where is the study that says Africans have higher testosterone levels? I’ve noticed a lot of HDBers always want to downplay the huge amnt of genetic diversity w/in that continent alone while making Africans(“blacks”) appear to be a monolith. So dumb. Either way, I don’t see how this HDB stuff is conducive to my life. Those questions I just asked were rhetorical. I’m done discussing these types of HDB things.

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 08:26:44 Franklin

And of course I didn’t…

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 08:31:34 The Cynic

@SW6

No, I am not missing the point. I listed some “black & “white” shows and I thought about listing more “white” tv series, but I didn’t feel like it. I am talking about ALL television. The only place I see ugly black women like that are trashy talk shows. On predominantly white television cast I don’t see what Abagond is talking about. The black actresses usually look either normal or pretty. I was thinking about doing a ugly/plain white actress list in the morning bc that is another thing I don’t see. All of the white women on tv DO NOT look pretty

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 08:55:11 Menelik Charles

Yeah,

and what masculine features do Black women possess as a consequence of allegedly possessing greater testosterone levels than women of other races?

Thin lips (seen as a masculine trait)? Square, box-like hips (seen as a masculine trait)? Short legs in relation to the rest of their bodies (seen as a masculine trait)? Flat bottoms (seen as a masculine trait)?

Also,

do Black women walk or dance with less rhythm and grace than women of other races? Are they less athletic/fit than women of other races?

Black women are so far ahead in the physical female stakes that my merely comparing them to other races of women is treated on here as “bashing” those women!

I’ve done no such thing!

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 09:32:56 Eurasian Sensation

@ Menelik:

“They have disagreed with what I have said and suggested that I’ve racially attacked Asian females for stating a physical reality as it relates to them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! “

You are not “stating a physical reality”, you are stating your interpretation of reality.

“The simple FACTS are that Black women have the most obvious female characteristics of ALL races of women and Asian woman (with their flat butts, boyish hips and tiny boobs) have the least!

What IS most attractive i.e. feminine about Asian women are (aside from their eyes) their flat, negroid-like noses, and fullish, negroid-like lips! Aside from this they appear to be the 1st choice of repressed homosexuals or maybe even pedophiles.”

As you are a guy who seems to have a modicum of intelligence, I can’t see why you can’t distinguish between your opinion and objective reality. Especially when Abagond’s post is all about a scientist (Kanazawa) who can’t distinguish between objective reality and his opinion of black women.

I know I’ve said this to you before, since I remember you leaving the same negative comments about Asian women on Y’s blog – you obviously think your opinion about Asians is really clever because you keep repeating it as if it is some genius work of logic.

But what you say about Asian women is no more valid than what Kanazawa said about black women.

If you think black women are the epitome of female beauty, that’s great. I happen to think they are pretty great too. But you disparaging women of other races doesn’t make black women any greater.

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 09:37:19 sam

“Kanazawa’s chart of physical attractiveness is based on “women” from ages 12 to 26.”

Is this true? I mean, if this guy thinks that teenage girls are women, then well…

For me a woman is a woman, perhaps over 20 at least, but not 12 yr old!!!!! That is a child. 16 is a teenager. Goddamn!

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 09:44:46 Menelik Charles

Eurasian Sensation said:

you obviously think your opinion about Asian (women) is really clever because you keep repeating it as if it is some genius work of logic.

But what you say about Asian women is no more valid than what Kanazawa said about black women.

Menelik asks:

what EXACTLY have I said about Asian women’s general physical appearance which is untrue?

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 09:57:48 Kyou

“(Or the shops that sell used and soiled schoolgirl panties.)”

People still believe in that over drawn out myth? I’ve lived there for over 6 years and I don’t know what everyone is talking about. People still act like it’s “pedo-ville” in Japan when they have lower rates of rape and other crimes than the U.S. And yes child molestation IS a crime in Japan.

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 10:00:49 Eurasian Sensation

@ Menelik:

“what EXACTLY have I said about Asian women’s general physical appearance which is untrue?”

Really, Menelik? Really?

I shall quote again in case you missed it the first time:

“The simple FACTS are that Black women have the most obvious female characteristics of ALL races of women and Asian woman (with their flat butts, boyish hips and tiny boobs) have the least!”

FACTS? I see. I could just as easily argue that Asian women’s lack of body hair, and smaller and more delicate features make them the most feminine. But I won’t, because there is no objective cross-cultural definition of what makes someone feminine. Get it? That’s what this post is all about.

“Aside from this they appear to be the 1st choice of repressed homosexuals or maybe even pedophiles.”

How many pedophiles and repressed homosexuals did you poll to arrive at this conclusion?

Strangely enough, Asian women are also the 1st choice of Asian men. Asian men don’t seem to have a problem with Asian women’s so-called lack of femininity.

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 10:03:31 Kyou

Franklin,

Rating how many Japanese men are perverts for used underwear is like rating how many people in the U.S. have an obesity fetish.

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 10:11:25 Kyou

My response to the Kanazawa article is just that, I treat like an article, not actual fact. He uses preference and try to turn it into fact. Just like is colleges said, “the great idiot of psychology” indeed.

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 10:46:15 Menelik Charles

Menelik said:

what EXACTLY have I said about Asian women’s general physical appearance which is untrue?

Eurasian Sensation replied:

really, Menelik? Really?

I shall quote again in case you missed it the first time:

“The simple FACTS are that Black women have the most obvious female characteristics of ALL races of women and Asian woman (with their flat butts, boyish hips and tiny boobs) have the least!”

FACTS? I see. I could just as easily argue that Asian women’s lack of body hair, and smaller and more delicate features make them the most feminine. But I won’t, because there is no objective cross-cultural definition of what makes someone feminine. Get it? That’s what this post is all about.

Menelik replies:

quite aside from NOT answering my question, your claim that Asian women have more “delicate” (facial) features than other races of women is not something I’d argue against because it is observably true!

But thus far your response to my question just seems to be outrage and nothing else.

Menelik said:

aside from this they appear to be the 1st choice of repressed homosexuals or maybe even pedophiles.

Eurasian Sensation asked:

how many pedophiles and repressed homosexuals did you poll to arrive at this conclusion?

Menelik replies:

loooool What if I could actually answer that question, mate? Anyway, do you realise that Asian countries are the no 1 sex tourist destinations for white males? Are you not aware of how common it is for ‘heterosexual’ white men to engage in sexual activities with so-called ‘Ladyboys’? And what of white males in the 40s, 50s, and 60s visiting the region for the sole purpose of engaging in sex with very young girls and boys?

You need to think through your question a little more carefully before posing them, my friend!

Eurasian Sensation said:

strangely enough, Asian women are also the 1st choice of Asian men. Asian men don’t seem to have a problem with Asian women’s so-called lack of femininity.

Menelik replies:

unquestionably true….in places like China, Japan and Vietnam lol. But what if I were to suggest that Asian women in the US and UK appear to have a sever problem with Asian men’s “lack” of masculinity?

Just saying, my friend.

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 11:23:12 Millie

WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE?” LITTLE PERSON”?

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 14:00:38 Kenya

Black women have a higher rate of estrogen as well(google it, I can’t be bothered).

People want to harp on the testoterone thing because it’s convenient to thier belief.
I can look at someone and find them beautiful but I accept if others don’t agree.
My taste is very strange anyway.

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 14:09:15 Kenya

Menelik, what you find feminine (and please correct me if I am wrong) and what someone else does is a matter of opinion.
Some people like frailness in women, like small breasts, small features and an overall ‘smallness’ of body.

I do not find it feminine but rather infantile personally.

The person who wrote the article was staing his opinion and probably the opinion of many others. But, then many others disagree with him.

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 14:34:58 The Cynic

@SW6

How many times do I have to tell you their is nothing wrong with my reading comprehension? I get what Abagond is saying and I disagree with it. Period. The average black actress on tv DOES NOT look like Whoopi Goldberg. The average white actress does not look like Angelina Jolie. I don’t see this “beauty gap”

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 14:40:50 Eurasian Sensation

Menelik, I’m not sure why I’m so optimistic as to think that you are opposed to dumb racist stereotypes.

Clearly, you are only opposed to dumb racist stereotypes about black people.

When they are about Asians, you clearly think dumb racist stereotypes are awesome.

Now that we’ve cleared that up, I feel content to move on.

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 14:48:12 Y

I don’t think the correct response to this guy it to

1. paint all Asians with a broad brush

or

2. Degrade/Disrespect/Caricature the physical features of Asians or other races of people

Its not right and it is no difference than a non-black person degrading the features/beauty of black people. Obviously Asian ladies are found attractive by many regardless of what certain people think of their bodies/features

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 14:53:29 Menelik Charles

@ Eurasian Sensation,

nice polite ad hominems, I appreciate that.

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 14:58:23 Menelik Charles

no race has been degraded, disrespected or caricatured by me: not a single one!!!!!

What I wrote is observable to the naked eye, and an established physical fact. If people don’t like the context in which I’ve said what I said then perhaps they would be kind enough to say so.

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 15:02:04 Awryguy

These comments are getting hilariously out of hand. Menelik, I’ve got to hand it to you. I don’t know if it was deliberate trolling or this is just a normal social interaction for you, but you’ve managed to keep people interested all this time without saying much of anything since your original post.

Before I go on, something desperately needs cleared up:

the most obvious female characteristics…

…are lack of penis and presence of vagina. Anything else is, as they say, secondary.

And now! As a service to everyone – Menelik most of all, although he may not come to terms with this for a while – I read and re-read Menelik Charles‘s comments until I grasped his meaning and pathology.

Then I re-wrote them in a comprehensible form.

What Menelik Charles Meant To Say

Black women’s secondary sex characteristics are the most obvious among all the races. That makes them the most feminine, and therefore the most attractive because they’re the least like dudes. They’re so hot with their full lips, flat noses, dark skin and round booties – features like that could only describe a woman!

But Asian women? Gross! They have little boy bodies. Mostly gays and pedophiles are into that, so obviously I find them the least attractive. Because I’m not gay. Also, Asian men lack masculinity and some of them are ladyboys! Asian women are boyish and Asian men are girlish, and such androgyny could never be sexy: that’s why there are so few Asians and David Bowie is a virgin.

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 15:04:13 Awryguy

@Menelik Charles

nice polite ad hominems, I appreciate that.

Bahaha then I bet you loved my last post.

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 15:14:06 Menelik Charles

@ Awryguy

It was nicely “caricatured” lol

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 15:22:12 Awryguy

@Menelik

Glad you saw the humour.

One last wholly friendly tip – a little formatting would make your posts easier to read. Especially when there are replies to replies and quotes within quotes.

For anyone who doesn’t know, this is how you italicize or embolden text. Just use the triangle brackets instead of these ones ( ).

(i)blah blah blah(/i)

(b)blah blah blah(/b)

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 15:35:01 King

“I get what Abagond is saying and I disagree with it. Period. The average black actress on tv DOES NOT look like Whoopi Goldberg. The average white actress does not look like Angelina Jolie. I don’t see this “beauty gap”

Perhaps it would be helpful for someone to actually list the leading Black and White actresses that are on T.V. currently, in 2011. Then the reality could more easily be discerned from the assumption?

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 15:36:25 jas0nburns

@Awryguy

LOL! nice

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 15:38:58 Menelik Charles

I don’t get it. Explain.

Thanks.

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 15:51:07 The Cynic

@King

Why don’t you take a crack at it. Give me a list of some of the white & black actresses on tv in the main cast(don’t understand why they would have to be leading). And while your doing that keep in mind Black Americans are only 13% of the population.

Everybody else can tell you whether these actresses are attractive or not

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 15:52:44 Awryguy

@Menelik

You don’t get the formatting thing, or you don’t get my caricature of your comments? I can find another way to explain how to italicize and why it’s important; but as for the longer post, comedy is ruined when you explain it.

Also, it’s nigh on the witching hour, which means it’s time for me to grab my electric mosquito racket and a bag of pistachios and get to bed.

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 16:04:27 Menelik Charles

@ Awryguy,

you would never believe it but I’m actually dyslexic (I also spent crucial years out of school due to illness) so any advice you give me as re my grammar etc I would take it and learn it by rote.

So do take a piece of my work and see what you can do!

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 16:13:28 King

@ Cynic

“Why don’t you take a crack at it.”

I’m a bad choice because I don’t watch television, and I have no idea who’s on it. It would take me a lot more time to go through cast lists, and seek out the head shots of the respective actresses. I was hoping that someone else might have more knowledge on the subject, or know of a resource that could be used.

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 16:18:11 The Cynic

@King

Did you not read Abagond’s comment? He said the black women on television are uglier than the white women on average. What does that have to do with the leading ladies on contemporary tv shows? Roseann was a leading white women on tv. Is her representation helping your point? And why do these shows have to be brand spankin new? Have you ever heard of a re-run? We are talking about the representation we do get here.

If black ppl are not being represented proportionately to their share population & accurately in the media, then it’s black ppl’s and not whites fault. If whites produce a tv show, own a network, design a fashion line, and own the music label then they should have every right to put forth whatever images they want. It is not their job to cater to blacks and make sure their self-esteem is okay.

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 16:30:24 Awryguy

@Menelik

I really just meant you should put long quotes in italics. I don’t know how to teach grammar, just…

Imagine your words are going to be in a book, not on the internet. DON’T USE ALL CAPS for emphasis, or use MORE than ONE exclamation mark!!!!!!! When I read a sentence like that out loud in my head, I hear a guy totally losing his sh*t. It makes people less likely to take you seriously.

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 16:36:41 Menelik Charles

@ Awryguy,

I totally take your point but I’ve no idea how italicize my stuff on here because I’m no too computer literate. I’ll wait until my brother pops round (works at BT) and he’ll put me right on that score.

Thanks for the advice.

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 16:39:26 King

I don’t know if Abagonds point is true or not. I don’t watch television anymore. I think that I was focusing on leading women only because they are more likely to be presented as full, breathing, characters. I’m not sure that smaller and underdeveloped roles (even if they were numerous) could achieve parity with leading roles, in influencing public perceptions.

As for re-runs, they do tend to be scheduled during low viewing hours, and therefore represent lower ratings in general. However, if you look at my post again, you will see that I only mentioned that the shows had to be on in 2011. I didn’t say that they had to have debuted in 2011, and there is a difference.

As for White people owning T.V. networks, etc. well… it gets complicated these days. The networks are all owned by very large worldwide corporation with many stockholders. But, yes, most of the shot callers are still White.

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 17:02:33 Awryguy

@Cynic, King and Abagond

I think Abagond is right and there is a beauty gap, but I think he’s blaming the wrong people. The problem isn’t that directors and producers see black women as asexual. It’s that the marketing branches of the major television studios see that whites in America control fifty times the money that blacks do. Which audience would you cater to?

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 17:09:40 King

@ Awryguy

I know that sounds reasonable, at first, but in reality products are marketed based on more discrete demographic groupings. Black dollars are very key to certain products and services, and when they advertise, they are looking to see their market group represented in the demos for that show. The formulas are complicated, but suffice to say, it’s not a case of Advertisers [Block group] want to cater to monied White people [Block group] because Black people [Block group] don’t have much money.

Not so.

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 17:48:27 The Cynic

@King
Black dollars are very key to certain products and services, and when they advertise, they are looking to see their market group represented in the demos for that show.
-I just look to see if the product/service is good or not. I don’t need a random black guy present in order for something to be sold to me.

@Awryguy
Another thing to consider is perceived attractiveness. SW6 seems to think Alfred Woodward is ugly. To me, Alfred W. is just a normal looking old lady. Some people believe Jeniffer Aniston is attractive, to me she is an example of an ugly white woman on TV. You can put Sarah Jessica Parker in that pile too.

So, if a person finds traditional African features to be generally unattractive & traditional European features to be generally attractive, then I can understand how they can develop a perceived beauty gap in television btwn the two races.

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 18:41:05 TulipNoire

First of all I do not take this guy seriously, he is known here (UK) to be very controversial and always looking for attention with his ridiculous and rubbish research…

Anyway, he should do more research and focus on: “why Asian (East and SE) women are queuing up at hospitals to do different kind of surgery on their face to look more westernised and why are they bleaching there skins so much?” because I do not see any race of women rushing to hospitals to make their eyes slanted and finally “Why they are marrying WM more then themselves(AM)?”

The other day I was watching a documentary about China growing economy, and there was a part where they were talking about how Chinese women are obsessed about making their eyes bigger and to look more westernised as they said themselves that “it what they consider to be beautiful”, so I asked myself do they not consider themselves beautiful the way they are? I was shocked by what I was seeing and hearing and I’ve came to notice that the Asian people (men and women) are very complexed people and are looking for some kind of acceptance from “white people” and are ready to do anything to get their attention even if they have to be racist toward people who never done anything wrong to them… so pitiful and pathetic.

Anyway BW have been insulted and humiliated for decades and centuries now(even from their own men) for the way God have created them but you will never see them rushing to see surgeons to try to look like someone else, because there’s no race of women that represent the embodiment of feminity more than BW, but that is something some people prefer not to accept and prefer giving it to someone who go buy these same features and as long as she’s not black.

So that kanazawa can say whatever he wants about black women but I know for a fact that most men do not share his racist views.

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 18:55:50 Menelik Charles

Hmmmm interesting thoughts! Not something I would have said but i take your point.

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 19:07:25 G.L. Piggy

Menelik Charles wrote:

no race has been degraded, disrespected or caricatured by me: not a single one!!!!!

G.L.Piggy writes:

The point is not that you are degrading or disrespecting a particular race; the point is that you are touting your particular race of women which has the same effect as degrading or disrespecting. I’m not sure why you can’t see that you’re the same as Kanazawa in this regard.

Which is fine if you believe that one race of women is objectively more attractive than another, but just admit that you’re making the same argument as Kanazawa but with African descended women as your ideal.

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 20:13:56 The Cynic

@SW6
Just what are “traditional African features”?

-When I say “traditional” I am talking about STEREOTYPICAL traits. Wide nose, dark skin, kinky hair, full lips. Alfre Woodward most definitely applies. I am well aware that Africa has a diverse array of looks. I am not telling you what Africans look like. Why would you ask me what I meant by that and then go on to give me a long lecture on African phenotypes? No need to get all sensitive over diction…

You may not believe Alfe Woodward is ugly, but your comment did make it seem as if she is not appropriate for television/shouldn’t be representing black women. She may not be a dime, but neither are many white women on tv. If you don’t think she is ugly then why did you mention her? How is she any different from white actresses around her age like, Sue Sylvester(GLEE) or Jane Kaczmarek(Macolm in the Middle)?

http://tinyurl.com/3v36lac

Oh, and Angela Bassett is mostly a movie actress, but she has done work on ER.

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 20:30:52 Menelik Charles

@ The Cynic,

in response to the question posed by SW6, “what are traditional African features?” you replied with the following:

“when I say “traditional” I am talking about STEREOTYPICAL traits. Wide nose, dark skin, kinky hair, full lips”.

so that being said, can you tell me what you consider are “traditional” or “stereotypical” Asian female physical characteristics?

Just asking.

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 20:38:44 poetess

What is really sad about this whole thing is that some black women were hurt by this or even surprised. The truth is most women of color do not cut the mustard when it comes to eurocentric beauty standards which now find themselves across the globe as a result of colonization, slavery and the vast media empire that is run by and for whites.

I am fully aware that as a dark-skinned black woman with a curvaceous figure and short, natural hair that I don not in anyway fit the standard. And you know what? I don’t give a flying f* I will keep on being me. I’m one of the lucky ones, however. I was raised by a progressive mother who taught me how to resist the propoganda that I am unworthy. Now that she’s gone, I teach this to my nieces.

I am disappointed that the men and women in a position to help young black boys and girls recognize that unique beauty and inherent worth.

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 20:44:54 The Cynic

@Menelik Charles

Epicanthic eyefold
Pale to yellowish skin
Flat face
Dark thick pin straight hair
Lips/nose varies
No ass
Thin hips
Small chest(tho I just found this story about bra sizes getting bigger in China)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/4942152.stm

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 20:59:52 poetess

@the cynic
I totally agree with Abagond. Black women on TV shows on average are less attractive than the white women. They seem to be purposely perpetrating the idea that on average black women are ugly and white women are young and hot. I do get tired of seeing dowdy black women past their prime and/or fat black women on shows with predominately white casts. The one attractive black woman they had on Law and Order was fired (Regina Bell?) or bumped to reoccurring status. She was replaced with a white Latina.

On Glee all the young white girls and Asian girls are slender and cute – then there’s the stereotype of the fat black girl. You are partly correct about blacks being at fault for how they are portrayed. They certainly have vast consumer power to write in or boycott shows that don’t depict them the way they like. On the other hand, those using the public airwaves do have some responsibility for the images they put forth of blacks, women, old folks, whomever.

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 21:19:27 The Cynic

@Poetess

We will just have to agree to disagree bc on my television the average Black actress or person DOES NOT look like Gabby Sidibe/Precious

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 21:38:56 The Cynic

@SW6
“not as good looking” does not equal ugly.”

Yeah, I understood that. That is why I asked you this:

“How is she any different from white actresses around her age like, Sue Sylvester(GLEE) or Jane Kaczmarek(Macolm in the Middle)?”

Please stop telling me “I don’t think you understand” when I am constantly saying I do.

@Poetess
The avg Black actress on television does NOT look like that fat black girl from Glee! I think some of you guys have internalized every negative thing imaginable, attributed it to blacks(this is what happens when you care too much about what white folks think of you), and now suffer from confirmation bias. I don’t know how else you could get it in your head that the fat black Glee chick is the average black actress in the media. The AVERAGE black girls on TV look exactly like the women I posted in my link upthread.

https://abagond.wordpress.com/2011/05/23/satoshi-kanazawa-why-are-black-women-ugly/#comment-87957

I don’t watch Glee, but I did catch the episode that this white girl premiered in:

It’s either that or you guys are actively attempting to make Blacks look like victims. Seriously, I’m going through my head of all of the Black actresses I know and they are not physically inferior, in terms of beauty, when compared to the avg White actress.

@King, Poetess, SW6
I just don’t see it. I think we should agree to disagree bc nothing you can say can trump what I see with my own eyes and I am sure I cannot do the same for you guys.

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 22:16:17 King

@ Cynic

You can’t agree to disagree with me – for all I know, you might be right. All I said was that I don’t know (because I don’t watch T.V.) but that I think that a comparison of the full list of Black and White actresses should be made, in order to settle the matter.

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on Wed May 25th 2011 at 23:30:06 sepultura13

This article was so biased and one-sided, I’m amazed that any thinking individual gave it any credence. My family members wonder why I didn’t finish my psychology major years ago; this article clearly shows one of the many reasons why.

I didn’t want to work with crazy people, trying to ‘help’ them with their (mostly) self-inflicted issues – the money may be good, but not worth working oneself into an early grave from absorbing other people’s toxicity! 😎

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on Thu May 26th 2011 at 01:35:57 lil'vina

hmmm some scientist telling black women are less attractive? b.s if you asked me because he’s no denzel himself. i’m not surprised nor am i offended because it seems black women of today are constantly being picked on. what for? don’t know why. beauty comes in all shapes and sizes. just because asian women have slender, petite shaped, doesn’t make them any less of a woman or unattractive. any person who disrespects someone else because they want to make another group feel good obviously isn’t secure with himself.

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on Thu May 26th 2011 at 02:10:36 Mel

I agree with Cynic. While I can’t stand the “fat/confident black girl”, she is not the typical black female on TV.

Tamara Taylor on Bones is the most beautiful female on the show, but she’s a sidekick character:http://images2.fanpop.com/images/photos/3500000/Tamara-Taylor-Fox-All-Star-Winter-Party-2009-tamara-taylor-3552505-1830-2560.jpg.

There is also Tamala Jones on Castle; pretty, but sidekick:http://www.missxpose.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/1a43.jpg.

Aunjanue Ellis from The Mentalist: http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=Aunjanue+Ellis&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&wrapid=tlif130637574401010&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&biw=778&bih=374

Pretty black females on TV are ignored. But, there are plenty of fat-confident and middle-aged black females, too.

Oddly enough, both Alfie Woodard and Whoopi are married to white men (I don’t consider either ugly).

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on Thu May 26th 2011 at 02:37:47 King

i’m not surprised nor am i offended because it seems black women of today are constantly being picked on.”

I, for one, would be interested in seeing a post about the image of Black women, and how it has IMPROVED in past decades. I personally think that Black women are considered to be much more desirable today then at any time past, in America.

Some balance is needed.

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on Thu May 26th 2011 at 02:44:55 Jeri

Yeah, it is true that on television, you rarely see good looking black women. In real life, there are a whole lot of average looking white women and a whole lot of beautiful black women but you will never see that on television. Just beautiful white women and plainer, older black women. It is done on purpose. When I first started reading Abagond’s website, I notice he had his black beauty of the day post. He got alot of his photos from Model Mayhem. I decided to take a look at Model Mayhem myself. I saw thousands of beautiful younger black women, mostly brown skinned and darker. Most of these women are trying to make a breakthrough in modeling and acting. There were about 30,000 women on this site. And based on what I saw, ( I didn’t look at all 30,000 women) most of the women were extremely attractive in my opinion. But you don’t see these women on tv. There were alot of these women also on the Imdb website also. Beautiful black women all over both websites, but rarely on tv. And when they are on tv, they are stand ins or they play insignificant roles, like the waitress or something. They are purposely being excluded. How is it possible that there are probably 75,000 attractive black women trying to get on tv, yet few of these women become successful? I will tell you. It is racism. There are many people who want to keep the myth alive that black women are ugly. It is part of the racism that is practiced. That whites are goodlooking, the most goodlooking, and that blacks (especially the women) are unattractive. It allows them to feel superior. It is also done to make people feel that non-black women are entitled to better treatment. That is not to say that plain women should be mistreated. Lord forbid. But this is what racist people do to get people to believe that black women are at the bottom of the totem pole.

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on Thu May 26th 2011 at 02:47:34 leigh204

@The Cynic

@Menelik Charles

Epicanthic eyefold
Pale to yellowish skin
Flat face
Dark thick pin straight hair
Lips/nose varies
No ass
Thin hips
Small chest(tho I just found this story about bra sizes getting bigger in China)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/4942152.stm

Sorry, I just had to jump in here. The so-called traditional/stereotypical Asian female physical characteristics referred to here is East Asian. What about SE Asians? They also differ in appearance, too. Do they have the typical Asian female physical characteristics as mentioned above?

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on Thu May 26th 2011 at 02:52:24 King

@ leigh

I think that’s the problem with these stereotypes, until recently, nobody even bothered to make the distinction, believing that one blanket Asian stereotype was good enough for all Asians.

However Cynic probably could have added

Petite
Long hair

To the physical stereotype.

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on Thu May 26th 2011 at 02:56:16 King

“Yeah, it is true that on television, you rarely see good looking black women.”

“Just beautiful white women and plainer, older black women. It is done on purpose. “

I think that somebody really is going to have to make a list to list comparison in order for that charge to stick.

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on Thu May 26th 2011 at 02:56:23 leigh204

Here’s a candid pic of Filipina actress, Nikki Gil. She’s SE Asian obviously. Does she look typically “Asian”? Where’s the epicanthic fold? Pale to yellowish skin? Flat face? Dark, thin, pin straight hair? (Okay, you have me there.) Lips and nose…yes, I give you that. too. No ass? Thin hips? Small chest? SE Asians are regarded as having more of a “curvier” figure than East Asians.

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on Thu May 26th 2011 at 03:02:42 leigh204

Here’s another picture of Filipina actress, Nikki Gil. Are you telling me this woman possesses all the attributes previously mentioned? My apologies for the small pic.

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on Thu May 26th 2011 at 03:11:34 Jeri

@kING
I am sorry King, but I disagree with you. In the 70’s and 80’s, you saw quite a few beautiful darker black women on tv and movies. There were also alot of them singing in groups or alone. Also black women on tv and movies didn’t play stereotypes as frequently. You had the sweet and intelligent Thelma on “Goodtimes” (with her hair natural, she was a natural beauty) or the beautiful and brave Christy Love played by the beautiful Teresa Graves. You had Judy Pace, Pam Grier, Rosalind Cash, Cycely Tyson, Tamara Dobson, Diane Carroll, Ruby Dee, Vonetta Mcgee, Phylicia Rashad, Debbie Allen, Debbie Morgan and a host of other beautiful, intelligent, black actresses in the 1970’s. Now, things are the way it was in the 1930’s and 1940’s. That is how bad things are today!!! You either see the Aunt Jemima stereotype(Precious) today, or the sapphire. Or you see black women with their behinds sticking out, half naked on music videos. Now understand, that is just one step from porn. It doesn’t celebrate their beauty but objectifies them as sex objects. It is the jezebel stereotype. Black women are rarely wholesome, sweet, or intelligent on tv anymore. Yet it was way more common to see these type of women on tv in the 70’s and 80’s. I hate to say this, but I blame the modern day hip hop and music videos. Black women are either excluded as the love interest or they are half naked and objectified. Also, black women are constantly called b##%& or h@#. So because of these modern day artist, we have went back 70 years, back to the days when black women were only stereotypes and stereotypes alone in the 1940’s. And it was black people who sabbotaged themselves!!! Now we have to fight all over again to get things back to the way they were in the 1970’s.

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on Thu May 26th 2011 at 03:14:15 leigh204

@King:

@ leigh

I think that’s the problem with these stereotypes, until recently, nobody even bothered to make the distinction, believing that one blanket Asian stereotype was good enough for all Asians.

