Last year I wrote about why so few white men marry black women. I said that it came down to racism: white men do not want to have black children.
It has become one of my most commented-on posts. Over the past several nights it has got over a hundred comments from white men who object to me calling them racists – fair enough – but then fill their comments with the most rank stereotypes about black women and black people in general! Priceless.
But then in the meantime I read the Columbia study about race and dating. Also, some of the comments have made me think more about the whole thing. Now I am not so sure.
The comments pointed out two things wrong with the first post:
- I said that black women in America are more open to interracial marriage than white men because a greater percentage are, in fact, in interracial marriages. But Uncle Milton pointed out that that is because black women have more opportunity (at least on paper) to marry outside their race – because most men in America are from other races. I grant his point.
- I left out any account of what black women think of the whole thing! When I found out that only one white American man in 400 is married to a black woman, it seemed like a straightforward case of white racism. But then some black female commenters said that the ugly history that black women have had with white men in America – all the rapes back in slave days – is in the back of their minds and that works against such relationships. And, even apart from that, the ongoing racism in American society makes it hard to trust whites. True: marriage is an act of profound trust.
The Columbia study meanwhile found that while men are dogs and only care about looks, not race, women prefer men of their own race. Women, not men, apply race to dating.
Part of why Anglo-America has a One Drop Rule is because the English brought their own women. The white women would marry white men and have white children. Without that the One Drop Rule would have had little support among men, as it did in the old New Orleans under the French where white women were in short supply.
So then black women are to blame, right?
Well, it is not that simple. First, there were not enough black women in the Columbia study to draw any firm conclusions about them. But I grant that most black women would prefer to marry a black man.
Yet on the other hand I cannot shake from my mind the way white men, at least in New York, act as if black women are not living, breathing women. Like some of the white commenters, they see them as black first and women second – if at all.
See also:
- Why so few white men marry black women, part I
- How to date a black woman – advice from Funky Brown Chick for men who are not black
- Columbia study about race and dating
- One Drop Rule
- Creoles – part of it is about race mixing in the old New Orleans
- race and beauty
- Stereotypes about black women
stereotypes about black women and black people in general
those weren’t the only stereotypes they mentioned (expecting submission from women, the stereotype of the asian china doll and mythical hypersexuality) and I didn’t point it before but… who one Earth even uses the offensive word “mulatto” in today’s age anyway? it’s so archaic and primitive.
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I see that you used the photo of Lauren London’s parents that I linked on here a while ago. Goes well with this post.
Yeah, black women, because of their troubled history with white men, may not want a part of white men. I already pointed that out a long time ago.
Yet, as evidenced by the extended commentary by those white males on the first part of this post, whites generally do not see blacks in a favorable light. This also backs up what I was saying back then: whites see blacks as subordinate to them, so actually wanting to intermarry and procreate with them is out of the question.
Like you pointed out, a black woman, or black person in general is BLACK first, woman second or third or not at all. And obviously, blackness to them is seen as a disqualifying factor. “Mike” and the crew confirmed this stream of thought with their neverending commentary.
That Columbia study about race and dating was what it was, but it wasn’t complete. And like you, the idea that men don’t see race when it comes to women is only partially correct…at least in the case of white men. It’s not so much that they’re against dating interracially, but more against dating black. Do you agree, Aba?
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“who one Earth even uses the offensive word “mulatto” in today’s age anyway?”
I wouldn’t use it In English but it is still fairly common term in Latin America (as is Negro, another pejorative term in English..) I am not going to defend it’s usage in English but the person who used it, speaks Spanish and lives in a predominantly Latino area.
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I would like to let everybody on this post know that once again I proved your ignorance. Like I said before, I like to research things before saying them.
Anyways, a black girl was talking about the same topic as Abagond was on YouTube. Me and her had a decent intelligent conversation. She was actually intelligent unlike you folk! Anyways, she straight up admitted that if black girls cleaned up their act then there would be more white guys dating them. So HAHA! What do you have to say now Abagond? I proved you wrong again.
Here is her exact comment from her: “I agree with you. If black girls would clean up their acts then men would actually want them.”
So now what? Am I racist for what another black women said? Face it, I’m right and you guys are ignorant. Blacks and whites are both on my side. I mean what does it take too prove my point? You won’t listen to me nor other blacks that stand up for what I’m talking about. Maybe it was just the fact she was actually intelligent unlike you guys.
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To Mike:
So now what? Am I racist for what another black women said? Face it, I’m right and you guys are ignorant. Blacks and whites are both on my side. I mean what does it take too prove my point?
Mike, that’s a logical fallacy. (as is some of the other side of the discussion..) Just because one black woman on youtube has this opinion doesn’t validate your position.
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To Uncle Milton: It’s just the fact of the matter that were not racists because we say we don’t like ghetto black chicks. We don’t like ghetto white chicks either. It’s the culture. And now, I have confirmation from the girl on YouTube even admitting this. So it just enforces my point more. So if I’m racist than she must be racist too? Even though she is black? That’s how foolish Abagond sounds.
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mike – ghetto black chicks
I do hope that you know that this is a stereotype right?
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To Mike:
So if I’m racist than she must be racist too? Even though she is black?
I suspect Abagond might file her under the “rented negro” or brainwashed category. The reality is that in every instance of human history there have been people who identified/sided with their conquerors.
A famous example:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malinche
That doesn’t mean this woman falls into this category but it is a component of the human experience.
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No, it’s just fact that she was actually intelligent in what she was saying. Alot of the racist blacks are the ones living on welfare and in prison. The more intelligent ones like Condoleza Rice and such would admit to such a thing.
To Tereasa: And that’s a stereotype classifying whites as 95% racist. When will you people understand? It’s like I’m fight with little kids. You just can’t admit defeat.
Well anyways, to all the blacks who are not ignorant such as the ones on this website, I commemorate you!!! I praise the blacks that admit to double-standards and such. So to all my educated blacks, I hope we get past racism and we can start being unified. We just have to erase the racist whites and blacks on this site.
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To all my black brothers and sisters, do not let Abagond start a race war. That’s what he wants. He’s trying to stir up conflict by making risky topics and false accusations. He’s not even black –he’s white. So don’t let him speak for you!
This site is making whites more frustrated at blacks, not less. So demand he takes this topic down and lets talk about being unified! Like how we came together to elect President Obama!
Hallelujah hallelujah!! “Free at last, Free at last!”
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mike,
why don’t you try to learn something from the other people on this blog instead of trying to prove (really badly too) that everything you say is right. i’ve learned a lot from these posts and the comments, you could too..
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At least I have information to back me up. All you have is your own opinion lalala!
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and you have completely missed what i was trying to say
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What am I supposed to learn? I learned that Rob Lindsay, Neoserviam, racerealist, and Kat all agree in what I’m saying. I’ve learned that a girl on YouTube supports what I’m saying. I’ve definitely learned, learned that I’m right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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mike – ghetto black chicks
I do hope that you know that this is a stereotype right?
For Chrissake, ghetto Blacks and ghetto Black chicks is not a stereotype. I live around a bunch of pretty ghetto Black people right here, and there’s way more elsewhere in this town. You think they don’t exist? Why don’t you come down here and meet some of these nonexistent people.
The truth is that Blacks are split into two vast groups – ghetto or Underclass and something like assimilated or “middle class”. There is also a lot of movement in between and back and forth and a lot of folks that has some degree of both. And “Ghetto/Underclass” is more than anything else a value system, not a zip code.
What Mike is saying, and I agree, is that the more “Ghetto” the Black woman, the less we like her. The more “assimilated”, the better.
It’s beyond me why this sort of thing is seen outside the realm of conversation.
I think it’s really unfair that this Therese continues to bash me for innocently using the word “mulatto” when I had no idea at all it was offensive. I apologized and said I would not use it again, but she continues to beat me with it and uses it as proof that I’m an evil racist.
Therese is an example of why I’m so leery about Black women these days. They accuse of feeding stereotypes about them, but those very stereotypes are so amply displayed by them in these very threads. These women are so angry, mean, vicious, cruel, hateful and hostile towards us White men that no sane White man would dare to go near them. Who could blame us?
I’ve dated many Asian women and been around many times more. “China doll” isn’t a stereotype. They really are more submissive and feminine.
It’s normal to expect femininity or even submissiveness (meaning just femininity really) in a female. Men want this. Femininity is a woman’s natural role. So many Black women seem to have thrown it out the door in favor of unbridled aggression that one wonders why any man would give them the time of day.
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at least in the case of white men. It’s not so much that they’re against dating interracially, but more against dating black.
Indeed, I’m completely open to dating SE Asians, NE Asians, Hispanics, Arabs, East Indians…what else is there?
It’s Black women I have some issues with and I’m not even sure if I want to deal with them anymore after being involved with some.
Excellent point, myname. You hit it on the head.
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I am only up to comment #9, but I just want to say to mike that when you talk to Condoleezza Rice about ghetto black chicks I want to be there. Or at least put it on YouTube.
Thank you.
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mike:
I agree with Uncle Milton: just because one black girl on YouTube agrees with you does not make it true. There must be some Latin name for that sort of logical fallacy.
Also: People who agree with us often seem surprisingly intelligent. Just so you know.
That YouTube girl might be brainwashed but probably not rented – unless someone is paying her to agree with white people, which I doubt from the sounds of it.
You like to quote black people back at me, but you can find black people who hold all sorts of opinions. Those who agree with white people most of the time and do it well get their books published and get to talk on television. I call them Rented Negroes. Amy Holmes, as beautiful as she is, is one. So is John McWhorter, even though I like some of his books.
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I am laughing so hard, my tummy hurts.
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mike:
If I am white, why would I want a race war? Am I like from Stormfront and this whole blog is reverse reverse psychology or something? At least make sense.
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Robert Lindsay:
Therese is an example of why I’m so leery about Black women these days. They accuse of feeding stereotypes about them, but those very stereotypes are so amply displayed by them in these very threads. These women are so angry, mean, vicious, cruel, hateful and hostile towards us White men that no sane White man would dare to go near them. Who could blame us?
Well you come here with all your racist stereotypes about angry black women, then black women get upset at you and then you say, “See, I was right!” Come on.
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Y’all are scary and angry as Hell even on the threads before I even jumped in.
Your endless comments about our small dicks are particularly threatening and avoidance-inducing.
What racist stereotypes? That Black women are aggressive? Why is that a racist stereotype? Isn’t it true that on average and as a group, they are more aggressive? Why is that even debatable?
It’s also been my experience that too many of them were cynical, greedy, money-hungry, using and seemed to want to drain every nickel out of my wallet. Way worse than even White gold-diggers. If that’s my experience, why is that racist or stereotypical? My experience is my experience, right?
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To Abagond:
There must be some Latin name for that sort of logical fallacy.
Probably Argumentum Ad Verecundium. Basically supporting ones argument with an improper authority.
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Here’s where I come in again to completely destroy you guys with facts and quotes again. And no, one black women does not make a difference on YouTube, but I have watched several videos from YouTube with blacks agreeing with whites.
For example, there was this one video on YouTube with a black Jamaican girl saying she was very disappointed with her black comrades in America. She was basically saying the same thing we were. She was saying how the way black Americans act does not represent the good Africans out there. I watched this awhile ago, so I never saved it. But I could probably find it again, although it would be hard.
Also here is a quote from a Filipino on yahoo questions when a black guy said all whites are racist.
“I am Filipino and I do want to answer this question. Whites are not all racist, only some of them, same does apply to every race in the world. You know, racism would only stop if we would have the ability to understand our similarities and differences, the ability to give mutual respect and the ability to not have a generalized mind. I respect every person out there and I am against racism! Peace!”
seems to me that even Asians back up whites in agreeing that all whites are not racist, and that every single culture in the world is racist at one another. And this does include blacks.
So what’s my point? This generalizing has to stop. This is nothing but a black supremist site trying to fuel racial tension.
None of you have a defense against me. Give me more time tomorrow and Ill find you additional 5 quotes and more videos on YouTube with blacks supporting whites.
Like I said before, I commemorate the blacks that realize these double-standards. To all of these educated, civilized blacks, what we need to do is do a genocide against racism. We need to exterminate black supremacists on this site (Abagond and his few followers) and racist whites (skin heads, nazis, KKK, etc).
Does anybody on this website actually thing this website is progressing us towards racial equality? Where is Abagonds topic: 50% of whites voted for Obama? I volunteered in Monroe to help Obama and the majority of volunteers were whites. 4:1 ratio. Where is all the information information?
Or where is: South Africans at an alarming rate are slaughtering white farmers and raping the women? It’s all over the news. Look it up on YouTube. Last time I checked, that was called genocide.
Abagond has biased topics with no facts. Only his personal assessment. So if this racism will ever end, we need to exterminate radicals like Abagond.
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You didn’t have to make a whole new post just to admit that you were wrong.
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I can’t discern what Mike is trying to say. Thus, it’s impossible to respond.
Agabond’s post on this topic paints with broad, somewhat stereotypical generalizations. This is the case with many of Agabond’s posts about the attitudes of white people toward blacks. As a result of his choice to frame his posts thus, the posts will contain kernels of truth while at the same time be exposed to countless individual exceptions.
The WM/BW pairing does remain a sort of “final frontier” in the United States with respect to bi-racial relationships. Even here in my northern Prairie metro, known by some as IR central, you don’t see a lot of WM/BW couples.
There are multiple factors affecting this. Among them is the well known tendency among some BW to reject WM as partners or mates out of a sense of principal, which has effect of deterring many WM from making advances toward any BW.
However, I do agree with Agabond that also among these factors is racism manifest as the failure of WM to view BW as possible partners or mates. For example, as a WM with a history of dating BW, I can attest that, especially in my 20’s, I endured many disgusting frat-boy type lewd inquiries to the effect of: “So, what’s it like?” “It” being “sex with a BW.” As if “it” is any different than sex with any other woman, but that’s beside the point. The point is that I know for a fact that there are many WM — not all but many — who view BW as some sort of exotic other, interesting perhaps for a fetish or fantasy but not as a co-equal life partner.
At the same time, I do perceive that this dynamic is changing, beginning with my generation. I think one catalyst of this change has been the dramatic increase in the number of BW on college campuses beginning in the late 1970’s or early 1980s.
This appears to be trickling down to high school and younger, and it is now showing up in popular entertainment directed toward young people. For example, the other day my third grade daughter was watching an episode of “True Jackson, V.P.,” the Nickelodeon sitcom starring Keke (“Akela and the Bee”) Palmer. In this episode, we saw True (Keke) having a steamy hug/almost kiss with a cute male co-star — a cute, white male co-star.
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By the way, white boys, as to the dick size thing, if you’re going to date BW you have to become comfortable with the reality that most of their prior experiences will have been with BM, meaning that any comparing in that department will involve comparing your rig with the equipment owned by the BM who preceded you. Mother nature was aiight to me in that dep’t and I’ve not had issues if you know what I’m saying, but each man needs to take the measure of that issue for himself.
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So, Blanc2, a lot of you white men truly see black men as being more masculine and well endowed than you?
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Hi all!
I have been following this post and the oodles of comments that have been posted for a while and I just have to say something. Not anything hurtful but something to steer us back to the main topic.
As a middle class, drama free, masters degree having, cultured, loving, so sweet I would probably rot your teeth out, honest woman who just so happens to be black, reading these comments I have experienced everything from ROTFL to nausea.
In my opinion, the problem comes down to choices. Black women who are perhaps not as worldly, educated, who may come off as aggressive, have made their choice about who they want to date, procreate with, and marry. Sorry guys who are of non-black background, correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t think these women would be interested in you either. I know, I know…gutting. 🙂
Anyway, my concern is for the other group of us women of color, black women in particular. Those of us who have our acts together, worked hard all of our lives to play it straight, play by the rules, got the education, have great jobs, love football games and international travel, etc., who are sitting without a mate because of this ridiculous idea of how all black women are. A person would not use a sweeping judgment like that to describe all white women.
Because of generalizations like this black women who are used to choosing her route in life by way of job, or religion, or friends or education, suddenly CANNOT choose from the plethora of wonderful, talented, sweet, sexy, honest men of ALL colors she sees every day. Where pretty much everyone else has a God given right to choose his or her mate, most black women do not have that luxury because of the reputation that proceeds us.
mike, Robert Lindsey, etc., I don’t expect anyone to date or marry a person who they really don’t want to be with regardless of color, and neither do the people who oppose your views. But as long as there are women like me (and there are a whole lot of us, open your eyes!) who are the exact opposite of what has been stated in comments on this post then you are just adding fuel to the fire.
To the men out there, don’t be afraid of black women. We are just like any other woman out there…just with better skin… 🙂
Have a great weekend, y’all
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Good comment. That is the thing about stereotypes.
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Blanc2 said in an otherwise excellent comment (NOT the one about dick size!):
Agabond’s post on this topic paints with broad, somewhat stereotypical generalizations. This is the case with many of Agabond’s posts about the attitudes of white people toward blacks. As a result of his choice to frame his posts thus, the posts will contain kernels of truth while at the same time be exposed to countless individual exceptions.
That is just what a generalization is – true for most but not for all. There are very few interesting statements you can make that apply to all 200 million white Americans (or whatever the number is now), but there are many that you can make that apply to, or at least seem to apply to, 60% or more of them.
I find it a bit maddening that white people pick at my generalizations but then let the stereotypes of Robert Lindsay and others slide right on by without a word.
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Robert Linsday said:
Y’all are scary and angry as Hell even on the threads before I even jumped in.
Point to a comment on this blog made by a black woman and please tell us what you found scary about it. Or one where she was angry for no good reason.
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Robert Lindsay also said (even worse):
Your endless comments about our small dicks are particularly threatening and avoidance-inducing.
Please tell me where on this blog you saw these endless comments about the small penis size of white men.
I do not remember them, but maybe I forget. I think you are projecting your own insecurities onto black women.
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Robert Linsday said later in that same comment:
It’s also been my experience that too many of them were cynical, greedy, money-hungry, using and seemed to want to drain every nickel out of my wallet. Way worse than even White gold-diggers. If that’s my experience, why is that racist or stereotypical? My experience is my experience, right?
How come you never hear a white guy say he will not date white women because he has had bad experiences with them?
If a string of white women had used you for your money would you think they did it “because they are white”? Or would you think you just had a string of bad luck or that you need better judgement in picking your next date?
You are applying your bad experiences to a whole race. But you do not do that to your own race because you know it is not that simple. You know there are good white women and bad white women and everything in between. Black women are no different.
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mynameismyname said in comment #2:
That Columbia study about race and dating was what it was, but it wasn’t complete. And like you, the idea that men don’t see race when it comes to women is only partially correct…at least in the case of white men. It’s not so much that they’re against dating interracially, but more against dating black. Do you agree, Aba?
Yes, I agree. The Columbia study was just one study and, as it was, it did not have enough blacks in it. I think white men do care about a woman’s race when the race in question is black and when the issue is marriage or even a serious relationship.
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mnimn: The stereotype of BM being well endowed is infused into certain elements of American pop culture. It’s not an issue for me personally, but I do believe that it is something that lurks in the minds of at least some WM.
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Honestly, I don’t think that stereotypes really have that much of an effect after you meet someone. Most people are reasonable enough to judge each person on their individual merits. I think we can all tell within the first minute whether you’re angry uneducated, and obnoxious or sweet, cultured, and drama free. In fact, we can often figure it out beforehand by your appearance and body language. If you’re my type, and I’m your type, we’ll probably hit it off. Unfortunately, if you’re a liberal who listens to hip-hop/R&B/soul, watches Tyler Perry movies, and goes to church on Sunday, you’re probably not my type. That’s just me though, and I know there are plenty of white guys out there who like at least some of those things. If you like Ron Paul, theater, Richard Linklater, and alt-rock then I’ll certainly give you a chance because you’re one in a million!
This leads to another reason why white men and black women don’t often end up together. In many instances white people and black people have separate cultures, and both groups practice self-segregation. At my theater groups, there are rarely any black patrons (and a dearth of other single straight men as well, fortunately for me). There are plenty of black actors in the shows, and not just in the “traditionally” black roles. In my area, it seems like blacks and hispanics flock to the dance clubs, while many white people like myself prefer a cozy bar with maybe some live folk or rock music.
Even when blacks and whites are in the same venue, the groups still tend to be segregated. As a white man, it’s awkward to approach a group of four or five black (or hispanic or asian) people and try to insinuate oneself into the conversation. It’s much easier to approach a woman of color when she’s in a mixed group because you don’t feel like a foreign intruder. If I see a black and a hispanic woman talking to each other, I feel like the inter-racial “common ground” has already been established, and I’m not going to disrupt a “black” conversation.
Let me relate a little personal anecdote. When I was in high school, one of my closest friends was a black girl. She would often fawn over shirtless pictures of super-ripped black celebrities. Thus, as an average white guy, and generally oblivious at that time, it never really registered that I might be her type. When I confided in her that I had a crush on another girl, she threw a hissy fit. Maybe she thought I was racist, though she never said it, but honestly I was just responding to the cues she gave me. It didn’t help that she had acne and some other undesirable traits.
I have friends of all colors, and one other thing I’ve noticed is that while many of my asian and hispanic friends seem to bend over backwards to introduce me to their sisters/cousins/nieces, none of my black friends ever have. I’m not going to speculate about why that is, because I don’t want to generalize based on my own experience. However, I would be interested to know if others have observed a similar phenomenon.
Anyway, lots of random thoughts there. I should add that I object to some of what you’ve written in this post such as that a hundred posts from white men ended up proving that white men are racist. At most, they proved that 2 or 3 white men on the internet are racist, which is not surprising in the comment section of your original racially-charged post. Basically it’s the same idea that I objected to in your first post, which is that you extrapolated your interpretation of events that you’ve witnessed into a generalization about all white men. In doing this, you greatly oversimplify a complex social phenomenon and insult about a third of the US population.
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Celia – Thank yu for your well written comment. Stereotypes might work for Marketing groups but in choosing a mate are dumb. Evone – dear friend of mine is a BM from cuba. When we first met he assumed I was a white suburban soccer mom. After three years of friendship I am still shaking his preconceived ideas about me. And He teachs me about preconceived ideas as well. As do all my friends. Its just best to never assume anything about a person these days.
abagond – “Good comment. That is the thing about stereotypes.” You miss the gold among the kernals of sand…this goes both ways.
About the WM – Small errr man member thing…it is a prevelent stereotype that BMs are larger. This belief is strengthed by certain IR cucolding fetishes and Mandango fetishes. But like all stereotypes its not exactly accurate all the time. Some WM might think a BM is more endowed but not care. Oddly enough – when I am stopped on the street by BMs and complimented…once I thank them politely for the compliment and try to move on they will ask if I am married. I will say yes. They ask if he is white…I say yes. Then they almost always ask me if he can satisfy me. ITs a very odd invasive question – but its asked alot. So its not just WM believing BM are larger…BM also put forth the idea that only they can completely satisfy a women. Which is a bit odd since…well it aint ALL about that particular piece of equipment boys. I know you think its the star attraction to the event but…its just a player…maybe a key player..but still a member of the team.
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Lynette – does this mean that if a smart, beautiful educated Black Women with a Ph.D were to meet a man who makes her happy, makes her laugh and he happens to be a white, male jiffy lube tech – that she should marry him?
What if he is a white male PhD?
Should we date and marry people who makeus feel good about ourselves and make us happy? Why shoud skin color even be a factor.
My sisters husband and mine have more IN common that not. They are both good loving intelligent men, they are both cops, they both love motorcycles, they both are wonderful fathers, and on and on. one happens to be black and one white…but that doesnt matter. They are brothers…
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editorial note: I ment – “that she shouldnt marry him?”
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“Therefore, I was taught to love my whiteness at a very early age. I never felt as though I had to go out of my way to meet men of different ethnicities. I was comfortable being sought after by men of my race who also understood the White experience.
Again, I don’t have anything against women who choose to date outside their race; however, I do see White men as the cream of the crop. They are just my preference, as well as the preference of the White women in my circle.”
Is this statement, then, equally acceptable to you?
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Good, I agree that everyone has the right to choose their own preferences. However, the altered statement I posted above would be labeled racist by many.
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ceilidh71,
Thanks for your insightful, intelligent, comment. You have made one of the MOST CONSTRUCTIVE comments on this topic so far. You are CORRECT to point out that there are MORE educated, successful, cultured, intelligent, beautiful BW in the culutre than the ANTI-BW HATER/LIAR/RACISTS want to admit. They would rather continue to promote LIES, MYTHS, AND STEREOTYPES THAT TRASH THE HUMANITY, DIGNITY, AND FEMININITY OF BW than deal with the FACT that BW are as good as any other race of women and are WORTHY of being pursued for SERIOUS dating and/or marriage relationships like any other race of women.
abagond,
One important fact that studies regarding IRR’s involving BW don’t mention is that there are cultural differences within various groups of BW that affect their attitudes toward IRR’s.
In my life experience in America, I have known MANY NON-AFRICAN AMERICAN BW (Afro Latinas, African BW, Caribbean BW, etc. ) and SOME AFRICAN AMERICAN BW who have ALWAYS been OPEN TO/INTERESTED IN IRR’S WITH WM/NON-BM. BW are not responsible for the lower number OF WM/BW couples as compared to other IRR’S. After all, IRR’s in America were legalized as a result of a WM/BW couple (THE LOVINGS) in the early 60’s.
The fact is that (though many try to deny it but can be seen on this post) the MAIN OBSTACLE BW have faced/continue to face to serious dating and/or marriage relationships with WM/NON-BM are their ANTI-BW COWARDICE AND/OR RACIST ANTI-BW TENDEDENCIES. In America, MOST (NOT ALL) WM/NON-BM will pursue serious dating and/or marriage relationships with ANY NON-WW as long as she isn’t a BW.
ANTI-BW HATER/LIAR/RACISTS,
When MANY WM/non-BM (who claim to be attracted to BW) CONTINUE TO CHOOSE TO INTERACT WITH them IN A DIFFERENT (cowardly, racist) way than they do with other NON-WW, they send the message that they consider BW lesser women and our beauty to be less worthy of appreciation/pursuit than that of other NON-WW.
As a result, BW continue to pay AN UNFAIR HIGH PRICE FOR BEING SINGLED OUT FOR DISCRIMINATORY TREATMENT FROM MANY OF THESE WM/NON-BM SOLELY BECAUSE THEY ARE BLACK. Not only is this type of ANTI-BW treatment from MANY OF THESE WM/NON-BM toward MANY BW DISGUSTING AND WRONG, IT SHOUDN’T STILL BE GOING ON IN THE 21ST CENTURY.
THE MANY WM/non-BM who claim to be attracted to BW, but systematically treat them in a DISCRIMINATORY MANNER, are to blame for making it more difficult for BW TO form SERIOUS dating and/or marriage relationships with WM/NON-BM.
BW are REAL WOMEN WITH REAL FEELINGS who are tired of constantly having our HUMANITY, DIGNITY, AND FEMININITY TRASHED BY ANTI-BW HATER/LIAR/RACISTS. BW will continue to speak out against you and DESTROY the LIES, MYTHS, and STEREOTYPES you’re promoting.
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Laromana, you make the same mistake that a lot of “aggrieved” minorities make…
thinking that “speaking out” loudly against white men will make us like you more.
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Honestly I don’t care why people would think that my version of your statement is racist. Either neither is racist, or both are. I can understand people who think they are racist, and I understand people who think they are not. But people who would single out one or the other are guilty of either inconsistency or hypocrisy.
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i think people should be taught to love themselves period. What if your a women whose father is black and mother white (like my niece). Reading some statements by BW she would feel less than perfect. I want her to embrass her black roots and be proud of them. Thus the trips to see the Gees Bend quilts etc. I also want her to know about her scottish, german and american indian roots. She must be allowed to embrace and love every part of her. not just her black half or her white half.
I have problems with your statement” I do see Black men as the cream of the crop” Because it encompasses so many man it makes it a throw away statement. I have near and dear BM friends who I believe are the cream of the cop of men…standing side by side with WM friends.
I know BM and WM who are horrible jack asses that I wouldnt wish on my worst female enemy. A man is not better because of the color of his skin. Thats like saying “women with DDs are the cream of the crop” or “women under 130 lbs are the cream of the crop.” white men are not better than BM. BM no better than WM. there ARE some BMs who are better than some WMs. And their are WMs better than some BMs. but not all X are better than all Y – that never holds true.
It is valid to prefer someone who comes from a similar background as you – because they have things in common…i.e. russian immigrants living together in a community, japan town etc. But to say any man is the tops because of race alone is ridiculous.
But then – I find the amazing rich deep chocolate skin tones with godlen hues beautiful. I also love the soft peach skin tone of a scottish lass, the red undertones of my welsh husband, the ivory skin of my asian friend. I can not imagine choosing a mate by skin color alone…thats like only liking daisys.
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I agree with some of the other comments. Stereotypes and negative perceptions of BW are affecting them when it comes to dating/marriage.
This was a topic on Tyra Banks show this week.
There was a young BW on there that felt due to bad perceptions of BW, that no one wanted her. Whether it was BM LM AM WM.
The 2 groups who usually suffer from negative stereotypes are BW & AM.
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i agree with laramona. the fact that people want to blame black women because of white men don’t want them because of how they act is ignorant. mike and robert lindsay, both of you are ignorant and generalizing black women as being ghetto, loud, pushy, anything that’s negative when you don’t know EVERY BLACK WOMAN IN AMERICA. we are human beings just as much as any other women of races. yes there are ghetto black women but there are eduacted black women, loving black women, caring black women and so much more but the fact you come up here bashing and assuming that black women are the same just shows how much of a racist you really are. if someone calls you that, you get mad and claim you’re not. i think that’s what abagond meant when some whites are called a racist, they get defensive. i bet if i came up here dissing black men and talking negatively about them, that would make me a racist because i’m disrespecting my own race and own men. i came from a black man and yes there are some bad ones out there that don’t do the right thing but i also see the good in them and the positive side to it. it’s funny to me how ignorant people think they know everything about someone else’s race because of what they see when they don’t even know everybody. mike, maybe the girl you talk to on youtube is probably brainwashed and stupid herself. i’ve seen plenty of white men that want black women regardless of what she looks like and how she acts. my aunt is married to a white man so to say that white men don’t black women is b.s to me. why not get to know a black woman and see how she is before you start assuming she’s just a ghetto, aggressive person because of your experience? and i don’t believe that abagond is trying to start any race war at all. he say what he felt about why white men marry black women without offending anyone. it seems that mike and robert lindsey are the ones who were offended and are making it into a race war. lastly, i think people who love someone for who they are regardless of what race they are. at the end of the day we’re all people.
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Are there really so few WM marrying BW? Check out Baltimore Inner Harbor. It’s interracial-city there.
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Abagond,
I think it’s important to note that ANY MAN who claims to be interested in IRR’s with BW MUST HAVE the BASIC INTELLIGENCE to FIRST see her has a HUMAN BEING WORTHY OF RESPECT. If he CAN’T/WON’T do this, he has NO BUSINESS interacting with BW.
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Based on your angry tone towards white men and your excessive use of capital letters, I would suggest that you are not worthy of my respect.
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Great post Ababgond.
It’s hard to find a white man that likes black women AND isn’t racist (or have preconceived notions about black people in general).
To be honest I’d rather be a lesbian. *Paging Alice Walker*
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I haven’t posted in like two days, but Lynette’s comment is racist. She said that she would only date black men because she loves her blackness.
What does the black community have to say about that? =/
This right here proves the sad reason why white men are notdating black women. Case proved and all of yah have nothin to argue.
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Even if you think Lynette’s comment is “racist”, you have to respect her for being forthright and reasonable. Most of the comments on this page reek of degenerate stupidity or ignorance.
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This is to everyone.
Oh and don’t tell me I have no experience with black women. One thing I can tell you is that black women like me. Do you know how many black women have said that I have the prettiest eyes? At least like 20. Do you know how many black women have said I’m good looking? Like 10. There also have been 3-4 black women who have asked me out with me hardly talking to them. Also, there have been several more that flirt me and show interest.
I remember there was this one really attractive black girl that asked me out… and all the men probably wished they had her. In the end, I didn’t end up dating her. Other black men were telling me not too. Maybe they were mad or jealous.
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To lil vina: The girl on Youtube was very intelligent. Don’t give me that brainwashed shit either. They weren’t brainwashed by aliens you scifi fuck. Also, you want me to find you like 5 videos or more on youtube with blacks supporting whites? Cause I can that kid? Educated blacks support whites. FACT. Ghetto blacks living off welfare and in prison blame whitey for everything. FACT. So, quit being ignorant and get passed your old racist views.
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After having read all of the comments and of course
the post itself. I’m sort of at a loss as to what to
say. There’s so much wrong with the many, many
statements put up here. That said, this is going to
be a long post. I might as well put a tl;dr. You can find it at the end.
I don’t think anyone should be allowed to speak for
black women other than black women themselves. I
don’t particularly believe that any one study or any
one person can put down the exact reason why it
“seems” that black women and white men don’t date
each other.
I do agree with a lot of the comments that black
women are dehumanized by the society we live in,
even by our own culture. Personally, I have
experienced several factors that would usually be
enough to stop anyone for attempting to date a while
man.
1. My Parents made fun of me as a child for having
non-black friends.
— It’s safe to say that if I were to have a date
with anyone outside of my race, they’d make fun of
me for it. This hurts more than anyone could
imagine. It makes me feel like there’s something
wrong with me because I don’t exclusively like black
men.
2. White men are afraid of me.
— It’s true, I’ve only had two encounters with
white guys who have wanted to date me. This was only
after they’d been my friend for upwards of 3 months.
That means that they had to get to know me and shake
all of the stereotypes that our society has set up.
We did not have a long term relationship at all,
because even after all of that they still decided I
was a piece of meat, albeit a more obtainable one
than those ‘scary’ black women that the media
confronts them with left and right. I ended up
breaking it off in a matter of days.
–But, I did get the chance to ask them when they
started liking me. The answer between them: I
thought you were gorgeous when I first saw you, but
I was scared you didn’t like white guys, and that
you were not going to be easy to get along with.
3. I’m not who you take home to mom.
— At least that’s what it seems like they think. I
have to try twice as hard to seem just as nice as
any other girl of any other race. Why? Because
immediately they think I’m a girl who narrowly
escaped the projects, and that obviously I’m bad.
— Guy’s moms do not like me at first sight. I can
spill my credentials all day long (yes I’m a virgin,
yes I can cook, yes I am intelligent) but there’s
always this underlying tone of, she’s black,
something about her is just wrong.
4. I’m not really a human being to them, more of a
novelty.
–The things I do that would seem cute and endearing
when exhibited in a woman of ANY other race seem
strange and hilarious coming from me.
–They justify not wanting to date me because I’m
not intelligent like white women are. But… my
intelligence ranks among the top one percentile in
the nation. I just don’t have the money to actually
go to top colleges. (There’s more than tuition in
getting to school)
—-The truth is that they don’t take me seriously
until they realize that I can outwit them. Once I
can do that, I become some strange and intimidating
anomaly.
5. I’m intimidating.
–What I am: a sensitive, shy, pacifist, vegetarian.
who doesn’t even squish spiders.
–What white guys (as well as AM, MEM, HM, etc.) see:
Tall, strong, angry, vicious, ghetto, proud, snobby.
6. Penis Envy
–I’m a virgin, but those two encounters mentioned
above both told me that they were worried that they
were too small to satisfy me. Then came the awkward
conversation where I mentioned that I was in the v-
club and intended to stay that way until marriage,
for personal reasons, and that I really didn’t have
an inner penis catalogue.
7. White Women are inherently better.
— Let’s just beat this dead horse again, for kicks
and giggles.
— A guy may go one and on for days about the
qualities in a good woman, and I may fit most of
them, but if I’m up against a white girl who’s known
to be promiscuous and disloyal, who only uses men
for money, who’s as false and granny’s teeth, and
who is by no means the sharpest tool in the shed…
I’m out of the running. Because even a white gutter
slut is better than a black woman in America.
8. There are alternatives to Jungle fever.
— Why not date a nice, sweet Asian girl? They are
smart! Or even a middle eastern girl? She’ll
definitely be modest, and have lovely recipes!
Perhaps if you’re looking for a nice curvy body you
should try a Latina. Really son, there’s no reason
for you to go insane. Are you trying to rebel
against us? Don’t bring a black girl into this
house! I don’t want none of that ghetto bullshit
around my family.
Now, I’m in no way making generalizations about why
the connections between black women and white men.
This is just what’s happened to me so far. They
might help to clue you in on some of the reasons.
And it’s not all the white people’s fault. If I
remember correctly, a comment posted about not being
attracted to any one but Black Kings. There’s
nothing wrong with that. But is it truly necessary
to shout it from the rooftops until every man in
America thinks that every black woman he meets is
looking down on him for being non-black? Is it
really that bad for a black woman to be attracted to
men outside of her race?
Honestly, let’s think about the Black King argument.
If it is only proper for a black woman(queen) to
like a black king, then won’t a large portion of us
be out of luck? Generally speaking, it’s hard to
find a good man in any race, and even fewer that
will meet your own needs. I admit, there are some
amazing black guys out there. They make great
friends, but they are not my type. Oh no, I’m being
too picky for my own good. I should just ‘get over
myself’ and go out with this king. Right? Because
that’s the rule, right? Good black women must date
good black men. Bad black women end up with bad
black men.
But of course there’s no way for a normal black
woman, who’s PROUD(!) of her race to be even
minutely attracted to the most beautiful of non-
black men.
The Truth: Most women can and are attracted to men
from every race. It’s our culture that tells us we
aren’t supposed to be, or that said race is an
unobtainable dream. Therefore we push it out of our
mind and stay in the boundaries that cause the least
social pain.
— A side note: We can also find men of our own race
to be ugly. That’s not to say that women who like
men from other races hate their own. No, we have
eyes just like men. There are some features that we
like, some that we don’t. That means we can like one
black guy, a white guy, a middle eastern guy, and a
Hispanic guy, but also think that another man from
each race is as ugly as dirt. Women have the right
to be discerning about their attraction.
And a question: Why is it that people are so quick
to point out ghetto black women? What about white
trash?
–Oh yes, I went there. Those strange second cousins
that white people like to hide in the closet and
pretend that they don’t exist? Well, they do. I can
make a safe bet that if a black woman grows up and
is exposed to white trash and other ideas of
rednecks (real or otherwise), then she may not find any attraction to white people.
But of course that’s no real reason, because hicks
are just there to amuse us. They are no real threat.
It’s the people from the projects that should be
worrisome.
There are plenty of other things to say about this matter. But I’m sure I’ve agitated whoever deigned to read this enough for one post.
TL;DR: Don’t try to bottle every black woman and
white man into that little spectrum you call
scientific reason. There’s lots of reasons, no
amount of ‘study’ or hearsay will ever lay down the
law on the supposed incompatibility between black
women and white men.
Might as well put my credentials: Black woman.
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I agree with Erin. There’s no study that says why white men don’t date black women. Also, she admitted comments like the African King are reasons why white men will not date black women. She even said her parents hated her to have nonblack friends.
She, she is educated unlike the other black supremacists on this site, like Abagond. Guess what Erin, Ababgond is gonna call you a “rented black” for agreeing with some of the comments white people said.
I hope her comment enlightens the black people on this site (ABAGOND)
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We still don’t know if whether Abagond is black or white though. He won’t say whether he is or isn’t. I honestly believe he is a white person trying to stir up racial tension by speaking for the black community. I don’t know though.
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I disagree, mike. I think abagond is a white man trying to feel superior by convincing himself that every white man but him is an angry, misogynist racist.
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Aww, Lynette… your PhD is in African-American studies or some such nonsense? I have lost a lot of respect for you. I was hoping your doctorate was in a legitimate field of study.
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Erin, I read your whole post and it sounds like you’ve been hurt. I’m sorry. The truth is that the world is expansive. Relationships are complex. Don’t think that the people you have met in your life represent all of the people in the world.
Which leads me to something you said:
“I don’t think anyone should be allowed to speak for black women other than black women themselves”
This is just wrong. NO ONE should be able to speak for anyone but THAT PERSON. Period. I am a white man. I cannot and will not try to speak for all white men. No matter how much you think you are “connected” to your social group, or that your experience is “typical”, the truth is that you cannot speak for anyone but yourself. Generalizing about your own race/sex/religion is just as idiotic as generalizing about someone else’s.
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Sorry Lynette, I didn’t consider that. I retract and regret my previous statement. I hope you can forgive me for jumping to that conclusion, I am still reeling in disappointment from reading Michelle Obama’s thesis.
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“Mike” and “Racerealist”,
Why does it matter so much what Abagond’s “race” is? If you two are so progressive and unbiased, then why do you put people in boxes based on your perception of their race? If racism is a thing of the past then why do whites like you get so upset when someone simply points out current day racial inequality?
Lynette,
I appreciate your commentary. It’s a relief to read some geninunely intellectual thought to counter the low-brow commentary of others. Do you have a blog or any, other writings? I’d be interested in checking it out.
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I encourage all blacks to demand he removes these biased topics immediately. He’s racist and is trying to stir up racial tension. He is a white man speaking on behalf of the black community, to get whites frustrated. He then wants us frustrated whites to say even worse things to blacks. Then, before you know it, there is racial tension. I don’t if he’s doing it because he wants a race war, and this is his small part. I really don’t know.
But he’s trying to slam whites with his biased views. And then he gets mad at us when we defend ourselves and prove him wrong.
Where’s his topic : Whites and blacks come together to elect President Obama?
Exactly. Don’t let him speak on your behalf. He’s either a black supremest or a white man in denial trying to speak for the black community.
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Lynette,
Unfortunately, I don’t have a blog either. Yet, I have published some articles in various local outlets. Perhaps, I can upload a few and share them with you.
Out of curiosity, how does such an accomplished, intelligent woman deal with inane, blatant racist commentary like “Mike” and “Racial Realist”‘s?
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Love the way “Mike” and his brethen ignored my question.
Why does Aba’s “race” matter so much to you?
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Erin alone, proved my case and point.
Lysette: If I recall, you said dating a black king. And you said you would only date black men because of your blackness. That is racist either way you look at it. And Erin proved my point.
You specifically stated “race” was a factor in your choosing. Besides skin color and hair, there is no difference between black and white men. They have the same features.
Stop loving somebody because of their blackness and love them because they are kind and respect you. That one comment just made me lose respect for you.
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Hold off kid, you haven’t even given me a minute to speak. I don’t deny the fact that Lysette is intelligent. She has a PHD and seems knowledgeable. That fact is though, she still made a racist comment above. I don’t think it was on purpose, however, it did offend me.
Let’s put it this way. Would she say the same comment on FOX news to America? No, she wouldn’t. Because she would be afraid of losing her job and being labeled as a racist.
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If you wouldn’t say it on television to the world while exposing your face, then it’s probably something that would offend others.
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Lynette – I was not offended by your position…people become way to offended and emotional on these blogs. Yours is just an interesting perspect that I had not considered. I am a huge fan of males in general – i find beauty in all races…and just dont believe I should limit myself.
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And yes, Abagonds race does matter. He is either two things. A black supremest or a white who thinks he is above other whites.
If he is black, then he definitely is a black supremest. If he is white, then he is a white that thinks he is above all whites. Above all whites thinking that he is in the “5” who is not racist.
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Why do you keep calling me racist? What have I ever said that is racist?
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Lynette never said that she dislikes men of other races. She simply said that she loves and appreciates men who look like her father, her brother, her uncle, etc. She has love for black men in a nation that doesn’t. What’s the crime in that? At the end of the day, black women are the only people who truly respect a black man. The whites on her are trying to twist around what she said, aimlessly trying to measure your racism up to Lynette’s geniune ethnic self-pride.
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Re: mike
I don’t think it’s racist for a woman to say that she prefers black men, for whatever reason. People are entitled to their own preferences. Racism, by my definition, is pre-judging or assuming certain qualities about a person based on their racial background.
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Again, Mike,
According to you, racism is just in the mind of militant blacks, right? And there are no real differences between blacks and whites, right?
So, why would it matter what Aba’s race is?
Answer my question.
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No, it wouldn’t be racist if she said it in the same context that mynameismyname or racerealist said it.
That’s fine if she respects black men. That’s fine if she wants to date men who look like her relatives.
But she said she would only date black men, no other race. She said that was her preference. She said she would not date men outside of their blackness. She would only date black kings.
That definitely sounds racist to me. Why would Erin also say it’s racist too? She’s black? What is she racist against her own race?
I already told you why Abas race matters
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Abagonds race does matter. He is either two things. A black supremest or a white who thinks he is above other whites.
If he is black, then he definitely is a black supremest. If he is white, then he is a white that thinks he is above all whites. Above all whites thinking that he is in the “5%″ who is not racist. Who thinks he knows it all when I’ve owned him in every debate we’ve had
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Lynette – you said “I don’t understand the reason why any woman of any color would want to chase any man who is not interested. Anyway, it is very important for Black women to have self-love. I wrote an entire dissertation on African-American body image, and the pressures to assimilate comfortably into the White mainstream society. I think you would find it very interesting.”
I agree. I don’t understand the reason why any woman of any color would want to chase any man who is not interested in them.
dated alot of BMs in HS for that reason. They were the ones that approached me, hit on me and made me feel beautiful and good about myself. I dated mostly BMs up until I was beaten badly by three BW for dating a BM. I was told to stick to my own kind.
Would love to read your disseratation. You might not realize that “white mainstream society’ leaves out alot of white women as well. Not that you need to address white womens problems. You are speaking to a select group that is over looked and I understand that. I do not fit with in mainstream in many ways. Abagonds blog has not only opened my eyes to many race issues, he has helped me find my own value and beauty (even though I am not they type of women he writes about, how he writes about them speaks to me).
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“That’s fine if she respects black men. That’s fine if she wants to date men who look like her relatives.
But she said she would only date black men, no other race. She said that was her preference. She said she would not date men outside of their blackness. She would only date black kings.
That definitely sounds racist to me. Why would Erin also say it’s racist too? She’s black? What is she racist against her own race?”
The ‘kings’ comment could be perceived as a racial attitude, sure. But as you say, ‘That’s fine if she wants to date men who look like her relatives’. So if her relatives are black, and she only wants to date black men, that’s fine right?
I try to give people the benefit of the doubt. If you go around trying to find racism, you will find it, real or perceived. When someone says something that, by your standards, is easy to explain without attributing racist attitudes, you should give them the benefit of the doubt.
Sure, it will cut down on your ability to express self-righteous anger, but it also gives you the ability to distinguish between true racism and “potential” racism.
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To Racerealist: When I say dating men that look like here relatives I mean like height, weight, and features and personality. If her dad is a funny guy, than maybe she would want to find a funny black or white guy. If her dad is tall and muscular, than maybe she would want to date a tall and muscular black or white guy. If her Dad has strong masculine features, than maybe she would want to date a black or white man with strong masculine features. If her Dad has nice stright white teeth, than maybe she would want to date a black or white guy with a good smile and nice hygiene.
When I refer to her family, I don’t mean skin color. Everybody wants to date someone like their family. I read studies where sons will date women similar to their mom. But it doesn’t mean race has to be involved.
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And Lysette. The only reason mynameismyname agrees with you is because he is a black supremest himself. He uses double-standards like no other. He doesn’t find your comment the least bit racist, but he finds Rob Lindsays comment racist about not wanting to date black women that are agressive and ghetto. He said he loved black women, but wouldn’t want to date one that was ghetto and loud. That was his preference too. But mynameismyname slammed him for racism.
So if racerealist and mynameismyname do not find Lysettes comment racist, then you better admit you were using double-standards when saying Rob Lindsays comment is racist. Because he has his own preferences too. Agree?
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I don’t see why skin color is fundamentally different from height, muscularity, sense of humor, dental hygiene, et cetera in terms of personal taste.
Race is a slightly different matter. Hypothetically, Halle Berry could be a very dark-skinned white and Anne Hathaway could be a very light-skinned black. I don’t think that would discourage black men who like black women from pursuing Halle Berry.
But one would have to be intentionally oblivious to ignore the fact that there is a correlation between skin color and racial background.
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Everything I say is right. I research everything and pull up quotes. I’m not racist. I’m racist against people who are racist. That makes me sound racist sometimes.
Racerealist and mynamameismyname, you guys are going to sound really stupid then if you don’t acknowledge Rob Linsays comment about not wanting to date ghetto black women. You guys slammed him for being racist when that is his preference.
Man double-standards like no other. I know you guys are the type that can never be wrong, but you admit to it at some point. I’m never wrong because I reasearch everything and pull up quotes and videos.
So come on racerealist and mynameismyname. Admit were quick to judge Rob Lindsay when he said that he liked black women, but not ghetto loud black women. Admit you guys used the typical double-standards.
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To Mike:
“If he is white, then he is a white that thinks he is above all whites. Above all whites thinking that he is in the “5%″ who is not racist.”
I take it at face value that Abagond is white guy who is married to a black woman. I sincerely doubt he feels that he is better than most white folks.. but he apparently believes that his belief system regarding race is the correct path. I am pretty sure that people who have tried to convert me to Christianity didn’t think they were above me, on the contrary, several implied or outright stated they thought I was smarter than them. It often upset them that I couldn’t accept Jesus as the son of g-d. In a similar vein I think Abagond would be quite happy if a large majority of white people thought about race in the way he does. By the way, I don’t mean this as an insult to Christians or Abagond, there are merits, in my opinion, to some parts of Christianity as there are to some parts of Abagond reasoning but there are large parts of both that I find that don’t really jibe with my worldview or experience.
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If you find nothing racist about Lynettes comment on dating, then you must also agree that Rob Lindsays comment on dating was not racist either. Don’t give me that shit that his was more racist. He had a preference and he said it. He said he like black women and their features, but that he would never date a ghetto, loud black women. If that’s who wants to date, than that’s who he want’s to date. That doesn’t make him racist then.
So what I do want? I want ignorant people like racerealist and mynameismyname to attest to the fact of using double-standards. To say her comment is not racist, is definitely to say Rob’s comment is not racist. How dare you harass him for that.
Case proved and I’m right again. Just admit. I’m always fair in what I say. I hate all racism period –black and white.
I’ve said it several times. Where the Abagond’s post: Blacks and white’s march together during MLK rally to preach equality.
or: Whites and blacks elect President Obama
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mike: I don’t know what you’re referring to when you make claims about something I said regarding Robert Lindsay. He has his own blog which contains a lot of extreme opinions that I do not agree with. My problem with both you and abagond is that you both speak in absolutes. You both think that anyone who agrees with you is wise, and anyone who disagrees is a fool.
What is the point of having a discussion if you’re not willing to listen to people who disagree with you? If you just want to broadcast your opinions to the world, write a book. The best quality of internet blogs is the ability for all kinds of people from around the world to contribute their perspective and learn from each other. If you come in believing that your point of view is all-encompassing and infallible, you’re missing out on a lot.
As to the lack of posts about the many examples of racial unity in the USA – everyone who starts a blog has their own motives and agenda. If abagond wants to focus on schisms between the races, that’s his right. If you want to start a discussion about other subjects, make your own blog. I’m posting here to provide counter-arguments to the content of the blog, even though it seems like abagond and many of the other comment posters have completely closed their minds to conflicting ideas.
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anyone who has read this blog for longer than a week knows abagond is a BM – not that it matters…but he lives his life as a BM – looking out through HIS eyes. His life experiences color his opinions. He doesnt hide his race…read the about section on his collumn folks.
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“He doesnt hide his race…read the about section on his collumn folks.”
Quote please. I don’t see it.
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Okay so I see West Indian now. That’s not quite the same as “black”, unless you define it very broadly.
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Mike: Abagond can call me what he likes, he’s entitled to his opinion. Also, I don’t believe anything I said proved your points. I was only relating personal experience. That Black Kings portion was not towards Lynette. It was hashing out a gripe against what I’ve been told all of my waking life. She’s entitled to her own attractions. That doesn’t make her racist.
Lynette: Yes, I’m very very young. I admit that. I’ve only got 18 years under my belt, and so far most of my smarts is only in books. But, it’s not that I’m not strong and that I’m not proud of who I am. It’s just that these things don’t define how I’m attracted. Nor did I say it was wrong for you to like black men. I did say it was wrong for so many people to tout it as being the only proper option for black women to pursue.That was not a personal attack on you, but Black Kings made it easier to discern between nice guys and mean guys who both happen to be black.This is the argument I’ve been faced with since a very young age, when I was expected to start dating. (That’s right, expected. What a can of worms that is.)
I would probably enjoy reading that dissertation.I enjoy dissertations.
racerealist: I have been hurt but I don’t mind it so much anymore, nor do I let myself believe that those two idiots I dated are the representatives for their race.
As for that quote, it should have said “I don’t think anyone should be allowed to speak for black women other than THE black women themselves”
I guess I must have over looked it. Sorry to cause offense with the omission. I try not to generalize where I can. One loses friends that way.
Davida: I am sorry to hear about how you were treated by black women. It makes me hurt inside to hear about that sort of thing. They were projecting their insecurities on to you, and finding a problem with your whiteness. That’s so bothersome. But don’t let it stop you. I congratulate you for being so attractive that men are willing to overcome their preconceptions and judgments in order to ask you out.
Side Note: I do agree that body image is important for all women regardless of their race. It’s just not as easy to have as older people think. I’m still young, and not being able to attract ANY guys ,no matter what the race, makes me feel like I’m a poor example of a woman. I mean, no offense, but you’re older and settled in with a husband. You’ve been through the uncertainty (or perhaps you were popular) and may have forgotten the feeling of worthlessness that so many girls have to struggle through.
I’m still starting out, and the world is telling me that I should have had relationship experience starting in middle school, or high school at the latest. I’m sure that this sort of rejection feels the same for every young woman who can’t seem to get a date, while the girls next door have a new boyfriend every week. I’ve seen white women, asian women, latina women, and middle eastern women all struggle with the same things.
It’s not my race that makes me this way. My blackness is not the root of my (lack of) self-esteem. I know for a fact that girls from other races face the same problems as I do when it comes to self-love. That’s a lesson better taught to the entire modern world.
I hope that all made sense.
tl;dr- I’m trying not to generalize. Everyone deserves a chance. And, I don’t hate myself because I’m black. I was taught to hate myself because I’m a woman.
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To racerealist:
what Abagond said:
“I am in fact part of the wave of middle-class West Indians who left the city in the 1990s to bring up their children.”
“Okay so I see West Indian now. That’s not quite the same as “black”, unless you define it very broadly.”
I had thought I read somewhere on his blog that he was white. As you probably know the majority of the residents of the Caribbean would be probably described as black but there a number of whites, indigenous people, and Asians. (most of the latter are in Trinidad/Tobago..)
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So Erin. Would you agree that generalizing whites as the reason why there’s a lack of interracial couples is unfair? Because you even said it yourself that you were raised to hate white people. Don’t you think that could be part of the reason why there is a lack of white/black couples in the U.S.?
Racerealist: Just admit that you did use some double-standards against Rob Lindsay.
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Erin – i was on the outside looking in for most of HS. People wrote “your really nice but kinda weird” in my year book. After I was beaten by those girls I actually became fearful of BW for a time – and scared to date BM. I ended up dating a WM (well boy) who abused me. He called me “Slim” because “your not – ohhh” (said in a Andrew Dice Clay voice) I wanted so desperately to fit in. I hated my body and alot of who I was. I took to cutting myself for about a year. I dated boys who treated me poorly, starved myself until I ended up in the hospital and thought about killing myself…Now – at 32 – mother of three sons and wife to a wonderful man…there is nothing in the world that would make me want to be in HS again. I remember the depression, the fear and the rejection. I can almost taste my desperation to fit in.
You do not have to have a relationship in HS and JH…in fact i would say – boys that age are singularly unready to have a relationship. Wait erin. wait and be yourself. Be strong and confident in who you are. And the RIGHT man will notice you. You dont need a man to complete you.
Being a women is amazing. You need to get in touch with your inner women. For years I would refer to myself as a girl. A coworker once complimented me and said I was a smart women. I repeated it to my boss…but said girl. Suddenly I realized that I did this all the time. I thought of myself as a girl…I was uncomfortable with the idea of being a women. Further self analysis revealed that when I fully embrace my women hood – coworkers and friends liken me to a force of nature (pretty sur thats good). i was scared of my womenhood. Being a women is wonderful. We nuture, we give life, we care for the world. without women there would be no civilazation. feeling a child grow inside you, giing birth and nursing the child are things only a women can do. It is amazing.
I am not beautiful. I am pretty average in looks. But when I am comfortable and confident in who I am – and I summon my inner earth goddess…I am a force of nature. And you can be too. Never hate your womenhood. I bet Lynette can explain this better. I just know that I used to hate who I was. And I have learned to love who I am.
I have stretch marks on my tummy, a bump on my broken nose, and I weigh 200 lbs. But I feel radiant and beautiful most of the time…because I believe that I am inside. I admit I dont like my own reflection (stretch marks are soo gross)- but I am dealing with that. And no one will ever make me feel bad about who I am ever again. I am 32 – and I didnt get to this state of mind until I was close to 30.
Being 18 sucks girl…but hang in there – it passes.
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i am pretty sure he said he was black somewhere – not that it matters one iota. I have been reading his blog for over a year now…soo it all blurs together.
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Amen to Davida. This is my theory.
This is my theory. No woman is born ugly. Most women are in fact beautiful. It just depends on how they make themselves look. I’m serious about this. There’s a show called “Made”. And there will be the ugliest, nerdiest women. But once they get made over, they are hot. Any woman can be attractive. All you have to do it put on make-up, do your hair, keep your skin nice, dress good, and maintain a good weight.
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I’ve noticed this a lot. Women are not born ugly. They make themselves look ugly. Any girl can be attractive if she wears make-up,dresses good, does her hair, straightens her teeth, and maintains a healthy body weight. I’ve seen it over and over again.
It’s not the same for guys though. Guys that are ugly are really just ugly.
Women that are ugly are ugly because they don’t take care of themselves as mentioned above.
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To Davida:
“i am pretty sure he said he was black somewhere – not that it matters one iota.”
For the most subjects on his blog I would agree. However, I think his position and views regarding white guys marrying black women would be inherently more abstract unless he were a white male himself.
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I agree Uncle Milton.
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Its not so much “if she wears make-up,dresses good, does her hair, straightens her teeth, and maintains a healthy body weight”
without make up, if I care for my skin – it looks nice.
dresses good means dress appropriate for her body – A 200 lb women can look better than a 120 lb women if she wears clothes that flatters.
Healthy weight is ideal – but i think its about confidence and being self aware. Also – a smile goes a long way. shoulders back, head up, a smile on my face goes miles
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mike just shut the hell up because you’re nothing but ignorance and think you know everything with your stupid views when you don’t. shut up and read a goddamn book.
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Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh lil vina, tough statement.
“Nothing but ignorance”
Alright, remind me how I’m ignorant again?
That’s right. Go play on train tracks and get hit by a train. No one wants you alive.
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no one wants me alive? is that the best you can come up with? you are a sad man with no brains at all. like i said go read a book and get a life mike. LOL!
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thanks abagond. obviously this dude think he knows everything and say some b.s that no one wants me alive? ha i’m glad to be alive and don’t need some fake ass internet bully telling me that.
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blah blah blah, ya’ll some real nerds for sure. How do you even get so mad about another person’s comments made over the internet? You have low self-esteem girl. Go talk to Davida on how to raise your confidence.
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Abagond, I still say that you need to get a life. You must have a lot of free time on your hands to respond to everyone’s comments. Go raise your kids before getting caught up in the computer world. Alright buddy? You need to be more social and get out of the house. I know I do. I smoked like 6 joints yesterday and banged the hell out of a hot chick. Your probably some fat ugly person who sits on their ass all day. Put a pic of yourself on here. After all, this is your site.
Lil vine: “go read a book”
Is that supposed to be an insult or something? Last time I checked, it was good to read. It would probably do you some good if you read a book, too. You lack intelligence like your boy Abagond.
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Mike, how dare you say someone need to get a life, when you spend your entire day trolling on a blog???
Abagond, damn, do you just let people roll over you like that? How can you let some troll disrespect your blog by making very nasty remarks about taking someone’s life and expound relentelessy with a bunch of racist garbage? Do something! Gain some order, set some standards. Come on now, man. This is pathetic. Not you, but what you allowed “Mike” and the other trolls to turn this blog into.
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Mike said to lil’vina:
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh lil vina, tough statement.
“Nothing but ignorance”
Alright, remind me how I’m ignorant again?
That’s right. Go play on train tracks and get hit by a train. No one wants you alive.
I do. Get lost.
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I have put a new comment policy in place:
In short, if you use bad language, like “shut the fuck up”, or call people names, like bitches and idiots, then I will delete your comment. If you keep doing it, then I will mark you as spam.
Mike has taught me that people like that are not very serious and cause more harm than good.
I warned both mike and racerealist that they were getting out of line. Racerealist took it to heart, I think, but mike went on being an asshole. So he is banned. Not for his racist ideas but because of how he was acting towards other commenters.
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Despite what mike said about me, I thought Erin’s first comment (#62) was excellent, maybe the best one for this page so far. She was honest, used her own experience, did not jump to conclusions and thought for herself despite what she was taught to believe growing up. It is almost the opposite of the stereotyping that some commenters have been doing on this topic.
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Lynette vs. Robert Lindsay:
Lynette stated a preference for her own race. That is pretty natural. Nearly everyone marries inside their own race. To call that racist would stretch the word into meaninglessness.
If Robert Lindsay had said that he preferred white women because to him they seemed to be the prettiest or the hottest or because he has more in common with them, then I doubt anyone would object.
But what Lindsay did instead was to stereotype black women based on very limited experience. I doubt, for example, that he would have sworn off of white women based on an equally limited experience of them.
And because his stereotype was such a common one it seemed like it did not come from his experience at all – that the stereotype came first and he read black women according to it.
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I don’t recall being “warned”. I can’t imagine anyone who would find anything that I’ve said “offensive”.
And abagond, you’re one to criticize other people for generalizing about other races when you seem to have absolutely no problem with making broad, completely unfounded generalizations about white men.
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Abagond – excellent new policy.
I shuddered when Mike used me as a reference to lil’vina. He is a cyber bully.
To restate simiply my points to this post.
1) Racicim and racial difference lower the number of WM to BM couples for some people
2) cultural differences have an impact.
3) Body Language may be telling the wrong message
4) a women she be herself and the right man will notice – regardless of race.
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I agree with everything Lynette said.
The mainstream standard of beauty is harmful to all women, but it especially opresses black women who are told they are inferior and undesirable because by large, their phenotypes are the polar opposite of the ideal Nordic female’s.
I also think that Erin is brilliant. I just want to tell her that you are VERY worthy. It doesn’t matter who finds you attractive or when you’ll have a romantic relationship, that’s secondary to your own self love. Once you embrace yourself, as you should (because you defintely appear to be very intelligent), everything will fall in its place.
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I don’t have anything else important to say but I wanted to post my thanks for all of the compliments. They made me smile.
(:
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You’re welcome, Erin!
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Mike said: “When I refer to her family, I don’t mean skin color. Everybody wants to date someone like their family. I read studies where sons will date women similar to their mom. But it doesn’t mean race has to be involved.”
Yes, men tend to MARRY (not necessarily date) women who look similar to their mothers. And, yes, it is regardless of race (women care much more about race). There tend to be certain traits men look for in their mates that match their mothers (I was reading a book about it at the bookstore this afternoon — trying to remember everything…): hair color, face shape (round, oval, etc.), height, personality, and IQ.
My mother-in-law, for example is short, dark-haired, cat-eyed, oval-faced, voluptuous, highly intelligent, and outgoing with a vibrant sense of humor. Just like I am. Everyone comments on it and jokes about how he managed to marry her twin. She’s also white and I’m biracial. Go figure. And when we met I even had my hair cut really short like hers (Halle Berry -style). It was uncanny. My husband’s ex-girlfriend also was short, curvy, short dark-haired, and vibrant.
A black (not biracial) cousin of mine is married to a white man and I saw a wedding picture with the parents and the newlyweds all lined up last weekend. I totally cracked up. She looks like a younger version of her mother-in-law, just dipped in dark chocolate. Strangely, they even have the same nose and lips. I started laughing and she just looked at me and rolled her eyes. “Yeah, I know. Everyone laughs when they see that picture. I don’t think I look anything like her.”
Guys are weird like that. But women are the same way sometimes. My husband and father have the same job (electrical engineers), almost identical IQ scores (both in the profoundly gifted range), both served in the military, same EXACT height, same longish-oval faces, same physique, same medium-brown hair, same deep voices, same hobbies and interests (they get along really well), and same annoying/endearing personality traits. They even have the same favorite foods. W-E-I-R-D. I never even noticed until my mother pointed it out, “Geez, it’s like you married the white version of your dad!”
And if I think back, EVERY guy I had a longer relationship with had similar traits. I dated black guys, asian guys, white American guys, British guys, and German guys but they all followed the same pattern. And when I think about my closest girlfriends and relatives, it’s the same thing (and they all also dated interracially). I guess we all just stick with what we know and are comfortable with.
ANYWAY: the interesting thing in the book was that they said that research says that ALL OTHER THINGS BEING EQUAL, men were more likely to have sex with women who are of a different race (makes reproductive sense) and marry women of the same race (makes sense culturally).
They went on to say that the second link is getting weaker, year by year. That is, now that culture is no longer strictly defined by race but often by social class, occupation, religion, etc., men are more likely to marry the women they just want to mate with, and that this is their guess for why the number of interracial marriages is at a steady increase.
And they said that this explains why interracial marriages are more common the higher up the social-ladder you climb. And that now that more black women are college-education and in powerful positions the number of interracial marriages involving black women is climbing at a corresponding rate.
It was an interesting book called “Do Men Really Prefer Blonds?” or some such.
BTW, their answer to that question is: only in countries in which blonds are scarce, such as Italy and France. In Scandinavia and Germany the overwhelming majority of men prefer brunettes.
Fascinating stuff…
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Oh! This also reminds me of a section in “The Hemingses of Monticello” (great book, BTW) in which they discuss why Thomas Jefferson had an affair with Sally Hemmings. After all, if he just had a thing for dark-skinned girls why didn’t he choose someone else (apparently Monticello was famously overflowing with good-looking black women)?
Well, Sally was his beloved dead-wife’s half-sister and apparently looked like a caramel-colored image of her (and both were considered unusually pretty). In other words, he picked her because she looked and behaved familiar to him; more familiar than the white women he came into contact with.
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Lynette –
Thank you for taking the time to respond to me. I understand your point. As much as I feel overlooked by mainstream white beliefs, a black women feels more so. I never thought that I should be included in your dissertation. I am interested in reading it though. Anything I can learn or read about that will assist my niece and nephew in embracing their black heritage….which until know was a mystery to me, i am interested in. I can tell them about scotts or germans or american indidans….but I know nothing of a black womens life experience. And I think this viewpoint is equally important to my niece as is my own german/scot/indian experience. she has her father – but he cant speak to her about being a black women….her grandmother is elderly, and so her mother and I want to make sure she is in touch with all the women that come togehter to make up her heritage. I love being a women…women are amazing and powerful creatures. I want my niece to embrace all if her past.
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Oh, yeah. One more thought.
I’ve read that power (sometimes displayed through wealth) makes a man’s race irrelevant to women and beauty does the same for women.
Is that true? Anecdotally, it seems to be so.
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well i’m glad mike is gone. to tell me i need a life when he’s the one bugging people with his ignorance.
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Lynette Says:
“However, research has consistently shown that Black women continue to suffer in regards to self-esteem when other physical features come into play. This is because of a long history of being made to feel like their features were undesirable. This is why I decided to focus my attention on the African-American female, but I do agree that women of all colors experience the pressures to conform.”
Lynette, I do agree that historically the characteristics of African American women were not appreciated by mainstream beauty standards. But wouldn’t you agree that perception has significantly improved in more recent years, especially when you consider there are many more AA women celebrities on the scene, who are regarded as very desirable by the mainstream?
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True, A White Guy,
There’s many very attractive black starlets in the public eye yet as Abagond has documented very well, the ones that much (certainly not all) of the general white public seem to pay any attention tend to look similar to a white woman in some way.
It’s as if appreciating a black woman who’s distinctly black-looking (which varies, as people of black African descent are the most diverse, phenotypically) would deter from their mental racial heirachy. Black is meant to be the opposite of white, so white women=beauty and femininity while black women=ugly and unfeminine. It’s that line of imprinted societal thought that needs to be dismantled.
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If Lynette agrees that it’s okay for people to prefer mates of their own race, why is it not okay for society in general to mostly prefer white (or white-looking) women? After all, society in general is mostly white.
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In reference to comment #90, Davida why is it that you think BMs were attracted to you in high school? I think it may be cultural differences. I think a beautiful woman is a beautiful woman regardless of her race but due to culture the things we find beautiful differs – do you think that your looks appealed to black males more than that of white ones? If so why is that? In my experience, mostly black men have been attracted to me, but quite often I’m approached by WM. I think that may be because I’m thin – and WM are more inclined to find that beautiful more so than BM. And since you are curvy, do you think that is why you appeal to BM?
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Well, Racerealist,
It’s okay to prefer people who look like you. That’s not really the issue. The trouble begins when you deem someone to be subordinate because they don’t look like you. Having a “preference” doesn’t mean that one should discriminate against others who don’t fit it.
U.S. society isn’t as white as it used to be. Whites are now merely a simple majority; no longer an overwhelming one. If you doubt this fact, all you have to do is look at who our President is. The majority of white voters didn’t vote for him, yet he still won didn’t he?
Also, two-thirds of the general world population is not white. Whites are a global minority. Always have been. That a minority of people have caused so much trauma and colonized so much of the world speaks volumes, but that’s a whole ‘nother conversation.
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strangefruit – I think it is my hips and backside that attract BM. In High school I had a very low WHR – they called me jessica rabbit. Even today – after three babies and about 50 lbs weight gain – I get hit on by BMs as I walk down the street – before they even see my face. Depresses me sometimes…I feel like no one evens sees my face sometimes.
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“Having a “preference” doesn’t mean that one should discriminate against others who don’t fit it.”
Umm… I don’t know what to say to this. It is completely at odds with any kind of logic and reason.
If I prefer X, I will choose X over Y. Yes, that means that I will discriminate against Y. In fact, I will discriminate against all non-X. I prefer X.
You cannot prefer X without discriminating against some non-X.
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Racerealist said logic insinuates that if a a heterosexual female dates/prefers men (being that she is heterosexual) then she discriminates against women. I think it is flawed. Having a preference and discriminating are two different things. You can prefer one thing without discriminating against the other.
Davida – that’s what I was getting at. Your body type might appeal more to BMs than WMs due to cultural differences.
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Davida, on a lot of your posts you speak about getting hit on or how guys are attracted to you. I congratulate you on that, but I would feel a little awkard stating that in so many of my posts. I’m not trying to criticize. This is just an observation.
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racerealist said:
“Having a “preference” doesn’t mean that one should discriminate against others who don’t fit it.”
Umm… I don’t know what to say to this. It is completely at odds with any kind of logic and reason.
If I prefer X, I will choose X over Y. Yes, that means that I will discriminate against Y. In fact, I will discriminate against all non-X. I prefer X.
You cannot prefer X without discriminating against some non-X.
Good point.
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Thank god that mike has gone!!! i could not bear it if he returned.
lets get back to honest discussion folks!!
Whatever the why’s or therefore’s, if you are lucky enough to find true and honest deep love i congratulate you and ask that you hold onto and cherish it!!
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Also, as a fellow west indian…. (born and bred in england) may i say we are black, we are mixed, we are carib, taino, chinese, indian and sometimes white.
we are cosmopolitan also.
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Abagond and “Racerealist”,
Let’s say I have a preference for oranges over apples. Do I have disparage and discriminate against apples because oranges would be my obvious choice? Having a preference doesn’t neccessarily mean that you dislike or disrespect what isn’t your preference. That makes sense, no?
Lynette,
Exactly. The one minor “gripe” I have, however, when this subject comes up is the idea of a so-called “Afrocentric” beauty. Broad noses, thick lips, tightly curled hair and pitch black skin is what white colonists decided as the uniform “authenthic black look”.
In reality, black people are the most diverse in terms of phenotype. So much so, that there a primary “Afrocentric” look doesn’t exist. Ghanaians, for example, vary dramatically in looks depending on which region you’re on. And they’re all from the same country! LOL.
So, in my opinion, Halle Berry, although the most obvious example of what we talking about, does represent Western black women in terms of physical appearance. She wouldn’t exactly stand out among the average black woman in the U.S., phenotypically. Yet then again, that’s based on almost entirely on individual perception.
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mynameismyname: I agree that black people are the most diverse in phenotype. We are also the most underrepresented on those claims. If we are so diverse, why is it that most of the black women in the public eye are pressured to look more mainstream? Remember Jordin Sparks before she won? How about Oprah Winfrey back in 1986? They look so much different now, and I still can’t see what was so wrong with how they looked before.
Now then, Halle Berry, on the other hand, has looked pretty consistent over the years. So even though she’s not representative of all of the black women out there, I can accept that she’s a black beauty.
But my last point is that there is definitely something that separates African and African American looks from other phenotypes. Otherwise, how else would we be able to tell the difference in between a person from say… rural India, where their skin is just a dark or even darker than those of people of African descent? There is something unique in the way a black (asian, latina, middle eastern)person is built, and the mainstream tries to sift out as much of that as it can while still being able to say that it accepts/encourages diversity.
Lynette: I think the problem with self love is not necessarily the examples of beauty. I do admit that they have some impact, but if the world were to make a sudden change and ethnic beauties became mainstream, that would still tell girls what to think of themselves. Even if all of the super models had very uniquely ethnic features that matched their race, the minor nuances between every person would still leave a lot of people left out. I don’t think we should blame beauty-models like Halle Berry as much as we should blame the idea that what the media says is what is right.
I think little girls should be taught that they are beautiful because they look like themselves, not because they look like Halle Berry,or Angela Bassett or even because they look like the Ghanaian woman on Wikipedia.
Also, I’d love to read your dissertation if it’s published.
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Anon – you are right – I do tend to be my own biggest fan.
the topic was about why white men might not approach BW. I was suggesting it had to do with a cultural difference between the two groups. I was pointing to why men approach me as an example I guess.
Or perhaps – married 12 years to a good man but he does not often tell me I am beautiful (he believes adults shouldnt need other people to stroke their ego and if asked if he thinks I am attractive replies with “why would I marry an ugly women”) perhaps I just need to tell myself that I am attractive…loudly and in a public forum. we all have issues – and mine is I think pretty obvious to anyone who reads my comments….can we all label me desperate for attention and be done with it?
I actually dont think I am all that attractive externally. It puzzles me that I get hit on so much. I believe it has to do with my body language, confidence and smile more than a perfect body. I can give you a list of my flaws that would fill your computer monitor and then some.
I also have a short attention span and easily get off tract in my own comments. it possibly has something to do with the ODDLES of espresso I drink. What were we talking about again? Just kidding.
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Erin said “I think little girls should be taught that they are beautiful because they look like themselves, not because they look like…insert any other women here ”
Amen Erin – not just other famouse women but – older sisters, younger sisters, mothers, other women in our lives can all negatively impact a young girl if we feel we dont measure up.
My little sister is taller and thinner than me and blonde. Our faces and voices are alot alike though. Yet, I always feel second best when compared to her. I am always looking for her approval. And yet, she looks to me for approval in other areas…each of us jealous of the other…which is so silly.
You will always be better than some and worse than others…if you compare yourself to someone else. Its best to set your inner compass to who you want to be…and go from there.
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Dedabets: “I actually dont think I am all that attractive externally. It puzzles me that I get hit on so much.”
I used to have the same puzzlement but I think (with my husband’s help) I’ve figured it out now.
We’re confusing attractiveness and beauty. Once you get over the “generally pretty” threshold the deciding factor is approachability. As in, does a man find you approachable, open, friendly? Do you look intelligent and interesting? Do you make him feel comfortable and does your smile say, “Hey, you seem nice!”? If that is so, they’ll speak up. It doesn’t matter how gorgeous you are, you have to look like someone they’d actually want to spend some time with.
Remember Heidi Klum and Halle Berry became famous beauties because of their SMILES. It’s really true! There are gorgeous swim-suit models by the dozen but their faces really jump out of the page at you. They both look intelligent, approachable, cheerful, and unpretentious (but not like airheads). Men eat that stuff up!
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Lynette said:
Erin,
I will send you the link to my dissertation. However, I’m not sure if you want to make your email address public.
You have to enter your email address to comment here, so I already have them. I would like to read your dissertation too (how long is it? – well, at least a good part of it then). You can email it to me and I will forward it to whoever is interested that you want to send it to.
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Lynette and Erin,
I agree almost wholeheartedly with both of your previous comments.
Even without the admixture, people of black Africans are the most diverse, by far. West Africans and East Africans, for example, run the gamut, in terms of skin shades, physical features and hair textures. I really wish that we lived in a nation that provided a full glimpse of Africa instead of the slanted, biased images of flies and famine that we are bombarded with on the nightly news. Black Americans would think of themselves in a whole ‘nother way if they knew the truth.
I personally find both Miss Union and Miss Bassett to be more beautiful than Miss Berry. I also agree, they are both very represenative of black American women. Yet, so is Berry. In fact, most of the time, in films that are targeted to the black audience, the black cast members look very representative of black Americans. I’ve expounded on this blog before about the potential liability of being a black actor who doesn’t look “traditionally black”.
Erin,
Well, Berry has had a nose job. I believe that even she’ll admit to that. So, maybe she hasn’t been so consistent. Then again rhinopasty is intended to be subtle, if done well.
And you’re very right, there is something distinct about a black person’s phenotype. Hence, why East Indians, for instance, usually aren’t mistaken for black.
Unfortunately, we live in a nation that HAS to deintergrate blackness in order to glorify whiteness. Hence why the vast diversity and beauty that black Americans inherently displayed is usually downplayed or diluted.
“I think little girls should be taught that they are beautiful because they look like themselves, not because they look like Halle Berry,or Angela Bassett or even because they look like the Ghanaian woman on Wikipedia.”
EXACTLY! Amen!
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mynameismyname: “Unfortunately, we live in a nation that HAS to deintergrate blackness in order to glorify whiteness.”
When I was living in the States I also thought that the more light-skinned black people must all be mixed. Then I lived in Europe for 10 years and met black people who were actually born and raised in Africa and were not mixed (within the last few generations, at least). I was shocked. Some of them just looked like Europeans or Asians or Middle Easterners with a dark tan. Africa is definitely much more diverse than I had realized.
I’d love to travel there. I had a Tanzania colleague and a Senegalese neighbor and they both showed me the most BEAUTIFUL photographs. One day…
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The way I think of it is this: every race came out of the black race. Because mutations are rare that means nearly every gene that you find anywhere else in the world can also be found in Africa – because that is where it came from.
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That is a very interesting way to put it.
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And then there is the fact that Africans were great travelers and merchants.
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Anon – you are right – I do tend to be my own biggest fan.
Dedebets, lol! It’s cool. Thanks for not getting upset with me for my observation. I have the opposite problem. Men rarely approach me. But it’s fine, I have other strengths.
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The way I think of it is this: every race came out of the black race. Because mutations are rare that means nearly every gene that you find anywhere else in the world can also be found in Africa – because that is where it came from.
That’s a simplistic, if not outright incorrect, way to look at it. Even assuming that “out of Africa” hypothesis is correct — and there is some evidence indicating that it may not be — it is obvious that more than a few gene variants arose (and formerly common variants were eliminated) after different human populations had become geographically isolated.
Regarding the original point: yes, Africans are more genetically diverse than, say, whites/Europeans. Which, incidentally, makes the pseudo-scholarly attempts to deny the material reality of the white race based on its heterogeneity and/or fuzzy boundaries so ironic.
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Lynette,
I know exactly where you’re coming from and agree to an extent. Yet, if you want to use the media as an example, there’s still enough beautiful black women in the industry who are extremely represenative of their race. If some young girls are more inclined to have the desire to look more like Halle Berry than Keke Palmer, Kyla Pratt or Camille Winbush, doesn’t that say more about their own inner biases?
You’re right about there being more Gabby Unions (an intelligent way in saying that Miss Union looks like a “typical black”) than Halle Berrys but Berry’s phenotype is hardly atypical for a black woman. Show me a town where most of the black women look like Gabby Union though! I will move there in a second! LOL.
Aba,
Exactly. There’s reason for the vast diversity in not only phenotypes but culture. It’s extremely fascinating.
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LOL, Noserviam,
Nothing sets white folks off more than bringing up the idea of life civilization originating from …black Africans! LOL.
That says a lot about how blacks are viewed.
And please, do not try to engage me in a debate, Noserviam and the crew. This was just a simple comment.
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sedlmeier1 Says:
“Remember Heidi Klum and Halle Berry became famous beauties because of their SMILES. It’s really true! There are gorgeous swim-suit models by the dozen but their faces really jump out of the page at you. They both look intelligent, approachable, cheerful, and unpretentious (but not like airheads). Men eat that stuff up!”
But those ladies and ladies like them always complain about not getting approached by men. Halle Berry said that she had to actually approach her current boyfriend because he didn’t make a move. In fact, according to her, she almost always makes the first move. I think that men already assume that already are taken or they are too apprehensive about approaching because they assume that men approach all of the time, which is not true. I think that I come off as intelligent and unpretiounous, but I’m not approached unless the guy has a lot of money or intellectuals. But how many of those men are walking around?
I know that some people are kinda self-congratulatory if they are approached a lot by men, but there is so many different factors involved with that. If being approached makes a woman feel better about herself, then I am all for it!
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anon: a quick question. I’m not arguing but I want to know your take on those who approach guys but still can’t get a date. There are lots of girls who don’t get approached, then build up the courage to ask someone(hoping they just have the Halle Berry syndrome) and are then shot down. What makes them different?
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Erin, thats a good question. I will say that it doesn’t have anything to do with the girls’ personally (looks, personality, intelligence) because there are more average girls who have no problem meeting men. I’ve found that there is no rhyme or reason to a man’s taste. It’s more a matter of if a girl approaches a guy and gets shot down, she just might not be his type OR you might be intimating to him in some way. Some men want to take the easy way out – they want a woman, if she is not too much work. So if you are too pretty, too intelligent, too whatever, he feels that he may have to up his game to keep you because you have options.
Bottom line – whether your a girl with the “Halle Berry Syndrome” or one who approaches and gets shot down, it’s all the same. You’re too intimidating! You’re not different, but the same in that respect.
I’ve known of women who played down their looks or their intelligence or tall women who don’t wear their heels just to attract a guy. One thing to remember – never downplay you’re assets to attract a man. A man worth having is a man with standards and who celebrate your assets and not threatened by them.
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There were quite a few comments about the origin of civilization. I deleted those. They were way off topic.
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It’s amazing that some of the above posters have a problem with Black women having preference for Black men. The fact is that the majority of Americans tend to marry within their racial groups. If Black women choose to date/marry Black men or other men of Color, it’s their business, not others.
La Reyna
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“But those ladies and ladies like them always complain about not getting approached by men. Halle Berry said that she had to actually approach her current boyfriend because he didn’t make a move.”
Well, I always have to make the first move, too, for any man that I ended up dating or marrying (i.e. my husband). But I was never starving for attention, KWIM? And I always got a positive reaction, which made me bolder the next time, of course.
And it is possible that Halle is just TOO gorgeous and the guys are too busy pulling their tongues off the floor to speak.
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A lot of women are TOO gorgeous, that’s what makes men intimidated to approach them.I don’t make the first move, but I rarely get approached especially on the street. I NEVER get approached by thugs or B-boys, rarely black men. The only men that show any type of interest are ones that I wouldn’t expect. I worked at a doctor’s office and one of the doctors showed interest. Or guys that I went to school with later to find they were interested (well why didn’t you tell me back then lol). Or some executives.But I’m definetly not like Davida who gets approached like a million times a day. Oh well!
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“I NEVER get approached by thugs or B-boys, rarely black men.”
I meant to say and rarely black men. I just wanted to make that clear that I wasn’t calling black men thugs or b-boys.
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“The fact is that the majority of Americans tend to marry within their racial groups.”
Yeah but when white people do it, it’s racist.
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No where have I ever said that white people marrying white people is racist. I have never heard any black person say something like that.
And in the case of Lynette stating her preference for black men it was only the white commenters who brought up that it might be racist or tried to make it into something racist.
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Most men will not approach Halle Berry or Tyra Banks for the simple reason that they think they have no chance with them. Their beauty has priced them out of the market. Halle, Tyra and Naomi have not had good luck with men and I think that is part of it.
I hate to say it, but education and intelligence also help to price a woman out of the market. Few men are willing to go with a woman who seems to have more intelligence and education than they do. There are about a half million black women in America who have educated themselves out of the marriage market, sad to say. Think Condi Rice.
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Lynette Says:
“I do think that mainstream America and the media have come a long way in accepting Black beauty. However, usually their beauty standards bend more toward Black females with Eurocentric features, such as lighter skin and straighter hair. Afrocentric beauty is still not widely accepted among the mainstream media. For instance, the only Black leading lady who has won an Oscar is Halle Berry. I would not say that Ms. Berry’s physical features represent the majority of Black women.”
Lynette, I am glad you made a distinction between mainstream America and the ‘mainstream media’ because much of the time the mainstream media does not reflect the opinions of the mainstream. I do think Halle Berry is beautiful, but so are Jennifer Hudson and Mary J. Blige, both of whom would be closer to the ‘Afrocentric beauty’ standard.
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“No where have I ever said that white people marrying white people is racist.”
part I:
“They all avoid the simplest reason of all, the one that you hardly ever hear:
White men are racist”
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Is anyone else bored and as sick to the back teeth of this topic as i am???
I mean really folks? I am a black woman and maybe i will never find a white man, so? Maybe i will never find a black man? so? I may never find an asian man, so?
yes there is a disparity in the issue of interracial dating and marriage, that is easy to explain, in the mean time i find this whole thread slightly demeaning, it’s all “woe for black women who will never find a white(or black or asian) man, boo-hoo, is because they are seen as ugly, or it because they are percieved as loud and unfeminime, is it because they are percieved as have low moral standards, or that they are perecieved as being entirely composed of people who go on maury!!!”
It cheeses me off, i love abagond and most of the commentators and yes the debate needs to be talked over but i feel that the conversation here isn’t one that is constructive, intelligent or purposeful.
so we have discussed it, what is the rationale, what have we drawn from this converstion, what should we do? for example!
I am single and maybe i sound “embittered” or maybe “snappy” but some of the commentators are talking in circles and well it’s irritating to me.
peace. X
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“But I’m definitely not like Davida who gets approached like a million times a day.”
Well, me neither. I get stared at a lot but not very many direct approaches. I’m just a tad bit too pretty, I think. Oh, well. I’m married now, so I don’t really care anymore.
The simple truth is that there are a lot of single black women because there are a lot of black men missing (dead, in jail, unemployed, etc.). The situation would be the same for Asian or white women if they were also missing such a large portion of their male population.
The numbers speak for themselves: date out sometimes. Open up the eligible pool of bachelors and you’re more likely to find a match.
Yes, there are men of other races who would be interested. Not every single one, but not every single black man is interested in every single black woman either, so the point is rather moot. This wouldn’t change the fact that there aren’t enough eligible men to go around but at least it would make it less of a black-woman-specific problem.
And remember, there is that little thing called FALLING IN LOVE which is rather colorblind. If you’d asked my husband if he was interested in black women he would have said no but then he met me, fell in love with me (and made puppy-eyes at me for months before getting up the nerve to call me up for a date), and married me. He wasn’t interested in “black women” he was just interested in this particular one. Same thing with my cousin’s husband; dated a string of blonds and then fell HARD for my cousin and chased her until she gave in. And, MAN, she didn’t make it easy for him.
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I dont get approached a million times a day – maybe 2 – 3 times a day. And I think it has more to do with the smile on my face and looking people in the eye. I seriously am not all that….Also – the irony is I am happily married as well. It seems my body language is putting out a different vibe than what I intend…but for the life of me cant figure out how to turn it off.
Which gets back to my question – is body language sending conflicting signals because of cultural differences? You think that might be part of the cause between the lack of IR couples?
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abagond said,
Most men will not approach Halle Berry or Tyra Banks for the simple reason that they think they have no chance with them. Their beauty has priced them out of the market. Halle, Tyra and Naomi have not had good luck with men and I think that is part of it.
I hate to say it, but education and intelligence also help to price a woman out of the market. Few men are willing to go with a woman who seems to have more intelligence and education than they do. There are about a half million black women in America who have educated themselves out of the marriage market, sad to say. Think Condi Rice.
abagond,
I find it interesting that many NON-BW who are gorgeous, intelligent, and successful are NOT considered to have “priced themselves out of the market” due to these (usually POSITIVE)traits. Outside of ANTI-BW COWARDICE and/or ANTI-BW RACISM, it makes NO SENSE that beauty, intelligence, or success would actually PREVENT a BW from finding men who would want to SERIOUSLY DATE and/or MARRY her.
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“Well, me neither. I get stared at a lot but not very many direct approaches. I’m just a tad bit too pretty, I think.”
It’s good to know that I’m not the only one experiencing this. Guys will look, but rarely approach me. If they do, they send someone else “wingman” over to say something. I just wish men would “man up” and go after what they want.
Abagond, “pricing out of the market” is an interesting perspective. I’d never thought of it that way. I just thought that other women were better than me or had more appeal because of how I was conditioned to think that I’m not appealing by girls who bullied me in school for being thin.
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i cant imagine why a man wouldnt want a smart beautiful women. Unless he is a dumb ass and cant handle a women smarter than him. And who wants that sort of man anyway.
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It’s a catch 22 for bw it seems. First they don’t want us when they think we are all ghetto and loud uneducated hood rats, etc and now we are considered pricing ourselves out of the market for being beautiful, intelligent and educated, well groomed… seems bw cannot win for losing. 😦
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“You think that [race differences in body language] might be part of the cause between the lack of IR couples?”
Oh, definitely. Although it’s an intercultural and not interracial issue.
An American woman in Germany could walk around breaking hearts left and right and have absolutely no idea of it. With my husband, three of my German female relatives had to say, “Hey, I think he likes you!” before I even NOTICED. And white guys seem to be like that in general. Very subtle. Sometimes too subtle.
We black women are used to men coming on strong “Hey beautiful! You going to give me your number?” whereas a white guy (Asian guys are even worse) will spend a whole evening at a party talking to you without ever getting around to “hooking up”. I’ve learned to just go ahead and make the first move. If he’s not interested, at least it keeps me from wasting my time. Up till now, they’ve all been interested. I was surprised every time.
My husband explains it this way: German men show their interest through their presence. As in: I’m here, I’m breathing, I’m talking to you, obviously I want you. (roll eyes here) There’s even a very funny song about a beautiful French girl moving to Germany and staying single because she doesn’t understand the local men. She figures that since they’re not whistling at her or approaching her in public, they’re not interested.
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Wow. You could have just knocked me over with a feather. We just got our new Senseo coffee machine and the big label on it is a BW/WM couple cuddling and enjoying a cup of coffee.
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Wow sedmelier. That’s a real eye opener when you said that. I mean I know there are cultural differences, but when there are there’s really no way to detect them unless some sort of an offense is made.
But now that you’ve said that, I think there may be a WM that likes me… by the looks of it. He may like me a great deal. 😀 That’s awesome because I’ve been crushing on him for weeks.
The only problem is the next step. How would the French (American) girl tell the German (South African) boy that she likes him back? If there’s such a cultural difference in how people show their interest, I’m sure the courting practices can be just as confusing.
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So are the mating rituals or body language or whatever so different between blacks and whites in America that that is what accounts for “why so few white men marry black women”?
From the comments it seems like black women expect men to be forward and upfront about their interest while white men wait for the woman to show interest first. So they both wait… and never get together.
(If true, this is something that would never be caught by that Columbia speed dating study about interracial dating.)
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As a white women – I thought white men were not interested in me because they didnt approach. Black or Latin men did. Perhaps their are tons of people out there – waiting for the other person to approach – and therefore no one ever does.
Perhaps this is why internet dating sites have taken off so much. I am attending a bacherlorette party saturday for a friend we never thought would get married. She found the perfect guy for her on match.com – all other men she tend to scare off on the first date.
With a website – you know the other person is looking so it takes the guess work out of it?
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Trust me, white men have no problem approaching a woman. That’s who approach me the most, along with Latin men. Well, I should say professional white men. It’s just black men who don’t.
If a man goes after a woman that he truely wants, it shows ambition. If he’s ambitious in the area, he is ambitious in other areas of his life. Maybe that’s why so many beautiful women are with well to do men. Those are the men who had the ambition and took the risk to make initial contact.
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Everyone’s experiences in dating will differ dramatically as each person is very different. This is America so race defintely plays a part. But only to an extent. As corny as this sounds, each person’s personality will inform who and what they attract.
I agree with A White Guy’s comment as well. Except I don’t see how MJB or Jennifer Hudson are so much more “African” (which is???) than Halle. Hell, if someone told me they were sisters, I’d believe them.
Aba’s idea about black women pricing themselves out of the market is an interesting one. They say that men tend to be intimadated by women are TOO beautiful or much smarter or wealthier than they are. But then again, there’s undoubtedbly many who would thrilled to find such a woman, right? A “moocher” would probably love to find a woman who makes way more money than he does? And an insecure type would love to a really gorgeous woman who he fault around as his trophy?
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I had an Asian friend in college that just hung-around me for 2 years without asking me out. A friend of mine told me he was crushing on me (I had no idea) so I asked him out to dinner and he almost peed his pants in shock. We were friends too long, though. Felt incestuous somehow. It’s a shame because he was really cute and was built like a tall Jackie Chan.
“They say that men tend to be intimadated by women are TOO beautiful or much smarter or wealthier than they are.”
My simple solution: date men that are smarter and wealthier than you. I’m very intelligent but my husband is better at CERTAIN things and has more earning potential than I do (right now). Men just want to be able to impress you with something. They don’t necessarily want you to be a brain-dead cheerleader for them. And once you’re married a while they usually don’t mind if you earn more money as it’s more for them. When we bought our house my husband didn’t sneer at my contribution to the down payment. It’s just an issue when you’re dating. And we manage our finances like my parents do: his paycheck goes into one account from which all of our recurring bills are paid, mine goes into our spending account from which our investments, travel, gifts, dinners out, etc. are paid. That way my money is seen as the expendable part and his is the “supporting the family part”. It also has the HUGE benefit that you learn to live off of one income. It made quitting my job for baby-time much simpler.
Okay, everyone can start throwing mud at me now for that anti-feminist confession…
“How would the French (American) girl tell the German (South African) boy that she likes him back?”
Heck, I don’t know. The song doesn’t tell you. LOL! Maybe just baby steps like touching his arm when you speak to him and looking down at the floor and then up at him through your lashes? Standing just a tad too close in the elevator? If he reacts by moving away, he’s not interested.
Or you could be really bold and ask him what he does in his spare time. Sound REALLY interested in whatever it is “You bowl? I LOOOVE bowling.” (and then cut your nails short quick). Maybe he’ll ask you to join him sometime.
I’ve learnt to like watching soccer, drink beer, and cook Scheinebraten with Knoedel. Mandatory with a German man. Lots of soccer. Did I mention that we watch soccer? Lots of it?
Ooooh… He’s SA? They have such a sexy accent.
With my husband I just gave my cousin’s husband (who was his best friend — happy coincidence) my phone number and insisted he pass it on. The frustrating thing was that my husband called me up with some corny excuse, talked for 15 minutes, and then was about to hang up when I said, flat-out, “Weren’t you calling to ask me out?” Then he did FINALLY. Geez, it was like pulling teeth.
“If a man goes after a woman that he truely wants, it shows ambition.”
It does show ambition. My husband wasn’t at all ambitious when we met but… he’s married to a black girl now and is moving up. Hee, hee. His income has doubled in 3 years due to my ministrations and encouragement.
I’m ambitious enough for both of us. We’re in the same industry, so I know the deal. Wives can have a dramatic effect on a man’s behaviour and income…
Ladies, it’s all about seeing potential.
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BTW, the bowling thing:
Men aren’t stupid. They know you don’t like to bowl (or watch soccer or drink beer with his buddies). The point is to show that you are INTERESTED IN HIM and want to get to know him and his friends/family better.
My husband hates the ballet but he takes me there at least once a year because he wants me to know that he’s INTERESTED IN ME and wants to spend time doing things that please me, even if there’s nothing in it for him.
Get it?
Besides, they’re cute when they start getting all excited about their hobbies.
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Damn, this is the best conversation I’ve seen on this topic EVER! Excuse the swearing, Abagond & forgive me if I leave out some of you great commenters. Erin, mynameis…, sedlmeier1, Lynette, AWhiteGuy, ceilidh71, anon, Blan2, Davida/dedabets, racerealist, any commenters I missed & of course, Abagond.
Thank you all for an interesting, compassionate & civil conversation.
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sedlmeier1: We are both slowly taking baby steps, though I suspect our baby steps are ant steps. We haven’t touched at all, not even to shake hands, but he has walked me back to campus, and he tells me alot about himself and what he does. He’s working on finishing his masters and getting his PhD, so I know all the times he spends around me is definitely worth something, especially since his work site is several miles away. And we flirt, in our own humorous, nerdy sort of pick-on-each-other way. But I don’t intend to push him. He is a busy fella’ and I don’t think he should have the burden of a new relationship to deal with right now. So I’m content to wait and flirt.
I know a lot of the things he likes, and he’s getting to learn what I like as well. I think we’re getting there, but we’ve got a long way to go. 😀
thanks for the advice though. I’ve already learned to play Ultimate Frisbee because of him. And I already like soccer, we ought to get along swimmingly.I guess it’s about noticing the things that are out of the ordinary about a guy. I had to compare his actions around my girl friends to his actions around me, and the logical conclusion is in my favor :D!
(Yes, he was raised in SA, but he’s been back long enough to have a lovely slight southern accent.)
temple: thanks 😀
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I’m originally from Texas so I have a bit of a drawl myself.
Sounds like he is INTERESTED. Good luck!
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racerealist said in comment #182 quoting me to show what he thinks is a contradiction:
“No where have I ever said that white people marrying white people is racist.”
part I:
“They all avoid the simplest reason of all, the one that you hardly ever hear:
White men are racist”
In this case I did not call white men racist for marrying white women. I have never said that nor would I. Why I called white men racist in that post was for not marrying black women because they do not want to have black children. That I called racist. There are different reasons for not marrying black women, not all of them are racist, but some are. That is one of them.
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To Abagond
Why I called white men racist in that post was for not marrying black women because they do not want to have black children.
To state the very obvious.. you don’t need to be married to reproduce… as is now the case for roughly 40% of the children born in the US. I think, generally, when a white guy isn’t interested in dating black women.. the notion of what his potential children would look like hardly enters the picture.
Given some of your other posts regarding racism, power, and a lack of understanding by whites towards blacks it would appear that you would dissuade black women from marrying white men. I am not saying that you do.. but quite a few of your posts and themes, if taken as counsel such as:
“As Gloria Naylor said, to tell lies is bad enough, but to believe your own lies is far worse. White America does both and can get away with it – for a time – because of its power. This blog, among other things, is an exercise in calling them on some of those lies”
and
“power in American society is more like a 95-5 thing favouring whites”
would suggest that such a union would be a bad idea given that marriage involves (or should involve) trust and understanding.
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Excellent point, one I made in the post:
“the ongoing racism in American society makes it hard to trust whites. True: marriage is an act of profound trust.”
Also this post is about marriage, not dating. When most men make the decision to marry children are an issue.
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I grew up in the Caribbean and I’m mixed (black, portuguese, native indian). I lived quite a few years among every ethnicity under the sun without being questioned about what I was, what I was mixed with etc. Nobody cared!! Maybe my upbringing was a bit idealistic, but I never considered others based on ethnicity at all. Jen was not, “the blonde girl” she was the girl with the wicked sense of humour. Here everyone is first perceived in terms of race.
Here is America, everyone seems obsessed with race, making generalizations and upholding stereotypes. Who cares who white guys marry? Like everyone else, they have preferences, and that is perfectly ok. So what if someone doesn’t like dark skin or light skin in a partner? Why is that racist?
I’d like to think that most people choose partners based on similarities, rather than race only. We generally seek out those who are like us. There just seems a profound lack of understanding among different ethnic groups in America.
Maybe my post is off tangent, but I’m just sick of the need to always identify what you are, where you stand on the colour spectrum and what your preferences are, in such black and white terms.
Oh and btw, I am married to a white guy.
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To Abagond:
Also this post is about marriage, not dating. When most men make the decision to marry children are an issue.
I meant to add a few extra thoughts to my previous post but I was pretty tired when I made it. My point about children and marriage (or lack thereof..) is if one is dating, children can certainly come into the equation. The US is approaching the 50% mark for children born out of wedlock. From personal experience as a white guy who has been around plenty of white guys who talk about relationships.. I have never heard another white guy say “I would date a black woman.. but never marry one..” I can believe there are guys out there who hold that position (and not just about black women..) but I don’t know them. Your assertion would possibly be correct if there was a higher ratio of wm/bf dating couples vs. wm/bf married couples than there were wm/wf dating vs. wm/wf married. I don’t think there is.
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To Junebugjoon:
Maybe my post is off tangent, but I’m just sick of the need to always identify what you are, where you stand on the colour spectrum and what your preferences are, in such black and white terms.
Personally, aside from it making you sick, I think that’s a healthy attitude. More power to you.
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Junebugjoon,
Right on! I ask myself that everytime I think about race. Why does it matter? But in America, it’s the structure for damn near every facet of life. I’d imagine it’s the same in the Caribbean, just less pronounced.
Having a shade preference could be perfectly innocent for some but usually, people who “prefer” a certain shade do so for social reasons. It’s not based on some inherent idea of beauty but rather, the individuals own concepts of “light” and “dark”, “black” or “white”.
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re: june
In America, we have laws like affirmative action and hate crimes as well as organizations like La Raza and the NAACP to make sure that we never, ever forget about race.
The race industry makes sure that minorities always feel oppressed for the same reason the weight loss industry makes sure we always feel fat – their livelihoods depend on it.
Just follow my link (www.amren.com) for plentiful examples of multimillion dollar lawsuits centered around racial issues. Most of the money goes to the lawyers, who make quite a handsome living off of instigating racial strife.
People like Al Sharpton have no interest in “curing” America’s racism – you don’t kill the goose that lays the golden eggs. There are plenty of people out there who suggest and promote solutions to the problems of minorities, but they tend to get shouted down by the “blame whitey” and “more gubmint money” types, who claim they have the instant-fix.
American Renaissance is an example of the burgeoning white segment of the race industry, and while I wish it wasn’t necessary sometimes you have to fight fire with fire.
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So, racism isn’t a big deal, anymore, Racerealist? Isn’t that easy for a white man to say?
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I never said that racism doesn’t exist, just that the race industry has no interest in making it go away.
The question was why do Americans focus so much on race? The answer was that there are many elements in society who benefit from making us think that way.
As for your comment about my race, I think being a white person does give me a better perspective on how white people think than you and abagond, who constantly make assumptions and conjecture about how white people think with no basis in reality.
I assume because you didn’t address anything in my comment, that you completely agree with what I said? Or are you just avoiding a frank discussion by making race-based personal attacks?
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All I have to say is that as a black woman, I’ve never really been attracted to black men. This doesn’t mean that I don’t find some black men attractive- I think Will Smith, Blair Underwood & Morris Chestnut are hot. I’ve always dated interacially, and will continue to do so. Some of my black female friends think I’m weird or a sellout, but I come from I diverse family where race has never been an issue.
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Elle, there is nothing wrong with your preference. You have to follow your heart. But the men you mentioned are pretty cute.
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And Blair Underwood is a fantastic, clasically-trained actor. One of the few black actors whose films I will actively seek out. Unfortunate that he was cast as a wife-beater in G and Madea though.
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Yeah, I met Blair Underwood while I was working for the Obama campaign and more than being attractive and a great actor – he was exremely nice and kind to me. Very classy guy!
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Aba,
Do you think that perhaps, you, me and many of the other posters don’t think realistically when we talk about white racism like RaceRealist says? I’m seriously asking, no sarcasm.
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mynameisnyname Says:
“I agree with A White Guy’s comment as well. Except I don’t see how MJB or Jennifer Hudson are so much more “African” (which is???) than Halle. Hell, if someone told me they were sisters, I’d believe them.”
Myname, you are not the first person I heard say something like that about Halle Berry.
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racerealist Says:
“The race industry makes sure that minorities always feel oppressed for the same reason the weight loss industry makes sure we always feel fat – their livelihoods depend on it.
Just follow my link (www.amren.com) for plentiful examples of multimillion dollar lawsuits centered around racial issues. Most of the money goes to the lawyers, who make quite a handsome living off of instigating racial strife.
People like Al Sharpton have no interest in “curing” America’s racism – you don’t kill the goose that lays the golden eggs. There are plenty of people out there who suggest and promote solutions to the problems of minorities, but they tend to get shouted down by the “blame whitey” and “more gubmint money” types, who claim they have the instant-fix.
American Renaissance is an example of the burgeoning white segment of the race industry, and while I wish it wasn’t necessary sometimes you have to fight fire with fire.”
Racerealist, I agree totally about the race industry, which includes unscrupulous lawyers and others who instigate and make a rich living off of strife. Al Sharpton never misses an opportunity to take advantage of an incident. However, I am not a fan of American Renaissance, although I am just as opposed to the double standards that they report on.
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Racerealist said:
As for your comment about my race, I think being a white person does give me a better perspective on how white people think than you and abagond, who constantly make assumptions and conjecture about how white people think with no basis in reality.
Then mynameismyname said:
Aba,
Do you think that perhaps, you, me and many of the other posters don’t think realistically when we talk about white racism like RaceRealist says? I’m seriously asking, no sarcasm.
I say:
Whites say they know their own mind but part of what most of them “know” is that they are not racist. Are they right?
There is some truth in what racerealist is saying – there is some guesswork on our part. But while we may have an incomplete picture of what is going on, we know about their racism better than they do because it affects us, not them. They do not have to understand it, we do. In fact, they have reasons to be blind to their own racism:
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^I agree, Aba.
But, really, racism DOES affect whites. In fact, it may affect whites the most. It’s just that they benefit from the arrrangement, hence why they go into denial or fits of anger when someone acknowledges the unfairness.
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As a white women I would say that racerealism is only partly right. You cant know what it is like to live life looking through a white persons eyes. Racism is real – and it affects you every day in a negative way…which is why it is so high on your radar.
I see racism as just one of many problems in this world…and I dont elevate it about symptom status. Not because I dont think its real…it is…just I get bothered by your narrow focus at times. Hate, evil, greed and self centeredness are the sickness that results in racism…but it shows it self in other forms. To assume a white person doesnt suffer equally with you – some other form of this same sickness is unfair. Its similar to your post on whtie womens eyes – one women said a white women hasnt suffered like black women so their eyes dont appear as deep. Which is a ridiculous statement…by virtue of my skin I dont deal with problems in life? If you took your viewpoint as the extent of the worlds problems – you would think white people walk through life on rose petals and live an easy charmed life.
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Suffering is a part of being human in this world. And there are plenty of white women who have suffered more than plenty of black women. But in general black women suffer more.
I think there are enough government numbers on things like health, income, divorce, unemployment and crime to show that that is most likely the case. And even if their material lives were completely equal, there is still the added layer of racism on top of everything else.
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I agree that whites are affected by racism, even in bad ways. How can they not be? It makes America poorer and more dangerous than it has to be. It twists their view of the world. It makes them more fearful. It makes them morally blind.
But the thing is this: they do not have to think about racism if they do not want to.
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or until it affects someone they love.
I admit I didnt think about it until my sister married a BM – and even then I didnt think about it much except to think peeople should get over the whole OMG its an IR couple reaction. Not until my niece and nephew were born did I really start thinking about racism.
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That is just my point.
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for christsake, why would a black, asian, or even latino woman ever marry a white male?? i realzied what vile creatures they were when my best friend (asian obviously) was dating a white guy and he dumps her and tells her, i don’t really even like asian girls. and i was just dating you to tell all my friends i f—-cked an asian girl…smarten up. if you want to interracialy date: fine. but why not marry latino? asian? black…another ethnic guy.
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To Hei:
i realzied what vile creatures they were when my best friend (asian obviously) was dating a white guy and he dumps her and tells her, i don’t really even like asian girls. and i was just dating you to tell all my friends i f—-cked an asian girl…smarten up.
And today’s word to describe this post is syllogism.
So Hei,
Although I do agree the guy in your example is a supreme d*ck.. you reasoning does not support the premise that all white men behave this way.
if a woman told you that she had been sexually assaulted by a black man would you assume that all black men behave the same way..? That’s the same logic you are applying to white men.
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Well, that wasn’t the first and ONLY time (duh)…it was the *final* straw. i wouldn’t expect you to understand. how could you? oh, of course!!! not surprised you would give the well-it’s-not-only-white-guys-who-act –this-way excuse…the “what if a [insert race of male] guy had done this…would you still feel that way.” divert the question elsewhere to prove your “point/innocence” w/e point is, no, of course ONE person wouldn’t lead me to believe that…i can’t even count the number of times a white male has said something derogatory or completely ignorant to me/someone i know/or even something i just witnessed…not to mention, the comments women read online written by white males should be enough to tell them to steer clear. skim through craigslist rants, myspace message boards, yahoo answers, if you don’t believe me…so yeah, those things do sort of reinforce my beliefs….and just further proves my point. when i meet someone who is TRULY different, than i’ll believe they aren’t all the same…until then…? Being neither “ethnic” nor a woman, you really wouldn’t understand, would you? i’m young, but i’ve seen more than enough to know where to steer clear. you can’t even image how it feels to be on the other end, so stop putting your two cents in. and i stand by what i said, i think it’s stupid for anyone of “color” to date a white male. maybe especially when you’re younger.(maybe especially asians and blacks) end of discussions. that’s was geared to women anyhow. not you.
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ps-i don’t hate white men, not at all. and reading back, it definitely reads that way….it’s more like i dislike certain traits?…i don’t know, it’s sort of hard to put in words. maybe it’s more like, i avoid them because i assume certain things about them?? “vile creatures” was a little harsh, but i really just don’t think ethnic women should date them. and what’s that saying “one bad apple…” and when it’s more than “one bad apple”…how is a WOMAN supposed to feel? i just don’t think it’s smart…maybe later on, i’ll feel differently, but not now…and i’m sorry if i offended you, because looking back-this was a pretty bitchy post.
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There are 100 million white men in this country and if you shut them all out you’re only hurting yourself. If you judge every race by the worst person someone of that race has ever done to you (or someone you know?) you won’t have any friends.
If you judge a whole race by one person’s actions, you are the definitive racist. It’s a sign of stupidity, and like I said before it only hurts yourself.
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By the way I’ve noticed a trend here, the young and inexperienced women are much more likely to generalize than the older and more experienced. You need to realize that the world is way, WAY bigger than your random, trivial experience.
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To Hei
…and i’m sorry if i offended you, because looking back-this was a pretty bitchy post.
I am not easily offended.. Some topics invariably have emotional push buttons.
that’s was geared to women anyhow. not you.
If I said something derogatory about black women and said the message was only for men would you remain silent? Hopefully not.
i’m young
I’m not.. unfortunately.
I’ll note with some irony that your post along with a number of posts by other women lends support to some of my earlier discussion on the subject. I know there are black women interested in dating white men but I think the percentage is quite a bit smaller than the percentage for Asian women interested in dating white men, hence one of the reason, in my opinion, for the differences in out marriage rates by white men to Asian women as opposed to black women.
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Uncle Milton and racerealist:
Notice any parallels between Robert Lindsay and Hei? With Hei you could tell she was writing off white maledom way too quickly. But that is just Robert Lindsay was doing to black femaledom earlier in this thread.
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Notice any parallels between Robert Lindsay and Hei?
Yes I was going to bring it up in the post but opted not to. In my opinion Hei backed off her statement somewhat or at least realized it was a bit over the top. She’s fairly young and dealing with (white) guys that apparently are fairly different from her culture. If she’s Asian then I think I know some of the types of guys she’s dealing with. I suspect if she were white she would see them coming and shut them down.
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Hei:
I’m young too, and ethnic, and a woman. I have been hurt by white guys in the past, and I can tell you for a fact that any other guy from any other race is just as capable of being a complete asshole. But, that doesn’t mean you should steer clear of that race. It means you should steer clear of men like those. I’ve learned some common traits that differentiate the assholes from the princes. They are kind of hard to explain, so I won’t try, it’s more of something you need to figure out for yourself.
You and your friend shouldn’t let past hurts get in y’alls way. Who knows, the love of y’alls lives may be a white guy, but if you write them off as bastards from the get-go, then there’s really no chance of finding that out.
I say that your friend should probably take her time when she’s thinking about dating someone, and get to know them as a person even before they date. Usually the guy’s less savory traits will come out as he gets sick of trying to impress you. Tell her to listen to him and his friends about how he talks about women. As for you, I think if you’d drag those SOB’s through the ringer before you even let them come close to dating her, it may save a lot of time and heartache.
Case-in-point: I am on the verge of dating a wonderful guy. He’s as white as they come. Blonde, blue eyed, pale as a sheet. He is also a perfect gentleman. I’ve known him for a little over three or four months, and we are now good friends. He doesn’t say derogatory things about women, not even jokingly. He doesn’t keep a ‘f— list’ of women he’s done it with (I don’t know if he’s ever done it). And he treats me like a princess. Is there any way you could say that I shouldn’t take the chance of dating him if the opportunity presented itself?
tl;dr- go into a relationship with your head first. The heart comes later.
All white guys aren’t all bad. Find a guy who treats you like a princess, and it won’t matter what his skin color is.
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Hei is probably a Black woman who’s really racist. That’s my 2 cents.
La Reyna
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Erin said: “I have been hurt by white guys in the past, and I can tell you for a fact that any other guy from any other race is just as capable of being a complete asshole.”
Amen to that. I’ve met plenty of jerks of all colors and really nice guys come in a diverse set as well. Same for women, by the way.
Erin, he sounds like my husband. It’s often the quiet, intelligent, sane, NORMAL ones that women overlook. Strangely, even if they’re really good looking. Too many women are attracted to macho womanizers and then are surprised when they turn into macho womanizers.
I think some women watch/read too many stupid romances in which life is always chaotic and exciting and they seek that in their relationships. But, I can tell you from experience, the best marriages are between people who are friends and enjoy spending time together, who discuss their future and make plans together.
I don’t think Hei is a racist. She back-tracked too quickly for that. Sounds more like she’s been burned a few times.
Hei:
My top 10 signs you should run from him:
1) Erin’s: he brags about past sexual conquests or women he’d like to have sex with
2) Mine: he won’t introduce you to people who are important to him
3) He has trouble making time for you. He seems very busy all of the time (work, hobbies, socializing, whatever)
4) He doesn’t offer to pay for dates. Even if YOU want to pay, he should at least offer. He’s broke all of the time.
5) He has a weird relationship with his mother (overly attached or hates her guts). Compares you negatively to his mother.
6) Arguments over specific topics degrade into personal attacks or physical violence. Or he gives you the silent treatment or is otherwise passive-aggressive.
7) He’s chronically late or he doesn’t call to warn you that he’s going to be late
8 ) He doesn’t listen attentively when you speak directly to him. He’s constantly glued to electronic media (computers, TVs, Wifi’s, etc).
9) He’s secretive while texting or calling on the phone. If his phone rings, he snatches it up and runs to the other room to speak.
10) He uses pornography, drinks alcohol to excess, uses drugs, or gambles regularly.
In other words: if it looks like a jerk, and it sounds like a jerk: it’s a jerk. If he’s a nice guy and he likes you, he’ll treat you accordingly. That is, if you are a nice girl. If you’re a jerk then you don’t deserve any better, of course.
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To sedlmeier1:
Re:
It’s often the quiet, intelligent, sane, NORMAL ones that women overlook. Strangely, even if they’re really good looking. Too many women are attracted to macho womanizers and then are surprised when they turn into macho womanizers.
And your top ten signs are excellent points.
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I agree about the ten signs, but I would add that some are way worse than others.
VERY BAD: Not showing you to the important people in his life; turning a simple argument into a personal attack.
ANNOYING BUT HARMLESS: Showing up late; trying to watch television or surf the Internet while talking to you. Bad manners, certainly, but it is not a sign of something worse.
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racrealist (#210):
American Renaissance is an example of the burgeoning white segment of the race industry, and while I wish it wasn’t necessary sometimes you have to fight fire with fire.
AmRen’s ideology may mirror, to a degree, those of NCLR and NAACP (or as I like to call them, NAAAA), but I don’t think it can be considered a part of the race industry. What makes the race industry an industry is the fact that they have full support of the government, the law and legal profession, most of the opinion-makers in the media and academia, and the educational complex. AmRen, by contrast, is truly a marginal phenomenon, still a fringe organization 19 years after its first conference.
Not that their obscurity isn’t largely their own fault or is entirely undeserved, but that is a separate discussion.
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TO THE WHITE AND CONFUSED MEN
‘Being neither “ethnic” nor a woman, you really wouldn’t understand, would you?’ ~Hei
Hello all…
I am an educated, Afro rocking, chocolate skinned Sista who happens to be engaged to a White man, … I know that my description alone would scare some insecure White folk (especially the afro and educated part), but I don’t care, and I am proud of who I am, even though there are so many ‘Lost Ones’ in this country…
I occasionally encounter blatant discrimination from men and White folk in general…and during those times, I feel that deep down my fiancé doesn’t understand where I am coming from… because he is a man AND he is White…
It’s called intersectionality AND positionality… in other words our gender and race place us at different points in the social landscape and often people treat us differently…which means that we have different LIVED experiences…
However, the fact that my fiancé can empathize and ‘go through the trials’ with me, reflects his love and respect for me…
THAT BEING SAID…I find it hard for ANYONE (ex. the several White men on this forum) to speak on topics such as race UNLESS YOU SHARE THE SAME POSITIONALITY AS THE PERSON YOU ARE TRYING TO COMMENT ON… or unless you can empathize with them…
From what I’ve read, you don’t know ANY of us intimately (chuckle) or vaguely… you hold Sapphire, Welfare Queen, Ghetto, Angry Black Woman stereotypes about us (when in reality Black Woman are so diverse, that it’s actually quite hard to group us – I should know, I’m a Black Female social scientist)
You think that your maleness AND whiteness can grant you license to spew you’re *knowledge*…
Oh please… the best thing you can do is work on yourselves, make sure that you deal with all of your *issues* before you make generalizations about an entire group that you don’t empathize with and you have nothing in common with…
you’re not trying to understand, you’re trying to TEACH us what it means to be a BLACK WOMAN, and let me tell you something White and Confused MEN, unless you are a Black Woman, you can’t teach me ANYTHING AND YOUR COMMENTARY ISN’T EVEN VALID…
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Babybrown,
I agree, but I would take it a step further:
To tell you the truth, even a lot of black women don’t understand what life is like for other black women. And what about all of us “brown” women? Our life is different again. And then you have to consider social class. I have a very dark-skinned, college-educated, married-to-a-rich white man cousin who’s life is a cake-walk compared to mine. And mine is easy-street compared to what my grandmother went through, or even what my white mother went through.
I still find it interesting to read what the white guys think about us. My own husband is so empathetic with me that I don’t think he could be very objective.
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abagond: “ANNOYING BUT HARMLESS: Showing up late; trying to watch television or surf the Internet while talking to you. Bad manners, certainly, but it is not a sign of something worse.”
Ah, but it’s the broken-windows concept, isn’t it? Sometimes it’s the small things that let you see someone’s true character. The top ten list is based on my own experiences (yeah, I’ve dated some REAL jerks — we’re all young and dumb once) and those of my friends.
The showing up late was actually because he was dating ANOTHER WOMAN at the same time and had trouble extricating himself from her (also the reason why he was very secretive with his cell-phone, seemed to be very “busy”, and didn’t want me to meet his family — they only knew about the other girl). That man barked! What a dog. But he was a sweet-talker and could sell snow to the Eskimos. And lie through his teeth.
And a friend of mine’s husband started showing up late on visits (he worked elsewhere) and it turned out that he was arriving on time but seeing HIS GIRLFRIEND FIRST. Oh, yeah. Another barker…
And the electronic media thing was from her husband as well. Met the girlfriend online and was constantly on the computer chatting at her. And checking out porn. He would rather look at porn than have sex. Woof, woof, woof.
That kind of flaw seems small at first (when they’re on their best behaviour) but it gets rapidly worse…
Here’s another good list:
http://webcenters.netscape.compuserve.com/love/package.jsp?name=fte/badboyfriend/badboyfriend
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And the electronic media thing is because it’s a list of things you can tell right from the beginning. At first, it’s just that he gets really into watching TV, or playing World of Warcraft. Then it’s that he’d rather do that than talk to you. Then it’s that he stays up all night playing computer games and watching porn. It’s a slippery slope.
Normally when someone falls in love they become a bit obsessed with the other person and can’t get enough of them. This can go on for months. If they skip that phase: run!
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babybrown:
I don’t see a lot of white men here trying to say what all black women think, but I do see a lot of non-white-males trying to tell everyone what white men think. Your evidently hostile attitude toward white people (especially men) makes me pity your obviously white-guilt-ridden submissive fiance. The fact that you feel he must ‘go through trials’ to be able to understand you just shows your lack of respect for him as an individual human being. If you think that I can’t teach you anything, but you can apparently teach me plenty, then you are not worth an instant of my time. Your attitude makes you extremely undesirable to all but the most pathetic masochists among white men.
sedlmeier1:
Lists are like stereotypes, they can save you some time in aggregate, but they are likely to filter out some worthy candidates and admit some unworthy ones. Much better I think is a general strategy of being open but cautious, and being objective and realistic about your dating prospects. The feminist ideology of jumping into bed with anyone who can keep you interested for a night just leads to emotional catastrophes and damaging consequences. I think that most women can objectively tell the good men from the bad after a few dates, but too many become emotionally invested before they are capable of making an honest assessment. As much as liberal American society tries to deny it, sexual intimacy is emotionally bonding for women while for men it is frequently an end to itself. After all, why buy the cow if you get the mil for free?
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racerealist, LOL… silly man, I think that you see any intelligent Black woman as being a threat… and that’s what makes you WEAK, CONFUSED AND SAD… I laugh at your attempt to understand what goes on in my life or household with my man, who is obviously more man, more understanding, intelligent and amazing then your small mind (and probably matching small member) will ever be… little man you aren’t worth any other response from my Queendom…
sedlmeier1, thank you Queen for understanding my point and perspective about positionality… some of these simple minded folk, won’t ever get it, and there lies the problem… thanks sis 😉
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Thanks, babybrown, for proving beyond any doubt that you’re a bigot. By refusing to respond to my points (which were no more than observations based on what you posted) you show that you’re closed-minded and happy to be so.
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Babybrown did make an excellent point in comment #242: black women and white men tend to talk past each other because their experience of American society is so different.
The same is true for black men and white women, but the distance is not so vast. It is far more bridgeable.
White men live in a world where most of the messages are made by (or at least paid for by) other white men, so they think they are right. So much so that they are often condescending to those who do not agree with the words that fall from their lips. I have seen plenty of that here.
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racerealist said:
Thanks, babybrown, for proving beyond any doubt that you’re a bigot. By refusing to respond to my points (which were no more than observations based on what you posted) you show that you’re closed-minded and happy to be so.
Get real. You tried to derail her and it worked:
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sedlmeier1: I stand corrected about men who surf the net while their wives and girlfriends try to talk to them. It does not prove anything, but it is a red flag that should be checked out.
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Mynameismyname, Davida and Erin:
I sent the three of you Lynette’s dissertation about four days ago. If you did not get it or if you have trouble opening it, please send me an email and I will resend it. I used whatever email address it is you give my blog when you write a comment.
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I got the email. I meant to thank you earlier! So, I’ll think you now: THANKS! LOL. Happy Easter Sunday.
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Abagond, are you referring to Lynette’s dissertation on African-American body image? I think I would like to read it too.
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abagond- I’ve got the file, I think I opened it in a hurry and didn’t reply. Sorry about that. I haven’t quite started reading though, it’s almost finals, I’m buckling down.
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I just sent it.
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Thanks Abagond, I received it!
Lynette:
Judging by the first few pages I read so far, I expect to really enjoy reading your paper. I am very interested in this topic and I am delighted that you put this research and analysis into it. If I have any questions or comments, would you prefer I put them in this blog or send to you directly?
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Abagond, could you start a separate thread on Lynette’s dissertation? I think it is worthy of a dedicated discussion. Also, I would prefer not to mix the subject of her paper with the topic of this thread. Thanks.
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That is a good idea. Best would be if Lynette did a guest blog on it (500 words long!) Or, if she does not mind, I can write my own 500-word summary of her dissertation. Once posted then we can discuss. Issues of black female body image run though many of the comments made on this blog, so it is well worth talking about.
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I was also wondering if Lynette would be willing to write a summarized version of her dissertation. Yes, the body image theme does get touched upon in this thread and other threads. But I think it would be ideal to have a dedicated thread, because it really is a separate issue from this particular thread’s topic.
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Right, I agree: the summary, whether she writes it or I do, will become a blog post of its own. It would not appear here as a comment where it would get lost or create confusion. It would be its own post with its own comments.
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Very interesting discussion. I have always wondered why white men are reluctant to date black women not just in America but in the UK as well. The largest number of interracial relationships in the UK occur between BM/WW and this leaves many Black women without partners. Also white men in the UK are not very forthcoming in dating/marrying BW. Off the topic, I’m very interested in reading Lynette’s dissertation in full, I strongly feel this could relate to Black women in the UK.
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Abagond,
Could you please send me a copy of Lynette’s dissertation?
Blackgirl UK
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If it is all right with Lynette. She has not given me blanket permission to send it to just anyone who asks.
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Lynette:
It would be better if you wrote the summary since it is more likely to express your ideas just right, but I am willing to do it if you want.
If I did it, I would send you the draft and you would tell me if it needs any changing.
The summary has to be 500 words, give or take 20 words. If you send more than that, then I will edit it down to that size. That is the format of my blog.
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I will want to put a picture with it. If you have one in mind, send that too.
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If you give it to me within the next two hours, I will post it today. Otherwise I will post it within 24 hours after you send it.
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Cool. I look forward to it.
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BlackgirlUK Says:
“I have always wondered why white men are reluctant to date black women not just in America but in the UK as well. The largest number of interracial relationships in the UK occur between BM/WW and this leaves many Black women without partners. Also white men in the UK are not very forthcoming in dating/marrying BW.”
BlackgirlUK, check out this site:
ebonywomenandivorymen.com
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Interesting link…
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That thesis sounds very interesting. I’d love to read it as well. Looking forward to the post.
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wow wat an interesting thread i have to say as a black women i dont find white men attractive either they lack something the manliness. Why are people bothered so what black women white men dont find you attractive its not the end of the world there is other races out there and to be frank whats so special about them? we all knw its not the size of their you know what so leave them be!
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Bg2009, it doesn’t phase me who you are attracted to at all. Your preference is entirely your own and I respect it. If you just left at that, I would be very happy.
But I could do without denigrating comments like “they lack something the manliness” and “we all know its not the size of their you know what.”
You know full well those were gratuitously insulting comments and I know you would not appreciate such comments directed at you. Have a nice day.
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To expand on my previous comment, Lynette is an African American woman who said white men were not an option for her. However, in contrast to Bg2009, she did not make any disparaging remarks. Not only that, I have enjoyed her contributions to this blog.
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I agree with you, AWG, now you see how the black posters on this board felt when ignorant white trolls like “Robert Lindsay”, “Racerealist” and others disparged black women as being ugly, unfeminine, and stupid when explaining why he consider black females as romantic partners.
You can have a preference without discriminating or disparging something else.
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“we all know its not the size of their you know what.”
Where do they get this stuff?
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Mynameisnyname, I don’t like bigoted statements, regardless of what ethnicity it is directed toward. I want everyone held to the same standard.
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Once again, please point out where I said any of those things. Or do you just enjoy slandering people for no reason?
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You essentially said those things. I didn’t quote you verbatim, but that was the gist of your attack.
Yes, AGW, bigotry is ugly no matter who it’s directed is.
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Point out where I “essentially” said those things.
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There you go again with your “facts”, and “logic”, and “standards of evidence”, oppressor.
