Note: This is very much a work in progress. There are some posts I will have to write to make this one work well. I will fill them in over time. Suggestions are welcomed.
My standard advice for White Americans:
- Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen to what people of colour (non-whites) say. Do not put your guard up. Instead put yourself in their shoes. Take what they say seriously, especially about their own experiences. Assume that what they say is pretty much true, particularly if you keep hearing the same thing over and over again. Do not judge, not at this stage. Like in science, gathering as many facts as possible comes first. Making sense of them comes later, much later. If you approach this with a closed mind you will only hear what you want to hear.
- Do not defend white people. Not even in your mind. At least not when talking to people of colour. White people are very good at defending themselves – they do not need your help. You will find yourself doing it without even trying. What most whites are bad at, where they need your help, is listening to people of colour and understanding where they are coming from.
- Understand your cultural conditioning. The better you understand it the less it will affect you (warning: some of these posts might seem angry):
- Seek out voices of colour. Books and people and stuff on the Internet are by far the best. Film and television are the worst – they are too heavily controlled by whites and pretty much just push stereotypes. Magazines and newspapers are not much better. See below for some book recommendations.
- Screw white guilt. It does not help anyone. Anger is way better.
- Call out racism. Question and challenge racist acts and beliefs when you see or hear them. In your mind at least. Better yet, out loud.
- Talk to your white friends about racism. It will sound ten times more believable coming from you than from any person of colour.
Maybe that does not seem like much, but it is a huge step in the right direction, more than what most white people seem to be doing.
Books:
Read books by people of colour, whatever interests you. If you cannot think of any books, here are some:
Danzy Senna: “Caucasia” (1998) – a novel about a girl in America who can pass for black or white. More.
Eduardo Bonilla-Silva: “Racism Without Racists” (2009) – the sociological facts about current American racism.
Frank Wu: “Yellow” (2003) – racism against Asian Americans. Excellent.
Beverly Tatum: “Why Are All the Black Kids Sitting Together in the Cafeteria” (2003) – how racism affects Americans growing up. More.
Malcolm X & Alex Haley: “The Autobiography of Malcolm X” (1965) – every American should read this.
The books banned by the Tucson school board are, of course, also an excellent place to start.
– Abagond, 2013.
See also:
- My advice to the Whitewashed
- calling out racism
- growing up white
- prejudice
- Not a cure for racism:
- How to help end racism – damali ayo’s advice, which is not wildly different
Excellent post! But me thinks this will get redirected right back to the paternalistic “But–but what about what YOU PEOPLE need to do?? Slavery is over!! GET OVER IT!” If only we could get some “true accounts” of white ppl checkin’ their families, their spouses on some of the racist thinking and open verbalized beliefs…I would love to hear those…
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[…] Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen to what people of colour (non-whites) say. Do not put your guard up. Instead put yourself in their shoes. Take what they say seriously, especially about their own experiences….. […]
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@ Sugarkiss
EXACTLY!
Other suggestions- turn off FOX news, its not fair/balanced reporting. Go to events that you will be the “minority” and take in the atmosphere.
*Valiant effort Abagond, but it falls on deaf ears of “White” folk.*
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Thank you. Again.
In all the books that people have mentioned before, I don’t think I’ve ever heard those mentioned. The usually mention bell hooks or Audre Lorde (I hope I got those names right. And I think there might be one more author.) I just wish I enjoyed reading. Everything I’ve learned about racism has been through posts like this and some very generous Black women on LiveJournal.(Karnythia being key.) And white people who got there before I did.
But really, thank you for this whole post. I’ve known about you for about a year, I think. But it was only recently that I started getting notifs when a new post would go up. And I learn almost or just as much in the comments. You’ve got some smart people reading you.
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Listening and acknowledgment are excellent all-around pieces of advice, but the current political climate appears to create significant barriers to genuine understanding.
The triumph of political correctness, particularly in academia and the media, fosters both white guilt and white indifference.
Those susceptible to the former uncritically and unconditionally accept this particular narrative while those in the latter group sense a propaganda job and tunes out.
The underlying cause of both is “dogma”, a set of received beliefs which one may not, in polite company, challenge without paying a social and/or economic price.
Unless a genuine and open debate on race is widely sought and encouraged, I believe that rapprochement will remain a distant goal.
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Lifelearner,
Yeah…they like their current place in history too much. I really do think that they realize the void that awaits them should they “give in” and actually apply real intent and purpose to helping right humanity. They have been holding up this house of cards with no other energy towards anything culturally meaningful.
Things that the world has benefited from scientifically were only secondary to them helping themselves, imo. This is why they have roamed so far away from herbal medicine, green energy–anything natural really (including “cosmetic” surgery!) If they cannot advance financial and material gain, they are not interested..even if it leads them (and us) over a cliff.
How can you lack such a moral compass as a people when you don’t have any other rationalization or cultural pride other than being white? You treat the very ppl trying to educate you like fleas!
They are ‘the white race’ only when they are defending Western attempts at colonialism and then they are ‘completely unrelated individuals’ when they are defending themselves…
To actively do 2-5, they would need to start in a mirror most likely.
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Minorities are racist too. In fact some minority cultures in canada have attitude and walk around like they own the place and they just landed here. Alot of them are showoffs and liars and are very status oriented. The whites in canada are v ery different than american whites- its not the whites in america with attitude like you state- ALL RACES IN AMERICA HAVE ATTITUDE DUE TO THEY THINK THEY ARE SUPERIOR BECAUSE THEY ARE AMERICAN AND KNOW NOTHING OUTSIDE OF AMERICA………its not whites it america itself. Americans are very pushy and aggressive people whereas canadians are not like this.
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Excellent advice. I followed it (them) instinctively in the last (many !) years. I started when I realized Egypt WAS actually in Africa.
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Love. ❤
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Thank you for Caucasia and Yellow. I have already read the other ones and have about 50 to read after reading about as many… after observing and thinking a lot.
I would advise those who see themselves as “white” and those who don’t to read this, which will give them further references for readings:
The Idea of Race Bernasconi /Lott
They can start here and then buy the book:
http://books.google.com/books/about/The_idea_of_race.html?id=di2YVLKgIC8C
It is really interesting as it gives a thorough historical overview of how “race” was invented and applied, by all kinds of people.
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@Abagond
Why white people defend themselves? Because other color loves so much attack them! This in an daily basis!
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Thank you for all your advice and guidance. Please keep writing as much as you can so I can learn as much as I can about the reasons behind racism and how I can help eliminate it. Thank you for all you do to help me understand what the reality is for people of colour.
Sincerely,
A white woman
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Excellent post. The only suggestion is that you add confirmation bias to your list of items to eschew. In the meantime, I’m sharing this with a ton of people.
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This made me laugh. So ridiculous.
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solesearch, it is interesting to notice that these people describe their own ancestors without even being aware of it. Racism is so stupid that it really does make them sound that way…
I have always thought that their obsession with “aliens” (the green type) stems from this conscious/unconscious knowledge of what their (my/our) ancestors have done, and refusal to recognize it.
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I understand what abagond is trying to say but i respectfully disagree with us, always needing to convince white people of their, racism.
It assumes that they are unaware of racism against blacks and other minorities.
White people know racism exists, because they are the ones that apply it and uphold it!
The same whites that deny blacks jobs, deny blacks justice in a court of law, deny blacks bank loans for businesses or a house, are the same people that claim racist doesn’t exist.
white people will only listen to Tim Wise or Robert Jensen, not an actual black person, racism effects.
This tells me, they are not interested in talking to black people about racism, much less among themselves.
I hold the believe that, we as black and other minorities, need to educate ourselves on how to be financially, independent of white people. We do this through owning our own businesses, so we can funnel our own money into our communities.
We also need to educate our black children on how to navigate through this white supremacist society.
We have spent our entire existence in America, trying to convince white people they are racist, we haven’t gotten anywhere near equal.
I think its time we change strategy and stop trying to convince and focus on ourselves, instead of the enemy.
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Excellent post and the picture is too perfect. It completely sums up the deluded thought process that life in America began with European invasion.
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rofl these trolls can’t even form a complete sentence that makes sense.
What I can add to this advice is
1. stop watching fox news
2. stop telling ppl to be color blind
3. stop trying to tell us how to feel and think
4. stop trying to make us believe ur lies nobody believes them but u
5. stop making everything into a left wing vs right wing debate
6. stop trying to excuse or rationalize racist behavior from other whites
7. stop derailing posts
8. stop trying to compare ur struggles to ours[ur problems with tanning,botox,aging is not equal to our struggles of racism,colorism and stereotypes]
9. stop reading this and put things into action
…………
10. why are u still reading this go read one of the books suggested and take other ppls suggestions seriously.
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Sondis,
can we disagree ?
“White” people are just as manipulated as others in the context of racism. If not more, because it is very easy to manipulate people when the manipulation leads to apparent (material/social) benefit/privilege (but serious psychological damage).
In a society, a person who is born with a privilege (royalty, wealth, status, whatever) will not *easily* renounce it.
I imagine this is easy to understand.
It is not easy to understand that to keep this supposed “achievement” (racists view it like that because it prevents them from being honest with themselves) you have to walk all over others, destroy them and oppress them. But that’s what they do because most of them have been persuaded that they were doing the right thing. They may know or not know it’s wrong. Few try to reverse things, but they do. I am one of them.
I have never thought it was okay to oppress others in the name of “our” supposed “superiority”. I have always expressed my refusal of it. Ever since I became aware of it when I was a teenager. Probably because I had had childhood experiences that contradicted the racist(s) discourse.
I think African-Americans are already self-focused, which has lead to a leading position in the fight against institutionalized racism and its effects in administration and corporations.
Of course your ancestors and parents have gotten somewhere ! It is a history that is known all over the world and has had an impact everywhere. But it is not over because racism is not over.
“White” people are rendered idiotic by “whiteness”. Cruel too. That’s why Abagond’s and others’ attempts are necessary. Nobody forces anyone to do it, and I can understand that you would be tired, because I am too (and these people are my family members, colleagues and “friends” -actually they are not when they are racists, I just can’t stand their company-). But I will never give up.
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mstoogood4yall
lol !
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Aba
Your attempts will fall on deaf ears. Whites are too far gone to even comprehend how dire this situation really is…FOR THEM. Even Hitler believed he was doing the right thing.
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Wow thanks abagond.that is really good advice. Much appreciated. I will use this.
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@lifelearner I definitely agree with your second point, that white people should go to places where we will be the minority. Until I was in college, I had never had the experience of being the only white person in the room. Then, my black friend and I became roommates. We would often walk across campus to the apartment of some mutual friends who had lived near us the year before. Two of our friends who lived there were black. One day, I was sitting in their living room watching TV with them. One of the girls made a sarcastic comment about a commercial that played to racial stereotypes. It suddenly occured to me that I was the only white person in the apartment at the moment. It was a strange feeling, and the realization made me a little bit uncomfortable, even though I really liked those three girls and two of them were my good friends! Then I realized that there had probably been many times in their lives when they had been the only black person in the room. Being white had allowed me to live for two decades without feeling that strange racial discomfort that they probably felt every day. It was an eye-opening experience for me.
Also, thank you for this great post, Abagond.
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Oh, and I love that cartoon!
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LOL @ Legion
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@ Jane of Canada
#2. And Broken Record #4.
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@ Randy
And just what would these dogmas be?
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@ Cornlia
Thanks for the book recommendation!
@ Ms Good
Thanks for the suggestions!
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My pleasure. I know you’ll “enjoy” it.
I would also recommend to anyone interested in the critique of “Enlightment Universalism” to read translations of books by Louis Sala-Molins.
He is an uncompromising French researcher on the topic. His most famous book was a criticism of the French Black Code in “Le Code Noir ou le Calvaire de Canaan”.
Here is another one that has been translated:
Dark Side of the Light, Slavery and the French Enlightenment (huh, just noticed I was misspelling it), by Louis Sala Molins.
I found a used one on Amazon which I am sending to a friend whose work I’m going to publicize a little here (some may know him from FB):
The Black History 101 Mobile Museum. (You can search it on FB)
http://www.blackhistory101mobilemuseum.com/
The founder, Khalid, is one of the nicest persons I have met. He is a friend of Prof Griff, for those who are familiar. The latter often travels with the Museum and gives lectures in it. I tried to get the museum invited to my university last semester (I was a non-degree student there) but the Africana Department was apparently not interested… I saw the Mobile Museum at Union College, Schenectady, NY instead. Check the next tour on their site or ask Khalid, it may come around. The focus is on slavery and Jim Crow artefacts (which EVERY other “white” person in this country and mine should SEE at least once in their life…), as well as the Black Muslims.
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I bought another one recently but haven’t read it yet on the same topic:
Race and the Enlightment by Emmanuel Chukwudi Eze.
Has anyone read it ?
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@ Sondis
Did you notice how quickly the Pale Ones disagreed with your, a black man’s, assessment of racism? It’s as if you, a black man, have NO idea what racism is or how it is covertly perpetuated.
I find it funny how when we, The Originals, show clear cut examples of racism, the Pale Ones, who are the cause of it, quickly defend the very thing they claim to be fighting against.
Cognitive Dissonance must be sweet.
By the way, why are they here?
Why not go to their OWN PEOPLE and educate them on their demonism? Why are they always in our faces?
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I love this blog! Especially posts like these. Why? Because, without fail, every single time, within 10 or fewer comments, some commenter will perfectly illustrate the tenet of Abagond’s post while supposedly trying to refute it. And they do it without the least hint of irony or sarcasm. It’s amazing.
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@ abagond
White people know more about black people and how racism affects blacks and non-whites and they are NOT ignorant about racism
Blacks and non-whites are the ones who are IGNORANT about racism. This is evident by our belief that we can “talk” or “shame” white people into changing what they do.
How well has that worked?
What could we possibly say to white people AS non-white people that hasn’t been said?
From North America, to Canada, to Latin America, to Iraq to Africa to Australia to New Zealand to every non-white nation on the globe
What could we possibly say that hasn’t been said already?
I think it is our (false) EGOS that have convinced us that we are somehow “smarter” and less ignorant than the (white) people who are dominating us
(how is that possible if we are being dominated?)
AND our deep-seated desire to stay connected to them by any means possible and “talking” about racism with white people who know a ton more about it than most of us (black and non-white people) do
is a form of RACIAL MASTURBATION white pretending to solve a problem we clearly do not understand (sorry to be so blunt but time is running out to fix this problem)
Much like a CHILD begs for the attention of an ABUSIVE PARENT
How can a small (white) minority of people on the planet (less than 9 percent) manage to DOMINATE most of the other 91% by being “ignorant?”
How can racism be practiced THE SAME WAY all over the planet if white people were “ignorant?” (a white code of conduct)
It is time to stop talking to white people and start talking to the man and woman in the mirror and repeat one hundred times until we pass out — literally.
INSANITY IS DOING THE SAME THING AND EXPECTING DIFFERENT RESULTS
it is NOT white people that need to change. They won’t. Haven’t we figured that out by now? This is as GOOD AS IT GETS.
It is the THINKING (or lack of) done by non-white people that MUST CHANGE if we are going to solve this problem (racism/white supremacy)
There is a WHITE CODE OF CONDUCT that is followed by white people COLLECTIVELY no matter where you go on the planet, one that is more than just learned behavior but appears to be INSTINCTIVE behavior.
Even white people have done studies that show that white babies may show a dislike for non-white people AND during a 20-20 experiment, they found that white children as young as four and five years old choose the “black-sounding” names as “bad kids” and the “white-sounding names” as “nice and smart” kids
Now only one thing is possible. Either white parents are teaching racism to a four year old (i doubt it) OR there is a WHITE CONDUCT CODE that is practiced so instinctively that a four year old can pick up on it.
Racism is not “disliking someone different” it is a SYSTEM, A CONDUCT CODE, A WAY OF LIFE (AND SURVIVAL) AND A RELIGION that is practiced in all areas of human activity.
And if you doubt what I’m saying is true, ask the next white person you meet this question:
What do white people say about black people when there are no white people in the room?
If all you get is SILENCE, you’ll have your answer.
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@ diaryofanegress:
Yes, i did notice it…hence the reason why i mentioned, Tim Wise and Robert Jensen.
White people will only turn to other white people, to listen to our cries of injustice.
Then and only then, they feel guilt and sympathy but let a black man or woman say the same things, Time Wise says ( Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson ) they’re racist!
@ Cornlia:
You said:
“I think African-Americans are already self-focused, which has lead to a leading position in the fight against institutionalized racism and its effects in administration and corporations.”
Black people are not self-focused as we were in the civil rights movement, the damage of white supremacy and institutionalized racism has taken its toll on black people in America.
We have a broken spirit and black people are mentally unstable as a result of being treated with such hostility and violence.
White people give themselves, so many mental disorders, whenever one of them goes nuts and kills a movie theater of people or school of kids.
They give no such diagnosis for black people that crack under the pressures of being black in this country. We are always seen as being naturally violent or crazy when we loose it, No kind of disorder.
What pressures do white people have, compared to black people or other people of color?, Yet they get all the medical diagnosis, then get sent to a cosy mental hospital.
Mentally ill black people that commit crimes, are sent to a prison, instead of getting help for their, mental condition.
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Correction:
What do white people say about black people when there are no BLACK people in the room?
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@ TrojanPam: I’ve said the very same thing in this post and in other posts on this blog.
The white race has done a beautiful job of brainwashing black people into thinking, white people are not the enemy, YOU ARE YOUR WORST ENEMY!, not us.
It worked….we need to focus on us, not white people, they will never change.
Well, maybe some will and do change but not to the point, where they will give up their whiteness totally and not enough of them will even change to the degree, where it will make a difference to black people and other people of color.
What good is it, if less than 1% of white people in America, are liberal progressives, if 99% of white people are conservative racists?
Yeah, a token white person, that has a bleeding heart for, “those poor unfortunate souls” ( and yes, i got that line from the cartoon “The little Mermaid” so what!) , that’s suppose to change black people’s plight in America? pfft! I think not…
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Also,
read some of the comments on this post and ask yourself (as a black or non-white person)
could you have a rational conversation about racism with a person who is PRETENDING that they and (most) white people are still not practicing it
when they KNOW it is not true?
White people know what other white people do to non-white people
white people know what other white people SAY about non-white people
white people sit on juries that regularly convict black/non-white defendants with little or no evidence
white people work in banks and loan companies that regularly rip off black/non-white clients by giving them higher interest rates than whites with the same credit rating
white people work in rental and real estate offices where blacks are “steered” away from available rentals and homes
white people work as real estate and insurance appraisers that regularly cheat black/non-white customers out of a fair appraisal and/or insurance payouts
white people work in corporate america where blacks/non-whites are regularly denied employment, promotions or fair treatment
and white people know that white policemen regularly racially profile and harassment and arrest and murder blacks/non-whites and MOST seem to have no problem with that
I could go on but there is no need to do so
white people KNOW that they benefit from “white privilege” and that black and non-white people are mistreated because they are not white AND yet will come on blogs like this (and mine) and swear up and down that it’s not true
even while they lay in our beds and have children with us
they are merely following the WHITE CONDUCT CODE aka DON’T SNITCH ON OTHER WHITE PEOPLE
so what is it we need to talk about when it comes to racism?
I truly do not understand
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I forgot to add one more thing..
This is the reason why i don’t believe in talking to white people about racism, its a waste of our time and energy that could be used best, to uplift our young brothas and sistas that are lost and have been brained washed by this white supremacist society.
Yeah, a very small minority of white people have their hearts in the right place but its not enough of them and they aren’t doing nearly enough to bring shame and guilt, ( notice how i didn’t say, “awareness” being they already know about white racism )
Its been guilt and shame all along! that’s the only thing that gets white people, uncomfortable! We are not telling them anything, they don’t already know.
We have no choice but to move ahead without white people, if we are waiting for them to say and do something, we will be waiting until our star dies ( the sun ) in 5 billion years. well….we’ll be long gone from the planet well before our sun actually begins to die but…anywho…. -_-
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@ sondis
I agree. No one VOLUNTARILY gives up their power and privileges.
Yet we (blacks and non-whites) think we can “convince” or “shame” someone into doing it?
That’s like going to a criminal mob, bleeding and broken, and saying you want to talk to them about why they robbed you and beat you up, trying to make them feel ashamed.
If they were NOT criminal in nature, they wouldn’t have beat you up and robbed you (!)
Go to them and say you want to “have a conversation” to convince them that they should change something that mob has been doing for over 400 years and they would look at you like you were a fool
because they would think (rightfully so) that their reasons were OBVIOUS
because they WANTED TO do it
and THEY BENEFITED from their crimes.
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TrojanPam:
Gemme a ^5, we laid down the knowledge on this post my sista!
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@ Sondis @ TrojanPam
1. This is my advice for white people, not for black people. I get asked this question quite a bit, twice last week, so I did a post on it.
2. I am not holding my breath. I know it will mostly fall on deaf ears. But I also know some will hear it, even if it is just a handful. Something is better than nothing. If this post helps any white person become less racist then it was worth writing.
3. I agree about ignorance, but I do not know what else to say in this case.
4. I agree it is foolish for blacks to expect whites to change for the better in the near term (before the 2060s).
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@ qweerdo
Karnythia is awesome, a treasure. Bell hooks is good too, but I think she would make most people’s eyes glaze over. The same for Audre Lorde.
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@ abagond
deep down even I wish there was something I could do or say that would allow whites and blacks and non-whites to live in peace on this planet
If you think this post might help even one person correct their behavior
then it is worth writing
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@ sondis
i feel no joy writing what I posted although I believe it is true
and still feel like a child trying to communicate with an abusive parent
knowing it’s a hopeless situation
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Excellent post Abagond.
Sadly, some whites, like jane and Andros flamestrike up there, will not understand one bit.
I agree that no one will willingly give up their power and privilege. I hate to say this, but it looks like there is no other option. POC may have to end up taking power and privilege if they won’t give it up, especially if we do so in civil way.
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@ TrojanPam:
“i feel no joy writing what I posted although I believe it is true”
You feel no joy. 😦
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First this is a good post. Secondly in my opinion no matter how Abagond and others try to enlighten racist whites it is just like throwing pearls to swine. Jane from Canada is a prime example of this. Her mind is too closed and she lacks the ability to do self reflection and introspection to even see if she is guilty of these offences.
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Another thing for whites don’t come to black people insulting them and their intelligence telling them what they should be doing when they don’t want to correct their misdeeds.
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*Tries to get Mary Burrell’s attention….whistle. *waves hello…
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@ Sondis, Hey my brother. How are you? You were seriously dropping some excellent commentary.
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@ Mary:
Thanks sista, i try to pass the knowledge to my black and brown, people. ^_^
You know these racist, fools don’t have any damn sense… lol
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@TrojanPam
Are you having fun sipping on that White Kool-Aid?
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Honestly this is my advice to White people:
1) Leave us the hell alone and stop obsessing over us.
I am sick of this. I don’t give a damn about you Whites only about the plight of my people.
2)Stop imposing your beauty standards on us.
Pale skin, blond hair and blue eyes will never be my standard of beauty because I love my dark skin and brown eyes. I don’t understand the obsession White AmeriKKKlan has with blond hair and blue eyes. I couldn’t ever find that ”beautiful”. I prefer people with color to their skin, brown eyes and dark hair.
3) Stop stereotyping us and making assumptions about us.
We are people too just different skin color and hair and eye color. We are not all ghetto, loud or uneducated.
4) Stop assuming all Black men prefer or want a White woman over a Black woman.
I am a Black female and I see a lot of Black men dating outside of their race however most Black men prefer and marry Black women over White women. Sure the rate of Black men dating out is high but many of them still love their Black women.
5) Seriously leave us alone and stop coming on our blogs and websites!
I am so sick of them coming on our blogs and websites, trying to make fun of us or demean us.
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@TrojanPam In all honesty, I have spent most of my life hanging around with white people and we hardly ever even talk about race or people of other races (probably in large part because my hometown is almost 100% white). Actually, if I (a white girl) start talking about a racial issue, it mostly seems to cause other whites discomfort. They act like they are afraid to say anything. The only time when I remember a white person born after 1940 saying something blatantly racist was when a white girl told me that I might not want to room with a black girl, because even though we liked each other, it might cause a “culture clash.” Huh?? The black friend in question said, “Is that like when you wear plaid with stripes?” ROFL. Maybe this is stereotyping, but at least in my experience, black girls are way better at dark humor/flippancy/sarcasm than most white girls I have met. Ha ha, maybe I just figured out why I have black friends! LOL.
On a more serious note, I think the unspoken, undiscussed racism in white society is way more insidious and dangerous than the occasional ditzy comment that the less-educated members of the white “race” may let slip behind your (black people’s) backs.
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@ sondis
What is sad — for me — is knowing the DEPTHS of our Victimization under the system of racism/white supremacy and the DAMAGE it has produced worldwide
It does make me sad to realize how many people have suffered, are suffering and will suffer as long as this is the most dominate system on the planet.
I didn’t mean it makes me sad if I hurt anyone’s feelings by telling the truth
I could care LESS about that
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@ ladyinredboots
If you’re going to make a comment about me “sipping on white Koolaid” you should be able to explain it
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@ TrojanPam:
I understand what you’re saying…
Was ladyinredboots, trying to call you out? @ : o O ) >
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@ Sondis and TrojanPam,
It seems like it was trying to be a cheap shot, but still rather confusing in it’s intent.
I give
F-
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abagond:
Roughly speaking, the main “politically correct” racial paradigm is that white Americans have “full agency”, while black Americans have “no agency”. This often manifests in the following narratives:
– White Americans are fully accountable for their own thoughts and actions, as well as those of unrelated white people from previous generations. Black Americans by contrast are unaccountable, being completely subject to the forces of history, as a leaf carried downstream by a river.
– Oddly, this “agency alignment” inverts when discussing economic and educational performance. White people who are successful owe their status to “privilege”, whereas non-white people “worked hard and overcame adversity”.