However Cynic probably could have added

Petite
Long hair

To the physical stereotype.

I’m of SE Asian descent (Filipina), but nearly all the people I’ve come across my entire life think I’m East Asian. But guess what? I have the epicanthic fold. My skin is light-ish/beige-y tone. I don’t think my face is flat as I’ve never been told that. My hair IS dark and thick, but my hair is actually naturally wavy and coarse. My lips are full and my nose is rather flat-ish. I miss my cute button nose I once had. lol! I’ve been told I’ve got a butt for an Asian. My hips are rather wide and as for my chest, I always thought I was a C-cup until I was professionally measured. Imagine my surprise when I was told I was actually a D-cup!

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on Thu May 26th 2011 at 03:20:42 King

@ leigh

That’s why they call them stereotypes! Plenty of people don’t fit them at all. SE Asians are not Japanese or Han, or Korean… it’s just a generalization that means nothing on a personal level.

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on Thu May 26th 2011 at 03:21:29 The Cynic

@Leigh

Yeah, I’m definitely talking about E. Asians. Good point

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on Thu May 26th 2011 at 03:22:29 King

Jeri, you did not just mention “Goodtimes” as a NON-stereotype Show!!!! Gasp!

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on Thu May 26th 2011 at 03:34:47 leigh204

@King:

@ leigh

That’s why they call them stereotypes! Plenty of people don’t fit them at all. SE Asians are not Japanese or Han, or Korean… it’s just a generalization that means nothing on a personal level.

Oh, I know. Just saying. 😛

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on Thu May 26th 2011 at 03:38:58 Jeri

@King
Maybe we have different ideas of stereotypes. The only stereotype that might have been on the show was J.J. with his “Dynomite”!! But other than than, I think Goodtimes was way better then what you see today( like Precious). There weren’t any mothers throwing tvs at their pregnant daughters on Goodtimes although there were normal people with normal problems. Hey, I hate to say it, but alot of people lived like the people on Goodtimes and still do today. Alot of our people are struggling but what I liked about Goodtimes is that the Evans despite their poverty and problems maintained their integrety. And that is a good lesson to learn. I would rather watch Thelma than alot of these neck rolling, angry, promiscuios, women you see on tv today. Thelma was likable, beautiful, intelligent, sweet, and basically a good girl. She lived in the ghetto and what is stereotypical about that!!! Alot of black women live in poor areas but they fight every day to maintain their integrety and character. And that is what Thelma did. I liked her mother also ( Estelle Rolle). She was a God fearing, loyal, strong, and compassionate women who stood by her man ( John Amos) through good and bad situations. And James, the father, was a honest, hardworking man who supported his family. Not a drug dealer or a playa. What is wrong with that? Yeah, J.J was goofy and acted in a exxagerated fashion ( that is why John Amos left the show), but I still liked his character. He was a talented painter who stayed out of trouble despite his violent environment and Michael was a highly intelligent young man who was proud to be black and knew his history. What is wrong with that? So I would rather watch that than the average Hip Hop videos or the violent gangbanging movies you have seen in the past 10 years.

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on Thu May 26th 2011 at 03:43:40 King

Jeri, maybe I’m speaking from the male side of the issue. Yes, I remember the women from your list, but I also remember that they were mostly ignored (as beauties) by most except among Blacks. There were not a whole lot of non Blacks openly drooling over Cycely Tyson, even Diane Diane Carroll was seen as pretty “for a Black girl.” It’s not as if she was a pinup.

I can give you a good example from my own life in High School. There was a very attractive Black girl named Jenine, in my class. When our school had our first dance several White guys came up to me and said, “Dude, you need to ask Jenine!” I asked if she had said something? They said that she hadn’t, but she was the hot “for a Black girl.”

Now, why did these guys even care who I asked to the dance? Where these guys so interested in my well being? NO. You see, these guys wouldn’t admit to liking her for themselves, so they wanted a Black guy to ask her out vicariously. None of them would asked her to the dance themselves.

However today, I’ve seen it happen ALL the time with the younger generation. If they think a girl is cute (whatever her color) they step up and ask her for themselves.

That’s the difference I’m talking about in how the way Black women are perceived has changed.

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on Thu May 26th 2011 at 03:48:37 King

Well, I won’t get into the finer points about the stereotypes on “Goodtimes” because it will take us too far afield.

I think that you are looking at an era of television where everything was much more innocent than it is today, for both Blacks and Whites.

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on Thu May 26th 2011 at 03:51:28 Jeri

@King
No, I would say the past 20 years. Since the early 90’s, the movies have become more and more violent and sexual. The characters have become more and more one dimensional and the plots are just plain boring. That is how I feel. Unless you are watching a Will Smith, Morgan Freeman, Angela Bassett, Samuel L Jackson or Denzel Washington ( the higher paid black actors) movie, the plots are boring, stereotypical, bufoonish, violent, and one dimensional. Just plain bad. I am in the late 30’s, so I remember alot of the movies and tv shows of the late 60’s, 70,s, and 80’s. And I enjoyed most the black movies and tv shows. Yeah, you had shows like Benson( about a black butler), and movies like Blacula and Superfly but alot of the tv shows, movies, plays, musical productions, dance productions( Alvin Ailey) were of better quality and were far more entertaining to me. They often fed the soul. Not like alot of the productions you see today.

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on Thu May 26th 2011 at 04:07:59 King

@ Jeri

Well, yes, that’s what I was saying. Things were much more innocent, in the past, but people still segregated beauty as if beauty for a Black woman or an Asian woman was totally different than Beauty for a White woman. Today people seem more inclined to appreciate beauty in more colors.

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on Thu May 26th 2011 at 04:10:06 Jeri

@King
I don’t know how old you are, but I was a teenager in the 80’s. You said that these men would not ask a black girl because they were not considered pretty. Well, the first guy who ever asked me out for a date was a white guy. I didn’t approach him. In fact, I didn’t know he existed! We went to a formal dance together. Also, the first guy to write to me a letter after asking me for my address was a Chinese guy. And in my highschool, the only interracial couple that existed was a bw/wm couple. They used to kiss in the hallway all the time. They have been married for 18 years. In fact, one summer 3 non-black men approached me, flirted with me, and wanted to date me. All this happened in the 80’s. If it didn’t happen as much in the 70’s, it is probably because things were still slightly more segregated in the 70’s. And whites didn’t know how to react around blacks. That doesn’t mean they didn’t drool over them. And I am not talking about Cycely Tyson being considered a pinup girl. No, I mentioned her because she played quality roles, a woman that you would admire. But the other women I mentioned were all considered beautiful back then. And how do you know how white men felt about those other women. Both white men and women don’t openly admit to liking blacks, but many of them still do find them attractive. But I think we are getting off the subject. I am not overly concerned with how whites think anyway. I am concerned with how blacks think when it comes to their own image. If they only see negative stereotypes all the time, it could affect their self esteem and it could lead to them making bad choices. I am not overly concerned with how whites felt about these actresses but I know that those actresses of the 70’s and 80’s had a positive effect on young black people like myself! And it is young black people that I am mostly concerned about.

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on Thu May 26th 2011 at 04:17:28 Jeri

@King

You keep talking about how innocent things were in the past. Well, alot of the movies that cater to whites with white actors are still pretty innocent. At least the white women are not portrayed as negative stereotypes in movie, after movie, after movie over and over again. They play lovely, intelligent, kind, classy characters more often than not. I can’t say that for black women. And why should we assume that things shouldn’t be innocent today! I don’t want to see violent, overly sexual, boring, bufoonish movies over and over again. What you call innocent, I call it normal. I call it the way things should be on tv. Blacks movie and tv shows should be of high standards just like any other production.

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on Thu May 26th 2011 at 04:19:41 King

@ Jeri

I think that you’re thinking more about media image and I’m going more with overall beauty perception. I’m at a disadvantage when it comes to TV because I only watch the news for about a half hour. I stopped watching TV when 50% of the shows were CSI and the other 50% were “reality TV.” I don’t like the movies much lately either, although I do think that stars like Rosario Dawson and Zoe Saldana are OPENLY drooled over by the mainstream males much more than their predecessors were.

Speaking of Which, I think that Seven Pounds was milestone for Blacks in film.

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on Thu May 26th 2011 at 04:34:43 Jeri

@King

I am going to say this again. How do you know that Pam Grier, Judy Pace, Dianne Carroll, and Teresa Graves were not drooled over by white men? Did you take a poll? If non-black men approached me ( and I don’t look like Rosario Dawson or Zoe Saldana. I was a brownskinned black woman with naturally long hair that is whoolly, large breast, and shapely legs, with a small waist who was approached by all kinds of men in the mid 80’s). I look like the typical black women, not lightskinned or hispanic. And I never had any problems getting attention from non-black men in the 80’s. So if they were willing to approach me, they probably wanted to approach Judy Pace, Teresa Graves, Tamara Dobson, Debbie Morgan, and Donna Summer ( she was real popular with all kinds of men) considering that I think those women were more attractive than me! I think I know more about this subject considering that I am a woman and I was a very young woman in the 80’s. You are a man and I don’t think men approached you and if they did, well that is another subject.

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on Thu May 26th 2011 at 04:44:55 King

@ Jeri,

You’ll notice that I keep using the word “Openly” before drool. What I am saying is not that they didn’t drool, but that they didn’t allow themselves to make an open display of it. They didn’t talk about it directly (in most cases).

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on Thu May 26th 2011 at 04:51:01 Jeri

@King

And how did we get on this subject? I am talking about black women and positive roles where they are considered wholesome and beautiful and somehow we got on this subject? Look I don’t beat around the bush. What are you saying? That black women who don’t look like Rosario Dawson(not lightskinned) wouldn’t be popular in the movies anyway because they would not be considered beautiful? Well, like I mentioned before. I know a little bit more about this subject than you considering I am a woman. I was there in the 70’s, 80, and 90’s and I know what was going on. Donna Summer was considered one of the most beautiful woman by all men during that time and she doesn’t look like Rosario Dawson. She was hot. And I don’t look like Rosario Dawson either and I was sought after in the 80’s ( the 90’s also, but I want to stay on the subject of the 70’s and 80’s). So lets not beat around the bush.

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on Thu May 26th 2011 at 04:52:11 The Cynic

I don’t think most ppl consider Rosario Dawson black…

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on Thu May 26th 2011 at 04:52:13 Jeri

@King

Well, if they approached me, then that is “openly’ right?

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on Thu May 26th 2011 at 05:00:48 Jeri

@King

You know the thing that bothers me about this subject, is that i am not talking about putting beautiful black women on tv to get the attention of white men or non-black men. I want them on tv for so many other reasons other than that but somehow you got on this subject, not me. I will say it again. It is about improving the self esteem of black women and making black women seem more like everyone else, not weird, ugly, angry, or one dimensional. It about improving our (black women’s) lives. I would hope that improving black women’s lives would be important to black men like yourself.

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on Thu May 26th 2011 at 05:01:26 King

And how did we get on this subject?”

I was saying that I think today, Black beauty is more readily accepted than in times past. You disagreed and said the 80s were better. I’m not sure why it veered specifically into entertainment.

Look I don’t beat around the bush. What are you saying? That black women who don’t look like Rosario Dawson(not lightskinned) wouldn’t be popular in the movies anyway because they would not be considered beautiful?”

I doubt if anyone would extract that meaning from what I have said on the subject, so far.

Donna Summer was hot, but she was still in a time when crossover beauty appeal was fairly new. I referenced Rosario and Zoe because (at this moment in time) they are the Black actresses most beloved by the mainstream audience.

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on Thu May 26th 2011 at 05:02:26 King

@ Cynic

Well, in her case, kind of mixed/black

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on Thu May 26th 2011 at 05:10:42 King

“It is about improving the self esteem of black women and making black women seem more like everyone else, not weird, ugly, angry, or one dimensional. It about improving our (black women’s) lives. I would hope that improving black women’s lives would be important to black men like yourself.”

Black women are certainly as beautiful as every other ethnicity of women. I happen to think that this beauty is being recognized today in ways it hadn’t been in the past. You seem to disagree.

I’m all for improving the lives, image, and prospects, for Black women and I think that Satoshi Kanazawa is a crackpot. One of the ways to improve things is to realize that along with the crackpots, there are other more positive developments as well.

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on Thu May 26th 2011 at 05:18:20 Jeri

@King
Yeah, back then, Donna Summer was the hottest black woman in the entertainment industry!!! Which backs my point. What you are saying backs my point also. Rosario Dawson is considered mixed. Not black. And the reason why you don’t have Donna Summers on tv anymore is because black women are being discriminated by the industry. And sometimes it is black men in the industry who are doing it. Gabrielle Union is considered beautiful also but you don’t see as many actresses as her. So the point I am making is that how do people know what they think is beautiful if they never see an example of that person. Most whites live in the suburbs and the only example of black women they see are on tv. You know it is a shame that black men don’t support black women in bettering their status in the media. Many black men have hidden agendas. But that is okay. Things will get better no matter what.

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on Thu May 26th 2011 at 05:33:45 King

I can only speak from my own experience and frame of reference. I live in LA, I travel in certain circles, mostly professionals, pluralistic ethnic mix of friends, a relatively youngish crowd. I get it that everybody else has their own experience and their own point of reference.

Like your point about Whites being isolated in the suburbs with no contact with Black people aside from what they see on television. That’s not the reality in my circles. However, it’s sure to be true in some others.

I agree that there are definitely some problems with some Black men and their ideas toward Black women. But I don’t think it’s a majority, and as you say – things are getting better and as time goes on they’ll get better still. That was my main point.

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on Thu May 26th 2011 at 05:54:27 Judy Cheruiyot

Hello,

I have been reading abagond’s blog for a while now and i must say it is very interesting to me especially as a Kenyan and African woman who lives in Africa.

I have read the study and although I am no scientist but his studies don’t seem to have credible data that you can process. I mean who did he interview, of what race were the participants, where did he find the black women i.e. black women from Britain, America, Brazil etc. I do not understand his methodology. Seems more like a survey than a proper scientific study. He uses big buzz words but that’s all they seem to me.

But my basic question is black women are ugly to WHOM? Certainly not to black men and as African woman certainly not to African men. I mean in Africa the standard of beauty is markedly different to western standards. I mean it makes sense to me that a skinny blonde blue eyed white woman would not be the standard of beauty in Africa. But it makes sense to me that it would be so in Sweden.

So if he says that white men GENERALLY do not find black women attractive as COMPARED to other women particularly white women that makes sense to me. But to even attempt to think that one can objectively quantify beauty and say that there is one equal and singular type of beauty is extraordinarily stupid and he is a w*$ker!

That being said African women certainly think we are beautiful and so do our men.

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on Thu May 26th 2011 at 06:22:34 King

Hello Judy, nice to have your Kenyan perspective.

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on Thu May 26th 2011 at 06:49:44 Jeri

@Judy
You know, I have been saying for years that black women in Africa are more prized than black women here in the States. We have to deal with alot more racism in so many different areas of our lives from the media, to what role we play in our families. When I brought this subject up of black women in the media, the last thing I was thinking about is how white men thought about black women in the 70’s and 80’s. I mentioned that subject ( of black actresses in the 70’s and 80’s) because there were more quality roles for black women in those days. Some people might insist that things are getting better for black women in the American media, but I just don’t think that is the case. I have seen about 15 Nigerian movies, and I must say that African movies in general present black women in better ways. There are more variety in the roles and the women are often presented as being more feminine, compassionate, intelligent, and classy. But black women in the States are still living with the aftermath of slavery, segregation, and present forms of racism and sexism. It is alot more difficult for us here, I think. I even think that black women in Europe are presented better than here in the states. For me this subject is not about white men and their preferences. But it is about improving the overrall quality of black women by ridding the American media of negative stereotypes. King got on a entirely different topic. And I admit, I was becoming frustrated. He mentioned Cycely Tyson not being a pinup. But I think she got her start as a model. She was one of the first darker, natural black women to make a breakthrough in the modeling industry. She was considered beautiful in her day because back in the 70’s and 80’s, blacks were for the first time in this country declaring that “black was beautiful” but I admired her for the positive, inspirational roles she played as well. We don’t have alot of Cycely Tyson today. No, she was not a pinup model but a high fashion model. But anyway, King kept bringing up this subject as if the success of a black actresss is entirely dependent on how white men viewed them. But for younger black women (like myself) during the earlier period of the 70’s and 80’s, it was about feeling good about yourself and having our perspective presented in the media. And I admit. I got off the topic. It was frustrating. But no this subject for me is about bettering the lives of black women in general, especially darker and natural black women, by dealing with the racism in the American media.

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on Thu May 26th 2011 at 07:43:36 Jeri

@Judy
And another thing I want to say is that King brought up that movies back in the earlier years were more innocent. It was an innocent time, according to him, but when I watch African movies, it appears to me that these movies have the innocence of the older black American movies. What is wrong with innocence? I think that alot of black movies(American) are too decadent and worldly. I would love to see more family oriented movies and more mature plots in black American cinema. I would love to see more love stories ( black love), more historical movies, even Sci Fi movies. I am tired of the same boring plots. And yes I would love to see more beautiful black women on tv. Not so men can desire us sexually but because I think it would be better for black women’s self esteem and I think It would improve their lives in general. We are beautiful and I want the world to know that. Not for our beauty to be hidden because it intimidates some people. I think that black women all over the world must fight for each other when it come to issues that affect black women, whether the issues concern American black women or African women. I think our influence increases when we unite together to fight against racism, sexism, and poverty.

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on Thu May 26th 2011 at 07:57:50 Judy Cheruiyot

Hi Jeri,

Thank you for your perspective.

That is exactly why I read this blog to understand the experiences of my fellow black sisters around the world. Women who look like me but seem to have entirely different outlooks on life, marriage, beauty etc. That’s why I love this blog and many other blogs run by black american women.

Growing up here am sure is so vastly different than if I was to grow up there. I mean you talk about movies and media and all that and I must say here in Kenya almost all media is run by black people. So we watch local movies and TV programs, listen to local music and if its international music its mostly Jamaican music or hip hop music. So we are as black as they get! But even if we watch Hollywood movies and read Cosmo and all those other predominantly white publications I do not get a sense that Kenyan women or African women internalize these subliminal messages that from what I hear from you is internalized by black women in Western countries.

I do not know how it feels to grow up in a predominantly white society that seems to push insidious agendas by playing up negative stereotypes about non-white people but I can only imagine how utterly soul-crushing that might be. I will say this though I admire a lot of you black women in America that despite all this you still think so highly of yourselves and you seem to hold yourselves with such pride and love for who you are. From reading numerous comments on this blog from black american women, I must say we African women could use a little bit of what you got.

As to your last sentence on the love of darker natural looking women a few years ago a survey was done in Kenya and to my utter surprise Kenyan men were found to prefer a medium chocolate brown to dark-skinned woman who is about 5’5 tall and a UK Size 12 as the ideal woman to marry. I thought they would prefer lighter skinned women (unfortunately some of us women and men here are not immune to the colorism issue) but they seem not to. Plus most Kenyan women are medium chocolate brown to dark-skinned so we have hope of marriage after all (wink).

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on Thu May 26th 2011 at 09:01:24 Jeri

@Judy

Thank you Judy. It is good to know that there are women like you who support us and understand our perspective. I wish I lived in a environment like yours, where black women are appreciated. It must be nice. I recently saw a young Nigerian woman’s music video. She shared it with me on youtube. The video was so enjoyable. She seemed so free in her spirit and heart, like she knew she was beautiful and appreciated. She was singing a love song to a beautiful black man and the video seemed so genuine. I am happy for you and other African women, that you don’t have to be constantly bombarded with negative images of yourselves. It must be so wonderful and freeing. Well, thanks again for your support. It is greatly appreciated. And yes, there is hope for us after all.

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on Thu May 26th 2011 at 09:44:13 Jeri

@King
And the point I was making is that things have gotten worse since the early 90’s. So often, you hear these hip hops songs that are self-hating, bufoonish, and have misogynistic lyrics And it is very sad because blacks in the earlier years fought so hard to create an environment where blacks didn’t have to face racism. Now it is like the way it was in the earlier years. All we need now is some black people eating watermelons and wearing black face and we are exactly where we were 90 years ago. We have modern day Amos and Andys and StepinFetchits. So no, I disagree with you that things are better than the way it was in the 70’s and 80’s. We have gone backwards when it comes to the media. But maybe it is possible that I watched more African American oriented movies, plays, musicals, and tv shows than you did. It is also possible you were more concerned with white people’s perspectives’ than I did in the earlier years. I lived in a predominately black environment and I didn’t interact with whites all that much except when I lived on a university campus when my mother was going to school to get her degree. I went to a high school that was 70% black and the whites at my high school were open about their interest in blacks, in terms of friendships and romantic relationships.. We all got along pretty well. And when I went to Florida for the summer, I was approached by quite a few non-black men, so I disagree that they were not open about their interest in black women. I was also approached by non-black men in college. But despite all that, I still was very African centered when I was young. I even expected to marry a black man (which is what I did). Even when I was a small child, I was African centered. So which women white men fantasied about was the last thing on my mind. I loved the older shows because they touched my heart and allowed me to love myself and my community. So I guess we have to agree to disagree. But we agree on one thing. Things will get better. Black women are fighting for better roles and I am sure we will be blessed and the doors will open for us. So lets just leave it at that.

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on Thu May 26th 2011 at 10:10:19 eco

Menelik Charles, I am still waiting. 🙂
In the meantime, you might want to explain two more things.

First this:
“attitude, lack of femininity, and an almost pathological need to determine what Black men think and say, are the ONLY areas in which Black women can be deemed to be less attractive than women of other races.
Black men merely making Black women aware of these observable facts are frequently subjected to vicious ad hominem attacks by simply breaking ranks, and speaking truth to the matriarchal order.
But they can’t handle the truth…”

Again, it’s not a fact or the truth just because you say so. Black women have a right to become annoyed with you, because you are wrong. You are attributing their behavior to their skin color. Black women do not have identical personalities, tempers, mentalities. They were not all brought up in the same way. You are perpetuating the Sapphire stereotype. Stuff like this is supposed to get people riled up.

No, I am not saying that I know black women better than you do. I am pointing out the fact that your statement is illogical.

Second thing:
“what if I were to suggest that Asian women in the US and UK appear to have a sever problem with Asian men’s “lack” of masculinity?”

Your point is… What? That the group you call “Asian women” can objectively see that “Asian men” lack masculinity? Can these women objectively rate a man’s masculinity? If they can do that, then the men, who are the first choice for these objective “Asian women”, are objectively the most masculine. I’m pretty sure this wouldn’t make black men look good. Are you sure you want to take this route?

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on Thu May 26th 2011 at 10:41:59 Menelik Charles

boy,

look, you talk to Asian women in the US or UK about why they don’t find their own men attractive!!!! I am merely an observer and listener!!!! I hear what I hear and I see what I see!!!! You want links and YT videos on the subject? Check them out yourself, you silly boy, because you don’t need me or anyone else to do work YOU can do ya damned self!!!

On that other matter.

Wait.

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on Thu May 26th 2011 at 11:02:08 eco

Yeah, they exist. I wasn’t questioning that. I asked about the consequences of their existence. There are “Asian women” who think “Asian men” lack masculinity. So what? What does that prove?

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on Thu May 26th 2011 at 12:31:21 The Cynic

@eco

Menelik:“attitude, lack of femininity, and an almost pathological need to determine what Black men think and say, are the ONLY areas in which Black women can be deemed to be less attractive than women of other races.
Black men merely making Black women aware of these observable facts are frequently subjected to vicious ad hominem attacks by simply breaking ranks, and speaking truth to the matriarchal order.
But they can’t handle the truth…”

This is not present in ALL black women, but it is definitely present in A LOT of them. Why is it that someone deemed sexist whenever they mention the high frequency or prevalence of this mentality among many bw? White folks and there common attitudes/racism is constantly mentioned, but no1 claims it is wrong to point out certain negative things we observe from their community.

Menelik is not the only one saying that and there is a lot of validity to those words. It’s not media brainwashing, racism, or sexism. It’s a mentality ppl, especially bm, experience all the time from the opposite gender. And no, it is not skin color, but it is definitely a culture.

Why some ppl on this blog like to live in fantasy world and pretend everything is okay? A lot of bm do horrible in school. Is that a racist statement or a general occurrence ppl notice?

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on Thu May 26th 2011 at 12:54:13 Menelik Charles

@ eco,

look, man, you’re being oppositional for the hell of it! You’re asking the wrong person! I am not interested in Asian men’s alleged lack of masculinity: THEY are:

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on Thu May 26th 2011 at 13:07:34 Menelik Charles

Watch out for the racial punchline at the end of the video, folks. Dr Satoshi Kanazawa certainly wouldn’t argue with its premise.

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on Thu May 26th 2011 at 13:17:28 Awryguy

@Jeri

Since the early 90′s, the movies have become more and more violent and sexual. The characters have become more and more one dimensional and the plots are just plain boring. That is how I feel. Unless you are watching Will Smith, Morgan Freeman, Angela Bassett, Samuel L Jackson or Denzel Washington…

Good thing Will, Morgan and Sam have been in almost every movie made for the last 20 years!

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on Thu May 26th 2011 at 15:17:23 Kenya

“And aren’t uterine fibroids the result of high estrogen and low testosterone?”

Yes.
Frailness and smallness of body and features what is seen as feminine is western and east asian society.

Obvious female markers like large breasts, full lips, small waist and round hips are seen as masculine on black women.

Thick, abundant hair (no matter the texture) and clear skin (not matter the tone) seems to be universal praised.

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on Thu May 26th 2011 at 15:46:12 Menelik Charles

Kenya said:

frailness and smallness of body and features what is seen as feminine is western and east asian society.

Obvious female markers like large breasts, full lips, small waist and round hips are seen as masculine on black women.

Menelik says:

have you ever heard of racial envy? Failing that, I’m sure you’ve heard of the psychoanalytic phrase Reaction Formation (please google it) which might well explain why Cinderella…oops, I meant black women get such a dreadful deal!

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on Thu May 26th 2011 at 16:04:49 Kenya

Menelik Charles:

“have you ever heard of racial envy? Failing that, I’m sure you’ve heard of the psychoanalytic phrase Reaction Formation (please google it) which might well explain why Cinderella…oops, I meant black women get such a dreadful deal!”

I have to disagree with the racial envy portion. I think it’s just what people like in western society.
Also, some of it is racism. When someone is deemed as inferior, it would follow that they’re deemed as unattractive as well.
On reaction formation, that’s interesting but I am not sure it applies here. That is, unless you think it’s not acceptable in western society to find black women attractive?
Let me know if I misunderstood you.

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on Thu May 26th 2011 at 16:08:36 Kenya

“I’d guess in his mind, Black women are an easy target.”

Basically.
But also, like many people tend to do, he projects his own preferences onto the masses.

His is a widely held and widely contested opinion.

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on Thu May 26th 2011 at 16:10:17 Menelik Charles

Kenya,

why did the ‘ugly sisters’ oppress ‘Cinderella’? And might she have felt about herself as a direct consequence of her mistreatment?

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on Thu May 26th 2011 at 16:19:24 Kenya

“why did the ‘ugly sisters’ oppress ‘Cinderella’?”

If I recall the story correctly, Cinderella’s father died when she was young. She was the child he loved. The stepmother brough her 2 daughters when she married Cinderella’s mom.
He loved Cinderella because he also loved Cinderella’s mother.
Also, Cinderella’s type beauty was praised in their society (black womens’ type beauty is not). So, they dressed her in rags so she wouldn’t stand out.
The stepsisters were not attractive but they had money to clean themselves up.

“And might she have felt about herself as a direct consequence of her mistreatment?”

I imagine she was left with no one who loved her. Her parents were gone and her stepmother resented that Cinderella was loved more than her and her stepsisters.

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on Thu May 26th 2011 at 16:21:33 Kenya

Also, define who the ‘prince’ (ie prize) is and you might get a difference answer altogether.

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on Thu May 26th 2011 at 16:33:41 Menelik Charles

Kenya,

with the greatest respect, what I’m alluding to are the workings of the sub-conscious mind and the various defence mechanism utilised to keep anxiety-inducing stimuli at bay. The sub-conscious mind leaks info i.e. makes Freudian slips. For example, read carefully what you wrote here:

“If I recall the story correctly, Cinderella’s FATHER DIED when she was young. She was the child he loved. The stepmother brought her 2 daughters when SHE MARRIED Cinderella’s MOM”.

My point is, Kenya, that the sub-conscious mind can slip up, revealing something possibly about some event in one’s own life, when you least expect it.

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on Thu May 26th 2011 at 16:49:33 Kenya

I meant when the stepmother married Cinderella’s dad.
Figured you’d catch my meaning anyway despite my lack of proofreading.

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on Thu May 26th 2011 at 16:58:22 Awryguy

No Kenya, I’m afraid that’s not it. You actually meant that you were raised by two mothers. Here, have a cigar.

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on Thu May 26th 2011 at 17:07:50 Kenya

“No Kenya, I’m afraid that’s not it. You actually meant that you were raised by two mothers. Here, have a cigar.”

Who me? The subject was Cinderella and I only made a mistake with who I was referring to. I hope this doesn’t turn into something that goes completely off topic.

Now, I might wish I did smoke. I’d take you up on that cigar if this turns into something crazy.

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on Thu May 26th 2011 at 17:21:47 Awryguy

@Kenya

I hope this doesn’t turn into something that goes completely off topic.

Since we’re apparently talking about race relations, Cinderella and psychoanalysis, I wouldn’t worry about that too much.