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mynameismyname:
Racerealist at times was trollish, sometimes talked like a white racist and even called us names, but as far as I can remember he never put down black women. In fact, he even questioned some of what Robert Lindsay was saying in that regard. You might be mixing him up with Mike.
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Still waiting for an apology.
Oh and thanks for piling on with the baseless name-calling, abagond.
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Racerealist, I don’t know what you said that could be rationally interpreted as racist. One poster accused me of believing in white supremacy without presenting any evidence. Beats me.
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Yeah, I may be mistaking him with “Mike” but still he comes off just as equally racist as “Mike”, “Robert Lindsay”, “Noserviam” and the crew.
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Gee, that’s not much of an apology considering you put words in my mouth, then repeated the assertion without checking the easily available facts.
I know why you guys do this – you don’t like my pseudonym or the website it links to. Those two things create a preconceived notion about what I must believe, so before I posted anything you guys got the idea that I had “said” all the things you ascribe to me.
All I’ve done is
1. point out the hypocrisy and racism of people who make generalizations about whites or denigrate white men and women (since abagond has no interest in doing it)
2. point out that there may be reasons for the black/white marriage gap other than white male racism, such as (shocker) that black women might not be terribly interested in marrying white men
I know it’s difficult to get through a whole paragraph without having your eyes glaze over and typing “RACIST!!!” in the comment box, so I’ll understand if you want to keep labeling me as such.
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I don’t see anything wrong with your points. I have frequently commented about the hypocrisy of those who make generalizations and outright hateful statements toward white people. I would be just as offended if such statements are made toward non-white people. I seek consistency and holding everyone to the same standard. I don’t know how anyone can find anything wrong with that.
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I think I assumed racerealist is racist because he comes off as very condescending. He has also been nasty to me, mynameismyname and Ann in part I and to babybrown here in part II. If he has been likewise nasty to (presumable) whites, I would like to have it pointed out to me.
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I came upon this conversation, and thought I should make a comment.
I am mostly Caucasian and I know my parents told me not to look on the outside of a woman/person and I have that I try to go by that philosophy. However I have always found myself always attracted to black or dark skinned women, I am not religious either; however I find myself having healthier relationships with people who are.
As to why Black women and White men are concerned… I have known many friends who are in Interracial Relationships. The main impeding factor for more Interracial relationships is they aren’t used to someone different, maybe fear on both sides.
It’s funny how people stereotype people in the military (However Didn’t read anyone on this post doing it) as racist or ignorant. Yet The per-capita number of interracial relationships in the military is much higher and that I think is a great thing.
🙂
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aba: I couldn’t think of any better place to put this.
But I recently just had a blip of thought about how much i’ve been conditioned to see the black woman in the movies as being the ‘crazy black bitch’. It’s a little frightening.
Have you seen trailers for the move Obsessed? It’s coming out pretty soon. I watched it and was angry because I thought that Beyonce was the one portraying the stalker, not the blond woman. I thought that since he was a rich man, then the white woman (she was well dressed while the picture of Beyonce was of her looking angry in a drab sweater.)Turns out, Mr. Man and Beyonce are happily married, while Blondy is the home-wrecking, stalking tramp. I had to do a lot of digging to get to that answer anyhow. The Synopsis on IMDB was pointedly vague.
What do you think? You could probably find the trailer on Youtube or something. Do you think this conditioning may have something to do with the problem stated above?
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“Yet The per-capita number of interracial relationships in the military is much higher and that I think is a great thing.”
Good comment.
The average IQ is higher and the murder rate is much lower, as well. A lot of people don’t know much about the military; only what they read in the newspapers.
http://www.heritage.org/research/nationalsecurity/wm1244.cfm
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Thanks abagond… Oh no, ‘racerealist’ didn’t derail me, he just isn’t worth my time and I had to shut him down, he is so corny and he truly bores me 🙂
I haven’t gone anywhere 😉
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oh good.
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Erin: I saw a trailer for “Obsessed” about a month ago. I am not sure if it is the one you saw, but in that one I thought that the white woman was the stalker and Beyonce was the wife. However from the poster, not looking at it too closely, it seemed like Beyonce was the obsessed one.
Here is the trailer that I saw:
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Black&German I remember that comment Kerry made. It made me think… really? And he was in the Military. I think he personally has a low opinion of Military members.
Erin; I saw two different versions of the trailer for Obsessed and I didn’t get that impression at all. Maybe you saw a different version altogether. I seen Ali Larter in Heroes and she has a split personality. I think she likes playing the bad girl.
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Hmm, perhaps. The trailer I saw had a lot of shots of the blonde, happy and smiling, her in the red dress, etc. Then it had Beyonce’s phone conversation where her friend goes “don’t be afraid to show ’em you crazy”. Cut to title shot.
Interesting.
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Mike reminds me of many white men I met while in University in a northern state, He assumes all black people act one certain way before even meeting them. Most whites assumed what I would act like before knowing me at all,which I found insulting, since they had no clue what my interests are and were there fore very wrong to assume what even my cultural background is. Many white seem to think low-income and minority (code for black) is one word.
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At one point, most blacks were poor. I think it’s just that white people haven’t noticed the change.
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I found this blog quite by accident but admit that the comments are intriguing. I was foolishly looking for something that would help me figure out what signs to look for that a beautiful woman at work might be open to dating outside of her race. That may mean that I’ve forgotten that women are women and I should just look for signs that she is open to dating me. This particular black woman is unbelievably intelligent, beautiful and a truly good person. Sexy doesn’t do her justice. I don’t know of a single executive who wouldn’t want the privilege of dating her. We’re all married but I’m officially divorced in less than two weeks if all goes well. And I am nervous about asking her out. I’m an executive and she is a couple of levels away from being one. She has never done anything inappropriate but I think she may flirt with me. Wish me luck. I would date her, marry her if we got to that stage, and have 2.5 children with her if that’s what she wanted. I’ve worked with her for more than two years and always admired her. During the last six months I see her differently. Nothing ghetto, nothing assimilated. Just a well-traveled brilliant women with impeccable manners and taste. Wish me luck.
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You might want to read this from the Funky Brown Chick so that you do not do anything completely boneheaded:
http://funkybrownchick.com/2009/04/20/how-to-date-a-black-woman/
Good luck!
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I believe that white men ARE interested in dating black woman…mostly if they can have the attractive ones.
I’ve personally met many white men that (really) are VERY attracted to black women but, they’ve shown little to NO interset in black women who carry EXTRA weight.
I know it sounds very shallow, however, when two people meet for the first time, initially, there is a PHYSICAL attraction. Once they get to know each other the physical attraction becomes secondary.
I’m sorry if I offended anyone, that is not my intent. I just wanted to comment on what I’ve witnessed personally.
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sk, what is it that constitutes ‘Extra Weight’ Extra weight according to what? Because there are Black women who look like blueberries with legs who have white husbands/boyfriends, etc. And there are black women who look like Halle Berry who can’t ge a white man to save their life.
So what is this ‘extra weight’? Is it extra according to western standards? Is it the ‘big butt’ or the ‘curves’? I don’t think there’s ever any one reason why anyone won’t date anyone, least of all the idea of ‘Extra Weight’.
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As I stated earlier…again, my intent was merely to pass along what I’ve witnessed personally! Erin, of course I’m referring to western standards as that is where I reside…
Halle Berry is HALF black and I believe is currently in a long term relationship with a WHITE Canadian man; her dating problems were with Black men…
I have three brothers and NONE of them or their friends have EVER been remotely interested in a “blueberry” of ANY race…so I guess you are correct, it has nothing to do with race or EXTRA WEIGHT…
In reality, there is someone out there for everyone.
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sk: Among well-known black women, which ones would you say have extra weight and which ones do not? I am interested in where it is you draw the line.
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Well, SK, most white women aren’t exactly a size two either. In fact, the average woman is what, a size 14? Like Abagond asked, what do you define as “thin” and “extra weight”? I’m curious.
Halle Berry was a bad example. And emphasizing that she’s “half black” as you say, proves what? That model she’s with was not her first white man, so she obviously has problems with men. Be they black or white.
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1. Extra weight as in Hour Glass shape, Pear
shape, or Apple shape?
2. Extra Weight as in Beyonce? OR Extra Weight
as in Monique?
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I didn’t say Halle Berry. I said looked like Halle Berry, implying that they were considered more beautiful than most. Her love life and ancestry had nothing to do with my argument. I’ll restate. There are black women of every shape and size paired with white men.
Extra weight on a black woman has nothing to do with it, because “extra weight” on a white woman probably has the same effect. I’ve seen and heard guys say that they’d never date a woman who’s too fat, skinny, or of a certain race, but I’ve never seen or heard a guy say “Oh, I only like the fat chicks if they’re white. Black girls have to be extra thin for me to date them.” or similar.
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Has anyone ever heard the term she’s “thick” or he’s “portly” this is just a nice way of saying your “fat” or overweight.
The average woman is a size 14? I don’t think so…
“Extra weight as in Monique” – yes, not a healthy look.
“Beyonce” is a big girl, but she’s a healthy size and her look is a great one.
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SK: My own take on the thin/thick/fat thing:
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Abagond, your link was interesting…
I do “get” your point…
I agree/disagree with some of your perceptions/comments. For example:
You catergorized Jennifer Lopez as “white” when she clearly is not (nor is she black)However, I would agree she is “thick” just as is Beyonce.
Your list and definition of “thin” women is severly flawed…Diana Ross, Kate Moss are “thin” Amerie has a very shapely body style…whereas Jennifer Hudson is listed as “thick” in reality she mostly borders on being fat – still she is a very BEAUTIFUL woman.
Also, you separated black from white, why? The color (or lack there of) has nothing to do with the state of being thin, thick or fat…race does not determine which catergory a woman fits/falls.
Since society is procreating rapidly with different races/nationalities than their own, my argument is much more valid than yours. Eventually, when we look at a woman we won’t be able to catergorize her body by her race as we won’t be sure of EXACTLY what her ethinicity is…
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Ha! Abagond strikes again with the magnetic posts.
Quite frankly, I think there exists a preconceived notion of what “Black” means(too much stock tends to be placed in it), too often is it interchangeable for words like poor, uneducated, and so forth so the needling starts. While there is no substitute for having good sense, stressing racial stereotypes and prescribed gender roles will only cause problems because you’re hung up on everything the person is not(or what you think they’re not) so you can’t see everything they are and that kills any chance of healthy communication on a human level, communication devoid of the baggage of color. When we stop approaching things this way, we’ll stop condemning groups of people. In this case, white men and black women.
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SK calling Jennifer Hudson “fat” proves Abagond’s point.
I agree, Lopez hardly qualifies as “white”. At least, in the U.S. She’s actually a Puerto Rican “muluta”- Afro-Irberian (probably with some Taino roots also), like most of her fellow Boricuas in the States.
The vast majority of Americans procreate with people of their same racial background. But yeah, the smaller minority of people who don’t is growing and is more visible than ever.
Yes, the average woman in America is a size 14. Whether that’s “thin”, “thick” or “fat”, depends on individual perception. And the actual woman. Every woman carries weight differently.
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SK:
1. Jennifer Lopez, etc: Oh yeah, sorry. I used to count Latin Americans, Middle Easterners and Wasians as white. I have since learned that they are not pure enough. My mistake. I replaced Jennifer Lopez with Sophia Loren. Thanks.
2. In regard to particular women:
Kate Moss – I agree she is thin, but I said that in the post.
Diana Ross – I said nothing about her (did I?), but I agree that she is thin.
Amerie – thin, not even close to thick. A sign of this is the way she plays up her legs.
Jennifer Hudson – at the upper end of thick, but still thick.
3. I wrote the post as “thick black women” and not “thick women” because that post came from looking at what keywords people were hitting this blog with. They wanted “thick black women”, not “thick women”. And besides, I could not think of many famous thick women of other races, so I went with it.
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I’m a bw who is attracted to white males. I care about myself so I refuse to eat McDonald’s and other junk fast foods, I excercise and pamper myself. Many men of all races are turned off by fat women because they appear to be sloppy and non-healthy. Even bm that’s why they date shapely ww. I’ve heard men say that big, heavy women appear less feminine. Face facts, that’s the way of the world. I prefer to be shapely. To each his own…
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I say F’em…and I mean that in the negative figurative sense. I don’t and never will want a “white” man regardless of his mindset racist or otherwise. I don’t exist for his approval or disapproval. The fact that a study was done shows me how low this society can sink, granted it has sunk lower many times on many levels.
The crux of the issue is the viability of a black male-female relationship that will develop into a life-long, positive union, leading to an unbreakable family structure. As it stands in this society every device known and unknown to humans has been used to degrade, defile, and destroy our black men, leaving us without candidates for relationships or marriage. Far too many black man have become the roles created for them by this society and so have many of us black women. The end result, genocide.
No, I don’t care how many or even if some white male has thoughts about black women. The truth is there is no room for that nonsense at least not in my world where I am about creating a family, a nation…one that is abounding in love, power and wealth for and by people the color of me and mine. In that world there is no room for white outsiders. They have their world and their women, and their women are given every privilege there is pretty much, so I say save the studies for the history books as they do not mean diddly to me. I’m sure other happy-to-be-dark and lovely sistas will agree. For me it’s the wise, powerful, loving black man as lover, friend, husband, father.
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It is a great thing that we can all share our opinions and speak or write what is on our minds……
I don’t have much else to say. Race in America is huge; but regardless of how other people view who I date or Marry It ultimately will come down to our happiness and strength of relationship and less based on the color of our skin.
A reminder for memorial day, to the people who helped show me that color does not determine quality:
[audio src="http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/docs/14taps.mp3" /]
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alkema is right! through the last six year I’ve been married to a beautiful BW, The color hue
disappears as you go through the difficulties that life will throw at you. We are not blind to the racism that exists in the world but we refuse to allow it to impact the commitment and love that we share. Men and women come in all different shapes, sizes, and yes colors; once we realize that we can be attracted to any one in that spectrum, and stop making such a big fuss about who we choose as a mate, the easier it will be for racial healing to take place.
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hello everyone……..thought i’d give a racists point of view
personally, i dont give a fuck about what any of u coons think.
black girls are just not attractive and that’s a fact. it’s not your skin………but your face. blacks have ape-looking faces with wide gorilla noses.
plus, most of you smell.
heh you obviously don’t know europeans. eastern europe is one of the most racist places in the world. im from poland now living in the u.s. and slavs hate blacks.
my white brothers in russia, poland, serbia, and crotia are doing a great job of keeping you out of their country.
the russians even post their beatings online so all non-whites fear 😉
anyway, i dont really give a shit about what any you think. white nationalism is on the rise and we’re here to stay. the souther poverty law center even reports a drastic increase in white nationalism across europe and america.
they estimate there are 150+ skinhead gangs alone in the u.s. which is more than all black gangs combined
SIEG HEIL!!!! HEIL HITLER!!!! WPWW!!!! 14/88
kris
my white brothers in russia
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fear us coons!!!!!!
SIEG HEIL
SIEG HEIL
SIEG HEIL
***********and if the coon who owns this website deletes my comments then this shows he is fearful. he is fearful of the truth that we are rising!!!!
only a matter of time before new concentration camps are open….and this time filled with blacks!!!! 😉
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No, it just means you are way off topic.
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Your parents must be very proud….
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ummm how do i post videos? ill show you some scary shit of my brothers in russia trained in knife-to-knife combat and paramilitary tactics. it’s very dangerous for a coon to go to russia.
in america, the neo-nazis use a different approach. they are infiltrating the military and becoming trained.
god i wish i could you everything going on!!!! im so happy =)
you coons have a lot to fear within the next 10-15 years….that’s all i can say
SIEG HEIL!
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This ape spreads aids person is certifiably pitiful. You’re the one who feels threatened dude.
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hah i dont care what you guys think.
then call all of eastern europe pitiful because the neo-nazi movements are taking 50% of vote in serbia and croatia!
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Mr Ape:
Your first comment comparing black women to gorillas was, lamentably, on topic. But your neo-Nazi call-to-arms is not. If you persist I will have you marked as a source of spam.
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okay why i find black women ugly.
1. they have ape faces
2. they have nasty ass hair
3. most have fake hair
4. they smell like shit
5. they all look the same (brown apes_
6. they have gorilla noses
all i love is pure white women!!!! nothin better than a blue eyed or green eyed white women 😉
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The internet is way too anonymous I’d like to know your age and link to other garbage you insist on posting, if only to prove my hypothesis correct.
I’ll bet your underage and hear that from family members and lack most ability to critically think for yourself.
Well at least I have one nailed…
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how do i upload a picture of my self?
damn im a slav ready to gun down some niggers for real
i bet yah love that mp5 i hold in my hands too
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anonymous?????
wtf lol ill tell you my name, where i live, and show you a picture of myself
like i give a shit………no nigger can touch me, unless they wanna be eating bullets from a mac10 or mp5
SIEG HEIL!!!
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pathetic, upload your picture if you can figure it out. While your at it tell everyone why you hate people that don’t look like you. What is the reason?
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@ apes spread aids: I’m sorry if I missed something but, where do all these “pure” people exist? Are you doing a dna test on these pure blood white women, to make sure they are all white lol? Well good luck on your search because more than likely you won’t find any..people have been mixing since the beginning of time, which means more than likely your mixed as well, hell you may even be mixed with a little “ape” blood (as you call it) yourself….
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Your comments, dear sir, are beyond ridiculous. It’s bordering on absurd.
There are beautiful and not-so-beautiful women of all races. You say you love pure, blue eyed/green eyed white women? That’s your preference then fine. Now please get over yourself. We get it.
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I’m jealous this dweeb gets all kinds of attention and I post something and lucky to get one comment… lol I guess my posts are a bit boring.
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how do i upload a video? and how do i upload a picture?
i would really love to show you niggers your fate. GAS CHAMBERS
because russia for russians! poland for polish! etc
the rest of you niggers can go back to africa and die from AIDS or famine
dun call me sir hun…….im in my early 20s
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You’re certainly correct, apes. I shouldn’t address you as sir. It’s a title fit for only people worthy of respect.
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See where this conversations goes, with neo nazi’s proclaimations, black women dont want them , they don’t like us so when can this thread end.
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once again, because of one sicko, the whole tone of the thread gets destroyed. it’s a shame.
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sk said:
I believe that white men ARE interested in dating black woman…mostly if they can have the attractive ones.
What the fuck do you mean by “if they can find the attractive ones” Please expand on this.
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abagond,
How is it that an obvious ANTI-BW RACIST is being allowed to spew his DISGUSTING ANTI-BW HATE on this thread? What is the point of that?
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to apes spread aids:
I hope you die.
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To “Apes spread Aids” – Slavic culture – historically speaking – were brutish thugs usefull to their clan chiefs as fodder for noblemens wars. Young men such as yourself are closer to animals then a person of african race. You certainly have not moved beyound the slavic, tribal mentallity – waring with your neighboring country men, bashing in each others brains with poorly made broad swords. Sad really.
And I say this as a German / Scottish women with green eyes and white skin (which for some odd reason you seem to hold in high regard)married to a German/welsh man – and mother of three blonde haired / blue eyed boys…
You keep saying Hiel Hilter – why – he committed suicide, over extened his resources and crippled his country for years to come. He was by no means a great leader – but a man filled with hate and evil. He was a brillant speaker but was an idiot in other things…he over estimated the comman soilder and left them out in the field to starve to death. And had he not killed himself – would have died very quickly from an american snipper rifle or at the hands of his own people. oh and he had brown eyes and brown hair…
To bring this post back on topic.
I firmly believe that the numbers of BW / WM relationships is low because of a cultural difference coupled with perceived backlash of inter racial relationships. Also, black women – be it culture or necessity – tend to be more outspoken and forceful then women of other races..the heads of households.
While a black men see’s a strong black women as a mate potential, it does not detract from his masculinity. Im other cultures, not just white…a powerful women does detract from her male spouse. which is odd really. Its almost as if they perceive a set level of power in each relationship and its sliding scale of power almost…where if a womens power is high, then the mans is less.
I dont think that a black womens appearance is what keeps men of other races from being interested…maybe for a few. But it is more cultural. Their are amazingly beautiful black women and some really ugly ones. But just turn on Cops to see some really AWFUL, FAT bleach blond haired white women who feel out of the ugly tree and hit every ugly branch and ugly stick on the way down. Probably see “Mr. Aids” girlfriend as well.
You sir are a hate spreading ignoramous and do not represent me in any way shape or form.
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Dedabets. I think your sliding scale comment is definitely on point.
I think it’s because that one of the few matriarchal cultures is the one of the black community. Strong women are wanted are needed in a culture that’s had its men ripped away from them. So I guess that’s why we seem so over bearing and outspoken. It seems to me that the mother runs the house, at least for all of the black homes I’ve seen or been in, and a strong woman is what’s needed.
But I don’t see why that’s such a detriment in other societies. Life insurance commercials that target men always confuse me, because it makes it seem like the family would die on the street should something happen to the man. Are women really that weak and helpless? Or is that just the way we are supposed to be in this culture?
I fear I may have been rambling. But I completely agree with you Dedabets.
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Interesting theory, but what of those black women who aren’t “outspoken” or “strong” are they automatically thrown under the stereotype regardless and thus not even considered romantically by some non-black males?
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Women are not that week or helpless…but we are taught early to hid that strength…to pretend to be helpless. Black women – culturally had to step up …for what ever reasons…thus they assumed the dominate behavior and had to rid themselves of any helpless appearance.
Ben franklin once said that the most powerful force in the whole world is the helplessness of a beautiful women…
I have often changed this quote to say “perceived” helplessness…because often a womenw ho apepars helpless is doing it to make a man feel more manly.
I admit I do it often…everything from asking help with a jar lid when I have a perfectly good jar lid opener mounted under my cabinet and I can do it just fine when he is not around to cultural things we are taught…the tilting of the head downward in a submissive posture and looking up at a man for a moment then down again…All says I am small and delicate…save me and protect me.
In a world ruled by men..I (on purpose) send all the physical ques of sub concious submission (especially the looking in the eyes and away) and body posture…while being out going and friendly and on the surface appearing confident and dominate. A women who can make a man think conciously that she is smart and forceful and dominate and appeal to his subconcious as submissive and needing him is a women that will succeed.
If you are simply dominate and forceful – you dont play to his subconcious programing and he feels threatened by you. Society, culture, civilization occur because of women I think…to provide us with a safe surrounding to reproduce. We drive men to do these things…its their base instinct to protect. A women who doesnt need their protection is a women who doesnt need them. And I think on a
subconcious level – makes them fear her.
now look who is rambeling
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Asha: Yes. Definitely. I can say this because I’m one of those quiet sorts of people. I’m also shy and not prone to being outgoing and friendly, nor will I speak up when I’m angry. Yet, instead of being seen as shy and somehow endearing, I’m seen as being passive aggressive. So even if I keep my mouth shut, somehow I still end up being the angry black chick.
It’s mind boggling. I get asked all the time why I’m being so mean, when in truth, I was just being quiet and thoughtful.
So it seems that in order to fit the ideas of a ‘nice’ attractive black woman, I have to do all my thinking silently with a big fat false smile on my face.
end rant.
Dedabets:
Some women really are brainwashed into thinking that they can’t do anything, that they actually ARE helpless. That’s how deeply ingrained our society makes this ideal. If you’ve ever lived for a week with a group of girls, it comes out really quickly, that they believe they need a guy to do all sorts of things.
Killing bugs, opening jars, building things, breaking bricks, carrying heavy objects. Girls can do this, and it shouldn’t be a danger to a woman’s femininity for her to kill (or take outside) the big scary spider.
In a world ruled by men I don’t want a guy who’s so insecure that he can’t handle a woman who can handle herself. I don’t like being worried over, I want a guy who understands that I need him, but that I can handle it if something were to happen to him. I think the stress put on guys because of the whole damsel in distress idea is completely unfair. Imagine believing that if you left the house, your entire family, everything you loved, would wither away because the root of the home was gone.
But the other side of the spectrum is true, definitely. If a woman is too over bearing and acts like she doesn’t need a man for anything but impregnation, what’s the reason for him to stay there? There has to be a balance found.
Hopefully I’ll find a guy who understands that I can totally open pickle jars and de-bug the household. But that at the same time I do need him around, for emotional reasons, and to carry the groceries. 😉
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i consider myself a women “to ride the river with”. Its a saying from a Lois L’Amour book.
It means she can handle herself on the frontier.
I can hunt, live off the land, kill butgs etc. I can shot a gun better than most men. I can change a tire, bleed break lines etc. I prefer to let my husband take out the garbage…he prefers that I cook dinner etc. Our roles in our marriage are very traditional..but it doesnt mean I couldnt handle things if I had to. A women does not need to be loud and aggresively outspoken to be strong. I am more the speak softly and carry a big stick kinda girl.
When I need to be strong and outgoing I am
When I need to be submissive and soft …I am
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Two small corrections to some of the comments here:
1. It is Louis L’Amour, not Lois L’Amour. That one letter makes a big difference in this case.
2. Hitler saw Slavs as lesser beings and was in the process of wiping them out in Poland and Russia to make room for the Germans. So if you are a neo-Nazi Slav, please read “Mein Kampf” or at least get on the Internet and know the facts.
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lol – your right abagond – lois is WAY different from Louis…thanks
On point 2 – excellent point. I almost ignored that troll all together…but hate for so called “white suprimists” idiots to go unanswered… it just…ticks me off to no end…and I didnt want you all to think i was okay with it.
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iam deaf man i let you know love is no matter were your heart is does not matter you love black woman if i was white but iam deaf black woman is hearing she does learn use asl sign talk with me but some time all wahite woman does want me if i were alone at home i had no good time but sex does not matter love olny in your heart went you care some time i was along i saw people all had girl friends boy friends inapple bee resnut i seem talk each other but all some woman does like me becuse she walk way from me mind not work out but most deaf people tell me silly question there say that if black woman has hiv or not quit sure deaf told me story by not going over by date a black woman but in my mind went i try1st time i had naver date black woman before iam 59 year my age is hard find me rigth preson but if white woman does get along with me that is why i get bore stay home but i look for new love people white woman thik she does not want marry a black guys becuse she said she hear about oj a running back bill runback i hear thah there kill his wife but for now today does matter you love black woman if she love white guys sex is does not matter you love in side to your heart go head date black woman but does not hurt you olny you can try work out see how you like it or not up to you but iam deaf becuse she need use asl sign that is why iam deaf if she does not want marry deaf guys that is up to them that all i know your best mr stephen page e-mailme soon ask me question bye
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To ape,
Go to Hades! You have nothing positive to write on this blog except your racist/sexist hatred. Please go back to your respective country where you belong until you learn how to write civilly.
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“apes” enjoys posting here because he’s interested in dating BLACK women
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it’s basically not about the race in general. it’s about the “bad girls” of the race which they don’t like. If those BW would get their acts right, surely race wouldn’t be a problem. afterall, likeness may be based from looks, but love is developed when your partner has the “beautiful soul”. 🙂
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I lived and taught at international schools in Eastern Europe from ’05 to ’06 for 15 months. During that time, I traveled to both Croatia (Croatian men LOVE them some black women) and to Poland. Poles are friendly, but some of them are racist. I found this to be quite interesting because I visited Auschwitz and learned that more Poles (Slavs) were slaughtered by the nazis than Jews.
In Prague, where I lived, over ninety percent of the African men were married to Czech women. My white American roommate used complain about how it was hard to meet and date Czech girls because they preferred to date an marry black guys.
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cheska897…I believe you’ve stated the “REAL” issue concerning this topic…
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I find your studies and “statistics” somewhat confusing and laughable. I’m 48, a medium to dark skinned black woman and have dated interracially since age 16. In fact, I was married to a blue eyed blond Irish-American for ten years. I’ve never had a problem with white men approaching me. It’s the black men who seem to look through me as if I don’t exist and want only white women.
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I am a black woman well, 19 yrs old, lol, attracted to all ethnicities/races and just recently started dating a white guy.
I wanted to make a comment regarding the statement that white guys don’t even look at black women as women. it is so true, i see it every day on the train, it’s like i’m nothing to them, they may look a bit curious but show no interest at all, and it annoys me. I also went to school upstate NY and with 83% white people, there was no interracial dating between a black woman and a white guy, it was always the other way around. Everyone hung out with their “kind” or if they didn’t fit, found some loners or hung out alone.
Those are my experiences.
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Emmanuela Says:
I am a black woman well, 19 yrs old, lol, attracted to all ethnicities/races and just recently started dating a white guy.
I wanted to make a comment regarding the statement that white guys don’t even look at black women as women. it is so true, i see it every day on the train, it’s like i’m nothing to them, they may look a bit curious but show no interest at all, and it annoys me.
laromana says,
Emmanuela,
It’s so sad to hear that a young BW in this day and age is still experiencing the ANTI-BW attitude from MOST WM of not being viewed as a woman solely because you’re Black. I’m older than you and have also endured this ANTI-BW treatment from MOST WM in America, all of my life. I look forward to the day when this ANTI-BW attitude will be destroyed and the HUMANITY, DIGNITY, and FEMININITY OF BW will be respected by ALL WM.
i/r dater by default Says:
I find your studies and “statistics” somewhat confusing and laughable. I’m 48, a medium to dark skinned black woman and have dated interracially since age 16. In fact, I was married to a blue eyed blond Irish-American for ten years. I’ve never had a problem with white men approaching me. It’s the black men who seem to look through me as if I don’t exist and want only white women
laromana says,
i/r dater by default,
I agree with you that BM “seem to look through me as if I don’t exist and want only white women” and I think it’s great your IRR’s with WM have been positive and even led to a long marriage. However, your individual experience with WM is NOT representative of that of MOST BW’s IRR’s with MOST WM in America.
On a blog I belong to the question was asked “WHY DO MORE BM SEEM TO OPENLY LOVE WW THAN WM WHO OPENLY LOVE BW”
– A WM responded, “Because most white guys that are interested in women of other races are more worried about what their peers think than in being true to themselves. That’s it.
-Some guys would ask me some pretty crude questions about the NON-WW I dated, and they usually admitted they found her attractive, but what it boiled down to was that they were worried they would be ostracized.
-A lot of white men have these types of hang-ups. I just don’t worry about that kind of thing, especially since I know there are a lot of guys who are jealous and wish they had the courage.
This WM’s honest answer confirms what I and MANY BW in America, have experieced when it comes to how MOST WM treat us. They may be attracted to BW but they allow ANTI-BW COWARDICE (or the ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE of others/American society) to determine whether or not to have a relationship with a BW.
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There are an estimated 1.5 million Black men in prison and another 3.5 million on probation. Black males make up more than 70 percent of the total prison population, even though they make up only 6 percent of the U.S. population.
Although blacks are 12% of the population in reality it is just 2% of the blacks that commit 50% of the murders and a greater percentage of other crimes. Consider: black females – 6%. Blacks from zero yrs. to 12 yrs. and black males from 50-100 years commit an infinitesimal percentage of the crimes. Therefore we are left with two percent. If we eliminate crimes committed by this two percent from the U.S. statistics our country compares very favorably with all Western countries. Fact — blacks kill 7 times more than whites kill. Fact — blacks kill whites 20 times more than whites kill blacks. Fact — blacks mug or commit group crime against whites 50 times more than whites commit against blacks. Fact — blacks rape white women 2000 (yes 2000) times more than whites rape black women. In New York City, about 300 white women are raped by blacks every year BUT there has not been a black woman raped by a white male in anybody¢s memory (going back over 20 yrs.) Consider: Al Sharpton had to go upstate New York to find a hoax and that was almost 20 years ago. (Source NYT 4/22/05)
According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics 2004 report (released May 2006), blacks commit 54 percent of the homicides in America even though they constitute only 12 percent of the population.
An individual black male is seven times more likely to commit murder than an individual white male. It so happens that black felons commit 43 percent of aggravated assaults, 66 percent of armed robberies, 27 percent of rapes and 85 percent of interracial crimes of violence, mainly against whites (this last figure from a Justice Department report 2003). However, it’s not just in the United States. The greatest dicators in recent years have emerged in Africa. People like Idi Amin of Uganda, Hastings Kamuzu Banda in Malawi, Mobutu Sese Seko, in Zaire, self-anointed Emperor Bokassa of the Central African Republic, Mohammed Saidi Barre in Somalia, Sani Abacha of Nigeria, Robert Mugabe in Zimbabwe — the list is endless
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Josh…your statistics are quite interesting….who prepared your report? Probably a WHITE male…so those numbers are more than likely inflated?
Anyhow, the question is “Why so few white men marry black women”?
These stats only ask more questions than provide answers.
My question is: prior to such statistical records being kept, lets say, during times of slavery – how many white men do you suppose raped, murdered, etc, etc, etc. black women and men?
I would venture to say raped by white men against black women (slaves) was quite prevalent as there are many, many different shades of blacks…
The above reported stats don’t give a true concise picture of “blacks”
I know many white people (from the heart)and they are NOT superior to any other race. They have committed some of the most heinious crimes against mankind in the history of this country and throughout Europe, etc.
I guess we can agree that blacks are far from perfect…and whites may be even further?
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I believe MOST white men fantasize about black women in the most sexually explicit way possible…
I do (also) agree with laramona…the biggest problem for white men is (most) are so insecure within themselves and worry about their peers – they cannot handle the pressure, they crumble like a cracker…(no pun intended).
I’ve dated both white and black. Both (equally) have huge but different “hang ups”
By experience, one is NO better than the other…
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Josh:
You need to say something new or even try defending your position instead of always hitting my blog with the same long-ass comment.
Otherwise I will have to mark you as spam. This is your warning.
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Lynette…”I am a Black woman who continues to be pursued by many Black men EVEN WHILE MARRIED”
I believe you’ve answered your own question.
Some women (black or white) don’t fancy the idea of “being pursued” by someone that’s “married” or when they themselves are “married” – for MANY of us this is INSULTING – we don’t want someone elses’ spouse…to some marriage really is sacred.
It has nothing to do with being “angry”
I’ve known many married “black” men who feel that it is their inherited right to seek extra curricular relationships, although married…
Believe it or not, ALL black women are not raised with the expectation that there spouse will cheat on them and they just HAVE to deal with it because that is what (many) “black” males have done throughout history.
I have been pursued by black, white, hispanic, etc. I’m not angry OR stupid…
I have a high sense of self worth so I won’t go out with someones spouse – I know I’m BETTER than that!
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Lynette…You missed the whole point…have you ever dated other than a black male?
I would guess NOT (?) – that’s (maybe) why you’ve missed my entire point – not angry, not stupid -just strong enough to realize that I can expect to have a great relationship not on HIS terms but more of a compromising relationship…
I do date interracially whenever I chose to do so…
I know about all different races of men and black men are NOT at the top of my list..
I am considered by most men to be very attractive so I CAN pick and choose whom I want to date – I don’t subscribe my loyalty to ANY race; race is secondary to the PERSON I decide to go out with.
I have a great job, live in a great place, etc. I am a very happy person!
Again, I have a high sense of self worth which DOES offend some. Unfortunately, you misinterpreted it as “anger” I assure you it is not!
In reality, I’m not very attracted to “most” black men…although I have been out with a few.
I do agree with you that “Black men are the most flirtatious people ever”
Have a great day!
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Hi Lynette, sorry for the caps no offense meant not screaming just highlighting my point – again, sorry.
My daughter dates a black man, whom I love.
I’m proud, happy, satified with what God has made me!
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Lynette,
You ain’t say nothing wrong. LOL. I also have questioned the notion of “black men not persuing black women” on this blog. I see the same thing you see: countless black couples. And black men trying to get with every black woman they can! Married or not. Ugly or pretty. Fat or thin! LOL. You won’t believe some of the black women that these guys try to “push up on”. Shoot, not having teeth isn’t a dealbreaker for some of these guys!
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LOL, sometimes I wonder. I think we have similar values and the ability to see things for what they truly are. That’s rare in this day in age.
Off-topic, on TV, it’s all Michael Jackson all the time. The fact that MJ is gone is truly messing with my head. Wow. Almost surreal.
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What happened to that neo nazi troll!!!
He’s probably having incestral relations.
As to Josh. He needs to learn more history about 20th century dictators.
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When I was Erin’s age, my experience with WM was similar to hers. I was interested in them and expressed this to them, but nothing ever materialized from it.
I, however, don’t agree that WM aren’t interested in Black women because I live in Central Florida, which is often considered to be part of the racist South (I disagree with this too because most FL residents are transplants from the Midwest and the North) but I can easily count somewhere between 8 to 10 WM/BW marriages among my family, friends and co-workers. Only one couple has been married less than 10 years, and only one other has ended in divorce. If there are that many in my small circle, there are possibilities for still more.
Also, in the last three years, I have attracted the attention of more WM than ever before: at work (at least 4 – one with which I am currently in a relationship), at the supermarket, the gym, the mall… And, I’m not talking about a simple smile and a “hi.” I mean they really chat me up. It isn’t that I’m actively seeking them. I have always been an equal opportunity dater. I don’t much care what Ethnicity a man is. I love them too much to limit myself, so I have dated mostly Black and Hispanic men, but also a Middle Easterner, a half- Asian guy, and a Native American.
So, what changed? Well, for one thing, I am in my 40s now (however I look more than a decade younger – I get “hit on” by men in their late 20s) and living life with wreckless abandon. I no longer give a damn what others think of me. I live on my own terms, and it’s so much fun! I also look a bit different. I used to wear my hair straight and long, but I let my natural corkscrew curls grow out. Surprisingly, my hair is what get’s me noticed by men in general. I get “Hey sista, I love that natural look you’re rockin’” from the brothers and “wow, your hair is cool. I’ve never seen anything like it.” from White guys. This disproves the broad generalization that WM don’t like us if we look ethnic. I also think race relations are changing (a little and very slowly) and WM are feeling more comfortable about expressing their interest in us (Blanc2 has made this pt. before).
Ironically, the man I’m involved with had never considered dating a BW before me and he wasn’t my “type” AT ALL. I had known who he was and greatly admired him for the work that he was doing, but we’d never conversed. That all changed when I helped him with a computer application we were using. The more I learned about him, the more I wanted to know, and the rest, as they say, is history. It hasn’t been easy. He came into this with a head-full of stereotypes and misconceptions but Just like the black women who comment here, I am strong, opinionated, and outspoken and I check him on the foolishness. What he has learned is that I am also intelligent, fun, loving, loyal, I love to travel and I like to try new things. What has been great is that he’s been open, listening, and willing to modify his views.
One final comment and I’ll end this book: none of the men in the IR marriages I know of fit into any kind of mold. Some are artists, one is in full-time ministry, several are in Education…
My advice: stop lamenting about phantom WM and get out there and meet some REAL men of all ethnicities.
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I’ve noticed a lot more WM/BW pairings in the media lately.
The most notable of course is Spock/Uhura in the new trek movie (YAY!)
but also, I think it was an Overstock.com commercial. Though the children were obviously white, the wife (or romantic interest) was black, with trademark ethnic hair.
There were a few others that I cannot quite remember right now, but I think it’s slowly changing. That makes me super happy as well. The acceptable black woman is no longer the token curly haired wife of the token bald/curly haired husband at a deliciously white bread barbeque. I think these pairings are helping to acknowledge that black women come in different shapes sizes and hair textures, just like all of the other ethnicities. It’s humanizing.
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I marked the neo-Nazi troll as spam.
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thanks internet to give the possibility to read so many views.
mynameismyname it’s always exciting to read your comments.
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A man who isn’t an ANTI-BW RACIST/HATER doesn’t take isolated negative traits that can apply to ANY woman of ANY race and generalize them to ALL BW.
A man who isn’t an ANTI-BW RACIST/HATER treats BW as INDIVIDUALS and NOT as STEREOTYPES based on ANTI-BW LIES and MYTHS.
A man who isn’t an ANTI-BW RACIST/HATER respects the HUMANITY, DIGNITY, FEMININITY, AND BEAUTY of BW instead of expecting them to conform to White/non-Black beauty standards.
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Hello Laromana,
This post sure attract plenty of racist trolls who hate Blacks as a people and Black women in particular. They get defensive when confronted with facts about the beauty of Black women, why so few White men marry Black women, that there is still racism and sexism in the world today. These are just a few I’ve confronted with. It’s worse out there at the racist American Renaissance. Heck, these are the men who are bent on revising history to fit their evil, racialist agenda.
Laromana and others, please stay strong and resolute. Don’t let the haters grind you down.
La Reyna
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La Reyna,
Thanks so much for your uplifting words of encouragement. BW and our supporters need to stand strong and keep challenging the lies, myths, and stereotypes promoted by ANTI-BW RACIST/HATERS.
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Although part 2 of your “study” is a bit better, it is still very unprofessional (see my comments on part 1). To say the “Columbia study found that white men are dogs and only care about looks” is ridiculous. The reason you are getting so many angry, defensive (and sometimes stupid) comments from white men is because they are offended and want to hurt back. And, the One Drop Rule from hundreds of years ago has no impact on people today when choosing marriage. Just as white people living TODAY cannot be responsible for the faults of slavery. My ancestors (and the vast majority of others) came to America long after slavery was abolished, yet I am lumped into this category of “racist white men.” Please ask yourselves these kinds of questions.
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I hate to shatter so many myths at once. I am a white professional male based in England, and my girlfriend is from Rwanda. She doesn’t find black men attractive and has only ever dated white guys. I am open-minded and have dated English, Indian, Filipina, Scandinavian and Italian girls. My ebony girlfriend is very loving, caring, passionate and affectionate. She is loyal, gentle, intelligent and fanatical about cleanliness. People sometimes look at us as if we are aliens, but we both find that really funny, and a turn-on in fact. Because our relationship is still considered taboo among both black and white people, it makes it all the more exciting! It’s time the racists moved on and found something else to complain about, such as world poverty and disease…
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“No, it’s just fact that she was actually intelligent in what she was saying. Alot of the racist blacks are the ones living on welfare and in prison. The more intelligent ones like Condoleza Rice and such would admit to such a thing.
“To Tereasa: And that’s a stereotype classifying whites as 95% racist. When will you people understand? It’s like I’m fight with little kids. You just can’t admit defeat.
Well anyways, to all the blacks who are not ignorant such as the ones on this website, I commemorate you!!! I praise the blacks that admit to double-standards and such. So to all my educated blacks, I hope we get past racism and we can start being unified. We just have to erase the racist whites and blacks on this site.”
hi, have been following this topic on and off, i am quoting someone above, I had to, it’s just so ignorant, first of all he goes to say ” to all the blacks who are not ignorant” that right there is pretty ignorant in itself, and he even says ” she was actually intelligent” did you expect her to be a stupid, as if to say most blacks are stupid and most black women are the welfare/ghetto stereotype, that’s the problem, the majority of black women ARE NOT “ghetto” and have that attitude, that’s a stereotype and obviously this idiot’s excuse to demean black women. If you have a problem with black people why not be man enough to step up and own it instead of trying to paint us all with one brush. You yourself are the racist ______ you accuse other of being, and yes, many many white men and white women for that matter, overlook black women and men as attractive or “good folk” simply based on race, knowing anything about them doesn’t seem to be relevant. that is just a sad fact of living in this society. You havent had to look at us for people for so long so you are just used to doing it, we are “there” when you choose to see us, otherwise invisible, and that is fine by me for people like that. People like that who are too blind with self importance and white privilege are not people i want to know anyways, Good day!
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Adam,
Thanks for sharing about your positive IRR with a BW and helping to shatter the LIES, MYTHS, and STEREOTYPES being posted by SOME ANTI-BW RACIST/HATER WM on this post.
There need to be more WM with your mindset who respect the HUMANITY, DIGNITY, and FEMININITY of BW and aren’t afraid to seriously date and/or marry them.
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Normally I wouldn’t question someones integrity.
“It is true that so few white men marry
black women simply because **they** *hate* ***us***.
They were all taught since they were
little to look at ***ALL*** black people
as sub-human and to look at whites as
demi-gods.”
Honestly in any college class we would know that the question is wrong with the inclusion of the word ALL.
I do not know your personal experiences, but as a white man I guarantee that their is at least 1 exception to your rule. I think that your post is trolling to elicit a response.
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As someone who is considered white, I find black women visually the most attractive…most white women don’t have the tone and definition black women possess, and have small lips and flat bums…there are exceptions of course but white women really do nothing for me…they are also much, much easier to talk into sex and most of them will suck your dick on the first date…
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Jhem, you obviously picking up some skanks. There are easy woman on all sides of the spectrum. So your comment is pointless.
A beautiful woman is beautiful regardless of her race but my preference is towards white woman and having white children. If “you all” think that this is racist, tough!
“black shaped nose” of the Great Sphinx was shot off” Bull! Upper Egypt was ruled by Egyptions as you see them today. Lower Egypt was more Nubian. Stop hi-jacking other peoples history!
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Dude, you clearly do NOT know Egyptian history.
Upper Egypt is the Southern part of Eygpt ruled by Nubians and they have ruled all of Egypt at one time.
Lower Egypt is the Northern part of Egypt.
The egyptians of today are mostly Arabs who invaded Egypt under the Islamic Empire.
Nobody knows what ancient egyptians prior to the invasion really looked like but there were not arabs of today.
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IDIOT/LIAR ALERT: To the person who keeps claiming that they are being called racist for preferring to marry within their race –
NO ONE has said that it is RACIST to have a preference for a partner of your OWN RACE.
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laromana, cut down on the speed. Your comments are a little heavy.
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kat: Got it mixed up: Can you tell me why then from Ethiopia there is nothing remarkable in terms of great civilizations, exception of course in Zimbabwe, which is nothing to write home about?
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W.,
Take your OWN UNSOLICITED advice.
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Simple fact is that there is alot of unsubstantiated facts being thrown around here. Some are ridiculous; back up some of these claims with a personal experience at the very least.
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Wayne Says:
Fri 17 Jul 2009 at 20:10:21
kat: Got it mixed up: Can you tell me why then from Ethiopia there is nothing remarkable in terms of great civilizations, exception of course in Zimbabwe, which is nothing to write home about?
Wayne,
What nothing to say about Ethiopia?
Ethiopia is a country having an old civilization. It is considered to be the cradle of the humanity (the city of Hadar, which saw being born Lucy), as a crossroad of civilization and a museum of nationalities.
The Egyptian Civilization, the sculpture and the writing had the roots in Ethiopia.
So Africa « which WHITES people wants to get for a continent without historical past, sheltered the most ancient guides of the humanity in the way of civilization; it is those who have create arts, religion (particularly monotheism), literature, first philosophical systems, writing, precise sciences (physical appearance, mathematics, mechanics, astronomy, calendar), medicine, architecture, agriculture… While the rest of the earth (Asia, Europe: Greece, Rome.) been plunged into barbarism.
Finally,Africa saw being born and blooming of so prestigious civilizations as those of Big Zimbabwe, Nubie, Ethiopia, Ghana, Mali, Nigeria – and who delivered during more than a millennium, of masterpiece among the most special and amazing known this day, furnishing the biggest museums and as the most informing of the collectors of the whole world still search. an invaluable provision in the historical heritage of the big human family
I really had to say it even it’s very long.
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Nubiah
Some say that the Egyption civilization’s root stem from Sumaria, which I agree with to some degree. I defently wont argue with you on this subject as our knowledge of history is at best, basic, especially pre-history which to me is the most facinating. Hopefully one day we will have the truth regardless of who it suits!
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Wayne,
For information The Nubian civilization (Ethiopia ancient Sudan) is more ancient than The Egyptian.
The Egyptian civilization is originally from the south of the Sudan.
There are many more pyramids which were discovered in ancient Nubia and more ancient than those of Egypt.
It is clear that you and me will never be able to agree with each other.
When it comes to Africain civilization everybody want to protest, but if you speak about Greek civilization everybody agrees with everything.
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Nubiah
Everyone is claiming that their race is the architect of civilization. We only have a record of the last 6-8 thousand years. There were greater civilizations long before that. The Library of Alexander had maps of the Antarctica that are so precise, we can only verify them now with satellite that can penetrate the ice that is over a mile thick. Makes you wonder?
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may I suggest seeing a counsellor? a black one of course, since a white one would feed you “lies” 🙂
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Ok, I cant really say that white men who make generalized comments about black women are necessarily racist. Its more a cultural difference that they are trying to grasp. If they see a dark skinned girl who acts and talks as they do they would be less apt to use these generalizations against her. But for dark skinned women who are part of the mainstream culture of the darker skinned people. They will use these.
It is no different than the way black men talk about white women, they see them as white first and women second(for whoever keeps saying that).
The reason we see color first, is because we need to know how to approach a person who has a high likelihood of not sharing our culture.
Its the same way we’d look at someone as being African first, or a white person would look at someone being Jewish.
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AreWhiteMenRacist? Says:
Ok, I cant really say that white men who make generalized comments about black women are necessarily racist. Its more a cultural difference that they are trying to grasp. If they see a dark skinned girl who acts and talks as they do they would be less apt to use these generalizations against her. But for dark skinned women who are part of the mainstream culture of the darker skinned people. They will use these.
laromana’s response:
Your comments are not correct. On this blog, SOME clearly ANTI-BW RACIST comments have been made by CERTAIN WM about ALL BW (regardless of culture, skin tone, educational level, etc.).
These SAME WM have made positive, race neutral comments about OTHER NON-WW (eg. Asian women, Hispanic women, etc.)who are also “culturally different” from them.
ANTI-BW RACISM (like ALL racism) is NOT RATIONAL. BW aren’t to blame for the LIES, MYTHS, and STEREOTYPES that ANTI-BW RACIST/HATERS choose to use against them solely because they refuse to view/treat BW as INDIVIDUAL HUMAN BEINGS.
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laromana
Your comments regarding white people are full of hate and anger. As much as you dislike racism against you. You project it out towards white people. Kinda like the pot calling the kettle black!
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W.,
You don’t know me so please spare us your IRRATIONAL, UNTRUE assumptions/conclusions.
I DON’T hate WP or ANYONE of ANY race. Just because you don’t like your ANTI-BW RACIST/HATER comments being challenged doesn’t mean I (or anyone else who disagrees with you) is a racist.
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Uncle Milton,
I am DEFINITELY NOT anti-White but I won’t tolerate ANTI-BW RACIST/HATERS (of ANY race) to get away with promoting ANTI-BW lies, myths, and stereotypes that trash the humanity, dignity, and femininity of BW.
I can understand why ANTI-BW RACIST/HATER trolls may not like having their racism challenged.
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It is strange that “white people” walk around acting like they are better then everybody else.
I don’t see a halo above their heads and their feet touch the ground when they walk.
So where do they get their superiority complex from?
In my opinion, you have to have more then just straight hair texture and pale skin if you are going to convince me that you are some type of super-species.
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For white men that claim to hate black women they sure do keep their heads between the legs of black women.
They are either talking about black pregnancy or black women’s private lives.
These stormfront white boys keep coming to this site everyday to harass us black people.
Totally Obsessed skinheads.
Imagine what they are like in public.
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“Wayne” and the other weirdo calling himself “uncle milton” certainly need to go back to stormfront.
The klan members that own that website normally encourage their people to attack blacks and jews in public not on the computer.
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no kidding, I’m done with this idiot. come back when your done grade 9, honey.
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Who wants to marry a white man? Nasty.
They are usually molesting children and animals why would anyone go near them?
http://whitewatch.wordpress.com/2009/06/07/dutch-pedophile-molests-child-live-and-audience-laughs/
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yeah, like michael jackson
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if hes not white I dont know what is
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I am late to this conversation, but I am wondering if black women are not the victim of slick Madison Avenue Marketing white women who do not really exist? These women on television look the way they do after lots of liposuction, silicone implants, airbrushing, clever makeup and foundation garments to make them look like flesh and blood goddesses.
I challenge everyone on this board to look at realistic depictions of white women pre-electronic, modern media. These women have noticeable body flaws. They are hippy, small-breasted, somewhat dumpy looking, but in the eyes of the men who painted and sculpted them (often their lovers) they were beautiful.
I am an average, middle-aged brunette white female. There is no way any real flesh and blood white woman could measure up to the Madison Avenue Marketing carefully packaged perpetually 20-something Barbie doll that is so omnipresent.
I was so grateful when the actress who starred in the movie “Perfect,” Jamie Leigh Curtis and showed the world what she really looked like. She could pass as one of my closest friends.
Black men chase white women for the same reason white men chase Asian girls. Oh, they use the buzz words, “softer, more feminine, more approachable, more traditional,” but they really think they are getting a woman who is easier to control and dominate.
Right after she gets her green card, her white husband finds out PDQ that, if an Asian woman wants to be a traditional Asian wife, she would marry an Asian man. It won’t take a black man long to figure out the same nonsense that irritates black women irritates white women, too.
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ya i know like how as soon as michael jackson was big the media changed him from black to white. white people couldn’t accept that a black man was so famous so they painted his skin white for the cameras.
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and when people found out that he was actually black they “killed him off.” hes not even dead i saw him a few days ago.
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I realize the premise of this thread is a negative from the start. Why so few white men marry black women…. Where does the moderator live anyway? It takes two to make a marriage so this thread should be called why so few black women and white men marry.
I also am fascinated that few people challenge the angry racists on here.
Tragic….
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Alkema:
The angry racists on this post are also known as ‘trolls’. It’s futile to engage them, and most posters won’t stoop to their level to form a reply for them to ignore.
Also, what would changing the name of the title of this post prove? It’s still just as negative, instead it implies even more subversive hate between black women and white men. And if it was a general dislike between these two groups, would it even be a problem? It would be nice to live in a colorblind world and mix all of the races willy nilly, but if two groups hate each other that much, marriage probably isn’t the first thing on the list of differences to reconcile.
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einstein was actually black too they changed his picture in every book he was in
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Geez. I can’t believe this post is still getting so much attention.
Abagond, I think you need to post a Part III!
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Erin
Thanks for the reply. I agree on most points. I just thought that the name of this forum implies that it is up to the white man to initiate marriage to a black woman. I the title itself says that. I really think literally, btw. Yet I think that it is both sides have reservations about each other. I think I might be nit picking about the title but just my take on it.
Makes sense about the trolls and not feeding them too.
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You speak for no one but yourself, apparently.
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ok this is lol worthy —
“Nothing has changed since the days of slavery and the whites that went around punching in the faces of the egyptian mummies.”
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If it takes two to make a marriage,
how come you never see a white woman proposing to a white man at the same time the white man proposes to the white woman?
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why do white people hate us so much? because of our noses and our black skin. they label our genitals like we are circus animals! they call us monkeys and apes and gorillas and then act all innocent? yet they go to websites like stormfront.com nothing has changed since white people said they built the pyramids and stole jesus from africa. I dont see any white people walking on water!!! why do they hate our NOSES SO MUCH!!!?!?!? OUR NOSES!!!!
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in summary: noses, dave duke, apes, the sphinx, white people think their god and noses
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Why so few white men marry black women….
The same reason why more black men are marrying white women…..CLASSISM(Hegemonia). The evil parent of RACISM. Black women are seen as unfortunate in Race,Gender & Class……
Kerry Washington,Eve,Venice Williams are being used as the poster children for black women who are in interracial relationships. Yet, many of us are absolutely clueless who these white men are…..But they are dating and marring the creme de la’creme of black women…..Why? White men are automatically assumed to be entitled and privileged, whether they are or whether they are not. White males are not knocking on LaKita’s door who lives in an impoversished community, getting on one knee and asking her to marry him……Hell,white males are not knocking on Hugh Hefner’s door trying to marry a Playboy Bunny…… White men believe in marry up, which is why so few marry black women, because they are taught and condition that the non-white woman is socially unacceptable and unless she have some awesome credentials behind her name to make up for her black skin, you might be a good lay, but you will not be the one he brings home to mother.
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That’s true, CyndiAnn. White women are still held as the epitome of beauty and the most worthy marriage mate for not just White men, men of Color as well.
La Reyna
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Okay, SLAVERY did happen. It happened hundreds of years ago but it still happened.
I liken slavery to the rape of the black race.
RAPE scars the victim for life and usually affects the generations of the victim to come(children, grandchildren etc.) I’m actually watching this happening right now in more than one case.
That is the way it is with slavery. It hurt. It hurt deeply. And the after math is still relevant today for those whose ancestors have went through it.
Back to rape. The children of the rapist will most likely have an easier time to get over the fact that thier father(or mother) is a rapist. And if they happen to meet the children of the rape victim they may feel bad, apologize(if they are compassionate) but ultimatly it is not their fault. Therefore they will not understand the anger and maybe hatred aimed at them. It was their father not them. And that’s true, but the children of the rape victim can’t see that. They only know that the man or woman who raped their parent inderictly made their lives a living hell. Their parent suffered from mood swings because of their rape and spits out hateful comments because they are hurt etc.
That’s how it is between the black race a nd white race. Hundreds of years ago white people wanted blacks to know that they are inferior. There is even a qoute from a slave owner (a very wise one) saying(and this is just the jist of it. Pardon me for paraphrasing) if you divide the black race now, even if slavery ended black people would be down for the long run. and that’s the truth.
I’m only twenty-one but I have seen my father being thrown into is own living room table by a white police man b/c he was black(no other explanation for it) Witnessed my great-grandmothers defeat in everything. Her favorite quote is “We can’t do anything about it.”, Seen a black girl cry b/c her dad didn’t care about her but was running around with a white woman’s children calling them his…and you know what I indirectly blame slavery. But you know what else I do not blame white people of these times.
What is done is done, but the white people on here who are spitting out racist comments then turn around and call others racist. Especially at black women…a double dare you to walk in their shoes for one day.
And I know it is wrong for everyone to be racist. But keep in mind we are all prejudice. A simple facct.
And one more thing people are people are people. Nad if people prefer dating inside their own race good for them…if they find love outside their good for them. Just make sure your foundation is Christ b/c no matter the color relationships are a rocky thing!
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I wrote that for the people who keep accusing each other of being racist.
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Cute BW/WM couple. Couldn’t help myself because they really are very cute:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2009/08/07/ST2009080701367.html?sid=ST2009080701367
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Actually, just wanted to add that in my bit of the country, BW/WM couples are really common. To the point where nobody notices them anymore.
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To: Black&German
I prefer dating non-American males period, because they have a different perspective about women of color.
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How is their perspective different?
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First,let me share a little something about myself. Ten years ago I attended an international university and I use to chuckle when I would hear international students describe me as the “American”…… Not the Black American, African American, Black chic, Welfare Queen, Hood Rat, Drama Queen….. but the American girl.
My experience with non-American males left me with the impression that race is not their issue…..Politics,corruption, poverty seemed to be a far bigger issue for them other than someone’s race.
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Yeah, over there we’re just “American”. It really is like that.
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Black&German and CyndiAnn,
Thanks for reminding us of a FACT I have repeatedly stated on BW Empowerment blogs.
BW are viewed in a MORE POSITIVE, RACE NEUTRAL manner by MOST European WM than they are by American WM.
Also, MOST European WM have a higher appreciation for the BEAUTY, HUMANITY, and FEMININITY of BW than American WM. That’s why there are more BW/WM marriages in Europe than in the U.S.
Things are slowly beginning to change in America, but hopefully, SOON, BW will be viewed in a MORE POSITIVE, RESPECTFUL way by MOST American WM (and American society/media)as they are by MOST European WM.
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Thank You.
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I’d like to say the negative comments about African American women are stereotypes.Just because you find one example which you perceive as “ghetto” does not represent the whole race of women. Does a couple of white porn stars represent all white women?Just like a couple of uneducated and loud black females doesn’t represent them all.(Michelle Obama is a good example.)Anyways, this is obvious and acceptable to anyone whose not racist.
I am a female college student who is bi-racial.I do not use slang words at all.I, like many other African American women, are not “hood rats”. I live in an exceptionally nice neighborhood,I also have a 3.6 GPA.I have been approached by white, mixed, and dark skin men.By the way,I doubt the black women who are educated would want someone with such narrow views of an entire race anyways.Have a nice day.
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I not sure if you understood my comments. I am well aware that the negative labeling,such as “Hood Rats” is a stereotype. To assume that I’m not aware of that means you are assuming that I’m ignorant. To suggest that I’m speaking for the entire black population is just down right offensive. I was speaking about my own personal experiences. Read the thread!
However, what I was arguing is how unfair it is to call any black woman a “Hood Rat, Drama Queen, Welfare Queen whether they are “loud black females” or not……Labeling affects all of us……Not to mention, those labels were not design for women who live in exceptionally nice neighborhoods with high GPAs……
Those labels were designed for black women like me….. who was less fortunate than yourself….Someone who grew up in black America(I’m multiracial)…..Someone who grew up in an historical,impoverished community and had to struggle for everything including my education. So, I donot appreciate any type of labeling no matter who it comes from or why it was created. It’s as if you are suggesting that because you are bi-racial and grew up in an exceptionally nice neighborhood it’s ok to use the term “Hood Rats” when refering to……. As you called them “uneducated loud black females”……Are you saying that’s ok?
As for the porn stars representing all white women……Not all them, but they definitely influence and set the tone for what males see as the perfect mate(freak in the bedroom&a lady in the street)….Sexual objectification is a good thing for white women…..they get rich from it…..Because they are still privileged in race and class(Hegemonia)…..White pornography is multi-trillion dollar industry…..However, those negative stereotypes affect Black females in the Adult Entertainment industry as well….. it’s as if you are suggesting that there are no black women in that industry……However, to show how negative stereotyping affects black women across the board…..Black women in the Adult Entertainment industry are considered low class and high risk for disease……They make far less money than their white colleagues because of how the black female is valued in this country(Hegemonia).
As for the comment about being approached by men(?)…….even “loud black females” get approached by all types of men. So what was your point?
Some courses in “Women Studies” would be helpful in your understanding the black female….. whether they are uneducated or educated. I wish you the best in all your endeavors.
~Unity~
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Hello to everyone who took the time to comment on this very timely topic. I’ve enjoyed reading the many perceptions of race relations in our wonderful land.
I am a 33 year old black woman who has successfully raised two black young men on my own, unwed from my teen years. They are both attending college this year (you do the math).
As for my education, I never went to college but graduated high school. I’m completely self- taught yet my Mensa IQ is 146 (real score from the real test). I am the CEO of a very profitable Real Estate company I founded 7 years ago. I am very attractive and also of the Christian faith.
I’ve written this short exposition on my background for your understanding of the following.
Many of the African American women on this blog have what I would consider a twisted view of the many thousands of white Americans and non-American men’s view of us. I’ve worked, lived and socialized alongside whites, both men and women of every age group and socioeconomic background. I have found very little inward or outward racism directed toward me. However, I have noticed many more occurrences of racism, stemming from fear, toward black males. In many of my intimate and repeated inquiries to white males and females I’ve definitely heard many common similarities of their opinions of us such as;
I think black women are the most beautiful women in the world, black women are so sexy, I think black women are more sincere and stronger than other women, I think black men treat their women like trash, I would date a black woman if I thought they were interested, I think black women like sex more than others, I always wanted to be with a black woman, I think black people harbor hatred towards whites from slavery, black skin looks so healthy- I tan because I think my white skin looks sickly, I love the full lips of black women, I think black women’s hair is the most versatile, I think black men are more dominant, I wish black women would realize that we would treat them as well or better than a black man, I’ve heard all black men are well endowed, black women are so much more expressive than others, I wish I could be as bold as black men, black women only like black men etc, etc, etc….
This shows me how little we actually know and understand about each other’s culture. To know what others think of us we must be prepared to ask difficult, direct and honest questions from logical, rational and likeminded people of other races. Also, we must be prepared to hear without judgments, the truth of the matter of the responses we may get to eventually create a stable racial harmony in America.
I have personally been approached more by white men than black men around the Atlanta area and I live in a densely white populated area in Georgia. Usually I am approached daily by men of all races, especially white men though and the reason is because I am approachable, extroverted, confident and friendly to all people.
I wanted my children to grow up with as much racial diversity as possible because I live in a place called America where black and white soldiers fight side by side to defend my country and where the people of the land take leaps to culturally evolve, and my neighbors and I can pray with freedom. Our nation, America is “ours” too and we all share in its past, present and future.
For the God believers on here of all faiths, how important is color in the human race? Does it define intelligence, drive, happiness, and depth of love, or respect, perhaps the direction of our survival or spirit? Why does yesterday dictate today? Were whites more hurt by what happened on 911? Did blacks feel no sympathy for holocaust victims? If a meteor hit America, will not all Americans be affected?
I deeply appreciate this discussion and topic, but I disagree with many of the misconceptions among black women on here, of course white men want you, are you blind? If most white men were racist, would Obama be president? We only make up 12% of the populace. Why do you think so many black men are trapped in the prison system? Hmmm, perhaps so more of us are readily available, what do we really see? There are many more whites on welfare because there are more whites in America. There are many more poor whites in “ghettos” (trailer parks) than blacks because there are more whites.
We blacks must begin to see ourselves in a more positive light.
Hate groups are just that, a group, a minuscule portion of a majority and if you do a little online research you will find just as many black hate groups as white ones. Hate is universal, it crosses color lines but I’d bet my life that there is more love among people in the world than hatred.
If only we had television news stations that reported the good news as well. With that being said I love my country, my God, my black brothers and sisters, my white brothers and sisters, my Asian, Latin, Jewish, brothers and sisters and everyone in whom I share in humanity with. There will be no color lines in Heaven.
To the black men and women, we should strive to love ourselves and help each other grow by overcoming the plights of our past. We must see the beauty in us and stop relying on others to see it because we first must realize our own worth.
I can have just about any man I desire of any race and so can you. My husband loves me and worships the ground I walk on. He is wealthy, handsome and successful and he was so happy when I said “Yes” to his marriage proposal. By the way, he is white!
Sincerely Yours,
Image of God
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Not to being racist, but I’m not really atracted to white men, not in a sexually way. I do like black men, some south east asian or latin, but no white. Most of the black females I met had the same feelings about this, and we are not racist! just preference
source:
blasian lady
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i like all women. but when i was a kid all my girl friends were not caucasian. i moved to missouri and was told id be outcast if i dated a woman of another race besides caucasian. i dont like racism because my dad always told me we’re all human and take people for who they are. if people disowned me for dating a woman of another race id just say one more idiot that still believes in archaic thoughts and move on. i dont think that its bad or wrong when i see interacial couples i understand. but people here in smalltown missouri look down on these people.
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@gary dieter: Im from Missouri too. Interesting that you were told that, but then again, Im not surprised. This state is still amongst the most separatist places in this country. Glad you’re sticking to your ideals.
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i believe matters like relationship are judged by individual perception of a term so called love. in the above context,racial or religious considerations are, some times, became pre judgement factors. so whether a black, white or blue woman date a pink guy and to what extent is nonetheless of no importance in this contemporarly world.
get wise all of you and stop discussing nonsenses
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i have gone through almost all the comment posted and only one point is missing which is colour is just a skin pigment, whats important is the inside of the person.
in africa, people have seen so much brutality of white men during colonialism.
white people are thus considered as brutal,cheaty and all other negative attributes including having small dicks.but this does not involve all white men so dont entertain your misguided judgements on colour of other human beings
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i personally looking forward to sleep with women of all races in this world, its good to taste what God has created.
we african we have no problem of having more than one women interms of mistress,wives or for one night stand.
god has given us dicks and energy enough to accomodate lots of women.
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Ummm… *cough* TMI.
Anyway, the worst part of the whole “black men are all well-endowed” fallacy is that people expect the inverse to be true; that “black women are cavernous”.
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White guy here and the reason why so few
white men marry black women is that white
women are generally much more attractive to
white men.
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Sean, I grant you that point:
Most white men find white women most attractive, on average. I think that holds true across all races. Perhaps for environmental (nurture) rather than genetic (nature) reasons, but it’s true all the same.
But that’s not the point.
The debate is: is there something inherent to the WM/BW relationship that makes — all other things (beauty, talent, intelligence, charm, socio/economic status, education, etc.) being equal or even superior — a BW a less attractive MARRIAGE partner than a WW. Despite most WM finding WW more attractive and most BW finding BM more attractive, there is still a sizeable portion of the population to whom this does not apply. Certainly large enough to suggest that an intermarriage rate of 117,000 is too low for it to be merely chance.
In other words: if a WM had the choice between an average-looking dull WW and a beautiful and talented BW, why is it that most WM would choose to MARRY the WW, regardless of whom they found more attractive?
That is the interesting question and it works the other way around as most BW aren’t interested in marrying a WM even if they found him attractive and he was otherwise the best match they could make. They just don’t want him or are even grossed out at the mere thought of it. Most BW would prefer a less-than-quality BM over a quality WM. It’s not rational, and it’s changing, but that’s the current status.
What does that say about race-relations in the US? What does that say about the “beauty premium” that BW lack? What does that say about BW/BM relationships?
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Another interesting question is:
Why is it that a woman will appear attractive to a WM until he finds out that she’s black? I’ve experienced this a few times in my life and it’s, frankly, bizarre. Is the concept of “black women are ugly” so ingrained that a WM could switch so instantaneously like that?
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“White guy here and the reason why so few
white men marry black women is that white
women are generally much more attractive to
white men.”
laromana says,
WW ARE NOT “MORE ATTRACTIVE” THAN BW SOLELY BECAUSE THEY ARE WHITE because NO ONE RACE OF WOMEN is MORE ATTRACTIVE than ANOTHER BASED SOLEY ON RACE. There are attractive and ugly women in EVERY RACE.
It is this type of IRRATIONAL, IDIOTIC, RACIST/ANTI-BW mindset that needs to be DISMISSED/DESTROYED ONCE AND FOR ALL.
Also, just becaues ONE WM has a “RACIST opinion” that WW are “more attractive than BW” doesn’t mean that ALL WM think this way.
It’s true that MOST AMERICAN WM have been conditioned via ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE to view BW as “less attractive than WW” and to either FEAR/DISCRIMINATE against relationships with BW, but this doesn’t mean ALL WM think WW are “more attractive” than BW.
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There is no conclusive evidence that the “majority” of ANY racial group NECESSARILY finds members of their own racial group “more attractive” than those outside of their racial group SOLELY based on race.
Without ANY CONCRETE,FACTUAL evidence to support it, saying that “WW are generally much more attractive to WM”(than BW) is an ILLOGICAL, SUBJECTIVE, IRRATIONAL, RACIST, ANTI-BW statement.
Factoring in the NEGATIVE effect historical ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE in America has had on how ALL men view the attractiveness of BW, also make the truthfulness of this statement questionable.
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I just wanted to make a quick comment on the “apes spread aids”. Sir I’m not sure if you’ve noticed but the interracial bug is biting everywhere. Having just come back from Russia with my pure Russian fiance I can attest to the kindness and welcoming hearts of the Russian people to me a half black women. They are a hard and strong people much like the BW of America. I loved my stay there. I do admit that I was concerned with some of the things you spoke of about public beating and things but those are the work of some extremist most likely much like yourself. Dr. martin Luther King Jr. was thought to be an extremist in his time but over time the sheet fell from those eyes of hate and I pray one day that will happen to you to Sir. May God save your soul.
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it dont matter on race as long as the companion is attractive and has a personality to match. Look at Heidi Klum and Seal,you know there are bigger sterotypes of black poeple in other countries like perhaps germany and for her to fall in love with him that had to be big in her country to acknowledge. i agree with the girl way up above who said it was on how the person looked and acted like their family and friends. but some people wont let race pass them by which makes them the ignorant people in life. you have to ignore those people sin life or you will never live have fun.
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“Look at Heidi Klum and Seal,you know there are bigger sterotypes of black poeple in other countries like perhaps germany and for her to fall in love with him that had to be big in her country to acknowledge.”
Gotta defend my country here:
Actually, their marriage has resulted in a big career boost for both of them. And the Germans can’t get enough of them. They’re such a striking couple.
You should have seen how badly they trashed Boris Becker in the German media after he cheated on his wife, Barbara. The people really liked her.
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This discussion has gone through it all – crazy comments and sensible musings.
Abagond – I like that you let it all hang out!
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I agree B&G,
The mainstream media’s attention on their marriage got them way more press and exposure than either had since the peak of their careers.
That’s a celeb couple who knows how to milk their union for their benefit in a classy way.
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There is now a part III to this post:
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I find your assumption on how we would feel about children of mixed marriages to be ridiculous.they would still be our children.but I find blacks to be much harsher on these children.the children endure taunts and racial ridicule from blacks far more than whites. The word mullato is hispanic also the word quadroon meaning 1/4 black and octdroon meaning 1/8 black describe heritage and yes the women where beautiful.
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I disagree.
On one level you might be right: If you strapped a taunt-o-meter to the chest of every half-black and half-white child in America, then it might in fact count more black taunts than white taunts.
BUT YET most of these children will grow up to see themselves as black. Why in the world is that?
You are fooling yourself about how wonderfully accepting white people are.
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How about that we (white men) just don’t find most black women attractive. Culturaly polar opposites too, most not, all mind you.
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It’s true that MOST AMERICAN WM have been conditioned via ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE to “find BW unattractive” and to either FEAR/DISCRIMINATE against relationships with them, but this doesn’t mean ALL WM think BW are “unattractive” or “cultural polar opposites”.
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http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1009/28175.html
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“Rival campaigns, meanwhile, were unsure of what to make of it. A senior aide to one rival said they tested de Blasio’s mailings in a focus group and left hoping that voters would find the appeal ‘crass.'”
An image of his family, who will be his support network if he wins, should be perceived as ‘crass,’ ONLY because his wife is Black and he has half-black (BEAUTIFUL -by the way) children. * sigh *
I think we’ve discussed this, ad nauseum.
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d.allen says
“I find your assumption on how we would feel about children of mixed marriages to be ridiculous.they would still be our children.but I find blacks to be much harsher on these children.the children endure taunts and racial ridicule from blacks far more than whites.”
I have six nieces and nephews (from 4 different couples) with whom I spend a great amount of time. I have never heard anyone (Black or White) say anything off-handed about any of them. One of the boys garners a lot of attention because of his blonde, “untamed” hair but the comments have been compliments about how “cool” his hair is. It’s his (accidental) signature look (he’s only 2).
Maybe it’s the social circles in which we live and move, but if anything, I’ve noticed that Black children their age fawn over them, almost covet their uniqueness… which I find kind of sickening because it reveals what we always discuss here… they’re (blacks) made to feel that something about them is wrong, bad, ugly. They feel that these kids are somehow better because they’re bi-racial.
I tire of hearing how bi-racial children will be ridiculed or suffer somehow because of their mixed heritage. I’ve witnessed nothing of the sort. In fact, my nieces have been the catalyst for bonding between the two sides of their families. And, we have heard witnessed how many men are attracted to bi-racial women. For some, they are the ‘pick of the litter.’ So, where’s all the disdain?
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Co-sign both comments ndependent.
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To Mike
I’m BLACK and i’m a 17 year old female. I don’t discriminate when it comes to what race I date,(i wish no one was classified by the color of their skin but just as humans) but whatever.
My point is that I agree with EVERYTHING that you have said. I was raised by black parents and I was taught not to date a man who wears baggy jeans and has pierced ears and hasn’t finished high school and you know what most black men fall into this category. I was never brain washed and I can see that a lot of black people bring racism on themselves. a lot of them dress like thugs and expect to be treated like diplomats.
Only 35% of black high school graduates end up graduating College. There are more black men in jail than in school! I hate when blacks won’t admit when they’re wrong it’s sad and disgusting. If you got a chance to some to my school you would see that blacks stick to themselves rather than socializing with anyone else and they bring fear into other races because we are so damn aggressive! No one wants to hang around some grumpy ass who calls himself a ”nigga” and thinks it’s cool.
If anyone called me that i’d be furious because our forefathers fought so hard for the abolition of slavery and segregation so we could be seen as intellects not ignorant angry fools! Which is exactly what the majority of blacks have made us seem like.
None of the men want to be lawyers everybody is a fucking rapper or athlete. FYI those aren’t real careers! So pull up your damn pants learn to speak proper english so you can be socially acceptable and stop giving your children ridiculous names like bonquisha and Velisha. Stereotypes are created when the majority succumb to those simple minded behaviors. For example all Chinese people are good at math well that’s because the majority of them are. Blacks are too paranoid I know racism exists but the only way to get rid of it is to be the bigger person and work hard and be #1 so even when the world is fighting against you, you’ll know that you’re the best look at Barack Obama he’s the President of the United States do you think if he was some thug rapper they would have made him president because the excuse was he’s black and America doesn’t want a black man to succeed. Most blacks wanted Hilary Clinton the Whites were the ones who made Barack win so eat that!
I ❤ WHITE MEN BLACK MEN PURPLE MEN WHATEVER COLOR IT DOESN'T MATTER! I'm tired of people walking on thin ice with black people if you're wrong you're wrong!
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White men want white offspring and that is a fact. Why is this such a difficult issue?
It is not a matter of personal like or dislike, it is a matter racial preference. If I was black, I would prefer black offspring.
Asians and hispanics don’t mix and they are proud of their race so why are we singling out whites?
Stop focusing on the notion that color is a desired trait and focus on what you prefer personally. If that means mixing to change your color then look for a mate that matches your requirements without passing on bad genes to your offspring.
Frankly, you should mate for intelligence, and athleticism, with a partner who is genetically capable of matching your own genetic characteristics.
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– Ok I just had to respond to what Robert Lindsay said as an example:
“Y’all are scary and angry as Hell even on the threads before I even jumped in.
Your endless comments about our small dicks are particularly threatening and avoidance-inducing.
What racist stereotypes? That Black women are aggressive? Why is that a racist stereotype? Isn’t it true that on average and as a group, they are more aggressive? Why is that even debatable?
It’s also been my experience that too many of them were cynical, greedy, money-hungry, using and seemed to want to drain every nickel out of my wallet. Way worse than even White gold-diggers. If that’s my experience, why is that racist or stereotypical? My experience is my experience, right?”
– Ok look I’m sure everyone has seen an angry black woman whether on tv, in a movie, or observed it in real life, but you can’t just assume that all black women are like that; that’s a fallacy. Especially not based off of several experiences.
If you seem to be having bad experiences with BW or women in general then that’s your fault; and that goes for men to. Just like its Robert Lindsay’s fault that he keeps finding himself to be with gold-digging or mean aggressive women who happen to be black.
Its his fault that he hasn’t learned how to avoid those types of women, not just BW, but women like that in general, sense he’s had so much experience. Please! You’d think he be smart enough not to fall for the same mistakes again and actually look for the good qualities in women that cancel them out as a gold-digger or an aggressive woman. Maybe then Robert would have found a decent BW or any decent woman for that matter.
So people, don’t just make up your minds after a couple of experiences. That’s life, you make mistakes, you learn from them so you prevent from repeating the. I mean obviously if something isn’t working for you, then either change it or fix it, but don’t go jumping to conclusions.
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Hi Abagond
Could I have a copy of Lynette’s dissertation pls, am sure it would make for very interesting reading. She’s a great blogger and I’d love to read her thesis 🙂
Hope you don’t mind Lynette 🙂
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ok im an 18yr old black woman who is seen as an oreo because im not loud and do not use ebonics and i am proper. people consider me a sellout and say im not black enough and im not allowed to be black.i havent had any good experiances with black people and that led me to only hanging with whites and due to lack of black male attention my preference for them is gone. this is something that i have tried to fight but it just wont go away i prefer to date men of other races,i have dated white and mexican but i have a thing for asians but they are the ones who wont date black women, i would really like someone to explain that.
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ari91,
You don’t have to feel bad about not having a preference for BM, especially when they’ve ignored you. Just keep dating quality NON-BM who you like and who also like (and don’t discriminate against)you.
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Ari-
Don’t feel bad about your preferences! It’s totally ok. As for Asian guys, just remember that not ALL guys of ANY race suscribe to the same ideals. I live in backwoods texas and I’ve personally seen a couple of BW/AM couples walking hand in hand around here. If it can happen in this sad excuse for a modern city, it can happen anywhere.
(: Chin up!
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@Ari91:
Why don’t you ask an Asian male that you like why they don’t date Black women? I’ve seen Asian males and Black women couples in my neck of the woods and in Jamaica where my parents are from.
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To Stephanie your comment is wrong it is another fallacy or myth that they’re are more BM in jail than in school…please look up the REAL data.
To Mike I have an issue with you calling Black Women –Black Girls this how i know (amongst other things you said) that your problem is deep.
I know this is very difficult to do but if most White people can stop thinking THEY ARE BETTER THAN… this coud be a start!
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I have heard a lot of WW tell me and read on this blog that when they gain weight BM approach them more… In my humble opinion it has nothing to do with attraction but more to do with them ready to ponce because they think you are easy to sleep with ..that’s it!
I’m going to generalize a bit:
WM are more pickier than BM (because they can be)
BM are not very picky (about who they sleep with as long as they are getting some) it can be white, fat, black, mexican etc.
A caveat to this is wealthy BM most of them are discerning.
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The comment on BM –is not to feed into the “over-sexed”stereotype it explains more of their openness to date and bed those out their race.
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There are a lot of devils on this website.
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The great actor Robert Deniro has no problem with marrying a black woman.
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I agree with White Guy….Good Intelligent Post>
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Ari91, sorry to hear your experience. We share the same experiences with black guys (somewhat).
Trust me, Asian guys do like black women. Me ex-boyfriend was Asian and we were in a very serious relationship. He told me that some are attracted but are too shy to approach. Since him, other Asian guys have approached.
Don’t assume that about any race of men.
Good luck!
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jade says:
“I’m going to generalize a bit:
WM are more pickier than BM (because they can be)
BM are not very picky (about who they sleep with as long as they are getting some) it can be white, fat, black, mexican etc.
A caveat to this is wealthy BM most of them are discerning.”
That’s a half truth!
As a black guy, I date all races of women! Not so much that I’m not very picky. It’s because I see beautiful women in all races and I want a piece of every pie! lol!
Truth is Black women are on the top of my list and white women are at the bottom! Still variety is the spice of life! 😉
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I have to disagree with the author in many respects. I happen to be a black female who is dating a white male. Here is the true issue. I have known him since I was at least 11 and have liked him since I was 15. Not dating him was not due to there being no common interest, the number of other datable males or our families.
The truth of the matter is that in the made very clear early on by black males that the white man is the reason for all of his troubles. Black women being the community minded people we are choose to back our men by not dating the one race they blame for their problems. However, these same black men choose to date white women and blame the same black women who support them.
People need to grow up and realize that color does not make the person. I know black people who are racist against their own just as there are white people who are the same way. If you find someone you have an interest in get to know them. The only person you are cheating is yourself.
To make the author correct black women would have to fall into the same mind set as the black man and blame the white man for their own choices.
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This is sad, the author paints with broad strokes.
Not only that but there seems to be a lot of generalizations (bordering on racism) and stereotyping going on in this thread against many groups; black women, black men and white men in particular.
as for ndependent:
I disagree, I know a couple (Black man and white woman) who have biracial kids and they were literally shunned at their school (parents told kids not to hang out with them).
It’s pathetic and petty but it was a reality, I felt so bad for them and their kids.
Think about that: Things you enjoyed as a kid like going to birthday parties and holiday parties – didn’t happen for the most part.
I’ll just finish by saying: People should really make it clear that they’re discussing a large percentage and not all of one group.
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i think we actually need a post on why so few black women marry white men. That would be a good post.
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Now from reading all these posts I agree with some and I disagree with some of you, haha I am a black girl and I can speak for mostly my class which is upper class I’ve never lived in the ghetto, but I’ve had ghetto friends who actually dated white guys…but those girls ruined how white guys in my school acted towards me, because they expected me to act ghetto, obnoxious, stupid, etc. and hit them for stupid things, when I am the exact opposite. I love white guys, but I also like other races. Also It is more likely for a middle class/upper class black girl to like white guys, only because she wants to marry someone who will have money like her. I’m not against black guys. It’s just that I’ve had soooo many problems with them in the past, and the majority of black guys are lazy!! I don’t know why, I mean even my brother is, and he loves white girls. I’ve came across many “racist thinking” white guys and I changed their opinion and thoughts of black girls, not by having sex them, but just talking to them on their level. I have a white bf now and I don’t see the problem of black girls dating outside their race, especially white guys. I think it’s natural, for a guy no matter what color to like a girl no matter what color. In my humble opinion I think the reason why the white guy/black girl marriage is so low, is because most black people live in black areas. In black areas the whites are subjected to themselves and so with the blacks, but if the blacks and whites were living in the same area, non-ghetto, upper class or middle class. There would be a great amount of interracial marriage, because of the thrill and excitement of going with a different is amusing to all eyes. Not just the black and white eyes. It shows a sense of acceptance in the two main races in America. I’m not trying to start anything, I just wanted to state my opinion since I am a upper class. 🙂 Yes I may have a little white in me, but I am more black than white, only because all of my grandfathers love white women, and when it came to my mom she refused to date a white man and went with a black man. She totally accepts me dating white guys, only because of the emotional problems I was dealing with, with the black guys. I like men who are on my level, who go to college, who live in a fancy house, and who wants to work. Oh and especially who wants a family! I’ve only met one black guy who exceeded these qualities, but he was African??? How funny is that haha. And yes I’ve met plenty of ghetto white boys who tried to treat me like the black guys do, and trust me it didn’t work. No girl wants to be with a guy who constantly degrades you, no matter what color you are!! I’ve proven my fellow white friends that I don’t fit the stereotype of a black girl, not because I don’t want to be “black” it’s more because I want to have a career, and a life, of non-drama!! 🙂
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( The true reason white men don’t date black women is because white men are racist.
White men don’t want black children! HELLO!
That should show you that white men have hatred for black women and don’t even view us as human beings.
Because even when a white man has a child with a black woman the child is seen as “other” instead of being seen as a human being by their own white father.
White men have no respect for their own flesh and blood when it comes from a black womb.
And that is coming from the white man NOT black women.
White men chose to attack and spew hatred on black women first!)
First of all I would like to state that that is not the reason!!! WTH!!! I live in a 99.9% white neighborhood in Wisconsin, and out of all the white guys I met here, they want to date outside of their race, but it’s the contemplation of getting an educated black female to a ghetto black female. For example before I moved here, there were only two black girls whom were from Chicago, and they placed a racist stereotyped that all black girls are ghetto and ignorant acting, so when I moved here I was stereotyped to be just like them. Now after a year the white guys are used to me, and I’ve had plenty of opinions stated to me saying why they won’t marry a black girl…one of my good friends stated, ” It’s not the black girl I am worried about dating, it’s a girls’ family and how a girl was raised, if we can’t go nowhere without trouble, then I don’t want to be with a girl like that.”
Another one of my friends stated, ” I love black girls, I want black kids, but I just want a pretty intelligent black girl who is not ghetto.”
Should I state more??
Now I don’t think my friends would say this to make me feel better, I think they’re telling the truth 🙂
So white guys do want babies by black girls, and want to marry black girls, it’s just the matter of picking the right mate, and they do not hate black women.
And what your talking about, was from slavery days haha, I already learned that, you should know that too. You can’t depict what the past white guys thought, to what white guys think now. 😡 It’s not true!!!
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“I’ve had soooo many problems with them in the past, and the majority of black guys are lazy!! ”
I don’t know all that…
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just 4 the record, i don’t think all white men are evil, i would never generalize and say all white men are evil. most of my experiences with white males have been alright. But I do think there is a point to be made. The white and black american cultures have been created in opposition to one another. Therefore, it is very difficult to be a white male be problack that is the point, thus its hard for many white males to be serious with black females, that’s my take.
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Chelsey,
Like you, I’ve grown up in predominantly White areas where most of the men around me were White and experienced a lot of rejection from them in relationships solely because I was Black even though I don’t fit ANY ANTI-BW STEREOTYPES.
I understand your point of view but feel that when MOST American WM/NON-BM (regardless of class) base their ideas of BW on LIES, MYTHS, and STEREOTYPES instead of approaching BW as INDIVIDUALS, they are behaving in a racist manner.
If MOST American WM/NON-BM treated ALL NON-WW this way then I might draw a different conclusion but, in my experience, BW are the ONLY NON-WW who have NEGATIVE ANTI-BW STEREOTYPES (“ghetto, loud, ignorant, unfeminine, etc.) projected on them BEFORE these men have even met/gotten to know them.
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Chelsey Said:
“I’ve had soooo many problems with them in the past, and the majority of black guys are lazy!! ”
Says you, Woman! Typical!
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I read your post and to be honest, I never understood why this is such a big deal to so many people. I’m a black girl, I was born and raised around almost ONLY white people, aside from my family. I relate more to white guys than other races of men, BUT I just don’t want to date them. I’ve met some really nice, and even cute/handsome white guys. They usually start out just staring at me trying to figure me out & then (usually after they hear me talk…) they come over or try to start a conversation. The thing about white guys is that I don’t think most black women trust them at all. I DON’T. Its kind of from the history, but more because EVERYONE always says no white man would want a black woman for anything more than sex, so thats always in the back of my mind.
After that, I feel like I’m one of the lucky black women whose been exposed to the world and people. i come from a good family, I love my history and I have love and pride in being an African American and I love black people. I would feel WEIRD ending up with any white guy because of that. I’m not from the ghetto so I wouldn’t think of dating a ghetto white guy, then most of the rest have NO idea of anything that has to do with black people or our culture. That would be too awkward to me. However, I think my #1 reason is just that I don’t want a mixed family. i don’t want mixed kids or a white husband AT ALL! That might sound weird & pretty racist, but I couldn’t do that. Light features run in my family, blue/green eyes, blonde & even red hair! If I had a kid with a white guy I would be weirded out if it looked white. I want black kids. Dark skin, black features, I want them to know and have pride in where we come from & their roots, I want them to be raised well and nice by 2 black parents because people act like thats impossible (I know its not, I have 2 black parents!).
Thats my dream. If white men, as you say, don’t marry black women, I could care less. I’m a 20 y/o black girl, in college, I come from a family of successful people, I’m slightly spoiled (I dont like to admit that *bites lip & smiles*) but I’ve got a pretty good head on my shoulders, White men are not my problem – I think finding the right BLACK guy is going to require a lot of work! lol
Plus, most of the black women i know now aren’t really interested in white men. I think the 2 of us don’t have more relationships because we just don’t seek each other out as much. Plain & simple.
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Its kind of from the history, but more because EVERYONE always says no white man would want a black woman for anything more than sex, so thats always in the back of my mind.
As opposed to guys in general who, when they meet a woman in a bar or other social environment for the first time, immediately start thinking about relationships? 🙂
Rebecca, sex is the number one thing on most men’s minds when they “come over or try to start a conversation” and I’m surprised you think this a black/white issue.
Yeah, I agree that black women have to be more careful around white guys due to racism and, were I a black woman, I certainly wouldn’t be dating a white guy unless I got to know him pretty well.
But to condemn white men for thinking about sex – or even thinking ONLY about sex – when they approach a woman…?
I highly doubt that there’s a guy posting here, no matter how well married, no matter how in love, who approached his current mate for the first time thinking “Gee, I wonder if she’s interested in a relationship?”
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laromana and Rebecca Monae
Thank you I agree with both of you, if WW were treated just like BW then I would also have a different conclusion. Just that’s the conclusion i’ve grown up having learned from my mom and dad whom are black 🙂
and Rebecca I also agree with you, not to be contradicting, but just because we’ve lived in white areas don’t mean we have to like white guys…(you’re correct). I was just stating how it’s a little obvious that BW who live in all white areas tend to look towards white guys, if there are no black guys around. I’ve met maybe two black guys whom are great candidates for me and who don’t fit the stereotypical black male. So you’re right it all matters on searching for that right male. I’ve also made contemplations on having a baby by a white guy vs a black guy, and me also my baby would come white looking with a white guy, and with a black guy it would come out light-skinned :)but I’m not against blacks in any way, mainly because I am black and I am also proud of my race 🙂 And you go girl about college 🙂
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Thaddeus said:
“I highly doubt that there’s a guy posting here, no matter how well married, no matter how in love, who approached his current mate for the first time thinking “Gee, I wonder if she’s interested in a relationship?”
LOL!
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Thaddeus:
If you read part III you will see why black women are wise to suspect white men more than black men:
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It’s imperative that BW know that, like ALL WOMEN of ANY RACE, they have the option to love, date, and marry ANY QUALITY man of ANY RACE who treats her with dignity and respect.
Also, like like ALL WOMEN of ANY RACE, BW do not owe ANY man loyalty solely on the basis of RACE, especially if that man doesn’t respect her HUMANITY, DIGNITY, and FEMININITY.
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I read part III. In short, it’s because of so many white guys who are a**holes in their approach.
Well, blow them off because of that, no doubt! But to say that you’re worried that a guy’s approaching you because he has sex on his mind (and probably only sex)… Well, yeah. So?
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BW are INDIVIDUALS and don’t ALL THINK ALIKE when it comes to interracial relationships. That’s why GENERALIZATIONS about BW and their feelings about interracial relationships tend to be misleading/false.
SOME BW are interested in dating and/or marrying WM/NON-BW and SOME BW are not.
SOME BW are ONLY interested in dating and/or marrying BM and SOME BW are not.
SOME BW are ONLY interested in dating and/or marrying WM/NON-BM and SOME BW are not.
SOME BW are interested in dating and/or marrying ANY MAN of ANY RACE and SOME BW are not.
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Those who agree with white people most of the time and do it well get their books published and get to talk on television. I call them Rented Negroes. Amy Holmes, as beautiful as she is, is one. So is John McWhorter, even though I like some of his books.
So because a black person that is successful then you say they are “Rented Negroes”?
You are the reason why you are not successful. Success does NOT equal “agree with white people”
You should be ashamed.
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I’m Black:
You can be successful without kissing up to white opinion. Nothing wrong at all in being successful. Most of us try our best to be.
What Rented Negroes do, though, is become successful BY MEANS OF kissing up to white opinion. They are sell-outs. That is what I object to.
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You know what concerns me. Some white man keeps saying “I would date a black woman, If she wasn’t ghetto”Now why would a black woman want to be involved with a man who thinks like this? There are “ghetto acting” black woman and there are other types of black women. I mean, before you would marry any woman, you would take the time to get to know her. Any intelligent man would give a person a chance to show their real personality and it takes time to figure out who a person really is. You can’t just look at a person and assume what type of person they are. It’s incredible that people who say they are not racist but continue to say racist comments. If white people were so perfect why is the divorce rate among whites so high. Marriage is difficult and I am sure that if any person is unhappy in a marriage they get angry, they say things they regret, and I am sure there are white women who do this, just like black women. If any thing, black women would be more likely, not white men, to be concerned with the attitudes of white men given their history of racism in this country. But yet there are black woman who would give a white man a chance to show who he really is by SPENDING TIME with them. Personally I have spent time with quite a few white men and I have met some good ones and I have met some real jerks. But I don’t make assumptions about all people based on racist stereotypes. It is amazing to me. One minute you say “I am not a racist. I would date a black woman” and then say ” but I wouldn’t because they are all ghetto” Isn’t that a racist comment? No one wants to be with someone who is that narrow minded. So If there are some white men who think like this, understand, black woman are in no hurry to be with someone who is like this. We want to be with someone who is humble enough to realize that people don’t always fit into the little box that they want to put them in. Humility is important.
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I mean all I have to say is that people can be really sad. It is like people seem to hold black people to some higher standard. If a black person makes mistakes, people go ” I told you all black people are like this” but when white people make mistakes people go ” Well, none of us are perfect”. Black woman are human. Not perfect people. They suffer from more humiliation, poverty, abuse, racism, and sexism than any group of people yet people expect them be perfect. As Karyn White says ” I’m not your superwoman”. We are human. Yet people make racist comments to take away from our humanity yet insist they have good intentions. A man who has good intentions would take the time to get to know people. The people who are good to you, you keep them in your life, and the people who are bad to you, you leave them alone. It’s that simple. Race has nothing to do with it.
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The reason why people hold on to their racist assumptions is because they are too cowardly to take a chance on people. To talk to them because it is too easy for them to make assumptions about them. Maybe it is a defense mechanism, I am not sure. But people should stop being cowards. Stop hiding behind your little computers making all of these offensive comments and take the time to reach out to people who appear different from you. You can’t just get to know people on the computer. People say ” well I liked black people but after reading their comments on the internet, I am not sure” Well there are many blacks who feel the same way. I can’t tell you how many racist comments that came from white people that I have read on the internet. So yes I think there should be some caution. There are alot of bad people out there. But you can’t summarize a whole race of people based on the comments of a few people. Some people are total( And I mean total jerks), yet there are good people in every race.So stop being cowardly and show other people some love. It will do you and the person you are showing some love to a whole lot of difference. If any thing we should try to use our computers to reach out to one another and have constructive dialogue. To get rid of the ignorance, not make it worse. Think about it.
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And another thing, be weary of what people say. Some of these people are making comments to keep stuff up.
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Jeri sez:
And slavery days was about rape and kidnapping we are talking about marriage and relationships two different things.
We’ve been through this on another thread. Suffice it to say that I’m currently reading every serious study of black/white sexual relations that I can get my hands on(and there are very few – in the U.S. this topic runs mostly on myth and politics and not solid information), as well as eyewitness experiences, and I feel very safe in saying that no, rape and kidnapping were not the center of black and white sexual relations in slavery days. Neither was love and “mutual respect” certainly didn’t play into it.
Interracial rape is the U.S.’ greatest bugaboo and there is little proof that it happens – or has ever happened -anywhere as near as often as Americans, black or white, feel that it has. Some very odd presumptionms regarding race and sex are built into the rape myth. Rather than get into a huge debate about this again, however, I think that I’m going to marshall what initial evidence I have and do a write up on my blog. So if you have the urge to flame me, please wait to do it over there, or go over to the “White men and black women in slavery days” thread and do it there.
And just to deal with the most common knee-jerk reaction, no my theory does not “pretty up” slavery or blame the woman. If anything, it more solidly condemns white people by incorporating what we know about evil and how it works (thank you Hanna Arendt!) and what we know about sex and how it works into the history of slavery. At least look at what’s actually being said before flying off the handle.
Now, Jeri also says:
The reason white men don’t marry black women is because they don’t want their children to be black, YES that is true.
Now THIS is very, very true and is, I suspect, far more at the root of the matter than rape. Places which allowed interracial conjugality and, in fact, practiced it quite a bit don’t have the rape myth: there, the betrayal myth comes to the fore much more strongly. So why would two countries, both which practice brutal versions of black chattel slavery, generate two separate myths about black/white sexual relations? Black women didn’t have any more power in Brazil than, say, the U.S. Rape was as common in the one as the other.
I would suggest that it has to do with legal codes and cultural habits not regarding rape, but regarding concubinage and the raising of the children of such unions. By and large, mulato children seemed to be much more incorporated into the dominant social system in Brazil than in the States.
Like I said, I’ve been pondering this for a few weeks now while reading White, Genovese and every book on miscegenation I can get my hands on. When I’ve let it sit in my brain a bit, I’m going to write it up and we’ll see what we see.
(BtW, something which might not be obvious to folks: “myth” is not a synonym of life. In anthropology, it’s a story a people tell because they feel a need to independent of the facts. The facts might be in accordance, partially in accordance, or completely at odds with the myth. Many times, the facts simply aren’t known. Myths aren’t lies, however, because they express what a people FEELS to be true on a very deep level.)
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Thaddeus
You said that I made a comment that white men weren’t with black woman because they don’t want black children?
WHEN DID I SAY THIS? I think you are confusing me with someone else. I think I asked the question if white men wanted children of a different color. I asked the question I didn’t claim anything. You have been reading so many comments you are mixing them up.
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As a black woman, I think that during this time when black women are seen as the most unattractive women on planet earth, I think that black women should see this as a possible blessing. It gives black women a break in which they have time to heal, time to continue their education, time to become the women they were created to be.
If they are rejected by a white man or any other man, they should breathe a sigh of relief, and focus on their goals. When they become the women, the queens they were meant to be, relationships and everything else will fall into place.
My sisters, don’t wait to exhale. Exhale now, and move toward your goals.
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white men haven’t been brainwashed by jews to accept bestiality and misogyny as “normal” or desired.
jews have worked on white women for 40 years to breed down and have mongrels that look nothing like them.
every monkey has his own branch. you stay on yours, Ill stay on mine.
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BW are not to blame for the MANY ANTI-BW LIES, MYTHS, and STEREOTYPES (BW are ugly, BW are at the bottom of the totem pole, BW are not worthy of marriage, BW are “ghetto”,etc.) directed at them byAmerican media/culture. MANY BW have demonstrated (through their impressive achievements in many fields) that they are NOTHING like the NEGATIVE ANTI-BW images American media/culture loves to promote of them. Like women of ANY RACE, BW DESERVE to have their HUMANITY, DIGNITY, and FEMININITY respected.
Based on the profound level of ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE that STILL exists in 21st century American society, it’s clear that BW aren’t the ones who NEED to CONSTANTLY “better” themselves in order to be “more acceptable” to EVERYONE ELSE. Instead, ANTI-BW RACIST/HATERS are the ones who NEED to IMPROVE/CHANGE their HATEFUL/RACIST attitudes towards BW.
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Trash sez:
every monkey has his own branch. you stay on yours, Ill stay on mine.
Let’s just staple gun your feet there to make sure, shall we?
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where i grew up it was and still is very rare to see a black or dark man with a white or light woman but very common to see a black or dark women with a white or light man.
I guess this is partially due to the ‘precious’ white woman stereotype and the opposite stereotype of promiscuous over sexed black woman.
oh and i’m sure the old colonial stereotype of ‘white man can do whatever he wants, have sex with whoever he wants’ but women of any race and black men were not allowed that liberty because it would threaten dominance of white men.
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Hello to all. I am a white guy and I have followed this and the first post by aba. I stumbled on it by following youtube links and googling after I got curious. These post seem to eventually come to some good old white bashing because of some idiot remark from a skinhead white moron. Let me say I am from the deep south where racisim is alive and kickin. Let there be no mistakes about what I mean, here it goes both ways. whites and blacks are both keeping it going. So I want to offer this, I wont say I will date a black girl because I find that insulting to black ladies. I will date a women reguardless of color. I dont see color as a factor. I look at shape first. It’s a matter of genetics for all animals to seek the best material for there offspring. If your really nice looking but not so bright I wont date you. I’ll date a less pretty women over a prettier one if she is smart. Also if I have kids, I wouldnt care if they are green I would kill to protect them, so not wanting black children is something I cant get my mind around. If they’re my child, you will respect them! In the intrest of not taking up to much space I’ll just say, I’m open to questions and you will get an honest answer without the chump insults.
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Ok, first question.
You wrote “green”. Also if I have kids, I wouldnt care if they are green I would kill to protect them Why green? There’s no way you’ll have green children. However, you might have black kids if you have them with a black woman. So why didn’t you write “black”?
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Byron says:
Let there be no mistakes about what I mean, here it goes both ways. whites and blacks are both keeping it going.
I wrote about this recently on my blog. I’d be pleased to get your ideas on it, Byron, even if I disagree with your BS about animals and genetics. 😉
http://omangueblog.blogspot.com/2009/12/black-women-and-white-men.html
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ok, first to your question mira. I wrote black first but then as I read over it, it sounded like I was being …… well to specific. I say this because I dont mean if they were black. I mean if they are of ANY race, so I used a non specific color. Sorry if I should have said black, it was implied.
Thaddeus, thanks for the invite. I’d be happy to join you. Sorry we disagree on the basics of attraction. If I may ask, what do you believe causes you to find someone attractive? I think the more we understand ourselves and admit our faults, we can then start to repair them by changing the way we see eachother. It’s not supposed to be about these racist white ppl or those racist black ppl! It’s about YOU!
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Byran asks:
If I may ask, what do you believe causes you to find someone attractive?
Aside from some very, very basic commonalities (i.e. people all across the world seem to find symetry attractive), I’d say culture far outwieghs genetics on this point and I’d say that’s easily proven by the historical record.
Even in the last hundred years in the U.S., beauty standards have drastically changed. If it were biology programming this, we’d expect to see the same sort of beauty codes the world over. That’s only begun to happen, however, with the advent of mass, globalized media.
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Also an interesting topic but I digress. I tried to post to your thread but I have no google or other accts to use for my name. Tell Michelle to do what makes her happy. If she’s happy it will help make her children happy and to start her own legacy. She sounds like a wonderful woman. I wish her the best.
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one thing is reaeeeeeaaaally bugging me about this thread. One thing. Its that people still believe white men have a “colonial” complex in their minds that makes them think black women are sex slaves. Also, it disturbs me to hear some people imply that when they see a white man, they think of the “colonial” rapist who raped their kin in the past, which draws them not to consider white men as partners.
This seems rediculous to me. So, every time i see a chinese person, should i run and hide, in fear they might pillage me, like the mongols? Every time i see a middle eastener, i should give them a hateful stare, cuz theyre probly a terrorist? How insane. Its preconcieved judgement based apon ones race…wait, what is that called…? oh, racism!!!!
also, i love how people might assume that “my great grandad was a raping, hanging machine” that he owned slaves, so, logically, i am the same way. ummmmmm……my parents came hear in1944, in fear they would be killed by nazis. So, throw that assumption out the window. The statement itself if rediculous, because even if ones history led back to a grand parent or great grandparent owning a slave, does that mean the relative today possesses some sort of thirst for racial violence, or lust for raping black women? No. Im not saying “get over it[slavery]” as some of you might assume im implying. Im not saying that at all. Im just saying STOP linking me, as a white american male, to some fictional, slave owning grand father, that doesnt exist in my family line. STOP, PLEASE!
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@ confused.
I agree with you that its unfair to judge someone by their ancestors.
prepare for people to get angry over your comments.. there seems to be a few people who frequent this blog who think all white people are evil. *sigh*
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bryan51672
There’s nothing wrong in being specific. Using non human colours often sounds like a “purple people” argument, which implies you don’t seriously think about race. If you really decide to marry and have children with a black (or non-white woman), chances are that she will take race much more seriously.
Thaddeus Blanchette
I am another person who can’t post comments over at your website (I managed to do it with one post, but it’s not working anymore). Is there another way to contact you?
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confused,
Where are you getting the idea that most of the commenters on this post are focused on the concept that white men have a “colonial” complex in their minds that makes them think black women are sex slaves”?
Most of the commenters on this thread are discussing reasons (derived from personal life experiences or that of others) why so few WM marry BW. A major theme that is mentioned in this post is the prevalence of ANTI-BW RACISM (eg.(BW are ugly, BW are at the bottom of the totem pole, BW are not worthy of marriage, BW are “ghetto”,etc.) that is CONTINUALLY promoted in American media/culture how this leads MANY WM NOT to consider BW for SERIOUS DATING and/or MARRIAGE.
Although this may be an uncomfortable topic for SOME WM to discuss, abagond provides a forum where HONEST dialogue can take place that could lead to a change in the way we think about certain it.
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I love black women. That hot chick from CSI Miami is hot. Their skin is like butter. Very hot. And I kinda like the way they are not afraid of sex.
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Confused:
Laromana makes an excellent point. Instead of putting words in our mouth, quote one of us and go after that. This thread has 565 comments, so there should be plenty of material.
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I was at chucky cheese yesterday and there were at least 3 fine black women there. The one with dreads is lucky that we’re both married or I would have been all over that like white on rice on snow on Styrofoam on a paper plate. Yeah, her husband had the same name as me too.
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I’m white,
whatever. Why is it about “being all over that”.
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Not everyone on this post are saying that all White men are the devil. We are just giving out observations of why so few White men marry Black women and to tell you the truth most of it stems from racist ideology. I just wish some people would just admit that this topic makes them feel uncomfortable instead of skimming this post and coming up with a generalized assumptions. If you don’t like it skip it.
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I second that Islandgirl.
Our skin is like butter and we’re not afraid of sex. Yep, must be a black woman thing alright. :smdh:
Certain things are best taken with a pinch of salt.
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I’m white said:
“I love black women. That hot chick from CSI Miami is hot. Their skin is like butter. Very hot. And I kinda like the way they are not afraid of sex.”
So wait, what does the skin of white women feel like? Rubber?
Also: since when were white women afraid of sex or more afraid than black women? And how do you know this?
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I’m white:
Are you married to a black woman or do you just secretly lust after them at Chuck E. Cheese’s?
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@ Im white
Your comment about black women not being afraid of sex is offensive. If you truly respected black women you would not refer to us as loose (Jezebel stereotype) women.
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“I’m white” is such a troll. S/he is probably just writing that stuff to get a rise out of people. Ignore.
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Are you married to a black woman or do you just secretly lust after them at Chuck E. Cheese’s?
ROFLMAO! He probably lusts after them at Chuckie Cheese, LOL! Is that a real place? If so that’s a hilarious name! I got a good belly laugh out of that one. As for ‘I’m white’, he sounds like one of those guys who lives in his mother’s basement watching porn all day with a jar of vaseline on hand, LOL!
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Chuck E. Cheese’s is a place where kids scream and eat pizza and play games:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_E._Cheese%27s
http://www.chuckecheese.com/the-experience/
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Oh great, he goes to a kid’s restaurant to ogle and secretly lust after black women, LOL.
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Imagining I’m White at Chuck E. Cheese’s: LMAO
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At my University I am in a class called Human Development, and what I learnt is that white men prefer black women over any race. I know this may be hard to hear coming from a black girl, but this is what I’m learning. I am not trying to get any opposition from your own opinions; I’m just stating a true common fact.
What are your sources on this?
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One of the most remarkable aspects of the comments on this thread is this: there is extraordinary concern and anxiety about the imagined thoughts of other people who observe, encounter or know the mixed-race couple.
Fear of other’s opinions and biases dominates. That’s certain death for a relationship.
It’s also apparent that a lot of posters are too young to have had a true adult relationship.
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Chelsey:
white men prefer black women over any race.
What planet do you live on. White men have made it very clear that they perfer white women over any other and if they were to go outside their race it would be with an asian woman. Black women are the least desired by white men as marriage statistics show. White men who would even consider dating a black woman are the minority.
It is also true that white men wouldn’t mind having a black child, because it’s different. It’s outside of their race
Are children now guinea pigs? What do you mean by “different”? That is the worst reason to have a child. Do you even know what some biracial children go through because some people veiw them as “different”. Racist white people veiw black people as “different” and inferior.
I’m not trying say that white men are high superiority, just cause I have an amazing white boyfriend
If you’re not trying to say white men are superior, why even mention your “amazing” white boyfriend?
Not all white men are nasty to black females. If so, I say to check your attitude, because most likely the black woman that’s being treated nasty is treating him nasty as well.
I see you too stereotype black women as having nasty attitudes. I now understand why you two are together you just like many white people feel a need to justify racism by saying black people bring it on themselves.
Majority of white men are respectful to any girl who is attractive
Why not respect all women regardless of how they look?
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First of all I speak for my and myself only, I’m through with this stupid thread…you guya can’t take comments, becuase I’m either racist towards my own race, which is blacks, or I am sucking up to the white race. I am not doing either one. I was trying to state my fucking opinion on what I’ve learned and how I feel about this stupid ass topic, but obviously people can’t handle the damn truth….I’m through!!
And the truth is:
White men do like black women…secretly pehaps, but they like us.
They would prefer a black baby because it’s not white like them.
Any race that’s not of color wants to have pigmentation
why do think everyone is mixed!!! Everyone!! No one is pure no one.
I am not stereotyping any black person, it just hurts to tell the truth from one black person to another….and I’m not racist towards blacks in any way, because I’m black myself.
Why mention my boyfriend? Because I wanted to prove that BW don’t have to think negatively all the fucking time.
If anyone replies to this I DON’T CARE NO MORE cause with each reply given to me is more stupid than the first one. (Not saying that black people are stupid)
I just happen to know that you’re black cause you automatically said I was stereotyping…WTH if I was stereotyping believe me I would not be on your side….oh wait you can’t see that 😡
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I said attractive!!!! that does not mean ugly or pretty it just means attractive…so any male who finds you attractive!!!! wow seriously look up words and see what the hell they mean people
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no_slappz, where have you been. I missed you, LOL!
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Why dont you look up the definition and you will see that attractive, like many other words has more than one meaning, one referring to physical appearance. The way you used the word attractive in your statement could describe someone physically or their personality. Most men use the word when referring to a womans appearance.
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Wow. Not sure what to think after reading these posts. So I thought I’d state my own opinons.
1st I want everyone to know I was born and raised in Toledo, Ohio and most of my friends growing up were mixed with one thing or another, my father as well is white and black. I never thought of myself as sheltered I just never saw color first or been thrown into a situation.. Til I turned a teen and my family moved to Charlotte, Nc. Oh my. I am met more people of all different types here and finally understood why people give out sterotypes. I do not believe we should, however it happens.
I do believe times are changing and race isn’t the only varible in most situations anymore. I have been blessed at work to get ahead and more promotions than anyone else in my department. Even though my father is mixed I consider myself strictly black. I have met racist people who proclaimed to not like black people yet feel the need to say “but your pretty/nice/cool” 1st time I heard it was like a slap in the face and halarious in the sense that I do not believe they know what prejudice really means. Most people have never had to open themselves up enough to deal with different races. I’ve been snubbed at work a few times before all by white woman who perferred someone to help them that reflects them. However my most valuable and loyal customers are all white (and two black) couples.
Also when we accept customers during my school hours I get swarmed by white woman who say they appreciate my skills and the way I carry myself. Depending on the situation I am in sometimes I talk more proper (Ohio speech) and other times I cuss a bit more. I don’t see this as a negative thing or hiding who I am. I am both of these sides, we must learn to become bigger than ourselves. Bigger than race and stereotypes. Theres a larger picture that remains to be seen, a picture I imagine Pres. Obama is working towards. But this is just my thoughts.
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Why so few white men marry black women? I think the truth is that the more color is an issue the less likely mixed marriages are to happen. If you marry a white guy and he is always saying white this and black that, how long will it last? The truth is even the comments on here from women that like white guys get to sound bad after I hear it repeatedly. (white guy here). I dont want to be your white guy and I dont want a black women. I just want a nice, smart and funny women! What color? STOP with the color mess. White guys will date you if you show interest and the ones that wont dont matter. It’s the same for us!! If we ask a nice lady of color out, there’s no garanty she will say yes. if she says no then we find another lady we are interested in. It’s not white or black, it’s dating period! So why is there not more wm/bw couples? I think the reasons are alot more simple that everyone give credit to. Fear of rejection by both based on color is a likely one. So is cultural differences. For the most part white guys like any women that tells him he is sexy or handsome. Most of the racist whites I know are hillbilly redneck types. Would you want one of those? The nice looking white guys are usually better raised and more open. If you like a guy, let him know. Be blunt or be subtle, just make a move. He may be interested but saying to himself “she wouldnt give me the time of day, I’m white”. The really handson white guys may not have this problem but he has alot of options and most times I think will go for the more exceptable option. Less chance of getting beat up or hearing racial remarks from both sides. Sad but it happens. I say dont be a part of the race wars! I refuse to be! I like you because your a sweet, loyal person or I dislike you because you are mean and say ugly things about ppl. Judge me by the human standard, not the color standard. I am a white guy and I want to know you because you are worth knowing.
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Chelsey, I’d like to see a source for that stuff you’re learning too, please.
Bryan and Mira, the blogs comments section is now fixed and should let you ijn. Please tell me if you’re still having trouble.
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Mira says -There’s nothing wrong in being specific. Using non human colours often sounds like a “purple people” argument, which implies you don’t seriously think about race. If you really decide to marry and have children with a black (or non-white woman), chances are that she will take race much more seriously.
I dont seriously think about race? Your right I dont! Racing importance is the poisoned well we keep trying to drink from now! Why make race the topic everyone needs to be aware of? Isn’t the over sensitive value on race instead of moral value the problem now? Why should I be concerned with color? I think everyone needs to see the person first, the values and opinions next and color not at all. It’s not that way but it has to begin somewhere why not with you and I? color is a topic here and I see no problem talking about it but if I married a black women and have kids. I wont to discuss our next vacation, how our kids are doing in school, what we will service this weekend when our friends come over. Race I will discuss but I dont wont it to be so big that it takes over our lives. If I married her it wasnt a big factor then, why let it become one later?
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sorry it sould be serve above not service, lol.
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@bryan51672
Ok that’s all well and good but race is a thing that people of colour have to deal with on a daily basis and not talking about that problem does not make it go away. The image of somebody with their fingers in their ears scream “Lalalalalala!” come to mind.
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Aiyo-Ok that’s all well and good but race is a thing that people of colour have to deal with on a daily basis and not talking about that problem does not make it go away.
I really dont understand competely. You deal with race everyday? How so, and what would you advice ppl to do to work for unity?
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bryan51672,
I am not saying race should matter. But it does. Maybe not as much to you (white guy), but non-white people have to deal with it all the time, because society won’t let them forget the fact they’re not white (and therefore not privileged members of the same society).
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Mira,
I cosign. Please forgive me for today’s rant on this post above but I had to speak the truth about the state of race relations.
La Reyna
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bryan51672 says,
For the most part white guys like any women that tells him he is sexy or handsome. Most of the racist whites I know are hillbilly redneck types. Would you want one of those? The nice looking white guys are usually better raised and more open. If you like a guy, let him know. Be blunt or be subtle, just make a move. He may be interested but saying to himself “she wouldnt give me the time of day, I’m white”. The really handson white guys may not have this problem but he has alot of options and most times I think will go for the more exceptable option
laromana says,
bryan51672,
I understand that there are some who may want to DENY REALITY, but the TRUTH is that in my ACTUAL LIFE experience (and that of other BW I know who are/have ALWAYS BEEN OPEN to IRR’S with WM) MANY WM (regardless of looks, class, state of origin, upbringing, personality, etc.) in America who claim to be attracted to BW, may not have a problem with having a CASUAL or strictly sexual relationship with a BW but are “AFRAID” (ANTI-BW COWARDICE) to be in a SERIOUS DATING and/or MARRIAGE relationship with a BW (because of what OTHERS might say about a BW/WM relationship) or they don’t feel BW are “good enough” (ANTI-BW RACISM) to SERIOUSLY DATE and/or MARRY. These same WM have NO PROBLEM establishing SERIOUS/PERMANENT IRR’S with OTHER NON-WW (Asians, White Latinas, East Indians, etc.).
In either case, BW (regardless of looks, personality, character, educational level, career success, class, etc.) ARE NOT TO BLAME when MANY (ANTI-BW COWARD/ANTI-BW RACIST ) WM in America reject them for SERIOUS IRR’S SOLEY BECAUSE THEY ARE BW.
BW did NOT INVENT ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE (or the “race wars”) in American society/media/culture but our lives are affected by it from the time we are born to the day we die.
Like you, I would like to see ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE (and ALL RACISM) DESTROYED but, until that happens, I’m forced to HONESTLY confront the LIES, MYTHS, and STEREOTYPES that continue to affect the quality of my relationships and other parts of my life as a BW in America.
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Actually I’m half white and half Asian. I grew up in a small rural town in NC. The population was like 2500 people. Majority of them were black. My schools we all 60/40 black/white at best. I sometimes feel like I’m black. I was constantly called names because I was the only asian kid in the entire town. The black kids called me chinese and didn’t bother to ask what I was. It didn’t really bother me though. During high school, the black girls just wanted me badly. They would say things like “mmm, we could make some pretty babies.” I hooked up with a black girl once and she was cool. I liked her. I like black women. They are strong and not timid.
@Laveumthinking: I meant that as a compliment. Black women are strong and can stand up for what they want. They are not timid and shy. They are vocal and deserve to be heard and loved.
you guys are cool. “you guys” = this blog and the contributors.
Unity by any means necessary.
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I like Monique too. I think she would consider me one of her own.
She is confident and that is sexy on any woman.
Black white brown green skinny fat whatever.
Confidence is SEXY!
Guys…am I right? Do you think confidence in a woman is SEXY?
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Think about all the haterade back in the 90s when Whitney Houston married Bobby Brown.
Now THERE`S a model couple…
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I am an educated white man who likes all kind of people; I have lots of friends of different races, religions and sexuality and it does not change how I feel about them. I have a lot of black friends, and I love being friends with black girls. I love them as friends, but have never felt the desire to date, have sex with or marry one. Its just not how I feel, its just not there. It has nothing to do with their race. I also get the same feeling back….they love me as a friend, but have no dating, sex or marriage feeling for me either. I have never been with a black girl, and don’t think I ever will. Ditto for them, I do not feel they feel that way about me. Yet there is not a bit of racism or prejudice either way.
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Here’s what I think:
Americans take sex FAR too seriously. Only an American would try to make sex into a political or life-style statement.
The rest of us out here in the real world are just happy to get some, now and then, and if we can find someone compatible who we can build a loving relationship with, that’s just great.
Appropriate color-coding is the last thing anyone should worry about when it comes to the libido.
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Just stumbled on to this topic from the UK. I am a black woman that has been dating a lovely white guy for the last 6 years and I couldn’t imagine being with anyone else. He worships me and wants to marry me. I am an educated working professional in media. I didn’t date him because of skin colour, we met and there was an instant chemistry which is key to any relationship regardless of colour. In fact I would probably not have chosen him in another world as he is fair haired, and a musician. I thought I would be with a dark, high flying, mover and shaker. However, we just clicked as we are both creative, attractive and just connect on all levels. The chemistry was electrifying!! Sure we have had our ups and down like any other couple but those problems have not been related to race but more to do with having a relationship. Relationships can be challenging regardless of colour. I’m trying to say that a black woman and white guy can have a normal relationship like anyone else and it has nothing to do with race.
I have never had problems attracting men from all races and I have dated both black and white men and found good qualities in both. It just happens that the guy I am in love with is white!
I think the issue of white men not marrying black women works both ways as it is a matter of ‘choice’. There is a stigma attached to this and for this reason a lot of black women, by ‘choice’ will not date white men let alone marry them. Much of this is related to the woman’s upbringing ( taught from an early age to date within the race) and the deep rooted psychological effects of slavery. They fear what people in the community will think and give off a vibe that says “Stay Clear” to all white men that approach. So it’s not only about white men not choosing black women to marry. There are probably a lot of white guys out there that are interested in black women but are not confident in approaching them because they give off that vibe. They are mostly likely to have come from backgrounds where they have not had the opportunity to engage with women from different cultural backgrounds and feel that they have to approach in a special way. All women want to be wooed and swept off their feet. A woman is a woman at the end of the day regardless of colour (it’s just skin)!! There are also those (probably the majority) whose perceptions of black women are clouded by stereotypes and will not date based on this as they have not been put in a situation where these stereotypes have been challenged. Stalemate for BW/WM relationship!!
I think if more white men had/or created opportunities to engage with black women and black women were more open to the idea, they would find that they have more in common than they think. Black women are strong, independent, ambitious, have vibrant personalities and can hold their own. These qualities rank high with most men as no man really wants a submissive woman that they will eventually get bored with and lose respect for. There will never be dull moment with a black woman!!
I have black female friends who are working professionals that were totally opposed to dating white men but are slowly becoming more open to the idea. Many of these women work alongside white men in high powered roles so they get to know them by working alongside them. Here ‘race’ goes out the window and it becomes more about personality and chemistry. This is why there is an increase in the number of black women/white men relationships in the UK. Those relationships formed usually last a long time as the couple has built a mutual respect for each other over a period of time by working together or getting to know each other through the same circle of friends. Plus, it helps that the couple are on an equal level, ecomonicaly and professionally. You would not find many black women seeking a dead beat white guy but that is the case for any race of guy. Every woman aspires to be with a man that is her equal, that is ambitious and motivated to succeed in whatever he chooses to do. This has nothing to do with race.
I also have a number of black male friends who are working professionals. Although they are open-minded about inter-racial relationships, they date/marry equally successful black woman by ‘choice’.
It’s human nature to gravitate towards your own kind, however opposites do attract and fall in love!!!
I think this topic/issue is more relevant to the USA as things are different here in the UK and Europe at large. Although America is considered to be a melting pot, I find it to be much more segregated than Europe where interracial relationships, diversity and multiculturalism are accepted, particularly in the UK. Change is definitely due in America, maybe having a bi-racial president will break down the walls of mental segregation (ingrained in the mind)!!
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Here’s another point:
I think the differences between women and men are as vaster or even more vast than those outstanding between blacks and whites.
In my own personal case, gender has caused far many more issues than color.
And yet people seem to presume that gender issues are natural and “resolvable”, even though by all rights there should be as much historic bad blood between men and women ad between blacks and whites.
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Interesting. I always felt men and women are not that much different.
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Well, I’ve always felt the same about all humans, actually.
But if we want to pull out the differences and emphasize those, men and women have at least as much call to be uncomfortable with each other as whites and blacks.
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Why should black women even care about white men wanting to date them or not? There are other ethnicities of men. I get approached by sexy Latino men all the time.
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Men are women in essence have more in common than not… societal norms create this rift. Many of these problems, though, are more acute within the black community.
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Abagond,
Maybe you should do a post on one or more of the following:
black women and middle eastern men
black women and hispanic men
black women and indian men
I think we get too caught up in these issues being black and white. Of course I know it’s because we don’t have the history with other races that we have with whites here in America. So that’s understandable.
Who agrees that most of the interracial relationships you see either invole a black person and a non black person or a white person and a non white person? You rarely see like an asian dating an hispanic. It seems that blacks and whites date interracially more so than other races.
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Laveumthinking,
I get approached and hit on by middle eastern men all the time! So I agree that this interracial talk shouldn’t always center around white men.
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Laveumthinking,
When ever the talk of interracial relationships comes up white people always get mentioned I remebr watching something on youtube and a black woman said her boyfirend wasn’t black and people automatically assumed that her boyfired was white and left bad comments and she came back saying she never said her boyfriend was black he was in fact chinese jamaican.
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I agree with Shani, the issue isn’t always about black and white. Why don’t people ever ask why South Asian and East Asian men don’t marry black women? How many of these inter-racial relationships do you see? It is rare here in the UK as many of those of Indian and Pakistani descent will not marry a black woman because of the confines of religion and their culture (cast system). The same with Chinese and Japanese. They may desire or have an interest in black women but will not take it further, as in their cultures black is deemed to be the lowest of the low. Those that do take it beyond flirting/dating (mainly females dating white/black men) pay heavy consequences such as their families totally disowning them. Particularly if it is Asian woman/Black man. Their families are a little more tolerant if it is Asian woman/White man.
There is racism between different non-white cultures even though there isn’t the same history as with blacks and whites. You would think that these cultures would be able to relate well with each other but it is not the case as each believes they are far superior than the other!
This maybe down to slavery, imperialism or colonialism but isn’t it time that all of us in the non-white community moved on from this and put our energies into other things!!!
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Sorry but I have to disagree with the poster from the UK. Although there are some BW/WM couples they are tiny compare to WW/BM. It is rare to see a BW/WM couple in London compare to BM/WW and white men have even said this.
I’ve read and heard WM and BM in the UK say they’re not attracted to BW and won’t date them due to BW having an ‘attitude’ or ‘not being attractive’.
This is down to the Eurocentric beauty ideal that is promoted by the white media in the UK and the absence of Black female beauty – Why do you think Italian Vogue sold out in the UK!!
Unfortunately, BW in the UK face similar racist treatment from both WM and some BM in the dating/marriage department.
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BlackgirlUK
I hope I don’t offend you, but I think you must have misunderstood my comment. I didn’t say that BW/WM relationships were commonplace in the UK, only that there has been an ‘increase’ in this type of relationship. I know this because I am from the London area too and many of my black female friends would never have dreamed of dating a white man 10years ago but attitudes have changed over that period of time. Black culture has become a little more mainstream and there are more successful, black female professionals. Through work they form friendships with people from other cultures which opens out their circle of friends. This can lead to possible IRs. I work in the media field and I have a mix of friends, although the majority of them are black. I guess it depends on age/generation (35 and below age groups are probably more open to this), where you live, profession and the circle of friends people have. The ‘Voice’ did a feature on this, see following link:
http://www.voice-online.co.uk/content.php?show=12808
Everyone knows that the percentage of BM/WW relationships is higher than BW/WM relationships, there is nothing new there. The topic of this post is not BM/WW relationships!!
My point was that love is not about colour but more about chemistry and personality. Therefore it is not impossible for BW and WM to have a relationship if their barriers were put down and they had the opportunity to meet, fall in love and eventually get married. It is also about choice too and it isn’t a crime to favour a man/woman from your own background over one from a different background!! There are some people that are racist but for the majority, it is just about preference/choice. It’s just unfortunate for BW that there are less BM and a large percentage of them would prefer to date outside the race. So why hold out for them when there are other options!!! The issues of IRs here in the UK cannot be compared to those of the USA where segregation between the races still exists, not legally but mentally.
