The following is based on Dr Beverly Tatum’s excellent book, “Why Are All The Black Kids Sitting Together in the Cafeteria?” (1997):
According to Dr Beverly Tatum growing up white in America goes something like this, though please note that most whites never get beyond the first stage:
- contact: you are just normal. It is people from other races and ethnicities who are different. You think American society is fair, pretty much. You are not racist, you do not see a person’s colour. They could be purple for all you care. Except for the Klan and some skinhead nuts, racism is a thing of the past. Blacks are making a big deal out of nothing.
- dis-integration: you have an experience that shows you plain as day that America is racist and unfair. Like maybe your black boyfriend getting pulled over by the police for no good reason. It wakes you up: you start noticing all the white racism that you had been blind to all your life. But this leads to discomfort, anger, shame and guilt. So most likely you will shut off your mind to the whole racism thing. Case closed. But if you do not:
- re-integration: you become anti-racist, but since most whites are racist, you find yourself slowly becoming an outcast. The easiest thing would be to just let it go. And so you do: you tell yourself that blacks or Latinos are to blame for their troubles, etc. Most likely that will be the end of the matter, but sometimes it is not:
- pseudo-independent: you still cannot shake the idea that America is racist and unfair. Now you wish you were not white! To escape the shame and guilt you try to become part of the black world or some other world of colour. But it does not work: They do not understand what you are going through, so they cannot help. The shame and guilt remain.
- immersion/emersion: only whites can help you and only those who have already been through it all. They are known as white allies. America is too racist to sing their song, but they are out there. They become your support group. They will help you to unlearn your racism and to fight the good fight against it in American society. Your shame and guilt go away at last.
- autonomy: you can mix freely with people of other races and see them as individuals and yet still as members of their race. You are still white but now with a much deeper and more solid understanding of what that means.
So it is possible for whites to move past their racism, but it is way harder than you would suppose because it means being something of an outcast, unfortunately.
Jews and white gays have little trouble getting to stage 2, but then have a harder time getting past stage 3 because they do not like owning up to their whiteness: “I am not like other whites”. In some ways, yes, but in other ways, no.
See also:
- books (especially for the immersion stage):
- Morris Dees: “A Season of Justice”
- Virginia Foster Durr: “Outside the Magic Circle”
- Lois Stalvey: “The Education of a WASP”
- growing up black
- racelessness
- colour-blind racism
- All whites are racist – well, nearly all
- How white people think
- “Some of my best friends are black”
Abagond 
I think this is true, for the most part. Except I have never felt shame or guilt for being white, I look out into the world and I do become upset or angry when I see acts of racism, but I have never felt ashamed or guilty for being white, I have never treated people negatively because of race, actually, I hardly ever treat anyone negatively. So no I am not ashamed of myself.
LikeLike
I was afraid this post would not get much comment: most whites never get beyond stage one and would not even see themselves as being in stage one.
The first two stages sound right to me – most whites are blind to racism but a few get it because of some experience they had. The rest make sense but I cannot say I have ever met anyone in any of those stages, though some commenters here seem to be in stage 3.
LikeLike
Yeah, I was kinda waiting for people to respond as this is the first I’ve heard about it and parts of it is a mystery to me. I wanted to hear what others, especially those who are ‘white’, had to say.
>I cannot say I have ever met anyone in any of those stages
Wow. That’s sad. But I can assure you they exist. I have friends like that. One is currently in New York at Columbia U. Yes, in your own backyard. He speaks about 5 or 6 languages, and is not an American though. Swiss. He’s white, but when I talk to him I feel as though I’m talking to an Asian. Not that he acts like an Asian, but I think it just means that that’s how comfortable I am with him, as in I can see no difference between him and me except that we’re different individuals. (I’m technically Asian btw.) I know of a white Canadian guy like that who more or less only speaks English, but then again he’s of a migrant background. (Obviously we all have some sort of prejudice or another, but as long as we’re willing to unlearn them, it’s fine.) But my point is, they do exist. And many of them. Hope that gives you some hope. It’s probably a matter of looking in the right places for them (since they probably don’t feel all that comfortable in mainstream spaces either as Tatum suggests).