I’d take you up on that cigar

Heh-heh… you haven’t heard much Freudian theory.

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on Thu May 26th 2011 at 17:21:50 Menelik Charles

@ Kenya,

I will say that taken together, what you wrote did NOT constitute an error in a psychoanalytic context but were instead Freudian slips! Moreover, the fact you didn’t proofread what you wrote does not eliminate the fact they were slips, or leakages, from your sub-conscious mind revealing something of yourself or a painful event in your life.

I say all the above to say this in response to what you wrote earlier. Here’s my response:

1) Black women’s beauty is not acknowledged because it is both envied and desired by white men and women;

2) Black women’s beauty i.e. their physiques, skin coloring and facial features are the idealised female norm in white society;

3) as result of the defence mechanism of reaction formation white society seeks to reinforce the psychological borders of white beauty by inviting Bi-racial women into the fold and thereby excluding Black women;

4) white power and privilege compensates whites at the very moment their collective racial egos are pricked by some stress-inducing stimuli e.g. the appearance of the sub-conscious racial beauty ideal i.e. the Black woman.

The ugly sisters tried to convince Cinderella she was ugly and unworthy of public acknowledgement (think of the mass media): they were wealthy but they made sure they kept her impoverished.

Does any of this stuff ring a bell?

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on Thu May 26th 2011 at 17:43:05 Kenya

@Menelik
“I will say that taken together, what you wrote did NOT constitute an error in a psychoanalytic context but were instead Freudian slips!”

ok

“Moreover, the fact you didn’t proofread what you wrote does not eliminate the fact they were slips, or leakages, from your sub-conscious mind revealing something of yourself or a painful event in your life.”

huh? It couln’t have been laziness on my part?

I say all the above to say this in response to what you wrote earlier. Here’s my response:

“1) Black women’s beauty is not acknowledged because it is both envied and desired by white men and women;”

I believe a beautiful woman is envied by all. As universal as beauty is, it is also rare and subjective.

“2) Black women’s beauty i.e. their physiques, skin coloring and facial features are the idealised female norm in white society;”

When I see a woman with a body I aspire to and see as ideal, she is black 80% of the time. But, I don’t agree that this is what is idealized by western society.
Features I prize for my own physique is a small waist, rounded hips that are not wide and flat but give you a very pronounced waist to hip ratio, large-ish breats, darker skin. I find this beautiful and mostly on black women and some white/other women who have changed their body a lot to fit that look. You and I might have similar tastes. *shrugs*

I just don’t think this is what most white people like though. I could be wrong.
I am a black woman but noone’s beauty intimidates me like a black woman that I find ideal.

“3) as result of the defence mechanism of reaction formation white society seeks to reinforce the psychological borders of white beauty by inviting Bi-racial women into the fold and thereby excluding Black women;”

I feel that bi-racials can better meet their ideal than, say, non-mixed black women. Depends on which genes they got.

“4) white power and privilege compensates whites at the very moment their collective racial egos are pricked by some stress-inducing stimuli e.g. the appearance of the sub-conscious racial beauty ideal i.e. the Black woman.”

That’s not my problem.

“The ugly sisters tried to convince Cinderella she was ugly and unworthy of public acknowledgement (think of the mass media): they were wealthy but they made sure they kept her impoverished.

Does any of this stuff ring a bell?”

If you want to look at it that way. They didn’t want her to go to the ball because they knew the price would be enchanted by her.

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on Thu May 26th 2011 at 17:45:48 Kenya

“Heh-heh… you haven’t heard much Freudian theory.”

True but what I have heard sound junkier than Kanazawa’s ramblings.

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on Thu May 26th 2011 at 18:32:55 cute

@ Menelik Charles

”What IS most attractive i.e. feminine about Asian women are (aside from their eyes) their flat, negroid-like noses, and fullish, negroid-like lips! Aside from this they appear to be the 1st choice of repressed homosexuals or maybe even pedophiles.”
—-

Im gay and native american/latino, although some people dont really know my race they confuse me with italian and sometimes asian(i find it weird cause i dont look asian but w’e)

i dont know if that is true or not but im gay and i have seen a lot of gay white guys in the closet and that marry asian women i dont know if this has anything to do with it, also i was going out with a white guy and he told me he only liked asians and some latinos and he didnt liked white guys and some time after i found out he was a pedophile.

So i really dont know what to think lol, white men seem to have a lot of race issues.

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on Thu May 26th 2011 at 19:54:25 Menelik Charles

@ Cute,

I hear exactly what you are saying but unfortunately because what you say supports my non-PC utterances, your personal experiences will most likely be quietly ignored.

But I hear what you’ve said and I appreciate the feedback from within the gay community.

Thanks, man.

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on Thu May 26th 2011 at 23:58:05 Eurasian Sensation

Oh great, let’s now start basing our racial theories on what which race is preferred by pedophiles and the sexually confused.

This is surely a great step forward for racial understanding.

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 00:36:43 Lee

Are Black Women ugly? NO ! ! ! But this question sure is ugly ! ! ! And incredibly ridiculously stupid ! ! ! Do I have to forgive the questioner(s)? Well, I won’t. Not until he, she, or they see the Light : ) Illuminating through sweet brown eyes, brown complexion, deeper still and brighter still–a warm glow–rich as dark satin–and light as the moon reflecting brilliance from the stars–stars radiating brilliance through the dark night sky–velvet shimmering with gems of color singing and dancing, “This is Life when Love is draped around the rich smooth and soft shoulders of a courageous, bold, daring, intelligent and wise Black Woman!

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 00:40:02 NeverBelievedScientists

This jerk should do more research on why “Asian women” are trying so hard to look like western women by doing eyes surgery, changing the shape of their noise to look pointy, changing their jaw lines to make their face look oval and bleaching their skin like there’s no tomorrow, as if they were looking for some kind of acceptance.

BW have been punching balls of every races and scientists, their beauty has been denigrated, they have been humiliated as human being for centuries and still are, but we rarely see them going under the knife to try to look like someone else the way “AW and WW” do but scientists and other ignorants always try to make the world see that there’s something wrong with them.

The other thing I do not understand is that when BW are attacked, no one say anything and some people even agree with those attacks (as I read from some people here) even when they know it not true, but when other races of women are attacked the whole world come to their rescue even when you state the obvious facts it will be call racism, but when it regarding BW it’s not racism but normal.

This guy is just an ignorant and racist who base his research on his own personal issues and what shock me is how a well known London college like LSE can hire someone like that and keep him after all the offensive things he said because it is known that this is not the first attack he had on black people and other people like Muslims.

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 00:54:42 Longisland

PLEASE LISTEN: Sign this petition for Psychology today to stop publishing racists and sexist articles! we need all the signatures we can get just follow the link an fill in your information. Thank you!
http://www.change.org/petitions/psychology-today-stop-publishing-racist-sexist-articles

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 02:52:18 dave

I am very attracted to many black women,

but I am already married to a crazy italian lady who would prob chop my fingers off If she heard about me being attracted to any other woman.

By the way I’m half italian as well so I’m just joking.

However, I notice any negative opinion about black women creates the most controversy. So maybe this writer had that in mind when writing this article. Sometimes negative statistics (especialy about black women) will also create huge publicity negative or not. more magazines sold more web hits, etc.

I’ll give you some examples I’ve noticed.

The crazy Black Isrealites at Times Square. They say alot of negative comments about Jews calling them ugly rats, and supposedly all white people are decended from esau and are the cursed edomites of the bible(which is total bull)

But as soon as they started bad mouthing black women, the you tube comments went way up.

In fact black people didn’t even seem to care when they said they were going to start killing white people and making them slaves, and licking their boots, etc, etc, etc.

Only until the black women comments the more crazy sects of this religion were flagged off youtube. you can’t even find the real crazy videos anymore.

I’m sure you know of willy pete on youtube, he made a living talking bad on black women and hes black.

So long story short maybe ignore these ignorant people like they are dog dirt, and they won’t have an audience.

Just look and the number of comments here compared to recent posts, and you will see my argument holds water.

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 03:38:32 Franklin

@ Dave

By that “logic”, racist comments by internet whites helps further the truth about “the natural racism they are known to permanently harbor.”

See? Sounds just as foolish and filled with confirmation bias as your statement. If blacks didn’t care about ignorance towards whites then the majority of blacks would be in the Nation of Islam, take the New Black Panther Party seriously, and worship Dr. Kamau Kambon.

Your argument holds water as well as a bucket with a hole in the bottom. That is to say…“not very well” and “it only appears to, at one angle.”

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 04:13:56 dave

@franklin

come on chief,

racist comments on today’s internet come from all people , you seem to be the one who thinks it only comes from from more whites. and ONLY from the most militant of blacks. all you need to do is read some of the anti asian replys on this post, and there is alot of blacks who seem to get a free pass on this issue.

at least from one sided people like you.

and by the way I don’t agree with the man who wrote the article. just giving some friendly advice in dealing with the anti black women blogs out there.

I didn’t say it or agree with it.
I’m just saying black women seem to be a little sensitive, which is understandable,

But my father always told me to ignore people who aren’t positive influences in my life. If I came across a blog or a video that said all white men were ugly, knowing it isn’t true , I would ignore it.

I think you are a little off.

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 04:58:18 Franklin

@ Dave

racist comments on today’s internet come from all people

That’s a true but that’s an incredibly vague statement. Don’t try to disingenuously equate “Everyone does it!” with “Everyone does it equally!”

(*looks at your average Youtube video with a black person acting up*)

“Lol! Niggers!”, “LOL! TNB!”, “Niggers back to Africa!”, “(Random Crack/Fried Chicken/Black Stereotype comment)”

(*looks at your average Youtube video with a white person acting up*)

“Lol! Owned!”, “What was he thinking?”, “Cool!”

Also…

– Please point to black people trying to pass off a racist IQ study as legitimate when it’s nothing more than a “zombie version” of the dead science formerly known as Eugenics?

– Please point to the studies that try to imply that only blacks are humans, because they aren’t descendants of Neanderthals. Like Whites and Asians.

– Please point to me the number of Black Hate sites that is anywhere near the same number of White Hate Sites. In terms of current number or growth rate. (Bonus points for a list of Black Hate sites that try to tip-toe around the definition of hate with wide a reaching one…)

I could use many more examples, but I’m not a fan of massive walls of text…

To quote you…“Come on Chief!” I think you are a little out of touch with reality. Or at least the reality of others. Also, using the comments on this article was a bad move, as there are people who have spoken out against the negative comments by black posters. People (myself included) have disagreed with both Obsidian and Menelik Charles have said, and they’re both black. Although I have agreed with them in the past (moreso Menelik), I don’t fully agree with them on this.

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 05:00:23 The Cynic

@ Dave

I’ve ignored those New Black Panther & Hebrew Isrealite guys bc they are distractions. Sort of like birthers or Sarah Palin…

Though that is an interesting observation you have made about ppl being drawn to negative things about black women. Reminds me of all of those bw single marriage news stories that appeared in the mainstream press. I kept thinking to myself… “now why do whitefolks care so much if black people get married?”

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 10:04:03 eco

@ The Cynic

“This is not present in ALL black women, but it is definitely present in A LOT of them. Why is it that someone deemed sexist whenever they mention the high frequency or prevalence of this mentality among many bw?”

So, it’s not racist to say that black men are violent? Not ALL of them, but A LOT of them are. Just look at the crime rates!

What those statements do is creating a link between a skin color and negative behavior all people are capable of. Black men are not violent. Men raised in certain conditions are. Black women are not unfeminine, nagging bitches. Women raised in certain conditions are.

Can you see how bringing up race is senseless and gives the impression that skin color determines a person’s character?
What’s the point of blaming blackness for the fact that some black women are mean bitches? They are not more likely to be bitches just because their skin is black. It’s about a culture, an environment not all black women live in.

To all the women who are reading this: I know men are not always right when they consider a woman a bitch. I am ignoring that, because I want to keep this discussion as simple and as precise as possible.

“White folks and there common attitudes/racism is constantly mentioned, but no1 claims it is wrong to point out certain negative things we observe from their community.”

When we are discussing racism race is a factor. It makes sense to bring it up and talk about racial groups.
How does being of a particular race make women more or less likely to become bitches? It doesn’t. It’s irrelevant.

“Menelik is not the only one saying that and there is a lot of validity to those words. It’s not media brainwashing, racism, or sexism. It’s a mentality ppl, especially bm, experience all the time from the opposite gender. And no, it is not skin color, but it is definitely a culture. ”

If you believe that this is about a culture then why are you singling out black women and talking about them as if they were all part of that culture? Do you really believe that Karrine Steffans and Michelle Obama are representing one culture? One mindset? So why are you lumping them together?

@ Menelik Charles

“look, man, you’re being oppositional for the hell of it! You’re asking the wrong person! I am not interested in Asian men’s alleged lack of masculinity”

You used it in an argument.
Eurasian Sensation said: “Asian women are also the 1st choice of Asian men. Asian men don’t seem to have a problem with Asian women’s so-called lack of femininity.”
You replied: “unquestionably true….in places like China, Japan and Vietnam lol. But what if I were to suggest that Asian women in the US and UK appear to have a sever problem with Asian men’s “lack” of masculinity?”

Stop deflecting and finally admit what was your point.

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 10:28:20 Awryguy

@cute

i dont know if that is true or not but im gay and i have seen a lot of gay white guys in the closet and that marry asian women

This brings up lots of questions. First, how many is “a lot”? Have you seen this happen more than 5 times? More than 10?

I guess these guys aren’t totally in the closet, since they’ve let you know their sexuality. So they’re honest with themselves about being gay, and are just lying to their families, right? Do they tell their new wives?

Which leads to the last question – if these guys are aware of their own homosexuality, why would it matter which race of woman they marry? I can’t imagine a gay man would think “Well, I guess I’ll just pick a woman with small breasts and squeeze my eyes shut really tight.” I’d think you would look for a friend to marry, and not base your choice on sexuality.

I know if the social tables were turned and I was forced to pretend to be homosexual, I wouldn’t base my fake marriage on finding a guy who looked kind of feminine.

also i was going out with a white guy and he told me he only liked asians and some latinos and he didnt liked white guys and some time after i found out he was a pedophile.

Which makes me want to ask – how old are you? It’s hard to guess because on the one hand you’re old enough to have lots of friends already married, yet at the same time you’re attracting pedophiles and writing like a high school student.

I ask because your age is an important factor when you present your own life experiences as evidence.

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 12:03:17 Awryguy

@NeverBelievedScientists

Asian women” are trying so hard to look like western women by doing eyes surgery, changing the shape of their noise to look pointy, changing their jaw lines to make their face look oval and bleaching their skin like there’s no tomorrow, as if they were looking for some kind of acceptance.

I’ve heard this tired rant so many times in this thread, but you summarized the position nicely. Allow me to refute.

Asian women – and I speak primarily of the women here in China, but that is the largest group of them – have their own standards of beauty which have much less to do with Western standards than people in the West seem to believe.

The “eye surgery” that is commonly done here (and cosmetic surgery is not that common) is not to make narrow eyes into round eyes. It is to change single-lidded eyes into double-lidded, which has to do with the way the bottom eyelid is folded. Some Chinese women consider this a mark of beauty, but most Westerners wouldn’t notice the difference.

Skin bleaching is fairly common in China, because lighter skin is considered attractive. That has nothing to do with race, however, or to do with the outside world at all. It’s because dark skin here denotes a person who has to work outside all day, while white skin shows that you have money and/or an office job. It’s an old prejudice dating back to long before white people made any real impact on China.

They’re not trying to look like Europeans, they’re trying to look like a certain kind of Asian. It’s a mistake to assume that the rest of the world is tied up in the same racial insecurities that haunt America.

That said, most mainland Chinese are incredibly racist by our standards. Today the Chinese teachers at my school threw a birthday party for the kids with an “Africa” theme. I don’t need to fill in all the details, but there were lots of animals, grass huts, bongo drums and dancing Zulus. But they don’t know that’s racist because they’ve never had racism explained to them, and they don’t know what Africa is really like because geography and history are badly neglected in the Chinese education system (too many awkward discussions about emerging democracies).

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 13:13:32 King

@ Awryguy

I think that BigWowo, the Chinese guy, disagrees with your take on it.

http://www.bigwowo.com/2011/05/asian-eyelid-surgery/

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 13:14:31 Patricia Kayden

Didn’t know that Psychology Today changed the title of the “scientific” study several times. Interesting.

Wonder why PT felt they could print such rubbish and get away with it. It’s not scientific at all. Just more racist posturing.

Kanazawa needs to write fiction.

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 13:41:13 Awryguy

@King

Thanks for the video link. As the report noted, it’s not just Western models but also Asian models with large eyes that provide the ideal here. That leaves the question open as to whether it’s the Western image that’s appealing, or the large eyes themselves.

Also, as much as the video tries to hype it, “He sees 100 patients a day! 30% are from mainland China!”… we’re still talking about a tiny, tiny percentage of Chinese women.

Chinese people don’t picture white people as a particularly attractive group. They know all the sexy celebrities of course, but they’re also aware that the average white American is pretty overweight. I hear the word “fat” used to describe white people more than any other. Point being, my impression is that most Chinese are pretty secure in their relative attractiveness as a group.

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 14:07:58 King

@ Awyguy

The CNN video seems to directly contradict your idea of both the issue and the scope. I could quote from it if you like?

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 14:15:40 The Cynic

@eco

Do you think you can re-write a response to me without a million strawmans?

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 14:25:52 Menelik Charles

@ The Cynic,

looool nice response!

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 15:15:04 Awryguy

@King

You can quote from the video if you like, although you may trust that I’m not having problems remembering it. Yes, I have a different view on the issue than CNN.

I feel like there’s a point to be made about white media playing up Asian insecurities at a time when Americans are increasingly nervous about China’s growing influence. But I’ve never really studied the interplay of race and the media, unlike apparently everyone else who happens to comment here, so I’ll leave it to you to decide if that’s worth considering.

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 15:25:18 Herneith

I feel like there’s a point to be made about white media playing up Asian insecurities at a time when Americans are increasingly nervous about China’s growing influence.

You hit the nail on its head.

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 15:26:32 Menelik Charles

The problem with Black women is that they are seen as TOO emphatically female compared to other races of women, and they are punished for it! And it aint just me saying it:

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 15:29:59 Menelik Charles

Of course, where looking alluring and female is concerned one has to imagine white women (and others) possess something they don’t in reality. Maybe this might explain butt implants among white females:

SHOOT THE MESSENGER, ME, IF YOU MUST!

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 15:35:29 xxxphantomxxx

@eco you need help boy go back to you peoples websites.

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 15:38:12 xxxphantomxxx

@Eurasian Sensation
you need to go back to stormfront or wherever it is you people come from I’ve seen your racis comments about black people on racialious a bit surprising to see you trolling here but what else can you do, go back to the dungeon where you people came from.

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 16:07:37 Menelik Charles

@ xxxphantomxxx,

brother you really must provide evidence/links for some of what you claim above otherwise it isn’t fair on those to whom you level the charges.

just saying

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on Fri May 27th 2011 at 17:16:40 NeverBelievedScientists

@Awryguy

“I’ve heard this tired rant so many times…” yeah but it is true.
I agree with what you’ve said, but I was not referring to American AW but to the one back in China and here is the reason why. I watched a documentary about China, and Chinese women were saying from “their own mouth” that the western look is what is considered to be beautiful there and all this because of the western media and advert were all you see is tall, blonde or brunette WW with their big brown, blue or green eyes. During the documentary when they were filming different big towns of China all big posters of adverts on the street were just WW and AW( which were either mix race or done surgery to look different from the original Chinese women). And the other thing that shocked me is that they’ve said in China if you want to be a model or want a career where you’ll be constantly in front of the camera you will have to go for that western look so you can imagine the influence it’s having on young Chinese girls growing up in a country with this kind of mentality, as there was a 23 years old Chinese girl who had 10 surgeries to become a model as she said it was the only way to break in the fashion industry in China and looking at her before and after the surgery you won’t believe that it was the same person.

Another part of that documentary they were showing was about the beauty contest that they have every year in china, where the president of that contest (who by the way was Chinese) was saying loud and pride that if the girls want to participate they will have to have that western look( big eyes, pointy nose, light skin, oval face etc…) or they will never make it at the first round…so for them the natural Chinese beauty is not beautiful but the “edited” or fake one is. So it quite scary of a so call next powerful country to have this kind of thinking. For me, a Chinese beauty contest should represent the real and original Chinese women not the edited one.

To show you that the western world are also contributing to this madness way of thinking, there was a French designer who has been living in Shangai for 11 years and has made quite a name for herself there. She was in search for a model to be the face of her next catalogue. Most of the girls who were there were naturally beautiful meaning no surgery done and some had surgery done most of them on their face. After looking at all the girls, she said that it was very hard to find a girl who was different from the rest because all of them looked alike. After she finally found the one who was standing out of the rest and surprise!!!… it’s the one who had her eyes done, and when asked what she had that the other didn’t have her answer was that she was not different from the rest and told the reporter that as you can see she’s not that beautiful (which for my part I did find her very pretty) but just her eyes were bigger and that’s what caught her eyes, and the poor girl was just standing there smiling at them while they were saying unpleasant things about her because she could not hear French. When they’ve asked her that if her eyes were done, she said yes (laughing uncomfortably) and said they were the most popular.

Can you imagine if a country like China, which in maybe few years will take over America of being the most powerful country in the world have this kind of thinking, well it is…frightening and you’ve said yourself “…most mainland Chinese are incredibly racist by our standards” I wonder how every person on this planet who is non-white will be considered or treated? Already it is known that China has a very bad image regarding human right by the way they’re treating their own people.

You are saying that “They’re not trying to look like Europeans, they’re trying to look like a certain kind of Asian.” I very much doubt so as themselves they’re admitting the ugly truth. I’m not saying it applies to all AW but to most of them it really does especially the one in China.

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on Sat May 28th 2011 at 01:18:45 Awryguy

@NeverBelievedScientists

Sounds like an interesting documentary. Let me ask – was it produced by a white English company, for a white English audience?

Beauty pageants and the fashion industry are not a great indicator of popular culture. Most white men I know don’t drool over the Miss America pageant, because tall and skinny with a fake nose isn’t as popular as, say, Jessica Alba. Fashion shows are even less appealing, whether the look of the year is “heroin chic” or “skeleton parade”.

What you’re talking about is designers and advertising executives trying to force a top-down redefinition of beauty on to the Chinese public. It’s an effort to create an international standard of beauty so that they can sell the same products to everyone. It can only ever partially succeed, because most men will still be drawn to women who resemble their sisters and mothers (thanks Freud).

What you’ve seen of Chinese culture is only the tip of the iceberg – and it’s a tip specifically selected for a Western audience. The vast majority of Chinese people are still working their asses off everyday just to get by, speak very little English, and primarily watch Chinese television and Hong Kong movies. They compare themselves to other Chinese, not Westerners. My students call me “big nose” or “monkey arms”, not “Mr. Beautiful”. My female foreign co-workers get told that they’re fat way too often (it’s not considered rude to joke about someone’s appearance here). Chinese women are aware that they are attractive to many Western men, and I’ve never heard them express any racially-based insecurities.

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on Sat May 28th 2011 at 03:31:59 Eurasian Sensation

@ xxxphantomxxx

“Eurasian Sensation
you need to go back to stormfront or wherever it is you people come from I’ve seen your racis comments about black people on racialious a bit surprising to see you trolling here but what else can you do, go back to the dungeon where you people came from.”

Dude, either you are high, or you have me confused with someone else. Please show me the evidence of my “racis” comments about black people on Racialicious, or forever hold your peace.

PS “go back to wherever it is you people come from” is a funny comment when you are accusing me of racism.

Here is my post about why Satoshi Kanazawa is wrong, by the way.

http://eurasian-sensation.blogspot.com/2011/05/satoshi-kanazawa-and-black-women.html

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on Sat May 28th 2011 at 04:27:28 King

Eurasian Sensation is cool. He’s has been commenting around the ethnic blogosphere for years now & on his own blog. I’ve never heard of anyone ever accusing him of being a racist. Maybe of being a bleeding heart liberal 🙂 but never a racist.

Could be more than one “Eurasian” screen name out there though, obviously.

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on Sat May 28th 2011 at 04:48:49 dave

@franklin

I think maybe you need to watch the twilight zone episode abagond recommended ” eye of the beholder ” to realize your reality and mine are just different.

However most of the so called super racist comments on youtube you speak of are mostly dumb kids or ignorant aholes.I think maybe you take them more seriously then they are.

But when I see these very hateful black israelites getting attention from kids I think that is pretty serious. they threaten people walking in Times Square

next you say whites and asians aren’t fully human. hmmmmmmmm. isn’t that one of the steps of genocide? just saying

and by the way this is really off subject , and I was not going to respond to your attack. just didn’t want you to get the last word when your words have alot of holes in them.

now spew all the hate you want franklin — go ahead.

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on Sat May 28th 2011 at 05:12:40 Eurasian Sensation

@ dave:

(@ franklin): next you say whites and asians aren’t fully human. hmmmmmmmm. isn’t that one of the steps of genocide? just saying

I’m not going to speak for franklin, but I’m pretty sure that’s not what he was saying. You might need to read his comment again.

@ King:
Cheers. You are cool yourself! 😉
I’m not going to claim to be free of prejudice, but xxxphantomxxx’s comment was kinda odd.

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on Sat May 28th 2011 at 06:26:57 Ana

@ Dave,

You cannot tell someone to not take it seriously when any video that has a black person in it is hit with racist comments. That’s not fair to say the intent of those posters is more important than how it feels to the person the slur is directed at. Personally I would love to be able to surf the net like everyone else without having to have my own humanity and dignity question every time.

And I don’t like those black israelites either, just like I don’t like the tea party. Regardless you cannot separate intent, its the words that matter.

And I think he was turning the response around to ask that if blacks were showing racist tendencies as much as whites were, why isn’t there a huge following of “whites & asians aren’t human”? Why is it always whites writing that stuff about blacks? I think that was his point.

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on Sat May 28th 2011 at 06:44:47 Iris

Thank you, Awryguy for all your comments about East Asians and plastic surgery. I am tired of this entirely westernised and `Whitened’ way of people looking at it. Half of Chinese, a third of Koreans and a quarter of Japanese are already born with this sought-after double-eyelid and most South East Asians have them. But no, the people getting surgery are not trying to look like those `lucky’ East Asians or South East Asians who were born with double-eyelids, White people are just so amazing, they must be trying to look like them… I also like how they all conveniently forget that East Asians can be born even paler than White people and can also have oval faces. I have not heard of the surgery to get a `pointed nose’, though I have heard of getting a higher nose bridge. The height of this also varies among the populations, but naturally White westerners only notice that it is lower than theirs and conclude they want White noses. The last thing I will say on the topic is, if they really wanted to look White so badly, don’t you think they would do such a good job that you wouldn’t be able to tell they were an `East Asian trying to look White’?

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on Sat May 28th 2011 at 06:48:32 Franklin

Bah! My other comment is in moderation.

@ Ana

And I think he was turning the response around to ask that if blacks were showing racist tendencies as much as whites were, why isn’t there a huge following of “whites & asians aren’t human”? Why is it always whites writing that stuff about blacks? I think that was his point.

This lil’ lady gets it. As far as racism has been going, it’s been whites (and a white nonsense parroting, token minority, lapdog) trying their hardest to legitimize their lunacy based theories about blacks, in order to justify past misdeeds. Whereas the opposite being done by blacks is damn near non-existant and damn near always reactionary.

(That’s not ME justifying their actions, just showing that it’s the comparison of a mountain to a grain of sand.)

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on Sat May 28th 2011 at 06:53:26 Awryguy

@Everyone, basically.

Maybe growing up in Canada I was sheltered from the worst of this , but I have never, ever heard anyone say that black people aren’t human. The only time I’ve even encountered the opinion is in my history courses, and it was met with automatic rejection by everyone present (in what was usually an all-white room).

Youtube comments are probably the lowest form of communication on the internet. I can’t imagine that anyone over the age of 16 and possessing a brain even bothers trying to get through to that crowd. Would it not be fair to assume that because of the large population difference between white and black America (4 or 5 to 1, right?), there must be far fewer videos featuring black people, and far more whites to be potentially racist commenters on each one? I mean, any black racists out there would run themselves ragged trying to post on every video of a white person doing something stupid.

…why isn’t there a huge following of “whites & asians aren’t human”?

Nation of Islam anyone?

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on Sat May 28th 2011 at 07:18:22 Awryguy

@Iris

You and I are just a big bundle of agreeability today.

I also like how they all conveniently forget that East Asians can be born even paler than White people

Yes, exactly! When I came back from my vacation in Borneo I was the darkest person on staff. I was also told that I looked better with a tan. Chinese people can think that lighter skin looks good on them without applying some sort of “white is right” rule.

if they really wanted to look White so badly, don’t you think they would do such a good job that you wouldn’t be able to tell they were an `East Asian trying to look White’?

Right again. I’ve noticed that the children at my school with one white and one Chinese parent could easily pass for fully Greek or Italian. The eyes are the only highly distinguishing feature between the two races, and as we’ve seen that’s not hard to change.

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on Sat May 28th 2011 at 19:20:02 chic noir

Jeri Now, things are the way it was in the 1930′s and 1940′s. That is how bad things are today!!! You either see the Aunt Jemima stereotype(Precious) today, or the sapphire.