– Contemporary social and economic problems experienced by black Americans and in black American communities are the primary if not exclusive result of racism committed by white Americans.
– Increased government intervention and broad philosophical changes by white Americans are prerequisites to black Americans gaining the opportunity to be socially and economically successful.
This “agency disparity paradigm” has several built-in logical inconsistencies, but those are not generally acknowledged or discussed.
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@ sondis
I have no idea what “ladyinredboots” meant.
I’ll see if he or she explains the comment.
and if not, that’s okay, too.
I’m not on this blog to play those kind of games
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@ Sugarkiss
Maybe there wais some confusion between bossip.com and abagond.com
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nothing to say just want to stay updated
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white folks, confuse me… *_*
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Reblogged this on oogenhand and commented:
Very good points on broken record arguments. Nice picture about the Eurocentric frame even Liberals have.
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On second thought I will say – the minute I saw TrojanPam in the coments,I knew it would be worthy and after reading briefly I can see abagond’s post has been trumped by comments and a ideology more worthy…..
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@Sondis and @ TrojanPam
Thank you both for your blog posts on this subject. I also feel that it is a waste of time to “dialogue” with white people about racism and its destructive effects on POC. However, you both really clarified (at least for me) the reasons why POC shouldn’t bother discussing racism with them. When I was a lot younger ( and naive), I used to think that talking to them about my experiences would help them to understand and prompt them to change their attitudes. Most of the time they just wanted me to reassure them that I didn’t find them racist. Or they would tell me why myea particular incident wasn’t racist or worse attempt to play oppression Olympics with me. Sometimes they would even start tearing up and want me to comfort them. Yeah, I don’t do mammy therapist anymore.
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Adeen,
Honestly this is my advice to White people:
1) Leave us the hell alone and stop obsessing over us.
2)Stop imposing your beauty standards on us.
3) Stop stereotyping us and making assumptions about us.
4) Stop assuming all Black men prefer or want a White woman over a Black woman.
5) Seriously leave us alone and stop coming on our blogs and websites!
Good advice Adeen. Yet, I doubt they would try to understand something so simple. They are driven to watch us, demean us and derail us because they are still trapped in their imperialistic/slave master mentality. They still wish we were their slaves, their subordinates. It’s the only way they can feel good about their past and present sins. Finding healthier and more effective says to cure their latent guilt appears out of the question with these people. This post lists some great suggestions, but they prefer anything else, even if it hurts us.
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@ mochasister:
This is why, white washing of white supremacy, is taught to black children at a very young age, when we are naive and won’t question them.
White supremacy is taught in every public school in America, go to any school and check the curriculum, everything is about white history! Now if that isn’t white supremacy, i don’t know what is.
Then, when we get older, we see for ourselves that what they have been teaching us is false, its not our fault, that our lives consist of depression, which leads to alcohol and drug abuse.
Black men, such as myself, being criminalized at a very young age, grooming us for prison. Its all about educating the young black and brown, youth.
We need to get them young, before supremacy gets at them, so they can be well, equipped to deal with it, when it eventually comes within their path.
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“Why not go to their OWN PEOPLE and educate them on their demonism? Why are they always in our faces?”
What do you think we are doing ? Why do you always assume that “other” people do what you *imagine* they do ?
Plus my “people” (I’m talking for my own self) are not the people who look like me, but those who think like me. That helps to build something together.
This is a public place, Diary, anyone can hang around here and get advice from people who know better.
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Trojanpam
There are people you have never met who would tell you otherwise.
“instinctive” ?
Code of conduct, yes. Instinctive ? No. Otherwise people like me wouldn’t exist. (And I take NO pride in saying that, I wish I didn’t have to discuss this… because of people who look like me).
But white supremacy likes it when we are ignored. Because we are its worst fear. The proof that it shouldn’t exist and will die.
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@ mochasister
When I look back, I used to hear all those false arguments from white people about “white victimization” and “black racism” (which cannot exist within a system of white supremacy and it took me a while to realize I was talking to dead air.
For a long time I made a lot of false assumptions about racism and the (white) people who practiced it. For example,
I used to think that white people who had sex with or dated or married black people could not be racist (FALSE)
I used to think that black people knew white people better than white people knew (understood) black people (FALSE)
I used to think successful, high-profile “first blacks” were great role models and actually had respect and power (FALSE)
I used to think that if I (or anyone) could really convince white people that they were wrong to hurt us just because we weren’t white that things might change (FALSE)
and the one thing that gave me the most clarity was listening to Mr. Neely Fuller, Jr, who has been analyzing racism/white supremacy for almost fifty years — and who I devoted an entire blogsite to sharing his sound clips and information – http://theblackcodefiles.com
(FYI — I do NOT sell anything on this site)
I have never in my life heard anyone explain racism/white supremacy as a GLOBAL SYSTEM of DOMINATION with as much simplicity and clarity as humanly possible
and once I got over having my (false) EGO trashed and my hurt feelings as I listened to Mr. Fuller break it down, I realized just how wrong-headed and confused I really was about darn near everything and
that’s when I began to UNDERSTAND how racism/white supremacy functions in all nine areas of human activity,
education, economics, entertainment, labor, law, politics, religion, sex, and war
and realized that is the KEY to dismantling this system is KNOWLEDGE of it.
NOT more black and non-white people getting college degrees, or fancy titles, or expensive clothing, cars, houses, and liquor, and mixing with (and getting validated by) white people and having more sex and babies and marriages with white people
It’s not even about having bigger guns or atomic weapons or superior martial arts skills.
It’s about CHANGING what we –as Victims — say, do, and think — as INDIVIDUALS.
It’s about neutralizing the WHITE CHIP in our heads that tells us that we are inferior and that it is NATURAL to SUBMIT to being dominated because we are “inferior.”
It’s about understanding how the system of racism/white supremacy works AND just like the Wizard of Oz, once you start pulling that curtain back of “white superiority”
that’s when the GAME starts to change
(please excuse my long post, hope it didn’t sound like preaching but I had to get it out)
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@ TrojanPam:
*clap clap clap clap clap
whistle………………. Preach…negra….preach!
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^ CALM DOwn will ya u actin like u at a strip club with all that clappin, n whistlin
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@ Cornlia
yes, I think there must be an instinctive, genetic, or biological element somewhere in the white psyche, otherwise how does one explain the way white people – no matter where they go in the world and no matter what era it is (17th century, 21st century, etc) —
that their COLLECTIVE behavior is one of AGGRESSION AND VIOLENCE toward non-white people?
How could so many white people who have NEVER met or put their heads together have the SAME reaction to non-white people?
whether they were so-called “Native Americans” who taught the European invaders who to survive and create a government in the so-called “new world and their kindness was met with horrific violence and genocide
to the Aboriginal people in Australia that have been victims of genocide and extreme cruelty and oppression by European invaders
to the non-white people in New Zealand who have suffered under European colonialism
and Africa, and Latin America and everywhere and anywhere white people have come into contact with non-white people, the same VIOLENT scenarios take place.
this cannot be denied. It is an indisputable FACT.
and there the biggest difference– in my opinion — that white people are the ONLY PEOPLE on the planet, in the history of the planet that created a SYSTEM and a JUSTIFICATION for dominating and oppressing non-white people BASED ON SKIN COLOR ALONE
there has NEVER been a “system of red supremacy” or “brown supremacy” or “yellow supremacy” or “black supremacy” where those red, brown, yellow, or black people went all over the world and taught people who looked different that they were ugly, and stupid, and worthless, and DESERVED to be mistreated.
If you can find any LINKS or DOCUMENTS or PROOF that disputes this, please share it. I have never found it and I have looked.
that is why I believe — in my GUT– that racism is at least in part, an INSTINCTIVE behavior in white people’s psyches, perhaps due to a FEAR of being a TRUE minority on the planet and a fear of being genetically annihilated.
—–
when you said, “code of conduct, yes. Instinctive ? No. Otherwise people like me wouldn’t exist. But white supremacy likes it when we are ignored. Because we are its worst fear. The proof that it shouldn’t exist and will die.”
Unfortunately, I don’t agree with your statement. What I have found is the white people who don’t openly practice racism and who are appalled by the more vocal or violent or distastefully RACIST acts,
usually STILL believe in white supremacy and that whites should be in charge, only they feel that non-whites shouldn’t be treated so nastily, like dragging them behind pick-up trucks and calling them dirty names in public.
I have NEVER, ever met a white person, even those who were very personable, who did not believe in white supremacy and in dominating no-white people OR who was sincere about giving up their white privileges.
NEVER
of course, that’s my experience, but that’s all I can speak from
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@ sondis
* please listen to mstoogood4yall before you get us negras kicked out of Abagond’s club *
he is the true star of this show (and this blog)
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How many stereotypical images regarding native Americans can you count in the cartoon?
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* claps claps claps…looks left in TrojanPam’s direction —> (o o )
*whistles…………….looks right in mstoogood4yall’s direction—> ( o o)
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@ sondis
You better stop whistling at me before you end up like this lol
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@ Delwin
Right, like the Mulan picture in yesterday’s post – and unlike its picture of Trixie – it depends on stereotypes to make the people in it “seem” like members of a certain race. That is something that is rarely done to “normal” people of the racial default.
This picture would have gone well with both the mukokuseki and the White Default posts. It criticizes the White Default and yet assumes it.
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@ mstoogood4yall:
if you look like that, you can behead me, any day! ^_^
Just having some fun with my sistas on this blog. 🙂
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Rofl. naw I wish I looked like this, i’ll let her be my body/hair motivation.
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@Kiwi
I think that kind of post might just fall on deaf ears too. :-\
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@ Kiwi
“Advice to the whitewashed” sounds super tempting, but I must warn you that my offline efforts in that department fall on extremely deaf ears. Of course, that did not stop me from writing this post!
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@Trojan Pam,
Wow! You are absolutely correct. Everywhere Whites go, they practise discrimination, genocide, oppression, slavery, and general inhumane treatment of non-Whites solely based on the fact that people are different. Like Truthbetold (Diary of Negress) always says, they will NEVER EVER change. They cannot be reformed. They are so fanatically, psychotically, obsessed with the idea that they are God’s PERFECT creation and that all over races are simpy toys for them to play with.
In a nutshell, racism is GENETIC to Whites. It comes naturally to them, like breathing air. Also, we Blacks have had over 500 years dealing with them, we should know them inside out and that they cannot be reformed regarding their natural racist instincts. We (and other non-Whites) have been trying for CENTURIES, even now, trying to convince them that Blacks (and other non-Whites) are human, intelligent etc.
Give up trying to change, you are wasting your time.
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@Ellis et all:
“In a nutshell, racism is GENETIC to Whites.”
Really? So, in a nutshell, the white racists are right when they claim that there are biological differences between the human populations?
White racists are right when “they” claim that “you” should be seen and treated as “the other”, as non-human from their perspective?
So, in a nutshell, white racists are right when they say that “you” do not belong to their life style and living standards, that they have a biolgical right to put “you” down because they can because they have the “biological abilities” to do so?
“we Blacks have had over 500 years dealing with them, we should know them inside out and that they cannot be reformed regarding their natural racist instincts.”
“Blacks” and “whites” have had interaction between them at least 5000 years by now. That is a historical fact. Even William Shapespeare wrote a hit play about a black leading carachter in 1500’s. Racism we are fighting today was born in 1600’s to explain what right the european commercial companies had to slave and destroy foreign nations and people and cultures.
“Give up trying to change, you are wasting your time.”
And what is the alternative? The Race war? You do know the “white history”? For the “White” it is no big deal to kill millions if need be. If the occasion rises they can and will kill any number of their enemies. Hitler started a basically white civil war, which the white history history likes to call World War 2, and that caused around 50 million to die. That is what the white can do. Easily. It is in their culture. All they need is the trigger. Any excuse. It is in the system itself.
In 1990’s whites had a small civil war in Europe, couple hours from the tourist beaches of Italy and Greece, discos and promenades of Mediterannean. Turism was doing just fine during that war only few dozen miles away from the mass graves and mass killings. 350 000 humanbeings were killed in few months. Just like that.
Now, what is causing this? Biology? Race?
It is the system. It is the money. It is the power. That is what is protected here. That is why and to what racism is used. It keeps the poor and the down trodded permanently divided. All fro profit. It is that simple.
Arabs hate jews, europeans, blacks, specially americans of all colors; americans hate arabs, muslims, each other, foreigners in general, mexicans particulary; europeans hate each other and everybody else; japanese hate chinese and koreans, koreans hate japanese and chinese, chinese hate koreans, japanese, vietnamese, tibetians etc. And so and so it goes around the world. In Africa they hate each other, different ethnic groups, political parties, nations look each other as enemies, foreigners as enemies etc.
This is the system. Keep them divided. Keep them occupied with their hate. Let them hate, flame it, keep it going, and sell them guns and weapons to kill each other, for there is money in that too.
Use the media to advance this system. Race and hate. Manipulate them all. Pull the veil over their eyes. Misguide them. Let them go after each other. Let them publish racial hate books, theories, let them speak out against each other. It only advances the grip of the system. It is beneficial. Money can be made out fo those who are blinded by the hate and racism.
Instead of facing one powerful challenge, they can pick up their enemies one by one. One group here, another over there. Separate divided groups are easily crushed by the system. No worries at all. It has happened and will happen again and again just because the system works. You will have your own fight against it, we will have ours, and those guys over there will have their fight, and for some reason we all loose. Again and again. Naturally. That is the very idea. Keeping us divided.
Anyone promoting the idea of biological races, the very core idea of racism, is also supporting that racism. The belief in the biological races is the key belief in racism. If you believe in biological races, you are a racist. It is that simple. After that, everything else flows trough easily. After that it is very simple to manipulate you and misguide you, trick you. Fool you.
Racism is an ideology. It is younger than christianity, buddhism, hiduism etc. It is just one ideology. That is important to remember. It is an idea. It is a lie. It is constructed to deceive you, to fool you. It is there for purpose and that is the same purpose it was created for in 1600’s. To make money by what ever methods, war included. Never ever forget that.
There is only one human race in the planet. No white race, no black race. There is no race called european, caucasian, african, asian… That is a scientifical fact. The ones who want you believe otherwise are the ones promoting racism. They are upholding the very ideology. And we must step out from that mind frame if we ever are going to do anything about this ideology. We must denounce it, refuse it, curse it. Every day, every way. Also in our selves.
Only a hundred years ago the swedish researchers claimed that the finns are of lesser race than the swedes and other germanic people. That was plus hundred years ago. Not a single swede would make that claim anymore. Why? Because there is no money in it. There is no power in that claim anymore. It is useless today.
Racism is one corner stone in the global system that benefits the few. It is the key corner stone in the american system which benefits the few. That is what it is all about: money and power. Not biology.
And yes, I am a white male and I do not believe in biological races. I do not believe in racism. I renounce it. Every day. I refuse to believe in it. I will not accept its values and arguments. It is my desicion. It is my choice. It is not easy, it is not automatical, it is not handy, it is not a slogan or a politically correct trick to make me feel fine. It is part of my political world view, part of my convictions. It is me.
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Abagond, I agree with Kiwi. I fhink it would be interesting to have a post for whitewashed nonwhites. I would never call myself whitewashed not wven in my younger (and naive) days, but your blog and other commenters have helped open my eyes about some things. Maybe you could do a blog on how nonwhites can begin to rid themselves of the harmful effects from all the racist brainwashing we endure. Or have you already blogged on that and I missed it?
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But how do we (as in people of color) dismantle a GLOBAL system of oppression? How do we go about it without causing real world war? White people are not just going to give up their power. I have to remember the reaction of the Republican party when Barack Obama was elected for his second term, in that sea of white faces I saw shock, horror, and I saw fear. It stunned me to the core, SHOCKED me, I mean I can understand shock, even horror but fear?? What are they afraid of??? What? And The system is everywhere, even in places that you think is too remote, somehow it still filters in. Most of the world population believes it, and enforce it in various ways. I mean how How do you change the word when the world does not want or doesn’t think that it wants to change?
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I *think* “some” “Whites” actually voted for Obama… If I remember well…
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Trojanpam
You’ll get a true answer from me: racists say racist things, non-racists don’t.
Why do you imagine every other so-called “white” person keeps some “racial hatred” secret ?
I have NEVER in my whole life thought, imagined, invented, whatever the verb ANYTHING that was racist, scornful, unpleasant, discriminatory, etc against people whose skin color is darker than mine or culture different. I might have expressed surprise at some peculiarities (as I’m sure you have to) like eating peanut butter sandwiches with sweet and sour pickles.
You may not believe it, and continue with the same discourse, thereby ignoring the fact that people like me and Sam, for instance, on this blog, exist. But we do exist.
And of course White supremacy makes sure you don’t believe that we do exist. That’s one way it functions. By making sure we stay separated and by maintaining the distrust.
Trojanpam you wonder about the continued domination. How is it possible to get rid of it. I have one answer: abandon race-thinking. Tell those people whose ancestors called themselves “white” that they ARE NOT WHITE. They will HATE it if they are racist (I know I have already done it many time, and they do hate it, because you are poking where it hurts). They won’t care if they are not.
RACE is the source of all the problems, because it is the source of racism.
Can you reference the studies you are referring to here:
Do you have children ?
Do you know that a child under 1 listen and understand A LOT of things ? (I am currently digitalizing the videos I made of my kids when they were very little and all they needed was to be able to speak…)
So they can be taught a lot even before they reach school. And they are. Parents tell them: you are “white”, you are “black”, this is a “black” man, “whites” do this and that, “blacks” are like this and that. They don’t let the children build their own opinion on others. They induce separation by stating things that *seem* simple and *obvious*. They apply “essence” (biology) to social facts.
Children who haven’t been taught about race DO NOT react in racist ways to others. They express like and dislike of others on other grounds than “race”, when they DON’T know what race is. Race has to be taught to you so you know / learn what it is.
I learnt about “race” when I arrive in the US at age 20. Or rather, I learnt about it first when I filled out visa paperwork in France. I didn’t even know what I was supposed to put on that “race” line. I looked up the dictionary because I wanted to know what it could be administratively speaking. I knew about racist laws in the US through the Civil Rights struggle. But I didn’t know it was *still* in use. All of my fellow-students who were going on the exchange had the same reaction, when we arrive at school we said: “do you see what they ask ?” I wrote “white” with a pencil and added a question mark next to it. To me it was INCREDIBLE that I could be asked that. It sounded like 19th century stuff.
To most Americans, this is something that is viewed as “natural”, because most still see “race” as “essence”, as biological. They are surprised when you question or refuse it. I do it regularly when I fill out papers for doctors or other stuff. I know they are surprised because I can see their face when I explain why I don’t put anything in “race”.
Many/most people around this planet do not define themselves racially. Please stop thinking that Amerikkkan thinking is universal. It is not.
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@Cornlia
I am quite aware that less than 40 percent of white Americans voted for Obama. But I was not talking about the whites who voted for Obama. I was talking about the ones who didn’t and their reaction. What were they afraid of since supposedly racism doesn’t exist in modern America, and white privilege is just a myth? If those things are not part of our society, why were they scared? Could it be that they saw his reelection as an indication that their “white privilege” was decreasing since Obama was still able to be reelected despite the increased amount of white Americans who didn’t vote for him. I don’t know, but those white Americans who reacted with fear, showed that they are quite aware of their privilege and they want to keep it.
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Okay, Dauphine, understood.
Then we really need to make a difference between racists and others… Personally, since I do not use racial references when I don’t have to, “whites” are people with a racist-oriented mind. And others are Euro-descendants.
I know some people here and there are going to laugh this away, but it really doesn’t matter as long as what I mean is clear.
Thanks for the explanation.
I had exactly the same reaction as you did. When this FoxNews guy talked about “stuff” people wanted, I was like “what the heck is he talking about ?” And then I got it.
These people are crazy. They really suffer from deep mental disorders. That’s why we are shocked, because in spite of those disorders, they rule…
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Sam, I co-sign.
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@ Cornlia
Your response was fairly long so I’ll hit the major points you made in a couple of separate posts:
You said: Why do you imagine every other so-called “white” person keeps some “racial hatred” secret?
ME: because white people seemed OBSESSED with racism and with the differences between themselves and non-white people.
White people seem OBSESSED with being and feeling superior to everyone and everything and if you check all over the Internet, white people are everywhere, always talking BAD about black (and non-white) people.
and will start bashing black people on blogs EVEN when the topic is not about black people. (?!?)
(( shaking head ))
White people have created ENTIRE WEBSITES devoted to bad-mouthing and degrading black people. White people take the time to sit around and CREATE JOKES and CARTOONS that degrade black and non-white people.
I have NEVER seen black or non-white people spend ANY amount of time creating CARTOONS AND JOKES degrading white people (other than a PROFESSIONAL comedian who is being PAID — usually by other white people — to stand on a stage and entertain them)
I suspect we don’t do this because we spend so much of our life’s energy DEFENDING ourselves against this “white” humor and white people
White people (in Hollywood) spend a HUGE amount of time, money, and energy making hundreds, maybe thousands, of movies over the last ninety years that degrade and stereotype black and non-white people.
White people spend a HUGE amount of time, money, and energy creating the FICTION that non-white people are inferior and spread that poison all over the planet.
White people spend a HUGE amount of time, money, and energy waging war, attacking, exploiting, robbing, raping, killing, and dominating non-white people.
AND then after all that madness, they spend a TON of time and energy having SEX with non-white people, the same people they say are “inferior” to them
AND at the END of spending all this energy, time, and money They DENY THAT THEY ARE DOING ANYTHING WRONG AT ALL and that the GLOBAL system of racism/white supremacy is a FIGMENT of their black and nonwhite VICTIMS’ “imaginations”
And other white people – both “racist” and so-called “non-racist” will BACK THEM UP by “claiming” not to understand what black and non-white people are complaining about,
all while claiming WHITE INNOCENCE about everything they KNOW they are doing to non-white people.
And if that isn’t a HUGE RACIAL SECRET among white people, I don’t know what else it could be
Like you, for example, saying:
“I have NEVER in my whole life thought, imagined, invented, whatever the verb ANYTHING that was racist, scornful, unpleasant, discriminatory, etc against people whose skin color is darker than mine or culture different. I might have expressed surprise at some peculiarities (as I’m sure you have to) like eating peanut butter sandwiches with sweet and sour pickles.”
No disrespect intended, but I DO NOT BELIEVE YOU. It is IMPOSSIBLE in a white supremacist culture for ANYONE not to have even a negative “thought” about a black or non-white person when you are INUNDATED with it from every waking moment. Even BLACK people think negatively about other black people — but not YOU?
Not ONE Time, not never, ever, ever have you had a single racist thought?
And this is why I personally feel (know) it is a WASTE OF TIME TO TALK ABOUT RACISM WITH WHITE PEOPLE.
They are either in DENIAL or are full of it. One or the other.
Of course, that’s my opinion, and I assume you disagree.
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@ Cornlia
In answer to my question, “What do white people say about black people when no black people are in the room?”
You said: “You’ll get a true answer from me: racists say racist things, non-racists don’t.”
Maybe, that’s true, but I suspect that WHILE “racists” are saying racist things, the majority of so-called “non-racist” whites are either in silent agreement OR say nothing other other than a few words of protests to the “racist white person” for disturbing their peaceful tranquility
much like a scolding parent cautions a disruptive child to “tone it down” but still loves them despite all being said and done by that BRAT
Dr. Frances C. Welsing has asked this question for DECADES, speaking to white people in GROUPS, and she said she got only ONE answer in all that time
and it came from a white female college professor who said, “Dr. Welsing, you’re right. Whenever white people come together they are always talking bad about black people and it’s assumed that everyone in the room is in agreement.”
Dr. Welsing added that even with that answer that white female STILL didn’t tell her what was said OR what white people said they were going to DO to black people.
And I PERSONALLY have posted this question for about TWO years on black sites and topix.com sites and on my blog to white people and you are the FIRST ONE to answer the question.
HOWEVER, you gave the kind of “non-answer” answer that still obscured the question. WHAT DO WHITE PEOPLE SAY WHEN NO BLACK PEOPLE ARE IN THE ROOM?
So, let me re-phrase the question:
What kinds of racist things do they say?
Cornlia, since you said you know what is said, will you tell us here?
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Trojanpam
when you say this:
I could take it as an insult to who I am and what I try to do, but I don’t because I can understand that you would have lost all trust.
But, this is what racists want you to do. Their system works perfectly. You can’t trust any of “us” (so-called whites) because the system is made in such a way that you can’t. If you did, it would be dangerous for you, because you have no way to “know for sure” who is really not racist or not, unless you have real proof. And you won’t have it on the internet, for instance.
Whether you believe it or not, I am not (and I think Sam here too, I allow myself to speak in his name) a “so-called non-racist”. I am NOT racist. I know why and I know how. I know what I do to apply my political convictions. I don’t have to prove anything, I do it. And even if I were to tell you or others here what I do, I know I would get bashed by some for trying to show off and so on.
I understand and agree with all of what you’re saying, except the idea that racism is “natural” for “whites”. It is cultural for those who call themselves white. I have never felt racism, been taught it and I have never and will never define myself as “white” because to me it is a state of mind, not a skin color.
As Sam said, it is an ideology that is politically enforced.
I don’t disagree with you, you are expressing what your experience with so-called “whites” tells you to do and you are trying to protect yourself and others like you from their (racists’) cruelty. I can understand that.
But if it possible, keep in mind that there are (a few) people classified as “white” by racism who do not condone it and who are trying to fight it, even though we don’t have much power (especially in the media, where “anti-racism” is orchestrated to not threaten the system, for instance by seemingly positively playing on the “white and black” dichotomy, which is the basis of racism), we try. Not believing that we exist (even if you have decided that you have nothing to do with us, I don’t mind) is like telling the racists they have won.
Thanks for reading my post and replying.
