Why do whites hate, demonize, fear and look down on blacks?

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Why do whites hate, demonize, fear and look down on blacks?

Mon 2 Jan 2012 by abagond

Why do many White Americans hate, demonize, fear and look down on blacks? I am no scientist or scholar, but here is I how I currently think about it. This post is very much a work in progress.

There are plenty of things that keep white racist thinking in place:

Racist messages in jokes, history books, the news and on television, etc,
Material self-interest,
Fear of becoming an outcast among whites

and so on. But this is not the heart of the matter.

Not even material self-interest. After all, plenty of poor whites are racist. About all they have to show for it is this: “At least I’m not black.” And that gives it away: it is about white self-image.

My current understanding of the white self-image:

Narcissism – having no true sense of self-worth they put up a false front to persuade the world, and most of all themselves, that they do have worth. They mainly do this through money, but also by putting down others to make themselves look better. Deep down they know the whole thing is a lie, which makes them all the more desperate to uphold the front.
Dichotomous thinking – either/or thinking. Their films often have characters who are either all good or all evil. When you ask them about it they say that of course they know the world is not that simple, that it is just a storytelling device. Yet much of their thinking is very either/or, black-or-white. The One Drop Rule is a good example. So is their idea that they are Basically Good, getting upset when you point out anything that does not fit that overblown self-image. Like that maybe they are racist. Worst of all, it means they cannot accept people who are too different: if you are not the same as us then there must be something wrong with you. Either/or.
Moral blindness - this is huge. Every single black person in the eyes of white people is the sign of a terrible crime from their ugly past, a reminder that their life is a fraud, that they are pretty much nothing more than armed robbers. But #1 and #2 make it hard for them to simply own up to their past and make it right. Instead they deny, shift blame, lie, twist facts and make black people into these creatures that they look down on, laugh at and yet, oddly, fear. It is a failed attempt to be at peace with themselves. This is why whites need to give reparations more than blacks need to receive it.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with black people other than the bad patch of history they are going through, its side effects and the ordinary human failings. It is white people who have a deep crack in their souls.

I know that sounds extreme - partly because we have “white is right” pounded into our heads night and day – but their history shows that there is something seriously wrong with them.

See also:

Posted in stuff | 434 Comments

434 Responses

on Fri 6 Jan 2012 at 17:24:29 Menelik Charles

What, no mention of envy of Blacks? racial envy is the source of all white people’s issues with Blacks from castration to rape, and from segregation to discrimination.
on Fri 6 Jan 2012 at 17:24:53 Menelik Charles

I’m just saying
on Fri 6 Jan 2012 at 17:35:20 sam

I think on points 2 and 3 you are into it. Sometimes I wonder what in the state system, in the federal government system keeps up the racial segregation alive, why they still inquire your ethnicity in papers and such. Officially there is no such thing, hey, even the prez is black, but still: there is always the ethnicity epithet on everything. Same in the news media, entertainment, in everything. Why is this so important in USA in 2011???
on Fri 6 Jan 2012 at 17:36:11 Fergie

Yep, that DEFINITELY should be up there too.
on Fri 6 Jan 2012 at 17:38:58 Fergie

ENVY, that is.
on Fri 6 Jan 2012 at 17:48:05 sepultura13

I’m reminded of this every day at work…the way I’m treated, compared with my co-workers, is sub-human at best. I see the backs of people’s heads as they walk by, as they do their utmost to not make eye contact with me because I might *GASP* say ‘hello’ to them or something! Being polite and cordial terrifies them, it seems…it’s truly INSANE.
on Fri 6 Jan 2012 at 18:03:52 Strongblack

Simply put: people of European descent, especially those with formal education, are aware of their genetic inferiority, and have to resort to extreme measures to assert their dominance over people of color. Many act this out on a subconscious level and are, many times, unaware of this defect in their thinking.
on Fri 6 Jan 2012 at 18:21:09 cj-canadian
on Fri 6 Jan 2012 at 18:27:59 Teddy

Sepultra, we are not talking about a misunderstood reaction to tattoos, piercings, or your perceived religious or political persuasion?
Just asking to make sure,…
on Fri 6 Jan 2012 at 18:37:43 Mel

This post does really need work.

Anyway. Why do whites hate, disrespect and discriminate against blacks? It’s tied to the white superiority complex. The white man’s burden, if you must. Whites–going back to racialized science and history of the 18th and 19th century–taught that whites are the superior race and non-whites are savages. White people grew up learning about the advancements and histories of whites, while being taught that they’re superior since they invented all of what is called “civilization.”

They believed it was their burden to civilize savages. Christianity didn’t help. It was used to justify slavery and anti-miscegenation, and enforce white superiority.

When you grow up having power over others, it’s easy to disrespect those people and look down on them. After hundreds of years of disrespect, it’s hard to change.
on Fri 6 Jan 2012 at 19:07:33 GrannyStandingforTruth

Excellent post!
on Fri 6 Jan 2012 at 19:15:57 Teddy

I guess the question is asked in a way making it hard to answer, as I think fear is the answer, fear for black gangs, black rapists, fear for the other, fear for guilt, fear for the unknown, fear for ancestral guilt, fear for false accusations, fear for just accusations, going back to fear for slave rebellions.
on Fri 6 Jan 2012 at 19:17:12 darqbeauty

These people hate us like WE kidnapped them from Europe, ripped them away from their cultures, split apart their families, enslaved them, murdered them, raped the women, mutilated the men and enacted Jim Crow laws against them. It’s downright creepy. There’s also a pathological obsession with Black people that is hard to explain. I belong to a website for people of color to express dissent over the European power structure and when Europeans or European Americans drop by the first thing they rant is “Ni66er” this and that. It’s like the default racism is Black oriented. They never think about the others that they’ve crapped on the world over. It’s automatically Black people. I find this fixation extremely frightening. I think it is at a molecular level. Black people are the biggest biological threat to Europeans. They are a global minority that could be easily wiped out at the drop of a sperm or ovum…and no other sperm or ovum presents its physical phenotype as strongly as the Black human. I suspect that this is also why they feel the need to segregate themselves from others, no matter where on the globe they choose to migrate to and forcibly displace the original inhabitants. I truly believe that Europeans will never join the global community because it would ultimately mean their demise. Racism is in their genes. It acts as fail safe for racial preservation. I don’t know. I’m just thinking aloud right now.
on Fri 6 Jan 2012 at 19:19:25 MinneB

Why do many white Americans, hate, demonize, fear and look down on blackness?

Because someone has to groom the next generation of little oppressors.
on Fri 6 Jan 2012 at 19:19:44 Danila

Man I was just reading this great 1965 Ebony issue – “The White Problem in America”. I think you can find it here on Google books: http://bit.ly/xk6VYk

The racial discord in America is propelled by the “fears and frailties” of white Americans because “the White American is a problem to himself and that because he is a problem to himself he has made others problems to themselves. When we say that the white American is a problem to himself we mean that racism is a reflection of personal and collective anxieties lodged deep in the hearts and minds of white Americans.”

And that’s just the first page. Really great, hard-hitting stuff by Ebony on this topic.
on Fri 6 Jan 2012 at 19:20:12 Happiness

That picture is scary.

Well, I think a lot of people are racist due to conditioning, upbringing and media influence. There are probabaly other factors that I haven’t added.

Jealousy and envy as people already mentionedis another reason why.

A lot of people who have negative stereotypes about black people hardly know any black people and even if they do, have been given a negative view of black people through the media, newspapers, magazines etc. All the way down to ideals of beauty and what beauty or lack of it, should look like.
on Fri 6 Jan 2012 at 19:27:54 Nom De Plume

@Danila:

That Ebony magazine link is great. Thank you!
on Fri 6 Jan 2012 at 19:30:03 CDF

I’ll co-sign with “Strongblack” and “Mel”. It’s the irony of perceived superiority (genetics) and use of religion (non-White origin) that seals the deal for me…:/
on Fri 6 Jan 2012 at 19:34:40 Tyrone

Abagond:

Whites are not happy being white…Bottomline! If they were happy, they wouldn’t waste time trying to keep black people under their boot. Black people were brainwashed to think that white racism was always about whites viewing themselves as better than us…Wrong! If that was true, whites wouldn’t obsess over black folk as much as they do…Real Talk! Jealousy and envy is the issue that we often overlook. There is a reason why so many blackwomen were raped by white slaveholders. It wasn’t just about having control over blackwomen, sexual lust was a major factor as well. Abagond, white people don’t wanna get deep with it on this level. Tyrone doesn’t care about feelings, I gotta keep it funky at all times……Yessssssssss!

