Disclaimer: I am not a child psychologist nor do I play one in the blogosphere. So I could be completely wrong:
Here is what I told my sons when they were 10 and 12 a year and a half ago. They are black growing up in America:
- The police are not your friends. Get on the wrong side of them and you are screwed. They do not care one bit about you. You are someone to lock away to keep the good white people safe. The police do not serve blacks, they serve well-to-do white people. They will stop you for no good reason.
- You have to be twice as good before whites will see you as an equal. You will be constantly doubted in their eyes: they will doubt your intelligence, your morals, your education, your wealth. Even an Ivy League degree means less if you are black.
- White people have been getting better, but they still have a ways to go.
I did not see anything wrong with it: it is all true. In fact news events since then have confirmed some of it: a black man became president (“whites are getting better”), Sotomayor’s Ivy League education was doubted and Henry Louis Gates, Jr was arrested just for yelling at the police.
My mother said I was making the world more racist, not less.
She belongs to the kumbaya philosophy of anti-racist child rearing. I see it expressed in comments on this blog every now and then from both blacks and whites. For example:
I was raised by parents who taught me to honor God and my fellow human beings by not discriminating against them on the basis of race/skin color. When my parents immigrated to the U.S. in the 60’s, I have no doubt that they experienced racism based on their race/skin color but they still modeled a non-racist way of relating to EVERYONE. My sisters and I saw them establishing friendships with open minded, non-racist people of EVERY RACE.
That is good so far as it goes. Parents should set an example by having good friends from different races. Children should be taught to respect everyone and give them the benefit of the doubt regardless of colour, creed, country or wealth. Etc.
The trouble is that it does not warn them about how white people are. For whites this leads to colour-blind racism; for blacks, internalized racism. Leaving the country just the way it is.
It lets white children think they are not racist and yet the racism that remains among whites gets passed on because it is rarely challenged or questioned.
For black children and other children of colour it is even worse: if they are not warned they will have to learn the hard way how whites are. Wishing that whites were not racist or hiding it from your children will not make it go away. And in the meantime they will believe whites more than they should and think there is something wrong with not being white. That is what I went through.
See also:
Abagond 
You know its funny; I asked my 15 year old daughter what were her thoughts about race as it pertains to interracial dating. She replied that a person can and should be able to love whomever they choose. I, and obviously so do my children, possess this “kumbaya philosophy”. But I’m reminded a little everyday, particularly by black men such as yourself, that in as much as we’d like to believe that everyone has it in them to be better people, many of them have got a long way to go. I have a son, and honestly Im not sure what I will tell him about race(he’s only 5), as it is much different for black men than it is for black women, though we experience racism as well.
Abagond, I’d like to know your thoughts, perhaps in a post, about black on black racism. It bothers me to no end and I write about it a little on my blog. Do you think its a learned behavior or some deep-rooted self-hate?
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“The trouble is that it does not warn them about how white people are. For whites this leads to colour-blind racism; for blacks, internalized racism. Leaving the country just the way it is.”
They are not warned about “how white people are”? and it leads to color blind racism…so a white child needs to be told “ok honey, so basically you need to know right now that you are a racist pig, because if i don’t tell you now then you’re going to still be racist and just not know about it.” Thats rediculous. I really dislike that you promote telling white children that all black people look at them as racist, and telling black children that all white people are racist.
I know you have your own beliefs on that and you are very stubborn and unswaying with those beliefs so I’m not going to try to convience you.
At no end this is what I will tell my children:
You should love everyone, and never ever judge someone because of the way they look, the color of their skin, the way the dress or any other thing appearance wise. You should always coose friends by personality, and on whether or not the person has a good heart. And yes there will be people who are stupid and want to be mean to you or prejudge you because you are not all white, because your daddy is black, but you need to forgive people like that because they don’t know gods standards on not being partial, and hopefully one day the will learn those standards and change their ways and they are just missing out on loving you, because you are a wonderful person, no matter the color of your skin. You can change the world by showing love to everyone and always being kind.
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good post abagond. i myself have had to learn the hard way. growing up with only the white side of the family, no one told me about racism or how to deal with it, so im having to learn it for myself. all the racist stuff i endured as a child and teen (im only 20), i tried to justify…its only recently i am finally realizing just how much a minority cant pretend racism doesnt exist like whites do. my own mom (she is white) tends to spout ignorant and borderline racist things. (whenever i tell her that she is grouping the whole entire race, including me, she says that she sees me as a white girl and that somehow makes it alright).
i would say, one thing children of all races should be taught. is no one is equal. when people say we are all equal…that hinders addressing problems to that specific race. people say it, just so they can sleep better at night.it gives minority children false hope…minorities are affected most by the lie of “everyone is equal” some dont realize how untrue it is, until its too late…and some are lucky enough to catch it in time.
its annoying…when people say they arent racist…but then deny racism exists or pretend its not as bad as it is…and condone it. that makes them just as bad if not worse, than the racist.
i think tolerance should taught. acceptance should be taught. but i think its wrong to say we are all equal, because the reality is so far from it.
the worst change in racism, was probably going from people being loud and proud about it, to being closeted…closet racists, are the worst…because you dont know where they stand…and you cant protect yourself from them.