Peace
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@ Cornlia
You asked, “Can you reference the studies you are referring to here:
Even white people have done studies that show that white babies may show a dislike for non-white people AND during a 20-20 experiment, they found that white children as young as four and five years old choose the “black-sounding” names as “bad kids” and the “white-sounding names” as “nice and smart” kids
—
Sure, but rather than post a lot of links on abagond’s blog
you can Google — are white babies racist — and there are several articles you can read about this, and decide whether you believe it or not.
Keep in mind, black people did NOT say this, it is WHITE PEOPLE who said it, so if you disagree, you have a BEEF with them, not me.
The 20-20 program was called, “The Impact of your Name”
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=2463266&page=1#.Uaishtjhf4Y
(Excerpt)
Jack Daniel, a professor of communication at the University of Pittsburgh, has done research that shows both white and black children prefer white-sounding names.
Daniel asked a group of (white) 4- and 5-year-old children a series of questions. The children were asked to answer the questions based solely on names. For example, “Who is the smartest, Sarah or Shaniqua?”
“Sarah,” one boy answered.
Daniel asked, “Who would you like to play with, Tanisha or Megan?”
“Megan,” another child said.
Daniel asked, “Who took the bite out of your sandwich? Do you think it was Adam or Jamal?”
Another boy said, “Jamal.”
—————–
The video of this program might be on Youtube for those interested in seeing it. I watched it years ago and it was clear to me that white children as young as FOUR years old already knew ‘black is inferior aka bad’.
Again, this story came from white people so I take no responsibility for the research OR the conclusions.
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We can try to change white people or we can go to war with them. Those were the only two options in the 60s and those are the only options now.
The entire purpose of integration is to change the way white people think about Black people, so they would stop killing us. Not for good jobs, a better education, or the good food to be had in white-only restaurants.
Black people can create their own companies and communities. We’ve done it before. The thing is that we weren’t able to protect those companies and communities from white people. That was the problem with segregation. It offers no protection from racists and fosters even more racism. As long as we were completely separate, we were just a great big target and while we are still targets, we are a lot harder to hit, even though we haven’t arrived at complete integration.
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@ Cornlia,
who said, “…this is what racists want you to do. Their system works perfectly. You can’t trust any of “us” (so-called whites) because the system is made in such a way that you can’t. If you did, it would be dangerous for you, because you have no way to “know for sure” who is really not racist or not, unless you have real proof.”
—
I think the main reason white supremacy functions so effectively IS black people spend too much time trying to decide which white person is a racist and who is not — while BOTH BENEFIT FROM WHITE PRIVILEGES
and there is NO way a black person can ever be sure if a white person is a racist who is just not practicing racism at that moment, which is why white people DENYING they are racist does NOT help solve this problem.
It just CONFUSES the Victims and turns them — us — into a people with a split personality complex, walking around in total confusion.
That’s why it is CRUCIAL to understand HOW the system of white supremacy functions because it is a GLOBAL SYSTEM made up of white individuals who practice racism all the time, some of the time, occasionally, and depending on the circumstances might NOT practice it at all — at that PARTICULAR TIME.
That’s why black and non-white people should NOT focus on white individuals practicing racism (or not) AND focus on the SYSTEM and HOW it functions in all nine areas of human activity.
economics
education
entertainment
labor
law
politics
religion
sex,
war
and then you will begin to see a PATTERN of behavior that will NULLIFY all claims by any WHITE INDIVIDUALS that they are not “personally” practicing racism even while they are still BENEFITING from white privilege
(and I have YET to meet a white person who is SINCERELY willing to give that up for themselves OR their children, be they racist or not)
Bottom line, there is NO WAY less than 9% of the world’s population could DOMINATE the other 91% UNLESS the VAST MAJORITY OF WHITE PEOPLE were not on the same or similar page AND practicing a UNIVERSAL WHITE CODE OF CONDUCT
NO FREAKING WAY
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@ Dauphine
Unfortunately, I don’t see a way to take power away from a violently corrupt system without using violence. Power NEVER exchanges hands peacefully. It must be TAKEN (back) violently because it is always SEIZED by violent means.
That being said – and I hope I don’t offend – President Obama did NOT take power.
President Obama was used as a SYMBOL of power by the most powerful white people to FOOL and CONFUSE non-white people that the same white supremacy was not being practiced against them.
All over the world, the U.S. is waging war against non-white people in the so-called “Middle East” and in Africa and Latin America and all over the world
UNDER the BANNER of a “first black” President.
Not only has racism NOT decreased, it has INCREASED because another reason President Obama was (s)elected was to TAKE THE BLAME AKA BE THE BLACK SCAPEGOAT for the crimes of the white elite
We must look at this realistically.
A non-wealthy black male (supposedly) coming out of nowhere is suddenly nominated, vetted, educated, and FINANCED to the tune of over ONE BILLION DOLLARS by the wealthiest, most powerful whites in the nation
So they can make him their “boss” and tell them what to do?
How is that scenario possible in the real world? It isn’t.
So, white people voting for Obama doesn’t prove they are not racist. I don’t necessarily believe the numbers were all that high to begin with. We really have NO idea (or proof) who won the election because the PEOPLE DON’T COUNT THE VOTES, the VOTING MACHINES COUNTED THE VOTES.
And even those frustrated white people who voted for Obama is NO PROOF of whether they are “racist” or not. Just like going to a Michael Jackson (God rest his soul) concert doesn’t prove a white person is a racist or not.
Again, we should FOCUS on the system of racism/white supremacy and how it functions AND how white people FUNCTION within the system to maintain it.
NOT on whether a sole white person voted for Obama OR is laying in bed next to a black person every night.
None of that proves a single thing when it comes to proving which white person is a racist and who is not.
In my opinion.
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Trojanpam, please don’t reproach me with the length of it. You asked for it !
That is -again- a little insulting, but again, I can understand why you would say that. You are also manipulated into believing “we -so called whites- are all the same” and “there is none to save the other” (not sure of the expression in English)
If your reference is Dr Welsing, then we will disagree for sure, because she bases all her theory on the supposed biological reality of “race”. So of course she believes ALL whites “are like that and you can’t do anything about it”.
What ???
I think I explained what I had to say. Do you want me to write a list ? Why would you want to know more about what you know already ?
Anyways… (I find this kinda strange on your part, but)
Here we go…
What they say ?
Hmmm, a lot of them know that in my presence they can’t say much… otherwise they’ll get it in their face. Plus I am not interested in their conversation AT ALL. So I avoid them as much as I can. These people are not my friends. And if they are and start to express themselves in such ways, they are crossed from my friends right away.
So basically, I can refer to some family members (whom I try to avoid too) and to some of my students (who were all between age 14 and 16).
My American pen-pal is an African-American (I didn’t “choose” her and she didn’t “choose” me, a machine did many years ago). Back in 2001 when she visited us in France (we still are in touch), I video-taped her and prepared classes with her interviews.
When I used her interviews in the early 2000s, students were delighted to be able to hear and see “the teacher’s pen-pal”. Then by the end of the 2000s, some attitudes started changing, which corresponds to LePen’s and Sarkozy’s rise in power, and the “liberation of racist talk”, so called “la droite décomplexée” (the de-complexed right wing) by Sarkozy.
Then I started to get reaction like: “oh un négro” (Oh a nigger) and “Regardez le babouin” (look at the baboon) from a few of the oldest students (not the youngest, never). Which I NEVER ever heard before. But others students protested, even more vehemently that they saw I was reacting strongly (I could see that they observed me to see how I reacted and were somehow making sure that I was “with them” to react. Racism is very powerful…)
This is why I am saying that it is an ideology that is enforced and supported by forces that “allow” you to behave that way.
In France, I would have many more racist instances to relate about “Arabs” than about dark-skinned Africans (at least from a few years ago). In that case, all kinds of insults and stories (supposedly funny ones, as you said) would be thrown into the conversation.
Which I would put a halt to right away. By stating that it’s not funny and that I totally disagree with that. It always put the speakers in shock, because they expect everyone who “looks” like them to agree with them and have fun with them. I stood up to my paternal grand-father once on this. He was very racist, the exact opposite of my other grand-father who wasn’t at all.
One insult against “Arabs” (I use brackets because this wide reaching “ethnic” term doesn’t correspond to who these people actually are, as for instance in France a lot of those deemed “Arabs” are Berbers/Kabil people) is “sale bougnoul” (dirty “bougnoul”)
Bougnoul is actually a Wolof word (main language spoken in Senegal) which means “the color black” (not black for a person) which the French colonialists apparently used to designate the Natives and then transfered in North Africa to designate “the Arabs”.
A few years ago, a girl (of Algerian origin, an Arab in her case) called another student “bougnoul” behind me. I turned around and said, “what did you say to her ?” She was all confused and said “but everyone calls us that way”. I stopped my class and did a little history and linguistic improvised course to try and show them how racism is internalized.
I also have had several “encounters” with straight out the village neo-nazis, kids the age of 15-16, usually the laziest and stupidest in their class, who deliberately wrote racist remarks, drawings and swastikas on their papers to provoke me because they knew who I am. I managed to get the school rid off one of the worst of them who was beginning to build a clan with the weakest of them, and apparently had charisma (not to me…). I used to pinup posters in the hall in response to racist provocations when I knew about them.
My students of foreign origin knew they could trust me to go all the way to help them in case of racist behavior on the part of other students or teachers. I was not liked by some of the latter because of that.
So yeah, I prefer my tranquility of mind to my material tranquility. I actually think that my career “stagnates” because of my expressing my views and acting in the frame of my pedagogical prerogatives. I organized a one year project on South Africa in order to have the topic of racism covered extensively in my school, but knowing how people react when you say “racism”, I arranged the project so that the focus seemed to be the Soccer World Cup (that was in 2010). I managed (because there are other non-racist people here and there who understand what the point is) to get a South African friend invited to our school for a week, during which he moved from one class to another every period. Most of the teachers in most of the subjects worked on a topic about SA. Those (few) I could trust worked on things related directly to racism.
When I went to see my Principal during the preparation of the project (I needed help), he turned to me and said “vous me faites chier avec votre projet” (“You piss me off with your project”). I replied: “that’s a way to put it”
and got down to business.
That was one of my ways to try and make people aware. It’s not easy. But it has to be done.
This was a long post again. Sorry about that.
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Trojanpam, I can only agree with your last post. Unfortunately. We are saying the same thing in different ways.
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I mean not your post addressed to dauphine, the one before.
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How do you get people who automatically benefit from a system to renounce it ?
That’s why white supremacy works. Whatever you do, you will still benefit from it. Even being able to fight it from the inside is an advantage !
You cannot reproach people for being the “victims”/agents of a system, even if they seemingly (materially) benefit from it, psychologically they don’t.
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Randy,
The government has generally accommodated white people’s “lack of agency” with government programs that have historically excluded black people. That is white privilege. White people didn’t have a problem with “increased government intervention and broad philosophical changes” when they knew it would only benefit white people.
The government has also physically restricted black agency for hundreds of years. Black agency has had a lot more obstacles to overcome. I mean, there isn’t much more you can do than chattel slavery to restrict a person’s agency. You could kill them, I guess.
White people work hard, black people have to work harder. That is white privilege.
I don’t know how the narrative of white people having fully agency and black people having no agency could be considered politically correct, as it is racist and incorrect. It is obvious America doesn’t believe this. If it were true. black people wouldn’t get harsher punishments than white people for committing the same crimes.
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To put it briefly, (that includes Sam’s ideas)
If “race” wasn’t good for business it would have been outlawed long ago.
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@ solesearch
that was a great response to Randy’s post.
If the collective necks of white people occasionally chafe under the collar of the white supremacist IDEOLOGY that THEY created (NOT us)
then I guess that’s part of the cost of being the boss
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@ Cornlia
RACE (aka RACE-ISM) has been GREAT for white business and is the CORNERSTONE of white generational wealth,
much of it (possibly most of it)
coming from 400 years of CHATTEL SLAVERY and COLONIALISM of non-white people all over the planet via
gold and diamond mines in Africa
oil-rich resources in the so-called Middle East
poppy fields in Afghanistan
slave labor in India, Vietnam, Africa, Mexico, Latin America, the Caribbeans, and the U.S.A.
that is why RACE-ISM will NEVER be VOLUNTARILY abolished by those who benefit from it.
and that’s the ONLY reason “RACE” was created. To practice “RACE-ISM” and justify the exploitation and oppression of NON-WHITE PEOPLE.
There is only ONE race: the “white race”
because only white people have the GLOBAL SYSTEMS and INSTITUTIONS to practice it RACE-ISM.
everyone else can exploit and mistreat other people but NONE have a GLOBAL SYSTEM or a system that puts them at ODDS with everyone else on the planet based on COLOR
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@ cornlia
who said: “How do you get people who automatically benefit from a system to renounce it?”
—
You won’t, that’s why white people who are sincerely interested in justice would tell the TRUTH ABOUT RACISM, AND HOW WHITE PEOPLE PRACTICE
AND tell black people what white people SAY and DO when no black people are in the room. Even so-called white anti-racists like Tim Wise have not done that (to my knowledge)
you said: “You cannot reproach people for being the “victims”/agents of a system, even if they seemingly (materially) benefit from it, psychologically they don’t.”
—
of course you can. Just like the German people were REPROACHED for allowing themselves to be “agents” of Nazi Germany. and they were FORCED TO PAY UP.
the only time this specious argument rears its head is when black and non-white people try to hold WHITE PEOPLE accountable for the white supremacy system by making them change their ways — and PAY FOR THEIR CRIMES VIA REPARATIONS.
(which could not function without the vast majority of white people participating either by commission OR omission (remaining silent while other white people practice racism)
Frankly, as a lifelong Victim of White Supremacy, I could care less if white people benefit “psychologically” from their white privileges (better food, housing, shelter, right, education, legal protection, medically, economically, etc)
when I am a black person out of work, my son is beaten by police, my daughter is denied a quality education, or my husband is denied a promotion at work.
I have already ASSUMED that RACISM is a MENTAL ILLNESS practiced by the white global minority and that like SOCIOPATHY (if that’s a word)
has no cure.
so to say that white people don’t “benefit” psychologically from white privileges is kind of like saying they are being victimized for being white and more privileged
Who cares if someone pays the price of poor mental health for causing harm OR benefiting from harming others?
I don’t.
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@Trojam
I agree with you and that is why I believe us Blacks should start our own businesses and not rely on Whites. Trust me, Whites need us more than we need them.
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@TrojanPam
How can I be offended when you’re making sense?
But if racism is a mental illness that has no cure then nothing will change no matter how we strife to improve race relations, in 5,000 thousand years, in 100,000 years there will always be some sort of oppressive system that interlocks the “races.” Something that was socially constructed for the sake of greed and power will effect human existence forever?? Now that’s a disturbing thought…
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@ Adeen
I agree that black people MUST find a way to become more self-sufficient.
I strongly suspect that the closing of so many black schools and the increasingly INADEQUATE and inferior education,
the building of more prisons, the forcing out of black people from major metropolitan areas where NEW JOBS will be concentrated
and the increasing influx of non-white immigrants from all over the world
should be taken as a SIGNAL (and a WARNING) that black people are becoming an UNDESIRABLE HUMAN COMMODITY.
in other words, our labor is becoming OBSOLETE.
even when we have education, degrees, and experience, we are still the last hired and the first fired and have a HIGHER unemployment rate than illegal immigrants who care barely speak English.
the jobs POOR blacks USED TO DO have been given to brown people who are also being greatly exploited so I do NOT blame them for what is happening to black people. That’s a waste of time.
the CLOSING of black schools also says (to me) that the white elites feel it is a WASTE of money to educate people who will be little more than slaves in the scheme of things.
Educated slaves are troublesome, problematic slaves so they FRAME racism in education as the “inabliity of those dumb black children to learn”
I’ve done two blogposts on why black schools are closing, you can check them out here
http://racismws.com/2013/05/23/chicago-school-closings-racial-dislocation/
Not only will we have to CREATE our own jobs in the coming future, we will have to create our OWN schools to help our black children get the kind of education they DESERVE.
And I’d start with turning all these black churches into black schools, and using the collection plate to PAY the salaries of all these laid-off teachers.
that might be a start
but it’s obvious our communities are UNDER ATTACK, and that our focus and faith in a “first black” anything (including a president) is clearly a
WASTE OF TIME AND ENERGY that is needed to do constuctive and necessary work. We must stop expecting white people to do anything to help this situation
because once they “help” they CONTROL and RE-DIRECT
So we wind up with the same old, same old.
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@ Dauphine
I sometimes tread cautiously when speaking about President Obama because so many of us are very sensitive about that topic. I’m glad you’re not one of them
I agree, I don’t know what kind of system would or could replace the current UNJUST and INHUMANE system of white supremacy — which I think is the absolute worst system ever designed at any time in human history
where people are DEVASTATED for NO OTHER REASON than the color of their skin. It is a very disturbing thought.
That’s like oppressing people because they have a red shirt on instead of a green one OR someone is five feet and another person is five feet three and that’s the BASIS of your oppression
ABSOLUTE INSANITY
I do believe, however, that the UNIVERSE is always seeking BALANCE and when something becomes so OUT OF BALANCE that it threatens life on the planet, that THREAT will be ELIMINATED
Not by man but by GOD, Mother Nature, the Universe, the Creator, and the planet itself.
and it is ALREADY HAPPENING AS I WRITE THIS
Universal Karma is at work among the most UNJUST on the planet.
which explains a high rate of suicide, mental illness, and infertility
it is NOT me who wishes it or makes it so
it is the PAYBACK for the CRIMES COMMITTED, not just against man, but against NATURE itself
Whatever bad things you can say about black people, the one thing you can’t say is we have EVER waged war on Mother Nature
we are NOT responsible for creating
global warming,
biological weapons
immune-destroying, manmade viruses (like HIV/AIDS)
devastation of forests and wild life
genetically modified foods
poisoning the water, air and soil
killing life in the oceans and seas
cloning and destroying life
creating chem-trails or weapons of mass destruction
robbing people of their savings, homes and pensions
and I won’t go any further with that list
I think the point has been made
KARMA is a one helluva B**CH
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@ Trojam
I’ve read your comments here before and agree and share most of your analysis about white supremacy. There is what I’ve noticed though general pessimism about it’s eradication and the role white people play in perpetuating it. I understand it but its not one I would share. I’m a bit more optimistic about that!
So for example while I can applaud Abagond for committing to writing a blog post like this on advice to white people in coming to terms with racism. Its not one I would want to tackle (unless pushed/provoked) myself. Having said that I do believe posts like this are necessary and perform a much need function. Simply for the purpose of offering and providing an option or choice for “genuine” people focused white people who seek open and honest communication and engagement with Black and other people of colour. (I think being people focused – seeing other people the way you see yourself is key here)
Its needed…Just like a checklist would be needed for men who acknowledge the prevalence of sexism in our societies and are sincere in their efforts to come to terms with it. It would be an oversight (on women’s part) just to believe men should be left to their devices to get on with producing this…
A couple of other points I’ve picked up while reading your comments I felt the need to comment about:
While this may well be true for a ruling elite of white people. I don’t think it holds for the vast majority of white people. In fact I would go further and extend that to the vast majority of Black and non-white peoples. They ARE ALL IGNORANT about racism, its effects and how it truly functions.
Both Black, white and non-white peoples THINK they understand this. But I would argue the vast majority don’t!. I don’t think or would expect for one moment that most people could offer a similar analysis to your own on racism=white supremacy.
Such an understanding has to be studied and learned and can’t simply be acquired from just referencing ones own personal experience. White supremacy is too complex and insidious for that you would be bound to have missed some effect.
This is one of the reasons you can expect to obtain a multitude of similar and differing views on the definition of racism – From Black or non-Black regardless.
The problem with arguments based on genetics (as Sam has correctly pointed out) is that they are EXACTLY the same arguments “Race Realists” or so called respected “scientific racists” might use against Black people. It can’t be proven and in fact has been widely dis-proven. – Of course Race Realists would protest otherwise.
Where I would agree with you though is in the biological component and that component can be readily identified as Melanin – The properties of which you could include those ruling white elites of being totally familiar with.
Melanin is more than just biological it has spiritual (metaphysical) properties too. But its true function and purpose has been purposely obfuscated by Western mainstream science specifically to account for the prime observation in your statement above. Melanin Its not something they have been able to fully control yet and they never will…because it adapts…
Finally one other thing,
I can’t agree with the definition of power you are sharing here. If Power was a red shiny ball it would be easy to distinguish those of us who had the ball from those of us who didn’t!
But Power isn’t like that its not a “thing” or commodity. Its a perception!
Power is located in those who are “perceived” to have it. Thats why as you correctly state President Obama although elected and re-elected as America’s first Black president has no real Power. Why?
Because the REAL Power is perceived to lie in the Wall Street Financiers backing him and the people he surrounds himself with.
Of course it doesn’t have to be that way but this is probably how he him self perceives it even though the rest of Black America might see Presidential Power and him otherwise.
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This is a great discussion, I’ve been following and as always, Trojam Pam and Kwamla bring real insight into the constant battles complexities of race.
While perception is reality, the REALITY of power, in and of itself is having advantages over others or the perception of it. And my interpretation of what TrojanPam was saying was that the systemic struggle to control the media, jobs, natural resources, transportation, overall fiat wealth by whites ALL OVER THE WORLD is NOT done haphazardly! It HAS to be intentional and to date, right now, the MEDIA is the biggest perpetrator of worldwide racist/colorism dichotomy! They force white supremacist thinking into your homes, books, music! They must infiltrate to keep the power structure intact.
When you increase numbers of any group of ppl, you influence group thinking and group dynamics–Cornelia, this is where you and Sam will “get lost” if you will. In a group of say 10 white managers in one company, maybe 1 of them may not hold one racist or stereotypical thought about the non whites they manage. Is that 1 person gonna call out the other hiring managers when they ‘ok’ the hiring of some less qualified whiter person over a person of color? A white convicted felon or a black with a degree?
Hell no, they won’t. And so the ‘system’ lives on. White ppl’s privilege of choosing whether or not they want to “take a stand” and risk their own assess is probably one way, I could agree, that they themselves are victims of their own privilege.
Corporations are ppl, right? Well, you obviously can’t have one without the other and that goes indefinitely for racism. One does not function independently of the other. It can’t just be a societal label or idea. It is a reality for all of us and we have given countless examples of it here.
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This comment of mine I had in the Katrina Richardon thread, but it applies here too, imo.
I read the article and was blown away!
However,
The comment section–rinse and repeat! Cognitive dissonance, grammatical ‘explain-aways’ about grammar and the “structure” of her writing…complete WHITE DENIAL!
Some of My favorites: (not in order)
“I am white and I understand the concept about being white as the default position in life. However, much of this essay is so poorly written it was hard to follow. Sorry.”
“I absolutely agree, what strikes just from these ‘conversations’/comment sections when race comes up is how uncomfortable and taken aback most white people are with being ‘subjects’, being observed and *reduced* in the same way non-whites in America are as a matter of course. I think if more white people who have this reaction pondered the disempowering effect they feel in that moment they would get a glimpse of what essays like this are on about, and how it would feel to carry that load everyday since birth.” 🙂
“White people do not care….why can’t you grasp that concept ?
This article wass just another piece of drivel, interspersed with lies. I know many Italians and, believe me, they are damm proud of their heritage and have a culture quite different from the English or Germans who live in the US. Mosty white people are just so tired of the constant whining from minorities that they have just tuned you out.”
“So is the point of this essay to disempower white people?”
“It might have been worth hearing the first hundred times writers of various races voiced the same complaints, but now it’s just tired and trite. It doesn’t add to the conversation in any meaningful way.”
“It’s very tempting to report this writer to the SPCA, but I’m not sure it’s actually considered cruel to beat a dead horse.”
“Wow, this is great satire, I hope.”
*********************
I could really go on with this…but these comments are 2013! 2013! Do you see how plainly this was laid out? How non-threatening and everything else white ppl say they need to “understand” ppl of color and when you DO it? Their privilege still gives them the right to REFUTE! DISMISS YOU (on’ technicalities’) and whatever other messed up generalizations they deem appropriate to offset the guilt!
And so…when I say that sometimes white America is really, really far gone and it would take a spaceship and another entire planet to remove them and make them live with themselves and their ‘privilege’, I mean it. I’m sure some of these ppl have CHILDREN…
and the cycle continues…
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Cornelia/Sam
I’m sorry guys, I don’t know how to grab individual comment links, but I left this message for Cornelia in the “ethnic post”. It was my response to her statement about the “system” and “them/their” pleasure in our fighting over race. As much as some whites would love to take the white, smiling face off of white supremacy and privilege, you simply cannot, not in today’s climate in AmeriKKKa or Europe or wherever else the majority white ppl live. They carry it with them, their supremacist thinking, opinions, “science” and whatever else is spread through well meaning white folks and this is another really messed up issue with 1 or 2 white ppl claiming they are not racist.
***********
Cornelia,
Who are “they?” The ones laughing? Are they the ones that make up the police force, judicial systems, GOVERNMENT, managements and hiring populations, neighbors, doctors, nurses..?
The very people who LOOK AT ME and based on WHAT THEY SEE, proceed to:
beat/shoot/kill me?
deny me a promotion/bank account/loan?
deny me adequate treatment for my physical/mental ills?
buy into EVERY SINGLE negative stereotype about me and then say “get over it” when I dare learn my own history or be PROUD of myself?
Who are “these ppl” that force me and everyone else into a category mostly BASED ON LOOKS ALONE, thereby keeping ‘their’ hands in any and everything I try to accomplish or learn about myself for MY OWN SURVIVAL and mental and physical well being as long as they have eyes?
WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE?? Who set up the hierarchy of RACE and collective ‘color washing’ in the “greatest country on Earth” and then proceed to take this toxic message worldwide….
Whether or not the accumulation of atoms and melanin mean everything or nothing, JUST LIKE ETHNICITY, RACE exists in societal context.
Batman and Superman exist in the Marvel Universe.