I too bought the Italian Vogue ‘Black Issue’. However, an issue of Vogue produced out of ‘tokenism’ is not going to change society or the fashion industry’s view of black beauty. It would take a lot more than that!! All this did was increase sales for Italian Vogue. If Vogue wanted to make a point, then this issue would have been published worldwide in the various languages instead of just Italian. Or better still black beauty would feature on the pages of mainstream publications worldwide so that there wouldn’t be a need to address this with a one off ‘Black Issue’.
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Asian men and white men in the UK pursue affairs with black women as long as they are clandestine. There are exceptions though, I see plenty of BW/WM couples in London, they may be outnumbered by the WW/BM couples but they are there. Depends on what part of London you live. Middle class surburban areas tend to have BW/WM couples whereas Urban areas account for more WW/BM couples.
The Bw ‘attitude’ is a cop out. To date/marry interracially is one thing, but to demean women of your own race to justify doing so is pathetic.
I can understand the seemingly alarming exodus of black men from black women. I have to check myself from gawking at a thoroughly loved-up black couple, that’s how rare one would think they are. Usually African. Carribean males date interracially in much higher numbers.
Black couples seem to be tucked away into the black community, away from the mainstream, but black couples are churning out black children, they are the overwhelming majority after all.
The ‘straight-out-of-Africa look may be shunned by some black and white men, but let’s be careful not to project the experiences of a few to a whole group. I’ve never felt any overt damning of black women in the UK. We are a tiny minority, I’d say praise for black beauty is proportional to our numbers in a predominantly white country. The all-black Italian vogue sold out because there is some appreciation of black beauty.
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I agree with you totally MerriMay, the ‘attitude’ issue is a cop out and it is probably more rare to see BW/BM couples. The media doesn’t help by not portraying strong BF/BM family units. Look at Eastenders. What happened to shows like Desmonds? There will never be another Cosby Show.
As to the Black Vogue issue, I thought that it was great that it sold out in appreciation for black beauty too and the images were stunning. That’s why I bought it. But it would have been even more great if they followed this through by continuing to use black models in all their worldwide editions and other publications followed their lead!!
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In response to Anonymous UK I did not mean to come across as defensive. I just wanted to let you and others know that BW in the UK are not view that differently from African-American women.
BW in the UK don’t have the same history as African-Americans but there are common stereotypes about British BW which are similar to our American counterparts and I agree with MerriMary that WM and Asian men don’t mind having affairs with BW but don’t want to marry one or have a long- standing relationship this is due to it not being social acceptable to their communities.
In regards to Black Vogue, the reason why it sold out is because a lot of Black women and teenager girls bought the issue. This shows that BW are desperate for images that reflect us in the UK.
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I know. You’d think they’d take the hint but that’s elitism for you. I wanted to be happy about that black issue– but I couldn’t help but ask myself, why did there need to be a black issue in the first place?
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BlackgirlUK & MerriMay
I totally agree with both of you about WM having racist tendencies against BW and the clandestine activities of both Asian and WM. A number of them still see BW as exotic, sexual objects that they secretly lust over as in the days of slavery.
But lets not also forget about the impact that BM not wanting to date/marry BW has. Their relationship (or should I say non-relationship) with BW speaks volumes to all the other races.
The actions of BM may greatly influence the perception of BW to other races of men. The fact that they seek WW as partners over date BW, sends out negative messages. Men of other races think ‘Well if their own men don’t think they are good enough, why should we?” There is nothing wrong with BM dating WW provided their actions are genuine. Unfortunately, a lot of these relationships you see are for status/image where the BM deliberately seeks a WW as a partner. They then justify their actions with the BW ‘attitude’ or ‘aggressive’ line. They perceive being strong, independent and not wanting to be a doormat, for being ‘attitude’. There are a lot of WW that have these same qualities but they are never condemned. I think some BM feel threatened/intimidated by these qualities in BW as it makes them feel insecure that BW can manage without them. All men fundamentally want to be the provider and protector. However, we live in the modern age and women of all races are capable of looking after themselves.
Someone made a comment earlier about how Whitney Houston and Bobby Brown were the perfect couple. I don’t agree at all. When Whitney’s career surpassed Bobby’s failing career, he couldn’t handle it so he helped her ruin it with drugs!! If he was a good husband, he would have helped her to continue achieving that success while building back his own career. Look at the dynamics of Jay Z and Beyonce’s relationship. I’m not saying they are the ‘model’ couple but it works, because they support each other in achieving their goals.
For those BW of the UK, how may times have you seen a South Asian (Indian, Pakistani) man choose a WW over a South Asian woman? They are so proud of their women and culture (even though some of their practices may be questionable to those outside their culture). While other men may desire their women, few would go there out of respect for the South Asian culture. These women represent the unobtainable which makes them more alluring to other men as most men always want what they can’t have!! If BM were more protective over their relationships with BW then men of other races may have a different view of BW. BM seem to only be protective over BW when they see them dating outside the race and then it’s just words and not actions.
Sorry I was going off on a tangent there as this post was about WM and BW. I’ve gotta stop coming on this page/blog, it’s becoming addictive!!
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I have to agree with Anonymous UK in regards to some and a growing majority of BM in UK behaviour towards BW. They display an open dislike/distain of BW to non-BM and this effects on how BW are perceived in the dating arena. I’ve read WM and non-BM say that they are not attracted to BW because BM don’t even like BW or date them, so there is a problem in the British Black community with this issue and I feel it it’s not being discussed because it’s taboo topic. Unfortunately BW are resorting to extreme measures to obtain a European beauty standard such as a 14 year old girl wanting to have a nose job to look like Lily Allen or skin bleaching or blue contact lenses.
Example of this is a BW who had blue contacts input which nearly made her blind:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1209836/Woman-travelled-Panama-operation-turn-brown-eyes-blue–blinded.html
In regards to WM in the UK, I think they often act like BW are invisible to them. I feel this while travelling around London. They seen not to show any interest in making friendships with BW and I think this is one of the major reasons why WM/BW relationships are so low.
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BlackGirlUK
I’m sorry if you feel that way, but those haven’t been my experiences at all in London, feeling ‘invisible’ that is.
Again I have to wonder what part of London you live in. I live in a very conservative lilywhite south West London suburb, where the overwhelming majority of men around me are white.
While I neither work nor live around black males besides those that are guards at M&S or at the tills I can’t rule out your experiences.
I don’t know if you put being invisible down to casual interaction at the pub or winebar, workplace etc??. Or hobbies/sports that are most likely to get you into closer proximity with white males if you date interacially that is.
As a keen biker, hiker and tennis player, I find that my social circle has plenty of interested white males.
I wouldn’t trust any sources negating romance between BW/WM, they’re hardly representative of a whole race. I’d ignore the nay-sayers.
I don’t live in the so called black community so I’m not privy to the growing disdain as you put it of black males towards black females. If that’s the case then that’s very sad.
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BlackGirl UK
I m sorry you have had bad experiences with men (sounds like both BM & WM). Again I agree with MerriMay. I too live in a leafy suburb which is predominately white. Most of my friends are from different backgrounds and I have never felt invisible living in London. I have attracted men from all races, black white, even Asian (BW and Asian men is rare in UK).
The WM I have attracted have ranged from high flying company executives (WM) to laid back media types and non professionals. As I stated in an earlier comment my current partner who I have been with for six years and getting married to is white!! Colour/race has never been an issue in our relationship except when we come across it from outsiders the odd time. The one before the ‘one’ was a great BM who also worked in media and if things had worked out, I would probably be making plans to marry him now.
As I said before, I think it really depends on where you live, the circles you keep and your personality.
When I stated that the actions of BM may influence men of other races, I meant it generally as the majority of IR are with BM/WW which people notice more. I agree that the perceptions that BM give about dating WW is often brushed under the carpet by the community while people are so ready to make issue about other races not wanting to date BW. However, both these factors as well as the impact that slavery had on the self esteem of both BM & BW would have to be considered together to create a fair argument/debate around this.
Can’t believe I’m on here again! Goodnight/Good morning!
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MerriMay & Anonymous UK
Your respones in regards to dating WM are interesting but I think it due to living in a predominately white neighbour (whereas I live in a mixed community) and cultural activities. I have many BW friends and they echo they same experiences as me and see a gulf between them and WM.
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My personal experience with black women is that they are hostile and domineering, also I observe black men running away from black women into the arms of white women and I have to ask myself, what do black men know about black women that I don’t?, near I as can tell black women are obsessed with and only care about the size of a mans bank acct. and his penis.
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Saul Gervase says,
My personal experience with black women is that they are hostile and domineering, also I observe black men running away from black women into the arms of white women and I have to ask myself, what do black men know about black women that I don’t?, near I as can tell black women are obsessed with and only care about the size of a mans bank acct. and his penis.
laromana says,
BW are the MOST LIED ABOUT HUMAN BEINGS ON THE PLANET.
As long as ANTI-BW RACIST/HATERS are willing to ATTACK the HUMANITY, DIGNITY, and FEMININITY of BW instead of treating us like INDIVIDUAL HUMAN WOMEN, we’ll continue to hear IGNORANT LIES like the ones posted above.
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My suggestion to black women who are beautiful, articulate, and interested in white men is simple: move to Canada. My boyfriend is in a metal band. He has piercings in his head that make him look akin to a modern-day young white supremacist. But yet, he is with me. A beautiful, intelligent BLACK woman. And the explanation for this, to me, is simple: he’s Canadian.
My mother’s second husband was a white man. Scratch that, a white German-born (son of a German soldier who died during WWII) well-assimilated CANADIAN man, and as such, was not racist towards black women.
There’s no hope for America. There is nothing you as black women can do as individuals or collectively that will prevent Americans of all races to honour and respect your dignity.
Here’s what you CAN do: Move to Canada, or London, or Paris. Research places that are accepting of black womanhood. Learn the language. Research and practise the culture. People of all ethnicities appreciate immigrants who are respectful of their native culture. Always look your best. You’ll find your White Prince.
Signed,
Proud Black Canadian Female.
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sorry, that will compel*** Americans of all races to honour and respect your dignity…
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Oh, and one more thing: my boyfriend and I are hopelessly in love, and though we have big plans for our shared future, are not married nor are co-habiting (I’m against co-habitation before engagement or marriage). As such, according to census figures, we as a couple do not exist. Food for thought.
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Saul Gervase
Why do you think that black woman are obsessed with bank accounts and big penises? It sounds as if YOU are the one that is insecure about those issues so you have projected that onto black women. Black women are diverse like any other group of people. And no we are not obsessed with those issues. Most of us want a man that is kind, respectful, supportive, and yes we want a man with a job, like any other woman. Why do people think that black woman are obsessed with money? Yes, we want someone who WORKS, white women are no different. Do you think white women want to do all the work while their men do nothing and sit at home? Of course not. So stop talking alot of nonsense. What is up with people and all this hatred? Spread peace and love. Seriously
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20something
I am beginning to think you may have a point. American men have some serious problems. They want to cast all this hatred on black women, when in fact, they are the ones who are insecure. I have a kind, confident, supportive man. I am sooo happy. I don’t want an insecure man, black or white. I am beginning to think that American men have the most fragile egos. Thank God for strong men, black or white.
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Wanted
Kind, understanding, strong, intelligent, non-racist, nonsexist, spiritual, forgiving, nonegotistical, supportive, hardworking men.
Other men need not apply.
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TO MIKE
MIKE, YOUR GRAMMAR IS ATROCIOUS AND YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF PROPER SOURCES AND RESEARCH MATERIALS THAT CONSTITUTE “FACT” (IE NOT OPINIONS SPOUTED ON YOUTUBE, THE LIKES OF WHICH MY SIX YEAR OLD NEPHEW COULD POST IF ALLOWED) IS DISTURBING.
I HAVE BEEN LAUGHING OUT LOUD WHILE SKIMMING THESE COMMENTS, SPECIFICALLY THE FACT THAT YOU ARE SO RECKLESSLY USING, OR MISUSING SHOULD I SAY, THE WORD INTELLIGENCE, BECAUSE IT IS SOMETHING THAT YOU CLEARLY HAVE SUCH A TENUOUS GRASP ON.
THERE IS SO MUCH TO SAY..WHERE TO BEGIN?
-YOU THINK OPINIONS POSTED ON THE INTERNET ARE “FACTS” THAT SOMEHOW DISPUTE OTHER PEOPLE’S OPINIONS ON THIS SITE.
-You cannot identify self-hated, implicit in the idea that some train wreck of a black girl on youtube would suggest WE need to get our act together so white men will date us, as if that is something WE should even aspire to, instead of white men coveting us. Last I checked dating a white man is not a step to the path of Enlightenment, a cure for cancer or HIV, or any number of things I might hope to accomplish in my lifetime. But you, in your transparent yet snuggly and warm blanket of racism, strongly believe that any black person who speaks ill of her own race has simply seen the light. It is an affirmation of your glorious white superiority. Interesting how logic can be twisted so idiotically, and yet so conveniently.
– You have not attempted to provide yourself with a cultural context for the Jamaican girl on youtube criticizing black Americans. Hmmmm whenever someone from a DIFFERENT COUNTRY speaks negatively on AN ENTIRE ETHNIC GROUP, might we take it with a grain of salt? Or do the vast shades of brown encompassed by Jamaicans and Americans mean that one can ACCURATELY and WITH AUTHORITY MAKE JUDGMENTS ABOUT THE OTHER’S CULTURE? In this instance, I am using a rhetorical device called sarcasm. The answer is no, but I am providing it to you anyway free of charge.
Print my comment off and do some highlighting, I know it’s going to take a while to decipher advanced sentence construction, imbued with some actual thinking. Ouch! Potent stuff.
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oh yeah, and CONFIDENCE IS IMPORTANT.
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Saul Gervase says,
My personal experience with black women is that they are hostile and domineering, also I observe black men running away from black women into the arms of white women and I have to ask myself, what do black men know about black women that I don’t?, near I as can tell black women are obsessed with and only care about the size of a mans bank acct. and his penis.”
laromana says,
Spoken like a typical IGNORANT, ANTI-BW RACIST/HATER.
This comment is more evidence of how BW are the most LIED about HUMAN BEINGS on the planet. These RACIST ANTI-BW LIES, MYTHS, and STEREOTYPES need to be DESTROYED once and for all and the HUMANITY, DIGNITY, and FEMININITY of BW NEEDS to be RESPECTED by EVERYONE.
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Not wanting black children does not have to do with believing that one race is superior to another. Which is what racism means.
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laramona why get upset, people with that mindset are doing us a favor, its best they stay away from black women…
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The attitude stereotype about black women is really getting tired…can’t they come up with something else for a change….
In terms of white men dating bw. I’m kinda getting sick of people using white men as the criteria for what is deemed attractive. WHo gives a d*mn whether white men are dating more bw or not. Really…who cares. White men are not the end all be all in terms of what is attractive and what is not.
I’m just sick of people acting like white men’s opinions matter so much, who cares about what they think…really. They’re not that special, they’re men like anyone else and if it takes a white man this damn long to realize that bw are women and human beings first and foremost just everyone else, why would you want that wm?
Why should have to wait for ignorant wm to wake up and realize that…*GASP* bw are women too, so therefore they can date us too…I’m sick of it, who cares what white men think
and also wb need to stop waiting for mainstream (read western media) to portray bw in a fair and good light. SCREW THEM, LET’S MAKE OUR OWN DAMN MEDIA and we’ll dominate that on our own. They can keep their whitewashed media, we’ll make our own.
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I’m not against interracial relationships. I’ve been with white guys before. But, I’m just going to say this, black men and black women have built a beautiful culture together on a worldwide level. Just looking at black american culture. Gospel, spirituals, soul music, hip hop, Jazz, rock n roll, doo wop, motown, lindy hop. A lot of stuff. Honestly, even though I am open to non-black men, as I look at the individual. If a man is nice to me, I’ll give him a chance, but overall I still prefer bm and that’s mainly because of the culture we’ve built as a people.
It gets annoying when people act like the opinion of wm/ww is somehow more substantial than that of bp. Like that stupid cover controversy for that “New Hollywood Magazine…” Who the hell cares if it was all white, take that as a hint that bp need to start putting their own images in their own magazines. Stop BEGGING to be accepted by whites. They are always going to uplift their own culture first and foremost and the sooner blacks realize this and start to do the same the better off we’ll all be..
So let’s get control back over our buisness and magazines and newspapers and start putting our own positive images up, then it won’t matter what white people think about bw…
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@Peanut
In terms of white men dating bw. I’m kinda getting sick of people using white men as the criteria for what is deemed attractive. WHo gives a d*mn whether white men are dating more bw or not. Really…who cares. White men are not the end all be all in terms of what is attractive and what is not.
I’m just sick of people acting like white men’s opinions matter so much, who cares about what they think…really. They’re not that special, they’re men like anyone else and if it takes a white man this damn long to realize that bw are women and human beings first and foremost just everyone else, why would you want that wm?
God bless you child!!! That is what I’ve been trying to say.You took the words right out of my mouth. I mean who cares about white guys? Really…who cares? They are not the only men on the planet.
Stop BEGGING to be accepted by whites.
I agree. This is getting beyond embarassing.
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peanut says,
laramona why get upset, people with that mindset are doing us a favor, its best they stay away from black women…
laromana says,
It’s necessary to CONFRONT/CONDEMN ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE regardless of who it comes from.
Also, it’s important to CONFRONT/CONDEMN men of ANY RACE who don’t respect the HUMANITY/DIGNITY/FEMININITY of BW and PRAISE men of ANY RACE who UPLIFT/HONOR the HUMANITY/DIGNITY/FEMININITY of BW.
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I agree 101%.
What exactly is so great about white guys again?….
If they don’t like black women, fine! Get over it and move on to other men. Honestly, it’s so embarrassing seeing all these questions asking “Do white guys like black girls” or “Why don’t white guys like black girls” or some other deviation of sorts. Why do you freaking care? On one hand, i understand because they are the majority in any Western country, so it’s hard not to care about the opinion of the majority when they are everywhere you go, but on the other hand, it still is so pathetic and desperate. Like all these blogs by black women that get so happy when all these random white celebrity men date black women. Ugh, so sad.
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thank you melanie and leaveumthinking,
I can understand that some bw may feel hurt that mainstream (read:white) society doesn’t really include black women’s beauty in terms of mass appeal, but why beg for attention. we know we’re attractive just as attractive as anyone else so who cares what white men think really? Deep down inside other people know we’re attractive too. If we weren’t they wouldn’t bother harassing bw as a group more than anyone else.
That is why I wanted abagond to do a post on why more black women dont’ choose white men. Honestly, I’ve turned down white men before as well as other non-bm just because we didn’t click. These posts make it sound like bw are so desperate to get/lay up with white men and that’s really not even the case. It’s about respect more than anything. I don’t care if wm find bw physically appealing or not, but they WILL respect me regardless and they WILL respect my sisters regardless. That’s all that matters.
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“I left out any account of what black women think of the whole thing! When I found out that only one white American man in 400 is married to a black woman, it seemed like a straightforward case of white racism. But then some black female commenters said that the ugly history that black women have had with white men in America – all the rapes back in slave days – is in the back of their minds and that works against such relationships. And, even apart from that, the ongoing racism in American society makes it hard to trust whites.”
I’ll give you the real reason why SOME black women prefer not to date SOME white men…
1. In my experience, it’s difficult for many wm to see bw as individuals, even when they prefer to date bw.
example: Wm states that he prefers to date bw because he likes the way they dance. Thus, he expects the bw he dates to all be able to dance. It’s not a negative stereotype, but a stereotype nonetheless and that means he still can’t really see bw as individuals.
2. Some wp tend to view the atttractive, classy and intelligent bw they encounter as exceptions and exempt from being ” regular black” by virtue of the fact that they don’t conform to neg. black female stereotypes.
ex:being called white girl in a black girls body/ chocolate-dipped white girl
3. Some wp forget that you’re black and will say stuff without thinking infront of you. too many example to recount.
4. Referring to bp who don’t conform to mainstream (white society’s) expectations as “ghetto.”
5. Attributing bad behavior on the part of the individual as a black attribute. Or racializing behavior that has nothing to do with race.
Those are just a few instances of things that interfere with relationships between bw/wm. I find in my experience that there is always going to be that awkward moment, where you realize how our two cultures have really been created in opposition to eachother. Where he sees things from his perspective culture, I always seem to be on the opposite end of my perspective culture.
How can you expect two groups whose history has positioned their cultures in opposition to one another to get along well enough to the point that there would be massive outpouring of marriages/relationship between the respective cultures?
White American culture was set up to be the adversary of black american culture. So its understandable that the two groups would have issues interacting. The only reason bw/wm interacted more in the past (sexually anyway) was because it was forced and bp had no power or choice in the matter.
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Peanut:
You said you had ten reasons. If you send me all ten then I can make it into a post.
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Sometimes I wonder why this thread has so many posts, I actually haven’t read all the comments here only some close to the end but if people are seriously begging I feel they need to step and maybe find another blog or website becuase it is pathetic.
that is all
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oh okay i will then
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Yup.
BW who cry for the attention of WM are equally as pathetic as the BW who cry “nothin’ but a BM for me!’
‘ i love my black brothas, come home”….it’s like chill, BM are the ones doing the most irr between BW and BM.
They’re the ones saying things such as ‘ i don’t do dark butts’ and ‘red bone’ and things like that, they’re the ones seeking anything BUT BW.
Sorry, i know it’s hard to hear the cold truth but facts are facts, more and more BM are starting to date OUT, meaning, NOT BW.
Even if ALL BM decided to marry ALL BW, there would STILL be BW unmarried, so it DOES make sense for a BW to widen her dating pool, ALOT of sense.
and the BW i see with WM/or other NON BM, do NOT have self hating issues, infact, they seem a hell of a lot happier than the people here who seem to have aggression problems.
just CHILL – you don’t want to date white men? – DON*T.
Most of us who are dating WM aren’t dating the racist rednecks who HATE BW.
just STOP with that B.S already!
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6. Some wm think they’re doing bw a favor by dating and or mating them. Since bw are perceived supposedly as being on the bottom of the beauty hierarchy.
(ex: this is evident in the older white males who tend to approach young, young bw after the wm has already married, procreated white children and divorced) Just by virtue of their whiteness, I guess that makes them compatible with a bw who is younger than their youngest child….not!
7. Some wm who date bw think they’re officially an authority/ expert on black people overall by virtue of the fact that their gf/wife is black.
8. Some wm expect you to mindlessly agree with them about issues pertaining to politics/race. When you disagree you are seen as combative or you hurt their feelings/alienate them. (ex: Wm makes comment about affirmative action being reverse racism. You respond by recounting the inequities in the schooling system, which favor whites. You mention the “legacy clause” as a form of affirmative action that overwhelmingly benefits wp.) You are polite and make sure to speak gently when you discuss this, he thinks you’re being combative/ militant.
9. Some wm feel as if its their job to “save” the black woman from the “wretchedness” of the black community. (The Bodyguard Complex)
10. My favorite, my absolute favorite…the segment of white men who date bw as a way to rationalize away their own racism… Some wm think that because they date and or end up with a bw that they’re exempt from racist thoughts.
Hence the classic phrase ” I’m not racist, I dated a black girl in High School.”
**These are my opinions, they are based off my personal experiences. I am in no way saying all white men think this way. I am not saying interracial dating is wrong. I am not saying white men are evil. So don’t come at me with any crazy comments about being anti-white male please.If this doesn’t apply to you, then leave it alone.***
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*oh and mostly all that stuff can be applied to white women. Especially # 10. Can’t tell you how many ww are racist and date bm…* Make sure you note that
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White men get jealous when we date black men. As if black men are less than them. I prefer Black men and I won’t dat white men
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***I also want to add to that little post that I do not condemn wm who have these thoughts. I believe in educating them. You can’t really help that you’re a product of your enviorment. White american culture has a history of brainwashing both blacks and whites to believe certains notions and stereotypes. If you’re immersed in that type of mindset constantly whether you realize it or not, it WILL take an effect on your perception. That is why I believe in understanding and exchange of view points. That is the only way that you can make progress***
Overall, if you’re a bw who prefers to date wm or other non-bm, go for it! As long as he respects you. If you’re a bw who prefers bm, go for it, as long as he respects you. If you don’t care, more power to you. Thats my take on it.
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you want me to email it to you abagond?
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Peanut:
I will email it to you.
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Lynette, quit projecting, I have never had a bad experience with a black man because i have never dated one, now you do the math, genuis.
and just because YOU are married to a BM and have been for 15 years doesn’t mean anything.
there are MORE BW in America than BM, again, YOU do the math.
gate keepers like you are pathetic, BM can protect themselves, they don’t need you to defend them. Men are MEN.
Maybe you should focus on protecting and advicing your fellow BLACK WOMEN for once, and tell them what is REALLY going on.
Numbers don’t lie.
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Tell ’em, Lynette!
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@Peanut
I agree completely, a lot of these posts do make me cringe, as if everything hinges on white men. Who cares what the heck they think. I for one couldn’t care less.
I second your suggestion that Abagond do a post on why black women don’t date white men. Goodness I too have turned a lot of white men.
WE DO NOT CHASE AFTER WHITE MEN!! THEY CHASE US!!
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Peanut:
I just emailed you the draft of the post. Please read it over and make whatever corrections you want. If you keep it between 480 and 500 words it will go straight up when I get it back.
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Aw, snap that’s gonna be a good post. Can’t wait to see the comments on that one. *Kudos to Peanut*
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you’re right…black American women seem to chase black men a lot though…is that why black men in larger number are dating irr?
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peanut says,
Overall, if you’re a bw who prefers to date wm or other non-bm, go for it! As long as he respects you. If you’re a bw who prefers bm, go for it, as long as he respects you. If you don’t care, more power to you. Thats my take on it.
laromana says,
Excellent points. RESPECT for BW REGARDLESS of the RACE of man they choose, should be a NON-NEGOTIABLE requirement.
Teaching men of ALL RACES how to be more RESPECTFUL of the HUMANITY, DIGNITY, and FEMININITY of BW in an ANTI-BW/RACIST culture is a MAJOR reason that a post like this one (and similar ones on abagond’s blog) are necessary.
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good post la reyna. I am still waiting for ABC to tell white men to start dating bw in massive numbers. Why is it always bw need to start dating white men. That’s ridiculous, they’re the majority in the country, why don’t they tell white men that?? It’s insulting.
In case some o yall didn’t know there was Jim Crow decorem law that stated blacks weren’t allowed to kiss/show affection with other blacks in public. Look it up. I think it speaks volumes that it offended some whites to see blacks showing affection to one another. I still think that is relevant today. They still have issues showing bp in stable, affectionate relationships.
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Peanut:
The post is up:
If there are any corrections you need let me know.
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Peanut stated in her post:
“In case some o yall didn’t know there was Jim Crow decorem law that stated blacks weren’t allowed to kiss/show affection with other blacks in public. Look it up. I think it speaks volumes that it offended some whites to see blacks showing affection to one another. I still think that is relevant today. They still have issues showing bp in stable, affectionate relationships.”
That’s so true and guess what, whites, whether liberal or conservative, have a big fat problem with the Obamas showing their love to the world. It is also the reason why Hollywood is resistant to show humanity of Black couples in their range and humanness because that would force whites to consider the humanity and range of Black folk worldwide.
La Reyna
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La Reyna:
Excellent post. These things are not said enough. Thanks for the link.
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Abagond,
You’re welcome. Please feel free to comment on my blog.
La Reyna
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nice post thanks , i made some spelling errors though
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i sent u a pic abagond it has a white man/bw in it. if u like it u can post if not the one you have is great
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I saw that too but it is a picture of Aretha Franklin and record producer Jerry Wexler. As far as I know their relationship was strictly professional.
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that is aretha…
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Good, correct post out there. Seems like everything is false, specially from the major news corperations with the big slants to the left or right. Did you see last nights Late Late Show? haha, that was hilarious! Sorry, I’m rambling along again. Have a Great day!
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hey i am australian and i am white, i have nothing to do with your racist views. you guys are really stupid arn’t you, you keep saying theres eqaulity though a black person can say ” you white guys” but white americans get absolutely slaughtered if they say “you black guys”. i mean come on… seriously and im not picking sides because the kkk is really fucked up.
you guys are complaining about something that happened along time ago, would your black grandperants be proud of you if you still, after you have got the freedom that they earnt FOR YOU! to still be complaining.. you guys have got all these rights, so just be happy.
so my dad was born in england my mums grandperants were convicts for only nickingg a bit of bread! but i love my country love black white yellow and brown!. see its all the same its happened to pretty much all races around the world expecially whites aswell along time ago, BUT IT STILL HAPENNED! but do we still hold a fucking anouying grudge like both of your races do? NO, so grow up and take in and live the life HAPPILLY like you ancestors wanted you too!
because this really has to stop!
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I dated “black” women, but the mentality is mostly to rob me out of my cash and then steal all the money in my bank account… Or they try to borrow a big amount from me… No, thank you.
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*sighs* at John
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@freo:
This coming from a man whose country fairly recently let non-whites immigrate there, who recently apologized to the Aborigines for stealing their children, the list is long as to their dealings with racialized peoples.
@ John:
The ‘black’ women you dated are probably glad to have seen the back of you.
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@ John:
The ‘black’ women you dated are probably glad to have seen the back of you.
LOL
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You know what, I think it is time we as Black women stop responding to every ignorant comment that some person, who is only trying to get a rise out of you, makes. Ignore these people and rise above it all. You are too good to let someone bring you down to their level. Pray for the people who clearly have problems and move on to another topic, please.
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I have read about 30 posts and the more I read, the more upset I get. It is very disheartening that many people still think this way about black women and people in general.
To Mike and Robert Lindsay, I am sorry that your experiences with Black women have been so negative. I assure you that in every race there are good and bad people. What makes a stereotype is when a small percentage of people are used as the majority. If you were to look at me you would probably have some preconceived notions about me. People in my race do this as well. I am a young woman who grew up in some pretty rough streets in Brooklyn, NY. Many people will then assume that I am “Ghetto”. I believe that “ghetto” is a state of mind. I consider myself hood or street smart. I grew up in the ghetto or a low socioeconomic area but I didn’t let the negativity around me consume me like many black people do, like the ones you speak of have. I was fortunate that I had a mother who saw better than what was seen in our neighborhood and knew that life wasn’t going to be easy but was determined to show me that black people don’t all live like this. She made sure that I had the resources to make a better life for myself.
We are all guilty of being racist or stereotypical at least some of the time. The truth is that racism has stained our history and quite frankly it will probably never go away on every level. This might be why many black women might appear to be angry or aggressive. Black women have always had to be strong for survival reasons and that is very apparent in the attitudes of black women today. We just need to educate ourselves about our history as well as other races. We need to open our minds and maybe the next time we are around someone of another race we and see them as human first and then their race.
A Proud Black Woman
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Great post, nikki67
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My earlier post if for any person for anyone who feels negatively about black people. It’s sad because so few people actually behave in the manner these misunderstood people speak of.
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“To Mike and Robert Lindsay, I am sorry that your experiences with Black women have been so negative. ”
“The same Black women who scream that we White guys are the Greatest Rapists That Ever Lived also fume that we say Black women are “unrapeable”. The ultimate insult. Cognitive disconnect anyone? These same Black women fuming about the White male as the most evil creature that ever stalked the Earth openly admit that they want to marry and have kids with a White man.
Go figure.”
this was a quote i got off of a blog by someone called “Robert Lindsay…” the only insult is that people continue to try and change and rewrite history to make themselves feel better. then obsess about how bp obsess about them when history says the exact opposite…
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im a beautiful , openminded educated black woman (no ghetto trash)whose dated white men for years. yeah im atrracted to them
Guys its simple…WHITE MEN are more RACIST than WHITE WOMEN. how many white men do you see walking hand in hand with a black woman in the street?, in contrast i see lots of white women with black men in social places all over europe. BUT its not because they dont want tthem. they are having lots of ihankie pankie with them black mamas.
The white man wants to shag black women but wont marry them. many will even tell how the white women are ugly and sexless.
They will dater you but they dont want to be seen in public with you, but in dark corners in clubs will lust after you,
they will shag yu on illicite liasons but will never MARRY you. you are just his dirty little secret. most wont even introduce you to their friends.
Theyre even date you and say racist things to you. one of then said to me “at least youre not too black….” or just use stereotypes. and always remind you of your race with stupid racial references.E.G
“is tt true thAT BLCK MEN HAVE BIGGER…”
“do you wash you hair/?? its so curly..”
to top it all some have been very dissapointing tin the sack.i just wish they werbt so insecure.
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at johnwho says black women robbed you,
congatulaitions to the women who robbed you you racist looser.
maybe theyr buy back some self restpent for dating a a.hole like you. and at leasthey wre more intelligent than you if they tricked you
youre a racist , coward bigot who can only say such racist things in the net.
and i bet youre one of those ugly fat bold fat looser reject who goes on sex tourism and them get robbed in in thailnd ,or gets “robbed ” after picking women in bars in the third world and then complains hes been robbed!!!etc
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parrotalk said
to top it all some have been very dissapointing tin the sack.
LOL I believe you. Their insecurities must come from somewhere. White men being disappointing in the sack explains a hell of alot.
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parrotalk…It seems I only marry black women..twice at
least
“to top it all some have been very dissapointing tin the sack.”
“LOL I believe you. Their insecurities must come from somewhere. White men being disappointing in the sack explains a hell of alot.”
leaveumthinking and parrotalk….ooohhhweeee , dont be so mean , I better look into viagra
yeah, its a drag when those guys make such generalisations with so little experiance
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@parrottalk:
I am sure there are many men out there who would marry you or be in a good relationship with you. Stop going with losers!
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can someone explain to me. truly i have yet to have someone explain to me why SOME white males are so fascinated/obsessed of black male genitalia??? I want a white male to answer this. Please give me an honest answer because I have yet to figure out why…
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Why all the negativity in the responses? In my opinion, anyone that has a problem with a white guy dating a black girl is a racist and ignorant themselves. Everyone has the right as a human being to express themselves and if two people are attracted to each other by all means they should be together. A lot of people view it as unnatural and that is so far from the truth. Like there has to be an underlying reason for being with someone other than just loving them for who they are. I’m a white guy and I don’t see any reason why I can’t be attracted to a beautiful black woman. It’s not a feeling that’s voluntary, it’s just there the same as if I was attracted to a white woman. There are many things about a lot of white women that I loathe and find unattractive. Everything balances out in the end, people are just different and have different tastes. Life is too short to hate and be negative towards others.
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peanut, I cant explain it either , its probably fear and insecutity
I think quite a few men are under the delusion that genital size makes a differance in sex, when in fact, a lot of women arnt thrilled to have to face extra large genitals in men.Sexualy insecure racists will take it to a racist leval. In fact, any one who has checked out any porn will realise that large genitals arnt just the atribute of one race.
Its like breast size , a lot of men dont really love large breasts. Its mosty a media hype.
I beleive when it comes to sex, people who do like certain things like large breasts or large genitals, should seek each other out
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@hermitte:
i did not sya all are nasty. ive met some wonderful white guys some of whom will be friends for life.
BUT Ive , ive figured the dodgy ones out! some of the white guys actually i suspect only want taste black punani and thyre not intested in relationship. its like its a forbidden fruit..
As for the most racist of the white men theyd rather date the ugliest white woman than date a gorgeous black woman…
some of the behavoir ive mentioned in my posts about fear of marriage to a BW, or being seen in public could probably be not racism buy the guys, but fear of what the racist society around them will think: friends, familly, colleagues?? yeah and thats the sort of weak coward that black women shouldnt touch..
go for a guy who gets what he wants, is brave and stands for his rights and his beliefs, girls.
if you love someone at some point you dont see colour any more..i know that i dont..
lol
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There are no white families in America hoping their white sons marry a black. If he does, he has a mental disability. That weird thing for dark meat. Phew! I don’t see any reason for whites to downgrade. It will only ruin families.
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There are no white families in America hoping their white sons marry a black.
My whte American family was quite happy about the deal.
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can someone explain to me. truly i have yet to have someone explain to me why SOME white males are so fascinated/obsessed of black male genitalia??? I want a white male to answer this. Please give me an honest answer because I have yet to figure out why…
Fanon has a real good explanation for that in Black Skin, White Masks, Peanut, which I’m sure Abagond will eventually get around to.
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Jeanine said
There are no white families in America hoping their white sons marry a black. If he does, he has a mental disability. That weird thing for dark meat. Phew! I don’t see any reason for whites to downgrade. It will only ruin families
This kind of comment is the reason I tell my female family members to stick to their own kind and if they must date out please pick a minority. White men look down on black women they dont even see us as fully human. I dont want my family to degrade themselves by dating a white man with a fetish for dark meat.
If whites feel dating blacks is a downgrade then stick to dating whites.
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This kind of comment is the reason I tell my female family members to stick to their own kind and if they must date out please pick a minority.
No doubt. I tell my neice to keep away from those Martians, Venusians and Vegans as well.
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Commenter
“In America, we have laws like affirmative action and hate crimes as well as organizations like La Raza and the NAACP to make sure that we never, ever forget about race.
The race industry makes sure that minorities always feel oppressed for the same reason the weight loss industry makes sure we always feel fat – their livelihoods depend on it.
Just follow my link (www.amren.com) for plentiful examples of multimillion dollar lawsuits centered around racial issues. Most of the money goes to the lawyers, who make quite a handsome living off of instigating racial strife.
People like Al Sharpton have no interest in “curing” America’s racism – you don’t kill the goose that lays the golden eggs. There are plenty of people out there who suggest and promote solutions to the problems of minorities, but they tend to get shouted down by the “blame whitey” and “more gubmint money” types, who claim they have the instant-fix.
American Renaissance is an example of the burgeoning white segment of the race industry, and while I wish it wasn’t necessary sometimes you have to fight fire with fire.”
Response:
I have to say comments like these are the exact reason WHY we still need organizations like NAACP and la raza. lol. Racism is just a figment on our imagination I guess? Do you know that during the Jim Crow era a good number of wp thought that things were just fine for blacks. They were blind to the fact that blacks suffered on a daily basis,despite the fact that things were clearly unequal. The whole seperate but equal facade, yeah alot of people really believed that…
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I agree with Hei, I don’t like white men. It is something about them that I don’t trust. And I also agree that white men should not be with ethnic women.
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white men to me appear to have a dishonest look to them. I guess because od what i know about them and have read about all the hell black america has gone through because of white people….all the racism against black people in america by whites….I am a black female and can not see myself with a white man . I wouldn’t want to have my nice pretty brown body next to some pale skin man….give me a handsome black man.
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white men are the greatest rapists as far as history goes……this comment is directed at peanut
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abagond, where are you? I have a question about the posts…
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To Piggyback off Peanut,
The reason why organizations like the NAACP and those alike are still around because the things that they fight for are still prevalent today. Even though that slavery was over 400 years ago and Jim Crows laws ended in the late 1970’s this blog still shows me that there is still a need for these organizations. It is because of ignorance and hatred for differences among the races that cause law suits and keep these high profile people in business. Yes Al Sharpton is loud and can be obnoxious but he gets the message across that there is still mistreatment of minorities groups. Every time I read this blog and some of the comments on here baffle in how ignorant people can be. Some of my closes friends are of different races and ethnicity’s than my own. We come from different socioeconomic levels and we still manage to have a lot of commonalities. I have to remember how blessed I am that I don’t have a distorted view of the world and I have learned from an early age to embrace other cultures. Growing up in NYC and having immigrant parents are part of the reason for this. I hope that by writing this I can help others to understand that even though our outward appearances might seem different we are all the same. We all bleed red, breathe oxygen and will eventually, so while on this earth i hope that we can gain a little more understanding of one another.
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Peanut:
Which one?
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notinterested:”I wouldn’t want to have my nice pretty brown body next to some pale skin man….give me a handsome black man.
on Wed 24 Feb 2010 at 02:08:27 notinterested
white men are the greatest rapists as far as history goes……this comment is directed at peanut”
excuse me , notinterested, there is a dna research about north west China and Mongolia that sais 1/3rd of the population has the dna of Gengis Khan in there makeup. I think he takes the cake for rape history.
Its funny, for me, a white man, being with a white woman ,as far as our skin color together ,almost seems redundant to me, I feel more comfortable with my white skin in contrast to another color of skin next to it…..but that is just me…I love color contrast and mixture..color just explodes everywhere.
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I feel more comfortable with my white skin in contrast to another color of skin next to it…..but that is just me…I love color contrast and mixture..color just explodes everywhere.
Thats just sick. Sounds like a sick dark meat fetish to me. Which is degrading and disgusting. How about caring about the person and NOT obsess over skin color contrast. SICK
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Actualy, Im finding the neurotic pointing of trembling fingers at any black white relationship the real degrading fetish
actualy, its my red hair, it really goes fantastic against brown to dark brown to black…
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…it brings out the highlights in my hair color, a real bath of color explosion ….
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Actualy, Im finding the neurotic pointing of trembling fingers at any black white relationship the real degrading fetish.
Hear, hear!
Christ, the hypocrisy expressed on this board sometimes is unbelieveable.
Now correct me if I’m wrong here – I may well be and I’m not interested in going back and digging through the Mayer post – but didn’t leaveumthinking think John Mayer was a racist because he said he DIDN’T like black women?
Now here you come along and say you LIKE the contrast, it makes you feel goos… and you’re a racist screwball.
I mean, I can agree that there’s a bit of fetishism going on there, perhaps, but that’s normal in any relationship. Mentioning that you LIKE this contrast is hardly a “fetish”.
I also wonder what leaveumthinking’s track record is with relationships. 23 years, huh? Somebody’s doing something right, I’d say.
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BTW, while I have no particular fetish for any one skin color, I DO think my wife’s is very, very pretty and I do think the contrast between us is also pretty.
And I’ll go one more further: after 10 years of living here in Rio, I get nervous when I go to SP: far too many white people there. I feel much more comfortable here in Rio.
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I agree that irony, hypocrisy and double standards are tough to swallow around here, but the positive thing is the constructive dialogue.
It is funny how people classify their preferences in who they choose to date. I was actuallly engaged to a blue eyed blond but things did not work out. I am simply attracted to beautiful women, regardless of race or ethnic background.
Living in Brazil, passing as Brazilian (even passed as bi-racial in the U.S. South, Puerto Rican in the North -despite being “white”), I eventually met my wife and married her due to cultural similarities. I say cultural similarities because Brazil is a part of my culture and when living in Brazil I was simply Brazilian. This is something my first fiance never understood.
A funny note: I remember as a teenager in Brazil that I was talking to a girl trying to get her to go out with me. We talked forever and somehow the topic came up and I told her I was actually American. She told me I was lying and just a Safado (Player for translation). She never believed me and actually left because she felt insulted that I would try to lie to her!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! crazy, right?
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Thad,
Now correct me if I’m wrong here – I may well be and I’m not interested in going back and digging through the Mayer post – but didn’t leaveumthinking think John Mayer was a racist because he said he DIDN’T like black women?
Now here you come along and say you LIKE the contrast, it makes you feel goos… and you’re a racist screwball.
Leaveumthinking didn’t say anything about B.R. being racist. You’re putting words in her mouth.
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Now correct me if I’m wrong here – I may well be and I’m not interested in going back and digging through the Mayer post – but didn’t leaveumthinking think John Mayer was a racist because he said he DIDN’T like black women?
You are wrong as usual. Please point out where I used the word racist to describe Mayer. Dont put words in my mouth. I simply challenged the question that was asked about black women throwing themselves at him. I did call him disrespectful because he did disrespect Kerry Washington and used the N word. I could care less about him liking black women or not.
I also wonder what leaveumthinking’s track record is with relationships
Thats really none of your buisness. For me to be with someone for 23 years I would have to get married at 7 years old.
@BR
You are free to say whatever you wish about your wife. I dont have a problem with IR relationship as long as it is not for the wrong reasons for example self hate or fetishizing. Your comment about skin contrast came across as a skin color fetish.
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BR
But I regect out right anyone implying that me finding making love with a black woman , enjoying the color contrast , that yes , its a turn on, is some kind of fetish
That is being uptight about sex,for sure uptight about things I like about sex
BTW This is not a pornographic blog no one wants to hear about your sex life.
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So what do we do , Natasha? Turn out the lights and dont look at each others skin color?Can you honestly tell me that you dont notice the physical differances , just as men and women , and then other physical atributes that turn you on including skin color?
Its funny to me when people say they dont see skin color in a mate. If they see it in their mate of the same color, they are noticing that, if they have an interracial partner they see it in that.
leaveumthinking, I apreciete your giving me a pass on my wife, but i would be a liar if i said I never had a one night stand with a blackwoman, and other women of differant races.
I have had a big life. When I have broken up with a woman, because I dont want to mislead another woman right away when I know I cant give to her properly ,Ill go consult a profesional woman. Ive gone through going to Asian women sometimes, sometimes to black women and sometimes to white woman.And each time I know its to satisfy my desire for what that one looked like at that time.And please, I want to emphasise I do that when I cant commit emotionaly to a woman and I dont want to be a man in a woman’s life who hurts them and lets them down.
Yes, I tried to tell you all that I was raised in a social envirnment that was black, Im not saying I went through discrimination like black people, I said I socialised and I learned how much I love black women and how much I can be attracted to them. Most woman I have had a realtionship with have been black.I am socialy and culturaly drawn to them. But I have dealt with various races of women.And I love my background and the way I have lived my life. No psychiatrist could pursuade me I have a problem. MY life has been blessed with my choices and passions and desires.
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B.R., of course I notice skin color. That does not mean I fixate on skin color, however.
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How can you have sex and not objectify physical atributes of your parnter?
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B.R., easily, very easily. Or at least it would be, if you were with them for who they were rather than something they possess.
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natasha, by the fact you are with your SO and over a period of time, you are comfortable with them , then you are fixating on physical atributes of them.
You just dont know it because you are so comfortable with them.
Being attracted to people because of thier physical atrubutes is normal and healthy, then we hope we can get into a relationship with them and find out who they are and if they accept you for who you are.
But you cant negate the physical attractions as a powerful force in being attracted in the first place.
Ill tell you another thing, I have been in many realationships with women and they have gone into interests i have and then out, changed philosophies, stopped having the same interests, and , what I can tell you, the relationships that have lasted the longest have had a deep fundimental physical attraction and passion that is the main factor that lasts when other things diminish.
I deal in reality not ideals about what relationships are supposed to be.
And I am against the grain, definitly in American society, and I love who I am.
All these so called fetish things are suposed to be bad if they keep hurting you , and, besides the everyday ups and downs and disapointments that life has dished up , I am not a hurting man with women, I love women.
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…which doesnt mean I havent been hurt by women, oh boy have i been hurt, but I am not a hurting man and hater of women, I love women, and that is the differance
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skin color is not something you posess, its not like a material posescion, its part of what you are, like your hair color , or size ,or shape.Its only one part , but it is what you are.
And, while I am like you in that I want my mate to accept me for who I am inside as well as I really want her to be attracted to me also ( dont you want that at all , natasha, dont you want your mate to think your physical atributes , exactly who you look at in the mirror is something he is attracted to?), how do you explain one night stands?
Isnt there also room for people to have consenting sex with a person who might not be the ideal mate ?Based on physical attractions?
I mean, I know life has a lot of angles out here besides ideal “we all just look for what is inside our partner”
Life is deep and mysterious
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…Natasha, I have to cut out, Ill be happy to get back to you or anyone else on here tomorow about this supject if they leave a post…
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natasha, by the fact you are with your SO and over a period of time, you are comfortable with them , then you are fixating on physical atributes of them.
Lol, no. Maybe you’re misunderstanding what is meant by the word fetish… or fixate.
Being attracted to people because of thier physical atrubutes is normal and healthy, then we hope we can get into a relationship with them and find out who they are and if they accept you for who you are.
Okay, you are definitely misunderstanding.
One can be physically attracted to a person, without fetishizing them. You can like dark skin, but focusing only or primarily on that aspect, or having that be the main reason for being with the person, is a fetish. In your comments here and elsewhere, you’ve made reference to dark skin numerous times in your reasons why you are interested in black women. In essence, you are making it not about black women as people, but about their skin tone. Most black women will be put off by this. It shouldn’t be hard to understand why.
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You are wrong as usual. Please point out where I used the word racist to describe Mayer.
OK, fine. It wasn’t you then. But I think we can say that the community here, at large, reacted to it in that way.
Or do you disagree?
Here’s the deal: B.R. says he loves the color of his wife’s skin. If he were to say he was BLACK, everyone would pat him on the back and say what a good man he is, correct?
And yet because he says he’s WHITE, well my god he must be some sort of racist fetishist!
We have Hei and Notinterested saying things like “I agree with Hei, I don’t like white men. It is something about them that I don’t trust. And I also agree that white men should not be with ethnic women.”
Not a word out of anyone’s mouth about how awful this is. And yet if Notinterested had simply changed “white” for “black” in that phrase… well my God! Racist troll! Ignorant a$$hole!
Please, people.
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natasha, free pshycological analysis is worth half the price.
You see, I think if I was married to my black wife and thinking about sex with asian girls or white girls, that would be a problem
As long as Ive been married to her , I have every right to say how much I love to see my white skin next to her brown skin.
People who dont like it here…..just dont like it, their petty analysis means absolutly nothing to me….I laugh
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B.R. that’s right, you can do what you want and say what you want. And others can comment on it, if you choose to share it here.
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Others can comment on it as long as no one goes “BAAAAAAW! S/he’s being disrespectful to me.”
Which so far, I’ve never seen B.R. do.
If B.R. were to flip race around, saying that he was black, neither you nor anyone else here would accuse him of fetishism.
But let’s say he accused you of being a sick fetishist, describing your relationship to your husband in exactly the SAME words you used to describe his to his wife.
My guess is that you or someone else would be the first person to go wail to Abagond that a nasty racist was being impolite to you.ç
I’m all for “if you can’t take it, don’t dish it out”, Natasha. I’d just like to see that rule evenly applied.
As you’ll note, I’ve never called for anyone’s censorship here.
I doubt that B.R. has either.
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“As you’ll note, I’ve never called for anyone’s censorship here”
right Thad, I guess we do have some things we agree on ahhhh
Natasha, I welcome the diolougue, why do you think I come in here?
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Natasha, just because I say it doesnt mean anything if people call my opinions a fetish doesnt mean I dont apreciete reading what people are saying.
It gives me great insight into their mindset.
It tells me a lot where some people are at about these subjects and reinforces many desicians Ive made in my life and where I choose to live and raise my kid.
And I also see people who do have more casual and loose atitudes about interracial relationships and that gives me great hope in Americas future that this racial devide slowly might close up as we go along here in our tragectory forward as Americans. Because there is a racial devide as big as a 10 lane mac truck highway and , its not the highest leval we can have for racial interaction.
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I come in here and share things about my experiances to keep this diolougue going. I know Im putting it up on a chopping block , but, I came in here to address these issues directly with people who say things like I could have a ” jungle fever degrading fetish , better call Fanon”.
I dont love putting on any internet chat room blogs ,details about my personal life, but this subject is extremly important and worth the risks to diolougue about it
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Thad,
But let’s say he accused you of being a sick fetishist, describing your relationship to your husband in exactly the SAME words you used to describe his to his wife.
My guess is that you or someone else would be the first person to go wail to Abagond that a nasty racist was being impolite to you.
I’m all for “if you can’t take it, don’t dish it out”, Natasha. I’d just like to see that rule evenly applied.
I’m beginning to think you have some difficulty differentiating commenters. Or you are purposely misrepresenting people.
I’ve never complained about anything to Abagond. And why you are assuming I ever would, I have no idea. So the above quoted comment is baseless.
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I don’t think B.R has a sick fetish for loving the contrast of his wife’s brown skin and his own white skin! There seems to be a certain standard or code words that unsuspecting, even well meaning white men may say that relegates them to the racist fetish loser side.
If he was leaving a trail of black women lovers picked on their skin color alone then I’d agree.
I believe he said he’d dated all races, but he married, ie committed and took vows with and settled down with a black woman. The common gripe of that white men use women for sex and don’t commit wouldn’t apply to this particular person.
Am not sure what the problem here is exactly.
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B.R., IMO, I don’t think you have a fetish. I think the phrase “my white skin against her black skin”, may turn some people off.
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You hit the nail on the head, merimay
I dont have a trail of black woman that I used just for sex. Ive had many relationships with black women , more than white women, but, I did mention my earlyest social experiances with women was in the black American social experiance based on having mostly black male freinds.That absolutly made me have an afinity culturaly and attraction for black women.Yes I like how you put that I am comfortable in my skin and my partners have always been comfortable in theirs.Its funny, race was the most unimportant thing extremly fast in any of the relationships I have had with black women, but, always great awarness of racism and discrimination in society and I have always been supportave of that with the woman Ive been with.
I did alude to some breif even one night stands that didnt work out based on both of the parties involved and even profesional visits based on broken relationships, that was with all the races also. Just typical trying to find ourselves and who we are sexualy growing up.I am very liberal when it comes to things like legal prostitution and a failed war on drugs so I may be at odds with other people on those issues also.
I did live with a white woman in New York for 5 years, and, she had a great apartment, so, talk about “possesions”, natasha, there is a case where hooking up with a woman with a great apartment was certainly one of the benifits that I enjoyed very much, but, hopefully not the reason I got involved (yeah right). Great apartments in New York are very deep bargaining chips in relationships….ahhhhhhhhhhhhh
Its funny, people talk about gays knowing they were gay at a very young age. I knew I was attracted to black women at a very young age also, but not just skin color but cultural attraction also. I dont find an affinity with dark peoples over in New Guieny (sp), in the pacific for example, and it just so happens that the women I married were profesional Afro diasporic dancers (the first wife being an actress and singer also ,but I fell in love watching her do Cathurine Dunham technique).
And , I beleive we all have personal ideas of who we are and what we are attracted to, I just dont totaly understand this “I dont see color at all , its just what we see inside…”
What are we walking around, a bunch of spongebobs?
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ok island girl, your comment came in as I was writing.
Maybe I do want to get this on the table and discuss it with you all. And have not held back in phrases and feelings I have
As I have said, I have no anger of bad feelings at anyone for anything they have said, I came in here to participate in this type of discusion and get my experiances on the table as an example of where Im coming from.
When I say I dont care what someone sais, it is not meant to dismiss them as much to say I am living my life and this way of thinking about me doesnt affect me. I fully support anyone having their own veiws about what they like and dont like.
I respect this discusion a lot…
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oh, ok. I have noticed that a lot of white men like darker skinned black women. Your explantion of the contrast may explain that.
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This conversation certainly has me thinking – very deeply I might add. (Call this exercise for the biggest muscle most people tend to ignore: The brain!) lol…..
I’ve shared bit of my own personal life here, and like B.R, I participate with personal experiences to not only enlighten others but also be enlightened. For example, I’ve been in relationships with women from all backgrounds. (within the United States, South America and Europe) Traveled extensively throughout my life… Country girls, City girls – you name it. I started reflecting on some of the girls I was attracted to the most, and I find curly hair is a common denominator. I never really thought about that until I read this thread. I had the sudden realization that perhaps I was most attracted to women that were a reflection of myself: Although I am white, most of my life I have been perceived as “other than white”, most likely due to the fact that I had “Black Hair” (as so many stereotypically refer). For this reason I feel I have always been MORE interested in the women I’ve dated that had curly hair. I’m sure it is more complex than that, but probably a factor.
Peace & Love to everyone…
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I think another issue is the differences in attractions between men and women. Men are visual. So, it makes sense to me that physical attributes would be very important to them. I hope any man would be turned on by the sight of his wife, but the fact that the contrasting skin tones adds a heightened level of excitement for BR doesn’t strike me as strange.
Women are only attracted to the appearance of a man for a moment. We are far more interested in everything else – those things that make him a trustworthy and stable partner. So, of course, we want our physical appearance to not be one of the most important things. In a man’s world, of course compatiblilty is important but the physical is at the top of the list of areas in which he will look for compatibility.
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First of all I say what I want when I want. If you cant handle my comments skip over them. Thats what I do to many of your long drawn out comments where you say a bunch of nothing. Second if I want to give my opinion on a comment what can you do about it. Not a damn thing.
OK, fine. It wasn’t you then. But I think we can say that the community here, at large, reacted to it in that way.
Or do you disagree?
I cant speak for the “community” but I think most commenters could care less if Mayer dated black women or not. If a commenter called him a racist it was probaly because of his use of the N and word and referred to his body part as a white supremacist.
Here’s the deal: B.R. says he loves the color of his wife’s skin. If he were to say he was BLACK, everyone would pat him on the back and say what a good man he is, correct?
If BR would have simply said he love the color of his wifes skin I would not have made the comment that I made.
This was his comment.I feel more comfortable with my white skin in contrast to another color of skin next to it…..but that is just me…I love color contrast and mixture..color just explodes everywhere.
In his comment he never said wife or SO which to me meant he like dark skin color contrast in general. In fact BR have talked about his love of darkskin, sensuality, black women, and sex quite often. Which lead me to think he might have a fetish. And yes I believe some fetishes are sick.
However later he stated that he was referring to his wife of 23 years. Which changes my opinion of the comment. Thats is WIFE he is suppose to love her including her skin. I also think its wonderful that BR and his wife have been married for so long.
And yet because he says he’s WHITE, well my god he must be some sort of racist fetishist!
When did I call BR a racist. Again stop putting words in my mouth.
We have Hei and Notinterested saying things like “I agree with Hei, I don’t like white men. It is something about them that I don’t trust. ”
Not a word out of anyone’s mouth about how awful this is.
If they dont like white men for whatever reason thats their business. Not every black woman is gonna like white men. Hell many white men have no shame when voicing their disgust and hatred for black women.
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My comment above is for Thad
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Well…I am very white and bald and pasty. But women are women first, then the other issues of race, class, etc come in after that. Saying that, before I screw up and say the wrong thing, I have met black women I would have loved to date and get to know better, but just like with white women, I am inept! Whether black, white, etc…I am just not cool!
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Leaveumthinking, I would never skip over your comments, I got to reach down deep to solidify anything I will say to you.
And one thing I want to clarify,I would never lie to you and make it think that only my wife is the reason I am attracted to women of color. I wont just hide behind her, I have mentioned its a cultural , social total background and how I was raised that is part of my makeup also.
I would never think my sexual mores and life Ive lived would stand up to the scrutiny of people looking for high examples. I am a life survivor and here now living my life as only I know how.
And , I think I wanted the oportunity to addresss exactly what some people have said, it is part ot the reason to be on here discussing this with each other.Lets lay it out on the table for each other to see, not hide it away. No one is going to change each other in these discusions, but we will have a chance to express exactly how we feel…if we want to.
So part of what I have to say is that, I beleive in a mixed culture.That is part of my makeup and lifestyle. Races mixing together with out judgement of each others motives or desires.Yes , we cant have that now, you know only too well what some of the reasons are in a racist society.
But I beleive in it, and I am in a country that is far from perfect and has many of the same problems as the USA and its own problems, but it is absolutly one of the most deeply racialy mixed countries in the world.And there are many things that feel like home to me here exactly because of that.
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B. R.
Leaveumthinking, I would never skip over your comments
That entire comment was for Thad.
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Leaveum sez…
I cant speak for the “community” but I think most commenters could care less if Mayer dated black women or not.
Well, that’s not my interpretation of the commentary. I see an awful lot of comments calling him a racist precisely because he says he doesn’t like black women. In fact, I made the point, several times, that what it seems that people are reacting to isn’t so much his statement as his use of gutter terminology. Several people went out of their way to claim that wasn’t the case: that they believed that he was racist precisely because he said he wasn’t sexually attracted to black women.
Now, here’s B.R.’s statement, Leaveum:
I feel more comfortable with my white skin in contrast to another color of skin next to it…..but that is just me…I love color contrast and mixture..color just explodes everywhere.
The criticism still stands. If her were black and saying he feels more comfortable with skin that’s the same color as his hext to it, very few people here would claim that’s fetishistic or racist. Mira for one. I for another. Maybe – MAYBE – one or two more.
I also don’t think this is necessarily fetishistic. The guy’s been living in Bahia for 23 years. On and off perhaps, but still… And married for 23 years to the same woman. Hell, he’s allowed to grow some tastes in that time, don’t you think? I’ve been in Rio for 10 years and now when I go to SP I get nervous at all the white people around me, even though I’d also lived in SP for 10 years. It’s strange.
I can relate to why he’s comfortable with what he’s familiar with.
When did I call BR a racist. Again stop putting words in my mouth.
Let’s not pick nits, Leaveum. I guy with a skin color fetish would be racist almost by definition.
If they dont like white men for whatever reason thats their business. Not every black woman is gonna like white men. Hell many white men have no shame when voicing their disgust and hatred for black women.
No doubt and far be it for me to say that they should. What I’m saying is that it’s funny how some comments are viewed as racism when articulated by a white man and not at all when articulated by a black woman.
Now, I can understand this to a certain degree, because of the way racism works: said comment by a white man is backed up to a much greater degree of social power than said comment by a black woman. So if your definition of racism is “prejudice plus power”, it’s understandable why one comment can be made with impunity and the other not.
But racism is ALSO the belief that biology rules behavior and I think people get on some very slippery ice when they want to use the only the “prejudice plus power” definition.
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I’ve noticed that a lot of the white men on here are so sexual in their comments, commenting on people’s avatars, ect. But it seems like some of the black men are not, with the exception of Abagond and some of his posts.
That’s quite interesting.
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Thad,
Instead of always falling back on “all/most of the people here say XYZ” and inevitably getting shot down when someone says s/he never said it, why don’t you address the specific comment or commenter at the time? Seems much simpler to take it up with them than with all of these hypothetical “people.” And given how frequently some of the same people comment here, I wouldn’t be surprised to find 30 comments on the same thing written by 1 person (which distorts how “popular” a given idea is).
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You think I like to flirt , islandgril?
I would be lying if I didnt say I think your picture is cute.yeah, I think the girls pictured on this blog are good looking, but , Im speaking from a distance with no ultirior motive of trying to make a pass.
By the way Thad, my wife is from Bahia (im not a big fan of Salvador, had a few bad incidents there, but have to visit the inlaws and do business sometimes up there), met her in Rio , though , I live somewhere in Brazil in a location I prefer not to reveal at this time,only because it isnt relevant.
Beleive me , people, I dont want to even hide behind my being married to my wife. She is 17 years younger than me, so , that may even ring up peoples buttons. She looks 10 years younger so you can imagine how we look together, beauty and the beast.
But Ive made it clear,most all my whole life, black women have been in it, and have always made an impresion on me.
All we can really do here is express ourselves , what we feel about this. Im sure expressing my self to get out on the table things I wanted say about this, to people in a discusion like this. No one is changing anyone.
Beleive me, being attracted to black women is the least neurotic thing about me. Fanon would be skipping over that fast to get to the good stuff.I have no doubts I am going to come up off kilter by any Daughters of the American Revolution standards.I am against the grain.
I do like to talk about sex,but, on this blog no more than an Oprah Wynfry show might talk on a given day about the subject.
But I never spend an ounce of time trying to be accepted by anyone.
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B.R.,
That wasn’t specifically directed toward you, but I’ve noticed a lot of the white men have. There was one who was even warned about it. That’s what I was thinking of. Nothing against you per se.
But sometimes it comes across sleazy in some instances. Again, not you.
Maybe this is more of a safety zone than irl.
I don’t like being called “cute”.:) That’s reserved for
puppies and babies. I appreciate the gesture, though.
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ha ha island girl, please excuse me if I came across like I was referring to you in a term that strikes you as for puppies and babies, and thank you for aprecieting the gesture.
I was afraid if I said you were beautiful, which you are, I would sound “sleazy ” or like a come on, which I absolutly dont want to convey. And cute for me is a powerful compliment, but, I really respect your wishes.
I hadnt seen other posters since I came in reffering to avr’s so I thought you were reffering to me.
I would show any one a picture of me and my wife but I dont want to volounteer that with no request.
I have to say, yes, compared to other forums I go to,like the Miami Herald forum section on Latin America, to talk about Brazil, the ladies on here with their pictures up make those other ones look pretty plain dull and boring.
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There is nothing wrong with saying a woman is beautiful. That is respectable. But some were calling people “hot” and using more sleazy phrases.
I would welcome to see a pic of you two. I think pics enhance conversation because it gives a better understanding of the person. Sometimes it puts things into perspective.
Sorry about the comment, but ‘cute’ is kinda a pet peeve. No woman wants to hear that they are cute.lol
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@islandgirl:
I agree. I didn’t mind it when I was younger, but as an adult woman, being called cute gets on my nerves. lol! I suppose it’s due to not looking my age and I’m short. Perhaps it’s a good thing, I guess.
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There’s a lot worse things someone can be called than “cute”.
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True. I’d rather be called cute than ugly. 😉
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Thank you Leigh! I didn’t intend to be anything but nice, but it kinda gets on my nerves. Somehow, I knew you would understand.
But, I guess you could look at it as a good thing.:) You probably do look a lot younger than your age. Yes, I realize that there is worse things to be called. So it’s cool.
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lol at islandgirl and leigh2014
You know what? I will except cute over sleazy mysoginist names like “hot” or “smashable”. Those rub me the wrong way and it kind of reduces me to a sexual object. It makes me feel uncomfortable.
I have to agree with you leigh that your height plays a big part in that. I’m a petite height gal and most people equate shortness to being cute. I guess because short height reminds people of children. Also yes your face plays a part in it as well. I get the “cute” label thrown at me alot. I have a very friendly face and friendly smile. That to many is cute. So majority of the time, I get cute as a compliment to my looks. I occasionally get “pretty” but never really gorgeous or beautiful. That’s very very rare lol However, its rare for me to get the ugly label.
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Oh “cute”–Luckily, I don’t hear this often, except in obviously non-sexual contexts (my mom or my best friend, for example, might say I look “cute” on a particular day). I like gorgeous, and I think I get that one the most, so that’s good. 🙂 My boyfriend is the only person who calls me beautiful on a regular basis. I think hot is overused and covers too wide a range of looks–I’ve heard some guys call everything from a 4 to a 10 “hot”, so I don’t think it holds any real weight, you know?
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@islandgirl:
“Cute” girls unite! lol! 😉
Most people are surprised when they find out my actual age. There are some sayings in my community that would be similar to “Black don’t crack” such as “Brown won’t let you down” and “Beige don’t age”. lol!
@dani:
I hear ya. My sister is considered the hot sister and throughout her life, men have come up to her calling her “hot” and “banging”. Her husband has gotten into fights because of this.
Omigosh, yeah! I’m short, but not THAT short. I’m 5’3″ btw. I also have this round, baby-ish face so I get called cute quite a bit. It does get annoying at times, but I’ll take cute over ugly any day. 🙂
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@Jasmin
That’s sweet, Jasmin. My man does the same thing. I admit he’s biased. lol!
Oh, totally. I’ve heard my guy friends commenting such and such a woman is hot, and when you see her, you were expecting some drop dead gorgeous woman. Instead, you’re left wondering, “Huh? I don’t see it.”
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“Beige don’t age”, ok Leigh, you got me with that one.lol That is too funny!
Dani, that’s true. But as a person who is called “cute” all of the time, isn’t it nice when someone does say you are beautiful?
Jasmin, yes, you are very lucky!lol I would have thought you would get that a lot because of your height and girl next door looks. It’s ok when your Mom or girlfriends say you are cute but you DEFINITLY do not want to hear that from a man. If a man says it it’s like – meh.
Leigh, what makes your sister “hot” as opposed to you?
This would be a great post actually. What classifies someone as beautiful, pretty, hot or merily cute.
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@islandgirl
I know I’m jumping into this conversation, but, yes, when someone calls you beautiful, you feel just that…BEAUTIFUL!
Jasmin, yes, you are very lucky!lol I would have thought you would get that a lot because of your height and girl next door looks. It’s ok when your Mom or girlfriends say you are cute but you DEFINITLY do not want to hear that from a man. If a man says it it’s like – meh.
Oh, well, I hear it a lot. I’ve had guy friends and other men remarking, “Your sister is hot!” or “She’s a very pretty woman”. And here I am thinking, “What am I? Chopped liver?” lol! It’s okay, though. If I was hot, I would hate to get a lot of attention like that. Besides, my sister gets a lot of the side eye from other women, and she’s the sweetest girl. They perceive her to be a threat.
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Leigh and I are the same height, though people tend to perceive me as taller from pictures, since I have a shorter torso and longer legs. It’s not until they get next to me that they realize I’m shorter than your average bear.
Oh, I love “Brown won’t let you down”! I’m going to try to work that into conversation on a regular basis. 🙂
I think “cute” from a man almost sounds patronizing, like he’s mentally giving you 2 pats on the head and one on the booty. I don’t mind when my boyfriend calls me “cute” (though he uses it to describe my personality/actions at certain times), but I wouldn’t be interested in a man who approached me with that word–it’d be kind of weird.
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@Jasmin:
You do appear taller. In fact, if I didn’t know your actual height, I would’ve mistaken you for someone a lot taller than 5’3″. What do most people tell me? I always get, “Why are you so damn short?” lol!
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Leigh,
I get that a lot. 🙂
And you (we) aren’t that short!
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Well, for sure if a woman tells me she doesnt like being called cute, I am more than happy to abide by her wishes.
For me, cute is a powerful compliment , meaning that cuteness is having an affect on me.
If I say a woman is beautiful on a forum like this, for me , its indicating an interest my wife wouldnt exactly love. She might not like cute either , come to think of it.
I love petit, too
island girl , fair enough about the pictures , if Im seeing you alls pictures, you deserve to see mine (for the first time on any forum Ive participated in,Ill bring something in next post
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ok , here is how we roll, Im kind of showing it all now about who I am, but , besides doing what I do here, Im also a serious jazz, Brazilian music, cuban music and funk hiphop drummer who cut my teeth in New York , Rio and started out in Chicago. Ive played with names some of you would recognise and produced a bunch of records.
Lets keep some fun here and Ill ask you to guess who my wife is…that our son ripping up the mic
another one:
yes, I did sneak some others on this forum to prove some points about beautiful black women in Brazil
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B.R. that’s cool! Those are my favorite music genres.
Your son sounds really good! And I’m guessing that your wife is the one in the white fringe top. Interesting family.
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“I think “cute” from a man almost sounds patronizing, like he’s mentally giving you 2 pats on the head and one on the booty.”
That’s true.lol When someone says you’re cute, they might as well be patting you on the head while saying it.
Leigh, at least you have an excuse due to your height. I’m 5’8!lol
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5’8” seems like a nice height (that’s little above 170cm, I think).
Jasmin,
I was sure you were tall! You’re right, long legs do make you appear taller.
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Thank you , island girl for your comments.We have a load of fun, Im definilty proud of him.
Im learning a lot about what females think of the word cute, and , Ill certainly think twice about using it again.
My intention of calling a woman cute was always of the highest order, but, how the person receives it is the most important thing, right?
Needless to say, you are beautiful .
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oh yeah, my wife is the girl in the middle as you called it…
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In my culture, calling a girl or a woman cute isn’t bad per se, but it’s more along the lines of “you’re nice- not too attractive or sexy, but nice”. In terms of dating, it usually means “I wouldn’t mind asking you out on a date, but only if I can’t get anything hotter. But fear not, cute girl, your lack of (sexual) hotness just means I respect you more, because I don’t think you’re a slut”.
Calling a guy “cute” is almost the same- although no man would take that as a compliment. It means “he’s nice, he’s a good person”. In terms of dating, it usually means: “He’s nice, and a good person, so I want him to be my friend. I don’t find him attractive”.
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Also, cute is translated as “sweet”.
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Islandgirl,
5’8” is a great height! Tall enough to pull off the model look but not so tall you have to be the girl who towers over the guys.
I wish I could show you all my Senior (hs) picture. I’m posed sitting on the ground with my legs extended to the left just so, and I had one guy guess I was 6 feet! I’m pretty sure he was exaggerating, but it was a nice change from being considered a little “shrimp”. 🙂
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Mira and Jasmin,
Thanks! I always wanted to be taller, but I guess you’re right. Guys are intimidated by super tall girls. It’s great that you are shorter, but look tall. Means you have long limbs (neck?). Men generally like shorter women.
Mira,
You’re spot on, as usual! That’s how I perceive cute too.
B.R.,
I went on your Youtube channel and your band is awsome! I love the kinda jazzy, world sound that you have. You sound really professional.
You’re wife is beautiful. I was able to guess her because she was more conservatively dressed than the other women, but she looks really young.
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Thanks again , island girl. Ive been around meaning Ive paid my dues
, I dont know if you recognise who Minnie Ripperton ( very brief turbulant tour breaking the Perfect Angel album), Carmen Lundy(one of the best jazz singers anywhere), Irene Cara ( actualy worked with her as a dancer , rehearsing dance combinations on the first film Fame) , and jazz names like Dr, Lonnie Smith, Walter Bishop jr,Chico Freeman, Marcus Miller, Alex Foster, Rufus Reid,Ari Brown, Sonny Sharrok,I worked with them as well as other New York names and lots of incredible Brazilian musicians you may not know and many other fantastic people that no one knows but who helped to developed me.I dont want to sound like Im bragging , I just want to give you a perspective of some of my experiance and how it affects my musical direction of my families show.
Thank you for your kind compliments about my wife. She is 43 now, and dances with a vitality that is inspiring for me. I do have to pinch myself sometimes to understand Im working with a front man inspired by James Brown, Prince, Michael Jackson, Tupac and break dancing, and Chico Science, and , an incredible Afro diasporic dancer who is the real improvising street roots deal about these dances, and they are my family.
Mira, of course , I can only say what “cute “means for me, but, it is a very sexual attraction term from me.
When I use it , it actualy comes close to meaning,” I know for a lot of reasons we wont be able to hook up now, but if things were differant, I would be tryint to hook up with you , because you are turning me on , but in a distant way that isnt meant to sound intimite…” but meant in a very respectable way to not sound sleazy
but that is only how I feel about it, and, Im learning from you all to be careful with that.
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Meh. Gimme Raul Seixas, man. 😀
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“but in a distant way…” meaning that saying a woman is cute is from a distance , because of the various reasons why they cant hook up now, not, that in another world of posible hook up ,the relationship would be distant.
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Yeah, Thad, and Paulo Russo wipes out Paralamas, its right there for anyone to compare..smile
I mean what do you listen to on your box? Suprise me, maybe it will be somebody I like….
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Right now I’m listening to Cordel do Fogo Encantado, bummed that they’ve broke up.
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Yeah, they are cool, saw them live in Recife…high octane percusion. Three members are from ArcoVerde and have big respect for Coco Raiz…I co produced Coco Raiz second cd…there are some night mare stories about the other people involved, I had to help them get control of their master tapes to be albe to press up themselves.
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BR,
I love Minnie Ripperton, how cool! 🙂
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jasmin….she was incredible. I wont lie to you, it was a tubulant tour for me, I had a conflict with the music director , he was trying to get me under his thumb in a negative way. After a while I just didnt care anymore and told him to get off my back, and that was the end.
But being on stage while she sang songs like “Loving You”, and “If I Ever Loose this Heavon” from Quncy Jones “Body Heat” record will be etched in my mind forever. It was only a couple of gigs and 3 weeks reherasal at Studio Instrument Rental, with Earth Wind and Fire next door, and Phillop Baily coming in to sit in on congas once. But, that is the music business
I cried when I heard she passed .
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Forget about The Average White Band version of If I ever Loose This Heaven, here is the difinitive version by Quincy , with Minnie and the author Lean Ware ( who would hang at some of our rehersals ):
Irene Cara was is a sweetheart also, with a voice so big and beautiful she can drop you in your tracks because she has a little petit body. I did a demo for the Fame people and she was in there doing a demo of Out Here on My Own.
She would come up and play my bongos in the dance rehersals for the Fame dancers, is it any wonder why this white boy melted into a little pile of goo next to her…she was nice people
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I love Irene Cara! She is so beautiful and has a great voice. But I don’t know much about her. I recently watched Fame for the first time and I was thinking that she should have gone MUCH further.
Now I understand why your band is so great. You have great experiences. That’s cool.:)
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Island girl, once again , thank you.Every step in the music business has been a struggle for me, but , Im still out here and I love what I do.
Oh man, Irene Cara, what an exceptional talent. She is such a good actress !!! I mean really good!! This is a perfect example of how the industry can just decide to not use someone any more , even if they are exceptional talents.And for me, some of it is tied to racism….but actors are pawns no matter what.I only knew her on that Fame set, but, Ill never forget her. Talk about a wicked crush.
Man, the Minnie live version of If I EVer Loose This Heaven is next to the Quincy one (she was on that too), on Youtube, but I watched and broke down, too deep for me.
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Your music sounds like something on those Puyumto cd’s that you see at world markets. Your struggles will pay off. Eventually the music industry will accept good quality music again. I think Sade is breaking that somewhat now with her much anticipated album that is now #1.
Hopefully they will take a cue from that.
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island girl, I dig Sade, I havent heard her most recent record.
Who is knocking me out latley is this wonderful singer/player,Esperanza Spalding
I cant get enough of this clip, I keep watching it over and over
I also am an uptempo bebopper
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Yeah, Esperanza sends chills up my spine…
If iv mentioned Irene and Minnie, I have to also mention two other fantastic singers I worked with who marked me very much. Here is Carmen Lundy, one of our greatest living jazz singers that I was lucky enough to work with in Walter Bishop Jr’s group in New York.And I used her on two of my albums
And the other singer I have to mention is the phenominal Elza Soares, who I did a video clip with and she apeared on my wife’s first cd as a special guest. She is the best, very few singers can let the band go all out like she can.For Brazilian music, she is an icon, voted singer of the milinium for Brazil by the BBC
There were many singers that I worked with who were incredible who never got recognition and stopped or are just singing in obscurity. I could never understand the cruelty of the music industry to let such incredible talents waste away.
By the way, islandgirl, you will probably classify this with “cute” ,its the old “you remind me of…” so forgive me, but your picture reminds me of a really good and drop dead beautiful singer who never made it , who I hooked up with for a minute. I was coming off the seperation of my first marriedge, so I just couldnt give to her the way I would have liked to.She had won beauty contests for jet magizine and stuff like that, but could sing her heart out.And your picture has traces of the beauty I remember a lot about her.Mabe in real life you look entirely differant, but this is just a cyber observation in cyber space.
By the way, I can tie this all in with the thread here about why so few white men marry black women. Im a white man who has married two black women, and you can see that black women mean so much more to me than any just physical attraction, althought that is there also. Black women have always been in my life and always given me deep inspiration ,culturaly,socialy and spiritualy (in the non religious sence).
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Listening to Roberto and Erasmo Carlos right now, just to piss B.R. off! 😀
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Yeah, the depths your tastes can sink to, knows no bounds, Thad bla bla bla ha
Man ,why dont you put on some Clara Nunes, Paulinho da Viola, Acione, Djavon,Bezzerra da Silva,Auriniha da Coco, Nacao Pernambuco, Ellis Regina anybody but Raul Seixes, Erasmo Carlos, Barou Vermelho, Titans, Sepulcura, RPM..Ill even give Paralamas a pass….where is Tim Maia on your box?
oh well, I guess you cant take the rock out of the midwest Wisconson white boy….
Cmon, tell me you are just jiving me, you dont really listen to those people do you?
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….saw your boy Hermano on a docu about Villa Lobos, cool, he even said exactly what I said, samba from Bahia came down, with its traditions in tact and then mingled with these other influences…..
I bet we could get along fine inspite of your attempt to inflame some kind of disagreement about music history…
Now you know Im a musician , surly you understand Hermano cant help me get on a bandstand with Luizao and understand what the heck my bass drum is suposed to do with his bass lines.
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Actually, we’re listening to Elizete right now.
he even said exactly what I said, samba from Bahia came down, with its traditions in tact and then mingled with these other influences…
OF course. It’s the “mingled with other traditions” part that the roots Bahia people get upset about, however.
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B.R.
Wow, you have a beautiful family. Your wife looks extemely young for her age. And I enjoyed your son on the microphone. He’s a goodlooking boy. Thanks for the youtube videos. I really enjoyed it. I haven’t seen alot of Brazilian dancing before. That was interesting.
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Thad, good then, Im with the mingled traditions and understanding Rio evolved samba in the most incredible and diversified way to the state of the art cutting edge it is today……finaly, we agree!!!!! ahhh Ellis
jeri, thank you very much.Im very proud of our son and his choices in life. He is seriously dedicated and studies Brazilian and American street dance traditions. He watches a documentary all the time called “Black Dance in America”, that traces black American dance innovations that were recognised around the world, like Charleston, Lindy Hop,Rhythm and Blues, James Brown and Disco (the real disco is the Philly sound) to Hip Hop. It makes an impresion on him.
And thank you for your compliment about my wife. I have always been in awe of her dance skills, and understood she is like a living photograph and documentation of the Afro Brazilian dances she does.She makes my drumming , by her example , not telling me,have to be on point if Im accampaning her.
Needless to say, Im impressed with the inner beauty of all the women posting here, and the good looking fotos of all the women also.The issues on the table are relavant and need to be talked about, kudos to abagond for attracting you all to his blog
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Ellis? No. Elizete. Ana has a serious thing for Elizete.
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I disagree to your opinions that white men are being racists toward black women because they don’t marry them as much. I am a white man and for me personally, I only like black women. Its not about any race issue, its a god given preference that I didn’t realize until later in life. My preference is accepted by my white associates but, very much angers by my black associates. The truth is that blacks in America eat drink and breath accusations that all whites are racists… which makes blacks absolutely antagonostic. I am a disabled veteran and married to a black woman. I am American first; why are you African American? When a white person says his friend is black, you counter with that if he was a friend, then why is he black? But, my wife is black and she is still my wife. My point is that if you eat drink and breath racism, then look in the collective mirror.
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I don’t think that white men who are married to white women are necesarily racist. I am married to a black man. Does that make me racist? No it doesn’t. I think that people tend to marry people in their own race. I think this is because people tend to be attracted to the people they grew up around. Or they tend to marry people in their own communities. So I wouldn’t necesarily say they are racist. I think a racist is someone who disciminates against black people, such as refusing to hire a black person or abusing a person because of the color of their skin. For instance, when white men on this blog called black women ghetto, loud, materialistic, or ugly, knowing this would hurt black women’s feelings. That is racist. I do think that white men (especially those who have been attracted to black women at some point in their lives) who refuse to acknowlege black women as potential mates are weak minded, however. Many of them are overly concerned with how their friends, family members, and the rest of society will feel. It is sad when you are so obsessed with how other people think that you are willing to compromise your own happiness. There are also white men who don’t think that black women are attractive, but that is also weak mindedness. We live in a society that promotes white beauty standards. Many people, both black and white, have accepted these standards. For instance, when the white man doesn’t notice the obviously attractive black woman walking down the street. That is weakmindedness. Black women should concern themselves with strong men, those who are independent minded. I think strong men are very attractive, regardless of their race.
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Personally I would never date a white man because of the experienced I endured at Normal, Il. They all are racist to me. they imitate how they think blacks act and it is irritating. Some of them are nice guys, but you can definitly tell how they’re family is at home.
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“For instance, when white men on this blog called black women ghetto, loud, materialistic, or ugly, knowing this would hurt black women’s feelings. That is racist. I do think that white men (especially those who have been attracted to black women at some point in their lives) who refuse to acknowlege black women as potential mates are weak minded, however. Many of them are overly concerned with how their friends, family members, and the rest of society will feel….”
good point jerri, gary, you should not let anyone at work influence you on what a general population would feel, just be with your wife, what she thinks is the only opinion that matters
Elizete, oh yeah, great singer, Thad, they show snippets on her past tv show with all the great singers of the time on rede Record
Kamisha …hahahaha Normal Ill, I dont blame you (are you down there Jasmin? I see you are in college in Illinois on your blog) , St Louis, parts of Illinois and Indiana have some really racist backgrounds..those white boys just dont know how to act…
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Kamisha – do you know me? I went to ILLINOIS STATE UNIVERSITY at Normal, IL.
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The problem you get in Illinois is that many of students come from small rural towns that are not exposed to the level of diversity you would find in Chicago.
My apologies also. I did not realize you were a student there still. (I participated heaveily in the Mult-Cultural Institute on Campus) Is “Leonard” still there? He was running it at the time.
I’ve got stories to tell you!!! I was there when a race riot almost broke out. A fight started between a black guy and white guy but it had nothing to do with race, then all hell started breaking loose. IT WAS CRAZY. (Long story)
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Also though – Chicago is still pretty divided. Even in the highschools you find your “racial clicks”.
And so the same trend occurs at the University level. I went to college after the Military (Army) and could not believe I was taking a step backwards into something I equated as the “Twilight Zone”.
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BR,
No, I go to school in IN, though I’m from Chicago (and I know quite a few people at ISU–I hear it’s racist down there).
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Jasmin – ( I can feel the negative vibes coming my way already ) It is pretty racist at ISU, but I think it is a reflection of Illinois/Mid-West society – including Chicago. Having studied at ISU I can attest to the fact that there are a lot of “exclusive” Black only events that do not encourage Race relations. Almost like a purposeful Black separatist movement. (Hey, I’m all about pride and heritage. I support that 100%!!!)
My opinion, there is definitely an “anti-white” vibe at the University. It is a beast that feeds itself. It is sad. I recently returned with my wife for the Sweet Corn festival to show her the quad, etc… (a weekend getaway) Several of the “Blacks” threw looks of disgust our ways. (keep in mind no tan and shaved head changes my appearance)
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By the way, the picture you see here is me age 25 at ISU!!!
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ColorofLuv,
You went to Illinois State? It’s a freaking small world. My best friend went there. Youn are right, she said that ISU was very serperaist.
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Color of Luv,
Excuse my ignorance if you’ve already introduced yourself before on the blog, but where are you from and what is your ethnic background again?
The Midwest is the most segregated region in the U.S. Everyone I’ve known who derived from a Midwestern state pretty much confirms this. So, the open racial tension on college campuses on there doesn’t surprise me one bit.
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Chicago is know for being very seperatist. I read or heard that Dr. King said that it was the most segregated places he had ever been.
From what I hear, things are still basically the same. I was born there with a lot of family there and when I visit, I see that it still the Midwest.
Colorofluv,
Sweet Corn Fest?lol Sound like the Pork or Strawberry fest that we have here in Indiana.
Negativity is no good, no matter the source.
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To mynameismyname,
I’m white and background is Irish/German (for the most part with some unknown possibilities in the background.)
Nobody in my family has ever passed for “Black or Mixed”, BUT I HAVE. (Long story short, go to “Black Women’s hair forum, LOL I cannot pass anymore because what so many considered a tell tale sign -“my hair” – is no longer there! lol)
I changed my avatar to show a more current pic of me and my wife (Brazilian of mixed heritage).
Midwest is separatist on both sides, Black & White. I have roots in the Midwest but have a diverse background. Keep in mind I was in the ARMY for 4 years. You get racism there, but by and large I would say in that environment 90% of us follow the mindset of “we’re brothers”. Especially, the longer you’re in. You always get that Sh@! out of the way in Basic Training and AIT.
I got out of the Army and started to put myself through college. When I saw the polarization between blacks and whites at ISU I literally felt like I was in an episode of the Twilight Zone!!!
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not sure when the avatar will change. (maybe Gravatar is having a problem.)
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It can take a while.
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jeri says,
For instance, when white men on this blog called black women ghetto, loud, materialistic, or ugly, knowing this would hurt black women’s feelings. That is racist. I do think that white men (especially those who have been attracted to black women at some point in their lives) who refuse to acknowlege black women as potential mates are weak minded, however. Many of them are overly concerned with how their friends, family members, and the rest of society will feel. It is sad when you are so obsessed with how other people think that you are willing to compromise your own happiness. There are also white men who don’t think that black women are attractive, but that is also weak mindedness. We live in a society that promotes white beauty standards. Many people, both black and white, have accepted these standards. For instance, when the white man doesn’t notice the obviously attractive black woman walking down the street. That is weakmindedness.
laromana says,
jeri,
Thanks for your EXCELLENT analysis of ANTI-BW COWARDICE and ANTI-BW RACISM. Unfortunately, in my lifetime I (and MANY other BW) have experienced both of these types of ANTI-BW attitudes/actions from most American WM/NON-BM. I hope that some day MORE BW will be able to gain control over American cultural/media sources, DESTROY ANTI-BW LIE/MYTHS/STEREOTYPES, and bring about a MAJOR POSITIVE transformation of BW’s image.
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islandgirl and jasmin from Chicago,ahhh that is where I am from, and moved to New York (your island, island girl) when I was 28, at 36 to Brazil.
Chicago has got segragationist issues. Sure was much worse when I was there, .It also has a huge vibrant black American comminity. I was raised in Evanston , actualy and lived in Hyde Park (my favorite neighborhood there ) for a few years, then New Town.All those neihborhoods were integrated.But there were some white ethnic neihborhoods that were deeply segratated
I always look for the people who gravitate to the middle and not to the extremse, and Chicago is such a big city that you can find middle ground with anyone you want to.
What I dont like about Chicago is the hiarcial second city mentality…and that is cold as all heck!! Musicians are more concerned that there are 300 municipled for wedding gigs than actualy trying to get your stuff out there.
Must be the corn feilds in the midwest that affect everybody down there.Got to be the fumes…
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People have a right to love whom ever they choose.I have dated a white man and a black man in my lifetime.I am now married to a black man.They are both very good men. I think people should do what makes them happy.If that is black white or other that is your option.As far as a black man marring a white women if they love each other more power to them. It is not the color of a person’s skin that I feel is important but how big is there heart.Do what is right for you as a person and yu won’t go wrong and even if you do it was your choice no someone else’s.
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It’s a lot of Chicago people on here. I’m from Chicago as well. Maybe that’s why Jasmin and islandgirl didn’t experience so much colorism. I mean there are Black people there who have said some crazy stuff that were based on colorism out here but not to the degree I’ve heard others expressed from their neck of the woods. I will admit that the Black men out here tend to gravitate towards more body discrimination. They like they girls with the thick body shapes and tend to be quite harsh on girls who are thin and fat.
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Dani,
Maybe the reason why colorism among black folks isn’t out of control in Chi Town is because the city is so segregated. The folks may tend to “stick together” instead of letting something trivial like physical appearance get in the way of that.
Colorism among black folks wasn’t really too hectic in CT, either. I think the lack of light skinned blacks may have had something to do with that. Plus, while blacks were plentiful in CT, they were far out numbered by whites. That may have played a part too.
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I wonder if there is any underlying cause for this “coincidence”: More Illinois/Midwest/Chicagoans here than say East Coast or West Coast???
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I’m loving the Chicago vibe (shoutout to the South Side!) 🙂
Islandgirl and Dani, I’m betting we know some of the same people given how “small” the city can feel at times. ITA that guys are on “thick” autopilot here–I would say there were enough light-skinned people around when I was growing up for there to be a lot of colorism. Now I see some with younger boys (the kids my sisters go to school with), but they seem to get it from the media–most video girls are light-skinned and that’s what they are watching, though they have trouble replicating it in real life since light-skinned Blacks are relatively rare.
BR, my mom is from Hyde Park! (And so is the President.) I have a friend at ISU (she’s White) who says that Blacks keep to themselves because they tend to get hassled a lot by campus security.
I didn’t notice how segregated Chicago was growing up, probably because we never ventured far from the South Side. (I grew up in a mixed community that has grown “Blacker” but still has a significant White population, with a growing influx of Latinos.) It wasn’t until I went to high school and we had sporting events against “North Siders” that I saw a difference.
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I visit Chicago several times a year. I have a friend whose husband was transferred there. I stay in Rogers Park which is supposed to be one of the most ‘diverse’ neighbourhoods in the States. I to have noticed when there the segregation mentioned by some of the posters. I have been all over Chicago via the public transit(which is good by the way). With that being said, I think you Yanks should commend me for keeping your economy afloat whilst there! See if you can get me discounts when I go again!
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All right , Dani, another Chicago native.Fantastic, and , I like that you say maybe in Chicago there is less emphasis on colourism, because Islandgirl mentioned she didnt experiance much (she didnt say she didnt understand it) , and was critisized for it. Then I found out she was from Chicago, and, the truth is, it wasnt as big an issue where I was raised either.Not that it didnt exist, but, it seems its not as much in force as other areas of the country.So Im not surprised she said that.
Yeah, Jasmin, Hyde Park is cool , I have to admit, I had moved to Rio after 8 years in New York when the Bears won the super bowl, so, I missed a lot of the glory of being in Chicago, for that, the whole Michael Jordan years,the Oprah rise, and the Obama campain. I just remember having some very disapointing afternoons as Walter Peyton took the team on his back and they would loose in the playoffs…ha ha
Herneath, I actualy lived the first couple of my years in Rogers Park before my family moved to Evanston, and then spent the last couple of months of my Chicago life there in Rogers Park.
My deepest apologies , everyone from Chicago, Im glad I left ahhhhhhhhh sometimes you just got to know what places you live are for you and which are not going to work for you…..lots of great memories about other things there, heck, I paid a lot of dues there, my blood sweat and tears and life dues are flowing on the streets there….I think Chicago got enough chunks out of me ha ha ha
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B.R., Jasmin and Dani,
Chicago is a great midwestern city, but I prefer NYC. The enviornment seems more open and free thinking. I was born in Chicago and visit family, but raised in Indiana.
In Indiana, it wasn’t too much of an issue, I don’t think. Maybe it is more of the South.
B.R., you’re right. I don’t experience much colorism. And thank you! We have to remember that colorism goes both ways. Lighter skinned blacks may experience it just as much as and vice versa. One is just as wrong as the other. Your son is a very handsome lighter skinned guy, so he may have problems as well. Hopefully not. I’m not sure if it effects guys in such a way.
Dani,
I agree! I think body-ism is more of a problem with men than colorism. Guys can be brutal when it comes to their preference in body type.
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islandgirl said:
Dani,
I agree! I think body-ism is more of a problem with men than colorism. Guys can be brutal when it comes to their preference in body type.
I wouldn’t say that! lol I think it sometimes intersect.
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Believe it or not, “colorism” also affects whites. Remember, we live America and people tend to try and classify people: Greek communities, Italian communities, etc…. (Ex: are you Sicilian? NO!!!!!!!! I’m from NORTHERN Italy.)
Even in the caribbean. I have a Puerto Rican friend. He is white. His family “jokingly” calls him moreno because he can get very dark. (He would never pass for black by the way because of his stereotypical “european features”.
You even here Italians: I’m Italian! Wait, I’m Sicilian… I’m Northern Italian,
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Islandgirl, thanks for the comments about my son, and, I agree , it can go both ways.
You are right about him being able to be a chameleon, Ive seen him jump back and forth about his origins and nationality .
If someone cuts down Brazilians, he is Brazilian, if someone cuts down Americans, he is American, identifies with his black side very much (with out blood lines that are black American), and sometimes his Indian, but not his white Scotch Irish , English , German, Portugues side ha ha ha.
I did raise him in Brazil to not have to receive as much colorism American style in his early years (not that Brazil doesnt have it, it does). At this point, I know he could negociate the terrain as an adult.
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Prejudice because of skin tone is very apparent in our society in the U.S. It is hilarious some of the comments that I get. I am of a Caribbean background and am 1st generation American so if I listed my ancestry we would have to start another blog. I am of a lighter complexion but it is very evident that I am “black”. Then I tell people that my mom was born in England, I have gotten responses of “You are lying,” or my favorite “so that is why you have white facial features because your mother is white.” I always correct them and say both of my parents are black.
What does it matter? I’m not an alien I just have a pretty diverse background, which most people of color do anyway.
We need to not be so hung up on color and trying to classify people. People need to learn to exist with each other without trying to figure out what makes them different from you. The fact is that what actually makes up your completion is only one tenth of a percent in your DNA. It always drives me up a wall when people try to figure out my ethnicity by just looking at me. 90% of the time you will be wrong so just don’t worry about it. We all have to remember that we are all people and everything else comes after.
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Islandgirl,
New York’s not for me–I plan to move to SF, where hopefully the existence of more than just Black and White (meaning other “brown” people) will make a difference. So far I love the city! 🙂
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Santa Fe or San Francisco, Jasmin ?
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Good points , Nikki67
Islandgril, New York looks good on you…
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^^^
San Francisco is a ridicously expensive to live in. It’s almost absurd how high everything is! LOL.
There is no city in the world like New York City.
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^^^
San Francisco is a ridiculously expensive city to live in. It’s almost how high everything is! LOL.
There is no city in the world like New York City!
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^^^
San Francisco is a ridiculously expensive city to live in. It’s almost absurd how high everything is there! LOL.
There is no city in the world like New York City!
Sorry for the last two typo-ridden versions of this post!
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Jasmin,
I’ve heard that SF is a great city. Very progressive. I wish you well with that!
Myname,
You’re right! There is no city like NYC. It’s like you experience all different cultures of the world just by the people there.
B.R.,
Thanks! I actually lived there and loved it! I plan to move back soon.
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Well, Islandgirl, once you spend some time in New York, its always in you. I lived there 8 years, and left in 86, and pass through sometimes anualy for business (shows or production). But nobody can tell me I am not a “New Yorker” , even though I havent lived there for 24 years.
One year in New York is like 3 anywhere else.
I was there when it was really wild and wholly. You learn a lot of stuff there in an excelerated way. You learn how to look through people and there is a business frankness that is welcome sometimes :you make a business call to try to move your product, ” are you buying or selling? you are selling? bye bye..(the phone hangs up)”
I dont know if I would move back, but, its in me, you learn life lessons in New York, but I discovered I have a big love to be on a beach.
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Ill tell you the number 1 reason why wm and bw dont get married that much- its the same reason why only 3 percent of all maried couples are interracial. Its because we, the races, are not exposed to one another that much, as a society. More or less, we occupy different neiborhoods, schools, churches, etc. and media\entertainment, etc plays off that. Media will reinforce the thought that we might be different in too many ways to get along with eachother, or date one another. After all, if you cant get to know someone, how are you going to marry them? Its a sad state in modern America, where we more or less believe we live in different worlds. This keeps us drawing boundaries, making labels, ” oh, she\hes from the ‘hood’ you shouldnt date them’ or “hes/shes a snobby suburbian, dont go near them” its all a facade. Yes, we as humans naturally lean towards those like us, so, i myself have dated women [all races] who had a great sence of humor, and were intelligent\educated. So, this is probly why i havent dated what some might label a ‘ghetto’ woman, but i also havent dated white trailor trash women either.
Saying one race acts a certain way and another doesnt is the definition of racism. I think, for me, it has more to do with your attitude and understanding of things. Also, these ‘ghetto’ or ‘white trash’ women i mentioned would never seem as though they would like me. Simple people occupy thier minds with simple thoughts. Some people care more about money and extremely good looks rather than honesty, humanity, humor, and having personality. Ive met some of the most gorgeous women in my life, but they have the personality, as south park onces put it ‘of a wet carrot’.
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I like some of the things you are saying, White…
The problem , White, is “ghetto” has been pumped up in the media to huge fake preportions.
“The ghetto” has a huge range of people. You are refering to a stereotype created by the media.
My first wife was from the deep ghetto in Chicago, the now defunct Robert Taylor Homes projects. She had nothing like what the media tries to project as “ghetto”. She was a strong woman, but, didnt pose with some charactorisations that pass for what a “ghetto” woman is suposed to be like.
There are wonderful women from any neighborhood you could think of that would be labled “ghetto”, hard working women, very artistic women, very refined women , religious women, women trying to raise kids, all kinds.
We all have to learn to get passed the stereotypes of people to find real people.
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WOW, im only 19 years old and im appaled of how ppl think.im black or african american and honestly i dnt know wht the correct term to use is.ppl get offended over evrythng now a days. i just wanna be classified as an american female not a black african AMERICAN.i go to an hbcu and ppl actually choose to go here unlike myself. they “wanted to be around ppl they were confrontable with”.the only reason i go to a hbcu is because its cheaper than any other school the level of education is subpar and the administators make rediculious rules to compensate some how for their lack there of! i feel my intellience is being insulted evryday i wake up and go to class. im also feel they are training us to be good BLACK business ppl.evrythng involves race idunderstand the substance this holds honestly its a recession and if you can benefit the company better than other employee you have a job!
this whole dating thing truely is simple.no one is willing to go outside their confort zone. one of my friend said ” she didnt think she would be strong enough to date a white man” but i guess she would be strong enough to deal with the blacks man ego abuse deciet unemployment and disease.not saying thats wht black men are about but just pointing out that it is easy for her to have love for a black man than a white man who just might be the love of her life.maybe this is why the divorce rate is so high b/c ppl are not willing to find the right person beyond their prejudices.
and i just wanted to say females in general are money hungry loud manipulating and aggressive not just bl;ack women also black men have small dicks too.i wish ppl would stop basing everything on race and just find a commonality.
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To B.R. –
yes, you are correct. This is what i tryed to say above, by placing the word ghetto in quotations, as to show it is a term that supposedly means something, but is meaningless, as people are individuals, and have traits of their own, not destined by race\location etc. But, i did state that education does in fact affect ones traits, and yes, there are educated people in ‘ghettos’ and trailor parks, but we are taught not to believe so. so, yes, i agree.
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I’m late on this thread! I’m in San Fran right now visiting my boyfriend, and I love the city (though it is very expensive)! I plan to teach here after graduating. 🙂
I have family in NYC, and I’ve never liked it! I couldn’t live there (permanently, at least).
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Funny, it was only in New York that I got treated like a decent intelligent educated human being worth marrying by a white man, an Italian-American. I’m Native American not “black” but because I have dark skin most men treat me like black and as you say, ignore me. I grew up “white” suburban college prep and educated. And assuming that I should have my pick of any place I wanted to live and any school I wanted to teach Math or Science in, and also any pick of the kind of men who shared my upbringing, religion (Anglo-Catholic) and way of life. That would be whites. I’ve had New Yorkers, men no less, look at me and tell me that as a Science and Math major I should be able to “write my own ticket” as to which schools in which cities I wanted to teach. Not just be stuck with the Bronx being the only borough that’s desperate enough to hire “even me” for Science and math because the South Bronx is so heavily Puerto Rican and that’s what I “pass for,” and that would be the reason. That even the science and math teaching profession should see me as a science/math person first and skin color second.
But he’s right. Men do see me skin color first, everything else last if at all. Doesn’t matter that I like classical music, ice skating, took Latin in high school, none of that matters because all anyone sees is skin color first and then IF they’re still listening to the rest, they act surprised if they don’t outright refuse to believe me.
My only quibble is that I found New York and to a much lesser extent Boston the only places where I got the time of day from a white man. The West, California especially, and of course the damn South, forget it. I get schlepped in with blacks whom I have nothing in common with.
And as Native American I have no interest whatsoever in Black men. Who ever said that all dark-skinned women wanted to marry Black men – whose fantasy world are they living in?!
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If you plan to teach in SF after graduating, I hope it’s either Science or Math because when I left (I got hired by SFUSD myself) they weren’t hiring anything else.
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Oh, and he’s right about white men not wanting their genetic material “polluted” with brown skin. Indian, dark-Mexican, Puerto Rican, Cuban, anything they can call “black.”
That’s why I focus on trying to marry men who want to marry for some other reason. Marriages of convenience. Who knows, my parents stayed together 35 years in a marriage of convenience.
I’d take a marriage because they were gay and wanted to pretend they weren’t; or military ones (people wanting the spousal benefit of being able to move into married people’s housing or other benefits), US or Canadian permanent resident status, etc. That way they don’t have to worry that my skin colour might pollute the kids. I know that’s what factors first in their minds. They don’t want their kids looking like me.
BTW the guy I almost-married in New York did keep saying he wanted kids with me. I don’t. That’s part of what our problem was.
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Pamela,
I’ll be doing bilingual education, but I hope to start in high school (I’m an undergrad now).
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Sorry, that probably didn’t make sense. What I meant is that I’m not going directly into teaching at the college level since I will just be graduating with a Bachelor’s, hence why my preference (of K-12) is high school.
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Because some Black girls play hard to get especially towards or to White men or those Mestizos who are half Mongolian and half Indo European. This is another reason why White men do not or really cannot get into boyfriend-girlfriend relationship. So blacks women need to spread the word and let all the sistuhs know that they need to stop putting up a iron wall and playing so damn hard to get to non Black men.
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I am a white woman who has been hounded by black men for years. I am not blonde, I am not a model nor a stripper, and I absolutely don’t invite that kind of behavior. This is just not comfortable for me, especially since many ‘invitations’ would occur at the office and/or when I was totally not prepared to deal with it. Imagine trying to compose yourself before you have to chair a meeting, just after your boss has said something totally inappropriate to you. (No, I didn’t waste my time reporting that to the EEOC.)
A good friend of mine works with many black men, and we had a conversation about this. I asked him why so many black men were interested in white women. He told me that he had asked some of his co-workers the same question, and they told him that they didn’t like the attitude of the black women with whom they had been in contact. They didn’t like the bossiness, they didn’t like the obsession with materialistic things – hair weaves, nails, clothes, shoes, etc. From what he told me, it seemed more like a ‘maintenance’ issue than anything else. Nobody wants to be in a relationship where the other party is basically screaming that it’s all about THEM.
My cousin, who is white, married a black man whom she had known since high school. Our family accepted him, we thought he was a great guy, but the women in his family were horribly hateful towards my cousin. He had married the woman of his dreams, but they didn’t care. They finally let up with their nastiness when she bore him two adorable children.
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while it may be true that white men are racist towards marrying a black woman i think that black women are actually not interested in white men not for marriage anyway black women are very complex white men cant satisfy our needs only a black man can begin to come close and even he’s not good enough for us anymore. Reason that we dont see white men /black women marriages at as high a ratio as black men/ white women marriages is because black women are not interested in or actively seeking a white man. In Atlanta area we have ceased in seeking men all together but thats another topic.
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Jadajing,
A good friend of mine works with many black men, and we had a conversation about this. I asked him why so many black men were interested in white women. He told me that he had asked some of his co-workers the same question, and they told him that they didn’t like the attitude of the black women with whom they had been in contact. They didn’t like the bossiness, they didn’t like the obsession with materialistic things – hair weaves, nails, clothes, shoes, etc. From what he told me, it seemed more like a ‘maintenance’ issue than anything else.
These sort of comments make no sense whatsoever. White women work to upkeep their hair (dyes, cuts, etc) and nails, and shop just as much as any woman. Materialism and consumerism are a part of American culture.
angelica tillis,
Reason that we dont see white men /black women marriages at as high a ratio as black men/ white women marriages is because black women are not interested in or actively seeking a white man.
Yes, it is a lack of interest from both sides, rfom what I can tell. See this discussion:
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*from
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I talked about this here
http://www.ankhesen-mie.net/2010/03/thing-about-black-women-and-interracial.html
and here
http://www.ankhesen-mie.net/2010/03/why-preference-is-racist-mot-du-jour.html
The first one naturally got more attention, and women – white and non-white had some interesting things to say. Ignore that guy on there.
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^Great stuff, Ankhesen! I skimmed through the first post. I’ll thoroughly read and digest both later, when I have more time.
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Natasha,
I concur. Materialism and consumerism is just the American way. It’s just that black women and white women spend their money on different things.
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Yeah, I checked it out ,Ankhesen, nice to know you are an Ankhesenoligist….
Lots to digest and think about there
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islandgirl, definitely. Black women might spend more overall on hair care, but white women probably spend more on skin care and make-up. Amount spent on nails and clothes is probably equal. The only difference is the media likes to dissect the habits and behaviors of black women, while never discussing white women.
To be honest, I’ve never gotten my nails professionally done, and never worn a weave. I do have naturally long nails and hair, but even if I didn’t, I wouldn’t go to the hair or nail salon that often. I couldn’t fit it into my schedule between work, free time, and time spent with my SO, and I’m too cheap, lol. I just file my nails every week or so, and set my hair at night.
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Natasha,
Same here. I rarely get my nails done and have only worn weave for shows (and take them out when the show’s is finished), ect. Not in everyday life. Very low maintence. Also, I am one of few women who don’t enjoy sitting in the salon.
You’re right. Different women spend money on different things. White women skin care, tanning, color ect. Black women, hair and nails, mainly.
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the WORLD is a melting pot – we should all be assimilating (no necessarily conforming.) i believe that there is someone for everybody with or without the ad-on’s. in itself, it does not make a woman any more or less superficial or materialistic to pamper herself or enhance and accentuate things that make her feel and look pretty. to some degree we all do it (men and women/white and black, etc.)
it appears that the discussion has been misguided a bit from the real issue at hand. and that is: Why so few white men marry black women?
i genuinely believe that the answer(s) to this age old question is as unique as the individuals it applies to.
peripheral issues sometimes confuse matters more than shedding light on them. i’d really like to discuss what strengths the opposites like most about each other and build on that.
BTW, i am a black woman that happens to have a NATURAL attraction to white men as they have been to me. i’ve not had to pretend to be anything other than myself in their company. i have been fortunate and unfortunate in love with one man did not entertain stupidity…he said that he was flattered that i would consider him. at times we disagreed about things which in any relationship could cause an end…but we often discussed the idea of having a family and doing great things together. COLOR WAS NEVER A PROBLEM!
his manliness in every way man me happy to be a woman. we’re no lovers anymore, but we are still friends.
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sorry about the typos folks.
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White women skin care, tanning, color ect.
You can either go the “be pretty when you’re young” route, and spend time on tanning, or you can go the “preserve my skin so it won’t be too wrinkled by the time I’m middle aged” route, and spend your money on sunscreen.
And then a lot of white women get perms to give their hair any degree of wave, or are bottle blonde. Plus there’s the whole effort involved in trying to stay thin. You’re right; I doubt either race is that much lower maintenance than the other.
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that’s the thing with self-confidence and appeal…if a person doesn’t feel attractive or secure then they wont exude the confidence they will need in order to attract the right kind of person. now being self-absorbed is something completely different. no one likes that.
as a BW i don’t constantly have to remind anyone that i’m happy/secure with my blackness or femininity or that i am different from the “Ghetto Girls” or that i’m am NOT less than any WW on the planet. the men that like me discern that almost immediately. progressing to MARRIAGE depends on so much else and for some WM/BW it’s in there ability or inability to face social iniquities together.
attraction: there are so many degrees and levels that it is difficult to put it in a tiny little nutshell. the same qualities that i find attractive in WM are also just as abundant in their Black counterparts. i think love & marriage are a gamble and there are fears that plague even toughest of men who are or could be interested in BW.
but i say to those WM, those of you who are attracted to us – Defend the Honor of the Women You Love, Like & Adore. Take the Lead in Taking a Stand and we will back you up. whether they disagree or not they will respect you and have to accept your decision. change will not take place unless we insist. loving a woman (period) is NOT TABOO! just like us you can re-educate the world. teach others to see our beauty from your perspective. it won’t take much to persuade them when you are convinced yourself. ladies can do the same!
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I hear you, Teacup, I like what you are saying.
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After reading everyones comments, I found each very interesting. If I may be allowed to express my opinion, it appears that every comment posted is a direct reflection of individual experiences. Some are coming straight from hip. Others are more articulate and emotionally dynamic. Reflecting on my own experiences, I am somewhere in the middle. Here is what I mean. Most white american males have a social value system that is understood by their group or tribe. Currently, there is no comparitor available as of yet that correctly describes where a black female fits in their tribal or group description. Therefore, on a subconscious level it may just turn out that white males see black females as being exotic, attractive, strong, demanding and independant. This subconscious accessment might be fueled by how blacks have had their cultural perception delivered to the world as a whole. All of us tend to forget that the our reality is constantly being redefined by new and different perceptions created and projected by the media, advertisements, books,movies etc… As everyone knows, it has not been very flattering. As far as the black female is concerned, she may need to act more like forbidden fruit thereby making her even more attractive to all men of any racially different group. A lot also depends upon ones socio economic standing. If black women that white men meet and date seem to be aggressive, demanding etc… it may have something to do with their inability in the past and present to have access to the american dream. Over the past 15 years I have watched a somewhat confusing social developement unfold itself in our society. Professional Atheletes who happen to be black are finding it very difficult to avoid being pursued by white, latino, european,italian,french etc… women. I wonder why that is such a problem ? I think we all know exactly why. Lets reverse the senerio. Black Professional women who have made it, are also being pursued by white males. No dought why. It seems, when it comes to romance and love and marriage, that ever present reality of money keeps raising its ugly head in spite of race. The lesson here is when money is the objective, race is no longer a problem. So black women and white men start identifying why and for what reasons you want that special somebody in your life. Be honest enough to discuss what it is that you want from a relationship on the very first date. Remove all doubt and go from there. To many times in the past I have failed to ask the 2 most important questions in any relationship on the very first date. They are “What is it that you want for yourself” and “What is it that you want from me.” Scarry questions huh. If you are the least bit honest with yourself and the person that you are dating then these are the 2 most important questions that you could ask anybody that you think you might want to be with. If you don’t ask these questions then you are just wasting their time and your time. The relationship is on a nose dive to the ground on the very first date. For God’s sake, be honest.
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This is a response to Pamela in reference to her Sunday March 21st, 2010 reply.
Wow, that was really heart felt. I feel your pain. it must be hard to be mistaken for something that you are not. It kind of shows me how all people are percieved in this country, not by the content of their character but by the color of their skin. I am sorry about that. I had somewhat the same problem and this is how I learned to master my situation. One day about 10 years ago, I was about 42 or 43 and quite tired of observing the color line presented to me by our society here in america. I started to project an image of myself as a successful and prosperous guy. Well low and behold, within a few weeks people started to respond to me totally different. Especially women. I started to say to myself. I am an incredibly decent person inside and out. I kept saying this and other good things about myself for the next 30 days. Incredibly, people started to respond to me exactly the same way. Well, I knew something really cool was happening to me and continued up to today. What I learned was that people will see you exactly as you project to them what it is that they find attractive in themselves. Humbly, I have found that women of every shape size and race respond to me exactly as I wish them to. Every woman I meet likes me almost immediately. The reason seems to be that I project an image of what it is that she likes about a man. Every woman I meet see’s me as exactly what it is that she likes about men, because I project that image to her through the way that I am thinking about her. I could care less what race she is, I make extra sure that I am thinking that she is a very nice woman and deserves to be treated like a queen. This technique works on women and men from the very lowest stations in life to the very highest. Try something for me if you will engage me for a moment. The very next time that you meet someone, try and think that they deserve your utmost attention and watch what happens. When I meet people the color of their skin means absolutely nothing to me. I control the outcome of what they are thinking, just by the thoughts that are in my head. Even the most miserable and unhappy person finds it very hard to resist what I am thinking when I meet them. I have learned to be very persuasive with my thoughts. If I can do it than anyone can.
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Reginald, you sound like a very charming and sincere man. thank you for being positive and reassuring with your message. empathy is a nice quality to have. compliments to you!
dear Pamela,
please know that the following is meant with all due respect. so please try not to take any offense…i was taught that “Out of the Heart’s Abundance, the Mouth Speak”
the embittered tone of your words on March 21, 2010 gives the impression that you are insulted when mistakenly identified as a BLACK WOMAN. the essence of your comments left no doubt that you are so very injured by the stigmas of your Rich Skin Color, especially as it so closely resembles something that non-black men “seem” to be disinterested in. CLEARLY you have been misjudged. but my question to you is this: are you more offended that they aren’t even aware that you are Native American -or- that they perhaps see you as something LESS in your personal estimation (i.e., a BW?)
it is quite apparent that you are not flattered by the notion of being confused with a BW, as if it would be such a bad thing. (i’m just going to assume for argument sake that it is a compliment to BW that you should be mistaken as one of us.) perhaps you’ve just been unlucky in love, narrowly missed the opportunity to meet the Mr. Right or maybe it’s what Reginald was really saying, ‘That Attitude.’ while you may have a lot of attributes that make you a potentially eligible match your odds wont increase when negativity dominates your personality. not all white men see things the way you’ve described and even the ones that might choose to marry and raise family’s with white women are all prejudice either.
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re: Pamela’s previous comment…
“My only quibble is that I found New York and to a much lesser extent Boston the only places where I got the time of day from a white man. The West, California especially, and of course the damn South, forget it. I get schlepped in with blacks whom I have nothing in common with.
And as Native American I have no interest whatsoever in Black men. Who ever said that all dark-skinned women wanted to marry Black men – whose fantasy world are they living in?!”
_________________________________________________
we all have differences, but you have “nothing in common with, blacks.” am i mistaken or did you just objectify a group of people in the same way you’d prefer not to be? do you really think that you are so far above your fellow human?
i though you said that you enjoyed “Classical Music, Ice Skate & took Latin in High School.” nice to hear! i am a classically trained pianist 7-years at a small Conservatory of Music & Arts on CRENSHAW in LOS ANGELES (not including what i learned from my Grandmother who was also my music teacher for years.) BTW, did i mention that i am conversant in french. i never got into ice skating, but was a gymnast on the uneven bars all through HS.
(this is not a competition. i only compete in the business world.)
so here’s the point, there is nothing about what i’ve learned or achieved that makes me better than anyone else. Not Even You! which means most certainly are not better than me ;o) nor are you as a Native American Woman too Good for a Black Man.
and while i am also not attracted to Black Men (in a romantic way), i don’t find them repulsive. They too are beautiful human beings that i appreciate in different ways. just because i am not interested in them in one particular way does not mean that they are unworthy of my kindness or respect. i’m urging you to remember that abhorrent feeling you get when a man of your liking rejects you with prejudice, when you consider other people.
like Reginald, i think we should elevate our thoughts about people. let’s have a little DIGNITY in our considerations of others…White, Black & Everything Between. Please?
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Reply to Teacup Dreamer
Thank you Teacup dreamer. May your faith in yourself always deliver a most incredible effect into your life.
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Reginald and teacup,
Thanks for your inspiring, uplifting tips on how men and women should approach each other, regardless of race.
As far as American society is concerned, I have seen BW who posess MOST of the positive qualities that American men of EVERY RACE “claim” to want but, regardless of personality type, the fact remains that MOST of these BW are not being pursued by American WM/NON-BM because of ANTI-BW RACISM or ANTI-BW COWARDICE.
It’s ABSOULUTELY necessary that ALL American WM/NON-BM DECIDE to STOP buying into ANTI-BW LIES, MYTHS, and STEREOTYPES and learn to RESPECT the HUMANITY, DIGNITY, and FEMININITY of BW as they do NON-BW.
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Reply to Laromana
Thank You Laromana. I really appreciate your response. I totally agree with your mindseye view of how all of us could greatly improve our relationships with each other. I kind of wonder if we actually comprehend all of the dynamics of a real relationship between men and women. Sometimes when I am out and about one of the things that I enjoy is observing other couples. I can actually tell how long a couple may have been together. It is so wild watching them communicate with each other. I continue to learn more and more about us, just by watching them. Unfortunately, there are times when I can see or sense that things are not going well. That kind of makes me feel a little uneasy but I am still learning about us. As a man, it has become very obvious to me exactly what my short comings have been with women in the past by paying a little bit of attention to other mens reactions to their women. I am looking at others strictly from a clinical point of view. I am watching and listening for words, tone of voices, body language being displayed by both genders in hopes that I can succesfully write an interesting book about men and women. I think we will find the scientific information alone should help all of us to learn a lot more about what actually motivates and compels us to inneract with each other the way we do now. If I write the book in a simple no frills way, people of all backgrounds will probably appreciate it a lot more than if I write it with a lot of high brow mumbo jumbo. As you can tell, I have a lot to say about this subject. Primarily because it should help all of us to make much better mateing picks. This should help all of us. As Siddhartha Gautama once said, “He or she who experiences the unity of life sees his or her own self and looks on everything with an impartial eye.: Hopefully I can write this book keeping this quote in mind. Live life well.
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well said laromana!
i agree that we are pursued significantly less by NON-BM even with all the wonderful extras. that by itself can make anyone feel unappreciated. i cannot deny that the Lies, Myths & Stereotypes exist. sometimes people allow themselves to believe such untruths because they validate fears.
there is a cultural paradigm that needs to be dissolved before we can rationally move forward. sad to say though, that more often than not BW are defending themselves against impressions that they did not personally make.
maybe this is a matter that should be addresses from every possible direction instead of one or two???
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Reginald, please let us know when your book is published!?!?
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Reply to Teacup Dreamer
Will do teacup. Keep in mind that there is still a lot of research left to do from effects of infant to adolescent programming that is done from our personal enviorments to traumatic events that lead to bad relationships because of memorys that play over and over in our heads due to these traumatic events and how and why they many times lead to commitment to those memories as a personal behavioral addiction. Example, many times men and women are attracted to the very same type of person that they may have recently broken up with. Sciences explains it as a brain chemically induced effect. Which actually means that they become masochistic in their behavior towards the new person because certain endorphins in the brain are fired when they see or sense the resemblances of all of their past experiences with other people that they may have been with. The science details really blend well helping to explain and actually pinpointing the exact times and or conditions of when we will be able to see when the new relationship is scheduled to either succeed or fail. All of it will be perfectly documented. These are some of the most amazing scientific discoveries of our time. Did you know that a man can wear or carry a certain smell that any woman in the world will notice and take a liking to immediately and have no idea why she likes that certain aroma. This is because women are naturally hardwired in their brains to respond to this smell as pleasing and erotic and absolutely can not resist it. Don’t worry, only about 0000000.1 of the male population is even aware of this secret. By the way, there is a scent that women can wear that will give the exact same reaction to all males also. By the way, if either one of these aromas are worn it will definately attract all of the people that we should be trying to avoid. Thats how powerful it is.
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Hey everybody, I just thought of what brought me to this blog. It was people talking about relationships which by now you know got my attention because of my research for a new book. I would like to ask a few questions to everyone here. What is it that you are attracted to in WM ? At what age did you feel this attraction ? The reason I ask is because I am trying to access and understand what exactly triggers these attractions. My mother is a very light skinned woman and my dad was dark brown. I am somewhere in the middle complexion wise. I have dated women from all over the world and have loved them all from South East Asia to France to South America to Russia to Nigeria I never paid much attention to what color or complexion they were. I am very interested in your responses. It will probably help me to completely understand the scientific interpration of your responses. If you don’t want to list or specify your names it is completely ok. I just need the response for its scientific value. Thanks everyone.
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This reply is to all of the men whose comments I found very interesting to say the least.
Fella’s I really don’t know how to start but I’ll try my best. Over the years my opinion of women has changed at least 10 or more times. I have been baffled, confused, jerked around and emotionally confounded by many women. To this day what they actually want, eludes me to this day. However, one of the things that inspires me about them is their uncanny ability of convincing me that I always want them. Gentlemen, this is a very well plotted out plan that they sometimes use to try and get us to believe that we are running the show. The truth is that they have been running the show since the caveman days. They will never admit it to us but it is what it is. In this blog I have read many comments that they wrote. Go back and listen this time while you read them. Each one has a very unique way of expressing almost the exact same demand. Don’t be fooled by the tags and titles they may carefully inject into their sentences, be mindful of how the adjectives are being carfully controled and used. If you don’t then you will miss their entire collective message. You are being called into a mysterious language world that only they understand. You are being summoned into a new realm of accountability and women once again are the intelligent inquisitors that you must answer to. Some are actually using reverse psycology on a level that men find themselves compeled to respond only to be cut down in the prime of their responses to be ridiculed and picked apart like so many eunichs to be counted as cannon fodder casualties. These are very intelligent women and no match for primal male mentalities. If you dare to think that they are only black women talking then you have made your second mistake. Verbally you are no match for their superior linguestic techniques. They are determined to force you to yield to their demands through words. Words are very powerful as we have taught them while we seduce them with the things that we tell them when we want something from them. They learned this from us. Now it is time for the supposed teachers to sit back and really LISTEN with attentive ears so that we can learn exactly what they are really saying. Here is what I hear them telling us. We want what we want and we will have it our way regardless There is no need to fight it because you will submit in time. Now the language does not actually say it but they know you will never understand their code. By the time you do, you will have completely submitted to their will. Here is an example of what I mean. In Homers Odyssey, Odysseus had his entire trip extended by a year or 2. Odysseus’s mistake was that he refused to put wax in his ear because he wanted to hear The Sirens song. Bad mistake. He had no intention of stopping. Male ego made him do it and loose a couple of years trying to get home to Ithaca. This was Homers way of telling men about how powerful a womans influence is. Most men thought that Odysseus stopped to get females to serve him and his men. Wrong. How many times have we thought that we were conquering a women when in fact she was priming us for something she wanted from us 2 or 3 weeks later. Homer was trying to tell men to be wary of the mental power that women have over them. We still did not listen, even and up to today. Life is not an exact science, it is an art. No one knows this better than a woman. So lets beat our chest and yell to the top of our lungs how we are men and never surrender. At the same time try to remember the orifice that we yell from will never defeat the orifice that we were born from. This is wisdom.
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Hello all. This is for the ladies.
If you read my latest blog, it appears as if I am venting about women. In all actuality I was attempting to verbalize a bit on my own personal experiences with women. At the same time, I attempted to explain my perception of what I had read on this site. If I did not do this then I would not be in pursuit of the truth as I see it. My opinion should in no way reflect that of any other man. It is mine and mine alone. It was not intended to offend anyone. If I did then please humbly accept my apology. I am only trying to be as honest as I can be in an attempt to truly understand what exactly all people are experiencing on the subject of relationships. It is also not my intention to hide some of my true feelings to make everyone think that I am something that I am not. Therefore from time to time I will express how I feel because it allows me to experiment within the realm of human science. By doing this in a raw and untethered way it allows anyone to correct or judge my most truest intentions of getting to the nucleous of the truth about this subject. I am a Scientist with a deep rooted passion for my work. Thank you.
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Whtfuk are wrong with stereotypes.
I am a North European man from an all white society, and I mean all white; in a rural district of Scandinavia. I am as white as u gets them, whit blonde hair, blue eyes and all that.
I do typical white activities like skiing and listen to white music, and have a quite good education. In general a stereotypical white male, and I admit, I’m quite a racist in many ways, and I really think stereotypes are hilarious. Some years ago I find my self by haphazardness stranded in the middle of Africa, surrounded by black Africans. I didn’t like Africa, I found Africans most annoying, and I absolutely did not fancy their black women. I hated it, and just wanted to go home to my valley up north and chase blonde big-breasted sword-women.
One night I was insanely wasted in a bar in the hart of Africa. I do not remember in details, but the next day I wake up whit a black African single mum from Burundi. This is some years ago, and the funny thing is that I have been whit her ever since. She is a typical stereotypical black woman: loud, jealous and aggressive against other females, religious, moody, curly hair, has a good booty, likes chicken, poor educated and like spending money on bling-bling.
You know what, I love it, and I never had a boring day in my life since I met her. I do not try to make either her or our son, more European/white. I even in many ways encourage the stereotypical black thing; I spending a lot of money on gangsta stuff like new era caps and turntables to our little son.
They both like skiing and I think that’s cool, even if it’s a typical white activity. My gold is that my soon shall be the best black African skier ever, my woman still ski whit a stereotypical black woman’s style: I got her a tight white ski suit whit fur from Vuarnet and a pair of La Croix skis with gold, it was expensive shit but worth every euro.
I myself are properly more white then I ever been before.
We have a lot of conflicts in our home, I hate RnB, Bongo Flava and Nigerian movies, my woman hate David Allan Coe, Rock and Norwegian Black Metal. We argue a lot and using a lot of stereotypical racist lines to insult each other, and always end up whit some fantastic violent makeup sex.
I think we bought find these stereotypical racist things as an extreme turn on. In fact she is a very nice, caring and supporting woman besides being a crazy firework.
I find her very attractive, in fact she have totally turned my view on black women. I still find white women sexy but I must admit I find black sexier. I consume porn in large scale, it may not a good thing, but I’m not to ashamed about it. I mainly watch porn whit black women; I also like interracial porn whit white women getting hammered by blacks.
I’m not afraid saying I am a racist who just tend to get extremely horny by my black woman’s big juicy ass and volcano temper.
I don’t think my parents really like it, but one benefit whit Scandinavia is that everyone are left-wingers who “hates racism” even if their deep in their hart do not like either black people or foreigners at all.
Her family does most certainty don’t like me, but I have money, and they don’t. Hah!
It may interest you that my woman has very dark skin, and that I find it very attractive.
And seriously I don’t understand what wrong whit Jezebel is and Sapphire. I think they are both great role models. Who wants to be whit a woman who doesn’t like to fuck and fight? It must be boring as hell.
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The above comment is staggering in its ignorance. Wow. Just wow.
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@Natash W
I stopped reading after a few lines anymore then I would have a headache
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@Natasha W:
No kidding, huh? Idiocy at its finest.
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LMAO @ M L
WOW is I can say….
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ML,
Seriously?