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“The trouble is that it does not warn them about how white people are. For whites this leads to colour-blind racism; for blacks, internalized racism. Leaving the country just the way it is.
It lets white children think they are not racist and yet when whatever racism remains is not challenged and questioned it gets passed on.
For black children and other children of colour it is even worse: if they are not warned they will have to learn the hard way how whites are. Wishing that whites were not racist or hiding it from your children will not make it go away. And in the meantime they will believe whites more than they should and think there is something wrong with not being white”
Abagond, you often use the word many to describe white racist’s and it lets you off the hook when a person objects to you blaming the entire white race, as you always state “many but not all”
This post is as racist as any other I have read!
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Wayne makes a good point. You are syaing that the white race is racist while I have read some of the most offensive, racist comments on this very blog. If a white man wrote a blog with this many racist comments he would get nothing but critisicm. I see a huge double standard here.
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I fully agree with your post Abagond. Too bad, people dont teach this in school. You hit everything on the mark. All your posts speak the truth. Keep up the good work!
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I agree with your post, Aba
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Abagond, can you tell me where you got this pic from?
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Can you define what you mean when you say “White” – who does that include?
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Wayne:
The picture shows South African school children. It is an AP picture that I found on this BBC page:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/4304543.stm
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canalpublishing:
“White” in this post means white Americans.
At the beginning of the post I said my children were growing up in America so that readers would know I am talking about black and white Americans and how race plays out in that country.
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Hey Abagond
This is kinda long
I totaly agree with your post. Don’t get me wrong, its not something that I’m happy about, but the truth hurts sometimes. I can understand how people that don’t have a minority background could see this post as offensive, but that is the exact reason why having a dialog focusing on race with some of them seems to be nearly impossible. The blinders have been put up because they, for the most part, they are not on the recieving end of said racism. Even those whites that are in relationships with minorities will never fully know how damaging it can be to a person if they are not prepared begining in childhoo to deal with it in a realistic mannor.
Growing up(I’m 24) I thought my father was a racist because he would always warn me to stay out of trouble and behave myself especially when I was in a majority white environment. To me it seemed like he just didn’t like or trust white people. But he was always personable and friendly when I saw him interacing with them or anyone for that matter so I did the same. I had a lot of white friends and not so many black friends(they said I acted too white whatever that means, but I did have some) so it wouldn’t be out of the ordanary for me to be the token black chick in the group. It wasn’t until I was 16 that I finally understood what my father had been trying to bring to my attention.
I was at a festival with my friends, majority were white but some of my black friends were with us also, and a fight broke out between my white friends and another group of kids that happended to be all white. Me and my black friends moved away from the situation shortly after the fight broke out cause it nothin to do with us. After the fight was broken up by some nearby adults, it was implied by some other adults who were also near by that we( me and my black friends) started the fight by exchanging words with the girls from the other group. To this day I don’t know what caused that fight and I really don’t care. All I know is that at first neither my white friends nor anyone else step forward to defend us to thier parents and police when they knew that we had nothing to do with the situation. They saw no problem with laying the blame at our feet. It was an older white vender that cleared everything up and we, my black friends and I, didn’t get in trouble.
I think the point that my dad was trying to press was to be awere. There are still some white people that could care less about me as a black person. And thats their right, but I don’t think that I should have to suffer for it.
I still don’t think that all white people are bad even after that experiance. But it did teach me that just maybe, to white people in general, I may be expendable. I could be tossed under a bus in a heart beat if it would keep them out of a sticky situation. Then again people in general are like that.
Take from my experiance what you will but It taught me that I can’t trust white or black people as a whole because 1) if you show any sign of not being a follower or choose not do certain things you are not black enough, and 2) If you are black and you have white friends you have too always have to always make sure that if something goes down to be far removed from the situation. Yes race relations in the US has gotten better, the vender that stepped forward proved that. It was a sobering revelation to me that we have a very long way to go not as black and white but as human beings.
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What I mean is what constitutes White Americas?
Italians? Jewish? Turkish? German? Arabs? Canadians? Irish? All of these people live here, so are they all considered white?
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“White = anyone whom most white Americans would accept as “white”, as one of their own. They are the ones who draw these lines between races.
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Leah:
Most whites are still racist. If whites were not racist there would be no black people. What makes someone black is not their skin colour but the way white people act towards those whom they think of as looking “black”.
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Leah:
No one should call their child a racist pig. But if they do or say something that is racist, then it needs to be challenged, questioned and condemned. Just like you would if they showed bad manners or tried to do something wrong.
Also if you have good friends from other races, ones you spend time with outside of work, and they see that, that will mean more than all the words in the world. Children learn by example more than anything else.
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Joli:
Good comment. My younger son feels the same way about me like you did about your father. But in time he will understand why I am being so “racist” about whites, as Wayne puts it.