Very true Jeri but I’m not at all bothered by seeing fat darkskinned older blk women on TV. There are blk women who look like that and should be represented. I think you see plenty of big blk women on TV because it’s gotten out to the mainstream that blks are comfortable with themselves and that “we” don’t like the herione chic look.

jeri Yet it was way more common to see these type of women on tv in the 70′s and 80′s

Very true. I think Diahann Carrol had a very good hand in that to an extent. You can also thank Berry Gordy and Clive Davis.

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on Sat May 28th 2011 at 19:35:12 chic noir

King
Jeri, you did not just mention “Goodtimes” as a NON-stereotype Show!!!! Gasp!
I know many blk cultural critics have issues with Goodtimes but I don’t have much of an issues besides James being out of work to darn often but there was a reason for that.

jeri co sign on Goodtimes. And good point about Cycely Tyson but don’t forget Naomi Simms. That woman was class. I like Nollywood movies too. Now Ghana has a movie industry. It would be nice if African-Americans started their own movie industry.

Jeri and I don’t look like Rosario Dawson or Zoe Saldana. I was a brownskinned black woman with naturally long hair that is whoolly, large breast, and shapely legs, with a small waist who was approached by all kinds of men in the mid 80′s).

Sometimes we anwser our own questions lol.

Maybe King grew up in another part of the country jeri so his experience is different.

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on Sun May 29th 2011 at 06:50:54 andy2700

Although I don’t know Mr. Kanazawa or his motives, I have to say that it’s not wrong to pose the question “why do people have negative perceptions of black women and their attractiveness?” The recent re-creation of the “black doll test” shows us that very young children definitely absorb certain concepts of beauty, and we can’t counteract the negative beliefs/perceptions if we don’t look at how and why they come to be.

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on Sun May 29th 2011 at 19:33:08 Mel

Right again. I’ve noticed that the children at my school with one white and one Chinese parent could easily pass for fully Greek or Italian. The eyes are the only highly distinguishing feature between the two races, and as we’ve seen that’s not hard to change.

There is more than just “eye differences” between East Asian and Europeans.

The hair texture and bone structure of East Asians is different from those for Europeans. Even if East Asians change their “eyes” they’d still look East Asian. (e.g. Jackie Chan). The most an East Asian can come to looking white (through surgery) is to look Eurasian. There was a woman in my building whom I thought was East Asian, but found out she was Russian, or from one of those Eurasian countries.

In terms of paleness. Many East Asians range from caramel to light olive. I rarely see East Asian with milky white skin. If they do have pale skin, it’s usually pale yellow e.g. (Zhang Ziyi) NOT pale white/milky white (.e.g Nicole Kidman).

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on Sun May 29th 2011 at 20:03:04 Mary F

Beauty belongs to the eyes of the beholder… Let it rest.

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on Sun May 29th 2011 at 20:35:12 Herneith

now spew all the hate you want franklin — go ahead.

Franklin can’t. There’s a Memorial Day sale at Macys, if you hurry, maybe you can purchase a few deals before it closes.

Maybe growing up in Canada I was sheltered from the worst of this

Where did you grow up, in moosecrotch Alberta?

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on Sun May 29th 2011 at 20:38:26 leigh204

@Mel:

I have come across some East Asians as well as some SEAsians with the pale/milky white skin, but they actually came from Asia. The Asians born in the West tend to have “darker” skin.

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on Sun May 29th 2011 at 20:39:15 leigh204

More porcelain skinned Asians.

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on Sun May 29th 2011 at 20:41:38 leigh204

Same woman.

Look at her neck.

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on Sun May 29th 2011 at 20:43:52 leigh204

My apologies.

Here’s the second pic of the same woman…the one with the neck.

She’s pretty pale, yes?

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on Sun May 29th 2011 at 21:34:21 Ms. Dominican Republic

This man is so fugly and racist!!! I’ve read one of his articles before about IQ and race. It was a load of crap. I’m Black and my IQ is between 129-135. He looks like a giant toad.

He has not right to say that Black women are unattractive. Black women are beautiful. We come is so many different shades and colors. He obviously hasn’t visited countries like Angola, Brazil, Dominican Republic, Trinidad & Tobago or Jamaica or any country with a significant Black population.

I think I’m pretty attractive. I’m a mixture of Black American on my moms side and Jamaican, Dominican, Puerto Rican and Chinese on my Father’s side. My features are mostly African/Taino, I’m 5’3, I’m curvy I have an hourglass figure my measurements are 36-24-42.I have natural hair, my skin is a cinnamon color. My nickname that my grandma used to call me is actually Canela which means cinnamon in Spanish.

I generally attract guys of all races. I attract mostly Middle Eastern, Indian and Latino guys. I’ve been approached by some white men recently. I attract Black men the least. I think it’s because of my hair. It’s natural and to my shoulders my hair used to be straight and to the middle of my back.

I think I’m very beautiful. It took me a long time to accept myself. I used to feel insecure about my skin color and hair but now I wouldn’t change it for the world.

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on Sun May 29th 2011 at 21:38:34 Menelik Charles

http://www.rippdemup.com/2011/05/revolution-will-be-blogged-black.html

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on Sun May 29th 2011 at 23:47:00 awryguy

@Herneith

Where did you grow up, in moosecrotch Alberta?

Moosecrotch is a lovely town, but no, I grew up in Toronto.

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on Mon May 30th 2011 at 07:48:56 Iris

Mel

There is more than just “eye differences” between East Asian and Europeans.

The hair texture and bone structure of East Asians is different from those for Europeans. Even if East Asians change their “eyes” they’d still look East Asian.

Awryguy was referring to someone who was half East Asian, half White, in which case you can get a lot of variation. Some EAW people can look 100% East Asian, others 100% White and everything in between.

Otherwise, yes, I agree with you. There is a lot of variation between East Asians and White people that go a lot further than the eyelids and nose bridge (the surgeries people are saying East Asians get to `look White’). e.g. less depth to eye sockets, more fat above eyes, straighter eyelashes, sparse eyebrows with some hairs growing downwards, connected ear lobes (no dent between ear lobe and jaw), tendency towards long torsos compared to legs, tendency to have shorter calves. The average non East Asian person won’t notice these things or wouldn’t have paid so much attention (as I have, in trying to figure out where exactly I sit on the EAW `scale’).

In terms of paleness. Many East Asians range from caramel to light olive. I rarely see East Asian with milky white skin. If they do have pale skin, it’s usually pale yellow e.g. (Zhang Ziyi) NOT pale white/milky white (.e.g Nicole Kidman).

Leigh is right. If you see East Asians who were born in East Asia, many more have that pale white skin. This is because pale skin is more popular there than it is in the west, so there is not this craze about being tan.

More examples:

Also, the further north you go, the paler the skin gets. Just like if you compare the people in southern Spain and Portugal to the Scandinavian people living the furthest north.

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on Tue May 31st 2011 at 04:07:03 cute

@Awryguy im 17 but when i meet guys i always say im 18 lol well i guess u will figure it out that i do meet a lot of guys, i try to meet as many men as i can and it helps that im super cute =P and i never said those gay white guys were my friends they were just guys i met and to have sex(doesnt mean i had sex with them though) Most of this gay white guys with asian women also told me they were bisexual but it was pretty obvious they were mostly gay i guess 9/10 gay 1/10 bisexual because they were always searching for guys

You asked how many of this i have met, i have met around 10 or 13 gay/bisexual white guys in the closet married to asian women also all this white guys married to asian women were 37+ so that could have something to do with it too and 1 white guy that only liked asians and some latinos that was a pedophile and what race u think was the 13 year old he had sex with? u figure it out lol.

and also overall white guys always have some weird fetish they have told me they only like asians or latinos and they dont like white guys and others that only like whites contact because they confuse me with a med white

so i only have to be remembered about race when i talk with white guys because all the black,latino,asian guys i meet never tell me oh i only like this race,blablahblah

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on Tue May 31st 2011 at 04:19:29 Menelik Charles

Cute,

I totally get where you’re coming from, young man! Keep telling the truth as YOU experience it and don’t allow anyone to bully you into silence because of political correctness!

Lies or truth must not be censored: you spoke the truth!

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on Tue May 31st 2011 at 06:19:48 Iris

You asked how many of this i have met, i have met around 10 or 13 gay/bisexual white guys in the closet married to asian women also all this white guys married to asian women were 37+ so that could have something to do with it too and 1 white guy that only liked asians and some latinos that was a pedophile and what race u think was the 13 year old he had sex with? u figure it out lol.

So, knowing of 13 Asian women and one Asian child who attracted gay, bisexual men and a paedophile, this attraction can be extrapolated to the few billion East Asian women in the world. Then, from this, only gay men and paedophiles are attracted to Asian women can be declared to be `the truth’?

Well, then… Kanazawa needn’t have written an `article’ at all! He could’ve just gathered up 13 people (in addition to himself) who had looked at a Black women they found ugly, extrapolated these `findings’ to all Black women around the world and then declared that Black women being ugly is `the truth’!

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on Tue May 31st 2011 at 07:07:49 Kyou

“So, knowing of 13 Asian women and one Asian child who attracted gay, bisexual men and a paedophile, this attraction can be extrapolated to the few billion East Asian women in the world. Then, from this, only gay men and paedophiles are attracted to Asian women can be declared to be `the truth’?

Well, then… Kanazawa needn’t have written an `article’ at all! He could’ve just gathered up 13 people (in addition to himself) who had looked at a Black women they found ugly, extrapolated these `findings’ to all Black women around the world and then declared that Black women being ugly is `the truth’!”

I’m glad someone realized how ridiculous that statement was.

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on Tue May 31st 2011 at 09:39:23 awryguy

@cute

These men were all 37+ ? I hate to break it to you, but they’re all pedophiles. You’re still a minor, and it soundsl like you’ve been doing this for years.

white guy that only liked asians and some latinos that was a pedophile and what race u think was the 13 year old he had sex with?

Do you have a good reason for not reporting this to the police?

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on Tue May 31st 2011 at 10:41:14 leigh204

@Iris:

So, knowing of 13 Asian women and one Asian child who attracted gay, bisexual men and a paedophile, this attraction can be extrapolated to the few billion East Asian women in the world. Then, from this, only gay men and paedophiles are attracted to Asian women can be declared to be `the truth’?

Well, then… Kanazawa needn’t have written an `article’ at all! He could’ve just gathered up 13 people (in addition to himself) who had looked at a Black women they found ugly, extrapolated these `findings’ to all Black women around the world and then declared that Black women being ugly is `the truth’!

Very well said. Sometimes, it’s hard to believe that some people say the most silliest things because it’s “the truth”. Just saying. 😉

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on Tue May 31st 2011 at 13:09:27 King

Idiocy defeated!
Just saying.

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on Tue May 31st 2011 at 15:53:55 Hannu L

Jebus christ! I’ve been away for some time -greetings to King and sam- it feels so sad that the same racist crap goes on and on…

I didn’t bother to read the ‘study’, because based on the headline alone, any sane person would deem it totally unscientific, just some guy trying to justify his own racistically inclined views of female beauty.

I mean, COME ON! There are as many tastes as there are human beings! Some people block out attractive women because of their upbringing. That’s just subjctive mindf***k by some supremacists. If you just drop down your guards, open up our eyes, you see a world full of beautiful women of all the beautiful charasteristics of the human race.

That said, and I’ve said this before on this site… I am indeed a blond (ok, bald these days), blue-eyed, masculine, intelligent, nordic (Finland) man, who thinks that :

Black women are beautiful, sexy, lovable, intelligent women I’d love to have a family with. And I don’t give a f***k what you think, just don’t come and say it to my face.

I mean, threre is no absolute, scientific way of defining who is beautiful/attractive, who is not. That guy is absolutely bollocks, and anybody with an objective mind agrees.

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on Tue May 31st 2011 at 16:35:32 xxxphantomxxx

@Menelik Charles listen son if no-one else has to provides any links then I assume the same is for myself unless I am told otherwise any son, if I was talking to you I would have addressed otherwise I think you should mind your business.

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on Tue May 31st 2011 at 17:09:20 Menelik Charles

Then you have no evidence against Eurasian Sensation. Simple.

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on Tue May 31st 2011 at 17:14:59 xxxphantomxxx

@Menelik Charles no not simple boy if you look at my post son then you would have known what I was talking about boy, “be quiet” son unless you know quite sure what an argument is about.

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on Tue May 31st 2011 at 17:16:24 xxxphantomxxx

@Menelik Charles maybe just maybe your one of those asian racist that were all talking about, son.

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on Tue May 31st 2011 at 20:19:51 King

Hannu! Where have you been!?? This is unacceptable! (I’ll warrant a woman was involved)

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on Tue May 31st 2011 at 20:23:01 King

Phantom…. let me get this straight. You believe that Menelik is actually an incognito Asian racist???!

What a delicious theory!

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on Tue May 31st 2011 at 20:50:38 Hannu L

King! How are you, my man, the voice of reason in the sea of madness! Oh man, I wish it was about a woman…wait, I did go to UK to meet a Zimbabwean woman, lol

You know how it is, King. There are people like you and me, sam, and some selected few. And then there are idiots.

I came back, because racism is rearing it’s ugly head in Finland as well, and I shall have none of it.

Not now, not ever. I shall fight, my gloves are off and my knucklebusters are on.

Black women are as beauitful as any race (race is a social construct), to my eyes even more so.

I have dated beautiful women, just now I prefer beautiful BLACK women.

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on Tue May 31st 2011 at 21:07:50 Demerera

@Hannu L

(i)I have dated beautiful women, just now I prefer beautiful BLACK women(i)

I wish you every success in finding your soul mate – love, aint nothin like it 🙂

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on Tue May 31st 2011 at 21:09:07 Demerera

Apologies,

Oops, why didnt that work then? Was trying to Italicise??? my words lol

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on Tue May 31st 2011 at 21:15:36 Hannu L

Demera: me too, as I wish you will find your soulmate as well. I haven’t found her yet, but I’ll never let anybody dictate what the color of my soul mate’s skin should be. I am also fortunate to have parents ( WHITE, NORDIC, OMG), who have accepted all my girlfriends despite their ethnicity or skin color.

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on Tue May 31st 2011 at 21:48:48 laromana

Hannu,
Thanks for consistently standing up for the honor, dignity, and humanity of BW. It’s clear we need MORE men of EVERY race to challenge/condemn the ever increasing onslaught of BW HATE in the world.

Hannu L says,
Jebus christ! I’ve been away for some time -greetings to King and sam- it feels so sad that the same racist crap goes on and on…

I didn’t bother to read the ‘study’, because based on the headline alone, any sane person would deem it totally unscientific, just some guy trying to justify his own racistically inclined views of female beauty.

I mean, COME ON! There are as many tastes as there are human beings! Some people block out attractive women because of their upbringing. That’s just subjctive mindf***k by some supremacists. If you just drop down your guards, open up our eyes, you see a world full of beautiful women of all the beautiful charasteristics of the human race.

That said, and I’ve said this before on this site… I am indeed a blond (ok, bald these days), blue-eyed, masculine, intelligent, nordic (Finland) man, who thinks that :

Black women are beautiful, sexy, lovable, intelligent women I’d love to have a family with. And I don’t give a f***k what you think, just don’t come and say it to my face.

I mean, threre is no absolute, scientific way of defining who is beautiful/attractive, who is not. That guy is absolutely bollocks, and anybody with an objective mind agrees.

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on Tue May 31st 2011 at 21:59:19 Hannu L

Laromana: thank you as well, the respect is mutual.

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on Tue May 31st 2011 at 22:39:18 Demerera

@Hannu L

I have my ‘man’ lol. Been together 15 years now!

Its always nice when you have your parents blessing isnt it.

As you are open minded, it hopefully wont be long now 🙂

I was intrigued about you saying that you went to the UK to meet someone – tell me, what did you think of old Blighty?

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on Tue May 31st 2011 at 22:51:13 Hannu L

I’ve been to UK severl occasions, my first time was about 20 yrs ago. And believe me, back in those days I was considered foreign looking… I mean, I had a date with a local girl but she was late and instead of her, her british blond friend was there, not knowing what I looked like, came to me and asked ‘are you Hannu?’ and I said yes, how did you find me? And she said I looked foreign. She was blond, I was blond, my date was blond…but I suppose I was the only natural blond based on their root growth, lol. Not that I cared, but it chuckles me to this day- chuckle!

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on Tue May 31st 2011 at 22:55:38 jorbia

Hey Hannu, long time! If you had come a little bit farther, maybe we would have bumped into each other. lol

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on Tue May 31st 2011 at 23:00:04 Hannu L

Sorry, that was just a sweet memory of an old man…the one meeting I referred to was a woman i ‘met’ on match dot com. I just thought she had the most gorgeous smile ever. I wrote her a friendly little mail, she responded, we talked on Skype, I made her cu…smile, lol. We had an on-offline affair about 6 months, I went to f…visit her and got along well, lol…

But… It is the most difficult thing to find your soulmate, and she wasn’t her.

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on Tue May 31st 2011 at 23:03:35 Hannu L

Jorbia!

How are you, o wise one! Suddenly, it does feel like I’m coming home, and it does gather this strange mist on the corners of my eyes…

How are you, my Jorbia?

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on Tue May 31st 2011 at 23:09:02 jorbia

Hannu, you charmer! Whoever gets you will be a lucky woman! Underneath your charm is a man who warms a woman’s heart!

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on Tue May 31st 2011 at 23:11:50 jorbia

If any woman is looking for a wonderful guy and you’re in Hannu’s part of the world, run to him. He’s a keeper!

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on Tue May 31st 2011 at 23:15:35 Hannu L

Thank you. But I am still lost, sailing the dark stormy seas, and I do not know whether I have the strength in my arms to steer me away from the treaceherous cliffs…

I should write and illustrate a bloody pirate book, right?

Thank you for the warm welcome, I have missed you too, Jorbia.

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on Tue May 31st 2011 at 23:58:46 xxxphantomxxx

@King why are you talking to me did I give you permission to talk to me ?

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on Wed Jun 1st 2011 at 00:00:23 xxxphantomxxx

@un-king also let me ask you this did you think asians are incapable of being racist, either answer just proves my point thought I doubt your intellect is high enough to comprehend my question.

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on Wed Jun 1st 2011 at 02:00:16 King

“@King why are you talking to me did I give you permission to talk to me ?”

Hashahaha!! You are hilarious!

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on Wed Jun 1st 2011 at 02:02:24 King

@un-king also let me ask you this did you think asians are incapable of being racist,

Did I give you permission to ask me a question?

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on Wed Jun 1st 2011 at 02:23:02 Eurasian Sensation

@ Menelik:
our disagreements aside, I appreciate your defence of me.

@ King:
Maybe you need a consent form signed by Mom, I dunno.

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on Wed Jun 1st 2011 at 02:25:30 Eurasian Sensation

@ xxxphantomxxx:
Given the content of your website, you are in no position to lecture anyone else about racism, frankly. Sort your own out first.

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on Wed Jun 1st 2011 at 02:35:18 Menelik Charles

Eurasian sensation,

no problem!

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on Wed Jun 1st 2011 at 02:48:51 Eurasian Sensation

@ xxxphantomxxx:

You are one funny dude.

I’m struggling to find anything on my website that indicates hatred for Africans, or even a mild dislike for them. Meanwhile, your website is one long screed against white people and advocates violence against them.

People are welcome to check both out and make up their own mind.

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on Wed Jun 1st 2011 at 03:01:07 xxxphantomxxx

@Eurasian Sensation yes they are and dude to sass me, AND DON’T DELETE POST OR EDIT THEM, such as the one about race and I Q, I can’t find it now.

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on Wed Jun 1st 2011 at 03:01:31 King

@ Eurasian

Ha ha! I already checked out Phantoms site. I nearly doubled over when he suggested that Blacks should build our own bombs and tanks, then he actually cut and pasted a cross-section diagram of a “Little Boy” style fission bomb.

I tell you, he is truly a genius of comedy!!! If one didn’t know any better, (as we do) one might think that he was a complete and utter slack-jawed fool!!

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on Wed Jun 1st 2011 at 03:28:48 Leslie

Hey Satoshi Kanazawa, Please DO NOT ever set foot in the U.S.! Your close-minded types on never wanted here! Take it from me, a beautiful white woman, get educated and read a science magazine— every single one of us originated in Africa. DNA. Your simply jealous that have been turned down by many educated black women.
Remember, this is a small world and people do not forget haters like you and hitler –2 of a kind.

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on Wed Jun 1st 2011 at 04:17:54 Eurasian Sensation

@ xxxphantomxxx:
“well whatever there is a reason why people have called you a racist on this site”

“people” = you. Let’s be clear here.

No, really. I’m completely mystified. Maybe I have a secret evil twin who is going around hating black people or something, posting anti-African things on my blog and then deleting them before anyone apart from phantom has a chance to see them.

And my post on race and IQ is there for anyone to read. The only way anyone could find it racist against Africans was if they have failed basic reading comprehension at school.

Anyway, back to Satoshi Kanazawa… (he’s wrong, as I’ve mentioned before.)

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on Wed Jun 1st 2011 at 04:22:55 awryguy

@Demerera

To italicize you need to use the triangle brackets that are above the comma and period buttons. I can’t show you what they look like because they seem to be automatically invisible when you post.

Then do this:

(i)whatever you want to italicize(/i)

Except you don’t use the curved brackets.

For bold:

(b)whatever you want to bold(/b)

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on Wed Jun 1st 2011 at 04:25:18 awryguy

@xxxphantomxxx

It’s funny, but the way you call everyone “boy” reminds me of the way I always thought klansmen would talk.

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on Wed Jun 1st 2011 at 04:59:00 The Cynic

@Mel
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2011/05/23/satoshi-kanazawa-why-are-black-women-ugly/#comment-88075

THANK YOU!!! I am guessing this comment got stuck in moderation bc I surely missed this. There are really pretty black girls on TV. Some people were trying to convince me Sidibe was the standard when she is clearly the outlier! Only thing is they are the side roles and I still don’t see how that can lead to a perceived racial beauty gap on screen.

That picture of Tamala Jones. Umm.. DAMN! those… uhhh.. earings? Beautiful. Lol but yea, I don’t watch Castle, but I think I’m gonna have to start catchin some episodes!

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on Wed Jun 1st 2011 at 05:35:05 Hannu L

Just browsed (hastily) through the latest comments…

Eurasian Sensation is nothing but one of the most sensible, educated, well-versed and unracist posters here.

IMHO.

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on Wed Jun 1st 2011 at 07:41:02 abagond

@ Phantom:

I am deleting all comments where you or anyone else calls another commenter “boy”. It is demeaning and not part of a serious argument.

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on Wed Jun 1st 2011 at 10:51:56 WarrenAZ

@chic noir

Blacks have a few, among them are;

TVOne

Code Black Entertainment (wiki em)

Nollywood (3rd largest entertainment market in the world)

Start looking for and supporting entities that provide multifaceted images of blacks instead of ignoring them or making their function/presence seem insignificant. We’ll google for the next Louis or Jordans but black owned/operated companies? I guess they don’t count.

This is a habit that our community needs to break before we export another $1.1 trillion.

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on Wed Jun 1st 2011 at 12:34:13 Hannu L

We should start a thread “Why are black women beautiful and so goddamn sexy?”, and why I want one so badly? 😀

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on Wed Jun 1st 2011 at 13:59:56 Phil LaMarr

Actually, Kanazawa’s thought is well true. But he just can’t spit it out like that. That’s not a kind manner.
Take for example you visit your 90 years old grandmother in nursing hospital and she said : “I just feel i’m not pretty anymore, what should i do?”
And u’ll said : “No grandma, off course you are beautiful, we love you.”(and you start to hug her)
Rather than said : “Well, yeah damn right grandma, you f** ugly. Since you passes menopause your are not longer attractive at all”.

isn’t it? 🙂

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on Wed Jun 1st 2011 at 14:31:15 Eurasian Sensation

@ Phil LaMarr:

No it isn’t.

It’s not a matter of Kanazawa merely delivering “the hard truth” in a unkind manner.

Not only does he treat a very subjective matter (attractiveness) as if it is objective; he also bases his conclusion on the opinion of only a handful of people.

I can’t say whether or not Kanazawa is racist, but he is at very least guilty of bad science.

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on Wed Jun 1st 2011 at 15:26:03 Hannu L

What has the attractiveness of your 90 year old grandma to do with the (underrated) attractivity of back women.

I hate fallacious logic, but for some -maybe literary- reasons I hate lousy metaphores even more. Naturally, they often go hand in hand.

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on Wed Jun 1st 2011 at 22:19:04 laromana

Phil LaMarr says,
Actually, Kanazawa’s thought is well true. But he just can’t spit it out like that. That’s not a kind manner.
Take for example you visit your 90 years old grandmother in nursing hospital and she said : “I just feel i’m not pretty anymore, what should i do?”
And u’ll said : “No grandma, off course you are beautiful, we love you.”(and you start to hug her)
Rather than said : “Well, yeah damn right grandma, you f** ugly. Since you passes menopause your are not longer attractive at all”.

isn’t it?

laromana says,
Phil,
The SCIENTIFIC RACISM/ANTI-BW HATE that are the basis of Kanazawa’s statements make them FALSE not just “unkind”.

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on Thu Jun 2nd 2011 at 11:49:39 Greg

Come on am still waiting for responses. let me guess you are going to delete my comment, because you can stand the truth.

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on Thu Jun 2nd 2011 at 11:52:08 Greg

Cowards,

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on Thu Jun 2nd 2011 at 11:56:41 abagond

Greg:

I deleted all your comments. They were all way off topic. If you want to rant:

1. The Open Thread is open – all day, all night.

2. Or google “topic abagond” to find the post that applies.

3. Or even look in the Index. I have done posts on the White Inventor Argument, black crime statistics, black IQ and most of the stuff white racists so love to talk about.

4. Or write a 500-word post and email it to me and I will probably guest post it if you can keep it civil and slur-free.

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on Fri Jun 3rd 2011 at 22:23:57 Kazuhira Miller

@Menelik Charles

You said Asian men are unfavorable in U.S, and lowering them, and said lot bullshit opinion about Asian men, etc. like as you knew how Asians mainland womens views to ‘Black men’ either huh?
You know what? You want to know the reality how Asians mainland womens views to ‘Black men’? I can tell the truth if you want to. But perhaps it will too hurtful for you and blog’s occupant in here either.
Beside that, i don’t care all of your nonsense opinion. In fact, if you can spare time to type ‘i love Asian men’ in YouTube, you’ll find a bunch of American non-Asian girls ranting about how attractive Asian men are.
And talk about poll, in France’s magazine, Asian men got the most polled for favored husband. Don’t ask the link, because it’s in Magazine.

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on Fri Jun 3rd 2011 at 23:31:58 Menelik Charles

@ Kazuhira Miller,

why don’t you deal with the matter from an Asian-American perspective and stop shooting the messenger:

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on Sat Jun 4th 2011 at 00:23:31 Franklin

@ Menelik Charles

I remember watching that video years ago, and cracking up over how caught off guard I was at the ending. The music and the facial expressions were just too much.

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on Sat Jun 4th 2011 at 01:13:16 Menelik Charles

Franklin,

yep, the humour conceals a real and justifiable anxiety Asian men have regarding their alleged rejection by women of their own race. Oh, yeah, and the ending to this video is something else lol

Maybe something for Prof Satoshi Kanazawa to ponder, and perhaps write about in the future.

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on Sat Jun 4th 2011 at 02:35:27 awryguy

The nice thing about Asian women is that there are more than enough of them to go around. All the foreign men here in China, black and white, barely make an impact in the dating pool. The Chinese guys I know aren’t jealous or insecure: usually they are eager to set me up.

Also, most Chinese girls still date with a developing world mentality. Being tall, fit and foreign scores me some points, but I have no chance against a 50 year-old Chinese man with a successful business in Hong Kong. Money matters in marriage.

Asian-Americans rightly have some concerns with the way their sexuality is manipulated in the American media; and maybe the men have to spend a bit more time at the gym to meet Western muscular expectations (btw, from what I’ve seen many Asian-American men are making that effort). But you’ve only seen the tip of the great wave of Chinese settlement which is coming to American this century. Once they really build their numbers up you’ll probably be shocked at how they break up of the clumsy mold Western culture has set up for them.

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on Sat Jun 4th 2011 at 03:03:53 Kazuhira Miller

@Menelik Charles
That video is old like my grandma lol
You thought a comedy video like that can really represent whole meaning? don’t make me laugh. If you thought so, maybe low IQ clarification of your race is proved enough.

Btw Here, this is the “real” video what it should be like..

see.. there’s like a ton more of it if you want to.
Badly, when i typed ‘i love black men’ in YouTube. There’s no even 1 video that comes from either Asian, White & latino girls. How’s that?

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on Sat Jun 4th 2011 at 03:27:59 Menelik Charles

Kazuhira Miller,

is seems to be you have trouble accepting that your women perceive you in a certain way in terms of your masculinity in relation to white men.

This is neither my problem nor more concern beyond feeling a little sorry Asian men whose only crime in the competitive dating world is to be Asian and male.

I actually have no ax to grind against you, buddy, despite how my approach to the current subject has been misinterpreted, and reacted to.

The point, is, my friend, I have been more critical of the Asian female lack of femaleness (comparing it unfavorably to Black women’s) than I have towards Asian’s men alleged lack of masculinity (scroll up and see).

Now you want to play childish games with videos as though we were in some arcade. Seriously, ask yourself this: how many videos are there of Asian women announcing “I love white men”? Or for that matter of white women proclaiming their love or preference for Black men over white men?

There aren’t that many, dude! And why not? Because actions speak louder than words!

