White American men seem to go for certain kinds of black women and not for others. The same is true for black men and white women, but that is another post.
I have not done any grand survey nor am I setting forth any iron rules – I know all white men are not alike. These are just some notes and observations of what I have noticed in New York.
If any black women or white men want to add their own general observations that would be great. If I have it all wrong, please tell me. I have some examples at the end. You can weigh in on them.
If you ask white men to name a beautiful black woman, most will name someone who is light-skinned, like Beyonce or Halle Berry. So you would think that among black women they would mainly go after light-skinned women. But the strange thing is they do not.
And yet they do prize whiteness in women, even in black women, but the whiteness they want is not as simple as skin colour. It is more in the general shape of her body – thin, maybe with large breasts, but not too big of a bottom. The features of her face can be black, but not too black. Hair, surprisingly, does not seem to matter that much. So it is not uncommon to see a white man with a dark-skinned black woman with natural hair.
Both black men and white men in America are affected by white ideas of female beauty, but they apply them to black women differently:
Black men apply it to skin colour (light) and hair (long and straight), but not so much to the shape of the body (still thick, though that seems to be changing).
White men are almost the opposite of that: they do not care so much about skin colour or hair – those who do apparently stick to white women – but they do care about the shape of the body and the features of the face.
Some examples:
Many white men would date these women: Iman, Jourdan Dunn, Gabrielle Union, Sanaa Lathan, Garcelle Beauvais, Lela Rochon, YaYa Da Costa, Angela Bassett, Kerry Washington, Aisha Tyler, any young black woman in an ad, in Playboy, any black weather girl or supermodel.
Most of these women have what I call a cutsie-pie face, like Gabrielle and Garcelle.
Way fewer white men would date these: Phylicia Rashad, Toccara Jones, Bria Myles, Estelle, Brandy Norwood, Adriana Bombom, Elise Neal, Latavia Roberson, Jill Marie Jones, Sade, Omotola, Liris Crosse, Angell Conwell, Heather Headley.
By dating I do not mean sex. I mean someone they would seriously show to their mother as their girlfriend.
Heather Headley and Sade, by the way, are married to white men. But, like I said, not all white men are alike.
See also:
That’s funny – most people say that white men only date light-skinned women, but I’ve found that to be not entirely true (as you describe). I think white men might be a little intimidated by “blackness” in the cultural sense, and perhaps this is the reason why they veer away from the kinds of women you listed second.
LikeLike
It really depends on the white man, where he comes from, how exposed to black culture, he is. I’m from the UK and I saw a blond tall man, with a plumb black woman, they are married and they have two sons. It really depends on the man.
LikeLike
I am glad you mentioned the fact that many white men seem to go for black women with natural hair and dark skin as I have noticed this too. When I have natural hair I get more attention from white men.
I think they stay away from sterotypically black women. I don’t think most white men don’t like black women as men like women period. I have even had Asian men try to “holla” at me.
I’ve heard and read that many white men are intimadated by black women.
I’ve also seen white men with heaver/thick and a few times fat black women.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Agabond:
I’m a white American male. A university and post-graduate educated professional. I regularly read and enjoy your blog. I agree with some of what you say and disagree with some.
I have been married to a BW for 13 years and, before my marriage, had a reasonable number of relationships with other BW. I know many other WM attracted to and/or married to BW. I think that your tendency to over-generalize racial issues, and especially racial issues having to do with notions of black female beauty, clouds your analysis on the issue of WM attracted to BW. A couple of brief points:
1. WM cannot enter into serious relationships with BW unless we have first learned to see black people as individuals. Once this happens, racial stereotypes and preconceptions tend to diminish or disappear.
2. Men tend to be attracted first by physical beauty. WM in relationships with BW have come to see BW as beautiful. For this reason, we appreciate the beauty of Nia Long, Jill Marie Jones and/or Serena Williams as much or more than that of Halle Berry or other slender, light-skinned BW. In fact, if there is any generalization I have seen among WM who are attracted to BW with respect to physical attributes, it is that white guys tend to prefer darker women over lighter ones. And fuller lips over less full lips. We also love full asses, by the way. I have personally experienced and enjoyed many shades, from obsidian to café au lait, and many shapes, from Buffy the Body to Venus Williams.
3. In any relationship, educational level is probably one of the more significant determinative factors in choosing a long-term mate or partner. WM/BW relationships are no different. Increased minority collegiate enrollment has been largely female. WM on college campuses tend to be more open minded and creative in their relationship choices, and on campus they are encountering smart, attractive, open-minded BW. Thus, the biggest increase in WM/BW relationships in the past decade or two has been predominantly among college-educated individuals. Some within the black community will say that the mannerisms of an educated BW are somehow more “white” compared to stereotypical urban poor BW mannerisms. I personally don’t subscribe to this dialectic, but even if you do agree with it, the real distinction in WM/BW relationships is typically educational level, not the “whiteness” of her demeanor. By the way, both my wife and I can easily code-switch between the dialect of our youth (I was raised in a remote, rural area with a strong regional dialect) and our standard English.
LikeLiked by 2 people
This is Sara Furguson former dutchess of York’s daughter. I think you will like what you see and this is the type of body that most yt men will not find attractive.
LikeLike
Heather headley is in your white men will not date list but I think her boyfriend or husband is white. I guess what you are saying is that white men do not care about skin color or hair texture but they care about afro facial features. While I am sure this is somewhat true there are a lot of exceptions. I have seen white men with women who do not have small button noses or thin lips. I am one of these women and have had white men who thought I was attractive.
LikeLike
As noted in the post, Heather Headley’s husband is white. Of course there will be white men who will date Heather Headley or any of the women in the second list – it is just that there will be way more for the first list for the reasons given in the post.
LikeLike
You will see white men with all sorts of black women. My point was that certain pairings are much more common than others. At least in New York you see more white men with black women who are thin or middle class than with those who are thick or working class. But I doubt it is just New York.
Walk down the street: for every black woman you see imagine a white man with her. You will see that certain pairings seem more likely than others.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Blanc2: Thanks for your long and interesting comment.
I agree about the lips and, for the most part, education.
My sister tells me that white men place way more value on a woman’s education, income and the sort of work she does. Is that true? I thought only women did that sort of thing, not men. It never occurred to me to consider those things in a woman. She said it is even in Jane Austen.
LikeLike
Agabond:
See my response to “levels of blackness,” above. Part of what informs a white guy’s selection of a mate will often be a judgment on that “valuist” scale described there. This goes, among other things, to body fat. To white America, excessive body fat is a signal of a lack of self restraint. Our culture has in recent decades taken that to an extreme, as our culture often tends to do. But Chic Noir is correct that the daughter of the Dutchess of York has a figure that would not be pleasing to most white men. Jennifer Hudson likewise.
As to education, income and acheivement, yes, many white men consider these things when making marriage decisions, though we do not generally consider them otherwise. Part of our “valuist” system includes the notion that a marriage is in part an economic partnership. You want to try to form a partnership with somebody with whom you think you think will enhance your chances of finding economic success. For some men, this means finding a woman who will take care of 100% of things at home so that he is free to pursue a career. For other men, this means finding a woman who has a viable career of her own. In either case, it is an express consideration.
As to educational level, for me personally it boiled down to marrying somebody that I would find an interesting engaging companion in my old age.
LikeLike
There doesn’t appear to be a way to edit posts once submitted. I forgot to add a bit about “Afican” or ethnic facial features. WM attracted to BW like these features. Though “mainstream” white America probably recognizes more “European” features as more attractive generally, WM who date BW do not share this bias and in fact the opposite is often the case.
LikeLike
It sucks that you cannot edit your own posts. That is why I never sweat anyone about their spelling or grammar or even for sounding stupid. As long as they are on topic.
Thanks for confirming what my sister said.
LikeLike
Blanc2: So you would not have the two lists like I do? Are you saying that when a white man is into black women, it is all the way?
If you would still have two lists, I would be interested to know what changes you would make to what I have.
LikeLike
Agabond:
For most of the WM I know in serious or long-term relationships with BW, it is, as you say, “all the way.” However, at that point attraction becomes a matter of individual taste, as always. WM who only date WW do not all like the same look. Some prefer blondes/brunettes. Some prefer tall/short. Etc. Same with WM into BW.
I agree with your posts about the types of BW that mainstream white America tends to find attractive. The breakdown there hinges on european-ish facial features and slender figures. However, in my experience among WM who have come to love BW, that same breakdown does not generally apply.
LikeLike
I just found this blog and I have to say…. interesting and Im liking what I see 🙂
Physical attraction boils down to individual taste. White guy A may be into thick black women, and white guy B may be into thin black women, white guy C may be into Big black women and for white guy D, an average body build is just perfect. My bofriend who is white happens to fall into the white guy D category (sorry I made up categories lol)… Im only 5’2 and I weigh in around 130, but Im very athletic looking and sometimes people cant tell thats my weight.
Attraction is also a TWO WAY THING…. black women have their own preferences. Black woman A may like a stocky build on white men, Black woman b may like the skinny skinny type (my friend falls under this category because she is skinny too), black woman C may like the bonecrusher looking white guys and black woman D may like the average/athletic looking white guy. I happen to fall under D. The same thing goes with skin tone/colour. We all ARENT attracted to the same thing. Some of my friends dont really get picky when it comes to things like that, but Im a really picky person and I prefer a guy who is tan, compared to pale…. again attraction is all about individual or personal preference.
Id like to see more black women talk about what they find attractive… we shouldnt always subject ourselves to the scrutiny of the media/majority, because those same critics may be fugly as hell and may not meet our own standards of what we find attractive.
LikeLike
I am one of those slim, chocolate model types who does not act particularly “black” and the white men hit on me all the time. In fact, I get hit on by more white men than black men. The black men usually go for the thicker, lighter types. So I just have to go with whoever will have me. They just tend to like me better.
LikeLike
That fits what I have observed too.
LikeLike
What!?
White men would not go for Sade?
I have always thought that Sade, with her features (long hair, light skin) would be what many white men would run after. Not to mention that she has/had a white mother, as opposed to a black mother.
I have always thought that many white men want a “Black Barbie” as opposed to the average African-featured black American woman.
Bit of a surprise to find that many white men (according to some of the posters) prefer black women who wear their hair in its natural state, have Africa features, etc.
Does not surprise me that many white men want a thin/slender black women who is a little-less-‘phat’ in the back.
Then again, America is a country that hates the beauty of full-figured women, at least in this day and age.
I feel sorry for the likes of the late Sarah Vaughn, Dorothy Dandridge and Marilyn Monroe.
They would be vilified and ignored for their feminine beauty in 2008 America.
LikeLike
To me Sade is beautiful, like the moon. Maybe I am wrong, but I cannot remember ever hearing any white man talk about her like that. Maybe it is the bone structure of her face or something.
LikeLike
I was curious and saw your blog … it is pretty … nonetheless I was a bit sadden by some of these comments
” In fact, if there is any generalization I have seen among WM who are attracted to BW with respect to physical attributes, it is that white guys tend to prefer darker women over lighter ones. And fuller lips over less full lips. We also love full asses, by the way. I have personally experienced and enjoyed many shades, from obsidian to café au lait, and many shapes, from Buffy the Body to Venus Williams. ”
I do not understand this … one moment you say that there are no generalizations and the next moment you say there are … this is sad … My father is African and my mother is German … why do some people hate me because I’m mixed ? Why the stereotypes ? I noticed that it is not such a big deal in Europe as I saw many different couples there … everybody has their own tastes and preferences
LikeLiked by 1 person
The stereotypes and so on are part of white self-image, at least in America: feel good about yourself by putting others down.
LikeLike
I think this is a good topic and one that is not generally talked about. It is true from what I have seen WM who go for BW go for darker skin BW (there are always exceptions) but for the most part this is how it is. Also, the point made about education is important in reference to WM and BW, however, I do not see this trend with BM and WW–education mostly doesn’t seem to matter on both sides (again, there are always exceptions) but for the most part that’s generally how it is.
I know this is a little off subject BUT
I wish we (AA blk people) would not look at it as a “white” thing to speak proper English and more or less as just a normal way of speaking due in part to an education as blanc2 mentioned. It’s merely English, a language, which is something we’ve all learn, but not all embraced, from K-12th grade not something “white”. It’s a language and it shouldn’t be butchered especially since we are born in this country. It’s a shame when people not born in this land speak better English than someone who has grown up here. I just felt that needed to be said.
Back on subject, as a slim, chocolate hued BW–I can witness to this. Many WM…some who I were attracted to as well…were attracted to me, though I never had the “courage”, so to speak, to actually go there with them. I think sometimes both of us lacked the courage though the attraction was defiantly there. I’m an open mined person, most of the people I’ve dated were outside of my culture/ethnic group and sometimes outside of my race all together. I try to always look at people as individual; otherwise I could have missed out on a lot of good experiences.
What I absolutely loathe is to see a BM with a WW…maybe he is holding her close…has his arms wrapped around her waist…and when he sees a BW in the distance, drops the WW’s hand, slows his pace so that he is behind her, and completely tries to distance himself… as if he is ashamed of her. Then and only then without really knowing this man, am I ashamed of him for reacting that way and I feel sorry for the WW plainly seeing the hurt in her eyes as I pass by. WE all know what just happened. I would leave him if I were her, but I’m sure most of them that actually experience this probably are use to it–but no woman should be subjected to that kind of treatment. I CANNOT tell you how many times I have seen this happen. It’s horrible. It doesn’t always happen, but it’s happened more times than not.
LikeLike
Also a little off subject:
People all over the world speak proper English – in India, Nigeria, Singapore, Jamaica, etc. It is not a “white” thing.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Abagond,
I found your article very interesting and for the most part I agree with your observations.
I can use myself and my experiences as an example:
I am a carmel colored woman, 5’6, 130 lbs.with a small bust and small behind, but I’m very well-defined: not really flabby anywhere. For more than a decade, I wore my hair straight. During that time, I garnered my fair share of attention from black and hispanic men. Although, I can say I have probably been passed over by black men because I don’t have much “junk in my trunk.”
About ten years ago, I decided to let my natural hair grow out (I have corkscrew curls). when I did that, I started being approached by as many white men as other races of men. So, I think it’s fair to say that if I white man is truly attracted to black women, he will appreciate her ethnic features. I am an equal opportunity dater, so my history includes what looks like the United Nations.
My sister, on the other hand, is very dark, more curvy, and has more course hair. She has always been approached by men of all races.
We are both college educated and were raised in integrated neighborhoods. So, we are comfortable moving in cultural circles that are different from our own. I think that has also had great bearing on our dating success.
LikeLike
Thanks! Especially interesting was what you said about hair.
LikeLike
I understand your article, but I disagree with many of the women you put on your white men won’t like list. I think Garcelle Beauvois-Nilon and Gabrielle Union’s features are as “Black” as most of the women you put on your no list, if not more. Bria Myles has some of the narrowest facial features I’ve seen on any woman, Black or White. I understand that her figure is what put her on that list. Likewise, Tocarra and Angel Conwell do too, but they “act too Black.” I think that many Black women would be surprised by what attracts White men to Black women. As a Black woman that favors more of the Kenya Moore/Maia Campbell flavor herself, I’ve never had a problem attracting all different types of men of every race!
LikeLike
Garcelle and Gabrielle: I know for a fact that white men are attracted to them, even men who you would think would not go for black women (and mostly do not). Garcelle appeared in Playboy – a magazine whiter than Maine.
They both have that cutsie-pie face that white men seem to go for. So does Vanessa Williams, Sanaa Lathan, Lela Rochon, Sharon Leal, Janet Jackson and Kerry Washington. Not a single woman on the no-list, not even Bria, has that sort of face.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I disagree with your post completely. I am currently married to a white man and throughout my adult life have dated handsome,white and/or Latino men. I am deep brown, pretty to be sure and have a really, really big butt. I am a sistah in the traditional sense. I usually wear either braids or a short cropped hairstyle..occassionally going for a relaxer but rarely. I have been married for 5 years (happily) and prior to that lived with a man from Sweden for 3 years. I have a Master’s degree and teach. For me, the pretty face and smile usually get the man, intellect keeps them and the big butt doesn’t hurt. I’m fat now, before my baby I was thick. I think that people are attracted to my personality first and then the rest follows. Your article was interesting and had a cool perspective. I respectfully disagree from years of experience. I guess I’ve always wondered why the brothers didn’t hit on me more or try for more serious relationships with me? I no longer care but it was interesting for years.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Thanks. At some point I will have to update my post with all the feedback I have been getting.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Weird how you got the WM flavor in California. I’m a caramel hued African female who’s is a little curvacous and white dudes never hit on me. Black and hispanic men do. Whenever I see WM with BW, the women are either darker and curvy or darker and thinner. They have natural hair most of the time. However, I don’t think that’s the by-product black female for a white guy. I’m dating a white man and he likes me for me.
LikeLike
sick. small minds discuss people.
LikeLike
Just stumbled on ur site. Interesting read. For me BLANC2 said it all in his first post. I completely agree with him. The ability to see an indidvidual irrespective of colour is what really gets the ball rolling.
LikeLike
Aba, nice post. But … thin blk women who says blk men don’t want them because of their body types so they turn to white men who likes it are boldface liars. And YES I truly believe that. If you’re going to date interacially do not bash your counterpart to make up excuses as to why you are dating outside of your race. Ppl make up excuses to cover up their inadequacy and it is not becoming. As a matter of fact, I am thin, and short (with my heels off I am my natural 5’1 height) and throughout my entire 19 yrs of living I have dated predominantly blk males and only one Latino (he was Puerto Rican.) In JHS they called me “skinny minnie” (not in a taunting way either .. It was all in love) in H.S. I gained some weight and graduated to “Slim” (all of my ex boyfriends as well as my current one has called or still calls me “Slim”) that doesn’t sound like blk males are repulsed by thin blk women and hates their guts and would never date them to me. That is bullshit. Perhaps it wasn’t your weight, but your attitude, or maybe… just maybe some weren’t physically attracted to your facial features. Don’t blame black men. And fact I get pursued by farrr more black men, than I do white and usually when white males do pursue me they are Italian and feels strongly that they have some “black in them.” Oh .. One last thing, when it comes to race & beauty I believe that black men are a lot more universal in their ideas of beauty than any other race of men. The avg. Black man concentrates more on beauty and less on race (and body type). In NYC it isn’t hard to find a black male/latina duo or blk male/whitew duo (sometimes blk male/asianw duo) while many, many white men are grounded in their ideas of what a woman’s body should look like (thin … bony if you will) and Asians another story all together. The blk man is the biggest threat to Western civilization. Done. 🙂
LikeLike
Well, Strangefruit, I actually agree w/ your previous comment. Black men, we do seem to have focus less on race and more on body, from my observations. White men do seem more ‘particular’ about the women they date or lust after. But then again, it’s best not to generalize people. As long as there are people who contradict a stereotype, then it’s not a rule.
It’s funny, in my lifetime, as someone who’s lived all over the Northeast and Southeast, I can’t say that I’ve witnessed
an abundance of interracial couples, which included a black partner. They defintely were a smaller minority. Don’t get wrong, I’ve seen black/non-black couples (and even have two or three within my family) but they were far outweighted by monoracial black couples. Hmm…
For perspective, most IR couples/marriages
in this country take place between whites and non-black minorities.
For all the talk we do on this site about black beauty and the lack of appreciation for it in this country- which is VERY TRUE-I have to say that like Strangefruit, most of the black women I know think that they’re FINE! They are not lacking for confidence, whether they’re skinny or fat, ugly or cute, tall or short, etc. They just think they’re the shit. Perhaps, black women learn very quickly that if they wallow in the anti-black racism that deems them physically subordinate to white females, they’d go mad so for survival reasons and common sense, they learn to embrace themselves even tighter.
Reverisbly, I rarely see white women, regardless of how they look, exude the same confidence.
What do you make of all of ths, Aba and readers around the globe?
LikeLike
Mynameis…
I do agree with you about generalizations, though I make many of them myself (hypocrisy @ its finest haha).
I’ll also agree that interracial couples are a minority, but the way some thin blk women talk on this site about dating white males because blk males are rejecting them you’d think otherwise. After all many, many blk women are thin. Most thick black women testify that they were thin at some point and gained weight as they got older and had children. My mom is a prime example of that. That means one can safely conclude that we (black women) have all dated white men at some points in our lives because blk males rejected our body types. Smh. Get real. That is NOT true. On his other post I saw thin blk females saying things like they were taunted mercilessly when they were younger because they were skinny and now they have to go through therapy (LOL) … I am sorry … I find that VERY hard to believe. As a matter of fact, I think that was an overexaggeration to the highest power. The black man IMO is just universal in what he thinks is beauty. When I first met my boyfriend I asked him what does he like in a woman and he said a nice smile, good figure (that can mean anything), REAL hair, and that was it. I have never met a blk guy whom when I asked what does he like in a woman said light skinned, thick, with long hair. To most blk males I’ve met skin complexion does not matter one way or another. Most just likes a “good” figure (an abstract word .. good can mean anything according to the person). And sure, black men likes long hair (Hair is an outgrowth of protein … long, thick hair is one sign of good health) but above all, I think most blk men just likes real hair (meaning it is far more important that the hair is real whether it is long or short). The color issue in the black community is far too exaggerated as well. I just think with the black man’s perceptions of beauty it is very easy for the blk woman to feel good about herself whether she is thin, thick, or fat. Light brwn. Med. Brown. Or dark brown. Long hair, short hair, or even weave hair. Tall. Medium. Or short. It is white males that place pressure on white females to look a certain way, which is why anorexia, bulemia, bleached blonde hair, and breast augmentation plagues young white women. How could they truly feel good inside to the point where it exudes to the public when they’re leaders (their men) has such strict and acute expectations of their outside appearance? Not everyone is born with double D’s on a stick and platinum blonde hair … most certainly not the avg. White woman. Most white men (as depicted in the media) does not understand that and if their women aren’t born with it as opposed to wanting them to stick with the real they’d rather them buy the fake. Blk males however, understands that not every blk female is light skinned with a slim waist and big booty … they tend to just appreciate a good looking woman for what she is no matter her color or figure. That is it. It is what it is…
LikeLike
I would think thin black women would have far more luck with black men than white men. White men may like thin women more, but most are unwilling to marry a black woman – because they do not want black children. But that is a whole other post:
I agree that black men are far less racist in their ideas of beauty than white men. But that may not be to their credit: if you naturally like black women and live in America you will find yourself being told over and over again that something else is more beautiful. So it is not too hard to see the beauty in both. White men do not have that advantage. If 95% of the actresses in Hollywood were black, they would have a more balanced idea of beauty too.
And, yes, it is strange that even though white women are held up as the height of beauty in America, white women are far more insecure about their looks. In general. Fat white women just seem to give up altogether while many fat black women do not. That is how it seems.
LikeLike
Strangefruit…
I would say that I disagree with you on the color issue in the Black community. As a person who has literrally went from light to brown skin after tanning and simply just listening to many guys…it is still an issue. Let me provide some examples..and by the way these buddies of mine are from all different cultures and background (Jamaican, Nigerian, Trinidadian,etc…and yes American). Just dissappointing how the ignorance is all over the Black Diaspora.
Example 1: My ex Trini Boyfriend came back after spending 1 month in his country for Christmas. When he returned he gave me a compliment “your skin is lighter…but he used the term ‘fair'” I gave him a look and he was just like “that is a good thing”. I couldn’t believe he said that!
Example 2: My friends boyfriend said he would only sleep with Gabrielle Union but nothing else because she is dark skinned..and he said it in a way that was increased the degradation of this horrible statement.
Example 3: Back in high school, I remember one of my good friends putting down(actually about her skin) a girl who was dark skinned….I guess he forgot he used to date her! Furthermore, this girl was really beautiful and beautiful by anyone’s standards too…I guess that was the only aspect about her that could be use to attack her.
Example 4: At HU,I had a buddy who worked in the post office. He was an older black man (maybe late 30s). After spending a few summer days in the hot sun of the District…I stopped by to drop some mail off. I hit the corner and he said “Dang you got black” with his face all twisted up like that was the worst thing ever. God forbid I get darker…some Black people really do believe that sunscreen lotion keeps you from getting darker. Maybe it is just me, but from my observations, black folks do NOT want to get darker. If it wasn’t such an issue, would some people go to such lengths to shield themselves from the sun? Some girls even go as far as bleaching creams…sounds similar to things like anorexia to me. On both sides of the coin, women feel the need to change features about themselves that apparently will make them fit better into society. Something is driving women,both black and white, to got to such drastic measures.
I could really go on and on and on. I agree that black have an overall appreciation for women, but color can occasionally sneak up again.
LikeLike
Qselby,
I don’t think Strangefruit was saying that color biases/coding wasn’t an issue, she was just saying that FROM HER EXPERIENCES, she feels that the notion of it being a SEVERE issue for black folks is greatly overstated.
Oh, many people of color have deep issues with their racial appearance. That’s just a nasty after-effect of white supremacy and European colonization.
It’s just that not all black people share the same experiences with race. There’s many black women, no matter how light or dark their skin, who’ve never had their skin color become a serious issue for them either way. While obviously there’s other who’ve had it become much more political.
Different strokes for different folks. It’s all a matter of location and sophistication.
P.S.: Intrestingly enough, I know a lot of black women who just love to use spray tans and bronzers. They do it to even themselves out and get a sexy glow. That’s what many have told me at least.
LikeLike
Qselby,
A man in his late 30s is an “older” man? LOL. You must be wild young. Hell, a 25-year-old must be elderly to you, huh? 🙂
Just funnin’.
LikeLike
Qselby, mynameis articulated much of what I was going to say. I know it is a problem … within every non-white race. However, I do believe that the “color-struck” issue is exaggerated. Most of the black people I know aren’t fair skinned. I’m not either. Your point is proven however by your personal experiences, but I can honestly say no one has ever said anything good or bad about my skin tone. It just is what it is. I’ve been referred to as the “brown skinned girl” and as far as my complexion goes that is the most I’ve heard in reference to it. Brown skin, IMO is dark skin. Subjective though. One thing I do get often from blacks and I feel it is because I’m black is questions like “is that your real hair?” or “is that all yours?” I’ve had one guy I dated ask me if he could ask me a personal question and when I said “it depends” he asked me if my hair was real. I get that so often I’m not offended by it anymore. And I am about 99.9% sure that it is because I am obviously black. I’d say that is more of an issue in the blk community than skin color. I get q’s like that everywhere I go. As a dark female when I go to places I am not bombarded with questions about my skin complexion, but about my hair smh. As far as ppl putting others down for their complexion, in H.S. And even now in college the guys would refer to a fair skinned female as “whitey” and equally so a very dark skinned girl as “darky.” Its normal. He dated her, he obviously knew what color she was and didn’t have a problem with it. Sounds like he was a little bitter if anything and if it were not her skin complexion it would be something else. I haven’t met any blacks who wore sun screen lotion on the beach or went to great lengths to stay out of the summer’s sun to avoid getting darker. Here in P.A. During my summer course @ college my girls and I went to a local pool regularly and I actually tanned in the sun to even out my complexion as I am darker in some places and lighter in others. My friends range in tones and they surely aren’t afraid of the sun as you depict. I’ve never had anyone look @ me and say “dang you got black” with their faces all twisted up. None of my blk male friends ever told me they’d never do anything but “sleep” with a dark skinned female. Yeah, you’re right … maybe it is just you. Or its just the “ignorant” company you keep…
LikeLike
Colourism is clearly stil an issue – the number of comments on this blog about it shows that. But people do have vastly different experiences in regard to it.
LikeLike
All WM are not the same. The ones I date like my braids and my larger bottom. But mostly they tell me they like my mind.
I think its about what’s inside that counts most with all men.
LikeLike
I have dated women of all races. Typically, young freckly white women seem to like me and I like them too. However, dark, light, kinky hair or straight locks; I am simply obsessed with very beaufully women. I love gorgeous faces and lovely, sexy bodies or all colors and shapes.
Currently I work with three black women, three white women, and a whole boat load of goofy guys. One of the black women is so dark I can’t even describe the color – her body is beautiful, but her face sends me to heaven and back. If she were mean and grouchy I would still say that she has a face for vogue, but her joyful personality is so uplifting that she trully glows!
Another is more fair, kinda brown skinned She is pretty, and her body is even more extraordinary. Her butt though is actually painful to look at. It is so hot. The fact that she knows that is she is attractive and yet, somehow, and ever-so-gracefully, makes us all feel that it is ok for us to look at her, is in part what makes her so appealing. I’m not saying that she flaunts it all, but she does kinda pause, lets us have a look, than she smiles, and then goes about her business.
If they were not bright women, I would be paying much less attention. They are sharp and vibrant.
LikeLike
I LOVE ALL PEOPLE. HOWEVER, IF I’D MEET LETS SAY A WHITE GUY LIKE MARK WHALBERG, OR JEFFREY LYONS THEN WE CAN DEFINITLY TALK.
LikeLike
I am a white man and I think African features on a woman are beautiful, whether she is dark, light or anything in between. Alfre Woodard has strong African features and her husband is white.
LikeLike
And I also think the very curvy bodies of African American women are very appealing.
LikeLike
There will be white men who like all kinds of black women. The point of this post is that most of them seem to prefer a certain kind.
LikeLike
It is more appropriate that you said “seem to prefer” because if you are basing the preference of “most” white men from what the media portrays, I can tell you that the media has never asked for my opinion or that of other white men who appreciate thickness and ‘Afrocentric’ beauty in women. I can only speak for myself and that is what it is really about: individuals, not groups. I would prefer not to state my ethnicity, but I only do it to let people know that many white men don’t match a stereotype of what a white man is presumed to think or behave. It is just as ridiculous to paint white men with a broad brush as it is with any other group.
LikeLike
Yeah, A White Guy, there is no one “type” of black woman that “most” white men would like. I think Aba is drawn to the fact that the black women who choose to be romantically involved with a white male don’t usually don’t look near-white. That doesn’t surprise me because the vast majority of black women don’t look white(ish). Plus, people usually like constrast in their mates.
LikeLike
Mynameismyname, I agree about the attraction of contrast. Perhaps that is why many light skinned African American women are attracted to darker skinned men and vice versa
.
LikeLike
Perhaps I am stuck by how the women are not near-white, but I am not basing it on the media as I see so few such couples on televsion. I am basing it mainly on what I see in New York.
LikeLike
Yes, John, people like constrast. Usually, when I’ve seen a lightly complexioned black person, their mate was darker. Part of this is lack of choice. If you’re a black person’s who’s “light”, you’re in the minority AND of course, that sense of constrast.
Whites, exhibit similar behavior, with hair color. Dark hair with bright hair, etc.
Same thing with let’s say, size. Thin likes heavyset. And so forth.
LikeLike
Thank you for all of your comments.
I am a 35 year old corporate black female pursuing may masters degree. I am 5’10”, light skin, long hair, thick lips, size 10 pants but size 8 dress. I am attracted to white men but I have only attracted the attention of one white man. He was an older gentleman and things didn’t work out (not because he is older as I loved that about him). I have been discourged because it appears that there is something about me that makes me invisible to white men of any age. I have been doing research on what white men look for in black women; not because I want to change myself but because I seek understanding.
I have read all of these postings and they have all been quite helpful. My only regret is that I found this blog so long after it was initiated.
Again, I thank you all for your comments.
LikeLike
White men have different tastes. Some like a more white mixed looking women that is part black. Whilst others like darker black women. I can remeber seeing a survey on mister poll that said most white men that like black women like them to be brown skin ie, sanaa lathan or halle berry or dark brown skin ie, naomi campbell or kerry washington. But really beauty had nothing to do with skin colour.
LikeLike
I thoughtthis was a very interesting post. I, along with my bestfriend, are black females that love white men. But I am, not really big, maybe a little thicker than average. I’m about 5’9, and I weigh about 200lbs. On the other hand my friend is pretty small, and while the same height, she weighs about 125lbs. She has only dated, primarily, white guys. She has also been in at least four serious relationships with white guys. Unlike her, I have never been in a serious relationship with any white guys. I have dated a few, but a relationship never developed. Throughout my experience of dating white guys, I have found that every single one I’ve dated(about six or seven) ended up only being interested in sexual relations with me. I definitely was not interested in that. So, usually I only went out with these guys once or twice.
LikeLike
Also, I think the point of this article was to point out the type of black female that most white guys seem to date. I have yet to come across a white guy that’s interested in dating heavier black females. I agree with abagond, and others, who noticed that white guys seem to go for the darker, and thinner black female. I didn’t mention this earlier, but I am a medium skinned black female that prefers to keep my hair long, and straight.(sometimes I wear it in natural curls)I do notice that I might get a little bit more attention from white guys when I wear my hair in curls. But I don’t think that really is an issue because my friend also prefers to keep hers long and straight.
LikeLike
Also, I think it’s really cool to hear responses from white, and other non-black, guys. WE NEED MORE RESPONSES LIKE THAT!!!!
LikeLike
I resemble the girl in the opening picture (with the curly hair) and I mostly attract white guys. In fact, my friends tease me about it.
But, I don’t attract a lot of black guys, at least in the midwest. They seem to like heavier women.
White guys seem to like a thin, sleek look. Some, not all.
LikeLike
I have to disagree just a little with Anon. Black men are becoming increasingly attracted thin women. I have a lot of guy friends that would have dated a nice heavier woman, but they are more interested in thin women. Some of their opinions about it were that they didn’t want their peers making fun of them. (Keep in mind, these are guys from the ages of 23-28).
LikeLike
sapphire georgia Says:
Mon 26 Jan 2009 at 08:54:17
“Thank you for all of your comments.
I am a 35 year old corporate black female pursuing may masters degree. I am 5′10″, light skin, long hair, thick lips, size 10 pants but size 8 dress. I am attracted to white men but I have only attracted the attention of one white man. He was an older gentleman and things didn’t work out (not because he is older as I loved that about him). I have been discourged because it appears that there is something about me that makes me invisible to white men of any age. I have been doing research on what white men look for in black women; not because I want to change myself but because I seek understanding.
I have read all of these postings and they have all been quite helpful. My only regret is that I found this blog so long after it was initiated.
Again, I thank you all for your comments.”
Sapphire Georgia, it sounds like you are an attractive woman with a lot going for you, but you feel like you are invisible to men that you are attracted to. Are you introverted or extroverted? I think many men take notice of women who project self-confidence and who know what they want and go for it.
LikeLike
I am a white Italian-American guy. While I agree with the women who are shown in the “Many white men would date these women” (Who could resist that smile and those dimples on Gabrielle Union, or the amazingly Halle Berry, who just seems to get more beautiful as she gets older?), I take issue with some of the women listed in the section “Way fewer white men would date these”. I used to watch Girlfriends to see Jill Marie Jones, who I think is very attractive, and maybe it’s just an Italian thing, but I also find the short and voluptuous Angell Conwell to be very attractive.
I find that most black women in my area do not seem interested in us white guys. Some of the Jamaican women are, but I have not been fortunate enough to meet any unmarried ones. I tend to be shy with all women, so if I sense that a woman is not interested, I will not approach her.
The black women that I am attracted to tend to be college educated, professional women, with a cute smile, a good sense of humor, and a shapely figure (not to skinny, not too fat). Of course, those are the same physical characteristics that I find attractive in any woman.
To any black woman out there who might be interested in dating a white guy, the only advice that I can give, is talk to the guy a little, laugh a little, flirt a little, and see if he is interested. You’ll know if he is. Remember, you’ll never succeed unless you try.
LikeLike
Chanel06 said:
I have to disagree just a little with Anon. Black men are becoming increasingly attracted thin women.
I have heard that, that black ideas of female beauty have been getting thinner – since about the 1990s. Not sure how true it is…
LikeLike
Isn’t it ironic that the second list of black women that weren’t as favoured by white men as the first contained women who: wore more weaves, not so long facial features and weren’t as natural as the first group.
To challenge a quote that was made earlier, I don’t believe it is because these men are intimidated by our ‘blackness’, in fact I think the complete opposite. It depends on what your definition of ‘blackness’is. The second group of women overall seemed to embrace the stereotypical definition of being a black women whereas the first group carried themselves with elegance, were more decent and natural. The natural aspect itself shows that these men are intrigued and attracted to the TRUE definition of blackness: natural hair, positive attitudes, more or less make up free skin and spirituality…
LikeLike
I agree with Princess A.
LikeLike
Chanel 06, I think you may be right. I have noticed that the younger generation coming up are more attracted to thin women. This is evident in hip-hop videos. Back in the day, women who were in them were thick (BBD, Sir Mix Alot), but now they focus on thinner model-types “model chics”lol. Even on an everyday aspect, younger black men or more inclined to approach. That’s good though.
Some of abagond ideas are outdated. The notion that thick black women are most attractive. And other things that men USED to think about women, but no longer do. I’m glad that men are starting to be more evolved, especially black men.
LikeLike
first of all men being attracted to women is natural.
what is unnatural is what i call “the forbidden fruit syndrome”
it is a form of manipulation that has been carried from generation to generation and it’s purpose is to stop men and women of different races from forming relationships with each other.
it thrives on fear, making people feel that it is something really bad for white and black men and women to mix.
but it does is cause frustration, because you can stop people mixing but you can’t stop people feeling frustrated.
until 1967 in the usa it was according to the law, illegal for a black man to marry a white woman and visa versa.
can you imagine the frustration that must have caused?
now imagine if the people that made and enforced that law were denied access to food and water?
there would have been an uproar!
they would say they have a need to eat by virtue of being a human being.
humans have a need to reach out to fellow humans for friendship/relationships/marriage.
yet African American people were denied the freedom to mix with fellow humans regardless of skin color.
again can you imagine the frustration that must have caused?
the black people had to stick to their own kind.
it would be fair to say well since black people were treated inhumanly why would they even want to form friendships with the white people that were oppressing them?
but if the saying that “a house divided against itself cannot stand” is true(and it is) then how could there ever be peace even for the oppressors?
if you split something in two by nature both fall away, did the segregation laws result in happiness?
no it didn’t and it never could.
did it stop black males and white females being attracted to each other?
i doubt it.
the fear of punishment no doubt exercised a restraint against daring to do what was considered “wrong”.
but that “wrong” was not wrong, what was wrong was segregation.
do you think that if man had not treated their fellow human beings with such inhumanity and cruelty, people then and now would have no fear of mixing with people of other races?
you see, in the 21st century, the influence and stain of segregation although by law has been abolished, it is easy to tear up statue law books, but harder to remove them from our hearts.
the day we as humans share the same goals which is to leave behind a model for future generations to follow in which people no longer seek to dominate each other to each others injury, maybe then green shoots of peace to a certain extent might grow.
LikeLike
I did not read all of the posts but I just want to make a few comments.
– The concept of “acting black” is racist. There is no one way that all black people behave. As already written, everyone is an individual and once white men recognize that, these generalizations will disappear.
– Furthermore, a man cannot evaluate a woman’s personality by looking at her so I don’t understand how a white male can identify a “white” black woman by seeing her on the subway or in Starbucks.
– As a New Yorker, I understand where some of the concepts in the original posts are from. I have made many of those same observations. But perhaps it only applies to New York? I don’t know.
– The most important statement in the original post, however, has nothing to do with any of these issues. The most important statement was MOST WHITE MEN DO NO GO FOR BLACK WOMEN.
LikeLike
MOST WHITE MEN DO NO GO FOR BLACK WOMEN.
I agree with Jamaican. That is at the heart of it all and why I think it’s rather foolish and a pheonomal waste of time to solicit the biased and racially damaging views of what white men think is attractive when they have never really seen us as anything viable beyond an object of vilification, ridicule and disgust that renders us invisible–unless they think we are encroaching on their spaces or taking away there money through welfare manipulation.
As a rule they are making exceptions to the supposed few that they deign to believe are attractive enough, otherwise they are going to glob us into one indistinguishable mass that only a few black/other women who have white/exotic or acceptable level of features that allows them to escape the black hole of perceived black female ugliness.
In total it is best to gage what we as black people (and all its diversity) find attractive and to work to excoriate the insidious views we have adopted about our physical attributes to fit in a stifling white ideal that we could never be.
LikeLike
I have read everyones blog. It took me an hour and a half about. I oftern get ofended when people say act black. What exactly is acting black? Not everyone in that is african american talks what everyone so called says is black. I’m from pgh, pa and I see as many wm/bw as I do bm/ww. All different features I have seen. I date a white guy and it is because of his personality first. My mothers father was mixed. His mother was german. I am a bit of everything, but I am a black woman. My hair has went from long to short, straght to curly because I do what I like at the time. My guy still loves me. All white guys aren’t college graduates either. Some white guys do actually live in the hood. Its not always about white educated men finding black educated men. I wonder why people care so much what a white guy likes about black women. To me everyone has different tastes and preferences. There isn’t a blog that could cover why white men like black women. Nowadays everyone dates outside their race. Be it white guy, black guy, or the other
LikeLike
White educated men finding white educated women lol. Sorry about that. That would be a different blog lol
LikeLike
and a again black women. I must go onto bed. I am sleepy. Excuse my typing. gn
LikeLike
I with agree Iamme that everyone has different preferences. I’d like to add that I think those preferences in facial features and body type are not always connected to race. If a guy white or otherwise likes full lips and most black women have full lips he probably will date black women. If a guy likes blue eyes he will probably date white women…or women who regularly wear blue contacts at least.
Having said that, there is some truth in Abagond’s observations of what types of features are considered attractive by white men (and white people in general) in black women. I can’t tell you how many times white people have complimented my high cheekbones, asked me if I’m a model(I wish), and even questioned my heritage(both my parents are black)while the same feature goes unnoticed by and is unremarkable to people of other races.
LikeLike
I am a mixed 21 year old. I am multi ethnic..half Indian,English,Dutch, Fijian and Polynesian.
My father was full indian and my mother was mixed she is very fair. I am a light to medium brown depending ont the seasons.
I do get a lot of attention because of my ‘exotic-ness’. I am beautiful to many males. I have had a lot of white men attracted to me of every age. I have also had many other races attracted.
To me, I am beautiful girl on a general level with every male from diffrent ethnicities and races. I get equal attention because I am very pretty and ‘mysterious’ to most men because I have just about everything in me.
I believe that most men find girls who are not their race to be far more attractive. Like I am brown, but many other men from ‘brown’ races still approach me because I am DIFFRENT looking from what they see and expect of their GENERIC women.
All people in thier races look alike. South Americans, Indians, Africans all have generic looks. Every race has the generic typical look. Women who stand outside the generic look of what the race is tends to be more attractive.
Men really just love a Beautiful woman.
I am engaged to a white American man. He loves me. He is average height and average build 5’11 with medium brown hair that was white blond as a child and hazel eyes. I am small petite 5’1 with natural DD breasts for a small girl, black thick hair that is straight for half of the hair but curls at the ends with an athletic build.
Again. It depends on preferences. Men love diffrences. I know I love variety. I am excited about what our children will look like. The possibilities are endless. 🙂
The world needs to be more intergrated and mixed up. That is what I hope for.
LikeLike
i am a white male, 22. in my opinion, most general white men are attracted to european-similar features of women from mixed or other races, mostly because of social conditioning. if you are white and middle class, seeing european or similar features is what is dictated as beautiful, and i think naturally it becomes ingrained in the mind.
but there are no absolute truths, for there is always another, and another answer to each and every question. for instance, besides my beautiful fiance who i consider to easily be the most adorable person i will ever know, i can say that no matter what race or features a woman has, no matter what race, can be attractive to me. there is no set standard, it is merely intuitive as to what true beauty is. i can say that they are all attractive in their own way.
but this goes only with stating the following, MAKEUP does NOT mean BEAUTIFUL. a woman is at her peak beauty when raw in herself, illuminating positive spirit and a sense of peace or joy.
i may be in the minority when it comes to finding girls attractive from every part of the world, but remember that this may not even be the case. white men often may also be unconcsciously covering up their own feelings when it comes to deeming any person attractive or not. there are a lot of societal pressures, but also from friends or family.
its also true that european colonists raped slaves of the carribean, africans, and others in other colonised countries. perhaps some women gave into it as well, but there is definetly a truth to white men finding other races interesting. white people can see their culture monopolising the world right now, and anything different from that is interesting.
have i said enough?
LikeLike
i dont really find the stereotypes flattering that were in the post, i am a fit 30 year old brown skinned woman, attractive, i think i have a good personality, love to laugh, and eclectic music tastes. i have had it hard from both sides, too white for some blacks, and culturally insensitive white people, i have had white guy friends who expressed interest in me and for whatever reason i wasnt attracted.
Black guys approach sometimes but its not the mannerly approach that i like( not trying to sound bad here) basically i am picky, picky in the sense that i want to be respected and treated like a lady, not as easy to find these days as you think.
i used to have my profile on some site for awhile, overwhelmingly older white guys hit my profile, very few if any black, i think its a catch 22, black men often say we
are loud, hard to deal with and not “feminine ” enough, well i am none of those things and i am pretty, but the black guys seem to think i am unnaproachable and so do alot of the white ones, funny enough, when someone does approach seriously it usually is a white guy. go figure
LikeLike
I want to ask a black women a question , you are americans don’t you know that most white american men are racist?not all, most are .I am from a different country , and i noticed how black females (those with african feautures) are consider “ugly” by mosst white american men.The less you look like an african the more attention and looks you get.It all has to do with slavery the racist white men has too keep the white race on the top and the black race on the bottom.I am sick of american men the reason why they date me is because i can pass for a south east asian(i am part) and i also look polynesian , but i still look part black , but i don’t look very african .I am also sick and tire of the stereotypes of how they view african american women.Most of the white males i dated they had nothing in mind but race , they look down on african american women , they will say african american women are ugly specially the dark ones , with kinky nasty hair and they are sluts , lazy and nasty ect, ect, ect , i was so sick and tired of the bull that i desided i will not date them any more.I date only european men , i have never heard one word about color , or they parents will not acept me .My european boyfriend mostly talk about his culture , about my beauty and lots of positive stough , it feels so good .If you want a white men look some place else not in america that is my advice , you are not speciall in america , face it ,white women will always comes first in beauty standards , i don’t have time for kind of racist crap , because life is too short. I don’t particurly find white american men attractive , most think they are too good for a black women , well european men are so hot , specially the brits and nordic men .I am not saying that all white men in america are racist , but i had seen and dated lots of ignorant men , but at least they were honest.There is ugly and good looking people in every race , but most of them (white american men) will say it is just my preference , :BULL” most of it is “RACISM” white is better and black is inferior , colonial views.I seen more african american women with low self steem in america and i had also seen more african and carribean women in europe with way much more self steem.African american women please travel maybe you will feel good about yourself then being in a country that is negative towards your skin color.Excuse my spelling , english is my second language , thank you
LikeLike
Oleu,
It’s mostly true especially in the midwest where nordic, blue-eyed blondes reigned supreme. When these guys go outside their race, they pick Asian and non-Black Latinas. I hardly see them with Black women, mixed or not. Not even the ones who conformed to the Eurocentric beauty system the most. This is because the region is highly segregated by race/class.
La Reyna
LikeLike
One more thing , most americans say that most Germans are nazi , but guess what? i dated Germans men and i am telling you , a dark skin women are viewed as exotic , so who are the nazis?American men wake up in the mornings thinking about race , sleep thinking about race , talk to their friends about race , woow.I don’t hate white american men , i am just telling what i had experience dating white american men , i just don’t have time for all that drama and racist crap.I am light skin , by the way.I had seen more black women with white men in europe then in america , is just preference in america? or mostly racism? you know the answers , ladies..I am not saying there is no racism in europe , because there is , but there is no colonial views and no slavery so their views is totaly dfferent .
LikeLike
I think british , swedish and dutch men are the best .I will never, ever date white american men , they are not worth my time . I don’t want to go through that again .They always have a negative excuse towards black women , please don’t tell me that asian and hispanic women are all that inocent , because it is not true.I some times hate looking as a South East Asian , because they (white american men )have this nasty stereotype about them and expect me to act like that , euuuuu, grossss. I don’t hate , i am just being realistic.
LikeLike
Oleu,
I’m not saying that Asian and Hispanic women are innocent. Neither are Blonde White women. White guys do fetishize such women though.
La Reyna
LikeLike
Oleu,
Believe me, I read several stories of women who looked White, Hispanic, and Asian get burned by those white American men because they have Black ancestry. As if Blackness is a taint that “pollutes” “white purity.”
Those COWARDS have no backbone whatsoever because some friend or family member have negative views of Blacks.
I agree, European men have less hangups about race and culture than arrogant American men.
By the way, I’m a Black woman.
La Reyna
LikeLike
SNIDE COMMENTS HURT by Vivian Johnson, Ph.D
Snide comments hurt
When I read articles concerning Don Imus’s slanderous comments directed against black college women, I thought at first that the overall response to his words was excessive. That is, until I saw the broadcast for myself on the Internet. Don Imus’s words hurt. My reaction surprised me because I had already read about his comments ad nauseum in the news. Simply put, Imus’s words hurt. When I heard his words, I was not prepared for the delivery. What I felt was his gut level disdain for black people.
Sadly, this same feeling resurfaced during the Annual New Resident Breakfast at the Oakwood Community Center this month when one of my fellow new residents made me the brunt of his poor humor. As I entered the building, I was greeted warmly by various city officials and then walked to a table staffed by the Mayor to get my nametag. I inadvertently got mixed into a family who was waiting to get their nametags. In the mix-up, I managed to stand next to the father/husband of the family.
The Mayor was diligently looking for this family’s nametags in a file box. When she lifted her head, she saw me standing beside the white gentleman and she said, “Is this your wife?” The man put his arm around me and said with great sarcasm, “Yeah, this is my wife.” He said it as if it were preposterous that I, a black woman, could be his wife. The gentleman seemed to lack the open-mindedness exhibited by the Mayor. At that moment, I wanted to leave.
After I got my nametag, I did in fact leave and called a Christian friend for moral support. I told him that while I thought it important for me to stay at the event, I did not want to be in an environment with people who thought that I was somehow less than, or inferior because of my skin color. My friend encouraged me to go back to the breakfast as the light for people who walked in darkness. His words strengthened me as I walked into this event armed with a Christian directive. I am glad I returned to the event as I had a good time meeting the new residents of Oakwood. I have also enjoyed subsequent conversations with a couple of the city officials.
There is a bit of Imus in all of us. I am pretty certain the man who offended me has no idea of the harm his snide comment caused. Instead of distancing ourselves from these comments, this is an opportune moment for education. It is best to go toward that which makes us uncomfortable. A good beginning for understanding the visceral negative feelings toward black people is the documentary on race in America entitled “Ethnic Notions.” I think it critical to dismantle beliefs that perpetuate the unfair treatment of any human being so that we leave a legacy for our children of which we are proud.
What say you?
La Reyna
LikeLike
Check out this video and post your comments on youtube. Type in (Why Do Black Men Prefer White Or Lightskin Women?)
LikeLike
Le reyna – I am glad you went back to that meeting. That man was a dumb @ss. Be proud of who you are. I grew up in a christian white family – but was raised that one should judge a person actions – and nothing else. Edvidence of my parents beliefs can be found in their grandchildren.
Oleu – not all white american men are so narrow minded. My husband has dated in the past and been engaged to women of many different races. And I know lots of inter racial couples where I live – where the women is black. And not “light skinned could pass” But beautifully african with dark skin and rich dark eyes. Tis is not to say that light skineed black women are not beautiful. But my point is that not all white men are so narrow minded.
LikeLike
oleu Says:
Fri 13 Mar 2009 at 00:49:44
“I want to ask a black women a question , you are americans don’t you know that most white american men are racist?not all, most are .I am from a different country , and i noticed how black females (those with african feautures) are consider “ugly” by mosst white american men.The less you look like an african the more attention and looks you get.”
Oleu, there are many American white men who are attracted to women with African features. You just haven’t met them and many of them don’t advertise it.
LikeLike
in reply to oleu, colonialism started in europe and really only ended in the 1980’s in regards to the english speking world. France still has colonies in martinque and guadaloupe. so there. and as for white european men not being as racist as others… bullcrap!!! many of them have binary hatred /sexual desire thing going…. you sound delusional.
LikeLike
hie people, im a black female who was raised in africa and is currently going to college in america. i am skinny (fast metabolism), and have a medium complexion. most people tell me that i am cute and have a very good command of the english language, i am also very laid back.i just wanted to say that most of the time when i meet black males and they find out that i am african i get the “eeeuuuu!!!! you’re from africa!you’re blacker than i am!!” typy of look, after which they wont even give me a chance. but white guys will come and talk to me, and when they find that i can speak very good english, laugh, have a positive attitude and actually know what’s happening around the world they are very attracted. interesting!!and then you know what happens? the same black guys who despised me at first come back and give me attention. it feels like they think ‘ok, if the white dude liked you maybe you’re good for something’ what”s up with that? back home the issues that matter here dont matter there at all, and there are a number of white people, and yes our country was colonised . just thought that was really funny.
LikeLike
I find the generalizations a necessary component to any argument and in this instance it does not differ. As a young, educated white male, the tendency in choosing a partner usually lies in the given situation. Meaning, if you go out to meet a black woman at an Irish pub, the chances on meeting a BW are probably pretty slim. So, first question, does the place that WM look to meet BW play a major role in the situation?
I grew up and go to school in San Francisco where sexual diversity and bi-racial relationships seem to be a norm; except in the case of white men with black women. The reverse is open and you see many BM with WW. Even in a city as vast and culturally diverse as SF is, there seems to be lacking connection between BW and WM. I can speak for myself only, but in my experience BW are not as in tune for a bi-racial relationship with a WM as is for a BM with a WW. Again, this is only personal experience and I am basing this only on simple observations.
Without any brag or boast, I have no problem meeting women or men that matter. I have a build which could be closer associated to that of a BM – as a former college athlete, I have thick legs, a skinny waist, toned upper body. As my my parents are not orig. from the the states I do not look like a traditional midwestern WM. Instead I have defined jaw line, large lips and darker skin than that of the majority of white men (my italian side) and very little body hair (my dutch side). Before this begins to sound like a personal ad, I have to say that these are broad characteristics, and in no way does appearance produce immediate qualities for attraction. They are simply characteristics that those people close to me (other than myself) have observed and wondered why women of other ethnicities seem to find them attractive, when it is the BW who I truly desire but seem to have no luck in meeting.
As an open minded individual, I see skin color simply as pigmentation and still, I have not had the opportunity to date a black woman. I believe this can in part be attributed to the places I frequent, the crowds being predominantly white, asian and latin. – writing and art based. Nonetheless, I have still pursued many BW and yet, I have been left wondering what it is that a woman wants, then, what is that a BW wants from or desires in a WM?
Yes, stereotypes are thrown to the wind in this posting, however in my life, they seem to be true. Could it be my demeanor? The over-confidence I tend to exude? Could it be that I am just not the right fit for the individual women regardless of my ethnicity? Again, without sounding like too much of an ass, I have absolutely no problem meeting other ‘types’ of women, so why is there this barrier between me and that which I desire?
The conversations, the looks and the flirtation never seem to be any more than an initial hello and consequent good-bye. So why is it that the approach is never a problem, rather the next five minutes are. Her friends begin to question and assume and my friends do the same. Could it be that even in a racial melting pot such as San Francisco, the larger picture, the one in which nationwide racial borderings can have an effect on the inner city? Are we behind the times, even in the most diverse and accepting city in the US?
These are questions with personal association written all over them, I know, but they are also feelings and situations felt by other white men. So I pose this question; If a black man and a white man with similar physical attributes, speech, dress education and personality stand next to one another – would it be would they both stand an equal chance in courting the same BW? (obviously case dependent but the i believe you see the larger picture that I am getting at) Is society in the way of the evolution of bi-racial contact? or is it simply based on individual preference?
LikeLike
Few white men would date Toccora Jones?
Hmmm.. sure … few gay white men. (Actually I am not so sure about that.. for a while most of the “gay” men I knew were having more sex with women than I was .. very annoying..)
LikeLike
I agree with a lot of what is written on this page, sad but true.
I just moved to the Midwest and find a lot of white men look at me but never appoach me.
thatgirljenn1@yahoo.com if you live around here and would like to talk and hopefully have a meaningful relationship (i’m 24)
LikeLike
I am a black South African woman interested in marrying a white male preferably with blonde or light brown hair and blue or blue-green eyes. I’m 5’7 and size 10, 130lbs and friendly. My add: tan83@webmail.co.za
I love black men and I don’t have issues with the way I look, I’m beautiful..I just have this strong attraction towards white guys
LikeLike
tan83@webmail.co.za if you would love to marry a South African woman, I am very friendly and love white guys
LikeLike
European men are more open to interracial dating but I think they might be more prejudiced about nationality. For instance, black American women get eaten up in Germany but I don’t know how it is for African women.
Of course, if you’re in France or Italy, the blacker the better.
Black woman married to a German man, BTW. Dated a few white American and British men, as well, and had no problems. A few of my other black friends and relatives are married to or dating white men. If anything, my experience would say that white men have a preference for the REALLY dark African-looking women. As one French colleague put it: “You’re pretty Vanessa, but so pale. What is the point of dating a black woman if she looks like a white one?” Then they all started waxing ecstatic about dark women. (roll eyes here)
And remember, the one-drop-rule doesn’t apply over there so they probably wouldn’t even consider you “black” unless you were REALLY dark. Usually they’d describe me as an “American girl” and physically as “dark-skinned, dark-haired, and curvy” (and my husband always adds “short”. For them, black is a color.
For example: Boris Becker was married to a black woman for a long time (and they were a much-admired couple) and then cheated on her (before getting divorced) with a string of dark-skinned but not necessarily black women. Asian, Middle-Eastern, South American, African, he didn’t care as long as they were dark enough.
LikeLike
please take a look at my very own site geared towards this matter its called swirl society an exclusive website for black women and white men we have just changed over to our new look and it is 100% free to join
LikeLike
my name is squirrel and im a white guy and i feel that if you love someone white or black it because you love that person. i have mixed people in my family and i love all of them and by the way i married a black women and she has small lips and a small butt and dark skin we was togother for 12 years until god need her and i still love her.
LikeLike
I grew up in Texas and have lived here all of my life. I don’t know about New York, but no one dates black women here unless they are rebellious. I dated and was engaged to a white man for almost 10 years, only to find out that he never felt comfortable marrying me because of the racial slurs he was subjected to unbeknownst to me. Knowing that you love someone, but that the world will never let you have them, is something I wish on no one.
LikeLike
“Just love the one your with.”
My girlfriend and I are inseparable. I cannot even begin to tell you ‘all just how special of a person she is. We celebrate our differences, and yet marvel at our similarities.
I spend most of my time enjoying her inner beauty, rather than focusing on her hair configuration, skin tone, size of her hips/butt, etc.
Having said all the above, I’m not oblivious to the sometimes jaundice looks we get as an interracial couple; wm-bw. I just chose to focus on those that say “you two are such a happy couple.”
Ciao tutti!
LikeLike
Hi Everyone,
This blog is really interesting and I have found most to be true.
I’m a slender/curvy BW with natural hair and am compared to Tracy Ellis Ross often, and noticed that more WM find me attractive and exotic then BM do.
My booty was never big enough for a Blk guy, skin never light enough, and my dialect never black enough. WM and other nationalities however look at me and see a beautiful natural woman of color. I spent many years trying to be accepted by BM and did date many, but it always ended with them wanting a “blacker” sista.
True Love really is color-blind in my opinion, i have learned that in my experiences. Once i stopped trying to be a stereo typical “Video girl” and just accepted who God wanted me to be, love found me.
sappy but so true!
LikeLike
When it comes to matters of the heart, you should always follow your heart!!!
Love & Soul mate are hard to find as is!! AND marriages are hard to maintain.
For example the rate of divorce in the US alone, is probably at 80% now..and this is mainly due to the fact that American men & women across the board marry not for love, BUT for status,money,jobs,connections and so forth.
Do not be delusion to the USA is a melting pot.. Racism is alive and well in the good ole USA and it will continue to be so, You want to see a real melting pot, go to London & Holland & Paris! -let us not leave out the Italian men-they are marrying African & Carribean Black women at alarming rates!!!
In the US in order for Whites to maintain power, they must keep a group/s beneath them. Although this is changing due to the population change. Also I find that American men(regardless of their race) are weaker in mind set than most other men from other countries, hence why most white american men (although they desire other women of color) pretend and marry what society here wants them to marry..AND this in term leads to the massive amounts of cheating and adultery. (who do you think frequently visit hookers..and the women they cheat rarely look like their wives in Suburbia..
I have lived in both London, Paris & New York and could not wait to return to London!!! Talk about comparing genuine and melting pot people to fake and phony & RUDE New Yorkers.. Americans need to catch up to the rest of the world if they want to be apart of it.
Black American women need to realize that outside of the US, they are valued, loved and appreciated and need to be more open minded..this coming from a Scottish/Dutch & Pakistani woman who has been HAPPILY married to a georgeous German/Hungarian man for 10 years and happily lives in London!!!
Always stay true to yourself and who you are, you only have 1 Life!
LikeLike
Jeanette Says:
“My booty was never big enough for a Blk guy, skin never light enough, and my dialect never black enough. WM and other nationalities however look at me and see a beautiful natural woman of color. I spent many years trying to be accepted by BM and did date many, but it always ended with them wanting a “blacker” sista.”
Jeanette, I am a little confused when you say you are not light enough for BM, but that they are looking for a woman who is “blacker?”
LikeLike
Oh, I did love London… A great place for a woman to travel to alone. Not at all scary and the people are very open and friendly there. Cricket, you know.
And so much cleaner and pleasanter than Paris. I found Strasbourg, Toulouse, and some other parts of France much better than Paris. New York is pretty nice but the people… I don’t know. Not really my kind of place.
We actually thought about moving to London or Cambridge (we have friends living in England) but the weather is just… so… crappy. It really is. Such a shame because it’d be damn near paradise, otherwise. Where else can you get such great curry AND sushi?
Yes, Europe seems less racist when you live there than America does. Race has resurfaced as a topic for me since I moved back. It’s all so segregated here. Sort of depressing. There are people who move across the divide but the divide is still there.
There are many things that are better here than over there, but race-relations isn’t one of them, IMO.
For 10 years I was just another American woman and now I’m a “What exactly are you? No, I mean REALLY?” again. *sigh*
LikeLike
If black men are more attracted to slim women, then why are they usually seen with fat sloppy looking “bottom of the barrel” white women? Could this indicate that black men hold black women to a higher standard than white women. If so, would this explain why 70% of black women are single via abandonment by their own black men? Hmm just a thought.
LikeLike
70% of black women are single? LOL!!!! (As if someone could honestly tabulate that, anyway).
Aba maintains that black men tend to go for ‘thicker’ women. Not slim.
I swear, Aba, this blog attracts the craziest white posters. How do you do it? LOL.
LikeLike
Some of her examples of women that white men would not date are way off. Sade was married to a white man for over 15 years. Estell has a child with a white guy. I do see her point, but when it comes to black people in Europe like Sade and Estelle all bets are off because European men aren’t so picky, they just black must be exotic.
LikeLike
Estelle has a child with a white man? Really? I didn’t know that she was a mother.
Yes, Sade was married to Carlos Scola, a Spaniard for years. However, her daughter’s father is Jamaican.
LikeLike
what: Right, I am basing it on what I see in New York. I hear that in Europe the white men have much broader tastes in black women. They seem to see their beauty more – or maybe they are just more honest about it.
I have a blog called Black Beauty of the Day. It gets a ton of hits from Britain, Germany and the Netherlands. I know there are plenty of blacks in London and black American servicemen stationed in Europe, but I think it is more than just that.
LikeLike
Heather said:
If black men are more attracted to slim women, then why are they usually seen with fat sloppy looking “bottom of the barrel” white women? Could this indicate that black men hold black women to a higher standard than white women. If so, would this explain why 70% of black women are single via abandonment by their own black men? Hmm just a thought.
Wow, I hope that made you feel better. It is not quite that simple. Here is my take on it:
I do not know where you got the 70% from or the idea that I think black men go for slim women. What I have said is that in America most black men go for thick women while most white men go for thin women:
If that is true, then it would make sense that black men would be with white women that their own men see as being “too fat” or, as you put it, “fat sloppy looking ‘bottom of the barrel’ white women”.
LikeLike
mynameismyname said:
I swear, Aba, this blog attracts the craziest white posters. How do you do it? LOL.
I was warned they would come. I try not to answer them right away but wait till I am calmer.
LikeLike
“I was warned they would come?” really? If a white man, or latin man was to come to the site and generalize all black men and women as “they” how would it be taken.
To give you the benefit of the doubt, who exactly is “they?” – and what are 99% percent of people on this sire here for? – to figure out the barrier between the world of black and white. A strong barrier that has withstood the time to still be a barrier when a black president is in office.
There are larger issues than “they” and to generalize most the white posters on this site as crazy defeats the purpose of trying to learn through communication. I find that sad, and in a way you make this blog seem like a circus or gimmick – “how do you do it?”
Its not an issue of slim, thick, characteristics and I myself learning too, but to take it to a place where we are categorizing posters by race and mental stability goes against everything I hoped this blog stood for.
In times like this I wonder what poet and professor Camille T. Dungy would say about the above comments. I believe she would feel this is digressing from point of such a place where people can meet and break down stereotypes and color boarders.
Just saying…
LikeLike
“They” refers to “the craziest white posters”. I thought that would be clear from the rules of English. Most white posters are not crazy. And even the “craziest” ones are probably not crazy in the clinical sense of insane, but just ignorant, trollish or flat-out racist.
LikeLike
You know, Imus’ comments did not hurt me. Infuriated me, perhaps, but not hurt. The reason being that I expect that kind of comment from his ilk. And many people of his hue, unfortunately share that belief and our culture reinforces it. What hurts is when it comes from the community. When it comes from people in one’s own family. From your own men. When your own little niece all of seven years old taunts her sister for being too black, that hurts. That hurts.
LikeLike
Wow…as a white man dating a Sudanese woman, I don’t even know what to say. I’m baffled by how ridiculously racist this article is. I don’t know if it’s worse that someone took the time to write this or that I took the time to respond.
LikeLike
It would be better for everyone if you said just how it is racist.
LikeLike
Most european men that i met are married to very dark skin black women with out white admixture ,if they had white blood i wasn’t able to tell.In europe the darker the better .I get hit on over there by lots of white men , but my dark african friend not mixed got alot of the attention .I worked on base there was alots of white european nato guys most of them were after black womem and part black women lots of them ignored white women.The american military men black and white were giving all the attention to the white women , but most of the white women wanted something different , but they were angry when the black women and part black women with dark skin was given all the attention .I am part black , i am multiracial lots of the nato guys were all over me , asking me out , they gave me their phone numbers , i dated some of them and i had one serious nato boyfriend , it was crazy , some of the african american women fell in love with a white , nato , officers and were engaged.The nato guys were from the uk , denmark , sweden , belgian , portugal , spain , and norway.One danish , gorgeous, officer with blond hair and blue eyes was interested in me , but one white amrican officer introduced him to a white american women with blond hair , he was so upset and refused to talk to the white american women , then the danish officer asked me out and told me if he wanted a white women he will have one specialy from his country because they are much more beautiful and naturaly blond.He also said to me he wasn’t interested in a white women there is alot in his country , he loves black or part black womwen because they are exotic .I am from europe so i am not surprised about the nato guys behavior , i get hit on all the times in europe.Please , excuse my spelling , english is my second language.I am going back to europe and i wish to marry a blond , hair and blue eyes european men , i think they are so hot and open minded , not all of them , but most of them.Even eastern european men who are much more close minded because commust party love black or part black women , i go hit on alot buy blond hair and blue eyes eastern , european men and they all looked like models.I love european men , they treat me better then the white american men i dated ,although i look exotic my black ancestry is a problem for most white american men , that is their problem not mine .At least european men sees my beauty , not just lust over it but want something very serious with me .
LikeLike
I meant that i worked in an amrican base , there was alots of nato , good looking , young , handsome guys and most of them looked like models and didn’t want a white american women at all.I felt like a queen and a pop star , lots of african american in that base felt desame way , it was really crazy , white american men always after the white women on base , i can’t stand racist people , i love open minded people.I think european men look very good and they take care of themselves more.
LikeLike
I am always the second choice for a white american men , but the pure black women with african features are in the botton of the list from any american men of any ethnicity white is always beautiful in america , who wants to be second choice , i want to be first choice , white women is always first choice in america .I am not american , i don’t have to deal with crap like that if they have a problem with me that is their problem.I was shocked that many black women in america didn’t know that black women are consider exotic and hot in europe , well i am not surprised the western media don’t tell you everything .Many african women don’t deal with that kind of racism , many european men from all over go to africa to choose wives they think african women are just lovely and exotic.
LikeLike
I was shocked when i came to america because i didn’t see many black women with white men relathionships as i saw in europe , then i found out why many white american men told me black women were not their cup of tea , or not even attractive , yeah alots of them told me that , so it is not all the black women fault ,i met quite of few black women who were attracted to white guys and many told me those white guys will not dated them because they are not attracted to black women , give me a break , it has to do with racism , why white european men , most of them don’t feel desame way as white american men? i know the answer .I know some europeans are racist , but the majority are not and they are not as ignorant , believe me.Some one told me interacial marriages between black women and white men in america is increasing , but in my oppinion the percentage is not as high as in europe.Many black men from america , carribean and african always preffer white women , i know alots of them who loves white women , and always they say something negative about black women too.
LikeLike
I would like to respond to Oleu’s post about European men being more open to dating black women. My experience being a Black British woman in London white men have not been very to open dating BW. The numbers of BW/WM couples are very low compare to BM/WW and that it rare to see BW/WM in the street in London. However, WM in the UK don’t mind dating mixed race women but it a big No No to BW and their justification for this racism is, it a personal thing so it’s okay.
Black women in the UK are not seen as the ultimate beauty so we suffer in terms of finding partners for marriage/dating etc – we have the highest rates of singleness compare to other groups of women in the UK.
Please check out this link on white male students attitudes towards dating black and mixed race women.
Their comments do not surprise me one bit, racism in the UK is always there but is concealed to protect the UK’s image of being ‘tolerant’.
LikeLike
Oleu: Thank you for your interesting comments. To American men you are not exotic because there are plenty of black women in their home country and, besides, like you said, they are seeing you through the racism you grew up with.
LikeLike
I dont agree with your “white guys would date these women, but not these” Id date any of those women except for maybe the woman in the african garb. Nothing to do with it being “to black” or anything, i wouldnt date a polish girl in a burka or a dutch girl wearing the ridiculous dutch skirts they wear. No matter the skin color most off the boat looks dont work for me. Hell i find the so called bombshells of the 80s to be lackluster just because of the big 80s king kobra hair. That goes for Farah Fawcett and Vanessa Williams.
LikeLike
Also i never understood the whole “i just dont find them attractive” thing that some white men say in regards to black women. It makes no sense to me. Im convinced its just a racism thing they cant get passed and they dont even give a women a chance who isnt white. Or they are just lying to me and themselves.
LikeLike
A 54 yo WM with a history in cross-cultural dating I happened on this while browsing for eye-candy …
For what it’s worth, Naomi Campbell would embody the black beauty for me (her outside, that is). Regardless of colour, I prefer women with subtler shapes on a slim frame, and an attractive face. Colour is secondary, although I don’t cherish pasty white. Shade of dark in skin doesn’t matter, in fact the darker the more alluring the contrast with the pink bits. The permanent tan of mulattas is nice too, especially with a cascade of curly locks (although my Colombian ex had wire-brush-like pubic hair with it). Natural hair: it’s nice to dig one’s fingers into an afro, but I appreciate that women tend to want what they haven’t got. Just don’t go for blonde (although there are natural blondes and redheads in Papua New Guinea and the Solomon Islands).
Hungary in the 1970s had too few black people to have real prejudices. My Eritrean girlfriend at university was seen as a curiosity by my mates, but my mother liked her a lot (in hindsight she was the one to marry, but I headed to Australia and she back home to fight for independence).
Australia is pretty easygoing with mixed relationships. Most Aboriginals are culturally very distant for others, hence intermarriage is less than it used to be during convict times. We have few Africans, so mixed couples tend to have a SOuth-East Asian half (Indians don’t marry out). Still, when I was going out with a Ghanian, it raised no eyebrows.
LikeLike
I couldnt agree with you more! Having lived in white neighborhoods all my life in Europe the Us and Africa (shocking I know) I confirm that white men are more in to face and slim body shape. I am a very dark skinned woman, but I am tall and slim have no but what so ever, and very fine features and I get picked up more by white men than black men. White men will even approach me over light skinned good looking black females with more “african shape” bodies. And yet I am from Africa!
LikeLike
Well, fleur, I think the ‘healthy’ African image is shaped by Western and Southern Africans, and by Afro-USians who tend to have the same providence. All the world saw of East Africans is famine photos from Ethiopia and fighiting in Somalia – even though those regions’ inhabitants stay reed-slim even when having access to three square meals a day. That said, a good Kenyan mate was stocky as, and a look at my onetime Ghanian fiance would have driven Barbie to drink.
LikeLike
CONFIDENCE IN THE INDIVIDUAL IS WHAT PEOPLE LIKE! I AM A BLACK FEMALE AND GROWING UP WAS MADE FUN OF BY OTHER WHITE NEIGHBORHOOD KIDS FOR BEING BLACK. I AM AN ADULT EDUCATED THREE KIDS MARRIED TO A WHITE MAN THAT ADORES ME. EVERYWHERE I GO WHITE MEN TRY TO HIT ON ME. BLACK MEN HIT ON ME AS WELL, THEY GET ANGRY WHEN THEY SEE MY HUSBAND IS WHITE. I AM CONFIDENT OF WHO I AM!
LikeLike
Hey sisters and brothers. This article is VERY interesting. I am a dreadlocked, dark-skinned Black sister (a little darker than India Arie’s range of color) and have to be honest. I will state loud and clear that I prefer and love the Black man to a point of preferring DARK-SKINNED brothers and fantasizing about dark-skinned Black babies. However, as a 24 y/o natural dark-skinned sister who is thin, but proudly African-shaped, I primarily get approached by White and/or Latino men. I’ll even get a little Asian attention from time to time. Many brothers, from what I have experienced throughout my life, tend to be Eurocentric in their views of beauty and prefer lighter skinned sisters with long weaves.
LikeLike
Jessica,
Out of curiousity, do you find that your preference for “dark skinned brothers” is shared by other black women?
What nationality are these Latino guys? Spanish Caribbean? Mexican? South American?
LikeLike
Hi mynameismyname,
Personally, I feel that since the ‘Nubian King’ explosion of the early 90’s, that yes, the love for darker skinned brothers is much more evident than when my mama was little. My preference for dark-skinned brothers has always been via my Afro-Caribbean mother teaching me that darker skin is superior.
To your second question, here in the NYC area, these Latino men tend to be Caribbean Latinos (Puerto Ricans, Cubans, etc.) On one occasion, I had a South American (Colombian) guy ask me out to dinner.
On the ‘white men who have approach me’ side, I tend to be approached believe it or not by Jewish men. I have never been approached by an Italian; which is interesting in that the rumor is that many Italian men like sisters.
LikeLike
This black and white thing seems to follow us wherever we go… Can’t we just stop stressing our beautiful selves? If a guy loves you so be it. I have noticed that white guys especially in South Africa go mainly for black ladies with even skin tone(irregardless of shade), well kept hair if you wanna call it that(weaves, long hair) mainly thin to medium weight.**But this does not mean if you are fat and short they will never approach you. I have noticed that the way you (as a lady)respond to a guy is very important…if you seem interested he will go ahead and ask you out but if you have the black/white attitude then nothing will happen.
LikeLike
Hey Jessica,
From my vantage point, which is influenced by location, most black American men could easily be called “dark skinned”. Would you agree?. So, you and all the other ‘sisters’ should be a kid in the candy store! LOL.
These PR and Dominican men generally tend to be black or have West African-influenced features, no? Does this affect their attraction to other Afro-Caribbean women, I wonder?
Oh, Jewish men, along with Italians and Middle Easterns, are known for their liking of chocolate pudding. LOL.
LikeLike
I think the comment about white men liking women with white qualities other than their skin.. okay skin is the only thing that can be qualified as black or white. I think a better way to express that is that they go for a woman with a certain type of etiquette or by the way she carries herself which is more of a class or social classification than it is race.
LikeLike
IM A WHITE MAN WHO HAS BEEN IN RELATIONSHIPS WITH BLACK WOMEN EVERY SINCE I WAS IN JUNIOR HIGH..AND IVE DATED LIGHT AND DARK SKINNED WOMEN -I PREFER THE DARKER SKIN SUCH AS MY BEAUTIFUL WIFE WHOM IVE BEEN WITH FOR OVER 20 YEARS!
LikeLike
Im a BW who is educated, career oriented, funny yet shy. My experience with WM is non-existent. A good friend of mine is tired of seeing me bomb out with brothers and their issues, she suggested to me to try dating a WM or even a African. My response to her was, “and where would I meet such men?” My job is not conducive to meeting that caliber of man and the internet hasn’t helped either. Can anyone suggest a starting point and pointers to me?
LikeLike
hello PrivateAlwasy;
I’m an African woman, a native of Africa to put it simple, I don’t understand what you mean by saying you are a Black Woman (BW) and have bombed out with brothers (brothers refers to black man (BM) is that not so? Or are you saying you have dated African American, not native Africans?
For starters: Internet dating, your profile must draw attention, your profile picture (one with a smile on)must be lively and smart, your hair.
Put yourself out there, you will be surprised at the response
LikeLike
I’m white and from London. I have been out with black women light and dark they have all been girls who have just came here to England from Africa. I prefer black girls who are from Africa to black girls who are born here in England they have a much better attitude.
LikeLike
perhaps you could come up with a list of black men that people like?
LikeLike
Being a man beautiful women are interesting to me, but men are not, not in terms of their looks. So I will have to pass on that one, but thanks for the suggestion.
LikeLike
Abagond, but don’t you do some of your research for black women using internet lists? The same could be done for the men.
LikeLike
Well, I am a very light skinned Black woman with long auburn waist length hair. My facial features are petite, but I wear a size 14 and I have huge boobs. With that said, I cannot keep White men away from me! I like White men (especially in bed) and I have had a couple of White boyfriends. I get a LOT of attention from White men, but almost none from Black guys, which I find strange because I look like what Black men are “supposed” to prefer in a woman. I’m not complaining, but it is something I’ve noticed.
LikeLike
I think it is the boobs.
LikeLike
Yes – Alot of white guys seem to love boobs. Not all… my husband prefers a womens backside…says you dont buy a girl because of the headlights…iots more about the ride.
LikeLike
i’m a white male from the US, never been out of the country. In the past I have dated a Mexican girl for a while but never had a black girlfriend.
About 2 months ago I met one that I really connected with on a personal level. Her mother is African-American, her father is Brazilian. She is very medium dark color, I’d say…I feel silly saying that though.
But it’s weird because other than us looking so odd together(I’m longhaired, tattooed, bearded, and of a very Irish or Scottist look) but she’s someone I felt like was the female version of me- the same wacky humor, the same opinionated way of approaching conversation, the same enthusiasm and spastic verbal patterns lol.
We’re not really a couple as she lives a few states away but we’ve spent time together and I can honestly say that holding hands with her is the most romantic feeling I’ve ever had in all my years (I’m 40). I was even married to a white woman for 5 years(divorced 2 years back now) and this black woman makes me feel butterflies like I never felt in all those years of marriage.
I have lived in the NYC/NJ metro area for over 10 years, and for 11 years worked at a place where out of about 30 workers, only maybe 5 were white and they were either Russian immigrant, NY jewish, or NY Italian, which is not what I am.
I actually originally hair from a smalltown where there were no black people.
But I never felt any sort of racial stuff ever in all my years.
I think I am in love with this black woman. If she lives closer, I would want to be with her all the time. I try not to be a pest and call her all the time(she rarely answers) and I love when she calls just so I can hear her voice.
I really feel like she is the female version of despite the race. I feel like I have more in common with her than any woman I’ve ever met.
She’s someone I would start a family with. She’s just the most wonderful person I’ve met
LikeLike
I am SO happy I found this post. I always wonder about how others view this situation. I LOVE dating white men!! Im a 24yr old single black girl, caramel complected. I’ve been in serious relationships with 4 white men(2 were European, 2 American), and 1 mexican. I have found it difficult to date white men that actually want something serious. I like younger and older men, but sometimes if Im flirting with an older white guy…they seem to think that I want money or something from them. And I dont, Im pursuing my own college degree. Im just attracted to older white men…. George Strait, Kevin Bacon, even Clint Eastwood are right up my alley. Ive noticed with American white men, the uneducated or blue collar are the kind that seem to hit on me the most. The upper class or educated kind do it also, but they only want bedroom action. I have had great success with european men, as well as a couple hispanic and asian men. I have only dated slim white men. I’ve never been hit on by any other body type. I’d love to find someone that is educated and hardworking, but its hard to know how to approach. I consider moving to a different state(Im in the south) to see if that helps. Most black people say I dont act black(proper english, listen to country music, do “white” things whatever that means), but I do have black features(full lips, curvy body, nose). I dont wear my hair natural though. Im also a Christian woman and Ive noticed that that seems to kind of hurt things too. I dont know if its because BM are more likely to be religious than WM, and those WM that are dont think its acceptable to date a BW.
Anyway, great post, I think the generalazations are correct. Or at least it seems. There are always exceptions. I hope there are exceptions
LikeLike
I’m a BW from San Francisco and I’ve noticed a lot of BW/WM pairings, more than BM/WW. My dad has told me he’s noticing more BW/WM couples also. None of the people in these pairings are a certain type or personality, there’s a lot of diversity so abagond I think you’re promoting a lot of unfair generalizations and only looking at one side of the situation.
I’m learning that many white men are attracted to black women but are hesitant to act on it because they assume black women aren’t attracted to them. Not just white men but Asian men too. Perhaps you should explore black women who are attracted to white men and what types.
I travel to Europe on and off and I’m noticing BW/WM pairings especially in France!
LikeLike
I agree with you Scorpio.
LikeLike
I am an obviously BW. Growing up in southern Virginia I was taunted for being too dark.
When I left home in the ’80’s I was amazed by the attention I got from white men.
Over the years I have become comfortable with who I am. I no longer relax my hair. I have engaged in internet dating. Wen I write my profile I get one BM for every 20 WM respond to my posts.
I have large breasts, a small waist and narrow hips. My aunt says, “The whole subject-verb-agreement-thing is your downfall” with BM.
One BM told me he would rather “eat glass than to date a black woman”. You gotta love the Beltway.
LikeLike
oops. ADD stakes again.
LikeLike
strikes
LikeLike
Luna–Eat glass?! Wow! I’m a BW and I’m not gonna lie I’m finding myself more and more attracted to men of other races, for some reason, I guess I’m becoming an equal opportunity dater—but eating glass rather than date one of us—thats pretty damn harsh. Wonder if he would’ve said that to his momma’s face.
LikeLike
lm a south african, mid toned, mid size, educated but very easy going girl… Oh! Well my attraction varies with time. Ive dated 1euro and semi dated 1yanky! Lol! And abt 3 african guys. I dont get ths whole “acting black” business. Im an easy going with the “have just been shagged” look. If u get my drift with the most diverse friendships… I find that makes it possible to date across all the races. Right now i find confident mid age, mid size, white men attractive. The pool is a bit smaller esp with the country’s history. I just thnk all races need to be a lil open minded and learn to embrace each others uniqueness coz none is superior. You would be pleasantly surprised.
LikeLike
I have noticed the above descriptions mentioned when I see a white guy with a black woman. Interestingly enough, I am black, a medium brown complexion and when I go out with friends they always point out to me how the white men and European men always stare at me and sometimes they approach me more than the black guys. I could never figure out why that was.
LikeLike
I believe that all of the Black Women listed above are absolutely gorgeous. I am white but I consider that all of a woman’s attributes are important. The most beautiful woman I ever met, of any race, was a black woman who was approx. 5’1″ 140 LBS with a traditional Afro Hairstyle, who wore glasses, and had the most wonderful personality and outlook on life one could have. This was 30 years ago and maybe I was asking too much at that time for a Black Woman to date a White man. I ask her out several times before she explain to me that her family and friends would consider it to be totally unacceptable. For me it was love at first meet. I believe I would have married her if she had given me the opportunity. There is not a day that goes by that I don’t think of her and relive the sorrow of her rejection. I still love her and what she stood for. Thanks for listening to an heart broken old man.
LikeLike
It’s a pity this is an issue. No matter how jaded I try to be I am a romantic at heart. Love is so hard to find. We should nurture it at all costs. To hell with the idiots!
LikeLike
I am a BW who has dated white men, Middle Eastern, East Indian and all races of men. I find that because I am 5′ 10 and 150lbs tall and thin, most BM are not attracted to me. I’m not ‘bootylicious’, I’m not busty, I’m dark brwn complexion and I have sisterlocks. WM love my hair, my size and my height. Most BM don’t like my hair, think I’m too skinny and that my boobs are not big enough. All men, regardless, go for the physical if they can have it. WM tend to look beyond that and want more and are willing to have it with a BW who is what I call “civil acting”. We all know there are women in all races who can act “street crazy”. WM are not intimidated if you have an education, or make a decent salary and I must admit that on a financial level, you have less drama to deal with a wonderful night out on the town does not necessarily mean you owe them sex. But then, you have few who missed this category. I think race should not be an issue, but we know in many cases it is. I prefer a WM who has been around African Americans and does feel comfortable with them. Middle Eastern men love African American people for the most part and don’t have color issues, but they are not fearful either (of anything). I don’t like WM who will date you, want sex, but would not want you to move next door.
Just my 2 cents. Love this blog.
LikeLike
Foolish lovers of the flesh. Common lovers of materialism vs. rare lovers of true enlightenment. All day. Everyday ego-drama.
WW will always be the prettiest. G-d will always be the greatest far above all men, above all women, and above all things.
LikeLike
God created sexual attraction to bond men and women. To deny one of God’s gifts is to deny our own humanity.
We all seek love and acceptance. Why is that foolish? You are foolish to diminish what is.
LikeLike
am kenneth from uganda i need a white lady or black +256754121129 my cell number
LikeLike
I am a mixed race woman from the Caribbean maried to a white american man. His sister is married to a black man and have two beautiful children.
I think that since these two white americans (brother and sister) spent their teen years here in the Caribbean, and have undoubtably grown accustomed to seeing black and mixed people and seeing interacial couples, their attraction to another race was not so difficult to explain away to themselves or others.
In the Caribbean race is not so much of an issue. I find class to be the divider. On the islands where I live, mostly affuential people will date other rich, high society people. That these are mostly white people is just a by product of colonial days. If they were to meet other affluential people of another race it doesn’t really affect their choice.
So, that is what I observe in my country. Having said that I went to College in the states. In the deep south where I witnessed things like KKK ralies and so forth. Of course coming from a truly racial melting pot like my country, this was a shock for me.
At the time I was dating a man from my own country who was half white half chinese. Everytime he came to visit me at college we got a lot of attention. I will generalize the responses we got from BW, BM, WM, WW.
BW: some curious looks but nothing negative.
BM: absolute anger towards him and me. They would ask him what he was doing with one of their sistas. To which I would reply I am not their sista, I’m not from America. If anything I felt more of a connection to my boyfriend due to our shared culture.
WM: two very seperate responses. On one have some WM looked a bit jealous or curious and had nothing negative to say. On the other hand (these were mostly racists rednecks) some WM had the nerve to ask my boyfriend what he saw in me. Which of course pissed him off.
WW: Almost the same reaction as the BM. They looked at me like I was dirt and looked at him like he was crazy. I even overheard this one WW say “ewwww” as we walked by.
My point here (sorry if this is rambling) is that it doesn’t just depend on how you look (I am carmel complected, have dark wavy hair, very asian looking eyes, high cheekbones and medium sized lips; back then I was very slim – 5’7″ 115 llbs)My point is that it really depends on the situation you put yourself in. For some people it is not feasible to change your location, but almost everywhere they is a place that is more condusive to meeting the type of person you like and places to go with the person you like that will not result in out right criticism and hate.
I am not saying that anyone should have to put up with that and let others tell them where to go and who to see but for your own peace of mind and happiness, go get what you want and surround your self with as much positive as possible.
This is one of the reasons that I decided to return to my country and live in peace. And I am so glad I found my husband and even though I do find most american men to be pleasant and my husband can act and sound as american as anyone else; I still appreciate that he spent as much time as he did in my culture and can hang with my firnds and family and not be out of place one bit.
LikeLike
I am a white man, married to a Black woman. She, and every other Black woman on the face of this earth, is beautiful beyond compare. No other race can even approach her beauty. My only regret is that I was not born a Black man.
LikeLike
very poorly written – poor grammar , poor context , disorganize
LikeLike
First off, I’m a bw. I don’t agree with parts of the original post. When you say facial features that are “not too black,” I assume you’re referring to a broad nose and full lips. Based on what I’ve seen, white men are not more likely to date/marry a black woman who has a thin nose and thin lips than someone who has a broad nose and full lips. (FYI to all those who are reading this: I have seen Africans who are neither mixed race nor from the Horn of Africa that have dark skin with thin lips and a thin nose, so I don’t think these features can be called European features as some like to call them.) I do agree that wm tend to go for bw who are not overweight, but they don’t have to be skinny, just a healthy, average body-size. When you say wm like bw who act “white,” it is unclear what you mean. I know there are some black people who believe that when a person values education and conducts themselves in a classy manner, the person is acting “white.” Hopefully, that is not what you are saying.
I agree with the comment # 135 who wrote: “For starters: Internet dating, your profile must draw attention, your profile picture (one with a smile on) must be lively and smart, your hair.
Put yourself out there, you will be surprised at the response”
I would also add that women (all people, actually) should cultivate a joyful spirit in themselves that is thankful for God’s blessings. Thank God regularly for all His blessings, from the beauty of nature to the power of love and friendship to laughter to the awesome cuteness of babies to specifics in your own life. Smile wherever you go. Have a glass-is-half-full approach to life. If you have a nasty attitude, stop ignoring or justifying it and start working on it. Lead a purposeful, impactful life and take time to enjoy yourself with hobbies and other interests. Take time to work on your character so you can be the person God wants you to be. If you have self-esteem issues, start addressing them. If you are a person of good character, living a joyful, fulfilled life and you are at peace with yourself, you are more likely to attract quality men.
Also, don’t forget to take care of your physical appearance-lose weight and get a physical makeover, if needed. Order the Breslin hair videos or something similar to learn how to do something different with your hair (braids, kinky twists, a weave) without spending a fortune at the salon.
LikeLike
If you’re a black woman interested in dating interracially, there is a blog that will be helpful for you called “For The Sistas.” It also has posts on dating for black Christian women. Some of the posts are a bit long, but they aren’t any longer than the cover story of a magazine article and I really do think they’ll be useful to you. The blog address is ForTheSistas.blogspot.com. By the way, the blog also has information on dating men from Europe.
Black women need to get off this black-man-only band wagon because, for too many, it obviously is not working. I’m not saying don’t date black men, just expand your options. Please forward this to other black women you know.
LikeLike
I find this interesting.
LikeLike
I find this interesting. Although I have never dated a black woman; I am attracted to those black women who have the same qualities as the white women I am attracted to.
Those physical qualities are: petite, thinner face, thinner nose, higher cheek bones. The color does not matter; in fact there is a very dark black woman at work who has the features mentioned; I find her very attractive.
I do not like the black women who have the big thick lips, the big noses and the rounder fleshy faces.
Finally, the hair; I definately do not like the blank kinky hair.
LikeLike
I’m a WM, married to a blue-eyed WW. I never dated a BW, though I do find some very attractive.
Physically, skin tone and body type are not so important, but hair can be. I find frizzy, wiry, or kinky hair unattractive, and these appear more frequently on BW. On the postive side, many BW have beautiful facial bone structure and magnificent muscle tone.
Behaviorally, I find some of the stereotypical traits of American black women sexually unappealing. For one, they tend to be TOO LOUD. For another, they often cross the line from assertiveness (a positive trait) to in-your-face obnoxiousness (a very negative trait). On the positive side, many BW smile and laugh easily.
LikeLike
Stick, There are some things you MUST understand. A loud, obnoxious woman is not attractive any group.
The hair-thing, Darlin’ is what God gave us. There is no denying what we’ve got. Even those of us with curly hair will hit a day when the frizz takes over. It part of the genetic make up.
LikeLike
I hear you Stick, but that’s why we are black and not white, we are different. If you like a black woman you must remember she is a black woman and has a black woman’s hair. I cant say that I like white guys but I dont like the pale skin, that my dear will be immaturity of a mentality.
LikeLike
A man who isn’t an ANTI-BW RACIST/HATER doesn’t take isolated negative traits that can apply to ANY woman of ANY race and generalize them to ALL BW.
A man who isn’t an ANTI-BW RACIST/HATER treats BW as INDIVIDUALS and NOT as STEREOTYPES based on ANTI-BW LIES and MYTHS.
A man who isn’t an ANTI-BW RACIST/HATER respects the HUMANITY, DIGNITY, FEMININITY, AND BEAUTY of BW instead of expecting them to conform to White/non-Black beauty standards.
LikeLike
Straight up I am married to a black woman. And it really depends on where the white man was brought up and how much he knows about the black culture. All of my friends are black, asian or hispanic. However I am not what people tipically call a wanna bee. I am plain old me. I have never dated a white girl believe it or not. I find that an educated black woman that knows what she wants out of life is the sxiest thing in the world. Laters
LikeLike
I am a BW in a relationship with a BM and I am not happy. Do you really want to know when I was happiest last? When I used to hang out with my white male friend. He was not my boyfriend but my friend. I used to find myself missing him because he and I were alot like. He understood me and though we would argue or agree on history, music,politics and various other subjects, I always felt like I could be myself. The BM that I am currently with does not make me feel that way. It is almost like my intelligence and education makes him feel uncomfortable. I have never tried to make him feel that way. I did everything possible to go out of my way to include him in my life. The type of job I have, I work around alot of whites. But I cannot take him to a function nor would he go. But it is always expected for me to go with him and fit in with his friends. I am saying all of this to say that I love this man to spite his faults but I am not happy. I realized that I want to open my horizons to others and explore and that may mean dating a WM or other. I am willing to try and see how it happens. I know that all BM are not like this but I have had my share of wrong kind. I just want to see what else is out there for me. So those who have not dated outside, give it try like I am going to do…..and check back
LikeLike
Kitter, as a woman of “A Certain Age,”
your problem is not with BM, but with your man. I was dating a WM who is very uncomfortable in the company of people in power position. It surprised me the first time we went to an office function — especially since he was a newspaper editor in Washington, DC.
LikeLike
Thank you luna….I did not want to put that stigma on BM and hopefully that someone would reinforce that it was a “man” problem. That means I need to change my “man” problem.
LikeLike
i myself am a 20year old white man from the uk ive alwise did like both black and mixed women, and to what BlackgirlUK said the guys who do only like the mixed girls probable wont end up with them people can sence that kind of attitude, myself ive grown up with a mixed race aunt who is half carribian and british and i know for a fact that he himself likes the dark women with african features as do i, ive also seen alot more darker looking women on childrens tv aswell, also remarking on the pictures up the top they all good looking women in my books but i do like venus williams and serna also faith oyegun, about the shape of black women i like them curvey and thats women period, as for the hair myself the ethnic look is good.
LikeLike
I from London and i hardly see BW/WM couple but the other way around i see all the time even in uni i don’t see it that much maybe because i’m not old enough to notice that much(19) i need to move to Germany or France to find myself a nice white man, (i’m black by the way)
LikeLike
I agree with Indie girl comment that I rarely see BW/WM couples in London. I’m always suprised when I do come across one. Like I’ve said before BW in the UK suffer from the same beauty standard issues that BW in the USA suffer from.
LikeLike
ive only ever seen a few couple of BW/WM myself but i live in cardiff so there are probabley less here, i thought london would have alot more but i have seen a couple of BW/WM on TV latley on house decorating programs must be more people in germany and france who do it, as of the beauty standed thing probably do suffer from it but white guys who like women like mainstream women probably will only like some women, but there are guys in ever country who do myself and a couple of my other friends if you live in london you need to meet some german guys they like there BW, i alwise thought till now that there wont many BW in UK who do like white men lol.
LikeLike
thanks BlackgirlUK
i also heard that white men in Ireland in some parts anyway like black women. i always thought they were the most racist. lol but there was an irish guy in my class who was nice.
LikeLike
i heard alot of irish guys like BW i think the scots do to ive heard that some BW are against the idea ive seen alot of comments BW from the U.S.A but i didnt know about the UK. what do your friends think of the whole BW/WM idea?
LikeLike
I am really happy that I came across this blog. I am biracial; my 55 yo father is WHITE (if you want to dig deeper, his ancestors were swedish and finnish) and my 50 yo mother is AFRICAN (she came from Uganda). My father thinks black women are the most beautiful ones of the world. He has liked them ever since he met Diana Ross at a concert. Even though he liked Diana Ross, my father loves the darkest black women with the most African features the best. He loves his women literally black (lol)! He doesn’t think Beyonce is attractive, he says “she is too light!” I live in Minnesota in the USA. Our state is claimed to be the most interracial one in the country, and that is true. But the interracial couples are mostly BM/WW or WM/AW. I don’t see many WM/BW. I go to a suburban high school (I’m 17) and it’s hard going there. Whenever dances come around, I get sad because I know no one will ask me or other black girls. This really takes a toll on my self-esteem. The messed up part is that the black men (there are probably 10 black guys and 30 black girls) at my school only date white girls and a lot of them act like the stereotype of a black man (not doing well in school, playing basketball, shunning black women, etc). Sorry to be stereotyping but the black men at my school are how most black men in Minnesota act unless they are come from an educated family or they’re biracial or they are african..etc. OF COURSE I know there are some exceptions but the truth of the matter is.. a lot of the black men reinforce the stereotype.
From what I have noticed around here… if I ever see a white man dating a black woman she is usually biracial. I am 5’9” and 135 LBs: I’m tall and thin. My looks can be compared to Halle Berry, I have a caramel skin color and I have finer facial features (I have smaller lips and a smaller nose)..people say I look ethiopian. I wear my hair naturally and I get compliments from white girls but black girls hate my hair. I don’t think men like my natural hair too much because when I get my hair straightened or braided in singles I get 10X more attention. So I am not quite sure if white men like the whole natural look. I feel like white men were looking at me a lot when I had it in braids that resemble European hair than when it was in a FRO. I really don’t like America (or maybe just Minnesota) because I feel like women have to be close to European beauty in order to be considered beautiful. Basically my whole life I wanted to be any other race except black. I feel like the media really puts down black beauty because they don’t advertise TRUE black beauty. Famous black american women tend to be light skinned or have light eyes or have long hair (or long weave, haha). Think of the 3 most famous black female celebs: Halle Berry, Beyonce, Tyra Banks (I may be off). Notice that most of these women look biracial. This sums up the sad truth of America. To be a sucessfully famous black female, you have to be as close to white as possible. If you have dark skin, you must balance it off with small features (Look at the model IMAN). If you have African features, you must be light skinned (Beyonce). This country we are in makes us all damned. It is constantly telling us that we are not attractive. And one of the BIGGEST PROBLEMS are how “our” men don’t love us. Think about it, our issue of feeling unattractive because of the media wouldn’t be such a problem if our black men told us we were beautiful and dated black women. I wouldn’t care about black men dating interracially IF THEY DATED WOMEN OF THEIR OWN RACE MUCH MORE THAN ANY OTHER RACE (just like other people’s races). Black men are constantly dating outside their race and shunning black women. And when they do date black women, she is light skinned or has fine features. Look at Black male singers’ music videos, there are so much more latina and very light skinned black women. My jaw drops in shock when I see a clip of a dark woman. The pathetic part is, these black male singers usually are dark but they won’t date dark women or even have the courtesy to put them in their music video. And many of the black artists will even put lyrics like “She was light skinned” or “Light eyes” or “Long real hair”, etc….. and face it, most of these features are things black women don’t have. When you watch black female singers’ music videos, you will notice that they almost always have black men in their videos. This shows that black women want black men; too bad black men don’t want black women. It is sad…..
There are so many issues in the black community that have to be dealt with. But this issue isn’t going to go away. This is why it is SO IMPORTANT FOR BLACK WOMEN TO BE OPEN TO INTERRACIAL DATING. I know so many black women who are hesitant to date white men and this is why they are still single. Love is not a color and you don’t need to date black men to be satisfied. Look, black men are satisfied with out you; why can’t you be?! Also, most white men aren’t attracted to the stereotypical black women… ghetto “in your face”, obese, uneducated, ignorant, etc. These qualities aren’t attractive to any race!! I feel like a lot of Minnesota black women are mean and scary and unattractive to white men. Many black women need to start taking care of themselves! 70% of African-American WOMEN are obese! That’s crazy!! Black women need to get up… stop eating and instead of worrying about your weave getting messed up, go for a run! And many times white men are afraid to approach black women because of stereotypes, so it is your job to look approachable. Smile, laugh, flirt, and talk to them. Men don’t always have to approach you, you can be the one to approach them.
I have some questions for people on here:
1. Where in America are men into black women?!
2. How is Europe different from America? Are you saying there is less tension between black women and white men when it comes to dating? What parts of Europe are best for this? Is it true that the men like the black women darkest?
3. What can black women do to be more approachable to white men?
Thanks!!
LikeLike
Avaan,
I appreciate your candid and thorough post regarding your observations of how BW are treated by WM and BM in American society. I and other BW on this blog have shared similar negative experiences like the ones you have described.
The only thing that I disagree with you is your conclusion that BW are the ones who NEED to “make themselves more approachable to WM” or that it is a BW’s “job to look approachable”.
On this blog, there have been many discussions (see- Why so few WM marry BW, BW that WM like, Are BW ugly or is it Racism, etc.)about why MOST WM in America don’t establish relationships with BW as they do with NON-BW. What has become very clear is that American society has historically promoted ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE that has affected/continues to affect the way BW are viewed/and treated by WM (and NON-WM).
Also, MOST WM in America who claim to be attracted to BW, allow ANTI-BW COWARDICE or ANTI-BW RACISM to influence whether they choose to have relationships with them. There are American WM who have posted here that, even when they are attracted to BW, they are AFRAID to ask them out for FEAR of what OTHERS may say/think.
Although it may SEEM as if the reasons why BW are rejected are related to SOME BW being overweight, having an “attitude”, or being “ghetto”, the REAL reasons BW are rejected have to do with ANTI-BW RACISM in American society. If you doubt this, observe how many NON-BW are overweight, have nasty attitudes, or behave in a low class/”ghetto” manner, and STILL have NO PROBLEM finding men of EVERY race who will date and/or marry them.
Also, observe how many BW are beautiful, friendly, have excellent personalities, are financially successful, are OPEN to dating men of ALL races, and treat EVERYONE with respect and are still alone, ignored, and treated as if they are INVISIBLE, SECOND CLASS WOMEN.
You are correct to note that the disrespectful, demeaning, degrading way MOST BM treat BW is also a MAJOR contributor to why BW are devalued/discriminated against by MOST men of ALL races. It is disgusting to see how MOST BM go out of their way to trash the HUMANITY, DIGNITY, and HUMANITY of BW- the women who MOST resemble their mothers, grandmothers, and sisters. I know of no other race of men who is doing this and the ADDITIONAL NEGATIVE effect this has on the image of BW can’t be ignored.
I have been most encouraged by the EUROPEAN WM who have stated that they are in relationships with BW and consider BW to be as attractive and worthy of being dated and/or married as NON-BW. I’ve learned that European WM from Germany, some parts of England, France, Ireland, Italy, Scottland, Sweden, and some Eastern European countries are attracted to and open to dating and/or marrying BW.
Please visit the sites noted below for more info. on Black Beauty appreciation and Pro-BW/WM Interracial Relationships and Marriages. I hope you are encouraged by these PRO-BW blogs.
-Beautiful Black Woman-Thoughts Of A White B’woy -Swedish guy’s blog devoted to promoting the beauty of ALL types of Black beauty)
-Sara’s Blog – See pics of a variety of BW in IRR’s or marriages
-Evia’s Blog – See pics of a variety of BW in IRR’s or marriages
LikeLike
This may seem silly to point out but why in the world do people on the internet keep calling Tyra Banks “light skinned”, “biracial” and “mixed-looking”????????
Is there something about that woman that I’m overlooking?
Tyra Banks looks very characteristic of not only everyday black American women but many native West African women.
To say otherwise, is to be ill-informed.
And yes, Lynette, black women up North have no problem finding black mates either. So it may not just be a regional thing. I can use my eyewitness accounts of an event this weekend that can back up this reality.
LikeLike
Lynette,
After reading Avaan’s comment again, I can see how her perspective is skewered. She lives in Minnesota! That state is the interracial romance haven of the world.
Some people use their enviornment to color their view of the world. That’s only natural. But to impose that onto the entire world is not logical or realistic.
Also, ask an everyday American to name a famous black women.
You know who they’re going to say.
OPRAH.
How European and “white-featured” does she look?
LikeLike
Avaan,
First of all I don’t really see how Bee, tyra and Halle look Bi-racial?
Have you ever seen Tyra pic’s when she started modelling? without nose job and bleaching skin(this does apply to all of three) , to me she looks like someone from Rwanda or Somali( LOL).
70% of Black women are obese??? I know plenty of Black women who stay in shape, try to eat healthy and exercise ( I am one of them,I workout 5 times a week)
About Europe( I lived in France, Italy, Switzerland and now in UK( international gal LOL), for what I have witnessed UK,France, Portugal and Germany BW date/marry white men (and other)in high number.
I know some find BW women more family oriented, hotter??? and exotic.
In EU people are more mixed, socially speaking. So that makes things easier.
They like all kind of women but it s true also like what they called the “true” black woman( to them that’s means the darkest one)
and finally there are still some good Black men who like Black women( actually many of them), and you know it rather difficult to find someone for women of any race.
LikeLike
Hey laromana! Thank you for your response. You are right, it is not all the black woman’s fault.
Hi, mynameismyname! I do think Tyra Banks looks biracial. She has green eyes and her skin color is caramel at her darkest. What do you mean by my views are “skewered”?
“Some people use their enviornment to color their view of the world. That’s only natural. But to impose that onto the entire world is not logical or realistic.”
Are you referring to me? I’m confused. What are you suggesting me to do? Are you saying that Minnesota isn’t the whole country? But it sure seems like it after reading the comments….
LikeLike
I noticed some of black women on this blog, when they start describing themselves, they begin with them the skin color is and their features, maybye I am wrong but I find it revealing.
LikeLike
I meant they begin with their skin color
LikeLike
Hey Nubiah!
Okay I just looked at this pic of tyra: http://fileserver.glam.com/glampress/beauty/slideshows/natural/Tyra-Banks-No-Makeup.jpg
You’re right.. she doesn’t look biracial. But her skin color is like one. And Halle Berry IS biracial, so how can she not look biracial? After looking at this picture of Beyonce, I don’t really think she looks biracial other than she is light: http://www.makemeheal.com/news/images/beyonce-knowles-breast-augmentation.jpg
Yeah, look up the statistic for obese black AMERICAN women..it’s somewhere in that ball park.
I am REALLY encouraged by the rate in IR in Europe.!!! It gets me excited, lol. Do you think I should move their when I grow up? Seriously.
LikeLike
Avaan,
Being light skinned doen t mean you are mixed and to me Tyra, Bee and halle are not light skinned and I truly think if she never said her mother was white nobody will see in her the so-called bi-racial look.
Plenty black people have the same skin color and features.
And I know some of them with green eyes( like my brother who appear to be 100% African)
You can see the post on the most beautiful black women( I think) , I put some women from Africa with a variation of skin color, actually one appear to be lighter than Bee, Tyra and Halle and I can put some light/darke skinned with green eyes and they are all 100% african.
and if u want to move in EU, I am about to move in NY in couple of months,so we can swap our life.LoL
I think the first think u have to do is to learn how to love yourself and being more confident, that will make a huge difference in your relationship with men(any race)I know easy to say but not impossible to do.
LikeLike
How come you are leaving EU? What’s so special in NY? lol.
LikeLike
I am working as Makeup artist and hairdresser for tv/mag/theatre and catwalk………. ( so now you can understand why I travel a lot), I need and want to be the best(LOL) so I have to developed my skills and gain more work experience , that’s means going to different places,meet a lot of people and learn from them . That’s pretty good bcz I am fuent french( mother tongue), italian and I am in the process of learning English.
LikeLike
It has been said that it is telling that many of us start with describing ourselves by skin color. I get the distinct impression that I am am probably one of the oldest people commenting.
I grew up in Virginia during a time when black was not so beautiful. I was teased as a child by other black children because my skin is the color of chocolate milk. It was a time when beauty was lighter than a paper bag.
When I began to travel in the late 70’s in Europe was when I was told I was beautiful.
It’s sad to say it wasn’t a young BM was not the first to appreciate the richness of my complexion and the quickness of my wit.
I don’t live with resentment toward BM. There a lot of good BM out there. I just haven’t met many who share my varied life experiences. That is more important than the politics of race.
LikeLike
Wow, Nubiah, I’m really beginning to think that we share the same mind!
In regards to comment #188, I made the same EXACT observation some while ago! Wow.
LikeLike
Lynette,
How was the Essence Festival this year? My cousin went. She had a blast.
LikeLike
mynameismyname: Look at #187. I am extremely curious about your answer.
LikeLike
i like the post. very interesting, and even more so, the comments. i’ve chosen to miss out on the dating of white men. i am also thick, and though educated, very aggressive and proud of being black. i totally understand why a white man has never tried to pursue me. i would keel over. i love the comments of the white males who date black women. it interests me that so many exist. i hope to write on a related subject soon. i welcome your insight.
LikeLike
Avaan,
as someone whos lived in the EU it depends where you go but Id say (probably not so much UK as France and Germany) oddly though its easy to date interracially, there is a lot of discrimination to hiring and advancing people of color professionally. As a mixed race and American this will probably not affect you as much, but it might bother you. Also its tough to get the right to work in the EU, american or otherwise. IF you are just looking to date interracialy try NY, its much easier than going all the way to Europe.
LikeLike
Lynette,
I’m glad that you (and your stomach-LOL) had a good time. I’ve never had the pleasure of visiting New Orleans or the state of Louisiana. Although I did consider attending Tulane University when I was a little younger.
Avaan,
In response to your questions, Nubiah and Lynette pretty much answered it. Saying that a black person with lighter or colored eyes or a skin tone that is lighter than coal looks “biracial” (which is?- what two “races”? is the term “biracial” now exclusively meant for black/white mixture?) is a tad misinformed. Nubiah pretty much said what I was going to say on that matter.
Minnesota is but one state. Your perceptions are real but to impose them on the entire world is very specious. That’s what I meant with that comment. Personal ancedotes are very valuable but at the end of the day, they don’t tell the full picture.
LikeLike
Your statement: “Both black men and white men in America are affected by white ideas of female beauty, but they apply them to black women differently.” Is far to general and a half-truth at best. I’m mixed-race Black & (White/FRENCH) and I see beauty according to my inner-chord of what I see as senuous and beautiful. It could simply be mannerisms; her hair; skin tone (NOT COLOR). And I find some features acceptable for Black women but not acceptable in White women. For example I find a plump, (not fat) White woman attractive, but I don’t like plumpness in a black woman. I like them both with significant body hair. I HAVE A HAIR FETTISH..But I like blach women with short hair, and white women with long hair. Both women must be exceptionally clean, but the lack of a natural NON-offensive body odor is a turn-off…in other words, a little perfume plus a little BO can be a turn on…She must smell like a woman…not a newborn baby! Both must have a sense of humor and a singular sense of identity, not tribal or clannish….she must be the authur of her own likes and dislikes. Beauty is not a necessity, because sometimes beauty is all she’s got and I need more! I guess my taste of beauty comes from my extensive traveling over the years and is definitely not based on a white man’s idea.
LikeLike
am 25 years old black African and am seriously looking for a white man and am sure he will not regret
LikeLike
I am an educated professional white man and find beauty in all races. Regarding Sade, I definitely think she is hot. Whitney Houston is gorgeous. Education and class are important. The “Yo” factor is definitely a turn-off. Regarding any race, stupid, uneducated, street, profanity and loud are out. I have never been attracted to “thick” or fat women of any race. I prefer slim and fit. I like a woman with full lips and round bottom. When Chahka Khan was younger and a lot thinner, she was very sexy. Regarding skin tone – it doesn’t matter, I have been attracted to dark, medium, and light skinned – But smooth soft skin is important. Beyonce – no. Kelly Rowland – YES. Regarding the hair, I prefer more natural. Over processed, over flat-ironed, and too much “product” is a turn-off. The woman has got to be able to dance and move her body well. I have more to say, but that is all for now.
LikeLike
Hi Peter,
Why don’t you like Beyonce?
Also, when you say “natural hair” do you mean afros and curly hair? Or do you like the hair straight?
LikeLike
Avaan,
From a visual standpoint Beyonce looks good and she is a good entertainer, but whenever I have heard her speak she just doesn’t sound very smart. Yes, when I say “natural hair”, I do mean afros and curly hair (very hot) – but don’t get me wrong, if a black woman’s hair is straight it can still be very attractive particularly if it is her natural hair type. Weaves – in general no. Hair plastered straight and flat – no.
LikeLike
Beyonce is mixed. her mother is creole- africna and french. her father is from Bahamian background centerd in Long Island,which is made up of people of mixed ancestry: African, European and Caribe Indian (my step-fathers people and he is related to the knowles as well as rick fox).
Look at West and Central Africans from whom AA people descend from, they don’t have green eyes or copper skin or narrow features. So AA who look like this is mixed.Go to Belgium, you’ll see. Yes some of those narrow features tyra has resmeble Somalis. Tyra is mixed
LikeLike
Black women, bi-racial women, and all women for that matter can be beautiful in their own way. At least for me there is no stereotype of the ideal woman. From an appearance and attraction point of view, I personally have observed extremely attractive women from all racial groups. I just prefer and seem to be more attracted to gorgeous black women and black/mixed race women. Being a white male (blue eyes and brown hair), I am not sure if a black woman even finds me attractive, if she doesn’t give me a sign, it could be just be a nice smile for me to approach her and introduce myself. I don’t know what it is, but beautiful black women just send a wonderful electricity and chemical reaction through my body. The greatest serious loves of my life have been black women and I will tell anyone that.
LikeLike
well this just because socialists control the country in a great degree. Everyone is very prejudice. second, i don’t know what your point is, but those women in the 2nd picture are very much more attractive. I think you deal with only the shallow aspect of this. i don’t know where you get your info from.
LikeLike
There are some very beautiful black women out there I would date a black woman if she was willing to date me. Maybe I am wrong but I feel most black women prefer black men. In my college class there is a beautiful black woman and she is a B#@ch! Makes me wonder if she dislikes white guys. Yes, many white men have done things over American history and I will leave it at that.
LikeLike
Tim, all women want to be treated with respect. If this young woman in your class act like a bitch — maybe she is. You wouldn’t make excuses for bad behavior if she were white.
If you show your sincere interest in a BW she may surprise you. She may just say, “Yes!”
LikeLike
Tim,
If you think a woman is beautiful – tell her! Sometimes women act “b#@chy” as a defense. Once you get past these initial issues you may find that she is not only a beautiful woman, but a delicious black woman as well. Approach her – you must.
LikeLike
I would love to date a black man, but as it goes they are mostly in prison, poorly educated or with white women. I live in WA and the state is 80% white.
Most of the white men I come across only want to date a black woman for the Jungle Fever experience. They aren’t serious, just want to have sex with a sista because they are curious.
One white guy asked me, “is it true black women are really wild in bed”. I told him I didn’t know because I’d never had sex with one. I’m always skeptical of white men and their intentions. I find them staring at me all the time, but I don’t encourage them. If they want to date me, they’d have to show me they’re serious or I won’t waste my time being a white man’s fantasy f**k.
LikeLike
I used to run into that when I was younger. At 47 most WM in my age group are more self-assured. They are usually divorce and just looking for someone to spend the second half of their lives.
I used to say, “I am no one’s test kit!” You can tell the WM who want to make broad assumptions about BW from one experience. Trust you judgment. Nice guys show themselves. Scum is easily washed away.
LikeLike
Janet and Luna,
I totally agree with your mindset that if a WM/NON-BM is truly interested in a relationship with a BW, he should approach her in a respectful manner, not like she’s a prostitute.
LikeLike
You know, I have got to say that I just happened upon this blog and this is a really, REALLY interesting subject! This is something that’s never really talked about that I’ve always wondered about. I am a brown-skinned BW, tall, hw proportionate, considered “thick” by both black and white men because of large breasts and somewhat big butt. I have always attracted men of all races, but I have noticed some differences in the type of man that I’m more likely to attract depending on how my style changes. For instance, when my hair is long and curly and my skin has gotten a shade or two lighter from the winter weather, mainly black me and hispanic men approach me. White men smile, but don’t really say much. BUT, once when my hair was completely natural and in a small afro, black men looked at me as if I had stabbed them in the chest with a dagger, lol. The main thing I would hear was, ” Wow. What happened to your hair,” which was always accompanied by the same jaw on the ground, wide-eyed “you looked really jacked up” kind of look. Or there was the “enlightened” black man with the beautiful locs in his hair who was proud of his heritage who would greet me with the starry-eyed respectful, “Hello my sista” or “Hello my queen, ” but that wasn’t very often unfortunately. The WHITE men, however, really seemed to admire my look. Once at a gas station, I was standing at line and caught a really good-looking white guy staring at me. And even when I gave him the “what the hell are you staring at” look, lol, he just smiled and continued to stare. I was starting to feel really uncomfortable because I’d already gotten more than my share of scrutiny over my new ‘do,’ but he caught me at the door, held the door open and said with the most admiringly sweet smile, ” I apologize for staring, but I just had to tell you that you are an absolutely beautfiful woman!” In that one moment I felt so flattered that a white man could acknowledge my natural beauty, but at the same time, hurt and disheartened that black men could see the same thing that he saw. I also have a cousin who is very dark-skinned, wears no makeup, and has her hair in a very natural afro who is married to white guy. So that definitely seems to be standard that white men seem to be more attracted to in an “I’d date you” kind of way to black women who are completely natural….very, very interesting!
LikeLike
Hi. I’m black and my white boyfriend says you’re a bit off target. He, for one, wishes I had more of an ass, not less. He’s constantly telling me to PUT ON SOME WEIGHT! I cannot take his verbal ‘buse much longer! HELP MEEEEEEE
———————————-
No, seriously. My bf doesn’t really fit your descriptions of white men in America at all. Granted, I am thin, and I do act in a way that some would not “not black enough” or whatever, but…as he puts it, he’s dated some “ghetto bitches.” Some bitches that could probably beat you up.
🙂
LikeLike
I’m sorry about that last comment…my boyfriend told me to put it. He’s crazy.
I did like your post.
LikeLike
I see a lot of deferent things here so I would like to chime in. As for body type I real dont care I do like a BW that is not skin and bones come on what is wrong with you? that is just as unheathy and supper fat. Skin color has very little to do with anything(for me at least) Dark/light to me it is all the same. What matters is do you click? can you talk as I feel the if you can’t tell each other whats wrong you have already damned the relationship. I myself dont want a BW that looks like she just got done shooting a rap vid. If anything I would think that most BW would take those girls as a slight against themselves. I feel that most BW are not like what I see in those vids. Come on not all are what I would call “slutty”. We have to think that a lot of WM may not be around BW so all they know is what they see on any crap show you see on mtv or others, That hurts all of us no matter what color you are. My current lady is dark skined and man I love it. But then I love HER not caring what color she is, after aa isnt that what matters most? Because when all is said and done it is ” us against the world” As for those WM that would never be with a BW. all I can say is “GOD dont make mistakes”
LikeLike
Bill said,
If anything I would think that most BW would take those girls as a slight against themselves. I feel that most BW are not like what I see in those vids. Come on not all are what I would call “slutty”. We have to think that a lot of WM may not be around BW so all they know is what they see on any crap show you see on mtv or others, That hurts all of us no matter what color you are.
laromana said,
We definitely need MORE WM/NON-BM who respect BW and are in relationships with them to express the kind of sentiment that Bill has in his comments.
If ALL WM/NON-BM who care about BW joined together with them in opposing ANTI-BW LIES, MYTHS, AND STEREOTYPES, it would help DESTROY the images that lead to negative attitudes/treatment of BW.
LikeLike
Hey great blog here. Just came across it tonight.
I’m a white American male who finds black women very attractive. I personally prefer medium to light skin tone black women. Everyone has their preferences. Like when I date a white woman, if the option was available, I prefer a brunette over a blonde any day.
I think the reason you may not see more while male with black women couples (in America that is) is because of stigma. Lots of racial baggage that is a major turnoff for many. Also, when white men date or marry out, they go for Asian and Hispanic women a majority of the time. Hence, which is why you don’t see more WM/BW couples.
And some white men and black women don’t know if the other would date out, pertaining to being interested in one another. It’s kind of like a deadlocked situation, until someone grows the balls (men I would hope) and break through that brick wall and make it happen, the interests will remain sealed.
Peace
LikeLike
I know many WM/BW couples, and am myself a BW married to a WM. I have dated WM in the past, and have been told that while WM do not generally “go for” BW, it is not because of a lack of desire. From what I have been told, WM hesitate to include BW in their dating/marrying pool due to posible social repercussions or fear of how their family will react. In addition, although my own husband denies it, I suspect that some WM may have an issue with the possibility of having Black children even though they love the black woman.
However, I think that another major barrier to WM and BW forming romantic relationships is society always telling BW that WM do not want them and do not find them attractive. On the other side, when WM are constantly bombarded with this message that WM don’t like BW,I believe they actually feel embarrassed and conflicted about being attracted to women who apparently have no value. It’s like,society is asking them “can’t you do better than a BW”, and then they go through life with that sort of secret desire or sense of regret for not going with their heart. The fact of the matter is that WM find BW as attractive as they find any other group of women. That is not to say that all white men are attracted to all black women, but by the same token all white men are not attratced to all white women either. In other words, WM are just as attracted to BW as BM are to WW. It’s just that BM are more free to go after WW because there is less social stigma, their black familes are more open to white people, and it’s rare that a black man has lost a job or social staus because he was married to a WW.
And for a BW, when WM actually do have the confidence to approach, she often misses the signals because she cannot fathom that a WM is actually hitting on her because we have been told that we are not as attractive as other groups of women–much less to a WM. So a WM has to be really overt in his romantic overtures to a BW–and in my experience WM are just not that overt–at least with BW. Maybe because they fear rejection as they have often heard that BW are not interested in WM, as they supposedly do not possess the qualities associated with BM–physical attractiveness, strength, toughness and sexual prowess. That’ just not true. BW are very much attracted to WM.
By the way, I am a black woman married to a white man. I am 5’3 and weigh about 170 lbs. I have a skin tone between Garcelle and Gabrielle. I have a large behind and big breasts. I am an attorney, and I have always worn my hair in a variety of styles. When my husband met me I was in the courtroom, and had a straight bob. By the time we had our first date, I had a long weave that went to my butt. Then I had a curly look and then braids–which he loved the most and begs me to get in the future. Finally, although I am an “educated” woman, I am by no means “white-acting”. He actually loves it when I go into that sort of sassy mode that is sometimes associated with black women. But at the same time, I had one white boyfriend that hated braids and the whole “sister girl” attitude. Point being that WM like BW in general, but most WM are not attracted to a certain type. After all, NY is not the world…I live in Atlanta.
LikeLike
LOL. You are right about NY. That is why I said that, because I understood there might be differences by region or country.
LikeLike
I have been reading the many comments and I want to state a few things.
@Black Persia.
You make some good points……but….the following comment has me worried:
” Maybe because they fear rejection as they have often heard that BW are not interested in WM, as they supposedly do not possess the qualities associated with BM–physical attractiveness, strength, toughness and sexual prowess. That’ just not true. BW are very much attracted to WM.”
Not trying to be rude, as I am sure you mean well, but, with the words “physical, attractiveness, strength, toughness and sexual prowess: only one image came to mind:
-stud
That so many Black men have bought into the stereotype that all Black men are born athletes/sex machines is to me the worst stereotype ever thrown upon Black men, and that that stereotype has taken on mythic proportions to where that is what so many non-Black men think of Black men.
Not saying that you are stating that, but, the myth of the over-sexed Black man is just that—a myth. Black men are no more better in bed that any other race of men. Any White man who believes such lies has some serious issues that he needs to deal with pronto.
But, that Black men have been saddled with the big-no-stop-sex-machine myth for so many centuries, has made them into an image of walking life-support-systems-for-a-penis.
And I say to men of other races, especially White men, Black men are more than a penis attached to a body.
For a White man to worry about what a Black man is or isn’t doing says much about that White man. The said White man can only tackle what he can handle in his life and not worry about how he will measure up to any other man—even if that is a Black man.
As for strength, sexual prowess, etc.—those are things found in many men of other races. But, the old stereotype that all Black men have huge penises says not only a lack of regard for Black men—it says also a lack of regard towards Black women.
For if a Black man is supposed to have a huge penis, then does it not follow that a Black woman has a huge vagina to accommodate the supposed huge penis of a Black man?
Not stating that you said this, but, when I read the words you used to describe what some White men may think of Black men, then and there is a stereotype that maligns so many Black men to this day.
As for sexual “prowess”.
Depends how how the supposed man (regardless of race/ethnicity) “listens” to the woman in his life.
A huge penis never kept a woman in a man’s life.
A tenderness and consideration for her feelings, desires, wants, and needs is what often keeps a woman.
“From what I have been told, WM hesitate to include BW in their dating/marrying pool due to posible social repercussions or fear of how their family will react. In addition, although my own husband denies it, I suspect that some WM may have an issue with the possibility of having Black children even though they love the black woman.”
Agreed.
“It’s like,society is asking them “can’t you do better than a BW”, and then they go through life with that sort of secret desire or sense of regret for not going with their heart. The fact of the matter is that WM find BW as attractive as they find any other group of women.”
Agreed.
We will all regret not the many things we DID in life (God knows we all make mistakes), but, it will be the things we all DID NOT DO, that will cause many lamentations in our old age.
”
The following comment:
“It’s just that BM are more free to go after WW because there is less social stigma, their black familes are more open to white people, and it’s rare that a black man has lost a job or social staus because he was married to a WW.”
I will agree with you that White men fear losing STATUS more than anything. The loss of a job would be harder because there would have to be evidence that the man was not doing his job and was in a position to be fired/terminated. Does not mean that back-stabbing haters cannot work to get that man fired—-but, loss of status—-yes, that is one major reason that can keep White men from marrying a Black woman.
Too many White men worry about what family/friends/neighbors will think—-instead of just getting on with the business of life—-getting a good woman into your life, no matter what race she comes in.
Then again, that type of mentality is found more in American White men than in say, Scandinavian men.
As for Black families “being more open to white”…..
I would disagree.
There are some Black families who do not wish to see their children married to a White person/or person of another race. Not all Black people are publicly vocal about their displeasure in having a son/daughter marry a white.
Does not make the said Black family members monsters, but, some family members (Black father, Black mother), do not want to see their child married to a White person. (Just stating what I have seen and heard.)
But, on the other hand, most Black people are more open-minded IF the intended White prospective future son/daughter-n-law is going to be just a good spouse to their adult child.
Rare, and practically unheard of is the Black parent who disowns or cuts off all ties to their Black adult child.
As for the comparison to BM/WW and WM/BW—the historical components of both types of relationships differ tremendously.
Yes, through the centuries, many White men have been “overt” with BW, when they could play run-and-go-hide-and-seek-and-find-the-salami”—-but, when it came to publicly professing love and respect for a Black woman, then the White men (the majority of them) were no where to be found.
Makes me wonder where did all of that “overtness” dissipate to in the 21St Century?
Then again, even in 2009, with all the disinformation floating around about both groups (WM & BW), it is no surprise that both groups walk around in tip-toe fear and trepidation with each other.
I will agree with you that many Black women are attracted to White men. They see handsome White men, interesting White men, responsible White men, many of whom they would love to spend their lives with.
BW just want a good man in their lives.
@Azrazyel.
“It’s kind of like a deadlocked situation, until someone grows the balls (men I would hope) and break through that brick wall and make it happen, the interests will remain sealed.”
Most true.
Would be nice if AMERICAN White men can grow some balls and not worry about what others think.
Men are the chasers, not women, and if that is archaic thinking, then so be it.
A woman knows when a man is interested in her.
And White have no one who is stopping them from approaching a Black woman.
Except THEMSELVES.
LikeLike
@ Ann for the most part, I agree with what you have said. It also made me think of something: it seems that a lot of effort being put into keeping WM and BW apart, meanwhile BM and WW just keep on going about their lives, dating and marrying. Seems that it is usually the WM ans BW who are most often made to feel ashamed or guilty on IR pairings
LikeLike
I will further elaborate on my first post.
Many white guys I’ve talked to (again, only the ones I have talked to, not all white men) actually think just about all black women are 1. Loud 2. Obnoxious 3. Ghetto 4. Annoying
It may be that perception only in America, I would suggest that media esp. like crap….er rap videos play a major role in that. I do agree with it.
I’m sure some white men may think if black women cleaned their images up, it may help there cause. Personally, I don’t get it. Every race has bad apples, regardless.
Many I would assume feel they don’t fit in with their personalities, i.e. back to the ghetto assumption. Status is a MAJOR issue with most white men, therefore diluting any interest furthermore.
Of course you have many white men who are racist/bigots, not all will say anything directly to you.
Some find black women unattractive period.
Others may be interested, but don’t want to face any consequences/ridicule from friends/family/relatives.
It’s easy to say….”Oh don’t listen to what others say.” I myself am a family oriented guy, it is a must to get along with the family esp. the Mother and Father.
It would almost be an impossible task for it to work without family support.
If you think it’s hard enough trying to carry an IR relationship at times, and then having no support from at least the family, whilst hearing remarks/whispers/rumors/gossip, I don’t see a healthy relationship stemming from that into the foreseeable future, and most likely will fail.
Maybe some white men have been in those situations before, and then to realize that the hassle isn’t for them.
Others may already see it beforehand, which totally turns them away.
Everyone wants to be in a relationship where everything is in harmony. Of course not one is built on perfection, many white men just may be turned off from the ‘perceptions’ or ‘stereotypes’ of black women.
You can give credit to the media for that.
I am interested in black women. I have never dated a black woman, but I don’t let the ‘assumptions’ steer me away from my inner feelings and focus of finding a wonderful black woman someday.
These are just my thoughts. Some I believe to be true, others just pure speculation. Again, everyone has their reason for dating or not dating out.
I just try and inject some opinions in this blog in hopes of finding answers for myself as well.
Peace
LikeLike
The last few commenter’s have been informative, but about White men losing status, I disagree for the simple fact that they are at the top of the racial pyramid that we have the misfortune to navigate in this society. White men, for the most part, being as this is a patriarchal society, make the rules and by de facto run most of our world, therefore they are in a unique position to change the rules if they wanted to because like everything else, they have the political and cultural currency to dictate what is acceptable in society just by their actions alone. And since White men have most of the power to change things, which is why if racism is ever to be tackled honestly and resolutely it would be White men who should be willing enough to humanize their fear and or disgust of Black people and especially Black women.
Thus the supposed hand ringing and fear of ridicule and public censure and ostraizartion from their own is largely groundless, especially when you have examples such as Ronald Betts a multi-millionaire who married an obviously Black woman http://broadwayworld.com/people/?personid=12078 who has obviously mixed children. This man comes from old money and even supported Bush quite handsomely, which would make it seem all the more unlikely that he could even envision marrying a Black woman but he didn’t even have to risk anything since he can do whatever he wanted to. Peter Norton a self-made multi-millionaire several times over has married 2 obviously black women (his current wife is Gwen Adams http://www.newyorksocialdiary.com/partypictures/2006/11_01_06/images/ps1/Gwen-Adams-and-Peter-Norton.jpg) and they certainly wouldn’t be categorized as Tyra Banks or Beyonce or Alicia Keyes doubles. These two examples of exceptional white men who could have easily gone the whole kewpie blonde blue eyed trophy or Latina, Asian wife like so many do, consciously chose Black women and were obviously not concerned about what society, their family or friends thought because they are at the top and they make the rules. Moreover, it should be noted that White men have a bevy of options for the simple fact that they are the default choice among non-white women (even when you factor in the point that they are the majority) when it comes to interracial pairings, which once again illustrates that they are the top of the racial pyramid and have the ability and the power to exercise their choice, regardless of public censure.
So, the question becomes, why don’t most see past he ugly stereotypes of black women and be willing to engage Black women as normal human beings worthy of the same consideration that they easily give to Becky, Kim, or Maria? It is because they simply have no willingness or desire to do so. It’s far too comfortable having their pick of other women that they don’t deem are beneath them—and this attitude I have found cuts across socio-economic lines.
LikeLike
Very well said Mayhue.
LikeLike
@Black Persia:
“it seems that a lot of effort being put into keeping WM and BW apart, meanwhile BM and WW just keep on going about their lives, dating and marrying. Seems that it is usually the WM ans BW who are most often made to feel ashamed or guilty on IR pairings.”
Agree.
The WM/BW pairing has been fought against more than many people realize.
Has been for the last four and a half centuries.
@Azrazyel:
“I’m sure some white men may think if black women cleaned their images up, it may help there cause.”
And what would those images that Black women should clean up———————————especially if those Black women are not “Ghetto/loud/annoying”?
“It may be that perception only in America, I would suggest that media esp. like crap….er rap videos play a major role in that. I do agree with it.”
Yes…media whores such as Snoopy Dog and Fitty Cent step acoss the backs of Black women to prostitute themselves for money. Even if it means making “music” videos to get rich quick or die trying.
But………..
………in order to have a whore (Snoopy & Fitty), you have to have a pimp, and the White men who control the media are the pimps who package, sell, and disseminate the racist/sexist images of Black women around the world.
The White men who own and control the filth images of Black women call the shots. The White men who produce rap crap that degrades Black women are in no hurry to sell any kind of positive image of Black women.
Also, before Black rappers like Dog and Cent started calling Black women “b” and “h” words, White men already had that down pat when they have been calling Black women nigger bitches for centuries.
So, rap crap videos were not the first b and h words used against Black women. No, they learned it from the master himself. (Kinda like trying to dismantle Massa’s house with his own tools. Never will work.) Now, with the media and Internet, hatred of Black women can be sent all around the globe to millions of people, while the media owner pimps (White men) get rich all the way to the bank.
White men control the media/record studios.
Don’t see any of them in any hurry to clean up their act.
@Mayhue:
“White men, for the most part, being as this is a patriarchal society, make the rules and by de facto run most of our world, therefore they are in a unique position to change the rules if they wanted to because like everything else, they have the political and cultural currency to dictate what is acceptable in society just by their actions alone. And since White men have most of the power to change things, which is why if racism is ever to be tackled honestly and resolutely it would be White men who should be willing enough to humanize their fear and or disgust of Black people and especially Black women.”
Well put.
White men have fought against and vilified Black women for so long that they fear BLACK WOMEN more than they do Black men. Any one who knows the history of Black people in this country would know that from how White men have savagely treated Black women.
That fear and loathing of Black women is still with us.
For White men to grow backbones in their response/treatment/interactions with Black women to happen would be a sign that White men (in America) have decided to change the social/racial heirarchy in this country.
But, as you state, they are not about to do that anytime soon.
Maybe in 10,000 to 15,000 years.
But, not in this lifetime.
“It is because they simply have no willingness or desire to do so. It’s far too comfortable having their pick of other women that they don’t deem are beneath them—and this attitude I have found cuts across socio-economic lines.”
Well said.
Therefore, why stop the denigration of a race of women that the men of your race have been fighting against for centuries.
Might as well keep on doing the same ‘ol, same ‘ol.
Staying atop that pyramid takes a lot of work to maintain it.
Especially if it means adding some humanity in how you treat a race of women who have survived all the numerous types of abominations that White men have thrown (and still do) towards Black women.
LikeLike
The last few commenter’s have been informative, but about White men losing status, I disagree for the simple fact that they are at the top of the racial pyramid that we have the misfortune to navigate in this society. White men, for the most part, being as this is a patriarchal society, make the rules and by de facto run most of our world, therefore they are in a unique position to change the rules if they wanted to because like everything else, they have the political and cultural currency to dictate what is acceptable in society just by their actions alone.
I disagree with this because White men don’t make the rules, it is only a very specific group of White men who have a say on how our world is run. The vast majority of White men are schlubs that drive buses or stock shelves or shuffle papers just trying to survive like everyone else. Priviledge does not equal control. They are only as priviledged as the ruling elite allows them.
Therefore, why stop the denigration of a race of women that the men of your race have been fighting against for centuries.
And I disagree with this because White men have fought nearly everyone for the past 500 years and that does not stop him from marrying those other races of women. Commodore Perry, Pearl Harbor, dropping a couple of A-bombs, and competition in the auto industry has not stopped White men from seeking Japanese brides and vice versa.
LikeLike
Thank you for publishing this. Your observations are right.But i think we have to hit the point straight.. A white man can date any white woman from Amrica or Europe cos their beauty ideology is the same. Most black women without typical African facial feature are bi or multiracial black women. She must not be light skinned to be bi or multi racial. I assume that being 100% black ist not acceptable. There is this term “looking too African” but i have never heard “looking to european” A bi or multiracial black woman is considered prettier than a 100% black woman. And there is nothing like multi racial white person. We need to redefine our beauty ideology a mixed race black women can be considered prettier than 100% black women we need to show some racial pride
LikeLike
The Golden Rule is that: he who has the gold makes the rules. However, it is NOT every white man who has the gold, and therefore is not in a position to make the rules. As Truth B. Told has pointed out, the average white guy is in no position to “change things”, and a few examples of rich white men they have never even seen or heard of is not going to convince them that it is OK to get with a sistah on any level. Anyway, the media is not going to show a wealthy white man loving a BW–hell they don’t even show us the wealthy BM that have black wives and girlfreinds. “They” would have us thinking that all BM who have attained a certain socioeconomic status , and thus a choice, will choose a non-BW every time. But the actual fact is that for every Kobe Bryant, there are 10 athletes and entertainers with BW. But I guess that’s just not sexy enough to put out there. Getting back to my point, when you have millions upon millions of dollars, you most certainly CAN do what you want. But the average white guy is just trying to maintain his position within his community and family, and not rock the boat. So, Multi-millionaires doing what they want and marrying BW is not a realistic example to use. Rich folks can get away with stuff that others can’t.
I just do not believe that white men, or other men for that matter, simply do not like black women, and have no desire to engage in some level of romantic relationship. I have just heard the opposite too much to think otherwise. I have had an older, now wealthy, white gentleman lamenting to me about how he missed his opportinity with a black woman in his youth–still obviously hurt. He just felt that at the time, as the average white guy that he was–he just could not do it. I had a white guy cry and tell me that he looooved me, but that he just could not lose his family. Guess he did not love me enough, but right today he is married to a white woman, and cannot stop dialing my number. To boot, he said that as a young man, his father told him that he had been in love with a black woman. That same man told me that “all” white men “like” black women. My husband says the same thing–that generally speaking, WM are attracted to BW, but can’t “risk” actually being with a BW. Now, I have to admit that he also said that many WM are afraid that BW are going to “go off” if approached by a WM–i’m guessing because of the image the media has put out there about us. But as we all know, BW can be some of the sweetest and most supportive women in the world. Of course, I don’t know what “like” means. Does it mean sex, one-night stand, talk to , be friendswith, date, impregnate, marry? Different for each person, I guess.
My husband’s best friend wanted very badly to be with a black girlfriend he had, but broke up with her because he felt his family would not accept her. He still speaks of her to this day. My own husband said he had to think long and hard about the possibility that if he married me, he might lose his family–but of course he had the balls and followed his heart. I am certainly not saying that all WM secretly want as BW, but what I am saying is that the attraction is there, and we certainly don’t “disgust” them as others would have us think. We are NOT disgusting. We do NOT repulse men. Society wants BW to feel unwanted, unloveable, and unattractive. Don’t buy it. And as for white men having no problem marrying others–I believe that is is simply because it is more accepted, because it is not necessarily “otherness” that bothers folks, but “blackness”, and not just talking about the actual skin color. Because white folks don’t really differentiate from chocolate and high yellow like black folk. They just know you are black.
LikeLike
@Truth Be Told:
“Privilege does not equal control.”
I disagree.
White privilege has nothing to do with control.
White skin privilege gives millions of White people the benefit of a doubt. White skin privilege gives White people higher racial status in America. A White man does not have to be president of America, run a multi-national corporation or be a millionaire to be given respect that is often not accorded many Black people, on a daily basis.
White skin privilege does not cause racial profiling of White people; being followed around stores by store security; being pulled over for Driving While White.
White skin privilege does not equate with the sexist racist stereotypes that still hound Black women.
White people have never been considered the anti-neighbor, the anti-citizen, when after all that your people (Black Americans) have done for and contributed to America is so derisively castigated and demeaned.
Many people equate the word “privilege” with power, elitism (remember the Obamas and Yale, and “elitism”? (:
Privilege comes in many forms, many types, and arises in many situations.
Only some people (Whites) have more privilege than others (Blacks).
“They are only as privileged as the ruling elite allows them.”
Yes and no.
They are only as privileged as the ruling class Whites will allow them, but, as history has shown, it was the poor, destitute Whites who destroyed many Blacks in lynch mobs. No need to have rich Whites join in the carnage (although some did.) Poor Whites, like today, still oftentimes vote against their best interests due to race hatred, and in their trying to align themselves——-politically, socially, and mentally——with the ruling class that is holding everyone down———-they many times slit their own throats right along with those of the Black people who often are in the same boat as poor Whites.
So, no.
Privileges has its benefits, and for ALL Whites, on various levels, privileges keep them at the top of the racial ladder, and Blacks at the bottom of the racial ladder.
“And I disagree with this because White men have fought nearly everyone for the past 500 years and that does not stop him from marrying those other races of women.”
Okay.
So, what is stopping them from marrying Black women?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
@Black Persia:
“The Golden Rule is that: he who has the gold makes the rules. However, it is NOT every white man who has the gold, and therefore is not in a position to make the rules.”
Yes, those who have all the gold can make the rules; but, neither does that mean that one has to slavishly follow them.
Whites have followed the *rulers* even when they knew in their hearts that the leaders/elected officials/rulers were doing wrong and enacting unjust laws.
People have a choice.
It is called free will.
Yes, Whites can face hate from their own families. That is a fact of life. But, life is never all despondent, nor all peaches-and-cream. One either can handle what life throws them, or buckle under. Many Black women are not asking for Prometheus-bound White men to come into their lives; just men who will be men. We cannot change the laws against running stop signs, speeding, and hitting pedestrians, but, on a daily basis, we call all input some change that makes things better for us all.
“As Truth B. Told has pointed out, the average white guy is in no position to “change things”
I disagree.
They can change many things………………
…………….starting with themselves.
If the many Black people who fought against slavery and segregation were to subscribe to such beliefs, then Black Americans would still be living in the perverted racial abominations that Whites relegated them to. If many Blacks felt that “Well, there is nothing we can do to change things,” life for Black Americans today would still be the hell it was for my parents, grandparents. etc.
There is much White men can do to change the world around them starting with obliterating the asinine notion that all Black women as you state “would go off on them” if they approached a Black woman. If a man speaks intelligently and respectfully to me, I have no problem with that. Now, if a White man wants to believe in stereotypical lies about Black women, then that says much about HIM, not about HER.
“Anyway, the media is not going to show a wealthy white man loving a BW–hell they don’t even show us the wealthy BM that have black wives and girlfreinds. “They” would have us thinking that all BM who have attained a certain socioeconomic status , and thus a choice, will choose a non-BW every time.”
Of course not.
The vilification of Black women reigns supreme in dear old America. For every one (White women) who is up in the hierarchy in many men’s eyes, there must be some one (Black women) who must be pushed to the margins as society’s scapegoat and pilloried whipping girl.
No.
White-run society will not show a Peter Norton, a George Lucas, or any other high-profile White man with a Black woman. That would be akin to lauding the beauty and loveliness of so many Black women.
As for White men following the lead of rich, alpha White males, does not matter what the rich males do. Since so many White males are afraid to break free from family/friends/neighbors positions-viewpoints, their not going to do much in the way for themselves anyhow, at least where Black women are concerned.
“Getting back to my point, when you have millions upon millions of dollars, you most certainly CAN do what you want. But the average white guy is just trying to maintain his position within his community and family, and not rock the boat.”
Well, that boat is sinking.
Even a rat knows to desert a sinking ship and not go down with it.
All the snotting and crying years later that many White men do about the lost-love of a Black woman, will not bring back what could have been.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
@Azrazyel:
“It’s easy to say….”Oh don’t listen to what others say.” I myself am a family oriented guy, it is a must to get along with the family esp. the Mother and Father.”
Even if those parents are wrong? Even if it means the destruction of what YOU want, not what they want?
“It would almost be an impossible task for it to work without family support.”
It can be impossible at times; at others it cannot. Depends on what you are willing to sacrifice for what you want out of life to make you happy. If a White man sees and wants a Black woman who is good for him, then must he take the cowardly way out and bow to family pressure, only to marry a White woman just because that is what his family wants?
That is not what I would want.
Yes, I would want my Mother to like and accept my non-Black spouse, but, she is not whom I will be marrying. She is not whom I will be living with. She is not whom I will cry to years later because I did not follow my heart and my dream to be with the man who loved me right then and there.
Comes a time when we all have to make a stand.
And accept the consequences that go with making decisions that adults make, and put away childish fears of worrying about what everyone else does or does not like.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Back @ Black Persia:
“We are NOT disgusting.”
Yes, we beautiful and loving women who have survived so much.
“I believe that is is simply because it is more accepted, because it is not necessarily “otherness” that bothers folks, but “blackness”
Yes.
It is the demonification of “blackness” and the adoration of “whiteness” and everything that approaches it, that is worshiped in this country and this world.
LikeLike
“we certainly don’t “disgust” them as others would have us think.. And as for white men having no problem marrying others–I believe that is is simply because it is more accepted, because it is not necessarily “otherness” that bothers folks, but “blackness”, and not just talking about the actual skin color.”
Spot on!
And I’m surprised at all of the “white men don’t find black women attractive” comments. I just haven’t seen that IRL. Must be a regional thing. I’ve always lived in places where blacks are a small minority so black women tend to get MORE attention from ALL men, not less; we just stand out more. Men like novelty.
Walking around Europe I was practically mobbed (to the point that it was frightening) every where I went. American WM are just weird, I guess. Although they at least peek. 😉
LikeLike
@Black and German –
“Mobbed” lol. ok
LikeLike
Thank you Ann for pointing out the obvious regarding how White privilege– the privilege of assumption that many Whites have regardless of how rich or poor they are trumps the supposed idea that regular average Joe White Men are simple pawns with no power, whereas rich white men are orchestrating their whole lives. If the Average Joe didn’t have any power, then Joe the Plumber and Sarah Palin would never have been given a platform in which to pontificate on why the average White life is in jeopardy of being overrun by non-White masses. Do you think Pat Bucanhan Rush Limbaugh, Michael Savage, and Glenn Beck, pretty average guys with average intelligence—espousing various forms of racist hate for Black people, would be given a legitimate media platform to make millions if they were anything other than White men? Jim the Cop-Average Joe Crowley was certainly given the benefit of the doubt by many White people, even after it was uncovered that his police report and the 911 transcript showed obvious lies by Average Joe Crowley. He seemed to wield a considerable amount of power for such an average schlep. And that is what privilege is and why White men can be rich poor, average, lazy, but they are always given the benefit of the doubt—they are nurtured, cared for because they, it is assumed they always have potential for greatness and thus—they continue to make the rules. Lastly, we live in a democratic society in which we can elect people that represent us, with the exception of some redlined districts, they appear to be a considerable of White people that vote for White people that they believe champion their interests. If the average white joe was really that powerless then why do avowed racist like Helms, Trent Lott, and others continually get elected.
In addition, the reason why I illustrated examples such as Roland Betts and Peter Norton is that they met their wives when they were not powerful. Betts may have been wealthy but was teaching in a low income school in Harlem when he met his wife. She didn’t even know until later that he was rich and Peter Norton’s first wife was with him when he was just a programmer without any prospects and she was a girl from Watts. IN fact, they are unusual in that they still followed their own star regarding what they found attractive and stuck with it even when they amassed huge wealth and they certainly damned the consequences of what their families, friends or society thought about their choices. It doesn’t matter at the end of the day if they honestly find attractive in their secret heart of hearts, White men are in a position to do whatever they want and be damned the supposed artificial consequences that they have constructed to continue a racial hierarchy, but as I noted before they have no desire to change the status quo.
The meme that Black women are unlovable, disgusting and unattractive started from somewhere and it certainly didn’t start in the Black community (even when you factor in virulent colorism within the Black community)—the blame should be placed on those who created this system in the first place—white men. It’s amazing to me that White women and Black men are the first to be blamed for White men’s lack of initiative in supposed IR’s without first acknowledging the fact that because we live in patriarchal society in which Men still make the rules and have been doing so for at least a millennia, that somehow they are exempt because there are anecdotal examples of a couple of weak willed white men who let the Black girl get away because of family or whatever superficial hang-up would result in them in losing face.
In the end White men just like most people—have a choice. They have remarkable free will and the ability to do whatever they want in this society. The racism of which they were the key architects, that we live with in America makes it impossible for most White men who supposedly have this burning interest or unrequited desire to do something about it. I still maintain that the inertia that is prevalent is a result of rules that they created and are petrified of dismantling since it continues and will continue to benefit them by virtue of them being white.
LikeLike
I fail to see the problem. People are attracted to whomever they are attracted to. If a white dude doesn’t like you, then forget ’em. Find someone else. Why on Earth does that matter (except to give you a conspiracy to gripe about)? How about a comparison of WM/BW relationships to thin man/large woman relationships? I think you’ll find that one statistically more overwhelming than your observations here. Or how about Asian man/BW? This is just silly.
LikeLike
They are only as privileged as the ruling class Whites will allow them, but, as history has shown, it was the poor, destitute Whites who destroyed many Blacks in lynch mobs.
Exactly and when the ruling elite passed Hate Crime Legislation and actually enforced the law, much of the violence stopped. A fine example of poor whites having as much “power” as the elite whites give them.
The ruling elite is good a playing the races off against each other. It helps to keep wages depressed (more competition for jobs = lower wages) and people divided on petty issues (rap music vs. country music) so they can’t focus on the larger fleecing that is going on.
joe the plumber – a total pawn used by the news media and especially Fox News to create a story
Sarah Palin – got attention because she was running for VP and she was for lack of a better term “entertaining”
Pat Bucanhan Rush Limbaugh, Michael Savage, and Glenn Beck – Though being white has help their careers, these guys can attract an audience, which counts for something. Many other whites have failed to attract an audience and their skin doesn’t save them.
Average Joe Crowley – If he had actual power, the charges against Dr. Gates wouldn’t have had to be dropped nor would he need to tamper with anything. His priviledge that comes with his skin color and his job gives him the benefit of the doubt.
Lastly, we live in a democratic society in which we can elect people that represent us, with the exception of some redlined districts, they appear to be a considerable of White people that vote for White people that they believe champion their interests. If the average white joe was really that powerless then why do avowed racist like Helms, Trent Lott, and others continually get elected.
The average white joe has one vote just like everyone else. If the average white joe truly had power, do you think we would have a Biracial man as president?
LikeLike
@Ann:
You don’t have to scorn me for having my opinions. I am a white man who has NEVER dated a black woman. I fear all these things I have mentioned before. I want to learn from others without feeling like the words are being shoved down my throat.
I respect your opinions just like I would hope you would respect mine. I am 28 years old, I don’t need someone to teach me how to date another race.
I ask these questions and give my opinions/assumptions in hopes of seeking knowledge from people who have done it before. I am willing to learn from people about the major differences and also experiences of IR dating compared to dating within ones own.
I already know the general things of IR dating. I want to hear from experiences and hardships of what exactly to expect.
And yes, it IS a must that I MUST get along with the family, esp. Mom and Dad. I am that way individually, just like it is when I date a white woman. If I can’t get along, it’s not for me. No exceptions.
You can hate me for my opinions, I am what I am and I will not change for anyone.
Peace
LikeLike
blackpersia, Mayhue,Nubiah and Ann,
Thanks for eloquently clarifying how ANTI-BW COWARDICE and ANTI-BW RACISIM greatly influence how American WM relate to BW and whether or not they choose to have relationships with them. Thanks, too for offerring possible solutions to the problems caused by ANTI-BW COWARDICE/RACISM.
EXAMPLES OF ANTI-BW COWARDICE:
blackpersia said,
– From what I have been told, WM hesitate to include BW in their dating/marrying pool due to posible social repercussions or fear of how their family will react. In addition, although my own husband denies it, I suspect that some WM may have an issue with the possibility of having Black children even though they love the black woman.
-I have had an older, now wealthy, white gentleman lamenting to me about how he missed his opportinity with a black woman in his youth–still obviously hurt. He just felt that at the time, as the average white guy that he was–he just could not do it. I had a white guy cry and tell me that he looooved me, but that he just could not lose his family. Guess he did not love me enough, but right today he is married to a white woman, and cannot stop dialing my number. To boot, he said that as a young man, his father told him that he had been in love with a black woman. That same man told me that “all” white men “like” black women. My husband says the same thing–that generally speaking, WM are attracted to BW, but can’t “risk” actually being with a BW. Now, I have to admit that he also said that many WM are afraid that BW are going to “go off” if approached by a WM–i’m guessing because of the image the media has put out there about us.