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Im shocked!!!!
(ML sais ” I consume porn in large scale, it may not a good thing, but I’m not to ashamed about it. I mainly watch porn whit black women; I also like interracial porn whit white women getting hammered by blacks”……….B.R. co-sign)
Reginald….interesting .
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oops…..dont know how that “co-sign” slipped out…..just multi -tasking i guess……..
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Surely, ML was just being comical. He was joking I know it.
B.R. i’m gonna assume that was a mistake, not that its any concern what you like to watch…
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abagond is ML a troll or was he really posting from europe?? cuz if he was then that’s sad.
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Peanut……..I would absolutly never ever in my life take a peek at…..porn hub dot com……..
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Very interesting.Hey B.R., What do you really think ? I think this guy may not be telling the truth. My personal conclusion is that ML might be split personality bound or better yet, Cybil impounded on a mental level. Amazingly descriptive. I am thinking back now to see if I can remember anyone in my past who reminds me of him. Yes I do remember now. ML’s description may not be as bizarre as I first thought. A long time ago I had the strange experience of being involved with a woman who acted in a very similar way. She was extremely sexually arousing. The down side was that sex became like an addictive drug to her. Unfortunately her excelerated behavior lead to an early grave. She seeked professional help but could not overcome the impulse to seek more dangerous levels of sexual excitment peeks. She once told me that she needed to act out all of her secret desires. She could not help herself. Arguing and fighting really turned her on. It always lead to makeup sex. About a year after concluding this relationship, I suddenly found myself attracted to a woman with a similar taste but a lot less aggression. I realized that I was the one that was sub-consciously seeking women like this. I was the problem. It took about 3 years for me to unlearn or reprogram myself to select far more intelligent relationships with balanced and meaningful relationships with women. I chalk off this as a learning curb experience. I can imagine how many people actually get landlocked into relationship after relationship like a never ending merry go round ride. For me it was a very scarry ride that could have led to a very dangerous behavioral pattern had I not corrected at 20 years old. Man, what a ride.
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Note to B.R.
Don’t be so shocked. Believe it or not there are many people in the world who have relationships like this. Some of them you know. It may not be as bizzare as you may think. We would all be surprised at a family member who might have been in relationships like this, in fact they still are and you and I don’t even know it. If ML is real, then there must be a lot of people like him. American prisons are full of them. Thats not to say that ML is wrong as much as we now have statistics that shows some of the behaviors that certain groups exhibit a large amount of similarities in. It kind of goes with the territory. If you know what I mean. No disrespect to ML. It is what it is.
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Note to ML
You were exremely honest. I respect that from a scientific point of view. Keep experimenting with your thing and keep us posted. Apparently your life is raw,real and enjoyable to you. Live and love to the fullest. Thanks for your honesty.
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To B.R.
Should I consider that oop’s…… a Freudian slip ? Its ok, I do it all of the time. Thanks for the sub-conscious compliment.
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I told you that alot of white guys liked the bm/ww interracial porn…i told you abagond…didnt I tell you? when you gonna do the mandingo post…
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@I know right, they are the main audience for it I think it was something to do with the cuckold fantasy thing or some mess like that I was reading it on Racialicous I’ll try and find the link to it.
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Reginald, “interesting ” was an observation on what you said, which certainly needs to be digested more before I could just say what I feel about it, but, somethings ring true…
Well, peanut , just hypotheticlay here (since of course I would never ever watch porn in my whole entire life ), if a white man likes to watch interracial sex on adult films, and , really does beleive in interracial relationships and sex, why would he limit himself to just white men with black women?
Wouldnt only attention on white males having sex with black women be some sign of discrimination of black males having sex with white women ? If he is interested in interracial sex and adult films, wouldnt any interracial sex be a turn on?
Why does watching a black man have sex with a white woman mean some kind of fasination with his genital? All men in porn (Ive heard) are more than averagly endowed . Wouldnt that mean that any male watching any porn would be having some kind of fascination with the male genital (by your logic)?
Independent of porn films, I beleive in interracial relationships and sex between all sides, not just white men with black women.
But, about that “Mandingo ” thing, I have heard the one with Terrie Reid is hot……
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Reginald –
I’m not sure if you could scientifically quantify why someonoe is attracted to somebody else…
there have been studies on waste to hip ratio, etc…, but at the end of the day, I would say we as human beings are way more complex than that.
My wife is beautiful. I love her & I’m faithful. That doesn’t mean I don’t have wandering eyes. My eyes recognize attractiveness independent of race or body type. Beyonce, Toccara, Salma Hayek, Ildi Silva, Cindy Crawford, many of the girls from reality TV ——– On any given day, at the end of the day, I’m just a man. (all male flaws/benefits included) I stopped trying to figure it out a long time ago.
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B.R. –
“all men are endowed in porn” = not true.
Hell, this is an internet blog. As crazy as this may sound, f – it: My brother is in porn, and all types are there. If you have any questions, I can relay answers second hand based off stories he tells me. Now I’m really putting myself out there.
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@ColorOfLuv
My eyes recognize attractiveness independent of race or body type. Beyonce, Toccara, Salma Hayek, Ildi Silva, Cindy Crawford, many of the girls from reality TV ——– On any given day, at the end of the day, I’m just a man.
Hmmm…. I am not sure if that’s the same thinhg. Don’t get me wrong, but Beyonce, Toccara and Salma Hayek are not real. I mean, of course they are real, for their friends and family, but for us ordinary people, they are fiction. It’s NOT the same as flirting with a co-worker or having “wandering eyes” for women you really know.
What I’m saying is, I don’t see the first thing (celebrities) as infidelity. Nor I see enjoying porn as infidelity. It’s simply not real.
But having sexual thoughts about the real people, people you know… Well, that’s another thing.
As for porn, I don’t find it disgusting. I just hate the industry behind it. But now when I think about it, I don’t remember I ever watched an interracial porn movie.
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@ Mira –
You said, “But having sexual thoughts about the real people, people you know… Well, that’s another thing.”
Don’t want to burst your bubble, but that is why “betrayal and divorce exist”. People do “covet their neigbors wives”. Or in most cases, their co-workers nowadays. But that is what trust is all about. Also, I disagree with you in that all threee fo those women are very real, and you can go to your local grocery store ( at least here in Miami ) and find womend VERY SIMILAR to the makes & models above. (Admittedly, the exact opposite would be true if I was in a small rural mid-Amercian town.)
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I know relationship problems exist, I just wanted to point out it’s not the same if someone thinks a celebrity is sexy and if said someone thinks a co-worker is. At least, it’s not the same for me.
As for Salma and Beyonce, unless you (general you) really meet them, well, they are not real, they are fiction. If you start flirting with real women who look like them… Well, that could be a problem.
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ml, you wrote:
One night I was insanely wasted in a bar in the hart of Africa. I do not remember in details, but the next day I wake up whit a black African single mum from Burundi…
Excellent piece of fiction. I’m impressed.
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I stand corrected, Color, I have plenty of questions….
Does he know Marie Luv?
Just tell me everything you know he knows…..
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@B.R.
I would have to ask him. He knows A LOT of people but has recently left the business. It is not as glamorous or rewarding as many people think. He first broke into the business via Bang Bros. You will see him in most “searches” on the internet.
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i don’t know who any of these people yall have mentioned are…I might be old-fashioned, but I really don’t like the idea of the porn industry.
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if you enjoy bm/ww porn or bw/wm porn or bm/wm porn, that is your right. The reason I think its about the fascination w/ black male genitalia is because everytime a bw/wm interracial sex question comes up, some white guy will inevitably start talking about bm penis size. Now i’ve always found this odd and i know i’m not the only bw who feels this way because what does a black man’s private have to do with a white guy having sex w/ a bw? WHy even bring it up unless a. you’re intimidated sexually and don’t feel you can perform or b.) you’re fascinated/obsessed with black male genitalia for some reason unbeknownst to me
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LMAO co-sign Peanut… I believe we said something similar on the Roissy post.
Part of the reason SOME black women view white men as “weak” or closet homos is because more than a few have this weird borderline obsessive fascination with the black male penis.
Im not interested in any man, black or white, how is intimidated or fascinated by penises. The gays and bisexuals can have him.
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i actually had some friends of mine who are white, tell me that i shouldnt wait to have sex because if i married a bm, then it would be extra painful because bm were the biggest. when i corrected them & told them this is a stereotype, they insisted on correcting me and explaining the p*nis hierarchy that says that bm are the biggest, wm in the middle & asian men smallest. THEY tried to school ME on this, i found it funny.
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Peanut, and, Y hahahahah Im laughing too, and , beleive me, I would watch out for a man with a fetish about penis size….
I just think , since I never saw porn in my life…its time for me to find out about it…….
Ok OK, Im teasing….I like adult films , I like interracial adult films , but, definitly not exclusivly , and, if you ask me, it sounds funny if someone would like interracial with only black women and white men and not accept or like black men with white women , or asian men and women , or hispanic etc.
This penis envy thing is strange to me, its definitly not my bag…dont they have gay adult films for that?
size , shmize, there is a lot more to sex than just genital size
Well color, I guess I could start by asking, arnt the men under contract to have to use viagra so they have a better chance of meeting up to standards?
Im also curious if most of those women also do call girl work or if they only do film?
Where Im at now in life, I love to intake all the sensuality on the beach and adult film sexuality I like to see , to build a very powerful sexual fire I can bring all to my wife…that is really where its at for me…..
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and, if you ask me, it sounds funny if someone would like interracial with only black women and white men and not accept or like black men with white women
Actually, that sounds logical to me. I mean, if you are a white guy who is into interracial porn, it is logical to like white men / black women combination more than the others, because you can imagine you’re the white man in question having sex with a black woman. I thought it’s the point of it, of the fantasy I mean, to picture yourself as one of the actors.
I don’t mean on porn only. Let’s face it: we all want to see people who look like us in the movies. We want to watch heroes who are like us because we want to identify ourselves. It’s part of the magic. White heterosexual males got this in practically every mainstream movie. It is logical for the rest of the people to want that too. It is the same when it comes to couples in movies. You always want that someone hot is paired with someone who looks like you.
I guess I never thought it’s different with porn. And yes, I am aware of the main (and only) reason people watch porn. But still, I thought like I wrote above.
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B.R. dont get me wrong if you like IR porn that is fine! IR sex is no different than same race sex. But the racist connotations that some people put in IR porn and black male sexuality is off putting to say the least.
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Yes Mira you are right. I think its fine for white men to favor porn that has white male leads. They can picture themselves acting out the fantasy. However it would be wrong for these men to be pro WM/BW porn and condemn BM/WW porn…thats just racist.
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However it would be wrong for these men to be pro WM/BW porn and condemn BM/WW porn…thats just racist.
Of course.
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i agree it is racist to be cool w/ wm/bw and not okay with bm/ww, but in my experience, some wm are overly fascinated with it…tha’ts also weird
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A bit of history about how it all started. During the african slave trade the youngest and tallest and largest males and females brought the highest prices on the slave market. Many were bought to the United States in the early 1500’s and sold at very high prices. Some of the plantations started breeding farms and forced many of these slaves to procreate which created big strong muscular slave offspring. In a very short time other plantations used the same breeding techniques and before long many plantations had forced breeded thousands of these new Mandingo type strong men and women. This procedure became very popular among many plantations in the south. This went on for at least 3 more centuries. Some plantations held contest to show off their largest and strongest male and female slaves. At the same time plantation owners became paranoid about what they had created and many tried to reverse the process and found it to be almost impossible to undo what was already done. By the turn of the 19th century many of the plantations slaves had off spring with these Super bred slaves and the rest is history.This type of breeding technique was first recorded to be used during early Eutruscan and Greek civilizations and caught on like wildfire throughout many of the ancient B yzantine empires along with many of the Middle Eastern countries as well going all the way back about 10,000 years. The Romans did everything they could to refine its use. Well all know how prosperious the Romans were. Slavery was the backbone of their fluorishing economy. Over the last two thousand years most of Europe, Indonesia and North and South America have either been slaves themselves or relatives to family members that were taken into slavery. No one was immune to its savage grip. We in our most civilized and respected exterior wear have developed such strange taste for such animal like behavior. Ponder what actually lies in the hearts of each of us. Look deep down inside of our imperfect souls. What other species do you know of could possibly justify such barbaric and self destructive behavior. None but us. Now that I have helped you look at the ground level of your souls. Step into the elevator and plummet into the very depths of what we are actually capable of. As the door opens a light shines eternally bright in the distance of what looks like the true basement of your heart. Step out and see a reflection of yourself in the event horizon of all of us in the oneness of our selves. None stands alone as your vision clears see the truth. See yourself in all of your brilliance and your shame. Judge not for what you see is in all of our DNA. We are the best and the worst of every strand. What say you all ?
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Y sais ” However it would be wrong for these men to be pro WM/BW porn and condemn BM/WW porn…thats just racist”
peanut “i agree it is racist to be cool w/ wm/bw and not okay with bm/ww, but in my experience, some wm are overly fascinated with it…tha’ts also weird ”
yes, I agree, if I beleive in IR relationships , to not beleive in black men with white women, in relationships and with sex in them, would be hypocritical
Mira, there are adult films that have BW/WM , that turn me on , and could have this identity and familiarity, but, I relate to black males also. And , many young white boys , including myself, did or do have black male athletes as role models , and, my major music idols and mentors have been black males, along with black females, so , I dont filter that out in adult films.
And, if there are white males sitting there, over fascinated with BM genitilia, that does sound strange to me also, I just cant relate , yet, Im sure it exists.
I would think the general reaction of prejudiced white males, at the thought of black men having sex with white women, would be revulsion and hate and they wouldnt want to see it…or see it with a lot of hate
Reginald, I dont know what to say….but, keep posting , Im listening…
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Color of LUV
As a matter of fact there are many social experiments that have been thoroughly researched on clinically verified and documented cases. Masters and Johnsons covered this subject with great success. I found some of it to be rather insightful. Recently scientist have discovered even more amazing data. Apparently their is a very good reason why relationships change between 2 people that are overwhelmingy head over heals in love with each other. In Copenhagen scientist found that after about 2 years the endorphins in the human brain changes in both partners. When this happens one or both of the involved subjects can no longer stimulate the other partners endorphins to the same level of chemical intensity as was observed in the very beginning of the relationship. Results, fifty percent of the relationships that were documented started to decline and wither. The other fifty percent evolve into some other levels of compromised aggrements. Although most people do get to experience these results, very few are able to explain exactly what happened to their failed relationships. Imagine how well people might be able to digest that they were jilted in love because these endorphins were on the decline. Instead of thinking about what they thought that they did wrong ?How many lives could we save from jumping off of bridges? We are starting to find more and more data that leads us to understand that chemical dynamics in the brain plays a very important part in the human romance and mating sequence. I salute the men and women that are trying to find some of the answers to solving and maybe understanding this phenomena called human relationships between men and women. Yes, the research that is being done will help studies like Masters and Johnsons to explain far more intricate details and facts about the birds and the bee’s and other as yet unknown factors. Talk at you latter.
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I foud some of the racialicious and addicted to race links NSFW
http://www.racialicious.com/2009/07/10/dear-porn-industry-must-interracial-porn-always-be-so-racist/
http://www.racialicious.com/2009/07/12/addicted-to-race-110-all-about-race-and-sex/
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May I suggest white guilt as a factor?
What I’m saying is, maybe whites see white on black porn as inappropriate because of the history. They know what whites did to black slave women was bad. Maybe their guilt prevents them to fully enjoy white on black porn?
… But the guilt doesn’t stop them in making racist porn with black men and white women?
Just a thought.
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Mira, Im not sure its guilt , and, Im not sure if the whites who think “white on black porn” as inapropriate are the ones who make the films.
I jut think once they get the gut leval prejudice and hate going, these prejudice white males have the biggest hate and fear of black men having sex with “their” white women.
I think there are a range of differant reasons that white men might not like or like interracial adult films.
There are the penis envy people Peanut refers to, and you, Mira , refferred to in your country…
There are the white people that just apreciete interracial adult films
there are white people who arnt consumed with hate but just arnt atracted to interracial adult films
and the white klanners who are concumed with hate and would be revulsed to watch interracial adult films
and then there are the white people consumed with making money and who make the adult films who try to cover every angle and fetish out there to get some cash
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Oh, well, that was just an idea…
And I must say I am not quite sure if men in my country have penis envy (what exactly is penis envy?), because, like I said, they all believe they are the ones who have biggest, and see this thing as a very, very positive “trait”. None of them would believe me if I said the stereotype was harmful towards black people, if you ask them, that is the most positive thing someone can say about a man. No kidding. Not intelligence or any other really important thing. Now, I am not saying guys here want to hear they are dumb or something, and yes, I do believe, deep inside, they would prefer to be seen as intelligent than “biggus dickus”, but let’s just say that is… deep inside. Most of them would take “big penis” as a much better compliment than “you’re intelligent”.
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Thanks B.R.
You and Mira continue to engage concepts and ideas about this very important issue. This is important. What you both are saying bares witness to the thoughts of many. We are all the sum total of everything that we think. Most of mankinds challenges have been repaired or conquered through such useful mediums. As Bundini Brown said to Muhamed Ali as he stepped up into the boxing ring in the Thrilla in Manila Fight between Ali and Frazier “Rumble young man rumble”
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BR, you seem like youd like bm/aw porn…
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, they should start making more of those type of adult films as im sure it would be a hit w/ the white men
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I’m addicted to female oriented porn, shopping!
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Going shopping is the female version of porn!
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i bet steve sailer watches aw/bm porn, he probably loves it…
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Going shopping is the female version of porn!
I’ve seen far too many women drooling over hot shirtless photos of their favorite celebs to agree.
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LMAO @ Peanut
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Reply to
Lynn-Gazis-Sax
You just hit the nail on the head. Your comment about “Favorite Celebs” is right on the money. I will respond more in depth later. Thanks for your honesty.
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Double Reply to Lynn-Gazis-Sax
Please allow me to quote you. “I’ve seen far too many women drooling over hot shirtless photos of their favorite celebs to agree. I think 2 birds were killed with one stone with this statement. Here is what I mean. As we all know, male celeb’s image wise usually are seen as successful and handsome. Lets call them Supreme Alpha Males. Women and Men usually try to select Alpha people. We all tend to select people that are either on our level or higher, status wise. This often is the case. Since this factor seems to be well adhered to, it would be fair to say that we all share this mind set. However there are some exceptions to the general rule. Normally men nor women select below their station in life. People always try to select up. Its in our nature. We carry these social habits with us everywhere. At our work places the rule still applies. In fact the higher up the corporate ladder we progress, the more evident it becomes. There needs to be some form of rules to keep everything balanced in any society. Living life is an artistic pursuit of sorts. When we are in our teens, we tend to select on a more emotional level. When we get into our 20’s we select a little better. In our 30’s is when we find out just how dumb we were about life and select a lot better etc… Through all of our experiences good and bad If we pay attention something very profound happens. We learn that the world actually yields its greatest rewards to the smartest people. Those are the rules. No exceptions. Black, White, Yellow, Brown it makes no difference. The New Alpha People are the smartest. If race, religion, social standing can be over come then the smartest people will certainly find a way. Abagond asked the question. Are you all intelligent enough to give the correct answer ? The Alpha People already know the answer. I will ask it again. Why do so few white men marry black women ? Understand that penis questions have absolutely nothing to do with the true answer. The truth will set all of you free. Be well. Seek knowledge.
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If you really believe that then you have been brain washed by mainstream media like everyone else that seen non stop coverage of black celebrity men with white women. That’s what they’d like you to believe but it is not a true reality. If white men cared so much about what race their children are, then why did they spend so much time during slavery having sex with their black slaves? And they sure as hell weren’t pulling out.
Yeah okay, where do you think Mulattos come from? You don’t know anything about race!
If anyone has any doubts about white men and black women then check this out. There is a black woman in the German royal family. Yeah they look like they really care alright! Only in your ignorant mind!
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Ok Sioux. Its going to be alright. I think.
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Ok Sioux. That was pretty good. Now lets bring it home. I watched your youtube presentation. It was good. What I noticed most of all was that most were celebrities and already accomplished business mogols. And thats ok also. They are the Alpha People I spoke of. They represent about 1 or 2 percent of the entertainment population. And about 000.1 percent of the business world. What about the rest of the world. The other 98% of us. Your attempt at balancing the scales of equality reminds me of white americans attempt to notify african americans of how far they have come by using Shaq and the NFL Stars along with Baseball Super Stars to finalize their argument that african americans are much better off then they think they are. Good try. The fact still remains that african americans still have one the highest rates of social and economic malfunction not only in america but also around the world. Let me ask you something Sioux? Why is it so easy to buy a Smith&Wesson pistol or any automatic weapon up to and including military weapons from around the world on any city corner out of the back trunk of a gun dealers car in any state in america ? Do you think that is some kind of social oversight. I don’t think so. Is there a reason that the american prison system has a 75% african american presence ? Is it because blacks are more prone to commit crimes? I don’t think so. Many things unseen and unheard are working against all people of color all around the world. Do you think the entire African Continent is constantly being encouraged to keep their little small countrys seperate from other small countries on the same continent by selling all of their dictators the same kinds of weapons making sure that they continue to fight border wars and occasional genicide cleansing. Do you really think that it is an accident ? I don’t think so. When I said that people need to be smarter, I meant all people not just some. Alpha People already understand this simple truth which is why it is ao hard to find them in the aformentioned situations. Not just 1 or 2 percent either. I meant 100% of all of the people in the world. We all grow and learn through debate. Prosperity and good health to all.
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“f white men cared so much about what race their children are, then why did they spend so much time during slavery having sex with their black slaves? ”
oh my, oh my my my….most of those white men did NOT claim their mixed children. Often they were sold away or at the most allowed to work and labor as SLAVES in the big house and that is if these white men were nice. They cared very much about the color of their childrens’ skin that is why they hesistated to claim their mulatto offspring. They raped or “slept with,” (for those who have issues w/ the word) their slaves for many reasons. sometimes it was to humilate/humble the slave, sometimes it was due to attraction ,sometimes due to power…but mostly just because they could… it wasn’t just in america this happened but all over the world nad the trend was pretty consistent that white men ABANDONED their mixed children because they were mixed. so they did care about color. That is why we haev mixed blacks to this day who do not know they are mixed because all they ever could claim was black because their white side wasn’t claiming them. That is why we have creoles/metis and brazilians who are visibly mixed claiming themselves as black.
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i’m not critcizing anyone, but I will never understand why some people take pride in the fact that some white males abused their black slaves and forced them to bear their children just to increase the slave population or service their own ego. If you’ve read through slave narratives you’ll know there is NOTHING cute about what was going on MOST of the time in sexual relationships between slave masters/overseers and their slaves and even up until Jim Crow ended in the south.
Have you ever heard of Celia, a slave. She was sexually abused again and again and again for years by her master Newsome. She had three children by the time she was 18 and this man was atleast in his 50s. He abused her and when she defended herself she got lynched for it. How about Harriet Jacobs?? There are SO MANY stories in the narratievs about rape…so many. it was a vile thing. nothing cute about it most of the wm certainly didn’t care enough to free their mulatto slaves, so that should say something. yes…SOME of the white men grew to love and respect their female slaves and set their offspring and mother free, SOME of the sex was consensual. some of the wm tried to live w/ their black female slaves as husband and wife would, BUT MOST did not see the slaves as equal and did it because they could….nothing is glamorous about it….
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Co-sign Peanut
I dont know if its an ego boost or what. It seems to me the people that get off saying this feel as to master and slave sexual relations puts them “on par” with white people.
The black women that say this come off as desperate. Desperate to prove that white men find black women attractive.
Makes me cringe.
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exactly, now I don’t believe in not-acknowledging that this type of thing did happen because we know it did and it should be remembered for what it was…but to think that wm ever actually CARED about their black mistresses by and large is just silly to me. If they cared they wouldn’t have made their own children, their flesh and blood, their slaves in the first place. That’s not even normal, that’s not even natural. It’s dysfunction at its worst and it messed up the black community. It part of the reason we have the whole light-skinned, good hair bull sh*t. It just makes me sick that white blood is put on a pedestal that much. we blacks are still dealing with the residual effects of the white massa’s indisgression to this day. we deal with it everytime we hear the phrase “good hair.”
it also irritates me when racist whites try to romanticize the relations between black slaevs a white masters (sally hemmings…) I hate that and i also hate when this type of cruelty is denied or minimized altogether. Tell history like it is, they raped their slaves, the slaves didn’t have a choice to say no, so it was rape period. That’s my stance and its going to stay that way.
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also this raping didn’t end w/ slavery, but continued up until Jim Crow was removed. If you read melba patillo’s autobiography (she integrated little rock HS) she was molested and nearly RAPED by a white man the same day as Brown vs. board of education passed in congress. The wm who attacked her did it to “pay her back.”
Lena Baker was essentially forced into sexual slavery with a wm and when he stalked her and wouldn’t leave her alone, she defended herself and received the death penalty. This type of thing had little to do w/ attraction, but just about being able to control and walk all over a bw. White men could control black people and one way to control black women was to take away something that was so prized and valued in a ww, her sexual integrity and dignity.
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Right on Peanut. You expressed what most people of color have been feeling in a most brilliant and artistic way. Knock down drag out was the only way to say what many people need to hear. We often forget the road that was traveled. Well now that Peanut has expressed how many people of color feel lets address some more things that bother everybody. I am going to put this out there for everyone to take a bite out of. Are you ready ? I have a question that will allow everyone to answer. As we have so diligently judged white men for their past iniquities, let us turn inward and ask ourselves this question. Why do black men make rap music that verbally degrades black women and uses all types of really nasty descriptions along with videos that advertise a black womans nature as gutteral and trashy ? The second question is What do you think white men think when they see or hear these videos. The third question is what do you think the world thinks when they see this type of depiction ? These questions were designed to make everybody think. When black women see or hear this type of intertainment, how do they feel ? Do white people think that the “N” word is being used so much that they should be able to use it ? Last but not least. Do black women think that rap music is a good vehicle for promoting their dignity and integrity ? Take a bite out of any question that you wish. Ohhhhhhhhhh its on now.
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Frankly I don’t give a flying crap what white men think, I really don’t.
Nothing upsets a white man more than asking a black woman out and being told where to go. I’ve been there loads of times. It’s not about any women turning them down, there’s a racial aspect of it. Heck he’s gone out on a limb to tell you he fancies you. Naturally you should graciously accept, damn your choice!
They don’t have the power they used to with women of color. When he’s turned down he probably wishes we still live in times he could flog, hang or rape you to put you in your place.
Michelle Obama is a perfect example of the strong black woman they can’t touch, the vitriol heaped on her is not because of her husband’s policies. He can’t touch you so he insults you.
The title of this post should be ‘Why so few BLACK women marry white men’
It implies we’re all sitting around waiting for white men to choose us.
There are white men on this very board married to black women still defending the historical rape of black women by white men. I can’t comprehend that sort of ingrained bigotry!
The laws may have changed, their morals certainly haven’t!
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Frankly I don’t give a flying crap what white men think, I really don’t.
Neither do I. With that being said, a women can date/marry whatever man she wants. What I don’t understand is why black men of other cultures, such as black Brits, West Indians, men from the African content, Asians etc. aren’t being vetted as potential mates? I have seen some white men who fit the description you just gave and I agree, there seems to be a racial component to it, you should be grateful they asked you out.
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The title of this post should be ‘Why so few BLACK women marry white men’
It implies we’re all sitting around waiting for white men to choose us.
There are white men on this very board married to black women still defending the historical rape of black women by white men. I can’t comprehend that sort of ingrained bigotry!
response: yeah, we don’t need to mention names, but its amazing how some wm who are involved w/ black women still can’t see past their own bigotry…amazing
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Yes, it reminds me of the line “I can’t be racist, I have [insert race here] as friends, spouses, you name it.”
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(whew…. coming in here now, knowing that this aint me ) =”There are white men on this very board married to black women still defending the historical rape of black women by white men”
Well , Reginald, Ill try to tackle a couple of your questions.
I have long had a theory that the white boys who take to rap that ,demeans black women , and women in general, are doing it as a rebellion to womens lib positions in the decade before , that started to back men in the corner and say all that was wrong with them . They see in rap, men behaving exactly the total opisite of what the womens lib said they were suposed to , and, these white boys live vicariously through that….
I remember the debate on the Oprah show with Common, Ludicriss and some other rappers where Oprah started to get stern about what they should be saying, and, they reacted angrily as though Oprah and the other older women shouldnt be ordering them what to do.
About white people or any one outside black people thinking they can use the n world because black rappers are, I can only say, just plain old common sence would tell anyone that no, you shouldnt use the n word if you are not black.
Its a very simple thing that any dolt could get and I am suspect of any white boy using black rap ,and the use of the n word , as an excuse to use it.
I never ever liked ethnic humor unless it was used by the person of that ethnicity. It always made me feel uncomfortable, any ethnic humor jokes.
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I found comfort in coming home to a black dad who truly understood the black experience, could relate and guide me. My best friend has a white father, deceased black mother, to say he’s clueless is putting it mildly. Again she’s been in positions where whites are having a go and her white partner is too chicken to stand up to them, easier to trivialize what she goes through than defend her.
Ankhesen Mie was right to ask just why whites are so bloody afraid of each other??
White men just don’t have what it takes AT ALL to understand the black experience.
Marrying a black woman or having mixed kids gives you some visitation rights into blackness but not enough to ‘get’ it.
The mixed race child is still alien, they don’t see themselves in their kids, their genes are lost in all that blackness.
When pushed hard enough their instinct is to defend whiteness first, as some white men have illustrated on this very board.
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Interesting theory, and I have the same attitude as you about ethnic humor. But IMO the language of so many black rappers is simply disgusting, and while African Americans may find it more objectionable when ‘white boys’ use it, as a white person I believe its level of digust isn’t variable depending on the race of the person using it.
However I do think an argument could be made that the language and attitudes projected through so much rap does more damage to the psyche of black children and youth when spat out by black rappers than by stupid white boys. In other words, stupid black rappers have more negative influence on black children and youth than stuipd white boys do.
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Reply to
B.R. , MerriMay, kernan820
You all responded so well that I don’t know where to start. I’ll try ladies first, ok MerriMay. Your comment about white men just don’t have what it takes to understand the black experience may very well be true. I will call your statement part of the answer to the main question being asked about “why white men don’t marry black women.” Kernan820, what you said really is to much truth for most people to come to grips with. Taking into consideration the fact that many black women just did not read my earlier comment, I find it hard to believe that more black women have not responded yet to what I said. Here is the reason why I said what I said. Many times in life we ask all kinds of questions about everything in life. This is wrong. That is wrong. We need to do something about this problem or that problem etc… Many times if we turn inward we find that the answer lies within us. If we take time to reflect inward the answer is right in front of our eyes. I suspect that the black women who did read my comment may have found themselves not wanting to comment on something that they may have sanctioned and very much approved. No matter how damaging it may be to themselves or their culture. They may find it somewhat inconvienent to chastise a behavior that they themselves have helped to perpetuate. The silence is due to guilt about a behavior that their very essence is sub-consciuosly opposed to. When a mother fails her child it eats away at her very existence. She shivers and shakes and torments about the condition of her child. When something is wrong inside of all of us these are just a few of the symptoms we all feel. Before any of us can fix something we must first identify what the problem is. African American people we know that we need to fix what is inside of us. We need to clean up our own house. There are many things wrong with our house. When will we start to see our faults and stop blaming everybody else ? A great part of our problem is our image. In the past others projected it for us and told many, many lies. Now that we are moving towards a new period of enlightenment the feasibility of our evolution will become apparent to everyone. Above all we need to stop marketing our image as anything negative. We can’t afford it. Other groups can. They can afford it. Our road is hard and tedious at times. It is because we have much to learn. We should be evolving quite rapidly now. Every seperate group will finally understand that we are all one species. All of the old ways of thinking are dyeing off like so many autumn leaves. We are arriving into a new time of oneness. It won’t be much longer before Eutopia will be upon us. Everyone try and remember that none of us are free until all of us are free.
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Reginald, regarding
“Every seperate group will finally understand that we are all one species. All of the old ways of thinking are dyeing off like so many autumn leaves. We are arriving into a new time of oneness”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monism
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Reply to B.R.
I apologize to you for not making a reply comment about what you said. I appreciate your indepth analysis of both white boys (as you put it) and the observation of that Oprah show that questioned the validity of their impact on peoples perceptions and how they may influence them. Their reaction was interesting. As usual, you expressed it. This is what we need to hear. Salutes to you B.R. say what you mean and mean what you say. The irony of it all seems to be that we all have a direct effect on everyone and everything that we come in contact with for the duration of our lives. We can not see it now because of our primitive brains. The scientific reality is that we are connected with everything in this universe and all of the other universes throughout eternity. Everything that we do and say does have an impact on everyone and everything all of the time. Thats how reality is created. (Sorry for the scientific part) We are what we are. Draw breath and exhale truth.
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Merri “Marrying a black woman or having mixed kids gives you some visitation rights into blackness but not enough to ‘get’ it.
The mixed race child is still alien, they don’t see themselves in their kids, their genes are lost in all that blackness.
When pushed hard enough their instinct is to defend whiteness first, as some white men have illustrated on this very board.”
Now I know you arnt speaking to me or for me with this statement.
I really have no hang ups or qualms about whether Im seeing what genes in my kid.
Ive got to deal with the fact he is bi national as well as bi racial. You think bi racial is the only problem ? Think again
And , Im more than up to the task , I find it amusing anyone thinks they could analyse my relationship with my kid…
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Jesus, B.R., Merri’s black so OF COURSE she knows your kids better than you do.
After all, she speaks Portuguese, right…?
Oh, I’m sorry. I forgot: she just communicates with them via telepathy. [roll eyes]
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MerriMay,
“…she’s been in positions where whites are having a go and her white partner is too chicken to stand up to them, easier to trivialize what she goes through than defend her.”
That doesn’t sound like a very healthy relationship. I would ditch him if I were her.
“White men just don’t have what it takes AT ALL to understand the black experience.”
I guess I don’t know what the black experience is. Being black? Or being aware that you are black and the consequences of it in modern society? I see many blacks shrug off racism or be incognizant of it while it is happening. On the other hand, my SO is almost always aware of racism (even from himself). He’ll never know what it’s like to be black, but he sure has a better idea than most people.
“The mixed race child is still alien, they don’t see themselves in their kids, their genes are lost in all that blackness.”
I do think some whites worry about their genes “disappearing” with biracial children. But this is only the case if you look at color only: rarely have I seen a child that doesn’t resemble their parents/grandparents at least a bit, and that goes for mixed children as well.
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B.R.,
I’ve seen biracial kids that closely resemble their white parent. Though they may not have the same coloring or hair/eye color, you can see it in the shape of their eye, facial/body structure or any other way that kids resemble their parent. I’ve seen girls with their white mother and thought “she looks just like her mother”.
They can also have the same personality – that’s universal.
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islandgirl, you posted at almost the same time as me…. great minds think alike! 😉
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Natasha,lol! Great minds do think alike:)
I always enjoy reading your comments.
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Yes islandgirl is right…
I know a girl that has a black father and white mother, she looks EXACTLY like her mother.
Besides hair color/texture and skintone they are identical…She looks nothing like her father. All she got from him was dark(er) skin and kinkier hair.
BTW…the whole “black genes are dominant” is a ploy to scare non-blacks from mating with blacks. If people would stop going by skin color and look at features they would see that most bi/multi racials have characteristics from all of their races
I also agree with Natasha W, there are white people that understand were POC are coming from and their are POC that dismiss blatant racism all just so they can say “Im different and dont dwell on race like the other darkies”
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Since the most harped on and dissected issue on this very board is our different experiences as ‘blacks’ and ‘whites’, by definition alone, a white person can’t relate to being ‘black’ in a majority white world.
Sure, study the very racial construct in society, but do you then get the day to day stuff on a personal practical level?
A white poster raised some excellent points about white previlege and a hypothetical union with a black woman that would produce progeny that doesn’t inherit that previlege. It bothered him, at least he’s honest and acknowledges the fact.
Unless you live in a different country Thad of course your kids will speak the same language, duh, and of course kids will take on a parent’s features. Those are moot points.
The blackness I speak of is the very experience that draws blacks from all corners of the world to discuss an issue that is common to us all, one that most whites have demostrated over and over to be ignorant of, willfully or not. The experience that trancends white daddy’s nose or blue eyes or whether or not you both speak portuguese, *rolls eyes*
B.R I’m not analyzing your relationship with your son, of course you love him and would protect him. Bear in mind here, that subject to where you live and a white supremacist world, you don’t ‘get’ it. You may be privy to it by association with your wife and kids, may even hurt and empathise, but you have the option to escape the baggage of being ‘black’. What does that have to do with your relationship with your son? It doesn’t negate the fact you’re his father. You’re white, he’s not, you do the social calculations there, you’ll find one of you comes up short in an unfair ‘white’ world.
Sure a few white hubbies are enlightened here and there, good for them, but historically white men have not stepped up to the plate with their mixed children, sorry.
Seems my comments aren’t skipped over after all, lol *smh*
London marathon in six hours, have to rest.
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Since the most harped on and dissected issue on this very board is our different experiences as ‘blacks’ and ‘whites’, by definition alone, a white person can’t relate to being ‘black’ in a majority white world.
Brazil is hardly a “majority white world”, first of all. Secondly, there’s NO WAY anyone can completely understand anyone else’s subjective experience: the idea that race somehow plays into this is a comforting illusion to people who can’t handle the fact that we are ultimately on our own when it comes to making sense of the world.
But let’s presume that there is some ineffable “peopleness” that only certain types of people can get. You may be Black, but are you brazilian? Can you truly then say what a Brazilian experiences? You’re a woman. Can you understand, really, what a man experiences?
Hell, the examples just go on and on.
Finally, here in brazil – and you may have heard this – we have a third category: “mixed”. If we take you presumption seriously neither you nor a white man is going to be able to understand a mixed person’s experience.
The blackness I speak of is the very experience that draws blacks from all corners of the world to discuss an issue that is common to us all, one that most whites have demostrated over and over to be ignorant of, willfully or not. The experience that trancends white daddy’s nose or blue eyes or whether or not you both speak portuguese, *rolls eyes*
Nice dogma. Pity it’s simply not true. Racism has many forms. You being black and american and dealing with racism doesn’t mean that you “instinctively” understand what, say, a Native American goes through when they deal with racism, nor does it mean that you have had the same subjective experiences as a black african or south american or even as a another black american. Racism is a flexible and multi-faceted thing: you have not experienced all its forms, nor will you ever.
So what it all comes down to, MM, is your presumption that black experience all over the world essentially mirrors yours – whether completely or in this one thing, that’s simply not true.
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“About white people or any one outside black people thinking they can use the n world because black rappers are, I can only say, just plain old common sence would tell anyone that no, you shouldnt use the n word if you are not black.
Its a very simple thing that any dolt could get and I am suspect of any white boy using black rap ,and the use of the n word , as an excuse to use it.”
i take offense to some white people ASSUMING that just because some foolish rappers use the N-word that all bp must be okay usiung it. I DO NOT COMMONLY USE THE WORLD. I was not raised to use it and most of my black girlfriends DO NOT use it regulalry. I can understand how SOME blacks feel more comfortable using it amongst themselves than others. I can understand why they’d be offended moreso if a white said it than a black, but i don’t use it. So don’t presume I do.
Also i don’t see using the n-word exclusively as a black privilege. This guy (white) and I got in a huge argument once because he said that blacks getting to use the nword only was a form of privilege. Boy did that piss the hell out of me.
How about the privilege that whites don’t even have a word that is equivalent in its historical context to the n-word. How about the privilege not having been lynched for being an “n-word.” I would never call that privilege not in the least. Privelege would be not having had the word invented in the first place. Privilege would be no being labeled an n-word or treated like one to the point its harder to get jobs, your more likely to get arrested, your country continulous exploited and having your neighborhoods terrorized constantly by the powers that be…that’s what being a n-word means and that is what too many wp don’t experience and until they do, they can’t tell bp that being able ot use the n-word, while they can’t is a damn privilege….
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yeah, Thad
Islandgirl, I get what you are saying, I just thought Merri was reffering to something else . I just meant, I dont have any fear of seeing or not seeing my genes in my son , those aspects dont compute for me raising my son.
And, Merri, of course I pay attention to your posts (and your nice looking picture) , its not that you dont make some good points.
I would never say I know the black experiance , the discrimination, the racism, even though I have been discriminated against as an American where I live. Yet, my experiance with black Americans and black social culture is much greater than just my two mairradges to black women.
And , what I can say about my bi racial son is that, neither me or his mother , who is black Brazilian with mix of indian and Portuguese, understand his bi racial or bi national experiance.It is his unique experiance compared to us.
It is definitly much more multi dimensional and complex compared to either me or my wife.We are in the same boat about that.
And, he is quite capable of discovering for himself , what is important about him with his black roots or white roots or indian roots.With his Brazilian roots and with his American roots. The truth is, I can give him a lot more information and insight into the black American struggle than I can about the indian American struggle, or the Brazilian indian struggle.
And, he can count on me to discuss through things he experiances like being discriminated for being American, or, being harrassed by police because he was brown in a white neihborhood.
I dont mind you generalising , if you want to , but, its a differant story if someone wants to try to point out what could be “weak” about how I can relate to and help my son cope with obsticles out there , as a biracial or binational person ( are you a binational person?).
In the sence that, I know I have done my part to prepare my son for what can hurt him out there in this world.
I really feel there is no one of any color who would have been preferable to be his father to raise him…( I mean “doh” what father is going to say any differant lol)
and, I could be misunderstanding your point…..
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I would never say I know the black experiance , the discrimination, the racism, even though I have been discriminated against as an American where I live.
Well, we both live the “gringo experience”. And though that might make us wise to what the other goes through, I’d have to say that it doesn’t “make me understand you in a way that a non-gringo absolutely can’t”, for all all that we probably share common experiences facing Brazilian prejudices and nativism.
Nor would I say that our being immigrants here gives us some ineffable insight to the immigrant experience as a whole that is absolutely ungraspable by non-immigrants.
Reality and real-life experience just doesn’t line up in that sort of neat, “just-so” story way.
Merri May would say that this is not so.
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Reply to Peanut
Peanut I loved your response about “Can white people use the “n” word.” This is one of the questions that I was trying to get black women to respond to. You are a brave sista. I admire your courage because I posed the question to see how many women would respond. You are probably a born leader. I read all of your comments. Your comments really say a lot that people need to read. The questions that I posed were designed to make black women look at the hard reasons that white men may or may not have for not marrying black women. Most of the black women who read what I asked probably found it hard to answer any of the questions because my questions made them look inside themselves to find the answers. Most people will not face hard realities that suggest that they might somehow be at fault at least to some degree. However you dove in head first and tried to answer one of the hardest questions. I admire this about you. You have a unique talent called bravery. I know it took a lot of endurance to respond to such a hard question. I feel that you could endure any hardship in life. You seem to have the DNA that is imprinted with a lot of mental strength. I hope you have a lot of kids and pass that DNA on. You are a strong and mighty warrior. I appreciate your brain. You think well. If you are not an Alpha Person yet, you will be. The questions that I asked were designed to seperate the wheat from the chaff.
Mind is all powerful. It is capable of all things great and small. If we learn to master the mind it will yield to us a most excellent result.
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Gentlemen try to keep to the issue at hand, white men and their mixed race progeny. Firstly I said subject to where you live, in this instance white men, the sole beneficiaries of white previlege. You’ve chosen to live as ‘gringos’ in Brazil. Where you can align your experiences of facing discrimination with those of minorities. You’re trivilializing the scale and magnitude of the constant historical/present assault on POC.
That’s a tiny speck compared to millions of POC that live in white supremacist countries, and have thus been displaced because of it. Individual experiences will vary, but collectively, yes POCs/non-white people face a struggle they can relate to, irrespective of nationality/origin etc.
You’re right Brazil is hardly a ‘majority white world’ but try telling that to people that know that same society, like many others, was constructed to place whites at the top, POC bottom.
I’ve been black in South Africa, Canada, England and Germany, white supremacy is prevalent. I’m not American. I live in London, UK.
Marriage to a black woman does not make one an expert based on ‘experiences’.
Your offspring is subjugated to the ‘other’ something that as a fellow POC I can relate to. You cannot.
That’s the main crux of the issue that Thad is deflecting with the incomparable man/woman dichotomy. I’m not a dude, of course i don’t know what it’s like to be a man, unless according to you, being a black female you’re drawing parallels with my being mannish. As for other examples, now you’re splitting hairs!
As you said folks you can ‘discuss’ their being harassed by police for their color, therein lies my point, you don’t live it, so you haven’t a clue. Bet your wives though would know more from first hand experience, being non-white, the ‘other’. But you can toss a book on the subject here, wipe a tear and pat a back there, hold a hand there, but personal experience? i think not.
I applaud white men that continue to enlighten themselves, and support their offspring, but that’s all you can do.
I find it curious that white men continue to fight their previleged role in a white world, choosing to take issue with someone who reminds them of the fact. Either that or you move to a country where you think your minority status cancels that benefit, the same country built on supremacy.
*SMDH*
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Reply to
Merri-May
I thought the issue at hand was “Why so few white men marry black women.” ?
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You’ve chosen to live as ‘gringos’ in Brazil. Where you can align your experiences of facing discrimination with those of minorities.
Merri May, I know that this might come as a big shock to you, butspeaking for myself, I didn’t come here to “align” myself to anything.
Nor has anyone said a damned word about the scale of theracist assault. The discussion has been about whether or not your experience somehowgives you an ineffable understanding of all the experience of all the victims of racism around the world.
It doesn’t.
End of story.
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@ Reginald
Not sure if you haven’t being following up on current events here, but I was referring to the issue that I brought up and was subsequently challenged on, white men and their mixed offspring.
Since Abagond hasn’t removed it i believe the issue ties into ‘why few white men marry black women’ sheesh
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Reginald
@ MerriMay
Ok, I respectfully decline since I cannot speak on what I am not. It is your floor now proceed with your attack. May your point hit home.
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@ Thad
The patronising never ends with you does it? Why would it be a shock?? End of story? because you say so? LOL!
I think the shocker for you Thad has been your inability, kind lecturer, to disprove YOUR own limited understanding that in a wider context POCs face the kind of experiences that you find yourself locked out of, you can only theorize on it.
To tally up Native Americans, blacks, Latinos, Asians as having separate experiences with racism is an appalling naivete on your part. It’s still racism, the brand of which is not meted out by varying degrees of melanin, location or circumstances.
I’m not Arab or Asian or mixed race or any other marginalized person of color across the globe, but as a black woman I understand and experience the basic essence of it.
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Reginald
Who’s attacking?? You interjected mid -discussion with someone else, I answered, that’s tantamount to an attack? interesting, lost me there, lol.
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Reginald
@MerriMay
Thad said damn in his response to you. It sounds like you may have struck a nerve. Was that your intent ? No disrespect to Thad. Pretty strategic move. I need to keep an eye on your comments also. You show promise. Have you read the “Art of War” by Sun Su (phanetically spelled), If not then you should. It is required reading at Harvard and Yale law schools. It has helped me tremendously in many life situations. I hope I am not helping to create a Raptor. Just kidding. Keep coming MerriMay.
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Reginald
MerriMay
It sounded like a mental attack to me by the way that you arranged your wording. If you were just speaking facts then it sounded a bit aggressive. Or was that just my perception ?
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@ Reginald
Will put that into my required reading list, thanks.
g night folks!
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Sorry, didn’t intend to be aggressive, maybe my writing style comes across that way, was taking the good with the bad I guess…I felt belittled and patronized during the ping pong…I won’t stand for that! You arrived in the middle of it and got sprayed, lol.
Again apologies to Reginald if you felt attacked!
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@Merri May:
“Patronizing”…. That would be a woman telling a man that she understands the man’s kid better than he does because she considers the kid to be black, just like her?
Seriously, Merri May, you are one of the most patronizing posters on here.
But let’s get this straight: there is no “basic essense” of racism which allows you to instinctively understand, say, the experience of a Native American but which SIMULTANEOUSLY prevents a person you consider to be white from doing the same. Racism is not o coherent, homogenous field. You may not believe that: I do.
I’d classify your belief that you understand the world to be typical of the resident of the so-called “First World” who believes that they live in the center of a panopticon, where everything is easily understandable and laid out for their display and perusal. You can’t even conceive of your own imperial privilege and how it might affect your view of the world because you feel that, as aperson who is prejudiced against in the global center, you somehow magically have an understanding of the experience of every oppressed group on the planet.
And I’m the patronizing, arrogant one? Get over yourself, Merri May: you’re simply a post-modern imperialist.
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As you said. I arrived in the middle of it. Please accept my most heart felt apologies. I will try not to let that happen again. I completely support anyones ability to express themselves without being rudely interupted as I did to you. Please continue to say what you mean and mean what you say. Your opinions also deserves to be heard. Some of your comments are also quite profound. Your writing skills are superb. Are you a columinist for a newspaper ? You have a lot of ability, Maybe you are a Pulitzer Prize winner contender? If I had your ability to write, thats what I would do. Your writing is sharp and crisp and very much to the point. You have a God given gift. I hope you use it in a professional way. A lot of people would love to read your commentarys. You are a natural. Good luck.
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We’re cool Reginald, apology completely accepted 🙂
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I didnt read the first comments on this post until now…Lord have mercy.
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You are funny Y.
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ML: It seems you are a misogynist and racist. Not because you are white, but because the views you express on this blog indicate this. Not trying to flame you and this is not meant to be an ad hominem; just letting you know in case you are not aware of this.
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No you get over yourself Thad,
You said:
”“Patronizing”…. That would be a woman telling a man that she understands the man’s kid better than he does because she considers the kid to be black, just like her?
Comprehension is your friend Thad, you two should get aquainted. I did not say I understand his son because I’m black. I don’t know him, he could be a skateboarder, I’m a windsurfer, same kinda board, different matter. He could be a morning lark, I’m a night owl. Of course i don’t know him. His father who lives with him would know him better than I. This is where we part ways Thad. I said the experience of racism at the hands of a supremacist world, yup, I’ll keep saying it, he and I would be on that same board of the ‘other’! We would be side by side on that police bonnet in handcuffs. White daddy wouldn’t. Why are you fighting this simple fact??
You said:
”But let’s get this straight: there is no “basic essense” of racism which allows you to instinctively understand, say, the experience of a Native American but which SIMULTANEOUSLY prevents a person you consider to be white from doing the same. Racism is not o coherent, homogenous field. You may not believe that: I do.”
You’re right I don’t believe you, am I supposed to take your word for it?
So says the white previliged guy who wouldn’t know first hand, so it’s not even worth addressing.
In conlusion you’re calling me a post modern Imperialist?? This from the same white guy who shoves his own cooked up beliefs into black people’s throats, all the while undermining, triviliazing and belittling their own real life experiences at the hands of men like himself?? Black women whoring themselves to their rapists you said, the concept of ‘black’ or ‘white’ doesn’t exist blah blah blah! Hasn’t the irony struck you yet Thad? It’s your way, because you say so right?? End of story as you told me in another post?
The white man has spoken, I should STFU right? what do I know?
Now I know it’s the liberals like yourself that are to be watched, at least No Slappz doesn’t bother to hide his disdain for black people.
Get over yourself mister.
You’re having a laugh!
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Natasha W:
Yes I know, and I don’t make a big effort trying to hide it either. Being a misogynist and racist, does not mean I dislike women or people of other origins. Surprisingly this was too much for the Christian American middle class. I seriously did not think these were over the line of common good taste.
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Ok, Abagond, I just read your moderation rules. I used to many f…* words. Apologies, I will moderate myself next time. So I guess I’m cool whit you removing my comments anyway.
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ML,
“Yes I know, and I don’t make a big effort trying to hide it either. Being a misogynist and racist, does not mean I dislike women or people of other origins.”
??? *confused*
You might need to grab a dictionary sometime soon.
“Surprisingly this was too much for the Christian American middle class. I seriously did not think these were over the line of common good taste.”
I don’t know who you are referring to with the phrase “Christian American middle class.”
But I have to ask: wat planet are you from? Wanting to degrade and inflict harm upon the opposite sex and other ethnicities is in “common good taste?” Did you land here via a time machine from 18th century America? Please tell me you are just trolling for reactions.
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Merri, by your logic, in the case of my son, only a bi racial father with also bi nationality could only really understand my sons experiance.
I already said I dont really understand what its like to be black and feel white racial discrimination agianst blacks.
I just said ,in passing, that being an immigrant in Brazil has given me a taste of discrimination, and, I have been stopped by the police for it, but, I thought I made it clear that it didnt mean I really understand what it is like to be black and experiance cold blooded white racism against a black person.
And , guess what, no, I dont see how it in any way it prevents me from raising my son to deal with the world.
If you, or anyone else, wants to get into a deep visceral argument about that, bring your lunch and lets get this argument on….
And , Ill tell you, he has more problems for having an American name than anything. He has had to run up with anti Americanism from professors in many classes he has taken in school,listened to lots of anti American bunk from colleagues.
Dealing with his bi racialism is only a small part of what he has to deal with.
I have much more of a problem putting him through a Brazilian school system since I have no idea what its like or what he is suposed to know, since I never went through the Brazilian school system…I dont even know the holidays…he ditched a bunch of school days telling me it was a Brazilian holiday….hahahahahahah
does that diminish my ability in any way to raise him and prepare him to meet the world….heck no
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I said the experience of racism at the hands of a supremacist world, yup, I’ll keep saying it, he and I would be on that same board of the ‘other’! We would be side by side on that police bonnet in handcuffs. White daddy wouldn’t. Why are you fighting this simple fact??
Because it’s not “a simple fact”. It’s a rhetorical position based on a gross simplification of how racial relations work out in the real world.
Let’s look at reality, Merri May: WHERE would you be “side-by-side on that police bonnet in hand-cuffs”? In the south in the 1950s? Perhaps. In Apartheid South Africa? Perhaps.
But in Brazil in 2010? Merri, a white Italian just got busted here for kissing his black kid because someone thought that situation could only be a tourist sexually exploiting a Brazilian girl.
Here, B.R.’s alot more likely to end up handcuffed side-by-side with his son on the police bonnet than you are.
I can just see it now: white guy in favela talking to dreadlocked son after a show. Racist cop comes along and BAM! Another tourist arrested for suspicion of buying drugs.
The problem, Merri, is that racism does not always play out in the unilateral lines you are proposing: not in the real world.
You’re right I don’t believe you, am I supposed to take your word for it?
Nope. Provem your hypothesis that racism is a coherent and homogenous field. Show us evidence that’s more compelling than the evidence it is not. Show us that it works in the same way, all around the world, all the time.
It doesn’t. That’s quite easily observable. Even the underlying value of white supremacy does not create the same phenomena everywhere. Assimilation, for example, generates different practices, dilemas and beliefs than segregation, for all that both are racist and based on white supremacy.
You seem to be saying, Merri May, that like causes produce like results. We know for a fact that this is not true in chaotic fields of action such as human culture.
In conlusion you’re calling me a post modern Imperialist??
Yes, I do. You seem to feel that your experience as a Londrina allows you to essentially understand the experience of every PoC in the world when it comes to racism. That is essentially an ethnocentric belief. When it is backed up by the super power and global mobility vouchsafed to you as a ciizen or resident of the metropolitan center, it becomes imperialism.
Black women whoring themselves to their rapists you said, the concept of ‘black’ or ‘white’ doesn’t exist blah blah blah!
I know that you’re pissed because someone has the gall to argue with you and point out certain of your own ethnocentric flaws. And I admit that you have a right to be pissed for me calling you arrogant – though that was in strict response to your tossing about names at me. But there’s no need to lie about what I have said in the past, Merri May.
I have never said black women whore themselves to rapists – those were your words. I have never said “black” and “white” don’t exist: like Abagond, I have said that they don’t exist as biological races.
You apparently believe that they do, giving you something in common with Steve Sailor, RR and No_Slappz.
The world’s a strange place.
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@ B.R
The last I’ll say on this topic veeery simply is, I did not undermine nor question your parental acumen. That would be calling you a bad father which I didn’t.
Not being able to understand some experiences he might go through is no indictment on your being a father!
To borrow Thad’s man/woman mutual sub classes if you have a daughter going through her period(sorry!) as a father you can hug her and spoil her or be her ibuprofen dealer for a few days but being a man you simply cannot understand what it’s like. That job could be relegated to mom, a woman. That millions of women (the ‘other’) would ‘get’ it, or therein the nuances of being moody, depressed,teary,or the pain of it are symptoms of an experience you will not understand. On their own I’m sure you’ve felt them but not as a result of it.
And no, it wouldn’t prevent you from preparing her to deal with it, or him in this instance.
you said:
”Merri, by your logic, in the case of my son, only a bi racial father with also bi nationality could only really understand my sons experiance”
Nope, maybe you meant by YOUR logic then only his identical twin would get it, because if you want an exact duplicate experience that can only be accomplished if the two are the same, I think there have been studies on those disproving it(identical twins..another topic) and that is not what I’m saying!
I hope you understand, not sure if I’m making sense…bottom line I’m not questioning any white father’s ability to parent, heck Sandra Bullock just adopted a gorgeous black baby, she’ll love him to bits of course, even prepare him..but heck that’s supremacist white America (like other Western nations)she can only be there to hold his hand.
As you said as a white man in Brazil you’ve had a taste of it, but by your own admission you don’t understand the ‘being black’ stuff …so I guess we’re on the same page here…
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OK, Merri, I hear what you are saying, now….
And, as I have said, I dont think I have had the black expericance of cold blooded racism and discrimination, so, I agree with that I can only comfort on the side …
For sure, that is what goes on with my son now if he has a binational or biracial issue he has to deal with, I can only comfort him from the sidelines, or go to bat for him if he needs me to stand up to something….but for sure, he is experiancing it himself…
and Id like to see him deal with the red head experiance!!
(just kidding)
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Abagond, what is with the white guy lecturing POC on racism?
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@ Thad
We’re sweating the small stuff again..
you said:
”Because it’s not “a simple fact”. It’s a rhetorical position based on a gross simplification of how racial relations work out in the real world.
Let’s look at reality, Merri May: WHERE would you be “side-by-side on that police bonnet in hand-cuffs”? In the south in the 1950s? Perhaps. In Apartheid South Africa? Perhaps.
I’d like to know Thad, as a white person, how are you qualified to tell any person of color, the ‘other’ about their racial experiences in the West, whether it’s Canada, US, Australia, Europe, heck it’s been known to happen in South Africa as well??Besides your self imposed status as a’Gringo’ in Brazil and occasional dalliances with prejudice in again, a country built on supremacy, or lecturehall anecdotal evidence from ethnic students to project onto the whole world as an authority on the subject? what have you got to offer besides that??
These experiences POCs grapple with aren’t a throwback to the 60’s South or apartheid South Africa and to imply otherwise is another huge oversight on your part.
To undermine the global scale of racism or colonial effects which are demostrated on something as simple as.. say debates on this blog, which I assume is frequented by POCs all over the world.
As many times as we say so over and over why do you still feel you are an authority on dictating on how bad it is for POCs out there?
I’ve lived in Sa, Canada, Germany, England never ceases to amaze me how similar POC experiences are in a white world, middle class, poor, professional, etc. I don’t know individual POC’s obviously from cans of paints, but funny how they’re tainted with the same brush. Black/Brown/Other.
Btw I’m not pissed at all, I genuinely want to understand.
FYI i have nothing in common with racists like No Slappz or steve Sailer. Sure there are no biological races ‘black or ‘white’, funny though that doesn’t translate out into the real world does it? Phenotypically I’d say they are.
That will be like saying a black woman and a white man have about equal chances in the real world, all things being fair, yes, but come on that’s bollocks.
Your defense of slave/master relations are perhaps better discussed in the appropriate topic where I’ll point out where you questioned some cases of rape.
As for your continual calling me an imperialist….smdh
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Also, Merri, I have to admit, when I think about it, if my son has a problem because he is part American, well, by gosh, that is the issue we can really bond on , because I am American and can relate to it.
So, if he had an issue with racism because he is part black, I could see how a black father would be able to bond with him on that issue.
It is just that there are so many issues that come up, that some , I can relate personaly to, and the rest by being sympathic with his plight.
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Natasha W
I’m not sure if you getting confused because I’m using bad English or I’m claming to be a misogynist and racist and at the same time claming I don’t dislike women or people of other origins.
English is my second language, so I sometimes get some syntax errors without being able to see it myself. I’m not Greek ether so I had to google it.
I’m a racist and it is no points hide that fact. I’m a racist because I favour my own kind before others and generalize. I also favour some kind of people groups before others based on generalization. I mean things about groups/race based on generalization. Based on generalization, I do even dislike some groups of people.
My generalization is often based on own experience with too few individuals. On these blogg I have openly shared that I don’t think to highly about people from Pakistan, I don’t like French people very much either. In fact this racism against French I have pooled quite far, I on purpose give poorer service, and pretend I can’t speak English and refuse having them as customers because they are French.
Yes, you can call me a misogynist, because I do se most women as sex objects before anything else. I do not think to highly about feminists, yet I do tend to end up with them. I think that women often can be smarter and better to hire than men, if they work alone or not are in majority.
Thinking that some people in general are smarter than others, and that women in general are some “ pain in the a…*” individuals, who from time to time need to be corrected, do not disqualify you from love and respect someone who is black and female. But you still a racist.
I could used a thousand arguments claming that I’m not a racist, Agreed in all the bullsh…* in these blogg, but I still would be a racist, so why not live it out.
Same with the feminists, you can agree as much as you want, for them you will always be a dam prick.
If you gone talk to these people and pretend you’re not a racist or sexist, or even defend you not a racist or a sexist, you must always guard your words carefully.
One woman on these blogg seriously thinks that her man never watches porn. I’m 100% sure he does, he just a good liar. Think about the altitude of fall when she fines out. I even list up porn as a hobby in my CV, eventually they gone find out anyway.
Who I’m referring to as the Christian American Middle class? Isn’t that pretty much all of you Americans who can afford a PC whit internet, cares about fine art, manners, level of education and get offended by bad language or people with the wrong thoughts ? In this case I thought it was unnecessarily and bourgeois to delete my comment.
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I find this a very interesting article, being a white female living in a majority African-American, lower-income city. I have been asked out by several African-American men and although I find them attractive, my main reason for not wanting to pursue a relationship with them is, 1) there are still many cultural differences which would be hard to adjust to on both sides 2) our worldviews are not in-sinc at all either. I think this could be the same problems you would typically run into when looking at a white man dating/marrying a black woman. My thing is, which is easier to marry someone of your own race and background? or to marry someone who both of you will have to work very hard to agree on how to treat each other’s racial issues when they come up? Because something that will offend a white person may not necessarily offend a black person and vice versa.
That’s just my two cents for what it’s worth. 🙂
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In all my experiance of interracial dating, racial issues between each other were the absolute least of the problems on the table.
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I have to agree with B.R. here. Gender was much more of a problem than race.
With regards to my current marriage, Ana and I have had remarkably similar upbringings, in spite of our different races and nationalities (and gender, of course). I do not think race and nationality are at all determinative of someone’s “world view”.
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I have been reading through all of these comments about many people (people from both sides) who have made generalizations about the opposing race. Lets make one thing clear. Everyone has a preference and everyone also has a comfort zone and that is ok. Is it a problem if a man or women says they do not prefer overweight people for a mate? Many would get offended but it is a preference, not racism. Myself, I prefer black men and guess what guys, it has nothing to do with penis size, in fact, I have never even been with a white man to be able to compare although I have been with a asian and have witnessed that there really is not much of a difference. It all feels them same. Yea, I know that hurt some of ur ego’s but it is true.
As far as my black ladies out there, I truly feel bad for you. I feel bad because people have already made generalized opinions about who u r before ever getting to know you. My best friend grew up with a wonderful, educated and secure black mother and father and has since ended up marrying a white man who currently sits in jail for abusing their 4 month old daughter. It is interesting how when a white man looks their way, it is usually only the scum bags who want to divide and conquer instead of those who can look at a beautiful black women, maybe even one who seems angry and instead of thinking she gonna be aggressive or she’s gonna think my penis is small, he thinks to himself wow, she must have been really hurt in her past and I want to treat her like the queen she deserves to be treated as. Did you ever stop to think that instead of rejecting someone out of fear you could make a difference in that person’s life for the better? Of course not because the men who let probable aggression and small penises get in their way of love usually aren’t thinking about love, they are thinking about sex and they are concerned about aggression because they know whether it is conscious or subconscious that they have no intentions of sticking around. White women deserve men who are better than that and black ladies most certainly do too. To all the black women out there, I am so sorry that you are constantly the ones who have to be subjected to these losers.
As someone of mixed race (Puerto Rican and White) I have witnessed the white side of my family making judgement and generalizations about alot of different people. That is just the way alot of them are because instead of doing the research, they go onto BET and watch a bunch of black woman shaking it in the club for money in a music video and allow that to define an entire race of women and then assume that is how they all are. It is for this reason alone that I am not very close with the majority of whites in my family.
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THis website is disgusting. I had no idea there was so much racist anger in this country. I’m “white” (It’s a uniform block, you know) and I’ve never heard white people have these opinions. Shame on you.
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i can honestly say i am seeing more bw/wm now. I saw two couples yesterday. One was holding hands, the other i saw kiss, so i can only assume they were together. I am really suprised that I am seeing more these days…maybe things are changing???
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married to a white man for 3 years-happily married and I am seeing more couples like us and I’m glad of it! I feel people should open their hearts and minds to new or different things. I am glad my husband and I weren’t so caught up in race because we believe that we’ve find our soul-mates 🙂
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This entire topic is unnecessary and only brings about controversy. Many of the comments on here are ignorant and based on emotion rather than logic, but with that being said, I think the true explanation for why black women and white men do not marry as often as other race combos is simply irrelevant. It is discussions like this that prolong the racial tension that exists in America. People marry for many reasons, but when people love, it is honest and deep. If a white man never loves a black woman, it does not mean he is racist; it could be because he never got the opportunity, or he never made a connection/didn’t have the chemistry with her. (It could be the same on her part). What matters is that we each find some one to love, and we shouldn’t feel pressured to justify our tolerance due to a lack of marriage statistics. I definitely think that interracial relationships should be accepted, and even encouraged, but every one has a right to love and they shouldn’t be demonized because they exercised that right in a certain way.
The appropriate discussion would be what many of the people above have said about preconceived notions/stereotypes/closed-mindedness about race and culture as a whole. Improvements there would improve all race relations greatly.
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Hiya
I would just like to say that im indian not black but im with a white guy
Living in the U.K. i dont think it’s white men being racist. having alot of white guy mates. . i know that colour really doesnt matter. its all about the attitude of the woman. i mean if a black woman is in a relationship with a white guy and everythine they agrue she brings in her skin colour then i think men just get intimadated by it.
Also being from an indan family i know race means alot to my family. they all wanted me to marry a traditional indian boy, where as i’ve always found white men attractive. and they understand me coz i love being an indipendant woman. Maybe its the black women who are just a little affraid of telling their community that they are with a white guy coz i know i had to go through hell to be with my man.
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I think it really comes down to where do white men meet black women? They really would have to leave their cultural barriers (physically) and venture out. Whether we want to admit it or not, we still live in a self-imposed segregated society.
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@yasmin
Sh*t would really hit the fan if you were dating a black guy!
LOL!
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yasmin says,
Maybe its the black women who are just a little affraid of telling their community that they are with a white guy coz i know i had to go through hell to be with my man
laromana says,
yasmin, I can’t comment about the BW in the UK, but in the U.S. there are plenty of BW that are NOT “afraid of their community” and who are open to being in relationships with WM. In fact, IRR marriage was legalized as a result of a BW/WM couple (the Lovings) back in the 60’s.
Historically, it’s been WM who have been AFRAID of LOSING STATUS for being in an IRR with a BW.
Sexy Filipino Women says,
I think it really comes down to where do white men meet black women? They really would have to leave their cultural barriers (physically) and venture out. Whether we want to admit it or not, we still live in a self-imposed segregated society.
laromana says,
This may have been true in the 50’s but it’s DEFINITELY NOT the TRUTH now. Many BW grow up, go to school and work with WM.
It’s NOT IMPOSSIBLE for WM to meet BW in this day and age.
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Vindicator
Hahahaha someone knows the asian community very well
My brothers actually commented on that. and said at least he aint black or a jew. I could never really understand my family or alot of asian families are rasist coz. . .were all human at the end of the day
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Yasmin said:
“Vindicator
Hahahaha someone knows the asian community very well
My brothers actually commented on that. and said at least he aint black or a jew. I could never really understand my family or alot of asian families are rasist coz. . .were all human at the end of the day”
My friend (a black guy) used to date a south asian women a few years ago and got alot of flak from her family.
So much flak that he got the c*** beaten out of him by her brother and his friends. 😦
Don’t worry though my friend got his revenge by beating the c*** out of him, putting him in the trunk of his friend’s car, driving him to a remote place, stripping him butt naked in the middle of winter and leaving him there! 🙂
Yasmin,
You should p*** your brothers off by dating a Black Jew! LOL!
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I will never understand why Asians in the UK feel they are so much better than blacks, the fact is they are not!
Contrary to Yasimin’s case there are far more relations between blacks and whites than Asians and other groups!
The Asian community is far more likely to marry out one of it’s sons and daughters to a cousin/relative or friend in the Indian subcontinent than a black or white.
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@MerriMay:
As I don’t live in the UK, the Asians you’re referring to are East Indians, correct? At first, I was confused. So what are the Asians called who look like…me? 😉
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I do not speak for all white men. I met my lady when we were graduate school. I have been in a relationship with a black woman for over 4 years and we are planning to get married soon. Does racism have to do with the low rate of black women to white men? Sure, but it is not one sided. Black women have a lot of issues dating white men, from being afraid of betraying their “blackness”, to showing up to family with a white man, and sometimes even “after slavery, how could I!”. Of course their is the racism on the other side. In my relationship, one of the biggest differences/problems we have is our mothers. My mother is very close to my partner but my girlfriend’s mother, is very spiteful/hateful towards me and always tells her that the problem is me being white , it wont last, that she is just a “n-word” to me at the end day and she shouldn’t forget that she is black.I get a bit upset when she tells me when her mother tells me these things. I am not naive either, I know the tensions that would normally come from my side of the family. I was raised in some of the deepest south you can be raised in but fortunately my family has been very open to us and i respect them for it, though i know the reality is that they themselves would probably not step outside their race but they have never said anything to not support me. In my situation, the black family is the one who is unable to try and change.
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leigh,
Yes Asians in the UK refers usually to Indian, Pakistani, Bangladeshi and Sri Lankan. I’ve noticed that with Chinese Filipino and Japanese they are normally called by their individual nationalities. Strange huh? there are just not a lot of em here to warrant lumping them all into one identity.
At least that’s been my impression.
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@MerriMay:
I’ve always wanted to know why EIs, Pakistanis, Bangladeshi, and Sri Lankans were called Asians in the UK. And now I know. Thank you for the clarification. 😀
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When you get here Leigh they’ll roll out the red carpet because there aren’t many filipinos around. When too many come in is when the novelty wears off, it sours the relationship with the Brits.haha I kid ha!
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I have never seen a race so interested in ours,like whites are towards blacks! The internet is a slick way now to be racist. There is not person to person , hiden behind computers and opinions! I read these threads everyday. Most post are by white people asking stupid questions like:” Why are black women angery”, “Why do you guys not date white men””Why are black people loud” Why this why that! LIKE EVERY INDIVISUAL PERSON IN THAT RACE ACTS THE SAME, AND HAS ALL THE ANSWERS FOR EVERYONE! Bull shit ass studies don’t prove shit but start controversy! Why have we been your main case study since slavery! Answer that? Why are you even on here comparing us to you guys!Our cultures are different we have proven this! Stop posting such stupid topics. I never get how a group of people could bring another to a country for free labor, and end up so hateful towards them and jealous! Then wonder why some blacks hate them back! like our hate sould be claimed down, like we should be coloniested with white culture because the white ways are the right ways! NEVER understood why whites always asked stupid questions like the whole race acts the same! then when they ask it quick to say i’m not racist no! You have some hate towards us even if you don;t to be on a thread that directs a point towards blacks! This points bothers you or you wouldn’t be on here! We, as people have hate towards other races every since we noticed race, color, culture, relgion which is the bigest!We, all have hate towards a group of people wither we admit it or not . Why because we notice difference first! Post like this only sir up controversy and self hate and mess. Stop the mess if your so courious about your studies on why a black woman does this or a black person does that!Go out in public, break the mode. Have a conversation with one and ask in a manner way! I’m tried of these studies and experiments on blacks. it’s just skin people it’s just hair, and features we all bleed ‘RED’!
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I am a 45 year old intelligient, passionate black female. I would say about 95% of black females only have relationships with black males, but not me. The last 20+ years I’ve only had relationships with white males, my choice. I was married for 10 years and have 3 biracial kids. I just get along with them better. Maybe because it’s just what I’m used to, I grew up in a all white neighborhood, and my step father was white, my mother was biracial And now I’m engaged and planning a spring wedding, to a wonderful guy.
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My husband is white and I am attracted to his character and that we enjoy so many of the same interests. We are both educators and understand the signigicance of essential skills of having a loving and purposeful relationship in our marriage, family life, and daily living.
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I’m a white English male and I have a wonderful black girlfriend from Zim.
I must say that over the last few years I’ve become really attracted to Black girls. My parents being quite traditional did have a slight (unspoken) issue in the beginning but as soon as they met her it past within moments. But like wise it was the same for her and her parents. So in actual fact I think this is more because of pressure from parents than actual attraction.
I can honestly say to all the white men out there that there are some seriously wonderful, charming, sexy, intelligent black girls out there who would make excellent girlfriends, lovers and wives. Culturally, those who are directly from Africa tend to have very strong families so they are much more balanced, down to earth and I believe more genuine than a lot of white girls.
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I appreciated reading this and I was especially appreciative of the suggestion that black women feel invisible to white men. This has been my experience and it seems that when I say this to white women or white male friends, they have no idea what I am talking about. It seems that since there are few black women, where I live, I have had few people to check this with. I had a friend visit from out of town and she experienced the same thing and I felt so held by her experience and felt less crazy. Some have suggested that it’s just me but I know that there is something much deeper going on. I am personally quite attracted to white men but they just don’t seem to be that into me.
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Dear Isha,
In the past, I have had wonderful relationships with with white men…and like you I am very attracted to them. However, I moved from a big city to a small town and things have changed for me. I don’t even get noticed. I’ve never been asked out, not even once. My BFF who happens to be a white man says he’s sure that I am ‘just not paying attention.” On the other hand if someone is interested in you or is attracted to you, they will find away to approach you. Won’t they?
This so called fear or intimidation has nothing to do with it, in my humble opinion. Because when you are the minority (1 black to every 30 white/asian/hispanic) as I am in this town you tend to standout a little bit more. So if you are looking to meet someone special you better be more than approachable…you had better shine and let you friendliness, intelligence, sense of humor, humility and every good quality that you possess show. Which I try my best to do.
By the way, I’m a little shy sometimes and I know that I am attractive (I am pretty) but am very modest at the same time, as there is no need to be conceited.
Yet and still, just being my ordinary self is not enough to draw them; not even the few that I have gone out of my way to quietly approach. It’s very discouraging, especially when you have an inherent attraction for them.
Perhaps someday our plight will be reversed. Although, there are other groups of men who are just as worthy of our time and attention.
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Please don’t use the term “Anglo American” to refer to all people of European ancestry as it only refers to English Americans. The broad “white” term you use to describe us minimizes our cultural heritage. I am Irish American, whites are also Italian American, Spanish American, Dutch American, French American and many other ethnicities.
If I were to refer to an Jamaican American as an African American, I assume you would be offended as well. Please afford those of European ancestry the same courtesy.
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Erik,
I hear you (believe me, I do), but you must wonder how relevant that is to the subject of white men marrying black women. Are non-Anglo American whites any different than the rest of whites when it comes to this? It would be interesting to hear.
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Erik, “Anglo-American” I think refers to whites in America, as an English-speaking and English-influenced country. And Jamaican Americans are referred to and presumed to be African-American. Just ask the Census.
Mira, I think non-WASP white men are a bit different when it comes to the subject.
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@Natasha
Erik, “Anglo-American” I think refers to whites in America, as an English-speaking and English-influenced country. And Jamaican Americans are referred to and presumed to be African-American. Just ask the Census.”
I think the media is probably the only ones to call us “African American”…as for the Census, either they break down into vague “racial” categories or list every nationality because to me, the US census is silly.
A caribbean advocate group is pushing for clarification on the US census.
http://www.jamaicanforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/21536-caribbean-community-pushing-for-recognition-in-us-census/
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Linda, I don’t necessarily agree with it, but that’s the way most people of African descent in the U.S. are generally perceived and known: “African-American.” Even Barack Obama is on the Wikipedia page for “African-American.”
People tend to want to put people into neat categories and, at first glance, no one would be able to tell the difference between a Jamaican-American and traditional African-American. I thought Busta Rhymes, Heather Hadley, and Notorious B.I.G. were African-American, but it turns out they are of Jamaican descent.
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*I meant to say Heather Headley is of Trinidadian descent.
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Yeah, most people look at Jamaican and Americans as black, until you speak..
I don’t think most people can tell the difference between Korean or Chinese either, I believe they got to choose their respective countries on the Census.
…the people you mention are entertainers and so, to me, it’s the media that lumps people together unless that person states, “I’m… “…like Obama who chose to call himself African American…
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I can tell the difference between a Korean person and Chinese person most of the time, but I’ve had a lot fo exposure to the various Asian ethnicities.
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@Natasha, although the term has been perverted by those without a sense of history, Anglo comes from Anglo-Saxon, which are the descendants of the English and thus English Americans. I understand the current connotations but when you realize that in the past the English tried to “breed out” the Scottish and took away national sovereignty from the Irish, you’ll forgive some of us if we’d like that distinction made clear.
Incidentally I actually worked for the census and while I certainly understand the need to distinguish different types of Asian ethnicities, I don’t know why the same courtesy wasn’t extended to blacks and whites. I’ve known several Ghanan Americans who don’t consider themselves African American but rather Ghanan American. Same with white ethnics, including myself at times.
@Mira, I can’t speak for all white men but I can certainly speak for myself. I’ve dated/slept with/hung out with several black women. Personally it comes down to the same two things with every race for me, looks and personality. Generally I find myself attracted to more white women, but only a slight advantage with most races coming in more or less equal in the looks department. As far as personality, that’s where the differences become more apparent for me. I would prefer a woman with similar interests and tastes as me and many black women simply don’t share those tastes. If they ask what music I like and I respond with Guns N’ Roses, Megadeth or Led Zeppelin I can be looked at with blank stares. Generally it comes down to similar interests.
The black women I have dated have enjoyed the same things I enjoy. Whether it’s the television show Lost, Star Wars, The Beatles or NPR, we like the same things.
I think it can simply comes down to culturally what people of different races can be almost curved towards liking based on what society thinks we will enjoy.
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Erik,
I must admit I don’t know much about US census, but I thought you’re able to select your ethnicity (not race), be it Asian or any other.
As for dating, yes, similar interests are important. It sure helps if a person like the same music, movies and books, or enjoy the same hobbies, etc. And while this can be culturally-specific, I know for sure it’s not that strict. There are many people of all races who like rock music, for example. Some might be open about it, others are not if they’re the only ones in their circle of friends who like it- but they exist. So these things are never a good excuse for not dating outside your race (I’m not saying that’s what you do).
Not to mention the simple fact that, at the end of the day, shared interests are not really what makes a relationship last. They are usually not THAT important. Sharing the same values and having similar views on important issues (G N’R not being one of them) is much more important.
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Erik said:
“Please don’t use the term “Anglo American” to refer to all people of European ancestry as it only refers to English Americans. The broad “white” term you use to describe us minimizes our cultural heritage. I am Irish American, whites are also Italian American, Spanish American, Dutch American, French American and many other ethnicities.”
In my glossary I say this:
“Anglo-America – the English-speaking part of North America, particularly the white Protestant part of it.”
I am not thinking of English Americans but mainly of Anglos as opposed to Latinos.
“Anglo-America” was used in this post in regard to the One Drop Rule. Irish Americans in my experience most certainly apply the One Drop Rule.
When I say “white” I am thinking mainly of assimilated White Americans, though based on comments much of what I say seems to apply to English-speaking whites in general, like those in Australia, Britain and Canada.
While I understand that “whites are different” and “whites are individuals”, they do act and think in certain common ways.
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Erik:
I agree with Mira: when you are dating someone you are dating an individual, not a race or a culture. We are not stereotype zombies. So instead of stereotyping people you should let them surprise you.
Rock music is an excellent example of what I mean (although rock music rarely makes or breaks a marriage): there are plenty of blacks who like rock music or who are fans of particular bands. Or who would like it if you, Erik, exposed them to it. The most interesting people are those who introduce you to new things – or who allow themselves to be introduced to new things.
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@ Abagond, please update your glossary and instead look up Anglo Saxon. This is not a debate, Anglos are English Americans. Whether people have used that term incorrectly or not does not make it correct. When ignorant people use the term “negro” to refer to African Americans, does that make it correct?
@ Mira and Abagond, I’m not stereotyping anyone. I’m merely giving you my experience that I’ve had a lot of experiences where my likes have not been shared by black women I’ve met. I certainly haven’t said that all the black women I met had those same exact opinions.
Why should I have to “expose” someone to a mainstream television show like Lost or The X-Files? I’m sorry but people have their own interests and when someone tells me that they’re favorite films are Stomp the Yard, the Scary Movie series and Crank then I’m pretty sure we have very dissimilar tastes (and yes that is an actual example of a person I spoke with). If people like something, they can find it for themselves, for me to try to introduce someone to something so I can rectify a statistic that seems to upset people on here is ridiculous. It’s almost like you’re saying that I need to date a black woman to date a black woman, as opposed to actually liking her.
Mira, you’re correct that similar interests are not as important as values, but they get the conversation started and allow you to get to a point where values do matter.
Now Abagond, I want to see if you’re consistent here. You stated that white people do act a certain way. Would you also say that black people act a certain way?
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Erik,
” would prefer a woman with similar interests and tastes as me and many black women simply don’t share those tastes. If they ask what music I like and I respond with Guns N’ Roses, Megadeth or Led Zeppelin I can be looked at with blank stares.”
…I love Led Zeppelin. I’m sure I’ve played “Fool in the Rain” to death. And plenty of my black female friends like rock and related genres of music.
But I wholeheartedly agree with Mira that shared values and point of view are way more important in the long run.
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Erik, Anglo-American is widely used in the sense that abagond uses it. Enough to garner its own Wikipedia page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-America
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@ Natasha, as I said before. I’m not saying all black women don’t enjoy rock, I’m just saying I’ve had a lot of experiences where they don’t. I’m not insinuating that you, as a black woman, don’t like rock music.
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@ Natasha, type Anglo-American in Wikipedia and see what ethnicity comes up.
Also look up Anglo-Saxon. I don’t know if using Anglo to describe white people is purely a black cultural idea but I’ve never in my entire life heard a white person refer to a non WASP or English American as an Anglo.
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I get that. And what I’m saying is: I don’t think it’s wise to base your assesment of a whole group of people on a few individuals.
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Erik,
I wasn’t accusing you of anything. No need to be defensive. All I wanted to say is that shared interests (such as books or music) are not the best explanation on why white men don’t date/marry black women. After all, for any white woman that share a white guy’s interest, there’s at least one (or two!) that don’t. (Same goes for any race). So if it’s just about the shared interest in music and films (that are not really important for a long-term relationship anyway), the percentage of interracial relationships/ marriages should be much higher.
I understand circumstances sometimes don’t work in a favor of a relationship (I was never in an interracial relationship myself for example), but I honestly don’t think that shared interests (or lack thereof) explain why so few white men marry black women.
As for rock music, there are many blacks I met online n various forums or websites. Maybe I wasn’t paying much attention on numbers, but it’s not rare and the percentage is high enough to be significant. Granted, many of them were males, but there are always more guys on rock music sites. Anyway, I honestly had no idea rock was considered a white thing in America. (A post on black or non-white rock musicians would be great, btw).
PS-About “Anglo”- the term is far from being ideal, but that’s just one of the side-effects of living in a racist world.
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Coming across your blog I’m fascinated by how racial issues is still such a big issue even in the 21st century, especially in America, which call itself a country of freedom to everyone, but by reading all these comments here I guess not because as long racial issues exist between all different races in America, they won’t be any freedom for anyone Black, White, Asian, Hispanic, Indians etc…
What I can say is to love those who love you and ignore those who don’t because life is too short and too beautiful to waste it in such vanities of the world, so appreciate all the beautiful things life offers to each of us. Believe me coming from an African country where there’s constant war which I live since my childhood and seeing many people of all ages dying (infants, young and old) you’ll see that all this is just vanity and that people are letting the simple and joyous things of life slip through their hands for material that won’t last, especially in western world…and if God said you were meant to marry this kind of man or woman then believe me no one and nothing can stop it to happen.
Each human being build their own life, happiness is in every one hands, only ourselves have the power to make our life better or worst, it’s true that we cannot have a 100% happy life until our death and their will always be people or maybe circumstances that will try to break us down but that’s why it called “LIFE” there will always be struggle and the stronger one always rise from the fall.
Some type of people don’t like other type of people, we cannot help it and it will always be like that, it’s a part of human nature. I met people who did not like me because I’m black or just they did not like me without any reason(which I found ridiculous) but I will not let it control my life because I’m not expecting to be like by the whole world. Those who would like to know me I’ll welcome them with both arms open wide and those who don’t…well that their decision and I definitely won’t lose any sleep over it.
But I do believe in human nature, I do believe people change when they decide to change, I do believe that one day people will come to live and love each others without any prejudice and accept the differences from one another, I do believe every human being even those who have committed the most horrible crime have a part of good in them, if we just reach out an hand to them when they want to be help and not judge or prosecute them.
You may think that I’m naive or something like that but that how I am and won’t change for anything in the world or because society label me as weird. I love to give chance to anyone, get to know the person before instead of judging or labeling them on what rumors, myths or legends say about them, that’s how I am and cannot help it.
I love looking at the world with a child eyes, I’m happy to have a family and friends who love me, I’m happy to have a full complete body with all it members in place, I’m happy to be healthy while other lay in hospital fighting death…I’m just happy to be ALIVE and enjoy every moment of it. So don’t trouble your heart and mind on why certain type of people don’t love or appreciate you, just content yourself of those who really love you instead of trying to understand why some ignorants don’t, which is a huge waste of your precious life, and the most important of all appreciate to love yourself.
Everyone are beautiful in their own way Blacks, Whites, Asians, Indians, Albinos, Arabs etc…and all this mixture make the world a wonderful place to live and in God eyes we are all the same no one is better than the other, we are all his children…it’s as if you ask a mother who she like the most between her 2 sons, the one who is a doctor or the one who is a thief? and her answer will be that she loves them both the same way and equally and have not a preference, and that’s the same with God, you can be white, black, Indian, asian, etc…he’s love for us is the same and does not love any race better than the other.
Learning to ourselves first will help us to love and appreciate others.
A nice day to all of you.
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Erik said:
“Now Abagond, I want to see if you’re consistent here. You stated that white people do act a certain way. Would you also say that black people act a certain way?”
Most Black Americans do act and think in certain common ways, but it is not in the narrow, stereotyped way that whites like you seem to suppose.
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And now that the discourse has been lowered by Abagond I’ll bid this board goodbye.
I appreciate the respectful discussions with Mira and Natasha and thank you two for that.
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All of you are wrong on the subject of Anglo-Saxons. Anglo-Saxons originated from people know as the Jutes, the Saxons and the Angles. Which later came to be know as the Anglo-Saxons. From this we get the Frisians and the Germans. English people game from West Germanic people who broke into 4 groups. The English, the Dutch, the Frisians, and the Germans. This is why English, German, and Frisian language sound so much alike.
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Abagond is a racist pure and simple.
I’m a white man married to a black woman in NYC. I have many black friends and black in-laws whom I love. Our experience in NYC is we get magnitudes more grief from the black community. We dont get shouted out on the upper east side but if I go to my favorite BBQ place in harlem (Dinosaur) I’m most likely going to get into a shouting match over being with a black girl.
My experience with young people of both sides is that white people are alot further along in dismissing the race issue then black people. When I tell my black friends I dont want to go to the ghetto they immediatley think i’m being racist. Im not being racist I just dont like the ghetto or the ignorant people there. If a white person says one thing thats even remotley is negative towards a black segment it is taken to be racist.
I dont like hill billys or thugs I’m not racist.
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This is NOT true. White men would love to date and marry black women….they have been lusting after black women since biblical times (Cleopatra and Ceasar), one of the biggest things that white men claim to be the reason for not dating or marrying a black women is because they are afraid the black woman won’t be intersted in THEM! Time and time again I have heard white men claim they are attracted to black women ALL THE TIME, but just can’t get the courage to go up and talk to her. This is because of the perception that the media put on black women (and black people in general) that causes the stereotypes that black people are not approachable. Also, white men are attracted to black women with certain features (european features) sort of like how Ethiopian women look. Black women have always been desired by white men, and now in days, its cool to go outside of the “norm” which is why it is more interracial couples now in days=)
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Sara says,
This is NOT true. White men would love to date and marry black women….they have been lusting after black women since biblical times (Cleopatra and Ceasar), one of the biggest things that white men claim to be the reason for not dating or marrying a black women is because they are afraid the black woman won’t be intersted in THEM! Time and time again I have heard white men claim they are attracted to black women ALL THE TIME, but just can’t get the courage to go up and talk to her. This is because of the perception that the media put on black women (and black people in general) that causes the stereotypes that black people are not approachable. Also, white men are attracted to black women with certain features (european features) sort of like how Ethiopian women look. Black women have always been desired by white men, and now in days, its cool to go outside of the “norm” which is why it is more interracial couples now in days=)
laromana says,
Sara, although I agree with you that there have always been WM who are attracted to BW, I don’t believe that MOST WM aren’t marrying BW because “they think BW aren’t interested in them”.
In my (long term) lifetime experience as a BW in America who has always preferred/been open to dating and/ or marriage relationships with WM, I’ve found that MOST WM who claimed to be interested in BW allowed ANTI-BW COWARDICE (the fear of perceived loss of status for being in a relationship with a BW)STOP them from SERIOUSLY DATING and/or MARRYING BW.
Since WM are at the top of the power structure in American society, if MOST American WM decided to treat BW as NORMAL, HUMAN WOMEN who they can SERIOUSLY DATE/MARRY (like they do with NON-BW)we wouldn’t still need to have these discussions in 2010.
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thats true i totally agree with laromana. they are just cowards, yet still they are the ines who should be the “MAN” and stand up…………but i guess everywhere you go you’ll get that……..because in Jamaica where im from, if i (being a black woman) marry a wm i, considered by others to be high class society……..
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Eric says : as I said before. I’m not saying all black women don’t enjoy rock, I’m just saying I’ve had a lot of experiences where they don’t. I’m not insinuating that you, as a black woman, don’t like rock music.
Eric i think you just dont find the right black woman yet………you cant just limit black woman to the few you have dated or met….
personally i dont mind dating a guy who has similar interests as i do, however i would like someone with a little difference… that way it makes the relationship more interesting and there is more to share and learn, and that way you’ll come to enjoy something different…new and exciting.
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I know I said I would stop posting here due to the intolerance and rudeness of Abagond (I enjoy the rest of the posters) but I couldn’t let certain things go.
Cleopatra VII was a Macedonian Greek not Black.
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I wrote a post on that:
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I have been reading a lot of the comments on here about black females not interested in white males, the long painful history, but I must have grown up different and have a entire different outlook.Might be all that classic rock music that I just love. I connect more with white males, as a husband, boyfriend, or just a white guy friend. For me there is no emotionial connection or sexual attraction to a black male. I don’t see the “cool and Sexy that my co-workers see. Nothing turns me on about the way they talk, look or act, it’s the whole persona, and I have dated a few, about 3,one seemed like he was angry at the world. To each their own, right? So that’s just me.
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It’s really the question “Why won’t white guys go on dates with black women?” and Isn’t it the guilt trip. Because none of us white guys are going to see the day when the black community forgives us.
We are always going to be the rapist, slave traders in your minds.
I am not going to play gotcha game. I don’t care about who wins. Because no one is winning. You think you are “winning” when you call white guys racist? Do you think it’s a point for your side when you remind us about a past our fathers fathers can’t remember? What is the score when you our alone on a Friday night? Is it who ever has the most mistrust of the other people wins? You want a trophy?
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this is one of the most ignorant articles i have read on the subject. following this rationale, i guess black men are racist against blacks too since many like white women. racism is not always the answer.
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First off I a support the wm/bw relationship because I myself am interested in dating white males. I don’t have a masters degree and all that buy I have completed some college, I have job, pays well, I have no kids, not on any assistance, very educated, I like rap, pop and rock, and take care of myself (not a gold digger at all, but find it funny that no one calls Kim Kardashian and her family gold diggers, they seek black successful men and her mother Kris Jenner is always trying to find a “black man” with money for one of her daughters). I find the generalizations ridiculous from Robert and mike because ghetto is not a race it’s a culture. How come this is not view ghetto- the white woman that I work with who always cusses, hits office equipment when it she doesn’t understand how to work it, has a husband who has been in and out of jail who cant hold a job, has all these expose tattoos all over him, there children are always getting put out of school for fighting because his parents are always fighting people, and obviously are on drugs? Or how about some foreign people that I run into who speak in there language in very loud tones enough to interrupt everyone surrounding them and pay attention to them, whether their on the phone or talking to each other. That’s ghetto to me. Or what about the white woman on the morning bus that I catch to commute to work, who talks so loudly (to a group of black women) about her life and how she is mad the bus is late. That’s ghetto to me. How come whites never consider that ghetto is not a black thing but a culture. I do not act like any of these examples. As for Lynette, you said that you don’t know of any educated or uneducated bw that are crying home to date white men. What would you say for example, while you are praising your husband to be cream of your crop and your black king, he’s sleeping with a white woman?? Would you praise him if he didn’t feel the same as you? Also Lynette I don’t like that you feel you had to say you have a Ph.D. As if you have to prove something to white people that your educated. Maybe that’s an insecurity but you don’t need a Ph.D to date or converse with a white counterpart. As to Blanc2 I agree with you and abagond I agree with you saying that Robert Lindsay and wm like him have insecurities about his penis size. That is a brainwashing myth that bm use to keep bw with them as if they are the only ones that can satisfy them as explained by dedabets. I have date small black men and have seen white men that can satisfy a black woman lol because reality kings porn proves other wise, but what about all the wm/bw realationships. Robert Deniro only has date black women and had children with black women and married them. Hallie Berry, Sanna Lathan, Iman whose married to David Bowie, Phyllis Hyman, Diana Ross, Kerry Washington, Heather Headley, Paul Waul, Jourdan Dunn, Gabrielle Union, Sanaa Lathan, Garcelle Beauvais, Lela Rochon, YaYa Da Costa, Angela Bassett, Kerry Washington, Sharon Leal, Aisha Tyler, MC Serch, Shia Labeouf (when he was trying to get at Rhianna). And before some of you say white men only want you for sex. Some of us Black women have only been wanted for sex by some black men who use you and white women for sexual purposes.White males I feel have grown to love the curves of a black woman. But they should know more than just sizing us up as ghetto, because I have met some ghetto white, asian and latin, arab women as well. The are just as loud, ignorant and aggressive. And to racerealist why do women in general have to be submissive and why does some women some black women’s aggressive nature scare you? Is it because of your need to be in control is that’s the one thing that you have going and shows your weakness that you prefer and white women and or Asian or Arab which you are entitled to? Submissive does not equal femininity. I would have though you like an aggressive woman on the same page as some aggressive white males, examples (politicians, ceo’s, corporate executives, lawyers, government officials, judges) are aggressive. And there are black people who occupy these positions but follow the white people who had these positions first who were aggressive in nature. I think some men like an smart aggressive black women because of are willingness to overcome adversity and not act like we need to be cared for all the time like the “white princess or china dolls”. I think that white men like that we are strong and have common sense unlike some white women or other non black races and that it is refreshing.
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First off I a support the wm/bw relationship because I myself am interested in dating white males. I don’t have a masters degree and all that buy I have completed some college, I have job, pays well, I have no kids, not on any assistance, very educated, I like rap, pop and rock, and take care of myself (not a gold digger at all, but find it funny that no one calls Kim Kardashian and her family gold diggers, they seek black successful men and her mother Kris Jenner is always trying to find a “black man” with money for one of her daughters). I find the generalizations ridiculous from Robert and mike because ghetto is not a race it’s a culture. How come this is not view ghetto- the white woman that I work with who always cusses, hits office equipment when it she doesn’t understand how to work it, has a husband who has been in and out of jail who cant hold a job, has all these expose tattoos all over him, there children are always getting put out of school for fighting because his parents are always fighting people, and obviously are on drugs? Or how about some foreign people that I run into who speak in there language in very loud tones enough to interrupt everyone surrounding them and pay attention to them, whether their on the phone or talking to each other. That’s ghetto to me. Or what about the white woman on the morning bus that I catch to commute to work, who talks so loudly (to a group of black women) about her life and how she is mad the bus is late. That’s ghetto to me. How come whites never consider that ghetto is not a black thing but a culture. I do not act like any of these examples. As for Lynette, you said that you don’t know of any educated or uneducated bw that are crying home to date white men. What would you say for example, while you are praising your husband to be cream of your crop and your black king, he’s sleeping with a white woman?? Would you praise him if he didn’t feel the same as you? Also Lynette I don’t like that you feel you had to say you have a Ph.D. As if you have to prove something to white people that your educated. Maybe that’s an insecurity but you don’t need a Ph.D to date or converse with a white counterpart. As to Blanc2 I agree with you and abagond I agree with you saying that Robert Lindsay and wm like him have insecurities about his penis size. That is a brainwashing myth that bm use to keep bw with them as if they are the only ones that can satisfy them as explained by dedabets. I have date small black men and have seen white men that can satisfy a black woman lol because reality kings porn proves other wise, but what about all the wm/bw realationships. Robert Deniro only has date black women and had children with black women and married them. Hallie Berry, Sanna Lathan, Iman whose married to David Bowie, Phyllis Hyman, Diana Ross, Kerry Washington, Heather Headley, Paul Waul, Jourdan Dunn, Gabrielle Union, Sanaa Lathan, Garcelle Beauvais, Lela Rochon, YaYa Da Costa, Angela Bassett, Kerry Washington, Sharon Leal, Aisha Tyler, MC Serch, roger ebert, prince of monaco, Shia Labeouf (when he was trying to get at Rhianna). And before some of you say white men only want you for sex. Some of us Black women have only been wanted for sex by some black men who use you and white women for sexual purposes.White males I feel have grown to love the curves of a black woman. But they should know more than just sizing us up as ghetto, because I have met some ghetto white, asian and latin, arab women as well. The are just as loud, ignorant and aggressive. And to racerealist why do women in general have to be submissive and why does some women some black women’s aggressive nature scare you? Is it because of your need to be in control is that’s the one thing that you have going and shows your weakness that you prefer and white women and or Asian or Arab which you are entitled to? Submissive does not equal femininity. I would have though you like an aggressive woman on the same page as some aggressive white males, examples (politicians, ceo’s, corporate executives, lawyers, government officials, judges) are aggressive. And there are black people who occupy these positions but follow the white people who had these positions first who were aggressive in nature. I think some men like an smart aggressive black women because of are willingness to overcome adversity and not act like we need to be cared for all the time like the “white princess or china dolls”. I think that white men like that we are strong and have common sense unlike some white women or other non black races and that it is refreshing.
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@ bwcommentary
Ack, I had to take a deep breath after reading all of that. It’s easier to read when you break things up into paragraphs.
I don’t know if you realize this, but you did the same thing you said Lynette did, you qualified yourself. “Also Lynette I don’t like that you feel you had to say you have a Ph.D. As if you have to prove something to white people that your educated. Maybe that’s an insecurity but you don’t need a Ph.D to date or converse with a white counterpart. ”
At the very beginning of your post you gave a whole biography.
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um no thats not what i did and if you are intelligent enough marci you could just read how i wrote it. I said that i was an educated woman so stop trying to look for something negative to say. I made that statement because some of the white males acted like all black women need to get there selves together and that all black women have lack of education. I was just letting him know that I’m educated. I didn’t say that I’m qualified/ or not qualified to date a white man because of whether i acheive a degree or not. I was making both black and white people know that not all black women act like chicken heads, that are loud and ourageous and so mean all the time. Lynette to me made it seem like shes sooo important because she has a Ph.d . It doesn’t take a Ph.D to love someone for free with no hang ups about the race. Im glad you took a deep breath because you really don’t have to read my reply if you don’t like it.
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I have a hard time believing that you have a Ph.D when you type so poorly, bwcommentary.
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Quick question…how does few white men marrying black women qualify as a “issue”, exactly?
Because neither online nor in person am I seeing an overwhelming host of BW complaining about this. They’re too busy complaining about black men not dating/marrying enough black women.
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Just something I’ve been wondering lately. Granted, I didn’t ponder it quite like this before, but since I’m here….
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Huh? Sorry, I’m not looking for anything negative to say. I just pointed out that you qualified yourself the same way she did. I never said you said you were qualified for anything. Please reread what I said.
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It doesn’t take a Ph.D to love someone for free with no hang ups about the race.
But it helps. 😀
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your right thad. In your experience a Ph.D helps. But guess what, If you read what Lynette said it wouldn’t help you because she doesn’t want you. white man. I was trying to help you out. But maybe, I’m starting to see why some bw won’t date ignorant wm. So I guess it didn’t help. lol.
I was not demoting education folks, so lets get off that. I feel some of you are trying to divert the message I intended to send or just took it the wrong way. And like so many black women do (Marci) is focus on the matters that really was not the focal point. Typical.
Education is important. If you read, I said I went to college. I was just saying that Lynette was making it seem as if she had to deem herself equal to the “white standards” and I was just stating she doesn’t have to throw out there all the time that she has a Ph.D just to prove something to these ignorant wm. I feel black professionals feel they have to do that all the time to prove something to white America that your worthy. And I don’t feel all wm think this way. Just the one’s seeking to say something bad as to why they do not want to date a bw. Because they really can’t find anything in their initial generalizations. That we are all uneducated, ghetto, baby mamams, welfare, loud, agressive sterotypes. We shouldn’t have to prove it. They should see it, or they are not worthy of our love. That’s all I was saying folks.
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And sometimes i feel white men do not want black or half black kids too
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Are you serious? I was simply making a somewhat humorous (at least to me, and I am sure others got it) comment about the fact that you did the exact same thing you were griping about in your one long paragraph/posting. Get a grip. I did what I normally do, and it has nothing to do with race, thank you, but everything to do with being a critical reader. No one likes to read one long paragraph in forums: it’s simply harder to read. I did not launch any ad hominen attacks on you as you are beginning to do on others.
I am not derailing a thread, bwcommentary, you are.
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@bwcommentary
“And sometimes i feel white men do not want black or half black kids too”
I’ll have to alert my dad to this, as well as my brothers-in-law and my ex-husband.
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Here’s the problem BWCommentary, you say I’m “trying to make it seem that black people can’t write”. I didn’t say anything of the sort, I pointed out how badly written your post was. The fact that whenever a criticism comes of a black person, you seem to dismiss it as the massive conspiracy to hold them down as opposed to looking at it for what it is, criticism of someone who happens to be black.
What’s holding race relations back right now is that if a non-black (particularly a white) criticizes a black, it’s viewed as racist, regardless of how topical or spot on that comment may be.
Your comments about “ghetto” white people and “foreigners” are pretty simple to respond to. The woman you described would be referred to by us as “white trash”. We wouldn’t describe her as “ghetto” because the connotation of that word has nothing to do with white people anymore. I don’t want to read you the definition verbatim but it started out in reference to the Jewish ghettos in Europe and then in recent years in America referred to black sections of cities.
Why are you angry about this classification? I’m not angry that there is white trash in the world? I’m not angry that when most of America think of IA’s in politics they think of idiots like Bill O’Reilly and Sean Hannity instead of JFK. The fact is, and I think this might be something you should confront, other members of my race don’t define me. I cannot control what some sleazebag in the midwest is doing when they beat their kids and get hooked on meth amphetamine. I worry about myself and my friends. You seem to take offense when someone insults “ghetto culture”. Go ahead, defend it, it just makes you look insecure and ridiculous in conjunction with it. I don’t defend Trailer Trash America because I’m an intelligent, confident person who’s happy with his lifestyle.
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@bw
think I write very fine Erick.
That might be the case, but this blog is written in English, not Erick.
The paragraphs and proper capitalization does make for easier reading, however.
Also Lynette I don’t like that you feel you had to say you have a Ph.D. As if you have to prove something to white people that your educated. Maybe that’s an insecurity but you don’t need a Ph.D to date or converse with a white counterpart.
Y’know, the more I hear people claim that people with PhDs should keep silent about that fact (as if we’d done something horribly embarassing by going on with our formal education), the more I flashback to that old Chris Rock bit about how education is seen in the black community.
your right thad. In your experience a Ph.D helps.
We really need a “sarcasm” key on the keyboard, because without a specific attribution like that, some comments tend to fly straight over some peoples’ head.
I feel black professionals feel they have to do that all the time to prove something to white America that your worthy.
BW, it’s very hard to not talk about one’s job and qualifications in a system which constantly demands them.
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I think Erick made a mistake in reading one of your posts and I am absolutely certain, having read your replies, that he will never, ever make that mistake again.
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think I write very fine Erick.
That might be the case, but this blog is written in English, not Erick.
—
LOL!
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Look, I am a white male dating a 1/2 black 1/2 white female and for me it has nothing to do with skin color but everything to do with class (both socio-economic and the “class” that one individual has). I think this, along with preference in the looks dept, is the heart of the argument.
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Sure, there are those that are racist w/hate in their souls on both sides who would rather denigrate another’s race before considering dating one of the opposite color. Also there are those who have the slightest desire to date/marry a person of the opposite race for other non hateful reasons (lack of interaction, non attraction, etc). But speaking of the former, we should discount these people (both white men who would be the talk of the family if they brought home a black girl and similarly black girls who bring home a white guy-both which would be jolting in most families still today) as they are, undoubtedly ignorant.
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So what are we left with? Non-racist classes of people. We have low class whites and blacks, middle class whites and blacks, and upper class white and blacks. I would venture to guess that white men and black women (and vice versa black men and white women) date within their socio-economic class as well as date someone with like values/class. I, for one, do not see well educated sharp dressing black women dating scraggly goateed meth smoking and pock marked white guys from the trailer park just as I dont see well mannnered/manicured white guys dating midriff bearing, skin tight jean wearing black girls from the ghetto.
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Like minded and financially similar people date one another. So unless one worries about what other people (friends, family, co-workers) then most people are going to date first and foremost someone that they are attracted to (be it his/her looks, swagger/confidence, personality, humor, riches, etc). Race is always going to be present and, thus, so will racist people. If we stopped rallying around this negative and instead cheered the positive….. it might catch on and become infectious! So maybe one day our children (or dreadfully, our children’s children) will come across a website that just says “most beautiful women” and you wont have to make speculations/assumptions pulled from your own biased life to denounce white people.
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Also, laromana is 100% right about the groups of white males who ARE attracted to black women but wont date for fear of lowering their “status” in society. Sadly, this is still true for some but, again, it was a cowardice outlook on life (to live your life not trying to make one’s self happy for fear of being ridiculed or gossiped about is a sad way to live, imo.) I also think it goes both ways in that particular relationship (black women with white men) as the women get all kinds of friction from both other black women and, definitely, black men. So, laromana hit the nail on the head with her Aug 12 post.
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I deal with this issue every day. It’s wonderful and exhausting – exhausting because I’m always disappointed that people haven’t evolved more on this topic. Perhaps they haven’t challenged their framework and only think they do.
I’m a black woman married to a white man, living in Pennsylvania. People tend to think it’s an issue; that’s amusing/can be annoying. It’s more amusing when people turn red or appear flustered on introduction. This is expressed in the forms of fear and relief, depending on the person. Due to my life experiences, I try not to be critical on this. There are additional factors involved in thoughts on dating/marrying outside of one’s race today.
I think media and society programs how people think and analyze status subliminally so that it keeps them in an emotionally immature state and they either don’t realize or don’t care that they’re not thinking for themselves and storing true to life examples. Based on this and my personal beliefs, racism is never subtle towards black women, even though we say that a lot. It has an insidious nature, as if it’s woven into a fabric where it hides, but I’ve experienced white men exhibit bias towards me at the office. I perform at a high standard, but 8 out of 10 white men ignore my accomplishments. That’s what the behavior looks like. This is not subtle to me. I call it “sexrism.”
Much of the discomfort I see between black women and white men is expressed through sexism and racism, especially at work. Most white men as well as white women would swear these don’t exist. However, black women have doctorates in nonverbal communication, so you might as well be real. It’s a unique degree, gained over longtime observations of those alleged subtleties (i.e., seeming indifference; passive-aggressiveness where the next move has already been anticipated by us; comments that slip; manipulative speech one thinks will appease because they went to Harvard or because they’re white or because they think they’re white). And no, this doesn’t happen to everybody. We try really hard to protect ourselves in sexrist environments, while also shielding from the picking away at our womanhood.
I don’t know how all black women behave towards white men and vice versa, but I know what I like about men in general. I appreciate a man who’s respectful and makes eye contact with me when we come face to face – no matter who he is or isn’t. This shows to me that he is aware of his environment – not just for the purpose of finding me attractive or acknowledging me but that he’s leading his destiny. It may be a type of authority but it’s not the “I’m an authority because I’m male and white” point of reference. When I can’t determine this purpose in a man, regardless of race, I assume the authority myself because I sense he won’t have my back. The man I married is my dream mate based on how he makes me feel in this way and additional qualities that I didn’t order but that make him the man of many women’s dreams.
He is self made. HOT. Lived in cockroach infested apartments in Brooklyn to put himself through NYU Med and became a neurosurgeon. VERY HOT. He’s Jewish but not a momma’s boy. HOT. He did school/fellowships until five years before we met. When he was killing himself in organic chemistry (way before we met), I was going to nightclubs trying to find myself. I didn’t get my Bachelor’s until just after we married and only now about to hit my master’s. I’m talking status now. White Jewish neurosurgeon marries black women with dark skin. Basically, that’s what people see and try to seek reasons for our relationship. It must be sex. We have great sex, but we should, so f-ck that stereotype. Black women are many facets of interesting. He learns things from me that he wouldn’t learn from another white man or woman. I learn a lot from him. He’s a Freudian level thinker so has an unbridled need to go in depth about most topics. We both look good. We’re smart. We laugh. I cook. All the regular stuff. But we’re together because we fulfill each other’s needs and haven’t been bored for seven years. Even still, I have to remind myself not to judge a person through race or judge by anything but actions and communication. When I make the mistake of judging by race or assumptions, I think of my marriage. I think of how people try to stereotype our relationship, us individually, and how we’re nothing like what they think AT ALL. At those times, I laugh, forgive myself and think, ‘This is my life. It’s an education every day.’ Basically, we get to live fascinating lives because of how f-cked up people are.
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Their is a vast differance between,equality, ( AMERICAN doctrine of good intensions) and the maths based concept of equity.50 50% ism, we British are not so stupid to believe in your degenerate thinking, based only on what you believe to be moral or emotive thoughts( the nature of the mobs of Rome) children.Now for an object lesson in the laws of Greek logic, 1 please stand up or the black women that believe in equality, thats right show your stupity to the earth,2Now we come to the truth, based on maths and balance , please stand up ,all the black women that have ,blue green gray, eyes, please stand up all of your race that is always going on about how much you believe in equality , all the blacks that have blonde, red, corn , gold , hair colours. This is an example of the white mans thinking ,their is no equal to it anywere on earth. We in the BNP are commited to racial equity, what is because it is, I Newton. most blacks are liers to the logic of maths, their is a differance between the consept of the absolute truth, and the truth absolute= maths( rac–ic, IC in english means the laws of numbers is real truth ,not what your eyes or mind think, as truth,The bnp will crap- all over your thinking as Americans.Theirs to blacks with 50 eye colours 50 hair colours. THANK YOU.BNP MEMBER, OUR THIRD EMPIRE, next 1000 years, IS BASED ONLY ON MINDKIND, their is no equal to this.
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^ More food less drugs.
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j.’s “Comment” – an excellent example of CLASSIC DERAILING FOR DUMMIES.
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I didn’t even read all the comments on here but Robert Lindsay’s comment here were the most racist and ignorant he must have came across the wrong black women in the past, I am black myself and I am not so angry and loud and scary. and the ghetto black chick thing is a stereo type. maybe if you wouldn’t post your ignorant comments online, you can go out find many nice black women.
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you know what alot of black women is now dateing white men or out their race. especially in hollywood and if hollywood is doing it will soon become a new trend
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Yeah, I wonder if interracial dating and marriage will indeed become a “hot” hollywoodesque trend. That would be interesting to see.
And I indeed think we will see that. After that it’ll probably calm down and an interracial relationship will be nothing special, just a relationship.
In an ideal, progressive world, that is.
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And if I was in love with a black woman (or any woman), I’d love to have a child with her. That’s what we’re her for: to procreate. I have a son already, so I’d love to have a daughter.
Marriage is optional. But if I loved her, I’d marry her. I just don’t put so much emphasis on some age-old ritual. Commitment comes from the heart, not from some authority or custom.
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It’s so sad after centries whites are still starting controversy about blacks. The word “ghetto”, is now a way to discribe a culture towards blacks who are being themselves. Why are blacks like this? Why do blacks not do this? Blacks should this? I see still after years of slavement , and mixing with “blacks”, or “whites “,European(meaning anyone of English, Spaniard, Italian, Dutch, Irish, etc…)decent “, people are still obsessed with blacks as their main target. It all boils down to race. You are and don’t say your not, bother by this partuclar group of people, or else you wouldn’t be making comments calling someone” ghetto”, is not offensive! Yet, still Eurpean and Afro-decent chilldren are the most biracial children statics wise than any other mixtures. It’s like biracial children of Afro-decent and European children have a race of their own it’s so common!You hang around them,Have small conversations with them, but over look the fact they’re the only group of imagrants that where brought here against their WILL, then thrown into this white man world. Told to walk like this, act like this, don’t learn to read, obey world! It’s hard to believe life for them is still bad because of these negitive storotypes, and bad information passed down. Because they don’t act a certain way that is more suited for whites, or European decent people. We don’t date them because their too black! It’s that what it is? In order for us white men to date you, have to be more “whitewish”! Yet, still you don’t see the oppression you put on a group of people when you say that?Huh? Why, is their so a White vs Black all the time issue? Why don’t you stop trying to figure blacks out it’s quite clear that annoys them and me. Or, let’s experiment on them again like the “population control”,( human immune diease AIDS) Yes, it was covered up it was wrong and now it is a crisis not just to African, but most European, and Latina Countries around the world!!! Project gone bad. Isn’t that not going back to the 18th century. Act like us and we will talarate you! DOn’t act like us and we hate you! LEAVE THEM PEOPLE THE HELL ALONE! Hey, if you don’t date Afro-decent women that’s your issue not hers. The whole point of dating is finding someone you have things in common with. If you don’t have anything in common with a black woman, then hell don’t date her. Their are options shit hell seems like, white men date everything but white women these days I can’t tell! It all goes black to skin and race. Proven their are still ignorant storotypes towards “blacks”, today. It is sad It is so, so sad how we as people look at skin and make so many remarks based on a small group of what we see instead of seeing the whole picture that not all are the same. That’s just like saying all Whites are ignorant, have no values, and are racist. It is not true ,and I would like to believe it because I have met many who have broke the mold! Break the mold learn a cultrue before you down it. You’ll see that people are just people and that science can not explain it all!!! Try it stop comparing please you are talking about two completely different races. So, things will be different. What will you white men do when Latinos take over wow! Their population is considered the second now not Blacks. Maybe when blacks become exstint like most Native-Americans they will leave them alone. Because you wouldn’t be aroung many of them, or see them in everyday life to be so obessed about damn! DAMN, DAMN!!!
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lol!!!! Are you people serious. Live and let live, come on grow up! I love everybody as long as they treat me with consideration and respect. The minute you start thinking your above someone else. You’re not. Eric made some really good points. As a BW I found his point of view refreshing. Thank you for showing me that not all WM share the stereotypical view of BW that I have seen so far.
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Stereotype and North American society are the only factors which makes either WM run away from dating BW here or would eventually in Russia, in my honest opinion.
Love and attraction have NOTHING to do with “race” or ethnic backgrounds. A man is a man, let’s make it clear. What I said is so true that I did a vacation to caribbean and Brazil and I had really fun. I did start observe how WM acts in usa. I am White male myself and WM go for asian women in majority while in IR because society. In countries where the society that we made up are more open minded, WM and BW are almost the top of the IR datings or marriage.
Common goals and interests, or just have fun with someone is far away to be a racial clichê. I saw lots of double standards racism in the three countries too. instance
“I’m white MALE, cool, I can date whoever I want, but white FEMALE don’t because in this case it’s dirty”
In my case, I married a black woman after have dated my whole life WW and I did feel something was really wrong, since I had strong attraction for BW my taste. Well, I’m healthy marry and I do 2 children, one from my first marriage and other from my current and probably ’till death break it up, one. 🙂
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* English ain’t my native tonge by the way.
Hannu L@
I agree completely. I’m a black male and I’m all up to integration, in a good way, obviously. I’ve thought the same even while dating inside my ethnic ( so I’m not a hypocrite). In an ideal world, people freely interacting and understanding each other is the real deal. That way further, they will handle any kind problems wisely, w/o major conflicts, .
Carl charles@
I don’t have any sad feellings neither about it nor from what happened in the past with my ethnic. Some folks still insist in the same old known mistakes but then, it goes out with the time. For instance, if I was a bitter bigot, I’d be calling names trying to keep BW isolated from other ethnicities.
And true… double stand racism is still a major problem “I can and you can not!”. In ww/bm forums it is all over the place. I believe in their homes too. Only the white woman who is interested in IR do not see it in my honest opinion.
People tend to think black male is aggressive and miserable but it’s far to be true. The deal is education, fair enough. Some black males have a different way to manipulate hate which unfortunately drives in agressive attitudes. Mainly when you’re not considered part society you live in while a kid. I totally bet any other ethnic would start a real chaos, terrorism, wars and so on if they were desrespected in that constant and degrate level.
I’m glad to say I give props to the black people in welcome everyone and knows how to separate individuals rather than groups, in most cases. Otherwise whites or any other offender group wouldn’t be able to walk in any spot in the world with blacks in it. To be honest, the black population was the one that unconsciously taught the world how to deal with it w/o blows a H Bomb in other people’s head.
By the way, people tend to judge other based in isoled individuals or group of individuals perpetuating the cycle. Instance, when I did meet my white fiance’s parents some years ago, it was really a hell. They thought I was some kind thief and drug addict simply based in my skin color or because in that strong stereotype flying about black males. Even though I was well dressed and expressing myself appropriately.
In this cenario if you’re a parent worried about your kids, you should sit both and talk about life, future problems, and how to deal with them… Also, if the “outsider” represent “danger”, that’s an obligation the parents show responsability, experience and sit with the problematic individual and direct him/her to a better way, if he/she ever want to be part your family. In this cenario, you did not only help your daughter/son, but helped to improve the society as a whole. Done, way maturer and rationally appropriate.
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It’s interesting to see all the anti-White racists bashing White males for not wanting to date Black women in larger numbers.
Gee, maybe all those White guys have stopped by this blog…
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Is it racist for one side to be afraid that the other may be racist? It sounds like people may be avoiding each other on just that chance.
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wow you people are so wow.. this whole topic has become huge aroung the world. and its kinda scary ..im 16 years old and i love all kinda race of people cuz they all sexy. i really think the proble here is the older generation not the younger ones becuz the younger generation was taught by the older generation to date there race and think that they are supreme. that is so wrong becuz we all brothes and sisters and the children of the lord. u c wat the devil is doing o all of us seperation thats wat is happenin. every race is racist thats a fact. i am at a 85% black school and when its break time u c alot all the blacks children together and the white children together. u know wats my biggest fear is that i dont want my kids growing up being based on their race,gender,skinny or not, i want her or him to be happy not to worry bout dieing painfully by a gun or been beaten up for being gay o being gossiped at for her weight or discrimnate cuz of a gender or be judged on her skin i want to be happy to have all the happiness that ive never had cuz of fear and anger. skinheads ,black panter, A.W.B
still live ryt now infront of us.
i wish that all this could just stop.
its all over its like one of thos things you can get rid of like HIV ….
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Very interesting article, not to mention the comments, most of which I’ve been reading for a while now. How’d I find this again? Hmm…
I’m a black gal who grew up around all sorts of people, which my mother supported and encouraged –she told my brother and me and all her other students ‘it’s not about black or white, it’s about green; everybody’s got to eat.’ I was a complete nerd in school. Heck, I still am and always will be, and only for a very short period in middle school was I ashamed of that. I got the usual treatment nerds get, and the thing that hurt me most was that most of it came from other black kids. Other black kids who acted like thugs, used bad English (Vietnamese kids may have had an excuse, but they didn’t), listened to music I didn’t like, were proud of their troublemaking, un-ambitious behaviors. There was mistreatment from white and Hispanic kids too, but somehow there seemed to be less of it. I don’t know why, I just know I hated it and didn’t think much more of the boys (and maybe three girls) behind it. Mama told me either they were jealous of me or that was their way of showing me that they liked me, and I said the latter was one of the stupidest things I’d ever heard. It got old quick, and even through college I chose to ignore dating and instead focused on geeking out and learning more and more about music, chemistry, history, almost anything I could get my hands on.
(I know, I know, “get over it.” It’s not that easy. There’s no switch you can just flip. I try hard not to carry grudges though.)
Then, a little over a year ago when I graduated (official chem nerd now), I admitted to myself there was a certain type of man I rather liked to look at and listen to. That doesn’t mean I won’t say “yes, that Korean guy is gorgeous” or “I like that Indian guy too” or “look at that Scotsman,” but when I finish getting my awesome together I sort of hope to end up with this type. I’m not blaming all black guys for what I experienced when I was a kid (there were some swell ones too, who all happened to feel somewhat like family), but it seemed like I’d be unwanted, so I quit wanting them and learned about somebody else with an amazing accent. (There are other, more important qualities, of course, but to me at least it certainly doesn’t hurt.)
I may or may not be slapped with the ‘racist’ label for my comment. I hope not; like I said, there are hot men all over the world. I have and/or want friends of all colors/creeds/genders/what-have-you, which is helpful to somebody who’s gonna travel a lot. I wanna sample everybody’s food and music and clothing, and how can you do that in earnest if you’re tearing down the people of the country you’re visiting?
all for one, one for all wrote:
-Having just come back from Russia with my pure Russian fiance I can attest to the kindness and welcoming hearts of the Russian people to me a half black women. They are a hard and strong people much like the BW of America. I loved my stay there.
Bless you. God bless you and your fiance and your whole families so hard. You have no idea how happy that comment has made me. I really, really REALLY want to go there one day. Tee hee.
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Cuz them biatches r fugly, they smell like cocoa butter, they’re bitter, rude, loud, ignorant, an full of hatred.
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@ Lollapalooza
I like cocoa butter
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@king: 😀 I think this lollapalloza guy is funny! Sounds like Vincent Vaughn in Get Shorty II
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i want marry with african women
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I just read this article and as an African American women I was a bit thrown off by it. I always wondered why I dont see alot of black women dating or married to white men. To be honest, Ive always dated white men and never really thought too much about race. Its not that im not attracted to black men, its just that i dont like the way they treat women in general. So I’ve always preferred to date outside my race. My husband is actually Hispanic and we have been married for 12 years. I think that maybe black women arent the easiest women to date and thats probably why you dont see many black women in relationships with white men.
Anyway, great article, it really got me thinking.
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“Cuz them biatches r fugly, they smell like cocoa butter, they’re bitter, rude, loud, ignorant, an full of hatred.”
Are You serious ? LOL! That’s crazy! Have you ever seen Peggy Bundy or Roseann Barr. I’ve almost never had a probelm attracting non-black men. I’m not light skinned. On average, most bp find my looks an average or sometimes even ugly. I don’t look like Beyonce or Bria Myles. I look more like a Final Fantasy character than a black beauty of the month. I have more on a chance appearing in Playboy or Gothic Beauty than JET or Maxim. Meh, I learned to accept it because no matter how beautiful you are, not everyone is going to like you. Alot of people love my skin color. It’s meduim brownish red color. When I go to a bar with my friends, I’ll be the only black girl there. We always get free drinks and cigs because they like me. LOL. They’ll ignore the white and mexican girls and come straight to me. Also, blondes are going out of style. I noticed alot of men prefer bruennettes and reheads. I have dark aubrun hair, so I guess I got the best of both. Tee hee.
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I am a white male. I guess you would say a “pretty boy” and yes the sisters love to be with a nice looking white man. Most black women say they would only date a “nice looking” white male. I am very attracted to in-shape black females. They can be light or dark. The attraction(in my opinion our differences)is amazing and so is the sex for the most part. It never seems to get old. I have dated a black female with 2 black children from other men. I understand why you would not want this. I see the looks from people and there is little respect from the kids towards me. If you are in a fling, it’s fine. Long term, I would never want kids….way too many problems. There can be many social problems between you as well. This can create tons of misunderstandings or just plain differences in values and judgement. I have sewed my oats with many a hot black girl, but long term would be a big decision, and children would have to be out of the picture. Not saying I wouldn’t marry a black woman, she would have to have a similar background or I don’t think it would work out.
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Oh, so you want to pump them and dump them. Just say so!
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I would not say I am using anyone…it’s always mutual. I enjoy the differences for the most part. I can just see a future with children being a constant struggle. The social and values sometimes are very different when you get to know the person. I don’t want kids anyway, so that is not really an issue for me. I say do whatever works for you, however better think hard before bringing any children into this world. There is still plenty of racial pressures and tensions from the public, and children feel it ten-fold.
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As a white man married to a beautiful black female I have found that no two stories are alike. Why we fell in love has to do with so many different things about each of us alone and together. I find that we like and dislike many of the same things our races have to offer. For example she hates deadbeat black guys who are underachievers, as do I. She hates black women who fall victim to black males who only use them for sex and money. I hate, as does she whites who feel they are superior to others due to skin color. In fact you find very soon that skin color is not even an issue once you have crossed over to the realization that together you are of a similar mind. Granted I will never be black but that doesn’t change the fact that I can relate to black issues in some ways as she can white issues. I don’t believe that salivary issues still prevail to set standards with the black women of today. We as races are spending far to much time at work or as friends to transgress back in time this way. An as we have more dialogue within our races you will see more black white marriages and more children from these relationships. The world will be one race of TAN people in 100 years or so.
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To Blanc2:
As far as your statement about “equipment size”. YOU seem to think that it’s important. Why aren’t the black women in this thread agreeing with you?
Perhaps dick size isn’t that important to them? What do THEY say?
maybe LOVEmaking is more important than a simple pounding.
just wondering:
tom
(white guy with small equipment and is ok with it).
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I asked several black men why they like white women so much and they told me black women are bitches. I can understand this and also understand the looks factor. What are your thoughts about the stereotypical angry black woman who are many?
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I don’t know, Matt P. I guess my thoughts are along the same line as weak, whiny, racist white men. Who cares?
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@ Marci–
I don’t know, Matt P. I guess my thoughts are along the same line as weak, whiny, racist white men. Who cares?
Matt P has “bitter” written all over him or her.
Not that you said so, but do you know whether Matt P. is actually a white man or even a man? There are some bitter Black men and women too who like to insult Black women online. There are some interracial sites where Black men say that White men hate Black women. They do that because they’re trying to make Black women hate White men or start friction. Sometimes, they pretend to be White men.
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@ Jorbia
I have not a clue. It was just such a rude, stupid remark; bad grammar and unanswered question, included.
I wonder at people who make remarks like those. It always seems like they see people of other races as an item to acquire, instead of a person to love.
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Matt P says,
I asked several black men why they like white women so much and they told me black women are bitches. I can understand this and also understand the looks factor. What are your thoughts about the stereotypical angry black woman who are many?
laromana says,
Spoken like a typical ANTI-BW RACIST/COWARD.