So the videos you present above are not quite saying what you or the video-makers are hoping they’re saying. I mean, consider these questions: which two groups are seen as the least attractive among males and females in America? And which two groups need the greatest ego-boost? And finally, who are they most likely to get it from? Each other, perhaps?

Do you see where this is going, Kazuhira?

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on Sat Jun 4th 2011 at 08:20:02 Eurasian Sensation

@ Menelik Charles and Kazuhira Miller:

“Blacks are unattractive!”

“No, blacks are awesome! Asians are unattractive!”

“No, Asians are awesome! Blacks are unattractive!”

And repeat.

Hands up if you can see what’s wrong with this f***ing pointless debate.

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on Sat Jun 4th 2011 at 13:00:16 Kazuhira Miller

@Menelik Charles
Well, talk about masculinity, US standard being masculine is different to other countries. You can’t apply your or this america’s masculine standard that you proud to this whole world or other countries.
Yes, Blacks are always seen as the most masculine one.
But, doesn’t mean can totally looks perfectly attractive with that.
That “black’s standard” is totally “big no no” in Asia and Europe culture as well(whilst Europe culture still can accept “Asian’s standard”). Contrast in USA, because blacks more like a 2nd occupant of US(the first and the most big minority in US due to historical occurrence) Their community influence US society a lot. That’s why black standard of beauty/masculine is the LEAST MORE ACCEPTABLE in US society than other minorities. And that’s why Asian born America women tends to follow US mainstream standard and the Asian born America men not confidence enough to follow US mainstream standard.(take a not they are not a multi cultured Asian)

PS; black’s standard that i mean in here is ‘a concept for being a good appearance for men or for women from their community’s perspective.’

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on Sat Jun 4th 2011 at 14:29:11 Herneith

Is that you Satoshi?

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on Sat Jun 4th 2011 at 14:45:19 King

Besides, “masculinity” is a shaky barometer to try to predict attractiveness. I mean, if it was only about masculinity then the girls would all be chasing this

instead of this

It’s not a question of the most masculine being the most attractive in the first place, and different cultures judge masculinity based on different criteria. However, Asian guys are masculine according to their own non-Western metric.

If that were not so, then all of these Black women would not be drooling and calling them “gorgeous.”

https://abagond.wordpress.com/2010/05/12/the-ten-most-gorgeous-east-asian-men-in-the-world/

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on Sat Jun 4th 2011 at 14:52:53 sam

This is gettin towards a parody! 😀

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on Sat Jun 4th 2011 at 14:56:29 King

Lol!
Agreed Sam (welcome back)

@ Herneith
“Is that you Satoshi?”

Well, he does have a little ore time on his hands these days…
http://www.colorofchange.org/press/releases/2011/6/39/

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on Sat Jun 4th 2011 at 15:06:25 sam

@kazuhira:

“That “black’s standard” is totally “big no no” in Asia and Europe culture as well(whilst Europe culture still can accept “Asian’s standard”)”.

I’m laughing so hard I’m rippin my pants here!

Kazuhira, if you ever get in to the Europe, do not venture to contry side in any country. You might be surprised that the “european model” of masculinity is not that close of the “japanese model”.

Come to think, do not venture to any working class hood or poorer housinf projects too. You’d get disapointed. White european males are not that much into anime or flower arraignments and silky robes or such.

We are much more into drinking, fighting, shouting, being sour faced, not to talk, some physical passtimes such as carrying stones from one place to another, logging, reindeer herding and of course, shooting animals of all sorts.

And we do not eat seaweed, raw fish other than salmon, rise or poisonous fishes in general. We certainly do not have any use for any poetry, incredible fine swords ( we use logs or clubsm or hammer of axe or the puukko), and we do not like guys who wear suits all the time. Only guys who wear suits are swindlers, politicians (who are the same as swindlers) and/or secret police men. Anybody else is a foreigner lost in here.

We do not wear giant Mickey Mouse t-shirts, Hello Kitty undies or uni sex hair style. We do not use make up. That is for women or actors, who are just like women anyway. When we shave we do not use moisturisers or some cream. We do not go to hot baths, we go to sauna and into a frozen lakes. Or snow.

You won’t see a pikachu bag, hand bag, pink slippers or undies here. We have two kinds of undies. Short and long. Black or white, or something in between.

We may not like black guys but at least they are strong and big, and that is something we understand here.

And black women, if we ever see one, we howl. But that is because we live with the wolves. We can not express ourselves better than that.

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on Sat Jun 4th 2011 at 16:30:39 Kazuhira Miller

lol yeah nice joke. You have no idea at all from what you said. I already expect a nonsense comment like that though. Duh American. Sigh..

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on Sat Jun 4th 2011 at 16:38:06 King

Actually Sam is from Finland

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on Sat Jun 4th 2011 at 16:39:31 xxxphantomxxx

@Kazuhira Miller you like “eurssen” are japs losers in life no wonder why no one wants any of you.

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on Sat Jun 4th 2011 at 17:39:22 Iris

However, I also believe it is wrong for anyone to attack the physical appearance of Japanese and/or East Asian people in response, which I have seen happen on more than one occasion in reaction to his `article’. It only serves to continue the racism and pit two groups of racialised people against one another. Which, I believe, should not be the goals of those upset and angered by what he wrote…

Judging from the recent spat of racism towards both East Asians/Japanese and Black people, it looks like I can safely say `I told you so’.

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on Sat Jun 4th 2011 at 17:51:12 Kazuhira Miller

@King
You should show that to American peoples, since they were lack knowledge of geography. lol

@xxxphantomxxx
Wow, an anime fag learns to talk eh?

Just for clarify from what sam said..

sam said : ” the “european model” of masculinity is not that close of the “japanese model”.”

response : You thought i said Asian and Europe culture had a similar standard for men? if yes, when i said that?

sam said : “White european males are not that much into anime or flower arraignments and silky robes or such.”

response : Don’t make me to put a white european weeaboos videos. Because there’s a bunch of it in YouTube.
Well, a lot evidence of it if you follow what our adolescent’s hobbies these days. And not just merely anime but all Japan’s(actually from other Asia as well) entertainment industries is lot more dominated in Europe society than North America(specially US). So, overall Europe society are more respect and accept overseas’s culture than what US society do.

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on Sat Jun 4th 2011 at 18:26:23 Herneith

We are much more into drinking, fighting, shouting, being sour faced, not to talk, some physical passtimes such as carrying stones from one place to another, logging, reindeer herding and of course, shooting animals of all sorts.

that sounds like a regular relationship I have with my sisters…except the reindeer of course, with us it’s moose. The men tend to drink beer, watch hockey and burp and fart indiscriminatley. In fact they have burping and farting contests as a sport here, for which the contestants can win a case of beer.

I already expect a nonsense comment like that though.

Stop writing nonsense yourself and you will not get such replies.

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on Sat Jun 4th 2011 at 20:05:49 Tyrone

Abagond:

Why the difference in attitude and treatment of blackwomen and blackmen, as it relates to beauty and sexuality? Blackmen are seen as desirable, but not blackwomen. Abagond, What’s the real story? Is it about non-blackwomen removing their toughest competitor out of the way? Is it about non-blackmen wanting blackmen to chase their women, which gives them a convenient excuse to lust after blackwomen themselves? Asian men and whitemen pimp their women more so than other men, Which i’ve never understood anyway. It’s ironic that they’re the two who seem to have the most to say about black female beauty, given that they have no problem pushing their women into the arms of blackmen with no problem. Southeast-Asian women, middle-eastern, and latin whitewomen debunk their hypothesis. Blackwomen know their worth, they don’t have anything to prove, the facts speak for themselves!!!

Tyrone
Don Aquarius

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on Sat Jun 4th 2011 at 20:24:18 King

Is it about non-blackmen wanting blackmen to chase their women, which gives them a convenient excuse to lust after blackwomen themselves?

I want someone else to start sleeping with my wife, so that I will then be able to justify myself chasing after someone else’s wife. This is because I really need an excuse… I mean, I’m immoral, but not SO immoral that I’d do without the excuse of someone doing it to me first!!!

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on Sat Jun 4th 2011 at 22:06:24 Hannu L

King: lol!

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on Sun Jun 5th 2011 at 00:06:39 Ann

Sam.

I loved your comment, especially this part: “…if you ever get in to the Europe, do not venture to contry side in any country.”

Reading it reminded me of this classic scene from “An American Werewolf in London”.

Sticking to the road, and keeping clear of the moors would be very advantageous for one’s health.

“And black women, if we ever see one, we howl. But that is because we live with the wolves. We can not express ourselves better than that.”

Well, I don’t mind a howl or two, and I do like wolves. My neice certainly didn’t as she is happily married to a Norwegian and has a beautiful daughter.

Thanks for making my day.

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on Sun Jun 5th 2011 at 00:32:39 Eurasian Sensation

@xxxphantomxxx:

@Kazuhira Miller you like “eurssen” are japs losers in life no wonder why no one wants any of you.

Are you referring to me? It’s spelled “Eurasian”.

And your obsession with me, and the things that you imagine I think, is becoming increasingly odd. Maybe it would help if you actually, you know, properly read the things I write.

“Japs” is a racially inflammatory term, btw.

“no wonder why no one wants any of you”

Thanks for trying to diagnose my love life, Dr Phil, but rest assured, I gets mine.

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on Sun Jun 5th 2011 at 00:45:35 leigh204

@ Iris:

Judging from the recent spat of racism towards both East Asians/Japanese and Black people, it looks like I can safely say `I told you so’.

This saddens me. Instead of being brought together, as we should, it’s all about so-and-so is this way while so-and-so is that way. Why can’t we just come together with a common goal, huh?

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on Sun Jun 5th 2011 at 03:37:28 King

@ leigh

Exactly. We should all be decrying racism of any stripe, not encouraging it. There are always these feral dogs, who are apt to fight for the bare scraps of favor thrown from the masters table. Growling at the Jews or the Asians or the Blacks… but they are still dogs.

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on Sun Jun 5th 2011 at 06:55:02 Iris

@ Leigh and King

Agreed.

I still don’t understand how anyone can believe it is doing any good butting our heads together.

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on Sun Jun 5th 2011 at 08:15:17 Gen

The Kanazawa article smacks of sour grapes. Did a lot black girls try to flick that mole off his face as a kid? I mean really? Black women as diverse and widespread as we are? Not to mention the face that features overlap since we’re all you know, the same species and all that. That goes to show that a degree doesn’t cure hate. Maybe he’s looking for attention maybe he’s one of these jokers who’s so insecure they have make their ideals into natural fact even if they have to incorporate smoke, mirrors and a lil hocus pocus.

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on Sun Jun 5th 2011 at 15:54:19 CrazyCrazyWorld

@ Kazuhira Miller
KM:Yes, Blacks are always seen as the most masculine one.
But, doesn’t mean can totally looks perfectly attractive with that.

AW have been always seen as the most feminine race, but it doesn’t mean they look perfectly attractive with it.

KM said: “That “black’s standard” is totally “big no no” in Asia and Europe culture as well(whilst Europe culture still can accept “Asian’s standard”).”

Well, coming from a European person (British) and for my experience of travelling and living in different European countries, I do not know where you heard that or seen that but I can assure you that what you stating about “black standard” in Europe is TOTALLY and ABSOLUTELY FALSE and TOTAL BOLLOCKS… And regarding Asia, I do not know as I’ve never been there so… NO COMMENT.

Sam said : ” the “european model” of masculinity is not that close of the “japanese model”.”
KM said : You thought i said Asian and Europe culture had a similar standard for men? if yes, when i said that?”

Here’s where you’ve said it: “That “black’s standard” is totally “big no no” in Asia and Europe culture as well(whilst Europe culture still can accept “Asian’s standard”).

KM said: “So, overall Europe society are more respect and accept overseas’s culture than what US society do.”

Of all your RUBBISH NON-SENSE comments, this is the only one I agree with you.

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on Sun Jun 5th 2011 at 17:13:28 Kazuhira Miller

@CrazyCrazyWorld

“AW have been always seen as the most feminine race, but it doesn’t mean they look perfectly attractive with it.”

response : You wanna bet to compare Asian or Blacks whose the most interracial marriage by world statistic?

“you stating about ‘black standard’ in Europe is TOTALLY and ABSOLUTELY FALSE and TOTAL BOLLOCKS’

response : o rly? so, why blacks got racist oppression a lot in there than any other races? oh wait i know. perhaps because majority of them are Muslim. eh?

“Here’s where you’ve said it: “That “black’s standard” is totally “big no no” in Asia and Europe culture as well(whilst Europe culture still can accept “Asian’s standard”).”

response : lemme bold again. “whilst Europe culture still can ACCEPT “Asian’s standard””
hmmm.. that sam said was “close to” or by meaning “similar to”. I wonder how you can read or comprehend that wrong. Maybe you r too old for this debate. $:\$

“Of all your RUBBISH NON-SENSE comments, this is the only one I agree with you.”

response : at least mine not that non-sense as yours 😉

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on Sun Jun 5th 2011 at 19:55:07 CrazyCrazyWorld

@Kazuhira Miller

WOW…WOW…WOW I can firmly say that you fell in the same hole as that Kazanawa meaning whatever he is called by people, you are too.

KM:You wanna bet to compare Asian or Blacks whose the most interracial marriage by world statistic?”

Believe me you do not want to go down that road…. OK

*First of all those stupid world statistics= American statistics, and happen most of the time in America where they love categorizing anything and everything, in Europe people do not really care what race married more interracially the way it is in America, when it happened it just happened and it’s no one business.

*Second of all, BW have been and still are being insulted and humiliated for their beauty and and are punished for the way they have been created but still are the envy of other race of women and men(excluding you, Kazanawa and other racist people, of course). BW know they are beautiful and they do not need science, media or society telling them that, they do not rush for WM love and acceptance the way AW do who are so complex about their appearance and are queuing up at surgery clinic to edit their face to look more western.

*Third of all instead of spiting all your hate, anger and frustration on BW or Black people in general, you should ask yourself why your women marry WM more than yourself.

KM:”o rly? so, why blacks got racist oppression a lot in there than any other races? oh wait i know. perhaps because majority of them are Muslim. eh?”

You are making fun of Americans ignorance but you fell fully under that same category. The Muslims in Europe are not blacks but Pakistani and maghrebians(people from North Africa, which by the way do not consider themselves black or African for that matter).

So get your facts right instead of throwing your ridiculous “still” rubbish nonsenses in here because…yes, you really are full of nonsense.

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on Fri Jun 10th 2011 at 03:04:50 內酷超人

I can’t believe that Kanazawa being Asian himself, isn’t aware of that most standards are cultural and artificial. This is another attempt, after marquart’s mask, of using the method of science to reinforce an artificial standard.

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on Fri Jun 10th 2011 at 10:05:24 tina

Well, this experience is bittersweet. I think a lot of black women can and should improve their looks and demeanor going forward. I disagree with us having testosterone, simply because our bodies are naturally curvier in zones that require estrogen, also we are plagued with fibroid tumors which occur due to high estrogen levels, so the author of the article was not even close to being factual. I think he was just trying to slur black women. To some degree, I think it is deserved on our part. I often look at black women and wonder why they seem to drag their womanhood through the mud. It’s like, they go out of their way to look bad and to act just as bad as they look. They don’t seem to take pride in being a woman and doing their best to look healthy and elegant. The fat bodies makes it worse because they have a very gross look to them in general.

I am not that way, as I was raised by a very feminine and elegant black woman and most men have always found me attractive, both internally and externally. Although I am critiquing other black women, I downplay my looks significantly, because I don’t like a lot of attention and I would like to have a surprise factor for the man I choose to be with. This doesn’t mean I make myself ugly, I just make myself presentable and attractive on a daily basis, although my “hot” factor is high when I want it to be. I also place more emphasis on beauty than most black women in understanding the impact of nutrition on hair, skin, physique and the glory have having a toned body. I think a lot of black women just aren’t there. They spend their money on horrendously tacky adornments, when the money should be used toward things that bring them to their maximum and that make them radiate health and well-being. This is very unattractive to people (both men and women). I think they need to learn how to work their features in an attractive way. Hopefully, they will get it one day.

Back to the author: What astonishes me is that he never mentioned how acclimatization over long periods affect racial traits and DNA. I’m one who deals with it. I think many black women may act as though they have testosterone, probably because they feel small in relation to the world and think people will take them seriously acting like men. This is a female thing, because I see a lot of women non-black in the workplace take on masculine characteristics when they go higher up on the food chain. It’s not simply black women, but we can tone it down for sure. With that said, I do think black women can be stunning when they work at it the right way. I’ve seen some that I found to be absolutely gorgeous, but these were women who visibly took care of themselves and had class externally and internally.

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on Mon Jun 13th 2011 at 09:57:35 alizwa

Tina, your funny!

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on Mon Jun 13th 2011 at 20:39:30 Hannu L

Not entirely off subject, but I saw a recent documentary where scientific studies showed that the compexion of skin is not so much dependent on the exposure of sun itself, but more to the UV factor. Uv rays aren’t equally spread across the globe, that’s why there are people of varying degrees of complexion even in the same latitude.

I peronally find beauty among all women across the globe.

And like I said previously, Kanazawa is full of bull -and minuscle testiclrs- to claim that bw are least desirable… Just look at the contemporary pop charts: Who are the most popular, sexy and attractive women globally? Beyonce, Rihanna etc… Bw!

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on Wed Jun 15th 2011 at 06:09:47 cute

@Iris

So, knowing of 13 Asian women and one Asian child who attracted gay, bisexual men and a paedophile, this attraction can be extrapolated to the few billion East Asian women in the world. Then, from this, only gay men and paedophiles are attracted to Asian women can be declared to be `the truth’?

Well, then… Kanazawa needn’t have written an `article’ at all! He could’ve just gathered up 13 people (in addition to himself) who had looked at a Black women they found ugly, extrapolated these `findings’ to all Black women around the world and then declared that Black women being ugly is `the truth’!

=============================

I think you have assumed i said my experience was universal truth?

just sayin but 13 is a lot for only one person to be honest and i guess you think i dont have friends? everytime i meet a weird guy i tell my friends and they tell me about theirs too besides that there is also a stereotype in the gay community about gay white men that only like asians aka rice queens.

Everyone assumes they have pedo tendencies i dont know if they say it because the guys they like are asian or because the type of asian they like is short,smooth,bottom (the guy that gets penetrated) and preferably ”submissive in bed”.

and clarifying again, this is just my experience and what i have gathered from talking with my gay friends of my age (mainly ‘latino” but also whites,blacks and asians) btw if you ask an asian girl that doesnt prefer white guys about this topic i think she will probably mention that some white guys are creepy/pedo or yellow fever, similar like to what my asian gay friends say.

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on Wed Jun 22nd 2011 at 02:30:27 Frank Love

We are a society comprised of many easily-offended people. For example, consider the recent Psychology Today article in which journalist Satoshi Kanazawa reported on research gathered by Add Health. In it, he listed the resulting statistics and offered a possible answer to the question this study introduces – “Why Are Black Women Rated Less Physically Attractive Than Other Women, But Black Men Are Rated Better Looking Than Other Men?”. Admittedly, the controversy surrounding this article pretty much passed me by. I had heard about the research, but the subject matter didn’t interest me enough to digest it … until a few days ago when I heard it discussed on the talk show, Insight, by the host, a guest and a bunch of outraged callers. The majority of the callers seemed to be black women. But black women are definitely not the only group of people to get offended over something that was meant to be informative. If you think about it for a minute, you’ll come up with plenty of examples of other races, genders, religious groups, etc, getting worked up over news stories that painted them in a negative light.

The article appeared nearly a month ago, and Kanazawa has since been fired, seemingly because of the backlash surrounding it. However, I respect and admire his willingness to present this controversial information in a logical, research-based, objective way. I am hardly saying that I agree with his conclusions, but if you disagree, attack the research, not him.

The same goes for relationships. How often have your partners (past and current) civilly and respectfully made statements about you that felt uncomplimentary? And how often have you reacted by going off on them? Consider this: When we change the dynamic of the conversation from logical and objective to emotional, we usually do so because:

1) It is a topic about which we are overly-sensitive (like religion, politics, or race, as in the case of Kanazawa’s article), or

2) There is some truth to the information, and we are uncomfortable addressing it.

So, instead of pondering the merits and weaknesses of the statements, we get offended and start an argument – making the discussion about hurt feelings rather than the real issue. But if we keep the argument on the level at which it was presented, and discuss what was said in a rational and substantive way, we participate in an exchange that gets everyone a lot further than lunging into a fight. And even if we don’t ultimately accept what our partners are saying to be true, the ability to have logical conversations will help them want to be open and honest with us over time.

In Stephen Covey’s highly-acclaimed book, The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People, he urges us to always “seek first to understand.” Before you get offended or react, hear your partner out – and make sure that you understand both the point as well as the spirit in which it was intended. Though the information might feel insulting, consider that fact that your partner’s intention might be to be helpful – to inform you, or to help you grow, be happier, or better navigate life and relationships. This possibility is reason enough to allow for a give-and-take discussion. And even if the intention is mean-spirited, and your mate is speaking out of frustration, anger or hurt, there is still a learning opportunity there. For example, you may become more aware of your mate’s perceptions, biases or misconceptions. If you can avoid the urge to react emotionally, you may effectively dispel the aforementioned, and ultimately grow closer with your partner. When this happens, everyone wins.

Appreciating your mate’s willingness to talk to you and present potentially sensitive information will make you a more Powerful Person in a Partnership.

Keep Rising,

Frank Love

http://www.FrankLove.com

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on Thu Jun 23rd 2011 at 01:59:03 Afrolicious

I am an African girl, who grew up in Africa and Europe. I’m very blessed to have been raised in Africa and to know the African culture, because it is the food of my soul and the source of my strength. We were raised to be proud to be black, not to trust white people no matter how friendly and not to be flattered by silly compliments from a very early stage. My mother used to say that deep down they would always see as black and will try to make you feel ashamed of yourself.

In my country we have black, coloured (it’s how we call the mixed) and white people. After the Apartheid system we went through something similar to self rejection. The whole educational system had to be recreated because it reflected the black image as negative and we ourselves used to laugh about our own traditions. Our parents who had suffered during the apartheid system were very strict to us. Today we are strong and proud Africans and belive in the beauty of our blackness. An article like this doesn’t even get me angry. It can never shake my pride because I know who I am and why I am. I feel pitty for this man. Someone to go to the extend of comming up with this kind of research is surly takling self rejection and paranoia (and as they say, paranoia makes you nasty).

I live in Spain right now and the Spanish are pretty racist. They almost get offended if they see that they can’t down size you (especially girls). They’ll manipulate you with compliments like “but you are not that dark, you actually look mixed … you are a pretty brown girl” I tell them that I am black and when they don’t get it, I explain that being black is not about the tone of your skin but an attitude and pride you carry within yourself for what you are. I am not fat, I have beautiful curves. We don’t need anyone to tell us whether we look good or not. Flatterers weaken you and you need to be strong, because a lot of people out there have agendas.

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on Thu Jun 23rd 2011 at 02:30:37 Hey Now

“However, I respect and admire his willingness to present this controversial information in a logical, research-based, objective way. I am hardly saying that I agree with his conclusions, but if you disagree, attack the research, not him.”

Not only has his “research” been debunked, but he’s been uncovered as essentially just another racist attempting to use pseudo-science to make a bigoted point. He has done it before too, especially in regards to race and intelligence.

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on Thu Jun 23rd 2011 at 02:42:58 Menelik Charles

Nice stuff Afrolicious! You make me even prouder to be Black!

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on Fri Jun 24th 2011 at 18:11:54 xxxphantomxxx

hahaha he was fired ,hahaha what does eurasion think about that

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on Fri Jun 24th 2011 at 21:05:30 laromana

tina says,
To some degree, I think it is deserved on our part. I often look at black women and wonder why they seem to drag their womanhood through the mud. It’s like, they go out of their way to look bad and to act just as bad as they look. They don’t seem to take pride in being a woman and doing their best to look healthy and elegant. The fat bodies makes it worse because they have a very gross look to them in general.

laromana says,
tina, I think you need to resist the temptation to internalize ANTI-BW lies, myths, and stereotypes (that may SEEM to be confirmed by SOME BW) and then GENERALIZE them to ALL BW.

There are women of ALL RACES who have negative and positive traits but it’s WRONG to claim that MOST BW ONLY posess negative traits. This lie is at the heart of HISTORICAL ANTI-BW HATE in American media/culture.

It should come as no surprise to ANYONE that, since BW are NORMAL HUMAN WOMEN, their self esteem may have been hurt by the never ending ANTI-BW HATE intentionally directed at them in American media/culture.

BW need other BW/PRO-BW supporters to join them in confronting/condemning/destroying ANTI-BW HATE, NOT BLAMING them for it.

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on Fri Jun 24th 2011 at 22:12:17 Faye

Tina,

I do totally agree with you that black women should carry ourselves better and take more pride in our appearance etc., but they would be picking on us anyway. If you just take a look at how black women have been viewed and treated historically, you’ll see that it has NEVER been positive.

There are “disgusting” women of all races, but you don’t see the media rushing to put the trailer park equivalent of “fat nasty trashy black women” on television or in movies. I’m from Texas and I have seen white and Hispanic women who are also a hot mess, but people don’t want to see them. It’s more of a poor person thing really.

I’m not denying that these women exist and need to get their acts together, but to say we DESERVE it is looking past their motivation to plaster negative images of us everywhere. There is a lot of hatred aimed at black women, and it was there before the premier of Flavor of Love, and would still be there in some form even if we put all the black women who didn’t meet feminine decency standards in etiquette prison.

All black women are hated by people who are racist. It’s racist to go out of your way to find the worst possible representation of a minority and constantly put them on TV. There are women everywhere who make their people cringe, but our women are not seen as people, which is why it makes it more enjoyable for everyone to watch.

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on Tue Jun 28th 2011 at 00:03:05 chico

i love ALL women and find attractive qualities withh all women.

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on Tue Jun 28th 2011 at 07:12:09 craddy

Its not that black women are less attractive its a simple matter of preference you can’t force someone to find someone else attractive the majority is an illusion because opinions vary this man needs funding to keep a plumiting career alive thumbs down beautiful is beautiful ugly is ugly no matter where you go.

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on Tue Jun 28th 2011 at 13:17:34 Eurasian Sensation

@ xxxphantomxxx:

hahaha he was fired ,hahaha what does eurasion think about that

I’m happy. If you have been paying attention, you’d know that I think Kanazawa is full of sh!t.

Not sure why you keep wanting to bring me into this.

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on Thu Jun 30th 2011 at 10:10:54 Thomas Sasser

Psychologically speaking this is a penis-envy complex that has been intermingled (comorbidity) with an unresolved oedipus-complex that is extended through misplaced aggression to the primary object of his affection…..(he has pathological anxiety his penis will not please a black woman because of his penis size in comparison to a black man’s so he cops a sour grapes attitude towards black women so that he doesnt have to confront the real issue….a defense mechanism. The reason it is directed at the woman(misplaced aggression) is that it enables him to address the hate without admitting to this being his reasoning for his mom never having accepted him over his father…(Oedipus-complex)..Because openly displaying the hatred for the black man for “ruining” his chances for sucessfully having coitus with a black female would bring forth the real issue….and subconscious minds job is to protect the conscious mind from being devasted by unreconcilable realizations between reality and the minds inability to deal with it….(it is basically a saftey filter for the mind) so the defense mechaniss automatically prevent the knowledge of the former to be seen by the latter. )……that’s the best way I can describe it in a professional diagnosis and layman’s terms. Hope the second version didn’t offend anyone….but I want you know that I was required in my doctorate studies to research an exact case study of racially motivated sexual aversion/repulsion (by Sigmund Freud) . A healthy male should be attracted to females of any race with certain features(which indicate childbering suitability).This is encoded in all healthy males (even those who are self proclaimed racist). It is, as stated by Freud, a mechanism to ensure survival of the species and is unaffected by environmental factors (In other words this guy’s pathology more serious than a cluster B personality disorder, which can be serious and theoretically produced by environmental factors such as child/parent relations) . Hence I have stated my observations (without being able to perform a clinical diagnosis) of the man who made this statement but I am pretty good at re-recognizing past case study scenarios.

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on Thu Jun 30th 2011 at 16:00:55 Herneith

^^^^^^^^^^^

This is my take; Men are sexually opportunistic and will use whatever machinations that are out there to get a leg over. Whether on a large scale or a small scale, they will do whatever to enhance their chances. If it means pitting groups against each other to achieve this, than so be it. You can do this in an academic way via studies, analysis, and statistics but to name a few. You can be crass about it resorting to profanities and obscene gestures. It is all the same in the end. Hence this Satoshi fellow is only trying to get a leg over, albeit in a long winded gas baggy way.! Have pity on him, someone has to!

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on Thu Jun 30th 2011 at 17:13:46 Hannu L

@Herneith

I do not pity him. If he cannot survive Tars Tarkas, he does not deserve to live!

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on Thu Jun 30th 2011 at 17:19:41 Hannu L

It is indeed pathetic that some guys will go any length (even pseudo-scientific) to justify their preferences. Maybe Kanazawa himself believes the myth of asian men having the smallest penises, and feels like defending his and his compatriot’s sexal prowess.

Every man and woman is an individual. I whish peope were able to stop generalizing and just focus on their personal strengths.

You may love me now.

