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Asian fetish

An Asian fetish, also known as yellow fever, is where a man mainly goes for East Asian women. For East Asian men this is considered to be natural and therefore it is not a fetish. But for white American men it is seen as an unnatural desire and therefore is a fetish.

In America by far the most common sort of mixed-race marriage is between white men and Asian women. So it seems like white men have a thing for Asian women.

babysan-speaksjapaneseBut it is more than just the numbers or even all the war brides and mail-order brides: Asian women report that some white men do have this strange hang-up on them: these men seem to date mainly Asian women, stereotype them by saying that Asian women are “exotic”, “hot” and are much more willing to serve and please their men. Some of these men even go so far as to learn all things Asian. It all comes off as kind of creepy.

Some argue that there is no such thing as an Asian fetish. Here are the three arguments I have heard:

  1. White women paint it as a fetish to shame white men out of dating Asian women. Because only Asian women present a serious threat to white women.  After all, when black men or Jewish men go after blondes, no one calls that a “blonde fetish”. Or when a white woman will date only black men, no one calls that a “black fetish”.
  2. Asian women are naturally more desirable than white or black women. Steve Sailer argues that they look more womanly because they have less muscle by weight than either white women or black women.
  3. Asian women are more open to dating outside their race than other women in America. A speed dating study done by Columbia University showed that it is women, not men, who make dating decisions based on race. Men are dogs and will go for any pretty woman regardless of race. Given that, many white men will naturally wind up with Asian women.

Asian women in America, much more so than black, white or Latina women, are way more likely grow up in a place where most males do not belong to their race, where most are in fact white. It is also more acceptable for Asian women and white men to marry each other than for either to marry black or Latino.

Asian men get screwed in this because white women are not equally open about dating outside their race. Also white stereotypes of Asian men as nerdy and unmanly do not help.

Samhita at Feministing put it well, speaking for many Asian women:

But for the rest of us, that are sick and tired of white men being into us because we are “exotic,” well this shit is just tired. I am not your fetish, I am not your fantasy and, yeah, I might be good in bed, but my race is not why.

IWILNO2001

See also:

815 Responses

  1. Many East Asian women in the U.S. appear to share a mutual fetish for white men!

    I think a lot of it has to do with more than two people accidentally falling in love. I think many East Asian women (and non-black minorities, across the board) see having a white mate as a way to “assimilate”. This can be proven by the quality of white mates that many partner with. I’ve seen attractive, successful East Asian women with decidedly unattractive, bummy white men. You do the math.

    Interracial relationships in the U.S. appear to be seen as more acceptable as long as no black person is in the picture. Yay or nay?

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  2. I think the reason being for the so called asian fetish its bcuz that asian usually fit in with white people more than black people fit in with them and if they so called act black they are not criticize like if a white female where to do it so basically they can fit in with any group

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  3. Lynette: So why does your friend want to find a White mate? Did she give reasons?

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  4. You wrote the article as an Asian fetish by White man, but the picture has the young Asian woman appearing to be the one with the fetish. An Asian woman wanting a White man just because he is white is one thing, but one would really have to be sick to have a poster of Rush Limbaugh, LOL.

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  5. OK, you got the picture from the Onion. Got it, LOL.

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  6. Now it is a different picture.

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  7. I was unhappy with that picture, partly because it did not send a clear message like you pointed out.

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  8. People like what they like, there are some women who love Nigerian men, would you say they have a fetish to them to?. Asian women are very beautiful and if white men like them good. God bless them. Thank God that we live in a time, that we can marry who we really like.

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  9. Valerie i think you missed the point, we are not trying to prescribe whom should marry whom, we are simply discussing why the situation is scewed in a certain way.
    we are not approving or disapproving.

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  10. Wow.

    I see whites aren’t the only who play the “you’re not really black” card on black who they come to accept on an individual basis.

    Yeah, the whole idea of assimilation is the main catalyst behind the high percentage of white/Asian marriages and relationships.

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  11. Dating in general is and has always been based on stereotypes and generalizations . it’s about social power and image adding to your own social power by getting with the right person to boost your social status. at this moment Asian woman are enjoying being in demand and adding to their power, and that power comes from white males.

    Liked by 1 person


  12. Asian women are no more (intrinsically) beautiful than BW (or ANY other race of women). They are just considered MORE ACCEPTABLE by many WM/NON-BM who may also happen to be ANTI-BW RACISTS.

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  13. i got a buddy – he prefers asian women cause they are smaller, thin – he likes em SKINNY and have less body hair.

    I point out he is narrowing his chances of finding happiness by fixating on certain physical attributes – but he says he wants what he wants…

    I never limited my preferences like that – I like a main that makes me feel good – happy – safe – makes me laugh…those are more important and are in no way limited by race

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  14. Hi Abagond!

    I’ve been reading your blog for a while.
    I would never comment because I silently agreed with many of the people who would regularly comment on your posts! 🙂

    This time however, I would like to voice my opinion.
    I am Canadian citizen BUT my mother is Cameroonian and my father Zairian (Congolese) from the now Democratic Republic of Congo. I can very much relate to Lynette and to your post.

    My first language is French because of colonization in many parts of Africa, Portuguese, more commonly French or English are our official languages. It makes English only my second language. I’ve lived in France and Canada most of my life…and it was only only coming to L.A. for my studies that I’ve experienced this weird BUT subtle “positive” racist remarks.

    I wasn’t aware but I have a different kind of accent depending on whom I talk with. Some think it French or British or slightly Canadian or all mixed up. I’ve had white men come up to me more BECAUSE I’m supposedly not REALLY black??? What?
    Due to my accent, my “cleaner” demeanor, my natural curled afro and my “nice” clothes and me speaking French. I am “supposedly” not really black..I am what they call a BETTER black, an African girl with the cutest and sweetest face.
    White men and even some Asian ones ask me where they can meet the less ghetto black girls. they think African girls from other countries are far better and less black.

    My Asian friend…always teases me about me not being ghetto and having a weird accent and constantly tells his friends that I speak French and that I lived in France and that I’m Canadian that my hair is all real…
    Some would say I should be flattered but…it doesn’t make feel good that all my sisters and brothers are stereotyped and put in such a bad light.

    He’s a good person BUT he is also very narrow-minded about blacks. I’m actually his FIRST “black” friend who is “not so black”. For him whites and Hispanics are his preferred choices for finding a mate.

    Especially as a black girl I feel that black women are put at the bottom and that White and Asian women are put on a pedestal due to their fair/porcelain skin, small/petite features and them being apparently more quiet, sweeter, more feminine and more attractive.

    Also, the reason why I think Asian women are VERY much so in demand (wow, it sounds very objectifying..sorry) is because a white man being the status of proper, more educated, better looking and having more power on this and influence than any other human being…. is that an Asian woman besides the small, almond eyes, being almost hairless and being petite and the culture, She is the closest to a white woman’s appearance.

    Also I’ve been told like you said that due to their very close-knit family upbringing and culture oriented environment. They know their place. As woman a man comes first, his needs should be satisfied because he’s supposed to be the ultimate breadwinner. She can’t complain and should look pretty and have the supper and house clean when he comes home tired from fighting and working to death for his family. The man is king, he can do no wrong.

    I also know an Asian girl who again is very nice says that she prefers White men because they’re more assertive, attractive and manly. They’re more romantic and don’t fear being direct and sexy. In their culture man COMPLETELY overlook making the woman feel..alive. They don’t celebrate anniversaries, kiss in public or even hold hands. They don’t send flowers or leave sweet little notes or go out on dates…so I could see why she feels the way she does.

    And it’s true like one said…that MANY, MANY (not all ) Asian women go out of their way to meet and marry White men. It’s marrying up and to White men it’s like tasting something fresh, “exotic” and different without the whole package being something that society would deem “out” of the norm.

    Anyway, that’s what I have to say! 🙂

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  15. of course, a quote from my favourite commenter /snark

    mynameismyname Says:
    Mon 25 May 2009 at 19:28:22

    Many East Asian women in the U.S. appear to share a mutual fetish for white men!

    Interracial relationships in the U.S. appear to be seen as more acceptable as long as no black person is in the picture. Yay or nay?

    ——

    Ever heard of oppression olympics? always ready to dismiss the any difficulties any non-black POC may experience?

    And that statement of East Asian women having a fetish for white men is beyond disgusting.

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  16. in demand by who? white men?? what black woman on gods green earth gives a damn about what a lame ass white man wants??

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  17. alot of people look at white mens asian fetish as another side of their child pornography fetish and the white mans love of little boys because asian women have no curves.

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  18. Hmm, I don’t think it’s that East Asian women are any more attractive than say Latina’s or Afro American women, but if its to be said that stereotypes (whether positive or negative) about a person’s group can determine whether they’ll be approached or not by members of other groups, then asian women definitely have some positive stereotypes (though personally I don’t see good in any stereotypes be they positive or negative) in their favor. These “positives” include being considered intelligent ( u know the model minority bullshit), petite, ultra feminine, great in bed, (a new one I’ve heard lmao) hairless, and not to mention open to any breathing white guy. All of which are bullshit keep in mind.

    Stereotypes for Latinas include all being hot (God help the less attractive ones), fiery tempered, good in bed, though unfortunately almost always having litters of kids (I can’t believe that people actually believe shit like this).

    Black women don’t have it any better we’re considered loud, rude, hell even before we even open our mouths, masculine, ,non sexual (or down right whores) and ball busting, though “positively” were considered to be wild in bed (lets not forget that all of us don’t give non-black men the time of day because we are only attracted black men).

    Now ALL of this is complete nonsense, to the common sense welding person that understands people are individuals and you can’t force them all into these neat little roles you think they should have because they are Afro American, Hispanic or Asian. But unfortunately for the idiot that lives by stereotyping people (yea I said idiot), dating wise, more likely than not they aren’t even going to consider afro american or latina women, their going to head straight for that East asian female because they feel they are getting their best bet. Hell and if they are color conscious and they are concerned about how their future children will look, one thing they can bet on and that is its a strong probability they won’t be “too dark” (which is something they have to worry about if they have a child with afro american or latina woman, hell even with middle eastern or south asian woman).

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  19. Now what I hate more than anything is someone not even taking the chance to get to know me and being reduced to a fucking stereotype. I’ve concluded that I could care less what some ignorant fools think about women like me, from traveling I KNOW that all types of men are attracted to black women and WILL consider dating us, and those that don’t their loss. Now I feel like Zora Neal Hurston summed my feelings up *almost* perfectly in this quote “Sometimes, I feel discriminated against, but it does not make me angry. It merely astonishes me. How can any deny themselves the pleasure of my company? It is beyond me.”

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  20. #20 jasmine Says:

    asian women have no curves

    gee Abagond, you have some really open minded people here on your blog – NOT!

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  21. Therese,

    Would you happen to be a poster from Racialicious?

    It’s interesting, even though this post about whites and an “Asian fetish”, black Americans STILL come up quite often. Very interesting and it confirms what I’ve always known.

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  22. 24. mynameismyname Says:

    It’s interesting, even though this post about whites and an “Asian fetish”, black Americans STILL come up quite often. Very interesting and it confirms what I’ve always known.

    Black Americans came up because YOU bought them up… so what is it that confirms what you’ve always known? that there are only white and black people on earth and the rest are non-existent?

    maybe you should read think of race in america in terms of black and white @ stuff white people do

    and no, I’ve never posted on Racialicious.

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  23. I see whites aren’t the only who play the “you’re not really black” card on black who they come to accept on an individual basis.

    In social psychology they call that sub typing lol. They make exceptions for an individual while still holding on to certain stereotypes about a group that individual belongs too.

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  24. just me said:

    Dating in general is and has always been based on stereotypes and generalizations . it’s about social power and image adding to your own social power by getting with the right person to boost your social status. at this moment Asian woman are enjoying being in demand and adding to their power, and that power comes from white males.

    You said it perfectly that is what stereotypes are really for. This is reinforced mainly by institutional racism.

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  25. 14 – just me Says:

    at this moment Asian woman are enjoying being in demandand adding to their power, and that power comes from white males.

    *jaw drops*

    you people have GOT TO BE kidding right? how on earth do you get more *power* by being objectified and classed as less than human or non human?

    some of the comments here make “east asian women” sound like the latest ipod feature.

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  26. Lynette said:

    She often says, “Well, Lynette you are not really Black.” I have to correct her often. I don’t understand why she feels I am different from other Black Americans.

    She likes you and wants to be your friend and yet is somehow trying to square that with her racism against blacks.

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  27. Dani,

    You been paying attention in your Socialogy class! It is called subtyping! LOL. I mentioned the famous example of this from Spike Lee’s “Do The Right Thing” in the comments under Abagond’s post on why so few white men marry black women.

    Therese,

    Stop paying naive. You know and I know that the western world doesn’t have the same problem with other so-called minorities that they do with blacks. Anything but black. You know that. That’s what I’ve been implying all along. This whole conversation proves it.

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  28. Dani,

    You been paying attention in your Socialogy class! It is called subtyping! LOL. I mentioned the famous example of this from Spike Lee’s “Do The Right Thing” in the comments under Abagond’s post on why so few white men marry black women.

    LMAO I know right? I’m just trying to give her word for that because it seems people do these things alot. Make you the exception while still keeping their stereotype about your race, gender, culture etc. the same. I found out what the word is for this situation now so I’m spreading to everyone lol.

    Stop paying naive. You know and I know that the western world doesn’t have the same problem with other so-called minorities that they do with blacks. Anything but black. You know that. That’s what I’ve been implying all along. This whole conversation proves it.

    co-sign. It’s very true. I just think Lynette’s friend caught on to another way to assimilate with white folks and that’s to hate Blacks lol. Not all Asians are content with this model minority stereotype. Here’s an article I read that was very interesting. He argues against it and thinks it hurts Asians more than it helps. He talks about everything that effects them and its good read.

    Here’s the link http://jalanjournal.org/2008/09/asians-against-white-supremacy/

    some of the comments here make “east asian women” sound like the latest ipod feature.

    They are the latest ipod feature. There is an application on the iphone that supports this post on Asian fetish. I’m so serious!

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  29. I agree with you Jasmine! As one white female co worker said to me about Asian women “flat in the front, flat in the back. If they cut their hair you can’t tell the man from the woman”.

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  30. you people are so narrow minded and are a bunch of disgusting bigots, I only come back here because I find Abagond’s writings interesting (don’t agree to all he says well duh) and something that is NOT about black vs. white ALWAYS becomes that, completely making other coloured peoples invisible.

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  31. @yolanda & jasmine:

    Asian women have no curves, huh? You haven’t met all Asian women to make baseless assumptions like that…maybe the ones you’ve seen…perhaps.

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  32. Yeah, L.T.,

    Many East Asian women have curves. They come in a variety of shapes like any other ethnicity of women.

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  33. Dani:

    That was a great link (the one about anti-Asian racism). Thanks. And thanks for telling us about subtyping. I have noticed that too but did not know it had a name.

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  34. Dani is right about the Asian fetish iPhone app:

    http://www.racialicious.com/2009/04/08/fetish-goes-high-tech-the-cute-asian-girls-iphone-app/

    There is also a school of thought that the Asian fetish is just this side of the law of pedophilia – that what white men like in Asian women is how they are like young boys. A particularly mean article that expresses this idea appeared in Salon in 1998 called “Tiny, flat-chested and hairless!”, written (surprise) by a white woman:

    http://www.salon.com/col/weav/1998/05/nc_06weav2.html

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  35. There are Asian women with curves, of course, but in general they seem to have way fewer curves than black women or even white women. So while Steve Sailer tries to be “scientific” and “objective” about interracial beauty, and while what he says is interesting to read, he is letting his own taste in women come through.

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  36. wow…some of the comments about east asian women are kinda nasty. there’s no need to insult a whole group of people now.

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  37. if you don’t like black women being stereotyped don’t do it to other people either.

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  38. Monica, thank you!

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  39. Aba,

    What nationalities of East Asian women have you been most exposed to? I’m just curious.

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  40. Good point. Mainly Chinese and Korean.

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  41. @Monica:

    Amen! 🙂

    And @abagond:

    Regarding the Asian women seemingly lack curves thing, you mentioned you’re exposed to Chinese and Korean (East Asians). When most people think about Asians, which Asians come to mind? Chinese, Japanese, and Korea, of course. They seem to forget that Asians are diverse. What about SoutheastE Asian women? Namely Thai, Filipino, Viet, etc. Don’t forget the South Asians. TThe women from those backgrounds appear differently than the so-called typical Asians you see.

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  42. I know about South-east Asians but they are nowhere near as common in New York as Chinese and Koreans. Mynameismyname was asking about the ones I am most exposed to.

    South Asians do not fall under “Asian fetish” as far as I understand it.

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  43. I once knew a white guy from Canada who was REALLY looking forward to going to India. When I asked why, he said, “The women are SO beautiful! They kinda hide themselves, but man!” Then he literally licked his lips. When I told him he was being both a racist and a sexist ass, he just laughed. But not as fully as he usually did.

    Regarding Abagond’s point in a comment on how the “Asian fetish is [sometimes?] just this side of the law of pedophilia”:

    “In Palo Alto, a man is on trial for the brutal sexual assault of an Asian American high school student in October 2007. The motive? According to prosecutors, a seriously dangerous sexual fetish for underage Asian girls.”

    @ Angry Asian Man

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  44. To Abagond:

    There is also a school of thought that the Asian fetish is just this side of the law of pedophilia – that what white men like in Asian women

    Yeah I’ve heard that, I wonder where those people would categorize the roughly 1 billion east Asian men on the planet..?

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  45. South Asians do not fall under “Asian fetish” as far as I understand it.

    I think that is correct although one of the people you quoted Samhita at Feministing is of South Asian descent.

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  46. To Abagond and L.T.

    Regarding the Asian women seemingly lack curves thing, you mentioned you’re exposed to Chinese and Korean (East Asians). When most people think about Asians, which Asians come to mind? Chinese, Japanese, and Korea, of course. They seem to forget that Asians are diverse. What about SoutheastE Asian women? Namely Thai, Filipino, Viet, etc. Don’t forget the South Asians.

    As you go South in Asia, generally, as with Europe (and then the Middle East and Africa), the women tend to get curvier. There are also seem to be different standards for beauty in Asia and the US.
    An Asian woman who would be considered curvy in the US might be considered fat in Asia although I think that’s changing.

    Also recognized that not long ago in China, Taiwan, and Korea the average caloric intake was substantially less than the US, producing people that were smaller in stature and build. I’ve noticed that the younger generations, both for men and women tend to be taller, have broader shoulders, and are more “filled out” so to speak.

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  47. To Mynameismyname and Therese:

    Mynameismyname said:

    Many East Asian women in the U.S. appear to share a mutual fetish for white men!

    Therese said:
    And that statement of East Asian women having a fetish for white men is beyond disgusting.

    Well Therese, I wouldn’t go so far as to say Asian women in the US (as Mynameismyname specified..) “fetish” but there does seem to be a mutual interest among white men and Asian women. Also I know of quite a few Asian women who will date only white men. All I can say is that it takes two to tango.

    As for Asian women in Japan, China, Taiwan, and the Philippines, it’s a known issue among whites guy who have lived in these countries that there are women who fetishize white guys. Call it disgusting if you want but it’s quite real.

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  48. you people are so narrow minded and are a bunch of disgusting bigots, I only come back here because I find Abagond’s writings interesting (don’t agree to all he says well duh) and something that is NOT about black vs. white ALWAYS becomes that, completely making other coloured peoples invisible.

    What are you talking about? It was only two people in this post that said something stereotypical about East Asian women. You need to stop being so naive on how Asian women are treated. They are the most fetishized mainstream group of women that comes off creepy and disgusting. I mean damn how crazy is it that the damn Asian Bride pop ups come up on the internet? or how they are an ipod feature? Not all Asian women are happy about this.

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  49. To macon d:

    Regarding Abagond’s point in a comment on how the “Asian fetish is [sometimes?] just this side of the law of pedophilia”:

    “In Palo Alto, a man is on trial for the brutal sexual assault of an Asian American high school student in October 2007. The motive? According to prosecutors, a seriously dangerous sexual fetish for underage Asian girls.”

    @ Angry Asian Man

    Well there’s one difference..abagond was discussing white men who had Asian fetishes.. the perpetrator in the case you linked, Todd Burpee, is black:

    http://www.examiner.com/printa-1026563~Palo_Alto_rape_suspect_arrested.html?cid=tool-print-top

    Fetishists can come in all races.

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  50. We live in a [worldwide] society divided by–among other things & most importantly–race & racial taboos. Of course racial fetishes are going to dominate many sexual relationships. But this is just how these relationships MAY begin not what they eventually grow into. So what! Some white women may fetishize black/brown/yellow men, Some black/brown men may fetishize brown/white/yellow women, Some black/brown/red/yellow women may fetishize white, etc. men. Whatever. Growing & maintaining a relationship is complex & cannot be accomplished solely on fetishization[?].

    I have many sexual fantasies, but they alone won’t lead me to a healthy & fully rounded relationship. Just really satisfying fantasy sex…uh, if I’m lucky.

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  51. 51. dani Says:

    “You need to stop being so naive on how Asian women are treated.”

    I am not ignorant to how Asian women are treated, I’m just saying that it’s disgusting… except people don’t even seem to be bothered by this injustice.

    “It was only two people in this post”

    01. mynameismyname reckons that Asian women also fetishize white men *gags* (post #01)

    02. Lynette agrees with her/him (post #02)

    03. just me reckons its a power to be fetishized (WTF ???) (post #14)

    04. jasmine reckons Asian women look like little boys (post #20)

    05. Yolanda also thinks Asian women have no curves (WTF ???) (post #32)

    so I’ve just counted FIVE – ok I admit, like most other people I also react more strongly to negativity and five is still a minority of the posters on this topic.

    I just think it’s a bit rich and hypocritical that with black women being made the “ultimate unwoman” throughout history, some others seem to think it’s alright to make asian women another “ultimate unwoman” (being seen as a little boy, a child is NOT flattering… but then, maybe you’re from a different planet where kids rule)

    I have noted my pity for Megan Fox having her ethnicity downsized, mynameismyname has yet to give me the same hell as s/he did when I said the EXACT SAME thing about Rosario Dawson.

    If s/he doesn’t then I will know that s/he is prejudiced and biased against Indigenous peoples, Hispanic, Asian, Middle Eastern peoples and everybody else who is not black. Doing another wrong does not right other wrongs.

    I will always advocate the integrity and beauty of black women/men and I will do the same for others. I will call out when it sounds like others are partaking in Oppression Olympics.

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  52. Hi Lynette, I am sure that some of the attraction is mutual – what I took offense to was that some of the comments implied (to me) that Asian women can’t think for themselves and that white men are the best or something odd like that…

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  53. my comment was a general statement, that could apply to anyone of any race. however this post is about asian woman, and so it applies to that group. do i personally believe that it benefits anyone to be fetishized, no. do i believe some people use their”otherness” to get ahead, yes. you can find those people in every group.

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  54. Thank you Lynette and just me for your explanations, I was probably feeling a bit over-reactive.

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  55. Therese: I think Mynameismyname told you he is a he. Please do not refer to him as s/he. If you suspect that he is in fact a woman, then just say it, but if you do please support your suspicion with reasons. Otherwise I will think you are just trying to insult him and I will delete your comments.

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  56. Abagond – how am I insulting him by not knowing if he’s a woman or not? I honestly did not know… he wouldn’t answer any questions I ask him in a clear manner. But from now on as I know that he’s a he, I will refer to him as so.

    I’ve indicated my total cluelessness regarding anything about mynameismyname physical existence in your post Half White, Half Asian in comment #23 where lifeisannoying called me asinine for being curious about what mynameismyname looks like.

    Seriously, you have some pretty unfriendly commenters with no senses of humour.

    It’s hard to guess which some of your commenters are male or female as many use gender neutral names.

    which is funny /snark/ because I was responding to comment #15 by lifeisannoying for saying “adding my race onto the description will narrow the serch.”… so this person whom I have no idea to what gender they may be due to the gender neutral name, puts out this suggestion… I agree to it and then I get called asinine WTF ???

    I just don’t want to assume that they are male or female or this or that as others have assumed that I am WHITE and/or BLACK of which I am neither.

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  57. That is fine. I did not think of it that way – that there is no way of knowing from his name.

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  58. I am sorry for my strings of posts though… please combine them if it will make your comments section neater *embarrassed* I’m getting a bit too used to sites where I can edit my own comments lol

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  59. Therese Says:

    “I just think it’s a bit rich and hypocritical that with black women being made the “ultimate unwoman” throughout history, some others seem to think it’s alright to make asian women another “ultimate unwoman” (being seen as a little boy, a child is NOT flattering… but then, maybe you’re from a different planet where kids rule)

    I have noted my pity for Megan Fox having her ethnicity downsized, mynameismyname has yet to give me the same hell as s/he did when I said the EXACT SAME thing about Rosario Dawson.

    If s/he doesn’t then I will know that s/he is prejudiced and biased against Indigenous peoples, Hispanic, Asian, Middle Eastern peoples and everybody else who is not black. Doing another wrong does not right other wrongs.

    I will always advocate the integrity and beauty of black women/men and I will do the same for others. I will call out when it sounds like others are partaking in Oppression Olympics.”

    @Therese:

    Hi! I agree with everything you mentioned in your post. I find it ironic it’s not okay to demean a group of people, and, yet, it’s considered okay to say something disparaging of another group?

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  60. If it is wrong to stereotype black women then clearly it is wrong to stereotype Asian women. But I am not going to delete comments simply because they are racist, especially not when the subject has to do with race, like here.

    Like


  61. Therese: I combined your comments into one, as I did the other day.

    Like


  62. @abagond:

    With all due respect, I made no mention that racist comments should be deleted. Actually, it’s a good thing as others can see for themselves how ignorant and hypocritical these comments may be.

    Like


  63. There must be waaaaay… many Asian men and White women who are single until the day they die.

    Unless Asian women and White men are waaaay… greater in number than their opposite sex counterpart.

    If only White women can be more open to dating Asian men, than they won’t have to worry about competing with Asian women so much.

    Like


  64. So the conclusion is:

    – White women painted “Asian Fetish” towards white men, to deter them from dating Asian women.

    – White men painted “Asian Nerd” towards Asian men to deter asian women from dating men of their own race.

    – Asian men and White women need to join forces to takeback their men and women.

    Like


  65. Lynette: It sounds like your Filipino friend have a huge chip on her shoulder (not to mention being supremely immature) for being Asian. She cursed her luck the day she was born as an Asian.

    She wishfully think that she’s white and having white friends (and boyfriend) is one way she thinks she can “Whiteup”. So no surprise she’s in her fantasy land hoping that you’re a white person.

    Like


  66. As an Asian woman, I have to say that I’ve been approached numerous times by WMs. And personally, the things I’ve been told by some of them would’ve warranted a slap in the face. It’s disgusting.

    Like


  67. well i’m a white male and i’ve dated a chinese girl at my college, personally i find asian girls mroe attractive simopky becauuse they tend to be very smart, slender, and overall nicer. I’m not saying they are more beautiful, jsut in my opinion. I’m sick of the trailer trash white girls we get in my hometown though, who think they are too good for anyone. My girlfriend is beautiful and damn near a genius, and white girls tlak crap about her all the time about how she doesn’;t have huge boobs or whatever, but let me tell you something I would rather have a slnder caring girl then a big fat bitchy one, lol sorry that was kinda blunt but i hate it when people get down on her cuz she doens’t have huge boobs so fuck those girls who say that

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  68. @ L.T.

    Some people are just tactless idiots. I find myself astonished by the number of white guys who just blurt out stuff that is either racist, sexist, or just plain stupid. I just hope people are sensible enough to realize that these people are just morons an no representative of the rest of us.

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  69. @Benjamin

    I do understand that some people simply don’t realize what they’re saying comes off as rude and vulgar, but if I get asked one more time if my female part is slanted, I’m going to haul off and deck someone.

    Like


  70. When white woman date white man, do they have a white fetish? When black people date black people do they have a black fetish? So why do one race person has an other race fetish when he or she dates another race person? how about red hear partners, frecled partners, short, long etc. People who tell other people have a race fetish generalise and just show they are very limited in their observations.

    Like


  71. It’s just some guys like the features of Asian chicks — jeeze, everyone should stop making such a big deal.

    I know so many guys that are into blondes, and if you really questioned them, you could probably identify a specific ethnic heritage that especially turns them on (Scandinavian, Anglos-Saxon, etc.). Nobody has a problem with this.

    However, if a guy is attracted to people of Asian descent, he gets crucified…

    Like


  72. @Cat/i have heard that argument, and what gives the listener the rub is that if you want short, slender, youthful face and long hair, well guess what you can find women in all races that fit that description. you want traditional, soft spoken again that can be found in all races.
    personally when i hear people speak the “i only date x”, it is usually a clue that the person has not been properly socialized.

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  73. It is also more acceptable for Asian women and white men to marry each other than for either to marry black or Latino

    Why is marrying a white man more acceptable? White men are nothing special. Asian men are way hotter than white men. White men created the nerd stereotype along with alot of other Asian male stereotypes to draw all Asian women to them. It seems like white men have brainwashed some Asians into believing that marrying a white man is better than marrying another minority. White men are evil and racist and will do anything to get what they want.

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  74. Asian men are way hotter than white men.

    You’re the first black woman I’ve ever heard say that.

    Like


  75. Regarding the Asian fetish thing, I don’t know if you guys are aware, but there is a joke (not mine) about the type of WM who goes out with AW exclusively and vice versa. The WM tends to be some loser type of fellow that can’t get WW to save his life so he goes after AW. As for the AW, she is either unattractive or fat (again, not my words) and so no AM wants her so she meets up with a WM.

    Like


  76. And it’s true like one said…that MANY, MANY (not all ) Asian women go out of their way to meet and marry White men. It’s marrying up and to White men it’s like tasting something fresh, “exotic” and different without the whole package being something that society would deem “out” of the norm.

    It’s not just Asian women. It’s pretty much ALL non-white women except for perhaps black women that view marrying a white man as marrying up. In Latin America, they have a phrase parents often tell their kids “mejorando la raza”, which means “improving the race”. They are telling their kids to marry white or as close to it as they can get as this will “improve” their race. And obviously marrying black is the opposite of that.

    You can learn a lot about racial psychology by studying interracial dating patterns. Human value is very much attached to race. It’s not overtly taught in most cases, but it is subtly socially reinforced. An Asian woman may marry a black, but he has to be far above and beyond the average white man in looks, wealth and social status to “make up for” the fact that he’s black. Especially knowing that the shit is going to hit the fan when her parents find out. When traveling in Thailand, I wish I had a dollar for every slimeball, looser looking white guy saw walking around with an Asian women. For Asian women, the white guy is an upgrade. For a white guy who may not be great looking or have much success with white women, he can take advantage of this by dating “ethnic” women who over-value his whiteness and overlook other negative factors. To me that explains the bulk of the WM/AF thing. Asian women that want to socially upgrade and white men that probably have no success getting attractive white women, so they get they go for the next best thing.

    Like


  77. Leigh, I was just typing up what you said before I even saw it. We’re on the same wavelength.

    Like


  78. @Leaveumthinking:

    Asian men are way hotter than white men.

    That’s quite the declaration. I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone say that about Asian men…ever. Cool. 😀

    White men created the nerd stereotype along with alot of other Asian male stereotypes to draw all Asian women to them.

    It’s interesting you mention that. There are typical stereotypes of Asian men being weak and scrawny, but then they know some form of martial art and have muscles. Seriously, what gives?

    It seems like white men have brainwashed some Asians into believing that marrying a white man is better than marrying another minority.

    In many parts of Asia, white men are pretty much placed on a pedestal. Sadly, quite a few Asians think this as well.

    Like


  79. It’s interesting you mention that. There are typical stereotypes of Asian men being weak and scrawny, but then they know some form of martial art and have muscles. Seriously, what gives?

    But the thing is, how many Asian men have become champs in boxing or MMA? I can only think of Pacquiao.

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  80. @tulio:

    Leigh, I was just typing up what you said before I even saw it. We’re on the same wavelength.

    Here’s an example of what I was referring to in my previous post about WM being with AW.

    http://philawdelphia.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/asian-dating-white-interracial-dating-couple.png

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  81. @tulio:

    It’s interesting you mention that. There are typical stereotypes of Asian men being weak and scrawny, but then they know some form of martial art and have muscles. Seriously, what gives?

    But the thing is, how many Asian men have become champs in boxing or MMA? I can only think of Pacquiao.

    My point is, AM are pretty much stereotyped as wimps. While Pacquiao is well known today, don’t forget there was also Bruce Lee. He kicked major butt in his day. I don’t think he would be regarded as weak/scrawny, no?

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  82. @tulie:

    When traveling in Thailand, I wish I had a dollar for every slimeball, looser looking white guy saw walking around with an Asian women.

    Those white men (probably old, overweight, and/or ugly) you saw in Thailand had Asian “girlfriends” because they basically paid for them. Another thing, some of those young Thai women may be playing those guys. They’re thinking, “Ooh, another sucker. Maybe I can get some money or use them to get a green card”.

    Like


  83. Hello ladies and gentlemen,

    If you want to read deeper into why whites divide and conquer people of color to maintain their power, read no further than the article in Color Q World regarding white opposition to IR couples of Color:

    ________________________________________

    White Reactions to Interracial Unions Between People of Color
    Many people react negatively to seeing a member of their ethnic group with a member of another ethnic group. To play devil’s advocate, let’s claim the “what is one of our women/men doing with an outsider?” reaction is almost “natural”. Hold your flames. I am NOT against interracial unions. I am just stating that it is not incomprehensible that people (of any race) might feel, rightly or wrongly, that they should stick with their own kind.

    The strange thing is, for some whites, this negative reaction to interracial unions extends beyond white/non-white couples. For example, I had a conversation with a man who was 3/4 white and 1/4 Amerindian. He is very proud of his heritage. He looks white. He remarks that his siblings look more Indian. I mentioned that I had a friend who was 1/8 Indian. He asked, “So what does she look like?”

    I said she looks more like her father’s family, and the Indian blood is from her mother’s side. As I described my friend, it became apparent to this guy that my part-Indian friend is also black. He suddenly became silent and appeared uncomfortable.

    I was somewhat surprised at this response because he was so enthusiastic about this topic just a moment ago. I could only surmise that he was uncomfortable with the idea of a black-Indian hybrid, and by extension, unions between blacks and Indians. This is ironic because he himself is a white-Indian mix, so why should he not be as excited about a black-Indian mix?

    If there had only been one such incident, it would not have registered with me. But since then I’ve encountered multiple incidents like this. For example, I hear whites say stuff like, “It is strange to see a black man with an Asian woman,” but the same whites NEVER say, “It is weird to see a white man with an Asian woman.” In fact, some of the white men who make these remarks date Asian women themselves. So why do they regard themselves differently from those black men who date Asians?

    I have not personally witnessed it, but I have heard of black-Asian couples encountering more explicit forms of white disapproval. This disapproval is incomprehensible to me because what has a black man-Asian woman couple got to do with white people anyway? Nothing! The ‘purity’ of the European bloodline is not at stake here. The ‘usual’ excuse of “We disapprove of this couple because the white person is not sticking with us” clearly cannot apply in this case. So what could be the reasoning behind these whites who disapprove of black-Asian or black-Amerindian couples?

    This is why I read with interest the comment “the yellow woman is considered the white man’s exclusive toy, and he is not willing to share this toy with other men of any color” in this site’s review of The Art of War. So by inference, some so-called open-minded whites who “approve” of interracial unions really only approve of specific interracial combinations that suit their sexual fantasies? That article has shed light on some of the questions I had been asking.

    I have often wondered at the reactions of white people to certain interracial couples. I did notice white men who seemed uncomfortable with the idea of white women dating Asian men. The interesting thing is, some of these same white men date Asian women.

    For example, a white boy J. was excited telling me about the movie Romeo Must Die. He said there was one scene he found hilarious – the part where Jet Li unmasks an assassin and exclaims, “You’re Chinese!”, to which the lady assassin replies, “No shit!”. Now I knew some things he didn’t because I have many friends from Hong Kong who fill me in on Hong Kong movies and actors. The actress who played the lady assassin in Romeo Must Die is Francoise Yip, daughter of a Chinese Canadian man and a French Canadian woman. I thought it was amusing (not in a derogatory way) that she plays the “quintessential” Chinese in that particular scene in Romeo Must Die. So I thought I’d share this detail with the white boy J., thinking it would enhance the joke he already apparently enjoyed so much. I said, “Actually, that Chinese actress is half-French, her mother is French.” Instantly, the smile receded from his face and he fell into silence. He is usually such a garrulous talker who likes to go on and on about how much he “loves international people”. I was surprised at his sudden change in attitude. I can only surmise that he was bothered by the thought that a white woman had made a child with a yellow man, a fact of which this biracial actress was the living proof. The odd thing is, J himself at that time had a Chinese woman as sex partner/girlfriend. It is typical that white men want to enjoy the bodies of yellow women, but do not want yellow men to date white women.

    I also suspect some white men who like Asian women are displeased to see non-white men being with Asian women (even in a movie) because they cannot identify with the male character. Like the article posted on your site said, they considered the yellow woman their exclusive toy which they will not share with other men. At the same time, they don’t like to see white women being with other men because they still consider white women their property.

    This double standard in interracial dating is something that we should be ashamed of holding. If we are going to pretend to be “open-minded” and “love diversity”, while in reality encouraging only the kind of interracial unions that suit our stereotypes and exotic fantasies (or at least not threaten our fantasies), I think we are better off not having interracial unions at all. Again, I repeat I am NOT against interracial couples. I just believe that white men (or anyone for that matter) who pass themselves off as “racially open-minded” when they really just want an “exotic” partner do greater disservice to interracial relations than those who don’t date interracially.

    _______________________________________________

    What are your thoughts?

    La Reyna

    Like


  84. I’m so disgusted of those white male perverts going to third world countries to take advantage of young children. They ought to be ashamed of themselves, but then again, it’s that disgusting white male entitlement of taking advantage of people of Color. I can see why people of Color are distrustful of white people and their intentions and are standing up against such outrage and insults.

    La Reyna

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  85. Asian men are way hotter than white men.

    I second Leaveumthinking. I too find Asian men attractive, hell I find lots of men attractive being the she-devil that I am. In general, I find racialized men more attractive than white men. Of course being a she-devil, there are some white men I find attractive but not as overwhelmingly as racialized men. The white men I do find attractive have full lips, are swarthy etc, traits in common with racialized men. The Northern European look in general does not appeal to me as much. However, there are exceptions to everyone’s personal rules. My fantasy is to have a harem of male doxies LOL!

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  86. “My fantasy is to have a harem of male doxies.”

    lol. I don’t think you’re alone in that dream. I too think Asian men are very attractive and agree with Leigh – some are very strong and masculine due to their arts. On top of that, it takes a lot of discipline and focus to succeed in martial arts. It’s not just about two brutes fighting each other.

    I can tell you as someone with an AM boyfriend, that discipline and focus is great in all other aspects of life and relationships. 😉

    Like


  87. @Herneith:

    That’s a great fantasy. Hehe. 😉

    Some of these men even go so far as to learn all things Asian. It all comes off as kind of creepy.

    It IS creepy. Some of them become deeply involved in anime or manga, even trying to learn some Asian phrase or greeting. It’s lame imho.

    Like


  88. Asian men are way hotter than white men.

    Agreed, Leaveumthingking. Men of color and dark ethnic white men(Italians, Greeks, Portuguese) are way more attractive and appealing than Waspy men. Yet, society wants people to believe that all women are drawn to white men, which is a myth and a lie in the first place.

    I’ve always been attractive to men of Color and there’s nothing wrong with it. It’s white supremcist mindset that demonize men of Color needs to be abolished.

    La Reyna

    Like


  89. I can tell you as someone with an AM boyfriend, that discipline and focus is great in all other aspects of life and relationships.

    Another ‘myth’ busted, LoL. I have a dirty mind so I assume you are referring to the ‘romantic’ aspects?

    Like


  90. uuuhh ~ yeah! I know tmi, but it has to be said.lol

    Like


  91. ha ha, wow, the sheer brilliance here. I don’t even know where to begin. If white men created the stereotype about asian men then who created the stereotype about black men as being hung like a horse? Let me guess, because white men want to steer black women away from them so they will like black men more. But then, wouldn’t white women and asian women like black men more too? Do any of you think before you type or do you just type the first thing that comes into your heads?

    And you people want to ban someone like no_slappz? Ever tried looking at yourselves?

    Like


  92. Believe it or not, there are plenty of black men and latino men that have a thing for asian women. I guess its because white men “told” them they should. For those of you that don’t like white men, that’s fine. It’s called an “anything-but-white fetish.” Don’t worry, it’s ok to be racist against white people, that doesn’t count.

    Like


  93. The “anything-but-white fetish” is also known as the “fear of white people.”

    Like


  94. “The “anything-but-white fetish” is also known as “sick of white people.”

    There fixed that for you.

    It’s not a fetish to prefer men of color. It’s called taste.

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  95. If white men created the stereotype about asian men then who created the stereotype about black men as being hung like a horse?

    White men! They sought to keep white women out of the black men’s bed, didn’t work!

    But then, wouldn’t white women and asian women like black men more too?

    But they do, the white women already, and Asian women more and more. Unfortunately, there is not enough black men to go around. As the majority of marriages are intra-racial among black people this is doubly so. Black women get first dibs.

    Do any of you think before you type or do you just type the first thing that comes into your heads?

    Why should anyone else when you don’t! I think this is a case of sour grapes a play here, you doth protest to much!

    The “anything-but-white fetish” is also known as the “fear of white people.”

    I don’t have a fear of white people, however, I can’t speak for others. I do however, have a fear of flying, and no, not the Erica Jong ‘Fear of Flying’.

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  96. Believe it or not, there are plenty of black men and latino men that have a thing for asian women.

    I like Filipino girls quite a bit.

    Like


  97. Hey, I’m Asian-Canadian, but I think that’s common knowledge by now. 😉

    Like


  98. Johnson is just mad because he doesn’t feel entitled anymore. He’s out here to make trouble and is a racist and sexist fool.

    La Reyna

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  99. To be honest, most trolls who come here are racist and sexist white men who are angry that they don’t have the right to exploit people of color. They’re deeply racist. That’s why Black women and most other women don’t want them because they’re insecure and racist/sexist, don’t treat women well.

    La Reyna

    Like


  100. Johnson,

    We like men of color. They’re my father, brother, uncles, cousins. Why would I turn my back on my people to satisfy your white supremacist fetish? If you don’t like what I say, you have a problem like a lot of entitled racist white men in America.

    La Reyna

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  101. can you say hypocrite? if I use your exact words and replace white with black and women with man or vice versa, I’m a “white racist bigot troll.” you are all fools. white people did not brainwash you into hating yourselves. you brainwashed yourselves into thinking white people hate you. why? because you want them to. its true that there are lots of white racists. but even if hypothetically every white person could turn around and start kissing your asses every day, you wouldn’t want it because you wouldn’t be able to feel sorry for yourselves anymore. you like thinking white people are against you.

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  102. What you people are saying makes no sense. Your saying that white men are racist because they won’t date black women. But most of you are saying you don’t like white men, its not your preference. What the hell? That’s like blaming someone for not giving you something you don’t want. Nice circular logic.

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  103. are today’s black panthers any different than the kkk? explain to me how.

    Like


  104. for the record, the leader of the black panthers recently agreed that all white people should be eliminated from earth. if you agree with this, you are an inbred hick troll with a banjo. you are literally the pot calling the kettle black (no pun intended.) you have physically turned into everything you fear and hate.

    Like


  105. oh well, I guess black women are just the same as those blond bimbos after all. one more minute in this place and I’ll kill myself. good for you though, one less white boy to worry about.

    Like


  106. we’ll miss you johnson .

    Like


  107. It seems that Johnson used to call himself Orchid. He switched on December 3rd. Here is his last comment as Orchid:

    https://abagond.wordpress.com/2009/11/06/the-white-inventor-argument/#comment-29556

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  108. How can you tell abagond? Checked his IP address?

    Like


  109. I made a post about something called the THREE BEARS EFFECT look at the sterotypes of asian men being weak and nerdy and having small penis size and then look at the sterotypes that exist abou black men being ‘hung’ and sexually agressive and stupid they are polar oppisite and white men and right in the middle and as Goldilocks would say “Just right”

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  110. Johnson said:

    “white people did not brainwash you into hating yourselves. you brainwashed yourselves into thinking white people hate you. why? because you want them to.”

    In America whites control the schools, the schoolbooks and television, all of them filled with their white racist worldview. If you are white, it just helps to make you more racist. If you are not it leads to internalized racism: you either wind up hating or doubting yourself or you go through a period where you have to unlearn the lies. The unlearning is rarely complete. For whites the unlearning is extremely rare.

    More here:

    https://abagond.wordpress.com/2009/11/25/internalized-racism/

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  111. Aiyo:

    The model minority stereotype about Asians is also a mirror-image of black stereotypes. I even made a chart:

    https://abagond.wordpress.com/2008/05/20/the-model-minority-stereotype/

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  112. @Aiyo:

    I made a post about something called the THREE BEARS EFFECT look at the sterotypes of asian men being weak and nerdy and having small penis size and then look at the sterotypes that exist abou black men being ‘hung’ and sexually agressive and stupid they are polar oppisite and white men and right in the middle and as Goldilocks would say “Just right”

    Makes a lot of sense. Good analogy.

    Like


  113. Leigh:

    Right, I checked Johnson’s IP address. That IP address has also had commenters called Isaac and Hitler Juice – it is possible they were someone else but probably not. The switch from Orchid to Johnson was like a half hour – way too quick for that IP address to be given to someone else. He is from the same town as you, oddly enough.

    Like


  114. @Aiyo

    You’re right about “three bears effect”. It also works for women, I think. No matter how much some white people like Asian women (for being gentle, submissive, etc), there’s still belief that “write is just right”. Black women= too aggressive, Asian women = too submissive, white women = just right.

    All the people who go only for one race when there are people of all races in their society (especially if it’s not their own race they’re after), look a bit dishonest to me. On the other hand, I don’t think people should stick to their own race either, but I try to understand people who do this.

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  115. @abagond

    Leigh:

    Right, I checked Johnson’s IP address. That IP address has also had commenters called Isaac and Hitler Juice – it is possible they were someone else but probably not. The switch from Orchid to Johnson was like a half hour – way too quick for that IP address to be given to someone else. He is from the same town as you, oddly enough.

    Now this is becoming quite interesting. And I thought I was the only one. Hmph. ;-P

    Like


  116. Johnson said:

    “If white men created the stereotype about asian men then who created the stereotype about black men as being hung like a horse? Let me guess, because white men want to steer black women away from them so they will like black men more. But then, wouldn’t white women and asian women like black men more too? Do any of you think before you type or do you just type the first thing that comes into your heads?”

    Just because it does not make sense does not mean it is not true. Whites made up the stereotype about black men – ask them. I think it goes back to fears of slave owners about their white wives and their black male slaves. And, as Aiyo points out, Asian stereotypes tend to be the opposite of whatever the black stereotype is – becauser it is whites who are making this stuff up.

    I have not yet written about the black buck stereotype (black men as hung like a horse), but I do talk about it a bit here:

    https://abagond.wordpress.com/2008/05/06/the-pure-white-woman/

    Like


  117. Leigh:

    I used one of those two images you gave the links for. It is now the lead picture for the post (scroll up!). Sunghi Lee is beautiful (the woman’s whose picture was there before), but this picture is just too creeptastic to pass up!

    Like


  118. Aiyo:

    That was an excellent post. Here is the full link (for when it is no longer on the homepage):

    http://blackbritishgirl.blogspot.com/2010/01/three-bears-effect_12.html

    Like


  119. @abagond:

    Leigh:

    I used one of those two images you gave the links for. It si now the lead picture for the post (scroll up!). Sunghi Lee is beautiful (the woman’s whose picture was there before), but this picture is just too creeptastic to pass up!

    Oh, by all means, please do. I’ve seen this particular banner ad frequently popping up whenever I visit an Asian site. I’ve always found it annoying and creepy to boot.

    Like


  120. Yes the Asian sterotypes are the polar opposites of the black sterotypes and they were both designed to make white people look perfect becasue they not the extermes they are just right.

    I belive that you can always spot people with fetishes becasue they feel that they have to justify their reason for dating that person.

    “I date Asian women because….(insert aof stereotype)” If it were really just a preference you wouldn’t have to justify it right? Can’t the answer just be simple as “I am attracted to this woman/man.”