MP, you need to take your ANTI-BW LIES, MYTHS, and STEREOTYPES and shove them up your a. because NOBODY here cares.
Get over your IGNORANT/ASSISNINE self and GET A LIFE.
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TexT1 says,
I am a white male. I guess you would say a “pretty boy” and yes the sisters love to be with a nice looking white man. Most black women say they would only date a “nice looking” white male. I am very attracted to in-shape black females. They can be light or dark. The attraction(in my opinion our differences)is amazing and so is the sex for the most part. It never seems to get old. I have dated a black female with 2 black children from other men. I understand why you would not want this. I see the looks from people and there is little respect from the kids towards me. If you are in a fling, it’s fine. Long term, I would never want kids….way too many problems. There can be many social problems between you as well. This can create tons of misunderstandings or just plain differences in values and judgement. I have sewed my oats with many a hot black girl, but long term would be a big decision, and children would have to be out of the picture. Not saying I wouldn’t marry a black woman, she would have to have a similar background or I don’t think it would work out
laromana says,
Text1 says,
Contrary to the LIMITED, INACCURATE NONSENSE you’ve noted in your comments, MOST BW are NOT IMPRESSED by White “pretty boys”whose MAIN interest in BW is to USE THEM FOR SEX.
Why don’t YOU GET OVER YOURSELF ANTI-BW A– H—–.
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@matt: well, I have met several angry and bitter white women during my life time. I have met angry asian women too. I also met one very angry latina once who was ready to kick my ass. Fortunately she did not.
But still, as a normal straight guy, I still like women. Somehow, even after having gone trough a divorce too, I just like women too much to think about them bitches etc. Are there difficult women? Yes there are, but then there are lot of men who are also bitches.
I’ve said it before and I say it again: give me a good woman, no matter her skin color or what ever, and I marry her at once. Maybe I am just Old Skool guy, but I think that a man needs a woman. Not just for good sex, but as a partner in life, as a companion and some one whom to love. Maybe it is old fashioned, maybe it is naive, but that is the way I see this thing.
@TexT1: as a father I tell you this: without kids, your life will be half. When you have kids, you understand lots of stuff that you just don’t get without them. Also, you’ll never know how it feels when your kid looks you into your eyes and says: dad. It is one of the reasons to everything, to life and everything in it.
Also, when you see the birth (like I did), you will never bitch about anything small like falling from the top of a building or getting run over by a steam roller. Like one of my biker friends told to his buddies: None of us could never do it!
And once you see your child resting in the arms of the woman who delivered her/him into this world, you know what love really means.
As for the size of the “equipment”, I never have had any complains about that. I even managed to get some kids naturally so I guess mine is ok. I think anyone who has to bring up their monster cock all the time have some serious issues with themselves. Real or imagined.
As for the topic at hand, I’d marry a black woman in a second. I do not care of she is darker than night or lighter than coppertone model. I don’t care if she’s six ten or four feet tall. I do not care if she weights three hunderd or fifty pounds. I don’t care if she has natural afro size of the globe or braids or baldie or blonde straight hair. I do not care if she has sexy clothes or burkha. But I do care about her personality, witt, smarts etc.
That is how I see all this.
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ATTENTION ALL ANTI-BW HATERS/COWARDS,
BW have the RIGHT to TAKE OFFENSE at ANTI-BW HATE and DEFEND ourselves against it WITHOUT HAVING to PUT UP WITH ANTI-BW HATER NAMECALLING.
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sam,
Thanks for your caring, insightful, supportive PRO-BW comments. We need as much of those as we can get.
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@
laromana says,
Text1 says,
Contrary to the LIMITED, INACCURATE NONSENSE you’ve noted in your comments, MOST BW are NOT IMPRESSED by White “pretty boys”whose MAIN interest in BW is to USE THEM FOR SEX.
Why don’t YOU GET OVER YOURSELF ANTI-BW A– H—–.
Laromana, this thread is giving them a chance to crawl out and have their fantasies and their little tantrums about Black women. My father says don’t ever believe men who talk or brag about all the women they get. He said those are the main ones who don’t have “lead in their pencils.” 🙂
One of the things I hate is when a White man uses “sisters” to refer to Black women as “pretty boy” above did. That reveals a lot to me. I don’t even like it when Black men use that term. It is SO played out and phony.
Black women like a lot of types of “men” just like other women.
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Thanks, jorbia. I appreciate your comments and strongly believe that as we confront/condemn ANTI-BW HATERS, we’re helping DESTROY their ANTI-BW lies, myths, and stereotypes.
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firstly.. I’m a black women.
I’ve dated a lot of white men(along with other races including my own) and I’ve never had a problem. in fact in my personal experience most white men( under a certain age) ARE open to dating black women and marrying black women.
it seems that the killer in interracial relationships is being being obsessed with the fact that it’s a interracial relationship. white or black, man or women… a person can tell if your too caught up on race or something else superficial to get to know them as a person.
i can tell by getting to know a guy (white guy) if he truly thinks I’m an attractive interesting women or if he is only looking for a “jungle fling”.
and i agree with some of the men here… no one wants to be with a confrontational person… whether they are white black male or female etc
and trashy aint classy… calling it “ghetto” or “trailer park” doesn’t make a difference
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and as far as having bi racial children… some people worry about what others think… and then some people are spineless sheep who need a herd to follow to feel secure…
cause truly… no one cares about your life or what your doing with because everyone is too busy trying to figure out their own lives… so you might as well be happy and be with someone who makes you happy… and then have beautiful bi racial babies…
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To be clear, this is my point of view. I am a 42 yr old White Man that has been dating black women since I was 18. When I was growing up I was always being rejected by w/women. When I joined the Army, I had my first experience with a b/woman. It opened my eyes to the opportunity of dating a woman that can appreciate what i have to offer. Of course I was young and not too bright, so I was attracted to a woman solely because of her color, it was a recipe for disaster. Over time, I saw more than color. Having dated b/woman for over 24 yrs, I know nothing else. I truly can’t go back, not with much success. It’s all muscle memory now. It’s just instinctual to look at b/women as just women to me. W/woman are white to me. Here’s an example… Me and some friends went to Hooters and all the women there are attactive for the obvious reasons, but the w/woman don’t get my attention like the b/woman who work there. I am very confident in who I am. I have been with my wife (Yes, she is black) for over 16 yrs and we have problems just like any other married couple. When I go out, I go to bars or clubs that are patroned by mostly blacks, usually I am the only white face in the crowd. I don’t feel out of place or nervous for being the only w/guy in the crowd. I forgot to say, when I was young I was a really big Wanna-Be, not anymore. I am comfortable in my own skin. I know I am white, that’ll never change. There are guys out there who are like me that look at black women in many ways. Black Women are intelligent, confident, hard to get along with, beautiful, sexy, sluty, classy. There are so many things you can say about Black Women, good and bad. There is so much to choose from. Unlike White Woman, Black Women are not from the same mold. I have never really regretted my choices in women. I’ve enjoyed my time with all the women in my life. BTW, I can count on one hand the white women I’ve been with.
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Wow…lots of haters all the way around on this post.
RE: Sam: your choice to have children…mine not to. Too many people in this world already. Laromana:my experience is someone like you are very racist against whites and it comes out as accusations against us. Probably a very large black women whites do not find appealing(or a loud mouth). Usually white guys like the thin black girls. My comments are in regards to BW in this post. I have dated many races and could give you opinions on all including my own. Truth be told…I just like and enjoy women….and there are good and bad everywhere in every race. Jorbia: Obviously in the same category as Laromana. I do know this…black women will jump on the race card when it is convenient and they tend to be fairly quick to anger. It is what it is. Its not racism….it is stating the facts based on observations. You don’t want to be in the that category…then change your behavior. Live and let live…man. It’s not always that deep.
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@ Tex1
So… let me get this straight.
It is OTHERS who are haters on this thread, but meanwhile you have developed the magical ability of telling what a person looks like, simply by reading their internet posts.
“I do know this…black women will jump on the race card when it is convenient and they tend to be fairly quick to anger.”
I’m don’t know your experiences, so I can’t say if these “race card” incidents were valid or not. However, given the extensive history of racism and unfairness over the last few centuries in America, you might understand where such feelings might come from.
A lot of White people seem to be highly impatient on this subject. They expect hundreds of years of aggressiveness, abuse, and exclusion, to simply disappear in a generation. It took hundreds of years to royally screwing Black people to get them where they are today. I hope you’re not complaining because they don’t yet completely trust the White majority.
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TexT1
Wow…lots of haters all the way around on this post.
RE: Sam: your choice to have children…mine not to. Too many people in this world already. Laromana:my experience is someone like you are very racist against whites and it comes out as accusations against us. Probably a very large black women whites do not find appealing(or a loud mouth). Usually white guys like the thin black girls. My comments are in regards to BW in this post. I have dated many races and could give you opinions on all including my own. Truth be told…I just like and enjoy women….and there are good and bad everywhere in every race. Jorbia: Obviously in the same category as Laromana. I do know this…black women will jump on the race card when it is convenient and they tend to be fairly quick to anger. It is what it is. Its not racism….it is stating the facts based on observations. You don’t want to be in the that category…then change your behavior. Live and let live…man. It’s not always that deep.
laromana says,
Text1, BW TAKING OFFENSE AT/DEFENDING ourselves (which is OUR RIGHT), against ANTI-BW HATE/HATERS like you IS NOT RACIST or “using the race card” D—- A—-.
YOU’RE an ANTI-BW RACIST for believing that BW exist SOLELY for YOU TO USE FOR SEX.
Since you DON’T KNOW ME (or MOST BW) why don’t you STOP INVENTING STUPID/BS about me/other BW and GET OVER YOURSELF.
I/MOST BW don’t fit your IGNORANT ANTI-BW LIES, MYTHS, and STEREOTYPES.
Why don’t YOU TAKE RESPONSIBLITY for the ASSININE ANTI-BW GARBAGE you’re posting instead of making FALSE ACCUSATIONS against me/other BW for defending ourselves AGAINST ANTI-BW HATERS like YOU.
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“…and they tend to be fairly quick to anger.” Wait, add Irish, Latina, Native American, and Italian (‘specially Sicilian-sorry, Aunt Carin) women there, also. Pfft, it’s every woman on this earth who can be a bitchy mess and I assure you, we do not have the hold on that market. Men are bitchy too, they just have a different term for it: a**holes. Speaking from my scrambled background, I can fire off something at you if you look at me wrong on Tuesday, but on Wednesday I’d laugh about the same remark. Lol, I think you have a woman problem, not so much a race thing and you have to choose your words thoughtfully. Much more thoughtfully. Don’t patronize us women, thank you.
Steve, white women are not from the same mold either. No woman is. We’re all sweet, kind, bitchy, accommodating, mothering, “hard to get along with”: it just depends on what day and time that you catch us.
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Laromana….you just made my point. ANGRY! If caps were fists….you’d be swingin’!!! Chill out. We are all just people! If I see a hot black girl….I may go out with her…White, Spanish…whatever! It’s not just sex…it’s the excitement of the “now”…and maybe long term with the right person. BTW….not a hater…I’ve enjoyed me many a beautiful black woman! 🙂 You sound like the “hater” relatives of the black women I have dated. Always looking for the race angle and eventually pushing me out of the girls life.
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Erin says,
firstly.. I’m a black women.
I’ve dated a lot of white men(along with other races including my own) and I’ve never had a problem. in fact in my personal experience most white men( under a certain age) ARE open to dating black women and marrying black women.
it seems that the killer in interracial relationships is being being obsessed with the fact that it’s a interracial relationship. white or black, man or women… a person can tell if your too caught up on race or something else superficial to get to know them as a person.
i can tell by getting to know a guy (white guy) if he truly thinks I’m an attractive interesting women or if he is only looking for a “jungle fling”.
laromana says,
Erin I agree with your comments. Like you I’ve dated WM and have noticed that those, American WM under a certain age (usually 20’s- early 30’s for me), are the MOST open to dating/marrying BW. This is encouraging and represents progress in the evolution WM/BW relationships in America.
Until EVERYONE learns to REJECT ANTI-BW STEREOTYPES and view BW as normal, human women who men of ALL races can love, respect, date/marry, BW will continue to be mistreated/disrespected in their relationships with men of ALL races.
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Text1,
TO ALL ANTI-BW HATERS/COWARDS:
BW have the RIGHT to TAKE OFFENSE at ANTI-BW HATE and DEFEND ourselves against it WITHOUT HAVING to PUT UP WITH ANTI-BW HATER NAMECALLING.
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FYI,
For those who make FALSE CLAIMS about BW being ANTI-White racists for taking offense at/defending ourselves AGAINST ANTI-BW HATE/HATERS, “interracial dating/marriage” is legal in America for EVERYONE due to the legal efforts of the Lovings (BW/WM couple) in the early 50’s late 60’s.
Several posters on this thread have demonstrated that ANTI-BW HATE is real and that it IS NECESSARY for BW/BW supporters to confront/condemn it in order to destroy it.
FALSELY labeling this strategy “ANTI-White racism” or “playing the race card” won’t stop us so ANTI-BW HATERS better get used to it and change their ANTI-BW HATING ways.
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Wow…lots of emotion on this site. Seems to me TexasT1 is just trying to embrace all at face value and call it like it is. He sounds like a BW lover, not a hater. Someone just can’t seem to handle the truth. Laromana seems vengeful and full of hate. I agree…live and let live. All the anger has to stop. The sooner it does….the easier interracial relationships will be. I’ll date any woman if she interests me…
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It’s not really a big issues with me. Don’t date outside your race to escape from your problems. Any race can treat you good or bad. I noticed bw can attract non-black men easily as others. I had way more problems getting guys to talk to me when I was fat than my nationality. Men in general, don’t like fat chicks, except in the hiphop/counrty/hillibilly culture. Talking ghetto and country is a turn-off for a lot of men. When a women uses very strong ebonics, she sounds like a man. And the last thing is to have things in common. Remember this is from my view. I like the lanky rocker with long hair-types.
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Thenaturalone says,
Wow…lots of emotion on this site. Seems to me TexasT1 is just trying to embrace all at face value and call it like it is. He sounds like a BW lover, not a hater. Someone just can’t seem to handle the truth. Laromana seems vengeful and full of hate. I agree…live and let live. All the anger has to stop. The sooner it does….the easier interracial relationships will be. I’ll date any woman if she interests me…
laromana says,
Thenaturalone, unless you’re a BW in America who’s had to deal with HISTORICAL, ANTI-BW HATE for a lifetime (in the culture/media), please spare us the lecture on “sounding angry” or any such ignorant, patronizing garbage.
You don’t KNOW ME anyway.
As I’ve said several times, BW have a RIGHT to take offense at ALL brands of ANTI-BW HATE and DEFEND ourselves against it without having to put up with ANTI-BW HATER namecalling.
Contrary to what you said, Txt1’s comments don’t demonstrate that he’s a “lover” of BW.
Instead, they demonstrate a clear attitude of ANTI-BW HATE/DISRESPECT.
I/other BW on this post who have taken offense at Txt1, don’t appreciate WM, like him, who think BW exist SOLELY to be used for sex.
Like NON-BW, BW DESERVE to have our humanity, dignity, and femininity respected by having men of ALL races, who claim to like/love us, consider us WORTHY to seriously date and marry, not just use us for sex.
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Txt1 and his offensive/ANTI-BW comments are an excellent example a typical ENTITLED WM exercising his White privilege by:
1. Using BW SOLELY for sex
2. Attacking the humanity, dignity, and femininity of BW by “CLAIMING” that using BW SOLELY for sex is the same as “loving” BW.
3. Refusing to admit he’s promoting ANTI-BW HATE by using BW SOLELY for sex/”CLAIMING” it’s the same as “loving” BW.
4. Expecting BW/BW supportes to NOT take OFFENSE at/DEFEND themselves against his ANTI-BW HATE.
5. Resorting to ANTI-BW HATER NAMECALLING/STEREOTYPES instead of apologizing for his ANTI-BW HATE/DISRESPECT.
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Wow Laromana…you do have some anger issues. As a SBF I even recognize that. I don’t think TexT1 had anything to do with what happened a decade ago or earlier. It sounds to me like he has a love for black females. Maybe he just hasn’t met the right one to settle down with yet especially since he does not want children, I don’t see it as being a race thing. My advice to you is don’t judge current people you meet on what others may have done to your ancestors in the past.
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JustMe
Wow Laromana…you do have some anger issues. As a SBF I even recognize that. I don’t think TexT1 had anything to do with what happened a decade ago or earlier. It sounds to me like he has a love for black females. Maybe he just hasn’t met the right one to settle down with yet especially since he does not want children, I don’t see it as being a race thing. My advice to you is don’t judge current people you meet on what others may have done to your ancestors in the past.
laromana says,
JustMe,
We don’t KNOW each other so don’t PRETEND you do.
Also, don’t lecture me/ ANY BW about “having anger issues” or “judging current people you meet on what others may have done to your ancestors in the past.”
My comments are directly related to specific statements made by ANTI-BW HATERS on THIS POST and I can respond to them ANY way I want. I certainly don’t NEED YOUR permission/guidelines to do so.
Unless you’re a BW in America being constantly subjected to ANTI-BW HATE, you have NO RIGHT telling me/ANY BW what should/shouldn’t make us angry or how to handle ANY type of ANTI-BW mistreatment.
BW have the RIGHT to TAKE OFFENSE at ANTI-BW HATE and DEFEND ourselves against it WITHOUT HAVING to put up with ANTI-BW HATER NAMECALLING/JUDGEMENTS.
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Hmmm…Thenaturalone and JustMe both have the same gravatar.
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@BleuParfum
And you have the same gravatar as Paisley. It happens. 🙂
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Yeah, LOL, that’s because I’m using the same email address as when I was posting under the username “Paisley”! And, as I made a post to abagond about my name change a while ago, I’m definitely not a sock puppet. What’s JustMe explanation?
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Marci,
“Paisley” was my original username.
Still, maybe you’re right, and duplicate gravatars could just be a coincidence. But in this case I doubt it….
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laromona
did you check out those links I left for you?what do you think? It’s good to rinse out the negative with a whole lot of positive.
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Sorry for double posts — the first one took so long to show up I thought it must have gotten lost or something.
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yea sometimes wordpress can be funny like that esp for a site that gets a lot of traffic like abagond’s site.
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chic noir says,
laromona,
did you check out those links I left for you?what do you think? It’s good to rinse out the negative with a whole lot of positive
Thanks, chic noir. I did check out the excellent links you forwarded me and I truly appreciate your supportive comments/positivity.
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Laromana-
If you have not already….read comments from Stephanie. SHE calls it like it is. I am not anti-anything except anti-BS. I agree with her. You wanna be respected in this world…then lose the attitude and have some respect for others. People are judged by their character and actions. You obviously have a chip on your shoulder based on all of your comments you have posted on this site. I don’t see how you could date a WM based on your belief system. I love attractive women(inside and out)…I don’t see how that makes me some kind of “BW racist”. You need to give yourself a checkup from the neckup. You come across very ignorant and are perpetuating those stereotypes you are trying to combat. Seems to me you post here as some sort of vindictive payback towards WM’s. Can’t we all just get along….:) Maybe you and I should meet and see if there is some chemistry…maybe this is all just pent up sexual tension… 😉 LOL!!
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COMMENT FROM BW/BRITISH FRIEND:
Erm are people aware that black women aren’t some aliens from outer space.
Black women are not puppets you have on a string and decide their lives for.
There’s always something: We get insulted we stand up for ourselves and we’re called rude, obnoxious, aggresive blah blah blah.
We’re told not to wear weaves because it looks cheap and fake so we wear our natural hair and people say it looks ugly.
We’re too fat. We’re too skinny. We’re too dark.
We’re too light.
If you’re soft spoken that means you don’t sound like a regular black girl (like we’re trying to sound ‘white’).
We’re loud so were too ghetto.
Were good enough to have sex with but not marriage material.
I could go on and on and on…
No one is ever satisfied and its always our fault.
Enough is enough.
We as black women should not allow for this to stand.
We should do and act as we please and do what comes natural!
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laromana There’s always something: We get insulted we stand up for ourselves and we’re called rude, obnoxious, aggresive blah blah blah.
Yea this one is a biggie.
Hey do you hang out on the napprality forum laromana? There are a few threads I would like for you to read.
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What a long thread! It is a really interesting issue, and we have all probably had some experience, direct or indirect, with this. I do think that family can sometimes influence the decisions people make. I also think that life experience can influence one’s personal decisions. I am a white male, and I have been interested in black women. However, my own experiences lead me to think that there is A LOT to overcome to even create a foundation for a romantic relationship in such a scenario. I think there are social and historical influences that constrain just about all of us in how we live, black and white. We all want to be liberated to do as we wish, to do what makes us feel good, but at the end of the day, there are hurdles and roadblocks that impede, whether of our own making or because of the influence of others. Some people do date based on race; some people, once they are dating someone of another race, may start listening to naysayers. How great would it be if all the pain of the past could be erased, and people could just live happily? It’s not that easy, I’m afraid. If there is mistrust on the part of black women toward white men, one cannot say their fears are totally unfounded. So, people should try to have empathy toward one another, for starters.
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Abagond, I detected one point that gripped my interest in what you wrote at the beginning of this thread:
‘The Columbia study meanwhile found that while men are dogs and only care about looks, not race, women prefer men of their own race. Women, not men, apply race to dating.’
I tend to be a logical, rational person. Is the Columbia study reliable, in you opinion? I can see how some women, or even many women, might elect to date only in their race, because it validates their own identity somehow, or because it is ‘socially acceptable.’ Why, then, are some people able to make a leap of faith and become involved with others of different races? To me, it shows emotional and psychological maturity, for sure. Anyways, I do think it is important to understand just where society is on it, and for me, I do want to know if black women truly do tend to apply race to dating, because then I can spare myself some hurt and confusion. I wouldn’t want to pursue a woman for the purposes of dating if her heart really wasn’t in it in the first place.
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I keep hearing about how black women are “aggressive”, but how do you accurately measure agression in black women vs. every other race of women? Also, I have noticed, based on observation alone, that aggression in women is more of a western thing rather than a race thing. I believe that with more freedom (ie womens rights movement, think about how “aggressive” women were then) alotted people have more opportunities to express aggression. There are villages in Africa where the women are just as submissive as any asian woman is considered to be—are those women not black? Also, I could make a sweepingly general statement by saying that white women are passively agressive…but passive aggressiveness is a form of aggression right? Ultimately I feel that all human beings possess the “aggresive gene”, evolution calls for it…but the way aggression is channeled is based on factors like socioeconomic status, culture, religion, and values…not race. Oh and just for info, I’m a young black woman who grew up in the ghetto and never once was told by my white friends that I was aggressive.
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I’ve recently went through a break up with a white man. I am a black female. I still a little confused as to what happened. He told me he love me, wanted to get married, and have children. Next thing you know I’m 3 months pregnant and alone. Yes I’ve had some obstacles as far as losing my job and dealing with some typical issues people go through. He tells me he needs to get his life together and he just can’t be with me anymore. He started treating me really bad. He’s a whole different person now. Its as if he never had a heart. When times got hard he kicked me and my five yr old out of his house. I’m an independent woman and I don’t need a man to support me. I’ve always taken care of myself. I did my share of cooking cleaning and paying bills. He made me feel so small and insignifigant. I don’t want to date any white men after what I went through with him. I’ve dated a few white guys and the outcome is always negative. Are they all just cold hearted? Maybe they do see dating a black woman just as an experiment. All I know is I feel like a fool for even trying to date a white man. I want to know what real love feels like. The kind that won’t hurt you and the kind thats mutual.
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@ Bella523
Sorry to hear of this.
The easy answer is that it’s not a certain color of man, it’s just Men. But that wouldn’t be completely honest because it’s really not all men.
I’d say this.
Stop picking your men by colors and start picking them by consistency of character. Do they do what they say they’re going to do, even in the very little things? Everybody starts out nice… but what do they believe in? What is the moral code of their conscience? What do they live by?
But you can be dogged by any man, be he dark as midnight, or white as winter, if he’s not the right kind of man.
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@king: well said. There are plenty of a holes in men and color of the skin makes no difference. Choose a good man, not a poser. Guys who make you feel “too good” in the beginning are puttin on a show and when they don’t feel like it anymore, their ture colors come out.
Like a wise woman once said, it is not the Big Words but the small deeds.
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@King, Sam +1
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I don’t agree with the racism theory. It doesn’t explain why white women marry black men. Are you saying white females are less racist? Women don’t care about the race or looks of their offspring? Plus, the most common IR pairing in the US is white woman, black man. If racism was to blame wouldn’t it be white women Asian/Hispanic man? I mean, it seems to me that in America whites seem to have better perceptions of those groups. Also, white men are more likely to marry those groups than black women. Why aren’t those results reciprocated across genders among whites?
*these same racial/gender marrying patterns are present in the UK
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@PCG
I’ve always wondered the same thing. I feel some blacks feel their life is not complete unless we get validation from whites and other races. I’m sorry, but I could give a damn if white men lik black women. If anything i want them away from my dating pool. That means more Afro womens for me! 🙂
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“Plus, the most common IR pairing in the US is white woman, black man.”
Actually, the most common interracial pairing in the US is white male/Asian female.
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I thought it was White male/ Hispanic female (I know… I know.. Hispanic isn’t a race, but they still treat it like one)
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@Parfum Bleu & King
My mistake. I was thinking off the top of my head and I guess my head was wrong. Either way my point still stands. There are gender differences when it comes to IR marriage.
“In some categories of interracial marriage, there are distinct gender-related trends. More than twice as many black men marry white women as vice versa, and about three-fourths of white-Asian marriages involve white men and Asian women.”
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18090277/ns/us_news-life/
White women are more likely to marry a Black man than an Asian man.
If we follow the racism theory wouldn’t White women be more likely to marry Asians than Blacks? And why the IR discrepancy btwn Black men & women? White women are less racist than White men?
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In my experience, it varies for person. Not all black women are seen as unattractive and they’re not the Hallie Berry type. People take the media wat too seriously. It’s not reali life, but they should include more vareity . I’m see as very attractive to most white men and latinoa. It comes from personily first then looks. The hardest time I’ve had was when I was fat. I was a size size 22. Now I’m a size 5.
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laromana says,
chic noir,
Please forgive my delay in responding to you. I do visit the napprality from time to time and would love to read the threads you may suggest for me.
Thanks.
chic noir says,
laromana There’s always something: We get insulted we stand up for ourselves and we’re called rude, obnoxious, aggresive blah blah blah.
Yea this one is a biggie.
Hey do you hang out on the napprality forum laromana? There are a few threads I would like for you to read.
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The Cynic said:
From a mile high it might look that way, but ask yourself what are the white racist beliefs about race and penis size? And what about their stereotypes about black and Asian women, particularly in regard to beauty and submissiveness? They make little sense to me but they are what they are.
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@Abagond
“what are the white racist beliefs about race and penis size?”
So white women marry black men bc they are racist?
“what about their stereotypes about black and Asian women, particularly in regard to beauty and submissiveness?”
… and white men don’t marry black women bc they are racist? -__-
*shrugs*
I guess.
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“From a mile high it might look that way, but ask yourself what are the white racist beliefs about race and penis size? And what about their stereotypes about black and Asian women, particularly in regard to beauty and submissiveness? They make little sense to me but they are what they are.”
Can’t be a little of both ? Again, you have to include culture. Most people tend to be drawn towards things that are simlar to themselves. For example, a white chick that a bit chubby (like a size 12 or something), listens to hip-hop & R&B, hangs around mainly blacks and is into the subcutlure, she’s probably going to attract way more black guys or others that are into that. A white guy that into thin gothic chicks that likes comic books and reading The Onion is probably going to talk to me over other the white chick. Looks do come into play, but I don’t think as balck & white as you make it seem. Also, I’ve notice that a lot of people tend to believe that black women only date other black people. Alot of men are at first afraid to talk to me because they feel I wouldn’t get them any time. I live in Chicago anfd it’s one of the most segrated cities in the midwest. Some white men are very suprised that we have a lot in common. 95 percent of time, I’ll be the only BW there and still get looked at and free stuff. I went to a rock show last week and I met some awesome people. The guy that wanted to marry me was Chinese, but it was way too soon. His family was really cool, but my mum hated him for being so ghetto.Guys want to tie down and I’m not ready.
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I am an African American female and I date white men as well as black men. I honestly don’t have a preference and I find most men don’t either. I have never meant a white man who didn’t want to be in a serious relationship with me because I am African American. I have had serious relationships with white men and casual relationships with white men, and I never felt that I was being used for anything. I have had white men purpose marriage, I have had serious discussions about marriage with a few of my white ex’s and I was even pregnant by a white ex, and he was more thrilled than I was, but unfortunately I had a miscarriage.
I live in a predominately white area and white men look at me all the time, they smile and say hello, they wink, and they approach me, and I don’t look like a white woman I am just a very attractive black woman. I find that sex supersedes all racial issues because when two people are hot for one another and attracted to one another all bets are off, even if one comes from a family that is against interracial relationships. One more thing I am an African American young woman as I mentioned before, however I am not mean, hateful, bitter, or ghetto, and I do not smell like coco butter lol. I read that on someone’s comments here and I thought it was offensive and ignorant, but it was so offensive and ignorant I laughed because I can’t believe someone could say something so far out. I’m not ugly and believe it or not I don’t use coco butter because it smells funny, but I had an Italian boyfriend who used coco butter oil all the time, isn’t that ironic lol.
Also there was someone by the name of Robert Lindsay on this post that was saying ghetto black woman are not a stereotype because they actually exist, especially where he lives, and there are two kinds of black women; and I’m just summing his comments up. What I want to say about that is, there are two kinds of Black women, just like there are two kinds of White women, Hispanic women, etc… You have less educated black people who may come from poverty stricken circumstances, which they are never able to leave or break away from. In that instance the behavior is different because of the environment which they come from and the lack of quality education. Obviously I am not insinuating all Black women from that particular kind of back ground behaves in a “ghetto” way but quite a few do. I know some normal everyday black people who just live normal lives like me.
I am not rich, but I didn’t grow up poor, and I went to public school graduated and went to college, and I know some black people that grew up in different areas than me, had more difficult experiences and circumstances and they act and speak completely different than I do. The difference is just economical, and geographical differences manifested in language and behavior. Of course how one is raised and what they are exposed to has a role in the behavior of a woman as well. However, the same goes for all women and people in general. Take White women for instance; under privileged, poorly educated white women that come from inferior neighborhoods like trailer parks or just poverty stricken neighborhoods display the same “ghetto” behavior and there are just as many of them as there are black women.
You can have white women with alcoholic fathers and a drug addict mothers, and maybe they go to school and graduate but more than likely they don’t make it through high school. Those women will probably display “ghetto” behavior and the only difference is the lack of melanin in the skin. I think people put too much emphasis on race when thinking about ghetto behavior. It’s not about the race of the woman that makes her ghetto, it’s about education, economical, and geographical circumstances.
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@miya: Well said.
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Interesting discussion. I think that the use of the descriptive term ‘ghetto’ is a subtle/subversive way to say, or denote ‘inferior’. “She’s ghetto, oir they’re ghetto” or “most black women/people, are ghetto”.
I’m convinced that the use of the word ‘ghetto’, is a way to ‘get around’ being accused of being a racist, and instead be seen as, having a ‘better’ class standards , or being viewed of possessing higher class status.
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“You can have white women with alcoholic fathers and a drug addict mothers, and maybe they go to school and graduate but more than likely they don’t make it through high school. Those women will probably display “ghetto” behavior and the only difference is the lack of melanin in the skin. I think people put too much emphasis on race when thinking about ghetto behavior. It’s not about the race of the woman that makes her ghetto, it’s about education, economical, and geographical circumstances.”
Cosigned. Yesterday, me, my boyfriend, and my best friend were talking to white chick that had that problem. Except, it’s heorin and was going through baby mama that would make girl from Baby Boy look like June Cleaver. I mean, think about WP relate the Bundys. Now, they were some ghetto mothertruckers!!
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There are so many white male celebrities who are married to Black women, here are just a few…
George Lucas and Mellody Hobson
Robert De Niro and Diahnne Abbott
Robert De Niro and Grace Hightower
David Bowie and Iman
Brian Gibson and Lynn Whitfield
Alvin Martin and Whoopi Goldberg
Richard Holland and Chaka Khan
Roger Larocque and Nell Carter
Ivan Sergei and Tanya Sergei
Boris Becker and non famous black woman
Ron Breyer and Tonya Pinkins and
Justin Chambers and Keisha
Wolfgang Puck got and Gelila Assefa
Roderick Spencer and Alfre Woodard
Paula Patton with Robin Thicke
Garcelle Beauvais-Nilon and Mike Nilon
Chris Noth and Beverly Johnson
Luke Goss and Shirley Lewis
etc…
p.s. I am a white male who is so into Black women , do I have to be a celebrity to have one?
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@lion: ööh… No?
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@sam, thanks for clearing that up for me lol
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Wow painting with a wide brush. When it comes down to relationships, it is more how two people communicate. I talk to many women of different races. They like to be listened to, regardless of race. As to “mullatto” its spanish and in latin countries used to describe ones heritage. In New Orleans in the 1800s there where quadroons (1/4 black)people and octroons (1/8 black) people. Many quadroon women were sought for marriage because of their beauty. This led to quadroon balls, where men would dance with these women in hopes of marriage. As a southern white/hispanic man, the word “negro” in spanish is about color. It means black. As in “el carro negro” , the black car. I hope some of what I have explained here helps.
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Most Saltine males will have sex with a beautiful Black woman if the opportunity presents itself, however they will not MARRY them.
White males are at the top of the pyramid in America.
They are followed by White Women, Asians, Hispanics, and lastly African Americans.
So consciously, or unconsciously, they feel they are marrying DOWN when they marry a Black woman. Basically, if they wre honest they would admit that they feel like it would be marrying a Monkey or something less than a Human being.
Black people are more willing to marry Saltines because they are upgrading their status in society.
http://support-our-unemployed.buildlastingsuccess.com/
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“Basically, if they wre honest they would admit that they feel like it would be marrying a Monkey or something less than a Human being.”
Of course, I have to ask… are you talking about SOME “Saltines” or ALL “Saltines???”
Also, where do you stand on Graham Crackers and Hi Ho’s?
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Jeff,
I completely disagree. White Men, whom I assume you’re referring to when you use the word “Saltine”, will marry African American Women if we will accept their proposal. African American Women are not inferior to any other women of a different race. I know plenty of interracial married couples, which consist of African American Women and White Men, and those White Men don’t think they married “down” or that they married some kind of bestial subhuman “monkey”. Only lower class human beings refer to and believe that African Americans are “monkeys”. No White Man with intelligence, integrity, class, a full set of teeth, and a decent grade school education would ever think of African American Women as “monkeys”.
Moreover, just because a man is White does not mean he is followed, highly regarded, or desired by any woman. A White Man just like any other man regardless of race has to be a decent and respectable man for any respectable woman to want them. I have been in very serious relationships with White Men and even proposed to, but I did not accept which is why I didn’t marry a White Man; not because he didn’t want me or wouldn’t have me. All White Men are not created equal.
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@ Jeff Washington,
If white men are at the top of the pyramid, then the rich and famous white men would be even way higher and guess what, lots of them are married to black women. Just a few….
George Lucas and Mellody Hobson
Robert De Niro and Diahnne Abbott
Robert De Niro and Grace Hightower
David Bowie and Iman
Brian Gibson and Lynn Whitfield
Alvin Martin and Whoopi Goldberg
Frank Langella and Whoopi Goldberg
Ted Danson and Whoopi Goldberg
Richard Holland and Chaka Khan
Roger Larocque and Nell Carter
Ivan Sergei and Tanya Sergei
Boris Becker and non famous black woman
Ron Breyer and Tonya Pinkins and
Justin Chambers and Keisha
Wolfgang Puck got and Gelila Assefa
Roderick Spencer and Alfre Woodard
Paula Patton with Robin Thicke
Garcelle Beauvais-Nilon and Mike Nilon
Chris Noth and Beverly Johnson
Erica Dunlap & Brian Kleinschmidt
Suzan Lori-Parks and Paul Oscher
Chuck Tiller and Mary
Angela McGlowan and John Venners
Shantanella and McSerch
Daniel and Marianne Pearl
Alison Stewart and Bill Wolff
Mildred and Richard Loving
Dawn Simpson and Dan Falls
Tina Frimpong and Brad Ellertson
Wolfgang Puck and Gelila Assefa
Stephanie Steward & Stefan Lust
Oluchi and Luca Orlandi
Diamond Dallas Page and some unknown black chick etc…
And very recently, Matt Stone, The creator of ‘South Park’ married a black woman now they are expecting baby.
Even Brad Pitt had had 3 black girlfriends in his younger days when he was still good looking.
Matthew McConaughey was crazy in love with Sallie Richarson (a black woman) before she dumped him for another guy, Zoe Kravitz dumped Ben Foster, The list goes on….
There are more white male celebrities married to black women than the other way round.
* Check out these billionaires married to black women
* Billionaire Prince of Liechtenstein dumped his WHITE fiancée’ and married a black woman. Now they have a son.
* Billionaire George Lucas (mentioned on the above list), the creator of ‘Star Wars’ left his WHITE wife of 15 years for a black woman.
* Russian Billionaire Vladamir Doronin left his WHITE wife and kids for a black woman.
* Billionaire Peter Norton, The creator of ‘Norton Anti-Virus’ left his WHITE college sweetheart for a black wife. They have 5 mixed kids.
* The Royal Prince of Monaco is married to a black woman and now they have son.
* Prince Maximilian married a black woman called Angela Brown.
* Count of Austria Ferdinand married a black woman called Mary Von Hapsburg.
* Top International Fashion designer Riccardo Sala married a black woman called Alek Wek. they have a kid.
*Bill de Blasio New York City Council also has a black wife and kids. the list goes on and on….
p.s. in reality, white men are not being followed by women of other races; it’s the other way round.
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Umm, when people put the “left his WHITE, etc” that sort of looks like a crap move. Don’t do it. Please. I wouldn’t be proud of any man leaving his wife and kids to be with anyone. Marriage is a sacrament, not a high school relationship, and bringing race into it doesn’t make it any better. It’s still a crappy move.
George Lucas and Melody Hobbs are NOT married and he did not leave his wife for her. Prince Maximilian of Liechtenstein was NOT engaged before he married. Whoopi Goldberg has never been married to Frank Langella or Ted Danson.
I’m not putting anyone down, but lists like this are a who’s who of internet gossip. It builds and builds until things people use it for aren’t always true. You know you have a few people on that list who are not rich and famous, just mildly notorious for something or other.
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@ Marci,
[when people put the “left his WHITE, etc” that sort of looks like a crap move. Don’t do it…I wouldn’t be proud of any man leaving his wife and kids to be with anyone.]
* But when people like Jeff call a Black woman a monkey or something less than a human being, that’s a justified move right?
* Your statement about marriage made you come across as someone with some sort of moral principle, the only problem is, a genuine moral principle is NOT subjective, if you really had any moral at all, you’d have criticized Jeff’s statement regardless of what race you belong to.
* and you’re right about George Lucas and Melody Hobbs not being married since their relationship is way stronger than marriage.
* Prince Maximilian of Liechtenstein was indeed engaged before he was married.
* and thanks for the correction about Whoopi Goldberg, she was married to Alvin Martin, Lyle Trachtenberg and David Claessen, and dated Frank Langella, Ted Danson, Timothy Dalton, Alan Moore, Eddie Gold, Jeffrey Cohen and Michael Visbal.
[You know you have a few people on that list who are not rich and famous]
* Their pockets and fans would definitely disagree.
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@Jeff Washington,
Your post is a proof racist people are dumber than animals.
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There are so many white men married to or dating black women, you guys forgot to mention,
-Keisha Sharp and husband Swedish Film Producer
-Debra Wilson and Cilff Skelton
-Eve and Shane Powers
-Tatyana Ali and her Italian fiancé’
-Werner Klemperer and wife, actress Kim Hamilton
-Legendary Punk Rocker Iggy Pop and girlfriend Nina Alu
-Olympian Mary Wineberg and Husband (her Coach)
– Alec Wek and Riccardo Sala
-Canadian Singer Fefe Dobson and Boyfriend Michael Seater
-Kim Wayans and husband Kevin Knotts
-Shane Lynch (formerly of pop group Boyzone) and wife Sheena White
-Mark Ecko and wife Allison
-Chris Noth and Tara Wilson
-Carlos and Deborah Santana
– Denise Vasi and Noah Tepperberg
-Virginie Silla & husband Luc Besson French Producer-Director and Movie Mogul
– Golden Brooks and Marcus Mollinari
-Tina Frimpong and Brad Ellertson
-Mildred and Richard Loving
-Alison Stewart and Bill Wolff (VP, MSNBC)
-Tamala M. Edwards and Rocco -Lugrine
-Daniel and Marianne Pearl
-Chuck Tiller and Wife Mary
-J.J. Murray (author) and wife Amy Renee Murray
-Thandie Newton and Ol Parker
-Erica Dunlap and Brian Kleinschmidt
-Lydia Carlston and Mats Carlston (Global Finance Practice Group Leader and Partner of Nixon, Peabody International Law Firm)
-Alicia Marie and John Rocker
-Nicole Narain and on and off boyfriend Colin Farrell (Actor)
-Roxie Roker and Sy Kravitz
-Remy Shand (singer) and his wife Maiko Watson
-Kira Arne & Tom Verica
-Claire Hope-Ashitey and Jo Charlesworth
-Gloria Jones & Marc Bolan (British Rock Star)
-Roger Ebert & Chaz
-Kerry Washington & David Moscow
-Heather Hedley & Brian Musso
-Garcelle Beauvais-Nilon & Husband
-Debra Wilson & Cliff Skelton
-Aisha Tyler & Jeff Fietjens
– Secy William Cohen and Janet Langhart Cohen
-Crystal & Paul Wall
-Eunice & Sebastian Deisler (German Football Star)
-Tamyra Gray & Sam Watters (Songwriter & Producer)
-Serena Williams & Brett Ratner
-Sherry Bronfman & Edgar Bronfman Jr.
-Leslie Uggams & Graham Pratt (Australian Businessman)
– Julie Brown & Martin Schuermann
-Lois & Ronald Betts ( Founder and Chairman of the Chelsea Piers AND lead owner of the Texas -Ranger Baseball team with partner Pres. George W Bush)
-Stone Phillips (TV Anchorman) & Debra
-Michaelle Jean (Canada’s Governor General) and Jean-Daniel Lafond
-Lena Horne and Lennie Hayton aka leonard George Hayton
-Shari Belafonte & Sam Behrens
-Mark Bamford (Screenwriter)& Suzanne Kay
-Katherine Dunham & John Pratt
-Alice Walker & Mel Levantahl
-Ron Perlman, Opal Stone & Kids
-Elizabeth Roxas-Dobrish & Robert Dobrish (Matrimonial Lawyer to the -Stars)
-Kelly Rowland and her Italian fiance
and there’s more
ETC……………………………..
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@ Me!
” But when people like Jeff call a Black woman a monkey or something less than a human being, that’s a justified move right?
* Your statement about marriage made you come across as someone with some sort of moral principle, the only problem is, a genuine moral principle is NOT subjective, if you really had any moral at all, you’d have criticized Jeff’s statement regardless of what race you belong to.”
Never said that is a “justified move” either, thank you. I just read your posting and responded to your words. Please do not assume anything just because I do not respond to any certain person that you think I should: there are literally hundreds of postings here that I have read (and answered a few) that are really asinine. Have you read each and every one of them and so can point them all out? I mean there are more than a few that are really bad here that I can use your same words to me to criticize you, because you did not respond to them. I understand that everyone who comes to this blog and reads this one posting, do not always read through the whole comment section. Are you saying you did and that there is only one person who said something bad and that was Jeff?
My morals are intact and genuine for me. I do not, and never would condone any man leaving his wife and family for another woman. And the woman who knowingly dates a married man(unless there is a legal separation or some extenuating circumstances that preclude a divorce and the wife/husband knows, etc) when the other party is clueless is pretty much a homewrecker as far as I am concerned. I’m an equal op person: this works both ways. I understand that you have different morals and as such rejoice in it. We are different that way.
Daniel Pearl was not rich or famous. he was an ordinary reporter as was/is his wife. Many people only know about him because of the Angelina Jolie movie. The Lovings were most definitely not rich. they were notorious for marrying when it was illegal. By that token, my grandparents were notorious in NJ for the same thing. Thank God their names are not on that list. I mean they did raise horses at one time and were known through that circuit but that’s it.
Diamond Dallas Page is not rich. I met the guy, he’s definitely not rich. lol Famous yes, rich no.
The objection I have to these lists is that when you get partners like “Boris Becker and non famous black woman” it becomes a joke. And when you do the copy & paste thing, picking up inaccurate information and passing it on…it becomes more of a joke.
Morals ARE subjective. They are not writ in stone throughout the world.
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I have read a lot of the comments here and really enjoyed doing so.
I do believe that for the most part black women are invisible to white men. Most white men would not date black women. I do not have a problem with that. It is completely understandable. Most people date within their race.
I for one was never attracted to white men and I still am not attracted to white men in general. However, I am married to a white man and I love him dearly. Nevertheless that does not mean I am generally attracted to white men. We met and fell in love and I cannot believe how wonderful he is as a husband. I feel truly blessed. I almost missed out because of me excluded all men from the white race.
My point is that to say “I am only attracted to white men” or “I am only attracted to black men” will only rob you of potential happiness. Forget about the person’s skin colour. Find love. Focus on that first instead of what the person looks like.
I am sometimes bothered with black men or women claiming they are not at all interested in people of their own race. To me that speaks volumes because it says a lot about how they feel about themselves (and even their brothers and sisters).
Would you rather be with a white man/woman who treats you like rubbish than find happiness with a black, indian, etc person? Would you be with someone more for their whiteness/race than for who they are and how they treat you?
I love my white husband but would have cared less whether he was black, orange, etc. For me, what is most important is his character and the way he treats me – and that has nothing to do with his race. I am sure there are equally as lovely men in other races.
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As a mulatto female, I have been quite reluctant to date White men, seeing as how alot of white men are mean to black women, since White men are dumb enough to generalize a whole race of black women and as White men think:
1): Black women are smelly monkies
2): Black women are dumb, and since women are already dumb, then being a black woman is even worse
3): We are the reason AIDS, HIV, and other STDs exist
4): We all have HIV/AIDS
5): We are ugly as sin
6): Our hair has bugs
7): We should be noosed
8): We are the most vile thing on Earth
9): No one will ever love us
10): We are whores
And a host of other things I would rather not list because I am getting furious just listing the things White men think of us. I am sick of the injustice! Yet white men want us to respect them! The hypocrisy! I think all White men think the things I listed above and much more, whether they are racist or not. So fuck them.
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@ YaasaminYaae
Best bet is to find a man who can prioritize his respect for you above his desire to have you. Men who don’t respect their women come in ALL colors. If you don’t believe that, just ask around.
A good man is hard to find in any race. As a Black guy, it would serve my ego to say that we are somehow better. But that is not true.
“I think all White men think the things I listed above and much more, whether they are racist or not.”
Wouldn’t thinking like that mean they were racist?
“So fuck them.”
Probably not the best deterrent.
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@YaasaminYaae
You’re actually a bitter white woman pretending here just so you can say those things about black woman.
I’m a white man and neither me nor do any of my friends ever said those things about black woman. Most of us actually love and date black woman, I personally think white girls are not attractive, anemic skin, bland, ugly blue veins on their hands, arms and legs, flat rear-ends and abnormally square hips, small caca-brown spots on their faces and soulless blue or green eyes , curvless flatties who like to chase after black guys for a bj. I love black women’s curves, chest, lips, skin everything about them , my second favorite girls are Latinos. But hell no to white women and their 12 years old boy’s body! one has to be a gay pedophile to be attracted to that.
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YaasaminYaae
King
Funniest thing I’ve read all day LOL. And JJ I hope you’re being ironic.
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YaasaminYaae,
You sound like a racist person in disguise who just wants to rant about black women. I won’t insult white people and say you’re white because the majority of white men and white people are so much better but I’m pretty sure you are not who you claim to be. I’m not sure what kind of white men you’ve associated with, but no decent, educated, white man or person would ever say such ignorant, disgusting things about another human being.
I want to help you because clearly you are lacking intelligence, so here are a few things you can do to better yourself and at least appear to be sophisticated: Read up on the history of HIV/AIDS and it’s development, read a BOOK period, just make sure the authors are not Nazi’s or the KKK, expose yourself to people with at least a 12th grade education, and a full set of teeth, and last but not least and listen carefully because this clue is really important; they can’t be married to a relative, unless you’re already married to your cousin then you can just forget the entire thing. Good luck 🙂
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@YaasaminYaae
I want to scratch my head in confusion at your posting … but you might think I had bugs!
@JJ, Gen, Miya…bwahahahahahaha! I just woke up to a really bad morning and reading your responses have made my day a bit lighter.
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First, a bit of background. I’m a tall white man with blue/green eyes and blond to red colored hair and correspondingly white skin. I do not bother ever trying to tan (bad for my skin which, I realize, is in this respect inferior to that of dark skinned people. Tropical regions and I do not get along.) I have a bunch of guy friends (almost all of whom are white) with whom I am close enough to have the sort of speak-freely conversations that one cannot have at work or in public where the pc police stand guard over the national discourse. What I have to say is of course subjective in many respects, but it has been echoed by my friends, who really do not have any reason to lie about these matters to me or to themselves.
Why don’t I date or contemplate marriage to a black woman? Why don’t my friends? There are a number of reasons, most of which I believe have been mentioned here piecemeal . At the risk of duplicating what others have written, I will answer the question posed with respect to myself and my friends.
I. Looks. Simply put, I find the top twenty percent of white women in their twenties and thirties to be much better looking than all but the very best looking (top two percent) black women (whom, let us be blunt, I have virtually no chance of dating). Yes, there are some very attractive black women out there, but they are very few in number, and they tend to have a lot of white blood and white-origin traits in them. And to be specific, among the traits that I find attractive in a woman are naturally straight or wavy hair, the kind that blows in the wind. Black women, no matter how much they try, can never have such hair. I’m also attracted to women with narrow noses and fine bone structure, whereas African American black women tend to have wide noses and heavier bone structure that I do not find appealing. I also strongly prefer alabaster white to slightly golden skin to the skin tones most black women have.
In terms of body type, there are some black women with absolutely spectacular bodies. Some way better than what one sees on the average white woman. But in the main, African American women have let themselves go to pot. They are as a group too heavy to appeal to me or to most white men. (Neither am I a fan of fat white women, but at least in New York, we haven’t too many of those.)
Finally, to close out the discussion of appearance, I am not arguing that every white woman is better looking than every black woman. Certainly not. There are lots of fat and / or otherwise disgusting white women out there. Lots. And there are some spectacularly attractive black women out there. But they are few in number, and we are discussing statistical measures and group tendencies, not absolute rules.
II. Culture. I don’t know many black women, but the few whom I have gotten to know well through work or school seem to be suffering from Angry Black Woman Syndrome. Anger in a woman does not appeal to me under any circumstances. Then there is the YouTube problem of all these videos and news reports of young black women getting all ghetto in McDonalds, on the subway, and in other public and semi-public places. Who wants to cross blood lines with that? Ghetto conduct (and we all know what this means) is repulsive to me and to my white friends no less than it is to refined black people. And even where a black woman is nice, pretty, feminine, etc., there is always the worry that her extended family and friends are going to be very different, and inject a measure of ghetto culture into our home.
III. The Kids. We White Men marry to have children and raise them properly. Like most men, we also tend to want children who will look like ourselves which, in my case, means having white skin and light colored hair, etc. There certainly is enough genetic variability amongst our kind to produce children with darker hair and skin, but still, I expect to see myself or my kin in the faces of whatever children I have with a white woman. I simply don’t think this is probable with a black woman. We are simply too different in appearance.
IV. Fear. The New York Times has reported on multiple occasions studies from the CDC that black women in the United States have seven times the rate of HIV infection of white women. Locally, I have read New York City statistics that about 56% of black women have other STDs, versus about half that rate for white women. High numbers for both groups to be sure, but there is nothing in these numbers to make me want to prefer black women over white.
In general, I think the world would be a happier place if people were content to mate with their own kind: whites with white, blacks with black, asians with asian. (Speaking of whom, while I like asian culture more than I do black or even, increasingly, American culture, I do not find asian women to be all that attractive and I do not date them.) Miscegenation often makes for a lot of unhappy people, especially when gender imbalances leave some groups (black women, asian men) in the shallow end of the dating pool with disproportionately few prospects.
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I never understood the whole issue. I’m black and I’ve never had a problem dating white guys. I’ve only dated white guys in the last 5 years. But I have realized they see me differently. I sound like a white girl, (I do understand people say you can’t speak like a race but face facts there are differences in the way certain races speak) I shop at clothing stores that have a predominantly white customer base, and I share a lot of the same interest. Hockey, baseball, music… I’m pretty slim which gives off the impression that I’m in shape or I take great care of myself. I also have a great personality along with great conversation and I get along with guys in general. I’m a guys girl which has seem to work in my favor a lot.
I do have to say that most white guys that I have dated, I was their first black girl and probably last. Most never thought they would be attracted to a black girl before they met me so I wouldn’t say it’s just a white and black thing. It’s about how most black females carry themselves. Let’s face it. Most black females fit the stereotypes. I don’t want to be friends let alone in the same vicinity as the angry black woman so I understand why white men wouldn’t want to date most black women.
I also understand that some white guys are curious about dating a black woman and unfortunately for me I seem to be their “one shot”. A lot of my white male friends admit a lot of things to me. Mostly because they feel they can talk to me about it and I won’t be offended. But bottom line is if more black women were more appealing in all aspects….there wouldn’t be an issue.
Overall It may be a generation thing (I’m 23) but I know a lot of white guys who wouldn’t mind having mixed children, dating a black girl and so on. Which is great because that means times are changing. I would love to see more interracial couples and families.
I know this is about marrying a black woman but it starts with dating and relationships. It’s hard to say if it would be hard for me to be considered marriage material to a white guy but I guess we’ll find out some years from now won’t we.
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I didn’t read all the posts above, because it seems it’s the same old cr…
If I found a bw I felt was “destined” to me, I’d marry her in a heartbeat.
I’ve been hanging around the internet for awhile, also these interracial and bw appreciation fb-sites…
And I’d LOVE to go on a date with many of the bw I’ve met online. Go for a lunch, have a few laffs, and see if it might get us a bit further.
To me, bw are as -or actually even more- attractive as women of any other ethnicity or nationality.
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@ Roz
“I never understood the whole issue. I’m black and I’ve never had a problem dating white guys.”
Same here, and it’s not just a generational thing. I’m ahead of you by a number of years and I’ve never seen anything amiss in dating someone who was not black. I’ve never had any problem with attracting them either.
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You lucky bastards. I hate you -not really, I’m happy for the new generation. 🙂
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@ StandardNYCWhiteMan
Without getting into a blow by blow of your statements, i’ll respond briefly.
Few here are saying that you SHOULD marry a Black woman. Abagond was making a statistical observation, then trying to expound upon his theories as to the reason for it.
As for looks, no one can gainsay your personal viewpoint on the looks of Black women. But let me say to you that you seldom get a really good idea about how many beautiful Black women there are, unless you’re very plugged into the Black community and attend a lot of Black events. If you are going by the women you pick out at random on the subway, and the supermarket, then you will probably get the very impression that you’ve expressed.
Nevertheless, you have to be aware that your observations are perceived through the distortions of your own cultural lens. Like people who think that everybody else has an accent except for themselves, you are not likely to be aware of your own distortions.
But as for your likes/dislikes
Naturally straight hair:I assume that you must also have a dislike for the hair of many Greek women, Jewish women , and certain Irish women becuasse their hair is naturally curly. http://storage.canalblog.com/71/54/207779/48915008.jpg
Narrow noses and fine bone structure: There are many black women with narrow noses, and fine bone structure, what your are perceiving is a stereotype and is based on a lack of exposure.
White or golden Skin tone: It depends on what you would consider Black. Obviously there are many women who are mixed but are considered to be Black that fit into the golden skin tone category.
As for culture – it’s not in the skin color. A Black woman is like anyone else—you just get to know her, and find out what HER cultural values are. Don’t assume that your limited exposure has given you the insight into ALL Black women (it has not).
What makes you think that as a brown haired man that a blonde is “your kind?” What makes you think that a beautiful French expatriate woman is “your kind?” What makes you think that a woman outside of your economic or educational class is “your kind?” Do you feel as strongly about these divisions of kind as you do about skin color?
Hey man, I don’t really care if you find Black women attractive or not. I’m just trying to get you to consider some new perspectives on the subject.
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laromana says,
Roz,
I think it’s great that you’re benefitting from the fact that today MORE younger (20’s-early 30’s) American WM are willing to seriously date and/or marry BW and seem to have overcome the MANY ANTI-BW hangups (ie. ANTI-BW COWARDICE/HATE) of their older (35+)counterparts. I can tell you from long term first hand experience that, older American WM had/continue to have MAJOR hangups with IRR’s with BW due to ANTI-BW COWARDICE/HATE which has historically been a part of how BW are viewed/treated in American media/culture.
Since you’re a younger BW, I’d strongly caution you against generalizing ANTI-BW lies, myths, and stereotypes to MOST/ALL BW. It’s easy to belive the lie that WM don’t seriously date and/or marry BW because “MOST BW” fit some ANTI-BW stereotype (ie. “MOST/ALL BW” speak/act/dress ghetto, have attitudes, aren’t thin/attractive, aren’t educated, …fill in your favorite brand of ANTI-BW HATE) but the truth is that American media/culture has long taught WM to degrade, demean, and disrespect BW (SOLELY because they’re BW), instead of treating them like INDIVIDUAL, NORMAL, HUMAN WOMEN.
Just because MANY American WM may still be ANTI-BW COWARDS/HATERS doesn’t mean BW are to blame for/responsible to change their ANTI-BW hangups.
Roz says,
I never understood the whole issue. I’m black and I’ve never had a problem dating white guys. I’ve only dated white guys in the last 5 years. But I have realized they see me differently. I sound like a white girl, (I do understand people say you can’t speak like a race but face facts there are differences in the way certain races speak) I shop at clothing stores that have a predominantly white customer base, and I share a lot of the same interest. Hockey, baseball, music… I’m pretty slim which gives off the impression that I’m in shape or I take great care of myself. I also have a great personality along with great conversation and I get along with guys in general. I’m a guys girl which has seem to work in my favor a lot.
I do have to say that most white guys that I have dated, I was their first black girl and probably last. Most never thought they would be attracted to a black girl before they met me so I wouldn’t say it’s just a white and black thing. It’s about how most black females carry themselves. Let’s face it. Most black females fit the stereotypes. I don’t want to be friends let alone in the same vicinity as the angry black woman so I understand why white men wouldn’t want to date most black women.
I also understand that some white guys are curious about dating a black woman and unfortunately for me I seem to be their “one shot”. A lot of my white male friends admit a lot of things to me. Mostly because they feel they can talk to me about it and I won’t be offended. But bottom line is if more black women were more appealing in all aspects….there wouldn’t be an issue.
Overall It may be a generation thing (I’m 23) but I know a lot of white guys who wouldn’t mind having mixed children, dating a black girl and so on. Which is great because that means times are changing. I would love to see more interracial couples and families.
I know this is about marrying a black woman but it starts with dating and relationships. It’s hard to say if it would be hard for me to be considered marriage material to a white guy but I guess we’ll find out some years from now won’t we.
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laromana says,
King,
Thanks for addressing StandardNYCWhiteMan’s comments point by point. Your excellent LOGIC help to refute this commenter’s ANTI-BW lies, myths, and stereotypes.
It never ceases to amaze me when I see an American WM display such an OBVIOUS case of ANTI-BW HATE cloaked as “personal preference”. This guy’s final statement below summarizes the REAL reason behind his ANTI-BW HATE and is a reminder that MANY American WM have yet to learn how to view/treat BW like NORMAL, INDIVIDUAL, HUMAN women, NOT STEREOTYPES.
King says,
What makes you think that as a brown haired man that a blonde is “your kind?” What makes you think that a beautiful French expatriate woman is “your kind?” What makes you think that a woman outside of your economic or educational class is “your kind?” Do you feel as strongly about these divisions of kind as you do about skin color?
Hey man, I don’t really care if you find Black women attractive or not. I’m just trying to get you to consider some new perspectives on the subject
StandardNYCWhiteMan says,
In general, I think the world would be a happier place if people were content to mate with
their own kind: whites with white, blacks with black, asians with asian. (Speaking of whom, while I like asian culture more than I do black or even, increasingly, American culture, I do not find asian women to be all that attractive and I do not date them.) Miscegenation often makes for a lot of unhappy people, especially when gender imbalances leave some groups (black women, asian men) in the shallow end of the dating pool with disproportionately few prospects.
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@Marci
Same here. Ive attracted someone of every race. I actually prefer to date outside of my race 1. because of the lack of black guys I find attractive, with the same interests in hobbies/shows/music, is headed somewhere promising and then everything else I look for in a guy. It’s always been easier to find in a white guy and I’ve always felt more comfortable. 2) I’m pro IRR’s and I would love to be a part of bringing a beautiful mixture of races in this world. I wish everyone was mixed then maybe there wouldn’t be so much hostility and racism.
@laromana
Yes, it may be a generalization but I’m just going off things I’ve heard my white male friends say they prefer. They’re attracted to slim girls, everyone would like to find someone with similar interests and let’s face it…it’s not just the media. I rarely watch tv. I live in a predominantly polish, russian, and jewish suburb and I’m a nanny for a white family. The only time I come in contact with other well spoken, educated, open minded black individuals is when I head out to the city (chicago) and I meet people from the local universities like Columbia. I typically run into the stereotypical black female in other places like the mall or a clothing store, restaurant and so on. The loud ones, the ones with scowls on their faces, the ones who choose not to speak proper english.
People don’t just make these things up. It’s what we see in real life. Not the media. There was a radio segment by a black host that brought up the topic of black women stereotypes and how BW get upset about them but turn around and do the very same things or everywhere you turn there’s a BW doing one of those things. If people want the stereotypes to end they need to stop doing them. I don’t have this problem because nothing about me screams black. I don’t get offended because they don’t apply to me.
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Wow. StandardNYCWhiteMan… It makes me feel that beutiful bw are wasted in the US. I don’t understand why one would neglect a whole pool of beautiful women just because of prejudice. Just sayin’.
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I seriously doubt that this standardNYCWhiteMan is that much standard in anything, except perhaps in american racism. I know there are lots of guys who say they would never date or marry a black woman. One guy was in the gym where I go, and lo behold! The guy was away for a few months and came back with a kenyan wife! :-DDDDDD But there you go. Once we meet the right person, it really does not matter who is black and who is white. It might happen even to this stadardguy!
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I really do not understand this desire and need to date white men. Some black women think it shows that they have achieved something or that they are not “really black”. This is so depressing to see such self-hatred. Some even suggest that typical black characteristics include ghetto, loud, etc. So what of black British, black Africans, black Caribbean. What of educated black people? Are they not black if they do not conform to a specific stereotype related to a specific country?
I am not loud, I am a doctor, I am slim, etc BUT I am all black and proud of it. I do not need to date or marry a white man to feel I am of worth. A white man cannot validate you.
I am also surprised that so many women date many white guys? What is this about? Why do you allow yourself to go from guy to another? Is none of these men willing to marry you? How many of these white men shall you allow to use you as their bit of novelty? What’s the pride in that?
Stop hankering after white men. Hanker after love because that is what’s most important.
I am married to a white british man. I did not go out looking for a white man and I never thought I would date let alone marry a white man. I was simply not interested in them. However, we met here in London and fell in love. My advice is not do date any race exclusively. Just look for love and accept it in whatever colour it comes. Be it black as you, white, chinese etc.
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@Marci
Funny how we were talking about this yesterday and just this morning a white guy comes 3 lanes over to the empty lane just to say “hey you’re driving like you’re going somewhere” and then proceeded to tell me I was gorgeous. And we talked about work an stuff while at the red light. It was definitely a nice way to start the morning.
@Maureen
I dont feel like I NEED to date a white man or a man period. I haven’t been in a relationship in 2 years by choice. Some people date for fun, experience, interest at the time and then some date because they can see themselves having a future with that person. What people choose to do is their business. But I date races I’m attracted to. Why not experience what someone else has to offer? Dating within your race limits you. I graduated high school and decided I wanted to see what else was out there and I was happier with white guys than I was with black guys. I didn’t think I’d actually like black guys after that. But there’s actually a black guy I’m interested in now that I would be happy dating. We joke/talk about getting married all the time. It would crush my dreams of interracial kids but Im sure I could find a way around that.
I feel bad for the women who only date within their race. They’re so blind to other things, other people, traditions, cultures. My family doesn’t have any real traditions or anything like that. But I’ve loved experiencing things from different guys I’ve dated or been friends with. I want to be apart of things like that. Be open and exposed to other things I wouldn’t ordinarily be exposed to. So it’s never been about the guy being white and well off or anything like that. I’ve carefully thought about it all.
I also think if more people dated outside of their race it will kill a lot of the stereotype talks. I use to hear black girls say things about white guys all the time and it’s like have you ever dated or really gotten to know a white guy outside of your classroom or workplace and the answer is always no. They have no idea what they’re talking about. They just assume they know it all. I have many white male friends and therefore I rarely place any of these stereotypes or judgments on them.
Plus I’m a psych/pre med major at the moment and I plan to go into psychiatry so I will be a very busy girl for a long time and am very focused on where I want to be way before Im concerned with men. I’m open to love wherever it may be. But Im allowed to have my preference. I never thought people could say something negative about wanting to give other races a chance. I mean everyone argues that people are all people no matter their color so what difference does it make if I’m black and decided to date a white guy.
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Roz
I’m sorry that you see it in such a simplistic way. I am certainly not criticising anyone because of a mere preference. I am criticising a preference when it is an expression of self-hatred. Not necessarily to your good self, but towards those who look like you. I found your statement that your dreams of having mixed race kids would be crushed if you did end up marrying this black guy. If you ponder on that you might understand my concern. I would be very interested in understanding what is behind this dream.
You talk about stereotyping white people and yet turn around and stereotype black people. I live in Europe and the black people I know do not conform to this stereotype that you speak off. Moreover, no one needs to date someone of a different race to be exposed to different cultures or to experience different cultures. One can have such experiences without having to or needing to date someone of a difference race. By your reasoning, we would need to date the whole spectrum of races to truly appreciate different cultures.
Like I said, I did marry some white so I am certainly not against people dating or marrying others of different races. The fact that my husband is white is not even something I am really conscious of (unless I want to take a dig at him for something LOL). Further, insofar as I am a black woman, my mixed race kids must show the highest respect for black people – no less than they give to white folks. If they think they are any better than a 100% black person then they would clearly not be showing any respect for me. Indeed, as far as I am concerned, my kids are black of mixed heritage – no better than any one else.
Perhaps I do not understand your experience because here in the United Kingdom there is probably much more interaction between people of different races. So at university I had friends from a range of cultures and races, I work with people from different cultures and races and I attend church with people from different cultures and races. So the necessity of dating to experience different cultures is quite alien to me. Building friendships with people from different races and cultures does not necessitate dating them.
Preference is one thing but hankering after the acceptance of people from a different race is a whole different matter. You said that you developed your preference because white men has more in common with you than black men. I would ask, is it because of their colour or is it simply that you share similar interest? Is it also not possible that there are black men who share similar interests? Then I would suggest your preference is for men with similar interests as you. Unless of course your preference is for their skin colour and their features. Then indeed that would be unique to them.
While you pursue your preference, I would also suggest that you do not denigrate the rest of the black race by stereotyping all of us or even considering yourself better than those you consider to be loud and ghetto (or whatever else).
There are some black people I can never be friends with or hang around with. Not because they are black but because of their attitude and the fact that I do not share their interests. I can say the same for some white people, asians, etc. It is not because of their race but rather because I either do not like their attitudes or I share no common interests with them. Likewise, I have a preference for and wwill hang around those (regardless of race) with whom I share the same interests.
What I say may not apply to you Roz. I am just putting forward my views on the matter. So do not take it personally.
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@Maureen
No you don’t have to date someone to bring in those experiences. But I want them a part of my life. I mean you can’t just walk into someones living room and expect them to share things like that with you. I don’t want just moments I want them incorporated in my lifestyle. Not because I just picked one out of a book or heard it somewhere and decided to do it. But because it’s something to share with someone special.
And the interracial kids isn’t about having beautiful mixed children. It’s about me thinking single races should be depleted. I’m tired of hearing white, black, brown, yellow, asian, african american, hispanic whatever. I’m just tired of hearing about it. So many people feel they should date within their race and I love seeing families of different backgrounds because they decided to fall in love with love. They didn’t feel like they needed to stay within their race and neither do I. I’ve painted my family portrait in my head and I want what I want. It would be the same if I’ve always wanted to live a gyspy lifestyle but then I marry someone I fell in love with who didn’t want that, love will probably win. If I fall in love and marry a black guy then my dream of an interracial family kind of dies.
And that is the big difference. I’ve been dying to move to the UK or Europe period. My mom use to live in Germany and she said the interactions with different races are sooo different compared to here. That there are interracial couples everywhere and no one sees it as being abnormal. In the US though it’s different. But I love that about Europe. And would love to experience it because it is nothing like that here.
Here you have some people of the black community who feel they shouldn’t do certain things because it’s lame or stupid or white. Which is really idiotic. I’ve been called white washed, white, and every other name under the sun because I like rock music, hockey and baseball. It’s really stupid things like that that makes me not want to be around people who think that way. So that’s part of the reasoning for my preferences. I’m not attracted to people like that. But like I said a met a black guy who shares my interests in music and hobbies and we both like shopping and learning and it’s great. But he definitely wasn’t an easy find. He’s the first I’ve been attracted in the last 5 years. It shouldn’t be that rare.
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I’m afraid that won’t help much.
It’s as if you have a group of unruly children fighting over who gets to play with the plastic giraffe. So you take it away from them. Five minutes later, they’re fighting over who plays with the ball. So you take it away. This happens again and again until, in exasperation, you take ALL OF THE TOYS away from the kids, just before lunch.
Five minutes later they’re fighting over who will be first in line for lunch.
*Taking away the things that people fight about does not take away the fight.*
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I don’t see the big deal about having preferences. Just don’t be hateful towards what you don’t like.Don’t date someone just to spite someone else and on very broard streotypes. As for me, I don’t find western attractive features on men attractive and I’m not into the culture.I don’t find big noses, bald/short hair, really thin/big lips and large butts good looking. I’m into the goth and rock subculture and my east african heritage. I’m hang around people with race hang ups and overly sensitive people. Like what you like. Some bm get really upset when I tell them I’m not into them. They think for some reason that every women is suppose to grateful for them to talk to you.
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@Maureen
A woman after my own heart 🙂 All of what you say is so relevant to me because it mirrors aspects of my life!!!! I agree with you wholeheartedly in your response to Roz too. The more I hear on this site with regards to BW/WM makes me think about things and try to put them into a perspective in terms of my own life experiences. I have posted my own thoughts on interacial relationships on other threads on the Abagond forum previously.
Basically I cringe when I hear one race revere another over their own, especially if there are to be children from this union but I am not so naive as to not realise that there must be a number of factors behind it too. Growing up I played with a girl who was mixed race – white mother black father. When her mum lost her temper with her she would say ‘such and such you bloody n***er’ and if I was there she would apologise profusely to me for saying it!!! Henceforth this girl had a problem with her complexion (which was dark compared to most mixed race kids we knew) her hair, which was more afro than even mine and most any aspect of culture that related to blackness/ethnicity. No wonder that girl had hang ups with a parent like that though, particularly as her dad was not a strong influence at all.
You are right when you say that in the UK there appears to be much more opportunity for race mixing socially than there seems to be in the US. Not sure why that is (except by contrast we all seem to be living on top of each other in this country lol, teeny by comparison as it is). That is not to say though that we dont experience the same stereotypes and prejudices though.
I know the Black/White thing is more prevalent in my head than it is in my hubbys but to that I guess we can add to that that as a WM he is least likely to encounter prejudice than me as a black person and a female so discrimination for me is potentially doubled!
Anyway, similarly to you I feel that variety IS the spice of life and I couldnt limit myself to one particular race. The specific and signficant reason for this is purely that I respond to the way I am being treated and when people treat me well, whatever ‘guise’ that comes under I am happy to embrace that. Simplistic I know but hey, life can be complicated and difficult enough as it is.
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@ Roz, perhaps indeed there is a stark difference between the racial relationships here in the UK and in the USA. Most certainly in London, people typically have friends of different races. I am not talking about a passing moment thing but real friends. As far as I can remember, I have had friends and colleagues from different races and different cultures.
Unfortunately, no matter where you go there will be some people who might feel peeved that you do not conform to their idea of what a black person should like, wear, or do. I would say that this would be a minority here. Europe has a model of integration. So schools are filled with people of different races, neighbours filled with people of different races, etc. Of course, there will be some areas that are predominantly black, or predominantly white but that is few and far between and even then it is “predominantly” rather than “solely”.
I agree with King, even if all of us were mixed race, we would find something to fight about. The ‘us’ versus ‘them’ mentality is very human. A world filled with mixed race people might differentiate on who is lightest or grade people depending on what mix they are. People will always find something to make them feel that they belong to a unique group. Even within races, people find a way to differentiate. Blacks for instance differentiate by who is lightest, more European features, etc. Whites differentiate by socio-economic class or who is mos anglo-saxon. Humans are just a mess! LOL!
Through it all, I think the best thing is to have self-awareness. No matter what other people think about us we must value ourselves and love ourselves. Whether white men love us or hate us is neither here nor there. Who we are and our happiness do not depend on them or what they think. Frankly I do not care why so few white men marry black women. That is their problem and their loss. I am aware of the angry, loud, and aggressive black women you speak of. However, we must be sympathetic (to some extent). They were not born that way. Their experiences and the way society treats them have contributed to that bitterness.
Have a pleasant day and do come over to Europe. You will love it! … and yes, mixed race relationships are as “common as muck”.
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“Yet on the other hand I cannot shake from my mind the way white men, at least in New York, act as if black women are not living, breathing women. Like some of the white commenters, they see them as black first and women second – if at all.”
but you said it yourself Abagond: “I grant that most black women would prefer to marry a black man.”
I mean it’s hard not to pick up on that preference. Why subject yourself to the inevitable rejection right? At least that’s what I used to think.
WM learn around high school age that BW really have no interest in dating us. But what most of us don’t realize is that this kind of softens up as we get older. And these days it’s not really safe to assume that a black woman wouldn’t date you just because you’re white.
White dudes try it out, next time you see a black woman who looks good to you, make eye contact/small talk/smile and i’ll bet you get farther that you think.
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laromana says,
Roz,
Just because you only happen to meet certain BW who seem to fit ANTI-BW stereotypes doesn’t make it O.K. for you (or ANYONE) to generalize ANTI-BW stereotypes to ALL BW.
Regardless of how many BW may/may not “conform” to ANTI-BW stereotypes, BW are NORMAL, INDIVIDUAL, HUMAN women who deserve to be treated as such by EVERYONE.
ANTI-BW HATE has historically been (continues to be) the standard American culture/media uses to judge ALL BW (regardless of who we are as individuals) and it’s offensive/problematic when certain Black people choose to view BW in this warped manner.
In America, it’s not uncommon to find ANTI-BW Whites/Non-Blacks who don’t know /have never met BW who “MAKE THINGS UP” about them on the basis of ANTI-BW lies, myths, and stereotypes. Interestingly enough, these Whites/Non-Blacks don’t apply these same stereotypes to NON-BW who behave the same way.
Roz says,
The only time I come in contact with other well spoken, educated, open minded black individuals is when I head out to the city (chicago) and I meet people from the local universities like Columbia. I typically run into the stereotypical black female in other places like the mall or a clothing store, restaurant and so on. The loud ones, the ones with scowls on their faces, the ones who choose not to speak proper english.
People don’t just make these things up. It’s what we see in real life. Not the media. There was a radio segment by a black host that brought up the topic of black women stereotypes and how BW get upset about them but turn around and do the very same things or everywhere you turn there’s a BW doing one of those things. If people want the stereotypes to end they need to stop doing them. I don’t have this problem because nothing about me screams black. I don’t get offended because they don’t apply to me.
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@StandardNYCWhiteMan:
I’m sure all the black women or any woman for that matter is crying in their Corn Flakes because you find them ‘unattractive’ and the copious other reasons you gave. Snark sniffle snark!!!!!
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StandardNYCWhiteMan, I’m sure all black women or any woman for that matter is crying in their Corn Flakes because you find them ‘unattractive’, plus, that whole screed you typed is a turn-off also. Sniffle, snark schnooo!!!
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Shoot, this guy’s tome has got me cross-eyed!!!
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LoL @ “blond to red colored hair and correspondingly white skin.” You could have done a better job than that inane “self”-description. Why toss that mess in anyway? No one cares what you look like. And including dubious STD statistics in your four volume encyclopedia was also a bad idea — if Black women are too hideous, loud, ghetto etc. to even begin to bother with, why weigh your chances of contracting an STD from one of us bugbears? Your only purpose in even mentioning STD’s in the first place was not to inform Black women of anything but to scare off white male readers from considering Black women as potential mates. Also, who has in-depth group discussions concerning their lack of attraction for someone…or even something? (“None of us likes gorgonzola cheese. Let’s talk about it…again…duh.”) Imbeciles or rejects would be my guess.
The whole point of your post was not to inform Black women, but to convince those who may be straddling the fence about IR dating that they should drop the idea of dating/marrying out of the race. As white men can’t possibly find them attractive — and that they “heard this straight from the horse’s mouth (ie from a typical white man himself).
It was a nice try, though!
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@laromana
I find that if people respected themselves, they would conduct themselves in a respectful manner. Many of the BW I come into contact with do not carry themselves in a respectful manner. I like to surround myself with like minded people. If you don’t respect yourself enough to speak proper english, act like a mature adult, and stop being rude then how can you expect me to respect you. I could easily act the way they do. But I don’t. I don’t want to look like an ignorant fool.
If I didn’t want people to think of me as a selfish egotistical bitch (for example) then I would stop acting like one. If the cocky heartless douche bag doesn’t want to be perceived that way, he should stop acting like one. I can’t get upset for people calling me a brat when I act like a brat. People need to learn to own up to how they are. If you don’t like what someone has to say to you ignore it or change it.
Life isn’t fair and I wouldn’t judge someone unfairly. We can all only go off of impressions. Portray yourself they way you want to be seen and you don’t have to worry about it. I don’t think all BW are a certain way. Clearly I am not and I know others like me. People shouldn’t be so sensitive.
I’ve heard people say they dislike ghetto/ignorant people in general. Doesn’t mean you have to be black to be that way. They’re aware of so called “white trash” and rednecks and hispanics and other races that act the same way. It’s just that in certain areas its predominantly black people that you see conduct themselves that way.
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@Maureen
I can’t say i’m sympathetic because I’ve been through a lot myself. From guys in general. I’ve been hurt too. I could be bitter towards black/white/hispanic men or just men in general. But who is that hurting? Me. It’s a choice. You can choose to move on and get on with your life. Or you can choose to sit and sulk like a child and blame everyone and everything for why you’re unhappy. Truth is we are all in charge of our own happiness and too many black people in general are so stuck on how someone else has put them in the predicament they’re in. Everyone just needs to own up to their “ish” so to speak. Shit happens. Learn from it and move on. Not go around being bitter and angry towards people who did nothing to you. Or even to the person who did.
They want sympathy if you ask me. Someone to say I understand why you are this way because of what happened and it’s okay. But it’s not okay. And the pointing of the fingers and blaming every tom, dick and harry has to stop as well.
I do agree though with King. I know the whole who’s lighter would be next and yes there’s always something but just because the road is going to get potholes anyway does that mean we shouldn’t fill them in to make our driving experience better and safer?
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First of all every person has there on view on thing second of all its really just sterotypes . third white , black really isnt a race its just skin pigments which seperates people into race groups which is really stupid . Because america susposed to stand for unity all as one but they organzined us into groups , and fourth your skin does not define your personallity , there are trashy , gettho people who has white skin , and responsible , smart people who have black skin .
this is just my view im only 15 but i still havea voice and if you there are lots of white and black couples ! they dont care for skin!
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Roz says,
@laromana
I find that if people respected themselves, they would conduct themselves in a respectful manner. Many of the BW I come into contact with do not carry themselves in a respectful manner. I like to surround myself with like minded people. If you don’t respect yourself enough to speak proper english, act like a mature adult, and stop being rude then how can you expect me to respect you. I could easily act the way they do. But I don’t. I don’t want to look like an ignorant fool.
If I didn’t want people to think of me as a selfish egotistical bitch (for example) then I would stop acting like one. If the cocky heartless douche bag doesn’t want to be perceived that way, he should stop acting like one. I can’t get upset for people calling me a brat when I act like a brat. People need to learn to own up to how they are. If you don’t like what someone has to say to you ignore it or change it.
@Maureen
I can’t say i’m sympathetic because I’ve been through a lot myself. From guys in general. I’ve been hurt too. I could be bitter towards black/white/hispanic men or just men in general. But who is that hurting? Me. It’s a choice. You can choose to move on and get on with your life. Or you can choose to sit and sulk like a child and blame everyone and everything for why you’re unhappy. Truth is we are all in charge of our own happiness and too many black people in general are so stuck on how someone else has put them in the predicament they’re in. Everyone just needs to own up to their “ish” so to speak. Shit happens. Learn from it and move on. Not go around being bitter and angry towards people who did nothing to you. Or even to the person who did.
laromana says,
Roz, you’ve missed the main point that Maureen and I are making and that is that ANTI-BW HATERS hate BW SOLELY because they’re Black, NOT because the behavior of SOME BW may fit their ANTI-BW lies, myths, and stereotypes.
ANTI-BW HATE (like ALL forms of race HATE) is NOT RATIONAL.
An excellent example of this fact can be seen in the way ANTI-BW HATERS treat Michelle Obama. It doesn’t MATTER to HATERS that Mrs. Obama DOESN’T fit ANY ANTI-BW stereotypes since she is a BW. It wouldn’t matter to ANTI-BW HATERS if ALL BW on the planet didn’t fit ANY of their ANTI-BW stereotypes because, AS LONG AS THEY’RE BW they’re WORTHY of HATE.
Some may think that BW should just “ignore” ANTI-BW HATE/HATERS and “just live their lives” but mistreatment of BW at every level of American society (eg. employment, housing, justice system, etc.) is directly linked to ANTI-BW HATE and it MUST be challenged/condemned/destroyed.
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@laromana
It’s all bs really. You just sound really angry. A lot of bw always take offense to everything and it’s really not that serious. People are entirely too sensitive. I hear bw and bm talk about white people this and that and it’s totally ok to them. Not one person stops the conversation and says that’s not right. But if a bunch of white people are having a conversation about black people, bw and bm want to get offended. Blacks should stop being angry about everything and stop pointing the finger at everyone else. Always the woe is me. It’s annoying.
Instead of ranting and complaining, bw should prove them wrong if they care so much. If they dont they should just shut up and move on. What people think doesnt define you. So why care what someone says if it doesn’t apply to you.
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Roz, whilst I understand the angle at which you are approaching this issue, I must say that it is unwise to ignore that racism exist. It is unrealistic to turn a blind eye to the disadvantages faced by black people much of it outside of their control.
The reality of the situation will not change just by virtue of having a positive attitude.
Of course, we all have to accept personal responsibility but to not acknowledge the context within which we all operate is living in a fantasy world. Black folks do not enjoy a level playing field. It is as simple as that and we must acknowledge that. To ignore the obvious is a recipe for stagnation in the fight to achieve equality. The world has a long way to go in terms of racial equality. To get there, we cannot ignore that racism has caused and continue to cause a lot of psychological and emotional damage.
Like I said before, whilst I do not condone the behaviour of many black women and whilst I have a different approach to life than the loud and angry ones, I understand and sympathise with them. I understand why people can end up bitter and angry. I do not share their experience because my background is very different. If I walked in their shoes, had their parents, lived in their neighbourhood, etc I probably would be angry and bitter too. Many of these people are a product of their environment and it is not that easy to shake it off. This is just the reality. It takes a lot for them to buck the trend.
Many black women are angry towards white men because of the way white men treat them and the opinion that white men have about black women. Surely that anger is not hard to understand? If the French hate Americans and say all manner of nasty things about Americans, would you have a positive mindset towards them?
Let’s not be too dismissive of those who are different from us. We may not behave as they do but let us not denigrate them. They may simply be a product of their environment and experiences – and we may never understand what that is/was like.
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@Laromana
I’m far from angry. Maybe a little annoyed. I don’t think I can be faulted really because i’m only speaking based on my experiences. I hear more BP complaining about this and that than anything else. It’s always a “it’s because im black/woe is me” attitude. Like they’re attitude isn’t why they’re receiving the treatment they are getting.
Example. I went with friends to a nightclub that is known for being a little strict with males on the dress codes. Proper shoes and dress attire. I recommended the place because I’ve been there a lot and have never had a problem. I actually only knew a few of these people, the rest were there for my friends bday and everyone was black. In any case, in the time it took me to walk over to the atm, take out 40 bucks and come back they were already in a disagreement with security. Someone was wearing a suit. This guy happened to have a small frame so the pants looked baggy and it just didn’t suit his body frame. Granted not everyone can afford to have it fitted and altered but it doesn’t take rocket science to know who to hem your own pant leg or have someone do it for you.
The guy wasn’t allowed in and everyone was going off on security. The rules are simple yet they couldn’t understand why he wasn’t allowed in. Sorry if you don’t meet dress code you don’t meet the dress code. Next thing you know his brother was also getting tossed out of line since he continued to disagree with security as well. Then the other 2 girls had to add their 2 sense and talk amongst themselves (they claimed) but were speaking loud enough for security to hear. Security was annoyed and threw the whole group out.
If I were going out just to go to this club I would have said goodbye to them and gone in anyway with a friend of mine I brought with me who happened to be white. But I only came out to spend her birthday night out yet no one could conduct themselves in a civilized manner yet wanted to be upset about security and how it was their fault and they shouldn’t have spoken to them they way they did. Not once did anyone see their fault and why they were thrown out. Both security guards were minorities. One black and one of latin descent. So it wasn’t a black thing and I’ve gone plenty of times alone and have never had an issue. Yet this particular night they were all thrown out of line.
I’d like to see BP in a positive light as I see myself but the fact is I don’t come across many like myself. I’m not saying the don’t exist. I’m only saying I don’t know many.
You notice how I ignored your arrogant and irrational comment…that’s because it doesn’t apply to me. Im neither of those things therefore I don’t take offense to it. I’m not getting upset and ranting about how you have no idea who I am and how dare you call me arrogant and irrational. It’s clear you don’t me. Why state the obvious. Your judgement of me is likely to be wrong. After reading your comments I think it would be a likely deduction that you could be angry. But that’s just a feeling. If I’m wrong I’m wrong. You however taking a stab at my character and thought process seems a bit much. I pride myself on being very rational and many guys I know will agree with that. However I’m just pointing that out.
@Maureen
I don’t turn a blind eye to racism. But I’m not fighting someone else’s battle when they can just alter the way they act and be seen in a different light. I use to be an angry black teen. But eventually you grow up and realize the world sucks sometimes, no one owes you anything and no it’s not always right that people will judge you but fact is it’s going to happen. I’ve dated a polish guy who’s father didn’t approve because I was black. It’s not right but I know who I am and there shouldn’t have been a reason for him to feel that way. But Im not going to be angry about it. His issue not mine. I can’t be angry about every bad thing that has happened to me. It doesn’t hurt anyone except me.
I could have stayed angry at the world. I could be carrying on like the group I was with at the nightclub. But I don’t because I don’t want to be seen that way. Not everyone is stuck. Make a decision to change and find a way to get it done. I can understand why people feel angry and bitter and maybe discouraged but it doesn’t mean it’s okay for them to act the way they do. There’s a quote I live by “I don’t accept weakness in myself therefore I don’t except it in others.” I’ve been through a lot and have the scars to prove it. But I’m not out there asking anyone for sympathy. No one should.
“Let’s not be too dismissive of those who are different from us. We may not behave as they do but let us not denigrate them. They may simply be a product of their environment and experiences – and we may never understand what that is/was like.”
Should we be just as understanding for racist people, rapist, women and child abusers, sociopaths, murderers and so forth as well? I don’t think anyone is trying to understand where any of those people are coming from and why they act the way they do. No one is sitting around giving them sympathy based on what they could have gone through to make them that way. Bottom line is you would probably think it isn’t a valid excuse or that their acts keep them from deserving sympathy. Granted those are more serious but I feel the same way about them all. I would be curious as to why, from a psychology standpoint, but I wouldn’t allow it to be their get out of jail free card.
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Roz, with regards to your example of people being thrown out of the club; this is certainly not a black only experience. This happens across races. I am sure in any one night, the same experience would have repeated itself (across the US) with different races and combination of races involved.
With regards to your response to my post; firstly, I will say that you should consider thinking wider than just “me”. Insofar as you are black, your destiny is entwined with the destiny of the black race. Indeed, we all operate as individuals but as a black person, the way the world sees you will largely depend on how it sees black people. Granted, once people get to know you, they will see you as an individual. However, until that time, you are simply a black woman in the ocean of black women. You are tossed in and judge like the rest. Therefore, when you say you are not fighting anyone’s battle for them, you are in fact saying you are not fighting your battle.
I am always on the ready to advance the cause of black people no matter how ghetto or sick they may make me. I do not see it as fighting their battle but as fighting our battle. Until the fight for equality is won, the battle is mine as much as it is theirs … and yes, I will always seek to understand where they are coming from and that does not mean excusing their behaviour but rather understanding the context (the why and the how).
To compare the pyschological damage done to black people, the injustice they face, and the unfair world they battle each day with criminal minded people or criminal behaviour is rather odd, to say the least. This is chalk and cheese. Indeed, I feel insulted that you would equate the plight of black people with the issue of criminal behaviour and influences leading to that criminal behaviour. The only thing these two issues have in common is that unsavoury behaviour is on display. That’s it! The context is so different, the history so different and the experience so different (one is experience mainly by one group of people, the other cuts across race, age, and gender). I could go on to expose the fallacy of your comparison but there is no point in it as it certainly isn’t the focus of this topic.
Nevertheless, let me close by saying, no matter what the situation, I do believe it is our responsibility as civilised human beings to seek to understand our fellowmen (and yes, that would include criminals). Knowledge is power and knowing can help us help those who are caught in the grips of unsavoury behaviours. Furthermore, it keeps us humble and enables us to be thankful for our luck for indeed, it simply a twist of fate that you are not like one of them. If you were born into their family, lived in their neighbourhood, etc you might have been like them. Where you are born, your parents, your experience and early life experiences are really a luck of the draw. You do not choose it and it can have lasting consequences. The true character of a wo(man) is to be humble and thankful and above all to show compassion and grace towards his fellowmen no matter how much we may think they are lesser mortals.
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Abagond:
I disagree with your premise that whitemen don’t marry whitewomen in the US because they don’t want half-black children. That rule doesn’t apply to other whitemen, specifically those from the middle-east and latin-america. As I’ve said before many times on this blog, whitemen chose blackwomen over their own women, so, let’s bury that dead horse for good going forward. Whitemen showed their true colors, and they should be man enuf to state the obvious. This issue is about power, nothing more, nothing less. Yes, whitemen have access to certain groups of blackwomen who lack a strong foundation, but that doesn’t apply to all sistas…latin sistas are the obvious example. The harsh reality for whitemen is that most blackwomen don’t desire them, and a lot of whitewomen don’t desire them either, Ditto! Whitemen can’t win either way. What’s the point of loving whitewomen, when they don’t appreciate them anyway? What’s the point of loving blackwomen, when their hearts are elsewhere? Abagond, I’m not saying that it’s impossible for a blackwoman and whiteman to genuinely love each other, but it’s not an equal relationship. Blackwomen are still dealing with all of the bs from slavery and racism that whitemen are to blame for, so, how can any self-respecting blackwoman reward the male offspring of the same men who’ve caused her and fellow blackwomen so much pain? What have whitemen done as a group of men to deserve the affection of any blackwoman, regardless of national origin? Latin sistas have no problem spreading their legs for white spaniards, but, What have they gained from all of their inter-racial escapades, Not Much!? I’m not trying to put negritas on blast, but, they’re a case study on the pros and cons of WM/BW relationships and marriages.
Tyrone
Reality Mode
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Tyrone, I have never read such uneducated and ignorant rubbish for a very, very long time.
By the way, I am married to a white man and I can assure you that there is nothing unequal about our relationship – certainly nothing unequal where I am at a disadvantage. So please, stop theorizing about what the dynamics of a relationship between a white man and a black woman.
… and my dear brother, I cannot believe you have the unmitigated gall to suggest that a black woman who marries a white man lacks self respect. My brother, you need a check up from the neck up. Such ignorance belongs in a bygone era. Your irrational reasoning indicates that you are the one struggling with self-respect and indeed, respect for others. You are the black equivalent of this white dude who was sprouting a bag of utter nonsense earlier on this forum.
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The point is that anything can happen to anyone and make them act a certain way. BW is beaten by her father and raped and beaten by other random men her mother brought home and therefore has this bitter anger towards men in general now. The same could happen to another person and cause them to in turn beat and rape their own or other children. Or cause them to kill men that remind them of those who have wronged them before.
It’s all about how you handle a situation that makes us different. My point is that regardless yes it’s a bad situation for anyone. But I don’t really have much sympathy when they choose to act the way they do afterwards. Not to mention it has a lot to do with me as a person. Im not a very emotional person. I don’t connect with most on an emotional level. INTP personality type. So despite the situation I’d more than likely feel the same because I’m wired that way. Nothing against BP in general. For the kid who grew up in a bad home should I say it’s okay for him to steal? He’s only a product of his environment.
I would be satisfied if someone would just say it’s not okay for anyone black/white/asian/hispanic/indian etc to play the woe is me card and conduct themselves in an uncivilized manner because that’s what their environment has taught them. It’s about as ridiculous as schools tossing around the idea to somehow bring ebonics into the classroom when teaching inner city students. To teach on their level instead of making them rise above themselves. That’s what it’s about. By allowing people to conduct themselves in such a manner we’re saying it’s okay and we’re not giving them a push to become better than what they are. We’re saying hey it’s okay I know what you’ve been through. I understand. Which is only coddling them. Not helping them.
And its quite a pet peeve that people like to always point out “well that could happen with any race.” Im obviously not stupid. I know it’s not just a black thing nor did I say it was. But the topic is on black women. Therefore it doesn’t make a lot of sense to say I saw a group of asians or hispanics do the same before. That’s my point. People are so quick to be offended or stand up for something or someone when in reality it wasn’t singling anyone out in particular. If I’m talking about apples bruising…does that mean I’m saying it’s the only fruit that bruises?
I do however agree with your last paragraph.
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That last one was for Maureen. I forgot to mention that.
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Abagond:
Roz & Maureen
I’m fully aware of blackmen who’ve abused blackwomen emotionally, physically, and sexually. I beat up on them all the time, OK!? My mind wasn’t focused on them when I wrote the previous post. That being said, whitemen are still the main antagonist. Yes, blackmen don’t love and respect their black sisters as much as they should, but don’t give whitemen a pass because of foolish negroes. The two of you may think the fight is over, It’s Not Over! When powerful whitemen view blackmen such as myself a bigger threat than black males who kill, rape, and rob……It’s A Big F***** Deal. Hate me as much as you want, “You better hope and pray I’m the brotha you see walking down the block at midnight!!!
Tyrone
Reality Mode
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Tyrone, I can’t say I understand your rant. I don’t fully understand what you are talking about. However, suffice it to say that I do not think the fight for equal rights and justice (and respect) is over – if that is the fight you are referring to.
As to the rest of your post, it is not altogether properly articulated so I cannot say more.
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@Tyrone
I agree with Maureen. I have no idea what you are talking about.
@Maureen
I responded to your post.
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I agree with Laromana.
@ TexT1…you said you would have no problem having a sexual relationship with Black women but you would never marry one. And you definitely would never entertain the thought of children with her.
That seems to indicate a problem within you. Why is a Black woman only good enough to have sex with?
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Well, I’m a 28 year old White man from Eastern Europe. I’m going to move to London soon. My dream to marryin a decent Black lady. In the country where I come from, there as only a few Black ladies, and it was so difficult to contact them…I hope in London it will be easier.
I don’t know the Black community there, but I hope I will find in Londo at least one Black lady who could be interested in a serious relationship with a White man.
To be sincer, as a see, Black ladies are 100-times better than the White woman. Not only in apeearence.( In my humble opinion, Black ladies are the most beautiul in the world.), but also when we talk about their souls. Black ladies in general have much better hearth. It seems like Black ( especially the African) Ladies can be good wifes and mothers. ( which today can be hardly said about most of White woman)
The question of the topic (“Why so few white men marry Black women?”) is wrong. Lot of white men want marry Black woman…but not all of them can find Black lady to marry….
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Apologies Roz
You said that it all depends on how one handles a situation. However, you do not acknowledge that whilst we may be born with certain innate abilities, the way we respond to things is conditioned by our upbringing.
So, the way many people choose to respond to perceived or real persecution will depend on the many influences that shape their lives up to that point.
It is not that easy to shake off the cloak that is thrust upon us from young.
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Roz, to add; Indeed, we are talking about black women. However, it is not at all unreasonable to point to the fallacy of an argument levelled at black women when it is used in such a way as to single them out as being the main purveyors of this behaviour.
If the behaviour is common to all races, then why bring it up as an issue with black women? Why should black women be any different? What are we not just as susceptible to the follies of life? It is unfair to apply a different standard or to have different expectations where black women are concerned.
Let me also reiterate that whilst I do not excuse the unsavoury behaviour of black women (or any race of women for that matter), I believe it is good practice to show empathy and to understand where they are coming from. Showing compassion does not mean one excuses these anti-social behaviours. You can condemn something but still seek to understand WHY it is happened or why it has happened.
@Matt, best wishes to you. Let me sound one word of caution. It is best not to idolize a race of women or to think that one race of women are better than another. Please do see each person you meet (regardless of race) as an individual and judge them as an individual. You have your preference and that’s quite alright but that does not mean you should despise another group of women in a bid to demonstrate or justify your preference.
If you do fall in love, I hope you fall in love with the person and love them for who they are. I hope you do not fall in love with the person because of their race. Personally, I would be offended if my husband’s love for me was first predicated on some fetish or yearning for a black women.
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Maureen
Thank You. I will remember your words.
You know, I always dremed about living in the USA. And it also seems that even dating and marrying a Black lady is much more easier for a White man in United States than in Europe. Unfortunately its so difficult to get the Green Card nowadays. ( Almost impossible , if you are not a millionaire…what a pity.
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@Matt
And it also seems that even dating and marrying a Black lady is much more easier for a White man in United States than in Europe
Hmmm, from the posts on most forums like this I would say that it is not as cut and dried as all that but I am not coming from a knowledgeable perspective as I dont live in the US – perhaps someone on here can enlighten you?
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Don’t know about the US but black woman/white man relationships are quite common in the UK.
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“And it also seems that even dating and marrying a Black lady is much more easier for a White man in United States than in Europe”
There are definitely more Black women here (albeit unevenly spread out over 50 states) than in any given European country — that alone will give you more of a chance to meet a Black woman who is suitable for you — but that’s pretty much where the perceived US advantage ends. I must add, though, that being European might be to your advantage in meeting a Black woman here, in the US. There are quite a few Black women who are not open to dating American whites, but who are open to dating European guys.
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Parfum Bleu, you may be right. However, one flaw in your argument. You use absolute numbers to deduce Matt’s chances. It really is probability that counts. So although the US may have more black women (in absolute terms), it does not mean the probability of meeting or marrying one is any greater than in Europe.
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I’ve always found it amusing that the title of this series wasn’t “Why so few black women marry white men”.
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Maureen:
Hmmm. My apologies, as as I’m not much for mathematics. I was trying to figure out his reasoning for stating that dating/marriage are much easier in the US for white men who are interested in Black women. My statement meant that his chances were greater ONLY in numbers, but that’s where it ENDS (i.e. with numbers alone). His probability of actuality meeting a like-minded Black woman here is not all that great (though they’re no where close to zero) in the US. I thought I’d made all that clear when I wrote: “that’s pretty much where the perceived US advantage ends.”
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Sorry for the typos/errors
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Parfum Bleu, it’s not a big deal neither did I wish for it to be perceived as such. It is not a matter of the probability of meeting a “like-minded” black women. I am just referring to the plain old probability of meeting/marrying a black woman (factoring like-minded simply makes that probability even smaller regardless on which side of the pond you are).
Anyway, shall we drop this as I sense we are in danger of engaging in a side issue that hardly seems productive. You must excuse me for being too pedantic. I nit pick too much!
I guess, my point was simply that it really is the luck of the draw and I haven’t got a clue whether the probability of marrying a black women is greater in the US or here in the UK. I can only say that inter-racial relationships involving black women and white men are not unusal here in the UK. Is it more common than in the US? I do not know as I have very little knowledge of the US experience.
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As a European male attracted to black women I often wonder whether it is a fetish to me. But then again, I am very choosy when it comes to ‘nordic’ women as well. Despite of the woman’s ethnicity, I’m attracted to intelligent, beautiful (matter of taste) women with warm hearts and a big smile.
It confuses me that there are bm out there that think a wm like me is somehow an adversary, someone desperately trying to tear down black communities. Say what? I don’t tear down, I build my own.
I just want to find a fulfilling relationship. I will never let anybody dictate who I should be attracted to.
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I agree with Anghese. The question of this topic should be :”Why so few Black women marry White men?”.
There are plenty White men around the world( including me) who want to marry a decent Black lady, but its so difficult to find one, who could be interested in a serious relationship with a White male…Or at least, I’ve had this experience…
Not every man necessarily wants a Black Lady who is so beautiful like Rihanna, Gabrielle Union, Naomi Campbell,Iman etc. I’d just like a decent Black lady with good hearth, even if she’s divorces or with one little child. But its still difficult to find one.
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Personally, I don’t understand why marriage is such a big deal. Me? Never married, but a single father of one.
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@ Matt
I couldn’t count all of the good Black women I know who are decent, open-minded, and lonely. It’s amazing that these two realities exist separately.
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@King
I suppose this is what pisses of most: that there are women who feel unwanted, and that there are men who desperately want those unwanted women.
I, for one, would welcome BAW to Europe, maybe just to explore your chances.
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Hannu L, that’s the beauty of life – different strokes for different folks. You do not understand why marriage is a big deal (and there are many who hold the same view with strong reasons why). However, there are many who thinks it is a big deal and have equally deep convictions as to why it is important.
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@Maureen
Yes, preferencies are personal. I’m just questioning the whole premise. To me, a meaningful relationship is imperative, and marriage is just a legal manifestation of our soul companinship. Hopefully…
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@King
In which country , which do those decent and open-minded Black Ladeis live?
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California!!! 🙂
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@King
I wish I could live in California…
It was always my dream. Now I’ve just got one more reason to move there…
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“I wish they all could be California Girls”
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@KIng
Is there lot of coulples formd by WM and BW in LOs Angeles?
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got it, having problems with my link, sorry if i posted too much but i could not get my link up having problems with my blog
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@ Matt & @King
In which country , which do those decent and open-minded Black Ladeis live?
Ere! And in the UK, dont forget about the Black Beauties from ol’ Bligthy 🙂
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@Bulanikgirl
I definately agree that it is with you there. Thats not to say that there aren’t any issues ever or certain tensions between individuals/families/friends but there is an openess here and the willingness and ability to diversify.
Now why is that? Be interested to hear your thoughts on why this is?
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@DEmerera & Bulanikgirl
So, do you mean that Black ladies in the UK are usually ope-minded to date/ marry a White man.
I hope You are right…
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@Bulanikgirl
Even porr White man, who is not even a British citizen ( but who is living and working legally in Britain) could have a chance with a decent Black woman ( for a serious relationship) in Britain?
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@Matt, I have followed your questions and I am beginning to wonder how genuine you are. I must say, your type and style of questions are edging towards bizarre.
If you are interested in meeting a black woman, then my simple suggestion to you is relax. This is not a hunt. Black women are not some game out in the wilderness with you needing to figure out where they are most populous to increase your chance of catching one.
Wherever you choose to relocate, choose because you WANT to go to that place. Do NOT base your choice on whether there are lots of available black women or not. Why your choice of where to relocate should depend on your chance of meeting a black woman is, to say the least, rather odd.
Anyway, each to his own. I think everyone wants to be loved for who they are and not for or because of their skin colour.
Your fixation on black women is yours to understand but be careful it does not turn into something unhealthy because you would hurt/disappoint yourself and others in the process.
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@Matt
Even porr White man, who is not even a British citizen ( but who is living and working legally in Britain) could have a chance with a decent Black woman ( for a serious relationship) in Britain?
Listen, Matt, Whilst I know and understand why men would want to date Black women, clearly as one myself I am biased 🙂 personally I am uncomfortable with any race disregarding other races for one kind of race, particularly when it is their own race but thats just my opinion.
If you are sincere and meet someone with similar values to yourself then of course you will have the chance of a serious relationship whatever guise that comes. I am guessing that you havent encountered many black women in a romantic context? I am curious as to what makes you so driven to meet a BW? I hope that whatever your reason you treat each woman you meet as individuals and generally if you are decent to them them will reciprocate and be decent to you.
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But, to my mind, the white women who kept their families together and raised their children really put up with hell from all quarters, and, I feel the Black community owe them a debt for their fortitude. In a roundabout, indirect way, I think white women from yesteryear have contributed to the open-ness of Black women (and many South Asian women as well) to have mixed relationships.
Yes, there is no question that whether wittingly or unwittingly British WW contributed to boundaries being broken down somewhat. You have also made some valid points regarding BW and WM in terms of the fact that usually there isnt much objection. Thats not to say it is trouble free in terms of individuals but in the main, its becoming more rare for people to bat an eyelid at a ‘mixed’ couple than previously.
I would be interested to hear about the experiences of black people in more rural areas of the UK though – are they constantly having to battle aginst it or does their ‘difference’ go unnoticed?
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@Demerera
“I’m curious as to what makes you so driven to meet a BW?”
Well, have you ever asked a Black man what makes him so driven to meet a White woman?
Bur answering your question: I think that it’s always a question of personal choices. ( Forget that s..t about “fetish” or things like that.)
Basically, most of Black ladies are not only beautiful but usuaaly ( as I see.) they can be good wifes and mothers, too. Of course every race has some decent women…but if you try to see probbaly how many percent of the woman of each race is decent…Black womwn are in the first place, no doubt about it.
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@ Maureen & Demerera
I used to go through quite a bit of trouble in regards to battling “fetish” attraction. But then, I began to realize how much intra-racial romance is built upon self-fulfilling same-race fantasies about ourselves. In the case of Asians, I make more of a fuss, only because it has become so pervasive, and because it has been so often championed at the expense of Asian men.
But, for the most part, as long as a guy from another race is not denigrating Black males in his pursuit of Black women, I no longer question WHY he happens to be attracted to them so specifically. I figure that if a Black man can like black women (based on his own particular fantasies of them) why can’t a White guy do the same? Indeed, much of romance has it’s basis in one fantasy or another.
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@Matt
Well, have you ever asked a Black man what makes him so driven to meet a White woman?
Well, in all honesty I have wondered in some cases, particularly when it is the the exclusion of his own race and where the WW in question is openly disdainful about aspects of their culture or other black people in general – paticularly BW but thats another story…
@King
You make good points – at least from my perspective its not so hard to understand why Matt would want a BW 🙂
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@Demerera
You shouldn’t judge a man because he wants to date/ marry a woman from an another race. Wake up, it’s the 21th century…A high percent of White men date marry ladies from another race ( not only Black). It’s question of personal choice, not “the exclusion of his own race”, as you said.
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@Bulanik
Fantasies are fantasies and cannot be sustained in the long run. Why? Simple! Cognitive dissonance. People who rely on fantasies must at some point wake up to reality. Furthermore, fantasies cannot maintain a relationship in the long run. Such things are not the solid foundations upon which a serious, respectful, and meaningful relationship can be built.
People are people. I do not believe black women are any more spiritual than women of other races. Again, this is just a stereotype that does not accord with reality. Look around you in the UK, are the black women any more spiritual than women of other races? Really? In what way?
People should be judged on an individual basis and all these nonsense stereotypes (whether they favour us or not) should be put in their rightful places – that is, the bin!
I am married to a white man. He values me as a woman and as a person. He values me for my outer and inner beauty too. However, I do not think I am any more beautiful within or outward than my white counterparts. My husband and I chose each other for who we are and what we were looking for in a mate.
Black women are not better inside or out than white women and the reverse is true. In fact, my experience is that we black women tend to be far more outwardly hostile than women of other races. However, as I made clear in many of my previous posts, I am very much aware as to why many of us have this attitude. I include myself in this as I am a black woman – though I do not subscribe to these hostile attitudes.
As to Matt, you feel he is genuine. Demerera and I have the same unease and doubts. Each to his own. Our sixth sense told us something different to what you sixth sense tells you. Each to his own I say.
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@Matt and King – There is a fundamental flaw in your argument. Same race attraction is very much rooted in nature. It is not based on fantasy. People naturally gravitate to those who look like them, talk like them, etc. Same happens in the animal kingdom.
I have no problems with people and whatever their fetish is (as long as it is not illegal and does not infringe on my rights). However, most women, whether white or black, want to be loved for who they are and would like to have a long term/sustained relationship. A relationship based on fetish will not do the stretch.
If my relationship with my husband was based on fetish, then we would be up the creek without a paddle. You need more than a fetish to sustain you through challenges. As for me, I would not want to have a relationship with anyone based on a festish. Call it pride but I would be downright turned off by it.
Now as to why black men are attracted to white women – that is a whole story in itself. Lots of historial and psycho-analytics would be needed here. Black man attraction to white women is different for the most part to white man fantasy of being with a black woman. When we are talking about fantasies and fetishes, these cannot be divorced from their historical and pyschoanalytic context.
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@Bulanikgirl
First to address the latter part of your post. I have no interest, neither did I attempt to make an opinion on how you feel or what your instincts tell you. Why you should head in that direction is beyond my comprehension at this time. Apart from questioning Matt’s motive I do not wish to bring this rather interesting debate to the level of getting into the minds or hearts of the people who are posting. Whatever led you to this reaction, I insist that you do not project it on to me.
As to the rest of your posts, in the context of the discussion and your previous posts, the examples you gave were for a reason and you asked the corresponding questions for a reason. They seemed to have been used to draw out your point or make a connection. Taken together, I drew the conclusions I drew. If you think they are mistaken, then clarify yourself. Simple! Presumably when you ask a question you do allow the person responding to respond according to how they construe your argument. If I misunderstood your point, that is one thing but if I choose to address the overall message I got from your post should not be a problem. You may not have given a DEFINITIVE answer, but you did give an answer because you examples were given by you for a reason.
So do tell, the purpose of the examples you gave and how they can be extrapolated to black women/white men dating/marrying. What do these examples mean in the context of the discussion?
On the fantasy/fetish point, I responded in a general way. I was not referring to YOU. So again, I am not sure why you have taken it personally.
Anyway, I must rush off to a meeting. My post may not be coherent as I have had to stop and start as I was interrupted a few times and I lost my train of thought inbetween.
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A couple of things. First, marriage was mentioned; why is it important? I think it ‘seals the deal.’ It says, ‘I really do love you, and I’m willing to sacrifice for you.’ Women and men need to believe that about each other, even though we really are trained in Western society to be self-sufficient, independent people, almost from the day we begin kindergarten.
Secondly, why are black women attractive, maybe more attractive? As a white male, I notice that white women seem a bit cold. Could be a deep-seated behavior that is subconscious. Let me preface this. Imagine yourself in a social setting, lots of other people around, a party, a game, a dance, etc. Niceties or small talk are too often treated as if the man is going to try to jump their bones right then and there. Black women, in social situations, seem more self-confident, on average, and more self-assured. They reciprocate pleasantries with more ease, I think. This appeals to ANY man who is just trying to have a pleasant time. And that is how anything, love, relationships, etc. begins.
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@Matt
@Demerera
You shouldn’t judge a man because he wants to date/ marry a woman from an another race. Wake up, it’s the 21th century…A high percent of White men date marry ladies from another race ( not only Black). It’s question of personal choice, not “the exclusion of his own race”, as you said
Let me say that when I make these statements Matt I am talking from personal experience though granted my personal perspective. I cannot tell anybody what to do – thats a given and nor would I want to immerse myself in someones life to the degree where I was instructing them on how to live their lives however… the point that I was raising concern’s about was ~ IF individuals seek partners to the exclusion of their own race and then go on to denigrate their own race – I may not have made that clear but that is what I mean.
If children are a product of such a relationship there can be significant and lasting repercussions on that child if one of the individuals in that partnership is suffering from ‘identity crisis’/’deep rooted issues’ – again, personal experience has shown me this can and does happen. This is the angle I am coming from when I make such comments.
I am NOT saying that people who date outside their race have no regard for their own race this would be a broad, sweeping, totally untrue and incorrect statment as many examples worldwide could demonstrate. Interracial couples were in relationships long before my time and i’m sure this will continue to go on long after I meet my maker 🙂
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@Bulanikgirl,
I will respond to your post later when I dont have a houseful of children running round, as you can see from my post above, it looks like one of the kids wrote it in haste 😉 Think I have disproved the theory that wome can multi task havent I lol.
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@Tyrone–
so, how can any self-respecting blackwoman reward the male offspring of the same men who’ve caused her and fellow blackwomen so much pain? What have whitemen done as a group of men to deserve the affection of any blackwoman, regardless of national origin?
I don’t believe that black men and black women BELONG to each other, so I’ll change a few words in what you said and say:
–so, how can any self-respecting (wealthy, rich, prominent, influential) black MEN reward the FEmale offspring of the same WOmen who’ve caused him and fellow blackMEN so much pain? What have whiteWOMEN done as a group of WOmen to deserve the affection of any blackMAN, regardless of national origin? Black men, whether they’re rich, poor, or in the middle around the world show everyday that whatever was done to them by whites through slavery or colonialism is forgiven and forgotten,
Even Cheikh Anta Diop, the focus of Abagond’s current post, married a white woman–if I’m not mistaken.
When I’m out with a white man, I’m not out with his group, I’m out with one man.
Since you asked this about white men, I’ll ask the same about black men: What have black men done as a group to deserve the affection of any blackwoman?
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@Bulanikgirl
Could some white men actually seek out Black women for their physical good looks but also their perceived inner beauty?
For sure, Hannu L seems like a good example of a WM that is discerning in terms of seeking inner beauty as well as his own perception of outer beauty in BW 🙂 He acknowledges that ‘inner beauty’ comes in many guises though is honest enough to say that he has a physical preference. I can understand that totally too. If that attraction isnt there, then it just aint happening for most people though we know that in terms of arranged marriages, that side of things can and does develop later when your spouses personality is revealed over time.
What I discovered was that everyone of them (men and women) told me this: some men want nothing more than a woman who has deep, spiritual values and has her heart set on home, husband and family. Women with these values come in all colours and nationalities – naturally – but among the women of some cultures and experiences, these coveted traits are more important and easier to find at that time and place. It is not just colour that matters, although the ‘carriers’ of these desirable inner traits might often be of a darker complexion.
When it comes to ‘settling down’ with a mate, most people want someone who shares their values and yes, women from the spectrum of colours and different nationalities can equally demonstrate the traits you talk of. To bring forth a cliche, the children really are the future and it is comforting and reassuring to feel that they are going to be brought up to become ‘whole’ individuals rather than being dragged up.
In terms of religion I think in some cases (in mine particularly) even if your partner doesnt share say the same religious values as you then its still workable as long as there is a respect and a regard for the person who does. This has never been an issue in our relationship and my hubby does ensure that he is educated enough to answer any questions the kids may have in my absence even though he doesnt follow a particular faith.
The Irish men I spoke with said that they and their friends had had English girlfriends, but specifically what they truly wanted was a woman – now these are their words and not mine – who –
*loved children and was very serious about motherhood,
*was adamant about their children’s education, discipline and spiritual values,
*kept an immaculately clean home and could cook,
*didn’t sit around all day smoking cigarettes,
*was god-fearing, and,
*put family and husband first as a life commitment.
They certainly did not want a servant or expect obedience from their woman – they just wanted a serious, dignified and self-respecting woman who wanted this kind of life and a man who needed more than sex, romance or serial dating.
Perhaps some women will aspire to all of these ideals but I think the reality is that whilst I know I had certain values/standards that I desired in men, when I met someone and the chemistry was there and we ‘clicked’ I became more interested in finding out what they were about and deciding whether it was something I could ‘get with’ and adpating/adjusting together accordingly. Much of what is listed by the Irish men above are traditional values and maybe they would be flexible if say, their wife wasnt a good cook (I would certainly hope so anyway, I can cook but I aint no Cordon Bleu chef 🙂 ). The others I would say are part of what is required when working towards a cohesive happy home and family life. Hopefully when you meet your ‘mate’ this is something that any co-dependent ‘unit’ would work towards naturally.
….Some of these men were especially attracted to “Irish” looks and accent, combined with the inner qualities already mentioned.
We also talked recently about seeing more and more Irish men in particular dating East Asian women. I am also seeing more and more occurences of this happening with English WM in my locality so I am surprised that many Irish guys are looking elsewhere when it could potentially be right on their doorstep so to speak. What do they term as ‘Irish’ looks Bulanikgirl – is there a particular look? I am not disputing that there is, I understand that thousands of years ago you could ‘gauge’ where in the world someone came from just from the look of them or other distinguishing features, all before colonialism I guess.
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@Maureen
Matt thinks he’s a pokemon master of Saffron City and we’re wild Pokemon.
All of this white/black nonsense is exhausting. Some men like women and vice versa. What race we all are shouldn’t matter as to why we like whoever. We like what we like. No one is going around questioning the reasons behind why we like Coke or Pepsi. So ridiculous.
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Actually that’s not exactly true. You see, human beings are not different animals, or even different breeds of animal. If humans were dogs, (genetically speaking) we’d all be be Labrador Retrievers (Black labs, Yellow labs, Chocolate labs) and submixtures thereof. In such a case, there is no “natural” tendency for Black Labradors to only mate with other Black Labradors. If you set them all free on an island to populate, you won’t come back to find the island neatly divided into 3 groups of dogs all in 3 distinct colors.
The divisions which you observe in the human species are primarily cultural, adaptive to geography and climate. We are not “different types.” Therefore, it is a natural for an Asian guy to like a Black woman as for a Black guy to like a Black woman, if you could remove the cultural and social biases.
True, but you culture is part of “who you are” to some degree too. And a Black guy may be just as guilty as thinking that he wants a Black woman because she is “more earthy” or “primal” or “natural”. A Black guy may think that his Black wife “has more soul” or can dance better, or has a better singing voice, just because she’s Black. He may even think that she’s more “motherly”, or “less uptight,” or is “not stuck up,” all because she’s Black.
Nobody ever seems to think that relationships based on Black on Black “internal fetishes” or racial generalizations are much of a problem, so why change the rules when it’s not a Black person with the fetish?
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@ Bulanikgirl
Like is attracted to like, [To a certain degree.]
But
All shorter people are not naturally attracted only to other shorter people.
All brunettes are not naturally attracted only to other brunettes.
All left-handed people are not naturally attracted only to other left-handed people.
All people with higher levels of melanin, and type 4 hair are not… etc. You see?
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@King, you are mixing apples and oranges when you compare race with a characteristic such as height, hair colour, etc.
I also beg to disagree with your assertion that humans are no different from animals save for socialisation, etc. As a physician and after spending years of study science and medicine, I believe there are huge difference and not just because of socialisation.
There are many studies (one published a few weeks ago) that found that kids as young as 2 years prefer to play with and gravitate towards other kids of the same race.
As with Demerara, I find this desire to stereotype, whether it favour us or not, unnessary and more harmful than anything. People should be judged on an individual basis. Besides, if someone says they are attracted to white people or black people, they are essentially saying they are attracted to the skin colour because white people do not all look alike, they do not have the same personalities or qualities. Same holds for black people. So, if someone is attracted to you because you are black, it means do not value you as an individual black person.
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@Bulangirl, can’t respond to all your post. I will address the first point re. sixth sense. You clearly said that you thought Matt was genuine. I sensed he isn’t. Hence my comment that your sixth sense tells you something different to what mine tells me. So, I am not making assumptions. So indeed, I am not interested in what you have not revealed. I am not interested in getting into your mind. I only commented on your expressed belief in the sincerity of Matt’s post.
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One small addition, the opposite of “natural” is “unnatural” neither is the opposite of normal always abnormal. It is natural for people of the same race to be attracted to each other. This point was raised because King described the attraction between people of the same race as being equally fetishised as those between people of different races. By the way, I do not subscribe to the view that attraction between people of different races is always based on some kind of fetish. Like I said before, this fetishising of a race of people does not sit well with me. I think people should be valued for who they are and not the colour of their skin. People should not look on one race of people and denigrate the other race. That has been the source of many of today’s problems.
… but each to his own.
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@ Maureen
And you certainly should have, had that been my assertion, but I was not saying that exactly. What I was doing was using the analogy of an animal (with distinct breeds) as a comparon to human, who do not have different breeds.
Humans are clearly different than lower animals, but that doesn’t mean that you can’t draw analogies, or use examples from animals to make a point more clear.
A two-year-old is socialized. They may not be socialized to the same degree as a teenager, but they have experience/observational socialization. Question: Did the test you mentioned control for environmental factors such as the child’s prior experience of having seen or been shown affection mostly by people who looked like themselves? Or did they ignore those factors?
Yes, if Mommy and Daddy look a certain way, and if most of the people in their young world, look a certain way—then, in an experiment, you suddenly drop in people who look different and new—a child just might be more inclined to go with what they know. But that would have nothing to to with their racial makeup, and everything to do with their environmental influences.
Was that controlled for?
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“you are mixing apples and oranges when you compare race with a characteristic such as height, hair colour, etc.”
Only because race is politicized and cultural while those other characteristics such as height are not. (for the most part) if you’re trying to make an argument that something is ‘natural” or not (as in genetically/biologically ingrained,) politics/culture should should not factor in because they are in constant flux. Specific cultural and political preferences are not biologically ingrained. (Unless you’re Tyrone.)
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Bearing in mind the subjects on this forum….
In my job, I communicate with another department who are not based in my office. I can’t explain it but I sense the guy that I talk to most frequently (on a professional level I might add 🙂 ) is ‘interested’ on some level. He is fully aware I am married and have children so I assume it is just genuine curiosity as to whom he is talking to.
Even though we havent met, we grew up in adjacent areas and I knew someone his age – I mentioned the guy to him who happens to be black and he confirmed knowing him.
We were speaking on the phone today and he mentioned something that came up on Facebook and I am linked to the same group (coincidentally) and I said that I would log on and check it out. He then said that he will look me up over the weekend and add me! I did point out to him that I use it primarily for keeping in touch with friends/family who do not live locally but this did not seem to deter him.
I wonder whether he will be surprised to discover I am black and whether this will affect whether he adds me or not. I have no preconceptions about who I talk to but unfortunately I am all to aware that others may have and often make assumptions. I will be interested to see if he is the same – there is no reason why he shouldnt be, just me musing to myself aloud.
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“It is natural for people of the same race to be attracted to each other.”
This is a racist statement. If you believe this than you believe that race is a biological reality. By that reasoning forced segregation and racial division of resources is perfectly reasonable as no racial group should be made to suffer “contamination” by another race.
You might want to go back to the drawing board on this one.
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““It is natural for people of the same race to be attracted to each other.”
actually this statement in itself is true, but the implication that it’s MORE natural for people of the same race to be attracted to one another and therefor somehow “unnatural” for people of different races….
is racist by definition.
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@ Bulanikgirl
Well it depends on what you mean by “like.” I suppose that any human being drawn to another human is “like to like.” (we are all that close genetically).
Now of course, you can always focus on the small differences, (and skin color is not more significant than any other physical characteristic.) but essentially, human beings are all “like.” We are ALL the same animal, and there is only one breed.
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@to quote Maureen if I may
As with Demerara, I find this desire to stereotype, whether it favour us or not, unnessary and more harmful than anything.
I do think it could prove detrimental to go simply for the perceived ‘ideal’ in terms of a mate, hence why I asked Matt why he was so driven to dating a BW. To pursue someone because you believe that they are going to have the attributes that you desire because you have heard this may prove disappointing to the individual and make them come away disillusioned. I totally understand that people would want to pursue someone that they find more physically attractive in whatever guise that may be but I was also trying to point out that what he desires in a woman may not be apparent in every BW he meets because we are all individual(s). It was meant to be a gentle word of caution 😕
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@ Bulanikgirl
Perhaps I’m wrong, Demerera, but I think many of us start off with some idea of what kind of life we would want and the kind of person and relationship that we would like to have that life with.
No Bulanikgirl I dont think you are wrong at all. I do think that we all have some idea of who we want and the life we want to have etc.
In Matt’s case, it seemed that he had not encountered many, if any BW in a social sense and I was merely commenting on the fact that if he expected all BW to be and I quote Matt here ‘It seems like Black ( especially the African) Ladies can be good wifes and mothers. ( which today can be hardly said about most of White woman)’ then he may be disappointed as not ALL black women fit the mould as far as this is concerned – neither do all females for that matter despite the fact that traditionaly women are seen as nurturers.
I was also genuinely curious as to what made him want a BW over WW particularly as he doesnt seem to have come into much personal contact with them.
I hope that explains it a bit better and that the italics/bolds actually bloomin work this time 🙂
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The picture on the commenting page shows how to do italics:
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@ ALL
I have read through a lot of comments on this site and many others like it never having commented before but the time has come to finally put my point accross and hopefully make people stop and think for a moment.
WE ARE ALL HUMAN, MILLIONS OF YEARS OF EVOLUTION HAVE DEVELOPED OUR BRAINS TO MAKE DECISIONS BASED ON THE WAY WE FEEL AND NOT NATURAL INSTINCT… YOU LIKE SOMEONE FOR WHO THEY ARE… COLOUR, CULTURE, RELIGION AND THE LIKES SHOULD NEVER COME INTO IT. IN RELATION TO THIS THREAD, WE ALL NEED TO TAKE A STEP BACK AND STOP DEBATING OVER WHO, WHAT AND WHY. WE ARE ATTRACTED TO PEOLPLE AND JUST ENJOY WHO WE ARE WITH OR HOPEFULLY MEET THAT SOMEONE SPECIAL!!!
Thanks for reading 🙂
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@Omnipresent:
Except that colour, culture and religion IS part of who someone is.
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@Maureen–
I also beg to disagree with your assertion that humans are no different from animals save for socialisation, etc. As a physician and after spending years of study science and medicine, I believe there are huge difference and not just because of socialisation.
You must also know that just because you believe something, it doesn’t make it a fact. Physicians and all the rest of us have biases and we tend to try to confirm our biases, so isn’t it possible that these huge differences that you are finding are a case of confirmation bias? Could you cite some of the huge differences?
No reputable non-racist scientist or scientific institution, to my knowledge, has been able to define race, so if these huge differences do exist between races, as you say, why haven’t they been reported in scientific journals? All the evidence that reputable scientists have discovered points to race as simply a political construct.
I wonder why people can’t just accept that and get on with life.
There are many studies (one published a few weeks ago) that found that kids as young as 2 years prefer to play with and gravitate towards other kids of the same race.
Citing this example as proof sounds like confirmation bias. Why not view this as simply due to familiarity? Most babies and young children gravitate to their moms, dads, and other familiar relatives, irrespective of the child’s and parents complexions or race.
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@Joriba, I was making the distinction between humans and animals and not between races. That comment was in response to King who suggested we are no different to animals save for socialisation, etc. However, if you are of the view that we are the same as animals then each to his own. I simply beg to disagree.
As to my biases as a physican; I would like to think that my years of experience, study and research count for something. I am black and have no interest or reason to denigrate my race in favour of another. Neither am I gullible in accepting any study just because another member of my profession says so. I would like to credit myself with more sense.
No these studies do not demonstrate confirmation bias. However, you are free to see it that way if you choose. Indeed human beings share a lot in common regardless of race, however marked outward and inward physical differences in races exist. For instance, different races are more susceptible to different illnesses and diseases. Some are only present in some races. Some races respond differently to different treatments.