Speaking of which, I’ve often found Europeans are often more open-minded, but that could also be because I meet them in English speaking settings where they are also in a minority position.
Anyway, there is something I find difficult to understand. Why all the shame and guilt? Where did this come from?
My white friends who are least prejudiced will happily accept that widespread subtle racism exists. When I tell them about incidents with racial overtones, they will just laugh and say, Yeahhh, ppl are prejudiced alright. They don’t take it personally. Hence no shame and guilt. Once they laugh and accept it, the case is closed. We just move along to the next topic. Or even when I call them out on their own racism, if they don’t understand which part of it is racist, then they’ll argue with me. But once they understand what I’m talking about, they’ll accept it and we move on. No shame or guilt. They’ll also call me out on my prejudices. I accept and we move on. No shame, no guilt.
But there are also those who let guilt take the upper hand. Then they will go to great lengths to deny it…even when I’m not talking about anyone they know.
I think in many other societies there is much less shame/guilt associated with racism. This doesn’t necessarily mean there is less racism. People can be pretty blatant about racism. But it’s easier to call them out on it…maybe. I can only remember two times when I called it out on a couple of Japanese (quite harshly too coz I got ticked off, so it was on impulse and I wasn’t thinking) they totally changed. (I was surprised too because I felt bad for being so harsh with my words.) But I didn’t sense any shame/guilt in the exchange.
Anyway, I do find this shame and guilt difficult to understand as it hasn’t been a large part of my own experience (at least not that I know of). Can someone help me understand – Why the shame and guilt?
LikeLike
Wow this really is the sort of things I have been through…with one exception, being white-mixed race I have experienced racism first hand on myself…something a pure white would never experience
at the same time I would never claim to know I know exactly what it’s like, as I can ‘pass for white’ (until they hear my name or ask about my ethic origins)
LikeLike
I’ve spent a day thinking about this and haven’t come up with a concise comment. Part of the difficulty for me is that this post, like its companion before, smacks of the sort of pop psychology that brings out the evil critic in me. Little can incite my scorn quicker than pop-psy.
Part stems from the fact that the white community is vast and this post addresses only a narrow spectrum of whites. Some whites grow up never thinking about race at all, except perhaps in the most abstract sense when they see something about race on the evening news. It’s very possible in many parts of this nation to grow up as a white person and never, not once, be confronted personally with any issue of race. For these people, this post would never apply. They never even enter phase 1 (“Contact”).
My early life would be a partial example of this. I grew up in a tiny town in a very geographically isolated corner of the nation. This was in the 1960’s, before mass electronic communication like we have now. Much of our local TV and radio programming was in the Finnish language (which I did not speak) and was very local. There were zero non-caucasian people in my region. I never contacted any people of any ethnicity other than white until the age of 18, when I went to military boot camp. There, most of the blacks I encountered were from big cities like Chicago or Detroit, as were most of the whites. It was readily apparent that, among these people, there was in place a complicated set of deep-seated codes about race and interaction between the races. The code to me was befuddling and opaque because I had never, not once, encountered it before then.
At the other end of the spectrum are whites who grow up in racially mixed families who are confronted with race from a very young age. Keep in mind that both posts of this pair ignore the effect of older siblings. In other words, a young person with an older (black) sibling will be exposed to the “stages” of race awareness at a much younger age. I know whites who have grown up with older black sibs and/or black parents. From a very young age these people are extremely race aware and proactive about reducing racism.
Thus, this post is apt, some times, for some people. Same with its sibling post.
LikeLike
Abagond:
Wait, are you saying that it’s me who is stuck in stage 3. Thats not nice, I do not blame blacks or latinos for the ill treatment they are given, ofcourse some problems people have are brought about by themselves, but thats in EVERY race, an example would be a woman who allows her man to beat up on her, and doesn’t do anything about it, when she obviously could, people do stupid things and it causes them turmoil, but its not limited to certain races. I do recgonize “white privlege” and I do believe some or alot of the problems the black and latino races faces is because of this.
LikeLike
Leah:
I did not mean you in particular. When I said some commenters “here” seem to be in stage 3, I mean on this blog as a whole, not just this post. I did not see the ambiguity till just now. My apologies.