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on Thu Jun 30th 2011 at 21:38:25 Thomas Sasser

I already said that I was sorry if I offended anyone….but it is what it is….cant change why he said what he said…I can just help others understand why he said it. THE REAL REASON HE WOULD TRY TO UNDERMINE THE MOST BEAUTIFUL WOMEN ON THIS PLANET….was exposed ….sorry if the truth hurt u2…?

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on Thu Jun 30th 2011 at 22:22:16 Hannu L

BLACK WOMEN ARE NOT UGLY.

I wouldn’t be interested in ugly women. Sheesh.

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on Fri Jul 1st 2011 at 13:38:43 Herneith

I do not pity him. If he cannot survive Tars Tarkas, he does not deserve to live!

You human men have nothing on the Martian Tharks! The men have four arms and four…. nevermind!

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on Wed Jul 20th 2011 at 02:54:17 Nzinga Warrior

Are black women supposed to give a d-mn about what some effeminate Asian male think of us? Hell their own women don’t even want their smelly asses. The only reason why white people even tolerate Asians is because Asian men are so ugly that they dont have to worry about their women chasing them down.

He is just mad just like white folks because their birthrates are non-existent. If other races of women are so attractive why the low birth rates? Asians and whites are just attacking blacks to make their own evil selves feel better. My own ‘scientific” research proves that Asian men are pieces of emasculated eunuch sh-t.

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on Wed Jul 20th 2011 at 07:29:31 Iris

cute

I think you have assumed i said my experience was universal truth?

That was more in response to Menelik saying your post was `the truth’ than to you. I am sorry: I should have been clearer.

just sayin but 13 is a lot for only one person to be honest and i guess you think i dont have friends?

So if I had 13 friends who say most of the gay people they know (and the gay people their friends know) are not really gay, would that be enough evidence for me to say most gay people are faking it and don’t really know what they’re attracted to? I don’t think so. As I have said, 13 friends and comments from their friends is not enough to extrapolate to everyone the world over.

Everyone assumes they have pedo tendencies i dont know if they say it because the guys they like are asian or because the type of asian they like is short,smooth,bottom (the guy that gets penetrated) and preferably ”submissive in bed”.

Hang on, I thought you were saying gay men are attracted to Asian women? You’re talking about Asian men here. If, as you’ve said before, being attracted to stereotypically `masculine’ women means a man is secretly gay, does this mean these men you refer to who like Asian men are secretly straight?

and clarifying again, this is just my experience and what i have gathered from talking with my gay friends of my age (mainly ‘latino” but also whites,blacks and asians)

If you’re saying it is just your experience, I have no problem with that, but you seemed to be presenting your experience as evidence that Asian women only attract gay men and paedophiles, which I do have a problem with.

btw if you ask an asian girl that doesnt prefer white guys about this topic i think she will probably mention that some white guys are creepy/pedo or yellow fever, similar like to what my asian gay friends say.

I don’t know what yellow fever has to do with being gay, but I don’t need to go ask an Asian woman: I am one.

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on Wed Jul 20th 2011 at 11:02:54 Eurasian Sensation

@ “Nzinga Warrior”:

ah, so your only comeback against Kanazawa’s racism against blacks is to be racist against Asians. Classy.

Just a reminder to all: Kanazawa is one man. HE IS NOT A SPOKESMAN FOR THE WHOLE F***ING ASIAN RACE. So some of y’all need to stop thinking like he is.

Asians and whites are just attacking blacks to make their own evil selves feel better.

So perhaps you are just attacking Asians to make your own evil self feel better.

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on Sun Aug 21st 2011 at 11:20:23 Lila

Why are so few people pointing out how unattractive Satoshi Kanazawa is himself and how unattractive asian men are to most women compared to other races? Even if its true what position is an unattractive asian man like him to be to make such arrogant claims? Asian men are by far the losers in the dating and mating scene. Asian women always run off with white men given the chance and white women, black women always overlook asian men. Asian men have it by far the hardest. I wonder why he doesn’t do a study about why asian men are less attributive to women? Probably to arrogant and sexist. Im a white women btw, he just pisses me off. He makes up studies based on his own opinion and doesn’t assess data properly, he twists it to suit his own views. None of his research is that credible when you examine how it comes to these conclusions but he is so arrogant he probably just thinks people cant handle his opinion. Im not being racist to asian men, Im just being honest, its not racist to state objective point of view of peoples phsycial appearance if it is based on actual observations in society or scientific data as long as you dont attack individuals. And Im only attacking him as an individual coz he feels so arrogant to do so many studies about womens physical appearance when he is not so hott himself.

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on Sun Aug 21st 2011 at 11:52:49 Menelik Charles

@ Lila,

here’s what i located on YouTube:

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on Sat Sep 3rd 2011 at 01:44:05 Lola

I have to laugh at some people’s comments. First of all, latinas are a mixture of white, aboriginals from central and southamericans, asians and black. Not a degree of blackness, lol. I think latinas are beautiful because they encompass features from all those races.
Personally, I think black women are very unattractive. I am sorry, I seem to share this believe with many. I think they look manly, they have very unattractive features: too curvy shapes, overweight, big round noses, too big lips, bad attitude, bad hair.
Having said this, I can assure you I am not racist in any way

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on Sat Sep 3rd 2011 at 04:32:56 King

Are you a Lesbian Lola?

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on Sat Sep 3rd 2011 at 05:05:46 laromana

King says,
Are you a Lesbian Lola?

laromana says,
LOL! Great comeback to the HATER troll, King but I don’t think they’d claim her.

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on Sat Sep 3rd 2011 at 06:43:41 sam

@king: 😀

I think Lola is in reality little white guy named Brett and just got turned down by some black girl in the net dating. He is just wenting his frustration.

If she is who she says she is, then she has to get a crash course on movie stars, super models, athlete stars etc. many of whom are un-f***ing-believable beautiful black women who will make the socks roll around even on the feet of the most staunchest klans man.

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on Sat Sep 3rd 2011 at 06:45:17 sam

Sorry about the F word there, just got little excited thinking about some of those black beauties.

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on Sat Sep 3rd 2011 at 07:01:37 Franklin

@ Lola

Personally, I think black women are very unattractive. I am sorry, I seem to share this believe with many.

Being part of a hive mind and sharing their opinions doesn’t automatically legitimize everything/anything you say though. Do you know what the fallacy “Argumentum Ad Populum” is?

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on Sat Sep 3rd 2011 at 07:17:42 King

@ Sam

You’re probably right.

That’s why I asked if Lola was a Lesbian, because Lola sounds EXACTLY like a guy.

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on Sat Sep 3rd 2011 at 07:29:30 King

I feel forced to once again post Nina Keita in response to Lola’s vacuous assertions. (or maybe I just wanted to see her again, eh Sam?)

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on Sat Sep 3rd 2011 at 12:12:28 sam

@king: me too, any excuse is ok with me 😀

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on Sat Sep 3rd 2011 at 15:50:52 King

Nina is a Black African directly from Ivory Coast:

Is she “very unattractive?” No
Does she look “manly?” No
Does she have a “too curvy shape?” No
Is she “overweight?” No
Does she have a “big round nose?” No
Does she have “too big lips?” No
Does she have a “bad attitude?” No
Does she have “bad hair?” No

So What is Lola really talking about?

But Lola is not racist… of course.

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on Sat Sep 3rd 2011 at 22:20:03 Lola

That woman from the video is, indeed, beautiful. Some are. There are always exceptions to the rule, right? And they usually look good after lenghty hair and makeup sessions.
I just watched Chris Rock’s documentary “Good Hair” and started talking with friends about how we really feel about black people. Everybody agreed that it is “scary” to talk to black people, or even share the same sidewalk! specially in the US. I live in western Canada and the black people we see around here are either from Africa or lived here all their lives and do not speak like the american ones. I honestly don’t find them attractive and my opinion it’s just that, an opinion, but most of my friends felt that way but were too cautious expressing it. You don’t have to agree with me!

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on Sun Sep 4th 2011 at 00:13:12 leigh204

@Lola:

You’re Canadian? Well, you do not speak for me or the other Canadians on this blog. Black women ARE beautiful.

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on Sun Sep 4th 2011 at 00:50:34 Lola

I never said I was speaking for other canadians, you take that out of nowhere. To even say that black women ARE beautiful is just ridiculous. Try saying something that makes sense!

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on Sun Sep 4th 2011 at 00:54:46 FG

To tell you the truth, I’m never sold on these arguments about certain racial groups being more attractive than others. I feel that there is just way too much variability in attractiveness within racial groups to easily make such assessments.

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on Sun Sep 4th 2011 at 01:04:47 FG

I suspect for many guys, preferences with respect female beauty are much like preferences for food. You generally prefer that which you grew up with and were exposed to most, but sometimes this becomes boring and you feel the need to branch out into less familiar, more “exotic” offerings.

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on Sun Sep 4th 2011 at 01:22:45 King

@ Lola

You sound very masculine. Are you a man?

Also, do you consider Asian women to more beautiful and feminine than White women, in general. You know—less many looking, more petite, softer voices, not overly curvaceous or “chunky” not as loud and brazen as White women? Just a curiosity.

Anyway, it sounds like you and your friends are suffering from a certain form xenophobia. You have managed to encompass most of the world into the “Us” side of up your “Us vs. Them” scenario with Blacks being the outsiders, in this particular case. Maybe I can help you… but in most cases, the insanity has become so deep rooted that the victim can never be truly cured of it. You see, they begin to believe that there is really nothing wrong with them, and that their hatred and judgement of “the other” is completely normal, reasonable, and shared by most other people. But let me assure you, you are a very sick person who desperately needs to be cured.

Now, how many Black faces do you think there are in the world? To give you some idea as to where to begin, the population of the Africa continent was projected to be 1,022,234,000 in 2010 (verify at Wikipedia). Of course, those aren’t all Black people, but there are many more Blacks spread around the world in places like the Caribbean, and the Americas. For example, the Black population in the Unites States is estimated to be 308,745,538, based on the 2010 census. The entire population of Canada is 34,571,000 (according to census 2011) So just in the unites States, there are many more Black people than reside in your entire county.

Given that fact, what percentage of all of those Black people do you think you have you personally either seen, or known? I’ll wait for your answer.

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on Sun Sep 4th 2011 at 01:41:00 leigh204

@Lola:

I never said I was speaking for other canadians, you take that out of nowhere. To even say that black women ARE beautiful is just ridiculous. Try saying something that makes sense!

What you say is true, you weren’t necessarily speaking for other Canadians, but the fact that you’re Canadian, what an embarrassment. And, yes, black women ARE beautiful. It makes perfectly good sense; something that you’re not.

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on Sun Sep 4th 2011 at 01:49:48 leigh204

@proudchocolategirl:

You’re so right! Alrighty, moving along. 🙂

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on Sun Sep 4th 2011 at 03:18:25 Parfum Bleu

When did I land in Bizarro World?! While I have nothing against women with very slender/willowy figures, I still never thought I’d see the day when being curvy would be associated with looking like a man!

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on Sun Sep 4th 2011 at 10:19:36 Franklin

@Parfum Bleu

Especially when the ideal shape for white woman for the past few thousand years (and up until the British model Twiggy exploded) USED TO BE a curvy woman.

(Looks at old paintings/depictions of “beautiful white women”)

…yeah…my Hypocrisy Meter just @#$%ing exploded.

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on Sun Sep 4th 2011 at 22:34:18 Claire Davis

I never thought the day would come when a Japanese would speak on beauty. Asians, by and large, was never known for good looks. A few white sympathisers might have married some and make them feel welcome and for that they have forgotten that their flat faces, tiny slanting eyes and bony features, combined with their flat backs and non-existent bottoms, completed with their turned backs hands are quite reminiscent of the monkey family. No wonder they were not considered at all for any beauty prize.

With all due respect to the Chinese, you would never hear a Chinese utter such nonsense. Kanazawa was rebuffed by a black woman and has taken it quite hard. I know black women can be cutting when they are dismissing a man but to add to it by making yourself a fool and being laughed at by your chinese counterpart should, if i were you and a man coming from a people who loves to speak of honour, commit sepuke or suicide by gutting. Gut yourself sir and get over the rebuff.

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on Sun Sep 4th 2011 at 23:59:07 King

@ Claire Davis

In other words what Satoshi Kanazawa did was wrong, but turning around an making the same kind of racist generalizations against Asians is O.K.

I mean after all… if an Asian crackpot says something bad about Blacks, then there should be no problem simply targeting the looks of all Asians.

What you have said isn’t any more universally true than the claptrap people have said about Black women upthread. It’s all equally ignorant and equally ugly.

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on Mon Sep 5th 2011 at 11:30:04 leigh204

@proudchocolategirl:

what makes kanazawa ugly is not his looks…it’s his attitude…that’s what truly makes him ugly…

AMEN to that!

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on Thu Sep 8th 2011 at 17:26:45 Lola

@ King

“Anyway, it sounds like you and your friends are suffering from a certain form xenophobia. You have managed to encompass most of the world into the “Us” side of up your “Us vs. Them” scenario with Blacks being the outsiders, in this particular case. Maybe I can help you… but in most cases, the insanity has become so deep rooted that the victim can never be truly cured of it. You see, they begin to believe that there is really nothing wrong with them, and that their hatred and judgement of “the other” is completely normal, reasonable, and shared by most other people. But let me assure you, you are a very sick person who desperately needs to be cured.”

It may sound like that, but that is not what I meant. I am not xenophobic. I do believe asians are more pleasant visually, that’s all.
I have no problem with having friends from any ethnic group. In fact, I do not care either for social/economical status…and I am definately not “very sick”
What I said was a candid comment, and a very honest one. Most people will agree with what I said, although they may never say it. Heck, I wouldn’t be caught saying that in the presence of stranger. Just so you know…

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on Thu Sep 8th 2011 at 20:12:45 King

Lola, what you are doing is taking your own very limited exposure to Black people and using it to make blanket judgements about them. You then go on to confirm and encourage these opinions among your friends and acquaintances. You have met less than 0.000325% of Black people yet you feel qualified to have opinions about people who you know next to nothing about aside from stereotypes.

That makes you quite sick, and a person of low morals. Luckily, you’re becoming a bit of an anachronism in the western world, but moral deviants, such as yourself, should be offered help for your condition.

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on Sat Sep 17th 2011 at 02:39:25 Ebony.

I know everyone has their own preferences, and there’s someone for everyone…………but in terms of the mainstream media/society in the developed countries, Asian and White women/models are goddesses. And Lations/Native americans come in at a CLOSE second……but black women, come in at a FAR third.

This has always bothered me….but it’s the truth.
I’m a young black girl, and i just so happen to be very attracted to asian men , white men, and native american men. But I always feel like they’ll never give me the time of day, because i’m black. Which is really upsetting……
I think so many black women are so beautiful, along with the asians and whites and latinas……….but when i talk to my guy friends about which celebs they think are hot, if i say lucy lu, or camera diaz, or angelina jolie, or Oliva Wilde, or eva longoria, they go “OH HELL YEAH, THEY’RE HOT AS HELL!!” but if i say Beyonce, halle berry, vivica a fox, ashanti, whitney houston, etc. they almost ALWAYS say the same freakin thing, which is so bizarre…and SOOO frustrating!; “Oh, they’re not ugly or anything, they’re JUST NOT MY TYPE!” <— aka, BLACK IS UGLY!

It's so frustrating…….and i'm happy as me, but i feel like to be viewed as hot by society, and to attract the kind of guys i find attractive [long haired rock dudes], i'd have to be a size 2, and asian/white!

It's so no fair….and it hurts my heart.

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on Sat Sep 17th 2011 at 04:53:21 Parfum Blue

Ebony, I will say without a doubt that if an attractive black woman was to come on to most of those society-has-got-them-by-the-short hairs boys, they’d be google-eyed and salivating like rabid dogs.

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on Sat Sep 17th 2011 at 18:22:16 King

Ebony, you have to understand what men do.

You see, men have a kind of sport called “girl watching.” It’s essentially a spectator sport, where male couch potatoes imagine the entire world to be one huge beauty pageant, in which all of the females are prancing around just waiting to be examined and scored by them (the male judges).

In this way, most men consider themselves to be connoisseurs of female beauty. They are art critics of the sculpture of female form, tasters of the womanly vintage—washing it over their sensitive palates before spitting it out and rendering their verdict.

Because it is a matter of tasting and judging, it doesn’t matter how fat, bald, stupid, short, ugly, or unsuccessful, the men who presume to do the judging are. And what’s more, they are not trained in any universal standard of measure. It’s just a bunch of guys arguing and judging based on their own assumed biases and preferences, that can be effected by anything from their mothers to their first school crush, or their porno collection.

Here’s a basic rule to go by. The more time a guy is willing to sit on the sidelines and handicap the celebrity beauty battle, the less likely it is that he is a real participant with real women. It’s like watching guys arguing over which mannequin is the department store is the finest, while ignoring all of the real women walking down the isles—who is the real dummy?

That is NOT how the real world works. In reality, the men and women in the world who are considered to be truly visually gorgeous is relatively small. If I was going to guess, I might say 10% across all races (others would say much less). Therefore, the idea of getting out a score card and trying to judge them, one against the other, is rather foolish. The truth is that the vast majority of men will NEVER even get the slightest chance with any of the very women whom they are turning up their noses, and downplaying—no matter what their race.

And finally, in the real world it’s not really ALL about visual beauty, it’s about attractiveness. For example, I consider Kim Kardashian to be visually beautiful, but she’s also whiney and spoiled, and slutty, and now highly plasticized. From what I’ve seen of her in interviews, I don’t think I could put up with her personality for very long at all. THAT’s attraction (or in this case the lack of it.) Now of course, it doesn’t really matter because I’ll never meet KK, but I use her only to make the point.

Real people are attracted by a whole lot of things about a person, and I can tell you that if you are smart, pretty, considerate, take care of your body, and have a sense of your own style and fashion, that you will never be at a loss for male suitors of any color. I have several Black female friends who date mostly White rocker guys, because they are into that culture. They have no problems finding boyfriends at all.

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on Sun Sep 18th 2011 at 00:58:51 Lola

@ King
You have no right to judge me. You have no idea who I am, nor you know what I look like or what kind of “morals” I have, Your comments about my “morals” and my being a “deviant” just makes me shake my head. You try so hard to sound intellingent and boy, do you ever love to have the last word! But you don’t realize that you sound like a bitter hypocrite, somebody with double morals that condems people that don’t share your opinion and help strenghthen stereotypes. so “anyone that think female black women are ugly” are racist, right? How about if the same people think black males are “attractive”? Are they still racists?
You didn’t like my opinion, well…Too bad! Live with that, and live with the fact that many people share my thoughts and there is nothing you can do to prevent that, besides reinforcing the stereotypes about black women, because you must be one, right?.
The topic was physical attractiveness, that was IT. So, please stop using the racism card any time you can, it is getting old.

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on Sun Sep 18th 2011 at 02:13:32 Herneith

You have no right to judge me.

He can do so if he wishes. You have no right to demand so if you wish to bandy ‘rights’ about.

Your comments about my “morals” and my being a “deviant” just makes me shake my head.

Don’t shake your head to hard, your brains will fall out.

You try so hard to sound intellingent and boy, do you ever love to have the last word!

At least he tries which is more than could be said for you.

But you don’t realize that you sound like a bitter hypocrite, somebody with double morals that condems people that don’t share your opinion and help strenghthen stereotypes.

If anyone is stereotyping, it is you. You see ‘Lola’, opinions are like a##holes, everyone has one.

“anyone that think female black women are ugly” are racist, right?

In a word, yes they are. How can you say a whole group is ugly? A white racist can, that’s who. If the shoe fits, wear it. Come on, admit what you are!

You didn’t like my opinion, well…Too bad! Live with that, and live with the fact that many people share my thoughts and there is nothing you can do to prevent that, besides reinforcing the stereotypes about black women, because you must be one, right?.

Too bad for whom? I doubt King gives a rat’s arse for opinions such as yours. However, he may feel compelled to respond to your posts for entertainment purposes. If King is a woman than I am Gidrah the three headed space monster! As for reinforcing stereotypes, it is you who are doing so by claiming that all black women are singularly ‘unattractive’. Stormfront is calling dear!

So, please stop using the racism card any time you can, it is getting old.

What racism card? You are holding all the aces. Besides, there’s nothing new under the sun, same s**t different toilet bowl is all. You aren’t much different than the whites old. The only thing new is how you relate your racist garbage and even that is not original. You are a typical white Canadian. I will give you this though, you are polite, another stereotype about Canadians. Well they haven’t met me!

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on Sun Sep 18th 2011 at 04:10:47 King

You have no right to judge me. You have no idea who I am, nor you know what I look like or…”

Oh, the delicious irony. 🙂
Didn’t you say the following:

…talking with friends about how we really feel about black people. Everybody agreed that it is “scary” to talk to black people, or even share the same sidewalk!

So, I have no right to make judgements about you, based directly on the things that you say? Yet, you have the right to make judgments about entire races of people based on a vote of your friends? Is that it? The terrible hypocrisy… the sheer and utter hypocrisy of it!

This is a question after all of your character, your morals, your sense of justice and fairness. I feel I have no other choice but to declare you an immoral person, with a warped or damaged sense reality. You are sick with a kind of deficiency that has left you devoid of the usual level of human empathy response.

so “anyone that think female black women are ugly” are racist, right? How about if the same people think black males are “attractive”? Are they still racists?

Yes. Anyone who makes a categorical statement about a large group of people whom they have never even seen (all but an insignificant and unscientific sampling) is a racist. That is what racism is. You don’t have to belong to the Ku Klux Klan to be a racist.

How about if the same people think black males are “attractive”?

That is an equally racist statement. “Racism” is not dependent upon whether it’s ideas are complimentary or derogatory. Racism is a belief that there are significant inherent differences between various human “races” rather than a single human race.

You didn’t like my opinion, well…Too bad!

You’re not stating an opinion. An opinion would be based on adequate information, what you are stating is a bias.

I’m truly sorry that you are a racist. I wish that you weren’t, and that you were instead, a normal and well-balanced person. But it is not my fault that you are immoral.

You may find this helpful in your journey to recovery.

http://thebipolarview.blogspot.com/2006/12/racism-and-mental-illness.html

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on Sun Sep 18th 2011 at 04:34:26 Herneith

Here’s a side effect of white racism;

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/04/us-europe-mental-illness-idUSTRE7832JJ20110904

If approximately 40% of Europeans are mentally ill, I’d put the North Americans of European descent at 70% and that’s a modest estimate. The Europeans are supposed to be less ‘racist’, so they get less estimates! Lola, go take your lithium!

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on Sun Sep 18th 2011 at 09:58:54 Levertis Steele

Black women are ugly to you because your evil minds have been shaped by Satan to believe so. Black women are ugly because society has said it so much until that is how people perceive them.

Someone said many times that black men were hot. Now, some white women, and others, run after them as if they are about to become extinct.

People get breast implants because they think their natural breasts are ugly. Brainwashed minds are plentiful. I could go on and on. God made us, and He does not make junk. Any questions? Ask God.

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on Sun Sep 18th 2011 at 11:03:34 eco

@Herneith
“Here’s a side effect of white racism;”

No. That’s a consequence of the fact that drug companies want to make more money and are broadening the definition of mental illness. These days even regular jerks and socially awkward people are considered sick.

P.S. The fact that you equated “European” with “white” amuses me, but that is a topic for another discussion.

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on Sun Sep 18th 2011 at 16:33:20 Herneith

No. That’s a consequence of the fact that drug companies want to make more money and are broadening the definition of mental illness.

Well blow me down! I didn’t realize that chronic depression, dementia, and anxiety were the result of being socially dysfunctional and not mentally ill. You learn something new every day.

These days even regular jerks and socially awkward people are considered sick.

Yes, but the article doesn’t refer to jerks and ‘socially awkward’ people, but people with real mental disorders.

P.S. The fact that you equated “European” with “white” amuses me, but that is a topic for another discussion.

I am happy to provide you with amusements. Perhaps that’s a mental disorder in and of itself!

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on Sun Sep 18th 2011 at 18:33:19 Lola

@ king
you really can’t hold yourself back, can you, you REALLY need to have the last word…how amusingly pathetic!
I actually do feel sorry for you. You can call me racist if you want, and you can also make “judgments” only because you think I did aswell. Fine, you are more than welcome! You win the “I had the last word so I must be right” prize
And keep expressing your rabid comments here, these forums are made for people like you.
Enjoy!

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on Sun Sep 18th 2011 at 19:23:54 King

…these forums are made for people like you.

What do you mean, “PEOPLE LIKE ME????”

What a disgusting Racist!!!

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on Sun Sep 18th 2011 at 19:31:18 diebolt

LOL, Lola makes racist comments about how scary blacks are and tries to differentiate between good and bad blacks (which is racist in and of itself) but then gets mad when people call her a racist. Damn degenerate.

For the record, that group of friends you talk about sound like some pretty pathetic people. You all had a little roundtable discussion about the evil negroes in America? How endearing…and sad.

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on Sun Sep 18th 2011 at 19:49:03 Herneith

@ king
you really can’t hold yourself back, can you, you REALLY need to have the last word…how amusingly pathetic!

No, your comments are amusing. This is a blog, people can choose to respond or not; much as you are doing now.

I actually do feel sorry for you. You can call me racist if you want, and you can also make “judgments” only because you think I did aswell.

Racist! Well didn’t you make judgements claiming that black women are ugly? Oh, I get it, that is an opinion!

And keep expressing your rabid comments here, these forums are made for people like you.
Enjoy!

What kind of ‘type’ are you to be responding I wonder?

I bet you are a very ugly and overweight black woman!

I only bet on the horses, not on what some anonymous poster may look like. I am Canadian and I know that of which I speak, I assure you. You must be from moose crotch somewhere out West by the tone of your posts. There aren’t to many black folk out there. Gee, I wonder why?

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on Sun Sep 18th 2011 at 20:03:41 King

What do you mean, “PEOPLE LIKE ME????”

@ Hernieth

You must be from moose crotch somewhere out West by the tone of your posts

LOL! 🙂

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on Sun Sep 18th 2011 at 20:22:28 eco

@Herneith

“Yes, but the article doesn’t refer to jerks and ‘socially awkward’ people, but people with real mental disorders.”

The article doesn’t, but the study (that inspired the article) does. Shyness is “avoidant personality disorder” and anger “intermittent explosive disorder”. I bet there is a fancy name for my laziness too.

You should be careful. Being Passive-aggressive is a disorder too. 😉

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on Sun Sep 18th 2011 at 22:08:51 Herneith

You should be careful. Being Passive-aggressive is a disorder too.

That’s something I’ve never been accused of! But then one has to blame their defects on something external eh? Why not pathologize weird behaviour? Anyhow, I figured the article was a snippet of the original study. One person’s lunacy is another person’s sanity as it were.

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on Mon Sep 26th 2011 at 22:21:40 Ebony

Lol Parfum! Yeah, i don’t know about that……i wish.

Well i guess you’re right, but i have yet to feel that way King.
I’m not drop-dead gorgeous, but i’m not ugly….i’m not overweight….and i always hear from my guy friends, who are mostly white, say crap like “Oh thanks, you’re so smart!” or “wow you love football, and beer?? HOW AWESOME!” or etc.
But that doesn’t appear to help me but so much.
I mean i’ve had a couple of bf’s who have been white long-haired rocker dudes[hehe], but nine times out of 10, all i get from the guys i’m attracted to is “lets be best of friends” -_- *sigh*

I just honestly think “It would be easier if i was just any other race but black” a lot of times…..and that’s sad. -_-

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on Mon Nov 7th 2011 at 06:46:05 Levertis Steele

I wonder if people who ask these questions have a mirror.

Consider these questions:

1. Why are Asian men said to be emasculated?

2. Why are Asian women preferring white men?

I suppose every race is downsized in some way. Society is sick.

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on Mon Nov 7th 2011 at 07:03:53 Levertis Steele

It is amazingly laughable how black men came from the most hated to the most handsome among men and white women being the most beautiful among women. The media portray them together every day. If the media would portray a donkey as a preference over a man, some women would be riding around on their husband-donkeys grinning proudly and changing their donkey shoes and feeding them oats for breakfast to show that they are submissive mares. The human mind is weak and very prone to brainwashing.

Someone in this strand said that black women are dissed by day and summoned by certain men at night. Black women who are doing this need to stop it. Respect yourselves enough to do better. Do you want to be thought of as looking better in the dark? Think.

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on Mon Nov 7th 2011 at 07:21:28 Menelik Charles

Black woman are simply the best…in my humble opinion:

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on Mon Nov 7th 2011 at 13:00:36 vindicator

Ebony said:
”I know everyone has their own preferences, and there’s someone for everyone…………but in terms of the mainstream media/society in the developed countries, Asian and White women/models are goddesses. And Lations/Native americans come in at a CLOSE second……but black women, come in at a FAR third.

This has always bothered me….but it’s the truth.
I’m a young black girl, and i just so happen to be very attracted to asian men , white men, and native american men. But I always feel like they’ll never give me the time of day, because i’m black. Which is really upsetting……
I think so many black women are so beautiful, along with the asians and whites and latinas……….but when i talk to my guy friends about which celebs they think are hot, if i say lucy lu, or camera diaz, or angelina jolie, or Oliva Wilde, or eva longoria, they go “OH HELL YEAH, THEY’RE HOT AS HELL!!” but if i say Beyonce, halle berry, vivica a fox, ashanti, whitney houston, etc. they almost ALWAYS say the same freakin thing, which is so bizarre…and SOOO frustrating!; “Oh, they’re not ugly or anything, they’re JUST NOT MY TYPE!” <— aka, BLACK IS UGLY!