Tyrone
Black Eros Movement
on Fri 6 Jan 2012 at 19:37:22 Randy

Every single black person in the eyes of white people is the sign of a terrible crime from their ugly past, a reminder that their life is a fraud, that they are pretty much nothing more than armed robbers.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts. I’ve never heard a single white person express this view. I’m sure there are white folks who believe this, but they have to be a tiny minority.

You’ve always struck me as a sharp guy, so I’m surprised that you would err so completely with this observation.
on Fri 6 Jan 2012 at 19:43:58 Teddy

“These people hate us like WE kidnapped them from Europe, ripped them away from their cultures, split apart their families, enslaved them, murdered them, raped the women, mutilated the men and enacted Jim Crow laws against them.”

Of course, you think about your enemies the way you think they think about you.
on Fri 6 Jan 2012 at 20:02:46 darqbeauty

@ Teddy

I’m not understanding your reply. Elaborate please.
on Fri 6 Jan 2012 at 20:07:13 Jessica

Abagond,

Dr. Frances Cress Welsing theorizes it best. Please look her up and maybe do a post about her. It’s “white genetic survival” even Mark Twain commented on the insecurity of white skin juxtaposed to “beautiful black skin”.
on Fri 6 Jan 2012 at 20:07:22 Sarah

Good post, very uncomfortable reading.

It’s partly victim-blaming: the people on top want to believe we live in a fair world, therefore as the world clearly isn’t fair to POC there must be something wrong with them that caused it. But there’s more to it than that, because people who should understand all about victim blaming, like many white feminists, still manage to hold on to their racim.

I think Mel‘s explanation is part of it too, but it doesn’t explain why it’s so hard for white people to rid themselves of their racism, why white people cling both conciously and subconciously onto their racist worldview.

As for your points Abagond (thinking about whether they apply to my mindset, not disputing the general argument):
1. Narcissism A year ago I’d have said it was ridiculous that any of my self-worth came from being white: after all I almost never thought about my whiteness. But the shame I feel at reading about more and more white atrocities against POC, and the confusion I feel about becoming ashamed of my race, suggests that whiteness was a more important part of my identity than I knew. Or maybe feeling ashamed is natural, but doesn’t necessarily mean I was proud of being white before… I’m not sure yet.

2. Dichotomous thinking Yes. I can’t square “I am a racist” with “I am a good person” and I haven’t been willing to abandon the second one. I’ve currently fudged a compromise of “I am a racist, but it’s not my fault because I didn’t decide to be one, and I’m still a good person because now I know about it I’m trying to stop it.” It’s ridiculous, but hard to break out of this dichotomous thinking thing!

3. Moral blindness I don’t understand what this paragraph is trying to say. Is it basically the same point as paragraph one? I understand the statement about reparations which you explained to me a while ago.Could you explain what you mean when you say moral blindness? I can’t find a good definition of this phrase.

sepultura, I’m sorry about how your co-workers treat you, it must be so hard to have to deal with that every single day.
on Fri 6 Jan 2012 at 20:13:09 Teddy

No time now, but, if you know who did what to whom, even if you are pretty sure that your ancestors (barring the ancestors by rape) could not have been involved with slavery in any way for geo-historical reasons, but you know that you look like people whose ancestors did do those things, you have reason to fear the revenge of the black people.
And as you, seeing yourself as innocent, fear that other people will see you as guilty based on your looks, you are very close to seeing them as equally guilty.
on Fri 6 Jan 2012 at 20:21:41 darqbeauty

@ Jessica, I agree.
on Fri 6 Jan 2012 at 20:31:42 thordaddy

Abagond,

There is a far more simple answer to your question.

If you were to unload your question just a wee bit and instead asked your “average white person (AWP)” to rate their lifetime experience with blacks as either “bad, fair or good,” the majority would fall below the “fair” level.

Now, you can chalk that up to “racism,” but who REALLY cares anymore?
on Fri 6 Jan 2012 at 20:31:52 Jay from Philly

The fear part is true. The rest isn’t. It’s because they’ve lived in a neighborhood where that nice Black couple moved in down the block. Then the second family moved in, and they weren’t so bad. Then the third and fourth moved in, and they didn’t mow their lawn, they parked in other people’s driveways, played loud music all night, invited sons and nephews and baby daddies to “stay” for a while since he had nowhere else to go after being let out of jail. Then the kids couldn’t play on the block anymore without being assaulted. Neighbor’s houses started getting broken into and car windows get smashed. The corner deli got robbed and the owner got shot. For Sale signs started going up and prices started to drop and Section 8 landlords swooped in bought up properties for cheap flooding the neighborhood with hoodrats. Next thing you know you’re underwater on your mortgage and a prisoner in your own home.

The reverse is also true. They’ve bought a house in a really cheap neighborhood and get the stank-eye from your neighbors. They glare at you from the front stoop when you get home from work, throw trash on the ground in front of you when your sweeping up out front, and scream “AH KNOW YOU AIN’ MOVIN’ IN HEE-AH!”. Then you try to show up the community meeting where they talk over you, interrupt you, and say pass the sign-up lists away from you. Efforts to clean up that garbage-strewn vacant lot are met with “I’d rather have a drug-dealer selling out of there than a white person planting a community garden.” Your attempt to open a coffee shop is met with hysterical opposition and legal roadblocks thrown up by the poverty pimp councilwoman. That old lady in a red wig and robe gets all neck-rolling on you becayse the drug dealer you called the cops on was her boy Ray Ray who “wuz gettin his lahf tugevah”. Flyers are passed around of coffee shops and condos and cafes with outdoor seating with wording about how “HERE THEY COME” and what “the community” has to to do stop it. Then some would-be robbery victim shoots back and “the community” takes to the streets in protest of a white man defending himself.

The first part happened in Grays Ferry. The second part is happening now in Point Breeze and around Temple.
on Fri 6 Jan 2012 at 20:48:25 JT

@ Randy

“Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts. I’ve never heard a single white person express this view. I’m sure there are white folks who believe this, but they have to be a tiny minority.

You’ve always struck me as a sharp guy, so I’m surprised that you would err so completely with this observation.”

Noone is referring to on the explicit level. What is unconscious and/or automatic/implict racism for $400 Alex. Is an indirect form that seeps through the cracks of the facade. Study up Randy etc.

As a white person i recognize it in my own people. Time to wake up Randy. The time for denial/avoidance has reached its end.
on Fri 6 Jan 2012 at 20:51:32 darqbeauty

Ahhh, so it’s OUR fault that they hate us and have hated us for centuries way before “That old lady in a red wig and robe gets all neck-rolling on you becayse the drug dealer you called the cops on was her boy Ray Ray who “wuz gettin his lahf tugevah”.”

First it was because we we uncivilized, then it was because we are subhuman, then less intelligent, then because we were born slaves. Funny how that works…..
Real funny. I have a feeling that if we a model minority, then we would still be hated. Just like Asians who they claim to love but love to make fun of. To the point of trying to make their scholastic studiousness and intelligence a draw back. White people have never needed a reason to hate Blacks.
on Fri 6 Jan 2012 at 21:02:23 thordaddy

Abagond,

Another weakness in your theory is the lack of straightforward acknowledgement that our “white” perception of blacks didn’t start in some academic sense, but on the pee-wee football fields. It was further enhanced by infrequent trips to the “mall.” It advanced to the basketball courts starting our teenage years. It went from there. The “teaching of racism” was as invisible as you imagine.