My husband’s best friend wanted very badly to be with a black girlfriend he had, but broke up with her because he felt his family would not accept her. He still speaks of her to this day.
Ann said,
It’s amazing to me that White women and Black men are the first to be blamed for White men’s lack of initiative in supposed IR’s without first acknowledging the fact that because we live in patriarchal society in which Men still make the rules and have been doing so for at least a millennia, that somehow they are exempt because there are anecdotal examples of a couple of weak willed white men who let the Black girl get away because of family or whatever superficial hang-up would result in them in losing face.
laromana said,
I have a hard time empathizing with past or present ANTI-BW COWARDS in American society who CHOOSE to NOT be true to themselves by REJECTING the BW they CLAIM to love because they FEAR what friends/family might say/think about it. If ALL of the WM in America who are attracted to BW and want to marry them CHOSE to REJECT ANTI-BW COWARDICE, the stigma against WM/BW IRR’s could be DESTROYED and these relationships could be mainstreamed.
EXAMPLES OF ANTI-BW RACISM:
blackpersia said,
-“We are NOT disgusting.”
Yes, we beautiful and loving women who have survived so much.
“I believe that is is simply because it is more accepted, because it is not necessarily “otherness” that bothers folks, but “blackness”
Yes.
It is the demonification of “blackness” and the adoration of “whiteness” and everything that approaches it, that is worshiped in this country and this world.
Mayhue said,
-So, the question becomes, why don’t most see past he ugly stereotypes of black women and be willing to engage Black women as normal human beings worthy of the same consideration that they easily give to Becky, Kim, or Maria? It is because they simply have no willingness or desire to do so. It’s far too comfortable having their pick of other women that they don’t deem are beneath them—and this attitude I have found cuts across socio-economic lines.
Ann said,
-“And I disagree with this because White men have fought nearly everyone for the past 500 years and that does not stop him from marrying those other races of women.”
Okay.
So, what is stopping them from marrying Black women?
-The meme that Black women are unlovable, disgusting and unattractive started from somewhere and it certainly didn’t start in the Black community (even when you factor in virulent colorism within the Black community)—the blame should be placed on those who created this system in the first place—white men.
-All the snotting and crying years later that many White men do about the lost-love of a Black woman, will not bring back what could have been.
laromana says,
Clearly when MOST American WM have NO PROBLEM marrying ANY NON-BW but don’t marry BW, ANTI-BW RACISM has to be considered as the reason why.
EXAMPLES OF THE SOLUTION FOR ANTI-BW COWARDICE/RACISM
Nubiah said,
-About Europe( I lived in France, Italy, Switzerland and now in UK( international gal LOL), for what I have witnessed UK,France, Portugal and Germany BW date/marry white men (and other)in high number.
I know some find BW women more family oriented, hotter??? and exotic.
In EU people are more mixed, socially speaking. So that makes things easier.
Ann said,
-The reason why I illustrated examples such as Roland Betts and Peter Norton is that they met their wives when they were not powerful. Betts may have been wealthy but was teaching in a low income school in Harlem when he met his wife. She didn’t even know until later that he was rich and Peter Norton’s first wife was with him when he was just a programmer without any prospects and she was a girl from Watts. IN fact, they are unusual in that they still followed their own star regarding what they found attractive and stuck with it even when they amassed huge wealth and they certainly damned the consequences of what their families, friends or society thought about their choices. It doesn’t matter at the end of the day if they honestly find attractive in their secret heart of hearts, White men are in a position to do whatever they want and be damned the supposed artificial consequences that they have constructed to continue a racial hierarchy, but as I noted before they have no desire to change the status quo.
-There is much White men can do to change the world around them starting with obliterating the asinine notion that all Black women as you state “would go off on them” if they approached a Black woman. If a man speaks intelligently and respectfully to me, I have no problem with that. Now, if a White man wants to believe in stereotypical lies about Black women, then that says much about HIM, not about HER.
-In the end White men just like most people—have a choice. They have remarkable free will and the ability to do whatever they want in this society. The racism of which they were the key architects, that we live with in America makes it impossible for most White men who supposedly have this burning interest or unrequited desire to do something about it. I still maintain that the inertia that is prevalent is a result of rules that they created and are petrified of dismantling since it continues and will continue to benefit them by virtue of them being white.
LikeLike
I agree, great comments!
The my-family-will-kill-me excuse coming from a grown man is a particularly weak one. Are white men truly that cowardly? Somehow I doubt it. I think it is just a cover for their own racism.
The “too ugly” excuse and the “too ghetto” excuse are probably honest, but they mainly come from a racist way of looking at black women – through stereotypes and racialized ideas of beauty.
I also find it curious that other white people will say “what about the children?” – meaning the children will be, ew, black – but you almost never hear this from the white men themselves. Like blackpersia, I suspect many of them are not being honest.
LikeLike
I notice when Black men date interracial, some Black women often accuse them of “hating their mothers” or “self-hate”. Funny how it is the opposite when White men don’t want to date interracial they are accused of being “cowards” of their family’s opinion.
No one will credit the Black man for having the “courage” to stand up to his family or praise the White man for “loving the image of his mother.”
More self-serving hypocrisy.
LikeLike
Well, no. Being black and being white are not a mirror-image of each other, not in America.
1. Self-hatred based on race is way more common among blacks than whites. Blacks have to live under white racism and its messages. Very few whites live under black racism.
2. Due to the One Drop Rule, it takes less courage for black men because their children will be black no matter what. Not so for white men.
LikeLike
Did anyone think that the reason you are more likely to see darker black girls with natural hair dating white guys is not because that is what white guys prefer, but because those girls are more likely to be open to dating white guys than are girls who belong in the second group?
LikeLike
Good points, Abagond.
1. Cannot the same things (“self-hate” and “hate their father”) be said for Black women who are looking for White men?
2. Cannot the same thing be said for White women who have children with Black men? The implication would be that White women have more “courage” then White men to mate out with Blacks since there are far more WW/BM matings than there are WM/BW matings.
LikeLike
@Azrazyel:
“You don’t have to scorn me for having my opinions.”
I never scorned you. I spoke of White men in the general sense. When I stated “you” I meant in the plural/verbal semantic, not “you”/Azrazyel in the singular sense.
I can live with people’s opinions, even when they differ from mine.
“I want to learn from others without feeling like the words are being shoved down my throat.”
And we all learn more from others who have a difference of opinion from ours. So, no, I did not shove words down YOUR throat. I stated how White men who fear family retribution have to decide what they want from life and how they will live with the decisions that they make.
Things we all have to learn to do.
“I respect your opinions just like I would hope you would respect mine.”
And I respected your opinion, and never dissed you. I spoke of White men who worry more about what their families think, instead of going after what they (the White men, not you) really want out of life.
“I am 28 years old, I don’t need someone to teach me how to date another race.”
And I do not need anyone to misconstrue and take out of context my words.
“And yes, it IS a must that I MUST get along with the family, esp. Mom and Dad. I am that way individually, just like it is when I date a white woman. If I can’t get along, it’s not for me. No exceptions.”
Fine.
And I am an individual who must do for what makes me happy.
I can only do what I will be satisfied with in my life. I can only live my life.
Then again (speaking for myself), I have not been forbidden to do anything by my parents in decades.
Mom (Dad is deceased) will have to accept that I am adult, not a child. Mom will have to accept that it is my life, not hers (which is what I thought you comprehended from my response to you.) Parents (not speaking of yours) cannot rule their adult children’s lives forever. Sure, there will be people who come and go in and out of an adult child’s life, but, parents cannot protect their children from all the world throws at them. Parents can only continue to love and stand by their adult children.
Whatever the decision that adult child makes.
” If I can’t get along, it’s not for me. No exceptions.”
Can’t get along with the woman in particular…………..
……….or can’t get along with your parents dislike of that particular woman?
“You can hate me for my opinions.”
Wow, twist words around, much, do you.
It is not necessary to fabricate emotions that I did not direct towards you.
Now, go back and read my post, and keep in mind the general noun “you” as opposed to the singular noun “you”, and realize and understand that I meant White men in general.
“I am what I am and I will not change for anyone.”
Oh………………..
…………………….I cannot see why you would say that.
I mean, when the right woman comes along (regardless of race), there is much you will be willing to do to “change” for her.
Trust me.
It happens.
“Peace.”
And peace be upon you as well.
LikeLike
Ann:
I am glad we can have a constructive debate/conversation. I appreciate your input. I am here to learn, especially from other white men in particular about their personal experiences.
I will take what I see as constructive and helpful, while placing other opinions not applied to me on the shelf maybe for a later time.
Can’t get along with the woman in particular…………..
Indeed.
Obviously if you can’t get along with someone regardless of race, you are not happy. I can do things to try and repair a relationship or conversate (which is most important in any relationship) to work things out. Sometimes the other person may not be willing to hold their end of the bargain, or myself not being able to hold my own.
Relationships fail for a multitude of reasons, obviously no one wants to be unhappy. All one can do is toughen up and, if you really love someone, talk about the issues and see where it goes.
……….or can’t get along with your parents dislike of that particular woman?
My parents are accepting of any woman, regardless of race. I am okay in that aspect. I don’t care what the public thinks or says. They are unimportant.
But, every parent will have a dislike of any woman regardless of race. For instance: If I were to bring home a drug user/drug dealer (I would never do in the first place) my parents would show an abundance of disdain and question my judgment.
My point is, my parents are accepting of anyone they deem acceptable for their child, race is not a spec of a matter. It is also my duty to follow and find someone in my best interests and compatible with me.
The only exception, if you will, is that it is a must that I get along with the parents and they too deem me acceptable. Why should I feel uncomfortable every time I go to family gatherings, parties, etc. etc.? I shouldn’t feel like I am always the one left out, or pushed aside and unnoticed.
Therefore, again regardless of race, I need to feel comfortable and accepted as a white man, just as so my family would have open arms for a black woman.
For me, it works both ways and that is a good recipe for a healthy relationship.
“I am what I am and I will not change for anyone.”
Maybe that comment by me was way off, or misunderstood.
I will change for someone, of course I will. I’m sure she would also have to make sacrifices to make certain changes for me also. You are right.
I think what I was originally trying to say was:
“I want someone to accept me for who I am, and I will never let anyone try to change who I am for dating a black woman.”
That includes the ‘perception’ and ‘stereotypes’ from the media, the public, comments, hate, words etc. etc.
I am who I am and that is a white man in search of a black woman.
I hope I cleared or de-misconstrued any statements I have made.
Peace and Blessings
LikeLike
@Azrazyel. It is one thing to respect and love your parents and want to maintain a good relationship. Most other people feel that way. But don’t you think it is something different if the ONLY reason family is unwilling to harmoniously co-exist with your mate is because of the color of her skin versus maybe an actual character flaw in the woman or personality conflicts in general. It seems to me that you would demand that they give you a better reason than skin color.ethnicity for not getting along. Just asking.
LikeLike
@Azrazyel. Oh, and by the way, my now in-laws were up in arms when my husband first told them about us. Now, they either love the hell out of or they should be in Hollywood. But, really it worked out great.
LikeLike
blackpersia:
Read my comment above you. I already stated that my parents are open arms to anyone, regardless.
It is only a matter for me that I am respected and treated with in accordance of the same manner as well.
Peace and Blessings
LikeLike
Exactly and when the ruling elite passed Hate Crime Legislation and actually enforced the law, much of the violence stopped. A fine example of poor whites having as much “power” as the elite whites give them.
__________________________________________
And? This didn’t prevent Sundown Towns from existing well into the 1980’s or prevent White Flight when any Black family moved into “their” neighborhood. Whites have privilege in that they are not automatically assumed to be criminals, thieves, Liars, welfare rats, and every other negative stereotype that is accorded Blacks—regardless of class. And the only reason Cambridge dropped the charges is because of the media frenzy that followed.
The only thing that whites have to be considered about is whether or not someone will call them racist, other than that Blacks cannot prevent them from moving into desirable neighborhoods, follow them around stores because they shoplift, have a total Blackout in Hollywood in which they are not able to see a diversity of images that reflect their reality, prevent them being approved for a loan, deny them or give them sub-standard medical care, deny them a job interview, et c et c. Pretty average Loan Officers School Teachers, Cops, Doctors and Nurses that have the power to effect the reality of many Black people in any given situation.
Lastly, this conversation is pointless since you don’t believe that the average white American has any power to effect the lives of average Black American thus it is pointless to go back and forth with you. Tim Wise, Peggy MacDonald, the blog Stuff White People Do—all white people who see the effects daily and are more qualified to comment on the ways and privilege of everyday White people then some anonymous paranoid Black person on the internet, to get a better understanding of how White privilege works regardless of class.
LikeLike
Excellent comment.
LikeLike
This reminds me of my first girlfriend, back in the 70s…we were both 10 years old at the time. I will never forget her afro puffs.
LikeLike
I love this topic but not because of the rhetoric. I am a “stereotypical” African-American woman (Brown skin, big breast, butt, and thighs etc., blah, blah, blah,). What annoys me is the overtly political correctness this topics bring to head. The truth is that EVERYONE has preferences. If a White man is attracted to a certain look, it is what it is–there is no mystical reason. P.S. ANY man would be attracted to a woman that is sought after by the masses, it is in his genetic makeup. On a more gutteral level we are all the same color in the dark and whether we want to admit it, that in some senses is the bottom line.
LikeLike
I am a middle-age white man, and while I agree with some of these points. I also disagree with some of them. In terms of physical attraction, I’ve often thought that I might be more attracted to black women than white women. Skin color doesn’t matter to me, a black woman could be light-skinned or dark. I’m also more attracted to black women who are thicker (proportionately thick) than I am to those who are thin. Toccara Jones was listed as a black woman that fewer white men would date, but I am extremely attracted to her, and would have no problem bringing her home to meet my mother. I disagree also with “not too big of a bottom”. I like women with some “junk in the trunk”.
LikeLike
Mayhue,
I am a “paranoid” black person, and what are you? Some beacon of knowledge and viewpoint that my skin color can’t possibly allow me to grasp? Just because I refuse to worship at the all-mighty white people’s alter like you does not mean the way I see the world is mute or irrelevant.
I have said power and priviledge are two diifferent things. The things you describe are elements of priviledge not power.
– Not every white person is a Hollywood Producer
– Not every white person is a landlord
– Not every white person is a Police officer
– Not every white person is a Banker
– Not every white person owns a store
– Not every white person is a doctor
Guess what? There are some Black people who work in these fields and I have received crappy service from them. Is that Black power? And I have received excellent service from some whites who served in this capacity and some not so excellent.
According to your own logic, if Tim Wise, Peggy MacDonald, the blog Stuff White People Do – if they are in such a great position to see the world that I am not, then I would have to listen to the David Horowitzes and Pat Buchanans also, since they share the same societal position that Tim Wise and Peggy McDondald does.
The reality is it is pointless for me to continue this conversation with you because your head is so far up all White people’s ass you don’t make any sense.
LikeLike
I’m a black woman,who currently dates a white man. In my past experiences with black men, they appear to be very arguemental in every way.In my relationship now of 9 months, he is always up for new adventures.Even now I still get butterflies when I’m about to see him and that is a great feeling. We love to touch and kiss all the time, no matter where we are. He even paints my toe nails. Live everyday to the fullest and smile. I’m in love at 42 years old and I never felt this love before. Also about the hair? My hair is very short and as my boyfriend, he says,” I fell in love with you, not your hair.”
LikeLike
I say go on a date. Go swimming in the pool, hiking in the mountains,see a concert,always come to an agreement and never argue, and last send pictures of yourself to his cell phone-everday… I’m a black woman and I love my man.Even when our bodies are naked, we love our black and white skin.Love is real,and we will never part. We are soul mates, but in public-we are celebrities.
LikeLike
I am currently in a interracial relationship, I am white and she is black. I feel we were brought together by fate. I first saw her at a restaurant and was amazed at her beauty and I thought about her for over a week until I came to the realization that our paths would probably never cross again until that one day I saw her Beautiful Face on a social networking website and I just knew it was her. Too make a long story short it was her and we will be celebrating our 1 year of love in a couple months. We are together almost everyday. Complete strangers have actually commented to us what a Great and Beautiful couple we are on several occasions. She is the first black woman I have ever dated and I have found the love of my life in her. She has became my life and the color of her skin doesnt make a bit of difference, I think it is beautiful. I believe there is one race and thats the Human Race. I Love You Lynda.
LikeLike
Oh babe, you are amazing and we are meant to be. I’m your chocolate candy bar and we have what it takes to make it. I love you, I need you, and I don’t want to be without you. Your my sexy pants.XOXO
LikeLike
islandgirl: ““Mobbed” lol. ok”
Actually, it’s quite scary sometimes. LOL! Sort of stalker-y.
I’m used to walking around America and being nearly invisible. Men might glance in my direction or strike up some friendly conversation, but that’s about it. Over there it’s a whole ‘nother story. And then you have to contend with the fact that it’s not consider rude to stare. The open-mouthed gaping can be unsettling. And if you’re sitting alone at a cafe or restaurant it’s not uncommon to have one of them just plop in the vacant seat and chat you up.
It’s funny because I’d forgotten what it’s like until I went back for a visit in May. I took a train ride to visit a friend by myself and this guy (older businessman) sat across from me even though the car was mostly empty and stared at me over his newspaper. Creepy. But even creepier was when I got up to move to a different seat and HE FOLLOWED. I kid you not. Happens to me all of the time over there. And the “Where are you from? You look like the women I saw in [name some tropical country] on vacation this summer. The women there are soooo beautiful.” I had a German colleague who spent his vacation in Cuba once and he couldn’t shut up about it afterward. Drove us all crazy.
I must note that I’ve never been bothered in England on any of the 5 trips there. It was unusual in a different way: the men there treated me like I was raceless; just like all of the other women. I dated an Englishman and a Scotsman (both for over a year) and, I must say, one of the most refreshing things about it was that they didn’t even seem to care that I was “exotic”. It was a complete non-issue for them and their friends/family. That surprised me.
The German guys treated me like a tropical flower (except for my husband) and the American guys treated me like forbidden fruit. The Brits (and some Austrialians and a Kenyan) that I was friends/colleagues with treated me like… a person. It was quite shocking, really. LOL!
LikeLike
Sorry about the “stalker.” I had the same experience in Mannheim.
LikeLike
Guess what? There are some Black people who work in these fields and I have received crappy service from them. Is that Black power? And I have received excellent service from some whites who served in this capacity and some not so excellent.
According to your own logic, if Tim Wise, Peggy MacDonald, the blog Stuff White People Do – if they are in such a great position to see the world that I am not, then I would have to listen to the David Horowitzes and Pat Buchanans also, since they share the same societal position that Tim Wise and Peggy McDondald does.
The reality is it is pointless for me to continue this conversation with you because your head is so far up all White people’s ass you don’t make any sense.
*******************************************
Your incredible obtuseness with your own head solidly up white people’s asses wouldn’t be so stultifying and morbidly pathetic if you cannot even conceive that Bad customer service is not what I am at all talking about. As I said—it was already pointless to discuss obviously abstract topics when you attempted to engage in something you have no conception of even understanding and the worst part is that your hypocritical vacillations cannot hide your own weird obsessions with IR blogs run by Black women in which you excoriate Black women for their own hypocrisy and the supposed threat the Black women have for injuring Black male pride–yet your blatant hypocrisy is so pathetically evident.
Your paleo-style ignorance and inability to understand basic social concepts when discussing race makes you unworthy for any further dialogue.
Don’t address me again and I’ll be sure to return the favor but I am sure your inept pride cannot afford anything less then to have the last word.
LikeLike
Mayhue,
You really should stop projecting your inadequacies upon me. I made an argument you disagree with and all you can do is insult me while ducking the basis of my arguments.
Talk about inept pride, you are loser who can’t control your temper if someone doesn’t agree with you. It is obvious in your last statement where you attempt to give me an order and then cowardly back it up with reverse psychology.
And how exactly do you know what I have an “obsession” with? Are you following me around the net? Perhaps you are obsessed with me.
If you want to suck up to the average white person then by all means. I am sure there is a Bus Driver who is struggling to pay his bills who will welcome the attention you give him.
LikeLike
Oh and put down the thesaurus. It only makes you look like a pseudo-intellect.
LikeLike
Beauty knows no racial limitations. Yes, it is possible for a (handsome) white man to fall romantically and helplessly in love with a black woman or with any other beautiful woman for that matter.
LikeLike
“Truth be Told” and “Mayhue” kiss and make up now. No hating!
LikeLike
Mayhue & Truth B. Told:
If you want to take issue with each other’s arguments on their own merits that is fine, but if you keep on calling each other names, then I will simply delete your comments.
LikeLike
I believe love has no color. My boyfriend and I are really in love, we text a lot, talk on the phone every chance we can. The fact that I’m a black woman, never have I been treated terrible by any race, only the black race. Their are some people who take life to serious…Life is about making the best out of each day and I smile on life. Hey you guys, we are alive. Remember to be nice to one another and say something positive, everyone needs a nice comment…EVERYDAY (:
LikeLike
I am a BW currently engaged to a WM. I thought the topic was very interesting and wanted to comment in agreement with pretty much all of the original authors basic observations of WM’s who typically prefer BW based on the experiences I have had dating my white fiancee.
When I met my honey “B” he lived next door to me as my neighbor. My complexion is medium brown and when I met “B” I was sporting my hair natural (a well-groomed kinky afro) and sometimes I styled it with braids.
After B and I established a surprising friendship and had been dating for some time, “B”, my sweetie, confessed to me that it was easier for him to approach me as just a nice girl he wanted to date, despite race….since he grew up in Oregon where there’s less racism (We currently live in Texas, the deep south).
He never looks at people heavily in terms of race so that was a factor—he was never a closet racist in the beginning. He is , first of all just a very non-judgemental and open person.
But really the main ,number one reason he felt comfortable with me was because he said I am a “sweetheart” and also,–In his own words, the attraction factor is that I “speak perfect English” and can carry on an intelligent conversation without a lot of slang. He really detests it when anyone makes a mockery of the English language by using it all wrong.
B and I enjoy having intellectual discussions over coffee, and he does appreciate and admire the fact that I am an educated (master’s degreed) sister.
Also, before I met “B” I was very surprised to find out that when I was wearing my fro that MORE white men were attracted to me—almost as though I was an exotic fantasy–they would stop me and carry on conversatiions with me all the time, and that never happened before I wore the fro.
Also, I do think its true that the WM are more comfortable with the shape of your “typical” white girl, a skinnier frame with the WM fantasy of big breasts.
This is how I am shaped, like an “ice-cream” cone, I have bigger breasts and get skinner toward the bottom– and “B” loves my shape even though when I grew up I was always teased for having “no booty” and “no junk in my trunk” like most of my other black friends. I also believe WM think a big ass= you are “fat” and you need to spend some time on the treadmill.
I just believe deep down that when its all said and done even WM know that to see a STRONG woman comfortable enough in her own skin to just be herself despite the pressure of the dominate culture—and who is proud of who she is and has the spunky attitude that she could “give a damn” what anyone else thinks about how GOD made her—-that in itself, for a BW or any woman to have “self confidence”, “her own sense of style’ and “being true to herself” is attractive to just about ANY man—-even white men! A BW’s SELF PRIDE and CONFIDENCE can allure anyone into her beautiful world if she is comfortable enough with her own power.
LikeLike
Hi Yolanda:
I have to disagree with you on white men finding a black woman’s round bottom unattractive or fat. My last boyfriend is white (Swedish and English) and he LOVED that I have a curvy figure. He proclaimed hisself the official “butt” man and said that legs came next and then breast. I do agree on some points, our education levels were an attraction as I also have a masters degree and he is a professional also. I have just began wearing my hair natural so I will see who I get the most compliments from. I do believe that many black men say they do not like weaves or relaxers, but are in denial. I still love black men though!
LikeLike
I have to agree with G-Ball, I am a white male and My Black Lady has a Perfect Bottom.
LikeLike
Peter, email me at twilight2980@hotmail.com
LikeLike
I am thinking of doing a post on “white men that black women like” – the opposite of this one. If anyone wants to do a guest post, I am open to the idea. Also if anyone can point me to good sources of information online, that would help me too.
The ideal guest blogger would have strong opinions on the subject that can be expressed in 500 words, give or take 20 words.
LikeLike
I think the subject would be a bit broad. I am a woman who is more attracted to intellect than looks. Some women are looking for a vanilla bad boy.
However the most common thing I noticed is many BW seem to pair with dark-haired, dark-eyed WM.
LikeLike
Physically black women are as equally attractive as all other races. And every type of black woman usually looks nice, at least in my opinion. But I’m always hearing about their so called bad attitude, yet the ones I know aren’t like that at all.
So is it a complete myth, or is it that you drop the attitude with non-black men? Or is it that the black women with non-black men are the non-attitude types?
LikeLike
Tibbs:
I think it’s probably a bit of both: black women who date out know how they are stereotyped, so I’m sure some make a conscious effort to not fit that image. But, I also know many black women who date out who just aren’t bitchy.
Then there are those like me who don’t consider themselves as having attitude as much as having a back bone. I don’t usually look mean and I don’t make a federal case of every action and comment that is made. But, when the need arises, I will stand toe-to-toe with a man and express my displeasure.
Ironically, the man I’m seeing (White) has admitted to baiting me sometimes just to experience the “attitude.” So, I think he’s learning what most black men grow up knowing – we may become a bit demonstrative at times, but really it’s harmless. They also know the same engery that fuels the fire of rage fuels the fires of passion, too. *smiles*
LikeLike
IMHO,
I think the ghetto black women are the one’s with the attitude. They are the one’s who don’t date out of race.
It seems that black women who date out of race are successful, have a career, have a life and just something going for them.
That’s the difference in my opinion.
LikeLike
To often people equate “ghetto” with being black. I used to work in social services. I’ve seen the same “attitude” from poor white women. Strangely, no one will lump poor white women with white women as a whole.
Black people are diverse as any other segment of American life. Women in my family know ghetto behavior is completely unacceptable.
People with choices don’t lash out at the world.
LikeLike
Luna:
I meant no disrespect when I mentioned ghetto.
That is just my way of interpreting a certain group if you will, and a term everyone equates to.
It’s kinda like me saying that the same class can be applied to white people as white trash.
It’s basically a term everyone has heard and knows of. Sort of like the term ‘whigger’ for white people. It is probably wrong to classify in such a manner, but again, everyone easily equates to those terms with one word, and without need for further explanation.
Take care
LikeLike
Azrazyel,
No offense taken. It is just an observation.
Poor black people fall into the same trap of presuming all black people are poor. I’ve called them on their skewed vision of the world.
LikeLike
Abagond:
“I am thinking of doing a post on “white men that black women like” – the opposite of this one. If anyone wants to do a guest post, I am open to the idea. Also if anyone can point me to good sources of information online, that would help me too.
The ideal guest blogger would have strong opinions on the subject that can be expressed in 500 words, give or take 20 words.”
I don’t know if we can make some inputs or requests as bloggers, but it would be nice for once if we can have a blog asking everyone of all races why they love the opposite race, what got them attracted, what keeps them interested, their experiences etc. etc.
I see to many Why black women……
Why white women……
Why white men…..
Why black men…..
I don’t know, I was just throwing some ideas out there hoping it may stick to the wall somehow. After all, you created this for us……
LikeLike
Luna:
I know that all black people aren’t poor. I also know that all white people aren’t rich, and same with any other race.
I would like to see someday people get over the ‘assumptions’ and ‘stereotypes’ and see each other as the same. Equal opportunity for all, no matter race or cultural upbringing.
BTW, I wish more white men actually saw the beauty in black women. I am glad I have finally found the beauty not just on the outside, but inside also. Black women need love too, just like all of us, as well as someone to care for them, be companions and best friends. And NOT just to make a ‘fling’ with a black woman, but to ACTUALLY date and marry them too.
Maybe someday that will be the case…..I just hope so.
Take Care
LikeLike
Oh and BTW Lynette:
“It seems that black women who date out of race are successful, have a career, have a life and just something going for them.”
I stated Black women who date OUT OF RACE, and NOT WHITE MEN, please stop trying to shove useless words out there for me.
I don’t need a spokesperson, let alone a very annoying one.
LikeLike
Sorry abagond. I know you had to delete my one post, I’ll try to tone it down next time.
LikeLike
Thank you.
LikeLike
A co-worker told me to watch a show called “Battle of the Bods”. At first, I wasn’t interested because it is kinda tacky, but it is a very interesting, almost social experiment. It is were a panel of 3 guys judge a woman’s looks (of which there are 5 women) in 3 different segments. The first is face, then the women pick a body part (breast or butt) and finally overall appearance.
There was a marathon so I watch 3 or 4 episodes back to back. It never failed, the black women were always rated the lowest in almost all catagories expect for “butt”. In almost each episode the guys made comments of how the black women looked like men/linebackers and they seemed disgusted by them. But when it came to the butt, they were a little kinder in their judgements. It was really kind of sad to watch, but that reflects society in some ways. It seems that some people think the best thing about a black women is the butt, which is an insult. The most disturbing part is that even some of the black men where pertetuating the harsh attitude toward the women. It was sad to watch.
LikeLike
Islandgirl:
I feel and understand where you are coming from.
You have to remember, the MEDIA is the key player in this. They have tried to put down the strength and beauty of a black woman for so long and to much avail.
It’s unfortunate people maybe too stupid to look past the media types, and actually look at those women individually. The media tries to play the card as black women are the ugliest and most unwanted race of women on the face of this planet.
I really don’t get it. Me being a white man I can honestly say, for myself, that black women are the most beautiful women of all races. Does that mean I hate white women? Hecks no. I will always love my white women.
Black women just have it going for me, and they deliver in all phases and aspects that no other woman could possibly do.
Please don’t pay attention to the media. It will only cause hurt. I just want to let you know that black women are adored my ALL races of men, it’s just a matter of time people wake up from the devilish character the media portrays black women, and see the true gem that they are.
Later
LikeLike
islandgirl:
Wow, what an interesting show! I agree with Azrazyel. I think most black women look better than most white women. But if you are brainwashed by Hollywood, then you will think white women are better looking in general.
LikeLike
But if you are brainwashed by Hollywood, then you will think white women are better looking in general.
So basically you believe that people who don’t see the world your way are compromised mentally? Why can’t someone have a different aesthetical taste without being “brainwashed”.
FWIW, I believe that beauty is an individual trait, not a group one.
LikeLike
Some men prefer Hollywood beauty because it is their natural preference – it is what they would have liked anyway. But some men are brainwashed. That sounds extreme but I believe it is true.
It goes something like this in very rough numbers:
33% of men do not prefer Hollywood beauty
33% of men prefer it naturally
33% of men prefer it because they have been brainwashed.
We know there is brainwashing going on because Hollywood’s idea of beauty keeps changing and yet most men seem to go for it anyway.
For example, in the 1950s and 1960s it was women with nice curvy figures; now it is thin, underfed-looking women (yes, you can tell which I like). Some because it is what they have always liked, some because Hollywood has made it seem like something beautiful.
Admittedly, “brainwashed” might be too strong of a word since most of the men in question were probably fence-sitters to begin with. If they had strong preferences against the Hollywood standard of beauty they would not have been affected.
LikeLike
You ladies should move to England or France. Your beauty is fully appreciated here and you will not be associated with the ghetto. It seems I can’t go more than a few yards here in London without tripping over a BW with a WM and even more so in Paris.
LikeLike
It’s not just men who buy into this. The twist of that show “Battle of the Bods”, I forgot to mention, is that the women has to rank the ladies in the order that they think the men would rate them and they win money if they are correct. So the women also ranked the black ladies last. In one show there were two black women and guess what their rankings were – 4 and 5 from both the women and men.
One of the women got upset with the black women and told her that she has “nappy hair”.
If you want to see an honest, non-politically correct and harsh way black women are viewed, this show does just that. It will probably always be that way.
LikeLike
islandgirl:
“It’s not just men who buy into this. The twist of that show “Battle of the Bods”, I forgot to mention, is that the women has to rank the ladies in the order that they think the men would rate them and they win money if they are correct. So the women also ranked the black ladies last. In one show there were two black women and guess what their rankings were – 4 and 5 from both the women and men.
One of the women got upset with the black women and told her that she has “nappy hair”.
If you want to see an honest, non-politically correct and harsh way black women are viewed, this show does just that. It will probably always be that way.”
But of course when you keep watching the media, you will always get the impression that black women are the undesirables.
If you can ever turn away from that, you may see the actual ‘reality’ of what some of us in here, and in the world ‘truly’ think about black women.
Negativity draws negativity.
Positivity only shows it’s true meaning.
In other words……
stop watching reality shows.
LikeLike
islandgirl,
Azrazyel is correct in stating that in the REAL WORLD BW are MORE APPRECIATED than in the ANTI-BW HATING media world.
Reality shows are NOTROIOUS for TRASHING the HUMANITY, DIGNITY, and FEMININITY of BW. Of course, the LIES, MYTHS, AND STEREOTYPES being promoted by the media and American culture need to be DESTROYED.
One way to DESTROY these lies is to stop watching the ANTI-BW media and BOYCOTT the advertisers who SPONSOR this ANTI-BW GARBAGE. The second way is for BW/PRO-BW people to gain control of the media that is produced and create ALTERNATIVE programs that show a TRUTHFUL/POSITIVE image of BW.
LikeLike
I don’t watch that show at all. I just watched that one marathon and had enough. But the reality is, that most people don’t stop watching those shows. I think that show does reflect reality to a certain extent. Where I’m from, black women are viewed in this way, that’s why my co-worker told me to watch it to begin with. She’s fed up with this way of thinking. It’s not just a matter of turning off the T.V.
LikeLike
islandgirl:
“don’t watch that show at all. I just watched that one marathon and had enough. But the reality is, that most people don’t stop watching those shows. I think that show does reflect reality to a certain extent. Where I’m from, black women are viewed in this way, that’s why my co-worker told me to watch it to begin with. She’s fed up with this way of thinking. It’s not just a matter of turning off the T.V.”
Let me ask you,
Does it matter that much what you deem as ‘everyone’ thinks? Really?
Or is it more important to find someone who doesn’t deem you in that manner?
I could care less if many people think that I am undesirable.
All that matters to me is that ‘ONE’ individual who sees me for me, and not by your experiences/watching the media. Your letting that perception get in your head, all I can say is stop it!
Maybe you are focusing on the negativity a little too much, and letting that influence your thinking and feelings. Therefore, it seems ‘YOU’ feel ‘EVERYONE’ thinks black women are undesirable.
I will tell you this:
Maybe if you try and look for the ‘positive’ things such as that pertaining to your questions, thoughts, feelings and speculation, it just may be that you will find the true answers that are locked inside your heart. Open up a little bit….
Like I said, negativity draws negativity.
Try giving positivity a chance and you might just find some solace and reasoning that you are desired by ‘ALL’ races of men.
Good luck
LikeLike
Hey, I am not gay or anything, but I happen to go on line to find the website you guys were talking about “Battle of the Bods” and there was a link for this website.
It’s called “Beautiful Fit Black Women (in case this website does not work). I love fitness and are extremely proud to see other black women take charge of their health. It takes a lot of commitment and discipline. I believe the problem is all of the negative sublimal messages black women receive on a daily basis year after year (starting at birth) surrounding our physical appearance. The black community is saturated with unhealthy environments that promotes drugs, alcohol abuse, and sexual promiscuity. Combine these factors with lack of quality health foods in our neighborhoods (some supermarkets only carry junk which is a problem for many black women who more than likely do not own a car) and the notion that if we exercise, we will mess up our weave, perm, etc. It is a vicious and crazy cycle.
Well anyway, check out this website and see how I believe many of us could look or come pretty close if we decided to take better care of ourselves, spritually, emotionally and physically.
LikeLike
“You ladies should move to England or France. Your beauty is fully appreciated here and you will not be associated with the ghetto.”
Gotta agree here. Definitely better off in Europe.
I was watching some European movies lately and was struck by how often the love interest was a black woman. But the thing that startled me the most (that I hadn’t noticed when living over there) was that in none of the movies is the fact that she’s black part of the storyline. It doesn’t even get mentioned.
Over here it seems like if there’s a BW as a main character it’s because she’s black.
LikeLike
This is all really interesting. As an upper middle-class, black-American woman of multi-racial descent, I ran into this page, because I was thinking a lot about race and relationships and did some googling.
It is funny to read some of the generalizations and see some of my own observations and feelings observed.
I, too, have noticed that a lot of “dark,” “natural sisters” are getting loads of attention and love from white men who come from similar socio-economic status. I LOVE THIS!!!
Clearly, not everyone is the same, but I have totally observed that lots of black men go for “lighter,” more eurocentric looking women with longer, straighter hair. And, I think, the body shape thing is mainly a class issue amongst black men now. Most black men who are highly educated/professional want thinner women who “don’t look black.” Other black men still appreciate the curvier shape, but have the colorism issues.
However, my “skinny, black” sister’s good fortune in this respect is my loss…. I’m a dead ringer for Lisa Bonet and used to be thinner, but now have a “thick” shape. Black men from the lower-middle class love me, but it is because I am “light skinded” and have “good hair.” This is so frustrating for me, because it smacks of the brain-washing so many black Americans became prey to when it comes to Eurocentric ideals… And, honestly, no matter how nice these guys might be, I know if I looked “more black” they wouldn’t be into me… And they don’t have the level of education that I do, nor do we share certain socio-economic traits and values.
Upper-middle class/professional black men seem to have taken on the preferences of their white American counterparts…. That is super-thin and E.B.B. (everything but black).
White men, on the other hand, are not interested, because I am not thin and I don’t have the exotic high cheekbones and almond shaped eyes that they find attractive in women who look like Kerry Washington, Halle Berry, Gabrielle Union or Sanaa Lathan. However, they are usually the men who have more in common with me, aside from professional black men.
I’ve also found that the white American men who dated me were always worried about what other people were going to think, introducing me to family and what any potential children would look like. My best experiences in dating ANYONE – black, white, purple or green – has been with white European men. Generally speaking, even though most of them adore the darkest berries best, they have less race issues than American men of any color… Colorstruck black men annoy me as much as terrified, prejudiced white men. AND they are educated, cultured and charming.
However, I’m stuck here in the States and my profession would make it difficult for me to find work in Europe 😦
LikeLike
Agreed on Europe and the above poster’s remark on euro films.
Born and raised in Montreal here, French speaking NOT African-Amercian, but black nonetheless 😉 and living in NYC now. I moved here in an effort to jump start my career.
I must say that as a foreigner, I am ashamed of America’s racial state. Then again, I was not raised here but I am quite in shock, indeed. Americans should really travel more as i feel it would help to expand their conscience. This is the 21st century isn’t it so? It did not take me long to “feel” that difference compared to when I walk around the streets of Montreal, London, Paris, Amsterdam or Stockholm, where I have seen many IR couples and received many smiles and clear interest signs from men… who are simply looking and wanting to get to know this pretty girl walking by or sitting at the bar, regardless of her skin color.
This clearly is an area where the US is not avant-garde.
LikeLike
peau d’or: Thank you for the beautiful, wonderful interesting comment! It did not hurt that you mostly agreed with me 😉
LikeLike
My pleasure,
I appreciate the forum, I find it very ironic for me to find someone who happened to make the same observations about IR/ BW&WM that I did…:-)
LikeLike
I just happened to stumble upon your website, and I’ve been reading it all night. Your posts (and your readers’ comments) are very thought-provoking.
Although I can see why some people feel your post is over-simplifying things, I will say that for the most part I agree with you. I am 5’3” and 110lbs, and I’ve always attracted way more White guys than Black ones. People say I have a “big butt for a skinny girl”, but on a whole Black men seem to see me as too thin for them. I’m also brown-skinned, and people say I have the girl-next-door look going on, so I am definitely not “exotic” lol.
On top of that, one thing that has come up in the comments but that you didn’t go into detail on in your post was the personality/demeanor factor. When I was younger, (Black) people would often say the whole “You act White” crap, and now that I attend a prestigious university that is over 80% White I feel like White people find me more…”acceptable” than other Black people. Some people act like they are scared of Black people in general, but not of me. I have a feeling it’s partially a “You aren’t like the others” mentality, though no one’s ever said anything like that to my face.
LikeLike
Black&German,sylphide,and peau d’or,
Thanks for reminding us of a FACT I have repeatedly stated on BW Empowerment blogs.
BW are viewed in a MORE POSITIVE, RACE NEUTRAL manner by MOST European WM than they are by American WM.
Also, MOST European WM have a higher appreciation for the BEAUTY, HUMANITY, and FEMININITY of BW than American WM. That’s why there are more BW/WM marriages in Europe than in the U.S.
Things are slowly beginning to change in America, but hopefully, SOON, BW will be viewed in a MORE POSITIVE, RESPECTFUL way by MOST American WM (and American society/media)as they are by MOST European WM.
LikeLike
its not all men that like black women with light skin. men are different and have different preferences, maybe it all comes from the enviroment they grew up in.
LikeLike
Well, of course it comes from the environment. That’s the whole point! The environment here is poisonous.
I hardly even thought about race over there but as soon as I came back it hit me in the face. Not to say that living as an American in Europe during “Operation Freedom” was exactly pleasant either, mind you. But at least nobody described me as an Oreo. And we’ve got Obama now, so it’s okay. ;0
My family moved to the States for economic (my husband makes much more money here) and personal reasons (my parents live here) but I’ve already discussed moving back to Europe when the kids are a bit older. I don’t want them to develop this kind of race-obsession. It’s unhealthy and it permeates everything here.
I also miss the mixing of the races over there. Maybe I lived and traveled in interracial Nirvana (there are parts of the continent and even in Germany that aren’t as nice) but the people weren’t generally segregated by race like they are here. To tell the truth, other than in the biggest cities, there just weren’t enough minorities around for them to segregate themselves.
Interracial marriage isn’t just common, it’s the NORM.
LikeLike
But, strangely, what I miss most is black women being described as “beautiful” and “attractive”. That’s it. “Pretty for a black girl” is such an insult. And if I have ONE MORE PERSON tell me that I was lucky to get “good hair” I’ll scream!
I’m glad I have this blog to vent to. I think I’m going to need it in the next couple of years. Abagond, keep it up!
LikeLike
You have good hair? Wow, you’re lucky 😉
LikeLike
At nearly 50 year, no one has ever said to me, “… for a black girl.” I think I just scare the hell out of some people.
I’m a dignified black woman with a vocabulary. 😉
LikeLike
I actually cut it all off a month ago Halle-style and let the curls go wild. My husband loves it.
The most amazing thing about the “Pretty for a black girl” comments is that I don’t even really look black. White people, especially, sometimes know me for months before finding out I’m black (when I mention it).
Black people, on the other hand, have like Africa-radar, or something. And Hispanics often speak Spanish to me in the street. No hablo español!
What the comments really mean is: “You’re pretty because you look white.” Have you ever noticed how white people don’t want to claim any black person unless they’re really good looking, intelligent, or talented?
And then it’s: “Well I heard that he’s/she’s mixed with white. (200 years ago) That explains it.” And how often have we read, “Halle Berry is good-looking but that’s because she’s practically white.” Umm… no. My daughter is practically white. Halle Berry is black or biracial. She’s certainly not white. She’s not even light. She’s actually really dark.
Anyway, I just ran into a really entertaining BW expat’s blog about living in Paris, France. And in one of the comments she posts this:
“…I will say that everywhere I look there are European men married to black women of all shades, shapes and sizes with a gang of kids to boot. LOL I have a lot of European men approach me; but I am VERY picky and quirky. LOL… I guess the answer to your question is YES, european (and other men) love black women, want to date us and marry us. Many black women marry european men here, it’s everywhere I look. If you’re an average black woman (hell, or even a below-average black women) and want to date/marry a european man you will have no problems finding a willing partner.”
https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=7303306207263559925&postID=1290579968897667570
On the other hand, in her blog she notes that the French treat her well (usually) because she’s AMERICAN. If she were from Morocco, it’d be a different story.
I have to say the same. The only times I was treated badly in Germany was when they mistook me for a Turkish girl. And I remember listening to two German guys at a cafe discussing me and one said to his friend, “She looks good but you have to be careful. Those Turkish guys don’t like you messing with their women.” before they got up and left.
In her blog she mentions racism a lot but I think it’s more xenophobia, otherwise her American passport wouldn’t make a difference.
LikeLike
Are all of my comments being moderated now? I’m definitely having trouble posting.
LikeLike
That long comment of yours (#314) got caught in my spam filter. Not sure why. It may have been that long and spammy-looking link you had in it.
Comments only get moderated if they have more than two links or have certain bad words:
LikeLike
LOL@Black&German…
“Africa Radar”
It’s because we know what WE look like.
White people often look through us, not at us. They don’t care about us because we don’t matter.
We have to pay attention to them because they are the majority. It’s a safety precaution.
W.E.B DuBois called it “Double Consciousness” — being aware of your own people’s experience, as well as those of other groups, plus looking at yourself through other groups’ eyes.
LikeLike
alegra88:
“White people often look through us, not at us. They don’t care about us because we don’t matter.”
Is that what you truly believe? Or is your mind too disillusioned to let you truly think that your statement isn’t even a spec of possibility within the true complex that other white’s don’t discriminate?
I mean that’s kind of an insult to us white people who actually care for black people, and all people as a whole.
It would be kind of stupid of me to claim that all blacks live on welfare with ten kids with a ghetto attitude. I certainly know not all black people are like that.
Maybe somebody needs some reorganizing of their thought process.
LikeLike
Well, count me in as someone who needs his thought process reorganized, because I agree with her.
While it may not be true as an absolute statement – something that is true for all white people all of the time under all conditions – it certainly seems that way at least some of the times, more times than it should.
LikeLike
Azrazyel ….
I know not ALL white people fit into this particular way of being. Truly, I know that…
But history shows that this has been the case, as abagond said, more times than it should it should.
That’s all…
Don’t take offense. It’s reality.
Glad you like us, though.
😛 😀
LikeLike
alegra88:
“Azrazyel ….
I know not ALL white people fit into this particular way of being. Truly, I know that…
But history shows that this has been the case, as abagond said, more times than it should it should.
That’s all…
Don’t take offense. It’s reality.
Glad you like us, though.”
I apologize if I seemed to lash out at you.
Maybe I just didn’t think to myself of your experiences.
I was just trying to let you know, even through experiences, that all white men are not this way.
I love black women and I stated before, they are the most beautiful race of women on this planet.
I truly wish more white men as well as black women would come out of hiding and realize love isn’t restricted to your own race.
People live off of the media’s ways and immediately assume all to be that way. Some need to toughen up and embrace their true emotions for somebody.
I pray that someday people will be able to venture out and explore their withheld desires.
Have a good day
LikeLike
It’s funny about “African Radar”, isn’t it?
I remember the first time I saw Angelina Jolie in a Tomb Raider preview. I had never heard of or seen her before and I told my (white) boyfriend at the time, “Isn’t it nice to see women of color in major roles now?” And he just looked at me like, “Huh? She’s white.” And I said, “Mostly, yes. Of course. But you can tell she’s mixed with SOMETHING. True white women don’t look like that.” It wasn’t just the lips, it was the whole package.
I had the same reaction to Mariah Carey back in the day. Come on, every black person who looked at her knew immediately.
And Wentworth Miller… it’s so obvious!
LikeLike
Azrazyel…
It’s cool, don’t worry!!!!
YOU have a nice day TOO!
😀
LikeLike
Black&German….
Yeah I know, something’s up with Jolie. She’s quite ethnic.
And Mariah IS black, for sure. Did other people really doubt that???
LikeLike
I wrote a book on this very subject. Go to my page and read an excerpt. Or reach me on Facebook
LikeLike
The Book is entitled Bay Minette. Go to bayminette.blogspot.com. or Google whohub.
Rose Blue
LikeLike
Mariah Carey has been dogged by questions about her race all along:
LikeLike
I would like to add my opinion about the ‘suppose’ love European WM have for BW. As a BW in the UK I do not see this love and appreciation for BW’s beauty that everyone is raving about. In reality BW beauty is ignored and marginalized within the mainstream media and society at large.
The standard model of beauty in the UK is the Blonde, blue eyed woman and most WM and BM in the UK view this is the ultimate beauty. Some WM are even said that when they’re spoken about their like for BW their white friends found it ‘odd’ and will say WW are better.
If a BW is highlighted in the mainstream UK, it’s usually negative for example Naomi Campbell being arrested or some reality TV star behaving badly.
Even singer/TV presenter Mica Paris wrote an article last year saying that BW are not appreciated for their beauty and that they’re rarely used to promote beauty products in the UK but are used in other parts of Europe such as France and Italy.
If you do see a BW/WM relationship on TV/Film in the UK is usually mixed-raced with European features but rarely do you see a dark skinned BW with typical West African feature billed as hot or desirable.
I also like to add that there is way more BM/WW relationships but not as many as BW/WM in the UK, the statistics back this up.
My outlook is very different from the African American women posting here because I know how British racism works and the ways BW and black people are viewed in this society.
LikeLike
It seems like Britain is more like America than Germany on this one.
LikeLike
Mica Paris’s article on L’Oreal whitewashing Beyonce and the absence of BW in beauty advertisements:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1042675/Beauty-brand-LOreal-accused-whitewashing-Beyonce.html
LikeLike
Super. Thanks.
LikeLike
Yes, Britain is very much like America but the Americans talk more openly about race than the British, that the only difference. Also Britain has a long and unforgettable involvement in the slave trade and the effects of that is still discuss to this day in the UK.
LikeLike
“It seems like Britain is more like America than Germany on this one.”
I think it depends on where in the UK one is. Perhaps.
I mean, East Germany isn’t exactly a bastion of tolerance, either.
It’s like talking about America and then having two people comment, one from California and the other from Mississippi.
LikeLike
The only European countries that can be meaningfully compared to the US for this are the UK and France as they have significant black populations. Black women will of course get attention in Germany as they are an exotic novelty there.
Not saying that WM in UK/France are totally open to dating BW, but much more so than in most of the US in my experience. The races are less segregated than in the US and there is not such a big and isolated ghetto underclass generating a bad image for BW.
LikeLike
Thank you BlackgirlUK,
I also was confused by past posters’ portrayal of Europe as this tolerant, interracial-friendly utopia. The UK is just as racist as the US. The blacks there say the same thing about the racial situation as their US counterparts.
The western world as a whole is pretty anti-black.
LikeLike
NO ONE is claiming that European WM are TOTALLY NON-RACIST towards BW but rather that, IN COMPARISON to MOST American WM, MORE European WM view BW’s beauty in a MORE POSITIVE light and are MORE WILLING to SERIOUSLY date and/or marry them. Of course, ALL majority White countries need to RID themselves of RACIST, ANTI-BLACK attitudes/behaviors.
LikeLike
I do agree that i hardly see WM with BW and i’m from London but i was surprised to see that the new Miss England 2009 is a black women her name is Rachel Christie and it was 52 contestants and about 3 ethnic people between them with all the white blonde women. so i do think that says something about how england is changing. but we have to remember that black people are also the ones that keep using the slavery card. i have a lot of white,east and west asian,black friends maybe because i’m in the younger generation but i still remember seeing how girls in my class seperated themselves the rude girls were mainly black and the white girls just mingled with whoever they wanted to be with. that’s why i’m not hugely surprised that BM and WW are more open to WW becasue of the stereotype of the black rude girl that means every black girl is rude.
I hope i don’t offend anyone but the majority of the rude black people I have met have been Jamacian, African black people are more quiet and have manners
LikeLike
I agree with snowflake and laromana on this one. Also, remember it’s different to be a black African in Europe than to be a black American. The passport does make a difference.
And remember:
“As of 2001, 2% of all marriages in the United Kingdom are inter-ethnic. Despite the UK’s having a much lower proportion of non-white population (9%) than the United States, the frequency of mixed marriages is as common.”
But German men really are the most open to it. Actually, no. It’s just that they don’t really care one way or the other. It’s a non-issue for most of them (neo-Nazis excluded, of course).
I talked about this with my husband this weekend and he thinks American men are either crazy or closet homosexuals. He doesn’t understand the concept of putting women into categories of “acceptable race” and “unacceptable race” and then parsing them for attractiveness. For him, women come in three forms: “I wouldn’t shag her.”, “I’d shag her.”, and the category I’m in: “God help me, she’s so hot that I’m drooling.” That is all. LOL!
And he swears his German friends feel the same way. Some of them like dark women, some like pale ones, and some just like women. For them it’s more a question of aesthetics than race, sort of like saying that you prefer tall women or ones with large breasts. Interestingly, he says that none of his friends or relatives have ever even mentioned my being black. That surprised me.
I used to complain about racism when I lived in Germany and I know black Brits who did the same as well. But now that I’ve moved back I see that it’s all very relative. It seems worse over here. The stereotypes seem so set in stone.
On the other hand, we went to a carnival on Sunday and it was like a Miscegenation Party. Really, there were so many mixed-race and inter-ethnic couples (interestingly, the majority where BW/WM but that seems to be a local thing here for demographic reasons) that I wondered if it was some sort of interracial holiday.
It was strange and so ironic that I was tempted to take a picture of it: at one point I looked over and noticed a drop-dead good-looking WM holding a mixed-race baby and standing next to what I presumed to be the mother (also attractive). Then I noticed that they were standing in front of a big booth selling Confederate Flags and banners with “The South Will Rise Again” scrawled on them.
Welcome to redneck country. *sigh* It seems like a part of the population here has moved on and the rest are fighting tooth-and-nail against progress.
Anyway, women: German guys, German guys, German guys.
And they’re the best-looking, especially the Bavarians. But I’m totally biased on that one.
If nothing else, in Germany I was never exactly starved of romantic opportunities (unlike here, where I am invisible) and none of them EVER had an issue introducing me to their friends and family.
Although you have to be careful of the ones who want to introduce you to EVERYBODY as if you were a trophy. As in: “I’ve got my cool job, my nice apartment, my Porsche, and my exotic girlfriend.” I dated a guy like that once (except that he had a BMW). He never spent time alone with me, he just wanted to introduce me to every freaking person he knew. Although I got REALLY lucky because one of the myriad people he introduced me to was… my husband! So, all’s well that ends well and all that.
LikeLike
To Indie girl, I found your comments about Jamaicans racist and ignorant. How can you say that Jamaicans black girls are rude and Africans have more manners?
That is a very backward way of thinking. I’d would expect that from a white person but from a fellow BW that is shameful.
I’m of Jamaican percentage and I don’t behave like that,it could be because I’m older. When I’m travelling around in London I do see some Black girls behaving badly but I don’t say they all got to be African – that would be stupid. On the issue of slavery some black people do bring it up because commentary to what white people in the UK think about it did happen and they amassed millions on the back of people in the Caribbean. I’m not saying we should keep harping on about it but the negative stereotypes about Black people and BW have their origins from there.
LikeLike
I also say to mynameismyname, thank you for understanding my point of view. I wanted to voice my experiences and what I have seen in the UK. I’m not saying there are no WM who will date BW but BW in the UK have repeatedly said that we are ignore and our beauty is looked down upon in comparison to WW by WM and BM in the UK and this assessment can’t be dismiss. However, uncomfortable it may seem.
When I have travelled to the US I’ve found BM and WM more open to me because of my British accent and this is probably the same for African-American women in Europe but I’m still interested in finding out about BW experiences in the US.
I would love Abagond to do a post on how black people who are born and raised in Europe experience everyday racism -It would make a very interesting read!
LikeLike
Yeah, you’re exotic to American men because of the accent. You are different from the pack in their minds. It’s pretty perverse that any black person who isn’t perceived as typically black American in the U.S. is “something special”.
LikeLike
The trouble with a rude Jamaican stereotype, like the Sapphire stereotype for black American women, is that you notice those who fit the stereotype but overlook those who do not. And when white people are ill-mannered it is never because they are white, because whites are seen as individuals not as “white”.
LikeLike
BlackgirlUK said:
I would love Abagond to do a post on how black people who are born and raised in Europe experience everyday racism -It would make a very interesting read!
Well, Europe is a bit broad. It has all those diferent countries each with a different history and relationship with Africa.
But I have done a post on Black France and hope to do one on Black Britain – the two countries where most blacks are.
LikeLike
Like i said BlackgirlUK i didn’t want to offend anyone, but it’s not racist it culture differences and my own experience with them. i didn’t say all as well i said the majority that i know of you seem like a nice person but i’ve been victimised by certain jamacians because i don’t have the stereotypical ghetto attitude (and no it’s not white or any race saying it apart from black) if your nice or friends with someone from a different race your considered an oreo or coconut. Plus because i don’t have a English name which the majority of jamacians do they take the piss out of my name as if I’m from another world. i’m proud of my name and i don’t think people should treat people like that.
like i said it’s from my own experience there are nice and rude people in all cultures but i can understand from a different races view why they would be put off by BW. temper and attitude is something that needs to be sorted out.
LikeLike
To INDIE GIRL, I understand what you are saying about being victimised by Jamaicans but there was been a long history of animosity, resentment and misunderstanding between the Afro-Caribbeans and Africans since the 1960’s onwards. This comes down to the issue of Cultural difference and history, which includes the long and painful issue of slavery. You must remember when my grandmother first came to this country in the 1950s, there was signs in the windows of houses, pubs etc saying ’No blacks, No Irish and No dogs’. So the Jamaicans and other Afro-Caribbeans were facing physical attacks etc by the hands of white Britions, so this spirit of standing up for yourself was born out of necessary.
In regards to the issue of some black girls misbehaving, I must say that they are of both African and Afro-Caribbean percentage. I also think that white Londoners are not making the distinction between the two groups because of the lack of cultural understanding and knowledge of black people in the UK.
I also think to myself why are they behaving like that? and why has this become more common in recent years? unfortunately I feel it comes down to issues of BW/girls being made to feel invisible and marginalized in British society and some of them think the only to gain attention is by behaving in this manner. I’m not excusing this behave but I understand where some of it coming from.
I also like to add that the media in UK keeps reinforcing negative stereotypes about BW being aggressive, loud, controlling, etc which is fuelling BW hatred. We need to fight this because it can influence how we see each other and how people of other races view us.
Abagond, I know the subject of Black people in Europe is vast, so focusing on one or two countries such as UK and France is good. If you need any advice on books, articles etc on the Black experience in the UK please let me know.
LikeLike
I have just come to this site and have read all the articles. As for the distiction of skin color or thicker or thiner. I never cared. All i really cared about was attitude and looks. I have lived all over the world, and have had relationships with many difrent races. I do not care about a person race, i care about the person. wether she is black, white, asian, indian. And most of the men that i know that are into inter racial relationships do not care about the race only the person, that she is black is beside the point. It comes down to personalities and attraction.
LikeLike
BlackgirlUK said:
Abagond, I know the subject of Black people in Europe is vast, so focusing on one or two countries such as UK and France is good. If you need any advice on books, articles etc on the Black experience in the UK please let me know.
That would be great! You can email me at abagond at gmail.com. Online stuff would be best since it is easier to get to, books second best since I can request them from the library.
LikeLike
Wonderful job on creating and maintaining this site, abagond! I think Black Women are the most underrated bunch of pretty women in the entire world!
I’m a Desi(from Indian Subcontinent that is) women in CA. Growing up as a teenager I always had a secret desire to date at least one Black man:) My interest in BM eventually led me to this site, strange ha?
I don’t know what to make of your lists of two groups of women that WM will or won’t date. But then again I can’t read men’s mind that well either 🙂 However, I suggest you consider Tamala Jones into your list of gorgeous BWs.
I think Hollywood does introduce some really ravishing Black actresses from time to time, but ultimately it’s the movie goers that make the decision who’s hot and who’s not! For example everybody knows who Lucy Liu is, but Tamala is a nobody! In my opinion if there’s any contest, Tamala wins hands down, but 90% of WM would rather prefer Lucy. But hey it’s their world!
As long as men rule the world, women will be judged (primarily by the dominant group of men)based on their looks, and even that judgment won’t be fair! It used to be blond women, now it’s far-eastern women, very soon this fad will be over and then maybe women from Mars will be the most premium thang!
So only one thing I can say to BWs, don’t always put yourself down just because men of the ruling class didn’t value your looks! Try to open your mind and you’ll see there are men with all kinds of taste in the good old USA!
Peace.
LikeLike
fallingWater,
Thanks for your PRO-BW comments.
The main fact that abagond has demonstrated on several posts on this blog is that the way BW are viewed/treated by men of ALL RACES in American society has/continues to be influenced greatly by historical ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE (in Hollywood/American media) that has/continues to promote ANTI-BW LIES, MYTHS, and STEREOTYPES that TRASH the HUMANITY, DIGNITY, and FEMININITY of BW.
Also, BW are the ONLY women of ANY RACE in America who have to deal with constantly being DEGRADED, DEMEANED, and DISRESPECTED SOLELY because they are BW.
Fortunately, despite ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE/HATERS in American, MOST BW don’t “always put ourselves down because men of the ruling class don’t value our looks”. MOST BW tend to view ourselves and our BEAUTY in a POSITIVE light.
LikeLike
FallingWater, Laromana,
Hear, hear!
La Reyna
LikeLike
laromana,
You are welcome!
I know there are many strong BW out there who “tend to view themselves and their BEAUTY in a POSITIVE light.” My words were directed toward those who are not as strong!
However, I take issues with your bold statement “BW are viewed/treated by men of ALL RACES in American society has/continues to be influenced greatly by historical ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE (in Hollywood/American media)”.
Men of ALL Races????? Really???? I believe abagond when he’s presenting the general view/feeling of WM toward BW. But how can anybody make such a statement about men of all other races? You automatically assumed that they will make up their mind by the racial stereotypes presented in the mainstream media?
Men from Asia/Indian Subcontinent themselves have been the victims of crude negative stereotypes by the media for a long time. You think they enjoy the images of emasculated-nerdy-not-worthy-of-desire Asian men, turban-wearing-funny-sounding-smelly Indians, and gibberish-speaking-terrorism-loving Muslims?
There is a lot of resentments among Desis/Asians about this and they hardly take media stereotypes on other races seriously! My point is men of other races DO NOT take the exact same view toward Black women as WM do!
Speaking from my experience, I can assure you Brianna Francisco featured in abgond’s https://abagond.wordpress.com/2007/0/26/race-and-beauty/ thread will be considered beautiful by many Desi men, in fact a lot of those women in his list of ‘BW that WM won’t date’ will also be considered pretty in our eyes! That’s why I am a little surprised reading abagond so confidently say “I cannot see many white men going for Brianna”!
Of course Asian/Desi men are not immune from the blond-thin ideals of beauty but they will always include some women of their own region and women of other ethnicity in their long list of desired women.
I know this thread is primarily about IR dynamics between WM and BW. But many posters here and on other threads frequently assume non-White men’s opinion to make their points! That’s disturbing! Unless you are using scientific polls, you can never know how non-White males in the US think, since their voices are NOT reflected ANYWHERE!
Sorry for the bitchiness, just felt the need to clarify some misconceptions:)
Peace.
LikeLike
There are a lot of resentments among Desis/Asians about this and they hardly take media stereotypes on other races seriously! My point is men of other races DO NOT take the exact same view toward Black women as WM do!
*******************************************
Naturally these types of topics demand generalizations because that is the only way to discus cultural and social phenomena but many groups do take their cue from White society and the actual marriage stats certainly show that non-White men’s preference overwhelmingly favor White women with Asian and Latina women vying for second place. In other words, if a Latino or Asian man had to choose between a White or Black women, statistically, he will choose the White woman with very few actively deciding to choose the Black woman. In fact, Asian Men and White women is a quietly growing pairing in America precisely because of the model minority meme that favors Asian men with higher paying jobs, stability, and intelligence.
Of course I do appreciate your unique perspective, but I have to disagree that Desi/East Indians are not immune to the pernicious views that inform what race is inferior or superior. I have met plenty of Desi’s who viewed Blacks as beneath them in every respect and they were certainly not eager to date Black women other than as a one off. In addition, East Indians certainly find the model minority meme useful since it usually highlights their positive qualities (they are considered one of the more successful Asian groups across the board) that American society finds a winning combination. Moreover, whatever prejudice they experience in America (and I do understand that it can come from Blacks), they can easily return and integrate back into their culture in India. In fact there is a surge of Brain Gain; due to India’s dynamic economy that has beckoned many Indians to emigrate back home. Black Americans for the most part have to endure right here and have no other home country to sustain them.
LikeLike
I just have a simple statement:
Why do some black women concern themselves about what white men think about them?
I mean, if your that worried, then maybe it’s not for you?
Obviously, you can’t change the viewpoints of many white men.
Complaining about it will get you nowhere. Find someone who will except you for who you are and quit worrying about what ‘all’ American white men think.
BTW, I am an American white male. I just sort of had these few questions and thoughts I wanted to get out.
I don’t mean any disrespect or harm to anybody in anyway.
I am just curious for the reasoning stated here.
Thanks!
LikeLike
Azrazyel,
Some people seem to be overly concern about what others think about them. If you are secure in who you are, people will always be attracted to you.
I work in sales. I am very particular about my image. But I don’t obsess over how they see me on a personal level.
It is my confidence which holds their attention.
LikeLike
fallingWater,
Let me clarify what I meant.
In America, men of ALL RACES have historically been exposed to ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE and this has NEGATIVELY influenced the way BW are viewed/treated by SOME of these men.
LikeLike
Mayhue,
Thanks for further clarifying what I meant in the comments I’ve posted above.
LikeLike
Azrazyel,
I, for one, am not actually concerned about whether WM find me attractive. To tell the truth, I’m only interested in whether my husband finds me attractive.
But I am interested in the general phenomenon. It speaks volumes about how BW are treated and viewed in this society. It’s almost like a caste situation, KWIM? I rarely experience this myself due to my appearance, but I have so many black female friends and relatives that I still feel effected by all of this.
And as for south-Asian men: my experience was always that if they had to choose between black and white women they’d prefer… biracial women.
I also used to hang out with a lot of Puerto Ricans and let me tell you: they are down with the brown. Actually, I think they’d take anything but a Mexican. Their mothers would choke them with their bare hands if they ever brought home a Tejano girl. :-p I am NOT kidding.
Although I’ve heard that in California and some other states there’s a lot of rivalry between the Hispanics and blacks for economic/territorial reasons. But I think that’s more of a Mexican-thing.
LikeLike
About Hispanic guys:
You have to remember that a lot of them have “African roots” and feel more culturally-affiliated with black Americans than with white ones. Cubans, Puerto Ricans, Dominicans, Brazilians, etc.
Perhaps it is the other way around for Mexican and East Asian men?
LikeLike
Damn near all of the Southeast Asian people I’ve seen and known “stick to their own” romantically.
Few date/marry interacially. I think they do so for religious and cultural reasons.
I agree w/ B&G about Latin American males. I see the same thing although again, the majority “stick with their own” nationality. PR men mostly stick with PR women. I can respect and understand that.
LikeLike
Yes, SA people rarely date interracially or even inter-ethnically. My point was just that I doubt that they would prefer WW.
LikeLike
Thanks for the replies.
I really don’t care about the Asian/Hispanic/Puerto Rican people.
Nowhere did I mention that.
I was asking black women who are interested in white men why they worry about what we think or stereotype them to be.
And if dating white men maybe isn’t just for them if they are so concerned to begin with.
I didn’t ask about Asians, Hispanic nor Puerto Ricans, only people who I am pertaining to.
Thanks.
LikeLike
One more thing I forgot to add:
Black&German I don’t need your responses in this question since you don’t relate to what I am talking about.
Sorry, not trying to be rude, just trying to filter out people who don’t pertain to my question.
Thanks.
LikeLike
South Asian men and black women:
The South Asian men I have known are probably affected most by their own colourism, which Hollywood only strengthens. That means they take it for granted that black women are not all that good looking: they are too dark.
Their heads turn when a beautiful blonde walks into the room; not so when it is a beautiful black woman.
In my experience seeing a South Asian man dating a black woman is extremely rare, one of the rarest pairings there are.
Marrying black women seems to be completely out of the question for family reasons. Also, many of them have arranged marriages and black women just are not part of that network.
LikeLike
Note: “white men” in this post means white American men.
LikeLike
I know a black woman who is married to a South Asian man. But he’s from Guyana. Said man’s brother was also married to a black woman.
I’ve known of other instances of South Asian men and black women together but they were hardly the majority as Aba pointed out.
Yet, for what it is worth, of the small amount of South Asian/Black marriages in the U.S., there are more S. Asian male/Black female pairings than otherwise. This is according to Census stats.
I also agree that South Asians and East Asians are indeed the most colorist ethnicties of people. They take it to new heights.
LikeLike
Also, when you say “they take it for granted that black women are not that good looking”, are you talking of a specific mentality or your own personal assessment? Just curious.
LikeLike
Abagond succinctly states my own observations—in most instances they would actually see a white person before they see a Black person and I am talking about the well educated set in places like New York, Boston and Chicago who thrive on the model minority meme. They are notoriously racist and colorist and they are quite vocal about not wanting any kind of Black into their family.
In regards to South Asians in Guyana, they have a slightly different heritage as does East Indians that migrated to Trinidad and Jamaica—thus there is a kind of syncretism history that is absent in other places thus they may be more inclined to engage with Blacks because they are the minorities in these countries dealing with a Black majority. I have cousins who have a East Indian grandmother and their mother is half, and they are more inclined to mix with Blacks to some extent and they are less likely to be hung up around Blacks.
In regards to Hispanics, White Cubans are notoriously elitist and racist—having lived among them for some years. It would be an insult to them if you told them that they have Black blood since they are the first to announce their pure Castilians blood. Also Puerto Ricans may have some commonality with Blacks but they would claim Taino blood then claim Black and I have seen the same thing with Dominicans, some of who are way darker than a lof Black Americans.
was asking black women who are interested in white men why they worry about what we think or stereotype them to be.
And if dating white men isn’t just for them if they are so concerned to begin with.
Because women are often valued by how they look more than their intelligence, good heart, or values or anything else. And when you have a generation of Black women that grow up around and interact with other whites in school and the workplace, that is unprecedented then anywhere in American history, and they pretty much share the same values, there may be the expectation that they are on equal footing to Whites, Asians, and Hispanics. It should be noted that Blacks are a minority so they are going to have far more experiences dealing with White people than the other way around. And they are going to interact, become attracted and have the same kinds of dreams of stability and heath and home just like any other woman in America and they may see that future with someone White.
However, time and time and time, it is told through media and America’s culture that physically Black women are at the bottom, even though in reality that is not the case. The perception that Black women area ugly no matter what unless they are mixed or not tainted by being Black American culture is a hurdle that is difficult to cross for the average Black woman who believes that they have the same rights and should be valued just as much as the other races of women.
Thus since a woman’s value is still in how she looks, what better way to devalue and dehumanize a group of women who are deemed beneath a White standard than to brand them undesirable, ugly, and worthless.
LikeLike
Thank you Mayhue. Those are some answers that I was seeking.
Unfortunately, most of the stuff you said was true. Not as in black women being ugly or undesirable, but the way the media has and still portrays them as such.
Many white males see that and immediately disassociate themselves from wanting to be around it. Maybe it is ignorance, but I think a majority of it stems from stigma i.e. friends, family, relatives and public outlook.
I have a feeling that will never change. Maybe over time it will, as I know maybe it has a little bit so far, but if and when it does it is going to be quite a while.
Kind of saddening I can’t seem to want to date a black woman without knowing the fact I will face prejudice of some sort.
I am a strong individual, but sometimes I wish we all could choose to love whomever we so please without the garbage that is tagged along with it.
I guess I am hoping for a perfect world?
I am still interested, and from weighing the pro’s and con’s, in the end it might just all work out and I certainly hope my concerns will be proven false.
Thanks again for your comments and take care.
Az
LikeLike
Here’s an idea all you ignorant racists: Stop equating acting feminine with “acting white” and calling acting loud, rude, vulgar and masculine “acting black”. Abagond, I thought you were above that. In case you haven’t noticed, white men like feminine women. They’re not racist like black men who care about skin color and hair. They don’t care about the color of a woman as long as she’s beautiful and feminine. This is why Asian women are really popular with white men, because the majority of them are sweet and ladylike, have good morals and manners, and act and dress feminine and attractive. And white men will also date black women, like the ones you listed, who fit those same descriptions. If we must go with stereotypical labels you could say such black women are acting “yellow”, not white. I’ve also noticed many white men aren’t adverse to thicker curvy-but-not-overweight figures either (even if the magazines send a different message), it’s the unflattering outfits and rude gross behavior that turns them off. You don’t have to act stereotypically ghetto to act black, and acting feminine doesn’t make you less black. Black women have the right to be women too without being labeled.
LikeLike
Im a White boy that loves black women. I have from a young kid, but ive never discriminated against my own. Ive dated many white girls and black girls. I love the darkness in a black girl. I love how good they are in bed. It also seems to me that a black woman appreciates a white man more than a white girl. Black females seem to have more drive and determination, and theyre bodies are amazing. Thats my basic stand point as a white male.
p.s i like all black girls not just light skinned black girls
LikeLike
Mynamismyname said:
Also, when you say “they take it for granted that black women are not that good looking”, are you talking of a specific mentality or your own personal assessment? Just curious.
Both: from what they say – light skin is huge on the South Asian beauty scale – and noticing how they react to black women. It is like they barely consider women past a certain degree of darkness.
LikeLike
kerryisgorgeous:
Good point: “acting black” and “acting white” are a poor choice of words. In the post I changed it to “she will be thin and not act too ‘ghetto’, but more like a middle-class white woman.”.
LikeLike
Hmm…
Now that I think more about it, I guess what you say about SA men might be true. Most of the ones I’ve known where from other countries than India. As in, they were of Indian-ethnicity but were citizens of a different country like France, Germany, Mauritius, South Africa, Madagascar, etc. Maybe that changes their veiwpoint.
“The perception that Black women are ugly no matter what unless they are mixed or not tainted by being Black American culture”
The second part of that is interesting. I’ve noticed that as well. If you were to take two identical-looking BW and introduce one as Brazilian and the other as “from Mississippi” I think the first one would be considered more attractive. But that’s just a hypothesis.
White Cubans surely are a class for themselves. But the majority of Cubans aren’t white, just the ones you see in the States.
That’s something else weird. I’ve heard white American and German men talking about beautiful Cuban women but when the Americans are talking they mean women who look like this:
or this:
And the Germans mean women who look like this:
or this:
LikeLike
kerryisgorgeous
Well said, I agree with you.
Where can I meet more of these yellow-acting black girls? They sound just perfect.
LikeLike
NO ONE women is the epitome of femininity or lack of femininity BASED ON RACE ALONE.
That’s why the ANTI-BW STEREOTYPES that generalize NEGATIVE character traits to ALL BW or PRO-AW STEREOTYPES that generalize POSITIVE character traits to ALL AW are RACIST.
There are women with feminine and unfeminine character traits in EVERY RACE. ANY woman of ANY RACE deserves to have her beauty/femininity judged on an INDIVIDUAL basis instead of STEREOTYPES.
LikeLike
kerryisgorgeous I can’t agree with most of your comment at 369, the black does not equal ghetto part yes but thats about it.
You are aware of the stereotypes(atleast some) about race but turn away from the ones about gender. Are you aware of the conditioning women had to endure and why so many of us bend over backwards to be accepted by men (just like many blacks would do backflips for white acceptance)? It is the “white man’s” concept of beauty that largely influenced most black men’s dream woman, so don’t forget who put that ideal into heavy rotation, I know a lot of people don’t like hearing that but that is fact, sorry.
I’m a black woman, who prefers black men but have dated white men. Black men care about skin and hair and white men don’t? Are you kidding me? The history between the two groups squashes that and there are plenty white men current day who fit your description of black men’s mindset but there are plenty (black and white) who do not. Growing up in the Caribbean (and yes there are color issues there), most of the interracial marriages I’ve seen (and this is in retrospect as I really wasn’t concerned with that until I came to the U.S) have been between WM and BW, mostly Italian men and their families went back and forth between the island and Italy. And there were plenty of black men who are with black women, close cut hair, non-extension braids, dreadlocks and all. Most, if not all men like beautiful and feminine women but what really is the definition of those two words? Its a slippery slope and you’ll quickly find yourself surrounded by a million stereotypes and a very limited philosophy on life.
I’ve become aware of the American perspective on race and how its used to maintain the machine, the “do good” image of the Asian is quite handy to gloss up a white patriarchy and make generations of segregation, brutality and overt prejudice seem unimportant. This is the main or probably the only reason why its OK for white men to be with Asian women..to an extent. So I guess I’m not surprised that you made such a blanket statement about Asian women. This country has beginnings of overt discrimination, its still largely imbalanced (and blacks were the minority group who kicked and shouted about it the most and the people who don’t want to “lose their country” don’t like that) and its now a very impersonal society who’s never really took a good look in the mirror and its residents cannot avoid the media in all its forms and all its poisonous messages about how bad it is to be black especially for a woman. Without these quiet kicks in the face, white supremacy will not work!
LikeLike
^^^
Gen’s comment is the truth.
I have also noticed that. Outside of the US, black/white relationships usually are composed of BW/WM.
Except in the US (and perhaps, the UK). Very interesting.
LikeLike
“I have also noticed that. Outside of the US, black/white relationships usually are composed of BW/WM.
Except in the US (and perhaps, the UK). Very interesting.”
I live in America and have NEVER seen a white man with a black woman in all of my 28 years of living.
For some reason, I still find it hard to believe when people say it is much ‘better’ in Canada, United Kingdom, or any other European countries.
I think the damage from the past in America is well done to the point to which it cannot and will never be overcome.
This country was embedded with racism, and it will only continue to sprout from the seeds that were sown.
I’ve been to a few Interracial dating sites, and I ask myself of how many of these people ACTUALLY go on to date or marry. I tend to think few as by witnessing the minuscule amount of evidence before me.
Is this really worth it? Am I wasting my time trying to ‘find’ a black woman? It’s rather frustrating especially where I live which contains hardly any IR couples.
This question I continue to ponder, and unfortunately for me, I fear this is a big waste of time. I know I am interested, but I have been waiting out from others because of this.
Sorry for the ranting here, I just feel I have some frustrations in need of venting.
Az
LikeLike
I find it difficult to believe you’ve never seen a WM/BW relationship, even casually. I was married to two WM. Besides my husbands, I have dated one BM. I’m not sure why I don’t meet the kind of black men I grew up with.
I have dated, almost exclusively, white men for the last 10 years. Most WM who date BM are older, self-assured and professionally secure.
LikeLike
I have a few friends dating and married to bw. I do know that their is a some resistance to interacial relationships, but most of the men and women of my aquaintence do not care they look to the person not the color of skin. As we all should
LikeLike
Luna:
I have no reason to lie.
“Most WM who date BM are older, self-assured and professionally secure.”
I don’t pay attention to white men who date black men.
LikeLike
Luna:
I have no reason to lie.
“Most WM who date BM are older, self-assured and professionally secure.”
I don’t pay attention to white men who date black men.
I do agree with you, but do you not mean BW Instead of BM
LikeLike
oops! Make that Black women
LikeLike
I thought it was a mistake but I wanted to be sure.
I spent a lot of time with people from all races and worked with people from all races. I do not judge a person by his or her skin color. I was raised to judge a person by their actions and attitudes. I have always thought of myself as a typical american
LikeLike
Just thought of another question.
Before I do Abagond I have to ask you something.
Would you consider letting us put a picture of ourselves here online? I know this isn’t a dating site, but it would be nice to see those who I am talking to. (Well,if they decide to anyway.)
Just a thought Abagond thanks!!
Anyway, my question was:
Do Black women view us White men as an ‘option’?
I always hear, ‘not enough black men’ or ‘black men chasing all the white women’….for the most part it is just not true.
I guess blacks being the minority, they in certain instances decide to open up to other races for that instance.
My main concern is:
I don’t want a black woman to view me as her option. I am nobody’s option, and I see the option factor as an act of desperation?
Correct me if I am wrong here. I’m not trying to rattle any bones, I just enjoy learning from others.
How do I tell if a black woman has a TRUE, HONEST and SINCERE attraction to a white man?
I can say I have a TRUE, HONEST, and SINCERE attraction to black women. (Although I haven’t always been interested while opening myself up within the past year, hence the questions…lol)
I want it to be mutual. I know how I feel towards black women, but I want solidification that the black woman I may be with or meet sometime has the same exact feel.
Of course nobody wants to be viewed as an option, many black women may be frustrated because white men aren’t or won’t open up to them esp. from the media and stereotypes.
I have the same feelings in seeking out true love from physical attraction to white men, as well as everything I can provide for her and she for I.
Sorry, some of these questions may be stupid but for me it is necessary esp. when I am brand new to this.
I appreciate all of your feedback, especially from black women.
Thanks!
LikeLike
Azrazyel, we are all viewed as “options” being treated as one is a different deal I believe lol but I get your point though. True, honest and sincere attraction is left to how the two people handle it but, and this is a big BUT (and this is my personal experience) keep an eye out for racial objectification, the minute someone starts talking about their bad experiences simply to lay groundwork to make sweeping generalizations about X group to express why or how much they’re “into you” that’s a big fat red flag.
LikeLike
Azrazyel:
A post I wrote that might help you somewhat:
LikeLike
Thanks Abagond.
It did help me a little bit.
Now if I can only get clear perception from black women, I think the issue at hand will help me out quite a bit.
In the end, it’s learning tools of things I need to be aware of of what to do, not to do and what to avoid and not to avoid.
Thanks again.
LikeLike
Azrazyel,
If I may be so bold as to answer your question:
Black women are under INTENSE pressure not to “date out”. Truly. When a black woman says that there are “not enough black men” what she’s REALLY saying is, “This monoracial dating system sucks. I’m going to quit following these outdated rules and date whomever I like.”
But she’s not allowed to say that because then she’d be viewed as a traitor. So, she makes excuses instead. “Do you know how many black men are incarcerated?” “Black men are all dating white women so why shouldn’t I date white men?” Etc., etc., etc. She has to have a concrete, measurable, statistically-based reason. She’s not allowed to just say, “There’s this cute white guy in accounting that I really like. He seems nice.” Liking him and being attracted to him are not reason enough to “date out”. And it seems the pressure is higher the more “high status” the woman is (highly educated, good-looking, wealthy, etc.).
I’m married to a German man and I get asked by black people why I “married a white guy”. Sometimes followed by the traditional, “What, black guys aren’t good enough for you?” I have the believable excuse that I was living in Germany for 10 years and black men where in short supply. Although I have gotten the (ridiculous) reply that I should have flown back to the US on vacation every year because they were “sure a black man would want me”. As in, a black man, ANY black man, is better than a quality white man, and I just didn’t try hard enough.
My black cousin is married to a white American man and she gets ribbed about it all of the time. He’s wealthy, as well, so she gets the “Wow, you married money, huh?” comments all of the time.
The fact that both of us fell in love with our husbands strikes them as being “not enough of a reason” to actually marry them. They make allowances for me because I was out of the country and for her because he’s rich enough to make up for his being white. But I think they see it as us “rejecting” black men and therefore the entire black race.
It is sad, but that’s the truth.
LikeLike
In Black American culture women are view as the center of family life. Blacks are less likely to criticize a black man for exercising his option to “date out” than a black woman. Traditionally it is the eldest woman who makes decisions for the family she creates and the family she is born into.
However if a woman is brave enough to be who she is — making the decision to follow her heart, to make the choice, to find a man whose values mirror hers — there are no “excuses.” She is secure in the choice she has made.
My family has never questioned my choices in racial terms. I am part hippie/part money-grubbing-capitalist. They just don’t know what to make me. They just learned accept what they don’t always understand. I think my life choices have helped them open up to things they may not have considered before.
LikeLike
Black&German and Luna: Excellent comments! Men are seen more as loose cannons so their decisions are less questioned.
LikeLike
I think the term “loose cannon” is a bit strong. But Black America tends to be more than a bit matriarchal.
LikeLike
exception to the rule: white men who have grown up in a black community & have many black friends or come from a not so middle class background. i’m sure if they went for a woman of colour they would have different expectations.
But ofcourse white men from a middle class background would prefer a classy & well spoken black women that is acquainted with a lot of white people. eg. Iman.
I actually disagree that white men prefer thin black women. there are men that prefer curves in women of all races & some white men that like curves (eg. curvy bum) on a white women would like them on a black women too.
but they do seem to be particular when it comes to facial features. they go the woman with the cute or pretty face. whereas black men seem to care more about the body or like a woman that shows more skin.
in regards to your pictures I think that whilst not that many white men would go for a bria myles type. i think that sade is seen as beauty to men of all races. i think that white men would also like phylicia rashad.
LikeLike
Luna,
I had to laugh at your description of yourself. I’m a homemaking, capitalist, homeschooling, software engineer, organic gardening, bread-baking, ballerina. Perhaps my inherent weirdness is another reason they make allowances for me.
My cousin’s like that, too. We’re both so strange that they just shake their heads at us and figure we’re a lost cause. LOL!
LikeLike
anonymous:
I would think that white men would go for Phylicia Rashad and Sade, but I have noticed that they rarely comment on their beauty unlike, say, Halle, Beyonce and Tyra. Or Iman.
And it is not just my imagination either: of the lists of beautiful women that you see on the Web, Sade and Rashad appear on lists made by blacks but almost never on those made by whites. (More on that here: https://abagond.wordpress.com/2009/02/09/the-most-beautiful-black-women-according-to-black-people/ ).
What makes it even stranger is that neither woman acts one bit “ghetto”, the thing white men always complain about.
LikeLike
I don’t want a black woman to view me as her option. I am nobody’s option, and I see the option factor as an act of desperation?
Correct me if I am wrong here. I’m not trying to rattle any bones, I just enjoy learning from others.
**********************************
The belief of options has to be reciprocal in that a White man will see Black women as just a viable option as he would an Asian or Hispanic women which have the highest out marriage rates to White partners. I don’t see it as Black women condescending to date White men because their options are limited within their own race, but the fact that economically (since they may be making more money and as noted before have a lot of exposure interacting with White people) Black women may exercise their ability to broaden their choices just as Black men have been doing for far longer and as do White men who have done with impunity for centuries in either dating younger and younger women or to select women from races who they deem represent their ideas of femininity. Again Black women are told that they have to be proactive and assertive in what they want since we don’t have the same protection mechanisms that other groups of women automatically expect and enjoy.
In addition you have to take into consider the generation gap—a White man won’t see a Black woman as an option in his 30’s and 40’s because of the stigma of wanting to carry on his name and genetic lineage with someone White. From what I observed, Men in their twenties (who may not have the same toxic racial history) and men over 50 who have raised their White family etc, may be more open to exploiting their options with a Black woman—who is usually far younger than he is and usually he is averse to having and or raising more children. Again black/white pairings—i.e. marriages are still very rare because of societal pressure put on by Whites—I have seen that it is a less of a stigma for Black men or Black women because usually it is seen as economically and socially advantageous move up when marrying white.
Thus the burden of Black women using their options to get with White men because their dating pool is low is totally and completely false and all those empowerment sites and articles that tout that White men are the be end to a happy relationship because their own race sucks is nothing more than fetishism—which is no better than the comments under this: http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2008/01/20/11-asian-girls/ ..
LikeLike
I strongly disagree:
“…men over 50 who have raised their White family etc, may be more open to exploiting their options with a Black woman—who is usually far younger than he is and usually he is averse to having and or raising more children.”
As a woman closing in on 50 at break-neck speed I am not exploited. The men I’ve date, and I do mean DATED (not kept under a bushel) have post-graduate educations and at the pinnacle of their professions. As the woman in their lives we are quite public in our relationship. I am typically introduced to his children and colleagues.
LikeLike
It’s true that BW/WM marriages increase with age, but I guess I always assumed that the reason was that the older you get, the better BW look in comparison to most WW (as they age better).
And the marriages also increase with education, which I assume has to do with simple proximity. The more educated you are, the more integrated your work environment will be.
And perhaps older people are just more independent; they aren’t as swayed by others’ opinions.
LikeLike
White men who date black women have fewer perceived repercussions. The no longer worry about what the senior partners will react. They are the senior partner. They are less inhibited over all. That is just a part of the aging process. By the time I’m 70 I’m expecting my family to chant the refrain, “Well, you know how she is,” with greater regularity. And most important, your have a better sense of what’s important. Happiness is not hinged on skin color or hair texture.
LikeLike
Wow guys thanks for the comments!!!
This is a great learning process for me and I am pleased to hear all of your input.
I understand what you mean when you say:
“Black women are under INTENSE pressure not to “date out”. Truly. When a black woman says that there are “not enough black men” what she’s REALLY saying is, “This monoracial dating system sucks. I’m going to quit following these outdated rules and date whomever I like.”
“But she’s not allowed to say that because then she’d be viewed as a traitor. So, she makes excuses instead. “Do you know how many black men are incarcerated?” “Black men are all dating white women so why shouldn’t I date white men?” Etc., etc., etc.”
“She has to have a concrete, measurable, statistically-based reason. She’s not allowed to just say, “There’s this cute white guy in accounting that I really like. He seems nice.” Liking him and being attracted to him are not reason enough to “date out”.”
Before I really became fully interested, if someone would ask me if I would date a black woman I would think they were crazy.
But deep down inside I didn’t want to just say YES I am interested because of the fear of retribution from others. I in some ways felt embarrassed to just say so because I know some of my friends would think I was a lunatic or crazy in some way.
That has long been put to rest and I now openly say I am interested in black women as well as all races because I know TRUE love has no boundaries nonetheless restricted to my own.
If someone disagrees with my taste or outlook on love, I refuse to try and explain or change them if they aren’t willing to look at and respect my point of views.
I just wish black women would just come out and say they are interested in white men, regardless of what others may think or say.
Maybe that is a reason why white men may not be so open, because black women won’t just stand up and say yes I am interested?
We don’t have any idea if they are interested in us. Especially when you hear the terms ‘not enough black men’ ‘white women taking all the black men’ stop beating around the bush and just say YES I AM INTERESTED!
Some of us white men need concrete evidence, I am SURE if black women OPENLY stated interest in white men surely you will see more of US open up as well.
Quit being afraid of others. State what you like and maybe things will become easier for both sides.
BTW, I am not yelling…lol…..I am just trying to tell black women to just SAY what they WANT, and not ENCODE it in ‘not enough’ or ‘white women’ taking black men.
I am telling you as a white man, those statements seem to stem from desperation. That’s what I see it as, I’m sure many other white males feel the same way of course which IS a turnoff.
Please find the strength within yourself and OPENLY state you are interested in US.
I certainly did, and once I did it felt so much better to let loose my true inner feelings…..
Thanks again guys for your comments.
VERY informative and influential for me.
LikeLike
Mayhue says,
In addition you have to take into consideration the generation gap—a White man won’t see a Black woman as an option in his 30’s and 40’s because of the stigma of wanting to carry on his name and genetic lineage with someone White. From what I observed, Men in their twenties (who may not have the same toxic racial history) and men over 50 who have raised their White family etc, may be more open to exploiting their options with a Black woman—who is usually far younger than he is and usually he is averse to having and or raising more children. Again black/white pairings—i.e. marriages are still very rare because of societal pressure put on by Whites—I have seen that it is a less of a stigma for Black men or Black women because usually it is seen as economically and socially advantageous move up when marrying white.
laromana says,
My life experiences with American WM really bear out the facts you’ve noted above. Although there are SOME BW in America who are finding SOME WM who are NOT AFRAID to SERIOUSLY DATE and MARRY BW, this is still an EXCEPTION and NOT the rule for MOST American WM. Hopefully, as the trend towards MORE American WM OPENLY/SERIOUSLY DATING and MARRYING BW GROWS, BW/WM IRR’S will become more mainstream instead of being a rarity.
Below I want to share a comment posted by a BW on a PRO-BW Empowerment blog(who was approached by an older, married WM for a “mistress” IRR), that also supports the truths you’ve stated above. Even though the WM in this example is married, there are other American WM who reject SERIOUS DATING and MARRIAGE relationships with BW due to ANTI-BW COWARDICE (or ANTI-BW RACISM) when they are in their prime, marriageable years and then expect BW to agree to be in relationships with them when they are OLDER, have raised their White families, and don’t have to face any “NEGATIVE CONSEQUENCES” for this type of relationship.
BW RESPONDING TO AN OLDER WM LOOKING FOR A “RELATIONSHIP” WITH HER:
“You probably think I should be honored that you want to get with me. That I should be complimented by your interest. Well let me tell you something. I’m not complimented.
-You are a typical white guy – an ANTI-BW COWARD. And do you want to know why you are?? Because you didn’t have the COURAGE to go after what you really wanted and you did the acceptable thing, you took the easy way out which is to date and then marry the acceptable white woman.
-And now that you are married and unhappy you want your black fantasy (on the side). Well guess what? That’s not going to happen.
-I DON’T pursue OTHER WOMEN’S MEN and I
DON’T WANT a relationship with an ANTI-BW COWARD.
-I’m a woman who IS GOOD ENOUGH for a man to date, take out to dinner, and introduce to his family. I’m not going to be ANY MAN’S little secret.
-Sadly, you may find a BW who is willing to be kept on the side and fufill every fantasy you’ve ever had, BUT I am NOT that chick.”
LikeLike
I’m beginning to think I may be a better judgment of men than most. My experience with white men has been contrary to many of you. I am the one pressured by the men in my life to be introduced to my family.
I’ve not ashamed of the men I date. My parents don’t get dating for simple companionship. The believe each relationship is a precursor to marriage. I am not in marriage mode. So avoid the family speculation game.
LikeLike
Azrazyel,
There is a difference in the way MOST AA BW have been taught to view IRR with WM and the way NON-AA BW (eg. African, Afro Hispanic, Carribean, etc.) view these relationships.
There have ALWAYS been SOME AA BW and MANY NON-AA BW in America who prefer WM or are open to BW/WM IRR’s but have NOT been able to find MANY WM who want to SERIOUSLY DATE and/or MARRY BW because MOST of these WM have either been ANTI-BW COWARDS or ANTI-BW RACISTS.
As MORE American WM CHANGE the NEGATIVE way they view/treat BW and become MORE OPEN to SERIOUSLY DATING and/or MARRYING BW, these relaionships will become EASIER to ESTABLISH/MORE MAINSTREAM.
LikeLike
Abagond can you do a post sometimes on older white men who marry ww, have kids, divorce and then think they can get young bw in their 20s
LikeLike
I agree totally laromana!!!
I’m guessing it’s the white man’s fault for this perception?
Hence the reason why most may not be or may not say OPENLY that they are interested.
I guess it’s ignorance upon many white males to believe these stereotypes as true. Of course these stereotypes are quite unattractive to many white men especially when they don’t take the time to see if it is really true or not.
I think these white males see the media perception and say ‘yuck, that’s how it really is????’ without even delving deeper to find the TRUE facts of complete falsehood.
I don’t really know if white men will ever change their ways of thinking, let alone the interest to find a way to prove it false.
It’s pretty saddening if you ask me…..
LikeLike
“I am telling you as a white man, those statements seem to stem from desperation.”
Less desperation than exasperation, I think. But I understand you completely, nobody wants to be seen as a last resort.
“Please find the strength within yourself and OPENLY state you are interested in US… I certainly did, and once I did it felt so much better to let loose my true inner feelings…”
Perhaps the strength simply came with maturity and experience? With a stronger general sense of self-confidence?
It’s a bit like coming out of the closet, isn’t it? As if BW and WM were seperate species. As if there were something distinctly unnatural in the attraction.
Now do you see why this pairing is such a hot topic?
LikeLike
Yes I completely understand you.
Thanks for the insight.
LikeLike
I think it depends on your age. I’m in my 20’s (well, 20 :-P) and IR dating have never been a big deal to me, my family, or my friends. They always call me the “white-boy magnet,” but they say it in admiration (not the best word, but you know what I mean), not in malice.
I think environment plays a role too. The university I attend is only 2% Black, and 1/2 of those Black people are athletes, most of whom date White girls (I don’t have a problem with that, but I think a lot of them do it for the wrong reasons). Some of my friends are resistant to IR dating, but I’ve told a few that realistically, the number of Black men is only going to decrease as we get older, so waiting on a Black man probably isn’t the best idea.
I don’t see White guys as a last resort; I like all kinds. But I agree that for some the stigma is there, and (some) Black women have just as many bad stereotypes of White men as vice versa.
Azrazyel,
While I understand that you want a clearer signal, one thing to keep in mind is that tradition mandates that the man be the one to approach, especially for Black women. We are used to the more aggressive approach from Black men, so when White men (who tend to be more timid) are interested, sometimes we don’t notice. Plus, women like a confident man. You will get farther, on average, just going for it (respectfully) rather than dropping oblique hints. I know I hate when guys do that!
LikeLike
Jasmin:
Thanks for the comments.
The problem doesn’t lie within white men (being the man) typically having to approach a black woman.
The REAL problem is obvious….Black and White.
I have NO problem approaching white women, but it is a racial hurdle that wherein lies the problem.
Do you get my drift?
It is easy to say, and YES I agree, the man typically does the approaching, but when it comes to a black woman it is a WHOLE different ballgame.
I shouldn’t have to explain why.
I know many white men, I am sure, think and feel the exact thing as I. I will NEVER approach a black woman. That is why I joined a dating site for this in particular.
White men CAN’T just start approaching black women out of the blue, which is the reason why we have these discussions, and the reason why black women say things as:
“Well, he smiled at me and said hi, but that was it?????”
Obviously, black women need to approach just AS much as white men should.
If nobody ever makes a move, nobody will ever know what could have been…..
Have a nice day.
Az
LikeLike
Oh one more thing Jasmin:
Why are your friends so hesitant to date IR?
This might be a dumb question, but I was just curious for the reasoning of their own individual perceptions of it.
Thanks!
LikeLike
Azrazyel said:
I have NO problem approaching white women, but it is a racial hurdle that wherein lies the problem.
Do you get my drift?
It is easy to say, and YES I agree, the man typically does the approaching, but when it comes to a black woman it is a WHOLE different ballgame.
I shouldn’t have to explain why.
No, please do explain. Until this moment I just assumed white men were being racists or cowards because nothing else I knew made sense of their behaviour.
LikeLike
Laromana I knew you would understand where I was coming from. This phenomena I have witnessed a few times and it has nothing about picking men badly but has everything to do with the man’s sense of entitlement. And this is especially true if the White man is in his 50’s and is no longer beholden to disapproving relatives or angry children and has either raised his white family or is divorced and will actively look for a younger and financially self sufficient black woman who won’t really need him. It strokes his ego and white privilege and he get the opportunity to deep into the fountain of youth without having to try very hard if it was a white woman.
Obviously, black women need to approach just AS much as white men should.
If nobody ever makes a move, nobody will ever know what could have been…..
Totally disagree. That’s not the Black Woman’s problem–that is the White or non-Black man’s problem.
So social convention has to be interpreted differently for Black women but no one else. White men have no problems approaching and signaling to Asian, hispanic, and white women their interest, thus why is it any different for Black women. I have seen white men approach Asian women who could barely speak English and there is no common culture to bind them other than she looks good—so how are Black Woman, especially black Women who are raised, typically in the same culture of a White American man any different. If a white man can honestly see a Black woman without viewing it through racism or that she is automatically deemed ugly, who meets his expectations on what he is looking for then I see no reason why it is an extra challenge to approach a suitable looking, intelligent Black woman.
Black women are already seen as overly aggressive, pushy, ball busting Sapphires who are rude and ghetto, no matter what she present to the contrary so chasing after a white man who shows half hearted interests, defeats the whole purpose and merely confirms the stereotype that other races have of Black women.
And in most cases, a Man usually respects the woman more if he puts in a little effort to get her attention.
LikeLike
Mayhue, you read my mind.
LikeLike
“No, please do explain. Until this moment I just assumed white men were being racists or cowards because nothing else I knew made sense of their behaviour.”
Abagond, you seem very smart hence why you created this topic.
I don’t know if I should take your question as a serious one or just being sarcastic.
What do you want me to explain? I already did in my previous post. Everything else pertaining to that was obvious with no further explanation.
Mayhue:
I respect your points of views. Apparently, we are totally on two different subjects.
My point is this:
White men have NO problem approaching white (obviously our own race) Asian or Latina women because there is NO history of racism, slavery, beatings, rape, murder, hanging etc. etc. to the extent that we dealt to blacks long ago.
That is MY perception because MANY of US white men still feel the scars from the past, therefore the fear factor of us approaching you is overwhelming, to say the least.
It is NOT typical for us to just walk up to you, as it is when we look for Asian, Latina, Cuban whatever type of women.
My point should be clearly obvious, RACISM is CLEAR and ALIVE to this day. 150 years later is is still breathing.
As I said, men typically approach the women BUT, in this case, black women HAVE to openly state their interest just as much as I and some other white males do.
It’s pathetic that I have to use a dating site to find a black woman. Why can’t I just approach one without all the negatives that I think in my head while trying to do so?
Please tell me I am not insane. Why do so MANY white men AND black women resort to dating sites to find love with one another?
If it WAS so easy, why have these dating sites to begin with?
C’mon now, I know and you seem like a smart lady, but I just can’t understand or grasp why you cannot see my point of view?
IF it was so easy, would you think it WOULD be more common, we WOULDN’T have to have dating sites, we WOULDN’T have to have blogs like this?
This is a good approach for black women and white men to connect through websites because I am SURE it is just as hard for THEM as I.
Have a good day
LikeLike
Azrazyel:
I am not being sarcastic, not one bit. And no, that last sentence was not sarcastic either.
If I follow your reasoning, then White American men should have no trouble asking out West Indian and African women – just Black American women. Is that true? If not, why not?
LikeLike
good point abagond…good point. I think white men should approach bw first like they would any other race. Why shoud WE have to go out of our way because some wm have bad thoughts pertaining to bw because of a bad history, the history that really was not our fault to begin with…no…you approach us if you’re interested like you would any other woman…otherwise you just look like a coward. Also what are bw going to do, what’s the worst that’s going to happen??She’ll say no…move on. I’m sure wm have been rejected by ww before was it the end of the world? What are we going to do put a voodoo curse on you for asking us out?? Spank you…come on. I don’t mean to be mean, but that’s just my thoughts…
LikeLike
Azrazyel Says:
I agree totally laromana!!!
I’m guessing it’s the white man’s fault for this perception?
Hence the reason why most may not be or may not say OPENLY that they are interested.
-I guess it’s ignorance upon many white males to believe these stereotypes as true. Of course these stereotypes are quite unattractive to many white men especially when they don’t take the time to see if it is really true or not.
-I think these white males see the media perception and say ‘yuck, that’s how it really is????’ without even delving deeper to find the TRUE facts of complete falsehood.
laromana says,
Thanks for acknowledging these critical TRUTHS. This is the first step to understanding the ABNORMAL DYNAMICS that OFTEN affect BW/WM IRR’s in America and helping to CHANGE/IMPROVE them.
LikeLike
Azrazyel Says:
It is easy to say, and YES I agree, the man typically does the approaching, but when it comes to a black woman it is a WHOLE different ballgame.
I shouldn’t have to explain why.
I know many white men, I am sure, think and feel the exact thing as I. I will NEVER approach a black woman. That is why I joined a dating site for this in particular.
White men CAN’T just start approaching black women out of the blue, which is the reason why we have these discussions, and the reason why black women say things as:
“Well, he smiled at me and said hi, but that was it?????”
Obviously, black women need to approach just AS much as white men should.
laromana says,
This mindset demonstrates ANTI-BW RACISM/COWARDICE.
BW (LIKE WOMEN OF ANY RACE) DESERVE to be APPROACHED FIRST by WM who are interested in them, REGARDLESS OF NEGATIVE PAST HISTORY. Expecting BW to HAVE TO APPROACH WM FIRST, (when WM don’t expect NON-BW to do so) is DISRESPECTFUL to BW and shows that you think BW are “SECOND CLASS” WOMEN/HUMAN BEINGS.
SOME American WM have learned how to approach BW (EXACTLY THE SAME WAY THEY APPROACH NON-BW) and you should do the same.
LikeLike
laromana:
How am I being racist by NOT wanting to approach first.
So I am racist? Are you kidding me? What an insult!
I have my reasons for what I say, apparently I can’t do so without being mentioned as a racist or coward.
Now I see why I don’t do it to begin with…..
LikeLike
It comes off as racist or cowardly because the man always approaches first. Black women are WOMEN, not men, not some kind of third sex (blomen?) or beings from outer space.
LikeLike
Nowhere did I mention that, Abagond!
So not only am I a racist/bigot/coward….
Now I am considering them as third sex and creatures from outer space.
Oh boy…..why do I bother…..
LikeLike
I am not trying to offend you, but tell you how you are coming off. Warning you. You never SAID that black women are not women but you are ACTING LIKE IT by not approaching them first, by expecting them to meet you half way.
LikeLike
Sometimes life takes sacrifices. Not always do MEN need to be the ones.
Why is it that I have been approached FIRST by white and Asian women, but NEVER a black woman?
They are just as guilty as I am.
I see it as hypocrisy when someone blames ME for not ALWAYS making the first move, when THEY do the same EXACT thing in return.
I have stated before that men typically do the approaching first…..
NEVER have I had a black woman approach me or nonetheless, show interest in any way.
I guess I shall remain in guilt because of what I believe pertaining to the issue at hand.
LikeLike
Azrazyel: You have a personal hangup. You need to get over it. I’m a WM, happily married to a BW for many years. Before meeting my wife I dated numerous BW.
There is nothing special about me. I’m a mid-western white guy, a bit nerdy, somewhat shy and self conscious. As a man you just have to learn to get past that fear of rejection.
Certainly when approaching BW you will encounter some who would not consider dating WM at all — an additional level of rejection that might not exist with other races. It doesn’t take too much effort or time to figure that part out on an individual basis and, if that’s the case, move on.
There are in my experience a lot of BW willing to date, or even affirmatively interested in dating a WM if they sense that his aim is true. BW are in my opinion the most beautiful women in general. Among them you will find many who are witty, insightful, kind, interesting and fun to be with. That presupposes that you view them as whole individual human beings, not as some mysterious, exotic other.
LikeLike
Blanc2:
Thanks for the insight.
I’m not so much afraid of rejection compared to the humiliation of getting denied by a black woman. I see it much differently being rejected by a black woman than anyone else, obviously.
Most aren’t interested in white men so why bother wasting my time publicly pursuing one when I have dating sites that I affirmatively know they are interested.
Yes it is me, I won’t publicly pursue one when I know the rejection rate will be 90%.
It would be a waste of my time as well as embarrassment to just stay with dating sites specializing in what I look for.
I personally feel much more comfortable that way.
Plus most of the black women where I live are ghetto anyway. It’s a rarity to find someone down to earth and a good head on their shoulders with a great outlook on life and positive aspirations and goals.
I know not all black women are ghetto, but where I reside, nobody here is worth my time even just to look at.
I suppose I need to be around down to earth black women who I feel suitable for me, but where may that be? They are non-existent where I live.
Sorry about the stereotypes, but I know what I see and it just doesn’t pertain to black folks either. Everyone has stereotypes ranging from a variety of things.
I just so mention black women here since this is the subject at hand.
LikeLike
I find this all so interesting. It’s time people stop seeing relationships in racial terms.
Here’s the problem with many white men and black women: We see eacj other as cultural object to be “handled.” We forget thsty we are simply indivivduals in search of love and acceptance.
Much of what I’ve read in recent posts amounts to nothing more than political posturing. Yes, there is racism. Yes, there are those who seek to exploit others. And, yes, IR dating/mating/marriages are frot with outside pressure.
Bottom line: YOU, as individuals, chart your own relationships. It isn’t “society.” WE ARE SOCIETY! If you’re looking for real change, look from within. That’s where real change begins.
LikeLike
abagond. sade & phylicia rashad were more know about in the 80’s so i think thats why white people don’t really include them in modern beautiful or sexiest lists. from looking on amiannoying.com sade was featured on some lists in the past.they are generally not as well known to guys younger than 22 as much as say beyonce is.
http://www.amiannoying.com/(S(g51lnwamfwwyfc55n3lprlu3))/view.aspx?ID=961
LikeLike
Azrayel: First of all what is ghetto? But, fine I’ll empathize with the fact that yes most bw don’t date wm, so you’re afraid of being rejected repeatedly…fine. But do you know how insulting it sounds when you say that black women who do consider wm appealing should approach white men first when most of the time hispanic,asian and white women are cool to approach. Last I checked ww didn’t accept a date from every wm who approached them nor asian or hispanic. There are plenty of Hispanic women who don’t date wm. Are you just as insulted by their not accepting your proposition as you are to bw. Its’ insulting and condescending to say bw should approach first…guess what most wm don’t date bw…so why should we have to approach…lol. You’re the men, we’re the women why do we have to assume the role of man…again…why do we always have to sacrifice our femininity to appease others…??? Tired of it…
LikeLike
Azrazyel says,
I have NO problem approaching white women, but it is a racial hurdle that wherein lies the problem.
Do you get my drift?
It is easy to say, and YES I agree, the man typically does the approaching, but when it comes to a black woman it is a WHOLE different ballgame.
I shouldn’t have to explain why.
laromana says,
Please REREAD what you said above. It is these statements that CREATE THE PERCEPTION that you aren’t willing to approach BW IN THE SAME MANNER that you are NON-BW.
It is YOU who are attaching DIFFERENT EXPECTATIONS to initiating contact with BW, SOLELY BECAUSE THEY ARE BW, and THIS IS RACIST.
abagond Says:
-I am not trying to offend you, but tell you how you are coming off. Warning you. You never SAID that black women are not women but you are ACTING LIKE IT by not approaching them first, by expecting them to meet you half way.
laromana Says,
Thanks, abagond for clarifying my point to
Azrazyel.
Blanc2 Says (CAPS inserted by laromana for clarity),
Azrazyel:
-You have a PERSONAL HANGUP. You NEED TO GET OVER IT.
-As a MAN you just have to LEARN to get past that FEAR OF REJECTION.
-There are in my experience a LOT of BW WILLING to date, or even AFFIRMATIVELY INTERESTED in dating a WM IF they SENSE HIS AIM IS TRUE.
-That PRESUPPOSES that YOU VIEW THEM as WHOLE INDIVIDUAL HUMAN BEINGS, NOT as some MYSTERIOUS, EXOTIC OTHER.
laromana Says,
Blanc2,
Thanks for your excellent clarification of the REAL ISSUES Azrazyel needs to face if he is to relate properly/positively with BW.
Azrazyel Says,
-I’m not so much afraid of rejection compared to the humiliation of getting denied by a black woman. I see it much differently being rejected by a black woman than anyone else, obviously.
laromana Says,
Azrazyel,
Why is rejection from BW so different TO YOU from rejection from NON-BW? Why is the RACE of a BW who rejects you an ISSUE if it isn’t when a NON-BW rejects you.
Azrazyel Says,
-Most aren’t interested in white men so why bother wasting my time publicly pursuing one when I have dating sites that I affirmatively know they are interested.
-Yes it is me, I won’t publicly pursue one when I know the rejection rate will be 90%.
laromana Says,
Why are you making these GENERALIZATIONS about ALL BW when several of us on this post have told you that your ASSUMPTIONS are UNTRUE?
Why are you willing to RISK pursuing NON-BW, whether or not they reject you, but you’re NOT WILLING to DO THE SAME for BW?
Why are you MAKING RACE AN ISSUE when it comes to pursuing BW(and POSSIBLY being rejected by them) but you DON’T MAKE RACE AN ISSUE when it comes to pursuing (or being rejected by) NON-BW?
When you review ALL of your comments on this post about how you view BW/interacting with BW, it appears as if you DON’T consider BW NORMAL, INDIVIDUAL HUMAN BEINGS like you do NON-BW.
By making PRESUMPTUOS, NEGATIVE GENERALIZATIONS about BW, YOU make yourself APPEAR to be an ANTI-BW RACIST/COWARD.
LikeLike
I give up!!!!
Apparently, NOBODY sees my points of view of what I feel and think. Everyone wants to criticize what I have to say to further subdue me into trepidation.
Maybe this isn’t for me after all.
I am glad I realized this so I can move on and not having wasted my time in pursuing one.
I am SURE my mind will be at ease because I can apparently see this is a much bigger deal than I previously thought.
There is NO way I see myself living in peace especially when others disregard my perceptions which leads me to believe…
What am I THINKING??????
Take care
LikeLike
Besides,
Why make it difficult for myself when the quantity of black women is few, and the quality I seek is that much less?
So much more to choose from in other races.
Thank you for helping me realize that.
LikeLike
Azrazyel,
The (unspoken) consensus among my Black female friends who are hesitant to IR date seems to be that they don’t believe White guys are interested in them (or maybe Black women in general, at times). One of my friends basically said to me, “Well, White guys like you but they wouldn’t be interested in me.” For some, I think it’s where they are from, and I’m sure prior rejection would play a role in that too.
LikeLike
A BW is a human being. You approach a BW exactly the same way you approach any other human being — with respect and humility, plus a playful show of interest if the interest is genuine. A sense of humor helps. This is not rocket science. If socially awkward Blanc2 can figure this out, anybody can.
Based on what I see, Azrazyel regards BW as something other than human. He has an irrational hangup about this — perhaps it’s more accurate to call it a fetish. I pity any BW who finds herself entangled with this guy. Guys like Azrazyel were part of the reason guys like Blanc2 (when single) encountered BW who were soured on WM.
IMHO, his posts resonate with sentiments scarily similar to those in the blog entries of that punk who shot up that women’s yoga class in Philly.
LikeLike
Azrazyel Says:
Why make it difficult for myself when the quantity of black women is few, and the quality I seek is that much less?
laromana Says,
MOST of your comments about BW on this post are CONDESCENDING, INSULTING, RACIST, and ANTI-BW and DESERVE to be CRITICIZED.
Dont’ INSULT OUR INTELLIGENCE by PRETENDING that we “don’t understand you” because we’re critical of your NEGATIVE, ANTI-BW comments.
You have a pretty EXALTED opinion of YOURSELF and a LOW opinion of BW and until THAT CHANGES, you’re not going to find ANY BW (regardless of “quality or quantity”) who will be willing to be in a relationship with you.
BW DESERVE to be pursued by QUALITY MEN OF ANY RACE who will RESPECT their HUMANITY, DIGNITY, and FEMININITY.
LikeLike
Woah…azrazyel…calm down. Its understandable that in your mind, you feel the chances of a bw accepting your proposition is slim because most bw don’t date wm…fine. Therefore you don’t want to be rejected repeatedly by bw…I think we get that. But firstly the way you phrased your opinion was highly offensive. Now, if you had said something along the lines of: “I am attracted to black women, but it seems that many black women aren’t as open to me, being a white man. So its easier for me to be in an atmosphere where I know bw are receptive to wm and vice versa. In my experience the best place to find this atmosphere is on dating sites…” That’s all you had to say, something along those lines. Saying that you would NEVER specifically approach a bw and then state in the same phrase however I would approach a non-bw is highly offensive. It makes it sound like your putting non-bw on a pedestal and expect bw to come beg for attention and we get enough of that from the people who don’t like us. We don’t need from the people who claim they like us to…
LikeLike
Also to add insult to injury. You’re going to let the opinion of a few black women on a blog sour your opinion of black women as a whole…??
“Apparently, NOBODY sees my points of view of what I feel and think. Everyone wants to criticize what I have to say to further subdue me into trepidation.Maybe this isn’t for me after all.
I am glad I realized this so I can move on and not having wasted my time in pursuing one.”
That’s what you said and that’s the exact mindset that is probably making it difficult for you to pursue a bw. We are INDIVIDUALS. We have different mindsets, opinions, we don’t all feel. think the same way. There are millions upon millions of black women in this world, we’re a diverse group of people. There are plenty of bw who like white men, you just need to treat them the way you would any other female. Also in terms of bw rejecting white men…did you ever think that part of the reason bw aren’t open to wm is because not enough wm are willing to approach bw first? (just like you said you don’t) I’m willing to bet if more wm openly pursued and approached bw respectfully more bw would eventually open up to white men and realize there is an attraction there. I wasn’t always open to white men until I realized there were some wm who desired bw. But part of what opened my eyes was the fact that wm showed interest in me and had confidence when it came to their attraction towards bw…
LikeLike
Some really good points were made in the last 15 or so comments.
Azrazyel,
It’s unfortunate that you feel ganged-up on/misunderstood/etc., but I believe people really are trying to educate you–their “harsh” words are out of frustration (because this conversation has been going on for years), not out of malice.
To sum it up (and I’m not yelling at you) when you say “I’m not so much afraid of rejection compared to the humiliation of getting denied by a black woman.“, the implied meaning is that getting a Black woman should be easy, they are on the bottom of the barrel, etc. For instance, have you ever heard someone make a similar statement regarding fat women? The idea is that the woman is somehow “less than”, and her inferiority means any guy (high-quality or low-quality) should be able to get with her. I don’t think you meant to be offensive, but that is how it came across.
The tangential issue seems to be the “to approach or not to approach” thing. It’s not that Black women go out of their way to not approach White men. I would think that a majority of women are against approaching any man. That’s just a cultural norm; I don’t think it has anything to do with race.
If you go into a new situation like IR dating filled with stereotypes and apprehension (again, I don’t think you mean to be malicious, but that doesn’t excuse how it comes across), you are only going to find evidence that affirms those stereotypes. Instead of approaching it like a science experiment (where you have to record data, seek tangible results, etc.), why not just treat it like regular dating? You win some, you lose some–more often than not if you see a consistent negative problem, it leads back to something about you (either a personal aspect or your choice in women); it’s not a grand conspiracy on the part of all of the individual women you meet.
Side note on the “ghetto” thing: If all the people you live around are ghetto, aren’t you ghetto too? It’s not like there are enclaves of middle-class housing in the projects…just a thought.
LikeLike
Like I said, I made my decision and I will stick with it.
Call me what you will, you don’t offend me and I take those words with a grain of salt.
Some things are better unknowing than unknowing.
Well, I see WHY black men leave you women is because they are fed up with the attitudes.
Hope I didn’t touch a nerve because that is what I have experienced.
Apparently, I came here for advice, NOT to get bull rushed.
Don’t hate me for my opinions. You don’t know me, you have no idea where and what kind of environment I was raised in to cause ME to have the perceptions I do.
Assume all you want. Call me a racist, coward, bigot, anti-bw, anti-black, etc. etc.
I refuse to stoop down to that level.
PATHETIC!!!
LikeLike
okay azrazyel, now I see why you get the response you do from bw supposedly… you’re doing us a favor. Nope you didn’t touch any nerves with bw, I know that much. Because I don’t have an attitude, never had problems with keep a black man either…Best wishes. Good luck with everything man…
LikeLike
*didn’t touch any nerves with this black woman
LikeLike
bunchesofoats:
You seem like the only logical person in here that I could talk to WITHOUT being scorned for my points of view.
Why do some people try and articulate their image of me?
I don’t do that and I certainly don’t want it upon me either.
As soon as I say something someone disagrees with….
1. I AM RACIST
2. I AM A BIGOT
3. I AM ANTI-BW
4. I AM ANTI-BLACK
That’s why I say I don’t or shouldn’t bother because I am called that because I am WHITE!!!
Talk about telling me to grow up?
LOOK IN THE MIRROR!!!
LikeLike
Azrazyel,
You are making much too much about all of this. A black woman is a woman.
The first time I was asked out by a white man it was so uneventful I don’t remember his name. Yes, I did accept his invitation.
BREATHE!
LikeLike
Actually I just realized your like the rest….
Which further claims my thoughts of WHY white men don’t approach you.
I figured out what I was trying to say.
LikeLike
Yes, the stereotypes are true, the media is true.
I am a FOOL for even thinking different.
LikeLike
Azrazyel I said those things because of the comment you left, which was highly rude and stereotypical. If you had been respectful, I would have given you respect, but you came crazy in your comment, so I gave you what you wanted… “I’m just like all the rest…” that is an ignorant comment…
LikeLike
“Some things are better unknowing than unknowing.
Well, I see WHY black men leave you women is because they are fed up with the attitudes.”
WHy would you make a statement like that unless you were trying to be intentionally hurtful?? If you have such a negative view of bw you’re going to negative responses back…
LikeLike
Please don’t be intentionally rude/demeaning and then get upset when you get the same back…
LikeLike
Azrazyel:
Now you’re lashing out. At no time did I EVER attack your character.
You don’t seem to understand. You see black women as something alien. We are women with hopes and dream and aspirations — just like any other woman. You choose to see us as a single organism. We are not.
Stop looking for some perfect answer. You won’t find it. If there is a woman you are sincerely interested in, persue her, woe her, make you intentions known.
Otherwise you’re engaging in an emotional masturbatory excercise in which no one is gratified. NO EVEN YOU!
LikeLike
Not trying to attack you azrazyel and maybe some of the comments may be a little harsh, but I wish you would realize how offensive some of your comments come off and that is why in turn you’re getting the harsh comments back. Black women are large, diverse group with differing opinions, we’re not all the same. To group bw all together like that is only going to be a disservice to yourself. Sorry if you’ve had bad experiences with bw, but generally you get what you put out. If you go into a situation with such negative perceptions of bw, then you’re going to get what you are looking for. Sorry…
LikeLike
I got attacked first, which is why you see a different side to me.
I have never even talked to a black woman like that in my entire life.
I guess because I am RACIST, BIGOT, ANTI-BW, ANTI-BLACK as stated in here.
It’s all because I am white do I get called racist.
I admit, my approach maybe hard to understand at times but I know what I mean. I would respectfully explain what I mean if I wasn’t called a RACIST, BIGOT, ANTI-BW, ANTI-BLACK in the pursuit of doing so.
When someone calls me racist, especially on a computer with a bunch of little typed black words and unknowing my true character, that’s fine you are entitled to your opinions.
I’m wearing myself out trying to explain my P.O.V. and taking the flak at the same time without being considered RACIST, is admittedly pretty hard.
Apparently I can’t seem to hold a conversation up above the 3rd grade with anyone in here.
I am sorry if you don’t see what I am trying to say, other than calling me a coward or a bigot hating on black women.
If I am interested, why in the f^#& am I in here for?
LikeLike
Azrazyel, I apologize if you felt attacked, but from my perspective you seemed to be attacking me, so I insulted you. Well I never said you were a racist, I said I was a bit offended by the way you phrased your opinion. I guess I can understand where you’re coming from…you dont’ want to be rejected repeatedly, but why make the comments about not ever approaching a bw and then state that you’ll approach a non-bw though. Then comment about how you view being rejected by a bw differently than being rejected by a non-bw? That was what offended me. I’m not saying you’re a racist, but you could have rephrased that a bit differently.
LikeLike
Azrazyel,
First: You must learn to think before you attack You may just alienate you only ally. I don’t do character assaults be cause it’s demeaning to all paries involved.
Second: You are a racist. I’m a racist. Racism is as American as apple pie. The great thing about admitting character flaws is it gives us an oppurtunity to examin why whe have them, then adjust our own thinking.
You wanted to learn. You need to learn to listen. God gave us two ears and one mouth for a reason. It doesn’t mean you have accept everything you hear,
LikeLike
Laramona was the one calling you a anti-bw racist, that’s just one person’s opinion. Not the whole groups. But when you made that rude comment, “Some things are better unknowing than unknowing.
Well, I see WHY black men leave you women is because they are fed up with the attitudes…” why would you even make a comment like that? Why bring up more stereotypes? That’s not going to help your argument. If you feel more comfortable on an online dating site catered to wm/bw fine, just say that. But when you get rude like that it just makes things worse…It makes it seem like you’re stereotyping black women as being all of the same opinion and the same backgrounds when we’re not all the same. That is what also offended me. How quickly you SEEMED to just group all black women under the same blanket statements. But I understand you felt attacked, but I think that was highly unnecessary to go there…
LikeLike
I am one of the sweetest, charming, caring guys you would ever meet.
I apologize for the ‘harsh’ comments or offending I may have said.
I still don’t completely understand nor see what I said wrong.
I have my points of view, whether you agree with them or not, I have my experiences with what I say.
This is the first time I have ever pursued a black woman. I grew up around ALL white people, went to an ALL white school, ALL of my family is white as well as distant relatives, NEVER had a black friend my entire 28 years of living as well as ALL of my friends being white.
I have much to learn about the black culture. That’s part of what interests me. I suppose I come off harsh sometimes from the frustration of NEVER being around black women in any social settings, family gatherings, out on the town with friends.
I am unfortunate because I can’t find any. Sure there are some black areas where I live. But they are (sorry for the stereotype, but you know what I mean) ghetto neighborhoods where no man that has his head on his shoulders and has a positive outlook and has positive things going would ever even want to look.
I guess it’s the frustration that causes me to be unhappy at times.
I hear about other white males in a healthy relationship with a black woman and I say….why can’t that be me? Why can’t I seem to find one that I can call my own to love, cherish, provide, give friendship and loyalty, trust, companionship, honesty, & integrity with?
Maybe because it’s an overwhelming amount of other race women compared to black women?
It shouldn’t be this hard, and I admit I make it that way for myself at times. I get frustrated easily especially when I put the drive, focus and energy on a certain thing but seem to fall short every time.
Where to look? Where to go? Where to start?
I continue to ponder these questions and I know for a fact there is a reason why I opened up.
Everything happens for a reason. This reason seems to flee whenever I seek it.
LikeLike
Azrazyel,
You have REPEATEDLY made comments on this post that are ANTI-BW and RACIST and I (or ANYONE ELSE) who ponts out this FACT is JUSTIFIED in doing so. We have EVERY RIGHT to do this.
It’s INTELLECTUALLY DISHONEST of you to post OFFENSIVE, RACIST comments directed AGAINST BW and then whine that you are “MISUNDERSTOOD and ATTACKED” when you are confronted for doing this.
I first clearly posted YOUR NEGATIVE COMMENTS and why they were WRONG and I asked you to explain WHY you have NEGATIVE ANTI-BW attitudes. Instead of HONESTLY accepting the VALID points I and others have made regarding your views, YOU’VE chosen to DISMISS US and CONTINUE making ATTACKING, OFFENSIVE, RUDE, ANTI-BW comments.
YOU NEED TO HONESTLY EXAMINE your DISRESPECTFUL, ANTI-BW attitudes and WORK to CHANGE them instead of CONTINUING to PUT DOWN BW.
LikeLike
Laromana:
Post all you want. I apologized to everyone in here.
I will treat your post like you didn’t post it to begin with.
Thank you for my waste of time.
LikeLike
Thank you Azrazyel for that last comment that was very nice and thank you for apologizing. I understand your frustration and thank you for acknowledging that you do have much to learn about black culture. Due to the history between bw/wm , the two groups are a little polarized I’ll admit, but at the end of the day we’re all human and just want to be respected and treated as INDIVIDUALS remember that and it will make a huge difference
LikeLike
maybe next time if a bw doesn’t appeal to you or if she rejects you, instead of looking at her as just a black woman, take it on an individuals case. Think “okay that particular woman who happens to be black may not be for me, but that’s doesn’t mean all black women are like that…” Tell yourself that over and over again until it becomes second nature do that and you will attract people who are just as interested in you as you are in them.
LikeLike
bunchesofoats,
We are INDIVIDUALS. We have different mindsets, opinions, we don’t all feel. think the same way. There are millions upon millions of black women in this world, we’re a diverse group of people. There are plenty of bw who like white men, you just need to treat them the way you would any other female. Also in terms of bw rejecting white men…did you ever think that part of the reason bw aren’t open to wm is because not enough wm are willing to approach bw first? (just like you said you don’t) I’m willing to bet if more wm openly pursued and approached bw respectfully more bw would eventually open up to white men and realize there is an attraction there. I wasn’t always open to white men until I realized there were some wm who desired bw. But part of what opened my eyes was the fact that wm showed interest in me and had confidence when it came to their attraction towards bw…
laromana,
I totally agree with EVERYTHING you’ve noted in the above comment and I made a similar comment to Azrazyel earlier in this post. Perhaps, he’ll HEAR what we’ve ALL been trying to say to him in your comments.
LikeLike
Azrazyel Says:
“I hear about other white males in a healthy relationship with a black woman and I say….why can’t that be me?”
Azrazyel,
The reason they have a healthy relationship with a black woman is because the pursued a woman WHO IS black.
You keep forgetting there is a real relationship going on, not a social experiment.
LikeLike
Azrazyel Says:
Laromana:
Post all you want. I apologized to everyone in here.
I will treat your post like you didn’t post it to begin with.
Thank you for my waste of time.
laromana Says,
I DON’T NEED your “apologies” to validate me/my opinion of you. GET OVER YOURSELF.
Your DISMISSIVE comment to me proves ALL of the points I’ve made about you throughout this post.
Your REFUSAL to HONESTLY address these points reveal what you REALLY think about BW. You’re NOT FOOLING ANYONE.
LikeLike
Thank you bunchesofoats!!!
I feel like a huge jerk now that I have settled down some.
Please don’t think I hate black women. How could I?????? I am here right? Why would I just yell out I love black women only to put them down at the same time? I guess I would be a hypocrite…..
One of my first posts in here I stated that I believe black women are THE most beautiful and gorgeous race of women on this planet, top to bottom < meaning light skin to dark skin. Doesn't matter to me.
Seems like a lot of white males go for the darker skin women. For me it's a non-issue. There is beauty in it all.
What I do hate is seeing the numerous amounts of white women in beauty commercials. I tell myself, put some REAL and BEAUTIFUL (black) women in those commercials. Time to knock the white woman (not hating here) off the pedestal. Black women need to be glorified, not subdued into a corner, because THEY are WOMEN too!!!
Okay I admit, I am sucking up a little bit…..LOL
That's honestly how I feel though. (:
LikeLike
Luna:
I appreciate the sentiments.
As soon as I find myself in a setting (if ever) to meet a black woman, I will do it.
It hasn’t happened yet, because the environment I live and work in doesn’t support the situations to happen that way. (In other words, no black women whatsoever).
LikeLike
All you have to do is treat people the way you would ask to be treated and take people on an individual basis. We’re all human.
“The reason they have a healthy relationship with a black woman is because the pursued a woman WHO IS black.”
Exactly…Luna…exactly. Its fine to have a physical preference, but you have to remember to really judge a person by what’s on the inside and not only what’s on the outside.
LikeLike
Look, Azrazyel, I can assure you when I yelled at my husband about putting his shoes away it had absolutely nothing to do with fthe fact that he is white, his family, or what anyone has to say about our relationship. My only concern was tripping over those size 11 boats he wears.
Get over the black/white thing. You’ll be happier.
LikeLike
Bunchesofoats:
Thank you! Yes physical beauty is what attracts us (as everyone knows) but to me personality is the deal maker, or breaker.
I would rather have someone who’s looks were a 5/10 but with the greatest personality compared to a bombshell with a personality that is void.
Luna:
Thanks for the kind and funny words.
People always wondered how I can be 5’7″ and wear a size 12?
No further explanation…..
LikeLike
i boy from pakistan i want to change my colour in white
LikeLike
Bunchesofoats, great comments! 🙂
Azrazyel,
It’s all water under the bridge now, but I agree with OP that lashing out because of what 1 (or 2 or 3, I didn’t count) people say will never make things better. Last time I checked, I didn’t say anything “mean” (lol, typing that word makes me laugh; it’s so juvenile)–I came in after the whole “racist” conversation. Now that you’ve taken a chill pill (:-P), I’m sure you can get answers to some of the questions you have.
To whomever said the “2 ears, 1 mouth” comment (Luna?): That was priceless! I want to tape it to my dorm room door–I can think of a few neighbors who could use a reminder. 🙂
LikeLike
First I want to say I have really enjoyed reading these post. Some of you have a LOT to say and that is good. I have dated black women all of my life. I may have dated a couple of white women. But,I have always been attracted to black women. Light,dark, medium,never seemed to matter much. Five years ago I met a black woman,and a feeling came over me like I had never had before. I knew this was the woman I wanted to spend the rest of my life with.
Come to find out, she felt the same way. I am the first and only white guy she ever dated. Today we are together and going strong. Neither of us have 4 or 5 college degrees, high school was as far as we got. I am 50 years old, she is 47. I am from Tennessee, she is from Michigan. You should see the look on some faces when they hear this southern drawl, and then I introduce my wife. A kodak moment. Racism? I have learned not to fret over things I can’t change. Racism is every where. I am 50 and have worked in every state in the union. I can honestly say the south has taken a few extra lumps we didn’t deserve, racism is every where.
My wife is dark,petite,perfect feet,legs,hips,waist,breast,lips,and nose. When I wake up in the morning and I see her I am thankful to be alive. So, to all of you white guys, I wish you the best on finding the second best black woman on earth.
LikeLike
Azrazyel:
We had to call you on your racism. If we had not then you (and others reading this) would have assumed there was nothing racist in your view of black women. Then you would have found out the hard way.
I for one was not scorning you but trying to point out your error. Maybe I could have used better words, but I felt I had to be direct because you did not seem to be getting it. You did not strike me as mean-spirited. It just seemed like you did not know any better due to your upbringing.
LikeLike
RamblinRick,
You have made my point. The older you are the less likely you are concerned with the opinions of people who wouldn’t otherwise give a damned about you.
Life is yours to live.
Shalom!
LikeLike
Azrazyel at #385 said:
Would you consider letting us put a picture of ourselves here online? I know this isn’t a dating site, but it would be nice to see those who I am talking to. (Well,if they decide to anyway.)
You can do this by setting your own avatar here:
http://en.gravatar.com/
That will replace the picture in the upper right-hand corner of your comments.
LikeLike
Oh thanks abagond.
I didn’t realize I could do that.
LikeLike
nice picture azrazyel 🙂 you’re very blond
LikeLike
Luna,
I agree wholeheartedly. I quit banging my head against the wall of racism many years ago. As a matter of fact I don’t mind the racists that are loud and outspoken, at least I know who they are.
I’m not a racist, but there are people I don’t like. People who “know” they are better than everyone else. People who think the world owes them a living. I depise tv evangelists. And, there has only been one politician in my lifetime that I had any respect for. Al Gore Sr. He did more for civil rights than most people know. I wish I had the same respect for his son.
LikeLike
Thanks bunchesofoats.
LikeLike
It’s pathetic that I have to use a dating site to find a black woman. Why can’t I just approach one without all the negatives that I think in my head while trying to do so?
Please tell me I am not insane. Why do so MANY white men AND black women resort to dating sites to find love with one another?
If it WAS so easy, why have these dating sites to begin with?
***********************************
A lot of your questions have been resolved, but I will l only add that online dating is perfectly acceptable and is now mainstream and no—dating is not easy for anyone no matter what race, gender, religion or sexual orientation. It’s a challenge in general for everyone thus your experience is not unique. All kinds of people use it as a tool to meet those who interest them and they have different dating sites for everybody from brainy scientists, disabled persons, tall people, little people and of course those who want interracial. If you can deal with your own personal hang-ups, online dating can be a useful tool to meet people that you are interested in, although I would suggest that it not be your only avenue of inquiry.
I still think that you are making it too hard. I have delineated why IR has problems, but your biggest advantage is your age and since you said that you are in your twenties—that is the best time to IR date, since Gen Y, the Millenials, and below usually isn’t saddled with as many racial hang-ups, therefore you are more apt to meet a Black woman that may like you back. Still, dating and courting is a risky venture, it takes a certain level of practice and acquired skill to learn to deal with rejection, learn social cues, be social in general if you are not a natural extrovert and be able to roll with the punches and move on. If you are risk averse then it will take that much longer to meet those who match your criteria.
All in all, it is up to you and any other Man who likes and wants to meet women that may not fall into the mainstream. Social convention in which the man takes the initiative is not going to change, thus it is to your best interest to deal as just a natural part of life and take each woman that you meet as an individual and not as a monolith. And although a Black woman comes with unique challenges that we did not create, we are in the end just women who want the respect, love, and understanding that any other good, normal woman deserves.
LikeLike
Thanks mayhue.
But right now I am most comfortable online to meet new people. All things considered, I have never interacted with blacks in my entire life.
This is a way for me to learn the culture and their interests on an individual basis.
Right now I am not so much seeking a relationship with a black woman, I know I am definitely not ready for that. I have much to learn and the internet is a great place for me to mingle and to build confidence and learn the differences of the cultural aspect and tools that I feel I must learn first.
Why jump in right away without a clue of the culture and possibly waste my time with someone when I feel I haven’t matured enough into the cultural aspect?
Yes a woman is a woman in the end, I know that black women ARE women just like anyone else.
I feel it is in my best interest to get to know some people first before jumping into something I feel I am not prepared for.
Yes, I could definitely see myself dating/marrying a black woman someday, just like any other woman, but I want to make sure I am comfortable and ready to do so first especially if I meet someone I really like/love.
You may see this as an experiment. Experiment is, well to me, someone who jumps in right away to see ‘how it is.’ Not my intentions here. This is something I really am interested in so talking/mingling/making friends with people while learning from others I feel is best suitable for me.
Az
LikeLike
I have never had a problem finding black women to date. I do believe they like a man to be a little bit ascertive. If you have sometihing on your mind, speak up. But, be nice. Don’t jump into the black white conversation right off the bat. That can come at a later date,hopefully after you get to know each other better. Any woman, black or white likes to laugh, so a sense of humor is always a plus. I do know a black womans likes a man that can cook. That’s why over the years I have managed to work myself up to the posistion of chef extraordinaire.
LikeLike
abagond Says:
Azrazyel:
We had to call you on your racism. If we had not then you (and others reading this) would have assumed there was nothing racist in your view of black women. Then you would have found out the hard way.
I for one was not scorning you but trying to point out your error. Maybe I could have used better words, but I felt I had to be direct because you did not seem to be getting it. You did not strike me as mean-spirited. It just seemed like you did not know any better due to your upbringing.
laromana says,
Abagond,
I agree 100% with your above response to Azrazyel and (although I may have been misunderstood by some)I responded strongly to him for the very same reasons.
I know that none of us can ever really know exactly what a poster’s TRUE intention is in writing certain comments, but I am commited to always challenging ANTI-BW LIES, MYTHS, and STEREOTYPES with the intention of helping to DESTROY them and help promote a PRO-BW view of the HUMANITY, DIGNITY, and FEMININITY of BW.
LikeLike
laromana:
Not trying to be rude, but your approach comes off as an internet bot looking to scorn words that you deem ‘inappropriate’ when talking about black women.
Look I have moved on. I am still learning here and other places as well.
I don’t need a moderator who fixates on every word I say and write.
I have long said black women are the most beautiful/gorgeous race of women on this planet.
I am definitely not trying to prove anything to you nor do I want to. I don’t mind people helping me realize my erroneous ways at times with a calm approach.
You seem way over the top and out of my control. If people want to help me that’s fine. I can admit my wrongdoings.
Just please quit following me around whenever you see something unacceptable because I can base from the caps in your writing, you seem to me looking for a target to scorn someone with.
If you want to disagree, I can live with that.
It’s black women like you (no offense) that is exactly what scares me away. Down to earth people who can have a calm, cool and collected conversation is what I enjoy and welcome to accompany.
I know I have done wrong as we all have, I just don’t need someone correcting my points of views every time I have something to say. It’s not just you in particular, but your approach to it.
LikeLike
Ramblinrick,
I agree that Black women like guys to be more assertive. Usually, that’s what we are used to, and some White guys are timid to the point that it’s hard to tell if they are interested or not. I notice that in general, they tend to operate using a lot of eye signals, lol.
LikeLike
Jasmins11,
I like that about black women. If they are interested, you will know. If they are not, you will definitely know. you’re right, white guys are timid. I wet through that myself. I was working construction ata hospital. Every morning I crossed paths with a very beautiful NA. One morning i said to her,”you wouldn’t go out with a white guy would you?” She said, “maybe I’ll show you sometime.” She just walked off, and I stood there with my mouth open catching flies. Like an idiot I never asked her out. But. I never forgot that day, I learned from that experience.
I read these post about black women with an “attitude”. I have found out most of these women are in, trying to get out of, or just got out of a really abusive relationship, so they told me. Given a chance to relax a bit, they are no different than most women. i also like to laugh, and black women can be very funny and light spirited. Just like me and my “ol’ lady” we make each other laugh. But, like I said, it really helps knowing how to cook.
LikeLike
ramblinrick says:
“One morning i said to her,”you wouldn’t go out with a white guy would you?” She said, “maybe I’ll show you sometime.” She just walked off, and I stood there with my mouth open catching flies. Like an idiot I never asked her out. But. I never forgot that day, I learned from that experience.”
Dear God,
If only I could get to that stage and grow some cahonies and be able to do that. LOL
Maybe one of these days….
LikeLike
Azrazyel,
I suspect you are young. Well, at my age, that doesn’t mean REALLY young, younger than myself. I think you are being torn by mixed emotions, and that is normal. I have dated a lot of black women and there were a LOT of disappointments. I see things in my past as part of a building process. I do not regret the disappointments of my past, because that path has lead me where I am today. The most beautiful black woman in the world that I love very much. All of the disappointments in the past are worth it.
So, if you see a black woman that strikes your fancy say something to her. Remember, be nice, don’t jump right into the BW conversation,and LEARN HOW TO COOK!!!
LikeLike
Yes I am 28.
I understand guys face rejection all the time. Getting rejected by a black woman would be like getting rejected by a white woman or any other woman for that matter.
I don’t have a clue how to cook. lol
My brother is a chef so maybe I need to ask him some tips for some things. lol
Good talking with ya and take care
LikeLike
Azrazyel,
I’m NEITHER “FOLLOWING YOU” or trying to “CENSOR” YOU.
We DON’T KNOW each other so STOP INFLATING the importance of your opinions as they relate to me.
Like ANYONE ELSE on this blog, I’m FREE to comment about any post (INCLUDING YOURS) REGARDLESS of whether we agree or not.
LikeLike
being a white male in my 40s I have dated women of ALL races and ages, to me I prefer a black woman of dark skin tone, these are the nost beautiful women in the world to me. I love everything about a black woman from the top of their heads to the bottom of their feet there is nothning like seeing a black woman of any skin tone wlaking down the strret ALL woman of african american heritage should be proud of themselves for being the most beautiful women in the world. By the way I have been married to a beautiful intelligent woman of red bone complexion for 15 years and going strong. Oh Yeah black women have the most perfects butts, sorry for the stereotype butt, its true!!! All love to the black woman john from toledo ohio
LikeLike
Anyone is free to comment on anyone else’s comment.
LikeLike
Since my last two posts were edited out laromana,
It was a pleasure talking to you.
(:
LikeLike
I know that abagond.
I feel like I am being attacked every time someone (insert name here) disagrees with me.
Why were my posts edited?
I didn’t use any vulgar language.
Hmmm……lol
LikeLike
Because you called her names. Attack her statements, not her. I deleted some of hers for the same reason.
LikeLike
Sorry abagond. I apologize.
Sometimes my typy fingers get too worked up….lol
LikeLike
Azrazyel,
Tell me something, why is starting a relationship with a black woman so important to you? It seem a bit inappropriate. It’s almost an obsession.
The reason I ask is most people who start dating interracially do so as an after thought. The meet someone. The consider the other person’s race as nothing more than a physical attribute — like eye color or hair cut. You seem to be on a mission.
The first white man I dated was a friend of a friend. It was very casual. We eventually married.
LikeLike
I already stated I don’t want a relationship right now. It’s not important to me as much as getting accustomed to the culture.
And so what if I like them. It was an afterthought before. I am exploring my options to see what else is out there.
I am not closed minded like most, I can appreciate a woman as a woman no matter the color.
Are you telling me I’m obsessive?
Jeesh….I can’t win in here. First it’s you know who, now it’s you.
So much for trying to learn the culture, apparently I seem not to learn anything in here other than people hating on me.
(Shaking his head)
LikeLike
I’m just asking the question because I don’t understand. I try not to pass judgments that’s why I ask questions.
You really have to stop taking everything so very personally. If this is the way you respond to my questions, your relationship could be doomed before it gets started.
LikeLike
Plus I already know I wouldn’t get along with at least 70-80% of black women due to my music preferences.
So yes, it will probably be that much harder.
LikeLike
“If this is the way you respond to my questions, your relationship could be doomed before it gets started.”
Yes your probably right.
But yes, asking if I am obsessive, I take that in the same vein as being a peeping tom or a stalker.
Jeeze-o-weez
LikeLike
Sorry Luna:
Bad day at work.
You see, I work with mentally disabled people which can be very strenuous at times, then in turn settles with me for the rest of the day.
I’m not one easily relaxed, I wish I was more but work can be tough.
To answer your question. I’m not obsessive in any way, shape or form.
I’ve stated I don’t and never had any black friends. I am not around any black women to ‘become’ friends with. Everything here where I live is secluded.
Blacks with blacks and whites with whites.
I really don’t have a chance to mingle with anyone outside my race.
So yes, the internet is my best avenue as of now.
Think of it as a kid going to a brand new school far away and not having a clue who anyone is or if he will even make friends with anybody. Brand new people and brand new faces which he isn’t accustomed to.
That’s what it is like for me trying to learn the black culture and it’s people.
Let me ask you this.
Does it strike you weird because I know exactly what I am attracted to?
I love all races but black women is my focus.
Kind of like wanting to get a new vehicle. One is red but you want one with black and won’t settle for red because it’s not your interest.
I am focused (not obsessive please) on black women because I so happen to find them attractive.
Everything happens for a reason. I am a religious man, and believe God has set forth my destiny in this direction.
Maybe there is something a black woman can provide for me, and I for her that no other woman can do.
Yes it is my choice that I am interested. Please don’t think of it as obsessive other than a white man unaccustomed to the black culture and trying to learn and meet new people as much as he can.
Take care
LikeLike
abagond,
Thanks for always being a gentleman and fair to everyone who posts on this blog.
It always DISTURBS me when ANY man claims to like/want to get to know BW and then turns around and DISRESPECTS/DEMEANS a BW when she challenges any NEGATIVE views/attitudes he may have about BW.
LikeLike
I have made peace with you laromana. (:
Take care.
LikeLike
We are all have our preferences. I tend to be attracted to highly intelligent men.
We have a couple of things in common: working in social service and being persons of faith. I used to work in social service. The majority of my clients were schizophrenic. My co-workers called me the “Queen of the Schizophrenics.” I understand the stress of the work. You really need to spend less time in front of your computer and more time with balanced people. You need the support. It helped me stay sane.
As a person of faith it is important to have faith. There are times we fight for control when we really need to give up control. I think you’re working so hard to find your one and only you may just frighten her off.
Again, I say, “Breathe!”
LikeLike
I’m always around balanced people such as my friends and family.
Sometimes I feel like I am losing my faith…..I dunno why. {Very saddening}
LikeLike
Anyone like or write poetry?
I write and will share if anyone cares so. (:
LikeLike
I like poetry, anything artistic.
LikeLike
Okay. I’ll share two tonight then some more tomorrow. Gotta work….blah!
‘To a Breathless Cause’
My sins now weep to a ghostly breath,
This pain and sorrow inflicts my death.
This world turned to misery and hate,
All my fears I cannot escape.
Afraid to find the answers I seek,
Tired, worn, numb and weak.
Tears that form mirror the pain inside,
Suffocating into silent cries.
Anger forms then turns to sin,
Searing thoughts unleashed within.
Darkness falls and then descends,
Upon my soul, without end.
Screams of fears I cannot break,
Trapped inside, I see my fate.
Shadows of darkness that whispers lies,
Gleam of solitude unfound, despised.
An epic end and without time,
From clemency, I’ve been denied.
Robusting shadows in my dreams,
Forms then fades between the screams.
A life once felt now without means,
Beaten down, I scar and bleed.
A solid state crumbles away,
Darkness drives the light in vain.
A cloud of dust from my remains,
A final gasp then breath escapes.
The deepest darkest realm on Earth,
Inflicts the pain of unending hurt.
A selfish mind that I put first,
Letting free the lessons learned.
Shameful greed I’ve shunned my way,
Withdrawn, I whisk in flames.
From these hands I’ve seen disgrace,
I look to blame but view displace.
Sending forth with words of hate,
Deception written across my face.
I fall into the eyes of defeat,
The enemy yells and boastfully speaks.
Crushed down I feel so weak,
Ending sorrow but find deceit.
Anger feeds this fire within,
Brushing flames to burn my sin.
Tearing the lies all light is dim,
Evil despised the path to him.
With no avail I feel at loss,
This nightmare holds ‘To a Breathless Cause’.
Written by me July 2009
‘Whispers in the Forest’
Darkness drives the wind of night, An endless forest with endless sight,
Trees sway at the constant beat, Of the trembling at the ground beneath.
Silence pierces all that’s still, With fear in those who seek the light,
Howls and cries of the lonesome ones, Remains in place, Remains undone.
Fear is few and far in between, The silent ones who remain unseen,
The moon eclipses through the dark, To the abyss it has been charred.
The forest stirs with mighty wind, Unrest is found from deep within,
A final cry cracks the night, The light of dawn is now in sight.
The restless ones now lay in peace, The stir of whispers have fled their dreams.
Written by me April 2009
LikeLike
So you do have a soul;). I can assure you, if you allow yourself to be the person you just showed us she will see it, too. Stop trying to be someone you aren’t.
LikeLike
I have to acknowledge that I’ve enjoyed your blog very much. I’ve always wondered what WM thought of BW. Interesting comments. I’m a BW and I live in the south. It is very rare that I see a WM/BW couple. Does it tend to be a lot of WM/BW couples up North due to the non-stigma of racism/prejudice that is so evident in the south? Tho i’m not dating a WM I do find WM attractive. I prefer WM with dark hair, tan, with an athletic build. But I also like WM with a sort of darkness to them I guess the one actor I can think of to give you an example is Johnny Depp.
I would like to point out that although i do not see WM/BW couples a lot, when I do see them it’s usually a BW with natural hair, light or dark skin with a slim build.
LikeLike
I’ve traveled quite a bit. I experienced more racism in the Midwest than any other part of the country. I grew up in Virginia.
My ex-husband and I were refused service in a greasy IHOP in Milwaukee.
LikeLike
Amen Luna,
you are right on point. I have worked in almost every state in the union. Over the years I have found as you, the midwest is really racist. Chicago is one of the most racist cities I know of. The south gets a bad rap.
I am from Tennessee, and I grew up on a farm. Next to my grandfather’s farm were two farms owned by black men. At that time, the most important was making a living. My grand father was down for six months, due to back surgery. The two black men would work their farm, then my grandfather’s farm. I was ten years old at the time, and I will never forget these men. I certainly would hate to go back there, but I do not regret my childhood. There, I learned to respect people. If I wanted to know about black culture, I read a book. If I wanted to know about black people I got out amongst them.
I have said all of that to say this, Iam proud to have grown up in the south. I am certainly glad I didn’t grow up in the midwest, or a lot of places up north.
Luna, I love the way you think.
LikeLike
Thank you, Rick.
LikeLike
Drea says:
“I’m a BW and I live in the south. It is very rare that I see a WM/BW couple. Does it tend to be a lot of WM/BW couples up North due to the non-stigma of racism/prejudice that is so evident in the south?”
No. I have never seen a white man and a black woman together. It’s unknown here as well.
There is just as much stigma in the north as the south. Racism knows no boundaries.
People always talk about seeing WM/BW couples to which I believe them, but I have personally never seen one.
LikeLike
Aww, how sad that my hometown gets such a bad rap!
I’m from Chicago, and I don’t notice much overt racism (though of course I know it’s there), but I always hear about the Midwest being racist. This may be due to the fact that I seem to be quite a bit younger than most of you, and I haven’t really travelled around the Midwest outside of Chicago. I go to school in Indiana, so I couldn’t say how many BW/WM couples I see in Chicago on a regular basis, but I’ve never had anyone say they had a problem with it in front of me. People said that the Cracker Barrel by my house used to be racist (though I think Cracker Barrel has that rep throughout the country), but the racism I’ve encountered seems to have mainly been against Black people in general, not Black women. In fact, I can think of at least a few friends from high school whose parents loved me, but who I’m pretty sure would never allow me to set foot in their house if I were a Black male.
LikeLike
Racism is a tool used by the rich and powerful to maintain control. I can remember as a young man I was told the low life black man was my problem. He was to sorry to work. I was told to vote for a cerian individual, “He will get the N’s in line” I was fortunate in the fact there were a few older white that didn’t feel that way. My grandfather would tell me ‘Can’t judge a book by the cover’ At the time it was way over my head. But those words stuck in my head. As I grew older they had a real meaning.
LikeLike
I am a black female married to a White male.
I am 5ft5 and weigh around 145. I do carry my weight pretty well, and give off the appearance that I’m atheletic…but I am a little bit on the heavy side.
My husband is a White and on the more slimmer side…and he admitted to me that he is very attracted to my curves…as opposed to his ex who was very tiny thin and happened to be a White female.
Before I met him I had dated White men who really wanted to be in a serious relationship, and also wanted children and marriage. I had never thought at all of it as being due to my skin complexion or anything like that.
My father is a very dark skinned Black man, and my mom is a Black woman who has a very light bright skin tone. Sometimes people say I do kinda look like a biracial Asian mix, but I disagree because I think I look way more ethnic black because of my facial features and curlier hair. I think I take after my father alot, we have the same nose and ears and lips etc…I think people saying that about me looking mixed is ignorance because we as Black people have all types of skin tones, facial features and hair textures…So I don’t buy into that.
Before I met my husband or even dated White men, there weren’t really any Black men showing me interests. I never really considered being with a White man at all back then, even though I had found some of them attractive. I was very interested Black men and I’m not sure if its because of just growing up where I did or what but I thought I had to be with a Black man…and thats who I was always attracted to.