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  121. @Abagond

    I have not yet written about the black buck stereotype (black men as hung like a horse)

    Do you want to write about it? I think it’s a good subject for the post.

    This is interesting subject (no people, not because of “that!”), at least to me, because it’s one of the rare stereotype about black people that exist in my culture, so I finally understand what you’re talking about.

    I even know some people who think black men were the one who invented that stereotype because they’re racist and want to discriminate white men… It’s very difficult to explain people why such a stereotype is NOT a compliment (at least I don’t think it is). I see it as something racist, yes, but against black people, not white ones. And I even know some girls who’d love to meet a black man and be with him to “see if it’s true”, because they’re sooooo attracted to black men (even though, like me, none of them ever met one), just because of this stereotype. It can seem like a plain racist thing, but it’s actually more than that: it’s a form of “woman liberation” thing… If a woman wants to show she’s independent girl who doesn’t buy patriarchal society crap, she’s going to talk about sex and “size does matter” thing. It’s disrespectful.

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  122. @Aiyo:

    I belive that you can always spot people with fetishes becasue they feel that they have to justify their reason for dating that person.

    “I date Asian women because….(insert aof stereotype)” If it were really just a preference you wouldn’t have to justify it right? Can’t the answer just be simple as “I am attracted to this woman/man.”

    Some of my girlfriends have told me they avoid men who say, “I date Asian women because….” They’re wary of these guys as they don’t see AW as individuals.

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  123. “I have not yet written about the black buck stereotype (black men as hung like a horse)”

    yeah do a post on that, make sure you do use a appropriate picture though.

    Like


  124. I co-sign with peanut about doing a post on the black buck stereotype.

    Like


  125. Yep next post the Black buck sterotype

    @Mira
    People actually think Black men created the sterotype of black men being hyper sexual and being bigger. LOL

    All one has to do is go to the Jim Crow museum website and see it was white people who made that up to uphold the pure white woman sterotype so they can protect white women from being destroyed by the Black penis.

    The whole emaculation of Asian men were how they were viewd by American whites because they were shorter and did ‘women work’ and how they wore their hair in a long braid (see Jackie Chan in Shanghai Noon)

    Also I read somewhere on how Asian males were viewed as brutish as well how during the war there was propaganda of how they were drugging white women with opium

    Like


  126. @Tulio

    Asian men are way hotter than white men.

    You’re the first black woman I’ve ever heard say that.

    The majority of Black women I know prefer Black men, but I also know quite a few Black women who find Asian men attractive including myself.

    Like


  127. I highly recommend the Jim Crow Museum:

    http://www.ferris.edu/JIMCROW/

    Like


  128. All one has to do is go to the Jim Crow museum website and see it was white people who made that up to uphold the pure white woman sterotype so they can protect white women from being destroyed by the Black penis.

    True, but it doesn’t change the fact many men in my culture consider “big penis” to be the highest compliment one can give to a male human being.

    I must admit I find black men more attractive than Asian men (well, if you can say that without any personal experience with any of them). I must admit I don’t know if that’s just a personal preference or media influence.

    Jim Crow Museum is a must-read for everyone. I always cry when I remember one particular image from that site. It’s not the worst one out there, but it always make me cry.

    Like


  129. I also find asian men attractive the guys i date are usually black or asian

    Like


  130. Mira
    Jim Crow Museum is a must-read for everyone. I always cry when I remember one particular image from that site. It’s not the worst one out there, but it always make me cry.

    You cry because you are a good person.

    Like


  131. Mira:

    Which picture was it?

    Like


  132. Wow, this really got away from the topic of Asian fetish and I don’t want to be off topic . . . but I’m going to be.

    Since it’s late I’ll make this quick and if Abagond makes the post about the “Black Buck” stereotype then I’ll definitely have more to say.

    The “Three Bears Effect” that Aiyo brought up is definitely real and something that has been used before to “scientifically” explain the differences in the races physically (read sexually) and mentally. J. Philippe Rushton wrote a book, Race, Evolution and Behavior (1995) applying the r/k continuum (usually applied to animals about the quantity and quality of mate selection and offspring) to humans. To summarize: the bigger the brain, the smaller the penis (k) and vice versa (r). In his theory you get one guess as to who is on the “k” end of the spectrum and who is “r”. Guess who’s in the middle.

    Like


  133. @Herneith
    I second Leaveumthinking. I too find Asian men attractive, hell I find lots of men attractive being the she-devil that I am. In general, I find racialized men more attractive than white men. Of course being a she-devil, there are some white men I find attractive but not as overwhelmingly as racialized men. The white men I do find attractive have full lips, are swarthy etc, traits in common with racialized men. The Northern European look in general does not appeal to me as much. However, there are exceptions to everyone’s personal rules. My fantasy is to have a harem of male doxies LOL!

    I think . . . I think you know my mind. Male harems . . . .

    Like


  134. @abagond

    Mira:

    Which picture was it?

    The one with baby drinking ink, with title, n…. milk.

    There are many, many worse images out there, and yet, that’s the one that always makes me cry. I am not sure why. The innocence of the baby, baby’s little hands, the idea someone thought it was funny, the idea that it could be my child ridiculed in such a way… I don’t know… I am not sure, there are far worse images, and yet, this is the one that I find the most disturbing.

    Leaveumthinking

    You cry because you are a good person.

    Thank you for your kind words. To be honest, I don’t know how to define it… I don’t think of myself that way. But this sort of things disgust me, and I feel deeply ashamed for being human. Some would say it’s a white guilt, but I say it’s more of a human guilt.

    The worse thing is, I have no idea how to stop that kind of things, how to make it better- not me as a person, but humans in general. A person can learn and be good, but humans as a whole will never learn.

    Abagond, I am aware this post is 100% offtopic. I just needed to say this. Please don’t delete my comment. I’ll stick to the subject from now on.

    Like


  135. I have a East Asian Woman fetish! 😉
    I have a Black Woman fetish! 😉
    I have a White Woman fetish! 😉
    I have a South Asian Woman fetish! 😉
    I have a Native American Woman fetish! 😉

    Save the discrimination of races when it come to sexual partners for women!

    I’m a man! I love women in all theie colours! LOL! 🙂

    Like


  136. Eh. Vindicator, I think “fetish” is a key word here.

    Like


  137. LOL! I was looking for some photos to draw. I’m an artist. I came across this site and decided to have a ‘look-see.’ I was amazed! I rarely come across sites where race is so openly discussed. Just to ‘stir the pot’ I’m 1/2 Indian, 1/4 Black, 1/4 Jewish, Catholic, male, and married to an Asian woman whom I love very much, a writer and aforementioned artist. So I guess I ‘qualify’ for give my ‘two cents’ to this type of website. LOL! Anyway I’ll see what happens. LOL!

    Like


  138. I was in Manhattan yesterday and I saw 7 interracial couples. All 7 were a White Man with an Asian Women. I felt like I was in The Twilight Zone.

    Like


  139. LOL @ Vindicator!

    They’re all pink on the inside, man.

    [ducking and covering…]

    Like


  140. Funny… I don’t know a single white dude that actually has a particular preference for Asians. But I know several Asians, male and female, who prefer whites. It’s the Asians with the fetish. Go to japan sometime and watch the women throw themselves at foreign guys…

    The author of this article clearly doesn’t have much experience with… Life.

    Like


  141. I think Asian women created this whole facade of being victims of White men with Asian fetish.I guess it’s a way for Asian women to feel desired and wanted.It’s safe to say that Asian women have White fetish but won’t admit it.I know White men who have dated Asian women and also date women of other groups.You will find more Asian women who will claim to only date White men,compare to White men who only date Asian women.Btw this phenomenon is not that big in Europe.In Europe you find more White women with Asian women,versus White men with Asian women,Japanese,Chinese etc………….

    Here’s an article on that topic.

    Columbia study on racial preferences in dating

    In 2007 economist Ray Fisman, in a two-year study he co-authored on dating preferences among Columbia University students, did not find evidence of a general preference among white men for Asian women. Furthermore, the study found that there is a significantly higher pairing of white men with East Asian women simply because East Asian women discriminate racially against black and hispanic men. As quoted on Slate.com, and also reported in the Washington Post [1] and The Review of Economic Studies [2] (a publication of the London School of Economics and Political Science [3] ):[14]
    “ We found no evidence of the stereotype of a white male preference for East Asian women. However, we also found that East Asian women did not discriminate against white men (only against black and Hispanic men). As a result, the white man-Asian woman pairing was the most common form of interracial dating—but because of the women’s neutrality, not the men’s pronounced preference. Men don’t seem to discriminate based on race when it comes to dating. A woman’s race had no effect on the men’s choices. ”
    The study was carried out over two years and was conducted by economists Ray Fisman (lead researcher from Columbia University) and Emir Kamenica (University of Chicago), as well as psychologists Sheena Iyengar (Columbia University) and Itamar Simonson (Stanford). They took data from “thousands of decisions made by more than 400 daters from Columbia University’s various graduate and professional schools.” [

    Like


  142. I also notice that majority of the White men with Asian women in the U.S. are Jewish men.

    Like


  143. This was posted on another site:

    Dummy’s Guide to Asian Girls with White Fever

    The WHIGGIE (White Guy Groupie)
    A brief profile of Asian girls afflicted with “White Fever”
    ORIGINS: A subset of women of Asian ethnicity, usually found residing in major U.S. cities, although they have been known to appear overseas occasionally. Closely related to their cousins, Yellow Cabs (Japan), Gwei-Po’s (Hong Kong), Sarong Party girls (Singapore), Twinkies and Bananas.

    NOT TO BE CONUSED WITH: Intelligent, emotionally-secure women who are free of identity problems, self-hate, racial prejudice and chips on their shoulders.

    CHARACTER TRAITS
    – Poorly developed self-identity. Pathetically insecure with themselves and their ethnicity.
    – Resentment of father’s traditional, authoritarian upbringing (whether real or perceived).
    – Brainwashed into believing that they, as AF’s, are more desirable than other women in exotic lotus blossom kinda way. Willingness to pander to western media sexual stereotypes of AF’s, which they perceive as marketing advantage.
    – Thoroughly whitewashed. Desperate need to fit into “mainstream” (i.e. white) society and to distance themselves from their Asian heritage. Racial inferiority complex.
    – Feigned air of superiority when dealing with members of own race and any other minority groups. In need of major attitude adjustments.
    – Exaggerated, whiny, Encino-esque valley girl accent.
    – Delusions of grandeur… “I want it all…and that begins with the right (i.e. white) guy…” Asian-American princess complex.
    – Uncanny ability of determine one’s nationality, occupation, earning capacity and make of auto within three minutes of commencing a conversation.
    – Exaggerated perception of white males’ value in increasing AF’s social status.
    – Ignorant and narrow-minded, eager to adopt and perpetuate fallacious western media stereotypes of Asian men.
    – A compulsion to trash Asians, particularly Asian men, in order to justify their autoracist tendencies, placate their guilt and bolster their self-esteem.
    – Extremely shallow, self-centered, argumentative and boring.
    – Disdains ethnic studies; regards it as a major threat to her carefully constructed, self-deceptive whiggie identity.
    – Despises all Asian men, with the occasional exception of their brothers (after all, they share the same genes.
    – Believes that racism does not exist because she, as an AF, has never experienced it first hand, or is too dense to realize it. Besides, those Asiaphiles are so nice to her (while plotting to get into her pants.
    – Gets a warm fuzzy feeling when watching The Joy Luck Club, while snuggled up to her geeky Asiaphile boyfriend.
    – Believes that the only reason an Asian person would disrespect her is because they are racist.
    – Has lost count of how many WM’s she’s done this month.
    – The wet-dream come true for socially-handicapped Caucasian nerds who are unable to attract Caucasian women.
    – Threatened and insecure in the presence of any culturally-perceptive Asian person or any AM not fitting her stereotype of the quiet , marginalized, “model minority” geek.
    – Fundamentally insecure, utterly confused, lacking in self respect.
    – Many aging whiggies, after being used and abandoned by WM’s in favor of younger, more nubile whiggies and being rejected by AM’s who see through their transparency, develop a bitterness towards all men, period.
    – Denial of all of the above.
    FACIAL EXPRESSIONS: a) Look of contempt when eyes meet those of any non-white male, converting to beaming grin upon sighting of WM victim/target; b) terminal pout or c) bimboish expression that defies deep thought.
    TYPICAL ATTIRE: Anything trendy, mainstream-looking and seductive (especially if it’s black and tight). Big hair (perhaps their most valuable asset) tossed with hand every 15 seconds. Wonderbra. Fanatical whiggies have been known to undergo certain procedures such as eyelid surgery, breast augmentation and vaginal tightening operations in order to increase their marketability to WM’s. Blue contact lenses and bleached blonde hair have even been sported on occasion. Note: Attire may vary depending on the specific type of WM being targeted.
    I.Q: Too low to measure.
    NATURAL HABITAT:
    Personal ad columns (“exotic, slim, SAF seeks successful, generous SWM”), cheerleading squads, sorority houses (role: token “oriental sisters”), T.V. newsdesks, B-grade Kung-Fu flicks, trendy nightclubs (usually found necking with aging WM’s), Chinese restaurants (slumming with the WM and demonstrating that she’s “in touch with her heritage”), anywhere else frequented by White males.
    TYPICAL WHIGGIE QUIPS:
    Age 10: “Mom, why do we have to be (Chinese/Japanese/Korean)? Do you have to dress like that? And what’s with Dad and his accent?
    Age 12: “Mom, I want an eyelid job for Christmas, okay?
    Later on…
    “I’ve always only dated white guys. I don’t know why, I just have.”
    “Race doesn’t matter. I just happen to like white guys. It’s just a preference.”
    “We are the world, we are the children…We…”
    “I’ve gone out with all kinds of guys…Dutch, English, French, German, you name it. Even went out with a Jewish guy once! After all, love is color blind.”
    “Eeeew, Jennifer, how could you go out with that (insert minority group here) guy!?” Totally gross!
    “Oooh Roger, you’re like soooo strong and intelligent. Did you say you drive a beemer? Kewl! (giggle).”
    “I want to learn English better…you maybe teach, handsome man? Are you U.S. citizen?” (Yes FOB’s can be whiggies too!)
    “Like why would I want to go out with an Asian guy? They don’t own me or anything. Uhh, and besides they are all male chauvinist …and domineering too…yeah that’s it! Didn’t you see The Joy Luck Club?”
    Like, I’m dating *out* of my race, so how can I be racists?!! Duh!!
    CLOSELY RELATED TO: Racists, bigots, wannabes, ho’s, chameleons, white supremacists, a fish out of water.
    MEDIA REPRESENTATION/ROLE MODELS: Connie Chung, Amy Tan, Lisa Ling, Margaret Cho, Sheryl Wu Dunn, any of The Joy Luck Club protagonists (except the one who married an Asian dude).
    NATURAL COUNTERPARTS: Asiaphiles…who else?

    Like


  144. If White men have this huge Asian fetish,how come the Asian woman is not the ideal beauty in Western society?

    How come Asian women are having plastic surgery in attempt to look more White?

    Some movies that one should watch.

    Titles: She’s out my league

    Like


  145. SOOOO….. I am white and I date asian women sometimes. Listen up for all you creepy weirdos that thrive on making that into some kind of animal-like robotic obsession with Asian women:

    -> I AM NOT OBSESSED WITH ASIAN WOMEN.
    -> I AM NOT OBSESSED WITH ASIA.
    -> I AM NOT TRYING TO PUT DOWN ASIAN MEN.
    -> IF I AM ATTRACTED TO AN ASIAN WOMAN, I WILL DATE HER.
    -> IF I AM NOT, THEN I WILL NOT.

    I REPEAT. I AM NOT OBSESSED WITH ASIAN WOMEN!!

    What is so completely creepy about asian women (sometimes) is when I am out somewhere and I accidently glance at one of you self-fetishing asian women, and you look at me like “Oh no! the white boy is obsessed with me!! Oh God! Get away!! OH JEEPERS!!!!”

    LOL.. as if I really give a crap whether you like me or not?? But what I _DO_ care about is WHY you are actually reacting that way!!

    The funny thing is that many times the girl is completely homely. (Btw- here’s another myth: _ALL_ asian women are hot. LOL. Newsflash: there are just as many ugly-dog asian women as in any other race. Um……………. sorry. But that’s the plain truth. You force the plain truth when you insist that everyone is obsessed and fetishizing over you.)

    YEP. It is so completely creepy when asian women look at me that way. So many times these women are not even attractive at all. But they have swallowed the “All white boys are obsessed with me because I have dark hair and dark eyes” mythology.

    UM. NO. SORRY. Here’s the truth for you asian women that have drunk the kool-aid fed to you by your self-obsessed asian female friends, and/or your insecure asian male brothers and friends:: If you are ugly, noone will be obsessed with you.

    If you are beautiful…. but obsessed with yourself? Welllll………. then you are back to ugly….. sorry bout that. No amount of make-up, and having a body like a twig, makes up for how ugly being self-obsessed makes you.

    Sorry.

    Arrogance is ugly.

    Conceit is creepy and nasty.

    And its’ all VERRRY creepy when you inscribe it onto ME!!! Yukkkk.

    Bottom line is that many asian are self-fetishizing creepy weirdos. You (sometimes) are absolutely obsessed with yourselves. And you simply CANNOT understand why the whole world would not be the same.

    Soooooo…….In the process of believing this creepy lie (that everyone is obsessed with you), you INSCRIBE YOUR OWN SELF-FETISH ONTO WHITE MEN!!!!! Me!!!

    Ugh…

    Now, we all know that some people have fetishes for different races. It’s no secret that *some* asian women dig white guys. So who cares???? Sometimes asian women dig black guys for the “hung” stereotype…. Um.. who cares??????? Sometimes white guys have a thing for tall scandanavian women with silvery blond hair and piercing blue eyes…. UM. SO WHAT????????? And yes, a few here and there might have a “thing” for asians….. Um. Who gives a care???????

    But what is so gross is how asians de-humanize only ONE KIND of specific attraction: White males who are attracted to asian women. Yup. We are animals who like asian women just because they are… uh. .. asian. Yeh. That’s what you think. It’s almost like there is NO OTHER ATTRACTION THAT MATTERS… and if there is a “fetish” then the ONLY ONE THAT EXISTS is the one that white men supposedly have for asian women.

    And of course, this is related to the myth that the most beautiful women are, you guessed it, Asian. LOL. It’s as if there are just no gorgeous non-Asian women in the world! Again, I’m just chuckling here.

    I smell conceit, arrogance and self-fetish again. And it smells like a bathroom!!!

    Um. No. If I like an asian woman, it is because I am attracted to her emotionally, physically, and mentally. First of all, if she is pudgy (many asian women are not FAT perse, but pudgy) I am NOT attracted. If she is ugly it ain’t gonna happen. I am not automatically, robotically attracted to asian women!!!

    UGH!

    Here’s a news flash for (some of) the Asian world: while you self-deluded Asians sit around pondering the mythology that everyone is obsessed with Asia here’s the truth: the only “fetish” or “obsession” for asia is the one that Asians have. Sure, some people have fetishes for people of all races (you never hear that from insecure asian males. Hmm) But Asians fetishize themselves to the extent that they are convinced that everyone else does, too. You all are so obsessed with yourselves and your “pure cultures” to the point that you create mythologies about other people being “obsessed” with you, confusing it with simple attraction, or interest, or even academic study. LOL.

    And then of course the ones who ultimately drive the whole “asian obsession” mythology are the insecure asian males (the so-called “foi boys”) chirping and whining about asian women and non-asian men. “OMG – watch out! He’s only after you because he has “asian fever.” Is that so? Well, Mr. Hong, why do you, yourself, ONLY date asian women? Hmm.. Here’s the reason: it’s because YOU are actually the one who is obsessed with asian women.

    Insecure asian men are so sensitive about this to the extent that for asian women to cross racial lines is an ACT OF WAR on their very self-worth. Yep: if the object of your obsession favors the object of your dread and hatred, then that affects you to the point that you must have a strategy to turn the object of your obsession away from the object of your hatred.
    Others have said it and I will say it too: IN NO WAY ARE ALL ASIAN MEN LIKE THIS!! And I apologize to those of you who are not caught up in the foi boy mentality to reject and punish asian women for sometimes dating other races.

    ++++++

    So…. I am NOT a stereotyper!!

    Truly….. ALL ASIANS ARE NOT LIKE THIS.

    ONE: Though many, many are, ALL ASIAN MEN ARE NOT INSECURE~!! I know plenty of solid, strong asian men who don’t care who asian women date; they do not feel that they own asian women. further more!! They date other races too!! Please note that none of my rant is aimed at you at all! I know that asian men are

    I love how some insecure asian men ( foi-boys) ONLY DATE ASIAN WOMEN, they rant and rant about how GREAT and AWESOME Asian women are.. they are incredible! Amazing! Gorgeous! and I would NEEVER date a white girl…..

    and then they have the nerve to accuse ME of being obsessed with them!!!

    LMAO!!!

    Um, please….. you guys are busted!! Asian men (sometimes) are so obsessed with asian women that it gets pretty gross and creepy and flat weird. But are they accused of any fetish? Nope. If I just accidentally glance at an asian woman, will she think I’m obsessed? maybe, and its creepy, and dehumanizing. Whoa!~

    TWO: there are plenty of really, really cool asian women who are strong, self-secure women who are really interesting individuals.. I have dated many asian women (please note!!! I do date other races, also!!! sheesh!!). I think there are plenty of asian women out there who are sweet and are not caught up in the mythology of asian fetish that sometimes asian men use to demonize and marginlize white men as somehow less worthy than asian men are to have a relationship with an asian woman. That sounds like the Nazis to me!!! JEEZ……

    So I am just putting this out there.

    I am not a hater. But enough is enough.

    Peace out, folks.

    Like


  146. @Hugh

    Did you really just push the blame on the creation of the Asian Female Fetish on Asians? Sorry but the “Submissive China Doll” stereotype has been in full swing ever since the mid 60’s, thanks to white men, and has been (mainly) kept alive by Asian (women and culture) fetishists.

    @ David

    Abagond lacks real world experience? Pot meet Kettle. The Japanese like foreigners in general! Not just white dudes.

    Like


  147. @ Hugh

    “And yes, a few here and there might have a “thing” for asians….. Um. Who gives a care???????”

    I think that you need to take an honest look at the outdating ratio of Asian women compared with that of other ethnicities.

    I give you the quote from Wikipedia:

    “Marriages between White Americans and Asian Americans are increasingly common for both genders in the United States (Lange, 2005), however unions between Asian women and White men continue to outnumber the reverse coupling by roughly three to one. In 1990, about 69 percent of married Asian American women aged between 18 and 30 were wed to Asian American men, while 25 percent had White husbands.[14] In 2006, 41 percent of Asian American-born women were registered as having White husbands, while 50 percent were married to Asian American men”

    If Whites were a minority of only 7% in the U.S., and 41% of White women were marrying Asian men, why do I get the feeling that all of those explanation points and capital letters would be directed toward the A/W couples????

    It’s easy to have yourself a little tirade when you’re in a privileged majority who is marrying up 41% of the Asian women in the U.S. But until you’ve actually been on the other side of the zero sum game, maybe it would be best if spent more time considering and less time talking,

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  148. @Franklin.

    “Did you really just push the blame on the creation of the Asian Female Fetish on Asians? Sorry but the “Submissive China Doll” stereotype has been in full swing ever since the mid 60′s, thanks to white men, and has been (mainly) kept alive by Asian (women and culture) fetishists.”

    Absolutely right, Franklin. And let me ask you a question. Where did that stereotype come from in the first place

    And you say, “Sorry but the “Submissive China Doll” stereotype has been in full swing ever since the mid 60′s, thanks to white men..” LOL. Um – NO. The “Submissive China doll” stereotype has been in full swing for…..[drumrolll] MILLENIA! And it was created by…..LOL. You guessed it. Asian men!

    For **MILLENIA** ASIAN MEN are responsible for marginalizing, exploiting, taking advantage of and, yes, sexually perverting Asian women. They were absolutely required to be submissive or die. LIterally.

    That continues to this day in some parts of India and China. And when you consider that Asian men are 98% of the Asian prostitution problem, human-trafficking problem, all the way down to the child-prostitution problem, the list of reasons that Asian males created the “asian fetish” grows.

    Are there a few perverted foreigners around following suit? Of course. They are goofballs. But Asian men are the founders of the whole racket. Sorry.

    And do not make me go into the history of females in waiting in the Japanese, Korean, and Chinese royal court traditions. Unfortunately, it’s literally in your blood to exploit women!~~!

    Yes, I blame Asian men for fetishizing asian women more than anyone in the whole world. you are the ones that have the culture that has not only fetishized them for millenia, set them in the backroom ready to meet the pleasures of every man, and then, even today, demand that they bow down to men (esp in Korea I hear) and serve them.

    But you take it further. Asian men are so obsessed with Asian women that they go literally ballistic when asian women are interested with other groups.

    All proof of a really, serious creepy fetish.

    And, um, white guys sometimes see that, and of course they might indulge in what you HAVE ALREADY CREATED CULTURALLY AND SOCIALLY. The most hypocritical thing about Asian male fetishism is that it targets white men as exploiters of asian women, even as they go out to the girly bar on the corner to have drinks with their friends at a bar filled with girls who are being prostituted. Happens EVERYDAY in Japan. Korea. China. Hong Kong. Doesn’t matter. Asian men are the kings of asian female exploitation. NOT white men. Sorry.

    OF COURSE, not all asian men are like this. Many are. And I think a lot of white guys are just tired of the accusations. Are we all perfect? Of course not.

    As I said before, I am not trying to hate. I defend Asian men when white people have stupid stereotypes. But you Asians take the cake, sometimes, when you go off on this silliness about asian fetish and white men even while the fetish was born in your own culture. Even when you girls are just like any other race: some of you are beautiful and lovely; some of you are, ahem, NOT! LOL. But there are great asian girls out there who don’t get caught up in this nonsense. And there are great asian guys who are not insecure and can own up to their past as the founders or any kind of “fetish.”

    Like


  149. “Yes, I blame Asian men for fetishizing asian women more than anyone in the whole world. you are the ones that have the culture that has not only fetishized them for millenia, set them in the backroom ready to meet the pleasures of every man, and then, even today, demand that they bow down to men (esp in Korea I hear) and serve them.”

    Wow…

    – Exactly which Asian culture are you talking about here? Are you implying that they ALL did this? If not, how many Asian cultures are there, and how many of them treated women in this way you have described?

    – Are you saying that ALL (or most) Asian women were/are prostitutes???

    – You DO realize that Asian men also bow to each other don’t you? It’s called a CUSTOM. In the West, men force women to clasp hands with men and shake them up and down! Can you really be this uninformed?

    Like


  150. @Hugh: It’s not that you date a few East Asian women. That is not a fetish. What is a fetish, however, is white men going up to East Asian women and going “Oh, I’ve always wanted to have sex with an Asian woman. Are your coochies really slanted/tight? You know, I’ve heard that Asian women are really submissive; they like to please their men. Is that true?” And so on. The Asian women who’ve posted on here have said that they get this from white men constantly. Are you seriously going to suggest that after being propositioned by white men a number of times, that they’re not going to at least be wary? Come on; that’s not even realistic.

    Like


  151. @King.

    Wow is right, King.

    What Asian culture am I talking about?! LOL. The Asian culture that had dynasties and emperors and royal courts for millenia?? Have you heard of the Asian culture more commonly known as, um, China, Japan, Korea, Vietnam, etc?

    Don’t try to push me into a “white male stereotyping Asians” mold.. of course that is after everyone does that to me.

    Am I saying that all Asian women are prostitutes. I love it. Now you are trying to imply that I think all Asian women are prostitutes. LOL. Um, no, King that is not what I am implying, although that is of course what you like to believe that I think. Right? LOL. What I am saying is the Asian men have exploited, marginalized, and abused Asian women for millenia. I have made it very clear that I am not talking about ALL Asian men. However, it has been deeply cultural, embedded in the very court rituals and cultural customs of time, to treat women in certain ways in Asia that are despicable. If you want to deny that, then you are delusional. LOL.

    Bowing. King, I was using that as an analogy for the way women are forced to be subjugated to men in Asia to this very hour. I am aware that all people bow to eachother in certain places in Asia — but not everywhere.

    The point of my post is to make it clear the silliness of your point about the creation of this “asian fetish” originating in 1960 with…LOL… white men! That is so ridiculous as to be laughable. Particularly when you all have been experts at subordinating and marginalizing women for millenia. As if you needed my help, or something… !! LOL.

    No. Asian fetish was _not_ created by white men in the 1960s, King. Sorry. LMAO!

    It has been around for a LONG time. And white men had absolutely nothing to do with its creation ultimately in time past.

    As far as white men coming up to asian women and actually saying crap like “Are your coochies really slanted/tight?” I think that is absurd!! LOL. Only the dumbest idiot would say something like that. Are there dumb white guys who would do that? Sure, a few. But to imply that some kind of huge majority of white guys go up to asian women and say craps like “your coochie is tight and I want you to be submissive and cook me some noodles.” then you are simply on the stereotype-bus with a one way ticket to nowhere!!

    I have gone out with many asian women and every last one of them were different. For the record, I did not care at all “how tight their coochie is” (your creepy words, not mine) and I appreciated each of them as a human being. Sorry that does not fit your creepy stereotypes of white men.

    But that’s it.

    peace out.

    Like


  152. @Hugh

    More deflective white male lunacy. You predictably missed an important part. When Asian men did what you call “fetishizing” Asian women, it wasn’t on the basis of race. If it was, then every other gender specific aspect of all Asian custom that was different than Euro ones would be included in Asian Fetishizing. We intelligent people call those clusters of customs a “culture.” It wasn’t until self-serving white men perverted and warped these Asian customs on the basis of race that the Asian fetish came about. So don’t slap your own white connotations of perversion onto something that is different from yours, for the sake of justifying your own groups history of degenerative behavior.

    Like


  153. To bluebirds:

    I also notice that majority of the White men with Asian women in the U.S. are Jewish men.

    Not a majority I would say but over represented as a percentage of their population. (2% of the men in the US…)
    Note also, Jewish guys are also over represented when it comes to dating or marrying Black women.

    Like


  154. Samhita at Feministing put it well, speaking for many Asian women:

    But for the rest of us, that are sick and tired of white men being into us because we are “exotic,” well this shit is just tired

    Samhita is not the classic sort of Asian that American White guys get interested in… she’s South Asian not East Asian. In my experience South Asian (immigrants at least ) women are markedly less interested in White guys than East Asian women. (and White guys know this.. so they generally don’t pursue them as much…)

    Like


  155. “What Asian culture am I talking about?! LOL. The Asian culture that had dynasties and emperors and royal courts for millenia?? Have you heard of the Asian culture more commonly known as, um, China, Japan, Korea, Vietnam, etc?”

    Let’s see now. Dynasties, emperors, and royal courts… Do you mean Charlemagne? The Merovingians? Perhaps the Roman Caesars?

    You fancy yourself not to be a racist… of course, because you sometimes date minority women. Yet, you criticize their cultures in comparison with your own. You see their men as overbearing and oppressive and their sisters as “creepy” and self obsessed. But by what bar are judging them? With whom are you comparing them? What do you know best?

    Western Whiteness.

    All that you have said is but a thin veil of distraction stretched over the gaping depth of contempt that you feel toward Asian cultures. You see yourself as better than Asian men, and as a prize to Asian women. You’re not like THIER men, no! You will rescue them from the brutal Asian Shogun!

    …and while your at it, you might as well rescue the svelte Latina from their macho Latin oppressors! And the raven-haired middle-eastern women from the brutal sheik! And perhaps even the curvaceous Black honey from her brutal pimp. You the White man will do this

    The most brutal of them all.

    Like


  156. To King:

    You the White man will do this…The most brutal of them all.

    I dare say some things have changed in recent years:

    Like


  157. BRUTAL! just in a different way, Uncle Milton!!! 🙂

    Like


  158. To King:

    I think that you need to take an honest look at the outdating ratio of Asian women compared with that of other ethnicities. “Marriages between White Americans and Asian Americans are increasingly common for both genders in the United States (Lange, 2005), however unions between Asian women and White men continue to outnumber the reverse coupling by roughly three to one.

    The three to one ratio interestingly corresponds to the number of Black men married or cohabitating with White women vs White men cohabitating or married to Black women.

    I doubt that is due to the intentional actions of White men. It takes two to tango.

    Like


  159. To King:

    BRUTAL! just in a different way, Uncle Milton!!!

    Yes I can see you crossing the street when you see that trio… so you won’t catch their disease.

    Like


  160. “The three to one ratio interestingly corresponds to the number of Black men married or cohabitating with White women vs White men cohabitating or married to Black women.”

    Yes, but the difference is that Black men are not marrying 41% of White women.

    “I doubt that is due to the intentional actions of White men. It takes two to tango.”

    No, in most cases it’s not intentionally done by individuals, but I still see the abnormally high numbers as tied to the fact that White men are seen as more valuable in American society than Asian men.

    Like


  161. So when a white guy has a preference for his own race/culture does that mean he has a fetish? I don’t believe you can fetishize(is that word?) another race. The white man who prefers white chicks is no better than the white man who fancies Asian women. If it’s so abnormal then why do they have the ability to procreate? Fetish sounds like a word that applies to objects and not humans. I don’t believe most white guys who are into Asians see them as things.

    *Don’t know much about white males who prefer Asians, but I doubt most of them who do can’t see them as human.

    Like


  162. To King:

    Yes, but the difference is that Black men are not marrying 41% of White women.

    The number imbalance is exacerbated due to the low number of Asians to Whites and the numbers for 2nd generation (and higher..) Asians are not nearly so skewed.. what that tells me is that White women.. for whatever reason do not prefer Asian male culture (and yes I know there are big differences..) but don’t mind assimilated Asian men. (FWIW, my sister is married to a 3rd generation Japanese American…)

    Like


  163. “The number imbalance is exacerbated due to the low number of Asians to Whites”

    Perhaps, but it is curious that we don’t see the same phenomenon with other smaller ethnic populations and White men. It seems that Asia women have become a special case in that regard.

    Also, Asian men have been totally screwed by American media for decades—either portrayed as invisible, or as neutered dorks.

    Like


  164. To King:

    UM Said:
    “The number imbalance is exacerbated due to the low number of Asians to Whites”

    Perhaps, but it is curious that we don’t see the same phenomenon with other smaller ethnic populations and White men. It seems that Asia women have become a special case in that regard.

    Let’s look at the census data from 2000. The two groups least likely to marry/cohabitate outside of their race/ethnicity are non-Hispanic White men and Black women.

    As I look at the data… I notice that the percentage of White men marrying Asian women is 28% higher than Black men who marry Asian women…. higher certainly but not as much as we have been led to believe by these assertions that there are droves of White male Asian fetishists running around. Also realize we have had a substantial number of American men (and few woman..) stationed in Asian since 1945. Invariably a good percentage of these men we young and single and ended up marrying some of the local women.

    Does this mean I don’t think there are White men who have fetishes for Asian women… no.. they certainly exist…. but these articles bemoaning White men and Asian women ignore other interracial and ethnic patterns in the US. According to the 2000 US census data 2.1% White men marry or cohabitate with Asian women and 3.6% White women marry or cohabitate with Black men…. so flip the script and talk about the White women and Black men… (Which for marriage or cohabitation is 70% more likely than for White men and Asian women..) and it starts to sound a bit ugly doesn’t it…?

    Color key (I didn’t make these..)
    Yellow = Asian people
    Red = Native Americans
    Brown = Hispanics
    Black = Black people
    White = White people

    Cohabitation patterns of Asian men:

    Marriage patterns of Asian men:

    Cohabitation patterns of Asian women:

    Marriage patterns of Asian women:

    Cohabitation patterns of Black men:

    Marriage patterns of Black men:

    Cohabitation patterns of Black women:

    Marriage patterns of Black women:

    Cohabitation patterns of Hispanic men:

    Marriage patterns of Hispanic men:

    Cohabitation patterns of Hispanic women:

    Marriage patterns of Hispanic women:

    Cohabitation patterns of White men:

    Marriage patterns of White men:

    Cohabitation patterns of White women:

    Marriage patterns of White women:

    http://www.census.gov/population/cen2000/phc-t19/tab02.pdf

    Like


  165. @King.

    “You fancy yourself not to be a racist… of course, because you sometimes date minority women. Yet, you criticize their cultures in comparison with your own. You see their men as overbearing and oppressive and their sisters as “creepy” and self obsessed. But by what bar are judging them? With whom are you comparing them? What do you know best?”

    And I love how you are completely convinced that I am livid with hatred for Asians. LOL. You and your asian echo-chamber stereotypes of white men. Lovely.

    Um, King? Do I know you? The reason I am not a racist, is because I am *not* a racist. But the problem with that accusation is that it is proof that you yourself are also racist. Interesting how that works, huh? You are trying to root out racism, and the way that you do it is racist.

    And therefore it really doesn’t make any difference but promote more racism in the world?

    Things that make you go hmmmm…….

    Yup, I love how you simply lump every white person into a big bag of horrible idiots, label that big lump… [drumroll please]……… “Western Whiteness,” and then proceed to believe that you are all-knowing with reference to any white guy who dates an asian women. Right? LOL. Of course I’m right!

    And yes, I’ll play your little game. If I am judging you by “Western Whiteness” then you are judging me by the “Asian Male Insecurity Syndrome.” That is the notion that some Asian men have that all white men are out to get their women and and asian men have to protect them. Right? The fact is, because of the marginalization of asian men (admittedly for some very stupid stereotypes of asian men in the white world) you feel absolutely horrified when an asian woman “crosses over.” And then you vilify white men as the very culprit of the pain you feel. But the asian women has “self-hatred”. There is of course, no possibility that two human beings are just attracted to each other for the insecure asian man.

    But this is the very reason Asian men are obsessed with Asian women: Because they are marginalized by other female groups. I am not saying that is good or bad; sometimes these non-Asian women are judging you for silly stereotypical reasons. I would be upset about that, too.

    But the point is that it makes you mad and it hurts. And so you have to make sure that Asian women are in your “camp” and that is something that Asian men cannot give up on — asian women belong to us; they will not go over to “Western Whiteness” and let “Western Whiteness” have his “asian fetish” on our women. They belong to us. And the only real, true relationship that an asian women can have is with…..you guessed it….and asian man. Right?

    Well, you might as well put the Nazi flag outside your door at that point, because you sound like a Nazi. The pure race is the Asian. The “Western Whiteness” is now the Jew. No impurity. No mixing of blood! Out of here with the white barbarians!!!!

    In the end, if you actually took the time to get to know white men and what their motivations were (you obviously prefer to make racist accusations from a distance) then you would understand that the motivations of most white guys are very noble.

    Qualification: I do not think all asian men are insecure, and I do not think that all asian women are obsessed with themselves. However, many are. And I do not back down from that.

    Like


  166. @Franklin who said the following:

    “More deflective white male lunacy. You predictably missed an important part. When Asian men did what you call “fetishizing” Asian women, it wasn’t on the basis of race. If it was, then every other gender specific aspect of all Asian custom that was different than Euro ones would be included in Asian Fetishizing. We intelligent people call those clusters of customs a “culture.” It wasn’t until self-serving white men perverted and warped these Asian customs on the basis of race that the Asian fetish came about. So don’t slap your own white connotations of perversion onto something that is different from yours, for the sake of justifying your own groups history of degenerative behavior.”

    Ah, Lovely, Franklin!

    Let’s go through this point by point.

    First of all, I am a “white male lunatic.” Hmm. Well, that sure helps your argument when you begin by making a horrible racist comment about a whole swath of human beings based on the color of their skin. Nice. No qualifications. Just pure 100% good old-fashioned racism. And you don’t seem to really care, do you? Nice.

    Next, who gave you the right to define exactly what “asian fetish” is? LOL. “Asian fetish” is not a defined term by any academic organ or institution that I know of, Franklin, unless you would like to cite a journal article that I have missed recently???? LOL.

    No. Sorry, you do not have the God-given right to create the “asian fetish” entry in the dictionary. And I say that it can most certainly be same-race. As a matter of fact, the clinical term for fetish has *nothing at all to do with race.* So, technically speaking you are completely wrong to use it racially.

    But no, it is clear to me that some Asian men are totally obsessed with Asian women. Much more than white men. Asian women are the keys to their self-worth — IF (and this is a big if) Asian men can convince these women that white men who date asian women all have the so-called “asian fetish.” Yes! Then these women will see that Asian men are the best for them.

    In the end, myself included, I don’t know any white guy who is “obsessed” with asian women. Do I sometimes date an asian woman because I’m attracted to her? Of course, why not? And those women I have dated were wonderful beautiful individuals who I call my friends. None of them were the same at all. And I date non-asians a lot too.

    But let’s finish with this little gem:

    “So don’t slap your own white connotations of perversion onto something that is different from yours, for the sake of justifying your own groups history of degenerative behavior.”

    Nice! I see by your words that the only motivation “Western Whiteness” has is to “justify degenerative behavior.” And this is nice: “It wasn’t until self-serving white men perverted and warped these Asian customs on the basis of race that the Asian fetish came about.” Love it. As if you needed “perverted white men” to come and warp gender-relations. LOL. Excellent racist deflection from the point that simply goes back to the truth that Asian men have PLENTY of Asian-fetish behavior that goes back into the mists of time.

    Oh, and by the way, we intelligent people know that the concept of “culture” is highly contested and amorphous. But I guess you’re still in undergrad sociology 101 and haven’t gotten to the current theoretical discussions, right?

    Like


  167. “And I love how you are completely convinced that I am livid with hatred for Asians. LOL. You and your asian echo-chamber stereotypes of white men. Lovely.”

    I don’t think that you understand what racism actually is. When somebody listens to the words pouring out of your brain, and then concludes that you have some animosity towards Asian cultures, that is not racism, it’s observation.

    1) “Bottom line is that many asian are self-fetishizing creepy weirdos. You (sometimes) are absolutely obsessed with yourselves. And you simply CANNOT understand why the whole world would not be the same.”

    2) “While you self-deluded Asians sit around pondering the mythology that everyone is obsessed with Asia here’s the truth: the only “fetish” or “obsession” for asia is the one that Asians have.”

    3) “And do not make me go into the history of females in waiting in the Japanese, Korean, and Chinese royal court traditions. Unfortunately, it’s literally in your blood to exploit women!~~!”

    I’m not saying that your a klansman, I’m just saying that you have a way at looking at vastly different Asian cultures as ALL more or less the same. I’m also saying that you tend to see the misogyny in the Asian cultures as endemic to the cultures, while simultaneously seeing misogyny in White American culture as incidental to that culture. ALL cultures have oppressed women, and ALL cultures have held up their own women as ideal. The fact that you see these things as unique to Asians reveals your belief that your own cultural mores are somehow more enlightened, when in fact, they are not.

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  168. @Uncle Milton & King
    I’m not sure if we can infer much from IR marriage rates & census data. The number imbalances seem to mess everything up. For instance, when other races marry out it is disproportionately to a white person. Is this telling us they all prefer whites after their own race or does this tell us the larger white population means your’e more likely to marry(out) white as opposed to the other races? A nice question to ask would be:

    Do you still believe white male-asian female marriage rate would be the same if whites and asians shared the same percentage of the population?

    Like


  169. @King

    Well, then, I think we have come to a common area of understanding. We both acknowledge that there are ugly stereotypes on both sides of the fence. Agreed. I have no problem with that. White people are constantly reminded of this by every minority group in the world. And we should be reminded. But I am NOT a racist. I grew up in a family with a Father who literally punished us kids for making racist comments about anyone.

    And also: if someone listens to what I am saying and makes an observation, that is fine. When someone is not *hearing* what I am saying and responds with racist lumpings together of all white people, well, that is racism. And of course, innocent “observations” are sometimes the worst racism, no?

    Finally, I made very clear qualifications to my comments. I do NOT believe that all Asians are one way, male or female. And I do work to dispel stupid stereotypes, as do countless millions of white people in my generation. That is why when minorities blanket judge the whole groups with notions of “Western Whiteness” (an illusion if I ever heard one) it sounds like there are no distinctions at all between the left-over racist whites (there are some out there, of course) and the rest of us who are working diligently to move forward.

    But moving forward will not happen if Asians simply reify the very racism they decry by turning unfair stereotypes back on white people.

    Like


  170. BTW, thanks for digging up those charts, Uncle Milton.

    “Is this telling us they all prefer whites after their own race or does this tell us the larger white population means your’e more likely to marry(out) white as opposed to the other races?”

    Well, it’s a difficult proposition because of our old friend, ‘white privilege.’ It’s as if each White person is walking around with a $10,000 check safety-pinned to their clothing which would be given to the person who marries them. Now, could two people fall in love for other reason’s than the $10,000 check? Of course they could. But even in such cases, the very existence of that check would have an influence on their relationship.

    So would people of color be marrying White people BECAUSE of the check, or because their are simply just more White people around to marry? How does one answer such a question?

    Like


  171. @ Hugh

    There are many definitions for racism, some are based on morality, others are based on science. We are all racists *to some degree.* The fact that someone calls you out on your racism does not infer that you are a bad person, or that they themselves are not racists.

    Being perceived as ‘White’ at this point in human history comes with certain undeniable privileges, it also comes with certain responsibilities. Would you go down to the Navajo Reservation and then complain about how the men there don’t seem to trust you and “aren’t giving you a fair chance?”

    Everything must be seen in its social and historical context, and given the way that Asians have been treated historically in the US.

    – Not being allowed to bring women with them to America because the might multiply like rabbits.

    – The Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882

    – The Japanese Internment Camps

    Just to name a VERY few of the indignities suffered. Perhaps you can see why some Asian men resent the fact that White men now seem to be quite interested in marrying their women, while conversely, White women seem markedly less interested in marrying their men. Given all of the years of oppression (in the US) and imperialism and colonization (in their home countries) you might understand where the animus may be coming from.

    Yes, given the history between White people and Asian people in this country, as a White guy, you may occasionally have to take some heat for dating Asian girls. But given the larger scheme of things, it might be the better part of valor to understand why, and just let it go. After all, nobody is going to lynch you or write a law to make it illegal or have you deported.

    Like


  172. @King:

    Don’t get drawn into this guy’s rants. It’s obvious he has a hate on for Asians. If anything he is hilarious notwithstanding the racist context.

    Like


  173. @King:

    Again, you’re spot on.

    Like


  174. @ Hugh

    <First of all, I am a “white male lunatic.” Hmm. Well, that sure helps your argument when you begin by making a horrible racist comment about a whole swath of human beings based on the color of their skin. Nice. No qualifications. Just pure 100% good old-fashioned racism. And you don’t seem to really care, do you? Nice.

    If me calling “a spade a spade” is offensive to you, then get thicker skin. If I’m “mean” for pointing out white male lunacy, then so be it. That doesn’t make me any less correct. Just someone who doesn’t mince words, in the face of foolishness. Deal with it and move on.

    Next, who gave you the right to define exactly what “asian fetish” is? LOL. “Asian fetish” is not a defined term by any academic organ or institution that I know of, Franklin, unless you would like to cite a journal article that I have missed recently???? LOL.

    Who gave me the right? It’s called common sense. You do know that there are words being added to the English dictionary at constant intervals right? So your point is moot. Now, less Strawmen please.

    No. Sorry, you do not have the God-given right to create the “asian fetish” entry in the dictionary. And I say that it can most certainly be same-race. As a matter of fact, the clinical term for fetish has *nothing at all to do with race.* So, technically speaking you are completely wrong to use it racially.

    No one can be this dense…seriously…

    First you say that there is no definition of Asian Fetish, then you try to claim that YOU have a partial answer as to what it is (despite there being “no definition earlier”) since “it can most certainly be within Asian groups.” What kind of logic is that? Please point to me where I said that the clinical term for Fetish had to do with race. You appear to have trouble with simple comprehension. If fetish had to do with race, then the word Asian or any type of sub-categorizing word wouldn’t be slapped in front of it. And I’m sorry, but you don’t get to re-write the word fetish, just because its current definition doesn’t help you.

    If “Asian Fetishizing” was included into something that is done with other Asians, they why is there no “White Fetish” label for the odd things that whites do? It’s not called that, nor would it be. It’s just called a Fetish, until it has a racial component that is meant to stand out from other groups. Paying attention to, and focusing on your own women isn’t a racial fetish. It’s just not. I’ve actually said something this before, but you intentionally ignored it. There’s a reason why I called it “Lunacy” earlier. Thanks for reminding readers as to why.