Bro… It’s like you live in your own self-created bubble. Separationist at heart. Preacher of integration in the public sphere.
on Fri 6 Jan 2012 at 21:33:37 mochasister

@ Menelik Charles

Why do you think whites have racial envy of us? I’ve heard other Black people say this but for the life of me I don’t understand it. I mean, basically they have a lot of benefits in society that Blacks don’t have. Why would you be envious of someone who (in their opinion) is lesser than a sub human? I’m truly interested in what you or others have to say about racial envy.
on Fri 6 Jan 2012 at 21:38:43 mochasister

@ Abagond

This post is a very interesting one. It’s a question that I (and probably many other Black people) have wondered about for many years. From the time that I first realized that someone could hate me just for the color of my skin (this happened to me at the tender age of eight) to the (almost) age of forty I have wondered why. I could see if I have done something to you but to just hate someone simply for being different doesn’t make sense. It’s someone already stated they act as if we made them endure the Middle Passage, slavery, Reconstruction, Jim Crow and Ronald Reagan.
on Fri 6 Jan 2012 at 21:44:20 mochasister

Another thing that I don’t understand is why a white person who is supposedly so superior to a subhuman Black would want to lie down with one. I truly don’t get that. Why would a white man or white woman want to mate with someone who comes from a group of people who (supposedly) lacks simple intelligence, is uncommonly ugly and has no moral standards? If I truly didn’t respect someone or their culture, I would not be trying to get intimate with that person let alone have children.
on Fri 6 Jan 2012 at 21:50:45 brothawolf

I think it’s important to ask this simple question, what’s wrong with white people? I think this post answers that wholeheartedly.

It’s not us or other POC with the problem. It’s white people with this extreme inferiority complex. This aversion to the truth about their history, and their constant convincing of being normal, good, or better than everyone else, doesn’t show how superior most of them think they are.
on Fri 6 Jan 2012 at 22:03:52 Nom De Plume

@brothawolf:

I remember a post saying something about white men taking the land from red men and forcing chained black men to work it. I can’t imagine feeling good or patriotic about something like that.
on Fri 6 Jan 2012 at 22:21:32 Tyrone

mochasister:

Yes, whites have access to money and power. It makes life easier for whites, but, that doesn’t have anything to do with race. Asian men have money and power, but, the women of their race are poached from them by other men. Blackmen have the least amount of wealth and power among all men, yet, blackmen love themselves the most because they’re black. It doesn’t matter how poor or rich a blackman may be, he’s a member of the “First Tribe” of humankind. That fact alone, gives blackmen bragging rights. Mochasister, do you have a clearer picture of the issue now? Never confuse wealth and race, not the same thing!!!

Tyrone
Black Eros Movement
on Fri 6 Jan 2012 at 23:03:42 ArmChairPsycho

I’ve read the wholesale mistreatment of blacks by whites is a sort of psychological defense mechanism. For whites to treat blacks as anything less than an abomination would be to concede their humanity and thus their inherent equality. And so to accept that fact in the face of the centuries of irrational hatred and unspeakable violence perpetrated by whites against people of color would be to confront their own obscenity to the degree that would shatter their collective psychic identity. In effect, their souls couldn’t bear it. Hence, the charade endures.
on Fri 6 Jan 2012 at 23:08:51 proudchocolategirl

ewww @ that picture
on Fri 6 Jan 2012 at 23:19:50 Matari

As Abagond has frequently stated, there’s nothing wrong with black people!

But there’s something wrong with white people.

They follow a religion, though hardly anyone calls it that, called WHITENESS which encompasses the white racial frame which is basically how whites see themselves (good, normal, nice, etc) how they see the world (their oyster to do with as they please) and how they see black people (folks to look down on, blame and fear).

And yes, as a collective they do have a crack in their souls which is why I continue to state:

WHITENESS IS DEMONIC!

It alters/harms/ruins the psyche of the card carrying members of the white club/religion. WHITENESS causes them to sever their spiritual/psychic bond/connection to other HUMANS that are people of color.

White people shooting at unarmed black victims of Katrina attempting to cross a bridge into another (white) township to alleviate their suffering …

White people BOMBING an American community known as the Black Wall Street ..

And on and on.
Whiteness is demonic. There is not one good thing about Whiteness!
Nothing, nada, zilch!

@ Jay & Thor
Why are you people even on this site???
What’s your purpose for coming here?
on Sat 7 Jan 2012 at 00:46:04 oyan

I do’nt know the race of the children/parents, or of the school district members and teachers, but I thought this was despicably interesting.
—————————————————————————–

Parents outraged after homework assignment refers to slavery,… | http://www.wsbtv.com

Slavery homework assignment

Several Gwinnett parents contacted Channel 2 Action News in outrage after their children brought home a math assignment that referenced slavery and beatings.

Christopher Braxton talked with Channel 2′s Kerry Kavanaugh and said he couldn’t believe it when he read his 8-year-old son’s math homework Wednesday.

“It kind of blew me away,” Braxton said. “Do you see what I see? Do you really see what I see? He’s not answering this question.”

The question was a word problem that said, “Each tree had 56 oranges. If eight slaves pick them equally, then how much would each slave pick?”

Another math problem said, “If Frederick got two beatings per day, how many beatings did he get in 1 one week?”

“I was furious at that point in time,” Braxton said.
on Sat 7 Jan 2012 at 01:22:44 Sarah

”
Roach said the administration will work with teachers on how to develop better questions that are “meaningful and appropriate.”

That’s what the spokeswoman has to say about this??
on Sat 7 Jan 2012 at 01:24:13 Sarah

(That was meant to be a shocked face, it looks more smiley than I expected.)
on Sat 7 Jan 2012 at 01:35:34 V-4

For those whites that are out and out racist and not just have one random prejudice but basically as a consistent behavior on some conscious or subconscious level.

Well; from what I’ve gathered, I want to say on this blog but it could be elsewhere, racism first really started out at about the same time people started enslaving via race instead of humanity in general.

And there’s this thing about a goat experiment, also can’t remember if it was here or elsewhere that I heard about it. Where these guys in the military had to do various tests and experiments on goats, and far as everybody knew, none of them had any specific phobias or dislikes of goats before they started doing it.

But it wasn’t long into the tests that apparently the various people involved in it started having negative opinions about goats, they are dirty etc….and so on.

Basically they know they have to do bad things against them, so they give themselves negative opinions of them so they can feel justified and not morally repulsed by their actions.
on Sat 7 Jan 2012 at 02:36:28 Mel

@Oyan,

I think the “math” problems are deliberate. We’ve moved into an era where ppl believe it’s their RIGHT to offend black people because it fits into the larger philosophical point they think they need to make: our culture is too PC.

I can’t imagine how anyone writing these problems couldn’t look at them and see something wrong. It must be a case of wilful blindness.
on Sat 7 Jan 2012 at 03:17:49 brothawolf

@Nom De Plume

You’re right, but they have means that helps them feel good and patriotic despite those facts. The same means should be used to heel those who are the victims of the past and present. This is how sick this society truly is whether they want to admit it or not.

@Matari

There’s no other way to put it. Whiteness IS demonic indeed. It’s pure hell inflicted on nonwhites. And the reason why Jay and Thor come here is because they don’t have anything better to do and they too are suffering from a major case of mental whiteness. Why else would they come to this blog and say the usual lines over and over again knowing most people, including Abagond, will never agree with them?
on Sat 7 Jan 2012 at 04:19:22 The Cynic

In America, much of the racism is heavily laced with classism. Many white ppl just want somebody to feel better than so they can artificially inflate their self-esteem.

p.s. Does anybody know what happened to the commenter King?
on Sat 7 Jan 2012 at 04:27:14 oyan

sepultura13
I’m reminded of this every day at work…the way I’m treated, compared with my co-workers, is sub-human at best. I see the backs of people’s heads as they walk by, as they do their utmost to not make eye contact with me because I might *GASP* say ‘hello’ to them or something! Being polite and cordial terrifies them, it seems…it’s truly INSANE.\
—————————————————————————————————

Mostly every job I’ve had was ‘this environment.’ At my current place of empoyment, yesterday at the all faculty meeting, a woman in my division walked around in our meeting with a pen(?) that had a large doll like head of one of those minstrel faces from the 1920′s of a black face, with large white lips and large bulging white eyes. A black employee walked over to her and asked her what it was, and she proudly responds, oh, my significant other got this for me, and look what it does, to which the white employee held it up in the black employees face, and clicked the object, to which it lit up, from its eyes. This object was both a pen and flashlight. Very offensive.
She walked around with it all day in her hand.
on Sat 7 Jan 2012 at 04:34:53 commentarybyvalentina

“After all, plenty of poor whites are racist. About all they have to show for it is this: “At least I’m not black.” And that gives it away: it is about white self-image.”