LikeLike
Blanc2:
I do not think the stage model in this post or the sister post about blacks is meant to apply to absolutely every white person or every black person. People being what they are, there are all kinds of exceptions. Like people who grow up in mixed families or in out-of-the-way places. But they are meant to cover at least most cases. In my own experience the first two stages seem to cover most white people I know.
LikeLike
Jhem:
I am going to do a post on “growing up biracial” too!
LikeLike
>like its companion before, smacks of the sort of pop psychology
Pop psychology? It’s the first time I’ve heard of the white version, but the black version is definitely not pop psychology. It’s based on academic research. Obviously academic research isn’t absolute truth, but it wouldn’t be fair to dismiss it as pop psychology without looking into it first.
William Edward Cross (Psychologist – Princeton, Cornell, U of Massachusetts) was the first who came up with the black identity development model in the 1970s, and it’s still being used by researchers. Jean S. Phinney (Professor of Psychology, CSULA) writes about a model for ethnic identity development which looks similar in some ways.
LikeLike
Btw, has anyone ever asked around what the ‘bad guys’ look like in people’s dreams? For some people who come from countries where the cops are notorious for corruption, the bad guys almost always look like cops.
I’ve also heard one person described the bad guys in his dreams and it was obvious how his latent racial prejudice came up in his dreams. I said nothing, but I was wide-eyed when I heard of his dream. So I’m just curious what it’s like for others.
LikeLike
Right, the model in “growing up black” comes from William Cross, though Tatum may have changed it a bit. The one in this post comes from Janet Helms, but again by way of Dr Tatum.
LikeLike
You forgot one thing: Discipline.
No one ever tells you right from wrong or reprimands you for bad behavior. For the ones that do get punished it’s nothing to actually correct the behavior.
LikeLike
ALL WHITES SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF THEMSELVES PERIOD!!!!
LikeLike
@Nubian Queen – that’s a uncalled for.
LikeLike
i only have one white friend who i’d say is maybe at stage 2, the rest are probably at stage one and i’d say atleast acouple of my friends are closet racists, but dont realize it…
LikeLike
i had a couple teachers both english teachers who i think were atleast at stage 5, both white male english teachers
LikeLike
I am sorry to see this article didn’t get much comments. (Does this mean there aren’t many white people here?)
I am white, but I live in all white country, so I tend to see myself as raceless. This practically mean that my brain does see white as “neutral”. That’s not something I can
On the other hand, I never though of being white as “normal” and other people “unusual”. The advantage of growing up in all white country is that you don’t face with many stereotypes about different races, so, while you do see themselves as different than you, you don’t associate that difference with bad stereotypes. Actually, I am still learning about some of the stereotypes that I had no idea they existed (black women want sex all the time, and so do Brazilian women, and Asian women are submissive… Hmmm, way to many stereotypes about women. And black people being more aggressive, etc). I am not saying there aren’t stereotypes, but they’re not as specific.
On the other hand, I am not sure I am able to feel any white guild (or white privilege), so maybe I do see myself as someone who isn’t “like other whites”.
LikeLike
I am a young white male from a West-European country, with a Liberal Arts Degree. I think I can say I more or less went through all the stages described above, although my road to autonomy was somewhat different. I grew up in a non-white, lower-class neighbourhood, where none of my friends were part of white culture. Also, by my non-white friends, I wasn’t considered being part of typical white culture: although he is white and I lived with my mother, my father has a different nationality than that of the country I live in, so I was referred to as having that nationality. Unlike most white people in my country, we were religious, just like most of my non-white friends were. So in some aspects, I also was an outcast.
Only later, when my family moved to a small ‘white’ village and I went to university in one of the biggest cities of my country, I was confronted with white culture. Suddenly, I was considered a member of white middle and upper class culture by the people at the 99% white university. I accepted this role for a while, but after some time I decided that by doing this I wasn’t being my authentic self. I didn’t know this Liberal Arts, color blind racist, white culture. It is only the last few years that I have educated myself in things like color blind racism, racism without racists, New racism etc. and have been able to see how white culture works from the ‘white’ side, that I am considered being part of by others.