The Avengers have superpowers and fight off aliens and “bad guys” and for some reason, we are completely acceptable of these “non-realistic, and physically impossible” facts. People emulate them! Dress up like them! They are not ‘real’!
But just like cognitive dissonance as a means to save your collective psyche when you are always under attack, I AM A BLACK WOMAN FIRST in America.
Consumer, second.
Refusing or ignoring this notion does not benefit me in Amerikkka because I do not make the rules.
It matters.
And I’m not laughing.
******************
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@ Cornlia
You said: “You are also manipulated into believing “we -so called whites- are all the same”
No one is manipulating me. MY opinion is based on what WHITE PEOPLE have done and said.
—
You said: “If your reference is Dr Welsing, then we will disagree for sure, because she bases all her theory on the supposed biological reality of “race”. So of course she believes ALL whites “are like that and you can’t do anything about it”.
—
True, my “reference” does include Dr. Welsing and Mr. Fuller
Dr. Welsing – a MEDICALLY TRAINED PSYCHIATRIST AND GENETICIST – bases her theory in GREAT part to the COLLECTIVE BEHAVIOR of white people worldwide.
Keep in mind that Dr. Welsing is over 80 years old so she has LIVED through the most brutal racial segregation in American history where she had to use separate black washrooms and water fountains and not being able to check a hotel and if she visited relatives in the South she had to sit on the back of the bus.
So her “theories” are not based on the “supposed biological reality”
they are BASED ON HER REALITY AND EXPERIENCES OF AND ANALYSIS OF WHITE PEOPLE COLLECTIVELY.
AS A MEDICALLY TRAINED PSYCHIATRIST
Dr. Welsing – to my knowledge – has NEVER once said, “All white people are alike.” If you think she did please provide a reference.
My point of asking for details as to what white people say about black people when no black people are in the room is to DEMONSTRATE that “racism” is not practiced by a handful of “bad white people” but is INTRINSIC in white culture and mentality.
Hence the ENDLESS racist jokes every white person has heard (whether they admit it or not) and their KNOWLEDGE of just how INTERNALIZED racism in the white psyche
Thank you for sharing your experiences and the racism you’ve witnessed.
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Not too long ago, even then, the commentary associated with this post would have sent me into a paroxysm of wetanschmerz; however, not today. It’s complicated to explain my feelings on a cigarette break now but I’m compelled to later tonight oooh a rational posting on a Friday. Mostly what comes to the forefront is the mission statement of a nonprofit, “noones home until we all are”. Please dont infer any snippyness, snideness, or condescencion from that either. Honestly, outside of work I personally have about zero interaction with white people but maybe this the time to explore albeit how briefly what a rational modality for building bridges could be. Just stayin…
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@ Kwamla
I strive to be optimistic about solving the problem BUT not because white people have changed. I’m not optimistic about that.
I absolutely appreciate this blog and the wide range of topics abagond writes about. I struggle to write a new post a week so I respect anyone who writes several a week!
You said that it’s mostly the white ruling elite of white people understand racism. I definitely disagree.
There is NO WAY a tiny minority of white people could maintain a GLOBAL system of racism/white supremacy without the COOPERATION and PARTICIPATION of the MAJORITY of white people.
Who would the foot soldiers be? The armies that invade other sovereign non-white nations? Who would man the police force, the employment offices, the school boards, the teachers who mis-educate black students, the principles who suspend students, the loan officers who turn you down for a loan, the employees who toss the applications of black and brown job-seekers in the trash, the people who write racist notes on the receipts of black customers, the people who sit on juries (and convict black people on little and no evidence or acquit white police officers who murder unarmed black males and females?
The list is too long for this post. The tiny number of white elites could NOT control the majority of white people unless they allowed them to.
White people are NOT ignorant about racism. White children know who is black and who is white and they know WHITE is better than black and countless studies have demonstrated this in white children as young as FOUR YEARS OLD. (I gave link in an earlier post).
The people who are MOST ignorant about racism are the VICTIMS of racism, otherwise, we might have solved this problem. I think it is wrong-headed to think that the people who are dominating us are MORE ignorant than the people being dominated. I don’t agree with that logic.
You said, “I can’t agree with the definition of power you are sharing here. If Power was a red shiny ball it would be easy to distinguish those of us who had the ball from those of us who didn’t! But Power isn’t like that its not a “thing” or commodity. Its a perception!”
I totally disagree. POWER is NOT a perception, it’s a REALITY.
Power determines who goes to jail and who doesn’t and how long a sentence they serve. Power determine what the currency looks like, and what you can buy with it. Power is deciding the price of GAS based on how much profit you want to make. Power is closing schools and destroying communities and controlling the images of your enemies to make yourself look superior and for them to look inferior.
On that point, we can simply agree to disagree.
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[…] My advice to white people (abagond.wordpress.com) […]
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@ TrojanPam
My apologies to you as this has turned out longer than expected…
I actually don’t think we majorly disagree here. But we do have some misunderstandings.
When it comes racism. What white people understand is their privileged position vis-a-vis racism. They understand the consequences of its affects. What it means for them. But they don’t fully understand the dynamics of it – how it plays out in their own or Black and non-white people’s lives.
Why should they? They spend much of their time in life denying that it exists in the first place! Or equating it to simple prejudice – like preferring tea over coffee.
White people do not need to know or understand the dynamics of how white supremacy works. Just like you or I don’t need to understand how a car engine works. We just need to know how to use it to get us from A-B.
The same holds true for white privilege which is conferred by racism.
Do you believe young white children understand how racism works? They understand what being white and identifying with this means. Its quickly learned because it comes with privileges if you qualify in this description.
Similarly, Black and non-white children quickly learn what being associated with colour means or not being white – it takes away privileges!
I think this is the basic understanding you’ve been at pains to convey and I do get this. I am certainly not denying it.
But what I am saying – and you can tell me if you still disagree with me – is that the vast majority of white people have no clear understandings of how the dynamics of racism operates. Those in controlling and elite positions do!
So to use your analogy of the foot soldiers. These people know how to fight a war; roughly what the war (or propaganda they’ve been told of what the war) is about. But it is the officers, the generals, the higher command who know and understand why the war is fought and propagated in this way. And of course, the higher you go up this hierarchy the more detail is known.
Its not in the interests of the foot soldiers to know about how strategically the war is being fought. So they are kept in ignorance.
But wait…does that mean if they were told and it was fully explained to them why they were fighting a war; and what it would mean long term strategically for themselves, their families and their country. Would they then understand? Perhaps some would… But why would they want or even need to?
The same holds true for racism. Not even ALL the so called “victims” of racism need or want to know and understand its intricate and complex dynamics. They just want to know how they can escape being a victim of it. Which we know in truth they can’t! But thats never stopped anyone from trying anyway!
Oh…I don’t!
If this were not true then why would we as “victims” of racism be complaining? Are we complaining because we TOO wish to have the power to also dominate and control like them? Or are just too dumb to realize they are acting in our best interests after all?
The implication of what you appear to be suggesting in that above statement is that white people know precisely what and why they are doing what they are doing because of some inherent evilness?
I think this would be simplistic logic to suggest.
The ignorance apparent in any peoples who are bent on domination and control over another peoples is one of Spiritual ignorance.
When we accept we are ALL one peoples on the same planet with the same wants and desires. It makes no sense denying one portion of yourself those same wants and desires? Its like the left hand denying the right hand because its “left”. Its still attached to the same body.
Again this is what I am calling “Spiritual Ignorance” And Yes white people do possess this in abundance. But then we ALL do to a degree on this planet.
However, the historical (and continuing) evidence speaks for itself the people most cut off from their own natural Spiritual selves are white people. We all as Black and non-white peoples instinctively KNOW this to be true.
I know you don’t really disagree with me here because ITS BOTH!
Perception is your Reality. And your Reality is determined by your Perception!
So the amount of Power you have is determined by the perception you have of this within yourself which in turn manifests its self as the reality you experience..
We all know the classic Bible story which serves to illustrate this as an easily understood example: David and Goliath….
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@TrojanPam:
Thanks for your opinions and comments. I might try to clarify my take on racism a bit here:
Martin Luther King was allowed to preach and talk and protest as long as he was talking about the plight of the black people. For those in power, he was no treath, he was not a dangerous man at all. Yes, racist like J. Edgar Hoover and KKK saw him as such from the get go, but he was still allowed to talk and walk as long as his take on racism was limited on race issues alone.
The moment he widened his scope, when he started to adress the social issues and preach about social unequality and economical reasons behind those, once he began to talk about the collaboration between white organised crime and the power structure, when he connected the institutionalised racism with money and power structures, he transformed from civil rights preacher to revolutionary. From that moment on, his days were numbered.
Once he started to move white masses, change their thinking, he was dead.
Malcolm X was fire brand preacher and hard on whites, but the system let him do his talkin as long as it was about black/white only. He was not a dangerous for the system. He could rant and rave, from their point of view, as much as he wanted about race. But once he had visited Mekka and saw the white muslims over there, he became dangerous. He went after the same power structure as did MLK. He became dangerous man because he saw the system and the way it used racism. In short, he became a revolutionary thinker and talker. And he died for it.
Anyone who talks about racism without connecting it to the rest of the system can do so as much as they want. You can even promote racial hatred, no problem. The system can make money out of that too. It suits them just fine. But once you connect the racism to the system which uses it, you become dangerous. Once you no longer enforce the racist system of thinking itself, once you really talk about the system and what it does, you become a real treath to it. You are no longer a harmless protester or rioter, you have become a revolutionary. And that is dangerous.
The sytem can react in two ways. It can try to wipe you out, kill you, put you in prison or it can corrupt you. I think the black american millionaires show how that works. They do not put their kids in public schools in black neighbourhoods, they do not live in inner city neighbourhoods, invest most of their wealth into those communities etc. They move to the wealthy neighborhoods and if they are rich enough, they get into the country clubs and golf clubs and where ever. They can buy themselves into those places just like anybody and they are allowed to do so, because they are no longer outsiders or downtrodden. They have become part of the very system.
The system is all about money an power. That is all. Once you are rich enough, you have become part of it, no matter what your color is. Racism is a tool of that system. But once you get enough money, suddendly your “race” matters no more in the upper echelons of the society. That is because the only color that counts up there is the color of money.
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Sugarkiss.
I never said anything else than what you’re saying. I am aware of all of that.
Allow me to try and change what and who I can change. That’s all I’m saying. I don’t need approval, gratefulness or condescendence for that for being “well meaning”. I’m trying to undo what I can. I am not “well-meaning”, I know exactly what I mean. I know who I am dealing with. I know these people (yes these people, these racists that surround me and you). I know what they are capable of. I know I am in a political battle and I know that in specific contexts it can get me killed socially or physically. It cannot do me as much bad as it does you, I know that too. But I have seen how these people can get enraged when I challenge the system they live by.
What do you want me to do ? Give up ? Hell no.
Peace
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Trojanpam
Dr Welsing’s problem is that she doesn’t have that many publications and articles to support her theory (I looked for articles in my University library, online, I found none, true you’ll tell me they are “hidden”). Plus I had never read about her being a geneticist.
She believes there are races, she is very American in that regard. She can believe what she wants, that doesn’t make it scientifically verifiable.
Her experiences and life are sociological tools but not scientific ones. This is not how a scientifically trained professional draws conclusion on things. Personal experience is all about bias. Living in the US is one of the worst experiences one can have and of course, as I said about you too, I can understand that it can lead anyone to think what she and you think.
Dr Welsing doesn’t have to say “all white people are alike”, it is contained in the very fact of believing in “race”. It is exactly what “race” is meant for.
And I agree with you that “is INTRINSIC in white culture and mentality.”
YES, it is a CULTURE. No, it is not NATURE.
I as a person that you would describe as “white” have NEVER participated in “what white people say about black people when no black people are in the room”. That is simply NOT me. But I am still described as white, and that is that I do not accept. Whiteness is the racist state of mind, it is not the Europeans’ nature. It is the culture SOME of them, a few centuries ago, created and enforced to subjugate other people. I have never been in agreement with that.
Again and again, remember you are in a specific cultural context that was built on the racist foundation.
But anyway, I’m repeating myself, and I don’t think I need to.
Peace
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Kwamla
They don’t know they’re learning it, that’s why it works:
“Do you believe young white children understand how racism works? They understand what being white and identifying with this means. Its quickly learned because it comes with privileges if you qualify in this description.”
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Another example how racism is used by the system:
In early to mid 1960’s ever larger part of the black population was becoming more and more politically active and demanding social improvements in USA. Their demand of social equality and social reforms were a direct threat to the system. So how could the system fight back against the ever growing black political power with such a dangerous demands and political ideas?
They began on local levels. First on municipalities and counties dominated by the whites in south and bible belt where the racism was still doing fine. Upholding that racism and channeling it into conservative politics they could and did win important elections of judges and sheriffs, local police chiefs and mayors. They started the action at once by chainging the judicial system, the direction of it. All this happened step by step, quietly, behind the national headlines and big issues.
Next they moved to the state levels, using the same methods. They took over bit by bit the judicial systems in different states, and all the time kept the flame of racism alive and usefull. Instead of the image of humble slave, they began to sell the image of dangerous black; criminal, revolutionary terrorist, crazy junkie, welfare mom etc. On local news and papers at first, here and there, at first. Then in bigger media, one story at the time, one after another.
Once they were ready they began the action.
Young black males began to dissappear into prisons on alarming rate. This was, of course, shown as an evidence of the racist images presented to the public, both black and white. In reality what happened that the courts and judges started to convict black offenders much easier to the prison. When you had earlier times received perhaps a ticket, now you went to jail. One black guy at the time, one after another.
Ten, fifty, a hundred, a thousand. Ten thousand, a hunddred thousand. Million, two million convicted blacks. And why?
None of those guys could no longer vote. In USA a felon loses his right to vote. Because the blacks had demanded changes into the system ifself and were a serious threat to it, something had to be done. They could no longer deny the right of voting so they found another way to eliminate liberal and progressive black voter block: they sent them into the prisons. The black felons lost their right to vote. They lost their political power. One by one.
This is not actually my theory. Black american female professor whose name I have forgotten actually talked in lenght about this in one documentary. She showed how all of this goes hand in hand with the rise of the conservative republicans, right wing, Fox News and right wing talk shows, all the way up to Ronald Reagan and from then on.
That is very present history. It is a fine example how the system operates, how it used the racism to hold on to the power. It simply eliminated millions of black votes by this method. This method of political elimination relied on racism and still does. In order to make it work, in order to send those men and women into prisons, the racism must be in the place. It must be in the air, on tv, in media etc. Then it works like a dream.
Those who most urgently need political power are stripped from it. They are allowed to work for the system but never ever threaten it by voting for the change of the system. Racism is a part of that system on the lower level. It is its hook and smoke screen. It enforces the economical system which is unfair and unequal. That is why it is needed and why it is not allowed to die off.
Hope I will be more clearer by these posts.
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Racism’s manipulative scheme is demonstrated everyday here and elsewhere.
People who believe in “races” think they know what other people think, how they live their life, what they do and don’t do, what they can and can’t be BECAUSE of their supposed “race”.
That is the -unfortunate for us all- genius of racism.
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@ Cornlia,
why won’t you just give up and join your fellow, white folks? what drives you to, rebel and resist?
I am curious to know, what makes you think, the way you do.
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Well Sondis, that’s an interesting remark of yours. And an interesting question.
So, as a so-called “white” person I am supposed to adhere unconditionally to racism and all the privileges it has bestowed, through its great generosity, upon me ?
That is not the way it works.
I’ll NEVER give up, otherwise, knowing what I know and being aware of what I can change (yes, I can, I have already made some people aware of things, who maybe, are going to make other people aware too), otherwise, what’s the point of being on this earth if it is to participate in a system that I loathe ?
I am not racist, I have never believed that we were of different races, and every other experience and encounter I have made in my life, every other observation has proven it to me.
I am a very logical person and also a person who doesn’t accept that other people suffer for the stupid deeds or ideas of others. Is that okay ? Can I be nice ? To me it’s obvious that racism is cruel and amoral (immoral, I never know which one is the appropriate one, maybe it’s both). I cannot accept it.
If you have read my comments above, I have explained how “I do it”. I am extremely serious about fighting the ideology but I cannot do it through the traditional institutional ways, because I know they are controlled and manipulated by the very system they are supposed to fight.
So I do my stuff, hoping that it will change someone here or there. Maybe it will, maybe it won’t. As I said above, I know a few people have learnt stuff through me. And I hope more will. And that’s all at a very modest level because I don’t think I have a particular gift, I’m just “hardworking” when it comes to that.
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@ Cornlia:
Very interesting… Do you have children? if so, do you teach them, “color-blind racism”? ( I don’t see you as black, i see you as a human being ) or do you tell them, that there is nothing wrong in seeing someone as black?, long as you don’t judge them, based on the fact they are black.
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Oh my. That is SO American !!! All this talk about “color-blind racism” is so “conventional”… My son made me laugh with a few of those questions he got at school with all those “white” kids absolutely wanting him to fit in the box they had ready for him ! He was basically ordered to renounce part of his family !
Why do you have to know about me and my family ? What more is it gonna bring YOU ? Anyways…
I have children. Their father is African and has never defined himself as “black”, but as “Bamiléké”. We get along very well because we think the same way, even though we were born in very different cultures. He is a VERY strong man who has been through a lot, in his country of origin and in mine. The worst of what he has been through was in his country because of the dictatorship there (he escaped death). That is the reason why he couldn’t stay there to finish his studies.
So our children know about all the different visions people have of them and the world. We tell them about all there is to know that we know. If they were born in the US, maybe they would define themselves as “black”. And we would let them, because you can’t go against the tide, right ?
But we would still tell them what it means, where it comes from, why it is so. (That makes me think of one book Abagond advised on here: “Why are all the Black Kids Sitting together at the Cafeteria”. It is a VERY American book, very revealing of how racism moulds everything to its image, if I may say).
My son who has been in an American High School for 2 years, has learnt this by himself. And doesn’t really like it. He has friends from all over the place (the world), and very few Americans (“black” or “white”) because both react in the same manner (described in the book). This is not how French kids socialize… He had never had to ask himself questions about all this. He knows he will when he goes back as a young man though. We have told him that as a man, he won’t be viewed as so “cute”, but as potential threat. That will start with the police asking him for his ID for no reason.
My daughter is younger, but she is observing.
We are lucky we have very bright kids. And very nice too. I hope they manage in these cruel societies. We have given them the tools we have at disposal, each with our own experience.
So what’s your diagnosis: are we BAD parents ?
Hum, so can we stop talking about me now and stick to ideas ?
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Correction–she has an entire book of essays published that has in fact been reviewed by her peers via conferences, lectures and her works have been cited numerous times by Africana and African-American scholars.
You may not agree with her, but her integrity within the academic community is outstanding.
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Yeah, I know that one book. And Abagond cited another one recently in one of his posts I think.
That’s impressive… I think we can find other African-American scholars with otherwise impressive publications, can’t we ?
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My advice to Americans. “White” or “Black”. (Because you do express things in the same manner, whether you realize it or not)
Please stop thinking the rest of the world is America.
Please stop telling us what we think.
Please stop telling us what we should think.
Please stop telling us what we must do.
We are big enough and there are long-lasting cultures all around the planet who can live without you. You are not going to save anyone.
And to be fair, I would send the same advice to the French. Who are just as arrogant as a people as the American one.
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@Cornlia you claim you are not “racist” yet you seem to think it is perfectly normal to dictate to Blacks what we should think “racism” is and which Black scholars we should or shouldn’t hold in high esteem!
We do not have to agree with your assessment of “race” or what is “racist” or what is not.
I don’t give a damn if Welsing only wrote “that one book” because she spent 20 plus years researching what she put into that “one book” and not just in America. She also experienced the same behaviors from whites in Europe when she was there. The point is not about how may books she wrote. She has extensive training and field research in her specialty–and even i–a “Black” girl understand that truly intellectual people don’t discount academic discourse simply because it exposes inconvenient truths–no. We find other scholars work to refute it and thus far you have not done exactly what you accuse Dr. Welsing of.
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For the record Abagond, Cornlia’s commentary proves just why Trojan Pam and Sondis and countless other Blacks and Browns of this world deem it useless to talk to self-described whites about racism.
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Correct me if i’m wrong–I thought this post was about Abagond’s advice to white people about listening to Black and non-white people about racism, but notice how it ultimately became about this:
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@ Kwamla
Perhaps, you’re right that many white people (I have no idea how many) have not analyzed the dynamics of racism
but whether white people have fully analyzed racism or NOT that does NOT stop them from practicing from AND from demanding their white privileges at the expense of non-white people.
They do NOT CARE about all the dynamics, they want the system of privilege to continue, and will do what is necessary to maintain it.
Did Jews care if Germans fully understood what Hitler was doing?
I doubt that they wasted any time trying to “understand” their Victimizers.
That is a HUGE mistake that I believe too many black people make instead of focusing on the FUNDAMENTALS:
1. What is it?
2. Who practices it?
3. How do they practice it?
There is no need — in my opinion — to psycho-analyze white people’s behavior to any great degree. I’m not saying that is what you’re doing, I’m saying I think it’s non-constructive
if it quacks like a duck, walks like a duck, and looks like a duck, it’s a doggone DUCK and I don’t care if that duck says it’s a chicken or a goat, I’m going by WHAT I see and WHAT I hear.
The reason they deny racism exists is NOT because they ignorant, it’s because NOT SNITCHING ON OTHER WHITE PEOPLE is part of the White Conduct Code, just like the Blue Code of Silence for cops.
Yes, cops know what other cops are doing to black people but they pretend not to know because it protects ALL cops in case one decides to bash in a black skull.
And by DENYING it, it keeps their victims confused and debating (with each other) over what white people (or cops) know and don’t know.
All I know — not being a white person myself — is they are SMART enough to know how to practice the WHITE CONDUCT CODE, and I have seen this happen from the most UNEDUCATED white person to the most EDUCATED.
I have seen young white people (under the age of 16) follow the code. I have watched white females practice the CODE on me, and I have watched white males at work practice it.
and the MOST important part of the CODE is DENIAL.
As far as complaining, that doesn’t mean we understand racism.
We complain for the same reason ANYONE complains when they are in PAIN.
Just because your stomach hurts and you complain to the person who PUNCHED you and complain to the doctor who treats you doesn’t mean you understand WHY you were punched OR how much damage that punch caused.
Complaining about being mistreated is an INSTINCTIVE and NATURAL reaction to pain.
I would not call it “spiritual ignorance” but more a LACK of TRUE spirituality. Non-white people do NOT lack spirituality, and I suspect that is why white people are VERY QUICK to jump headfirst into every non-white culture and try to adopt the spiritual practices of non-white people because they lack their OWN.
I will agree that it is both perception and a reality. (at least we agree on something tonight! 🙂
good nite!
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@ Cornlia
You said: “Dr Welsing’s problem is that she doesn’t have that many publications and articles to support her theory (I looked for articles in my University library, online, I found none, true you’ll tell me they are “hidden”).
That is HOW racism/white supremacy functions. Of course, the people who CONTROL the educational and professional institutions that PROMOTE white supremacy are not going to validate Dr. Welsing.
Fortunately, some of us (like me) do not consider white people or white institutions to be the FINAL word aka the word of God, and since we are able to read and think, we are also able to ANALYZE INFORMATION and draw our OWN conclusions,
even if white (supreme) people do not agree or approve of those conclusions. And because a white person doesn’t accept her theory, THAT doesn’t make her theory scientifically NONVIABLE either.
Regarding the U.S. and racism, I have talked to and read and receive dozens of emails over the years (which I shared in some of my books) from black people living in the UK and all over Europe and they constantly talk about the racism.
So, I wish white people would please, please, please stop pretending that racism is an American export.
Europe is NOT JUST AS RACIST as any place else.
For example, it is common knowledge that Black soccer players all over Europe have bananas thrown at them and are called names by WHITE people in EUROPE, even when playing for the team that the white people claim to support. (?!?)
Black and non-white people are murdered on a regular basis in Europe and many of them are in prison and in mental institutions.
AGAIN, no matter where you go in the world the GLOBAL system of white supremacy still functions the same way because white people worldwide have a collective tendency to practice racism.
Point blank period.
No, it is PART NATURE — in my opinion — because no matter what “culture” white people come from they still PRACTICE RACISM AGAINST NON-WHITES all over the world in over a dozen languages.
Peace
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@ Sam
I enjoyed reading your post and agreed with some of it but here’s where you and I differ when you wrote the following:
“The system is all about money an power. That is all. Once you are rich enough, you have become part of it, no matter what your color is. Racism is a tool of that system. But once you get enough money, suddendly your “race” matters no more in the upper echelons of the society. That is because the only color that counts up there is the color of money.”
Sorry, I totally disagree with that. MONEY is NOT POWER.
Certainly, black people with money get more “privileges” than poor black people BUT they will NEVER have the same “white privileges” that the POOREST white person receives just for being white.
there is so much evidence, but here’s a short list or “rich” black people
Oprah Winfrey denied entrance into Hermes after hours
Bill Cosby not allowed to buy NBC (which would have given him real power
Tiger Woods tormented for MONTHS over an extra-marital affair in a way that NO WHITE MALE has ever been subjected to
and just recently a European golfer who lost to Tiger Woods said he would “serve him some fried chicken”
Wesley Snipes (actor) sent to PRISON over a tax MISDEMEANOR
President Obama being disrespected in ways a white president would never be treated, for example a FEDERAL JUDGE said Obama’s mother had sex with a DOG and that’s how he was born.