Just this week, the profession was calling for an overhaul in the way research is done re. genome. At present the majority of participants have been of European descent. While many illnesses/diseases attack different races in different ways, there are some that are unique to other races. Furthermore, as I stated before, different races respond differently to some treatments. By focusing on Caucasians, other races are put at a huge disadvantage as medicine and treatments will be developed and designed to suit a certain group of people and may not be universal.
If you wish to think we are all the same physically inwardly and outwardly, then fine. I will not try to persuade you otherwise. As for me, I firmly believe, based on my experience, study, research and interaction with others within my profession and reading their studies and findings, that there are marked differences among races … and no, I do not simply read or subscribe to the views of those that are similar to mine.
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Well there jut a simple fact tho the people who think that interracial marriages formed by WM and BW can’t be serious.
Actually, at least in the USA, the divorce rate is the lowest in the countryin the case of couples formed by a White man and a Black women.
Just look around you…wherever you go in the western world you can see happy and satisfied Black ladies with their White husband with happy children.
You can ignore some statistics, but you can’t ignore what you see with your own eyes. So, please, just think again, before judge someone because of his choice.
Some people think we are still in Alabama or Mississipi of the 50’s of the 20th century. Come on, wake. It’ 2011.
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@Matt, I may be wrong (and I do not have the time to read through previous posts) but I thought you said you were somewhere in Eastern Europe. However, according to your last post, it sounds like you have travelled a lot around the Western world and you seem to have spent some time in the US. Am I correct?
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Maureen
Unfortunately I haven’t been in the USA yet. But it’s still my dream to live there.
Well, I was in Brazil once…you should see, how many race mixed people live there and there is no racial tensions. I’ve seen many and many white men married to Black ( or darker-skinned Coloured) Women and the society accepted it as a normal think. Unfortunately in most parts of Europe this kind of marriages it’s still not very accepted. Unfortunately I haven’t been in the uSA, but from the informations I have the sitution in this field in much better in the States than in Europe.
Actually most of the Black population in the States have White European ancestry. Race mixing always existed even in the States, but until the last 30 eyars, ut wasn’t accepted. While, for example, in Brazil it was accepted (and sometimes even “supported”) by the Portuguese colonizators.
I don’t agree either with White racists( style Tom Metzger and that kind of “White Natinalists” for example) , nor Black racists-separatists ( Black Panthers, Malcolm X, Ice-Cube, some members of NAACP etc) The truth is always somewhere in the middle. Just think about it, please.
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<
That’s not what I said.
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@Matt
Even porr White man, who is not even a British citizen ( but who is living and working legally in Britain) could have a chance with a decent Black woman ( for a serious relationship) in Britain?
Unfortunately in most parts of Europe this kind of marriages it’s still not very accepted
I see that you live in the UK Matt – Are you talking about Europe wide where you say that interracial marriages are not accepted or do you include the UK in that too? I would be surprised if you did say the UK as mixed relationships are quite widespread. Granted, that doesnt mean that everybody accepts them but then again we are not talking to the point where you would necessarily get hassled or beaten up for being with someone of a different race but again, there is always the exception I guess but I would say this was still extremely rare.
What you may encounter as a WM is other WM making derogatory comments about BP if they dont realise you are with a BW/interested in BW – my husband has experienced this and has been disappointed at the individuals, thinking that initially they were ‘OK’. Nevertheless he has quickly and effectively told them why what they have said is utter sh*te. I do feel for him, he has real faith in human nature and he is still shockable in terms of the fact that in this day and age people can have these narrow and stereotypical views.
Well there jut a simple fact tho the people who think that interracial marriages formed by WM and BW can’t be serious.
I wonder what would make them say that? I can see why this might be the situation that if in the majority of these cases their relationship didnt get past casual sex but marriage is a whole other thing. It sounds to me like the people who make those comments dont want to take the union of a WM and BW seriously fearing it will affect them in their lives somehow!
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@Maureen–
For instance, different races are more susceptible to different illnesses and diseases. Some are only present in some races. Some races respond differently to different treatments.
It would depend on the disease, wouldn’t it? The question is WHY are they more susceptible. Your argument is it’s because the patients are simply “black” or “white” when there are also myriad social, geographic, historical, and financial and other possible factors involved.
I would also like to know how precise are the findings. Is there any reputable scientist or institution who will stake their reputation on these findings. Do they mention specifically how much black blood a person has to have in order to be classified as “black” or “white.” I would say that no one knows for sure since there is no such thing as black and white. Scientists have said repeatedly that there is more variation within races than there is between the various races.
Just this week, the profession was calling for an overhaul in the way research is done re. genome. At present the majority of participants have been of European descent. While many illnesses/diseases attack different races in different ways,
If you read lots of journals, this overhaul has been called for for decades.
there are some that are unique to other races.
I asked for you to be specific, but the reason I don’t like these kinds of sweeping statements you’re making is because they mask the fact that these findings, if they pertain to differences at the DNA level, only can be applied to a tiny number of people considering the huge amounts of admixture among blacks in certain parts of the world. Yet, these blacks are still “black” according to the 1-drop rule. I’m assuming you’re using the 1-drop rule to define who is “black.”
I firmly believe, based on my experience, study, research and interaction with others within my profession and reading their studies and findings, that there are marked differences among races …
I’m talking about facts, not beliefs. I’m sure you realize that many white scientists and others are also biased, so if you’re reading the research of many biased people, this might be why you believe what you do. They too are using the 1-drop rule to define who is black. If much of this research were conducted in the blind where the scientists didn’t know whether the person was black or white, or where they thought the black person was white and the white person was black, the findings would be very different. This has been proven time after time.
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@ Maureen, Jorbia
“For instance, different races are more susceptible to different illnesses and diseases. Some are only present in some races. Some races respond differently to different treatments.”
That language is imprecise. It is usually not the case that different races are susceptible to different illnesses, it’s that different races have a STATISTICALLY greater risk of susceptibility to certain illnesses. In the VAST majority of cases, you will also find people of other races also are effected by these illnesses, but just at lower numbers.
This does nothing to establish the reality of race.
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I may not come back to check this post, but I accidently came across this site. I have to comment that I am a white man and I am married to a black woman for over 5 years now. I have dated many different types of women, more than half had been black, but my previous wife happened to be white. We have 4 kids (oldest from her previous marriage, 2 girls, 2 boys) now and we are completely happy, except for the normal money issues, we are quite content and I am happier than any women I have been with before. No issues to speak of as we get along so well which rubs off on our kids. In fact my Uncle is married to a black woman and has been for over 30 years, they are quite content also. Just wanted to pop my 2 cents in. Maybe I will come back to check this page if someone replies.
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Hi Jay and welcome 🙂
Its always heartening to hear of a happy relationship/family life in this day and age. In terms of finances money is that thing that can be the bane of any existence if you let it. I am still crossing my fingers for a lottery win – “please if you can hear me lord I dont want a lavish lifestyle just comfort for me and the family and a good legacy to leave for the next generations of family” 😉
Sometimes I never thought we would make it through the 5 year mark, then the 10 year mark and now we are looking at 16 years this year – and me a mere babe lolol. 😉
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Maureen…
I believe that the majority of scientists in the field of evolution, biology and anthropolgy agree that there is no human ‘race’. And yes, I do think we are animals with just some traits that most animals do not posess, epecially that of language. The concept of race is more and more pushed to the field of historians and sociologists.
I understand that it is easy for a lot of people see races based on physical, but not genetic differences.
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It is dangerous to say, ‘I want a particular person of such and such race because they are this, or I want a person of this other race because they are that.’ People, I have observed over and over, are a product of their environment. My siblings and I grew up in a rough neighborhood, but we had a rock-solid home.
It was pointed out much earlier in this thread that there is scientific evidence that seems to suggest that women tend to prefer mating with a member of the same race. In recent reading I did unrelated to this site, I learned that studies are now showing that men are more receptive to marriage and long-term relationships, and they are very open to dating women of different races, regardless of their own race. This tells me that it is now a matter of survival. Men are running out of options within their own races, and they may be looking to evolve out of rigid, set social mores that dictate what they should or shouldn’t do. This comment was made to me by a female friend, a white woman. She said she is sick of seeing white women riding their white husbands like slavedrivers, carping at them, nagging them, downing them. She said this, not me, and I will say again that I don’t personally think that all white women do this, but I have seen it happen. Maybe black woman are more diplomatic in this sense; in a macro sense, black woman are probably more skillful at cooperating and navigating diverse social situations. I think they move more effortlessly between worlds, the ‘dominant’ society of whites, and their own worlds. Men are looking for a quality woman, period, and it is not surprising that they may want to consider all their options for happiness. Having children is another matter, and I’d like to see data on the experiences of multiracial children. While their parents may be happy, how are they feeling about their own identities?
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And personally…
I had never heard before Abagond’s that bw were more family oriented and spiritual.
Personally, I am an atheist. What I know of bw in the US, i’m out of the game. Sorry, only scientific, secular women for me. You are too religious for me.
But what i’ve said before, I do find bw very beautiful. Beautiful faces, sexy bodies and warm eyes…
My ‘musts’: You cannot be intolerant (against gays and such), you must be curious about the past and the present, a critical thinker with an open mind to foreign cultures. Warm eyes to go along with a warm heart.
We all know we are attracted to some, vague physical charasteristics. It’s more than the sum of its parts. And yet, I know a guy who personally admitted to me that he rejected a perfect woman only because she didn’t have big tits.
But the whole attraction is a difficult thing to define. As of myself, I’ve been attracted to different women, but I think that warm eyes are the only common denominator.
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I don’t understand why people try to use general preferencies to justify your personal choices. I would never let anybody to dictate my choices, and I’ve been in a nightclub filled with blck dudes in Finland. With a blck woman. Music was great, but the populace concisted of bm and ww. Not a problem, since no one gave as anyy problems.
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Hannu L wrote: “I don’t understand why people try to use general preferencies to justify your personal choices. I would never let anybody to dictate my choices[.]”
Ditto.
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Abagond:
Why would whitemen want to deal with racial baggage that their white forefathers created? If I was a whiteman, would I want to deal with the anger of blackmen, whether they’re from the hood or burbs? Whitemen are sexually attracted to blackwomen, but they’re not naive to the fact that a lot of blackmen on this planet don’t like them. This is the crux of the issue, Point Blank!
Tyrone
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Tyrone,
the crux of the matter is actually that most Black women don’t particularly like white men. The question, therefore, is why would the masses of Black women want to deny the history of Black female/white male relationships in the US so as to be able to comfortably ‘fall in love’ with a symbolic rapist?
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1) the link between sex and rape is obvious
2) the link between the past and the present is obvious
3) the link between white men having sex with Black women and rape is obvious.
Why would a black w+man of women even question this?
Hmmmm
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Ah, yes, it is a competition. So, does this cut both ways then? If a black man has sex with a white woman, is that rape? There is no doubt that there is a lot of baggage there, and personally, my opinion is that this is a loaded issue for black men and black women. If it’s any consolation, people of all races are struggling with love and how to find it. It is sad, but we have became a world of haters, jealous of others who have what we desire. The good news is that the lives we KNOW are only temporal. It will be over soon enough. the question is, what’s next?
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I have had no problem dating interracially. Many black women in my opinion are not open to dating interracially and have a bad attitude towards men of other races. They still hold on to the myth of wanting the strong black mandingo. Even many black women who have the economic means hold out for dating only black men. Also a lot of white men can get penalized for dating a black women by white society. White society sees a white man admiring a black woman as threatening. Also in my opinion the biggest opposers to interracial dating are white women. Yes, it is okay for men of color to admire their beauty but it is not acceptable for white man to admire a woman of color’s beauty, particularly a black woman’s. Anyway, there are other races besides white men to date. I’d rater date a man of color anyway. Anyway black women need to stop being loyal to black men because at a marriage rate of 22% they are not being loyal to us.
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the crux of the matter is actually that most Black women don’t particularly like white men.
I hope white men reading this are smart enough to see through this childish tactic. You can’t read a black woman’s mind, so how do you know how many black women like white men? Black women lie to Black men all of the time about not being interested in White men so that you Black men won’t get angry. Not all, but plenty of Black women are interested in going out with white guys. You’re just trying to make white men stay away from Black women. Do you try to make Black men stay away from White women?
The question, therefore, is why would the masses of Black women want to deny the history of Black female/white male relationships in the US so as to be able to comfortably ‘fall in love’ with a symbolic rapist?
Black men did and do a lot of REAL raping of Black women in the past and present. Do you tell Black women to stay away from Black men?
When a black woman goes out with a white guy, she’s not going out with HISTORY. She’s going out with a white guy in the present. Are Black men denying the history of white female/black male relationships when they fall in love with and marry the symbolic accusers (white women) who got many innocent black men hanged?
Why would whitemen want to deal with racial baggage that their white forefathers created? If I was a whiteman, would I want to deal with the anger of blackmen, whether they’re from the hood or burbs?
This is just another pathetic attempt to keep white men away from black women. You have to just face it that lots more Black women are going to check out white men as lovers and husbands and some of them are going to fall in love with those guys and marry them.
Whitemen are sexually attracted to blackwomen, but they’re not naive to the fact that a lot of blackmen on this planet don’t like them. This is the crux of the issue, Point Blank!
Who cares what Black men don’t like? 22% of Black men married women who were not Black in 2008. Did they care about who didn’t like it? You can’t tell white men who not to marry. You need to tell more Black men to marry the mothers of their children, whether the mothers are white, black, or other.
You black men are just trying to hang onto your current surplus of single Black women.
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@Bulanikgirl, statistically, if Black women now outnumber Black men in the US, then it would seem that women dating outside their race would be a natural consequence. We also live in a world where people are mobile and cross cultural lines more often. In the field of education, I have met more Black women and interacted with them on a more personal level than in previous work, and this is probably the case for many people who are living life on their own terms. I am not a sociologist, but there seems to be a tendency on the part of some people to cling more tightly to superficial things to define them, rather than moving in new directions. As a high school teacher, I will not say all, but many young Black men are afraid to move outside the box that defines them. What’s sad is, those definitions have come from without, and not from within. Peer pressure, social pressure, etc. can sometimes be stronger than one’s own will.
It’s sad to even think that a person should remain alone if they cannot find a man of their own race, and I think you’re right, there are men who feel this way about the women of their race, Black, White, Asian, Hispanic, etc. It is about control and power.
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Good points, Jorbia. How can anyone claim to speak for all Black women, like they interviewed every last woman out there to confirm that they feel the way that one person does? That would be like someone saying that because I’m a White male, I vote straight Republican and support the Tea Party, and they don’t even know me personally. I shudder at the thought! I think what it is, some people identify themselves as a Black man first, or a White man first, or a Latina woman first, just examples, and that causes them to see EVERYTHING through an ethnic/racial prism. It seems bizarre to me, in this day and age, with all the intermarriage that has gone on for the last 50, 60, 70 years, that someone would still say that people should only date and/or marry people of their own race. Isn’t it like battling a flood with a bucket, to stop people from dating across ethnic lines, because people are going to do what makes them happy. Are people so insecure and sad, my gosh, that they are going to sit on the sidelines and broadside every person who doesn’t fit THEIR stereotypes, or doesn’t live life the way THEY see fit? How sad!
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Wow, the discussion has moved on since I last signed on.
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@Melenik Charles:
Since when were you appointed as the advocate of ‘most’ bw? Have you conducted an extensive study of how most bw feel?
And why would you even care? Sorry, bro, but in my eyes you seem so much more less of a man, if it really bothers you that much. Why do you care? People are individuals and make inividual decisions. You cannot control everybody, not even majority, not even beyound one or two individuals.
Me as a wm, would be immenslely offended by even the suggestion that I am responsible for the rape of bw of bygone era or today ( besides, I’m pretty convinced that most bw were raped by bm).
It just makes no sense. Just admit it, bw dating wm is you personal problem. I would say more, but I don’t want to be evicted from here.
Even though I really like the way bw women look, the interior matters more than the exterior. I’m still attracted to women of all races. And I will never let a bm such as Menelik to dictate who I should like.
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Bulkingirl,
I seriously wish people like you would marry some minor Italian Count and pee off to Italy and forgot all about MY race!
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Bulanikgirk, Hannu, Jorbia, and truthonly,
EXCELLENT responses to MC and and any other ANTI-BW BM who has the nerve to think they can “DICTATE” who BW should/shouldn’t love/date/marry.
ANTI-BW BM can take their SEXIST/SELF SERVING BS and shove it.
BW can love/date/ marry whomever THEY PLEASE and we DON’T NEED “PERMISSION” from ANYONE.
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@Menelik Charles
I assure you that most europeans give two s**ts about who a mediterrian prince marries. And for your information, Monaco is concidered more French than Italian, especially since it’s recided on the French mediterrian cost. I know, I’ve travelled the coast by train. Besides, they followed French rule. It would be nice if you bothered to do your homework.
Just why it shrinks your p***s is beyound me.
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Sister,
you really are quite deluded aren’t you? Seriously, if I could dictate who you loved, it most certainly wouldn’t be Black men lol My theory is, the sooner people like you date and marry out the better things will be for all parties concerned!
I have absolutely no desire to prevent you from dating, mating or marry anyone who isn’t Black!
It must be dreadful for people like you that we actually have a history in which mothers, grandmothers, aunts etc tried to dictate who their male relatives dated, married etc, right? The Romeo and Juliet of America is the Black man and white woman not the white male rapist (who especially tried to dictate who Black men and white women loved!) and his institutionally-socialised Black female rape victim!
Trying to flip the scrip (and thus denying your own dreadful history) by nominally empowering Black men (most of whom come from female-dominated backgrounds) to prevent “strong, independent (of Black men) Black women” from dating who the freakin hell they please, is an act of gross dishonesty and insult!
Seriously, I wish people like you would assimilate into the white race and leave my people alone to sort their own issues out with self-loathers such as yourself constantly repeating the same nonsense about “ANTI-BW BM” this and that.
Just get a freakin life and stop harassing people!
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@Menelik Charles:
You don’t sound like a strong, independent bm… On the contrary, a weak, dependant dude who tries to impose his weaknesses upon strong, independent bw!
But since you are a weak, dependent man, you do not respond to me, a strong, independent MAN!
The moment you come up with a rational, scientific proof, I shall listen to you.
But because you cannot, you will c**p your pants instead. And harass the more openminded women here. And it makes you crazy that you cannot command them.
Tired of you.
Challenge me.
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Are black women really concerned about what some ugly deranged white men think of us? I mean really folks. Their own f-ckin women don’t want them. Why else is the white birth rate so low? The only women who want them are some stupid dumb mail order Asian broads who worship the ground white men doo doo on.
No self-respectin sista is sweatin their smelly azzes. F-ck them ( or should I say unf-ck them). I could care less about what their serial killer butts think of me and those lopsided toupees they have to start wearing on their bald heads at 25.
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Looooool I would never have put it like that looool
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My theory is, the sooner people like you date and marry out the better things will be for all parties concerned!
I have absolutely no desire to prevent you from dating, mating or marry anyone who isn’t Black!
Tsk! Tsk! You desire very much to keep Black women chained to Black men. That’s why you keep ranting. Your jealousy and powerlessness to stop us are obvious and pathetic. Get ready to rant and be jealous for a long time because Black women will be choosing White men as lovers and husbands more and more for the rest of your life. No matter how much you may try to downgrade White men, we’re not crazy. We know that some White men are great guys. Face it. Black men can’t stop us from being with whoever we want. More and more of us will be loving and dating out. Black men don’t own Black women, just like Black women don’t own Black men.
Do you try to stop Black men from being with White women?
Are black women really concerned about what some ugly deranged white men think of us? I mean really folks. Their own f-ckin women don’t want them.
I see some “ugly deranged” men everyday of EVERY group. Why try to downgrade men of that kind of just one group? You’re sounding like a Menelik groupie.
For more and more educated Black women and Asian women, White men are obviously just fine. If White men were undesirable, you wouldn’t be so scared that Black women would want to be with them.
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I agree i am an oreo, but before when i was even predominintly black, i thought tht Orlando Bloom HAD to be the sexiest guy alive. I had to do a project on the KKK, nd after tht i thought NO white guy wuld ever think about even looking a black girls way, ut now i see a black girl with a white guy everywere i look, nd i think humanity is finaly catching up to mondern times.
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I am mixed (White, Asian and Hispanic). I am attracted to all different types of women. But I have dated more Black women than any other race. Why? For a lot of reasons. I grew up in a predominantly Black neighborhood in the Bay Area in San Francisco. I also like women who are more curvaceous and the average Black woman is curvier than women of other races.
However, I have found that it can be difficult to get Black women to date men outside of their race. I remember two years ago, I collected over 20 phone numbers from different women over a six month period. The vast majority of those numbers were Black women because I currently live in the DC Area in which Whites and Hispanics completely socially segregate themselves at a level even moreso than Blacks. Anyway, out of those 20 or so numbers, only one of the women, who happened to be Black, picked up the phone and agreed to go out on dates with me.
Also, it can be straight up dangerous for many White men to be with Black women because many mentally unstable fools in our backwards society refuse to accept this union. Many Black women have big brothers who will beat the sh*t out of their sister’s White boyfriends. Even if her family is cool, they will have a hard time going out in public sometimes, especially if the Black woman is deemed to be highly attractive. It isn’t as hard for me to go out with Black women as the average White dude because I’m a minority and I’m mixed and racially ambiguous and haven’t lived on the all-White side of the tracks in Beverly Hills my whole life.
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“The Columbia study meanwhile found that while men are dogs…”
way to show your bias right here. this why you aren’t being taken seriously: you are a perpetrator of the very crime you angry about being committed. i’m a black man, and i have friends who are also black who have this strange idea that black people cannot be racist. i have a sinking feeling that you are also one of these people. distrusting whites because of the slave trade seems a bit racist to me. i have never had a problem with white people, with the exception of one old geezer in a store in alabama. this seems to be the exception, not the rule when acting with not only white people but people of other races in general. the fact that you are grouping all white men (and black women, as i know several black women who would laugh at that statement) as wanting one singular thing is laughable. why is there a discrepancy in the rate of blackwomen-whitemen marriages? i have no idea, but i’ve heard multiple times both parties have admitted to just not being that attracted to the other and when we rank preference in terms of race, black women rate white men lower and white men rank black women lower. i think it just has to do with some sort of genetic attraction, as no one in the conversations is the least bit racist; they just simply aren’t attracted to the other group. both have plenty of friends in the other group, just not many significant others.
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So… There are human beings who have a genetic resistance to attraction to members of another specific ethnicity, even though we’re all members of the same race and the same “breed?” Maybe Turks had a genetic anger towards Armenians?
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look i’m not a geneticist nor claim to be. i also never said anything about “genetic anger” either; that idea is simply twisting my words. this is my own personal theory. no one states (that i know at least) that this is because of any perceived racial tensions between the two groups, they simply acknowledge a lack of attraction. this seems to be more common than statistically probable, as is shown by the data she cited about the marriage discrepancy. regardless, criticizing my personal opinion is a strawman fallacy, and not the point. i personally have no idea why; if i or anyone else knew for sure this debate wouldn’t even be happening. what do you think about the rest of what i wrote?
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I think that western society and ideals have turned these two groups away from each other the most. Personally, I don’t think it’s that black women and white men aren’t actually attracted to each other, it’s more that society and stereotypes have made it an afterthought. Most of the black women and white men I have talked to said that they didn’t find each other attractive because of a) stereotypes and b) they didn’t think that the other one would find them attractive, especially b.
As human beings, we aren’t born to be attracted and not be attracted to certain groups. We grow into that from our society and environment.
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@ a black man
The point is that such statistics are far more likely to the the result of cultural forces rather than genetic mutations. Genetic non-attraction is about as likely as “genetic anger’ causing the Armenian genocide.
As for having trouble with Whites, I think it has a lot to do with what area you live in, and the circles you run in. It is entirely possible to still have very bad relations with whites, if you’re in a area where that is the rule. But the reverse is also possible, of course.
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a black man,
no one states (that i know at least) that this is because of any perceived racial tensions between the two groups, they simply acknowledge a lack of attraction.
The fact they report a lack of attraction doesn’t mean it’s rooted in biology. Quite the contrary.
In essence, it’s the old problem of nature vs nurture, and with humans, nurture is very strong. It governs even the biological things, let alone cultural. And attraction, no matter how spontaneous and natural it seems, is, in large part, culturally constructed. Plus, race is not a biological fact, so it wouldn’t make sense for this attraction (or lack thereof) to be biological.
In short, culture makes us attracted to certain features/people. There IS, I guess, a biological component in attraction (the whole thing about pheromones and stuff), but what makes (certain) white men and black women not attracted to each other is not biological, it’s cultural. Not all black women or white women are the same; you can always find a biologically compatible person (if that thing existed in the first place) in every single group. So no, biology is not an excuse or an explanation here, just like it isn’t in most of the things that deal with race.
what do you think about the rest of what i wrote?
What, about blacks being racist? I do think you don’t have to be white to be racist. And that past is not an excuse to one’s person racism or any other form of hate.
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@Me!* The Royal Prince of Monaco is married to a black woman and now they have son.
The Prince of Monaco is not married to a black woman and never was. He married a WHITE South African. He fathered illegitimate children, one with a black woman.
“LEFT HIS WIFE” IS A STRONG PHRASE .These men did not leave their wives for black women. Many of these men met the black women long after they divorced their wives.
PS. The Russian billionnaire did not leave his wife for Naomie Campbell. He’s still married.
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I think that perhaps Me! had her confused with Princess Angela, of Liechtenstein who is wed to Maximilian.
They do make a rather handsome couple, don’t they?
As for Vladislav Doronin and Naomie Campbell, I suppose that since he’s still technically married to his wife, that if He and Naomi get married, then you will have an example of a Russian billionaire “leaving his wife” for a Black woman—not that I can say that I approve of such things.
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In regards to race and attraction, the majority of black women I have had these types of discussions with, or overheard, have cited physical rather than cultural reasons why they were not attracted to white men. Same with Asians. Most of the black women say they mostly find black and Latino men attractive. Of course, with blog entries like this getting so many hits and comments, maybe many black women secretly like white men, but just can’t get any to approach them.
p.s. sorry 4 the bad grammar. Too lazy to edit
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The Cynic,
the majority of black women I have had these types of discussions with, or overheard, have cited physical rather than cultural reasons why they were not attracted to white men.
I did mean on physical attraction, not cultural reasons. Physical attraction isn’t “natural” and spontaneous as people think. It’s culturally constructed. We are taught what to like and consider attractive. This was proven many times. It’s not surprise that many people who were raised surrounded by people of a phenotype different than their own often prefer that phenotype and not their own. It’s not surprising that white ideals of beauty dictate what black men like, even if they date black women. Similarly, if you grow up surrounded with people of your race, and you’re unfamiliar with people of other races, you might not find them attractive. None of it is natural.
Attraction is a learned behaviour. I am not saying it’s completely cultural/learned, because there is a biological component, I guess. But in large part, it IS learned and constructed.
And yes, I am talking about physical attraction.
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@Mira
My bad. I thought about directing my comment to someone, but I was more-so giving my input into the conversation btwn ‘A black man’ and King. This led me to simply leave a comment directed at no one.
“Physical attraction isn’t “natural” and spontaneous as people think. It’s culturally constructed.”
-I agree with this, although I believe biological influences play a role in attraction also. Or at least that is what I have been taught. I was not attempting to make any genetic arguments. When I say culture I was speaking about values, music, beliefs, etc. and not cultural perceptions of beauty. I honestly don’t know why many of those black women found White and Asian men less attractive than Latinos and Blacks.
“But in large part, it IS learned and constructed.”
-Well I am not too sure about how much nature or nurture plays a role in physical attraction, but if I had to guess I would say it is mostly genetic
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Is somebody seriously suggesting that genes dictate what race we are attracted to? I’m willing to bet hundred bucks you cannot find a reliable scientific study to support that theory. If it was true, there would be no mixed-race relationships! Preferencies are a cultural phenomenon, something we were taught.
What I know of biology, most people are attracted to pheronomes that are secreted by people who have a different immune system than yours. So, biologically people are attracted to people, who with you would produce offspring with the most efficent immunology, to enable your kids to have the widest protection to different bacteria and viruses.
So mixed marriages should produce stronger offspring.
So many people seem to confuse their own cultural preferencies and feeble anecdotal evidence with scientific facts.
Beauty and attraction is skin deep. I’m attracted to who I am attracted to, and I’ll never let anybody to dictate who I should love. The longest retionship I had was with a stereotypical scandinvian blond. Biggest mistake of my life.
And of course blacs can be as racist as any ethnicity, I have enough proof of it on this blog alone
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At least offspring with stronger (more robust) immunology.
Of course. It would be illogical to assume Blacks to be superhuman.
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Yes, King. That’s what I meant. Thanks for your clarification.
Excuse me for a while, I need to go wield my Thor’s hammer. Even us uberhumans need to exercise. 😛
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The Cynic,
I believe biological influences play a role in attraction also. Or at least that is what I have been taught. I was not attempting to make any genetic arguments.
Oh, I do think biology plays a role in attraction. I just don’t think it has anything to do with race. After all, race isn’t biological. So, someone’s attraction towards an individual is partly natural, but nobody is biologically attracted to a certain race (in general) and not attracted to another race (in general). After all, not all people of a certain race are the same; therefore, not being attracted to a certain race is a cultural thing. You (general you) might or might not be attracted to a certain individual, but to say you’re not attracted to whole race of people makes no sense, biologically speaking.
When I say culture I was speaking about values, music, beliefs, etc. and not cultural perceptions of beauty. I honestly don’t know why many of those black women found White and Asian men less attractive than Latinos and Blacks.
Well, those cultural things (style, music, beliefs, mannerisms) are yet another story. They are often impossible to separate than the basic physical attraction. For example, if you’re into rock music (like I am) you might like guys who are into rock music, and who dress in a certain way, etc. Now, in America people expect this type of guys to be white, but I know plenty of black (or non-white) guys who are into this style. But certain styles are more popular with one race than the other, and that might play an important role in attraction.
Still, basic physical attraction is not about this. And I do know there are people who honestly say they aren’t physically attracted to people of a certain race. And I say it’s not biological, but cultural. 😛
Well I am not too sure about how much nature or nurture plays a role in physical attraction, but if I had to guess I would say it is mostly genetic
It is impossible to tell. That’s what studies indicate> that is, in most of the cases, impossible to determine what part of human behaviour is natural, and what part is cultural. But it’s clear that almost all of the things related to humans are, at least in part, cultural, even the most basic, most natural things (such as: eating, urinating, having sex) are affected by culture.
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no problem! We Blacks have MC Hammer.
Please don’t force me to wield him!
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King!
I can’t Touch That! (but I did dance my pasty-white, skinny ass to that tune back in the day!)
But I was also ice-ice baby!
And I really loved house! And yes, I’m old, so please, take me to oooood skool: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVQnLmKFeLY&feature=youtube_gdata_player
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Jess says,
I think that western society and ideals have turned these two groups away from each other the most. Personally, I don’t think it’s that black women and white men aren’t actually attracted to each other, it’s more that society and stereotypes have made it an afterthought. Most of the black women and white men I have talked to said that they didn’t find each other attractive because of a) stereotypes and b) they didn’t think that the other one would find them attractive, especially b.
As human beings, we aren’t born to be attracted and not be attracted to certain groups. We grow into that from our society and environment.
laromana says,
You are right on point. My first hand experience as a BW in America is that American men are brainwashed to be A–h—s to BW and MOST CHOOSE to buy into ANTI-BW brainwashing while SOME CHOOSE to reject it.
Sadly, the American men who CHOOSE to buy into ANTI-BW brainwashing also believe it’s “genetic/biological” for them to have a “preference/attraction” for every race of women BUT BW.
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@ Hanu HAhA!!!
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Laromana:
You should come to Europe…
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Hannu,
You think Europeans are better in this aspect?
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@Mira
So, someone’s attraction towards an individual is partly natural, but nobody is biologically attracted to a certain race (in general) and not attracted to another race (in general).
-I thought I made it clear that I was not trying to make this argument. Once again, I have no idea why those black women were more attracted to Black and Latino men. I didn’t even mention anything about genes in my first comment, so idk where all of this talk about biology is coming from.
That being said, I believe that it is totally possible for genetics to influence what physical features humans find attractive and for those features to correlate with socially constructed categories of race/ethnicity. Race doesn’t need to be a biological reality for people to find certain physical features(common in certain races/ethnic groups) more attractive than others.
They are often impossible to separate than the basic physical attraction.
-I am strictly speaking about physical features.
The Cynic:“Well I am not too sure about how much nature or nurture plays a role in physical attraction, but if I had to guess I would say it is mostly genetic.”
Mira: “It is impossible to tell.”
-This is why I said my best guess. You were the one who initially declared physical attraction is mostly cultural.
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I think that was the original premise from a black man
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The Cynic,
I wasn’t attacking you or your previous comments; we (as in, everybody involved in this thread at the moment) are talking about nature vs nurture and attraction. I was just trying to make myself clear.
This is why I said my best guess. You were the one who initially declared physical attraction is mostly cultural.
I do believe is mostly cultural. But we can’t know for sure, that’s the problem. It’s impossible to measure and research this stuff, because it’s impossible to find a human in his/her natural state, unaffected by the culture.
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And I really loved house! And yes, I’m old, so please, take me to oooood skool: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVQnLmKFeLY&feature=youtube_gdata_player
OMG Hannu. Old School Chooooooon!!!! Danny D & D Mob, Cathy Dennis from the album ‘A little bit of this’. Leading up to a definitive time in my teens – the Summer of Love 🙂
I was still at school and lovin the explosion of House/Garage/Hip Hop (particularly De La Soul ‘The Daisy Age’ – Three Feet High and Rising)
Remember this one? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaLEpc0lBJU
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@Hannu L…… And while I’m at it, a few more for ya……
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I can’t quite work out why black women are lamenting over the question of why white men do not find them attractive or why white men do not marry them. Do white men lament over why black women might not find them attractive? Do they have such forums stressing over this question? No!
Also, why do we not see the same sort of lamentations over why Chinese or Indian men do marry black women?
Whether we like it or not, most white men do not find black women attractive. Be it nature or nuture, that is how it is (besides I find it ludicrous to claim that it is all nuture). Why are black women so concerned about it? Why does it hurt them so much?
Whilst we are all part of the human race and we have genes that set us apart from each other – genes that lead to us having distinct races. Like attracts like. We share a lot of our genes with monkeys but I very much doubt monkeys feel any attraction to us. Why, because that little bit of genetic difference will have an effect. Both sides of the debate can call up various studies to back up their nuture versus nature arguments.
In the end, the situation is as it is. Most white men will marry white women. Some white men will marry black women. Those involved are adults – their lives to lead and if they do not find white or black or yellow attractive leave them to it. They need not justify their taste.
Still I must ask; to what point this endless debate about why white prefer their white sisters to black women. Why does it bother black women? Why?
Black women get on with your lives. Find love in whatever shape or form or colour. Stop hankering after the love and attention from men of the white race.
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@ Maureen
If you go over to the “Black women that white men like” post, you’ll find many comments from White guys stressing over that very question. You’ll also find White man asking the same question on interracial dating sites, Yahoo questions, and the like.
One reason may be because in the US, Whites are the majority ethnicity. Chinese or Indians represent such a small percentage of the U.S. population that it’s less of a focus.
Our genes lead us to have relatively insignificant phenotypical differences in appearance, which we have culturally defined as different “races.” But the differences are much more cultural, than biological. As for chimpanzees, the truth is that the majority of DNA for all living things shares many commonalities because that’s how the “code” for life is written. But clearly Chimpanzees and Human Beings are genetically different species. Any comparisons between cross-species attraction, and same-species attraction, are moot.
In fact biology abhors the sequestering of particular genetics, and rewards genetic diversity. As a rule, the greater the genetic mixture in an individual, the greater his chances of surviving disease or adverse genetic mutations.
If that were really true, than we’d all be marrying our siblings and cousins.
I think the question is asked because the figures for White men marrying other non-White women, is much higher, as are Black men’s figures for marrying non-Black women. It seems that there has been an historic tension between White Men and Black women specifically. If the rift was truly biological, then you’d expect the same reaction to their Black male counterparts.Therefore it seems to be mostly a cultural prejudice (on both sides) and therefore worth investigating.
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Thanks for the invite Hannu.
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@ Maureen
I can’t quite work out why black women are lamenting over the question of why white men do not find them attractive or why white men do not marry them.
Neither can I Maureen and had put a similar post on the ‘Black women that white men like’ forum stating just this.
Still I must ask; to what point this endless debate about why white prefer their white sisters to black women. Why does it bother black women? Why?
Black women get on with your lives. Find love in whatever shape or form or colour. Stop hankering after the love and attention from men of the white race.
I agree. Worryingly, I still see people wittingly/unwittingly buying in to these stereotypes i.e. ‘I like the curves of a BW and blah blah blah’ and ‘WM love my breasts, petiteness/buxomness etc etc’ and occasionally I am shocked at the seeming need for acceptance. On here, I dont often see posts from BW ‘Desperately Seeking WM’ but of the ones that I have seen, in particular on other forums, I do feel sadened and frustrated that for some BW, WM are the be all and end all.
Think I’m a bit of a romantic and wish everyone to find happiness and love in whatever guise it comes in. Anyone who choses a mate specifically based on race is being short sighted and is potentially missing out IMO.
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Hey there Bulanik – how you doing? 🙂
I know that the interest can and does go both ways but on the website link below, I think you will see what I am talking about.
http://www.interracialdatingcentral.com/fyooz/why-white-men-love-the-black-woman/comment-page-130/#comment-36872
With some, the desperation is so acutely palpable that I have often felt saddened by this yearning for some BW to meet WM almost as if its an answer to their prayers. I urge women like this not to desire a man JUST because of his race but to be open to delving deeper into the content of their hearts.
Due to my own cirucumstances I must come across as a contradition in terms lol. I am in NO WAY a detractor of ‘mixed’ relationships. I think my own situation is testimony to that – we like who we like, we fancy who we fancy and we love who we love.
The only thing that I can liken it to Bulanik is my youth when I lusted 🙂 after ‘latin looking’ guys or my idea of a Ralph Tresvant look-a-like and NOTHING in between would do. As a result I wasted a lot of time ‘chasing a dream’ cos I revered these type of guys so much that deep down I felt that they were too good for me which sometimes they knew and exploited. The kind of guys that were interested in me I didnt deign to to indulge. I must have had an epiphany at some stage in life cos I realised that everything that glittered in my blinkered world did not fulfil my expectations and though I cant say overnight I realised this, I have learned to always respond to the way I am being treated regardless.
In its purest and simplest form Love is beautiful/wonderful/magnificent but I think it is best to be open in all aspects to meet that kindred spirit.
Hope that makes sense – probably reads a little cliched but thats really it.
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@Bulanik
BTW, you still living in the Emerald Isle? Hope all is going well????
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My experience is otherwise. I see far too many black women stressing over lack of attention from white men. Indeed, black women are terribly disadvantage in the relationship game. Black women are disproportionately represented in the single parent household population. The black men do not stick around and a lot of the black men turn to white women.
I totally understand the challenges we face. What I cannot sympathise with is the desperation and obsession with “why do white men not fancy us”. Truly there are white men, chinese men, etc who wonder why black women do not seem interested in them. However, these are few and far between and do not parallel the prevalence and intensity of this concern amongst black women.
The problem is (and I have witnessed it) black women find themselves in relationships with less than desirable white men. I know some white men who will make a play for a black women on the belief that “well they hardly have a lot of choices”. There are a lot of white men who are well aware of the fact that black women are often single (single mothers) and seemingly less favoured by black and white men vis-a-vis white women.
Black women need to forget about all this “why do white men not fancy black women” and just live life to its fullest. Love will come along. It can come in all shapes and sizes and colours.
This question occupies far too much of black women’s time. I have seen TV programmes, magazine articles, debates, blogs, and on an on. Every single year.
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Please define “a lot?”
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@ King – according to stats, approx 50% of black men (mainly West Indians) are in relationships with white women. That is not even accounting for the numbers in relationships with chinese, indians, etc.
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WHAT!!??? That sounds insanely high!
According to 2010 Census figures
“10.8% of married Black American men had a non-Black spouse.”
In other words, 89.2% of Black men do not marry a non-Black spouse.
“8.5% of married Black men and 3.9% of married Black women had a White spouse.
So, that means that 91.5% of Black men do NOT marry White women
(figures from U.S. Census Bureau 2010)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interracial_marriage_in_the_United_States#Census_Bureau_statistics
By extrapolation, that doesn’t sound like anywhere near half of all Black men are dating White women, does it?
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@King, insanely high but true (particularly amongst West Indian men as I said). Hard to believe but unfortunately true. Very evident too as you walk around. I think there was also a survey done some years back that predicted that mixed race kids will soon over take the number of 100% black kids being born (or something like that). Can’t remember exactly but it was something about the phenomenal rise in the number of mix race kids.
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Our ONS (National Statistics) have quite a bit of info – no research needed. This is our official stats. However, they mainly cover marriages. There is a lot more of these relationships that do not enter the marriage status.
I live in London where mixed relationships are as common as muck and there is no way nearly 4 out of 10 British-born black women are with white men.
See 21 March report. Page 4. http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/search/index.html?pageSize=50&newquery=inter-ethnic+marriages
The Voice (a black newspaper) had done some work on this in the past. I think they quoted a near 50% amongst black West Indian men. However, I think the ONS report should give a feel for the comparisons.
King, I am sure you understand that most who speak about the prevalence of black men, white women relationships are speaking in terms of “relative” not “absolute2. No one is claiming that ONLy black males are with white partners in the UK. That would be a ludicrous claim.
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@King I should add that marriages are rare in the UK lol! I think in the US marriages are much more common than in the UK (well, that is my impression). So the ONS figures should be interpreted in that light. So many black men are in relationships with white women that never progress to marriage.
I do not know how the figures stack up in the USA but in the UK, single black female household is a common, common thing. African men are more likely to be married to a black (African) woman. Black West Indian/black British men? Not from what I see.
I am seeing more and more black women and white men relationships but they are no where near as prevalent as black men, white women. Personally, I think it is disgraceful that so many black men demonstrate such a strong preference for white women. I have heard all sorts of reasons why this appears to be the case. All of them rather sad.
Nevertheless, when all is said and done, I simply do not understand black women’s obsession with this “why white men are not marrying black women” business. Why this need for the attention from white men. Why this need to feel valued by white men. Some of us seem to be on a quest to prove that “some white men do find black women attractive”. This is very interesting!
Both black men and black women should live and let live. Love yourself and your own people. Stop looking for validation from white women/men. Embrace love in whatever shape, size, or colour.
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Marriage is often seen as a strong indicator of “commitment”. Moreover, I would suggest that official stats on inter-racial marriages (not just stuff off from a discussion forum) is a better basis for extrapolation.
The title of this thread is about marriage. Why so few white men marry black women. I guess, the question was seeking to take it to a deeper level – why so few white men make the ultimate commitment to black women?
Perhaps in other parts of the UK, black women/white men relationships are quite common – nearly 4 out of 10. However, in London, no way is that the case. If I can go just by involvement with patients, I would say it would be more like 1 in 10 for black women/white men and nearly 5 out of 10 for black men/white women. For the latter, there has been a marked increased in the number of black men/white Eastern European women relationships.
Certainly, if black women/white men relationships are as common as nearly 4 in 10, then we would not be having this discussion. Such forums re. “why so few white men marry black women” or “why so few white men date black women” would be non-existence. You certainly do not see black men lamenting over why so few white women fancy them.
Black women/white men relationships are not rare. However, they pale in comparison to the number of black men/white women.
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@ Maureen
I’m afraid I’m going to have to ask you for a hard source for that high figure. I have never seen any figure that comes anywhere close to it.
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@ Bulanik/Maureen
Wikipedia says this, based on the 2001 UK Census (2011 Census currently in progress?)
“According to the UK 2001 census, black British males were around 50% more likely than black females to marry outside their race. British Chinese women (30%) were twice as likely as their male counterparts (15%) to marry someone from a different ethnic group. As of 2001, 2% of all marriages in the United Kingdom are inter-ethnic.[158] ”
It’s seems that Black males were 50% more likely to marry interracially than Black females, but the overall interracial marriage rate is still VERY low at only 2% of all marriages.
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@ Maureen
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@ Maureen
Yes, I think that would be natural based on the construct of the Black racial stereotype in the West.
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@ Bulanik
I suppose it depends on his motivations.
All professions of love should be met with scrutiny and doubt. This is the strainer that separates the gold from the dross. True love welcomes scrutiny because the more deeply you examine it the more sure you are of it, and doubt can be endured if it leads, at last, to certainty.
How the other sex values us will always be a part of our personal validation – but it can certainly be overdone, and overemphasized. It is true both of men and women. Why do you think we men do most of the things we do? To impress women!
That has been my experience as well, for the most part.
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I’ve found the same thing when dealing with Eastern European women and even Russians. Most of the people who I’ve met quite honestly have experienced much more financial deprivation than Blacks have in past decades in the West. The ones that I’ve met don’t seem to come across as superior, or entitled, and seem much more understanding of other people who have been deprived, or have had to struggle. Obviously, that can’t be applied in every single case, but it reflects my general experience with them.
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^ And conflict. You never truly know a person until you fight them 🙂
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But as for Black/White couples. I doubt if it will ever get to a place where EVERYBODY is dating a person from another race/culture but that’s fine. However, I think we can stand to grow up shed some of the racial taboos of the past few centuries.
Personally, I’ll be gals when those who do chose to date across color lines are no big deal to anyone, and WM/BF couples are seen just as “normal” as any other kind romantic relationship between two human beings.
Y’know, like this:
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^ BTW. I doubt if the U.S. is yet ready for such advertising. Nina Keita’s character comes across as far too feminine, too vulnerable, too… real.
In other words, in this commercial she is occupying the space usually reserved for a White girl in U.S. advertising.
Kudos to the Buenos Aires ad agency who managed to pull this off.
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HAPPY BIRTHDAY!! Many happy returns! 🙂
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Notice also that they wrote her with a small flaw. She forgets things all the time. They didn’t try to use the “cool” hard-nosed Black-female-in-charge stereotype.
Instead, they let her be cute and endearing.
This is terrible, but when I fist saw this clip, I kept wondering if they had written out the whole script for someone White, and then, at the last minute substituted it with a Black girl. I was that surprised by the treatment.
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Bulanik, it is about context. My comment about black men marrying white women being a disgrace should be taken within context. I was referring to the percentage. When you consider that amongst British born men (mainly from from the West Indian stock) the figure is edging towards 50% then yes it is a disgrace. It implies that something is amiss. When a person, regardless of their race choose to date exclusively white or black or orange, then yes, something is amiss. When black professional men seem only to date or marry white women, then yes something is amiss.
I did not simply say that black men having relationships with white women is a disgrace. Clearly that would be ridiculous. The statement was made within the context of the prevalence and what the figures imply.
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@King, yes it would be ideal. I am married to a white British man so I am the last person who would claim that people should date only those who are of the same race. I am concerned about the motives – the lamenting by many black women “oh why don’t white men marry us” and the conscious rejection of black women by black men.
People should live and let live. Love comes in all shapes, sizes and colour. I have made this statement over and over again. So, I clearly have no problems with people dating outside their race. I have problems when these motives are warped.
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Wow! What a difference a couple of days make!!!!!
BTW, Many happy returns @Bulanik. I sincerely hope you had a lovely day.
And don’t you think we ALL, as human beings, crave for acceptance from others? This is a human need. Women want acceptance from men. Men want acceptance from women. Children want acceptance from their parents. And so on. Please let us not be too harsh with our sisters (although I don’t think you are, Demerera ) I don’t know what these so desperately seeking believe they will get? Benediction from white society? What do you think they are hoping to find?
I totally agree with what you say about people craving acceptance and realise people will go to desperate lengths to get this. This tends to happen when you feel like you have been rejected/alienated from one set group and wish to totally obliterate all the feelings associated with this negativity. To ensure you disassociate yourself totally from these negative feelings we latch on to something else and an ideal is then made up and then, so determined are we to make this ideal ‘fit’, it becomes a fixation where people will ignore or dismiss or justify things to reach that ‘happy’ ending. Approval is what they are hoping to find, and maybe for some, if they get the Approval from White People then they feel elevated as historically, White Opinion has always been deemed the most pervasive and authorative the world over. Once you are accepted by someone with such strong links as this then maybe they can come to terms with being/feeling rejected within their own race/culture.
The missing link for ANYONE seeking acceptance/approval from people of a different race in the instances we are talking about (i.e. these IR dating sites/forums) is ALWAYS the fact that the said individual has not yet come to terms with accepting and liking/loving who they themselves are as a person. Either one core event or sequence of events from either an internal or an external influence have affected how that individual feels the world views them and either wittingly or unwittingly seeks to change their path in life. Unfortunately, regardless of who you ‘hook up with’ in future, the truth will always out – I am saddened to think that in these instances, whatever hurt that the BW on these forums have gone throught has left them in a potentially vulnerable position in terms of their often barely concealed desperation.
We knew what racism was, how it worked, were prepared for it, but weren’t taught to care too much about White people’s opinions. Our own opinion of ourselves was what mattered. Black men were definitely on the menu! A man was just a man.
Ditto to the above and I guess that I always thought other BW would automatically follow suit on this too but, the reality is that we all come from very different walks of like so it aint necessarily so.
RE Statistics on IR dating/relationships in the UK
There must be some recent statistics somewhere but I will be blowed if I can find them!
From a purely visual perspective, certainly in the South of England where I am from, there is a significantly higher proportion of BM in relationships with WW than there are BW in relationships WM. I dont doubt that this will change in the future and I am certainly not in the minority in terms of being in an IRR amongst my peers but it is still definately the converse that is the majority.
Now, I will probably be a little controversial here but despite the disparity in percentages, I reckon the same if not higher percentage of BW/WM get married as the BM/WW.
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Hmmm @Bulanik
What do you think of Romance?
It definately has its place but it is not a practical/sustainable thing in my life. For me it is a warm and fuzzy memory conjured up when life feels less than happy reminding me that there are times when I have and do feel loved.
How do you think Black women feel about it?
I think for the longest time we were made to feel that ‘romance’ did not and could not apply in our worlds and that we were lustful people who merely ‘got down’ to suit our racing hormones rather than facing up to, acknowledging and embracing the fact that there was an emotional connection. I’ve lost count of the times that I have heard WM say that they heard BW were ‘up for it’ all the time. Wishful thinking on their parts – either that or they hope that BW will be up to challenge that theory to satisfy their curiosity I guess.
Can romantic notions be damaging? Only if you let them – nothing wrong in dreaming 🙂
How does anti-Black racism work inside the romantic ideal framework?
Perhaps that ‘baggage’ is carried forward and many Black People think to convey these sort of Hallmark slushy comments etc detract from who they are as people of colour. This makes it sound like Black People are devoid of emotion – not at all. There is a difference though in that I think that we dont often say things for the sake of saying them. We say it when we mean it and thats it.
How bout you Bulanik? What are your thoughts on all of this?
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@ Bulanik, it is for emphasis. I am saying it would be ridiculous. I am not saying you would say that. I am only using it as emphasis. Again, call I can say is please read it within the context.
Anyway, to conclude on this matter (as there is not much more I can say on this issue without repeating myself) I have seen far too many black women dying slowly stressing over this “why do white men not marry us” business. I know of close friends who are only interested in white men and have nothing but disappointment to show for it. This hankering after men of a particular race betrays an underlying psychological problem. Let me make clear that I am not saying dating/marrying men of a different race is a problem. It is the hankering, the desperation, the need, the lamenting – that’s what signals that there is something deeper going on.
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@ Bulanik and King, The ONS has data on marriages in the UK. I would say that based on these stats, marriage is rare. Perhaps my definition of rare is different to yours. I cannot speak about the US but marriage is not very common in the UK any more. Stats can be found at the ONS but the article below is based on data from the ONS and may be of interest.
Remember also that marriage is even lower amongst black people (well excluding Africans).
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2010/feb/11/marriage-rates-uk-data
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I am trying to catch up with the many comments that have come through
@ King with regards to the Wikipedia info, it is totally consistent with 50% black men marrying white women.
As you noted, it says that Black men are 50% more likely to marrying outside their race. If we took Bulanik’s figure that roughly 35% of black women marry outside their race, that would take the black male figure to over 50%. However, I think the black female figure is more like 2 out of 10 (max). This would take the black male figure to 40%. According to the ONS figures I sent you, the marriage rate for black males is about 30-40% (I can’t remember now which of the two). Now remember this is just marriage. This does not include other relationships. So that figure is likely to be higher. Note that when black men in the UK marry outside their race, it is almost always a white woman.
Which ever way you slice it, here in the UK, you are almost just as likely to see a black man with a white woman as you would see him with a black woman. In my experience, I see just as many or more black men with white women as with black men with black women. The only time I see more black men with black women is when I attend African events.
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I forgot to add King that when you say the figure is 2% of all marriages that this is not surprising since the black population is only small proportion of the total population in the UK. One would need to look at the figure as a fraction of the black male population. That’s where the 50% comes in. If you look at it as a fraction of the entire UK inter-racial marriage population (which includes white, black, asian, chinese etc), then of course it would be a much smaller figure.
I am not saying that there isn’t inter-racial marriages besides white and black. I thought we were focusing on inter-racial marriages involving black and some other race.
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@Maureen,
This hankering after men of a particular race betrays an underlying psychological problem
Very succinctly put. In my own way, this is the point that I was trying to get across. People like who they like, love who they love etc but, when it comes down to the ‘ideal’ of a person based on their race to the with the single minded and deliberate exclusion of their own, generally suggests some deep seated personal issue.
You would hope that when finding that special someone, if in the case of an IR relationship, that your significant other reveres ALL aspects of your make up including your cultural difference/heritage etc. If you come to that relationship with these issues, how will this manifest itself in terms of what your mate will learn and then pass on in future? I am hoping that if one thing comes out of IRR it is a more accepting, embracing and progressive society but fear that this would merely confirm all the negative stereotypes that different races believe about others, particularly if an individual from a particular race appears to support those beliefs by behaving in this way.
Wonder what would happen if everyone was stricken with ‘colourblindness?’ though I suspect that people would STILL find a way to differentiate. 🙂
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@ Bulanik, Happy belated birthday just read through the last of the postings and noticed that you were celebrating your birthday.
@Demerara I made a list of the characteristics I was looking for in a mate. I did not care what colour they came in. What was most important to me was being happy and at peace in a relationship. The packaging is important but what is most important is what’s inside of that package.
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@ Bulanik
Oh, I found a little more background on the clip I posted last night.
The videomercial is called “Pattern Play.” here’s a little behind the scenes.
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The title of this piece is “Why so few white men marry black women.” And since I am a white man who knows quite a few other white men, I thought my perspective would be of interest. I appreciate that my comments might seem hurtful to some, but they simply are in response to the basic fact referenced in Abagond’s essay:most white men prefer white women. Whether you explain that fact in terms of white racism or “preference” or genetics, in the end it really does not matter. We like who and what we like, no matter that other people may wish we thought differently about this.
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@ StandardNYCWhiteMan
I don’t think anyone was asking why White men don’t marry Black women as much as they marry white women.
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I appreciate that my comments might seem hurtful to some
No dear, passing wind whilst suffering from hemrrhoids is hurtful, opinions from some unknown person on the internet is funny!
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Bulanik, interesting question. This has been the subject of many research. My personal view is that for some of these black men (not all) there is an underlying problem of self-loathing. They may deny it and it may not be immediately apparent to them. However, if they were to truly examine their motives, I think they would come to that realisation.
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@herneith: once again, right on the money! 😀
For me it is the individual. I’ve said it before and I keep saying it: it is about you. If I happen to fall in love, I do not care if you are black, white, green or pink. It has happened and perhaps will happen again someday. I think King up there was right.
“Personally, I’ll be gals when those who do chose to date across color lines are no big deal to anyone, and WM/BF couples are seen just as “normal” as any other kind romantic relationship between two human beings.”
Thats what is supposed to be. Two humanbeings love each other. Who cares if the other is whote and the other is black?
Which brings up another side of this “right couples” thing: have you noticed that people seem to get agitated if the guy is short and the woman is tall? Of the other is fat and the other thin? Too much age difference? One “ugly” and the other “pretty”? Like Sophia Loren and Carlo Ponti. Now why would one of the most beautiful women in the world choose an old creepy midget like that as her spouse? Duh… She loved him and vise verca.
I think the color is just one but perhaps the biggest hiccup the society has about couples in some countries. We should get rid of all of them.
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@StandardNYCMan
We like who and what we like
True
no matter that other people may wish we thought differently about this.
Hmmm. I think you need to read some of the responses a little more carefully. I dont think you will find BW on here craving the attentions of WM. On the contrary, for many, this isnt necessary as the interest is already there!!! 🙂
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@Bulanik and Demerera
how come more Black men do not hanker after Black women more?
Interesting question and one I think has many potential answers
* As you say, it could be internalised racism or self hatred
*Wanting a partner who is as different to the primary female role model you had (mother/grandmother/aunt) as possible (due to bad upbringing though I sincerely hope this is rare)
* I also think that there is a long long long legacy here of it being indoctrined into people that WW prevail in the beauty stakes
* Personal taste/preference
* Maybe WW are not as concerned about commitment i.e. marriage as maybe a BW brought up with a religious background and maybe some BM find this off putting?
Now, this is not necessarily true of all WW – this is just ‘hearsay’ on my part taken from ‘some’ of the BM that have been in my life past/present so it is just a small proportion in the grand scheme of things. It has also occured to me that maybe some BM use this as a cop out or as a way to urge women to ‘put out’ quicker by so called putting one off against the other but anyway, some BM say that WW put up less resistance in terms of the courting and all that follows etc. I really must stres with this point that there is no literal credence to this as far as I know from my white female friends that date BM though.
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Oops – the post above is for Bulanik and Maureen
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@Demerera!
Thanks for those wonderful vids! Makes me dance dwn the memory lane… Aciiiiid!!!
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@Bulanik
“Could I just look at this from a slightly different perspective for a minute – and ask how come more Black men do not hanker after Black women more? What are the Black men looking for, in these relatively large numbers, as they reject or pursue women based on skin colour alone?”
Idk about the black women in the UK, but in the US I would have to say it’s:
1)Excess weight
2)Bad attitudes
3)Lack of hair management
4)Ghetto behavior
5)Matriarchal beliefs
That’s probably the reason why men of many races stay away from a lot black females. Of course, I am not talk about ALL of any demographic. Just a significant amount.
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Hopefully this will stop the italics lkja;lkjlkj
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Well, as a nordic man, I definitely see more bm/ww relationships here in Finland. Maybe the liberated finnish women are more open to ir dating. That being said, there are many finnish men who’d love to have a relationship with bw, but are too shy about it. They feel like they would not be preferred by bw… Funny, though, I’ve seen bw in night clubs that I feel are open to reationhip with a wm, but are overtly cautious and fear that they would be treated only as sex toys and one night stands. Whereas, bm have no problems with that! They are more than happy to be treated as sex toys! So bw in Finland assume that wm treat them like bm treat finnish women. Mind you, many finnish women are okay with that. They want to explore.
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@Bulanik
Hair
I’ve noticed that a lot of Black women in the States do not know how to manage the hair on their head at all. Many attempt to straighten it by perms and other methods that only leave it thin, damaged, and disheveled. Of course, you also have the cheap unappealing plastic looking weaves, which I personally find to be an absolute turn off. I’ll see if I can find some visuals to demonstrate the type of hair that is common among many US black women.
Bad attitudes
I’m trying to think about how I can expound on this… basically all I can say is that some black women can be pretty loud and belligerent at times. Idk what fuels this, but I have experienced these types of attitudes among blk females since elementary school. It’s pretty hard to explain to someone who has never witnessed this(I’m assuming your’e completely oblivious to this signature bw attitude being from Europe and all). Just imagine saying the simplest non-offending thing to someone only to have that person scrounge up their face treat you to an unfriendly abrasive retort…. it’s like that. Could you imagine having a full blown conversation with someone who communicated in such a way? I can’t possible quantify how many blk chicks act like that, but it’s A LOT, enough to make a difference.
Matriarchal beliefs
Not sure if I labelled this correctly, but I am talking about a perverted feminist belief, that demands that women are superior(not equal) to men. Basically, it’s the belief that women should dominate men. This kinda goes along with the attitude thing.
Everything else is self-explanatory(I hope).
Wish it wasn’t this way, but I’m sorry a LOT of black females fit the negative stereotypes.
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@Hannu L
So glad you enjoyed the videos. Can’t believe that they are over 20 years old now. My memories from this era are still so Fresh 🙂
@Cynic
Wow! Thats a pretty damning list particularly as you say it relates to a significant amount of BW in the U.S though i’m sure you must mean more in your locality surely????
Like Bulanik too I am intrigued as to what lack of hair management means?
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@Demerera
It really isn’t my fault that a lot of black women fit the negative stereotypes about their group. Maybe I could ignore it, but I see it EVERY… SINGLE…DAY… all of the time… in my locality and others throughout the US.
Let us not pretend as if these women do not exist bc they do, in mass, whether some would like to admit it or not.
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I think that some commenters have missed the main point of why this topic needs to be discussed. I believe that MOST BW in America are not self haters, “desperate for WM”, or “suffering from a psychological problem” when they express a preference (as MANY HUMAN BEINGS do) for one type of man over another.
The main reason this topic is important is because, historically, American men have been brainwashed to be A–h—-s to BW and to NOT consider them “acceptable” to seriously date and/or marry. MOST American men have chosen to accept this mindset but a minority of American men have chosen to reject it.
If anyone genuinely wants to understand why there is a higher singleness rate among BW in America in comparison to NON-BW, they must be willing to admit/accept that American culture/media has ALWAYS promoted ANTI-BW HATE and this has affected how EVERYONE (especially American men) views/treats BW.
ANTI-BW HATE in America also greatly affects BW’s options for dating/marriage by severely limiting the amount of men who are willing to date and/or marry them.
NON-BW in America don’t have to/have NEVER had to deal with the tremendous amount of ANTI-BW HATE (and other brands of ANTI-BW BS) that creates major problems for BW in their relationship lives.
Addressing ANTI-BW HATE in America and finding ways to challenge/condemn/destroy it (so it doesn’t continue to negatively affect BW’s relationship lives) is an important/necessary topic of discussion.
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I understand where Cynic is coming from. Poor hair care is definitely a big problem. Most black women here in London either spot a horrible wig/weave or have relaxed hair that looks thin and lank. This is particularly so amongst black African women. I think the way a lot of black women wear their hair is very very unattractive.
Bad attitude? I would say overly aggressive and loud at inappropriate times. Many are always on the ready to confront and fight.
Don’t know about feminist thing you refer to.
However, saying all this, I do not criticise black women for this because I can understand why some behave in this way. When you are hard pressed on every side you can develop a hard shell and an aggressive stance – it is a protective response.
In my experience, black African women appear to have a calmer demeanour than West Indians or British born blacks.
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Maureen says,
I understand where Cynic is coming from. Poor hair care is definitely a big
problem. Most black women here in London either spot a horrible wig/weave or have relaxed hair that looks thin and lank. This is particularly so amongst black African women. I think the way a lot of black women wear their hair is very very unattractive.
Bad attitude? I would say overly aggressive and loud at inappropriate times. Many are always on the ready to confront and fight.
laromana says,
Maureen/Cynic,
BW in America are also often told that American men are rejecting them due to their “unattractive” hair/appearance or their “loud/bad attitudes” but since these same men are willing to pursue unattractive NON-BW with “loud/bad attitudes”, it’s clear that ANTI-BW HATE is the REAL reason these men reject BW (regardless of their “appearance” or “attitude”.
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@ Cynic
I wasnt trying to pretend that women like this dont exist – I was merely trying to make a point that although this may be your experience in your locality that hopefully this was not representative of most BW across the U.S. Having never been to America clearly I can’t comment on the type of BW that you encounter day to day.
Its not nice to think that BW may be perceived in this way at all – I sincerely hope that as time goes on and the next generations prevail, this image of BW fades.
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Laromana, I cannot say that Black women are rejected by British men (whatever the race) because of their unattractive hair or bad attitudes.
I am simply making an observation on what might be considered poor hair management. These wigs look so unnatural and they are a signal of a desire to have European hair. Some black women relax their hair and the results are truly unattractive (at least to me) – thin, lanky, stiff and sticking out. Those with their natural hair really look smooth.
When you say that American men are willing to pursue unattractive non-black women with loud/bad attitudes, are you talking about white or black men. Frankly, I see no reason why white men should prefer unattractive loud/bad attitude black women to unattractive loud/bad attitude white women. I would not say that it is anti-black women hatred for them to prefer their own unattractive loud/bad attitude women. I would not like any unattractive loud/bad attitude person. However, if I had to choose, I would choose an unattractive loud/bad attitude black man over an unattractive loud/bad attitude white man and it would not be because of some anti-white man hatred.
If however you are referring to black men, then that brings us back to the questions posed earlier by Bulanik.
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@Demerera
My bad. I thought you were a JA immigrant living in the US. So many ppl comment here. I must have confused/jumbled your comment history w/ some1 else’s.
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Maureen says,
When you say that American men are willing to pursue unattractive non-black women with loud/bad attitudes, are you talking about white or black men. Frankly, I see no reason why white men should prefer unattractive loud/bad attitude black women to unattractive loud/bad attitude white women. I would not say that it is anti-black women hatred for them to prefer their own unattractive loud/bad attitude women. I would not like any unattractive loud/bad attitude person. However, if I had to choose, I would choose an unattractive loud/bad attitude black man over an unattractive loud/bad attitude white man and it would not be because of some anti-white man hatred.
laromana says,
In my comment I referred to American men (of ALL races) being willing to pursue unattractive NON-BW with “loud/bad attitudes”. I’ve seen this happen repeatedly.
I’ve also seen attractive BW with great attitudes be rejected by American men (of ALL races) SOLELY because they’re BW.
This is why I cited ANTI-BW HATE as the REAL reason that BW are being rejected in America and NOT the ANTI-BW “excuses” MANY American men make up.
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I know this is a really old thread. . .but how about we just get to know someone. Stop worrying about skin color. . .that’s SKIN deep. It’s what’s inside that counts! I’ve met some UGLY white folks. And I mean UGLY inside. . .
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I used to tell people I was an alien. . .My ‘avatar’ they gave me proves it! LOL!!! Green with glasses!
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Bulanik says,
It seems the way things are set up, some folks do not want Black women to win out. At any cost. Because they have:
Bad Hair.
Bad attitude.
Bad this.
Bad that. And,
Bad the other.
Nobody wants bad anything. Nobody wants to be NEVER good enough, and, nobody gets better by being told they are no good.
So, for many Black women it goes like this:
– You are unwanted because you don’t make your hair nice,
– Because your demeanour is unpleasing and, your style, unfeminine.
– You are unwant-able, anyway.
– Your desires will meet with rejection, and,
– It’s your own fault.
And, if a Black woman is:
– Nice-looking, and,
– Her demeanour pleasant, and style, feminine…..then what the chances?
She is will still be a reject, and her desire will still meet with failure, because that’s her fault too.
Have I understood it correctly?
If if I understand this properly, then why am I not surprised that there are SOME Black women are afflicted wtih astonishingly bitter, combative attitudes, cannot see their own beauty and who do not care for their looks? They are The Unwanted Women, right?
These women are just like any other women – passionate, emotional and yearning to feel beautiful. Where does all their fury and hurt go if they are despised because they are women and scorned because they are Black?
laromana says,
EXCELLENT comment,Bulanik. These ANTI-BW LIES, MYTHS, and STEREOTYPES are at the heart of the ANTI-BW HATE in American culture/media and must be confronted/condemned/destroyed.
It is WRONG/UNACCEPTABLE for American culture/media to continue trashing the humanity, dignity, and femininity of BW.
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“It seems the way things are set up, some folks do not want Black women to win out. At any cost. Because they have:
Bad Hair.
Bad attitude.
Bad this.
Bad that. And,
Bad the other.”
@Bulanik
Your misconstruing what I say. Those types of things DO apply to a significant amount of bw and it does make those individual women unattractive, however, you shouldn’t take those traits and apply them to all bw. BW aren’t some monolithic group that you can paint with a single brush and stroke.
And no. Bad attitudes are NEVER justified. I can’t even believe some would suggest such a ridiculous thing. PLENTY of people around the globe have hard times and struggles, but that doesn’t mean they can go around being unpleasant to people.
I’m sorry, but no one is single bc they are black. If men are not attracted to you physically, emotionally, or culturally it is bc of who you are and not any alleged oppression.
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@Cynic
ALL of the things you listed about black women are a result of the constant hatred that we experience. People hate black women because they are black, and that has consequences. Unattractive consequences lol.
1)Excess weight
This is often the result of emotional eating. Also, we as a group have just got to stop with the slave food lol!
2)Bad attitudes
People are hostile to certain types of black women because they see angry black women on TV hitting people all the time. Yes, women like that do exist, but the fact that they represent ALL black women (and they do) is racist. Not all black men are thugs either, but people enjoy seeing them.
3)Lack of hair management
There is a lack of representation of black women in the beauty industry. Also, although a lot of strides are being made with regard to wearing your hair natural, it’s still not the “sexy” thing to do with your hair.
4)Ghetto behavior
There are trashy people in every race, but blacks are the most hated, and ours get the most airtime.
5)Matriarchal beliefs
Many black women have survived without men as part of our history. I don’t think many black women believe this at all actually. I think this is more a question of perception.
I agree with you that no one is single because they are black, but there are MANY black women who are perceived as having bad attitudes and being ghetto simply because they are black.
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@The Cynic
“Those types of things DO apply to a significant amount of bw and it does make those individual women unattractive, however, you shouldn’t take those traits and apply them to all bw. BW aren’t some monolithic group that you can paint with a single brush and stroke.”
Yeah, but when people say some black women have bad attitudes or are ghetto the negative statements affect how all black women are perceived. It does not matter that you pointed out that you are only talking about some black women. That is not specific enough.
Tell a few mothers that some of the local doctors are pedophiles and I ensure you – when they will be taking their kids for doctor’s appointments they will be extra cautious.
This is how our minds work. When we believe that some members of a group are bad the next time we will meet a member of that group we will think about the possibility that (s)he is one of the bad ones.
Negative opinions about some unspecified members of a group hurt the image of the whole group.
Minimize the collateral damage – be as precise as possible and talk about smaller groups of women, like uneducated black women or women who lack self control.
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@Faye
We could look at all of this at a sociological perspective, but what’s the point? Are men supposed to ignore all of those negative traits many black women adhere to simply bc BW are allegedly oppressed? Are people supposed to excuse unpleasant attitudes and ghetto behavior bc a women is black? We can look for the reasons certain things occur all day, but that doesn’t stop the fact that they happen and that ppl are going to react to them.
@Eco
All I did was answer Bulanik’s question. Unfortunately, the answer involves a lot of negative stereotypes that happen to be true for many BW. Saying it aloud isn’t nearly as bad as witnessing it. I’m not at fault for speaking honestly on this subject. Blame the ignorant people that prejudge and the BW those unattractive characteristics apply to.
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Bulanik,
I suppose it can follow thus, that if a section of people are trashed, rejected, lied about, under-educated and mis-educated about themselves and who and what they are – so on and on – in many ways, overtly and subliminally, over a matter of generations, then some of them are going to be disproportionately single as a result, too. Yes, certainly, it’s cumulative. I have simply met too many softly-spoken, educated, well-balanced, beautifully-groomed Black women who are single because they are Black. I wouldn’t blame them for it, but I have noticed it.
laromana says,
Bulanik, Faye,Eco,
Your comments illustrate the main point I’m making that HISTORICAL ANTI-BW HATE in American culture/media greatly contribututes to the negative ways BW are viewed/treated by EVERYONE and the negative self image/behavior of SOME (not ALL) BW.
SOME NON-BW (of ALL races) in America display negative attitudes/actions, too, but their INDIVIDUAL misconduct isn’t GENERALIZED to ALL NON-BW (of their race).
It is also a FACT that American men (of ALL races) who are open to dating /marrying NON-BW (REGARDLESS of their “attitudes/actions”), do reject BW who are beautiful, soft-spoken, educated, well-balanced, beautifully-groomed (and who don’t conform to ANY negatived ANTI-BW stereotypes) SOLELY because they’re Black.
Cynic,
Your insistence on GENERALIZING the negative “attitudes/actions” of SOME BW to ALL BW while REFUSING to acknowledge the fact that SOME NON-BW (of ALL races) display the same negative “attitudes/actions”, clearly demonstrate your ANTI-BW HATER biases.
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@Laromana
I think that you are aware that you are wrongly accussing me of something I am clearly not doing. Please stop.
I have no bias. No reason to hate or dislike anybody. I am simply answering Bulanik’s question by telling the truth how I see it.
Also, I meant to touch on this with Faye, but OF COURSE their are certain types of attitudes/behaviors/cultures/what-ever you wanna call it that exist across groups. That isn’t what we are talking about though. Come back to me when you figure out what that is.(hint: it’s about numbers, shares, portions, percentages)
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@ Laromana
You refer to American Anti-BW sentiments. However, a number of us do not reside in the US. I am originally from the West Indies and I would not describe my observations as being influenced by the American media.
Where I come from, women are not typically overweight (well that is changing now), they do not use unsightly weaves and they are generally not loud and confrontational. Based on my experience of Black women here in the UK I can say that a substantial proportion are overweight, poorly dressed, with very unsightly weaves or damaged hair. Of course, there are women of other races who fall into that same category. However, in comparison to their population, it is a minority. Frankly, for us black women, the majority fall into the category of overweight and poorly turned out.
Stereotypting is a way of life and can be useful. Some stereotypes may be positive and some may be negative. However, stereotypes typically come about when a substantial proportion of a particular group of people are more likely than others to display a certain behaviour. For instance, with regards to stranger rapes or paedophilia, police here will first look for a white male. Robbery, they would think black male. Prostitution rings – Pakistanis or Eastern Europeans. This is not to say that people from other races do not commit these crimes. However, if a particular group is MORE LIKELY to exhibit a particular trait, then they will be stereotyped.
I do not know whether the weave thing or bad hair management contributes to black women being single. I imagine being overweight would. As for the confrontational attitude, I reckon it would not be viewed as a plus.
It is not immediately obvious to me why, say, a white man should prefer a loud, overweight black woman to a loud, overweight white woman. True they both have equally unsavoury traits. Personally, in general I find West Indians more attractive than others. I would prefer a loud, overweight West Indian to a loud overweight anyone else.
As far as I am concerned, I am only interested in equality of opportunities and fairness. I am not at all interested in why more men do not marry black women. I am more concerned about the damage that this longing for white love and acceptance is doing to black women. I am also concerned about the possible self-hatred that may propel black men to reject black women in favour of white women.
Before we get caught up with white men are not marrying black women, we should first address why black men are rejecting so many black women. We first need to understand why our very own rejects us. By the way Laromana, this problem is not only a problem in America. In the Caribbean there are lots of single black mothers. The men do not stick around.
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@Bulanik
I must place some blame on black women. Why? They are the mothers of these black men. My son is black of mixed heritage and I will make sure he shows due respect and consideration to black women – after all, his mother is a black woman. If my son rejects black women or have a negative view of black women just because they are black or because he thinks white women are better, then he is also rejecting me.
I do not expect him to appreciate or excuse the unsavoury traits of black women but I do expect him to understand why black women feel hard pressed on every side. I do expect him to respect all black women and give them the same respect he gives to all.
If our sons reject black women with the sense that white women are better, then one must ask whether mothers should try harder to change the negative perception that their sons may have of black women.
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@Bulanik
I would say symantics. However, if I must choose, I would say the word blame is more appropriate in terms of what I am thinking.
These men are adults today but part of their conditioning as adults took place very early on. If black men turn out to ‘dislike’ black women or see them as unsuitable partners BECAUSE they are black then I am left to wonder what role did the mothers have in these men’s current perception of black women.
I am not saying that black women must be held fully responsible but can we not do more? Why are our sons not aware of the plight of black women – I think someone mentioned that these black men who chase after white women may not be fully aware of the lonliness and hurt suffered by black women. Put it this way, why do we raise sons who hate us or who are blind to the plight of black women?
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Bulanik, I can’t say 10% or 50% blame. What I can say is that they are not blameless. Some (not all) of the blame can be attributed to them. This also means that others including these men and their fathers should shoulder some responsibility for this problem.
If so many black men are unaware of the plight of black women and if so many actively prefer white women to black women, then what has black mothers done to address this problem? Have they tried and failed or are they simply not doing much?
I don’t know. Just asking.
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I am not referring to blame in the context of “blame game”. Just blame as in who is responsible. I think there are a number of factors that are responsible (or put more strongly, can be blamed) for this negative perception amongst black men. I think black women should shoulder some of the blame/responsibility.
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The Cynic says,
@Faye
We could look at all of this at a sociological perspective, but what’s the point?
Are men supposed to ignore all of those negative traits MANY black women adhere to simply bc BW are allegedly oppressed?
Are people supposed to excuse unpleasant attitudes and ghetto behavior bc a WOMEN IS BLACK?
@Eco
All I did was answer Bulanik’s question.
Unfortunately, the answer involves a lot of negative stereotypes that HAPPEN TO BE TRUE FOR MANY BW.
laromana says,
Cynic,
Why don’t YOU REREAD the NEGATIVE/ANTI-BW GENERLIZATIONS in your above comments and get back to me on why I responded with my comments below.
laromana’s response to Cynic:
Cynic,
Your insistence on GENERALIZING the negative “attitudes/actions” of SOME BW to ALL BW while REFUSING to acknowledge the fact that SOME NON-BW (of ALL races) display the same negative “attitudes/actions”, clearly demonstrate your ANTI-BW HATER biases.
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Maureen says,
It is not immediately obvious to me why, say, a white man should prefer a loud, overweight black woman to a loud, overweight white woman. True they both have equally unsavoury traits. Personally, in general I find West Indians more attractive than others. I would prefer a loud, overweight West Indian to a loud overweight anyone else.
laromana says,
Maureen,
None of my comments state that WM should “prefer “loud, overweight black woman to a loud, overweight white woman.
I did need to stress, however, that American men (of ALL races) are willing to date and/or marry unattractive NON-BW with “bad attitudes” while ignoring, dismissing, and rejecting BW (REGARDLESS of their appearance/attitude) SOLELY because they are Black.
As an Afrolatina BW, I’ve had American WM come right out and tell me that they would date me if “I wasn’t Black”. Other BW have also had this experience with American men (of ALL races).
Maureen says,
Maureen
@ Laromana
You refer to American Anti-BW sentiments. However, a number of us do not reside in the US. I am originally from the West Indies and I would not describe
my observations as being influenced by the American media.
laromana says,
My reference to the ANTI-BW attitudes of American men wasn’t meant to discount how BW are treated outside the U.S.
However, I’ve had many BW tell me that MORE NON-American men (European/non-European) have a greater appreciation for BW’s beauty/femininity and are MORE open to dating and/or marrying BW than American men.
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@Bulanik
“This led us to ask why many Black men do this, and reject good and good-looking Black women because they are Black. Even Black women who are ‘..beautiful, soft-spoken, educated, well-balanced, beautifully-groomed (and who don’t conform to ANY negatived ANTI-BW stereotypes)…’?”
What you described above is not reality.
@Laromona
I didn’t write out any generalizations. I made extra sure not to use the word ‘ALL’ in my comments. The fact is that a higher proportion of black American women fit those descriptions than non-blk American women.
If you are a bw and the aforementioned stereotypes do not apply to you, then their is no reason to take offense.
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^ It depends on what you mean, Cynic. There are *SOME* Black men who are only looking for a White or “other” girlfriend. In those cases, they will reject any woman who is Black. Now, I don’t say that the woman will not find a Black man who is interested in her…
But then, Black young men are disproportionately populating prisons, unemployed, and undereducated. So it may be that a beautiful, soft-spoken, educated, well-balanced, beautifully-groomed BW may have some trouble finding her mirror opposite if that particular demographic is intent on dating White or “other.”
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@King
“There are *SOME* Black men who are only looking for a White or “other” girlfriend.”
-These guys are like a super minority though. They’re insigificant. The overwhelming majority of BM are willing to date, marry, have sex with, cohabitate, and procreate with BW.
“BW may have some trouble finding her mirror opposite if that particular demographic is intent on dating White or ‘other’.”
-Who said those BW are looking for their “mirror opposite”? Who said that demo(mirror opposite BM) is intent on dating white or ‘other’ women? Why can’t that BW find a white or ‘other’ man?
@Bulanik
-Okay, I just find it hard to believe that these “perfect” BW are being rejected just bc they are black. I hear BW in the US make up the same pretend scenario.
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“These guys are like a super minority though”
At least a minority, but the numbers might be skewed higher amongst the more successful. in other words, The more successful some Black guys get, the more likely they might be to couple with White partners. I know that’s pretty far fetched… but at least it’s possible.
Most women are looking for a man who is educationally and economically their equal or better. Argument?
“Why can’t that BW find a white or ‘other’ man?”
I don’t know. Maybe broad brushed social perceptions that make people believe that getting with a Black woman is not an upwardly mobile move. Especially given the history of Blacks in this country.
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The Cynic says,
We could look at all of this at a sociological perspective, but what’s the point? Are men supposed to ignore all of those negative traits many black women adhere to simply bc BW are allegedly oppressed? Are people supposed to excuse unpleasant attitudes and ghetto behavior bc a women is black? We can look for the reasons certain things occur all day, but that doesn’t stop the fact that they happen and that ppl are going to react to them.
I think this perspective is the only way to actually change the way that people are. It’s easy to hate black women for having these qualities (it’s already being done), but if you have compassion for other people, then it’s impossible to see certain types of people and not empathize with them. Also, one of the main things I want to stress is that THERE ARE WOMEN OF ALL RACES WHO HAVE THESE QUALITIES. ESPECIALLY THE WEIGHT THING- ALL WOMEN STRUGGLE WITH THEIR WEIGHT. The amount of fat black women on TV is more about a lack of thin sexy black women (who are far less welcome because of the video vixen thing).
Ghetto behavior- it’s really more a question of class than blackness in a lot of cases. I knew a lot of lower income white and Hispanic women growing up, and you could put them on TV and entertain the nation if they had the sub-human status that black women generally do.
I am not denying in any way that these women exist, I just feel they shouldn’t be our representatives. MoNique and the Basketball Wives are not elected officials.
I’m not personally affected by many of the problems that a lot of black women face in the stereotypical sense- I have a middle class background with two parents, am from the suburbs and sound like it, have a “feminine demeanor” etc., and enough non-black features to be complimented on by well-meaning racists. Most people are nice to me. From this perspective, I have seen people react to all types of perfectly nice black women in almost hostile ways thanks to the constant black bitch stereotype on TV. If you happen to not be smiling, have a “black sounding voice”, then you are an actual danger in some people’s eyes if you have a problem with something. I have encountered very few black women who seemed like they were actually going to hit someone, but I have seen the people around them react as if it was “about to go down”, when I see a perfectly reasonable woman.
I wish black women had more control over their public representations. If there is a show, and all the white women on it are young, slender, and beautiful, the one black character shouldn’t be middle-aged, overweight, and plain. It really does appear that there are no black women who fit that description if you see it enough times. Also, black men are not helping either with the whole “ho” thing, I would rather have people think I was mean and sassy than a ho personally lol!
Also, I know there are a lot of articles on it, but I simply don’t know that many black women who are that interested in dating white men in a way that they are bothered by the lack of attention. I always feel like the odd one out with my crushes. I would prefer a black man, but because of where I grew up, I tend to feel just as comfortable around people of all races, but this is not a common perspective. I realized a couple of years ago that black men with my background aren’t checking for black girls in the same way that we are, and it’s just wiser to keep your options open.
I don’t know any black women with 2 or more qualities from Cynic’s list who are lamenting the lack of white male attention out there for them lol!
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Cynic says,
I didn’t write out any generalizations. I made extra sure not to use the word ‘ALL’ in my comments. The fact is that a higher proportion of black American women fit those descriptions than non-blk American women.
If you are a bw and the aforementioned stereotypes do not apply to you, then their is no reason to take offense.
laromana says,
I noted your EXACT words and they ARE ANTI-BW GENERALIZATIONS as are YOUR UNTRUE ANTI-BW HATE claims (disguised as your “opinions”) that “a higher proportion of black American women fit those descriptions than non-blk American women”.
I/ALL BW have the right to confront/take offense at ANTI-BW HATE/HATERS.
YOU don’t KNOW EVERY BW so STOP spreading YOUR ANTI-BW LIES, MYTHS, and STEROTYPES A–h.
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@King
“At least a minority, but the numbers might be skewed higher amongst the more successful.”
-I don’t understand why you are attempting to make an argument based on unknown “possible” information. There is no poll, survey, or any scientific data, that I know of, that supports the claim that these “mirror opposite” BM are intent on finding a white or ‘other’ mate.
Do you yourself personally know plenty of upwardly mobile BM that *only* look for non-blk women as potential partners?
All of the most successful BM I know are married to black women…
“Maybe broad brushed social perceptions that make people believe that getting with a Black woman is not an upwardly mobile move. Especially given the history of Blacks in this country.”
-White and ‘other’ men do not have to be attracted to BW in general for a BW to find one that is attracted to her. The non-blk population in this country is so large that it really shouldn’t be hard for “a beautiful, soft-spoken, educated, well-balanced, beautifully-groomed BW” to find a non-blk mate.
This whole “I’m single bc I’m blk” thing is one gigantic myth. Too many ppl WANTING to be victims.
@reyeseunice
I don’t know what you are talking about and by the looks of it, you don’t either.
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Faye says,
Ghetto behavior- it’s really more a question of class than blackness in a lot of cases. I knew a lot of lower income white and Hispanic women growing up, and you could put them on TV and entertain the nation if they had the sub-human status that black women generally do.
I am not denying in any way that these women exist, I just feel they shouldn’t be our representatives. MoNique and the Basketball Wives are not elected officials.
I’m not personally affected by many of the problems that a lot of black women face in the stereotypical sense- I have a middle class background with two parents, am from the suburbs and sound like it, have a “feminine demeanor” etc., and enough non-black features to be complimented on by well-meaning racists. Most people are nice to me. From this perspective, I have seen people react to all types of perfectly nice black women in almost hostile ways thanks to the constant black bitch stereotype on TV. If you happen to not be smiling, have a “black sounding voice”, then you are an actual danger in some people’s eyes if you have a problem with something. I have encountered very few black women who seemed like they were actually going to hit someone, but I have seen the people around them react as if it was “about to go down”, when I see a perfectly reasonable woman.
I wish black women had more control over their public representations. If there is a show, and all the white women on it are young, slender, and beautiful, the one black character shouldn’t be middle-aged, overweight, and plain. It really does appear that there are no black women who fit that description if you see it enough times. Also, black men are not helping either with the whole “ho” thing, I would rather have people think I was mean and sassy than a ho personally lol!
Also, I know there are a lot of articles on it, but I simply don’t know that many black women who are that interested in dating white men in a way that they are bothered by the lack of attention. I always feel like the odd one out with my crushes. I would prefer a black man, but because of where I grew up, I tend to feel just as comfortable around people of all races, but this is not a common perspective. I realized a couple of years ago that black men with my background aren’t checking for black girls in the same way that we are, and it’s just wiser to keep your options open.
I don’t know any black women with 2 or more qualities from Cynic’s list who are lamenting the lack of white male attention out there for them lol!
laromana says,
Faye,
I strongly agree with your EXCELLENT comments (you and I have a lot in common-background,appearance, etc.) .
I appreciate the way you flesh out concepts I’ve brought up in my comments (eg. generalizing negative traits from SOME BW to ALL BW is at the heart of ANTI-BW HATE, ANTI-BW BM who PUBLICLY condone /promote ANTI-BW HATE are responsible for the continuing mistreatment /disrespect of BW in American culture/media).
Like you, I believe there is a MAJOR need for BW to have more control over our media image. It’s obvious that American media creators aren’t interested in presenting POSITIVE, ACCURATE, balanced images of BW.
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Cynic,
Your REFUSAL to acknowledge the FACT that MOST American men (of ALL races) ignore, dismiss, and reject BW for dating and/or marriage SOLELY because they’re BW doesn’t make it false or mean that BW are “pretending to be victims”.
Again, YOU know NOTHING about BW/our lives/experiences and just need to STOP spreading YOUR ANTI-BW LIES, MYTHS, and STEROTYPES A–h—.
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Based on my experience, the article should be entitled “why so few black women marry white men”, because black women have historically been hesitant to date outside of their race.
These are not my words, but the words of dozens of black women I’ve talked to about this in the past. Since I can remember, black women have been hesitant to date outside of their race. I LOVE black women, and in the past have approached many black women only to get rejected. They then tell me this.
Only in the last decade or so have black women become more open to interracial dating. My experience is a bit different in that I’m a college educated, white collar professional, and socialize with college educated white collar black women. They now acknowledge that if they (college educated black women) don’t date outside of their race, it’s pretty slim pickings for them. Black women are also mad and frustrated about black men dating non-black women. So, they’re tired of sitting home alone, childless, and manless, so they’re finally branching out.
In fact, the rate at which black women are marrying outside their race is rising at a faster rate than all other interracial marriages. In fact, I saw a statistic that predicts that black women/non-black men marriages will eventually catch up to black men/non-black women interracial marriages. This supports my observations that black women (who were historically opposed to interracial dating) are now opening up to the possibility.
I’m bi-racial myself (Caucasian and Hispanic), and am dating a great girl who is black. She admits that she’s only recently become open to interracial dating. Whereas I’ve always been open to dating black women, but only recently have I found black women receptive to dating me.
Oh, and by the way, please stop with all the “white people are evil and racist” bashing. That is reverse racism, and I’ll call that s**t out, even if it’s not PC to do so.
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I think it’s because it’s a known fact that most black people are not independent. They need help from the government or crime just to provide for themselves.
Blacks were more self sufficient during the slave days than they are now. So it’s not a genetic thing. The entitlement attitude has evolved over time.
The “White Man”(the liberal left) has convinced you blacks that you can’t do it on your own. You need our help. Whites, Asians and Europeans and even Hispanics are more self sufficient than black people these days. Please keep in mind that this is a generality and I do know there are a few self sufficient/independent black people out there, but they are getting more few and far between.
So if you are screaming for Govt assistance, know that you have succomed to the “I’m not good enough to do it on my own” attitude.
I’m white and wouldn’t date a black woman with that attitude. In fact, I wouldn’t date a white, european, asian or hispanic with that attitude. It’s just so hard to find any black people that are independent these days.
So you racial blacks keep blaming everyone but yourselves for your situation. And no matter where you fall on the education line, you actually believe what you scream.
I’ve stopped feeling sorry for you parasites and laugh at it now. If you keep begging for and getting assistance and special treatment, you will keep losing more independence. The funny thing is that you don’t even realize it.
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(Abagond, I know this doesn’t have anything to do with your post, but I just had to respond).
@ Jallen:
That fact that you use the term, “you racial blacks” makes it clear that you probably don’t even know any black people, aside from what you are selectively shown in the media or that nameless, faceless black guy you see at work. More than just a “few” black people work hard, pay taxes, are educated, middle-class and self-sufficient. As Abagond stated in an earlier post, white people are more likely to be given benefit of the doubt. Whites on food stamps or receiving unemployment benefits are just a good Americans who have fallen on hard times. Black people receiving the same benefits are seen as parasites who don’t want to work. By sheer numbers, more whites are receiving government benefits than blacks. So when you feel ill about writing that check every April to Uncle Sam, just think about all the white people you will be helping. That should make you feel better.
Somewhere on line, someone wrote an article about what would happen if folks in the Tea Party were black. Could you imagine? They’d be branded as angry rioters, worthy of law enforcement or the military being called in to control them. More than likely they wouldn’t be seen as patriotic, good, clean wholesome Americans who just love their country. How sad.
By the way, I doubt if any black women would want to date you, either.
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@ Jallen
Most people like you are impossible to help because you’re usually not very smart. (if you’re honest about it) You’re also usually too lazy to do any real research beyond reading a few blogs that all say the same things. And lastly, your beliefs are usually based on your own emotional needs to blame others for your own perceived problems, rather than facts. But, what the heck… I’ll try this once with you.
Firstly, Blacks are a relatively small percent of the U.S. population, only 12.6% based on the most recent 2010 Census.
According again to 2010 Census, 24.4 percent of the U.S. Black population is living below the poverty line (and are thus eligible for welfare) meaning that MOST blacks (75.6%) don’t receive Welfare. So, if you use your basic math, the 24% of Blacks who are actually on Welfare only represent 3% of the total U.S. population. YES, THREE PERCENT is what you’ve been complaining about. That is the White man’s burden that has been so holding you back.
The Highest number I could find for ALL combines social services was 12% of the total U.S. Budget (NOT just Welfare but including Medicare, Medicaid, student grants, school lunches, pensions for needy veterans, etc.)
http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-runawaywelfare.htm
If you break out the Welfare and Food stamp program (Medicare & Medicaide being by far the most costly o the social services suite) the percentage of the US budget would be around 2% or 3% of the U.S. budget pie.
BUT Wait… how does this effect your personal taxes? In the U.S. the top 25% of wage earners pay 85% of all income taxes. So, do you make $85,000 a year or more, Jallen? Somehow, I doubt it.
So the taxes that the sanctimonious Jallen actually pays toward Welfare and Food Stamps wouldn’t even be noticed because it amounts to so few pennies a day, and most of those pennies go to White females. (Although Blacks receive assistance at the highest per-capita rate)
Jallen, someone has sold you on this idea that you have been working hard and that most Black people are just sitting around collecting your money and spending it on drugs, booze, and fried chicken. You never really checked it out, but it sounded right to you. I mean, someone MUST be screwing you right, because hey, you don’t have as much money as you want and that CAN’T be your fault! So you have turned yourself into A VICTIM instead of taking responsibility for your own life. The very thing that you accuse Black people of doing.
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Nice comment King
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@ proudchocolategirl
Your comment reminded me of something that happened earlier this summer.
I was at a bar with my friend, (both of us are white males in our early thirties) we were sitting there talking with each other and 2 black women came and sat next to us. (I don’t think they noticed us at first it was just a convenient place for them to sit.) Anyway I ended up intermittently/casually chatting with one of them somehow and after a little while she asked me for my phone number. What was interesting to me was her choice of words. She said “you we’re very respectful and you know, I though i could call you or something….etc”
I declined, explaining that I was married. But I thought it was interesting that she seemed to be maybe surprised or impressed by me treating her with respect. I’ve never heard a WW make note of respect in that way.
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@King
Re your response to @ Jallen – Love it love it love it 🙂
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@Cynic said:- My bad. I thought you were a JA immigrant living in the US. So many ppl comment here. I must have confused/jumbled your comment history w/ some1 else’s.
You mean you don’t know who I am by now 🙂 lol
My heritage is West Indian but my family primarily hail from the French Speaking Islands.
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jas0nburns says,
What was interesting to me was her choice of words. She said “you we’re very respectful and you know, I though i could call you or something….etc”
-I declined, explaining that I was married. But I thought it was interesting that she seemed to be maybe surprised or impressed by me treating her with respect. I’ve never heard a WW make note of respect in that way.
proudchocolategirl says,
i think most black women probably just want respect from white men and men in general, forget dating/marriage…it would be a big step forward if many white men could just learn to respect black women, that’s the first step. until more white men learn how to do that, forget about marriage/dating.
-the number one complaint i hear from black women in terms of white men is not that “they don’t date/marry us” it’s that some white men just seem to outright “disrespect us.”
laromana says,
jas0nburns,
Thanks for noting how the BW who spoke to you appreciated that, as a WM, you showed her respect. You probably never heard a WW make note of respect in that way because American culture/media has always encouraged EVERYONE to respect women who are White.
Many people are unaware that, like proudchocolategirl noted, many BW feel disrespected by WM. This is consistent with a past comment I made that American men (of ALL races) have been brainwashed to disrespect BW.
Obviously, this needs to change before MORE BW feel they can trust WM enough to be open to date and/or marry them.
Cool Hand Lou,
These are not my words, but the words of dozens of black women I’ve talked to about this in the past. Since I can remember, black women have been hesitant to date outside of their race. I LOVE black women, and in the past have approached many black women only to get rejected. They then tell me this.
laromana says,
Cool Hand Lou,
When you say that “BW have been hestitant to date outside of their race until the last ten years” you need to clarify what you mean by “BW”.
It’s correct for you to say that MOST African American BW are hesitant to date outside of their race but Afrolatina BW, African BW, and Afrocaribbean BW HAVE ALWAYS BEEN OPEN to dating NON-BM (but, in our first hand experiences, have encountered MANY American men who HAVEN’T BEEN OPEN to dating and/or marrying BW).
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Thanks, jas0nburns and Demerera
* I should probably mention that adding Social Security to the Social Services slice of the budget pie would make it considerably larger. But SS is on a separate funding track. Therefore, I concentrated on the slice of Social Services (12%) that are tied directly to national poverty assistance.
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I’m intrigued. What do you guys in the U.S know about black people in other parts of the world e.g. the U.K? Do you feel a kinship or do you are you think we are disparate in every way?
I ask because in my life, I have always had a link with American people (though primarily black american) through my mother who had long, often revealing discussions with the American people she encountered/befriended along the way.
Interested to hear your interpretations/thoughts/experiences….
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@ Bulanik
Lol! A demotion for all my trouble!
@ Demerera
i think that we in America have always assumed that we had a link with Blacks worldwide. It is seems only relatively recently that we have become more aware there are big differences between us, and that we can’t necessarily project our attitudes, politics, and perceptions of the world, to people who look the same as us in other countries.
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* peeks in the room *
Wow, this topic is still being debated – interesting….
I just figure that everyone’s an individual, with their individual tastes, personal preferences, etc. – it’s when people feel the need to crow “My preference is better than yours!!” from the rooftops that I question their intelligence, confidence, and sanity.
Just my not-so-humble opinion…
Carry on. 😎
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@king: I think this jallen guy is still at school and living with mom and dad. He has too much free time and is an avid stromfront fan, because he is so dependent of his parents and feels a bit weak in his life. This black bashing gives him a feel of superiority which he does not dare to present outside the cyber space.
@bulanik: when ever I have visited in UK I have noticed that there is not that kind of racism as there is in US. In UK racism is more splintered, this way or that way, much more individualistic and among many ethnic groups. You may have bunch of white guys out of whom one is racist but the others are not. Indian guy may hate blacks and black britts may hate all those damn pakis, who in return hate those kebab dealin turks etc. Jews hate some other guys and the irish hate english etc. But in the general culture and in the media color of a person rarely comes to the front: for example, I have never heard or read brittish media come up with the subject of skin color when taking about athletes or media persons, stars etc. Unless, that has been the prescise subject. For example, Frank Bruno, heavyweight boxer, was a britt (and black). Emile Hesky is an english football/soccer player (and black) etc. They never ever mention the color of the man.
In US the color tag is in almost everything: the WHITE basketball player, the BLACK mayor, the BLACK astronaut, the HISPANIC priest, this and that. “The albanian-american so-and-so set the new world record in chess today in Hicksville” etc. Ethnicity comes up always in US media and talk, all the time. It comes out in almost every situation. When I was there back in the 80’s and was hanging out with some black guys, I was always The White guy. Not just a guy. And my friends were always the blacks. They were not seen by the surroundings as Joe, Jack and James. but black guys. Sometimes it is and was pretty annoying.
True, we can not un do the color of our skin, but for me they were Joe, Jack and James, three guys. And while they of course saw me as white, that did not make them uncomfortable. Some blacks had big problems and some whites even bigger ones. and those experiences made me realise the depth of american racism. It is so ingrained into the thinking of so many people that for them racial separation is the natural state of things. They seemed confused why a white guy would even hang out with black guys. Some whites were surprised when I greeted some blacks on the street and the other way around. Genuinely.
“You know that guy?”
“Yeah”
“Where from?”
“Ööh he lives in the same building”
” But DO YOU REALLY KNOW HIM?”
“As well as I know you”
” But do you really know him that well?”
“I think so. Why?”
“For starters, he’s black”
“And?”
” Well you can’t know what he is thinking”
“Well I don’t know what the hell you are thinking most of the time either”
“But you and I are white and we can relate, you are not a black and can not relate to that”
“And you and that guy are both americans and I am not, so for me you are both foreigners”.
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@Bulanik, King, Sam
In terms of Black Americans and other Black brothers and sisters around the world it seems to be that we are the same but different or the same difference doesnt it?
There are many paralells in our lives and quite a few disparities too but, nevertheless, I know that we all have/are often judged by our outward appearance first and foremost.
Sam was right though when he talked about the UK and the other type of ‘infighting’ that goes on there towards ‘foreigners’. Its weird but as time goes on, it is often less about skin colour and more about territory i.e. Northerner vs Southener or Chiat (not sure of spelling) vs Sunni. In the U.K a black british person would generally be more favourable than a black american to a white person on the face it, such is the legacy of history in terms of U.K vs U.S (the feeling is generally that ‘Yanks’ are showoffs!!!!).
My Aunt lives in the U.S and they didnt quite know what to make of her as she wasnt one of the ‘usual’ wave of black immigrants to emigrate to America. People could not initially understand how a woman, born in the caribbean, came to live in England, had this British accent and then settled in the U.S and wasnt Jamaican??
Anyway, IMO experiences may differ but essentially it is all the same – don’t cha think?
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@bulanik: come to think of it, wasn’t the skipper of the ManU firm a black guy back in the day? I think in UK the feeling is that if you are a “britt” and black you are even better than a white yankee 😀 But then again, a cockney and geordie can easily get in to an argument and fight no matter what the skin color.
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@ Sam, sorry I disagreed with your comment. As a Black British woman racism in the UK is very much alive and well. I think that racism where ever you are, either in the US or the UK is similar but it works in different ways. The way it works in UK is that it covert. Therefore, it not shown openly but hidden and coded – This is the key!
Racism affects Black people’s lives in the UK in so many ways from employment, health care, education, mental health, justice system (where BM are inprision at the highest rates any way in the western world) and other areas of life.
In regards to black footballers they might be not referred to by their race but there always this feeling in the back of White people’s minds that they not English because their parents are not from England or ‘Immigrants’. The question is ‘Where are your parents from?
I also like to add that the recent London riots allowed White people to openly show their dislike of black people and culture and David Satrkey comments in regards to the so called ‘violent nature of black culture’ made many of them think that it okay now to be openly hostile towards black people. Many Whites agreed with his comments and many felt /still do feel that their traditional English culture is being destroyed by this so called ‘black culture’. In Britain we don’t have a honest and frank conversation about race instead we have White people talking at Black people about it and Black reacting to it but not setting their own agenda.
In regards to BM dating out in the UK this is a big problem. The affects of BM dating WW is numerous on BW in the UK and is rarely discussed because it has become taboo. Imagine if 55% of white men were dating/marrying BW ( which would not happen by the way!) this would have been front page news in the England. There would be a debate in the media, political arena and social research on how it’s affect WW’s self esteem, confidence and the far reaching implications for English culture/family. However, when it goes to BW nothing is said, no one talks about the rejection, hurt, loneliness, no chance of having a family, and heartbreak this is causing many BW in Britain.
There are many black mothers who feel that they have been rejected in some way by their sons dating WW and the heartbreak they are going through is never talk about. It feels to them that BW are not good enough therefore, she is not good enough.
I also feel that BW in Britain have allow themselves to be sidelined in this society because we never openly talk this issue or other issues which are affecting us for fear of being seen as bitter or miserable. We cannot continue not talking about the affect this is having on us because the future generation of BW in Britain are going to grow-up being rejected by BM who will not date them just because they are Black – This is sad state of affairs and I can’t see how it is going to get better!
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Where’s Menelik when you need him?!
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@ Bulanik
I completely understand the context in which you are coming but please remember the first genration of Caribbean people were subjected to British rule and don’t forget the long history of slavery in those islands.
I’d like to point out that Caribbean people were asked to come to the UK to re-build the country after the war and they were treated as second class citizens. The level of hostile, racist attacks etc was unbearable, many of this generation have gone back to the Caribbean because they could not take living in such a hostile environment -This history is not taught in British schools because like I said the English like to portray themselves as not racists. If you not aware of the sacrifice other have made before you then you remain in ignorance and this what the English are good at – Black people had to physically fight in the streets for people like you or me to be able to walk a London street today without harm. I’d suggest you read the seminal book called ‘Ain’t no Black in the Union Jack’ by Paul Gilroy it’s as relevant today as it was 30 years ago.
The issue of class is always there but the issue of racism is always present in British society but downplay. in regards to numbers of black people compare to the US it true there are not as many but the reason for this is because the British government in the 1970’s after the first wave of people from the Commonwealth stop all non-white immigration into the UK. So this explains the figures plus slavey was not on British soil but they did it in the Caribbean than shipped their riches to Britain.
Our experiences as Black people are different anywhere in the world but the system of white supremacy is the same where ever you go in the Western world.
in regards to BM dating at the rate of 55% in the UK, I think BW are all always blamed for why BM do this or that. It time the fathers of BM showed a more positive image of BW or see them as desirable, this might have a big affect on BM attitudes to BW – Why is this not bought up in the debate??
I’m not putting all the blame on White society but I do think the media in the UK promote more BM/WW relationships and many BM grow up probably thinking this a better relationship to have than with a BW. I think BW in the UK have started to date out more because of the lack of available BM partners and have got tried of waiting – Who can blame them!
I’ve also posted David Starkey’s comments about the recent riots and the link to Black culture on BBC’s Newsnight programme
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@bulanik: One guy I remember from a different angle was Cass Penant, the leader of the West Ham Inner City Firm, one of the most feared football hooligans in UK in late 80’s during the hey days of that phenomena. Now here we have thousands and thousands of hooligans many of whom were racist (at least in medias mind) and their undisputed leader is a black guy 6ft tall with afro.
@ black britt: granted, I was in UK back in the 80’s and 90’s so it has been long time since I’ve been there. I also spent my time in big cities, mainly in London. But what separates the US and UK in racism in my mind is the fact that in US it is in the culture itself where as in UK it is not. In Uk racism was never a official policy as it was in USA up to the 60’s in some parts. It is also good to remember that even after WW2 and the holocaust and all that, during the late 40’s and early 50’s jews were not allowed in many hotels etc. in USA.
Already back in the 80’s you had black actors on brittish tv shows living among normal people just like normal people, occupying any jobs and being lawyers, judges, artists etc. The image they presented to the public was already back then much much different than in US where black guys were lucky if they were cops but usually criminals of some sort and black women usually were prostitutes or poor single moms, or over sexed tarts.
I remember well National Front and all that, and I know there are racists in UK, always has been, but the racism in UK differs from situation in US where the race and ethnicity is in everything. I walked into a book store with couple black friends and they called security almost at once. Why? Because those pretty white girls behind the counter could not understand that a) black guys walked into their store just to look at the books b) they were with me. In US a black man is almost at once a suspect untill he proves himself differently by his actions. Unless he is a big star or something. I did not detect that in UK.
As for David Starkey, guys like him are racists and always have been. They are just so civlized in their ideas and usually do not get caught. But the overwhelming fact is that in UK the problem is that after Thatcher regime, the country was geared back towards the good ole class system. In UK the great divides of the society run trough classes, not so much races. Rich sophisticated black guy feels much more at home in the mansions of kent country side than among the poor white trash of Manchester of Sheffield. Ot is the same among the asian population. They divide themselves trough the lines of rich and poor, and while their upper classes speak fluent queens english and study at Oxford, mingle with their white kinds, the poor segment is pushed to the concrete jungles etc.
And if you really look at the London riots and the rioters, you see all kinds of faces among the rioters, not just poor blacks or immigrants. Theres a lot of white kids there.
I am not denying the racism in UK at all. I know it is there. But it is different. As for the media, the image of an ideal woman as a thin white creature is been pushed here too for decades now. It is universal phenomena. And the reason behind it? Money.
Let me explain. Already back in 1940’s the biggest US advertising companies financed a huge study about consuming. They found out that frustrated people consume the most. So already back then they began to present the ideas which seemed almost achievable but were not for the majority. The happy days style family image in 1950’s was not the realistic norm, it was an illusion, image which made people buy more stuff in order to get that. Now, women are presented an image, actually bombarded and brainwashed, that is not real at all. Yet most of the girls and women try to achieve that, or at least reach for it, and spend billions of pounds, euros and dollars.
One thing I like to say to all women here: there is not a one image of a woman in any magazine, advertisment, fashion catalogue or poster that has not been photoshopped. Not a single one. So all the images you see day in day out are un realistic. All of them. It is good to remember when you look at some commercial images. They are all fake. All of them.
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@proudchocolategirl
I read with interest the fact that you did a Caribbean Lit course (I wish this had been a module on my OU lit degree course 🙂 ) and looked up the book you mentioned “lonely londoners,” by sam selvon. This is definately a book I want to get around to reading and wondered if you could suggest any more – either fiction or non fiction by writers of afro caribbean descent.
Thanks in advance
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@ proudchocolategirl
Thank you for comments. It’s nice to have someone who understands the complexities of being Black and british. I love reading books which document Caribbean story in the UK. If you have the names of any more books please list them.
@ sam
This is a very complex issue and I understand what you are saying. However, I would like to point a few things. First, Black men are twice and sometimes three more likely to be stop and search by the police and are likely to die in police custody (number around 200) – This is a fact.
Second, there has been a massive shift to the right in Britain over the past twenty years and David Cameron has come out against Multi-culturalism. Therefore, the gains made in the 70’s and 80’s are being pull back – This a major set backwards!
Third, Racist attacks are on the rise in the UK and the rise of the National front, now the English Defence League is worrying a lot of Black people because there has been attacks against Black people during the riots.
I also like to mention that the riots started as a result of a unarmed black man, Mark Duggan being shot dead by the police in Tottenham, North London.
Lastly, There was a color bar in England when the first wave of Caribbean [people came to the UK. Landlords had signs in their windows stating ‘No Blacks, No Irish, No Dogs’. Black people had to share rooms or sometimes little cellars under the ground because they could not get anywhere to stay- You can find them in the Notting Hill area of London. That’s why the british government in the 1960’s bought in the Race relations act to outlaw discrimination.
I think I said enough on the topic, I hope that what I have said open people’s eyes to another view Black experience in the West.
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Small Island by Andrea Levy is a good one. Fiction. It is also hilarious.
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ok. This subject has been beaten to death and frankly I don’t who you marry it would make a difference if they were green. The racism that supposedly comes from the white populous in America might have been here in the past but as for now it is a bunch of nonsense. Now of course you being the liberal that you are who wrote this will pick my piece here apart but this isn’t for you it is for those who made comment. look if you ever tried as a white male to be racists in this country at this time you would be castrated however if you are black and make a racial comment that is ok because you have been oppressed for supposedly all your life. The past is the past it is time to forgive it. Notice I didn’t say forget it. ok me personally and a lot of men who are white that I know just don’t find black women attractive (this doesn’t mean necessarily their outward appearance). To be honest with you I don’t even approached black women they don’t have anything that I desire. Now this is not to say that they are not beautiful or have a lot to offer I am just not interested. But then there are some white girls I would not approach as well. Now of course this is going to destroyed I can already here the comments that will fly with this post. But you got my answer through experience not opinion. I hope you all have a wonderful,Healthy,Happy Life with whomever you marry.
By the way see if you can comment on this post with out saying the word ignorant or racists I bet you it will be hard but true.
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@black brit: “Second, there has been a massive shift to the right in Britain over the past twenty years and David Cameron has come out against Multi-culturalism. Therefore, the gains made in the 70′s and 80′s are being pull back – This a major set backwards! ”
That is what I was affraid of has happened over there since I visited the place last time. That is damn shame.
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@Michael
‘Now of course you being the liberal that you are who wrote this will pick my piece here apart’
This is a forum where people post things to engage, debate and discuss issues etc and sometimes, for the less informed amongst us, they might actually learn something!
Interestingly you start and end your post talking about the fact that this discussion has been done to death and you also state within the post that people will be with/marry/whatever whoever they want regardless of colour. You then talk about how it is if a WM even ‘tried to be racist’ that they would be ‘castrated’ giving the comparison that it is ‘OK’ for Black people to be racist.
You then dare people to comment on your post without saying the word ‘ignorant’ or racist’. Well I wont disappoint you there because from the sounds of your post, you will have been called this many times and you have still not learned from these comments. What I do wonder though Michael, do you think these are the views of an open minded, educated, informed individual?
What your comments reflect to me Michael is someone who has no personal knowledge of Black People let alone Black Women where you you felt it so pertinent to advise us of your personal preference and the fact that you personally wouldnt go out with a black woman. I dont wish to continue in any debate with you – (I’m sure you will be relieved to hear this as strangely, you seem to be dreading any responses to your posts) nevertheless, these are my thoughts on your comments.
As you have appointed yourself the spokesperson for the majority of WM explain why there are WM who often post of various Abagond threads who say they find it hard to meet BW who are open to dating WM. I can’t stress enough that most BW are discerning enough not to pursue WM like you in the first place – no offence of course but you’re not my type. Also you do not come across as an enlightened, worldly or knowledgeable man and I prefer to talk to people on my intellectual level. I’m sure you understand :-).
From your post perhaps you fear you are in danger of being beseiged by BW and that you need to make it clear what your stance is. Indeed, if you look at some of the posts on both this subject and others you will see that a significant majority of the BW who have ended up in interacial relationships have not gone out to seek WM in particular but have merely met/liked/fallen in love with an individual first and foremost. In other words, their skin colour is not the initial draw.
I hope you all have a wonderful,Healthy,Happy Life with whomever you marry.
I will and i’m sure there’s hope for you too 😉
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@ Michael
But then you go and say something rather odd.
So now, all Black women fit into one massive group of sameness and you find NONE of them attractive at all, even the ones you have never seen, much less met. You have an omniscient power of understanding that allows you to know that there aren’t ANY that have anything to offer you. Now, that’s fine in the sense that nobody really cares if you personally like Black women or not, but at least understand that when you make an all-encompassing statement like that about people who you have never seen or met, that what you are engaging in is the very definition of PREJUDICE — lumping people into a certain pre-judged category and then making pronouncements about the entire category, rather than individuals.
Now, if you had said that you have not been attracted the Black women that you’ve met so far, well OK, that’s legitimate. But making ANY blanket assumption about Black women is like saying that ALL of the paintings in a given museum are ugly, even though you’ve never been past the lobby. It would be like me saying that I’m not attracted to ANY of the women in Romania. Have I seen ALL the women in Romania?
Open your eyes to the fact that making definitive statements in such cases is foolish. Again, I don’t care what women you fancy, but just don’t try to pretend that there isn’t a level of prejudging (yes, prejudice) involved when your criteria excludes entire races, continents, or nations as if all the people within those divisions are all the same. That is a lie.
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I was thinking about the OP today and what it would be like to be married to a black woman and have a mixed child.
If i’m being totally honest, I would be scared that my child would grow up to resent me the way that POC seem to resent whites. Any mixed race people care to comment on whether or not this is a valid concern?
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‘If i’m being totally honest, I would be scared that my child would grow up to resent me the way that POC seem to resent whites’
@jas0nburns
You feel that POC resent WP? When you make statements like that and speak on behalf of POC without qualifying this with the majority, what realistically are your expectations? Stop with the assumptions and stereotying and for the record, it is behaviours and attitudes like this that are imposed on people, including those from an IR background that will bring forth any issues for the said individual.
I gather that you are not currently, nor potentially in the future intending to embark on an IR relationship? Strange, you seem preoccupied with the subject judging from this and your previous posts…… Its almost like me going on a forum promoting, I dunno….topless modelling. It doesnt interest me, its not a part of my life, it doesnt involve me therefore I wouldnt feel compelled to engage in discussion about it as I dont have an opinion about it either way.
I think you are BW curious jas0nburns – go on, admit 🙂
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The racism that supposedly comes from the white populous in America might have been here in the past but as for now it is a bunch of nonsense.
How about the whites who are actually functionally literate, maybe they are the racists?
Now of course you being the liberal that you are who wrote this will pick my piece here apart but this isn’t for you it is for those who made comment.
Who are you actually referring to, or do you know? What does one’s political affiliation or ideology have to do with getting a leg over?
ok me personally and a lot of men who are white that I know just don’t find black women attractive (this doesn’t mean necessarily their outward appearance).
I’m with you. I do not find white men in general attractive, and I mean their outward appearance. One has to be in lust initially before embarking on a full blown relationship. It’s like trying on a pair of expensive shoes before purchasing them. If the shoe don’t fit, don’t buy it in other words. If the lust isn’t there, then neither am I. I’ll be your friend though!
To be honest with you I don’t even approached black women they don’t have anything that I desire.
I don’t approach white men either unless they are like Donald Trump, Warren Buffet or some similiarily attributed white man. Preferably one with a heart problem.
Now of course this is going to destroyed I can already here the comments that will fly with this post. But you got my answer through experience not opinion.
No really, I think your wonderful!
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Micheal [sic] wrote: “To be honest with you I don’t even approached black women they don’t have anything that I desire.”
Nothing unusual about that, as it would be the same for the overwhelming majority of gay men. Thanks for being honest, “Micheal”.
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It is Michael’s choice. I have no problem with prejudice. We all have our own prejudices. What I cannot bear is racism – when that prejudice turns into something vicious.
I am not in the least bit bother that Michael does not find Black women attractive. I don’t think any one should be offended by that. It is his choice. As long as he does not go about denigrating black women or denying them their rights or equal opportunities, then his prejudice is fine by me.
We have to live and let live. Most white men will marry white women. Most white men are probably like Michael. Why should that bother us? There are some people in this world who do not have that prejudice and for that may their lives be the richer for it.
Someone also mentioned hostility from black people towards white folks. I can understand why you may think this to be so. We do still feel a sense of anger (and rightly so) for the past and continued injustice. However, this feeling only ever surfaces when we are faced yet again with unfairness and disrespect. Black people may be suspicious of white people and why not when experience tells them that they should be on their guard. However, for my part, I treat everyone with respect regardless of colour. Even though I may be on my guard, I will not be hostile unless hostility is warranted. I also very much doubt your flesh and blood (a mixed race child) would be hostile towards you for no reason other than you are white. I find that very hard to imagine. Hopefully you would not be racist towards your own flesh and you would bring up that child to appreciate his white and black heritage. I should imagine that child would be much more tolerant.
As for racism in the UK vs the US. Very complex issue. Racism exists on both sides of the pond. The environment is very different but racism is felt in much the same way. In some respects, the US openly racist environment has its advantages – you know where you stand kinda thing plus their is much stronger black identity in the US. In the UK, the drive to make everyone British has enabled all races to look to a common identity and there is none of that strong sense of segregation. However, the downside is a loose sense of black identity. Indeed, there is little cohesion amongst blacks in the UK. It is very much a class thing.
By the way, re. the riots (or should I say looting), I do not think this had much to do with race. Whites, blacks, asians, you name it were having a field day. This was no black protest against injustice.
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I must confess to being bemused by the comments of people like the ones I most recently commented on. Do you honestly think they are bringing something constructive to the discussion with your base, biased and inexperienced comments? Michael even talks about the fact that none of his friends would contemplate IR dating yet states ‘But you got my answer through experience not opinion’. What experience? The nameless faceless man down the road? The one in the Chip shop or the Barber who cuts your mullet? Of course their worldy and knowledgeable information that they impart MUST and will shape every aspect of your thinking. I bet you go to them for financial and career advice too!!!!!
To be honest, men of this ilk IMO are generally struggling in their everyday life to ‘fit in’ and can’t contemplate anything different – its just too scary and complex for them to consider. Instead, they are happy to submerge themself in their colourless little worlds but feel empowered when they can have a ‘voice’ albeit in the annonymity of cyberspace. These are people who have their own issues in the first place so it is extremely fortunate that they dont have an interest in BW. TBH, I would feel sorry for any woman who gets snared by these frightened indivduals.
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“I must confess to being bemused by the comments of people like the ones I most recently commented on. Do you honestly think they are bringing something constructive to the discussion with your base, biased and inexperienced comments?”
So, usually when i comment here i’m attempting to give readers an honest look into a white male mindset. My thinking is that even if i’m totally off base as I may be here, it might still provide some insight onto how I and by extension many white americans think and feel. Most WP who comment on these blogs fall into 2 categories imo.
A) those who recite anti-racism talking points in the hopes of earning cookies.
B) those who just come here to spew tired nonsense like Michael here.
If the topic of conversation is “why so few WM marry BW” than I think it might be helpful for WP to come on here and try to be as straightforward about that as possible without worrying about how that makes us look. If I’m wrong about POC resenting WP that’s fine, i can be wrong. But it most definitely is a common enough reason that WM don’t want to have kids with WOC and that makes it relevant. Perceptions matter, even erroneous ones. What is racism without perception?
Also Demerera, I did date a few BW when I was single. Rest assured my curiosity was satisfied and then some 😉
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‘Also Demerera, I did date a few BW when I was single. Rest assured my curiosity was satisfied and then some ;)’
How disappointing then that as you have been up close and personal so to speak with BW, that you still include them in your assertion when you say that POC resent white people? Are you saying then Jas0nburns that you continually made poor choices in terms of the BW you dated and that your opinion stems from this? Of course, if this was your misfortune and bad luck, you would only be half to blame.
Re your query about people of mixed race: I come from a long line of mixed people but to be honest, I have never referred to myself in this way. In a healthy nurturing environment, every child has the chance to dispense with the shackles (whatever they may be and however they have manifested themself) and go out and realise their goals. I think that being mixed can give you the opportunity to have the best of both worlds/cultures and give you an even broader and more open view of life however, again if the foundations in your life have been less than strong growing up and you are not at least culturally aware, then it can and will be detrimental to you but I must stress Jas0nburns that it is not necessarily going to be that they grow up to resent whites. It is often the ‘blackness’ in mixed people that can feel like a hindrance but as I said previously, that is down to upbringing/environment and being taught cultural awareness.
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@jason: Ok I’m goin to be honest here: I was once head over heels with one black american woman whom I still consider the most beautiful woman I have ever seen, met or what ever. And I mean physically and spiritually. But she did not find me her cup of tea and nothing came out of it.
That experience did not turn me a racist nor it did not made me say stuff like “BW are blablabla”, “BW say WM blablabla” because I did not get offended at all. I did not get hurt. I was not broken. I was not humiliated. I was not ridiculed. My masculinity was not castrated. Even back then I was grown up enough to undestand that sometimes boys and girls, men and women do not get together. It is just life.
That being said, I have been married, I have kids, I have been with enough women, I have been dumped, I have dumped women, I’ve cried after some, some have cried after me. I have had great sex with women, some have had great sex with me, some have had terrible sex with me as I have had with some women, and so on. Most of my ex girlfriends are ok with me and some even call me every now and then just to say hello and change news. All that is normal. All that is called Life.
If I met a black woman whom I would love and she would love me, I’d marry her in flat second. But the point is not her color but She herself, all that she is. I love the individual, the person, not her ethnicity or skin color. If she happen to be black, no problem.
As for the BW/POC bashing WM, uuh. C’mon. If somebody says to me that white men are such dicks, I don’t take it personally. I am not a dick. If somebody says to me how she/he hates whites, I try to understand what the speaker is actually saying. Why? Because she/he is talking to me, she/he does not mean all of whites. After all, she/he is speaking to me, telling me something, instead of punching my face in. If that would be meant universally, I bet she/he would not be saying a word for me, a white guy. Don’t be so hyper sensitive, man.
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People here have made this too complicated. “Why do so few white men marry black women?”
1. Because white men find white women to be, on average, much better looking. (I’ve further broken it down in a previous posting above, but this is what it all comes down to for most of us.)
2. Because most white men don’t want black kids. We want our kids to be white like us.
3. Because most white men don’t want to marry into African American culture, with all of its problems and lengthy baggage train.
Sure there are rare exceptions, but in the main, It’s really this simple. To put this another way, if you were a white man, would you want to look past all of the white women available to you to date a black woman?
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White women certainly are not attractive because of their Whiteness. The truth is most White women are quite plain to average. If that were not the case then there would be no reason for the word ‘beautiful’ in our vocabulary. The same goes for all races.
Nothing special, sorry
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@StandardNYCWhiteMan
Point 1 is understandably. It is your preference.
Surely point number 2 implies racism. Why would having a black child be such a bother? If the possibility of having black kids put you off being with a black woman then that speaks volumes. It seems to go beyond a preference for white women and just abhorrence of being associated with anything black.
With point number 3, what is this baggage that most African-American women carry?
Your last sentence again displays underlying racism and not just plain preference. You are saying that black women are secondary to white women. You are saying that they do not even merit consideration as individuals. They ought to be something of a last resort – after all the available white women have been considered.
You prefer white women, fine. However, to say that regardless of her personality or looks (or whatever) you would simply not consider a black woman worthy. You would rather date or marry a white woman of lesser virtue just because she is white? I would have thought that preference would proceed as thus – with a white woman and black woman of equal everything, you would prefer a white woman. I understand but to say all white women to you are better than all black women is rather questionable.
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Maureen:
Regarding point 2, most fathers (whatever their ethnicity, provided it is not one that they are ashamed of) want children who look like them, and that includes having similar coloration. If I have white skin and “white peoples hair”, then I’m going to want a child who also has white skin and other similar features. Not an exact copy, of course, but someone who looks like me or my kin. Sociobiology 101. There is simply no reason for a white man to prefer black traits over his own with respect to his children.
Regarding point 3 and the “baggage train”, just reread this enormous thread. Marry a white woman, white man, and all these racial issues never arise in your personal life. Marry and procreate with a black woman, and there they are — all of them. Discussions of skin tone, the chemistry and expense of making one’s hair look white, discussions of slavery, the validity of stereotypes, everything is there in your home, every minute of every hour of every day. Most of us white men would rather avoid all of this by going with the women we like best: white women.
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@ StandardNYCWhiteMan
Well, that’s a fair point. But does it bother you that so many in the younger generations no longer have those kind of cultural hang-ups, or color-coded preferences? (Of course, I mean further to the West, not in the provincial, and racially backward East Coast)
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Having heard from 3 WM from the U.S who have been vocal about their opinions about IR dating whilst maintaining they are speaking, for the most part, for all their fellow men, do we think there is some societal element that prevails more predominantly in America than anywhere else that may influence this mindset? We constantly hear no matter how attractive said female is, the fact that she is Black is a no no. We already know that ‘other’ WM around the world do not have the same fears/hang ups/issues as White American men seem to, certainly not on such a large scale as is constantly being alluded to here.
On the surface I do understand @StandardNYCWhiteMan desire to have a child who resembles him in every (I just hope that your partner can trace her family lineage back and does not have some strong latent ‘ethnic’ genes, particularly as you make the point that this is ‘provided it is not one that they are ashamed of’ and many WP who do have what they feel are less than desireable genes often do mask and hide this where they can).
At the end of the day it is all down to personal like/preference etc and I do take a valid point from Maureen where she says that as long as these men are not denigrating BW to assert their preference then thats what it is, their personal preference. I do however find some of the generalisations about BP at times disturbing and it is these types of myths/stereotypes that I wish to dispel.
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@ Demerera
Actually there is a second point to be made and that is one of assumptive pre-judgement (as I have said above)
It is both ridiculous and impossible for me to say that I don’t like any of the homes in the state of California, mostly because I have not seen even 1% of the homes in California. Such a statement can only be made, if I have predetermined not to like them beforehand, for my own arbitrary reasons. One cannot really like or dislike something that they have no knowledge of. So it’s not really about preference, but prejudice.
This is different than saying, “I don’t like red cars” because, although red cars come in all shapes and sizes, the common thread is that they are all red. But try doing that with Black women. What exactly do they ALL have in common? Nothing.
Backward racial thinkers like StandardNYCWhiteMan think that there really is an “African-American culture” that we all belong to, not realizing that there are many Black cultures, most of which he has been totally blind to. When he talks about African-American culture, he is referring to the limited stereotypes that he’s familiar with and has been too lazy to go beyond—the usual, ebonics, ghetto culture, crime, rap music, etc.—He knows nothing of refined Black cultures that have been around for over a century, and he knows nothing of the shared pluralistic cultures where Blacks simply fit in with Asians, Hispanics, and Whites, in common neighborhoods, sharing common goals and values.