LikeLike
This is an old post, but I’m commenting anyway because it perfectly describes my experiences.
I started reading anti-racism blogs when I was about 16 — I was at stage 1 then (or maybe in the negatives). In fact, the first anti-racist post I read was one of yours — the “all whites are racist” one, I believe. I remember feeling angry and resentful, and I tried to convince myself that you were the one with the problem, not me. But deep down I knew you were right; I just didn’t want to face it.
It took two years of reading your blog and others like it (I’m 18 now) to get to where I am now (stage 4-5ish). This is… slow progress, admittedly. I’ll be looking at the books you reccommended and I’ll certainly continue to read your blog.
LikeLike
Wow! Great news. And for me, encouraging.
LikeLike
Step 5 seems to me like it is running back into your own little (white) corner of the world to escape from the discomfort of having to do anti-racist work with people of other races. But, I could be wrong. Why does being a true anti-racist require that you unite with white people rather than working with a variety of people?
LikeLike
Chriistyl:
Because in step 4 you tried it the other way and it did not work. The only ones who can truly help you are other whites who have already been through the same thing. Whites in America have way more racism to overcome than people of colour:
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2010/05/26/can-white-americans-be-unracist/
LikeLike
as far as what i understand from this post whites are raised to be racist. their culture surrounds racism. i had this very same thought before but i could only come with stage one. being born black and you come across countless episodes of racism. it came to my mind. when i ask myself why are white people like that. i know some white parents had to try not to pass on this kinda mindset to their children. because it have a downside. some of them that i came across don’t give a rats ass.
here is a story
i was working at a company as a file clerk alongsidethis whitegirl she was a file clerk too. i am not a talkitive type of girl especially to outsiders. anyway she talk to me about her boyfriend everyday a black guy and i would give her my opinion. she said her parents didn’t like him because he was black and etc. somedays i didn’t want to talk about the situation because its racist and it just put you in a mood. she was a young girl and her conversation wasn’t on my level too. she got affended because i wasn’t really intrested in her periode, to be close friends so she was upset. anyway it was a perdominately white office. she gave them the impression that i was bothering or bullying her. you know angry black women. they all bought it even the mix girl and the hispanic girl that worked there. she and her click that harass me in different ways. anyway one day words exchange and this girl said she was going to slap me and started crying . the boss and few workers was standing there. i rephrase to her in a question your going to slap me. i look over my shoulder because she sure enough wasn’t going to slap me and don’t expect anything to happen. my aunt work there she was calming me down. and i couldn’t show my aunt up . so i said to myself let it go. when i heard the boss said way to go donna for standing up for yourself. i couldn’t believe that shit. anyway eventually they fired me . but like a year later that girl got my number from my aunt and appologize to me for everything. she said the manager and this other girl was influencing her to do those things. but this was after she cried wolf. and lost my job. my point is i was never mean or bullyed this girl. but a whole office of people sided with her without knowing what my side of the story was. i thought about this when i read stage one. it said you are normal it something wrong with people from other races.
but i consider myself to be attractive and i think thats what bothered them too was the fact that i knew it, the boss gave me the suductive looks i wasn’t intrested and i think the girls was jealous.
excuse my spelling
LikeLike
I kind of agree. I am White, but I am a redhead, so I’ve always been self-conscious. I thought that something was wrong with me, that I was attracted to Black guys. But I never put much thought into race and White priviledge, until I dated a Togolaise man for 4-years. People would stare and give me funny looks and I’d go the restroom, but I never saw anything in the mirror. We got followed at stores and were refused service at a restaurant and got kicked out of clubs and were treated like we were on fire at a concert and my co-workers asked me about the s– (Well, is it true your husband is tiny) and if he had AIDS and about his baby mama and drugs…and our cars got vandelized and all of my friends suddenly had amnesia and didn’t recognize me anymore and he got pulled over twice for being in my neighborhood after dark… Talk about an eye-opening experience. Now, I am seeing a biracial guy and both of us know better than to go to anything “White”, like a country bar or a fancy restaurant or a country concert or really anything after dark or with drunk White people… I have precisely two female friends and their husbands are Black. I am only 23, so the crap I thought ended ages ago really didn’t. Now, I treat everyone the way I would want to be treated and I feel well-rounded, but I can be White and have my priviledge or I can wear my scarlet letter, I straddle the line, but I definitely learned to treat people better and that is a lesson I wish everyone learned… But when I was in Haiti, the other White people were so self-conscious of being White and I was unphased.