Is it White self-image or White privilege?

If a poor White man and a rich Black man are standing on opposing corners at 3am and a cop drives by, who is more likely to draw the attention of the police?

No matter how poor, being White has its privileges, don’t you think?
on Sat 7 Jan 2012 at 08:09:20 abagond

@ commentarybyvalentina

I agree about the fact of white privilege even for poor whites, but I doubt many poor whites themselves see it that way, at least not at the level of material self-interest, which is what I was arguing.
on Sat 7 Jan 2012 at 08:41:33 abagond

@ Randy

“Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts. I’ve never heard a single white person express this view. I’m sure there are white folks who believe this, but they have to be a tiny minority.

You’ve always struck me as a sharp guy, so I’m surprised that you would err so completely with this observation.”

I never said they express that view. To the contrary, I said they avoid it with lies, twisted facts, stereotypes and all the rest. It is from the way they avoid it that I know they know it and know that it makes them uncomfortable.

If we assume you are right then we would have to conclude that whites are either not terribly bright (they do not understand how and why blacks got to America) or they are (and this could be true, unfortunately) even more breathtakingly delusional and heartless than I suspected.
on Sat 7 Jan 2012 at 08:50:44 abagond

@ ArmChairPsycho:

You know just where I am coming from.

@ darqbeauty

Right, it has nothing to do with what black people are doing or failing to do, now or in the past.
on Sat 7 Jan 2012 at 08:57:24 abagond

@ cj-canadian

The Reckless Tortuga videos on racism are great.
on Sat 7 Jan 2012 at 08:59:43 Happiness

The more I read this blog, the more it seems like a psychology experiment to me. Maybe, it’s just the way the blog comes across to me.

When reading here, I always feel that I should be on my guard. I think it’s a TRUST issue.
on Sat 7 Jan 2012 at 09:13:38 abagond

@ Jessica

Yes, I will have to read her.
on Sat 7 Jan 2012 at 09:23:48 abagond

@ Sarah

“Could you explain what you mean when you say moral blindness? I can’t find a good definition of this phrase.”

I should probably do a post on it since I bring it up quite a bit.

Moral blindness is where you are blind to the evil you do or which is done in your name. You lie to yourself, rationalize, minimize, remain wilfully ignorant, blame the victim, etc.
on Sat 7 Jan 2012 at 09:30:29 abagond

@ Sarah

“I think Mel‘s explanation is part of it too, but it doesn’t explain why it’s so hard for white people to rid themselves of their racism, why white people cling both conciously and subconciously onto their racist worldview.”

Right, which is why I think it is more than simple brainwashing and ignorance. It is extremely resistant to facts. It is too deeply held for that.
on Sat 7 Jan 2012 at 10:43:33 teddy1975

@darqbeauty
“Ahhh, so it’s OUR fault that they hate us and have hated us for centuries way before.”

I dont think so, not about that centuries way before. For most of history slavery was accepted, and it has known many different forms, Hating slaves as a group did not make sense at all, it is as stupid as hating sheep. Dehumanizing them, making the free people, no matter how poor, feel in the same class as the slave owners, to prevent a revolution of the combined slaves and paupers against the powerfull slave owning class, makes perfect sense. I am afraid that this system of keeping the low low by playing the different low classes, is still very much alive.
on Sat 7 Jan 2012 at 11:09:33 teddy1975

playing the different low classes against eachother, of course.
on Sat 7 Jan 2012 at 13:36:52 Lara

@Tyrone
“There is a reason why so many blackwomen were raped by white slaveholders. It wasn’t just about having control over blackwomen, sexual lust was a major factor as well.”

I know that black boys are taught from a young age that black women must be kept on a pedestal and continually told how wonderful they are. Even so, women don’t really like this. For some reason, it makes us less attracted to you when you do this.
on Sat 7 Jan 2012 at 14:10:23 Happiness

“I know that black boys are taught from a young age that black women must be kept on a pedestal and continually told how wonderful they are.”

Who told you this? How do you know this?

Sometimes I read comments on this blog and have to just burst out laughing. Getting a good laugh is one of the reasons I probably return here too often.

In the meantime…..No mention of the Diana Abbott tweets about “divide and conquer” and current Labour controversy, seeing as it is so relevant to this blog and its topics.
on Sat 7 Jan 2012 at 15:00:59 JT

Abagond,

I guarantee that the majority of what you are referring to is a combination of moral blindness and simple ignorance. Since the majority of whites remain unaffected by racism today and yesterday, they have little to point out about it except that they are not!!!

Now to the point i am guilty of bringing up too frequently:

What is preventing you from summarizing the main points of your blog in a manifesto and having your followers forward it to as many organizations and institutions as possible around the country? I know i would damn well do that bc i believe that a manifesto needs to be written so that every time these act of moral blindness etc. are pulled publicly/privately Blacks, Whites etc. can refer to such a document and say this is what you’re doing and its been done ad nauseum by other white oppressors. Here is the document that proves it.

Just a thought! Bc i really feel that evry person needs access to such a resource. Otherwise they are doomed to repeating the mistakes of the same ignorant/morally blind family/community members that do the same shit.

It is like a constitution!
on Sat 7 Jan 2012 at 15:13:28 teddy1975

@Happiness, maybe you should assume that Lara has a sense of humor, and merely indicates that women do not like it at all when mentioning a historical desire to rape them is considered as a compliment.
on Sat 7 Jan 2012 at 16:01:44 Matari

Things white people like to do:

Be in charge/center stage – by telling black people how they should go about combating white racism practiced by OTHER WHITES by writing a manifesto/constitution.

News Flash:
Someone needs to read Racism 101
-especially the part where it says that it’s white people’s primary RESPONSIBILITY to get other white people to STOP BEING RACIST. This is not the responsibility of black people, or other POC.

http://resistracism.wordpress.com/racism-101/
on Sat 7 Jan 2012 at 16:10:04 Lara

teddy,
I do have a sense of humor, but my comment was serious. Actually men rape women for two reasons, they are attracted to her or they want to punish her men.
From what I’ve heard, black women don’t exactly play hard to get. I just don’t buy this myth that black women were quaking in fear when a white man showed up.
on Sat 7 Jan 2012 at 16:22:59 Nom De Plume

@oyan:

I don’t know the race of the children/parents, or of the school district members and teachers, but I thought this was despicably interesting.

Parents outraged after homework assignment refers to slavery

—-

I found the vid.
on Sat 7 Jan 2012 at 16:28:04 Lara

“Who told you this? How do you know this?”

Black men are constantly talking about how wonderful, beautiful, and strong black women are. It seems like they are afraid to criticize them, and are over the top in their praise. I’m glad white men don’t do this, because I don’t like being idealized like that.
on Sat 7 Jan 2012 at 16:54:15 V-4

Aside from a psychological need to justify their actions or simply to feel better about themselves I would say ignorance.

Black people are basically foreign, the other,exotic, not many white people have much of any interaction at all with black people, admitably much of that may simply be by choice but it still has the consequence of not knowing anything about that group they are not interacting/avoiding.

At least not on any real level.

That said; one of the most racist people I know gets along with black people and interacts with them fairly well, he just rarely slips up around them about it.

And ultimately because they actually believe these things, they’ve been told this misinformation their entire lives by their parents, tv, etc….and they’ve simply never questioned it.

Much like most peole don’t question their religion or historical and scientific teachings at school, they just process it, go on with their lives and rarely honestly think about it to the point its almost instinct.

Then of course factor in tribalism, nationalism etc…..many times minorities retain differences in their culture as compared to the main stream.

Which sure; they should be able to keep that connection but it also means that you are yourself defining and demonstrating to be “the other” by not becoming totally assimilated.

Though being a different race thats pretty much a given anyways.
on Sat 7 Jan 2012 at 17:00:49 Happiness

@Lara

“Black men are constantly talking about how wonderful, beautiful, and strong black women are.”

Well, black women have to be strong with all the BS that we have to put up with such as rumours, false information, tyrants, stereotypes, overexaggerated lies told about us everyday.