But again, part of this is because New York is like stepping back into the Paleolithic when it comes to race. One is to a large degree the product of his environment.
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Hi King
From what I have read of your posts they are always well reasoned and insightful and encourage those who are open minded enough to ‘think’ about things.
There comes a point however, and I am loathe to labour the point with people like StandardNYCWhiteMan which is why my previous post is more an open question to all others. I feel with people like this, its almost like having to repeat yourself to an errant toddler where you are constantly banging your head against a brick wall until they learn. I assume that they come on to a forum such as this because they have a genuine desire to learn something – as stated by Jas0nburns on such matters but, you are right in that some people are happy to stick with tunnel vision and limited stereotypes and are too lazy to go beyond this. It is this that offends my sensibilities more than anything and I am so tired of the propaganda that is spread.
Re: your comments about New York, I thought it was a melting pot of cultures and more progressive in terms of race and race relations that other states in the U.S – Is this not the case? I am on a promise from my hubby at the moment cos I want to go there for my 40th birthday which is still a few years away yet. Just thought I’d give him the heads up so to speak so’s he can save up for it 🙂
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Bulanik says:-
‘This kind of prejudice makes whiteness The Norm, and blackness, The Deviation.
Thinking beyond that polarity must be hard work for a lazy mind….’
😉
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What goes on in the U.N. Building is pretty much what goes go in the rest of New York. There are a lot of different kinds of people represented there, but mostly all of them stuck in their own ethnic ghettos, and mindsets. New York is not a mixing of culture, so much as it is a patchwork quilt. The many cultures are squeezed into the same relative areas, but each it’s own distinct patch, unaffected by the other patches of color that surround it.
However, it’s fine to visit. You don’t really get a feel for the backwardness of the place until you’ve been there for a few weeks, or unless you ask too many questions 🙂
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@standardNYCwhiteman:
“To put this another way, if you were a white man, would you want to look past all of the white women available to you to date a black woman?”
Ööh… Yep. If she is the right one.
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@ Bulanik
Well, of course, some people are dating interracially almost everywhere, but the general attitudes about it are not nearly as open as would be in San Francisco, Los Angeles, San Diego, or even Las Vegas but certainly nothing like London, Rio, or Paris.
So, there are certainly more interracial couples than would be in say… Fargo North Dakota, but definitely not as many as one would expect, judging by the diversity of people who reside there,
Lets just say that StandardNYCWhiteMan is aptly named.
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@standardNYCwhiteman:
“To put this another way, if you were a white man, would you want to look past all of the white women available to you to date a black woman?”
Uh huh. Spoken like a true white racialist…or a Man of Color who desperately wants to keep Black women from dating ‘out’. Either way, you really have no authority to speak to the inner desires of millions upon millions of other individuals. People’s desires/attractions/wants and what they actually end up with aren’t necessarily one and the same.
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@dememera
So I made a racially insensitive comment then? I was over generalizing to say that POC resent WP? You don’t resent WP? You don’t resent the fact that I as a white male would have an easier time finding a job than a black male with similar education and experience even if I had a felony conviction and he didn’t? I sure as hell would resent that. This blog is chok full o’ examples of resentment towards Whites, whiteness, and white people. Notice I never said that resentment wasn’t justified. I imagine that if I were black, I would resent white people. If you’re telling me that I wouldn’t, I find that quite mystifying. What’s your secret?
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Maureen says,
Maureen
@StandardNYCWhiteMan
Point 1 is understandably. It is your preference.
Surely point number 2 implies racism. Why would having a black child be such a bother? If the possibility of having black kids put you off being with a black woman then that speaks volumes. It seems to go beyond a preference for white women and just abhorrence of being associated with anything black.
With point number 3, what is this baggage that most African-American women carry?
Your last sentence again displays underlying racism and not just plain preference. You are saying that black women are secondary to white women. You are saying that they do not even merit consideration as individuals. They ought to be something of a last resort – after all the available white women have been considered.
You prefer white women, fine. However, to say that regardless of her personality or looks (or whatever) you would simply not consider a black woman worthy. You would rather date or marry a white woman of lesser virtue just because she is white? I would have thought that preference would proceed as thus – with a white woman and black woman of equal everything, you would prefer a white woman. I understand but to say all white women to you are better than all black women is rather questionable.
laromana says,
Maureen,
Thanks for fleshing out StandardNYCWhiteMan’s ANTI-BW HATE disguised as a so called “preference” for WW.
I’ve always found it fascinating that American WM, like StandardNYCWhiteMan, who profess a “preference for WW” and are quick to trash the humanity, dignity, and femininity of ALL BW, remain open to having relationships (dating or marriage) with ALL NON-BW.
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@ Jas0nburns
I always explain it like this – You can have a problem the White-favoring system without necessarily having a problem with individual White people.
In other words, I can complain about the fact that you might have an easier time finding a job than me (all things being equal) but that doesn’t mean that I have a problem with you *personally.*
I have have always resented the systems of racial injustice – not just in relation to Blacks but to everyone. Yet that doesn’t stop me from having White friends who I hang out with and care about. Neither do I expect my friends to be perfect, and pure of all prejudice, because I know that I am not so myself. If a Wjite friend offends me in some way, then I talk to them about it and we fix it and move on. I don’t seethe in resentment and say, “I should have known not to associate with the White devils!”
I do not resent individual White people unless they give me a direct reason to resent them – the same rule as with Black people.
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‘If you’re telling me that I wouldn’t, I find that quite mystifying. What’s your secret?’
There’s no secret Jas0nburns but the reality is that you are as you say ‘generalizing’ and making assumptions. Its difficult at times to get past that and answer any questions your post (IMO) as to be honest, you come across as jaundiced in your view points but and it is a big BUT, my sense of you has only been developed over these most recent posts. To be fair you may be genuine but these boring stereotypes and myths that you put across from the so called perspective of a WM is tedious, particularly when they seem to have been addressed so many times on here yet all you notice is the resentment that you say pervades throughout these post from black to white .
As has been said previously, I too abhor institutionlised racism but at ground level from individual to individual I do not have a problem with an person just because they are say white. I dont find myself doing like you do and making assumptions about them based on their colour or ‘tagging’ them like you have potentially with what you have heard other WP say about black people. I would say Jas0nburns that overwhelmingly I am set and focused on who I am and what I am doing at to be honest, I do not find myself disadvantaged in comparison to my immediate peers. If someone regardless of colour, social status etc is rude to me or is off in anyway consistently, then yes this will lead to resentment on my part but it is that individual who would p*ss me off – I wouldnt hold them up as ambassadors of their particular race though and hold everyone of that race responsible.
Others on here explain it far better than I can perhaps but hopefully you get the drift.
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For some reason I always see some fatass super old average white guy average job with a super super fine black chick with a super nice body. I know where I live the population of blacks are way lower but it seems like black women are desperate to get with white men like the white guy could be way more poor and way more ugly compared to another race thats skinnier or more athletic looking and a higher paying job.
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@rafael: Yo, man! I see you have tipped your cap to the left. So you have adopted the style from black ghetto culture, eh? Was that a sign of The People or Nation in the great divide in gangaworld? I forgot. Crip Nation?? Can you clarify?
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I think we’ve beaten this topic to death. Perhaps we should next discuss “Why so few black women marry east asian men.”
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StandardNYCWhiteMan says
“I think we’ve beaten this topic to death. Perhaps we should next discuss “Why so few black women marry east asian men.”
I think there is already a thread with this topic or a subject similar. Incidentally, you’ve made your stance clear on how you feel about BW, I am confused by your need to still discuss this topic, particularly as you have made is so patently clear that your viewpoint is not from personal experience but merely from conjecture. What on earth do you think you could contribute to a conversation where you are not one of the minority groups represented?
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No matter how eloquent or simple your speech is, no matter how slow or how much knowledge you think you have, no matter how hateful or loving you think you are . . . if you do not have a genuine respect for all races of people that God made for His purpose, and He did not make junk, you are blocking, and simply not ready! That is why this hub seems to be going around in circles, not much being accomplished, except learning about the good, bad, ugly, strange, and unbelievable characters of each other. This subject is not a problem, it is a query. Nobody is obligated to date or marry anyone. Who cares? Issues could rest if people would zip their lips, close their legs, hike their pants, and have sex after marriage to womever they find marriageable, and the rest can continue their discussion at the devil’s gossip fense.
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@StandardNYCWhiteMan:
According to some articles I have read after googling, Asian men are not exactly thrilled about the constantly rising marriages between WMs and their women. What are your suggestions for helping to please your neighbors? Just a thought question. Just as you do not desire others moving in your race, most black women and other races do not want you either. I cannot lower my standards by saying paragraphs of demeaning things to you that are not necessary and won’t amount to anything useful. The way some WF are flocking after BMs, you have enough to work with without your bitter, twisted statements about black women. I say this because I know you do not want BMs with WFs. We can all enter the Kingdom with outer ugliness, but it is inner ugliness that God abhors. I do not care how few WMs and BFs get married, nor do I care how many. It’s not important. What they do is their business.
In conclusion, I think many of the groups do not marry because they are not attracted to one another. Some marry because they are attracted. Your and my opinions get attention, but who will govern their lives after them? If you and I would take care of our personal problems, which are many, we would contribute much to society.
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@Mike: You said,
“I am Filipino and I do want to answer this question. Whites are not all racist, only some of them, same does apply to every race in the world. You know, racism would only stop if we would have the ability to understand our similarities and differences, the ability to give mutual respect and the ability to not have a generalized mind. I respect every person out there and I am against racism! Peace!”
seems to me that even Asians back up whites in agreeing that all whites are not racist, and that every single culture in the world is racist at one another. And this does include blacks.”
Well said!
@Anyone: I have read racist comments from mostly black and white males exchanging insults about lack of intelligence, lower class, little private parts. This kind of exchange is childish, ridiculous, and wasteful. How about a measure of intelligence here?
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@Rafael Green: There is enough in the world that I or anyone else has not seen to make another world. I have never seen a large number of WM/BW relationships, but the WMs in the ones I have seen were decent, not slobs. I have noticed that many WFs often choose sociably unacceptable black guys. Some choose decent BMs.
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@M L:
All of your talk aout being a white guy married to an African girl, black, beautiful skin, your son, skiing, and the works! It sounds fabricated. Something is just not right about your claims. Your description of her was questionable. You must have been dreaming. I think you just wanted to get reactions from commenters. Well, here is mine.
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I cannot remember the commenter, but she mentioned that black girls have too much drama with their hair, that they braid, sew in hair and other FAKE things that black woemn do. Well, let me list some FAKE things that whites, blacks and other races do:
finger and toenails, nail polish, glue-in and braided hair, wigs, various hair extensions, perms, eye lashes, brows, topees, colored contact lenses, body piercings and tatoos, breast pads, breast implants, thigh and butt pads and implants, nose jobs, lip jobs, face lift, accents, identities, characters, hair colors, race, teeth, sex toys, ht. adjustments, breast lifts, any unnatural lightening or darkening of the skinmoles, and many, many other fake things. Who is guilty of fake things? Good answer!
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You forgot dentures.
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It’s not just about black women and the “fake” stuff. From my view point there are two problems:
1. Looks untidy and unkempt. Typically poor quality and worn in an unattractive manner (at least to my eyes). Some of these styles are not doing our women any favours. I certainly would not hire someone with some of these hairstyles I see black women sporting. As for the fake eyelashes, nails, etc. many black women wear them in an outrageous manner. You can see the gunk on glue or whatever that stuff is on the eyelashes and the eyelashes tend to be much longer than necessary. As for the fake nails…
I think the point was about appearance not so much that they wear these things but rather the manner in which they wear them.
2. More importantly, I believe (just my belief) that there is something more insidious about a black woman wanting to sport long straight European type hair versus a white woman wanting to tan. White women have not been brainwashed into thinking that the standard of beauty is white. So their desire to tan is not rooted in a desire to appear more black. However, with all this straight flowing long locks and skin bleaching appears to be rooted in a desire to reach the standard of white beauty.
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I’m as white as it gets and I like dark chocolate black women. I would marry one and have a child with her.
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For some reason the aggression of the “black woman” has come under fire far to much.This does not mean that we are all angry with white men. As a matter of fact, I find the white man quite attractive and have dated a few. Admittedly whenever it came down to intimacy the taboo of ‘What I am doing will go no farther than a one night stand,’ stops me from going there. I am aggressive in the bedroom…when the feeling is there but not on a daily bases. To those who believe being ghetto/black makes us any less submissive in a relationship is definitely a fallacy. I would love to have a “DIE-HARD, STRONG MAN,” regardless of his nationality. You just have to be bold enough to take the lead and you would be surprised with the reception.
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Things like this and the comments posted are why we suffer so much nowadays…human beings can’t even appreciate each other for just that- being a human. As previously mentioned in other comments; if people would focus on an individual for the character they hold then love would be smooth-sailing however what we encounter are lude, time-wasting ideals that harm generation after generation of human beings in more ways than one. I realize that our kind probably has a very long way to go before we can experience that peaceful Utopia that all the hippies dreamed of. Now it seems destruction is latest trending topic! If the world is trully to end in 2012, the end of times should have came alot sooner. IJS – we don’t deserve anything but the eternal void- we are shit and no one can say any different, I don’t care how good you think you are, every last one of us should have never been created. I used to have hope, but just to look at the bullcrap that is the human condition in some of these comments, I feel like ” God ! We’re not worth it ! None of us ! No matter what race,sex, religious affiliation, or over all up bringing- the evil is still there and we should not exist, no one even appreciates what they are and what they were supposed to be here for- Love and all I see is Hate everywhere!”
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@Herneith: Yes, I forgot dentures!
@Maureen: I do get your point and agree with most; however, black women are not as defined as you may think. Black women come in colors from white to jet black. Black women have hair colors from white, blonde, to jet black. Black women have hair textures from Europeanlike to very kinky. Most black women/people are mixed with another race or several. Black people , especially women, like to express their variety. It is not about trying to be white. It’s about liking what you see. When I put on my Japanese kimono, I am not trying to be Japanese, I just love kimonos! Now, some blacks do want to be white, and some whites want to be black. I really do not care to make it my worry. They will figure out who they are one day. God made both races, and they are both acceptable. It is OK to like something about another race!
Concerning neatness of hair, yes, some hairstyles are ridiculous, but what can we do about people liking what they like? Blacks do not want to live up to white’s expectations, and whites do not want to live up to black’s expectations. So, we will both be ourselves and not worry. We need to learn to respect differences. Unkempt or dirty hair is another story. Everyone should maintain cleanliness! You are so right.
@Lucia: Your points are well taken, and you are so right. Even though there is a lot of negative talk on this thread, at least people are expressing their feelings. If they are racists, I would rather hear the truth than lies. Solving problems come after hearing people out. Rome was not built overnight, and racism and other hatred will not end totally before Jesus comes. However, we can start a little at a time to mend some of our ugly ways.
Human beings are ridiculous, and we are not worthy of anything God has given us. True! BUT, HE alone is the only ONE who can cleanse us from this unrighteousness, and I am so glad that He forgives. Hang in there and keep a prayer for your fellow man because all of us are as filthy rags, and God has not given up on us yet. We must not give up on each other. Much peace to you.
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For those who speak apon the various styles of “doo” the black woman wears,
It amazes me how we as black women are judged by the style of dress, hair style, attitude we ‘wear,’ however in this day and age we are not the only race who does. I have witness many races wear vintage, weave, etc. None of these define who we are as people. It’s just an expression, nothing more or less.
It amazed me when I decided to test this theory by putting a weave in my hair (to see what kind of response I would get from the white community.) It resulted in more attention from white males and surprisingly more positive attention from my own race of men. Hmmm…someone tell me why this is? Is it more acceptible that I alter my appearance in order to be accepted for who I am or remain in the realm of the ‘ghetto/person’ and run with the ‘oh, naturale?’
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M. L.: Did it take that much writing to tell a lie? Educated? You need to proof and correct a thousand errors! You do not know anything about black women, and your statements prove it. You are funny, I must say.
If you are telling the truth, get a divorce. You are not ready for marriage. LOL!
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There is not anything wrong with a natural appearance. It is what God gave us, and he does not make junk or mistakes. Most women use something to alter their natural appearance–makeup, wigs, hair extensions, and more. This is their business, but natural is a matter of preference.
I am not sure what “ghetto” means, but if it is a loud-mouth, wild-acting person, I have seen those women and men in all races.
The white and black races have serious problems. They are the main races on the face of the earth that do not know how to respect each other. It is shameful. One woman has breast implants, and another has weave in hair–both are fake. But that’s their business.
Speaking of nastiness, I have seen many nasty, lice-infested white people and many nasty tick-infested black people. Any race can get nasty just as any can get clean. Oily, nasty, smelly blonde hair or dirty, nappy, dry hair are both unattractive. I have seen them many times. Who’s to talk? Filth is not a condition that only blacks endure. Please visit more disadvantaged people and help them so you can learn how to love people who are in need. Depression causes some people to neglect themselves. Show a little love, and maybe you can make a didfference in someone’s life, instead of talking negatively as if you are better. You are not. You are worse because you saw a need and did nothing about it except criticize.
I was in a fast food restaurant once and saw a worker do some unclean things and did not wash her hands. She was dirty and very tacky. I refused the food that she prepared and ask for my money back without making a scene. I spoke with the manager and told her that she was responsible for the girl working like that. She needed her job, I said, but you should have rules and consequences in place for anyone working in this restaurant. You know her better than I. Please ask her to bathe and wash her hair, also, wash and sanitize as necessary while working with food.
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Darkbeauty I am a bit confused as to why you think au naturel means ghetto. Our natural hair looks ghetto? I think natural hair looks much more sophisticated that those cheap poorly done weaves and wigs that many black women wear.
Indeed, women of all races wear fake this and fake that. However, it is a concern when the fake thing is a bid to look more like a particular race. Fake boobs? Well all women have boobs. Boobs are part of being a woman. Fake nails, again … long straight hair? Not a ‘normal’ feature of black women. These long straight flowing weaves always look odd.
Do you know that now many white people think that we black women do not actually have hair and that all of us wear wigs or weaves. I always get asked whether my hair is my real hair.
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“Why So Few White Men Marry Black Women”
What’s going on? I did not know that black women were waiting in line to marry white men. Most black women prefer black men. Yes, someone said there was a shortage, but I cannot tell. White men have issues with black women, and black women have issues with white men. Why is it important?
Many white men are flocking to Asian women because they find them more attrative, and their white women are up in a row about it. I think white men have more problems to solve with their own women than to be wondering if black women know why they do not marry them. I have not heard any black women complain.
Poll black women and ask them about the propositions they get from white men. You would be surprised. Most white men appear to be racist, yet, many are sneaky and seek black women if only for sex. Most black women turn them down. They do not trust them because of their racism, habit of stereotyping and history with black women. Anyone with common sense knows that all black women do not behave or think alike. To think so shows a lot of ignorance. People like this need to remain on the ignorant side of their fence and don’t let black women be their concern. Black women are not putting up signs for white husbands.
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Orchid’s post about how people couldn’t accept MJ as Black so they made him White – OK, the reason people started calling him white was because he had an operation and his skin was lighter, and people gave him ALL KINDS of grief for that! How can you say he was more accepted as being White? Thats one of the main jokes you’d hear about Michael, about how “white” he was!
and second of all, I think obtuse generalizations about white or black people’s dating habits are kind of annoying.. I would love to date a Black girl, or a White girl, or an Asian girl, or a Latina girl, or any other race, if I met them and we got along and had a good time and they had a vibrant personality and if I were attracted to them and could have a good conversation with them. Maybe some study at Columbia says something different, I don’t care, because there are SOOO many different opions about race and dating, and I for one am a White male who would NOT discriminate against a woman for being a different color. So go ahead and call me a racist simply because I’m White or whatever, i know there are some real racist White guys – believe me, I’m aware of it – but not all of us are like that. I’m not. I fell in love with a Black girl about a year ago, and it didnt work out but I still miss her, and talk to her regularly.
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And that’s not to say that you’re necessarily being racist about all White dudes, you mentioned New York. So maybe New York White guys are racist, I couldn’t say, I’ve never been to New York. I hope i’m not just coming off as angry, I just get annoyed when people tell me what my opinion is based on my race or gender, which might not be your view, but some of the comments on this page lead me to think thats what some people are doing.
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@white dude,
I hope i’m not just coming off as angry, I just get annoyed when people tell me what my opinion is based on my race or gender, which might not be your view, but some of the comments on this page lead me to think thats what some people are doing.
Not sure if you will agree but I think the most damning comments about WM are those maede by WM on this particular post. They are the ones who are representing ‘you’ and advising the world via the wide web, how WM think and feel about posts such as this. Obvioulsy interspersed with that, there are individuals both black and white who appear to concur with this however, for the most part the posts reflect people trying to understand how or why people think or feel the way they do, particularly if it is in the negative regarding IR relationships.
Of course, everyone is entitled to their own opinions and again whilst debates do go on, largely everyone leaves the thinking of others to their own devices. Its not about changing minds and forcing people to re-think but, you would think that those who come on to a forum such as this ‘might’ be open to this…..
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I am a white man who has gone out with several Fijian women who are black. As you note, the problem I’ve encountered is that families of the women.rather than even meet me or get to know me say you can’t trust a white man – they’ll only exploit you and so on – racism – from black people. Interesting don’t you think? There is also the issue of even dating someone who isn’t Fijian.
You may want to consider that we are all just people and we all have our own but similar prejudices and preconceived notions about other races. It isn’t black versus white – it’s just people.
You may also want to explore some of the statistics and reports regarding black slave rape. It simply didn’t happen – virtually at all per census data and surveys done shortly before the 1860s – but black people have perpetuated this myth as an excuse for their own racist statements.
Racism isn’t a one-way street. I think black people need to consider this – as well as anyone who makes any kind of derogatory statement about someone who is different than them.
And to put this in perspective, I am the legal guardian of two Fijian girls who are now in college and have raised them as my own daughters – with people of all races and countries frequently visiting our house.
What do you think?
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Bob,
Stop talking out of your ar$e. You know that this happened – why the fuck would it be documented. The evidence is there in society – mulatto babies, people who are clearly of mixed heritage and considering that people couldn’t be in an IR relationship let alone marry out of their race until the mid 60’s, how the hell do you account for this.
You are a piece of work, seriously. There are MANY valid reasons for POC to harbour resentment and be racists historically besides the defiling of BW – this alone is not the ONLY thing considered when people discuss this matter.
And to put this in perspective, I am the legal guardian of two Fijian girls who are now in college and have raised them as my own daughters – with people of all races and countries frequently visiting our house.
What do you think?
I think it is YOU who is perpetuating the myth and I am concerned that you are passing your narrow viewpoint down to these children – Do you honestly think Bob that what you have stated here is rational and honest – not only in terms of history, but in terms of your own personal feeling which I think is coming through much more than your attempts to ‘re-write’ history to your liking. I appreciate it would be horrible and detrimental in terms of your relationship with your ‘daughters’ to know the TRUTH about the past but, just by you saying it didn’t happen doesn’t make it so.
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@Bob you may not be racist but your ignorance is a bit astonishing.
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@Bulanik
You quoted Bob Male slave owners were fine, morally upstanding folk who made their dirty secrets public for all to see and report about? I doubt it.
Further, who proffered this information about no-rape during slavery? These same morally upstanding people, I would guess…
I’m sure you saw my response 🙂 both on this and another post. NO White male of this time would volunteer to people that they raped and defiled ‘their’ slaves. This was something that would offend the sensibilities of their delicate wives, not only cos it was another woman but because it was a Black Woman no less. Besides, the idea of ‘sex’, particularly out of wedlock was deemed immoral, and admitting to doing it for gratification and pleasure would have really ‘upset’ things.
Just as in different circles in society i.e. the Upper Class/Rich/Powerful it was a given that the men would have a ‘bit of totty on the side’ which as long as it didnt interfere with the day to day co-existence of their ‘normal’ family life, women would turn a blind eye to.
Underneath it all, Bob seems to have experienced some animosity from certain sectors and it seems to have turned him quite bitter.
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dancin around the truth…here is the truth about this topic. Please leave your theories about our past…in the past. If that was the case…I am 100%German and if I clung so tight to my heritage, I would despise everyone who was not German. I have a black girlfriend and have not been with a white woman for over 5 years. I am very attracted to dark skin and “exotic” features. The main reasons a white man would not marry a black woman are as follows: Health: diet and exercise are necessary for everyone to be healthy and happy. This involves only eating clean foods and limiting or eliminating drinking and drugs all together. Body type: most white men are attracted to more of a slim figure. No one wants overweight or unhealthy spouses or children. My girl is 5’9″ 135 lbs and all of my white friends think she is beautiful and would love to find someone like her. Family: black families have a tendancy to get involved in your business. As a white man, I will not let someone’s famliy to control what happens in my relationship.
After getting through all these issues with my girl, I would totally marry her now. We love eachother, have an incredible attraction/sexual relationship, and have both found what we were looking for. The United States was supposed to be a melting pot, which means creating a culture together, not trying to transplant our culture here. If we all just stood back and let the past go, we could leave the stupid racism and resentment behind. If you are not attracted to someone, guess what? It is ok. My girl and I love eachother and have found the spark we were both looking for, partly because we do have an interracial relationship. Open yourself up and stop being bitter…that means everyone, and you might just experience the love and passion my girl and I have. My girl would tell you exactly the same thing. We now have very open communication and are more attracted to the thought of being together every day. Life is way too short…you want a white man, or a black woman in your life? Just find it…it is out there…action speaks louder than words.
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Keepitreal4now,
It’s great that you and your Black girlfriend have a positive relationship but, unfortunately, you/your PRO-BW mindset don’t represent the attitudes of MOST American men towards BW.
The fact is that ALL American men are BRAINWASHED to be
azzh—-s to BW SOLELY BECAUSE THEY’RE BW.
BW are not to BLAME for the ANTI-BW HATE that has HISTORICALLY been PROMOTED/CONDONED against them in American culture/media.
BW didn’t INVENT ANTI-BW HATE and and it’s not their RESPONSIBILITY to end it. ANTI-BW HATE will end when ANTI-BW HATERS change THEIR HATEFUL attitudes/actions towards BW.
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Laromana,
I would not necessarily agree that “all american men” are brainwashed to hate BW. I have experienced that when people really attempt to get along and work together, in a friendship, relationship, or at work, there are no issues(or at least not more than normal). I think bad behavior/attitudes can exist in any race and that is what people dislike. I personally have had good and bad experiences with all races relationship wise. I think it is silly to generalize..If we would just respect everyone as humans,that would be a great start. I absolutely love the beautiful woman in my life, and she just happens to be a beautiful black woman.
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It’s interesting and funny how white women plump their asses and lips, boobs, etc. It’s hilarious actually. No matter how “good” the work is, its nothing compared to black women or even mexican women’s natural features. They are trying to look the part without the skin color. I revel in the failure and the infectious parts of the body their ruin to try and look, they THEY think is beautiful. They think the features are beautiful, they said it themselves. It’s a big, obvious issue of jealousy of certain features. That’s a fact.
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@ Bob
“You may also want to explore some of the statistics and reports regarding black slave rape. It simply didn’t happen – virtually at all per census data and surveys done shortly before the 1860s – but black people have perpetuated this myth as an excuse for their own racist statements.”
—–
You have GOT to be kidding me! Who do you think created the surveys, took the surveys and compiled the data? Black people? LMAO!
This post is about why so few white men marry black women. I personally don’t think the subject of slave rape should be always automatically lumped into discussions about bw/wm relationships. The two things are separate. Don’t get me wrong. I totally get how there would be a lack of trust for women. From what I’ve heard and read, SOME American black women seem to be more concerned about being the object of a fetish or sexual curiosity than a master/slave scenario being played out.
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Black Man + Black Woman
White Man + White Woman
Simple as that. We don’t need interracial at all.
– A russian
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Thanks for your enlightening reply Kyrill. Any relation to Vladimir Zhironovsky?
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I used to go to gentlemen’s clubs. I am a white man, but black women on average give a better lap dance than do white women. They are less inhibited and less concerned about “club rules” than white women. Oddly enough, the only stripper who ever asked me if I needed company for the evening was a young black dancer. I declined, because I was not looking for a date for the evening, whatever we might have ended up doing. That being said, had she been white, I also would have declined her invitation for company after her shift was over.
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@torpedojoe
I used to go to gentlemen’s clubs. I am a white man, but black women on average give a better lap dance than do white women. They are less inhibited and less concerned about “club rules” than white women.
So in this particular club, you have conveyed that BW were better at titilation than WW and turned you on more. So, you’re quids in then – you got what you paid for, a memorable dance and fuel for your five knuckle shuffle later.
I do have to agree with proudchocalategirl though – unless you went to these clubs in search of a wifewho happens to be Black.
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Keepitreal4now says,
Laromana,
I would not necessarily agree that “all american men” are brainwashed to hate BW. I have experienced that when people really attempt to get along and work together, in a friendship, relationship, or at work, there are no issues(or at least not more than normal). I think bad behavior/attitudes can exist in any race and that is what people dislike. I personally have had good and bad experiences with all races relationship wise. I think it is silly to generalize..If we would just respect everyone as humans,that would be a great start. I absolutely love the beautiful woman in my life, and she just happens to be a beautiful black woman.
Keepitreal4now,
Let me clarify.
From my LONG TERM/FIRST HAND experience, I’ve learned the REALITY that ALL American men are BRAINWASHED to be
azzh—-s to BW SOLELY BECAUSE THEY’RE BW.
MOST American men CHOOSE to GO ALONG with ANTI-BW BRAINWASHING but relatively FEW American men CHOOSE NOT to GO ALONG with ANTI-BW BRAINWASHING.
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The reasons why so few white men marry black women isn’t based entirely on just looks and having black children.
Whites know in this race driven society, marrying a black women may rob them of class hierarchy, render them the joke and insult of their peers, exclude them from families and families money, rob them of jobs and promotions and threaten their very place in White society.
I get hit on by White men more than black men. My mocha complexion seems to be something of a mystery.
Something about dark skin is seen as ” exotic.”
Even dangerous, making it a forbidden thrill.
I feel that the decision not to marry black women is based solely on self preservation.
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~~~~~~~~~
SOURCE
Whatchall thank?
(Caps mine for emphasis)
In the end, it’s NOT about physical appearance or having mixed kids.
Humans HAVE BEEN MIXING for thousands of years; white men have desired black women since they first laid eyes on us.
It’s NOT about the physical, and NEVER has been, so people need to just kill that argument now.
It’s about dealing.
A white man who finds black women attractive (and isn’t bothered by the thought of having mixed kids) but hesitates to marry one hesitates because he doesn’t want to deal with the world.
He doesn’t want to deal with all the extra questions, comments, looks and overall unnecessary additional stress which he, as a white heterosexual male in American society, has NEVER had to deal with before.
He doesn’t want to deal with his family, his friends, their friends, his coworkers, his bosses, and random strangers.
Like most humans, he prefers the path of least resistance.
However, a BW living in these disunited states who finds white men attractive but hesitates to marry one does so for very different reasons.
First of all, “dealing with the world” is nothing new for her. She was born into a society where the UNNECESSARY ADDITIONAL STRESS AUTOMATICALLY came with the YOU’RE-NOT-WELCOME BASKET.
So when she meets a white guy she finds attractive but declines going out with, it’s because she doesn’t want to deal with him.
She doesn’t want to deal with whatever ROT he’s got buried inside and doesn’t know about.
She doesn’t want to take the risk that he’s ultimately a COWARD who can’t deal with the harsh realities of the world.
She doesn’t want to have to educate him on things that he SHOULD HAVE ALREADY TAUGHT HIMSELF.
Like most humans, she too prefers the path of least resistance.
Now here’s where most people jump onto the BW and tell her she should risk it all for love.
Um…no. I say we should encourage BW to marry more white American men the day WE SEE WHITE AMERICAN PARENTS-IN DROVES-URGING THEIR SONS TO IGNORE SOCIETY AND MARRY MORE BW.
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@laromana
I agree with much of what you say here. In fact, I would go so far as to say that the men that post on here that they would not date BW or find them unattractive etc, are the ones that this relates to most.
I find that these men have their own perceived shortcomings – whether they admit it or not, and its often caught up with how they ‘compare’ against BM too. They cant ‘deal’ with how they think they themselves are perceived by society as a whole and certainly couldnt ‘cope’ with further scrutiny so, they ‘condition’ themselves to believe that BW dont appeal to them on any level.
I’m not saying that when you meet someone it should just be about aesthetics. Its about opening and following your heart regardless.
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@Laromana
You summed this up beautifully! I always thought that cowardice and the path of least resistance played a giant role.
Well said!
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It disturbs me whenever Black women debate whether White men are capable suitors (or Black men on White women). It’s so historically detached. I can admit that the machine makes us think like this, but it still disturbs me.
I reason nothing but self-hatred can attract a Black woman to a White man. He of such incomparable evil and hatred.
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@Onitaset
“I reason nothing but self-hatred can attract a Black woman to a White man. He of such incomparable evil and hatred.”
Self hatred could be one reason. Another is to propel oneself to a higher level within society.
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I will confess, that I am hard at recalling the last time that I wished to quote Kanye West. Although I do say that in jest. You know the song? 🙂
I feel sorry for the Sister who embraces the exploiter of her race (putting it kindly), solely to enjoy a fraction of what she could had she not volunteered to abet this exploiter but instead organized alongside her Siblings against him and his.
On my blog, a Sister from the continent asked me how long I lived in Africa, fancying me an American: “Over 200,000 years was my answer.”
Such is an answer all of our Siblings should consider when interracial dating comes into question.
It disturbs me that African women even rationalize the European man’s lack of predation. I find that the conversation should ne’er occur. These women should be thankful rather than dialoguing on the weaknesses or ‘racist-attitude’ of these men. It strikes me as a woman wondering why a rapist doesn’t attack her.
Personally, I am at a loss as to why Abagond brought up the topic even once, let alone twice.
I only wish that Europeans never married Africans; the rationale as to why they cross-marry is clear in our captivity.
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Well said Onitaset. 😀 I agree completely.
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No marrying is not raping. Why do you ask?
Just as you can be sarcastic, I can be allegorical (and witty :-p)
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@Onitaset
Why not just answering Bulanik’s question rather than just avoiding it. Not very couragious nor very productive to the overall DISCUSSION. If that is what you want.
I personally do insist you answering: DO YOU RELLY THINK ALL WHITE MEN IN A RELATIONSHIP (OR WANTING TO BE) WITH A BLACK WOMAN ARE RAPISTS?? Or that black women seeing a white man as a good spouse are just hating themselves? ALL? And why ALL of them?
Please explain and do offer some psychological evidence to support your sweeping statement. Without any evidence I label you as a person with severe prejudices. Reading and posting at Abagond’s however hopefully opens your eyes to the fact that people are, after all, individuals and can possibly think for themselves despite their ethnic and/or geographic origins.
Thank you. Expecting to hear your concise and engaging response. Merry christmas.
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Hannu Lipponen,
It is my understanding that Bulanik’s point was that rape is offtopic, as evinced in Bulanik’s link to a topic on rape. Maybe you should ask Bulanik to be less sarcastic in the future.
As to your question on White men and relationships. It is very interesting.
Europeans are by and by a hateful people. Hateful to themselves, hateful against women, and hateful to God.
I can discuss the three points; all of which can be shown through their primary religion: Christianity. It is very fitting that you would write “Merry Christmas.”
First, on hatred of self. One compliment for a European is to be “God-fearing,” but as God is all-loving, God acts through love and to fear God then is to fear love. In fearing love, one acts hatefully. Therefore, Europeans are hateful to themselves (and others.) [I am being brief–fill in the blanks–I do you a rare nicety in this discussion–mostly because of your unnerving coward remark]
For hatred to God, see above, to ‘fear’ the actions of God, one naturally must ‘hate’ God’s actions and in hating all of God’s actions, one is hateful to God.
Finally, the hatred of women is so deep rooted in European society, I should not need to prove it. Nevertheless, it’s worth noting that the narrative of “Adam and Eve” is a corruption of the African narrative of “Asar and Aset,” respectively. One key difference is in Eve coming from Adam as opposed to Aset and Asar coming to this earth simultaneously. More, Eve is uniquely punished in Christianity (and thus all women are below all men–read the story: Genesis 3:16 (New International Version): [As to quote a God, to a woman] “I will make your pains in childbearing very severe;
with painful labor you will give birth to children.
Your desire will be for your husband,
and he will rule over you.” ), whereas there are no punishments for either Asar or Aset–an African tradition.
By the by, I do not personally see European men fit for any women. So of course I abhor the example of a European man with an African woman, because in the background, the African woman should not be interacting with the European man (it’s only that he kidnapped her, then lied to her, that she interact.)
Come to think of it, that should be enough written.
That the European (man or woman) hates women, hates everyone and hates God, but also only interacts with the African due to lies and kidnapping, the point of European men raping African women is established.
You tell me if a hateful person who kidnaps and lies to another person to sleep with them is not a rapist. I dare you.
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@Bulanik
A point I think you may have made before but, I wonder if it is the syntax of the whole blog title that makes people think that the BW who write on this particular blog about being in relationships with WM (or wanting to be in some instances), are without self respect/dignity and pride in their quest to date outside their race? The title seems to suggest a kind of Merry go round effect where WM are ‘getting their end away’ with BW but not wanting to commit and that the said BW are lamenting the loss of these WM and that they are left bereft but continue to perpetuate the cycle again.
Admittedly, I am still discovering how things are in the U.S in terms of inter racial relations in all areas of life however, it saddens me to think that BM, raised by strong BW would literally ‘write off’ a BW in terms of their choice of mate, not acknowledging the fact that these women are smart and capable enough to make decent choices in their lives. Surely this can’t be the case?
What is most troublesome is, as Hannu stated, the ‘sweeping’ generalisations caught up in the comments of Onitaset. I am intrigued to hear the rationale behind his statements
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About military people being ignorant and racist; just because they marry other POC at higher rates doesn’t make them less racist.
Also IQ of the military; is that because the average military person is smarter or is it balanced out by having dumb soldiers and smart officers and how does it reflect per miilitary organization, are certain ones like the air force exceptionally smarter than other ones like the marines or army?
As for black women and respect; not a dating scenario but at work when I give them customer service, they almost always seem surprised, like it blows them away that they would be afforded that level of basic politeness.
I don’t know if it has to do with me liviing in the south but it seriously made me wonder exactly how black people were treated the majority of the time.
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Bulanik,
The “wit” was in taking your remark literally. Your remark was sarcastic. Namely, the question “Marrying is raping?” was asked sarcastically.
Otherwise, you missed the allegorical language seeing how I did not equate rape and marriage until challenged by Hannu Lipponen.
Nevertheless, a review of the post will show that the allegory was in African women wondering why European men did not pursue them; similar to a rapist wondering why a rapist does not attack her. There was an allegory, but not an equation. Namely, no where do I write, until after I am challenged, that European men sleeping with African women are rapists.
Recall the language:
“It strikes me as a woman wondering why a rapist doesn’t attack her.”
Finally, near immediately after my comment, Nana agreed “Completely.” So whether certain women did not respond is not my concern. I spoke an agreeable voice.
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@ Oniset
If you do not understand sarcasm, you will be in for a lot of trouble and take the risk of becoming cannon fodder for the internet artillery…
Erm, when and where did your god enter the discussion? I assume that you are aware that there are myriads of religions on this planet, and that you have chosen one of the abrahamic religions of the Levant, and believing in the teachings of the folklore of that region does NOT COMPUTE in any way with the content of this discussion.
You are confusing your own beliefs with relationships between white and black people.
You do realize that christianity was forced upon africans by white colonialists? Basically you are just preaching their agenda. Where are your original, animistic african beliefs??
Black women choosing nice white men or white men choosing nice white men has NOTHING TO DO WITH COLOR. I hope. If it does it’s wrong.
Using middle-eastern religions to justify your totally illogical conclusions just suggests very untrained and severely biased thinking.
I’m sorry.
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Behold African people!
Hannu Lipponen challenged me to speak and bid me a Merry Christmas (read again–a Happy Birth of Christ!).
When I responded focusing on Christianity (something so strongly influential that he just bid me to celebrate the birth of Christ), he told me how inappropriate that was seeing how I am African (THOUGH HE JUST WROTE ME TO CELEBRATE IT!). He then admitted to our being robbed, raped and confused by Europeans. He insulted that I even considered these rapists and insulted further my thinking patterns (calling me “untrained” even!) Then he, not short of degrading me, improperly dismissed my ancestral religions as one of ‘animism.’
He would go on to tell me that certain Europeans are decent–after misspelling my name no less.
Then apologizing to me, because apparently I am not as smart as he.
Behold!
This is your ‘decent’ European.
—
Let me dissect his language though, seeing how there’s little better to do:
“Erm, when and where did your god enter the discussion? I assume that you are aware that there are myriads of religions on this planet, and that you have chosen one of the abrahamic religions of the Levant, and believing in the teachings of the folklore of that region does NOT COMPUTE in any way with the content of this discussion.”
He mentioned Christmas, but as I mention Christianity, I am off topic, insensitive to the plethora of religions, and talking on “my god.” “Christmas” however is on-topic, sensitive to the plethora of religions, and ‘our god’ quite naturally.
“You are confusing your own beliefs with relationships between white and black people. ”
Now, I quoted the Bible where women are reduced below men, but it’s “My belief.” Though–again–he wished me a “Merry Christmas.”
“You do realize that christianity was forced upon africans by white colonialists? Basically you are just preaching their agenda. Where are your original, animistic african beliefs??”
Now ain’t this something. He just wrote “Merry Christmas.” Further, supposedly, in talking of European self-hatred, I am preaching their agenda? Finally–I wrote down about Asar and Aset, two characters of original African beliefs, but this was dismissed seeing how they are not animals. This is a “decent European man.”
“Black women choosing nice white men or white men choosing nice white men has NOTHING TO DO WITH COLOR. I hope. If it does it’s wrong.”
Later, there’s this lecture, contrary to Abagond’s evidences, and without evidence. But recall how demanding of evidence this poster was on me.
“Using middle-eastern religions to justify your totally illogical conclusions just suggests very untrained and severely biased thinking.
I’m sorry.”
Finally, there’s this insult. He admits that Europeans exported Christianity, he admits that the United States of America promotes Christianity, but somehow, suddenly, it’s middle-eastern, foreign, and illogical.
This same man reasons that African women, though he thinks Africans ought worship animals, should marry European men.
Exposed.
—
As to Bulanik’s, hopefully Bulanik will see how undue they are in the insults to Africans as laid out by this supposed ally of hers.
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Bulanik,
With all due respect, you are senselessly angry.
Whether one misreads a remark or not, does not change the facts.
Further, your question was sarcastic. That’s a fact. Otherwise, it’s a grammatical, nonsensical mess. “Marrying is raping?” doesn’t mean anything all its own. Only if you are sarcastically asking the question can it mean anything.
As to you not caring about Nana’s opinion, that’s good for you. But I do. And you had remarked that women were not answering my response, but clearly Nana responded.
Finally, you linked another thread. I found the thread itself irrelevant. I now see what you mean. If it escapes you as to why I did not know that the comments were geared toward my response, then perhaps you should realize that in misreading my comment as one on ‘rape’ you pointed me to a rape thread, but I never wrote the piece to talk on rape. Again, it is allegorical.
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@Onitaset
Damn right, you are not as smart as I am. And by the way, I am an atheist. And I do know quite a bit about not just religions, but also about the biological and culturally imposed need to manipulate people through worshipping of different deities.
Yet again, religion and such has very little to do with the discussion at hand. You just use it as ‘deus ex machina’, thinking that people will just stand back in awe with your silly notions.
My well wishes of christmas had nothing to do with your superstitions, I was just being polite. If you knew anything about the origins of said festivity (and having lived in my latitude where darkness at his time of the year is all-consuming and -embracing), you would know that it is of pagan origin, simply to celebrate the end of darkness, i.e. winter solstice, and the expectance of spring. That the days of growing darkness are over, that the awakening of spring is yet to come.
Read, know and learn. Not just believe.
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@Onitset
Bulanik is way too smart for you to understand, that much is clear. Good grief. You came after the locusts, right?
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And now Bulanik should understand my comments–and why I call her senselessly angry.
This European (from where Bulanik questions the ‘racism’) “liberal,” as thordaddy would put it, Hannu Lipponen had immediately dismissed all of my education, appointed himself as my intellectual superior and excused his use of Christmas as informed over my, apparently, superstitious use.
Despite this, no intelligent reader will see me attaching Christianity to Africans. Isn’t that something?
I set to prove that the European is by the by hateful. Then a hateful European insulted me for exposing the hatefulness of Europeans. In fact, at one point, I wrote that the European hates God, the all-loving. This European then admits to being an atheist!! That alone is enough of a reason for every African to avoid Europeans.
I am finished with this discussion. My African observers can read that I told no lie and challenged I brought truth–and was insulted for it.
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Let someone else discus why intelligence is being discussed here.
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“Then a hateful European insulted me for exposing the hatefulness of Europeans.”
You do realize that is an oxymoron?
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@Onitaset
I bid you farewell then, and wish you take whatever intellect you have with you. I am sure none of us will be any wiser.
Sorry, Abagond…
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As Neo from the Matrix said, ‘The problem is choice.’ Bitter is the road of those who choose to exercise it. laromana pointed out the anxiety that some may feel if in mixed relationships, because not only do some family and close friends pitch a stone b$tch when they see a mixed couple, but random tom,dick, and harrys on the street corner, or in the club, will often feel compelled to offer their 2 cents (the value, literally, of their comments). these societal pressures should no be enough to dissaude people, but often times, they are. perhaps it is better understood when experienced, rather than just told. many people are overwhelmingly in support of mixed relationships when asked their opinion, but dare not to carry it out in practice. that is because it is a difficult proposition. laromana is quite correct.
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Bulanik, it seems silly of me to continue this point, but I should remind you that your comment remains sarcastic despite the source. It’s sarcastic because you did not actually mean it as a question. Notice that you alone put it as a question. “Marriage is raping?” is a sarcastic phrase, just as “Dictionaries are Bowls?” is a sarcastic, though nonsensical phrase.
On coherence, (apologies if I seem more rude, but it’s nasty to accuse me of entertainer–especially after claiming that I disrespect African women and am intimidated by one who speaks ‘her opinion’) speak for yourself. It’s written like that for a reason. For one, I engage with Hannu, who is by and large hateful–see his language–(though it would be much easier to just see his race). He begins our discussion with calling me a coward, then pointing out how I ought worship animals and finally ends with how much more intelligent he is than me. I was coherent enough for our African siblings. You merely read it through, for lack of a better word, a European lens. If you reread the post with less anger, you will see that it’s a very coherent and useful piece.
As to Hannu, I do not realize the statement as an oxymoron and I am confused as to why Bulanik would find it a double negative. What I realize is that you are a hateful individual and I am curious as to why Bulanik doesn’t see this, too.
Ironically Bulanik, though disparaging me with the idea that I am intimidated by ‘females with opinions,’ you remark to your being ‘afraid’ several times in your post:
“I am afraid to say that although you bring out my cheeriness, you rationale is not coherently written here, I’m afraid, although it does read rather nicely on your blog-site, so thanks for that!”
I would prefer apologies over this idea of putting me as one to ‘cheer’ you and ‘entertain’ you. That’s very, very rude.
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More, to put an end to this conversation, Bulanik, you show your true colors when you back up Hannu’s confusion of English (what “Oxymoron!?”), but do not address his confusion of our ancestral religions.
Are you a woman with an opinion, or are you a woman with a European opinion? After all, do you not admit elsewhere, to mostly working in Europe and mistaking certain European nations as non-racist?
Your words:
“It’s also not the first time that “white” and “European” have been used interchangeably, either. I am not American, and never lived there, spending most of my working life in European nations, therefore, can I look outside America for a minute, and focus on some countries in Europe such as Poland, Lithuania, Finland, Slovakia – for example? What do we find?
Well, apparently, as far as I know, these particular nations have no history of colonization and the rape of BW in Africa. Are we to charge the men of these nations with rape, too? If one of these European white men is married to a black woman then he is both her husband and her rapist, of course?”
Hmm . . . it’s quite unnerving that you would find it fitting to consider me one to cheer you. I care about the liberation of African people, not entertaining people who, frankly, make terrible propaganda antithetical to my purpose.
And you were senselessly angry. Quit backtracking. You claim to not be angry but that’s why I called it senseless. Hannu revealed himself, but instead of addressing him, you mock me with a statement on ‘entertainment.’ Awful.
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@Onitaset
You do realize that you have been jested because none of your comments have been on a solid, logical ground. Unfortunately, if you write incoherent and unsound opinions without any facts or any objective thinking backing them up, people will treat you accordingly.
You really, really need to try harder. THINK.
Yours truly,
Hannu
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I will add, this discussion is supposed to be one where people try to find some common ground; rambling diatribes don’t really help the conversation at all. It is overly simplistic on one hand to ignore the very real consequences of long-standing, systematic racism in the U.S. and other countries and say, ‘Can’t we all just get along and love each other?’ On the other hand, to take the extreme position of correlating the marriage of black women to white men to rape is about as wacko as it gets. Earlier, Levertis Steele wrote that there is a lot of blocking going on, and that’s a solid observation. At the end of the day, when a black woman and white man honestly try to make a relationship work, there’s going to be adversity, and it is probably going to be just about the toughest pairing two people will ever attempt. People are emotional beings, and outside forces can effect people. They shouldn’t keep people apart, but sometimes, they can, and that’s sad.
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Bulanik, I am honestly not interested in you. And it’s very ugly for you to accuse me of stalking after twice inviting me to another thread where you attacked me without my knowing.
Nevertheless, this interaction is surely finished.
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@Onitaset
Statements like this:-
‘That the European (man or woman) hates women, hates everyone and hates God, but also only interacts with the African due to lies and kidnapping, the point of European men raping African women is established.
You tell me if a hateful person who kidnaps and lies to another person to sleep with them is not a rapist. I dare you’
….Are why someone saw fit to include your comment on another blog related to rape as this particular blog is clearly about ‘consensual’ sexual relationships between BW and WM.
I sense you feel protective of BW however, I cant help but feel that there is also disdain for those who do make that ‘choice’ particularly as your comments only relate to the coupling of BW with WM and not vice versa though I appreciate that the latter is not relevant to this particular blog.
If we are talking historically then yes, your comments do have credence. Its a shame you were not involved in earlier discussions on other posts because other ‘bloggers’, particularly WM ones, have often taken great pains to deny this.
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Demerera,
The chronology is off. My comments were taken to another thread, much before I made the above comment. More, I would like to speak on “BM” and “WW,” but it’s not on-topic.
To wit, I never equated rape and marriage until afterward (and only because challenged to). And as for history, that’s beside the point. I laid out as to why the “WM” is today and always has been unfit for the “BW.” The “WM’s” culture, since its inception, is hateful to women and hateful to Africans. That’s my reasoning. The “WM” hates even the “WM”–see “feminism.”
“BW” talk of “double oppression” as “BW;” but from whom is this “oppression” beside “WM?” Of course the “WM” is universally unfit for “BW” today.
Maybe “rape” isn’t the best word–but I did not equate the two. Instead, challenged by some European, I used the word to address him. Truly, interracial pairings are ugly for they are counterproductive to African liberation in so many ways.
As to a freely choosing African–it’s ridiculous. A wrong choice results from a wrong education. One can choose ‘five’ to answer “two plus two equals” but that reflects on the education, not the question.
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True, though, as Demerera writes, that the history of the U.S., including the rape of black women, and the systematic racism, which continues as economic racism, informs the feelings of people to this very day. At the heart of this issue is trust, and what act is more an embodiment of trust than being in an emotional and physical relationship with another? It is no surprise that trust has been lost by many, and even I have a lack of trust in ‘authority,’ which really, is embodied by the white men who have done a lot of harm through history, particularly in the U.S. This is a sensitive issue for many, and it is no surprise that some BM do not approve of BW-WM pairings, because wrongly or rightly, they may see it as a dis of their manhood. In the same vein, WM who hop up and down hollering mad about BM-WW pairings may see them as a refutation of themselves, the white male. All I can say is that people have to reach their own nirvana, and if their life is spent doing good and making good around them, then everything else should take care of itself (assuming that everyone else is doing the same)..but, perhaps, that is something that is only a dream.
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truthonly, if one wills to do good, one must concede that Africans belong in a separate culture from the European. African people were robbed from their homeland, robbed of their languages, cultures, religions and down and down the list.
You speak of economic justice as though none of these extra robberies mean a thing. The interracial relationship is just as dismissive. Regardless of whether it is a “Black man” or a “Black woman,” the interracial relationship ultimately demands that, that African exist in the European’s culture where that African is hated. In this, no sensible individual can consent. For that ‘consent’ necessarily is a gesture of self-hatred–why would one self-loving consent to something hateful?
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Many people do identify strongly with their ethnicity and their culture, and this may also lead them to unequivocally rule out dating between ethnic groups. While this may seem perfectly logical to them, and while they are completely free to follow that course, i.e. black man only marries black women, white man only marries white woman, Hispanic man only marries Hispanic woman, Asian man only marries Asian woman, will this truly be a realistic expectation of all others in his/her ethnic group? I think Onitaset has the right to do as he sees fit, but my question to BW is, do BM tend to try to exert this influence commonly on BW? If so, it strikes me as paternalistic, which society is seemingly attempting to move away from. I have personally experienced this resentment from BM when they are confronted with a BW-WM couple, and it seems to me that it is VERY unrealistic for people in any group to think that they can speak for all others who they identify with. Perhaps the key is that men should never tell women what they should think, regardless of who they are 😉
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Traditionally, Africans had no conception of man separate from woman.
Today, African men are being told that we should stay out of the affairs of African women, as if these women were not our sisters, our mothers, our aunts, our daughters, our friends and our lovers.
What good has a separated African people done for African people as a whole?
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From the perspective of American society, ‘European’ or ‘African’ are out the window. No one who is self-loving consents to that which is hateful on face. One could claim that the new paradigm we live in is hateful to every living thing. Money and status are more important than people, than culture, than religion, than any other belief system there is, not because we want it to be, but because people have allowed them to be. Yes, Africans who were brought to the U.S. were absolutely robbed of everything, but it is quite unrealistic to ask all American BW to seek out only BM, just as it is quite unrealistic to tell a WW to only marry WM, or Asian women to only marry Asian men. It is an unsustainable, unrealistic idea, given the craving that people have for individual preference and liberty. I think BW might say that they highly resent the idea that they could only love certain people, just as anyone else would. It is dehumanizing, which is what this is really all about. People deserve better, regardless of who they are.
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truthonly,
It’s a matter of context. The “American” culture with which we both disagree is “European in America” culture. That spoken, neither of us see it as ‘loving.’ That said, few people in this “European in America” culture–so linked to “European culture”–can be loving. On this point, the African and European in America differ in one tremendous respect; the “African” (or “Black” if you will) can be separate from the European culture. In this the “Black” “can” be loving. For this reason do I recommend the “Black.” Simply because, if the goal is “love,” the “Black woman’s” only bet is the “Black man.” No one can expect a “White man” to love a “Black woman” when he hates the “White woman,” hates the “Black man” and hates the “Black woman.” Honestly, I do not think that there are exceptions. I am being as honest as I can be.
I’ll make a note to write on the subject.
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Nah.
I think the black woman will be just fine with me. I’m cuddly and fiercely protective, you know.
Heh.
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Bulanik is quite intelligent and sexy.
I bet she likes white guys. Big, sexy, pale,strong, nordic guys.
Mmm-mmm.
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Djimon my ass. I suppose he’s okay if he’s got those breasts, but sme how I doubt it…
😛
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Onitaset, I think you’ve dug your own grave. You wrote:
if the goal is “love,” the “Black woman’s” only bet is the “Black man.” No one can expect a “White man” to love a “Black woman” when he hates the “White woman,” hates the “Black man” and hates the “Black woman.” Honestly, I do not think that there are exceptions. I am being as honest as I can be.
I don’t know where to start. You believe the Black woman can only be loved by a Black man. False. Come to the city where I teach high school, and you will see legions of children without love from their fathers. I say it not to cast blame, but to refute your foolish claim. He who does not love his children can not love that child’s mother. You believe the White man hates the White woman. False. In many cases, White men have mothers and older sisters who molded them and made them better people. Such people can not be the targets of hate. You believe the White man hates the Black man. False. The system that imprisons and impoverishes Black men is a monster, yes, but it exists outside the will of any individual person, black or white. You believe the White man hates the Black woman. Quite to the contrary, many White men admire and are quite impressed by the strength and beauty of Black women. White men can fall in love with Black women, and vice versa, and I think this bothers you. I think you will find, Onitaset, that people will not accept the backward ideas you preach. You cannot reverse the course of history; you can’t make all Black people go back to Africa, or all White people go back to Europe, or all Asian people go back to Asia. You can’t stop the evolution of humanity; I think you’ll find that more and more people view race, or religion, or culture as things that identify them, but not as things that define them. People want to move beyond these outdated ideas that you cling to. No one will fault you for wanting to maintain your identity, unless you try to deny the freedoms of others.
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I have relatives in interracial marriages and have quite a few mixed race relatives that I’m around often. However, when I see a Black person in a relationship with a White person my gut feeling is that they are sleeping with the enemy and selling out, and it makes me distrust that Black person. After all the terrible things Whites have done to us in the past and do to us now, when Black people marry White people, to me, it feels like they are saying that what White people have done to us and are doing to us right now doesn’t matter.
I don’t trust White people and I don’t like them in general because of their supreme arrogance, gargantuan sense of entitlement and deeply ingrained racist attitudes. Most of the Whites I’ve met who seem non-racist and think of themselves as one of the “nice” ones show their racist attitudes sooner or later and as Abagond points out they think either you’re racist or you’re not and consider themselves not racist because they are not Neo-Nazis, but still harbour and express many racist biases and views. In my personal experience, most of the White people I’ve met have been very deceptive and have been the very worst liars and were very skilled at it, like it was a way of life for them.
I read somewhere that in a society that constantly pushes the message that Black is inferior and White is human perfection, Black love is a revolutionary act and I somewhat agree with that. I believe it is a resistance against White supremacy. To build a strong and successful Black community you need to build strong Black families. When Black people have relationships with White people it feels like the black person is affirming the prevailing idea that White is best and the ultimate prize for a Black person and that Black is second best.
It annoys me when White liberals with a penchant for relationships with Black people smugly say their favourite clichés: “people are just people” “we’re all just individuals” “the past is the past let’s move on” “one love”, yeah it’s easy for you to say, you’re not the one who has been on the receiving end of all the terrorism, hatred, dehumanization and constant humiliation, you’ve felt none of the pain and get all of the benefits.
Here in England,I think one of the reasons why interracial relationships are suddenly “cool” and “progressive” and being promoted and presented as a good thing by the media, is because Black people will be subsumed into the White majority, but when Whites are in a minority in the places they’ve colonized then it is a different story. They keep to themselves and frown upon interracial relationships when that is the case. Why don’t the Whites in Africa marry the Black people there in large numbers?
Logically I know and understand that the black people in interracial relationships with White people are in a relationship with an individual and that individual might be a wonderful kind person, but this is how I feel and I’m never going to like it, because in my mind White is associated with racism, hatred and oppression and I consider White people to be the enemy of Black people. My feelings about Black/White interracial relationships are not totally logical, but I feel they are understandable given the White supremacist society I have lived in all my life and the racism I have been subjected to by White people and continue to be subjected to daily. The culprits for me feeling the way I do and other Black people who feel the same are the architects of White supremacy.and the majority of White people who are its practitioners.
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Valid points, Robert. You correctly perceive that England, like America, is more or less dominated by WASPs, politically, economically, and socially. These WASPs have managed to not only maintain control, but to change ALL white people into their perceived proxies. It is understandable that you, as a Black male, harbor some resentment toward BW-WM couples, or BM-WW couples, because, frankly, your life experiences have programmed you to have exactly that reaction. If people can one day identify their common interests versus their differences, perhaps society could become more equitable for everyone. But again, as you note, the people in power at the moment are not so likely to give it up willingly. Well, anyways, I thought about it a little, and perhaps, the conversation has veered too much from Abagond’s original premise, or maybe, Robert, you have managed to sum it all up.
Abagond asked, ‘Why so few white men marry black women?’..or perhaps, he was stating it. Nonetheless, he surmised:
1) Women, not men, apply race to dating
2) Most black women would prefer to marry a black man.
Abagond added, ‘Yet on the other hand I cannot shake from my mind the way white men, at least in New York, act as if black women are not living, breathing women.’
Now, Robert, you managed to express perhaps what a lot of Black men feel, or think. Is it not conceivable that, confronted with a Black/White couple, your beliefs/anxieties/dislikes might be evidenced to them, which may cause them discomfort. Would such responses be one of the reasons that Black women might apply race to dating and prefer to marry a black man, to avoid negative perceptions of self. I can say with conviction that White men would not feel comfortable defending private matters, like a personal relationship, to strangers, much less family members and friends, or arguing about their merit or acceptability. I am old-fashioned in only one way, and that is, a romance between a man and a woman is between that man and woman and no one else. Anyways, society does act either positively or negatively toward mixed relationships, and it sounds as if too many people just are unable to accept them. They in turn project their anxieties on to Black women or White men who may be willing to take a chance on love, and it is a selfish need that causes them to do this. I would say to people, ‘Know your value,’ and only then will you be at peace with others, black, white, blue, or purple. So, maybe Abagond is right; therefore, what is the debate about? Black women more likely than not apply race to dating, and they would prefer to marry a black man. Both valid, and probably correct, points. Rest assured that I will always treat women, Black or not, with respect, as living, breathing women. Do better, New York men!
This is probably just about all I can say on this. It is clear to me, not only from this site, but from my experiences in life, that most people are living in a ‘matrix.’ They can’t let go of the past in order to proceed into the future, and if that is the norm, rather than the exception, then this world really doesn’t have much chance of changing for the better. Yes, the world we live in is a hierarchy, and the truth is, most of us are slaves to a system that robs us of our humanity. People are so busy seeing themselves as this or that, of fixating on the inconsequential, that they fail to see that we are staring down our own extinction. People will eventually have to realize that races, religions, governments, etc. are temporary conditions/entities that change to serve certain interests. At one point or another, sooner or later, people will have to look beyond the superficialities that divide them in order to build a better future.
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Thank you, Robert.
truthonly, I did not ‘dig my own grave.’ The matter with you, like other Whites, is that you can not accept that maybe there’s something wrong with being White. Every time someone non-White points you to this fact, you dismiss it as archaic and anachronistic, then you go on to say that some Whites are terrible, as if maybe, possibly you too can’t be terrible.
Why do you think that? That’s the real question. It’s a universal fact that the Western canon has no concept of ‘goodness.’ It’s also known that no where in Europe is “love” defined. But this does not bother you.
truthonly, what is ‘goodness?’ and what is ‘love?’ According to which of your Philosophers? I have read plenty of Europe’s greatest and all of them are stumped.
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@Onitaset, Bulanik wrote to you:
Onitaset. Yes, I agree. You are being silly.
And incoherent.
You also have no idea how patronising you are, either. Quite appalling.
You know nothing of my origins, or imagined disposition.
I’m starting to find your hankering slightly (by slightly, I mean “very”) creepy.
I would insist you do not attempt to stalk me on this blog-site.
You really must try to get over me.
I can’t give you any more of my attention.
Yes, people are tuning you out, you are digging your own ‘blog grave,’ because you say things like:
The matter with you, like other Whites, is that you can not accept that maybe there’s something wrong with being White. Every time someone non-White points you to this fact, you dismiss it as archaic and anachronistic, then you go on to say that some Whites are terrible, as if maybe, possibly you too can’t be terrible.
Your arguments are very emotional and irrational, and to be blunt, racist. I understand that, though, because maybe your life has programmed you to believe so. From The Matrix, for you:
Spoon boy: Do not try and bend the spoon. That’s impossible. Instead… only try to realize the truth.
Neo: What truth?
Spoon boy: There is no spoon.
Neo: There is no spoon?
Spoon boy: Then you’ll see, that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself.
Also from The Matrix, for you:
Morpheus: You have to let it all go, Neo. Fear, doubt, and disbelief. Free your mind.
Onitaset, perhaps you should take a less rigid view of life and people; it may serve you better in the long run.
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The entry of Abagond’s earlier than this instructs on how to tell if a commenter is White:
You: “Your arguments are very emotional and irrational, and to be blunt, racist. ”
Abagond: “12. They say you are the racist one.”
You: “I understand that, though, because maybe your life has programmed you to believe so. From The Matrix, for you:”
Abagond: 14. “They talk down to you like they know everything and you know nothing, like you are just imagining things.”
You: “Onitaset, perhaps you should take a less rigid view of life and people; it may serve you better in the long run.”
Abagond: 13. “They think that racism is over. The election of Obama proves it!”
And
24. “If you make a general statement about whites they will say it is racist and that not all whites are like that.”
Firstly, again, unlike you, I studied a plethora of European Philosophers. You insist that I am emotional and irrational, though this reflects more on you than on me. Anyone with a modicum of studies knows that ’emotions’ are ‘rational.’ That said, i am very rational, I have pointed out that no where do Europeans even have a concept of good–this is why your people did what they did to Africans. What I realize, that you do not, is that your people never improved intellectually, spiritually or morally. That said, I “rationally” put that you are the same people to be rejected.
As to citing Bulanik, don’t. Some “Black” people would lynch other Africans as an expression of freedom. I am done with those “Blacks.”
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@Onitaset
1.To wit, I never equated rape and marriage until afterward (and only because challenged to). And as for history, that’s beside the point.
I beg to differ here history is NOT beside the point. It is the fundamenta basis for appreciating the context in which people write comments on this blog and their current feelings of societal perceptions therein. Its shocking that you do not see the link here.
2. BW” talk of “double oppression” as “BW;” but from whom is this “oppression” beside “WM?” Of course the “WM” is universally unfit for “BW” today.
Yes. Being Black and being Female can and does have its drawbacks in todays society. I am not going to elaborate here as this would potentially take this off topic suffice to say that if you as a BM you do not understand the meaning behind this then may I re-direct you back to the post on Rihanna for starters where you will get an little insight into what is meant by this.
3. Maybe “rape” isn’t the best word–but I did not equate the two. Instead, challenged by some European, I used the word to address him. Truly, interracial pairings are ugly for they are counterproductive to African liberation in so many ways.
No, rape is certainly not the best word in this case and I must beg to differ here -you did equate the two, maybe not as overtly initially but the implication was clear.
4.As to a freely choosing African–it’s ridiculous. A wrong choice results from a wrong education. One can choose ‘five’ to answer “two plus two equals” but that reflects on the education, not the question.
You are beginning to sound like a dictator here – just because it is not a ‘choice’ you agree with does not make it an incorrect or invalid choice. You talk about respect of BW and with that comes personal empowerment too. Allowing them the freedom to decide who they want to be with. Are you saying that BW are not smart enough to be able to decide their own life destiny?
I want to point out that I am not trying to change your opinion – what you think is up to you but, when challenged, it is merely your own generalisations that come to the fore here. IMO forums like this are supposed to be a refreshing change to the generalisations and stereotypes which filter down like fables out of the mouths of some folk who post on here. Sure they can quote verbatim what their forefathers said and thought and back this up with articles, but a truly learned individual looks at both the pros and cons of any issue to bring forth a balanced point of view. What is apparent in your comments is that your own indoctrinate prevails and you are at times both dismissive and slightly derisive in terms of your responses – hence my comment on a previous post about arrogance.
Whilst I know that you are not alone in your opinion and your outlook therein, the difference between you and a poster like Robert is that he has his own opinion which seems to have been shaped and moulded by his life. Whilst I dont necessarily agree with all he says, I feel that in his own way he is trying to ‘balance’ things out – I refer to the end of his last post
‘Robert says:- Logically I know and understand that the black people in interracial relationships with White people are in a relationship with an individual and that individual might be a wonderful kind person, but this is how I feel and I’m never going to like it, because in my mind White is associated with racism, hatred and oppression and I consider White people to be the enemy of Black people. My feelings about Black/White interracial relationships are not totally logical, but I feel they are understandable given the White supremacist society I have lived in all my life and the racism I have been subjected to by White people and continue to be subjected to daily.@
There doesnt seem to be the same disdain as seems to be apparent in your posts – and neither is he trying to enforce ‘his own’ exacting standards on to people – which again is how you are coming across. From Robert I feel there is mere on his part incomprehension as to why some people would choose to date interacially.
Both WP and BP – in fact, people period, have their own prejudices but in logging on and interacting on sites like this it is in the hope that ‘learning’ can occur.
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Demerera,
You wrote: “I beg to differ here history is NOT beside the point. It is the fundamenta basis for appreciating the context in which people write comments on this blog and their current feelings of societal perceptions therein. Its shocking that you do not see the link here.”
With due respect, I respond by writing that “I would prefer for you to quit accusing me of ignorance. It should not shock you that I do not see a link–you should know that I do see a link and quote me fully. I wrote that the WM today is incompatible for the BW. Though I recognize the history–that the WM today is incompatible makes the history irrelevant. We are talking of today’s pairings.”
You wrote: “Yes. Being Black and being Female can and does have its drawbacks in todays society. I am not going to elaborate here as this would potentially take this off topic suffice to say that if you as a BM you do not understand the meaning behind this then may I re-direct you back to the post on Rihanna for starters where you will get an little insight into what is meant by this.”
With due respect, I respond again, “Quit considering me ignorant and referencing me elsewhere. You are not reading my writings. I wrote that the WM doubly oppresses the BW. That’s clear. For you to then so much as suggest that I do not understand it and point me elsewhere is unbecoming. Maybe if you respected me enough, a lot of these phrases would not be typed.”
You wrote: “No, rape is certainly not the best word in this case and I must beg to differ here -you did equate the two, maybe not as overtly initially but the implication was clear.”
With due respect, I write, “My comment was allegorical. I initially commented to say that it disgusts me that African women rationalize the European man’s lack of predation, just as it would disgust me if a any woman wondered why she were not attacked by a rapist. Notice that the two are not equated. Now please refrain from lying on what I wrote.”
You wrote: “You are beginning to sound like a dictator here – just because it is not a ‘choice’ you agree with does not make it an incorrect or invalid choice. You talk about respect of BW and with that comes personal empowerment too. Allowing them the freedom to decide who they want to be with. Are you saying that BW are not smart enough to be able to decide their own life destiny? ”
With due respect, I write, “You know that I never commented on the intelligence of African women. Why ask me that question? What if I asked you–‘Do you hate all men and want to bomb your father’s house?’ would you notice how ugly these rhetorical questions are? Frankly, I find the behaviors on this internet rude. As to ‘sounding as a dictator,’ you should check your history. Many scholars have reviewed eight-thousand years of history and found Europeans as villains so frequently that any ‘learned’ opinion needs to place them thusly. Why are you so much wiser than our historians? Is it ‘freedom’ to lynch an African? Is it “freedom” to sleep with an oppressor?”
You wrote: “I want to point out that I am not trying to change your opinion – what you think is up to you but, when challenged, it is merely your own generalisations that come to the fore here. IMO forums like this are supposed to be a refreshing change to the generalisations and stereotypes which filter down like fables out of the mouths of some folk who post on here. Sure they can quote verbatim what their forefathers said and thought and back this up with articles, but a truly learned individual looks at both the pros and cons of any issue to bring forth a balanced point of view. What is apparent in your comments is that your own indoctrinate prevails and you are at times both dismissive and slightly derisive in terms of your responses – hence my comment on a previous post about arrogance. ”
With due respect, I write “I thank you for pointing to ‘arrogance’ but it appears to me that only I am up for critique. Though your friend accused me of being an entertainer (how nasty–African “opinions” are a matter of jest to this “BW”) and though your other friend continually claimed “Nordic Superiority” (WTF!), you only found it fit to comment on my ‘arrogance’ and ‘dictatorial’ manners, and how, as a “BM,” I should mind your, the universal “BW” (apparently), relationships, though, frankly, I do not care if you sleep with WM. Trust me–if you wrote–every day I sleep with a WM–I would not lose sleep. I have written, again, that the WM is unfit for a BW and that the discourse of BW on why WM do not marry them disgusts me. I never wrote that you, nor your friend, can’t sleep with a WM–I do not care.”
You wrote: “Whilst I know that you are not alone in your opinion and your outlook therein, the difference between you and a poster like Robert is that he has his own opinion which seems to have been shaped and moulded by his life. Whilst I dont necessarily agree with all he says, I feel that in his own way he is trying to ‘balance’ things out – I refer to the end of his last post ”
With due respect, I write, “Well, I ‘balanced’ things out. I am a student of African History, Philosophy, Culture and Religions; as well European History, Philosophy, Culture and Religions. I balanced it out. It’s disturbing that whereas you allow the ‘balance’ on your part, you do not allow it on my part. Maybe you should ask more questions rather than dismissing more answers?”
You wrote: “Both WP and BP – in fact, people period, have their own prejudices but in logging on and interacting on sites like this it is in the hope that ‘learning’ can occur.”
With due respect, I write, “Please notice that, according to your narrative, you are the learned party in this discussion and I am the unlearned party. Why do you think that, that is?”
Demerera, you have used the word ‘arrogant’ and ‘dismissive’ to me; but why? Have I dismissed what you written? Have I called you ‘unlearned?’ Have I said “Do not sleep with White men?” as you tell me I have. Listen, Demerera, if you want to sleep with a White man, go for it. Does that make you feel better?
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@Onitaset
You said: As to citing Bulanik, don’t. Some “Black” people would lynch other Africans as an expression of freedom. I am done with those “Blacks.”
I have not seen anything that Bulanik has written that suggests that she would ‘sacrifice’ herself, POC or anyone on this blog. This is entirely uncalled for and extremely unfair given that you have had a ‘few’ exchanges with her where you dont see eye to eye.
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Demerera,
That subject is worth no discussion. I will simply refer you to the “few” exchanges. Reread them objectively and you will see how fair and ‘called for’ it is. Otherwise, I am not interested in that dialogue.
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Thank you, Demerera. I appreciate what you have written, and hope there are those who can learn from it.
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Demerera wrote, re: Onitasit:
I want to point out that I am not trying to change your opinion – what you think is up to you but, when challenged, it is merely your own generalisations that come to the fore here.
Spot on, Demerera. Onitasit speaks in sweeping generalizations that would cause even a small child to wrinkle their brow in confusion. I do not know where Onitaset studied, but most of what he writes would be unpassable in even a technical school. Learned? Please.
Here is what Onitaset wrote:
That said, i am very rational, I have pointed out that no where do Europeans even have a concept of good–this is why your people did what they did to Africans. What I realize, that you do not, is that your people never improved intellectually, spiritually or morally. That said, I “rationally” put that you are the same people to be rejected.
Onitaset makes a gargantuan generalization that has to be fact-checked. He writes, ‘this is why your people did what they did to Africans.’ He makes no differentiation between the English/Spanish/French slave traders and Bavarian farmers, or Danish shoemakers. He applies the term ‘European’ to all people in an intellectually lazy way, to suggest that ALL Europeans were slave traders. Laughable on its face. Like some say, the bigger the lie, the more likely people are to believe it. Do not make lazy generalizations, Onitaset. You will get checked. Secondly, Onitaset writes, ‘your people never improved intellectually, etc.’ Umm, Onitaset, there are peoples in cultures all over the world, far and wide, who are undereducated, for various reasons. Europe is actually one of the most highly-educated places in the world. I, for one, admire the importance placed on social issues and symbiosis between government and corporations/business that makes society better. That being said, there are many educated societies in many places. Your generalization makes a sweeping statement about ALL people of one group. Very false. Finally, I would suggest, again, that you take a look at yourself and search what makes you say and believe what you do. As others have pointed out to you, you can do what you like with your life, and no one else will see it as rejection.
Finally, you write:
As to citing Bulanik, don’t. Some “Black” people would lynch other Africans as an expression of freedom. I am done with those “Blacks.”
Citing another seems entirely appropriate when the shoe fits.
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truthonly
You wrote: “Spot on, Demerera. Onitasit speaks in sweeping generalizations that would cause even a small child to wrinkle their brow in confusion. I do not know where Onitaset studied, but most of what he writes would be unpassable in even a technical school. Learned? Please. ”
I return to ask you: “Why is it that you can quote a film and consider yourself ‘learned’ but that I realize you to descend from utter monsters I am ‘unlearned?’ The Northern Europeans were historically more brutal than the Southern Europeans –this is ‘learned’ knowledge for at least the last 2,000 years. Read “Natural History” by Pliny the Elder.
You wrote: “He makes no differentiation between the English/Spanish/French slave traders and Bavarian farmers, or Danish shoemakers. ”
I respond, “Again, ask yourself why Ancient Rome had a wall to the North, or why Ancient China had a wall to the North, but neither had walls to the South. I am talking about a people based upon their ancient cultures as passed down to them. The Bavarian farmer and the Danish shoemaker may seem innocent, but, as I expose elsewhere, for instance, the Danes have had a secret racist organization that was so secret it involved politicans, policeman and businessmen: http://www.todayszaman.com/news-253855-businessmen-cops-among-members-of-danish-racist-group.html
That Bavarian farmer could just as well be like the Norweigan man who killed 77 people earlier this year. You want to make believe that Europeans have ‘ethnic differences’ but they do not. By and by, any review of history will show that these are a savage people.
Ghandi was asked [though I hear it might be someone else], “What do you think of Western Civilization?” He responded: “I think it would be a very good idea.” Is Ghandi now unlearned, too?”
You wrote: “Do not make lazy generalizations, Onitaset. ”
I respond, “Lazy is not a good word to use to an African person.”
You wrote: “Europe is actually one of the most highly-educated places in the world.”
I respond, “Yes, to White people because White people universally oppress African people. Do you know about ‘Black Wall Street.’ In America, it was BOMBED by airplane. Whites in America saw it fit to BOMB parts of their own country. THAT’S something for you to digest.
If you want to talk about good Whites–talk about that racist organization in Denmark! Talk about that killer in Norway! Talk about “WHITE FLIGHT!” Then realize that you can’t mention “GOOD WHITES.” Where is the organization of “GOOD WHITES?” I looked at Haiti and saw ‘volunteers’ drinking fine wine and eating big steaks; while Africans nearby starved. You want to believe yourself “Good” but all you are doing is talking down to me and citing MOVIES to say how much smarter you are than I am. Seriously, “check yourself.”
To wit, look how you praise Europe, how you generalize Europe as the most highly educated–dismissing naturally the Africans–and you accept this as normal speech–as do those soi-disant freely thinking Africans! Just check yourself. Review your own history and tell me whether you don’t see a certain monstrousness within the European. Do an honest review. And stop quoting MOVIES–deal with REALITY. You talk about ‘rationality’ in one sentence then talk about ‘telepathically bending spoons.’ Get over yourself.
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Thank you, Bulanik. Your last post, in my mind, closed the arduous chapter of this topic that has been going on for awhile now. I would call it game, set, and match.
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@Bulanik
If an individual’s intimate life is a microcosm of the bigger, ‘macro’ world, how do other people control something which is absolutely none of their business?
Well, they can’t
I think you have aptly and succinctly summed this up. The frustration is so palpable that it is thrust right out there for all to see. There is no engagement, merely expectations and standards.
I also echo truthonly in terms of the fact that this particular tangent. Its difficulte to engage and interact with people where you can see that its taking its emotional toll on them. I come on here in the hope of having an open discussion with men, – not to be dictated to.
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Should read
*I also echo truthonly in terms of the fact that this particular tangent. Its difficult*
I also echo truthonly in terms of his feelings about this particular tangent. Its difficult
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@Bulanik, Demerera,
To Blacknost! I will include it with my New Year’s toast!
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Apparently, I am one of the twenty-one dictators of Africa.
Good grief! Malcolm X’s allegory on “House Negroes” reigns true.
In attacking the European exploiter in America, these overhearing African women ask the exploiter, “Are we being attacked boss?”
Meanwhile, no one but the “House Negroes” can tell when I dictated to African women, when I attacked African women, or when I denied the African woman her humanity. Everyone knows when the European man did–but what’s that matter–BLACKNOST!!!
I am not surprised at truthonly or Bulanik for the silliness. But Demerara really had me going with her tone. I thought perhaps she would say comparing a commenter to a dictator of a nation is a ridiculous slanderous hyperbole. Though, I suppose that I always knew better. “Objective” commenters and their egos.
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@Onitaset
You seem to typically choose to read and trying to find evidence just to support your already prefixed mandate and ideology. Saying that love and compassion do not exist in European culture (uh, Shakespere?) sounds that you have actually not either read said historians and philosophers or then not just understood what you read.
Does it not occur to you that people do not agree with you because your ideas and thoughts are so very DISAGREEABLE and against humanistic ideals so many people here seem to believe in -and rightly so.
It also seems that Bulanik and Demerera -two intelligent women with beautiful minds- are too hard to handle for you, and your inability to logically (or in any other convincing way) refute their claims results in your defeat. Knock-out my friend, knock-out. You’ve met your Mike Tysons. I’d advice you not to resort to ad hominems considering said ladies (or any other women for that matter). Not very gentlemanly of you, sir. To me you can be as nasty as you wish by my personal permission. Your hammer is not heavy enough to dent my armour. 😀
We can see who you are. Demerera was spot on describing you as a despot, because that is exactly how you behave. Back-pedaling and whining that you were not quoted in verbatim when your intentions were clear as day to anyone with a brain just makes you look desperate.
You seem to have this extreme desire to control women’s and especially BW’s sexuality, trying to stump them into some mindless breeding cattle. Not really appreciating them as thinking, intelligent individuals able to form their own views by actually being open to the world and the fruits it has to offer. I suggest you adopt the same attitude, it will do you good and will fix your twisted vision.
As to the ‘Nordic supremacy’. You also have no sense of humour, it seems. Surely you must’ve noticed that I was yanking your chain. And me actually appreciating nordic societies for their apparent virtues does in no way suggest that I would look down on other countries or cultures -I reserve that to the way I treat individuals.
You see what you want to see, and my friend, it is not the truth.
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I figured that we were done with the ‘confrontation.’ Which honestly was initiated by you–for you did open your remarks to me by calling me a ‘coward.’ I do not care to have a confrontation with White folk. At that moment, I figured it fun to lambast a White man on a theological basis–which is what I did. So we can just talk, if that’s alright.
Hannu, you know that I only insulted White men. I know that I only insulted White men. But where are we coming off with this I insulted Black women?
If I call the White man a rapist (as you say)–and seek to prove the White man as a rapist (as you asked)–how am I insulting the Black woman (especially when I mentioned that White women too suffered?)
Have you ever at once told a woman that a man was bad for her and insulted that woman in the same breath?
You understand that “House Negro” is a comment on a person whom, not being accosted, assumes being accosted because a White person is accosted.
As to humour and yanking one’s chain–there is a time and place. Besides, I can tell that you are back pedaling, for never in your Nordic praises did you address me.
Finally, is this ‘mindless cattle’ talk serious or are people in conspiracy to paint me as terrible for insulting White men? For I never even mentioned reproduction.
I ask that you answer honestly. At the moment, I am reading of the rapes in Somalia to prepare a post and this topic of me being a “Black woman-hating dictator of Africa” really doesn’t compare.
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“Onitaset
Oh, go back and look at your wrtings with insencerity. You DID insult both Bulanik and Demerera. Man up.
You still don’t seem to understand that your ‘allegorical’ writing has bitten you in the ass. You did not write breeding cattle in verbatim, but that’s how you sound like. People do not only read what you WRITE, but they do also hear what you SAY.
Your attitude towards ‘white people’ is totally akin to that of white supremacists -whom I hate with a gusto, btw. And no, born white does not mean born evil or growing up in a totally evil societies. European or other western countries are far from being free of racism or being totally equal, but we must strive to that goal, in order to become better human beings.
I also hate gay bashers. People are born with irrefutable human rights, value and dignity. It is up to yourself how you use what you were born with. I suggest you start using it wisely, preferably constructively.
Anyways, I thank you, it has been fun!
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I meant to say “sincerity” of course. Sorry for the typo, Onitaset, the purest of hearts, king among men, prince of princes.
😉
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The chronology is off. Before I addressed either Demerera or Bulanik, the latter accused me of insulting ALL Black women. You finally accused me of viewing ALL Black women as cattle. But even if it’s said that I insulted these two women, I do not see when I insulted ALL Black women. I only see that I insulted ALL White men; mostly because of your (what’s considered) sexist “man up” language (which ironically goes unopposed.)
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@Onitaset
Well, APOLOGIZE to the ladies, Bulanik and Demerera, then.
I don’t expect you to apologize to ALL black women, white men or me.
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@Onitaset
In my ‘numbered’ response to you (above) I did NOT label you. I merely pointed out that with what you had written, you came across a certain way. (Please note, this is not in the chronological order of my original post). I have (hopefully) emboldened the relevant areas.
Note:-
Onitaset says: BW” talk of “double oppression” as “BW;” but from whom is this “oppression” beside “WM?” Of course the “WM” is universally unfit for “BW” today.
Demerera says: Yes. Being Black and being Female can and does have its drawbacks in todays society. I am not going to elaborate here as this would potentially take this off topic suffice to say that if you as a BM you do not understand the meaning behind this then may I re-direct you back to the post on Rihanna for starters where you will get an little insight into what is meant by this.
Note – ‘May I direct you. Not an imperative, just a suggestion. You are not a female and I dont know what your relationship status is – maybe you dont have a female you discuss issues like this with. This was purely an example – nothing more, nothing less.
Onitaset says: As to a freely choosing African–it’s ridiculous. A wrong choice results from a wrong education. One can choose ‘five’ to answer “two plus two equals” but that reflects on the education, not the question.
Demerera said: You are beginning to sound like a dictator here – just because it is not a ‘choice’ you agree with does not make it an incorrect or invalid choice. You talk about respect of BW and with that comes personal empowerment too. Allowing them the freedom to decide who they want to be with. Are you saying that BW are not smart enough to be able to decide their own life destiny?
Note:- I did NOT say you were a dictator, it was more a cautionary comment to say that this was how you were coming across in your comment. Accept or refute it – the choice is yours but in terms of the context of your statement, this is how you sounded. I ended my comment with an open ended question which you did not respond to either.
Demerera said: I want to point out that I am not trying to change your opinion – what you think is up to you but, when challenged, it is merely your own generalisations that come to the fore here.
…and also said: What is apparent in your comments is that your own indoctrinate prevails and you are at times both dismissive and slightly derisive in terms of your responses – hence my comment on a previous post about arrogance.
Again something which you can either accept or deny.
Saying that someone comes across as or sounds like something is NOT a definitive – it is, IMO an objective observation in terms of the particular reader. Unfortunately, I have seen no rebuttals from you. Instead, you throw your hands up in apparent confusion whilst still writing unpleasant diatribes aimed at commenters i.e. your piece featuring the footage of Malcolm X and your talk of “House Niggers”. Yet, you seem to be saying that people are interpreting your comments incorrectly, if so, please enlighten us.
I dont doubt that you have much knowledge to share, but at the moment it is shrouded by arrogance. Surely you must see that the key to learning is to keep an open mind ?
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White man, “House Negro” isn’t an insult.
Plus, do not tell me what to do. Besides, I have nothing for which to apologize.
As to this new “I am the ad hominemer” it’s ridiculous. I was called arrogant, I was called hateful to Black women, I was accused of finding Black women unintelligent, I was informed that a White man is smarter than me (LOL as if), and never were my points addressed–though I am the only person making arguments.
Now supposedly in accusing me of having a psychological profile of one of the 21 dictators in Africa; because I don’t address the ludicrous hypothesis, I am considered as ‘without merit in debate.’
It’s very laughable.
One person quotes movies to dismiss the idea that White people are racists (How childish!). One person says that the Bible is irrelevant to Western thought (An incredibly stupid opinion). One person says that, of the two billion Africans in Africa and out, I am like the twenty-one in governmental positions (Utter idiocy.) And the other person, wants me to be “Balanced” but finds all this other nonsense acceptable (good grief.)
I do not concern myself with your egos. At the end of the day, I sweat trying to work for the liberation of African people. Personally, if these “Black” women sweat to liberate their underwear for European men, I do not see them as worthwhile even in discussion. And I am being honest. What more do you want?
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@Onitaset
Yes, black women are great! Intelligent, warm, sexay…
I highly recommend you to try one, if you happen to find one that would be interested in you.
I promise you, brother, you are in for a treat.
Just try it, man!
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@Onitaset
Dictators are the greatest and most broad-minded of lovers:
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Very true. I love the African woman so much. I find all other women hideously ugly. And I do not mean that to joke. Truly, the only flattering features in non-African women, to me, are their African features. But my do I love African women.
I sometimes can not control my gawking. I do not blame the European man for his attraction, just look at his woman, but I find his predation disgusting. That’s my opinion.
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^
Yes ANY man who finds a ‘mate’ to meet with on a spiritual and intellectual level is a lucky man. They say there is someone out there for EVERYONE but sometimes as women, you have to kiss a few frogs before you find your prince 😉
@Bulanik/Hannu
An idiot who desires a ‘Balanced’ POV is laughable? As a married woman, me and my ‘ilk’ are sweating to ‘liberate’ our underwear for the European man – why? Because I queried some statements made by another commenter? WTF
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@Onitaset
I’m glad we have the same taste!
And glad that the black women I’ve had have really enjoyed me…niomm.
You should stop admiring from afar and try to approach one! Nothing like the first time you know.
If you need any hints and advice on black women, I’m more than happy to provide.
But now I have to go to bed, it’s getting late (12.30 pm)
Later, bro!
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@Onitaset
White man, “House N*gro” isn’t an insult.
Come on Onitaset – you can do better than that. It is a pejorative comment which is demeaning when aimed at an individual and suggests that the individual is so misguided that they are more likely to support anything that favours WP.
You may just as well have said Uncle Tom – again another derogatory statement which suggests ‘low status’ and ‘subservience’ to WP.
I cant believe you are bandying these comments out there without considering carefully the negative impact they have had historically and still have in the present day.
Why is it that you are suddenly referring to Hannu in the Second Person, particularly when he agrees with you in terms of his appreciation of BW?
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Comical.
A White man pays for sex then becomes a lecturer on women.
I will save your advice in my reject pile. Picking up a phone book and finding which women are hookers isn’t my modus operandi.
Good, accurate, humor. Get to bed.
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Hannu Lipponen
His attitute is reactive to White supremacy.
I’ve sampled some of your women Black Nationalist and they were wonderful, ha ha ha ha neh neh neh neh put that in your pipe and smoke it. Nice.
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No Demerera, you should do better.
Again. In my addressing a White man, you come to his defense. That’s what a “House Negro” does and that’s why Malcolm X said it. I provided the primary source, review it. It would be an insult to me–as I never defend Whites. But this is what you and yours did.
Remember–I called the White man a rapist, then you all said that I insulted Black women. That’s a “We sick boss?” I for one tragically love African women (yes, tragically), yet in attacking a White man, “Black” women came to his defense claiming that I attacked them. Again “We being attacked boss?” If you can tell me how this differs from Malcolm X’s usage, please enlighten me. Otherwise, maybe you guys should start reading arguments rather than conclusions.
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See–though these White men vaunt their racial conquests–just as their forefathers did–these same “Black” women do not address this disrespect.
The only disrespect apparently is my talking bad about these same White men who portray what these same “Black” women believe are loving relationships as “sampling” and something to brag in front of “Black nationalists.”
Go figure! I love it.
Every one enters a conversation with a motivation. I have exposed the nature of White folk. These “Black” women have attacked a “Black” man in front of White men who, just as their forefathers, wish to conquer the African race.
Go figure!
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Sweet talking Demerara,
I just noticed your above post with “Notes.” It’s horrible. You still misread, then claim to be an objective reader. What are your motivations in this whole outfit? Why are you pestering me? You have White men vaunting their conquest of women like you. You have White men boasting of Nordic traditions. And you have a Black man claiming White men intolerable. So you choose to attack the Black man. Why? What good does it you to attack me? What good does it any Black reader for you to attack me? Please describe. Your whole “notes” bit is horrible because you keep missing the big picture. You say that I sound like a dictator–when ‘multiple choice’ was a reference to the academy (I even wrote a primary school addition problem!!)!!! You say that you will direct me to evidence for a claim that I myself made (as if I would make the claim and then ask YOU for evidence!) And you even change the language of “House Negro” for what? I never wrote the n-word. I do not write the n-word. Malcolm X did not there use the n-word. Yet somehow you changed my term to the n-word and for what purposes? It’s a horrible, horrible notes and imagine that I was nearly fortunate enough to overlook it. What motivates you hear? Why do you insist on pestering me? Why do you insist that I am wrong when White men around us are calling you a sample and treating you like objects to get at me and vaunting their Nords and European societies? What’s your deal?
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@Robert
Relationships are not about winning prizes, either black or white. Any person who is getting into a relationship with someone based on winning prizes has totally got the wrong end of the stick. Your husband or wife should not be a trophy in a relationship…..This is not the olympics.
Relationships are about love, trust, friendship, teamwork, values, communication, privacy…Just a few things I can think of off the top of my head.
I think the fact that some people think relationships are about winning prizes, that is one of the main problems and barriers of entry to a good relationship of whatever colour denomination. Also, the fact that some people will discuss everything about their so called relationships or lack of with everybody except the person they claim to like or love and that’s why most of the time, nothing happens.
If two people love each other, regardless of colour, I think that concerns the people who like/love each other and nobody else. Everything else is just opinion and frankly you can’t please everybody, otherwise most people would be unhappy because there is always someone somewhere who objects to something…..Too tall, too short, too black, too white, ugly, pretty, fat, skinny, fashionable, not fashionable….Oh, give me a break.
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@Onitaset
You said: Very true. I love the African woman so much. I find all other women hideously ugly. And I do not mean that to joke. Truly, the only flattering features in non-African women, to me, are their African features. But my do I love African women.
I sometimes can not control my gawking.
So, whilst you are ‘gawking’ and even if you turn out to be the best thing since sliced bread, what are BW supposed to do whilst waiting for you to decide who you want? You are but one man, are you not? Are they supposed to wait in line for you to decide which you want after dissmissing those that are too fat/thin/ugly/old – whatever your preference may be? I assume you dont practice polygamy so, when you have met your ‘mate’ do you really want to deny all other women the chance to find someone to be with?
You said: Remember–I called the White man a rapist, then you all said that I insulted Black women. That’s a “We sick boss?”
You talk about chronology but you have twisted my comments and made them your own. I asked you the question Are you saying that BW are not smart enough to be able to decide their own life destiny? Nothing more, nothing less.
You said: I for one tragically love African women (yes, tragically), yet in attacking a White man, “Black” women came to his defense claiming that I attacked them. Again “We being attacked boss?”
Here is what I said: Why is it that you are suddenly referring to Hannu in the Second Person, particularly when he agrees with you in terms of his appreciation of BW?
Previously, you have referred to him by name and whilst you may not like what you think he represents, he has asserted his appreciation of BW – it was a ‘question’ not an attack.
You said: If you can tell me how this differs from Malcolm X’s usage, please enlighten me. Otherwise, maybe you guys should start reading arguments rather than conclusions.
It is YOU choosing to use these words in the here and now to label BP. Your responses so far have been rather peevish and in fact, although I am loathe to say it, often have more in common with some of the shameless and presumtuous commenters that troll on here.
Clearly we will have to agree to disagree the whole conversation is becoming tedious and seems to be full of continual misunderstandings and misinterpretations.
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And Happiness reveals the big picture.
I disagreed with the premise of the discussion of White men with Black women, comparing it to rapists with rape victims.
Hannu then called me a coward (attacking me) and defied me to assert how White men were rapists. I never considered it, but to get at him, I wrote a pretty good piece to that effect.
From there, it was a mini race war, but two House Negroes did not understand.
So even after truthonly, Hannu, and Robert attacked myself, Africans proper or African women specifically, the House Negroes still swung on their side.
Finally, Happiness let it known that this ‘mini war’ was unproductive. And here we are ‘after the war’ and these Housies didn’t even know a war was happening.
Anyone with any level of reading skills knows that I only wanted to (intelligently) insult White people. So what’s with these “Black” women that they sought to attack me? That’s what I want to know.
Robert knew that I was only insulting White people. Hannu knew. truthonly knew. These White men knew the deal. I even admitted that I only insulted White people. But these Black women said that I insulted them, asked about BM and WW pairings and questioned my psychological profile, etc.
Despicable. If these are “Black” women, trust me, I would not care less if the likes of those White men were their bedfellows.
Absolutely despicable.
—
Look at Demerera’s continual delusions. Everyone besides these women know that I am insulting White people–Demerera, what’s my perception of the intelligence of African women have to do with how bad the White man is?
These women need to read–“WHAT IS YOUR MOTIVATION?”
More, I already said, go sleep with a White man, Demerera. So do not ask me about what Black women are to do–I told you that I do not care for your love life. I insulted White men. I even said that White men were unfit for WHITE WOMEN. I know WHITE WOMEN should go for White men, though. Understand? You are probing and analyzing in an irrelevant, limited perspective. I said that the White man is sexist, patriarchal and misogynist (what we all know) and advised every woman against him. Your questions on Black women are irrelevant to what I wrote.
You somehow want me to recommend White men. That’s bizarre considering what I write. Further, “Negro” is not the n-word. Check what you wrote.
We can agree to disagree, but you never made it clear what you agree with. You simply wanted me to recommend the White man. I do not know why.
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Happiness
Yes, but I don’t recall saying that relationships are about winning prizes.
Agreed.
The White supremacist society I live in puts White people on a pedestal as the epitome of human beauty, morality, intelligence, ingenuity, generosity and as the ultimate prize for a Black person and pushes that message everyday through it’s media, not me.
Agreed.
Well since we don’t live in a vacuum or on a desert island people will have their opinions especially when we’re dealing with a situation where there is one group of people who are oppressing, killing, sabotaging, robbing and humiliating another group of people everyday and members of the oppressed group are having relationships with and marrying members of the oppressor group, and the oppressor group promotes the idea through it’s media that Whites are evolved to human perfection and Blacks are inferior savages.
Too tall, too short, ugly, pretty, fat, skinny, fashionable, not fashionable is not comparable to the Black/White oppressor/oppressed situation, that is comparing apples and oranges in my opinion and trivialising White supremacist aggression against Black people.
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In response to Robert’s comments I think he is right. Here in the UK the media always promotes interracial couples between Black (particular BM/WW) and White people but you rarely see black couples highlighted which shows British society is not comfortable with seeing black love. This is very worrying because how does this affect the younger generation of black youth in particular Black boys attitude to Black love? At the moment you are seeing a large number of BM dating out in the UK and the effect on the Black community is telling, for example high number of single black women.
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On the subject of African Dictators, where do these sociopaths put the money they’ve plundered from their country? In Swiss Bank accounts. Who supports and arms these people? Who installs them?
Then when these puppet sociopaths destroy their countries and their people what do these cynical b*stards who orchestrated it say on their TV and in their Newspapers? “Why can’t you people ever get it together and build a civilized prosperous country? Why are you always fighting each other? You were better off under our rule during colonialism.”
Who is the Bane of the Black man’s existence?
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@Onitaset
The reason the women who are in interracial relationships get angry with your comment about all WM/BW relationships being rape is because its not the beat them up, knock em’ out, put a knife to their throat and tear off their clothes rape.
Which means it can only be rape that falls under “unable to give informed consent” rape, its rape if these women are unable to mentally make a legitimate decision here and are mentally inferior.
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Well put Afrobit and Robert.
V-4, I recognize that, but find it off of my motivation.
[By the way, my other post went to moderation. All for the better I suppose.]
Truly, I was returning Hannu’s taunt with a slander. Normally, I would not respond in kind, but at the time I felt too.
I understand that Black women feel as though they are caught in the cross-fire, but when I enunciated that White women too were victims of the White man, it should have been clear that this was not about the Black woman and her intelligence.
As to informed decisions, everyone is capable of an informed decision, but whether everyone makes those is another question. For instance, if asked whether pre-dynastic Egypt was predominately, if not completely, Black, many, Blacks and Whites would answer “No” though the answer is “Yes.” Which is the informed decision? It seems to me that Black women are suggesting that if they answer “No” to this question, they are still making “informed decisions.” But then the meaning is skewed. Are there divers truths?
That’s another question, but again irrelevant to my motivation in returning Hannu’s slander threefold.
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….But these Black women said that I insulted them, asked about BM and WW pairings and questioned my psychological profile, etc…..
On the 29th December 2011 Hannu said:-
“Onitaset
Oh, go back and look at your wrtings with insincerity. You DID insult both Bulanik and Demerera. Man up.
Considering, as seems to be suggested above, that I am deemed too stupid to decipher what has been said in the comments from Onitaset surely then it follows that I would not understand if I was being insulted personally by his remarks. As for trying to probe psychological profiles, please! Clearly the difference between a genuine question and an interrogation is lost here. Who would have thought someone could have taken umbrage from people trying to find out more about how they come to have a particular POV.
….I even said that White men were unfit for WHITE WOMEN….
I certainly dont recall this said in any of your writings but I would have to absolutely disagree here. Many of these individuals deserve one another – particularly the morons who lurk on here ‘trolling’ this site.
Why do you insist on pestering me?
For the same reason that you insisted on badgering me but concern yourself no more. As I said in my previous comment, there is little point continuing this commentary which seems to be full of misinterpretation, misunderstanding and as is to be expected when you have the 2 former, misquoting.
Finally, I will do you the courtesy of not ‘pestering’ you any more – please do me the courtesy of not continually’badgering’ me.
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It is up to no one to dictate anybodies life and their so-called ‘intimate’ relationships. It is a personal choice. Okay, I got that.
It could also be personal choice to not recycle and harm or pollute the earth. It could also be personal choice to smoke around children and expose them to second hand smoking( A teacher did this to us in a classroom. She didn’t receive any repercussions, after all this was an inner city school), It could be my personal choice to become a scientist or a doctor and discover a treatment or a cure for a devastating illness.(that can have an effect on millions of lives, mind you).It could be personal choice to go drive intoxicated and crash into a van and ruin the lives of the family in it. It could be my personal choice to go out and harm a white person and somehow blacks EVERYWHERE( I mean the ones in the US) will be treated like crap because of it. It could also be my personal choice to harm myself and in the process, cause pain to my family and friends.
I learned from my West Indian parents, that when a men and a women form a union (marriage), It is to benefit not only themselves but also the community. The same belief is held in many parts of Africa. This western Idea of marriage is so screwed, they have some of the highest divorce rates on the planet.
Interracial marriages and the off-springs of these unions have historically been use to harm people of African descent. To you these unions form because of ‘love’ but to me it means something way deeper.It has something to do with the hatred of self or having no knowledge of self.People say ” you can’t help who you fall in love with”. Unless you believe in love at first sight, then yes you can control who you fall in love with. There has to be some type of level of self hatred for a person of African descent to pursue an intimate relationship with a person of European descent. If things were equal and these to races were on equal footing, If blacks were influenced by their own ideals instead of a group of people who hate them. I wouldn’t have a problem with it. You must understand though, We are not equal. There is a race of people who like Abagond said ‘have a foot on our necks’. To me instead of taking the interracial route, blacks should be focusing on themselves. Finding out ways we can cure the ailments of our communities, finding out ways to build our self esteem, and finding out ways to battle this monster called racism. We should be connecting with each other. If we can do that, not only will we be happier, the world would be a better place.
To me interracial relationships ( between a white and black person) is a distraction and a hinder to our growth.
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“If things were equal and these to races were on equal footing, If blacks were influenced by their own ideals instead of a group of people who hate them. I wouldn’t have a problem with it. You must understand though, We are not equal. There is a race of people who like Abagond said ‘have a foot on our necks’. To me instead of taking the interracial route, blacks should be focusing on themselves. Finding out ways we can cure the ailments of our communities, finding out ways to build our self esteem, and finding out ways to battle this monster called racism.”
***************************************
These views are parallel/similiar to the views of the eminent counter- racist philosopher, logician and author – Mr. Neely Fuller.
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@Onitaset
I have never, ever paid for sex, thank you.
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@Nana, you wrote:
There has to be some type of level of self hatred for a person of African descent to pursue an intimate relationship with a person of European descent. If things were equal and these to races were on equal footing, If blacks were influenced by their own ideals instead of a group of people who hate them. I wouldn’t have a problem with it.
This is an inherent contradiction. You said if things were equal, a person of African descent hates themselves if they pursue an intimate relationship with a person of European descent. Then, you write, if blacks were influenced by their own ideals, which we in the modern era take to mean possessing equal legal rights to practice their ideals, then it would be fine. The contortions on this blog are amazing! There is no amount of Advil, sedative, or even hard-core contraband that could rescue me from the mental spasms that seem to afflict some people. Just what do you believe? My sister married an Indian man; another sister dated and had a child with a black man. Your spite, yes, spite, masquerading as a benign affirmation of self-identity is really played out. My background is German, but how would i sound if the words you wrote came from my mouth, from my pen. Oh, the horror! I would be advocating racism, nationalism, etc., it would be so horrible. But in your view, it’s just a belief. When you write that a person has self-hatred to love another human being, you have lost touch with your humanity, which, sadly, you could not even realize from ruminating on ‘choice.’ yes, for you, choice is more about the here and now, like most people. You see choice as, ‘Do I buy lunch at Subway today, or do I buy a Big Mac?’ You see choice as, ‘Do I like that new Lady Gah-Gah song, or do I like that new Rihanna song?’ Choice, for me, is much deeper. It speaks to, ‘What kind of life energy do I want to be?’ ‘What kind of impact do I want to have in the ‘reality’ I live in? You wrote that you have West Indian parents. Wonderful, fantastic! But that is not the end- all, be-all definition of your existence. As the video I posted tried to say, to a degree you are defined and controlled by the parameters of your existence until you challenge said-posed parameters, parameters that were attached to your spirit unbeknownst to your waking mind. I find it AMAZING, JUST AMAZING that some of the biggest enforcers of same-group marriage, those clamoring the loudest about BW staying with BM, or AW staying with AM, or Hispanic women staying with Hispanic men, have no problem bedding down with any race if the ‘mood is right.’ All this nationalistic, paternalistic, culture-first is fine with you when it applies to just you, but it could not pass the smell test for even a second in any group of enlightened people anywhere in the world. Just for shits and giggles, since you believe so strongly in segregating cultures, go ahead and start a worldwide petition for all people everywhere to return to the countries they came from, or they grandparents came from, or their great-grandparents came from. That would be just such a smashing success, really (I’m kidding).
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Thank you, Bulanik, for checking Nana.
I understand how and why non-white men don’t want white men marrying black women or having children with them. It is a direct threat to the cultural construct. Again, many people use race or ethnic identity to define themselves, and what greater threat to the cultural construct than this. That being said, it is a matter of choice, and also a matter of respecting that choice. It’s comical, really; I try to imagine any other pairings generating this much controversy, the BW-WM pairing, and there aren’t. For what it’s worth, if I see a BM-WW pairing, I don’t go into seething spasms about how they must hate themselves. I say, ‘Well, good for them. They must really care about each other.’ If I see any other couples, of different race, or the same, whatever, I say the same thing. So, the original post by Abagond asked, ‘why so few white men marry black women?’, and from the hate written on this blog, people can see why. Small minds are numerous and trained by forces they do not even understand, or are even mildly aware of. The desert of the real, as Morpheus said.
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“Small minds are numerous and trained by forces they do not even understand, or are even mildly aware of. The desert of the real, as Morpheus said.”
Truthonly, are you a white person?
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I am a person, a human, but more importantly, energy. Energy does not have a color, your spirit does not have a color. It is either enlightened, or not, or it is trying to become enlightened. Go back and read my last post to get your answer to the question of what my outer construct is.
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I’ve only seen that you’ve defined yourself as German.
Thank you – for your response.
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@Nana:
Interracial marriages and the off-springs of these unions have historically been use to harm people of African descent.
—-
The operative words are “marriages” and “used.” I don’t understand how interracial marriage is some evil plot designed to harm black people. If you can, please explain.
@Nana:
To you these unions form because of ‘love’ but to me it means something way deeper. It has something to do with the hatred of self or having no knowledge of self.
—-
People of all ethnicities marry interracially and intraracially for various reasons… some good, some bad, some healthy, some not so healthy. To assume that all black people marry outside their race because they hate themselves or don’t know who they are is quite a stretch.
@Nana:
I learned from my West Indian parents, that when a men and a women form a union (marriage), It is to benefit not only themselves but also the community. The same belief is held in many parts of Africa.
—-
This is your opinion based on cultural values handed down to you by your parents. Just because a black person did not grow up with West Indian or (some) African values does not mean that he/she lacks values or has the wrong values. You referred to the word “community.” The word can mean different things to different people. There are black people all over the world who live in very diverse “communities.”
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You are welcome, Matari. I am American of German descent. Sorry if my response was brusque.
For me, this is a somewhat troubling blog, from the perspective that I have. See, the idea of profiling people on race, any people, and making general, hateful statements hits home. My father was slighted as a small child in America, during the last days of WW2, because he spoke German before he spoke English, and it was used to target him. Not all ‘White’ people are the same, there are those like my ancestors who looked into the abyss, walked to its doorstep, and for better or worse, their offspring have had, by all accounts, a positive role in the latter stages of the 20th century. I bristle at the idea of ‘Europeans,’ or ‘whites’ all being the same, because they are not. Not all Black people are drug dealers, not all Indian men run gas stations, not all Hispanic people are illegal immigrants, etc. etc. The danger of writing and saying things that are bigoted, even when done by perceived oppressed groups, is that less intelligent people, en masse, can come to believe such drivel and enact it as state policy. Sound familiar?
This blog, I think, had made merit earlier, but it descended to a place that I had a hard time imaging even existed. Humanity has a long, long way to go.
But, Matari, again, I apologize if I was brusque.
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Ooh, a heated debate…
@Bulanik
Sorry if I’ve ever offended you or anybody else. I don’t fully grasp the nuances of english language. I suppose I let my funny side to take the driver’s seat too often. Admittedly I do have a bit of a mean streak, but I need to keep it at check, if I really want to start contributing to this site.
Apologies, I need to read properly what was written to be able to be able to answer. Somehow this blog is so damn slow on my Safari. I seriously need a new iMac…
@Onitaset
I personally wasn’t offended by any means, let’s just keep on trucking!
Happy New Years to everybody, yes, Onitaset too!
🙂
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@Bulanik
They can’t. They may not like it but they have no choice but to accept it.
Ok, in making your point you did bring up the subject of African dictators and and made reference to the damage they do. I just wanted to point out their sponsors and partners in crime as that often gets left out in the Western media and that is a bugbear of mine. To be honest, I don’t really see where I put words in your mouth but I did refer to your post and quote part of your post so I apologise if that came across as tying you to an argument you never made.
No obedience is not required to be a true Black woman and the Black man is not entitled to dictate what choices the Black woman wants to make, I don’t think I’ve seen that advocated on this thread by anyone, but he is entitled to not agree with their choices and believe them to be detrimental. I don’t think disagreement and disapproval equals a desire to dictate.
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@Bulanik
Agreed. Well said.
I agree, Africans have to fight for and demand good governance real independence and self-determination and equitable distribution of wealth from the leaders of their countries. As well as that they also have to figure out how to outsmart and resist the outside interference from the White man who is a psychopathic enemy who will start to destabilize your country with a coup if he doesn’t like the self-determination and true independence that you are bringing about, create a bloody civil war and arm both sides, or destroy your economy through sanctions or other forms of economic warfare, or bomb it back to the Stone Age like the North Atlantic Terrorist Organisation did to Libya with advanced weaponry.
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@Robert
Seriously? Did you miss on purpose what Onitaset wrote and has been repeating over and over again? I believe that you are an honest guy, but are you deceiving yourself?
You do realize that that is EXACTLY what Onitaset is trying to do: dictate BW who they should and should not date and have a relationship with by retorics using contempt, quilt and intimidation.
It is quite human that people read what they want to hear and also omit what they don’t like, but come on.
It’s plain, obvious and RIGHT THERE.
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@Hannu Lipponen
Honestly, the way I read him he expressed his honest opinion in a combative fashion, it didn’t seem dictatorial to me.
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No, Robert is honest. I never dictated or commented on any Black woman exclusively.
A summary of events is as follows:
In my first post here I wrote (clearly saying that NO ONE [man, woman or dog] should consider the White man a capable suitor; the self-hatred comment may seem to Black women, but that’s to not be repetitive, not to seem exclusive):
It disturbs me whenever Black women debate whether White men are capable suitors (or Black men on White women). It’s so historically detached. I can admit that the machine makes us think like this, but it still disturbs me.
I reason nothing but self-hatred can attract a Black woman to a White man. He of such incomparable evil and hatred.
Ann wrote:
Self hatred could be one reason. Another is to propel oneself to a higher level within society.
I wrote (Notice that this is a response to the above post):
I feel sorry for the Sister who embraces the exploiter of her race (putting it kindly), solely to enjoy a fraction of what she could had she not volunteered to abet this exploiter but instead organized alongside her Siblings against him and his.
. . .
It disturbs me that African women even rationalize the European man’s lack of predation. I find that the conversation should ne’er occur. These women should be thankful rather than dialoguing on the weaknesses or ‘racist-attitude’ of these men. It strikes me as a woman wondering why a rapist doesn’t attack her.
. . .
The eloquent Nana agreed: Well said Onitaset. 😀 I agree completely.
Then Bulanik wrote:
Marrying is raping?
Where I wrote: No marrying is not raping. Why do you ask?
Then Hannu Lipponen wrote (to antagonize me): Why not just answering Bulanik’s question rather than just avoiding it. Not very couragious nor very productive to the overall DISCUSSION. If that is what you want.
. . .
Then I wrote (to antagonize Hannu but inform African people [still clearly being about the White man and not ‘dictating to Black or White women’]): Hannu Lipponen,
It is my understanding that Bulanik’s point was that rape is offtopic, as evinced in Bulanik’s link to a topic on rape. Maybe you should ask Bulanik to be less sarcastic in the future.
As to your question on White men and relationships. It is very interesting.
Europeans are by and by a hateful people. Hateful to themselves, hateful against women, and hateful to God.
. . .
Then Demerera (accusing me of writing off Black women though I only ‘wrote off’ White men) wrote:
Admittedly, I am still discovering how things are in the U.S in terms of inter racial relations in all areas of life however, it saddens me to think that BM, raised by strong BW would literally ‘write off’ a BW in terms of their choice of mate, not acknowledging the fact that these women are smart and capable enough to make decent choices in their lives. Surely this can’t be the case?
Bulanik (agreeing with Demerera–accuses me of being emotionally incapable of independent Black women–but again no where in the above posts do I say that or focus on Black women): But, as in this instance, it seems, some people cannot cope emotionally with a show of agency or intellectual independence in bw, and this springs out of something rather different….
—
That said, one can read clearly that never did I dictate to the Black woman. I specifically repeated that the White man was a bad partner FOR ANYONE and in responding to a comment on ‘marriage as prostitution’ I said that I felt sorry for such a union.
One can also read that the two “Black” women who wrote me, began accusing me of not appreciating the intelligence of Black women or being emotionally incapable of dealing with the independence of Black women. Both of which are incredibly hurtful accusations. But one should notice that neither of these accusations have a basis in what I wrote, as I only wrote against the White man.
That said, the term “House Negro” was always apt. Anyone can review the chronology of these posts in this thread and see that this sequence that I laid out does not miss anything.
I was quickly attacked and ad hominemed by “Black” women for attacking the White man. That’s “We’re being attacked boss?”
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Hannu,
Every White man pays for sex, and they pay more for sex with Africans.
Your taxes and consumer habits fund your patriarchy. But more, these taxes and consumer habits, through war, television, radio, war, drug trade, war, slavery, education, slavery, war, internet, and so forth, make Africans go to Europe (or European America) “voluntarily” and in their fits of bad opportunities, mixed with racism, mixed with sexism, completed with hatred, these African women “voluntarily” become prostitutes or take up European suitors to get by in a foreign, hateful land.
Though, this is the indirect payment. When you stop your car by a woman in high heels on a corner, that’s a direct payment.
Sex Tourism–destroying a nation then visiting, offering a livelihood in exchange for sex. Europeans . . ..
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Sarcasm:
A “dictator” tells you that your spouse is cheating on you; advising you of your bad partnership.
A “dictator” would confess she had an STD; dictatorially warning against the relationship.
A “dictator” tells you Europeans have a hateful culture, a statement verified by truthonly’s testimony of WWII abuses on his father, a statement verified by Hannu’s assertion of atheism, a statement verified by the sheer number of soldiers in Iraq, a statement verified by the system of slavery in America, a statement verified by the European support of DICTATORS IN AFRICA, a statement verified by Colonialism, a statement verified by the insults Africans face in sports, a statement verified by Rihanna’s treatment in Danish media, a statement verified by sex tourism–going to a destroyed country for cheap sex; this ‘dictator’ in informing people may as well steal wealth from a country and kill citizens–what’s the difference?
I’ll roll my eyes.
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“We getting attacked boss?”
QED.
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What specifically has Onitaset said that you consider dictatorial?
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Bulanik,
Just as Hannu does not think that he can conclusively call me a virgin (he can’t). I do not think that I can conclusively say he funds prostitutes. He jested at my sexual life so I jested at his sexual life (while making a larger commentary on imperialism.)
However, we are mocking each other because I do not like Europeans and he does not like people who do not like Europeans.
All stated, for what are you mocking me? You told your personal story of being mocked by others–but what’s that to do with me? I’m mocking a White man.
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@Bulanik
With all due respect that’s answering a question with a question.
Well Onitaset has a very definite idea of what he believes in regards to interracial relationships and according to what he said he holds White men in such contempt he regards them as unfit for White and Black women and believes it is detrimental to Black women and a manifestation of low self-esteem and self-hatred for them to be romantically involved with White men as he considers them hateful indivdually and as a group. That is an opinion, you may find it deplorable but all it is an opinion, he has no power over anyone over the internet and can impose nothing. Is his manner provovative? yes. Is he arrogant? by his own admission yes.
Haven’t seen any threads with that yet, but if an arrogant male tries to school you I’m confident you can hold your own, and even end up schooling him. 😉
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@Onitaset
You should really stop harassing Bulanik. It’s getting creepy. You seem to be obsessed of her.
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no, Hannu he is just responding to what she said.
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Oh, come on Nana. He’s desperately resorted to cheap shots against her and not being able to defend his views logically and/or consistently.
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How to get a white man in three easy steps!
1. Go to a truck stop. These men are always up for anything and there are plenty of these white men there!
2. Put on a mini-skirt, wear no underwear, and be sure to wear stilettos also.
3. Once you get to the truck stop wearing such provocative attire, proceed to bend over constantly under the guise of picking up change or something like that. You will soon get a white man.
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@Bulanik
Ok so we disagree on this, you see him as dictatorial and I haven’t seen any conclusive evidence for it yet, but to insinuate I’m another poster in response to my responding sincerely to a question you asked me and to imply I’m Onitaet’s shoe shiner I think is unkind and unnecessary, especially as I’ve always addressed you in a respectful manner.
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Herneith is such a beautiful name!
Hotep!
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Oh and thank you Nana and Robert.
You all have beautiful names too. 🙂
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Heck you too Bulanik and Demerera. 🙂
It’s true that Africans can make anything look good.
Any African I missed, your name too is beautiful.
Looking at you Abagond!
Though, I like the name Herneith a lot.
Hotep!
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@Bulanik
I’ve been using that phrase way before I’ve read anything Onitaset has said, it’s a fairly commonly used phrase. Ironically I used it so you didn’t take my answering a question with a question comment as an insult. I take it the Shoeshiner comment still stands since you did not mention it. That is disappointing.
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Onitaset
“4.As to a freely choosing African–it’s ridiculous. A wrong choice results from a wrong education. One can choose ‘five’ to answer “two plus two equals” but that reflects on the education, not the question.”
Demerera
“You are beginning to sound like a dictator here – just because it is not a ‘choice’ you agree with does not make it an incorrect or invalid choice. You talk about respect of BW and with that comes personal empowerment too. Allowing them the freedom to decide who they want to be with. Are you saying that BW are not smart enough to be able to decide their own life destiny?”
Is his view adamant and unbending? Yes. Onitaset belives that what he believes on interracial relationships is the definitive truth and that the other view is wrong. Do dictators generally believe that only what they believe is the truth and any other view is wrong? Yes . That is the only similarity I can see with a dictator, but that way of thinking is not limited to dictators many people believe their truth is the only truth with no desire to impose their truth on anyone else. I was asked if I believe Onitaset tried to dictate his truth to anyone and I haven’t seen that, he just expressed and reiterated his beliefs and defended what he considers to be the truth. I saw no attempt to impose his view on anyone else.
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I like it too.
@Onitaset
Robert is a european name :O
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Robert is your name.
Etymologically European (Yes), but assuredly African (as you are).
I am not in the business of insulting Africans.
Still, it’s kind of like that old phrase “You look two years older than you are.”
In reality, one can’t (naturally) look older than they are. One always looks their age. That’s the same with the name.
I admit, though, maybe I less compliment the name and more compliment our race and you. The name on another race wouldn’t be as beautiful.
Much like how not every woman would stun in the same dress.
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Bulanik
@Nana
Did I say that? People can use their free will to do both good and evil. Yes it is good free will to separate. Is it okay to you that a group of people have total control over economic, political, and social domination of another people?
Cool
No, the preferred remedy
– To guide other blacks to make the right choices
– To acknowledge that people of mixed race ( black and white mixture) can be used to create division amongst our people
Nothing. I know for sure they are adding nothing to the black experience. Most of them see themselves higher than those of full African ancestry and they act on it. They also operate under white supremacy. (You can learn how the afro Cubans, afro Dominicans, afro Boricuas are treated amongst these mixed people)
Cruelty? Okay….
Tough love, that’s what we need sometime, no? I’ve met and interacted with many like her before and trust me, they are a lost cause.
No, I only scorn, have a disdain, cruelly judge, and put down the CHOICES those blacks have made to be in an interracial relationship with a white person.
It has worked before, so…why not?
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truthonly
@Nana, you wrote:
I think you need to reread what I typed.
Cool
Not cool.
I honestly wouldn’t care.
No, I do believe that a black person does have self-hatred to be with any members of a group of people who severely hates them.
What is that suppose to mean. A person who wants to be with a person of their race secretly desires every other race?
It has worked for thousands of years before. It would be of great advantage to African people.
I plan on it. 😉
@ truthonly
She didn’t check me on anything.
Do you really? I doubt it…
Yes many people use race or ethnic identity to define themselves mainly because it SHAPES their lives, their outcomes, the way they are treated, their life experiences.
I won’t respect a choice if it has negative outcomes.
There is a reason for that
I too, except for the black-white pairings, of course.
The hate that hate produced.
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Nom De Plume
Oh terribly sorry for that insignificant typo…
I don’t understand how interracial marriage is some evil plot designed to harm black people. If you can, please explain.
Interracial marriages usually produce off-springs. These off-springs usually cause internal strife (check out South Africa, Brazil, Haiti, etc).
No, it’s quite accurate if you think about it.
I was referring to this definition,
Community: A group of people having a religion, race, profession, or other particular characteristic in common.
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Nana is well-read, well-educated and well . . . eloquent. 🙂
I made the error of getting involved with egos.
Nana is seasoned. Hurrah, hurrah Nana!
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I was prepared to simply let this rickety thread teeter into the night before capsizing under the weight of its weirdisms. I looked through the thread again in bemusement, and Big Toe Onitaset once again dropped another load of cowpie. He wrote:
I specifically repeated that the White man was a bad partner FOR ANYONE and in responding to a comment on ‘marriage as prostitution’ I said that I felt sorry for such a union.
This is such a laughable statement, I don’t know where to begin. What is a bad partner, Generalissimo Onitaset? What is a good partner? If you want to go based on race, as you have been like a bull at a red cape, then you’re way off. Legions of white men support their families, care for their children, and have learned that successful relationships between man and woman depend largely on communication and mutual respect, and fidelity. To say a white man is a bad partner is an insult to men like my father, and many others like him, who stood by their wives and children, didn’t complain about being the breadwinner, and as Hannu Lipponen said, ‘Manned up.’ Are white men perfect? No. There have been some real a-holes. But, was Idi Amin white? Was Mugabe white? Was Kim Jong-Il white? Was Pol Pot white? Were the men who butchered innocents in Darfur white? White men are not the only men who display fidelity to their women, but based on the numbers of African-American children I encounter as a teacher, many of the fathers are absent (not always by choice, but that is a whole other topic, i.e. the high rate of incarceration of Black American males). Fair to say, though, that many men, including Black men, do have children with multiple women. Are they ideal fathers? Who is to judge? I have said it is dangerous to make general, bigoted statements, but maybe you can’t help it. Again, it seems you’ve been programmed, and it just sounds so canned. I would take the opposite view of your statement. A White man can be a GREAT partner for a woman, as can a Samoan man, or a Mexican man, or a Nigerian man, or any other man on the planet. Traditionally, White men have stood by their families, not the opposite. Go ahead and do the research on children born out of wedlock to absentee fathers. Tell me which ethnicity represents the greatest numbers. I am loath to take the thread there, to an analysis of people based on race, but you steer it there, maybe because you are too simple to do some critical thinking.
Can someone help Onitaset?
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truthonly,
Simply stated, the White man is PHILOSOPHICALLY sexist, patriarchal and misogynistic. African men sometimes share this philosophy; but this relates to our captivity, it’s not an independent African phenomenon.
As a White man, you can not escape those PHILOSOPHIES which make you and your ilk bad partners. That is what I am communicating.
I know that it sounds atypical and disagreeable, but that’s called “being original” not “simple.”
This site tells you how White men can be racist. Can’t you imagine that too they can be sexist? I dissect the Philosophical causes thereupon. It’s not an easy feat, but requires a learned perspective.
You, in your above post, demonstrate sexist ideas: “Breadwinner” (as opposed to homemaker) and “Man Up” (Be bold–unlike a woman!)
A part of being logical is to ‘laugh’ at ‘arguments,’ not ‘conclusions.’ You disagree with the conclusion, so you laugh.
But European women have long clamored against “Patriarchy.” This “Patriarchy” makes the European man unfit for women–it’s a systemic hatred of women.
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@Nana, go ahead and tell all the people on the planet who are children of black-white couples that they’re no good. I doubt you would have the actual courage to do such a thing. It’s one thing to blog it, but another thing to say it to their face. I don’t think you fully comprehend what you write, but people can change. Sometimes, though, it takes time, or life events, to help them to see in a different light. Your arguments will lead you nowhere, but if what you write now helps you, so be it.You’re right, though, hate does breed hate, unless people have the courage to overcome it.
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Life is the pursuit of happiness, seek it where you can find it. Seek to make yourself happy first, so that you may make others around you happy. Resist hate, find good where and in who you can. Don’t live with regrets.
I found this thread interesting at one time, but it now has the sound and feel of a hate blog. I wouldn’t want to read such opinions of any people, period. Therefore, I’m unsubscribing from this link, and you all will be free to continue insulting one another.
Happy New Year, and @Bulanik and Demerera, to Blacknost!
Farewell, and peace.
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@Nana:
Interracial marriages usually produce off-springs. These off-springs usually cause internal strife (check out South Africa, Brazil, Haiti, etc).
—–
Bi-racial people from black/white unions usually cause internal strife? Wow. Just about all the bi-racial people I know seem very well-adjusted and have loving, well-adjusted parents. All I can say is…if you oppose interracial marriage, then don’t marry interracially.
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@ truthonly
Traditionally, White American men willingly sold their children as slaves. American law, society and culture have been twisted and warped to make that possible and seem reasonable. Black Americans are about 15% white, proof that this was not at all a rare thing, the action of a few sickoes.
At present about a half of white men divorce and, for the most part, become absentee fathers.
So White American men have a terrible record as fathers.
You’ve been living in a dream world.
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But, was Idi Amin white? Was Mugabe white? Was Kim Jong-Il white? Was Pol Pot white? Were the men who butchered innocents in Darfur white?
Ah, so now we get to the gist of this persons thoughts! This is mighty rich coming from a German, it seems you have forgotten the worst murderer of all time, Hitler. If those were the worst names of racialized lunatics you could come up, the list of white mass murderers is a hundred times more. Why are you bringing them up? This isn’t about dictators and maniacs yet you veer off into that realm to prove a non-point. A typical white diversionary tactic; “We are not the only ones!” and then go on to throw such counter-arguments around. Too bad the posts has nothing to do with maniacs, racialized or white.