Now this was in the 1980s and I’m only speaking from my own personal experiences…most of the black men were only interested in very darker skinned females or ones who were extremely light white/or completely white. In betweens were not really the very popular types of females.
All throughout high school, college, post college etc…it seemed that most of the attention I got from any men period were White. I can’t explain it and I don’t understand it…I guess that’s just how it happened. It could be due to the location of where I live etc…I do live really deep in the South.
LikeLike
RamblinRick,
I agree racism is a tool of the powerful to manipulate the masses. Even today, people are getting so angry about a health care bill that hasn’t been completed. They rely too much on what they’ve “heard”, not what they know.
There is very little racism in the military because people are forced to interact with each other on a very personal level.
Getting to know people, not racial symbols, is important to me.
LikeLike
is there a white men who black women liek post??
LikeLike
Luna,
What you are saying about the military? There is very little racism because people are FORCED to interact. Hmmm. Oh, there is still racism, they are just in a posistion where they dare not express their true feelings.
LikeLike
I’m not saying there isn’t racism in the military. I’ve experienced it first hand.
What I’m saying, for those who are not hard core racists, many of those attitudes tend to fall away. The hard core types are live in such a state of fear no one can get close to them.
Racist make me a power. Why else would anyone fear such a self-assured, peace-loving woman such as myself. Their fear makes me a force to be recond with. Wow what a DIVA I am. 😉
LikeLike
peanut Says:
is there a white men who black women liek post??
laromana Says:
Great question. I would love to see it, too. I remember abagond mentioned doing a post on this topic but I haven’t seen it yet.
LikeLike
“White men that black women like” is very complicated. If you asked 300 black women what they’re attracted too you’d get 300 different answers.
As for me, send me a geek!
LikeLike
“White men that black women like” – that is in the works, but it is much harder than this post.
LikeLike
Abagond:
Why is it harder?
LikeLike
perhaps its the fact he’s assuming the role of a black female and not a white man…
LikeLike
When I see a couple together I almost always look at the woman, not the man. Men do not interest me. I only look closely at the man if he is much shorter, uglier, older or geekier – because then at that point I am wondering, “How in the world did he get this woman? What is his secret?”
Also, men go mainly by looks, way more so than women, so it is easier to pin down what they like by just looking at who they are with.
LikeLike
Oh ok, gotcha abagond.
Thanks.
LikeLike
Abagond
You should do a post on “White men that black woman like”
Unless you the stereotypical black guy that hates black woman with white men!
LikeLike
Why would you say that Wayne?
Maybe you see something I don’t?
Please elaborate…..
LikeLike
Luna is right on the money.
Ask 10 different black women what they find attractive in a man and you will get ten (possibly radically) different answers. Every woman is just so different. That’s one of the things that makes women so beautiful.
I argue that men are just as diverse in that area too. Much more so than many people give us/them credit for.
LikeLike
I am a white female,when i was younger i seemed to have been attracted to darker skinned men.I just liked that bad boy image,the type we see in all those videos.I dated several black men,but it just never seemed to work out.They never really had much ambition,nor any motivation for work.I dismissed all this, for i may not have understood it’s importance at the time.I wanted a family and a life that secured my children.I just wanted a better life but had a hard time finding this with black men.I have a great job,i work as an accountant for a large firm.I now have found a mate who is of Italian heritage,with great family values and financial stability.We have recently been married and this has to be the best choice i have ever made in my life.My advice to anyone reading this is to just be wise,make the best choices for your future.Life is way too short for watching others succeed,live life to the fullest.
LikeLike
“I dated several black men,but it just never seemed to work out.They never really had much ambition,nor any motivation for work.”
I cringe at the thought of you saying that. I know of some black men who are hard working and take care of their families. Although I didn’t see you say ‘all’, I am just reassuring you there are many black men who are good people and do what is right for their family.
LikeLike
Azrazyel,
You are absolutely right. I am a union electrician, and have been in the trade for 30 years. I have worked in almost every state in the union. In these past 30 years I have had the privilege of working with some black men that were jam up and jelly tight. They took care of thier families, and they were real craftsmen of the trade. It was an honor to work beside these men. Some I have not seen in 10 or 15 years, but we still talk.
LikeLike
Rachel,
What make you think that if your previous relationship didn’t worked out, that’s because the men were black men who did’t have ambition,nor any motivation for work etc…
But now u are happy for ur Italian mate.
You said yourself you were young(and them too), mabye that why it didn’t work out.
Have you ever asked yourself why you were in relationship with these(black) men?
As a woman( and black), I am just so fed up to hear people blaming the race when their relationship doesn’t work, sometimes that’s nothing to do with but more about attraction and compatibility!
It’s difficult to find a husband, mate etc… in any race for every women.
I know plenty good men, some appear to be black and they are good father, husband and hardworker.
LikeLike
nubiah,
Touche!
LikeLike
Very well said, nubiah!
LikeLike
I think Rachel was thinking this was an anti-Black Man site.
Before I found this site I’ve spent much of my dating life trying to understand why white men find me more attractive than black men.
It is amazing to me when I have done online dating I got more responses from white men than black. For every 20 white men to respond, maybe one black man would respond.
LikeLike
Jeesh Luna:
I didn’t know you thought white men showing more interest than black men was such a terrible thing.
And people call me anti-black……
LikeLike
Luna says:
I think Rachel was thinking this was an anti-Black Man site.
LOL!LOL!LOL!
again as I said above, being unlucky in love that’s nothing to do with the race of your partner but sometimes because you made the bad choice.
She said herself, she was attracted to that bad boy image,the type she saw see in all those videos.
no wonder with the kind of man, she was dating.( no offence Rachel)
LikeLike
I think it’s curious that black men seem to view me as a less desirable choice. It makes a girl wonder some times. 😉
LikeLike
From a cultural prospective, it would be easier for me to date a middle class black man. There are things I would not have to explain.
LikeLike
Understood.
What I don’t understand is why you hate the fact white men give you attention like it’s a horrific thing.
Why are you here then if you find white men undesirable?
It’s like me saying I hate the fact that black women approach me because it ruins my public image as well as degrading me as a white man.
LikeLike
All in all Luna,
stay with your own race because you will find it much easier.
You said it yourself, just don’t pretend to like white men and then complain about the fact they give you attention.
It conflicts itself.
LikeLike
Luna, I’m in the same situation as you. I am approached generally by every race with the exception of black. But I take a positive approach to that. I think it just gives you more options. I’ve never been the type to limit myself in any area (not saying that you do).
If black men overlook you – I’m sure it’s their loss.
LikeLike
I’m not complaining. I always asked,”Why.” If given the chance I would spend my life in academia. I feel good about who I am. It is my nature to ask questions.
LikeLike
No means to offend:
You seem desperate?
I would want somebody who doesn’t question why a white man approaches her. She has an open mind and loves all races. The other ones on the flipside are the bad apples I avoid.
Maybe that’s why you don’t have one? Hm….dunno.
LikeLike
islandgirl:
How could black men not approach you?
You look white, black men date white women.
I don’t see the trouble.
LikeLike
Island and Luna, do you have an idea why you are more approached by non-black men?
I am just curious.
LikeLike
I am trying not to offend here.
I ask questions too.
For me, it seems lately Asian women show more interest in me than white women. Don’t get me wrong…I LOVE Asian women..lol I just wonder why I don’t seem to click with the right white women.
I stated before I am interested in black women but I thought about it hard recently and the chances of me bringing her home to mam and dad or having a lasting relationship is abundantly slim.
I like them but I really can’t ever see myself marrying one. I will still talk online to them and maybe somehow a spark from nowhere might happen, but I feel too weird about the fact to date a black woman.
It’s more cultural and marriageable material issues that dwell within me. It’s a rarity (for me at least) to find a black woman on the same level as I am and click on all aspects.
But I am happy I am open to the possibilities of playing the field to find a suitable partner that makes me feel comfortable.
Have a good day
LikeLike
I agree with Luna and Islandgirl–I couldn’t tell you the last time a Black guy approached me, but I attract White guys all time. I agree with Islandgirl, it’s definitely not a bad thing (and I don’t think Luna was implying that, Azrazyel–she didn’t say anything derogatory about White men), but it does make you wonder.
My guess is that I’m too “skinny” for some (most?) Black guys, even though I’m technically not skinny, more slender. I’ve had White people call me curvy, but no Black male has ever said that. Plus, most of the Black guys at my school seem to date White girls exclusively–I think that would currently be the primary reason, but the first thing I mentioned would more often apply in the “real world”.
LikeLike
Azrazyel,
I don’t look white. That picture translated a lot lighter for some reason although I tried several of times to adjust color. I am a deep carmel (probably the same as Stacey Dash).
Nubiah, I have no idea. I don’t know about Luna, but for me maybe my size. I am on the slim side and a lot of black men are so closed to that. But maybe men of other races don’t limit a woman just to size, but are able to see the entire package. But, I am not a man so it’s hard to guess.
LikeLike
Typically white men go for slim women.
That’s why they date Asian, small and petite.
LikeLike
nubiah Says:
Island and Luna, do you have an idea why you are more approached by non-black men?
I am just curious.
I really don’t understand it. I am a HUGE flirt. I flirt with delivery men, taxi drivers, retail workers, police officers, you name it. I am equal opportunity. It just pain feels good.
The only men who seriously approach me are usually white. I am conservatively dress with natural hair. I usually have work in positions where few black people work and even fewer men. Maybe it’s just demographics.
LikeLike
Jasmin, I posted this last post before seeing yours. Now that I’ve read your post, I am convinced it’s the size issue. Like you, I’m not skinny but slender. A lot of black men have tried to put me down for it. But other men have appreciated me for me.
I did wonder about it for a while but then accepted that what will be will be. It doesn’t bother me at all now.
LikeLike
Islandgirl, Jasmine and Luna,
Where do you guys live? And how would you describe the black guys in your environment? What “types” are they?
Jasmine, so the white girls and their families are THAT receptive to them dating black men? Really?
LikeLike
Luna:
Are you thin too, like Jasmin and Islandgirl?
LikeLike
‘Rachel’ has stereotypical, racist ideas of black men. “Bad boys in the videos”. LOL. Are you serious? No wonder the relationships with the black men she dated didn’t work. Quality black men wouldn’t be interested in a woman who thinks like her. Yet the “low lives” would. Birds of a feather flock together.
Azraeyel,
LOL at your comment to Islandgirl. “Well you look white, why wouldn’t black men want to date you?”. LOL. I know its hard for many white men to comphrend but most of your black male counterparts are not thinking about “your women”. I also wonder why such a pretty girl as Islandgirl would trouble attracting ANY man, let alone one of a certain race, but looks don’t make everything happen.
LikeLike
I live in the DC area. Many ambitious black me feel black women are a viable option.
I have also met a couple of men online. When I post I get very little response for black men — maybe one or two.
The white men I date tend to have post-graduate degrees. I’m not a snob. It just worked out that way.
LikeLike
abagond Says:
Luna:
Are you thin too, like Jasmin and Islandgirl?
I don’t think I’m thin. I am about 10 lbs heavier than I should be. However, I have narrow hips and large breast.
LikeLike
mynameismyname Says:
but looks don’t make everything happen.
I agree 100%. Even though I’m ugly and haven’t had a woman in years, I’m still getting laid.
Albeit I have to pay for it.
LikeLike
Mynameismyname,
I am from Chicago, but I currently go to school in Indiana. It’s hard for me to evaluate the guys back home, since I’m rarely there, but as far as guys in my age group I never run into the “studious” types. Here at school, half of the Black guys are athletes, and many of the Black guys (in general) seem to get off on acting stereotypically “Black.” A lot of people subscribe to the “Everything Black is cool” meme, so that doesn’t surprise me, but that’s really not my type.
Lol, I don’t think a lot of these girls parents know they are dating (or more often, sleeping with) athletes. Off the top of my head I can only think of 2 real couples, the rest are….use your imagination.
LikeLike
Oh my gosh, Jasmin – I also live in Indiana in a very small, depressed town. A lot of black men here are into drugs and in and out of jail. You are so right when you say black men act sterotypical. Dealing drugs is “cute”. They seem interested in living a rap video than trying to get ahead. But that’s most of Indiana with the exception of Bloomington, I.U.. That’s not my type either. Maybe you just have to look at is as a blessing in disguise.
I’m surprised at the university that you encounter that. I guess it depends on the university.
Luna, I’m surprised you encounter that in the D.C. area. I’ve always thought men on the East Coast were more progressive.
Mynameismyname, I was a little offended by his comment. But thanks for your comment!
LikeLike
You should check out craigslist DC. That just about sums things up.
LikeLike
Jasmin,
What you said makes sense. I’ve of heard of similar scenarios from other blacks (male and female) who went to predominately white univeristies and colleges. You’d think these black male students would take advantage of their education but it is what it is, I guess.
Luna,
Do you have a post-grad degree as well? I imagine that these white men you dated were older? I notice that is a pattern with the white men who date black women.
Lynette,
You said that right! Size is a touchy issue for black Americans, when it comes to evaluating beauty. Yet, the black women I see all over are all across the board size-wise. As a whole, they don’t seem any skinnier or fatter than their white counterparts.
LikeLike
I haven’t complete my BS. That’s the irony of it all.
I’m ADD. I’ve have an insatiable curiosity. I lived in Europe. I have a lot of things in common with these men except a formal education.
LikeLike
@Lynette:
I hear ya! Coming from an Asian perspective, I am repeatedly told I don’t possess a stereotypical Asian shape (slim build, small almost non-existent breasts, and no behind). With a height of 5’3″ and 110 lbs., as well as a fairly large bustline, I’ve been told by other Asians that I’m a bit chubby. I don’t think I am, but most of the Asian girls I’ve come across are barely 95 lbs. dripping wet!
LikeLike
I remember going to a shop owned by an asian lady and she almost did want me to try on her clothes because she believed I was going to ruin them because of my built. I am a black women, 5 ft 2, 125 lbs (not skinny, but I don’t consider myself fat or obese either). I felt a little self-conscious about my body after leaving the store, but had to keep in mind that asian women are generally very thin and petite and in her eyes, I probably looked huge!
LikeLike
Islandgirl,
I’m sorry to offend you as that was my last intent.
I had no clue the state of Indiana was like that. I know that the city of Gary is notoriously in dire straits.
Leigh,
I remember a Korean friend saying something of a similar effect. She was 5’7″ and 130. Others in her community were calling her “fat”. It’s weird because I’ve seen plenty of tall and heavy East Asians. Not all are “small and petite”.
LikeLike
@mnimn:
You’re correct as well. Not all Asians are small and petite. Mind you, the taller and heavier East Asians you see were most likely born and raised in the US, and eat a more Western diet.
Your Korean friend reminds me of my Korean friend. She’s 5’8″ and 120 lbs. She always lamented to me that her family called her fat, but if you saw this girl you wouldn’t think so. I mean, I even saw some ribs jutting out.
While your friend isn’t fat by any means especially in North America, but according to East Asian standards, she is. It’s silly, I know. Any size above a size small is considered too large.
LikeLike
mynameismyname,
No, you didn’t offend me! Azaryel’s comment was offensive. I thought what you said was nice.
LikeLike
Luna,
We BW need to ONLY have relationships with QUALITY men of ANY race who DON’T ACCEPT ANTI-BW LIES, MYTHS, AND STEREOTYPES and who respect our HUMANITY, DIGNITY, and FEMININITY.
LikeLike
Islandgirl,
I can’t imagine living here permanently! How do you do it? I’m in Northern Indiana, not even 90 minutes from my house, and I am still itching to get back to Chicago (or anywhere besides this wasteland) once I graduate.
Mynameismyname,
Most of the students here aren’t from Indiana, so I think it might be our specific college environment moreso than the state, but from what I’ve seen of the “townies” (as we call them), Islandgirl’s assessments are right on.
Leigh204,
We are the same height and size! Guess I’m chubby. 😛
LikeLike
Jasmin:
wasteland – I know what you mean.
LikeLike
laromana Says:
Luna,
We BW need to ONLY have relationships with QUALITY men of ANY race who DON’T ACCEPT ANTI-BW LIES, MYTHS, AND STEREOTYPES and who respect our HUMANITY, DIGNITY, and FEMININITY.
Laromana,
I’ve reached a place of self-acceptance in my life. I am not despairing. I am not desperate. I am not mourning the loss of attention from uninspired, emotionally stunted, criminal men.
I love my hair that defiantly resists straightening. I love my long legs. I love my full lips. I love my chocolate skin. That is who I am.
The advancing years have been good to me. I laugh more, love passionately, and give freely. I appreciate the kindness of strangers — no matter the color of the wrapping.
So, my dear friends, I am the last person you need to pity. However I thank you for your care.
LikeLike
Luna,
Yep. I certainly agree with you. Sometimes, I think I would love being 21 again. But right now is the best time of my life.
LikeLike
“I haven’t complete my BS. That’s the irony of it all.
I’m ADD. I’ve have an insatiable curiosity. I lived in Europe. I have a lot of things in common with these men except a formal education.”
Same here. Exactly that. And most of the guys I dated (and now married) have post-graduate degrees.
Interesting, isn’t it?
Although, people with ADD/ADHD tend to have above-average intelligence (with it becoming more prevalent the higher up the IQ-scale one goes, as with all LDs) so I guess it’s not really that surprising. Although where ADD starts and DOE ends is still up for discussion.
I have read some studies about highly and profoundly gifted women (with and without ADHD). They usually end up as housewives, like me. It’s sort of ironic, really.
But I guess this is totally off-topic…
LikeLike
I am a Puerto Rican male, military. I have always dated black women because of the many virtues and beautiful qualities black women have, besides that I am a fan of full lips and curves…
What I value of black women (yes, I would date the ones you showed like some white dudes would not date) is the unconditional way they committ to a partner, once they believe that God is color-blind and they are loved for who they are. Tel. 601-596-6667
LikeLike
I am a white dude, and I have always dated black women. I would date every woman on both lists. I would not want to be the one to decide who went on what list. Hair style is not important. I prefer a slim woman, but a few extra pounds ain’t bad. Skin color, I like women with dark skin.
LikeLike
Luna Says:
I think it’s curious that black men seem to view me as a less desirable choice. It makes a girl wonder some times.
laromana Says:
Luna,
You misunderstood my comment if you think I pity you. Good for you for having a healthy sense of self acceptance and self esteem. My comment was in response to what you said in your above comment and an affirmation of the PRO-BW stance I’d like to see ALL BW take in their personal relationships with men in general.
LikeLike
I can remember when I was a little girl that my opinion of myself came from the men in my life.
My dad who was not my biological father,is a very dark man. I am the second oldest of five children and the oldest girl. I am sandwiched between a brother who is very light and a sister who is very light. Every time there was something “special” to give out I always got it but with a comment. “why can’t you be more like your sister”. I knew what that meant. It made me try harder to want his attention. I wanted to be his special daughter for once! But it never happened. He paid special attention to my sister and gave her what she wanted. That caused a rift between she and I, and it made me dislike him. It caused fights and left me empty. So much so, that I did not think I would come up from this abyss. And when you feel like that about yourself, it translate to others and they begin to treat you that way. Needless to say, it took alot of soul searching and solitude for me become the woman that I am. No one can tell you how YOU should feel, but you. I love my father, but we are not close. And oh BTW, it did not help that I was thicker than my sister.
So as I went into my adult womanhood, I looked for anything other than a black man. I did not want one and knew (at that time) I would not be happy with one.
So whomever I could find was the answer. Wrong! I was settling for things that were not for me. Lets just say I had a wake up call and it let me know that I was on the wrong path. What I know now is to love who I am and be happy with everything god gave me. I am not quite full circle, but I am further along than I have ever been. It comes down to what others have been saying: “Love yourself and others will love you”. Its like the old adage “God does not give you more than you can handle”.
So if he sees fit to send me a wm, bm, am, hm….I think I should take what I have been given, explore from that and keep gettin up!
LikeLike
Brava!
LikeLike
Thank you Luna……
LikeLike
Who really cares what white men like. I hope it’s not some sort of implication tht Black women should try to behave a certain way, look a certain way to catch a white man. I don’t even really go for white guys. But, I get hit on them all the time!
LikeLike
Interesting that you have Heather Headley on the list of BW that WM would not find attractive and she IS MARRIED TO A WHITE MAN.
LikeLike
Kendra Says:
“Who really cares what white men like. I hope it’s not some sort of implication tht Black women should try to behave a certain way, look a certain way to catch a white man. I don’t even really go for white guys. But, I get hit on them all the time!”
Kendra,
I think I’m like many black women who find this site. I am a catch. I am well traveled, well read, intelligent black woman.
However accomplished black me show little or no interest in me. But accomplished white men do. The question for me was, “Why?” This site has help me understand half of the equation. It would disappoint me to discover the reason black men are put off by me because I am not the preferred hue.
LikeLike
I am so happy to run into a blog that has addressed all of the pros and cons of being b/w dating wm.
I myself am a mixed black woman who looks like Stacey Dash..I am tall 5’9 and slim with a butt lol, and have always loved and respected brothers but yet have been asked out repeatedly by guys of other races. I have always heard the same comments that you are skinny, or I am an oreo, or I talk white etc… by brothers! So I have not given up on black men but I have decided to go where I am wanted.
I have faced a lot of flack from co-workers, and extended family due to my decision. After reading all of the posts on here I feel that I no longer feel alone in my feelings and thoughts. I am so glad to see people that are intelligent as well as well-informed on this matter. I wish that most of America had this maturity and openness to ir dating for wm and bw.
I am loving the fact that this blog shows that in spite of whatever complexion, size, and/or shape of a b/w that we all face the same hangups and degradation by the media. I wish that there were more accurate representations of us in the media so that white males like Azraeyel would not feel like they have to be schooled in race relations before approaching us. I feel like the rest of you, that we are women and irregardless of what our complexions, background, or location that we just want someone who can value and love us for being us.
It was not too long ago that a man had a dream that we would all be judged by the content of our character instead of the color of our skin. It is just sad that America still idealizes white beauty (which is definitely not a shared semtiment worldwide), and demoralize the black woman such as (Sara Baartman).
Anyways, I like and will continue to like dating white guys. I believe that they (figuratively) like black women have much to gain from the relationship.
So much kudos to you Abagond for this blog…:-) I am loving all of your posts especially Luna and Black&German.. Some of the things you two have posted were things that I have said, thought, and said again.. lol
LikeLike
Thanks. If you have any suggestions for posts, let me know.
LikeLike
I love this blog.I read a LOT more than I write. Luna and I always seem to be on the same page. Azraeyel,he wants to learn about the black culture first. Well, I am 51 yrs old and I have dated black women all of my life, and I don’t know that much about black culture. My interest was always in THE woman. Friends have always ask me,”What is about the black women?” I could not give them an answer. I never tried to analyze my feelings. Now, I am married to the most beautiful,wonderful, and amazing woman. She just happens to be black. I would not trade her for a farm in Georgia.
LikeLike
Aaaaaahhhhhhhhh… Oh, Rick, that’s so sweet! She is a lucky woman.
LikeLike
“Azraeyel,he wants to learn about the black culture first.”
My husband didn’t know diddly squat about black culture when we met. Didn’t make a difference. I actually am glad about that because he didn’t have many preconceptions/prejudices about black people. And I like that he has such pride in his own culture and traditions while at the same time having interest in and respect for mine. That makes our life more interesting and allows our children to have the best of both worlds.
Ms EnJ:
Thanks!
“I wish that there were more accurate representations of us in the media”
So do I. Although it seems to be getting better. Slowly.
LikeLike
“I myself am a mixed black woman who looks like Stacey Dash..I am tall 5′9 and slim with a butt lol, and have always loved and respected brothers but yet have been asked out repeatedly by guys of other races. I have always heard the same comments that you are skinny, or I am an oreo, or I talk white etc… by brothers! So I have not given up on black men but I have decided to go where I am wanted.”
What’s wrong with some of these black men? From your description, you are probably very beautiful, but these guys choose to call you names (too skinny, oreo) instead of appreciating you? I agree – it is best to go where you’re wanted!
LikeLike
MsEnJ says,
I feel like the rest of you, that we are women and regardless of what our complexions, background, or location, we just want someone who can value and love us for being us.
ramblinrick says,
Well, I am 51 yrs old and I have dated black women all of my life, and I don’t know that much about black culture. My interest was always in THE woman.
Black&German,
My husband didn’t know diddly squat about black culture when we met. Didn’t make a difference. I actually am glad about that because he didn’t have many preconceptions/prejudices about black people. And I like that he has such pride in his own culture and traditions while at the same time having interest in and respect for mine.
laromana says,
I strongly agree with the main point MsEnj, ramblinrick, and Black&German have made in their comments. It isn’t NECESSARY for a WM/NON-BM to KNOW EVERYTHING about Black culture BEFORE he decides to pursue a serious dating or marriage relationship with a BW. What IS NECESSARY is that an interested WM/NON-BM have RESPECT for BW/their culture/humanity/dignity/femininity and that he VALUES/LOVES BW as INDIVIDUAL HUMAN BEINGS (just as he would ANY WOMAN of ANY RACE).
LikeLike
Luna,
Thanks, but I’m the lucky one.
LikeLike
I have a new post that some on this thread might like. It is about how white men approach women and how that affects their getting with black women:
LikeLike
Black&German:
“Azraeyel,he wants to learn about the black culture first.”
My husband didn’t know diddly squat about black culture when we met. Didn’t make a difference. I actually am glad about that because he didn’t have many preconceptions/prejudices about black people.
I have a question…learning about black culture gives preconcieved notions or prejudices?
I love my culture and with that comes the bad and the good…..I think loving you is loving all of you.
Getting to know how someone, us getting to know how someone ticks….
It doesnt matter what you have in you, if your culture is there; its there.
LikeLike
“I have a question…learning about black culture gives preconceived notions or prejudices? ”
Not necessarily. But a lot of people who live in America get a skewed version of black culture. The only know the “bad”.
LikeLike
Just the other day, a white women asked me did I think our FLOTHUS was attractive and I answered yes, that I thought she was beautiful. Well, that wasn’t enough for her. She responded by saying that she thought she was ugly and that out POTUS should have chosen someone like me or any woman who she thought was more attractive. I asked her just because of her darker pigmentation, was that the reason she felt she was not attractive? She never said another word. She was subconsciencelly practicing the art of being predujice and had not noticed it.
LikeLike
I am a black woman who is lives in Africa and am can call myself light skinned.I have a girlfriend who is dark skinned and skinny and whenever we are together,WM always look at her and hit on her and not me …sometimes they do hit on me but its on rare occassions.
I would say am medium built and it surprised me that when I went to Europe I was hit on by most WM I met…I had two men come up to me(different occassions)and they were Americans and both of them found me attractive.One said,am exotic with my full lips and high cheek bones and the other said he found me attrcive because I spoke English so well and was beautiful.He seemed to particularly like my ass(which in my opinion isn’t really small)
When most WM come to Africa,they usually go for the model slender type with dark skin…I think to them,an African woman should be dark but necessarily with black features!
LikeLike
Rose Blue said:
Just the other day, a white women asked me did I think our FLOTHUS was attractive and I answered yes, that I thought she was beautiful. Well, that wasn’t enough for her. She responded by saying that she thought she was ugly and that out POTUS should have chosen someone like me or any woman who she thought was more attractive.
In point of fact, when Barack Obama was growing up ONLY BLACK GIRLS would date him. White girls and Asian girls would not give him the time of day.
LikeLike
A friend back home said he couldn’t believe I voted for a black man. (I could not believe he could vote for 4 more yrs of what we had suffered through for 8 yrs) I told him I voted for the white half.
LikeLike
kitterpuss Says:
I love my culture and with that comes the bad and the good…..I think loving you is loving all of you.
Getting to know how someone, us getting to know how someone ticks….
It doesnt matter what you have in you, if your culture is there; its there.
kitterpuss,
I certainly understand your questions. Truthfully, if my wife told me I had to learn about black culture before we married, we would not be married today. It’s about HER. A woman I love that happens to be in black skin. Hell, I know very little about my own culture. It’s all geographical.
LikeLike
I also understand what you are saying…ramblinrick…but my culture is who I am..and if you are marrying her because you don’t see that…Then who is in denial? It is just not her skin you are marring…It is everything that makes up that person..and wether you want to believe it or not …or wether SHE wants to believe it or not…your culture is there…it is the things you do..the things you say…a way of being…and most of the time it is son ingrained..its subconcious……
LikeLike
“I told him I voted for the white half”
LOL!
“but my culture is who I am..and if you are marrying her because you don’t see that…”
My culture is only part of who I am. My husband didn’t marry my culture, he married me. He’s my best friend and I believe we would have clicked even if I’d been white, or Asian, or whatever. I think culture can color your habits or the way you think but it won’t necessarily change your soul or personality. The part that makes you YOU. It’s not as if one BW is interchangeable with another just because they share a culture.
A friend of mine is Slovakian who married a German guy. He didn’t know anything about her culture, language, music, etc. before marrying her, although he’s since made an effort to find out (and even converted religions!). And, trust me, there’s a LOT bigger difference between Slovakian and German than between black & white Americans.
LikeLike
kitterpuss,
I agree somewhat, and also disagree to a point. You are making my point. I married HER. I did marry her skin, her culture, and I certainly did not marry the whole black race. We are not so naive to think culture is not important, just with us it is the last thing on the totem pole. Another reason I said what I said, some white guys on here say they must learn black culture to date a black woman. What are they saying? All black women are the same? We know that’s not true. I used to beat up on myself because it seemed like I wasn’t doing enough to change the world. Then I realized, I’m ok, the rest of the world is messed up and I can’t change it. My wife has experienced racism and mistretment by white people first hand. She certainly is notoblivious to it. What’s important, the two of us are together.
LikeLike
That is all I was asking for….a little clarification….sometimes people are not seeing the whole picture…There are some things that are common…but we are different personalities…and different people and there are people out there that think we all are the same…it bugs me because of the ignorance….I just wanted to make sure….thxs…Ram
LikeLike
And if it makes any difference…white or black men do not go for me!…..I wonder if it something in the water?…..LoL!
LikeLike
kitterpuss,
I suspect that’s not true.
LikeLike
hmm….I don’t know…Maybe I am not drinking enough?…lol!
LikeLike
just kidding…:-)
LikeLike
where in the world is abagond?
LikeLike
I am here, Peanut. What is it?
LikeLike
Black women are not cultural robots but neither are they white women painted brown.
LikeLike
I agree with Black&German… everywhere I’ve been outside of USA, I’ve always attracted men of every race… even in China! I can remember going to Turkey with another friend of mine who is BW and the men were mobbing her, running after her, asking her to dinner, etc… she was so overwhelmed with the attention bcuz back in the USA, she doesn’t get that type of attention. Yes, I think the WM in USA are weird. No offense to WM.
LikeLike
Turkey is an interesting case: “white” Christian Europe has long been its enemy and even now many whites in Europe act like the Turks are something found on the bottom of their shoes. So Turkey is not a huge fan of “whiteness” from what I understand.
I was in Italy and Turkey last year. The Turks seemed less racist, though admittedly it is hard to tell from a short visit.
LikeLike
abagond Says:
Turkey is an interesting case: “white” Christian Europe has long been its enemy and even now many whites in Europe act like the Turks are something found on the bottom of their shoes. So Turkey is not a huge fan of “whiteness” from what I understand.
I was in Italy and Turkey last year. The Turks seemed less racist, though admittedly it is hard to tell from a short visit.
Turks are a mix of Turco-Mongolian (east asian) and many white peoples (Slavs, Greeks, Arabs etc.)
What did you think of the women in Turkey? I’ve seen some and they are just…….. wow!!!
That mix of genes sure didn’t do any harm.
asset Says:
I agree with Black&German… everywhere I’ve been outside of USA, I’ve always attracted men of every race… even in China! I can remember going to Turkey with another friend of mine who is BW and the men were mobbing her, running after her, asking her to dinner, etc… she was so overwhelmed with the attention bcuz back in the USA, she doesn’t get that type of attention. Yes, I think the WM in USA are weird. No offense to WM.
I’m not suprised by that. Turkish men love women period. In fact Turkish women love black men. As I said most American men (of all races) have serious issues when it comes to women and race (and a lot of other things.)
LikeLike
“Yes, I think the WM in USA are weird.”
Agreed.
LikeLike
asset says:
I agree with Black&German… everywhere I’ve been outside of USA, I’ve always attracted men of every race… even in China! I can remember going to Turkey with another friend of mine who is BW and the men were mobbing her, running after her, asking her to dinner, etc… she was so overwhelmed with the attention bcuz back in the USA, she doesn’t get that type of attention. Yes, I think the WM in USA are weird. No offense to WM.
laromana says,
Black&German and asset,
Thanks for confirming the FACT that BW are considered ATTRACTIVE/DESIRABLE by MANY NON-AMERICAN men. It is TIRESOME and FRUSTRATING to CONSTANTLY be treated like 2nd CLASS/INVISIBLE women in America, just because you are a BW.
LikeLike
As a Black male living in america and working in a mixed middle/lower class community at Target I love women and love to flirt with them, Our store guest are made up of 65% black, %35% white, and %5 hispanic.
Throughout my daily flirtations I have observed a few things during my daily work day:
First of all I notice The white women who come in barely speak and keep they’re heads down when I speak to them and they are usually dressed in sleep-wear..no not sexy lingirie but dirty pajama pants and baggy t-shirts and they’re feet are always dirty and toenals never done and the bottom of they’re feet be crusty, they just be lookin’ bummy, and some of em’ be with brothas..and they look even bummier (real talk!).
Now the mexican women who come in, they move quickly about the store and get what they gotta get, they appear anti-social but always speak when spoken to (I like that) even if theres a language barrier..everyone understands “hello” and the mexican women will smile and look at you in the eye when they speak then quickly lower they’re heads and go about they’re business.
Now the black women first and foremost are always dressed better than the aformentioned women, they’re hair is always done and they always speak and most will stop and hold conversations and some even give me they’re cell number (cause I’m smoooove like that). And lord they come in all shapes and sizes, and all the sizes look GOOD on ’em! each induvidual woman carries herself in her own induvidual way and beleive me baby its some beautiful sights to see up in there (this Target store is on the southside of Chicago by the way) thats why I tell all my friends..if you wanna see some fine black women go to Targets or Wal-marts.
You hear white folks say all the time how mean black women are..shit not from my perspective, all the black women I meet on a daily basis are more personable than all the other nationalities I’m surrounded by and I live in the heart of the inner city, where supposably everybodys a “gangsta” and a “ho”, man people just dont understand black women thats all, thats why they scared of ’em.
Black women are the most nicest, beautiful, wonderfull, life-filled, spiritual, logical, non-thretning, accepting, honest, loving, realistic women I know! And I put that on my mama
LikeLike
Thank you, storeclerk. We don’t hear those things often enough.
LikeLike
Man all you people in here are talking about nothing, whats this black women white guy bull thats why the world is like it is because you guys are making a topic about skin color light are dark, white are whatever your Beautiful because whats inside and whats out not how light or dark are how long, or straight your hair is be happy with yourselfs and there will be no need for this conversation. Us black women are all beautiful every shape of black no matter what some people might put into there own heads of how they think the world works peace.
LikeLike
jadeni,
We are here talking about the black woman/white guy because we choose to be here discussing it. We have that right, as you do to be here and say whatever it is you want to say. I do not agree the world is the way it is because we are having this discussion. The world was f@#*ed long before this blog was started. Racism was here LONG before any of us were born. Everyone contributing here seems to have a positive attitude, so no matter what we talk about it is a good thing.
LikeLike
What an interesting dialogue… The only overall common denominator I’ve observed is that most WM date BW who are quite slender, if not straight up THIN. (hellooooo gym membership haha) Interestingly enough though, there’s an older WM who seems interested in me- thighs and all (I’m 28). 🙂 How does race and AGE play into this equation? Sorry if this was covered before, I didn’t read all of the above posts… 🙂
LikeLike
“I notice The white women who come in… they are usually dressed in sleep-wear..no not sexy lingirie but dirty pajama pants and baggy t-shirts and they’re feet are always dirty and toenals never done and the bottom of they’re feet be crusty, they just be lookin’ bummy”
YES!!!!!
It’s like that here, too. The colored women (East Indian, black, Hispanic, Asian) are dressed nicely or are at least NEAT whereas it’s rare to see a WW who doesn’t look like she just rolled out of bed. I don’t understand it at all. Some of them have pretty-potential but they insist on looking sloppy.
Maybe the white guys “holla” at us so much because we’re the only ones that they can easily identify as female. The WW are wearing camouflage.
Although if a half-way decent WW walks by traffic will literally SLOW DOWN. It’s really funny to watch. Look out, boys! There’s a live one!
And I live in a upper/middle-class, majority white area. A college town and the students are the worst culprits.
LikeLike
I remember when I was a child women dressed up just to go shopping. You might think they were going to church. If they left the house they were dressed!
LikeLike
No it’s not a good thing the more you feed into the whole (race) think is the more people look at you because of your skin color, there is no race theres just all different shades, sizes, and styles and if you guy by that theres no need for it to be a topic like this.I seen all different shades dress a mess and some real neat so it has nothing to do with your skin color so you all really need to throw that out and find something more important to discuss. Well bye you guys hope you have a good and safe weekend good talking to you:)
LikeLike
“I remember when I was a child women dressed up just to go shopping.”
Yeah,no kidding. European women still do this.
It’s not like this all over America, though. In DC and Annapolis pretty much everybody at least looks neat.
LikeLike
are you crazy? i’m a white dude and i LOVE sade. i’d marry her today. i’d go down on her for 3 hours or until i suffocated (whichever came first – unless she “came” first).
and phylicia rashad, too, i would have totally dated, done, and married (in the ’80s, anyway, when she was still hot).
i agree with you that most of us white guys don’t dig black girls at all. but your ideas of the few black girls we do dig are WAAAAYYY off.
sade? man, she is so smokin’. i can’t get over that.
LikeLike
Clayton Abernathy wrote: “i agree with you that most of us white guys don’t dig black girls at all. ”
Why not? You said ‘us white guys’ so now you get to be the voice of your entire demographic. 🙂
LikeLike
Right on clt294,
Clayton Abernathy certainly doesn’t speak for me.
LikeLike
Clayton Abernathy:
Have you ever seriously dated a black woman, as in she met your mother as your girlfriend?
This post is not about what most white men like in black women. That turns out to be different than what white men who seriously date black women like, which is the subject of this post.
LikeLike
the storeclerk:
Wonderful comment. Thank you!
LikeLike
abagond,
I appreciate your comments to Clayton. A lot of people will judge all white men by those stupid comments. According to Clayton, white guys that like black women, all like the same few black women.
ding dong ding dong.
LikeLike
Clayton Abernathy says:
are you crazy? i’m a white dude and i LOVE sade. i’d marry her today. i’d go down on her for 3 hours or until i suffocated (whichever came first – unless she “came” first).
and phylicia rashad, too, i would have totally dated, done, and married (in the ’80s, anyway, when she was still hot).
i agree with you that most of us white guys don’t dig black girls at all. but your ideas of the few black girls we do dig are WAAAAYYY off.
sade? man, she is so smokin’. i can’t get over that.
laromana says,
These comments are a good example of the type of WM (ALL BW SHOULD AVOID LIKE A DISEASE) who doesn’t really RESPECT the HUMANITY, DIGNITY, and FEMININITY of BW, but rather views them as objects to be used as sexual toilets.
LikeLike
Thank you laromana. My point is, I don’t think these idiots think this way just of black women, it’s all women. Can you just imagine what he must think of his mother?
LikeLike
You’re welcome,ramblinrick.
It is scary to imagine what this sick dummy thinks of his mother.
LikeLike
I’m a SWM who has been attracted to black females ever since the 5th grade,but didn’t start dating black females until I was in my mid-20’s.For me,I don’t have a specific type of black woman I’m attracted to.The ones I have dated(and the one I was engaged to)were either slim or thick or full-figured.To me,black women carry their weight better than other women of other races,so it doesn’t matter to me.It all depends on the person,too,like if they have a good personality and attitude,which is more important.I can’t pick one black woman that I’m attracted to more than others because there are so many to choose from(different shapes,sizes;etc.).Black women are unique and one of a kind.To me,there is nothing more sexy,more sensual,more stimulating,more erotic and more beautiful than a black woman.I’m not saying women of other races are not attractive,it’s just that black women turn my head around quicker.
LikeLike
I remember a incident that my mother and I went through when she thought that I was dating a wm…..I got dressed to go to a party one evening with some of my friends and everything was fine because I left with my friends…But I did not come home with them. Someone (who happened to be white) dropped me off at home. When she could look out of her window and see who it was, she went into a tirate….she grabbed me and threw me against the wall and put a two prong fork against my neck and told me that she never wanted to see me with a wm ever again…they were not for me…I find that interesting considering she raised me to love everyone….but I must say it did not put me off of exploring what I wanted to. I dated a variety of men and I loved doing it! I always thought of it as having options…lol! But to this day she does not remember the incident…I don’t bring it up and I am still the same loving person I have been since I was five years old…:-)
LikeLike
Jesus christ!
Did I seriously just read what Gary wrote… and is that seriously supposed to be a compliment?
When will people some people stop thinking that in order to prove how much they like something, they need to denegrate other things.
That post reads like a fetish.
LikeLike
Soul,
I have been waiting for someone to jump on GB’s comment. I guess he thinks he is the only white man that ever said that.
LikeLike
“asset Says:
Wed 23 Sep 2009 at 03:52:35
I agree with Black&German… everywhere I’ve been outside of USA, I’ve always attracted men of every race… even in China! I can remember going to Turkey with another friend of mine who is BW and the men were mobbing her, running after her, asking her to dinner, etc… she was so overwhelmed with the attention bcuz back in the USA, she doesn’t get that type of attention. Yes, I think the WM in USA are weird. No offense to WM.”
In my experience a woman of any colour should not read too much into being chased by the Turks over there. If you are not chased some questions may need to be asked.
Also, Bria Myles is attractive although I have no idea who she is.
LikeLike
this is crap..heather headleys husband is white man.. what are you a black man trying to put down black women? this whole thing is so stupid just let it go
LikeLike
‘I’m a SWM who has been attracted to black females ever since the 5th grade,but didn’t start dating black females until I was in my mid-20’s’.
Why haven’t you married a black women? You talk about what attract you to them (fetishize more like). You have dated them but not married any. Why?
LikeLike
Herneith says:
‘I’m a SWM who has been attracted to black females ever since the 5th grade,but didn’t start dating black females until I was in my mid-20’s’.
Why haven’t you married a black women? You talk about what attract you to them (fetishize more like). You have dated them but not married any. Why?
laromana says,
Herneith,
Your question is excellent. On Siddity’s blog, she’s posted dating site survey results that indicate that BW have the HARDEST time finding men to establish SERIOUS, LONG TERM DATING RELATIONSHIPS that lead to MARRIAGE.
Personally, I have a life time of NON-BM “finding me attractive” and initiating “CASUAL relationships” with me that NEVER led to MARRIAGE (which is my ultimate goal). What I’ve found is that the NON-BM who have pursued me have allowed ANTI-BW RACISM and/or ANTI-BW COWARDICE to determine whether to establish a COMMITED , PERMANENT relationship with me.
What really infuriates me about these NON-BM is that they have NO PROBLEM dating/marrying OTHER NON-BW.
LikeLike
Personally, I have a life time of NON-BM “finding me attractive” and initiating “CASUAL relationships” with me that NEVER led to MARRIAGE (which is my ultimate goal).
Tell you what worked for me (I am going to get so hated on for writing this but here goes):
You know how Roissy writes about “game”? Well, women need game, too. Men are so jaded about women and so lackadaisical about marriage that they sometimes need some incentive.
Keep your legs closed. Really. But don’t play the “virgin until death”/”cold fish” routine because that can turn them off. After all, they want to know if the “prize” will be worth the effort. Or, as the Germans say, “Nobody wants to buy a cat in a bag. They all want a peek first.” Your goal is to torture them into desperation with drips and drops of sex.
Play relatively chaste most of the time and every once in a while (preferably if it’s really late or you’re inebriated — but not drunk! — so that you have an excuse for “slipping up”) let them get ALMOST THERE and then break it off with, “Oh, I just don’t feel right about this.” “I feel like you don’t take me seriously. Is this just about sex for you?” “I worry about being hurt.” You get the picture.
Men are stupid like that. They know that you’re just fooling with their heads but they can’t help but react by chasing you. And then after a couple of months (in my case it only took weeks) of driving him crazy, give it up and have fantastic sex. All night. If he passes out, wake him up and shag him again.
The next evening have an abrupt and tearful epiphany complete with confessions of “I wasn’t raised this way. I feel like such a slut — so used. I was trying so hard to be good and last night just ruined everything. It was so wonderful and I love you so much but…” and then announce, “I really feel like this relationship isn’t getting anywhere. I’m not getting any younger. Maybe we should start seeing other people.”
At this point they will either drop you like a stone in disgust or go shopping for a very large diamond, preferably with a princess cut.
I am so cynical but I am now in possession of a large shiny rock and a gold band. Worked like a charm. I still treat him like this and he still laps it up and chases me around panting.
The married version entails wearing sexy — or no — underwear, dressing nicely, and then shooing him away when he tries to touch you. “I’m busy. The kids are looking. I’m so tired today.” Bend over occasionally to pick up microscopic specks of dirt off the floor. Accidentally brush up against him in the kitchen. Press your chest up against him while giving him a totally prudish “Welcome home” kiss.
And then, at the end of the day when he’s got total blue-balls, shag his brains out. Trust me, he’ll get up the next day and repeat the same thing over again. He’ll never tire of it.
Men are weird.
LikeLike
Black&German,
You had me rolling in the floor with your post(647). What’s so funny, it’s true! When I first met my wife our situation wasn’t quiet as you described, but almost. most men are creatures of habit and get comfortable in a routine. We need a little push from time to time. Thanks to her our relationship is anything but boring.
LikeLike
Black&German,
Usually, I agree with your perspective on various topics but, in this instance, I couldn’t disagree with you more.
Given the HISTORICALLY NEGATIVE STEREOTYPE that MANY men of ALL RACES have of BW of being “cheap sluts”, the LAST thing I would want to do is confirm that MYTH by playing the tease. Despite the fact that it worked for you (and perhaps in other ISOLATED cases), doesn’t mean this is a good strategy for BW in general.
If a man (of ANY RACE) feels a BW is “only good for sex and NOT MARRIAGE”, teasing him with the promise of sex isn’t suddenly going to cause him to want to MARRY her.
LikeLike
LOL! You know it is true! I was laughing writing it.
It’s funny because when I wrote that post I thought: I bet Rick’s wife is the same way. I can always tell because they’re the guys that gush about how wonderful their wives are. My dad’s another one.
LikeLike
laromana,
I may be wrong here, and B&G let me know if i have this wrong. It’s not like she’s talking about putting the ‘hook’ in a complete stranger.This is the man she wanted to be married to. She knew he wanted to be married to her, but he needed that little push I talked about. I never asked my wife to marry me. She TOLD ME we were getting married. She gave me a month to buy the ring and another month to marry. I bought the rings the next day and we were married the next week. I absolutely love these little ‘games’. Like I said, never boring. Men and women are not the same. A man will spend his whole life scratching his head with one hand and his ass with the other, and he will never figure out a woman. On the other hand, in less than a month a woman will know everything there is to know about a man. Ain’t it great!
LikeLike
‘Keep your legs closed’
Or, as my grandmother says; “Keep your legs crossed and you draws up”!
LikeLike
ramblinrick,
I can understand how the strategy you and Black&German are discussing may work in an ESTABLISHED RELATIONSHIP where the BW ALREADY KNOWS that her man is interested in MARRIAGE but just needs some encouragement.
The comments I posted had to do with BW looking for (but not finding) men (of ANY RACE) who want to establish SERIOUS DATING relationships with them that could lead to MARRIAGE but are encountering MOSTLY men (of ANY RACE) who are ANTI-BW RACISTS or ANTI-BW COWARDS.
LikeLike
If a man (of ANY RACE) feels a BW is “only good for sex and NOT MARRIAGE”, teasing him with the promise of sex isn’t suddenly going to cause him to want to MARRY her.
But isn’t that where vetting comes in? Vet, vet, vet. Be brutal about it. Ask things you want to know straight-out. You’re a catch so act like one. If he wants you he has to step up. And don’t sleep with anyone you wouldn’t want to marry!
This is one of the reasons to hold out for a while. If he’s not really into you he’ll eventually lose interest and start looking elsewhere. And it gives you a chance to take a good look at him before you become too intimate and lose your objectivity.
Teasing doesn’t help get a man who wouldn’t consider marrying you to propose, but it sort of speeds the whole thing up. The longer you let it drag on (I’ve known couples who have dated for over 10 YEARS and then just sort of drifted apart), the more comfortable he’ll get and the less leverage you’ll have. You’ll get into a rut, the romance will fly, and when you mention marriage he’ll yawn and say, “Oh, but Honey. It’s all so nice the way it is.”
The goal is to not let your relationship turn into a “long-term one” (you don’t want “serious” you want “permanent”) but rather to get him committed while he’s still in the “starry-eyed, I stay up all night dreaming about that woman and bore all my friends to tears talking about her” phase.
Rick, EXACTLY! I’d been in too many “serious relationships” (which rarely turn into marriage) and was sick of it. I’d known him casually for years before we started dating.
After he formally proposed you should have seen how shocked my husband was when I suggested we get married the next spring to give my American relatives time to make plans to attend the wedding. He was all riled up and ready to fly to Vegas that weekend. LOL!
He’ll tell you all about it except in his version he asks me to get married. He says the “informal” proposal doesn’t really count. LOL!
LikeLike
The comments I posted had to do with BW looking for (but not finding) men (of ANY RACE) who want to establish SERIOUS DATING relationships with them that could lead to MARRIAGE
Well, if they’re commitment-phobics then I wouldn’t date them anyway. Marrying men DO EXIST but they might be hard to find and they tend not to be as in-your-face. That doesn’t mean I’m going to waste my time with good-time-boys. All of the time and effort spent on good-time-boys is time and effort taken away from the search for a husband. Life’s too short and I’d rather be celibate than be someone’s sex toy. I’d had enough of that crap already.
I straight-up asked him on the second date if he believed in marriage. His answer took the better part of an hour and included his plans to have 2 or 3 children and travel to New Zealand on his honeymoon. He was in the running and got a 3rd date.
LikeLike
Or, as my grandmother says; “Keep your legs crossed and you draws up”!
ROFL! Grandma knows what’s up!
See, we “modern women” go about it all wrong. We give in too easily and then if we’re lucky enough that they marry us anyway we stop having sex with them as soon as we say “I do”. This is completely backwards.
You’ve got to (as my Oma used to say) “let him chase you until you catch him”. And then, when you catch him and have that gold ring on your finger, turn around and run away again, giggling. He’ll give chase again. In fact, he’ll be so busy chasing you he won’t even notice other women. “Women? What women? Oh, man! My wife’s wearing THAT today…”
My parents have been doing this dance for over 30 years and it’s still entertaining for them. Although a bit nauseating for everyone else.
My husband’s coworkers tease him about being “pussy whipped” and running home every evening but he’s too happy to care. And, in truth, they’re just jealous. They stay at work late.
LikeLike
Black&German,
Not sure where you got the impression that I (or other BW in my position) aren’t “presenting ourselves as great catches”. WE ARE NOT THE PROBLEM. That’s the point I’m making. I also didn’t claim there are NO MEN who want to MARRY BW.
What I am saying is that when MOST men (of ALL RACES) DECIDE BEFOREHAND that MOST BW are not worth pursuing for SERIOUS RELATIONSHIPS or MARRIAGE, it DOESN’T MATTER what a great person you are or how great your individual qualities are, you will encounter TOUGHER OBSTACLES, when looking for a spouse, than NON-BW who aren’t being PREJUDGED IN a NEGATIVE, RACIST way to begin with.
LikeLike
are not worth pursuing for SERIOUS RELATIONSHIPS or MARRIAGE, it DOESN’T MATTER what a great person you are or how great your individual qualities are, you will encounter TOUGHER OBSTACLES, when looking for a spouse, than NON-BW who aren’t being PREJUDGED IN a NEGATIVE, RACIST way to begin with.
LikeLike
you will encounter TOUGHER OBSTACLES, when looking for a spouse, than NON-BW who aren’t being PREJUDGED IN a NEGATIVE, RACIST way to begin with.
Yes, of course. I misunderstood your initial point. You know that I know that that is true. And I think we have to be that much more careful in the vetting process because of it.
Although I think patience is called for sometimes. I knew my husband for years and didn’t even notice him until I’d completely given up on men and just decided to work, travel, and enjoy myself. He was one of those many invisible “nice guys”.
It wasn’t until I decided that I wasn’t going to waste my time anymore and CHANGED MY GOALS and the QUALITIES I SEEK IN A MAN that I woke up and was like, “Hey, he’s cute. Why didn’t I notice him before?”
There are a lot of quality men out there looking for wives (they want to get married, imagine that!) but they don’t really get noticed. I used to work with a surprising number of quality men who lived in celibacy, sometimes for YEARS at a time.
We women seem to insist on fighting over the same 5 jerks. That’s our own special kind of stupidity.
Women are stupid and we watch/read too much romantic drivel. Forget “the spark”. Forget love at first sight. Truth is, nothing will make you love a man more than having him hold back your hair while you vomit up your morning sickness. Or him getting up at 3 am and hunting down a mosquito whose buzzing had woken you up.
But enough sappiness for tonight…
LikeLike
That’s a nice way to look at things black&german, but in reality men are not chasing women UNLESS its a NON-BW they are chasing.
I understand where you’re coming from but my experience has been different. You’re just looking in the wrong place. By that I mean the wrong “social circles” but you could also be in the wrong part of the country.
Perhaps this would belong in a post about “White men that black women like” but here’s what you’re looking for:
1.) The complete absence of swagger.. WM call this “game”. Guys with swagger are trying to project an image. That means that they care too much about what other people think. Avoid them like the plague.
2.) He’s an engineer, systems analyst, lab technician, middle-manager, mechanic, union worker, researcher, graphic designer, college professor, accountant, or something else that involves well-paid drone status. Avoid any man with a glamorous career like lawyer, doctor, marketing, corporate executive, etc. Self-employed men are “iffy” and have to be evaluated on a case-by-case basis.
3.) He’s good-looking but your girlfriends would describe him as “cute” rather than “sexy” or “hot”. He may actually be completely gorgeous but without the swagger nobody notices.
4.) He doesn’t “date around” and is looking for a serious relationship. He hasn’t been on a date in a while (maybe a long while, maybe even years), not because he “can’t get any” but because he’s picky and the behaviour of most women turns him off. He’s usually too reserved/shy to ask women out.
5.) He’s attracted to your intelligence and personality and spends hours talking to you.
6.) He’s into computers and/or computer games. He likes to read/watch non-fiction and science fiction. Trekkies and guys into Japanimation are a good bet.
7.) He’s a bit socially awkward. He’s not very good at hiding his emotions and his face is pretty much an open book. He doesn’t brag and his rare compliments are spontaneous and almost involuntary, but sincere.
8.) He has a geeky hobby like programming robots or remodeling old cars. He has circuit boards on his desk at home.
9.) He believes in God but isn’t very religious. He’ll attend church with you but probably won’t go regularly on his own.
10.) He is highly intelligent. The higher his intelligence the better.
Basically, he’s one of those guys you passed over in high school because he wasn’t cool enough.
Of course they don’t chase INITIALLY (these are the more reserved men, the “betas”). You have to take the first (and sometimes the second and, frustratingly, the third) step. Once you have their complete and utter attention the chase begins. Some of these guys are s…l…o…w to catch on, though.
LikeLike
This has post potential.
Is this the kind of white man that black women go for? Or is it the kind of white man that would go for a black woman?
It sounds more like Peter Norton or George Lucas, say, than Matthew McConahey or Robin Thicke.
Also sounds like the kind who are stereotyped as having an Asian fetish.
LikeLike
Is this the kind of white man that black women go for? Or is it the kind of white man that would go for a black woman?
It’s the kind of WM that would go for a BW.
Peter Norton is a good example. Strangely, Robin Thicke is as well. Remember he started dating her in high school and appears to be as infatuated and loyal as a German shepherd. For someone so famous he’s also introverted and he seems to do whatever he wants and doesn’t give a darn what others think. My boyfriend in high school was a lot like him. Good looking, a bit shy, talented artistically and musically, intellectually independent.
Also sounds like the kind who are stereotyped as having an Asian fetish.
I’ve got to say that I’m skeptical about the whole “Asian fetish” thing. In my experience, Asian women are marrying these guys because THESE ARE THE GUYS THEY LIKE. They really are smarter than us. ;-p And these are the guys most open to interracial marriage in general, in my experience.
And, you know how WM/AW marriages are the most stable and WM/BW are the runner up? I’m thinking it’s because they tend to be these kinds of men who make the best husbands. That’s my theory, anyway.
Matthew McConahey has “alpha male” written all over him. I’d take a pass. You notice he didn’t marry his baby mamma.
And don’t underestimate the importance of
10.) He is highly intelligent. The higher his intelligence the better.
Some of these guys are at the IQ>125 end of the spectrum (although their scores tend to be skewed toward the nonverbal end which is probably one of their problems in developing “game”).
They have enough difficulty finding a woman in that group that they’re less likely to be picky about superficial things. As long as she’s interesting, intelligent, healthy, and pretty she’s probably in the running. You can only afford to be picky about things like race, ethnicity, nationality, hair color, etc. if you’re shopping in the lower 90%.
Think about it, an IQ of 125 or higher would reduce you to about 10% of the population. And from that group you want someone pretty, interesting, charming, and fertile. That gets you down to about 7% of that group (you have the benefit that positive traits cluster so the women in this group are more likely to be otherwise attractive). Now, do you think you can afford to toss out all of the blacks, asians, latinas, native americans, etc.? Hell no! She’s in that group then she makes the cut.
Now she just has to go find that man and dig him out from behind his computer. LOL!
LikeLike
Black & German:
I am going to make your last two comments into a post, if that is all right with you.
LikeLike
Sure. Do you mind me monopolizing your blog? LOL! Maybe I should start my own and give you a break.
LikeLike
I do not mind at all: There is no way I would be able to write a post like that on my own and it certainly goes along with this one, which now has 667 comments!
LikeLike
which now has 667 comments
Half of them from me. LOL!
Anyway, I have to go clean up. I gave my kids play dough to keep them busy while I write and it looks like a clay pot exploded in my dining room now. Caio!
LikeLike
@Black&German:
You are one smart, wise woman! I so wish someone would have shown me your list (post #662) and explained it to me 20 years ago.
It’s great that many Black women understand that they’re a catch. However, many of us (not all, but many) grow up in households where it’s ingrained in us directly from our families that we have little worth and value because of our race (sounds like you didn’t have that problem!) That message is then compounded outside our homes. Until realizing that and dealing with that, our standards and expectations can be, not surprisingly, pretty low, and we can radiate a pretty negative vibe without even realizing it.
LikeLike
However, many of us (not all, but many) grow up in households where it’s ingrained in us directly from our families that we have little worth and value because of our race (sounds like you didn’t have that problem!)
Actually, no. I have the inverse problem. No man I date — no man on the planet — is good enough. My parents would find fault in Jesus: “Oh, I don’t know about that long hair. Makes him look a bit wild, don’t you think?” “His father’s a carpenter? Well.. that’s nice. It’s so… quaint.” “Born in a manger? What sort of poor breeding does that imply?”
LOL!
LikeLike
B&G,
Damn, woman! You are on the money with your list in post #662. Wow, I’m dumbfounded. It’s like you were describing my personality to a tee. With the exceptions of #6 and #8, I perfectly fit the criteria of each other trait.
The only problem is that I’m not white! LOL.
LikeLike
Hey Black&German
I think your comments works well for any women who are trying to get be the catch lol However, laromana comments stands truth that it can be very risky for Black women to follow your advice because of the stereotypes of Black women especially the jezebel type. I know your comment is based off women showing a little sexual interest without being slutty and not also being a virgin mary lol. However, Black women attempting this can be very risky because even if a Black woman on her behalf is not being a total slut or a virgin mary and shows a little sexual interest, that man with his stereotypical view of Black women would take her approach as being a freak and not marriage material. Then the problems with Black women dating starts all over again lol. So I appreciate your advice because I think it’s helpful to some women but Black women it might work for some but it is sorta problematic.
LikeLike
He, he. I have a knack for that, it seems.
All of the non-white guys I dated also fit this list. It also describes my (black) father to a tee. And that sexy Filipino guy? A network engineer who I met through friends because we were all really big on medieval fighting (which is like the most ultimate geeky hobby ever). Everyone had a persona and his was a Japanese samurai. He had the weapons and costumes and everything. My ex-boyfriend used to fight him (with real swords, no less) and it was just really cool.
These are precisely the guys that BW are NOT DATING. Which is why they complain about the lack of quality men. There’s no lack of quality men, they’re just out playing samurai on the weekend. *roll eyes*. They exist you just have to go dig one up. LOL!
I think #6 fits to you as you spend some of your spare time on here discussing mundane socio-economic topics. LOL!
Aaaagh! I’ve got to go again. There’s milk EVERYWHERE. I think she’s getting pissed off and it’s playground time. Til later!
LikeLike
LOL, B&G.
You’re right on. Well, I do read non-fiction but I’m bored to tears by sci-fi. So, I guess I halfway fit #6.
LikeLike
Black&German says,
These are precisely the guys that BW are NOT DATING. Which is why they complain about the lack of quality men. There’s no lack of quality men, they’re just out playing samurai on the weekend. *roll eyes*. They exist you just have to go dig one up. LOL!
laromana says,
I (and other BW like me) are attracted to INTELLIGENT, QUALITY NON-BM like the ones you described so your generalization that “these are precisely the type of guys BW are not dating” is FALSE.
Again, you seem to be discounting the FACT that in America, ACROSS THE SPECTRUM OF NON-BM who COULD DATE BW, MOST DON’T because they are either ANTI-BW RACISTS OR ANTI-BW COWARDS. THIS is what needs to CHANGE. Once ANTI-BW RACISM/ANTI-BW COWARDICE on the part of NON-BM in America towards MOST BW ENDS, then BW’s efforts to find QUALITY men of ANY RACE to SERIOUSLY DATE and MARRY them will be MORE SUCCESSFUL (as is the case with MOST NON-BW).
LikeLike
@Black&German. You are awesome, although I disagree with you on post #647. Phony breakups and prudishness are not the way to go about “catching” a man. Waiting ~20 dates (instead of the conventional 3; who came up with that shit?) is a great idea, but it shouldn’t be a game, nor should it be as scripted-out and manipulative as you make it sound. Emphasizing quality over quantity in sex life: same principle. You should do it because it makes both of you happy, but not to “game” him into submission.
Your list of 10 qualities in your ideal man is great. I think most of those apply for men seeking women as well. I’d take issue with #2 a little bit. Don’t rule guys out with “glamorous” careers, but don’t make a big deal out of it either. I know a girl who dated a $300k/year doctor and now only dates doctors. You don’t want to be seen as her, but you shouldn’t rule out all the doctors and lawyers.
On #9, I’d say that spirituality is a positive, but religious rigidity and intolerance are strong negatives. From my (WM) perspective, a woman of faith is ideal, but one who believes that billions of people are roasting in hell for not believing in Christ I would not date.
I’m in technology, and I’ve noticed that a large proportion of the best programmers I know are in interracial relationships. I think you’re right that men in the high-IQ set tend to be very open to IR, for the reason given. We are so selective on intelligence and character that slapping unnecessary racial criteria on our dating situation is something we can’t afford. I could realistically be a lifelong single just because women who meet my standards are extremely rare. I’m willing to assume that risk, rather than settling, but I take it seriously. So putting silly racial criteria on a marriage partner makes no sense, from that perspective.
I wrote about this here. I think most WM who date IR/internationally are doing so because it’s easier to find a quality woman. For example, I don’t know enough to compare racial averages between black vs. white, but averages are meaningless.
Here’s why: marriage material requires that a person excel in a number of variables– intelligence, physical attraction, integrity, spiritual compatibility, curiosity, culture. It would be a statistical disaster if the variables were independent– passable women would be extremely rare. Fortunately, they’re not; these variables are positively correlated. At least at the top, black women’s traits tend to be more strongly correlated (if she’s smart and attractive, she probably also has good values and is cultured) than whites are. The result is that there are a lot more straight-A black women (and it’s only the straight-A women who matter from a marriage perspective) than whites.
LikeLike
Black & German:
The post based on 622 and 624 is up:
If you have corrections, please email me.
Thanks!
LikeLike
‘See, we “modern women” go about it all wrong. We give in too easily and then if we’re lucky enough that they marry us anyway we stop having sex with them as soon as we say “I do”. This is completely backwards’.
What’s the biggest killer of a woman’s sex drive? Wedding cake! Seriously, many men use double standards when choosing a mate. Not for them the loose woman! A lot of them want women who are ‘unsullied’ (good luck in this day and age). If they can’t get a women with this attribute, then a woman with only little experience will do. The ‘loose’ women are for humping and dumping. Never mind that the man himself could be or is, wildly promiscuous. They do-not want a woman with a ‘vast’ history mothering their children for example.
With such racist stereotypes against black women in regards to their perceived sexuality, this may be a factor as to why most white men do-not marry black women. If you don’t fit into this stereotype, you are an exception. The exceptions as it turns out is the rule not these ‘loose’ women stereotypes they think they are!
Add to the equation that most want white children, possible family opposition, societal opposition, history etc, the average white man doesn’t have the testicular fortitude to cross those lines. Yes, some may fetishize and fantasize about black women, some may even date them and have intimate relationships with them, but marry and have children? No. White men who do so are relatively rare. I’ve seen this time and again. Too many black women talk or write about their own experiences to treat this topic as purely anecdotal.
This for the most part has everything to do with racism as they are imputing negative modes of behaviour to black women as other comments illustrate.
With that being said, I consider myself fortunate, as I have, for the most part, not really been that attracted to white men as a whole. I have never cared a whit as to whether or not they wanted to date or have some sort of relationship with me (I’ve had many approach me), however, to each his own. Sure I’ve seen the odd one who I did a double take on, but that was just in passing on the street..
I don’t like the racist aspect of the dynamics however, which appears to be inherent with many white men in relations to their perceptions of black women whether they wish to date, marry or whatever. If all things were equal, and it was just a matter of ‘preferences’, the disparities would not be there, your choices would be endless! They (choices) are not.
At this point in time, the level playing field is anything but. As for lowering their expectations, another stereotype? Perhaps many are holding out for a suitable mate, hence these complaints and observations. Could it be they aren’t being approached? This racist dynamic seems to be prevalent in American society and to a lesser degree in Canada where I am from.
LikeLike
Herneith,
Thanks so much for clarifying the main points I’ve been attempting to make in my posts on this topic.
There are MANY QUALITY BW who desire to be pursued for SERIOUS DATING relationships and MARRIAGE by QUALITY MEN of ANY RACE but, in America, MOST men of ALL RACES, INTELLIGENCE LEVELS, PERSONALITY TYPES, OCCUPATIONS, AGES, etc. are NOT CHOOSING BW BECAUSE THEY ARE either ANTI-BW RACISTS or ANTI-BW COWARDS.
REAL LIFE bears this out time and time again and THIS is what needs to CHANGE before BW have the SAME SUCCESS in relationships that MOST NON-BW have.
LikeLike
Good posts! And I’m always happy when they are long ones since it makes my overly-verbose-self feel like less of a freak.
Cless:
I disagree with you on post #647. Phony breakups and prudishness are not the way to go about “catching” a man.
I knew you would say that! I’m a bit of a drama queen. But all’s fair and all that…
Don’t rule guys out with “glamorous” careers, but don’t make a big deal out of it either.
I’d rule them out for the simple reason that these types of careers are rarely compatible with happily married life. Although I have to admit that, as a recovering Army brat, I’m a sucker for a man in uniform.
At least at the top, black women’s traits tend to be more strongly correlated (if she’s smart and attractive, she probably also has good values and is cultured) than whites are.
You know that I agree, of course.
Herneith:
(Just asked my hubby.) I don’t know about American men but German men expect their women to be “experienced” but not “sluttish” (as in, engaging in casual sex). They would be a bit intimidated by a virgin after the age of 20.
I avoid chronically promiscuous men and women like the plague. They are damaged beyond repair.
Yes, some may fetishize and fantasize about black women, some may even date them and have intimate relationships with them, but marry and have children? No. White men who do so are relatively rare.
They ARE rare. I agree. But they are rapidly becoming less so, I think. I’m waiting for the next Census. It should be interesting.
As for lowering their expectations, another stereotype? Perhaps many are holding out for a suitable mate, hence these complaints and observations. Could it be they aren’t being approached?
It definitely could be! So they have to approach.
LikeLike
laromana:
I’m just curious as to why men who aren’t attracted or won’t date a black woman are labeled as a racist or an anti-black woman coward.
Does this apply to every single man who has no interest whatsoever? As if they are supposed to like black women?
I’m just trying to understand what you mean when you say this.
LikeLike
maximus is azrazyel right?
LikeLike
@Herneith
I’m at least 2 standard deviations to the left in terms of slut-intolerance. I would never marry a woman who’s had a one-night-stand, and I’m pretty hardcore MRA.
I also really like black women. My experience is that, middle-class and above, educated black women are less slutty and much more likely to be marriage material. It doesn’t hurt that they’re physically gorgeous.
@laromana: I think most white men would date and marry a black woman. Not only that, but after dating a few, we usually emerge with a strong preference for black girls. 🙂 However, Black&German is correct that you’ll often have to be the pursuer.
Black girls are great because they’re fully American, but the middle-class black culture tends to inculcate really good values as well, which can’t be said of suburban white culture.
LikeLike
Yes peanut.
LikeLike
“I think most white men would date and marry a black woman.”
I respectfully disagree. Who is the “most”. “Most” as in who you know, or “most” as in the keyword “think”?
If that was true, it would be much more common.
JMHO
LikeLike
@Maximus: I think very few white guys approach black women, and very few women of any race make approaches.
I think a lot of men who are completely open to dating and marrying black women are still unlikely, for a variety of reasons, to approach them. Approaching a person you don’t know is already very awkward, and the interracial element probably puts it over the top for many white guys who would still readily date a black woman.
LikeLike
Cless Alevin,
I agree. What I have witnessed, a lot of white guys think they must have a ‘special approach’ to black women. They make it hard for themselves. Then there’s always, “what will my friends think?”
LikeLike
Cless:
I agree with your points about some white males being “gunshy” about approaching a black woman. Especially if he already thinks “yea, they probably don’t dig us anyway” or like you said “what will the friends/family think?” That interracial element can most definitely play a significant role in determining “if” or “when” they might approach.
Many and many more reasons can be noted here as well.
I believe many make it to be much more complex than it actually is.
Kinda like seeing an illusion one way, when “unknown” reality of it casts it another.
Nice blog you have going by the way.
LikeLike
@ramblinrick: My friends (and parents) know that I like black women, so I’ve never worried about that, but I understand that it could be a source of awkwardness for some guys.
LikeLike
Cless,
I am married to a black woman. Questions I have been asked by some white men are just ridiculous. Is it really pink, the really stupid stuff. I do white guys that would date black women, but they are afraid to approach them. They don’t want to say the ‘wrong thing’
LikeLike
ramblinrick, are they afraid we might put a voodoo curse on them or something?
LikeLike
Peanut,
I don’t know.Some white guys with good intentions seem to waste a lot of time trying to convince the lady they are not a racist. I’m not sure who they are trying to convince, the lady or themselves. Years ago a friend was really interested in this black woman. I thought he was hopeless. Actually she made the first move, and the second. (like B&G talked about) They have been married almost thirty years and eight children. I guess that voodoo curse must have been a doozy.
LikeLike
Hmmm…
New York seems to be alot more racist than the south at times…
LikeLike
I do agree than White men do seemed to be more attracted to a certain type of black woman, as far as marriage etc…and not just “dating” or “casual”…
LikeLike
am so happy to learn all these stuff. am a dark skinned woman from Kenya 5’7, average body and I’ve always wanted to date white guys but i thought they did not like my dark skin. Now that i know the truth, am going for it. thx guys 4 ur insight.
LikeLike
Cless Alvein says:
It would also be a better world if the beta males (many of whom love black women) would man up and make first moves more often.
Cless,
Thanks for making this point. I(other BW like me) have ALWAYS been ASSERTIVE/CLEAR about our interest in being in SERIOUS relationships with WM/NON-BM but have CONTINUOUSLY had MOST American WM/NON-BM (who claim to love BW) either REFUSE to APPROACH/INITIATE relationships with us or CHOOSE NOT to proceed to a more SERIOUS/PERMANENT relationship with us MAINLY due to either ANTI-BW RACISM, ANTI-BW COWARDICE or a combination of both.
LikeLike
People of both sexes can be assertive, and that’s the best way, actually. In general, it would be a better world if women (of all races) were more assertive when it comes to relationships. Assertive women tend to do best, in my observation. It would also be a better world if the beta males (many of whom love black women) would man up and make first moves more often.
Amen.
And it wasn’t that the guys weren’t showing obvious interest in me, just that they sometimes needed a little push to ask me out. Some of these guys have spent so much time waiting and looking that they completely forget how to pursue. You have to sort of give them a little shake sometimes.
Mention that you’re having a moving-house party and could use another strong man to help you out (strangely, the idea that there are OTHER STRONG MEN helping you out will make him more likely to agree). If you see him reading a book you’ve read at the library, offer him your review of it and ask him if he’s read any other of the author’s work. Ask his opinion about the art you’re looking at in a museum or which food tastes best at the bistro (this one works GREAT because men love to have you ask their opinion).
Just be careful who you chat up as it’s difficult to get rid of these guys once you’ve approached them. They’re like leeches that way and you might end up having to listen to their tedious voice for the entire lunch before you can politely shake them off and make an exit.
Okay, I’ll admit it. I’m a bit of a man-eater. But this stuff works like a charm. I’ve had men turn me down but usually because they have a girlfriend. And if they said no I just shrugged and went about my way. It’s not going to kill me to be rejected by some guy in a bookstore.
As for proposing marriage, I’m sure he would have asked me eventually. But “eventually” wasn’t good enough. I wanted to be married young, have children young, and then go back to my career. I didn’t want to just “shack up” for years and hope that he’d eventually get around to asking. Or do what some of the married women I know have done: shack up and then get pregnant to spur him on. I figure straight-out asking is a better method.
Although, I have to admit that my German blood probably plays a role. We’re all pretty assertive. We’d have to be or die virgins. Just call me Helga.
CONTINUOUSLY had MOST American WM/NON-BM (who claim to love BW) either REFUSE to APPROACH/INITIATE relationships with us or CHOOSE NOT to proceed to a more SERIOUS/PERMANENT relationship with us MAINLY due to either ANTI-BW RACISM, ANTI-BW COWARDICE or a combination of both
But sometimes, you know, they just don’t want you. It even, horror of horrors, happened to me. Repeatedly. Even guys I dated for years would dump me for somebody else. It’s not always racism or cowardliness. That’s why you should keep your legs closed. It keeps the “here due to inertia” types away.
And, really, if they are not in love with you and don’t want to marry you, you should be thanking them for not wasting your time and just move on. There are plenty more fish in the sea. Any minute you spend grieving over these guys is wasted time. And any bitterness you harbor afterward reduces your attractiveness.
LikeLike
ramblinrick says: “I don’t know.Some white guys with good intentions seem to waste a lot of time trying to convince the lady they are not a racist.”
I’m sorry its kinda funny that some wm are more afraid of bw than bw seem to be of wm…lmao. Historically its been the complete opposite, we’re the ones who should be afraid…lmao!!!
LikeLike
lol… cause i’m gonna whip something like this out on my first date with a white guy… http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/45a/584.html
yep, that’s the speech i’m going to make upon my first meeting lol!!
LikeLike
Black&German,
CONTINUOUSLY had MOST American WM/NON-BM (who claim to love BW) either REFUSE to APPROACH/INITIATE relationships with us or CHOOSE NOT to proceed to a more SERIOUS/PERMANENT relationship with us MAINLY due to either ANTI-BW RACISM, ANTI-BW COWARDICE or a combination of both
But sometimes, you know, they just don’t want you. It even, horror of horrors, happened to me. Repeatedly. Even guys I dated for years would dump me for somebody else. It’s not always racism or cowardliness. That’s why you should keep your legs closed. It keeps the “here due to inertia” types away.
And, really, if they are not in love with you and don’t want to marry you, you should be thanking them for not wasting your time and just move on. There are plenty more fish in the sea. Any minute you spend grieving over these guys is wasted time. And any bitterness you harbor afterward reduces your attractiveness.
laromana says,
You’ve TOTALLY MISSED the POINT of what I’m saying. I have NEVER been the type of women who “gives it up” to men in order to gain their acceptance. I’ve definitely adhered to the “keep your legs closed” maxim in my relationship approach. This is a NON-ISSUE for me.
Also, when I mention ANTI-BW RACISM or ANTI-BW COWARDICE as the reason for why my IRR’s with American WM/NON-BW didn’t work, it is because this was THE SOLE REASON these men ended our relationship NOT because of something “I DID WRONG”.
There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG (“bitter or unattractive” as YOU seem to imply)with NOT wanting to constantly be subjected to ANTI-BW RACISM or ANTI-BW COWARDICE in my IRR’S. It’s RIDICULOUS to conclude that “BW are somehow to blame” when MOST WM/NON-BM in America treat them in a RACIST, ANTI-BW manner.
Your comments seem to give the impression that since you may not have experienced ANTI-BW RACISM or ANTI-BW COWARDICE in YOUR IRR’S, it gives you the right to be DISMISSIVE of my experiences (and similar ones of other BW like me).
There is more than enough evidence in American culture, media, society to support the FACT that ANTI-BW RACISM and ANTI-BW COWARDICE exist and are affecting the way MOST WM/NON-BM in America treat their relationships with BW.
LikeLike
I have an honest question.
Are you people interested in white men?
Or you just let it be known publicly that you hate them?
I mean some people say some white men have a fetish for black women…..(roll eyes)
I understand the need to vent. But considering this is an interracial categorical type of blog, I don’t see why else black women are here.
Either you are interested, or it’s just a hate blog.
If some in here hate white men so much, why are you wasting your time putting emphasis and energy into this?
The topic is supposed to be “Black women that white men like”…not “Black women who show complete and utter hatred towards white men.”
I mean, some of you (keyword some) wonder why white men don’t want you. Look at you, constantly complaining and seeking to find every wrong there is instead of staying on topic.
Then the nerve to bash every white man that comes in here.
Then wondering why they don’t date (some) of you.
Good luck finding your mate!
LikeLike
Thanks Uncle Milton.
I already knew a few have/are dating/married to white men/man.
Some people called me a racist before and asked how I can be friends with a black woman.
I have admitted my faults.
But, some others I would never think a white man would want them….kinda like in reverse in (their) perception of me befriending a black woman. (roll eyes)
I made sure to put (some) and not all black women in here on my previous post.
LikeLike
@Cless Alvein
Let me clarify what I said. Many men have double standards when it comes to women’s sexuality. Some men can be wildly promiscuous. They don’t necessarily reveal this to a woman at the onset of a relationship, if in fact they ever do. However they look for the opposite in a woman and disdain any woman perceived as promiscuous. Yes, there probably is something ‘broken’ in the psyche of promiscuous people. Promiscuous people come in every stripe. No-one in their right mind would choose to knowingly marry or even engage in a relationship with promiscuous people, at least most wouldn’t . Besides people who engage in promiscuity, may have other issues that would make such relationships doubly toxic. I am saying that most men want a women who doesn’t have a vast history of sex partners not a totally inexperienced one. With that being said, what a man considers as promiscuous may vary from man to man. It may also depend on what their religous or cultural background is.
This is where racist stereotypes come in. If black women are perceived as being promiscuous as a group, many white men will give them a pass based upon these stereotypes.. Black women also have to contend with concepts of eurocentric beauty, Jezebel stereotypes, Sapphire stereotypes, ghetto ad nauseum etc. etc.. Most white men are socialized to think that white women are the epitome of beauty and the ideal woman. It doesn’t matter if these stereotypes are bogus, they are rampant. Sure the odd white man finds black women to be beautiful, erotic, exotic, intelligent and so forth. Plus, most want white children, they don’t want ambiguously white children either and they do care what society says. Hence, when many white men say they are not attracted to black woman they are telling the truth as this is how they have been socialized. My bone of contention derives from the racist aspects of these stereotypes against black women, and the subsequent negative effects on them. This is irregardless of whether or not they are attracted to white men, or would marry one if given the opportunity. If everything was fair and the playing field level, these stereotypes would never enter into the equations as to the whys and whereto fores. A preference would be just a preference, people wouldn’t question why this person is marrying that person and affix stereotypes to a whole group of women. This isn’t so currently. There is a reason that white men are the least likely to marry black women as compared to other racialized women. Why? Racist ideation whether conscious or unconscious and other factors play a role. It is a obviously complex.
LikeLike
Maximus,
This is a site for black women white men like. I think most black women here are datingg/married to a white man, or just curious. If not, they still have a right to be here as we do or anyone else. From my personal experience, I can say without a doubt. Black women are not complainers, whiners, and they do not snivel. They are VERY strong willed and will step up to the plate and take care of business. If they want to vent here, God knows they have that right. They can slam white men all they want, if it does not apply to me I don’t let it bother me. Black women are good women. If treated with proper respect, they are very loyal. I am speaking only of things I know to be true.
LikeLike
To Maximus:
I made sure to put (some) and not all black women in here on my previous post.
Yes you did, but the first and second sentences were:
“I have an honest question. Are you people interested in white men?”
Which sets the tone of your post. (And is about as far as some people will read…)
“But, some others I would never think a white man would want them….”
As I said, I think a number of women are venting..and would probably act different on a date.. and some aren’t interested in white men at all.
I think you are taking some of the comments personally… which I can understand… but if you are dating or are interested in dating black women and you are getting such an emotional reaction you might want to check lay off this site and check out other blogs by black people that are more mellow. I like this one:
http://undercoverblackman.blogspot.com/
This is David Mill’s blog. (he’s a write for the TV show The Wire..)
You could also read a few classic and current sociological books by black authors.
LikeLike
awww ramblinrick you’re so nice
LikeLike
Rick & Milton:
I really appreciate your guys help.
I was just trying to understand others better in here and try (not) to hastily judge.
I keep coming back because I am interested in others experiences so I can better myself (my own faults) as well as understanding others points of view.
Thanks again. (:
LikeLike
i don’t hate white men, i just think its silly for some wm to be so afraid of bw they don’t even give bw a chance. what’s the worst that can happen? she says no. shes’ not going to put a voodoo curse on you or beat u up, you’re probably stronger physically…so why be afraid. I think some wm are adorable and for the record, I have had some relationship/friendships with white males that have been great so dont’ get it twisted, i like any man who is nice to me, i just think that more wm need to open up and realize bw are women first and foremost and to be fearful of us is insulting to our femininity. we want to be desired and pursued and protected just like any other women
LikeLike
Peanut:
I’m sorry of the circumstances that you have/will or are facing. It is a major blow to black women.
The (white) media helps degrade and insult black (people) women in general. A lot of wm see MTV/VH1 etc. with (c)rap videos and say “oh, so that’s how it is?” It is a negative image that white guys see and don’t take the time to actually learn the (hidden) truth that is driven by white folks.
Too many of us judge accordingly by the media without getting to know black people individually. It is ignorance by white men (I am guilty as well) to use every degrading term in the book against blacks. It is truly shameful and I can admit I despise myself for saying and thinking things before.
I could write more about this but not up to it right now.
The true reason I keep coming back here after all that was said and done (by me, to others) is a want to understand people better to which can help better me as well in the same process. I feel sincerity towards others and I enjoy learning and possibly helping out any way I can.
Sometimes my true character is hidden by my outbursts and rages. My character (online) is a false parallel of me in (real) life. I feel I can become a better person and I am willing to better myself in understanding others.
Regardless of some people’s doubts, I am truly passionate about black women. None of the things I say here reflects me in real life. I’m not trying to prove anything to anyone here,(In reference to this post) I know what I say and say what I mean. If it’s taken with a grain of salt, so be it. (Understood)
I said when I first posted here that black women are most beautiful and gorgeous race of women. I stand by that indefinitely!
Nothing truly better than a strong willed, driven, focused, determined & passionate black woman!
They have had to endure so much for so long and it deeply saddens me of their shortcomings and ignorant people who cast every negative push against black women.
You are right. Black women are women and deserve much better and need to be loved, respected, cared for, desired, hugged, kissed, praised, told they are beautiful, told they are appreciated, told they are treasured, told they are loved and treated like so.
THIS is the true side of me. THIS is me in (real) life. Like I said, you can take this with a grain of salt to which I completely understand. I reflect this character of a true image of me.
May God bless & Peace.
LikeLike
its just being afraid of bw makes me think that some wm still have the old sapphire stereotyped ingrained in them. like they’er afraid we’re gonna be neck twirling, finger snapping, telling them off blah blah blah that’s all
LikeLike
that was nice maximus, very nice
LikeLike
and it doesn’t help that the media makes bw out to be ugly naturally. atleast when i was little and i grew up we had stuff like this to look at on tv
what a beautiful showcase of real, naturla and talented bw. Could you imagine them playing something like this now? We had toni braxton, salt n pepa, i know i’m only in my early twenties, but even i see a difference between perception of bw in the media now and then…
LikeLike
I stil remember dancing around to i’m every woman and doing cartwheels on our carpet and just loving the song, now all little black girls get to see is this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmSZJ17ppEQ
and that’s all little white boys see too. I mean if I was a little black girl growing up now, my mind would be even more screwed up than it is. I could look at stuff like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhPQx0zR0Ms little things like that make a big difference. I was looking at hip hop videos from the early 90s/ late 80s (back when rap actually made sense) and i was shocked because the women in the videos i actually saw attractive black women who looked like me and te women i see on a regular basis. you know nowadays the chocolate bw is never the love interest, you never get to see that. we’re made out to be masculine and domineering and ugly and its just unfortunate
LikeLike
i bet no one thinks of bw this way,looks how delicate and feminine they are…but no one wants to see bw that way
LikeLike
sorry for the rant, but i just get tired of people not seeing black women as real women. we need to be loved and cherished and protected too, why do we have to do every darn thing on our own, you’re te man you’re supposed to protect the woman…
LikeLike
I agree peanut.
I’m sorry.
I will comment tomorrow. Have to work in the morning and was letting you know I (heard) read what you said.
Have a good day.
LikeLike
dag..we had TLC when I was little, compared to now we were on easy street in terms of perceptions of bw
LikeLike
Peanut,
I checked out the link on post 724. WOW! does that bringback memories. Thanks
LikeLike
peanut says:
i don’t hate white men, i just think its silly for some wm to be so afraid of bw they don’t even give bw a chance. what’s the worst that can happen? she says no. shes’ not going to put a voodoo curse on you or beat u up, you’re probably stronger physically…so why be afraid. I think some wm are adorable and for the record, I have had some relationship/friendships with white males that have been great so dont’ get it twisted, i like any man who is nice to me, i just think that more wm need to open up and realize bw are women first and foremost and to be fearful of us is insulting to our femininity. we want to be desired and pursued and protected just like any other women
laromana says,
Thanks, peanut. This is exactly how I feel. BW just want to be pursued, loved, cherished, protected, and respected by men of ANY RACE like NON-BW are.
This is not too much to ask.
LikeLike
ramblinrick says,
This is a site for black women white men like. I think most black women here are datingg/married to a white man, or just curious. If not, they still have a right to be here as we do or anyone else. From my personal experience, I can say without a doubt. Black women are not complainers, whiners, and they do not snivel. They are VERY strong willed and will step up to the plate and take care of business. If they want to vent here, God knows they have that right. They can slam white men all they want, if it does not apply to me I don’t let it bother me. Black women are good women. If treated with proper respect, they are very loyal. I am speaking only of things I know to be true.
laromana says,
ramblinrick thanks for your very understanding, supportive, caring comments regarding BW. I’m very encouraged by what you’ve said. It’s clear that you truly know the TRUTH about BW and understand who we REALLY are.
LikeLike
Herneith says,
If everything was fair and the playing field level, these stereotypes would never enter into the equations as to the whys and whereto fores. A preference would be just a preference, people wouldn’t question why this person is marrying that person and affix stereotypes to a whole group of women. This isn’t so currently. There is a reason that white men are the least likely to marry black women as compared to other racialized women. Why? Racist ideation whether conscious or unconscious and other factors play a role. It is a obviously complex.
laromana says,
Herneith,
You’ve stated my sentiments exactly. I have ALWAYS HATED the RACIST, ANTI-BW LIES, MYTHS, and STEREOTYPES (that are a MAJOR part of how BW are/have been DEVALUED/DEMEANED in American society) because they have UNFAIRLY BIASED men of WM/NON-BM against us. This, in turn, has led to BW being rejected by WM/NON-BM when it comes to marriage.
LikeLike
736 posts!
LikeLike
ramblinrick says,
This is a site for black women white men like. I think most black women here are datingg/married to a white man, or just curious. If not, they still have a right to be here as we do or anyone else. From my personal experience, I can say without a doubt. Black women are not complainers, whiners, and they do not snivel. They are VERY strong willed and will step up to the plate and take care of business. If they want to vent here, God knows they have that right. They can slam white men all they want, if it does not apply to me I don’t let it bother me. Black women are good women. If treated with proper respect, they are very loyal. I am speaking only of things I know to be true.
laromana says,
I want to commend you, again, for understanding where BW are coming from when we attempt to address the NEGATIVE ANTI-BW attitudes/actions from many in American society. I think WM/NON-BW who want to learn how to view/treat/understand BW could learn a lot from your example.
I appreciate that, because you see BW as HUMAN BEINGS, you can understand WHY we are hurt/offended/disgusted by WM/NON-BM who treat us in a RACIST, COWARDLY, or otherwise ANTI-BW manner.
You also understand WHY BW might speak out AGAINST the many UNFAIR LIES, MYTHS, and STEREOTYPES that American society uses to DEMEAN/DISRESPECT/DEVALUE BW so that MANY WM/NON-BM won’t consider us for SERIOUS DATING and/or MARRIAGE relationships.
You are humble enough to NOT TAKE IT PERSONALLY when BW RIGHTLY CRITICIZE WM/NON-BM who treat us in a RACIST, COWARDLY, or ANTI-BW manner, because you understand that we ARE NOT directing these criticisms at WM/NON-BM who DO treat BW with RESPECT/DIGNITY.
LikeLike
“They can slam white men all they want, if it does not apply to me I don’t let it bother me. Black women are good women. If treated with proper respect, they are very loyal. I am speaking only of things I know to be true.”
this is something a real, secure man would say. Something a protector would say:)
LikeLike
Thank you laromana. Again, I speak only of my experiences. I dated a black woman that had a law degree. I have dated black women, I’m sure some here would call ‘ghetto’. But, I have seen the black single mom with three kids, work two FULL TIME jobs so her kids could grow up in a safe environment.
My wife has two kids in high school. Daughter is a senior, the son a junior. She told them years ago, each pick something they really wanted to do and she would see they were able to do it. The daughter decided on song and dance, the son chose art. The lessons were expensive, she worked her job and a couple of part time jobs to be able to afford the lessons. She would accept very little from me. She taught them, no matter how unfair life may be, you have to give respect to get respect. If you walk into a place to apply for a job, you really can’t expect people to take you seriously, if your pants are hanging below your ass. Both kids are very accomplished at their ‘hobbies’. They both already have academic scholarships. They’re very focused on their future, they understand work hard now, relax later. All the credit has to go to their mother. Their father was not a positive influence, not one word of encouragement. All he ever did was criticize. Mo Matter what challenges black women may face, they can always find something to laugh about.
Any white man, or any man for that matter, that thinks he is interested in a black woman, spend some time anf get to know HER. Don’t generalize and don’t be so quick to criticize. Realize ech black woman is her own person.
LikeLike
So is that what I sounded like before guys?
Eek!
LikeLike
Black & German’s experience does not surprise me either.
LikeLike
I agree with Soul. Lots of times even blacks try to be somewhat PC in discussing heated subjects like race and will soften the way their words come out because they don’t want to offend others or be thought of as angry or militant or a host of other labels tacked on to blacks.
LikeLike
Soul,
I see your point, but I agree with Gen and B&G mostly because this is an online blog, i.e., something that has to be sought out. I’m generally suspicious of people who continually seek out things they claim to dislike, so I can see how ERE’s posts can seem trollish to some.
On another note, I sense a bit of a double standard here. Wasn’t there some poster named Dave or Dan or something who got jumped on for “derailing a thread?” I don’t think talking about the evils white people falls under the category of “Black women that White men like.” Just some food for thought…
LikeLike
@jasmin..
I do;t get ur point.
okay so this is an online blog… it is not a blog about seeking white men is it?
What is she claiming to dislike but seeking out?. If you actually read who she is usually responding to.. it is those people who are continually claiming to dislike black women yet seem to be seeking them out.
The problem she is having is she is responding to trolls. and some times when you do that, other people can’t tell the difference.
But I’m really interested, could you let me know what it is she is claims to dislike, yet seeks out?. I might have missed it.
LikeLike
Soul,
That’s what I’m talking about, seeking out negativity specifically (in this thread out of 760 posts). I don’t see how spouting platitudes about White supremacy helps the cause, or why one would bother responding to trolls to the point that people worry about his/her health. Discussion is one thing, but basically saying the same thing over and over solves nothing, and if you hang around a blog long enough you tend to figure out who the trolls are and ignore them. I do at least…why bother with someone whose goal is to cause trouble and enjoy watching the implosion? On a personal level, you are doing what they want (thereby encouraging further trollish behavior), and on a practical level, they aren’t going to listen anyway. That kind of engagement seems more drama-seeking than anything else, whether it be the troll or the person who always responds.
On another note, I’ll agree with Mayhue(?) in that it’s hypocritical to get mad at someone saying “All Black women are X” then turn around and say “All White men are X”. To me those statements are 2 sides of the same ignorant coin, and a further indication, to me, of trollishness, since people who start statements with “All [insert race]…” tend to be up to no good.
LikeLike
Excellent comment!
I particularly like the idea of bringing racists back to their original statement and make them defend it without the usual BS.
We tried that on Saturday with James Smyth on “What to tell your children about racism” but he disappeared! He said that white families that go to amusement parks are in “mortal peril” from black amusement-park-goers. It starts here:
LikeLike
He said that white families that go to amusement parks are in “mortal peril” from black amusement-park-goers.
It’s finally happened. I spit my tea out all over my laptop. What a mess.
Abagond, you should have a warning before mentioning such a stupid and ridiculous post.
LikeLike
Soul,
I wasn’t highlighting ERE, I was responding to a comment someone else made about her. I guess we differ in that I don’t think trolls actually care to here what other people have to say, so I don’t see a point in acknowledging it (I usually skip posts with certain names on them). If I’m going to do anything to educate people (though I don’t think anyone here should feel like they have to take on the burden of “enlightening the masses”), I’d rather do it in the real world, because at the end of the day, this is just a blog. The real work to be done is outside of this computer screen
I think you make a good point here: Sometimes it’s hard to ignore falsitudes written about you and it’s sometimes even harder seeing everyone ignore or attempt to engage politely with a racist who has just spouted some crapola which you’ve been dealing with since 3rd grade, but what I think is crucial is knowing the difference between someone who is ignorant and someone who is just provocative. You might be able to get to the former, but the latter is going to keep coming back because you keep giving him what he wants, which is a reaction.
Abagond,
I can’t agree with this statement totally: I particularly like the idea of bringing racists back to their original statement and make them defend it without the usual BS. because I think racist trolls are trolls first. Their sole goal is to stir up s***. Since this blog rejects the idea of the inherent inferiority of Black people, it’s obvious that the easiest way to stir up said s*** is to say something racist. I’m not saying these people aren’t racist, but, for instance, if they went to a site about new moms they might talk about how all the babies are ugly and deserve to die or something weird. They know what buttons to push, I guess that’s how they have fun.
The best example I can give (without calling anyone out too obviously) is of the certain someone who claimed to like BW, but had never dated one, small town, etc. When the comments about BW in his area being ghetto came out, I thought the responses to that were interesting, well thought-out, and served a purpose. It appeared that he wasn’t trying to be racist, but obviously those statements were, and that wasn’t a healthy mentality for someone allegedly trying to be in an IR relationship. Now, when he kept riding the ignorance train I just threw my hands up at him and started ignoring his posts, because they wandered into troll territory, but the volume of his responses indicated he *likely* wasn’t an intentional s*** starter.
Now this James Smyth character is a troll. He shows up, says something inflamatory, and then disappears. Then he gets to sit back and watch the implosion. Does anyone really think he cares to learn? No, but he got a good 10 or so comments related to him out of it. Educating trolls is like trying to teach a newborn Chinese…not gonna happen.
LikeLike
If I’m going to do anything to educate people (though I don’t think anyone here should feel like they have to take on the burden of “enlightening the masses”), I’d rather do it in the real world, because at the end of the day, this is just a blog. The real work to be done is outside of this computer screen
How do you know if many of the people on this blog are not doing this in the ‘real world’? Also, why is the onus on racialized people when it comes to educating white people whether personally or en masse? One of the functions a blog serves, is to act as a forum for disparate or like-minded viewpoints to be voiced and expounded upon(subject of course to the particular blog theme). You are quite correct in that an individual can skip posts topics etc on a blog, none disputes that. People who come here to read and comment on topics do so to communicate due to the diversity of the commentators. Also, people tend to comment more freely on subjects due to the fact that this is a blog and is for the most part anonymous. At least more so than they would when interacting with others in the real world. For the people who find commonality in certain posts, this can be a boon. It also serves as affirmation of many lived experiences, that daily, lifetime experiences are not in their ‘heads’. In many instances expounding these views in the real world, face to face, is not possible as the person you are speaking with may not be receptive to whatever it is you have to impart, never mind ‘educating’ them. Information gathering derives from a myriad of sources. Academic journals, scholarly books, studies, media, blogs, Internet, and lived experience. All legitimate sources of information when taken in their totality. Of course it’s up to the individual as to how they process any information. Hence the varied viewpoints irregardless of their tone or tenor, even the racist ones.
what I think is crucial is knowing the difference between someone who is ignorant and someone who is just provocative. You might be able to get to the former, but the latter is going to keep coming back because you keep giving him what he wants, which is a reaction.
Is there a difference? That’s a matter of opinion as to what constitutes ignorance and provocation on a thread. The two aren’t mutually exclusive. What one may consider ignorant and provocative, another might think is “telling it like it is” and vice versa. Comments made are, whether agreed upon or not, in the mind of the reader. As you said, when you get the feeling from reading that someone is a troll, you can skip their posts.
I can’t agree with this statement totally: I particularly like the idea of bringing racists back to their original statement and make them defend it without the usual BS. because I think racist trolls are trolls first.
How do you know that the ‘Troll’ for all intents and purposes, no matter how aberrant their viewpoint may be, is doing what every other commentator on this blog is doing: expounding on the topic at hand and voicing their viewpoint? Again you can choose whether or not to respond. Many do, many don’t, what of it? They do it from whatever viewpoint they possess. The trolls no doubt know how to push buttons. But again, one can choose not to respond or push back no matter the motive.
Educating trolls is like trying to teach a newborn Chinese…not gonna happen.
?
LikeLike
Hmmm? I’ve been a little quiet on this subject. Confronting racism is very difficult because most people get very defensive and the conversation goes no where. One of the methods I use when confronted with racism is to ask questions. Calling a person a racist right off the bat is not going no where. So when they say something that is racist, you ask questions on what possessed them to say those things. So therefore they will tell on themselves instead of blaming you. Some may try but they know it doesn’t work effectiviely than someone calling them racist. You as the person asking them questions about their racist commentary, makes them realize the wrong in their comment and to the point where they can’t blame you. Unfortunately this has been effective in person than on-line. People sometimes do not know how to pick up on tones correctly so therefore people sometimes misinterpret easily on-line.
LikeLike
why is the onus on racialized people when it comes to educating white people whether personally or en masse?
Co-sign. I believe if a person truly wants to understand about a social issue they can very well educate themselves. I mean a person can seek knowledge so easily than before because of the power of the internet, lol. That’s not up to racialized people to educate white people if a white person really wants to understand about racism and how it works in our country.
LikeLike
dani
very good!
LikeLike
Herneith,
Who said the onus is on minorities to educate people? I feel like some people take that role on, then get mad when it doesn’t work. My question is, how is it logical to keep engaging with someone who you know won’t listen? The only benefit I can see is getting a pat on the back, either from yourself or from people who already think like you do.
But again, one can choose not to respond or push back no matter the motive.
So if one decides to “push back” knowing the other person is a troll, what is the goal, getting the last word? It’s obviously not to educate or engage in dialogue, so I roll my eyes when people try to act like they are beacons of racial equality when it’s obvious they just like the drama.
I don’t know what you didn’t understand about my troll/newborn analogy, so if you clarify I’ll address it.
LikeLike
@jasmine:
I don’t think most people come here in order to give their responses so as to effect a pat on the back. The anonymity of such a platform precludes this. This platform is not conducive to garnering praise or acknowledgement as it is anonymous. I am sure some do, most don’t. You will always get weirdos who will chime in with bizarre remarks such as the allegory you gave with someone going on the newborn forum and making incendiary remarks. It also depends on the degree of the blog owner’s moderation.
Others such as myself wish to exchange their personal experiences, commonality and histories or general knowledge etc. I am not a pedagogue so I am not here to ‘educate ‘people’ I am also not going to ascribe these motives to other readers/commentators for the simple fact is I don’t know what everyone’s motives are. Yes some are obvious, some aren’t. To me these ‘discussions’ are akin to sitting and having a coffee with people and discussing issues whatever the focus, albeit on a larger scale. I like the fact that people from diverse countries, cultures etc respond here. If a troll responds occasionally or frequently on some posts, what of it? Most often these posts provide fodder for comic relief as they are beyond bizarre(James Smyth anyone?). Many sound like a broken record. Sometimes you respond as Soul says, when blatant falsifications are made. In particular ,ones you frequently hear in the ‘real world’. Usually they are responding not for the benefit of the troll’s ‘education’ for the troll is not interested in learning anything as you say. They may be giving a counter-argument to offset the troll’s for the other readers so they can get a different perspective(which they can choose to take or leave). Logical or illogical, provocative or staid. This type of platform (blogs) will always attract such as it is but an aspect of blogging by the very virtue of its anonymity. The anonymity of a blog, the informality and such, precludes pedagogy which in effect makes it a ‘free for all’. On several occasions the owner/mederator of this blog has deleted posts I believe.
As to your last sentence, “Educating trolls is like trying to teach a newborn Chinese…not gonna happen.” Why would you use this allegory? Why Chinese? An infant eventually develops and acquires the language into whatever ethnicity or country of origin he or she is born in. Is this a metaphor? Your first allegory was already clear enough and an excellent illustration of what it was you were trying to get across.
LikeLike
Herneith,
I agree with what you said, but we are talking about 2 different things. I spoke about people engaging with trolls to the point that they just repeat the same stock points over and over, knowing the person isn’t going to listen (and that listening/learning was never his intention). Like I said, I don’t understand the logic in that, but since your comments don’t follow that pattern I wouldn’t expect you to have an explanation for why people do.
The metaphor I used was to demonstrate the futility of talking to trolls. You can substitute “Chinese” with English, French, Spanish, whatever–I just like Chinese (the language). 🙂
I don’t know what you are talking about with infants…? Obviously everyone (barring some type of disability) eventually acquires language; my point was no one is her right mind would attempt to teach a newborn baby how to speak because it’s impossible, and thus a waste of time. How is “reasoning” with trolls any different?
LikeLike
Hey everyone,
I am a Canadian woman of Barbadian descent. I am new to this blog.
I agree with many points in this blog especially the annoying habit of lumping us all in one group as if we are all the same. We are as diverse any another group. I get so frustrated when people do not want to wake up from the media-manufactured propaganda matrix we are in. Come on….. Someone reads a few blogs or watches TV or rap videos and then determines from these images that they must be true about every person in that racial group…where is the logic? You cannot experience someone else’s culture (or life for that matter) without human interaction.
******************
Araeyel said “plus I already know I wouldn’t get along with at least 70-80% of black women due to my music preferences.”
How do you know this? What are you music preferences?
I love most types of music. I learn to love classical music due to playing the flute in school. I love old school hip-hop (80’s). Today’s, hip-hop is hipcrap. I love classic rock; I am learning to play the guitar to learn to play Stairway to Heaven by Lead Zeppelin and Dream on by Aerosmith. I love heavy metal, alternative rock, jazz, motown, calypso, and salsa.
In terms of movies, I love horror, action, comedies, and romantic flicks. I do not like sad movies because I am big crier.
I love to travel. I have travelled in Canada, USA, Caribbean, and Europe. I backpacked through Canada and USA on my own. What an experience.
I used to ski and skate. In school, I was on the track team, softball team, gymnastic team, and diving team. Also, I love to camp (except for the spiders – yuk).
********************
Overall, I am a unique, interesting person. When I tell guys my interests, they seem surprised that I like what I like but then seem uncomfortable because they do not know how relate to me because I am different from what they expected. This goes for bm and non-bm.
I like all types of men. If the whole package appeals to me, then I like it.
SO GUYS, if you like us, just say hi with a smile. That is all it takes.
Take care.
LikeLike
Hello Canadian,
Interesting post.
I also agree about the music preferences. My favorite band is Wheezer. And yesterday I was jamming to Blur, No Doubt, Corrine Bailey Rae, and Paula Cole. In high school I went through a whole angry-teenager phase where all I wanted to hear was Nirvana, Garbage, Marilyn Manson, and Nine Inch Nails.
I do have a special affinity for old school but the more modern stuff leaves me cold.
LikeLike
@Canadian and B&G…
please don’t fall for this nonsensical rubbish.
Here we have it again, a white man who has no clue and thinks black women are ghetto using under hand tactics to put us in a box.
This person, who has no idea has suddenly decided that black women must only listen to certain things which he has decided they listen to.
I mean how much more ignorant can one get?.
Is it beyond people like this to simply not judge or put people in a box.
This is another, underhand tactic used by people like this to demand that you prove your sophistication, and it’s ridiculous.
I love to display my love of hiphop to people like this, I once told a white friend with a poor vocabulary (seriously it was appalling) to listen to hip hop. She asked me why, and I said.. to improve your vocabulary.
It will teach you more metaphors than you can shake a fist at and your alliterations will be on point.
I will never dismiss hiphop, nor rap, nor soul or rnb nor jazz, neo soul, funk, grime, drum n bass, rock, high life for the sake of some ignorant person who uses his own lack of awareness as a divisive tool.
It’s a nonsense.
And yes, I happen to have season tickets to the National Opera house and attend recitals quite frequently, music is not a barrier it’s a an open floodgate.
The beauty of it is present in ALL of it’s forms. If you don’t understand it.. then leave it alone and stay in your narrow box.
LikeLike
Of course it’s a stereotype. They don’t think we get out much. These are the same people who are shocked to hear us speak with 5-cent words. It discombobulates them (10-cents!).
I actually met my husband at a big rock party he was DJing (he used to DJ part-time) held out in this huge barn. He has a whole room downstairs just filled with CDs and records.
I love to display my love of hiphop to people like this
I like German hip-hop (and French and British and there’s some amazing Italian and Spanish stuff) but the newest American hip-hop is often jaw-droppingly obscene and completely lacking in talent.
I prefer R&B anyway. Like Xavier Naidoo:
http://video.google.com/videosearch?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hs=Zff&resnum=0&q=xavier+naidoo&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=6CjTSuWiA5S1lAfZ0vyoCg&sa=X&oi=video_result_group&ct=title&resnum=10&ved=0CCoQqwQwCQ#
In his music he’s talking about things that really affect us and discussing true human emotions, not just blabbering about drugs, guns and hoes. I know that there is quality American hip-hop but it doesn’t get much play. And it all sort of sounds the same.
If you want a true word-Meister then you have to tap into the fount that is Herbert Groenemeyer. He can’t sing worth a damn but he’s so absolutely brilliant nobody cares.
I think it’s cool that they all sing in German, too. Many of my favorite bands are German (plug: Wir Sind Helden! and Totenhosen) and the text can usually run rings around the American cookie-cutter stuff.
LikeLike
Welcome Canadian!
Good posts above. I wonder, has anyone ever replied to someone who stereotypes all Black people as liking rap/hip hop with some snappy comeback about the biggest consumers of rap being White teenage males? What do you think they would say to that?
LikeLike
@Jasmin…
Nope. I never do that. I just say to them..
‘If your taste is the bad in hip hop it nmust be this bad across all genre’s’.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with hiphop or rap as a genre.
Just as there is nothing wrong with heavy metal as a genre.. I don’t see people condemning metal cos some aryant nation types use that form of music.
LikeLike
Answering trolls, etc:
I agree that trolls are a lost cause and so are most of the racists who comment here. But please keep in mind that for everyone who comments there are 10 to 100 people who lurk and read what we say.
For example, this post has received 781 comments. For this blog that is huge. But it is nothing compared to the number of visits this page has received: 54,498.
So while I agree that “these ‘discussions’ are akin to sitting and having a coffee with people and discussing issues”, they are in front of an audience.
LikeLike
So while I agree that “these ‘discussions’ are akin to sitting and having a coffee with people and discussing issues”, they are in front of an audience.
Yeah, it’s sort of a strange phenomenon.
I wonder, has anyone ever replied to someone who stereotypes all Black people as liking rap/hip hop with some snappy comeback about the biggest consumers of rap being White teenage males?
The only person I know personally IRL that listens to gangsta rap is my white, male, German cousin.
LikeLike
Good Anglo hip-hop:
More of this, please.
LikeLike
Lol, Soul, what do people say after that? I can’t imagine the conversation would go much further, but it still doesn’t get the point across that Black people *can* be interested in other types of music or that some Black people (gasp!) actually don’t like hip hop and/or rap at all.
LikeLike
i only like old skool rap
LikeLike
nowadays rap sucks
LikeLike
Old school is good. Back then they had a MESSAGE.
Have you seen Ben Fold’s rendition of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSJxvi767kQ ? Putting that mess to a different sound makes it glaringly obvious how absolutely revolting it is. Ben Folds is pure genius, BTW.
LikeLike
lol that is great
LikeLike
yea rap wasnt always so degrading its a shame people have ruined our artform
LikeLike
The Canadian said:
Azrazyel said “plus I already know I wouldn’t get along with at least 70-80% of black women due to my music preferences.”
“How do you know this? What are you music preferences? “
(Formerly Azrazyel to let you know.)
Well, I listen to Heavy Metal 97% of all music my mind consumes. I hate (c)rap/hip-hop with all my ears can muster. I’m not saying all blacks listen to rap, but I can say my preferences are strict so it’s only wise for me to be around someone who shares the same qualities.
Anything from Black Metal, Death Metal, Melodic Death Metal, Brutal Death Metal, Industrial/Cyber-Grind on and on and on. I do listen to Alternative, Rock and 80’s as well.
So yes, (70-80%) may be an understatement.
LikeLike
@jasmin…
They usually say.. ‘what do you mean’.
And I say, well when I listen to music, I’m listening for words, rhythm, a boherent beat, style, flow and finally something that fits the mood I am in. That’s why the charts have never had any particular effect on me.
I tell them when they say rap or hip hop is crap.. What are they listening to?. Do they know how to discern good music from bad?.
How can you love music and have no idea o f good rap and non-good rap.
Then I break down one of my fav raps or hiphop lyrics and they STFU.
Or I usually ask them to state why they like what they like.. and usually it’s some airy fairy pop rubbish chart stuff or some ridiculous airguitar incomprehensible metal stuff which only makes sense when they are high a a kite.
Listen, When Mos def writes lyrics like this, how can anyone tell me it’s crap:
I stretched my arms towards the sky like blades of tall grass
The sun beat between my shoulders like carnival drums
I sat still in hopes that it would help my wings grow
So then I could really be fly
And then she arrived
Like day break inside a railway tunnel
Like the new moon, like a diamond in the mines
Like high noon to a drunkard, sudden
She made my heart beat in a now-now time signature
Her skinny canvas for ultraviolet brushstrokes
She was the sun’s painting
She was a deep cognac color
Her eyes sparkled like lights along the new city
She lips pursed as if her breath was too sweet
And full for her mouth to hold
I said, “You are the beautiful, distress of mathematics.”
I said, “For you, I would peel open the clouds like new fruit
And give you lightning and thunder as a dowry
I would make the sky shed all of it’s stars like rain
And I would clasp the constellations across your waist
And I would make the heavens your cape
And they would be pleased to cover you
They would be pleased to cover you
May I please, cover you, please”
How can anyone look at the concept behind Lupe Fiasco’s albums and tell me they are crap.
No way, I love hiphop. No other genre of music uses metaphors like hiphop.
I’m currently reading some old classics.. streams of lyrical prose. That’s no different from hip hop.
Have some people bastardised it?.. heck yeah.. same thing with what happened to rock post the 80’s. The industry got a hold of it and rappers realised they could make songs to appeal to lil white kid fantasies. It’s like living an alpacino movie isn’t it?
But, I’m not letting them hijack or destroy or belittle a form of music which is still political, still powerful and damn it.. still raw like freshly cut onions (see that’s the hip hop speaking). lol
LikeLike
I posted that Mos Def song:
LikeLike
i just want to say i ama white male and i think Jasmin is very cute!
LikeLike
Lol, thanks Joe, though I hope you realize I am on the right, not the girl holding the camera (that’s my 15-year-old sister!). Time to change the Gravatar…don’t know if she wants to be up there, lol.
ERE, I love classical music! (Probably since I was a bando in high school lol.) I think my favorite genre overall the R&B/Neo-soul music. (I know those are 2 different genres but I can’t just pick one category!) I love Maxwell, Jill Scott, Alicia Keys, Vivian Green…
LikeLike
PS. What’s Iwa?
LikeLike
@Black&German
British & hip hop rarely ever go together. It just sucks.
Did you know that France ha the 2nd largest hip hop industry in the world and Germany the 3rd.
LikeLike
Golden age hip hop (from the time of Run DMC – When B.I.G. was killed. 1984-1997.)
Is the greatest genre of music ever.
I think you guys know my musical tastes : Golden age hip hop (from the time of Run DMC – When B.I.G. was killed. 1984-1997.), Drum & Bass, Metal (except death or prog), Rock (except prog and Britpop/indie), Punk, Funk, Soul (not RnB), Roots Reggae and Jazz (not the elevator musak kind.)
I can’t stand – Grime (it just plain sucks), all other genres of dance/electronica music and Indie/Britpop rock (so bloody talentless)
LikeLike
Vindicator:
What is the difference between soul music and R&B and what are examples of each?
LikeLike
Abagond, when are you going to enlighten us with a voodoo post?
Vindicator:
British & hip hop rarely ever go together. It just sucks.
Did you know that France ha the 2nd largest hip hop industry in the world and Germany the 3rd.
I’ve heard some good British stuff but I usually stick to Deutsches.
Germany has an enormous music industry.
LikeLike
There is no such thing as “neo-soul”. That term is a record exec-created catchphrase to catergorize modern R&B that has a strong ’70s influence and/or live instrumentation and/or a black boho aesthetic. A lot of the music that is thrown in the “neo-soul” pile tends to be very adult, in its groove and lyrics.
LikeLike
But isn’t the term “neo-soul” just so catchy? 😛
I thought neo-soul meant soul music from the late 90s-present.
LikeLike
Dark-skinned, 5 ft, size 4, not much booty, natural hair. Listen to mainly rock. I guess I’m the epitome of the black women in this blog entry…
LikeLike
What does this stuff mean from the writer?
“And yet they do prize whiteness in women
It is more in how she talks and acts. And in the general shape of her body – thin…
…not act too “ghetto”, but more like a middle-class white woman.”
How does one talk and act white? How is being thin and not acting “ghetto” attributed to being white?
Do you mean to tell me that if a black woman is thin and speaks with the education and good sense her parents gave her that that is called being white? Really?
Not simply called being an average or middle class black person.
Contrary to popular belief education, common sense, free and intelligent thinking, and slimness is NOT OWNED BY WHITE PEOPLE!
And… speaking with slang, being rowdy, using improper English or being ignorant DOES NOT BELONG TO BLACK PEOPLE.
All people have equal opportunity at both sides of the coin.
Hello people in 2008/9 the language of this article is ignorant we should know better by now.
LikeLike
Di,
You’re totally on point in your analysis. Applying negative generalizations SOLEY TO BW that could be used to describe ANYONE of ANY RACE, is ignorant and racist.
It is also wrong to act as if BW can’t possess positive traits that are usually associated with NON-BW but can apply to ANY WOMAN.
LikeLike
Why is that when a black woman or black person for that matter speaks proper english doesn’t role her neck and snap her fingers or do anything else stereotypical of blacks their automatically TRYING TO BE WHITE?
In other countries not america, black people don’t do these things I have black friends from England and the Caribbean who ask why is it that black women in America act so Ghetto see it’s not being white when you act intelligently it’s being an upstanding citizen of the world. Would you want black people in politics to say ”guuurrll” or any of those other things?
LikeLike
Well, Stephanie, I hate be redundant. It isn’t whites who buy into stereotypes, but many blacks, too.
I am a dark skin woman who was introduced to classical music when I was a child. When I go to the opera I sumetimes get curious stares. When I listen to chamber music I sometimes find myself swaying to the music. It will throw at least one person in the room for a loop.
I am who I am. I live a “love me or leave me” life. It is the quality most men say they are drawn to. It may be the reason many black men don’t know what to make of me.
Live your life, not someone else’s. You will be happier in the long run.
LikeLike
Luna Says:
Live your life, not someone else’s. You will be happier in the long run.
Luna,
I could not agree with you more.
LikeLike
drop it like its hot
LikeLike
Well I like what I have read as many others have. My experience is limited as I have dated some women of different races but not as many as others that have commented. here is what is noted personally.
When I was a toddler my mother was good friends with a Black woman that was married to a white man in Calgary Alberta Canada. This woman was the only woman that would or could babysit me as others I would ball my eyes out from separation anxiety. She had one girl that was as dark as her from a previous marriage and it was this girl that I would follow from room to room as she was also close to my age. I remember at 4 years of age kissing this 6 year old on the cheek and hearing her complain to her mother in the kitchen. Her mother laughed for a long time I was told and often called me her little Romeo. Perhaps that child grew up with a emotional scar from that, lol I am not sure.
In the mall my mother would take me for a stroll and I would turn out of my stroller to watch either a black woman or a red head white woman. My point is early in life we are not as prone to societies do’s and dont’s and what catches our eye is often revealed without any hiding.
I cannot summarize for each white man out there but I can provide my own view and whoever reads it can either agree, dissagree or receive insite as to what I am saying.
To all you women out there, depending on a mans stage of life and life experiences a man can be holding back on asking a woman out of any ethnic background because of fear of being turned down or insecurity, feeling of not having much to offer or taboo topic or just shy etc.. however just like applying for a new job either a person fills out the application or passes the opportunity is a decision made by the individual. So many factors!
Now getting back to the key topic: Personally I have always been attracted to a person’s eye first and because a black womans eyes are dark they offer a strong contrast which seems to hold my attention. Skin colour is something I also seem to hold close to my thumbs up top ten list.
I was told when this black woman that babysat me as a child I would sit on the couch with her as she watched her tv or read and I would spend hours tracing with my finger the line of dark skin and lighter skin on her hand. i would sit and do that for hours I was told. I was also told that because her natural hair was often breaking she wore a wig but as a child you do not understand that and when she washed her wig one day while I was there I was horrified. Looking back I laugh even writing this article. I still remember the large eyes black as coal showing concern and her saying it is ok as she picked me up and comforted me.
Am I predestined to be with a black woman I do not know but child experts say that our personality and likes and dislikes are 50% our core personality that we are born with and 50% how we are brought up. I agree with that for the most part. I also think who decides to break out of the shell and date who they want and who lets society decide who they can date or should date is based on the core personality. If you are extroverted then I can see you breaking out of the box more easily and not caring what other people think however an introverted person can still make a similar choice but it is often later on in life that they make the step.
Personally I find myself attracted to a mind, a smart woman and as I age I find that more attractive as I have dated the blond bimbo with a curvacious figure in the past and I never will go back to dating a woman with no intellect. Some of my friends say, “Wow, what a sexy woman”, but after one date and a follow up coffee at her apartment I broke it off out of pure frustration. I also found to my amazement that a woman as sweet as she may be if it is not coupled with intelligence it will be a boring and frustrating life in and out of the bedroom with little passion. She can have a body of a 10 but if there is no brain attached it is as useless as tits in a bowl to me, it showed me how much the mind is a major component and I am sure it is the same for you women looking for a mate. If there is no compatability mentally then the rest will promptly fall apart.
Aside from the mental level there is the physical, the smell of her skin, the colour of it, the texture and feel of her hair and skin close to mine, basically the senses that I judge my immediate world around me, taste, touch, smell, sound, and sight all affect how a man will respond to a woman and the level of attraction is how many of these topics have a check mark or an X beside it.
In my early years (18 to 25) what attracted me to a woman was first looks, then smell and her mind and attitude was considered last. Then after 25 I started to reshuffle them around a bit, what was said and how it was said became more of a key role in how attractive the person became to me. It also made me realize that what we are on the outside fades with time so looking at what is on the inside takes more of a precedent as that is what you are left with as time goes on.
People live mostly visual and it is one of the longest range senses that we have so of course how a woman looks is the first attraction level then what she says and what she says is now second on the list.
I think as a white male in today’s society I am attracted to a black woman or a woman of different ethnic background because I enjoy and am attracted to something different than myself. I would not be attracted to a female clone version of myself and I think that most people out there would agree with that unless they kiss their own reflection in the mirror every morning. Opposites attract but for me it is within reason.
For an example I was friends with a BW that was a wild child but I would never have gone out on a date with her because her lifestyle was not within my personality compatibility range. Whereas another one I admired for looks and personality I never asked out because I felt that she was so perfect that for sure I would have been turned down so I never asked her out, the fear factor of being turned down is sometimes strong. Later on in life I crossed pathes with her, she was happily married but confided that she wished she had asked me out as she felt I was fence sitting and neither one of us made a move. So in that case we both were at a loss or a life long regret! She coined a phrase from a song stating if you cannot be with the one you love then love the one you are with.
I think today there is just a curiosity as to what a black woman would be like to be with, then others would be looking at a black woman as a mate just because they are more appealing to them, ( a preference thing) others may be looking out of their own race because they have been burned within their own race so many times and want someone to love but not finding a suitable partner where they have been looking previously. Others are possibly mesmerized by the characteristics of certain black women features.
Myself the blacker the skin colour the more attracted I am. For me it is not the teenage boy wondering just how dark the woman’s nipples are or how round her ass may be, it is of the whole picture, how in areas of her neck the lines may be or how around her lips the distinct curves are. Her dark pupils against the white of her eyes, the palms and soles of her feet in contrast to the rest of the surrounding skin. The skin itself is very different to mine.
Perhaps I am a bit fanatical about a black woman and others may be looking at my words as a freaky man, perhaps I am but I think if you were to interview the few black women I dated you would hear that I was passionate about them and their life. The two reasons they were not long term is one died and one moved away, the third I was too scared to ask out and I will regret it for my remaining years.
My advice to any white men is date other flavours of women out there it will be an eye opening experience as you get to learn from someone else a different view on life, it will open your perspective and open your mind on alot of levels.
I still have fond memories of dining with one BW and enjoying her company and enjoying her eyes as she talked about her day or what trip she wanted to go on. It was not about physical attraction but the whole picture; it was not just a sexual curiosity but discovering and developing the whole passionate package.
I was biased at an early age ( 4 years old) I do not know why but I have always been attracted to a black woman, not cinnamon, not caramel, black that has always seemed to be what caught my eye.
And as an adult I just expand my appreciation and enjoy listening, the expressions, all the features in motion that I do not seem to take note of with a white woman. I do have alot of white and other ethnic background female friends that I am close with and enjoy their company just seems to be a soft spot for me with a black woman. the preference that rules heavy for me when choosing someone to date.
Life is what we make of it and destiny is partially our choices and sometimes not ours to choose but we should try to steer ourselves in the directon that we want rather than just leave ourselves to drift in the wind aimless and with seemingly no directive for that is truly a waste of a life and unfortunately at 38 I am just really seeing that now. Live life, respect others but steer your own ship do not drift or your regrets will be plenty.
LikeLike
Did anybody bother to read that last post? I just… can’t.
LikeLike
That one long manifesto…lol!
LikeLike
Paul K.,
Thanks for reminding WM/NON-BM who are attracted to BW (and may want to establish SERIOUS DATING or MARRIAGE relationships with them) that there is a PRICE to PAY for allowing COWARDICE or the ANTI-BW RACISM of OTHERS to keep them from being TRUE to themselves and who they REALLY love.
LikeLike
B&G leigh204,
He must have a LOT of free time.
LikeLike
i managed to read most of it. I’ll be alright though. 😀
LikeLike
Paul K: That did come off as a bit freaky, but it does make the point well that life is too short and precious to waste it on what others think.
LikeLike
Where are the curvy black cowgirls who are into Country music,dancing and rodeo?(CURVY,NOT FAT BROADS!!!!)
LikeLike
Paul, you’re obviously a writer. I can appreciate your honesty.
We all are a product of life experience. No matter how we got here, we’re here. I can’t say there was some pivotal moment when I first considered dating white men. I was taught to accept people for who they are. It really didn’t hurt growing up in a military family.
LikeLike
I’m a white man who dates black women. I grew up in public schools playing sports with the ‘brothers’ & those have always been my friends, so I started dating black girls as a teenager and never quit. Mostly they have been like the 1st group of pics in the article.
One thing that hasn’t been brought up that makes me hesitant about getting married & having kids is having ‘black’ kids. Not in terms of complexion, but in terms of society (& even the attitudes of many of the women I’ve dated). Like how Halle Berry/Alicia Keys, and most ‘mixed’ people are automatically ‘black’. I’m not black. That bothers me that my kids could somehow be ‘taken away’ from me, or be different/other/opposite of me. I know its not real, and its just society saying that, but that’s how it is. I’ve seen plenty of little light skinned mixed kids who hate white people & are super pro-black, even though one of their parents is white. And as anyone who pays attention to Tiger Woods knows, the majority of black people WILL NOT allow anyone who is part black to claim they are anything BUT black. As if the incredibly racist slave days ‘one drop rule’ is factual.
I realize if I’m raising them they won’t be like that (and instead respect both white culture & black, and also see themselves as an individual human being- not a ‘race’), but its still a concern.
Any thoughts?
Maybe I’ll move to Europe.
LikeLike
@ Luna- I grew up in a military family too. You might be onto something.
LikeLike
Im a white man, and I love black women. All types, all shades of skin. I dunno why. I grew up in Atlanta…which may be like 200% of it.
LikeLike
Chuck, I wouldn’t make too much of the whole “belonging” thing. The reality is those of us of African American heritage have at least one white ancester.
Although we struggle with colorism in the black community, we are undeniably uniquely American.
If you are comfortable with who you are your children will celebrate their complete heritage.
LikeLike
Chuck:
You should read this:
LikeLike
@chuck,
I have a nephew who is mixed, and remember one day he asked me if we would stop loving him because his mother is white. He also asked if we would not let him come around because of that fact. It hurt me to my heart to even hear him ask that question. But obviously it was on him mind becaused it was placed there. I told him no! we loved him regardless and it did not matter what HE decided to classify himself as, we as his family did see him that way….he turned out to be a well adjusted kid. That is because He chose…we did not make it for him…
LikeLike
My experience has been when kids are in personal contact with a diverse group of people they begin to notice race around 5.
I hada a good friend who relayed this to me. I met my friend when her son was about 3. We were very close. We were both stuggling financially. During that time I met and married my husband who is white.
One day he said to her, “You’re light I’m light and L*** [my husband] is white.”
“Yes,” she replied.
“And Luna is dark?”
“And you know what that means?” she asked.
His eyes widened. “What?”
“It means she’s dark,” she replied.
And that was the end of it. Adults make much too much about skin color. Kids see it for what it is.
LikeLike
Wow. I disagree completely. I prefer REALLY dark-skinned black women. I love the full lips. The one thing I would have to agree with your thesis on is I am picky about noses on black women. They dont have to have a Roman nose, but the really wide, flat nose does not attract me. However, of your list 15 of women that you thought most white men would not date seriously, I would be all over at least 8 of them! Heather Headley is on that list. Are you serious? She is gorgeous, and with a killer voice that in my opinion blows Whitney out of the water to boot!
LikeLike
hi. just wanted to tell of my experiences with white guys.
i am a 5 foot 11, 145 lbs darker skin black woman. i usually wear my hair straight, curly sometimes, i am thin but also very toned. i have more african american facial features, i have a broader nose and full lips.
i have been with a white man for 2 1/2 years now. im not really sure what it is but i tend to attract more white guys than black. all of my adult life i’ve only dated one black guy from the previous years.
when i talk to black men, now this is from my experience, they tend to question the way i talk, dress, the music i like, generally my whole lifestyle they dont seem to understand and it seems as if they get offended. im not sure, maybe its because they just cant relate to me in the way that they think they should.
now when i sit and talk to a white man, we tend to have more in common even though im from a lower middle class family. we tend to like the same music, i love all kinds, alternative rock mostly, contemporary, r&b, some country is fine. we just seem to click more and have more chemistry. i dont know.
also, when ever im out i get approached more by white men, be it a bar, the grocery store, mall wherever. im not too sure what it is?
i like white men because i feel we have more chemistry, we can converse about various subjects for longer periods than i can with a black man. im not college educated. although i am in the process of completing my college course work i have yet to receive a degree. though i usually dont mention that right away.
any way, this has gotten long lol, i tend to attract more white men than black.
LikeLike
I would say it is mainly your figure. Common interests affects it too, but that comes second.
LikeLike
Freek off his Leash:
Which eight?
All the women on this page are gorgeous. I divided the list into two based on the kind of black women I see white men with.
It is also partly based on comments made by whites about the women in question. For example, whites will readily agree that Gabrielle Union is beautiful, but I do not hear the same about, say, Phylicia Rashad (even though she is way better known among whites).
LikeLike
RE: Mayhue
“The meme that Black women are unlovable, disgusting and unattractive started from somewhere and it certainly didn’t start in the Black community (even when you factor in virulent colorism within the Black community)—the blame should be placed on those who created this system in the first place—white men.”
=====================
BW have endured the debasement by ALL groups, ESPECIALLY that by BM, even though BW and BM have, including today, the most frequent and highest interaction between each other.
What is the explanation for so many BW being denigrated by so many BM? Numerous published studies have shown that BW are at the bottom of the socio-economic ladder. Typically, each group (generally speaking) looks down on the group(s) below it. No matter who created it first, why are BM not respecting BW today, even though you blame the white man for creating this system?
The expression, “Two wrongs don’t make a right,” applies here.
BW have endured, persevered, supported themselves, and raised their children after being abandoned by the fathers. Now BW realize that they are strong, determined, and can make a future for themselves. BW can do for themselves what BM men should or could have done for the BW in the past.
As more and more BW realize this, they will have improved self-image, increased confidence, and get the true love that BW deserve.
LikeLike
^^^
Black men and black women aren’t respecting each other as much as they should. You can’t solely point the finger in one direction.
LikeLike
thanks for Theresa Randle
LikeLike
I would like to comment on one white mans preferance. I have extremely over powering weakness for black women. Not just the Gabrielle Union type even thought you would have to be a told fool not to think she is a knock out. I am atracted to all kinds of black women, as Iget older I find them more beautiful than white women. Maybe this has something to do with allthe traveling I have done and seeing women from all over the world. However in my top ten list of most beautiful women in the world they are all black, and there not all Beyonce and Gabrielle types. Serina Williams now there is an absolute hottie. How about Phylicia Rashad I think she was a exceptionally attractive Women.
This whole thing is quit upsetting. All women have beauty and if a man cannot see it he is not desevant.
LikeLike
To Eric
Thank you for your comment, it makes me feel good that there are people like you in this world.
LikeLike
One of the posters commented on how black men didn’t approach a girl from Africa until he saw that white men were interested.
That’s because black men think black women are their property even if they don’t want them.
I have been scorned by black men all of my life. I’m short, medium brown and have natural hair and full features. When my white husband was alive and we would go out, the black men would hit on me all of the time right in front of him or they would loud talk us. Ironically, I’m willing to bet those men would drink Halle Berry’s bath water, yet those same men can’t stand seeing an interracial couple like her parents. However, when I would go out alone, it was if I was invisible.
It seems to be that way with most races. Black women think they own black men, and hate to see them with women of other races. It’s the same with white women with white men and vise versa. When my husband and I used to eat out or go to the grocery store, we’d have to deal with these evil white women giving us dirty looks.
As for this article, I tend to see white men with very dark skinned women. It also seems that white men like natural hair more than black men do. My husband used to love shampooing mine. Unfortunately, most of the black men in my family look at you with such pity if you have natural hair especially if it’s short. It’s a wonder I have any self esteem at all.
LikeLike
M.S.,
I’m so sorry to hear that you and your husband had to endure disrespectful behavior from MOST BM when your husband was alive. NO BW should have to put up with this GARBAGE.
Hopefully, as ALL of us become more ENLIGHTENED in our treatment of IRR’S, this kind of behavior will eventually be eliminated.
LikeLike
LOL To all those who started to read my ” manifesto” It was meant as just a point of view as to various ways we all can get lost in society and allowed to become a part of the masses instead of an individual as we all really are.
if I offended any by my ramblings such as Black&German has mentioned then I do apologize.
And to Luna no I am not a writer just someone that wanted to express my thoughts so others would not miss out on what all I have miss out on. I have a weekness for dark skin that is something I have and it is just like any passion a driving force that fills my head and heart with emotion after all that is part of the human spirit whatever colour or ethnic descent we are. So I wrote, and wrote and wrote… lol much to the dismay of Black&german. Ok well gave him something to bitch about lol.
Well before I ramble on another book and get reprimanded a second time I had better conclude quickly!!
I think we all need to think as individuals in the rat race called life because the world is moving so fast we often do not take the required time to look at all the prospects out there and make the best decisions for us. If we did there would probably be less divorces in the world. I am reaching out as friends across cultures and colours and if I find something worth more time and energy I will put time into it. it has opened my eyes and ears to hear so many old people say their regrets, “shoulda coulda woulda but didn’t and regreted it”. OK leaving it there before I get shot lol.
good thing I live in Canada where not everyone has a gun or I would be shot for my long worded texts.
Hope the best for all bye
LikeLike
One more thing i like moca but love dark chocolate so all you coloured women out there smile when you look in the mirror knowing you are admired by men like me, read the posts there are a few of us out there and we admire for different reasons. take care all!
LikeLike
Just a headsup Paul K.
Black&German is a woman. 😉
LikeLike
Oh my…..
thandeka, what Eric is saying is not a compliment it is an insult and actually is a common phenomena amongst many white men.
When they are in their youth and thus in their prime they act like we don’t exist. But when they get older and incapable of making children, way past their youth, have exploited us and the men that we produce they now seem able to finally acknowledge what we all know.
That they have always wanted black women.
Don’t you get it?.
See if they got with a black woman in their youth and had kids they could not wilfully ignore the oppression that their own kids face, they could not be okay with the ‘okey dokey’ they would actively work at doing something about it.
But it doesn’t serve their purpose and so they wait.
They bide their time, profit from the exploitation and oppression of black people and then when they have no power, no will, no spirit they come with flattering words
Do not fall for this, it is evil personified. These old men have nothing to offer except stories and lies.
They leave us fighting for decades and them swooping in on some ‘let me rescue you BS’.
Eric, we don’t want the likes of you, you have no part to play in uplifting and countering the issues we face.
What are you useful for?,
You are not even invested in us, you are simple a polite version of those the vile racists who want black women just as much but will use violence to get us in their youth.
So you like Serena williams, so?. do you think that makes you unique? Is that supposed to be radical?
You spend your life fostering, celebrating and promoting ideas which re-inforce the idea that white beauty is the ideal beauty, you turn everyone against the notion of black beauty so that you can have your pick of us in your twilight years.
It is despicable and evil.
Black women don’t want the likes of you, you are a coward.
Anywhere, I find people like you trying to slime ball your way into black women’s hearts I will make sure they are aware of your hypocracy and evilness.
LikeLike
Soul,
To piggyback off what you’ve said a bit, I don’t take it as a compliment when WM say something along the lines of, “WW are ______, BW are better.” Anyone who is decidedly against an entire race of people is suspect in my opinion, and the fact that some BW are so desperate (that’s how it comes off to me) for the crumbs of any WM’s attention is really sad to me.
If BW are going to become part of the general standard of beauty, why would we want a bunch of “I only like BW” bs? That’s just further exoticizing us, and to me it’s no different than BM who say they “only date WW.” I’ve never dated a White guy who exclusively dates Black women, and I don’t think I’d want to. It wouldn’t make me feel “special” to have some guy talk sh*t about women of his same race–seems unhealthy. I think we need to criticize this mentality more often, because it’s turning the IR movement (if such a thing even exists) slogan from “BW, explore your options” to “BW, let’s get back at BM for dating WW.” Not a good look.
LikeLike
soul,
I completely agree with your excellent analysis of Eric and OLDER WM like him.
I, too, am DISGUSTED by OLDER WM who have spent their prime years treating BW as if they’re INVISIBLE, 2ND CLASS WOMEN/HUMAN BEINGS UNWORTHY of being pursued for SERIOUS DATING or MARRIAGE but, SUDDENLY, when they’re “OLDER” this type of WM expects BW to be impressed by his attention/give him the time of day. I say GET LOST. BW can do better than Eric and OLDER WM COWARDS like him.
LikeLike
There have been some harsh words toward older white men who chose not to foww their hearts when they were in their 20’s.
First, psychologically we do most of our emotion growth between the ages of 20 and 30. The person you are on your 20th birthday isn’t the person you are at 35 — thank God.
Second, I am of the generation of the men you call cowardly. When my husband and I discussed marriage in 1987, I was quick to ask, “Are you sure this is what you want to do?” Although the world had changed for black men with white women, nothing much had changed in the thinking of Americans when it came to black women with white men.
My husband and I were both active duty military. We knew the wife you chose affected your career. The white men who married black women during that time were braver than you will ever know.
I will never forget the look on my husband’s commander’s face when he introduced me. It was impossible for that old man to mask his shock and discomfort. I smiled politely. The colonial stared at me all night.
When we left the military I knew it was best to wait until my husband had a chance to guage to racial attitudes of his new employers. No amount of love or pride would pay the rent if he were to get fired.
What many of you don’t realized is careers have been end or damaged becauses of racism. This is an era ov more enlightened attitudes.
Please cut the old guys a little slack. Men don’t grow balls until after they are 30. By that time they have already made decisions that aren’t easily undone.
LikeLike
Luna,
Although I thoroughly understand what you’re saying, I still condemn certain OLDER American WM who SUDDENLY decide to pursue BW when they didn’t consider BW “good enough” for them in their youth.
It has ALWAYS been necessary for American WM in IRR’s with BW to exercise courage due to the EXTREME ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE that has ALWAYS been a part of American culture. Had it not been for the COURAGE of the Lovings (during a MORE RACIST era than the 80’s), IRR’s would NEVER have been legalized.
It’s because these OLDER American WM who might have been attracted to BW in their youth, were too COWARDLY to be TRUE to their REAL feelings and/or CHOSE to uphold ANTI-BW RACISM by treating BW like INVISIBLE, 2nd CLASS human beings/women, that they are deserving of DISGUST/CONDEMNATION when they decide to pursue BW now.
LikeLike
Luna,
Nope, I don’t cut anyone ay slack to toy with me and mine emotionally. If you want to do that, that’s fine and all well and good for you, but please don’t ask me to commend people for not having the balls to acknowledge their passion for a fellow human being when they are at their most rebellious and at their prime.
Please lets not change history just because you are married to a white man. because if you are trying to imply that BM/WW were more acceptable in the 70’s that BW/WM then I will simply have to call foul!.
Are you seriously trying to tell me that I do not realise that careers have been ended because of racism?. Seriously?
Do you think my career has not been impacted by it?. Do you think I have not had to leave jobs simply because of racism?
it is not a 70’s phenomena so please don’t go there.
I’m afraid I do not cut cowardly men any slack whatsoever, be they black or white.
the irony here is that a black man in the same era you speak of would have no choice but to deal with the racism, instead the man who claims to love you, cherish you beyond all else has a cop out because he want’s to let the world be, still benefit from the status quo, whilst letting other black people fight for the rights and well being of his wife.
This is exactly my point.
Older white men who go after black women are evil and pathetic.
They want no part of the fight for the black women they chase, they want to appear like angels who have picked this one lucky person who they will sweep away from their community, they have nothing invested in seeing black people progress. It’s all just at arms length for them.
I dare you to compare the attitude of a young White man who is married to Black woman (and has kids with her) with the attitudes of an old white man married to a black woman.
The young man is emotionally invested, he has to fight to make the world better for his children.
the old man doesn’t care.
I cut them ZERO slack and quite frankly, it is an insult and beyond ridiculous to ask me to.
LikeLike
I’m not saying ALL white men are honorable. I have met my share of slimeballs. It’s easy to spot them if you live in the real world.
I have been less than courageous in my choice of men. For some of us it comes to us sooner, rather than later, that we have to live with the decisions we make. There is a point when we realize we can be happy only when we live true to who we are.
You see, it isn’t only white men who struggle with family influences. Some black people are constrained by family loyalties, traditions, cultures and money.
It is truly liberating to live your own life.
LikeLike
Soul: Excellent comment.
Making excuses for the cowardice of white men is making excuses for racism.
LikeLike
@luna… and neither did I say ALL older white men, it would behoove you to note that when you comment on what I said.
And i live in the real world every single day, thank you very much.
The real world I inhabit is one MEN stand up for what they believe in.
You are derailing and bringing up stuff I didn’t even say or make a point out of in order to rebuke it.
No-one here said only white men do this, but you are making excuses for white men who do this. Yes, other men do it too, soo what? We are talking about black women that white men like and a familiar pattern arises out of this.
Older white men, who are passed their prime and have no fight left in them finally admit to what we all know and actively start pursuing black women.
These are men who did NOTHING/ZERO/ZILCH to stop people other white people from building the system which ensures that his future black wife will always be classed as a second class citizen.
In fact, he contributes to it, because he knows that down the line it will help him to be able to entice a black woman.
He invests NOTHING into helping people like his future wife, he removes himself from their suffering because erm… what is it again….
oh yeah, he’s scared of not being promoted, of rocking the boat, of being unable to feed his family.
in the meantime, other white men in their prime, marry black women and have children which makes them personally invested in the lives and the system which makes their childrens lives difficult.
That white man becomes a FATHER to a black child and no decent man stands idly by, whilst their child suffers.
That old white man who just discovered his gonads is pathetic and a usurper. A chancer and a lazy sod. A weak, pathetic, shrivelled up, selfish coward.
No. I will not cut him or the likes of him any slack.
He profitted quite comfortably and contributed (by supporting the system) to countless injustices, and now that we have struggled and come through it he suddenly realises ohhhhhh
black women are soo strong, oohhhhh black women are soo beautiful.
Get out of here with all that mess.
Look, I’m living my own life mighty fine.
I respect myself and other people who deserve respect. It will behoove you to take your own advice.
If you want to make excuse for weak, conceited, selfish and shallow old white men, who have nothing real to offer except material comfort and their overwhelming superiority complex… then go for it.
But please, don’t even begin to think that there are some of us out here who see right through that and will call a spade a spade.
i refuse to support or give any slack to white men who support, invest and benefit from racism.
it’s obvious they have your support, that’s all good.
they do not have mine.
That is all.
LikeLike
Jasmin Says:
Soul,
To piggyback off what you’ve said a bit, I don’t take it as a compliment when WM say something along the lines of, “WW are ______, BW are better.” Anyone who is decidedly against an entire race of people is suspect in my opinion, and the fact that some BW are so desperate (that’s how it comes off to me) for the crumbs of any WM’s attention is really sad to me.
If BW are going to become part of the general standard of beauty, why would we want a bunch of “I only like BW” bs? That’s just further exoticizing us, and to me it’s no different than BM who say they “only date WW.” I’ve never dated a White guy who exclusively dates Black women, and I don’t think I’d want to. It wouldn’t make me feel “special” to have some guy talk sh*t about women of his same race–seems unhealthy. I think we need to criticize this mentality more often, because it’s turning the IR movement (if such a thing even exists) slogan from “BW, explore your options” to “BW, let’s get back at BM for dating WW.” Not a good look.
Preach on sister, preach on!
LikeLike
I agree it is not a compliment for a white man to compare black women to white women favorably or unfavorably. It is a huge red flag his motives are insincere.
I feel it’s easy for all concerned to get into the politics of race and ignore the central point of individual relationships and respect of the parties involved.
As women we know when we’re being disrespected. People only treat us as we allow then to treat us. That is the bottonline.
LikeLike
Okay… Sade is half black and half white, if we can call her black we can call her white too. And the same goes for Halle berry, so those two shouldnt be on here.
LikeLike
In America, where the One Drop Rule still holds, both Sade and Halle Berry are black all the way. That their mothers were white making them half-white by blood is like a footnote, an Interesting Fact, not something that determines their race.
LikeLike
Isn’t it bizarre that no matter what white people still try to define you. Just like during slavery.
These individuals define as Black, they live and have lived a black experience.
Fola shade Adu wasn’t even born in any European country she was born in Nigeria. She defines as black because she lived a black experience and is visibly ‘other’ to white people.
If Sade Adu or Halle Berry were not supported in their endeavours by the black community, they would not be where they are now.
If Sade Adu and Halle Berry lived in Brooklyn struggling to make ends meet no-one would be clamouring to demand that we ignore how they self identify and proclaim as white.
If they were on drugs, sitting in a jail cell for fraud, no-one would be clamouring/demanding that how they identify be ignored and that they really are white.
oh no!.
LikeLike
black men are almost just like white men.
They will sex and date black women but wont marry or take care of them.
Black women especially should not let a man have sex with her til he has married her.
its 2009 black women deserve better.
LikeLike
@MzMee…
you wanna speak for the ones in ur area . where I’m from they marry you right uick. By the time you are in ni, u have a fiance.
LikeLike
In regards to comment #858: Preach, Soul, preach! LOL.
MzMee,
You seem to have a lot of bitterness towards black men. Perhaps you had an especially bad experience with one. I emphasize with you, if you have, but don’t be so quick to throw the baby out with the bathwater. If a disgruntled black man came on here angrily dimissing and disparging black women, I would rightfully blast him. The same holds true when the opposite occurs. Too wrongs don’t make a wrong.
LikeLike
“In America, where the One Drop Rule still holds, both Sade and Halle Berry are black all the way. That their mothers were white making them half-white by blood is like a footnote, an Interesting Fact, not something that determines their race.”
Okay, their fathers are black making them only half-black by blood is also like a footnote, and it does determine their race because they are BI-RACIAL. Stop trying to make them one thing, no matter how many times you say it, they are just as white as they are black.
LikeLike
“These individuals define as Black, they live and have lived a black experience.
Fola shade Adu wasn’t even born in any European country she was born in Nigeria. She defines as black because she lived a black experience and is visibly ‘other’ to white people.”
No. The world defined them as black, how can someone be raised by their white mother and then just disregard them and the color
of their skin and choose one race over the other?
What do you mean by black experience?
Helen Folasade Adu was born in Nigeria, but what does that have to do with anything? What about the millions of whites born in Africa? And millions of blacks born in Europe?
She is Bi-racial.
LikeLike
If Sade Adu or Halle Berry were not supported in their endeavours by the black community, they would not be where they are now.
So, what does that have to do with anything? Bill Clinton was very much supported by the black community, does that make him black?
LikeLike
Some people have commented on how it’s wrong for white men, or anyone for that matter, to prefer black to their own race. I beg to differ.
I find it interesting that people accept most other personal preferences. For example, if a white man only dates brunettes or redheads, or a tall man likes short women, or a black woman prefers black men from the islands, most people would have no problem with that, but the minute someone prefers a different SKIN color, people flip out.
The truth is when it comes to who someone chooses to love, people need to mind their own damn business. Would you non-swirlies want people sticking their noses into your private lives telling you who to love?
I think not.
Secondly, some people think biracial people are black, period, while some others think they are simply biracial. Same old debate.
For my two cents worth, since life began in Africa, we ALL have African genes and we all are biracial. The “one drop rule” was devised to keep future generations enslaved. No matter how light the baby came out when Massa had his way, that child and that child’s decendents could be slaves. Genetically, African genes aren’t any stronger than anyone elses. The way people are racially classified in the U.S. is ridiculous. A blond, blue eyed biracial person who looks white is called black while a Pacific Islander who has coily hair and looks black is not black.
The reason whites are so against black people marrying into their families is that black is the only race you can’t breed out by mixing with white. They are also afraid of race mixing because blacks have the power to breed them out by mixing with them, thus taking over America.
On the other hand, I believe in living in reality, and the reality is that no matter if you are a biracial person who looks white, the minute someone finds out that you have African ancestry, they will see you as black no matter how you define yourself. That’s why even today whites live in fear of what a DNA test will show, because it can change their social standing in a split second. There are valid arguments for both points of view on this volatile subject, but the bottom line is that the government will never change the way people are classified. Too hot too handle.
LikeLike
Now, it dawns on me.
The reason why people are so obsessed with black/white offpsring and seems so disinterested in white/non-black or non-black/non-white interracial offpsring (who happen most frequently) is because of the polarizing ideals of “black” and “white”.
These people arguing about Sade’s “race” has less to do about her true “racial ethnicity” (if that’s the case, these individuals would be arguing why nearly all black Americans are called “black” instead of “mixed race”) but her social standing and their perceptions of blackness and whiteness. It goes to show you that to the world, there is no less powerful color but BLACK.
LikeLike
M.S.,
I don’t know if most people are against preference (but neither you nor I know most people), but I think many are against those who conflate preference with absolutes. People who speak in absolutes are suspicious to me, because they seem too…defensive? I’m not sure if that’s the word I’m thinking of, but when one talks about “only liking this” and “only liking that” I tend to think that’s just another type of fetish. Which is why I don’t think White men who claim to only date Black women are flattering or special–mostly just creepy and too eager.
LikeLike
“So, what does that have to do with anything? Bill Clinton was very much supported by the black community, does that make him black?”
Most importantly, Sade identifies as black. In interviews, she refers to herself as a “black woman”.
LikeLike
Jasmin- I would be upset if someone said they only date white women because they have more dignity and grace, or they only date black men because they are better in bed, or they only date Asian women because they’re more docile. That is stereotyping- I guess akin to the fetishism you talk about- and when you do that you take away someone’s humanity. I beleive that’s different than preferences. Most people have clear likes and dislikes and therefore are attracted sexually and emotionally to certain people.
Some people are attracted to any race, some to one particular race, some only to their own race. It’s funny that people don’t get angry when people only date within their race. In a way that could be called racist by an intolerant person, couldn’t it?
I’m sure there are types of men you would never even consider dating because they are not physically your type.
For example, I’m not attracted to overweight men or hairy men. Even though I’m short, I would rather date a man who’s at least 5’8″. (Still short to some people, tall to me!) Big, muscular men really turn me off as well.
I’m just saying that it’s a personal thing and other people shouldn’t interfere. Guess we’ll have to agree to disagree.
LikeLike
M.S. says,
Some people are attracted to any race, some to one particular race, some only to their own race. It’s funny that people don’t get angry when people only date within their race. In a way that could be called racist by an intolerant person, couldn’t it?
laromana says,
M.S.,
I strongly agree with your above comment and believe no one should be judged for who they do/don’t have a physical attraction (personal preferences).
I do appreciate the distinction you make between dating someone on the basis of stereotyping vs. preferences.
I agree with you that if someone only dates persons from certain races based SOLELY on racist stereotypes, (instead of the person’s individual traits/character) they are practicing fetishism and disrespecting that person’s humanity.
I also think it’s wrong if someone has a preference for dating people from a certain race and feels the need to put down those outside of the racial group they prefer.
LikeLike
“I also think it’s wrong if someone has a preference for dating people from a certain race and feels the need to put down those outside of the racial group they prefer.”
@ laromana
Yes this particular point seems to be at the top of the list when people are claiming a so called preference. Too many just cannot state their preference without feeling the need to throw the other race under the bus and tearing down their worth. 🙂
LikeLike
I cosign with Laromana and AO.
La Reyna
LikeLike
MS,
I don’t actually think we disagree, because I think the separation of the races is so slight (neither all White people nor all Black people look the same, some Blacks can pass for White, etc.), that a preference like the ones you mention seems like it would have to come down to a more specific feature than race, i.e., blonde hair, green eyes, etc. (notice that your preferences are based on specific features). Saying one only dates White people doesn’t really make sense as a preference because there are dark-haired White people, light-haired White people, tanned White people, pale White people, and so on and so forth, so what part exactly do you prefer?
I guess the distinction I make is that if one “prefers” blonde hair, you will date mostly White people by default, and there’s nothing wrong with that. But if you prefer White people in general, that specifies nothing physical, so it’s likely it comes out of a racial stereotype.
LikeLike
Lordy.
I don’t stereotype white men. I don’t prefer them because I think they’re all better in bed or that they all will treat me better than a black man would or that most of them are faithful or know proper etiquette or any other generalization anyone could come up with.