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Wayne:
My younger son thinks I am being “racist” too. My mother was “not racist”, but what that meant for me is that I had to find out the hard way the truth about white people. That is why I am dead-set against the kumbaya approach.
Most white people in my experience are racist. I have met only one white person who truly did not seem to have a racist bone in his body, as they say. It is that rare, I am sorry to say. At least in America.
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you are 100% right in talking to your boys about whites. PLEASE BELIEVE they will thank you when they grow up. how do i know, because i too told my daughter about white people when she was growing up and of course she said i was wrong, racist blah blah blah BUT HONEY BOOM!! now that she is grown and can see white people for herself SHE SAYS I DIDNT TELL HER ENOUGH ABOUT THEM DIRTY CRAKKKERS!!! LOL!! please believe that your sons will be ever so grateful about you keeping it real when it comes to white people.
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ThatThickNik:
I did do a post on black-on-black racism. I think it is learned:
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2008/08/08/all-blacks-are-racist/
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Hey Abagond it’s been a long time but man this was a good post. I think that to minimize racism is to let your children be prepared for what’s to come when they enter in the real world. The “color-blind” talk has not worked and will not work for future generations. The color blind talk is to over simplify the dangers of racism. Racism first of all is not simplified it’s extremely complex since the post-civil rights era. In the “Eyes is on the Prize” documentary after the civil rights act was passed, I noticed that many of the whites thought that racism is over because the act was passed. So therefore when a Black person claims something is racist, they began to dismiss the claim and the “pulling the race card” argument began and this was right after the civil rights act passed! Now it’s even more prevalant.
If you’re going to teach your child about the injustices of race, you will have to be honest. Racism today’s opinion is dropping the n-word and putting burning crosses on a Black person’s lawn basically KKK antics. Today it’s a feeling or attitude or sense of superiority. Have you teach your child the human traits does not coincide with someone’s race. There was this lady that was on the radio and she said that her child was enrolled in Honors Freshman Algebra. She said that her son is great at math but he was faced with a racial dilemma. She said that it was a white boy that was having trouble with his math assignment. Her son tried to help out and the boy told him that “you should be mowing my lawn”. So even though he is struggling with his math assignment he felt that the boy should be in his place because him as a white boy should be good at math while the Mexican kid should remain beneath him doing lawn work(which is the stereotyped placed upon Mexicans). You see in this scenario he did not call him racial slurs, but the boy had the sense of entitlement because of his race. That’s the type of racism that children today will face mostly if you are a minority. However, you have to teach your children that your race does not make superior or inferior to anyone. Also to be aware that television reinforced racial stereotypes that can become racist attitudes if you don’t become aware. Remember racism is not always conscious.
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Excellent. It’s so good to hear that some parents are preparing their kids. I was not prepared, and thought there was something wrong with ME. I didn’t understand the free floating hatred and suspicion that would come my way and it felt very bizarre to me and was extremely damaging. I can’t emphasize this enough.
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Same here. The name-calling I expected, understood and could pretty much deal with. It took me a long time to see the subtler forms for what they were. I thought something was wrong with me, not them.
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abagond:
Thought as much. Kids born after 94 don’t have the same racism as their parents here. They do group together in races with the exceptions of some blacks and whites that mingle from group to group.
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abagond
Regarding your comment about the police. Have you ever had to call the police over when you had an emergency?
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Yes, once. They were completely useless, they were unwilling to help me, but it had nothing to do with race as far as I can tell.
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On the one hand you should give white people – or anybody – the benefit of the doubt. They are not all equally racist and hopefully some are not racist at all.
On the other hand, you should not fool yourself either. It took me a long time to learn that just become someone does not call me names it does not mean they are not thinking it.
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I was taught the vagaries of racism from early childhood. In fact I experienced it blatantly as there was not many other black folk around. Many of the white children felt free to hurl racial epithets my way. I have a sneaking suspicion that many black and racialized people do-not teach their children this.
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If you are white, and live in the U.S.A, you better teach your kids about Black people or they will end up being victims. Black on white crime is a silent holocaust in the U.S.A. Black men rape 103 white women every day, while white men rape 3 black women a year. Black people are taught by their parents and pastors to hate white people. Their Sunday schools teach about how they are owed everything from the white man. If a black gets an F in algebra, then it’s racism, and the fault of white people. When black men commit acts of violence, it’s never their fault. When a black man murders, rapes or steals, he always says,” I didn’t do anything”. They really believe that they did not do anything, because they are taught that they have the right to retributions. I’m not saying that all black people are like this, but at least 90% are. The best thing to do is avoid Black people. Do not vacation, or go to places with large populations of them. If you go someplace like Six flags or a water park, and you see dozens of church busses, do an about face and make other plans, because you put you and your family in mortal peril.
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@James Smith:
‘I’m not saying that all black people are like this, but at least 90% are. The best thing to do is avoid Black people’.
Give it a rest ‘Johnny’ and stop writing under different pseudonyms, you are starting to sound like a broken record.