LikeLike
Revisited this page in a roundabout way, on the topic of positive White identity arising in your Kil Ja Kim article (Is the White anti-racist an oxymoron). Interestingly, all the top google hits for the term “positive white identity” return discussions of the Helms/Tatum 6 stages that I first heard described as such… right here on your website. Quite the repository of human knowledge you’re building!
So those discussions expand on stage 6 as being one where a “positive White identity” is attained. A long of way of getting around to saying that I think your phrasing here is really very apt: You are still white but now with a much deeper and more solid understanding of what that means. To me this is a more helpful explanation of the goal of the self-understanding process, for people as easily confused as myself, than the terms “White identity” or “White pride” which seem to evoke the bad old days of racial essentialism.
LikeLike
Yes, those terms are problematic since, at least from my point of view, they have good and bad senses.
In terms of these stages, Kim is proposing whites go to Stage 4, which is repellent to those at the earlier stages, unnecessary for those at later stages and isolating for those who are in it.
LikeLike
Hmm well, I would be more charitable to Kim that she is summoning whites to Stage 6 but not really giving them very actionable advice on how to get there. I’d also say that while the 6 stages are pretty solid rough outline, I’m not sure that stage 5 has to be mediated by white people for white people. Certainly it isn’t anyone else’s responsibility (hence Kim’s -dare I say it – tone). But I think it is possible for a white person to move to stage 6 in a sufficiently welcoming community of color. In my experience these would be faith-based communities.
LikeLike
I think most white people who marry non-whites and esp. those that have children with them will get to stage 2, and many even will go beyond to stage 3 or 4. But few will make it to the end even if their kids are non-white.
I think my mother hit stage 2 as soon as she started dating my Dad, and *almost* made it to stage 6 sometimes, but then sometimes would just revert to stage 5, or even back to Stage 3. I can’t say exactly what stage she ended up in.
LikeLike
Where would one find “white allies?”
LikeLike
I don’t think you will find them in some publicly advertised meetup venue, but one should eventually run into them since they would end up in similar situations as the other ones who find themselves in Stage 4.
LikeLike
100% true. Abagond you spoke of support group for white allies I would love to check that out in stuck in-between step three and four and I have been trying to break threw it but I need help. Do you know how to get in touch with them.
LikeLike
All true.
LikeLike
“re-integration: you become anti-racist, but since most whites are racist, you find yourself slowly becoming an outcast”.
That’s true. At first you guard what you say around certain company. You call all blatant racism when you run into it but let the subtler stuff go. If your doing business and a client says something racist you have to decide whether you really want their business or not.
On facebook you can say what you want and expect to be defriended. I think facebook hit a defriending high when the Trevon Martin verdict went down. I’m part of the “Liberty” movement and a large part of that movement is either consciously racist or stuck in “Contact.”
Anarchists are more anti-racist then Libertarians are because Anarchy recognizes racism as a hierarchy. Libertarians think the “free market” will solve racism so they ignore it.
“only whites can help you and only those who have already been through it all. They are known as white allies. America is too racist to sing their song, but they are out there. They become your support group.”
I have facebook allies. I live near downtown L.A. and you’d think I’d have White friends with a similar world but I don’t. Most of the people I work with and work for are either POC or from another country.
LikeLike
I feel no personal guilt for the racism that I know exist in America. (I am white) I feel shame for my country and what has been don re against blacks in particular. Being a souther America , I know racism exist today. While I hate it I am not responsible for it.
I am responsible to see it and to empathize with those who still suffer from it. I am responsible to call it out when I see it and to realize I may not be aware of it. I want things to change and I want to be part of the answer and not the problem.
LikeLike
Getting to number 6 by going through an “anti-racist” path is not the only way to get to number 6. It might be an inefficient way to get to number 6. Anti racism seems to be a big intellectual excursion for some commenters rather than a humanist activity. When I see old photographs of whites participating with blacks and others in the Civil Rights protests, I never think, “oh look, ‘anti racist’ white people.” I just think, “ah, people who are doing a decent thing, because they know that the other people in their society are just that: people.”