Now, the list is much, much longer of how black people –regardless of income and education are treated in a WHITE SUPREMACY SYSTEM
another example, google Dr. Christian Head, the black surgeon at UCLA —
more PROOF that being “rich” or “educated” or “famous” does NOT protect black people from being treated like a “n*gger”
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@ ALL
I would like to invite anyone interested to take a “Counter-Racism Boot Camp” course
here’s the link
http://racismws.com/2013/05/03/sign-up-for-the-counter-racism-boot-camp/
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ALSO
for those who haven’t heard about a movie called “The Purge” coming out in theaters tomorrow, I posted a YouTube trailer on this page
http://racismws.com/2013/04/13/is-the-purge-movie-a-rallying-cry-for-white-america/
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Sam,
What you’re speaking of makes plenty sense — I agree with you — its ALL about the system called Money.
It’s the same system that keeps majority black/brown countries like mine Poor
We don’t have to contend with any white people, we’re not subjected to the same type of Racism that black Americans deal with but yet,
we are kept stagnant by majority white countries because they are draining the money out of our countries — the same way white businesses drain the money out of black Americans.
I agree with Sondis when he says it makes no sense to talk to white people about Racism because white Americans will not change their views any time soon — why should they– they still control the money and power structure.
I also think many black Americans are fooling themselves if they think that just starting their own businesses and catering to each other will solve the problem.
When my parents opened their first business, it was in a white neighborhood, they stuck a young white women at the front desk, had a white salesman do the promotions and marketing, and once they got financially solid, replaced the girl at front desk with a Jamaican (white people loved the accent), and hired a diverse work staff.
Black Americans would call these “sell-out” tactics but we called it being a “Trojan horse” — which allowed us to suck the money right out of their white community while building up our bank accounts, money which went back to the Caribbean community.
I remember in the 80’s when the Japanese ruled the world and the American companies were falling all over themselves trying to figure out how to beat the Japanese. The Japanese went into their territory and sucked the money out, which went right back to Japan….
the Chinese are now doing the same– they even went a step further and convinced the white corporations to send their business overseas to China.
Power and money is the only thing white people Respect — when black people speak, all white people hear is “blah, blah, blah” — they are not interested in listening to people they feel are inferior and powerless.
Black Americans are going to have to be willing to play the game of “smile in your face, while I stab you in the back and steal you blind” — if not, then they will not be able to financially gain enough strength to challenge the System — the money/power structure.
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@sugarkiss “Is that 1 person gonna call out the other hiring managers when they ‘ok’ the hiring of some less qualified whiter person over a person of color? A white convicted felon or a black with a degree?”
uh… yeah ok back to planet earth, ah the whiter word again, that happened to me the other day
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my head’s not in the right place for this, my 2 years of social competence training was pretty much defeated in like 3 days by the “THE GREAT DEBATE BETWEEN THE RACES?” group on fb, which has subsequent gone down in flames, i don’t want to make it worse, just don’t forget there is some of us so-called ‘white’ people that will be around and wish to have a pleasant co-existence, that is all.
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Based on this advice, I plan to delve more into my European ethnic roots, and also instill in my children an awareness and pride in their heritage, culture, etc. I will also strive to learn more about the great damage and long-term demographic challenges to people of European descent from unrestricted mass immigration. I will also work to become more immune, and help other white people to be more so, in response to representatives of non-white groups who seek to manipulate contemporary white people based on historical guilt over events centuries ago into supporting a political and social agenda clearly not in their collective interests. Thanks again!
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I am sorry I just don’t buy the whole premise that if your country becomes rich and powerful white people will respect you.
1. China, we all know there are two politically powerful communist countries, China and Russia (although Russia is now a “socialist” country) and neither one is United States’ friend. Yet, who gets the most demonized portrayal by the media, China. Which doesn’t make sense since considering United States’ relation with Russia is just as conflicted as the one with China. Russia is definitely funding Iran’s rush to attain nuclear weapons, Russia was backing the Syrian government in its determination to kill its own people, and the reason America government was just calling Hugo Chavez names from a distance was because he was “chummy” with Russia. Yet there is no “Russia is the enemy” propaganda.
2. India’s economy is booming, and its middle class is growing, and the country is becoming politically more powerful, yet that didn’t stop a white man from bombing a Sikh temple. The incident was dully reported and was out of white America’s mind by the end of the week. Let’s not forget the gang rape incidents that have been making news lately. As horrible as those incidents were, Indian women have been dealing with the type of vicious attacks for centuries, and nothing has been done. But Indian society is rallying, protesting against them in incredible numbers so there is hope that changes would be made to protect women more from these violent attacks. Surely that should have been the perspective of the news coverage. Surely, it could have been connected on how America is fighting the crime of rape, and still needs to fight the crime of rape. But I guess rape is not such a major problem in the States.
3. Japan has been one of the top 5 wealthiest country for over forty years, and have good business relations with United States. But that did not stop white Americans from using racial slurs on twitter and Facebook simply because Japan’s women soccer team beat them in the final of the
2011 Women’s World Cup.
Despite these three countries ranked in the top 5 wealthiest in the world. White America respect for their people is SUPERFICIAL, in fact I would say its only skin deep.
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@ Dauphine
I agree, America’s “respect” for ANY non-white nation is largely for show
because BOTH India and Japan are STILL colonies under white domination.
That’s why Japan has begged and begged the U.S. to remove their military bases BUT Japan cannot force the U.S. to do it and so the bases remain
Remember, Japan LOST the war. I think most people forget that.
Once you lose a WAR, you have been CONQUERED and your nation will be CONTROLLED — no matter how it looks from the outside
That is also why there are TWO Koreas — North and South — after the Korean war (initiated by white supremacist) divided ONE country, creating two warring factions.
another WAR where the SPOILS of war (Korea) were divvied up and Japan gave up “ownership” of Korea after they LOST the war.
ultimately, China will have to go to war with the U.S. and I believe BOTH sides know it
the money the U.S. owes China (with no intention of paying it all back) may be one of the triggers
the other trigger may be the escalation of the Syrian conflict by the U.S. — and what that means to the entire region, especially Iran.
of course, there is NO respect between the U.S. and ANY non-white nation.
and when you look at the wars after WW II you will see nothing but non-white nations — that NEVER attacked the U.S. being warred upon.
it’s the same old strategy of colonialism that has plagued the planet for the last four hundred years.
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“TrojanPam,
ultimately, China will have to go to war with the U.S. and I believe BOTH sides know it
the money the U.S. owes China (with no intention of paying it all back) may be one of the triggers”
Linda says,
will never happen because the US FEARS China and Russia
I don’t know if you remember how it was back in the 70’s and 80’s and the American propaganda of how the Russians and Chinese were the beasts from h’ll and will destroy America…
how is it, that the USA did everything in their power to bring down communist Russia but now, they continue to kiss both Russia and China’s a’ses — their ideological enemies.
@ Dauphine
I thought the goal for black people was to “flip the script” and get ahead and attain power — not make friends with white people…
and what the US government says to the American people is Definitely not what they say behind closed doors — that’s why China owns the US.
white American people can say what they want but they are making China rich and the US government is dancing to China’s tune…what more could the Chinese want.
They get more respect as Enemies of the State than black Americans do as citizens…so they must be doing something
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@dauphin:
Russia is not a socialist country at all, it is very very brutal capitalist country where the power structure is clearly to be seen for any one who wants. BiG money and big politicians rule it.
China is also a dictatorship and communist/socialist only in speeches. It is simply a dictatorship which brutally smashes every worker who dares to interviene its money making schemes. It also smashes farmers if they do not move out, hand over their villages or fields for foreign or domestic companies for what ever reason.
@trojanPam:
Thanks for comments. I try to answer on some of them.
American racists and other racists all over the world, the ones who duly buy into the ideology, naturally will use racial slurs and behave the way they behave. But in the system, once you get rich enough, it does no longer matter INSIDE THE SYSTEM who or what you are.
The rich and the powerful do not like each other. As a matter of fact, USA is currently fighting EU but it is economical war so nobody pays any attention. Germans spy US companies, american intelligence agencies act for the big busines, so-called friends steal and cheat and try to trick each other, chinese and russian secret services are hacking companies and state bureus all over the world etc. They do not like each other, neither do the super rich individuals.
Being IN the system does not mean that somebody likes you or respects you as an individual or because of your natural abilities, They don’t mean anything. What counts is money. I may hate you, I may try to kill you, but if you have enough money, I respect you and recognise you as a fellow rich person, a person of wealth and power. That is all.
The sysem which racism is part of is not a happy family or society of mutual respect. It is a war zone where largest of the predators recognise each other and size up each other, and wipe out any one weaker fool enough to get in to their way. Smaller beast try to grow into big beasts and these try to stay on top of the mountain. And this is INSIDE the system. This is the norm of that system. It is predatory, savage and violent and ruthless and brutal. It is not about any humanistic values or morals. The black are not respected/disliked because of their skin color but by their wealth and business acumen. Are they beasts or prey, this is how the other rich size them up. Nobody likes anybody in that world.
Just like the companies advertise themselves, the movers and shakers of the system may appear nice. They behave well, act reasonable, speak coherently, do all the right things, look clean, neat and healthy, but that does not stop them to give out an order which will destroy a city of 100 000 people when they close factories, call out loans, cut the funding etc. Because for them, the people, the small people like you and me, do not mean a thing.
It has been estimated that around 3500-4500 individuals at present form the current web of high finance. Add some 5000 to 10 000 sueprrich, and there you have the the biggest beasts. The Rotschild family fortune is estimated recently being as 100 trillion dollars. There are few in that legaue, but there are some. In that company even billionaires look small.
As for Japan and american military bases, Germany kept them too. Germany was occupied as well for decades. But here is the thing: Japan and Germany, as states, at first could not do anything for the occupation. But pretty soon they realised that the american troops were there to stop other bigger predator, USSR, to move in. And while the americans believed that they controlled those lands, both were free to consentrate to their ecomonical war, even against USA which was paying all the protection. Those military bases in Germany and Japan did cost billions of dollars for US taxpayers. Still do. And that is just fine with Japan because you guys pay the bills. And that is the system at work.
I think you are wrong if you believe that “whites” control India. It is too big and also there are too big indian companies and too rich indian people to be controlled. It is the system they have now part of which controls India. Just look at what they did just recently: India and China are trying now to create a commercial are between them. Why? So that they would have controlled markets for their production and commerce in tune of 2-3 billion people. No european or american company controls that. It is the chinese and indian super rich and big businesses which do that.
Sometimes we forget in the west how big companies and how rich people there are in so-called developing countries. We are not told about them. The system does not want us to see that. Why is that? Racism? No. THE SYSTEM DOES NOT WANT YOU TO KNOW THAT IF USA DID NOT HAVE ITS NUCLEAR WEAPONS IT WOULD JUST LIKE BRAZIL OR ANY OTHER COUNTRY.
The system wants you to believe that being american or european you are somehow more rich than indians. They want you to believe that they control those lands, the world. Why? So that when they give you an order, you obey because if they can control India or Japan, then how can I resist…
Japanese, the indian and the chinese inside the system know the real score and do not care about you or me or racism at all. They know how weak and vurnable our countries are and they are already smelling blood. The old kings of the hill are not what they used to be. The fight has already begun but it is inside the system, between those In it.
Our medias propaganda is not meant for them, not to foreigners, it is for us. It is a make believe intented to fool you into believing that your life is ok, that you are not poor, that you live high quality life, that you have better health care than those poor africans etc. which is a lie.
There are roughly 23 000 000 adults in USA who can not read or write. Some few hundred families own over 80% of total net wealth of USA. That is roughly 10-40 000 people. The rest divide up the 20%. So from all the wealth, money, buildings, companies, cars, what ever, few thousand own most of it. 200 000 000 people divide up the rest, the 20%. There are millions of americans without any health care. Without any pensions. Housing. Millions are in prisons. Facts and figures which make USA a country just like Brazil. The only difference is the nuclear weapons and perhaps the military. In every other way, USA is no different from Brazil.
Mloney and power. They are tied togheter and racism is part of that package. It is a useful tool for this system.
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Well well well….. This post and the following comments have got some real hate and venom attached. I won’t mention any names… you know who you are.
Abagond started out with some good advice to white people, however there is a line that can’t and shouldn’t be crossed in that advice. He said we should just sit back and listen. So if someone comes up to me and says “Your mom is a whore” and they are a “Person of color” (and you know I hate that term because it’s bs) should I say “Well Abagond says we white people need to cower and listen no matter what”?
Some of you have gone there. I won’t go into it because it seems like it falls on deaf ears at times….. figure it out.
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@Linda
I never said anything about how black people should try to become friends with white people. What I did say was that even when nations of “color” have money and power it will not get them respect, which was what others were implying. Also I don’t think that respect means being wary of another country’s economic,military, political power. It’s like saying you respect the gun a person is pointing at your head, which are what those are, weapons. So the US, Russia and China have big enough guns to do quite enough damage to each other. So when the United States are being careful on how they handle the Chinese and the Russian government that is not respect, that is self-preservation. So yes, us “blacks” should try and certainly will get ahead in the game but let’s not delude ourselves into thinking that the weapons that we would then hold in our hands will give us respect as a “people”.
@Sam
Sure both of Russian and Chinese economies are capitalistic in nature but both of their governments work in similar ways. Putin and his faction have that country by the “balls” so to speak. Putin had more than enough power to manhandle the Russian government into changing its constitution just so he can be president again. Russia is a democracy in name only, they were communist country and they still think and behave like a communist country.
Again I still don’t buy that money and power is the answer to remove racism from our world. Let me use Latvia as an example, this is a country that has been under foreign rule from the 13th to the 20th century. The country has never been politically powerful, never been rich. I doubt most people outside of Europe has even heard of it. Still, if a Latvian were to move to the United States, and even though he or she might a strange accent when speaking English, the person can assured that he or she can live their life, as long as they follow the rules, with minimal harassment, and when the second generation is born their “American-ess” will never be questioned. Something that Chinese Americans, Japanese Americans, Indian American has yet to achieve despite their ancestral countries power and money, despite living in America for generations.
So what type of power and money are you talking about when it is limited to inside the countries borders? Privileges that doesn’t even trickle down its descendants who live outside the country. White people know about Japan, they know about technological innovations, they know about their wealth, but it didn’t stop some white Americans from slurring Japanese girls just because their butts got beat. Although, you’re probably right that the Japanese elite probably didn’t give a damn, why would they care? They’re protected by their money and power, but I bet you those girls families, supporters, and the common people of Japan had a very different perspective.
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@ Linda
If you’ve been watching the events unfold in the so-called Middle East.–especially in Syria– it is clear (to me) that the U.S. — even after being warned by Russia AND China —
is VERY close to provoking a war with Iran — which will draw both Russia and China into the conflict
If and when Syria falls, this will become patently clear what I am talking about
(I never underestimate the people who love waging war, they will risk EVERYTHING for more money and power and control of more resources)
Of course, this is my opinion and we can always agree to disagree
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@trojanpam i agree syria is a proxy war, and is sort of crystallizing as stress fault in the region, so to speak, but how can you say it has not fallen? because assad holds damascus? it is a shooting gallery, no a proving ground, with civilians as targets over there. Special forces testing all kinds of stuff over there, handing out weapons to anyone with two hands.
obama has done quite well holding the israelis back on iran, north korea backed down, this whole thing here is going to be academic once someone pops a nuke.
and that is a really good analogy here for this thread, we can’t get the chinese to disarm, to rally their citiziens, maybe some of the old school hardliners ie post-soviets like really hate americans, but russia has many problems in common with us, eg. terrorism and organized crime.
china needs us as a marketplace, and they trade with iran for oil and gas, there are a lot of complex intricacies that make it a little deeper than what you are saying here.
back to balfour, again and again, those people are all dead who signed that treaty, and it is our legacy, as people here on planet earth… we can squabble and yell at each other or try to make some sense out of this whole mess.
*sigh* ‘pearls before swine’, well they will pass them down from generation to generation but the only thing that could possibly happen is one of them will crack a tooth
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@ Sam
I appreciate your argument but it is UNDENIABLE that a GLOBAL system of white supremacy has dominated much of the planet. Just because we can’t always see the hands of the white supremacist puppet-masters doesn’t mean they don’t exist
White supremacy is as much about COLOR as it as about MONEY.
By dominating and oppressing non-white people who currently LIVE in the most resource rich nations, that is a GUARANTEE of making MORE MONEY off their resources AND their slave labor
Size has NOTHING to do with it. Look at the CONTINENT of AFRICA, which is currently under attack by the white supremacists who are attempting to RE-COLONIZE African nations that won their FREEDOM from the British, French, Italians and Portuguese.
that is a GLOBAL WHITE SUPREMACY SYSTEM
Look at South Africa – ruled (and still is ruled) by a minority of white supremacists — who to FOOL the black MAJORITY — released a black man (Nelson Mandela from PRISON) to be the SYMBOLIC president all while the white minority still RULES
that’s why they had RIOTS last year in the mines because the black people are still terribly exploited and mistreated MINING their OWN RESOURCES and getting NONE OF THE WEALTH in return
that is a GLOBAL WHITE SUPREMACY SYSTEM
Look at the United States: approximately 300 HUNDRED MILLION PEOPLE – many of them WHITE — being DOMINATED by a few HUNDRED white elites
why don’t we throw off the rule of the white minority elites?
Because we are being ruled by a GLOBAL WHITE SUPREMACY SYSTEM
And everywhere you go in the world, the MINORITY ALWAYS CONTROLS THE MAJORITY
from England, to France, to Spain, to Greece, to the U.S., to Mexico
There is NO ONE on this planet that can make a convincing case (to me)
that we are NOT currently watching the DEVASTATION of the GLOBAL WHITE SUPREMACY SYSTEM on nations of COLOR.
like Syria, Egypt, Iraq, Afghanistan, Africa, Brazil, Mexico, Haiti, etc.
NO ONE because there is NO EVIDENCE of this system attacking WHITE/EUROPEAN nations since the end of WW II
That alone is SPEAKS VOLUME
and I would STRONGLY ADVISE any black and non-white person reading this to think about it and to NOT be fooled by the argument that
“Money erases skin color because it’s all about the money”
because most of you have seen just the opposite, I bet, where COLOR trumps all the cards in ultimately determining HOW you will be treated.
Just ask President Obama who was literally FORCED to apologize by personally calling him on the phone (an UNPRECEDENTED action by a president!)
and inviting that white male civil servant COP to “have a beer” just because Obama said, “…The police behaved stupidly…”
AND ask Harvard Professor Gates — AFTER being arrested in his OWN HOME — who was forced to sit down with Obama and that white cop who NEVER apologized and “…have a beer..”
if that wasn’t a CLEAR DEMONSTRATION that the white male civil servant cop’s SKIN COLOR TRUMPED even the COMBINED title of the “President of the United States” and “Harvard Professor”
because Obama’s and Gate’s skin was the WRONG COLOR
I wrote two posts about the Obama and Gates incident and whether the U.S. is a CASTE or a CLASS system for those who care to check it out
http://theblackcodefiles.com/2012/10/11/definitions-workshop-4-a-guest-post-by-trojan-pam/
http://theblackcodefiles.com/2012/10/13/when-caste-vs-class-collides-a-follow-up-to-the-definitions-workshop-4-a-guest-post-by-trojan-pam/
So, in the end all we can do is agree to disagree, Sam, because to me, the EVIDENCE of a GLOBAL SYSTEM OF WHITE SUPREMACY is overwhelming and undeniable
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@ dave
I do not mean if they make personal remarks. I am talking about defending white people as a whole, if they say bad things about white people in general. Many white people have this need to Control Reality, which shuts them off from hearing anyone but themselves and Approved Opinions. In my experience at least 80% of white people, both online and off, are like that. They are unwilling to shut up and seriously listen. Because their Fragile White Ego is more important than anything. Anything.
And if they are calling your mama a whore, then you were probably being a douche, so even there a moment of quiet self-reflection is in order.
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Could the international analysis on this blog be anymore amature than you see by the commentors on here? People who really have no idea what is really going on behind the scenes in the higher up places, or the history of what happened?
American thinking?
Only waging war on black and brown people (what about the bombing of Dresdin? or how we are reminded of bombing Mira’s country)
Higher ups all gathered in a plot to push racism?
Capatalism causes racism?
Then please explain this from the commies:
“In his book, Sex Thugs and Rock’n’Roll: Teenage Rebels in Cold War Germany, Fenemore describes the inherent racism which prevailed in postwar East Germany.
In 1954, he writes, one local newspaper argued that “the decadent contortions of the jazz dancer are like those of an African witchdoctor … any girl who gives in to such revolting forms of dancing need not wonder when she is called a Veronika.”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2011/dec/02/ruth-hohmann-first-lady-east-german-jazz
or the racism in Cuba, or the banning of jazz throughout much of the communist world ,in the early 50’s
Capatalism is not the fundimental cause of racism
but great advice, Abagond
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@ v8driver
Who said: “i agree syria is a proxy war, and is sort of crystallizing as stress fault in the region, so to speak, but how can you say it has not fallen?”
ME: I fear you might be right and that the warmongers are waiting for just the right time to do whatever it is they plan to do. The “special forces” (foot soldiers of white supremacy) are deliberately undermining the RULE of the people and their chosen government, the same that has happened in nations of color ALL over the planet.
You said: “Obama has done quite well holding the israelis back on iran, north korea backed down, this whole thing here is going to be academic once someone pops a nuke.”
ME: Obama is SIMPLY TAKING ORDERS from (and is a puppet of) the same people who control Israel, which is just a front for aggression into the non-white so-called “Middle East” and an Israeli government official SAID as much in an article, and I paraphrase,
“we’re not worried about Obama, we control him”
does anyone realistically believe that President Obama — a black man — is giving marching orders to the most powerful white people in the WORLD — the same ones who nominated, financed, and (s)elected him?
It is well past TIME to let go of that FICTIONAL TALE and deal with REALITY (in my opinion)
Yes, China needs a marketplace, but I suspect the UNRAVELING of the economic engine pumping US consumer dollars to China has already begun and we will begin to see factory jobs returning to the U.S. once the elites have gotten the wages here REDUCED by bringing in MORE immigration and destroying MORE unions.
It will NOT be Iran who initiates a war. Iran hasn’t attacked another nation in HUNDREDS of years so I have NO idea why anyone thinks Iran is the aggressor (???) while it is OBVIOUS (or should be) who is the most aggressive force on the PLANET
I believe (unfortunately) that war between the U.S. and China and Russia is inevitable because the ONLY wars left to WAGE are resource wars, and the global white elites are rolling the WAR DICE for the entire planet
and are willing to wage nuclear war and devastate the planet in the process.
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@ B.R.
Here’s a tip: Just because you disagree, doesn’t mean you’re correct or more mature.
We are all on this blog discussing our “opinions” courtesy of abagond (and his extreme tolerance of us)
moving on…
Can you name ONE European nation that NATO or the U.S. has attacked since WW II? If you can, I’ll admit I was incorrect about that.
As far as capitalism causing racism, the two are undeniably linked, the MOST PROFITABLE example of “capitalism” being the TransAtlantic Slave Trade (which led to 400 years of chattel slavery in the U.S.)
even Adam Smith, the so-called “Father of capitalism” in DEFENSE of continuing the enslavement of African people during the TransAtlantic slave trade said:
“Labour was the first price, the original purchase. It was not by gold or silver, but by labour, that all the wealth of the world was originally purchased.” (Adam Smith – 1723-1790)
that being said, I never said all the atrocities in the world were white against non-white but the current war machine is focused on non-white nations with RESOURCES
deny it all you want. The evidence is EVERYWHERE
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NATO bombed Bosnia in 1995 and Serbia in 1999.
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@ Dave
maybe you ca consider this post as part of a 12 step program (for whites) to help eliminate the system of white supremacy and replace it with a system of JUSTICE for ALL THE PEOPLE (white and non-white) on the planet
and the first step being
WE MUST TELL THE TRUTH ABOUT WHAT IS HAPPENING even if it makes us feel bad or hurt our feelings. or feels like an attack on white people
This post is NOT just about white people “coming clean” AKA telling the truth about a white system of oppression that they have participated in AND benefited from
this is ALSO about black (and non-white) people acknowledging our PITIFUL CONDITION under the system of white supremacy and that we have NOT done our JOB in understanding it AND helping to DISMANTLE it
what I have discovered — and I’m only speaking for myself — is
both WHITES and BLACK/NON-WHITES show an repugnance and a resistance to dealing with the TRUTH about racism
black people will often PRETEND that we are powerful because we have some consumer dollars and a “first black president’ when in reality, those “black” dollars still come from white people (and acknowledging that FACT makes us feel bad aka powerless
However to CHANGE a BAD situation into a BETTER situation we must START BY TELLING THE TRUTH ABOUT THAT SITUATION
Just like an ALCOHOLIC going into a 12 step program MUST START BY TELLING THE TRUTH by admitting he or she has a PROBLEM
that he or she is an ALCOHOLIC (or a racist or a white person who benefits from white privileges at the expense of non-white people
OR he or she is a non-white person who will always be less powerful than any white person WITHIN a white supremacy system until this system is dismantled
Bottom line, the TRUTH is not supposed to make you “feel good,” it’s supposed to make you “be good”
and I believe that once we ALL embrace what we KNOW to be true, we will become STRONGER and more able to finally SOLVE the problem of racism/white supremacy once and for all
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@ abagond who said: “NATO bombed Bosnia in 1995 and Serbia in 1999.”
appreciate the correction
what I’ve noticed is some Serbian people are fairly dark and are reputed to have some African (Moorish) and Arab ancestry and by some definitions of “whiteness” may not technically be considered “white” by the “most white” people.
I have noticed that among the Eastern Europeans there seems to be some distinction between them and more “northern” white tribes and definitely some CASTE distinctions depending on how “dark” they are and whether they have visible African ancestry
and there appears to be some differences in how the “darker” Europeans are treated VS the “whiter” Europeans (especially the WASPS)
and the way the Greece (a dark skinned European nation) economic and banking system was systematically LOOTED by their paler European tribes
of course, I could be incorrect
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@trojan Pam:
This is very interesting but perhaps this should continue in Open Thread? Anyways, I try to answer as best as I can.