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I am not Johnny. I only tell the truth.What I say is pure fact.
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I am not Johnny. I only tell the truth.What I say is pure fact.
This is where you start pulling out ‘stats’ to’prove’ your ‘assertations’. Drumroll please.
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James Smyth Says:
I am not Johnny. I only tell the truth.What I say is pure fact
Truth, Ha. Maybe in bizarro world. Another racist troll. Do they ever grow up.
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“Mortal peril”? Wow, that was a real “wtf” moment, and it just crept up on me too lol. Ahh the victim, is that the new route now? Where are they getting these graphs, pie charts and spreadsheets from, White Power Weekly?
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James Smyth said:
If you go someplace like Six flags or a water park, and you see dozens of church busses, do an about face and make other plans, because you put you and your family in mortal peril.
and
I only tell the truth. What I say is pure fact.
It sounds like simple racist fear to me, but since you only deal in pure fact, I would like to see the links to the facts that your warning is grounded on. I did not know that black-on-white killings were common at Six Flags and water parks.
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@James Smyth
“I am not Johnny. I only tell the truth.What I say is pure fact.”
Who’s truth? Yours? As abagond mentioned, you should provide links to back up your “facts” instead of making groundless statements.
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Why encourage this person whoever he is? I must say though I found the ‘SixFlag’ example to be hilarious? What is Six Flag? Perhaps black people should avoid this place in case they come across people like this James Smyth. He can kill them with statistics! Perhaps he will spare the 10% in the group who are exceptions after interviewing everyone to make this determination. These arguments have been interjected into various other posts, topics, previously, nothing different being put forth, same old codswallop!
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Six Flags is a chain of American amusement parks that started in Texas:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_flags
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Oh! my brother went to six flags a long time ago. He liked it and recommended it to me.
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I went to one a few years ago. I did not observe any white families in mortal peril.
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Maybe ‘James ‘Smythe interviewed all the black people seeking admittance. The ‘10%’ deemed ok were probably granted admission hence saving the white families from ‘mortal peril’. this guy should be writing dime novels if such still exist.
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I think people should not fool themselves. If it’s proved that police won’t be so eager to help black people (or any other non-privileged person), you should warn your kids about it. If you know black people face different kind of prejudice and racism all day (from those blatantly obvious to more subtle ones), of course you should warn your kids about it. If you know how society works (and there are some bad things), you should explain that to your kids.
It doesn’t matter if you and your kids are black or white. Even white parents should teach their children to notice racism- yes, even if it has nothing to do with them.
On the other hand, what you know about people and society isn’t always true for all individual human beings. That’s why you also have to teach your kids to give individual people benefit of the doubt. It’s not the same as being naive or colour blind. It’s the simple fact individuals are individuals, and any of them can be far different from any stereotype you might have about them- just like they can fit every single stereotype you have (in which case you, as a parent, must teach your kid how to tell the difference. Your kid will learn to do it in time, but if you don’t help, he or she will have to learn the hard way ).
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I will pose some factual evidence to illustrate how worthless, vile, destructive and decadent the negroid culture is to society. 60% of all violent crimes in the USA are committed by niggers, although the constitute only 13% of the population. 41% f all niggers carry VD(Herpes, HIV, , etc) but only 7% are aware of it. The average sub-Saharan African IQ is 70. In the USA it’s a bit higher at 85. This differential is due to rote learning and the possible admixture of white blood. 46% of all inner city blacks between 16yrs and 62yrs are unemployed. 21% of all nigglets are born to teenagers in the USA. 69% of nigglets are born to unwed mothers. Niggers lack the gene “FYA”. This sets them apart from all other races and is just one reason why scientists consider niggers non-human. In the USA, over 32% of nigger men in their 20’s are in prison or on parole. Nigger brains are the smallest when compared to Whites, Asians and Latinos.
Throughout 6,000 years of recorded history, the pure blooded African Negro has invented nothing. Not a written language, weaved cloth, a calender, a plow, a road, a bridge, a railway, a ship, a system of measurement, or even a wheel. He is nt known t have grown a single crop or domesticated an animal for his own use. For shelter he never progressed beyong the commn mud hut, the construction of which a Beaver is capable. In Sub-Saharan Africa, where the niggers are untouched by others, they have not made one single discvery r advancement in medical science in over 6000 years. They still practice VooDoo and depend on “witch doctors” to cure their ills.
How do yu like that?? I’m sure yu can blatantly see how the Ngro beast contributes to sciety’s well-being and equilibrium: more crime, disease, violence, urban blight, welfare and fear.
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@Shardelle
Are you sure you are not part nigger yourself? After all, you have displayed before us a complete disregard for the English language, and the spelling and grammatical rules that accompany it. You show ignorance of BASIC African history, for instance there more than 250 languages spoken(and written)in the nation of Nigeria ALONE, and thousands are spoken across the continent! There were many great African civilizations, The Kingdoms of Ghana, Mali, and Songhai just to name a few. Also, you pepper you essay with unfounded lies and distortions in an effort to prove your petty, asinine “points”.