I’m intellegent enough to know that there are some white men who use black women for sex, there are some who talk “street” with black women and use proper English with their white families and friends, there are some who would claim to love me yet are predjudiced against other blacks and so on and so forth.
I like white men with large sweet eyes, strong noses and beautiful smiles the way I like strawberry ice cream, British television,and singing in the shower. It’s just me. I’ve been this way since I was a small child.
I have a cousin who was married to a man who is now with a woman. I don’t understand her need for a vagina because I’ve never felt that way, however I respect the way she feels and I would never be so arrogant as to tell her why she feels the way she does or to stereotype her. Live and let live. I’ve made it to forty by minding my own business.
LikeLike
For the record, due to slavery the majority of blacks are mixed with white in the USA. I find it interesting that we are consistently pointing out that Halle is mixed when most blacks are mixed.
Also, the one drop rule was not implemented by blacks but by whites. So, we blacks learn to identify as black and now it’s a problem because we are denying our white side. Make up your minds.
For the older white men, you are too late. I am only interested in someone I can have a family with. You should have shown your interest when you were truly interested. Life is too short for major regrets.
LikeLike
As a middle aged white male, I think the author’s premise is generally correct. I find AA women to be attractive and it’s not a function of skin tone or color, but more the shape of facial features and overall figure. To the first set (all of whom I find attractive), I would add Traci Bingham, Janet Jackson, N’Bushe Wright, Shari Headley, Sheila Johnson (was also in Coming to America), Nicole Narain, Renee and Rosie Tennison, Beverly Johnson, Vanity, and Essence Atkins to the list.
From the second list, the author is correct in that not as many of them are appealing. Of the second group, Jill Marie Jones, Sade, and Latavia Roberson would qualify.
LikeLike
Jewell says,
For the older white men, you are too late. I am only interested in someone I can have a family with. You should have shown your interest when you were truly interested. Life is too short for major regrets.
laromana says,
I couldn’t agree with you more.
LikeLike
mynameismyname said:
Now, it dawns on me.
The reason why people are so obsessed with black/white offpsring and seems so disinterested in white/non-black or non-black/non-white interracial offpsring (who happen most frequently) is because of the polarizing ideals of “black” and “white”.
These people arguing about Sade’s “race” has less to do about her true “racial ethnicity” (if that’s the case, these individuals would be arguing why nearly all black Americans are called “black” instead of “mixed race”) but her social standing and their perceptions of blackness and whiteness. It goes to show you that to the world, there is no less powerful color but BLACK.
Awww yes! Someone gets it! Racial identity is very confusing. People are very much obsessed with black/white offsprings than non-black/white offsprings. The funny thing is people do not hassle them as much. I don’t see the argument of Christina Aguilera picking sides from Whites like they do with Black/white offsprings. She is Irish and Ecuadorian. I don’t hear people tell her she is not White. They treat her as a White blue-eyed Blonde hair woman. Same with Cameron Diaz. Why? Because they look White. They benefit from White privledge. Now Wentworth Miller is whole another story. He benefits from White priveledge because he looks more White than Black. I think he mentioned awhile back of how some White people were willing to say the n-word so loosly around him because they thought he was White, but when he mentioned he had a Black father everything changed. I remember when he told the public his father is Black people made a huge gasp lol. What’s even annoying is how some people can’t accept his father being Black so they nit pick at his ethnic background to explain why he is not fully Black. The truth is his father is an African-American of mixed race heritage like most African-Americans. However since Wentworth looks mostly White, people couldn’t accept it. Race is based off of physical appearance alone not ethnicity, cultural, nor nationality.
LikeLike
K said:
If Sade Adu or Halle Berry were not supported in their endeavours by the black community, they would not be where they are now.
So, what does that have to do with anything? Bill Clinton was very much supported by the black community, does that make him black?
Bill Clinton does not self-identify with being Black like Halle Berry and Sade. He physically looks like a White man and benefits from White privledge unlike Halle Berry and Sade. You are derailing the conversation because of your anger towards people who claim people of being “Black” instead of bi-racial, without having knowledge to back up how are government socially constructed race as an identity to maintain White privledge.
LikeLike
Amen, Dani!
You said it better than I probably could.
I’m glad I’m not the only who has picked up on how America makes such a big thing out of Tiger Woods’ racial identity but could care less about Keanu or Jon from “Jon & Kate” fame’s mixed race backgrounds.
Christina and Cameron’s Latin backgrounds (most likely mixed-race; I once heard a rumour that Diaz’ Cuban grandmother was visibly of African descent) are rarely scrutinized let alone mentioned. Who’s arguing their whiteness? Mostly, because of like Dani pointed out, their physical appearance as well as the fact that they are not perceived as black.
Is all of this debate over “mixed race” really about multi-racialism or is about BLACK?
LikeLike
mynsmeismyname said:
Amen, Dani!
You said it better than I probably could.
I’m glad I’m not the only who has picked up on how America makes such a big thing out of Tiger Woods’ racial identity but could care less about Keanu or Jon from “Jon & Kate” fame’s mixed race backgrounds.
Christina and Cameron’s Latin backgrounds (most likely mixed-race; I once heard a rumour that Diaz’ Cuban grandmother was visibly of African descent) are rarely scrutinized let alone mentioned. Who’s arguing their whiteness? Mostly, because of like Dani pointed out, their physical appearance as well as the fact that they are not perceived as black.
Is all of this debate over “mixed race” really about multi-racialism or is about BLACK?,
LMAO!! It’s just Black/White offspring or or non-Black offspring. The condescneding attitudes on Black people accepting “Bi-racial” Blacks are tired. It really is based on what people perceive what a Black person or White person looks like. People will go by that and you either gain from the white privlege or not lol. Most Black Americans are mixed race and still call themselves Black. So why aren’t people shoving down our throats to accept their mixed race heritage? Oh I see because we look mostly Black lol
LikeLike
All of this goes way back to a mans pride in general. White women date a black men more because they arent afraid. White men have there egos at stake, and afraid they would be critisized denied by their own people for dating and liking a black women, so they remain in their comfort zone. Others simply dont like black women because the ones they have come on contact with are ghetto, loud bitches. They simply havent found one they can acually like. black woman are extremely strong and some cant handle it. by then, they are bruised and by forever scorned by the image of a black woman. most black woman in the media are loud and scary, MOSTY THE DARK ONES!!then sometimes its just not there preference and they cant be blamed for what they dont like. some have been brought up that way. some dont give a damn and would date her because he loves her justt for whos she is and doesnt care what everyone thinks about him and his woman. i may be wrong, but at sixteen years old, this is what ive observed. i love all colors. i look like im 18 yrs old five foot seven and milk chocolate color and weigh 135lbs, but im very athletic so most of the weight is muscles. i have soft features and have my hair naturally nappy, but its long and beautiul. all types of guys find me attractive. But When it comes down to it all NO GUY LIKES A LOUD GHETTO BLACK CHICK WHO HAS NO HOME TRAINIING. THOSE CHICKS FUCK UP ANY CHANCE BLACK GIRLS HAVE WITH OTHER WHITE MAN. THEY ARE AFRAID OF US!, IT GETS OLD AND MANY BLACK MEN ARE EVEN SICK IF THE LOOK AND ATTITUDE. IM A SMART ADN INTELLECUAL GIRL AND IT HELPS THAT IM PRETTY. IF BLACK SHICKS STOP WITH THE LOUD AND GHETTONESSM,MAYBE WE CAN ALL HAVE CHANCES AT RACIAL DATING UNITY!THIS IS MY OPINION SO DONT FEEL UPSET. IN SKOOL, THIS IS WHAT MY PEERS TELL ME.
LikeLike
What in God’s name was that above post about? :-O
LikeLike
AO said:
What in God’s name was that above post about? :-O
LMAO! I’m saying that was some gibber jabber
LikeLike
I really dislike that “hey black women, stop getting stereotyped so I can gets me a White man already” crap.
LikeLike
strangefruit you may want to set black men straight on this as it is THEM most of the time that blame black women for them dating out; which is nothing than fallicious bullshit at best. Here in Cali; black men bash black women on a daily basis and now black women are now doing the same. No, im not some fat, loud, ghetto, weave wearing bitter black woman; just observing both sids of this sad issue. I don’t give any creadence to negative opinions of black women from anyone regardless of color. While attitude is a major component to the success of any relationship; there alot of black men that also have shitty dispositions that are in definate need of adjustment as well. Lets not make having a bad attitude a black woman thing as thus attitudes comes in all colors.
LikeLike
I want to marry a black woman
LikeLike
I am a white man wants to marry a black female 865-963-2843 call me and we can talk!
LikeLike
brownie,
Thanks for your excellent comment.
EVERYONE needs to be reminded that the ANTI-BW LIES, MYTHS, AND STEREOTYPES that have historically been promoted by American media/culture, (and now, sadly, by MANY DBR, SELF HATING, ANTI-BW BM) DO NOT REPRESENT REAL BW.
ANY QUALITY man of ANY RACE who wants a SERIOUS DATING and/or MARRIAGE relationship with a BW can do so by treating us as INDIVIDUAL HUMAN BEINGS who DESERVE to have our HUMANITY, DIGNITY, and FEMININITY RESPECTED.
LikeLike
don’t all rush to jot down that number ladies 😀
LikeLike
This article is sooo WRONG!! it says we, white guys, like a whiter, or less black black women, which is false!! you say we dont want that big of a bottom, thats false. i think black women with big curves[and butt], big lips, dark dark skin are sexy as hell. this article portrays white men as racist. i wish generalization like this didnt exist, as it would make connecting with different type of people easier, without all these false assumptions in the way.
LikeLike
also, i find it hard to ask out a black women due to the fact[and ive heard this from black friends, both m and f] that some black women feel inferior and stand-offish around white men, due to the fact that the media has told them that white men prefer anorexic, blond, curvless, light skinned women. i think these thoughts need to end in order to bring people closer together.
LikeLike
whiteguy,
You’re correct in noting that ending ANTI-BW STEREOTYPES about what type of BW WM are attracted to would help encourage more BW/WM relationships but, in my life experience, it’s WM who(either due to ANTI-BW COWARDICE or a willingness to GO ALONG with ANTI-BW RACISM for fear of what OTHERS might think/say)DON’T take the INITIATIVE to SHOW their attraction to ALL TYPES of BW.
LikeLike
how can one feel inferior yet be standoffish at the same time.
BS
LikeLike
white guy,
Although many younger Whites are anti-racist, the White controlled media CONTINUES to PROMOTE ANTI-BW LIES, MYTHS, and STEREOTYPES that DISCOURAGE men from ALL RACES from viewing BW in a positive way/pursuing relationships with them (definitely NOT BW’s fault).
That’s why MORE WM/NON-BM need to OPENLY CHALLENGE White controlled media and let them know you want them to STOP PROMOTING ANTI-BW LIES, MYTHS, and STEREOTYPES.
As BW see WM/NON-BM defending their HUMANITY, DIGNITY, and FEMININITY from ANTI-BW RACISM they will KNOW that WM/NON-BM TRULY like, care about, and RESPECT them.
LikeLike
white guy said:
” I was merely stating that there is some information in this article that is missleading and based on stereotypes themselves. “
1. What information in this article is misleading?
2. Which stereotypes am I basing it on?
LikeLike
I’d like to invite you and your readers to participate in an internet radio discussion which will take place tonight (11/21) on the topic of “Black Women Dating/Marrying White Men”. I’d love to hear some comments from people actually involved in these types of relationships, or your thoughts on them. If you get a chance, stop on by. The call-in number is 347-327-9215
LikeLike
Oh, please. White men are nothing to feel inferior to. That’s one of the reasons Black women are “stand-offish”. We can see that superiority complex a mile away.
LikeLike
also, i find it hard to ask out a black women due to the fact[and ive heard this from black friends, both m and f] that some black women feel inferior and stand-offish around white men, due to the fact that the media has told them that white men prefer anorexic, blond, curvless, light skinned women. i think these thoughts need to end in order to bring people closer together.
Yes, and these ‘black friends’ know all 40 million or so other blacks so are therefore able to pontificate on why black women are ‘standoffish’? Maybe these particular ‘black friends’ feel this way. However most black women don’t. If a man approaches you, expressing an interest in you, you can do the following; If the feeling is mutual, take him up on his interest and go from there.;If the feeling is not then don’t(How one does this is dependant on one’s personality being polite or disdainful). It is all dependant on that black women’s personality. There are men I know that have this philosophy; If they ask ten women out for a date, at least two or three will take them up on their offer. No there are other issues at work as to why white men find it ‘hard’ to ask a black women out, and it is not based upon what your ‘black’ friends tell you, it’s more complex. I particularly took offense as your ‘friends characterizing black women as feeling ‘inferior’ when being approached by white men. Maybe the ones approached are just not attracted to white men for whatever reason, and are too polite to state so. The only one appearing to stereotype here is you and your ‘black friends’ if indeed they told you that nonsense.
LikeLike
“also, i find it hard to ask out a black women due to the fact[and ive heard this from black friends, both m and f] that some black women feel inferior and stand-offish around white men, due to the fact that the media has told them that white men prefer anorexic, blond, curvless, light skinned women. i think these thoughts need to end in order to bring people closer together.”
Yes these thoughts need to end and they begin with you – or anyone who has them. Instead of seeing black women as “black” women, try seeing them as just, you know, women. By that I do not mean act as if they are not black at all, as if they are brown-coloured white women, but understand that any black woman is an individual first, a woman second and black third. Think of them as snowflakes – no two are alike or will ever be repeated again.
LikeLike
abagond/Herneith,
Thanks for clarifying the fact that ANY man of ANY race who approaches BW for a relationship needs to see them as INDIVIDUAL, HUMAN, WOMEN FIRST instead of STEREOTYPING them based SOLELY on ANTI-BW RACIST LIES.
LikeLike
@white guy
I kinda agree with what you just wrote! Not all of it but some of it. Ftr (for the record, I hope this catches on!)
I as a black guy has had mostly positive experiences with white people! I don’t know about every other POC’s experiences!
LikeLike
white guy:
Racism in the particular form that you find it in America was most certainly created by whites. They are the only ones who had the motive and opportunity to do it.
American society was created by the English who came to North America. You see that in its language (why I am writing this in English), its laws, its political and religious ideas – and in its racism.
They set the whole thing up. They love to take credit for it – but if they want to be honest, they have to take credit for its dark side too: the chains and the whips, the land they robbed, the ghettos they created, all of it.
White people are not gods. They are not perfect. The ones who founded America got some things right, righter than most (the constitution), but they also got some things wrong, wronger than most (slavery, genocide, racism).
To not see that is lying to yourself.
LikeLike
white guy:
Most white people do not sit and plot against black people. It seems like most of them barely even think about black people. Yet they do share a common culture that teaches them to look at blacks and other people of colour a certain way. Racism does not come from a plot, it is not that explicit. It comes from common cultural programming.
LikeLike
Can’t deny decades of mixing between black women and white men, seems it was kinda accepted when it was clandestine, now that society has made it ‘legal’ for these two groups to mix is it suddenly an issue for both parties. So sad. I like and date any man that respects and treats me well:)
LikeLike
here is a story i remeber. [this has nothing to do with the above ocmments , fyi]
in high school , i dated a black girl for a while. When we first started talking, i remeber her asking me” would you ever consider dating a black girl…? i looked at her, confuzed and a bit shocked that she would think her race would be a deciding factor in me dating her or not. I told her ” why wouldnt I..? She said ” well, i dont know. i just didnt know if you would ever like a black girl like me…” i didnt know what to make of this. it still bogels my mind to tihnk that in this day and age, a 16 yr old girl would not be sure if a 16 yr old boy would consider dating her based on her or my race. …its sad. anyone have any thoughts, or stories of thier own?
LikeLike
Im sorry, but the term you must be looking for is white men (the majority) want a black women who is not crazy and whom carries herself like she is educated and has class.Its not acting white, you dont have to be white to be proper. Ever heard of the term “white trash”. The ideal race is not white , just holding yourself to hight standards is. I am a young african american women and i have only dated black men whom most have been ghetto. But i always get into arguments when they comment on how i speak like a white girl, they say they like it because i dont act like every other women they’ve dated but honestly it still angers me that when a black women acts like she has sense we are compared to caucasion women. One day im going to just blow up and i wonder how many are going to look at me and just think “just like a nigga”
LikeLike
white guy,
It is sad that BW have to wonder if WM/NON-BM will REJECT them based on their race but I can tell you from first hand experience that this is EXACTLY what happens.
LikeLike
Hmmm… I guess white guys don’t really like women with curves. I really don’t know about black guys, but majority of white guys hate when a woman has a huge butt (at least the white guys I know- and I do not know any other guys but the white ones). So it makes sense, I guess, that most of them who like black women, still want them to be really thin.
I showed these photos to my husband, by the way, and he said Omotola was the most attractive. But he isn’t into skinny women.
LikeLike
well im a lighter toned black woman and I do find white guys attractive. i like the athletic build, i dont like a guy thats too pale but they dont have to be tanning bed dark neither. i find sumthing exotic about the idea of being with someone of another race but at the same time it seems irrelvant because wen u fall in love wit someone it boils down to their personality.
LikeLike
I agree: white men like to say that black women are too ugly or too “ghetto”, but deep down the main reason is they do not want black children:
LikeLike
I said:
“white men like to say that black women are too ugly or too “ghetto”, but deep down the main reason is they do not want black children:”
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2008/06/25/why-so-few-white-men-marry-black-women/
white guy said:
“just remember that not ALL white people are like that ok?”
Since the link was to “Why so few white men marry black women”, I already know that. It just becomes tiresome to put a quantifier (all, most, some, none, 37.3%) before each use of the word “whites”. Please excuse my quantifier fatigue.
But please also keep in mind that your “not all” is very small: only one married white American man in 400 is married to a black woman, even though one woman in 8 is black.
LikeLike
abagond says”only one married white American man in 400 is married to a black woman, even though one woman in 8 is black.”
well, maybe one day, some of todays young people will change that. i guess well see. id glady marry anyone i fall in love with, whether theyre irish or nubian.
“It just becomes tiresome to put a quantifier ”
its your job to display your opinion accurately. if i posted a comment that said “ALL balck people this, ALL black people that” you and some other readers would problly get upset, seeing as no one has the right to say these things. so, you might be sick of saying amounts, but dont be hypocritical. that said, i do enjoy your blog, its an eye into someones point of view, i love anthropology, so its very interesting hear opinion on social issues from all people.
LikeLike
Wrong: when you do not put a quantifier before a noun, “ALL” is not assumed. If I said, “Republicans hate Obama”, that does not mean they ALL hate him. But if I say “white men do not marry black women because they do not want black children” SOME whites will hear that as “ALL white men…” Against the rules of English. They want special rules for the noun that refers to them.
LikeLike
the black woman: will a) be shy, respectful and quiet, especially if the white guy in question is not that confident themselves.
b) have mostly white friends and associate with a minority of black people. black women with a lot of black friends and who hang around in black circles do not tend to date white men, unless that white man has a lot of black friends themselves.
in my opinion most white men are prejudice to the idea of dating a black woman whether they want to admit it or not. the ones that want more than sex from a black woman are far & far between.
LikeLike
i am mixed race and also seen as black. whilst no black men i’ve met have been perfect they have mostly tried to get to know me as a person, not just for sex. can’t say the same for white guys who i meet who mostly just want one thing.
LikeLike
I believe white men would date only black women if one she is mixed with an other race two if she is dark skin but have exotic features or I should say white features three if she acts like a white woman. why, I believe in this because I am a black woman and I’ve dated white men and non of them ever said I was smart nor beautiful it’s really sad because that is exactly how black men would want too. The light skin girl with white features and blues eyes or hazel. I really do hate the fact that these men would look down on the darker skin woman with broad nose, big lips, and very black skin. for the white men that like black women for all the wrong reasons I suggests you stop dating them all together becuase u fuckers are no different from a black men. There is no hope for darker skin women like myself we are cosidered to be in the buttom. we are less in the eyes of society I mean this shit has been going on since slavery. please and please again for the white men just date your own race o.k.
LikeLike
white guys will never take a black woman serious, ever. why? intelligence, white men don’t beleive a black woman can actually have an education or being intellectual and if they do fine one they would be exemely surprise. what do white men that we are monkeys.
LikeLike
Tia:
I just deleted one of your comments. Another was moderated. I have a comment policy:
LikeLike
Hello, I am a nice dark complection female.
I have read all of the responses. I still don’t understand why people are still lookng at physical appearance. Why not find someone that makes you happy? and that you both make eachother happy. Whatever happened to I just want to find someone that loves me and I him. That is what a relationship is all about. People should marry or date someone who has them in there best interest. Black or white. There are a lot of black women out there who really want to have a good descent relationship with a man who truly loves them. If she is any kind of woman than if she is treated right and he is a good man no matter what color then you both will have a gold mine relationship.
LikeLike
I’ve also noticed that there seem to be some older white men who are approaching young black women, women young enough to be their daughters. It happens to me sometimes. This leads me to believe that 1) he already has the white children that he wanted and is divorced, financially stable and is not worried about losing status and no longer cares what others think or 2) he’s just out for a good time.
I know that there are some who don’t fit either of the two who may genuinely want a relationship with a woman who happens to be black.
LikeLike
Shani says,
I’ve also noticed that there seem to be some older white men who are approaching young black women, women young enough to be their daughters. It happens to me sometimes. This leads me to believe that 1) he already has the white children that he wanted and is divorced, financially stable and is not worried about losing status and no longer cares what others think or 2) he’s just out for a good time.
laromana says,
I find OLDER WM who engage in the type of behavior Shani describes above as DISGUSTING/DISRESPECTFUL, especially when you find that MOST of these OLDER WM considered BW INVISIBLE, 2ND CLASS WOMEN (“not WORTHY” of being DATED SERIOUSLY/MARRIED by them) when they were in their youth.
LikeLike
I’m 41, mixed race and I’d say about every man I have dated since I was 18 was white or other.
A co-worker set me up with her cousin (they are Filipino and they were what you would call ‘white’ Filipino-Asians have a huge wealth/color/class thing going) and we dated long enough for me to be at her son’s wedding to a white girl. Another boyfriend was Chinese, FOB at 14 with his parents. They were not happy with me for a while, but we had a cordial relationship in the end. I really think that would have changed if we had become more serious and started talking about marriage. I might have found out that they were really Hollywood grade actors!
I do think you just about hit it on the nail when you said “So it is not uncommon to see a white man with a dark-skinned black woman with natural hair – but she will be thin and not act too “ghetto”, as they say, but more like a middle-class white woman.” I don’t think it’s the ‘white’ part so much as it’s the “Do we have anything in common in our background” thing.
I’m the product of my environment; I am very middle class and catholic in my attitudes and values. I don’t think I can shake them at this age. I do not have thin features. I look like what I am, a mix of black, native-american and welsh. My nose is what is affectionately called a button nose. I do not have high cheekbones. I have a round face and am built more along the lines of a standard soccer player (I’m right wing back) with actual breasts. I do have what Abagond called the ‘cutesie-pie face’ albeit with a button nose. I’m also a bit of a computer geek. I was watching manga mailed to me from my aunt who was stationed in Japan before it was cool. In high school, I dyed my hair blue and listened to punk and classical in an area where you were either listening to rock or hiphop. I scored in the top 2% of the country to join MENSA (had to retest to join. I had a previous IQ of 142 @ 15 but the test wasn’t recognized). I was into SciFi and comic books. I’m a Tolkien fan and a former SCA member.
Any man I date has to have something in common with me as well as a huge store of patience to deal with all my ADHD crap. It just happens that the majority of those men were white and they were initially attracted to me by my smile and then stayed glued to my side because I was me and as my ex-husband told his mom “I don’t know what it is, I went out with a lot of girls who are prettier, but there’s something about her I can’t shake.”
Ouch, I’ve written way too much. Mea culpa.
@Shani…that’s not just a older WM preying on a younger BW, it’s an older male thing, period.
This is a really interesting blog!
LikeLike
Hello everyone,
I am only on #430 so when I post some of my comments may have been addressed. This is a very interesting topic and I’m very pleased and shocked by the fact that this is one of the few blogs where White men actually participate. I’m tired of reading Black women and Black men speaking for White men. It’s nice to hear it from their own perspective. It’s not always pretty or surprising but it’s always insitghtful. I applaud you all for being very honest.
Azrazyel:
I understand where you are coming from and I applaud you for being honest. You are young and trying to figure it out like the rest of us. Please do no beat yourself up. You nor I created this world where people view each other based on race and stereotypes. My advice to you is to try to build friendships with Black women before you try to pursue a romance. At least put yourself in an enviorment where you will have access to a diverse group of Black women. I don’t know where you live but they can’t all be ghetto. How about taking a class at a local university. I’m from Chicago and although we have an underclass we also have middle and upperclass Black communities. We also have mixed raced communities where interracial dating is common. You may consider moving to a town/city that is racially diverse to broaden your horizons.
Keep your options open, it’s possible that you were never meant to be with a Black woman. Why spend time forcing yourself to date a woman that may keep you from meeting your soul mate. Just my opinion.
You ladies are brilliant.
LikeLike
@Nita
Azrayel has been banned from this site (yay!). He has called some of the very same Black women here nasty names, received warnings, pretended to change only to rinse and repeat by calling another sister names and threatening to rip her “monkey” face off. Just a little FYI.
LikeLike
Thank you Gen. Well That’s unfortunate. I suspected that all along he was a bi-polar racist waiting to pop his cork. You run into his kind on the interracial dating websites. Which is why I no longer go there looking for romance. When you first meet them they are as sweet as cherry apple pie then the next time you meet them they are calling you n-words.
LikeLike
Formerly Nita
LikeLike
Hi everyone my name is Wittany, pronounced [Whitney] I know my name is spelt very differently.
Well I’m 18 and I’m a black woman in case anyone was wondering. I just happen to come across this website and reading everyone’s comments really caught my attention.
Me personally, I find WM to be extremely attractive; don’t get me wrong I’m definately attracted to BM as well, but when it comes to men in general, race is of no matter. The same standards and expectations apply to any man that approaches me.
I have been successful at the couple of WM I’ve approached, but it would be nice if WM approached me for a change. I don’t know if its because their scared or they really aren’t interested in BW because of the stereotypes that are placed on us, which is why its hard for us to approach white men. It goes both ways.
I don’t think about slavery; of course I can’t imagine what my ancestors went through, but I don’t blame the white people of today. I think people like Martin Luther King Jr. who sacrificed for our rights so that both white people and black people; people of all races can be equal and get along. They would be proud to see interracial couples setting an example for everyone that it is possible for all of us to break through the hatred, the stereotypes, and the labels that separate us to eventually love each other.
We are all our own person, and have the right to love whom ever we choose regardless what anyone else thinks. If we let the past and bad experiences corrupt our minds and keep us restricted, then we are all going to live in tight cages and watch everyone else enjoy their freedom and happiness.
Azrazyel: Thank you for your appreciation towards BW. I like that your honesty; I mean why not get it all out in the open. I understand that you’re curious, so I hope I can answer your questions from a BW’s perspective.
I agree there should be a “White men that black women like” article. I could definitely give some input.
Oh yeah, how do I download my picture to the top right corner?
LikeLike
@Wittany Dreamie Eyes
Trust me you don’t want to be appreciated by men like Azrazyel. He’s nothing more than a whiny bi-polar liberal racist!
In his defence most yank men are whiny and bi-polar anyway! lol.
LikeLike
This is for Tia
As for a man not wanting to date a dark black woman you are wrong! I personally was always attracted to dark skin, more dark the more attracted to that woman I found. Perhaps you found that your features or the features you mentioned in a BW was not desireable but that may have been where you were located and perhaps the person or people you were around. I remember once meeting a woman black as coal with a wide nose, I could not keep my gaze from her face, she mezmorized me. It was not because i found her with features that were less than attractive! On the contrary I found myself wanting to hold her face in my hands and look deep in her dark eyes. I was shy back then and was afraid I would be shot down by her so I never asked her for coffee, she did feel that I was interested in her i think, but I will never know for a fact, one of lifes regrets. My point Tia is people are different all over and on an individual basis it is a bad thing to form a summary or a catagorie that someone is suppose to fit into. Each one of us is a collection of little things just waiting for someone to discover and appreciate. That is what I have learned and I am still learning.Skin pigment and body features are pieces of the puzzle along with personal;ity abilities, education, insite, life experiences, etc, etc. You seemed a little angry with your letter Tia, dont be as i am sure a smile on your face is far more attractive than the many muscles that are required to frown as we express displeasure and anger. Not all white guys are the same just as not all black woman are the same. Sterio types are a bad thing it is like putting blinders on a horse or better yet like watching a blue ray movie in black and white. ( 2nd analogy is for those that do not know what blinders are for horses, not everyone is into horses) I have never met you personally Miss Tia but I will say this If I did in person I think your dark skin would definitely catch my eyes! Next would be your personality but if you are an angry person personality wise it lessens my attraction to you as an individual.
2 cents plus tax
LikeLike
To Mira:
This White guy likes curvy woman and I am as pale as they come LOL! Skinny women of any colour just does not seem to do it for me and others as well that I know so do not “Classify” All white men as not liking curvy women or curvy BW. Thank you!
2 Cents Plus interests!
LikeLike
@ Vindicator:
Well Azrazyel said that BW are the most beautiful women of all races, so I’m willing to take that compliment.
I mean its just so frustrating and irritating how BW are brought down to the point that they’re undesireable.
I remember watching the Tyra show and it was about race of course; there was a BW saying how WM don’t want her, not Asian men or Hispanic men, none of them. Not even BM. I really felt for her.
It sucks that some people can’t make their own choices because their so restricted by their stereotypical state of mind.
So many great things out there, so many opportunities, and great experiences that certain people will never know because they’re so close-minded.
LikeLike
i just wanted to say that me growing up in the midwest i find it fasinating that wm dates bw.Not saying that im closed minded but i dont see that in mich.I am a cphT and i never, not even once,ever had a had wm hit on me, and i went to a prodominatly w high school and college.I glad i came across your blog because it made me see that it is possible. I always wondered but never stepped out on faith…THANKS:)
LikeLike
I’m going to ask something really stupid, sorry. What is a cphT?
LikeLike
^^^
There’s no such thing as a stupid question.
A cphT stands for Certified Pharmacy Technician.
LikeLike
Thanks!
LikeLike
This is an interesting read! I’m an African, Nigerian, precisely. I have been attracted to white men since I could date… I have often wondered why, but reading this blog gives me an insight to racial attraction– contrast is attractive. I’m dark skinned, not overly so… I hate wigs or weaves, and wear my hair in braids all the time… on the other hand, I find white male features, intensely attractive…. Interstingly… I’m quite proud… a proud African, and so people may find me contradictory… but again… this blog just showed me something about myself. Good blog Agabond. I’ll be reading 🙂
LikeLike
Tia, you are right when you say most WM who date BW want one who “acts white”. Or in other words, doesn’t conform to ghetto stereotypes. Fortunately there are plenty of BW who fit the bill.
But I don’t think dark skin puts WM off at all. I see dark skinned women with natural hair with WM a lot.
LikeLike
I know this post is really old, but I just found this blog a few days ago whilst googling ‘race and dating,’ and landed on the post about Columbia U’s research. I’ve been hooked on this blog since, even foregoing sleep to read throught the extensive replies. I have a comment about this reply you made, abagond:
“Garcelle and Gabrielle: I know for a fact that white men are attracted to them, even men who you would think would not go for black women (and mostly do not). Garcelle appeared in Playboy – a magazine whiter than Maine.
They both have that cutsie-pie face that white men seem to go for. So does Vanessa Williams, Sanaa Lathan, Lela Rochon, Sharon Leal, Janet Jackson and Kerry Washington. Not a single woman on the no-list, not even Bria, has that sort of face.”
My boyfriend is white and when we first began speaking, I asked him to list some female celebrities he thought were attractive. Of the black females, the list looked VERY similar to yours, including some of the same celebs like Gabrielle Union, Sanaa Lathan, and Kerry Washington. He has a special place in his heart for Gabrielle, and Toni Braxton, who I think also has this “cutesy” look you are talking about. I have this look as well, and he thinks I look like a mesh between Sanaa and Kerry. My boyfriend’s never been involved with a black woman before, but he said my “dainty look,” intelligence, and mannerisms, caught his eye.
I think this list probably pertains most to white men who’ve subscribed to current cultural definitions of beauty, namely those around 35 and younger. I’ve noticed amongst my white male friends that they tend to like black women like those on your list. Older ones may not share these tastes. But I think you’ve hit the mark here, for the most part.
See you around the blog. 🙂
LikeLike
Also, some background: He is from New York (;)), liberal, middle class, mid-20s computer programmer. I wonder if the men that like the women on your list don’t have a similar background; in my experience, they tend to be socially liberal and mid to upper middle class.
LikeLike
Natasha W. says,
I think this list probably pertains most to white men who’ve subscribed to current cultural definitions of beauty, namely those around 35 and younger. I’ve noticed amongst my white male friends that they tend to like black women like those on your list. Older ones may not share these tastes. But I think you’ve hit the mark here, for the most part.
laromana says,
Natasha,
I’ve noticed the opposite when it comes to what type of BW MOST OLDER American WM are attracted to vs. YOUNGER American WM. Most of the women in the first list abagond noted are 35+ and, in my first hand experience, MOST OLDER American WM have always felt the need to “play it safe” when it comes to the type of BW they will date and are more likely to go with the “cutsie pie” BW with “acceptable” features.
By the same token, I’ve been pleasantly suprised to see that MOST YOUNGER American WM tend to be more open minded/NOT AFRAID to date BW with a variety of looks.
LikeLike
The deciding factor for WM who are open to dating BW is usually education. Second to that is weight. It is not a racial thing but more so a cultural thing. They are usually raised to marry someone with education and ambition, so that usually trumps looks. Secondly their culture emphasizes a connection of beauty with weight. I have dated WM and that did not occur until I was in college. I then married one. He contended that I must always stay “healthy”, which was code word for slim. Two kids and twenty pounds later, I was no longer “healthy”. I felt too much pressure by him and his mother and got out of the relationship.
LikeLike
Wow Nita. All that drama put towards you for 20 pounds? OMG. 😦
LikeLike
Hi laromana,
“I’ve noticed the opposite when it comes to what type of BW MOST OLDER American WM are attracted to vs. YOUNGER American WM. Most of the women in the first list abagond noted are 35+ and, in my first hand experience, MOST OLDER American WM have always felt the need to “play it safe” when it comes to the type of BW they will date and are more likely to go with the “cutsie pie” BW with “acceptable” features.
By the same token, I’ve been pleasantly suprised to see that MOST YOUNGER American WM tend to be more open minded/NOT AFRAID to date BW with a variety of looks.”
Where do you live, might I ask? I’ve mainly lived on the East Coast and consequently the white men I’ve known have been from that area. I’m not as familiar with other regions of the US, although I’ve spent some time on the West Coast and noticed a similar pattern.
I think, in general, older men are less fixated on looks because finding a life partner is more important than finding a trophy wife. Also, the younger generations have grown up on media like television and internet, which have affected their views on beauty, in my experience. However, I would love to see examples that contradict my experiences. 🙂
LikeLike
Natasha W.,
I’ve lived in the Midwest and East Coast but the comments I’ve made relate to the mindsets of MOST OLDER American WM vs. those of MOST YOUNGER American WM as it relates to ANTI-BW RACISM/COWARDICE and IRR’S w/BW.
My firsthand life experiences with MOST OLDER American WM has been TOTALLY DIFFERENT and NEGATIVE than those with MOST YOUNGER American WM because MOST OLDER American WM (REGARDLESS of geographic region) have CHOSEN not to SERIOUSLY DATE and/or MARRY BW based on (their own/cultural) ANTI-BW RACISM or ANTI-BW COWARDICE (“fear ” of being stigmatized by “others” for being in a SERIOUS DATING and/or MARRIAGE relationship w/ a BW).
LikeLike
Laromana,
I understand that. The most common reasons I hear from wm of why they don’t date or enter serious relationships with bw are: they never thought about it (because they are around others of their color, for the most part), they do not find them attractive, or their family/friends wouldn’t be supportive of it. The last reason I can empahize with, to some extent, but others’ feelings on your decisions should not matter to you as much as your own feelings. My parents do not support my relationship at all, but I believe they will come to terms with it in time (My boyfriends’ family accepts me, totally).
LikeLike
Don’t be naive ladies. I think that from many of the comments that I read, some are giving White men waaay to much credit. Most White men would loooove to “get with and marry” Black women. Black women HAVE power. WE, US, control most of the social dynamic and HOW it’s played out! AND the White male KNOWS this.
White men are rejecting Black women, but I will bet that Black women are REJECTING them at an even GREATER rate. That’s one of the reasons T.Woods is castigated so in society today. Being a VERY rich Black man (yes, that’s how he’s seen) AND is able to get as much “KITTY KAT” on the OPEN market, without lifting a finger. MAN – And it’s White “KITTY KAT”.
The White male is just waiting for the day. But, Black women DO NOT lust after White males, like the White females who LUST after Black men. We just don’t. It’s ususally few and far between. And maybe some of it has to do with HISTORY and THEIR idiosyncrasies.
Waaay to much credit!
LikeLike
I am new here and all I can say is omg! Why are the people on this board so racist? The artilce is on bw wm like, yet people are saying negative things about these races. Men and women of ALL races can be bad people, end of story.
LikeLike
Are you kidding? There is nothing better than starting and ending a poor white man’s day with a beautifull African woman’s Love. Perhaps the problem in the USA is the unfortunate history of slavery. Let’s get over that and look to the future or as Dr. King said that ‘One day little black children and white children will go hand in hand together’.
I make no apoliges if I seem nieve but only as one who has had the joy of sharing so much Love with a very special African lady. While our relationship did not last as much as I wish that it did, she thaugh me the meaning of Respect and Humility by her example.
There is no God given right for whites to think themselfs superiour to our fellow races. Long live equality. We only have one life, let’s not waste it in wrong thinking.
LikeLike
God, that last post is oh so exploitable…
Down, boy.
LikeLike
WHY DO ALL YOU PEOPLE WRITE IN CAPS????? DO YOU KNOW HOW ANNOYING THAT IS????!?!? FOR …. SAKE, STTTOOOOP!!
LikeLike
maybe its because im young [18] but it seems like the topic of conversation here is centered on marriage. look, people dont get married, usually, until theire 30s. or late 20s. Whats reeeallly weird to me is that whites and blacks dont just not marry eachother, but they dont often befriend eachother, or even hook up! its strange. but, i do think times are slowly changin for the better. People need to start relating to eachother more.
LikeLike
When you preface “idiosyncrasy” with the pronoun “their,” aren’t you really ascribing a stereotype to an entire class of people by euphemism?
“They do be giving white men too much credit,” one could easily offer euphemisms for the lack of erudition, but why bother?
As a white irish-american man, and an observer, I feel sorry for black women, because the white broads are alway hitting on black men.
LikeLike
As a white irish-american man, and an observer, I feel sorry for black women, because the white broads are alway hitting on black men.
Why sorry? It seems more and more black women are changing their mindset of “waiting for a good black man.” There are so many good men out there, of all races, and they are beginning to notice this and jump on the opportunity. Personally, I don’t much care who is hitting on whom.
LikeLike
…unless, of course, it is my boyfriend they are hitting on.
LikeLike
“When you preface “idiosyncrasy” with the pronoun “their,” aren’t you really ascribing a stereotype to an entire class of people by euphemism?”
Yes, and I know the TRUTH hurts – especially, when it pertains to YOUR particular race and sex.
LikeLike
Hey I really like your blog. Check out mine at http://muchsaidbyjane.com
God bless.
LikeLike
“White troll?,” “Your race?”…lol… Only true racists brand others they do not know, as such, due to their own paranoia and incertitude. The proof is in your written words: “IGNORANT, RACIST, ANTI-BW LOSER.”
You profile me, yet you do not know me. If we were to reverse roles, you’d call me a racist and justly so. Therefore, I’ve just explained YOUR ” “idiosyncrasy.”
LikeLike
When I think of wm/bf relationship, I think it is possible for a small number of people but there are things that concern me. First, I think alot of white men may have very narrow minded images of black women. I think the stereotype of the sapphire, jezebel black women is way too prevalent in the media. Like alot of black men, white men may think that we are all the same. Also, I am concerned that alot of white men may be very racist. Some black women are concerned that in the beginning of the relationship, every thing may start out well, but if a argument happens, he might show how he really feels and call her the N word. Or when the situations gets too tough because of the racism both might experience, he will leave. Sometimes, when I think of interracial relationships I think that a white man may feel he has alot to lose from marrying a black women. White men have more priviledge in this country than any other group, even over white females. Is he willing to give up a little of his white privilege? Is he willing to live under the scrutiny of other people when he didn’t have to before. The only white men that I personally know that are married to black women were raised around black people. They know more about the culture. They probably don’t have as many racist perceptions. They have always been around black people so nothing much as changed. Also, the few white men that I have known who are with black women met their partners when they were young, like teenagers. Often times, young people don’t have as many racist preconceptions. I lived on a university campus as a child. My mother was getting her degree. I knew two small children, one a little white boy and another a little black girl. I think they liked each other. Other children had a problem with it but the two children didn’t seem to care. Young people who were exposed to other races are probably more prone to marry interracially. Most white men in this country are probrably not exposed to black women until they go to college. or at work. By that time they meet black women, they may have already been brainwash into believing racist viewpoints. But the big question is still, can the average white man handle losing white priviledge? Can he tough it out? Does he care what color his children will be? Is he willing to be exposed to a different culture all the time? I’m just curious.
LikeLike
oh yeah, by the way, if you don’t know what a sapphire or jezebel stereotype is, read abagond’s article on stereotypes concerning black women.
LikeLike
jeri, I will try to answer your questions as best I can based on my experiences with my boyfriend (I’ll refer to him as J).
First, I think alot of white men may have very narrow minded images of black women. I think the stereotype of the sapphire, jezebel black women is way too prevalent in the media.
Absolutely. And many do hold steretypical views of black women that have persisted because they haven’t personally known enough black women to see that they are untrue in a lot of cases. J has admitted that the white men he knows are hesistant about being interested in black women and are afraid of approaching them because they think of them as “emasculating” and otherwise difficult to live with. J also isn’t into women who seem to fit those stereotypes and finds them to be extremely off-putting. However, he doesn’t think all black are like this, by far. He was exposed to black people at an early age because he lived in a diverse city (although in the middle of his childhood he moved to a town which is close to 1 percent white).
Also, I am concerned that alot of white men may be very racist. Some black women are concerned that in the beginning of the relationship, every thing may start out well, but if a argument happens, he might show how he really feels and call her the N word. Or when the situations gets too tough because of the racism both might experience, he will leave.
If J ever called me the N word or made any other racially motivated derogatory comments towards me, that would mark the end of our relationship. No questions asked. And he knows me well enough to know I’m not bluffing when I say that.
We’ve disagreed before and he’s never lost his cool; he seems to be more worried about making me unhappy. But that is probably just a personality trait of his. In any case, I don’t think that will ever be a problem because he doesn’t think of people that way, i.e. their race. He sees what color they are, but he just views it as one of many aspects of their being.
A couple of times he has made comments he wasn’t aware would be offensive to a black person, but I explained to him why what he said was offensive and he was open to learning and glad that I told him so he would be aware of it. He is unaware of some things, but he’s never been deliberately disparaging of other races.
As for the last sentence, J is very intelligent and I think that as a result of his intelligence, he doesn’t care much at all what society/prejudiced people may think of him or our relationship. His family loves me, so that’s not an issue. Although I’m sure that even if they thought my race was a problem, it wouldn’t bug him much or cause him to leave. He views himself as an independent person, capable of making the right decisions that will lead to his happiness.
Sometimes, when I think of interracial relationships I think that a white man may feel he has alot to lose from marrying a black women. White men have more priviledge in this country than any other group, even over white females. Is he willing to give up a little of his white privilege?
J knows that he can only gain from marrying me. 🙂
To be honest, he sees me more as an asset rather than a liability. He recognizes my inner and outer beauty and wants every part of it. We went through a period of time where I was thinking of leaving him (for reasons unrelated to race) and he was so distraught; I’ve never seen him in such a state. He made me vow to never do that again. So I couldn’t see him ever being so worried about privilege that he would entertain ending our relationship.
Also, the few white men that I have known who are with black women met their partners when they were young, like teenagers. Often times, young people don’t have as many racist preconceptions.
J and I aren’t married (although we will be in time, if everything goes according to plan), but we met in our 20s. The last sentence seems about right. But then you have to contend with more prevalent media influences of beauty; only certain types of black women are hailed as beauties and that affects others’ perceptions of black women as a whole. Some will fit these ideals, many will not.
But the big question is still, can the average white man handle losing white priviledge? Can he tough it out? Does he care what color his children will be? Is he willing to be exposed to a different culture all the time? I’m just curious.
I consider J to be much like the average white guy in terms of background: middle class, liberal (very much so), lives in a mostly white area, social groups and friends are mainly white. So if he can handle being in a relationship with a black woman, there is some hope that there are others like him.
To the last two questions (This has been a long post!): We’ve discussed children, in fact we’ve nearly beaten the race discussion to death. To the idea, he said “Because of you, our future children will be beautiful and intelligent… Yeah, I think I can live with that.” And he is ever curious about other cultures and life in general, so he is very open to taking part in another culture. In fact, he always asks about my family’s culture and daily life.
Hope you find this helpful. (Otherwise I’ve wasted a comment and a good chunk of time 🙂 ).
LikeLike
Natasha W
Thanks. What you said was very informative. When I was young, I was curious about dating outside of my race. I even dated a couple of white men, but I had my concerns about whether the relationship would last. I’m happy to know that there are people such as you and your boyfriend who are determined to make it work and who are truly in love.
LikeLike
“First, I think alot of white men may have very narrow minded images of black women.” “But the big question is still, can the average white man handle losing white priviledge.”
I attended school all my life with blacks and it’s laughable how many who came from better homes than I did, played the race card even if they dealt it from the bottom of the deck.
I happen to know that not every black comes “da hood.” And I want some of that “white privildege,” that you allude to. When you can attend prestigious universities like Princeton or Havard, like the First Lady, or Sonia Sotomayer did, I want some that “priviledge” because it’s not in my payscale.
It seems to be you girl’s be drinking too much of that koolaid.
LikeLike
Your statement assumes people are not racist, that only class holds people back.
If you are a white American who went to a state university then you probably made as much money as they did coming out of an Ivy. Even with an Ivy League educatioh whites with far less education and intelligence will still think they are better than you if you are black; they will still doubt your education and intelligence.
Here is a good example of what I mean:
LikeLike
I am living in Canada, Toronto in particular. My observation leads me to believe that the women listed in “cutisey pie” list are not the ones that the Canadian men are dating. They are going for the darker, medium build women, ethnic type of women. They also have no problem displaying their love and devotion in a public setting. Toronto has a very diverse in cultures. Therefore we are interacting with many differnt white men from all over the globe. Most do not shy away from dating black women.
ladytbl
LikeLike
Lovin’ your blog! Inter-racial topics intrigue me.
My husband of 26 yrs resembles LLCool J (only shorter & not as trim now), I resemble Jodie Foster (only not as thin & without such a sharp nose) & we have a beautiful daughter who resembles Alicia Keys.
Seeing mixed couples together makes me smile. Nobody knows what got them or what keeps them together. Nobody feels what they themselves feel about each other. It’s the same with ANY couple, mixed or not. In our experience, nobody really “gets it” unless they see your kids with you. That’s how it is with us. It’s mostly black women who don’t like our mix & they shoot those glaring looks at my husband. Me? I nix it off. THEY DON’T KNOW US.
I agree with some here who’ve said that white men go for ‘black’ women who ain’t ‘ghetto’. They usually want her ladylike & refined. Then again, WE DON’T KNOW THEM. Not all men are alike just as not all women are either. JMO.
LikeLike
ladytbl
I went to college in Toronto, Casa Loma and I could not agree with you more. I was studying too hard to go out and venture around but like you said there is alot more relaxed interracial there. I live outside Winnipeg MB and have some friends from Uganda and Kenya. Even they mention the same that there is not less but more interracial friendships and relationships than friends further south. Perhaps when I go back for refrigeration I will take more time while in Toronto to enjoy the various groups in T Dot.
Paul
LikeLike
Wonderful blog and discussions! Keep up the good work. Will add my great and wonderful experiences soon. Thanks!
LikeLike
D”Trent
Well fortunately there are many black women who ARE lady like. I consider myself educated, ladylike, and refined. In fact, when I worked at my last job, people used to tell me all the time I acted like a “white women”. I guess its because I speak “proper”. People also said I have the patience of Job, not ghetto. Many black women are that way. I personally think being patient, pleasant, approachable, and intelligent is not a white woman characteristic, people assume that it is.
LikeLike
jeri says,
Well fortunately there are many black women who ARE lady like. I consider myself educated, ladylike, and refined. In fact, when I worked at my last job, people used to tell me all the time I acted like a “white women”. I guess its because I speak “proper”. People also said I have the patience of Job, not ghetto. Many black women are that way. I personally think being patient, pleasant, approachable, and intelligent is not a white woman characteristic, people assume that it is.
laromana says,
jeri,
Thanks for clarifying this OBVIOUS FACT about MOST BW. It’s tiresome to see ANTI-BW LIES, MYTHS, and STEREOTYPES constantly being promoted by MANY BM, American culture/media, and by MANY ANTI-BW RACIST Americans.
LikeLike
laromana
That’s right. It’s ridiculous. It just shows how ignorant most people are.
LikeLike
What about the Latino experience? They are bound to be majority in a few years, which means this country will be a reflection of south Africa, where the majority is dominated by the minority.
The trend right now seems to be that it’s OK for a white man to date and perhaps marry a Latino girls , but not the other way around. And, between blacks and Latino, it seems like they repel each other , no matter what gender they are.
LikeLike
I think what some people here fail to see is that raceism is different depending on location on the planet not just North America. In my location for an example if I was to apply for a job either big industry or government and have the same qualifications as a black person especially if the black person is female that person automatically has 2 extra check marks beside their name? That is because a black person or asian or native person is considdred a minority they are given preference to fill a mandate to promote equality in the workplace by filling minority hire mandates.As I go south of the Can Usa boarder I see small segregations and as I move further south towards Alabama and texas I see more stronger segragations. Now first point I made could be considered a form of racism against me because I am white and the native minority population is high the government slates a high level of hire at a local mill to be filled by minorities. So is it fair that someone less qualified than me gets a job over me because of their skin colour? No wether it is the reverse in the south or in the other extream in my case it is not fair either way. Does it create racial tension? Yes it does. Where does it end? Well one musician wrote a song that change has to happen on an individual level but with everyone. that goes for dating, jobs, family life, our neighbours etc. I see comments about “kissing peoples butts” and ” stop trying to please white people”, or ‘This is the UGLY TRUTH about the ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE that MOST WM in Amerca have towards BW.” These statements are balanced or one sided? Are they statements blanketing all within a certain race and grouping people in segregated blocks or not? You be the judge and while you think of it look back in time at not just all the bad things but ALL the things that has brought society to this point. Painting every single person of a race with the same brush is in itself a prejudicial act in itself really. I think if we all look at the big picture things have changed alot over time but just as the Black Mucisian the late Michael Jackson himself wrote change is up to each person. I think if we as a person wish to not be judged and painted unfairly by others then we too need to also make sure we are not doint that very same thing. It is all too easy to point a finger at someone but how many of us look at what we say and notice that when we point how many fingers on our own hand are pointing back at us? It is not easy to be an individual in society and go against the grain but if we look at history and see what segregation was a long time ago versus now I think there is good results, a sign of progress. in interracial relationships as well as the rest of societys little clicks, depending on where you live. I think if the paint brushes are put away alot of problems will become obscure and so minute they will be like driving over a crack in the road, nothing to worry about on the journey of life. people that are hatefull stand out in any crowd no mater what race they are. out of thousands you can always point out the trouble ones in a crowd as they stand out like a sore thumb, does that mean we focus on them and not notice the rest of the people around the nasty angry ones?
2 cents plus tax
Paul
LikeLike
laromana says
This is the UGLY TRUTH about the ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE that MOST WM in Amerca have towards BW.”
Paul,
I clearly qualified my stament above to exclude those WM who ARE NOT ANTI-BW RACIST/HATERS.
Perhaps you should reserve your outrage for ANTI-BW RACIST/HATERS instead of being critical of BW for speaking out against them.
Also, NO ONE on this post has said that they’re in favor of hiring unqualified employees solely because they are NON-WHITE.
LikeLike
Paul:
You quote Laromana as saying:
“‘This is the UGLY TRUTH about the ANTI-BW RACISM/HATE that MOST WM in Amerca have towards BW.””
You use this as an example of:
“Painting every single person of a race with the same brush is in itself a prejudicial act in itself really.”
Only Laromana did not do that. She did not paint EVERY SINGLE person of a race with the same brush. She was careful to say “MOST” white men, not EVERY SINGLE one of them.
An extremely common exchange on this blog goes like this:
Black person: Many white do x.
White person: Not all whites do x.
What did we just say? Do you think we have no idea what prejudice is or blanket statements? You think those things are new to us or something?
SOME white people come on this blog and instead of reading what black people say, just assume what they said and talk about that instead. It is strange how white people do this way more than blacks. Do you think that is a helpful way of lessening racism? No: it comes across as yet another put-down, as yet another case of white people not seeing the black people right in front of their eyes but instead some self-serving image of them in their heads.
LikeLike
the thing about skinny figure I don’t agree with.. well maybe its true in america.
In Italy a lot of men like a women(white or black) with a shapely figure.
big hips and bottoms are still popular there.
LikeLike
There aren’t enough racialized or native people in Canada to take all the jobs from white people, sorry.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_groups_in_canada
LikeLike
abagond,
Thanks for helping to clarify my comments to Paul and for pointing out how he was misrepresenting what I said.
I also wanted to say that attacking BW’s attractiveness to men (when women’s attractiveness to men matters a great deal to women of ALL RACES) is a MAJOR way that ANTI-BW RACIST/HATERS DEMEAN, DEGRADE, and DISRESPECT the HUMANITY, DIGNITY, and FEMININITY of BW.
LikeLike
Man you crazy. Jill Marie Jones is hot as fire. She is the kinda woman I would be attracted to. Strong but feminine, Loud but classy. She is hot. No doubt.
Sada is sexy as all get out too.
There ain’t nothing wrong with either of those women or any of the women you have pics of on this blog.
I would not kick any of them out of the bed for eating crackers.
Unity by any means necessary!
LikeLike
I am an Educated/fully employeed BW…however…my skin color is carmel and my hair is not natural…Ive had my share of dating WM and truly find them attractive and interesting…I prefer to date WM over BM…this is because WM appear to accept and want to date me more then BM..in addtion, they are more accepting of me but I have to day..not to long ago…I was told by a WM…I was not darker enough…so you get it from both sides (BM and WM) whats a carmel sister to do ?
LikeLike
Black people don’t like white people- you know it and I know it.
LikeLike
hi patrick
LikeLike
Nia, caramel sister is to tan. JK!!
LikeLike
I’m White, your comments rub me the wrong way sometimes.
LikeLike
Black people don’t like white people- you know it and I know it.
Patrick, what is your opinion on the reverse statement?
Nia, would you mind elaborating on your experiences with black men (vs. white men)?
LikeLike
Nia, if anyone tells you are not enough of this or too much of that, drop them.
LikeLike
Patrick, what is your opinion on the reverse statement?
I won’t dispute its mendacity, but based on this blog alone, can you deny the aforementioned statement?
LikeLike
Patrick,
I won’t dispute its mendacity, but based on this blog alone, can you deny the aforementioned statement?
…Why would I base my views of black people on this blog alone?
Would I go to Steve Sailer’s blog and conclude white people hate black people? And Sailer’s blog is much more extreme than this one. Actually, I could just look at the comments by white posters on this blog and conclude white people clearly hate black people, but I would be wrong. Obviously this blog attracts certain types of commenters: those that are racially conscious and, in many cases, have very decided views on race. That goes for both the black and white commenters. But rest assured, the average black/white person is more centered in their views. They may have certain prejudices, but hate? I don’t think so.
LikeLike
I swear that is sooo true. Finding a White guy with a light complexioned Black woman is very rare. White guys normally date extremely dark skinned black women. As far as looks and physique goes, I have to disagree. I have seen corporate looking White guys with dark skinned black girls that often times look and dress like a “hood” girl. Weave/Wig included. I am a biracial female and my dad is White. He and my Mom’s relationship did NOT work at all. She was half white/Cuban. My mom is light skinned with wavy hair and green eyes. Weighing 101 pounds WET, my DAD’s wandering eye was always caught looking at dark skinned, big booty, black women. Some were educated and nice looking while most were “grenades launchers” and uneducated. So, White or not, MEN like what they like and the same can be said about women. Maybe White guys feel if they go black, they must go all the way Black! I must say this, if a corporate WHITE guy is with a hood girl I think it states something about the White Guy’s persona moreso than a stigma against the hood girl. Regardless, I hope no one Black, white, male or female found this post disrespectful, I am only speaking my opinion.
LikeLike
What is this obsession with everyone else, the only way you can ever live a life worth living is by thinking about your own well-being and how can you do that when what you allow to resonate in your brain is so negative quote Miss Congeniality 2 “people care about people that care about themselves” Do you think I was put on this earth to give 10 shades of expletives about someone I don’t know and who doesn’t know me. What does this all boil down to really, hey, let’s be honest this animosity only stems from the fact that everyone likes to be liked, loved, adored even and can’t bear the thought that yeah maybe half of those 6 billion people in the world may not give a flying amount expletives about you, hurts. You know life is a numbers game SOME WILL SOME WONT SO WHAT NEXT get with the program. Yeah some people have an opinion that’s their own problem, be it favourable or not I try to think about things that make me feel happy, good. I’m not perfect but I am hot lol but what I do is try and trying is all I can do. Just try to be original and not regurgitate past experiences, the world has changed and you know how is does by having respect for yourself.
LikeLike
My German-Canadian brother-in-law was married to my(unmistakably
African-Canadian,but NOT NEARLY DARK AS I)black sister,so perhaps these pairings are frequent.However,I prefer VERY dark-skinned,big-
haired,big boob,leggy black babes,particularly Caribbean “birds.”
LikeLike
How about Aisha Tyler?
I think she is very attractive, funny, and smart.
Do you consider her to be light skinned or more black featured? I became a fan of hers when she was on Fifth Wheel. Now I think she was on a CSI show or something like that.
She is very hot imo.
I’m just curious on how you would classify her.
LikeLike
Oh and don’t forget Chirstina Milian.
Now she is smokin’ hot!
Do you consider her black or light skinned?
Just curious here too.
LikeLike
i consider her both, she’s a light-skinned black
LikeLike
Hey everyone! I’m a biracial military brat and it has its pros & cons…
Apparently I’m considered pretty pretty, but not pretty enough for one of my races, which is Asian if you didn’t guess by the nickname :-). Or by very many WM. I have met a few but the things they would say to me somehow always involved other BW they have dated. So I really don’t count them, it seemed more like a notch they were trying to add to their “How many BW I’ve been with belt”.
It really bothers me that I can so freely think outside of the way that society leads most people to feel, but I can’t meet anyone else that feels the same.
I’ve meet a lot of BM that date WW, which is cool, but the reasoning behind it is because he can’t find anything good amongst the BW or some crap like that. And reading some of the post, apparently some WM feel the same about their WM being the reason they date outside their race, but that’s really foolish because all people are the same. It has nothing to do with the race, but the upbringing, mindframe and choices of the individual person.
If you go to Korea’s ghetto’s you’ll find the same time of activities & crap going on there that you would find in New Yorks. If you go to a college campus in Switzerland, its very likely it would be the same atmosphere as LSU.
That’s what’s wrong with the U.S. and a few other countries, but mostly the U.S., we are just as racist as we want to be and have excuse after excuse to remain that way. It seems everyone is scared of differences. I love the way one the bloggers, Paul I beleive, said that that’s what attracts him to BW, is the fact that they are different from him. Opposites attract indeed!
This country is really sickening and is built on a lie all the way to its name….. The “United” States my ass. When will that name actually start to mean something, when hell freezes over I guess.
LikeLike
Whites hate black people that’s why you kidnapped us treated us like animals and centuries later its the same nastiness from the past.
I didn’t “kidnap” anyone- I try to eschew any form of ignorance. The tree is known by its fruit, and is denial of history. Tribal chiefs sold slaves to the Europeans, but you won’t hear that from the race husters. All you’ll hear is revisionist history. Why?
Africans had a wealth of experience when it comes to “enslaving” and in fact, Europeans learned the practice from them. That’s why they call it the “dark continent”- it’s a big dark secret.
It only stands to reason, if the matrix of civilization was rooted in Africa, then it’s reasonable to assume slavery has its genesis there too. After all, didn’t the great society of Egypt (who race hustlers contend was Black) enslave the jews?
This is why I say, black folks don’t like white folks.
LikeLike
Good evening All,
I stumbled upon this blog and have been riveted by the diversity of opinions… I have never read or contributed to a blog before, but the lucidity of some and crippling myopia of others has compelled me to add my voice to this dissonant chorus.
I would like to pose a question. When will we stop punishing sons for the sins of their fathers?
From the dawning of civilization ‘man has dominated man to his injury.’ We are all blood guilty…
The legacy of the past serves as lessons for the future. We must allow the past to guide us to a homogeneous future, not browbeat our brothers and sisters with it. When I use the term brothers and sisters I am referring to the brotherhood of man; this dysfunctional family-humanity, and when I refer to homogeneity I mean the dissolution of imaginary racial borders in that we recognize and appreciate ethnic differences while acknowledging and promoting similarities.
Peace be with you…
LikeLike
I don’t know if Paul still visits this blog, but I found a comment that was directed at me, so I’ll answer:
@Paul
To Mira:
This White guy likes curvy woman and I am as pale as they come LOL! Skinny women of any colour just does not seem to do it for me and others as well that I know so do not “Classify” All white men as not liking curvy women or curvy BW. Thank you!
I never said “all white men”, did I? I said “majority”. I might be mistaken here, but yes, I do believe majority of white men don’t like curvy (thick) women. My experience is, of course, limited as one person’s experience can be, but that is something I noticed. (As a thick girl growing up with white guys you bet I noticed).
Of course there are white men who like curvy (thick) women, but I do believe they are exceptions, not the rule.
PS-The funny thing is, majority of men, regardless of race, say they like “curvy” women. But to white men, “curvy” can mean anything that is not anorexic figure. Many, for example, consider Megan Fox to be curvy (?!?), while Jennifer Lopez or Kim Kardashian are considered “way too thick”, almost fat. White guys do like some of the thick women, such as Scarlett Johannson or Monica Belluci. But they tend to focus on breasts more than hips and bottom.
LikeLike
Euro
It is good to know that some people are willing to care about all people regardless of race. It is unfortunate that some of the bad apples make it difficult for everyone.
LikeLike
@ Euro Man
Kudos to love without borders! The world needs more people like you.
LikeLike
I enjoyed reading this article, because I always wondered about this and the specifics. A lot of truth in the blog and reading so many different perspectives. I noticed Sade Adu was in the 2nd category of BW that WM “didnt” find attractive, that one I have to 100% disagree. WM love love love Sade, especially European men. But black and all men I would consider finding attractive.
As a 28 year old BW, I have dated out of my race a few times with White, East Indian, North African, Spanish, and Native American men (I am celebate). I would like to be in a realtionship that would lead to marriage with someone outside my race, complexion wouldnt matter for me as I think all shades of men are attrative. I know some may be offended that in most cases, I would prefer not to be with BM.
Yes, I find them very attractive but I believe for me it stemmed with relationships were not as good, which happens with any color. But I was once married before to a black Caribbean from the Bahamas, we were together for 6 ys (dated 3 ys and was married 3 ys) and he as my first and only love. But, the relationship later became abusive in many ways, as well as his family were abusive verbally and emotionally and they made my life a living hell. I tried to remain optimisitic and that things will improve and work itself out, but it didnt.
Many times he would tell me that no Asian, white, or even AA men and Caribbean men would ever want to be with me, that I did not meet their standards of beauty and how i should feel fortunate that he made me, saying I was too fat (I was a size 9), too dark (around Gabriell Union’s color), and that my hair was too nappy because it was straight or wavy. Although he was brown-skinned, his sisters were very lightskinned because they were a mullato fam but with very dark tones in the fam as well. His sisters would insult me as well say I was cheating b/c I’m black american woman, call me whore and b***** and that for him of get rid of me, wich he would throw me out of my own home or oulrdnt let me drive, tqke my car and house keys so I couldnt leave the house.
It reached to a point we were always fussing and I slowly began to hate him and his family. By the end my self-esteem was torn to shreds there was nothing left to rebuild myself up and felt worthless, he physically was abusive
and began to cheat, he felt no guilt when I found out, he actually seemed to take some form of pride inwhat he was doing. The story goes on and on…but that was my last negative experience w/ him and my experiences befor him were not good either I had w/ black men from everywhere.
I know all black men are not bad butmnay of the ones that came into my life abandoned me, including my father..so we do not have a good track record. The marriage ended 4 years now (although I was able to legally complete it 1 year ago..and being in the court room and he or no one was their, that was the worse day of my life. My older sister didnt even want me to be with another black man, as she dated and married to white men. But, white men love her because her hair is natural bong, fairskin, green eyes as she looks like my grandfather. So, I learned early on her reality was not my reality and I was overlooked while with her.
My ex and I went our separate ways 4 years ago and we havent seen eachother sense, he moved back to the bahamas and in a relationship with a native woman , something he always wantted I later learned. And I cant help but wonder how he worships her for just being the “right”nationality, but when he had nothing when he came to the States, I sacraficed for him and gave all of me…I’m glad I backed out of the greencard he and his family were trying to get out of me..
I dont want to fall back into another relationship linke that ever…yet I feel I’m waisting time. I see many BM jump at the chance to be with a WW, so I date WM and all the colors in between. I was shocked that I would be approached by men of different races and colors, they say how beautiful I am and so on, this is very flattering for me, yes. But the pain never left no matter how I tried to treat it, and the pain also turned into bitterness, which would help explain why I havent been in a relationship or remarried as of yet, I’m still celebate and would love to remarry and have a family before I get too old. but getting past the pain is hardbefore things could start off, so I usually part my separate ways.
LikeLike
You put Phylicia Rashad in the second category? Are you crazy? LOL. Sade? Are you out of your mind?
LikeLike
I just happened onto this site and I find your blog very interesting … there are many of opinions that we have of each other and what one might concider attractive and what one might not.. has it ever occur to any of you that no one can or will find you attractive until we find ourselves attractive.. not because of the tone of our skin ,,the texture of our hair and the frame of our bodies….its because of the beauty we have within.. until we connect with that which is within we won’t have a snowflake chance in hell to connect with anyone no matter his ethnicity. Remember… Before beauty gets into the eyes of the beholder it must first manifest itsef in the psyche of the beheld.. Peace and loves..
Oh,,,bytheway..Iam a black woman and “in love” with a white man from Sweden and he is “in love” with me.. its a mutual thing
LikeLike
This subject is a generality and not a rule lke Abogond explained.
I don’t think attraction is based on race for many. It’s based on “beauty in the eye of the beholder” more than anything but there does seem to be a trend.
However, to profile a white male should be as acceptable as profiling a black male. I’m glad to see that there are blacks that agree with racial profiling.
I personally wouldn’t date “ghetto” no matter the color of their skin. I know “ghetto” is also a generalization, but I’m sure you know what I mean. And there are “ghetto” acting females in most races.
I see that education is used as a standard for some white males, but that too is over-rated. It’s an issue of the heart and beieve it or not our hearts are the same color no matter your race.
Oh and as I’ve stated before in other comments, the term racism/racist is not used properly most of the time here. Is that due to ignorance or a flat out attempt to change the meaning?
LikeLike
Note for BW: Double blind dates have a funny way of cutting through the BS if the middleman is a respected friend to both parties in the date. As a WM relying on the usually visual cues for self selected dates; skinny, red-head, green eyes, freckles across the nose left BW needless to say off the radar. Guess my friend knew me well enough to a) match me to a very compatible friend (now spouse), b) give me very detailed profile and worked up over her mental landscape (likes D&D, reading, camping, certain types of music, a teacher, not a wilting flower) and c) leave out some details (e.g. that she was/is a BW and quite “afro-centric” [weirdo terminology] in features at that…e.g. no picture. Incidentally, he (a WM) did not omit such details to her as she was open to “fence-crossing”. By his arrangement we were to/did pick each other out based on using armbands. Needless to say the first date was rather stilted but the mental stuff clicked so it led to a second “let’s be friends” date, but the connection was strong enough to eventually drive it onto the marriage track.
LikeLike
you seemed to mention that you have a theory for what type of white women black men like.i’m not so sure. but why not start a thread on that…
LikeLike
“A co-worker told me to watch a show called “Battle of the Bods”. At first, I wasn’t interested because it is kinda tacky, but it is a very interesting, almost social experiment. It is were a panel of 3 guys judge a woman’s looks (of which there are 5 women) in 3 different segments. The first is face, then the women pick a body part (breast or butt) and finally overall appearance.”
If you go to the website for that show, the black women consistently had the highest ratings. This was the on-air rating they posted.
LikeLike
Correction….I read having a score of 5 means you ranked higher which in this case was the opposite.
Those black women didn’t look manly at all, they were very thin with no muscles, some of them.
LikeLike
Dear readers,
I have just read the entire list of posts… I originally came to the site because I was interested in the original intent, that is, what women (black or otherwise) would men (white or otherwise) find attractive.
I admit to being in my late 50s (I don’t know how I got here, since in my head, I’m still 18), but that does NOT make me a dirty old man of any sort.
Growing up in Hawthorne, California (yes, home of the Beach Boys, who lived behind us for a while), I can honestly say that there was very little interaction between any of the races then. Hawthorne was about 99% white, middle-class, working class, WASP.
That’s not an excuse, just background.
Growing up, I went to Catholic grade school, where the nuns would send you to hell for talking to any girl, black, white, purple, whatever.
I grew up during the Watts riots… not a good time. For anyone today to think the 60s were so great, we had racial riots, political riots, the draft, the war, assasinations, parents who really didn’t care what you thought, and pretty much still didn’t in the 70s.
Interaction between different religious groups wasn’t that common, either, when I come to think about it, unless you were in public school, and then, why would religion come up?
Back then, quite a few of the Catholic high schools were single sex, so there’s that.
I went to Loyola University of Los Angeles… they were JUST starting to enroll women then.
I went into education, eventually working up to principal of Junipero Serra High School, in Gardena, CA. from 1989 to 1993. For the twenty years I was there, it was predominantly a black student body, all boys, and I was the one that worked to bring co-education to the school.
Even today, thanks to Facebook and Classmates, I receive emails from former students.
About six years ago, my family moved to rural Indiana west of Indy. I tutor at the local public high school.
A few years ago, the black population at the school began to grow because of families fleeing the public system in Indy. Needless to say, this small formerly all white community was, let’s say, perturbed.
I, in my west coast mentality, didn’t see what the fuss was all about, but soon figured it out, that the KLAN was still alive and well out here. Damn!
Today, there doesn’t seem to be much of a fuss (at least overt) anymore about the new students coming in.
There are a good number of black-white pairings… mostly young black men and white girls… I asked one friend what he thought was the reason, and he said (now, this is him talking, not me) that the girls did it to really PO their parents. I don’t think so, although I have noticed that a goodly number of the girls are always getting suspended for discipline problems, including problems with me, who is about as easy going as anyone can be.
I would hope that someday, we aren’t worrying about this topic. That people would be seen first for their personality, which, to be honest, is all that there is down through time, since we all get older and beauty, indeed, is only skin deep.
For the most part, we meet and date and marry those who we meet. For someone to consciously say “I’m going to go out and find a black woman” is as assinine as to say “I’m going to find an Irish woman or a French woman or even an Italian woman to date and marry,” when there are none in your social circle.
We’re not talking about saving up to buy a sports car, are we? No, we’re talking about living human beings, each with her own aspirations about life, love, and education.
My wife, whom I’ve been married to for 32 years, only graduated from high school, while I have two Masters plus enough for a third. What do we have in common?
We have similar backgrounds of family and culture (Italian for her yet she grew up in France, and I’m Italian-Irish and all American).
We want the same things in life, love, family, children, compassion, fun, interests (which each of us has come to appreciate the other’s).
Has life been easy for us? Hell, no! It turned out she is bi-polar, manic depressive and for 25 years, nobody knew and life was ‘interesting’ and pretty tough. But, we stayed together.
It seems like no-one is getting married today. There are more single parent women than can be ascribed to by death of the spouse.
In my humble yet somewhat informed opinion, this is the biggest obstacle to having a meaningful relationship that would lead to marriage.
Sleeping with someone just because you can and there is no commitment is degrading to the human condition, and when women, regardless of race, creed, color, etc., would hold that to heart, I would hope that would end a lot of the problems all women have.
Here, I see everyday, pregnant teenage girls, ‘because he said he loved me’, and now ‘he goes the other way when he sees me.’
Thanks for reading… I hope that I didn’t upset too many people, but that’s my take.
And… I am writing a short story regarding the marriage of a bi-racial woman and a white man.
Jim
LikeLike
There are two types of people in this world: those who use pleonasms to validate their hatred- and those who deem such behavior as juvenile.
LikeLike
Abagond,
“…And yet they do prize whiteness in women, even in black women, but the whiteness they want is not as simple as skin color. It is more in how she talks and acts…”
Let a white male address this for you. Just by that statement alone I can tell you that you don’t get out much, nor do you know black people.
Before I go further, let’s snatch another quote:
“…So it is not uncommon to see a white man with a dark-skinned black woman with natural hair – but she will be thin and not act too “ghetto”, as they say, but more like a middle-class white woman….”
Who told you that “ghetto” was the barometer for the average black person?
Do yourself a favor and stop labeling black men and women who have careers, speak other languages, travel, plan for retirement, as middle-class whites, it makes your lack of understanding of America’s black population very, very obvious.
As a white male, who has been married twice to black women (the last being current), I am definitely not looking for anything “white” in a black women. I seek financial stability, good character, strong morals and values, etc.
These qualities are not exclusive to whites.
Do yourself a favor and get to know black people before you write on their behalf.
Interracial Love Magazine
News, articles, and discussion in support of interracial love, interracial sex, and interracial dating between White men and Black women.
LikeLike
Actress Alfre Woodard’s husband is white. Does she have the face type white men sterotypically go for?
LikeLike
I believe white men will date and even marry black women with similar background, values & education. The more they share in common, the more likely this will lead to marriage. A friendship, attration that ends with love. I beleive the black womans socio-economic background and physical appearence is key; meaning all the black women I know that have dated white men come from upper-middle class families, were educated at the best schools, are now professionals and have the time and money to spend on their upkeep. They are slim, have finner features (although they are various shades- light cocoa to silky charcoal) , only wear the latest fashions and have their hair straightened every week. If they were not educated, attractive and took care of themselves better than most of the white women I know, I do not think they would be with white men. The men that are with them- wait on them hand and foot. I have 4 frineds that have this mix- black women married to white men who adore them. It’s actually bizarre. I have never seen married men who cater to their wives like servants and I know many happy couples. I think it’s wonderful people have found their match but my only concern is what is this teaching their daughters. Only white men are desirable? I love my friends but I did find it a little odd that my four black female friends married white men. There where plenty of professional, smart, good looking black men in our dating pool- I cannot believe one of them did not marry something other than white (white America- all the guys actually look the same)??? I hate to say it but it’s almost as if their chief criteria was- White. All four of these girls very once dated anything other than white- (no black, latin, asian). They said they were not attracted to anyone who wasn’t white. I worry for their children – what philosophy will they teach them?
LikeLike
i cant believe i read this none sense from some of you.
you like what you like but that does not mean that what you like is any better than what you dont, also you cant just say you like one thing when you have not seen it all and also look at one person and pass judgement on the rest
Example: i would not look at a blonde haired blue eyed white male and a red haired one and say the blonde looks better because of his hair color and eye color, the red haired one may look better still, the same goes for black people, you can’t judge black ppl on skin color because we have to many colors you can be light skinned with short hard hair and ugly or dark with long hair and look good or the other way around or white and ugly or the other way around.my point? people are to different to be judged.
YOU LOOK GOOD or YOU DONT
its that simple and you ppl who are trying to make beauty more complicated than that got problems and you need to stop
LikeLike
I’m Native American, Choctaw Indian, with dark skin so I get treated like “black” and that’s the only reason why I came across this topic. It applies to dark-skinned Indians, dark-skinned Puerto Ricans, dark-skinned Anybody The White Man Thinks is Black. I get mistaken for Black so much I’m about to go live on the reservation down in Choctaw, Mississippi just so I can be ME for a change! I’m almost looking forward to the fact that the only way to get a job teaching Math or Science with this skin color is to go to the Bronx where I can be “mistaken for Puerto Rican” and get the damn JOB.
But as for white men giving me the time of day: I was raised in the suburbs, college-prep, took Latin, then French and German in high school, graduated that suburban college-prep almost-private high school and went straight to college and graduated, don’t smoke, drink, do drugs, no out of wedlock babies, no criminal record (hence the teaching credentials granted in every state I apply – some people look at the colour of my skin and assume I must have a criminal record!) all of this makes me what we Indians call an “apple.” White on the inside, red on the outside. And yet because most decent men who would be compatible with me – white, naturally. That’s what I was raised around and “just like” and that’s what I’m most comfortable WITH and damnit, that’s what I WANT and deserve! – see the shade of my skin and immediately assume “black” and all the stereotypes that go with that, they shun me like some kind of contagious disease they don’t want to get. I try online, dating websites where you put your picture and a description of yourself, lifestyle, interests, education, hobbies, etc, and what you’re looking for, and with my picture on them I get NOTHING. When I make it clear “black ghetto trash stay away” then I get no responses; when I don’t put my picture I get some responses and then when I do send my picture after a few back-and-forth emails, then all communication stops. As in they were interested in me until they saw me. I get that on the jobsearch front, too. Math or science teaching or intern positions offered to me over a telephone interview and then taken back when they see me after I’ve gone thousands of miles to get there.
I’ve found that Mediterranean-types, some Italians, some Frenchmen, some Greeks, etc, can actually stand to look at me. And I did meet a nice Russian guy – this was in Europe, of course. Now, granted, over in Europe they’re giving me the time of day because I’m an American and Canadian citizen so I know that’s what they want — and these days I’m OK with that. At least that would be a temporary marriage and they’d get to know me well enough that maybe we’d wind up as actual friends. My feeling is that that may be my key to getting a husband who’s the right color and right upbringing and working and can support me – find a European person, not these white Americans who turn their beliefs and prejudices against Black women onto the Native Americans as well.
I don’t even get the decency of being hit with the stereotypes of the American Indian woman. What men think of “Pocahantas” and why or why not marry an American Indian woman and treat her decently like a human being and not like a walking female organ. (I’m a Biotechnology major after dumping Pre-Law because the legal profession was just too damn racist for me to keep a job in). No, me, I’m getting hit with being treated like a race I”m NOT and having to deal with that everywhere I go. White men don’t not want “Pocahantas,” I’m finding. They just think I’m NOT an American Indian and rather “black” and THAT’s what they don’t want.
Mistaken racial identity is what makes my life suck.
LikeLike
I’m white and the images posted of both groups, are incredibly beautiful. I could not put one over the other preferentially, but on an individual basis in each group . If talking pure aesthetics, it seems to the whole package includes proportion, balance, radiant qualities of health etc; which are independent of race.
LikeLike
Hey there, interesting article and you may be right. Yes, im way late on this convo but I’ll post anyway as attractive black women are pretty much my obsession.
However, I am a white man who is very much more attracted to your second batch of pics minus Phylicia Rashad of course. I mean I grew up watching the cosby show for god’s sake. I think of her like my mom haha.
I do agree about white ideals of beauty though. I think it’s more exposure than anything. In college about five of us shared a house, all white dudes, and we had this collection of porn we all pooled. Of course all mine was interracial stuff with very dark skinned hotties like jada fire and let me tell you, those tapes were mysteriously missing and in some dude’s room way more than this articles conclusion would make you think!
Good point, whomever said, about white guys being timid around black girl’s. This is true. But can you blame tham, the average liberal “white guilt” white dude lives in terror of offending you and gets nervous. They are pretty much indoctrinated that all black women hate white men from the media. Get over it already guys. I very much aggresively hit on black women I am attracted to. yes, prepostion.
Also why when you type in interracial dating in a search engine you only get one thing!!! Give me break. Yes, black men, I want your women and I will get my ebony princess !!!! hunter
LikeLike
I just found this wesite a day ago, and discovered this interesting conversation! I am a BW in my late 40’s and married for almost 5 years to a BM. However, in my early thirties, I was seriously in love with a special WM in his mid twenties.
We met at work. Although I am much older now. The friendship that kindled between us still haunts me. We were very much attracted to each other, had many things in common, and just felt like kindred spirits. I do believe though, the pressure of society, and what his friends, family would think about us caused him to be unable to let our relationship progress as far as I would have liked. For a long time I was miserably disappointed that he could not be brave or courageous enough to follow his heart. But, over the years I made peace with what happened and if I saw him again today would harbor no bad feelings toward him. I’ve yet to meet another man that made me feel the way that he did.
Shameful to admit that not even my husband and I have the chemistry that my white friend and I did. For all of you WM who stumble across this website and are afraid to follow your heart with a BW or any woman of color, take it from a wise woman, true love is hard to find and you never know what package that love is going to come in. Be open .
Free your mind and heart! From Mikki- reminiscing about past
LikeLike
hunter says,
Good point, whomever said, about white guys being timid around black girl’s. This is true. But can you blame tham, the average liberal “white guilt” white dude lives in terror of offending you and gets nervous. They are pretty much indoctrinated that all black women hate white men from the media. Get over it already guys. I very much aggresively hit on black women I am attracted to. yes, prepostion.
laromana says,
hunter,
Thanks for trying to explain why ANTI-BW cowardice is a problem for SOME WM in America. BW are/have ALWAYS been the MOST LIED ABOUT WOMEN in America.
Also, like women of ALL races there are some BW who are attracted to WM and some BW who aren’t. Since BW are NORMAL, HUMAN WOMEN (and not ALIENS), they can be approached in a NORMAL way like women of ANY race (by men of ANY RACE).
LikeLike
To Mikki
Wow Mikki that was very deep, it is a shame more people can’t feel that way.
LikeLike
Mikki:
That was so touching, am sorry you lost what sounds like your soulmate, but your husband I’m sure loves you and you him, that’s why you’re married 🙂
LikeLike
Mikki, 28 years ago as a young WM i married my soul-mate a BF. Our life circumstances were very different (upper middle class for me, a father who climbed the corporate ladder; working class for her with a distant father). We’re still together, and over this time we’ve traveled most of the country and bits of the world and never had a serious problem. Two children began arriving after 16 years of marriage and here we are in our early 50s with beautiful 9- and 12 year old sons. We currently live in a rural area in the upper plains region because of my work (currently working as a college dean, previous work as a professor took us to the south and midwest ohio valley), and our household has no unique problems whatsoever in our location except the lack of easily-reached hair salons for my wife…
In the beginning family resistance was light but interestingly enough came from the two mothers. I simply told my mother that we were married, if she couldn’t accept my bride she just wouldn’t see me anymore. I told my wife’s mother that she didn’t need to worry and to get over it. Interestingly enough each of our fathers were supportive. We were both graduate students at the time.
After 28 years of this life I have come to believe that educational attainment and type of work are strongly influential in the area of societal acceptance. In other words I believe that if I didn’t hold two terminal degrees and a ‘respectful’ position in society and if my wife didn’t hold a masters degree while choosing to be a stay-at-home-mom the reactions of the people we interact with would be different.
Just a few comments from a white boy who for whatever reason took a different direction than the kid you wrote about. His loss, I believe, and it’s crass to say but maybe he just didn’t have the necessary maturity or conviction necessary in order to follow his heart. Be happy, it’s a state of mind that you are in control of.
Kiernan820
LikeLike
Mikki and Kiernan, thanks for sharing parts of your lives
Im not sure what you mean about education, Kiernan, I dropped out of one year of college and it hasnt affected me and my being married in an interracial relationship.
Maybe I just dont understand your point.
LikeLike
B.R., I was primarily referring to the workplace and workplace relationships because in our lives this is also usually where our friendships begin. My personal opinion was the point, that I believe the nature of our work (and my work, since the time that my wife became a stay-at-home-mom) has contributed to the lack of social problems we can report as an interracial couple over the last 28 years of marriage. That’s all, nothing else implied.
Kiernan820
LikeLike
Pamela, I seriously hope you weren’t expecting any empathy with that post.
LikeLike
ok Kiernan, I understand you now.
LikeLike
Enjoyed reading the posts, and point well taken. Believe me I feel very blessed to have met and married my husband, and Kiernan820 congratulations on 28 years of marriage to your BW. I felt I had to make a point because my previous relationship with a WM impacted me
greatly to the extent that my making “peace” with the outcome caused me to become an even more tolerant and loving person which in turn has attracted many
good and loving people into my life, including my husband.
As black women we have to turn inward and love ourselves regardless of what a man of any race thinks about us or chooses not to do for or with us. When we take care of our mental health, our bodies and our spirit, love is attracted to us no matter what the odds are. I could wax poetically about some spiritual truths that I feel I learned from the whole experience but that may be for another day and another blog! Peace and blessings-Mikki
LikeLike
Interesting, but not so. You should look further.
LikeLike
I’m a light skinned female that has had long hair, short hair, a big butt, then a little but,t then a big butt again. I can say dating I’ve dated alot of different races. All I have to say is that it doesn’t matter the color of your skin and the texture of your hair. LOVE IS LOVE! I had simply Googled black hairstyles . . .trying to get some ideas and I came across this. LOVE IS LOVE! God is love and see’s no color. So why does it matter in the first place? If someone is happy with some one. let it be their business. . .it’s okay. I feel people who are busy over analyzing someone elses relationship are angry and hateful. It must suck to be that way. You yourselves can be happy also.
LikeLike
Pamela wrote: “I don’t even get the decency of being hit with the stereotypes of the American Indian woman…No, me, I’m getting hit with being treated like a race I”m NOT and having to deal with that everywhere I go. White men don’t not want “Pocahantas,” I’m finding. They just think I’m NOT an American Indian and rather “black” and THAT’s what they don’t want. Mistaken racial identity is what makes my life suck.”
Pamela, seriously? I’m not questioning your cultural ties to Choctaw Indians but you may be in denial about your admixture. Many blacks intermarried into certain tribes, and if you are CONSTANTLY said to look black, you probably have the genes. Complexion has little to do with you looking “black”. It must be facial structure, nose, lips. I’ve seen East Indians/Mexicans with complexions that are as deep as chocolate, but there’s no mistaking them for anything other than their ethnic background. There’s nothing like getting a DNA test to help determine one’s ancestry (at least partial). Good luck.
LikeLike
Patrick wrote: Let’s play- “Entitlement”: a caucasian girl of your age, scores higher on a College entrance exam than you. If you get accepted over her, doesn’t that confirm affirmative action as a “Black privilege.”
Patrick: Tit for tat “entitlement” arguments are null and void between the white and black American communities. So-called “Black American privileges” pale in ANY comparison to institutionallized “white privilege” enjoyed generationally by a majority for centuries. By the way, said accepted Black applicants (usually < 8% of the 80% sea of white applicants accepted at most universities) would have to earn passing grades in order to STAY in school. Maybe it's me, but it seems like a BETTER DEAL to be rejected by one university (with plenty others to choose) than passed over/rejected by society as a whole.
LikeLike
As for what white men seem to like in BW, I’m definitely in agreement with those that say WEIGHT/size counts in attraction. In 90% of the BW/WM here in the mid Atlantic, the BWs are of all complexions but almost all are under size 8 (one’s face can be downright homely, in fact). Equally important: she usually isn’t aggressive in personality AND assimilates/finds comfort with “middle class white America” (from vocal inflection/timbre to interests). I see more plain-jane “granola-looking” BWs dating WMs than the polished and perfect “Gabrielle Union” types.
LikeLike
It would be nice if it was real so i could get the CEO job and make millions a year.
But are you anything close to qualified?
LikeLike
To Thad – great point. Got to have the qualifications…
FOR EXAMPLE:
Uh, I worked under a black CEO, (way way under – lol) but I guarantee nobody handed him the position. He had a strong work ethic. (not to mention a Female BW that had the title Vice President. By the way, her husband was a board member on a regional bank in St. Louis -and a Black Male.)
All of these individuals were highly educated with a lot of work experience. The key is they worked for it. It was not handed to them.
Education is the key, and affirmative action is an aid to help get there.
LikeLike
Will you people get over yourselves? There is absolutely no way to determine “what type of Black woman a White man will like.” People like what they like when they like it.
I can tell you from living in the interracial capital of the world – Los Angeles, that White men date whatever the hell Black woman that they choose and that does not always include your standard Black beauty queen. Different people have different ideas of beauty and people like people for different reasons.
Why is it that Black people continuously marginalize and compartmentalize themselves? I think its ridiculous and shameful.
LikeLike
BTW, that last BW WM couple I saw was just the other day and I must say, Momma was pretty darn hefty and was far from what people call “beauty.” Do you think that White husband gave a damn? Hell no, he seemed to love her just the same and he did not seem to care what anyone else thought.
LikeLike
MoniQTee: I think many here are speaking in generalizations…there are always exceptions. However, there are stats to back up a pattern in WM preferences in dating BW.
I did find it funny that you yourself made a generalization in stating, “Why is it that Black people continuously marginalize and compartmentalize themselves?”
LikeLike
I thought I wasn’t going to agree but I do. White men generally date the kind of black girl I am looking for, dark-skin, tall, slim, with a natural style, and mainstream socialized. It upsets me, too. I feel like they have load of girls to pick from, but, considering the type I am looking for, I have very few. Also, for blk men, skin clor does not seem to matter at all anymore, and thick is also going out of style, especially for the lesser sterotypical blk guys.
LikeLike
I’m a white male living in NYC and I am attracted to most Black Women. What kind of straight man wouldn’t want to date Toccara Jones? She is beautiful and curvy.
I also like models like Buffie the Body. Also, I think that Alicia Keys and Halle Berry are fine.
I have dated dark skinned black women and light skinned. Who really cares as long as you like or love the person.
This is 2010, it is sad that people are so focused on race when we are all part of one race (the human race).
LikeLike
I forgot to say that I saw an interracial couple today with a little girl. The man was caucasian and the woman was asian, so their baby was biracial. She seemed like a happy little girl who has two parents who love her, what more can a child ask for. Some people need to stop being racist.
LikeLike
BklynBryan: I respect some of your points. However, I chuckled at your comment: “If ‘white’ people were so racist, our president would be John McCain and not Obama”.
While some whites voted for Obama, the majority of whites DID NOT vote for Obama. Factoid: McCain beat Obama among white voters by a huge 12-point margin. Thus, Obama won because the minority vote put him over the top.
Needless to say, the fact that “some” whites looked beyond melanin is great. However, let’s not get ahead of ourselves and think this country is post-racial.
LikeLike
Uhm, this might be an odd question, but did the majority of whites even vote?
LikeLike
Saying and/or thinking that the minority vote put Obama over the top is ridiculous.
LikeLike
Angela, Celina is absolutely correct. Here are the exit polls from the last presidential election:
http://elections.nytimes.com/2008/results/president/exit-polls.html
But three years ago I would never have believed that 43% of white voters would vote for a black presidential candidate.
LikeLike
Thanks Kiernan820. Angela: I didn’t create/poll the stats. There’s a big world of information out here…you should read more. Nonetheless, in the future, I’ll give reference so my comments aren’t considered “ridiculous”.
Here’s more: http://www.slate.com/id/2204251/
LikeLike
To Celina
Whites are the majority, even though a minority of white voters voted for Obama, wouldn’t that mean that more white people voted for Obama than minorities? Just from population alone I would say Obama had more white voters than minorities. I don’t now the exact numbers but how would the minority vote put him anymore over the top than the white vote?
LikeLike
Celina, that article is interesting, but it seems to contradict the view that those whites not voting for Obama didn’t do so because he was black. Look here…
That strikes me as a hidden-in-plain-sight phenomenon that warrants greater attention. Yet surprisingly little coverage has bothered to note Obama’s white-vote deficit. A rare exception was a Nov. 2 New York Times article by John Harwood (“Level of White Support for Obama a Surprise”), which quite appropriately predicted that Obama would fail to win a majority of white votes before moving on to the more hopeful news that Obama had made greater inroads among whites than most recent Democratic predecessors. The sad reality is that no Democratic candidate for president since Lyndon Johnson has won a majority of white votes (and even he lost 1964’s white Southern vote to Barry Goldwater).
Sure, it’s about race – at least partially – in a more general sense because the south votesa nti-democrat partially due to race. But it also votes anti democrat due to homophobia, abortion and a series of other red/blue issues. The fact of the matter is that Obama made greater strides into this white vote than any democrat before him.
LikeLike
Not quite. In some states, particularly in the South, Obama did way worse among whites than did Kerry. Since Obama and Kerry are both liberal Democrats it had little to do with their politics, with stuff like abortion, and almost everything to do with Obama’s race. In some counties in the South the Republican/Democrat split was very close to the black/white split.
LikeLike
Abagond: Exactly. The southern white vote was 31% for Obama. Also, of the white vote that Obama won, most were under age 45.
Thaddeus: I’ll never doubt the progress that Obama made with white voters in this country (and also as a democrat). However, I was responding to BlkynBrian’s comment that “If ‘white’ people were so racist, our president would be John McCain and not Obama”. Although I don’t think that people who didn’t vote for Obama were necessarily racist, I wanted to point out that had the election been based solely on whites, racist or nonracist, Obama would not have won.
LikeLike
Ó Dochartaigh wrote: Whites are the majority, wouldn’t that mean that more white people voted for Obama than minorities? Just from population alone I would say Obama had more white voters than minorities. I don’t now the exact numbers but how would the minority vote put him anymore over the top than the white vote?
In sheer numbers, of course, more whites voted for Obama than minorities (minorities make up approx. 33% of the country). BUT more whites voted for McCain than whites that voted for Obama. Obama needed and relied on minorities to win.
LikeLike
Oh, and for the record: Just because someone voted for Obama does not mean that said voter doesn’t struggle with racial issues. People are forgetting that Obama’s mom was white (and this fact was sold hard and frequently) as well as a nonthreatening FOREIGN black father (sans slave heritage). I think these factors made him easier to swallow for many white voters. Sadly, some of the white voters that gave Obama the thumbs up left out the voting booth thinking that his/her work was done. It’s going to take more than voting for a President of African heritage to change the dynamic in this country. It’s going to take work for blacks and whites. Sidebar: That’s why I’m so supportive of loving interracial relationships.
LikeLike
To Celina
“Obama needed and relied on minorities to win.”
I think Democrats in general rely on the minority vote though. Otherwise I don’t think they would ever win, regardless of what race they are. I don’t know exactly what point BklynBryan was trying to make, but I think Obamas win at least shows that close to half of the white population are probably not that racist.
LikeLike
Ó Dochartaigh: Hmmmm…I still think America is racist (and not just whites). Also, it seems that white America is more open to someone like Obama. However, had Obama been of African American parentage and resembled Wesley Snipes (even with the identical values, charisma, and education background) I HIGHLY doubt he would’ve won.
LikeLike
To Celina
I don’t know your probably right. Hopefully America one day is open minded enough to have a black lesbian who is an atheist for president. LOL That would great.
LikeLike
I am a black woman of ethiopian background. I am seeing a white guy … I am small but have a big behind, my skin tone is not very light, and my hair is curly. He is very,very happy about everything look-wise. I am happy about his looks, too. The uncomfortable thing about relationship is not race or looks … it is this: He is a handy man and I am an engineer.
LikeLike
Whites 43% Obama 55% McCain
Black 95% Obama 5% McCain
Who are the real RACISTS?
95% of “Black” people voted for Obama regardless of his beliefs or policies.
Very sad that this day in age people would vote for a man because they think that he is “black” like them. Marthin Luther King Jr. is rolling in his grave because you judged Obama on his skin color and not by the content of his character.
Obama is 50-50. Some people want to say that Obama is “black”. Hey it is a free country, but the man is half black and half white. I have nothing against Obama, but I don’t like his politics.
LikeLike
I don’t think that America will ever be “post-racial” because there are too many people who want to keep the myth of “race” alive.
What is the theme of this whole blog? The social construct of “race”. We are all a part of the human race. There are people that DON’T WANT everyone to be considered the same or equal.
This is 2010 and some people want to live in the past.
Some people don’t want the playing field to be considered level.
They want to feel opressed somehow like the students at UCSD.
It is sad that the black students at UCSD want to go backwards and segregate the university. Why did we have Brown v. Board of Ed then?
Certain people want to keep racism alive so they manufacture it like the “Compton Cookout” and “the noose” at UCSD that were both done by minorities.
If everyone was considered equal, then race hustlers like Al Sharpton would be out of a job.
LikeLike
BklynBryan says –
Very sad that this day in age people would vote for a man because they think that he is “black” like them. Marthin Luther King Jr. is rolling in his grave because you judged Obama on his skin color and not by the content of his character.
I voted for Barack Obama because I agree with his politics. He is a smart compassionate, man who appears to love his wife and a great father. It did not hurt that he is biracial and that his wife is a black woman like me, but if he was Clarence Thomas or Jessie Jackson, I would not have voted for him. I voted for Barack Obama because I knew he would do exactly what he is doing now, fighting for change.
LikeLike
Obamas not fighting for change, he is continuing most of Bushes policies, the patriot act, suspension of habeas corpus, useless wars in the middle east and he is bed with the lobbyist on capitol hill. Now he is going to try the Guantanamo detainees in military courts instead of civilian courts because of pressure from Republicans. I do think it is funny though when people say he is a Socialist; he is not much different than Bush.
LikeLike
Responding to Ó Dochartaigh –
Obamas not fighting for change, he is continuing most of Bushes policies, the patriot act, suspension of habeas corpus, useless wars in the middle east and he is bed with the lobbyist on capitol hill. Now he is going to try the Guantanamo detainees in military courts instead of civilian courts because of pressure from Republicans. I do think it is funny though when people say he is a Socialist; he is not much different than Bush
I disagree. President Obama has been fighting for change since he took office and has meet oposition at every corner he turns from Republicans who are trying their best to make him look bad. I am not fooled, change is hard and I know how the majority can make your efforts to improve appear meaningless. I find it insulting that you would compare him to George Bush. President Bush should have been 1/4th of the president that Obama has been in office for the last year and a half to his eight years. I respect him for all the pressure he must endure. This country is in a hot mess and was this way before he took office. The war and our economic conditions are not going to be solved in a year and a half. He is a man, not God and it is my opinion that there are many that waiting for him to fail, even if it means this country will go down with it. It is politics and racism combined for the disrespect and hatred that has been thrown at this president and his wife and children. I do not believe that the help that has been extended to the poor would have bee in place if the President was Bush, Palin, MCain or even Clinton (maybe President Carter).
Another thing, I am old enough to remember President Reagan, and I remember how racist (apartheid) he was , he was sleep the majority of time and in my opinion, a horrible president. But now, he is hailed as some great president. This is the lie they will tell my grandchildren in school and probably paint President Obama as a socialist failure. Racism, pure and simple.
LikeLike
BklynBryan wrote: “Who are the real RACISTS? 95% of “Black” people voted for Obama regardless of his beliefs or policies.
BB, that’s really inflammatory and insulting to the intelligence of Blacks individually and as a group. For the “few” decades that Blacks have had the right to vote in this country, African Americans have shown NO PROBLEM in voting for white candidates in ALL parties. In 1996, 84% of African Americans voted for Bill Clinton. I guess that shows Blacks are really “racist”, huh? Besides, do you really think that if Obama had been the GOP candidate, he would’ve got 95% of the black vote? C’mon now.
Regarding the use of “racist”, some Blacks can be bigoted, hateful, hurtful, and small-minded, and I HATE racism in ANY form. However, I’d think again before I began throwing around the word “racist” as if black bigotry is equivalent to the historical, institutional, and freedom-denying legacies of white racism. Calling a black person a “racist” just doesn’t hold the same weight.
LikeLike
G ball
He could close down Guantanamo, bring the troops home, abolish the patriot act, reinstate Habeas Corpus, and he could do all this without the vote of senate republicans yet he does not.
LikeLike
BklynBryan: No one here can deny that “race” is a social construct.
As far as “racial opportunists” are concerned, Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton exploiting “racial injustice issues” for a goal of integration/justice is a BIT different than Buchanan, Limbaugh, Savage, Duke, Metzger, Beck, Coulter, etc (gosh, I could go on) who profit BIG $$$ by exploiting racial animosity/fears in hopes of promoting white majority superiority/separatism.
LikeLike
G-Ball: You have made some EXCELLENT points.
Ó Dochartaigh: I work a detail in the U.S. Senate (peon in the editorial office for Appropriations) and if you only knew ALL the red tape and time that “CHANGE” requires, you’d know that Obama can’t do healthcare reform, JOBS, economy, Guantanamo, Iraq troops, etc. in 1 or 2 years. I think he’d hit his stride in a 2nd term if he’s lucky to get it. If Obama had the egomaniac dictator-like mindset without regard for consequences of rash decisions (see Iraq thanks to Bush-Cheney), many HORRID mistakes would be made, and I HIGHLY doubt that America would ever forgive Obama if he were to have half the cowboy aggression that Bush/Cheney had.
LikeLike
Well I wish we had some real change in this country rather than just some watered down heath care reform, and more of the same. People need to realize that Obama, like most politicians is not going to do much.
LikeLike
Ó Dochartaigh says –
He could close down Guantanamo, bring the troops home, abolish the patriot act, reinstate Habeas Corpus, and he could do all this without the vote of senate republicans yet he does not.
Hey, this is my last time I will defend President Obama because I truly believe that you (like many caucasion Americans) have made up your mind to dislike him even if he had discovered the cure for cancer and AIDS in the same day. He CANNOT solve all American issues in a year and a half. He is a man, not GOD. Never has a president been under so much scrutiny and shown such disrespect. I believe you should check yourself and your true reasons for your dislike of the president.
LikeLike
Ó Dochartaigh: The far right rants/lies, townhall meetings, and Tea Party demonstrations should be proof of the massive resistance to change and progress in this country.I t would be hellishly hard for anyone who became President, no matter how “progressive”.
LikeLike
To Celina
I Agree
LikeLike
All credit to you Celina and G Ball for trying, these people just don’t/won’t get it.
LikeLike
I think people forget that the black vote was not always solidly behind Obama. From what I remember it was only after the race-baiting by her and her husband that it swung solidly behind him.
LikeLike
Racism is racism. This is 2010. There are laws against being racist.
I guess that Celina has never heard about the incident in Harlem.
http://hillbuzz.org/2008/10/14/howard-stern-exposes-black-racists-in-harlem/
63% of people without a highschool diploma voted for Obama … enough said.
Among people with a higher education, it was a closer contest.
I know a lot of people who voted for Obama just because he is considered black. One of my own family members voted for him only because he is black.
We as a nation need to move forward. There is no more institutional racism. I’m not saying that racism doesn’t exist, but minorities are getting better treatment today then in the past.
There are still racist people in the world today, but like I said there are laws against it (unlike the past when it was legal).
As far as institutionalized racism, okay. There was a lot of institutionalized racism against the Duke LaCrosse players.
People said what they wanted about Bush. As far as Obama … he was on vaction in Hawaii or whereever on some island when the Christmas bomber tried to attack America. I’ll never forgot the picture in the newspaper of Obama eating an Italian ice … what a joke. A real president would have immediately returned to Washington to address the nation. Obama is SOFT. He acted like the Fort Hood psycho wasn’t a terrorist.
Obama supports Abortion … Ask yourself how many black babies are being aborted?
http://www.toomanyaborted.com/?page_id=2
If blacks really cared about themselves, they wouldn’t have voted for a man who supports black infanticide!!!
LikeLike
BklynBryan:
If you were not so pathetic, you would be hilarious. You may be a little young, but have you ever watched representatives of yourself on an old 1970s show called All in the Family?
If I was white, I would be ashamed that another white person still thinks this way.
LikeLike
To BklynBryan:
Racism is racism. This is 2010. There are laws against being racist.
No.. there are no laws against being a racist. There are laws against certain racist actions but generally there are other laws that apply in those circumstances as well.
LikeLike
BklynBryan:
Please tell me that was a joke.
LikeLike
BklynBryan: Are you kidding me? You refer me to the buffoonery of Howard Stern & his clown staff as reputable journalism? How old are you?
Anyone can poll selectively, edit out the people who disprove his/her agenda, and present a biased “poll” video. ESPECIALLY a joke show like Stern. And dearheart, four blacks from Harlem arent’ the puse of the entire U.S. African American population.
You wrote: “63% of people without a high school diploma voted for Obama”
Oops, you forgot:
58% of people with Master’s degrees or greater voted for Obama. Only 40% of MDs voted for McCain.
BB, please stop.
LikeLike
BklynB: Willful ignorance should be felonious.
“Institutional racism is over”? Dude, that’s nuts!!! Let’s go over just a few basics to jog your memory:
1. The criminal system. The more melanin, the more time, even for the same crime. Need I say more?
2. Predatory subprime loans and bias in the mortgage industry against minorities. Whites with credit-worthiness equal to or worse than Blacks and Latinos received better interest rates. It’s documented.
About abortion, that’s a woman private choice, and no one needs to hear your judgment. If men were the ones who got pregnant, abortion would not only be legal, it’d be a sacrament.
LikeLike
@ Abyseenya: “I am a black woman of ethiopian background. I am seeing a white guy … The uncomfortable thing about relationship is not race or looks … it is this: He is a handy man and I am an engineer.”
If the relationship continues to develop I think the disparity in your incomes may become less of an issue. If the disparity in comes becomes a focus in the relationship, then the relationship may not continue to develop?
LikeLike
All I’m saying is … let Obama pass his Obamacare bill and let America have public funded abortion … it will make a lot of racist people happy.
If publicly funded a abortion is approved, then it is no longer a private issue. It will become a PUBLIC issue. Why should American’s be forced to pay for something that they don’t agree with? It is unconstitional.
Okay, so Howard Stern is no good whatever, but it is okay for someone to reference Michael Moore?
It is no joke that a lot of African Americans voted for Obama only because he was considered “black”.
Steve Harvey even said it on TV.
Oh no! You had to mention the prison system!!!
Criminals are criminals … you do the crime … YOU DO THE TIME!!!
G-Balls? Who are you?
“All in the Family” what the …
Representations of myself? Who are you to judge me? I was born in 1983, thank god that I have never ever seen that show and I don’t care about it.
G-Ball says “If I was white, I would be ashamed that another white person still thinks this way.”
I am not white!!! Stop forcing your “race” beliefs on me.
I am an American. It is very pathetic and sad that all you people fester and linger on the concept of “race”. I feel bad for all you people who live your lives according to “race”.
If you want something bad enough … then you go out and get it regardless. Excuses are for losers!!!
There is a thing called self-reliance you know.
LikeLike
“I am not white!!! Stop forcing your “race” beliefs on me.”
Oh, you’re one of the purple people?
“I am an American. It is very pathetic and sad that all you people fester and linger on the concept of “race”. I feel bad for all you people who live your lives according to “race”.”
Put it to music and play it on the violin! I am sorry to disiilusion you, but most black people do not sit at home in a broken down shack or tenament building ruminating and obsessing on race. Many of us do have jobs and fruitful lives. This topic is about an aspect of race. It is not about fashion, science, computers etc. Therefore racial issues are being discussed, capheche?
“If you want something bad enough … then you go out and get it regardless.”
I want millions of dollars. Should I go out and rob a bank or buy a lottery ticket on the almost non-exeistant chance that I may win? Your statement is absurd hence the absurd response.
“Excuses are for losers!!!”
Count yourself amongst them!
“There is a thing called self-reliance you know.”
Tell that to the millions walking the dole line! Also, the millions who work two or three jobs to make ends meet. I guess they are losers as well?
LikeLike
BklynBryan – so you are not white, whatever color you are, your statements are still pretty pathetic.
Who do you think you are to judge the people that voted for and still support President Obama! What, just because Steve Harvey said something, that makes it a fact! Get real. I know why I voted for Barack Obama and admittedly, I am proud that he has African heritage, but that is by far one of the least reasons why I voted for him. How about him being more than qualified for the job, honesty, integrity, a willingness to listen and doing just like he doing right now — fighting for health care. Healthcare is watered down because of the opposition he has faced trying to get something, ANYTHING in place.
Oh yeah, SO WHAT if I voted for him because he is black, that is my right too as it has been right of all the the voters who voted for 43 WHITE presidents. By the way, I have an MBA and now working on a second masters degree, I also work a full-time job so your assumption that Obama supporters are all uneducated, poor, racist and easily lead is not true either. Again, if Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, or a number ol other blacks had ran for president, I would not have voted for them. My first choice was Hilary until she started playing the “race card” and he by far ran a much better election — President Obama WON my vote.
And who cares if you were born in 1983, have you heard of reruns. You have never watched a rerun OR A SHOW BEFORE 1983? Is that one of the reasons why you are so biased with your opinion? Watch the rerun one day, and see if you do not see yourself.
LikeLike
HAHAHA LOL ROTFL @ Obama being more qualified to be the president of the U.S.A.
What prior experience did he have? He was a community activist and a brief senator.
It is funny how some people think that Obama is a savior or something. He is only a man. Excuse me, Obama is merely a puppet for the democrats.
You couldn’t pay me to watch some old TV show like the one that you said.
I would rather read a book instead on re-runs.
Wow! You are working on your second master’s degree … do you want a cookie?
There are people out there who have PhD’s
No matter how smart you think you are … there is always someone smarter than you
(let the record show that I never claimed to be a super genius or something).
I’m glad that you mentioned Hilary. It is March (women’s history month).
Let’s talk about the sexism that stopped Hillary. Or do people only talk about racism in here?
LikeLike
That’s ok, this is my last comment to you. You can argue amongest yourself from here on out.
Your last post made no sense whatsoever and you missed the entire point of my even mentioning my academic status. You would rather read a book, yeah right. Even then, you would have to use some of your brain cells to read with an open mind and a willigness to learn — but I do not believe you are capable of this. Of course you will not watch the program because the truth hurts.
Again, pathetic and ignorant.
LikeLike
I didn’t even read your last post.
I will be the bigger man and walk away.
There are more important issues in life
than the social construct on “race” and
Barack Obama’s Obama care BS.
Unlike you and Abagone … I will wake
up tomorrow and “race” will not be the first thing on my mind.
I will look into the mirror and I won’t hate myself or doubt myself.
Love who you are. It $ucks to have an inferiority complex.
LikeLike
“Wow! You are working on your second master’s degree … do you want a cookie?”
What are you doing? Sitting around drinking liquer or smoking a spliff perhaps? It shows in your responses.
“I would rather read a book instead on re-runs.”
You’d never know it!
“let the record show that I never claimed to be a super genius or something”
That’s painfully evident!
“Let’s talk about the sexism that stopped Hillary. Or do people only talk about racism in here?”
This particular topic isn’t about Hillary Clinton or sexism genius.
LikeLike
G-Ball and Herneith: Great posts.
BklynBryan: You should go on the Improv…that’s some funny stuff. At 26/27 years of age, you have so much to learn. One day you’ll look back at all your ego, self-righteousness, bitterness, and judgment and feel truly, truly ashamed. Until then, maybe you should take some time out for deep self reflection…sit by the sea in silence, notice the bugs in the grass, and stay away from this website.
LikeLike
By the way, I didn’t know you could read reruns.
LikeLike
“Unlike you and Abagone … I will wake
up tomorrow and “race” will not be the first thing on my mind.”
No, you will wake up with one m@#$%^&*($ hangover!
“There are more important issues in life”
Yes, like where you will get your next case of beer , 40 ouncer or spliff(s).
“I will look into the mirror and I won’t hate myself or doubt myself.”
Yes, and your bloodshot eyes will be gazing back at you. that is if you can open them.
“Love who you are. It $ucks to have an inferiority complex.”
No it sucks to have a drinking and spliff smoking problem. What’s even worse, is getting drunk and stoned, coming to a blog and regaling people with your inanities. It’s enough to turn anyone to drink!
LikeLike
Herneith: LMAO @ “Yes, and your bloodshot eyes will be gazing back at you. that is if you can open them.”
…still cracking up over here.
LikeLike
@Celine:
I prefer to respond to posters such as this with ridicule as they do-not warrant a serious response. he writes as if he is getting progressively drunker/stoned, hahahaha!!!
LikeLike
But hey, I like this…
Why should American’s be forced to pay for something that they don’t agree with? It is unconstitional.
So that means that Americans who don’t agree with overseas wars shouldn’t have to pay for them, is that it?
LikeLike
LMAO @ Herneith, good one!
LikeLike
No, it means they are commie bastids!
LikeLike
Hmn… wow does this topic ever sway alot! political candidates to smoking a spliff. Well various people vote for various candidates for a lot of different reasons, Some still go to the poles with a coin to flip for crying out loud! Some vote for a hope of change some vote for a candidate that will do the seemingly least amount of dammage. Seems whatever country you look at it seems to be a popularity race mixed with some hidden financial gains, the list goes on. As for the origional title of this long post I think the racial hang ups are different around the world but think of this… if no one had any distinctual accents and all spoke the same language, we were all blind so we could not see physical differences, how different the whole world would be!!! personally I enjoy people of different races as this brings contrast in my life ( I enjoy learning about other cultures) and my surroundings so in that regard I am glad I am not blind! About the only single thing I have any sort of predjudice is a close minded lazy person as that to me is a tax on any society and I think they being a heavy tax has caused alot of close mindedness which seems to spread like a cancer through any society. That type of person is found through out the world in every culture and ethnic background unfortunately. you can have a crowd of people, thousands! but it is the few assholes that stick out like a sore thumb and capture all of our focus, the camera person for the news crews zoom in on the bad apple and we watching forget the thousands standing behind that are nothing like the person the camera zoomed in on right. It is so easy to focus on the negative or what we make negative but it is very hard to take note of the whole picture and see the thousands and what they represent, how they live, etc etc.
As for the origional topic I think opposites attract just like unlike magnets wether it be lifestile, or colour or nationality, or cast or any other difference 2 people may have it seems to be a difference becomes an attraction. If something is different it seems to hold our attention, catch out eye so to speak. Perhaps on a subconcious level we look at a possible mate the same way, perhaps even envious of the other persons traits, abilities, strengths etc. The deeper you look the more variables there are to ponder. I think as the world gets smaller slowly but surely people are breaking out of taboo moulds set by previous generations is one factor. Sad part is the world is corrupt and dark with greed, happy part is there is alot of good in the thousands that make up the general population. Question is which do we want to feed our minds and souls on? Or in lamens terms, it is easy to spot dog shit in the snow but do we loose site of the white snow? or do we get out the poop scoop and remove the crap so we can once again enjoy the view?
I could go on but I think I have undoubtedly typed enough for some to get my “drift” and enough for others to twist and pick apart what my views are.
Good night.
LikeLike
I should clarify the dog shit in the snow is the referance my employer makes to lazy workers that ruin his view on his company and has no particular colour or ethnic reference. Perhaps his other phrase of apples in a barrel would of been more appropriate as there are people that focus on colour references directly to race.
LikeLike
Good night.
LikeLike
All I have to say to you sisters is Tawana Brawley!
Yes, they want you all right and you’re just walking into their arms and giving up on the rest of us.
LikeLike
Im a dark skin woman who date a white male…during are “getting to know each other period” he stated he love dark skin women, not the Halle Barry type. It all depend on the male in general… We have a very strong relationship and love each other very much… I do think we focus to much on the race instead of the person in general… if he are she a good person or no?
My advice to black women…judge the person your dating not the ” white race in general”. If you do that you will always a negative idea of the white man in general.
I agree with getting rid of the slave mentality and the black man and white woman thing.. and focus on the fact that we are very beautiful women who should be open to date any one who is a good man , good to us, and good for us.
With any man black or white or what ever the race. ladies please make sure there interest are in. you the person.. not a “trial” sexual experince. You will run into these type of men.. regardless of race
LikeLike
Naiviv
Nice to hear your input.
LikeLike
do white men only date thin black women? that is what i am wondering. my friend likes white guys and i am not as open but they always end up asking me out instead of her.
LikeLike
Steph,
I think that white men date all sizes. It has to do with individual tastes.
LikeLike
i love this site. whenever i feel wired about being a black girl. i turn to this site and feel good about myself again.
I am a mixed race girl and i live in europe – switzerland. and this gives me I think a very special view on the matter.
In europe this whole conversation about light skinned and dark skinned is not an issue. it just does not exist.
Talking about mixed race couples. When you see mixed couples and the woman being thinner we have to consider that the better educated people are the more they excercise. Hence are skinnier. And being in a different social status the standards of beauty vary, so as I am going to university i think slim-not skinny- and trained looks good.
Furthermore what i find interesting is that black woman tend to have a different physique: a steeper more angled waistline
and in general no matter how well trained we are – thicker legs.
why this is important to me?well diffrent form needs diffrent wrapping. most asian woman do not fit in an hourglass dress
that needs long legs to pull off the look. So am I seeing ghosts or why doesn`t anybody talks about this. Being black -i am curvier-no matter my weight and i find it hard to look classy.
What also is a subject of consideration for myself is the fact, that the more multicultural a place is the more i am being appreciated, given compliments,being approached. It is like men need to learn to see me. it is like being beautiful in one place and almost invisible in the next. i am pretty normal in figure though neither thick nor thin given by the standard of the pictures of the website.
And of course it is true as beauty lies in the eye of the beholder. Like London and paris. I feel in other places i really have to settle back and dress calm.
These are the things going through my mind. And I would love some comments.
LikeLike
Im a blonde haired blue eyed white man and am in the early stages of a relationship with a black woman.
She is dark-skinned. She is also a bit thick…not chubby..but curvaceous… well put together. I am taller and thinner; she is shorter and wider. I find her facial features very attractive. Bright eyes, full lips, beautiful smile.
While I appreciate the beauty of a lighter skinned black women (e.g. halle berry) I’ve never had the same attraction as I have towards the darker-skinned black women.
I have always found black woman attractive. It depends on the person as a person, but all else being equal I would likely be a bit more attracted to a black woman than a white one.
Back to the woman I am talking about. She is intelligent, funny, witty, educated..if she wasn’t these I would not find her as attractive.
She also attends a 99% exclusively “black” church every week. Her social network is primarily black. This is something that can present some challenges. I told her I am comfortable with everything as long as she feels comfortable with it. These are things she does alone…when I joked about going to church with her she was like “umm…no.”
Still, we always feel confident, comfortable, and self-assured around each other.
It is a bigger deal to her friends that she is with a white guy than it is to mine that I am with a black woman.
These are my thoughts/experiences.
LikeLike
Hi, nice post
ive been following alot of the comments, and i think that it may be hard to say what kind of black women white men like just as well as it would be difficult to pin down the type of white women that white men like.
I do agree that the negative image of black women in general that has been created in the racist paradigm contributes to how many white men may see us. i would also like to add that, at the end of the day, we don’t care. I know this site was made to address just this issue, but some posters seem to still ask the question ” why do black women care” it’s not that they do, we are just discussing this intriguing social phenomenon here.
@ Azrayzel
not sure if you still post or come here, i understand that you had this interest in black women and you have no idea how to approach them, you spent more time jumping to conclusions and apologizing ffor them than I think you did just taking in what many of the women here were trying to tell you. I must say, you don’t seem suited for IR dating, one comment you made ” you will NEVER approach a black woman” given the history and tension between blacks and whites, a black woman has to make it known that she’s interested because with the slavery, rapes, beatings and racism, it just isnt going to happen.
my my, well i can understand you being hesitant, and even assuming that she may not be interested. but how did you ever plan to date a sister without ever going up to one, we are women just like other women, and we should be approached like other women. we are not monolithic, if you are looking at me and seeing the weight of slavery, racism and 400 years of opression, by all means, you have NO business tryingn to date black women. You are obviously too concerned about the repurcussions of how you will be viewed and if/when society will condemn you. Your attraction may be sincere, but i can tell you don’t have the balls to date IR yet.
It is a big deal, but it isn’t, you know. not sure wher eyou live, but i lived in the deep south, now i live in NYC, i date a white guy, he approached me and started a conversation like he would with any other human female. He has the confidence ( women like confident men) to make it known that he was interested, that is required with most females. Some people are just reading too much into this, i know we have a long way to go as a society, but asking a black woman on a date should not be like climbing Mount Everest for you. You are just not ready and you don’t have the mindset, as i realize many people who are timidly “thinking” about dating IR do.
LikeLike
I’m a white male, and I like all kinds of black women. I never had the great fortune of dating any. I can easily go for a woman who looks like, say, Natalie Desselle or Regina King, as much as I could a Beyonce or Gabrielle Union, etc. Just like for a woman of any color, I like a sense of humor, intelligence, a love of life.
I think women of all sizes, shapes and colors have things to offer. Life is too short to limit yourself to a certain body type, hair style, or anything like that.
LikeLike
I just read this on a site:
http://roissy.wordpress.com/2007/10/31/interracial-loving/
This is a direct quote from the post on that site….
“The black women we walked by, on the other hand, had a much stronger reaction. Curious and aroused, they eye loved me like I was the filet mignon of manmeat. I think I could have given every one of them an open invitation to join me and my date later in the evening for a night of 50 on 1 group sex that would have qualified for the Gold Edition Penthouse Forum.”
…the arrogance of some wm truly astounds me…
LikeLike
i am fed up with this…
LikeLike
I was born in a middle class African family on the continent, and since I was young, I have been told by people in my family, classmates, workmates and now business partners, and even African men I have crushes on, that I am the kind of girl WM like. It baffles me to date, because BM will like me as a friend and keep using that line. WM hit on me all the time and so most of the people I have dated have been WM.
African from my socio-economic background will constantly put me in that pigeon hole and in response to the question why? they say “because you look exotic”!
I am 5’9″, very dark skinned, weigh 130 pounds and wear my hair short and natural. It would be nice to marry someone from my background, but it seems they have packaged me and locked me in a box.
I don’t think much about race when dating, after it is determined the prospect is not prejudiced, is well educated, a global citizen with exposure to various cultures and we share the same values and like each other.
Now I understand what “the kind of girl that WM would like” means… at least loosely.
That is what I googled when I stumbled upon your blog. Nice blog.
LikeLike
Bella, don’t worry yourself about Black people or Black men. Especially when it comes to your personal happiness. Enjoy that white meat girl!
LikeLike
As a white man of a certain background, (middle class and post graduate school educated), I can say that among my peer group of white men, it is most definitely education level and demeanor that count, rather than skin tone, hair style, body shape, etc. It is true though, in my experience, that many black women are uninterested in dating white men, for whatever reason. The black women in law school that were approachable, regardless of physical features, had no shortage of interested white (or other) suitors.
On a related note, I find natural hair on black women beautiful, and almost always preferable to the relaxed look. But then, I think a mop of curls on any women is sexy.
LikeLike
I’m am very confused as to what white men like. The wm that I see don’t go for the types of women on this list.
LikeLike
@islandgirl
“I’m am very confused as to what white men like. The wm that I see don’t go for the types of women on this list.”
Its confusing because WM, like other groups of men, are not monolithic. As far as I know the only WM that date BW dont like is big girls(more than a US 16).
Same goes with black men. I dont know what they like in non-black women but I know she will have a shapely(not necessarily fat or thick) body.
LikeLike
Y,
I think that is true. But mens taste in women confuse me in general. And I wish that someone would explain it. It seems that women that I think are pretty, go unnoticed by men.
But you are right, they are monolithic.
LikeLike
OK, islandgirl, here’s the short version:
Men like pu$$y.
Now, there are secondary likes, for sure and every man has a different set of those. But presuming that the guy’s heterosexual, pu$$y is the big thing.
I know very, very few straight men who have turned down sex from a woman, no matter WHAT the woman is like.
LikeLike
Yeah, that’s obvious based on their selection process. Do they normally go for women who seem easier to obtain?
I think that straight men turn down s*x with a woman. Don’t tell me that men are that non-selective.
LikeLike
Island Girl
Thad has it about right, if a woman is not hideous, and she is offering, and he is not married, sometimes even if he is, he will sleep with her. That is where the American terms butter face and paper bag come from, a lot of men will sleep with women if she has a nice body, “but her face” is not so attractive.
LikeLike
Men like pu$$y.
How come the men I date only want to hold my hand? Thad you are a cad!
LikeLike
Herneith,
You’re a gem!:)
LikeLike
some men like thick women some like thin, some like tall some like short, some like big boobs some like smaller, some like long legs some like long fingers, some like light skin some like dark, some like light skin with tan lines some like thin lips some like thick, some like easy women some like the more conservative, some like loud and crazy some like quiet and shy, the list goes on and on. A pussy is part of the equasion but as time goes on I learn to appreciate the mind a woman has not just the curves. I have dated some women that were smoking hot but as soon as they showed their low IQ or negative Attitude the hot body lost its shine. Being with a woman that has her wits is now much more sexually attractive to me now than when I was 20 and looking for curves. I would be much more happy over all if the woman is stable and has her wits about her than a curvacious woman that is not. However that said some men like the “Not so swift” woman that is curvacious, possibly because she may be easy to fool or perhaps he is intimidated by a smart woman, or perhaps a not so swift woman because in a codependant way it makes him feel needed because she is not as independent which makes him feel needed or usefull. Personally, like I say, I would go and have gone after women that were not necessairly “WOW ” material but they have a brain because I find them more secure, more sensual, and more realistic. Would you ladies prefer a man that was drop dead gorgeous but dumb as a bag of hammers? or someone say more average but has a brain, remembers your birthday and to put the toilet seat down, and can carry on a conversation with substance to it?
That said some women prefer the hot but dumb as a post guy because he is easy to control, other women would say they want someone they can talk to not have to coach all the time, someone that can read what you need or want and catches on to subtle things.
Bottom line: just as it is varried on your side for likes and dislikes so it is on this side of the gender fence. Another thing to think about is the fact that the “quiet ones” read the posts but never express themselves so their imput is not seen or read as to their likes and dislikes. Others are full of ego and paint everyone with the same brush because they are the center of their universe right so everyone must think like them too correct?!?! A pussy can be had by a man from the women for hire, so can a disease right? does not mean that every man will seek out a pussy for hire. Some do some dont.
To some men an easy woman is what they want because they only want that one thing, and stay that way for their life, others want more out of a woman.
LikeLike
As time goes bye our outer looks fade, bodies change so what you have on the inside of a person starts to count more. That is also why I date women that have a higher IQ with less emphasis on the physical aspects.
LikeLike
Herneith asks:
How come the men I date only want to hold my hand?
Try dating non-gay guys.
LikeLike
That is where the American terms butter face and paper bag come from…
Or, in Portuguese, “Raimunda, feia de cara mas boa de… papo.”
(Raimunda, an ugly face but a great… conversationalist.)
LikeLike
Try dating non-gay guys.
You may be on to something!
LikeLike
Being with a woman that has her wits is now much more sexually attractive to me now than when I was 20 and looking for curves.
Yeah, me too, Paul. I’m married to a woman with a PhD, ferchrisakes!
But let’s be real here, friend: absent marriage (I’m presuming) you’ll hit pretty much anything as long as it’s free and not obviously diseased.
A pussy can be had by a man from the women for hire, so can a disease right?
Wrong. You’re more likely to pick up a disease from a “nice” girl who gets too drunk at a bar than from a sex professional. The first woman thinks that her morals protect her from sTDs. The second woman knows how to use condoms.
To some men an easy woman is what they want because they only want that one thing, and stay that way for their life, others want more out of a woman.
Cooking and cleaning, for starters, if most men I’ve seen are any guide.
LikeLike
(Raimunda, an ugly face but a great… conversationalist.)
LOL 🙂
LikeLike
Thaddeus
“But let’s be real here, friend: absent marriage (I’m presuming) you’ll hit pretty much anything as long as it’s free and not obviously diseased. ” Absent marriage no, I may flirt with some women and measure any return response but I do not take anything offered and jump into something until I have learned more about that person. When I was in my 20’s I didnt worry as much but I have watched alot of people die around me for various reasons including one ex GF to aids, another one to Bone Cancer. Those 2 were about the same time frame and their families called me up, that was both hard and sobering!
No I am selective as I have seen friends with a more loose lifestyle end up with Aids and Hepatitus and watched their health dwindle away. So because of that I personally dont “hit” anything I have not done homework on because of this fact plus I dont want to be a wedge between someone and their GF or wife as I have seen some people walk into that situation unknowingly.
As for women on the streets I guess it depends on where the streets are. In the area I am in there are stats from the medical profession that I looked at and the closest city is quite high on how many street workers are being charged for spreading non treatable diseases. You have a good point about a streetworker having more knowledge about protection than the woman that got tipsy at the bar. It was a good point. I think when it comes to street women the ones that survive are the ones that know how to protect themselves unfortunately across Canada different cities seem to have varying amounts that are survivors and those that end up dying from horrible diseases. Perhaps I am more cautious than most men out there.
When I am at the bar it is usually my friends that pull me there as their designated driver and I do sometimes the tipsy smart girl take some grungy bar fly home come to think of it. It is hard to drink a woman beautiful on pepsi alone lol.
I have 2 friends , ( one an ex GF) that died of aids and one that is a walking rake, thin ghostly white with yellow eyes because hepatitus is shutting down his organs. So perhaps because of what I have seen I am the exception to the norm. I dont want to be in a hospital bed before my time, there are other things in life that I enjoy. Seeing what I have seen has scared the crap out of me.
I appreciate curves on a woman and skin tone facial features of alot of cultures and if I see something I really like I take time, I dont hit on everything that offers me sex because I have that picture of my ex GF in the back of my mind looking at me through withering eyes telling me to learn from her mistake. It was a 4 year span since I had seen her last, a disease like that changes a person so much it is like a horror flic dude except you are not in the movie theater.
Women are sexual creatures just like men are, and I have a sex drive just like any other man out there, but I dont hump anything that will go home with me. Yes I have been called a pussy tease by some women I have dated and yes the ones that were seriously interested get tested for STD and bring me the results to show they are in the clear. Perhaps by your terms you may of thought I had no drive or chicken of women, no just seen alot of the negative aftermath and I think now you will understand why I will not hit at any chance that a woman may make available.
LikeLike
island girl
You mentioned that you see some men not bothering with some pretty women. Here is what I have seen, some men assume there is a significant other because she is beautiful or pretty. Some will not ask because they assume they will not be able to afford her because she shows class and good taste in clothes. Others may figure because of low self esteem that she will just turn them down so they will not even try to ask her out.
Here is the kicker, she ends up being asked out by some jerk that is a complete ass because he was the only one that asked her out!
It happens alot.
I never asked any dark women or women from a different ethnic background out when I was younger because I would rule them out, thinking that I would just be turned down anyways so I never bothered, even though I would of given my eye teeth to be with them!
LOL If only I knew then what I know now! such a true statement.
Heinsight is 20/20
LikeLike
Well, if men don’t have the cahonas to ask a woman that they like out, then they don’t deserve her. I cannot stand men like that. They always send someone over to me to speak for them. Either their friend, server, ect. Everyone has to take risks in life. If a man doesn’t have enough courage to respectfully approach me, then how are they in other aspects of life?
LikeLike
“Well, if men don’t have the cahonas to ask a woman that they like out, then they don’t deserve her. I cannot stand men like that. They always send someone over to me to speak for them. Either their friend, server, ect. Everyone has to take risks in life. If a man doesn’t have enough courage to respectfully approach me, then how are they in other aspects of life?”
CO-SIGN CO-SIGN CO-SIGN!!!!!
The same happens with me! If a guy is interested he always sends a friend to relay the message and it is so off putting. I automatically say no to those guys.
One guy I knew was had swagger and prided himself on being soo cool and popular. However, when it came time to ask me out he sent his friend to ask me while standing back…What a big phony…Im not saying I need a super duper alpha male but if a man cant walk up and say he likes you know do you have a relationship?
LikeLike
Paul sez:
Women are sexual creatures just like men are, and I have a sex drive just like any other man out there, but I dont hump anything that will go home with me.
Fine, Paul. Let’s presume that you have the self-control of a Franciscan monk (on the other hand, given the current scandals in the catholic church, maybe I should choose another example). You never, ever have sex unless you see a free bill of health first and even then, you only have sex with women who intellectually and emotionally stimulate you.
Fine. Granted.
How normal do you think that attitude is among men, Paul?
Based on personal experience, I’d say “not very”.
LikeLike
Thad
I am just saying that having been in a hospital room watching an ex GF die of aids made me cautious, very cautious. I did not say I was competing with the pope for christs sake!! Unless you watch someone die of that crap I do not expect you to understand it. Yes not everyone is the same, true! Not everyone has the same experiences either. I do date women, I just said I was more cautious than most, I did not try to make myself look or be the pope! or a monk! And yes I know about the scandals, I also know about the old catacomes with all the born and unborn children from the priests and nuns way back in time in europe. As for who I have sex with it is not a stranger, I prefer someone I am in a relationship with. I have done the party scene and been with women I barely knew when I was younger I grew out of it. I am not looking to pick up a different woman every week. If that is what you are comparing me to then yes I guess that I am not the norm in your eyes. I guess to be one of the average men I have to be hornier than a hound dog in heat hitting on every woman I see? Is this the norm for you? If all you want to do is have sex with as many woman as you can then that is your goal, you are entitled to that goal, it isnt mine. Sex with someone I do not know or am intrigued by is nothing, hollow, its like picking up milk at the market, just an itch to scratch.
Here is a question Thad. If you had a wife say like Sandra Bullock, Or any woman of your ideal choice, would you go out of your way to cheat on her just because you think that is what a man is suppose to do and is expected to do? be that horny dog humping anything in sight? Or would you respect her enough to be only with her? Or perhaps you are a poligamist? there are some out there, not sure what your view is but I am curious.
Island girl
I agree if someone does not ask you out he does not deserve the chance and it is his loss. However with time those same people can realize that they have nothing to loose and everything to gain if they put forth the effort, right?
Y
I know what you are saying, and you are right, it is less personable when someone goes round robin to find out if you might be interested in going out with them. I have seen that method in place. I personally would ask the women directly as I would not want other people involved with my interest in a woman, I do not bring my best buddy along like I would when shopping for a car.
LikeLike
Blanc 2 your lady is so lucky to have you! So articulate and analytical, yet sensitive and understanding about the complex issues associated with interracial relationships and attraction. You are a rarity!! All my love to you and your wife from a bw of course.
LikeLike
Nice generalizations of what white men are attracted to. What is this obsession with white men anyway? is this your definition of interracial dating? it includes other races too. My boyfriend is east indian!
btw, white men love afros because it is unique.
also, if you really want a white man then go to Europe(italy, norway, denmark,france, germany, etc). American White men already have preconceived notions about black people. White educated European men are much smarter because they think outside the box. Free thinkers.
LikeLike
abagond, you will see more white men with thin middle class black women because 1) they learn how to take care of themselves from growing up in good middle class family and environment. 2)can afford to go to college and educate themselves. This is where many of these relationships begin!
LikeLike
Blog posts like these make me want to move to Europe. Black women still having inferiority complexes with interracial dating, while Black men have overcome it and are dating and marrying Whites, Asians,Indians, Spanish, etc.
I never once thought about if a man of another race would like my features enough to date me. How ridicuous!
LikeLike
I am in a relationship with a wonderful lady. She has an amazing personality and always greets me with a smile. We enjoy many of the same interest and take pleasure in the time we have together. I feel blessed that she is by my side.
Each of us find love in many shapes, sizes and yes, colors. This is why we are called individuals. Though many of us are raised to place labels on others through our cultural upbringings, we shall discover love from our hearts as well as through our eyes, no matter the shape, size or color.
LikeLike
One question: what happened with the main photo of this post?!? The one with a black woman in a restaurant?
By the way, my cousing, who saw this page, voted for Lela Rochon as the most attractive… of the famous ladies. But as THE most attractive he voted one of the commenters. Which means, I guess, he’s not really into famous ladies.
LikeLike
Mira, he must’ve changed it, but I don’t mind. Although I liked the old photo, I love Jourdan Dunn, and the guy with her is just hot. Wow. I need to find out who he is. If he were sitting next to me I would not be reading.
LikeLike
Natasha, I’m almost sure the guy in the old photo (sitting at the table) is the very fine Lilo Brancato (who was in the film Bronx Tale). Unfortunately, Lilo got caught up in drugs and crime, and is jail until at least 2012 or 2014.
LikeLike
Thanks Celina! I googled him. He looks terrible now. What a waste. Or maybe he only looks good from the profile.
LikeLike
@Natasha W
Mira, he must’ve changed it, but I don’t mind. Although I liked the old photo, I love Jourdan Dunn, and the guy with her is just hot. Wow. I need to find out who he is. If he were sitting next to me I would not be reading.
I had to Google Jourdan Dunn, I had no idea who she was. She looks fantastic, and the whole new photo is great. Still, the old one has a special place in my heart, since it was the first post I read on this site (and the post that made me discover this blog).
As for the guy, I have no idea who he is, but I must admit I don’t find him particularly attractive. He’s… I don’t know. Too pale? Or just looks like Robert Pattinson a bit (and I can’t stand the guy).
LikeLike
Natasha: I googled Brancato to see his latest pic and there is an awful pic of someone else attributed as if him. Is this what you saw? http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/bronx/2008/10/15/2008-10-15_sister_of_daniel_enchautegui_weeps_as_su.html)
LikeLike
Mira,
Still, the old one has a special place in my heart, since it was the first post I read on this site (and the post that made me discover this blog).
Mine too, actually. This was the first post I commented on and second one I read.
As for the guy, I have no idea who he is, but I must admit I don’t find him particularly attractive. He’s… I don’t know. Too pale?
You colorist! 🙂
His pale skin is lovely in juxtaposition with his dark hair. And that bone structure and body shape. Makes me drool. Same things that attracted me to my SO.
Or just looks like Robert Pattinson a bit (and I can’t stand the guy).
Ah, no. I don’t think Robert Pattinson is cute. How dare you compare him to Robert. Robert has a baby face, whereas he is all male.
LikeLike
Brancato will always be fine to me, but I’m a sucker for a guy with a beauty mark anyway. http://images.eonline.com/eol_images/Entire_Site/20081222/293.Lillo.122208.jpg
LikeLike
Celina, your link says “Page Not Found.”
LikeLike
LikeLike
And speaking of black women/white men, the story for A Bronx Tale really did it for me. Anyone see the movie? Any thoughts?
LikeLike
Celina: He looks better from the profile. 😛
LikeLike
@Natasha W
You colorist! 🙂
I must admit I am. 😦 It’s not a good thing, and I guess it’s my culture’s fault. It can also be a form of hidden self-hate since I am very light skinned (but with dark hair). I know it’s not a good thing, and I know pale people can be beautiful, but I guess this form of colourism is something I share. I don’t like to talk about it here because I don’t want to make it into “oooh, it happens to me too!!!”- it’s not the same as colourism among black people.
Ah, no. I don’t think Robert Pattinson is cute. How dare you compare him to Robert. Robert has a baby face, whereas he is all male.
Well, true, true, this guy is a man, Robert is a boy. Nothing wrong with baby face, but this guy does look more mature. But you’re right, he looks better from the profile.
LikeLike
Join new Facebook group
White Men Who Know Black Women Are the Most Beautiful Women
http://www.facebook.com/#!/group.php?gid=116113995067370&ref=ts
LikeLike
Mira,
I agree with you. I like the other picture a lot better. The woman model is beautiful.
LikeLike
I agree with Mira–this guy’s too angular for me! 🙂
LikeLike
Jasmin, I like angular: chiseled jaw, defined shoulder, long legs. I’m thinking it’s just a “me” thing.
LikeLike
Natasha,
I like angular faces, but not angular bodies. His forehead protudes a bit too much for my liking (though it may be the photo angle and the hair), and he’s way too thin. But I do like the so-called “manly, rugged, hard edges” look.
LikeLike
Hey just from my observation though really have you ever seen anyone who is a super hottie white guy someone like a new version of Brad pitt like Cam Gigandet dating or married to a black woman. I like to date WM but the ones I want don’t want me… I look like Beyonce with better shaped legs might I add
But the ones that come to me are these old has beens who probably looked down on us black women looked like brad now no white woman wants them and they think the only thing to get that is on their low down level is Beyonce? come on now the world has changed not all blacks are poor and need money if thats what these arses are thining. I’d rather die than be married to some old white fart. At 37 I want to date my age or maybe a 25 year old good looking white man nothing elses.
LikeLike
That’s a very common pet peeve many young black women have- older white men approaching us with an annoying sense of entitlement.
When they are past their prime, have nothing to offer in the way of looks, or are simply world weary and jaded, they think their economic power alone is a pull factor. Couple that with the notion that they think they are doing us a favor. That sheer arrogance is downright disgusting!
LikeLike
LOL @ Miss legs
cute pins haha 🙂
LikeLike
@ Natasha and Jasmin
I am soo with you on the angular features tip! I love chiseled, squared jawed men with defined brow bones and sharper features(which is relative depending on race)…To me that is the holy grail of masculinity.
I have to agree with Jasmin that the man pictured above is too skinny, its a little weird. I’m okay with skinny guys but if I had the choice I would pick a tall muscular guy over a talk skinny one.
LikeLike
MerriMay & Miss Legs: I hear you.
[Please note to all the prickly p.c. people: This is a generalization based on my observations/experience on the east coast (between NC-NYC).]
Whenever I’ve seen extremely attractive hot American white guys (under 40) who are seen out in public dating black women (or have hit on me in the past), it’s been mostly:
a. while he’s young (i.e., in college and exploring);
b. a liberal/granola guy who DOESN’T have a clue how fine he is (and probably is a wee corny and dresses poorly);
c. he’s a model/actor and his black girlfriend is one too;
d. he’s a sexual predator/fetishist;
e. he’s looking for a hot black woman under 30 years old; or
f. he’s probably not American.
I don’t know about you all, but over the past 10 years, I have noticed some incredibly handsome white American men dating Asian women (often plain janes). Especially in NYC.
LikeLike
I say love is cool. I can love white men without hating black men. I only hate black men who denigrate and attack the femininity and humanity of black women! Those guys are worse than Neo Nazis and skinheads in my book! I think Black men who don’t agree with such misogyny should put those fools on blast too!
LikeLike
abagond i’m interested in a topic on what type of white men black women like and what type of white women black men like….
LikeLike
Greetings everyone,
I enjoy reading your blogs as well as the responses.
I grew up in CT. and live there now, but I have visit NY. regularly.
I agree that as I see it, most white men have their general preferences when it comes to black women, however like one user said if one sees a woman as an intelligent loving individual who will make a promising mate the outer appearance will not be the most important.
I am a Black American young woman and I have been told many times I look very much like Bria Myles. I take it as a compliment because she’s one of my favorite models and actually I do, dark Milk chocolate complexion,full lips, full bottom, very curvy,round nose,etc.. and my husband is white. He is well spoken and sometimes dress prep or in a suit,with or without the jacket.
When we first met, before he ever knew I was well spoken also, he approached me by only attraction to my looks and I guess fashion matters to men also. I was not dressed slutty or hip- hopish, Just capris, high heels and a dressy blouse with accessories, I usually wear my hair long, curly or strait, or in a chic ponytail. (Im giving details in case it matters)
Anyway, we now are a young married couple in our late 20’s and have a school age son together. We are middle class now, but when we met-(at a mixed latin style club) years ago we both were still living with our parents.
Since then we have build a life together.
Now that our son is a little older, I have recently went back to college, so im a college mom-house wife.
We are very big on education, culture, judging people by their character, nature and are spiritual. This is how we raise our child as well.
We live in a predominately white town in Storrs, where you dont see many black woman, much less interracial couples, so were making our mark! lol, however everyone is very friendly. The only real diversity is from Uconn University.
We teach our son of his culture from both aspects and our child is very proud of his mixed culture.
Ultimately if any man only cares about looks without getting to know the woman’s personality to see her inner beauty he’s not worth being with anyway.
To me that’s just too shallow.
LikeLike
Very well said by all you ladies….
Now, all this hostility towards age challenged caucasion males…..
All I can say is , I aint dead yet……
Some older guys offer experiance…..
You all are just getting all those forlorn longing looks because they finaly got their viagra perscrition….
ok, just relax…..just kidding…..
what the hell, Im glad Im in Brazil…young black women are always coming on to me……in some discotech called “help disco”….
LikeLike
BR,
You crack me up. 🙂
LikeLike
I read some of the comments and I enjoy sex and with my black woman more than I ever thought possible. We have a son that is remarkably handsome but the age difference is hurting her I’m almost 52 and she is 28. I want more than anything in the world for her to be a mommy to our son but she is unable. I searched deep in my soul and told myself that no matter what don’t ever call this problem a race issue. Plenty of white women fail as parents. I still love her and she knows it but she is pretty much finnished as a parent. I can’t help it if she dies of a broken heart I have our son to raise all by myself and that is pretty intense. We get alot of stares from narrow minded people and that’s OK my dad raised me right. We are holding our own and he’ll be 21/2 on Tuesday
LikeLike
BR,
What we’re critical of isn’t older men per se, but the type of older American WM that was an ANIT-BW RACIST in his youth and now has a ARROGANT/DISGUSTING sense of ENTITLEMENT to younger BW.
Like women of ANY RACE, BW have the right to quality men who will love and respect them.
LikeLike
@ BR
You hit the nail on the head. No age discrimination in Brazil. There is Equal Opportunity Lovin for everyone. Not only can a 45-55 year old man date women 18 on up (without getting stares), Women can do the same. Wasn’t Ivete seeeing some 21 year old guy for awhile?
@BigMan
Hang in there. There are plenty of good women out there in all colors. Just a thought: Try finding a good church that has all kinds of partionars. Don’t know where you are at, but St. Louis, MO has multi-racial churches with large attendance. These contemporary Christian churches are all over the country. You should be able to find one. (I’m just saying, you would probably find a good woman there with good values.)
LikeLike
ColorOfLuv,
The comments some of us have made regarding the arrogance/sense of entitlement that some American older WM have towards younger BW (when they rejected BW when they were younger men) has NOTHING to do with “age discrimination”.
There is nothing wrong with age gap relationships between older/younger WM and older/younger BW as long as they’re based on mutual love/respect.
LikeLike
That’s all good and dandy, but the idea of being with anyone over 45 would gross me out!
Imagine waking up next to a wrinkled saggy old body, bear in mind caucasian males post 40 age at such an alarming rate anyway,yikes!
English men have their own special brand of arrogance, heck they civilised half of the world, why wouldn’t you want to be with them? They should use those gleaming bald heads to read my mind that I wouldn’t be caught dead with any of them!!
LikeLike
Absolutly, Color blahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Ladies, Im all with you about arrogant white males, avoid them like the plaugue
Merri, I doubt there is a male black or white under 30 who has the ability and skill and knowledge I do of the art of cunnilingus …any one can take viagra…but, intimite knowledge of how to give pleasure to a woman only comes with time and experiance
LikeLike
@Celina
I watched a bronx tale it was alright , I watched becasue of Taral Hicks I love her music such a underated vocalist.
The film was directed by Robert de Niro and I think Calogero was supposed to be Robert De Niro becasue he did look like him a little and De Niro mostly dated and has married black women so yeah it was an okay film.
LikeLike
@Aiyo: Glad you watched the film, but being 16 years later after it was released, I doubt the film feels as fresh as it did for me when I saw it. (Lots of people love it, and I’m one.) Anyway, at first glance I too thought that the film was based loosely on DeNiro’s life, but it wasn’t. Although DeNiro directed the film, Chazz Palminteri (Sonny) wrote it, and the character of Calogero is based loosely on Palminteri’s life.
LikeLike
HUGE OVERSIGHT TO ABAGOND’S LIST OF BLACK WOMEN THAT WHITE MEN LIKE:
Aisha Tyler!!! How did we forget her?!?
LikeLike
Aisha Tyler. Good call! I just added her to the post. For some strange reason I cannot imagine her being with anyone BUT a white man.
LikeLike
Aisha Tyler is a good one. I’ve heard more white men mention her than Halle Berry, which is saying a lot. I think her personality is a large part of the draw too.
LikeLike
I don’t know anything about her. What makes her that popular with white men?
LikeLike
Abagond and Natasha: Good points!
Mira: Aisha is an uber witty/comedic talent of the suburban set, “gamer”, and liberal political activist. IMO, she is authentically and comfortably assimilated into white pop culture, with no touch of any urban/ghetto connection/”blackitude” which makes her very approachable and likable by whites. On top of that, she’s beautiful in a westernized way (small, “less African” features, long hair, slim/tall (no big booty).
LikeLike
black men like women who have swag and are sassy. white men tend to prefer a woman in general who is not as openly confident but still classy, they seem to find the women with a lot of swag intimidating..
LikeLike
Yes, your distinction is quite subtle and some of the women in group 2 seem to belong in group 1 and vice versa (based on your descriptions). Also, I would say your observation of white mens’ preferences is a vast over-generalization, especially in a post-Obama world. I find almost all the women in both sets of pictures lovely and fascinating and quite worth any kind of relationship. (having not met any of them, I’m responding to visual impressions). Myself, I prefer darker, less “mixed-looking” women, but not exclusively. It’s all about intelligence and a down-to-earth personality and an adventurous & compassionate spirit. Put all that in a cocoa beauty and we are in business!
LikeLike
As a WM who’s dated BW, I always liked a big behind and a big chest, regardless of color.
But yes, WM will choose women on how well-educated they are, whether or not deep down we respect them (intelligence, ambition, character) like everybody does.
It’s also of course, an economic decision. Does she know how to spend money wisely? Will she see me as a piggy bank and herself as a princess? Will we grow financially together?…will we be successful together? It plays into it…
Because black folks have not traditionally had money (we all know why) this is potentially important.
And I’m going to throw this in there: CP time was killing me with my girlfriend. I’m there at 8..I’ll wait but don’t make me wait too long. Can you be where you say you’re gonna be when you say you’ll be there? At least when you try?
LikeLike
@ Chrisn
Your girlfriend being late has nothing to do with her being black, that is a woman thing. When women get ready (before a night out, date, whatever) they often leave thier friends and boyfriends waiting…
It simply takes women longer to get ready.
LikeLike
Richard,
“Also, I would say your observation of white mens’ preferences is a vast over-generalization, especially in a post-Obama world.”
*snort*
Yes, all the racism in America was wiped out that one fateful night in November of 2008.
It’s amazing how many [white] people think this, even considering how much “latent” racism has surfaced since Obama’s election.
Chrisn,
“As a WM who’s dated BW, I always liked a big behind and a big chest, regardless of color.”
*roll eyes*
And I date white men because of their cool eye colors and medium-sized members.
“But yes, WM will choose women on how well-educated they are, whether or not deep down we respect them (intelligence, ambition, character) like everybody does.”
Can you clarify what you mean by this? I don’t about you, but I need to respect my partner.
“And I’m going to throw this in there: CP time was killing me with my girlfriend. I’m there at 8..I’ll wait but don’t make me wait too long. Can you be where you say you’re gonna be when you say you’ll be there? At least when you try?”
Funny, my SO is perpetually late. 3 o’clock means 3:31 to him. Whereas I am always on time, if not early. I calculate how long it will take me to get ready and be at a certain place, and plan accordingly. But I don’t think this has anything to do with race. It’s due to our personalities and upbringings.
LikeLike
jen
What is your definition of “Swag”
LikeLike
I’ve not really dated any black women – I’ve had a few opportunities that didn’t come to fruition – but I have been interested in several so I can at least offer something from that perspective.
(Bear in mind that “black” in my context means African rather than African-American, because that’s what we have in Australia. But black American culture is quite pervasive here as well.)
Personally I find beauty in a range of black women, be it light-skinned or dark-skinned. Full lips are one of my favourite features so I guess that’s one reason my I like them. I’m not such a big-statured guy, and perhaps for that reason I prefer thin rather than thick women.
I must admit that there were plenty of stereotypes buzzing around in my head when I first started meeting black women and considered dating them. My other girlfriends have tended to be East Asian or South Asian, so in comparison, I was expecting black women to be somehow more “wild” or “sassy”. Also, because blackness is often seen as cooler than whiteness or Asianness, I kinda envisioned that having a black woman on my arm would confer some coolness to me as well. Plus there was some stupid guy shit about “venturing into deepest darkest Africa”, “brown sugar” and all that.
Of course, I would be interested them as people and for their personality and looks, but there was still a tinge of viewing them as an “exotic” black person, as opposed to just another person who I might choose to date. Stereotypes can be very pervasive, and I was conscious about making sure I separated the stereotype from the person.
So I’d imagine that for a lot of non-black men, they might also be influenced by whatever image they have of black women in their mind. There are positive stereotypes as well as negative ones. A common image of black women is that they are loud, sassy and expressive; for some guys that is attractive and sexy, for some it is a bit scary and threatening. But I figure that once someone gets to know black women on a more personal level, they are less likely to exoticise them and the stereotyps would be less applicable.
LikeLike
you should add zoe saldana. a lot of white men seem to find her attractive. she polled the highest place for a black woman in the recent fhm.
LikeLike
““As a WM who’s dated BW, I always liked a big behind and a big chest, regardless of color.”