Malcolm didn’t accept all people as people until he saw whites in Mecca, sincerely and earnestly practicing Islam and doing so in a genuinely brotherly way.
Major transformations involve the heart and the head and some other things besides.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Malcolm didn’t accept all people as people until he saw whites in Mecca, sincerely and earnestly practicing Islam and doing so in a genuinely brotherly way.
Islam, the most brutally misogynistic, anti-tolerant religious/political/military ideology in widespread practice today. Wow. Yet Islam is offered as some kind of example of goodness? Wow. And by the way, whites are excluded from the Nation of Islam,
It’s always a surprise to the Fruit of Islam selling “The Final Call” on Harlem street corners or in the subway stations when I ask for a copy. There isn’t a hint of brotherly love in that paper.
LikeLike
Islam, the most brutally misogynistic…
That’s as much of your comment as I read.
LikeLike
@ Legion
As we both know I don’t always agree with your comments… However, that last one concerning transformation through the heart and head is definitely one I would agree with.
It also clearly highlights the gulf of understanding between yourself and sb32199. Someone stubbornly unable to bridge that gap through head alone!
For those of us who understand science. Research will show that the heart understands far more in terms of communication than the Brian. And can also communicate faster and more efficiently too. Its the heart which acts as a translator for the Brian. Not the other way round!
Just this one basic realisation can explain why racism can be so difficult to grasp for most head centred white people! A heart centred person would not require umpteen different explanations in repeated discussions to even then still not “get it”….😴
LikeLiked by 2 people
@Legion
Lol
LikeLike
Kiwi:
Say what?
LikeLike
You’re right. Not just that. This quote give the another person awareness and time to change masks for their friend/cousin/dad or whoever asian or black’s friend. Example-David’s uncle is racism. David would tell his uncle about his special black friend is coming for dinner
LikeLike
I have never felt guilty for being white. I have felt rage, shame, sorrow and consternation over the way this country and many whites have treated and still treat African American citizens. I know racism exist today and I often call attention to it because it is WRONG! I can’t help that I was born white. I can help fight racism by staying informed, empathetic and realizing I don’t know everything. I can also speak out against racism in any form. Lisa
LikeLike
this sounds similar to munubuntu’s post over on dolezal
LikeLike
my oldest (white) always went to sit with the black kids in preschool
LikeLike
Perhaps one thing is missing: a legit culture, particularly one with music. Our culture (Anglo-American) is wrong and evil, yet we’re supposed to embrace it? Our ancestors gave up their realness for shallow capitalism and we’re supposed to be happy? We have no non-stolen music, and we should be jumping for joy? I’m thinking of becoming a pirate or a gothic or something just because standard anglo-american culture is nothing but faults while british culture is just unrelatable from an american. Why can’t you let us have some of your innovations, poc? Our ‘actual’ stuff is evil and should be shamed.
LikeLike
Five years ago, I commented on this post asking about how to find White allies. At that stage in my life, I was developing an increasingly diverse social group and becoming more aware of how damaging racism in America can be. I felt like I was one of the only White people who noticed the issue and wanted to discuss it.
While I am not at all a fan of Donald Trump, one positive outcome of his presidency is that way more White people in my area seem horrified by American racism and want to find better solutions to the problem. I went from having maybe a few discussions a year about racism to sometimes having a few a week! Even people who laughed at Trump during his candidacy have become shocked and disgusted by the extent of his hateful idiocy.
As mentioned in the list above, I once felt ashamed of being White and wished to be something else. Now that racism is a common topic of conversation, I see more clearly how White people can play a positve role in race relations by speaking up for those who are disadvantaged. At the same time, as the list also mentions, I am getting better at seeing non-White people as individuals who are not just pitiable members of a downtrodden race. I used to be afraid to acknowledge flaws in darker-skinned people for fear of seeming racist, but now I realize it’s better to be honest and view all people as a mix of positive and negative qualities. There are people of every race and ethnicity who deserve to be criticized, even if their overall group needs to be defended from prejudice.