Given your bombastic display of ignorance and lack of intellect you may want to look into some DNA testing to see if you have a little “nigger” blood coursing through your veils.
It would explain a lot.
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Y, that was amazing.
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I have the feeling that many Asian Americans do not get this talk about racism from their parents. Unless they grow up in a racially charged community (which is possible, for example, in a mixed black / working class white area), they might not get the message until WAY later, in university or even not until they start working outside their communities. It might also be delayed because they might try to accommodate the racist society by trying to be accepted as an honorary white person.
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@ Jefe:
I will only speak for myself as an Asian Canadian, but I’m very thankful for my parents especially my mom for discussing racism with me. I grew up in a predominantly white environment. And I remember from Day One, my mom said I would be treated differently because I wasn’t white. She said there will be some racist whites who will go out of their way to make you feel unwanted and will look down on you. She wasn’t like the other wishy-washy Asian parents we knew who tried to go along by sucking on the teats of the white powers that be. Sadly, I know a lot of Asian parents like this.
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At least some of you were taught racism at an early age. I didn’t know what it truly was until less than a few years ago, and when I found out, it was like getting shot through the heart with an arrow in slow motion.
Before then, I was what you might call a “good negro”. I was the black male kid that almost never got into trouble. However, I was also the kid that was looked at funny by others for being quiet and introverted. I was meek and mild to everyone including white teachers and students, including the ones who were mean to me. I just want to make friends with everyone.
I was taught that racism was to hate someone because of their skin. I was NEVER taught that racism was also using that hate with power. I was also never told that racism can be internalized. If I had known, I would never drew some of the things I’ve drawn (stereotypical images of POC and creating stories with white people as the main characters). Hell, I might’ve acted differently in general.
I still kick myself for not knowing any better when I was younger. I should’ve had that “awakening” when I was young.
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I co sign with Brotha Wolf, I didn’t fully understand myself. I just knew what I was on the receiving end was making me depressed and didn’t understand why some whites were just a*****holes. Why when i came to work with a freshly braided hairdo an older white woman responded”Gee Mary all you need now is a bone in your nose”. Why when I went to therapy the white therapist turned it around and said I was the one that was a racist. How I gave her the middle finger and told her to f*******k herself as I grabbed my purse and sashayed my cute chocolate self out of her office and never looked back. I learned from people like Truth Be Told Diary of a Negress, blog and Brotha Wolf., and you Abagond what white supremacy was all about. There has got to be power along with the prejudice. We as blacks have no power. So that is what makes up the system of white supremacy. Thanks to all you bloggers for teaching us. And I also thank The KUshite Prince for his knowledge as well.
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@leigh 204 I always love your comments they are very refreshing and honest, and poigant(sp?)
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Thanks for the testamony, Brothawolf, and Leigh and Jefe…
I can only say that, there are elements of what Abagond conveyed to his kids that I tried to convey also to my son.In the sence that he could be singled out as differant if he was around white people, and, as incidents with the police, or guards indicated this could be a factor, the discusions would expand into things like the policeman isnt your freind and may single you out. Of course, his mom represents the reality of experiances of discrimination for being black, that he could refer to.
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So, I guess a lot of kids DO NOT get the talk from their parents, regardless of their background.
So are schools responsible for doing what parents do not do? The Church? Unfortunately, it is the white elephant in the room and NO ONE talks about it.
I have a feeling that 50-60 years ago, most Americans who lived in racially mixed areas did get some kind of talk from their parents (except for new immigrants, perhaps). Even white people were taught about “N–gg–s”. I suppose the paradigm has changed but no one knows how to talk about it anymore.
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We had the talk growing up in the 90s. My dad did most of the talking regarding race. He would tell us to always sit in the front of the class if there weren’t assigned sitting. When taking the school bus always sit to the front of the bus. Study hard and strive to be the smartest one in the classroom. He would bring up stories of his past to drive his point across. Racism is alive and well. It’s a blogs like this one that do a service to combat such evil.
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In my personal experience, I grew up in an area that was both black and white, but rather segregated in the racially charged 60s and 70s. As monoracial parents of multiracial children, I think my parents were completely clueless about how to teach their kids about racism, and I got a lot of less than helpful advice and misinformation from them. In fact, it was more a process of experiencing everything as a child and teenager and making sense of it.
In high school, I devoured all the books in the school library and the public library, and did my senior history project about immigration and ethnic and racial identity and politics. It was then that I learned that both blacks and whites as well as Native Americans are actually all very racially mixed already, and US society forces people into racial labels and that the repeal of anti-miscegenation laws did not mean that it had not been going on all along. And for white ethnics, it was more of them accommodating themselves to the Anglo-American cultural mainstream. In university I continued to read about US history and took an Asian-American studies course in the early 80s.