Serbians are not any darker than any other slavic nation in former Yugoslavia. Actually, even hungarians have more dark haired people than the serbs and they belong to the fenno-ugric stock. I doub very much there is moorish or african DNA traces in serbian population, no more than in any other slavic nation.
Bulgarians and romanians are much more darker people, black hair being a dominant feature in those countries but that comes from turkish influence from 1500’s up to 1700/1800’s.
The Greece economic collapse was unfortunately made by corrupt greek polticians. One former primer minister was asked how come his 93-year old mother had 500 million euros on her bank account and the former leader said that mother saved the money. That was accepted as an valid explanation. When the Geek national economy collapsed, after its coffers were looted by its own politcians and elite, they seeked memebership in euro zone.
Greece gained entry to the euro zone by 2 billion dollar loan from Lehman Brothers (yes, that Lehman Bros of 2008). Greece used this money to fix its books so it would quailify. Why big US investment bank would lend that money to almost broke country? To gain entry into to the euro group. Why? So that they could extort money from all the euro zone countries.
German, British, french and American banks use Greece as a means to extort money from all euro countries. Greece has none. So the countries who are currently robbed are not Greece or Spain or those, but the ones who still have the money. Like mine. The big international banks have already stolen over 1000 billion euros, none of which has gone to Greece or any other bankrupt state. We give money to support the economy of Greece on paper and it just goes trough Greece straight into those banks.
So in euro crisis it is these international finance institutions, private banks which are robbin the whole Europe via euro zone. Not the “white northern” countries robbin the “darker southern” countries. In one of the banks one black broker caused over 4 billion dollars worth of losses for his customers. Nobody knows weather that money was stolen or were it did dissappear but guy handeling the practicalities, doing the actual trading, was a black bankster. So there was at least one black banker who had his hands on billions of dollars which dissappeared. I doubt if the color of the skin was the deciding factor why this man would have been trusted to control such wealth or scam, which ever it was. I think he did what he did because he was the best guy for that job.
In China racism is very much alive and well, actually it is getting stronger as the economy is more and more “freed”. It also shows that racism is a tool in this type of economic system. It is needed to create the enviroment for this type of money making. Racism creates the basic perception that some people are doomd to be oppressed, out, poor etc. There fore a poor white man can always think he is not in that bad hole as a poor black person. Racism also makes them hate each other for no other reason than the color of their skin, which is excately why racism is needed by the system.
In traditional chinese racism they see themselves as the real whites. European, the nordic blue eyes blonds are known as pink devils, because in chinese eyes wwe are pink, not white. Them come the other non asians in descending order down to the africans. Some years ago there was a fire in univeristy campus in Beijing. The fire fighters put down the fire on all the others but on one building and when foreign journalists asked why they let it burn, the fore fighters explained that africans live there. In their eyes they were not worthy.
Racism is not about the money alone. It is about the power. It is about the money and the power, both. In order to get power or money, the system uses racism. It uses all the tools in its kit. War is one option. When the Twin Towers collapsed one bankster openly stated on tv: “When I saw those towers comin down, I knew we would make a killing that day on markets.”
He did not care what happened to his home town, his own country. The people in the towers. Who did or why? He knew that he could make a lot of money with that.
This is the mentality in the system. “I can make a ton of money utilising racism here,so I will”. Period.
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Like William “Big Bill” Tweed famously said more than 100 years ago: You can always hire another half of the poor to kill the other half.
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“Linda,
If you’ve been watching the events unfold in the so-called Middle East.–especially in Syria– it is clear (to me) that the U.S. — even after being warned by Russia AND China —
is VERY close to provoking a war with Iran — which will draw both Russia and China into the conflict”
Linda says,
Yes, I am watching. I’ve actually had this conversation with other people the other day. My opinion: been there, done that!
The USA has been down this road before many times in the past, that’s why I mentioned the 70’s and 80’s … so for me, same old song and band
After the fiasco called Vietnam, where the USA learned they are Not invincible and can be defeated — they became more “reserved” on how they managed conflict — such as funding the Afghan “rebels” who were fighting Russia in order to help bring Russia down — and we see how well that worked out.
The USA does what it has to, for “financial” self-preservation — no matter how it looks on the surface
I’m more interested in what the USA is promising Russia and China (and Israel) in their behind the scenes backyard dealings, in order to get Russia and China to go along while everyone pretends that they’re willing to go to war over Syria.
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@ Sam
The Moors (Africans) can be traced all over Europe AND Asia. In fact, they have found so-called “Negroid” remains in Southern China, and recently some Chinese scientist said the first Chinese were black.”
It appears (to my eye) that much of Eastern Europe has non-white ancestry, from the dark-skinned Greeks and Italians and Spanish, to Romanians, Gypsies, Turkish, and some Serbian people.
I do believe there is some whites who believe these darker Europeans are not authentically “white.” Even more recently the “Boston bombers” are being described by some whites as “not really white people.”
Many white people also vehemently resist the idea of Moors (Africans) ancestry being the REASON so many southern and eastern Europeans have dark or black hair, be it curly, wavy or kinky, and tanned or dark complexions, and the dark or black eyes but I believe this is a plausible explanation for their appearances
AND for why they are treated differently than the paler white, light haired and light eyed white tribes in Europe. They may call it Turkish, or whatever, ANYTHING but call it what it probably is:
An INFUSION of African genetics, something that seems to strike fear in many white hearts, to acknowledge that the Moors conquered parts of Europe and were the FIRST people to travel all over the planet AND that the Moors are BLACK/African people.
—
Regarding the Greece collapse, you can trace that back to Goldman Sachs and the fraudulent mortgage paper that was sold all over the world and caused most of the collapse.
Of course, Greece has corrupt politicians. All nations are run by corrupt politicians (including the U.S) but I believe the people pulling the GLOBAL banking system strings are the SAME people who engineered the collapse here
Which is why I call it a GLOBAL SYSTEM OF WHITE SUPREMACY
Speaking of that “black broker” who supposedly stole over four billion dollars, you can be SURE he wasn’t working for himself OR outside the control of the people who “allowed it” and probably got the lion’s share.
It is difficult for me to believe that any white OR non-white person can “take” or “hide” four billion dollars unless the most powerful people ALLOWED it and ORCHESTRATED it.
Where would this black broker hide his loot? Under his mattress? In a savings account? (no sarcasm intended here, just asking)
Of course, he didn’t act alone, couldn’t have taken that much money without the help of people who control the banking and money laundering institutions
and was probably a black scapegoat used to make it appear that blacks are just as liable for the financial crimes of the white elites.
Case in point: President Obama, who is and will be blamed for things he has NO control over. He is just a black pawn in the white supremacy global agenda aka a BLACK SCAPEGOAT.
UNLESS people actually believe that a black male came out of nowhere and took the power and control from the most powerful white people in the nation (sure he did).
That being said, am I saying black people cannot be corrupt? Of course not. I am saying that NO black person is in charge in a white supremacy system.
Whatever that black person does or doesn’t do, he or she is taking direct orders from a more powerful white person.
again, we can agree to disagree.
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@ Sam
that was a great quote you posted — and unfortunately, very true:
Like William “Big Bill” Tweed famously said more than 100 years ago: You can always hire another half of the poor to kill the other half.
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@ Linda
that’s a very interesting take you have on what is happening internationally
although I disagree that anyone is “pretending” that they are willing to wage war on Syria — because they are ACTUALLY doing it as I write this.
and the proof of this WAR will be the official announcement that Syria has fallen and now it is time to “deal” with Iran
and then the REAL THIRD WORLD WAR will begin in earnest
of course, I sincerely hope you are right and I’m wrong
I would love to eat my proverbial hat over that one
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Trojan Pam, I can bring in a bunch of links of communist countries that banned jazz dancing for racist reasons, muslim countries that banned samba dancing. if you dont want to look at the quote I brought in, you are in serious denial…and your take on violence is interesting…dont you know the SDS fiasco in Nyak New York and the Simbean Liberation Army in California were pathetic and severly hurt the cause and guarenteed the conservatives victories in elections…you dont know the lives you could ruin with a violent reaction…including yours
you sure are hemming and hawing about how to classify Serbs…all you are doing is trying to push world history into your political agenda, twisting aroudn what ever you want….racism is not because of capatilism, it could come from anywhere..people superimpose their racist beleifs as they practice capatilism, communism and fundimental religions
No I dont think Im any more mature, I just know I dont know what is really going on behind the scenes and that quite a bit of history given here is one sided
Take on any personal philosophy you would like to battle against racism, but, if you are going to put out agendas on a public blog that have misinformation, you need to expect to be corrected
Linda, your take on South America, principly Brazil is , not correct…right today at this time, Americans do more business with Brazil, by Brazil selling manufactured goods, while China is buying up minerals and raw goods…manufactured goods is better for the economy than selling raw goods…and I see TV shows in my state thay are praising their manufacturing companies making shoes and clothes and the jobs that they create sending these manufactured goods to the USA, just saying they suck out the money, is not exactly what is happening right now
its just more complex than people are making it out to be…
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“Dauphine,
Also I don’t think that respect means being wary of another country’s economic,military, political power. It’s like saying you respect the gun a person is pointing at your head, which are what those are, weapons. So the US, Russia and China have big enough guns to do quite enough damage to each other. So when the United States are being careful on how they handle the Chinese and the Russian government that is not respect, that is self-preservation. So yes, us “blacks” should try and certainly will get ahead in the game but let’s not delude ourselves into thinking that the weapons that we would then hold in our hands will give us respect as a “people.”
Linda says,
It’s not about Respecting the person holding the gun — It’s about respecting What the gun can do — it’s respecting the fact if you pull the trigger, the gun can do a lot of damage — the gun is a “game changer”
As far as respect as a ” people” in white majority countries… you’re right, they will still be prejudice and say disrespectful things, like what just happened to Tiger Woods and how the Italiens talk about Mario Balotelli — but keep in mind, Tiger and Mario are playing in a still, very much, white dominated game.
But, I’ve seen how the change and behavior when white people are no longer the dominate ones, when they are not in the majority…they sing different tunes and learn to respect the hand that is going to feed them —
that’s why I mentioned the 80’s and the Japanese — they went from calling the Japanese “gooks and yellow so and so” to white people wanting to learn Japanese and understand Japanese culture so that they could do business with the Japanese — in University, we had to learn about Japanese business culture.
I think that black people are stagnant…I definitely don’t have the answers but I’ve seen what happens when the demographics change and white people are no longer in control
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“TrojanPam,
and then the REAL THIRD WORLD WAR will begin in earnest
of course, I sincerely hope you are right and I’m wrong
I would love to eat my proverbial hat over that one”
Linda says,
I hope you’re wrong too…so I’ll start heating the oven to warm up your hat 🙂
All I can say, as a non-American whose country(s) have suffered due to America always waging their underground wars in other peoples countries — I’ve seen how they work… Jamaica had a “civil war” that put Americas puppet in charge of our Government…this is how they play the game.
America only openly starts wars they believe they can win…
but they don’t start them. As much as they pat themselves on the back, they came into WWI and WW2 towards the end and mopped up what was left and took what spoils of war they could
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“BR,
Linda, your take on South America, principly Brazil is , not correct…right today at this time, Americans do more business with Brazil, by Brazil selling manufactured goods, while China is buying up minerals and raw goods…manufactured goods is better for the economy than selling raw goods:
Linda says,
Since I didn’t talk about South America or Brazil, then you have nothing to “correct” as far as my take on things.
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Great article…
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@ B. R.
Your definition of “racism” is obviously different than mine — and I can live with that
I prefer to rely on what the Father of Capitalism said about it —
given that 400 PLUS YEARS of CHATTEL SLAVERY built MUCH (or MOST) of the wealth of Europe and the U.S.
some of which is STILL EVIDENT to this day in mega-national companies like:
AETNA
Lloyd’s of London
NY Life Insurance Company
FleetBoston Financial Corp
JP Morgan
Lehman Brothers
RJ Reynolds
Loews Corporation
Canadian National Railway
CSX Corporation
Norfolk Southern
Union Pacific Railroad
I believe the ENSLAVEMENT of AFRICAN PEOPLE in the U.S. over a period of 400 years is a pretty good example of how RACISM is interwined with CAPITALISM.
In reality, CAPITALISM REQUIRES SLAVERY because ONLY by exploiting large numbers of people can a SMALL NUMBER OF PEOPLE become super wealthy.
I don’t think I’ve been “hemming and hawing” I was simply stating an opinion which you are free to disagree with or NOT.
What I had the most problem with is NOT your opinions but the somewhat DISCOURTEOUS way that you dialogue with people you disagree with
I have no problem being corrected, but you’ll have to do a better JOB at it than just stating an opinion and giving a few links and telling people they’re wrong
considering your LINKS are no more VALID than mine or anyone else’s
so let’s agree to respectfully disagree
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@ Linda
Again, I hope (and pray) that you’re right and I’m wrong
There is NOTHING I would love better than to be wrong about this
(so whenever you get the go ahead, I’ll get my knife and fork and you can start heating that oven 🙂
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@trojanpam i was unaware president assad was democratically elected in syria.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bashar_al-Assad
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@ v8driver
at this time in history, I believe ALL so-called “democratic” nations and elections are largely FICTIONAL to keep the people locked into choosing a
hamburger with cheese on it
or a cheeseburger
when you think about our last three or four (or more) elections in the U.S. did the people nominate the candidates or finance them?
NO, it is Corporate america and the white elites that chose them– even Obama
why do we think so many private entities donate so much money to those campaigns? And why are there so many lobbyists and Washington? and why are the rich getting richer and everyone else (including black people) are getting poorer REGARDLESS of whether a Democrat or Republican is in office?
Obama during his first term extended and expanded almost every piece of legislation that Geo Bush, Jr. passed
both serve the same purpose: sign your name on the dotted lines we put in front, say the speeches we write for you and KEEP YOUR MOUTHS SHUT about anything else.
every time Obama went off script he got into trouble
for example, calling the cop who arrested Harvard Prof.Gates in his OWN home “acting stupidly” and when he said “Trayvon Martin would have looked like son had he had one” etc
There is a book called “Tragedy and Hope” (think that’s the title) where one of the elites ADMITTED that they created the two party system so people would think they had a choice when they got tired of one party or the other
I don’t know how ANYONE can have any faith in either party
and I strongly suspect that all these pro-Western non-whites nations flying the banner of “democracy” and “democratic elections”
are being controlled by the SAME PEOPLE who control our elections.
in my opinion
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Here’s another book I would highly recommend
“Confessions of an Economic Hitman” by John Perkins
here’s the link:
in this book, Perkins details how American and European elites undermine the economic development of so-called “Third World Nations” and essentially bankrupt them with fraudulent loans these poor countries will NEVER pay back
and instead of hanging the money over to these poor nations so they can build schools, roads and infrastructures, the elites FUNNEL that money back into the pockets of huge American corporations like Main and Bechtel
and then when they can’t pay the loans back, they demand control of their natural resources and UN votes
and when the non-white leaders resist they send in the “jackals” and assassinate the leaders and install pro-Western puppet governments
THAT is why I call it a
GLOBAL SYSTEM OF WHITE SUPREMACY
because that’s exactly what it IS
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To the blacks that read this blog:
WHY do you continue to argue with white supremacists? Do you not see the game here? As you get riled up, your cortisol levels increase in your blood streams. When there’s enough “life force” being emitted from you, they feed.
Whites cannot EVER stay away from us for we are their source of Spiritual Nourishment. They draw our energies from us and grow stronger and more formidable while we get hypertension, diabetes and grow tumors. WHY DO YOU THINK THEY ARE ALWAYS HERE???? TO FEED.
Think this interracial agenda is just about being “colourblind”? Think again! Please stop trying to make them see that they are hurting you! A Psychopath has no feelings, no remorse, no regret, no caring, no huemanity. They are not capable of it! What more do they have to do to you to make you understand that? Leave them for the Creator to exterminate. Focus on us, our families, our children, our healing and our growth.
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@trojanPam:
Two excellent examples how that game is played and how the underdog can make a difference:
Rwanda: against the demands of USA, IMF, World Bank, Britain and big international banks and their agents the ruandans created the universal healthcare for all the people in the country. That one single thing, coming fairly soon after the horrible mass killings (which were not only ethnic but also flamed up by the church) has turned the country around pretty fast. So they decided, despite all the treaths and “advice” of the super rich, provide a free health care for the whole population. The result was rebirth of the nation.
Malawi: malawian government decided to use 10% of its budget for the agricultural investment. The result was that this poorest country in Africa became a food exporter and selfsufficient. IMF, World Bank, USA, EU and many others told Malawi that they should not do that.
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“WHY do you continue to argue with white supremacists?”
I’ve often wondered that myself ,but not everyone who is labeled black is actually black, and not everyone wants to be free ,just like not everyone wants the truth ,nor is everyone capable of rationality.
This blog can and does still serve a useful purpose – entertainment and something to past the time as you spend your life in a cell with little hope of freedom much less love or truth.
I’m born into a world where those who lack a degree of pigment in their epidermis – are considered the best and most worthy , a status they achieved by being the most aggressive in the use of deceit and violence.
diaryofanegress and trojanPam say there is little to no reason to talk to white people ,however there is a problem with this conclusion – its the reason I am even commenting here,same reason Solitary confinement is so dreaded and effective in prison.
I have and even better reason not to talk to white/albinic people – CTS a covert telepathic surveillance system I experience everyday ,aided by the continuous cooperation and support of every black and non-white I know or see.
At this point most will tune out – concluding I’m pyschopathological (crazy)
perhaps I am ,I wish there was some definitive methodology to determine truth from illness but it will always be apposed by criminals.
I still will break down and talk to white/albinic people because they can rely on most black people leaving me in my isolation – or maybe I’m just stupid and weak.
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OK, Abagond, saw your comment re: posting on older threads and I think this is the most appropriate one for what I have to say.
I read this and some linking posts. You are actually very thoughtful and an incredible writer. We like a lot of the same books, similar music and have had some very similar life experiences (based on the ones you were willing to share). I actually think it’s very likely we’d get along well in real life (though you are probably inclined to see me as an r-word troll at this point–yes, it hurts a white person to get called this).
Having said that, here is my feedback to your post and links generally. As you have said, we’re all racist to some extent, yourself included. We form conceptions and opinions based on our experiences, for better or worse. For instance, I was jumped by black gang members when I was younger. You’ve encountered many experiences with racism from whites. Those experiences have an affect on us, and that can’t really be avoided completely. That said, I try to give each individual a chance and look beyond race or cultural differences, and hopefully you do to.
What I don’t agree with you fundamentally on is that there will (and should) always be equal results among races, on average, in a fair world. So, I don’t advocate continued efforts to have the government force equal outcomes. In my opinion, this actually perpetuates more “racism”, as there is no end in sight to affirmative action as currently conducted. (In my quick review, and so I may have missed these entries) I didn’t see any posts on your site about, e.g., how to increase rates of marriage in the black community, how get more black men to be actively involved in the lives of their children (I know you are and I commend you for that), etc. , but whites certainly perceive that blacks often seem more focused on calling out racism in white society than actively working to fix their own communities.
You have posts on IQ scores that seem to argue these must be racist. Maybe the IQ test translators are better for Japan than they are for Sub-Saharan Africa? I don’t assume equality on every level must be the result. Even though Eastern European Jews have much higher scores than other whites, I don’t assume this is because the tests are racist. One response, that many non-Jewish whites have incidentally, is to get upset at Jews or make some excuses. I don’t do that. I just do what I do and try to do it well. That’s the attitude I respect the most in anyone. You are more than your race. Even if more blacks will be successful NBA stars than whites, it doesn’t mean a white person couldn’t compete. It doesn’t make the NBA racist. I will judge you as an individual person, even if I don’t hold as sacred dogma that all races must have the same average intelligence.
If you try hard enough, it’s easy to blame everything on whites (including for instance Rwanda), but this ultimately solves nothing. None of this history will change in 50 or 100 years. My initial comment was that Whites will be a minority in our lifetimes (if we avoid early deaths, God-willing). With current demographic trends (and God-willing, long, healthy lives), your sons and mine will live the see the day when there are more Hispanics than whites in this country? Do you believe that is likely to be a better world for them? I am not 100% sure of the answer to that question, but I am personally saddened to see that whites seem to be in the process of dying out globally and no one is taking notice or feels they could speak about it openly. You are entitled to be concerned about yourself, your family and your race, but do me the dignity to not call me the r-word if I do the same, particularly as we become a country of minorities.
Finally, on a very personal note, I think a larger societal problem is actually gender issues, and your focus on race draws you away from this. When I read about your experience with your ex, it was not dissimilar to my own (beta actions we are taught will make women happy result in quite the opposite effect over time…). I thought you’d benefit quite a bit from becoming “red pill”, learning about female hypergamy and its consequences–Like me, you converted to Christianity mid-life, so I think it’s possible if you come at this with an open mind, though it will seem incredibly radical to you at first. You are a very bright guy and read a lot. This is really worth a couple hours of your time to figure it out. Good luck and my apologies for making some harsh comments earlier without reading more of your work.
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@ ALL
I’m listening to CBS News Radio — I believe, Senator John McCain is talking about sending CRUISE MISSILES to bomb runways in Syria to “help” establish a “no-fly zone” to help promote a “democracy” and “stop the people from being “slaughtered”
BOTH Democrats and Republicans are talking about ATTACKING SYRIA
who has NOT ATTACKED OR EVER ATTACKED THE U.S.
what is it that we (relatively intelligent) people DO NOT UNDERSTAND about the IMMORALITY of this position?
Perhaps the reason we don’t have a democracy in the U.S. is
we don’t deserve one ourselves
Keep your eye on Syria
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@ diaryofanegress
Your comment reminds me of a TV documentary i saw a month about about (white) people who thought they were vampires and this one white female claimed she fed on other people’s ENERGY instead of blood and they did an experiment where two guys had the kind of equipment that could measure (invisible) energy — so they claimed
and sure enough, to demonstrate her energy-draining “powers” she used a young black male as the “DONOR”
and as they watched on a monitor it appeared that the aura around her changed colors, indicating an energy transfer of some kind, from the young (and clueless) black male to that white female
I do believe there are invisible energy fields around us at all times AND that there is SOMETHING white people seek from non-white people on a SPIRITUAL and a PSYCHOLOGICAL level
Otherwise, why would whites continuing tread and mix and sex non-white people who MOST (didn’t say all) apparently despise? And why has every non-white culture’s spiritual and religious practices and beliefs been CO-OPTED and adopted by various groups of white people?
Why is there this obsession with non-white cultures and practices where entire university departments, programs, documentaries, magazines, etc are CREATED just to study non-white people? The same people who aren’t worth a damn?
because they study us to SEE what we have that they DON’T
On the flip side, most non-white people who have NEVER come into much contact with whites don’t seem all that interested or thrilled about knowing more about them
to them, whites may be different, but it’s NO BIG DEAL
that’s why the North American so-called “Native Americans’ didn’t slaughter or rape or enslave the first European invaders to that continent
they were like, cool, you’re here, what’s up, you hungry, here’s some grub, dig in and in the meantime, help yourself to whatever you need because none of this stuff belongs to anyone, it’s belongs to Mother Nature
and we know how the rest of that sad story goes
(which can be repeated in Africa, Australia, New Zealand, etc.)
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@ Trojan Pam
I deleted your comment about disease and medicine in Africa. That is getting too off topic.
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@ extinct
If blacks ran and controlled the NBA then whites would suspect racism.
If blacks wrote IQ tests where whites did poorly, then whites would suspect racism.
If most employers were black while whites had twice the unemployment rate even after taking education into account, then whites would suspect racism.
Inequality by itself does not prove racism, of course, but given America’s past and the fact that 80% of whites are still demonstrably racist and still pretty much run things, only the wilfully blind would NOT suspect racism.
It is easy to sound high-minded and say you do not suspect racism when it does not hurt whites and in fact helps them.
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@ abagond
Understood. Thanks for the heads-up
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I have read a few of the comments above, don’t have time to read more for the moment but I’ll just say this to reply broadly and briefly.
I gave my “advice” to “Americans” as a whole because my experience has shown that there is a common thinking around “race” and the rest of the world among Americans (whatever B.R. thinks about it, who apparently considers that racism has nothing to do with capitalism. And I don’t think I am the only “amateur” here !!!).
I want to make clear that I do understand that Blackness as a CONCEPT is necessary for African-Americans (and probably for all the groups defined as “black” by white supremacy in white supremacist contexts) to oppose Whiteness. There is no escaping it in the oppressive context white supremacy creates and maintains. BUT that doesn’t mean African-Americans have “carte blanche” to up and tell everyone they must racialize themselves.
Sam recalled how Malcolm X expressed what he realized after he went to Mecca and how American thinking (YES, B.R. the American way of thinking about “race”, yes) had become even clearer to him.
Trojanpam (I think it was), I KNOW Europe is no better, but there “race” is not institutionalized. That is a big difference. It is still very much in the law in the US. That is what I meant. Therefore it has a legal credibility that makes it believable as a biological fact, when it is a social fact.
What I am TRYING to say (because I da*n know these racists/white supremacists, they are members of my family and people I am acquainted with and/or work with) is that “blackness” as a biological apprehension is a big mistake. Big big mistake, because it is the tool of the enemy. That is ALL I’m saying. You can’t fight racism with race. Simple. Clear. No way.
Now, of course, as someone (I think Phoebeprunelle) said, you don’t have to believe me or agree with what I am saying. I’m just expressing my opinion.
I think that “race” is THE killer. There are MANY elements that prove it. If you don’t see it, well you don’t. It’s easier to follow people who give you simple answers. Pseudo-biological answers are these.
But please, don’t call me a white supremacist ! That is just ridiculous. If people who know me could read that they would just smile.
But you believe what you want. Some of you are stuck with the idea that all the people classified as “white” by white supremacy (which is the one making the rules here) are automatically racist. That’s a mistake, it is helping your enemy. I have explained how above or in another thread.