In fact, it is a black man’s responsibility to uplift black women instead of going around saying bad stuff about us, as if everyone else doesn’t do a fine job of that already.

Anyway, go and watch some videos on YouTube, you don’t always see black men saying good things about black women.

In the meantime….Back to Diana Abbott, why is everyone jumping on that woman….When white politicians say racist stuff, everyone just brushes it off as though it is nothing and they never say “apologise or resign” to any of those people. The main problem with being a politician is that you are under somebody’s thumb, you can’t say what you want to say without everyone wanting to jump on you and eat you…..I hate that.

@teddy1975

Why should a black woman, white woman or any woman find it a compliment that a brutish male wants to rape them? That just means that the creature, regardless of colour, cannot control himself. It’s a matter of self-control.

There also seems to be a lot of these stalker-like men prowling the streets as well. Self defence is important against a maniac/nutcase.
on Sat 7 Jan 2012 at 17:13:00 teddy1975

Beats me, Happiness, that was the way I read Tyrone’s comment.
on Sat 7 Jan 2012 at 17:28:02 V-4

I wouldn’t call rape a matter of self-control, most of them have plenty of thought about who it is they rape.

Usually go for the victims least likely to report to the police, friends, family, children etc…..

They aren’t people who lack self-control; they’re just people who like hurting and raping others to feel a sense of domination.

So I was thinking about Kenya Moore/other black women suggested for the part and their multiracial features and its not really fair to call black people self-hating for liking those who are multiracial, in the US most black people are multiracial so of course thats what they are attracted to.
on Sat 7 Jan 2012 at 17:29:23 V-4

Totally wrong post; that was supposed to go on the Zula one, inregards to the Kenya Moore bit.
on Sat 7 Jan 2012 at 17:35:55 Lara

Happiness,
I generally find it is nerdy black men who treat black women like queens.
I’ve listened to a show from someone named Thugtician, who is very critical of black women. He is too harsh, but my guess is black women behave like ladies in front of him.
on Sat 7 Jan 2012 at 18:15:37 leigh204

@ Matari:

News Flash:
Someone needs to read Racism 101
-especially the part where it says that it’s white people’s primary RESPONSIBILITY to get other white people to STOP BEING RACIST. This is not the responsibility of black people, or other POC.

http://resistracism.wordpress.com/racism-101/

Amen!!!
on Sat 7 Jan 2012 at 18:24:36 Happiness

@Lara,

Was that on YouTube? The Thugtician?

Ok, I just looked him up on YouTube, they have closed his account.

I think a lot of black guys treat women like queens not just the nerdy ones, just a matter of finding the right one really. Anyway, if a man is constantly criticising black women then I don’t bother to go to their channel again. There was someone like that on YouTube, blocked and deleted, he was always rude and annoying as well. Also, I tend to avoid those types of videos.

@V-4
“They aren’t people who lack self-control; they’re just people who like hurting and raping others to feel a sense of domination.”

That’s true. I guess a rapist knows why they commit this crime. I was watching a video on YouTube of a mass murderer who had been killing people, they were talking to him in jail, he looked normal as well and was well educated. I think he was executed, I didn’t watch the whole video though.
on Sat 7 Jan 2012 at 18:25:48 Herneith

What is preventing you from summarizing the main points of your blog in a manifesto and having your followers forward it to as many organizations and institutions as possible around the country?

Doh-re-me. You see it is like this, will he get paid? This is very time consuming and expensive, that which you propose. Perhaps you can set up a fund?

I know i would damn well do that bc i believe that a manifesto needs to be written so that every time these act of moral blindness etc. are pulled publicly/privately Blacks, Whites etc. can refer to such a document and say this is what you’re doing and its been done ad nauseum by other white oppressors.

From personal experience, they will do the following; Accuse this ‘manifesto’ of being ‘racist’ as it describes modes of speech and behaviour which occur daily;but it will be the blacks who are racists. Flipping the script seems to be something they are adroit at. White folks feelings have been hurt by this! This manifesto you propose will be branded a left wingnut, politically correct by a nigra who 1. Doesn’t know his place. 2. As per Randy, a sharp nigra. 3. He has hurt a lot of white folks feelings and sensibilities with his posts. 4. doesn’t know his place. 6. Once such a manifesto was sent to ‘institutions they would probably send the CIA or the National Enquirer(same things) after him. 7. One would have to have an inkling, just an inkling mind you, as to what he is trying to put across. My guess is that most don’t, this is evinced by many of the obtuse posters this blog has had in the past and currently has, who argue the inarguable. 8. He doesn’t know his place.
on Sat 7 Jan 2012 at 18:37:13 Lara

Happiness,
My guess is black women got him shut down. Rule number one of PC is, don’t ever criticize black women, they are perfect.
on Sat 7 Jan 2012 at 19:06:52 Demerera

@Lara

I’m glad white men don’t do this, because I don’t like being idealized like that.

Is this your experience? No-one has ever treated you as if/told you that you were special or put you up on a pedestal? Often, this happens whether we ‘court’ it or not. You cant literally ‘demand’ that people think like this. But I must say, no wonder your posts often read as though you are resentful towards BW.

I can understand the pressure that might be felt with being idealised but I dont think it follows to the same degree in ‘day to day’ life i.e. people idealise celebrities as they are ‘sold’ a particular image about that individual but we dont really ‘know’ that person. In ‘reality’ people are much more accessible and their good points and flaws become apparent much more readily.

My guess is black women got him shut down. Rule number one of PC is, don’t ever criticize black women, they are perfect

You think BW are that powerful? Some people strive for perfection and like to be respected for this and why not. Maybe you feel that you’re not worth the effort but not everyone thinks like that.
on Sat 7 Jan 2012 at 19:16:10 Truthbetold

@ Abagond,
Most whites fear, demonize and hate blacks for one simple reason:
It’s all they have.

Self esteem, or lack thereof, is the reason why people hate. Whites were oppressed in their own land, hated their own lives, hated their women and ultimately, themselves.

Slavery was a great way to feel better about their dullness, lack of culture, lack of thanksgiving, lack of life…
You will never find an answer to this, my friend.
It exists because it can. And, sadly, it will never end.

Menelik charles is correct. Envy is a HUGE part of this hatred. Whites lack culture, so they adapt to the culture of others. They lack style, so they want our style, our dress. They lack dance, music, aging gracefully, food, soul, our bodies…so they want ours. They are reeling from this ” disconnect ” because they have nothing that makes their lives meaningful.

Oh…wait…they have money.
So what?
At the end of they day, they are still left wanting.

This hatred of blacks comes from hatred of themselves.
on Sat 7 Jan 2012 at 20:48:51 Nom De Plume

@V-4

‘…one of the most racist people I know gets along with black people and interacts with them fairly well, he just rarely slips up around them about it.’

—-

I don’t doubt it. It’s the most dangerous kind of racism, IMO. It’s the ‘smile in your face/stab you in the back’ kind. He may not slip up around them now, but he eventually will. It always comes out in one way or another.
on Sat 7 Jan 2012 at 20:59:24 Truthbetold

@ Nom de Plume

The ” smile in your face, stab you in the back” kind is heavily seen in the workplace.
Most blacks are very aware of this hypocrisy. Whites have no trouble playing a round of pool / golf with the person they are about to slaughter.

I tried to have white friends in the past. At work and outside of work. Race always come up in the most uncomfortable fashion.
The Obama campaign taught me a lesson I’ll never forget.
on Sat 7 Jan 2012 at 21:09:49 Lara

Truthbetold,
Thinking everyone is jealous of you is probably the reason you have trouble making and keeping friends.
Demerera,
Many black women are more confident than they should be. They are behind on every measure of success, and yet have sky high self esteem. Why?
on Sat 7 Jan 2012 at 21:13:53 Nom De Plume

@Truthbetold:

The ” smile in your face, stab you in the back” kind is heavily seen in the workplace.
—-

I know all too well. I have more than a few scars.
on Sat 7 Jan 2012 at 21:19:24 Lara

“Slavery was a great way to feel better about their dullness, lack of culture, lack of thanksgiving, lack of life…”

Or maybe they just needed the cotton picked.
on Sat 7 Jan 2012 at 21:23:16 Truthbetold

@ Lara,
Why do you insist on coming here? You are purposefully twisting words and ultimately missing the point. Please see example #3 of this blog.