The only problem I have with Abagond’s take on racism is his insistence that all of US society will assign one single label to every individual which will be fixed for his life — it is a bit shortsighted. Every time I see him do that I have to reread Maria P.P. Root’s “Bill of Rights for People of Mixed Heritage” and to read the following (http://www.drmariaroot.com/doc/50Experiences.pdf), if just for psychological reassurance. I hope Abagond, in addition to giving his sons the “race talk” to help them, that he reads the following to help himself relate to other people, esp. in the USA. His race talk with his kids would be largely useless to me if he were my father if he insists that multiracial identity needs to be suppressed, even for persons who are part black. But the race talk with his kids would be fuller and richer if he considers some of the contents of this document (ie, the race talk not only relates to the code of conduct on how to deal with the police, with white persons in power and other institutional racism, but how to deal with individuals in general).
Now there is an Oath of Responsibility for Multiracial people. Multiracial people also have a responsibility too. I hope I can fulfill my responsibilities.
Click to access OathOfSocialResponsibility.pdf
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@ Jefe & Bulanik
Both your comments are interesting. I personally believe Abagond’s analysis suffers from a lack of a spiritual perspective. Which is precisely what has eluded most white people from their inception.
While some are slowly beginning to regain this. The vast majority, along with a lot of sadly indoctrinated Black people, believe they cater for this in their adopted religions. – But they don’t! Which is why they would still perceive the world in terms of “us and them”, “Black and white” , Muslim and Christian etc…This is classic religious separation duality dogma and what I mean by a non-spiritual perspective.
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@ Jefe
Thanks for the Dr Maria Root PDFs.
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@Bulanik
Yep. Exactly.
The “race talk” should not only include about how WHITES are (even though that is an essential part of the “race talk”), but how they, as individuals (and collectively in the groups they participate with), should relate to other people. Politically, I think I sympathize with much of his point of view, but he repeatedly exhibited systematic denial of multi-racial people. This should not be part of “What to tell your children about racism”.
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@ Jefe and Bulanik
If either of you want to do a 500-word guest post along the lines of “What Abagond does not understand about multiracial people” or “What parents should tell their multiracial children” that would be beautiful.
Here is my post on “biracial” just for reference:
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2008/08/07/biracial/
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M-m-m-h. Let me think about that. 😛
I have read the post on “biracial” dozens of times already in the past year or two and I admit that you have touched on the topic and you acknowledge that the concept exists. But for each of these, there are hundreds of posts where you seem to deny their existence. And, I suspect that you are completely blind to this behavior. It seems natural to you as, “This is the way we do it in America”. Maybe it is the antithesis to being colour-blind.
Maybe you could read all of those declarations by Dr. Root to get an idea of the matter. Even I have to read it from time to time. http://www.drmariaroot.com/doc/BillOfRights.pdf (esp. after reading through Abagond’s blog posts, he-he).
But the guest topic would not be what you suggest, but probably would be either one of the following:
“What monoracial parents should tell their children about interacting with people in a multiracial society”
(The emphasis is on the monoracial parents, and by monoracial, I don’t mean necessary unmixed but those who identify as such. And the kids could be either monoracial or multiracial). Your “What to Tell your Children about Racism” focuses on the police and the white power structure and not about how to interact in general.
or
“Ethnically Ambiguous”
This is a term that has sprung since the late 1990s to describe people who cannot easily be labelled into ethnic and racial categories.
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@ Jefe
Either of those (or both) would be good too.
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@Bulanik
Ha-ha, I think you’re right. 😛
He gets the basic concept, but does not notice the glaring blind spot.
I looked at hundreds of blog postings and thousands of comments here. People brought the issue up, pointing out the blind areas, but the blind spot is still there.
Yeah, I think you see where the blind spot is. The “people” part in the last clause does not refer purely to white people. Dr. Root refers to it as the tendency of people to suppress the expression of multiraciality.
That was the race relations model that we had in the USA from the early 19th century to the late 20th century /early 21st century. It is in the process of change; after all, the census form has changed from “tick one box” to “tick all that apply” since 2000. It might be time to consider new possible paradigms 45 years after outlawing anti-miscegenation.
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Im mono racial and I already raised my bi racial son…and you might as well throw in bi national as a factor that is as important to deal with as bi racial
Im never someone to brag about “how good a father I am”, but , my son turned out incredible , more because of him than anything I could teach him. Its how he learns to deal with these things as he goes and how I am there to discuss it with him and help reasure him of what he is feeling and help guide him through the mindfeild and history of how atutudes were formed and how they affect people.
The way it works is , whether a parent talks about these things, initialy or not, they all come up in life if its not a sheltered existance…
We have had to deal with it all,prejudice because he is brown, prejudice because he is not black enough, prejudice because he is part one nationality,over scrutinisation by the police because he is brown, isolation and marginalisation trying to get work because of being the outsider,etc
These arnt obsticles that cant be dealt with, it just makes the vision in our family more expanded about what we have to deal with
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“…abagond
@ Jefe and Bulanik
If either of you want to do a 500-word guest post along the lines of “What Abagond does not understand about multiracial people” or “What parents should tell their multiracial children” that would be beautiful….”