*roll eyes*
Natasha responds “And I date white men because of their cool eye colors and medium-sized members.”
ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh good one, Natasha
LikeLike
Yeah,but where’s former Spice Girl(“Scary Spice”)Melanie Brown,aka
Mel. B. ON THIS LIST????She’s got the best body of any black babe today!!!!(Though I don’t know why she decided to hook up with ugly Eddie Murphy and have two brats with him!!!!)
LikeLike
Jen,I’m black and CAN’T STAND “sassy” women.(Could it be because I’m a classically handsome black lad and most “sassy” black women are DISGUSTINGLY FAT?)
LikeLike
@Cawboyjohn-brad
Well the sassy black overweight black women seem to populate the screens
LikeLike
Well I liked alot that blog, As a Brasilliam White man ( blond, pale, hazel eyes etc) And I always had a crush on black girls.
I agree about the lists but I do not agree about the second one. (since I find some of them also attractives).
I am 24 and I’ve grew up really wishing to date a black girl since in my 11’s. I always went surrounded by drop gourgous WW, dated some but I never had real, pure physical attraction for them.
Me myself plus majority my WM friends ‘ always chatted “hidden” in the school/house about black girls similar the ones on cartoons, such as Stormy (X-Men), Avatar Last Air bender(katara) and mainly the one from our childhood Diana the acrobat (Dungeons and dragons)
I am really to death attracted to Daina the acrobat black girl types( dungeons and dragons cartoon, look it up if you don’t know her), which in the cartoon, she basicly had a full african features (darker brown skin, but fair frizz hair, and pretty facial black women feature, not so wide nose, not so big lips, maybe a 10-20% euro admixture in their veins in the cartoon facial feature), black eyes, and darker skin, sweet/atletic body (not to thin not to thick).
Basicly if I associted her with a celebrity from USA I could say Sanaa Lathan darker.
In the Brasil it was quite easier to find these BW on avarage, since black- white admixture is waaaaay higher than in usa.
Thefore, these drop godlike black girls DARKER kind are IN FACT the majority white males dream, I’d say.
In early my 20’s, I simply coudn’t hide any longer my insane attraction for avarage-pretty darker black girls.
I mean, that’s true here it’s more safely WM dates/marry BW cos our history (thanks GOD), but some colorism/racism still exists mainly at teenage phases(the what my friends will say thingy).
Basicly that’s what hold the WM of looking for to date BWs at teen ages and make them end up either hatin or going for some other ethenic which resemble abit black girls(asian girls, in the case).
(doesnt matter the country, you can’t simply negate the fact there’s CLEAR attration btween blacks and whites, contrast attracts, my friends. That explains too why we were mixing btween us dozens thousands years even though elite eurocentric says blacks are sub-human). contraditory, inst it? Theres at least over 2 billions black and whites with both bloods or some percentage of both.
So, summaring, I dated at 20 my first black girl, which I met in the college. She was simply the girl of my dreams and orgams. As I thought, either sex, kissing, or just havin regular life, she beated all my previous drop gorgous WW experiences. In the sex I couldn’t go more near heaven than it. Exactly as I suspected.
So bascily I am pure white male and I assume firmly I LOVE black girls, mainly the darker ones who has little european admixite.
LikeLike
Great to hear a white male Brazilian’s perspective , since , mostly we hear from white Americans who live in Brazil on here.
LikeLike
Found this site surfin to see why other white men find black women so attractive. Thought I’d put my $2 in (inflation). I’m a pretty old dude, hippy in the 60’s in high school, from Florida. Integration in schools happened round ’67. For some reason a lot more black girls than guys, and they were like dark orchids in a field of wilted lilies. Elegant Princesses in a courtyard of grumbling citizens. Even with afros and no makup, but I was too shy to get to know them then.
Then drafted during vietnam war, and most of my friends in army were black guys… and seems strange, but there was less racism in army in early ’70’s than now, bothways.
After army, married to WW and a few WW relationships after that; got divorced, and met my first real love, black girl named Jonelle; that didnt work out for other reasons than race; after that Wanda, then Karee, then Katrina… none of the relationships ended because of race, but they were fairly long term relationships because….
On the average, Black women DONT USE SEX AS A WEAPON!! If there’s a heated argument, and a glass salt shaker or empty wine bottle nearbye, you might need good reflexes, but after that, the makeup sex is great.
A black woman will have your back, even if she thinks you’re wrong, in public you’re a team, in private that’s another story.
Not to get too graphic, and sorry if this offends, but WW taste like bitter urine, BW taste like sweet molasses, and the cuddling is warm and soft and with so many WW it’s bony, cold, and “get off my hair!”.
They say, all life originated out of Africa, and I think black women are more advanced on the feminine evolutionary scale than others.
For all the comments about old, fat white men thinking they “deserve” a young black woman, there’s plenty of black women that use that to their advantage, too, but on the pure relationship side… there are white men who think black women are the best partners on the planet.
LikeLike
Yeah,shakystiltz,but a LOT of black women believe themselves black men’s superiors,and would likely be b***hy towards white men.
LikeLike
@B.R
————
No problem, I wanted to share my perspective, really.
PS : MY fiance is exatly like the black girl (diana of acrobat) from dungeons and dragons cartoon 😀 I’m so in love… Heheheheheheh Funny cos I looks like Erik(the blond guy in the cartoon).
@CowboyJohn-Brad,
————
I do some words about it.
Of course WM up there in anglo contries may find resistence from BW if you’all wake up tomorrow and decide all together to date BW, as it went more less some decades ago in the Brasil and in other parts world almong the history.
BUT, As I’m a white 3rd generation decended germans in the Brasil, I have to say that, the only way to keep the world in order is whites mixing with blacks. And blacks and whites living closer each other, fact. Blacks entertain whites, white entertain blacks, be it in the hate or love thats fact.
This is the thought which made brazil this wonderful place it is. Id’say.
In the Brasil there’s no riots/Violence about religion, genocide, creed, or anything you guys has up there. Skinheads, black panters, neo nazis, kkk. zzz. war makers. terrorism or any other bs you all near purity do to keep your desires hidden.
In my opinion, I believe that it because we lived way much “isoled” and whites need something else. Same goes with black people near purity in africa, they need something else.
Ofc the brasil ain’t the superpower ultra mega force of world, but that’s the idea, we dont worry about it at all. I think black blood and white blood combined makes the people have both, pride, soul, intellect alltogether. Can live in poverty still do not make riots, religions wars, genocide, jump in other country for stole researchs and still, live happy. Why do you think whole world (french, uk etc) are alltogether mixing intensivly? Because that’s the right way. (And we did it countless times in the past, too). Adding the bonus we have attraction btween us. (as I said, contrast attracts)
PS : Stuffs you may ask::
——————————————————
1) Pedro, Aint it abit off topic? Why are you saying it?
R: I’m saying it cos might have white supremacists or “racists” WM reading this blog who has crushs on BW but have no idea how it works, or are afraid to give it a try. (And believe it or not, there’s zillions WM who secretly want BW of their taste).
2) “Oh Pedro, but I didn’t see many WM/BW on the brasilliam streets when I went there”.
R: Well, ofc, Brasil is as big as usa. The white and black brasilliam in majority already are mixed. the both bloods already are in everywhere. BW in brasil can varry of darkest point in the universe ’till pale blond with blue eyes. So it’s more balanced nowdays. And still there’s zillions whites (light) and blacks (dark) couples here either WM/BW or WW/BM.
——————————————————–
As that’s the last time i’ll post here, Well, I’m 100% sure now that I want not only keep datin my current BW but too to marry her soon.
I do white pride and I will marry someone who has black price, we will do excellent childreen who will have pride to be Brasilliams, and not black or white 🙂
I really wish gl for you all, my WM brothers, up there.
LikeLike
Zoe Saldana is a Latina
LikeLike
BUT, As I’m a white 3rd generation decended germans in the Brasil, I have to say that, the only way to keep the world in order is whites mixing with blacks.
Sh1t… João Batista Lacerda rides again!
Pedro, you are aware that “micing ” ideology in Brazil has some very unsavory and racist roots, right…?
“The mulatto struggle to unite [with white women] and thus return his descendants to the pure white type. It has already been seen that after three generations, mixed-blood children present all the physical characteristics of the white race, even though there is some persistence of traits of the negro race due to atavism. Persistent sexual selection will wipe out this atavism and purge the mestiço’s descendents of all characteristics of the negro. Thanks to this ethnic reduction procedure, it’s logical to suppose that, in the space of a century, the mestiços will have disappeared from Brazil, a fact which will coincide with the extinction of the negro race among us….
Brazil’s mixed blood population should thus look quite different a century from now. The stream of European immigration which daily adds to this country’s white element will eventually end up suffocating those elements in which traces of the negro might still persist.
Before a century’s out, the population of Brazil will probably mostly be made up of Latin individuals of the white race, and the negro and Indian will doubtless have disappeared from this part of America. A brilliant future is in store for Brazil, which will become the main place where the white latin race will reinvigorate itself and South America, in the same way that the Saxon race has done for North America.”
(Anthropologist and biologist João Batista Lacerda, Sub-Director of Brazil’s National Museum, “On Brazilian Mestiços”, 1911: 18-19)
Zoe Saldana is a Latina.
As Lacerda points out, one can be black, white or indian AND latin.
LikeLike
I’m a WM who has always been attracted to black women after dating a BW in college seriously for about two years. We had plans to marry after completing school but her parents were sure that no good was going to come out of the situation and convinced her to return home. We shared perhaps the strongest bond that I or we had ever felt despite adversity from peers. This was a devastating blow to both of us when her parents made it clear that she was not going through with the engagement.
As far as my preferences are concerned yes, I like slim or average sized women more than big women but skin color and hair are unimportant. I actually prefer women with natural hair over severely straightened hair.
The over riding thing that attracts me to a woman is her personality. Looks come and go but the personality is there for good. I tend to see women as more than what is in her jeans or her shirt!
What I don’t understand is why some black women don’t seem to want to be approached by a white man. I’ve been snubbed or ignored by BW several times when just making a friendly comment ar trying to stike up a conversation.
If some BW would just let themselves be open to the possibilities they might find some new friendhsips. Maybe it’s a defense mechanism to protect themselves from uncertainties of an interracial relationship?
LikeLike
Whynot,
“We shared perhaps the strongest bond that I or we had ever felt despite adversity from peers. This was a devastating blow to both of us when her parents made it clear that she was not going through with the engagement.”
Sorry to hear that. 😦
Parents/family can be a huge impediment to the progress of interracial partnerships.
“What I don’t understand is why some black women don’t seem to want to be approached by a white man. I’ve been snubbed or ignored by BW several times when just making a friendly comment ar trying to stike up a conversation. Maybe it’s a defense mechanism to protect themselves from uncertainties of an interracial relationship?”
I rarely see white men approach black women outside of a professional environment. So I can only speculate as to the thinking of black women that ignore advances by white men; it might have to do with some of the reasons in this post:
ihttps://abagond.wordpress.com/2010/02/08/why-some-black-women-prefer-not-to-date-some-white-men/
LikeLike
What I don’t understand is why some black women don’t seem to want to be approached by a white man.
What I don’t understand is how you don’t understand this. AGREE with it is one thing, but understand it? Given the U.S.’ long history of racial segregation? Given thye sexual myths taught white men and black women about one another? Given the violent history of racism?
I mean, what’s not to understand?
What I don’t personally understand is why people feel that sexuality is a more important field for race relations thatn anything else one could name. I don’t understand this American obsession with sex as a bad or dangerous thing.
LikeLike
@Thad,
I think what Pedro was saying is that mixing is desirable because it helps to eliminate the social basis for racial extremism (i.e. supposed “purity) not because it breeds the black out of the population.
LikeLike
Thaddeus,
I’m not trying to pick a fight. I’m just sharing my observations speaking of interacial relationships here.
Yes, we have all been taught about the great differences between black and white in our culture, the great racial divide and all of the crap that goes along with it. But why keep churning that up?
What I don’t understand is those that still want to hide behind that or don’t want to venture beyond what is in the past. Isn’t it time to open up to the future and move beyond cultural differences and begin to put the past behind us?
It just isn’t beneficial to keep turning over the same old rocks and letting the same old monsters slither out from under the bed.
Maybe my view of future possibilities is much different than yours.
Just my 2 cents and enough of that.
LikeLike
FG, I understand Pedro’s position. I am merely trying to show some of the historical roots behind Brazil’s enshrining miscegenation as a positive value. Whether Pedro is aware of these or not, they exist and they have had an impact upon his education.
LikeLike
Whynot,
“What I don’t understand is those that still want to hide behind that or don’t want to venture beyond what is in the past. Isn’t it time to open up to the future and move beyond cultural differences and begin to put the past behind us?”
The problem is — many of these issues are not the past. Did you read the post I linked? I think I messed up the link the first time around, so here it is again:
Notice that none of the reasons listed are about past racial issues (at least not directly), but have to do with the way that white men currently perceive and treat black women. Given these reasons, if you were a black woman, wouldn’t you have a few qualms about dating white men?
LikeLike
Natasha W
Your point is taken but the post sums up by saying “as long as he respects you” then go for it or words to that effect.
Isn’t that the point though.. respect for the other person?
If guess there will always be some that are so clueless as to how to interact with people that there is no real answer to that.
LikeLike
Whynot,
“Your point is taken but the post sums up by saying “as long as he respects you” then go for it or words to that effect.
Isn’t that the point though.. respect for the other person?”
Well, you can’t just assume a person is respectful, if you don’t know them, can you? I’m not saying that presuming a person to be a certain way is helpful, but “once bitten, twice shy.”
LikeLike
Natasha W
You said ” Well, you can’t just assume a person is respectful, if you don’t know them, can you? I’m not saying that presuming a person to be a certain way is helpful, but “once bitten, twice shy.””
No, you can’t assume that but wouldn’t you be able to determine very quickly if a person has respect for the other and if he turns out to be a thoughtless clod then bail out fast?
As the saying goes ” You can’t win if you don’t play.”
Personally I think that if you make up your mind that any WM that approaches you might be a disrepectful jerk and refuse to open your self to at least try then you’re going to pass by a potential winner.
LikeLike
Whynot,
“No, you can’t assume that but wouldn’t you be able to determine very quickly if a person has respect for the other and if he turns out to be a thoughtless clod then bail out fast?”
I’m not sure if you can determine someone’s character so quickly; many people are not what they seem. I agree that one could just bail out, but the damage will be done.
“As the saying goes ” You can’t win if you don’t play.”
Personally I think that if you make up your mind that any WM that approaches you might be a disrepectful jerk and refuse to open your self to at least try then you’re going to pass by a potential winner.”
Very true and I say that from time to time on this blog.
Luckily I didn’t know the extent of the barriers between black women and white men when I met my partner (he is whtie). Even though I still would’ve been interested in him, it probably helped to be more forgiving of small faults.
LikeLike
*white
LikeLike
Black women (well, most women really) where I’m from (Chicago) tend to be dismissive of guys on the street, because nothing good usually comes from getting hit on while walking down the block. It happens so often that it gets annoying, so better to look stone-faced than deal with all of the scrubs.
LikeLike
Jasmin
Yeah, I’m originally from the Chicago area and know that stone faced look well !
But don’t you respond differently in a more conducive atmosphere when a nice looking guy approaches you properly and tries to make contact?
I would imagine that no women like being hit on by guys yelling comments on the street.
LikeLike
Well, I have a boyfriend, so I never tend to respond positively to male attention :-P, but I think it depends where. When I’m going somewhere, walking on the street, I don’t want to be bothered, and I get catcalled so often that I’m sure I ignore the good guys with the bad. But I’m more comfortable in an enclosed space–the grocery store, the library, etc.–and then I’m more likely to smile and go about my business. Then it’s on him to make a move, IMO.
LikeLike
Im with Jasmin…
I WILL NEVER respond to a catcall!!!!
Im more at ease with being approached in a grocery store or some other “closed” environment, school/learning settings are the best, coffee shops are always an excellent choice.
It seems like a lot of guys dont have any respect when trying to reach out to girls. A lot of women encourage bad behavior by responding positively to catcalls and smiling/thinking its cute when guys make comments like “You you have nice t*ts” or “Damn look at all that *ss”.
LikeLike
White men from the south, like thick black women. I think black women are sexy especially the darker skinned ones.
LikeLike
I honestly believe that most white men are intimidated by black women. I think one factor we are leaving out when we discuss WM and BW is AGE. I am 21. So I am very young and I am going into my second year of university. So of course the men I interact with are somewhere between 18 and maybe 23.
I am dark skinned. Maybe like Venus William’s complexion but . I notice that the WM seem to definitely notice me or give me attention when I have braids or recently a lot more since I cut off all my relaxer and grew out my natural hair, I get more attention from the WM. I notice BM giving me less attention but I think that is because I don’t have the long hair anymore and the young BM I think are really into the long hair (and I’m quite relieved because the negative attention I get from BM is a little frightening sometimes). I still get some attention from the BM but I think it is because of my body shape ( thick…curvy, a lot of butt and boobs).
The reason I said that I believe WM are intimidated is because, they NEVER approach me. They will look at me from afar. I will notice them looking but they will never approach. It’s almost like they say ‘Oh she’s pretty buuuut’ there’s so many WW there, that’s their comfort zone, I mean is it worth the energy to step out of it? They don’t really need to. I think too this is because they probably don’t know how BW would react to them maybe. Perhaps it seems like uncharted territory. This is why I think that if I see a WM with a BW then he must really be serious about her you know. And again I am referring to younger WM.
I’m not saying this is every WM of course. But I go out a lot and I live in an area that is about half white, half everybody else. So I’m always in and around WM and I find it frustrating that BM approach me without hesitation but WM don’t. I used to think it’s because I have that video ‘hoe’ body (which I have come to accept as not being a bad thing) and that they’re not attracted to that. But I know that it’s not that because WW come in all shapes and sizes as well.
I’m very open to any race, it really doesn’t matter to me. But I don’t feel that same vibe from WM at all. It is quite disappointing to me especially since I find myself more attracted to WM because (and I hate to say it) BM usually just want to sleep with me and play games with my head and it’s annoying when you really want a serious relationship AND they always tell I’m not “black” ‘on the inside’ because I’m not into hip hop or whatever. It makes sense anyway, because I am West Indian, not African-American.
I’m not saying that WM don’t have that ‘want to have sex with you’ mentality but if a WM is bypassing a room full of WW to come talk to me then I can be somewhat positive that he’s probably actually trying to get to know me.
I actually agree with the post to some extent about the two lists but I believe that more and more that kind of thinking is beginning to disappear. Everyone has their own kind of beauty according to their own features and I think most people will grow to see that eventually. I believe a lot of young WM just aren’t open to the idea of BW probably because it doesn’t occur to them as a possible reality because of the environment they are in. But I don’t think it’a bad thing that they seem drawn to BW with more Caucasoid features, that seems like a natural logical inclination. But I don’t think they are against BW with more African features either.
This post is so long I don’t even know if I’m making sense. Sorry for the essay but it is frustrating living in a country where there are predominantly WM (Canada) yet they don’t approach you very much if at all even if they find you attractive.
LikeLike
The reason I said that I believe WM are intimidated is because, they NEVER approach me. They will look at me from afar. I will notice them looking but they will never approach. It’s almost like they say ‘Oh she’s pretty buuuut’ there’s so many WW there, that’s their comfort zone, I mean is it worth the energy to step out of it? They don’t really need to. I think too this is because they probably don’t know how BW would react to them maybe. Perhaps it seems like uncharted territory. This is why I think that if I see a WM with a BW then he must really be serious about her you know. And again I am referring to younger WM.
Co- Sign…This happened to me twice today(ironically in the same room, with two men that were sitting very close to each other). They were starring me down as I walked into the room. A lot of them will look at you, hard too, but wont say anything. I don’t know why this is. Personally I know I can come off as aloof if you don’t know me. I don’t like people staring at me, when people stare at me I don’t smile I just avoid their eye contact. This is probably why these guys don’t approach me, I don’t seem interested.
However when I do smile or acknowledge them they either keep smiling and looking without making a move or quickly start a conversation.
Honesty, if you arent “doing anything wrong” its not your problem. If you look good and pleasant and they still dont acknowledge you it is their problem, not yours. Eventually one will try and get to know you but there is no need to fret over what you have no control over.
LikeLike
I’m not very good at looking disinterested in public. Probably because I smile a lot (my neutral expression is a smile)–I must look like “Hey, talk to me!” which usually sucks because I don’t want to be talked to.
White guys seem to do a lot of eye-f*cking (sorry to be crass, but I don’t know an equivalent term). Lol, it’s like look, look away, look again, look away, one more time, look away. But Seralee don’t be frustrated–try to view it as a positive. My boyfriend said he probably never would’ve approached me under different circumstances because I’m “out of his league” (which isn’t true, but I guess that’s what he’d think at first glance). So you are really just too hot–you make all the guys nervous. 😉
LikeLike
Yes they do engage in a lot of eye-f*cking… It makes me uncomfortable…
LikeLike
Seralee
The reason I said that I believe WM are intimidated is because, they NEVER approach me. They will look at me from afar. I will notice them looking but they will never approach. It’s almost like they say ‘Oh she’s pretty buuuut’ there’s so many WW there, that’s their comfort zone, I mean is it worth the energy to step out of it? They don’t really need to. I think too this is because they probably don’t know how BW would react to them maybe.
I think this must be the case. Many men don’t really know how to make the first move, and are scared of doing it. I think, with black women, they seem to think that it requires some extra skills or something.
It is quite disappointing to me especially since I find myself more attracted to WM because (and I hate to say it) BM usually just want to sleep with me and play games with my head and it’s annoying when you really want a serious relationship AND they always tell I’m not “black” ‘on the inside’ because I’m not into hip hop or whatever. It makes sense anyway, because I am West Indian, not African-American.
Sorry to hear about your experience with black men, but, eh, white men are not different in this aspect. Many of them are just looking for sex.
On the other hand, you have a full right on your interests and you can like whatever music you want to like, and someone who doesn’t respect that doesn’t respect you. End of story.
@Y
Like I said, some white men don’t know how to approach black women… I mean, they think special skills are required or something.
Now, I don’t know what they do with white women, really. Guys in my culture have a huge problem approaching girls and starting a conversation. They just stare, or approach in a very, very bad way (catcall). That’s why women in my culture are used to making the first, second, third, etc moves themselves. It’s not seen as something wrong, but there is a line that woman shouldn’t pass in order not present herself as desperate. It usually goes eye contact, smile, conversation. (He starts eye contact, either smile, but a woman starts conversation). Not always, but if helps with many guys.
LikeLike
Seralee says,
The reason I said that I believe WM are intimidated is because, they NEVER approach me. They will look at me from afar. I will notice them looking but they will never approach. It’s almost like they say ‘Oh she’s pretty buuuut’ there’s so many WW there, that’s their comfort zone, I mean is it worth the energy to step out of it? They don’t really need to.
laromana says,
Seralee, I’m an older Afrolatina woman and can tell you that I’ve experienced the “look but NEVER approach” behavior from MOST American WM all of my life. We BW are not to blame for this behavior. There is NOTHING WRONG with our body types, hair, facial expressions, etc.. and I find that MANY American WM have NO PROBLEM being attracted to/approaching other NON-WW but seem to have many EXCUSES for why they don’t approach BW the same way.
You hit the nail on the head when you said that this type of WM is probably thinking a BW is attractive but that there are many more WW and it’s MORE COMFORTABLE for him to approach them.
Y says,
A lot of them will look at you, hard too, but wont say anything.
Jasmin says,
White guys seem to do a lot of eye-f*cking (sorry to be crass, but I don’t know an equivalent term). Lol, it’s like look, look away, look again, look away, one more time, look away.
laromana says,
As I’ve said before, I’ve experienced/continue to experience this ABNORMAL behavior (look, look away, look again, look away, one more time, look away) from MANY American WM and over time I’ve come to view this as evidence of widespread ANTI-BW COWARDICE on the part of the WM who do it. If a WM is attracted to a BW and he would NORMALLY approach any other NON-WW, there’s no LOGICAL reason why he shouldn’t approach the BW.
Jasmin, your boyfriend may have thought you were “out of his league” but, ultimately, he did take the step to approach you and that’s what ANY man who wants to get to know a BW needs to do.
Y says,
Yes they do engage in a lot of eye-f*cking… It makes me uncomfortable…
laromana says,
Y, I believe that the MANY WM who do this to BW need to know that this behavior disrespects a BW’s dignity/femininity. If these WM would NORMALLY APPROACH a WW/OTHER NON-WW, he’s attracted to but doesn’t do so when the woman is Black there’s something wrong with him and he needs to stop the “staring games”.
Y says,
However when I do smile or acknowledge them they either keep smiling and looking without making a move or quickly start a conversation.
Honesty, if you arent “doing anything wrong” its not your problem. If you look good and pleasant and they still dont acknowledge you it is their problem, not yours.
laromana says,
Seralee, what Y says here is key. If a man of ANY RACE is attracted to a BW he should be willing to approach/talk to her once she positively acknowledges him and if he doesn’t it’s HIS PROBLEM not yours. BW are not ALIENS but NORMAL HUMAN WOMEN and we deserve to be treated that way.
LikeLike
I agree with Laromana. Seralee, any guy who’s that dodgy before he even meets you is going to be the same way in a relationship, so you don’t want him anyway. I’ve found that the “nerdy guys” are the best kind–often somewhat unpopular in high school, they don’t seem to worry about “image” as much as other guys do (and honestly, some of them are so used to getting rejected that the color of the woman doing it is no big shock). Plus they grow up to be really hot. 😉 Per my boyfriend, one returned look (i.e., he looks, you look back) should be enough–if he’s hesitant after that then he’s not worth your time. Those who want it bad enough will come after it.
LikeLike
I live in Britain and I would say my experience is slightly different. you do still get guys that don’t approach you but i think that’s just because of my shyness and I sometimes find it hard to make eye contact with a strange guy I find cute but more often than not whenever I smile or talk to guy I get asked out.
Here black women and white men relationships are just as common as white women black men relationships and there isn’t really much of a black community here in my experience. People are more integrated but it does need some more work
LikeLike
Jasmin:
“Probably because I smile a lot (my neutral expression is a smile)–”
That is so nice…..
Jasmin :
“I’m out of his league ”
Your definitly out of my league, Jasmin
LikeLike
Y, I think I have a similar experience, in that, I am introverted and I do seem a bit aloof or even unfriendly but I am extremely shy and that’s the way I deal with my shyness.
And yes I agree with everyone. I shouldn’t be so stressed out about it in theory. I just have to convince myself not to be annoyed about it.
@ Mira, who said,
“Sorry to hear about your experience with black men, but, eh, white men are not different in this aspect. Many of them are just looking for sex.”
I say,
I hope I don’t seem like a BM hater because I am not, but I know the kind of BM I ALWAYS attract. Yes, there are WM who also behave like this, I know. It is not singular to one race. But, I feel like a lot of the young BM assume this culture that they see on tv, that they are supposed to “players” and have a lot of girls and a lot of sex and have “good game” and somehow this proves their “manliness”.
I don’t have any experience outside of relationships with BM and I do want to step out of the box. This is why I am frustrated sometimes because I’m willing to try something different but I don’t know that I see that willingness being reciprocated.
Anyway, I guess I’m just venting because it feels good to do so in a forum where I am understood in some way. My best friend is from Hong Kong and she doesn’t quite understand what I mean when I say these things lol. 🙂
LikeLike
And thanks Jasmin for the encouragement! 😉
LikeLike
I’ve found that the “nerdy guys” are the best kind–often somewhat unpopular in high school, they don’t seem to worry about “image” as much as other guys do.
Plus they grow up to be really hot. 😉 Per my boyfriend, one returned look (i.e., he looks, you look back) should be enough–if he’s hesitant after that then he’s not worth your time. Those who want it bad enough will come after it.
Yes, nerds are usually fine as hell. However I must admit I am crushing on a wrestler that lives on my floor. Super hot, buff, and smart (electrical engineering major). He’s a complete jock but he is very nice. HE talked to ME first and he is very easy to talk to.
Seralee:
I completely understand… I am shy too and can come off uncaring but once people get to know they quickly realize I am very sweet. I think there is a little give and take. You should be more willing to make eye contact but you should not have to change your personality (introvert) and go out of you way to attract white guys. You may prefer them but do know they are not all that special, they are men just like black, Asian, Hispanic ect men.
LikeLike
Sorry I dont mean to come off like Im preaching to you Seralee, its just I dont want BW getting the impression that they need to “do extra” to get a white guy. Its not that crucial… If you are generally attractive(you attract all kinds of quality men) you shouldn’t feel like something is wrong with you because most whites don’t approach you. Its there problem, not yours.
The ones that are genuinely interested in you will make an effort the rest aren’t worth stressing over.
LikeLike
B.R.,
Lol, my boyfriend said some of his friends were asking about me (we live in different states, so they haven’t seen me since March): if we are still together, when I’m coming back, etc. Then one goes, “I’m glad things are good because that girl is hot! How did you get her? Definitely out of your league.” I’m not gonna lie; I cracked up at that. All of his friends are these eclectic musician types, and I don’t fit in with the usual “hipster girls” who hang out there, so I guess I stick out. 🙂
Y,
Whoo! Now, no one said nerdy guys couldn’t be buff and athletic too. 😉 I just realized I had to give up the basketball and football players. But swimmers and wrestlers are really nice.
LikeLike
@ Y.
It’s okay lol. You didn’t come across preachy at all. And no I don’t feel like changing my personality or doing extra at all. I don’t believe I should have to. I definitely wouldn’t say I have a preference for WM, it’s just I know there are more WM than men of any other race where I live and interact so it seems more frustrating than it should. Hahaha I like how you said they are not all that special or more special than any other type of guy and I do agree.
LikeLike
4 some reason…and i’m not a wm worshipper but for some reason I really like that picture…nice pick abagond
LikeLike
I recently relocated to the Atlanta area. It seems whether a WM approaches you may have to due with local culture. Al least once a week while taking the train in the DC area, a WM would tell me I’m beautiful. I don’t know any woman who can’t appreciate that!
Here I seem to have fallen into the relm of the unapproachable. Men don’t approach me here.
As for the complaint of some of you have about “old white men” hitting on you, I hear the same complaint from young white women. Most of these men are recently divorced and feel they have something to prove.
LikeLike
Jasmin “these eclectic musician types ”
that definitly explains it, Jasmin…..
Luna ” I hear the same complaint from young white women. Most of these men are recently divorced and feel they have something to prove.”
Yeah, and , their viagra perscription came through….
Watch out for old white men with viagra , a force more frightening than teenage testerone….
Where do you all think sexual attractions goes in old men? They may look old and wrinkled on the outside, but, on the inside they think they are 15 (yeah , lets make it clear “they ” could absolutly never be mistaken for “me” , after all, I would never in my life take a glance at a woman in a string bikini 10 or more years younger than me….absolutly never!!)
LikeLike
natanya: I think it is very obvious that like dania ramirez, christina milian and rosario dawson zoe saldana is mulatta or black latina. she either falls in the black or latin category and also acknowledges that she is part black and has had interviews for black magazines such as essence.
LATINO IS NOT A RACE-PERHAPS AN ETHNICITY
LikeLike
to further explain my theory of what most but not all black and white men prefer…
black men in my experience tend to prefer a woman who is curvy likes to wear sassy clothing that shows off her figure and is also confident or coveys a sense of standing out in the crowd. people like this would be amber rose, eve, trina, fergie, melyssa ford, jlo, and kim kardashian ( what she maybe lacks in confidence she makes up for in sassy style)
with white men they normally prefer a woman who is slim and attractive but don’t seem to care as much about sense of style (if they do they prefer more classic or preppy style to sassy) as black men. they like someone who is nice and bubbly, but not too overbearing , attention seeking or sassy, most white men find that intimidating.
examples of women like this are iman, thandie newton, kelly brook, kristen kreuk and jessica alba.
ofcourse not all white or black men fit the above. there are some black men who would rather go for a classy iman or gwyneth paltrow type and i know a white guy who finds thandie newton boring, but has the hots for trina, so not all are the same.
definition of sassy: possessing the attitude of someone endowed with an ungodly amount of cool
swagger: How one presents him or her self to the world. Swagger is shown from how the person handles a situation. It can also be shown in the person’s walk and style
LikeLike
Latino is just a stupid term U.S. Americans came up with to articulate a supposedly essential difference between U.S. Americans and everyone to the south of them.
LikeLike
Zoe Saldana says she is a mujer negra, a black woman. When Dominicans tell her no, she is trigueñita, (wheat-coloured), she answers, “I am a black woman.”
LikeLike
@ Jennifer on “sassy”, etc:
Interesting way of looking at it. Speaking for myself I most certainly prefer women who are curvy and have a mind of their own. I cannot see myself seriously going with a thin woman while “bubbly” makes me want to throw up.
LikeLike
Oh, and what about thin woman with mind of her own, as the opposite of thick, but unintelligent woman? 😉 (And what does bubbly even mean?)
LikeLike
I wouldnt mind having a “perky” woman around me everyday, I just dont think one exists……
LikeLike
“bubbly” means “perky”, Mira
LikeLike
My SO loathes bubbly women. He’ll look at me like “Stop, please” if I smile or laugh more than once in 10 min. So I don’t think that fits for all white men. He does prefer classic/preppy clothing over loud.
I don’t see Thandie Newton (or Iman) as bubbly; her personality is more like mine: withdrawn and somewhat aloof, yet kind.
LikeLike
Mira:
Having a mind of her own does not make up for thin but neither does curvy make up for bubbly either.
Bubbly means a woman who always seems to be smiling and laughing but does not to seem to have much of a serious mind.
LikeLike
Abagond,
So does “bubbly” = “ditzy”?
I admit to smiling and laughing a lot (probably smiling > laughing), but I’ve never had people think I couldn’t be serious. To the contrary, I’m one of those “she don’t play” types, lol.
LikeLike
“Latino is just a stupid term U.S. Americans came up with to articulate a supposedly essential difference between U.S. Americans and everyone to the south of them.”
I think it may be more complicated than that. I see the Latino term as a sort of leveling mechanism for Latin American immigrants. Because the word is used to refer to all those from south of the border, light-skinned Hispanics are often hindered in their adoption of a white American identity. At the same time, Hispanics with significant amounts of African and/or Amerind ancestry are able to avoid identification with either one of these disadvantaged groups. Hence, the ubiquity of the Latino term in American parlance acts to push all Hispanics to a middle-level social status. It is surely the case then that this vocabulary has a large number of “Latino” supporters.
LikeLike
Some have noted that the Hispanic category functions as as a de facto mixed race designation for those of Latin origins. One can only hope that an even more inclusive categorization scheme will be developed and that American racialist dogmas (hypodescent, one drop rule, binary classifications) will fall away over time.
LikeLike
FG,
I doubt it, because the designation of “mixed race” depends entirely on what you look like, not what your racial makeup is. Ask Skip Gates.
LikeLike
Luna says,
As for the complaint of some of you have about “old white men” hitting on you, I hear the same complaint from young white women. Most of these men are recently divorced and feel they have something to prove.
laromana says,
The main difference between older American WM approaching a younger WW and an older American WM approaching a younger BW is that MANY older American DISCRIMINATED AGAINST BW when they were younger and feel ENTITLED to a relationship with younger BW now that they’re OLDER.
jennifer says,
LATINO IS NOT A RACE-PERHAPS AN ETHNICITY
laromana says,
Although Latino is not a race, it is a respected/meaningful descriptor that is/has been used by Spanish speaking persons of Afro/Spanish or Indigenous/Spanish (or other mixed race Spanish) descent and/or culture.
LikeLike
I cannot see myself seriously going with a thin woman while “bubbly” makes me want to throw up.
LMAO thats harsh.
I don’t see Thandie Newton (or Iman) as bubbly; her personality is more like mine: withdrawn and somewhat aloof, yet kind.
Co sign on Iman. She has a regal beauty/demeanor, she makes her presence known without uttering a word. I cant imaging her being extra bubbly and all in your face. She seems like a clam, cool collected woman with a sultry voice. More sexy/sophisticated than bubbly and fun loving…Maybe Im romanticizing her a bit too much but she comes of that way, very worldly.
I dont know about Thandie though…I think I say one interview and she came off bubbly but not ditz..
LikeLike
FG says,
I think it may be more complicated than that. I see the Latino term as a sort of leveling mechanism for Latin American immigrants. Because the word is used to refer to all those from south of the border, light-skinned Hispanics are often hindered in their adoption of a white American identity. At the same time, Hispanics with significant amounts of African and/or Amerind ancestry are able to avoid identification with either one of these disadvantaged groups. Hence, the ubiquity of the Latino term in American parlance acts to push all Hispanics to a middle-level social status. It is surely the case then that this vocabulary has a large number of “Latino” supporters.
laromana says,
As a member of the Latino community I can tell you that MOST Latinos didn’t/don’t choose to label themselves as Latinos for the purpose of adhering to North American racial labeling practices. Latinos come to America with their own distinct cultures/customs and its the RACIST/RACE OBSESSED American society that seeks to impose its NARROW MINDED/IGNORANT racial labeling standards on them.
LikeLike
Jasmin , I love “ditzy” women, ……………………………..
LikeLike
For those of you who dont love “bubbly”, “ditzy” or “perky “, your monday morning conversations over breakfast must be just charming…….
LikeLike
“I cannot see myself seriously going with a thin woman while “bubbly” makes me want to throw up.”
Yeah, Y, when I read that I was like “nice”.
LikeLike
BR,
I am a morning person (lol, my friends always get on me for smiling on Mondays), but definitely not a ditz. More social butterfly meets smarty-pants. 🙂
LikeLike
bubbly can be interpreted as chirpy, happy, ditzy, silly it all depends on how you want to see it. as for the above comment about the personality of iman and thandie newton, bubbliness aside I think that white men usually prefer a polite woman who is not too loud or sassy. I think more white than black men would prefer the personality and presence of thandie newton.
LikeLike
Y,
“I dont know about Thandie though…I think I say one interview and she came off bubbly but not ditz..”
I think the bubbly thing is an act to be seen as more personable; I do it at times too. People tend to think you are rude or unfeeling if you don’t engage with them in a warm manner, especially so if you are female.
B.R.,
“For those of you who dont love “bubbly”, “ditzy” or “perky “, your monday morning conversations over breakfast must be just charming.”
Lol. My morning conversations with my SO are great. We discuss current events, future plans, etc. No need to be bubbly. He’s pretty (read: very) deadpan anyway, so a bubbly person would just be awkward in relation to him.
LikeLike
Thanks for the explanation of bubbly. I get it now.
I don’t see Thandie Newton (or Iman) as bubbly. Actually, I don’t think I can remember any famous black bubbly woman. I guess I discovered another stereotype I have to get rid of.
I don’t know, to me, the epitome of a “bubbly” female is character of Jacy from “The Last Picture Show” (as played by young Cybill Shepherd). Don’t forget, that girl is basically a mean %^##$ So, I guess there’s something in me that dislikes that type of women. They seem fake. Being optimistic and loving people is good, but nobody can smile all the time while not showing any sing of actual mind.
Having a mind of her own does not make up for thin but neither does curvy make up for bubbly either.
Oh, don’t pretend you didn’t understand my question! 😀 I asked you to choose between thick bubbly woman and thin intelligent woman.
LikeLike
“As a member of the Latino community I can tell you that MOST Latinos didn’t/don’t choose to label themselves as Latinos for the purpose of adhering to North American racial labeling practices. Latinos come to America with their own distinct cultures/customs and its the RACIST/RACE OBSESSED American society that seeks to impose its NARROW MINDED/IGNORANT racial labeling standards on them.”
Correct, race isn’t as central in Latin American societies as it is in the US. I think there’s a combination of motivations, though.
LikeLike
jennifer,
“…bubbliness aside I think that white men usually prefer a polite woman who is not too loud or sassy. I think more white than black men would prefer the personality and presence of thandie newton.”
I guess I can cosign that. Although I’ve had many black men approach me specifically because I wasn’t loud. I don’t think fondness for politeness knows racial boundaries, but I’ll agree that black Americans tend to have more of an appreciation for extraversion.
LikeLike
“I doubt it, because the designation of ‘mixed race’ depends entirely on what you look like, not what your racial makeup is. Ask Skip Gates.”
The designations “black” and “white” also depend entirely on what you look like.
LikeLike
Mira:
I would choose thin and intelligent over curvy and bubbly. I do see bubbly as being fake and it is hard for me to get along with people like that.
LikeLike
Mira,
“I don’t see Thandie Newton (or Iman) as bubbly. Actually, I don’t think I can remember any famous black bubbly woman.”
I was listening to this interview with Kelly Rowland (of Destiny’s Child) once and she sure seemed very bubbly. But it could have been nerves. Also, Aisha Tyler is probably perceived as bubbly or cheery, but maybe not ditzy.
LikeLike
FG says,
Correct, race isn’t as central in Latin American societies as it is in the US. I think there’s a combination of motivations, though.
laromana says,
That’s your opinion as an outsider, not a FACT.
LikeLike
natasha w: i’m sure there are black men that like a woman who is less the centre of attention. However it seems like more black men would prefer to date say amber rose than thandie newton. but i don’t think most white men would want more than sex from an amber rose type.
LikeLike
O K Jasmin and Natasha
Actualy, I think the “perky”, “ditzy”, “bubbly” creature who is like that all the time doesnt exist….I just think I would like it…..ahhhhhhh
I just know I like my wife a lot more when she is warm and fuzzy in the morning than all business, serious and introspective or critical and cynical and angry…
I really apreciete a woman who likes to laugh or makes the effort to be charming (making an effort to be charming when things are not the best , or , when feeling angry inside, is not being phony to me, its being considerate of the people around you)…the same way I like working with people who can laugh and be polite instead of critical or angry or brutaly honest and game playing and hiarcial
Ill tell you, two people who look at each other across the dinner table with serious looks and no phonyness and being for real and brutaly honest night after night are going to be at each others throats in a few years…..
Jasmin, all bright and chipper , with get up and go on a monday morning, that is cool !!
LikeLike
B.R.,
I only learned about the word yesterday, but I don’t see “bubbly etc” as being a warm, positive and charming being. It’s more about hiding what’s inside in order to appear “nice and feminine” (in lack of better terms), in order to present yourself as a friendly and gain sympathy… But without actually revealing anything about yourself OR your true feelings. Also, this type of women are often afraid to speak their mind and say only what they believe others want to hear; they say only things that won’t spoil their perfect image.
Look, I am friendly and all, but when I’m in a crappy mood, I’m in a crappy mood. It doesn’t mean I’ll be rude to you, but don’t expect any cheerful small talk from my part.
LikeLike
Well, maybe there is not some set in stone definition for bubbly
But, Ill relate it to people I work with. The absolute coolest people Ive ever worked for could keep you laughing and up and feeling good , even if you were under severe hardships .
And the ones that you couldnt expect any cheerful small talk from them if they were in a bad mood, could make it a long night…..
But, Mira, of course in a relationship you are going to see all sides of a person. I just dont see any thing wrong if a woman has a personality that tries to take dificult life situations and can keep their philosophy and composure in tact and even joke and laugh at it. Im not talking about taking abuse from a partner, Im talking about facing the hardships of life.
Ok, I know what I just described in a woman is almost imposible….In a man too…
LikeLike
Actualy, I think the “perky”, “ditzy”, “bubbly” creature who is like that all the time doesnt exist….I just think I would like it…..ahhhhhhh
God, that would drive me nuts.
LikeLike
FG,
Well duh, but it makes no sense to promote moving to a new system as better if it would basically do the same thing: classify people by phenotype.
LikeLike
I think the negative definitions of “bubbly” here seem more like “cloying” or “fake” to me. Those are the people (usually women) who laugh a bit too loudly, have their voices go up when they speak (I think it’s supposed to be endearing, but it usually sounds slightly patronizing), and try to be super helpful, but just so people will notice, not because they are naturally so.
LikeLike
“Well duh, but it makes no sense to promote moving to a new system as better if it would basically do the same thing: classify people by phenotype.”
“Race” should just be thought of as a simple description of a person’s physical appearance, like it is in other countries. It shouldn’t be considered the be-all and end-all of a person (i.e. an indication of their values, politics, and culture). It shouldn’t be treated as a big deal and individuals ought to be free to describe themselves how they wish. That’s my view.
LikeLike
Marilyn Monroe would be considered bubbly in a lot of her movie roles. 🙂
LikeLike
FG,
I, and most people I associate with, would agree with you to the extent that I don’t believe race is just a physical descriptor, because it is an indicator of relative privilege, but being Black doesn’t mean you like rap (I don’t), being Asian doesn’t mean you are docile, and so on, but a person’s race doesn’t tell me about his personality, political beliefs, etc. If you hang with people who don’t think so, lose their numbers. 🙂
LikeLike
“I, and most people I associate with, would agree with you to the extent that I don’t believe race is just a physical descriptor, because it is an indicator of relative privilege, but being Black doesn’t mean you like rap (I don’t), being Asian doesn’t mean you are docile, and so on, but a person’s race doesn’t tell me about his personality, political beliefs, etc. If you hang with people who don’t think so, lose their numbers.”
ALOT of people of all colors think that way, though.
In any case, demanding that people be identified based on invisible ancestry is undesirable for two reasons. First, thiose individuals will face social difficulties as a result of being assigned to a “race” they don’t look like. Second, it implies that “race” is something more than skin deep.
LikeLike
FG,
But what does what “a lot of people” think have to do with you? If you don’t like people who think that way, don’t be bothered with them. If you (the general you) say a lot of people do X and don’t disassociate yourself from said people, that’s just whiny. And worrying about hypothetical people who might think X is just unnecessarily self-flagellating.
Seems like you need to make up your mind: first you say segue from something about Latinos to promoting new racial categorizations, then when it’s pointed out that wouldn’t have different outcomes you say it’s a bad idea. So which is it? It looks like you just disagreed with yourself…?
LikeLike
FG,
But what does what “a lot of people” think have to do with you? If you don’t like people who think that way, don’t be bothered with them. If you (the general you) say a lot of people do X and don’t disassociate yourself from said people, that’s just whiny. And worrying about hypothetical people who might think X is just unnecessarily self-flagellating.
Seems like you need to make up your mind: first you say segue from something about Latinos to promoting new racial categorizations, then when it’s pointed out that it wouldn’t have different outcomes you say it’s a bad idea. So which is it? It looks like you just disagreed with yourself…?
LikeLike
the model in that picture is cute…the guy, the woman is pretty. that’s a really interesting picture, i don’t know why i like looking at it so much, maybe its cuz of the white guy’s tie
LikeLike
i don’t know what yall mean by “bubbly,” smiling all the time…what is wrong with that? I like people who are genuinely happy…
LikeLike
Yeah, Peanut, what is wrong with bubbly or smiling all the time…?
I first look at myself and how I behave to my loved ones. I have a lot angers inside me and frustrations in life and decades of humiliations to wake up , remembering , bombarding my brain every morning.
Ive decided I just dont want to put that on my loved ones as they wake up. To me, that is selfish, to put my bad mood on others. Of course, if they put theirs on me, it taps into my angers and frustrations and I just dish it back.
If people wake up around each other, being cynical and in a bad mood, it spreads quickly and it leads to bickering and bad feelings.Of course its up to people to perceive someone is having a hard time and not push them into being angry
Actualy, my son has more issues about this than my wife, but I would hardly define her as bubbly everyday. I just apreciete it when I see her making an effort to not take her bad mood out on me , and progect a smile, and she doesnt succeed at that all the time (Ive been through maybe close to 300 pre menstral episodes with her and for sure they arnt bubbly).
But , my son will wake up cynicle and critisizing and then wonders why we start clashing (these kind of people can never understand that they started the mood, they can dish it out but cant take it). We have talked about it and are working on it. But, these “lets be for real and express our bad moods”, only lead to built up angers and bickering that can really get out of hand over time , and just lead to people in the long run , not wanting to live together.
If Marilyn Monroe in Seven Year Itch would be described as bubbly, I think that is cool, because her charactor projected that it was her true personality.For sure it was kind of a fantacy , but, I do know men and women who can make people feel good to be around them, and , for sure its not racial.
Phoniness to me is telling lies and smiling while you do it.
LikeLike
To me, when Im around people who think they have to be “real”, and can be negative and cynical and critical, it just puts me on the defensive . I have to put up walls, and, not express things that I would with people who can be more up beat and humorous and laugh in the face of the every day hard struggle. When I start putting up the defences, that is not being for real , in my eyes.
Its funny, I remember very well a secratary at a company I was doing business with, who was just so bubbly when I would arrive, she was up beat, humorous and flirty , and, just made me feel good for those little moments I would be in their office . She happened to be black, but, its just interesting that after all these years I can remember how good she made me feel just from her being flirty and bubbly.
I remember some great leaders I worked for who also just kept us laughing for the whole tour. Ive worked with plenty of negative, cynical ,angry, critical leaders, but, I fondly remember this guy and how much it was a pleasure to work for him .
LikeLike
Well, I guess you do like bubbly behaviour. Nothing wrong with that. However, I find it annoying.
(Oh, and there’s gotta be male version of it!)
AO is right, Marilyn Monroe in her roles is a good example. I used Cybil Shepard, but she’s a better example, I think.
LikeLike
A male version would be Mario Lopez, which in that case, I find it quite sexy.;)
He is a talker and very animated and “bubbly”. Me, I’m more laid back. More like Sade. People tell me that I have a quiet confidence.
Jasmin,
You look like the “bubbly” type.lol There is nothing wrong with that! Like B.R. said, you never know when you will brighten someone’s day.
LikeLike
Ooh, Islandgirl, you lost me with Mario Lopez. He gives me a smarmy vibe, probably because of some of the more sordid details about his personal life, and he’s too pretty for me.
You seem like the quiet, poised type. Makes sense you’d be a model.
I’ll need to ask my friends if I’m bubbly. In social situations, I think I’m pretty outgoing, but in class, I’m pretty serious.
LikeLike
Really?! hmm. I’ve never received a sleazy vibe from him. I don’t know about those sorid details, so that’s probably why. I recently saw him in an interview and he was very animated, that’s how I came to that conclusion. He is pretty though.lol He may be too for some. But most love his dimples.:)
Maybe your friends have an entirely different impression of you, since they know you best. What were you considered in high school? I would picture popular, maybe the student body president?
LikeLike
I am completely uninterested in pretty boys–that’s why I couldn’t vote for Will Demps in the poll, though he’s probably the best looking of all the “prettys”. 😉 I like a harder look, square jaws and such.
I was pretty popular, but no I wasn’t the student body president. 🙂
I was in the band,on the math team, in the Psychology club, played JV tennis, and the Vice President of the Spanish National Honor Society. I think I was known as “one of the smart girls”, though unlike most people in the band, I didn’t hang with just band kids. So when I left the band Senior year I didn’t have the rough transition some did, because I had plenty of friends in other groups. My high school didn’t really have a “popular crowd”, just people considered popular. I think the only reason I got in was because I knew a lot of people, because I don’t think Mathletes are usually at the top of the heap. 🙂
LikeLike
Islandgirl and Jasmin…….I could listen to you all talk all day……
LikeLike
Lol, we are way off of the topic of “Black women that White men like”, but since we are Black and you are White does that count? 🙂
LikeLike
Jasmin
YES!!
Islandgirl, I actualy think we can take your laid back aproach for a Sunday afternoon, with Peanuts referance to people that like to smile and then go out for dinner with Jasmin’s upbeat aproach…
How is that for a wonderful day?
I can live with all those aproaches….
(I actualy dont think Jasmin is “ditsy”, more like “upbeat” )
LikeLike
Well,I ADORE buxom Latinas,beginning with my first crush,Raquel Welch,through today’s Adriana Lima,and Daisy Fuentes and Salma
Hayek of the recent past.
LikeLike
Jasmin,
We seem to have a habit of doing that.lol Your right, at least there is SOME connection to the topic.
B.R.,
I love how you appreciate all types of women. Sometimes I think that men try to “overcompensate” in efforts to prove their sexuality. But, I’ve found real “hetro’s” enjoy women – period.
LikeLike
Islandgirl, how could I not apreciate the diologue going on here with intelligent fine looking women that participate on Abagonds blog ?
There are a lot of women on here who havent ceased to amaze me , and, Ive gotten some great insights .
Being in my profesion (but, especialy when I expanded outside of male only jazz groups into playing for dance classes and theater groups ) has put me closer to women on lots of intimite levals and has taught me a lot. And I needed it since Im one of seven brothers and no sisters.
I guess when I was playing percusion for a lot of dance classes, I really started to get that there were women who were stronger than I am….
I never had any doubts if women were smarter than me or not………………………………………..(smile)
LikeLike
“Actualy, my son has more issues about this than my wife, but I would hardly define her as bubbly everyday. I just apreciete it when I see her making an effort to not take her bad mood out on me , and progect a smile, and she doesnt succeed at that all the time (Ive been through maybe close to 300 pre menstral episodes with her and for sure they arnt bubbly).
But , my son will wake up cynicle and critisizing and then wonders why we start clashing (these kind of people can never understand that they started the mood, they can dish it out but cant take it). We have talked about it and are working on it. But, these “lets be for real and express our bad moods”, only lead to built up angers and bickering that can really get out of hand over time , and just lead to people in the long run , not wanting to live together.”
Hmmm … perhaps it would be a good idea to have him see a therapist of some sort? I don’t know how that would be regarded in Brazil, but it seems like a common response to such a situation in the US these days.
LikeLike
B.R.,
I hope you don’t think I’m ditzy! No one’s ever labelled me that before, but I still need to survey my friends for an accurate reading of my personality. 🙂
LikeLike
A woman who acted in real life as Marilyn Monroe did in her films would quickly have me reaching for the “mergency Escape buttom.
As a member of the Latino community…
There’s a latino community….?
LikeLike
Jasmin, I mixed up the words “bubbly” with “ditzy” , and, I was reffering that I didnt think you were that way…you are more “upbeat”….that is how I would describe you (for sure cyberly, because that is the only way I know you…).
F G The subject has been raised with him , before, and sluffed off.I dont think its much greater than a lot of other young people and how they feel its ok to complain around their parents.Its not like its knock down drag out fights . We talk it through, he is my partner , my right hand man, so , we have great incentive to make it work…
Im speaking of an ideal world Id like to live in , where my son heaps reams of gratefulness and respect on me , and , my wife would be perky all day…..
Thad, how do you know that the charactor that Marilyn plays wouldnt be reaching for the “megency escape button ” to get away from you…….hades, I think I would…
LikeLike
in reality, marilyn monroe was actually pretty intelligent though. she was pro-civil rights and good friends w/ dorothy dandridge.
LikeLike
Good point, Peanut, that is why I always say the charactor she is playing, which would be kind of a fantacy , anyway, especialy stuff like “The Seven Year Itch “…
Jasmin, any word I would use to describe you would never have a negative conotation at all, you have a lot going on…..
LikeLike
Haha, thanks BR. 🙂
I still don’t think I’m cheery enough to be bubbly. In high school some of my guy friends said I would’ve made a good cheerleader, and I told them I don’t have nearly enough “school spirit.” 😉
LikeLike
Thad, how do you know that the charactor that Marilyn plays wouldnt be reaching for the “megency escape button ” to get away from you…….hades, I think I would…
B.R., she can look out for herself. it`s my job to look out for me.
in reality, marilyn monroe was actually pretty intelligent though. she was pro-civil rights and good friends w/ dorothy dandridge.
Yep. Which is why I mentioned her characters and not herself.
LikeLike
Looking at the first lot of pictures “the one white men would date” is actually for me the opposite. The lower section of women is what I see more with white men.
I have travelled a lot and seen especially Europeans who marry Africans, most of them have raw african looks and not a hint of mix like the women in your pictures. So yes and no, they all do not go for that ‘european’ look women.
If you visit africa, cities like Nairobi you will trully see what I mean.
LikeLike
Ever since Good Times allowed Thelma to walk onto my TV screen in the seventies I have honestly been in love with Black women. As a white male and being one year away from 40, the attraction hasn’t stopped, i am married and i my wife of 12 years is not white, making our 3 kids the beautiful. I admit a constant attraction to black women that white women have not held over me, i can’t work it out, so i don’t try, for their is not anything to work out, thats just me and it is completely normal, though living in Australia seems to have a totally different set of hang ups on Race in comparison to the US. In the early eighties it was Vanity & Ray Dawn Chong, followed by Lisa Bonet’ and they would seem to be on the lighter side of some afro american women some might argue? They were definately high profile upto 1985, Salt n’ peppa never did it for me, but Dawnn Lewis on a different world did, so on and so on. But i find Jil Scott absolutelt beautiful, Aissa Maiga incredibly captivating, the deviding point for me is that a beautiful women can become totally unattractive to me because of there manner, morals, behaviour and importantly their speech ……… i love ladies, ladies who are intelligent, focused, good conversationalists, informed, able to enjoy quiet times, lovers of good music and art, ones that eat my cooking 🙂 Men i think wrestle between being Men and little boys, they look for excitement and they desire comfort, the notions and associated feelings of freedom and committment run deep as well, the two in constant battle, a man can either think with his appendage or his head and rarely both at the same time, I as a child looked to what i wanted and now hold onto what i need, looking at beautiful black women gives me a huge appetite, but i never fail to eat at home!
LikeLike
I’m a white guy that dates black women exclusively, and I’m shocked you included Bria Myles in the “would not date” list.
I’d date Bria Myles in a heartbeat, I think she’s drop dead gorgeous, cute as hell, and from interviews I read of her online she seems to have an awesome personality. 🙂
I hope I’m not rehashing any stereotypes, but when it comes to black women, for me “the blacker, the better”. I don’t buy into the whole “lighter is more attractive” nonsense.
Also, I notice you said most white men like small booties on black women, not true. I love a big booty, and that’s why I love women like Bria Myles and Esther Baxter. 🙂
LikeLike
Don,
Again, a black woman is reduced to a booty. I think it’s to a point subconciously when people think of black women, they instinctively think of a behind.
And I don’t think “blacker is better” no more than I think “lighter is better”. That is divisive and we are all still BLACK.
LikeLike
Permit me to say this, but I think the main problem with this article is the fact there will always be white men who like women in the second group. The problem starts when they try to explain why they like them.
Islandgirl, I am sure you know most of the white men like thin women.
LikeLike
Mira,
I’m still not sure that I’m convinced. I know in Serbia that occurs. But here, I don’t think that men necessarily do. I think people think that they do because of “the media”.
LikeLike
Well, it happens in my part of the world because of media. I do think that white men, in general, prefer thin women. Not every single white man, of course, and what is considered “thin” varies from culture to culture, but it;s the general trend, I believe.
LikeLike
islandgirl,
“And I don’t think “blacker is better” no more than I think “lighter is better”. That is divisive and we are all still BLACK.”
Amen.
While I like to see all forms of black beauty appreciated, none is inherently better than others.
“Islandgirl, I am sure you know most of the white men like thin women.
——-
I’m still not sure that I’m convinced. I know in Serbia that occurs. But here, I don’t think that men necessarily do. I think people think that they do because of “the media”.
I agree with Mira. I wouldn’t say all white men like thin women, but the majority, maybe 75 percent, do. In my experience. Whenever my SO or his friends (“average white guys”) point out a black woman, or a woman in general, they think is atractive, she is usually on the thinner side (bigger breasts are a plus). Southern white men would be the exception to this — some seem to like a more full-figured woman.
LikeLike
Hmmm, maybe my perspective is different. Because everytime I see a guy look at a woman, she is larger. But Natasha, you may be right, my location may have a lot to do with it.
LikeLike
Natasha, you’re also right about color. I would like to see all appreciated as well. But I think Don and men/people like him think that they are scoring points or being noble by saying this, when the most noble thing you could do is appreciate all types. Or at least don’t downplay/degrade one for another.
LikeLike
And I don’t think “blacker is better” no more than I think “lighter is better”. That is divisive and we are all still BLACK.
Cosign
Southern white men would be the exception to this — some seem to like a more full-figured woman.
Nope the white men here prefer thin women, big breast is a plus. The only men who prefers thick women here are mostly blacks or latinos but they would still date someone who is thin.
LikeLike
islandgirl, are the men you see white or black?
leaveum, you’re in Texas right? I should have said Southeast, instead of just South. I only have secondhand experiences with the Southwest.
LikeLike
Islandgirl you are a beautiful woman. Don’t worry yourself about what these men think. Its obvious that some of the men in your area are either homosexual or intimidated by you. Some men when they see a woman who has herself together (intelligence wise and appearance wise) they tend to get intimidated because they know they would have to step their game up in order to get and keep a woman like that.
LikeLike
Leaveumthinking,
Thank you so much for your comment! Yeah, I try not to worry over what these men think. But I think that as woman, if you don’t have their approval (especially based on appearance), we’re taught to think that something is wrong with us.
In regard to your latter comment, I think that most of the women here share that in common. If a man doesn’t want to put in the effort, he is not worth anything anyways. Maybe it’s a good thing to inheriently weed them out.
I really do appreciate your input. It’s good when we are willing to support each other and not be bothered with divisiveness of any kind.
LikeLike
Im with you, Island girl, all shapes and sizes and shades are beautiful.
Ive described before that a woman with a small shaply booty can have a really nice dimple on the cheek and rising inner cheek symetry attractiveness.
Girls who may think they arnt thick , may look really good in a string bikini. Many shapes of women look good in a string bikini because it lets things flow more honestly.
LikeLike
B.R., you crack me up thinking about string bikini’s and talking about cheek symetry. That’s new to me.lol
LikeLike
Well, my husband is white. And I am a light skinned woman. I have learned over time, that I am more attracted to white men, but that doesn’t mean to say that I don’t find black men attractive. Honestly, it just seems typical that I have more common interests with white men. We all know that is a large foundation for dating. I am sure that there are black men that I would share interests with, but they never have the physical attraction that is necessary. I listen to rock, i snowboard, and I tend to speak quite properly. I know that black women can speak properly, but the higher percentage do not. When it all boils down to it, it is who you share a connection with. It really shouldnt matter if they are black or blue. But if one happens to black and the other white; then so be it. Let’s applaud love in all colors! Including rainbows…:)
LikeLike
I am an BW and my husband of 21 years is a WM. We have a 15 year old and are just living the life. I must admit that people still give us looks that is Ok. We just love each other and enjoy life. Just love who you love and dig who you dig.
LikeLike
I think Black women are very hot, and I want to date one of them I love their personality, and even though I am married I dream of being with one of them and making passionate love to them. I love especially the real hot sexy babes with the big boobs. I have kissed a few black women and it was scrumtious. I would like very much to meet a 33-38 year old black busty woman 5 ft 4 to 5ft 6 inches tall in nyc. Well dressed with high heels big earrings you let me know when and where.
LikeLike
^ BW are more than just playthings for your pleasure.
And, dude, you’re MARRIED or did that just slip your mind?
LikeLike
This isn’t a hook-up blog, sorry to disillusion you. If you’re that eager call ‘911’ someone will show up!
LikeLike
I am a athlete Scandinavian/white man, and I am very attracted to curvy or natural features on African/black men. Not a typo, black men I am gay. Mainly a large behind is what I like on them there is more ‘padding’ if you get what I mean…it is good for both of us when I make love to him haha. But just sexy to see a large booty on black man (any man!!!) will make me crazy. Also, the sides of their body to grab it is good to be in shape, but I like that as well, so either way. Some black women interest me in a way…I am certain that if I liked women I would like the same thing in black women (curvy proportions and curly hair). I am currently dating an African american/black man and his behind is round and amazing, curves in general. I would only want curvier he can be as ‘thick’ as he wants it is great :P! Also we just get along emotionally which is obviously extremely important. As far as facial characteristics doesn’t matter I like all different kinds.
Also I think sometimes dating someone who is different than you (in whatever way, culture, race, religion) is very appealing and attracts people just because it is different! Maybe they have a new culture, and you will you learn new things by dating them! It is curiosity, something human, it is survival to learn new things. However sometimes people think it is too difficult or they will not be accepted because of this…that’s too bad. Sometimes black people give this impression or say whites cannot understand. But, if you are raised somewhere without many different people, it is of course difficult to understand someone else culture completely, there will always be mistakes and errors even racism. It is more productive to be friendly and teach understanding through friendship to someone who is ignorant than to lecture someone and make them think ‘they don’t want me to understand them’. Show them if their ideas are wrong, that you are just like them and they benefit from having you as a friend and learning. I can tell you sometimes people have crazy ideas about what Swedish/Icelandic are even for me, and they learn different by dating me maybe or just talking to me.
LikeLike
Seems we’ve got a troll with a sense of humor.
LikeLike
As black man who gets sickened and saddened at the way black women have deserted black men,when they need them most,they deserve to be doomed to their desperate quest for the white man’s attention,but to the point of this article, i roll in a great many white circles and i’m going to give you the answer of all answers, you know,what they won’t tell you, and you so desperately need to find out…….ready……..ok no guy want’s the run of the mill loud mouth getto hoochie, with or without degree,but what does work is a well behaved women with a very exotic look,you know, asians, black women with the asian eyes ,grace jones-like facial structure, model-like,.,…..something different, the one’s his friends will high-five him on, and sorry to say most of you don’t fit that bill….take that and spread it in your angry black women circles……THANK ME LATER@@@@@@
LikeLike
Translation:
“I’m a working class black guy who can’t get and model-class black pu$$$y and thus considers myself betrayed by the women of my ethnic group. Baaaaaaaaaw…”
LikeLike
As a black woman I have not abandoned black men. I feel black men have abandoned me. I refuse to be a baby mama or a back seat girl. I will not sit at home waiting for my man to pay attention to men. I will not be an easy lay.
I expect my man, regardless of ethnicity, to be family oriented, goal oriented, and be able to save more than change in jar.
I educated myself and require the man I spend time with to have some career development under his belt. I will allow anyone degrade me or my dreams.
If you feel this abandonment than so be it. You have to man enough to my man, no matter the color of your gift wrap.
LikeLike
Mainly a large behind is what I like on them there is more ‘padding’ if you get what I mean
I get what you mean! I enjoy men with muscular buttocks you can carry a shelf on, they look good in shorts!
em>But just sexy to see a large booty on black man (any man!!!) will make me crazy.
I hear ya!
I am currently dating an African american/black man and his behind is round and amazing, curves in general.
Shoot, you’re doing better than I am at present!
Also we just get along emotionally which is obviously extremely important. As far as facial characteristics doesn’t matter I like all different kinds.
You are a better person than I am! The last man I dated was, what is referred to as a triple bagger in bar room parlance! Translation: you have to drink copious amounts of liquor in order to get the groove on! The problem is I don’t drink! Needless to say we broke up!
I can tell you sometimes people have crazy ideas about what Swedish/Icelandic are even for me, and they learn different by dating me maybe or just talking to me.
I know what you mean! There are idiots out there who think Canadians live in igloos and drive dog sleds to work!
LikeLike
Amen, Luna.
LikeLike
Blacktroll – May 29, 201 @ 16:50:04
Interesting how you can date “Becky types” that range from attractive to unattractive, but black women can only be one type to be considered dateable. My advice to you is to get a backbone. Date the white women you want and stop using us as your pathetic excuse.
*************
Luna – May 29, 2010 @ 18:38:57
I agree with your expectations. Who wants a weak man? My father was a strong man and he loved my mother and took care of his family. He set the bar for what a man ought to be. He was loving and funny as well as set high expectations of me and my siblings. This is the type of husband I am looking for.
LikeLike
abagond why if you believe in seeing mixed race people as black have you used none as an example for black women white men like? I would add thandie newton, zadie smith, halle berry and leona lewis for example. they have all dated white men.
LikeLike
@Luna
As a black woman I have not abandoned black men. I feel black men have abandoned me. I refuse to be a baby mama or a back seat girl. I will not sit at home waiting for my man to pay attention to men.
Sounds great!
I will not be an easy lay.
Whoops! Lost me there. Sex understood as reward? Uh uh.
I expect my man, regardless of ethnicity, to be family oriented, goal oriented, and be able to save more than change in jar.
Define “family oriented” and “goal oriented”.
LikeLike
“I will not be an easy lay.”
For me, I don’t give myself to every man that I know. I believe sex is a gift from God given to humanity as a way of bonding couples. To have sex with every man you meet is akin to primate troop bonding. I feel I am at a higher state of evolution.
“family oriented”
One who knows the value of one’s family. One who chooses to occasionally put personal needs above the family construct.
“goal oriented”
A goal oriented person is will to delay gratification for an ultimate desire — i.e. choosing to drive an economy car to save for a house.
I hope that helps.
LikeLike
I believe sex is a gift from God given to humanity as a way of bonding couples. To have sex with every man you meet is akin to primate troop bonding. I feel I am at a higher state of evolution.
Wow. Roots Christianity and Darwinist social evolution in one paragraph. Impressive!
How about this, Luna: you have sex when you want to for your own personal pleasure and not try to use it as a tool for social engineering? Because I’ll tell you this straight up: if it were really used for family bonding, men wouldn’t desert their families. As they do. Every day. By the millions.
Also, there’s a HUGE middle ground between being sexually free and having sex with everyone you meet.
A goal oriented person is will to delay gratification for an ultimate desire — i.e. choosing to drive an economy car to save for a house.
How about not driving a car AT ALL?
LikeLike
Thad,
The one of the many wonderful things about Judaism is sex is not dirty! Therefor it is possible to swing from the chandelier while with your spouse, or spousal equivalent. That is all a part of the beauty of it all.
As for not driving, I’m all for public transportation.
LikeLike
Well, what if you want to have sex but no spousal equivalent?
LikeLike
Thad,
You do what you do every morning in the shower. 😉
You’re so full of sh!t.
LikeLike
I have been dating my girlfriend for almost 4 years now and she is originaly from haiti. She is a matter of fact dark skinned and I think she is the most beautifull person I have ever seen. To me it is not skin color at all. It is personality. The only reason I would look past a black girl is when she has the “ghetto” thing going. The same reason we look past certain white girls (not being ghetto, other reasons). This is a very general topic in the first place. Everyone has their own taste.
LikeLike
Matty says,
To me it is not skin color at all. It is personality.
laromana says,
Matty,
You’re right and men of ANY race should learn to view BW as NORMAL HUMAN WOMEN and NOT just a skin color.
LikeLike
Heh, well this sucks for me. It looks like neither race would want me. I’m darker skinned, with your common yet not so common african american features, my body build is extremely curvy. I’m not skinny with narrow hips, basically I have an hour glass figure. But to read this article it seems as if the very things I thought made me beautiful will go unreconized by both ends of the spectrum… How sad… Normally I wouldn’t care because this is someone else’s opinion. But, I have been noticing that this is sadly…true. *shrug* I don’t know what to make of this anymore.
I guess things will change when I get older
LikeLike
Danah, you are beautiful and altogether lovely, do not let the enemy steal what God has freely given you. If there is one thing I would like to say to black women is..”stop looking at yourself through the glasses of this sickly, agnostic, and malign society.
You must know you are beautiful, you do not need a white man to validate your beauty or worth. You are the apple of God’s eye “I am dark, yet lovely”
Just remember that God did not screw up when he made you so African looking, you are no mistake and God was not tipsy when he made and went “oops I think I put too much booty on that one”
The ideals of beauty have been changing for centuries, in the 19 00 and earlier centuries, English woman used to add garments to make their behinds look bigger and the ideal beauty for the French was the well rounded lady painted on the cealings of great public houses.
Do not let this time, and this society define you, your beaty is beyond your skin. Let go of the white man dream and find happines in the way you have been created.
Lots of love to you princess’
Angel
LikeLike
One thing you cannot do is generalize white males,particularly when it comes to the type of black women they will date. I have seen white men who are only comfortable dating mixed women who are of a black and white union, since they are ‘closer to white’. I have seen some white men who date very black-skinned women with natural hair. I have also seen white men who have dated black women who have the typical black american look, brown skin, medium sized facial features. Take Alek Wek, Gabrielle Union, and Michael Michele, all women of African descent who look so different yet I have seen white men with black women who look like these women.
Now one thing I think we can all agree on is that they do not date ghetto chicks!
LikeLike
Please.
I have seen white men with “ghetto” black women. I saw a “normal”, non-wigger white man with a black women who had a gold tooth and red,white and blue weave (yes, you read me right). The more I open my eyes the more I take notice how unpredictable dating opinions of men are. Sure there are universals things that men like and avoid. In-shape(not fat) women and feminine curves( whether the woman is thick or skinny/slim) are always in style. Women with nasty dispositions are always out of style. Apart from that anything goes.
LikeLike
VERY intersting posts 🙂 First, before I forget – PETER, what is your phone number? LOL 🙂
I was researching the subject of White Men and Black Women because – you guessed it, I am a Black Woman & a White Man has shown “significant” interest in me, recently.
I met him on a plane ride back in February, we exchanged #’s (in a diplomatic/business type of way). I sent him a text when I made it home from the airport and that was the last we communicated with each other until most recently (May 2010). He sent me an interesting text out of the blue and I responded.
I am a light skinned black woman & have been told I am attractive from all races (NO concete-AT ALL), just trying to paint the picture). I am 5’1″ and very athletic (36D-25-35), 128 Ibs. I am a Professional woman with an MBA. HE owns his own business and seems to be doing quite well for himself. I am intrigued with him because he seems to handle my “sassiness” quite well (yes, for a WM 🙂 He is laid back and seems to be game for whatever I throw at him (from Skydiving to getting a mani/pedi). Getting on to the issue…
When he invited me to his house (Ranch would be a better description) for the first time, after establishing there was interest (on both sides), we had a “real” conversation. I wanted to know what he wanted from me. He responded by telling me that he has NO problems with me being Black & how very, very attracted to me, he is. HOWEVER, he did say that he is nervous about what the outside world will think…this would include his family & friends. He is divorced and has 3 children (the YOUNGEST being 17). He asked that I give him some time…
Initially I was like, “OK”, but now I am wondering…give him some time for what? To explain that I am Black – I don’t think that’s going to change anytime soon. & why does he need to EXPLAIN anything? He is a successful businessman, he is a GROWN man and father. I am a successful business woman, educated, in shape and a great mother…Please help me to understand WHY he needs to explain ANYTHING. What am I missing? Why can’t it be a simple introduction with my name & what I do for a living? Let them ask ME to explain my “Blackness” wouldn’t that be an interesting discussion!
I thought this was 2010, not 1910!
LikeLike
Thad,
1. Sex is only dirty when you do it right. 🙂
2. We have strayed from the premise of the blog.
3. You really need to find a woman.
LikeLike
Let me aslo say…after talking to some of my Black Male friends, I am disappointed to hear the anger from them at the fact I am entertaining dating a WM. I have always (and will probably always be) attracted to BM. But at the same time frustrated with the outcome.
At this point in my life, I am attracted to a strong man that knows what he wants out of life, willing to lay down a plan to go after it and a man that can love, respect and cherish me & my children, regardless of the color of the wrapping paper.
LikeLike
SMDH
LikeLike
Lynn,
He wants you to be his friend with benefits. In other words, he can have sex with you on the low but doesn’t have to introduce you to the world as his girlfriend. He’s not really interested in a relationship. A grown man, who is divorced, with 3 kids should not need anyone’s approval at this point in his life. Men who are in college and who are just starting out in the real world need approval, not grown a*s men. That in itself is a red flag.
Why would you discuss this with black men? You should have known better.
LikeLike
Still shaking my head at the absurdity of it all. If that was a black man you probably would have seen through his crap in a heartbeat and called him on it. I coul be wrong.
Sometimes what we don’t tolerate in men of our race we make allowances for in other races, not best all around.
Perhaps the novelty of his whiteness is what is blinding you to the fact that this guy as Shan said will regard it as nothing but a booty call as the Yanks would call it. I hope not. Doesn’t matter how educated a black woman is, or light skinned for that matter. Unfotunately that doesn’t exempt you from the way he’s bound to treat you.
I must reiterate that I hope I’m wrong.
LikeLike
@ Shan,
Thanks for the interpretation. Well I’ll have to let him know that will be a NO GO. I can get that in my own back yard – which is NOT what I am looking for.
Talked it over with my “friends” because silly me thought our friendships were unconditional. I guess that is the case as long as I am not considering dating a WM 🙂
LikeLike
Hi MerriMay,
Well it may have been the newness, it may have been that it took him MONTHS to call (which he didn’t have to), or the long, easy conversations on the phone, but whatever it was, it was different that what I had been receiving. It could also be that if a GROWN man wanted a Booty Call, he can just ask for it. I am sure he (as well as other men) won’t have a problem with getting takers.
If a BM had an issue with introducing me to the outside world, I would probably wonder if he was married (it would raise a red flag, only bcuz it is unfortunately familiar territory).
You lost me when you referred to my education and skin tone in reference to how he is “bound to treat me.” Are you saying that is the case for all WM or just this one?
LikeLike
Lynn
Re: education and skin tone
I meant that if a certain type of white man is going to treat you that way, whether you’re educated/ghetto, light/dark won’t really matter, one’s blackness is really the determining factor I’ve come to realise. In light of that, you deserve so much better.
He could be a good guy, new territory et al, I won’t make excuses for him, but his reticence doesn’t make sense at all. Either way all the best 🙂
LikeLike
Thanks MerriMay 🙂
LikeLike
Lynn,
It’s exasperating to see the different brands of BS BW are expected to put up with. You definitely DESERVE better and I hope you find a man who will treat you with the love/respect you deserve soon.
Under NORMAL circumstances 2 attractive, intelligent adults with similar interests who are compatible with each other should have NO problem establishing a relationship but, somehow, MANY men of ALL races can’t seem to treat BW as NORMAL, HUMAN, WOMEN.
There is NOTHING WRONG with BW but there is a LOT wrong with men of ANY race that want to treat us like their “dirty little secret”.
LikeLike
but, somehow, MANY men of ALL races can’t seem to treat BW as NORMAL, HUMAN, WOMEN.
This is the saddest and ugliest thing about this whole issue.
There is NOTHING WRONG with BW but there is a LOT wrong with men of ANY race that want to treat us like their “dirty little secret”.
I agree. Now, I don’t know if Lynn’s guy is this type of a man, but the sooner she learns, the better. She deserves to be treated with full respect.
I’m all for benefit of the doubt and giving chances, so maybe he’s a decent man after all. Still, he should be mature enough to introduce his black girlfriend to his family and to acknowledge her as his partner. The soon you sort out
As for the friends, true friend should support you no matter what. So I guess her friends were just surprised or worried about her because obviously many white men are unable to show a full respect to black women.
LikeLike
@ laromana – I agree, it is exasperating (to put it mildly). The one thing I think we (including myself) are leaving out is the racial history we’ve endured in the US. Even though I am “on the verge” of being upset with my WM’s (let’s call him JIM) comment, if I am honest with myself, I too will find it a little difficult to “explain” the relationship to some of my friends and my children’s father (my ex husband).
I am NOT saying that I wouldn’t do it, after all I am a grown woman, but I am saying that it gives me reason to pause and take a deep breath, whereas, if it were a BM, I wouldn’t hesitate or necessarily think twice about introductions. I find it interesting that it makes me a little nervous to introduce a successful business man to my F&F solely bcuz of his race.
I believe it has a lot to do with the conversations we grew up with. Conversations that are said, but not discussed in mixed company. I think this is true for Black as well as White people. So maybe “Jim” isn’t reacting any diff. than me, he just verbalized it & I kept quiet :-}
LikeLike
@ Mira – it’s funny that I read your post just as I finished a phone conversation with a friend of mine (yes, he is White) & he pretty much said the same thing. He’s not sure if “Jim” should be thrown under the bus – just yet, & I should play it out to see where it goes. I had the conversation with “Rick” not only bcuz he knows me, but bcuz he is married to a Latino woman & he’s from Kentucky – yes, Kentucky; LOL! He married in 1992 & went through a lot of “issues”, so I thought it would be good to get his take.
He also pointed out that “Jim” is 6 to 7 years older (45) than us, in business for himself & there could be consequences that aren’t readily apparent to me, but if I like him, why not see where it goes…
I agree, but I will say – I am keeping my EYE on him & both ears open 🙂
Thanks to everyone for your open, honest & candid feedback!!
LikeLike
@ Mira,
“So I guess her friends were just surprised or worried about her because obviously many white men are unable to show a full respect to black women.”
Well Mira – if they only had the same disdain for BM who don’t show or have full respect towards BW, I would better understand their anger. A BW had to give birth to a BM & IF he is the type of man who is disrespectful (or quietly condones) to a woman that has the same racial make-up as he does, I find that to a double Whammy…
I think my friend’s that were angry, would serve me better by introducing me to a BM that has the qualities I am looking for. Compaints without Viable Options sound like “BLAH, BLAH, BLAH” LOL!
LikeLike
I am a BM and let me give you some food for for thought. Interracial dating is mostly a joke for the simple reason that you are only talking about color not the person. If you are a WM and you do not like black men then you do not love black women for their fathers , brothers and nephews are black. If you are a WM and you do not associate with black men then you do not love black women. Racist people attract other racist people. Most BW who date white men are desparate, hate themselves, black men and lack self-esteem. I would never date a white woman who prolaimed her hatred for white men,that would be an indication that something is mentally wrong with that person. I have dated black, white, asian, hispanic, italian, german and russian women and all were beautiful in my eyes. People who simply date a color are nothing but closet racist
LikeLike
@sixft4 – interesting comment.
Well I assure you that I am not desparate, hate myself, BM or lack self esteem. I have raised a 20 yr. old autistic stepson (who is Black) and I have a son (and daughter) of my own, by a BM.
My ex and I still raise our children as cohesive parents and I respect him as a man & the father of my 2 biological children. I say all of that to reiterate, there is NO hatred towards BM from myself.
Who referred to hating BM anyway?
Who is saying that they only date a color??
LikeLike
sixft4,
Why don’t you and your ilk stop telling BW what to do when it comes to IRR’s.
BW can love/date/marry WHOMEVER we want and we don’t need permission/input from you or ANY OTHER BM to do so.
EVERYONE knows that MOST BM have MAJOR issues with showing PROPER RESPECT to the women who resemble their MOTHERS, GRANDMOTHERS, and SISTERS.
Unlike men of EVERY OTHER RACE, MOST BM can’t seem to understand the BASIC FACT that trashing the HUMANITY, DIGNITY, and FEMININITY of the women of your race is the same as trashing yourself.
You EXIST because a BW chose to birth you and DON’T YOU FORGET IT.
LikeLike
I agree Laromana
Here’s some food for thought. Such commenters crop up from nowhere when it’s the black woman considering IR dating. Funny enough that is typicall followed by how many races of women he has dated. Yet there’s silence when there’s a racist white guy here proclaiming his love for black women. Or a black man who boasts of his conquests of other races.
Guess it’s easier to pick on the black woman than take on a man smdh
I don’t believe that most black women that date interracially are desperate, why aren’t black men who do the same berated as well?
How predictable.
LikeLike
Laromana and Merrimay great response to sixft4.
Ladies hold on to your self esteem and self confidence and do not let these half twits bring you down . Continue to walk over the trash on your way to happiness.
LikeLike
Laromana & MerriMay
~Amen~
LikeLike
sixft4,
“If you are a WM and you do not associate with black men then you do not love black women.”
What if you are a white man who happens to not know many black men/aren’t in an area with many black people? I don’t think a person should have to bend over backwards to garner black friends to prove how much they aren’t racist/love black women.
“Most BW who date white men are desparate, hate themselves, black men and lack self-esteem.”
Funny, I’ve heard the same of black men who [only] date white women.
“Interracial dating is mostly a joke for the simple reason that you are only talking about color not the person.
…I have dated black, white, asian, hispanic, italian, german and russian women and all were beautiful in my eyes.”
So your dates were mostly a joke?
Also, since you’ve dated white women, are you desperate, hate yourself, hate black women, and lacking in self-esteem?
LikeLike
Ladies,
This subject is SO interesting to me, ESPECIALLY taking into consideration “some” of my BM friend’s comments (similar in nature to “sixft4”). This very subject may inspire me to go on and get my PHD in Human / Organizational Behavior…
The most interesting thing to me is, BM know and see how “some” BM treat their mothers, sisters, wives (us) and sit idoly by SAYING and DOING NOTHING as far as the BM goes! If they say anything, it is negative and derogatory towards the BW – I don’t get it.
If anything, I would expect for BM to defend us firstly, within our OWN race, thereby teaching/leading by example for all other races, how a BW should be and deserves to be treated (with love, respect & kindness REGARDLESS of the race).
*Another sad comment from (yes, a male friend of mine… who is Black). His comment to me was; “White men aren’t even attracted to Black Women. They only want to have $*x with BW bcuz of the $lave/Master history, then go on about their business.” OMG!! Just think I NEVER would have known he had this attitude before bringing up being interested in getting to better know a Man – who happens to be White…
LikeLike
Thanks Merrimay, Sam, and Lynn for your support.
I think it’s high time that we as BW strongly challenge the DOUBLE STANDARD that MANY BM have when it comes to BW in IRR’s. BW DON’T NEED BM’S permission/input to love/date/marry men of ANY RACE who we choose. If BM can love/date/marry WHOMEVER they want, BW can do the same.
MANY BM need to deal with their MANY issues (self hatred, cowardice, irresponsibility, sexism, etc.) related to their ANTI-BW attitudes/actions that have greatly contributed to the continued attacks from EVERYONE on the HUMANITY, DIGNITY, and FEMININITY of BW.
It’s OBVIOUS that, unlike women of EVERY OTHER RACE, BW CAN’T COUNT on MOST BM to play their PROPER role of PROTECTORS/DEFENDERS of the honor of BW.
This is a major reason why I feel that BM haven’t EARNED the PRIVILEGE to enter into ANY discussions about BW and IRR’s.
LikeLike
I do not bash or talk bad about black men publicly or even to strangers, but by no means do I take their advice when it comes to dating and white men. I date who I want. It’s not that they don’t believe that a nonblack man can love a black woman, it’s just that if too many black women date out it will be threatening to the black community because black women have always been the backbone of our community. Women don’t have egos, men do. No race of men wants to see many of their women, particularly the cream of the crop or the best looking ones dating out.
LikeLike
laromana,
Sad, but oh so true 😦
LikeLike
Shan,
I understand your point but I don’t believe that it’s BW’s responsiblity to “save” the BC. MANY BM are the ones who are ACTIVELY, AGRESSIVELY rejecting BW/ trashing the HUMANITY/DIGNITY/FEMININITY of BW solely because they are Black, and then have the NERVE to try to DICTATE to BW as to who they SHOULD/SHOULDN’T be loving/dating/marrying.
This is RIDICULOUS behavior, on the part of MANY BM, and is OBVIOUSLY sexist. BW have NO OBLIGATION to conform to this or ANY OTHER DOUBLE STANDARDS BM decide to MAKE UP.
LikeLike
Hi Shan,
I too understand your point, but what’s interesting is that you say:
“I do not bash or talk bad about black men publicly or even to strangers, but by no means do I take their advice when it comes to dating and white men.”
1) I don’t believe discussing FACTS (even as they relate to your own personal experiences), equates to “talking bad or bashing”.
2) Why don’t you take their advice? Is it because you already know they are going to give bad advice?
It kind of leads back to your original question to me:
“Why would you discuss this with black men? You should have known better.”
**I didn’t know better at the time, but I am glad that I discussed it with my “fair weather” friends. Maybe it’s because I am a tranplant from the far north & now living in the South; I had no idea the discussion would ignite a wildfire from BM. But similar to racism, I think it’s good to have “real” talk. Wounds will NOT heal if you keep them covered up…so THIS BW will continue to share with my BM friends. If they don’t like it, they know where the “delete” key is 🙂
LikeLike
Its a shame that there is prejudice towards inter-racial relationships, no matter from who or where it comes from.
What I find disturbing is that I have only encountered overt prejudice from “some” BM when out with my wife -always in the midwest/south. (sometimes harrassment and on one occassion a physical altercation.) – The interesting thing is that during a couple of these incidents, my wife and I were minding our own business and speaking in Portuguese.
LikeLike
Ditto here, CoL.
LikeLike
Colorofluv & Thaddeus – sad, sad sad…
So what’s your take on a friend’s comment that:
“WM aren’t even attracted to BW. They are only in it for the $ex.”
“What” attracted you to your B wives/GFs?
LikeLike
@ Lynn
I would say you can pretty much throw that out the window, but then again: “Why would someone want to have sex with a person they find UNATTRACTIVE?” *wink*
You find the opposite can be said by WM regarding WW who date BM. Ignorance is not defined by the color of one’s skin, right?
To Answer Your Question: I’m “basically” both Brazilian & American. There is no denying my wife’s beauty, but I married her because of our compatibility, friendship and of course love. Since my wife is Brazilian, it only added to our cultural bond. I have mentioned this many times in other thread’s here on Abagond’s blog, but the color line of black OR white just doesn’t exist in Brazil. Too many people are both, often times with immediate family having White and Black siblings cousins. But… I must digress before going off on one of my many tangents.
LikeLike
laromana
Shan,
I understand your point but I don’t believe that it’s BW’s responsiblity to “save” the BC. MANY BM are the ones who are ACTIVELY, AGRESSIVELY rejecting BW/ trashing the HUMANITY/DIGNITY/FEMININITY of BW solely because they are Black, and then have the NERVE to try to DICTATE to BW as to who they SHOULD/SHOULDN’T be loving/dating/marrying.
This is RIDICULOUS behavior, on the part of MANY BM, and is OBVIOUSLY sexist. BW have NO OBLIGATION to conform to this or ANY OTHER DOUBLE STANDARDS BM decide to MAKE UP.
I agree with you 100%. It’s just that black women held the community together, so it’s always expected. I have made up in my mind that am not going to be one of those women who get stuck alone and waiting for a black man. Sorry but life is too precious and we women have a time limit, especially if we want to start a family.
LikeLike
@ Lynn
my apologies: I meant to say the ‘same’ can be said regarding, “You find the -same- can be said by WM regarding WW who date BM.”
LikeLike
“What” attracted you to your B wives/GFs?
I met Ana in a grad seminar on race, ethnicity and nationalism. We were friends for years before we got together. What’s always attrtacted me about her is her really ironic and sarcastic sense of humor and the fact that she’s one of the most intelligent people I’ve ever met.
Plus the fact that she’s one of thye few people I know – of any color – who really THINKS about race instead of just repeating dogmas.
Plus she’s really cute!
LikeLike
on Tue 8 Jun 2010 at 18:23:01 Lynn
Hi Shan,
I too understand your point, but what’s interesting is that you say:
“I do not bash or talk bad about black men publicly or even to strangers, but by no means do I take their advice when it comes to dating and white men.”
1) I don’t believe discussing FACTS (even as they relate to your own personal experiences), equates to “talking bad or bashing”.
2) Why don’t you take their advice? Is it because you already know they are going to give bad advice?
It kind of leads back to your original question to me:
“Why would you discuss this with black men? You should have known better.”
**I didn’t know better at the time, but I am glad that I discussed it with my “fair weather” friends. Maybe it’s because I am a tranplant from the far north & now living in the South; I had no idea the discussion would ignite a wildfire from BM. But similar to racism, I think it’s good to have “real” talk. Wounds will NOT heal if you keep them covered up…so THIS BW will continue to share with my BM friends. If they don’t like it, they know where the “delete” key is
Hey Lynn,
Here’s the reason why I don’t take their advice: Growing up I’ve always had an attraction to non black men, but I’ve always dated black men in the past that is. In college, I was a member of organizations that included the majority of white people. Now if I was hanging out with one of my black male friends and a white guy would come up and hug me and just start innocently having a conversation they would have a problem with it and say things like, “Why are all of these white boys talking to you?” As if I am suppose to only talk to people who are a certain color. Now if a bunch of white girls talk to them, then it’s ok (not that I cared anyway). This one man who I was in a relationship with has a daughter by a white woman and even has a grandfather who is white, but tried to discourage me from having interest in white men even if I just commented or found one attractive.
Those are just a few, but I saw the hypocrisy early on dealing with black men. They would give reasons as to what happened during slaverly, but I saw through it. It’s about control and ego.
LikeLike
colorofluv says,
Its a shame that there is prejudice towards inter-racial relationships, no matter from who or where it comes from.
What I find disturbing is that I have only encountered overt prejudice from “some” BM when out with my wife -always in the midwest/south. (sometimes harrassment and on one occassion a physical altercation.) – The interesting thing is that during a couple of these incidents, my wife and I were minding our own business and speaking in Portuguese.
laromana says,
colorofluv,
Although there are people of ALL RACES who have racist attitudes towards IRR’s , I believe that the brand of racism that BW encounter from men of ALL RACES when it comes to IRR’s is unique.
Even when SOME WM won’t establish a relationship with a WW who has been with a BM, WW are able to find other men of ANY RACE who will not reject them because WW are considered ACCEPTABLE to love/date/marry GLOBALLY.
This is definitely NOT the case for BW. BW are the only women who have to contend with having MOST BM ACTIVELY/AGRESSIVELY DEGRADING/DEMEANING/DISRESPECTING their HUMANITY/DIGNITY/FEMININITY and condoning/promoting this ANTI-BW behavior from OTHERS.
MOST BM have NO RIGHT to EVER tell BW ANYTHING about who they should love/date/marry when MANY of THEM have yet to learn how to PROTECT/DEFEND the HONOR/DIGNITY of BW (instead of trashing it).
LikeLike
I believe women (of all races) are generally discouraged by their groups to date out. Women are seen as mothers of community and are expected to be loyal to the community. Men often have more freedom. What I’m saying is, a woman dating out is often seen as worse than a man dating out. That is one of the reasons why men have more support, so to speak, when dating out, but not women.
It is true white women are usually seen as more open to IR (more than black women), but some studies say it’s simply not true. Also, I’ve heard of many cases that prove the above point: white men who are ok with dating black women would not want their sisters dating black men.
However, it’s not the same for white women and black women. While both of these groups are victims of sexism and their men’s views on loyalty to the group, there is a significant difference in power and privilege. White women are white and are treated differently by the society. If their motives and their morality are questioned when they choose to date black men, the same can’t be said for the black men they date- they (white women) are seen as the most attractive and it’s seen as “normal” for any man, of any colour, to want them and see them as potential partners (be it sex partners, dating partners, spouses and mothers of their children).
Black women and their non-black partners are always questioned because it’s seen as “strange” for anyone except for black men to want those women- to truly want them as women, and not just “dirty little secrets”, as someone above said. It’s all like laromana said- black women are often not seen as regular, human women, who deserve to be loved and respected like any other women, and who deserve to be seen as potential partners for any man (be it sex partners, dating partners, spouses and mothers of their children).
PS-When it comes to IR dating, Abagond wrote about white men and black women several times, especially about the fact white men often choose not to marry black women because they don’t want black children. On the other hand, black men don’t have the same doubt when marrying white women, because their kids will be black. Still, I wonder, does that make white women more open than white men to the possibility of having black children? If yes, why? Is it because of mother’s love?
LikeLike
WOW!! This is too interesting, but I have got to get some work done, otherwise I’ll be a BW looking for a J O B (B or W) LOL!!
BUT, here is another question:
“WHY are BW “often not seen as regular, human women, who deserve to be loved and respected like any other women, and who deserve to be seen as potential partners for any man”??
@ Mira – I would say “YES”! There is NO love like a Mother’s Love, whether the child is B/W/H/A, biological or not, healthy or handicapped 🙂
@colofluv – I made that exact point to my friend, “why would a man have $ex with a woman he isn’t attracted to?” That only generated a more @ssanine response. “Because Men don’t have to be “attracted” to a woman to have $ex, they are men, not women. Women are the one’s who prefer to have an emotional bond to have $ex, not men.”
I should have hung up on him then, but I coulnd’t until I made my point. Hands on the hip and all – LOL 🙂
LikeLike
Mira,
I don’t think White women are more open than White men to the possibility of having Black children, but I do think that the people (of any race) who would have a problem with it just bank on the fact that their kids won’t be “too Black”. There are plenty of mixed Black/White kids who are indistinguishable from “regular” Black people (probably because “regular” Black is a diverse group in and of itself), but the stereotype of a mixed person is considerably “Whitened”.
LikeLike
Lynn,
I’ll try to answer your question as to why black women aren’t seen as human as to how I see it. Let’s start with physical appearance. If you put an Italian, a Korean, a Philippina, a Latina, a Japanese, a middle easterner, and an Indian woman in the same room, you may be able to tell the difference among them but they will look somewhat similar: the long dark hair, the dark eyes, the olive or tan skin generally speaking. Throw in a black woman and everything just gets out of proportion (just kidding). What I mean is that black women are the most standout race of women in terms of physical appearance. No other race looks like us. That alone is intimidating to some people whether they think we are beautiful or not. Remember when Africans were brought over on the slave ships, the one way they attacked us is by making fun of our hair, skin tone, lips, muscle tone, butt size–No one else looks like us. Now I didn’t include the typical looking white women in the line up because all women are judged based on the eurocentric standard of beauty and even though a white woman may stand out compared to these women, she will still look more like them than not. Black women just look different as a whole, period.
I’ll be back later to explain the rest of what I want to say.
LikeLike
Shan,
I have to disagree here.
A “typical” African woman might look “different” to European eyes, but I can assure you other non-Caucasian women are seen as equally different. Your average European sees Asians and Africans as equally “different”. The only reasons why Asian women are seen as more “acceptable” are cultural.
What I mean is that black women are the most standout race of women in terms of physical appearance. No other race looks like us.
This is also subjective. You can argue that a black woman and an Italian woman look more similar than an Italian and a Swedish woman.
Men who refuse to date black women can say whatever they want, but the truth is simple: it’s their racism, not any objective feature of black women that is preventing them from dating black women.
@Jasmin
I don’t think White women are more open than White men to the possibility of having Black children.
I hear you, and it makes sense, but it still seems like a less of an issue for white women than for white men… I think? Maybe that’s because there seems to be more black men/white women couples, so I wonder what those women think and whether they “worry” about having non-white kids.
I don’t know, this might be a stereotype, but from what I see in (online) discussions, white women who date black men are often questioned about their motives, they are accused of being oversexed and “dirty” for wanting a black man. The issue of kids is rarely mentioned, and I have a feeling white women married to a black man, with kids is seen as respectable. White men (due to sexism) are never seen as “dirty” for dating black women; however, when it comes to marriage, there are “worries” about the kids.
Just something I noticed and perhaps it’s not completely realistic.
LikeLike
Mira says,
This is also subjective. You can argue that a black woman and an Italian woman look more similar than an Italian and a Swedish woman.
Men who refuse to date black women can say whatever they want, but the truth is simple: it’s their racism, not any objective feature of black women that is preventing them from dating black women.
laromana says,
Mira,
Thanks for stating this UNEQUIVOCAL FACT. My long time, first hand life experience has definitely demonstrated that either ANTI-BW COWARDICE or ANTI-BW RACISM are the MAIN reasons American WM refuse to date (or have a SERIOUS relationship with a) BW.
LikeLike
Mira,
Of course it’s racism, but where does that racism stem from?
Anti-bw racism is because the woman is black right? Well, what makes her black? Her culture, physical appearance or both? I see your point but physical appearance plays a big role.
I have to disagree with you about Asians. Europeans do not see Asians as equally different than Africans, particularly fair skinned Asians, not by a long shot. The Asian has never been a threat to the European. It has always been the black man.
LikeLike
Shan,
I don’t know where you live, but Europeans as I know them see Asians equally different as blacks. Trust me.
The treat is just one of the reasons for hating a group. The mechanism behind racism towards Asians and blacks and Native Americans are different, though. When it comes to Asian men, they are not seen as violent or oversexed like black men are seen, but are instead made to look weak and feminine. It’s another racist tactic in order for whites to appear “just right” and the best.
You can argue Asians are better tolerated than blacks and in the US they are model minority. But these things are what make them more acceptable in white people’s eyes, not their actual appearance.
LikeLike
MOST BM have NO RIGHT to EVER tell BW ANYTHING about who they should love/date/marry when MANY of THEM have yet to learn how to PROTECT/DEFEND the HONOR/DIGNITY of BW (instead of trashing it).
…and let’s go back to the Victorian Era, shall we? Men defending women’s honor… Sheeeeeeet . Maybe We should go back to fighting duels too, huh? 😀
LikeLike
“I hear you, and it makes sense, but it still seems like a less of an issue for white women than for white men… I think? Maybe that’s because there seems to be more black men/white women couples, so I wonder what those women think and whether they “worry” about having non-white kids.”
It’s been observed that some women, white and black, go out of their way to have mixed kids. The motivation is eugenicist. These individuals believe that their mixed offspring have a higher probability of possessing extreme physical attractiveness.
LikeLike
Yes, Thad, men defending the honor of their women in the context I’ve noted, is STILL practiced TODAY and has NOTHING to do with “going back to the Victorian era”.
It means that men who honor the women of their race don’t go around trashing their HUMANITY, DIGNITY, and FEMININITY by DEGRADING/DISESPECTING them or by telling people OUTSIDE THEIR RACE that their women are “ugly”, “unfeminine”, or “undesirable” (as MANY BM are doing to BW).
LikeLike
WOW! This is like a non stop action movie! Where do I begin???
@Shan – Hmm…the discussion of skin color/being more acceptable is a subject within itself. Being a “light skinned” (I hate that term 🙂 BW with (my own) fairly long hair, has been the subject of many “intra-racial” discussions. I have been subjected to, “you may be Light, Bright & almost White but You aren’t, The Darker the skin the Deeper the Roots or Don’t think that just because you are light, you are better, and on & on.” All of these comments or sayings are divisive & NEVER initiated by myself. That being said, I do recognize or will admit that “MOST, if not ALL” people feel more comfortable with familiarity/similarity, which includes race, culture, traditions, geoprahical location and yes skin color, etc. So “I” get both extremes, BM seem to be attracted to my physical features, “some” BW judge me before they know me “seemingly” because of those same similar features – which have been compared to some White features (nose, skin color, etc.) To me (and others), it is apparent the maternal side of my family is mixed, but this has NEVER been discussed – surely an effort to try to “conceal” this dirty little secret…
WM on the other hand fascinate me because thinking back, I’ve always thought WM were attracted to me, but it was never really acted upon. My thouhts back then was due to the fact that I worked with WM all the time (I started in Corporate America @ 17y.o.) – but work relationships (of course) were/are taboo. There was also another force at work in this area – My Mother…interestingly enough, is lighter than I am w/freckles! She spoke negatively about ME being with a WM (I am the oldest of 5), HOWEVER, the 3 siblings after me are boys (BM now) and guess what – They are ALL either married to or their significant other is a WW! I know this probably sounds bizarre to everyone, but I firmly believe the situation had A LOT to do w/my mother’s own need to “Control” & in her mind if I would have ended up with a WM (being in Corporate America) it would have Threatened her since of control over me – but enough about that drama…
Now after reading these posts, I’m wondering if the fact is, WM just did not find me attractive because I am a BW? & if that is the case, WHY/WHERE does that come from? The whole thing is foreign to me because I (as most women) can seemingly point out a good looking man, NO MATTER the race:
– Shemar Moore
– Matthew Mcconaughey
– Tyson Beckford
– Mario Lopez
If we disagree on the specific list of names, I would venture to say we can articulate WHY (e.g. too many muscles, prefer darker/lighter skin, too full of himself, etc.), but nothing to do with disliking a RACE – that I know of???…
LikeLike
It means that men who honor the women of their race don’t go around trashing their HUMANITY, DIGNITY, and FEMININITY by DEGRADING/DISESPECTING them or by telling people OUTSIDE THEIR RACE that their women are “ugly”, “unfeminine”, or “undesirable” (as MANY BM are doing to BW).
That would be the human race…?
LikeLike
OH, OH, OH…can I replace Tyson Beckford’s name with Michael Jordan??? Just Kidding (kinda) LOL!!!
LikeLike
Lynn says,
@ Mira – it’s funny that I read your post just as I finished a phone conversation with a friend of mine (yes, he is White) & he pretty much said the same thing. He’s not sure if “Jim” should be thrown under the bus – just yet, & I should play it out to see where it goes. I had the conversation with “Rick” not only bcuz he knows me, but bcuz he is married to a Latino woman & he’s from Kentucky – yes, Kentucky; LOL! He married in 1992 & went through a lot of “issues”, so I thought it would be good to get his take.
He also pointed out that “Jim” is 6 to 7 years older (45) than us, in business for himself & there could be consequences that aren’t readily apparent to me, but if I like him, why not see where it goes…
laromana says,
Lynn, I empathize with the sentiments you’ve posted in your above comments but, after further consideration of your circumstances, I came to a different conclusion.
It seems that BW have always been made to feel as if something is WRONG with them when an American WM/OTHER NON-BM claims to be attracted to them, but doesn’t treat them like NORMAL, HUMAN WOMEN.
I think that a BASIC requirement for men of ANY RACE to demonstrate that they’re ready/able to establish a relationship with a BW, is whether they can treat us like NORMAL, HUMAN WOMEN and NOT STEREOTYPES (eg. look at and approach us, talk to us, introduce us to friends/family, view us as INDIVIDUAL, FULL human beings w/ the same emotions, dreams, desires, that women of ANY race have,etc.) .
If a man of ANY race, claims to be attracted to BW, but isn’t willing to treat them as NORMAL, HUMAN WOMEN then maybe it’s because he’s an ANTI-BW COWARD (worried about losing status/being stigmatized for being with a BW) or a “FUNCTIONAL” ANTI- BW RACIST” (rejects/treats BW differently from NON-BW due SOLELY to their race even though he’s not “technically racist”).
BW shouldn’t trust/choose to be in relationships with ANTI-BW COWARDS or “FUNCTIONAL” ANTI-BW RACISTS because if a man of ANY RACE is TRULY attracted to a BW, he will FULLY accept and respect her, REGARDLESS of what ANYONE thinks. An example of this are the Lovings (BW/WM married couple) who withstood MAJOR RACISM in the 60’s to help legalize IRR marriage in America.
LikeLike
ColorofLuv,
“What I find disturbing is that I have only encountered overt prejudice from “some” BM when out with my wife -always in the midwest/south. (sometimes harrassment and on one occassion a physical altercation.)”
I’ve experienced hostility from black men and white women, mainly, when I am out with my SO. No physical altercations, although my SO wanted to fight this black guy who made a loud comment referring to slavery as we were passing by.
———
Shan says,
“I’ll try to answer your question as to why black women aren’t seen as human as to how I see it. Let’s start with physical appearance. If you put an Italian, a Korean, a Philippina, a Latina, a Japanese, a middle easterner, and an Indian woman in the same room, you may be able to tell the difference among them but they will look somewhat similar: the long dark hair, the dark eyes, the olive or tan skin generally speaking. Throw in a black woman and everything just gets out of proportion (just kidding). What I mean is that black women are the most standout race of women in terms of physical appearance.”
Mira says,
“I have to disagree here.
‘A “typical” African woman might look “different” to European eyes, but I can assure you other non-Caucasian women are seen as equally different. Your average European sees Asians and Africans as equally “different”. The only reasons why Asian women are seen as more “acceptable” are cultural.’
I think you are both correct. Black women do have features that make them stand out amongst other women. In particular, darker skin. That’s part of the reason why they are seen as different, but the overarching reasons are cultural. I am almost certain if the U.S. didn’t have the history it does and if Africans were the ones in global power instead of Europeans, the physical differences would be less of an issue.
LikeLike
@ Natasha
One thing I haven’t understood is that my wife and I have not yet been subjected to overt prejudice by any other group except for BM. In some of the smaller towns in the South, I expected that we could get some harassment from WM, but to date it has not. (or course we are currently in Miami, FL and it is simply a whole other world down here.) It is disconcerting to my wife and I that we would be the target of misunderstood (misguided prejudice) – above all from ‘some’ BM. Culturally speaking, this was something my wife was not expecting at all. She was shocked. Only in the United States has she experienced this.
LikeLike
It’s funny that Sade is in the category of women that white men usually don’t date. I have that Sade type of look, and I am what some call a white guy magnet. White and Asian men are very attracted to me, as well as black men. So, I don’t get it, why is she there.
LikeLike
Natasha says,
That’s part of the reason why they are seen as different, but the overarching reasons are cultural.
laromana says,
Natasha, I agree with you, for the most part, but I still think RACE is the MAJOR “DIFFERENCE” why American WM/OTHER American NON-BM who are either ANTI-BW RACISTS/COWARDS are rejecting BW.
After all what do these American WM/OTHER American NON-BM culturally have in common with Asians, Latinas, East Indians, Native Americans?
In this context a “difference” in culture is being used as an excuse to exclude BW, who “culturally” have more in common with American WM/OTHER American NON-BM than women from non-American cultures.
LikeLike
Roni,
“It’s funny that Sade is in the category of women that white men usually don’t date. I have that Sade type of look, and I am what some call a white guy magnet. White and Asian men are very attracted to me, as well as black men. So, I don’t get it, why is she there.”
I think she, along with Phylicia Rashad, are outliers in that category. Many white men I know would find their types alluring, and I know white men who love Sade.
ColorofLuv,
“In some of the smaller towns in the South, I expected that we could get some harassment from WM, but to date it has not.”
I was expecting that too, but nope.
“It is disconcerting to my wife and I that we would be the target of misunderstood (misguided prejudice) – above all from ‘some’ BM. Culturally speaking, this was something my wife was not expecting at all. She was shocked. Only in the United States has she experienced this.
TBH, I’m not surprised. At all. Then again, I was born and raised in the States.
LikeLike
laromana, I agree. When I said “culture” I was referring to American culture, i.e. America’s past and present racism.
LikeLike
Every race has a feature that makes them stand out, it’s just that black women tend to have more features that set them apart from other races in my opinion.
Do you all find that Jewish men tend to like black women a lot?
LikeLike
@ Shan
The area I’m currently living in has a very large population of Jews and I have not noticed this at all. However, since i am in Miami, the Jewish population here is very ethnically diverse. They come from Colombia, Venezuela, Brazil, Israel, etc…
@Natasha & Laromana
This is definitely an American cultural thing. You would never find the same treatment in Brazil as it exists here. If my wife and I were in Brazil and experienced the same harassment, the first thought would be that the person harrassing us must be completely strung out on something, mentally ill or both. (or maybe an American tourist who just stepped off the plane. LOL )
LikeLike
Shan,
“Do you all find that Jewish men tend to like black women a lot?”
Jewish people, men and women, seem to like me. Who knows why. But I generally like them too.
LikeLike
“Every race has a feature that makes them stand out, it’s just that black women tend to have more features that set them apart from other races in my opinion.”
Perhaps. Then again some whites think that Asians look quite strange, too.
I think the physical similarity of stereotypical-looking Latinas (e.g. Salma Hayek, Adriana Lima) to non-Hispanic white women is a major reason they can compete with them in terms of popular appraisals of beauty. The Latina look is sort of an exoticized form of whiteness.
LikeLike
I hope I don’t sound to harsh but lynn needs to develop some self esteem. This guy sounds like he only wants sex from her. At least this guy was honest enough to tell her his intentions up front. I don’t understand why lynn is spending this much mental and emotional energy on this COWARD. They are lots of white men who have no problem with being in Serious RELATIONSHIPS with bw. Let’s spend our time discussing those wm
LikeLike
laromana say’s,
“BW shouldn’t trust/choose to be in relationships with ANTI-BW COWARDS or “FUNCTIONAL” ANTI-BW RACISTS because if a man of ANY RACE is TRULY attracted to a BW, he will FULLY accept and respect her, REGARDLESS of what ANYONE thinks. An example of this are the Lovings (BW/WM married couple) who withstood MAJOR RACISM in the 60′s to help legalize IRR marriage in America.”
I “agree” with you laromana and actually discussed this very point with “Jim”. This brings up another interesting point though. I have a friend who’s parent’s championed IRR marriages in the 60’s when it was illegal in Oklahoma. ONLY to end in divorce 2 children and less than 10 years later. There are numerous famous people, who seemingly suffered the same demise – Halle Berry, Alicia Keyes, Chilli, Shemar Moore, etc., where the parents had to obviously overcome racial and socio-economic barriers – only to have the woman end up raising the child(ren) single handidly. I mention the one divorce I know of PERSONALLY because it seems to point to – even though people go into things “gungho”, ready to show the world, battle armor on, it doesn’t always mean they are ready to go the distance with the same valor.
So I definately feel your point. I am also understanding when a person talks about running a marathon (for the first time), that they take time to prepare themselves mentally, physically and psycologically – not to mention, verbalizing their desires with F&F, in the “hopes” of garnering support. Entering a “marathon” is the easy part. Competing & FINISHING the marathon (regardless of placement) and surrounding yourself with supporters seem to be some of the ingredients to a successful long range plan?!?!?!
LikeLike
Thanks Camille for your insight.
LikeLike
Shan,
My boyfriend is Jewish, and I would say that the only thing that distinguishes him from other White guys I’ve dated (in terms of preferences), is that some segments of the Ashkenazi Jewish population are big on food as a cultural unifier, similar to how some Black families have the whole “put some meat on them bones” thing. He prefers a big butt to big breasts, and claims to like “bigger” women, though really he just likes women with an hourglass shape, no matter what their size, to a point. (I’m a size 2, and he doesn’t seem to think women bigger than a 6/8 are attractive.)
LikeLike
lynn- your welcome and I hope I wasn’t harsh. You sound like an incredibly beautiful and intelligent woman. You shouldnt be chasing this guy around. Men should be chasing you around with your looks and education! If a man doesent want you around his family, friends, and business associates then he isnt worth your time. Since he runs a business I dont see how his career could be affected by an ir relationship since he only has to answer to himself. Anyway enough discussion of this creep
LikeLike
Sorry for the typos!
LikeLike
There’s harassment in Brazil, CoL. It’s just not in your face, as it sometimes is in the U.S. It’s also more often due to ignorance than malice.
LikeLike
@ Camille – I’m not “chasing” anyone around. My children are away for the summer. I am foot loose & fancy free. This thing all started bcuz he reached out to me & due to it being a new venture for me, I wanted to get insight before rushing to an immediate decision (as BW are often accused of doing). I did not realize it would be interpreted as having “low” self esteem.
Please share your “high” self-esteem relationship(s) with WM/BW. I am open to learning from someone who is apparently more experienced in this area than I.
LikeLike
Lynn- Again forgive me if I was a little too harsh. Words can take on a different tone thy are written instead if spoken. I jut don’t understand why you want to pursue a relationship with this guy. I am a mixed race bw and I have only dated white men. To me dating is just dating. A man that admits that he is uncomfortable dating a black woman is to be avoided at all costs. Just my two cents
LikeLike
Lynn
Here is insight from a male that is white. If a guy is truely interested in You whatever colour you are he will start to persue you in a subtle way or show interest without becoming a stalker. No bear in mind that if you are beautiful and smart he may look at you and say to himself, ” ah she would not go out with me so why should I even try!” or, “She is georgeous what have I got to offer her besides she probably has a handsome beefy boyfriend already, I am not going to embarrass myself by asking her out.” Now that is just what sometimes happens behind the scenes that you do not see.
Now if he does spend time and ask you out but there seems to be this standstill place he may be assessing the situation and that may be from past experiences, he may be standing there to see if you have become bored with him and will dump him or stay. He may be slowing things down to make sure he is seeing the whole person in front of himself and not looking at you through rose coloured glassess.
However if there is a buffer being placed between you and his friends, family fellow workers then that raises a red flag to me. He may be the type wanting to live two lives or he is too worried about what other people think. Depending on the motive for the buffer would show what he is made of, here is what I mean: If he has a family that is say predjudice then he may be worried about exposing you to them, or he could be too worried about what they will think of him being with you either thought or concern would cause him to install a buffer, one reason is out of concern for you the other reason shows concern for himself and not you.
Here is another way to figure out if the guy is into you and not just looking for a piece of tail. How does he act around others, does he stand by his own opinion or does his opinion change direction with the wind? Does he show respect for other people in various situations or does he put himself first all the time. Does he dominate a conversation with you or other people or does he give other people a chance to express themselves? Does he listen and interact with you or is it just one sided all listening or all speaking when he is around you? If he does not show respect for others he may not have that much respect for you either so bear that in mind.
Give a little time to him and see what he does with it, there is some truth to appearing too available, make him work his schedule to meet up with yours and that would require a little bit of willingness on his part to negotiate and work towards you, that would show he is not lazy. If he wanted to see you this weekend perhaps tell him you have plans but the following weekend you could keep open for plans with him, see how he reacts it shows you are not desperate for a date, but not mount everest either.
As for what Laromana said I agree if a man wants to date you and is strong enough of charactor he will not be detered by worrying what other people think of him or say to him, and that may take time for some to reach that point and others may never reach that point. If your gut instinct tells you that this guy is hiding you from his life then watch him and if it seems like he is ashamed of you then walk away. I know I have one opinionated uncle that I would shelter anyone from as I would not want to expose any woman I was with to him but the rest of my family I have no problem with whome I am with. and my situation would be out of concern for the woman, not the concern of what my uncle thinks of me being with a woman of a different race. there is the example of a buffer but for the concern for the woman. but where it comes to friends and coworkers I can choose them, my relatives I cannot chose who I am related to. I can choose which relatives are worth talking to though.
Here is another thing to watch for, if you hold his hand in private and he is not the shy type and you try the same thing in public and he pulls away then that may show you he is worried about how other people view him. This is more of an accurate test if he is NOT the shy type by nature, shy types are not openly affectionate no matter what the race and even in private they are often reserved so remember this little test is for the types that are not shy to test if they are comfortable with you or not comfortable with you.
If he makes a big deal out of small changes or glitches on a date wether it is with you or other people around him then run away, he is a drama queen and you do not need that as there is no negotiations with that type of person!!
My advice is give him some attention but make him meet you half way. if you are worth it to him then he will persue you but if he doesnt then he is lazy, or selfish, or not that interested in you. And most important travel at a pace that you have not a faster pace dictated by someone else because if you go too fast a pace you do not have time to see him in full picture and that is when you will make mistakes. Good luck dear I wish you the best, I am here to understand how BW think because I like BW and in trade I offer what this WM sees and thinks.
LikeLike
The Latina look is sort of an exoticized form of whiteness.
The “Latina” look as we know it is a farce. A significant number of people living in Latin America are of African descent w/ little admixture. Up to 50% of Brazilians and 30% of Belizean are of have significant black African Admixture yet we are feed images of the most Caucasoid looking Latin American women. If we took a composite of all Latin American countries Im sure the skin tones and facial features would be a bit different from the “exoticized for of whiteness” we are used to seeing.
LikeLike
I love that word “significant”, Y. What does it mean? 10%? 50%? Because if it’s 10%, I’d say 70% of Brazilians have “significant” African ancestry.
If we took a composite of all Latin American countries Im sure the skin tones and facial features would be a bit different from the “exoticized for of whiteness” we are used to seeing.
No doubt. It also wouldn’t be black.
LikeLike
@ Paul
wos…. You should start your own “advice” column. lol Good read and spot on about men of confidence.
@ Y
I think the “exoticized form of whiteness” is what FG was referring to as portrayed in the media. The Latino look from my personal perspective is not bound by any set of rules, it is simply any and all phenotypical possibilities.
LikeLike
I must admit I never really thought about “Latinos” as a separate group in terms of physical appearance. All I know about this group (these groups) is what I can see in media. I must admit I see many Latinos as white, but of course, that can be because the lightest Latinos are the most popular in media (this is especially true for women, I think)- there seem to be more “darker” (in lack of a better word) men in media (or- which is always a possibility- I payed more attention to men 😉 ) They are usually seen as white in my culture.
But all in all, I agree with Y: Latinas (not sure about Lations) are presented as exotic form of whites- they are all sometimes presented as some sort of “mixed” group, in a way of superior physical appearance, in a form of exoticized white look.
LikeLike
^It’s the same with black Americans: if you were using the media as your only source, you would think the average black women is a light caramel complexion because those types tend to get more exposure.
LikeLike
Thad where did I say it would be black?
LikeLike
@ Y
I think Thad was just emphasizing the opposite end of the spectrum so that if you say “exoticized white”, the counterpoint would be “exoticized black” with the emphasis that “significant” (no matter how measured, 5%, 20%, 80%, etc…) would not necessarily mean “Black”.
LikeLike
When I said significant I meant that as “enough to affect the phenotype” I didnt know that would be lost onto Thad. The representations we have of Latinas now are relatively dark Caucasoid looking women. Given the make up of Latina America there are few world renown Latinas that look indigenous, black, or mixed(w/ Euro, indigenous, and white)…Most look like European women with good tans and bigger bottoms.
Even Adriana Lima that some consider “black” looks pretty white to me, despite her being mixed.
LikeLike
Exactly… the funny thing is that phenotype is not necessarily “genetic”, so that when someone says something like: significant mix, one can respond “What do you mean by ‘significant’? To convolute this more:
There are White Brazilians with a higher percentage of African genetic markers than say someone who “looks Black”. There are also Black Braziilans with a higher percentage of European genetic markers. So, you can essentially have a “White person” and a “Black person” where the White person has more “African genetic markers” than the Black person and vice versa.
But, simply speaking of physical appearances – even in the Brazilian media the tendency is towards more “european features.” They still have a long way to go in this regard.
LikeLike
^Tell that to FG. 🙂
LikeLike
I agree Color O’ Luv
LikeLike
I agree, Latinas are seen as an exotic form of whiteness.
LikeLike
I have a question for those of you in an interracial relationhip (black/white) that is. Do you find that other minority groups, particularly women, look at you as if they are thinking “How did you get this guy, why is he dating you? I am closer to white than you’ll ever be so he should be with me.”
It’s like they look at you as if they have been slighted.
I hope you understand what I am trying to say.
LikeLike
Y says,
When I said significant I meant that as “enough to affect the phenotype” I didnt know that would be lost onto Thad. The representations we have of Latinas now are relatively dark Caucasoid looking women. Given the make up of Latina America there are few world renown Latinas that look indigenous, black, or mixed(w/ Euro, indigenous, and white)…Most look like European women with good tans and bigger bottoms.
Even Adriana Lima that some consider “black” looks pretty white to me, despite her being mixed.
Color O’ Luv says,
But, simply speaking of physical appearances – even in the Brazilian media the tendency is towards more “european features.” They still have a long way to go in this regard.
laromana says,
Y and Color O’ Luv, thanks for the insightful, accurate comments you have made regarding the LIMITED representations of Latinas that are presented to us in the media.
As an Afrolatina, it really bothers me that Latinas that look like me are rarely shown in the media and, not surprisingly, are NOT considered as “desirable/attractive” as the stereotypical lighter/whiter looking Latinas.
LikeLike
Shan,
I have a question for those of you in an interracial relationhip (black/white) that is. Do you find that other minority groups, particularly women, look at you as if they are thinking “How did you get this guy, why is he dating you? I am closer to white than you’ll ever be so he should be with me.”
I got this sense from one Asian “friend” when she met my SO. I believe her line of thinking was “Don’t white guys love Asian women? Why is he with a black woman?!?” Too bad, my SO isn’t attracted to Asian women, as far as I can tell.
LikeLike
“Exactly… the funny thing is that phenotype is not necessarily “genetic”, so that when someone says something like: significant mix, one can respond “What do you mean by ‘significant’? To convolute this more:
There are White Brazilians with a higher percentage of African genetic markers than say someone who “looks Black”. There are also Black Braziilans with a higher percentage of European genetic markers. So, you can essentially have a “White person” and a “Black person” where the White person has more “African genetic markers” than the Black person and vice versa.”
But Latin Americans would not view this as a confusing situation because for them race is just a description of a person’s physical appearance. Your white if you have white external appearance. That’s it. Many USAmericans on the other hand would view this as a paradox because they view race as something in your genes. That’s one reason why there’s so much debate over how mixed people should be classified. Hopefully this insanity will end soon, though.
LikeLike
I got this sense from one Asian “friend” when she met my SO. I believe her line of thinking was “Don’t white guys love Asian women? Why is he with a black woman?!?” Too bad, my SO isn’t attracted to Asian women, as far as I can tell.
I’m not in an interracial relationship but women, usually Asian, have made snide comments when talking about attractive white men to me. These people are a trip.
I was talking with my roommate(who is Asian with a biracial-black/white-boyfriend) and she brought up her boyfriends best friend. She told me about how tall and cute he was(she knows I have a thing for tall men) the randomly said “Oh too bad he is white,” WTF does that mean? She already knows I dont have a problem with IRR and whites so why would she make that statement? On top of that the tone of her voice was condescending as if she meant to say “Oh to bad he’s white and you cant have him” or “He wouldnt have you”. Im not the type of person that would start interrogating someone who I perceive to be insulting me, especially if I live with them. I jsut rolled my eyes and went about my business. There was no need for me to get all “What the fcuk is that suppose to mean?”. Easier for me to just let it go.
Another time I was eating dinner with some friends (an Asian couple, single Asian female, Hispanic female,and myself). We were talking about attraction and I said I love nerds/very intelligent men. I jokingly said “I need to hang out around the engineering building to find a boyfriend” The female half of the couple said, with out hesitation “Wait, but your black!”. She realized what she said and immediately changed the subject, in the hopes that I dint catch on. Although I didn’t call her out on the comment I knew what she meant. UT is a predominately white school. Most of the engineering students are white males, followed by Asians. Obviously me being black disqualifies me as a potential girlfriend for smart non-black guys in the engineering school. Even then, there are black men in the engineering school tht I could get to know better. Yet her automatic assumption was they dont want you.
What she said didnt hurt my feelings nor did it shock me. Yes I was annoyed but I figure its better to know what people REALLY think than live a life of oblivion. Im just glad she exposed her line of thinking.
It just goes to show, even third parties with no interest in black/white romantic relationships try to make their presence known.
LikeLike
@ Y
I read your comments and can’t believe one of your friends said that. I wish you would have asked what the hell she meant by that. (I’d like to see that dance!) Sounds like your tough and have a good head on your shoulders.
@ Shan
My wife is constantly getting hit on by men of all types. To the point where she has been followed at malls, stores, etc… (even out into the parking lot) I would think most men (regardless of race/ethnic background) look at us and say, “What is she diong with THAT guy? He must be rich!” – LOL……. (Ironically, my wife will be making way more money that I will.)
LikeLike
Y and Natasha,
My sister encountered problems with SOME AW (on the West coast) who felt that due to their “favored minority” status and because they are/have been considered “more acceptable” to MANY WM/NON-BM for IRR’s than BW, that BW had “no right” to be with WM.
The WARPED/STUPID thinking of SOME of these AW was so out of control that when my sister would go out with her White boyfriend these AW would give her dirty looks, try to flirt with her boyfriend, and generally behave in an OBNOXIOUS/IRRATIONAL manner towards her and her boyfriend.
Given the ENTITLED/PATRONIZING attitudes of SOME AW who believe they are the “superior choice” of IRR partner for WM/OTHER NON-BM, I not as sympathetic to them when they complain that some men pursue AW based on the stereotypes that they’re considered “more submissve/quiet/easy to control” in comparison to NON-AW.
LikeLike
Y, you’re too nice. I would have said something to both of those girls.
“I’m not in an interracial relationship but women, usually Asian, have made snide comments when talking about attractive white men to me.”
IME, East Asians especially, don’t think too highly of blacks/black women when it comes to appearance/attractiveness. I hate to generalize, and I’m open to being proven wrong, but that’s been my experience with many.
LikeLike
Shan,
Although I’ve had some White female “friends” act befuddled that my boyfriend is White and nerdy (I think that’s what really does it, since they expect Black women to only get “w*ggers”), my boyfriend gets the opposite. He says that a lot of the guys he hangs out with (mostly White singer/songwriter types) always ask him how he could get a girl like me (some of them have even tried to flirt with me when I’m out with him!) In my experience, I’ve never had a White male express anything to me or a boyfriend about dating interracially being a “step down”.
Y,
I would’ve had something snappy to say really quick, but I tend to get that way when someone says something ignorant.
LikeLike
Color O’ and Natasha W:
Please believe it. It would have been an interesting dance. Not to get too vicious but my roommate can be overemotional, childish and downright irrational. She is the type of person that cannot admit she is wrong. Im starting to feel bad for her boyfriend, he is basically her b!tch. It wouldnt have been a fair argument and it would have just made me more pissed.
It would have been easy for me to blast these two women but its not worth it. Eleanor Roosevelt once said: “No one can make you feel inferior without your permission”. Im not going to let foolish people make me feel some way about my self. They arent running anything over here, so they can either shut up or keep it moving.
I also agree with you Natasha W, I feel they(not all) do look down on blacks more than any other race. Hell I was reading a blog (by an Asian American Male) where it was stated that NE Asians(not him personally) feel it is a “step down” to marry a SE Asian. IF the consensus is dating a darker Asian is “stepping down” image what marring a black person is, bestiality probably. I have heard Chinese people call Filipinos the “N!ggers of Asia” and subhuman, SMDH really?
It has been my experience countless times. But its okay I take people as they come to me.
LikeLike
Natasha and Laromana,
That’s why I’m surprised that negative reactions to BW/WM relationships are limited to just Black and White folks, according to what I read online. My boyfriend lives out in San Francisco, and the first extreme negative reaction we ever received was from two older Asian ladies on the bus. They were glaring so hard (without blinking!) that it really creeped me out. It was pretty ironic though, since my boyfriend has never really gone after Asian women (he’s dated one, I believe), and he said that most Asian women don’t seem to be into him anyway.
White women in general are the most blatant about giving my boyfriend the eye (their attempts at flirting don’t really go anywhere, because my boyfriend tends to mention me every other sentence :-P), but older people (White, Black, and Asian) have the most visceral reactions to us. I guess I’m lucky that no one’s ever actually spoken to us (or even whispered under their breath), since that seems to be a pretty common experience per what I read here.
LikeLike
Shoot Im in moderation..
Laromana Im sorry to hear about your sister. That is ridiculous. There are plenty of white men into Asian women, they need not concern themselves with who your sister is involved with.
From what I have noticed many Asian women feel as “entitled” to white men as white women do. I was reading a Columbia study on IRR and preferences and the Asian women in the study prefer white men to other races. Black and Asian men had the same chances with the Asian women. I will look for it and link it if I can.
LikeLike
Natasha,
I strongly agree that your statement that East Asians tend to have a NEGATIVE view of BW/BP, is correct but I believe that IGNORANT/ANTI-BW people from this group need to be held accountable/STRONGLY challenged for subscribing to RACIST/ANTI-BW thinking.
LikeLike
Jasmin, the area that my SO and I live now is mostly black and white with few other groups, so our experiences tend to follow. I’m sure our experience would be different if we lived in my hometown where there are lots of Asians.
Y,
“I was reading a Columbia study on IRR and preferences and the Asian women in the study prefer white men to other races. Black and Asian men had the same chances with the Asian women.”
This is true for most of the Asian women I know. A lot of them say they are not attracted to Asian men and have a strong preference for white men. And they think their preferences are completely natural and not affected by racism and stereotypes at all. Lol.
LikeLike
Y,
I am glad you didn’t let those comments offend you. It seems to intimidate certain folks. People don’t like to have their ways of thinking challenged. It’s too much competition out here and to see certain people dating each other, especially if its not suppose to be that way, then the cattiness and fear comes out.
I had one experience where I was at an event. Apparently my SO knows a lot of people, so we separated for a while because we were networking and talking to different people. I was trying to get to know some people. Well, I saw this Asian lady and my SO talking. I thought absolutely nothing of it until later that night she kept looking at me. I ignored it but I was wondering why she kept cutting her eyes at me. Then at times I would see her wave at my SO. I was wondering why is she waving at him. I thought maybe she was a little mentally off, but I put two and two together and figured out what was going on. May I add that my SO looks like a shorter version of George Clooney except with really dark hair.
LikeLike
Y,
Thanks for your kind sentiments and I feel the same for you.
There is NO excuse for ANY AW to think/act like they’re “better” than BW period.
I think that WM/NON-BM whose girlfriends are Black should set this type of IGNORANT/ENTITLED/RACIST/ANTI-BW AW straight and let them know, in no uncertain terms, that they’re NOT INTERESTED in them.
LikeLike
Do you any of you agree with this?
Women get cattier when its a black woman involved with a non black man vs a non black woman involved with a non black men.
I just want to read different opinions. It just seems that we black women evoke strong emotions from other people.
LikeLike
Yep that sounds familiar..
LikeLike
@Natasha W
^It’s the same with black Americans: if you were using the media as your only source, you would think the average black women is a light caramel complexion because those types tend to get more exposure.
True! Well, maybe not that light, but I did used to think African Americans are, on average, lighter than Africans.
I got this sense from one Asian “friend” when she met my SO. I believe her line of thinking was “Don’t white guys love Asian women? Why is he with a black woman?!?
Because ALL white men are attracted to ALL Asian women? 😛
Stereotypes are always harmful, and people often forget that even if something is statistically true (larger percentage of Asian women married to white men), it can never be applied to personal level- and that’s all it matters when it comes to someone’s individual experience.
@Y
Even Adriana Lima that some consider “black” looks pretty white to me, despite her being mixed.
It is true, at least in my culture. When she married a Serbian man nobody here saw it as an interracial marriage.
I am sorry to hear about Asian attitudes. I had no idea it’s like that. I like Asians, but it looks like some of them do buy into white racist stereotypes. Maybe some of them don’t realize whites might see them as model minority but they don’t see them as equal. So instead of siding with racists, it’s always better to side with others who experience racism, because, frankly, what difference does it make if someone sees you as, say, 35% inferior as the opposite of 50%? They still don’t see you as an equal, fully human, so you should not believe their harmful narratives.
LikeLike
Shan, absolutely.
LikeLike
Shan,
I think it comes out of a feeling of superiority, similar to the way you see some interactions play out between women of different sizes. I think of it as an analogy: Sometimes, a thin woman who gets rejected for a bigger woman will react with disbelief and anger she wouldn’t have if “the other woman” was thin. So she’ll say things like, “Ugh, leaving me for a fat woman is just insulting” or “How could he want that?” In her eyes, him leaving her is compounded by the fact that the woman he left her for is “beneath” her. Switch out “thin” and “fat” for “White” and “Black” and it’s the same thing. I don’t necessarily thing the situations are equivalent, but they are very similar.
LikeLike
Shan,
You may be right. I’m am surprised to hear about some of the experience that you all have had (and Laromana’s sister)! They behave like they are owed something. I haven’t really experienced any of that, but one of my
co-workers did.
She worked at VS and was the only minority. Things were alright until her white boyfriend came in and bought some lingerie for her (she wasn’t there at the time, but he told them who he was). She said those women made her experience there very unpleasant. They excluded her from events like Christmas parties, ect. Finally, she quit.
LikeLike
Shan
May I add that my SO looks like a shorter version of George Clooney except with really dark hair.
lol, Shan! 😀
Well, on the first layer, I think, women are always competitive and many of them do want all men to see THEM (and not their girlfriends, spouses) as attractive. If they happen to find the spouse in question as less attractive than them, they get angry, confused and keep thinking “why is he with HER (and not me), what does he see in her?!?” It happens whenever a woman thinks a man’s partner is less attractive than her is not limited to IR.
However, in IR, it has another layer of racism and prejudice, because white women (and not just them, I guess) see themselves- no matter how they actually look- always more attractive than black women. Even if you’re a plain white Jane who is rarely considered attractive, you see yourself as more attractive than a black woman, so you could “forgive” a handsome Clooney look-a-like to date an attractive white woman… But black? Like Jasmin put it, only if said black woman is universally praised (Halle Berry, Beyonce) a white woman might realize why a white man would pick a black woman instead of her.
I don’t know what happens in reverse situations: black women watching a black man with a non-black (say, white) woman?
LikeLike
Mira,
“I don’t know what happens in reverse situations: black women watching a black man with a non-black (say, white) woman?”
I don’t care, since I don’t have a strong preference for black men. All men are fair game to me. The only man I feel entitled to is my SO.
LikeLike
I didn’t mean personally, but whether you think black women have the same attitude? I don’t think they do (but obviously this is just a speculation from my part). I know there is a stereotype of a bitter, angry black woman who hates to see “her” men dating out, but usually it’s given in a form of loyalty to the community and sadness to see yet another black man choosing a non-black woman, NOT in a form of “why would he date HER when I’m better because I’m black and she’s not”.
Don’t get me wrong, ladies, I know it’s a stereotype. But even as a stereotype, it is rarely mentioned in a form of “I’m better than HER”. Personally, I do believe black women can be jealous like any other women and to believe they, personally, are better looking than another girl. However, due to the stereotypes/media culture/racism that shows black women (as a group) less attractive than other groups of women, I don’t think black women have this mindset in which they see themselves better just because of their race (like women of other races, especially white, seem to have).
LikeLike
I agree with all your points to the questioned I posed.
But here’s another one: Do you think it may depend on how the black woman looks?
As Mira stated, if the black woman was seen as universally beautiful,then they may not have so much of a problem, particularly if the black woman has similar features as they do such as Halle B.
LikeLike
Mira, oh, okay. I do think some black women feel a sense of disloyalty when a black man dates a non-black woman, particular a white one. These are typically the black women that feel that black men are their only options and/or have been raised to feel that blacks should stick together no matter what. It doesn’t tend to be out of a sense of superiority over the woman.
Shan,
“But here’s another one: Do you think it may depend on how the black woman looks?
Slightly. But even so, it’s still “I know she’s pretty, but she’s black?!?
LikeLike
But here’s another one: Do you think it may depend on how the black woman looks?
I think it does; it always does, to some degree. But I think these girls have really high (twisted) standards on how black women should look in order to be “acceptable” (as in, “I can see why he’s with her”). While a white woman doesn’t have to be Angelina Jolie or Megan Fox to be seen as more attractive than the girl who is judging her, a black woman has to be Halle Berry* or else she wouldn’t be seen as “acceptable”.
*Halle Berry (Jasmin’s example) is a good example because she is what most of the whites see as the height of black beauty. There are other, more beautiful black women, but if their type of beauty is not universally praised (by whites) girl judging her would not understand.
As for Jasmin’s analogy with fat girls, it’s pretty accurate, I think. While being fat is not the same as being black, to white girls (usually those who don’t understand privilege) it might be closer than you think. Many whites, after all, especially those colour blind racists, think of race in cosmetic terms or something. So while they don’t have anything against black people and don’t hate black people, they do see them as inferior, especially in looks department. (I might be wrong here, but that’s definitely the vibe I’m getting from some white (American) girls).
LikeLike
Natasha,
Please don’t get me wrong, I don’t really think black women care about who’s black men are dating- not nearly as much as people claim they do anyway. (I don’t know many black women (none in real life) but the ladies I met online, none of them seem to be concerned about what other people do in their personal lives, unless they do it with their partners of course). So it’s just another stereotype, I think, targeted to make black women seem desperate, angry, etc.
I just wanted to point that, even with this stereotype, it’s never mentioned black women see themselves as superior based on their race alone (“I am black so he (black, white or whatever) should find ME attractive, and not this girl”). This mindset seems to be dominant with non-black women, especially white ones. It sounds crazy but I am afraid it is true.
LikeLike
Mira,
“Halle Berry (Jasmin’s example) is a good example because she is what most of the whites see as the height of black beauty. There are other, more beautiful black women, but if their type of beauty is not universally praised (by whites) girl judging her would not understand.”
My SO is much fonder of Toni Braxton and Gabrielle Union. He thinks Halle is pretty, but plain.
Since I feel like sharing, this is a picture of my SO (as a tike); he’s on the left:
[I’ll probably remove the photo in a day or so.]
LikeLike
Shan says,
Do you any of you agree with this?
Women get cattier when its a black woman involved with a non black man vs a non black woman involved with a non black men.
I just want to read different opinions. It just seems that we black women evoke strong emotions from other people.
laromana says,
Shan, I attribute these “catty attitudes” from certain women of ALL RACES towards BW in IRR’s to the HISTORICAL ANTI-BW RACISM that is a fundamental part of American culture.
EVERYONE in the culture has been taught to view BW in a WARPED/NEGATIVE/RACIST manner via the RACIST ANTI-BW LIES/MYTHS/STEREOTYPES that are CONSTANTLY/CONSISTLENTLY presented to the public in American media.
As a result of the constant TRASHING of the HUMANITY/DIGNITY/FEMININITY of BW in American society, EVERYONE seems to think they’re “better” than BW and that they aren’t “worthy” of LOVE/PROTECTION/RESPECT.
That’s why it’s CRITICAL that BW/PRO-BW advocates help DESTROY ANTI-BW LIES/MYTHS/STEREOTYPES and begin promoting TRUTHFUL/POSITIVE/ACCURATE images of BW that CORRECT the MISREPRESENTATIONS of BW and our DIGNITY/FEMININITY/HUMANITY.
LikeLike
My SO is much fonder of Toni Braxton and Gabrielle Union. He thinks Halle is pretty, but plain.
To be honest, I don’t know any guy who really prefers Halle to other famous black women (or non-black women for that matter). Still, I do think white women would see Halle as a bigger “threat” because she might fit their ideas of beauty better than some other black women.
What a cute picture! I bet he grew up to be a really handsome guy 😉
LikeLike
Eh, he’s okay now. 🙂
LikeLike
@Laromana
I agree with your last statement! I think it is highly important that we as black women unite! Because of the anti-bw attitude in the media, I sometimes think that black women are suspicious of each other! We can’t let stereotypes cause us to believe the worst about each other! A house divided cannot stand! We as black women must come together in terms of boycotting and refusing to indulge in anti-bw media, like most hip-hop music and many movies! We must teach our children that black is and has always been beautiful! And we must demand respect from the people who are closest to us! And finally, selflove is important! Refuse to accept the lies that people want us to believe about ourselves! Recognize Black woman that you are beautiful both inside and out! Forget the haters! Don’t let anyone take your joy!
LikeLike
Mira,
“Please don’t get me wrong, I don’t really think black women care about who’s black men are dating- not nearly as much as people claim they do anyway. (I don’t know many black women (none in real life) but the ladies I met online, none of them seem to be concerned about what other people do in their personal lives, unless they do it with their partners of course). So it’s just another stereotype, I think, targeted to make black women seem desperate, angry, etc. “
There are some black women that do care. But yes, it seems blown out of proportion, IME. I specifically watch reactions of black women to black male/white female couples when I go out (there are a lot of these couples in my area). I’ve seen eye rolls, giggles, and stares from black women, but I also see many go out of their way not to look at the couple or react at all. Probably because they know they are expected to.
LikeLike
Well, I guess IR relationships are still not seen as the norm (in a way they are universally accepted) so that draws attention. Also, I understand to some people (of all races and both genders) dating out is a painful subject. Still, I don’t buy black women are exception in a way they are more desperate, more angry, more disapproving than others. It’s either a stereotype or other groups are better at hiding it.
But I’d go with the stereotype thing- not in a way there are absolutely no black women who react this way- but in a way media, researches and maybe even regular folks are focusing too much on black women because black women are labeled “the weakest link” of some sorts (sorry for the analogy, not sure how to call it) when it comes to dating, dating out and are seen as the most loyal to their group (of course, this brings us to the questions: why? Why are black women seen as such, why would dating out be seen as disloyal, and- really important- why is always black woman the one who is questioned about her motives, about her choices in life and about her beliefs, and not the other groups involved?) In short, why are everybody so fixated on black women in this matter and not on other groups? It’s all down to racism, I think.
LikeLike
Natasha,
Awww! He (and his brother, I assume) are little cuties! Wow, his hair is blonde! Is it still that light?
LikeLike
The blonde hair thing for kids is interesting. There are many white kids who have blonde, almost white hair, but it gets darker when they grow up. My husband is one of them- his hair is almost completely black today. It’s certainly not a rare thing here.
I heard this can happen even with non-white kids.
LikeLike
Mira,
Very true. My boyfriend always jokes about looking like “a little Aryan child” (his words) as a baby, despite being Jewish.
LikeLike
There are some black women that do care. But yes, it seems blown out of proportion, IME. I specifically watch reactions of black women to black male/white female couples when I go out (there are a lot of these couples in my area). I’ve seen eye rolls, giggles, and stares from black women, but I also see many go out of their way not to look at the couple or react at all. Probably because they know they are expected to.
Yeah a lot of black women DO get bent out of shape when they see a black man with a non-black (especially white) woman. But the majority really doesnt care. The thing is there are a lot of fools on TV that will play that bitter black woman role and have people think most black women are like that. Not true, I have never in meet a black woman that care who a black man dates.
LikeLike
I think many don’t care now because its so common.
LikeLike
I also notice that some people in BM/WF relationships interpret anything less than a smile as hostility. As someone who enjoys people-watching, I’m not likely to believe that someone looking at me is automatically a bad thing. Plus, I encounter people who look familiar to me all the time, and I’m sure I generally give them a glance or two trying to figure out if I know them or not. But I also see very few good-looking Black guys with White girls (not to imply that only ugly/average Black guys date White girls), so I don’t see a reason for an “angry Black woman” to care in the first place.
LikeLike
@ Camille – well I believe it is safe to say when you label someone you don’t know as having low self esteem, desperate, a self-hater, racist, etc. it is BOUND to ignite a fire – UNLESS they truly DO have low or no self-esteem.
So here is my fire. I notice that the women who have responded to my posts had a very quick read. He is ONLY interested in being “FwB’s” /a Booty Call.
The WM have responded by saying, he may be interested in those things, but he could also be interested in more – time will tell. I can now see why “some” BW have been labeled as high strung, opinionated and agressive.
“I” am the type of woman that likes to “learn” who a person is & how they think; IF I “CHOOSE” to. Listening to “Jim” explain what “COULD” make him nervous does NOT mean I have Low Self Esteem, no more than listening to my BM friends pop off about how WM really aren’t attracted to BW. Actually I appreciate the honesty & prefer to know ahead of time. NOT that I agree with you or the other women that have said he only want’s a Booty Call/FwB’s relationship. He might & he might not ~ then again I might just want that as well, who knows…time will certainly be the best judge…
LikeLike
@ Paul 🙂
Whew…where were you several days/posts ago?? – LOL. Hmm, where do I start. I agree and/or have experienced almost everything you posted. I was married for 14 years to a shy/introverted type, so you are right on the money with that assessment. I also agree with you on how a man will pursue a woman, regardless of his color/race.
I believe my mistake was posting to this sight WAY too early. A lot of responses from women, seem to lend itself to having been out with “Jim” on several dates/months – which simply is NOT the case. It took him several months to contact me after the plane ride and then it went from there. With phone calls, texting, etc., until I went out to his place. Which of course he wanted to do the “Machismo” thing and show me the ranch & the pool, etc., etc. ~I will admit that I was impressed, but what impressed me the most was when he mentioned the cleaning ladies name & the day’s she comes out – LMAO (kind of an inside joke between me & my “B” female friends).
I posted to this sight to try and get a better read on the ONE item he said he would like for me to give him some time to deal with. Now I don’t know which was worse, the responses from my BM friends or the responses from the women on this sight…You would have thought the man said, “I want you to come out here, your new name will be – KIZZEE and make sure you have my shoes shined and breakfast on the table by 6a.m.!” ~ Just so there is no misunderstanding, THAT would NOT have flown with me – AT ALL, nor do I believe that was his intent ~
LikeLike
@ Paul continued
I will say that I try to find the Lesson(s) Learned (LL)in each & every situation. LL1 – BM do not like to hear about BW dating outside of our race, especially the educated, attractive ones. I believe laromana mentioned this & a BM friend also reiterated the same statement (I was oblivious to this previously, because it had never come up as a real possibility). LL2 – I’m not sure “People” truly understand where we are in the U.S. today when it comes to race relations. Meaning, several people have said, if he wants to be with you, then he will do it. If not, he’s a closet racist, only after 1 thing, he may have weak character and on & on. I believe those types of sentiments would be warranted IF the U.S. past & present race relations were different. I would have thought President Obama would have won the election by a landslide (against his opponents), but guess what – he didn’t. That’s not to take away from the fact he did win, I’m just saying, “ALL are NOT color blind,” we still have a very real history & changing people’s mind/mindset takes time.
How this relates to my situation is that I’m guessing a 45+yo WM from the South who has NEVER dated outside of his race & has grown children would want to proceed with caution/slower speed. Not to mention having his own business – a lot of people seem to think that owning his OWN business would make it easier – not necessarily. When you are in a business that is not very diversified (remember even corporations were/are MADE to diversify & it continues to be something that has to be pushed) & is family run/owned; it can make things very sticky. I AM NOT giving him a pass, just wanted to remind people that we are not in an OASIS – yet 🙂
You (and anyone else who mentioned it) are correct when you say he may NEVER get there, which is fine. After all of this, I would be interested in he & I being friends just so I will have an inside track to a WM who was attracted to a BW, but wasn’t willing or able to overcome the obstacles…Hmm…kinda sounds like Thomas Jefferson to me!
LikeLike
Lynn
Your hesitation and expression of it on this site is what led me to draw the conclusions that I did. I based that on your own doubts. I wrote according to that mood because I feel only you can be that attuned to your own intuition regarding this man.
I’m not sure how two white men’s responses disqualify that.
I’m not sure I follow how that can be read as calling you a self hater, racist or having low self esteem. If you’ll scroll upwards you’ll find I did nothing of the sort. Someone else did. I’m baffled as to why you regard that as opinionated, highly strung and aggressive, and white men aren’t, because they support/excuse actions of a man who so far has hesitated from the get go.
You see, as good intentioned as that may be, or exposes their blinkered good guy natures, they don’t necessarily have the benefit of being on the receiving end.
It’s a form of solidarity that may not want to acknowledge a few bad apples in their midst.
Of course you should take your time Lynn, and tread carefully.
LikeLike
@ MerriMay,
I sit corrected when I said, “the women,” in my last post. I believe you and Laromana gave your thoughts and opinion without being condescending. Thanks for calling me on it and I offer my apologies to the both of you.
My reaction was specifically towards 4foot6/Sixft4 (or whatever he calls himself) and Camille. Name calling, labeling, etc. really isn’t necessary when a person is asking a question for clarification or to hear other experiences.
Either way, I believe the situation with “Jim” is a done deal anyways. Directly due to the responses I received, I pretty much called him to the carpet via text & I haven’t heard from him in the last few days – LOL. Again, I would still love to be friends with “Jim” to gain insight – how interesting would it have been to understand Thomas Jeffererson & his thoughts/feelings on Sally Hemings, Slavery and his obviously conflicting viewpoints/status in the community???
LikeLike
how interesting would it have been to understand Thomas Jeffererson & his thoughts/feelings on Sally Hemings, Slavery and his obviously conflicting viewpoints/status in the community???
how interesting would it have been to understand Thomas Jeffererson & his thoughts/feelings on Sally Hemings, Slavery and his obviously conflicting viewpoints/status in the community???
[Snort]
Ad if that’s hard. Read Freyre’s “Masters and the Slaves”. End of story.
LikeLike
Thanks for clarifying Lynn.
LikeLike
“But I also see very few good-looking Black guys with White girls (not to imply that only ugly/average Black guys date White girls), so I don’t see a reason for an “angry Black woman” to care in the first place.”
100% agree and I say this all of the time! Even in Hollywood, when you think of the bm/ww ir couples, the men who are revered as handsome are normally the ones with bw.
When I am out, it’s the same. The gorgeous men with the best swaggers are mostly with black women.
Lynn,
That’s too bad. Maybe he FELT that you were being accusatory (even though you may not have been) and that’s why he hasn’t contacted you.
LikeLike
@ Thad
I was reading Lynn’s comments and thinking, “I’ll bet dollars to donuts that Thad is going to chime in on the Jefferson remark.” – lol
@ Lynn
Just remember that relationships can be complicated for various reasons. I hope things work out for you no matter what, whether it is a relationship with this guy or the next.
@ Jasmin
I’ve had an Italian friend who was born with fine/straight platinum blond hair and kept it until about the age of 7 – 8. Afterwards, it slowly changed into coarse jet black curls. Talk about metamorphosis! lol Similiar experience with myself only I had red/auburn hair. My wife and I have no idea what our children are going to look like. They literallly may be Black or White, or any imaginable phenotype.
LikeLike
Jasmin,
“Awww! He (and his brother, I assume) are little cuties! Wow, his hair is blonde! Is it still that light?”
Thanks. 🙂 That’s his best friend though, not brother; he only has sisters.
His hair is still blond, but not that platinum blond color anymore. It’s darker now, like this color:
[I hate to compare him to Spencer Pratt, but it was the nearest example I could find.]
“But I also see very few good-looking Black guys with White girls (not to imply that only ugly/average Black guys date White girls), so I don’t see a reason for an “angry Black woman” to care in the first place.”
…You said it this time, not me. :X
LikeLike
Lynn,
I am sorry for what happened, but it’s always best to know early on. Now, the guy might be a loser, maybe yes, maybe not- we don’t know it. Any advice we can give you here is not the same as the real experience; you know the guy better than we do. I guess there are white guys who date inter racially all the time, and there are the ones who want black women for sex only. There are, I guess, those who are in between, so it’s up to you, and you only, to decide what you want to tolerate and what not; if you want to educate the guy on some things or not, and to see whether he’s just confused and wants to go for it or is just looking for an “exotic” experiment with a black woman.
Color O’ Luv,
It happens all the time here, kids with blonde/light brown hair growing up to be dark haired. It’s nothing unusual.
It was different with me, though: my hair was jet black when I was a kid and now it’s a bit lighter, dark brown, and I learned (the hard way) that I have a lot of “hidden” red pigment in my hair.
LikeLike
Thanks. 🙂 That’s his best friend though, not brother; he only has sisters.
I thought it was his brother!
I must admit I’m not a huge fan of blonde/light brown hair, but “Spencer Pratt” (never heard of the guy before, btw) hair colour looks good. So shame on me.