@ Nom de Plume
I too have scars. That’s why I now work mostly from home.
on Sat 7 Jan 2012 at 21:27:57 Lara

What point have I missed? You said that white people lack style, culture, dancing ability, musical ability, good bodies, good food, aging gracefully and soul. You said we are dull.
on Sat 7 Jan 2012 at 21:29:46 Lara

“I too have scars. That’s why I now work mostly from home.”

I thought black women were strong.
on Sat 7 Jan 2012 at 21:30:23 Demerera

@Lara

Many black women are more confident than they should be. Compared to who – you? As stated previously, just because you have decided not to make an effort yourself doesnt mean others should follow.

They are behind on every measure of success, and yet have sky high self esteem.
I think its already been established that you dont know any BW Lara so I am at a loss here as to who you are comparing yourself with. Don’t forget, you openly admitted frequenting an online dating site that boasts that it is ‘number one for sugar daddies’ so perhaps we can deduce that you yourself have not reached any measure of success and need a man with deep pockets to support you.

Why? Why not?
on Sat 7 Jan 2012 at 21:30:39 Truthbetold

@ Brothawolf,
The inferiority complex is the underlying reason why we are made into demons.
Remember the resturant scene in Scarface?
Tony Montana said society needs people like him so they could point their fingers and say that’s the bad guy.

Whites need us a lot more than we need them. Without us, they would lack a comparison.
on Sat 7 Jan 2012 at 21:33:17 Lara

“Whites need us a lot more than we need them. Without us, they would lack a comparison.”

And without us, you would lack indoor plumbing.
on Sat 7 Jan 2012 at 21:34:55 Truthbetold

@ Lara,
Last week, I wrote to Jay from philly on another subject who has ideas shockingly similar to yours. I wonder if there’s a secret club…?

I will not respond to your particular brand of ” dialogue” anymore.
on Sat 7 Jan 2012 at 21:36:54 sepultura13

@ Truthbetold, oyan, and Nom De Plume:

Sounds like we bear the same scars. Two sayings come to mind:

“Damned if you do; damned if you don’t.”
“I must be a mushroom – I’m kept in the dark and fed a diet of shit.”

This is what the workplace is like, whether the environment is white-collar or blue. It’s frustrating.
on Sat 7 Jan 2012 at 21:39:20 Demerera

@Lara

“I too have scars. That’s why I now work mostly from home.”

I thought black women were strong.

By admitting that someone has been ‘scarred’ by past events suddenly makes them weak?

Seriously Lara, I have suggested it before but, I honestly get the sense that you have a masochistic personality. You come on here and contribute to conversations with people that, in your day to day life, seem to leave you reeling with confusion, resentment and envy and more than once, you have alluded to the fact that you dont respond well (inwardly) to being treated ‘nicely’. You seem to be oblivious to the fact that your posts reflect extremely low self esteem and instead, you make your comments and asides to genuine posters who come on here to engage and interact.

You can’t get frustrated by those who want to be treated decently and respectfully just because you seem to have come to terms with the fact that you dont like/dont deserve to be revered.
on Sat 7 Jan 2012 at 21:45:15 Lara

Demerera,
If you have a problem with someone at work, you deal with it like an adult and continue to show up to do your job. You don’t request to work at home like a fragile little flower.
on Sat 7 Jan 2012 at 21:48:07 Lara

@Demerera
“You can’t get frustrated by those who want to be treated decently and respectfully just because you seem to have come to terms with the fact that you dont like/dont deserve to be revered.”

Being treated decently and respectfully, does not mean no one is ever allowed to criticize you. Black women actually used to be kind of admirable, not anymore.
on Sat 7 Jan 2012 at 21:57:27 Nana

Lara said:
“Black women actually used to be kind of admirable, not anymore.”

MMM I wonder why that is? could it be that they have been so mistreated that they no longer feel obligated to be nice to people anymore?

In your opinion, why do you think black women use to be admirable? is it because you ‘nice’ white people had your way with them? what changed?
on Sat 7 Jan 2012 at 21:57:37 darqbeauty

Sounds like Lara would be more comfortable at Stormfront. I wonder why is she here. What is she getting from visiting this blog other than telling Black women that we aren’t shit and have too high self esteem issues. “Curiouser and curioser..”
on Sat 7 Jan 2012 at 22:01:29 Nana

Never mind I don’t want to hear your opinion.
on Sat 7 Jan 2012 at 22:14:25 Demerera

@Lara

Being treated decently and respectfully, does not mean no one is ever allowed to criticize you

I agree but, just say for one minute, that the kind of criticism you are facing is unjust? Are you not allowed to respond to that?

Black women actually used to be kind of admirable, not anymore

I guess this is following emancipation…..this must have been such a bind to those who expected people to ‘know their place’…
on Sat 7 Jan 2012 at 22:17:26 Herneith

Many black women are more confident than they should be. They are behind on every measure of success, and yet have sky high self esteem. Why?

Because they aren’t you ‘Lara’.

Or maybe they just needed the cotton picked.

Too bad you weren’t around then! You could have shown them how to do it. Better yet, they may not have even needed slaves with people like yourself; clowns and buffoons. They wouldn’t have gotten much ‘cotton picked’ though as they’d be too busy laughing. You put paid to the notion of white supremacy.

Please see example #3 of this blog.

Maybe ‘Lara’ makes these remarks to illustrate these points.

What point have I missed?

You didn’t miss the point, you missed the ship!

And without us, you would lack indoor plumbing.

Why? Did you invent indoor plumbing? Stop taking credit for inventions you had nothing to do with. The good ol ‘White Inventor Argument’. ‘Lara’, you are a comedian!
on Sat 7 Jan 2012 at 22:53:28 Truthbetold

Aba,
Even if whites pay reparations, that could not repay over 450 years of pain and struggle. Opportunities lost, souls destroyed, countless families gone. Most blacks can’t even trace their family tree…I know I can’t. My grandmother was forced to leave her home and put on some reservation on N. Dakota.
I can’t imagine how they could ever say, ” I’m sorry.”

And to be honest, I don’t know if ” I’m sorry ” will do…

Most whites hold on to their white pride like a badge of honour. No matter how bad things get in their lives, at least they have white skin.
on Sat 7 Jan 2012 at 23:02:59 darqbeauty

@ Truthbetold
Europeans will NEVER give reparations because they would then have to start doling out reparations to everyone. The Tazmanians, the Australian Aborigines, the Native Americans, the Native Canadians, the South Africans, the Japanese, ect. They don’t have enough money in the world to pay for their global terrorism. There’s not enough water on Earth to wash away the collective blood on their hands.
on Sat 7 Jan 2012 at 23:22:28 brothawolf

Darqbeauty

Actually, Lara has been seen on Unamused’s blog which is like Stormfront.
on Sat 7 Jan 2012 at 23:24:09 brothawolf

Truthbetold,

Exactly. Whites need us to be their punching bags.
on Sat 7 Jan 2012 at 23:24:20 Lara

@Nana
“Could it be that they have been so mistreated that they no longer feel obligated to be nice to people anymore?”

Actually, it’s the exact opposite. Black women have been beyond reproach for some time now, and this had made them insufferable. Older black women are usually nice and pleasant. The young ones are not.
on Sat 7 Jan 2012 at 23:43:52 brothawolf

Actually, it’s the exact opposite. Black women have been beyond reproach for some time now, and this had made them insufferable. Older black women are usually nice and pleasant. The young ones are not.

Lara, seriously, why are you here?
on Sat 7 Jan 2012 at 23:46:27 Truthbetold

@ Darqbeauty

Yes. You are correct. This is why they live mostly with the lies they tell themselves.
on Sun 8 Jan 2012 at 00:11:43 Lara

“Lara, seriously, why are you here?”

Because I want to be. Why are you here?
on Sun 8 Jan 2012 at 00:39:21 darqbeauty

We are here because this is SUPPOSED to be a safe place for us to discuss issues at hand without being subject to the condescension of people such as yourself.
As my mother says “We can’t have NOTHIN’.”
on Sun 8 Jan 2012 at 00:40:41 INJen

Wow. I wonder how black folks feel when they hear racist white people say “Why do all black people…[insert whatever hateful gross generalization such as "smoke crack/have babies out of wedlock/take welfare instead of a paycheck"]?”