    But no, it is clear to me that some Asian men are totally obsessed with Asian women. Much more than white men. Asian women are the keys to their self-worth — IF (and this is a big if) Asian men can convince these women that white men who date asian women all have the so-called “asian fetish.” Yes! Then these women will see that Asian men are the best for them.

    And this only helps my argument. EVERY race (generally speaking, as there are individuals) is favorable towards the women of their own groups. Thats nature. We like what is familiar to us. This can be proven when you see that white men are more favorable towards white women, Black with Black, Hispanic (even though that’s not a race) with Hispanic…so forth and so on. You have no proof that Asian women are the keys to an Asian Male’s individual worth. That’s just you being illogical, yet again.

    Once again, jumping through hoops to defend White Male Degeneracy. The REAL WMD’s! Not “Weapons of Mass Destruction!”

    Like


  175. @Franklin

    “If me calling “a spade a spade” is offensive to you, then get thicker skin. If I’m “mean” for pointing out white male lunacy, then so be it. That doesn’t make me any less correct. Just someone who doesn’t mince words, in the face of foolishness. Deal with it and move on.”

    LOL Frank. I love your racist logic. You have the right to offend the hell out of me, but of course, I am a “White Male Degenerate” as you put it.. OH wait, let’s use your exact words about me: “White Male Degeneracy. The REAL WMD’s! Not “Weapons of Mass Destruction!” Just business as usual for some Asians like you who feel like they have the right to inflict on different groups the very racism that they cry out against. Congratulations for being so predictable, Frank. LOL!

    And no, I do not back down from the fact that some Asians are obsessed with themselves and then inscribe that fetish onto the non-Asian world. What? You went out with that Asian women and you don’t admit that you have a racist Asian fetish, white boy?! LOL.

    Um, sorry. I am not obsessed with Asia and I am not obsessed with Asian women. But I am interested in Asia. And sometimes I date Asian women. All of them have been very interesting, unique and enjoyable human beings. They were sure of themselves, and they were not swayed by what family and friends thought about them dating a non-Asian. And some of the hate was painful for a couple of these women. It’s really sad sometimes. But I also date other races, too, of course.

    But some Asians are so obsessed with themselves that they literally lose the ability to believe that other people groups might not be obsessed with Asia(ns), too.

    And please that I do not in any way hate Asia. Many Asians are not like this at all. They are perfectly comfortable with themselves as Asians and they don’t try to suck up to any other race. I know Asian men who are perfectly secure in their Asian-ness as a male, and do not need Asian women to reject other races to feel good about themselves. So I am NOT on the stereotype bus, here.

    But it’s true: some Asian men are obsessed with Asian women because they need Asian women to reject non-Asian men to feel good about themselves. It’s just so obvious. Of course, not all Asian men are like that at all; and not all Asian women are obsessed with themselves and think all white men “fetishize” them, but many are. Some of these women are just flat creepy the way they insist that I am obsessed with them. It’s gross and offensive. Especially when they are not even attractive! Sheesh!

    As far as the term “fetish” it is obvious that one can use the term in multivalent ways. Please. Grow up, and get over your insistence that there is only one usage. LOL. And everyone knows that there is also a “white fetish” that some Asian women have. (of course not all of them) So I guess the road goes both ways.

    I propose that we lose the term “fetish” when talking about either direction. I think it is terribly unfair to label an Asian women who is simply interested in white men with a “white fetish” in the same way that it is terribly unfair to label a white man interested in an Asian woman as having an “asian fetish.” Will there be bizarre weird Asian women chasing after white men with a “white obsession”? Maybe a few here and there, sure. Will there be a few bizarre weird white men chasing after Asian women with an odd obsession for asian women? Sure, a few here and there.

    But we have to make the big distinction here, folks. These people are off-balance and in the extreme minority.

    In the end, it’s the stereotypes that get everyone into trouble on both sides…… jus’ sayin…..

    Like


  176. Uh oh…I’ve learned the hard way to beware of anything ending with “just sayin”… lol

    Like


  177. @ Hugh

    First of all I’m not Asian, I’m black.

    Second of all, if at any point you feel that you want to debate anything I’ve said, then I’ll wait for a proper response. Random interjections of “LOL” in place of substance tell me just how unequipped you are in this discussion. As you haven’t been able to refute anything I’ve said. Unless you think that outright ignoring my factual and logical points counts as a proper refutation…

    Instead, like a predictable and deflective know-nothing, you took the easy road and focused on my opinion of you, while not commenting on the actual debate at hand. Even laughably responding with Red Herrings and repeating your earlier comments that I didn’t even really say/hint at/accuse you of. Which only increases the accuracy of my earlier opinions of you. Keep it up. This is getting easier and easier.

    Like


  178. @ Franklin

    Well Frank, it doesn’t matter what color you are: you’re a racist if you think it’s OK to call me names like that. Flat out. Glad you are comfortable with that? And you’re attacks on my intelligence not only do not work, but they diminishe your arguments as well. Sorry bout that. Further, as a black man, you are catagorizing me in stereotypical ways that only proves that you are trying to fight white racism with black racism. News flash: that will never work. We have to BOTH stop altogether.

    Further, I have made very salient points that you are obviously unwilling to acknowledge? I answered your silly argument that you have the right to actually define “asian fetish” as a racial structure, or as That’s interesting. But whatever. I stand by my point that it is multivalent in meaning. Further, I disagree that someone cannot fetishize someone from the same race — again, if you insist on using the term “fetish” it goes both ways. You say it’s impossible; I say it is. I guess we will just disagree.

    My point concerning the term “Asian fetish” is this: I believe that IF it is going to be forced onto white men, then said “fetish” will apply in multiple directions. That is, if Asians insist that I have a “fetish” just because I date Asian women or am interested in Asia, then they also have a fetish in similar ways for themselves because they assume that my behavior is fetishistic. Is there a “white fetish”? For some whites, sure. Some whites think White is best. But not many at all are like that. It is the same with Asians. And blacks too for that matter. All races have segments that fetishize themselves, and that same segment in turn has the illusion that others must do the same thing. I guess you did not read my previous post when I stated that I think we should do away with it altogether on both sides of the fence.

    My whole point has been that we need to stop — all of us — stereotyping. It has gotten the world nowhere. And it never will.

    Like


  179. To Hugh, King, and Franklin,

    If a guy is in a Heterosexual relationship with someone of another race and they dislike the men of that race then I think they are making a big mistake. What if you are a White guy who likes Asian women but dislikes Asian men and has a male child with her. I have seen multiple examples of mixed race Asian/White kids who look more Asian than White. Your kid might identify more with his Asian side (and I know of several examples..) so what would the relationship with your son be like…? There are also Black men who date and/or marry White women but dislike White men.. what if you son looks heavily White? I also know of several examples of biracial White/Black mixed people who are phenotypically White.

    Then of course there are fathers, brothers, uncles, male cousins, etc of the woman…it would seem a serious relationship would have problems if you had some sort of racial resentment against the in laws. (Of course resentment again ones in laws can certainly occur among people of the same race…)

    Like


  180. To King:

    Well, it’s a difficult proposition because of our old friend, ‘white privilege.’ It’s as if each White person is walking around with a $10,000 check safety-pinned to their clothing which would be given to the person who marries them. Now, could two people fall in love for other reason’s than the $10,000 check?

    Men of Northeast Asian descent make as money per capita as White guys…so I don’t think cash is the equation there…. Are you saying that Black men who marry of cohabitate with White women ….also White women only make about 1% more money per capita as Black men so I think overall money is part of the equation there either.

    Like


  181. Uncle Milton, I think you’re taking my little analogy a bit too literally. I didn’t mean to imply an actual economic advantage.

    What I’m talking about is the social currency of Whiteness—the advantages in this society of being White. Those advantages can be “cashed in” on from time to time, when others of less celebrated ethnic lineage are left destitute of any social capital.

    To some ethnic women, having lighter-skinned offspring is seen as an advantage in society. Also, the idea that an ethnic woman (or man) was good enough to get a trophy White person has known to have been an occasional influence.

    And then, there actually is an economic angle as well. It is true that Asian men earn as much (and sometimes more) than White men, but they also tend to be more highly educated than White men in order to achieve that.

    The common blue collar Asian factory worker is still less likely to be promoted than his blue collar White counterpart (all other things being equal).

    That is what I meant.

    Like


  182. To King:

    To some ethnic women, having lighter-skinned offspring is seen as an advantage in society. Also, the idea that an ethnic woman (or man) was good enough to get a trophy White person has known to have been an occasional influence.
    What I’m talking about is the social currency of Whiteness—the advantages in this society of being White. Those advantages can be “cashed in” on from time to time, when others of less celebrated ethnic lineage are left destitute of any social capital.

    In my experience Asian Indians often do seem to find lighter skin to be preferable but this rarely translates to South Asian immigrant women marrying White men. As for East Asians and their attitudes towards general White traits I have heard quite a few negatives. Our noses are too big, we are too hairy, too heavy, and we smell funny…we have light skin yes, but it looks unhealthy, it’s pastey and ruddy to many Asians…especially as we age. Oh yeah.. Whites age too quickly. Supposedly among Asian immigrants to the US there is a common belief that many Whites are a bit lazy and not quite as smart as East Asians.

    Among the East/South East Asian immigrant guys (well they moved to the US when they 8 and 14 respectively..) that I have known who have been the most successful with White women… have been Filipino. They were both into music, good dancers, and were very confident in themselves. From what I could gather .. what they brought to the table was a generally better understanding of what White American women liked (and didn’t like..) in men than some guys from Northeast Asia. (or for that matter the White guys from the US…)

    Like


  183. Well sometimes it’s the light skin, sometimes it’s the round eye, sometimes it’s hair texture, or eye color.

    Basically, its just a way to look closer to the all American norm—to be accepted as more “us” and less “them.”

    And believe me, it affects ALL minorities including East Asians.

    Like


  184. To King:

    Basically, its just a way to look closer to the all American norm—to be accepted as more “us” and less “them.”

    And believe me, it affects ALL minorities including East Asians

    I am sure it does but it hasn’t seemed to have affected Indian immigrant women’s choices for men. They seem to strongly prefer South Asian men over White guys. This from a country which has English as an official language. (which basically all the educated people speak with fluency..) while Japan, Korea, Taiwan, and Thailand which were never colonized by Whites and retain their national languages.

    In that light describing the relative greater interest by East Asian vs South Asian women towards White guys as being due to colonialism (as is often the case when I read lefty boards like Feminista..) seems to be a logical error. Something else is going on in those cultures.

    Like


  185. Are you then saying that because South Asian women have not respond to colonialism in the same way that East Asian women have, that neither response can be tied to colonialism?

    Like


  186. To King:

    Are you then saying that because South Asian women have not respond to colonialism in the same way that East Asian women have, that neither response can be tied to colonialism?

    I specifically mentioned Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan because they had never been colonized by Whites. Granted Japan and South Korea host US troops (which are generally not looked upon with favor..) but Taiwan was never occupied by US troops nor colonized by Whites yet women from there and daughters of Taiwanese immigrants seem to out marry and date Whites at a rather high rate.

    Like


  187. Japan was not formerly colonized, but after their defeat in WWII, they were occupied and restructured by the Allied forces (mostly American) which accomplished much the same psychological impact.

    But even cultures who were not directly colonized have been dominated economically, and exposed to self-aggrandizing Western media and literature for decades. If your entire geographical neighborhood is essentially at the mercy of, and influenced by the Eurocentric West, then the motivation of the ‘colonized mindset’ cannot so easily be swept aside.

    It’s kind of like saying that if your father was a child molester, but he only directly molested your sister, that you could somehow not be influenced by it, because he never crawled in your bed.

    No, I think that Japanese, South Korean, and Taiwanese women are just as motivated by the results of colonization. They have still been exposed to the idea and imagery that White men are symbolic of the worldwide ruling class and that coupling with them might bring the attached advantages.

    Like


  188. To King:

    Japan was not formerly colonized, but after their defeat in WWII, they were occupied and restructured by the Allied forces (mostly American) which accomplished much the same psychological impact.

    That’s why I narrowed the discussion to Taiwan… that and the US has received few Japanese immigrants in the last 50 years, so they are hardly part of the equation when it comes White male / Asian female relationships in the US. So why again are East Asian women susceptible to White propaganda but South Asian women are not..? Also why are White women choosing Black men at a rate 70% higher than Asian women are choosing White men…? Is the White global propaganda machine employed by the US painting Black men in a positive light more so than Asian women…?

    Like


  189. “So why again are East Asian women susceptible to White propaganda but South Asian women are not..?”

    I am not familiar enough, but I would assume there is some other factor in their culture that prevents them from reacting in the same manner as East Asian women have.

    Black women also have a much harder time trusting White men than Black men seem to have in trusting White women, even though Black men and women suffered under the same oppression in the United States. They just process and react the experience differently.

    “Also why are White women choosing Black men at a rate 70% higher than Asian women are choosing White men…?”

    Probably because Black men have historically been kept away from them upon pain of death (for the Black man, of course) Forbidden fruit, yada yada… etc.

    Like


  190. You want to know about Asian fetish? Here ya go.

    Like


  191. @ leigh

    Yikes! She doesn’t look terribly happy does she?

    Like


  192. @King:

    @ leigh

    Yikes! She doesn’t look terribly happy does she?

    Poor thing. She looks absolutely miserable.

    Like


  193. She’s probably wondering when that big Polar Bear is going to eat her.

    Like


  194. ^^WOW that looks really bad.

    Like


  195. To leigh204

    You want to know about Asian fetish? Here ya go.

    That looks like they are in the Philippines… in reality not a very common sight in the US…

    Would it be acceptable to you if I posted a photo of a slender Black man with an obese White woman and said “You want to know about White fetish? Here ya go.”

    I mean after all Leigh in the US, White women marrying or cohabitating with Black men is 70% more common White men marrying or cohabitating with Asian women and occasionally you do see slender Black men with obese White women.

    Or would you think that is a false stereotype (as I do ) that in reality would apply to less than 5% of BM/WF couples..?

    Like


  196. @Uncle Milton:

    This post is about Asian fetish. Hence, I found a pic of a heavy, white guy and Asian woman. I see lots of fat white guys with slender Asian women where I’m from.

    Like


  197. To Leigh204:

    I see lots of fat white guys with slender Asian women where I’m from.

    It’s not very common in Northern California…what’s going on with the women..?

    As for the photo… well what can I say.. likely an arrangement of sorts… she’s hired herself out or effectively has. Problematic at multiple levels but not necessarily an example of an Asian fetish. I doubt that guy would turn away a slender White woman if she were available to him.

    Like


  198. @Uncle Milton:

    Problematic at multiple levels but not necessarily an example of an Asian fetish. I doubt that guy would turn away a slender White woman if she were available to him.

    I doubt that guy would turn away a hamburger if given the opportunity.

    Like


  199. To Leigh204:

    I doubt that guy would turn away a hamburger if given the opportunity.

    Make that two orders and super size them with an order of large fries and an extra large coke….

    Yeah… that guy does not “represent..”

    Like


  200. @ Uncle Milton:

    “… it hasn’t seemed to have affected Indian immigrant women’s choices for men. They seem to strongly prefer South Asian men over White guys. This from a country which has English as an official language. (which basically all the educated people speak with fluency..) while Japan, Korea, Taiwan, and Thailand which were never colonized by Whites and retain their national languages.”

    A few factors are at play here.

    * South Asian religious and cultural traditions (Hindu, Muslim, Sikh) mean that there is a great deal of expectation to marry within that faith/ethnic group. East and Southeast Asians are quite different, in that religious fervor is generally not so important. Buddhism and other traditions (Taoism, Shintoism, etc) are less rigid, and China has never been strongly religious anyway. This is why many East Asians in the West have become Christian to an extent that South Asians have not. Filipinos were already Catholic. So religion and culture are not great obstacles to intermarriage for East Asians, but it’s still a matter worthy of great consternation for many South Asian families.

    * Related to the previous point, South Asian culture is more strongly patriarchal than East Asian culture. This means that greater emphasis is placed on controlling “their” women; ie. their is social resistance to outside men trying to date the women.

    * Skin colour. I’m just guessing here, but you’d have to imagine that white men, who generally have a preference for lightish skin, might well be somewhat more disposed to lighter-skinned East Asians than darker South Asians.

    * Length of settlement. I’m not so sure about the US, but here in Australia, the East Asian community is longer-established than the South Asian community. This means a greater level of integration with the white mainstream.

    Like


  201. Ah… Eurasian is basically filling in the blanks that I was saying that I’m not familiar with. But I though as much.

    “I am not familiar enough, but I would assume there is some other factor in their culture that prevents them from reacting in the same manner as East Asian women have.”

    Like


  202. @Leigh204

    I love it. A picture of two people at a train station, and you label it “asian fetish.” You’re just an insecure asian guy posing as a woman, aren’t you? LOL. Or a racist, self-obsessed asian woman who is most likely not very attractive. But the goal is to hate white men. That actually happens a lot on blogs like this…

    @King

    Here’s another example of usage of an analogy goes both ways: if you say white people “colonized” Japan after WWII…. then yo Japan surely “colonized” many other areas in utterly inhumane and horrible ways. jus sayin…….We never hear about the Asian male leadership of the horrible Japanese imperial forces (READ: COLONIZATION) for some 30 (some would say 45) in NE Asia from about 1900 – 1945 when the Korean peninsula was split in two by the Soviets and the US.

    Let me remind you it was flat evil some of the things the Japanese did. and it was not in retaliation of something. (hint: Rape of Nanking, 1937, etc).

    Here’s the difference that needs to be made: Japan *colonized*, but the US forces *occupied*. And the US forces *had no choice.* BIG BIG DIFFERENCE, LOL.

    YO — They bombed our homes ina surprise attack in 1942. What provoked Japan to colonize first Korea, then Manchuria, then China, then many other nations in the region? NOTHING. SHEESH….. They forced countless millions under their authority and military skill. THEY ROUNDED UP KOREAN ‘COMFORT WOMEN’ FOR DECADES AND RAPED THEM WITH IMPUNITY……. Nanking was just a peak of how they ruled and oppressed and persecuted and maimed people’s lives and futures.

    BUT ——– The US forces OCCUPIED and SUBDUED because JAPAN nation violently bombed Pearl Harbor. What nation would have responded differently? It should be noted that when we DID occupy we tried our best to restore the country. We could have raized it. We had the right to raize that place. And we did not.

    And what about China? They are the *NEW COLONISTS*, the People’s Republic of China. All you have to do is google, “China tibet colonization occupation” and thousands of entries will come up that plainly show that China — though in a very PR-savvy, and chillingly systematic way — is literally RAPING Tibet while the world simply stands around and watch. The Dali Lama watches from Daramsala, helpless, proclaiming his ideology of non-violence while his native Tibet is swallowed, whole, by the PROC communist colonization machine. It’s really horrible.”

    Further, look at how China is trying to take over regions of Africa for the resources. Just saying…new colonialism.

    My point, King, is that you are making a lot of claims with only assumptions about racial effects and their *direct* correlation with dating practices of today. That’s just not possible without some hard data, and this, again, is what fuels race wars: assumptions about modern stuff that is connected to present stuff, when we do not have evidence of a connection at all; might be just incidental. Jus sayin….

    >>>> But more importantly, you NEVER make a distinction between occupation and colonization. They are two different things. If you want to make a case for white colonization, you cannot do it with America at all… that would be the UK, in the c19, opium wars, treaties of Nanjing, tianjin, et all. it was all very unfair (hence “unfair treaties) and they did occupy. America commerce were part of that, but the UK led the way for sure………

    The c20 is a different ball of wax.

    And the main impulse for US involvement in Asia in the c20 was ASIAN COLONIZATION AND AGGRESSION IN THE FIRST PLACE.

    Like


  203. I am an East Asian American female and dated all different races but mostly white males. The most important reason is because white males are the mostly (by number) available males at my academic and professional settings with similar backgrounds as I am (education, economy, stable family background) Also one thing that is very important many people forgot to comment is that acceptance by the family and friends on both sides (male and female) is very important also. I would not (and my asian friends also) date or marry a man if I am not accepted by his family and friends and same for him getting accepted by my family and friends. In other words, race is not the foremost issue here but more of the similar values, socio-economic backgrounds, and cultural acceptance/open-mind on both side. Yes I do have several AF/WM couples around me but none were looking for Asian female or White male in particular with racial stereotypes in mind. Simply these couples met on natural settings where most couples usually meet (school, work, social setting/friends) because they had similar qualities that they were looking for in their potential mates.

    Like


  204. Marie11

    I agree with you that what you point out does accout for *some* of the AF/WM couplings, but it doesn’t seem to address the interracial disparity between AF/WM couplings and AM/WF pairings.

    for example, take 2006 in the USA

    http://www.census.gov/population/www/socdemo/hh-fam/cps2006.html

    Here are the numbers aggregated for convenience:
    AM/WF marriages: 174,000
    AF/WM marriages: 530,000

    We seem to find this vast difference in interracial marriage statistics in every country in which Whites comprise the majority and Asians comprise a significant minority.

    So, we are stuck with the problem of the numbers always painting a picture of Asian women “outdating” at a much higher rate than Asian men. Nevertheless, many Asian women (such as yourself) believe this disparity to be the result of statistically predictable ethnic cross exposure rather than ethnic value selection.

    I guess the question that I would ask is why it doesn’t work the same way for Asian men?

    Like


  205. Hugh
    @Leigh204

    I love it. A picture of two people at a train station, and you label it “asian fetish.” You’re just an insecure asian guy posing as a woman, aren’t you? LOL. Or a racist, self-obsessed asian woman who is most likely not very attractive. But the goal is to hate white men. That actually happens a lot on blogs like this…

    LOL! Yeah, Hugh, you got me figured out buddy. *rolls eyes*

    Like


  206. “Also one thing that is very important many people forgot to comment is that acceptance by the family and friends on both sides (male and female) is very important also. I would not (and my asian friends also) date or marry a man if I am not accepted by his family and friends and same for him getting accepted by my family and friends. In other words, race is not the foremost issue here but more of the similar values, socio-economic backgrounds, and cultural acceptance/open-mind on both side.”

    Again, this makes some sense, but you also have to consider that if everybody in society simply conformed to the expectations and comfort zones of their friends and family, then society would never change for the better. SOME people must be willing to step outside of the norm, and actually *challenge* their little circle of friends and say, “Why can’t you be comfortable with this?” You cannot assume that your friends initial discomfort will not be transformed by your own open mindedness and bravery.

    It is alway easiest to simply “fit in.” But sometimes, it serves a higher purpose to assault the status quo, and pioneer the undiscovered county of the new, unknown and previously unacceptable.

    Like


  207. King,

    Asian females tend to assimilate to western culture a lot faster and more so than Asian males. That might explain part of the reasons why there are more AF/WM unions and a lot less AM/WF unions. Many AF/WM unions I know are mostly professionals so AF tend to go for mates who are more supportive of their career and open views on female social issues. I saw several second generation AM/WF couples around me. Second generation AM are already westernized so it is a lot easier for them to marry outside their group.

    In Eastern Asian (Korea, Japan, China) culture family is very important and when you get married you are not just finding your mate. You are also bringing a new member to your family and they view it as union of two families more less. So from the very beginning, East Asian Americans have value system not just looking for your mate only and also getting accepted by your mate’s family is very important. This value system goes even down to beyond first generation but becomes diluted.
    It is a lot to do with Confucius philosophy they grew up with. They have a lot of respect towards their parents and family.

    Like


  208. @bluebird

    Lisa Ling is married to an Asian man. I know. Shocking!

    Funny post, however.

    Like


  209. So… I found some information I thought would be worth sharing. I’ve read this ‘Marring Out’ study from the Pew Research Center b4, but not in the full PDF. Check pg 9 on the link. It will be easier to see the info there…

    White IR marriage in 2008
    -9% of WM; 8.8% of WW married inter-racially.
    -WM/AW(26.9%); WW/AM(9.4%)
    -WM/BW(6.9%); WW/BM(20.1%)
    -Similar #’s of both genders married Hispanics & “others”

    Asian IR marriage in ’08
    -19.5% of AM; 39.5% of AW married inter-racially
    -AM/WW(70.9%); AW/WM(76.8%)
    -AM/BW(4.8%); AW/BM(7.2%)
    -AM/HW(17.7%);AW/HM(9.5%)

    So I noticed that 4 the newlyweds in ’08 WW & WM have similar rates married to another race/ethnic. About half of whites 4rm both genders are w/ Hispanics. WM r more likely to marry an AW than a BW & WW are more likely to marry a BM than an AM. I guess if White men have an Asian fetish WW must have a Black fetish…(not sure if either is tru)

    Asians also differ in marriage patterns. AW are obviously more likely to marry non-Asian. When they do go out, their 1st choice is a BM & an AM’s 1st pick is Hispanic.

    Note:Keep in mind these are the #’s for Newlyweds in ’08. Not all married couples. Out of all currently married whites 4.7% are w/ POC(guess that term is useful) at a similar # for both gender. Currently married Asians-9.3% AM; 21.&% AW.
    http://pewsocialtrends.org/files/2010/10/755-marrying-out.pdf

    Like


  210. @Cynic,

    Thank you for the link. Very interesting article!

    On page 8, I found the statistics on what I wrote above regarding disparity of AM and AF marrying out. Here look at it closely,

    “The native born AM marry out 4 (400%) times than foreign born AM.”

    In my personal observation, the foreign born AM still hold very rigid Asian cultural values (more male dominant culture) which are not suited for marrying out. But the native born AM hold Westernized values which make them a lot more suitable for marrying out. The foreign born AF marry out at high percentage because Western cultural values are more female friendly compare to Asian cultural values and AF tend to assimilate to Western cultural values a lot faster and more so than the foreign born AM. The below article is from the link (page 9).
    ==============================
    The disparity among
    native- and foreign-born Asians is not as great,
    but it is still significant; native-born Asian-
    Americans are nearly twice as likely as those
    who are foreign born to marry a non-Asian.
    Here again, there are sharp gender differences.
    Among Asian men, the native born are nearly
    four times as likely as the foreign born to marry
    out. Among Asian women, the native born are
    only about 50% more likely than the foreign born to marry a non-Asian.

    Like


  211. ” You’re just an insecure asian guy posing as a woman, aren’t you? LOL. Or a racist, self-obsessed asian woman who is most likely not very attractive. But the goal is to hate white men. That actually happens a lot on blogs like this…

    Your an overly offensive white woman posing as a white man. You are bitter, jealous, and most likely unattractive:

    http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS-pgGCXMOlR9J-j5hqeRq1NMfqLtrTJTHLbuD4izGatouUFVIE

    Or a self-obsessed racist white man:

    http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSnIr6tZJeBlw9OiL5_w1KfWwTt-BQF26dEUxrf3kPNdDG5SR5f

    But your goal is to hate the asian men, hence you troll blogs such as this to vent these negative feelings!! Good day madam, or is it sir?!

    Like


  212. @Hugh: This is a post about Asian fetishists, not the history of Japan during WWII. Capiche? Oh, and Hugh, leave Leigh alone as she is a fellow Canuck!

    Like


  213. @Herneith:

    Aww, Herneith. Thank you for defending me against this horrible, HORRIBLE person. LOL! 😀

    We Canucks stick together, eh? 😉

    Much love, girl. 🙂

    Like


  214. @Herneith

    “But your goal is to hate the asian men, hence you troll blogs such as this to vent these negative feelings!! Good day madam, or is it sir?!”

    Who were you referring to?

    I mam following the comment thread.

    Thanks.

    Like


  215. well i must say that this has just been fascinating

    Like


  216. And I also must post specifically to Heneith’s bizarre post above, complete with bizarre photo-shopped pictures of white men! LOL! More bizarre entertainment from insecure asian men!

    Says Herneith:
    “Your an overly offensive white woman posing as a white man. You are bitter, jealous, and most likely unattractive”

    LOL. Ok, I am an “overly offensive white woman… bitter, jealous…” Right. So tell me, Herneith, why in the world would a “bitter, jealous, unattractive” white women defend white men, buddy?! LOL. Not that there are NOT jealous white women – they are jealous of asian women sometimes. But that would give them motive to *demonize* white men — and the do sometimes — but not DEFEND white men that have relationships with asian women. Um, Herneith, in your attempt to slander me with bizarre, creepy pictures and make me look like an evil hater of all things asian…. um… did you stop to think about your logic? I don’t think so.

    Says Herneith:
    “But your goal is to hate the asian men.”

    LOL. Just go up to earlier posts, Herneith. I make it very clear that I do not think all asian men are like you.

    Have a good day.

    Like


  217. You’ve made two posts essentially saying blah, blah, blah. In other words, not mentioning anything of importance. Shoo, Hugh. Oh, and Hugh. Bite me. lol! 😀

    Oh, Herneith. We’ve ruffled his chicken feathers.

    Like


  218. I see Hugh must really be bored to come to a blog that doesn’t agree with his “views”.

    On the subject at hand I can relate to the frustrations. When I see someone dating someone of another race, I wonder if they are ginuinely interested in who that person IS as apposed to WHAT they are and the sexual, intimate myths and personality stereotypes associated with their identities. In other words are they with them for love or for sex?

    When you think about it, it’s no different than dating someone of the same race and(or) gender. You wonder why the person is interested in another person regardless of ethnicity. Though, it’s much more highlighted when it comes to interracial dating.

    Like


  219. @ brothawolf

    On some level, almost all sexual attraction is based on fantasy and mythology. Black guys “fetishize” an ideal Black woman (who does not exist in real life). Everybody does this to some extent. It just becomes more obvious when you date a person of another culture/ethnicity.

    Like


  220. Abagond:

    Asian women are free-agents, therefore, they can sleep with, date, and marry whom they please. They’re not joined at the hip to asian men, and whitewomen have the same mindset. Asian women from the mainland, and those who hail from south asia behave in the same way, as it relates to inter-racial romance with non-asian men. White and yellow complexioned asian women tend to like whitemen by and large, and the brown and caramel complexioned asian women like white and blackmen, some more, some less. Personally, I think asian women from Thailand, Vietnam, Cambodia, Myanmar, Indonesia, and Malaysia are some of the most beautiful women on the planet, and that’s a wonderful thing. Blackmen should be able to acknowledge beauty in other women of color, and be okay with it at the same time. But, in order for that mindset to take hold, blackmen have to love themselves and blackwomen as well. The greatest gift that blackmen can give to all women on this planet, is, love of self and blackwomen. As blackmen, we want the crown and all the perks that come with it, but not the responsibility. Abagond, if we want all the women to worship at our feet, we gotta take care of home first. I want blackwomen to remember this equation, as it relates to blackmen and inter-racial relationships……1+4=1 Blackmen…Blackwomen…Whitewomen…Asian Women…Native-American Women. Sistas, understand the racial and sexual dynamics that are at play on the planet?

    Tyrone
    Reality Mode

    Like


  221. Leigh204 says “bite me.” That’s pretty bizarre since you are an insecure asian male parading as an asian woman. Um – I think I’ll pass on “biting you” Leigh204. Thanks, though. LOL.

    On a more serious note, I am not sure why my prior post was deleted concerning further thoughts about this guy, but here is a run-down. In the end, Leigh204’s posts are unlettered and unintelligent. It is par on course for blunt racism: no thought — just demonize a whole group of people wholesale, in the fastest, easiest way. Doing it anonymously on a blog is the easiest way. Add this to the fact that they guy has serious insecurity issues that need to be worked out with a professional psychologist.

    I am not saying that this is only an Asian male issue. As a white man, I know that there are plenty of insecure white men. They are in the exact same category as insecure asian men who wants to make white men look evil and predatory. (IE: Leigh204) I’ve seen it countless times. Some asian men market and promote the idea that white men are all fat, stupid and “obsessed” with asian women. It’s dehumanizing, racist nonsense.

    My point is that the reckless dehumanization of males of all races needs to stop. White male stereotyping of asian men needs to stop also. And insecure white men who flit around the web posting things about asian male penis-sizes are ridiculous insecure dumb-asses who should be categorized in the same way that Leigh204 should be. Ultimately, it is not a racial issue, it is an insecurity issue. But white men must stop recklessly stereotyping males of other races.

    We must aggressively see ourselves as MEN, in our maleness together, trying to work out our stuff together in a messed up world. Is that possible? I’m not sure. But it is better than all men from different races constantly looking over our shoulders, constantly trying to make our race look better, or that “other” race look bad.

    This is a clarion call to men of ALL races to come together – not around our differences – but around our common desire to live in peace.

    Hugh

    Like


  222. It’s very amusing how someone like Hugh constantly talks about insecure Asian men.

    Talk about obsessed. lol! 😉 D

    Like


  223. So tell me, Herneith, why in the world would a “bitter, jealous, unattractive” white women defend white men, buddy?! LOL.

    In the hopes of gettting a leg-over or a date from them? Who knows?

    Um, Herneith, in your attempt to slander me with bizarre, creepy pictures and make me look like an evil hater of all things asian…. um… did you stop to think about your logic? I don’t think so.

    That’s just it ‘Hugh’, there is no ‘logic’ to my post, but then the same could be said for yours. I was spoofing your replies dear.

    LOL. Just go up to earlier posts, Herneith. I make it very clear that I do not think all asian men are like you.

    I should hope not as I am not asian nor am I a man, LOL, hardy har hoo and so on and so forth.

    Like


  224. In the end, Leigh204′s posts are unlettered and unintelligent.

    How else do expect people to respond to nonsense? Analyze it, break it down, debate it? No, you offer up more nonsense!

    Add this to the fact that they guy has serious insecurity issues that need to be worked out with a professional psychologist.

    Are you going to pay for it?

    Some asian men market and promote the idea that white men are all fat, stupid and “obsessed”

    You mean they aint?

    White male stereotyping of asian men needs to stop also.

    Fat chance of that if they can use it to do the horizontal mambo with those broads!

    But it is better than all men from different races constantly looking over our shoulders, constantly trying to make our race look better, or that “other” race look bad.

    A pity that, and all in the name of getting a leg over!

    This is a clarion call to men of ALL races to come together – not around our differences – but around our common desire to live in peace.

    Where’s the fun in that for you men?

    Like


  225. “On some level, almost all sexual attraction is based on fantasy and mythology. Black guys “fetishize” an ideal Black woman (who does not exist in real life). Everybody does this to some extent. It just becomes more obvious when you date a person of another culture/ethnicity.”

    -King

    That’s what I’m saying. We fantasize when we see someone or something that grabs our attention. We do that more so before seeing who that person is.

    Like


  226. @ Hugh:
    since you are a relative newcomer to this blog, allow me to school you briefly. Leigh204 has been commenting here for years, on virtually every issue covered. So if she is indeed an “insecure Asian man posing as an Asian woman”, I must say she has worked extremely hard to cultivate this ruse (and identity as a young Filipino-Canadian woman) all this time, JUST so she can bash white men on this thread.

    Or alternatively, perhaps it’s more likely that you just don’t know what you are talking about, and hae such difficulty understanding someone else’s point of view that you have to invent things about them just so it makes sense to you.

    For the record, I’m an elderly African-American woman posing as a thirtysomething half-white, half-Indonesian guy from Australia.

    Like


  227. I love it! More hilarious entertainment from Leigh204 — our resident insecure asian guy mad at white men, parading as an asian woman. Ha! Another ditsy comment with a smiley that means nothing. LOL. I’m enjoying it though, so keep going Leigh204! It gets funnier every time! Cheers.

    Herneith? “There’s no logic to your post???” Um – could not have said it better myself! I guess you said it all. LOL

    I look forward to the next goofy post from Leigh204, which will consist of a ditsy comment, and a bunch of smilies in order to make his “argument.” (?!)

    LOL!

    Have a great one, mates,
    Hugh

    Like


  228. @Eurasian Sensation:

    Ahh, my dear man, Hugh has nothing better to do, but to argue for the sake of arguing. Look at his posts. His obsession with Asian men is, for a lack of a better word, highly disturbing. He must love to to hear himself prattle on and on. lol! And as you know, I don’t need to justify myself to the likes of Hugh. Not that I needed it, but thank you for coming to my defense. We all know Hugh’s the insecure one here.

    Like


  229. Careful Eurasian Sensation,

    You forget that you are suspected of being a secret racist! I realize that no actual links have been given as evidence, but still… You are in no position to vouch for leigh204 Lol!

    I wonder when people will finally understand that this is the internet. You either accept that people are who they say, of else you just decide that nobody is who they say, and turn it off.

    Personally, I’m just waiting for someone to decide that I’m an 40-year old White divorcee. Because I will take that opportunity to Ad Hominem them so HARD that they won’t be able to walk the next morning!!

    Like


  230. @ King:
    “I wonder when people will finally understand that this is the internet. You either accept that people are who they say, or else you just decide that nobody is who they say, and turn it off.”

    I must say that the “eternal suspicion” option sounds rather more fun. With that in mind, I’m going to guess that all the middle-aged white male commenters are actually young lesbians from Damascus, Hugh is an Asian woman in a relationship with a white man and who refuses to date Asian men, while xxxphantomxxx is a 14 year-old white gangsta rap fan from Idaho, and Abagond is an Indian woman writing this blog from a call centre in Calcutta.

    Like


  231. Lol Focus on the topic, people.

    Like


  232. Well, It doesn’t really matter whether leigh204 is male or female, her posts fit the pattern that I have seen many times. Asian men do pose as asian women, get called out, and then disappear. In the end, if she is female then WOW – she is after white men for some reason, as I will show below. She has not nuanced any arguments. She has not made any salient points. She has simply demonized WM/AF relationships. Period. That is why I responded to her nonsense.

    But this is characteristic of the Asian community sometimes. Not all of them in any way, but some of them (like Leigh204) simply choose to be creepy about everything. They have no real reason to demonize these relationships based on racial makeup. They *just do.* And that is creepy.

    Take the post Leigh204 made to this very thread on on Wed 30 Mar 2011 at 04:27:

    You want to know about Asian fetish? Here ya go.

    The link is now dead, but it used to be a picture of a big fat white guy with an average looking asian woman. Absolutely perfect to prove my point that Leigh204 simply wants to demonize relationships between AW and WMs. It’s creepy. She gives no arguments. She just shows us an image of two people sitting down in a train station. But the disturbing part is that we are led to believe that the fat white guy has some sort of “obsession” with Asian women. We are subtly being led to believe that ALL white men with Asian women have this. And of course, all white men with Asian women are overweight losers. Right?

    But wait: do we know this guy? Do we know the woman? Do we know this situation? Does Leigh204 care about the real lives of these two human beings? LOL – it’s obvious what she thinks about these two people. She wants to take a picture she googled (I’m sure it was “fat white guy asian woman”) and use it be become the visual signifier for something evil and repulsive.

    But let’s see how other posters replied to her post of the pic of the big disgusting fat white guy. Surely they pointed out the flaw here, right? They caught the fact that this is really unfair, of course, only focusing on physical appearance, race, and conjecture to make these dehumanizing judgments, right?

    Wrong.

    Wed 30 Mar 2011 at 05:03:10
    King
    @ leigh: Yikes! She doesn’t look terribly happy does she?

    Wed 30 Mar 2011 at 05:27:55:
    leigh204
    @King: Poor thing. She looks absolutely miserable.

    Wed 30 Mar 2011 at 05:31:10
    King
    She’s probably wondering when that big Polar Bear is going to eat her.

    Wed 30 Mar 2011 at 05:44:41
    Aiyo
    ^^WOW that looks really bad.

    I just love it. And then many of the same people turn around and call me “racist.” You all are reifying the very racism you decry. You are doing the very things — detestable things — that white people did in the past as they attempted to marginalize other racial groups and maintain hegemony. Are you becoming the very thing that you hate? Creating repulsive, gross monsters for you and your friends to demonize and rally against?

    And this is the Leigh204’s who says that I – ME – I am “obsessed,” the things I say are “disturbing.” Right? LOL. And she is THE CREEPIEST one of them all when she makes no effort to know people before she labels them as such! The two people sitting in a train station are no longer human beings who simply love each other; they are ugly, fat, disgusting robots who have no volition or ability or right to be in love with each other, or to sit and have a snack in a public place. They should be thrown in jail for their disgusting stupidity and repulsive acts, right? Oh wait – maybe we should put labels on their clothing? Like a big yellow arm band with a big “F” which means, of course, “fetish.” Hmm.. this is sounding vaguely familiar somehow to a past era… hmm….

    And trust me: I’ve dealt with the Leigh204 type many times. Many of them are convinced that all men think Asians are the most beautiful race. Seriously. And because many Asians believe this silly mythology, they then inscribe the myth onto me, as a white man. If you believe you are better than every other race of women, then how can white men NOT obsess about me as an Asian woman—even if I am not physically attractive?

    But I find this Asian mythology that everyone is obsessed with Asian women to be fascinating, actually. As I have said, I am decidedly NOT obsessed with Asian women. I find ALL women attractive. And not that there are not really attractive, solid asian women out there who are wonderful people. I’ve dated them. They are completely different than Leigh204.

    My point is that Asian women many times are obsessed with themselves to the point that they think they are the most attractive race among women. LOL. But the creepy part of it is when then they inscribe their self-obsession onto white men who simply say in our minds, “Oh – she seems like an interesting person. Maybe I will ask her out for a coffee….” Then the “asian obsession” army kicks in and we are all “obsessed with asian women” just because we went out for coffee! LOL.

    It’s actually entertaining when I date an asian woman, and other asian women feel that they have the ability to judge our relationship as somehow not valid simply because I am white—and she is Asian. The Leigh204’s instantly label us, making it clear they disapprove. Do they know us? Do they try to understand why we are together? Do they care? Well, of course not. It’s so racist that it makes my hair curl. But unfortunately, it happens sometimes. Oh well.

    But I have to say something here. You non-Asian women need to remember that this Asian mythology that you are not as attractive is complete nonsense. But black women are unique as well, and I have no idea why black women feel they are somehow inferior to Asian women! That is not true. Black women are incredible people. I have dated some. Women from every race have different physical characteristics, and as Tyrone pointed out, there is nothing wrong with being attracted to some of those characteristics – it is called “attraction” and it is primeval and natural and involuntary.

    Finally – I have made it clear that all Asian women are not like Leigh204. Further, I have made it clear that all asian men do not troll blogs and pose as Asian women. There are many Asian folks out there who are strong, solid, healthy human beings who find no solace in trashing multicultural relationships in order to make themselves feel better. Many of them are capable of approaching an inter-racial relationship with intelligence and with honest attraction and concern for the other party.

    And as for me, sorry Leigh204. I am a very successful good looking guy with an ivy-league degree. I get hit on by women of ALL races. Sorry I cannot fit your racist profile of a fat, repulsive loser white guy with asian fetish who can only get average asian women. LOL. As me and my friends look at it, people go out with their physical equivalent – regardless of race. If you are hot, you go out with Hot women; average with average; ugly with ugly. Simple as that. And it does not need to be racialized because my friends include men who are Indian, black, and asian. They go out with women of all races. My Indian buddy is engaged to a hot jewish girl with blonde hair and blue eyes. Why? Because they are confident and secure in who they are. And, THAT is what makes a human being attractive. (IE: hot)

    So when I see twits like Leigh204 flit around with racialized, self-obsessed nonsense like she is, I feel the need—no, I feel compelled— to set the record straight. I’m sure she will come back with a post like “Oh, you are so dumb hugh. Go away. Tee-hee tee-hee.” LOL.

    Like


  233. Oh, Hugh, Hugh, Hugh.

    Well, It doesn’t really matter whether leigh204 is male or female, her posts fit the pattern that I have seen many times. Asian men do pose as asian women, get called out, and then disappear. In the end, if she is female then WOW – she is after white men for some reason, as I will show below. She has not nuanced any arguments. She has not made any salient points. She has simply demonized WM/AF relationships. Period. That is why I responded to her nonsense.

    As always, I don’t have anything to prove anything to you, but for some reason, you keep trying to prove something. Tryhard, huh?

    But this is characteristic of the Asian community sometimes. Not all of them in any way, but some of them (like Leigh204) simply choose to be creepy about everything. They have no real reason to demonize these relationships based on racial makeup. They *just do.* And that is creepy.

    Speaking of creepy….

    Take the post Leigh204 made to this very thread on on Wed 30 Mar 2011 at 04:27:

    You want to know about Asian fetish? Here ya go.

    The link is now dead, but it used to be a picture of a big fat white guy with an average looking asian woman. Absolutely perfect to prove my point that Leigh204 simply wants to demonize relationships between AW and WMs. It’s creepy. She gives no arguments. She just shows us an image of two people sitting down in a train station. But the disturbing part is that we are led to believe that the fat white guy has some sort of “obsession” with Asian women. We are subtly being led to believe that ALL white men with Asian women have this. And of course, all white men with Asian women are overweight losers. Right?

    lol! Trying to put words into something I didn’t even say. Please try again.

    Like


  234. @Hugh:

    But wait: do we know this guy? Do we know the woman? Do we know this situation? Does Leigh204 care about the real lives of these two human beings? LOL – it’s obvious what she thinks about these two people. She wants to take a picture she googled (I’m sure it was “fat white guy asian woman”) and use it be become the visual signifier for something evil and repulsive.

    Yeah, I googled white guy asian woman and that’s the very first pic that showed up. *rolls eyes* Btw, this post is about asian fetish and it IS something evil and repulsive.

    But let’s see how other posters replied to her post of the pic of the big disgusting fat white guy. Surely they pointed out the flaw here, right? They caught the fact that this is really unfair, of course, only focusing on physical appearance, race, and conjecture to make these dehumanizing judgments, right?

    Wrong.

    Wed 30 Mar 2011 at 05:03:10
    King
    @ leigh: Yikes! She doesn’t look terribly happy does she?

    Wed 30 Mar 2011 at 05:27:55:
    leigh204
    @King: Poor thing. She looks absolutely miserable.

    Wed 30 Mar 2011 at 05:31:10
    King
    She’s probably wondering when that big Polar Bear is going to eat her.

    Wed 30 Mar 2011 at 05:44:41
    Aiyo
    ^^WOW that looks really bad.

    I just love it. And then many of the same people turn around and call me “racist.” You all are reifying the very racism you decry. You are doing the very things — detestable things — that white people did in the past as they attempted to marginalize other racial groups and maintain hegemony. Are you becoming the very thing that you hate? Creating repulsive, gross monsters for you and your friends to demonize and rally against?

    Ahh, more conjecturing on your part, Hugh. Btw, these posters who commented about the pic of the morbidly obese white guy and Asian woman can obviously see what you can’t or don’t want to admit. She’s absolutely miserable. Look at the way he holds on to her. He won’t let her go. Yeah, as the old saying goes, a picture says a thousand words.

    Like


  235. @Hugh:

    And this is the Leigh204′s who says that I – ME – I am “obsessed,” the things I say are “disturbing.” Right? LOL. And she is THE CREEPIEST one of them all when she makes no effort to know people before she labels them as such! The two people sitting in a train station are no longer human beings who simply love each other; they are ugly, fat, disgusting robots who have no volition or ability or right to be in love with each other, or to sit and have a snack in a public place. They should be thrown in jail for their disgusting stupidity and repulsive acts, right? Oh wait – maybe we should put labels on their clothing? Like a big yellow arm band with a big “F” which means, of course, “fetish.” Hmm.. this is sounding vaguely familiar somehow to a past era… hmm….

    And trust me: I’ve dealt with the Leigh204 type many times. Many of them are convinced that all men think Asians are the most beautiful race. Seriously. And because many Asians believe this silly mythology, they then inscribe the myth onto me, as a white man. If you believe you are better than every other race of women, then how can white men NOT obsess about me as an Asian woman—even if I am not physically attractive?

    But I find this Asian mythology that everyone is obsessed with Asian women to be fascinating, actually. As I have said, I am decidedly NOT obsessed with Asian women.

    I find ALL women attractive. And not that there are not really attractive, solid asian women out there who are wonderful people. I’ve dated them. They are completely different than Leigh204.

    Hmm. Not obsessed and yet you keep talking about Asian women and their “mythologies.” Riiiight.

    My point is that Asian women many times are obsessed with themselves to the point that they think they are the most attractive race among women. LOL. But the creepy part of it is when then they inscribe their self-obsession onto white men who simply say in our minds, “Oh – she seems like an interesting person. Maybe I will ask her out for a coffee….” Then the “asian obsession” army kicks in and we are all “obsessed with asian women” just because we went out for coffee! LOL.

    Keep on talk about projecting, Hugh. I can see that’s what your true intention is.