LikeLike
^Lol, why did you think they were brothers? Because they are dressed (or half-dressed ;)) similarly? I don’t think they look anything alike, then or now, except they are around the same height (6’4″ish).
LikeLike
I have no idea. I thought they had similar facial features… Then again, I am the worst person to judge who looks like whom; I never remember faces and people tell me I find random people to look alike, when in fact, they don’t.
It’s great they’re still good friends. 🙂
6’4”… Nice height!
LikeLike
^Maybe it’s the photo, because they don’t have similar features. I think if he was here, he would say “What? All white people look alike?!” 🙂
I meant to reply to this:
“Well, I guess IR relationships are still not seen as the norm (in a way they are universally accepted) so that draws attention. Also, I understand to some people (of all races and both genders) dating out is a painful subject. Still, I don’t buy black women are exception in a way they are more desperate, more angry, more disapproving than others. It’s either a stereotype or other groups are better at hiding it.”
It isn’t only a black female thing. Believe me — I’ve seen all types of women get possessive over “their” men. Eastern European women when I was with my Bulgarian ex, Chinese women when I was with a half white/half Chinese guy in college (the latter case is really funny because no Asian women would pay attention to him until I started dating him).
LikeLike
I can only speak of Eastern European women. And yes, they are often possessive (while not having any problems dating out)*
*By dating out, I mean dating outside the group, be it ethnic group, race, or whatever.
Still, Eastern European guys don’t like to see EE women dating out, while many don’t have problems dating out. It’s just how it goes, I guess.
But the hypocrisy/possessiveness when it comes to dating out is equal among men and women, I think. What someone’s father (family) thinks might be a different thing- it’s generally more acceptable for a guy to date out then a girl. I think. Not sure.
LikeLike
“What? All white people look alike?!”
😀
On a serious note, I sometimes wonder whether non-whites think all whites look alike, or are they bombarded with whites from media and all over the place to just have to notice the difference. Or maybe “they all look alike” crap is exclusively a white ignorant thing.
In any case, I never bought the “X group all look alike”, maybe because it was never the case with me. I might not remember faces, but it doesn’t seem to matter whether it’s a white person or not.
It is a harmful way of making the whole group of humans seem uniform, unimportant, inferior- while you constantly keep ignoring them.
LikeLike
“But the hypocrisy/possessiveness when it comes to dating out is equal among men and women, I think. What someone’s father (family) thinks might be a different thing- it’s generally more acceptable for a guy to date out then a girl. I think. Not sure.”
Hmmm, my family isn’t tolerant of dating out, for anyone (dating black wo/men is considered dating out). Hence they disapprove of my relationship and hope I’ll get over it soon and find my real husband (not likely since a little birdie told me my SO is planning on proposing soon. ;)). But for my brother it is crucial not to date out, because he has to “carry on the family name.”
“On a serious note, I sometimes wonder whether non-whites think all whites look alike, or are they bombarded with whites from media and all over the place to just have to notice the difference. Or maybe “they all look alike” crap is exclusively a white ignorant thing.”
I do think whites have a tendency to think other people look alike, but non-whites aren’t immune to this kind of thinking. I’m unsure if most blacks think whites look alike; my guess is that they do. I’ve heard several blacks (and whites) say that all Asians look alike. I think Asians are the offical “all look alike” group to Americans, with Africans coming in a close second.
LikeLike
But for my brother it is crucial not to date out, because he has to “carry on the family name.
Interesting. But I thought that’s the idea of guys can- girl’s can’t date out, because the child and the family name will stay within man’s family, but if a daughter dates out, she “loses” her name and her child will be a member of another group and not her?
Then again, there are many groups who see women as “keeper of the group identity and blood”, so in order to be considered a member of a group, you must come from a womb of a woman belonging to said group.
To be honest, not sure what to think here. There are many mixed marriages in my family (I am mixed, my husband is mixed, etc), and I never observed any difference in terms who is more acceptable to date out (then again, our parent’s generation didn’t pay attention to it, and despite recent Balkan… misunderstandings, it was never an issue for me and my husband). But then again, to those who disapprove, I can’t really determine whether they disapprove more if it’s their daughter or a son.
LikeLike
As for “they all look alike”, I always thought it was a nasty remark people say in order to make another group look inferior, along with “they are smelly”, or “they are stupid”, or whatever. I had no idea some people really can’t tell a difference between blacks, or Asians, etc.
Like I said, I have a different problem. For example, I think a guy from my class (white) looks like Wesley Snipes.
LikeLike
“Interesting. But I thought that’s the idea of guys can- girl’s can’t date out, because the child and the family name will stay within man’s family, but if a daughter dates out, she “loses” her name and her child will be a member of another group and not her?”
The way they see it is that the daughter will become part of another family anyway when she marries (she’ll take on the man’s last name, move away, etc).
“I had no idea some people really can’t tell a difference between blacks, or Asians, etc.”
No, the average American can’t tell various Asian groups apart. As for blacks, I think whites especially can’t tell the difference. And if two blacks do happen to share some similarities, then they’re identical twins. It’s funny, when Cassie first came out as a singer, my sister said we look alike. And I thought “If even she thinks we look like, white people will definitely think so.” And sure enough, I hear it all the time.
LikeLike
Natasha,
(Premature) congratulations! 😉
I didn’t really look at their faces, I just assumed because they were two similarly-dressed little kids. I have a lot of sisters (no brothers as well), so I always assume “pictures of multiple kids” = siblings since that’s what 99% of our photos are. 🙂
Islandgirl,
I read all of these stories about Black women seeing “that fine brother from such-and-such” with a White woman, and I’m thinking, where are these men? 😛
LikeLike
Thanks, Jasmin. 🙂
And I’d like to know where these men are too. Celebrities don’t count.
LikeLike
Early congrats Natasha! Your so was a cutie. That’s a compliment to look like Cassie, she is gorgeous!
Yes, ladies – that is just a myth. I love Jasmin’s take on these issues in her writings. It’s very interesting to get other’s persepctives to know that you aren’t alone in your thoughts.
LikeLike
I can tell some Asian groups apart. I can tell a Korean from a Japanese. I can spot a Philipino.
Now to me Africans look vastly different. I can spot an Ethiopian, Somalian, Nigerian, a someone from North Africa and someone from the South African region.
LikeLike
Mira,
I agree with your previous post, but its strange how that way of thinking is since a woman has to be involved with that man who is dating out. So either way someone’s family is being “inconvenienced.” This is the burden that women have, particularly in the AA community. AA women are expected to sit back and be bitter and hold the community together while the AA men go out and have fun. There are other AA women who get mad at other AA women who date out, but secretly they are jealous because they think that a non black man wouldn’t be interested in them. I know this for a fact.
LikeLike
Thanks, islandgirl.
Shan, same here. Probably because I grew up in a city with nearly every ethnicity in the book (high school was 60+ percent Asian).
“There are other AA women who get mad at other AA women who date out, but secretly they are jealous because they think that a non black man wouldn’t be interested in them.”
I usually don’t get hostility from black women. Quite the opposite, actually. The only black women who gave me flack about it were friends, and recently, a few older black women associates. The former because they say I “don’t like black men/white men are racist,” and the latter because of their history (they grew up in the Jim Crow South).
LikeLike
Islandgirl,
Thanks! One of the reasons I like reading and commenting here is that it finally validated that I’m not crazy. 😛
Shan,
I can distinguish Korean, Japanese, Chinese, and Vietnamese people from one another, and they really don’t look much alike to me. (I think that’s because I was a research assistant in a multicultural psych lab that did a lot of work on Asian-American acculturation.) Oddly, in Spain every Asian person is called “chino/a”, regardless of background, though the irony is that most “chinos” are actually Japanese.
All that talk about Black women holding the Black community together is nonsense IMO. What about the Black women who grew up in predominantly non-Black areas, attended non-Black schools, and/or work in non-Black areas? The reality is that increasing numbers of Black people (Black women especially) are part of a theoretical Black community, not a physical one, and their choices in partners often reflect that, not some grand conspiracy to get back at Black men.
LikeLike
Jasmin,
All that talk about Black women holding the Black community together is nonsense IMO. What about the Black women who grew up in predominantly non-Black areas, attended non-Black schools, and/or work in non-Black areas? The reality is that increasing numbers of Black people (Black women especially) are part of a theoretical Black community, not a physical one, and their choices in partners often reflect that, not some grand conspiracy to get back at Black men.
laromana says,
Jasmin, thanks for posting this important point of FACT regarding BW and the so called “BC”.
LikeLike
@ Natasha W:
I hear this all the time, “You guys all look the same.” This really irks me because I always get, “Are you Chinese?” If people guessed the first Asian ethnicity incorrectly, then they go through a list of Asian ethnicities until they eventually name the right one. And after that, they say, “Well, you don’t look Filipino. You look Chinese.” (Yup, our features look alilke.) *sarcasm*Just once, I wish someone would guess my ethnicity correctly.
LikeLike
Ok, I must admit I can’t tell various Asian ethnicities apart. In my defense, I can’t tell various European ethnicities apart, so I’m hoping it’s just “me” and not a nasty prejudice or something.
LikeLike
@Mira:
There are some clues that will tell you what ethnic background an Asian person may be. It’s not always about appearances. For example, I’m Filipino and many Filipinos, not all, have a Spanish surname due to colonization. Filipinos tend to be shorter, darker complected, fuller figured (I don’t mean heavy) compared to Chinese, Japanese, and Koreans. Filipinos have a main dialect called Tagalog and if you listen closely, there are sprinklings of Spanish loan words thrown in. Most likely, this person you came across is Filipino. Btw, when guessing an Asian ethnicity, remember to look for clues rather than making assumptions.
LikeLike
Thanks for the info, leigh!
I don’t know, I never tried this “guess the ethnicity” on a real person (isn’t it better to, well… ask?) and I know I can’t tell a difference between various Balkan ethnicites let alone Asian. And many people claim they can do this (for any ethnicity) so good for them. I guess this goes with the lack of ability to remember faces.
In any way, I did notice that 9 times out of 10, he’s Filipino. I’m not joking. (Ok, maybe 8 times out of 10), but there’s definitely a pattern!
LikeLike
Leigh, I’m with Mira. I am able to distinguish Vietnamese because my ex was that. Thank yhou for the insight.
LikeLike
*thank you
LikeLike
lynn -I just felt it was odd that a bw would want to pursue a relationship with a wm who did not want to introduce her around his friends and family. That is a major warning sign for any woman of any race. I say this as bw who has only been in relationships with wm(I don’t seek out wm). I also don’t understand your digg at bw. Aren’t you a bw? As for Thomas Jeferson and Sally hemmings, Jefferson viewed her as his property. Jeferson was a racist and he actually believed bw in africa had sex with orangutans. I also don’t understand why people especially bw want to romanticize the jefferon/hemmings relationship.
Laramona and meerimay- Excellent points as usual. It’s is not our job as bw to get racist anti- bw to like us.
LikeLike
Leigh,
You’re right, one of my best friends, a filipino guy has a last name called Aragones. It’s very easy to tell Filipino, Japanese, Chinese, and esp Thai apart. Living in Vancouver and Dusseldorf(Germany) taught me that, those areas have large Asian communities.
LikeLike
MerriMay,
I also think what led me to the “all female” conclusions had to do with my posts being the same, but interpreted differently down the gender line.
The females interpretation being FwB’s and the males being maybe, maybe not.
Upon further reflection & considering a BM friends advice (a long time ago)…he said, “Lynn, the sooner you accept that ANY man who is attracted to you is NOT thinking in his mind – WOW, she has a great personality and I would love to be her FRIEND, the better off you will be!” He & I have been friends a LONG time and he has often told me that he hates it when I refer to him as a friend because he would quickly take me up on more…
All of that being said, I will say I took the FwB/BtyCl comments as being negative, when really, it all depends on how you look at it. I’m at a point in my life where I have been married, I have 2 beautiful children, I have my education and work experience so I’m not necessarily looking to get married (in the near future) or have more children. I am at a point where I am ready to have F U N w/out things getting too bogged down.
I would prefer someone who is fun loving, easy going, financially secure and willing to try new things WITHOUT “baby mama” drama, alimony/child support woes or family feuding. The reality is, I’m not sure HE exists in ANY color. So until then, Friends with Benefits might work for me – as long as I’m happy with the benefits 🙂
LikeLike
Lynn,
There’s nothing really wrong with “friends with benefits”- but only if both parties involved agree that’s all they are. It’s really bad when woman (or, a man- hey, it can happen!) believes it’s a real relationship that can turn into something more, while the other party see it as just sex.
I guess we all assumed you want some more from this relationship.
LikeLike
Let me make it real simple for you folks.
The ONLY thing white men are attracted to (at least 80% of the ones I dated) are THIN women.
I have seen them with beautiful thin women.
I have seen them with ugly thin women.
Short, tall, natural hair, relaxed hair, dark skinned, light skinned, none of that is a deciding factor for them just weight.
Even when I gain a few lbs I notice the difference.
LikeLike
I visited Brooklyn last summer and I saw many interracial couplings. I specifically took notice to some HOT white men with beautiful black, brown, and yellow sistahs. Natural hair, straight hair, frizzy hair, HEALTHY HAIR and sometimes locks were their choices. In the subway, at a pool hall, sitting in the outdoor area of a restaurant, walking down the street…..I never noticed it so much! What struck me the most is that the women appeared to be at peace–HAPPY az their dates gazed adoringly 😉
I began to think hmmmmm—I’d like to try that………
As a peanut-butter toned woman who resides in Chicago, with natural shoulder length coily locks—though I change it up quite often as I am a hair stylist and frequently wear sew-in’s of various hues—most men are attracted to me. I have nothing negative to say about black men. I love them…my DAD was a black man as well as my President, which is why I dated them exclusively until recently. However, based on my past dating experiences, I have FINALLY chosen to take the road less traveled. NYC confirmed that I should at least venture OUT….lol.
Best decision that I made in 2009.
Abagond
to your point of what is preferred by white men….well, that question is foremost in my mind and comes up fairly soon during conversation. ALL of them who I’ve posed this question to LOVE the beauty of black women period. In a room of all races they will automatically draw to ME thinking I’m the fairest of them all. That aside, they had their preferences and it had little to do with complexion and features.
One guy’s celebrity crush is Nia Long. He loved her look and her image. His preference is the Michelle Obama type–poWERfuL, ambitious, well-read, cultured, and well-spoken. The type that he would encounter at his workplace. Some years ago, a NYC publication cast Nia Long in a light that he interpreted as “ghetto” and that, my friends, was the end of his crush.
Another guy says his top 5 faves (onsight) are Regina King (he loved her on 227), Janet Jackson (from childhood), Corrine Bailey Rae (British accents and her singing voice), Sheryl Lee Ralph (Brandy’s stepmom from MOESHA), and Thandie Newton (british) accent.
Another friend is married to a white woman with blue eyes who prefers a LisaRaye type. His first girlfriend was black but married an italian like him to keep still waters.
a few tidbits
–male friends of mine both white and black prefer Kelly Rowland to Beyonce –OR–Sade to Halle
–I get a healthy amount of attention with my own natural locks but when I have 18 inches flowing down my back EVERY MAN NOTICES ME….or when it’s blonde.
All I know is that if I had to pick a celebrity that I’m most attracted to it would be BoriS Kodjoe or Bradley Cooper because they are fine azz wine in the summertime …..to me. We are all influenced by the media in some ways but those fantasies don’t reflect my reality. MY MAN IS attractive to me, but he knows I want to make out with any two of the above…I digress…..lol
My grandfather always said “LIKE WHO LIKES YOU”
I AM exotic to my man….crazy too…but he loves me more and he tells me….and that makes me unconcerned with those whose radar I don’t fall under.
LikeLike
Nearly spat my tea out over this part:
”Another friend is married to a white woman with blue eyes who prefers a LisaRaye type. His first girlfriend was black but married an italian like him to keep still waters”
When will these men ever learn to grow balls.
But I’d agree with you on Bradley Cooper, quite yummy, you can throw in Scarlet Johannssen’s hubby in too 😉
LikeLike
MerriMay,
Maybe its a good thing that those weak minded type of men don’t marry black women. Black women don’t need men who are not strong enough to stand up for them.
LikeLike
@ Merrimay–THAT dude definitely has balls….but he is older an guy from an italian family and he felt it wasn’t worth the battle. I won’t judge him based on his decision to marry who he did based on whatever his experience was at that time. He has no regrets and he has a beautiful family…..AND he still has his preferences
LikeLike
@ Merrimay—-I’ve been in love with Josh Duhamel since he first appeared on All My Children.
LikeLike
@ Leigh204
Americans can be lazy and ignorant (having no exposure), sometimes butchering peoples names just because they don’t take the time to READ and pronounce—-or at least try—-correctly.
No, you all don’t all look alike AT ALL. I have a girlfriend who is African-American who has been mistaken for a Fillipino since childhood. So I’ve made it a point to recognize the differences between the various Asian ethnic groups.
LikeLike
@KimZ
Ah, one of my friends is Trinidadian-Canadian and she’s always mistaken for Filipino, too. Isn’t it interesting?
LikeLike
Black women that white men like…
I myself am a white male in my twenties. Being male physical attraction plays a large role in choosing a mate, but is definitely not the only factor. There are so many preferences out there it’s almost impossible to categorize and stereotype them. Particularly for myself I find physical attributes among African American women to be most appealing.
I love the way their dark skin appears so smooth, flawless, and elegant in sunlight. Maybe it’s seeing a difference from my tone, I can’t really explain it. I don’t rank the beauty or importance of a black woman according to her skin tone. I’m not sure if others feel the same way, but for me it doesn’t work like that.
Some of the generalizations I read about as far as type of physique and shape a white man would prefer for an African American woman are definitely individually made up. As for me I prefer an athletic or slender shaped black woman over a thicker. Both shapes are beautiful, but I believe the reason why deals with commonality of hobbies and interests.
Since I’m on the topic of shape, the size of what she’s got in back for some white guys (I’m sure the same goes with different races of men choosing different races of women as well) can be a turn on or turn off. For me I find a big firm butt that is well rounded and sticks out to be amazingly attractive! Exactly why this is I don’t know. It could possibly tie into fitting some type of ingrained search for good health in a mate or athletic abilities. Aesthetically I find her butt to be a beautiful compliment all throughout her shape. I know that there are other white men that completely disagree with me and find a smaller behind to be attractive; including if not every, then close to all of my white friends.
So then next the thought may be does what she has in front (her chest) matter more, the same, or not really at all? Again, individual preference. Generally I can say just from hearing conversations white males pay more attention to breast size than hips or butt size when the two are commonly compared. I can’t explain why other than blaming it on genetics. For me I would have to choose the “not really at all” option.
I’ve read a couple different generalizations attempting to describe what facial structures white men prefer in black women. Once again, these preferences are individually made up. Every generalization mentioned that whether consciously or subconsciously white men search for some “whiteness” within facial structure which includes a thinner nose, thinner lips, etc. However, I am on the opposite end. I love seeing her full lips, a wider nose that seems to be gently placed and spread, high cheek bones… a work of beauty.
I’ve heard opinions about the hair style she wears equally. I’m not sure if a generalization can even be made here. I haven’t heard or read enough to make one, so I’ll just leave you with what I think. The way I feel is this… an African American woman’s natural hair is unique and very beautiful. Wearing it natural or having extensions either way they are so creative with the styles they wear. Whichever way they enjoy wearing it works! Going through long hours of braiding in extensions (I’ve heard some women say 13 plus hours for their braids) or any style blows my mind! I mean if they put that much work into it then they definitely deserve compliments! In the end I would just want her to feel comfortable.
Tomorrow evening or soon after I’ll continue with posts on thoughts and generalizations about her personality, character, family and friend acceptance, why some white males choose to approach or not.
I apologize if while reading through that if it offended you the way I wrote my descriptions and preferences. I am truly trying to give black women what goes through a male’s mind or maybe help answer something they were curious about.
LikeLike
I am a white male of Italian heritage…considered by some to be quite good looking, 6′ tall, very good shape, blue eyes…college grad with a very successful career…and I am most attracted to extra large, tall, black women with very dark skin and African features. Maybe I am different than most from what I have read in these comments. Dramatic curves, extra full lips and beautiful dark satin skin is breath-takingly sexy and gorgeous in my mind.
LikeLike
Marty and c1e1n1,
Thanks for your candid, positive comments about your preferences in BW.
BW need to hear more PRO-BW feedback from men of ALL races who feel we are attractive women.
LikeLike
laromana,
Thank YOU for the opportunity to express myself here. Real men see the true beauty in real women…and we have the self confidence to be open about it..and pursue the women of our dreams. Women of color are the most beautiful creatures in the universe. I am thankful I was born with the DNA to recognize this.
LikeLike
Oh my god it took me five days to read this whole blog. I have a lot to say but i’m going to hold it till tomorrow.
LikeLike
@laromana
You’re more than welcome. Thanks for taking time to respond, helps me out! My main reason for posting my thoughts is as I previously mentioned, to let African American women know what goes through an interested white male’s mind. Maybe not all, but at least one. This also helps me learn about myself and in the future may help me relate.
So I’m going to continue from what was on my mind last night. What goes through a white male’s mind while contemplating whether to approach a black female or not.
As for myself, before my mind gets to the part where I make a decision whether to approach or not my heart’s racing. I’m not using that as an excuse, but when making decisions on a racing heart the best aren’t always chosen!
As I was reading through what others had to say about white men approaching black women or vice versa I commonly came across comments like: White men are afraid of being rejected by a black women. Black women aren’t being flirtatious enough to let white men know they are open to dating them. We worry about how our family and friends will view us if a relationship were to begin. I know there’s others that I’m forgetting at the moment, but for time’s sake.
“White men are afraid of being rejected by a black woman…” This comment has some truth to it, but is taken too far and in the wrong direction. No matter how small, there is a fear of being rejected in every man no matter the color of his skin or the color of the woman he’s asking. If there’s no fear of losing this amazingly sweet, beautiful, important woman he’s decided to ask out then did he ever truly care to begin with?
As the comment tends to go the wrong way it’s been emphasized white men are more afraid of being rejected by a black woman than a woman of another race because she may be of a low social class. First off in my mind the social class of a person holds little to no value, just creates unneeded divisions. A white man’s worry of rejection from an African American woman more so than another race is created because that is the race of woman that individual prefers. If the reason differs then his intentions could be questionable (something I’ll be thinking through in a later post). For myself (and I’m sure there have been others who can relate) the area’s population in which I live is mostly caucasian, but growing more diverse on a positive note. Limited opportunities play a factor as well as plainly being awestruck. Since I deeply value and admire a black woman rejection can hurt, but it’s time to take initiative and play the role of a man as God made me.
“Black women aren’t being flirtatious enough to let white men know they are open to dating them…” I’ll start by saying when I see her smile or friendly body language she’s already made herself much more inviting and comfortable to approach. However, I strongly feel it isn’t solely a black woman’s responsibility to let me know she’s interested. What if she’s searching for some kind of sign from me? Maybe she’s shy or a bit uneasy herself. Maybe she doesn’t want to risk the embarrassment of an unanswered glance. I do have to say though I love it when she does something to let me know! I think if a risk of embarrassment or uncomfortability needs to be taken I need to take the chance (I wish I could say I have every time, but I’m not perfect). If I fall, then I got to get back up. I try to always at least compliment her to brighten the day!
“We worry about how our family and friends will view us if a relationship were to begin.” I can see this being one of the biggest concerns. It’s harsh being somewhere and to not be accepted or wanted. If the relationship begins, holds strong, and blooms into a marriage then her family is my family and mine is hers. We are one. I would hope all families joined together by marriage would want the best and attempt to get along. Although, there are times I know it doesn’t work like that and that’s what we all fear. Family can build up or tear down their members. I believe this worry or any other fear shouldn’t deter me from approaching her. All the adversity that may come with us is something to overcome.
For tonight I’ll end with saying How can gold be purified if it never stands the test of fire?
LikeLike
laromana,
For some reason, I was thinking that you are Hispanic. c1e1ne, I agree with some of your sentiments in your comment.
LikeLike
As a white male, I have never really felt insecure about being rejected by a black woman. So, that has never held me back. Probably because I am a very outgoing individual in a customer facing career position. That in itself gives me more self confidence than probably many other men.
A long time ago, when I first noticed the opposite sex, I realized I was much more attracted to black women than white. So, this came from somewhere in my DNA. But, I was reluctant to pursue a relationship mainly because of how others, such as family, might react. Those influences can be very challenging as we all want acceptance. However, now that I am older and hopefully wiser, I look back and realize how silly that really was and how important it is to live life to the fullest with the partner that makes you the happiest.
What is really interesting is my preference happens to be dark skinned, very thick/large black women. I am white, very athletic, in top physical shape and considered to be quite handsome. Most expect to see me with the skinny, blonde, barbie, homecoming queen type. When I approach a black woman, of the type I find attractive, often the reaction is disbelief that I find her to be beautiful and sexy. That in itself is like rejection. I realize that it is a self-confidence issue with the woman…but still a challenge for me.
I guess the world of relationships is never easy…
LikeLike
You white men that say your preference is for dark-skinned black women are nothing but narrow-minded colorists!
…Just kidding 😉
LikeLike
Hi Natasha! You are probably right! But at least we are upfront, open and honest about it!! :-))
LikeLike
islandgirl says,
laromana,
For some reason, I was thinking that you are Hispanic. c1e1ne, I agree with some of your sentiments in your comment.
laromana says,
I’m an Afrolatina (Afrohispanic) born/raised in the U.S. of Dominican parents.
LikeLike
Just commenting from Europe: it looks like all the talking is about who likes what kind of looks. Maybe I don’t get it but for me it is about the person first and looks are just bonus.
I’ve met some beautiful women who are the ugliest persons one can imagine and met some not so good lookin women who have been funny, nice and intelligent. For me, good looks is just that. A car might look good but I don’t want that in my bed.
Then about the race. I understand the history of US, the whole baggage of that, but who cares about color of your skin these days? I really don’t care if your blue, black, brown or green or ghost white. If you’re ok, you’re ok.
The reason why so many white guys like black women is in their way of presenting themselves. I have lived in US couple times, in NYC and in Mid West, and I noticed how much more proud the black women are about themselves. They are good looking because they are proud of their bodies and looks. And that, ladies, looks good.
White women seem to be worrying all the time about their weight or some other issue, and that drives a normal heterosexual man insane. Black women seem to know who they are and show it. This is who I am and take it or leave it, they seem to say in bodylanguage.
I tried to get into conversation with some black women back then but it didn’t work out for anything more than just talk for some reason. Maybe because I’m just butt ugly. Sometimes things work out, sometimes they don’t. One thing I also liked about black women was their sense of humor. They are not all the time thinking the “real” meaning of a joke. They just tell another instead of trying to figure out what it is all about, is there a hidden meaning behind it or this and that.
So, basically, what I am saying is that it is not so much about the black race but the way black women are. They are who they are. They are funny, intelligent and the good looks does not make them less attractive. Black, white, brown, yellow, red, pink, blue, green, what ever the color, be proud of your selves, ladies! That makes you attractive and sexy. I think so at least.
LikeLike
Oh, I forgot this one: Lola Wallinkoski (former Odusoga). Miss Finland 1996, second runner up in Miss Universe 1996, and Miss Scandinavia 1997.
She was voted by the public as Miss Finland by huge margin and her father is nigerian. She still is one of the most beautiful women in Finland and has been working for television, modeling etc. since her pageant days. Married with a white guy and consoders herself a finn trough and trough.
LikeLike
I am a white man. Funny,… as I say that, I have my own stereotypical thoughts of what that means…I was amused with the comment about how white men are ‘scared of black women’…and that is one of the funny things that I think about when I say “white man”. I find it interesting hearing all these perspectives and opinions…..and after reading them, they resonate in my head… “black…white black white black white…on and on. ..people have perspectives , gender perspectives that arise out of their experiences, dating experiences, childhood experiences, and relationships of their own and of friends and acquaintances …and sometimes those are a bit skewed, depending on how broad your experience is….and how lucky you have been in love. Then there are the perspectives about what men find attractive in women…and then we further complicate it with our ideas about ‘race’ and similarly black women , white men, black men , white women …we have our perspectives on these too…but in the end people are attracted to others for a variety of reasons , including past experiences, images, difference, similarity, familiarity..and on and on. I did not have many black people around me when I was growing up…and long afterward too for that matter! I discovered that I was very attracted to the beauty of black people when I was a child..and developed crushes on black women that I saw on T.V shows,… actors, singers and musicians….But its not unusual that I have been attracted to black women with earthy good looks…because that is the same thing I find attractive in white women…similarly I find ‘thick’ women most attractive…so I don’t think it is a fair assessment to say that white men are attracted to certain black women, to the ‘cutesy face” black women…I think all of the women that you have posted here are beautiful…..neither should any white woman feel irked by a white man’s attraction to black women…nor should black women feel irked by a black man’s attraction to white women…I don’t feel one way or the other about white women’s attraction to black men…or to black women for that matter…that is her choice, her thing, her life, her love. Years ago I met a black woman online and went to stay with her for 2 weeks in St Lucia. I know for sure that she was not ‘objectively pretty’ or beautiful in the classic sense, but I personally found her gorgeous. She was also a sociopath, lied about everything, even the most insignificant little thing, and in a multitude of other ways generally did a number on me, and nearly destroyed my trust in people. Then I met my present partner, also a black woman, and the love of my life…she often laments, when I tell her that she is beautiful , that she is not this or not that ( again ideas of what is pretty or classically beautiful)…she says that I think she is beautiful only because I am in love with her…but I am certain, that while it is true, I AM IN LOVE WITH HER !!….I think she is very very beautiful. You know that makes me think as I say that, some people are not great appreciators of beauty , some people really don’t know beauty..and that is a shame. As I said, its nothing against white women or other ‘races’…I think they are beautiful too…I just happen to think that black women among all women, are the most beautiful in the world. That is just my opinion, it is my perspective…and black men are also beautiful in many ways…and they shouldn’t be laden with the heavy shit that they often carry around….I don’t like to hear black women lamenting about black men…we are all individuals..all different with different tastes and preferences, thank god !!
LikeLike
I a 30 year old black male has noticed that white males are mainly attracted to thin,dark or brown skinned sistas. And they are always attracive well
to me anyways. In the military community interracial couples are quite common,and I have also seen this in society
Off topic why is it that when brothas decide to date outside their race,they always go for fat,trailer trash white women? At the same time while white dudes are seen with fine sistas
LikeLike
There is a black woman named Arlene Joan Allaway was married to a white man, who is of Egyptian origin, and his name is Abdelfattah Mahmoud Elshinnawy. Unfortunately, Arlene Elshinnawy is no longer living.
LikeLike
Its really amazing how when its a black man dating a white women he’s called a sell out and just about every name in the book. I’m sure you all know who’s the one bashing. I just finished reading some of the comments about the white goddes site http://whitemeat.wordpress.com/ at https://abagond.wordpress.com/2009/08/26/is-the-white-goddess-blog-a-satire/. He’s a black man and as usual he’s being bashed for loving white women. Now I’m reading this hyprocrite blog about black women that white men like. Now everything is all supportive and positive. How come no one is calling the women sellouts. Mentioning about internalized racism which what was said about him. A lot of you are the biggest hyprocites out here. Who’s really chasing after who? Black women trash the black men for dating white women and then turn around wanting to date white men. Making ebooks about date a white guy and could mr. right be white. I don’t get it. Then these white men write racist comments on youtube only on the videos showing black men with white women but then these white men date every race of women on the earth which the asian woman is his number one pick. The racist letter sent to the black NFL players with white wives and to Taye Diggs. Threats to the college football player Boise Sate star RB Ian Johnson that proposed to his white girlfriend on live tv. He had to hire security for his wedding due to the threats all because he’s a black man marrying a beautiful white woman. People should be able to date freely with out any problems but as you know when black men do it, it becomes controversal and the war of words begin. Two sites I’ve seen which one has black men with white wives with the children and another site which was shocking has loads of asian women with black men. I didn’t know that many asian women and indian went with black men. Can anyone guess who was hating on both of those sites writing negative commments saying I quote: It does not bother me at all when a black woman dates other than a black man….it weeds out the undesirable ones that black women don’t want, end quote. Oh yes I almost forgot about Jill Scotts commments on black men with white women. This is what I mean by hyprocites. Bash the black men for doing the same that black women all of a sudden want to do. http://s1.zetaboards.com/Express_Yourself/topic/3145095/1/#new. http://conversations.blackvoices.com/entertainment/99435682aaea4564b24369ed6fc90973/they-have-white-wive/30e4eab2fd0c49aebef8b63cf69e1c47?pg=1. The topic is called, They Have White Wives ! Who knew!!. like I said before, people should be able to date who they want without any problems but you and I know that as soon as you see a black man with a white women its a whole different story. I read from them about the troubles they go through. I had a very good chance of going with a very attractive white woman in her early 20’s but I knew I would be battling every day we would be in the public by the opposite genders of our race. I’ve seen a lot of black men with white women these last few days in NYC and they looked happy together. Some had children and were married.
LikeLike
R,
“Its really amazing how when its a black man dating a white women he’s called a sell out and just about every name in the book.”
If you think black women who date white men aren’t called sellouts, self-haters, etc, and that rhey don’t get flack from black men, you need to think again.
Anyway, I don’t see what your comment has to do with the topic. The post is not about black men and white women and it never disparaged that pairing. Your rant might be more fitting somewhere else.
LikeLike
@ R
I agree with Natasha. There are better threads for this subject, but there have already been others touching on the same points as you.
You said, “People should be able to date freely with out any problems but as you know when black men do it, it becomes controversal and the war of words begin.”
To put it plainly: This completely sucks. If anything, take heart in that the “pain you are aware of” is also felt/experienced by BW (as Natasha notes above). If one steps outside the box, I would even go further to say this “hate” can be felt by almost anybody in an inter-racial/inter-ethnic relationship. The package might change, the carrier making the delivery may be different, but what’s inside remains the same: Plain ole ignorance. If anything, there is more of a commonality through this shared experience than not. I can’t speak for other blogs, but this whole BM/BW vice/versa bashing seems absolutely counterproductive. I appreciate you venting your frustrations. Just remember, there are a lot of people who can relate to your frustrations that are in similar relationships. Be strong and don’t let the “haters” manipulate. Be above that mindset. Afterall, “People should be able to date freely without any problems.”
LikeLike
i must say… this blog is amazing. For the past few months i have been meaning to do research on wether white men take an interest in black women… Im a 20yr old black/puerto rican attractive female in college and i’ve never dated a WM before… and i find myself really wanting to. Im accustomed to BM approaching women somewhat aggressively and 9 out of 10 i am aware of who will attempt to approach me (being that im good looking) but i never know what a WM is thinking… i have large breasts and a not so large bottom.. so i guess i have some typical physical attraction characteristics for a WM… but im just so scared to approach them… i also think that due to past racial issues in America, some people (especially Blacks) think white people wont like them or maybe just feel a little afraid about being in a relationship with them. i pursed a white guy that i thought was cute at school and i would flirt and always talk to him, but i was such a coward about seeing him or dating him… i literally chickened out.. to the point that now he has a girlfriend how dumb of me for procrastinating smh… maybe one day i get over my fear and just go for it…
p.s i love this blog
LikeLike
jojo says,
For the past few months i have been meaning to do research on wether white men take an interest in black women… Im a 20yr old black/puerto rican attractive female in college and i’ve never dated a WM before… and i find myself really wanting to.
i pursed a white guy that i thought was cute at school and i would flirt and always talk to him, but i was such a coward about seeing him or dating him… i literally chickened out.. to the point that now he has a girlfriend how dumb of me for procrastinating smh… maybe one day i get over my fear and just go for it…
p.s i love this blog
laromana says,
jojo, Thanks for sharing your candid feelings about your desire to date WM. Like you, I’m an Afrolatina who prefers WM and what I’ve learned from first hand life experiences is that there are THREE TYPES of WM who you may encounter, as a BW, in your relationship life (please see below).
Of the three types of WM I’ve described, I’ve mostly encountered ANTI-BW RACISTS, ANTI-BW COWARDS or a combo of both. I haven’t given up on WM altogether but I’ve had to totally cut out certain demographics of WM who, over a long period of time, have consistently treated me like I’m not a NORMAL HUMAN WOMAN.
I hope that you find the PRO-BW WM who will appreciate and pursue/initiate a relationship with you.
I don’t think you’re a coward because the cute WM you liked ended up with someone else. You shouldn’t have to do any MORE, outside of showing interest (which you did), to date a WM, than a NON-BW does. If a WM likes you and you’ve made it clear you’re interested, he NEEDS to make the next move.
3 TYPES OF WM
ANTI-BW RACIST – this type of WM is open to ALL NON-BW but discriminates against BW SOLELY because they are Black. He considers BW second class women and treats them as if they are NOT NORMAL HUMAN WOMEN. This type of WM NEVER interacts with BW and behaves as if they were invisible aliens/not REAL WOMEN.
ANTI-BW COWARD – this type of WM may genuinely be attracted to/like BW but he allows FEAR of POSSIBLE loss of status for being with a BW STOP him from pursuing/being in a relationship with her (or even letting her know that he thinks she’s attractive).
Although this type of WM isn’t an ACTUAL ANTI-BW RACIST his ACTIONS affect BW in a similar way to those of an ANTI-BW RACIST (he ends up being a FUNCTIONAL ANTI-BW RACIST).
PRO-BW WM – this type of WM likes/is attracted to BW and treats them like NORMAL HUMAN WOMEN. He isn’t afraid to show attraction to a BW or to pursue/be in a relationship with a BW. This is the type of WM who will SERIOUSLY DATE and/or MARRY a BW without ANY concern about what ANYONE thinks.
LikeLike
As a WM who has dated many women of color and married a BW, I have to agree with blanc2. When people look at each other and get to know one another as individuals, race becomes a non-issue for reasonable people. Sure there may be cultural differences that can create hurdles in relating to others, but that is true of all cultures. And to be honest, I have found myself attracted to women of color since I was a very young boy, so some degree of genetic influence in our preferences is probable, but not a driving factor. I encourage laromana and other women of color to give us white guys a chance. I think you will find that you are very appreciated for who you are.
LikeLike
I am an African-american women and I am 20 years old and will be 21 in two months I have a very serious relationship with an WM from Europe and I am his 2nd black girlfriend his first was from Africa. We look very similar, dark skin, full lips, slim, and full chest for our size. I used to wear weave and he hated it and convinced me to go natural and to take care of my own hair because its beautiful also we decided to remove my fake nails. I agree that most white men don’t like the sterotypical black women and education is a must to be tooken seriously but I don’t agree to call it “whiteness” I always considered myself to be different from everyone I grew up with and from my family and friends but I don’t considered it “whiteness” I considered it being a dignified indiviual no matter what race you are just a respectable person. He is my second euporean boyfriend and third european I have had sex with and I also dated an american WM for a very brief time at my college they are very attracted to black women that have my features and not be vain but I am a very beautiful female I have been complimented for my looks by white and black women and men all my life. But to be more than sex to them just like any men wants in a women they want to be able to carry a decent conversation with you, you must show a high level of respect for yourself, be intelligent, very attractive, and being good at sex is always a plus on any guys list.
LikeLike
I would like to thank those who have contributed so far, it has been an awesome read, perhaps more than i can manage in one sitting. My biggest concern is finding a nice BW in my area. I live in Canada living in the Vancouver area. My observation is that there are very few SBW, available.
I am a tall good looking man in my mid 40’s with grey hair and blue green eyes. To put it into perspective, When I go to my dating site, in my area there may be 75-100 women in the area that have posted, 50 percent I would consider as they are too heavy, the others are inactive profiles, or they are too young. Very few fall into the category of being, attractive, slim-ish and educated. The inventory is just not there, unless there is another way to meet these gems. In my area there just seems to be a limited way to meet.
I have had a relationship with one BW from Texas, but that seemed a bit over the top, the travel and the nature of the relationship. I have been preferring black females ever since. I have had relationships with WF since but you know the old saying….once you have had…….
Observation, never mention you have dated BF to a WF
In conclusion I have a few questions:
1) Were does a WM find a BW on the west coast of Canada?
2) Predominantly, what look are educated middle aged BW looking for?
LikeLike
1) Were does a WM find a BW on the west coast of Canada?
You’re SOL buddy! Move to Toronto or Montreal!
Speaking for myself, I prefer wealthier aged men with heart conditions. They must have their wits intact so as to not cause drawn out legal battles over their will. Barring that a man that is still breathing with a job!
LikeLike
“2) Predominantly, what look are educated middle aged BW looking for?”
That’s probably not really a question that can be successfully answered. For one thing, I don’t imagine that there is any one “look” that educated Black women go for. Good looks always helps, but in the end, it’s probably more about who you are, than how you look.
LikeLike
King, I get that part. I definitely know who i am and who i see myself with. i am just wondering about the relocation end of things. Herneith says move east. i believe them. it will be mighty lonely for a while, at this rate. i love bc and dont want to move until retirement. so i am laughing at myself and going buddy have faith in the beautiful westcoast….
LikeLike
HappyMan says,
I encourage laromana and other women of color to give us white guys a chance. I think you will find that you are very appreciated for who you are.
laromana says,
HappyMan, I have had a prefernece for WM all my life so it’s not a matter of “giving WM a chance”.
Unfortunately, I’ve run into too many American WM who are ANTI-BW COWARDS and refuse to treat BW like NORMAL, HUMAN women when it comes to relationships.
I think most WM in America could use your advice. Give BW a chance. We are NORMAL, HUMAN, INDIVIDUAL women.
LikeLike
I’m a Black Latina. I have mahogany skin, curly kinky hair, almond eyes, full lips, small nose, I’m short and I have an hourglass shape. I’m have a very huge chest a tiny waist and a big butt. I get attention from men of all races. I get the least attention from Black men and the most attention from foreign/FOBish guys and White men. I think the stereotype of White men liking thin women is completely wrong. Men in general like meat on a woman. They want something soft to grab onto.
LikeLike
Yeah, black women are Women, guys. It is funny how some of these guys go on and on about black women like some kind of strange rare Things. I wonder if it isn’t somekind of fetish? You know, “black” woman, like in porn they have The Nurse, The Teatcher, The Nunn, The Mother of my friend, The Female cop, The Virgin and of course: The Black Woman!
You wanna meet black women? You want to date them? Well, go out and meet them. Talk to them. Say hello and how are you? Black women are not from outer space. They are Women, you know, just like anybody.
I mean, seriously, why would somebody move from west coast Canada to east because he wants to meet black women? That is like few thousand miles. Leave your job behind, your friends behind, your home behind just because you MIGHT meet more black women over there. Now that sounds little bit desperate for me.
Laromana is right here. Treat women as women and you might get lucky. But if you go on and on and on how you like blackblackblackblack I bet some of these black ladies might think that your engine is not working on all cylinders. And for a good reason.
You don’t go to white women and start blabber about how sexy they are because they are so white, do you? I don’t. If a woman is sexy or good lookin or nice, she is. I don’t give a hoot about her color.
“What look black women are looking for?”. Why would anybody want to know that? Are you going to dress up for that part so that you could get some action? I could understand that question from a teenager. But as a white grown up man I can not understand why any other grown up man would ask that.
Just be yourself. They like or not. That is the way things are. If you pretend, you’ll get busted someday and lo behold the wrath of a woman!!
Well, I guess we live in a very strange world.
LikeLike
sam says,
Yeah, black women are Women, guys. It is funny how some of these guys go on and on about black women like some kind of strange rare Things. I wonder if it isn’t somekind of fetish? You know, “black” woman, like in porn they have The Nurse, The Teatcher, The Nunn, The Mother of my friend, The Female cop, The Virgin and of course: The Black Woman!
You wanna meet black women? You want to date them? Well, go out and meet them. Talk to them. Say hello and how are you? Black women are not from outer space. They are Women, you know, just like anybody.
I mean, seriously, why would somebody move from west coast Canada to east because he wants to meet black women? That is like few thousand miles. Leave your job behind, your friends behind, your home behind just because you MIGHT meet more black women over there. Now that sounds little bit desperate for me.
Laromana is right here. Treat women as women and you might get lucky. But if you go on and on and on how you like blackblackblackblack I bet some of these black ladies might think that your engine is not working on all cylinders. And for a good reason.
You don’t go to white women and start blabber about how sexy they are because they are so white, do you? I don’t. If a woman is sexy or good lookin or nice, she is. I don’t give a hoot about her color.
laromana says,
sam, thanks for your COMMON SENSE approach to BW. If more men of ALL races thought this way, we wouldn’t even have to have discussions about “what kind of BW WM like”.
LikeLike
I personally think this whole article is filled with bs, especially considering not all the women at the top date white men and not all the women at the bottom don’t. Verdict? The correlation you claim does not exist. Now of my group of white male friends many of them said they would only date a black chick who looks like Rihanna or Halle ie having white features with a bit of a caramel coloring. Because of this does it mean ALL white men only go for mixed/light chicks? No of course not I can’t take that bunch of guys and tar all white guys with the same brush.
Now look here ladies. Either white guys will hit on you or they wont. No need to boast about it being something to do with how dark/light/cultured/skinny you are or are not or whatever. I’m a mixed girl (1/4 barbadian 3/4 German) with gray eyes, blond hair and have dated many guys and my friend is a dark-skinned African girl with all black features and has dated the same amount of white guys. If you’re hot you’re hot and men of all races are going to be attracted to you!
LikeLike
Jasmine, I enjoy your postings. Well written and coordinated. I’m also dark skined, of African decent, 5’8”, 1201bs, high cheek bone and all. Believe it or not, pure white male magnet. I’ve been married for 20 years to my husband who is white American. And yes, this I know for sure, more white men are far more interested in facial features and thin body structure than colour. While more of our black men would rather a lighter skin and heavier set features. The facial structure is usually the least of a priority for the black male when it comes to dating preference as per my observation.
LikeLike
@R
I kind of agree with you! But it is not black women who are the only hyprocrites. People in general tend to be hyprocrytical! I remember once, a young black man whose name I won’t mention, said on this website that he didn’t have a problem with bm/ww relationships but when he sees a black model with a white man, he gets upset. He asked was he a hypocrite. I told him yes but that he was just being human. I think alot of people are that way. They don’t mind seeing an interracial couple that involves someone that looks like them but opposes one that involves someone of the same race but of the opposite sex. Martin Lawrence made a joke in the movie “National Security”. In the beginning of the movie, he tells his white sidekick that he opposes interracial marriage after he finds out his sidekick is married to a black woman. Then later on in the movie, he flirts with an attractive white woman. The white sidekick ask ” I thought you hated interracial relationships?”. Martin says ” I do but only when it involves a white man” Now that’s real. Hyprocrisy is a part of human nature. It happens all the time when it involves interracial relationships.
LikeLike
Sorry but personally I HATE when people (specifically black people) say I, or another black girl “talks white”. I think that is sooo damn annoying, I didn’t know you could speak a color. Weird.
LikeLike
Not read all the replies, but I have to agree that as a generalisation black girls that date white men, have ‘white acting / reserved’ personalities, slender bodies, and cute faces.
My mum is black and dads white, and mum fits the description you gave, except mum is light skinned. Everyone thinks I’m white with a tan, rather than mixed race.
Mum and dad met in the 1970s.
LikeLike
Look around you ..people are going to be w/who they love. The stronger the love….the stronger the relationship.I am a BW married to a WM for 23 years. BM would not date me because I was too “assertive” & didn’t “know my place” translation…I knew what I wanted & wasn’t afraid to go for it. My husband &I have brought up racw when comparing behaviors, & in descriptive terms in individuals…but we see each other as a person, a friend,lover, caregiver & it saddens me to hear that someone stays in a relationship because they’re afraid to step outside the box. Family is nice, but @ the end of the day younneed someone for youself…&newsflash where&whondomthey go home to? Not you I bet. People need to open their eyes understand when you peelm off the skin the only thing that differentiates from each other are testes & a uterus.No one notices the lips, hair or skin color then. If you need blood do you ask what color was the donor..I think not.
LikeLike
@Carol
Amen! You’ve got some great words there. Reading your thoughts is really a help right now. The struggle with family whether it’s about race, relocating or whatever… it’s taxing. Just brightens up the day a little more. I’m glad to hear you and your husband enjoy each other so much, best of wishes.
LikeLike
What I would like is a women like SADE smooth and strong soul she is. So diffrent from being a ego maniac american WG
LikeLike
People need to open their eyes understand when you peelm off the skin the only thing that differentiates from each other are testes & a uterus.No one notices the lips, hair or skin color then.
So let me get this straight, Carol? essentially what you are saying is that women are all pink on the inside…?
LikeLike
Thad, what’s your issue…? Humans have the tendency to hide pain either through inappropriate comments, humor or violence. Has someone hurt you, black or white? Or maybe pink? People are people & we are all one whether you choose to accept it or not. May be one day the world will GET that..but I doubt it’ll be in my lifetime @ least by the comments posted.
LikeLike
What is that you wrote…..that Heather Headley is a woman white men would prefer note to date? WRONG! She and all the women on both the prefered list and non-prefered list are ladies we white men would love to date, and share our lives with, I would vigorously leapfrog over Jessica Alba and Angela Joli for those ladies listed.
All this discussion of race, skin tone, facial features, etc are interesting and thought provoking, however, each individual has their own idea of how the “ideal woman” looks, talks, acts, and her potential to be a true loving partner. I worked many years in Kenya, and South Africa, where inter-marriage has been around a long long time, and one will see beautiful bi-racial Africans as white as snow, to black as coal, and every shade in between. Skin tone…. I was at a club one evening just relaxing and admiring the ladies when the darkest toned ebony princess entered, she was slim by most standards, had good social skills that appealed to me, a smile that lit up the heart, and not a hint of attitude. Long story short, that was 11 years ago, and we are still together and as happy as the day we met.
Here in the USA I constantly meet African American women during the course of life, some are strikingly beautiful and have good heads on their shoulders, others are strikingly beautiful yet have an attitude straight out of a Hollywood movie, talking and acting with every stereotypical “gangsta” nuance the script writer ever thought of. She may look like Naomi Campbell but if she talks trash, this white man won’t waste his time.
Bottom Line: For those of you who erroniously belief white men like black women for FREAKY SEX, the answer in absolutely not, freaks love freaks, men of any color or race love women, we will not waste time on any trash white, black, Asian, etc.
Do white men like black women? YES, YES, and OOOH YES!
LikeLike
I’m a professional, 33 year old, dark brown, full figured/voluptuous BBW black female who works in a male dominated engineering company. I’m considered attractive with a great smile and nice figure, and I attract all sorts of people because of my fun, outgoing & bubbly personality. I love talking and laughing out loud and having fun. I’m originally from the South where my high school was 30% black. Now I’m in Connecticut where my town is less than 1% Black, and I can hardly get a date.
In 8 years, I have had very few men approach me and ask me out. Even if I pursue, the responses are usually glim. I’m a pretty active person as I enjoy museums, jazz, happy hours, etc. I work in a company where it’s not unusual that I am on the only black/female in the room.
I’m not very experienced with men. In fact, I’ve had two serious relationships since I began dating when I was 19 – one white man and one black man. The white man was Albanian and treated me well. The black man was cool too but that ended by my second year in college. He was very controlling.
I can’t get any dates in CT. I know being full figured puts me at a disadvantage, but I should still have some prospects. Most of my inquiries come from older white men online or black guys. For some reason, I get along better with white men. I’m not generalizing but speaking from my own experience. I find with the Black guys that I interact with don’t want me to go out too much or appear to be put off with my intellect or my sense of humor. I often listen to the National Public Radio, watch Star Trek, like techno music, and love coffee shops. I feel that they find me “unrelatable”. A co-worker told me that I don’t act “Black” – that I’m just more roots. I was offended because there is no such thing as acting Black, it’s just me, and I happen to be Black.
Again, I know I’m at a disadvantage because I’m thick (mostly in the right places). The Northeast, in my opinion, is not a good place for dating unless you’re size 4 and white/latin. The black girls I see with white guys fit that profile also.
After reading this blog along with comments, I wanted to say, what’s so friggin special about white men! But to me, it’s not that they’re so hot or special, I just tend to get along with them better. My ideal guy is medium height (5′ 8″ – 6′), white, masculine, thick build, and blue/green eyes. However, I’m open to dating any race as long as I feel good when I’m with him.
Perhaps I will visit Europe, Jamaica, etc. to experience something other than plain old American racism and get a different view of what other cultures think of Blacks. Although it does not show, I’ve never felt so insecure as a Black woman as I do here in the Northeast.
LikeLike
Thad, what’s your issue…? Humans have the tendency to hide pain either through inappropriate comments, humor or violence. Has someone hurt you, black or white? Or maybe pink? People are people & we are all one whether you choose to accept it or not. May be one day the world will GET that..but I doubt it’ll be in my lifetime @ least by the comments posted.
Uhn?
Carol, I know that Americans who are politically active are famously humourless, but even for me, your response was a surprise.
You seem to claim that gender trumps race (Iagree, btw). My comment is thus that women are all the same color on the inside. At most, this is a wry, slightly off-color take on your proposition. You, however, seem to think that it’s an example of horridly inappropriate humor.
Why, might I ask?
LikeLike
Having spent nearly 30 years in Asia and Africa, I have seen many bi-racial relationships develop into lifetime commitments that have endured every test thrown at them, some started as true love, others as a short time affair that went on to a life time relationship.
Back in the 1960’s-70’s when African American & White American couples were seen on the streets the derogatory term or ‘street slang’ for those who thought it ‘cool’ to use such phrases was: “Jungle Fever.” In Asia, foreign men who fell in love with Asian women were diagnosed via street slang as having “Yellow Fever,” (an Asian term, not American.) Many Asian women will not date a foreigner if he “has a fetish for Asians,” as he is objectifying her, rather than seeing her as a woman he sees her as an “Asian Woman.” Human nature being what it is, fetishes are real, and men and women of every nationality, race, skin tone will “have a predilection” for certain types, some like tall, others short, thin, thick, blondes, brunettes, redheads, etc.
It may be fun for a young black & white couples (or any couple of different backgrounds, ) to discuss the differences and similarities of the other’s cultural background, yet for mature men & women who may be dating or in a serious relationship such differences are a non-issue and they enjoy each other as human beings, as man & woman.
LikeLike
Seeing her as a woman is NOT objectifying her…?
LikeLike
DoubleOd, maybe you should ask a guy out. Maybe they do not know how to approach you. I don’t know. I can’t understand that. Is there something in the water in Connecticut or something??
I have met only handful of hard core racist white guys who insist that they would never go out with a black woman and I think even they are not too convincing. Actually one of the worst fell in love with african woman. They’ve been together for 2 decades, have kids etc. Guy does not want to be reminded about his past but the woman snipes him with comments like: White power! etc. every now and then. I think he is more than embarrassed about who he was in his twenties. Gives us the chance to laugh! At him that is…
The thing with the black women is this: every single heterosexual male likes a Woman. Yes, that is a Woman with a capital W. And for some reason, many black women are just that. It is not so much about the color of the skin as it is about the whole appearence and attitude. Just being a true Woman.
Too many white women are too insecure, have all kinds of issues with themselves, with their looks, are they too tall or short, big or small, fat or skinny, lanky or chubby, stupid, pushy, lame, too funny or not funny at all, etcetcetc. They spent all their time thinking about what others think about them and how others might see them. After a very very long evening of listening a woman talk about those subjects over and over and over again, there is no magic in the air. Sorry, but thats the way it is.
Like I’ve said before, I think Queen Latifah, Serena Williams, Beyonce, Naomi Campbell and many others are very beautiful black women. But I also think that Sophia Loren, Marilyn Monroe, Raquel Welch and Salma Hayek are good looking too. Maybe I’m just an Old School straight guy, but this is my take on this once again. In my mind it is about being a woman and showing it. Not being ashame of it.
Ofcourse I understand that we are talking about stereotypes here and all are individuals, but since we are talking about assumed differences between different ethnic groups and why so many white men like black women, here is my take on it. I also understand that there are differences between Europe and US, between generations and such. My point of view is that of myself. That is all.
LikeLike
The thing with the black women is this: every single heterosexual male likes a Woman. Yes, that is a Woman with a capital W. And for some reason, many black women are just that. It is not so much about the color of the skin as it is about the whole appearence and attitude. Just being a true Woman.
See what I mean about objectifying? Straight guys apparently like icons, not people.
This post, however, explains why so many otherwise “straight” men pay transvestites for sex. Hell, if you’re going for the icon and not the person, why let a little thing like genitalia get in the way of your fetish?
LikeLike
I just want to say I am a 23yo white male from England, my long term girlfriend (2years) is from Granada, when I met her I was attracted to everything from the way she spoke (Caribbean accent) to the way she moved and held herself, if I was relating to your post I would have to say that body wise she is a typical Caribbean girl, round big bum (still in proportion) curvy hips and not too big breasts. I would have to say that nowadays I am most attracted to very dark skinned Caribbean and mixed race girls but as a general rule not so much African as they tend to have slightly different features, I also like white girls, Asian girls, all women are beautiful and I would not be ashamed to bring any of them home based on their culture or accent. Oh and my Gf has only been here 3 years so she is not englishized.
I am only telling this to point out that truly open minded people are attracted to many different looks and cultures but like anything peoples tastes shift slightly from time to time
LikeLike
@Thad
See what I mean about objectifying? Straight guys apparently like icons, not people.
I am afraid it’s true. I am not saying it’s men’s fault per se; it’s not hard-wired in their brains or something. It’s (sigh) cultural.
Now, I understand that “objectifying” thing is getting a bit old, especially since it’s not an easy thing to define. Like you said yourself, people do it all the time; every human contact has at least a bit of objectifying. But the way it’s glorified for men (to objectify woman), and even made to appear as the main way of interacting with women, is just wrong. Not simply wrong in ethical sense of the word- wrong as “dysfunctional”.
This post, however, explains why so many otherwise “straight” men pay transvestites for sex. Hell, if you’re going for the icon and not the person, why let a little thing like genitalia get in the way of your fetish?
Wha… Ok, well, I don’t get it. Or maybe I do. I always assumed straight men prefer their partners to have vaginas (isn’t that the whole point?)- but in a way, yes, this transvestite thing make sense: men who seek for an “icon” probably seek different thing and a bit of “technical” problem is not that important for them.
But still, my idea of a straight man doesn’t work with this scenario. On the other hand, I do believe that humans are basically bisexual beings (some more, some less) and that being “straight” is at least partly cultural. (Or gay for that matter).
LikeLike
I always assumed straight men prefer their partners to have vaginas (isn’t that the whole point?)
Silly Mira! It’s about performance, yes, but also about consumption.
If you’re taught to fetishize a certain kind of female body… well, the easiest way to GET that kind of body is with a transvestite. If all the OTHER parts arer excactly as you like them, why sweat one little one? 😀
LikeLike
True, but I have a problem with this:
If you’re taught to fetishize a certain kind of female body…
WHY would you be taught to fetishize a female body that most of the women don’t have, but transvestites do?
LikeLike
I’m tired, oh so tired.
Increasingly this world is becoming filled with words and books that shelves can not contain, nor our changing social views to support them, that inevitabley what we reject today will be embraced tomorrow?
And despite the worth of many of the discussions here, it has been my experience, through the many nationalities i have dated over the 39 years of my life, that once a woman is some what removed from their cultural & environment, even if its just for a day, that they are simply women and vica versa, wanting basically the same things as each other.
This is by no means derogative or be-littling, anyone that has been with a partner beyond a few years can perhaps give an amen to that, we are not that hard to work out really?
But what i think at the end of it all is, that women don’t feel like men are being men and fulfilling their rolls, just as much as men do not think women are doing like wise.
Because in todays society we don’t know what those roles are to be anymore? Regardless of sex or gender, what we have is confusion and in return we look for comfort through it all!
This is very simplistic i know and i have left out all the variables of human experience, issues of environment and reactions and responses to being brought up under certain conditions and the effects of religion, culture and popular culture. But in the end they are just excuses? We know better, we just don’t do better!
But we are emotive beings, our relationships whilst being emotional connections need to have those emotions under- control, we can’t be lead by our emotions and especially not our fetishes, fetishes are selfish and not love, love uses emotion, but is not used by emotion – theres the difference!
I am tired, so tired, i just want to live a quiet and peaceful life. I cook, i clean, i work, i drive the kids to sporting engagements and constantly cancel the things i like to do because others come first. Yes, my wife is not of my nationality, though race is a figment of our recent historical scientific imaginations…….. it is but culture that makes us different. 30 years ago all i would of had to do was work, cut the grass and read the newspaper, now i gotta do everything. I don’t know if this is right, good, bad or wrong, it just is and i get on with it, but when you are watcing every penny and nuturing your children and raising a family the fact that my wife and i are two different colours never comes up, we work as one, we do what we gotta do….. i think the fact that most of the people here seem to be American reflect the history of America and the environment you all contend in, you can’t resolve your histories, you can only except them, forgive them and move on, unconditionally, outside of that there is nothing else we can do!
Viva LOVE!
And in the words of INXS;
“Dream on white boy
Dream on black girl
And wake up to a brand new day”
LikeLike
Sam – good point. I don’t know what it is. I’m quite old fashioned though. I do not normally ask men out, but don’t get me wrong, I have before. However, nothing came of those dates that I initiated. I talk to people (men and women) all the time about how they met their mates, and there is a resounding theme throughout most of them. They met them at work or through a friend or at a relative’s wedding. This means, just in terms of odds, I’ll run into a good guy when I least expect it.
I will stay tied into a few dating sites that I like, but I’m also going to do what I want and enjoy life. There are too many beautiful places to visit, too much career growth to experience, and too much fun to be had to be overly concerned about finding love.
I know what I want – a mature, responsible, and open minded man who loves me just as I am, and I will do the same for him. At the end of the day, his color is irrelevant, only how I feel when I’m with him.
And I agree, there’s a huge sea out there. There are some beautiful Black men out there…I especially prefer the dark skinned, tall type with nice big hands, and deep brown eyes. I love white men with blonde hair and blue/green eyes. I also like Hispanic men with thick, black hair and deep brown skin tone. I also like some Japanese/Korean guys. If I could compromise my standards and be promiscuous (and be assured my reputation would be intact and I would contract no diseases), I’d date every reasonably attractive man I meet at work, at the grocery store, at the restaurant, etc. I love men.
Until I meet someone with which there is mutual chemistry, I’m going to have a good time by myself. And on that note, I’m going to grab a martini.
D
LikeLike
WHY would you be taught to fetishize a female body that most of the women don’t have, but transvestites do?
Hell if I know why. All I know is that society makes a killing off of this sort of iconic female image and rubs it in our faces everywhere. It’s no wonder, then that certain men and women fetishize it. It’s omnipresent.
LikeLike
And yet they do prize whiteness in women, even in black women, but the whiteness they want is not as simple as skin colour. It is more in how she talks and acts.
Right. White men will read a black woman who talks, acts, and reacts the way a white woman does as white. It also means they can predict and understand each other’s behaviour more easily.
Halle Berry is an excellent example; she was raised by her white mother only, and it shows. At the visceral layer where prejudice arises I don’t perceive her as “black”. My immediate social-emotional reaction to her in the media is “(merely happens to be black)”, “(dark-skinned) white woman”, “one of us”.
LikeLike
Also, I definitely agree about the cutsie-pie face, it’s adorable. But I’d also marry (a younger) Sade. But then, she’s English.
LikeLike
Interesting. Given that Halle Berry’s mother is white and that black Americans are somewhat mixed, Halle is at least half white if not more. And she is seen as a black woman, RIDICULOUS.
No disrespect towards black women, they generally do not attract me.(I’m white) When they do attract me it is because they look closer to whites because they are mixed as is the case of Halle Berry, Beyonce and others pictured here and elsewhere. Ildi Silva, featured in some other thread as a beautiful black Brazilian woman is 70% genetically european. And yes, I think she is hot, 😉
A black American woman I find very attractive and pretty is Jada Pinkett Smith, who is however, very mixed as well.
Generally however, more pure black women do not attract me at all as I dislike african features, very dark coloration and kinky hair. I do not see this as racism at all, it’s only natural that whites should generally feel more attracted towards whites, Asians to Asians, etc.
LikeLike
Well, this post is very interesting. In Canada, I know a heavy set, dark skinned woman who is chased by everyone and married to a white man. She is beautiful, but I don’t even know what she would project or she would feel about herself is she was raised in the good ole racist U.S. of A.
I am married to a white Canadian. I have found, since I became more confident (after marriage) that I have attracted a whole lot of men of various backgrounds.I attracted them before marriage as well. Once I got over my fear of dating, sex and men, it seemed my life snowballed immediately into marriage.
However, I do take offense at this post. Who the hell cares what men like and what they don’t? How does that line of thought help anyone? I think the biggest barrier to dating an American white man would not be whether he was attracted to me but whether we could talk about race. It is easy to have anyone attracted to you if you feel like it. But can you be with this person? Are they intelligent? A lot of Americans just can’t talk reasonably about race. Physical attraction is the least of the worries. It’s the emotional/personal that is the barrier in my mind.
When I am down and blah, well, that’s what I attract. When I am happy and up, I attract something else. But really, the post should be about can black women actually have a reasonable, insightful and far ranging discussion with a white man about race. I think there are many kind, funny, wonderful men out there, who may still be afraid to investigate their own racism, sexism, or personal politics in general. Of all races. That is the most important thing. Can you talk about stuff? Does the man white or black know himself and you beyond what the hell you look like? Do you know yourself?
LikeLike
In South Africa I have observed that many white men who date or marry black woman have reached their sale by date. I am not a racist but why does a tall lean young beautiful sexy black woman marry an overweight old white male??
LikeLike
Motherlove says, “When I am down and blah, well, that’s what I attract. When I am happy and up, I attract something else. But really, the post should be about can black women actually have a reasonable, insightful and far ranging discussion with a white man about race. I think there are many kind, funny, wonderful men out there, who may still be afraid to investigate their own racism, sexism, or personal politics in general”. I agree, its all about how you perceive yourself. I am pursued my mostly Italian men and its because i have always loved Italians
LikeLike
so you are saying that light skinned bw like me, don’t have a chance with most white men because they only date black women with darker skin?? where did all of this information come from?? you are a black man last time I checked?
LikeLike
Reply to Luca Kreutz – 21 Aug 2010 at 17:02:18
**********************
Kinky hair – interesting choice of words. Do you even know what kinky means?
As for (the beautiful – my words) African features…do you mean the same features other women try to copy with lots and lots and lots of bad and obvious plastic surgery? Or the tanning of the skin to look crispy?
My solution to your problem is to continue to date what you know.
As a black chick, I have never wanted to be anything else but me. If you cannot accept me, move on.
LikeLike
From another sam(wm) to Sam(bw): absolutely right! Well said!
I wonder who are these numbskulls who want to date a black women and then whine on these websites how black women are this and that. Or that this and that actress is not black because she has only a black mother/father and she is mixed? I think some of these guys have things mixed somwhere. I think what they have is a fetish about black women and that is a racial fetish.
They tend to forget that a black woman is a WOMAN. She is herself. You want to get to know black women? Well, meet them like humanbeings, like women. Not like BLACK women. Black women know they are black. And for all I know, they don’t feel that a white guy should tell them; blackblackblackblackblackblack…
I’ve seen four so beautiful women in my life that they made my heart ache, eyes melt and knees stiff. One was a white american woman, who happened to be a lesbian, ouch! One was a latin woman and she was just stunning! One was black african woman and her smile really did make the world a better place. Fourth, and the most beautiful woman I have seen in almost fifty years on living, was a black american woman.
Did she look like Halle Berry? No. Beyonce? Noup. What did she look like? She looked like herself. Very dark, not slim at all, but beautiful beautiful woman. All I have to do but close my eyes, and I can still see her. Just simply stunning. And add to that a very very fine personality – kaboom! Perfect woman if there ever was one.
No, we never became a couple. We never dated. But we met and talked and walked around parks and such. I did not mind to be seen with her but perhaps somebody else did. She just wanted be a friend, so we were. But very beautiful woman, very sharp, very intelligent, very funny and she was proud woman too. Not angry and hostile, but she had very good self esteem. I would’ve married her in a flat second. Best woman I ever met. But like I said, it was a no go. Still remember her some twenty years later. 🙂
LikeLike
Seeing a black women with a white man just annoys on some deep level. Sometimes white men used to come into our club with a black woman. Me and my mates would wait for him out side, walk up to him and get him to bend down and tie all our shoelaces, just really DE-MAN in front of his woman, then when he got to the end of the line, the last guy just usually punches him to the back head as hard he can, bear in mind we are all 6 foot and 15 stone and work out, sometimes it knocks him out, most times he just lays there in a daze, with his black woman screaming “You BASTARDS !! You BASTARDS !!”
Served you right for thinking the white man is so great.
http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo188/trilby200/19639_295166153908_832623908_329065.jpg
LikeLike
africanblackmilitant you would make a fantastic Klu Klux Klansman, if you just changed a few of your words around.
“Seeing a WHITE woman with a BLACK man just annoys on some deep level. Sometimes BLACK men used to come into our club with a WHITE woman! Me and my mates would wait for him out side, walk up to him and get him to bend down and tie all our shoelaces, just really DE-MAN in front of his woman, then when he got to the end of the line, the last guy just usually punches him to the back head as hard he can, bear in mind we are all 6 foot and 15 stone and work out, sometimes it knocks him out, most times he just lays there in a daze, with his WHITE woman screaming “You BASTARDS !! You BASTARDS !!”
What other neat stories/fantasies of unprovoked violence do you have to share about harassing interracial couples that you come across?
LikeLike
For your information sade is mixed race and she’s married to a jamaican man but she was married to a white man before. She is also stunning and i dont know about in the states but over in the u.k she was an 80’s pin up!
As for the rest of the article I do agree to a certain extent white men will date and marry bw who meet their criteria in terms of class and culture and of course weight that IS a deal breaker lol!
LikeLike
@King:
Hopefully he’s making this up!
LikeLike
@ Hernieth
Well, how many times could this really have happened (in real life) before a description of the assailants got out on the police blotter? And all of the time while her boyfriend or husband was being forced to tie the shoe laces of black, beret wearing, militants, the woman never called for help, or got the bouncer? None of these guys ever had friends who jumped in? No one ever had a weapon?
In my experience, there are two kinds of people – there are those who commit Class A Felonies, and those who talk about them on internet.
LikeLike
@Hernieth and King,
King said:
Hopefully he’s making this up!
hernieth
Well, how many times could this really have happened (in real life) before a description of the assailants got out on the police blotter? And all of the time while her boyfriend or husband was being forced to tie the shoe laces of black, beret wearing, militants, the woman never called for help, or got the bouncer? None of these guys ever had friends who jumped in? No one ever had a weapon?
In my experience, there are two kinds of people – there are those who commit Class A Felonies, and those who talk about them on internet.
My response:
cosign!
Umm, there is some truth to the weight thing, but not as much as you might think. Having a good, strong sense of yourself as a woman can trump that to some extent, even with white men. I’m not just a thick black woman, I’m really more like a chunk. And yet, I’ve never had a problem getting men of all races to admire me, including my white husband.
LikeLike
I realize this guy is full of feces. If a group of black men jumped some white man, it would be all over the news for one thing. Clowns like Jeff Beck or Rush Limbaugh, would be all over this as it would provide proof that blacks are racist too! This guy should stick to fantasizing about punching people out. He has to realize that there is someone bigger or tougher who will not take a beating lying down. He may be the one who ends up kissing the pavement. Fantasize on guy! Remember that when you are out with your white girl, hahaha!! You are hilarious I’ll give you that. You have managed to ascribe many of the stereotypes to black men in that little ‘gem’ of yours. Maybe you should be writing dime novels instead.
LikeLike
I’m not just a thick black woman, I’m really more like a chunk. And yet, I’ve never had a problem getting men of all races to admire me, including my white husband.
Men like what they like, although many will not admit to liking women who at present are considered hefty or chunk as you put it. I’ve been to body-building contests where some of the body-builder’s wives/girlfriends were what would be described as chunky. The men paraded them around and didn’t seem to have a problem with it. The media which projects these unrealistic images has done a great disservice to men in that regards. They have to hide their preferences if it doesn’t conform to what the media is promoting as the current ideal. Bring back the fifties body types!
LikeLike
Also, sexy is sexy. I’m sure that most guys have been there… where you meet a woman who absolutely doesn’t conform to the traditional beauty standards, but somehow, she’s soooo unbelievably sexy! There’s just something about her that turns your legs to jelly.
The problem comes when we guys start worrying about what other people are going to think.
LikeLike
Sam said to Luca Kreutz
My solution to your problem is to continue to date what you know.
Amen. The last thing WoC need is more white men like Nita “Jade” Hanson’s husband.
LikeLike
>>For your information sade is mixed race and she’s married to a jamaican man but she was married to a white man before. She is also stunning and i dont know about in the states but over in the u.k she was an 80′s pin up!<<
OTOH, Sade reports a racially unhappy childhood in the UK, being taunted in high school as a "tar baby."
LikeLike
Africanblackman sounds like some half-clever white racist’s idea of what a militant black nationalist is.
LikeLike
But it would be interesting to see AfricanBlackMilitant’s fluffy Brit ass down in the Maré… 😀
LikeLike
I’ve always found it to be a different experience as a black girl who exclusively dates white men. A lot of black girls have jumped down my throat for it, and a lot of white girls have given me major attitude for it. And some black guys give me dirty looks, even if they are dating a white girl themselves.I have dark skin and wear my hair short and natural, and yeah while there are a lot of guys who only like light skinned girls or mixed girls, there are a lot of guys who like girls with dark skin. I get asked out by white guys more than black guys, but both black and white guys like my butt, but a lot of black guys think I’m too skinny. I have always been attracted to white guys,especially English guys, there is just something about their accents that really gets me, but I don’t think all white men are better than black men. There are good and bad men in every race, to think one race is all good or all bad is ludicrous.
LikeLike
“I’m sure that most guys have been there… where you meet a woman who absolutely doesn’t conform to the traditional beauty standards, but somehow, she’s soooo unbelievably sexy! There’s just something about her that turns your legs to jelly.”
King,
Please explain this. I don’t understand why guys wouldn’t like traditionally beautiful or pretty women as opposed to average. I see this all of the time but don’t understand it. Is it because they are afraid to approach the traditionally pretty woman?
LikeLike
africanblackmilitant: if you are serious about what you say you did, I implore you to watch this video, because it starts of with small things like what you claim to be doing, and ends up in horrible and senseless tragedy like this. Violence only begets violence.
LikeLike
@ islandgirl
You misunderstand me, I didn’t mean that guys don’t like traditionally beautiful or pretty women—that comes as easy as the sunrise in the morning. I just mean that sometimes someone comes along who doesn’t fit into the traditional aesthetic, and you just find yourself mysteriously drawn to the person, despite the fact that they wouldn’t have been cast for the part by Hollywood.
Sometimes the girl is heavier than you you normally like, or skinnier, or has shorter hair, but there’s something about her dimensions and the way that she carries herself that just makes her sexy, exactly as she is. Of course, I also should add that some women just know how to cut their eyes, give you a playful smirk, or flirt without saying anything, and those seem to do a lot better than the “true beauties” who are awkward in their game or shaky in their confidence.
I don’t know… there’s just a lot of ways to be sexy that go far beyond the usual definitions. It’s fun to find sexy where you wouldn’t have suspected it.
LikeLike
Herneith,
They have to hide their preferences if it doesn’t conform to what the media is promoting as the current ideal.
This is so true! I used to think only teenage boys think like that, but I guess I was wrong. There are many immature men out there, who (for some reason I don’t understand) prefer not to date women that they find attractive (if they are not hot by media standards). I guess they are scared of people thinking they are freaks or something. This is sick.
Oh, and women do that, too.
As for the hate crimes, they need to stop, but it’s easier said than done.
LikeLike
My parents were married over 40 years until my mother died a few years years ago. So were my grandparents. If any of them had ever been worried about “interracial” marriage I wouldn’t be sitting here. Me and my four siblings are taxpayers just like so-called “pure” people. We are all educated, have jobs and contribute to the countries we currently live in with our work just like “pure” people. We are a large family including all relatives, cousins etc and have backgrounds from at least 4 different parts of the world. The range goes from the darkest African, to the brown, to the pale, green-eyed European. All in one family. Plus we are all a tight bunch, contrary to popular belief I suppose.
How dare any outsider judging us about what is right or wrong in terms of the interpersonal choices we make or our parents and grandparents made.
Hearing and reading some comments – mostly not on this blog though – it sometimes makes me feel like me and my family might as well be in a zoo. That is, behind bars so that the so-called “pure” people can watch us from a safe distance and intellectualise, frown upon, spit or laugh at us. Then the tour guide goes “ladies and gentlemen, here we have a very interesting species from France – by the way France is a socialist country near Paris. As you can see, they are very primitive as they indulge in miscegenation which is a sin that will send them to hell – Jesus have mercy! Furthermore there are multiple risks in mixing different races. All scientifically proven. I urge you to buy the audio books of Mein Kampf, of the bible and of all literature about intelligent design. The audio books are available in our store right at the exit. The paper version was unfortunately discontinued due to little interest in reading. We’d like to thank McDonalds and ExxonMobil for their kind support. Can we now have a big cheese for Fox news. Thank you very much!”
LikeLike
@Islandgirl
Please explain this. I don’t understand why guys wouldn’t like traditionally beautiful or pretty women as opposed to average. I see this all of the time but don’t understand it. Is it because they are afraid to approach the traditionally pretty woman?
The thing is, there really is no “traditional” beauty because beauty standards change fairly radically over time. What we have (and what you probably have in mind when you say “traditional”) is iconic beauty. These are the looks that get socially sold as “beautiful” at any given point in time.
Ironically, I’m translating a piece right now on Eva Perón and her beauty. She was an actress before she became the first lady of Argentina, but she was not considered “beautiful” in that first role. After she became Perón’s wife, however, she became iconic and her beauty became legendary. The author’s point is that beauty is a hell of a lot more socially constructed than we generally imagine.
Guys like to claim that they are attracted by iconic beauty and they tend to do so in the most emphatic tones. women should take these claims with a grain of salt because this has to do with the micropolitics of male gender which is largely based on performance to and competition around a socially established norm. Males who don’t perform and compete around this norm are called “fags” in childhood and often suffer enormous physical and symbolic violence as a result. So most men get the message: “Don’t be a fag or we’ll kick your ass.”
One of the clearest, most unambiguous ways one can signify that one is “not a fag” is by publically and loudly praising the sexual attributes of whatever female type is currently being hyped as iconically beautiful.
So this is what you’re seeing as a norm: guys who are afraid to express an individual taste when it comes to sex and women because they’ve been so deeply conditioned that to do so opens them up to ostracism and violence. By the time that they are men, this has become completely internalized in most cases, so don’t expect to see much reflection on this (especially because wondering about one’s emotions is also understood as “faggy” – real men are stoic).
But I believe that there are a million and one reasons why we are attracted to people, ranging from the biological (pheromones), to the developmental (someething about him/her reminds you of a key erotic experience you had in the past), to the social (whether or not the person is physically attractive, they are immensely socially attractive). If you’re a guy and you’ve managed to come to grips with “fagball” (the term is C.J. Pascoe’s), you have less incentive to worship at the altar of the iconically beautiful and more incentive to head off after whatever turns your crank, whatever that may be.
LikeLike
Oh, and with regards to “fagball” and race…
When it comes to tying in race to gender and masculinity, what we see is this…
White women are considered to be much more iconically beautiful than black women in a racist society. If a black man is with a white woman – unless runs very counter to the socially-ascribed esthetic (let’s say she’s poor, got dyed-black short cut hair, piercings and wears combat boots), his “catch” generally won’t run counter to the socially-ascribed norm.
When a white man is with a black woman, unless she’s almost exactly like some great iconic black beauty (and the terms you hear all the time in this respect are Beyoncé and Halle Berry), then you are running the risk of getting hit with the adult version of the “fagball”.
Thus the popular perception that many white men with black women are “losers” or otherwise “strange”: there’s a whole range of unexamined racial and gender prejudices that get encoded in these relationships.
This is one of the reasons I come off so harshly here at times at people who want to reduce everything to race. Race interacts with gender, sexuality and class (among other things) in some very non-linear ways.
LikeLike
“How dare any outsider judging us about what is right or wrong in terms of the interpersonal choices we make or our parents and grandparents made.
Hearing and reading some comments – mostly not on this blog though – it sometimes makes me feel like me and my family might as well be in a zoo. That is, behind bars so that the so-called “pure” people can watch us from a safe distance and intellectualise, frown upon, spit or laugh at us.”
I’d say there’s alot of truth to this. The system in the US is set up to empower people who more closely fit a pure racial phenotype and background and disempower those who are ambiguous. I’ve noted before the intensely ideological concept of “passing for white”, which is intended to de-legitimize social interaction between predominantly European individuals and fully European people. There’s also the “not black enough” idea, which is meant to make people like Obama and Halle Berry subordinate members of the black community.
LikeLike
My next question would be, does the majority in the US – irrespective of their origin – agree to this and assume this is right?
I mean, it’s commonly known that purity in humans is a myth. It sounds like it implies that there are efforts being made towards “racial purity”.
LikeLike
@Femi,
Racial purity has been favored throughout most of American history. For a long time, mixing was throught of as icky and degenerate and mixed identities were discouraged. I think this has changed a great deal recently, though. Interracial marriage began to increase steadily in the 60s. The US Census began to let people select multiple race boxes in 2000. Since the 1990s, many very popular mixed race celebrities have emerged. Still, the social order is caught in a time warp in some respects. Mixing produces individuals of widely varying phenotypes and cultural backgrounds. This creates problems with respect to identity and social categorization. In Latin America (which has had largescale mixing for 500 years or so), they have dealt with this issue by leaving social identity up to the individual and making racial definitions liberal. However, Americans generally continue to view racial group membership rigidly, as acribed and reflecting purity. Aggravating this situation is the pathologizing of whiteness in recent decades. Some view a decision by light mixed people to identify as white as an injustice against blacks or dark skinned people because white racial identity is supposedly inherently injust (because we all know that white people are responsible for every problem minorities have as opposed to broken families, defective values regarding education, etc. ;-).
LikeLike
@FG
So you’re saying that basically the majority agrees that how you described it is the “right” way to do. Or perhaps go as far as saying “the rest of the world” (which is about 95% of the world population) who disagree or don’t comply with this concept are all wrong?
LikeLike
“So you’re saying that basically the majority agrees that how you described it is the “right” way to do. Or perhaps go as far as saying “the rest of the world” (which is about 95% of the world population) who disagree or don’t comply with this concept are all wrong?”
Probably the majority of Americans continue to think this way but the percentage has been declining over time. And there are factions in the US who have been trying to export American racialism overseas. I don’t think this way of viewing the world is limited to Americans though. The British seem to have views on race similar to Americans. The American racial system was actually founded by British authorities in the 1690s in an attempt to prevent colonial insurrection by dividing black and white laborers. The British and French racially divided other colonial populations as well. So the US isn’t a complete anomaly in this regard.
LikeLike
I think when Obama got elected it was sort of a wake up call for America. A lot of people could no longer hold in their bigoted views and were exposed. A lot of them politicians and other people we thought better of. It’s was like we weren’t ready to admit how uncomfortable with race we still are. We’d like to think we’ve evolved a lot more than we have. America still doesn’t want to admit that it is as racist as it is, but we are slowly,very slowly, getting there. We think we have come a long way, but haven’t come far enough. We can’t be compliance with racism. Pointing out and focusing someones differences is the first step to dehumanizing a person. Dehumanizing and monsterizing someone or someone’s race makes it easier to hate them. It’s sad that we have to compartmentalize each other so much, at the end of the day humans are ALL pretty much the same and we ALL pretty much want the same things. All of our basic needs are the same. I find it heartbreaking that after roughly 2010 years on this Earth we as a people still can’t live in a world without racism.
LikeLike
Well, one thing’s for sure: something’s got the rednecks riled up.
LikeLike
Thanks King for your explaination! Now I understand where you’re coming from. You’ve addressed a lot of things that I’ve always wondered about.
Thad,
I think beauty transends time. It has to do with facial symetry. Many of the beauties of the 50’s are still considered so today. Hair, styles may change, but beauty does not.
I do agree that there are a million reasons for attraction (pheromones, developmental). And it explains why I see guys approach women who some might think is average and totally overlook a traditionally attractive one.
LikeLike
@Islandgirl
I think beauty transends time. It has to do with facial symetry.
Certainly some aspects of beauty transcend cultures and time, symetric features being one of those things. But “symetric features” is REALLY broad. Here are things it doesn’t cover which are demonstratably considered “beautiful” or “ugly” at different times by different cultures:
Body size and weight.
Size of features.
Which secondary sexual features are more important.
Hair colors and styles.
Skin colors.
…and, above all else, clothing.
Please don’t tell me that clothing is a mere secondary thing here, not when men and (especially) women spend so much time and money choosing it and judging others over it.
Furthermore, great beauties of the past are considered beautiful today mostly because of who they were. I mean look at Jane Mansfield here:
This kind of beauty is now generally considered trashy.
Beauty most definitely changes from time to time and culture to culture. Provable fact. The simple fact of the matter is, your culture and times program you to think much more about what is beautiful and what isn’t than genetics.
LikeLike
@FG
I was talking about 2010, not the 17th century.
The British had 16 ethnic groups in their 2001 census but are currently also working with a system of about 80 ethnic groups. This includes a drill-down of mixed heritages. Although even that system is questionable, it is certainly closer to reality than a consolidation into a handful of “races”.
France has abolished collecting data about ethnicity in the 18th century and it is illegal also in most other European countries. The shock of the third Reich is still running deep. “Race” is widely considered a nazi concept.
However, mixed couples are no public issue in Europe for the vast majority. It might, in some cases, be a private/family problem when either of the partners have racists in their family. For the most parts, it has existed for a long time without any noticeable public, “moral” pressure.
LikeLike
I don’t know Thad, RE: Jayne Mansfield.
Her makeup and wardrobe might be trashy in that shot, but I think she’d translate pretty well today. Her basic features are attractive.
LikeLike
“I was talking about 2010, not the 17th century.
The British had 16 ethnic groups in their 2001 census but are currently also working with a system of about 80 ethnic groups. This includes a drill-down of mixed heritages. Although even that system is questionable, it is certainly closer to reality than a consolidation into a handful of “races”.
France has abolished collecting data about ethnicity in the 18th century and it is illegal also in most other European countries. The shock of the third Reich is still running deep. “Race” is widely considered a nazi concept.”
But you’ve got to understand that there’s a difference between official government positions on “race” and social conditions on the ground. And that things which happened in the 1600s still affect us today (at least in the US).
LikeLike
islandgirl,
I think beauty transends time. It has to do with facial symetry. Many of the beauties of the 50′s are still considered so today. Hair, styles may change, but beauty does not.
I disagree. Many famous women of the 50s are still considered beautiful because of who they are. But women who have bodies like they had are not considered attractive anymore (by mainstream standards).
Facial symmetry is always considered beautiful because it seems healthy (which doesn’t necessarily need to be true, but that’s another story). But even if you forget about clothing, makeup and hairstyles (I say “even” because Thad is right, it is a big deal) there’s still an issue about what is considered a pretty female face and body. And it changed a lot in the past few decades. Women like Keira Knightly or Olivia Wilde (skinny, strong jaw line) are considered extremely attractive today, but these same features make them unattractive by 50s beauty standards. On the other hand, many great beauties of the 50s are simply overweight by today’s standards, or too short, or not tanned enough, etc.
LikeLike
“Certainly some aspects of beauty transcend cultures and time, symetric features being one of those things. But “symetric features” is REALLY broad. Here are things it doesn’t cover which are demonstratably considered “beautiful” or “ugly” at different times by different cultures:
Body size and weight.
Size of features.
Which secondary sexual features are more important.
Hair colors and styles.
Skin colors.
…and, above all else, clothing.”
True, true. It seems like many of the 80s celebrities are not considered attractive anymore because their hair styles and clothing choices at the time are so out of line with modern tastes.
LikeLike
FG,
Ah! 80s hair. It’s an issue on its own.
LikeLike
@King re: Jayne Mansfield
Ick. White as a fish belly, big wide mouth, big boned and tits that probably would flop down to her knees without support or silicon. No, I don’t think Jayen would make it today as a cutting-edge picture of American beauty.
LikeLike
White men do NOT prefer dark skinned black women but they DO prefer foreign black women and foreign black women particulary african obviously tend to be darker than the average aa woman guys, they are STILL not picking you
and the reasons are as followed:
1) african women or foreign black tend to be much more receptive to white mens advances they are not immedietly distrusting and they can pick up on the vibes when men like them
2) they mostly come from 2 parent homes with middle class values so their upbringing isnt that dismilar to the average middle class white man no “i’m strong and independant” rhetoric here!
3) if they were born in america they were taught to assimilate to mainstream american culture and not BLACK culture so they will seem more “white” to a white guy
and therefore more appealing for a serious romantic relationship i.e someone you can bring home to mama not just a casual hookup
4) because they dont adhere to black culture their attire will be far more conservative again an attractive quality for a marriage or seriously relationship minded white man
5) middle class women tend to be more slimmer than lower- class women so this also applies to the foreign black women. As they are tend to be middle class and assimilated to white culture they will take care of their apperance more and most importantly their weight. The african/carrebien diet although quite stodgy is far more
healthier and less fattening than the typical american diet.
The reality is that it hasnt anything to do with colour or even features where dark skinned bw are concerned people,its more to do with culture
Alot of bw will see a dark skinned bw with a white guy and automatically assume shes african american when in fact she’s probably foreign.
personally I believe wm prefer (astetically) mixed race women far more to dark skinned (if they even find women of colour attractive to begin with!) but mixed women tend to be far more in demand and have more options to choose from aka hot men! plus, they are in limited supply; there are FAR more black women in america than mixed. but the sad truth is very few wm actually prefer AFRICAN AMERICAN women to any other no matter what the skin tone is. They wont tell you that though they’ll ego stroke you saying how they much prefer dark skinned women after the halle berry lookalike turned them down and even THEN they’ll pick the foreign bw!
btw I am a black woman i’m just being honest because i’m sick of the phoneyness from both wm and bw.
examples abercrombie and fitch upper crust wm
what they will take:
zoe salanda yes kerry washington no
rashida jones yes nia long no
leona lewis yes kelly rowland no
all these women can get wm but what types? the 3 mutiracial women can get uppercrust “all- american” dudes but the dark skinned ones can really only get wm who are into bw and they DON’T tend to be upper crust.
LikeLike
In any case Femi, I bet “race” isn’t as big a deal in France as it is in the US. Things have definitely improved here. Mixed marriages and mixed people arent as stigmatized as they used to be. Still, there are many who refuse to deal with the consequences of the growth in “irr” in a responsible manner. They are under the impression that it’s still okay to deal with their own insecurities by persecuting, harrassing, and even threatening mixed people, especially those who are closer to the European end of the color spectrum. They refuse to recognize that mixed people need flexibility in their identity choices because of the complexities involved in how the populace judges race. In general, they work against mixed people’s desire to become an organic component of the social order.
LikeLike
mon,
Yes, some white men do prefer dark-skinned black women. And those aren’t just “warm fuzzies” coming from me: I am a black women who would not be considered dark-skinned by majority of people’s categorizations, and who is with a white man. I know this because, if I think of all the black women I’ve heard white men say they like, celebrity or non-celebrity, most of them are dark-skinned and/or thin. However, that could just be because most black women in America or otherwise are on the darker side, IMO, but either way, the preference is not for “mixed” women. You couldn’t be more off there; I wonder how many (non-racist) white men you know. If they really cared about a woman not being “really” black, they would just date a white woman! Simple. But I think, moreover, white men (if they like black women) do not care about the woman’s color/features: I mean, if you’re black, you’re still black. It’s not like with blacks where people differentiate based on skin color or nose width.
“examples abercrombie and fitch upper crust wm”
Oh.
I guess you know mainly the preppy types of white guys? Of course, they wouldn’t be interested in a black woman — they are hardly ever even interested in a woman unless she is white, blonde, and also preppy. Forget black women, they wouldn’t even date a rural white woman; they are far too concerned with the status quo and perceptions of image. But I have to disagree with this:
“zoe salanda yes kerry washington no
rashida jones yes nia long no
leona lewis yes kelly rowland no”
Are you kidding me?!?
Kerry Washington is the white male fave, even before John Mayer made his ignorant comment. Whites guy love, love, love her. I thought it was very ironic when she was paired with a white guy in Lakeview Terrace. Again, I wonder how many white men you know if you don’t know that’s the case. Ditto for Kelly Rowland, but to a lesser extent. And I don’t think, visually, white men would be able to tell the difference between a Zoe Saldana vs. a Nia Long; they look similar.
LikeLike
If things that happened 400 years ago still affects the US today, not many in power positions must have made an effort to change anything for the better – assuming you are talking about negative things.
Even the Germans, who I have experienced as quite stubborn for the most part, have made some amazing efforts in just a couple of decades to become a society driven by reason, judiciousness and humanism, not by defensiveness about their grim past. For the most part, however enough to not even let a hint of that past ever flare up again to the point that it might become institutionalised.
LikeLike
“but either way, the preference is not for “mixed” women. You couldn’t be more off there; I wonder how many (non-racist) white men you know. If they really cared about a woman not being “really” black, they would just date a white woman!”
It’s this sort of angry and out-of-control rhetoric that I was referring to in my post above.
LikeLike
Natasha,
Agreed. I would tie Kerry Washington and Gabrielle Union as White guy favorites. And since most White people don’t associate with many non-White people, if a White man wants to date a Black woman it has to be beyond “obvious” that she’s Black. That doesn’t necessarily mean skin color or certain features, but if there’s uncertainty about her being Black (for whatever reason), he’s most likely to label her White (or Asian or Latina) and act accordingly. Most White people seem to be pretty clueless about Black/non-Black mixes, but that’s probably because they have such limited exposure to the diversity of “Blackness”.
LikeLike
Mira, I honestly do not know any grown up man who likes thin women with strong jaw lines etc. like Keira Knightley. I do know that gay guys who work in the fashion industry think that these type of women are attractive. Unfotunately they also dominate the fashion magazines etc. and keep pushing this image to every magazine and picture and women think that guys like that type of women. They do not.
I think I said this previously but lets go trough it again: I asked from two models is it true that the gay fashion designers and stylists are designing clothes and styles for guys.
The model who worked for years in Paris (for the major fashion houses) told me that everyone there knows this. She said that the only reason they have women at the catwalk is the fact that heterowomen are the biggest buyers of the clothes. If it was not so, there would be long tall teenage guys walking on the catwalk.
The model who had worked in Milan and New York confirmed this. She also pointed that the much idolized small tight butt is in fact a young boys butt. Women do not have usually that kind of buttocks, no matter how much they train and work out. Boys do and that tells you something about the small tight butt crap.
So it is a myth that hetero guys like these think bony immature looking freaks the fashion industry keeps pushing. Normal guys like normal women. Look at the porn industry. How many breastless bony women with strong jawlines you see there? Right. None. They do not appear anywhere in this sex driven business. Why? Because majority will not pay anything to see skeletors having sex. It is just not sexy nor it is appealing.
There is not one or two types of women men like. We like all kinds of women. Mostly we like women who are comfortable with themselves. That is sexy and appealing. It does not even matter what color you are. If you are ok, we like you. It is that simple.
I think all this garbage what how and whatever kind is just BS which tries to sell all kinds of crap to women. One year it is thin eyebrows, next it is right kind of breasts, then it is flat tummy, certain type of toes, toenails, hair, ears, eyes and so on. It never ends because it is important to keep women running after the ideal which does not exist in the minds of the men but in the minds business men. They take your money while you try to look like Keira and spend all your money on products, diets, supplements, clothes etc.
And all the time we men are just looking for a normal woman. Black or white or what ever.
LikeLike
FG, if you want to twist everything into “everyone hates the mixed people” then go right ahead; I think it’s pretty clear that my comment was not meant to “diss” mixed women/people and I’m not “angry”. I mean, can you have ONE comment where you’re not directly or indirectly whinging about multiracial people and related issues in America? It’s just your paranoia that is causing this interpretation of others’ viewpoints as having something against “multi-racial” people, not reality. I mean, my children will most likely be “multi-racial” so you don’t really have a leg to stand on claiming that I dislike them. You have to be one of the most confused and conflicted persons I’ve never met… Next!
Jasmin, I agree on Gabrielle Union. I don’t know what perspective mon is coming from, because it seems like the exact opposite of what I’ve experienced.
LikeLike
I also think the fashion industry is mainly interested in concentrating attention on their products, not on the models. Hence the androgenous bodies. It’s a fairly recent phenomenon that a lot of models are actually known by their names and become famous outside the catwalk. Before Naomi Campbell, Cindy Crawford, Claudia Schiffer etc became global superstars in the nineties, most models remained anonymous.
It seems like it’s difficult to sell a fashion product on a body that might distract too much attention.
Then there is the “moral” factor in some cultures. This commercial for instance was apparently banned on a few US TV stations. I must admit that myself and most of the people (male and female) I know wouldn’t be able to tell which product this commercial is for… 😉
LikeLike
@ natasha w believe what you want to belive these are my observations i have lived amongst whites my entire life most of my friends are white so i know how they think and I observe their behaviour not WHAT THEY SAY. I never said kerry washington couldnt get a white man i said she couldnt get a preppy attractive uppercrust one ive seen her boyfriend and no way could he get a white version of her i.e a natalie portman type and herlast boyfriend was hideous looking and no where near as sucessfull as her kerry is a godesss she should be able to get the best of ANY MAN but the sad fact is she unable to get white men see beyond her colour whereas the mixed women i mentioned can.
why is zoe salada getting all the good film roles and on the covers of mens magaines and kerry isnt if she is so LOVED by wm? white men think shes HOT for a black girl but not HOT in general the fact is if you are as beautiful as kerry why wouldnt you expect the best man no matter what the race and why would any bw settle for a mediocre wm just becuase hes white?
LikeLike
“FG, if you want to twist everything into “everyone hates the mixed people” then go right ahead; I think it’s pretty clear that my comment was not meant to “diss” mixed women/people and I’m not “angry”. I mean, can you have ONE comment where you’re not directly or indirectly whinging about multiracial people and related issues in America? It’s just your paranoia that is causing this interpretation of others’ viewpoints as having something against “multi-racial” people, not reality. I mean, my children will most likely be “multi-racial” so you don’t really have a leg to stand on claiming that I dislike them. You have to be one of the most confused and conflicted persons I’ve never met… Next!”
Why do I comment on mixed people alot? Because they are attacked alot! The multiracial issue came up on numerous threads on this blog long before I started commenting. I think the flurry of activity is motivated by the realization that duplicitous anti-mixed militants such as yourself are losing control of the situation. The ideological constructs of mixed race Americans that your type have been propagating since the 19th century (“tragic mulatto”, “passing for white”, “self-hating”) are being openly challenged and discredited. Not only are multiracialists working successfully for the social equality of mixed Americans, but they will also redeem and gain recognition for the countless mixed people in the 1800s and 1900s who were demonized and belittled by the amoral racialism practiced by whites AND BLACKS.
LikeLike
Sam
Mira, I honestly do not know any grown up man who likes thin women with strong jaw lines etc. like Keira Knightley. I do know that gay guys who work in the fashion industry think that these type of women are attractive. Unfotunately they also dominate the fashion magazines etc. and keep pushing this image to every magazine and picture and women think that guys like that type of women. They do not.
I swear, this is what is going on in my culture. I guess it’s different elsewhere, but this is exactly what’s going on in my culture. The ideal female is tall and skinny (maybe without strong jaw line and with big breasts, but being really skinny- model skinny is an imperative). Meaning: skinny legs, narrow hips, no butt. (Especially not the last one!)
And there is a reason for men in my culture to like this sort of female figure. First of all, many girls and young women in my culture are really skinny (have that sort of figure). This wasn’t the case a few decades ago, but it is today. Second of all- media and financial problems. Yes, these two go together. Because with bad economic and political situations, your society is not stable any more so people want to appear more “in”, modern and “cosmopolitan” than they actually are. So they take everything they see on TV literally. When it comes to female beauty, the way models and actresses dress and the way they look becomes the only thing that is considered attractive. Young girls want to look like that, and they boyfriends want them to look like that.
For example, the woman in the commercial Femi posted would be considered obese in my culture, while women such as JLo are seen as fat.
So no, it’s not like I’m making this up.
People might be less brainwashed in other cultures, though.
LikeLike
Why do I comment on mixed people alot? Because they are attacked alot!
Wha… I don’t really know about the real life or other websites, but I didn’t see anybody (especially not regular commenters) attack mixed people! So FG, I do think you are attacking the wrong people here.
On the other hand, true, people here don’t seem to see mixed individual as “speshul” like some indicate they might be, but since when treating everybody as equals means attacking them?
LikeLike
When I said “like some indicate they might be” I didn’t mean they are more special than others, but that there are people (usually white, I might say) who see mixed individuals as “oooh, so cute! Exotic! Speshul!”
Also, it is strange to think people who are in interracial relationships and have/want to have kids with their current partners as being “anti-mixed”. True, there are people who dislike their kids being biracial, or people who are racist despite being in interracial relationships… But none of the people here expressed that sentiment.
LikeLike
Mira,
What’s strange to me (across cultures) is that people reference model thinness even though most models are not the gold standard of sex objects, at least in the US. The supermodel “boom” ended in the 90s–now most of the people on magazine covers are celebrities, and the standard of “pretty” is really low. (I like Drew Barrymore, but she’s not super-attractive.) So it seems like a non sequitur, to me at least, when people bring up the fashion industry. Celebrities are a good example of “thin is in”, but we are talking about 2-6s (with some 0s, like Eva Longoria), not skeletal waifs. The skinniest woman I can think of on television is Marcia Cross, and she’s certainly not held up as some great beauty. (Though that probably has to do with her age as well. Still, none of the traditional sex symbols–Megan Fox, Kim Kardashian, A. Jolie, etc.–are extremely thin.
LikeLike
This is very interesting subject, because it shows the way globalisation and glocalisation work. US people know what is real and what is not, but people here don’t, so they assume what is shown in media it’s the way “it should be”. Of course, it’s also a form of self-hate, because why would people here think what (white) Americans think it’s “in” or attractive? But many do and believe in model/actress beauty standards.
Models are still extremely popular in my culture and for many girls it’s still a dream job as it was in the 90s.
Now, I know there is a different standard for models, and that actresses are “allowed” to be a bit “heavier” or not that tall. But the point is, the beauty standard goes from a typical model’s body weight and figure to typical thin actress one. Megan Fox and Angelina Jolie are good examples of it. (Not Kim Kardashian, who is seen as fat).
This is a crazy situation of wanting to be like the west but hating the west at the same time (like many people in my culture do).
LikeLike
“I know this because, if I think of all the black women I’ve heard white men say they like, celebrity or non-celebrity, most of them are dark-skinned and/or thin. However, that could just be because most black women in America or otherwise are on the darker side,”
I did say that in my post they most bw are darker skinned anyway so as I have already stated there isnt a preferance for them over lighter skinned bw. Some white men see a clear difference between bw and mixed women hence why they would say that they are attracted to the darker bw because they dont really view the rashida jones/ vanessa willimas types as BLACK but if it were a choice between the two black and mixed in who they found the MOST attactive they would definately choose the latter. I also have to point out that in regards to the white guys that you refered to just because white men can apreciate a black woman’s beauty doesn’t mean they will ACTUALLY date one.
I think we have to define the difference between white men who are “into” i.e exclusively or mostly date bw ( the minority) and the white men who normally wouldnt ( the majority) wm who are into bw are such a small minority its practically non existant Besides If you are drawing from that pool your not exactly gonna get the best and brightest due to america’s racial hierachy and social conditioning in regards to black women.
There are 2 distinct groups of white men. In the first half of my post I was talking about wm who like bw and in the second half of my post I was talking about wm who dont. I believe that abagond was also referring to the latter. The wm who wouldnt normally date a bw will however date and marry a mixed woman over a darker bw any day of the week the child is more likely to come out almost if not totally white so they wont have to deal with society’s disapproval then there is also the culture if the mixed woman has one white parent they will be more comfortable in white america than the average bw. There are sooo many reasons as to why a white man who is either open minded or has looked beyond race for THAT particular woman will be more likely to enter into a serious union with a mixed woman over a black one and contary to what you say upper-crust wm will date and marry women of colour but with severe stipulations and one would be their complexion.
You say that wm dont prefer mixed women to black women
well if that is the case why do I regulary see mixed race women with the type of wm that ww wouldnt only DATE but would be envious of the girl he dating andsome of these mixed girls arent even all that. I hardly ever see black women or asian women for that matter with a wm that I would wanna be with or any self respecting ww would either and be honest, do you?
celebrity wise leona lewis was linked with chase freaking crawford I mean can you imagine HIM with a bw?
thandie newton is married to an accomplished middle class and attractive wm
zoe alanda has admitted her boyfriend of 10 years is abercrombie and fitch to the nth degree
paula patton maried to a goodlooking quality guy (robin thicke) and he’s INTO BLACK WOMEN and he still picked a mixed race one!
I could go on and on sadly bw do NOT get the best wm occasionaly they do alright but it’s not as easy for them to get quality wm as it is mixed race women and that’s just reality.
LikeLike
I don’t think it’s easy to tell what kind of black women white men like, because even if we want to talk in generalizations (and not individual cases) there are more than one reason for somebody to date inter racially.
When it comes to physical appearance alone, there is obviously two ways to go: pick somebody who is of another race but as close to your race as can get, or go for a complete opposite.
So whites in the first group would go for lightest blacks they can find, biracials or those who have “not typical African features” (whatever that means). Blacks who do this would go for the darkest whites or Latinos.
Whites in the second group would pick the darkest blacks, because they seem the most “authentic” and blacks would go after lightest whites, with blonde hair and eyes.
Is this bulls…t? Of course it is. People don’t really think like this when they choose a potential partner, and it’s there is always more than physical appearance that matters. But if you really want to make a generalization, both of mentioned “strategies” make equal sense. (Or no sense at all).
LikeLike
mon says,
I never said kerry washington couldnt get a white man i said she couldnt get a preppy attractive uppercrust one ive seen her boyfriend and no way could he get a white version of her i.e a natalie portman type and herlast boyfriend was hideous looking and no where near as sucessfull as her kerry is a godesss she should be able to get the best of ANY MAN but the sad fact is she unable to get white men see beyond her colour whereas the mixed women i mentioned can.
laromana says,
mon, I understand that the historically ANTI-BW RACISM in Amercian society can make it seem like it’s impossible for “unmixed looking” BW to get “preppy, attractive, uppercrust” WM/NON-BM but I wanted to note the IRR BW/WM/NON-BM couples below to illustrate that this is NOT TRUE.
BW/WM/NON-BM IRR COUPLES:
-Rutina Wesley (True Blood) and (her husband) Jacob Fischel
-Michael Steger (90210) and (his fiancee) Brandee Tucker
-Ivan Sergei (Charmed) and (his wife) Tanya
-Peter Norton (Multimillionaire) and (his wife) Gwen
-Claire Hope Ashitey (Children of Men) and Boyfriend
-Matt Stone (South Park) and (his wife) Angela
-Prince Maximilian and (his wife) Angela Brown
-Nicholas Gonzalez (Actor) and (his wife) Regina King (Actress)
-Roderick Spencer (Screenwriter/Producer) and (his wife) Alfre Woodard (Actress)
-Tom Verica (Actor/Director) and (his wife) Kira Arne (Actress)
-Keesha Ulricka (Girlfriends) and (her husband) Bradford Sharp (Singer/Songwriter)
-Kevin Knotts (Writer) and Kim Wayans (Actress, Comedienne, Writer, Producer)
-Brian Musso (Pro Football) and (his wife) Heather Headley (Singer, Songwriter, Producer, Actress)
**Please visit mychoicetolove.com for info. on these IRR couples.
mon says,
why is zoe salada getting all the good film roles and on the covers of mens magaines and kerry isnt if she is so LOVED by wm? white men think shes HOT for a black girl but not HOT in general the fact is if you are as beautiful as kerry why wouldnt you expect the best man no matter what the race and why would any bw settle for a mediocre wm just becuase hes white?
laromana says,
mon, Although I don’t begrudge fellow Afrolatina, Zoe Saldana her success, I, too, have wondered why she is suddenly Hollywood’s TOKEN Black actress. I’ve NEVER liked the way Hollywood IGNORES the majority of beautiful, talented Black actresses and chooses to ONLY promote a “certaing type” of BW (eg. Halle Barry, Beyonce, and now Zoe). I think maybe Zoe is being overhyped because she is model tall/thin and fits a NARROW, White American brand of “acceptable Black beauty” as opposed to Oscar winner, Jennifer Hudson or Oscar nominees, Taraji Henson or Viola Davis.
LikeLike
mon,
“Some white men see a clear difference between bw and mixed women hence why they would say that they are attracted to the darker bw because they dont really view the rashida jones/ vanessa willimas types as BLACK but if it were a choice between the two black and mixed in who they found the MOST attactive they would definately choose the latter.”
Uhhh, Vanessa Williams is seen as black. In fact, I’ve specifically heard her referred to as “light-skinned black woman” by white men. I don’t know why you’d think otherwise. Rashida Jones, not so much.
“I also have to point out that in regards to the white guys that you refered to just because white men can apreciate a black woman’s beauty doesn’t mean they will ACTUALLY date one.”
But the post is referring to “who [they] go for,” i.e. who they would date. And that is who I was referring to as well because those are the women they’ve attempted to date.
Also, please note that out of the black women that frequent this blog, all that are with white men would be considered dark.
“I think we have to define the difference between white men who are “into” i.e exclusively or mostly date bw ( the minority) and the white men who normally wouldnt ( the majority) wm who are into bw are such a small minority its practically non existant… There are 2 distinct groups of white men. In the first half of my post I was talking about wm who like bw and in the second half of my post I was talking about wm who dont.”
…Really now? Only two? Sure about that? 😉
What about the white men who don’t exclusively or mostly date black women BUT would date one if they happened to meet one that they liked? Like, I don’t know, the white men that I, and the other black women who frequent this blog, am with?
You’re creating false dichotomies. VERY false dichotomies.
“Besides If you are drawing from that pool your not exactly gonna get the best and brightest due to america’s racial hierachy and social conditioning in regards to black women.”
Ummm… WHAT?
I swear I have to really shake my head at some of the things some black women say about themselves on this blog. Some clearly don’t think much of themselves. And guess what? If you don’t, neither will anyone else.
Are you really a black female, though? Because I have a hard time believing that a black woman would say that any man that specifically likes black females is not the sharpest tool in the shed; saying that to do so is a sign of low intelligence. Or maybe I just don’t want to believe that black women think so lowly of themselves.
“There are sooo many reasons as to why a white man who is either open minded or has looked beyond race for THAT particular woman will be more likely to enter into a serious union with a mixed woman over a black one and contary to what you say upper-crust wm will date and marry women of colour but with severe stipulations and one would be their complexion.”
Look, I’m not convinced at all that you have any idea what you’re talking about. Not at all. In fact, I’m sure you’ve never even dated a white guy, let alone, gotten close to marrying one. Because they do not say “Oh, you’re too dark, I can’t marry you!” Whites do not generally have the color complex that some blacks have. I feel pretty confident in saying that and I’m sure anyone that actually has experience with with white men will cosign me on that. They can tell what’s dark and what’s light amongst blacks, but they aren’t elevating one over the other. 99 percent of black women are going to be darker than they are anyway, so there’s really no need to.
“You say that wm dont prefer mixed women to black women well if that is the case why do I regulary see mixed race women with the type of wm that ww wouldnt only DATE but would be envious of the girl he dating andsome of these mixed girls arent even all that. I hardly ever see black women or asian women for that matter with a wm that I would wanna be with or any self respecting ww would either and be honest, do you?”
Yeahhh… you’re a white woman, aren’t you? Or a black man? You have to console yourself with thinking that black women and Asian women only get the trash white men?… Good one (not). If you’re a black woman, please get some counseling. I mean that with the utmost respect. Because you have very low self-esteem.
Your anecdotal evidence of who you’ve seen white men with is just that. Not that there is anything wrong with anecdotal evidence, but it’s clear you’re engaging in confirmation bias.
I know for a fact that white women would date my SO because… all the women he dated before he met me were white. And if we were to break up, he’d probably date a white woman because those are the women he is around the most. Now, imagine that! A white guy dating a white woman! Jasmin will tell you the same of her boyfriend.
I didn’t even mention this in my original reply because it was just too obvious, but you do know that the black women you said white men would not date have, in fact, dated white men? And in fact, some are dating white men as I type this?
Kerry Washington, for example, has dated a slew of white men. Her current:
Looks attractive to me.
If white men would never date Kelly Rowland, then why was she recently dating one?
Also looks attractive to me.
There: your own examples were used to debunk your claims. Have a nice day! 🙂
LikeLike
Oh yes, thanks for mentioning Thandie Newton… a perfect example since her mother is a dark-skinned Zimbabwean woman and her father is a white man.
You’re making this very easy! Keep on.
LikeLike
“Yeahhh… you’re a white woman, aren’t you?”
That crossed my mind as well. Maybe a white woman with mixed kids trying to convince herself that her daughters are better, maybe?
LikeLike
I dont think mon is a white woman, maybe a white or black man.
I dont say this because I don tlike what “it” is sayng but becuase he/she(most likely he) is applying typical male wants(attractive/eye-candy looks) to females. Most females are not looking for the most physically attractive or “preppy” looking man. It helps if he has those qualities(well physical attractiveness, I dont care much for preppy). Most women want look for a stable provider/self-sofficfiecnt types first and formoest.
In mon’s posts it is clear that upper-crust= most physically attractive. Im sorry but its usually males that associate high-quality mates with looks. Females associate high quality mates with stability/ability to provide.
LikeLike
sorry for the typos.
at any rate I think you gals are wasting your time trying to argue with him
LikeLike
Mon could very well be a white woman. Women do pay attention to looks (especially younger women) and they will focus on another women’s partner’s flaws as a way to bring the woman down. And I’ve heard that sentiment from white women before: “Asian women only get the ugly white men.” It’s sour grapes par excellence. It could be a white man, but I doubt it. Most white men wouldn’t say that about other white men; they would only be making themselves look bad.
LikeLike
Yeah the only criteria should be if the man is breathing and providing a paycheck. Anything else is superfluous!
LikeLike
^^^
Not what I meant. Generally speaking physical attractiveness is more important to men than it is to women. Thats why I find it odd a woman would be tearing down the white men black women get with solely based on looks. Its like a man says he has a new girlfriend and another man tries to tear him down by saying “I bet your girlfriend is dumb, cant make money and doesnt have a degree”…its off because we know men dont look for degrees and earning potential when looking for a woman. These things dont hurt a woman but they arent required
LikeLike
@ Natasha W
I suppose so…Not so likely that it would be a white man, liek you said he would be making his own look bad…
At any rate my Spidey sense tell me “mon” isnt a black woman. I have a hard time picturing a black women(even one who’s against IRR and BW/WM relationships) to invest so much time into longs posts about how BW get trash WM.
Reeks of sour grapes to me.
LikeLike
Well, Y, s/he did mention that these white men won’t be the “best and brightest.” So s/he wasn’t totally focused on looks. But I get your point, definitely. It could be a man.
LikeLike
>>mon–I believe that abagond was also referring to the latter. The wm who wouldnt normally date a bw will however date and marry a mixed woman over a darker bw any day of the week the child is more likely to come out almost if not totally white so they wont have to deal with society’s disapproval then there is also the culture if the mixed woman has one white parent they will be more comfortable in white america than the average bw. There are sooo many reasons as to why a white man who is either open minded or has looked beyond race for THAT particular woman will be more likely to enter into a serious union with a mixed woman over a black one and contary to what you say upper-crust wm will date and marry women of colour but with severe stipulations and one would be their complexion. <<
I don't think you read all Abagond had to say about that matter. He said that was his first presumption, but that he found it incorrect upon actual observation.
If you ask a white man a general question about female attractiveness, you will undoubtedly find him most often identifying women who most closely fit the media standard of beauty.
But that's not necessarily what you see them all married to. Men make all kinds of "compromises" on the physical ideal (as do women) when it comes to actual mating. And, as Abagond has also observed, women actually have more control over that than men do.
A reasonably attractive dark-skinned woman who applies the same "I'm interested in you" signals that a white woman uses will have quite a bit of success among X-Gen and Net-Gen white males…and some success even among white Boomer males. For white males who are not in the rock-star ranks, subtle "I'm interested in you" cues make most any woman much more interesting.
LikeLike
Black women don’t like white men, by nature, they only go for white men, as a second choice to black men. We black men are the most sexual desired race of men on the planet and that’s a fact.
LikeLike
africanblackmilitant, although I think you’re a troll and only attempting to make black men look ignorant and irrational, I will say that white men are not a “second choice” to black men. LOL. Is that what black men are thinking now? Wrong, wrong, wrong. Plenty of black women just like MEN, no matter their ethnicity. Black men are most desired, sure, that’s why less than 1 percent of white women marry them, right (Yes, seriously, check the stats)?
LikeLike
The wm who wouldnt normally date a bw will however date and marry a mixed woman over a darker bw any day of the week the child is more likely to come out almost if not totally white so they wont have to deal with society’s disapproval then there is also the culture if the mixed woman has one white parent they will be more comfortable in white america than the average bw.
Because we all know that men are thinking about their future progeny when they date a woman, amirite? [roll eyes]
We black men are the most sexual desired race of men on the planet and that’s a fact.
Are you speaking from your experience of having worked as a hustler in downtown tearooms, ABM?.
LikeLike
“Because we all know that men are thinking about their future progeny when they date a woman, amirite?” [roll eyes]
When you are thinking of embarking on a serious realtionship with a woman leading to marriage you do. I’m not intrested in the “just dating” argument i’m talking about MARRIAGE!
LikeLike
To all who have adressed me yes I am black NO I am not a bm or a wm or a ww lol! I am a bw who wants the VERY BEST for bw but so many bw have such low self esteem and are in denial about the situation that they are selling themselves short; settling for any wm that gives them some attention aka the magical wm that LOVE BW LOL! I actually get intrest from quality white men but that is becuase I PICK them not the other way round and that is key and even they are few and far between ( btw i am NOT darkskinned but i am black i’d say medium about nia long’s skin tone) I get far more intrest from sleazy older washed up wm though and most bw know who i’m talking about! I’ts FAR harder to get the good ones if you are a bw but its NOT impossible as I have been with a few great ones you just have to raise your standards and not go for any one because they claim they are attracted to bw.
So many wm are getting black and asian women for cheap they used to get mixed women too but they have started to raise their standards (halle berry anyone?)
in my estimations based on experience mine and people I know
attractive ww have access to 95-100% of wm
attractive bi-racial about 65-70%
attractive black women 15-20%
average looking ww 50%
average looking biracial 30%
average looking black 2-5%
ugly ww 20%
ugly biracial 12%
ugly black 0% (i.e precious types)
also mixed women can get access to other races of men that most black women cannot case in point I know a lot of mixed females who are with south asian (indian) and also asian men not to mention mixed race men and of course white. I dont know any black women who are with asian men whatsoever. It may be that mixed women are also more open minded about the men they chose to date but i think its also about the fact that they are seen to be more attractive to non black men than black women and sometimes even WHITE women -their appeal is more universal. For example ask any race of man and they’ll say halle berry is hot.
my sister (average looking by any standards) had to jump through hoops. She lost weight, changed her hair, clothing, hit the gym 24/7 to get her medicore looking but decent quality white boyfriend only for him to leave her for the first available white girl.
Some may say that she should have gone for a white man into bw but as I said they are few and far between AND those men would NOT be on her level trust me!
if bw are happy with medicore wm then fine but im worried that they have high standards for bm but lower them for wm what does that say about your self-esteem? believe me
medicore to poor qualiy wm ( i.e white women’s rejects) are not lowering their standards when they date outside of the race on the contrary- they actually RAISE their standards they cherry pick the best from non -white women but sadly bw lower theirs.
LikeLike
Mon, you are NOT a black woman. I’m tired of people online claiming to be something they are not, just so they can have more credibility. I could definitely buy you as a “mixed” black woman or a black woman who think she looks “mixed,” but not a black woman period, sorry. It would make sense given your over-estimation of “mixed” women; it wouldn’t be the first time that such has happened. Like I said, if you are indeed a black woman, you need counseling. And the irony of this statement: “I am a bw who wants the VERY BEST for bw but so many bw have such low self esteem” is too much to bear (if you’re a black woman, which I very much doubt). Cognitive dissonance, much?
No, most white men that hit on me are around my age (not surprising, since I am mostly around men my age). So, not old. I don’t have any experience with that. Also, I see plenty of black women with Indian and other Asian men; I saw one couple this morning. And your estimations of what woman can get what is a bunch of bullsh*t, to put it bluntly. First you are basing it on your subjective assessment of who is attractive (and who looks “mixed”: to me, Halle Berry looks like she could have two black parents; I doubt anyone guessed she was mixed when she first hit the scene) and then you go ahead and speak for people you clearly have very little experience with.
Anyway, your claims have already been shown false, so you can give it a rest. Are you going to claim that the men I linked to are low quality? (Here’s the second picture again, since it didn’t work the first time: http://blog.newsok.com/gossip/files/2008/09/1221139859kellyman.jpg ) What kind of white men do you think white women get, Brad Pitt? Let’s be real here. Also, men always say whatever woman is branded “hottest” in the media is attractive. That doesn’t mean that they necessarily go for these women or that they don’t notice other women. But you’re just wasting all of our times now, with your ridiculous claims; this will be my last response to you.
LikeLike
^^^^
This is what is so irritating about all of these CNN “70% of black women are single and can’t find a man” specials. I do believe it’s true that as black women are becoming more successful than some black men, it may be difficult to find a black man in her realm. But most make it seem that bw are single because they are not approached are desired by men. When in reality, it may be that some are not as open as other women and are more selective.
People like mon, who I don’t believe is a bw either, hone in on those programs and stereotypes of bw as desperate and relish in it. I don’t know his/her agenda, but sorry to disappoint. Black women are desired and attractive without the marketing and free advertisement that some other races receive.
LikeLike
Islandgirl,
Very true. I think that women who are happy with their relationship status (whatever it may be) tend to flock together, just as women who are unhappy do. Like begets like, so if you are convinced that being Black means you are destined to be alone it’s not surprising that your friends and your success in the dating world reflect that.
LikeLike
These women look like they’re having a blast.
http://www.youtube.com/user/fdlart
I like their spirit.
LikeLike
Natasha,
africanblackmilitant, although I think you’re a troll and only attempting to make black men look ignorant and irrational, I will say that white men are not a “second choice” to black men. LOL. Is that what black men are thinking now? Wrong, wrong, wrong. Plenty of black women just like MEN, no matter their ethnicity. Black men are most desired, sure, that’s why less than 1 percent of white women marry them, right (Yes, seriously, check the stats)?
As much as I agree with you about ABM being a troll (and possibly not black at all), I must say stats are not the best indicator of desirability of black men (or anybody, for that matter). The fact that only 1% of white women marry them says more about white women’s racism, not black men’s desirability.
The fact is that black men are fine, but they are no better or worse as a group than any other group of men (or more attractive, masculine, etc).
Oh, and
Anyway, your claims have already been shown false, so you can give it a rest. Are you going to claim that the men I linked to are low quality? (Here’s the second picture again, since it didn’t work the first time: http://blog.newsok.com/gossip/files/2008/09/1221139859kellyman.jpg ) What kind of white men do you think white women get, Brad Pitt? Let’s be real here. Also, men always say whatever woman is branded “hottest” in the media is attractive.
The link is not working for me so I can’t see the picture. 😦
As for “Brad Pitt” argument, who says he is the best quality white man out there? That’s right: media. So women often make the same mistake men do: they see celebrities that are popular at the moment as the most attractive. However, I don’t know if women pay more attention on other things that make a quality man (for some reason, everybody talks about women not putting the physical appearance first, but do see a lot of couples where a guy is more attractive than a girl, and there’s nothing wrong with it. I just think men talk more about it, while women are somewhat shy to admit they care about guy’s physical appearance.
mon,
I don’t know who you are and what’s your gender or race. However, I do find the stats you presented truly confusing. Where did you get that? The truth is, “your estimations” (or anybody else’s) mean nothing in scientific terms.
Also, these stats seem to indicate that white men are the only ones worth fighting for, which I am sure was not your intend.
Plus, they indicate that all men seek in a woman is physical appearance which I don’t believe it’s true. Sure, most of them would have casual sex with a hot woman- but in all honesty, most of them would have casual sex with any woman. As I understand, you are talking about marriage. Many men don’t choose a spouse based on her looks only.
LikeLike
Mira, what I meant by ‘desirable’ was not only physically. Women definitely do care about looks, but they also care about social standing and ability to provide, as Y mentioned. And, let’s be honest, most American women perceive black men to be the least of men on the last two accounts. That doesn’t make it right or necessarily true, but yes, those all factor into “desirability” as a partner.
Ugh, forget the link. It always works at first, but then stops. It was a picture of Kelly Rowland and her attractive [white] boyfriend, completely negating Mon’s claims that a man like him wouldn’t date her.
Oh, I definitely don’t agree that Brad Pitt is the hottest white guy. I find him quite average, as I’ve said elsewhere on this blog. I just used him as an example of stereotypical “hot white guy” as mon used Halle Berry as an example of “hot black woman”. Yes, these are all dictated by the media, and I don’t think either of those two are the “bestest”.
LikeLike
When you are thinking of embarking on a serious realtionship with a woman leading to marriage you do. I’m not intrested in the “just dating” argument i’m talking about MARRIAGE!
Mon, seriously, guys don’t do this. At least not the vast majority. White or black or whatever, we tend to date and only THEN think of marriage. We aren’t like women who seem to go into dating relationships with the same attitude that they approach used car dealerships.
LikeLike
“I could definitely buy you as a “mixed” black woman or a black woman who think she looks “mixed,” but not a black woman period, sorry. It would make sense given your over-estimation of “mixed” women; it wouldn’t be the first time that such has happened. Like I said, if you are indeed a black woman, you need counseling. ”
Why is “mixed” in scare quotes? If you have substantial amounts of ancestry from more than 1 continental group, you’re mixed, end of story. And by “substantial”, I don’t mean a great-great-great grand parent up the family tree. Just because you would not be considered mixed on any planet on earth does not give you the right to deny genuintely mixed people a right to identify as such.
LikeLike
*any place on earth
LikeLike
Oh FG, you crack me up.
That’s the broadest definition of “mixed” I’ve ever heard, funny coming from someone who generally considers mixed to be “any person I subjectively label in a given moment” /emo.
By your definition, I am mixed–what up, cuz? 🙂
LikeLike
“By your definition, I am mixed–what up, cuz?”
I seriously doubt that.
LikeLike
FG, just STFU, thanks. Or, when you respond to my comments, respond to what they actually say, not some esoteric meaning you’ve attached to it, or else you will be ignored. If you’re confused, ask me for clarification.
Now, moving right along.
LikeLike
The subject of who is “mixed” belongs under the biracial post:
Further comments here on the matter will be deleted as off topic.
LikeLike
oops sorry.
LikeLike
Well, I’ll just chime in to second the STFU, FG. Don’t take out your stupidity on me–I hear it’s catching! 🙂
LikeLike
“I seriously doubt that.”
Yeah, I sensed the condensending nature of that comment.
LikeLike
Islandgirl, I was thinking the same thing. I knew this kind of topic was going to head there anyway.
LikeLike
I am a white (sort of italian/middle eastern looking) woman with curly hair and white american men REALLY REALLY tend not to like me that much. I have more success with latin, middle eastern or european men.
However, definitely the white men you are talking about are white AMERICAN men, who have their own beauty standards white people from other countries might have other beauty standards.
LikeLike
also this has become controversial, like all such topics, but i know exactly what you are talking about when you mention the kind of black women white men like. It’s black women that have “whiter” features, not because they’re white – but more like east african or ethiopian features. They don’t like features that are considered to be more west african or typical african like bigger lips and flatter noses.
Just thought I’d put my two cents in to explain the “cutesy face” thing for you a little further, because it might not be too clear for everyone.
LikeLike
I don’t think the “cutesy” face means Euro at all, actually: Euro would mean the opposite since Euro features tend to be sharper and thinner, thus more “older” appearing, and seeing as he used Garcelle Beauvais and Gabrielle Union as examples who I wouldn’t say have any sort of Euro features. I think it would probably mean more of a rounded/button nose, maybe plump cheeks, and a face that crinkles when the woman smiles. Those are the main features that the women in the original post have in common.
But I’m interested in the type of white men that black women like. I wonder if there are any themes in the vast expanse of tastes. I’ve noticed it isn’t for “darker” whites (at least for black women that like white men in general, and not just mainly non-white men), as usually thought.
LikeLike
—
Originally Posted By Natasha W
africanblackmilitant, although I think you’re a troll and only attempting to make black men look ignorant and irrational,
—
If I’m in a fight with someone I think it’s ignorant and irrational to let the person who I’m fighting with dictate to me how I should fight
—
Originally Posted By Natasha W
I will say that white men are not a “second choice” to black men. LOL.
—
Yes they are.
—
Originally Posted By Natasha W
Is that what black men are thinking now? Wrong, wrong, wrong.
—
Yes, every single black man on the planet thinks this way.
—
Originally Posted By Natasha W
Plenty of black women just like MEN, no matter their ethnicity. Black men are most desired, sure, that’s why less than 1 percent of white women marry them, right (Yes, seriously, check the stats)?
—
Who a woman marries and who they sexually desire are two different things. Black men are the most sexually desired race of men on planet. Nothing turns a woman than the sight of a tall handsome black male, but here is the thing, women don’t marry necessarily for sexual desire. Value and sexual desire are DIFFERENT things. Secondly ever thought that maybe some black men don’t want to marry white women but just sex them ?
The things women respond to though, while they appear to be social constructs, still go back to evolution. Otherwise why is some alpha handsome black guy on the street more sexually desired than a nerdy white millionaire businessman. ? Who has more societal value ? Who gets laid easier by a random stranger ?
Think :
Alpha Handsome Black guy = Sexual Desire
White Business Nerd = Value
NEITHER are CONSISTENTLY getting girls in a situation where it’s not put on a plate. They play NUMBERS game. The alpha handsome black guy attract, but the girls run off giggling. They LIKE the guy, but they won’t F**K him. He keeps approaching until one DOES. He never looks like an idiot. Girls don’t think bad of him. They just think “I’d like to, but I never would”. Conversely, the white business nerd has all the girls WANTING to be attracted to him, and giving him all the chances. But most won’t get with him, because he can’t attract them but they WILL marry him.
Now of course in a racist system of white supremacy, white men have tricked women into thinking that they are men. So in most western countries black men are SEEN and THOUGHT OF as the least influential and wealthy and white men are SEEN and THOUGHT OF as being on the top, therefore women who would marry interracially ‘generally’ seek out WM instead of BM because they believe that WM possess the qualities which ALL women subconsciously seek. This is not necessarily because white men are the most attractive but more because they are SEEN and THOUGHT OF as having all the assets that attract women ; Money, power.
Furthermore women find it hard to tell the difference between a man who DOES good and a man who IS good. A man might have a great job, car etc but batter his wife or molest kids, just because a white man DOES good that does not mean that HE IS good. Our sisters would do well to remember that.
LikeLike
…and our troll in blackface is back, it seems.
LikeLike
Troll or not, I must admit I do agree with him when it comes to “who is good” debate: just because a man is rich, successful and can provide doesn’t mean he is automatically a good guy or a quality guy. There’s nothing wrong in being poor or “unsuccessful” at work. Well, it sucks, no doubt, but it doesn’t make you a crappy human being.
(Now, I guess ABM had something different in mind).
LikeLike
Ummm, yeah. I’ll just wait for this troll to eventually get bored of spouting nonsense and/or get banned. Debating this is kind of pointless. Obviously, black = alpha and white = nerd (I’m sure some people wish! And I don’t think people understand what alpha means and why some women are not attracted to the stereotype of alpha behavior), so the entire premise that argument is based on is false.
Mira, it doesn’t automatically make a guy a quality person, but that wasn’t my point at all. My point was what is factored into desirability.
Btw, this is not just my opinion. There were at least a couple of studies done on this. The results of one showed the black men had to make something like $20,000 more than non-black Latinos to be considered for a date by a white woman and double that amount, I believe, than a white man to be considered for a date, I will try to find them, but I’ll probably post somewhere else since it’s a bit off-topic.
LikeLike
That should read black =/= alpha and white =/= nerd. And alpha doesn’t mean “macho” behavior.
But anyway, people seem to think that white supremacy only affects black women in dating, when that has been shown repeatedly, is not the case. Bottom line, if black men were as “desirable” as ABM says they are, they wouldn’t have to bring so much more to the table to be considered on the same level (for a date, not even talking about marriage here) with other men.
LikeLike
“Who a woman marries and who they sexually desire are two different things. Black men are the most sexually desired race of men on planet. Nothing turns a woman than the sight of a tall handsome black male, but here is the thing, women don’t marry necessarily for sexual desire. Value and sexual desire are DIFFERENT things. Secondly ever thought that maybe some black men don’t want to marry white women but just sex them ?”
If you say so. You sound arrogant to think that EVERY SINGLE will be turned on by you. People like you probably get turned down a lot. You would be dissapointed with me because 90% of bm aren’t physically attractive, to me. Also, why would someone want to marry someone that they didn’t sexually desire ? Seems a bit stupid. Probably the main reason why most marriages end in divorce in this country.
LikeLike
Natasha,
But I’m interested in the type of white men that black women like.
Good idea. Abagond, is there a post on this already?
I think there are a lot of differences, as Natasha said, between White men who “prefer” Black women and White men who are just generally into women (and include Black women as equally desirable options as other women), and the same goes for Black women. Obviously the women on this blog are self-selected, but none of them appear to be dating “wigger” types, and conversely their husbands/boyfriends don’t seem to prize White standards of beauty. (I think all of us have natural hair?) I don’t know about faces, since not everyone has a picture of her face as a gravatar, but I think we are all thin/slender, which fits with Abagond’s theory.
LikeLike
edit: EVERY SINGLE WOMEN
LikeLike
—
Originally Posted By Usagi
If you say so. You sound arrogant to think that EVERY SINGLE will be turned on by you.
—
It’s true. Don’t hate the messenger.
—
Originally Posted By Usagi
People like you probably get turned down a lot.
—
I do, but I also get laid a lot.
—
Originally Posted By Usagi
You would be dissapointed with me because 90% of bm aren’t physically attractive, to me.
—
Silly point.
90% of men (regardless of race) aren’t physically attractive to most women, luckily for me I’m in that 10%.
—
Originally Posted By Usagi
Also, why would someone want to marry someone that they didn’t sexually desire ? Seems a bit stupid. Probably the main reason why most marriages end in divorce in this country.
—
Dating and marriage is a business for women. If marriage goes well, women are HAPPY. If marriage goes bad, women are HAPPY because they get to snatch everything in sight, everything the man worked hard for. Divorce laws and pretty much law in general favours women.
So women really don’t have nothing to lose when getting married. It can even be a career move for them. No wonder girls cry with their boyfriend if he is not proposing. Plus they get this nice ring. It’s all good for women if you think about it. What’s sexual desire got to do with it ?
And plus women usually settle down and get married to the so called nice guy who gets the woman just before her sex drive wanes because that woman has been has had CONSTANT sex all through out her youth, so all her needs have been satisfied. What’s sexual desire got to do with it ?
[IMG]http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo188/trilby200/19639_295166153908_832623908_329065.jpg[/IMG]
LikeLike
—
Originally Posted By Natasha W
Bottom line, if black men were as “desirable” as ABM says they are, they wouldn’t have to bring so much more to the table to be considered on the same level (for a date, not even talking about marriage here) with other men.
—-
Your ignoring my point and coming with your own point, STRAW MAN argument as abagond points out. Women don’t marry for sexual desire for reasons which I have explained.
One thing you should note which is most important is that when I say that we black men are the most sexually desired men on the planet, no-one has denied it. You’ve just run off and quoted a few silly surveys.
Listen – when I talk about sexual desire I’m talking about GUT LEVEL SEXUAL DESIRE here, not some school girl “Oh he’s cute” type thing. All women desire black men, funny thing is most black men don’t even know this, and I’m not trying to pump myself up here, it is, what it is.
[IMG]http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo188/trilby200/19639_295166153908_832623908_329065.jpg[/IMG]
LikeLike
Ummm, where did my comment go, abagond? If my comment is off-topic (which most of it wasn’t), so is all of the above.
LikeLike
Maybe this militant is a comedian? I think so.
Fact is that in most parts of the world it does not matter what color you are. If a woman finds you ok, it’s a go. If a man finds a woman attractive, it’s a go. Men and women will have sex regardless of the skin color. This is an absolute fact.
Marriage? Most men do not mind if a woman is black or red or pink or green or whatever, as long as she is the woman they want to marry. It might be that in States, because the long history of rasicm and rasicm that still exists, color is a big deal. Not so in many parts of the world.
You go to Paris, Berlin, London, Stockholm etc. you will see interracial couples all day long and nobody pays any attention to it. Of course rasicm is in these countries too, there are dumbasses all over, but for the majority it is no big deal.
Trough this discussion I’ve been wondering the race concept. It seems to me that it is very, very important in USA. One drop, mixed, quarter, what ever; people are trying to place themselves into somekind of racial box.
Maybe some of you might tell me why do you feel it is so important to specify what race or mix you are? I find this very interesting. Is it something you want to do, or is it because your official documents everywhere ask this, teach you that you must define yourself racially?
Maybe this could be another topic, abagond? Why racial profiling is so important in USA?
LikeLike
So. I guess I will repost my comment.
Usagi, don’t question the man! Don’t debate! (He doesn’t know how to anyway; just repeats himself like a broken record.) He obviously knows better what women like than actual women do. It doesn’t matter the evidence to the contrary — why do we need actual studies and opinions from women when we can just use his powers of mind-reading? He knows it: Da’shaun on the corner makes every woman melt with desire. LOL.
Jasmin,
“Obviously the women on this blog are self-selected, but none of them appear to be dating “wigger” types, and conversely their husbands/boyfriends don’t seem to prize White standards of beauty. (I think all of us have natural hair?)”
I had a longer response, but I’ll shorten it and say my hair is semi-natural since I am transitioning. And I’m in kinky twists now, which he loves. As for standards, he’s said “I like black women black and white women white.” So I guess that means he judges each by their own, separate standards.
“I don’t know about faces, since not everyone has a picture of her face as a gravatar, but I think we are all thin/slender, which fits with Abagond’s theory.”
I’m on the thin side, but I have curves so I don’t appear model-thin. I basically agree with abagond on the faces thing, since those are pretty much the same black celebrity women my SO likes: Gabrielle Union, Kerry Washington, etc. He also likes Toni Braxton, who I think has a similar kind of face.
sam, he’s probably a troll. But he is parodying actual beliefs I’ve seen bandied about by men on the net, even if he is taking it to extreme.
LikeLike
Natasha,
I’m transitioning too! (High five :-))
All of the Black women my boyfriend likes are some variation of solid brown, but he doesn’t watch very much tv or keep up with celebrities, so I’ll have to ask him for some examples. (Besides Gabrielle Union–he has an unhealthy obsession with her.)
As far as “thin”, I’m thinking size 8 and below (depends on the height). Funny, the stereotype is that White men like big boobs and Black men like butts, but every guy I’ve ever dated (of any race) has always preferred butt to breasts. I feel like the standards for boobs are more lax than those for butts across the board (basically you just can’t be flat-chested).
LOL @ Da’Shaun.
LikeLike
Natasha,
Mira, it doesn’t automatically make a guy a quality person, but that wasn’t my point at all. My point was what is factored into desirability.
I know. It was the way ABM interpreted it. And I know we should not encourage him, but it’s funny to note that, troll or not, he makes some confusing statements.
And yes, I realize it’s all (probably) a joke, but still… Isn’t it weird that a (presumably) black guy wants to monopolize “black woman that white men like” discussion? It has nothing to do with black men!
Jasmin,
I believe there was a guest-post “white men that black women like”. Let me try to find it.
Edit: No, I was wrong. It is “white men that like black women” post… Similar, but not the same.
Maybe one of you ladies could do a guest post on the subject (white men that black women like). It would be interesting to read. 🙂
LikeLike
Mira,
I just went back and re-skimmed that thread (I actually wrote the last comment a few weeks ago and forgot all about it). I don’t know if I could do the whole alpha/gamma/beta breakdown–that always confuses me. 🙂
Natasha,
I didn’t know your SO was a freelancer! I need to have my boyfriend pick his brain, because that’s what he wants to do after graduation. 🙂
LikeLike
Jasmin,
I find the alpha/beta etc. breakdown confusing, because I tend to believe these things are far more subjective than they seem. What I’m saying is, what is “alpha” male to me, might not be to you, and there’s nothing wrong with that.
It’s different with animals, though (dominant male, etc.) but humans are cultural beings. We don’t rely that much on biology.
But there is definitely “not worth your time” group of men (but that’s another story).
I’d still love to read the “white men that black women like” post, if there is such a thing (if it’s possible to tell what “kind” of white men black women like).
LikeLike
Jasmin
“As far as “thin”, I’m thinking size 8 and below (depends on the height).”
Oh well, then I’d be thin (size 5/6, I’d probably be around 3 if it weren’t for the hips).
“Funny, the stereotype is that White men like big boobs and Black men like butts, but every guy I’ve ever dated (of any race) has always preferred butt to breasts.”
My SO said butts are “gaining on” breasts. Lol. But, hmmm… some of the guys I’ve known like breasts more though, even some black guys. He loves them all; I don’t think he can decide.
He is indeed a freelancer. He could never do anything else since he can’t follow a schedule and doesn’t like committing to anything (except me of course!). I told him about you guys and showed him a picture. He thinks you two are a good-looking couple.
Mira,
“And yes, I realize it’s all (probably) a joke, but still… Isn’t it weird that a (presumably) black guy wants to monopolize “black woman that white men like” discussion? It has nothing to do with black men!”
What do you mean? Of course it does! Black women could never date a white guy without somehow involving black men, directly or indirectly. And, it doesn’t matter which white men like black women because black women don’t like white men, they only like black men. /sarcasm
[Can you hear my eyes rolling to the top of my head?]
I’d have to do some more research before I’d be able to write that post.
LikeLike
Natasha,
Aw, that’s very sweet of him. 🙂 I’m sure you guys are very nice looking as well–maybe we’ll get a picture one of these days? 😉
LikeLike
Ha, yes. I only took down my face gravatar because I don’t appreciate internetz stalkers. I will post one on your blog, probably. I was going to post his sister(s) to illustrate a point (on your blog), but decided against it.
LikeLike
Greetings from Finland!
I’ve been reading this blog for a couple of weeks and find it fascinating, so instead of lurking, I decided to participate. So far I’m very impressed with the quality and intellect of discourse (excluding a few selected idiots) here. Normally blogs and formus dealing with even less delicate subjects turn into s**t-fests in a nanosecond.
I, as a nordic white guy, have pretty much always found black women attractive. To me, those two exemplary categories are factitious at best. I’d date pretty much anybody from BOTH categories. In general I fail to see the difference between the two. To me, a woman can be beautiful in thousands of different ways. I personally have found voluptuous women to be sexually most attractive, regardless of race. So, you’d think that i’d go for “thick” women, but for example the woman in the picture on top of the page is very, very attractive to me, despite the fact that she is a lot skinnier than what I normally prefer. Her face, hair, clothes and maybe even the fact that she reads a book, make her very appealing to me. So to me, a woman is more than the sum of her parts.
I think that white men in general are attracted to women who are portaryed in media to be desirable. Since there are a lot more black female celebrites (actresses, singers) on tv and magazines, black women in general are becoming more and more desirable. And I think some of the more prominent features of black women are becoming more acceptable, and the spectrum of mens’ tastes is getting wider. I’ve personally always been attracted to exotic looking women (latin, middle east, black), probably because Finland is genetically and ethnically so boringly homogenic. Just too many blondes, I guess, lol!
I’m probably repeating a lot what has been said already more eloquently by smarter people than me, but it’s just my 2 cents ( euros!). 🙂
Hannu
LikeLike
Yay! I know what you mean about Internet stalkers. My boyfriend has suggested I friend people on Facebook and take up the more personal things there (since I worry about who might be lurking on my blog), but I’m not even sure about that (I’ll probably do a post on that too).
LikeLike
@Mira
There’s nothing wrong in being poor or “unsuccessful” at work. Well, it sucks, no doubt, but it doesn’t make you a crappy human being.
…It’ll just make you unattractive to most women. 😀
LikeLike
Jasmin,
I understand his (and yours) concern for your privacy, but do think twice about Facebook. It’s easier to follow and stalk people out there than on blogs or message boards. If you share your full name or address or other personal info, friends of your friends can easily access it and do whatever they want with it. It may not sound scary, but remember that friends of your friends might not be their classmates and family, but also random people they met online or added as friends just for the sake of playing games such as YoVille (those games sometimes require you to have more friends, so people add random people).
While with website, it’s not such an easy job for stalkers, as long as you don’t share any personal info online (full name, address, etc).
(Sorry for the off-topic, I thought this was an important thing to say).
Thad,
…It’ll just make you unattractive to most women.
I disagree. Call me a hopeless romantic, but I do think women don’t care about that sort of things as much as they claim. On the other hand, I do believe they care about physical appearance more than they are ready to admit.
LikeLike
@Mira
Yes, I will call you a hopeless romantic, as well as ideology blinded. It is VERY rare for a woman to marry someone who is lower status.
LikeLike
We are getting off topic here, but here’s the thing: this might be cultural, I don’t know. In my culture, women work as much as men. It’s a norm. There is still sexism, but women grow up preparing to work as much as their spouses and to bring money. So instead of finding a guy who can provide, many seek for a guy who would help them with domestic work (because many guys still don’t want to do that).
Now, there are women who are golddiggers, but there’s a special name for them: sponzoruše 😀
It’s not that women are not attracted to power. However, many don’t seek a man who have that more money than them. I don’t know how to explain it. None of my friends is like that.
Guys, however, often can’t take when a woman is earning more than them. It makes them fill useless. But that’s another story.
All in all, my experience says many women (around me, at least) don’t see men who are poor as lacking quality or who are bad. Again, it might be cultural- being smart, educated and poor is more or less norm here.
LikeLike
I think women care about money/financial stability, but other factors can come into play and they do marry those with less education or a lower income at times. Especially since women have been able to gain education and career of their own, this has been increasing. on My SO hadn’t graduated from college when I met (although he has now) and he probably makes less money than I do (but I’m not sure because I never asked and since he is self-employed it probably varies from year to year).
As far as how rare it is in the U.S., here are some pretty graphs on that, from Pew Research:
Not really that rare.
LikeLike
It has nothing to do with women’s willingness to WORK and bring something to the marriage, Mira. I agree that this is the rule.
What I am saying is that women STILL very rarely marry below themselves in terms of class and status.
So sure, a woman might make 50,000 USD a year: she’s looking for a guy who makes at least that and preferably more.
This is a pretty well proven fact all across the west, Mira. You seem to be mistaking what I’m saying for thw argument that women look for a guy who provides EVERYTHING for them.
@Natasha
According to those graphs, men are three times more likely to have a partner who makes less than they do and you think the opposite “is not all that rare”?
You’ve got a different take on stats than I do, girlfriend.
Imagine if I were to say whites are three times more likely to have a better wage than simmilarly educated black. I’d bet you’d find that statistically significant as all get out. 😀
LikeLike
Thad, just give it up. The sarcasm always comes out when your claims have been disproven. It just shows that you’re unwilling to admit when you’re wrong.
There is more than double the percentage of women making more than their husbands than the amount of blacks in the U.S. Are blacks “rare” in the U.S.? No. They aren’t the majority, but they are not rare.
LikeLike
Thad,
I’m not saying there is no true to this. It’s not really about the money per se; women want somebody who is equal to them, while men often don’t care about woman being of the same education level or status, etc.
I am saying it might not be THAT true like some people think. On the other hand, men might value physical appearance, but they don’t care about it as much as it’s believed they do.
As for women, many fall for sweet talking bastards or “macho” men who don’t deserve them. It goes against any logic, unless it’s about the stereotype that “dominant” men are sexier- which precisely means women do care about those things more than they are ready to admit.
I believe there are researches that show women value a man’s height above many things, sometimes including income and status. While it’s true a short guy needs to be rich and successful to get women interested in him, a tall and handsome guy doesn’t need to be as successful.
PS-Back to topic (somewhat). Is there a size converter? I believe I’m around size US size 8 and 12 (well, 8 for top, 12 for bottom, lol), but I am not sure.
LikeLike
@Natasha
I say that women generally don’t marry men who are poorer than them. You link us to graphs that show this to be true: only 19% of women are married tomen who make less than they do.
And you say that you’ve “disproven” my point? Sister, God give me as many “disproofs” like this as possible in my profressional life! 😀
As for blacks, I don’t understand your point. I’m saying that any like imbalance in black/white stats (i.e. three times more white rich than black) would be jumped upon by you as statistically significant. But when it’s male/female, somehow those stats just disappear from view. 😀
LikeLike
Sorry, but 22 percent (not 19) is statistically significant. And 1/3 (the amount of women who have a higher level of education than their husband) is also significant. I don’t know where you or when you took statistics, but it needs to redone. Or stick with the soft sciences.
And you don’t know anything about my views on the incomes of whites vs. blacks, as I’ve never posted on the topic. So don’t put that stick-a-general-ad hom-on-any-abagond-commenter on me. Or add a smiley which is supposed to mean what?… You’re “right”? LOL. Stop, please. But thanks for reminding me why I usually scroll right past your comments. Any discussion with you will never go anywhere because you can never get your a*s out of your head long enough to admit when you’re erred.
LikeLike
And, yes, that was meant to say “a*s out of head” (ponder it for a second).
LikeLike
No one’s saying it’s not statistically significant. My point isn’t that absolutely no one does this. My point is that the vast majority of women – 78% – don’t do this.
My argument is that women are still by-and-large looking for men with higher status. These stats show that quite clearly, so thank you for posting them, Natacha.
And you don’t know anything about my views on the incomes of whites vs. blacks, as I’ve never posted on the topic.
Natasha, that was a “ferinstance”. I cannot believe that in any other comparison, you’d find a 3:1 ratio anything but very significant. Here, however, you’re waving it off as no big deal.
And, yes, that was meant to say “a*s out of head” (ponder it for a second).
Such a clever young lady. Did you think that one up all by yourself?
LikeLike
My argument is that women are still by-and-large looking for men with higher status.
Of course, you must take into account what men want when choosing a spouse. Perhaps many of them don’t want their wife to earn more than them or to be more educated. So these numbers don’t necessarily show what women want or don’t want in a man.
LikeLike
I’m going to throw a generalization out and let the women correspondents tell me their opinion:
I believe women still want a “stand up” man, a man who will be protective. What that means to a particular woman may vary greatly depending on her culture and personal history.
For instance, it might be a man who make less money, but makes enough to support her if it became necessary, or showing a credible willingness to work two or three jobs if necessary. He doesn’t have to do it–just make her believe that he would and could. A bring-the-money-home kind of guy.
If she’s not yet very wise, it might be a “bad boy” or a rebel because bad boys seem to be able to kick everyone else’s butt for her sake.
It might just be a smooth talker, if she’s had a particularly love-starved childhood.
But I’m going to say that in general, a man has to convince a woman in some way that he will always have her back, grab her when she’s falling, fix the flat tire or find someone who can, get up at night and kill whatever is making the noise downstairs, and not run away screaming like a little girl when someone threatens her. And rub her feet.
And if he can do that, it’s okay if she makes more than he does.
LikeLike
Hmmm… Actually, you might be right. Woman do want a “stand up” man, but what it actually means it’s highly subjective and depends on a woman.
In my case, I care more about a man being faithful and loyal than a provider. Also, I grew up without a father (and so did my mother) so we are pretty good at fixing things around the house (no help needed!)
So a man needs to stand up for me and protect me if needed, but I think emotional support is what I need the most.
Also, being compatible is very important!
LikeLike
Given the fact that black women, hell, ALL non-white women do not have a GUT LEVEL attraction for white men. Their attraction for white men can only be media induced. It is an act of intelligence and love for us to accept our own. They hate unity among the black people. A continued war is made upon us by the white people.
The black woman is the black man’s field to produce his nation. If he does not keep the enemy out of his field, he won’t produce a good nation. If we love our vegetable crops we will go out and turn up the leaves on that vegetable stalk and look carefully for worms that are eating and destroying the vegetables. We will kill that worm – right ?
We protect our farms by pulling up our weeds and grass by the roots, by killing animals and birds, and by poisoning the insects that destroy our crops in order that we may produce a good crop. How much more valuable are our women, who are our fields through whom we produce our nation.?
LEAVE THIS WHITE MAN !!
LikeLike
lol Comparing whites to worms and black women to fields…
LikeLike
I think I’m gonna find me a sexy black woman just to piss africanblackmilitant off. Might even have brown babies with her to boot.
LikeLike
Thad,
There are a multitude of reasons why those stats are that way besides women looking for men with a “higher status.” One being that men still make more money than women for doing the same job. The other being that men might not want to marry a woman that makes more money than them or women who make more money do not want to get married (after all, multiple studies have shown that as woman’s education and income increase, her marriage opportunities and rates decrease). It could be a combination of all of these above factors: that is more than likely.