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Unfortunately Diary, white supremacists are on their way to pass the Creator over. The people Dr Caldicott refers to as sociopaths in this video conference are actually white supremacists (but she doesn’t know that). I am convinced of the fact that if we let them, they are already killing us all.
To me nuclear power is the extreme of the expression of white supremacy. Their immorality (thank you Legion), totally remorseless cruelty, lack of spiritual maturity is leading us all (all living beings, that includes humans and the rest of life) to destruction. There are few of us (classified as “white”) who realize that there is a link between white supremacy, capitalism, “development” and energy production of this type and other.
GMO production participates in the same problem. The map of nuclear power and GMO production is clear. It is the map of white supremacy (including “honorary whites” like Japan and now India and China who are entering the race -if I may say-).
And I wish we could work together more efficiently against them but white supremacy has created this distrust that several are expressing in this thread and that constitutes another of its major psychological tools.
I hope that as a so-called “white” commenter I will be read by other self-defined or other-defined “whites” who will take Abagond’s advice and consider that what they thought was the truth has to be re-evaluated.
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If I were a white supremacist/ racist I would have given up a long time ago and would have resorted to insult… Don’t you know that ? (I’m addressing those who think I am that) Racists cannot discuss race and racism. There is no discussion possible for them. It is not negotiable. It is their way of life. Whiteness is their pedestal. Wipe it away from their feet and they are nothings.
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Trojanpam
is it Adam Smith you quoted here ?
“I prefer to rely on what the Father of Capitalism said about it —
given that 400 PLUS YEARS of CHATTEL SLAVERY built MUCH (or MOST) of the wealth of Europe and the U.S.”
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Yep, Adam Smith, just saw it in your reply to B.R.
I only recently read the Wealth of Nations as part of readings in the Sociological Theory class and was the only one in my class who pointed to what I thought were extremely racist takes on his part. Apparently the other 20 or so students (most of who want to become sociologists…) had seen none of it. To me it was appalling !
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Cornlia , Malcolm X didnt stop using the word “black”…what a misrepresentation of Malcolm to further your flawed “American thinking” mentality..You do know Brazil has racial quotas now, and national public tv comercials urging people to identify thier race on public forms, dont you? The constant “only America does this” drone on here is a disease,,,
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What a denial people want to be in here about thinking ‘capatalism is what causes and caused racism…I mean my god is that amature…and you all are suposed to be anti racist? what a joke…I have a huge list of racist actions from communist countries and fundimentalist muslim countries , along with America, who banned and said racist stuff about black Afro diasporic culture , I was saving it for a frothy last proverbial throw myself on the sword and take as many people down with me as possible, over on the bootie dancing thread…but the ignorance is rolling like a giant river on here
How naive to think racism doesnt exist in communist countries or fundimentalist religious countries with as much hatred and prejudice as any capatalist country.
I guess it just bursts the bubble of a lot of peoples little back porch analysis of how the world works
TrojanPam, I have been listening to you, and , any black american of all backgrounds and levals in society, has an inner knowledge about the racism and obstacles and discrimination thrown in their face since a young age..and can speak about it very validly, and no white person should be surprised at the space of indignation and anger that each black American must feel inside to some degree or another…that is what white people need to listen to, without getting all defensive…but, when we start looking at American policies in an international dog eat dog world,, your opinion is from a person who happens to be black, and like any black scholars who have written about American international policy, have gathered information from white authors and opinions, some from angsty white people like Karl Marrx, a big supporter of violent armed revolution, or Noam Chomsky, who I have proven a liar and misshaper of facts
At that point, where my international experiance directly negates things being said by you and others here, I am going to speak up to you as someone with an opinion on it that happens to be black….you just raise flags when you only want to look at who America waged war with after world war 2…why only after world war two? Why forget world war two, where America probably killed more white people than all its little dirty wars after that up until now, certainly you canalso see through Michael Moores figures of 4 million killed ny America, since there was another side who contributed to this figure also.This is the shctick of anti Americans reading off of the Soviet Union propaganda page with Fidel and Che’s snot on it..they dont have to be commies, they just picked up the paper, or read it from someone who has, to make a false claim about something America has done, leaving out there was another oposing side doing the same thing
I just see a lot of cliched thinking…you are going to actualy tell me Im wrong about racism in communist countries? This isnt opinion, its fact, I just proved it above…and have lots of other referances…I can see, I couldnt really count on you to speak up on the booty dancing thread, at attitudes that mimic exactly the racism and prejudice you can see in communist and muslim countries that have banned Afro diasporic culture and made blatently racist remarks about it,
These commentors arnt racist and claim to be and pat themselves on the back to being anti racist, but they cant even perceive they habe baought into attitudes that have stepped on Afro diasporic culture since slavery out of Africa….Im surprised you dont get that given your in depth political analysis of racism
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You see, TrojanPam, I thought , with your in depth look at racism, that you surly were also going to see that Fidel, Che, and Hugo Chavez, Saayim Qutb, and Al Quaeda who chop off hands in Mali for practising their cultures, etc, were also just part of the huge reality of power , greed , money and politics, in this world that has contributed to racism , and policies that dismiss bury, and destroy Afro diasporic cultures…I mean I will always disagree with you on your views on interracial sex and whether violence is an option, but , I surly thought you would see through the racism of these other entities….I was wrong
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B.R. if you did read people’s comments before commenting on them, it would be a little “fairer”.
I never reproached anyone with using the word “black”.
I explained clearly how I view the difference between a social and a biological acceptation of “race”.
Just above, in the post that you are replying to, I said this:
“I want to make clear that I do understand that Blackness as a CONCEPT is necessary for African-Americans (and probably for all the groups defined as “black” by white supremacy in white supremacist contexts) to oppose Whiteness. There is no escaping it in the oppressive context white supremacy creates and maintains. BUT that doesn’t mean African-Americans have “carte blanche” to up and tell everyone they must racialize themselves.”
I know exactly how “race” functions in a racist environment and how the victims of white supremacy are compelled to react to “whiteness” with “blackness”.
I am just saying that I personally do not define myself racially (therefore as “white”) and I do not define others racially. It’s quite simple. It’s a conscious behavior. It’s political. It is in accordance with (or rather discordance) racism because I DO NOT want to give racism any credibility. That is my way of doing it.
I let people call themselves what they want. Forcing others into label and categories, types and “races” is what racists do.
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None of us said “capitalism causes racism”.
We said, and expressed in various ways, that capitalism is linked with racism.
It was born at the same period of time, and in the same countries
Germany, Holland, Switzerland, England – Protestant countries which are the creators of Capitalism,
France, a Catholic country with others with a peculiar enforcement of racism because it “knew” it was “bad”, so it forbade slavery on its “soil” but not in its colonies and was probably the most hypocritical in its enforcement of racism b producing at the same time “Le Code Noir” and the Enlightment,
and Spain, Portugal, a little Italy, all Catholic countries with a different approach too.
Capitalism is the brother of racism. One didn’t / doesn’t work without the other. Racism was useful to it. It was not “caused” by it. I don’t know where you read that.
And why do you need to defend “capatalism” (as you call it) ? It doesn’t need defending.
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Oh you have proven Noam Chomsky a liar !
Wow ! I’m impressed ! LOL
I wonder how many years you’ve been in international politics to do so ! It’s quite hard to catch up with him, he is very prolific. I guess he was too much against “capatalism” in your opinion.
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Malcolm X’s big change coming back from Mecca was how the Nation of Islam at that time said “all white people are devils” , and, he came back saying he had left the nation of Islam , and, discovered people of all racial backgrounds coming together to worship….you tried to imply it was tied into other things…even if you did your big explanation of how you “understand” , you still continue to try to jam your square peg into a round hole that is the fluid “having to deal with the law of chaos that white racism piles on in daily going on about life for black people in America”…you just cant get that maybe your little opinion pales in comparison with the bigger reality picture
You break everything down into “American thinking”…I have proved you and the others who say this as seriolsy wrong because you just dont take the time to research othere countries you would find it isnt American thinking only
Im not defending capatalism, Im just saying it is not the cause of racism, communism and fundamental religion equaly dismiss , destroy and bury Afro diasporic culture….you arent saying that, you are taking extra time to make capatalism as the brother of racism…religions is as much of the brother…communism absolutly doesnt really address racism and racism comfortably exists in the communist countries that have to ban Afro diasporic cultures to fit in their agendas…by the way, speaking of agendas, that is what Chomsky has been peddling all these years…dont hold him up to me as some noble political champion for causes…Ive caught him in serious distortions of the truth…if you want to swallow his lies, be my guest
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@ B. R.
Since this post was about advice to white people, I don’t think it’s possible to cover every single instance of injustice or greed in the world.
Also, I never said injustices didn’t happen elsewhere in the world but NO ONE can even compare to the HORRIFIC DAMAGE that has been done ALL OVER THE PLANET by white supremacy.
NO ONE even comes close.
European/U.S. forces have been cutting off arms and body parts in Africa for HUNDREDS of years, so I’m not really all that shocked by what you say Fidel and Hugo Chavez might or might not be doing (or what the Western media says they are doing
it is difficult to impossible to separate white supremacy/colonialism/ imperialism/TERRORISM worldwide
from all the chaos in non-white nations on the planet.
Because every ruler you mentioned has been IMPACTED by European global terrorism — military and economic — so I don’t think its wise for those who benefit from white supremacy to POINT any fingers at anyone regarding BRUTALITY
because black people got some STORIES about brutality right here at home
because we are STILL being lynched, dragged by pickup trucks, murdered by police, stopped and frisked, and put in prison for nonexistent offienses,
we are still being tortured while in police custody by white policemen like Burge who tortured black males in custody for YEARS and STILL hasn’t been charged with that CRIME
And Abner Louima, the black male who was sodomized in NYC with a broom handle by a white cop
and another black male who was sodomized in an alley In Chicago by a white cop about five years ago
AND an unarmed black male and female and shot over 123 times?????????
just months ago
and if those white cops go to trial an all-white jury will ACQUIT THEM
Sorry, as a LIFELONG VICTIM of white supremacy, let me end by saying I’m just not overwhelmed by the examples you mentioned,
NOT when I’m watching the slaughter of MILLIONS of non-white people in Iraq, Afghanistan, Africa, and right here in the U.S. —
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Some white people are very difficult to understand. They are heavily conditioned (we all are) to believe their own PR. The nuances of white privilege are more difficult to fight in some ways than the overt racism of the Civil Rights era. For instance, a person of color being disregarded or invisible. I don’t know how many times I’ve walked into a store with no greeting or offer of help. A white person comes before or after me, and is greeted with great service. They’ve taken credit for things I’ve achieve. It’s almost like if you’re black, you’re not supposed to be of quality. I equated it to a designer handbag. A Chanel bag is sold at Saks Fifth Avenue and the other at the dollar store – same bag. We are so conditioned to believe that Saks is better or of higher quality than the dollar store that the one sold there is cheapened, even though it’s the same bag. That is what has happened to us.
We are at a tipping point (I hope). The election was the first awakening for the privileged.
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Again, TrojanPam, as a black woman, I can only listen to your condemnation of police brutality, and how it hangs over the head of black Americans daily lives. This is something you viscerlily know, and can feel, and I need to listen and understand that.
As a person with an opinion about numbers of people, who have been slaughtered by the USA compared to the rest of the world, I would say I disagree with your numbers, and Id be much more worried about the ideology that brought 20 million people death, in one country, in their cultural revolution, and who starved 30 million forcing them to do Marxist back to the feilds, flawed farming techniques…this happening in my lifetime…
You know , Fidel and Che, executed and killed more people than Brazil, Chile,and Uruguai combined in their military dictatorships? Cuba was in 17 countries in Africa, do they have any responsibility for the death and destruction in Africa at all? Or they were all just noble freedom fighters, not using Soviet money to join countries as satelites for their recources?
You do know, the USA entered into Afghanistan, in the middle of their civil war, where over a million people had died
Iraq, a horrible mistake, to be sure, I have no defence for that, but, it really was shifting the balance of power from suuni to shiite, which played out in the Iran/Iraq war where over a million people died
Hugo Chavez screamed yankee Imperialism, but he behaved very imperialisticly by aiding and abetting Farc, a Marxist revolutionarie group, in Colombia, descending into thug drug and arms dealers who kidnap also,Chavez invested in them and let them use his border to hide and to cross over in Brazil to trafic arms and drugs. This support of Farc, by Hugo,indirectly pumped huge amounts of coke and arms to Brazil’s largest drug gangs and this inadvertantly leads to more deaths than in Iraq as a result of the drug traficing, and now, Brazil is the number one crack user in the world.
Im afraid you are getting one sided information about the world and how the USA is the worst of them all….Communism was responsible for more than a hundred million deaths in just the last century…I guess you are buying into those leader ideologies, or you would have understood the death and destruction their ideologies really represent..as well as the same racism as the USA
But, I think you have much to teach about what white America has done wrong to black Americans..even if I dont agree with your interracial views…and, I think you know what is best for you to face a racist society
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BR,
I can only speak for myself but I never said “Capitalism was the cause of racism”…. I am saying that racism is a “Tool” of the system; the at the heart of white Supremacy is money… its ALL about the system called Money.
Money is game changer that drives national and international policy… it decides “agenda”, it changes the dialogue
I am saying that black people should use “Money” and learn to play the System to their advantage as a “means to an end” to help find Solutions
“Another example how racism is used by the system” is how Sam described the intent behind his post…maybe you should read it again with an unjaundiced eye.
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The sentence that says “ALL about the system called Money” is actually a statement by Sam…
I don’t actually believe that it’s “only” or “ALL” about money because for some people, it really comes down to religion and ideology….
I’ve had the misfortune to meet some white people (who were American and non-Americans) who truly believed that they were better than black people because they believe that white people are the chosen people of God and they believe that black people are truly inferior.
These type of people are the enemies of all non-white people and dangerous because it’s an innate belief that cannot be rationalized or changed because the believe in the righteousness of white Supremecy….to me, this is what “Race Realists” represent and I have a no tolerance for these people.
The rest of white people (and black/non-white westerners) are walking kool-aide drinkers who have no idea that their lives are really not their own and they are just “high functioning, well-educated sheep” who pay into the System and keep it functioning. We all know that something is “off”, we just can’t put on fingers on it.
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Since racism more or less came about to justify the trans-national slave trade, than couldn’t it very well be claimed that “Capitalism created Racism”?
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@ TrojanPam – I don’t know if you are aware or if anyone else has said this but from your long post above you are articulating “The Cress Theory” by Dr. Francis Cress-Welsing. The idea that Whites operate from the POV of genetic inferiority from POC especially Blacks who can dominate them genetically regarding miscegenation. So they have instinctive behaviors which propagate marginalizing Blacks and POC thru racial stratification of White Supremacy/Racism. Oh and I’m a student of Neely Fuller Jr, love his works.
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Yes, Linda, and I get your point about its about learning how to use money .
I need clarification, since everyone sais 70 percent of black Americans are in the middle class, doesnt that mean they are in the system? Are peoples parents here putting their money in mattresses, or , are they in savings accounts, investments, mortages etc? Things, that if the American capatalistic system failed, wouldnt their savings and investments go down the tubes also?
I like capatalism, I hate hyper predatory corporate military industrial, prison industrial ceo top heavy capatalism…I want capatalism with a concience, and with social programs that will help people on the bottom of the hiarcial chain, society only benafits by looking out for all of its members
with all the real brutal racism the USA has, black Americans , through a deep struggle where nothing was handed to them on a silver platter, and where every inch has to be battled for to gain, are a beacon to other black people around the world about how to gain some kind of foothold in a system that was not set up for them to succeed;..in many respects, they learned to play the system
Compared to Brazil, black Americans have a much more visable presence in traveling on airplanes and staying in high class hotels,they own more businesses and homes…Im perplexed there is a debate at all that the leaders I mentioned would be thought of as some beacons for racial justice
I would never say capatilism is not clear of racism, but all capatalists arnt racists, all corporations are not hyper predatory
I just see Obama get a lot of static for like putting huge investment to save the banking system, when , in truth, he was saving a system that 70 percent of black Americans are a part of
Yes, horrible things have been done by America, in the name of hyper predatory capatalism, but , communism and religion have perpetuated racism and violence as much as capatalism
Just my personal opinion,I think to really address racism , you have to address it on its own terms.Weaving it into political agendas like communism, or even the democratic party in the USA, only dilutes the focus;;;the minute you throw in with white angsty political ambitions, feminist activist hyper rhetoric, Freud/Fannon pseudo psyche sexua politicall babble…the actual focus on the dissmissle , destruction and burial of Afro diasporic cultures will get lost in the shuffle……think of it, none of those entities will give anyone knowledge of Afro diasporic culture and origins….
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B.R. I see what you mean and what the “focus” “should” be, iyo.
But separate racism from politics ? How is that even possible ? Racism IS politics. It is an enforced ideology. It is meant as policies to be applying, and that is the reason why it has had a social impact and has taken on the form of “culture”. The law does induce that. State communism, capitalism, they all function in the same manner. They need a state that authoritatively imposes social facts through the “law”, which is perceived as “sacred” in Nation states.
“capatalism with a conscience”… Good luck with that one…
(why do you keep writing capitalism capatalism ? Just curious. Is it the Brazilian spelling ?)
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Yeah, racism is the politic,and when you try to tie it in with one ideology, like capitalism, as the cause, or communism as the cause, or religion as the cause, it dilutes the real focus that racism is independent of all those things and can seep through them…it dilutes racism by making it a sub-ordinate to the “bigger” picture of class, or, religion…so what doesnt get looked at is the dismissle, burial and destruction of culture and the expectations of people to let go of their culture and feel inferior…
Too often, the feminist activist positions, the gay rights, other minorities, etc, all latched on to rhetoric that basicly came out of the Black American Civil Rights Movement…then you get cross talk semantical hyperbole that ends up putting down Afro diasporic culture like was done to Baile Funk…some of the statements there linking it to capatalism and sex, could be taken directly from the communist news papers explaining why they are banning jazz dancing…but Baile Funk is really another chapter in the evolution of Afro Diasporic dances and rhythms, and , how , inspite of those types of criticisms, it becomes a national cultural patrimony. I mean this is the process of how Afro Diasporic dances and grooves became the foundations of our cultures (those of us with Afro diasporic cultures as our foundations), the building blocs, it goes down exactly like that, and ought to be embraced
It is like a model in motion of what happened with Afro Diasporic dances and beats, that faced huge scathing criticism, and flak, but came out to dominate the popular cultures…
But, you take the politic of racism, and jam it up against Freud/Fannon/activist feminism that hates sensuality (as oposed to feminism who know how to go after the real problems like violence and workforce equality), and all the pseudo psycho sexual babble, throw it up against Marx/ Chomsky/Fidel/ versus Chicago b oys economics/Fox News/, throw it up against fundimental any religion….and, it will get twisted and lost in the shuffle and will be twisted against itself in terms of how to define culture and what will get buried when the dust clears…
Yeah, racism is the politic and ought to be dealt with on its own terms
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@BR:
Well, racism was invented as an explanation for the exploitation of other nations and people for the profit so it is ingrained into capitalism, so there fore it is impossible to separate it from its basic function and purpose. It is part of the global capitalist economics, one of its fundamental corner stones. If we pretend to separate it as an autonymous issue, we are only playing with it.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism
Sam, you are superimposing capitalism over slavery..in the wiki article above, slavery is not mentioned once, and, some definitions require certain conditions to be in place that hae nothing to do with slavery.Capitalism started being discussed in relationship to the industrial revolution and how a wage is involved with the worker. Exploitation of that worker and the solutions for that worker are the basis for communism. Mercintalism was the word back in slave times that the west used.
They had discusions in Spain in the 15th century about whether the indiginous natives in the Americas were deemed equal to the white conquerers.
The act of African slavery in the west has more to do with the influence of the Arab slave trade and how they both looked on black Africans as an inferior culture and conquerable or able to barter with other people who had conquered the slaves.
In Brazil, now, they find slave conditions occaisionaly going on, they dont describe it as “capatalism”, they describe it as “slavery”, because it is differant. Modern capitalism involves a wage for the laborer.Yes, hyper predatory capatalism is based on exploitation and cruel business practices and should be watched and regulated
But, super imposing capatalism over plundering and conquering for wealth is like saying slavery on the plantation is like communism where every one suffers equaly except the power at the top, and, they are the “state” telling everyone what to do and how to do it
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@BR:
The racism as we know it and as it is usually understud was created in 1600’s as an explanation for the conquest and exploitation of Americas and Africa since it would have been un-christian to wipe out whole human cultures for economical reasons. Thus, these people and cultures had to become non-humans and the only way to do it was via racism.
Naturally we can discuss weather the capitalism of 1600’s was capitalism in modern sense or should we limit our concept of racism only to post-1700’s time after the industrial revolution. But that is another discussion.
Communism, as it became known and was created by Lenin, was based on the idea of “proletarian dictature”, that is the dictatorship of the vanguard and thus was dictatorship in very pure sense. BUT in communism race was not defining factor as it has been in western capitalism. Had it been, ossetian-georgian like Iosif Duzghasvili, aka Josef Stalin, would have never been able to rise to the top, nor abkhasian Lavrenti Beriya to become the head of the KGB. Both of them were non-russians, a fact which todays russians are quite happy to tell you (they were basically foreigners from Caucasus who killed millions of russians).
In western capitalism the racism is one way to divide people into exploitable segments and if need be, to controll them trough racial identities and racially defined ghettoes, and if real need will rise up, hire the others to kill the others, just like William Tweed said more than hundred years ago: “You can always hire the other half of the poor to kill the other half”. And that has happened many times. And that is possible only trough racism of sorts.
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Sam, back in the 1600’s, in the west, religion was the brother accompanying slavery….and religion was the brother of the Arabs who came in to conquer and colonise north Africa.
See, I dont look at just the fact the west came up with the semantics of “racism”, what ever the Arabs called it, taking millions of people out of Africa, across the Red Sea, stripping them of their culture, and families, it was a very similar thing….that both the west and the Arabs took millions and millions out of black Africa into slavery, incriminates both of them deeply in seeing the black Africans as inferiour and have no respect for their culture.
The Arabs welcomed culture from all over the world to build their knowledge , but, they couldnt respect the culture of the black people coming out of Africa, a culture that is now the building blocks of many countries that brought in slaves from Africa, that comes down to us today, and these non physical building blocks have more impact on our world culture than any structures built by “civilisations” from ancient times .
You fail to see how racism just came through communist regimes as well as capatalistic ones…Che was racist, so , Fidel may not have been, but, communism just didnt address the legacy of slavery that is Cuba..communism absolutly will not shine a light on black Afro diasporic culture, its value and lack of emphasis could be the real reason for self esteem issues of AFro diasporic descendants in countries their ancestors were brought to as slaves
The commuinsts, because of their struggle with America, attacked and banned black American jazz…used sexual connotations exactly as you did about dances that you think use butt wiggling and propositions of coitus..it really is the same thing when they put down the contortions of black jazz dance, comparing it to an African witch doctor
Your mistake , Sam, is tying it all too much into America and capatalism and what you see as wrong with it…to really understand racism, you really have to see past capatalism, communism, religion and see it asa the basic desician to deem a people inferior ,their culture inferior and if they are conquerable, they are worthy of slavery .
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@BR:
So basically you are saying that racism is part of human condition and not an ideology or idea?
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Sam , Im not sure how exactly I would define it, what strikes me most about history is the blatent fact that the Arab slave trade and Atlantic slave trade devastated black Africa, took people out of there by the millions, and tried their best to destroy their culture.
And this plays out through religion,and political agendas right and left. I mean who’s culture is gone after and put down and repressed? Black American jazz was put down and even banned in America. It was the victom of American white racism, but the communist countries went after that Afro diasporic culture, the same way Saayim Qutb described “beastial tendencies in the negroes”. He was the inspiration for Bin Laden and Zawaharwi (sp?)…Ive got an article Im waiting to bring on for my huge bootie thread mother of all posts, about the Hezbollah banning a samba presentation in Lebenon, because of the nudity, when the girls are dressed much more than actual passistas.Black Afro diasporic culture is the fall guy for all of them
Of course its valuable to understand how “racism” evolved in Europe, and how that affected their colonies in the Americas, but, the act of destroying culture and dragging absolutly mind boggling numbers of people out of Africa by both the Arab slave trade and Atlantic slave trade,seems to me to be the underlying factors that have developed world views that dont really understand the real power and genius of the Afro diasporic cultures, and actualy has tried to dissmiss bury and destroy these cultures
Im just saying this racism ought to be addressed on its own terms rather than seeing it as a result of capatalism, communism, religion etc…and that it played out through those things, but is a seperate entity that needs to be fully confronted for what it represents…that is my opinion on it
And Sam, Im not saying to disreguard the dirt you find on America about it, Im only saying the Castros, Chavez, the Talaban, are all a part of this behind the scenes grab for power also, and they arent really concerned with with these factors that dismmiss , bury and destroy Afro diasporic culture around the world
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In the discussions on here, we have always said “race” and “racism” was made up by the West, so, as we dissect this to look underneath about what is really going on, what factor is left underneath that got dissmissed buried and destroyed , in both the Arab slave trade and the Atlantic slave trade, is the culture of the people , and the implication that the people who practiced this culture, and were conquerable, or bartered for with other people who conquered them, were inferior and deemed worthy of slavery…
And if you peel back the layers of racism in the Americas, where millions of African slaves were brought, the underlying theme across the board is the cultural stiffling of Afro diasporic cultures in the media and implied about how people are suposed to feel about culture
Brazil is a fascinating place to be in now as they face their racism now, with quotas in universities, quotas for the media, public service announcements about racism and how you should mark your census balot about what race you are etc And, what is disturbing for me to see is that, as black faces start coming up more in the media, in the schools, in the political arena etc, the real deep powerful Afro diasporic roots are slowly, subtely,being faded into the back, without ever having its true spotlight anyway. White actresses and models are replacing the passistas in the escolas for the big media coverage. Some might be black actresses or models , but they are replacing the real dancers from the community…they canceled carnival in my city this year, the only outlit for these dancers to get some recognition they might parley into a career…I just saw one of my favorite folklorico group, Cocoraizes do Arcoverde, and they just blew my mind,with incredible power and huge implications of how music was made in slave times in Brazil, but you will hardly ever see this group in the mainstream media….the real coverage of black Afro diasporic culture is being surpressed, dismissed, buried and destroyed
I honestly beleive underneath “racism” is the beleif that the black people from Africa and their culture, are inferior, and those who are conquerable (because they couldnt conquer the Daohome nation) are deemed worthy of slavery,and that base got played out in everything in the west and the Arab world because of this…religion, politics, media..everything…if Afro diasporic culture was received for the genius
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…continued here, my computor is messing with my comments….
if Afro diasporic culture was received for the genius it is, I truly beleive much of what is racism would be dissolved…for sure not all…but so much racism in the world is based on lack of respect for culture and associations of inferiority with that culture
It seems if you are black and can abandon your culture and act in the white world, you could be one of those new faces in the media or in the university or in a job somewhere, but, you have to give up your culture
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I’m sorry but this blog along with diaryofanegress and brothawolf keep black Americans in an extremely negative emotional state. These blogs are a hothouse of psychological trauma CONSTANTLY reinforcing false narratives of exclusive slavery on every topic from housing to health!