It's so frustrating…….and i'm happy as me, but i feel like to be viewed as hot by society, and to attract the kind of guys i find attractive [long haired rock dudes], i'd have to be a size 2, and asian/white!

It's so no fair….and it hurts my heart.''

So f***ing what. If society don't find black women attractive then f**k it.

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on Wed Dec 14th 2011 at 23:28:27 loltard

lol @ king posting that Native Americans are Asian immigrants. By that logic everyone is African. No wait, Eukaryotic-Americans. Natives constitute a different race and demographic than Asians. Natives possess phenotypes uniquely American. Big difference.

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on Thu Dec 15th 2011 at 03:38:01 laromana

Ebony says,
”I know everyone has their own preferences, and there’s someone for everyone…………but in terms of the mainstream media/society in the developed countries, Asian and White women/models are goddesses. And Lations/Native americans come in at a CLOSE second……but black women, come in at a FAR third.

This has always bothered me….but it’s the truth.
I’m a young black girl, and i just so happen to be very attracted to asian men , white men, and native american men. But I always feel like they’ll never give me the time of day, because i’m black. Which is really upsetting……
I think so many black women are so beautiful, along with the asians and whites and latinas……….but when i talk to my guy friends about which celebs they think are hot, if i say lucy lu, or camera diaz, or angelina jolie, or Oliva Wilde, or eva longoria, they go “OH HELL YEAH, THEY’RE HOT AS HELL!!” but if i say Beyonce, halle berry, vivica a fox, ashanti, whitney houston, etc. they almost ALWAYS say the same freakin thing, which is so bizarre…and SOOO frustrating!; “Oh, they’re not ugly or anything, they’re JUST NOT MY TYPE!” <— aka, BLACK IS UGLY!

It's so frustrating…….and i'm happy as me, but i feel like to be viewed as hot by society, and to attract the kind of guys i find attractive [long haired rock dudes], i'd have to be a size 2, and asian/white!

It's so no fair….and it hurts my heart.''

laromana says,
Ebony, I can totally relate to how you feel and I've felt the same you do for MANYyears.
My long term, first hand life experience as an attractive BW who's attracted to WM/Other NON-BM (and who's also experienced the continuing effects of ANTI-BW HATE in America) is that American men ( of ALL RACES) are BRAINWASHED to be ass—-s to BW SOLELY because they're BW.
Even when an American man may find you attractive/want to date you, he'll allow his fear of possibly losing status for being with a BW (ANTI-BW COWARDICE) STOP him from pursuing a relationship with you.

I think it's great that you're not allowing ANTI-BW HATE/the assholery of how MOST American men mistreat BW affect how you view yourself.
I think that the MADNESS of ANTI-BW HATE in America must be CONFRONTED/CONDEMNED/DESTROYED by PRO-BW American men before BW in America are treated with the SAME dignity/respect as NON-BW.

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on Sat Jan 14th 2012 at 13:00:29 luciana

I think this “scientist” should be ashamed of his ignorance. Both perceptions of beaty and race depend heavily on one’s cultural background, and IF you have enough brains you are able to rise above whatever prejudiced views were imposed on you as a child. For example, I live in Brazil, were people can be (surprisingly) very racist. As a child I was told by some ignorant and prejudiced people a lot of lies, such as black people were ugly, had rough features, their lips and noses were too big etc; I was told caucasians had a disgusting washed-out color ( frequent nicknames for caucasians who show up in brazilian beaches are ghost, roundworm, and shrimp when they turned red from exposure to sun); I was told asians were ugly as well because they were supposedly flat-faced, had short spread noses and slit-eyes, and were yellow and short. Also there’s a lot of prejudice agains fat people. So as a child I believed you had to be Barbie to be pretty (but a nicely sun-tanned Barbie, not white). Eventually I grew out of it, thank God, and I learned that envy, fear and hatred are extremely important in building up prejudice, which ultimately influences how you look at people and perceive them. This Kanazawa man has a lot of growing up to do, too.

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on Sat Jan 14th 2012 at 17:05:22 indigoblu

I’ve never heard of such foolishness before in my life. In his quote about how others see blacks and how blacks see themselves— both are subjective. Nothing about physical attractiveness is objective, nothing. He should really find a dictionary and compare and contrast the two words subjective and objective to get a better understanding because he clearly missed the mark.

Also, where does he get off with testosterone having anything to do with physical appearance, save hair growth? Testosterone mainly affects the reproductive system and mood/behavior. This isn’t “bad” Science, he obviously has no concept of science. He’s talking about things have have nothing to do with each other so that the ignorant would listen. I’m not even sure if the part about black people, in general, having more testosterone is true but even if it were, his argument still would make no sense in regard to physical attractiveness.

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on Sat Jan 14th 2012 at 17:07:54 indigoblu

….with his mushroom head. 😐

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on Sat Jan 14th 2012 at 17:46:09 indigoblu

Just naturally, if a black woman did have more testosterone than say a white woman, and she is not actively trying to build muscle mass, the only affect you would likely see from it is hair growth in probably places women don’t want hair growth but it’s not something that can’t be easily taken care of (if that were any measure of physical attractiveness)–not some huge muscle mass in comparison to a woman who has slightly lower levels. Testosterone helps build muscle but if you aren’t utilizing it for that purpose, you won’t see those affects of it because it’s not like a black woman, even with higher levels than a white woman, would have the an equal amount or even close to the same amount as any male would.

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on Sat Jan 14th 2012 at 21:58:34 Satanforce

Nothing about physical attractiveness is objective, nothing. He should really find a dictionary and compare and contrast the two words subjective and objective to get a better understanding because he clearly missed the mark.

That’s rubbish. Various at various universities and clinics, from the neurophysiologists at Johns Hopkins University to those at Stanford University have shown that the human race has developed an objective sense of beauty based upon mathematical symmetry. Look at the below picture.

You will of course notice, that due to black women’s higher testosterone levels, they lack the necessary facial symmetry required for beauty, never mind the fact that most black women are too thick or overweight to be considered attractive mates. Everyone knows that black women, especially African-American women, have been dragged through the mud by mainstream media. But that has nothing to do with Black women having higher testosterone levels as a result of an evolutionary adaptation to the rigors of slavery. We can see the effects of the higher T-Levels in black women by their overall greater aggressiveness, hairiness and larger muscle mass, not to mention their athletic ability (Williams Sisters, Caster Semenya).

Black women need to look within themselves, both figuratively and literally, and fix what is broken within them, so that they can heal

This isn’t “bad” Science, he obviously has no concept of science. He’s talking about things have have nothing to do with each other so that the ignorant would listen.

Oh , I’m sorry. I didn’t know that you were a leading evolutionary scientist teaching at the London School of Economics. Sorry about that, my mistake.

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on Sat Jan 14th 2012 at 22:11:45 Demerera

Oh , I’m sorry. I didn’t know that you were a leading evolutionary scientist teaching at the London School of Economics. Sorry about that, my mistake.

And you are Satanforce?

I’m sure there are some black women that ‘revert to the type’ as asserted by this article but by the same token, there are white women who fit this mould too. Ask anyone what they think the build/demeanour etc of a Russian female athlete is and i’m pretty sure it will be exactly the same as the ‘generic’ description of a black woman…..

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on Sun Jan 15th 2012 at 00:38:22 indigoblu

@Satanforce

You said:
“Various at various universities and clinics, from the neurophysiologists at Johns Hopkins University to those at Stanford University have shown that the human race has developed an objective sense of beauty based upon mathematical symmetry.”

This really reminds me of the many times white people have tried to take things, in which, they consider their own “unique” traits and characteristics that they think mirrors just about everyone in the white race and say, “because I am…. it is better/perfect/right/complete”…utter BS.

There are so many people and cultures in the world that would literally crap on the words I quoted from you because it’s simply not true for them, which is why all this silliness about beauty being objective is bogus. Beauty is relative, and just because one has decided to attach numbers and apply geometry to what they consider beautiful doesn’t make it any more objective because it’s simply not, no matter how you spin it. Everyone does not view beauty the same way in America and around the world–that’s common knowledge……again, there is nothing “exact” about it.
Just because the white mainstream media tries to push it’s image of beauty on everyone does not make it objective—you need to take that to the trash can, where it belongs…….

I don’t, nor does anyone else, have to be an “evolutionary scientist”—which in his case is merely a title and nothing more—anyone who has taken a biology class, even half seriously, would know that this man is talking nonsense.

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on Sun Jan 15th 2012 at 00:56:45 Satanforce

black women that ‘revert to the type’ as asserted by this article but by the same token

It is not so much reverting to the type as simply obeying their genetic imperative. Anyone who has spent enough time around black women to be able to objectively gauge their behaviour (like Black men) will be able to relate their aggressiveness and greater amount of hair per surface area.

Ask anyone what they think the build/demeanour etc of a Russian female athlete

No, they would be merely rehashing the stereotype of Russian women being masculine ie The Olga. I suggest that you read this article to understand the that stereotype.

https://abagond.wordpress.com/2011/03/09/stereotypes-about-russian-women/

And you are Satanforce?

You proved my point from the very start. Why are you so angry at me? I am just stating the facts! Again, do not blame me, but self-reflect to see the source of your anger , pain and bitterness. Only you make yourself right.

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on Sun Jan 15th 2012 at 01:00:33 indigoblu

Moreover, you have to realize that what a lot of people consider beautiful is due to a type of conditioning– what they are shown/taught to be beautiful and not necessarily their own, true ideology of what they consider to be beautiful is maturely developed without some que taken from various sources on what is beautiful and in the U.S.–that’s usually through the media.
Just as in another country and culture, heavier women are considered more attractive, or those with bigger backsides or something else that someone like you may consider very unattractive..that can never register on an objective scale, ever. What the people in these various cultures consider to be beautiful is due to their own conditioning as well because that’s what they have been taught is beautiful and is valued in their society..

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on Sun Jan 15th 2012 at 09:29:17 Satanforce

his really reminds me of the many times white people have tried to take things, in which, they consider their own “unique” traits and characteristics that they think mirrors just about everyone in the white race and say

Your statement is very racialist. And untrue, as Kanazawa is Asian, never mind that your statement assumes that Blacks or people of other ethnicities do not work at universities.

heavier women are considered more attractive, or those with bigger backsides or something else that someone like you may consider very unattractive..that can never register on an objective scale

You are confusing a sexual fetish for a subjective standard. Just as an attraction to fat chicks, hairy women, BDSM, and four-legged creatures are very rare in mainstream World culture, so too is an attraction to black women.

I don’t, nor does anyone else, have to be an “evolutionary scientist”—which in his case is merely a title and nothing more

Dr. Kanazawa is one of the pioneers, and a best selling author. He is also a pioneer in the field of Evolutionary Psychology, one of the fields that has been able to find human universals that exist throughout all cultures, including beauty standards. Also the work in the field of evolutionary psychology is having more than a positive effect on our cultural vocabulary as well as our social policy.

attach numbers and apply geometry to what they consider beautiful doesn’t make it any more objective because it’s simply not, no matter how you spin it.

Firstly, it’s facial symmetry, which uses Group Theory and Eigenfaces (Linear Algebra). Secondly, you sound like some kind of postmodernist with the whole “Beauty is relative” schtick. This is something that should be left to science, our best way of knowing about the world, which is what men like Satoshi Kanazawa are working on diligently to find out.

At least, advertisers are aware of the scientific results that are obtained from studying Black omen in their natural habitat.

http://dimewars.com/flashmedia/secureflvplayer.swf For Hip Hop News & Entertainment at DimeWars.Com

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on Sun Jan 15th 2012 at 11:30:43 Demerera

You proved my point from the very start. Why are you so angry at me? I am just stating the facts! Again, do not blame me, but self-reflect to see the source of your anger , pain and bitterness. Only you make yourself right.

I proved your point at the start yet you chose to answer my angry and outraged questions first and foremost? I didnt think I could evoke that much fear through cyberspace 🙂

BTW, my questions have proved nothing – I dont need to self reflect because the description does not apply to me. Fortunately, whilst it is drilled into people that X is beautiful and that all women want to look like her, there are many people who do not get sucked in and make their own mind up about such matters.

So, whether or not you and this geezer find BW attractive or not matters very little in the grand scheme of things. Thing is though, you could just as easily go on line and find loads of articles and publications that contradict what this bloke has said, but you chose not too.

Its a shame that people hide behind so called ‘factual’ articles to back up what is in fact their own personal opinion.

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on Sun Jan 15th 2012 at 11:45:47 Demerera

@satanforce

Just been reading through past posts and I think its fair to say that I dont really get where you are coming from. Unless you have the driest and wackiest sense of humour going I cant believe that you would agree wholeheartedly with the results from this article.

Just trying to get my head around things I guess.

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on Sun Jan 15th 2012 at 11:48:28 indigoblu

@Satanforce

.Like most people with nothing to say, you dance around the subject…..with all that you typed, you’ve said absolutely nothing. Amazing. Nothing you’ve said and no link that you’ve posted proves that beauty is not relative. Lol. and as Demerera just said and I’ve indicated as well.. you are simply trying to pass opinion as fact. It doesn’t work, sorry.

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on Sun Jan 15th 2012 at 13:10:28 Satanforce

OK, I really need stop chuckling to myself, and get some sleep.

You are confusing a sexual fetish for a subjective standard. Just as an attraction to fat chicks, hairy women, BDSM, and four-legged creatures are very rare in mainstream World culture, so too is an attraction to black women.

You’d think the above would be a dead giveaway.

OK, Kanazawa got his Two Minutes Hate, and now his career is over. Which is why a statement like this can be made

So, whether or not you and this geezer find BW attractive or not matters very little in the grand scheme of things.

Even after me typing this:

Also the work in the field of evolutionary psychology is having more than a positive effect on our cultural vocabulary as well as our social policy.

See, Kanazawa and his rather odd opinions were never the problem. Evolutionary psychology is. Or rather, its popularised version. See how men are divided into alpha, beta and omega, as if we were domesticated pack animals. How the supposed behaviour of cavemen thousands of years ago is used to excuse rape. Or in this case, to justify the rants of an “intellectual” skinhead.

The Black blogosphere was able to debunk this specific set of claims, but evopsych is now so ingrained in our culture, that is thought to be gospel. But the fact remains that many of the tenets of pop evo-psych continue to be circulated not just throughout pop culture, but as part of social policy.

What no blogger, that I have seen so far, has done, is to demonstrate the fact that social policies, influenced by Evolutionary Psychology have exacerbated the racist policies against people of colour in the US as well as amongst people of colour themselves

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on Sat Feb 11th 2012 at 14:16:18 precluder

Well!
people needn’ t go defensive when someone says they are less attracted to black women.

Its like this. I am a Hindu (India). I belong to a caste in which most of the people pretty much have Caucasoid skull structure. Naturally I like the girls who are racially similar but preferably my own race. So I get attracted to certain kinds of white girls, North Africans, Middle Easterners etc. My perception of ‘ugly’ or ‘good looking’ is biased because of my ethnicity.

So conduct a survey with all white guys in the sample space, U Get Opinions which are colored by their own perception of beauty subjective upon the fact that they are Caucasians

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on Sat Feb 11th 2012 at 15:00:53 abagond

@ precluder

Right, but Kanazawa was not presenting this as “the preference of most white men”, like it was some poll on Maxim or OkCupid, but as scientific fact! And he used his position as a scientist at Psychology Today to push it as such.

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on Fri Feb 17th 2012 at 00:54:57 Mariam Abdul

I am a Black girl but I have to agree with Satoshi Kanazawa. As a lover of beauty, I must say that most African women are God’s physical joke, and to talk about beautiful African women is a hit and miss thing. In general the lips are too thick, the bottoms are too big and bordering on the vulgar, the noses are too large, the breasts look like they were designed to feed thousands of babies, the eyes are globulous most of the time, not to mention the excessive sweating, the garrulous voices that bark at mobile phones at bus stops, and the tendency to be fat due to an intolerance to carbohydrates which, unfortunately constitute the main part of our diets. And I won’t even start on the hair which is God’s personal curse to the African woman. How many of us have to wear wigs because our own hair keeps breaking for some incomprehensible reason? Look at the number of African girls who are sporting “straightened” hair instead of a proper Afro? But, as in all things, we Africans have managed to find beauty in our excessive features. And because even God is not completely stupid he made us ugly Black women naturally cheerful and bubbly to compensate for our physical shortcomings. The prototypes that I have described are mainly to be found in West Africa with Senegal and Mali being an exception. For one to talk about African beauty and grace, one has to go to Eritrea, Somalia and Ethiopia. But then many of these women have Arab blood running through their veins. It is as though God in his cruelty has bred Black women to satisfy men’s need for raw sex and to pop out as many babies as possible like breeding machines, especially in Africa where to have lots of children is to share in God’s glory. Never mind that the woman is not beautiful. Who needs beauty for the purpose of procreation? The face doesn’t matter, only the body does, and the White men who captured those women during the times of slavery understood it only too well and used African women as sex objects on their ships, to God’s delight.
Black is not always beautiful, and African women are desired at night by cowards because they are considered to be no different from inflatable sex dolls. But they are not to be taken home to Mother, unless they look like Waris Dirie and have not been mutilated either physically or intellectually.

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on Fri Feb 17th 2012 at 01:16:27 Nom De Plume

@Mariam Abdul:

I feel sorry for you.

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on Fri Feb 17th 2012 at 02:13:52 Mariam Abdul

To Nom de Plume

Thank you, but I don’t need your pity. Superior and analytical minds never do. We are here to spit out the truth, and the truth always hurts. It is for you that I feel sorry.

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on Fri Feb 17th 2012 at 05:56:19 Satanforce

Black is not always beautiful, and African women are desired at night by cowards because they are considered to be no different from inflatable sex dolls. But they are not to be taken home to Mother, unless they look like Waris Dirie and have not been mutilated either physically or intellectually.

Thank you. Thank you!!! I have been saying this same thing for years, but to now avail from black women. Every damn bit of science shows that black women are not as evolved as other women, due to their simian genetics and higher levels of testosterone.

But, as in all things, we Africans have managed to find beauty in our excessive features. And because even God is not completely stupid he made us ugly Black women naturally cheerful and bubbly to compensate for our physical shortcomings.

Black women are cheerful and bubbly? Is that a joke?

It is as though God in his cruelty has bred Black women to satisfy men’s need for raw sex and to pop out as many babies as possible like breeding machines, especially in Africa where to have lots of children is to share in God’s glory. Never mind that the woman is not beautiful. Who needs beauty for the purpose of procreation? The face doesn’t matter, only the body does, and the White men who captured those women during the times of slavery understood it only too well and used African women as sex objects on their ships, to God’s delight.

Finally!! A black woman who understands her role and station!!

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on Fri Feb 17th 2012 at 11:34:27 Mariam Abdul

To Peanut

You say that other women pay to have Black women’s excessive features. Have you heard of Jocelyn Wildenstein? They call her Frankenstein’s widow. She’s an example of what happens when one tries to acquire thick black lips, and she’s put off a lot of White girls I know, who were eager to have their lips pumped up as well. Kim Basinger was self-conscious about her big lips and considered surgery for years to have them refined, so to speak. So trying to compete with us is not exactly pretty. And you must be very naive if you think that God is a good guy who has Black women’s best interests at heart. Tell me, why is it that of all the races we are the ones who have to fight all the time for everything, be it for our “identity”, for our survival, for respect, for our freedom, for our heaven’s knows what else? I do come from Africa and the other name for Africa is Hell. I have seen the real face of God there. We are the manure that he dumped on earth not expecting it to be so tough and survive. He doesn’t deserve to be your God because he’s not worthy of what your ancestors have had to put up with to survive his hatred of us.

To Satanforce

Don’t get too carried away, you son of the Hades. We might be rough dough that still need to be worked on physically, but we are not at all stupid in general. For your information it was Patricia Bath, a Black woman, who created a laser-based device to perform cataracts surgery. She’s a pioneer in the field of ophtamology. The list of Bright African Women is endless and I could go on but I shan’t. Go do your research before you open that mouth of yours which I suppose is a toothless white mouth, or a white mouth with brown teeth in it, as usual.

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on Fri Feb 17th 2012 at 12:36:39 Nom De Plume

Let’s stop feeding the troll. Her comments have the M,O. of an unhappy, insecure American non-black female whose goal is to get people all worked up while gaining mounds of attention. She also apparently loves to blaspheme.

This will be my last response regarding the troll. I need to move away from here before a bolt of lightening comes down from heaven and zaps the you-know-what out of her.

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on Fri Feb 17th 2012 at 14:13:40 Mariam Abdul

To Nom de Plume

You obviously are someone who can’t read. I said that I come from Africa, do you even know where that is? In any case thank you for removing your person from here. I am surprised you came back at all. It is no good encumbering the topic with your God-fearing comments if you can’t keep up with the conversation.

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on Fri Feb 17th 2012 at 16:15:02 Satanforce

Tell me, why is it that of all the races we are the ones who have to fight all the time for everything, be it for our “identity”, for our survival, for respect, for our freedom, for our heaven’s knows what else?

God evolved black women into the monkeys they are to be able to survive in the harsh African environment. Thar is why they are neither beautiful or delicate. they have to be fearsome to defeat the dangerous animals and Arab slavers who would kidnap them for only God-knows-what-reason.

These physical attributes, are obviously undesirable for the modern, technological world, which will lead them to become extinct in a few generations.

For your information it was Patricia Bath, a Black woman, who created a laser-based device to perform cataracts surgery. She’s a pioneer in the field of ophtamology (sic). The list of Bright African Women(SF. note an obvious oxymoron) is endless

Yes. And a stopped clocked tells the time correctly twice daily. The rest of the time though….. And Dr. Bath is Trinidadian- American, not African. Nevertheless, just as some gorillas can learn sign language, and some parrots can recite Shakespeare, so too can a black woman be taught the base mechanical arts.

I do come from Africa and the other name for Africa is Hell. I have seen the real face of God there.

Now that you are in America, that should change as there are more than enough white people to change your mind as to what God really looks like.

Go do your research before you open that mouth of yours which I suppose is a toothless white mouth, or a white mouth with brown teeth in it, as usual.

Yup, there’s that good ol’ black african woman bubbly cheerful personality.

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on Fri Feb 17th 2012 at 16:42:10 abagond

I hope this is all some kind of joke…

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on Fri Feb 17th 2012 at 17:38:42 Truthbetold

@ abagond

No I think they’re serious.

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on Fri Feb 17th 2012 at 18:56:18 merrimay

You know, in case this is not a joke, at least some people’s true colors are starting to show… I can’t say I’m surprised…smh

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on Fri Feb 17th 2012 at 19:09:25 leigh204

Hi pretty lady (merrimay),

Long time no see. How’re you? Hope all is well. Satoshi Kanazawa may be an evolutionary psychologist, but he proves that being “intelligent” doesn’t mean smart.

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on Fri Feb 17th 2012 at 19:24:34 merrimay

Ya know Satanforce, the lesson here is to be careful about picking allegiance with people that seek to denigrate black women. It comes right back at you…’Son of the hades’….lol
Say, aren’t you Jamaican? The same people that are of West African lineage?? And you side with this..this….I won’t even say it…

Mariam, are we to presume you are from one of those East African countries?? As a Southern African I try to stay away from this East/West African beef..but this…you have really sunk low here.

Peanut I wouldn’t be surprised if she is indeed a black woman, I have certainly been around her sort, their hatred of West African women knows no bounds.

Hi Leigh 🙂
Busy travelling hon…Botswana, South Africa, heading to your region this year!

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on Fri Feb 17th 2012 at 19:27:02 Satanforce

mariam abdul,

again I say you are not a Black woman

No, she’s most definitely a dark butt. However, you can see that she uses a fair amount of bleaching creams to improve herself, as well as hair straighters/weaves and hazel contact lenses. I am always pleased to see one of our African sisters engage in a quest for self-improvement!!! At least she’s trying to better for herself – unlike some people….

You know, in case this is not a joke, at least some people’s true colors are starting to show… I can’t say I’m surprised…smh

BWAAHAHAHAHHHAAAAAA!!!!!!!

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on Fri Feb 17th 2012 at 19:38:20 leigh204

@merrimay:

Hi Leigh 🙂
Busy travelling hon…Botswana, South Africa, heading to your region this year!

Ooh, travelling, huh? Hmm. Which reminds me, I need to travel more. Where in Canada are you heading to? 😀

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on Fri Feb 17th 2012 at 19:52:29 Satanforce

our evil comments are conniving, two-faced, just as a serpent. How dare you put up a facade of positivity by making nice comments about Black women on MY BLOGS,

satan force,

you’re absolutely insane, I can’t even believe you brought your azz onto MY blogs and left comments, I’m going to go delete them right now and probably ban you from all of them. If abagond has any sense, he’ll ban you too.

Oh God she still hasn’t caught on!!!! I hope she doesn’t scroll up, that’d give it away..oh damnnit, I’m thinking out loud again…..

OK, back in character.

Say, aren’t you Jamaican? The same people that are of West African lineage?? And you side with this..this….I won’t even say it…

My grandmothers father on my fathers was Scotts-Irish, so that redeems me from the rest of my Asante and Igbo lineage. Andyes , I will side with any Black woman who wishes to improve “her”self, or even a Sammy Sosa.

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on Fri Feb 17th 2012 at 20:10:16 merrimay

Whoa, Peanut, I am a black woman, an African one at that. WTH????

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on Fri Feb 17th 2012 at 20:20:22 Satanforce

you’re still mostly west african descent, so that’s no excuse.

Phenotypically, yes, but that is only on a superficial level. While I may be the same complexion as Wesley Snipes, genetically, I am as European as they come.

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on Fri Feb 17th 2012 at 20:20:48 abagond

@ Peanut

I think Satanforce is mocking Miriam Abdul. Reread his comments.

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on Fri Feb 17th 2012 at 20:31:26 Satanforce

Also, as I am sure you realise, many Jamaicans suffer from a genetic condition called re-vitiligo, thus, as a result, my true complexion doesn’t “shine” through. So it is not that I am black – just diseased. Furthermore, instead of reading standard brand history, you should do what Agabond recommends and read alternative history. I suggest that you look through black history from what is called a Ruckusian point of view. You will find that a lot of the questions you have will be more easily answered

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on Fri Feb 17th 2012 at 20:37:03 merrimay

Joking or not I think he went quite overboard, what with gorilla/monkey this and simian features that. Quite indulgent in fact, this Abdul character didn’t go as far as far as likening black women to animals 😦

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on Fri Feb 17th 2012 at 20:58:00 Satanforce

Another epic trolling, by Satanforce. I will take my leave, for now.

Joking or not I think he went quite overboard, what with gorilla/monkey this and simian features that. Quite indulgent in fact, this Abdul character didn’t go as far as far as likening black women to animals 😦

You have to understand that I am a fundamentally bad person, and that I am beyond redemption. Not a problem for me, as quite frankly , I’ve gotten over it. You just not need to watch out for that that type of writing from me.

but you need to be more clear when you are mocking someone. I’m not the only one who was confused.

That would completely defeat the purpose. I need my daily LULZ you know!

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on Fri Feb 17th 2012 at 22:00:42 merrimay

Leigh,

Mid to end of this year:)) am thinking Vancouver:)

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on Sat Feb 18th 2012 at 20:00:41 ToStudyTheCaveWookie

LOL@Satanforce and his epic troll against Miriam (who is NOT a Black woman).

Nicely done.

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on Sat Feb 18th 2012 at 20:06:09 DarqBeauty

I just finished reading Satanforce’s comments. You are a MASSIVE troll!! LOL

Abagond, your site attracts some reaaaal interesting people!

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on Sat Feb 18th 2012 at 20:28:55 JN

How dumb.

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on Sun Feb 19th 2012 at 06:58:28 Satanforce

@darq.

Been trolling this one even earlier – https://abagond.wordpress.com/2011/05/23/satoshi-kanazawa-why-are-black-women-ugly/#comment-108160

Joking or not I think he went quite overboard

@merrimay

Going overboard is the point of effective trolling. Something as obviously false as “simian genetics” and comparing a world-class ophthalmologist/biomedical engineer who invented a LASER capable of cutting a human cornea within a micrometer to a gorilla should either be taken as a joke or rantings of a madman (or both.)

Are you mad at me because of what I had posted on the Black Man White Woman post? Maybe you should read what I said again, using just the control + f and searching for your name.

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on Sun Mar 4th 2012 at 09:45:28 Spokker

For all men criticizing him, how much of your porn collection consists of black actresses?

I thought so.

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on Sun Mar 4th 2012 at 10:16:12 abagond

Speak for yourself.

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on Sun Mar 4th 2012 at 11:04:10 Demerera

@Spokker

For all men criticizing him, how much of your porn collection consists of black actresses?

I wasnt aware that black actresses also ‘doubled up’ as porn stars too!

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on Sun Mar 4th 2012 at 12:26:16 Demerera

@Bulanik

Have you noticed the great availability these days of lip injections, breast and butt implants, genital waxing and surgical alteration of female sex organs?
YES

Isn’t pornography instrumental in these increasingly popular beauty practices?
YES

Have you noticed as well, the way children dress is more and more sexualized as an indirect byproduct?

Unfortunately yes. G string knickers and the like *SMH* mind you, as parents the onus is on us to ensure that children dress appropriately and are not carried away with media interpretation of what is ‘cool’ or whatever.

Throughout time little girls have played ‘dress up’ and we all knew someone who looked a little older than their peers (I went round with a girl who thoroughly enjoyed the fact that she drew gawps from grown men with her bright red lips and short grey school mini skirt) but IMO it should really be seen for what it is, sexual deviant males wanting to see young girls dress inappropriately to fuel their own nasty sexual fantasies. I despair when I see young girls wearing revealing clothes.