    Like


  236. It’s actually entertaining when I date an asian woman, and other asian women feel that they have the ability to judge our relationship as somehow not valid simply because I am white—and she is Asian. The Leigh204′s instantly label us, making it clear they disapprove. Do they know us? Do they try to understand why we are together? Do they care? Well, of course not. It’s so racist that it makes my hair curl. But unfortunately, it happens sometimes. Oh well.

    Again, this is about Asian fetish. I must’ve hit a raw nerve.

    But I have to say something here. You non-Asian women need to remember that this Asian mythology that you are not as attractive is complete nonsense. But black women are unique as well, and I have no idea why black women feel they are somehow inferior to Asian women! That is not true. Black women are incredible people. I have dated some. Women from every race have different physical characteristics, and as Tyrone pointed out, there is nothing wrong with being attracted to some of those characteristics – it is called “attraction” and it is primeval and natural and involuntary.

    Finally – I have made it clear that all Asian women are not like Leigh204. Further, I have made it clear that all asian men do not troll blogs and pose as Asian women. There are many Asian folks out there who are strong, solid, healthy human beings who find no solace in trashing multicultural relationships in order to make themselves feel better. Many of them are capable of approaching an inter-racial relationship with intelligence and with honest attraction and concern for the other party.

    And as for me, sorry Leigh204. I am a very successful good looking guy with an ivy-league degree. I get hit on by women of ALL races. Sorry I cannot fit your racist profile of a fat, repulsive loser white guy with asian fetish who can only get average asian women. LOL. As me and my friends look at it, people go out with their physical equivalent – regardless of race. If you are hot, you go out with Hot women; average with average; ugly with ugly. Simple as that. And it does not need to be racialized because my friends include men who are Indian, black, and asian. They go out with women of all races. My Indian buddy is engaged to a hot jewish girl with blonde hair and blue eyes. Why? Because they are confident and secure in who they are. And, THAT is what makes a human being attractive. (IE: hot)

    So when I see twits like Leigh204 flit around with racialized, self-obsessed nonsense like she is, I feel the need—no, I feel compelled— to set the record straight. I’m sure she will come back with a post like “Oh, you are so dumb hugh. Go away. Tee-hee tee-hee.” LOL.

    Hey, Hugh. I have something for you. “Oh, you are so dumb hugh. Go away. Tee-hee tee-hee. LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!!!

    Like


  237. Hugh, you would do yourself a favor if you simply admitted that there is such a thing as an Asian fetish. In fact, you can pretty much say the same about every ethnicity.

    Is it really necessary for us to pummel you over the head with links to all the sights where White guys (mostly) are talking about their exclusive and attraction to Asian women, based on incorrect universal descriptions of them? If you want the links, just say the word, and I’ll go to work providing them.

    However, if you can acknowledge that there is such a thing as an “Asian fetish,” and Leigh204 posts what she sees as an example of it in practice (on a thread entitled ASIAN FETISH) then exactly how is that out of line?

    Did she say that EVERY White guy was fat?
    Did she say that every ASIAN girl was unhappy?
    Did she say the every WM/AF couple was the result of a fetish?

    Please answer.

    Like


  238. Sounds like Hugh really wants everyone to know that not only is there no such thing as an Asian fetish, but that he is personally not AT ALL attracted to Asian women in the slightest, and how dare you suggest he might be ignorant or prejudiced because of him setting the record straight on how unattractive he finds Asian women since he’s dated women of all colors and decided these things in, like, a totally objective manner, so that’s gotta be more important right?

    Anyways, Hugh I’m with you man! All those guys talking about how “exotic” and “subservient” they find Asian women, complementing their “ageless features” and saying with pride that they have “yellow fever” are all just expressing their deep, sincere, and not at all fetishizing love for this one particular group of women from a different race that they simply refuse to date outside of because all those other women are b!tches y’know?

    Yep. It all makes sense now. God I love the internet.

    Like


  239. @ King:
    We both did agree that earlier in this thread. I also mentioned that I strongly believe there is an Asian male-Asian female “fetish.” (if we use that term “fetish”) Ultimately, I have no problem admitting that there is a very small minority of people – of all races, and connecting with the secondary race or primary race – who you might say are “obsessed” with that particular racial/ethnic makeup for one reason or another. It is *certainly* not just WM > AF in any way. And they are certainly the small minority. (Also, the word “fetish” – technically – refers to a physical object that people use to facilitate a sexual experience. So to me, it is just a pop-moniker that has negative connotations that leads to inaccurate understanding.)

    I am sure that Leigh204 appreciates you coming to her defense, because she sure cannot defend herself. Her responses are classic non-responses. No surprise there.

    But her kind are dangerous because of how easily you accept her “proof” of said “fetish” in the form of a *photograph.* The big question here is *HOW DO WE KNOW* that there is some rare obsession, in the popular sense that we throw this term around? My argument is that we cannot know by outward appearances, skin color, ethnicity, or language. To know if someone is clinically “obsessed” with something/someone is a very careful consideration/judgment that can be made only after one knows the party very well.

    A photograph, or a passing glance, is NOT ENOUGH. That is reminiscent of past injustices to non-whites. (It also reminds me of modern racial profiling.) People were judged and convicted simply because of their skin color. What if the Leigh204 photograph were of a black man and a white woman in a train station in 1935 in Alabama and Leigh204 were a white woman showing it around to her racist friends? “Look! The white woman looks so miserable with this black man. It’s gross. He is obviously obsessed with white women. And she is a weak and unattractive white woman.” (implying that black men can only get sub-par white women) “It’s just horrible!” Leigh204 insists.
    But what if a white woman and a black man WERE in love in 1935, in alabama? Simply in love? What is the problem with that?

    I am decidedly NOT saying it is the same thing. Obviously black people went through much more in the past (and still sometimes do) than a white man being accused of “obsessive behavior” will today. But my point is this: *that is where it ultimately leads.* It leads to reckless, careless judgments about human beings — of all races — that makes it more convenient to marginalize, accuse, demonize, and emasculate. And ultimately reject as trash.

    @ Zek J Evets:
    Zek. It is painfully obvious that you have only read a few posts at the end of this thread. You need to read the whole thread before you jump in with silly assumptions about what I have said – or mean – or intend – or think.
    First: I never said anything like from your post: “You personally are not AT ALL attracted to Asian women in the slightest… how unattractive he finds Asian women …?”

    Um. Wrong. I sometimes find Asian women attractive for a number of different reasons. I sometimes find other women of other races attractive for a number of different reasons. In fact, Zek, I said that I have dated some wonderful Asian women in the past. The women I dated were beautiful individual human beings who I found attractive in a variety of ways. No secret there, Zek. But I guess it’s a secret for you, because you never actually read the thread before you come in to trash me. Right?

    Second: when you sarcastically talk about “all those guys” who say those things, I *hope* you are including Asian men, because, personally, I have never heard a *non-Asian* guy say anything from the list of odd monikers you rattle off. Not trying to trash asian guys, but *Asian men* are the ones who I have heard say things like “I just can’t see myself marrying someone without a little yellow in her skin” or “[Asian] women are the best in the world because of ____” or “Asian women age much better than ____ and that’s why I will marry one.” or “I think all white women are fat. Don’t you like Asian women, hugh?” or “Asian women are much more conservative than white women [speaking in the context of domesticity and household duties]” or “Asian women are much more loyal than white women.” or “Asian women are stronger” or “Asian women don’t bitch like European women.”

    Do some white guys say that stuff? I’m sure *some* do. But I have not heard them say it. I have heard Asian guys say that stuff. (and keep in mind I know plenty of asian guys who would definitely *not* say that stuff, also)

    I know I do not say it, because I think it’s silly. The Asian women I’ve known are all incredibly diverse; they are individuals who cannot be classed in specific ways. They are unique—each of them. And they all have the ability, as unique individuals, to decide who they are attracted to and who they are not attracted to.

    God I love the internet.

    Like


  240. It’s highly amusing how Hugh prattles on about Asian fetish. As I said earlier, I must’ve hit a raw nerve. Look at how worked up he gets with his wordy, bombastic posts. If it doesn’t concern him then why get worked up over it? Hmm. Curiouser and curiouser. 😀

    Like


  241. And as for me, sorry Leigh204. I am a very successful good looking guy with an ivy-league degree. I get hit on by women of ALL races.

    Really? How much money do you make? A big paychique goes a long way with women. If you possess this attribute, than looks be damned!

    It’s actually entertaining when I date an Asian woman, and other Asian women

    I am sure it is, as they could use a good laugh!

    So when I see twits like Leigh204 flit around with racialized, self-obsessed nonsense like she is, I feel the need—no, I feel compelled— to set the record straight.

    Why Hugh, that is mighty white of you. Teaching the racialized people the error of their ways, especially Leigh! Leigh, now be thankful that there are caring white men out there correcting the errors of your ways!

    But her kind are dangerous because of how easily you accept her “proof” of said “fetish” in the form of a *photograph.*</em.

    Hugh, that photo is illustrative of the post itself. It in no way denotes the babble you ascribe to it. In fact, I'll hazard a guess and say it is a bit tongue and cheek. Obviously it has hit a nerve as Leigh wrote.

    Hugh, you seem to have an underpinning of dislike for Asian men. Your colour blind racism is sickening to say the least. As for your contention that Leigh responds with non-responses, she doesn't have to respond to your nonsense at all. Your diatribes are a classic case of derailment if I ever read one. It contains all the classic arguments. My favourite; I am not racist because…You are! I'll second Leigh, you are dumb Hugh LOL TEEHEE hardy hoo!

    Oh Hugh, since you are a 'great looking ivy league guy whom all kinds of women find to be 'hot', I presume your buddies are like minded. Hugh, are any of them into interrestial dating? I am from Mars. I am confident and exude self-assurance, that's what's makes me beautiful. Here's me with my ex-boyfriend who happens to be human:

    No alien fetishist please!

    Like


  242. @ Hugh

    First, thanks for clarifying your thoughts on the existence of Asian fetish. But you missed the main point that I was addressing.

    If Leigh204 posts 1 picture of 1 WM/AF couple, as an example of a possible Asian fetish relationship, is that some sort of violation, and if it is, can you explain why?

    Like


  243. Leigh204:
    LOLOL… I just *love* how you never say *anything* of substance. It’s sooo hilarious and entertaining. And then you *insist* that I have this “fetish” that is attached to your bizarre mythology that I am obsessed with you. I have to thank you, Leigh204, because I’m just so entertained each time you post! Please, please keep ’em comin’… and can you add more smilies next time?? lol.

    And Herneith:
    I love it! Your argument is this: I am *racist* because I am the victim of *racism.* It’s almost like white men are complete gross animals meant to be trampled like garbage. When white men speak out that it is painful, we are to be trampled down again, because for me to speak about this dehumanization of me as a human being, is — to you — racist. Me trying to show that there is very little difference between dehumanization of human beings across all racial lines using similar patterns in history is — racist. Me trying to honestly communicate how dehumanizing, painful and hateful the propagation of certain stereotypes about white males is — racist. Me trying to make it clear that I do not think in any way that *all* Asians believe these things is — racist. Me trying to indicate that I have heard Asian men say things about Asian women that are always attributed to white men is — racist. Me trying to defend myself from silly mythologies that I am obsessed with a certain group of women is — racist.

    Your view of me? I am a big, non-human, evil, white male *racist* — a piece of shit garbage white man who has come to teach all the poor lesser races how to live. I have no capacity to be hurt or dehumanized. I am the other. The beast. THE WHITE RACIST…

    Really, Herneith??

    Let me interrupt your racist stereotype-fest by sharing a bit about myself.

    I grew up in a house where my mother would literally get livid and punish us all (two guys and two girls) when we even *whispered* jokes that were even about marginalized *white* people. They literally policed us like the racism police. I distinctly remember getting in deep trouble for telling a Polish joke when I was about 8 years old — those are *white* people. We couldn’t imagine saying something about blacks.

    But my parents were love-children of the 70’s. Make love, chill out, equality, civil rights. They hated the Vietnam war. They hated the maltreatment of blacks. The culture that my generation grew up in was nothing like you imagine and insist that it is. And for you to insist all those zany things about me is flat bizarre and it betrays not the insecurity of your own race, but the insecurity of Herneith. My own mother would be utterly offended and crushed, because that is the very thing she was so against. I really, really do not think that US minorities understand exactly how anti-racist many white people are. Of course, you still have idiot white people who are racist. But there is a huge percentage of the US population of whites who are determined to continually move away from all that.

    King:
    I suppose that the picture really brought home to me the danger of not *clarifying* the nature of an image. Images are powerful. They have been used in history as weapons against groups tagged for vilification. As I have felt “tagged” for vilification a few different times simply because I was with an asian women, I know how it feels to be a “picture of disgust” to certain racist asians. The way that Leigh204 simply threw it out there without clarification or qualification was dangerous.

    As I mentioned before, she made no effort to qualify anything. She *still* hasn’t qualified anything, but that’s probably because she doesn’t understand what I’m talking about (LOL). But she basically said, “hey look at the ugly fat white guy with the asian woman who looks miserable” and then simply stopped. The implication is this: when you see something similar to this image (IE: WM/AF pairings) the white guy is a loser and the Asian woman is miserable. That is the direct implication. And it has to be clarified. Again, what if it was a picture of a black man and a white woman? Are we allowed to make assumptions like she did? Of course we are not. The very definition of racism is to make sweeping generalizations of whole swaths of humanity — but WITHOUT qualification. That is: all black men are violent, or all Jews are dishonest, or all latinos are gang bangers… etc. The implication with Leigh204’s picture is that ALL white men are losers who happen to be with an asian woman. But that is not true. All white men with Asian women are *not* losers. And the women are *not* all miserable. No mention of that, however. And though the distinction might seem small, it is actually the very seed of larger and more disturbing forms of racial vilification and marginalization that can be discerned in terrible racist movements in the past.

    Which brings me to this: unhealthy obsessions are of course real. But it must be made very clear that these are the extreme minority. I could make that “obsession” accusation about all kinds of different attractions – what about a latino man who is attracted to blondes? I know a Korean American guy who is very, very into blonde-hair and blue eyes. Do I think he has a “white girl fetish?” No. Should I? I could just as easily say he has “white fetish” in the way Asians accuse white men of having “asian fetish.” But the guy is just attracted to blonde hair and blue eyes. Who gives a care? But if a white guy says he is attracted to Asian women, then — many times — he has some bizarre “fetish.”

    Yikes. I just think it is creepy how the white male / asian female combination is simply plucked from the infinite range of possible combinations of attraction and *singled-out* as an unhealthy obsession. What about when Asian men like white women? What about when white women like latino men? what about when Indian men like black women or Jewish women? What about when white men like scandinavian women?

    And then, of course, what about when Asian women like white men? It can get pretty creepy and ugly in the Asian community at this point. Asian women are — sometimes, not always of course — estranged and ostrasized and vilified as whores (yes – whores – particularly with some Koreans) as their AM counterparts are dehumanized and degraded as evil white men coming to dominate them because we just cannot live unless we oppress other human beings. White men are oppressive robots who are incapable of loving another human female – particularly non-white females. Love? Hardly – white men are robots who can only oppress.

    Or so the mythology goes…

    Like


  244. Correction on the last paragraph:

    “…as their WM [white male] counterparts are dehumanized and degraded as evil white men coming to dominate them because we just cannot live unless we oppress other human beings.”

    Like


  245. Oh, Hugh-y boy:

    Leigh204:
    LOLOL… I just *love* how you never say *anything* of substance. It’s sooo hilarious and entertaining. And then you *insist* that I have this “fetish” that is attached to your bizarre mythology that I am obsessed with you. I have to thank you, Leigh204, because I’m just so entertained each time you post! Please, please keep ‘em comin’… and can you add more smilies next time?? lol.

    LOLOLOL! Again, Hugh is back to enthrall us with his pointless ramblings. And please, you are obsessed with me. I’m flattered, but I’m just not interested. Sorry, your obsession is entering creepy territory. However, I’m glad you’re entertained. How else am I going to get your shorts in a knot? Whatever excites you, I suppose. 😉 And I’d be more than happy to oblige with the smilies. 😀 😀 😀 You like that? Ooh, I have more. 😀 😀 😀 😀 Oh, and another one for good measure. 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀

    Like


  246. @ Hugh

    While I can’t believe that you’re still here denying that “water is wet”. This in particular stood out to me…

    their WM [white male] counterparts are dehumanized and degraded as evil white men coming to dominate them because we just cannot live unless we oppress other human beings. White men are oppressive robots who are incapable of loving another human female – particularly non-white females. Love? Hardly – white men are robots who can only oppress.

    Were you trying to be ironic here?

    Like


  247. It’s almost like white men are complete gross animals meant to be trampled like garbage.

    Only the ones into S&M will be trampled, for a fee of course.

    When white men speak out that it is painful, we are to be trampled down again, because for me to speak about this dehumanization of me as a human being, is — to you — racist.

    Not only that, it’s funny!

    Me trying to defend myself from silly mythologies that I am obsessed with a certain group of women is — racist.

    Hugh you can obsess on anything you want! I for example, am obsessed with handbags, Belgian chocolate, and clothes. I couldn’t give a rat’s arse as to what people think. I am certainly not going to go to a blog or any other medium to defend or explain my tastes. Any good sales on handbags up where you’re at?

    I am the other. The beast. THE WHITE RACIST…

    Is your special number 666? Is your real name Beelzebub?

    I have no capacity to be hurt or dehumanized.

    For the right fee I will help you build up such a capacity!

    And for you to insist all those zany things about me is flat bizarre and it betrays not the insecurity of your own race, but the insecurity of Herneith.

    Crack out the violins!

    Were you trying to be ironic here?

    For his sake I hope so!

    Like


  248. mages are powerful. They have been used in history as weapons against groups tagged for vilification… The way that Leigh204 simply threw it out there without clarification or qualification was dangerous.

    As I mentioned before, she made no effort to qualify anything. She *still* hasn’t qualified anything… she basically said, “hey look at the ugly fat white guy with the asian woman who looks miserable” and then simply stopped. The implication is this: when you see something similar to this image (IE: WM/AF pairings) the white guy is a loser and the Asian woman is miserable. That is the direct implication.”

    So, your argument is that whenever someone sites an image as an example of what is being talked about on a thread, then that person is also obliged to qualify the image? The person posting the pic should basically stop and explain to the board exactly who that image is meant to typify, and how it ties in to the subject at hand.

    This is what you think was implied:

    “When you see something similar to this image (IE: WM/AF pairings) the white guy is a loser and the Asian woman is miserable.”

    But this understanding of Leigh’s implication is at least equally valid:

    This is an example of a WM/AF pairing that typifies the FETISH aspects of the WM/AF relationships that is the subject of this thread.”

    It doesn’t really have to say anything about normal, non-fetish WM/AF relationships, now does it? That is something that you yourself are bringing to table.

    Like


  249. King:
    You’re making my point. What needed to be said in the first place was this:

    “This picture doesn’t really have to say anything about normal, non-fetish WM/AF relationships.”

    If you can show me where that was said, then I have no problem. And if you do not think it is important, then you have never been vilified – along with the Asian woman you are dating – to the point that you cannot take it anymore and you simply have to call it off. That has never happened with another race in my experience. Really. And this woman I was dating was utterly humiliated by some of her female and male asian friends who implied that I fetishized her.

    Look, you have the this odd-ball Leigh204 actually claiming in the post above that I’m obsessed with her. (uhu – LOL) One would like to think that she is joking, but unfortunately no. There are odd Asian women like her that *actually* think this kind of thing about white men in particular. It’s bizarre and creepy and completely self-delusional. (Although I have to admit it’s hilarious)

    Of course, not all Asian women are like her.

    Peace,
    Hugh

    Like


  250. Hugh,

    Do some white guys say that stuff? I’m sure *some* do. But I have not heard them say it. I have heard Asian guys say that stuff. (and keep in mind I know plenty of asian guys who would definitely *not* say that stuff, also)

    I know I do not say it, because I think it’s silly. The Asian women I’ve known are all incredibly diverse; they are individuals who cannot be classed in specific ways. They are unique—each of them. And they all have the ability, as unique individuals, to decide who they are attracted to and who they are not attracted to.

    See, when you talk out of both sides of your mouth like this, it’s hard to take you seriously. (Well, that and other things.) Just because you have not personally heard or seen something being said, or done, or whatever, doesn’t mean it doesn’t *actually* happen, and frankly I’ll take the lived experience of actual Asian people and other POC than an anonymous commenter.

    But hey, that’s just me. Maybe all you need is your own TOTALLY OBJECTIVE AND NOT-RACIST mindset, some popcorn, and ample time to leave extremely long comments.

    That said, you do realize White men fetishize Asian women ALL THE TIME, right? I mean, you do know that’s actually a common thing that happens, right? I’m not saying it’s necessarily the majority of White guys who like Asian women, but it is a stereotype founded on some truth, and that truth is kinda obvious to everyone here… except you.

    But yes, blame it on me not having read the thread all the way through. Because apparently you’re also stalking me through the computer to check for this sort of thing? I’m flattered, but I think Leigh might get jealous if you stop stalking her to go for me =P

    Like


  251. Leigh204: LOL! More entertainment!! Hey, champ, you’ll be glad to know that a few of my friends are checking in now to also be entertained by the fact that you completely back up my arguments when you post stuff like this! And you don’t even know what I mean when I say that do you, champ!? So hilarious! So: I’m going to go make some more popcorn and wait for the next airhead post!! Have a good one…

    Ah, sorry, but in the real world, blow-up dolls don’t count as friends. As you say, “so hilarious!” 😀 It’s interesting the commenters here see something regarding Asian fetish that you don’t and it has clearly gone over your head. Anyway, try with all your might, Hugh, I’m simply not interested, buddy. 😉 Oh, btw, I made some freshly popped popcorn. Have some. It’s really good! 😀

    @ Zek J Evets:

    But yes, blame it on me not having read the thread all the way through. Because apparently you’re also stalking me through the computer to check for this sort of thing? I’m flattered, but I think Leigh might get jealous if you stop stalking her to go for me =P

    By all means, my friend, he’s all yours. :p

    Like


  252. King:

    But this understanding of Leigh’s implication is at least equally valid:

    “This is an example of a WM/AF pairing that typifies the FETISH aspects of the WM/AF relationships that is the subject of this thread.”

    What if Hugh wrote a guest post about “black fetish”, cited the white commenters here who pine exclusively for black women, then posted a picture of Zek and his girlfriend looking bored and unhappy at an airport with the justification of:

    “This is an example of a WM/BF pairing that typifies the FETISH aspects of the WM/BF relationships that is the subject of this thread.”

    Do you think that all of the loyal “anti-racist” faithful here would quietly take a pass on such a statement?

    Like


  253. Welcome back Randy.

    I understand your “all things being equal” reverse scenario, but unfortunately, all things are not equal. In other words, you can’t simply substitute the Asian fetish phenomenon for the Afro fetish phenomenon because, although they both deal with race and attraction, they occur within a vastly different social context, and are based upon nearly diametrically opposed racial stereotypes.

    Shall I explain further?

    Like


  254. Leigh204- LOL! Aaahh – now I’m using blow up dolls? LOL! You have your little racist stereotypes all lined up in a nice row here in the thread! The ditzy entertainment continues, along with continued proof for my argument that you are self-obsessed — and convinced I am “interested” in you?? UHU. Yep. CREEEPY!! LOL. Par on course for Asian women like you, there buddy. But PLEASE dont stop posting.. it just gets better all the time, champ!!! LOL.

    Have a good one,
    Hugh

    Like


  255. Hi King,

    If you would indulge my curiosity, I would appreciate a further explanation.

    I’ve always thought the concept of “asian fetish” was rather silly on 2 levels:

    1. It attempts to syndromize rather common male sexual behavior (i.e. expressing a strong preference for one or more of an innumerable number female characteristics or features).

    2. Such classification appears subjective and capriciously applied. You rarely hear of “Afro fetish” and the like.

    Like


  256. @ Randy

    Certainly. I will continue my explanation, but you brought up 2 secondary points that I’d like to address first.

    I think where we get into trouble, on both sides of this debate, is with generalization. Let me be clear in saying that not every WM/AF relationship is fetish driven, neither is this the overall claim.

    A guy can even “get into Asian girls” after having some form of positive exposure. He may hold stereotypical views, and cultural misunderstandings, but the difference is that in time the fantasy aspects of his attraction are self-correcting. In time, the novelty wears off and the “phase” is over. That doesn’t mean that he will never date another Asian girl again, it just means that the racial infatuation has subsided. This happens all the time in many new circumstances. I wouldn’t consider that to be representative of the syndrome.

    But there is normal infatuation and there is also the Fetish/Syndrome and both exist.

    Like


  257. Ahhh. The people getting a bit wound up here are the ones taking issue with this Asian fetish thing. Again, If it doesn’t pertain to you, why are you bothered by it? For some, it seems this post obviously hits close to home.

    Like


  258. Zek,
    Look. You commented on my post hoping to bop in and out and sound really cool and clever. You actually sounded stupid because you had not read the thread. That’s your fault, Zek, not mine.

    And I just love this: “But yes, blame it on me not having read the thread all the way through.” YUP. I did. You are fully responsible for your misinformed post.

    “Because apparently you’re also stalking me through the computer to check for this sort of thing? I’m flattered, but I think Leigh might get jealous if you stop stalking her to go for me.”

    Ok, let me get this straight. I do my homework, write thoughtful and careful posts (because this subject is important to me) and I am “stalking you through the computer to check for this sort of thing?” LOL. Are you stoned? Do you actually think I have any knowledge of you other than your goofy post above?? LMAO.

    And, Zek, I have mentioned this a couple time already, but of course, you have not read the thread carefully, so you would not know. There are obsessive attractions of every stripe. Of course white men can have an obsession for Asian women. These kinds of obsession are in the small minority. As such, Asian women can have obsessive attractions for white men, which I’ve experienced. This is in the small minority as well. My point is that some Asians have somehow plucked out the pairing of “WM/AF” as being somehow *different* than any other kind of relational structure, singling it out for intense scrutiny, with particular venom for white men.

    The truth is that one can be obsessed with another human being across any number of cross-cultural pathways. But the question is this: who has the right in another couple’s relationship to determine where the line is between obsession/fetish and simple attraction? What are the differences and how do you know the difference if you are not in the relationship?

    Like


  259. King and Randy:

    I think you are bringing up two good points here that I was trying to address with my last post: generalization and determination.

    Generalization:
    My point has been all along that it is dangerous to generalize. As Randy says, there is this tendency to “syndromize” what is almost always just normal attraction. If a white man is interested in an Asian woman, or goes to Asia to work, or is interested in the shaolin monks, he is immediately singled out as one with a “fetish.” This is dangerous. Sometimes men are attracted to women in different ways. Doesn’t mean there is a fetish.

    But that is also what Leigh204’s picture does – it “syndromizes” and generalizes based on one glance. There are many, many high quality cross-cultural relationships. Many are WM/AF. To not aggressively make this clear with respect to the extreme minority when it is based on some sort of obsession is dangerous, and ends up in people being really hurt.

    Determination:
    How do we determine the difference between obsession/fetish and simple attraction? Or strong attraction? Why do some people feel that they are entitled to be judge, jury, and executioner when it comes to this determination?

    As King says, “But there is normal infatuation and there is also the Fetish/Syndrome and both exist.” Agreed. I would say even further that there is normal *attraction that is strong* and that that is something COMPLETELY different than any fetish or weird obsession.

    We must make the distinction.

    Like


  260. @ Randy

    You can look at Asian Fetish strictly on an individual basis (how it effects individuals) or you can consider it on a societal basis (it’s widespread social/political effects). It is the latter of these two views that most activists are primarily concerned with.

    If you consider the phenomenon on a social scale then you must consider things like:

    1) How prevalent is the issue in the society in question?
    2) How damaging or beneficial are the effects on a society-wide basis?
    3) How broadly is it being propagandized in the larger society?
    4) How organized and advanced are its support structures?
    5) How politicized is it?

    If you look at Asian Fetish and Afro Fetish and ask these same questions of both phenomenon, you will come up with very different answers. That, in a nutshell, is why they are not interchangeable scenarios.

    What I have tried to do here is to refrain from repeating a lot of stuff that you all already know, and keep the answer short. The key to what I’m saying is that it’s not a question of wether Hugh or Hannu’s feelings are close to the same, it’s how those feelings fit and interact within the larger socio/political construct that makes them different.

    If that doesn’t suffice, then we can go the long-winded route.

    Like


  261. “But that is also what Leigh204′s picture does – it “syndromizes” and generalizes based on one glance.”

    Hugh, this is you own interpretation of the meaning Leigh’s photo. You seem to be saying that NO negative images should ever be shared on this topic— at least without being followed by several paragraphs of qualifiers and disclaimers.

    As a White male, you are a member of the most privileged group in all of society, I don’t think that one posted photograph without even a caption that applied it to ALL White males, is going to be a terrible image problem for you.

    Like


  262. King,

    I think you raised some excellent questions. Given the tendency for such matters to become politicized, how might one go about objectively determining the extent to which your 5 points may apply?

    I’d submit that these matters appear to be self-propagating once achieving a certain level of societal recognition, and then subsequently live their lives as a social meme fed by confirmation bias.

    Like


  263. Do you think that all of the loyal “anti-racist” faithful here would quietly take a pass on such a statement?

    I for one will. Besides, I am waiting for my pizza wings, a much more exciting prospect.

    1. It attempts to syndromize rather common male sexual behavior (i.e. expressing a strong preference for one or more of an innumerable number female characteristics or features).

    I agree with you to a certain extent here Randy, but let me flip the script and give you my point of view as a female. There are indeed randon physical characteristics I like on a man. 1) he has to be alive and breathing. 2) doesn’t suffer from halitosis. 3) Has buttocks you can carry at tray on. 4) Muscular arms and legs! He’ll need them to carry my shopping packages 5) A substantial paycheque. Randy, the list is endless!

    Again, If it doesn’t pertain to you, why are you bothered by it?

    That’s the million dollar question isn’t it? Why indeed? It is probably a case of ‘you doth protest to much’! People discussing Asian fetishism ain’t going to put a dent in the overall image of white men, who as King so rightfully says are they are most priviledged in society.

    If that doesn’t suffice, then we can go the long-winded route.

    Think nothing of it King, you would be in good company! At least you actually make good points.

    Like


  264. Hugh,

    The truth is that one can be obsessed with another human being across any number of cross-cultural pathways. But the question is this: who has the right in another couple’s relationship to determine where the line is between obsession/fetish and simple attraction? What are the differences and how do you know the difference if you are not in the relationship?

    I think your questions are quite important, but again, they don’t seem to match up with your assertions.

    Me trying to show that there is very little difference between dehumanization of human beings across all racial lines using similar patterns in history is — racist.

    Yes, it is when you take into account that White people in general, especially in America, face very litttle actual racism, let alone structural racism.

    My point is that Asian women many times are obsessed with themselves to the point that they think they are the most attractive race among women. LOL.

    So, you’re okay with making hasty generalizations about Asian women based on your limited experience, but god forbid anyone does the same with regard to White men, who by and large commit far more acts of direct & indirect oppression in our society than their POC counterparts?? And furthermore, are you then okay with condemning them for doing so while you complain that When white men speak out that it is painful, we are to be trampled down again.

    I’m sorry, but hypocrites do not make good arguments. And that was just in five minutes. So try again? Or better yet, just admit you were wrong and try to learn something =/

    Like


  265. Zek:

    I have not made any “hasty generalizations.” And I am a hypocrite? You continue to drop in at the end here without reading all of my posts. Did you miss the part – right in your requote! – about “many times” Zek? That means that I am *de-generalizing* and *not* stereotyping. Get it? Let me explain it for you. If I had said “Asian women are obsessed with themselves…” then you would have had an argument. My intentional wording is an indication that I do not in any way think that all Asian women are like that. I have said this very thing so many times. You have either STILL not read the thread–or you are just dull. I have never been on ANY stereotype bus at all. So that argument doesn’t work, Zek.

    And this general argument that white people are always privileged and therefore it is OK to dehumanize them is wrong. Let’s work together against lobsided privilege, yes. But wow — It is “racist” when I say I don’t want to be dehumanized?? Are we living in America? On the contrary, No, it is not wrong for me to protest. What is necessary is to make sure that I, myself, do not do it as a white man to another group. But dehumanization of other human beings is *always* wrong. And it just reifies the very racism that we are all fighting against.

    Like


  266. King:

    You said: “You seem to be saying that NO negative images should ever be shared on this topic— at least without being followed by several paragraphs of qualifiers and disclaimers.”

    Not “several paragraphs of disclaimers.” One clear sentence would be fine. And I disagree that this is not important. I think sloppiness in this area is what has historically led to terrible forms of racism. I tried to explain that. The problem of white privilege is something we all need to fight against together. But to use it as justification for white humiliation and dehumanization is just wrong. And that is what it feels like to me.

    Just sayin…

    Like


  267. Hugh,

    And it just reifies the very racism that we are all fighting against.

    Correction. That’s WE — and not you — are fighting against. You cannot say you are fighting against racism when you attempt to justify your own untenable views with regards to POC, fetishization, and other related topics.

    I mean, seriously dude, this act is quite pitiful since you seem so self-righteously upset about random people pointing out your problems, and are at least intelligent enough to write several paragraphs about why you’re upset at being so called-out on.

    Notice, you did not answer any of my questions, but instead devolved into — regrettably again — self-righteous statements that do nothing but further provide evidence by which we continue to call you out on your own hypocrisy. Which is why I say just admit you’re wrong, learn something, and keep it moving. Or just skip to the end — and keep it moving with the same ignorant mindset.

    Either way, the burden of this conversation is squarely upon you.

    Like


  268. @Bulanikgirl:

    That’s another one to add to my list of random characteristics on a man! Thanks! Here is another one to add; Must have most of his teeth, at least his front teeth! Perhaps Abagond should do a post about women who fetishize random physical characteristics on men!

    Like


  269. @ Randy

    I’d submit that these matters appear to be self-propagating once achieving a certain level of societal recognition, and then subsequently live their lives as a social meme fed by confirmation bias.”

    Yes, that is a very insightful observation, and one that I totally agree with.

    Given the tendency for such matters to become politicized, how might one go about objectively determining the extent to which your 5 points may apply?”

    I fear that there is no perfect process. But still, some things may work better than others. I can tell you why Asian Fetish jumps out at me particularly as an example of a legitimate syndrome. Perhaps the example will prove the better determinant of fact.

    – One of the most telling objective determinants for me is the are the interethnic cohabitation statistics of Asians as compared to other ethnicities.

    For charts linked below
    Yellow = Asian people

    Red = Native Americans
    
Brown = Hispanics
    
Black = Black people

    White = White people

    Here are the cohabitation rates of Asian men in the U.S.

    As opposed to Asian women in the U.S.

    Compare those figures to the cohabitation rates of Hispanic men in the U.S.

    and those of Hispanic women in the U.S.

    I do NOT suppose that the ONLY explanation of these figures is due to Asian Fetish, but I do observe that the percentages tend to comport to what you would expect if Asian Women (a very small minority in the U.S.) were dating White men at a much greater rate than is the norm for other minorities in the U.S. and also much higher than the marriage rate for AM/WW.

    This observation goes toward answering this question

    1) How prevalent is the issue in the society in question?

    In answer to how damaging this issue has been within the Asian community, I think one only has to look to so many of the Asian Activist organizations such as Hyphen, AAYLC, Thymos, and so many others. You could also look at the larger Asian American websites and discussion forums such as Model Minority, 8 Asians, You Insult Me, You Insult My Family (YIMYIMF).This particular subject has been a widely discussed as the PRIMARY rift and third rail within the Asian-American immigrant community.

    This goes toward answering this question

    2) How damaging or beneficial are the effects on a society-wide basis?

    Also, you could look at a recent increase in publications like these:

    http://www.tower.com/chinese-women-in-love-marriage-guide-happiness-dawn-xiao-yan-li-paperback/wapi/107144666

    http://www.amazon.com/Thailand-Fever-Chris-Pirazzi/dp/1887521488/ref=pd_sim_b_3

    http://www.amazon.com/How-Attract-Asian-Women-Ming/dp/0971580804

    http://books.google.com/books?id=dOOKEX-AElQC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

    Only showing a very few of the many now available, usually written by Asian women for “Western men.”

    Add also the many infamous videos posted in places like YouTube:

    http://thegrandnarrative.com/2007/10/27/why-asian-girls-go-for-white-guys/

    The mere volume of such videos (Much higher than for any other interracial combination) reflects, once again that the propaganda that has driven these race-based concepts of idealism and inadequacy has been widespread. This goes toward answering this question.

    3) How broadly is it being propagandized in the larger society?

    Another thing to consider are the many Asian sex touring sites that cater primarily (but not exclusively) to Europeans, Americans, and Australians.

    http://www.pleasuretours.com/

    http://www.sextour.com.au/china_sex_tour_vacation.htm

    http://www.travelsexguide.tv/

    BTW, I ASSUME THAT CLICKING INTO THESE SITES WILL PROBABLY LEAD YOU TO SOME QUESTIONABLE PLACES, SO BEWARE DOING SO.

    There are also man, many, dating/ mail order bride type sites. I’m too weary now to link them all in, but I assume that we can agree that they exist and are more prevalent than sites for women of other ethnicities (including Russian and Eastern European which would be closer to the western ideal).

    This all goes toward answering this question:

    4) How organized and advanced are its support structures?

    Now, a reply to a blog post is not a place to PROVE a point in absolute terms, so I have not tried to write a position paper here. I’m just giving a very few references to back up my points. Obviously, I could be much more thorough and put everybody to sleep (if I haven’t done so already)

    But my point is that the preponderance of evidence in each case leads me to believe that Asian Fetish is a special case and is therefore an observed and legitimate syndrome. For me, it clearly meets the tests of demonstrating society-wide ramifications. I would apply these same criterion to any other interethnic relationships grouping to find if they too met the prescribed parameters.

    *Thanks to Uncle Milton for providing the interracial statistics links upthread.

    Like


  270. @Asha

    Skipping lots of comments, yes, there are lots of men (especially European men), who do want to have a relationship with a bw.

    Like


  271. King,

    A+ post, would read again.

    First, some clarification: oxforddictionaries.com defines the term “fetish” as: a form of sexual desire in which gratification is linked to an abnormal degree to a particular object, item of clothing, part of the body, etc.

    In these discussions, the term “Asian Fetish” also appears to be carry elements of a social pathology based upon stereotypes.

    You’ve cited a disproportionate ratio of WM/AF couplings as a contributor to your diagnosis of A-F as legitimate syndrome. I’d disagree, based upon 2 points:

    1. Co-habitation / Marriage are advanced stages of relationships where one would expect that superficial stereotypes have long been dispelled.

    2. The oft-cited “Columbia Study” suggest that most women are biased against those from other races, except for Asian women who have a neutral attitude towards white men. Men on the other hand will generally board any welcoming boat.

    King:

    The mere volume of such videos (Much higher than for any other interracial combination) reflects, once again that the propaganda that has driven these race-based concepts of idealism and inadequacy has been widespread. This goes toward answering this question.

    I’d offer that the pervasiveness of the A-F meme contributes towards interest in puerile publications, while the self-help type books could be reasonably explained as being appropriate given the sheer quantity of such relationships.

    King:

    3) How broadly is it being propagandized in the larger society?

    Another thing to consider are the many Asian sex touring sites that cater primarily (but not exclusively) to Europeans, Americans, and Australians.

    You probably think such enticements are outsized because you’re unaware of just how pervasive such offerings are in China, Japan, and elsewhere in Asia. I dare say that the sensitive western eye might go agog at how similar tours are much more brazenly touted within Asia itself.

    King:

    There are also man, many, dating/ mail order bride type sites. I’m too weary now to link them all in, but I assume that we can agree that they exist and are more prevalent than sites for women of other ethnicities (including Russian and Eastern European which would be closer to the western ideal).

    I’d suggest that the mail order bride industry caters more to a cultural appeal than to a racial one. Also, there are a large number of similar sites for men who are interested in E. European and Latin American women.

    King:

    But my point is that the preponderance of evidence in each case leads me to believe that Asian Fetish is a special case and is therefore an observed and legitimate syndrome. For me, it clearly meets the tests of demonstrating society-wide ramifications.

    I’m glad you ended on this point, because I think it’s the most salient. Who exactly are the victims here, and how have they been damaged?

    In his post, Abagond wrote:

    Samhita at Feministing put it well, speaking for many Asian women:

    But for the rest of us, that are sick and tired of white men being into us because we are “exotic,” well this shit is just tired. I am not your fetish, I am not your fantasy and, yeah, I might be good in bed, but my race is not why.

    If ham-handed pickup attempts by men who are long on confidence but short on social graces comprises a “fetish”, then surely there’s hundreds of fetishes one could document. While surely annoying, such experiences as Samhita’s are prosaically normal.

    Like


  272. ATTENTION ASIAPHILES!!!
    Read below:
    I was once like yourself, but I cannot cure you. It takes a person training their own mind in order to change your preference.
    Instead, I will help you another way.
    Here is a list of tips on how to HIDE your asiaphilia from an asian woman you are attempting to court:
    1. Wear sunglasses.
    The main way asian women can tell a man is an asiaphile by the look in his eyes, and a person can tell a lot about a person just by looking in the other persons eyes (their mood, their attitude, etc.)
    2. Make sure you are hygienic.
    This is a given for in any situation with a woman. Asiaphiles as asians call you, and once called me, are identified by a certain disgusting thing about them. A lot of asians have made the observation that a lot of asiaphiles dont shower, and some dont shave, and some dont do either. Make sure you are shaven and showered in the mornings. Make sure to get those hair cuts every now and then.
    3. Work on your social skills.
    Social awkwardness can come off bad. In fact, it almost always does. Make sure you are not nervous when talking to one. Try not to stutter, or say “um” too much.
    4. Talk to her like any woman of your own race.
    Not all of them are foreighn, so dont try to talk to them in some random asian language. And dont speak slowly either.
    When attempting to make conversation, dont ask her where she is from, or about her culture, and dont talk endlessly about how great you think asian culture is. Talk to her like a woman of your own race.
    5. Dont be racist.
    This should be a given, but dont talk about asian steotypes, or make fun of asians, or say that asian men are inferior to her face. try to be racially sensitive.If you seem racist, then she may suspect you are an asiaphile.
    6. Respect her like any other woman of your own race.
    If you have nor respect for women, then I cant help you.

    Like


  273. I’ve been following this exchange for a while now, although I have not commented bc my scope of Asian & White attractions/relationships is limited. I also don’t understand the concept of “fetishizing”(I’m not even sure if that’s a word, but I’m like 80% sure I spelled it wrong if it is) the opposite gender of a race….

    I just wanted to say that I have noticed some commenters have accused Hugh of being a racist.

    I don’t understand why.

    I’ve seen many, many racist online and he doesn’t seem like one of them from what I have read from him so far. I would like to think I have developed the skill of discerning between racist and non-racist people online, whether they claim that title or not. For instance, idk if you guys know this, but it is extremely rare to see a white racist acknowledge institutional racism w/in the United States. Also, he has typed up several disclaimers and has applied qualifiers in order to avoid generalizing entire groups of people.

    So for those of you who believe High is racist. Why?

    Like


  274. You raise some good counterpoints:

    First, some clarification: oxforddictionaries.com defines the term “fetish” as: a form of sexual desire in which gratification is linked to an abnormal degree to a particular object, item of clothing, part of the body, etc.

    In these discussions, the term “Asian Fetish” also appears to be carry elements of a social pathology based upon stereotypes.”

    In our usage if the word it might be defined as: “A form of sexual desire in which gratification is linked to an abnormal degree to a particular objectification.” You see, the person themselves can be reduced to an object. That is, in part, the function of a stereotype.

    1. Co-habitation / Marriage are advanced stages of relationships where one would expect that superficial stereotypes have long been dispelled.

    But that is the very nature of an abnormal obsession, that it often does not end when one would expect, but instead becomes self-perpetuating. You are thinking in normative terms while discussing an abnormal behavior. I have observed that couples who engage in this mutual fetish often do take it all the way into marriage. Both partners feed off of one another’s mutual dysfunction, which usually includes an inflated sense of mutual superiority, coupled with a belief in the inferiority of the reverse-gender of their own race.

    The oft-cited “Columbia Study” suggest that most women are biased against those from other races, except for Asian women who have a neutral attitude towards white men.

    Yes, I believe that particular abnormal response is most often referred to as a racial fetish. It is not only some White men who have a fetish, but also some Asian women who have a White fetish, otherwise it wouldn’t work.

    “You probably think such enticements are outsized because you’re unaware of just how pervasive such offerings are in China, Japan, and elsewhere in Asia. I dare say that the sensitive western eye might go agog at how similar tours are much more brazenly touted within Asia itself.”

    I am aware of sex tourism within Asia (particularly with japanese businessmen ) but I just find it odd that there has been such a directed effort towards White Westerners in recent years. I also find it odd that although anybody with money could go (I suppose) that so many of the clients end up being White. It is not a smoking gun, but is a piece of the pie (to mix my metaphors horribly!).

    Like


  275. Zek:
    Here’s a warning: you are beginning to dig yourself an impressive little hole that is just going to get deeper and deeper. But it’s your funeral.

    You said:
    “That’s WE — and not you — are fighting against. You cannot say you are fighting against racism when you attempt to justify your own untenable views with regards to POC, fetishization, and other related topics.”

    This makes absolutely no sense at all. I have defended myself against your silly accusations that I am racist. I am not. And your claim that I do not fight against racism simply because I disagree with you is–of course–ridiculous.

    You said:
    “Notice, you did not answer any of my questions, but instead devolved into — regrettably again — self-righteous statements that do nothing but further provide evidence by which we continue to call you out on your own hypocrisy.”

    You are HILARIOUS. I Love it. I did not answer any of your questions, Zek? Again, are you stoned? You called me a *hypocrite* who was *stereotyping* all Asian women. I completely defended myself against your silly accusations, but it is YOU who ignored my defense and offere NO rebuttal, and simply defaulting back to your silly accusations that I am a hypocrite and a racist.

    Look–the only thing that is happening when you post, Zek, is that you just continue to dig your own hole deeper and deeper. Sorry, buddy.

    Like


  276. King:

    You are thinking in normative terms while discussing an abnormal behavior. I have observed that couples who engage in this mutual fetish often do take it all the way into marriage. Both partners feed off of one another’s mutual dysfunction, which usually includes an inflated sense of mutual superiority, coupled with a belief in the inferiority of the reverse-gender of their own race.

    How might one go about determining what fraction of IR couples are attached for fetishistic reasons? I can think of quite a few reasons for the high outmarriage rate of asian women in the US, not least of which is that non-asians comprise some 95.5% of the US population.

    As for sex tourism, just follow the money. Western countries tend to be the wealthiest, thus having the disposable income required for such activities.

    Like


  277. Hugh,

    This makes absolutely no sense at all. I have defended myself against your silly accusations that I am racist. I am not.

    Point to me where I said you are a racist. Go ahead, I’ll wait…

    That you do not agree with me, is again, not the issue either. The issue is your willful need to ignore what the majority of commenters here have pointed out for that with regards to WM/AW couples and the reasons behind the attraction.

    For the record, I don’t think you ARE a racist, but you are a hypocrite (for the purposes of this conversation) and you are acting very ignorant about this topic. And again, I find that pitiful. No matter how much you try to console yourself by telling me I am digging a “hole” or telling me how “hilarious” I am, you’ll still be acting hypocritical and ignorant until you can admit you were wrong, learn from it, and move on.

    You *could* start by answering the questions in my second to last comment:

    Me trying to show that there is very little difference between dehumanization of human beings across all racial lines using similar patterns in history is — racist.

    Yes, it is when you take into account that White people in general, especially in America, face very litttle actual racism, let alone structural racism.

    My point is that Asian women many times are obsessed with themselves to the point that they think they are the most attractive race among women. LOL.

    So, you’re okay with making hasty generalizations about Asian women based on your limited experience, but god forbid anyone does the same with regard to White men, who by and large commit far more acts of direct & indirect oppression in our society than their POC counterparts?? And furthermore, are you then okay with condemning them for doing so while you complain that, When white men speak out that it is painful, we are to be trampled down again.

    You don’t have to answer, but then again, I don’t expect you to. Because like I said, hypocrites don’t make good argument. Nor do the willfully ignorant.