I would always find a 3 to 1 ratio significant because, unlike you, I don’t change positions in order to make myself look “correct.”
Yes, I thought that up ALL by myself. Just like you thought of presenting a 3 to 1 ratio as statistically insignificant, all by yourself. LMAO! Maybe you should look at some actual numbers before blathering next time… it will save you some embarrassment in the future. Or STFU. Or both. Because at this point it’s clear you’re merely waffling.
LikeLike
@Natasha
I would always find a 3 to 1 ratio significant because, unlike you, I don’t change positions in order to make myself look “correct.”
O rly? 😀 Because your first take on this was, and I quote: “Not really that rare”.
3:1 ratio, Natasha? Yes, that’s pretty rare. And while there are indeed a multitude of reasons for this, none of the ones you brought up explain it. The fact that men make more than women, for example, is only relevant if – given everything else – women are looking for same- or higher- status mates. As for higher-education leading to less marriage opportunities, why is that? Because women do not want to marry “beneath themselves” while men often will. Thus, when a woman goes up in class and status, her marriage opportunities automatically decrease while a man’s INCREASE: the woman has fewer potential mates, the man more.
And while, yes indeed, I have heard men on occasion complain that they don’t want their wives to make more than they do, these complaints almost always come from working class, lower status guys. And I have heard FAR many more women describe men’s attractiveness in material and economic terms than I’ve heard men complain about high-earning women.
LikeLike
Exactly, not that rare at all. But, whatever you say Thad. Sure. Fine. Now just quit blabbing, thanks.
LikeLike
africanblackmilitant,
If it is your mission to draw us, BW who date WM, back to the fold you are failing miserably. To objectify any woman has the same affect as citronella to mosquitoes. I am not a field. I am not property. I am a woman of faith and will.
The content of a man’s character is more important to me than the color of his skin. When a man proves to me his intellect, compassion, and financial stability (yes, I said it) than he is worthy of my time and attention.
A man who has not explored the world, lacks a work ethic, and cares little for humanity is not worthy of my time nor my attention.
Thad, my love,
When men start having babies they will understand why it is so important to women to have a man who can provide for her. Pregnancy can put you out of commission before and after. Most of us need a man who can bridge that gap until we are ready to return to the workforce.
LikeLike
Thad, my love,
When men start having babies they will understand why it is so important to women to have a man who can provide for her.
LOL! Right, Luna. Y’see, that’s why women can’t have any political power or high-paying positions, either: you’re just too easily taken out by pregnancy.
Try another one, sister. You SERIOUSLY don’t want to go down the “Pregnancy makes us too vulnerable” road…
LikeLike
Yes, I brought up pregnancy. The reality is no one can have it all. I am a woman of a certain age. I’ve learned that people who have highly successful careers RARELY have highly successful personal lives. It takes an exceptional partner to hang in there when you work 15 hours a day. It is next to impossible top know your children when you only see them on the occasional weekend and just before bed. You’re delusional if you think you have an Oprahesk career and a family. Even Oprah recognized the reality of her choices.
LikeLike
“We gotta do this because our biology makes us do it?”
Please…
If that were the case, we’d see significant differences in the mating choices of, say, rich women who can afford nannies and the like and suffer no financial pressures and poor women. And yet both groups of women avoid marrying below their station.
While I agree with you that most people can’t have it all, I highly doubt that women’s supposed vulnerability due to pregnancy is why they look for wealthier guys.
LikeLike
—
Originally Posted By Luna
AfricanBlackMilitant
If it is your mission to draw us, BW who date WM, back to the fold you are failing miserably. To objectify any woman has the same affect as citronella to mosquitoes. I am not a field. I am not property. I am a woman of faith and will.
The content of a man’s character is more important to me than the color of his skin. When a man proves to me his intellect, compassion, and financial stability (yes, I said it) than he is worthy of my time and attention.
A man who has not explored the world, lacks a work ethic, and cares little for humanity is not worthy of my time nor my attention.
—-
Black women DO NOT have a GUT LEVEL attraction for white men.
But I know that asking the black women or any women of colour on this blog opinion on black men is bit like asking Ronald McDonalds opinion on vegetarians. Do no take what I am writing lightly. I say to you that it is a disgrace to act so loving toward a people who have been our worst enemies and who will go to war against each other before they will give you and me equal justice under their own laws. We do not need soft talk when it comes to the truth.
I just think the fear of the white man has caused you to love them in a crazy kind of way. You are like a woman desperately in love with a man who does not love her. Therefore, this love is blind. This man can beat, torture, ravage, humiliate, shame and mock, but she will yet love him. And even when someone like me tries to tell you that this man is no good for her and certainly does not love her, you will yet love him, you will become angered and defend such a man. This is a very sad thing, but a very true picture of black people. We LOVE our tormentors.
DO NOT LET THEM TRICK YOU
LikeLike
@ Africanblackmilitant:
“Black women DO NOT have a GUT LEVEL attraction for white men.”
And you know this how? Are you a black woman? Or are you by chance a scientist conducting extensive research into black women’s guts?
Call me crazy, but maybe, just maybe, there are some people out there who are not as pathologically hung up on race as you are.
“I just think the fear of the white man has caused you to love them in a crazy kind of way. You are like a woman desperately in love with a man who does not love her. Therefore, this love is blind. This man can beat, torture, ravage, humiliate, shame and mock, but she will yet love him. And even when someone like me tries to tell you that this man is no good for her and certainly does not love her, you will yet love him, you will become angered and defend such a man. This is a very sad thing, but a very true picture of black people. We LOVE our tormentors.”
Personally, I think those black women on this blog in interracial relationships would be a better judge of whether their man loves them than you, who has never even met them.
Maybe when you get a nice girl of your own you will stop being so obsessed with trying to undermine the loving relationships of others.
LikeLike
africanblackmilitant,
You have missed the point of this blog. No one here dismisses black men. We embrace the choices that have been presented to us. No one here seeks to undermine the relationships of others. Well, perhaps, people like you.
Here is my point: Love, true love, is so very precious. Why would anyone seek to put a label on it? To judge an entire race of people on the actions of a few makes you no better than the Nazis, the Klu Klux Klan, or the Skinheads. I feel I am better than that. I feel I have evolved beyond the notions of slight variances of DNA. After all, genetically we are 98% identical. Why sweat 2%?
It’s time we see individuals, not archetypes. There are real issues in this world — hunger, poverty, abuse, war. Given all of these, the color of ones skin is irrelevant.
LikeLike
He’s a white troll, most probably ES.
@ABM
Do no take what I am writing lightly.
It’s hard not to take what you write any other way, ABM, when you come across as a one-man, post-modern minstrel show.
LikeLike
But I know that asking the black women or any women of colour on this blog opinion on black men is bit like asking Ronald McDonalds opinion on vegetarians
I happen to love MacDonald’ s Angus burgers with bacon and cheddar cheese. In fact, I’m going to buy one now! They also have a nice Caesar’s salad! I’m getting hungry!
Do no take what I am writing lightly.
How can I when you have such good taste in fast foods.
We do not need soft talk when it comes to the truth.
No we don’t! Here’s some truth for you; 1. Mind your own business as to who is hooking up with who. 2. Take your triknology elsewhere. 3. Maybe some of the racialized women posters do have a problem with black men . What of it? If they do, that is their problem. Reading a blog is not going to convince them to the contrary. That is something they have to deal with. Browbeating into ‘re-igniting their ‘love’ for black men, ain’t going to work. In fact they may become more entrenched. 4. As a proponent of free choice I say let the chips fall where they may. Dear, the more these women you are concerned with, who hook up/date/marry white men, the more for me!!!!! 5. Blow it out your hole you onanist!
You are like a woman desperately in love with a man who does not love her.
This sounds like fifty percent of the female populace or a lousy romance novel!
Therefore, this love is blind
This sounds like a refrain from a lousy drinking song!
This man can beat, torture, ravage, humiliate, shame and mock, but she will yet love him.
A lot of men do this, it’s called S&M. Which one are you? A dominant or a submissive? Really guy, where do you get your information from in regards to current day interracial relationships? Porn sites?
We LOVE our tormentors.
Speak for yourself sir, as not everyone on the board is into S&M!
LikeLike
We LOVE our tormentors.
How did I manage to miss a great straight-line like this?
You LOVE them, do you ABM?
I think that answers your question, Herneith: ABM’s a bottom.
LikeLike
Luna
I do not support the belief that interracial relationships represent progress or the demise of racism. For non-white people with a white sex partner, this means that you MUST see racism in a manner that allows for GOOD WHITE FOLKS. That is, white people who definitely don’t do anything to participate in the system of white supremacy….. but as with snack chips, it’s generally difficult to stop at one.
This white person will PROFOUNDLY shape how you perceive white people at large. Ramifications ? You will be intolerant of any analysis of racism which suggests that every white person is a participant in the system of white supremacy, this is unacceptable for the maintenance of your integrated relationship as well as your sanity.
Hence racism becomes ABSTRACT.
—
Originally Posted By Luna
There are real issues in this world — hunger, poverty, abuse, war. Given all of these, the color of ones skin is irrelevant.
—
You see these issues as ABSTRACT and having NOTHING to with the system of racism and white supremacy. You name the hunger, the poverty, the abuse and the war and I’ll bet you as much money as you want that I can put a white face on it faster than you can name the members of the Spice Girls. The system of white supremacy is designed to confuse non-white people. Racism is a product of white behaviour having sex with a white partner confuses this truth.
THE PROBLEM IS WHITE PEOPLE.
Now don’t get wrong you will admit that racism persists. However, you will say that racism exists because of laws, statues, codes, customs, chance… anything, anyone but the white person you’re seated with and smooching. When white people address terrorism and crime, they make CERTAIN that everyone remembers that there are specific individuals to blame.
TERRORISTS create TERRORISM. CRIMINALS create CRIME. This flawless logic dictates that if Racism/White Supremacy endures, living, breathing Racists/White Supremacists (White People) are responsible. Sexual intercourse with a White person demands that you or any non-white person rejects any discussion of racism that implicates White folks -especially the white person whom sees you naked.
I would not talk like this if I did not love black women. There are lots of good black men out there, but here is thing….. IT MAY NOT BE REFLECTED IN THEIR APPEARANCE, just brothers who are trying survive and climb out of the snake pit of white supremacy.
LikeLike
I don’t worry much about how “white people” perceive me. Neither do I concern myself with how “black folks” perceive me.
There will always be some -ism. It’s easy to look outside of yourself for your personal woes. Institutionalized racism is a thing of the past. Social racism is alive and well.
The problem is too many black people keep looking back, pointing to what has happened. When you begin to put negativity in its place. Negativity can become the fuel for your successes. I enjoy watching the haters as I overcome my personal challenges. Nothing gives me more pleasure.
I’m not a Polly-Anna. I don’t let history keep me from living the life I deserve.
LikeLike
I’m not sure where to begin here.
ABM:
You argue the virility of the Black Male, but claim that the birthright of Black Race is being usurped. And I do believe that every people has a right to life and self determination. However, individual decisions on interracial relations (which are in the far minority) do not constitute any threat to any individual race.
In fact, if they did, this would be an example of genetic drift, and such a massive one-way genetic drift would probably have a good reason, in terms of adaptation and survival.
So either, you argue for the preservation of the Black Race, and the usurp of individual rights, despite no actual threat to race.
Or you argue the preservation against a genuine genetic drift, though, in such a large case of drift, it is determinant based upon adaptation and survival of the fittest.
Given that I see no massive numbers suggesting that Black Populations are being usurped by White (Indeed, most ‘White Nations’ are in a state of population decline); I must assume that the second option isn’t valid.
No, rather, you are a remnant of black nationalism. Arguing against race, over the concept of class. You make vast call between a man who does good, and a good man, and very assuredly claim that all white men make up some sort of monolithic evil. Apparently black people aren’t capable of evil. Apparently white people aren’t capable of good. Any rational person will know that no race, nationality, or even a family acts with total unity…and often conflicts are their harshest at the smaller levels.
No, you are remnant. Reactionary in the extreme, and by an equal amount mislead. You focus on race to no end, and can never acknowledge the good of anyone who doesn’t look like you. Indeed, anyone who doesn’t look like you of lighter pigmentation must’ve been accomplice into the ransacking of the black race.
Yes. The reactive remnant. The same type, that understandably, exists in continental Africa, who decries birth control (despite famine, AIDs, etc) because it is obviously a white conspiracy. Albeit an effective policy of population control and personal safety would save many lives…
However, in the end, rational people can’t blame reactionary elements such as yourself. You are as antiquated as your diatribe, and will likely find no minds willing to support and further your ideas.
LikeLike
Rational: that was one of the most well thought out and rational replies on any blog or forum I’ve ever seen. I rather enjoyed reading it and wholeheartedly agree. Kudos.
LikeLike
On a second, less destructive note, I do think that certain trends of class warfare use Race as a tool, and a weapon. But I think corporate culture is far more effective at that. Patent controls over genetically modified crops, which should be public domain for the good of mankind. Decreasing agricultural investment in Africa by about 80% in recent time.
Decreasing levels of taxation on the rich, ever since the decline of the Soviet Union.
Increasing levels of corporate and government malfeasance the world around.
Maybe you should go off somewhere and consider these elements, before you devote so much time to so little of an issue.
LikeLike
It’s funny but 30 years ago my wife and I got married……she is black and I am white and while we received many derisive comments from white trash it was blacks who were the worst…………….I have been assaulted a dozen times and my wife has been spit on by black men and had her hair extensions pulled out in a grocery store by black women…………our children face discrimination from both whites and blacks and there does not seem to be any middle ground. One day my daughter came home drying saying a black man accosted her on the street telling her to perform oral sex on him because that is all mixed girls are good for……unfortunately for him she could take care of herself and kicked him so hard his testicle burst……a permanent injury that left him impotent…..a school chum witnessed the scene and ran over to help, kicking the black man in the face and knocking out 7 teeth. What a way for children to have to behave because people can still not just accept each other for who they are as a person……we have ingrained the stereotypes so deeply we may never see the light at the end of the tunnel. Perhaps it is time we just said enough and started a new movement towards acceptance of each other. We have raised 4 exceptional children and are very proud of them and happy with our loving family but the sad thing is we live in a form or conditional isolation from friends and even relatives who show acceptance but as we all know that is just a mask……….sad and a shame because we have so much to offer one another in this life.
LikeLike
Ag, I think you were close to correct on this one. I am a thick BW with natural hair, a more “racially neutral” face, dark skin and have been often accused of “talking and acting white”
When I go out, only white or Asian men hit on me. Black men check me out and sometimes ask if I ever straighten my hair, as if that will make me more beautiful.
Contrarily, white men want to coil my hair on their fingers like some sort of bizarre involuntary reflex – strangers do it, their faces hazy and transfixed.
Even when I go out with my white female friends, I tend to get more attention from white men than they do.
I live in Alabama
LikeLike
@ William,
I am so sorry to hear of your struggle but let me offer you some hope. I am currently married to a white man and have three kids.
We have never experienced any hostility and neither have our children. I see interracial families and biracial children everywhere. The kids in my community really don’t think twice about dating outside their race.
Any negative experiences are usually nosy curiosity (black women often want to feel my children’s hair and then want to know how my husband and I met…as if I crossed the Berlin wall to meet him or something)
It seems things have changed a lot in 30 years and things will be even better in another 30, hopefully.
LikeLike
Jessica, a lot depends on where you live and on your income level. I happen to know that the world that you describe does exist, but I also realize that it doesn’t exist for everyone. There are still a lot of places around the country and around the planet that have a long way to go before they are transformed into your world.
LikeLike
Well here’s an interesting YouTube video on “Black Marriage Negotiations”. Not that I support this view, but I think it’s interesting that this sort of thing is going on.
LikeLike
The funny thing about that video is that I really don’t think it’s that “black specific”. I hear white guys making the same sort of complaints, too.
Most of the crap in this video is hyperbolic, but I do think that there’s a grain of truth to one thing in the view of gender relations it portrays. That is that women are now taught that they can take two paths in life – career or family – and even try to combine them. Meanwhile, men are supposed to be content with just one career path.
Men often resent the fact that they feel that women want them to “respect our independence” and yet simultaneously be there to “protect” or financially support them, if necessary. Meanwhile, a man who loses his job and needs financial support is probably going to be called a “weakling” or a “good for nothing”. It’s a simple fact that a man who loses his job and can’t immediately get another is very likely to lose his wife or girlfriend shortly thereafter.
LikeLike
Also, given some of the conversations on this topic here, I couldn’t help but chucckle at the following exchange:
W: “I’m a pew-jumpin’, Bible-thumpin’, tamborine-wavin’, non-fornicating Christian who believes in the Lord and follows everything in the Bible.”
M: “Oh, nice. The Bible says ‘Wives, submit to your husbands’.”
W: “I believe everything in the Bible except that part.”
I had to laugh at that, given a conversation I had with an evangelical christian student on Wednesday. According to her, the Bible is the absolute revealed truth, the literal word of God. When I brought up exactly that “wives submit to your husbands” bit, however, she fell all over herself to explain that that didn’t REALLY mean domination of men by women… etc. She had a very obtuse and convulted explanation as to why “submission” wasn’t really “domination”. At the end, I could only say “Well given that you’re allowed to come up with non-literal readings of the Bible when it has to do with your person, why are you so against homosexuals doing it too?”
LikeLike
Sooo, I have spent all afternoon on this thread, neglecting my homework for the simple fact I couldn’t pull myself from the screen. Im a rather voluptuous, more junk in the trunk than the rest of my body combined (no lie), fairly dark skinned girl. My mother was raised in a little town in Minnesota, and so, I never really learned “black” culture, and when I was younger I tended to be the brunt of several jokes amongst my darker peers about being “too white”. My mother moved away from the mostly African-American communities, and even then, it was mostly the African-American kids who made fun of me. As such I guess I never really felt like I fit in with my African-American peers, and most of my friends have been “white”. So it goes to pass that most of my relationships have been with “white guys”, one of which I am happily married to. In most of my encounters with white guys, including the man I am married to, I was the first black girl they had ever been with. Most were skinny, till the last couple years when I found that bigger guys tend to treat bigger girls better in general. My friends never really thought of me as “black” because of the way I act. Ive been called white by the whitest bikers, and my skin is nowhere near it. I really believe, in my heart, that most of the separation between WM and BW is due to the stigma that to be “black” you have to act outside of “white America’s” cultural norm. It has to do with culture, really, at the heart of it.
heres a funny tidbit:
I was an adult phone operator once, and mostly I played a skinny blond or brunette. The one time I get a call for a guy that wants an AA, he says Im totally faking it and hangs up on me….how is that for irony.
LikeLike
And my hubby says most women are like that……the one in the video….not just black ones……good women are hard to find……thats the truth….
LikeLike
So I had to comment on the black militant guy….LMAO. My mom is just like you, and she hates almost every guy I have ever been with. She has this idea that white people are all bad…well have you ever heard the joke, im not racist, I hate everyone equally? I know when I experience racism, I have enlightened many of my friends and partners to the subtleties of it. My friends aren’t exactly at the top of the social totem pole, so they understand that discriminating isnt about one race against another. If I remember correctly, African kings sold their people into slavery many times, and attained great riches because of it. You dont think that the children of those kings currently have their seat at the “massas table”? and they are screwing poor white folks poor black folks, middle class folks of all races. The only thing that propagating the division of us “little people” does is insure that we as a people, of all colors, remain slaves to the institution that is America in this global economy.
LikeLike
Bringing up class, NotSo! Tsk, tsk! Big no-no here. 😀
LikeLike
Not class really, my mom was in the medical field but never made it higher than tech. We were on welfare a couple of times even, we never really lived a middle class lifestyle, she always got in trouble for speaking her mind (I think the fact that she did sound intelligent and knew what she was talking about made it worse), and being rather brash when she did so, so she never really was able to have a lucrative career. We are like most not poor, not middle-class white single parent families, only we were black. So really if it was about class, I would still be ghetto. Its just the way I was raised. If anything, my class has kept me from dating black or white guys in a higher class. Just because I was raised to act “normal” doesnt mean I was raised in a higher class……….if that is even what you meant……..
LikeLike
Ok…so I asked my (Chinese) boyfriend to point out which women he found attractive from each group. Funny, he found more women in the first group attractive than in the second group. Not sure if this means anything special, but I did find it interesting.
LikeLike
Did you get dumped for a black girl, poor thing…Its okay, im sure there are plenty of men as ignorant as you that would love to made even less enlightened by your very presence.
LikeLike
@ King, I know.
I’m not living in Utopia. I lived in both Mobile, AL with my family and now Tampa, FL and I am as poor as they get. I have been unemployed for 7 months and recently filed divorce.
I was merely stating that there are pockets of the country where things are getting better.
LikeLike
“I was merely stating that there are pockets of the country where things are getting better.”
My observation is that this is true. And, of course, some things have been getting better across the board,at least compared to past decades. But it’s definitely a mixed bag of results.
LikeLike
when do we find out about white men that black women like? Or did I miss that post?
LikeLike
Thanks for the interesting posts guys, have been following your blog for the past several months while trying to lose weight for my wedding on the Cambridge diet plan and it’s going really great. I’m down about 25 lbs in the past couple of months and your website has really inspired me to keep trying. Great work.
LikeLike
I have gone to a private school my whole entire life and have been around white people my whole life. I have been called an “Oreo” my whole entire life. In addition to being a so-called “Oreo”, I have a lot of noticeable white features like think lips, thin nose, light complexion, and long hair. So according to my family, I am going to marry a White man, but from reading this article I don’t fit the criteria. So are you telling me that I white men would look at a dark skinned girl because she is the opposite of what the Media says is attractive?
LikeLike
@jasmine
you will marry whoever you love and they love you too.
LikeLike
I must be an exception to the rule then because I’m a white guy who feels extremely attracted to black women. I mean real black women, not the light skinned ones with white features. If I wanted that I would just be into white women instead. Its hard for me to communicate though because most black women seem to exclusively prefer black men.
LikeLike
@ jason,
I’m working on it! 😉
LikeLike
@ Natasha
cant wait, quite curious if it follows the mainstream….
LikeLike
I am a 50 year old white male who has been attracted to black females ever since the 5th grade and I’m attracted to the black woman as a person and not how skinny she is or how light skinned she is.I think it depends on your preference.For me personally,black women come in different shapes,sizes and shades and that’s what makes them so unique and appealing to me.I don’t care if she is full figured or thick or slim or whatever,it comes down to personality and attitude.I don’t go by what society or statistics say either.
LikeLike
It’s funny…I was talking to a buddy earlier today(Oct.29,2010)and he was talking about another boy of his whose girlfriend was so fine(his o-
pinion,not mine)and he mentioned her backside,to which I screamed
“I don’t care about some broad’s a**,I’m interested in what on her head
(EXTRA long braids or a Giant ‘Fro),and what’s in her bra[34C-42D,gals!],NOT what’s in her jeans.(Especially given so many chicks’
disgustingly fat a**es today!!!)I guess I belie the stereotype of black men’s LOVING black women with HUMONGOUS BUTTS!!!
LikeLike
Why was this ridiculous article written? I find the comments more concrete than the article itself. How dare you said “these are the types of black women that white men would date” and begin to list famous black women! You do not know the personal lives of these women and they’re behavior; therefore you cannot make such a claim.
Based on this article, I believe the author has mental issues.
God bless you all.
LikeLike
Wow. This thread sure has sparked a lot of interest over the past 2 yrs. I think it is because if women in general have been handed a lot of crap by society about what being attractive means, this is doubly so for BW! After all, BM intermarry with WW at a much higher rate than WM intermarry with BW (although the numbers are growing). Back in the day, it seemed that certain BM would choose a less attractive WW, even a very overweight one, over a more beautiful BW, a fact which many BW found to be insulting. Now days, I see more mixed couples where both parties are equally attractive (or unattractive).
However, I agree that WM are still much more selective with the BW they choose as wives or girlfriends. However, there is at least one observation the author left out: If the WM is an accomplished man, he usually wants an accomplished BW. For example, a college-educated WM would probably date a dumb blonde type WW, but usually not an ignorant ‘hood rat type BW. He would marry that educated BW if she is attractive, slender, well-spoken, etc. I know this because I don’t know how many times I was approached by white men in my single days (I’m now married to a BM, btw). The WM ones who weren’t brave enough to ask me out would still pay me wonderful compliments. I recall one who was like, “You are so pretty. Your skin, your hair, everything.”
I disagree big time, though about Phylicia Rashad being on the list of BW that WM would not date. Mrs. Clair Huxtable from the Cosby show? Are U kidding? In the Cosby Show heyday, I’m sure she got fan mail from BM, WM, Asian men, Latinos, and all mixtures in between. If I got flirty compliments from WM on my skin and hair (which aren’t nearly as lovely as hers), they still go nuts for her to this day. (She is still gorgeous. She’s in Tyler Perry’s new movie “For Colored Girls” coming out this month).
LikeLike
Phylicia Rashad was, and probably still is, a hottie. Says this white guy.
LikeLike
First, what’s the guys name on the right? I look just like him[even the hair], and I thought I never looked like anyone. I really need to know. I even have that tie.
@Original Article:”White American men seem to go for certain kinds of black women and not for others.”
In Africa it’s the same way… with the East-African look being seen as “more beautiful”. It has to do with developmental psychology, as babies are shown to be more inclined to “light” than “dark”[of every race]. Even in Hinduism, without any ‘White’ interference, the brides ‘whiten’ there faces to be more ‘attractive/fair’. Sorry, even without racism, some element of this would still happen. This was also done in non-indian asian cultures for various reasons.
An example of this happening with whites, is Lily Cole [so hot]. Most of my friends and polls think she’s ugly because of the upper rounded area of her face, which would be in line with some west-african women. I believe part of this has to do with bone-structure, part, not all. On the flipside, Christina Hendricks from Mad-Men is always voted one of the hottest women alive, even though she has curves[the face isn’t rounded on the upper cheek areas]. I could be wrong on this one, just an observation.
@africanblackmilitant
A.] You’re just as bad as any other racist who puts beliefs above objectivity.
B.] When I was in high school, the population spectrum was as follows: 84% African-American, 5% African[FROM Africa], 5% White, and 6% Latino/Other.
I took a double load so I could get A+ and Net+ certified[and college credit] at the tech school while still taking honors classes at the HS. I ended up winning regionals[SkillsUSA] in IT Computing. I ended up in Virginia Beach for states. The only other people to win regionals were for cosmetology, and were all African or African-American. Needless to say I ended up hanging out with all black girls for a few days, and VA Beach has a strip as the only hangout area. I was walking with five black girls, hanging out, etc [all older].
I would get heckled and screamed at and threatened, every other arcade, every other club, every other shop… by black men and teens[I was only sixteen]. Not one white person, not one asian, not one latino, said anything. I believe a car full of black women did shout ‘you go white boy’. But, even with some support I’d never seen such racism in my life. Ever. Some of them even had blonde girlfriends and were saying such things in front of them.
Needless to say one of the African girls said “stupid Americans” and kissed me on the cheek[to make them angry?]. The act showed me how hypocritical some of the American ‘black culture’ elements are. I wasn’t holding them, no hands touching, nothing. I wasn’t even attracted to them.
I felt alien enough just going to class, and it took a non-American to show me what America should be about. So please stop spreading such lies about how white’s ‘created’ racism. I witnessed first hand the other side, unintentionally.
LikeLike
Racism is everywhere, in every continent. I dated a biracial girl (nigerian father/finnish mother), and she told me that for instance, somalians call nigerians wide-noses, and are generally frowned upon. She had two kids with a somalian guy and had only been dating black (african) guys before me. She had a lot of culture-based problems with her ex: she was (culturally) 100% liberated, independent, finnish-speaking nordic woman, he was african from very patriarchal, conservative culture, spoke somalian and broken english. She was a protestant (lutheran), he was a muslim… So, she found it much more relaxed and eased at dating me, since we shared common culture, language and values. Her ex also dissed finnish people and culture all the time. No wonder he didn’t fit in.
Part of this is off-topic, but I hope some of you find this even slightly informative.
Cheers,
LikeLike
very informative hannulip. 🙂
i think culture has a lot to do with it as well.
LikeLike
Thanks. In Finland racism takes slightly different forms. It’s not so much about the skin of one’s color, but one’s nationality. Black americans are much more well received. They’re considered americans first, black second. Whereas somalians are at the bottom of the totem pole, mainly because they were the first african refugees to come to Finland. Timing was very unfortunate, when they came in the early 90’s, Finland was in recession and a lot of people were pissed of that they were heavily financially supported.
My friends and family, however, welcomed my “ethnic” girlfriend with open arms, because I don’t hang around with bigots.
LikeLike
@LogicZero
Interesting story.
Well, of all the places I have been no one seems to notice my interracial dating with asian guys. Or maybe I just don’t care? Not so sure.
LikeLike
Actually, I kind of take the top comment back. My bf says guys look at me a lot (i just really do not notice). And once a black lady told us we make a cute couple. Another time an older black gentleman told my bf to marry me bc I was beautiful. (I had no makeup on that day and wearing my hair natural and curly frizzy poof…that made me feel very nice inside! :D)
LikeLike
Never got any negative comments or looks from anybody when I was dating that biracial girl. Might have to do something with the fact that i’m pretty big, 6 feet 1 inch, athletic, bald guy with some piercings in my face, lol! And I don’t care what other people think anyways.
We did look quite interesting tho: a biracial green-eyed woman with two black kids, a big, blue-eyed bald finnish guy with my long-haired blond blue-eyed son :-D. A wide spectrum indeed!
LikeLike
I have green eyes too. XD
and my bf is skinny and looks harmless. maybe we look too harmless to mess with? either way, i’m glad i’ve never been bothered. but i find the stories of people having ir issues to be interesting bc it’s something i’ve never dealt with.
LikeLike
First, what’s the guys name on the right? I look just like him[even the hair], and I thought I never looked like anyone. I really need to know. I even have that tie.
That’s Sam”s cousin, also from Finland. Sam is another poster here. Maybe he’s your long lost cousin! Fancy that!
LikeLike
Oo, finns are überalles!
LikeLike
When my (then) girlfriend visited me ( I live in a small town) she did get a lot of looks in a grocery store, but none of the looks were hostile, only surprised and very curious. We both agreed on that. It was only because minorities are non-existing here. We have mainly turks, probably kurds running pizzerias/kebab bars. There were somalis in the early 90’s, but I suppose they all moved to bigger cities like Helsinki, the capitol, to be among their own kind.
I personally like to see more “color” on the streets. The world is uniting, and it’s a beautiful thing.
LikeLike
I feel like I need to explain my recent activity on this board…I’m a freelance illustrator/graphic designer, so I just happen to have some free time right now…
Anyways, I think I originally started being attracted to black women ( but not exclusively) was because of MTV and especially house music. Back in the day -late 80’s/early 90’s, me and my friends saw a lot of music videos on MTV with a black woman as the vocal lead. “Pump up the Jam, Ride On Time” etc…
And we thought those women were GORGEOUS! Singing high and loud with a beat your feet couldn’t resist. And those women were proud and beautiful, not like today’s video vixens, who just shaking their asses to be noticed. I can’t understand those attention-whores of today, who sacrifice their dignity for less than 15 minutes of fame. And it’s spreading to Finland as well. When they’re having a rap-contest, there are finnish and mixed girls shaking their booties, begging for attention. I don’t understand that. No woman who respects herself should be objected to being just a lump of gluteus maximus.
This from a guy who likes voluptuous women, by the way.
LikeLike
Hannu, I don’t think you have to explain making comments. Everyone does it.
LikeLike
It’s funny, I’m mixed (black and white) and I always compare myself to my best friend who is Hatian. She has a thin frame, is doe-eyed and full-lipped and her hair is in it’s natural state. I on the other hand look Latin and I have a fuller build. But even though we both have lovely personalities, I say that because of how she looks, she’s the kind of pretty that guys will take home to mom and I’m the kind of pretty that guys temporarily enjoy.
LikeLike
I don’t know if it really matters about race so much really until you try to point it out.. really who cares if a man or woman is white or black? How long will it take for people to realize we are all human and color mostly came from the regions our ancestors started from. I don’t know what do I know I’m just a 21 yr old ebony woman that dances through college
LikeLike
I agree Jazzikandi.
I did work my way and dated a black girl. I am a white male and we’re both europeans from different countries… so am not sure if she’s mixed or not, I didn’t ask. There so many kind black woman world wide.
All I can say is it was hella cool. So I’m confused now because am not sure yet what’s up with racism. Actually I can’t see myself dating anything but black woman at the moment oO. Thus, there’s attractive and unattractive people regardless “race”.
LikeLike
@ atticus
Either way, there are far fewer Black women seeking White men then there are Black men chasing White women…
and how may of them are “making distinctions” between those who are interested in having a Mandingo sexual experience, and those who are interested in matrimony?
LikeLike
King says,
@ atticus
Either way, there are far fewer Black women seeking White men then there are Black men chasing White women…
and how may of them are “making distinctions” between those who are interested in having a Mandingo sexual experience, and those who are interested in matrimony?
laromana says,
King, thanks for making this important point.
ANTI-BW RACISM has historically been a MAJOR factor in how BW are viewed/treated by men of ALL RACES in America. It’s IMPOSSIBLE to KNOW FOR SURE WHY an American WM who is attracted to a BW may decide NOT to SERIOUSLY date/marry her (MOST European men don’t have this problem).
The American WM may either be an ANTI-BW RACIST who thinks BW are NOT “good enough” to SERIOUSLY date/marry or he may be an ANTI-BW COWARD who is “afraid of a loss of status” if he SERIOUSLY dates and/or marries a BW.
Either way ANTI-BW RACISM in America is NOT BW’s fault.
We didn’t INVENT this MADNESS but MANY of our relationship lives are UNFAIRLY affected by it.
LikeLike
LOL dude isn’t Sade married to a white man?
I have a lot of white male friends, and have dated many white men personally, i’m also mixed. I’ve found that white men who date black women do it for various reasons, as well as, have various types of women they prefer. You have those infatuated by the “exotic” features and beauty of darker skin, curvacious ample bodies, others who like half in half Vanessa williams, alicia key types , just enough of a blend to look unique yet still have features and characteristics found in white anglo women. Then there are those stepping out of their comfort zones sampling a bit of every “flavor” as they like to refer to as. Oh, and lets not forget the ones who eventually became turned off by white women, and/or asians, relocating to a greater metropolis area and who’s tastes have changed dramatically to desiring the “strong willed, defiant, brazen black woman motif, with abundant work ethic, opposite from the privileged, superficial, materialistic, ditz white girl stereotype .. Eventually after the honeymoon phase is over, and the fantasy is replaced with the actual person, the relationships either folds, or continue to move forward depending. Just a suggestion but you might want to broaden your arrangement .
Skin tone, hair, body type, style and yes personality dictates the level of appeal to white men, it depends on the guy and what he’s looking for in certain women.
LikeLike
I’d like to say once again that even though I prefer BW, I still go for the personality and intellect. Looks wake up the interest, but it’s the personality what makes it last.
I’m still not quite able to explain, why I’m attracted to BW and frankly, I don’t think I need to.
And yet I’m here trying to explain. 😉
LikeLike
This whole post is silly.
I like individuals. And so do you. Dont lie to yourself and say you only like one race lol. Think about it.
LikeLike
Yes, yes I do.
But since there seems to be black women, who think that they are not attractive and/or not wanted by WM, I just want to give them my support. I think this kind of discussions are needed.
Of course beauty is not limited to any race, I still find caucasian brunettes and blondes attractive as well, I just notice BW more. Dunno why.
LikeLike
I prefer dark skinned women always have always will nothing i can do about that even though i love Halle berry, sade but not beyonce, kelly rowlands and michelle oooh yes please, angela bassett mmm, bria myles damn but Alex Welk oooh she drives me crazy. hey l also love sharon stone, Hilary Clinton(!) and Ann Wintour (gets me hot) as well as the sexy Kim Cattrell. Asian women I have always been mad for Hiromi Inoue a japanese actress/model. I love women what ever colour but I must admit my preference is always for women of a darker hue as they are truly beautiful and you know what it just looks right when we are both both lay naked in bed together!!!
LikeLike
Hmmm what to say ? Well for starters wg over 40 who loves black women from 21 to 91. Basic aspects brains eyes health. Now in regards to brains, I am not referring to book knowledge I am referring to intelligence in general. I am also interested in ow you apply it to your life. Eyes I don’t care what race color creed you have you could hate me and your eyes can still attract me. Health if you don’t care enough about yourself to attempt to be as healthy as you can or take care of issues you have. Why should give 2 hoots for you? Socially it is getting better for wm to date bw. When I was in high school I got my first taste of bigotry. I fell for a beautiful black girl at my school. We started dating at school Then I had an opportunity to bring her to my house. Well let me tell you what. I to this day feel bad about how my family with the exception of my mom treated this girl. she never spoke to me after that day. I must say I can’t blame her. That experience has not stopped me from dating black women, but when it came time to get married and start a family. I was not going o put another girl through that no matter how much I loved her. There have been a few that I would have loved to be with for the next 200 years. I don’t feel that it would be fair to them to put them in a situation that they would be unfairly treated. Now 1 thing I have to say before I go ABM you may be the most attractive, but are you the best choice I would say not always and if every black man out there was straight and available are we to expect the rest of the women in the world to go with out a man? By the way it would be logistically impossible for the black males of the world to service(for lack of a better term) all the women in the world.
LikeLike
I think black men dont like to “eat at the Y” the way white guys do (thats what the ones I been with tell me 🙂 ). this is why imo many black women go for white guys.
LikeLike
I’m starting to feel really creepy about this blog.
LikeLike
In my neighborhood it’s the opposite (Encino California) I see more dark brown complexioned females with caucasion males and there are alot of mixed kids here it’s a norm.
LikeLike
I am a dark skinned black woman dating a danish man. I am 5.5 tall and a size 8 with a bountiful booty but small breasts. My man always says im the best thing that happened to him …i would not consider myself extremely beautiful but he loves me and i love him too..he just swept me off my feet and he by the way has never dated outside his race and this was a first for both of us..yes it just happened.I think all in all its the personality that counts … all peaple from all races should date each other if they like.
LikeLike
What is “eating at the Y”? Oral sex?
Well, I’m against strictly demanding reciprocity in a relationship, but when it comes to this: you scratch my back, and I’ll scratch yours! (Now replace “scratch” and “back” with more appropriate terms :D)
LikeLike
White male who loves black . You are close on every thing u said. Me, I like very black women, first off the big dark brown eyes, which for me makes a lot of black women attractive to me , even the average or below average looking black female. Their black skin, thick natural hair,their profile, cute foreheads,flat noses that lead into a beautiful jaw line, full lips . O.M.G.
LikeLike
I only date black women and usually prefer darker girls with “African features”. I like bubble butts and natural “corkscrew curl” hair. Also, I prefer educated bw who speak proper English.
LikeLike
Well I’m only 14. But I have such an intrest in white guys<3
They seem to like me too for my mind a lot though,that and my boobs,[ohh yeah! and my smile]
I'm Crayola Brown(: 5'6 1/2 144lbs curvy D46boobs and an o.k butt. I have a star mentality,my mindset is hollywood and broadway. The fact that I'm a go getter really turns white guys on to me. I'm very diverse when it comes to popular culture. Every since I was little i've been into white guys my 1st kiss was white! White guys are just so hot to me,of all ages. It's natural preference,there r no biracial kids in my family,not many pple date outside the race unless it's an Asian. ❤
LikeLike
I just celebrated my 19th Anniversary with my wife (a beautiful black woman) and just let me say she is my greatest blessing, so good luck to all those out there who are willing to color outside the lines.
LikeLike
I really started to get interested in black women after a couple of bad experiences with white girls. A co-worker showed serious interest me and she was the first black girls I dated and was intimate with. That was about 15 years ago. Since…I have dated about 3/4 black and 1/4 white. I have always been athletic so…for me it is about being in shape. To me, there is nothing more attractive than a black woman, dark or light who takes care of herself and is athletic. I am open to different hair as well. Narrow hips, small firm butt, and any size chest is perfect for me as far as looks. Obviously we have to be compatible to be a couple… This is about looks…so my current girlfriend looks like Heather Headley if she was a hardbody. We rock each others world. I have never been more attracted to anyone…
LikeLike
I am a BW. When I was younger I could not see myself dating a WM. But I am more mature now, and I am willing to date a WM despite what society may think. However, sometimes it can be difficult to tell whether a WM is interested in me, unless they’re very straightforward. There style, swagger, game, or whatever you want to call it can be harder for BW to pick up on. And yes, I do think that it is because some WM may be too intimidated to approach me [and vice versa]. I think that a lot of BW will not pursue a WM because they will be embarrassed of what people may think [family, friends etc]. It’s easier for BM to handle the criticisms of interracial relationships. I see A LOT of black men with white woman.
For those of you who said that WM only like light skinned BW……I always thought they preferred darker BW, and ONE reason being because they would want their children to have a natural tan look [Mallato], since ALOT white people are obsessed with tanning.[I know, bad assumption…lol].
LikeLike
I get a lot of white men attracted to me. Not too many of them like the Paris Hilton-type girls. White men do like curvy women. For some reason, most black men don’t find me attractive. But it doesn’t matter to me. My boyfriends have been white, latino, and asian. Actucally, I’m in a jam because a lot of guys like me, but not sure which one to be my boyfriend.
LikeLike
@msjonez: ask the guy for a cup of coffé or something like that. If things move on, well done, but if they don’t, well, all you guys did was have a cup of coffé together.
I can not speak of other white guys, but I say this: I never understand the rules in this “dating game”, never did and never will. So if you are interested of some white guy, or any guy, go to talk to him! Maybe he does not even know you are interested?
And who cares what anybody else thinks? They think what ever they think, so what? What kind of family is that if they do not want you to be happy? They should support you in your pursuit of happiness.
And the skin color? I does not matter at all. When we white boys look black women, we see women. They might be black as black or what ever hue of golden brown, it really does not matter. We love them all. And I know for a fact, that many white guys think that black women are beautiful. Granted, they may not say it out loud for what ever reason, but deep inside they think so. You’d be surprised about how many of us think so!
And then “what if”…
What if I ask him out and he says no? What if I talk to her and she says No? Well, I’ve told this before but I tell it again, if abagond allows it: The best woman I ever met was a very dark black american woman. She was everything I ever wanted from a woman: bright, smart, funny, intelligent, so hot she could melt down car tyres across the street. She was beautiful. And I asked her out. And she said: No.
Was it bad? Well, no worse than getting yourself under a steamroller. 😀 But the thing is: I survived. You will too. It won’t kill you. But you get it out. You cross the race barrier. You cross that barrier between men and women. You are bringing down the walls and borders between people.
When others see you make a move over the race barrier, they might learn something. They might understand: this is not about blacks and whites. This is about men and women. People.
@usagi; auch! Try to get one before they go for war over you!! 😀
LikeLike
first of all bravo for such an interesting blog abagond.
i’m a black british girl of african decent. since describing oneself seems to be the norm here, i’ll go ahead – im 5’5″, medium brown coloured with relaxed hair and i’m considered attractive. when i was younger i was mainly around wht ppl because of my music tastes – and for that reason i tended to see date wht guys, naturally. later i went to a predominantly blk school where i started to date blk guys, naturally. it was interesting because after that experience i only noticed blk guys on the street. it was rare for me to see notice wht guys as being handsome on a normal day.
i’m not sure how much this has to do with the fact that blk men are so pro-active with getting a girl’s attention, anywhere and everywhere. as an attractive (or maybe even less-than-attractive) blk woman you are used to getting called on the street by blk men – i hate this practice as it makes me feel very self-conscious whenever i pass blk men as i know the chances of them saying something is quite high. it’s very intimidating as a woman and i noticed that i would dress down just so i didn;t encourage these cat-calls even furthur – how sad.
anyway i have moved to another country for a few months and have been getting to know a lot of other foreigners..99% of them are white and a large proprtion are european. i have had a few ‘encounters’ with scandanavian men especially and have now all of a sudden started to notice wht guys again. isn’t is strange how environments can make you change your perception?
now onto the fetish and marrying argument – some wht guys are carried away by anything that is exotic to them of course. these guys can be divided into two types. 1. is the type where they see these exotic women as merely play-things and most likely see all women as sexual creatures for their own entertainment
2. just, for whatever reason, like the look of these ‘exotic’ women but still hold her character as importsnt, or even moreso, than her looks.
i’m interested in the social aspect of being involved with, and marrying wht men. there is no denying that wht men on the whole are far more succesful in financial terms than blk men worldwide. they have a bigger middle class demographic, and just as importantly have a middle class FAMILY, often core and extended. this is a great metwork to be a part of.
i come from a family with great values instilled in us and our parents expect us to excel in our chosen fields. god-willing my children will have great uncles and aunts to look up to on my side and i expect the same from my husband’s side too.
with that being said, you can’t help who you fall for..although i have to admit his status, job and income is very important to me. this train of thought seems to lend itself to marrying into a wht family.
my tastes and interests are not all that common with blk men either. i like culture, the alternative, travelling, politics, the arts etc..and many blk men seem to want to conform to some sort of black code that says ‘you must not be an indivual and think outside of the box’.
this is not blk man bashing at all. i like blk men very much – one of my exes was one of the best ppl i’ll ever know in my life. he was blk but his lack of ambition meant that i couldn;t continue with the relationship. which is a social problem with a lot of blk people in general.
i could marry any colour but he must have an open mind to new experiences, come from a good family and want to be a provider. i like intelligence and i want to pass those genes on. as a last note, if you’re attractive, then you’re attractive. i’m certainly not everyone’s cup of tea but i have never been insecure about attracting men – whatever colour
LikeLike
and abagond can you pls remove my picture from the avatar? it seems to have been pulled from my blog when i commented and i would like to remain anonymous on this blog – thanks
LikeLike
Abagail:
I cannot change your avatar, only you can:
http://en.gravatar.com/
It may take a few hours to take effect.
LikeLike
“@usagi; auch! Try to get one before they go for war over you!!”
I know, but I bad at romanics. I’m very shy because I’m used to being chased. I was very overweight and I didn’t make a good-looking fat girl. It’s kinda confusing because when I’m around other blacks, they usually treat as weird or strange.Most Black Americans don’t consider “black” and most black men to do come to me view as exotic. Why don’t BA consider Horners black ?
LikeLike
Very well put! I gained an tremendous amout of insight!
LikeLike
As long as the woman is fit and natural i like them, (im a non black male) so a great girl would be, atleast according to me is a NATURAL woman, for example i dont like fake tits, i dont like fake hair(I dont know what black women do to their hair but id much rather go back in time when black women were into afros),
this means they have to be fit(its a sad fact but most black women i run into are quite out of shape, theyre not fit)
and they have to be natural, thats just what is attractive, atleast to me…so when i think of a good looking black girl i think of african girls, not african american girls, because black women in africa are fit, and theyre 100% natural they just leave their hair as it is etc etc etc
in conclusion natural = attractive (this includes make up etc)
unnatural = unattractive
LikeLike
I must say that as a black women who is darker skinned, I see what you are talking about in how white men are paired with black women. I must say that as I read I feel like I don’t have a chance of finding anyone, because if black men like light skin and long hair or white men like dark skin, natural hair and thin, I will be alone.
LikeLike
@ Slynette
You’re reading way too much into this. I have avery dark-skinned friend who works in my office, and her cubicle is like a bus depot for the guys constantly dropping by.
No observation about any group is going to dramatically effect you on an individual level. Individual guys like many different things, and many of us like it all!
LikeLike
yeah, slynette. look for guys who are not posers and you’ll find out that normal guys like a woman who is ok with herself.
hairstyle or any of that does not matter as long as you are who you are.
LikeLike
Regardless of looks, white men are attracted to black women who share their racist view of the world. Mention subjects like reparations, police profiling, bias in hiring, or neighborhood gentrification and the white man will go running in the direction of a black women who is either unfamiliar with these terms or too uncaring to discuss them.
As a African man who loves his women, I am generally unattracted to the kinds of women white men are attracted too, I only wish more sisters would wise up and understand that if white men are attracted to you, its more of an insult than anything else.
LikeLike
This may sound mean but I think most men are like Super. Most men want a woman who is either thin or curvy, not very big. That is not to say that there are not men who like a big and beautiful woman, but I don’t think there are enough men who like big women to go around. So I do think that women should watch their weight.
LikeLike
Really, I never been attract to black men. I don’t believe that one is better than the other. You will go through the same problems with every race/nationality. The media like to exaggrate the problems in black relationships. I have have friends of all colors, but I few black friends. It’s not because I don’t want to it. I don’t have alot in common with black culture. White, Latino, and Asian people find me very attractive. I have a flatt pancake butt, aurburn 3/c hair ,and red skin. Most black men aren’t trying to talk to me because I don’t fit the beauty stanard. Where doesn’t purple lips come for ? I’ve had since I was a baby. People say it’s weird and thinks it’s lipstick. Everyone’s different. Could someone answer that question about the dark lips. I don’t know where that comes from. I hope someone can answer it!
LikeLike
@Usagi
Baby, there is nothing wrong with dark lips. People use lipstick to color their lips all the time. !! You are probably a very beautiful girl. When I was young I had alot of insecurities. But when I look at old photos of myself, I realize I was very attractive. Other people saw it but I couldn’t see it. Don’t worry about what other peoplle think Just love yourself and know that you are very beautiful !!!!!.
LikeLike
blfreek – don’t try and scaremonger blk women into not dating anything but black. maybe some blk women aren’t ready to cry racism about everything and like to face the realities of life and certain communities. blk power is about mking the best of your life, not about blaming the ‘evil white man’ for everything
LikeLike
I’ve read this article a couple years ago and amazed on how long its been alive. First, I will acknowledge and give kudos to the writer, Abagond for his aptitude in writing on such complex and diverse subjects, such as this subject. I am a 32 year old medium to darkskin black woman who is 5’1 and weigh 115 pounds. I am considered “small”, but I have been told by all races that I have a nice rear. I also have natural hair that is about armpit length when I choose to straighten it. My features, well – I am told I do not look my age and that my features are more sharp or “mousy” than broad.
I say all this to say, I can see how the writer has generalizations based on what he see, because I am married to a White man and I fit the first category. In fact, I dated many white men whom found “my type” to be attractive.
However, being married to a white man and being exposed to other races, I can say that White men are more open to diversity than any other race of men. From my perspective, White men love any race of women of any shade that has a “pretty face” and “nice body” AND education.
BUT, I would love for Abagond to post and write on what Black women that Black men marry and like. From my experience, you will not see the same in diversity. I think since the writer is Black that his focus could be more on Black issues and less on what White men think. Since Black women and men seem to have this extreme division. Atleast in my humble opinion.
I think Black men are more conservative in what they are attracted to. For instance, many will openly state they do not date brown or darkskin. Well actually they will say they ONLY date lightskin Black women with long straight hair or anything that is “mixed” looking in race. IMO, that topic would be WAY more deep than what White men like in a Black woman. Also the list on who White America find to be the most attractive Black woman, I feel that many Black men would choose these women and the women the writer chose e.g. Jill Scott White men would choose.
Also, WW – that I know do find lighter skin Black women to be more attractive. So this maybe why Alicia Keys and Halle Berry are place on the White America’s listing.
Just my humble opinion.
LikeLike
Wow people are still commenting on this post! Amazing!
I just needed to say that I AM TIRED of people saying “African features.” I don’t know what THE FUCK that means, but please stop throwing around the term as if it’s actually something. Say what you MEAN. Literally.
African? I didn’t know all people from Africa has the same features! Even white South Africans? Are you trying to say “exotic”?! Please do, because at least you’ll expose yourself as racist.
You are insulting the people of my country, and the 53 other countries in Africa. It’s amazing how completely rude/ignorant non-Africans can be towards African people.
LikeLike
Marvellously said ET…
@blkfreek man please, I can’t stand ignorant man like you, it is alright for a black men to marry women from other races and on top of that they even more picky in their own race preferring light or mix-race skin to dark skin and you have the nerve to say that “… I am generally unattracted to the kinds of women white men are attracted too…” for me any women black or not must be out of their mind to even consider dating someone like you and and if they do they must be sharing your racist view of the world as you’ve said it so well about black women who are attracted to white men.
Well, for my part I am more attracted to WM as they approach me more than black men especially during my teenage years I was invisible to them( I don’t know maybe I too tall for my age and too slim for them, have a dark brown skin and always wear my hair naturally and still are at 24 years old). My boyfriend is a European WM and was raised in a family where they taught him that every human being are equal as we have been all created by God and are all his children regarding of race, sex and religion.
Believe me it’s not that I am living in a place where WM are the majority, you’ll find as much more WM as BM and AM. I am more attracted to WM and there is no explanation to that, it just my preference and I noticed that WM are more open to diversity than other race of men and will love you just the way you are with no superficial beauty while many but not all BM will want you to have a sort of complexion, hair and body shape. And please, don’t tell me they are just attracted because I am black or they have some kind of fetish (God, I hate this word) I can see they are sincere and that they are attracted to the human being, the woman and the personality and not the race or the stereotype.
And to everyone from all races who hate or are against IR relationship please come out from whatever century you are stuck in this is the 21st century and you need to learn to deal with it. And to those who are in an IR relationship or are interest in it you should know that there’s racism everywhere and strong at some part of the world than other but don’t let it destroy your happiness because there will always be people refusing to accept it but as long as you love and trust each other you will overcome everything and earn admiration and respect from everyone even those who were against you even if they will never admit it to you.
and @blkfreek I wish more BM would wise up and understand that BW are not their properties and that they can be attracted or prefer other races of men then their own, and you’re saying that “…if white men are attracted to BW, its more of an insult than anything else.” you are just showing how racist, ignorant and mean person you are.
LikeLike
Any white man who wouldn’t consider bringing home any of the women mentioned in the beginning of this post is blind, deaf and stupid. They are all incredibly attractive women.
LikeLike
I think the women in group 2 are much more beautiful.. All the black women I have been attracted to are dark skinned, to me they are much more exotic and appealing. Seriously if black women want to date a white guy just interact with them for 5 minutes. If they give you attention and are focused on you and smile alot they are interested. Most just want a down to earth women who doesn’t have this princess spoil me I do what I want attitude. Most black women I interacted with are down to earth and very cool, I would certainly bring her home to meet my parents if she was interested…..
LikeLike
I am a British BW who ‘happened’ upon this site and felt compelled to read having seen what the blog authors thoughts were on the type of Black Women that White Men might find attractive were. Firstly, all of the women listed were IMO beautiful and distinct in some way whatever their shade or features. Essentially, if you are a man who loves women then you wouldn’t be on the look out to distinguish which ‘kinds’ appeal to you or not!!!!! Whilst I appreciate why you would love BW I do wish that it would be less (if at all) as is frequently listed on this page about ‘the shape and figure’ of the said female as to me this is kind of superficial and suggests that you are merely caught up in some erotic fantasy (which again is unsurprising LOL) but that there is no interest in this woman, who happens to be Black, as a woman.
I am uncomfortable with WM who state that they love black women and only pursue black women as in my experience, these guys fall in love with the ‘ideaology’ of having a black mate – for some it enhances their profile/masculinity/street cred, I have dated (and quickly ditched) this type of mate in the past (made the mistake once – I learned fast) but they do not have the core and essential things that I expect in a partner. I recall one guy in particular who fancied my friend, making reference to another friend looking like Whoopi and that as far as he was concerned, she wouldn’t make the grade cos she was too damn ugly! I was furious and yes, perhaps it was because he was a WM making those sweeping comments about a black female but, the thing is I wouldn’t look at him twice, puny little wretch that he was. Cos he was fortunate enough to have dated some attractive women of colour he really thought he was ‘all that’ and started to become disparaging about certain kinds of BW. He talked what I guess was his version of ‘black’ and hung around with black guys and knew (or so he felt) everything there was to know about being black! I have seen him around recently and whilst he has been blessed with 2 beautiful mixed children, his partner (who was mixed race) was running around behind his back with BM and settled with one of them eventually. His new partner (another BW) is attractive IMO but I strongly suspect for him, it will be a step down as she is not ‘eyecatching’ in the way his previous mates were but I will say he is fortunate cos if I though little of his looks before, he has gone way downhill and is even more scrawny (and balding to boot).
The experiences with this type of WM remind me of the first types of damaging and detrimental interracial relationships I witnessed growing up – WW who dated BM and when the chips were down the first thing they did was cuss that black man out about his race. Before I get besieged by angry emails, not ALL of the examples I saw were negative but of the ones that were positive there was a fundamental difference – that the WW embraced their partners cultural heritage and difference and it was portrayed in the home in such a way that any children from the relationship had a real knowledge of their cultural identity. For those growing up in the former households I mentioned, mixed race definitely meant mixed up and left an indelible imprint in this children of colour as they matured into adulthood again in my experience!!!!
In the early ‘getting to know you’ stages of my relationship with my husband I asked him which kind of women he found attractive. His response was ‘I dunno, I just love women – all women’ I used to do my ‘test’ and ask him about different celebrities both black and white and he would like some from both sets. I laugh now cos I used to find it frustrating that I couldn’t pin down his type but as things grew between us, I realised it was a refreshing change. This man liked me for me, he grew to adore me then love me (sound bigheaded don’t I LOL) and he wanted to know all about me and who I was and where I came from as this is the essence of me and in doing so he began to learn and appreciate my particularly cultural history and to embrace it.
Meanwhile I cant speak for other European isle but in my experience Irish men like black women (I’ve been to both North and South and had my fair share of flirtations LOL).
LikeLike
Demerera
I do agree with much of what you said. But, of course, I would also balance it out by saying that there are a LOT of Black guys who would run down the list of bulging body parts they like on a woman, and might also use Whoopi as everything that they didn’t like. There are plenty of brothas who “fall in love” with a Black sexual fantasy too, but it’s excusable in their case, because they are Black.
Given the history, I understand why there’s a difference, but I’m just saying.
LikeLike
“Meanwhile I cant speak for other European isle but in my experience Irish men like black women (I’ve been to both North and South and had my fair share of flirtations LOL).”
That’s true! My first boyfriend was Irish/Finnish. In my experince, I never really had a hard time attracting WM. I think culture sometimes is more important than color. I have more in common culture-wise with some whites than blacks. It depends. I couldn’t go out with a WM or non-black man that was too urban/ghetto/southern/country. It’s understandable that people would veiw me as extoic because reddish skin with almost black lips is different to alot of people. It took me a while to understand that pinks/red lips or dark lips on a dark person is normal.
LikeLike
So after reading this huge blog, I was expecting to be more clear and happy and have my ego boosted a little but I’m not anymore. So I am a mixed girl, my dad is European, Danish, and my mother is African American. I basically look like I have a very golden tan. I have medium lips and a normal nose and natually long light brown curly hair. I grew up in Denmark with my father and was always considered beautiful. Then I moved to America and at first I was okay but then I started realizing that only black guys hit on me. I lived in Denmark for so long that I just grew to be more attracted to white men. I love everyone though, I have dated black white Asian, but mostly white. I live in rural Georgia and all the kids in my school are white. All the guys say,” you are sooo gorgeous but your half black….. I would date you if you weren’t half black”. If I’m so freaking gorgeous why not date me?? I haven’t had a boyfriend in 2 1/2 years bc of this. I’m ego has gone done soo far. I mean, some of the hot guys who say I’m hot but I’m half black, they turn me down for very tan white girls who sometimes are the same color as me!?!? WTF idk. I just am feeling like I’ll never meet anyone…….
LikeLike
To Imani: Get out of the South, Babygirl! Move to California!
LikeLike
The RURAL South!!
Yeah in San Francisco, Los Angeles, or San Diego, you could date the entire UN.
LikeLike
@imani: you’ll find someone when you go out of that enviroment. Sounds like the racial barriers have not come down there yet, but they will. It is happening all over the world. The future of the mankind is that way and no one can stop it. Why? Just look at the numbers.
LikeLike
To Imani,
I don’t know how old you are but hang in there as one-half of an interracial couple with one child, I know how tough it can be. In the few times, I’ve been down south, I was always struck by the distance between the races as compared to the west coast and specifically the NW. I’m very fortunate that I live in very culturally diverse area but even here we get the stare down occasionally.
The best advice, I can give you is that you’re going to have to be patient and wait for the boys around you to become men. Boys are confused by a lot of unimportant nonsense, the man will know you are the best thing that ever happened to him and are his greatest blessing.
Good luck and stay strong
LikeLike
Dear Imani
I agree with much of what has been said previously. It’s a a big world out there lovely, please don’t feel like they guys where you live now are the be all and end all of existence. You just wait, once you have left education and they are not ‘threatened’ by the stigma of being seen with a person of colour they will come out of the woodwork though tbh with you, I wouldn’t go there if I was you, it will only end in tears IMO.
I was aware of some WM’s who were wary of crossing that colour line though they didn’t articulate this of course. On leaving school in a club (please turn the other way, underage drinking was afoot here lol), one guy who was in my year that I had never conversed with in all the time I was there. He professed his undying attraction for me throughout our school lives and said that he had never dared to approach me because of the differences in colours. I asked him what had changed and as far as I recall his response wasn’t significant enough to make me feel he had actually changed at all and I could just picture he and I walking round the town together, me ten steps behind in case he sees any of his mates. Needless to say nothing happened but I enjoyed teasing the hell out of him that night to let him know what he was missing !!!!
There was one guy in my year who always courted black girls and then black women. He was keen on me at school and I reciprocated (shallow I know but until he was interested in me I wasn’t interested in him LOL) but something about my spirit never fully connected with him despite the fact that clearly he was a smart guy (due to his love of BW of course) lol. I became reacquainted with him through mutual friends a few years after leaving school and all my thoughts/fears and concerns were realised. One ridiculously stupid and ridiculous scenario involved my ‘friend’ another BW who had become very friendly with this guy and visited his house and met his mum and all sorts. I didn’t go, as by this time he and I were already at loggerheads over stupid and flippant derogatory comments he made about black people, thinking he could do this cos he mated and dated BW which I took great exception to. Anyway, she went to his house and his step sister was happened to be a friend of mine was there too. Apparently this guys mother remarked to the step sister that she had a couple of black monkeys in her house!!!! So, (keep up now lol), the step sister told my best friend who told me what was said at which I was obviously appalled but for reasons unknown to myself I didn’t tell the ‘friend’ what had been said. By coincidence I was at her house later that week when they guy called her for a chat and do you know what that numpty said to her? He said ‘my mum thinks that D (me) looks like a fat gorilla’ and he laughed. My ‘friend’ relayed the conversation to me in a shocked whisper whilst he took time to catch his breath. I told her to ask him when his mother had met me because as she and I knew, this meeting hadn’t happened. I then had to break it to her that it was in fact her that he was talking about in her recent visit to his home. The MOFO had forgotten who he was talking to, perhaps for him we all became a big black blur!!!!!! What was at the heart of it was my refusal to respond to his continual requests for a date but as I said initially, I wasn’t feeling it between he and I from the beginning and how right I was. See how the worm turned. Worst thing was my ‘friend’ still bothered with him and often visited his house and used to try to urge me to follow suit which I flat out refused to do. To date he still exclusively dates BW – I wonder if he is lurking on this site somewhere….
LikeLike
Hi King
‘I do agree with much of what you said. But, of course, I would also balance it out by saying that there are a LOT of Black guys who would run down the list of bulging body parts they like on a woman, and might also use Whoopi as everything that they didn’t like. There are plenty of brothas who “fall in love” with a Black sexual fantasy too, but it’s excusable in their case, because they are Black.
Given the history, I understand why there’s a difference, but I’m just saying’.
You are so right with what you say. I have witnessed it being used as a slur but personally, never from BM to BW, usually WM’s who when they say it have definitely not meant it in a complementary way. In fact a friend of mine who was travelling in Australia who happens to have dreadlocks but does not favour Whoopi at all had it said to her several times and she remarked that she thanked the person who said it and they were shocked because he did not mean it in a positive way. She went on to tell him about all the favourable elements she felt Whoopi had and that she had in common with her which disgruntled the guy no end !!!!
LikeLike
Whats wrong with Whoopi? I think she’s nice and funny and smart.
LikeLike
Hey Sam
I think its nice that you recognised and articulated the inner beauty and attributes so simply and I agree.
I guess you would have to ask the said people in the examples discussed previously their ‘rationale’ on this but quite frankly, I doubt if it would be anything worth listening to 🙂
LikeLike
I am a Black man that has mostly been with White women. I am equally attracted to all races of women, for me it basically comes down to 4 factors:
1. I am in medical school, which severely limits the amount of time I can spend looking for a girl to date. I go for whomever is around.
2. 70% of the women in this country are White, 10% are Black, even taking into the account that not all White women date inter-racially, there are still many many more available White women.
3. I am not religious, and I am not interested in dating a religious woman; this removes a decent percentage of Black women.
4. Black women who are educated, non-religious, and attractive are more likely to be open to dating outside their race, or don’t date Black guys at all, so I am competing with every other guy for a very small, specific portion of the Black female population.
So basically, it is a numbers game. The women who have all the various social attributes I prefer are usually not Black. And the ones who are, usually don’t prefer me over anyone else.
LikeLike
I am a single white male who has dated only black women for the past 15 years. I love all women, but black women do something more for me. I don’t think one can put a list of qualities that one sees in a person in terms of looks. I do prefer black women, physically. I seem to have dated stereotypically black women with natural hair and darker skin who are a bit thicker, especially in the butt and legs. I ‘ALSO’ like light skin black women with less exaggerated features. I can tell you that most black women I met that are the ones that the author seems to think are “preferable” are usually the type that don’t date outside their race and they find lots of black men who are attracted to them. It is more how a woman acts, you are right. She doesn’t have to act white, she just has to be a nice woman. I almost felt the author intoned her own attitudes into what she thought men preferred. Recently some supposedly “intelligent” psychologist wrote about how black women are less attractive. He was wrong, also. What is attractive to me includes personality, not just adds to it. Most African American women are somewhat more vocal and somewhat more curious about their roles in society and try hard to push for the best of everything, even in the wrong directions, at times. I love being with any women who are intelligent and the modern African American woman is more apt to be trying to educate herself academically and on a social level. White women and black men assume that they are the most attractive. Some white women have seen me in a restaurant with my black girlfriend and assumed I was cheating on my white wife at home. They don’t imagine that I could actually be attracted to a black woman unless something is damaged about me. Some black men will walk right up to my woman and start talking to her as if I am not there, assuming that since they are both black, he is preferable and doesn’t have to take me into consideration. Both are rude and demanding and have become the epitome of self centered behavior. They are conceited. If a black man was married to a white woman and I walked up to her in public in front of him and started talking to her in a flirtatious manner or as if by virtue of us both being white, there was some unspoken bond between us that made her obligated to act like my “sister”, then, he would get angry. Black men are more aggressive, mostly and most women get offended when being yelled at out of a car window or across a parking lot like she is supposed to respond favorably and be impressed. I guess they keep trying until they find a non-lady like woman that responds in kind. When I asked some black lady why she went over and spoke to some black guy whining about “give a brotha’ a chance, sistah”, she said she felt sorry for him. If that is your only appeal is to be a “charity case” then it probably isn’t going to last long.
I have attended a Pentacostal Church in my hometown that had a congregation of every kind of black women. Age, size, build, etc. was different. Not all of any race is attractive, but I can tell you one thing. Someone who smiles alot of any race, talks intelligently, and seems to have been well read, likes movies, is more liberal, and seems fun to be with (sense of humor included), and is more attractive to anyone. Is that a type you can define? Not with a picture.
I think maybe the author was talking about someone who doesn’t speak in Ebonics when she said someone who talks like a white woman. I have met black women in college that made me want to be with them, just because they were that impressively intelligent. Education can cause a big divide. One of my best English professors was hispanic and said his family told him he was forgetting where he came from, wasn’t a good Mexican, etc. , trying to hold him back from talking like someone who spoke English properly. One African American woman I was in a Sociology class with told us that her family and friends acted like she was too good for them because she was getting an education. People need to realize that education is a good thing, not something to have a sour grapes attitude about if someone you know is getting a degree and is successful in school. But some white people have tried to make it seem like being educated is a “White Only” activity. In this economy with jobs being so scarce, it has gotten to where most people need a bachelor’s degree to be able to find work that doesn’t include the phrase, “Do you want fries with that?” White people aren’t the only ones who care about getting ahead, getting educated, or speaking in a manner which allows everyone to understand them. So, that isn’t a black or white quality.
LikeLike
I have read most of the comments on this string and this is so interesting to me to see what most people think about the racial divide. I am pretty much convinced that a lot of what I read is misguided, but then, so might my own opinion be. See if you can follow me. There is a tendency in this country to try to supress anything new and outside the norm. We call those taboos and morays. If you study sociology, the study of people, you learn that race isn’t so much of a dividing factor as CULTURAL ENVIRONMENT is. Why? Because we are all curious. The tendency in some is to explore their curiosity. Further, it is the dictionary definition of Liberal that says: “…favorable to progress or reform, as in political or religious affairs.” And the definition of conservative, which most of us are encouraged to be is, “…disposed to preserve existing conditions, institutions, etc., or to restore traditional ones, and to limit change.” In other words, people who are inclined to NOT accept or actually have fear for change, will not accept anything they didn’t learn outside their home. What they grew up with and are used to is all they want to see. Conservatives are accused of being racist but that racism comes from fear of what is unknown to them, a new condition or environment that they aren’t familiar with. Everyone has to do one of two things. Either you accept change in your life, including that of people you seem to feel are different, or you don’t. Some of us RUN towards change and progress. Some of us don’t trust it. In our society in America, the good old United States has a lot of Authority Figures. Those who don’t think outside the box rely on the opinion of authority figures. Some of us trust them, some of us immediately trust them, and some of us are skeptical about everyone and every thing. That third category is those who think “critically” instead of just memorizing what is considered the normal view. Those things are taught to us by our teachers as children, our religious leaders, and our politicians. Think about how racism started in the South. First, black people were considered to make good farm animals by some who cherished their wealth more than human dignity (Do we see a pattern forming here?). For years black men and women were considered less than human by some. Then there were the other side of the street, the liberal thinking educated philosophical people like Henry David Thoreau who used to get thrown in jail each year for non-payment of his taxes in order to protest the legalization of slavery in Massachusetts. There has always been a social divide between the smarter, but less affluent in society and those who were more inclined to go with their bottom line instead of what they actually KNEW was right, for the sake of money. In the South, right after the civil war, there were some slaves that recieved their “reparations” of forty acres and a mule. They worked hard and built a life for themselves and their children. Then there was the Southern poor white male who had nothing, no mule, no acres, no home (it got burned down during the war), no money, no slaves to work his land, and he was basically piss poor and out of luck for having been born in the South. He burned with hate against blacks because he needed to fell superior to someone because he knew it wasn’t true. His insecurity kept him in the state of self delusion that he was better than a black man and that life had been unfair to him. He finally got back on his feet and turned to trying to take everything he could from anyone who didn’t believe the same way he did.
The majority of the wealth of this nation has been built on slave labor. The men who wrote that “…all men were created equal…” owned slaves. In order to buy the hearts and minds of the American people most people even read in our history books that our founding fathers were Christians when in fact most of them were Deists who had left England to escape the Christian Church of England (Roman Catholicism) and wanted nothing to do with it, but when was the last time you heard that? Why? Control. Here is the message. Be a humble peon and be happy and giving to each other, so we can take the majority of the wealth from you and make you our slaves, keeping you in bondage. Think about this, when slavery was legal, slaves only received enough food, clothing, and shelter to keep them healthy enough to work. If that is all you are earning now, what is the difference?
Unfortunately, African Americans have been snubbed and left out of so many organizations for so long that they desperately NEED to belong and sometimes run headlong into a monetary trap or negative ideology just because they were finally accepted by someone after being snubbed for so long. That is a manipulation game. Think about it. Now they say, “YES, we are sorry we discriminated against you for so many centuries, but we changed or minds and decided to accept you as one of our own. Now, give us your money.” It is merely a child’s game of reverse psychology.
When it comes to divison of the races, that is perpetuated by both sides and will continue for as long as we aren’t educated. When we decided to force the nation to “integrate” they should have been forced at the same time to accept black people as equals in dating and marriage, although that was still “ILLEGAL” in some states, making it seem that our authorities decided that so that made it right to some. That is once again, reliance upon authority instead of someone who thinks for themselves (Do you see where I am going with this?). The more intelligent and accepting of culturally diversity that a person is usually is a sign of intelligence and confidence.
That is why interracial couples mostly are seen as Educated and Intelligent because it takes someone like that to step outside the norm and look other people of different races in the eye, smile, and mean it. That spark of interest, that light behind your eyes, that acknowledgement of my race and gender without fear (self confidence) is what is attractive to me in any woman, including and for me, ESPECIALLY in women of a different race because that shows me in itself something of a personality in an instant. It can be faked by a few for selfish reasons but that guy who takes you out in public and doesn’t seem to notice anyone staring at you, as the two of you are walking together like the sore thumb of doom, is the guy who is smarter and not afraid of what anyone else thinks (self-confidence) and is looking for you to show him the same things. That is what WM like in BW and what BW like in WM. And those of you who wish to perpetuate the fear about slavery that is never going to come about here again, and live on a resentment towards Scottish slavers who sold the whole concept to some Americans, because some African rulers and thinkers wanted to get rid of some of their own warriors and hunters who they couldn’t control any other way, are living in a self perpetuated knowledge vacuum. But, that is okay. We are all entitled to our own opinion. You just can’t have your own reality. Saying that WM like BW for purposes of a Master Slave fantasy would mean that BW are attracted to WM since they want to own a white man. (The same logic?) For a WM to want to date or marry you means he has accepted any consequences of his actions and BW do the same since our own cultures try to keep us separated. The political and wealthy enjoy that because if we are fighting amongst each other, we are not focusing on the real problem, the greed, anger, and foolishness that keeps us from being successful Americans. So while we are grasping at sand and fighting with each other, still fearful of letting go of fears that we were taught, we will never solve the problem. I would like to mention here that interracial dating and marriage have caused a great deal of solutions in even Apartheid. When it was stated to some people who had black looking children, although both of them were considered white looking, that, most Afrikaners were at least to some degree having black genetics, some finally relaxed and it was decided that children who looked black but were born to two white parents were to be “classified” as white by their government. You can imagine the Poop storm that those revelations started.
Bottom line is, your heart won’t care what color someone is if you fall in love with them and interracial relationships have brought races together as men who were merely curious, not only found acceptance of black women but were forced to admit to themselves that black people are merely that, just someone who looks a different color. As we grow together as humans we find that we all want the same things and even though some of our values are slightly different, we pretty much just want to be happy.
LikeLike
This post as written is not about white validation. Hardly. In fact, one of the underlying themes of this blog is how whites set beauty standards and then, as Leigh put it, shove it down the rest of our throats. Since at least puberty my own ideas about female beauty have been at odds with such standards. I still do not get the thin, blonde-haired, blue-eyed thing.
I wrote this post because I thought it was interesting how white men who DATE black women do not go for the ones you would expect. Something I was thinking about one time when I was waiting for the subway train.
I thought this post would get torn to pieces in a few days – you can see that in the disclaimer language at the beginning. I never dreamed it would become one of my most commented posts, that it would still be drawing comments three years later.
LikeLike
Arizona Mildman says,
I am a single white male who has dated only black women for the past 15 years. I love all women, but black women do something more for me. I don’t think one can put a list of qualities that one sees in a person in terms of looks. I do prefer black women, physically.
I seem to have dated stereotypically black women with natural hair and darker skin who are a bit thicker, especially in the butt and legs. I ‘ALSO’ like light skin black women with less exaggerated features. I can tell you that most black women I met that are the ones that the author seems to think are “preferable” are usually the type that don’t date outside their race and they find lots of black men who are attracted to them.
White women and black men assume that they are the most attractive. Some white women have seen me in a restaurant with my black girlfriend and assumed I was cheating on my white wife at home. They don’t imagine that I could actually be attracted to a black woman unless something is damaged about me. Some black men will walk right up to my woman and start talking to her as if I am not there, assuming that since they are both black, he is preferable and doesn’t have to take me into consideration.
Both are rude and demanding and have become the epitome of self centered behavior. They are conceited. If a black man was married to a white woman and I walked up to her in public in front of him and started talking to her in a flirtatious manner or as if by virtue of us both being white, there was some unspoken bond between us that made her obligated to act like my “sister”, then, he would get angry. Black men are more aggressive, mostly and most women get offended when being yelled at out of a car window or across a parking lot like she is supposed to respond favorably and be impressed.
laromana says,
Thanks for posting this EXCELLENT comment, Arizona Mildman. I couldn’t agree more. It’s about time a NON-BW noted the TRUTH about how BW are mistreated by ANTI-BW WW/BM in their IRR’S.
My sister/I and other BW we know have repeatedly experienced the disrespectful, presumptuous attitudes you’ve described from ANTI-BW WW/BM towards our IRR’s. It never ceases to amaze me how arrogant/self involved ANTI-BW WW/BM are towards BW and how they just assume that either BW aren’t “good enough” to be with WM, aren’t “good enough” to be with BM or should ONLY date BM.
It never occurs to these ignorant, self serving ANTI-BW WW/BM that BW can love/date/marry WHOMEVER they please and that IT’S NONE OF THEIR BUSINESS.
It also doesn’t surprise me that ANTI-BW BM who condone/promote ANTI-BW HATE/ NEVER defend BW against attacks on our humanity, dignity, and feminity, have the nerve to think it’s THEIR RIGHT to dictate who we CAN/CAN’T love/date/marry.
LikeLike
As a half black/Mexican girl dating a white boy I’m a little hurt and offended by this post. I have been told that I act “white” by black people and I am considered “thin” by black standards but I know for a fact that my boyfriend would date either kind of the women featured in this post. I also wear my hair natural and my boyfriend
prefers my natural hair to straightened hair. If anything he would be more inclined toward the second set of women because he is a boy who can appreciate the uniqueness and strenth of looks like that. At first I liked your blog for its insightfulness at but now I think that you attempt to compartmentalize white people into categories too much. Ironically, I find myself more accepted by white boys then by black boys who I feel are much more judgmental of non-white women. Many black boys have told me that I am too “tall” and “skinny” (I am five feet eight and weigh 128 pounds with a slender waist, substantial ass and slightly above average breasts) and that i act too “white” and seem to go for the more fake and processed black girls
With weaves and caked on makeup.
So before pointing fingers at white men for being shallow you should spend some serious time examining the shallowness of black men.
LikeLike
Interesting blog. Just thought I’d add my two cents.
I can see the beauty in women from all backgrounds, and have been dating across races and cultures since the late 70s. I’ve been married to a strong smart black woman for almost 17 years now, and we’ve got a strong, smart beautiful daughter.
Regardless of skin tone, cultural or racial background, we all need to meet somebody who we can really relate to, enjoy the little things in life together, make us laugh, treat each other right, balance each other, and of course somebody we’re hot for. 🙂
On the last count, we all have different preferences. Some people like more contrast and variation, or “exotic” relationships. Some people are attracted to people more similar to themselves. Some guys like thick girls and some like model skinny girls. There’s nothing wrong with any of that. It just is. So don’t try to fight it – just appreciate people who appreciate you. And ignore the ones who don’t – they’re not worth wasting time thinking about.
But for sure, black women are beautiful women. Don’t any of you let anybody’s preconceived notions of beauty tell you any different, and don’t let some magazine article tell you who is going to be attracted to you.
One white guy who knows. 😉
Peace.
LikeLike
I like intelligent, warm-herted women. If they have hour-glass bodies, I pass out of sheer extacy, and will ever have a chance talking to them.
And no, I’m not even joking. Bunny over there actually made me pass out for awhile.
LikeLike
that is natural
LikeLike
I am a African American female who is 25 and recently engaged to a white man. We dated for 6 years. I am what you called dark, large lips, large nose my hubby is irish. He loves me the way I AM I actually am the first African American he dated we fell in love with each other.. I am very well educated and he is not but we compliment each other.. I begin to become attracted to him but not at first probably the same with him.. we both were use to our own race we fell in love with each other and then we fell in love with each other beauty. What I am trying to say is that Beauty by any body standards other then God is wrong Love triumphs beauty all the time look at Halle Berry she cant keep a husband black or white.. Any of the beautiful celebs white girls either.. If more people let love set in before lust there will be less divorce rates. I love my white hubby and wouldn’t trade him for a black guy. Did I go looking for a white men did he go looking for a black women No! BUT we found each other and saying black women that look more white is preferable then white men would just stay with white women its something else its the difference that makes them attractive and wanted. and dark beauty is as special as white or light skinned
LikeLike
@gena
How wonderful that you have found love – congratulations to you both. I agree with a lot of what you say and it is refreshing to hear that neither of you were ‘looking’ for someone of a particular race, just that you met, had a connection and fell in love.
I do appreciate people dating out of their race though not necessarily to the exclusion of their own. By this I mean that when someone reveres one race and puts down their own race by comparison. I think beyond this to if those people decide to have kids, what is the hope for the potential children of that union? A mixed up individual with no personal pride and ashamed of one side of their own cultural identity. I witness this constantly in a friend of mine who told me that when she was growing up she always tried to assimilate with the white people at her school though the constantly rejected her as neither of her parents were caucasian. She even used to tell people her Dad was white though the brown skin and headgear would have been a dead give away and probably led to her being ridiculed but anything to fit in!!!!!
My personal stance on this is purely that I respond to the way I am being treated and when people treat me well, whatever ‘guise’ that comes under I am happy to embrace that. I know what I like in terms of physicality but I see aspects of this in ALL men and don’t discriminate. Simplistic I know but hey, life can be complicated and difficult enough is my theory anyway.
LikeLike
Well, I do find women of all ethnicities attractive… It just might be that I’m over saturated by blonds… Attraction is strange… I’ve met omen who I have an immediate mental connection with, but no physical attraction. I suppose I’m somewhat superficial then, looks do matter…
Above all ethnic charasteristics, I’m strongly drawn to women who have warm, sensitive eyes… I’m instinctively drawn to them. But physically, yes, I really like what many (not all) bw look like… Nice, brown skin, lovely brown eyes, preferably natural hair, long stride powered by lovely, strong buttocks and thighs, lol! Pride, intelligence and warmth in their eyes…
LikeLike
i am a white man and very attracted to black women. a lot of black women today are very hot.
LikeLike
@frank
a lot of black women today are very hot.
I totally agree Frank 🙂
LikeLike
I am a white man that loves dark skinned black women with natural hair,in fact the darker they are the more I want them,not that I get any mind you,but I lust after them and would gladly date and marry one given the chance.
LikeLike
any attempt to categorize is just plain stupid,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,though the logic is sound to attempt to associate ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, any people who like a person for specifics are just not worth being with as they have issues
so if your study identifies samenesses then what that shows are people to avoid
LikeLike
the haters, the haters, the haters !!! first, i think (and I am a white man) that all of the women posted in the article are absolutely beautiful. and i can’t believe you think a white man wouldn’t love Sade ??? i was a teenager when i first heard her on the radio. i liked her singing. so the next time i went into a music store i looked for her tapes. WOW !!! i was floored ! i thought she was the most beautiful woman in the world. so proud, so strong, almost majestic , incredible. in destiny’s child, i always thought that Kelly was the truly beautiful one. Phylicia Rashad, always loved her. love darker skin. love the Afro or straight, which ever she prefers. and thick ??? for the love of god !!! can any woman carry it like a black woman ??? i don’t think so !!!
with love for all black women
from an American white man
oxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxox
LikeLike
@ Robert Colvin
with love for all black women
Spreading the love for ya Robert lol 🙂
LikeLike
WOW I LOVE THIS BLOG!! SO MANY THINGS HAVE COME OUT AND READING IT HAS BEEN REALLY EDIFYING. SO MUCH I HAVE READ HERE THAT I WOULDN’T HAVE GUESSED OR MERELY THOUGHT ABOUT IN A MILLION YEARS. I MUST SAY I DON’T NECESSARY AGREE WITH EVERYONE’S OPINION, WHICH IS NATURAL BUT…THERE’S NO DOWNSIZING THE FACT THAT THIS SO FAR HAS BEEN MOST INTERESTING! BEAUTIFUL YOUNG BLACK WOMAN SAYING NUFF RESPECT TO EVERYONE!! ❤
LikeLike
**NECESSARILY (EXCUSE ME) 🙂
LikeLike
It’s a very common myth that males have some special preference for ideal woman. Very often they said it’s “lean white woman and blonde”. The truth is the scale of white men (or any other men) of ideal woman is very width. So when we think about ideal black woman of white man we just have to throw away another myth. She isn’t just tanned (Halle Berry.-style) female. I’ve noticed that striking many black females dating white men have dark colour skin, great many could be categorized as “very black” . I would see this in this way: why to stop on halfway if you have good chance to reach to promised land.
LikeLike
Okay, fine. People of a certain race are going to be more attracted to others who act and look like them. Black people do it, white people do it, Asians do it, it’s human nature. I find this a bit ridiculous. Normally I enjoy your posts but this is silly. I’m a black/Mexican girl(similar in appearance to Rosario Dawson though in truth nobody out there really looks much like me) that wears my hair naturally curly most of the time and I’m sure I
fall into your category of “acceptable blackness” or “black girls that white guys like.” Give me a break. I only get attention from most black men when my hair is straightened. Yet they seem to feel like I’m not “black enough” and disregard the fact that I’m biracial, knowing nothing about my past or my family. In another post you mention white girls that you find attractive such as Sofia Loren and Kim Kardashian….these girls have “exotic” features closer to that of a middle eastern or black woman than that of a white woman. Dark eyes, curvaceous figures, dark hair, etc. Why is it wrong for a white man to be attracted to black girls with features like that of a white woman? Sure it’s annoying and ignorant when white guys say that Halle Barry is the most beautiful black woman there is, but it’s their loss
For not being able to appreciate true black beauty, just like it’s your loss for not being able to appreciate the beauty of a blonde blue eyed woman. Of course I think all races are beautiful in their own way and that a person should love someone for who they really are, and not how they look.
LikeLike
From reading the comments I sense most of the bi-racial women on this blog are upset. This is interesting. The OP posted this thread giving an objective view of what HE sees on a daily basis. Not what is graved in stone, but merely what his two eyes sees.
On another note, these same women who are on his list of what White men like are women that are on a whole scrutinized, belittled and are viewed as less attractive compared to the whole race spectrum of women including bi-racial women. These women get it day and day out and are overlooked and frowned upon just because they are very apparently Black. So I do not get the sensitivity when one out of thousands of situations these women get some glory. You cry this one time, because of your half and half you got a bad deal, yet most Black women are overlooked by Black and White men, especially Black men (and the proof goes some post up) to get to you…you cry this one time, yet Black women cried for centuries…please give me a break!
If this post was the other way around most (IMO) bi-racial women would have nothing to say, because like everything else this is how its suppose to be and to some its like going against nature or breaking a rule to think and go for the underdog.
LikeLike
When it comes to dating, white, black, or Asian it doesn’t matter. Do you really love this person, most the time thise is the questions we all ask. I am black woman who tends to date out my race. I date brothers too, most the time I like to date someone close to my culture. It doesn’t matter is white or black as long as we are from the same culture. I will never date a black or a white American male, everything for those people is about money. Someone like me I rely more on culture first then come the other meaningful things in life. This is my opinion. That doesnt make a racist. you can love what ever you want. I think every relationship has their burden, even is bm or wm.
LikeLike
I find that the heart wants what it wants esp in people who don’t judge each other for being born a certain race. I am a black female and I have seen a lot of white and Asian men interested in dating black girls. Even a lot of them who lost their minds over that relationshipp which means they were incredibly connected. I know black girls who were attached and or married to Swedish,French and English guys. I also noticed these are unconventional types whose selves correspond to each other. It isn’t a matter of race but chemistry and a deeper synchronous connection.
There is a strong sense of what Kathy and Heathcliff experienced in Wuthering Heights. Kathy ended up marrying Linton due to pressure to be the hostess’ greatlady of the neighborhood’but you see in the end she realized she loved Heathcliff, the gypsy as some called him.
As she was dying birthing Linton’s baby he asked her ‘Why did you betray your own heart. Nothing that God or Satan could devise could have parted us.’
Some people refused to commit that crime of betraying their heart come hell or high water. Their love was such that even after death she couldn’t rest in peace and he never wanted her to. “Haunt me take any form..only don’t leave me.” Even Death must have marvelled at this type of love.
What rest can there be? To refuse love for the reason of race that is a grave folly. If all society jumps into a clifff are we supposed to follow?We have individual brains for a good reason.
Hate is the flip side of love if someone didn’t like you they would be indifferent we must understand this.Maybe you can teach them that hate isn’t the way maybe nobody has yet.Ever think of that?
Love conquers all. I have even seen an otherwise bigotted racist person breaking all his rules for a black girl that he liked. There he was talking about Russian Mexicans just not when she’s around.She had no idea even about his racist views because although she is black he cared about how she saw him. No for her he brought books and wanted to invite to his house because he considered her his friend.
It was funny for her he was trying to figure out how to make her race work for her in getting her a job at the post office. Note the incredible power of love he broke his own rules! LOL!
She inspired him apparently it was something about her and I don’t think it was beauty or appearance perhaps it was something in her being her nature that touched him.
Simply put the heart wants what it wants and it wants you. Society and the majority might see things a certain way but reality could be a different way for others. Not all of us are the same. I see intolerance from people walking around projecting their issues onto interracial couples that is selfish and wrong.
Also the media depicting blond men as evil is nonsense. Obviously blond men today don’t need to be paying for crimes they personally didn’t commit.German men aren’t evil they too are loving if you give them a chance.
None of us is God and aren’t fit to judge others none of us are perfect. Waste not want not if your heart is AWAKENED by someone are you going to turn love away and betray your heart? Really? Because they’re the wrong race and others don’t approve.That’s the craziest thing I’ve ever heard. You’re going to call it jungle fever and reduce it to its sexual components. That is madness like everything else you get back what you put into it.
Peace and love to you
LikeLike
Hello to all,
I’m a 30 year old medium complexion, black woman living in Canada. I have a fuller but toned, curvaceous figure, 44-34-44 inches, more like a size 16. I recently joined a dating site and I was surprised at the number of handsome white men who asked me out. Several of them had serious relationships with black women in the past. They told me that they’ve always found fuller-figured black women like me to be very attractive but were often afraid to take the initiative unless she appeared to be highly receptive.
The main complaint about black women that I’ve heard from white men is that too many of us are loud, aggressive and confrontational, even in public. They want a sweet, gentle, soft-spoken, feminine and classy black woman. Coincidently, if you do an internet search for an explanation of white men’s attraction to Asian women, white dudes with “yellow fever” often list those traits. I personally think that an Asian woman’s physical appeal has more to do with her height than her dress size as I’ve seen many fuller-figured ones with white men. Come to think of it, 95% of non-Asian men would feel big, strong and tall next to an Asian woman. I’ve also noticed that Asian women are usually nicely dressed, wear quite a bit of makeup and their hair is well coiffed, they are “girly girls”….think of all the Asian manicurist that you’ll find in any major city.
The main complaint that I’ve read about white women is that they tend to be man-hating feminists, who are always eager to assert their “rights” and independence, and aren’t feminine enough.
So my overall impression is that White men or men in general want a woman who will take the time to look attractive for them, treat them nicely and reinforce their masculinity. Her race and dress-size is secondary; otherwise only skinny women would have husbands!
LikeLike
Abagond love your blog and this 100% true.
LikeLike
wow I’ll just come out and say I loveee white men because they’re sooo sweet and warm I will definitely be sticking with either foreigners or white men for sure. Theyre more excepting of black women than our own race, and btw I’m so sick of the light skinned vs.darker skin crap I’m a darker complexion and my fathers from ghana I’m beautiful andd have very beautiful features and body complexity , I have such a sexy proper voice and have had black males put me down in the past with the help of many black females also, I have always meshed with people of the opposite race someway somehow theyre so much more respectful to me than my own people? How I dont understand. I am currently talking to many white men and they are absolutely breath-taking the things that they say to me are just unheard of in my family, I’m getting to no all of them as friends for now most of them in which live and are from the Uk, Scotland, or Ireland. And if they’re in america seem to be mostly in coastal areas such as florida, california, new jersey, etc.. That’s all I have to say. But I love my culture and my people but I feel at times they try and have a competition to see who can have the most diversity? Which if thats truly you than ok, but not just like how black men do it because they think theyre race is hideous and theyre insecure so they go and get with a white or spanish women just to have mixed offspring? I dont think that’s right at all , so be it.
LikeLike
I disagree personally with this I love black women and i don’t care how light or dark they are. I do prefer big booty like Buffy the Body for example. But I have noticed women like that don’t like white men at least in my experience.
LikeLike
I think most of this “blog” is a heavy load of horse puckey. Before I met my dark-skinned Black wife, I dated Black women who were “mixed,” light-skinned, darker, and whatever. I never dated a White woman in my life and never wanted to. I’m a big, 6″3 Jewish guy with nappy hair and a Caucasian complexion. Guess I’m not behaving the way I’m supposed to. Uh-oh, better call the racist Thought Police.
LikeLike
Maybe you are not as ‘white’ as you thought you were. What with your ‘nappy’ hair and all. Hence, your wife may not be married to a ‘white’ man in all actuality!
LikeLike
Well, I was born to Russian Jewish parents and Russian Jewish grandparents and they all had nappy hair that needed jherri juice or Johnson’s cocoa butter. But my grandmother on my father’s side did have dark skin, God rest her soul.
LikeLike
yaadiscovers says,
wow I’ll just come out and say I loveee white men because they’re sooo sweet and warm I will definitely be sticking with either foreigners or white men for sure. Theyre more excepting of black women than our own race, and btw I’m so sick of the light skinned vs.darker skin crap…
laromana says,
I agree with your sentiment and, although I’ve always had a prefernece for WM, I feel for BW who only prefer BM and are constantly being dismissed/disrespected by MANY BM who are self hating/ANTI-BW.
LikeLike
It’s really great this blog has been active for many years now. I wanted to add a few comments as well.
I am a BW (dark-skinned if it matters), married to a WM for 9 years, and have been with him for 14 years total. We are Americans living in the U.S. We have a wonderful marriage and are each other’s best friend. We are in our mid-40’s.
As far as black women white men would like, when it comes down to it, certain WM will always be attracted to certain BW. I don’t think you can really put into categories what some WM will find attractive in certain BW. There are very subtle nuances of personality and preference that leads one person to be attracted to another. I think it all boils down to WM and BW giving each other a chance on an individual basis. We need to stop making broad, sweeping generalizations and stereotypical assumptions about each other and get on with getting to know each other one-on-one. Only then can you find out what is really true about a person and whether they are someone you’d want to pursue a relationship with.
I have to say something with regard to the stereotypical views of black women. Not all BW are loud, aggressive and in-your-face in their communication style. People really need to be aware of lumping all BW together as if we are all exactly the same. Many Black women are quiet, studious, friendly, warm and nurturing. But those of us that fit this description barely get noticed sometimes because we don’t stand out. Many non-black women behave in loud, aggressive, unfriendly ways too. However, I feel BW are judged much more harshly when they are loud. I think there is a double-standard.
For the WM criticizing BW for being loud and obnoxious, I hope you are willing to do a fair assessment of behavior coming from some WM, from road rage, domestic violence, bar fights, throwing things at people at ball games and loud, souped-up cars and motorcycles that wake up the whole neighborhood. I’ve been exposed to plenty of loud, aggressive and obnoxious behaviors coming from some WM, so don’t put this all on BW. At least I know better than to generalize and think all WM behave this way.
When people think of BW, it would be nice if they thought of the women who are great thinkers, actors and writers who can articulate their thoughts in the most poetic of ways, women like Alice Walker, Angela Bassett, Bell Hooks, and Nikki Giovanni for instance.
BW also need to realize that not all WM are racist and afraid of getting involved with them. Not all white men have hang-ups about skin color. Not all WM see BW as ugly and inferior to WW. Not all WM just want to get in your pants out of “curiosity” to see what it would be like to have sex with a BW. Not all WM are afraid to introduce you to their parents and not all WM are afraid of having Black/biracial children. Some WM would cherish nurturing and caring for us and protecting us. Some WM really have beautiful hearts and souls. The ones that don’t are the ones to stay away from. I’m sure most who post here already realize these things, but I encounter many BW who don’t so I felt like getting this off my chest.
BW have criticized me for not being “loyal” to BM, as if by marrying a WM, I’m somehow a sell-out. First of all, I never thought I owed loyalty to BM just because they were Black. Loyalty should not mean imprisoning myself within my own ethnic group when there are terrific, gorgeous, fun, intelligent, kind, gentleman in all other ethnic groups. Second of all, I am truly loyal to the people who are kind, supportive and loyal to me, most of all, my husband. I don’t get the impression that many BM feel some obligation to BW not to date or marry outside of our ethnic group. Why should BW feel obligated to only date and marry BM? Expand your horizons!
Peace and Blessings to you!!
LikeLike
@Beth,
Hi 🙂
I like a lot of the sentiment that you express in your post. Glad to hear that you are happy in your relationship too.
On another note, something that is cropping up quite a lot on here is this old what WM want/like in BW. I too am tired of hearing that BW are loud, obnoxious agressive etc but by the same token I do not aspire to be the kind of woman that WM are apparently actively seeking under the ‘Yellow Fever’ label either.
I am who I am – take it or leave it. Never make assumptions about people and you wont be disappointed. 1) Don’t hope I am the ‘safe’ little negro that you can pat on the head and discuss your perverse stereotypes with and think that I won’t respond and 2) dont treat me like an animal wary of me savaging you verbally or physically either. These are the most base and negative stereotypes that I have come across in WP generally though not ALL WP of course.
The point that I am trying to make is that I dont give a sh*t what race of man would want me as a BW. All I know is that I am a decent individual who is loving and caring but, if you piss me off, expect me to react. If you put your hands on me or threaten me in some way then you are damn right I will retaliate. I am petite in stature and when I look back in retrospect am amazed at the amount of times that I have been labelled with Amazonian warrior/ Savage monkey treatment from WP just because of my colour and have had to respond to this. I will not allow myself to be subjugated by people because I know how to articulate myself and can do so clearly, concisely, and eloquently if the need arises, though it wont always be nice either.
So – what does this mean? That I fit the mould of loud, aggressive and obnoxious? Yes, many BW are like this but not necessarily in a threatening or offensive way. I think of down at the local West Indian market where a lot of bartering and banter takes place amongst folks and its always loud and changes in tone at a moments notices. Are the WM viewing this and using as an example to determine what they would expect in an interaction with BW? Though I must say, it is usually the older generation who do this in my experience.
I do wonder if these WM who have had the ‘misfortune’ to experience these negative traits from all these loud, obnoxious BW directly are watching these BW interact from afar or whether they have come from one of the 2 groups I have mentioned above in which case I am not surprised they faced the wrath of the said individual.
I also wonder if as well that many BW seem comfortable in their own skin and whether that confidence is mistaken for arrogance and then comes across as being obnoxious and therefore a threat to them in their own insecurities?
In ALL races you have the good, the bad and the ugly and people that unfortunately revert to ‘type’. In this particular scenario though IMO, this labelling is an excuse for these kind of WM not to interact with BW because they are scared. Scared of what society will think and scared of the ‘difference’. Its a cop out, pure and simple but nothing to get bogged down about after all, variety is the spice of life and just because one particular guy doesnt fancy one particular woman doesnt mean the next man wont be interested too.
LikeLike
@ Demerera
Hi there, I feel your heart and soul coming through your post and I really see where you are coming from.
When I was talking about how some WM perceive BW as loud and obnoxious, I was coming from the standpoint that some see us that way no matter what we do and don’t give us a chance. Some WM see BW as one dimensional and don’t see or look for the nuances in our personalities. For example, I could be sitting in the library reading a book quietly, but in their minds, I’m going to become the loud BW they don’t want anything to do with. They (some) already have their minds made up about what I’m going to be like. I agree that often times that perspective is a prejudiced cop-out because what is it to be prejudiced? It means you are pre-judging me without giving me a chance. It’s much easier to do that than to actually talk to me and find out I’m a good conversationalist. I and all BW have many different sides and I’d like that to be appreciated. For the ones that are too scared to talk to me because they care too much about what other people think, I’m really not interested in getting to know them anyway. Plus, I’m already married so for me, I could care less!
But you know, sometimes BW are loud and more aggressive because we are the ones being mistreated. You are right-why should we just stand by and let people walk all over us? Of course we as BW should stand up for ourselves. All people of all ethnic groups get angry and aggressive sometimes in their interactions with people. It’s called not being a doormat. But it seems that if BW get loud or aggressive, perhaps in the face of racism or discrimination, she is now given the “angry black woman label,” even though her anger could be very well justified. People of other ethnic groups get to be angry, which is a normal human emotion, without being branded with a label.
Sometimes people are loud just because they are having fun. When I go out to dinner, there are all kinds of people being loud: White people, Black people, Korean people, Indian people, Mexican people-it’s no big deal, they are enjoying themselves.
Another thing is this. What do people think happens in the psyche of BW when we are often being told we are fat, ugly, unattractive, lazy, unintelligent, welfare queens who are unwanted, even by BM? Wouldn’t most people feel angry after a while if that is the predominant message you hear about yourself? If WM were often told that they are the least attractive and desirable of all people, that they don’t accomplish anything worthwhile, and that all they do is sit around all day taking up space, they would feel angry too after a while.
So perhaps the WM complaining about BW being loud and aggressive could try and be more understanding and see things from the perspective of BW. Instead of being scared away, maybe some could try listening and understanding. Are they judging BW more harshly for her behavior than they would a WM or a WW who is behaving the same way? Are we only acceptable if we are always quiet and docile? I don’t see how that will work. I get can get loud too on the phone if I’m talking to a customer service rep that keeps talking over me and cutting me off. It’s called standing up for myself and being assertive. I don’t think I deserve the label “angry black woman” with a chip on my shoulder for that. Lord knows many WM get loud and aggressive too like I mentioned in my previous post, but I don’t see some WM acknowledge that often enough. I’m sure they would not like being labeled “angry white men,” as if those momentary occurrences define their entire being. I can be loud, but usually I’m a quiet person who minds my own business because that’s my personality. It depends on the situation and what is going on. But I will not take racist, sexist crap from anyone either and I have studied self-defense extensively so if someone puts his hands on me, I will unleash the Warrioress within me! That’s something to be proud of. And I’ll use my big, curvy hips and butt while I’m defending myself too!!
LikeLike
@ Beth,
I agree with all that you have said here, its so true.
Its frustrating that this ‘stereotyping’ still seems to exist and that people refuse to get their heads round it but saying that, once you are wise to these kind of people, they can often easily be identified…. and avoided.
Nothing else for it but to listen to your instinct and learn from experience. I have learned to trust my judgment and gut feeling about such things.
Take care Beth 🙂
LikeLike
You guys are all totally nuts and in dire need of serious therapy. I have never come across people as obsessed with skin colour as black (sorry African) Americans. .I ‘m a black african grew up in between Nigeria, Ghana and London, went to university in England and have lived in several countries since. I find that social class is probably the most consistent indicator in dating, marriage, socialising habits, and that this transcends race, ethnicity in most societies. Wealthy families everywhere tend to more likely than not marry into other wealthy families, college graduates prefer to marry other college graduates, professionals tend to marry other professionals, aristocracy is more than likely to marry aristocracy…..because they share similar values, aspirations and outlook .I cannot believe Abagond when he/she says they’ve never considered a persons education, profession etc as a criteria for dating/ marriage. Then what on earth do you consider??
Wake up up black America . Start looking beyond race and whether people are “fair skinned” or have ” white features ” and all that bull. The world is divided into social classes. Social class and class mobility is a function of your background, education and ultimately your ability to create wealth and value. Just ask any of the 1000s of African millionaires with homes in your best “white ” neighbourhoods, kids in your most exclusive schools and shares in your biggest companies
LikeLike
@ Demerera
Thanks for the thoughtful discussion and have a great week-take care!
In addition to issues of social class and education which I agree are very important in terms of who people date and marry, I think the issue of knowing another language, being bilingual/multi-lingual, is extremely important. Too many Americans know only English and no other language. If you are a black woman interested in dating white men from other countries, it is to your benefit to start taking at least small steps in learning another language. I’m not saying to learn another language just for dating purposes, but to be a more well-rounded human being.
The BBC website gives good introductory lessons in French, Spanish, German and other languages. Knowing another language makes you more attractive in general because you are showing that you care enough about other people’s cultures to make an effort, reach out and try to see the world from their point of view. I have been studying French for the past year and even though it is challenging, it is worth the effort because when I encounter French people in my area, I can participate in pleasant exchanges in French, albeit beginner level. Learning another language is great for your self esteem and opens up so many doors for you. Practicing a few minutes a day is better than nothing. You never know, it could open up the door to a wonderful new relationship! 🙂
bonne journée! (Have a nice day)!
LikeLike
im wboi.
have a black gf.
her looks got my attention first, natch.
shes brown skinned. def my type..
but it was herself that won me over.
shes got her shit together and knows what she wants.
i love being with her.
i love holding her, kissing her and making love
im lucky wboi.
LikeLike
I’d say it in this way: if you are going to from Toronto to Mississippi, why to make a brake and stay in Missouri?
LikeLike
“The features of her face can be black, but not too black. ”
Perhaps you’re thinking about Alek Wek-style woman? Perhaps true. However if woman is nice, charming, sensuell, good talk, “too black” could make it even more better.
LikeLike
Once again I stumble acrossed and article that has racist undertones. White men do not prefer anything other than what their mind and stimulation tell them. Nodody sets out looking for a Halle Berry and settles for Venus Williams or vice versa. I have dated women in all shapes, sizes and colors. I love the elegance of Chinese women, the submissiveness of Japanese women, the confidence of African women, the passion of Hispanic women, the romance of French women, the beauty of middle European women, the humor of English women, the perserverance of Arab women and the inner strenght of Native American women. I love a nice round butt, a tight little butt and the slender little butts. I am happy with breasts from AAA to EEE. I like full lips, thin lips and everything in between as long as she can kiss well. I love short hair, shags, long hair and afros. I like the silky smooth hair and the kinky and wooly hair. I love the mystery of the dark eyes, the fire of green eyes, the sparkle of blue eyes and the complexity of hazel eyes. I like big noses and small noses. The only thing I don’t like is a $h*()y attitude! Nothing on the outside matters it is just wrapping paper. I don’t know about the rest of you but although I appreciated the time my parents spent wrapping my presents and the beautiful paper and bows, I was interested in what was inside. The same with a woman. I want to get to know her and see what we have in common. I want to introduce her to things she has never tried and I want her to do the same with me. I remember the first time I tried chitlings and mustard greens. I didn’t care much for chitlings but I found I love the greens. All of my girlfriends taught me something whether about character, cultural history or ethnic cooking. Until I dated a Filapina I had no idea you could cook meat in a refrigerator with jalapeno juice. I look beyond color and religion, I want to know what lies in their heart and how good of a time we can have sharing life. It is too short to waste people. Bad things happened all through history to so many different types of people. There was a time not so long ago that the Irish were ranked lower than indians, blacks or chinese and look at our 36th president JFK. The world needs to get over their hang ups and learn to love all humans that don’t wish to harm anything. If you want an us against them type of world it should be us loving people against racists, anti religious groups, chauvanists, abusive people of both animals and humans, politicians especially ones who make the government officials rich while suppressing the people, the destroyers of the planet and so on. The problem is loving people don’t usually attack unless provoked. That is why the lost souls of the Muslim world enjoy attacking Christians, because they turn the other cheek. That is why they hate Jews, because they fight back. So that doesn’t get twisted by someone, I have read the Quran, the Torah and the bible. I have dated Muslim and non Muslim Arabs. True Muslims don’t believe in killing others of different faiths because they believe theirs is the true religion and it only hurts the one who doesn’t believe. They believe forcing someone into their religion does not make them religious. They believe, rightly so, Jihad is a war with evil in their own lives; lust, gluttony, pride, hate, sloth, greed and wrath not against non believers. Look around at the miracles of mother earth and how so many different things have been brought together to form our world. How can you not believe in GOD? Notice I said GOD and not religion. Put down your weapons, put down your holy books, put down your prejudices, get off your soap box and hug everything. Hug a tree, hug a dog, hug a horse, hug a Native American, hug that oriental man, hug that black woman, hug that old white man, help that elderly hispanic woman with her groceries and hug her. God gave us the ability to destroy the world but he also gave us the ability to save it. First step, FREEWILL, choose to do the right things. Second, RESPECT, respect other’s rights and ideals. Third and most important, LOVE, once you learn to love you can not destroy. That is why more people will be saved by GOD than anyone imagines. LOVE
LikeLike
well i’m a white guy (about as white as you can get) and I not only find black women more attractive and sexy but I prefer the ones in the second category over the ones in the first. I think all the stereotyping and “pigeon holing” is just that and all people are different depending on familial upbringing, religion, and the ethnics of their locale. Many primitive races have complex social and racial traditions and morals and consider the “white man” or “modern man” to be barbaric, so I would not be one to make any judgements. However, I would venture to say that it is all about the chemistry between any two people and if it gets your “Mojo risin” then GO FOR IT DUDE! rick rue
LikeLike
I live in Nigeria and crazy as this may sound, all my boyfriends have been white. The thing that they say they got attracted to was my petiteness, 36cup size boobs, light skin and intelligent talk.I have been asked more than 5times if I schooled abroad because I dont have a ”Nigerian accent”. I always wear weave-ons and one time I carried my natural hair, a particular boyfriend didn’t really like it much.
LikeLike
And I forgot to add..I absolutely love white men..Always prayed to marry one when I was a kid. Still hope that prayer gets answered. Still its important to know that when two people love, its not a black, red, or white person l;oving. Its just 2pple, 2hearts, with the same colour of blood in their veins
LikeLike
http://societynoir.blogspot.com/2008/01/black-royalty-mary-countess-von.html
That’s a link to the picture of Mary Countess von Habsburg of Austria, and her husband Ferdinand Leopold Joseph Count von Habsburg of Austria.
http://societynoir.blogspot.com/2008/01/black-royalty-mary-countess-von.html
That’s a link to a picture of Her Serene Highness Princess Angela of Liechtenstein, and her husband Maximilian Nikolaus Maria of Liechtenstein.
I think there are no norms when it comes to which woman of African ancestry a white man will marry. Just my opinion.
LikeLike
It was only online that I learned that white men supposedly aren’t attracted to Black women who look like me. While I suppose I do have the “cutsie-pie face” (I’ve been told by strangers on several occasions that I have a baby or “dollface”…believe me, it aint all it’s cracked up to be, as people often take me for a pushover), I’m not all that tall (I’m 5’4”); I’m curvy rather than reed thin; and have a light honey complexion rather than a chocolate one.
I’ve had more white (European, as well as American born) & Middle Eastern men to approach me than Black men; and more West Indian & African men to approach me than Black American men. There have also been a few South Asians, and I’ve even gotten a few shy smiles from East Asian guys.
Personally, race is less of an issue for me than national origins. And, though I tend to be somewhat nationalistic in other ways, I must admit that I’m least open to dating born & bred Americans of any race — from my own experiences they’re too anti-Black woman for my tastes.
LikeLike
charry says,
I think there are no norms when it comes to which woman of African ancestry a white man will marry. Just my opinion.
Parfum Bleu says,
I must admit that I’m least open to dating born & bred Americans of any race — from my own experiences they’re too anti-Black woman for my tastes.
laromana says,
charry,
I agree with you that “there are no norms when it comes to which woman of African ancestry a (NON-AMERICAN) white man will marry.
Parfum Bleu,
I agree with your sentiment regarding how ANTI-BW most American men are.
LikeLike
well i’m an AMERICAN (Born and bred) WM and i still think black woman (of all the “hues”) are some of the most attractive women in the world…I’d marry one, but I’m already married to a WW -lol
LikeLike
Parfum Bleu, I so agree with you on anti black women most Americans are.
@Rick – thanks! I believe there is so much anti-black in America, because of Black men. They do not support, uphold us in the media or real life like men of other races. This cause all other American men to scratch their heads and say well if Black men don’t want them, then why should I? I am not going to bash Black men, but its sad and its the root on probably why we having this discussion and all other discuss about the “beauty of BW”. If our own wouldn’t bash us based on hue and size then others would be open to see our beauty. I never heard a White man calling a brunette ugly based on her hair color. I am married to an American White man, who says I don’t get what these BM are bashing and luckily he didn’t listen to them.
LikeLike
Natalie says,
Its sad and its the root on probably why we having this discussion and all other discuss about the “beauty of BW”. If our own wouldn’t bash us based on hue and size then others would be open to see our beauty. I never heard a White man calling a brunette ugly based on her hair color. I am married to an American White man, who says I don’t get what these BM are bashing and luckily he didn’t listen to them.
laromana says,
Natalie,
I agree 100% with your above comments. ANTI-BW-BM are the MAIN reason that MOST(NOT ALL) American men of ALL races are ANTI-BW.
ANTI-BW-BM in America are the only race of men who PUBLICALLY trash the humanity/dignity/femininity of their SAME RACE women and also PROMOTE/CONDONE ANTI-BW HATE.
LikeLike
I am a black woman very attracted to white men. This is not to say that I am not attracted to any other race. I like men, period. However, i do have a close relationship with a white man, whom i call a dear friend, and he informed me that the reason he and his other white male friends tend to shy away from black women is because they see the stereotypical “black woman” through movies and that’s what they think we are all like. He said he sees movies like Madea’s Why Did I Get Married and movies where black women are “rolling their neck, and smacking their lips” and that’s what they assume most black women are like. I personally think that a book tends to be judged by it’s cover more times than not. I have a very curvaceous body, full lips and hips, and it has been said that the way i look would never seem to be the soft spoken and open minded person that I am. I think that when you appear to be those “in your face” women (in physical form according to stereotypes) then people tend to believe that this is who you are and therefore may turn off a white man.
LikeLike
Dear Sherenese,
Not all white men think that way. I find black women fascinating and intelligent and possessed of an emotional panoply of depth and variety. It is I think just the fear and fascination with the opposite. When I was young we were forbidden to pursue of even hang out with ANY black girls. The only way was to do it o the sly. There were zero black girls in my high school in Utah and the “other side of town” was dangerous to visit alone or even more so in a group…racial tensions and all that! When I finally DID get the chance after moving to California most of the black girls were like “Boy what you think a black girl wants with a WHITE boy!” which of course just made them all the more desirable 😉 Now I had TONS of white girlfriends and almost NO interest in them! Most of my friends thought I was nuts! Many of them were pretty HOT! But I couldn’t get that illusive “sister action” no matter HOW I tried… so maybe it isn’t at all like everyone thinks! Maybe w’all are totally HOT for y’all and just don’t know it LOL! Food for thought. XOXO rick
LikeLike
Well I am a guy who has been living in a virtually racism-free country since birth, and I think you’re trying too hard to generalise these black/white relationships. I find it hard not to see the beauty in all women around the world. I don’t think it’s as simple as you are trying to make it out.
LikeLike
As stated in the post this is merely what I have observed in and near New York – which is not quite the whole world.
LikeLike
a virtually racism-free country??? :-0
LikeLike
@Rick Rue
Sounds like you liked the thrill of the chase to me 😉 You ought to be careful your wife doesnt read your posts, the way you wrote your most recent one suggests a deep longing for BW that has been unfulfilled and I would be a bit miffed to see such fantasies in such vivid technicolour myself lol 🙂
I agree wholeheartedly with proudchocolategirl about the fact that it is not difficult to get any man of any race to sleep with you and that it is the respect thereafter that is the issue. The fact that many darent pursue BW romantically due to some deep seated fears/issues and WM not being able to look at BW without stereotyping.
LikeLike
proudchocolategirl says,
nah…see it’s not difficult to get a man of any race to sleep with you. if you really try, u can a man of pretty much any race to sleep with you, that never was and probably never will be the issue…the issue is that some white men do not respect black women enough to a.) pursue them romantically b.) treat them the same as they treat other non-black women c.) some white men just have trouble seeing black women as individuals, we are lumped together too much like we’re all the same and we’re not.
I find all of these issues tend to stem from the racism that SOME white men secretly harbor against black women, it’s a sexism/racism that some have against us…this is not the case for all white men and i can’t even speak for most white men, but it is unfortunately the case for some and some is too many.
laromana says,
I strongly agree with your comments. In my first hand, long term life experience as a BW in America, I’ve found that MOST American WM have been brainwashed to either be ANTI-BW RACISTS or ANTI-BW COWARDS. Either way MOST American WM definitely fit the 3 groups you mention and their attitudes/actions towards BW make it MORE difficult for BW than NON-BW to have serious dating/marriage relationships with them.
LikeLike
Rick and Rich,
Maybe MORE PRO-BW WM like you can help set the record straight about BW with the MANY WM who tend to believe ANTI-BW lies, myths, and stereotypes instead of treating BW like the beautiful, good, loving, intelligent INDIVIDUALS we ACTUALLY are.
LikeLike
I am a 62 yo while male, married to a Korean, who has also been with both white and black women. I would marry Sade in a heartbeat. Love her voice, and she has the face of a goddess. I like and appreciate black women. Their beauty is more natural. I dislike the skinny, almost emaciated supermodel look that is all to prevalent on TV. I have always prefered natural looking women – i.e., full breasts, hips, and a body with some substance to it. Black women have that and much, much more.
LikeLike
Abagon, I’d like to see you analyse another topic: Black women that like white men.
Meaning, which type of black women do you think, in general, like white men.
LikeLike
@AndyChow ,I like that idea.
LikeLike
Oh, I dunno. I used to think that Gabby Union was hot (which she undeniably is) but it turns out that she’s pretty unprincipled in her social life, stealing other women’s husbands right and left, just because she can. That makes her seem much less attractive, no matter how cute she may be. I no longer see her as beautiful now that I know that about her.
On the other hand, if she weren’t married, I’d date Aisha Tyler every day of the year because she’s brilliant and one of the funniest women in showbiz. That she’s stone gorgeous is great, but not the first things I think of when I think of her. And I’ll tell you something else: regardless of color, even a dazzlingly beautiful woman will become tiresome if she does not possess other appealing characteristics like empathy, intelligence, character, courage and a great sense of humor.
The point is that whether you’re black, white, brown or yellow, if your face is your fortune, you get poor in a hurry. What really draws white men and all of the other men to these cuties is not just their more delicate features, but their charm, wit and accomplishments. And speaking as a white guy, at least half of those sistahs you grouped as not being attractive to white guys in fact ARE.
Just like you, we are not as superficial, simplistic or racist as you might think. We are capable of seeing the value in people beyond their aesthetic gifts. As for the tendency to value the more delicate features of the lovely ladies in the first group of pictures, we do the same with white, Latina and Asian women. It has to do with a subliminal but very powerful instinctive response to value such facial features because they resemble those of children. It’s a response that helps humans survive by enhancing their affection for and thus protecting their offspring. It just happens to spill over to preferences in feminine beauty such that women with more delicate features tend to be preferred, whatever their color.
Even so, the fact remains that almost everyone gets mated with somebody, and they’re don’t all look like cheerleaders. Just visit a supermarket and you can see that while guys may drool over the actresses and supermodels, they generally end up marrying women who are more accessible in every sense.
LikeLike
proudchocolategirl,
White women say the same thing about white men all of the time, without the racial element. What you attribute to racial difference is just the way that most relationships don’t work out. Guys just don’t commit very easily in the main, no matter what the race of their paramour. You’d have pretty much the same experience of us if you were white. Most of the time, we’re dogs. Then, every now and then, we’re not . . . and then we get married. It’s a mystery why it is so, but it’s absolutely true.
LikeLike
Hi Jeff,
Refreshing to read your viewpoint Jeff – are you American?
LikeLike
Hmm interesting…I am a college student (Black female) and find this to be true to a certain extent. I have noticed even though i do not tend to pay white men much attention, although I wouldn’t mind dating one, that they seem to be somewhat attracted to me. People do say though that I look like Kerry Washington. I do agree on two things: 1) that they are attracted to women with a certain type of physique ( I am petite but not thin..I am slim but have the same curves as a curvy black woman). 2) Facial features: My face has been described as the “cutsie” type that you’ve mentioned BUT i do not have the smallest “button nose”. It just depends. I think it has a lot to to with attitude and the way a Black woman carries herself, more so than physical features. A lot of black men see me as innocent looking and frail with a soft tone of voice, but white men seem to appreciate this type of demeanor for some reason rather than the “in our face” bold type. Don’t get me wrong, I am however very opinionated and currently studying Political Science, but from observation that’s just my opinion
LikeLike
I just came across this blog and topic, and what started as just interest at the post changed quite a bit as I read through the majority of comments. Let me start by saying I am a 33 year old white man who has been married to my beautiful black wife for 8 years (counting dating we have been together 10 years). We have two beautiful children and a wonderful marriage and family life. I am not a blog/message board person so you will have to forgive me if I don’t know all the protocol that goes along with it.
First I do feel obligated to address the article that started these many comments. I was intrigued that the author was honest enough to address a perception that he saw played out differently in the real world that he was lead to believe. That stance is probably the only thing that has sucked me into responding, as most of what I have read has left me shaking my head and wondering about the future world of my children. Ultimately if I were to go though the two lists provided I would be split very close to 50/50 as to my personal preferences, but the key is personal preference. I understand that my views do not represent what culture tries to sell as beauty as I often find myself shaking my head at what to top 50 lists tell us are the most beautiful. Unfortunately we all do still buy into some of what is being sold to us, but if we saw many of these people on the streets we would pass by without even noticing. This goes right to the heart of this topic – we don’t know what individuals think. I understand trying to grasp concepts as a whole, but the problem is it is constantly changing.
I listed my current status as far as my immediate family, but my upbringing really shaped my world view (as I am sure is the case with most) and is important to understand my views. I grew up as in a multicultural church and private school. In that sheltered world, most of my friends were of different races and I naturally assumed the rest of the world had the same relational demographic that I experienced (even though I would later find out that was not reality even in some of the families I thought I knew). In that world I dated girls of different races and there really weren’t any qualms about it. While I my best friend was a BM (keeping in mind we both grew up in the same sheltered culture), there were no girls I knew that I was attracted to that were black until I was 17. Because of my sheltered upbringing, I entered in that 3 year relationship with no clue the repercussions I would face. Let me stop to first say that I am sure some of my sheltered views were my own naivety, and I am in now way arguing for a sheltered upbringing. However if I was to grow I had to face an honest evaluation of myself, especially in the light of what was obviously going to happen. My family had no problems with the relationship, but the other reactions I got from those I thought I knew shook me up a bit. I won’t go into details as I know there is nothing unique from what others experience and the shaking didn’t last very long as ignorance isn’t very attractive, but it was the first time I experienced some of the things that have been written in the messages here. As I said our relationship lasted for very good 3 years (life/schooling/work eventually drove us apart), and I was able to see many of the walls that were put broken down. Unfortunately too many people still live behind some of those walls.
That upbringing and my response to it have shaped my feelings about much of what has been talked about, and I readily accept that I still do have a “hopeful” viewpoint of most things. I understand that talking about these things brings light to differences. The problem lies in that these differences are cultural and societal differences, and they are not permanent. However, when we focus only on pigment somehow they become viewed as permanent. For example my sister has married a Norwegian man, and while he is a great guy the culture differences they faced have been much, much greater than my wife’s and mine. Society however tells us that my family’s differences should have been much more difficult; because skin color determines if we can truly work together (there was sarcasm there if it went unnoticed). I truly believe that while we need to acknowledge the obstacles that we face so we know how to address them, just focusing on them forces them to remain.
What that means to the legitimate questions that have been brought up:
1. If you are interested in someone of another race – talk to them! Stop letting society force your future and your hand. Rejection is the same regardless of color, if they are going to turn you away then they will. Yeah that sucks and it will stand out more to you because you stepped out of your comfort zone, but there is no difference. Schooling, work, interests all make it easier to break that ice, but they are not the only things that matter. You would be surprised how far just being friendly will go (trust me I was too good at this for my own good when I was younger – pickup lines are seriously overrated and for little boys).
2. I don’t think are interested in commitment, I won’t be someone’s one nighter. Good – you shouldn’t be that for anyone if you are looking for a relationship… here is a secret, it is not a good way to start any long term relationship. Despite what the movies say it doesn’t really work! The unfortunate reality is most guys are immature jerks (as an unbiased father of a gorgeous girl it’s amazing how clear this becomes), and searching for a good one regardless of color will be hard. You won’t get me to say one race is better than the other, because I don’t think that is true. Settling for the devil you know or the devil you don’t, doesn’t change the fact that you are settling for a devil. Find someone that deserves you – just don’t make color a determining factor! Attraction should matter, but unless you want to save money on sun block skin color should not (I did not marry my wife because she is black, her being beautiful… yeah that mattered allot).
3. How do I attract another race? Make your self available to them. Don’t change who you are, and don’t try to be what you think he likes (this blog post proves you probably won’t know what that is anyway, and being something other than you destroys any chance there is). In the BW/WM scenario being someone he can bring home to mom is very important (that’s one of the points where loud obnoxious is a huge turnoff, regardless of color – I know plenty of white girls who fit that description, and the vast majority are single… the others, well, they found a sucker), but mom will see through fake right away. If your color would stop him from bringing you home to mom, regardless of how great he seems, get away right away because he won’t say through the tough times.
4. attracts , what can I do if I don’t fit. Every guy has their own tastes, trust me there is no body type that is eliminated from any race! The things that are universally eliminated from bringing home to mom are the same, but body type is not in there… unless mom is a witch, in that case it sucks no matter what color you are!
5. What myths are out about BW/WM? Not really sure how to address this because there is a ton of things that get thrown out that I have never heard, but as I mentioned right away I did live a sheltered childhood especially in reference to race. I can say the things I heard after I started my first relationship. 1) BW only like WM in they can’t find a BM – I don’t want to be anyone’s 2nd choice (not sure how prevalent this is, but I did have one friend say that), 2) Worried about what family would say (as I mentioned if someone feels this way and won’t make a stand, they won’t fight for you ever – my advice is get away), 3) I’m just not attracted to BW. That’s it, all the rest of things I have never heard.
I am sure there are other things I am not remembering, but the crux of what I am saying is this – we must acknowledge differences, but then move on. Color should not stop you more than any other issue that arises when considering a relationship; count the costs and make your choice – don’t be paralyzed by it. After the 3 year relationship I talked about, I dated other races before finding my wife. Race was never the determining factor when I was looking for her, and didn’t matter when I found her. Who she is mattered, me being attracted to her mattered, my mom liking her mattered (call it trusting a women’s intuition);race only matters when I get a sunburn and she just shrugs her shoulders at me (seriously sunburn sucks)!
LikeLike
Well said astonished,
Some of the bits you have written resonate in terms of my relationship with my hubby. I never courted attention from primarily WM – I liked men…period lol. I met a few frogs before I met my prince but that probably helped me in fact cos the old man was a bit of a rough diamond initially but I saw the gem beneath that veneer.
Open mindedness is the key – not just in relationships but life in general IMO 🙂
LikeLike
yeesh… I typed that in Word so it all worded right. I must have accidentally cut some things out – sorry for the parts that don’t make sense, there was more there when I wrote it, I promise!
LikeLike
@Astonished
You got the point across thats the most important thing – not as a person who is trying to convert people to dating outside their race, but to show that not being bogged down by stereotypes and the like you were able to meet your mate and establish a happy and fulfilled relationship. Good for you :-0
LikeLike
Im a dark skinned African girl.have always been attracted to white guys ever since i was in high school.my first IR wasn’t that good since the guy wasn’t comfortable when we went out 2gether in public (as a couple).at first i thought he was just shy giving affection in public but then i noticed every time we held hands and we were in a crowd, he would let my hand go and then he would start walking fast leaving me behind and then when we got to a quite place or my house he wld be all lovely dovey. long story short I cldnt take it anymore so i ended things with him.after i ended things we calls me up asking for another chance and his excuse was he didn’t want people to judge him since he was dating a black girl.
where i came from,people date whoever they want black,white,yellow or even an alien for all i care.In America,its like society has to pick who you date/marry.i mean if the person makes you happy,why not be with them?is society or whoever person going to be with you when your fade up with your relationship/marriage?
As much as I’m attracted to white guys,I’m very careful to whom i open my heart too.
LikeLike
Isn’t it a pity that some simply lack the human decency and compassion to grant another respect, importance, beauty, life…! Really it is about human rights and tolerance because if one can rationalize treating their love that way, or the softer and more gentle sex, the “fairer sex” that way, then how would they treat other individuals, children, “strangers”…? Women of every race and age must be cherished and treated with the utmost courtesy and respect and decency because they are the door to the future (children) of the whole race. Black women of all hues have a deep and natural beauty all their own (as do whites, asians, hispanic etc). Their liveliness of spirit and strong sexuality are SO appealing! One has to wonder about just what kind of man would abuse that…one lacking in personal confidence, pride or lacking personally in some fundamental capacity or regard. I say black women of many sizes and colors are just plain sexy! I consider you wise bevthieta182 to open your heart carefully. Not every guy is really sentient! rr
LikeLike
Hello ya’ll
I am a white man who would usually prefer, the style of black women, mentioned in your second batch, in abiobe post, I always preferred women with a big butt, and more voluptuous or rubenesque over skinny, and I know tons of white men who would feel that way too, lets face it, when it comes to physical attraction, the “butt man”, always likes his women with a big juicy butt, and for me, they can be any race, but black or spanish is often one of the first pics, when it comes to “gorgeous ass”
with that said, I need to be attracted to the woman before it leads to a serous relationship, I will alwatys choose the woman who has a more noticeable rear end, so long as she is not a bimbo or a dummy, and she maye be black very often, sometimes puerto rican or dominican or cuban, sometimes white (especiallly some kind of mediteranean beauty, like italian or greek or portuguese), and rarely, asian.
R. Dubh
LikeLike
Get a life….o and this is coming from a white women.
LikeLike
If you don’t like what is being said here, take the simple way out and don’t read it. simply. move on
LikeLike
I am a white guy that did not look at the black women the way I should have. I don’t know why, but it never dawned on me to look at them as proper women. And then, years ago, when watching porn, I came across, by accident, a white man with a black woman. Without getting to nasty, just let’s say the pinkness opened me up big time, from then and VERY much since then. I then began to look at the black woman as a person. And then I noticed all the other beautiful things there. I guess I came to my senses from the deepest insides to the outside.
LikeLike
@Jason
Quite a revalation!
Tell me, when looking for a ‘mate’ do other males here picture the relevant female on their back first? Does the stirring in the loins have to happen first OR can/has/does attraction happen based on aesthetics/personality?
Whilst I appreciate sexual attraction and the activities therein in their place it is alarming to me, to think that any potential suitor was thinking about my sexual ability and prowess and physicality in such an intimate way juxtaposed with images of a porn star.
LikeLike
I can relate to this whole-heartedly:
I also wonder if as well that many BW seem comfortable in their own skin and whether that confidence is mistaken for arrogance and then comes across as being obnoxious and therefore a threat to (them in) their own insecurities?
Confidence can be extremely threatening to some people. Not sure what psychological pathology that falls under…’borderline’ comes to mind, but that covers a large spectrum of the so-called ‘personality disorders’!
LikeLike
@Bulanik
I think that some women may be quite alarmed or uncomfortable/upset knowing the inner workings of male sexuality.
I definately concur with that Bulanik. Dont get me wrong, I know its not all hearts and flowers but there is enough sometimes ‘self imposed’ pressure on women to resemble those that are represented in the media. To add to the next dimension where people engage in sexual activity for a living and have, for want of a better word, perfected their ‘activities’ to a fine art form for the pleasure of their viewers is another thing!
it should not be underestimated just how much this may affect a man’s perceptions of a woman he could like romantically – as well as his sexual tastes.
I’ll never forget being in a pub singing and two guys were stood watching in, I thought, appreciation of my voice. When I finished singing the song they came over to me and one guy said ‘I recognise you, you do ‘exotic dancing’ at such and such a place dont you?’ I put them straight though they did not seem convinced.
And there was me thinking that they liked my voice…. 😉
LikeLike
The Internet is such a wonderful thing! In the days when people needed a place to be ‘real’, it did not exist. It took me a while to read through this blog–quite interesting, and in many ways, refreshing. So, I’d like to join the convo and make a few comments.
For the guy WAYYY back who was rejected by the BW of his choice, reach out again! Given the chance, love finds a way to re-open the flower buds in our hearts.
For those who arrive at my post and still don’t understand the reason many BW could not, would not and therefore DID not seriously date a WM (with the intent of marriage), here is the reason explained to me by my mother.
Because of the relationships many BW were forced into in the times of slavery in the US, it was considered a betrayal/a slap in the face of the women who suffered unwanted sexual advances for a BW today to CHOOSE an intimate relationship with a WM. My grandmother’s grandmother was a product of such a relationship and she specifically told her grandchildren she did not want any blonde-haired blue-eyed grandchildren. (She got them anyway, because at that point in time, we hadn’t heard all of the stories and didn’t understand her reasoning.)
Unfortunately, during the 50s-60s the years of my childhood, too many families told their WM children something similar, In the religious environment of my teen years, WMs were told it was forbidden by God for races to mix. 40 years later there is a 60-year-old WM who lives with the pain of our broken relationship–broken by faculty who told him if we married our children would be spotted or striped. At 17 he knew nothing and sadly accepted their words as truth. (I didn’t learn they had given him that information until we found each other again after 40 years)
Fortunately for WM and BW in the US today, things have changed and are still changing. Notice the commercials, sitcoms and movies that put WM with BW? :People have decided to just love who they love. If you don’t like it…don’t bother those who do!
Yes, there are BM and WW who will look at you and who may sometimes make comments, but that has to be something that you deal with in your conversations. If we face this, this is how we will handle it. Everybody on the planet will not like everything you do with your life. Period.
@Astonished, because you and your spouse are solid, you will teach your children. The world we live in is not always kind. Accept that and BE kind. It is all you can do. There is plenty of diversity out there and they will be fine as long as they live from the love that got them here.
@Jason. SMH. Good on you to finally see BM as people, but what a way to get to that understanding! I HOPE that’s not the route MOST WM take. Many women resent being seen through a sexual lens FIRST, at all. And MOST people discover the personhood of people early in life by looking at pictures that show head, neck, arms, legs…you know…or by looking at a cut in the skin and realizing that only the top layer is different. 😀
Moving on.
In any relationship, it helps if you view life similarly. Crossing culture lines in relationships is frequently like crossing culinary lines in restaurants. You don’t know what food you will love if you never try anything besides Similac and rice cereal! 🙂
I have encouraged my daughters to look around and sample the once-forbidden fruit. My son sees the other fruit but has chosen the chocolate that is his mother–but accepts that his mother chose variety.
My youngest daughter follows my footsteps. She’s a country-western singing, boot-scooting boogie-ing, cowboy lover, who is hotly pursued by men of every nationality on the planet (and young to old). She is a short, dark-skinned, tiny-afro wearing 30-y-o beauty who looks 20 with a caboooose Apple-bottoms love to be seen on 🙂 and a southern drawl she can pull out of thin air as quickly as she can put on the SoCali western, or NY high society or down-wit-it home girl. She is comfortable in her skin and with her life–it shows and flows from her.
I say that to say this: BW, DO YOU! If the man you seek isn’t in your area, MOVE. Let the internet search for you. Never EVER settle for a relationship with any man who is not PROUD to be seen with you, to let the world know that out of all the women on the planet he CHOSE you! Cultivate and deepen your SELF and you will be surprised where love will sprout up. It will find you if you allow yourself to love outside of the box.
And, if you are not ready and able to stand looks and words of those who would make negative comments about your choosing him…spare him the pain of being diminished by your lack of confidence in your choice.
You have the right to choose. Surround yourself with like-minded people.
For the BW who felt limited by “church”–find a church where people go who know GOD the way you do and you will find a man who knows Him and His freedom of choice, too. Some of the most precious couples I know are the couples in their early 30s at my church who have found love WM/BW, ChineseM/BW , WM/SA, and the old couple WM/BW who found love (and kept it) in the decades when it was forbidden, Hint: Check out Minneapolis!
One of the saddest things I ever read was the lament of the BW on a singles website. She sought a relationship with a BM and none of them responded to her profile. They “all” wanted WW. The men who responded to her profile were WM and she was upset. “What is wrong with all of the BM on this site,” she wailed. My comment: Maybe God is trying to get you to realize that love comes in all kinds of wrappers. Maybe you should allow the men the freedom to love outside of the box and take that freedom yourself.
@Abagond…good 500 words the day you started this ball rolling!
LikeLike
@ Bulanik
Generally speaking, I think women are more conditioned to value love and romance over sexual perfection and performance. Moreover, especially with white men though not exclusively them alone, many black women seek and insist upon basic human respect – initially – over sexual attraction. I think a lot of women are conflicted about being perceived as serious, thinking people and simultaneously as sexual women.
Exactly!
It is about getting the balance right. The thing is though, you cant bank on the perceptions of others. e.g, say if I went out knee high boots and a little skirt. Most would understand by the way I conduct myself what kind of person I am. Others have their own view on what that means!
Obviously as women, as people even, we have our own set of morals and standards but when I hear comments like the one Jason made, it is discomfiting. It almost makes me think of celebrities who play a part on telly and then when they go out in to the real world, ordinary people think they are that person and emobdy that character wholeheartedly. They just dont get that this individual is an ‘actor’ and that they are ‘acting’ out a role.
On another level unwittingly Jason’s comments brought to the fore the historic interpretation of black women in the media where they were portrayed as prostitutes etc. I have just finished reading a book by Pauline Black from the SKA group Selecter where she states the following:-
There was a joke going around among black actresses when we met up at auditions in those days, which was to quip: ‘How many prostitutes have you played this year?’ White actresses probably only had to play one in their entire careers. It was tough fighting against the constant stereotyping of black actors by casting directors…’
I dont think I will ever understand how any man can talk about women in such an intimate and quite frankly crude way and think it would be complimentary but there will always be others who will. 🙂
LikeLike
Look, I really didn’t want to offend anyone, although it does not seem I succeeded… I was not taught to look at black people as a potential mate. And so, It never even dawned on me to look at black as beautiful or as anything for me. It came as an “accident”. It wasn’t as though I was looking for sex and found the woman. I wasn’t looking for anything really. But when I did notice the sex – and, boy did I notice it – I had no idea what I was missing. And so I ventured to find out… That was a few years ago. And, my gosh, how my eyes were opened. A black woman, in all facets, takes me to places I fantasize about…. They’re the complete package! – Jason
LikeLike
@Jason, your position is understandable–when you state your lack of “teaching”. (The unexpected frankness of the way you worded your journey kind of created a “YIKES!” moment.)
Now the question is, after years of venturing with open eyes, have you progressed beyond fantasy to reality? It kind of seems that you may have. : ) When a black woman truly understands and appreciates herself and her place of power, she IS the complete package–she is life and a man can lose himself in her depth. (Yeah, I said that! 🙂 )
May your journey be more than fulfillment of fantasies.
LikeLike
@AKS
(The unexpected frankness of the way you worded your journey kind of created a “YIKES!” moment.)
Precisely! It also left me thinking, ‘hang on a minute, would he express his desire for a white woman with such a graphic and intimate depiction?’ And therein lies the thought mode behind my responses following your post. I appreciate that you have alluded to the fact that this is a ‘new’ venture for you and as others have queried, I dont know whether this has translated in a ‘real’ sense in to your life but – and I dont want to preach, the reality is that there is often nothing more than a stigmatised sexulised element to WM interest in BW and whilst this is more than OK for two consenting parties, I do tire of it being more widely thought that BW are not worthy of anything more than a f*ck to satifsy curiosity.
Meanwhile I am not immune to the power of attraction that a BW has on men either 🙂 . I’m not surprised you became enlightened to the ‘charms’ of BW and maybe as you so desire and if you havent already, you will meet your ‘mate’ and all of your fantasies will be realised…
LikeLike
@ BulanikI believe that a lot men when young and inexperienced, do first learn about sex through sexual imagery/pornography in popular culture.
Very true. Lost count of the amount of porno mags flying around even in my year or boys drawing crude images of girls 😉
I thinks this leads many of them to base their very wrong ideas about women and sex from these sources because most pornography promotes untruths not just about women and their feelings and sexuality, but about men and theirs.
This is such a difficult time for young adolescents when they are at odds with how they will make their way and define themselves in the world and the rate/growth and development of their bodies therein. Curiosity can start from an early age (I remember adventures in the Wendy House and playing Kiss chase with one willing participant) and continues from there. It is examined in a biological sense watching something like ‘Living and Growing’ where it is textbook sexual explanations. If you are lucky and are not brought up in an inhibited household with no morals, you will gain a healthy appreciation and understanding of what goes on behind closed doors/under the covers.
As I said before, a lot of men seem to arrive at love through sex.
As I also implied earlier, intense sex-fantasy and romantic feeling often sit side-by-side in the minds of many men without contradiction or conflict. Of course a man can respect and love a woman and ALSO think of her in the rawest of sexual ways.
And most men I know always maintain they are such simple creatures lolol 🙂
LikeLike
It seems as though I have ruffled some feathers here. Although, I honestly had no such intentions…. Anyway, in response to all your queries: On the very day my eyes were opened, someone texted me. It was intended to be sent to a different number, but somehow came to me. In the meantime, though, I started chatting. It turns out, this was a BW, and I just knew this was a sign. We met the next night, and it was instantaneous… all night long… I had never experienced anything like it. I thought I was in heaven. For the six beautiful months we stayed together, I learned so much from her in so many areas in life. Her family, though – especially her grandmother – was applying pressure on her to leave for racial issues, and we just couldn’t continue it.
Since then, I have dated white and black women. I have found in my limited experience that black woman have a stronger sense of dominance, but when it comes to sex they – the ones I have been with – have been totally into it, and loyally really, really aim to please (don’t want to get too graphic and cause more trouble here…). This is why I say they are the complete package. Of course, this is no scientific experiment. It’s just my observation.
Today, the love of my life is a woman whose both parents are products of a bi-racial relationship. This is a ‘chocolate-vanilla’, and is delicious….
LikeLike
@Jason,
Joy of Sex – the manual. Ever heard of it? Sounds like you could make some significant contributions to the millenium version lol
It seems as though I have ruffled some feathers here. Although, I honestly had no such intentions….
You havent ruffled my feathers in this sense and by that I mean you havent made me feel uncomfortable due any prudish inhibitions I may have about sex. I am a happily liberated woman – trust me but I am also mindful that this is what it is – the world wide web and, I will confess as a happily married woman I dont feel the need to justify or enlighten people on how I keep my hubby very, very very happy 🙂 lol.
Joking aside, I am concerned that you still dont seem to get WHY I responded as I did to your post. Fair enough if you dont want to engage in discussion about WHAT I was saying, maybe you are not experienced in this way, maybe its beyond you or maybe you really couldnt give a stuff 🙂 but do you understand that it was little to do with the content of your post itself and everything to do with the fact that this is the first thing that you noticed on a BW that made you perk up and become interested in them – I hope you get what I am saying.
Anyway, I will leave it there. Remember, variety IS the spice of life. Enjoy 😉
LikeLike
@Bulanik
Perhaps you’ve already seen it,
I haven’t had the time to read the whole thread through myself as yet, but it looks quite interesting in the light of issues raised by Jason, and – crucially – it’s from a black woman’s perspective.
No I havent Bulanik but I will check it out – see you there 😉
LikeLike
@Demerera, Jason, Bulanik and AKS
Reading all of your posts truly entertaining and enlightening. That Jason’s experience was what it was and resulted in the awakening that it did fascinates , though it is curious to me Demerera that you view it the way you do. Surely if Jason had awakened to the “virtues” of WW after having an exclusive experiential past with BW and it had come about through their sexuality it could just as easily be considered that he viewed them in an objectifying way first before becoming aware of them humanistically and as sentient beings as opposed to sexually. In fact it appears that this entire blog surfs all around this one simple point: judging by spirituality vs sexuality. I am a WM and have been married to a WW for many years, but I also have numerous close friends and acquaintances that are BW and several are VBW (VERY black woman). Their intellectuality impresses and even wows while their sexuality is magnetic. Of course I have no sexual involvement but they are utterly delightful friends of undoubtedly comparable (or greater) magnitude, and their warmth as human beings is impressive. I have found that BW are more open and readily show compassion, acceptance than WW to strangers but there are always the exceptions to every rule! Their worlds are a curiosity to me as my upbringing allowed for no interracial interaction. It appears to me that there are a variety of differing viewpoints paralleling a variety of differing experiential histories. The value of this blog is to provide a common ground to broaden reality and perspective. My opinion is that BW are considerably delightful and highly desirable creatures!
LikeLike
@Rick Rue
That Jason’s experience was what it was and resulted in the awakening that it did fascinates , though it is curious to me Demerera that you view it the way you do. Surely if Jason had awakened to the “virtues” of WW after having an exclusive experiential past with BW and it had come about through their sexuality it could just as easily be considered that he viewed them in an objectifying way first before becoming aware of them humanistically and as sentient beings as opposed to sexually.
But he didnt Rick. His awakening to BW came after watching porn as he stated here. I dont know how much you explore this forum but many of the posts on here show how BW are not always embraced in wholeistic terms but have been historically and sometimes still are seen as a mere sexual fantasy/diversion for some WM. The fact that Jason initially talked about the link between his desire/appreciation stemming from seeing BW in porn movies and then his graphic description therein was a little discomfiting. The link between the TWO things Rick, the porn and the so called ‘pink bits’ where BW were concerned. Certainly NOT that he finds looking at womens genetalia a turn on – each to their own I say, nor that he finds BW sexually irresistible – I cant say I blame him lol, but, historically the overwhelming reality has been that BW are good for extremely sexual creatures but not good for much else. I will put it in quite blunt terms. In my locality, growing up, there was a saying amongs white men that ‘you’re not a man til you f*ck a tan’. The idea being you get and build up a great deal of sexual experience with said ‘tan’ female but when it comes to a real loving relationship, its time to move back to your own race.
If you look back, you will see that since my intial post, Jason has responded with his own posts and comes across as quite a sensual guy 🙂 . Clearly I was not aware of that from his first post and responded accordingly. Hope this clarifies things Rick 🙂 – very little else I can add if not but I do suggest that perhaps you follow the link that Bulanik attaches above….
LikeLike
Demerera says,
I dont know how much you explore this forum but many of the posts on here show how BW are not always embraced in wholeistic terms but have been historically and sometimes still are seen as a mere sexual fantasy/diversion for some WM. The fact that Jason initially talked about the link between his desire/appreciation stemming from seeing BW in porn movies and then his graphic description therein was a little discomfiting. The link between the TWO things Rick, the porn and the so called ‘pink bits’ where BW were concerned. Certainly NOT that he finds looking at womens genetalia a turn on – each to their own I say, nor that he finds BW sexually irresistible – I cant say I blame him lol, but, historically the overwhelming reality has been that BW are good for extremely sexual creatures but not good for much else. I will put it in quite blunt terms. In my locality, growing up, there was a saying amongs white men that ‘you’re not a man til you f*ck a tan’. The idea being you get and build up a great deal of sexual experience with said ‘tan’ female but when it comes to a real loving relationship, its time to move back to your own race.
laromana says,
Demerera,
Thanks for your excellent/insightful comments.
I believe that it’s critical that ALL men (especially American men) understand that, in America, ALL men have historically been BRAINWASHED to be A–h—-s to BW by DEMEANING/DEGRADING/DISRESPECTING their humanity, dignity, and femininity.
This is why, MANY American men, to this day, have trouble viewing/treating BW like FULL HUMAN BEINGS/NORMAL/INDIVIDUAL WOMEN.
LikeLike
Thank you, Demerera! I appreciate your kind words… Listen, I will say this again: I was not looking for a black chick when watching porn. I had no interest in a BW at all. I came across it by accident. And I was amazed. This led me to think about getting to know a group of women I never really considered as partners. And the next day she came to me in the form of a wrong number text message! How unusual is that? When we met, I was instantly drawn by her magnetism. Her eyes were so captivating, her smile melted my heart, and her intelligence captured the rest of me. She had me completely – and that was before even seeing her external beauty, body, and so forth, and before her sensual touch… Gosh, she was so soft, yet so firm. I cannot explain it with any more detail as not to get any more graphic than I already am… Within a couple of hours, we had connected with searing and intense heat… And stayed that way until we had to break up six months later. There was no doubt in my mind that we would have gotten married.
This was my first time with a BW and it was her first time with a WM.
After this experience and the subsequent six glorious months, I have learned to deeply appreciate – and to associate – with BW. And my life has been all the better for it…
Yes, I know I came to all this through the wrong way (I didn’t want to say back door…), but, heck, I came, I came! I have arrived…
LikeLike
Hi Laromana
@laromana says,
Demerera,
Thanks for your excellent/insightful comments.
I believe that it’s critical that ALL men (especially American men) understand that, in America, ALL men have historically been BRAINWASHED to be A–h—-s to BW by DEMEANING/DEGRADING/DISRESPECTING their humanity, dignity, and femininity.
This is why, MANY American men, to this day, have trouble viewing/treating BW like FULL HUMAN BEINGS/NORMAL/INDIVIDUAL WOMEN.
Lets hope that by engaging in discussions we can begin to penetrate the mindset and dispel the myths that have historically gone before.
LikeLike
@Jason
Gosh, she was so soft, yet so firm. I cannot explain it…………
You make this seem like such a surreal experience that I am intrigued – do you feel there is a difference in the way that different ethnicities are in a sexual sense? Surely women are much of a muchness arent they?
….. I have learned to deeply appreciate – and to associate – with BW. And my life has been all the better for it…
How has this enriched your life Jason? From a biased perspective of course I can think of many things 🙂
LikeLike
I regularly come back to this article because it is OH SO INTERESTING…it’s good to come back and read any new and developing thoughts on this. I am in the second category. I am curvy, would be described a thick by many, when I gain weight it is in the butt and thighs. When I am very slim I am still very curvy. I am West Indian, long face, high cheekbones, dark skin, very full lips, neither skinny or wide nose…somewhere in the middle…slanted eyes…weird facial structure….think of the movie pocahontas lol and I’ve actually been called that lol. For the most part I’ve noticed that who I attract is dependent on my style a the time. Older WM appreciate me in my very natural state….thick, curvy, natural hair/or braids/or very curly wig…..they like the kind of ‘traditional featured’ black woman. Younger WM around my age, 22, or so….don’t seem into me that much. I might get a glance of interest from them but they won’t follow up. I do think that BM for the most part seem to be open to anything if you ask me, but it really depends on what they want from you. If it’s sex, it doesn’t really matter. If it’s serious relationship/marriage…then typically a girl like me is passable but not the best option. They would prefer long straight hair, lighter skin, slim and curvy but not too much. They are not keen on natural hair though….I get zero attention from them in this state. They will notice my body then look at my hair and say HELL NO.
But there’s another dynamic that should be considered. And that is the realm online dating. I’ve realized that WM around my age do entertain thoughts of BW but perhaps it’s something they have to work up to or something. I have begun online dating because I feel like I should expand the realm of possibilities. So far I’ve been approached typically by African BM…I will separate them from African American BM. An African BM regardless of age, will tell me I’m gorgeous and marry me in a heartbeat, be it online or in everyday life, but they tend to be have bias for West Indian women. An african american BM would say I’m sexy but AITE lol in the looks department and… more likely be interested in sex. This is the pattern I see and exceptions are rare in my experience. As for WM and me, online I get all types of WM, older younger, upper class, middle class, working class…..I notice what makes a BW more appealing to them is charming personality and intelligence. So I realized if WM are approaching me ONLINE then they must be willing to approach me in everyday life except something holds them back, maybe they don’t know how to approach…or maybe in everyday life it seems less feasible. Not sure. Hm.
LikeLike
I will never understand why a black person would want to be with white person. This topic irks me.
LikeLike
@ Nana, because it’s obvious that it gives a certain “status”. As of someone who lives in Scandinavia I’ve seen the same here, but those black women who marries a white man usually marries into wealth and then she usually goes head over heels in wearing clothes that really shows off that she has married rich. Those clothes may not be of good taste, sorry to say.
LikeLike
Nana, why not?
Of course, there is a difference between going for white, and just discovering that the white color offers a greater diversity locally and finding your match (colorblind dating, so to say).
LikeLike
I Would not say that. Depends on the white GUy. Am a black girl with a white guy in NY.AND I am definitely not thin. I Have some stuff in the back of my trunk. lol, with small waist. And i definitely dont have any white features. I see white guys alot with girls with natural look alot, do not know why though. But i have noticed that when i was in High school and i had long hair, black and even spanish guys were going crazy. As soon as a cut my hair and went natural i notcied that all of a sudden, white men were approaching me, asking me to dinnner. Actually the first guy who asked to bring me to dinner when i first came to America was white. BUt was not interested i was way to young to be dating.
LikeLike
@Ping
yea I feel sorry for women like that. The devil has done a great number on my people.
@ Teddy
I am okay with interracial dating as long as it is NOT between a black person and a white person. That is just… all sorts of WRONG, in my personal opinion of course. But i do realize this is something that cannot be stopped, unfortunately.
LikeLike
Hi everyone,
I’m new to the forum as I stumbled across it tonight. I have a question for all of you but I think it’s important if I describe some of my personal details.