I certainly wouldn’t claim to now be some enlightened expert, but I think my understanding of race relations has been able to develop further in the current political climate than it would have otherwise. I bet the same goes for a lot of other White people too. Trump’s presidency has definitely exposed the dark side of American culture, for better and for worse.
LikeLike
Paige said,
“I certainly wouldn’t claim to now be some enlightened expert, but I think my understanding of race relations has been able to develop further in the current political climate than it would have otherwise. I bet the same goes for a lot of other White people too. Trump’s presidency has definitely exposed the dark side of American culture, for better and for worse.”
I think that for a lot of white liberals there is an assumption that once Trump leaves office the racism in the country will leave with him. All we need in the White House is the right white liberal and the country goes back to “normal”.
The “dark side” was always there and maybe Trump emboldened some to express themselves more freely. I don’t see racism going away or more whites becoming “anti racist” in spite of demographic changes.
I think racism will be on the rise because whites won’t want to give up the culture of supremacy thay have been born and raised in. Whites will claim they are not racist but don’t expect any meaningful power sharing politically even amongst liberals.
LikeLiked by 1 person
@ michaeljonbarker
Do you have any thoughts on how it might be possible to change the mindset of white people to no longer value that culture of supremacy?
LikeLike
I think racism will be on the rise because whites won’t want to give up the culture of supremacy thay have been born and raised in. Whites will claim they are not racist but don’t expect any meaningful power sharing politically even amongst liberals.
Bingo!
LikeLike
“I think that for a lot of white liberals there is an assumption that once Trump leaves office the racism in the country will leave with him. All we need in the White House is the right white liberal and the country goes back to ‘normal’.”
I, for one, don’t believe that racism will magically disappear once a better president is in office. Racial divisions have been present in the Americas since the 1400s. Ethnic prejudice of some sort has probably existed for hundreds of thousands of years. Like sexism, homophobia, poverty, theft, assault, and many other human problems, racism and ethnocentrism are unlikely to ever totally be solved. Still, we can work on minimizing their impact on our society, in order to make a better world for everyone.
“The ‘dark side’ was always there and maybe Trump emboldened some to express themselves more freely. I don’t see racism going away or more whites becoming ‘anti racist’ in spite of demographic changes.”
I don’t think White people are becoming anti-racist mainly because of demographic changes, but because of how Trump has emboldened many very racist people to express themselves more freely. The hate speech and stupidity is enough to horrify some White people who were previously complacent in regard to racial issues.
“I think racism will be on the rise because whites won’t want to give up the culture of supremacy thay have been born and raised in. Whites will claim they are not racist but don’t expect any meaningful power sharing politically even amongst liberals.”
I think racism already is on the rise in those White people who identify very strongly with their race. However, as I was saying before, I know that many other White people are disgusted by their behavior and want to pull the country in the opposite direction.
As for meaningful power sharing, I believe the process will be gradual but significant. In the 1960s, it was controversial to have a Catholic president, but now that level of prejudice seems laughable. People like Obama, Harris, and Ocasio-Cortez may seem like outsiders now, but in the future I think politicians like them will be seen as perfectly normal. After all, America is getting darker-skinned, and at the same time the minority ethnic groups of those politicians (Kenyan, Jamaican, Indian, and Puerto Rican) are gradually assimilating into the mainstream culture and becoming more successful.
It will be increasingly difficult for most White people to see those groups as being inferior to them once everyone is part of a more blended culture. It’s hard to imagine a White supremacist with, say, a Kenyan financial advisor, a Jamaican boss, a half-Indian grandchild, and a Puerto Rican pastor. That’s not to say that the White person would be completely free of all prejudice, just that extreme racism would be unlikely.
Of course, these changes will probably take a long time to fully develop. For all we know, the US may not even be one country by then. Race is just one issue out of many that are currently tearing the country apart.
LikeLike
Paige said,
“I, for one, don’t believe that racism will magically disappear once a better president is in office.”
You are woke so I wasn’t referring to you. I think some in the media think so.
Paige said,
“The hate speech and stupidity is enough to horrify some White people who were previously complacent in regard to racial issues.”