    Like


  278. Sorry Abagond, this is formatted correctly:

    Who decides what is “fetishistic?”
    Randy raises the salient point: who becomes judge, jury and executioner concerning the nature of a cross-cultural relationship and what is — and is not — “fetishistic?” We cannot decide that a relationship is bad based on one picture or someone’s impression in passing. It leads to hurt and racism. Also, marriage stats cannot directly signify A-F. There are many other factors involved. And while I realize King is not speaking generally about all cross-cultural or WM-AF relationships (I hope), I think it is a bit disturbing to say this:

    “I have observed that couples who engage in this mutual fetish often do take it all the way into marriage. Both partners feed off of one another’s mutual dysfunction, which usually includes an inflated sense of mutual superiority, coupled with a belief in the inferiority of the reverse-gender of their own race.”

    That is a LONG list of possible false-impressions and stereotypical characterizations of AF-WM relationships based on “observation” that must be approached very, very carefully. Did you know you know these couples well? Did you ask them personally who they are and why they are involved with each other? How were you able to “observe” that they had said A-F? And then “mutual fetish,” feeding off one another’s mutual fetish”, “inflated sense of mutual superiority…” These are all very potentially dehumanizing and disturbing impressions of two human beings that cannot be made lightly. I have been in a situation when it was made lightly but with intent to break us apart. It was really terrible and hurtful — particularly as the Asian woman was rejected and alienated from friends and family simply because of my race. Some were even implying that she was slutty and insecure just because she was not with an Asian man. She was devastated.

    Are white males the main consumers of mail-order brides?
    Also: With regard to mail-order brides it seems there is huge interest in south asian brides from Asian men, particularly South Korean men. (see links). It is not accurate to frame that activity as “mostly” European. There is clearly huge Asian-to-Asian purchasing of brides for marriage. Therefore, it doesn’t really work to use the mail-order bride industry as evidence for A-F. Unless you want to include the fact that Asian men can “fetishize” asian women also. Then, yes, you might have a point.

    Here are some important links from credible publications that illustrate my point:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/23/world/asia/23iht-brides.html
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/mailorder-bride-killed-byhusband-2028705.html
    http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2010/03/22/2010032200462.html
    http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/asia-pacific/south-korea/110601/vietnam-integration-foreign-brides?page=0,0

    Like


  279. @ Randy

    “How might one go about determining what fraction of IR couples are attached for fetishistic reasons? I can think of quite a few reasons for the high outmarriage rate of asian women in the US, not least of which is that non-asians comprise some 95.5% of the US population”

    I suppose you’d have to do a very large double blind $tudy, and ask the right kind of questions. But for the layman, I’m not sure that the exact percentage matters so much, once you realize that it is a big enough percentage to be a big problem.

    The Asian Blogosphere is brimming with posts from Asian guys who are saying that they are approaching Asian girls, and being told that sorry, she doesn’t date Asian guys! Now THAT is dysfunctional, and you can no longer maintain that nobody is being hurt by it.

    Like


  280. @King:

    The Asian Blogosphere is brimming with posts from Asian guys who are saying that they are approaching Asian girls, and being told that sorry, she doesn’t date Asian guys! Now THAT is dysfunctional, and you can no longer maintain that nobody is being hurt by it.

    Amen. I have heard this time and time again from my male cousins. And once more, why is this certain fellow getting up in arms over something that’s not relevant to him? If you read this person’s much earlier posts, this Asian fetish was not started by white men, but Asian men…sure, not all, but many. *rolls eyes*

    Here’s what this fellow posted:

    The point of my post is to make it clear the silliness of your point about the creation of this “asian fetish” originating in 1960 with…LOL… white men! That is so ridiculous as to be laughable. Particularly when you all have been experts at subordinating and marginalizing women for millenia. As if you needed my help, or something… !! LOL.

    No. Asian fetish was _not_ created by white men in the 1960s, King. Sorry. LMAO!

    It has been around for a LONG time. And white men had absolutely nothing to do with its creation ultimately in time past.

    Like


  281. On that note….

    @Franklin:

    Franklin
    @Hugh

    More deflective white male lunacy. You predictably missed an important part. When Asian men did what you call “fetishizing” Asian women, it wasn’t on the basis of race. If it was, then every other gender specific aspect of all Asian custom that was different than Euro ones would be included in Asian Fetishizing. We intelligent people call those clusters of customs a “culture.” It wasn’t until self-serving white men perverted and warped these Asian customs on the basis of race that the Asian fetish came about. So don’t slap your own white connotations of perversion onto something that is different from yours, for the sake of justifying your own groups history of degenerative behavior.

    You are spot on! Bravo!

    Like


  282. Zek,

    You don’t expect me to answer? Wrong again.
    Here you go:

    Zek: “Correction. That’s WE — and not you — are fighting against. You cannot say you are fighting against racism when you attempt to justify your own untenable views with regards to POC, fetishization, and other related topics.”

    Well, what you say here is one hair away from saying that I am racist: saying that I am not fighting to work against it. Only you are fighting against racism, right Zek? I don’t think so. I have completely defended my views. You simply continue to demand that I stand down because I disagree with you.

    “The issue is your willful need to ignore what the majority of commenters here have pointed out for that with regards to WM/AW couples and the reasons behind the attraction.”

    I have ignored none of the posts, Zek. I have responded to all of them with input that was thoughtful and relevant.

    “but you are a hypocrite (for the purposes of this conversation) and you are acting very ignorant about this topic. And again, I find that pitiful.”

    LOL. Oh really? You find my standing by my opinions about this issue “pitiful?” You’re classic. Nope. Thanks, but I stand by my views. For the record, I think you are wrong. That does not make me a hypocrite, and I am not ignorant. Why do you think just typing those things will make it true?

    Now, as far as your comments here, I will directly respond.

    Hugh: “Me trying to show that there is very little difference between dehumanization of human beings across all racial lines using similar patterns in history is — racist.

    Zek: Yes, it is when you take into account that White people in general, especially in America, face very litttle actual racism, let alone structural racism.

    OK… So, by your logic, white men are required to shut up, bow our heads, and put up with humiliation and dehumanization because “white people face very little racism?” Huh? Do we live in America? How does the degree of racism that a certain group of people experiences give justification to ignore racist acts against them? How many racist acts against me are OK Zek? 55? 100? 345 acts? When does it actually become *wrong* to treat me like an animal? And when is it NOT racist for me to say “don’t treat me like an animal, please”?? Do you have a number for me? Further, how in the world is it, in turn, “racist” for me to speak out against this racism that was leveled at me by the Asian community? Your thinking is not logical. Racism is wrong–period. I will continue to stand up for all groups that experience it. And, as such, all groups are complicit in racist acts, albeit different kinds, and to different degrees. But racism is still racism is still racism.

    Like I said before, I work to fight racism, structural and/or institutional, but to say that I am racist for pointing out racism against me just because white men might experience it *less* than other groups is STILL not justification for racist dehumanization. My point has continued to be that this is a dangerous pattern in history when one group of people comes to the point where it is OK to dehumanize another.

    Hugh: My point is that Asian women many times are obsessed with themselves to the point that they think they are the most attractive race among women. LOL.

    Zek: So, you’re okay with making hasty generalizations about Asian women based on your limited experience, but god forbid anyone does the same with regard to White men, who by and large commit far more acts of direct & indirect oppression in our society than their POC counterparts?

    Wow… OK, for the THIRD TIME, I am STILL not making “hasty generalizations” about Asian women. Right there, in your own re-quote, is “many times”! Hello? That means I am NOT making a generalization. For the third time, I DO NOT think all Asian women are obsessed with themselves to the point that they project that self-fetish onto me. I have dated some who are perfectly balanced and healthy — really great people. But *some* Asian women are completely odd in this way.

    But even if I were generalizing (which I am not), you seem to excuse the same activity toward white men, who, according to you, “Commit far more acts of direct & indirect oppression in our society.” So, Zek, since you are a white man (at least according to your pic), of course it stands that you are busy committing these “direct and indirect acts of oppression” that you speak of all the time, and that you will be able to explain to me exactly what you mean by “acts of direct & indirect oppression” from your own personal experience. Because I grew up in a house where my mother punished us kids for anything even remotely racist or negative toward different groups– we got screamed at and hustled to our rooms for the rest of the day. To think of myself committing any act of oppression, toward any person, is foreign to think about.

    In the end, however, the answer is moot because nothing ever justifies racism of any kind. White people need to join with other groups to eradicate all forms of racism. I am part of that, whether you think I am or not. But I cannot accept the notion that I deserve to be treated like an animal, and, in turn, I am “racist” when I speak out against that treatment.

    Like


  283. Greetings, Leigh204, and thank you ahead of time for reminding me that I need to provide some clear examples of when Asian men fetishize Asian women. And also, thanks so much for posting some of my more salient points.

    So, here goes.

    First of all, I do not speak out against this for no reason. I was the victim of the dehumanizing moniker of being a “fetishist” as have been other non-Asian men I know (including some black friends, BTW). What is not “relevant” is the accusation–I fetishize nothing. But the Asian women I knew were hurt deeply by odd Asian women like yourself, Leigh204, who insist that it is morally wrong for an Asian woman to be attracted to only white men or black men just because your Asian male cousins are upset about it. How in the world is it any business of yours or your Asian male cousins who another autonomous, intelligent Asian woman is attracted to? Creepy and strange.

    So… Asian men do not develop “fetishes” for Asian women based on race? There is no such thing as same-race “fetishizing?” I don’t think so. I can show you direct quotes from credible sources that show Asian men declaring that they will buy a bride (sometimes twenty years younger) than them based entirely on superficial racial characteristics that they are intense about bringing back to the ranch. This is the same accusation sometimes leveled at non-Asian men when they date asian women: they are “fetishizing” the woman based on “superficial racial characteristics.”

    Concerning Korean men and their mail-order brides:

    SOURCE ONE:The New York Times. http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/23/world/asia/23iht-brides.html

    “Her husband, Bae Il Hwan, a 39-year-old divorcee with two children, said that in a Vietnamese woman he found attributes no longer evident in many Korean women: Confucian decorum and devotion to housekeeping and family…When Abon first met her 38-year-old South Korean husband in the Philippines in December, she said, she believed in love at first sight. But by May, she said, her husband had threatened her with a knife and “boxed me because of sex.”

    >>> These Korean men are clearly seeking something that — if it were a non-Asian doing it — would be labeled a “fetish.” These are truly creepy and serious examples of a weird “same-race fetish” among men in South Korea. Disclaimer: all South Korean men are NOT like this. My point is that some are, and that their behavior — if they were not Asian — would immediately be labled a “fetish.”

    SOURCE TWO: The Korea Times
    http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2009/10/211_53320.html

    “…The profile of Korean men who marry mail-order brides belong to the lower-middle class, in their late 30s or older, in need of housewives who will take care of them and their children from failed former marriages, or their old parents, according to the study….

    “…She said Korean men characterize Southeast Asian women, including those from the Philippines, as coming from poorer countries; as strangers to Korean culture and language, which will prevent them from running away; as people from a tropical and agricultural country who have good personalities; as docile and obedient; able to speak English; and as familiar with Korean patriarchal culture.

    “Kim said Filipino-Korean couples who met through matchmaking agencies and religious organizations are the biggest in number and the center of public attention in relation to human rights and multiculturalism issues.”

    >>>
    In both of these examples said South Korean men are using the *very criteria* for the selection of these south Asian women that others would claim is “fetishistic behavior” for non-Asian men. But if you insist that white men are “fetishistic” in this way (although I have never heard non-Asian men say these kinds of things) you are obligated to say that these Korean men are also “fetishistic.”

    Question: are these Korean men valuing these south Asian women as unique, individual human beings that they value, or “fetishizing” them as objects that they will possess and use? One thing is clear: if it is a “fetish” for non-Asian men, it is also a “fetish” for Asian men.

    The other side of the coin here is this: some of these Asian-Asian marriages work out well. Some of these Korean men love their mail-order brides and take care of them. It is mutual. So even as we must be very careful about qualifying WM-AF relationships in racist ways, we must also be careful to not qualify AM-AF relationships the same way. Every couple is different, and we must be careful to never over-generalize.

    Like


  284. Hugh,

    I’m glad you answered, because it shows you CAN be made to address the actual issue. However your answers seem to be lacking in… well, rationality. Let’s have a look, shall we?

    Well, what you say here is one hair away from saying that I am racist: saying that I am not fighting to work against it. Only you are fighting against racism, right Zek? I don’t think so. I have completely defended my views. You simply continue to demand that I stand down because I disagree with you.

    Again, unless you can point to where I actually say you are racist, then all you are ACTUALLY doing is making assumptions about what I think, or about what my words might mean. Stop projecting your insecurities or transferring previous conversations you’ve had on to this specific conversation. And please, for the love of Geebus P Cryst stop acting like everyone else in this country and freak out when someone tells you you’re not understanding an very important point. Instead try listening. Whether you agree or not doesn’t make a difference, but unless you are really dense then you’d notice the evidence is stacked against you in this argument.

    Again, that you cannot admit to this is the problem, that you cannot seem to even consider that you may be missing something to which nearly everyone else here as made abundantly clear is a testament to your inability to admit, even slightly that you have no idea what you’re talking about. And it’s sad.

    OK… So, by your logic, white men are required to shut up, bow our heads, and put up with humiliation and dehumanization because “white people face very little racism?”

    Nope. Didn’t say that. You’re putting words in people’s mouths…

    Huh? Do we live in America? How does the degree of racism that a certain group of people experiences give justification to ignore racist acts against them? How many racist acts against me are OK Zek? 55? 100? 345 acts? When does it actually become *wrong* to treat me like an animal? And when is it NOT racist for me to say “don’t treat me like an animal, please”??

    HAHAHA, oh Hugh… Please point out for me the moment ANYONE here treated you like an animal. Point out to me a moment when anyone in the world treated you like an animal. Shoot, you could even make one up! (This is the internet, after all.)

    Actually, just sit down and stop getting self-righteous. You’re not a victim, so stop trying to make yourself out to be one.

    But I digress, you classically missed the point! The point is that WHITE PEOPLE in general, face very little actual racism. Do you disagree? Or do you think White people face as much racism as Black people, Hispanic people, or Asian people have faced? Do you think White people face as much racism as POC do in this counry? I mean, unless you are COMPLETELY ignorant of our history, you’d have to conclude that racism against White people is pretty rare in comparison to racism against POC.

    Further, how in the world is it, in turn, “racist” for me to speak out against this racism that was leveled at me by the Asian community? Your thinking is not logical. Racism is wrong–period. I will continue to stand up for all groups that experience it. And, as such, all groups are complicit in racist acts, albeit different kinds, and to different degrees. But racism is still racism is still racism.

    Except for you Hugh, it appears that racism to you is taking White people — in this case White men — to task for their fetishization of Asian women! This is fundamental, because if any criticism of racism by White people is going to be seen by you as “racism” against Whites, then frankly you don’t understand racism, or how to fight it, certainly not in this country. So, no, racism is not “still racism” because you apparently don’t understand that fighting racism is not the same thing as racism.

    And, again, stop trying to say I called you a racist. I haven’t… yet =P

    Wow… OK, for the THIRD TIME, I am STILL not making “hasty generalizations” about Asian women.

    Hugh, reread your quote. You said “Asian women”, as in the group in general. There was no qualifier.

    I have dated some who are perfectly balanced and healthy — really great people. But *some* Asian women are completely odd in this way.

    This qualifier however comes off in the same vein as when people say, “Black people are so ghetto, but I know a few who are okay.” Are you truly ignorant of how you sound, right now?

    And yet, apparently you think you deserve to be treated like what you’re saying is not ignorant or hypocritical, or completely dismissive of the experience and evidence of the POC commenters in this forum? Like another Well-Intentioned White Person, you seem to flash your creds…

    I grew up in a house where my mother punished us kids for anything even remotely racist or negative toward different groups– we got screamed at and hustled to our rooms for the rest of the day. To think of myself committing any act of oppression, toward any person, is foreign to think about. … White people need to join with other groups to eradicate all forms of racism. I am part of that

    But then apparently cannot actually back that up with your words.

    I have been a victim of anti-Semitic bullying, prejudice, gotten my face pushed in by jackboots and my temple vandalized many times, but none of that has ANYTHING to do with what I may or may not say that is ignorant, hypocritical, or dismissive of POC. You can be well-intentioned, and still mess up. Yet only children will try to wrangle out of responsibility for their words and actions when they’re wrong.

    Which is why I’ve been admonishing you to stop, listen, learn, and grow up.

    And before you reply to comment, stop. Think for a second. Because if it’s another self-righteous rant about you being treated like an animal when you’re not — and you’re really not — or being a “victim” of racism against White people when you’re not — and again, you’re REALLY not — then frankly save yourself the keystrokes. I don’t care how against racism you say you are, or how hard you say you work to fight it, because it’s obvious that you don’t based on your behavior in this forum.

    That you cannot admit to such a small thing as fetishization of Asian women shows that you’re really quite useless when it comes to even bigger things like structural oppression via the Prison Industrial complex, the demonization of Black men, nativism and anti-immigration, or even anti-Semitic memes like “Jews control the banks/hollywood/the world!”

    (By the way, THAT is what I mean by acts of direct & indirect oppression. Because those are things that ACTUALLY happen on a wide scale. Unlike the things you’ve been getting self-righteous about.)

    But again, I digress. You’ll probably do exactly the opposite of what I advised. And I’m sure I can expect another rant in the comments section. Which is why I think you’re pitiful =/

    However, let me drop this last knowledge bomb on your bastion of hypocritical ignorance…

    http://repository.upenn.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1005&context=uhf_2006

    This is a decent paper by Maggie Chung, but what’s really important is the bibliography. Go read something =)

    Like


  285. King,

    Attempting to derive meaningful data from anecdotal sources like the “blogosphere” is a perilous undertaking. That being said, let’s examine your statement:

    The Asian Blogosphere is brimming with posts from Asian guys who are saying that they are approaching Asian girls, and being told that sorry, she doesn’t date Asian guys! Now THAT is dysfunctional, and you can no longer maintain that nobody is being hurt by it.

    If the phenomenon which you’re illustrating here were to indicate a pathological “fetish”, one would have to describe it as “White Fetish” by asian women rather than an “Asian Fetish” by white men.

    But is that even the case?

    I married an asian woman who had no interest in dating within her ethnicity. Her reason? Traditional asian cultures are heavily patriarchal, and women are often treated poorly. Husbands tend towards drinking and philandering without assisting in the domestic arena. White guys are viewed as favoring more equal relationships.

    As for the lonely hearts you’ve observed online, I’d suggest that a primary reason for this might be that asian men tend to be less socially and physically aggressive than non-asian men. This confers a significant disadvantage in the sexual marketplace, particularly in western cultures where such traits are prized.

    Like


  286. ^ And here it is folks…Exhibit A.

    Like


  287. Leigh204,

    Sorry, but what does “Exhibit A” refer to?

    Like


  288. I have tasted all the flavors including chocolate, vanilla and chunky monkey. Does liking chunky monkey best, for a whole slew of reasons, make me a fetishist? Or is it just a better fit for me?

    I can admit that there may be more attractive flavors like tutti frutti and rainbow sherbet or the even more exotic varieties of gelato from Latin America.

    But that chunky monkey is the best for me. Life is short and after tasting it all, you have to decide on one, and chunky monkey is what I prefer. Somehow they got it all right, chocolate, banana ice cream and almonds Hmm Hmm good.

    Like


  289. Attempting to derive meaningful data from anecdotal sources like the “blogosphere” is a perilous undertaking.”

    I disagree. There clearly are different levels of evidentiary certitude, but I’m not saying that what I’m presenting in these blog postings, are equal to a funded scientific study or to legal testimony. However, if I notice that the majority of Black newspapers are reporting a certain problem within the Black community, then I’m likely to believe that it probably exists (short of scientific proof that it does not.) In the same way, if I read Asian online newspapers, Asian online magazines, Asian online websites, and Asian blogs, and they are ALL siting the same problem: “The Interracial Gender Disparity,” then I’m likely to believe that it too probably exists.

    If the phenomenon which you’re illustrating here were to indicate a pathological “fetish”, one would have to describe it as “White Fetish” by asian women rather than an “Asian Fetish” by white men.”

    No, I would say that it’s a mutual fetish. However, White privilege tilts the perpetuation of the fetish more to White men than to Asian women.

    I married an asian woman who had no interest in dating within her ethnicity. Her reason? Traditional asian cultures are heavily patriarchal, and women are often treated poorly. Husbands tend towards drinking and philandering without assisting in the domestic arena. White guys are viewed as favoring more equal relationships.”

    Based on what? Certainly not base on the divorce rates that are 5 times higher in the U.S. than in China or Thailand? Do these Asian women actually know many Western men in order to make that comparison?

    If not, where do you think that they are they getting this idea from?

    Like


  290. Zek:

    Hey there, buddy. First of all, um, no thanks, but I do NOT admit that I am wrong. I love this line:

    “…then you’d notice the evidence is stacked against you in this argument.”

    LOL! It’s cute when you just type things on this blog that have no basis in reality. No – I have answered all arguments quite well. You’re the one who likes to type out things like, “Hugh, just please, PLEASE, admit that you are an ignorant hypocrite OK? =)”

    You are so classic…!! Love it.

    So let’s get this party started, shall we?

    Zek: … another self-righteous rant about you being treated like an animal when you’re not — and you’re really not — or being a “victim” of racism against White people when you’re not — and again, you’re REALLY not — then frankly save yourself the keystrokes. I don’t care how against racism you say you are, or how hard you say you work to fight it, because it’s obvious that you don’t based on your behavior in this forum.

    LOLOL! Ahhhhhh, thank you so much for clearing up all of these painful events in my life there buddy! What would I do without Zek to tell me what my past experiences *were* and what they *were not.* Excellent! You’re sort of like Dr. Phil on crack wearing a hoody standing against a grungy wall in an urban setting. Cool, Zek! What in the world would I do without Dr. Zek to clear all my issues up? LOL. I do just love how you insist that you know everything about what I went through. I love how you insist I was not treated the way it felt, and the way many others around me — even other Asians for God’s sake! — characterized it. Bold? Sure. Bizarre? Yup.

    I mean, I know so MANY Asians who will quickly and without reservation acknowledge Asian racism. They are ashamed of it. And I talk about it openly with them. I admit white forms of racism, they admit Asian forms of racism. We pull no punches. And it’s really, really good. I trust these guys. We can be honest with each other. Too bad Dr. Zek is to busy trying to sound cool by insisting exactly the opposite (in a really awkward and bizarre way) to actually engage the issue in the real world when we all – together – get real and admit our insecurities and weaknesses. I invite you to get out of the way of the healthy discussion/debate that is ongoing between some whites and some Asians, because you simply set everyone back 20 years when you deny racism against white people — even when Asians freely admit it!

    Here’s the facts (not that you concern yourself with them…LOL): It was painful, it was racist, it was hurtful what I experienced. The people in question literally demonize white men. Of course, not all Asians are like this. But some are. Just like some white people are racist, but not all. I made it clear above in the thread that you have not read YET that I in NO WAY equate my experience with that of other ethnic groups. I did say, however, that I believe that it leads to the same dangerous result: the dehumanization of human beings.

    Further, I made it clear above in the thread you have STILL not read that I am not denying that “fetishes” can exist across any number of cross-cultural boundaries, including WM-AF boundaries. Anyone can “fetishize” or become obsessive about another person for any number of reasons. But that is a rare extreme. My bone of contention is the sensationalization and isolation of only one variety of obsessive behavior: AM-AF. Sure it’s possible. But it not OK for some groups of people to name something “A-F” when it might be simple attraction, or strong attraction, or even very strong attraction. To cross the line and call it something like “obsession” or “fetish” is crossing a line that makes the white man and the asian woman into robots who have no autonomy of their own to decide what kind of person they are simply drawn to, attracted to, excited to be around. Further, it is dangerous when certain people make passing glances at a relationship and name it “A-F” when they have no personal relationship with the two in question. This leads to dehumanization.

    Ultimately, you have no right to tell me that what me and also some of my black friends experienced was false, invalid, or somehow not as important as someone else’s pain. And if you want me to show you the evidence of Asian racism against black people, then just say the word, buddy. It is definitely worse than what I experience. And my experience was really painful. You, Mr. Zek, do not sound mature, intelligent, nor are you pithy by trying to logically make an argument against the pain that I felt and also the Asian woman I dated felt. Me self-righteous? Nah – I am being honest. Big difference, champ.

    “Except for you Hugh, it appears that racism to you is taking White people — in this case White men — to task for their fetishization of Asian women!”

    LOL! Again, the classic self-destructing argument: It is racist to be against racism! Love your logic there that – AGAIN – excuses racist behavior against human beings. OH — right — you insist that racism does not exist in any form whatsoever against white men and that we are to shut up and be quiet when sometimes Asians treat us that way. Nah. Sorry. Racism is racism is racism. And it is ALWAYS wrong. And I am right about that. Sorry, champ.

    And I’m sure I can expect another rant in the comments section. Which is why I think you’re pitiful =/

    Me rant? And you don’t? LOL. Oh, and thanks for the schoolboy insult tacked on that I am “pitiful.” That really helps your argument. =/ (WTH?!)

    What I will undoubtedly do is defend my views, whether you frame defending myself as a “rant” or whatever. You can be sure of that.

    So, I await more semantic gymnastics from you demanding that you knew what I went through, how each person treated me, my friends, and the Asian woman I was dating, and that when we speak out against that kind of Asian racism, that me doing so is “racist.” I know – the Asians that acknowledge the reality of Asian racism against whites are completely *willfully* ignorant and dense. LOL. You’re the best, Zek. I await more of the same.

    Have a good one.

    Like


  291. King,

    In the same way, if I read Asian online newspapers, Asian online magazines, Asian online websites, and Asian blogs, and they are ALL siting the same problem: “The Interracial Gender Disparity,” then I’m likely to believe that it too probably exists.

    I’m afraid this discussion may be experiencing a bit of “mission creep”. I certainly agree that a gender disparity exists. However I’d suggest the causes don’t necessarily require a social pathology like “asian fetish”. Again, the Columbia Study seems to offer a plausible explanation: women are biased against men of other races except for asian women who are neutral towards white men.

    I think your second point raises the question of why asian women might be more welcoming towards white men than other ethnicities of women towards I-R relationships.

    King:

    Based on what? Certainly not base on the divorce rates that are 5 times higher in the U.S. than in China or Thailand? Do these Asian women actually know many Western men in order to make that comparison?

    If not, where do you think that they are they getting this idea from?

    I’d suggest that even cursory research on gender relations in most of Asia would quickly answer that question. By and large it’s a man’s world there. My wife observed this having lived in SE Asia for 25 years. Women are often treated as second-class citizens. Sons are favored over daughters. Most of her friends not only had philandering fathers, but many had well-known mistresses or even second families with little to no consequence. Domestic abuse is not uncommon. Husbands expect their whims to be catered to without reciprocity.

    Against this backdrop, is it surprising that so many asian women would seek western husbands when given the chance?

    Like


  292. @ Randy:
    I married an asian woman who had no interest in dating within her ethnicity. Her reason? Traditional asian cultures are heavily patriarchal, and women are often treated poorly. Husbands tend towards drinking and philandering without assisting in the domestic arena. White guys are viewed as favoring more equal relationships.

    Randy, I’m not sure if you’ve ever actually met an Asian man.

    Asian traditional culture IS patriarchal, but I don’t know if white men are truly such paragons of sensitive feminist virtue.

    In any case, the attitudes of Asian-American males (and other Western-raised Asians) towards equality in relationships are much closer to white Americans than to Asians in Asia. So for an Asian woman to shun these allegedly horrible oppressive Asian-American guys for white guys seems a little askew.

    I’m sure your wife has reasons for seeing Asian men the way she does, but I’m not sure it gels with overall reality.

    This is from a report I read recently about forced and servile marriages in Australia:

    “One study found that Filipina women in Australia between 20 and 39 were 6 times more likely to be victims of homicide than Australian women. In addition, available information indicated no perpetrator was Filipino, and all but one perpetrator were married to or intimately involved with the victim.”

    (Schloenhardt, Andrea. (23 October 2009) ‘ ’Mail-Order Brides’ in Australia’ Human Trafficking Working Group, The University of Queensland TC Beirne School of Law, http://www.law.uq.edu/humantrafficking, accessed on 9 February 2011.)

    Like


  293. Hi Eurasian Sensation,

    You’re half-Indonesian but actually grew up in Australia, right?

    ES:

    Randy, I’m not sure if you’ve ever actually met an Asian man.

    Lol. I’ve met quite a few, not only in the US, but overseas. I have spent many an enjoyable evening chit-chatting and drinking whiskey with my in-laws.

    ES:

    Asian traditional culture IS patriarchal, but I don’t know if white men are truly such paragons of sensitive feminist virtue.

    I didn’t say they were, but rather gender relations are much more equal in the West than back in Asia. I doubt you would deny this. Further, I doubt you would disagree about the state of affairs in SE Asia, that men expect to be catered to by their wives, philander frequently and for the most part with impunity, and face little consequence for domestic abuse.

    ES:

    In any case, the attitudes of Asian-American males (and other Western-raised Asians) towards equality in relationships are much closer to white Americans than to Asians in Asia. So for an Asian woman to shun these allegedly horrible oppressive Asian-American guys for white guys seems a little askew.

    I would agree, to an extent. Western-raised asian men tend to be closer in culture than their foreign born co-ethnics. However, many still have 1st generation immigrant parents who retain old-school customs. As the saying goes, you marry into a family not just a spouse.

    My wife has a large circle of emigrant friends and school chums, a number of which married within their nationality after coming to the US, and to their chagrin discovered that their western-raised husbands had eastern expectations. This is certainly not universal, but the enough of a pattern emerged for my wife to want to avoid the whole matter altogether. She’s not alone in that perspective.

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  294. @ Randy

    Again, the Columbia Study seems to offer a plausible explanation: women are biased against men of other races except for asian women who are neutral towards white men.”

    But you keep saying that as if it’s some kind of an explanation, instead of an unusual cultural anomaly that itself requires an explanation. I am familiar with the study results, but the question is WHY do Asian women make a special bias exemption for White men? We should at least ask if it is because:

    – White men are simply perceived as members of more wealthy and powerful cultures than Asian men (at least for now).

    – White men have the benefit of the worldwide White-favoring media machine which romanticizes White men and portrays them to be much better than they really are.

    – White men make no bones about actively pursuing Asian women within cultures that have more rigid rules of courting. As cultural outsiders, they are given latitude, were Asian men would not.

    And as Eurasian Sensation has correctly pointed out, in the West, Asian girls and boys grow up side by side with the same Western values set. Yet the West is where the interracial dating disparity is at it’s most pronounced. Newer immigrants from Asian nations are much more likely to marry an Asian or Asian-American man than are 2nd and 3rd generation Asian women. And when the reasons are give as to why, these women do not site abuse, alcoholism or philandering, but things like:

    – Asian men are too short
    – Asian men are too shy
    – Asian men aren’t masculine enough
    – Asian men don’t seem cool
    – Asian men aren’t romantic enough

    Why do you think that the longer that Asian women are exposed to the American culture, the more likely they are to hold these kind of biases against their own Asian-American men, while simultaneously holding a curious lack of bias toward White men?

    Like


  295. @ Randy:

    I agree with you on some things.

    gender relations are much more equal in the West than back in Asia. I doubt you would deny this.

    That’s true for the most part.

    face little consequence for domestic abuse.

    This is true, although the West is not much better at all, in the majority of incidents of domestic abuse.

    Further, I doubt you would disagree about the state of affairs in SE Asia, that men expect to be catered to by their wives,

    true so far (the West is about 40 years ahead of much of Asia in this regard)…

    philander frequently and for the most part with impunity…

    but this sounds like bullsh*t to me. I have no stats to back it up but it doesn’t ring true at all, and for you to imply that this is some kind of accepted cultural norm is way off base and a bit offensive tbh. Obviously some philandering goes on in every culture, and varies a bit according to country, culture and social status; perhaps your wife has seen lots of cases in which this happens and thus gets a distorted view. But overall, I would actually say that it is actually less common for Asian men to fool around outside marriage than Westerners.

    You’re half-Indonesian but actually grew up in Australia, right?
    That’s correct. On the general topic of this post, I have no problem at all with interracial marriage and indeed think it’s generally a good thing, but there’s a whole lot of negative power dynamics, stereotypes and fetishisation that CAN go along with it that needs to be stamped out.

    Like


  296. Eurasian Sensation,

    “philander frequently and for the most part with impunity…”

    I have no stats to back it up but it doesn’t ring true at all, and for you to imply that this is some kind of accepted cultural norm is way off base and a bit offensive tbh.

    Perhaps it sounds offensive to you simply because you hope it isn’t true. You seem like a very nice and charming fellow, but with all due respect, your perspective on this topic appears a bit naive.

    If you have the curiosity, you may wish to begin your journey by googling mia noi aka “minor wife”, a common practice in Thailand.

    A quarter of Thai men have more than one wife, according to a study by Thai doctors. “I would say that around 25 to 30 per cent of married Thai men maintain another wife, in another house” says Nongphanga Limsuwan, a doctor in the mental-health department at Bangkok’s Ramathibodi Hospital. So-called “minor wives” have been a feature of Thai society for centuries, with men maintaining long-term mistresses who get money, gifts and often their own houses.

    I can’t comment on majority Muslim nations such as Indonesia and Malaysia, but one could generally go country-by-country throughout the rest of Asia and very easily discover just how common that infidelity tends to be. This situation is less likely to lead to the dissolution of marriages than it does in the West due in part to the weaker status which women have in those countries, as well as greater cultural acceptance of such practices.

    In my own travels, nights out with businessmen often ended up at KTV, Gogo, and other sex-work establishments where the predominant clientele were locals.

    Like


  297. @King
    “- Asian men are too short
    – Asian men are too shy
    – Asian men aren’t masculine enough
    – Asian men don’t seem cool
    – Asian men aren’t romantic enough

    Why do you think that the longer that Asian women are exposed to the American culture, the more likely they are to hold these kind of biases against their own Asian-American men, while simultaneously holding a curious lack of bias toward White men?”

    Perhaps some Asian women have these biases bc these stereotypes are true for most, or at least a significant minority, of Asian-American men.

    Do you believe that is unlikely?

    It may not be politically correct to say that some stereotypes have a bit of validity to them, but considering the fact that I have had limited contact with Asians(despite the fact that there are a sh*tload of them at my university), I wouldn’t write off what these Asian women say as self-hatred, brainwashing, fetishes, or any of the other typical assumptions/speculations.

    Like


  298. Bottom line: stereotypes asserted for any group never pan out. I know some tall, outgoing, masculine, cool and romantic Asian guys. I also know some short, shy, feminine, uncool, un-romantic white and black men. Just because an Asian woman chooses a non-Asian hardly ever means that she is *rejecting* all Asian men and her heritage based on a set of stereotypes, like some Asians are wont to insist. Is it possible that some Asian women are trying to “get back” at her culture for some negative reason? Sure. But it’s rare. Here is what it almost always means: she is *choosing* what she wants as an individual, autonomous human being who has the right to decide how she will live her life. And she has every right to do so — at least in America. This does not mean she “becomes white.” It means she is Asian and she is perfectly capable of deciding what she wants while balancing that with her heritage.

    But the funny thing is that confident Asian men couldn’t care less who Asian women date. It’s the insecure Asian men that get upset about Asian women with non-Asian men. These confident Asian guys are very, very confident — but not cocky — in their Asian-ness in a way that is very attractive to women. Some of these guys are my friends — I know. One of them is married to a very attractive white woman and they just had a little baby. Further, they are not pissed off at white men or the Asian women who are attracted to non-Asian men. They could care less.

    They are the Asian Asian-male stereotype-busters. We all need to watch their back.

    Like


  299. I’m a white male originally from the PNW. I moved as I got tired of being the object of fetish by asian women. The giggling, sideways glances, wry smiles were becoming to much. You should hear the things they say to dehumanize me.

    I’m not your G.I. Joe. I’m not your favorite jonas brother. *sigh* I will not love you for a long time.

    Oh god, here come the tears……

    I’m promised myself I wouldn’t do this.

    Like


  300. Sorry for my grammatical errors. This is overwhelming to talk about.

    Like


  301. @ Randy:

    Randy

    Leigh204,

    Sorry, but what does “Exhibit A” refer to?

    I’m referring to the this:

    I married an asian woman who had no interest in dating within her ethnicity. Her reason? Traditional asian cultures are heavily patriarchal, and women are often treated poorly. Husbands tend towards drinking and philandering without assisting in the domestic arena. White guys are viewed as favoring more equal relationships.

    White men are bastions of gender egalitarianism? Right. I have heard similar reasonings not only from certain white guys in these “relationships”, but from some Asian women as well. I understand why some of the white males in this post are questioning the Asian fetish phenomenon. The Asian fetish is predominantly white male supremacy and Asian female subordination. I call it as I see it.

    @ES:

    Asian traditional culture IS patriarchal, but I don’t know if white men are truly such paragons of sensitive feminist virtue.

    You said it! Oh, indeed, the white man is the savior, the liberator of the poor Asian woman from her Asian male oppressor.

    Like


  302. And it’s funny how a certain individual says only insecure Asian men have a problem with it? Hmm. I’d say it’s white men with an Asian fetish who have a problem.

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  303. Hey Leigh204,

    I’m SO GLAD you chimed in again so that we could all be educated on Asian stereotypes of white men! Awesome. Saves time when you drop in and provide GRRREAT illustrations of the points I am making.

    I understand why some of the white males in this post are questioning the Asian fetish phenomenon. The Asian fetish is predominantly white male supremacy and Asian female subordination. I call it as I see it.

    Whoa, Leigh204! Wow. OMG. That is a highly nuanced and intelligent analysis there that of course has no root at all in any way whatsoever in your creepy desire to demonize all asian women who go out with white men and vice versa of course! I get it now: the reason that I am struggling through my past experiences with Asian racism is, well um, because according to you… I am the Great White Savior desperate to “save” all those frail, weak, stupid Asian women (who have absolutely no mind of their own of course) who chose me only because they like to subordinate themselves to the great White Hope.

    Seriously: It’s just really great when you post.
    Or, as you say “call it as you see it.” Lovely.

    Like


  304. King: You make insightful and relevant points regarding potential causes of the different outmarriage rates of asian men v. women. However, as the post is specifically about the social pathology of A-F, I’d ask if you think the overall outmarriage rate of asian women is unexpectedly high, or that maybe it only seems so when compared to the lower outmarriage rate of asian men.

    Bulanikgirl:: According to the CIA World Factbook, about 95% of Thais are Buddhist.

    leigh204:

    White men are bastions of gender egalitarianism? Right.

    You’re Filipino-Canadian, right? Do you visit the Phils. often or have significant contact with your family members there?

    Relative to the normative gender roles back in the Philippines, the normative gender roles in the west tend to be far more egalitarian.

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  305. @ certain individual:

    Ahh, once again, tell me where I have said I demonized “all asian women who go out with white men and vice versa of course!” Silly rabbit. Trix are for kids. You still are pretty clueless. Not once, ONCE, have I said I have anything against IRRs. I completely agree with Eurasian Sensation. As he stated earlier:

    On the general topic of this post, I have no problem at all with interracial marriage and indeed think it’s generally a good thing, but there’s a whole lot of negative power dynamics, stereotypes and fetishisation that CAN go along with it that needs to be stamped out.

    Now why is it you don’t get it? This post is about Asian fetish, Capiche? Time and again, I’ve told you I don’t know why you have a problem with it if it’s not relevant to you…unless…. And Zek J Evets, dude, he’s all yours

    Like


  306. @Randy:

    leigh204:

    You’re Filipino-Canadian, right? Do you visit the Phils. often or have significant contact with your family members there?

    I haven’t visited the Philippines in some time, but I chat with relatives pretty much every day. Since you asked me a question, I have one to ask you, You mentioned several times through abagond’s blog that your wife was originally from SE Asia. Where in SE Asia?

    Relative to the normative gender roles back in the Philippines, the normative gender roles in the west tend to be far more egalitarian.

    If the West tends to be far more egalitarian as you say, then why, I’m using the US as an example, you still don’t have a female president?

    •Bangladesh (Sheikh Hasina, former Prime Minister; Khaleda Zia, former Prime Minister)

    •Philippines (Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo, President; Corazon Aquino, former President)

    •Pakistan (Benazir Bhutto, former Prime Minister)

    •South Korea (Han Myeong-sook, former Prime Minister)

    •Sri Lanka (Chandrika Bandaranaike Kumaratunga, former President; Sirimavo Ratwatte Dias Bandaranaike, former Prime Minister. Sirimavo Ratwatte Dias Bandaranaike had served 2 past terms as Prime Minister and is the first woman in the world to hold the office of Prime Minister)

    •Thailand (Yingluck Shinawatra)

    •Indonesia (Megawati Sukarnoputri, former President)

    •India (Pratibha Patil, President, Indira Ghandi, former Prime Minister)

    •Turkey (Tansu Ciller, former Prime Minister)

    •Israel (Golda Meir, former Prime Minister)

    •Mongolia (Suhbaataryn Yanjmaa, former President)

    •Tuvinian People’s Republic (Khertek Amyrbitovna Anchimaa-Toka, former Chairperson of the Presidium)

    Like


  307. @ certain clueless individual:

    Oh, indeed, the white man is the savior, the liberator of the poor Asian woman from her Asian male oppressor.

    LOL! I guess things online don’t always translate well, but it’s something called sarcasm. Here’s a smiley I forgot to add. Happy now?

    Oh, indeed, the white man is the savior, the liberator of the poor Asian woman from her Asian male oppressor. 😛

    Like


  308. Oh – hey Leigh204, it’s that “certain clueless individual” here. LOL. And I like that: “Silly rabbit. Trix are for kids.” Um – is that an insult?? Although I must admit that being called a “silly rabbit” is a crushing blow to my self-worth.

    And whyyyy do you keep saying that A-F is “not relevant” to me? WOW. I have been ACCUSED of having it when I was in college a few years back. As a young guy it was really, really tough and confusing. My girlfriend was called a “sell-out” and a “banana-slut” and other assorted names (by a select group of Asians) for going out with me. Get it? That is why it is relevant to me.

    And if you are trying to be “sarcastic” about your impressive portfolio of stereotypes about white men who happen to date asian women sometimes, then you should have said that a LONG time ago, buddy. Are you back-tracking? Are you admitting that this is a stereotype that you have promoted? Because you sound dead-set to promote negative gossip about, and images of, white men and Asian women in relationships, and this is the first time you have qualified ANYTHING. Just scroll up to the picture you posted, then defended and promoted, scoffing about how fat he was, and then how miserable the Asian woman looked – and then you joked about it. And then you used that as “proof” that your odd ideas about A-F were perfectly valid.

    Ah. Lovely.

    How quickly you forget.

    But I guess people can change.

    Like


  309. @ certain clueless individual:

    Are you back-tracking? Are you admitting that this is a stereotype that you have promoted? Because you sound dead-set to promote negative gossip about, and images of, white men and Asian women in relationships.

    Sheer nonsense. I did no such thing. Posturing much? I posted an image I googled under Asian fetish and lo and behold. This white man who happened to be fat and an Asian woman who looked miserable showed up. Don’t place the blame on me because someone else took this pic and posted it online. This is what happens when an Asian fetish goes too far.

    Just scroll up to the picture you posted, then defended and promoted, scoffing about how fat he was, and then how miserable the Asian woman looked – and then you joked about it

    He WAS fat. And the Asian woman LOOKED miserable. So what? Get over it.
    Oh, here’s the pic that irks you so much.

    Like


  310. “Perhaps some Asian women have these biases bc these stereotypes are true for most, or at least a significant minority, of Asian-American men.

    Do you believe that is unlikely?

    Yes, I do,

    because it seems to be the EXACT opposite of the White stereotype of the drunken, boorish, overbearing, patriarchal, womanizing, arrogant, two-timing, native Asian male. Does he magically turn from frat boy to nerd while crossing the ocean? Or does one generation in America turn the tiger into an impotent pussycat?

    Like


  311. Leigh,

    Bleh, I’ve done my bit to help him see the obvious. But frankly, I don’t think he’d admit to it after all the bragging and shenanigans he’s put on here. Some people just push it too far to the point where they can’t back down, especially after they’ve been so publicly proved wrong.

    But I digress… People don’t agree with you unless they already agree with you, and nobody truly changes anyone’s mind. Especially not the minds of ignorant hypocrites with too much time on their hands =/

    Honestly, the best part is Randy however. Perfect example of how racism survives despite all experiences or evidence to the contrary. (Randy’s in an IR relationship, also from the Bay Area, so his experiences with diversity have only seemed to increase/justify his own subtle racism. And he’s demonstrated that here at Abagond’s MANY times before.)

    In the end, you can only give them (I mean ignorant people by and large) the chance, or the opportunity to rethink their position, to step outside of the little cognitive box they’ve shoved their insecurities and prejudices into and hope that they’ll understand — someday at least — that the world simply isn’t as simple as they want it to be, and that people really are just people: flawed, imperfect, often contradictory, and extremely dedicated to protecting themselves from anything that undermines the carefully built structures they’ve made around their egos, fragile as they are.

    But more importantly, for us to combat racism outside of the blogosphere, we need to confront it amongst ourselves. That includes me, and that definitely includes guys like Randy, and Hugh, who actually think of themselves as being against racism. The irony is so palatable, you could eat it with a fork and knife.

    Like


  312. Awesome post, Zek! Thank you for your comments. I appreciate it. Some people are remarkably obtuse and willfully obstinate. Ah, well, you can only do so much, right?

    But more importantly, for us to combat racism outside of the blogosphere, we need to confront it amongst ourselves. That includes me, and that definitely includes guys like Randy, and Hugh, who actually think of themselves as being against racism. The irony is so palatable, you could eat it with a fork and knife.

    Indeed. However, I’m Filipino. We use forks and spoons. (It’s an inside joke.) 😀

    Like


  313. @ Leigh

    Haha! how do you Filipinos cut your food that way! lol!

    Like


  314. That’s weird…. Why did my name just get changed to veritasvenustas?

    Latin isn’t it? truth and beauty… or something like that??

    Like


  315. leigh204:

    Since you asked me a question, I have one to ask you, You mentioned several times through abagond’s blog that your wife was originally from SE Asia. Where in SE Asia?

    Philippines.

    As for your list of Asian female leaders, those are certainly laudable accomplishments, however the reality on the ground seems to be that the average Asian woman still lives in a predominantly patriarchal and often chauvinistic society.

    Like


  316. @veritasvenustas:

    Gosh, I honestly don’t know. My mom and other native born Filipinos do. I use a knife and fork. Here’s a better explanation as to why Filipinos use forks and spoons.

    Like


  317. Hope this works:

    Like


  318. To Leigh204:

    The Asian fetish is predominantly white male supremacy and Asian female subordination.

    Heh…. I know multiple Asian guys who say that aggressive Asian women end up with White guys because no self respecting Asian man would marry them. (These are guys who born in Asia.. not the US..) Are these comments accurate? I can think of some examples where dominant Asian women have married submissive White guys but i’d say it’s probably another stereotype like yours.

    Like


  319. King:

    because it seems to be the EXACT opposite of the White stereotype of the drunken, boorish, overbearing, patriarchal, womanizing, arrogant, two-timing, native Asian male. Does he magically turn from frat boy to nerd while crossing the ocean? Or does one generation in America turn the tiger into an impotent pussycat?

    I think there are several factors in play.

    1. Immigrants are a self-selecting group who often have to face significant hurdles to emigrate. The “frat boy” types you refer to often don’t make it here.

    2. Immigrant families (of all origins) tend to be rather strict with their children in terms of driving them to succeed in their academic careers.

    3. The dating scene is different. In many parts of Asia, there is a large population of very poor young women who will seek relationships with men who can provide even modest amounts of support. Also, prostitution is more readily available.

    Like


  320. @ Leigh

    Ah! Chicken Adobe! Yum! Where is the Pansit video!!

    Like


  321. To Randy:

    As for your list of Asian female leaders, those are certainly laudable accomplishments, however the reality on the ground seems to be that the average Asian woman still lives in a predominantly patriarchal and often chauvinistic society.

    I am not sure how I would measure patriarchy or male chauvinism in the US vs East Asia but I doubt 16th century Britain (which had two female rulers in succession…) was more egalitarian than the present day US.

    Like


  322. @Uncle Milton:

    Aggressive Asian women? As in certain Asian women who doggedly pursue White guys? Some are like that. Besides, why are you saying no self-respecting Asian man would marry them? Why would ANY man want to be with a woman like that whether she was Asian or not?

    Like


  323. @Randy

    Philippines.

    The Philippines, you say? Interesting. Very interesting.

    As for your list of Asian female leaders, those are certainly laudable accomplishments, however the reality on the ground seems to be that the average Asian woman still lives in a predominantly patriarchal and often chauvinistic society.