That ish must stop! I said it before and I reiterate-US blacks aren’t solely the descendants of slaves. IMO we should investigate this before wallowing in the slave chronicles.
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Yes because three blogs can do that! And race based slavery of Africans was only in the U.S, you know what, who are we kidding, lets stop talking about racists, period.
/sarcasm off
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“Yes because three blogs can do that! And race based slavery of Africans was only in the U.S, you know what, who are we kidding, lets stop talking about racists, period.
/sarcasm off”
Those 3 blogs tend to have the same posters saying the same things-an echo chamber of historical woe that keeps, readers in an emotional headlock. You see,Gen there’s so much more than slavery in black history! Is that the be all and end all of the black life experience? Especially when its already been repeatedly proved that mainstream figures of blacks slaves are not only way exaggerated but practically impossible. I’ve seen estimates of between 10 up to 100 million victims of the Transatlantic slave trade-REAAALLLLLYY!
Sometimes,I think there’s a conspiracy to keep us bamboozled with red herrings and non existant bs.
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kay said
“this blog along with diaryofanegress and brothawolf keep black Americans in an extremely negative emotional state. These blogs are a hothouse of psychological trauma CONSTANTLY reinforcing false narratives of exclusive slavery on every topic from housing to health!”
I sometimes feel the exact same about these blogs – but another thing is why come here.
However part of it is the constant and consistent focus on anything but the relevant and solutions.
I’m particularly am a isolated american american and like most black people – with much assistance from albinics – a very slow learner:
sure I can find other african americans in person and other blogs – but not readily so – and few and far between where you can talk outside the established perimeters of this society.
Also to kay – did a quick browse of your blog site and yours is little better in my view.
@b.r.
at it again huh, I see pattern regularly ,to me its yet another example of white/albinic privilege – freedom from needing or wanting to get to the point, the stolen free time (not having to earn a living etc),etc
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@kay
I forgot about a fourth one,blog that is….
Also immediately after the previous post ,a stream of posts followed ,effectively burying my post from recent comments –
message – “we” not interested in your opinion or views only your unconditional submission – allegedly as contemporary phenotypic group predators/criminals would never say any such thing out loud – too obvious too stupid…….
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Glad you feel that way! IMO,these types of places other than a forum for venting,I’m very sorry to say encourage a type of compulsive mental masturbation that keeps the same people coming back with the same forumers egging them on.
Honestly,its a version of psychological codependency! Like you,I think the time has come to start seriously considering solutions and we need a cyber forum for that.
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@kay
I’m sorry but this blog along with diaryofanegress and brothawolf keep black Americans in an extremely negative emotional state. These blogs are a hothouse of psychological trauma CONSTANTLY reinforcing false narratives of exclusive slavery on every topic from housing to health!
That ish must stop! I said it before and I reiterate-US blacks aren’t solely the descendants of slaves. IMO we should investigate this before wallowing in the slave chronicles.
Oh. So, blogs like mine are much worse than slavery which seems to be the only thing that happened against Africans and African Americans in this country. So I guess other forms of oppression like the Black Codes, Jim Crow, segregation, the War on Drugs, Stop and Frisk, police brutality and murders, and any and all forms of anti-black institutional and personal racism didn’t happen.
Kay, it’s clear you don’t know what we feel. If you did, you would see that we are happy that there are places where we can voice our frustrations. Yet, you did ask a good question, a question I always ask people like you, WHY DO YOU COME HERE?
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@brothawolf
I found this place from diaryofanegress. Don’t get me wrong;you do discuss relevant issues but IMO get bogged down in obsessive ranting without searching for solutions.
Maybe,you’re right when you say I don’t know what you feel other than your collective angst ridden posts . US born in the early 70s I’ve been in Kenya since the 80s.
I come here seeing If I can help blacks find solutions by offering real history about the race of the majority US slave population,for example.
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@ Kay
Not sure what your complaint is. You have a) your own blog which you can run as you see fit, b) the freedom to discuss solutions here and even c) a guest post spot if you want it.
As to slavery, it IS most of Black American history. You cannot understand the present, much less offer good solutions, without it. If anything I do not talk about it nearly enough.
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@abagond
How could I guest spot as an urban middle class African? Though Black America and people like me have much in common, IMO we are an overlooked demographic on forums like this.
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@diaryofanegress: I can say the same about much of of the afro-Americans.
We give them freedom, they complain
We give them food, cloches, jobs, etc… they still complain always saying badly about white people but still runnig to catch our feet, imploring and using that “old excuse” again.
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I disagree about the “screw white guilt” part. If you had said “white guilt is not enough” then I’d agree.
Anger is great, it is a tool and it gets things done. On the other hand, anger and self-righteousness can go hand-in-hand. You may, unintentionally, be inviting people to join a mission that will make them feel smug and worthy. Anger can be enjoyable.
Maybe that’s not entirely a bad thing, but there is a role for guilt too. We white people need to look back as well as forwards. Some disgust and guilt at what we did in the past (and continue to do now) has its place. Future mistakes are partly avoided by being aware of, and uncomfortable about, past actions.
Anger and action are needed – those are the forces that will change stuff – but they can be informed by guilt, embarrassment and discomfort. I don’t present guilt as something deserving of a forgiving pat on the head, but as a source of motivation.
I also respectfully disagree with sondis. White people do not listen only to white people about racism. The white people who care about the issue will listen to a commentator of any colour. Racist white people won’t listen to *anyone*. In fact, as I know from experience, a white person calling out a racist person in a pub or restaurant will not be met with the same embarrassed silence that can occur when a black person speaks up. The white racist feels no embarrassment or fear in confronting an opponent of his own colour. He knows there will be no claim of hate crime or racial aggravation when he punches the nosy white guy in the head.
Racism in white communities in the UK is rife – although most if it is in denial to some extent. White people who tackle it don’t get listened to. They get labelled PC trouble makers.
Racists don’t listen to white critics of racism. Racists just don’t listen.
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I agree with Sondis and Trojanpam: Whites know exactly how society works and how most of their fellow whites think and behave when it comes to black people. They are playing ignorant to uphold a system and practices.
I also agree that we need to start changing ourselves so we are not so vulnerable to them and are instead, financially independent.
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All true points TROJANPAM!
————-
Re:
Your comment reminds me of a TV documentary i saw a month about about (white) people who thought they were vampires and this one white female claimed she fed on other people’s ENERGY instead of blood and they did an experiment where two guys had the kind of equipment that could measure (invisible) energy — so they claimed
and sure enough, to demonstrate her energy-draining “powers” she used a young black male as the “DONOR”
and as they watched on a monitor it appeared that the aura around her changed colors, indicating an energy transfer of some kind, from the young (and clueless) black male to that white female
I do believe there are invisible energy fields around us at all times AND that there is SOMETHING white people seek from non-white people on a SPIRITUAL and a PSYCHOLOGICAL level
Otherwise, why would whites continuing tread and mix and sex non-white people who MOST (didn’t say all) apparently despise? And why has every non-white culture’s spiritual and religious practices and beliefs been CO-OPTED and adopted by various groups of white people?
Why is there this obsession with non-white cultures and practices where entire university departments, programs, documentaries, magazines, etc are CREATED just to study non-white people? The same people who aren’t worth a damn?
because they study us to SEE what we have that they DON’T
On the flip side, most non-white people who have NEVER come into much contact with whites don’t seem all that interested or thrilled about knowing more about them
to them, whites may be different, but it’s NO BIG DEAL
that’s why the North American so-called “Native Americans’ didn’t slaughter or rape or enslave the first European invaders to that continent
they were like, cool, you’re here, what’s up, you hungry, here’s some grub, dig in and in the meantime, help yourself to whatever you need because none of this stuff belongs to anyone, it’s belongs to Mother Nature
and we know how the rest of that sad story goes
(which can be repeated in Africa, Australia, New Zealand, etc.)
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“…And race based slavery of Africans was only in the U.S…”
– – –
It might be surprising just how many people aren’t aware just how many countries in the Americas, such as Puerto Rico; Cuba; the Dominican Republic; Jamaica, Bermuda; the Bahamas; Barbados; Trinidad & Tobago; Martinique; Guyana; Brazil; Colombia; Venezuela etc., ALSO participated in the trans-Atlantic trade, and that many if not most of the individuals who call these countries home today, are at least partially descended from the enslaved Africans who were forcibly taken to these countries.
In many cases slaves were deposited in the Caribbean first and, after a period of time, a portion were taken from these islands and brought as slaves to the colonial states / US.
I myself had an autosomal DNA test done a few months back, and according to the results I have “DNA cousins” from Cuba, Jamaica and the Bahamas (and these are only amongst those individuals who tested with this one website).
As far as I know, my own ancestry is not from the Caribbean but goes back into the colonial era of US history, and beyond, wrt to my North American native heritage (and, as it turns out, I also have South American native ancestry). It seems that some of my African ancestors / kinfolk were left in the Caribbean, while others were brought to “America”.
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@ abagond
“80% of whites are still demonstrably racist”
I invite you to spend more time with my friends, church and co-workers that must make up the 20%.
What do we say when no black people are in the room? Same thing we say when there are no eskimos in the room- we talk sports, Duck Dynasty, news, politics, religion, laugh at ourselves, gripe about our spouses (who we love) and bad mouth Oakland Raider fans.
I’ve spent a couple of days thinking about this and I only recall three incidents in my last 5 years where black racism was demonstrated. 1.) Dirty joke told by a customer that I refuse to call on anymore (he is a racist bigot) 2.) My 84 year old father in the Mid-West referring to a man as colored (he was amazed and embarrassed when I explained to him it wasn’t currently OK to do so) and 3.) I personally was scared when my car broke down in a really tough part of town and two black guys ran up to my car to help. They both were wearing gang colors so my first thought was fear. I was very embarrassed of myself and apologized (as well as asked God for forgiveness).
I’m simply saying that your 80% isn’t the world I choose to embrace or tolerate. The world I live in is focused on helping as many people as I can with the resources I’ve been blessed with. We are a pretty fun bunch (although not very exciting, outspoken, or exotic)!
Hope you can find some of us in your neighborhood trying to set an example that would make a Man of color who lived 2000 years ago proud.
I await the “group” pile on that I’m a liar, self deluded, or busy defending myself because of my lack of color.
Be blessed.
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Racism is a lot more complex than whether or not white folk sit around talking about ‘the Nggers’.
I myself, admittedly, have sat around talking about ‘the Crack-rs’. However, if a white stranger dying in the street was in need of my assistance, I would help him, if I could.
If I recognized that dying white stranger as being Hitler, even that is not an automatic guarantee that I would not go ahead and help him anyway. I would definitely have to stop and think about what to do based on what I know about that particular person’s activities against the lives of others. And, though I cannot say exactly what I would do under those circumstances, what I can say is this: without a doubt, his race would certainly not be one of the deciding factors.
I am an atheist.
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@ Gina
It is tragic that so many blacks REFUSE to see the patterns of RACIST behavior that plays out OVER and OVER and OVER again whenever whites come into contact with black and non-white people.
This DENIAL is going to cost us AND our children and grandchildren dearly if we don’t open our eyes
Case in point, Oscar Grant, the young black male who was MURDERED by a white transit (toy) cop at the BART station in San Francisco in 2010 had an ALL-WHITE jury. Not a black person on the jury.
Compare that to Trayvon Martin, the 17-year-old black male who was murdered last year while holding a bag of SKITTLES by an adult non-black male with a 9MM
and the police DRUG-TESTED the DEAD BODY of Trayvon Martin but NOT the smoking gun holding Zimmerman.
and the jury for Trayvon Martin is made up of all WHITE FEMALES with the exception of an Hispanic female (who may or may not consider herself “white”)
Again, not a single black person on that JURY and I suspect Zimmerman may walk
The same pattern of INJUSTICE and RACISM is perpetuated OVER and OVER and OVER again while black people debate and argue about racism
while our CHILDREN are being PURGED from the school system
and our black youth (male and female) are being PURGED from society and sentenced to a LIFETIME of JIM CROW (due to felony convictions)
Read the book, “The New Jim Crow”
and the so-called Civil Rights Clock is turning backwards with higher unemployment, rising poverty rates, black high school dropouts increasing, black college graduates cleaning white people’s houses (because of a lack of opportunities),
black schools closing, 16-year old black girls being charged with a felony for a failed science experiment, a 6-year old black girl being handcuffed and arrested for “throwing a tantrum,”
and one can only wonder about the MENTALITY of black adults who are MORE CONCERNED with “integrating” with white folks than with saving our OWN children from racism — certainly, a HUGE SIGN of a people still in the grips of a slave mentality where we couldn’t protect our children
Read the book, “Black Love is a Revolutionary Act”
Multimillion dollar new prisons being built, and black males picking COTTON on the same land (Angola Prison) that our SLAVE ANCESTORS picked crops
Did you know the U.S. Constitution allows slavery in the case of those convicted of a crime?
YET black people are still debating with each other about what?
Racism? And fighting each other over our “right” to have sex with white people like that’s something new?
The white supremacists are laughing their butts off at our collective confusion and our INABILITY and REFUSAL to come together for our MUTUAL SURVIVAL due to our OWN anti-blackness, again a legacy from SLAVERY
Sadly, I fear we will REGRET this WRONG-HEADED THINKING in the coming days…
and for those who have convinced themselves that sex with white people represents progress OR is proof that whites who sex blacks can’t be racist
check this out
I’m out
http://bossip.com/793537/what-is-wrong-with-this-picture-239/
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@California Al
Even when you are patting yourself on the back some things come through.
– “my friends, church and co-workers that must make up the 20%.”
Those are all English-speaking white people? How do you know they are all part of the other 20%? Do they have mostly (or at least many) non-white friends, expose themselves to other than the majority white media, learn about the non-white side of American history (not about how non-whites impacted them or about the contributions that non-whites made to their culture). Do most of them live in neighborhoods LESS than 70% white (or even better, less than half white)?
– “What do we say when no black people are in the room? Same thing we say when there are no eskimos in the room”
So, I assuming that you do not discuss about blacks or Eskimos, or about anything besides white media and culture. The “other 20%” would discuss culture and media content from non-white sources, at least 20-30% of the time (including some of the stuff listed above).
– “I’ve spent a couple of days thinking about this and I only recall three incidents in my last 5 years where black racism was demonstrated.”
The other 20% would not have to think that hard. They would recall three incidents in the last day.
– “We are a pretty fun bunch (although not very exciting, outspoken, or exotic)!”
It seems that you are not even very aware how your own culture is distinctive and exotic to others. You think that your culture is “colour blind”, but even so, it does not mean it is not racist. If you were part of the other 20%, you would also be aware of and discuss your own distinctive and exotic culture.
– “Hope you can find some of us in your neighborhood trying to set an example that would make a Man of color who lived 2000 years ago proud.”
Sounds like some of the people in the neighborhood I used to live in. It was scary. They didn’t even realize that they were living in their own cultural bubble.
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@ Rebeca From Brazil
You are only giving back what you took away from them in the first place. Whites started the black dependency with slavery in which you gave them everything and worked them like a dogs for free. They gave lives and family to labor for little to nothing. Had blacks been left in their home land they would be working hard for all those things on their own.
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Now you want to complain because they won’t kiss your azz for it.
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@ California Al
“I invite you to spend more time with my friends, church and co-workers that must make up the 20%”—Considering the population i doubt you would know anywhere near 20% of whites. 1% maybe.
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@Sharina
I would ignore ”California Al” he or she is just a troll. I am sick and tired of them coming on here and posting their bigotry against Blacks. I am sick of it! I already have a enough to deal with, already!
Yes most White Americans are racist, does it make me a bad person for admitting the truth? No. It is true just from watching their actions, the way they walk and talk.
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How can Abagond know 80% if I don’t know 20%? Help me with the math. I went to public school in a four room shack so please be specific.
Or let’s jump all over him on the same point. (Please don’t, it wouldn’t move the discussion forward). Or better yet we can all be stand up enough to admit both of us were talking proportionally to the white population as a whole.
Jefe – About 25% of my non-fiction reading is by non-whites (Race Matters – West most currently) My neighborhood is about 25% white, 30% Hispanic, 25% Black, with the rest being Korean, Chinese, Iranian. I do realize that I live in a bubble and work to keep all types of bigotry out of my circle by correcting it when I see it. I don’t seek out the haters and try not to include them in circle. Hatefulness can be so malignant.
You’ve given me great food for thought, “Do I spend more time discovering the uniqueness of my “Ozark Hillbilly” ethnicity in order to be able to fully appreciate the uniqueness of others?” Great question to ponder. I’ve always approached it from spending more of my time trying to understand others instead of myself, but I’ll think it through. Appreciate the thought.
Sharina – no complaints by me, no azz kissing necessary. Common courtesy to a complete stranger is up to each of us.
Thank you both for your candid comments. Blessings!
I sleep OK at night when I try and mostly succeed in treating ALL others as well (or better) as I treat myself and my family. If I can pass that test regardless of sex, orientation, color, religion, mental/physical ability or economic circumstance and that doesn’t put me in the 20% category I’ll always be a racist/bigot in some eyes. I can only impact the part of the world that I encounter through my prayers, my actions, my vote, and my giving to others.
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`@b.r.
at it again huh, I see pattern regularly ,to me its yet another example of white/albinic privilege – freedom from needing or wanting to get to the point, the stolen free time (not having to earn a living etc),etc`
well, i sure missed this, i mean Mbheti, wtf do you mean not having to earn a living..i used to work 6 nights a week, 6 sets a night and saw the sun rise a whole lot more than i wanted to…I work like a dog now, I run my own production company and work for other people also…ive toured 3 contintents and have produced 2 Billboard Charting CD`s , some of this work was picked up and released by other companies…I work my @ss off and it is one he ll of a never ending struggle…I will probably have to work until the day i die…Im on tour right now and just mastered a CD in New York with my co producor…how can you be so wrong?
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@ Adeen
I don’t think California Al is a troll per se (at least not yet). He simply has been living in a bubble where people think that white people are basically good or at least mean well.
He “knows” that there are things outside the bubble and thinks that by admitting that there is something outside his bubble, then he is basically good. But, he could consider:
– not only acknowledging the bubble, but actually recognizing it – its parameters and the space it takes up
– recognizing the role we all have to play to correct the bad; Just by being “basically good” does nothing to fix that.
For example, he could read the books above and discuss them with his white friends. Then he would not have to struggle to recall 3 racist events over 5 years. He could have pointed out 3 events experienced or witnessed in the last 24 hours, and would have actually discussed that within his social circle.
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@B.R.
I’ve been reading some of your longer posts now that I have the time and also I’ve observed some of your
shorter posts, both your short and long comments show worthy insights in my view.
Also part of what I said was due to previous antagonisms we experienced as well as the fact that I was dealing with some stressful situations (or not effectively dealing with some stressful situations) at the time.
Therefore I apologize for any misinterpretations or unwarranted antagonism in regards to my comments about your comments.
And I will endeavor to be more circumspect in the future.
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TrojanPam’s comments make uncomfortable reading for a white man.
IMO they are amongst the most helpful comments here. They show how little has changed. TrojanPam listed some things of which I was aware (the Trayvon Martin situation and the little girl who got victimised for her experiment), but more of which I was ignorant.
The tone of rejection of engagement with white people is something I feel a reflex to challenge, but when stuff is catalogued like that… where the hell do I find any solid ground from which to argue?
You know, a large part of the problem, IMO, is not that all whites are racist or supremacist (though many clearly are), it is that we are simply living in blissful ignorance. We see a lot of stuff though skewed media reports. In the UK we don’t get to hear about a lot of the stuff that happens in the US. Although we have our own racism problems our country is so much smaller that we have difficulty grasping the scale of some issues that affect the US.
I think that many of us who consider ourselves to be non-racist find it difficult to admit that things are really still so bad. Not difficult to believe, mind you, but difficult not to block out. In our case, it is cowardice, and apathy, not direct racism.
My step-children are black/white mixed race. As much as anyone, I should face the hell up to stuff. Even if most of the problems are in the USA, it is only a matter of time before things drift across the pond. It *always* happens.
Thanks to TrojanPam for a wake up call. I hope I can keep my head out of the sand.
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Abagond, you have any advice for our obviously lesser culture and society? We are lesser now, but why must it always be that way? Can’t you forgive us in some good capacity? Why must we be the pathetic ones FOREVER. Aren’t we equal to you all?
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Uriel, you keep making VALUE judgments over behavioral analysis. If you belonged to a family that did something wrong, the right thing to do would be to simply acknowledge the wrongdoing, denounce the bad actors, and, to the best of your efforts, fight fir the wrong to be made right.
It’s not about your family being evil, its simply about changing their actions.
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But you all will never forgive me or will even remotely see me as an equal to you no matter what i do. Even tho i merely benefit from oppression. Also, you still haven’t accounted for the fact that American culture was built on genocide, puritanism, capitalism, and slavery and that’s all it’ll ever be- apparently.
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@Uriel:
Quit whingeing!
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Yeah, just be happy that your entire being is pathetic!
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Or at least will never be as good as pocs.
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@Uriel,
How can you forgive someone who continues to hurt you?
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Because i do absolutely none of it. I don’t kill, maim, scorn, or even steal from people. I just look like people who do.
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Uriel What if I went to a feminist blog? Might I not be confronted with certain unflattering facts about the male gender? Might I not find *some* women there who even hate me for being a male?
So What?
Seriously, you have to stop trying to find some kind of absolution from being White. MOST P.O.C do not hold YOU PERSONALLY responsible for the actions of other White people. MOST Black will people see you an equal human being to themselves. Stop worrying about those who don’t. It’s the exact same thing as we have to do to get through our lives. There is really no more to it than that.
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@ Uriel
This might be a helpful read for you or not? 😉
—>https://medium.com/@johnmetta/i-racist-538512462265
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Interestingly how easily black people can be manipulated into “comforting” white people and reassuring them that “we” (i..e. black people) don’t hold individual whites personally responsible for racism — as though racism is practiced by a nameless faceless mob of whites rather than a collection of dedicated and determined white INDIVIDUALS.
I seriously doubt black people don’t know that white INDIVIDUALS are indeed practicing racism because certainly when we are confronted with racism who is practicing it? A white individual or group of individuals. One more tip-off is: look how most black people change the moment a white INDIVIDUAL steps into a room of black people.
Black people — try as we might and lie as we might — immediately become acutely aware of that white person and will alter our behavior in some way (we become quieter or louder; or will use bigger words or say things we think make us look better, i.e., more intelligent, will say something negative about black or poor people to separate ourselves from the black ‘masses’, or will become more accommodating and sometimes even visibly more submissive). Why? Because we know (deep down) that white person is the most powerful person in that room in a system of white supremacy.
Yet, we will reassure whites and even lie to ourselves that we don’t “judge” them. What we seem reluctant and even afraid to say is we sure as heck FEAR them as though fear and mistrust are abnormal reactions to CENTURIES of white oppression
I suspect some whites are rolling with laughter at the naivete and false denials of blacks as they lead us around the old plantation dance floor of comforting and placating and education them as though whites are the ones who need education about racism (?)
When these same said whites who seeks “absolution” are STILL BENEFITING and probably still PRACTICING racism all while denying – which is a form of racism in itself.
They know this little dance of black denial actually strengthens the system of racism/ white supremacy the same way an abused spouse tries to focus on the ‘good qualities” of her or his abuser, thinking, “if I’m nicer to him or her, they’ll be nicer to me” when clearly that is NOT the way this world works.
An empowering and self-respecting reaction to racism is to CALL IT OUT no matter who it offends and stop letting the people practicing it off the hook.
It means getting out of denial, stop trying to “educate” whites about something we clearly do not understand ourselves (or we wouldn’t be playing these same old word games that get us nowhere) — and educating ourselves and our children by TELLING THE TRUTH about racism.
because the reality is — while black people get deeper into denial, the old style racism is increasing rearing its ugly head (even to the tune of slaughtering blacks in churches) – and so we will be forced to ask ourselves the question:
what are we going to do to survive in this nation where black labor and black life are becoming obsolete — besides talk, march, sex, and appease whites?
Incidents like the link below are a more accurate predictor of the way the real black world works. We can keep playing word games or we can get serious about our survival in an increasingly hostile white nation.
go to youtube and search
Philadelphia Cops Tase Man While He Screams for His Grandma
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Alrighty, thank you King, Kiwi, and Lifelearner. I can’t take antipathy from the good people in the world. I mean, i don’t trust a white person’s claim they’re an ally until some poc verify them. If you know any still active allies who know their worth on racism, lemme know and i’ll leave you be.
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@ Uriel
See:
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