Generalizations = Ignorance

The fact is, poor black people and poor white people have more in common (and often know it) than they do with their wealthier counterparts. I promise you, many, many whites are too busy trying to hold their day to day lives together to spend time plotting ways to destroy or undermine black people.

And one of the reasons no one is getting reparations from slavery is because of the difficulty in deciding who deserves what/how much. Does an American who descended from 18th century slaves deserve more than a child of a 1st generation African immigrant?

My Nigerian husband’s great-grandfather was kidnapped as a boy by family enemies (other Nigerians) and taken to be sold to traders. He was rescued before he was sold, but who was the bigger monster? The buyer or the seller?

Anyone who thinks evil descended and is perpetrated only from white people refuses to see the real truth: evil lurks in the heart of all. Specific instances of racism, hatred and disrespect should be called out when it’s safe to do so. When it’s not, it’s everyone’s responsibility to bring it to the attention of the entire community (not just close friends) so the perpetrators can be punished and/or isolated.
on Sun 8 Jan 2012 at 00:53:29 JT

Lara, seriously on behalf of the morally unblinded white population (i.e. me), get the &*^% out of here. Your contempt for people of colour is transparent. You perpetuate ugly and outdated myths about people of colour. And you are clearly morally bankrupt and altogether ignorant. In other words, a pest that would have no future in a just society.

Read books by the innumerable black scholars/historians/authors. Do rereading of African/American/W. European history. And reach out into the community. There is more that you could learn than you would ever imagine. Especially, since your current state is less than nil. It’s dangerously misinformed.
on Sun 8 Jan 2012 at 01:30:14 darqbeauty

I see someone is using the Arab slave trader argument. The topic at hand is why WHITES demonize Blacks. No one here is saying that other people don’t do this. We are speaking of the subject at hand.
on Sun 8 Jan 2012 at 01:45:02 Truthbetold

@ INJen

I see your point and it’s a very good one.
But to counter point, the Jews were offered an apology with reparations.
The reason why so many whites remain silent about overt racism is because of fear of being ostracized by their own community.

I believe the reason why blacks will never get any kind of meaningful reparations is because we are still seen as subhuman whilst Jews (mostly) identify as white.
on Sun 8 Jan 2012 at 01:58:12 Nom De Plume

@INJen;

The fact is, poor black people and poor white people have more in common (and often know it) than they do with their wealthier counterparts.

—-

Yet time and time again many poor white people will vote against their own interests.

@INJen:

Specific instances of racism, hatred and disrespect should be called out when it’s safe to do so.

—-

Agreed.

@INJen:

When it’s not, it’s everyone’s responsibility to bring it to the attention of the entire community (not just close friends) so the perpetrators can be punished and/or isolated.

—-

If that only worked. Oftentimes when racism is brought up to the “entire community,” people will still deny that racism was involved, and the person with the complaint will be accused of ‘playing the race card.’ I’ve seen it too many times. When you say, “…so the perpetrators can be punished an/or isolated,” this indicates to me that you personally have not experienced anti-black racism. A person who has, IMO, would not make such an assertion because they know it is not reality.
on Sun 8 Jan 2012 at 02:13:05 Truthbetold

@ Nom De Plume

All excellent points! Well said!!!
An example of this is all the backlash directed at Michelle Obama for urging kids to eat healthy and exercise.

When certain white racists make ugly remarks about her looks / body and some people point out that racism is the foundation, after all noone said a word about Nancy Regan’s ” Just say NO! ” , the offenders are quick to point out that it is the offended that’s playing the race card.
on Sun 8 Jan 2012 at 02:39:48 abagond

@ INJen

“Wow. I wonder how black folks feel when they hear racist white people say “Why do all black people…[insert whatever hateful gross generalization such as "smoke crack/have babies out of wedlock/take welfare instead of a paycheck"]?””

I never said ALL whites. But it is a fact that MOST White Americans do at least one of the things in the title. It is not some gross generalization on my part or the mass hallucination of black people. It is a fact of sociology:

http://abagond.wordpress.com/2011/10/31/colour-blind-racism-the-four-frames/

“Anyone who thinks evil descended and is perpetrated only from white people refuses to see the real truth: evil lurks in the heart of all.”

I never said that whites are the ONLY ones who have done evil in the world. But so far as Black and White Americans are concerned the evil done by others is not the main issue. If you run over my dog, telling me that dogs get hit and killed all the time just makes you look like a cold-hearted jerk. Likewise if your husband sleeps with another woman and then tells you, “Get over it, men do it all the time.”
on Sun 8 Jan 2012 at 03:07:31 Nom De Plume

@truthbetold:

I think many whites believe that in order to be racist, one has to call black people the “N” word to their face, burn crosses in people’s yards, display swastikas, etc. POC understand that oftentimes racism is displayed in more subtle ways, which can make it more challenging to prove…and more easy to deny.

As for the First Lady, you”re right. Occasionally I listen to talk radio. You wouldn’t believe the vitriol out there. I’m amazed at how often they make fun of her appearance and call her “uppity,” a word that has racial undertones here in the U.S. Is that all they can come up with? No other First Lady has been attacked in this way, nor has any President. How many Presidents can you think of who have been asked to show their birth certificates?
on Sun 8 Jan 2012 at 03:11:01 V-4

Inregards to jews and reperations; there are a whole lot less Jews than Black People in the US, probably alot less globally then there are Black People in the US.

I remember hearing the US has more Athiests in it than the world has Jews.
And its not like the US has a boat load of Athiests.

Basically its way cheaper; I remember a statement that supposedly even if we just gave comparable reperations to black people as we have the indians the price would still go up into the trillions of dollars due to the difference in size between the two groups.

Not that it couldn’t be done; it just wouldn’t be cheap.

When people such as Lara etc….make the comment or some variation of, that black women are hard to get along with I always find that strange.

I’ve always got along with them well enough; be polite to them and they are polite back to you the vast majority of the time, thats regardless of whether they like you or not.

Pretty much applies to humanity as a whole.
on Sun 8 Jan 2012 at 03:31:25 brothawolf

@Lara

Because I want to be. Why are you here?

I’m here to learn something. What’s your excuse?

All you’re doing is illustrating the topic at hand. You’ve brought nothing – absolutely nothing constructive to the conversation. You’ve shown that you have a trace of narcissism and moral blindness with every comment you make. No one with an open mind takes you seriously. The only reason why you continue to show up is because you have yet to say something that would get you banned here. (I hope you will)

Anyway, whiteness trumps humanity from what I’ve seen. Whites and POC who are sick with whiteness will display the usual symptoms all for the objective of putting down other POC, including their own, and putting whites on some pedestal. It’s never about doing the right thing, but doing what’s right for white people.
on Sun 8 Jan 2012 at 03:34:31 JT

@Herneith

“From personal experience, they will do the following; Accuse this ‘manifesto’ of being ‘racist’ as it describes modes of speech and behaviour which occur daily;but it will be the blacks who are racists. Flipping the script seems to be something they are adroit at. White folks feelings have been hurt by this! This manifesto you propose will be branded a left wingnut, politically correct by a nigra who 1. Doesn’t know his place. 2. As per Randy, a sharp nigra. 3. He has hurt a lot of white folks feelings and sensibilities with his posts. 4. doesn’t know his place. 6. Once such a manifesto was sent to ‘institutions they would probably send the CIA or the National Enquirer(same things) after him. 7. One would have to have an inkling, just an inkling mind you, as to what he is trying to put across. My guess is that most don’t, this is evinced by many of the obtuse posters this blog has had in the past and currently has, who argue the inarguable. 8. He doesn’t know his place”

And all of that is (99% chance) very well going to be true. Nonetheless, we (meaning anyone that is anyone) need to INSTRUCT others how we are to be treated.

This is not to say that that instruction has been missing. I reassert this: I am not shifting the blame on people of colour. What i am trying to say is that in a perfect world we would never need to say it in a way that white people understand. However, unfortunately the world we live in is one wherein we have to accommodate the IDIOT-syncracies of the educate the uneducated and suffer the insufferable.