    And so that begs to question: These average Asian women need liberation from this patriarchal and chauvinistic society?

    Like


  324. @ Randy

    ou make insightful and relevant points regarding potential causes of the different outmarriage rates of asian men v. women. However, as the post is specifically about the social pathology of A-F, I’d ask if you think the overall outmarriage rate of asian women is unexpectedly high, or that maybe it only seems so when compared to the lower outmarriage rate of asian men.”

    Thank you.

    But no, the Asian female outdating rate is not only high as compared to Asian males, but is also high when compared with females of ALL other ethnicities. Isn’t that similar to what the Columbia Study verifies?

    It seems that we have all of these factors that appear to point to the fact that there is a social and statistical anomaly at play here. Why not simply accept that such a thing is possible?

    The point isn’t that ALL AF/WM relationships are based on a fetish, in fact, unless you know any couple in question, you cannot assume that their motives for being together are questionable. However, on a macro basis, it seems very likely that the nexus of all of these things we’ve been discussing is an overarching mutual pathology between certain AFs and WMs.

    Like


  325. @King:

    “Perhaps some Asian women have these biases bc these stereotypes are true for most, or at least a significant minority, of Asian-American men.

    Do you believe that is unlikely?

    Yes, I do,

    because it seems to be the EXACT opposite of the White stereotype of the drunken, boorish, overbearing, patriarchal, womanizing, arrogant, two-timing, native Asian male. Does he magically turn from frat boy to nerd while crossing the ocean? Or does one generation in America turn the tiger into an impotent pussycat

    Exactly. It certainly boggles the mind that Asian men in America are considered weak, sexless geeks, but oh-how-it-changes to chauvinistic, philandering wife-beaters once you’re in Asia.

    @ Leigh

    Ah! Chicken Adobe! Yum! Where is the Pansit video!!

    In due time, King. In…due…time. 😀

    Like


  326. @King:

    It seems that we have all of these factors that appear to point to the fact that there is a social and statistical anomaly at play here. Why not simply accept that such a thing is possible?

    The point isn’t that ALL AF/WM relationships are based on a fetish, in fact, unless you know any couple in question, you cannot assume that their motives for being together are questionable. However, on a macro basis, it seems very likely that the nexus of all of these things we’ve been discussing is an overarching mutual pathology between certain AFs and WMs.

    Yup. I don’t know why certain individuals insist I was referring to all AF/WM. And I personally know some AFs (relatives/friends) with WMs and their relationships isn’t based on a fetish. But if see the ones with the Asian fetish, you can clearly see the difference.

    Like


  327. To Leigh204:

    Besides, why are you saying no self-respecting Asian man would marry them?

    I am repeating what some Asian guys I knew (Gen 1.5 eg not born in the US..) said, not what I said or believe.

    Aggressive Asian women? As in certain Asian women who doggedly pursue White guys? Some are like that.

    No.. aggressive as in type A personality, assertive…. gets her way, etc. Another term that may apply would be high maintenance.

    Why would ANY man want to be with a woman like that whether she was Asian or not?

    Why would any man want to be with a sexually aggressive woman…? Uummm…. well all I can say is..some do. The number of rational guys I know who have been with pycho (but they have to be good looking ..) women is too numerous to count. Sort of the male response to “good girls” being with “bad boys”.

    Like


  328. @King

    Besides Randy, I have nv heard of that “white” stereotype about native Asian males.

    Also, those two sets of Asian male stereotypes do not sound opposite to me. You don’t need to be a popular alphamale in order to be a chauvinistic pig.

    I’m pretty agnostic on the validity of those stereotypes, but I sill wouldn’t write them off. I mean out of all groups Asian American women spend the most time with Asian American men. You’d expect them to know Asian males the best…

    Like


  329. I’m pretty agnostic on the validity of those stereotypes, but I sill wouldn’t write them off.

    I agree, stereotypes have a basis in reality, but that reality is then distorted to account for an entire population, rather than a vocal minority.

    However, my hazardous guess as to why AW/WM couples are far more numerous than any other interracial pairing is not fetishization (though I’m certain it plays a part at the macro, subconscious level of attraction) but that White men see Asian women as “almost White” in the way that HBDers see Asian people as “almost White” — as in, they are a rough equivalent on the socio-hierarchical scale of civilization in our racist society’s mindset (based in part on their perceived status as the “model minority”) which makes these relationships more… palatable than other interracial pairings.

    But, as I said, this is a guess. A hunch. However my cousin who is dating an Asian man seems to believe that Asian men (but not her boyfriend) are far more interested in White women because — according to her — White women are “easier to get along with”, whatever that means.

    Which leads me conclude that in reality, it’s just the rare novelty of dating outside your race that leads people to construct these stereotypes about how all Asian women/White men/Asian men/Black women/Black men/Latinas/Latinos/whatever are like to date. If more people dated interracially, we’d probably see that every Just-So story about why This Race or That Race date each other is merely a way to explain the relatively rare occurrence of said interracial couple.

    Just my two cents. Spend ’em how you will.

    Like


  330. I believe the main thing that drives the so-called Asian fetish is not any sort of fetish, self-hated or even stereotyping, though that stuff no doubt goes on, but the simple fact that in America Asians are the least racially segregated of anyone. By far. It is not even close. Most whites, blacks and Latinos live in racial ghettos. Most Asian Americans do not. They mostly live in places that are mostly white. So there are just way more opportunities for Asians and whites to meet and date than any other interracial pairing. And since it seems to be women who apply race to dating the most, Asian female/white male pairings become the most common.

    Like


  331. Abagond,

    but the simple fact that in America Asians are the least racially segregated of anyone.

    I disagree. At least, I disagree in part. Here in San Francisco, Asians are quite segregated from the rest of the population. Whether you’re talking about Chinatown or The Sunset district, most Asians seem to congregate in their own neighborhoods, just like other groups. I think only in ‘burbs are they less segregated.

    Like


  332. @ Randy:

    A quarter of Thai men have more than one wife, according to a study by Thai doctors. “I would say that around 25 to 30 per cent of married Thai men maintain another wife, in another house”

    I have great trouble believing this figure is anywhere near close to accurate, primarily because it means that about 25-30% of Thai men are monopolizing 50-60% of Thai women – it seems logistically improbable and unsustainable. (Forgive my very rough calculations.) In addition, the sheer cost of maintaining a second wife seems prohibitive for most men in a fairly poor country.

    I could certainly accept that 25-30% of Thai men might have some kind of “bit on the side” here and there, and I would guess that mistresses/”minor wives” are far more prevalent for the wealthier classes, as it is in the West.

    And in any case, Thailand is not all of Asia, and it exists in its own bubble of odd sexual norms.

    The rates of infidelity among men in the West, incidentally, tend to get estimated at anywhere between 20% and 50%.

    In my own travels, nights out with businessmen often ended up at KTV, Gogo, and other sex-work establishments where the predominant clientele were locals.

    Well I’ve never been taken to these establishments in my many travels around Asia. I’m not saying that my experiences embody the entirety of Asian culture, but I don’t think yours do either. Saying “Asian businessmen often take me to seedy establishments” might say more about the sort of people you hang with than it does about Asian culture in general.

    Like


  333. ES,

    Such extra-marital relationships aren’t inherently permanent, so these women are not “monopolized” for any lengthy period of time. Also, the level of support need not be great. I’ve heard quite a few stories of men in the Philippines supporting their mistresses with just the rice portion of their work compensation package.

    Well I’ve never been taken to these establishments in my many travels around Asia. I’m not saying that my experiences embody the entirety of Asian culture, but I don’t think yours do either. Saying “Asian businessmen often take me to seedy establishments” might say more about the sort of people you hang with than it does about Asian culture in general.”

    My experiences are certainly anecdotal, and subject to the limitations of that type. However, they jibe with what you’ll read online about the subject.

    I’ve heard similar stories from a colleague who worked for a multinational in Tokyo, as well as from a friend who regularly visits Guangdong province in China to supervise his company’s contract manufacturing.

    Oddest related story: I once had my mother-in-law tell me that my father-in-law was disappointed at not being invited along to a “lad’s night out” which ended up at a gogo bar. Call me old fashioned, but that would have been just a bit too awkward.

    Like


  334. @Zek
    I agree, stereotypes have a basis in reality
    -Whoa! Not all of them. Many of them do have a basis in reality, but some of them come out of f*cking nowhere! The watermelon stereotype about black ppl is a great example of a completely unfounded stereotype.

    but that reality is then distorted to account for an entire population, rather than a vocal minority.
    -Yes, this is the real problem with stereotypes. Racist often over-exaggerate them. I believe this is why some people are tempted to believe or pretend as if none of them even exist.

    @Abagond & Zek
    Idk… it’s complicated. Asian females have the highest interracial/ethinic marriages, but Asian males are the second least likely POC(behind black women) to “marry out.” That gender gap somewhat complicates the issue.

    Some people will surely be inclined to fault Asian men, however, if you look at individual IR statistics btwn Asian guys & girls, you will notice AM are almost twice as likely to marry a Hispanic women than AW(who make up for that by being more likely to marry Blk & White men) are to marry a Hispanic man. Also, the AM & AW “other” marriage rate is roughly equal…

    All in all, Hispanic women, Hispanic men, and Black men all have higher inter-racial/ethnic marriage rates than Asian men, so I’m not too sure about the socio-hierarchical or ethnic enclave/proximity theories.

    http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1616/american-marriage-interracial-interethnic
    Check pg. 19
    http://pewsocialtrends.org/files/2010/10/755-marrying-out.pdf

    Like


  335. I believe the main thing that drives the so-called Asian fetish is not any sort of fetish, self-hated or even stereotyping, though that stuff no doubt goes on, but the simple fact that in America Asians are the least racially segregated of anyone.

    Abagond, but what you are saying does not take into account the interracial dating gender disparity. If Whites and Asians are just around each other a lot, then why don’t the numbers look the same for Asian men as they do for Asian women?

    Like


  336. “Also, those two sets of Asian male stereotypes do not sound opposite to me. You don’t need to be a popular alphamale in order to be a chauvinistic pig.”

    It is unlikely that an Asian guy is going to go from being a shy and socially inept wallflower, to a womanizing adulterer.

    Like


  337. Hi Abagond –
    Love your blog, new to posting. Sorry this is long.

    Have to disagree about the Asians being less segregated so numerically it would work out like that because 1. like King has mentioned – the gender disparity is just too high and 2. I live in LA which is arguably the most (East and Southeast) Asian city in the US and Asians live closely amongst Blacks, and especially Latinos as well as whites. So it would make sense that there are high numbers of couples featuring Black or Latino men with Asian women right? And while there are quite a few, NOTHING like the WM/AF numbers.

    Personal anecdote – I myself am a Korean-American woman born in NY, in my mid 30s. What Leigh204, King and Zek have mentioned is exactly my experience, but not till I lived on the West coast. White men randomly telling me how much they like Asian chicks, telling me they’re “into Japan” (I’m Korean douchebag), asking if my “thing is slanted” (kid you not) and otherwise gawking, following and basically making me to feel like they own me. I have been harassed, slapped, groped, threatened and told “you whores should go back where you came from” after turning down white males. (I have no interest in white males.) I in my entire life cannot think of one time where an Asian, Black, Latino or Indian man has ever disrespected me like that. It is common discussion not just amongst Asian women and men but also amongst white women who have seen it repeatedly. I used to live in San Francisco and it was easily the worst city I experienced this in out of the 5 I have lived in.

    Also a number of white men go out of their way to insult/denigrate Asian men. To me. An Asian woman. WTF. I noticed that a lot of white men who want Asian women do this. It disgusts me. Some of them bring up the age old (and untrue) size stereotype, which is ironic because 1. I’ve already been with Asian penises and 2. they seem obsessed with them. Or they play the white savior card and warn me about Asian men being possessive or chauvinist. Again, the irony.

    Now there are Asian women who tolerate this and date these white males. Or who actually just “don’t like Asian guys”. These women IMO are a disgrace. They have internalized white racism/self hate so badly they are willing to stereotype and throw Asian men under the bus. Google Natasha Yi’s husband from that radio show in SF.

    So for Hugh and Randy to blame Asian men for their own twisted logic is as someone said “more deflective white male lunacy”. Couldn’t have said it better.

    Like


  338. @Zek:

    “Bleh, I’ve done my bit to help him see the obvious. But frankly, I don’t think he’d admit to it after all the bragging and shenanigans he’s put on here. Some people just push it too far to the point where they can’t back down, especially after they’ve been so publicly proved wrong.”

    Sorry, buddy, I have not been “publicly proved wrong.” I just love how you continue to type that, as if typing it makes it true. And the continued childish name-calling is great! It really helps your arguments, Zek. I continue to be a — what was it? — oh yes: “ignorant hypocrite.” Lovely. But I guess that’s all you have left. In sum: I stand by my arguments, most of which you have not responded to. Again, I guess all you have left is calling me names in posts to Leigh204 — to which she promptly and wholeheartedly agrees. LOL. Sticks and stones, Zek…

    “But more importantly, for us to combat racism outside of the blogosphere, we need to confront it amongst ourselves. That includes me, and that definitely includes guys like Randy, and Hugh, who actually think of themselves as being against racism. The irony is so palatable, you could eat it with a fork and knife.”

    You know Zek, your arguments are toothless, and your childish demand that I am NOT against racism I disagree with. I actually think you are smarter than that. But I definitely agree with you, here: we need to fight racism: white racism (institutional and otherwise), Asian racism, black racism, and all other forms of racism and ideologies of racial elitism and exclusivism. It is all wrong, and it is all hurtful. Truly, I could not care less if you do not think that I fight racism or not. But we do live in America, and it is to be expected that we will disagree on things.

    But it is my deepest desire that we all learn to struggle through our racial struggles together, even as my Asian, Indian, and black friends and I try to do so on a regular basis. I think we will. But it’s hard. We are working to trust each other to talk about these things together, and, again, it’s hard, to be honest. But I hope that we will not stop talking and trying just because it is hard. And I certainly hope we will not stop even though you insist that our efforts are “hypocritical and ignorant” and that I am not against racism.

    Cheers.

    Like


  339. @kimberly:

    Hi Abagond –
    Love your blog, new to posting. Sorry this is long.

    Welcome, kimberly! Glad to have you. I see you’re already off to a good start with your posting. I hope to see you around here quite often. 😀

    Have to disagree about the Asians being less segregated so numerically it would work out like that because 1. like King has mentioned – the gender disparity is just too high and 2. I live in LA which is arguably the most (East and Southeast) Asian city in the US and Asians live closely amongst Blacks, and especially Latinos as well as whites. So it would make sense that there are high numbers of couples featuring Black or Latino men with Asian women right? And while there are quite a few, NOTHING like the WM/AF numbers.

    You’ve got that right.

    Personal anecdote – I myself am a Korean-American woman born in NY, in my mid 30s. What Leigh204, King and Zek have mentioned is exactly my experience, but not till I lived on the West coast. White men randomly telling me how much they like Asian chicks, telling me they’re “into Japan” (I’m Korean douchebag), asking if my “thing is slanted” (kid you not) and otherwise gawking, following and basically making me to feel like they own me. I have been harassed, slapped, groped, threatened and told “you whores should go back where you came from” after turning down white males. (I have no interest in white males.) I in my entire life cannot think of one time where an Asian, Black, Latino or Indian man has ever disrespected me like that. It is common discussion not just amongst Asian women and men but also amongst white women who have seen it repeatedly. I used to live in San Francisco and it was easily the worst city I experienced this in out of the 5 I have lived in.

    I’ve experienced a lot of what you’ve mentioned as well, kimberly. One time I was at a club with my significant other, this white guy proceeds to pester me. Oh, yeah, He did the, “I love Asian chicks!” schtick. I told him I wasn’t interested and my bf (he’s Asian) was there with me. He told the other guy to back off and this guy started saying racist crap to me and my bf. So my bf said to meet him outside the club and the white guy says, “Oh, whatchu gonna do now? Do some karate sh!t?” It’s funny but my significant other didn’t have any martial arts experience, but he knew enough to sucker punch the guy. Down he went. Anyway, violence doesn’t solve anything, but you open your mouth like that, don’t be surprised when someone will close it for you.

    Also a number of white men go out of their way to insult/denigrate Asian men. To me. An Asian woman. WTF. I noticed that a lot of white men who want Asian women do this. It disgusts me. Some of them bring up the age old (and untrue) size stereotype, which is ironic because 1. I’ve already been with Asian penises and 2. they seem obsessed with them. Or they play the white savior card and warn me about Asian men being possessive or chauvinist. Again, the irony.

    Ahh, yes. I hear ya, kimberly.

    Now there are Asian women who tolerate this and date these white males. Or who actually just “don’t like Asian guys”. These women IMO are a disgrace. They have internalized white racism/self hate so badly they are willing to stereotype and throw Asian men under the bus.

    Yes, I know the kind of Asian women you are referring to. They have a lot of nerve denigrating Asian men when those men could be their fathers, uncles, brothers, and cousins.

    Google Natasha Yi’s husband from that radio show in SF.

    She defended her husband for his racist remarks on the Asian community. That says a lot about her.

    So for Hugh and Randy to blame Asian men for their own twisted logic is as someone said “more deflective white male lunacy”. Couldn’t have said it better.

    Watch yourself, kimberly, or else you’ll be accused of being another insecure Asian male. 😉 😛

    Like


  340. @Kimberly

    (I’m SO surprised that Leigh204 jumped in and agreed with literally everything, BTW! LOL)

    So, yes, and then we have the bitter Korean-American 30-something middle-aged woman … Kimberly. Kimberly has set herself up as judge, jury, and executioner in her obvious obsession to mark and humiliate all of these “disgraceful” Asian women who are dating these grotesque white men. I mean, my girlfriend was a “disgrace” wasn’t she, Kimberly? She absolutely repulses you, no? Incidentally, it gives me the creeps, but the ironic thing here about my experience in college is that the group of women (and men) who called my girlfriend a “whore” “traitor” and a “banana-slut” were mainly …[drumroll please]… Korean.

    Lovely.

    But I just want you to know that your post is successful — you have accomplished your goal to help everyone clearly feel your seething rage toward white men, and the Asian women who date them, as you rattle off the classic, most worn-out list of white male stereotypes without a SINGLE word of qualification. So let’s play grown-up and make it very clear that all white men who happen to date an Asian woman DO NOT act like… this:

    White men randomly telling me how much they like Asian chicks, telling me they’re “into Japan,” asking if my “thing is slanted” (kid you not) and otherwise gawking, following and basically making me to feel like they own me. I have been harassed, slapped, groped, threatened and told “you whores should go back where you came from” after turning down white males.

    Here we have the classic bogus implication that a simple attraction for Asian women — which a male of any race can have, including Asian males — “liking Asian women,” or being “into Japan” instantly means they have a weird fetish. Nope. That doesn’t work anymore. Even very strong attraction for a certain kind of person in no way automatically means anything other than…attraction. Can it be unhealthy? Sure. But that is the small minority.

    And finally, I have never “thrown Asian men under the bus.” LOL. Yes – white guys who do that are idiots. But they are in the minority. On the contrary, if you actually took time to read my posts above, I state repeatedly that there ARE negative stereotypes of Asian men that we, as white men, must fight against. The penis thing? Of course it’s nonsense. And the typical list of Asian male stereotypes? Of course it’s bogus.

    But here’s Kimberly’s creepy kicker:

    Now there are Asian women who tolerate this and date these white males. Or who actually just “don’t like Asian guys”. These women IMO are a disgrace. They have internalized white racism/self hate so badly they are willing to stereotype and throw Asian men under the bus.

    Ahhh yes. Of course. Anyone who dates these evil, whoring white men (who are obsessed with Kimberly, of course) are a “disgrace.” YEP. They are the sluts of the world, the self-haters who want nothing other than to trash their Asian brothers as small-dicks and feminine geeks. That’s why they date white men, right Kimberly? Ah, the joy of worn-out stereotypes!

    But yeah. Mission accomplished. We get that you hate white men and the Asian women who date them. I’m sure you have more on the way, too, and that Leigh204 will be right behind you cheerleading with smiley-laden posts. LOL.

    Have a good one.

    Like


  341. ^ @kimberly:

    See what I mean about clueless? Just so you know, he’ll follow you around trying to pick apart your posts. Ask Zek J Evets.

    Like


  342. Welcome Kimberly, nice to have another LA person’s perspective.

    @ Hugh

    What you are saying to/about Kimberly is almost textbook Minority 101.

    1) A minority person expresses that they are experiencing prejudice, mistreatment, discomfort, or abuse in their interaction with White society.

    2) Their complaint is met with a denial of their own experiences, an accusation of ulterior motives, an alternate agenda, bitterness, and finally, reverse discrimination—where the White person becomes the victim.

    3) Their stated experiences are then made to seem ridiculous, because hey, ALL White don’t act like that – what are they trying to get away with here?

    This kind of discrediting of personal experiences is not novel. You must consider What Kimberly is actually saying, not what you think that she’s saying. Only then can you decide if she’s simply “imagining everything” or if she’s making it all up, just to make Whites (and certain Asian women) to look bad.

    Kimberly has set herself up as judge, jury, and executioner in her obvious obsession to mark and humiliate all of these “disgraceful” Asian women who are dating these grotesque white men.

    That’s not what she said. Besides, EVERYONE is the judge and jury of their own mind. Kimberly is entitled to make observation, and to form conclusions and make personal judgements based on those observations. She is also entitled to share those opinions and observations with other people. Your accusation does not make sense.

    If she was holding court on individual couples , and directly effecting their personal lives, than that would be another thing, but she is not doing that.

    I was once physically attacked by a couple White bikers (motorcycle gang) based on the fact that I was walking down the street with a White guy who happened to be my Mechanic. Now, if I relayed that experience, and tied it into a larger phenomenon of prejudice and a system of historic injustice, would that be me being “bitter?” Would that mean that I am broad brushing ALL White people? Would I immediately need to follow up my story with a statement of qualification that, of course, ALL White people are not racist motorcycle gang members?

    her obvious obsession to mark and humiliate all of these “disgraceful” Asian women who are dating these grotesque white men. I mean, my girlfriend was a “disgrace” wasn’t she, Kimberly? She absolutely repulses you, no? “

    When did Kimberly’s experience become ABOUT YOU? What does your relationship with your Asian girlfriend have to do with Kimberly’s experiences? She never said once that ALL White men are like that. She was just saying that SOME White men are acting on a fetish and YOU have said the same thing yourself! However, when any example of it is ever brought up, you immediately take it as a generalization, for some reason.

    If you don’t act like this, then Kimberly’s experiences are NOT about you.

    Even very strong attraction for a certain kind of person in no way automatically means anything other than…attraction. Can it be unhealthy? Sure. But that is the small minority.”

    Again, Kimberly never said it was the majority of White guys. But just because it’s not doesn’t mean that the problem is insignificant. Terrorists are a small minority too, but it doesn’t mean that their actions can’t effect a LOT of people. — Warning: disclaimer to follow (NO that was NOT equating White men to terrorists, it was using an example to demonstrate how the bad actions of a few can significantly effect then lives of the many)

    Ahhh yes. Of course. Anyone who dates these evil, whoring white men (who are obsessed with Kimberly, of course) are a “disgrace.” YEP.

    That’s not what she said. Kimberly stated disgust at Asian women who BOTH date White men, AND then choose to denigrate all asian men in the process. That would be analogous to you being upset because a White woman was not only dating a minority, but also decided to use that opportunity to say that she is doing so because there are no White men who are worth dating. WHy do I get the idea that if that reverse scenario happened that you too would find it equally offensive?

    You really seem to be reacting again to any post that points out bad action by any White men. You seem to admit that there is a problem (with a small minority of White men) but whenever someone points it out in real time, you take it either as a personal insult, or as an attack on all White men.

    That is completely not the case.

    Like


  343. Woot! Woot! Hey, King. Are you sure you’re not an insecure, Asian male talking? 😛

    Like


  344. So, yes, and then we have the bitter Korean-American 30-something middle-aged woman … Kimberly.

    Oh lord, here we go again with the ‘bitter asian woman’ schtick. Can’t you come up with something more original. I am starting to wonder if in fact you are an asian woman, who out of some sort of guilt is writing all this bullshite.

    Kimberly has set herself up as judge, jury, and executioner in her obvious obsession to mark and humiliate all of these “disgraceful” Asian women who are dating these grotesque white men.

    No door knob, Kimberly is relaying anecdotal incidents based upon her own experiences. At no time does she infer her experiences to encompass a whole group.

    Incidentally, it gives me the creeps, but the ironic thing here about my experience in college is that the group of women (and men) who called my girlfriend a “whore” “traitor” and a “banana-slut” were mainly …[drum roll please]… Korean.

    If she was dating a racist like you, they may have been onto something!

    as you rattle off the classic, most worn-out list of white male stereotypes without a SINGLE word of qualification.

    Kimberly doesn’t have to qualify anything to you, that’s just it. Kimberly was speaking anecdotally based upon her own experiences. I’d hazard a guess and say this happens to quite a few asian women in some form or other. It’s like your pi**ed off because Leigh and Kimberly aren’t singing the white mans praises and hurling insults at asian men.

    So let’s play grown-up and make it very clear that all white men who happen to date an Asian woman DO NOT act like… this:

    Who said they did?

    Anyone who dates these evil, whoring white men (who are obsessed with Kimberly, of course) are a “disgrace.” YEP.

    You are delusional sir! You protest to much!

    I’m sure you have more on the way, too, and that Leigh204 will be right behind you cheerleading with smiley-laden posts.

    I should hope so!

    @King: First off, stop making sense! This man is a racist who as you say, seeks to diminish a racialized person’s experience. They then flip the script to make it seem as if they are they wronged party. I am sure many racialized people have experienced this type of behaviour from whites as well. But according to Hugh, they are the bitter ones and the perpetrators! ‘Hugh’ should disabuse himself of these notions and quickly. Besides which Hugh, Korean men are gorgeous so I can see Kimberly’s point!

    Like


  345. King,

    Didn’t Kimberly engage in stereotyping and value judgment with this comment:

    Kimberly

    Or who actually just “don’t like Asian guys”. These women IMO are a disgrace. They have internalized white racism/self hate so badly they are willing to stereotype and throw Asian men under the bus.

    Like


  346. This is for Kimberly and Leigh:

    Like


  347. Maybe you can better elaborate, Randy?

    Like


  348. @ Herneith

    Beware! His workout obviously involves a lot of brusque wife beating, preceded by many reps of lifting glasses of sake to his mouth.

    Like


  349. King,

    Kimberly relates several anecdotes wherein she’s annoyed at being stereotyped, but then goes on to do the same thing herself.

    On the one hand she’s (understandably) peeved that white guys would “denigrate” asian men in her presence, then a few sentences later appears to “denigrate” a subset of asian women.

    This type of reasoning appears incongruent.

    Like


  350. @King:

    King
    @ Herneith

    Beware! His workout obviously involves a lot of brusque wife beating, preceded by many reps of lifting glasses of sake to his mouth.

    My dear man, it’s not sake he’s drinking, but soju – a popular Korean liquor. 😉

    Like


  351. @HerneithKing:

    Herneith
    This is for Kimberly and Leigh:

    You have excellent taste. 😀

    Like


  352. then a few sentences later appears to “denigrate” a subset of asian women.

    And there’s the kicker. A part, not the whole. Some Asian women, not all Asian women. Such distinctions are important, though many conveniently ignore them =/

    Which makes Kimberely’s statement quite consistent.

    Like


  353. On the one hand she’s (understandably) peeved that white guys would denigrate” asian men in her presence, then a few sentences later appears to denigrate” a subset of asian women.”

    Really? What subset of Asian women is she denigrating?

    Like


  354. “My dear man, it’s not sake he’s drinking, but soju – a popular Korean liquor.”

    Lol! I stand corrected.

    Like


  355. King and Zek,

    Here’s the original statement:

    Kimberly:

    Or who actually just “don’t like Asian guys”. These women IMO are a disgrace. They have internalized white racism/self hate so badly they are willing to stereotype and throw Asian men under the bus.

    So not only are asian women who don’t date asian men a “disgrace”, she’s stereotyped the alleged reason: “internalized white racism/self hate”.

    I could list several reasons not having anything to do with self-hate why my wife and quite a few of her friends did not want to date asian men.

    Even anti-stereotypers can be guilty of stereotyping, just like anti-racists can be guilty of racism.

    Kind of makes you question whether or not society is benefiting from the current climate of perpetual racial and gender outrage.

    Like


  356. @ Randy

    Can you justify your wife not wanting to date Asian men?

    Like


  357. Randy,

    She’s talking about Asian women who throw Asian men under the bus. Notice she said “these women”; notice that you acknowledged she was talking about a “subset” of Asian women. She’s talking about a specific type of person, not a stereotype — since we know women like this do, in fact, exist. And that doesn’t seem at all inconsistent, or stereotyping. In fact, it’s quite rational to be upset that some people internalize racism and project it onto their own communities, particularly those of the opposite gender.

    But I have a sneaking suspicion you won’t understand or see this.

    Like


  358. Hugh,

    With all due respect, it seems you have a thing for Leigh as you constantly debate with her bringing up allegations that have nothing to do with this topic. You’re just acting like a troll that’s not interested in learning and understanding from those putting in their input. You’re just here to bite the heads of people you KNOW will disagree with because your mind is idle.

    Also, proving your case by posting links to news articles does very little. You only show the kind of arrogance that undermines important conversations dealing with race.

    Leigh and Abagond,

    I’ve been targeting the media for some time (especially in my blog) about their constant use of stereotypes, and I’ve noticed that hollywood likes to characterize Asians as “naturally martial arts experts, or convenience store clerks that can’t speak fluent English which is mostly used as racist comedy. With Asian women, it seems that the ones that are shown, which is pretty rare, are quiet, gentle, sensuous, martial artists, and mysterious villianesses. Some roles are old stereotypes rehashed while new ones show up. Do you agree, and how do you feel about such images as it relates to this topic?

    Like


  359. The questions in my last comment are open to err’body by the way.

    Like


  360. I’ve noticed that hollywood likes to characterize Asians as “naturally martial arts experts, or convenience store clerks that can’t speak fluent English which is mostly used as racist comedy. With Asian women, it seems that the ones that are shown, which is pretty rare, are quiet, gentle, sensuous, martial artists, and mysterious villianesses.

    Oh man, did you ever hit the motherlode of truth on that one, brothawolf.

    Do you believe this is just incidental or is it motivated?

    Like


  361. Well King,

    I think it is more motivated than incidental. Comedy sells especially if it’s offensive. Hollywood is run by mostly whites, and in the end stereotypes, white saviors, and single stories matter no matter how many times they are produced because in the end, they generate profit. At the same time, the public pays to see these films. Sometimes I wonder:

    Would they see a movie where a middle to upper-class non-white family adopts a poor WHITE child and raise them to be successful?

    Would they see a movie about a NON-WHITE teacher teaching and saving inner-city youths and still fit outside the usual stereotypes?

    Would they see a movie about a nonwhite superhero that DOESN’T give into their respective stereotypes, and the movie was NOT a comedy? For examples, an Asian superhero that doesn’t use martial arts to fight or a black superhero that wasn’t a ball player, and the movie wasn’t a comedy.

    Would they see a movie that teaches race and racism HONESTLY?

    I don’t know for sure. I’m thinking they probably won’t. But these and other questions are important. Hollywood helps perpetuate stereotypes, and the audience buys it. Overall, it’s motivated by more and more dollars. It’s almost like being addicted to drugs. Come to think of it, it is like being addicted to drugs. Both can mess up one’s perception of reality if used often.

    Bulanikgirl,

    Yep. There is something about Leigh that he likes which is why he continues to respond to her responses. I think he’s doing it for attention, hers especially.

    Like


  362. King:

    Can you justify your wife not wanting to date Asian men?

    As previously discussed, women occupy a lower social tier throughout most of Asia. Some of the main issues are infidelity, domestic violence, and a lack of assistance in the domestic sphere.

    Regarding the first point, not only did this problem present in her own house, but also for many if not most of her friends. Her 2 closest friends in the US, who she didn’t know back in the Philippines, also had mistress/second mama drama.

    So after putting herself through school, leaving home to build a career, acquiring an H1B visa, and emigrating to the US, she didn’t want to be treated as second-class citizen in a relationship.

    Several of her friends who had come to the US years before and married a Filipino man found to their chagrin that were in the same type of relationship as back home, with their husbands hardly lifting a finger around the house / caring for the kids.

    In her words: “I didn’t come all this way to raise a husband as well as to raise my children.”

    Given that most Asians in the US are relatively recent immigrants, even if a guy is 100% culturally American, there’s a strong likelihood of having 1st gen. parents who’ll expect more traditional gender roles.

    Here’s a non-secret: most asian nationalities don’t like / look down on other asian nationalities. So while a mixed-asian couple may have a great relationship, the inlaws may despise each other, creating problems.

    Given these factors, she thought that asian men were a riskier bet than white guys who were more likely to have been raised to value gender equality.

    Like


  363. As previously discussed, women occupy a lower social tier throughout most of Asia. Some of the main issues are infidelity, domestic violence, and a lack of assistance in the domestic sphere… ”

    Several of her friends who had come to the US years before and married a Filipino man found to their chagrin that were in the same type of relationship as back home…”

    You probably don’t see the problem. But I’ll point it out anyway.

    The Philippines is a populous little archipelago which is home to about 92 million people, plus many more millions spread throughout the diaspora. The archipelago consists of 7,107 islands. There are either 120 or 175 languages spoken there {depending on your method of classification.) There are eleven indigenous ethnic groups. There are at least 13 tribal groups—not to mention all the non-indigenous peoples who now live there.

    So when your wife makes it sound as if her own experience is indicative of ALL of this diverse population and geography, it causes me to take pause. Your wife, when in the Philippines, existed within a subculture within a larger whole. There is NO WAY that she could possibly have judged whether her own experiences (and those of her friends) were universally consistent across ALL other Filipino subcultures, and ethno-linguistic groups.

    Now magnify that same principle across the 17 other East and South-East Asian Nations, and the many Pacific Island ethnic groups. Can your wife’s personal experiences, in any way, reflect the billions of people represented there, comprising the greater portion of the world’s population? Can she really just say, “Been there, tried that, Asian Men are bad partners?”

    This is a TRAVESTY of textbook generalization and oversimplification, and… sorry but… it’s also racism! The assumption that ALL men with dark hair and almond-shaped eyes are lazy and overbearing philanderers, based on very narrow personal experiences, is a racist notion.

    Besides, here in So. Cali, I grew up around Filipino guys. We played basketball together. I went over their houses on special occasions to eat Chicken Adobo, Pansit, and Lumpia. I hung out with them enough to know this reality: There are some VERY good Filipino husbands who respect and love their wives and families in every way. I’m thinking of the Fathers of my friends who were out in the yard tending to the family gardens that they had planted, or making repairs to the house, or walking back with groceries from the corner market. These guys went to church every Sunday with their families, they knew how to cook, they positively spoiled their daughters. They tended to be very humorous, and self deprecating and very open to people of other cultures.

    Do you mean to tell me that your wife didn’t know any families like that? Were they really ALL bad? I knew Filipino mothers who, at least looked happy, as their husbands teased them, and laughed with them, or played Bahay-Kubo (a funny Filipino game that involved singing and hand clapping). Were ALL Filipino men bad examples? Were ALL Asian men a bad risk?

    There really was no justification for an absolute and wholesale rejection of All Asian men as marriage partners. Your wife should have treated Asian men like all other men – to judge them as individuals and by their words and actions, not their culture or race. What she did was wrong.

    Like


  364. @ brothawolf

    I think it is more motivated than incidental. Comedy sells especially if it’s offensive. Hollywood is run by mostly whites, and in the end stereotypes, white saviors, and single stories matter no matter how many times they are produced because in the end, they generate profit.”

    .

    Wow, I couldn’t have said it any better myself! And I agree with your observations about what kind of movies the mainstream audience wants to see/will tolerate. Hollywood is in the business of bread and circuses, they give people what will entertain them, according to their perceived sensibilities. I’d say that some of it is incidental, and some of it is intentional.

    On one hand, people aren’t going to flock to pay for a movie that calls them out, exposes their prejudices, and makes them feel uncomfortable (thank you sir, may I have another?). But on the other hand, I think that there is a subtle backdrop of propaganda in the overall scope of films that get made each year. It seems very difficult to cast minorities in leading roles as the everyman, rather than background sidekicks and cutouts. Denzel and Will Smith may be the exceptions.

    Like


  365. @King:

    I’ve read your post just now and, King, EVERYTHING you mentioned was spot on! This is one of the best posts since this discussion on Asian Fetish began. Oh, I’m sure Randy and that certain person will chime in and try to refute everything, but one thing is certain, you and some others can definitely see what is going on.

    Like


  366. I was referring to this excellent post:

    You probably don’t see the problem. But I’ll point it out anyway.

    The Philippines is a populous little archipelago which is home to about 92 million people, plus many more millions spread throughout the diaspora. The archipelago consists of 7,107 islands. There are either 120 or 175 languages spoken there {depending on your method of classification.) There are eleven indigenous ethnic groups. There are at least 13 tribal groups—not to mention all the non-indigenous peoples who now live there.

    So when your wife makes it sound as if her own experience is indicative of ALL of this diverse population and geography, it causes me to take pause. Your wife, when in the Philippines, existed within a subculture within a larger whole. There is NO WAY that she could possibly have judged whether her own experiences (and those of her friends) were universally consistent across ALL other Filipino subcultures, and ethno-linguistic groups.

    Now magnify that same principle across the 17 other East and South-East Asian Nations, and the many Pacific Island ethnic groups. Can your wife’s personal experiences, in any way, reflect the billions of people represented there, comprising the greater portion of the world’s population? Can she really just say, “Been there, tried that, Asian Men are bad partners?”

    This is a TRAVESTY of textbook generalization and oversimplification, and… sorry but… it’s also racism! The assumption that ALL men with dark hair and almond-shaped eyes are lazy and overbearing philanderers, based on very narrow personal experiences, is a racist notion.

    Besides, here in So. Cali, I grew up around Filipino guys. We played basketball together. I went over their houses on special occasions to eat Chicken Adobo, Pansit, and Lumpia. I hung out with them enough to know this reality: There are some VERY good Filipino husbands who respect and love their wives and families in every way. I’m thinking of the Fathers of my friends who were out in the yard tending to the family gardens that they had planted, or making repairs to the house, or walking back with groceries from the corner market. These guys went to church every Sunday with their families, they knew how to cook, they positively spoiled their daughters. They tended to be very humorous, and self deprecating and very open to people of other cultures.

    Do you mean to tell me that your wife didn’t know any families like that? Were they really ALL bad? I knew Filipino mothers who, at least looked happy, as their husbands teased them, and laughed with them, or played Bahay-Kubo (a funny Filipino game that involved singing and hand clapping). Were ALL Filipino men bad examples? Were ALL Asian men a bad risk?

    There really was no justification for an absolute and wholesale rejection of All Asian men as marriage partners. Your wife should have treated Asian men like all other men – to judge them as individuals and by their words and actions, not their culture or race. What she did was wrong.

    Like


  367. Thanks Leigh, but I’m afraid that Randy will disagree with you.

    Like


  368. Some of the main issues are infidelity, domestic violence, and a lack of assistance in the domestic sphere.

    Of course this doesn’t happen in North America or among white folk. Thank the lord for white folk! And you have the nerve t say Kinberley stereotypes white men?

    Given these factors, she thought that asian men were a riskier bet than white guys who were more likely to have been raised to value gender equality.

    I guess any other multi-generational ethnicity would be out of the question then as whites raise their kids to be gender equal. Everyone else is a patriarchal arsehole!

    Like


  369. @Herneith:

    High five! 😀

    @ King:

    Thanks Leigh, but I’m afraid that Randy will disagree with you.

    Of course, he would. He wouldn’t be Randy if he didn’t. 😉

    Like


  370. “I guess any other multi-generational ethnicity would be out of the question then as whites raise their kids to be gender equal. Everyone else is a patriarchal arsehole!”

    Not Martians.

    Like


  371. @ King

    I agree with Leigh, excellent comment.

    Like


  372. Thanks Abagond.
    Now, if Randy would just make it unanimous.

    Like


  373. @ King:

    yes, yes, and yes.

    My own partner is perhaps not so different to Randy’s actually. She finds a lot of guys from her own country and ethnic group (Malaysian Indians) to have patriarchal attitudes that make them incompatible with her. But at the same time, she also knows that isn’t everyone, and there are great guys out there too.

    I have no doubt that most of the world is several decades behind the West in terms of attitudes to women, but within every culture there is a range of attitudes; it’s not possible to paint a sort of dichotomy where Asians are patriarchal philanderers and white guys aren’t.

    Like


  374. King,

    After the standing ovation you received for your last comment, I’m loath to offer a discordant counterpoint. However, I’m guessing that you’d prefer the honest gambol of genuine debate. So here goes.

    Your comment appears to be logically divided into 3 main points:

    1. My wife’s extrapolation of her experiences of gender non-parity in the Philippines to the rest of Asia is fallacious, an error of stereotyping, and is probably racist.

    2. You’re personally acquainted with seemingly happy Filipino families in SoCal, which argues against the wholesale dismissal of such men as being poor husband choices.

    3. Judging men as a group, and not as individuals is an error in judgment, which you declare to be “wrong”.

    1. Extrapolating one person’s experiences to all of Asia is wrong.

    King:

    This is a TRAVESTY of textbook generalization and oversimplification, and… sorry but… it’s also racism! The assumption that ALL men with dark hair and almond-shaped eyes are lazy and overbearing philanderers, based on very narrow personal experiences, is a racist notion.

    You are right that such simplification is potentially a “travesty of textbook generalization”, except of course if it’s true.

    I’m willing to be convinced on your point if you can tell me which nation or culture in Asia offers a similar level of gender parity for the average woman as in the West, specifically in the areas of fidelity, accountability for domestic violence, and male spousal support in the domestic sphere.

    2. You know some great Filipino husbands.

    I know some fine ones too. I drink beer with them and our kids play together. I doubt that the ones in the US cheat on their wives as much as the ones back home, or at least I haven’t observed that as much firsthand.

    Such a small sample size does not contradict my wife’s perspective which was about “relative risk”. Also, you probably had little insight from your interactions as to whether or not they had mistresses in their younger years, or what expectations they had for their wives based upon gender beliefs.

    Two additional factor to considers:

    1. What is the prevailing attitude of FilAms towards “fobby” wives? My wife’s observation was that many of these men choose FOBs because they’re looking for a traditional wife, not an independent go-getting career women.

    I’d be interested to hear what Eurasian Sensation’s partner would say about the prevailing attitude of Malaysian-Indian men in Australia who choose FOB Malaysian-Indian wives.

    2. Color. It’s no secret that throughout most of Asia, lightness is highly valued. This is much more a class than a racial distinction. The bias is not subtle, rather one is exposed to it daily in ways that your sensitive, progressive Westerner might be shocked at. Darker skinned women like my wife are further incented to date white men because they’re much less likely to be considered less attractive for their skin color, either by potential husbands or their families.

    3. Judging men as a group, and not as individuals is an error in judgment, which you declare to be “wrong”.

    This last point seems uncharacteristically impertinent. Are you not committing an error in judgment yourself in judging the perspective of my wife and Eurasian Sensation’s partner?

    Having not lived through what they’ve lived through, not experiencing the hardships which they’ve endured, are you really in a position to render such an absolute moral judgment?

    Finally, I’d just remind you that the original belief was about relative risk of dating partners based on demographics, not about whether “all men” are this way or that way.

    Like


  375. After the standing ovation you received for your last comment, I’m loath to offer a discordant counterpoint.”

    Not at all, I’m actually interested in your responses and reasoning. I didn’t really expect that you would agree with me outright. Your summarization of my 3 main points is completely accurate, thank you. I hope you won’t mind my rebutting some of your points, in turn?

    You are right that such simplification is potentially a “travesty of textbook generalization”, except of course if it’s true.

    1. Extrapolating one person’s experiences to all of Asia is wrong

    I’m willing to be convinced on your point if you can tell me which nation or culture in Asia offers a similar level of gender parity for the average woman as in the West…”

    I think you are making a logical error here. You are trying to make an argument as to how an individual should be judged by referring to the statistics of the nation that he lives in, rather than on his own merits. The argument is not, which country has the overall best record. We don’t judge people based on how well their countries of origin compare to other countries. We shouldn’t hire people on that basis, we shouldn’t exclude people on that basis, and we shouldn’t marry people based on that.

    When an Asian woman first meets a White guy, does she just assume that he’s safe, based on his skin color and where he was born? I hope not. She must still date the man, and observe him, and then make a judgment about him. So if she has to do this with a White American anyway, then why would she exclude the Asian guy outright, based only on where he was born or how he looks? Is the White man an individual where the Asian man is just a statistic?

    No, the point stands. Judging a person based solely on their “group” is still clearly unfair, and clearly wrong. That is what “prejudice” is.

    2. I know some great Filipino husbands.

    I know some fine ones too. I drink beer with them and our kids play together. I doubt that the ones in the US cheat on their wives as much as the ones back home, or at least I haven’t observed that as much firsthand.”

    So, you know some fine Filipino husbands too, but none of them would have made suitable husbands for your wife to have married? That sounds like another breakdown in logic. The problem is not with your wife recognizing a social trend in her country of origin. The problem is not that your wife ended up marrying a White American guy. The trouble is that she extrapolated her personal experiences into a rule that covered every Asian man on the face of the earth, based on what happened in her village, her town, or her apartment complex in Manilla.

    — Fresh off The Boat Wives

    Traditional wives in traditional couplings are no less legitimate than independent go-getting career women. It is a lifestyle choice, and if both of the participants are of the same mind, then I don’t see your point. And by the way, there are PLENTY of White guys who are also eagerly looking for “traditional Asian wives” as well. This is a quote from one of the many sites:

    “Many of you may have tried the dating sites in your own country; Match.com and similar. You pay a joining fee, send out a hundred “winks” or emails and if your lucky you may get the odd reply once in a while. As you get older, are you finding it more difficult to meet a suitable partner? Are you finding that modern western women have become somewhat de-feminised? Often looking down on any man that doesn’t fit their ideal image. An image the media continually displays for them. Do you wonder if there might be a better way to find your dream partner? Many western men are now seeking an Asian wife… etc.”

    http://www.isanlove.com/page2.htm

    — Color

    Color. It’s no secret that throughout most of Asia, lightness is highly valued. This is much more a class than a racial distinction.”

    It’s class based on color, or “Colorism.” It’s essentially the same as racism.

    “The bias is not subtle, rather one is exposed to it daily in ways that your sensitive, progressive Westerner might be shocked at. Darker skinned women like my wife are further incented to date white men because they’re much less likely to be considered less attractive for their skin color…”

    WHAT!? (cough!!) Are you saying that White men are sought out.. because they are known to be so open minded about Dark Skin!!???

    3. Judging men as a group, and not as individuals is an error in judgment, which you declare to be “wrong”.

    This last point seems uncharacteristically impertinent. Are you not committing an error in judgment yourself in judging the perspective of my wife and Eurasian Sensation’s partner?

    Having not lived through what they’ve lived through, not experiencing the hardships which they’ve endured, are you really in a position to render such an absolute moral judgment?

    Yes.

    You see, whether racism is wrong or not does not depend on what brought someone to be a racist. There are always extenuating circumstances.

    – The way I was brought up
    – Some bad experiences I had with certain people of that race
    – Social pressures
    – Misinformation

    But none of that makes the wrongness of it right, any more than my driving on the right-hand side of the road in London makes it the correct side of the street to drive on because I was taught to drive on that side in California.

    It’s not personal Randy. I don’t say that your wife is a bad person, or that she’s an immoral person, or mean. But you don’t have to be any of those things to be wrong. I am wrong myself at least every day, on one thing or another.

    The bottom line is that being aware of a cultural problem does not give one license to broadly discriminate. There is no harm in checking out the compatibility and suitability of Asian guys in the same way that one would for White guys, Black guys, or Hispanic guys. And every time that your wife repeats her theories in the hearing of younger Asian women, she is hurting someone and distorting their views.

    Every time you come online and repeat these ideas that you can determine the “risk” of an individual based on their overall ethnic group, instead of getting to know the person and giving them the opportunity to prove themselves as individuals, you hurt people. There are Asian guys out there who are genuinely nice guys, and are having trouble finding wives because of all the negative rumors being spread about them. They don’t get a chance to prove who they are. Evidently they are too “risky” to even try out.

    How can that not be wrong?