I think this is a reasonable suggestion. I for one would be interested in any alternative or different perspective either of you might bring. Its one thing to comment critically on a subject but it puts this into a different and broader perspective when you are able to suggest alternatives. Otherwise why comment critically about it in the first place?
From reading comments both of you have made (especially Bulanik in the past) I would be surprised if you weren’t able to offer this.
Obviously you both have your reasons for not wanting to do this. I often find though that committing yourself to expressing contrary views in blog posts in this way helps with shaping and defining those ideas. As well as sharing them with audiences who might never ordinarily encounter those views. Whether or not you change a person’s view point is not really the issue. Its allowing them an alternative view point to choose to consider that wasn’t there before.
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@ mary burrell:
Aw, thanks. I just call it as I see it. That’s all. 🙂
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@ BR
That is GREAT.
Did you ever have such “race talks” with your son?
I think my parents thought I just turned out terrific as well. But I also think there were a lot of things they did not know (or perhaps either did not notice or did not understand).
But, as a regular commenter on this blog, I am sure you have tried your best to do your homework and work it out and learn with their child. Not many parents do that, esp. monoracial ones.
@Kwamla,
I did not say I would not. I just said that I was not sure how I would do it. I also need to find the time. And also, as Bulanik mentioned, I am not sure what good it would do anyhow. But maybe I will do it.
I think Bulanik points out that he has inserted a lot of discussion in the past (and I have seen a few from others too). Even I have added a few myself. However, you still will see many posts that seem to deny or suppress the expression of multiraciality or multiethnicity in society, that it is just not groups, but also individuals as well. I see more posts about why multiracial individuals need to “get with the plan” and align themselves with a suitable group or act accordingly with definitions imposed by US society. If only.
My comments are largely in support of the writer. There are just a few here and there which sit me a little on edge. So, I don’t find that it is a “contrary” position per se, Just another angle for the topic.
For example, I made a comment about Korean adoptees in another blog post. Abagond suggested that there are two choices in raising them – either teach them to align with the ethnicity of their adoptive families, or teach me more about Korea. I suggested a third: teach them more about being Asian American and about living as a person who looks Asian to others and about surviving in US society. But even as the kids learn THAT, they can still form ethnic alliances with the ethnicity of their adoptive parents. I don’t think looking Asian prevents them from doing that. Abagond presented the idea as an either / or prospect. In fact, a combination of all 3 may be the best solution and I don’t see why it should be viewed as unworkable, eg.
– learn to identify with and participate in the culture of the adoptive family, eg, Swedish-American
– learn how to navigate US society and culture as someone who will look Asian-American to most people
– learn about the history, culture, language and society of the country of Birth, ie, Korea
But I suspect that monoracial parents, even those who are racially intermarried (eg, my Godmother’s Filipino-American daughter raised a Korean born female adoptee with her Polish-American husband, and later divorced him) really know how to have each of these talks with their kids. Most parents teach them to be colour-blind. But for white parents, that is the same as teaching them to be white. As she grew up, she should have learned about being Polish-American, Filipino-American, Asian-American and about Korea also. But, when she hit her late teens, she ran away from home.
Abagond does not teach them to be colour blind (which, I happen to agree with), but he thinks people should call them as they see them. This can be painful, My cousin’s Chinese-Irish American daughter had a son with her African-American Louisiana creole ex-boyfriend. The boy is approximately 35% black, 40% white, 25% Chinese and his ethnic background might not be very obvious to many people, esp. since he is being raised by his mother (his father went to prison). Her brother married a Pakistani American woman and had a child (the boy’s cousin). I wonder what Abagond would tell his kids about how to interact with him and his family.
Wait, I do have an idea. He wrote a post about Tiger Woods. Maybe he would tell his kids to treat the boy the same way? That would hurt.
If people find it critical, then maybe I should take it offline.
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@ Jefe & Bulanik
You’ve both provided more than enough reason and explanation for your respective positions. This in itself is refreshing and of interest to learn. I’d also like to commend you both for taking the time to honestly state them.
As Bulanik has correctly interpreted. No…It does not surprise me that you both should feel this way. I too have experienced this feeling of “indifference” towards commenting. But even as Jefe has also acknowledged Abagond does write some very informative and insightful posts – sometimes! On which, I would agree, do merit those supportive comments from time to time.
But its not the informative and insightful posts from which this indifference towards commenting arises. its Abagond’s responses to those posts which are perceived as less than insightful or informative (this post which I am commenting in as a case in point) that causes this. So I can respect both your positions of being hesitant in taking up his suggestion of doing a guest blog post. Whether you did do or didn’t. Either way I believe your respective positions have been vindicated by the very responses you’ve both provided here already!
On this point at least I’d like to thank you both for sharing those responses. In time I hope Abagond will grow to do the same…
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Jefe, yes, we do have a running conversation about “race”, and his various racial mixtures, as he is trying to find his identity.