I sound really prim dont I 🙂

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on Wed Mar 14th 2012 at 00:42:11 LR

@Blanc2-White and Asian women pay a lot for cosmetic surgery, fast to get thin, etc. Same thing with Middle Eastern and Hispanic women because they come from authoritarian cultures. Black women, on the other hand are usually fine with the way they are.

Even women don’t like black men, either. They think they’re gay or something. And of course, even female sexual deviants love to see young boys wear revealing clothes as well as speedos to the beach and pool just to fuel their slutty sexual desires but will get harsh sanctions for it, compared to male ones.

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on Wed Mar 14th 2012 at 01:39:04 destructure

I criticized this study on my blog when it came out last year. I think most people missed the interesting points about this study. The first is that the study was based on the opinions of only three people. Three people? Seriously??? Now, why should anyone consider the opinions of a ridiculously small sample over any other randomly selected group of three?

Hey Larry, Moe & Curly – Check out those cankles! And what do you think of her butt? Is it too big? What about her nose? Yeah, I think she’s wearing a weave, too.

That’s not science. That’s a joke. In case you can’t tell I’m thoroughly disgusted. Not by the idea that some groups might be more or less attractive than others. But by the idea of a serious academic publishing a blog entry in his field with such a flimsy basis.

Indeed, I’m so put off that I’m reluctant to mention what I consider the most interesting tidbit to come from this study — black men and women both rated themselves much more attractive in their self-assessments than members of the other groups surveyed. I’ll let others draw their own conclusions as to whether that demonstrates self-confidence or merely self-delusion.

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on Mon Mar 19th 2012 at 06:25:52 My Perspective

Mariam Abdul…if you really are a Black woman with this mentality, I pity you. Some Black women possess the attributes that you speak of but there are unattractive women in every race. I hope you will learn to love yourself and stop belittling all Black women. Not all Black women are fat, loud, and obnoxious.

Peanut…not all Black Americans have white ancestry as it is often claimed. And for some that do have admixture, it isn’t recent. I’m not trying to be rude, I simply wanted to point that out.

Anyway, I agree with some of the comments here. I believe that it comes down to people imposing bullsh*t standards of beauty on others instead of simply accepting that everyone is different and no one is inferior based on race or physical appearance.

It’s fine if somebody has a preference for white women or Latinas or whatever, but one can have a preference without making disparaging statements about an entire group, in this case Black women.

As a very light-skinned woman of mixed race (black/white), I’ve had to contend with racism in my own way. Some people assume that light-skinned women don’t deal with racist beauty standards, but we do…it’s just that we tend to be less outspoken about it. I’ve been told that my hair is too nappy, my skin is too light, I’m ugly, I’m too fat, too thin, etc.

I have to deal with people constantly telling me I’m not pretty enough, I’m not white enough, not black enough, etc. I do have some proximity to whiteness because of my skin color and my facial features but my hair is decidedly kinky. I’m only 5’1″ with hourglass curves. I’ve been called “fat” because I have a womanly shape…I’m not built like a two by four. I have rounded hips, thighs, and a behind that fills out my blue jeans nicely. I will never be on the cover of a magazine. I will never be on a runway or catwalk. I will never be voted the most beautiful woman in the world. That’s fine with me.

This article doesn’t make me feel bad about myself because Satoshi Kanazawa really isn’t in the position to tell Black women anything. He isn’t what I would call good-looking, if you catch my drift. Clearly some people agree with him when it comes to Black women being unattractive. Oh, well…what can you do? 😉

@Spokker…while it is true that the majority of porn actresses are white or Asian or Latina, I believe this is changing. The standard of beauty in America is definitely still a white woman, but there is lots of porn featuring Black women.

And as Bulanik said, there is a difference between beauty and sexiness. Pornography is about playing upon male fantasies. Not all porn actresses are beautiful. They simply know how to work with what they do have, which helps them to be more appealing no matter what niche they fall into. Most of the porn actresses now are very artificial-looking, while some of the actresses from past decades were naturally gorgeous…they didn’t look “plastic”.

But the porn industry is still very racist. All things being equal, a young thin white blonde (whether natural or bleached) is the image often reinforced as “hot”. Lots of men automatically feed into it because they are conditioned to view this image as the gold standard of beauty, without ever questioning why.

I also notice the absence of women of color as cheerleaders, for instance when I’m watching sports on TV. I rarely see a cheerleader who isn’t white. I attend lots of sporting events with my husband and I notice the same trend. I have to wonder…is it because most people think Black women aren’t pretty enough to be cheerleaders?

I guess they occasionally sprinkle in a few brunettes and one token Black girl for “diversity” sometimes, though.

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on Thu Mar 22nd 2012 at 02:20:03 Adeen Danica Mckenzie

This reminds me of why I was so insecure for all this time abot my looks:hair, nose and lips. Why guys in my Chemistry class pay more attention to the White girls than Black and Latina girls. Why society values straight hair, pale skin and light eyes as the ideal of a beautiful woman. Why Black men are going to White women and other type of women that fit the beauty standard better instead of marrying us Black women. Why a lot of people think Black women are ugly and unattractive. Why Black women are the least desirable unless they fit that stupid ideal:Pretty for a Black Girl
Sure, I have gotten over my insecurities and I know that I fit that Pretty for a Black Girl sort that people think of when they see an attractive Black girl. But I know a lot of Black women are still insecure when they think of their looks and hair. That stupid blog saying Black women are ugly is what a lot not if most people think of Black women. So sad but it is true

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on Tue Apr 10th 2012 at 10:46:33 alexis

mr kanazawa must really have low self esteem is your manhood too small for you to look somewhere to vent out were you abused as a child to look for people to pick on. and for the record you happen to be quite ugly i wonder just how much ugliness you will pass to your children. please remove the speck in your eyes before you remove the log in your neighbors eyes

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on Fri May 4th 2012 at 16:50:06 Laurie

black woman \blak-wum’en\ 1. female human being of African descent. 2. subject to extreme abuse and oppression based upon the inaccurage or faulty (racist)perception of inferiority by the oppressor. 3. Scientific: mother of civilization; one from whom all life comes forth. 4. one who subscribes and practices thoughts and deeds which promote unity among people of color. Synonyms: wife, mother, sister, leader, teacher, warrior. Adjectives: strong, intelligent, beautiful, compassionate, tireless. Note: She who was last shall be first. On this you can count.

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on Fri May 4th 2012 at 16:52:37 Laurie

#2. “inaccurage” should be “inaccurate”. Though I enjoy coining words and terms, this was not one.

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on Fri May 4th 2012 at 17:16:59 deedee7789

@Laurie

black woman \blak-wum’en\ 1. female human being of African descent. 2. subject to extreme abuse and oppression based upon the inaccurate or faulty (racist)perception of inferiority by the oppressor. 3. Scientific: mother of civilization; one from whom all life comes forth. 4. one who subscribes and practices thoughts and deeds which promote unity among people of color. Synonyms: wife, mother, sister, leader, teacher, warrior. Adjectives: strong, intelligent, beautiful, compassionate, tireless. Note: She who was last shall be first. On this you can count.

Wonderful definition. 😀

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on Sun May 20th 2012 at 04:58:58 LR

Truth is, as Black women get older, they look better than White women because they age slower.

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on Sun May 20th 2012 at 09:13:18 satanforce

I’d say Prof. Kanazawa’s comments have stood the test of time , especially with the new DNA evidence showing that black women are the sex/race combination closest to chimpanzees. The DNA recombination even shows that they are closer to chimps than Neanderthals! I believe that this is due to their extra testosterone.

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on Sun May 20th 2012 at 12:23:26 satanforce

….might you not be getting enough bress and pooosy these days?

Quite the opposite!! Especially now that I have had some of these bleaching pills, I’ve gone from Djimon Hounsou to Terrence Howard. Real women can’t stop flocking to me! People like you are just upset that I’ve found out the truth abot black women, or that I’m engaging in self-improvement!

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on Mon May 21st 2012 at 05:04:55 satanforce

The King of Afro-titty wears blue contacts. Yessuh!

Well. actually, I prefer hazel. The girls say that it gives me a Mediterranean look.

*ahem* titties would be like saying they are no different than other women

As I have already demonstrated, black women are not as human as other women due to their simian genetics and higher T count. This is due to divergent evolution caused by black women being bred on the plantation for traits of promiscuity, cunning, selfishness, reproductive fit and deception. Black men were bred for intelligence, loyalty, dedication, hard work and courtesy.

As a result, the afro-mammary (proper name) is closer in appearance to that of an orangutan, with the concentric rings around the nipple being much darker and primitive, like our Cro-Magnon ancestors.

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on Mon May 21st 2012 at 19:15:23 Herneith

http://herneithmyblog.com/2011/05/23/are-black-women-ugly-or-is-it-small-peckered-men-that-make-them-so/

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on Mon May 21st 2012 at 21:26:54 satanforce

This is so typical!! I come here with facts and statistics, and what do I get ? Angry Black woman attitude and half-breed Beyonce titties (stop looking , stop looking, stop looking… oh god its hypnotic…). You all should be ashamed!!!

Beyonce is still primitive looking in its original state, by the way

And afro-mammaries are still pre-Homo Sapiens. Just compare Jada Fire’s areaolas to an real Alpha Aryan woman like say Puma Swede. The difference is obvious.

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on Tue May 22nd 2012 at 15:14:52 vindicator

Why are we still discussing this joke of a scientist!?

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on Tue May 22nd 2012 at 18:36:45 satanforce

vindicator, don’t be fooled. A simple trip to my blog will show that Dr. Kanazawa was indeed right – black women are monkeys.

https://satanforce.wordpress.com/category/dead-sexy-of-the-week/

@phoebeprunelle

As you are obviously a lesbian , I will not be taking your opinion seriously. However, the fact that you would compare a hideous ape like Jada Fire to an elegant , regal beauty like Puma Swede shows just how decrepit your morals and intellect are.

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on Thu May 24th 2012 at 11:18:21 satanforce

How little the satanic knows about us….

Firstly. I know a lot about primatology, and secondly, you can’t be a black woman, as you know about Baudrillard and all. Unless you deceived me. Like all the other black women….

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on Sat May 26th 2012 at 13:54:05 Why Does Skin Color Matter To People? Part 2 | Michelle Karman Writes

[…] https://abagond.wordpress.com/2011/05/23/satoshi-kanazawa-why-are-black-women-ugly/ […]

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on Sat May 26th 2012 at 16:36:15 Michelle

Hmmm…seems like Satanforce has a lot of time on his hands….His work is failing and he can’t seem to get the upper hand anymore…so he takes it out on…wait for it….black people. It isn’t in Satan’s nature to have humility so he is a lost cause.

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on Sat Jun 30th 2012 at 21:55:13 HT

In his study he ranked white women as the highest and when it came to opposite gender black men scored pretty high.

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on Thu Jul 5th 2012 at 22:20:14 LR

And Asian men are considered ugly as well.

Women always treat their male partners with cruel infidelity if they aren’t masculine enough and don’t age that much.

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on Fri Aug 10th 2012 at 08:00:34 the LoneRanger

I am another Japanese man who thinks black women are ugly (97%). Of course, their dark skin is a turn off as well as wirery hair. However, Black women cant hide their mental IQ of a typical 11 year old white child. Sorry, but is the truth.

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on Fri Aug 10th 2012 at 12:06:59 leigh204

@ the LoneRanger:

Judging by your comment, you sound like a racist, white guy pretending to be Japanese.

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on Fri Aug 10th 2012 at 12:58:48 B. R.

Leigh, maybe its one of Duckgoogs sock puppets….

I think I was banned when this thread came in or I would have been all over it…Its a nauseous premise from the start and just pathetic and ridiculas

Just watching the female Olympic sprints from 400 meters under, there is so much drop dead gorgous graceful and exiting black female beauty on display that it makes the rest of the world pale in camparison……no pun intended

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on Fri Aug 10th 2012 at 14:55:07 phoebeprunelle

Yea sure, black women are always ‘ugly’ when there is a certain population who do not have easy access to them–sour grapes.

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on Sun Aug 26th 2012 at 18:26:16 Disgusted

Given a choice, most black men would not choose black women. Most men at all. I have made a post to quantitatively discuss this, but it could not be posted because it had too many links in it, so I will break it into pieces.

I will take my evidence from the ISG, and I will estimate the number of posts per region to demonstrate what men choose– GIVEN THE CHOICE.

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on Sun Aug 26th 2012 at 18:46:27 King

^ Except that MOST Black men who marry, end up marrying Black women?
Are they forced?

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on Sun Aug 26th 2012 at 19:19:09 menelikcharles

Disgusted, what on earth are you talking about?

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on Wed Sep 12th 2012 at 21:56:02 Robbie

I am an Italian-American (with Blue Eyes) . I like Asian women the best…Chinese and Japanese especially. Black women don’t do it for me…but I don’t think they are ugly. I am just not attracted to them. It is a personal preference only.

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on Wed Sep 12th 2012 at 23:55:20 B. R.

Absolutly, Peanut, and make no mistake, black women are the most beautiful women on the planet…I celibrate the beauty of the black woman…in all her natural grace and beauty…Ive stated it before, Ive been married twice to black women and if I was single, I would be looking for a black woman..not that I exclusivly would only date black woman, but, I know so much treasure is there , so I would always have a lot of attention on the black woman and their extraordinary beauty…

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on Sat Sep 22nd 2012 at 07:13:48 Destiny Campbell

As far as testosterone levels go, all of these studies done on MALE ATHLETES are irrelevant. Higher levels of testosterone in black male athletes would in no way mean that everyday black women have higher testosterone levels as well. That’s a straw man’s argument. It could very well be that black women actually have higher estrogen levels than women of other levels which would explain why they tend to have wider hips and other features that are more clearly feminine (when did shapely legs, hips, and large breast become masculine?) Also, why do people assume black women have more body hair? If they did, their hair own average would be longer than the average white, latina, or asian but it is NOT. Yes there are plenty of black women who do have a good length of hair but I don’t see the average black woman walking around with a mustache or beard. This study is complete BS. This dude took a few unidentified men to do a study on women (without specifying how these men felt about women of other races to begin with), he completely too the fact that SLIGHTLY more black women were judged as unattractive in his poll than other races and completely disregarded the fact that there were a HIGHER percentage of black women deemed as ‘attractive’ than both white and Native American women and a higher percentage of black women were judged as very attractive than both Asian and Native American women. In essence, even his own chart results do not even prove his point!

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on Sat Sep 22nd 2012 at 07:20:40 Destiny Campbell

ALSO PEOPLE NEED TO STOP EXAGGERATING THE AMOUNT OF BLACK MEN THAT DATE NON BLACK WOMEN!!!!! Blacks have some of the LOWEST intermarriage numbers out of all the races. Even though black men are twice as likely to date outside their race, the percentage of black men doing is still VERY LOW COMPARED TO OTHER RACES!!!! We’re talking about 5% of black women to 10% of black men! That’s not a huge percentage gap AT ALL!!!!!!!

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on Sat Sep 22nd 2012 at 07:32:07 menelikcharles

Black women are the most attractive…….full stop!

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on Sat Sep 22nd 2012 at 07:47:38 Destiny Campbell

@ebony and @laromana It’s funny how you don’t see men of your own race as attractive but lament that the media and society has brainwashed men of all races to think that you as black women are ugly. If you cannot see the attractiveness among the dark skinned men of your own racial group, how are you any less brainwashed than any man that finds all black women unattractive? And please don’t say ” It’s just a preference” because your ‘preferences’ are influenced by the same media/society as the ‘preferences’ of those who are not attracted to black women. I actually feel sorry for you guys choosing to adore the beauty of any man who is not black while feeling bad about yourselves and being ‘hurt’ when some of those same men are not attracted to you.

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on Wed Oct 24th 2012 at 03:50:05 Ann

Satoshi Kanazawa is ragging on black women because he probably can’t get a date with a fine black lady. I’m a white woman and his study is just crazy. I have eyes and I can see. I’ve never thought that black women were unattractive. Never ever. There are attractive and unattractive people in all ethnic groups… and Satoshi Kanazawa isn’t one of the attractive ones in his. 😉 Don’t let anyone brainwash you. Black women should not have any self hate or listen to some crazy Asian guy who has a bug up his butt. Beauty comes from within for all people and this researcher is not attractive doing something so biased that his science stinks to high heaven.

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on Mon Nov 12th 2012 at 03:16:42 daisytross

@Warren AZ
I am responding your statement,”@Menelik
I have to disagree with you and no my premise if pretty solid. I like being black and female… A white women could say the same thing about us in terms of our hair, contacts, nose jobs, bleaching, and constant dark-skin gripes.

White women want to look Latina or racially ambiguous, not the image of black African.

So I’ll say again, black women (we/us) need to stop making other women a factor, the differences are too obvious.”

The fact of the matter is that yes many whites attempt at the features of genetically African through genetic manipulation including HGH which was developed among other biochemical advances from the DNA of Africans as early as the 19th century, surgeries, and false butt pads and lip fattening gels. The statement about tans and perms among whites being an act suggesting a desire for African features being in your opinion an opening to the idea that whites could suggest the same about black women who get relaxers and wigs and skin lightening products and so forth is actually a fact. Black women who do these things are dissatisfied with the way they were made and have fallen for the lie that their features are inherently less attractive than other women. We may say with our mouths that, “I know I look good” but we would die of embarrassment if someone saw us without an Indian woman’s hair covering our naturally kinky hair. As recent as the 1980’s there were television commercials that advertised exercise equipment that made the butt flat. I recall the narrator saying, “Wouldn’t you like a nice behind” and the woman in the commercial, a blond with a headband and leotard turns to the camera after the camera has spanned closely up her body to her face, “Like mine!”
And women wore clothes that wouldn’t make their butts look big.

But during that time they were perfecting means of producing substances that could begin to change the way white women look, (among other things), and call it their own. Now white women suddenly have large fatty deposits on their behinds claiming that this is how I they are made now. When all during the 19th century bloodletting, sexual slavery, and the displaying of corpse derrière as museum spectacles, hand bags, and such were all a part of the Caucasian fascination with the form of the African woman. In particular the Khoisan, so called pygmy, and the Andamanese women among others who were predisposed to peculiar traits that white scientists studied in great detail through women captive for the science of sex in Europe and the Americas and called it a condition. Any condition that is studied scientifically, or displayed in the annals of history in museums and medical and scientific journals is not a norm for those who are studying or displaying or creating entire fashions from it. THose big bottom dresses of the 18 hundreds were designed in an attempt to emulate our natural form. Not a racially ambiguous genotype. No. African pure through and through. Today the same is in effect. The difference between the Caucasian woman who does this and the African is that Africans praise those they are idolizing. So called black women say,”She has good hair” and burn their very flesh from their head in order to scold and modify the their subsequently bad hair. We mutilate our skin with skin lightening chemicals so we can be pretty like J Lo, whom you mentioned and make our eyes pretty and blue against our ebony skin. But the Caucasian woman does it and gives no tribute to whom she is imitating. She says this is how I was made. And even though you can see that she is browning her skin, fattening her lips and behind, rounding her nose, slanting her eyes(and yes slanted eyes are African traits- Asians have thick eyelids not slanted eyes (see image at the following link http://www.kemikings.com/african-bride/061-2/ ), you believe that your beauty is nonexistent and therefore would not be imitated as it in fact is being imitated.

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on Tue Nov 13th 2012 at 12:22:48 abagond

A comment from laromana:

Destiny Campbell says,
@ebony and @laromana It’s funny how you don’t see men of your own race as attractive but lament that the media and society has brainwashed men of all races to think that you as black women are ugly. If you cannot see the attractiveness among the dark skinned men of your own racial group, how are you any less brainwashed than any man that finds all black women unattractive? And please don’t say ” It’s just a preference” because your ‘preferences’ are influenced by the same media/society as the ‘preferences’ of those who are not attracted to black women. I actually feel sorry for you guys choosing to adore the beauty of any man who is not black while feeling bad about yourselves and being ‘hurt’ when some of those same men are not attracted to you.

laromana says,
Destiny,
There’s a big difference between stating a preference and trashing those who don’t fit your preference (which is what many American men of ALL races have been BRAINWASHED to do when it comes to BW).

I don’t OWE you/ANYONE a justification/apology for my preferences in men.
I’ve NEVER made any statements about the “attractiveness/unattractiveness” of BM/trashed the humanity, dignity, or masculinity of BM on this blog/ANYWHEREelse.
STOP MISREPRESENTING my pov to justify your BIASED/MISINFORMEDperspective.

There are many examples of ANTI-BW BM in America who PUBLICLYpromote/condone ANTI-BW HATE and I believe they need to be PUBLICLY confronted/condemned.
BM exist because BW chose to birth them and they owe BW their lives and all due RESPECT.

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on Wed Jan 9th 2013 at 13:50:26 Jennifer

I actually have found asian men seem to be the race of men least attracted to black women. there are more black, white, arab and latin men that appreciate their beauty more, so his opinions don’t suprise me and that’s what this is truthfully because this is no scientific evidence and beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Black women along with mixed race and latin women (who mainly have black descent) are the most beautiful on average in my opinion. I’m mixed half black woman myself so maybe i’m biased, but even though I have a white mum I have always looked up to black women as idols of beauty, I suppose because I can’t relate to the looks of a blonde white woman.

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on Fri Feb 22nd 2013 at 23:58:18 aaa

just stop seeking apologies and accept the fact that black women are physically unattractive. the only reason you reject this fact is that it seems racist to you. but facts are not good or bad, they’re facts.

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on Sat Mar 2nd 2013 at 19:56:39 Oracle

I want the person who commented on the numbers of Black men dating/marrying outside their race. The numbers are overrated. In 2009 according to the Census Bureau 4.2 million Black men married Black women and 310,000 Black men married White women. This same census clarified that White men married to Black women were more likely to stay married and the likelihood for a divorce was slim to none. Whereas, White men married to White women were more likely to divorce than White men married to Black women. Is this because White women age faster than Black women? Is it because Black women stay younger longer and her body physique is shaped to make her more sexual (juicier) and physically fit than White women? White men have known this about Black women for at least 400 years. Moreover, this same census clarified that Black men married to White women by more likely to divorce by their 10th year of marriage. Now why is this?

I find that most Asian men will secretively when no one is around try to talk to a Black woman. I also find that he will do this especially when Asian women are not present. This is also true for Eastern Indian men (Pakistani, India, and sometimes MIddle Easterners) will secretively try to talk to a Black women when the women of their race is not around.

When a Black woman is not only beautiful and voluptuous, but graceful and elegant and consciously aware of who she is and in the presence of Asian women, Asian women are just as jealous as White women–cutting their eyes, rolling their eyes, having mean expressions on their faces even if they are with a Black man. The same is true for White women. Not to mention as so many on this blog have done before, but the pressures and expenses for other races in particularly White women have to go through to keep themselves up, like the anti-aging let alone trying to look Black which according to this article it is fairly ugly to be a Black woman! Oh please, people, this is another assault on Black women for not only having the best bodies in the world, but the keeper of all that is SACRED!

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on Wed Mar 6th 2013 at 16:17:06 Low self-esteem due to my race/ethnicity, what can I do about it? - Page 9

[…] post a link like this (I'm guessing satoshi kanazawa's hypothesis is what you were referring to); Satoshi Kanazawa: Why Are Black Women Ugly? | Abagond Reply With […]

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on Thu Mar 7th 2013 at 00:04:58 Melissa

It’s interesting that he is an asian male is commenting on this when in society they are viewed by many women as the least sexually attractive male. I don’t share that view and think any race of men can attractive.
However I think asian males and black women share some things in common. First being that their features are more glorified when on white people, for example johnny depp has often been mentioned as the most handsome male, is it also coincedental that his features are not that different from many handsome asian men? This is similar to how Angelina get praised for her full lips; a feature many black women already have.
Also when men are only partially asian they get praised more for their looks in the media, for example Keanu Reeves & Dean Cain when there are fully asian men such as Takeshi Kaneshiro who are more handsome. This is similar to how the media prefers to put light skinned black women such as Beyonce on the forefront.

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on Thu Mar 7th 2013 at 02:32:53 Thomas Conlon

not sure why my comment got pulled but if corroboration is such a key element at this time:

I’m not the only one that saw it, it was basically the charts and crap from psychology today right on cnn.com

http://forum.blackhairmedia.com/scientist-claims-black-women-are-ugly_topic310152_post8256498.html#8256498

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on Tue Mar 12th 2013 at 23:50:15 miofio

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. However, too often a consumer mind is easily directed to the mind that beholds as it is told to behold.

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on Wed Mar 13th 2013 at 00:04:45 mary burrell

Why is Satoshi Kanazwa ugly?

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on Mon Apr 22nd 2013 at 01:00:33 =]

its funny to see people are so keen on defending or bashing a race of people. what comes down to is people as individuals. each race has their own ugly people. in the end what attract us to someone is different from what attract someone else. for example, i do not find dark skin to be attractive nor does a really round thick lip. bottom line is, if your born ugly then your screwed, does not matter how good your race looks. on the other hand if your lucky enough to be born attractive, then who cares what the rest of your race looks like. adding to that, i do not think an attractive black woman will even be bother by what this person said just as I am not bothered by people saying asian men are short cause im 6’5.

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on Mon Apr 22nd 2013 at 01:14:12 miofio

Its also funny how beautiful Asian women have inherently African facial features. Go figure!
😀

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on Mon Jun 17th 2013 at 02:13:00 Married White Men Seeking Discreet Sexual Encounters with Black Women on Craigslist | Black! Not White Dipped in Chocolate

[…] We live in a culture that tells us day in and day out that Black women are the bottom of the totem pole. It wasn’t too long ago that a study was published by Psychology Today that stated that Black women were “objectively the least attractive women.” The article was fallacious, but it certainly garnered a lot of attention. You can read more about it here. […]

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on Mon Jun 17th 2013 at 02:19:46 Gina

The fact that the person who wrote that was an Asian male surprised me. In everyday life I don’t come across Asians who appear to have that attitude .In fact, I have had everything from chinese to philipino men check me out.

The person must have had a realllly bad experience with a black woman and decided to write that stupid article.

As a black woman, I have to sadly say that the vast majority of Asian women I meet are all too willing to dog out Asian men to me for as long as they can and act as if white men are so superior and great. Maybe that’s something he should have addressed since it’s more close to home to him as an Asian.

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on Thu Sep 5th 2013 at 15:00:14 Lonely Voice

@King

“And if the composite picture of female faces by country is any indication, the world’s ugliest women are from not Africa, but…

…Samoa.

IE, the BIGGEST MANLIEST ISLAND MEN in the world with radical over-representation in the NFL also have the BIGGEST MANLIEST ISLAND WOMEN and also the ugliest.”

What an idiot. Here are your ugly, massive, Samoans, awash in testosterone!

I was too busy paying attention to the guy on the right it took me a while to notice the women. 😛

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on Thu Jun 12th 2014 at 10:27:17 Bobby X

Think about this dude is Asian, they’ve always been shown to be prejudice against foreigners especially black people, I guarentee if someone of American background did the test, that the result would be totally diffrent with Asian women being the “ugliest” and others being almost equal.

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on Sat Nov 15th 2014 at 23:07:28 Layla

I want this silly Kanazawa needs to meet my adorable Asian Pakistani husband!
Surely my husband wants to talk to him and tell him he is a racist piece of shit! Because there are Asian men who like black women!

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on Thu May 3rd 2018 at 02:26:40 Victor Martinez

It is subjective, unimportant, and not altogether true. I have seen some very,very attractive black women FROM Africa.

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on Wed Mar 27th 2019 at 22:37:59 handsomebradybreaker7653

Most black women are obese,b***hy and just not fun company.Lots of us black men are VERY handsome,masculine and often quite bright. Black women (and their p-whipped black male acolytes )always say that black men who date non-black women can’t handle a real woman,but we handsome black lads are sick of the drama which accompanies far too many black chicks.

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on Wed Mar 27th 2019 at 22:43:13 handsomebradybreaker7653

I prefer buxom blondes (what red-blooded lad doesn’t ?) but a buxom black babe is ALWAYS my desire !!!!!!

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on Thu Mar 28th 2019 at 02:35:51 malarki5

@ handsomebradybreaker7653, it seems to me that
you are trying a little too hard to cause offense. Well,
it isn’t going to work, dude. Noone who sprouts such
nonsense…even if partly true…is in any position to
pick and choose who he dates…he’s too much of a
loser to have that choice.

So quit with rehashing half-truths and slander and
get out there an find yourself a woman of any race
as long as you are happy.

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on Thu Mar 28th 2019 at 10:32:56 Herneith

@handsomebradybreaker7653;

The white women are welcome to you, good riddance!

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on Mon Apr 18th 2022 at 16:50:53 Ricky Moore

Women after 30 are old and don’t matter much for mating patterns. And practically everyone in every country on earth rates white girls, Asians and Hispanics (who are white mixed with a branch of people related to Asians) at the top. Almost every black man with money is married to a white chick.
Attractiveness is subjective, but not random. Most of what you find attractive is HEREDITARY. You have no choice. Since most are those genes are shared, most people agree on what makes people attractive. Personal preferences are usually icing, not the cake.

Personally my problem is that they’re often entitled and obnoxious whores who are obsessed with celebrity gossip, much like most Western women but even worse. I don’t even consider thinking about dating anyone who isn’t white or yellow.

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