My parents passed away when I was a child and I grew up with a white family. I am dark skinned, thin and have always been taunted by my unusually large bust in comparison to the rest of my body. I have only ever connected with white people and have never dated a black man, yet I have dated white men, Iranian, philippianos, and one east indian. I have a university education and I work in the legal profession. I have never been able to connect with a vast majority of black women or men as I used to be teased as a child and called “oreo”.Till this day, I experience scrutiny and dirty looks from members of the black community for the way I look, dress and speak. It’s unfair that I have to constantly go through life with people questioning the degree of my blackness. In my opinion, the colour of my skin is but one attribute to who I am as a person. I have no problem dating white men as I feel more comfortable around them and I think it is unfair and ignorant for people to claim that it is wrong for blacks and whites to have romantic relationships.
LikeLike
My question is, why is it so difficult for black women to be accepted by other black women and men if they are perceived to be just a little bit different? Why does it seem that people in the black community tear each other down when they know nothing about their personal circumstances and preferences for other races?
LikeLike
As a white male I fine dark black skin the most Gorgeous. On looks alone I would date a “Jill Marie Jones” long before a “Beyonce” even though both are Beautiful. A Beautiful Woman is a Beautiful Woman whether it’s a Black Women with dark skin or fair skin. Re Black hair I can’t explain why but I prefer Black Women with natural hair. And finally, on intelect, that’s always very important regardless of race.
LikeLike
As a white male I “fine” dark black skin the most Gorgeous.
And finally, on “intelect,” that’s always very important regardless of race.
– lol
– and smh at the incredible irony …
LikeLike
Bulanik said “I am interest to know what are the “all sorts of WRONG” in your opinion with dating between a black and white person?
And, could you tell me what you think about the children that are sometimes produced from these black-white relationships?”
to the first question-….. to many WRONGS for me to list here.
to the second question- to me, they are just a reminder of something that wasn’t suppose to happen.
@Jamaican-Canadian-Irish Girl
you are a lost cause….
LikeLike
@Nana
Forchrissakes, please do give it a try at least. Sheesh. How lazy can one be?
LikeLike
@ Nana,
I am loathe to respond to your comment and for wasting any more words than I already have writing this sentence, but since I am new to the forum I will only say this: it’s unfortunate that you view me as “a lost cause.” I am deeply saddened and disappointed to learn that this is the view that I will always have to confront. I only hope that you can realize that people, regardless of their preference for intimate relationships, still are people and like ALL people only want to be accepted based on who they are.
Abagond, what do you think?
LikeLike
Did someone hurt you or something because you sound really silly for calling mixed kids a lost cause. The last time i checked, people have the right to date who they want. It is their love n their privates. Americans need to grow the hell up. Where am from we do not try to look at things as black n white. Love is love. You love who loves you who u have in common with. Skin color differences is not a valid argument.
LikeLike
calm down people, its just my opinion. I just don’t think these 2 races should mix. @ Bulanik the answer is right in front of your face. If you need hints, read abagond’s blog, read a history book, observe the world around you.There are many many many reasons why I think black people should avoid any type of ‘intimate’ relationships with these people. The answer is too complex for me to type here, besides if you were truly black you would get it.
@ Jamaican-Canadian-Irish Girl
you know what, I apologize for sounding a bit cruel. I just want to know a few things. How do you approach these people? Why do you think they treat you the way they do?
@ wendy
I didn’t say mixed kids are a lost cause. I said they are a reminder of something that wasn’t suppose to happen.
“Where am from we do not try to look at things as black n white. Love is love. You love who loves you who u have in common with. Skin color differences is not a valid argument.”
you watch too many movies.
LikeLike
This Nana sounds more and more like some of the white guys around here. Note the use terms like “these people” and “these races should not mix”. Sounds familiar, right? 😀 What was the word that one guy used? Mongrels? Yeah, riiiiiight…
LikeLike
sweet heart am from St. Lucia. am not from the USA. WE all go to the same school and live in the same neighborhoods if you could afford it. I experienced racism and separatism when i first came to America and i didn’t understand why people who live in the same country hate each other, but hardly know anything about each other. But yet again each Caribbean country is different. I heard in Places like Trinidad and Jamaica it is bad. And also, bi-racial children tend to be more favored in those islands. it is the reverse there.And Americans seem to find it shocking when Bi-racial children are considered white. And don’t forget that not all white people are responsible and owned slaves. There were many who aided and hid slaves in their houses, in the underground railroad. So, generalizing and putting all white people in one category is unfair. there were, and still are good ones out there. IF so, then it is right to say that all black people are stupid,monkey, uneducated,lazy people on welfare?
LikeLike
@ bulanik ah you are a mulatto. I don’t think I need to explain anything to you anymore…
and @ sam and bulanik I am not a white man, I am a black women and I have said nothing that encourages hating on any race.Stop making up stuff.
@ wendy *sigh*
1 question to all of you… whats wrong with separatism?
LikeLike
correction -* black woman. sorry I was typing too fast. 🙂
LikeLike
YOu are wrong for telling people who to date. Do what the hell you want but, i never realized that i was guaranteed to any man, especially a black man? ANy to tell u the truth, all the good black men are taken or older. Am 21 and the younger generation is a are not a grateful as the older generation. so, my philosophy is, why wait for some “black prince charming” to come who let us face it would ever come, and look for a “prince charming.” and for the separationist thing, didn’t you learn anything from Jim crow?
LikeLike
Hmmm,
I dont reckon nana is who he/she claims to be. I will be equally evasive here and say too many things dont add up….suffice to say its odd that he/she has the same values as another ‘separatist’ individual that has cropped up on other blogs on here.
LikeLike
“I’m wondering what kind of black “women” (yes, we are talking about you) would choose to lurk around a blog like this only to hide behind cowardice?”
I am so confused. lol. I am a black female.I love my people. I have respect for my culture, my ancestors, and for myself and if you were a black person who share the same respect for the things i mentioned, you would understand why I disagree with interracial relationships between the 2 races.I’ll never understand why anyone would want to get involved in any type of ‘intimate’ relationship with their enemies.
but hey, you can believe whatever you want to believe sweetheart. I don’t care.
I will always stand by what I say. I don’t think the 2 races should mix. That’s my own personal opinion and there is nothing anybody can do or say to make me think otherwise. Don’t worry Bulanik, no more questions. I’m out of this thread.
🙂
LikeLike
@Bulanik (or maybe you are Mulanik now)
I suppose it’s part of Nana’s cultures to run away and not wanting to engage in debates like proper adults. Being judgemental is far easier. It does not hurt your brain like thinking does. Low pain threshold? Lol
😛
LikeLike
People will date/marry whomever they please. At the end of the day it all boils down to who is interested in being there for you and caring for you. Perhaps there is a person who respects you, shares similar values, shares similar interests, but is outside of your “cultural background”? So what.
Also there is only one race that exists, the human race. There are however, a variety of cultures that exist in the world. I wish the term “racism” was discontinued from the English language and replaced with the world “skin-tone-ism”. Perhaps if we make the term sound more ridiculous, ignorant people might realize how ridiculous it really is? Essentially, the root of xenophobia towards other cultures began with the difference in skin tone and lifestyle. I disagree with the generalizations that have stemmed from this conversation and I encourage dating outside of one’s cultural background. I think the integrity of a person should be dealt on a case by case basis, not based on generalizations, stereotypes, and skin tones or “features”.
As a black woman I feel that the “yes” and “no” list as a very flimsy theory. Abagond, I realize that you mean well, but I feel that the list is a bit trivial and your energy could be better directed on more critical matters of the day. Dating and marriage all boils down to personal preference of the individual and love. Both of which cannot be quantified and are difficult to assess.
LikeLike
It really frustrates me that you still perpetuate the misconception that there’s a “white” and “black” way to act.
LikeLike
@ dee
You are right. I took it out.
LikeLike
I’m white, my girlfriend is black, I’m from Chicago. I would disagree with pretty much everything you said regarding what I would look for in terms of beauty in a black woman. For me it’s as simple as who I’m attracted to. And while I may have certain preferences, they are by no means absolute and if (god forbid) I break up with my girlfriend (who I think is probably the most beautiful woman I’ve ever seen) there’s a good chance my next girlfriend would look nothing like her. Also in response to all the talk about whether or not interracial dating and marriage is even ok: have you’re own opinions that’s fine, but I think I can definitively say from a logical standpoint that there are no good reasons why two people of different skin color should not date, and about a hundred why they should (if they’re into each other). I mean I get that it makes you uncomfortable or you have some idea of it spoiling the culture or however you’d like to word it, but emotions don’t make for very good arguments when it comes to whether something is right or wrong. Date who you want to date, love who you want to love. Let’s not perpetuate the past few thousand years of “you’re different so we can’t be friends” kind of mentality that has led to so many tragedies.
LikeLike
I would disagree with pretty much everything you said regarding what I would look for in terms of beauty in a black woman.
He isn’t writing about you in particular, but some white men who like black women.
if (god forbid) I break up with my girlfriend
If you break up with your girlfriend you will stop getting regular leg over also!
LikeLike
I know he wasn’t, and I wasn’t writing about all white men; just me in particular. And that I disagree lol that’s all.
And yes I will. Luckily that’s not as important to me as having a good relationship in general though, rather than just having good sex. 😛
LikeLike
Luckily that’s not as important to me as having a good relationship in general though, rather than just having good sex.
I hate these metrosexual men! No man in his right mind forgoes a good leg overs, the palm sisters don’t count!
LikeLike
@Bulanik/Herneith
You mean Mrs Palm and her 4 lovely daughters, right?
Who or what is this about?
LikeLike
Black/White Interracial relationships make me feel uncomfortable because of the idea prevalent in society that White men/women are the epitome of human attractiveness and goodness, so when I see them together it makes me feel like the Black person is somehow validating this idea. It feels like they are massaging the gargantuan ego of White people. Since most White people are racist to some some extent then most of the people these Black people are having sex and relationships with are probably racist too and associate them on some level with apes. I’ve read a few accounts of White people saying they imagine their partners are their slaves with a chain around their neck and manacles on their wrists when they are having sex with them.
Closer to home I know someone who has a child with a White women and she has other mixed race children with other men. Anyway one day they were in an argument over something and she calls this guy a “Black bastard” to the top of her voice in front of his mixed race son and his son’s mixed race friends in the middle of the street. She is also always playing games with this guy about getting to see his child. I think this woman’s problem is that she has low self-esteem and so when this Black guy wasn’t as into her as she expected “after all he should be grateful to be in a relationship with me a white woman the epitome of female beauty goodness and desirability” it infuriated her and cut her to a her core “I lowered myself to go with a nigger and even he doesn’t want me”
I suspect low self-esteem on the part of the woman is the basis for a lot of Black men/White women mixed race relationships here in England. I saw a White woman on the Queen Latifah chat show say when she had low self-esteem and was fat she used to date Black men but now she’s lost weight and she feels better about herself she now only dates White men! This woman had the arrogance and audacity to go on a Black woman’s chat show and say that.
Given the White supremacist environment they are raised in from birth the White people in these interracial relationships with Black people have to feel superior to them on some level especially as they will have had the message that they are superior reinforced by seeing their partner subjected to slights and humiliation that they themselves will have been spared.
LikeLike
@Robert
it infuriated her and cut her to a her core “I lowered myself to go with a nigger and even he doesn’t want me”
That may be one of the reasons but there are multiple other things going on here too I suspect. What about the part that she as a WW has been taught, as you point out, that they are the epitome of beauty and that all men desire me yet he has the gall to go off with ‘her’. OR, the most basic and simplest of them all – he’s hurt me and I want to hurt him too.
Since most White people are racist to some some extent then most of the people these Black people are having sex and relationships with are probably racist too and associate them on some level with apes. I’ve read a few accounts of White people saying they imagine their partners are their slaves with a chain around their neck and manacles on their wrists when they are having sex with them.
Any decent and discerning person who dates period, will generally look for someone who shares things in common with them. Another thing you would want is someone who is interested in you and your background as this forms part of who you are as a person and in many cases, a significant part.
If I were from Scotland and early on a man I was dating alluded to the fact that he disliked elements of scottish ‘culture’ and went on in a stereotypical fashion about the Scots being stingy etc and if I wasnt clear whether or not this was some kind of joke that was starting to get a bit old then its time to address it and nip it in the bud and in some cases, kick the idiot to the kerb, especially when they start saying things like ‘yeah but you’re not like other Scottish people are you, you’re different’!!!!
The problem you describe is when you fall in ‘lust’ with someone and the sex is so damn good and as part of a natural progression you then get ‘involved’ in other aspects of each others lives. I guarantee that these elements can and often will rear the ugly heads as you have not got to know that individual well enough in the first place. I too have witnessed what you say here Robert and I can tell you, in these instances, the situation that I just described is the precursor to what the relationship becomes – a bitter and angry female who is often left ‘holding the baby’ whilst the man goes off and finds some other willing partner.
Given the White supremacist environment they are raised in from birth the White people in these interracial relationships with Black people have to feel superior to them on some level especially as they will have had the message that they are superior reinforced by seeing their partner subjected to slights and humiliation that they themselves will have been spared.
I think you give BP far too little credit here. Of course, there can and will be exceptions to every rule but, if you are raised right/learn from lives experiences and have a wholeistic and are content with your ‘sense of self’ then you will be able to make reasoned, rational choices. It is when there is some element of your ‘identity’ is ‘off kilter’ either from experiences or nurturing that you will make potentially bad or unwise choices. I see an example of this in my friend who is estranged from her black mother, she exclusively dated WM and is now married to one but is continually questioning how he feels about her as a BW. It has been compounded now they have a child together and she said that as the child is fair and ambiguous looking, he labels the child ‘white’ though she clearly is not. They live in a predominatly white part of the world so whilst it shouldnt be an issue, unfortunately it will be at some time in their lives if they are not careful. Knowing the scant, and quite franlky, irrational details of the fall out the crux of this issue is, that I suspect that part of her fall out with her mother is to do with not coming to terms with this part of her racial identity and being the only child of colour at school and being alienated due to her skin tone. I think she, on some level blames her mother for this but cant quite reconcile this on a rational level. What I have also reminded her about is the fact that her hubby must have been attracted to her ‘blackness’ on many levels – there is no way this woman could ‘pass’ and in their situation I dont think all hope is lost – as he has grown up with no cultural diversity he may need to be made more aware of things but, I would say that she would not be in a position to do it alone and that intervention would be definately needed.
LikeLike
@Bulanik
The palm and 4 or 5 fingers.
It’s joke-euphemism that describes masturbation.for men.,
Oh, the old 5 knuckle shuffle, lol
LikeLike
I’m really surprised at Robert’s comment:
Honestly, who in their right mind uses day time t.v talk shows to support their argument? Say Robert, let’s ring up Maury Povich and Gerry Springer to get ridiculous responses from their panelists too? The caliber of people that volunteer to “air their business” on daytime talk shows tend to be lacking in education, lacking in class, and lacking in common sense(across all ethnicities). Maybe that person on that trivial show does have issues but you can’t make generalizations of an entire demographic based on one statement/action of a person.
Robert doesn’t want to see any “mixing” point blank. It makes him “feel uncomfortable.” Well then look in the other direction and turn off your television Robert b/c it won’t stop on your account. Or perhaps Robert should just stay at home and never leave? There are people out there that do date outside their own ethnicity and it has nothing to do with a “low self esteem/superiority complexes”. Some people actually date outside their ethnicity b/c they’ve found mutual respect, shared values, philosophies, education, etc.
LikeLike
I migrated from the Caribbean to the U.S, after some time, I noticed that the white men here have issues respecting black women. It’s easy to say black people have a lot of racial baggage because we talk about race, after all, this ranking system was created to abuse brown skinned people but whites (Americans especially) also have this baggage in varying degrees. If you’re “race aware” black person, white Americans who can truly handle that in a mature, honest, way seem to be like unicorns. I’ve met one white man who wasn’t afraid to “go there” (refreshing isn’t a suitable word) and he’s not American, he’s Serbian, that guy was just trippy and out there in general.
LikeLike
I’m all that!
LikeLike
@Hannu
I’m all that!
We know sweetheart, we know 🙂
LikeLike
“Honestly, who in their right mind uses day time t.v talk shows to support their argument? Say Robert, let’s ring up Maury Povich and Gerry Springer to get ridiculous responses from their panelists too? The caliber of people that volunteer to “air their business” on daytime talk shows tend to be lacking in education, lacking in class, and lacking in common sense(across all ethnicities). Maybe that person on that trivial show does have issues but you can’t make generalizations of an entire demographic based on one statement/action of a person.”
Well you do have a point there, although to suggest it’s a sign of insanity is overly harsh and unnecessary in my opinion. Maybe that wasn’t the best source to refer to, but I have heard this same idea many times from different sources that it’s often fat White women who are White male rejects that settle for Black men, or “wiggers” Whites who have a fetish for acting out the negative ghetto stereotype of Black people without feeling any of the pain of course.
“Robert doesn’t want to see any “mixing” point blank. It makes him “feel uncomfortable.”
That’s actually not true. Yes Black and White mixing does make me feel uncomfortable but for instance a Chinese person mixing with a Mexican doesn’t bother me at all. I don’t believe in the purity of blood lines and keeping them pure or anything like that, no what bothers me when I see Black/White couples is the White supremacist idea that is very prevalent in society of White people being on a pedestal, being the prize of all prizes being the most desirable, the most beautiful, the most moral, the most intelligent, most tolerant and accepting, and the most benevolent. I find these ideas sickening so when I see Black people in relationships with Whites in great numbers it does feel like they are validating these ideas that all Black people want, is to be associated with White people and all their heart desires is a White person in their bed.
I don’t hate the idea of interracial relationships to the point where I would wish people who are happy together were not in a relationship or hate Biracial people. If it wasn’t for the White supremacist system we all live under i wouldn’t be uncomfortable with Black/White relationships at all.
“Well then look in the other direction and turn off your television Robert b/c it won’t stop on your account.”
Oh I know. The are many Black people here in England who absolutely adore White people and think they have won the biggest prize in life by getting to be in relationships with and procreate with a White person, especially the men. Many see White women as the epitome of female beauty. The brainwashing is very strong here, I should know, I was subject to it too.
“Or perhaps Robert should just stay at home and never leave?”
I think that might be a bit drastic, interracial relationships don’t keep me up at night.
“There are people out there that do date outside their own ethnicity and it has nothing to do with a “low self esteem/superiority complexes”. Some people actually date outside their ethnicity b/c they’ve found mutual respect, shared values, philosophies, education, etc.
Ok. But living in a White supremacist society I don’t think its surprising or unreasonable that I would suspect that maybe the White supremacist brainwashing we’re all subjected to would have an affect on why people get into Black/White relationships and suspect that the reasons may often be negative ones and affect the relationships, since the White supremacy ideology that White people cling to poisons the general relationship between Blacks and Whites.
LikeLike
I’m doing my darnedest to mix my whiteboyness with blackgirlness just as soon as I’m able to woo some beautiful, smart BW to start nesting with me.
Kissy-kissy, niam-niam!
Just the thought of it makes me very comfortable indeed! I rule! Will you rule with me, my black princess?
Woo-Woo?
LikeLike
@Bulanix, Demerera
Kreegah bundolo!
LikeLike
@Hannu
Kreegah bundolo!
?
LikeLike
Dear Robert,
When I say:
“Some people actually date outside their ethnicity b/c they’ve found mutual respect, shared values, philosophies, education, etc.”
I’m not actually referring to one specific ethnicity here. But that’s besides the point. Life is short. The world of bp out there are not your children and there are a number of intelligible bp out there capable of making sound and brilliant decisions. People should have the option to date or see whomever they choose based on whatever their shared interests may be. That doesn’t necessarily mean everyone in the world will agree to the reasons why a person may choose to date another person, but that isn’t our business. Excluding ethnicitiy from the equation, we are left with people who may or may not choose to be with someone for the best reasons. So be it.
Frankly, personal decisions regarding who people date or marry isn’t anyone’s business and don’t we have better things to do than to harp on something we have no control over? At the end of the day, care about your life and the well being of your family. Try to ensure that the people you surround yourself with are positive contributors to society. At the very least I suppose that’s all we can do, right?
Yes, there are supremicists out there, but to generalize that every person who physically fits the description of one is one is both a generalization and a stereotype. Hatred is not exclusive to one ethnicity. It’s prevalent in all ethnicities. All ethnicities and genders hate being labelled and placed in a box and want to rise above it, so why perpetuate? Individuals that we encounter in life should be assessed on a case by case basis, not lumped into a category. Instead of festering and stewing about who’s dating who, why can’t we find ways to co-exist in harmony and eradicate the hate? Bemoaning certainly doesn’t help anyone get anywhere.
LikeLike
@Bulanik
The least desirable, unimportant, expendable last resort in a White supremacist country.
Society puts her on this pedestal people are programmed to see her as pure, good and the most beautiful of all women. The Rolls Royce of women lol.
No.
I don’t personally know many but I have heard of it.
LikeLike
@ Bulanik
If I was a woman that solution would work for me. 😉
LikeLike
@Demerera
It’ s Tarzan’s favorite one-liner. I’m a king of my own jungle! Wait, I forgot, Tarzan was into white chicks. Crazy man…
LikeLike
I saw an article on line this morning that listed “The Hottest Women Of All Time,” according to Men’s Health magazine. More black women than I expected made the list. However, they fell in the “cutsie pie face”category as mentioned in the post. All have lighter complexions and features that are not too negroid.
Beyonce, Halle Berry, Tina Turner, Lena Horne, Tyra Banks, and Pam Grier. (Not listed in order).
I’m sure this list was compiled by and for white men. I have never heard a black person use variations of the word “hot” when describing attractiveness or sexiness.
LikeLike
Greetings from Brazil. I have found this blog looking for some opinions about white people dating black people, and your blog is very interesting. In my country, I have a sort of problems to date, because I am a black woman, and men really do prefer white woman, specially men with high level of education – being white or black. I thought it was the same in another coutries, but it’s good to see – except for Nana – that people can love and date a white or a black person, and that education is more important than skin colour. Sorry for any English mistakes.
LikeLike
I’m a BW married to a BM –I live in Southern Maryland and I notice LOTS of BW/WM couple. The thing that I find noticeable is that none of the couples can be put in the categories listed in the post. I have seen head turning, gum-popping, lay-you-out-if they-catch-you-staring-at-them sistas with their big coat, timberlin-wearing, loud-music having WM, classy dark and light skin older BW with classy older WM, fellow homeschooling BW with their WM and my church going BW/WM couple. All of these couples were average/regular looking to me – none of the BW looking particularly “oh so skinny with big boobs and no butt” or “oh so light with fine wavy long hair” – for the most part, just regular looking middle class black women.
For those desperately seeking someone outside of their skin tone, (BW iso WM/WM is BW), is it not acceptable to just walk up to the person and say hello anymore? Granted I have been out of the dating scene for 15 years but that used to work when I was single. I remember a year or so ago being in the bookstore and having a white guy approach me. He just started talking about books then movies etc – I could tell he was hitting on me and it felt just like being hit on from a black guy.
LikeLike
People please stop over analyzing and stereotyping. I am African, dark skinned African and I have had all different types of race of men chase after me (from Asian; European; Latino; Africans; African-American) you name it. Can somebody please write about something that really matters. There is nothing set in stone when it comes to ATTRACTION. Why create a mountain out of a molehill. People are so brainwashed from the media.
LikeLike
You are so true. it all comes down to attraction and depends on the white male
LikeLike
I am a dark skinned black girl with so called watered down black features, I am from the Carribean with slanted eyes, high cheekbones. etc. I am tall and skinny. I attract more white , asian, hispanic men than I do black men. I like black men but I have ended up liking more non-black men better because they give me more attention and frankly I am tired of hearing of “the light skinned big booty” phenomenon that alot of black men like.
Unfortunately alot of black men are very colorstruck and they get more colorstruck as they travel up the career ladder.
LikeLike
Actually in appearances people have said that I looked like singer Toni Braxton, I have very very long legs that make up most of my body, big boobs (that grew to a natural 36D as soon as I turned 30yrs!. Then Im 5 feet 8 inches and 128 pds. I have been called Black Barbie. I used to hate my skinny frame in high school as black men would not ask me out (not super curvy) but now I love it.
Believe me , I do better dating non-black men and I have discovered that, they absolutely love me. This is not to say I do not like black men but the appreciation is not there in the professional fields. Ironically my brother , who looks like Michael Jordan is loved by non-black women more as well. So he dates white and hispanic women but hates to see me with a non-black man, go figure.
LikeLike
I am a white guy from Europe and just would like to briefly add my humble comment: I think generally women look good if they use their natural style, to give an extreme example what does very rarely look good is if let’s say an asian or a black woman try to look like a pale blonde woman. Be proud of what you have given by mother nature, I for example find natural african hair for both man and women very attractive – cannot understand all this fuss about straightening it 🙂
I also tend to believe that in middle and northern Europe people are nowadays luckily fairly relaxed when it comes to mixed marriages. You guessed it, I am married to a woman with non european roots – this was never a topic in my family. People are more interested in values and education, which I also believe matters.
Colleagues of mine went as a mixed group (blacks and whites) recently to the US, they experienced several (!!) incidents were they got yelled at from whites and from blacks why they are together – how uncool and backwarded is that?? BTW, it was around Detroit.
LikeLike
@ Nikki and @ Sanyu: I agree with you – but I ask you, is that really the case in today’s US culture? I am not really into Hollywood movies anyway and I am not saying this is represantive for the whole of the US, but at least there I still believe to sense strong racial segregation…. best regards.
LikeLike
I am a lover of all cultures. Its hard enough finding a good man to limit him to any one race. I have been loved and appreciated by black men, italian men, west indian men, and hispanic men. I have also been hurt or disrespected by them as well. This goes to show you that men are men. And finding your mr right doesnt have to do with actual skin color it has to do with that persons perception of skin color. Once you learn to love and appreciate that person, the superficial, the stereotypes will fade.
You know what I get from men that are not black? “Oh your intimidating, why dont you straighten your hair, your not a stereotypical black girl.” And i have to ask why is that? Because I’m getting a phd, can speak grammatically correct sentences and enjoy electronic or house music? Open your minds people. Learn to love yourself first, stop questioning why white men this or why black men that… there are close minded and open minded people iin every single culture. And people will always prove you right, wrong, or change your mind. Good luck guys
LikeLike
Funnily enough Ive met the boy in this photo and he is not into black women or men atall!!! He prides himself on that!!! I have been in relationships with different colour men most have been white, Im from London and there people from kinds of back grounds in relationships with each other! Im a black women and wouldnt have it any other way but im also a human being and we come in all colours and to be honest the more variety the better! Let love be what it wants.
LikeLike
I have observed white men and black women and what i have noticed is every time i see a white man that lives in the hood or is just an average joe their woman is always chocolate brown and full figured..When i see white men in college,their women are always dark,skinny as hell with natural unprocessed and maybe sometimes processed hair and these white men usually come from upper class or middle class families..And what i have observed as far as white men dating the more lighter skin black woman she is usually an actress,well off and stunningly gorgeous.And let me back track which i should have mentioned that there are some white men that will marry a smart,intelligent light skin black woman because i know one personally.White men don’t tend to go after the loud mouth so called ghetto black woman,more so a woman that they can handle.Now for itallian men they love dark and lighter skin curvy black women…But all in all beauty and preference is all in the eyes of whoever see’s it and whoever wants it because in this day in age people like whatever and whomever if they are attracted to that someone for whatever reason no matter size,race,color or gender.It is what it is and what it’s gonna be.
LikeLike
i just wanna know that why is it that every time a black woman or a black man makes a post about what ever..Why is it that some white rperson has to come out of left field with some kind of racist or racial remarfk…Geesh…What is wrong some of you white people.do you have to carry that garbage around with you everywhere you go..geesh.this is only a mature grown folk conversation..and if you cannot handle this then leave the site..Geesh..Grow up for once..This is so sad to try and turn this whole topic into something negative and racist when its all innocent and without prejudice..Please give the racist remarks and the self hate a rest.If you wanna be apart of this discussion you are welcomed but if you have nothing nice to say but ignorance then leave the site please.geesh…And i would like to apologize to everyone on behalf of those with these mean comments and foolish acts they don’t know what their doing so just ignore and keep it going.
LikeLike
@carolinew
Wotcha mate 🙂
‘Funnily enough Ive met the boy in this photo and he is not into black women or men atall!!! He prides himself on that!!!
Is he from blighty too then? Do you know what purpose that picture was taken for – is he supposed to be a model?
LikeLike
I noticed that you have Kerry Washington on the list that white men would prefer..I can totally see this…she seems to be a woman that has a beauty that would appeal to general population…more like a black barbie doll.
LikeLike
I am African, Beautiful, slim, dark chocolate with a smooth skin tone and I just happen to love white men. I have been living in Texas for 3 years now and I naively thought that by now I would have a white bf or even get married to a wm one. I have not had the chance to be exposed to wm a lot. But every time that I do get a chance to be around them, I notice that no one hits on me at all; and I act normal, I smile, make eye contact and in some cases even start a conversation, but still nothing.I had even tried online interracial dating websites, still nothing.
And I know i am gorgeous there is nothing wrong with me but I still get more bm hitting on me than wm. And it is kind of depressing that i cannot get what I want.
So I decided to go online and get some tips on how to attract wm, and that led me here.
Please what should I do?
LikeLike
“Oh your intimidating, why dont you straighten your hair, your not a stereotypical black girl.” And i have to ask why is that? Because I’m getting a phd, can speak grammatically correct sentences and enjoy electronic or house music?
————————————————————————————————————
@Sade
Hmmm, what is funny is that when a person meets you and decides that they like you, it was obvious that something attracted you to that person. Next thing they are telling you how to dress, how to act and behave, how to speak and generally trying to boss you about and change you.
I thought being able to speak well and having an education or at least acquiring knowledge were good traits to look for in a love interest. I think some people can’t handle the fact that their boyfriend/girlfriend is educated or seeks to better themselves, and this is a sign of an inferior complex, esteem issues and signs of a control freak.
If a man is finding a woman intimidating, that’s because he is not a fully developed man. A man who knows what he is about does not need to fear or try to dominate a woman……It’s all about self-confidence.
LikeLike
The picture in this article just shows poor body language and a couple who have no interest in each other whatsoever. She is reading her book and crossing her legs away from him and he looks like he wants to be somewhere else. they are both ignoring each other. Looks like they just had a row.
Yeah, I wondered about that picture on this article the first time I saw it. Especially now in contrast to the white women and black men article Abagond recently wrote where the couple are sitting closely and at least look happy together.
No doubt Abagond could have found a better picture to portray a happier couple, or maybe it was intentional.
LikeLike
@kensa
So I decided to go online and get some tips on how to attract wm, and that led me here.
Please what should I do?
I’m sorry that you are having trouble finding a mate and whilst I am no relationship expert and unless Abagond now has a sideline of a dating agency, 🙂 then I can only give my opinion.
It does seem to me that you are limiting yourself if you only seek to attract WM. Also, I dont live in the US but it seems that WM in America are potentially less likely to date IR than maybe other men from other parts of the world, particularly it seems, in the south where it sounds as though racism is almost entrenched. If you look on other posts on this blog, you will see that there are still many significant and contentious issues which affect race relations in the U.S – thats not to say that these issues arent mirrored worldwide but, it may go some way towards explaining why you are encountering difficulties finding a white mate.
Meanwhile I wish you success on your online dating but I would strongly suggest that if I were you, I wouldnt express a preference for race at all. I think that you should just wait and see who approaches you and take it from there. I think you will be surprised at how many non-black men do actually approach you but beware, some guys like this are not as decent/balanced and fair minded as they first appear to be.
LikeLike
kensa says,
I am African, Beautiful, slim, dark chocolate with a smooth skin tone and I just happen to love white men. I have been living in Texas for 3 years now and I naively thought that by now I would have a white bf or even get married to a wm one. I have not had the chance to be exposed to wm a lot. But every time that I do get a chance to be around them, I notice that no one hits on me at all; and I act normal, I smile, make eye contact and in some cases even start a conversation, but still nothing.I had even tried online interracial dating websites, still nothing.
And I know i am gorgeous there is nothing wrong with me but I still get more bm hitting on me than wm. And it is kind of depressing that i cannot get what I want.
So I decided to go online and get some tips on how to attract wm, and that led me here.
Please what should I do?
laromana says,
kensa,
Your experiences with American BW HATE CULTURE in your love life are the story of my life.
I commend you for your self confidence and for holding on to the FACT that you are gorgeous and there is NOTHING wrong with you.
In America ALL men are BRAINWASHED to IGNORE/DISRESPECT BW SOLELY because they’re BW.
MOST American men CHOOSE to go along with the BRAINWASHING but SOME CHOOSE not to (eg. Lovings-American WM/BW couple who helped legalize interracial marriage in the late 50’s/early 60’s).
YOU are not the problem and you’re right to expect to be treated like a NORMAL/HUMAN women by the WM you’re attracted to and, if it wasn’t for historical American BW HATE CULTURE/ANTI-BW BRAINWASHING of American men, you would be.
A PRO-BW/WM dating site you might check out (to find WM who are open to seriously dating and/or marrying BW), is Afroromance (afroromance.com).
I’ve read several touching/inspiring accounts of BW who have met/married WM they met on this site.
LikeLike
We truely live in a f.d up society when some folks continue to treat white people as if they are the golden goose and black people as the crap on ones shoes when it comes to relationships. I have no idea what WM prefer in BW and frankly as one white man said ‘don’t give a damn’. People are free to love, hook up and marry whoever they want whether their reasons are for genuine love or because they want to dilute their bloodlines cos they hate their dark skin so much. (Let’s not pretend there are not messed up black folks out there who only go for IR cos they want light, bright babies, if a White person will not do, the next best thing is Asian or Indian).
It seems when it comes to love having a black partner especially female is the bottom of the totem pole even for lots of black men. In the UK almost half of BM in relationships are with nonblack women, for a population that is only 1% out of 58 million people, that is a large stats. For those in loving genuine IR I salute you, for those who are in a ‘only a WM or WW will do for me cos my own ethnic group is crap’ I pity you, keep taking the selfhate pills and for God’s sake do not breed!
It’s time for the black community to teach their boys to respect women, they were not born with this bitter hatred towards BW and hypocrites that they are does not stop a lot of them from making them single mothers. And we black women need to stop laying with any old dog and making babies just cos the dude is black. We need our selfrespect back!
Den of the United Kingdom
P.S When we recognise there is only one race on this earth topics like this will be antiquated. We are not different species, maybe we need an alien invasion to teach us this lesson lol
LikeLike
“Alien n invasion to teach us this lesson.”
-Amen
LikeLike
Sade is divorced from her Spanish hubby and has been living with a Black ma for many years. They also have a daughter together.
Just clearing that up.
LikeLike
Menelik Charles
Sade is divorced from her Spanish hubby and has been living with a Black ma for many years. They also have a daughter together.
Just clearing that up.
No they don’t. All her bios said she had a baby with a Jamaican musician but the relationship dissolved soon after. She’s been with an English guy in Britain for some time. He has an 18 year old son that lives with them and she has her 13 year old daughter.
LikeLike
You say date rather than have sex with. But I don’t know the first thing about their real personalities as people so I couldn’t make that judgement and don’t see how other people could as well. If you asked who I’d approach out of basic animal attraction, yeah, a lot more of those in the top half. But I would bet any amount of money that most of these photos, top or bottom, are manipulated to make the women look good, rather than what they actually look like in the flesh. It’s pretty standard for any photos of celebrities or models.
BTW, Den, I’ve occasionally kicked around the notion of replacing the word ‘race’ with ‘breed’ when I discuss the subject – it allows for an acknowledgement of differences while also acknowledging commonality. Pit Bulls and Pomeranians are still both dogs, Maine Coons and Manx are both cats, and so on.
LikeLike
Could a main coon cat breed with a tigress? If so, what would the kittens look like? Would they take after their tigress mother or their main coon father? How about a chihuahua breeding with a she Great Dane? He might need a ladder to accomplish this but the resulting pups would be interesting. All and all fascinating!
LikeLike
Tigers aren’t part of the species “Felis Catus.” Although, oddly enough, it seems another wild cat species, Servals, are compatible with domestic cats. The children of such unions created through artificial insemination, called Savannahs, are even fertile.
And on closer examination, I’ve realized that there’s a few women on each list I don’t view as physically appealing. And no, I am not going to make a “would you do x” list of them, which is of course my first ‘spergy instinct. All I will say is that is not a particulalry flattering picture of Ms. Bombom.
LikeLike
“And yet they do prize whiteness in women, even in black women, but the whiteness they want is not as simple as skin colour. It is more in the general shape of her body – thin, maybe with large breasts, but not too big of a bottom.”
I don’t understand why you say that such features make someone more white than black. they’re just general human features.
LikeLike
I’m pretty young but, I understand what u guys are saying. the majority of the guys I’ve dated were white. My last bf was mixed, with white and black. I’m darker, big butt, pretty face, and sometimes ppl think i’m 1/2 Asian b/c of my almond shaped eyes. I’m really trying to get with a Mexican cuz they’re so bomb. My experiences with white guys is that they like me, but they don’t approach me. These guys are usually jocks…..but if we like each other, i usually have to make the 1st move. I think that if any white guys want to get with black females, they need to have more confidence in themselves. If you’re not confident in urself, why would she be confident in u?The comments about white guys liking the african features is true IMO b’c my parents are from Uganda, so I have Full lips, not too wide of a nose, and a longish face. i’m only 14 , but people think i’m 18/19. It really depends on who ur with. anyways, let me get off my soapbox.
-PrettyAfrican
LikeLike
It’s O.K. PrettyAfrican,, we all lie to ourselves every now and then.
White guys would want you more if you were skinnier – Think:
Ethiopian infomercial.
I’m sure you would have lots of Jack-0ff whites – to the rescue, !!!!
Do you have a dark skinned son?
If not…iron your breasts, and see what you come up with.
Mo’ – sarcasm.
LikeLike
@seventeen I don’t know what to say to your awful comment. You’re a real asshole, and I don’t even know why you’re on this type of a website if your mind is clouded with all these stereotypes…..That really says a lot about a character if you’d say something like that to a young person like me. We don’t people like you bashing BW on this site.
LikeLike
seem to be on the mark, my gf is medium compxioned black women, who is thin, small but perfectly shaped rear and a 32 b top. only thing I don’t like is she keeps her hair very short.
LikeLike
@fanspeed
What seems to be on the mark?
LikeLike
I know I’m a bit late in getting on to this post, but there are some things that people are not fully taking into consideration (perhaps they have on down the line, but I didn’t have enough time to read every comment). The thing is, the concept of what “African features” are is somewhat subjective, because each region has very different ones (it is a diverse continent). For instance, in West Africa you tend to see the more bold, wider features that include: general face shape, eyes, wide nose, broad lips. Since West Africa is where the majority of African-Americans are descended from, I suppose they tend to think that those features are the definition of African features, but they are not. In other regions, such as South & East Africa, more petite features are much more common. For example, I am a first generation full blooded Kenyan-American, and I have a very petite nose, a smaller, heart-shaped face, high cheekbones, almond-shaped eyes, and relatively big lips. These features are common within my family, and although we are full-blooded from the Kikuyu tribe (a Bantu group), my mother, my oldest brother and I are often asked by Ethiopians or Somalis whether we are from those countries. That being said, I do have a substantial butt (not an apple bottom, mind you), with a pear shape and curves (not as in fat rolls, as people have begun to describe curves, but in actual curves)…but I am small boned and have long limbs. All of that to say, it is mainly about the features and less about the skin tone. I have noticed that certain white and black men are about equally attracted to me when I am on the thin side (cus the butt is always there, holla), but when I am on the heavier side, I still get a substantial amount of attention from black guys, but the interesting thing is, the attention from white guys dwindles down more to the “country boys”–because they also appreciate meat on a woman’s bones. I am also dark-skinned, but have somewhat “Ethiopian-like” hair, meaning that it is curly and more fine-textured than the average African. Although I do believe that certain populations of white and black men like the “natural” (or more knappy) look, they really do zone in more on either long or fine textured, more bouncy/flowy hair. I can’t tell you how many people (black and white) have commented on my hair and call it pretty, I think mainly because it is such a contrast to my dark skin. But like many people have said before me, even with all of these observations, it just matters from man to man–no telling their reasons.
LikeLike
@Maria I’ve also noticed that so-called African features differ from place to place. I’m 100% Ugandan, and my nose is not very wide, I have full lips, darker skin, high cheekbones, almond shaped eyes and an oval shaped face. People form West Africa usually have wide, flat noses and broad lips, as u mentioned. So when ppl say “African features”, they should specify which part of Africa they’re talking about. I also think that us East African women are the prettiest, lol( Born and raised in CO, btw)
LikeLike
@PrettyAfrican: Hahaha, I didn’t want to say it…but….!!! My family has a lot of Ugandan friends, and the way you described yourself reminds me of them…truly beautiful people. There are also huge cultural differences, it’s almost as though our “finer” features coincide with our cultural personality. On the West Coast (namely Nigeria), as we mentioned earlier they tend to have the very wide, bold features…and they tend to be so much more aggressive and somewhat abrasive. Whereas South & East Africa are punctuated more by people who, although expressive and wonderfully African, are more “thinkers” by nature and much more quiet/respectful with our more elongated, defined features. I was born in Chicago, spent my young childhood years in the Midwest, and was raised from 4th grade on in the South. So my personal cultural personality is a mixture of Kenyan, British (by way of Kenya), & Southern American with a touch of Midwest somewhere in there! Crazy how so many different cultures can intersect within one individual.
LikeLike
@Maria You are so right!! I think maybe there’s just something about the East coast of Africa….Africans are very welcoming people in general, but I think East Africans are more hospitable. I think we carry ourselves in a more respectable way
LikeLike
In my opinion it has nothing to do with skin color, but more a complex indication of who that person is. Often times the easiest way for men to determine what a women is like would be to look into her eyes. You can often tell how they’re feeling or if they have any interest in you instantly. Obviously some men have a tendency to simply go after a women because she’s attractive, but other men are more interested in the total package.
LikeLike
@Maria@PrettyAfrican
“PrettyAfrican: Hahaha, I didn’t want to say it…but….!!! My family has a lot of Ugandan friends, and the way you described yourself reminds me of them…truly beautiful people. There are also huge cultural differences, it’s almost as though our “finer” features coincide with our cultural personality. On the West Coast (namely Nigeria), as we mentioned earlier they tend to have the very wide, bold features…and they tend to be so much more aggressive and somewhat abrasive. Whereas South & East Africa are punctuated more by people who, although expressive and wonderfully African, are more “thinkers” by nature and much more quiet/respectful with our more elongated, defined features.”
You two, should be more cautious about what you write on the internet and your young age is no excuse. I am a West African woman and I won’t say Nigeria is representative of all people from West Africa. What’s up with the abusive generalizations about being “much more aggressive and somewhat abrasive”? And ” South & East Africa are punctuated more by people who…are more “thinkers” by nature and much more quiet/respectful with our more elongated, defined features.”? This is so offensive and disgusting. By stating implicitly that one group is better than another one, you’re making a racist statement if you aren’t aware of it. How many West African people have you met in your life? Unbelievable! Travel to Africa, any part of Sub-Saharan Africa and you’ll quickly learn, that African people, I mean the ones who still know their traditions and values, would never ever dare to say these kind of things. Go and live in Africa and you’ll see how an African in touch with his/her roots would never, even in his/her craziest days, say what you two dared to write and joke about on Internet! Don’t you know that the more you stress on your “more elongated, defined features”, you sound like a parrot repeating the beauty criteria taught by his white master? Are you aware that you were being racist toward other black people by conveying ridiculous stereotypes? Alienated that much from your roots? Absolutely appalling!
LikeLike
*applause for Anna*
LikeLike
Anna, I am sorry that what was said offended you. In retrospect, what I said was not very tactful and was hurtful. My sincerest apologies. When I said “hahaha, I didn’t want to say it, but…” it was more in jest than anything else. But I should have been more sensitive. You make very good points, and although I am somewhat young (22), there is no excuse. That being said, I do believe that some of the cultural differences I mentioned do ring true regarding the difference between South & East Africa and West Africa. I was not trying to imply that more defined features imply greater intelligence, etc., but I can see now that that is how it came off. Which is terrible. We have a few Nigerian family friends, and they are lovely people. I think what the main issue is that East Africans do tend to look down on Nigerians, but perhaps it is not well founded. I do think that I generalized West Africa in saying Nigeria, and I was only thinking about Nigeria. I am sorry about that, but I also need to work on how I think about Nigerians regardless. It is not right. That being said, do not forget that we in East Africa (and especially South Africa) were still subjected to the racism and Eurocentrism of the colonizing British. And I have been to Kenya, and just recently this past summer, and unfortunately, I have to say that you’re wrong regarding what an African will or will not say. Every country/nation has its prejudices, and although we might be the same race, most of Africa has issues with this. It’s a human race issue.
LikeLike
@Bulanik: I am not trying to suck up to anybody. And if you knew more about me, you would know that is not the case. I have lived most of my life in the American South and have seen racial politics that are ridiculous, so no, there is no way that I am trying to suck up to the “white man.” And when did I ever say a bunch of stuff about how “pretty I am?” Although I may be considered beautiful by what the world considers to be “beautiful,” that is not and should never be the primary focus of who I am. I simply stated what I look like. I have seen Nigerians/West Africans who have features totally unlike mine, but are gorgeous. So, no, no, no, and please read my last comment. Also, no big deal about the name, Marie is a pretty name as well.
LikeLike
Black is beautiful because they come in all shades of brown and have beautiful features. I hope people realize that one day.
LikeLike
@Maria
have lived most of my life in the American South and have seen racial politics that are ridiculous, so no, there is no way that I am trying to suck up to the “white man.”
I see now that you understand that it might have looked that way. It is easy to get carried away in cyberspace when you meet someone who seems to be on your level but beware, there are unscrupulous commenters on here who will use those comments as ammunition to demonstrate all that is negative about black culture.
Anyway, whilst you are aware of, at the most basic level, the similarities and differences in your fellow country men please always be remember this:- WP in the South couldnt give a S*it where the hell in the world ANY BP comes from so they dont for example discern from people who come from West Africa, South Africa or the Caribbean for that matter. I sound like a mother hen lol, and you seem like a bright young lady and i’m glad that you were able to put your hand up and admit that your initial comments could be misconstrued and attempted to rectify your responses to reflect this.
LikeLike
@Bulanik: Look at what you wrote specifically to me earlier:
“Have you any idea what your ignorant assumptions sound like, or how arrogant you sound because you think you are so pretty? Do you think you have advertised in your inner qualities in a good light by your comments?
And, who, exactly, are you writing for? Whose benefit? This subject is “black women that white men like”… so are trying to *suck up* to white men by telling them all about your fine features which is maybe *closely to white*, and your quiet manners which is not aggressive *like black girls* – something?
Do you place any value on your dignity?
You want to look SO NICE to white society, and white men, that the only way you can think to do this is by trashing your West African sisters’ beauty, femininity and intelligence to make yourself appear more attractive?
Not so pretty now, are you?”
Listen, I bit my tongue, ate my words, and apologized (for good reason, I deserved the feedback I received). You might consider doing the same thing. When you said:
“I hope you don’t believe my comment was really about “prettiness” or whether you are actually “pretty” or not. OMG, that’s funny. I have no doubt in my mind that are pretty woman – but the fact of your personal prettiness is really not interesting (sorry) nor is it important or relevant to the your important responsibilties.”
Now look at those two separate threads I have highlighted and consider the contradictions. YOU brought up that I think I am “oh so pretty,” etc.,etc., so that is why I responded with:
“And when did I ever say a bunch of stuff about how “pretty I am?” Although I may be considered beautiful by what the world considers to be “beautiful,” that is not and should never be the primary focus of who I am. I simply stated what I look like.”
I have to watch my pride and arrogance…for sure. That much was obvious from the earlier posts. But don’t point out my arrogance, harp on it, and then label me ridiculous for the way I responded to your direct statement to me. Insert splinter vs. log in the eye Bible verse…chew on it. And in case you forgot, this blog did begin as “Black women that white men like” and a detailed discussion regarding preferences and how it just varies from person to person. So, yes, my bringing that up was relevant. Also, unlike several of the people who have posted on here who so clearly want to be with a white man—I am attracted to every single race on this planet and could care less whether the man I end up with is of European ancestry or anything else. That says something.
LikeLike
@Demerera: I agree with you 100% and thank you.
LikeLike
@Bulanik: Basically, I am saying that you were judging me for being arrogant, etc., etc., but then went on to make arrogant assumptions and jabs at my character and contradicted yourself in the process. I am not saying you are a hypocrite (because when it comes down to it, we all are), but the manner in which you conveyed your opinions was hypocritical. But when it comes down to it, like I said earlier, I am strongly reviewing and thinking about the way that I have perceived many West African people, because I consider myself to be very open-minded, and I do not wish to have that kind of mindset. Period.
LikeLike
@Bulanik: I just said “when it comes down to it” like 70 times in that last statement, mis apologeticos.
LikeLike
@Bulanik: You are refusing to look at the whole and only picking out one or two sentences out of what you have said and what I have said. In other words, you are seeing only what you want to see. Look at this:
“Basically, I am saying that you were judging me for being arrogant, etc., etc., but then went on to make arrogant assumptions and jabs at my character and contradicted yourself in the process. I am not saying you are a hypocrite (because when it comes down to it, we all are), but the manner in which you conveyed your opinions was hypocritical.”
I CLEARLY stated that you judged me for being arrogant. Full stop. Made jabs at my character. Full stop. Contradicted yourself. Stop. Then I went on to say that I AM NOT SAYING YOU ARE A HYPOCRITE, but the way you relayed your information was hypocritical. All of those statements are separate. Yet you still managed to come to these conclusions:
“by saying that I am the arrogant, judgmental hypocrite.”
You are patronizing and love to generalize, and although I was CLEARLY wrong in my statements earlier, I can at least admit to any foolishness that I exhibit. You should practice that sometime. And in your latest comment, you spit this out:
“The point is the value and importance over and above other Africans that you seemed to state.”….Did I not already address this and say that I am sincerely sorry and need to get rid of those types of thoughts?!? Just look at my latest comment:
“But when it comes down to it, like I said earlier, I am strongly reviewing and thinking about the way that I have perceived many West African people, because I consider myself to be very open-minded, and I do not wish to have that kind of mindset. Period.”
What is ENOUGH for you Bulanik? Because right now, you are coming off as the type of person who can see someone else’s wrongs, yet refuses to acknowledge their own, and you can’t see an apology for what it is? I know I don’t have to answer to you, but I care about what I think and what I say (and whether or not it is messed up and needs to be changed), so I considered what you said…took the good from it, and then turned your attention to the bad from your own statements. It was not a “GET BACK” scheme, because if that were the case, I would not have apologized in the first place…I would have just come at you with irrational fire and excuses for my behavior.
And also, the reason why women place so much value on their looks is because the world places value on women’s looks. Because we were made beautiful…period. So, I care about what I look like, but that has nothing to do with this…we were talking about features and what others consider to be beautiful. You want to know something about me that shows you I do not place higher value on my beauty than my character. I NEVER wear makeup. I wear moisturizer and chapstick and that’s enough for me. I don’t prune myself for an hour…it’s more of a “mere minutes” ordeal. So, yet again, don’t try to act like you know me when you don’t.
LikeLike
I have to be very honest but I don’t think White men like Black women
Well for the most part they don’t.
The only ”attractive” Black women to them are light skinned women with Eurocentric features and mixed blood.I hardly see White guys date Black girls. In my small, predominantly White town, most White guys tell me and say it over again, I don’t like Black girls and stuff like that. One went far enough to say that they is something wrong with Black women like me.It made me feel so sad.
My pal is always turned down by White guys simply because she is Black.
In interracial dating sites, a lot of White guys exclude Black women from their sites and blogs because they don’t like them and aren’t attractive to them.
This doesn’t go for all White guys but for MOST.
I am 16 and I am going by what I observe, see and hear. Comment if you think that I am wrong.
LikeLike
@Adeen Danica Mckenzie:
It sounds like you are in a very small-minded town. Like, extremely small-minded. Although the town I’ve grown up in is in the South and has its own racial politics, I have never (from what I can remember) heard a white guy say that they are not into black girls. Perhaps it is because I live in a town that is a 60:40 ratio of white to black people, but there are many black girls that white guys have found attractive, just like there are many black girls they don’t. It just goes with preference. But I do have to say, maybe where you’re from they’re just into biracial black people, but my experience has shown me that it has to do with features and personal preference. I am chocolate-skinned and have gotten a lot of attention from white guys, and I am full-blooded Kenyan-American. This does not make me anything more, this is just an observation I have made. That being said, I believe we African-American women in general need to stop pining for the attention of the white male. You know? But I can see how this would be frustrating for you and your friend because your town is predominantly white and maybe there is not much of an availability of other races to date. What those particular white guys have said sounds very hurtful and ignorant…I look forward to the day you can move out of that small town.
LikeLike
@ Maria:
Wow – simmer down…why so defensive? I can’t speak for Bulanik, but I can see how your general attitude is a bit arrogoant, by referring to these statements:
You didn’t draw attention to your ‘elongated, defined’ features because you consider them hideous, did you? You may not have said outright how ‘pretty’ you think you are, but getting bogged down in semantics isn’t the topic here.
I guess you can’t see how you come off as arrogant, but it’s not entirely your fault – that seems to be a common trait amongst the under-35 crowd: Self-centered, and lacking self-awareness…
LikeLike
@sepultura13: Why am I defensive? Because I apologized and owned up and some people keep on bringing it up (not unlike you). I can’t do more but apologize and say I need to work on my arrogance, which, if you read my later statements you would see. What more do you want? And, if the under 35 crowd seems to have the “self-centered & lacking awareness” down, then consider 35+ hitting the jackpot in being judgmental.
LikeLike
adeen
There have been girls I really liked who couldn’t have cared less. There have been girls who really liked me and I couldn’t have cared less. And I’ve had a few girlfriends as well. So if you don’t mind some input gained from hard earned experience, I’ve learned that the heart wants what it wants. But the heart doesn’t always want what’s good for it. I’m talking about you as well as them. It’s no good to want someone who doesn’t want you back. That doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with you. It just means you can’t always get what you want. And, who knows — maybe you’ll be better off with someone else? So find solace in the knowledge that it only takes one decent partner to last a lifetime. And the heartache you feel now will only make you appreciate them all the more. There’s definitely someone out there for you. Maybe not today. And maybe not tomorrow. But a good woman will eventually find a good man — unless she’s unlucky enough to find a bad man first. In the meantime, listen to some music that speaks to the way you’re feeling. “You Can’t Always Get What You Want” always worked for me. If it doesn’t work for you then find something that does.
LikeLike
@sepultura13: Actually, no, I take that back. I am not going to generalize an age group just because one person says something stupid. The majority of 35+ people are not judgmental based upon what you said about my age group, just like the majority of under age 35 people are not self-centered and lacking self-awareness based upon the ignorant and offensive statements I said earlier. And just because someone says one comment on a blog does not mean that they are self-centered and not self-aware. Sure, I’ve got a lot of growing up to do…and I look forward to gaining new perspectives and learning more, but I’ll be damned if I’m going to let someone who has never met me tell me that those are two of my character traits based upon a few things that I have stated (and later retracted).
LikeLike
@Everyone:
To anyone I may have offended from my first two comments, I am sincerely sorry. I just want to clear this up completely because it keeps on coming up and I meant my first, second, and this apology. What I stated was ill-founded and I have been thinking about the implications of what I said and my perceptions of certain groups of people. I aim to change those perceptions. To those who chose to come to conclusions about who I am as a person based on the statements I made, please consider thinking twice about doing that. A comment on cyberspace usually only represents a fraction of what a person thinks, and in kind, who that person is at their core. I know I am preaching to the choir, but we are all complex beings…and I would like to be treated as one. Yet again, sorry for those I may have offended, but I have learned my lesson and am thankful that some of my skewed views came to light through this blog so that I can work on them! Much love.
LikeLike
Its hard for me to post on this thread because my jalopy of a computor take so long to load the thread up
Destructure…….Ok ……..
Adeen, I dont know what to tell you, I am white wasp American, and I love black women. Ive been with many kinds of women, but, black women have a very special place in my life….my first wife was from the now defunct Roosavelt Taylor Homes, the deep projects from the South Side of Chicago. I laugh at stereotypes of ghetto women, my first wife was so refined and elagent, I fell in love with her watching her do Kathyrun Dunham technique.Im celibrating my 25 th annivercary with my black Brazilian wife…dont worry about white boys, be who you are and great types of all the kinds of guys out there will come
LikeLike
@Adeen:
I have to be very honest but I don’t think White men like Black women
Well for the most part they don’t.
Hi Adeen,
What you have to remember is that where you live is merely a microcosm of some parts of the U.S. It doesnt reflect how the ROtW thinks at all. When you look at the responses to some of the posts you have commented on, what have you noticed about the white commenters who make the most ridiculous and generalised statements? None of them have been further than their own back yard. They are terrified to get out there and experience the world for fear of having their preconceptions challenged and exposed for the nonsense that it is.
Also, don’t dwell on the comments that your peers are saying to you though I know its difficult at the moment. Boys are often awkward individuals who cant cope with the complexities of emotion that come about with thinking about intimacy and relationships and so, adding a perceived ‘difference’ in to the equation is just too much for them to contemplate at the moment. That and the fact that they may not have the courage to do something that seemingly goes against the grain.
BTW, IMO it is best not to get bogged down with attracting a mate from a particular racial background. What’s more important is feeling good about yourself and knowing that you are radiating this out there. Nothing guys like more than a woman with confidence. Looks are transient and relationships come and go. Knowing and loving yourself will be one of the only constants that you should try to sustain in your life.
Do you intend to go to University Adeen?
LikeLike
@Anna@Bulanik@darqbeauty…….I guess I didn’t think before I typed, but anyways, I’m sorry for what I said b/c it obviously hurt you..wow, I never thought my comments would cause such hurt..I see where you guys are coming from, and I’m sincerely sorry.
I just wanted to say that I am visiting Las Vegas at the moment and I have noticed that there are so many more interracial couplings here than in Denver….I’ve seen about 5 BW/WM couples…the woman usually has natural hair and a thin stature..I’ve seen braids and also relaxed hair..dark and lighter so it depends on the person, I believe. There’s also lots of BM/WW and BM/HW. I’ve also noticed that alot of white guys are dating Asians and Latinas, too. I think I’ve seen two HM/BW pairings. it was really an eye-opener to see all these different types of pairings.
Again, sorry to all those I hurt w/my previous comments
LikeLike
@Maria
Thanks for your response. I am an descended from Jamaicans so I am Jamaican American. I am not from my small minded, racist Southern but I was born in New York to Jamaican parents Yes, I have Coco brown skin like you and I am very pretty. I moved to the town because my mother wanted me to have a bettter life.But I hate the place and have hated it since I arrived here.
The place is predominantlyWhite and a lot of them dislike Black people too.
My friend is biracial looking and light skinned and still doesn’t catch a guy’s attention. Not even a Black guy’s.
My uncle lives in West Palm Beach and it is a bigger city and there is so much to do down there too. i just want to move there after I complete my sophomore year. My mother wouldn’t let me.And I do look follow to leaving the place in June of this year.
@BR
I am glad to hear your opinion. Maybe I was wrong. But in the town I live in,it seems that way, Most of the White guys dislike Black girls and say something with wrong wth them. The guy at my bus stop said so. I like hearing your opinion and I love to hear you love and appreciate Black women like me.
@Demerera
I do plan on going to college.Yes, i would like to get out of the town I live but my mother wants me to stay. It isn’t cool to be bored and alone all the time. Plus there isn’t any culture or anything to do with youth
Everyone has an preference and to be honest with you, I don’t see Lela Rochon with a White guy. I see Claire Huxtable with one though to be honest with all the bloggers.
LikeLike
@Pretty African
Apologies accepted and please accept mine too because some parts of my comment were harsh.
LikeLike
@ Maria
Same as above:-)
LikeLike
@ Maria
I am not gonna debate the whole West Africa/East Africa/ South Africa (even Central Africa) cultural differences thing because:
1. we ARE all different indeed but
2. truth be told, we know squat about each other and the few things we think we know are either based on our few encounters with a few, westernized people in the North hemisphere OR we learned about other African people through TV programs made and edited by people other than the ones we were trying to learn about.
Regarding what an African living on the continent would say or not, I didn’t stress on people knowing and attached to their roots and values for no reason. I’m not talking about the people in big African cities who don’t speak their mother tongues, who don’t know or don’t honor the traditions of their ancestors because it isn’t “modern”. I’m gonna make a generalization here but in the African culture, people are raised to be cautious about what they say. In most African dialects, people speak in metaphors. There are things that shouldn’t be said outside your house or to anyone. It’s a society full of taboos and trust me, when I tell you, if someone ever dared to say something like what you wrote, it would be in a jest: ABOVE ALL, the remark would fly because there would be historical customs which allow a member from one group to tell this kind of joke to someone from the other group. It would be seen as friendly banter between two ethnic groups.
PS: I have nothing against modernity btw, actually I do love my comfort: electricity, internet and all the rest. What I absolutely disagree with is equating modernity to anything western and ignoring your culture assuming it has nothing to offer.
LikeLike
@Anna It’s OK, I realize some of what I said was kind of inflammatory and one-sided, and i made it sound like I was better than you b/c I’m east african, which is not true.
@Bulanik I think we all get caught up in the heat of the moment, and it’s easy to say things online that you wouldn’t say to someone’s face…
@Adeen I can understand some of what you are saying. i live in Co, which doesn’t really have a significant Black population, and i RARELY see a BW/WM couple……white guys do say “I don’t date black girls”, and it’s like “What the hell? What’s so special about a white girl or an asian or whatever?” I have nothing against white women or asian women, but i really think that people should wake up and realize that us black women have alot to offer and we’re every bit as good, sometimes even better than the others…..I just turned 14, so you & I are in the same boat in terms of age, and i hope it gets better for us as we get older. Another thing i will say is that when a white guy is interested, he just stares at you, and he won’t let you know how he feels….i think even the young ones are intimidated by black females, and that may be part of the reason why black women and white men don’t date as much as other races. Most of my bfs have been white and i had to be the one to approach them, and then we date, but when I date a black/mixed guy, they approach me….interesting pattern, huh? anyways, I hope that you find a good guy regardless of color. 🙂
LikeLike
@PrettyAfrican
I am glad that you can relate to me. Yeah I thought that I was the youngest person on this site lol! I am 16.
Yes, my small town in Florida, White guys always say that. I prefer Black guys but I have a fetish for White guys. I don’t see why White, Latina and Asian women get more attention. Are they any better than us? Is there anything wrig with us? We, as Black women, aren’t all loud, ghetto etc but a lot of other races of men buy into it. Whenever I post a picture on fb, it might get a few likes and comments but when a blond hair and blue eyed girl posts a picture, she gets a zillion likes and comments. I get frustrated time after time. I am just as pretty as herbut she is ”pretty”.
Yeah I hope things are better when we grow up and get older because all the racism I see now is so disguisting. America and the world in general doesn’t value Black womanhood at all.
Yeah I want to find a nice and cute boyfriend regardless of race.
LikeLike
As a White male 25, I would say you pretty much hit the nail on the head. It really isn’t just in regarding to Black Women at least for myself. I would say Hispanic and Asian the same guidelines apply. I do tend to prefer Women of any type with more “White” facial features and a thin body. Like anyone I have my own preferences even among white women. However, in regards to the kinds of non-white women I tend to like you paint a pretty good description of my preferences.
LikeLike
Adeen, PrettyAfrican has the right aproach, most of those white boys are going to be like a deer paralysed in the headlights if you look at them
They have so much bs media and peer stupid gossip that they dont know their behind from their earwax
Get a club and bang em over the head and drag them away
I still say there is lots of fertile territory of all types of guys in the trombone section of your school jazz band, and all you have to say is “I like your playing…” . Dont make the mistake of doing it with the lead sax player, you are just asking for trouble
LikeLike
@Adeen I know exactly what you’re talking about!!! My pretty Blond haired Blue eyed friend gets a bunch of likes when she posts an iffy picture, but when I post a gorgeous picture, I get like 1? WTF? And if a white guy is going for Exotic, why doesn’t he choose a black girl??? What is more exotic than us?? mBut I’m just asking anyone on here, What makes it easier to approach a sLatina or an Asian?? I don’t get when people say “It’s extremely hard to approach a Black woman” Uh no, WE’RE STILL FREAKIN WOMEN! all you have to do is ask her out on a date!! People are so analytical these days. And when you say you want a cute and nice boyfriend no matter the color, I’m with you!
LikeLike
PrettyAfrican, I dont know either what makes it easier, I dont beleive its easiar , myself. I do know that if I aproach a black girl with respect and honest interest, that I would have as much chance as with any other girl. You both are stil very young, most of those guys just started getting interested in girls and they really dont know what they want at all…They have media images and peer preasure to like certain things. It will take them a while to really understand how to be next to a real live breathing woman…
LikeLike
————– Maria
@PrettyAfrican: Hahaha, I didn’t want to say it…but….!!! My family has a lot of Ugandan friends, and the way you described yourself reminds me of them…truly beautiful people. There are also huge cultural differences, it’s almost as though our “finer” features coincide with our cultural personality. On the West Coast (namely Nigeria), as we mentioned earlier they tend to have the very wide, bold features…and they tend to be so much more aggressive and somewhat abrasive. Whereas South & East Africa are punctuated more by people who, although expressive and wonderfully African, are more “thinkers” by nature and much more quiet/respectful with our more elongated, defined features. I was born in Chicago, spent my young childhood years in the Midwest, and was raised from 4th grade on in the South. So my personal cultural personality is a mixture of Kenyan, British (by way of Kenya), & Southern American with a touch of Midwest somewhere in there! Crazy how so many different cultures can intersect within one individual.
Aaaaaaaaaahhhhh, aaahhhhh, ahhhhhhh!!!!
See how we’ve been brain watched by Whites! We complain about them but we’re the ones harming ourselves by saying” Ugandas are so and so……
Nigerians are so and so……., Kenyans are so and so……….
But the truth remains that for them we “Black” are all the same.
When they see you, they see your colour first!
LikeLike
Every man loves a beautiful woman same applies to every woman. When i say beautiful i mean: appearance, attitude, intergrity and so on and so forth. But unfortunately we live in a superficial world, where almost 99.9% look out for physical appearance first.
That being said; everyman loves a beautiful woman but again, unfortunately we’ve been told by our society and above all the media that a certain beauty is ok and a certain isn’t.
I have so many stunning black girlfriends and acquaintances; some are models.
They always get attention from everyone both men, women and children; especially men of all races. They told me that they always arouse envy and hatred especially from White women because they draw more attention through their beauties and personalities.
So as you can see, it is because we’ve all been brainwashed by the media. I guess if it weren’t for their physical appearances; if they were like the steoreotypical black women portrayed by the media, their personalities wouldn’t have been noticed at all, as well.
Long live superficiality!! (Kidding, of course)
LikeLike
I can just say: you are so right. I grew up in Europe amoug white peoply mostly. So I dated mostly white guys. And I am more like Garielle Union. I am thin, have breast and a round butt- but both not ‘too’ big. And the white guys are falling for that. They always tell me how much they like my body and my face. It is true they don’t care about the hair or the colour. At least according to my experience.
I have some heavier female black friends. And unfortunately most of the white guys I know don’t like their bodies. But I guess because in Europe thin is in. Probably I would be to thin for others with other preferency.
And I wanted to say that Blanc2 is right too. When a white guy felt for a black woman then because he prefer darker skin than lighter, fuller lips than thinner lips and more curves than to thin. At the end it does not matter, they just like everything what black women over.
Thanks for your report!
LikeLike
A comment emailed to me from Laromana:
@Adeen I know exactly what you’re talking about!!! My pretty Blond haired Blue eyed friend gets a bunch of likes when she posts an iffy picture, but when I post a gorgeous picture, I get like 1? WTF? And if a white guy is going for Exotic, why doesn’t he choose a black girl??? What is more exotic than us?? mBut I’m just asking anyone on here, What makes it easier to approach a sLatina or an Asian?? I don’t get when people say “It’s extremely hard to approach a Black woman” Uh no, WE’RE STILL FREAKIN WOMEN! all you have to do is ask her out on a date!! People are so analytical these days. And when you say you want a cute and nice boyfriend no matter the color, I’m with you!
laromana says,
PrettyAfrican,
It saddens me to see that MOST American men have still not learned to respect the humanity, dignity, and femininity of BW (although MORE younger American men are open to relationships with BW now than they were in the past).
MOST American men CHOOSE to go along with ANTI-BW BRAINWASHING but SOME American men CHOOSE to rejectANTI-BW BRAINWASHING.
Once I learned that ANTI-BW HATE is/has always been a major part of how BW are viewed/treated in America, it helped me toNEVER blame myself (or devalue my humanity/dignity/femininity) for BW HATERS/their ANTI-BW HATE.
I also learned to reject American men who CHOOSE to go along with ANTI-BW BRAINWASHING and only establish relationships with American men who CHOOSE to reject ANTI-BW BRAINWASHING (and who choose to view BW as individual human women/NOT ANTI-BW stereotypes).
LikeLike
I love this post. Mainly because it is something I struggled with for a long time. I got to a slum where I even hated being black simply because I flet no one wanted me. I refused to approach men with the thought of I am not pretty. I am too dark.
One day I just stopped waiting on the guy to approach me and started approaching them. I dated several guys that I had to approach, but in the end I married the man that approached me. Black women are beautiful and we have to find men that enjoy and lavish in the beauty. I realize that most men can not handle the magnificence of a truly beautiful black woman and it takes a real man to be able to do that.
LikeLike
I’ve been following this post for years. I haven’t posted in some time. For the entire time I’ve followed this blog the same poster writes about the anti-BW attitudes. The disrespect, dismissal, disregard of black women. And yes, such attitudes exist.
However, this is what I know. I am on the verge of the second half on my life. Self-actualized men — white, black, and everything in between — are less impressed with the hue of the skin and more impressed with the content of your character. Any man who reduces you to a collection of physical attributes is less than a man, and deserves not your time nor your effort.
The moment you stop focusing on the past — but embracing the past as you look to your future — you will attract love in great abundance.
LikeLike
“(..)It seems that some people think the best thing about a black women is the butt(…)” IMHO, the best thing about a black women IS the butt. White women don’t have that, so they don’t have a best thing about them. LOL (not meant to be offensive)
LikeLike
From laromana:
I’ve been following this post for years. I haven’t posted in some time. For the entire time I’ve followed this blog the same poster writes about the anti-BW attitudes. The disrespect, dismissal, disregard of black women. And yes, such attitudes exist.
However, this is what I know. I am on the verge of the second half on my life. Self-actualized men — white, black, and everything in between — are less impressed with the hue of the skin and more impressed with the content of your character. Any man who reduces you to a collection of physical attributes is less than a man, and deserves not your time nor your effort.
The moment you stop focusing on the past — but embracing the past as you look to your future — you will attract love in great abundance.
laromana says,
lunadalaska,
BW aren’t responsible for BRAINWASHED/ANTI-BW American men who CHOOSE toDISMISS/DISRESPECT them and BW aren’t the ones who need to solve this problem.
ANTI-BW HATE in American culture/media may be NO BIG DEAL to you (because your life isn’t/has NEVER been affected by it) but the relationship lives of MANY BWhave sufferred/continue to sufferdue to UNFAIR/ABNORMAL/NEGATIVE treatment from the many American men who CHOOSE/have CHOSEN to go along with a BRAINWASHED/ANTI-BW mindset (eg. treating BW like “lesser women” SOLELY because they’re BW, ONLY being open to dating/marrying NON-BW, demeaning/degrading the humanity, dignity, femininity of BW).
If you genuinely care about BW (including those who have shared their painful experiences on this post) you’ll admit/accept the fact that the ANTI-BW attitudes/mistreatment they face from MANY American men is REAL/ONGOING,instead of telling them to “get over it” by “not focusing on the past”.
American men who’ve spent ANY part of their lives DISMISSING/DISRESPECTING BW (due to THEIR CHOICE to go along with ANTI-BW BRAINWASHING) don’t everDESERVE for ANY BW to trust them in a dating/marriage relationship.
LikeLike
Laromana
We both agree no woman should be subjected to ill treatment. However at some point, as women, we have to be proactive. We have to stop waiting for the world to change — and be the change.
Don’t date men who disrespect you.
Don’t accept comments that cross the line.
Don’t allow men to bully you.
Don’t make excuses for bad behavior
Don’t play the victim.
THAT is how we change the world. It is a matter of personal choices. It is owning your own power. There is nothing more intimidating and attractive than a woman who owns her own power.
No one can change any other person. We can only change how we react to stupid.
LikeLike
Okay, I haven’t posted in a very long time, but have been following, sometimes with amusement, the posts here. I feel, though, that I must respond to this latest rant: I am a white male who spent over forty years never looking the way of a BW. It’s just how I was brought up – shamefully, I may add. And then, due to a sequence of events already specified here, I was privileged to spend a night with a BW. That was one of the best nights of my life in every respect. I found sweetness, passion, intelligence, humor, beauty, sensuality, companionship and heart. Yes, those are found with white women as well, but I did not know any of this existed with BW. I have since only dated BW, and I am not going anywhere else. In order to make up for lost time, I have encouraged several white friends to follow my path. All I can say is that Atlanta is feeling the heat big time, as white and black skin merge into couples having white hot sweet chocolate fun. Please do not feel bitter. Idiots will continue to be idiots of all colors – and no one should want to hang out with those people anyway. Allow those who are interested to taste the sweetness, and live your life with meaning, because so many of you got the spice!
LikeLike
I really like what lunadalaska said about us being the change instead of waiting around for it to smack us in the face! Something that also disturbs me is that some men are only interested in a black woman for her body. I mean yeah, we’ve got bangin’ bodies and we know how to work them, but black women (and women in general) are much more than T&A! We have beautiful minds and we enjoy many different types of things. i know personally that I have been sexually harassed many times even though I am young, but I think that people should really take the time to realize that black women are more than just sexual playthings. We’re much, MUCH more than that, and we deserve someone that can fully realize that! 🙂
LikeLike
This is truly a subjective topic.
The white men who i have known to go after black women usually go for the slim ones, with slightly large breast, a small round bottom and natural hair seemed to be a prerequisite for a serious relationship.
I rarely have seen white men with overweight or “thick” black women. Although i’m sure it exist somewhere.
Besides that they (white men) seem to choose black women who are attractive but within an average range. She just looks like an everyday black woman who isn’t too much into fashion, makeup or pretense.
In short, they go for the same black women that college educated and professional black men tend to go for. Black men have set the standard so to speak for white men who choose black women.
I know it sounds odd but its true.
But. . . there was this one time that i saw a rocker type white man and his black wife was a little on the thick side because she had a booty and she wore a weave. Then there was this white blonde guy i saw with his black wife and she was short and large with a weave. Still this is very rare but can happen.
LikeLike
im a white man and am attracted to all sorts of black women who dont fit in any particular description…… u cant be academic about attraction.
LikeLike
You must be one of those illiterate ones looking for a leg over.
LikeLike
well i am a man that is half white and half native American Indian. my wife is black and i love here with all my heart. i am however attracted to very curvy black women. i know you said most white men are not the same and i just wanted to let you know that i ain’t like most men. first of all i don’t consider myself white. i am native American Indian. second i have and i am attracted to women that are thick, juicy, voluptuous. i like for my women to have a big, juicy booty, some nice thick thighs, some big child bearing hips, i am talk’n about a big ol ghetto booty. also nice big thick lips for kissing and last, but certainly not least well endowed in the chest area. hair i don’t care about. the rest of the face like nose, or eyes not an issue with me either. skin color does not matter to me either, but i will say this. i do like the contrast of my skin color next to a woman that is darker. i already have a year around tan. my skin color is kind of olive color anyway and i don’t have the usual white features. also my great grandmother on my dads side was half black and half white. i have always been attracted to black women and even dated them. my family didn’t know until recently that i dated black women because it was not something that was allowed in our home. we could be friends with black people but not date them. what changed my families minds i don’t know, maybe it was me and how i always like to push the envelope as they say, or maybe it was the fact that i told them that not all black people are bad and they are people to, with feelings and emotions just like them. also it may have been the fact that my wife is very educated and a very driven lady. she has her bachelors degree in health care administration and plans to return to school and get her masters in psychology. my whole family just loves my wife and are very happy that i am happy. my wife does make more money than me but we don’t care about that. because we realize that there is more to life than money. like happiness, love, respect, understanding, communication, honesty and trust. those are the keys to any happy relationship, or marriage. you also need to have God in your lives as well and we do. a woman also needs personality. she could be the most beautiful woman in the world, but if her personality is bad then she is ugly to me. looks don’t always make the person. the same thing goes for men as well, but some women don’t see it like that. a guy could have an awesome personality, but maybe he is over weight, or balding, or maybe he has children and women will blow him off because of that, it’s not right, or maybe he don’t make enough money. i say none of those should matter. what matters is that you both are happy and get a long. if he’s got a job and can help contribute to the house hold income then what does it matter? i am so happy and thankful that, that stuff does not matter to my wife.
LikeLike
I find this topic to be enlightening. I am an educated black female whos preference if white men. I am very glad that this topic can be discussed and out in the open. I have been for a while very curious as to what white men DO find attractive. I find that even though alot of the things said are true in general location also has alot to do with attraction possibly in terms of what is socally acceptable among a specific group living in a certain area. For example when I lived in atlanta, GA I found that there seemed to be no apprehension or intemindation when it came to a white man approching me or attempting to flirt/get to know me, however when I moved back up north to ohio it wa sthe complete opposite the few times white men would EVER show interest would be through a wingman or a female friend we had in common. What might be some thought on this or anything ive said… help me to better understand please.
LikeLike
@Anne
I find in large cities like Atlanta, GA and Indianapolis, IN there is less concern for what is socially acceptable…but go to a small town in the north or the south Gas City, Indiana (where I am from) and Smiths Station, AL (where I lived a few years ago, and my children still go to school)and you will find the opposite.
LikeLike
@Michelle In those two small cities you described, is interracial dating still taboo?
LikeLike
From laromana:
lunadalaska says,
Laromana
We both agree no woman should be subjected to ill treatment. However at some point, as women, we have to be proactive. We have to stop waiting for the world to change — and be the change.
Don’t date men who disrespect you.
Don’t accept comments that cross the line.
Don’t allow men to bully you.
Don’t make excuses for bad behavior
Don’t play the victim.
THAT is how we change the world. It is a matter of personal choices. It is owning your own power. There is nothing more intimidating and attractive than a woman who owns her own power.
No one can change any other person. We can only change how we react to stupid.
laromana says,
The ONLY thing American men need to do (to help end the mistreatment of BW in relationships/culture/media) is CHOOSE to REJECT ANTI-BW BRAINWASHING/learn to treat BW with DIGNITY/RESPECT.
Otherwise, BW are intelligent enough to handle their own relationship lives.
LikeLike
wow o wow I am seventeen and I was just trying to find a love story or some about black and white relations. What I didn’t expect to find was the huge over blown debate on the net beside the bath salt epidimic… point is you guys have ruined it for me i’m nothing but a black teen attracted to a white boy but it’s like I go on the net and I feel like i’m being disected or something. I thought we were better than this… I know this world is not perfect when it comes to nationalities but I thought we were better than this.
LikeLike
well I am fro Cape Town South Africa and we have a lot of interracial couples down here…lol…its always a german guy most of the time with a blavk women…mostly a tall dark black woman with a weave…never one with natural hair but a glamorous model looking one.I have only seen one couple were the black girl was large and light skinned and the guys was white and very tall,emeo looking!!!! I love White men,never seem to attract any though…knew this guy from Norway I really liked at the beggining of this year but he really liked my ebony skinned friend who had braids at the time…but the minute she swapped the braids for a weave he kinder just lost interest in her…became sort of cold towards her where as before he was so fond of her….any input on this???
LikeLike
@ kimmmmy
I am guessing you are pretty young by your post. I dated two white guys in high school. The first guy moved way to fast and was focused on Marriage and we were only in 9th grade (found out after we broke up that that was his 2nd year in the 9th grade). The next guy was great. I could actually carry a conversation with him and he had hopes and dreams. I ended up marrying a Hispanic male though.
Anyway you should look for a man that shares your interest and not because he is white. You will spend a lifetime or a marriage riddled with disappointment if you do. Skin color should not be the reason to marry anyone. When I was young I though the same thing and when I realized they did not share my intellect they had to go. Wasted a lot of time on men that did not meet my standards.
LikeLike
@PrettyAfrican
Sorry…I just saw your question…
“@Michelle In those two small cities you described, is interracial dating still taboo?”
Gas City, Indiana…which was once an all white town, now has roughly 5% POC…not alot…but times are changing. Once POC didn’t step foot into the town unless it was night. But now POC are moving in and buying houses. As for the interracial dating…it is better than it was…but I think as the older generations have died off it has become more accepted. The last time I was there was 4 years ago and most of those couples still preferred to be out in public in the next town over, Marion, Indiana…where it has been accepted much more since I was 16 (21 years ago). As for Smiths Station…I don’t really go there other than to my kids school…I tend to stick to Phenix City, AL and Columbus, GA for shopping and entertainment and I see quite a few interracial couples and I, personally, have not seen any racial discrimination against them when I was present for about 2 years… I am not saying it doesn’t exist…but it is a big difference compared to a few years ago when I always witnessed some kind of crude behavior towards them.
LikeLike
I am a BW who is exclusively attracted to WM especially blonde hair blue eyed. I am in my early 50’s and it breaks my heart that I was never able to find a WM that was seriously interested in me for me and not just sex. I am attractive some may even say pretty but I have always had weight problems. As men are pretty much visual creatures I have always had problems attracting men period. BM don’t usually pay me any attention which is great because I am not attracted to them either.
LikeLike
@ aerokas
Before trying to date any man of any race you need to work on your self-esteem issues. One thing I can tell you from dating white guys is that they are not interested in black women with low self-esteem. You need to actually be confident in you and until you do that then they really aren’t going to find you interesting.
LikeLike
@ aerokas
I am not a white man so I can’t say with 100% certainty. I am also going to give you the same advice I gave a previous poster. You need to not date a man because he is white or just because he is blonde with blue eyes. You need to have common ground with him.
LikeLike
@aerokas
I am a BW who is exclusively attracted to WM especially blonde hair blue eyed.
Please heed Sharina’s advice. It is so limiting to ‘stick’ to one kind of person. Broaden your horizons – people comes in many ‘guises’ and it is more than the aesthetics that eventually lead to a pairing and love…..
LikeLike
I am going to assume that the few white men who like black women go for the certain kind of black woman that a small minority of black men say they are allergic to (e.g. educated, natural hair, opinionated). . . but i’m guessing though.
LikeLike
@phoebeprunelle
I have seen white men dating black women with natural hair…but I cannot testify to whether they were educated or opinionated since I never talked to them.
LikeLike
@phoebeprunelle
Maybe it varies from country to country but I have never noticed a standard type of black woman with a white man.
From dark to light, obese to slim, natural hair to processed hair, vulgar to serene, I have seen ALL kinds.
LikeLike
@Demerera,
Oh no sweetie. In the States, white guys who have decided to pursue black girls for serious relationships that could leave to marrige DO go for a certain type. She has to be slender, with or without large breasts, (big butt is out), her hair can be short, long or medium, but it must be natural (this keeps in line with a lot of middle class and university educated whites in the States “going green”), she has to value education, wear feminine styles (e.g. modest at the knee dresses, minimal make-up and jewelry). She also has to be open-minded about religion, because when they marry she has to convert to whatever his is anyway.
Besides that, her sexual history is a make or break deal. It is not ok for her to have been a little loose once upon a time and she can’t have any kids already.
This is sorta the same thing upper crust black men look for in black women.
LikeLike
^I meant lead to marriage.
LikeLike
thanks michelle! i just have this thought in my mind that if i were to ever date a white man in the south, especially one who’s form the south that we would get dirty looks and be discriminated against.
LikeLike
Maria said:
“I believe we African-American women in general need to stop pining for the attention of the white male”
It’s going to be a cold day in hell when that happens. A small amount of Black American women and Americanised black women have been socially conditioned to to pine for white men and think of them as their “saviors”.
You only need to look at the amount of BWE and BF/WM swirl websites talking about their “saviors” and how black men are as they say DBR (damaged beyond repair!)
Yet it’s these same women that will spit hellfire about BM/WF couples. How black men only date and prefer light skinned black women and they always seem to defend white men no matter what. They are usually the biggest hypocrites of them all.
LikeLike
I agree with you, to a point. I am a woman who dated white men exclusively before I married. It wasn’t because I had a “thing” for white men. I have a “thing” for intelligent men. That doesn’t mean that black men with an intellectual bend don’t exist. It is a matter of demography.
When you eliminate gay men, men involved in the criminal justice system, men who refuse to commit, me who will only date non-Black women (or near-white women) and married men there isn’t much left. Men who I are educated, highly intelligent and/or on a career track are a premium — and they know it.
I decided sitting at home, drowning my sorrows in fried chicken, and pining away for ANY man is not an option for me. When I let down my guard and began to live my life on my terms is when I began to attract white men. I will not apologize for finding the love of my life. His “packaging” is the least of my concerns.
I know that sexual attraction is part of the human experience. However it is highly immature to obsess over physical appearance. In the end, you can put a tuxedo on a jackass and he is still a jackass.
LikeLike
lunadalaska said:
When you eliminate gay men, men involved in the criminal justice system, men who refuse to commit, me who will only date non-Black women (or near-white women) and married men there isn’t much left. Men who I are educated, highly intelligent and/or on a career track are a premium — and they know it.
That statement just makes me laugh!
This is the same logic the BWE use. Let me break it down:
1. The Gay/Downlow Black Man – The thing is there are far more gay and closeted gay white men then there are black men. Yet why do they only go on about gay black men.
2. Criminals – I kinda agree with this. However, women in general have and always will be attracted to bad boys regardless of race.
3. “Black men are Commitmentphobes” – SMH Why do black women go on about this yet never look closer to home or other races of men? *Bitter BWE women* says, “Only Black men are commitmentphopes” SMH!
4. Black men only dating non Black women or Light skinned Black women – This is coming from the same person and I quote,
I am a woman who dated white men exclusively before I married.
I don’t think your one to talk my dear!
As for for the second part. Newsflash for all the BWE and bitter black women -LIGHTSKINNED BLACK WOMEN ARE STILL BLACK WOMEN. Also if you think that it’s only black men that practices colourism when it comes to women then you BWE and other bitter black women are simply deluded and need to take a trip to South, Southeast and East Asia.
5. Married Men – Watch out for them. You do know the biggest user of prostitutes are White Middle class, married men aged 30+,right.
I wonder if this will effect the BWE!? 😉
lunadalaska said:
I know that sexual attraction is part of the human experience. However it is highly immature to obsess over physical appearance. In the end, you can put a tuxedo on a jackass and he is still a jackass.
The sooner women learn from that statement, the easier their lives will be!
LikeLike
RRRIIIIIIIIIIGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHTTTTTTTTTTTT……………………..
Who would generally be in an part of town, or in a circle that you would not be a part of.
One percent of American black men. The doen-low myth was exploded by Keith Boykin.
Funny, seeing that white women say the same thing about their men (see books like the End of Men, Demise of Guys, Female Chauvinist Pigs, Guyland, Are Men Necessary etc.) Hell there’s a whole subgenre of books based on white middle class men refusing to grow up, and then being surpassed by their female counterparts. But consider this- in the United States, 48 states grant no fault divorce and lifetime alimony. 52 percent of marriages end in divorce. 80 percent of divorces are initiated by women. 80 percent of those divorces are based on irreconcilable differences. You don’t have to know stochastic calculus to realize that marriage is risk not worth taking for most men.
Personally, I think that you were always attracted to white men and had no inclination for black men, or men of any other race for that matter. Nothing wrong with that. Just don;t think that you can come to a bog and dis black men to cover up your lack of attraction to black men.
LikeLike
AGAIN, my experience has been based on DEMOGRAPHY. I work in an industry where there are few black men. I am not hitting the clubs cruising for white boys. I, like may people today, meet people through business contacts. It would be ridiculous for me to cut myself off from someone I share a real connection with because they don’t look the way others deem acceptable.
I am not bitter. The fact that I have been open to others– black, white, and all of the colors in between. I am well-traveled which has given me a world view, as opposed to a provincial take on life.
When I was a little girl I wanted to marry a man like my Uncle Rick. He was strong, highly ethical, intelligent, and devoted to family. I found and married that man. It is counter-intuitive to me to live my life to satisfy some political agenda.
LikeLike
Am I attracted to white men? Of course I am. I’m also attracted to black men, Asian men, native American men, and Latin men. I have lived in 7 states and 3 countries. I am one to appreciate beauty in whatever form it takes.
The great thing about travel is there are more commonalities in people than differences.
I will not apologize for love.
LikeLike
@ lunadalaska
As I would not expect you to apologize for who you love. I understand where you are coming from in that regard as I have been there.
LikeLike
On the previous episode of “black women that white men like.”
I wish that I could you could believe that statement you made about demographics, and no is asking you “to apologize for love.” But with blanket statements like these
I might just start have to agreeing with Uncle Ruckus.
LikeLike
@ satanforce
LOL that is all I can say to that clip.
LikeLike
Long time, no post. I just happen to be attracted to black women. INtelligent, independent, beautiful black women.
LikeLike
@phoebeprunelle…I tend to agree with Demerera on the notion that white guys like different types of Black women.
It sounds like you’re referring to a certain class or specific part of the US because I’m not sure that most white guys are so stringent in their requirements. I noticed a white man with his Black wife at the movies yesterday. They had a little girl about 4 years old. The woman was fairly average-looking, with smooth dark skin and short relaxed hair. She was curvy (not fat, but she had a big behind) and was about a size 12-14. Her clothes weren’t overly conservative but they weren’t flashy either. Perhaps she was well-educated and had the other qualities you mentioned, though.
Some white men prefer Black women with natural hair, while others don’t. I don’t think natural hair is a must…it is a choice. I will say, however, that some white guys like natural hair because it doesn’t have the chemical smell that relaxed hair has sometimes. I consider myself to be environmentally conscious but I still relax my hair.
I don’t believe that a big butt is “out” either. It depends on the guy and what he likes. Most white men like slim bodies with big boobs, but I’ve also met some who are really into girls with round hips and big butts.
My husband prefers a more conservative look when it comes to beauty/fashion, so you might be onto something there. But once more, it depends on the guy. I tend to have a pretty simple look and I don’t wear fake nails or a lot of jewelry. I wear very feminine clothes but I wouldn’t necessarily say that my style is overly conservative. I’m fairly slender with an average 36B cup size, but my hips and behind are curvy. I have long relaxed hair down my back. I’m not religious and neither is my husband.
Maybe for the white men who expect their Black wives or girlfriends to convert, it depends on the religion (like Catholicism or Orthodox Judaism or something). But I don’t think the majority of guys find it absolutely necessary.
I believe that most people value education and other stuff when they’re in serious relationships. I think that white guys who like Black women tend to go for sweet, shy girls…kind of bookworm types who are well-rounded and have diverse interests. Black women who read a lot and can hold stimulating conversations and are open-minded. I don’t think that most white men are into the kind of Black woman who is one-dimensional about stuff and shows no interest or knowledge in anything outside of her world.
Sexual history can be a tricky one. I believe that generally speaking, most men of ANY race would prefer that a woman not be too “experienced” if you know what I mean. And they would generally prefer a woman without children.
But it depends on the guy. Some guys don’t mind. I will admit that I was a bit, shall we say, “loose” before I settled down with my husband. He knew this before we were married. I didn’t pretend to be some pure, virginal girl who had never been with a man. So I think that makes a difference too. He didn’t judge me for it. He married me anyway. So I guess that it depends on the guy and his attitudes about sex or women. I don’t have kids, so that wasn’t a concern.
But you’ve raised some interesting points there.
LikeLike
^Obviously i did not say all white men who are in relationships with black women, i am only speaking of the white men that are in my graduate cohort… who have pursued or are currently pursuing black women.
I have not once seen them bring a black woman around as their date to our departmental potlucks with weaves, perms, blonde or red hair coloring, short skirts or tube tops. These black women have short to long naturals (e.g. fros or locs), i rarely have seen them wear slacks and if they do they are loose slacks. And they are slight to average built.
Asking my husband (and i didn’t know it at the time) these same reasons were why he pursued me and we are a black/black couple. My whole point was that black men have in many ways set the tone for white men that do pursue black women.
LikeLike
@ phoebeprunelle…OK, thanks for clarifying that. I don’t think that most well-educated men of any race would publicly date a woman like the one you described (weaves, skimpy clothes).
I guess I just assumed that your husband was white since you were kind of speaking with some authority on what most white guys want in a BW. But since you’re talking about the guys in your circle, fair enough.
LikeLike
I think though Bulanik, being in Europe–the experience and relationship between blacks and whites is slightly different. Yeah, the history of enslavement and colonizing is the same, but the Africans and blacks of Europe have largely retained a sorta authentic interpretation of black culture. This kinda means that whites in Europe are used to dealing with blacks on black terms.
In the States, it’s quite the opposite. Whites have dictated to blacks how to be, what to think and how to go about life.
LikeLike
@Bulanik
….(men of West, South and East Asia are SO bloody damn ignored on this blog, it’s criminal), ….
You mean like this guy…though his ancestry is part Jordanian…
http://trialx.com/celebrities/2011/07/21/t-j-ramini-pictures/
😉
LikeLike
@Bulanik
I don’t know: women vary so much. Men vary so much. Countries vary. It all varies too much to say there is a standard.
Co-sign
LikeLike
He’s ok… i mean he’s no Christopher Simpson. . .
http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/2/Open/Getty/Christopher%20Simpson/_derived_jpg_q90_410x410_m0/77530844.jpg?partner=allrovi.com
LikeLike
Bulanik,
Although i prefer black men and then other men of color, i have seen really, really good looking white men. They just aren’t number one for me because of well, the ones i have encountered seem to have a distant streak to them.
Anyway let’s carry on with the posting of other fine male specimens of color. . . .
A writer–i like intellectual and fine. . .
But hey Bulanik, don’t get your hopes up too high. . . i mean you know, black and other men of color don’t go for us black women! *sarcasm*
LikeLike
for me its black women or nothing im afraid. no compromise. they are so beautiful in every way its unreal. KADEN
Kaden co uk
LikeLike
…fetishizing the “exotic” hasn’t come up at all. In my experience, Black men were more hostile to my natural hair on the average than white men (stopping short of Black men who were very in tune with their Blackness). Yet, I can’t help but think that my education level (as discussed in the previous comments [since I’m a Ph.D. student]) and the exotic as erotic concept have mattered a good bit. I would chalk it up to having similar politics if that were the case, but I’ve been approached by white men of all political bents (as have my friends); I could also try to blame it on cultural appropriation, but in my case, that wasn’t it (although my cousin who is of a different SES HAS had that be the case). But in this discussion here, I’m not clear on whether everyone means the same thing by “African features”. I’ve seen PLENTY of white guys gravitate toward Black African women with stereotypically African features, but is the same true of women with African AMERICAN features? Even among Black people we have our own little conceptions of who looks “authentically” African and who’s “probably not from the US” and all that crap. With the diversity that is Blackness in the US at this point, why should I believe that men aren’t also making those connections? Being perceived as “African American” in appearance may carry negatives that aren’t present when you’re perceived as “African” in appearance.
All that said, I think natural hair in the US on Black women is perceived as an indicator of both SES and some degree of intellectualism or “culturedness”, somewhat a counterbalance to perceptions of Black women as “ghetto”. If this is actually the case, then it’s not that people are magically very open-minded now, but instead that they have reduced the space of “bad Blackness” to include “ghetto” and not “college-educated” or “cultured”. On top of that, there’s the opportunity to eroticize those who can be deemed exotic; in this case, I’m suggesting that Black women who are perceived to be less “boring” Black (read: African American) or less “ghetto” Black can be viewed as appealing while dropping off many of the negative stereotypes other Black women are ascribed.
If it matters, I’m a supposedly light-skinned Black woman with heritage pretty much exclusively that is African-American. White people outside of my rural hometown usually think I’m at least half white (some even fight me when I explain both of my parents are Black), back home EVERYONE just “knows” I’m Black, and (until I went natural) non-Black people generally thought I was Latina (including actual Latino people). Regardless of where I’ve been, though, no Black person has ever thought I WASN’T African-American. The white men who tried to pick me up usually didn’t even make it to date #1 because they made it obvious that they engaged in the “exotic as erotic” mentality and the one white guy I dated was when I had natural, not-locked hair and he slipped up and said I wasn’t “obviously” Black. I have locs now and the only white men approaching me are ones who seem to think we share a political view (unlike before).
LikeLike
I’m going way, WAY back to the 2009 portion of this thread. Earlier, the discussion was primarily about American black women and white men. I am a very fair skinned, slender black woman with my own, long ( waist length) hair and more Eurocentric features . I am of mixed race ancestry, but I look biracial. I have been approached by just about all ethnicities of men and I have dated both black and white men. I think that one reason you often see white men with darker black women is that fair skinned black women tend to prefer black men and we don’t have to compete with white women for black men’s attention. Fair skinned black females are also relatively rare compared to white women and dark skinned black women. I agree that it’s unfair, but if you are a slender, light skinned, attractive black woman you can basically pick and choose. This type of woman usually chooses black men. Also, there is a type of white man who just wants to “dip his baby toe” into darker waters. This type of guy likes his black women slim, with long straighter hair and Euro features.
LikeLike
I forgot to mention that I have been happily married to a black man for the past 11 years, so I’m looking through the prism of past experience.
LikeLike
@Jasmine, WOw ok. IT depends on the man himdelf and what he likes. around me bf neighborhood and around my college campuses, it varies. but i havr seen more whit emenwith darker women and they did not necessarily have long straight hair. but you are right about being thin or petitie and being in shape though. I look nothing thin nor bi-racial and i attract white men mostly
LikeLike
@ Jasmin
I think some light skinned women like to think they are more of a hot commodity than they really are. I am brown-skinned myself and have no problem attracting men of any race. I have seen white men with thick black women, I have seen white men with slim in shape blacks (this more so), and the list goes on. I agree with Wendy when she says it really depends on the guy. I have had two white boyfriends. One ready to take it to the next level and the other I did not give the chance to. I am slim, but also very curvy. Can’t really attest to this super slim type the white men supposedly like. I do have long hair but I tend to cut it or pin it up. I don’t think I have euro features that would stand out enough in my opinion. some say my nose but hey not something I care about.
As far as black guys…I caught the attention of plenty, but none that lived up to my standards.
An acquaintance of mine (mixed girl) stated that the white guys only date her because they want a black girl but don’t want to meet too much disapproval from their parents.
LikeLike
@ Jasmin
As a side note I am not really sure if you comment was meant to be helpful to the women on the board or toot too much of your own horn, but it is that type of rude and down right ignorant that separate black women. Like skinned-females that some how believe they are better because of their skin color.
This is why other light-skinned females get bad reps because of the ones like you. try some humility. Because at the end of the day…You are still black and no amount of white-washing is going to make white men see you any different than any other black girl.
LikeLike
Not touting or tooting. Didn’t imply that brown skinned women have any problems doing anything. I don’t know what your experiences are. I’m only speaking of my own. I look like what i look like. FWiW, I also happen to be a former Ebony Fashion Fair model. Now that is doing a little tooting.
Hmmmm. Touchy, aren’t we?
LikeLike
@ Sharina,
What is it that I am supposed to help with? Finding a white man?
You are reading things into what I wrote. And yes, I love being black. As I recall. I mentioned it in my post. Sorry if you don’t like my tone. C’est la Guerre.
LikeLike
@ Jasmin
Take 5 seconds to go back and read what you typed. You come off as very shallow and ignorant and not showing it as your experience. If you read Wendy’s follow-up you will notice that. Thus the “WOW ok” amoung other indicators. I am sure other readers see the same.
This is not me being touchy it is pointing out that you are not a humble person. If I was touchy I can promise you anything I say would not come off in the kind manner that I put it. I am just giving you some advice, but because you are so far up your own but…I guess you failed to see that. Carry on until someone starts to really say something you don’t like.
Also I could care less if you were Tyra Banks herself, If you are ignorant then you are ignorant.
LikeLike
TOT, but my point is that BLACK MEN who are attracted to white women or NON black women are often also attracted to very fair African American women with European features. Thus includes biracial and mixed race women. Some white men are attracted to more African features, some prefer black women who are less black looking. I’m sure that there are men out there
who are not attracted to light skinned women, but then, I wouldn’ t know THEM, would I?
LikeLike
Oooooo, VERY, VERY TOUCHY. LOL.
LikeLike
@ Jasmin
“TOT, but my point is that BLACK MEN who are attracted to white women or NON black women are often also attracted to very fair African American women with European feature”—That is not always the case. Just as it is not always the case with White men. This is why I agree fully with Wendy when she says “IT depends on the man himdelf and what he likes.” Most black men are attracted to women period. My mother is light-skinned with mixed features, but that did not stop my father from divorcing her and marrying a Dark-skinned woman. He was still attracted to her, so what real point are you making?
You are making it sound like they are only attracted to that particular type of woman.
LikeLike
@ Jasmin
Can you act like an adult? It is annoying trying to have a conversation with someone who wants to stoop to 12 year old status. My cat claws are far from out. Especially seeing as they are not necessary. I get the feeling you hate people pointing out your flaws though. We all have them and no one is perfect, so do get over it.
LikeLike
@sharina,
Unlike you, dear Sharina, i am well able to handle it when someone says something that I don’t like. I haven’t called you a name yet, have I ? And, I will not.
LikeLike
But, you see, I must be honest with you. You are very rude and because of that I don’t want to have a conversation with you. We have nothing to discuss.
LikeLike
@ Jasmin
You are free to do what you like; just as you are free to take the meaning of ignorant, shallow and not being humble any way you like.
I could care less if you disagree. Many have disagreed with me, but the big difference between you and them is they were very humble and presented themselves in an manner of open learning through conversation.
You are not very humble in a lot of things you say you come off very arrogant, so this is what you are doing yet you see it as you giving friendly advice. Ok you are free to see it that way too, but that does not mean I have to see it the way you want to. I do have my own experiences too you know. I just don’t tell people “This is the way it is, I know it is not fair but that is the way it is.”
LikeLike
@ Jasmin
This is a blog where people debate. It is not my job to sugar coat and pat you on the back. If you were less of a snob I may have though. Carry on.
LikeLike
Jasmin, you were a former Fashion Fair Model?!! How cool!
I think that there is a man for everyone out there. I agree, Sharina.
LikeLike
@ Jasmine so being a former model means that you know best. lol American light skinned women make me laugh sometimes. Let me ask you that many of the highest paid black models look bi-racial? America tends to discriminate of skin colour and would c alot of light skinned women and so forth. But i have noticed that alot of high fashion models tend to be very dark and are in high demand. So why are you even bringing that up? As long as you do not come of as threatening and look and act nice white men would talk to you.
LikeLike
Hello everyone: I am a white male married to a black woman. And I was raised in Maine USA. I was walking through a Kmart store and seen this beautiful dark skinned black woman with full lips, and as a Butt man as she walked by I was was totally turned on by her smile and her butt. I approached her and we talked for a while. I gave her my business card and asked her to call me if she would like to get to know me as much as I wanted to get to know her. She called me 2 days later. We got married a while after that and honestly I could not complain at all. We have been together 3+ years since we met and the only thing that I could complain about is the way some folks look at us when we are out together. But I deal with it and its worth it.
LikeLike
Hello, I am a BF who intentionally looked up this topic. I just needed answers! I recently enrolled in a university where there is a great mixture of ethnicity. However, I am constantly being stared at, BUT most often not approached however, by WM. There was one WM however who I have noted over sometime has pointedly been staring. He approached me one day and asked the time…………. his watch was on his hand. I am slim,of a caramel complexion, wears my hair natural and considered to be quite pretty. I feel more at ease and confident in being simple also. On the reverse, most time when I do get attention from BM is when my behind is being commented on; which is considered “too much” for someone of my size.
I’ve read a good amount of the post and at this point have to agree that perhaps just perhaps the description of the slim frame, natural hair, soft features do have some merit…………….
LikeLike
@ justwondering
It depends on the guy and if you read Mark’s post then you will realize that. I think Mark made a very good point to follow and his point is from a white mans point of view.
LikeLike
I think secretly many white men fantasize about thick black chicks but to be politically correct with fam etc would date a slender black girl because thickness in euopean society is often married with people who just eat whatever and do not work out , which equals lower class
LikeLike
I can’t speak for anyone other then myself but my wife is thin and small breasted but has a black woman’s butt and I personally do not care for big breasts to me they make a woman look chubby. Now that does not mean I like boy boobs either. A c cup is as big as I prefer. Too skinny is just not sexy either.
LikeLike
Guten Tag Leute!! So, we see here that there are many preferences. That is what makes it so special. And it is wonderful that bw and wm can have that special something between them. There is always someone for everybody, if we just stop being so damn picky. Okay, where are the German and Dutch men? ;))
LikeLike
I am a half white half Hispanic male and have many friends that like the way black women look there is no secret there that we men like WOMEN wow huge revelation there even if they are white, Hispanic, black, Asian, etc…
My wife is dark, overweight but carries her weight amazingly. She has a kinda flat booty wish it were curvy, but her best feature by far besides her beautiful skin color is drum roll please……….Her massive F chest which is round and when she is laying down on her back or on top they just look AMAZING! I am a boob man though. Which brings me to my point every man is different regardless of their color they like different things.
And since there is such a range of black women’s bodies out there that means there is a man that likes every different type of body shape and personal physical attribute.
So ladies don’t ever worry about your body we men love the female body and shapes. It doesn’t get hard because we don’t like what we see LOL.
LikeLike
My god….size F. her poor back! Anyways, half black/half white chick here! Thank you so much for posting this thread. as a biracial chick, it’s not hard finding guys that are of multiple races, the biggest problem is being thought of as just one race, when in fact, I’m multiple. I love my skin color, I love my features, but I hate talking to a guy I’m interested in and having them say things like ‘sorry I can’t dance well. I’m white” or “You must think I’m so white…” or “of course you dance well, you’re black”, “you talk like a white girl”, “how can you like rock music if you’re black” etc (insert any behavior that is tied to race whether it’s negative or positive). I was even asked how my sexual appetite was because I was black, which is just a weird thing to ask! I dont know why race has to be so restrictive when we’re finding partners. Hopefully when I travel to Puerto Rico in two weeks I’ll find the locals a lot less focused on my outward appearance and perceived ‘ethnicity’ and more on my individuality. Thanks again for writing this thread and all the people that commented (I obviously didn’t go through every one, but the ones I did go through were great!)
LikeLike
Well Kendra, even if Bi-racial designations became even more widely accepted, I’m not sure that your problem would be solved….
Ask yourself, if these statements are any better?
“Your black HALF must think that I’m so white…”
“Of course you dance well, you’re HALF black!”
“How can you like rock if you’re HALF black? You should only HALF like it”
etc.
I assume that you recognize that the pressing issue (in all of these cases) is your “blackness”, not so much your mixedness. Every case that you stated above is based on a Black stereotype, NONE of them are based on your White half, so to speak. So you are basically simply dealing with the same old ridiculous issues that fully phenotypically Black people have to deal with. Sadly, it just comes with the territory. But I agree that it will be nice when outward appearance and perceived ‘ethnicity’ becomes less divisive.
LikeLike
Pretty accurate article. I’m a white man dating a black woman. Definitely not into the big ass that so many black men seem to like. I like petite women and I’ve seen many a black woman with a behind that is simply TOO MUCH. At a certain point it looks odd and way too exaggerated; whereas I will hear black men comment on similarly shaped women or even directly on that same woman. I don’t get it.
As for hair, I prefer straight “white” hair but natural is fine too, as long as I’m allowed to touch their curls (which most are not fond of, sadly). Skin is not important, as you said. Really dark skin looks good to me.
However, I must disagree with your pictures. I am attracted to almost all of those women. And we never really WANT to introduce a black girlfriend to our parents no matter what she looks like, especially the first time. (No offense intended, just telling it like it is; no matter how much we like you, our parents will probably not be happy with it.)
My 2 cents.
LikeLike
@ Richard
No offense but i think you should stick to your own kind. I do no normally say this to people, but you sound like one of those white guys who with black girls just to say the have been with one. but turn around and marry a white woman when you want to get serious.
LikeLike
Good day I am so happy I found your site, with so many
asian girl black guy I really found you by error,
while I was browsing on Aol for something else, Nonetheless I am here now and would
just like to say many thanks for a great video collection of remarkable hot
asian girls post and a all round thrilling blog
LikeLike
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm? If you have MORE concern for what someone will SAY/THINK about the person you are dating, you SIMPLY have no business dating that person. Period! Be they GAY, outside your race or physically challenged. If this is the case… that person is merely a prop in your SELFISH play.
LikeLike
I’m white man i love black women with deep dark skin and very huge afro hair sixties style. Man that’s hot!
LikeLike
This whole article was silly. I am a WM from the USA engaged to to a wonderful lady from Uganda and I plan to move there to Uganda. My wife to be really dislikes the way Americans see a people skin color and tend to form judgments based on that. We prefer to be color blind. Where in this article did one talk about the heart and personalities. We see with our minds and our hearts and not our eyes. I will be adopting my wife’s daughter and she will be seen as my blood in my eyes. I will be a proud husband and father. Color of one’s skin? Who cares but, the small minded. So this article was written for the small minded? Remember when the lights go out…we all are the same color.
LikeLike
@Robert Mazur
I have to ask if you actually read the article at all? Based on your comment you failed to read two key notes…. “I know all white men are not alike and These are just some notes and observations of what I have noticed in New York.” The article is based on what he has observed and not facts. So I think in your attempt to act superior that you showed the be pretty small minded.
The author also went on to further say “If any black women or white men want to add their own general observations that would be great.” Which is nice that you did, but it did not require you to insult the author or other readers because your failed to read several key things that he said.
LikeLike
Abagond sade is an example of a biracial/black women many white men would seriously date because she is slim, classy & beautiful. I have known of several white men normally of middle age who were at their prime in the eighties (young men normally haven’t heard of here) who quote her as one the most beautiful women.
LikeLike
In my opinion it all boils down to whether or not a white man is passive in his attraction to black women or dominant in his attraction to black women. If a white man is still very attracted to white women and is also attracted to black women he may go for a lighter skinned black women, however, in my opinion, white men who are not attracted to white women and are only attracted to black women tend to go for darker skin, natural hair and the typical black women figure. Now that only makes sense. One of the main reasons that alot of black men make such a big deal about being with a lighter skinned woman is that it gives them the illusion of being with a white woman, without jeopardizing all of the features that they like in black women, so in a sense having their cake and eating it to. I am a medium brown complexion, 5’6 170 all in the right places natural hair most of the time sometimes not, i have always been approached by white men, which is why i decided to start dating them…i will not date a white guy who reminds me of a black guy in any way, which is why i can understand why alot of white men that i see are usually with black women who are more on the darker side as opposed to light bright and close to white. I dont know how many times ive heard a white man say that they love the way my hair feels (when its natural) so there you have it…but there are always exceptions, people are attracted to different things.
LikeLike
I can’t really tell the difference between the first group of black women and the second group. Barr the woman in the African head dress, I think they’re all good looking women.
I agree with your points about white taste in black women, at least on a personal level I do. I do like the slimmer black women and I love their natural hair and not just because it’s a signifier of a better education. In fact, I think women with bald heads are dead sexy, tight afros, too. I don’t like the idea of artificiality in a partner, whether it’s hair extensions, weaves, botox, spray tans, skin lighteners or even excessive beauty regimes. I want any woman I go with to be as nature intended but with shaved legs! I don’t know whether I have a preference for colour, I know I have found all shades sexy but have only ever went out with lighter skinned black women.
LikeLike
it all boils down to the white men looking like this with a big pay cheque!
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=OqMYhv6x96k)
If that one is not available I’ll take this one with one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_Buffett
Besides, it’s better to be an old man’s sweetheart than a young man’s slave! Girls listen up, this advice has served me well through several marriages and countless alimony cheques! It’s not the colour, it’s the paycheque!
LikeLike
@Herneith,
I think you’ve just turned me into a homosexual! Boy, he was a good looking chap, wasn’t he.
LikeLike
Whoa, Steve Reeves! What a gorgeous physique. Looks like old footage though, 40’s-50’s maybe. If he’s even still alive and kicking, Reeves now is probably no better looking than Warren Buffet.
LikeLike
To Avaan, I agree with some of your story, however as a WM married to a BW I never felt this fear of being accepted or any other fear regarding my wife being black. (former Army Green Beret don’t have a lot of fears) What I would like to point out is this: It is a psycological fact that most men don’t reach full maturity levels till 35 therefore your basing your thoughts on teenagers and not actual men. I am not saying to date guys much older I am simply stating a fact. You are correct in saying you don’t see many bw with wm though.
When My wife and I first started dating we went to a restaurant and I noticed the way people looked at us both black and white people and it angered me.
But my (now) wife told me to ignore it she was used to it. Her strength strengthening me, lol. One other thing, don’t look for love let it find you, be friendly and fun and beautiful and let it happen. Good Luck
LikeLike
@ Natalie Friday the 15th comment
I agree with you 100% I used to comment back in 2009 and came across this blog again in 2013 and reading through the latest comments I find it interesting that mixed race females are so upset and annoyed that they are not getting attention from a lot of white men that they would have hoped but black men love them and they seem to be blaming the fact they are part black for this. When 100% black females get ignored by black men as well as other races for years.
Mixed race females should be grateful to have a mix of races within them because they are always excepted whether it’s society or the media you hardly hear anyone making negative comments on mixed race girls and this is from experience and what I’ve asked mixed race people themselves.
LikeLike
@ Natalie Friday 15th July 2011 comment
LikeLike
As a Black female of almost eighteen, I am thinking of moving onto White guys but based on Abagond’s post, I do fit the some of the things that Abagond listed that White men liked in a Black woman. I have natural hair, I am slender instead of thick and I am of darker complexion. I am a huge fan of Rock music especially Classic Rock.
But everyone has their preferences.
LikeLike
@ Maria and Prettyafrican 30th Mar 2012 comments
I take great offence to what you said especially you Maria my parents are Nigerian and they have very fine features. My mum has natural fine textured hair half way down her back. I hate when people label all west Africans to have broad noses big lips etc
I was born and grew up in London and I have very fine features small mouth but full lips, thin nose, slim body frame even though I am tall 5’8 weigh 130 pounds etc and I’ve been mistaken for other races and they are surprised when I say I am 100% Nigerian.
Also you say that we are abrasive and aggressive which is untrue you will find that in all groups of people. maybe you are confusing Nigerians with Ghanians.
Nigerians have the most interesting and funniest personalities yes they can be a bit loud sometimes but you have to be in this world or people will just forget about you. A Somalian guy at work even complained about his partner saying she moans and he’s looking for a new wife and that she’s not as funny and nice as I am.
Also what do you mean by East African are more “thinkers” are you trying to say that you are smarter than West Africans because that is not the case, every race or culture can be “thinkers”
Nigerian people in the UK are in the highest positions in a lot of companies including jobs from lawyers to doctors and there was a poll a few years ago that NIGERIAN people were the highest group attending the most prestigious universities in America. You can search it yourself if you do not believe me.
That’s the problem with certain east Africans especially the women they give out this stuck up attitude that they are better than west African people because of their so called fine features when we should not be fighting with each other but working together. That’s why alot of east Africa is still underdeveloped if you stopped fighting and sorted out a plan you would have used your resources for good.
You sound immature to label a group of people when you have not met every single Nigerian in the world.
LikeLike
Also I am quiet and very elegant in my demeanor and have values and respect only because we don’t have loads of kids by the age of 35.
LikeLike
@ Anna 7th Apr 2012
Thank God someone said it I just read your comment after I was disgusted by what Maria and prettyafrican wrote and had to reply instantly. I’m not surprised other west Africans are offended.
LikeLike
Thanks for another informative website. Where else may I am getting that
type of info written in such an ideal approach? I have a project
that I am just now operating on, and I have been at the look out for
such info.
LikeLike
I am mid 50’s white guy from Toronto Canada… We have people from all over here but not so many black people as in USA… a pity… where might a single guy meet ladies of colour?
LikeLike
You are full of it. There are plenty of black women in Toronto. Maybe they aren’t interested in you. You are probably from the GTA or Burlington, Barrie, or the like. If you really are interested you could always go to the back of the NOW magazine and answer some of those ads.
LikeLike
I can’t believe this blog is still going. LOL
LikeLike
While I can’t speak for all white dudes, I will say that in my case, at least, you’re right about the skinny thing. I prefer women who are thin, short and just small in general, regardless of what race they are. However, several of my white male friends actually make fun of me for liking skinny girls.
LikeLike
Why such a focus on what type of black women white men like? What about the types of men black women like?
I am currently dating an Asian man, so it is not always about black and white.
LikeLike
I think a lot of white men are attracted to and interested in black women, especially here in South Africa. However, they simply are too afraid of what society will say. Its very sad because I feel that in many ways black woman and white men in this modern society make the best combination.
LikeLike
I am a big black woman and I am harassed daily by skinny white boyz that i used to think dont like me therefore never even ask myself if i like them.
But apparently they do now and I do lol…It must be the boobies and the pretty face and cushionny body lol
I think these stigma existed once but not anymore…I came to be 80% attracted to skinny white boyz lol. And before not. I think we tend to like what likes us. We love what loves us…we go where love is…and it grows on us.
The momentum of culture always has something to do with popularity. Something rare catch up with the mass once its promoted to the mass and black has been hot!!! So its only natural what iconic be the object of cultural affection…Something may not be popular and 10 years later we cant imagine why was it never popular before…I love my skinny white boyz lol
LikeLike
As a Canadian, I have dated many BW, it’s just my opinion. But when it comes to beauty, I find the darker the lady is , the more attactive she is to me. I’m a small white male about 5″6 in height & weigh about 138 lbs. Most of the BW I have dated are alway’s taller than me and weigh a bit more as well, which i like & have no problem with. I find BW much more attactive than white women & I haven’t dated a white woman for about 9 years now. And I find the BW’s culture very interesting. When it comes to a white women, I found “Expectations”of a man are set to high.& it started to turn me off, so I stopped dating them & I’m glad I did. Thats one thing I love about Toronto, Canada, it a very deversified country & there’s many beautiful Black, Asian & indian ladies here., But don’t get me wrong either, I like light skinned Bw as well. I like a Black female to be about 5″7 in height, and weigh around 148-153 lbs & love the smell & feel of there soft skin.I like a thick lady…As for tyra Bank’s, yes she is a real “Cutie”. But like they say: Beauty is in the eye of the beholder” I know in the states there still seems to be some racial hang-ups & stigma surround this. A lady I dated from Tennisee told me a lot about this. Hope I could answere a few of your concern’s. Cheer’s, Paul in TO
LikeLike
I am head over heals over a Black women who is a checker at a supermarket. I mean I’m knocked out every time I see her let alone speak to, because she is intelligent, witty, utterly enthralling, enchanting, charming, very attractive and as black as my keyboard and the iris of her eyes so dark they look black. She is probably 5′-8″, lithe at 135, with nice curves in the right places and her overall features appear European. I don’t know much about that stuff, so I’m not going to dwell on it. I know I was first attracted by her friendliness, spark of life, intelligence and wit and then noticed she had it all. I haven’t asked her out yet, but was pretty emboldened on two occasions last week, because she seems to appreciate me looking her up whenever I’m there. There is a rather big age difference heavily on my side, but I sense she isn’t seeing it as a problem even though I do. I will be very happy to just get to know her better and spend some time together. If it doesn’t go any further than friendship I figure I am lucky and I really don’t want to try and tie her down with me at my age. I think she will be a good friend and that is what I really want. A great looking dish to spend time with.
LikeLike
it’s 4 am, I just read this entire blog and I felt the need to chime in my 2cents of nonsense. I’m a 38 yr old 6ft tattooed white guy who has dated a few women of various race and tone. white. japanese, hispanic and black (can’t help it I just love women). for myself the main attraction to BW is the fact that they are more aggressive than other women seem to be, when they want something they go after it. The features of a black woman never really crossed my mind. I do find Kelly Rowland incredibly attractive I have also had an “adolescent type” crush on Dana Elaine Owens for years. What I find most attractive in women regardless of race is a joyful attitude not weighed down with anger, worry or despair.
LikeLike
I’d like to read all the comments but wow.. too much I just can’t!
I am an African Black women who live in France (so, sorry for my english or my bad grammar). I am more attracted to white men than any other men simply because I grew up around them. It took me a long time to realise and admit it because I firstly really didn’t want to have this preferencebut guess what.. TV won! That doesn’t mean that I am not attracted to non-white men. I am attracted to all men but i can’t deny the fact that i am more attracted to white guys.
I attract all men but i noticed White men are those I attract the most. Maybe it has to do with my physic. You know, I’m the model-look Black woman type: thin, tall (5.8). I am also dark skinned, and i have slim African features. I don’t know if you know what I mean when i say “slim african features”. For example: I have a small cute nose but it still look really negroïd, I never saw a white person with this type of nose”. A lot of people think negroid feature are automatically wild nose, big lips etc. They don’t know how african/negroid feature can be diverse!
I only attract African men who live in the continent, rarely those who live in France or in Europe.. I don’t know why.
Even if I attract a lot of white men, I know that, IN GENERAL, white men don’t like Black women or more precisely African women
I think AA women who wwant to date IR should plan a trip in Europe.
I don’t think they prefer darker women in France. I heard a lot ot time, some white guys (most of the time, the young ones) saying things like “Black women? ewww! They [insert a list of stereotypes]. Nah, she have to be at least biracial/mixed or an African American” They’ll prefer AA women because they have that “America fantasm”. Some of them think that AA women are prettier because they have a lil’ of white blood in them because of slavery so they think you look lighter (yeah.. the ignorant ones think Africans only look dark as night, with a wild wild wild nose and if you’re not dark as night so you’re not a “pure” african which annoy me because some people say that I ” look like a Afro-American” and except me to take it as a compliment. Why? Because I have a small nose etc. Ignorant are everywhere!!!!!). YET, what I described are the ignorant ones! White men in France are not all like that!
I think, in France, biracial women are more praised than African women because 1. there’s this stupid “biracial babies are better and prettier” propaganda 2. Africans have bad stereotype too here 3. biracial women are more close to white.
So, in conclusion, I maybe attact White men but , in France, biracial/mixed women are more praised!
Maybe I am wrong but this is what i feel..
LikeLike
I like your comment about women and especially black women. Sometimes due to circumstances, the “attitudes” come off a little strong. We as black women can get a bad reputation. But people sometimes forget is that along with that “attitude”(which by the way is a form of survival) comes the strength and love that makes us who we are. I as a black women may have that “attitude” but only if I am cornered or pushed too far. I like to think that I also have the strength, love and intelligence to carry anything else that goes along with it. 😉
LikeLike
To respond to FrenchAfricanG, I’m also a French black girl born and raised in Paris. I lived a few years in California and I have to disagree with some things that you said. If it’s true that most white men don’t go for black women in general, French white men are far more open minded when it comes to dating black women, especially African women.
I came back to France a few months ago and I observed White man/Black woman couples almost every single day – I saw BW/WM pairings as much (if not more) as I saw WW/BM pairings and I saw them FAR more than AW/WM pairings. It was very different when I lived in the US as I saw way more AW/WM and WW/BM couples than BW/WM couples.
BW/WM couples are WAY more common in France yet the USA are more than 17 times bigger than France. The only common thing I noticed between these couples in France and in the US is that most of the time, the girl is brown to dark-skinned.
I’m the kind of black girl with the typical negroid appearance; brown-skinned, wide nose, plump lips, high cheekbones, almond-shaped eyes, voluptuous hourglass shape (39-29-39), my hair are not relaxed but braided and I attracted both white and black men from Europe, the US and Latin America.
BTW, I went back to California two weeks ago for a very short vacation and black (American) men approached me almost every day to tell me I’m beautiful. White men seemed to stare at me but didn’t say anything. I’m not light-skinned, I’m not mixed and I’m curvy – both my parents are West Africans from three countries.
It is interesting how Abagond pointed out that American white men prize whiteness in the black women they choose to date and/or marry because I do the exact opposite when I go for white men.
When I go for white men, I prize blackness. The white men I’m attracted to have brown/ black eyes and they tend to have black hair. I don’t care about hair texture but the blacker, the better. Brown to dark brown hair is ok but anything lighter than that would turn me off. Blue, green and other shades of light eyes don’t do it for me too. I once dated a French guy with blue eyes but it was acceptable since he had black hair.
I don’t really care about skin tone either as long as the facial features (eyes, hair) are black. A broad nose and full lips are a plus.
I find myself attracted the most to white men that are mixed and have sub-Saharan African ancestry in their bloodline. This is probably why I think the hottest white men are from Portugal, Brazil, Italy and Spain. I won’t mention North African arabic men because they’re not considered whites in France.
LikeLike
@Déborah, Of course white French men are faaaar more open minded than white american men.
I live in a small city of France (but I’ll move in Lyon soon) so I think that’s why i rarely see BW/WM couples but when I go to a bigger city i notice that too.
I agree with you but White men are confusing because I ALWAYS hear from their mouth that if they have to date a Black girl, she has to be mixed/ or “not dark-dark” but when I see a white man with his black GF walking on the street, the girl is brown/dark skinned. But, like i said on my last comment, i think it’s mostly the younger ones (teen white boys) who make that statement. When I see a BW/WM couple, they are in their 20s or more most of the time but I rarely saw BW/WM teenage couple, did you? I’d like to know.
I think tennage white boys are afraid or aren’t interested in IR dating, in general and prefer just being in the “norm” by dating a white girl. It’s only when they grew up, and go to college, or move on a bigger city, they start to don’t care about the girl’s skin color…
LikeLike
@FrenchAfricanG
Ok, you live in a smaller city so that must explain why you don’t see BW/WM couples as much. Once you move to Lyon, I’m sure you’ll see them more often.
I agree with you when you say that BW/WM in France are mostly in their 20’s.
I know other cases where French white guys will have his (white) children with (white) women and then settle down with a black woman. Those men are usually from their early 30’s to much much older. I find this disgusting and racist but at least, in the cases I’ve known in real life, the black women were their age, not half their age.
When I was in middle school or even in high school, I’ve never seen a black female teenager with a white man or any non-black man for that matter.
And like you said, I think most of those white male teenagers want to fit in so they date the cute little blond or brunette girl to be in the norm.
I think in some cases they aren’t interested/attracted and in some cases they are afraid.
When they grow older and go to college, they are more independent-minded so they don’t let things as trivial as ethnicity get in their way when they want to be with a woman.
But what I say is only valid for France. When I went to the US, I found American college men to be much more immature than your average French college men. Sometimes, I felt like I was still in high school and I couldn’t believe I was with people around my age. And it’s very surprising because much older people from all ages attend American colleges/universities (unlike French universities) so I expected them to be at least more mature than French college men. It’s actually the opposite. I don’t mean to be rude or offend anybody but it’s just what I observed.
So in a way, I shouldn’t be surprised if I didn’t see many American BW/WM couples in their 20’s because of what you pointed out about (immature) teenage boys. And if you add the obsession with race in the US, it makes even more sense why you don’t often see BW/WM pairings from all ages.
LikeLike
From a white guy….
One of the hottest girls I have ever seen and met was a black girl in my freshman English class….just wow. I didn’t really see her a “black girl” or a “hot black girl”, but just hot. Does that make sense? Personally, for me, I like a girl who takes car of herself and is fit. I know there are a lot of black ladies who describe themselves as “thick”, OK so I have to admit I wouldn’t be into that. But taking care of yourself and being fit is important, black or white. I don’t look at skin tone as much or hair, but I do like long hair on any woman, as a preference. I have to say this is way down the list, but I suppose I probably like more ‘diminished’ facial features, if I am being honest, but again, down on the list.
I can think of 2 hot black ladies that I see now on a regular basis. They do different things with their hair from time to time. I notice, but doing one thing or another doesn’t change my perception. I suppose one has a little darker skin tone, but I don’t notice. They are both fit and I find them both extremely attractive.
LikeLike
John J said:
“I know there are a lot of black ladies who describe themselves as “thick”. ”
Assuming you’re not referring to fat girls who use the word “thick” to feel good about themselves, then you can still be thick and fit.
No matter how much weight I lose I will always have thick thighs and a butt that sticks out even though it may be smaller with weight loss.
Having thick thighs, a butt that sticks out, decent boobs along with a flat stomach does NOT make you fat.
White people have to accept some people are not built to be stick thin, my bone structure would NEVER allow that no matter how much I slim down.
Just because you’re over a size 4 doesn’t mean you’re fat or unfit. Smh.
LikeLike
@Deborah
I know live in Lyon and like I see IR couple like.. EVERYDAYS, there’s a lot of BW/WM couples though..
Yeah when I wsa in Highschool, I used to be insecure because of that. I mean even if people compliment me, I was still single, and you know in HS there’s this “pressure” who make you think that you have to have a BF.. I was in a predominatly white shcool so I was constantly wondering what was wrong with me… until I thought that maybe it was because I was Black.. I refused to think that way but in the other hands… it made sense, like boys were afraid of me, some look or were interested but never had the courage to go futher with me and ask me out.. and some just wanted sex.. And at this time, as a teenage girl, it really hurts.. I thought it was so unfair, that my white girls friends had a BF so easly whithout making any effort whereas I was struggling to be loved… but I understood this white boys at the same time. Like, It was a HS located in a small city where everybody knows everybody. Plus I noticed, if not all but A LOT of White teenage boys are often influenced by their friend’s opinion or care about people’s opinion, look etc. that’s why they lack courage. If you have racist friends or friends who make jokes about the fact your crush is Black, (even if those friends do it just for laugh) it can discourage some of them..
I was also upset that I have to wait college to meet some guys who could be more mature, whereas my white friends can, you know, have fun with HS bf, even if HS love story aren’t that serious sometimes, you know, it brings you something like experience.
Yeah.. the problem with American people is they have that strong race mentality, due to their history.. plus this is how America was built so…
LikeLike
After reading some of these last couple of comments…
Let’s cut the crap folks…
So few Black women/white men couples exists simply because MOST Black women prefer Black men.
All of this back and forth about body type, hair, location, etc. is a deflection from the real reason mentioned above.
LikeLike
Actually, you are the one full of crap. Your belief that I could only be attracted to black men in a multicultural environment is insane. As a woman of colour, I will be attracted to and date whomever I want. And I have.
LikeLike
Jewel
She did not once say anything you accused her of. Please take of the anger shades and read what she actually said.
“So few Black women/white men couples exists simply because MOST Black women prefer Black men.”
It says nothing about you or what you can only be attracted to. Unless you are now most black women.
LikeLike
I am surprised this post is going and going. I have dated a few black women and here is what I noticed. The ones I was attracted to the most were very dark. Looking back I note it was the dark eyes that drew my attention after that if I notice other factors that I am attracted to then I approach her to see where her mind is at. One woman I was interested in had a lot of her own hang ups and her brother even noticed in a conversation he was witness to that she made many assumptions and put words in my mouth that I never said. I walked away from that individual and her brother introduced me to a beautiful woman with no hang ups like his sister had. Culture I dont have an issue with but as an individual dealing with another individuals issues is on a case by case basis and cannot be grouped by race or culture. The skin colour and eye colour were a drawing card but the person inside is really what makes or breaks the relationship. The rest is just icing on the cake.
LikeLike
Oh god…amen
LikeLike
You need chill out.
If you’re weren’t so busy trying to falsely claim that something or someone is trying to keep you from IR, then you would’ve comprehended that my statements were MAINLY in defense of Black women against all of the stereotypical notions about us.
Let me clarify once more…
Black women/white men couples are rare NOT because Black women are more “thicker,” “louder,” or white men don’t find Black women “desirable” b.s.
It is simply because the stark MAJORITY of Black women prefer to date/marry Black guys.
Let me translate one last time…
Black women–for the MOST part, turn down dates from white men. It’s that SIMPLE. Nothing about “location”, “looks” etc.
LikeLike
I forgot to mention one thing I found. I have talked with women all over Usa and globally and the life experiences the woman has had up to that point and her personality are two big factors that will dictate if a woman of colour will consider a white male or rule him out of her choices. That being said I am sure the same for a white male background and personality will dictate ( perhaps i should say influence)his choices. We also judge other peoples choices based on our own decisions in the same given situation. Southern states there is still moe segregation between blacks and whites than say northern states. I am not not part of the USA but a mall comunity in Canada and not intimidated by black culture at all or hispanic or asian or native. I do see that the differences affect each persons outlook based on outside influence and the strength of the individules personal charactor. Some are self limiting some are more open some are adventurous, and it shows in the various postings. Most people want what they dont have. A woman with curly hair wants straight hair a woman with straight hair may want to have curls. I grew up in a mostly white and native surrounding so I find I am attracted to what I dont see often, my weaknesses are dark eyes like coal and dark skin. I like curvey women but a woman can be a bomb shell but if there is no brain with the body then I walk away saddened no matter what race she is. There is 2 types of smart wome out there some are book smart and some are life smart, it is not often you find one with a good ballance of both. If you find one that has a bit of both hang on to her with both arms!!! decisions
LikeLike
I’m would love have sex with lorrianne toussaint-a thick, sexy woman.
LikeLike
@phoebeprunenelle:
“After reading some of these last couple of comments…
Let’s cut the crap folks…
So few Black women/white men couples exists simply because MOST Black women prefer Black men.”
Like MOST women from other races prefer their own men. Nothing new here.
“All of this back and forth about body type, hair, location, etc. is a deflection from the real reason mentioned above.”
I disagree. I lived in Europe, America and Africa and BW/WM pairing frequency IS different depending on where you are located even though most people still date and marry their own.
@FrenchAfricanG:
I told you’d see more of these couples when you move to Lyon.
I attended high school in Paris in a very diverse environment so my experience was different but I can understand what you mean, it can be so frustrating!
Nonetheless, you shouldn’t feel sorry if any boy/man didn’t pursue you because of what his friends or family thought… You should be happy you have a natural filter for weak men.
And I agree, Americans are different about race but they have a different History from ours.
LikeLike
I was going to ask if you meant CUTIE PIE or cutey pie and if so why you didn’t edit the error out of the post. But I see you used “cutsie” above in a reply. What does it mean?
LikeLike
i think it is a negative stereotype as a light skin black,… that only on type a real black woman is dark,.. the idea become a whites man exotic fruit” syndrome,….
you have understand that white men know this that black women come air texture , types , skin color,.. features ,.. height ,.. everything we are not one just “idea ” ,….. and for black men who want get with me just because i am light skin that just shallow and again a stupid reason to date,…..
how about a man just like me for me …. not color ,nor ,.. false idea and image ,.. just getting to know ,.. instead of a fetish ,..
LikeLike
My older sister (Black Dark Skin, natural wooly hair is currently studying abroad in Italy she has told me that White men have been hitting on her. But my sister is pretty attractive to begin with but she never got that much attention in America when she studied in upstate NY where whites are the overwhelming majority. I’ll wait for her stories about Italy when she comes back home, she already said an Italian said nigg*r to her but after she almost unleashed hell on him he explained he was trying to talk “American” to her and said that people in Rap/Hip Hop say it all the time so he thought it was okay, ironically they went to a Rap concert later.
LikeLike
I like your honesty, it is refreshing and I do see your point of view, what I don’t like is that more and more black men do not like dark black women, unless she has long hair and big boobs. I don’t like when a black man says it’s because of her big mouth or strong personality, as if we are purposely driving our men away. The black man is a strong dominate man. The black woman is a strong dominate woman. Oh no, now us american born and raised afro sistahs gotta make way for the fragile island chick. Anybody but us. Now, I like all people, but am angry that more of our men do not want us. It is a travesty.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Pumpkin, as a white man – albeit, not necessarily the right person to be dispensing advice, but simply telling you from my perspective – let me say this:
1) White men who are looking to have sex with a black woman – like me – are attracted to the black woman who looks attractive to them, not this way or that way. I wouldn’t want to have sex with a large white woman because she isn’t attractive to me. I also wouldn’t want to have sex with a white woman who isn’t attractive to me for other reasons. It’s not about shades of black or size of boobs or butts. It’s about being attracted to that particular woman. And it’s the same coming back: People of all colors are not attracted to me for whatever reason, not because of color.
2) I can promise you that a white man who wants a black woman wants to please the living cum out of her, and that’s all that’s on his mind (okay, a little color as well). He wants you to moan, to scream, and to be completely taken, pleased, pleasured, to the highest place in the orgasmic heavens. He has no thought, even for one second, about racism, slavery, or anything else. He wants you to have the greatest time, and that will make him happy. Period.
3) If a guy is not a gentleman to you – no matter what color, what size, or whatever – than this guy is not worthy of spending one minute with you. I am not talking being nice. I mean being a gentleman to you. A real man, a man who respects you as woman, should show it.
If a white man, in the above category, shows an interest, and wants to connect with you, I believe that you two would most probably have a great time together. Let it happen, honey…..
LikeLike
“I don’t know, maybe if I really loved a guy I wouldn’t feel this way.”
.
1. Yup, it’s good to love the person that you’ll give yourself too.
2. It’s also imperative that this person loves you – in all the real ways that count!
Is he Daddy material? Accidents happen. Women become pregnant.
Will he stick around and raise your and his child with you, or will you become just another baby mama with all the regular baby mama issues?
The right man isn’t necessarily the right man because of how well he is to you in bed. Life consists of much, much more than communing horizontally.
How he communes with you vertically matters just as much, if not more.
Now is the time to wrestle with these thoughts, not later. Poor choices and decisions always comes with some regret. Regret maybe in your poor choice of the right man.. poor choice in timing, poor choice in not preventing that STD that might have been prevented had you been thinking/planning more clearly.
Think and pray.
I wish you well.
LikeLike
@pumpkin sheesh i was kind of jokingly bragging to my wife how i could have some type of relationship advice component or ‘column’ as part of my blog and then you ask a question like that
LikeLike
@Pumpkin
‘ I wish it were that simple’
Are you talking about what Jason has said? I would like to think that there is a lot of truth here. Surely it is possible to believe in this day and age that people can date interracially and that their ‘difference’ does not preoccupy them?
LikeLiked by 1 person
turns out me and my darker complected wife have a lot of things in common, cultural difference for sure but then again… i have been living in the black community since i got out of my 1st marriage in 08, that is a divide there for most white people they be scared mostly
LikeLike
Pumpkin, the guy got freaky with you because he wanted you – and you wanted him.
If, though, you got the feeling that ALL he wanted was sex and then he would run, and you were expecting a future with this guy, then he wasn’t for you!
It is confusing: Was it HIS family he wouldn’t take you to, or what would YOUR family say?
Why did that guy go gaga over you and couldn’t wait to get all over you and get you all over him – why, it must be because you are irresistible at least to him! I can tell you that attractive women of all colors have been doing that to us men since the beginning of time! Without the jungle, we men get very excited around attractive women!
Unless the next man to have sex with you will be your husband (now or to come), if a man is excited to be with you it is because this guy really is attracted to you, and thinks that if he gets the chance, he believes his skills will take you to a beautiful heaven.
And sweetheart, that heaven might well be a good place to spend some sweet time…….
LikeLike
Peanut – I think the man just wanted sex. He kept telling me all these erotic things we would do together. Scandalous things. Yes, it turned me on, but it also worried me because it made me think that was ALL he was interested in. Plus, what would my family think.
I cant tell you whether to sleep with this guy or not. What I would urge you to do is not to make it about the ‘differences’ in your colour. I have missed how the two of you got talking about what you could ‘do ‘ for each other – if this came out of left field and he just started talking about this randomly then if you don’t want this kind of casual hook up, then by all means run the other way fast. But If you are open to this kind of experience even as a one off, that is up to you too.
Some people prefer the fantasy of couplings/relationships to the reality.
LikeLike
I married a dark woman, and have no idea why ….im attracted to dark women. but i find black or very dark women just beautiful. maybe as a typical white bot – had working parents and was effectively “nannied by a firm but wonderful black nanny, that took no nonsense. . Like wise body shape, i am generally attracted to characters, not body shape or controller…but black women – dark….tend to get my attention… and lets not start talking about black women with cornrow hairstyles – now that i find so beautiful….
LikeLiked by 1 person
typical south african white boy…. is what i meant to write..
LikeLike
“typical white bot – had working parents and was effectively “nannied by a firm but wonderful black nanny, that took no nonsense.”
As you are a” typical south african white boy” then chances are greater that you did not know your “nanny”s full name and surname. And you would call her on her anglicized name. If she lived on your property, she might have had a small outhouse, to be on call all the time. Perhaps your family referred to her as the “girl”.
If she lived far away, say in the Transkei, then she had to send her money off to her family and see them perhaps once a year.
And if she had to travel to work everyday, she would have to get up very early and travel on unreliable transport everyday and get home late, without being able to take care of her children while she took care of you. And then as a ‘typical white south african boy’ when you are grown up, chances are great, that she might not even get a pension.
All on minimum wages, full time, so that both your parents could work.
LikeLiked by 3 people
@ taotesan
Ah, the untold story revealed!
LikeLike
i know everything about her, her real name , and those of her family, and i have been to her home. anyway the topic was about why white men like black women.
btw – the first thing i do when i meet peope not just women, is inquire about the meaning of their African names. or i tell them!!!. having lived in many places, i find that even discussions like your rather odd, as i focuse on business and i see every person as a consumer, and potential client. and racial discussions are well, …my lifes too short. and too many things stlll to do.
great topic.
Its all about good men standing up and being better men. for me even as a boy of 12, i would go to the workers cottages on the farm, to drink tea, and sit outside. under the tree. to this day i have nothing but respect knowing that we are all alike. i mix , and still do, even now living in arabia,i sit on the ground with the yemenis in the motor spares “markets ” eating chicken and rice with our hands, learning about other cultures. and i have also kept the company of “other” on the other end of the scale .. like i said – i am interested in business. and i respect EVERYONE. even if i dont agree….
next comment?
LikeLike
oh and another thing – was reading a great article about how much black makes you black in say usa or south africa.
my wife sees herself as black, having witnessed the trojan horse saga and other events… being one of the people. interesting that my childrens DNA is not 50% “european” and 50% “other” bit 47% European and 53% “other”
I do see my wife as the most beautiful women in the world….
and another thing.. i do know what an interrogation cell looks like inside – and no i dont need to discuss how where when… but that it did have to do with me having a “black” girlfriend long long before 1993. i thank my parents that me “religion” is treat EVERYONE with respect – and in my still lingers the ” esp. older people.”
LikeLike
@taotesan: That is very insightful that is horrible the way black women and black people in general were treated. And this Iharris poster makes me give his post the side eye and i am irritated just reading him. Keep posting love reading you.
LikeLiked by 1 person
@Iharris:
I’m with you harris, I don’t see colour! Why do these Black women always hook up with funny looking white men? Don’t they know a good-looking white man when they see one?
LikeLiked by 1 person
@Herneith: That was funny i see what you did there.
LikeLike
Hey the south african white guy does percentages too
LikeLike
be irritated, changes nothing.. im happy with my life. i responded to the original comment..said it like it is – not sure about the bashing that goes on in this forum. is contrary to what i would have imagined the open discussion – that some folks – and very well spoken i may say – love snarky side comments written between lines
btw im not familiar with the term side eye? sounds derogatory .
LikeLike
who is mary burrell, and why is she so sarky?
LikeLike
v8driver computer fixer (succesful) yep i do percentages. my point was colour is not an issue and i have mixed ancestry…but that has nothiung to do with my choices. i am my own,,, i choose, why the sarky comment,,, from an apparent succesful man, keep uop the good work keep thise recommendationsd ciming – i might nbeed yiou great IT skills one day.. but why the sarky coment…? you need a dose of equinox
LikeLike
yoiu cannot talk aboiut how black people are treaTED WITHOUT TALKINNG ABOUT SLAVERY… slavery is so alive and well in the world… its just disguised.. anf not aimed at color no longer… all connected back to money… not value or competency… good men (women too) will stand and do nothing … thatr will be worse than those who fight good.
LikeLike
@irfaanharris it has been noted before here that white american commenters like to reveal their ethnicity using percentages and it was amusing that you did the same thing. And it’s snarky. Ijs.
LikeLike
@irfaan dose of equinox?
LikeLike
@v8driver
chuckle!
LikeLiked by 1 person
SLIGHTLY OFF TOPIC…south african history lesson: are any of the non south african based readers of this blog familiar with the trojan horse episode in apartheid south africa?
LikeLike
and here it is.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Sinton_Secondary_School#Trojan_Horse_Incident
My wife was one of the children at the school. so it very close to home, to see the articles about unarmed youth being shot by so called “protectors”
LikeLike
the cbs news feed
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qxwdJoz1v0)
LikeLike
@ Herneith:
You are MAD.
I love your humour.
LikeLike
In the introduction to Charles Dicken’s “A Tale of Two Cities” by Richard Maxwell, he quotes Arthur Young in his “Travels in France”, on the eve of the French Revolution:
It is impossible to justify the excesses of the people on their taking up arms; they were certainly guilty of cruelties, it is idle to deny the facts… But is it really the people to whom we are to impute the whole? – Or to their oppressors who had kept them so long in a state of bondage? He who chooses to be served by slaves, and by their ill-treated slaves, must know that he holds both his property and life by a tenure far different from those who prefer the service of well-mannered freemen; and he who dines to the music of groaning sufferers must not, in the moment of insurrection, complain that his daughters are ravished and then destroyed and that his son’s throats are cut.
LikeLike
I hope this Harris chap is still around.
• siddiqi: Saudi Arabian hooch.
• ag: ah and the sound you would make if you had a hairball stuck in your throat.
• kleinbaas: Afrikaans for small master boss. Black adults and children were forced to address white boys while they were infantilized and called boys and girls. white girls were addressed as kleinmissus.
• sarkiness: South Africanism for being sarcastic.
• braaied: barbequed.
• dompas: a pass, a document that Black men had to carry at all times to justify their circumscribed whereabouts, with arrest a certainty upon loss thereof.
• Sis!: expression of disgust or disapproval.
@Ivan Harris : Were you non compos mentis, chasing Saudi Arabian siddiqi with equanol, sic equinox when you wrote that gobbledegook? As a sober person, I tried to make sense of your incoherent crapulent horsesh*t:
“blacks” with corn rows, exploited domestic worker super nannies”; 12 year kleinbaas imbibing tea with farm workers; finding it odd to discuss Black women’s abuse in the nuclear plant of racism; something about last man standing up; eating chicken legs and rice on the ground with your hands with Yemenis with motor spares; offsprings’ DNA split in percentages; phantom interrogation rooms; seeing people as walking dollar sign; parents’religion; respect for your elders; wanting to be left alone to do your bucket list; name dropping massacres, and SLAVERY and RESPECT, of all things. And not seeing colour. What dosage did you take to blotto your eyesight?
And don’t you think it is way over the top, not to mention highly irresponsible and disrespectful, if not immoral, to suggest to total strangers to take horse tranquilizers to cure sarkiness?
LikeLike
@Irfaan Harris
And just as an aside, typical south african white boy, listen, that comment about Blacks being “very well spoken i may say”. I know where you are coming from: with all that time, money and resources thrown in for your special education in the height of apartheid, being schooled that Black people are only hands,whilst your parents enforced illiteracy on the farm workers, I can just imagine how your brain would struggle to compute that. Lord only know what you would make of Neil de Grasse Tyson: encephalopathic implosion.
LikeLike
@Ivan Harris
If you don’t mind, could you be so respectful and tell us this phenomenon of not seeing colour? Is it a side effect of a heavy dose equinox or apartheid or both?
You know, no matter how hard I try, I see colour all the time. I just can’t help it.
Perhaps you could shed some monochromatic light on this? I have heard about and met many typical respectable and “respectful” white south africans who have the same condition. The same very nice white people seem not to care that I am purple or green or have pink polka dots or have stripes.
As a matter of interest, and not casting aspersions on the content of character and all that , typical white south african boy, what would you say is the breakdown of the 53% of your offsprings’ ‘other’ DNA:
• pink with polka dots
• green
• purple
• yellow
• striped
• “black”
• brown?
LikeLike
@ Irfaan Harris
Please come back,my baas, there is so much we can talk about .
Like: “having a“black” girlfriend long long before 1993.”
How old were you then? Twelve? Naughty, naughty, kleinbaas. You must have been sneaking off to the servants quarters then already, hey. Was that before or after you imbibed tea under the tree with the workers, kleinbaas? Don’t think we didn’t know how the master used to sneak in with the maid when the madam when was out. You were learning young, hey.
And your delusions of struggle credentials: inside the interrogation room: You are a liar, Harris There goes in vino veritas.
And the Trojan Horse Massacre : Typical white boy, I am getting so nostalgic for the good ole days. I can practically smell the teargas and the hair of the Alsatians and see the ‘friendly’ Casspirs and the ‘nice’ apartheid policemen in my school.
Wouldn’t the typical white south african’s special memories be : moaning that the Springboks could not play international sport, whilst tucking into braaied meat and drinking Castle lager under the sunny skies, and tsk tsking: “Don’ t be so negative, why spoil such a lovely day by talking politics” when the sixty eight year ‘girls’ were cleaning up for the missus and baas overtime and the seventy year old k*ff#r “boys” with dompas and bent spines were paid then ZAR 0. 50 c or less or an hour or less than a dollar a day. Don’t you just miss the good ole days?
I must say your puerile attempt at vicariously exonerating yourself through your wife’s experience during apartheid, and mentioning slavery, while you were complicit and collaborated with apartheid system and its laws, is bottom- feeding low. Ag sis, man!
LikeLiked by 1 person
i guess someone hit a nerve…
LikeLike
i say again .u are well spoken…
LikeLike
i say it again ..cornrow, are just beautiful.
https://www.google.com/search?q=cornrow&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiu6YXzkdrLAhXE8A4KHdoSCbwQsAQIOQ&biw=1920&bih=977
LikeLike
And Taotesan, i do enjoy your post and reading your take.. interesting, but enjoyable.
LikeLike
iharris, you are a patronizing sack of turd.
LikeLike
Mr. Empty, unlike you, I may be interesting and well-spoken, but, at least ,I am not the son of a slave-master, neither am I a collaborator and beneficiary of apartheid, unlike you.
LikeLiked by 1 person
@ Mary Burrell, Afrofem, Herneith and Sharinair
I believe I was understated in my description of the life of domestic workers in South Africa.
Abagond, I am sorry, I have thoroughly derailed this thread.
LikeLiked by 1 person
@Taotesan
I am the granddaughter of a domestic worker, so I have some idea of what lies behind your description.
LikeLike
@Afrofem
Yes, so we would both have an idea about the conditions of servitude as my mother was a child ‘slave’.
I am au fait with white South African speech- their ellipsis, euphemism, modes of exoneration to know I am not wrong in my charge against Harris.
LikeLike
@taotesan
I’m sure he didn’t expect you, someone who understands the culture, to be here, ready to refute his comments.
Please continue to share your perspective.
LikeLike
I concur with Herneith about this i.harris imbecile that he is a patronizing sack of bowel movement.
LikeLike
@taotesan: Great post keep them coming.
LikeLike
i dont need to be exonerated from anything at all. (what charge?) i dont have issues with you and how people suffered ,and continue to suffer… i made a couple of points – clearly which u dont like , one that slavery is alive and well. Including in south africa, where it remains. you make out that other people have no idea, including me and (you) have reverted to standing on your back foot fists raised, i came into this conversation with no issues or judgements . the only color is see is purple (haze) and about me being a liar. say what you may … wont change it. My comment was fact, based on that i spoke my mind mized with the people that i wanted to mix with, when i wanted to, and where i wanted to, and did not hide from reprisals of what may happen, (and did) thank god i was not thrown from a helicopter – as happened to others that “collaborated”
As grand daughter of a domestic worker you are a little removed from my age group and to know that persons who dared mix with “the gevaar” would be dealt with – in some cases with death – so please dont tell me that thats bullshit – as a wellspoken, well versed, smooth,, well travelled do some resesarch for those that stood up. To this day i stand up for all. not only in south africa. i expect nothing in return. i dont really care. how many people throw dirt my way. Clearly you love venting on many conversations (numerous)
its just not in my DNA to thnk of colour issues, I said it before, i know whom ia ma attracted to, dont know why, and that commerce is the way to uplift all people.
Go on call me a liar, I know the inside of an interrogation cell. and no i was not underage at the time.
anthing you say has no bearing on my reality and who i am and what i have done – will do for anyone – in anyplace. irrspective of who they are.
my only regret inb life, is i wish i could have given money to a friend of mine that needed it for an operation , but cancer killed her (my point is there are tyhings closer to home that matter – and not your constant punching.
unfortunmately i could not find any info on you – i was certainly interested in understanding more about what makes you tick.. nothing, nada,
LikeLike
what is the known history of this location? what goews on there today? im interested. building nesteled in a suburb.
Perhaps it was a science lab. purhaps not.
https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=z8O9xIkSVVEU.kg6ach9-5RyU&hl=en_US
LikeLike
Without ECONOMICS, there can be no FREEDOM or JUSTICE.
LikeLike
@ Ivan Harris
“the only color is see is purple (haze)” . Well, that is what you get mixing hooch with horse tranquilizers.
“just not in my DNA to thnk of colour issues”. It is just not in your DNA to think.
LikeLike
In america most white men don’t date black women. When I was in London I had no problems. But here in America they are afraid to go there.i see.
LikeLike
Good afternoon to the next day we
LikeLike