For me, having a child is learning as you go about what they are getting into …when they crawl, you learn what could hurt them , so you discover how to keep them away from electric sockets, when they walk, you discover what could bang them up if they bump into it..so as he experiances things in the world, I try to be there to discuss it with him.
He has been participating in our cultural expresions since diapers, he has been very enlightened about Afro Brazilian culture and Afro American culture…which I have had great exposure and the deepest of respect.
From my personal education and understanding of discrimination and racism , as he experiances these things out here, I am there to discuss it with him…he is the one who learns about his experiances in life, I just want to be there for him.
When we travel to the States and asks me ” why are black men staring at you and mom”, I have to bring to the table what I know about the dynamic of the black civil rights movement and why certain perspectives were taken by some people who happen to be black…I do not try to incriminate black men, but, give him the understanding he might not be accepted by all black people because of political activist atitudes…and these points of veiw have been very well documented on this blog..so , its atitudes he should understand are out there
I am not even an expert on all his racial background, I am not an expert on Brazilian Indian culture, except Ive seen a lot more reports and information than most any average American. But, this is a case about learning with him as he goes…its his life and his experiances and I can never forget, I am learning from him as he goes into territory as a bi racial bi national individual, I dont know about , and , the bi national has as many mindfeilds and awkward turns as bi racial.There is as much hurt and confusion there as just being bi racial.
About Abagond and this blog, I dont know if it is meant that he is in a running diolougue with all of us…he puts up his posts and just keeping up with the spam and sock puppets must be a big job..I think part of his purpose is to see us discussing these issues, not nescasarily discussing it with us.
I definitly feel this is not a bi racial freindly blog…ive seen comments about bi racial people, what they are suposed to be, what they arnt suposed to be, how they are suposed to describe themselves , what they can wear and not wear, that just make me wince…I come in here talking about my family,not to be accepted ,because there are a lot of comments that truly are scrutinising and critical, but, to proclaim we exist, this is our story, its for real not some opinions made , its our real life, and its good to see other bi racial people or people raising bi racial kids, to hear their story also
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I have three children myself and I would love to hear enlightened minds on the subject. Eagerly anticipating!
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@BR
Now I know I wasn’t just imagining things. :-\
But, it is great that you are learning with your child instead of lecturing him.
@Bulanik
Yeah, it was put into moderation for a while. 😛
Sorry about the he/she thing.
And yeah, I was wondering how many people out there thought I had a character flaw too for not exactly identifying with what people assigned me (which varies from place to place and day to day, and is often something that I have no personal background in). Maybe a blog post about how to correct our character flaws would set things right.
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I hear ya, Happened to me too.
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I had a friend at college who was half thai and half white.
He was stuck between 2 worlds. He absolutely hated it when people mistook him being Chinese to Thai since he had a huge chinese ancestry on the Thai Side of the family. He also wanted to benefit from the privledge the white side of his family brought. He was stuck in the middle of nowhere with a huge identity crisis, not in terms of how he defined himself since he didn’t have one single definition of himself but because he couldn’t escape from the world defining him. In the west, where he went to university, he was considered Thai or Chinese, not white and so had that privledge stripped from him, in Thailand, since he had both chinese and white blood, he got privledge. It’s weird.
The way I see it, multiracial or bi-racial kids are born in the middle of a battlefield where on one side they can gain some privledges and on another they can have that stripped away. They can cause as much hurt as they can receive. It is my belief that they know this as well. For example, once I was walking with this said friend through the student union and he mentioned that together, we have extremely low value, that for others to see us 2 as valuable we needed to walk with a 3rd person who is white. I felt offended, not only because I have been judged as having next to no value due to the color of my skin but because he also judged himself.
As a fully black person, I can not gain white privledge, but as biracial I can. But not only can they gain it and see what it is like, they can also see it’s ugly side when they get rejected so to me I find it a huge betrayal when after seeing what it means to be hurt by it, they reject there darker side. They reject it by passing that hurt onto darker people. It is like, “How can you do that? Knowing full well how it feels like..”
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“Have you ever seen this?”
No I have never personally seen it since most bi-racial black+white people I know I consider black and they consider themselves black. I think the problem comes in when they think they are white and try and disregard their black side. How do they disregard their black side? By being racist towards black people, by rejecting the experience of black people etc. However, I have heard others say that b+w biracial people can get the worst of both worlds.
“Don’t “the darker people” and not-so-dark people pass on their hurt to the bi-racial ones too for no damn good reason?”
Yes sometimes depending on who they associate with. Some black/white people can be nasty just for the sake of it. They could take out their hatred of white/black people on biracial people who might seem like an easier target.
I agree and maybe the best way to counter all this is to spread the conversation. Make the issue more well-known.
It’s tough though, how to fight white supremacy and still not alienate biracial people? Tough one especially when some might not want to give up the privilege of whiteness if they do receive some.
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Yep, Yep.
But, someone may do it for them anyhow. Still, they still must do it for themselves.
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Any future child(ren) of mine will receive their education on racism. I will not keep them in the dark.
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