While its true that Trump is boarish most Americans have just
LikeLike
I accidentally posted before I finished.
Most Americans just tune Trump and the major news media out. But I don’t see Trumps racism bringing about more “allies”.
Paige said,
“It will be increasingly difficult for most White people to see those groups as being inferior to them once everyone is part of a more blended culture.”
It is that way now in large cities. The demographic changes that will be happening over the next few years will be in large cities, less so in areas that are mostly white and are currently Trump stronghold areas.
Paige said,
“People like Obama, Harris, and Ocasio-Cortez may seem like outsiders now, but in the future I think politicians like them will be seen as perfectly normal”.
You can’t compare Obama with Ocasio-Cortez. Obama was establishment and Ocasio-Cartez, Democartic Socialist. The recent midterm elections did not bode well for the Democratic Socialists running against the establishment incumbents.
If the U.S. swung Socialist next election the country would still be racist. Economic idiologies have no effect on ridding the country of its cultural supremacy.
Paige said,
“Of course, these changes will probably take a long time to fully develop.”
I agree with this. I don’t think I will see it in my life time.
Solitaire wondered if I had any ideas on how to change white peoples mind set. I don’t know if that’s possible. People may think Trump is racist compared to themselves but in the end white people are not going to want to give up the privileges they have grown up in and have become accustomed too.
LikeLike
@ michaeljonbarker
I don’t know, I kind of think we have a duty to try to “wake up” other white people.
LikeLike
@Solitaire
Of course we are to resist evil. Those of us whose lives are intimately intertwined with people who are not white, who have workers, coworkers, friends, family ect standing up is a natural thing to do.
It could be my age makes me more cynical in regards to solutions but yes we have a duty.
LikeLike
“Most Americans just tune Trump and the major news media out. But I don’t see Trumps racism bringing about more ‘allies’.”
Maybe it depends on which part of the country you’re talking about. In my (liberal) area, I have definitely noticed an uptick in outrage about racism and other forms of prejudice. I know many people who follow the news almost obsessively, and most of them are extremely critical of Trump. At times it kind of seems like a contest of who can mock the president’s latest quote first.
“It is that way now in large cities. The demographic changes that will be happening over the next few years will be in large cities, less so in areas that are mostly white and are currently Trump stronghold areas.”
Again, it may depend on the specific location. When I was a kid, cities used to be the only truly diverse places in my area, but now I see a visible mix of races and ethnicities in random small suburban towns. Indian, Chinese (including Taiwanese), Brazilian, and Nigerian are relatively common ethnicities, though many others can also be found. Even when I was on vacation in the mountains of a very White state (New Hampshire), two hours from the nearest major city, I saw people who seemed to be Afro-Latino, East Asian, and Hasidic Jewish (even though the latter group is widely considered to be White, they were the ones whose presence surprised me the most, because I had not previously seen them outside of urban areas). Over the next several decades, I’m sure the diversification of formerly all-White towns will only increase.
“You can’t compare Obama with Ocasio-Cortez. Obama was establishment and Ocasio-Cartez, Democartic Socialist. The recent midterm elections did not bode well for the Democratic Socialists running against the establishment incumbents.
If the U.S. swung Socialist next election the country would still be racist. Economic idiologies have no effect on ridding the country of its cultural supremacy.”
I mentioned those politicians because they’re all Black or something close to it, not because they necessarily espouse similar political beliefs. Their popularity is a sign that sharing power is definitely possible. I agree that democratic socialism would not magically cure racism, though it might help mitigate some of the economic effects of racism.
“I don’t think I will see it in my life time.”
Maybe you will get to see small positive changes, though.
“Solitaire wondered if I had any ideas on how to change white peoples mind set. I don’t know if that’s possible. People may think Trump is racist compared to themselves but in the end white people are not going to want to give up the privileges they have grown up in and have become accustomed too.”
I think increasing numbers of White people are realizing that unnecessary racial divisions are one factor keeping Americans from uniting and fighting for better economic and social policies. Especially as White demographic domination fades away, the extreme racial insularity will seem less and less useful.
LikeLike
@solitaire all the reasons why are here, and i’ve been told so elsewhere
LikeLike