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  376. King,

    Is the White man an individual where the Asian man is just a statistic? […] Judging a person based solely on their “group” is still clearly

    unfair, and clearly wrong. That is what “prejudice” is.

    You raise an interesting question: are people individuals? Only somewhat. Otherwise you wouldn’t have unique tribal, ethnic, and national customs and cultures found in discrete places around the world.

    People tend to be products of their cultural environment, and in the West that means more respect for gender equality than in the East. I know it’s not so fashionable to point out positive characteristics about white/Western folks around here, but this reality is simply the case. Therefore, it’s no great leap to predict that men who grew up in the west are more likely to favor gender equality than men who grew up in the East.

    The trouble is that she extrapolated her personal experiences into a rule that covered every Asian man on the face of the earth, based on what

    happened in her village, her town, or her apartment complex in Manilla.

    As previously stated, I think it’s a fairly accurate statement to make that such patriarchal attitudes are not just found in a single town or city, but rather are quite common amongst a bogglingly large area and a diverse population. My challenge to find an exception to this still stands.

    WHAT!? (cough!!) Are you saying that White men are sought out.. because they are known to be so open minded about Dark Skin!!???

    Correct. You may wish to read Abagond’s post, “Black women that white men like”, wherein he and quite a few of the commenters share the observation that white men who are open to dating black women generally care much less about skin tone than do those within the black community.

    A similar dynamic prevails in asian communities. You might be surprised at how rampant colorism really is, even in the US. I still hear colorist statements on a regular basis from friends, family, and even strangers.

    Every time you come online and repeat these ideas that you can determine the “risk” of an individual based on their overall ethnic group, instead of getting to know the person and giving them the opportunity to prove themselves as individuals, you hurt people.

    What’s interesting about this discussion is that people discriminate against potential mates all the time based upon superficial characteristics such as
    height, weight, hair color, etc and there’s not nearly the same hue and cry, even though these characteristics offer zero predictive indicators about a person’s relationship potential.

    However, “culture of origin” does in fact offer some predictive qualities (though certainly not close to 100%), and yet it causes such consternation.

    Why should culture of origin matter? As explained above, people tend to be products of their environment. I think 2 other relevant factors relate to this:

    – A person’s family can have an impact on one’s relationship. Except for strict “nuclear family” arrangements, you don’t just marry an individual. Your mate might be a freewheeling liberal, but what about the in-laws?

    – As people grow older, they tend to adopt more traditional values and norms. Any of Abagond’s readers who are late-30s and older have surely observed this amongst their friends and relatives. I’ll further postulate that this “cultural drift” is likely even more pronounced among those who maintain close extended family / clan ties.

    Mate selection for women is a huge gamble, even more so than for men. I don’t begrudge them for desiring to improve their odds of a compatible match, even if that process is politically incorrect. One might argue that idealism is a luxury, and that pragmatism is the bread and butter for those who face difficult choices.

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  377. You raise an interesting question: are people individuals? Only somewhat. Otherwise you wouldn’t have unique tribal, ethnic, and national customs and cultures found in discrete places around the world

    That’s incorrect. The fact that individuals may follow group customs does not mean that they cease to be individuals. People choose to what extent (if at all) the will follow group customs or identity.

    People tend to be products of their cultural environment

    That’s far too simple. For one thing, it is peoples choices that creates the cultural environment in the first place. For another, cultural environments are constantly evolving, and the engine of this evolutionary change is people making choices about culture. Thirdly, there is never just one culture, but many cultures and counter-cultures within any sizable group of individuals. And lastly, people opt out of the parts of their culture that they disagree with or are uncomfortable with all of the time. Your understanding of culture is much too limited to reflect the true gamut of individual choices that are always available within any culture.

    That doesn’t mean that cultural trends don’t exist. But it does mean that you can’t predict a person’s actions, attitudes, or beliefs, simply by tying them to a certain culture.

    As previously stated, I think it’s a fairly accurate statement to make that such patriarchal attitudes are not just found in a single town or city, but rather are quite common amongst a bogglingly large area and a diverse population. My challenge to find an exception to this still stands.”

    Consider what you are saying. You personally don’t know many of these people (not a significant percentage of them) but nevertheless, you believe that you know how they think. It doesn’t matter how many languages, or tribes, or islands they live on. You feel capable of understanding their oppressive and “patriarchal” tendencies. Are you really in a position to render such an absolute moral judgment?

    Consider for a moment that you may be somewhat shortsighted. Are you familiar with Taoist philosophy? Let me ask you this question. Which is stronger, Yin or Yang? Yet Yin is Female and Yang is Male. How is it that they are equally balanced in power, yet opposed in nature? Do you realize that the Taoist ideal is to balance masculine and feminine roles, each having dominance in it’s own sphere of influence, each leading or following in the domain of the other?

    There are always abuses (just as there have been in the West) but to consider all Asian cultures to be oppressive and domineering to women is to misunderstand how Asians traditionally view their place in nature. A husband leads in certain things, and a Wife leads in certain things, they both have their duties and roles that bring honor upon the and their families. As an outsider you cannot simply assume that your Western ideas are superior.

    Abuse philandering, and bullying, is one thing, but that has happened in all societies to women. There are good men and bad. Don’t assume that because men and women hold traditional roles within their culture that they are somehow backward or less advanced than you are, Even among those who are philanders, many of those men would not think of failing to provide for their families as many Western men are wont to do.

    http://www.ktre.com/story/12163401/top-ten-list-of-texas-most-wanted-child-support-evaders?redirected=true

    I’ll finish up later if I can.

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  378. @ Randy

    Correct. You may wish to read Abagond’s post, “Black women that white men like”, wherein he and quite a few of the commenters share the observation that white men who are open to dating black women generally care much less about skin tone than do those within the black community.

    White men pay slightly less attention to a black woman’s skin tone while making for it by paying attention to whether or not she has “European Facial Features.” Something that black men don’t really care about. Everytime you post, you always ignore factors that hurt your argument.

    Like


  379. @ Randy:
    I’d be interested to hear what Eurasian Sensation’s partner would say about the prevailing attitude of Malaysian-Indian men in Australia who choose FOB Malaysian-Indian wives.

    It’s a bit complicated, because Malaysian-Indians tend to be far more Westernised than Indian-Indians. Particularly the educated and wealthy. So as in most Asian countries, the attitudes are varied and transitioning. My partner is a FOB but is not “fobby” if you know what I mean.

    Something else I’ll add is that at least in my part of the world, there is another reason that Asian-Australian guys date/marry FOB Asian girls. It’s because so many Asian-Australian girls are with white guys, so Asian-Australian guys are often finding love amid the new arrivals.

    Like


  380. Actually Randy there is a lot of truth in what you say about darker-skinned Asian women sometimes being appreciated more by foreigners than by their own people. I’ve heard some Indonesians wondering why Western men would go for someone who looks like a “village girl” (ie. is darkish).
    But at the end of the day, good-looking is good-looking, and while dark skin may slightly downgrade the perception of a woman, pretty women are still going to have plenty of suitors.

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  381. Eurasian Sensation:

    I’ve heard some Indonesians wondering why Western men would go for someone who looks like a “village girl” (ie. is darkish).

    You can probably imagine that such a woman, after hearing this type of talk for decades, might have her fill and grow tired of it.

    Like


  382. I dated one Asian female. I remember when she introduced me to her mom, it was like, W T F—. Well, at that moment she realized I was Black. I thought I would laugh my ass off!! Asian women are beautiful, but so are many other races of women. I believe that the only reason Asian women go for the white guys is for money and power. I would marry an Asian woman in a minute. They are GREAT!!, in bed because that’s one way they show their love. And they’re damn good at it.

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  383. I’ve been crazy about Asian women every since I was a kid. I married two of them though not at the same time of course. (laughing) My first was a Korean school teacher. She was quiet, very nice, and good looking. Sorry to say she bowed to family pressure and we divorced. I’m biracial and that didn’t set will with her family since they wanted her to marry white. My current wife’s filipina. We’ve been married over 21 years, have 5 wonderful children, two lovely grandaughters. My beloved is ‘good as gold’ and I’m so lucky to have such a wonderful person in my life.

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  384. I think the Asian fetish is disgusting and dehumanizing. I notice that when it comes to asian males they’re viciously bashed by white men. I notice that the stereotypes about non-white men are designed to give white men an advantage in the dating department. I get the feeling that if white men weren’t upheld as the ideal man they would have to compete just as fiercely as other men. I think many white men cannot compete against other men which is why they need these dumb stereotypes to persist.

    Like


  385. @ Rosanna:

    I think the Asian fetish is disgusting and dehumanizing. I notice that when it comes to asian males they’re viciously bashed by white men. I notice that the stereotypes about non-white men are designed to give white men an advantage in the dating department. I get the feeling that if white men weren’t upheld as the ideal man they would have to compete just as fiercely as other men. I think many white men cannot compete against other men which is why they need these dumb stereotypes to persist.

    Yes, I notice that, too. I find it amusing the white men who bash Asian men make comments about the size of Asian men’s penises. As if the size of their penises are a measure of what true men are. Men are not sexual organs alone. Not only that, these white men with the fetish say Asian men are dominating, sexist, and patriarchal. Oh, and white men aren’t? Give me a break.

    Like


  386. What? And here I thought Asian women were submissive, meek, and docile. 😀

    Like


  387. THIS NEVER HAPPEN IN THE TRUE ASIA…just outside the Asia motherlands, and i’m a thai woman from the true Asia sphere. i’m a translator working in Asia, and was born in my motherland and grow up in my motherland. thailand is uncolonized but developping country. There is instead typical pairing of whitemen and lowest class non-Thai ethic black skinned Issan women from the northeast part of Thailand, and the northeast part of thailand was in fact conquerred and have been ruled by the thai ruler minority of light gold skin for 200 years. Non-thai ethic black skinned Issan go for whitemen for money purpose only. DAYDREAMING WHITEMEN ha ha ha… EVERYTHING IS FOR MONEY OF WHITEMEN…THIS IS WHAT HAPPENING IN THE TRUE ASIA. Whitemen for me and the rest of thai ethic women of light gold skin are not at all attractive but have wrinkling skin. Just poorest non-thai ethic women in the norhteast and the south of Thailand conquerred by thai siam go for whitemen for financial purposes or for MONEY only, nothing else.

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  388. Did my own experiment on some dating sites, as a Asian female in her late 30’s who prefers her own race. Here’s what I’ve discovered, there are not that many Asian men joining. And the few who are viable, usually cap their age range much lower than themselves as compared to other races.
    Now if 99% of the messages I receive are from white men, and if not my first choice, I’m not against such unions either, guess which I will probably end up with?
    The point? There are just more white people!

    Like


  389. ^ Gee, it sounds like you are preferring to use dating sites to meet people, and those that you frequent are geared mostly for white people.

    Did you consider using
    – dating sites that are more focused on including more Asians
    – medium other than dating sites to meet people

    I must admit, many Asian men might be looking for younger women. So, think to yourself … what would men who are closer middle-aged do to meet people.

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  390. White men with an Asian Fetish are easy to spot. They usually think all Asian women are hot. LOL! White Men who don’t have an Asian Fetish but end up marrying an Asian woman are usually the normal guys.

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  391. Rosy I don’t know about all Asian women being hot but I do know mine is. (LOL!) We’ve been married for 23 years, have five university educated kids, and two honor roll grandchildren. God willing we plan to have a big party for our hoped for 25 Wedding Anniversary. Under God shes’ the light of my life. Am I white-nope-tri-racial (Native American, Black, Jewish); nice post

    Like


  392. Men are dogs lol I personally have a strong sexual attraction to Asians men and women I don’t really think its a fetish though the word fetish implies attraction for a thing not a person. I first realized I liked my own sex watching power rangers at eight years old the supervillian was an Asian women ever sense I just have been attracted to Asian women and all sorts of other women

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  393. White men view white women as their property, so it is no surprise that they would feel that they own Asian women as well. This is the reason why white male/Asian female couples are acceptable to white men yet Asian male/white female couples are frowned upon by them. We see the entitlement that white males exhibit towards Asian women in the way they stereotype them as submissive China Dolls who serve to stroke their egos. Then to ensure their white male dominance, they emasculate Asian men by stereotyping them as weak, nerdy, and effeminate.

    I once heard about a white girl who was attracted to an Asian boy. She asked her white male friends whether she should date him. They all said “No.” because they thought that would be “weird”. Ironically, most of her white male friends had Asian girlfriends. You would think these white males would be more open-minded, seeing how they themselves are engaging in interracial relationships. But this is clearly not the case. White men see nonwhite women as simply a tool for fulfilling their racist/sexist fantasies. This goes back to slavery, when white men raped the black women they owned.

    In any case, my own experience with white men who are paired with Asian women is that some hold very racist views towards Asian men. This is no surprise, given that they already view Asian women in such an objectifying manner.

    Like


  394. @Kiwi,

    white male/Asian female couples are acceptable to white men yet Asian male/white female couples are frowned upon by them

    Just want to clarify your meaning.
    You are saying that white men, even those that date or even marry Asian women, express disdain on the concept of Asian men / White women pairings.

    I think it is correct for many. They lust after Asian women and find it disgusting to see a white woman with an Asian man. My mother got the most flack from white men.

    Do you think that white men are equally disgusted by black men / white women pairings? By your logic, they should be.

    my own experience with white men who are paired with Asian women is that some hold very racist views towards Asian men.

    If this is coupled with the situation of the Asian woman (with that white man) who sees herself as “better” for being recognized as more acceptable to white people esp. since she has a white man / husband, then WOE if they have any kids, esp. sons. Imagine if the boy’s father is very racist towards Asian men and holds on to his white privilege ego, and the boy’s mother somehow thinks she is better because she is connected to a white man, BUT their son is not able to pass as white, and gets mistaken as, or treated as Asian most of the time. He will grow up thinking he is an utter piece of shit or something like that, unless he is able to convince people that he only looks Asian, but is actually white.

    I used to be on a Eurasian forum and some of the people came on their to talk about their experiences of having a young mother from a poor family in Asia and a creaky old white father. They could be 20 years old with a 40 yr. old Asian mom and a 65-70 yr. old white Dad who did not really respect Asians.

    Like


  395. @ jefe

    You are saying that white men, even those that date or even marry Asian women, express disdain on the concept of Asian men / White women pairings.

    Correct. America is a white patriarchy, which was exemplified by anti-miscegenation laws designed to “protect” white women from nonwhite men. In reality, white men passed these laws to restrict white women from marrying nonwhite men. Meanwhile, white men protected their right to abuse nonwhite women. White men could rape nonwhite women without punishment by law, while white men lynched nonwhite men who slept with white women. A white woman could lose her American citizenship for marrying a foreign nonwhite man. Whereas, a white man would not lose his citizenship for marrying a foreign nonwhite woman. In America, it is more acceptable for white men to marry nonwhite women than it is for nonwhite men to marry white women. This is because white men are the gatekeepers of society and call the shots. For white men, this includes controlling white women while appropriating nonwhite women for themselves.

    My aunt is Asian and is married to a white man. She claims to have never experienced racism by white people. This makes sense, since her marriage to a white man indirectly confers white privilege on her. If she were married to an Asian man, she would not have any white privilege conferred on her and she would likely experience more racism. If an Asian man is married to a white woman, the wife has no male privilege and so is unable to confer her white privilege on her husband because America is a white patriarchy. White women who marry other races face greater ostracism than white men who marry other races because white men are able to control white women.

    Do you think that white men are equally disgusted by black men / white women pairings?

    The recent Cheerios ad featuring a black man married to a white woman came under heavy fire by white men. These white men saw white women as their property and were angry that black men were taking “their” women. I believe that most of these white men also feel entitled to sleep with any Asian woman they desire, which highlights their hypocrisy.

    Like


  396. Asian men get screwed in this because white women are not equally open about dating outside their race. Also white stereotypes of Asian men as nerdy and unmanly do not help.

    There are several reasons why white men+Asian women is more common than Asian men+white women.

    1. The media stereotypes Asian women as desirable.

    2. The media stereotypes Asian men as undesirable.

    3. The media presents white men as the ideal romantic partner.

    4. White women, more than all other women, strongly prefer their own men.

    5. White men are much more open to other races than white women.

    The result is that:

    1. White men have a fetish for Asian women.

    2. Asian women prefer white men, even more than white women do.

    3. Asian men feel inadequate around white women.

    4. White women are repulsed by Asian men.

    Like


  397. Being a mulatto male living in Chicago the most racially segregated city in America isn’t easy either. But I’ve always managed to find plenty of good looking and well educated dates of all races. Kiwi ma’ man you just have to be a bit more aggressive and go for it dude. (laughing)

    Like


  398. @Kiwi,

    If an Asian man is married to a white woman, the wife has no male privilege and so is unable to confer her white privilege on her husband

    Whereas I do agree that the Asian husband will not earn much white privilege from his white wife (and in fact, she will lose a good deal of her white privilege), I cannot say that the husband will not enjoy any benefit. It might help him break into some white only circles (neighborhoods, social clubs, business or professional circles) – if he has a white wife, then they might not worry as much that he will bring in all his “Asian friends” into the circle and overrun it. But he has to demonstrate in front of those white circles that he will NOT bring in Asians to the circles, that he supports the white hierarchy. Then he might be allowed to become a token.

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  399. @Fred,
    It sounds like you might have some “Asian Fetish” yourself. 😛

    But as a non-Asian man, you might not be subject to the same form of Asian male bashing that is actively performed by white men, white women and Asian-American women. The fact that you have managed to marry Asian women multiple times does not erase or cancel the Asian male bashing phenomenon that is pervasive in US society. It might not be appropriate to project your experience onto others who face a different situation.

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  400. Kiwi

    My aunt is Asian and is married to a white man. She claims to have never experienced racism by white people. This makes sense, since her marriage to a white man indirectly confers white privilege on her.
    ——————————————————————————————————–

    Its not that your aunt is lying, but she is not telling you the truth, and as a result, you are making false assumptions about how the system of racism WHITE supremacy works.

    For example, John Derbyshire is a well known white nationalist married to an Asian female and it has created a division among racist white men. They don’t like to argue about it openly as it only creates division among white men.; but they also want the issue “solved” so it does not serve as a distraction going forward.

    realizing this, Derbyshire has coined the term “Artic Federation” to describe a racial compromise among white men where nonwhite women above a certain lattitude are acceptable for marriage and sexual purposes…

    It didn’t go over that well for a number of reasons, the major one being the annoyance that some white man are running a “do as I say not as I do” routine on other white men.

    Look it up, I think its called the “artic coalition”.

    Like


  401. jefe

    I used to be on a Eurasian forum and some of the people came on their to talk about their experiences of having a young mother from a poor family in Asia and a creaky old white father. They could be 20 years old with a 40 yr. old Asian mom and a 65-70 yr. old white Dad who did not really respect Asians.
    ——————————————————————————————————

    Thanks for bring that up cause I often wondered about it.

    On many of the PUA blogs the white guys discuss getting a young Asian wife when they are 60 and ready to be taken care of.

    Like


  402. My family is quite mixed. Most are married to Filipinos and other Asians while the rest are married to black and white people. A male cousin of mine is married to a white woman while several female cousins are married to black and white men.

    It’s as different as night and day. The white men my female cousins married, with the exception of one, gave me this vibe that they seem to fetishize their wives. I have heard them say stereotypes associated with Asian women. They go on to say with pride how they’re glad they married Asian women because they retain their youthful looks longer than white women, and care for the husband’s and family’s well-being. And in the same breath, they put down white women saying they’re selfish and they let themselves go appearance-wise.

    As for the cousins who married black men, I haven’t heard their husbands say anything remotely fetishistic about Asian women. However, it doesn’t mean they haven’t. I simply haven’t witnessed anything that would lead me to believe they have an Asian fetish. Besides, one of my cousin’s white husband gives me the creeps. We have family gatherings and I’ve caught him looking up and down at me even undressing me with his eyes. I told this to my cousin (she’s whitewashed), and she laughed, “He always does that, though.” Ugh, I can’t believe the excuse she made for him.

    I told my husband and he was prepared to physically act. He did mention to my cousin’s husband about his “googly eyes” and let’s say there was an understanding. If my cousin’s husband says something or tries something with me again, teeth are gonna fly. Needless to say, I excuse myself whenever we’re in the same room together. The thought of him being anywhere near me makes the hairs on my neck stand up.

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  403. (smiling!) I can’t believe it Leigh but your family sounds like mine! I’m mixed (Indian, Black, Jewish), my wife’s Filipino and good looking, great family all married to a cross section of many races and we all get along quite well. As with yourself the only folks who seems more than a bit odd are the…white folks in our family. They aren’t hostile but sorry to say certainly have ‘attitude problems’ if you know what I mean. I enjoyed reading your comment and wish you and your family well in life; peace and all things good.

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  404. @ Kiwi:

    I know how strongly you feel about the wm/am interracial dating/marriage disparity. I want to know your thoughts about this article.

    http://www.returnofkings.com/32248/the-dating-success-of-asian-women-is-due-to-white-obesity

    Like


  405. Oops, I meant wm/aw. 😳

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  406. I know how strongly you feel about the wm/am interracial dating/marriage disparity. I want to know your thoughts about this article.”

    Leigh, Kiwi, I hope you don’t mind me responding to this article as well.

    What a bunch of losers.

    To begin with, any site namer “returnofkings” smacks of Tolkienesque fantasy nerds! And not in a good way!

    All you need do is browse the site for other helpful articles like:

    “A Guide For Getting Laid At Anime Conventions”

    “What To Do If You’re A Virgin In Your 20′s”

    “Don’t Let Women Rule Your Life”

    And of course, that old PUA classic:

    “The Benefits of Having A Good Wingman”

    But, back to the gist of the article—like most clueless PUAs, the writer of the article misses the basic fact that Asian women who live a Western lifestyle, consume a Western diet, and adopt Western sensibilities, can also pick up weight as the grow older… Yes, just like other WesternersT (Shocking I know!)

    On the other hand, there are also plenty of salad-crunching, yoga pants wearing, egg-white omelette making, tennis shoe in the purse carrying, stair climbing, $500 gym membership having, White women who are not fat.

    If these PUA losers are that obsessed by weight, then wouldn’t you think that instead of singling out “race” that they would zero in on “habits” and lifestyle as a better indicator as to who was least likely to pick up weight as they grow older?

    In the end this is just simple thinking for the simple-minded. Or, the looser’s fantasy guide to how they wish to the world actually worked.

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  407. @ King:

    You’re more than welcome to respond to this article. I always value your keen insight. 🙂 Yeah, I perused through this site and these guys are clearly losers. I was just tying this article with the Asian Fetish thread. I have met WM who say one of the reasons why they’re so attracted to AW is because they’re slim and they let the man rule the household. Misogyny at its finest.

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  408. @ Leigh204

    Like King, I was also intrigued by this article in your post to Kiwi.
    Is it “intrigued” I mean? When I started seeing the word “chicks” come up, I realised it was not a comedy-site, but serious and completely un-self-conscious.

    Here, the author contemplates the “rise” of the Asian woman in the esteem of the white man as he tries out other ethnic flavours in the dateable woman candy shop:

    The rise of Asian women functions like a positive feedback loop. As more white guys find they can’t date a thin white girl, they decide to branch out and try an Asian. Soon, they discover that Asian women make excellent romantic partners. Certainly there are trashy, slutty Asian girls, quite similar to the white club chicks who are often derided in the manosphere, but generally speaking, Asian women are of high quality, with strong sex drives, nice bodies, clean, top-notch pvssies, intelligent minds, and good values …

    Good values and top notch genitals. What a combo! What a package!

    I also was dumbstruck with the sympathic advice, given this “rise” in value:

    Asian women used to struggle with a dating disadvantage because of their ethnic features. Their eyes looked too narrow to white men, but almost no one talks about that anymore. When I was growing up, you heard lots of private jokes about funny accents and slanty eyes, but now, behind closed doors, the talk about Asian women is how much skinnier they are than the white chicks. Notes to Asian females: (1) Do not adopt our poisonous American diet, and (2) No one cares about the eyes any more. Save your money and don’t get plastic surgery. We’re looking at your thin waist and your little butt.

    I noticed when he spoke about South Asians, it’s as though everyone of them, exclusively, would only date white people (including FAT white people, because whiteness outshines all the disadvantages of FATness).

    Like


  409. Well i am going to add my two cents, and this link for a website called Return of Kings pickup artist advice for trying to hook up with young Asian females. This just looks like a site for losers. I am shaking my head. It’s pretty pathetic.

    Like


  410. i wrote a song a long time ago, basic 12 bar blues, i forget most of it, but it was about a mail order bride store, and “my baby she was out of stock!”

    Like


  411. Leigh:

    Thanks for linking to Return of Kings. You did a good deed. For every couple dozen people who dismiss it, and the rest of the manosphere, as “misogyny” for “losers” “creeps” ( — code words for low value men, just like $lut, and wh*re are code words for low value women, though we accept the former words but not the latter ones in polite discourse–) there may be one guy who gets it and starts exploring and turns his life around.

    Why do nearly half of marriages now end in divorce? why are nearly half of kids born out of wedlock? Why are men so much more effemintate than the men of a couple generations ago?

    The answers are out there, guys. It’s not just stuff for “PUAs”. Knowledge of how the genders actually work and what women actually want (not what they say they want) can also help you protect/save your marriage. It’s done wonders for mine.

    As to the specific article, you can wait for Kiwi’s sage response, but I would say, yeah, definitely Asian girls tend to be a lot less plump than white girls. That is a huge plus. They also tend to be flatter, which is negative for most (but not all white guys). Overall, the primary advantage is more that Asian girls may be more feminine/traditional. Asian American girls who have become as feminist and promiscuous as their white counterparts are just disgusting.

    Like


  412. Gone are the days (thankfully) I don’t have to deal with gross, Asian fetishists.

    Like


  413. Any type of fetishizing is disgusting.

    Like


  414. @ Mary Burrell:

    You’ve got that right! 😉

    Like


  415. @ biff

    Loser is not code for “low value men.” Loser is code for loser! Some dimwit who thinks that because an Internet guru brings up a few real problems that he also must be espousing correct solutions. Guys who have no idea how reality really works, yet who concoct Byzantine theories and flawed field guides on how to better themselved based on the mosty puerile nonsense.

    Like


  416. @ leigh204

    I honestly thought that was a joke article when I first read it. There are plenty of thin white women and fat Asian women. In a country that has over 100 million white women, a white guy would definitely have to be a sore loser if he can’t hook up with at least one who’s thin. Since it’s clear the writer was serious, I think he’s a creep.

    Like


  417. @ King:

    There use to be a “Creepy White Guys” blog on Tumblr and it showcased Asian fetishists and their downright racist, objectifying behavior. I was searching for this blog again and it seems to have disappeared. However, someone had an idea to create a new blog on Tumblr titled “Creepy White Guys Part 2”. Not only does this blog show proof of how creepy Asian fetishists can be, but reveals what fetishists of WOC think as well.

    http://creepywhiteguyspart2.tumblr.com/

    And speaking of Return Of Kings, it seems the one responsible for that site also made his loser views known on YouTube.

    Like


  418. I forgot to mention the Return Of Kings loser sounds like some people on this thread. LOL

    Like


  419. Well Leigh204, Kiwi, King, we are all in agreement “Return of Kings” is for creepy loosers.

    Like


  420. That blog or whatever it is should be renamed ‘The Return of the Jacka$$.

    Like


  421. “Creepy” and “loser” are words for “beta” men (i.e., low value in the socio-sexual hierarchy). These words are almost never used against women for this reason (interesting, right?).

    Anyway, I used to buy into the idea that only low status (beta) guys, who couldn’t get white girls, would go for Asian girls. Suffice it to say that my thinking has changed quite a bit.

    Women try to shame white guys for using their options to get a more attractive (overall) girl, especially one that is more traditional and feminine, as if any normal guy would want a domineering, promiscuous white feminazi.

    Instead of recognizing this butt-hurt shaming for what it is, you have guys like Kiwi engaging in similar shaming “…a white guy would definitely have to be a sore loser if he can’t hook up with at least one [American white girl] who’s thin. Since it’s clear the writer was serious, I think he’s a creep.”

    Once you’re aware of this shaming, it’s easy to ignore, since in the end you are getting the higher status women.

    Kiwi is always complaining about how Asian women prefer white dudes over him… well, whining and adapting a beta mentality ain’t gonna win ’em over, bud. Your lack of self-confidence is your kryptonite (to give you an idea, it’s like an extra 100 pounds on an otherwise attractive woman to a man). If you exude the same vibe in real life, that is where you need to begin working to stop repulsing women.

    Like


  422. @ biff

    I can’t tell if you’re trolling. Your comment has me laughing.

    Like


  423. @ biff

    Anyway, I used to buy into the idea that only low status (beta) guys, who couldn’t get white girls, would go for Asian girls.

    The reason I was laughing is that you’re still right.

    Like


  424. Throughout the years there have been quite the number of white men who have expressed an interest in me, but for all the wrong reasons. I can pretty much spot an Asian fetishist a mile away. There’s this vibe (I’d daresay desperate) that they gave out. Of course, it wouldn’t have mattered since my interest have always been Asian men.

    Like


  425. Good video on how Asian women are dehumanized by being exoticized:

    Why Guys Like Asian Girls:
    (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWFQ1uiD8LA)

    Like


  426. ^^^

    If Asian women want to generalize Asian fetish to white men, then maybe they could try, you know, stop dating white guys? But nope, they just want a white guy who doesn’t happen to have Asian fetish.

    Like


  427. I don’t know how many of you guys frequent some of the more feminist/women oriented subreddits but pretty much a lot of women put down White guys that date Asian women saying they are “fetishizing them etc.”
    In fact I see far more Asian women that exclusively date White guys. They all seem to have the same type too, tall, skinny, and kind of nerdy. What’s really odd is that when Asian guys get upset about this or bring it to light, they get called out for being racist. Feeling entitled to women of their own race. Which I agree with completely people are free to date whomever they want.
    But then I see jezebel piece and other feminist oriented places complaining about Black Men that abandon their own women, or Jewish men that are leaving their own women.
    I don’t understand the logic here

    edit – In my experience it isn’t just delegated to articles or a small minority of women. I find tons of Asian women especially that do the same thing. This is a quick recap of a convo at work.

    Asian Woman: I hate it when White guys have an Yellow Fever, I am a person not a race.

    Me: than why don’t you date an Asian guy?

    Asian Woman: Eww no.

    Same woman had a conversation with me later about how the star of Walking Dead is with a White woman, and how it’s odd. And in general when she see’s a successful Asian guy with a White woman she gets pissed.

    Edit 2 – One point I like to extend that is when it comes to famous black celebrities. A lot of black women liked Jay Z because he married Beyonce a fellow black woman. This doesn’t just go on the deep tumblrs and angry feminists places. I have seen discussions like this on CNN MSNBC. It’s often about black guys betraying their own women, marrying someone that doesn’t look like their mom or sister. There are plenty of mainstream articles about how single professional black women don’t have anyone to date. Anecdotally, a lot of the black women also hold contempt for black men that date white women.

    Edit 3 – people often say fetishizing comes down Western men wanting to date a submissive woman etc. Opposite of submissive, is dominant.
    I’d like to address that by saying how often do women claim to want to date a dominant guy. I have often heard Asian women saying guys their own race are too submissive, not authoritative etc. They are pretty much saying that Asians are submissive in general. Yet when a white guy says it, about Asian woman it’s racism etc. When its a woman saying Asian men are submissive no one says anything.

    Source: http://www.reddit.com/r/AskMen/comments/1yw8tc/asian_fetish_vs_white_fetish/

    Like


  428. I’ve already checked out that clip courtesy of Bulanik. Thank you, Bulanik! The woman who posted this video is spot on! I could definitely relate. And the comments coming from white males are hilarious. They’re so defensive.

    Like


  429. In the past, I’ve even had white men question my choice in dating Asian men.

    Like


  430. What do you mean, leigh204? Aren’t Asian men “good” enough? 😀

    You’re welcome, re the vid.
    The responses to it from the white men cracked me up, too…it’s as though it’s never dawned on any of them that their fetish could have anything to do with racism!! LOL.
    Their comments were like a collective “You mean, like, I can’t like Asian chicks…but it’s what I’m attracted to…it’s my preference, man..”

    Like


  431. @ leigh204

    In the past, I’ve even had white men question my choice in dating Asian men.

    I know what you’re talking about. I read a Chinese American girl’s blog and she said she preferred to date Chinese American men. She gave reasons such as cultural similarities, talked fondly about how her parents raised her, and said that she didn’t want to lose that part of her childhood. One of the white male commenters, probably an Asiaphile, got angry at her and asked if she would date a white guy who spoke Chinese, had visited China, and liked Chinese food. It was pathetic to watch. I pitied the poor guy.

    Like


  432. @ leigh204

    In the past, I’ve even had white men question my choice in dating Asian men.

    Such presumption, and entitlement.

    I have sometimes spoken with white men who seemed to believe that Everyone should share their world-view about East (and Southeast) Asian women.
    They are very aware of all of us having to see the world through their lens.
    So, their eagerness to pursue and bed such women based on their Asian-ness alone, seems “Natural” — a completely normal and understandable drive, needing no explanation or justification.

    I remember at least once saying to a white man:
    “But what do you find particularly attractive about this person?”
    because these men couldn’t identify anything that was actually appealing about the individual they pursued, apart from her nationality, or ancestry, or ethnicity — and being looked at like there was something wrong with me for asking…

    *

    Have you had any time to visit the thread called “Interracial Relationships” from last year? Initially it irritated me to see the subject come up AGAIN, because in my head I thought it was going to be another black+white/man+woman discussion, with some focus (too much?) on white men and their relationships with Women of Colour.
    I’ve come to find that subject stale beyone stale. After all, all kinds of inter-racial relationships exist, not just ones that involve white people.
    https://abagond.wordpress.com/2013/10/10/interracial-relationships/#comment-196454

    Kiwi has pointed out that there is a preponderance of white male commenters with Asian wives or girlfriends. Why is that so?
    It seems like a rite of passage for White Manhood or something.
    Do these men even consider their choices as “inter-racial”?

    Like


  433. Me I don’t have that problem; I’m 1/2 Amerindian, 1/4 Black and !/4 Jewish married 23 years to a wonderful Filipina! All ends of my large extended family married women and men from other races and have plenty of mixed race children. Race mixing has been a family trait for generations; it’s good for you!

    Like


  434. @ Bulanik:

    What do you mean, leigh204? Aren’t Asian men “good” enough?

    Oh, they were plenty good enough…good enough for me to marry my love and spend the rest of my life with him. 😎

    @ Kiwi:

    leigh204

    In the past, I’ve even had white men question my choice in dating Asian men.

    I know what you’re talking about. I read a Chinese American girl’s blog and she said she preferred to date Chinese American men. She gave reasons such as cultural similarities, talked fondly about how her parents raised her, and said that she didn’t want to lose that part of her childhood. One of the white male commenters, probably an Asiaphile, got angry at her and asked if she would date a white guy who spoke Chinese, had visited China, and liked Chinese food. It was pathetic to watch. I pitied the poor guy.

    Interestingly enough, my husband and I don’t come from the same background. As I’ve mentioned here and there on Abagond’s blog, I’ve dated men of different Asian ethnicities. My husband is Korean and I’m Filipino. While there may be differences in our respective cultures, my husband and I clicked because we have so much in common. There’s no need to explain things if we married non-Asian people. We simply understood one another.

    Like


  435. Speaking of Asian fetish, some white person left a message attacking my looks and my husband because he dated Asian women. This is what I mean by defensive. Hahahahaha! Get a life, dude. 😀

    Like


  436. @Leigh204

    I am sorry to hear that someone made fun of your looks and your husband. People are very cruel online. Anyways I looked at your picture and I think you look quite pretty. Don’t listen to naysayers. I had this happen to me as well.

    I always wondered why White men love Asian women so much? I see many of them with Asian women too. I was listening to Deep Purple’s My Woman From Tokyo and it made me happy and sad at the same time. I really like the song, don’t get me wrong but it made me sad because Deep Purple didn’t write a song about Jamaican women….I was like damn! Is dating an Asian American woman like you more socially acceptable for a White man than dating a Jamaican American woman like me? If so, is that why so many of White men date Asian women?

    I hope you don’t take offense to my questions. I am just curious.

    Like


  437. @ Leigh204

    Speaking of Asian fetish, some white person left a message attacking my looks and my husband because he dated Asian women. This is what I mean by defensive. Hahahahaha! Get a life, dude.

    Omg, that’s foul. Personal attacks again. What a disgusting character.
    This tells you everything about the inner life — or lack thereof — of a person who would feel the overwhelming need to stoop to that onlline.

    YOU MUST HAVE STRUCK A NERVE.

    Clearly, there are white men out there who believe they are entitled to Asian women, and feel entitled to personally attack any Asian woman that loves, marries or finds Asian men attractive.

    Like


  438. @ Adeen

    Is dating an Asian [Canadian] woman like you more socially acceptable for a White man than dating a Jamaican American woman like me?

    I know you were asking leigh, but I thought I might share. I get the impression from the white members of my family that they do not like blacks as much as they do Asians. For whites in general, I get this feeling as well. I think this has to do with the Model Minority stereotype. For this reason, there are three times as many white men with Asian women than white men with black women, even though there are three times as many black women than Asian women in the US. That’s almost a ten-fold disparity. White men think that dating Asian women makes them not racist, though ironically, many of them will not date a black woman. I think you already know about the stereotypes of blacks being hypermasculine and Asians being hyperfeminine and how that affects the way whites see race and sex.

    Like


  439. @ Adeen

    Another reason is that Asian women are a lot more interested in white men than black women are, just as black men are a lot more interested in white women than Asian men are. Again, this is due to stereotypes, which leads to internalized racism.

    Like


  440. @Kiwi,

    Yes I was asking Leigh but I am glad you answered my question. As a Black woman of Jamaican heritage, I am interested in dating outside of my race particularly White men and I USED to wonder why White men didn’t date Black women as much. I do think stereotypes such the oversexed Jezebel, Sapphire, loud, bad attitudes, etc plays a role in why many White American men don’t date Black women. Also the majority of African American women,well at least the ones I know, aren’t interested in dating non Black men particularly White men. And many African American women’s disinterest in White men ruin it for other Black women like me who are interested in dating White and other non Black men.

    And you are right about Asian women being seen as feminine and showing interest in White men. And Blacks being seen as hyper masculine. Your points are right.

    Like


  441. @ Adeen:

    @Leigh204

    I am sorry to hear that someone made fun of your looks and your husband. People are very cruel online. Anyways I looked at your picture and I think you look quite pretty. Don’t listen to naysayers. I had this happen to me as well.

    Thank you, Adeen. I posted my picture so I’m not surprised someone who strongly disagreed with me would act this way. In fact, I’m actually quite amused. 😀 This anonymous person read what I posted on here and he sent me a couple, not one, A COUPLE of long-winded diatribes. He wrote that I was a bitter, Asian woman who couldn’t get a white guy and my husband is a loser for marrying someone out of his ethnic background. It’s quite telling. The way he carried on and on only confirmed what Bulanik mentioned earlier. I must’ve hit a nerve. I did, indeed. LOL!

    Is dating an Asian American woman like you more socially acceptable for a White man than dating a Jamaican American woman like me? If so, is that why so many of White men date Asian women?

    I hope you don’t take offense to my questions. I am just curious.

    Oh, I’m not offended at all. 😎 Kiwi made an interesting point about the model minority stereotype. It’s like this. If a white man had to choose, he will more than likely choose an Asian-American woman. I guess you can call it their “good” reputation, if you will. And I agree with another comment Kiwi made. A white man who dates Asian women, but not Black women is definitely a racist.

    @ Bulanik:

    Omg, that’s foul. Personal attacks again. What a disgusting character.
    This tells you everything about the inner life — or lack thereof — of a person who would feel the overwhelming need to stoop to that onlline.

    YOU MUST HAVE STRUCK A NERVE.

    Clearly, there are white men out there who believe they are entitled to Asian women, and feel entitled to personally attack any Asian woman that loves, marries or finds Asian men attractive.

    If these certain white men felt the way they do about Asian women then why would they care what others have to say? It’s obvious what we’ve said on here about people particularly white people with an Asian fetish hits close to home. 🙂

    Like


  442. @Leigh203

    Thanks for the response. I appreciated it. I asked the question because I am interested in dating outside of my race. The model minority stereotype and Asian women seen as feminine makes it easier for them to date White men. The stereotypes of Black women being hypermasculine, ghetto and loud does play a role in keeping White men from dating Black women in the West. Also many of them aren’t attracted to Black girls or they fear what people would think IF they are interested in dating a Black girl.

    I know this is a little off topic but true.

    Like


  443. @ Adeen:

    I’ve read a lot of your posts and I can clearly see you’re a very intelligent, well-spoken, determined, dignified, young woman. Any man, regardless of race, would be blessed to have you by his side. If a white man is afraid of what others might think if he dated a Black girl then he is not the man for you. You deserve a man who’s not a spineless coward.

    Like


  444. I found this short film clip about Asian Fetishism gone awry.

    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWxVj8KVUTg)

    Like


  445. Wow, Leigh, thank you for sharing that.

    Interesting, but really gruesome unresolved ending.

    I also find it interesting that her confidant was a Eurasian looking male. Assuming that he was Eurasian, I wonder if such an interaction might actually be enlightening too. For Eurasian men who grew up with one white parent who was overcome with an Asian Fetish to the point that he got sick of such activity between his parents, maybe he mght be able to understand the effect of Asian Fetish even better than both White and Asian men who did not grow up with it.

    In fact, it might explain why many divorce later.

    Like


  446. I hate to say it, but based on what I’ve seen, the attraction really goes a lot more strongly the other way. I’ve never actually seen a white man interact with Asian women at that level of creepiness. But I have seen Asian women who clearly had “white fetish” interact with white men, even those not interested, in a manner that made the guy uncomfortable. It really says something when the same women were not as warm towards me, an Asian male.

    In reality, the vast majority of Asian women who hook up with white men are not with the all out creeps. Instead, most white men and Asian women who date are more likely to have unexamined racial prejudices that they refuse to face up to. For example, a white man might think dating Asian women makes him not racist, but he will not date black women. Similarly, an Asian woman might think dating white men makes her not racist, yet she will not date Asian men or black men.

    I think what frustrates many Asian men when they’re told about Asian fetish is an issue of priorities. Which is worse? The 5% of white men who have Asian fetish or the 95% of white women who will not date Asian men? Not to mention the large numbers of Asian women who will not date Asian men, either. Asian men would feel more sympathetic about Asian fetish if Asian women didn’t date white men so ridiculously often. It comes off as hypocritical when the same group that laments others’ racism won’t own up to their own. You can’t have it both ways.

    Like


  447. Yep, sure it goes both ways, but the post was about white men who seem to have an Asian fetish.

    We probably need a post about Asian women who exclusively go after white men. But that is not called a “fetish” as going after white men is seen as the norm. It is still worth analyzing.

    Even if we can observe and substantiate both sides of the equation, that does not explain how we got here. That probably deserves another post itself.

    Before the mid 1960s, it was more common to see Asian American men date and marry white women than Asian American women marrying white men (not that it was ever that common). Prior to the mid 1960s, Asian women who married white men were almost all war brides with no family in the USA. But by the mid 1970s, the situation had already reversed.

    Before the late 1960s, we can explain that it was due to the gender imbalance, but was restricted by the anti-miscegenation laws in many states. There were not nearly enough Asian American women available to marry Asian American men. Half of the men, if they wanted to marry an Asian woman, would have had to go to Asia to get one. Before the repeal of the Exclusion Acts, that was exceedingly difficult.

    But by the 1970s, when the gender ratio started to level out, Asian American women started to date and marry white men in droves. By 1980, we were already discussing the phenomenon of Asian women breaking up with their Asian boyfriend to date a white guy, or even marry one.

    I have some of my own theories.

    Just wondering, have you seen “Eat a Bowl of Tea” or read the book? It gives you an idea of what Asian American communities were like right after WWII. Women were few and far between.

    Like


  448. Creepywhiteguys blog expose them. Asian men explain to me about this scam. WM go to undeveloped areas and showgirl site to grab a girl. I think there’s a documentary based on asian fetish

    Like


  449. The reason why I posted the short video clip a few comments ago is because I have personally experienced unwanted touches by white males. In the past, when I’ve been approached by white males, I’ve had my hair stroked and my back caressed. One was so bold as to place his hand on my thigh like the Asian woman sitting with her friends at the picnic table in that video. It’s downright unsettling when a white man, hell, any man thinks he can touch you without your consent.

    Like


  450. I have a question for Kiwi, and Jefe. You guys are quite vocal about your thoughts regarding the AW/WM disparity especially Kiwi and I’m wondering if you’ve ever had white males send you PMs saying you are a bitter, Asian man? A few years ago, I was on another site made up of predominantly Asians and there was this white male commenter there who left me an angry message because I voiced my opinion regarding white men and their Asian fetish. He called me an ugly, jealous slut. It’s good to know I can raise a fetishist’s hackles. And to the guy who went on my blog earlier to call me names, I’m sure you’re reading this, UP YOURS. 😀

    Like


  451. white “men” are pathetic beyond reason. No other group of “men” do the following:

    1. weaponize their entire entertainment, literature, and news industries to spread lies about Asian men while trying to own Asian women.

    2. Stop any attempts to speak the TRUTH – not spread lies, but the truth about their creepy behavior whitewatch.info and creepywhiteguys.tumblr.com – both taken down by these spineless cowards.

    3. Be shocked when Asian females choose Asian men over white “men”

    4. Call the same Asian females they love and respect chink whores who should get raped when their deranged advances are rejected.

    5. Be the same group of “men” that wage war on non-whites for over five centuries to rape, slaughter, steal, and brainwash.

    6. whitewash their histories to cover up their demonic crimes

    7. Finally, tells you a “white” god loves you….

    Like


  452. @ pumpkin:

    I was practically yelling at my computer monitor, “NO, NO, DON’T GO WITH HIM!” Even though this was only acting, the white guy did a good job of playing a creepy. I was also surprised by the ending.

    Like


  453. *creep.

    Like


  454. @ leigh204

    No PMs, but the Internet has taught me a lot of the stuff white people say about Asian men when we’re not around. What I found most eye-opening was not that they are saying it, but that many of them are likely thinking it, including the whites we deal with on a day to day basis. This affects many Asians in jobs, housing, and interpersonal relationships.

    Just because a white guy isn’t calling me a “ch!nk with a small d!ck” doesn’t mean he’s not thinking it. Many of these white men also sleep with Asian women, unsurprisingly, and many of the Asian women they screw share the same views as them.

    Like


  455. @ Kiwi:

    No PMs whatsoever? Nothing? Wow. I’ve had a few PMs sent to me throughout the years and it’s always the same thing. These men particularly white men let loose their vitriol because I DARE to speak my mind and call them out on their fetishism.

    I’ll tell you what’s interesting. I know there are some non-white men out there who also have a fetish for Asian women. However, every single PM I’ve received have ALL been sent by white men. How do I know this? They admit they’re white. They could very well be lying, but who else would get upset by my comments except for them!

    Like


  456. With experience, you can learn to sometimes tell if a white man has Asian fetish. Recently, I was out with one of my cousins and his wife. I saw a middle-aged white male some distance off and I noticed that he was staring at my cousin’s wife, scanning her body up and down. You could see the glint in his eyes, quite unlike how men normally look at women.

    What I have discovered over time is that white men tend not to interact with Asian women the same way that they do with white women. Around Asian women, white men seem to be bolder, less inhibited, and more assertive than they are with white women. Also, many white men who are with an Asian female partner seem to feel threatened when in the presence of Asian men.

    I suppose white men’s attitudes towards Asian women with respect to Asian men in large part account for the disparate media representation of Asian men and women. Asian women are objects of desire, but Asian men are objects of repulsion. Most importantly, the media reinforces how white men treat the two sexes of the same race differently.

    Like


  457. On the blog, Stuff White People Like, “Asian Girls” is listed as number 11 and has a whopping 23,000 comments.

    http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2008/01/20/11-asian-girls/

    “Asian Guys” and “Black Girls” are not even on the list. White men like Asian women but they dislike Asian men. White men also date Asian women but they will not date black women, even though ironically, black women are more common.

    Like


  458. @ Kiwi

    I totally agree. White men will date or marry an Asian, Latina or Polynesian woman before dating or marrying a black woman.

    White men view all women of color as “exotic” women. In terms of white men’s fetish for women of color, white men will go through great depths to date and/or marry an Asian woman. That means living on an online Asian matchmaking site or taking the next flight to East Asia. Polynesian women are second to Asian women when comes to seeking an “exotic” lifetime partner.