I have said it is dangerous to make general, bigoted statements, but maybe you can’t help it.
You’re whole posts are general bigoted statements under the guise of that old Kumbaya BS. You don’t have a clue.
I am loath to take the thread there, to an analysis of people based on race, but you steer it there, maybe because you are too simple to do some critical thinking.
You’re right to loathe doing that, If you can’t stand the heat stay out of the kitchen. Maybe you are the simpleton as aspects of this thread seem to go over yours’ and others’ heads!
I found this thread interesting at one time, but it now has the sound and feel of a hate blog.
Go to stormfront and chimp.com for examples of real hate blogs! I notice a trend on this blog. Anytime there is a post or responses to a post that doesn’t take the kumbaya viewpoints, in other words hurts some ‘white’ person’s sensitivities or feelings, it is accused of being a hate blog.
Therefore, I’m unsubscribing from this link, and you all will be free to continue insulting one another.
That’s the first sensible thing you have written so far, todaloo!
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Hotep my African siblings,
Brother Abagond, that was an interesting comment. It made me wonder how the stereotype of single “White” mothers escapes even the “Black” audience. The majority of people on welfare are single White mothers and the majority of children on medicaid are their children. How do we allow Whites to portray themselves as paragons when clearly, as I said, they don’t even treat themselves right?
Finally, I give to those posters whom I like, Robert, Nana, Herneith, Abagond, and so forth, this little bit I put on my website:
It’s a video historical analysis of interracial relationships, with a brief synopsis.
Hotep!
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I’m a black woman but i would rather marry a white man. I’m defiantly not a racist, especially not to my own race but white men just appeal to me more physically.
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My name is Shawn, not Shaw
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I just wonder what Onitaset thinks of this :
(FYI: Hilda and Hugo were already in a Civil Union, long before they got engaged.)
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I don’t think Onitaset gives a hoot!
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Speaking as a white man I find this discussion rather depressing. Why all the bitterness and hatred? Obviously nobody, man or woman, will want to go out with a person who is prejudiced against their race but then a racist would hardly be likely to ask out a person of a different race.
Some women have complained about white standards of beauty but that is not surprising in predominantly white countries. I imagine that the average man in Africa thinks about a black woman when he is asked to picture a beautiful woman and similarly a Chinese man would probably think of some real or imaginary Chinese woman.
It all depends on what you are used to. However that does not mean that a man cannot recognise beauty in other races. My own ideal used to be of a tall, slim but reasonably curvy blonde. However opposites attract and nowadays I find that I am more and more attracted to black women. Sometimes white men who are strongly attracted to black women are accused of finding them exotic – but if you live in an area with relatively few black women then they will inevitably have a sort of rarity value!
Having said that I would never actually choose a woman on the basis of her race. I would choose someone whom I was attracted to on all levels. Physical attraction would have to exist but it would not be the most important thing although it would be more important than skin colour.
Similarly I would not want a black woman to choose me because I was white. It would be foolish for black women to deliberately set out to find white boyfriends or husbands but it would be sensible for them to make an effort to make male friends of all races, if the opportunity arises, instead of deliberately limiting themselves to their own race. Then, if one of those friendships develops into something deeper that would be fine whether the man is black, white, Asian, Hispanic, whatever.
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Herneith speaks truth.
I recognize the powers in play that have shaped the expressed mindsets and I understand the narratives that are toward the liberation of African people. That’s all that needs to be said.
One needs to stop and think, how European people change their narrative from ‘racial purity’ to ‘blind miscegenation’ and what sort of ploy goes behind this. If popular opinion never ruled, say, America, why are so many fooling themselves about a general maturation?
Abagond would point out how much African people by and large improved in the states–meaning how little they have. So anyone should sit down and find it clear.
The only thing that I need to write to White people is how often your leadership has fooled you into global genocides. At some moment, at least one of you, needs to concede that you are not the heaviest thinkers. And maybe what you think, you think isn’t as ‘noble’ as you think it is.
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Onitaset, are you talking about that Kenyan video???
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I speak of the mindset of racial amalgamation. The film is spoken to indirectly.
Teddy, broaden your vision.
Truly, we are all people in a scenario. I look at the scenario more than I do the people, for the scenario is important.
Imagine that a woman prostitutes herself in the most degrading fashion because a war is ravaging her country; on one hand, you can say “Look how these men care for her children” but on the other hand you can say “Look how war makes women desperate.” Do you understand? The first comment is myopic, the second, macroscopic.
You show an example of a man and woman in a civil union, but you ignore everything besides that. Do not drag me down to your level. Come up to my own.
Does that couple do anything in the way of African liberation, anti-imperialism, or Pan-Africanism? That’s my question to you.
The woman, beside from being an athlete, is a natural born scholar, but for what does the world appreciate her? What does all of her intelligence get expressed into? This is a subtle destruction of her community–where the genii serve solely as ENTERTAINMENT for Europeans. Yet somehow, this seems ‘decent’ to you. But I have a newsflash–Africans, even as SLAVES, were put into the place of ENTERTAINING Europeans. Nothing much has changed; the social condition still prefers EUROPEANS to the point where a beautiful genius African woman overlooks the beautiful genius African men for a mediocre EUROPEAN athlete.
It’s not that I do not care–it’s that I recognize that this already happened–it’s not news and it’s no contradictory to what I understand.
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Well, they do a bit concerning the emancipation of women in Africa, help girls get places at US-universities, good enough for me.
Well, I don’t know about the World, but the Netherlands considers her the second best female Dutch runner of all times. You don’t like intelligent black people dominating sports?
But since you ask, her intelligence gets expressed in having a house she designed, in being fluent in 4 languages, in becoming a fully qualified physiotherapist BEFORE starting a carreer in athletics, in getting the man she falls in love with (who happened to be her computer instructor FYI) and in being one of the best long distance runners, which is a sport which needs intelligence to win.
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A lot of us are fluent in four languages; that’s a sign of being conquered not of being ‘intelligent.’ I would not dare call the common English person ‘unintelligent’ solely on the merit of owning one language compared against the common Nigerian. Let’s not go into childish arguments.
As to the emancipation of women, that’s not happening; look what you wrote: “help girls get places at US-universities.” Firstly, it goes against the African philosophy of not viewing man and woman as separate; secondly, it plays into White supremacy and the “brain-drain” of Africa. More or less, it only increases the chances of Black women leaving Africa to be claimed by White men. That’s not an “emancipation.”
I think that all Black people are intelligent. However, I do not see “sports” as an avenue toward Black liberation. Remember, “sports” are merely entertainment for Whites who can afford to watch sports. How does entertaining a group of people liberate an oppressed people?
Finally you speak of physiotherapy, her love for some White man, and her building her house. Let’s put them together. Physiotherapy just enhances sports, something useless in terms of nation building–What Africa needs. Second, she “loves” a White man–again, useless in terms of nation building. Finally, she built a house that as much belongs to a White man as it does her–again, useless in terms of nation building.
What is your end goal for Black people? That they welcome White people amongst them? How does that improve Black people? You know of the Congolese wars being fueled by White business surrounding Coltan–how does this ‘marriage’ fight that?
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So this is still going on, eh?
White men date, have sex with, and marry white women because we can and because we want to. In terms of access to white women (the ones we like most), being white is like being a black NBA all-star even though we might not have any particular skill at basketball. So, given that we can do this, why should we bother with black women whose every effort at looking white only reminds us of who they are not? Hopefully black men feel the same way about black women.
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I am a physically fit, educated, successful black woman and I’m not bitter, angry or a gold digger. I’m not aggressive, angry and I have never in my life looked for handout from any man of any race or any woman for that matter. I’ve dated men of all races and I married a black man. If I wanted to marry any of my white ex boyfriends none of the things listed in this blog or thread of comments would have been an issue. Many of you are making comments that create blanket statements that make black women look like we are all the same. Some white women, Hispanic and Asian women are gold diggers. Truth is that many black women are working full time jobs, graduating from college and looking in the faces of educated white executives as a business advisor not a whore looking for handouts. You guys can make an issue out of black women all you want to with your assumptions, but the truth is that such a debate is not worth the time of the angry people that are making these comments. Just like their are good and bad White, Asian and Hispanic women there are the same for Black women please don’t try to say all black women are seeking the dimes out of your pockets!
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@StandardNYCWhiteMan
I am not sure where you get the idea that BW want to look White?!! Most, if not all BW look Black and are not in the hurry to look anything like a WW. Maybe, you are talking about the ones you see in the white media like Rihanna!!
I would say it WW who are trying their best to look black, with all the lip injections , bum implants and tanning their skin to look darker than black people and then boasting about it to us!
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This topic is crazy. What about marrying for love? I am a black educated woman who married a white educated man with the sole purpose of marrying the love of my life. We met in 2003, and we’ve been married for five years with two adorable kids. Once we stop giving a shit about other people’s opinions it was amazing how better our quality of life became. Our main focus was making sure we both connected on a spiritual, mental, emotional, and physical level…not focusing on race. We realized that we both had different backgrounds and we both equally had the right to voice our opinion on race and society. In regards to the haters of the world…Anyone who couldn’t accept us had to get the hell out of our faces…our ultimate goal is maintaining our family while enjoying our life before it’s over.
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The poverty of the “African-American” analysis begins with the “African-American’s” viewpoint that they are more “American” than “African” and that an African or European can be an “American.”
For, let us analyze the ‘traditional’ “American” family structure: two parents and two-and-a-half children–the so-called nuclear family. Is it traditionally “American,” traditionally “African” or traditionally “European?” As in–who decides that this structure is ‘traditional?’
The astute know it to be “European.” Moreso, the astute further know that the traditional African and traditional European family structure are different.
So we come to the topic of African and European interracial unions and lo and behold, the self-described “Zulu princess” reveals a family structure that insults the Zulu nation and her self-described African heritage (for no one of a strong Zulu background disregards community for a White man–let alone raises their children in the traditional European family structure).
She finds her life to be of better quality when she doesn’t care about the opinions of others. Now which African ancestor can say that they care little for the opinion of others? Though, it is evident, that the people whom held this woman’s ancestor in chains, also disregarded her ancestor’s opinions and now educated her and sleep with her.
And she’s happy with that.
Now that’s her prerogative. But it should inform those interested in the subject. Self-described Black women are praising their White suitors though the power of the relationship, contained in the structure of the relationship, isn’t challenged. Instead, these women go against customs, go against opinions, go against community, to give to this White man everything (friend’s, family, race, descendants)–and then believe that this makes them happy. Reread: Sacrifice makes them happy!
Harriet Tubman had said that she would have freed a lot more of our ancestors if they had known that they were enslaved. Observe, African Blood Siblings, who does not know what slavery looks like!
HTP
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Onitaset, I have been following your contributions. I do sympathise with your arguments. I think they have a lot of validity (mind you I am happily married to a white English gentleman).
Unfortunately, whilst I appreciate the thrust of your arguments, you ought to come to the understanding that on an individual level your observations/arguments do not always hold. Moreover, following your arguments to their logical conclusion, you are looking at something that is nice theoretically but practically impossible (or unappealing).
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Since black women are not attractive, this is so normal.
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Maureen, I am not equally familiar with your writing, so I will address what I see here alone.
It is not I who should come to a misunderstanding that on an individual level, generalizations do not hold, but rather that all of us should come to the realization that African individuals are being genocided–and interracial relationships are a form of genocide.
To put it very clearly. The fundamental rule of culture is to repopulate the people in question. Interracial relationships do not recreate Africans. As such, interracial relationships are a form of genocide. How does that not apply to an individual case?
I would sooner tell someone to turn against their significant other than tell them to turn against their parent (though who would say the latter?). So logically, the children of mixed parentage, of whom most of our ancestors in America are, are necessarily sympathetic to two conflicting groups.
Then the matter becomes what is one’s ambition. You describe yourself as a Black woman who is happy. But what are you happy for? No where in America do you have an independent, prosperous Black community and no where in the world do you have an independent, prosperous Black Nation, and this is all due to White folk. See what Napoleon said was his reason for attacking Haiti.
All said–what are you happy for? Isn’t your happiness defined by Europeans, not Africans? So are you really happy?
That’s for you to answer. I only sought to show how individually, what I wrote most holds true.
Because, frankly, exceptions do not make rules. If you are living in an African communal setting with some crazy European, traditionally practicing, then you have another problem on your hands.
Either way–your mixed union is necessarily in the way of independent, prosperous African communities/nations. Key word ‘independent.’
A sister wrote me:
What do you think that your ‘happiness’ does?
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By the way–I do not get bent out of shape for safa’s dismissal of Black beauty. It’s ridiculous. No one in their right mind would claim Africans lacking in beauty.
Blumenbach himself–the man who devised the 5 race system–who some claim originated the “Ugly Black” philosophy–reversed his statement after finally seeing a real African woman.
More–I do not care what White folk think of us. We need to build and one can not build with the destroyers.
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Onitaset, I am happy as an individual because of what my expectations are and what make me as an individual happy. Clearly, the factors that affect your happiness is different from the factors that determine whether or not I am happy. That I must respect. Likewise, you should endeavour to respect the personal preferences of others. I am happy because I feel fulfilled in the things that matter to me. I am very much interested in my black culture. However, I am not interested in fighting a cause that has no practical purpose. The things that make me happy seem to be the same sort of things that make my African friends (straight out of Ghana, Nigeria, Zimbabwe, etc) happy. They do not appear to have a different definition of happiness neither are the factors that affect their happiness any different to mine. Onitaset, do you spend a lot of time with Africans? I suspect you don’t because you have a rather romantic fantasy about them.
Like I said, your arguments lead to an impractical conclusion. What would you have black people do? Go back to Africa? Divorce themselves from “white society”. What is the outcome you so desire from your rantings? Is it practically possible? If not, then my friend we are simply in the realm of a nice academic (and theoretical) debate.
Your passion for our people is no more noble than mine. We are where we are. We cannot undo history. All we can do is turn the presentand future to our advantage. The war on blacks is a mind game. You may need to emancipate yourself from mental slavery. You may think that applies to people like me but it sounds like you and your friend (whom you quoted) are mentally enslaved thinking you are in a battle that simply does not exist in the manner in which you perceive it. Sure, we have to continue fighting on but you are caught in a battle that is not the real deal.
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Maureen,
Everyone that I know is African.
Now, if you are speaking with me, then you are on the pathway of learning. But if you are speaking at me, then you are on the pathway of losing.
If you do not understand something, ask me to elaborate. Don’t tell me anything. For frankly, I gave you every opportunity to elaborate and you have not.
Look–Napoleon wrote:
That’s a national hero of France. Look at what happened when the French IMF boss came to America. He raped a woman and got off. Why? She is African.
A more full quotation of my friend’s is:
How is this to you not reality?
Now listen–you claim an interest in Black culture. What does that mean? You later say you have no inclination to fight for it. So then what kind of interest do you have? Black culture is “practical” (to practice.) So why can’t you see a ‘practical purpose?’ You understand here? You’re dealing with filler statements. Why tell me that you’re “interested in Black culture?” Did I ask?
Then you go on about your friends and their definitions. But what’s that to do with the price of bread? I wish that I could point to the Philosopher who comments on the essence of happiness. But it’s not a straightforward definition. So it doesn’t matter how your friends define it. The fact is that you are cut from your ancestry and your descendants. That’s what’s being discussed here.
Now, why do you use the word ‘ranting.’ Why is my contribution a ‘rant?’ What is your contribution? You come in flaunting a White man to a Black audience–for what? You know how many Black women have had White men? It’s not spectacular. Ultimately, in a world dominated by White men, you chose a White man to be with. You saw him as a good match to your ‘education’ and ‘social status’ and the rest is in the books. So how is it that you are not ranting? You think that your view that “White is right” is necessary to a Black audience? You think that, that view is conducive to addressing the ills of Black people? You mentioned that you WON’T fight for our people. But then you merely dismiss those who do. For what? You understand how your ‘loyalties’ are up.
You write that my passions may not be more noble than your own–yet you’re unwilling to fight for you people–seeing no practicality in challenging White folk–dismissing my reasonable views–and promoting the White man!
What’s noble about not fighting? What’s noble about defeatism What’s noble about dismissing reason? What’s noble about promoting the White man.
Come now . . ..
You talk about putting the future to your advantage–our only possibility–but how can YOU do that if your children are half-White? What advantage do BLACKS get from owing allegiance to Whites? Certainly–some mixed children can disavow allegiance–but why ask them too–and look what you are writing–you, the MOTHER, don’t. Look what you call “Noble.”
Now here your talk on me being in mind slavery? Nafissatou Diallo was raped in NYC, and the White power structure illegally dismissed her case. Re-read Napoleon to find out why.
You need to recheck what you’re writing to me. You’re trying to be ‘formal’ but you’re also being rude and very misinformed. How do you speak of nobility when you toss up your hands hugging the oppressor?
Finally, what is the practical goal? At least one prosperous, independent African community. You know that there are China Towns in many cities, Little Italy’s and German Villages–but for some reason a prosperous, independent African community evades us.
If you think that, THAT is impractical, you have a half-truth on your hand. It is difficult because of the White man in your bed.
HTP
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Why do so few White men marry or date Black women? SO WHAT. Why is this question even raised? Concern for Black women? History screams a loud NO. Black women have been and still are the victims of horrible racist practices, notwithstanding many inter-racial matings and unions. This occurs in all Oppressor/Oppressed systems. It doesn’t diminish the general nature of Black/White social relations at all. It is just a nuisance distraction from the larger issue of worldwide Black genocide. (see The Sudan and Congo)
White men in general are the gatekeepers of White Supremacy, Patriarchy and MISOGYNY. This fact should answer your question?
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Most African-American woman are loud because for hundreds of years our opinion didn’t count. For hundreds of years we were house maids, nannies for White children. I am over 50 years old and will say that MOST men want a submissive wife not understanding that to make a union/relationship work the connection must be balance. What is strange to me is that though it takes two to create a child it takes one to birth it. I believe if a woman is good enough for you to sleep with she is good enough for you to respect
As for White men not marrying Black women it is not the ghetto-ism that the hate its the thought of what their family especially the males in their family they worry about. Many sneak to sleep with Black women because Black are desired this is why so many were raped back in the days of slavery.
Ghetto-ism has nothing to do with it. Believe reality shows have exposed just how loud and dirty even the rich White women are. Ghetto-ism is in all races. As for those on welfare the census shows that their are more Whites on welfare than any other race.
There is even a book written by Marlena Edwards that reveals that men desire all women regardless of their race. But most White men will not marry a Sista because of what his family will say!
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Forgot to tell where to find the book. Gossip the production line by Marlena Edwards amazon. Shows both sides of the fence.
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Black women, I implore you; Please stop directing your energies to; Why White men don’t marry Black women more? What is the importance of this topic? What is it’s relevance to the well being and survival of the race as a whole? Concentrate your attention on how to protect yourself and your children.
Ask yourself this. If the White man has not in any significant way, been dating and marrying Black women in 500 years; Why is this an issue now? And why is this “issue” only raised by White men, and never by Black women?
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As an African American male that has custody of his kids and has dated all kinds of nationality, it is a mistake honestly for any man to marry black women these days. Black women are delusional, angry,misguided, spiteful, vengeful and basically lost. I am going through a custody case with one now, the only one I ever truly dated and then married. I think black women come from a good place but the years of the same ole same from past generations has taken its toll. I have a son that I will be warning him very carefully about black women. I have a daughter that is black also and I am trying like hell to get her around other cultures and women other than black. If this is not you as a black women you have nothing to defend. I understand that we have plenty of black me that are horrible as well. I am not one of them so I do not consider myself in the conversation. Black women have gone from generations of raising children and being the center of the home, to now who knows what. Now Homosexuality is now so prevalent in the black community. I always wondered why successful black men leave the sisters, now i KNOW. Brothers broaden your horizons our children are suffering.
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CloserPhd,
I’m sorry about your personal experience with a black woman but all what you just stated applies to every race and I think that was so ignorant of you to applesauce all women of a race like that! I think you should start learning to individualize people(women) and not lumping them together just like that, it’s so ill-chosen and awkward!
After learning that, teach it to your daughter as well and she will thank you for that.Trust me!
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@CloserPhd
I agree with Bell – It sounds like you have had a bad experience and whilst you imply that it doesnt apply to ALL black women, nevertheless your intended actions suggest otherwise. Perhaps you have to take a bit of responsibility here for the way the behaviours in your previous partner manifested themselves, surely there were ‘sign’s even in the beginning that your partner was not all you hoped for?
It certainly is a positive step to encourage your children to be open minded in terms of race etc, and also, not to takeon the negative traits that you talk of here however, you have to be honest and as open yourself and realise that these negative traits are NOT specific to one race but manifest themselves in ALL races.
Anyway, I wish you luck in bringing up your children – its hard but what a blessing 🙂
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Clearly CloserPhD is a White person (or a White person dipped in chocolate):
Firstly, what Black person writes “African-American” but the most mis-educated?
Secondly, what Black person, who obviously has a Black mother, would diss Black women?
Thirdly, what Black person would write that his daughter is “Black also?” Sherlock Holmes wasn’t Black.
Fourthly, what Black person would call other Black men horrible?
Fifthly, what Black person is worried about what ‘successful’ Black people do?
Sixthly, what Black person writes “Brothers” but excludes “Sisters?”
You white folk need to get more up to speed with your impersonations.
For my part, no “good Black man” would disrespect any Black woman. Especially not in favor of White people. To wit, the story of Emmett Till is that, that White woman whom he allegedly whistled at was going to fetch her gun before the group of kids, Emmett included, ran away. As in–White women would readily kill Black people to. And we know that during the Mau Mau revolution, White women packed heat. Let’s get this straight.
Only our absolute dumbest would encourage White people on Black people.
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Well said Demerera & Onitaset!!!
It is so sad and pathetic to have people like CloserPhD among the human race. They only impede the betterment of humankind due to their personal experiences. Instead of learning from their mistakes and trying not to repeat them again and above all learn how to relate with others regardless of their race, they act like victims and put the blame on others, they find a convenient excuse for their shortcoming. How sad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Okay I am black woman so I going to be honest…
1. America puts high standard towards blacks period. There has been this white vs black since slavery thus no absolute peace between the two otherwise we can wouldn’t be having this conversation. Notice blacks must fight & earn everything that greater degree than other racial groups!
2. White boy may love her but must justify to date & marry her. Why go black when he could remain white. His parents might not approve of it.
3. Black community has lost their class and we’re better off pre-civil rights then today. Look at the men most are pitiful! Women went ghetto as they don’t take care of herself. Hispanics might turn away although situations is similar
4. Her experience with men are poor. 70% of black children are fatherless so that plays into a huge factor. She doesn’t have male wisdom to tell her about men & who she pick or not pick up. Because of fallen black men, she feels there aren’t much options & the media and majority ghetto blacks doesn’t help.
5. Black women has switch roles with men because of the fallen black men while she surpass him at school & work. Thus thus new masculine woman! Mostly because she has to & statistics will tell you that factor tor while it’s still male dominant in other racial groups. Looking for submissive black female is difficult. America never been black friendly plus she’s a woman so it’s 2 strikes against her that she’s combating since childhood.
6..
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What’s with all the black women ever are so ghetto and so mean and so this and that. What’s with that? Until you’ve met every black women or women of color /African decent then those claims are mean, false, and just stupid! With so many myths, stereotypes, and generalising around black women, won’t you have the decency to try not to do all thing’s stated. Sad really but there isn’t much I can do as a simple commentator on a blog site.
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I have a small question.
I am a white man and I am dating a “black woman” from Kenya.
I understand that in America, were we to have children my son or daughter would be considered black. Is this not racist??
As far as I can see my child would only by half black, half white. In calling my child black you are discounting one half of their family. Putting things in simple boxes does not seem to help anyone. Were Ms. Hally Berry to have children with her partner would they still be considered black?
Lastly, why does any of this matter. If someone asked me what race my child was, as a caring parent, all I could reply is “a good spirited, kind, hard working one”. If that same person were to probe deeper I would show them the door.
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@ John
That depends. If your child was relatively light complected, spoke proper english, were reasonable well-educated, dressed in the “mainstream”, and called themselves bi-racial, then most White people would call them that too.
*However, if they robbed a liquor store or didn’t make their child support payment, they would instantly become “Black!”*
Most Blacks would consider them to be Black until they learned that they wished to be called bi-racial. After which, they would simply be called “uppity,” which is every bit as unfortunate as my first assertion.
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LOL@King. Very funny but true response.
In the UK, they would generally be called mixed race. However, not all mixed race people look mixed race. Some mixed race people could easily pass for 100% black. So mixed race people are light enough to pass for Western European (Italian, Spanish, etc).
As you say, if they are good citizens, they are mixed race, If they do anything considered stupid, criminal, etc, then they are just ‘black’.
By the way John, Halle Berry openly stated that she considers her daughter Nahla as a woman of colour because she Halle Berry is a woman of colour. Halle who is mixed race, made it clear that even though one of her parents is white (her mum), her experience has been that of a black woman – racism, etc. Therefore, she regards herself as black. There was a lot of uproar but I applaud her for been open and honest (and very mature) about the situation.
Mixed race people (particularly those who cannot “pass” for white) face the same racism as 100% black.
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Why is it a given that there is only one way to be a decent, worthy-of-pursuit black woman? Disgusting. There was one black female poster here who denigrated every single black woman who was not educated like herself with her comments. Some women are working class and do not have privilege. But that doesn’t mean they are nice, good women who will stand behind their man. A lot of working class black women would not be interested in white men for various reasons. However, black women are an extremely powerful, deeply attractive group of people. As for aggression, I have been the object of a lot of aggression and have walked away feeling like an idiot, only to be told by whatever black, white asian, man woman who did the aggressing that I was derelict in taking up for myself. I am so SICK of the catch-22’s of being a black woman. If I speak up, I’m too loud and aggressive, if I back down, I am a second class citizen who deserves to be hit. When, for God’s sake, do I get to be human? My husband is white btw. There are times when I’m aggressive, and times when I’m vulnerable and times when I’m playful, sexual, clueless, manipulative and evolved. I am a whole lot of things, and so are most people. However, black women often get preyed upon in this society. Whether going to the store or getting a job. Can I tell you about my first white boss and his sexual harassment towards me when I was twenty one year old virgin? Or the white women who got angry because I got the job to begin with? We are not a “protected” group of people and thus must protect ourselves. In a predominantly white community, I know that taking care of myself, confronting friends and colleague with whatever bothers me comes with as much cost as not taking care of myself. Either way, my reticence or assertiveness will have an interpretation, based often subliminally on the color of my skin, texture of my hair and shape of my features. Despite all that, I know I’m a catch, beautiful, smart and accomplished, like most of the black women I know. Shoot most of the women I know. Here’s an incendiary comment. Too many women, black or white are single because men in general are held to lesser standards than women. I know many unhappy single pining white women who are demeaned by their men because as women they have less power in this society than their male counterparts. Thems the facts. And we are not trained as women, black white or Asian to spot the good men. Not the alpha males, the male models but the good men. I have been teaching my female friends of all races this for years. Find a good man, not the one who walks around like he’s the cock of the walk.
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I find this whole topic distasteful! I am a black woman and I do not like the implication that we need white men to like us. It is degrading. This whole topic begs of ‘approval.’ It also opens the door for racist, arrogant white men to think that we are pinning for them and I certainly am not.
If you are a black woman who has raised this topic I think you should be ashamed and think about the degradation you bring on the rest of us. To be quiet honest I think you African American women need a lesson in self respect. This is not meant as a put down, but I am ashamed of the way you behave on the chat shows i.e Maury Povich, Jeremy Kyle and so on. Please start thinking about your behaviour because it reflects on this rest of us.
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oh please everybody calm down!!! Before I start I’ll give you all some brief info about me and my fiance, im white, grew up in a middle class neighborhood. She’s black, grew up in the worst neighborhood in alabama, the alabama village.
1. Using the word “ghetto” to describe somebody is NOT racist, it’s usually true, but as you know the truth hurts (so people jump to the race card)
– My fiance grew up in the alabama village her whole life, she says she was so glad when she moved out because she couldnt stand ghetto peoples ignorance. If we so much as hear loud bass down the street she loses it, she just cant stand it. She is very intelligent, even a virgin when i met her. She told me she could never date another black man after all the ones she saw growing up, she (being black) said herself that they were all scum (considering where she grew up i guess scum was all she ever met in the first place) I love her because unlike the white women i’ve dated in my life, she cares. She acts like she’s grown not like shes still in high school, she dresses “classy” when we go out (not all those tight pants and whore outfits every girl seems to wear out these days) she talks “properly”, she doesnt cheat, and she is by no means materialistic, she doesnt even wear make up and i love that. (i cant stand most white women, they’re spoiled and think that they deserve the world without giving back. Then white women are too much talk and drama for me.) 10 years ago if you would ask me if id date a black chick i wouldve said no! but then i met her and i am happy and see us living a great life for the rest of our days.
2. A mulatto cant be an insult or derogatory because almost every mixed person i’ve met actually calls themself a “mulatto”
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“To be quiet honest I think you African American women need a lesson in self respect. This is not meant as a put down, but I am ashamed of the way you behave on the chat shows i.e Maury Povich, Jeremy Kyle and so on. Please start thinking about your behaviour because it reflects on this rest of us..”
– – –
Nah…how could anyone take constructive criticism / thoughtful advice such as the above as a putdown?
I personally cancelled my 11th appearance on the Maury Povich show and my 17th appearance on the show of Jeremy Kyle – whoever he is – after I read your heartwarming advice to us Black American women…all 20+ million of us.
So you no longer have to feel ashamed … at least, not on my account …in front of your kindly whitefolk over there where you live, as I know how much their thoughts concern you….
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Gosh, Harold, you are a first rate example of the fact that a white man can be dating a black woman and be a racist
Im not like you at all
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Why thank you, Peanut! 🙂
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I think this question of why so few white men marry black women should be based more so on the usa because in Europe ist is more common for white men to marry black women. Also abagond a more positive note about black women white men marriages is that marriage statistics have shown that marriages between black women & white men last longer (less likely to divorce) than black men white women marriages, white women, asian men marriages & black marriages etc. maybe that would make an interesting topic.
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Its that they see what they black women do to their men. Would you marry someone that would potentially belittle you? hit you? steal and mangle your belongings? Im a black man and let me set it straight. The reason black men leave black women is that they are mean and vindictive. The whole “strong black woman” thing is very unattractive. They arent strong they are weak trying to overcompensate. Black men are perceived as the media says but arent that at all. White women (and every other) see black men put up and try to make these doomed relationships work. They see us as men. Not punvhing bags paychecks, deadbeats, fuckups etc (hell of a lot more). Also They want to be princesses. The only princess in a mans life are his daughters. Also black women want what they think and when they get it throw it away cause they can get another that is bigger badder and better. And lets not forget those friends that incite stupidity. So thats why. THEY WERENT RAISED RIGHT AND DONT WANT TO CHANGE FOR THE GREATER GOOD. So why should anyone accept that?
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You go into describing a specific kind of personality- someone who hits, steals and belittles and try to peg that as somehow being a black woman thing. Black men are not stereotypes but black women are, right? Cut the shit already and stop dumping your emotional baggage on a whole group of people, your issues are your own.
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Yeah, you preach it brother!!!
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“Its that they see what they black women do to their men. Would you marry someone that would potentially belittle you? hit you? steal and mangle your belongings?”
I’ve seen women of all races belittle, hit, steal, and mangle their male, significant other’s belongings. I don’t understand why people are so hard-pressed to associate every single negative trait with black women.
“Im a black man and let me set it straight. The reason black men leave black women is that they are mean and vindictive. The whole “strong black woman” thing is very unattractive. They arent strong they are weak trying to overcompensate.”
Are you telling me that I’m mean and vindictive? By design? By birth? That I and other black women are genetically predisposed to be this way? Or are you using the behavior of a FEW black women and assuming that we, as women, act as ONE, indistinguishable entity?
If I had the audacity to sit here and say ALL black men are all lazy, unintelligent, drug selling, absentee fathers, I’m sure a lot of black men would be up in arms. So why is it that you and other black men have little to no qualms throwing black women under the bus, especially when we have this reckless sense of loyalty to your plight?
Boy, what a TRADE OFF.
“Black men are perceived as the media says but arent that at all. White women (and every other) see black men put up and try to make these doomed relationships work. They see us as men. Not punvhing bags paychecks, deadbeats, fuckups etc (hell of a lot more).”
As I stated earlier, black women have an INSANE amount of dedication to black men.
I understand that black men are overwhelming thrown into jail for senseless reasons, but are you trying to say that we OWE our loyalty to you no matter what? Even if that means giving up our own lives? Even if that means spending our living years dedicating ourselves to people who may see us more as an object and less as a human being?
You just want a woman you can control. A woman that submits to you. A woman that puts your life first instead of her own. A woman who is docile. A woman who stays with you even if you do some insanely fucked up things. You want a PET.
Lol, I see where this is going.
“HEY WERENT RAISED RIGHT AND DONT WANT TO CHANGE FOR THE GREATER GOOD. So why should anyone accept that?”
And, you sir, weren’t raised right. You were raised to despise the women of your own kind. You were raised in a world that dehumanizes black women, or, honestly, any woman who has brown/dark skin or is a WOC, and you fell for it. Hook, line, and sinker.
And you have the audacity to blame your own mental and social failings on us? I would look to myself instead of trying to LOOK to other people.
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@Brittany
I wouldn’t waste my time responding simply because i am convinced that most of the anti black woman rhetoric online is indeed coming from whites creating fake accounts pretending to be black people to racially terrorize the online black community.
Offline i see plenty of black men with their black wives/girlfriends and their children and they seem FINE.
Really, there is no rancor between black men and black women.
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Great points, Britiny, Pheobe and Peanut…(I miss some of the statements over here because it takes my computor a long time to buffer up the thread….could it be time for “Why so few white men marry black women part 3?)
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@Peanut,
Only .7% of ALL married white women have black husbands…
What i don’t ever read on blogs by *coughs* white men pretending to be black men (BMV) *coughs* is why white women are more likely to marry Asian men than black men…but then again that question also leaves itself open to the question as to why so few black men marry white women?
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ok I wanted so much to find a beautiful, faithful, and smart black woman to marrie me a faithful, smart whiteman but none did I searched forever it seemed but I was met with raciest and rude rmarks about me, so I was forced to marrie a crazy white woman.
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I was married to a light skinned black man, who left me for an Asian woman. That’s not a big issue for me anymore… but the remarks that I got later on were… Black men trying to comfort me during my pain, that I should have known that it was just a matter of time that something like that would happen… I’m a black woman, no way a white or light skinned woman would stay single over a black woman? And the black men I’ve dated since, always were honest enough to tell me, that they would have me as their by-side… but not as their main woman… even if they were single. 5 years down the road… I’m starting to believe that I’m doomed to remain single… That my social marital status is that of the lowest rank. I’ve often heard people tell me, that I’m gorgeous… (… sometimes even with the sub phrase: for a black woman) and intelligent (i have a Bachelor’s degree in Science and am currently also the creator, producer and host of an educational TV-show). And some black men have told me, I’m too smart and independent to be married. So recently I’ve created my own class of women… Not above, not under, just along side of all the others. Just a hard working woman who can take care of herself. Your article just emphasizes what I’ve already discovered… While dating white men… they can’t see me as a woman…. they see me as a black woman. Black men see me as a Smart Ass. Most men are just intimidated by me. Including my ex husband… blaming me for letting him feel inferior… So be (sh)it…
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I think culture and genetics are the reason not racism. I think you are making too fast an assumption. I’ve notice alot of asian people date spanish people. And in 99 percent of the time the asian person though the spanish person was also asian during first meet. Some spanish people look asian…I think it cause of native american blood in us. From personal experience I once date a black girl and after we where done during a random friendly conversation she told me I should stay with spanish chicks never asked why. I’m guessing she though it would be a good fit. So my point is culture plays a part but that isn’t necessarily racism. People like similair peopple and culture/physical appearance is a big similarity.
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From laromana:
And you have the audacity to blame your own mental and social failings on us? I would look to myself instead of trying to LOOK to other people.
laromana says,
Brittany,
Thanks for setting the record straight for HATER ANTI-BW BM who want to justify their demeaning, degrading, disrespectful attitudes/actions towards BW.
No matter what these HATER BM say, they exist because a BW CHOSE TO BIRTH THEM and THEY OWE BW THEIR LIVES/ALL DUE RESPECT.
laromana says,
Brian,
Just because you encountered racist/rude remarks from SOME BW, it doesn’t mean that ALL BW behave that way or that NO beautiful, smart, faithful BW exist who are open to marrying WM.
There are MILLIONS of women on the planet who are classified as BW and we areALL UNIQUE INDIVIDUALS.
Mi68 says,
I’m starting to believe that I’m doomed to remain single… That my social marital status is that of the lowest rank. I’ve often heard people tell me, that I’m gorgeous… (… sometimes even with the sub phrase: for a black woman) and intelligent (i have a Bachelor’s degree in Science and am currently also the creator, producer and host of an educational TV-show). And some black men have told me, I’m too smart and independent to be married. So recently I’ve created my own class of women… Not above, not under, just along side of all the others. Just a hard working woman who can take care of herself. Your article just emphasizes what I’ve already discovered… While dating white men… they can’t see me as a woman…. they see me as a black woman. Black men see me as a Smart Ass. Most men are just intimidated by me. Including my ex husband… blaming me for letting him feel inferior… So be (sh)it…
laromana says,
Mi68,
There is nothing wrong with you and the many intelligent, beautiful, kind, caring, good BW in America who are constantly having our humanity, dignity, and femininity attacked by a culture/media that promotes ANTI-BW HATE.
It’s not BW’s fault that ALL American men are BRAINWASHED to HATE BW and that MOST American men CHOOSE to go along with BRAINWASHED/ANTI-BWthinking.
If ALL BM decided to PUBLICLY DEFEND the humanity, dignity, and femininity of BW, we wouldn’t be the MOST disrespected women on the planet.
This is why BW should ONLY have relationships with/give their loyalty/respect toPRO-BW men of ANY race who treat them with dignity/respect
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Abagond
I am glad you stand up for Black women on this blog because I always feel like everyone hates Black women and I am almost 18 and most of the Black guys in my generation date out and say that they dislike Black women or overlook them.
Sad to say, with my chocolate brown skin, slim physique(I have a booty though) and kinky hair; I am not a Black man’s type. They say that I am too skinny and most of them prefer the Beyonces., Kim Kardashians and Mariah Carey’s of the world to darker Sistas like me.
I know there are many Black men who love Black women but they are mostly in the older generations.
No, I am not a bad person nor do I treat Black men badly. I try to treat everyone with respect.
”This is why BW should ONLY have relationships with/give their loyalty/respect toPRO-BW men of ANY race who treat them with dignity/respect”’
Agreed.
.
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Okay, I am sick of this post already and will discontinue it from coming into my email. First of all, I have lived in places where I have noticed a preponderance of black female/white male couples. Secondly, for every so called loud ghetto black woman out there, I can point you to simply evil, passive aggressive, weak, backstabbing, skanky and uneducated white women. Black women are strong, and forced through the racism in our culture to take care of ourselves, our men and our children in ways that many white women don’t. That being said, I have known many loud, in your face, aggressive, white women who are not male magnets in any sense. And some who are. Some find feminine strength, regardless of race, sexy and powerful. And this is not, by any means, my attempt to dismiss white women either. The idea that we are pitted against each other because of race or class is the very point of this mysognist and absurd question. All women keep getting told that something other than our true essence is “what men want.” The fact is, the most potent acoutrement anyone can posess is confidence and appropriate self regard. Adverising, the media and posts like this, keep putting sexual and romantic attractivness as something unattainable and “out there.” It’s the big, psychic, super pimp, that makes a woman’s self love conditional and reliant on some master male puppeteering pulling the strings of our self esteem. The minute, in my youth, I realized that nothing anyone said about me made me beautiful is when I had my choice of lovers and husbands.
And I am not attempting to hurt or villify white women either, as this entire post seems to do. The whole question is actually absurd. White racism and mysoginy is the cause of colonialism, slavery, Jim Crow, Reaganomics and what have you This racist, mysoginist culture asserts that the attractive women is submissive, so white men were able, historically to get away with subjugating white women and their counterparts of color. This is a culture that, through various historical and present day forces, has called upon black women to be assertive and self protective as well as protective of their offspring. Educate yourself. Take some feminist studies courses, learn about the terms cultural hegemony, study up on the “Victorian ideal” of womanhood and how it wreaked havoc on the rights and freedoms of women all over the planet, especially but not limited to impoverished European women and women of color. This post is for uneducated simpletons who must grope with articulating the most base and simplistic aspects of our tv obsessed and advertising drenched culutre.
I do not give two craps about white male racists and their rejection of black women. First of all, because it’s b.s.
I am married to a white man, and daily have to deal with the overtures of men of all races. Do you know why? Because my blackness makes me beautiful,brilliant and powerful. Screw this post, the person who started this topic and everyone “weighing in” on the desirability of black women.
I used to be intrigued by Abagond. But, white or black, Abagond is a moron. The very question of why “white men won’t marry black women” is completely disempowering and perpetuates the “psychic rape” initiated by slavery and colonialism. There are a million factors involved in various statistics, not the least of which is the agency and selectiveness of black women themselves. I know so many, so many black women who have the opportunity to date white and REFUSE.
I am married to a white man. Because, being beautiful, powerful, strong, tough, outspoken, determined, sexy and independent, I have a CHOICE in mates. As do many many black women, “ghetto” or not. The question should at be framed as “why do black women reject white men?” I have tried to convince many black female friends to date outside of their race. Many are not that interested. They don’t like the skin color, the stiffness in the personality, the inability to dance, and the lack of charisma that they find in many white men. A lot of white men, if they are not culturally sensitive , can come off as “stupid” and “ignorant” in the eyes of black women. Many women could give two craps about societally conferred notions of status. That is, many black women don’t care how much white men rule the world through a history of cultural theft, oppression and war mongering. So, many black women don’t care how much white men, through movies and advertising, tell everyone about how perfect they are. Many black women think for themselves and still prefer members of their own race. And like I said, black women are turned off by things such as a lack of charisma or sexiness or humor or generosity.
I have urged friends to look beyond such things to a person’s soul. A lot of them don’t like that either.
Shame on Abagond or whatever his name is, for bringing up this ridiculous question. It still perpetuates the ancient, antiquated idea that women in general are sitting around waiting to be “picked” by some man. And that black women, in particular, are waiting for some white men to pick them. Most of us are waiting for black men to wake up and claim and own their power.
Please, Abagond, if you are black, stop dragging black women down into this mire of being mere objects who are waiting for any man to marry them. I, and the women, white or black or Asian or Latina that I know, are so much more powerful that. This oversimplifying, stupid question is just an excuse for scared little wimps to take shots at black women, who have passed down generations of power, intellect and transcendence, especially so called “ghetto women.”
And have you not heard the saying “a man chases a woman until she catches him”? Yes, even in the remnants of the most antiquated courtship rituals, the woman is the one who chooses. There are so many, so many black women who do the impossible everyday- they deal with black men who have been intergenerationally devastated by racism, they raise children alone and support entire families. They educate themselves, take risks, maintain their beauty, love themselves and embrace their femininity. How dare you, Abagond, leave black women open to this reinforcement of the much needed idea by the dominant culture, that our strength is a “turn off.”
As for my marriage, it took me a long time to want to commit to my husband because of my aesthetic, philosophical, and energetic connection and loyalty to my beautiful, powerful race. However, I found that my husband was a fellow warrior, a person committed to justice and righteousness, and a man who never let me forget that I was beautiful, special and very, very worth it, “ghetto, loud” outbursts and all. I have decided to keep following this post for a bit longer, simply because I hope there is someone on i twith whom what I have to say resonnates. And once again, shame on you, Abagond for giving forum to the most vile, knowledge free haters out there. Shame on you for approaching this question from the most disempowering, lose/lose scenario possible. The question should be “what are the barriers to interracial relationships between black women and white men”. The answer yielded would put the onus on BOTH parties, and would confer upon black women the agency they very well have to choose their mates.
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And I want it to be known that nothing I have to say is meant to impugn white women. That is what divisive and futile conversations like these compel us to do. Compare and contrast women, assert that one race is more desirable than another. It’s a trap. I know many white women who were told that nice girls don’t take care of themselves. It is a vile and pernicious lie that leaves all women open to abuse, both personally and politically. I hwave good women friends of all races, and the human ability to transcend adversity is awe inspiring.
And nor do I wish to impugn white men. Yes, our caurrent system of colonialism was carried out under the auspices of racist and mysoginistic attitudes, but there have been historical warriors against this system who were white males. John Brown for instance, and other white males wiling to challenge their own privilege and reveal their own pain.
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ceilidh71
Thank you for your post. You truly summed up my feelings perfectly. I know several black women that have their sh*t together.
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@ Mike
I would like to say this for the moron mike who believes he has hit the golden ticket of truth. Wrong. I used to think like some of those women you quoted and the truth of the matter is I was insecure and looking for someone else to blame for my hatred and insecurity. Telling myself that they made me look bad.
Then I grew the F*ck up. I got stronger and I realized that none of those women make me look bad because they are not me. I don’t have several baby daddies. I am not uneducated. I am a well-rounded women that can be anything and do anything I wanted to. I’m every woman as the song goes and I have a husband who loves me just that way. My husband said to me that only weak men can not love a woman in all her forms and frankly that is what I see in men that make excuses for why they can’t be with certain women. In this case black women, but be well aware that no black woman is begging to be with you. She has a choice “ghetto” or not as Angela has pointed out.
I share skin color with many people but those people are not me. I am sure when those women grow up (or not) they will realize how dumb they sounded complaining about what other people do instead of worrying about themselves.
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dont ask me its in my top 5 how bout you
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@Sharina
You are correct and well said. We, all should worry about ourselves not what others are doing. I am sorry for my previous post(to Abagond) because it was stupid but we shouldn’t care whether or not a race of men likes or dislikes Black women. A good man that loves you regardless of race should be enough for Black women and any woman out there.
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@ Adeen
Don’t be sorry for your past quotes. There is nothing wrong with them and there is nothing wrong with Abagond for rehashing this. It needs to be put out there. You can’t fix a problem or learn if you don’t talk about it. There were some wise words spoken here. Words that can help others learn and grow.
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@Sharina
I do not mind a discussion about race, but there are certain ways of framing a debate that create a dialogue that is inherently one sided or, in this case, demeaning to the parties involved. Language is an extremely powerful tool, and if used poorly, creates more problems than it solves.
It is perhaps unfair of me to question Abagond’s motives in posting. I think I understand what he is trying to get at, and I think understand that he is trying to get to the heart of a system that is inherently unfair, based in cruelty and the commodification of the “other” and of black women. Commodification is when you turn something or someone into merchandise. This happened in slavery and still happens in the media when women’s bodies (and nowadays men’s) are used to sell objects and goods.
Objectification is akin to commodification. When we objectifiy human beings, we stop seeing them as people like ourselves,but as objects available to our use and pleasure. We do not owe a fair exchange with an object and we do not have to be accountable to a chair. We do not have to respect an object like a hat or a shoe. Its sole value is in what it does for us. Most importantly, when we own a car, we do not have to question ourselves or our motives. Being married for a long time to a person (not an object) I have to hold myself accountable. I have to question myself, I have to soul search , to try hard, to grow, to be selfless and to self sacrifice. Loving another person is not at all like loving a car. But our culture often lures us into believing that people are objects. Objects do not force us to grow. Black women, because we speak out, demand and confront, force the men we are with to grow in order to be with us. Cars and objects, submissive women and women who let themselves be objects do not.
Our culture objectifies women all the time. Our media and advertising presents women as beautiful objects to be possessed- when we use a woman’s body to compel someone to purchase a car, we are subtly, subliminally imparting the message that a woman can be owned like a car. You can wax her up and ride her and s as much as you like, without any need to respect her, listen to her, be accountable to her or understand and empathize with her. When you are done with her, you can trade her in for a newer or better model. You have to have money and status to own this “object” but you don’t have to respect, love, listen to, care for and be accountable to this “thing.” Keep her well shod, only because it makes her more useful to you and your urges- just like a car or a really nice bathtub.
By asking the question “why do so few white man marry black women” there is the implication that black women are like cars- waiting in some sort of store room to be picked and chosen by the discerning purchasing white male. I know Abagond probably did not mean this in this way. He is, like the rest of us, a victim in this culture where marriage did start out as a commodifying phenomenon. Because, in history, and in some places around the world, women did used to be and are bartered and sold for land to cement political unions.
However it is a new day, and as a species I would like to believe we are moving away from the commodification and objectification of other human beings.
First of all, the post puts black women into the position of defending themselves. It gives too much power to white men as “choosers” of black women. It demands that black women defend stereotypes of themselves, and it keeps us all from analyzing a cuture which 1) villifies women for having a sexual appetite equal to that of a man, 2) pays women less for equal work 3) punishes child bearing by making it almost impossible to work full time and have child care 4)creates rap songs and cinematic images of black women as objectified sexual objects or lazy or irresponsible,w hen often times black women are the sole heads of housholds, put themselves through school and kept the entire black race from going under during centuries of oppression. Every black woman I know, starting with my grandmother on down, are miracle makers, creating feats of survival and transcendence that I have yet to see a white man manifest.
I understand what Abagond is trying to unearth- he is trying deconstruct an unfair and unjust culture. However, this line of questioning does not really get to the heart of the matter,
Abagond, I understand your concern when you hear white men speak demeaningly about black wonmen, and how disturbing that might be for you. However, as much as I sense and feel your compassion for black women when you encounter such ignorance, framing the discussion in this way only perpetuates the problem you are seeking to solve. I understand that this might not be because you are trying to be cruel or mean. It must be painful to hear black women objectified and stereotyped in this way.
However, the onus for white male sexism and racism is not on me or any other black woman to “clean up my act.” The onus is on white males to stop being racist. End of discussion. The only way racism will stop is if racist people stop it. And haters are gonna hate, no matter how much they know, deep down, who and what you are.
Because if black women were actually able to hold white males collectively accountable for the brutality, nastiness and destruction from the past to the present, most white males would spend, a long, hot time in hell. From global warming to genocides and disappearance of entire human populations and animal species, white men, if we are asking people to “clean up their act” , have a lot to clean up, starting with the plastic and oil ridden oceans, which black women had no personal hand in polluting. Black women were not the ones who thought plastic and pumping oil from the oceans was a good didea. Black women did not invent gas guzzling cars, did not create belching factories, or the slave labor needed to work them. Read your history and determine where all this “progress” came from. Not from my loins.
The way history is told and presented, we are not able to fully discern the utter degradation of the planet and of people’sthat European colonialism has subjected and continues to subject the world to. -perhaps will never know what our own Western, so-called democratic governments have done in the name of American people or in the name of White supremacy. Have you ever read about “manifest destiny” or the “white man’s burden”? Such philosophies are merely the tip of an iceberg in a world view that justified and justifies the most corrupt abuses perpetrated on our planet and our peoples by… white males.
I am not trying to vilify white males. I am making the argument that you can take any group of people and lay the fault of collective ills on their doorstep. Is doing so productive, helpful, or leave anyone feeling less angry and defensive? Probably not, but it makes a point. No one is better or more moral than anyone else.
However, once again, white male racism towards black women is not my responsibility to “clean up” by being some sort of perfect goddess. What I am saying is that we all are “sinners” including and especially white males. I do not think that white men are any more inherently evil than black women, but this line of questioning, makes white men seem like they are some sort of superior, morally acsendant beings who have their pick of us poor mortal women of color in the world. I do not want to say that white males are bad, but merely to say that you cannot ask any group of people “to clean up their act” when it comes to morality. You can put any group of people in a room and go through a list of their collective flaws and faults. And I think that white men continue to display more collective abuses than any other race. After all it was a not a black women who created this insane housing market. Bernie Madoff was not a black woman. It was not a black woman who caused stock markets to crash or for people to lose their life time savings. The US Government is not bailing out black women right now, it is bailing out banks and brokerage firms, all headed by… white men. The biggest welfare queen? The white male stockbroker. (And I know becuase I worked on wall street.)
Maybe you can ask a black woman why she does not want to marry a white man and she might respond, “I don’t want to be with someone who causes the global economy to go into the tank.”
Just because white men enjoy high status in our society, it does not make them morally above anyone else. Every group of people has their sins. However, in societies that celebrate wealth over character, and where power is equated with moral goodness, I suppose it is possible to configure reality as white men being somehow morally superior to other groups of people. White men, enjoying relative collective high status have the luxury of work that allows them to fully support their families, and to not be punished for their sexuality.
I have lived in integrated settings with privileged, white people my whole life. I count many of these people as good friends. However, let me get this straight, white people do just as many drugs, have just as much unfettered sex, have just as many abortions, and make just as many mistakes as any other group of people. I had a roommate once, (white) who was surprised that I did not go through a “shoplifting phase” as she did herself. I was not surprised by her shock, because so many white people I knew shoplifted. However, my privilged associates have fail-safes that allow them to indulge in this “exerimentation” and in these mistakes. Look at the drug laws, which are more stringent in inner cities than in Suburbs. Hell, read Tim Wise, he will hep you to this stuff.
Read history. In Victorian England, the poor were always defamed in the conversation of the landed classes. Read Dickens as he depicts the hypocrasy of the upper classes. Read about the rich males who frequened prostitutes and blamed their moral wanderings on the women they exploited. Read about the social, class injustice led to the French Revolution. The upper class was just as decadent as the lower classes but the lower classes were presented as deserving of their bad economic state because wealthy people always like to pretend that they “deserved” the riches they got through feudalism and oppression. Please, people, read. Read, history, read social critics, read philosophers, read Marx, Tolstoy. Read. You don’t have to have money or privilege to read either.
This whole discussion does to black women what was done in the market places and town squares where black women were bought and sold during slavery.
My worth and the worth of no other human being has nothing, and let me repeat this, nothing to do with, 1) what I look like. 2) how I act. 3) the choices I have made 4) my economic status 5) who likes me 6) what people say about me 7) what any document, religion or creed says about me and my worth. My worth, like that of white men, is God given and inherent.
My black sisters, READ YOUR HISTORY. Unearth and uncover the unsung black women who held this country accountable to its highest ideals and most noble aspirations. Read about Mary Ann Shadd C, Ida B. Well, Maria W. Stewart, too many to name. And when I see a ghetto sista in the street, as educated as I am, I know full well that I am no better than her. I know what she is going through because every day, I can see the contempt for blackness and femaleness reflected in the eyes of those around me, despite the miracles that black women pull off everyday in a society that has never valued them and continues this devaluation in so many ways.
And yes, I lose my temper too. But I never, ever regret it. I THANK GOD every day for being a black woman who speaks up when she needs to. I thank God for this gift. I have too many white friends and friends from other races who find it almost impossible to take care of themselves or their children. I do not care if some ignorant person, of any gender or race, judges me for it. They are not worthy of the gifts of my potent sexuality, my gentle grace, my intellectual prowess or my creative brilliance. Black woman is amazing, even if she struggles, even if she fails. Hell, a lot of these white men who disparage sistas you meet in New York, Abagaond, are probably AFRAID of these sistas. And they should be, because we are fierce.
I will end with an anecdote. Recently I was in Manhattan with my husband, who is white and some of our mutual and not so mutual friends. All white. When one of his friends came to the table I immediately felt unworthy is some way. I am, like many sistas, highly intuitive. Because I have had the luxury of introspection, I was able to discern that I was “taking on” the energy from one of my husband’s friends. I readjusted myself, became aware of my worth and was my usual, fun, charming self. Not too much time later, I noticed that this man seemed to be really enjoying my company. He was laughing at all my jokes and seemed a little charmed. i enjoyed our energy exchange. I am pretty sure he “forgot” my race. Or it might have heightened my beauty. Now, it may not be that this guy is racist. It could have been a million things or that he thought he was better. Who knows. However, I was able to turn all that bad mojo around. Lots of white guys like me. Lots of guys like me. Some do not. I don’t care. Which is the sexiest weapon any person has in their arsenal. Confidence. Black women, you might meet a person who has some racist, subliminal thing going on. But if you don’t take it on, it can’t touch you. And if you do take it on, don’t beat yourself up. You are not responsible for anyone else’s racism or sexism ( a hard lesson I learned). If you feel scared, sad, happy- those are your feelings, and you have the right to them. But, if you don’t take on their stuff, they might relax and be able to enjoy their attraction to you, because they feel safe around your confidence. However, the irony about confidence is that you don’t get it by worrying what the hell someone thinks. Hell, being vulnerable is a form of confidence. If that friend of my husband’s continued to give me bad mojo, it’s not on me to “clean up my act” and turn my life around. He is the racist wimp with the complex. And because I have my own power and beauty, I dont need him to like or affirm me. Moving on. And to my ghetto sistas, “Go on with ya bad self.” In another decade, every other race of woman and her cousin will be copping your style, your moxy and your flow. Read history. Read about the “hottentot venus” kept in a cage because of the fascination with her high ass, and how Europeans adopted the cumberbun on the back of their dresses to emulate her beauty. They are watching, fearful, awed and fascinated. Don’t worry about them, this post, or what anyone has to say about you. If you have something in your life you want to change, change it because you love yourself enough to care for yourself. Black woman, You are beautiful.
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@ Angela
well said.
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idk how all this crap from 3 years ago is on the radar screen but clearly we all see whats up
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I know I have said a lot on ths topic already but something else is still on my mind. The cinematic image of black femininity.
Deep in our hearts, we all know and have heard countless stories of black women who have accomplished the impossible- raised children on their own, while holding down six jobs and caring for everyone in the community. These are not exceptions to the rule either. When I was growing up heroic black women were commonplace. Most of us as black folks know that the iron strength of black women was forged in the fires of unbelievable oppression. Even the so-called “ghetto” sista is facing ever surmounting odds and is usually got her nose to the grind, trying to make things happen positively for her and her family around her.
However, every time you turn on around there is someone, often but not limited to, a black man creating some oscar award nominated movie which belies and besmrirches this truth about black women. The movie Precious and even the movie The Help gies a skewed, self serving paen to the collective ego of racially ignorant white people.
A white fantasy like The Help, which in the end, seems to accredit the success of the civil rights movement in the South to some white girl writing a letter in a New York magazine was made before the true story of Rosa Parks was ever released as a blockbuster hit. And Rosa Parks never shit in anybody’s pie to make a point. Black women, including my mother, were deeply politicized, and did and do courageous things daily to uplift the race, in quietly subversive ways other than the ones depicted in The Help.
We have to be subjected to so-called deep movie like Precious before someone does a powerful, moving motion picture about Harriet Tubman- who was, in reality, the very first, flesh and blood “Katniss.” (protagonist of Hunger Games)) I have done much research and come across many stories of black women doing amazing things. But what are the rare films that get made and receive critical acclaim? Movies like Precious. In which a black woman debases her child in horrid ways. Do things like that happen? Yes. But somehow, there isn’t a movie a month that shows that other real things happen- exactly what white men did and continue to do around the world to further their own globalist agendas.
However, the movie houses and tv shows are pounding us daily with depictions of white males who are saving the day, being heroes, doing everythring right- from Indiana Jones to Tom Cruise vehicles to every tv show ever made, we are inundated with how really amazing and heroic white males are. You can’t turn on the television without some white guy doing something incredibly impulsive and brilliant to get out of trouble and save hostages. And how do they do these amazing feats? With violence, that’s how. So, these images do not actually serve white males, and often lead said white males to believe that all they have to do is pop a pistol, dirty Harry style, and all their problems will be literally “blown away.” We have had an epidemic of mass violence in America, often perpetrated by white males. They are as intoxicated and inundated with the fantasy of the lone white male avenger as anyone else is.
So, for me, the posts in which black women are trying to distance themselves from so called other ghetto black women is just beyond disheartening. When I read these posts and see some black woman talking about how she is not like those other, “lesser” black women, I feel something like despair. They succumb to a tactic of divide and conquer. Movies like Precious get so much love because they let everybody not black feel morally superior to dysfunction in the black community without being implicated for it.
Then you have rap videos, which I am not even going to get into right now. However, we all know that the problem is Propaganda. White men have a big money, well-oiled propaganda machine and Black women do not.
Do I mean to demonize white men? No. However, sometimes it is necessary to deconstruct that firmly entrenched Propaganda Machine that is Hollywood. We have to examine the subconscious brainwashing that we receive daily about just how awesome one group of people is and how worthless another is. And as black women, we must never let someone back us into a corner where we disavow THOSE other black women, the ones who “give us a bad name.” Those “other black women” are often one sided media creations and have nothing to do with the day to day reality of women under stress with little support and or resources. The movie Precious might have attempted to show how stressed out some black women are daily, but it did at the expense of black women as a whole. It turned black women into a sacrificial scapegoat for the oppression that has been inherited in a society that treats people as commodities, especially people of color.
When you are a black women, you get pushed every day. What I mean by this is, you can walk into a situation and be credentialed and experienced, and people will test and challenge you, because of someone’s unfounded, propaganda induced perception of your gender and the color of your skin. If you are a black woman without the privilege of higher education, I cannot imagine how “pushed” you might be on a regular basis and how much ready you are to snap. Not because a higher education makes you more worthy but it might make you verbally better armed to deal with the daily slights put out by the ignorant and status obsessed. But instead of the filmmaker behind Precious going into the day of the life of a dark skinned, heavier black woman and how she might walk into the workplace and get “pushed” the movie has got to show a black mother, usually the only ally a young black woman has, completely abusing her child. Ludicrous. And it just completely lets white America off the hook for so much of its history and present day policies. White America created the Ghetto we so love to accuse people of being like. James Baldwin, to paraphrase, said that the nigger is white people’s own self, projected outward onto people whom they have captured and humiliated.
Once I had a friend over when I was scolding my child. This friend was not white and not black. Immediately he looked at me and said I was like Monique in Precious. And the thing is, I hug, kiss, affirm, educate and love my child on a minute to minute basis. In the glare and haze of these skewed depictions of black maternity, my actual love is completely obliterated. This year, after years of being my friend, he was able to reframe his interpretation of that movie. But do you understand how dangerous of a film that is? The film should be there, but the paucity of films about people like me, make it a dangerous film it it is the sole media represenation of me and mine.
I am scolding my kid because it’s necessary and the only model someone has to compare me to is Monique in Precious? Today, I ranted to my kid for at least ten minutes about getting his butt in gear to get to Church. As did my mother before me and her other before her and countless churchgoing, God fearing black women. That is who we are, not demon possessed entities like Monique’s character in Precious. But where is the daily inundation of movies and TV shows depicting our every day heroism and deeply ingrained spirituality? Turn on the TV and you’ll see white dudes jumping from rooftops and chasing down criminals, and the effort it takes me psychologically to still have faith in a Higher Power is never depicted, examined or dramatized. However, if I snap one day because I have absolutely had it, you can bet your bottom dollar some confused white or black male filmmaker will put that moment in a movie- a decontextualized rendering of an outburst induced by stresses said filmmaker cannot begin to understand.
The thing is, i know some very good people in this world and some very nice, caring white men. I think many people, including white men, mean well. And the media even does white men a disservice. Every TV show is concerned with terrorism, but refuses to depict the struggle white and black people in this country wen tthrough to get an eight hour workday. The reason is that the fat cats who run the planet don’t really care about the average white male either. Evil in the movies is so cartoon and simple. The real fight is never really shown. Lots of white men are frustrated economically and for good reason. It will takes us a long time to discover who our real enemy is. But believe me, they have a camera and are pointing the loaded thing at you.
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@Angela
Well said and you come off as very intelligent and full of knowledge. It is nice to hear more about it.
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@ Angela
“So, for me, the posts in which black women are trying to distance themselves from so called other ghetto black women is just beyond disheartening. When I read these posts and see some black woman talking about how she is not like those other, “lesser” black women, I feel something like despair. They succumb to a tactic of divide and conquer.”–It is but I think for me (can’t really speak for others) it is a matter of being seen as an individual. Wanting people to get to know me for who I am not who they think I should be based on tv. I know and have friends that people would consider “ghetto” but just because they are loud and aggressive does not hinder their success or make them less. It took me some time to realize that and frankly I am still learning. I am loud and aggressive too and I like having those type of women around me.
I did not look at precious because I could not bring myself to look at it. I had a discussion about it with a friend and the more she talked about it the more disgusted I became with it.
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being the loudest two people in the place makes it convenient to have a conversation across a crowded barroom
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@ Angela Great commentary. Do You have your own blog?
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Thanks y’all for he positive feedback. @mary burrell. Have not blogged in a while. Will think about posting a link here in the next coupla days. Thanks again.
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@ Mary Burrell
I was hoping for the same thing. She has a lot of knowledge to share.
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@ v8driver
I don’t really know if I can consider it loud so much as just outspoken. Black females I know will simply say what they are thinking. They will not hold back and sugar coat things.
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@ Peanut
“People don’t understand to some people all black women are the same whether they live in the ghetto or martha’s vineyard.”—I guess I find it unfair that we are to see them as individuals, but how dare we see ourselves as individuals. So often on this blog we get the lone white individual that says…why should I be punished for the wrongs of other whites.
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@Sharina ” I guess I find it unfair that we ar e to see them as individuals, but how dare we see ourselves as individuals”. Good point.
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@Angela
I like your comementaries but this is my theory. No one has to agree or disagree with me.
I believe many White males are sexually attracted to Black men however they don’t act on their desires fearing disapproval or ridicule for liking a Black girl. You see being a White American male means privilege and more opportunities than most and marrying a Black women is considered marrying down even if she has a PHD or is from a wealthy background. So most of them go for the skinny blond with blue eyes because that is what is deemed acceptable for a White male in America to date and marry. I think this happens in many cases.
It is not true that Black women are undesirable. That is a myth.
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women, my mistake
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“People don’t understand to some people all black women are the same whether they live in the ghetto or martha’s vineyard.”—I guess I find it unfair that we are to see them as individuals, but how dare we see ourselves as individuals. So often on this blog we get the lone white individual that says…why should I be punished for the wrongs of other whites.”
– – –
Sharina, I agree with your statement concerning individuality. It doesn’t make any sense to me that because others might consider all Blacks to be, say, subhuman or WHATEVER other NONSENSE they choose to believe about all / any of us, that we must regard each other and our individual selves in the same manner that these others do; or, for the matter, that we should bother giving their labels or negative associations concerning our entire race any more than a minute of consideration.
Why it seems necessary to some of us that we as Blacks need the permission of (or to check in with) non-Blacks or even with each other before we can simply view our individual selves as…individuals, I will never understand.
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@Adeen that can be one reason(white privilege), maybe for some elite whites, although I could give you examples otherwise,(Robert De Niro, Steven Spielberg) But there are other reasons. Sometimes it’s the black girl who has the preconceived notions and won’t give the guys a chance. It could also be that the guys family is “racist” and wants him to marry his own… Black people do that too. Stereotypes on both sides come into play. Remember when you point the finger there are three pointing back at yourself(depending how you hold your hand)
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You cannot blame this all on racism, although it may play a part. Racism goes both ways – a white man married to a black woman is likely to become a victim of crime committed by racist blacks who are upset that he is with a black woman.
Additionally, you should also consider the fact that black women tend to be fat, rude, and ugly. In my life I have only met a couple black women whom I ever found attractive – most are repulsive. Many white men also value intelligence in their mates, so that would rule out the vast majority of black women.
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@Steve
Why are you wasting good peoples time with this $hit. If you really have that opinion on BW why is it that this particular blog page is even on your radar.
I think your first assertiona white man married to a black woman is likely to become a victim of crime committed by racist blacks who are upset that he is with a black woman. is the most telling part of your comment……and reveals what is underlying – your fear!
For the record, women of any race do not like a coward.
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@ Steve
Considering that you are ignorant I won’t both going into all the points that make you wrong.
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correction bother*
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Haha… Steve is fat.
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@sharina eh i was just sayin that i have had a couple girlfriends who are as loud as me! Especially with a couple beers in. I’m loud. How much is hearing loss and how much is crudite is to be taken under advisement. And it’s hard to generalize, but outspoken, yeah, i admire that, i certainly am no fan of the shrinking violet type — it seems to be keepin it 100% these days — and i think there is a loyalty there, once things get real
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*called keepin it
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I think seeing how this topic started in 2009 and it is now 2013 a lot of things have changed. I know a lot of people who date interracially. Myself included, my bf is white. We’ve been together for 1.5 years and he knew within a couple months of meeting me that he wanted to marry me and that still hasn’t changed. He talks more about marriage than I do. Actually, he is the one who brings it up. But even though this is true, he had never dated a black woman before and was never attracted to one until he met me. Now he not only see’s things differently he also see’s how different I am in comparison to the stereotypical black female.
Honestly, it’s a fight you can’t win. I’m black and I’m aware of how many black women, who even if they are educated, they don’t portray themselves to be that way. They don’t speak proper english, they’re quick to have an attitude, they don’t dress in a tasteful manner, their morals and values seem to be different. I can’t deny I feel embarrassed for them. I cringe just listening to them because they seriously don’t understand how ignorant and ridiculous they sound. That most people outside of their peers don’t take them seriously and their entire perception on life, relationships and friendships is warped.
They claim to not care about what anyone else thinks and it shows. They keep to themselves and are accepted there and don’t understand what the problem is with everyone else. I’m honestly tired of trying to defend my race. I live by “if it doesn’t apply to you then don’t worry about it.” No one is looking to me to save them. I don’t blame people for feeling the way they feel (to an extent) although some opinions are really ridiculous. I don’t get lump into the same category because I carry myself differently. Although it’s natural for me it really wouldn’t kill some of these black women to get their head out of their asses and stop acting so ridiculously.
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@roz and how much of that is a reaction to the extremely hostile environment of the inner city
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@roz upon further review this is really one of those conversations i need to have, but i dont want to eff it up and i need to go to work soon, i will definitely come back to this. thanks.
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@ v8driver
I get ya.
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@ Roz
Everything you said is a description of not just blacks but whites all the same. Yet my problem comes in as why is it acceptable behavior and quickly overlooked when a white person does it but a complete embarrassment when blacks do it. It becomes a stain on the black community as if we are the inventors of this type of behavior and only we do it.
“That most people outside of their peers don’t take them seriously and their entire perception on life, relationships and friendships is warped.”—Have you taken the time to get to know any of them to truly know what their perception on life, relationships, or friendships are? Or have you concluded that is what it must be based on how they dress or act?
“I don’t get lump into the same category because I carry myself differently”—The sad part is you wouldn’t know if you did. I am educated. Three degrees to my name and you don’t know how quick people assume I have different baby daddies and am on government assistance. The only way people really know you or me is by getting to know us. You can carry yourself anyway you want but frankly in some people eyes you are black and you are that stereotype.
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@ v8driver
“how much of that is a reaction to the extremely hostile environment of the inner city”–That is a good question.
I personally have never met a black female in my life that has had an attitude for no reason. EVER. I have been to the ghetto etc. and not once have anyone given me hell just to do it. Nor have I met one dress inappropriate unless they were leaving some club.
I will say fashion today is much more revealing in the united states. Even for young teenage girls of all race the shorts are much too short. The skirts are not really skirts. Hell my list could go on.
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@v8driver
“how much of that is a reaction to the extremely hostile environment of the inner city”
I live in the suburbs outside of the city. Probably about half an hour away from Chicago. This isn’t a reaction to what goes on there. I went to a great HS in a great area. The school however began to fall through the cracks because of the neighboring areas that aren’t so great that happen to still be within district. Large Hispanic and Black population who even though they aren’t from the inner city, they’re still from an urban area and conduct themselves as the stereotypical black person. What’s worse is how there are a select group of black students who live in the nice area but will still rather portray themselves in a lower manner as if they are from the urban areas. I’ve dealt with this throughout school and college.
I’m not saying I don’t know people like myself because I do. But the stereotypical black person is the majority.
@Sharina
“why is it acceptable behavior and quickly overlooked when a white person does it but a complete embarrassment when blacks do it. It becomes a stain on the black community as if we are the inventors of this type of behavior and only we do it.”
Fact is Sharina black people did invent it. No they may not be the only people who do it but they do it the most. I have plenty of non-black friends and I can tell you now, if they have ever acted in an urban way it’s been as a joke. The ridiculous behavior that black people portray is a joke to a lot of people. The whole “I ain’t got time for that.” line that went viral after they interviewed that woman on the news, it’s popular because people find it amusing. While that woman typically speaks that way and think she’s totally normal, people are laughing and mocking her.
I’m aware black people aren’t the only ones from the bad areas. There are Hispanics, Asians and white people there too but even though they may act and speak the same they are the minority there. I don’t like the urban behavior in general no matter who lives that way.
“Have you taken the time to get to know any of them to truly know what their perception on life, relationships, or friendships are? Or have you concluded that is what it must be based on how they dress or act?”
My statement was based on either, conversations overheard or people I actually know. I hear black women comment on how they want to get thick because that’s what the black guys like, I hear women say things like “Oh I don’t date anyone unless he has a new car” even though she doesn’t have a car herself, women that act like the bitter scorned black woman towards most guys that try to speak to them. It’s ridiculous. And please don’t get me started on those that won’t step out of their comfort zone because it’s a hobby/activity that most white people do.
People don’t “know” me. But they can for sure tell you I am not the stereotypical black person and not once did they even think that I was. Of course it goes without saying there will always be at least one person who will think I’m just a black female but the majority does not see me that way. My BF is as white as they come. His family is extremely catholic, German and other types of European and they welcome me with open arms. No hesitation, no drama. Upon first meeting me, anyone can tell I don’t fit the stereotype.
I’d also like to add how if my BF and I go somewhere and if urban black people are around they give us looks. The stereotypical black woman looks at me like I think I’m hot shit because my BF is white. Then you have the stereotypical black male who looks at me like “wtf is she doing with him”, looks at him like “how did he pull he her” or they check me out almost in a way to intimidate my BF. This could be because we are all in our 20’s. I’m sure people will have matured by the time they are 40. But it doesn’t change the fact that this is nonsense I deal with now from the black community that are unlike myself.
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@roz it seems there is a real sense of abagond trying to define what is being black, besides the obvious stuff that some of my white facebook friends define as ‘over-sensitivity’ or ‘uber-lib’ tripping like that, but many non-white friends do not see as irrational. Is it natural hair, talking black, doing this, doing that, it is a subtext, or theme, I would say.
Like speaking ‘black’, I would say I slip into the speech pattern of urban black grammar quite easily, and I don’t feel it’s talking down or anything like that, I have had some moments like at work where a black guy looked at me like are you kidding me? But it’s like from my travels, I have assimilated various other fragments of dialect, NY, CA, southern yeah I wonder about that too, but also talking with lots of people on the phone from all over the country sort of assists that and heck, it just pops out. And yeah I have two BA’s, worked professionally my whole life…
My one friend, miss t, whom I have met fairly recently, was amazed that as a white man i could participate in a ‘black’ conversation with her and another female so fluently, about this and other things i have been told, ‘you must have some black in you’, you are a black man in a white body and other things that would get me flagged here for good so letting that all go now… and i have to admit while flattering, i wonder about this, as i was raised whitebread as wonder bread.
Score one for cultural competence for the white boy, but it is also sad and depressing in the urban landscape of crappy houses, lots of crack, newports, and cheap beer. BTW did I say my name was Tom, addict, alcoholic? I am not providing an outsider’s perspective on these things, just so we ‘100%’.
Honestlly, I see some of these younger teens at the mall with their fashionably ripped designer jeans (who says designer jeans anymore), trying to emulate some type of urban style, and some girls in the hood, young i might add, it’s like sheesh why don’t you just stand on the corner dressed like that, but I think that’s part of being a young adult trying to define yourself, and going above and beyond in certain directions, I know i did it.
But as far as moral degredation and loud, abusive speech, and scrapping in the street and everything, it is hard to separate the mental health piece, the addiction piece, and the cultural piece because even if one person is relatively normal, ie maybe just smokes a little weed or even not, the miasma of just like noone can fix this thing, it’s bigger than me it’s bigger than everyone i know, we can’t fix the abaondoned houses, or get jobs for everyone, or stop people doing what they do when they run out of dope money. So you don’t have to obviously participate in that lifestyle to be affected by it if you live in the city,
I can’t speak to the suburbs.
And this is not really a cogent article, just some type of rumination, here, but that’s why i came to this website, i was kind of floating along after my gf had died in my apartment a couple years ago, and i was truly trying to figure out this black community that had accepted me with my myriad issues but there was more to it than just partying and crap like that, i had to figure it out, and it’s come some way, my understanding, but ‘life is for learning….’
but yeah i cut all them tricks off, i have a ‘meetup’ with a nice one today i am so excited she has a job and don’t get high.
thanks for letting me share.
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@ Roz
“Fact is Sharina black people did invent it”—Please tell me what part of this behavior they invented then. You seem to believe they have so do by all accounts elaborate? Hell I speak a few languages and so do a few of my friends. They don’t speak proper English so are they now trash. My friend and her french husband concluded that English is moronic. Oddly enough my native English speaking friend who is learning Arabic stated the same thing. Speaking it properly does not decided a persons intelligence or lack of. Class or lack of.
“There are Hispanics, Asians and white people there too but even though they may act and speak the same they are the minority there.”—unless you have been all over the united states you can’t say what the minority of these people do. In your area maybe, but in my area ghettos are very diverse. Black neighborhoods exist and are just as beautiful and productive as the white neighborhoods. It is fine to not like the urban behavior but don’t conclude that is who a person is because they live there or because they dress a certain way. 3 popular Doctors in my area grew up in the ghetto. They bring in clients of all backgrounds.
“My statement was based on either, conversations overheard or people I actually know. I hear black women comment on how they want to get thick because that’s what the black guys like, I hear women say things like “Oh I don’t date anyone unless he has a new car” even though she doesn’t have a car herself, women that act like the bitter scorned black woman towards most guys that try to speak to them. It’s ridiculous.”—How is it ridiculous to know what you want in a guy. Should you hale to all men that give you attention. Should you lead them on with smiles. It is not wrong to be upfront in what you are looking for. Could they miss a good man that way? Yes, but it does not make them lesser than me or you.
“Of course it goes without saying there will always be at least one person who will think I’m just a black female but the majority does not see me that way.”—Again with the conclusion of what the majority thinks. You really don’t know what they think. You are assuming because you dress proper that they have concluded you are a good black. It is a nice assumption that you and I and all well educated black women have.
I have dated men of all race minus Asian (few in my area). I was engaged to a white man who frankly talked babies and the works. Got the nice weird stares and comments from blacks who later concluded I would never date a black man. Yea I have been there done that and frankly the t-shirt smells nice, but his mother was not accepting. Oh she would smile and be polite but in her mind she was like my son can’t be in love with a black. I broke it off and he now has a baby with a white “urban” chick.
People are people and if you spend your life telling yourself they are lesser than you or not as good as you, then god has a way of making you lesser. There are things that some of those women do that I don’t agree with but let me enlighten you…I have seen women of all class do it. It just seems more trashy because of the way they say it or where they live.
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@ v8driver
I have to applaud you because you made an excellent post.
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Let’s be frank. Black women are extremely diverse. We are. No one can conclude how or what the majority of black women act or think like. None of us know them all. So how can a anyone say that all black women act x. Are the majority of white women drunkin sluts who sleep with whoever at night clubs and were skirts up their azz and cuss and puke on people. No, they don’t. So why is it so easy to conclude that all black women have several kids by several men and are quick tempered?
@Roz
“The stereotypical black woman looks at me like I think I’m hot shit because my BF is white.”–Another thing I forgot to address is people’s mentality in this situation. You already have a preconceived thought of what you think the black girl is thinking of you and frankly you don’t actually know why she is giving you the look. I will use my experience for example. My husband looks white. People only realize he is not when they hear his name. I used to get looks from black girls and like you I thought they are hating or are jealous because I was with him. One of these ladies turned out to be with a white guy herself and was a little ticked that she had to work and was upset that I came in with my bf to remind her she can’t be with hers (over heard conversation with other worker…thought I was flaunting my man). Another one thought I thought I was cute and was looking at her with a stuck up attitude (yes I know. How can she really tell what the look on my face meant). In one situation my sister and I was out and I had a female look at me side ways. My sister asked her what she was her problem. It was that I was acting to uptight and boocy to be hanging in this area and she did not understand why I was there. It helps sometimes to ask rather than assume.
When you assume you give off the “i’m better than you” attitude and they will not be nice to you for it. since my sister asked…I don’t get the looks. My husband and I go there and we get smiles. They are happy to see a nice couple and a respectable couple. Many do want those things themselves. Some do feel cheated that someone else have it and they don’t. Some are even against interracial couples, but not the majority or all.
As for black men. It is not so much you are with a white man as it is with a man they consider to not be as good as them. It is ego and frankly all races have it. Think about the white chick with the black guy. I often read white guys dissing the guy etc.
You really just want to attribute behaviors that are common in all races (whether you see it or not) as only black people thing. It is not. Not one race can sit and say they are perfect in not doing these things. I can say an equal mixture. Someone else can say white majority (if you live in the country this is true). Some may say Hispanic majority and the list goes on. Your area is your area but that is not the majority. It is just a blip on the map of countless people.
“Upon first meeting me, anyone can tell I don’t fit the stereotype.”—Looks can be deceiving. People can look at someone but not know someone. On top of that what does the stereotype look like? Other than black skin that is.
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@Sharina
It would be a little ridiculous to believe that I meant speaking anything other than English equated to a lack of class. When I say a person doesn’t speak proper English, I am referring to them speaking slang/ebonics. “Tawkin lik dis don’t make no sense ta me” You learn in grade school how to form a complete sentence therefore you should utilize what you learned.
It also goes without saying that I’m speaking only based on what I know and where I have been. I clearly can’t speak about something I have no knowledge of so why even bother wasting the time to say “unless you have been all over the united states you can’t say what the minority of these people do. In your area maybe, but in my area ghettos are very diverse.”
I would also like to state that I follow a motto that “if it doesn’t apply to you then you have no worries.” Again something else that shouldn’t be explained. Why would I lump in people who don’t apply to what I am saying. I am only speaking about the STEREOTYPICAL BLACK PERSON. Maybe that’s a bit clearer for everyone.
Prime example. Take TI & Tiny’s kids. They are well off yet no one has made an effort to make the kids speak proper English.
“How is it ridiculous to know what you want in a guy. Should you hale to all men that give you attention. Should you lead them on with smiles. It is not wrong to be upfront in what you are looking for. Could they miss a good man that way? Yes, but it does not make them lesser than me or you.”
— People who think this way don’t think about the perception they give off. It’s one thing to have your list of “non-negotiables”. Like “financially stable, sense of humor, intelligence, wants children, has a great relationship with his family” Those upon many others says that this person has thought it out, they know what they want and why they want it.
However, I’m sorry, a girl who does not have a car but expects a guy to have a car no later than a 2009 in order for her to even speak to him, does not give anyone a good perception about who she is as a person. It says she may not be able to financially care for herself, she has set higher standards for a man that she won’t set for herself, and that she could just be in fact looking for someone to take care of her. What self respecting person sets higher standards for someone else? I never said I thought they were less than anyone. I am only stating that it is definitely not a respectful statement. I would not want to acquaint myself with someone who views themselves that way and others. It seems like people are incapable of looking at the bigger picture. That snowballs into other areas. So if she expects more out of a guy than she’s willing to bring to the table herself, what does that say about maybe the friendships she has? It would be easy/likely to assume that she may treat her friends or others the same way.
Now there are many women who don’t have to work. It’s acceptable for those who want to raise their kids, go to school, invest their time in a time consuming hobby, disability, or taking care of a family member etc. I think we could all agree that those are great reasons for a woman to have a man be the sole financial provider. However, a woman who is just lazy and doesn’t want to work and wants to be taken care of so she doesn’t have to do anything isn’t very admirable. My sister for example fits this scenario. She has had 3 kids with 3 different guys that she had kids with expecting them to take care of her and the kids so she wouldn’t have to. Although, she taught her 18yr old daughter how to be independent, what hard work is, how to respect herself and not to look for love from just anyone. BUT, the only way she was able to do that was by her having a very smart daughter who looks up to her Aunts and Grandmother, and has realized her mom has taught her exactly what NOT to do. Because of that mentality my sister can’t keep a job. She feels like everyone should help her even if she dug herself in a hole. Even when people tried to keep her out of said hole.
People look at these different things that people say or think and people say who cares? No one is looking at what that statement really means or who it further affects.
“Again with the conclusion of what the majority thinks. You really don’t know what they think.” — Again, based on the majority I come in contact with. I can’t possibly speak of the majority that I have not come in contact with. Some people are so quick to make a point but forget to use common sense.
I’m sorry it didn’t work out for you two.
I do think there will be some reservations when kids come into play that I believe abagond had a point about. Some white men have concerns about what their child will look like. My BF has expressed concerns as well. Will they look anything like me? Will they have any of my features? Will they be more like your complexion? What if they don’t look mixed? What if you look at them and can’t tell that I’m their dad? Of course all of these are completely understandable. It’s almost like an end to the family genes complexion wise. Being concerned with raising them and hoping they feel like they fit in with both sides of their families. Those are all definitely reasonable concerns when dating someone outside of your race. Especially with two races who are on opposite ends of the grey-scale.
But you’re right. There are women who do things that are unacceptable in general. No matter where they come from. I do feel that some races over all conduct themselves in a more positive manner. People act like stereotypes were formed out of thin air. Enough people fit the criteria and a stereotype is made. We all have stereotypes and I doubt they will stop existing. Which is why as long as you take care of yourself and ensure you don’t fall into any of the negative ones you should be fine. And if everyone followed that then there wouldn’t be any problems. Fact is the people that are a part of that behavior seem to not care enough to fix it.
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@Sharina
We’re all human and make assumptions and perceptions of people when we come in contact with them.
For the very same reason you’re supposed to dress professionally for a job interview, is how I feel about how you are perceived in public. When you’re dressed professionally people assume you mean business, you’re qualified and you’re someone to be respected. When you’re dressed in baggy pants, with your underwear showing and a tall t people will assume you’re rift raft. But if you care about yourself and how people perceive you, wouldn’t you dress in a manner that would not reflect on who you are.
I’m 25, yet I look barely 18 because I have a young face and I’m petite. If I shopped at AERO, or bought Hollister shirts with the brand name plastered across my it, people would probably assume I’m a teenager. If they did it would be my own fault because of how I am presenting myself.
Also, I don’t typically go to urban areas. The urban crowd does however shop at the malls in our area from time to time. It’s not only the looks, it’s the comments as well that solidifies what you think they are thinking. Black people have no idea how to whisper it seems lol.
Think about it like this. I live in a predominantly white suburb. Assuming I spend most of my time in this area as a lot of people here do, we probably run into the same amount of black people outside of the work place. Mall, library, grocery store…etc. I can’t count how many times I’ve been in a store and all of a sudden you hear a loud ghetto conversation “Uh uhn shaquita come look at dis. dis cute. mmhmm it’s gone hug all on my booty if I can fiiind my size. now dey know dis aint gone fit nobody but some little skinny chick. dey need to make clothes for real women wit curves” I just shake my head and I want to move as far away from them as possible.
I’m attributing these behaviors to who I see them from. It’s no secret that hearing a girl run into the store saying “OMG Rachel! Look at this dress!! It’s so cute. OMG that would look sooooo good on you. You should really get it.” is more appealing than hearing the previous convo. I’m sure it’s because of where I am from. Maybe if I grew up in an urban area I wouldn’t care. But we could what if/maybe all day.
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@v8driver
I have to agree with Sharina. Great post.
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@ Roz
“It would be a little ridiculous to believe that I meant speaking anything other than English equated to a lack of class. When I say a person doesn’t speak proper English, I am referring to them speaking slang/ebonics. “Tawkin lik dis don’t make no sense ta me” You learn in grade school how to form a complete sentence therefore you should utilize what you learned.”—That assumes that all people learned english in grade school which not all did. Yes, I agree people should utilize what they learn but like people learn another language…They don’t always choose to speak it. It is a choice and while it does not make sense to you and you see it as bad that does not mean those people are bad.
“What self respecting person sets higher standards for someone else?”—If I had to go down the list of women this applies to including race of each then we would be here all day. The thing about it is some women are more open in this regard and others are more reserved.
“However, a woman who is just lazy and doesn’t want to work and wants to be taken care of so she doesn’t have to do anything isn’t very admirable.”—I agree with you here. This is actually one of my pet peeves. It annoys me to no end when I deal with women that are like that. When I was working I helped someone get a job. I so regretted every bit. She did not really want the job and showed up for the internview a hot mess. The Hr members did not judge and gave her a chance. She was set for the third interview and did not show up.So far I know she is now having her 4th kid and is not working anywhere and really is not trying. On the other hand my sister fits the stereotype, but she works and has her own. She is the only person I know that can find a job in a week flat. 2 days if she is trying hard enough.
“I’m sorry it didn’t work out for you two.”—Don’t be. I was not interested in him and I only really dated him to see if I could. It was for the best to have it end. I was more interested in Foreign men.
I agree that we all by human nature judge a book by its cover. I am guilty of doing it at times. That is why I get so upset when others do it because I know what a slap in the face it has been to judge someone and have them completely make me look like a fool. I don’t feel embarrassed when I see those that actually are the stereotype though. The main reason is because it is not me. If I was on maury or dealing with several baby daddies, then yes by all means I would be embarrassed for myself and others that are like me. I like being an individual and I like having people in my life that treat me as such and because I was bless to have people judge me based on my personality. I like to spread that as well.
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thanks roz and sharina
well i have friends here you know
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and eh vicki the one that died was pregnant she was 49 and had tubes tied but… it happened it was medically confirmed but it had like 1 in a million chance to live…
i mostly date women like 45-47 like that im 43 kids not so much like more than the 4 i already have are not needed
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the hood is just a nightmare of hell though with the drugs everyone has a stem on them at all times (i do not have one at all) it is driving me insane
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While i will not address anyone directly about the illogical myths and stereotypes placed on Black women, i will say this:
IME, Black woman have been the MOST articulate, intelligent, caring, beautiful (yes physically) women that i have ever known whether professionally or personally…
When i am having a hard time at work, it is the Black women there who become my mentors.
ALL this talk about Black women are “ghetto”, “belligerent”????
Come to my work/break room and see for yourself which race of women uses the “f” word in every other sentence and you will quickly come to the conclusion that it is not Black women who are “angry”…
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@ v8driver
I went to the hood today. I sat in the car with my windows down. I allowed the barber to take my son into the shop where my husband was and cut his hair. I really think it is all just stigma. People see it in different lights. Now I have a different view now because of the choice I made to take the stick out of my azz, but be very clear I would not have been caught dead down there at one time in my life. I know white upper-class women and men who drive their expensive cars to the hood and shop. No fear at all. For the most part once you make friends then you are like family.
@ Roz
Tell your fiance not to worry so much. I know those fears all too well and sadly none of our kids really look like either of us. My son has been mistaken for east Indian and my daughter Filipino. My husband’s brother wife is black and Their kids look Mexican. My sister-in-law married a white man and all her kids look Mexican.
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All of these comments are based on our own individual experiences. I don’t work in an office, I’m still in my 20’s so I come across the stereotypical black female more often than I do the educated black female.
It’s obvious there will be a difference in what we experience based on our age/work place/place of residence. I don’t doubt that any of you know these educated black women. I’m not saying they’re some sort of unicorn. I was only speaking about MY experiences and MY opinion and how I feel about those stereotypical women I come across.
@Sharina
You are becoming really annoying, really fast. Again, and this will be the final time I will reiterate. I obviously am not talking about people that did not learn English. Why do you insist on poking holes by making a statement “well not everyone did xyz” I’m not talking about anyone it does not apply to. I am talking about those that did. I am also talking about people that I know.
You’re talking about a small percentage of people. Not to mention I don’t mean English as a language. English the subject. Where you learn proper grammar and sentence structure. That is something they teach in grade school, it’s part of the curriculum. At least it should be taught and if it isn’t there’s something wrong with the school. I don’t understand why I even have to dumb this down.
When you go to school and get the same education as your peers and you see them not utilize it, it’s frustrating. I never said that made them a bad person. It does however make them lazy. I don’t want to be associated with people like that. They say you are the company that you keep. I choose to spend my time with people I don’t have to be embarrassed for or people I would be embarrassed by. I’m allowed to do that and so far I haven’t missed out on anything.
Now please. If you’re going to rebuttal, make a valid argument instead of focusing on who doesn’t apply to what I’m saying and comment on those that do.
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black guys definitely hit on women different than white guys like i just don’t see something i like on the street and be like hey baby can i get your number, i try to talk to them first, a lot of times they start talking to me, plus white people will just walk right past ya with out saying good morning or something and if you live here it’s kind of expected to show manners
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@ Sharina
Thank you. He won’t feel at ease until he actually see’s them. Which won’t be for a long long time. We’re not married yet, and I’m waiting at least a couple of years after marriage before I pop anything out. Until then he just needs to not think about it. I’m not.
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@ Roz
“You are becoming really annoying, really fast. Again, and this will be the final time I will reiterate. I obviously am not talking about people that did not learn English. Why do you insist on poking holes by making a statement “well not everyone did xyz” I’m not talking about anyone it does not apply to. I am talking about those that did. I am also talking about people that I know.”— You don’t seem to be a sharp tool. When I spoke of other languages I was frankly referring to people who do know English but also other languages. I was not talking about people who just don’t know English at all. An example might better help this click for you. My Filipino friend speaks Tagalog. She learned English in school. Often time she slangs her English. Same with this Jamaican I know. She knows “proper” English but at times she does slang it. Some in here have referred to it as code switching in cases when blacks switch from slang to proper english.
“You’re talking about a small percentage of people. Not to mention I don’t mean English as a language. English the subject. Where you learn proper grammar and sentence structure. That is something they teach in grade school, it’s part of the curriculum. At least it should be taught and if it isn’t there’s something wrong with the school. I don’t understand why I even have to dumb this down”—If you are dumbing it down it is not for me. You are walking yourself in a circle of confusion and back peddling. I don’t think you even know what I am saying and have decided to get snippy with me. As I stated before…and allow me to quote it….”They don’t always choose to speak it. It is a choice and while it does not make sense to you and you see it as bad that does not mean those people are bad.”
“Now please. If you’re going to rebuttal, make a valid argument instead of focusing on who doesn’t apply to what I’m saying and comment on those that do.”—I made one. It just flew over you head. My argument was not so much who it does not apply to as it is something that can apply to any race of women. I proved my point before it even got this far. I don’t think I needed to prove anything else.
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@ Sharina, Sister you are my Shero. You know you need to have your own blog.
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@ v8driver
Do you live in the south? I know that is usually expected in the south.
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I am so glad God is not judge us as mankind does.
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@ Mary Burrell
Thank you. I think I would leave that to Angela because she is much better at it than me.
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*Correction* ” I’m glad the creator does not judge us as mankind does”.
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@ Mary Burrell
I am also thankful for that. Truth of the matter is when some women judge people I don’t even think they truly realize they are looking down on other black women and I like this very point that Angela made.
My sister is exactly what people see as the “ghetto” “stereotypical” black female. I would put her at a distance in my life and she would always say I thought I was better than her. After reflection I realized that subconsciously I did think that.
Black women are very intuitive. Almost every black woman I had an issue with said the same thing my sister did. That I felt I was better than them and it showed in my face and in my attitudes towards them. I did not know, but once I adjusted myself and my attitude things were much better.
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This does not mean that I don’t think that some have screwed up priorities (this I learned after talking with them), but who am I to judge.
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@sharina sw philly
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pennsylvania cities are interesting
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@Roz
You shouldn’t lump all Black women into a stereotype because that is what you are doing. I am not a stereotypical Black women and nor do I aspire to be but not to prove people like you wrong but to prove myself in this racist society.
@Sharina and Mary
Thanks for coming on here to defend Black women. Not all of us Black women are loud, fat, ugly or wear hair weaves because I know I don’t and I am a Black woman. Many men of different races and even men in our race make excuses that we are too ghetto, not pretty enough, too fat etc for the reasons why they wouldn’t date us. Why don’t they flat out say that they prefer White women? I wouldn’t care because you can find a man who loves you for who you are not your skin color.
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And this is a question I want to know. I can’t answer but maybe someone can. If these so called black stereotypical behaviors can be seen and exhibited by all races…then why is it that only black women are painted as bad when they do it? Why is it negative for them and only them? Why are they judged so harshly for behavior that not all black women exhibit at all. Yet let white women do this and you get…they are the minority…not that many do it or white women don’t do that at all. Yet it is not even fathomed that the amount of black women that do it might actually be the minority as well.
If anything I see certain behaviors as a problem in this country and not a problem that one race has over another.
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@Sharina
I wondered that too but this country was founded on the degrading and dehumanizing Blacks including Black women. Of course, we are always us Black women are always scrutinized for everything we do yet they hate us.
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@Sharina
Lol. Trust me. I was well aware that you were talking about people who know English but speak other languages.
Wtf is it so hard to expect people to use proper English?!
You can condone Ebonics all you want but when you have women walking around saying things in a ghetto fashion, people of any race, they sound uneducated and people outside of their world of acceptance do not take them seriously. I said they were lazy and they sound uneducated. Didn’t say it made them bad people. Just makes them sound stupid.
Also, this is MY opinion. Although, many people happen to share this opinion with me. Probably why Ebonics isn’t too hot in corporate. It doesn’t give off a professional image.
And black people wonder why a white person says “Oh you’re so articulate.” When they actually meet a black person who uses proper English.
Whatever though. My mom taught me along time ago i don’t have to like or spend time with anyone I don’t want to. So if they speak Ebonics we don’t have o be friends because there isn’t a single place I would take them with me where they would not stand out and look like an idiot.
That’s like saying I have common sense. I just choose not to use it. Wth would you chose the less beneficial option?!
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@Adeen
Not once did I say anything applies to ALL black women. I have stated many times that I was ONLY speaking about the stereotypical black women. So those who DO fit the stereotype. If it doesn’t apply to you then you’re not who I am speaking about. Therefore there’s no reason for anyone here to get bent out of shape.
The same way I react to people when they make references to the stereotypical black person. I am not even slightly offended because it does not apply to me. I don’t care one bit. Which is why I find it hard to understand why everyone feels the need to say “well not all black women are ghetto…etc” Clearly, I never said all. So we would agree. Because you know if I say all black women, that would include myself. And as I have already stated, these stereotypes don’t apply to me.
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@ Roz
Welcome! I think you will meet resistance when you are new here. Abagond’s blog is known for trolls that will spout the same type of vitriol regarding the “woes of black folk” so that is where you will have various commenters challenge you on your experience. This space is a great place to learn and gab about all things so feel free to express yourself. But just know your words will be challenged. *Applause to you Sharina*:-D
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@ Roz
“Lol. Trust me. I was well aware that you were talking about people who know English but speak other languages. “—Do you? This is a quote from what you have said “I obviously am not talking about people that did not learn English.” This is only one thing that I mean by the back-peddling and constant bringing about of confusion. This is only one of the few that you have done.
“Wtf is it so hard to expect people to use proper English?! “—You can expect it all day. No one is telling you that you should not expect it, but to judge people on it is another thing. It is not something I do. I think it is wrong. You see it as a bad quality. I don’t.
“Whatever though. My mom taught me along time ago i don’t have to like or spend time with anyone I don’t want to. So if they speak Ebonics we don’t have o be friends because there isn’t a single place I would take them with me where they would not stand out and look like an idiot.”—This is what you are not getting. No one is telling you to or even asking you to be friends with these people, but you are frankly getting upset as if I am slapping you down with have to. Take down your defense. The only thing I have said and gave great examples of is A. These behaviors are in all races. Not just blacks and B. Don’t be quick to judge a book by its cover.
None of that equated to “Roz you need to be friends with them.” But I did point out that if you are not willing to get to know them, then how can you be fit to judge what they really are like?
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@ lifelearner
:)~ So I’m a troll now?
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@v8driver
I have family up there. I would visit, but I am not 100% set on city areas. Although I need to get out of that habit because it is time to make visits to all family members and most live in city areas.
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eh, it’s ok. it’s all i’ve got right now. You might want to do the tourist thing and all that, there’s plenty to do and see here, close to NYC, all that.
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@ Sharina
Nooo!!! You are far from it. Keep up the good work! 😀
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@lifelearner
Haha. I am aware. Funny thing is, I’ve posted here about a year or 2 ago so I’m no newbie. For someone who loves to debate however this isn’t exactly a worthy debate.
@Sharina
I’m really questioning your ability to remember what you said and your ability to read. I said and then you responded “You learn in grade school how to form a complete sentence therefore you should utilize what you learned.”—That assumes that all people learned English in grade school which not all did.”
Maybe I need to spoon feed you and place an IF before the you. Seeing how you can’t seem to reach that conclusion yourself. It’s common knowledge and you’re choosing to argue points that offer nothing to what I stated. You my dear could be in politics.
Also, I wouldn’t say that I judge people. I value people for their efforts, self respect and what they can bring to the table. People fail to realize when you associate yourself with people with a list of negative qualities there’s not much you can gain from that relationship. If Ebonics was so acceptable then corporate wouldn’t frown upon it. It is definitely a bad quality because there’s no way you can speak to the avg CEO of a company with Ebonics and expect to be taken seriously. Anyone of any higher social status is aware of how important it is to speak proper English and the fact that you shrug it off as if it’s nothing says a lot about you or at least the company you keep. It doesn’t make them a bad person for using it but it does make people think they’re not intelligent and lazy.
Your appearance and how you speak is basically your business card. People should take that into account when out in public but many don’t and it’s sad. I feel bad they may not make it very far. I have black friends who I love dearly but they are unaware how to properly handle a lot of situations. It makes it hard for us to go out places because if something doesn’t go according to plan they have no idea how to properly speak to someone in order to resolve things.
I never said any of these things don’t apply to other races. However, personally I don’t have any of these problems with any other races.
We can agree to disagree what a bad quality is and what isn’t though.
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How do you stop getting updates on this post?
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@Angela
In your email of the blog update there should be a link that says subscription options. Click it and and hover over Abagond and a delete link should appear. Hope that helps.
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This is a very futile discussion and I would really like to get off of this blog. How do I stop getting updates.
@Roz
You sound like a very unpleasant, self righteous, egotisitical, narcissistic person lacking in both maturity and compassion.
Your distaste for members of your own race, your lack of understanding for your own history is obvious and palpable.
Ebonics, or African American Vernacular English developed as a form of solidarity among members of an oppressed race. Africans, when brought to America, were tortured, raped and brainwashed into believing that they were objects, not worth more than instruments whose whole existence was based on being utilized by other people.
The way to convince people that they are objects, is to deny them their history and culture and language. Black people from Ghana, and Nigeria and other historied African cultures were tortured every time they spoke in their own language. They were beaten if they worshipped their own Gods and performed their own traditions.
However, the strength and power of black people, the resilience of black people showed in an attempt to preserve their own autonomy. How could a group of people express solidarity with one another under such cruel conditions. Remember, Roz, black mothers had their babies sold away, their husbands, lynched and castrated and their private parts violated and treated as property of the European colonizers of America.
Language is a very power tool. It is not just words, language can be a cohesive, reifying force containing the traditions and world views of an entire culture.
When black people undergo a continuous rejection of their worth, starting in slavery and continuing until this day, a way to maintain loyalty and belief in ones own autonomy and collective self is through the use of ebonics or African American Vernacular English.
TO me, ebonics is a form of resistance. It is the remnants of broken and forgotten languages and cultures. It is an insistence that one’s culture is worthwhile.
How can I explain this? Let’s take black men for instance. Do you know what I find remarkable? All of us or most of us watched tv growing up. Every time you turn on the television, the images on the screen insist that thin, straight nosed, thin lipped white skinned women are the epitome of beauty. We get it every day, we see it in ads, we see it in magazines. And yes, in slavery and post slavery, the blacks who looked more white were favored. Basically, coming at you from all sides, through violent induction and seductive images on the television, all people around the people, are told constantly that whiteness is the be all end all, especially for feminine beauty.
So, do you know what I find amazing? That, to this day, black men insist on homages and odes to to the unique beauty of black women. Remember that guy- sir Pop A lot- oh I can’t remember his name. But he did that, “I like big butts an I cannot lie.” On the one hand, it’s kind of gross and objectifiying etc. But on the other hand, that insistence of a black man loving something so particularly black- no matter how much we are all inundatedowith white thin women as being the ideal of beauty, is really quite extraordinary. And our self love is so strong that even white men have to stop being in denial about the potency of black beauty.
It’s an act of subversion. Our self love as a people, no matter what we have been through is pretty powerful, heady and seductive. And the backhanded compliment American dominant culture and media plays to the unique beauty of black women is a kind of white-face. Kim Kardashian and J. Lo, even Angelina Jolie- is a way in which white folks can claim what is beautiful
about black women without actually acknowledging the specialness of the way many of us look.
I think of language in the same way. Sometimes, Roz, some things are spiritually and psychologically more important than social climbing or capitualting to the standards of the dominant culture.
It’s kind of like the movie Braveheart. The Mel Gibson character insists on maintaining his culture and life, even if it is futile in a way, and could be considered self destructive. Back in the day, the shuffling and scraping black man probably survived better than the defiant, warrior black man. Outnumbered and outgunned, the black man who defied the slave “masters” got killed. But, deep in our hearts, who do we revere? Who do we find more honorable?
I think, unonsciously and subliminally, black Americans insist on Ebonics because it is a form of defiance against culture that has a pattern of insisting that anything that comes from blackness is inherently worthless and primitive. Until they copy it. Until they appropriate it, steal it, imitate it.
Europeans did this in India and Africa and the Americas. In EM Forster’s novel A Passage To India, Forster depicts the contempt that the British had for the people in the countries they occupied. in this case, India. But the conquerors are often more primitive than the conquered. The British thought that the Indians’ religion was pagan and barbaric. However, now, every white girl and her mother has her own yoga mat, meditates and names her damn kid, Chanti, Shakti and variations on a theme. The British were “Christian” but practiced a barbaric, self serving bastardized version of this religion. It took Ghandi to teach them what Christianity really was, as much as he was Hindu. Ghandi said, “I love your Christ but not your Christians.” Becuase Europeans were backward. Dominating the world, having all the money and winning all the wars does not really denote more character or moral superiority I think it’s interesting that we associate British accents with more refinement and dignity, when the Brits went out and barbarically conquered everyone they could. Once again, the misguided conflation of dominance with morality. Who says that Ebonics is a backward, ignorant language? White people. And white people are right, good better because they run the market place. And the markeplace is God, right? Maybe Ebonics has a poetry and potence that standard English does not. And even what we consider cursewords- the word shit was the anglo saxo word for defacation. When the Romans occupied Britain, they, like white Americans do to Black Americans- insisted that the British original indigenous language was wrong. So the British, Anglo Saxon word for defecation was made bad and wrong and a curseword. And that is how power works. Is the word shit inherently wrong? No, but it was the language of the powerless and the dispossessed. And meanwhile the powerful always appropriate the customs of those whome they conquer.
The first song that the Rolling Stones did was a remake of, I believe a Muddy Waters song. Must fact check that but I knew it was a black musician they imitated. Eric Clapton, Janis Joplin, Elvis. Jerry Lewis would go to Harlem and “borrow” the acts of the black comedians there. Ever take a Zumba class? THe movements all come from the dance of African slaves in Latin America and the Carribbean.
Europeans always play this double game. In India, with the First Nations people in the Amerias, the Chinese- they always express contempt for indiegenous cultures and then appropriate those cultures.
Black folks that you meet in the ‘Hood unconsciously, subconsciously have a loyalty to their own blackness, which is actually a heroic act of defiance in the face of being told that everything “not them” is right. Did you know the song SwingloLow, Sweet Chariot, was actually a code for a verbal map of the underground railroad? Much of “slavetalk” was code, a way to communicate amongst themselves so that “the slavemasters” could not understand them and thereby own them completely. You know black folks do not conjugate the verb “to be”? Some schonjugate the verb “to be.” I am proud that somehow, no matter how much white folks beat black folks upside the head for being themselves, these remnants of our beautiful, black African cultures exist. And to me, AAVE (African American Vernacular English) is very poetic, and can express feelings and states of mind that standard English cannot. Which is why I engage in “code switching.” Talking to stave off the contempt of misguided white dominant culture and switching into solidarity with other black people.
So much of Ebonics is a form of solidarity, loyalty and reverence for a culture that most people scorn. But do we have to hate it because white folks tell us to?
In the marketplace we would all get lot further if we would only get a clue and turn white. If we would just get some common sense and lighten our skin, straighten our noses, and bleach our hair, forget our language and any remnants of our slave influenced African cultures and be white. Because winning in this world, getting somewhere is the best thing you could do. Do you know that there is an Asian country that values happiness over gross domesic product? What I am saying is, your thinking Roz is the same market guided thoughtform that is getting the whole global economy in trouble. We, as Westerners, keep measuring our happiness by our stuff. Traditions, peace, simplicity, heritage and art are inconsequential if it keeps us from stuff. getting stuff, spending stuff. Maybe people want to love their own cultures over having white folks approve of them so they can get stuff. Or status. You mentioned that you come from high status. You know, other primates care about status. Apes and gorillas believe in status and honor the gorilla or ape with the most bananas and the biggest tree. But aren’t we more than our status? What about loyalty and love and compassion and respect for those without the acoutrements of status? What if that loud, ghetto girl has more authenticity, honesty, love and directness than you, status or not? How will you ever know? So concerned with your big tree, bananas and white approved mode of expression?
Yes, assimilation makes life easier, but does it make life better? The insistence in using Ebonics is deeper and more resonant than you would think.
But go ahead and internalize the self hatred that the dominant culture forces upon us. I bet if you and I were in a room, I would show you up in terms of being “articulate”. However, I still refuse to show contempt for my bruthas and sistas who maintain a loyalty to our inherited culture. I have a white husband, but I would never let him get away with expressing contempt for my bruthas and sistas in the ‘hood.
You suffer from OBGS Only Black Girl Syndrome. You don’t turn your powers of observation on the dominant culture. You only use it to distance yourself from the seemingly weak and powerless. You congratulate yourself on how you can mimic to a tee what white folks dictate as being of value. In this way, you lack originality and insight. And it’s kind of sickening. The thought of you prancing around, preening in all your assimilated glory makes me a little nauseous. Love who you want, talk how you want, be what you want, but your sense of superiority is just nauseating and makes you actually seem inauthentic and frankly stupid. Shallow and egotistical. Self esteem is one thing, but quickly turns into arrogance when you think your petty conformities makes you better than someone else. In your position, of being involved with a white person, you could be a go between and a bridge between cultures. You could be helping to inspire compassion and respect on the part of the powerful for the less powerful (economically less powerful). Instead you stew in your own self congratulatory juices, relishing the thought of being above someone else. When you are not. Some people, no matter how they talk have more integrity and nobility than the most seemingly refined.
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@ Roz
“I’m really questioning your ability to remember what you said and your ability to read. I said and then you responded “You learn in grade school how to form a complete sentence therefore you should utilize what you learned.”—That assumes that all people learned English in grade school which not all did.”—I know what I said and frankly I read just fine. I don’t know what you have learned or assumed about things, but not all people learn English skills in school. There are people who can be present in class and still not have learned jack. They can be in an entire school system that just pass them because they are old enough…not because they know enough. Some people do not learn English or English skills until they take an independent class outside of the school system. I can go on with different situations of people. All who either have had the exposure and not get it. Now take my quote and read the whole thing and be amazed that I actually agreed with you in the end. My Filipino friend is a great example because she learned English in the Philippines. It was part of her school curriculum, but often times people mistake what she is saying in English as slang.
“Maybe I need to spoon feed you and place an IF before the you. Seeing how you can’t seem to reach that conclusion yourself. It’s common knowledge and you’re choosing to argue points that offer nothing to what I stated. You my dear could be in politics.”—The thing is most of the time I am actually quoting what you are stating. So frankly either you are forgetting what you are saying or you are confused on what it is you are actually saying? Again this goes back to your fine skills at back-peddling and causing mass confusion. If you could take 5 mins to actually read and understand atleast 2% of what I said you would know…A. I agreed with you on many points and b. I have already reached a conclusion. It is you who seems to want to prove something.
I never said any of these things don’t apply to other races. However, personally I don’t have any of these problems with any other races. “—Again this is a moment where you truly need to read and understand what I said. You listed behaviors that you concluded where and I quote “STEREOTYPICAL BLACK PERSON.” I asked the question what defines a stereotypical black person? Especially when these attributes can be seen in all races. You did not answer it. Nor did you answer how blacks invented these stereotypical behaviors that you also concluded that they did. The thing is how (and I am repeating this again as well) is it a stereotype of black people when all races do it?
Here is a question…What are you even mad about? You have insulted me several times thus far. I have been on this board for a while now and usually when people result to insults it is usually because they have lost the argument or debate. They need to discredit the other parties intelligence in order to feel that they have won. Yet the funny part is I was not aware we were actually debating anything. LOL
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@Sharina
I am curious as to what pull this post has for you. And for me, frankly. Well, for me, internet culture shows me the devastating ignorance that still exists in our country as a whole, and i think it might be worth it to try to dispel some of that ignorance. However, I know it is futile. The way percentages work, there will always be silly, status conscious dopes in the world who miss the forest for the trees. However, I am getting off this because it is futile. And I know I have better things to do with my intelligence than intake any more drivel from the immature and feckless Roz’s of the world.
However there are people and blogs that are more satisfying than this one. Try racialicious.com. You will meet a higher quality of commenters. This blog is designed to invite ignorance. Also, google bell hooks. She’s a social critic who is amazing and thoughtful. And I am putting down Roz, which is not very effective form of argument. she will only get defensive and not learn anything. HOwever, that is what ignorance and thoughtlessness does, invites attack and counterattack.
Go to racialicious. Really smart, educated people of color and others comment and blog on that website. Anyway, I hope this does not cause you any more pain. I am educated, articulated and all of that, and it does not matter. I meet people every day who have fantasies about their superiority. That will never end. But you can arm yourself by going on other blogs, reading other books and not indulge or immerse yourself in this pointless go -round of insult and counter insult.
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@ Roz
“Anyone of any higher social status is aware of how important it is to speak proper English and the fact that you shrug it off as if it’s nothing says a lot about you or at least the company you keep.”—At what point did I shrug it off or conclude that it was nothing or not important. What I said is that because a person does not speak it I am not going to judge them for it. Has little or nothing to do with what I choose to speak. As for the company I keep…most of my friends are doctors or business owners. My best friend is head of Hr department for Mercedes Benz. All of my friends have atleast 1 degree. All of them code switch. The majority are white.
And I am going to say thing again. Go back and read what I have said to you. You are repeating things that I actually already agreed with you on and trying to debate them. The Proper English and judging a person by there cover was in fact the only things I disagreed on and I stated clearly why. You could bring up fault in that but with all the explanation there is no need. You are looking for an argument and a debate that is not there.
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@Angela
Please please comment on open thread when you have your blog up. I am really interested in your take on things.
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And thank you Angela. For the suggestions.
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@Sharina
Just because a stereotype is said to fit a certain group doesn’t mean it can’t apply to someone else. You’re making it seem like I invented these stereotypes when I didn’t. They exists because enough people in a particular group fit the profile. They say:
White kids don’t listen to their parents.
Asian kids have strict parents.
Mexicans are constantly having babies.
Those could apply to any race. There aren’t always accurately reflected but the stereotype is still there.
Typically when someone agrees, they don’t bring up different scenarios that doesn’t coincide with what was previously stated. If I say red is an awesome color, I don’t expect someone to say “it sure is but there’s nothing wrong with blue, green or yellow.”
I think people are really quick to jump on my case and think I assume things that I don’t simply because I dislike so many stereotypical things within the black community. But this doesn’t mean I’m unaware of it’s existence with other races.
When you say to people who aren’t black that you don’t like the stereotypical black person, there’s no explanation needed. They know exactly what you mean. But anytime it’s said to a black person they get defensive.
I look at it the same way I do when I work with children. If 8 year old Johnny threw his plate against the wall, I don’t want to hear Johnny say “Well, Max did it too.” My focus is on why Johnny did it at that moment. Not Max. And it’s important for Johnny to know that he needs to focus oh himself and not what someone else did. Because Max did it isn’t a good enough excuse. Johnny doesn’t want to be called out for something that someone else did but Johnny has to realize he needs to accept responsibility for his own actions.
Just because other races participate in a behavior doesn’t mean it excuses the behavior in the race I am speaking of. But it also doesn’t mean I condone the other behavior. It’s just not the topic at the moment.
I wasn’t mad about anything. I don’t like repeating myself and I don’t like people assuming I said something when I didn’t. Has nothing to do with feeling like I lost an argument.
When i say to my bf. “They told me 12-6 or 12-7 but I said I prefer 12-6.” And he comes to me later saying “So if they have you working until 7 how are you going to do ABC.” Clearly he wasn’t listening and it’s annoying to have to repeat myself. But even after clarifying 7 is still assumed.
Pretty much what you were doing in my eyes. I’d say one thing and you’d assume I meant something that I didn’t instead of just taking it for what was said.
@Angela
Lol. Says the one who asked how do you stop receiving updates, when it took me less than second to see that you just need to click “subscription options” Now, I didn’t assume you were unintelligent because you couldn’t seem to find a link that was pretty obvious but it’s nice to see you’ve chosen that route.
But believe me I am not offended.
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idk i think abagond is a pretty smart dude from my perspective it was a real etheral like abstracted romp through orientalism and marion barry like i had a real understanding of my own psychology and please i have to talk about my schiz like people talking me down man anyone that has street survival not what dave says stret cred eg a convicted felon like martha stuart (any of us will tell you it is not a badge of honor) in the hood like the dudes are like that too as if i care about how you feel else i could not function at a high level know what i mean ie mh context
and i listen to what people have to say and man if it dont apply let it fly yo
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so that there comment if it dont get pulled will also obviate the exclusion of the black girl that likes white guys who dont act black but so mote it be
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i hang around and talk with black dudes too for a while it was just black chicks in reading but not now
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its talking ghetto and *whee* throw in a $7 word it’s fun
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it’s better if the girl is black+ and has dated a few white dudes before i guess is the white guy version of the hair talk
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@ Roz
“Just because a stereotype is said to fit a certain group doesn’t mean it can’t apply to someone else. You’re making it seem like I invented these stereotypes when I didn’t. They exists because enough people in a particular group fit the profile. They say:”—This is what I mean by you just not reading what I am saying to you. You actually are assuming what you believe I mean by something and taking it and running with it. I have stated several times that their are women that this apply to but I have also stated several times that I don’t judge. Let me quote you from one comment I made: Sharina
This does not mean that I don’t think that some have screwed up priorities (this I learned after talking with them), but who am I to judge.
So where are you getting this idea that I am telling you that you invented these stereotypes? I even gave an example where it did apply. I know and have acknowledge that they exist, but it does not account for many or the majority. This is yet another example of you trying to search for something to argue or debate about.
The rest of your post I consider rambling because you are repeating again what has already been said. I am not a yes man. I agree with people, but I add my own take on it as well. I have thoughts and opinions and I like to share them as I would assume any self respecting adult would. I have already made it clear as day the things I disagree with you on and I won’t repeat them. Secondly I don’t like blanket comments. It does not matter who you are talking about so when a person makes a blanket comment I always make a comment to them.
“Just because other races participate in a behavior doesn’t mean it excuses the behavior in the race I am speaking of. But it also doesn’t mean I condone the other behavior. It’s just not the topic at the moment. “—Who said it is a behavior that I or anyone is trying to excuse. What I did was simply say that other races do it so how or why is it considered the stereotypical “black” behavior? Can’t really be considered that if other races do it now can it?
“I wasn’t mad about anything. I don’t like repeating myself and I don’t like people assuming I said something when I didn’t. Has nothing to do with feeling like I lost an argument. “— first of all If you truly don’t like repeating yourself then you could have stopped doing it because I did not ask you to. You were frankly repeating yourself for your own benefit. I said what I had said and It was done, but you are rehashing it. You are picking out bits and piece you feel are debate worthy. Secondly if you are not mad then you would not need to personally attack someone. You are not mad. It would be pointless to attack someone for no reason right?. I debate a lot and of all the people I debated those that are about to lose always use ad hominem attacks, similar to the one you used, to try and discredit me to win the argument. You can type in one thing but I am a strong believer in actions speak louder than words.
“Pretty much what you were doing in my eyes. I’d say one thing and you’d assume I meant something that I didn’t instead of just taking it for what was said. “—If you would go back and read my post you would see I asked you several questions. I always ask questions as a means to determine the mindset of an individual and gain an understanding. I also do this to avoid assuming people are racist on this blog. I can’t assume something when I am asking you a question and quoting your responses to them….. if you respond to them. I don’t typically assume anything about anyone.
Like I said before. You really are just looking for something to argue about and frankly you really have nothing….NEXT
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@Sharina
I won’t even bother to read the entire thing because I wasn’t looking to argue. It just seemed to me that you were misunderstanding me. But whatever I’m pretty over the conversation and I’m done explaining.
I’m not a person who lies. I’m actually a brutally honest person. It’s the one thing that gets me in trouble because everyone expects you to sugar coat things and I don’t believe in softening blows. If I say I wasn’t angry and trying to discredit you then that’s what I meant. I don’t care how many people have done it, it doesn’t mean that everyone is the same. Surprised from the person who doesn’t judge.
But in any case I enjoyed your originality there at the end. Bravo. You sure told me off.
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Heya i am for the primary time here. I came across this board and I in finding It
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@ Roz
I don’t know whether to simply laugh at your attempt to “play it off” or just pity you. You have turned an open ended learning experience into something negative because you have some chip on your shoulder. Did you think people would come in and say hail Roz and her great experience? Did you think your experience held more weight compared to others? You are still very ignorant in certain areas of life and could use a bit of learning, but instead you looking at it like that you just get angry that someone, who has experienced more, knows more than you. Now you can once again come back and explain away your behaviors with excuse after excuse. But in the words of Gabriel Meurier….He who excuses himself accuses himself.
“Surprised from the person who doesn’t judge.”—I didn’t judge you. I see what you are doing and I have clarified what you are doing, but I am not bringing down judgement for you doing it. As I have stated to you for the umpteenth, If it helps you sleep at night then keep doing it.
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Hey there fantastic blog! Does running a blog such as
this require a massive amount work? I’ve absolutely no expertise in coding however I was hoping to start my own blog soon. Anyhow, if you have any ideas or tips for new blog owners please share. I know this is off topic nevertheless I simply wanted to ask. Kudos!
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After scrolling though a page of 90 percent ignorance, I will say this. I’m black and I wouldn’t chase any man. I’m polite and I don’t think any race is or anyone is better than me. Flaws can be found with all. I notice there are a lot of white men and asian women that troll this page. It’s sad how you people try to bring black women down and we still stand tall and rise.
Stop watching tv and learn to think for yourselves. Stop letting society dictates stereotype. What of I believed the stereotype that all whites were racist, power-hungry, dominant, and wicked people? I’d be just as ignorant. You people need to get off the Internet and live in the real world with a different set of unbiased eys.
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The subject of black women and white men needs to die and be buried. Black women should not date or marry white men. I believe (because of my own experience) that white men don’t view black women in a positive way. It has more to do with sex, and sex only. A white man does not see a black women as someone to love and treat her the same as he would a white woman. He is too concerned about what his family and friends think of him. Therefore it is rude and disrespectful to be with someone that he is obviously ashamed of. That being the case, don’t even bother to waste a black woman’s time to begin with. Let us be and go on with your life and let us do the same. Life is too short for this nonsense. It is better to be alone than to be with someone who is afraid of what other people think.
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@Peggy
Your post sums up the reason why I don’t date White men. Most of them want to sleep with us if they find us attractive enough. They don’t want to start a serious relationship with Black women…majority of them. Most of them see us as oversexed Jezebels with different baby daddies. Very few of them want a serous relationship with a woman who happens to be Black. And to save myself the trouble and stigma, I decided to avoid White men in my romantic pursues of men for the rest of my young life. I am only 18 so I know that I have my whole life ahead of me.
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hi matt , my name is susan. I just came across this blog that i’ve found interesting. I understand you live in Britain. And that you would like to meet adecent black girl for a relationship. I would like to meet you for a chat. I live in Britain and i am a nice looking black girl.
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One factor I never hear mentioned as to why white people are reluctant to get into relationships with Black people is that, in doing so, they may well be finding themselves shunned by their own, only to be entering a culture that does not adequately support their presence. I am perceived as white, though my ethnic background is in fact, existentially, anything but (we’re a genocided minority that exists only in Diaspora per recent US military intervention following centuries of exploitation) and Black Americans are the people here most familiar to me. I love them to death and crossed that color line 40 years ago and would not be moved. It was more like I was crossing back to where I belonged. I can’t say that I have been adequately supported. Truth is, I recognized people who don’t recognize me. I would very much like it to be better, but there is so much that would have to change, it’s best I don’t hold my breath.
It does annoy me when Black people complain about what racist assholes white people are in not crossing that line, or that they’re stupid sheep who can’t think for themselves, etc., etc. There’s just so little consideration of the consequences of that association, no respect for it. A huge blind spot, at least for that tiny group of us who need and deserve it.
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Everything is very open with a precise clarification of the issues.
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Check out some of the commentary by professor M. Belinda Tucker regarding Ralph Richard Banks controversial book, Is Marriage for White People. She critique Mr. Banks assertion that Black women should date/marry outside of the race without talking about history, stereotypes/myths, and racism toward Black women by non Black people.
Here’s her take as well as anecdotal evidence on interracial relationships between Black women and White men. She spoke the about things that we as Black women thought for the last 60 years. Here’s the excerpt from the Interracial Marriage Symposium of 2011 by Council of Contemporary Families:
“Belinda Tucker (UCLA) agrees Black women are way of white men, but ties this to a history of white men’s attitudes towards them
“Our data from 21 large U.S. cities in 1996 showed that while nearly 90 percent of Black men would marry someone of another race, 71 percent of Black women also supported interracial marriage. When it came down to specifics, though, a differential reluctance emerged: only 57 percent of black women would marry someone who was white.*
“This reluctance to marry white men comes from a deep knowledge of this society’s historical and current views about Black women, especially in regard to those elements of self that are most vulnerable in romantic encounters-physical features and sexuality. Societal physical standards essentially the opposite of those possessed by most African American women are made abundantly clear in the skin color,hair texture, hip size, etc. glamorized in television programs, ads, and magazines. Media portrayals of Black women as either hyper sexualized or Big Mamas continue to encourage exploitative attitudes. When I was in high school in the 1960s, one of my white male classmates casually quoted his father’s assertion: ‘you cannot be a man until you split a black oak.’ That quote has Belinda Tucker (UCLA) agrees Black women are way of white men, but ties this to a history of white men’s attitudes towards them.
“Our data from 21 large U.S. cities in 1996 showed that while nearly 90 percent of Black men would marry someone of another race, 71 percent of Black women also supported interracial marriage. When it came down to specifics, though, a differential reluctance emerged: only 57 percent of black women would marry someone who was white.*
This reluctance to marry white men comes from a deep knowledge of this society’s historical and current views about Black women, especially in regard to those elements of self that are most vulnerable in romantic encounters-physical features and sexuality. Societal physical standards essentially the opposite of those possessed by most African American women are made abundantly clear in the skin color,hair texture, hip size, etc. glamorized in television programs, ads, and magazines. Media portrayals of Black women as either hypersexualized or Big Mommas continue to encourage exploitative attitudes. When I was in high school in the 1960s, one of my white male classmates casually quoted his father’s assertion: ‘you cannot be a man until you split a black oak.’ That quote has remained embedded in my consciousness, and I’m certain it has affected my assessments of the motivations of white men who pursue African American women.
‘Though Professor Banks may believe the continued loyalty expressed by African American women for African American men is misplaced, the enduring embrace of African American men establishes a boundary that is, at the very least, safe from societal rejections of Black womanhood (i.e., where standards of attractiveness and status are at least partially community defined). For, despite the near universal acceptance among Black men of interracial marriage, most married African American men have Black wives.’”
Why are some Americans are so eager to encourage Black women to widen out without counting the costs of doing so? Without talking about the painful history of interracial relationships in America?
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i hope she catch quick she say ‘high yellow’ i dont think i’m supposed to say that i think light skinned it is
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I like to get white man to marry my because ilike them white me and i did get any pne am here want husband from America please help
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Me i wantone of American marry me who his there am serious my name’s
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