    Oh, by the way, a small article comes to mind on white men’s “yellow fever” mindset. After reading the article it told me that white men are in total competition with white women who have a well-known fetish for black men. In the white collective psyche everything is based on a win-lose hierarchy.

    http://www.wvwnews.net/story.php?id=10694

    Like


  459. @ Michael Cooper

    Thanks for the link. What I’ve noticed is that white men who go crazy over Asian women often have a very different attitude towards Asian men. I’ve met white men who only dated Asian women but treated me, an Asian male, very differently than how they treated other white men. I think this says something about their motives.

    Like


  460. @ Kiwi

    I’ve noticed white men different attitude towards Asian men as well. It’s that “I got your Asian woman, so I’ve defeated you” attitude. Again, it’s the traditional win-lose hierarchy mindset of white men.

    Interestingly, I train most of my clients in the nice climatic outdoors of California (at local parks or beaches). At a park where I train my two female Asian clients they attract a lot of white male onlookers. (The park is in predominantly white neighborhood.) But, at the same time, I noticed white men give me the “what is this N#%@er doing with these Asian women” look. It’s the same look white men gave black men during the late Jim Crow era of the 1950s and 60s. I just laugh.

    Like


  461. @ Michael Cooper

    That is sad to hear. Even Asian men with Asian women get that attitude from white men. White men seem to have a sense of ownership over Asian women. Once, I was out with my brother and his girlfriend. When they were kissing, I noticed a white man across the street glaring at them as if he was so disgusted that an Asian woman was being intimate with an Asian man instead of him. I think American culture instills a sense of entitlement in white men and that entitlement entails ownership of women from other races. Slave rape comes to mind.

    You can also imagine how white men feel about nonwhite men taking “their” women. Sometimes I get disgusted looks from white men when I’m seen talking to a white woman. Strangely, people see white men with Asian women all the time but no one ever so much as bats an eye.

    Like


  462. You’re definitely right, Kiwi.

    When these insecure white guys see me conversing to white women (be it in the gym, work or simply in public) they feel so threatened (and I know why). But, as always, these cowards keep their insecure and racist thoughts to themselves.

    Like


  463. Randy and biff are both white men who married Asian women.

    Here:

    https://abagond.wordpress.com/2009/05/25/asian-fetish/#comment-91009

    Randy said:

    I married an asian woman who had no interest in dating within her ethnicity. Her reason? Traditional asian cultures are heavily patriarchal, and women are often treated poorly. Husbands tend towards drinking and philandering without assisting in the domestic arena. White guys are viewed as favoring more equal relationships.

    But here:

    https://abagond.wordpress.com/2009/05/25/asian-fetish/#comment-241669

    biff said:

    Asian girls tend to be a lot less plump than white girls. That is a huge plus. They also tend to be flatter, which is negative for most (but not all white guys). Overall, the primary advantage is more that Asian girls may be more feminine/traditional. Asian American girls who have become as feminist and promiscuous as their white counterparts are just disgusting.

    $lut, and wh*re are code words for low value women

    So here we have Randy, a white guy, saying that Asian women date white men because they’re feminist and support gender equality, unlike Asian men. Yet on the same exact thread, we have biff, another white guy who dates Asian women – but because they support traditional gender roles and are not feminist. To boot, biff refers to women as “sluts” and “whores”, which must be due to his gender egalitarian upbringing in the West, according to Randy.

    The irony is delicious.

    Like


  464. Randy and biff are both white men who married Asian women.

    Here:

    https://abagond.wordpress.com/2009/05/25/asian-fetish/#comment-91009

    Randy said:

    I married an asian woman who had no interest in dating within her ethnicity. Her reason? Traditional asian cultures are heavily patriarchal, and women are often treated poorly. Husbands tend towards drinking and philandering without assisting in the domestic arena. White guys are viewed as favoring more equal relationships.

    But here:

    https://abagond.wordpress.com/2009/05/25/asian-fetish/#comment-241669

    biff said:

    Asian girls tend to be a lot less plump than white girls. That is a huge plus. They also tend to be flatter, which is negative for most (but not all white guys). Overall, the primary advantage is more that Asian girls may be more feminine/traditional. Asian American girls who have become as feminist and promiscuous as their white counterparts are just disgusting.

    $lut, and wh*re are code words for low value women

    So here we have Randy, a white guy, saying that Asian women date white men because they’re feminist and support gender equality, unlike Asian men. Yet on the same exact thread, we have biff, another white guy who dates Asian women – but because they support traditional gender roles and are not feminist. To boot, biff refers to women as “sluts” and “whores”, which must be due to his gender egalitarian upbringing in the West, according to Randy.

    The irony is delicious.

    Like


  465. the key there is ‘low value woman’ — more PUA cant.

    Like


  466. Some of Western Man use Asian Eetish for four reason-Lonely,Conquest,Increase their Superior Complex and Otaku. I overheard three wm talking about asian women like easy sluts. One Man Quote-The ride in the little yellow cab was boring and long. Aleast I don’t need pay for a fare.

    Like


  467. @ Moanika

    I think in the case of Randy and biff, they married Asian women because it feeds their racial superiority complex. Many Asian women in the US and in Asia have a strong racial preference for white men, which reinforces their sense of white male superiority. This is largely due to Asians perceiving whites as being of higher status, which is a result of American media and economic power.

    White men, being how they are, get a huge ego boost from the special attention Asian women give them. Many white men travel to Asia specifically to seek out this attention. This is an example of how white male privilege extends into countries where whites are not even the majority. The fact that black men in Asia do not receive the attention that white men get from Asian women shows that this preference is racial, not just economic.

    Randy’s wife and biff’s wife specifically sought out white men as partners despite both of them having grown up in countries where 99.99% of the men are Asian. While white men have an easier time with Asian women in the US and in Asia, Asian American men have to put up with large numbers of Asian American women who only date white men in addition to having a harder time dating out of their race because of negative media stereotypes. Many Asian women who date Asian men do so because they have no other choice.

    Like


  468. @ Kiwi:

    Many Asian women who date Asian men do so because they have no other choice.

    This is news to me considering I’m one of the many Asian women who dated and married Asian men because we wanted to. On Abagond’s blog, I have always maintained I preferred to be with Asian men from the getgo. I guess I’ll have to inform my husband. I’ll tell him, “Hey honey. I’m so sorry I dated and married you because I really had no other option.”

    Like


  469. @ leigh204

    I based my statement on what an Asian woman who grew up in a white neighborhood told me. In her hometown, the prettier Asian women are able to snag white men while the lower quality ones wind up stuck with Asian men. Some of the Asian women who married Asian men did so because their families pressured them to. According to her, these women would have gone for white men if given the chance.

    She also said her brother thinks Asian men are hated by pretty much everyone, both white people and Asian women. Where she’s from, Asian men are unpopular, low status, and ugly, which is why nobody wants to date them. I’ve personally known plenty of Asian women from my area who only dated white men, yet they grew up around mostly Asian men.

    It’s all about power, and white men will always be better than Asian men.

    Like


  470. @ Kiwi:

    @ leigh204

    I based my statement on what an Asian woman who grew up in a white neighborhood told me. In her hometown, the prettier Asian women are able to snag white men while the lower quality ones wind up stuck with Asian men.

    So what this Asian woman said is gospel? And what exactly are you implying? Hmm?

    Some of the Asian women who married Asian men did so because their families pressured them to. According to her, these women would have gone for white men if given the chance.

    Well, she doesn’t speak for these Asian women. It’s ridiculous.

    She also said her brother thinks Asian men are hated by pretty much everyone, both white people and Asian women. Where she’s from, Asian men are unpopular, low status, and ugly, which is why nobody wants to date them. I’ve personally known plenty of Asian women from my area who only dated white men, yet they grew up around mostly Asian men.

    It’s all about power, and white men will always be better than Asian men.

    Seriously, Kiwi? I think it’s admirable you stick up for Asian men and rightfully so, but now you’re just adding insult to injury. That woman you talked to is full of it. Not everyone thinks less of Asian men. Not everyone believes Asian men aren’t good enough. Not everyone wants to be with white men. My gosh, there are no words to the bullsh!t I’m reading.

    Like


  471. Abagond, please fix my quote if possible.

    Like


  472. To flip the script, how about this:

    I based my statement on what an Asian black woman who grew up in a white neighborhood told me. In her hometown, the prettier Asian black women are able to snag white men while the lower quality ones wind up stuck with Asian black men.

    Like


  473. Abagond, I screwed up on the strike out text for Asian. Please help me out here.

    Like


  474. Kiwi,

    Maybe you should switch to a different school for a while – in a different geographical area. You haven’t been to the East Coast or to the South yet, right? Or maybe spend a half a year in Asia. Anything to broaden your perspective and to get you in contact with other kinds of people.

    It almost seems like you are seeking out those very people who confirm your viewpoint. You don’t have to hang around those people.

    Like


  475. I do see a lot of White male/Asian female couples, but on the other hand, I personally know of many Asian females who are dating or are married to Asian males also. It is simply a matter of the Asian female’s preference, and it is wrong and ignorant to generalize that Asian females will always choose White over Asian males.

    Like


  476. @ Kiwi

    Kiwi said, “I based my statement on what an Asian woman who grew up in a white neighborhood told me. In her hometown, the prettier Asian women are able to snag white men while the lower quality ones wind up stuck with Asian men. Some of the Asian women who married Asian men did so because their families pressured them to. According to her, these women would have gone for white men if given the chance.”

    I think what this Asian woman told you is baloney. You cannot generalize that all people will behave a certain way.

    Kiwi said, “She also said her brother thinks Asian men are hated by pretty much everyone, both white people and Asian women. Where she’s from, Asian men are unpopular, low status, and ugly, which is why nobody wants to date them. I’ve personally known plenty of Asian women from my area who only dated white men, yet they grew up around mostly Asian men.”

    Her brother’s interaction with Whites is sad and unfortunate, but not surprising. Male chauvanism and egotestical pride is very common in White male culture, and unfortunately, some Asian females find this to be attractive.

    Kiwiw said, “It’s all about power, and white men will always be better than Asian men.”

    Wow, someone really beat you with the Loser stick, Kiwi. No one is better than anyone else. They can only ride your back, if your back is bent. Stand up straight and be free.

    Like


  477. There’s a lot of White male/Asian female couples, but that’s because we live in a predominantly White society, the USA, and minority females will prefer to date/marry upward into society, even if that would require marrying outside of her race. And White males, being the horny bastards that they are, are more than willing to hook up with any pretty, young thing that shows up at their door.
    Whereas, it’s slim pickings for the Asian males, unless they are high up the social ladder themselves.

    Like


  478. @ Shazaam

    Whereas, it’s slim pickings for the Asian males, unless they are high up the social ladder themselves.

    Many white men think they’re better than black or Hispanic men supposedly because they’re higher earners, more educated, and can provide for their families. But following their reasoning, Asian men should be regarded as “better” than white men because they outperform them in metrics like education and income. Instead, the exact opposite is true. White men are widely considered higher status than Asian men. Not only that, many women of all races are repulsed by Asian men.

    This is how I know white men do not truly believe in measures of merit, like success in school or work, as proof of superiority. What they believe in is white male supremacy.

    Like


  479. @ Kiwi,

    Kiwi said, “But following their reasoning, Asian men should be regarded as “better” than white men because they outperform them in metrics like education and income. Instead, the exact opposite is true. White men are widely considered higher status than Asian men.”

    From what I am seeing, it is true that Asian men have been quickly climbing the American social ladder in recent years, and in turn, I’ve noticed many of these upward mobile Asian men dating/marrying Asian females and even White females. I expect there will be a noticeable shift where the imbalance of White males with Asian females will shift back to a lower number of White male/Asian female couples, and more towards an Asian male/Asian female ratio as successful Asian males become more and more available.

    I find it hard to believe that a person would want to be with someone simply because of skin color.

    Kiwi said, “White men are widely considered higher status than Asian men. Not only that, many women of all races are repulsed by Asian men.”

    I don’t consider White men to have higher status than any other men. I know women who have dated/married Asian men. They were never repulsed.

    Kwiwi said, “This is how I know white men do not truly believe in measures of merit, like success in school or work, as proof of superiority. What they believe in is white male supremacy.”

    They can believe whatever the bleep they want.

    Like


  480. @ Shazaam

    I expect there will be a noticeable shift where the imbalance of White males with Asian females will shift back to a lower number of White male/Asian female couples, and more towards an Asian male/Asian female ratio as successful Asian males become more and more available.

    I think this is mainly due to demographic changes as Asians become more populous in the US, not because Asian men are experiencing any significant rise in status. Many Asian women who married Asian men “settled” for them when they grew tired of dating white men who had Asian fetish.

    I find it hard to believe that a person would want to be with someone simply because of skin color.

    I do not. The white men that I see with Asian women very often tend to be well below average in attractiveness. While some probably have good personalities, I doubt they are that spectacular. So I am forced to reason that their whiteness is in large part what draws Asian women to them. Many of the comments on this thread are a case in point.

    I know women who have dated/married Asian men. They were never repulsed.

    I know Asian women who have never dated Asian men and never will. One of them said she thinks Asian men are “ugly” and “disgusting”. She is my aunt.

    Like


  481. @ Kiwi,

    Kiwi said, “Many Asian women who married Asian men “settled” for them when they grew tired of dating white men who had Asian fetish.”

    The Asian women whom I know who married Asian men did not “settle”, but rather preferred their Asian husbands over White men. Again, it is a matter of the women’s preference, not skin color.

    Kiwi said, “I do not. The white men that I see with Asian women very often tend to be well below average in attractiveness. While some probably have good personalities, I doubt they are that spectacular. So I am forced to reason that their whiteness is in large part what draws Asian women to them.”

    I do see what you describe too. But, I again I say it is because the Asian women is looking to move up the social/economic ladder, and her “not so attractive” husband had that quality of upward mobility that she was looking for. He may not be wealthy, but still higher in social/economic status than her, and “better” than any Asian male available at the time. A lot of the “unattractive” White men/Asian women couples I see is where the men are military GI’s and the women are from a poor SE Asian country. In that case, the women are usually looking to become American citizens.

    Kiwiw said, “I know Asian women who have never dated Asian men and never will. One of them said she thinks Asian men are “ugly” and “disgusting”. She is my aunt.”

    Maybe your aunt is ugly and disgusting, that’s why.

    Like


  482. @ Shazaam

    You said:

    The Asian women whom I know who married Asian men did not “settle”, but rather preferred their Asian husbands over White men.

    Article:

    Ann Liu, 33, a Taiwanese-American human resources coordinator in San Francisco, had a similar experience. She never imagined that an Asian-American husband was in the cards. Because she had never dated an Asian man before, her friends tried to discourage Stephen Arboleda, a Filipino-American engineer, when he asked whether she was single. “She only dates white guys,” they warned.

    But Mr. Arboleda, 33, was undeterred. “I’m going to change that,” he told them.

    By then, Ms. Liu was ready for a change. She said she had grown increasingly uncomfortable with dating white men who dated only Asian-American women. “It’s like they have an Asian fetish,” she said. “I felt like I was more like this ‘concept.’ They couldn’t really understand me as a person completely.”

    Source:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/01/fashion/more-asian-americans-marrying-within-their-race.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

    Apparently, Ann Liu only dated Asian men after she grew tired of dating white men who had Asian fetish, despite herself having “white fetish”. Does that mean she prefers Asian men?

    You said:

    I say it is because the Asian women is looking to move up the social/economic ladder

    I agree about moving up the social ladder. White men have more social value than Asian men. But I disagree about moving up the economic ladder. White men are always patting Asian men on the head for working hard, studying hard, and being the “good” model minority who makes more money and has more education than even white men. If climbing up the economic ladder were the explanation, women of all races would be lining up to date Asian men, not white men. But that’s not the case.

    Like


  483. Look Kiwi, what do you want? You want to be a loser, go ahead. You have to get what you want on your own.

    Like


  484. I could be silent and not care like most Asian men and even be with any girl I want right now, but if I don’t speak up for Asian men, no one else will. Posting on this blog is a part of that.

    Like


  485. I showed my husband the Asian fetish thread and he was amused by some of the comments. He told me he always knew my devotion to Asian men by my actions. God, I love this man! ❤

    Like


  486. 2 thumbs up for you and your husband. Another example of what makes Kiwi frustrated – ie, an Asian woman who loves her Asian husband. Is it so wrong for an Asian woman to love an Asian man nowadays? Is it so shocking?

    Like


  487. In some parts of the country, it’s considered a revolutionary act for an Asian woman to date an Asian man. Asian women are assumed to only like white men by default. Asian women who publicly profess a preference for Asian men are ridiculed and told that they’re due for an “upgrade”.

    Like


  488. Kiwi, you need to switch schools to another geographical part of the country (suggest East Coast), or even leave the USA altogether. You spent a short time in Europe, how about Asia next time?

    I also think you should take a course or two in Asian American history too. I know you read a lot of blogs and online articles, but you really need to research more deeply into this topic you got fixated on.

    Like


  489. Kiwi, I have professed my love for Asian men and I have been ridiculed by white men for my choice. They say I need to be with REAL men. However, since when do I care what white men with Asian fetishes think or even what anyone else thinks? I’m not living to please others. I’m living my life the way I want to and some people just can’t handle that.

    Like


  490. @Leigh

    However, since when do I care what white men with Asian fetishes think or even what anyone else thinks?

    I hope Kiwi read that.

    Like


  491. @ Jefe:

    I hope so, too, for his sake.

    Like


  492. @ Shazaam:

    2 thumbs up for you and your husband. Another example of what makes Kiwi frustrated – ie, an Asian woman who loves her Asian husband.

    Thank you! I am so blessed to have someone as wonderful as my husband. He’s pretty special. ❤

    Is it so wrong for an Asian woman to love an Asian man nowadays? Is it so shocking?

    No, it’s not wrong for an Asian woman to love an Asian man. Maybe it’s shocking for some because they can’t believe Asian women could adore Asian men when there are white men around.

    Like


  493. Ideologies separate us….dreams and anguish bring us together.

    Like


  494. Creepy Things People Say to Asian Women. Uh huh.

    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8WStQ0CrMU)

    Like


  495. I have a question: Is the “Asian fetish” a pure American phenomenon or is it encountered in other “white” countries as well? I don’t think it’s a “thing” in Germany, at least I haven’t heared about it before I read about it in an American context.

    Like


  496. @ Kartoffel

    I never really noticed Asian fetish in France, either. Are there many white male/Asian female couples in Europe? More specifically, is it significantly more common than its converse, Asian male/white female couples? From what I’ve read and heard, Asian men are not desexualized and Asian women are not fetishized in Europe the way they are in places that speak English.

    I know that the Asian interracial disparity and Asian fetish is common in Anglophone countries like the US, Canada, the UK, Ireland, Australia, and New Zealand. I think it originally comes from some of these countries waging wars in East Asia and Southeast Asia and sharing media in the same language.

    I also know that in Brazil, the disparity is reversed. It is more common for Asian men to be in interracial relationships than it is for Asian women while Asian fetish is practically nonexistent there.

    Like


  497. “Are there many white male/Asian female couples in Europe?”

    I have no idea. At least in the geman media East Asian people in Germany are never discussed. South East Asian women are sometimes depicted as “mail order brides”, but personally I only enconterd one WM/AF couple, and that guy lived in the Phillipines for decades.

    Like


  498. @ Kartoffel

    Thank you for your reply. In the US, I feel that there is an atmosphere in which Asian men are denigrated or looked down on for being both Asian and male. In France, however, it felt more like people were hostile towards me simply for being Asian. I did not get the vibe that anyone looked down on me for being Asian and male. I could be wrong, though…

    From what I’ve read and seen, Eastern European women seem to be receptive towards and even prize East Asian males in a way that you would never see in the US or an English-speaking country. This is how I know the stereotypes are not true and that the media is a key player.

    Like


  499. Now this shouldn’t surprise anybody. It’s an age old tactic for certain powerful members of the dominant white race to denigrate non-white men, enslave non-white men, brutalize non-white men but screw the pants out of non-white women spawning litters of mulattos (like me) in their wake. We blacks call that ‘Plantation Politics.’ Read books on slavery, ‘Hawaii Pono,’ and other books and articles on the subject.

    Like


  500. It’s interesting. From time to time, my husband will make first impressions of the different types of WM/AF couples. For example, when he sees a not so particularly attractive and/or old WM who is well dressed with an attractive AF, he assumes the guy is probably rich and the woman is likely a gold digger/status seeker. Another example is if an AF is not considered pretty by Asian standards and she’s with a WM, it may mean Asian men aren’t interested in her because they don’t find her attractive. Please note these are mere conjectures. My husband says he doesn’t know these people, but that’s the vibe they seem to give off. I admit when I see a much older WM with a really young AF, I think mail order bride. And I say this only because I personally knew a couple of mail order brides. From my experience, I’ve known a lot of WM/AF couplings and there have been a select few, imho, which didn’t give me this Asian fetish feel.

    Like


  501. I think a lot of it has to do with how the US military set up it’s bases in certain Asian/SE Asian countries, bringing American GI’s and American power to those poor countries and with their presence, tempting the local Asian females to date the American GI’s in hopes of marrying into a better life in America. The American GI dates an Asian hottie, then he brings her and her family over to the US after they get hitched, and there you have it.

    The White husband / Asian wife couple seems to be the easiest pairing since the husband is expected to be the one in charge. A White wife and Asian husband (from Asia) just wouldn’t seem right living in America, with the husband having language difficulties etc. And seeing how perverted and horny bunch of dogs White males tend to be, it’s not surprising they end up impregnating and marrying any Asian lady that rubs up against them.

    Like


  502. But how come that same logic wouldn’t work with any male who couldn’t speak the language though??

    “An American wife and German husband (from Germany) just wouldn’t seem right living in America, with the husband having language difficulties etc. “

    Like


  503. @Shazaam

    The White husband / Asian wife couple seems to be the easiest pairing since the husband is expected to be the one in charge. A White wife and Asian husband (from Asia) just wouldn’t seem right living in America, with the husband having language difficulties etc.

    The majority of Asian men in the USA were educated, at least partially or fully, in the USA, 1/3 were born in the USA and 1/3 immigrated as children. Language difficulties should not be a major issue for the majority.

    Also, the white woman might have learned to speak and understand the relevant Asian languages. There are many of them too.

    But even if it were, as King said, why would a white woman married to an Asian man from Asia be any more difficult because of “language difficulties” than a white woman married to a European non-native English speaking man?

    Of course we all know the answer. The reason it “doesn’t seem right in America” has nothing to do with language difficulties.

    Like


  504. @Kartoffel

    I have a question: Is the “Asian fetish” a pure American phenomenon or is it encountered in other “white” countries as well?

    It seems to be prevalent in the UK and rampant in Australia.

    And it is common among white men who settle in Asia. Some would even split with their white girlfriend or wife to hook up with their newly found “tastes”.

    Did not notice it so much in Brazil.

    And in France, I agree with Kiwi that AM/WF pairings are also common.

    Maybe we see this fetish more in Anglo countries as
    – they have more immigrants, esp. from Asia
    – White Anglo males see themselves in domination mode, or as white saviours, or feel more inadequate among white women.
    – White Anglo females do not seem attracted to Asian males, even if their boyfriends/husbands leave them for Asian women. Even in Asia, when an Asian male marries or dates white women, you may see more from Eastern Europe or Russia.

    Like


  505. Most interracial marriages between Russians and Chinese involve a Chinese husband and a Russian wife. The former president of Taiwan, Chiang Ching-kuo, and First Lady, Chiang Fang-liang, are a famous example.

    Like


  506. Here’s my question. Do you guys automatically think asian fetish when you see an WM/AF couple at first sight? How about an AM/WF?

    Like


  507. I try not to assume Asian Fetish on first sight. But once you know them better, you can usually tell if Asian Fetish was a factor. And *some* white women do have Asian Fetish at some point in their lives.

    Like


  508. Do you guys automatically think asian fetish when you see an WM/AF couple at first sight?

    No. I roll my eyes, let out an exasperated sigh, and think to myself “Here we go again.”

    How about an AM/WF?

    No. Asian men are not subject to any fetish.

    Like


  509. @ jefe

    Maybe we see this fetish more in Anglo countries as…

    …the world has been ruled successively by the British Empire and the American Empire for the last 200 years.

    East meets West. Occident dominates Orient. Man conquers woman. Elliot Rodger’s father was British aristocracy and his mother was Chinese coolie descent. Coincidence?

    The Empire of Japan was the only modern power in Asia that posed a threat to Western powers. When it was vanquished, Asia had essentially been castrated.

    Like


  510. Jefe said, “White Anglo females do not seem attracted to Asian males, even if their boyfriends/husbands leave them for Asian women.”

    It seems almost shocking to see a White Anglo female attracted to Asian males in those countries mentioned – USA, Canada, UK, Australia… I think a big part of it has to do with how the male is viewed as the dominant partner, while the female is viewed as more of a follower. An Asian male from Asia would have a very different cultural background from a Western raised female, and thus this would make it very difficult for the male to adjust to living in Western society, and in turn, make it difficult for the White Angle female since she would be in the awkward position of deferring to her fresh off the boat partner. A German male would find it much easier to fit into America or Canada as he grew up in a similar Western based culture. In addition, because of how Hollywood has portrayed Asian males as nerdy, socially inept rejects (Breakfast at Tiffany’s as a good example) there is a very heavy stigma placed on any White Anglo female who dares to even consider dating an Asian male in the USA.

    I think if Hollywood produced more movies where the leading man was a tall dark and handsome Asian male, you would see more White Anglo females hooking up with Asian males, whether from Asia or born/raised in USA. But that’ll be the day that the White man cuts off his penis — it’ll never happen.

    Like


  511. Kiwi mentioned Japan was the last of the Mohicans for Asians. But China was never colonized, except for Hong Kong, and there are no foreign military bases in China, unlike Japan, Korea, Philipines, etc….

    The West needs to keep an eye on China, because it’s not just about cheap labor and Chinese take out anymore.

    Like


  512. @Shazaam

    An Asian male from Asia would have a very different cultural background

    make it very difficult for the male to adjust to living in Western society

    the awkward position of deferring to her fresh off the boat partner

    The majority of Asian men in the USA were either born in the USA or educated in the USA from a young age. How does your argument address this? Why are you using a “foreigner” argument?

    … And why is it so difficult for a foreign Asian male to adjust a Western society but not for a female?
    Also, many of these “foreign” Asians have received western or westernized educations anyhow, at least the ones that a white Anglo female would have the chance to meet, even in Asia.

    Like


  513. @Shazaam

    China was never colonized, except for Hong Kong,

    This is simply wrong. Hong Kong is not the only part of China that was colonized.

    Portuguese occupied Macau for 450 years.
    Spanish, Dutch and Portuguese occupied parts of Taiwan.
    The US, France, UK, Germany and other countries carved out sections of Guangzhou, Shanghai, Qingdao, etc. in foreign settlements.
    Most of all, the entire Northeast of China (Manchuria) and Taiwan were colonies of Japan.

    there are no foreign military bases in China, unlike Japan, Korea, Philipines, etc…

    part of the reason this is tolerated is because of China (and to a lesser extent, North Korea) at their doorstep, at least since WWII.

    The West needs to keep an eye on China, because it’s not just about cheap labor and Chinese take out anymore.

    Is that how you perceive the West perceived China up to now? as cheap labour and take outs?

    I agree that China and the West will find the need to watch each other, but hasn’t this been the case for hundreds of years? What is different now?

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  514. A lot of it has to do with Hollywood’s portrayal of Asian males. In America, Asian males are viewed as the class geek – good at Math, socially inedpt, and just plain hardcore Erkel glasses wearing social misfit that no White Anglo female should even consider being seen with.
    While Hollywood portrays Asian females as exotic, subservient, almost child like lolita type pieces of fresh meat that perverted White males salivate after. This on top of how White males tend to view White Anglo females as bitchy, bossy and gold diggers at best. Thus you get a whole swath of White males going after the Asian hoochie as a result, calling this Yellow Fever, or Asian Fetishism.
    Why focus only on foreign Asians you ask? It doesn’t matter. An Asian male born in the USA is still viewed as a social misfit, thanks to Hollywood.
    Why wouldn’t a foreign female have difficulty adjusting to society as much as a foreign male? The foreign female would defer to her Westernized White husband/bf, which is how it is expected, as the man should be in charge, whereas, the foreign male would find himself in a very awkward position, as he would have to be in charge as expected, yet still not know what the fck he’s doing since he’s fresh off the boat.
    Many of these foreign Asian males would’ve received Westernized educations you say. Yes, but that doesn’t matter, as White Anglo females view them as social retards thanks to Hollywood and it’s dominant influence on us.

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  515. A lot of it has to do with Hollywood’s portrayal of Asian males. In America, Asian males are viewed as the class geek – good at Math, socially inept, and just plain hardcore Erkel glasses wearing social misfit that no White Anglo female should even consider being seen with.
    While Hollywood portrays Asian females as exotic, subservient, almost child like lolita type pieces of fresh meat that perverted White males salivate after. This on top of how White males tend to view White Anglo females as femi Nazis, bossy and gold diggers at best. Thus you get a whole swath of White males going after the Asian hoochie as a result, calling this Yellow Fever, or Asian Fetishism.
    Why focus only on foreign Asians you ask? It doesn’t matter. An Asian male born in the USA is still viewed as a social misfit, thanks to Hollywood.
    Why wouldn’t a foreign female have difficulty adjusting to society as much as a foreign male? The foreign female would defer to her Westernized White husband/bf, which is how it is expected, as the man should be in charge, whereas, the foreign male would find himself in a very awkward position, as he would have to be in charge as expected, yet still not know what the heck he’s doing since he’s fresh off the boat.
    Many of these foreign Asian males would’ve received Westernized educations you say. Yes, but that doesn’t matter, as White Anglo females view them as social retards thanks to Hollywood and it’s dominant influence on us.

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  516. I noticed that while a foreign man speaking English with a French, Italian, or Russian accent is considered “sexy” or “hot” by American women, a foreign man speaking English with a Chinese, Korean, or Japanese accent is considered “gross” or “ugly”.

    The reason I know that is racist and has nothing to do with language differences is that a foreign woman who speaks English with a Chinese, Korean, or Japanese accent is instead considered to be “exotic,” “alluring,” or “demure” by American men, all of a sudden.

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  517. @ Kiwi

    I generally agree with your assessment, but there are a few exxamples that break that pattern. I have yet to hear that a German accent is considered sexy in the US and an Indian accent is rejected in both men and women (at least that is what I’m getting from American television).

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  518. Asian females actually run away from Asian males in America because Hollywood makes it a sin to be attracted to Asian males. Why would you want to date an Asian male? The Asian male is geeky, nerdy, socially retarded, and though he may be a whiz in IT and gets a big pay check, he’s gonna be a debbie downer at your parties. Whereas the White boy is exciting, honorable, and always the leading man.
    So, I guess Kiwi is right, unfortunately.
    A Chinese guy talking with a Chinese accent sounds like a annoying noise compared to a French guy. Ahhh, the romantic languages – French, Italian, Portuguese, so lovely to hear. But Chinese? Blah, horrible sounds.
    But a Chinese female speaking English with a Chinese accent sounds just as horrible as a Chinese male, so I don’t think what you say is true regarding Chinese females sounding exotic, at least to my ears.
    When I hear a Japanese guy talking, I think he sounds effeminate, almost gay.
    But the same goes for a French guy talking.

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  519. What it comes down to is, if you are an Asian male living in the USA, and you find Asian females rejecting you just based on the fact that you’re Asian, it is unfair, but you can think of it as a weeding out of the chaff since if the Asian female is really that shallow and naive, it is really to your benefit that she goes after the White male and let’s him deal with her and her stupidity. You’re better off finding someone who actually wants to be with you not based on what Hollywood tells her is good, but because she actually likes you.
    I’ve personally seen too many WM/AF marriages end up in divorce and it’s the half breed kids who end up suffering. The marriages end because reality is very different than Hollywood’s propaganda of Love you long time.

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  520. A lot of it has to do with Hollywood’s portrayal of Asian males. In America, Asian males are viewed as the class geek – good at Math, socially inept, and just plain hardcore Erkel glasses wearing social misfit that no White Anglo female should even consider being seen with.”

    It’s strange because the Europeans first encountered the Asian threat to Europe the Mongol invasion. (if you don’t count the Huns as truly Asian)

    The Mongols brought terror to Europe on a scale not seen again until the twentieth century.”[1] Diana Lary contends that the Mongol invasions induced population displacement “on a scale never seen before” – particularly in Central Asia and eastern Europe – adding that “the impending arrival of the Mongol hordes spread terror and panic.”

    Chinese Migrations: The Movement of People, Goods, and Ideas over Four Millennia,- Diana Lary

    But the Mongols were an existential threats to Europe and were not defeated by a European or Mediterranean army. These where the ALPHA MALES to beat all Alpha males of their time!

    By WWII the Americans where portraying Japanese men as a savage brutes, capable of defiling and disposing of White women!

    http://image.slidesharecdn.com/anti-japanesesentimentandpropaganda-110418125616-phpapp02/95/anti-japanese-sentiment-and-propaganda-in-wwii-13-728.jpg?cb=1303149499

    But then after the war, the American media reduced the Asian man into a kind of Vulcan/geek or Eunuch/robot, only suitable for ridicule and scorn.Certainly not to be taken seriously, and definitely not romantically!!

    The character Long Duk Dong from the movie “Sixteen Candles,” where he played the hopeless foreign nerd/stooge infatuated with a White girl.

    “Every single Asian dude who went to high school or junior high during the era of John Hughes movies was called ‘Donger,’ ” says Eric Nakamura. “If you’re being called Long Duk Dong,” Wong explains, “you’re comic relief amongst a sea of people unlike you.”

    Taken from this L.A. Times article.

    http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2008/03/the-legacy-of-l.html

    In the sexual goldilocks scenario of the American social straitjacket, Black men are portrayed as uncivilized, masculine, brutes, where Asian men are portrayed as effeminate, dorky, Eunuchs, while White men are seen a “Just Right!”

    We are the flip sides of the same stereotype coin and our Hollywood marginalization propaganda benefits the same people.

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  521. @Shazaam,

    You changed your rationalization from the difficulty that an Asian man, as a non-English speaking foreigner, would have in a relationship with a white Anglo female … to … the hollywood depiction of Asian men as sexless geeks.

    The former rationalization relies on the perpetual foreigner stereotype (which you seemed to apply). They second one is the Asian emasculation trope that Hollywood and popular media promote. However you seemed to offer the stereotype as the factual explanation for the first one (ie, treating the stereotype as true), but in the second one, you seemed to acknowledge that it is a stereotype that is likely untrue.

    Then you depict the “foreign” male as ignorant of US society and mores (“not know what the heck he’s doing”), but only if he is an Asian foreigner. You believe a European (or possibly even African) non-English speaking foreigner would automatically be in tune with American society mores, and thus can handle the white Anglo female?

    Gee.

    Not sure where you stand – which stereotype you believe and which you reject.

    But, most would agree with you about the Hollywood depiction of the Asian male. When was the last time you saw an Asian character (played by a man who is at least 1/2 Asian — thus not in yellowface) in a leading romantic role (or even having any romantic life at all), or in a role of an American leadership position? Americans must find it nauseous. They only play roles as foreigners or as people with no love life, no inner life, etc. (ie, cardboard). We haven’t seen it since James Shigeta 50-60 years ago.

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  522. it’s the half breed kids

    Ouch!

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  523. @King,

    I think the War Brides Act (1945) had a lot to do with promoting the idea in the white American male mind that they own the sexuality of Asian women, further bolstered by hollywood movies like the “World of Suzie Wong” (1960).

    The former is utterly pernicious to me.

    Asians were excluded from immigrating to the USA (except for “paper sons” who got through via loopholes) and condemned to remain perpetual aliens. That means that Asian men could not bring over wives from Asia and became a community of aging bachelors. Since Chinese had been excluded since 1882, they suffered the longest.

    Yet, the War Brides Act allowed US citizens to bring over Asian wives not subject to any immigration quota or exclusion law. That overwhelmingly benefited white men. Asian men who were not allowed to become citizens would still be ineligible to bring over an Asian wife as they had no entitlement under the Act.
    (Caveat: There were 2 exceptions – category of men who could take advantage of the War Brides Act:
    1. Those born in the USA who were citizens via virtue of the 14th Amendment and US v. Wong Kim Ark.
    2. Those who were granted US citizenship via virtue of serving in the US Armed forces during WWII.)

    Over 100,000 women entered under the Act, the vast majority as wives to white men. (Of course, not all of those women were Asian women.)

    They made it near impossible for Asian men, esp. Chinese men to bring over wives from Asia for 85 years, and prohibited them from marrying white women. But as soon as white men went to war in Asia they got to bring back their Asian wives within a few months.

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  524. Thanks, jefe

    It might be interesting some time to consider the Chinese Exclusion Act and the War Brides Act, to compare and contrast their effects on American society and attitudes. I think we often understand the media aspects of Asian “othering” in the U.S. but fail to examine the legislative component of the attack..

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  525. I think what’s messed up about the Asian fetish is that it seems any white man, no matter how short, ugly, uneducated, boring and unremarkable can pull an Asian woman because white men have the most privilege in American society. Similarly, any Asian woman, no matter how plain, unremarkable and boring can get a white boyfriend within a week.

    With Asian men and black women, you better be way above average to have a shot at romance with someone who is one the same level as you in terms of attractiveness, personality, education, life experiences, income etc., especially if that person is of another race. And although mixed race white-Asian men and white-black women do have a better shot at interracial dating and dating in general, we are still seen as completely undateable to scores of people out there because mainstream America generally does not see anybody as being mixed race and the stereotypes about us are generally unflattering in terms of our respective genders. Although lighter skinned half black-half white women like Halle Berry and Alicia Keys are held up as standards of black female beauty in America, I rarely ever see light-skinned black women in relationships with non-black men, anywhere. Similarly, although masculine mixed race Asian and white men like Keanu Reeves and Dean Cain exist in the mainstream, mixed race Asian men are often shafted just as much as full-blooded Asian men because, once again, mainstream white America does not see mixed race as being a real thing. Source: tall 6’1″, young, handsome, well-dressed, masculine, educated half-white/half Asian man.

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  526. @King,

    I wonder if it happened in reverse, ie,

    Combing the effects of

    Chinese Exclusion Act (and prior acts, such as the Paige Act and subsequent Alien Exclusion Acts)
    War Brides Act
    Anti-Miscegenation laws

    which served to deny Asian men access to women and marriage in general, but opened up unfettered access to Asian women (not subject to immigration quotas) for White men.

    Could the emasculation of the Asian male resulted from the century long legal statutes that denied marriage and restricted sex (or made it next to impossible) to Asian men?

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  527. Source: tall 6’1″, young, handsome, well-dressed, masculine, educated half-white/half Asian man.

    What’s your number?

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  528. SanFranpsycho415 said:

    “With Asian men and black women, you better be way above average to have a shot at romance with someone who is one the same level as you in terms of attractiveness, personality, education, life experiences, income etc., especially if that person is of another race.”

    Few women have a shot at romance with men at the same level as them in terms of attractiveness, personality, income. That’s male privilege–straight men act as if they have no self awareness as to their own level of attractiveness in the eyes of women and feel entitled to women way more attractive than they deserve and make very little to no effort to be physically attractive or have attractive personalities to women, and systematically keep us from earning as much as them so they can continue to economically pressure women to sleep with men we would reject if things were equal. Not to mention the huge institutionalized socialization we get to achieve the same end, and the outright non-stop bullying and sexual harassment.

    Gay men all have male privilege and understand that they have to make themselves attractive if they want an attractive partner.

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  529. “In the sexual goldilocks scenario of the American social straitjacket, Black men are portrayed as uncivilized, masculine, brutes, where Asian men are portrayed as effeminate, dorky, Eunuchs, while White men are seen a “Just Right!””

    In most Seth Rogen movies the white men make you want to vomit.

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  530. Ok, what do people think of the 80s movie “The Lover”? Based on French woman Marguerite Duras’ autobiographical book about her teenage affair with a Chinese man.

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  531. Didnt it go straight to video?

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  532. Let’s face it, it wasn’t that long ago, that Blacks couldn’t drink from a Whites only water fountain. Blacks couldn’t go to the White school. Blacks couldn’t swim in the pool. It wasn’t that long ago. Is it really such a big surprise that White people promote themselves as the superior race in Hollywood today?
    Some things never change.

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  533. For more years than I care to remember Asians have been systematically putting down blacks in their attempt to curry favor with whites. With the rise of anti-Asian racism Asians are finally learning that the dominant white culture despise and look down on them just as much as much as other non-whites.

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  534. Fred, just bear in mind that for more years than we all care to remember Blacks have also been systematically putting down other Blacks in their attempt to curry favor with Whites. So it’s not like its specifically a problem just among Asians. (not that this is necessarily what you are saying).

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  535. That makes me wonder…

    Before World War II, it was uncommon for white men to marry Asian women. So when war with Japan broke out, the white male-dominated US government had no problem interning Japanese Americans. Asian women were not seen as having any “special value” to white men. But now that white male/Asian female relationships are accepted and even encouraged by American society, would that help reduce the possibility of a future war between the US and China?

    I doubt white men would have been as willing to nuke Japan or carpet-bomb Vietnam if they had perceived the women they were killing as potential romantic partners who they could raise families with. I suppose if the United States president were ever a white man whose First Lady was Asian, that could restrain the US from going to war with China. But then again, if his wife were self-hating, that could paradoxically lead to war. Just speculating.

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  536. @Kiwi

    I suspect that if the Eagle and the Dragon fight it out (cookie for the reference) we’d see a complete reversal on Asian-White relations. AW would become the least desired partner for WM (there may be an increase of Black-Asian pairings). An Asian First Lady would be regarded as a traiter and not a “Real America”, as would her husband. Chinese Americans might not be interned, per say, but they would face the same persecution and violence that South Asian, Near, and Middle Eastern people do at the hands of civilians and police.

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  537. @ taleoflions

    An Asian First Lady would be regarded as a traiter and not a “Real America”, as would her husband.

    But she could prove her loyalty by campaigning for the internment of Chinese Americans. If Michelle Malkin were First Lady, that’s exactly what she would do.

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  538. ^^^

    And while she’s at it, she would grant an exemption to families of Asian women married to white men while locking up only families headed by Asian men.

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  539. “Domestic Violence Survivor and Mother Faces Deportation in Yolo County, CA”

    https://actionnetwork.org/petitions/domestic-violence-survivor-and-mother-faces-deportation-in-yolo-county-ca

    “Nan-Hui Jo, a survivor of domestic violence, may be just days away from permanent separation from her six-year-old daughter.

    In 2009, Nan-Hui fled with her child to South Korea, her home country, after physical and emotional abuse at the hands of her then-partner and child’s father. On two occasions in August 2009 and October 2009, Nan-Hui called the police in Sacramento after her child’s father physically abused her. After Nan-Hui left her child’s father, he reported her for kidnapping. In July 2014, when she returned to the United States, she immediately was arrested for alleged child abduction.

    For the past seven months, Nan-Hui has been separated from her child and continues to be detained at Yolo County Jail in Woodland, CA. Her first trial ended in a hung jury in December 2014, and her second trial began last Friday. After the trial, Nan-Hui faces imminent deportation and permanent separation from her daughter.”

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  540. @Kiwi

    she could prove her loyalty by campaigning for the internment of Chinese Americans. If Michelle Malkin were First Lady, that’s exactly what she would do.

    That’s definitely possible, especially if it’s a GoP White House. But they wouldn’t call it internment, they’d arrest them on suspicion of treason or something to that effect. Such things are already legal.

    And while she’s at it, she would grant an exemption to families of Asian women married to white men while locking up only families headed by Asian men.

    In an interview, Dr. Frank B. Wilderson recounted that his father had almost died from racist negligence in a hospital because the staff didn’t know who he was and his connections to that hospital:

    (https://percy3.wordpress.com/2010/07/14/frank-wilderson-wallowing-in-the-contradictions-part-2/)

    So you’re probably correct in that some Asian Women would be spared Krystallnacht due to their marriage to Herrenvolk White American men.

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  541. King you certainly got that right; case in point yesterday while I was on a bus going home I was talking to a lady about the church service we had attended when out of the blue this black guy suddenly verbally attacked us! The bus was crowded with white people, the lady I was talking with was white but the man who had threaten us was black like I was! With the bus overloaded with whites why would the guy go after the only other black man on the bus? Granted nobody should put anybody down; however when attacked by your own kind is too much. Such is life; point taken.

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  542. @ Fred

    THAT’s what I’m talking about! There are too many brothers who have it out for brothers!

    But I once worked with this older guy who was a bank Vice President. And would you believe that ALL the White bank executives were very cool and nice to the Black employees. But this one Black V.P. was always really snobby. Well, I guess that’s O.K., I mean it was a shame, but if he’s a snob, he’s a snob. But then we began to notice that he had a really unpredictable personality. He was never warm and nice, but at times he would snap and just get extremely nasty!

    Until finally, one of the sisters who was a loan officer noticed that there was a pattern to it—He only did that when he thought White people (especially other executives) were watching him or within earshot. So we watched for it, and sure enough, it was true! He would start talking down to Black employees and raising his voice. Then, afterward he would actually look over to the White people to see if they had noticed how he really knew how to manage these lower-class Black employees. And he was also super nice to female White bank tellers, but treated the Black ones like trash.

    Anyway, I wasn’t there that long. But after I left, I was told that he got into some trouble with one of those White bank tellers. As it turned out, he was messing around with her on the side (he was married) and she actually set him up and lied on him. And do you know what? The other White tellers took her side. So the only witnesses who could clear his name were the Black employees, who could pretty much confirm that it was a lie. At least they could shed some doubt about the accusations.

    Do you know they turned their backs on that sell-out? They told him that he was not Black, and that he could go to Hell before any of them would lift a finger to clear his name. And in the end he was let go. But they say that he begged them to help him and tried to bring up his wife and kids.

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  543. @ Herneith

    Where do you live? I live on the East Coast out here in between Baltimore and DC, and I’m extremely picky.

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  544. @Fred

    For more years than I care to remember Asians have been systematically putting down blacks in their attempt to curry favor with whites. With the rise of anti-Asian racism Asians are finally learning that the dominant white culture despise and look down on them just as much as much as other non-whites.

    Either you have this in reverse, or you are practicing the teflon view of history that only goes back 30 years.

    (https://abagond.wordpress.com/2010/10/09/teflon-theory-of-history/)

    For the vast majority of US history, Asians were put on par with blacks. The Fugitive slave codes were modified to control Asians in the West during the 19th century (eg, mine and railroad workers), and Asians who came to the South entered the social system as plantation labourers – on equal par with blacks. Post reconstruction Jim Crow laws assigned Asians as “Colored”.

    (https://abagond.wordpress.com/2014/06/12/chinese-americans-in-mississippi-under-jim-crow/)

    In the South, as they started to enjoy some economic success, paid more taxes, and formed families, they started to feel they deserved some access to the better funded white facilities and institutions. THEN, that compelled them to differentiate themselves from blacks.

    After the Great Migrations brought blacks North, this forced the ones up North to distinguish themselves from blacks in the eyes of whites too. Even before Affirmative Action, this helped Asians enter whites only institutions (eg, labour unions or schools) before blacks.

    But East / SE Asians (and also later SW Asians) have a particular image situation that is more problematic than blacks, ie, perpetual alien and yellow peril (or terrorist, for SW Asian). This can manifest itself in ways such as the WWII Japanese American Internment Camps, racial profiling of spies or modern day racialized Islamophobia.

    Whites then used this (token Asian desegregation) during the post Jim Crow Affirmative action era (1967 – 1982) to delay the entry of blacks into their white spheres. This was temporarily interrupted by the Vincent Chin incident, but restrengthened in the mid-80s as the “model minority stereotype”. It is whites who play Asians against blacks.

    What you are talking about is a modern resurgence of Yellow Peril. Whites in America have always despised Asians. Yellow Peril has been with the USA since the 19th century, it just took a slight back seat to the Model Minority Stereotype, which whites exploited to control blacks and isolate themselves from them. If whites truly feel threatened by Asia we will see a strong resurgence of Yellow Peril. We already have a strong Islamophobia element in US society.

    But, a full generation of Asian Americans whose parents came to the USA after 1968 and who grew up post 1985 have been taught a teflon view of history too. Yellow peril is just beneath the surface of that Model Minority paradigm.

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