This refers wholly to white people bc the alternative is being in a state of constant conflict bc of their inability to appreciate the beauty/genius/languages etc that is black people. So others have to teach them.

Once a lesson plan has been written by someone on this board (i.e. any of the posters or owner of the site) or someone else thereafter, it is up to the rest of social justice minded individuals to have the fight on our backs for that effort. Executing the plan and addressing the misinformed and bigoted (i.e. any of those that come on this board or the hundreds of millions of whites across the world).

This is why i restate: It is the responsibility of a leader amongst the black community to write a declaration to the of racism. And then it is up to anyone who hopes for a better future to execute this dream.

JT
on Sun 8 Jan 2012 at 03:47:49 brothawolf

@Nom de plume

Most of these poor whites will side with rich, powerful whites based on the association of white skin. They see them as people who have their best interest at heart even though they will get shafted in the end like black and brown folks. Still, they will point to the problems of society on black and brown people and never at the rich and powerful white men.

Also, whites have been taught in one way or another about what’s good and what’s bad when it comes to race. Whites who mean well believe that racism involves name calling, hate groups, and crimes against blacks. They were also taught that it existed heavily in the past and that it rarely happens today. Those who still commit to those acts are ousted by other whites. They don’t want to be associated with them which is funny considering how all blacks must take responsibility for a crime against a white person by one or a few blacks.

Now, at the same time they are taught about their many accomplishments, inventions, and heroes, and are shown how they are superior in subtle ways all the time. They see their faces as positive images everywhere. They are told that they are “normal” people, that they are basically good, and that only they have what it takes to make it in society.

However, what many of these white folks don’t know is that racism is also systematic or institutional, that history plays an important part on how society operates today, that they have many privileges based on their skin, and that they live in a society of white supremacy and they live in a bubble of sorts.

Some of them don’t know it. Some of them know it, but don’t care. Some of them believe they are victims of racism against them. And some of them don’t want to know it. They are so lost that you can’t make heads or tails of this and they prefer it that way.
on Sun 8 Jan 2012 at 04:22:44 Nom De Plume

Break it down, brothawolf! Break it down!
on Sun 8 Jan 2012 at 06:32:10 Herneith

“Lara, seriously, why are you here?”

Everyone needs a hobby. ‘Lara’s’ is going to blogs such as this and making intentionally stupid and incendiary remarks. Either ‘Lara’ is a good comedian or is obtuse as to the ideas being posted here. In any case all ‘Lara’ should be met with is ridicule as should the other clowns posting along the same lines. They are here to be obstructive not instructive, nor do they wish to impart knowledge. Maniacal, ramblings such as HBD and other forms of white supremacy lunacy doesn’t count and that is what they contribute. To be succinct; they are full of festering fecal matter. A purgative is in order.
on Sun 8 Jan 2012 at 06:55:26 Jessica
on Sun 8 Jan 2012 at 07:25:39 baruga

WTF saying that white people have a crack in their soul and that history shows that there is something seriously wrong with them is a fucked up and incredibly racist thing to say. Don’t you realize that by saying shit like this you are having the EXACT SAME MINDSET that you accuse white people of having?

How is white=bad a better message than black=bad? both are just as misinformed, racist, offensive, and completely untrue. It’s sad to watch someone who seems to crusade against racism fall prey to it himself. It’s like you have adopted the same mindset that you attack white people for.

I don’t deny that white people do heinous and terrible things sometimes, but that does not mean that all white people have a crack in their soul. They are still people like anyone else. Demonizing whites in the same way that whites have demonized blacks is not okay. Don’t stoop to their level, abagond.
on Sun 8 Jan 2012 at 08:38:36 abagond

@ baruga:

So if I demonized the Nazis for what they did to the Jews, would that make me just as bad as a Nazi? Would that be stooping to their level?

White Americans wiped out the Native Americans, took their land and then forced millions of black people to be slaves to work that land. They are STILL racist against them and STILL benefit materially from their racism both past and present. All of that is true. None of it is a lie or a stereotype or a gross generalization. I am not twisting facts. If anything, I am understating them.

You do not get to do stuff like that and expect people to keep their mouths shut about it. I am not demonizing them – their own actions have. They are the ones who marked themselves off from the rest of mankind and made themselves, in effect, a criminal organization.

And once again, I did not say ALL whites. I said MANY White Americans. It could be argued that only 10% of them are like that while the rest of them are fucking cowards, mindless sheep whose silence is bought and paid for.

Stop being a sheep.
on Sun 8 Jan 2012 at 08:54:20 leigh204

As always, abagond, you hit the nail on the head.
on Sun 8 Jan 2012 at 10:06:58 baruga

Abagond, people will always find ways to justify their own prejudices and bigotry, you and I included. That doesn’t make them right.
on Sun 8 Jan 2012 at 11:15:50 Matari

@ Baruga,

Can you follow this little illustration?

You might know that if one kicks EVEN A LOYAL dog long and hard enough, eventually that dog is going to have a REACTION to its oppression and mistreatment. No?

So then, is this dog just simply walking around on its hind legs (getting all uppity) and looking for a way to “justify” being a prejudiced and bigoted dog?

Baruga, “people will always find ways to justify their own” inability to reason reasonably, you included. That doesn’t make it a good thing!
on Sun 8 Jan 2012 at 11:31:06 Matari

Why do whites hate, demonize, fear, look down on and attempt to CONTROL blacks?

It’s the control aspect that really gets on my last nerve!
No matter what area of life: education, finance, work, entertainment, religion, law – whatever, white people are always trying to CONTROL black people!!
on Sun 8 Jan 2012 at 13:30:03 Lara

Reparations have already been paid: you have the privilege of being American citizens. What more could you ask for?
JT,
You can shove your instruction manual right up your ass.
on Sun 8 Jan 2012 at 14:07:57 JT

@ Lara

Its not an instruction manual. Its a Declaration to the End of Racism. It’s something that you could read every night before bed and grow Lara. Oh you would grow. Granted this would mean putting aside Mein Kampf for a week or two. I know thats asking a lot. But the White Supremacist literature…well, it’s not exactly supported by facts/science/history/truth.
on Sun 8 Jan 2012 at 14:49:19 Truthbetold

” It could be argued that only 10% of them are like that while the rest of them are fucking cowards, mindless sheep whose silence is bought and paid for.”

YYYYYEEEESSSS!!!!!!!!

Oh Aba, I so do love your comebacks!
on Sun 8 Jan 2012 at 14:57:23 Truthbetold

@ Brothawolf
“funny considering how all blacks must take responsibility for a crime against a white person by one or a few blacks.”

I couldn’t have said it better myself.
I’ve always wondered why society never sees all whites for being evil or deviant.
Look at the Penn state sex scandal.
Can it not be argued that pedophilia is a ” white man’s disease?”

Yet, whites maintain their status as top of the food chain when countless examples have proven otherwise that they are deviant by nature.
on Sun 8 Jan 2012 at 16:02:13 Nom De Plume

@Truthbetold:

re: @brothawolf:

“funny considering how all blacks must take responsibility for a crime against a white person by one or a few blacks.”

—-

That’s why sometimes you will see black people give a collective cringe whenever a black person commits a crime. I doubt if whites have the same collective response when whites commit crimes such as high school, university and office building mass murders. They know society at large will not be judging whites as a group nor will it say, ‘Man! Those young white males sure are violent, aren’t they?.
on Sun 8 Jan 2012 at 16:17:03 Teddy

Lara, don’t be stupid, it might be a bit better now, but I have read testimonies of people self identifying as black, that they have never felt accepted as a US-citizen before they left the USA. Pretty worthless reparation thus…
on Sun 8 Jan 2012 at 16:17:52 Truthbetold

@ Nom de Plume

Hear, hear! Look at Columbine vs. Virginia Tech. Noone looks at young white males as violent, do they? Those young men were just individuals who did a bad thing.

The young Asian male at Virginia Tech was not afforded the same treatment. My coworker, who is Japanese, had to quit his job. The racism directed at him was horrible. Never mind that he was not the same ethnicity as the shooter but in the eyes of most whites, all Asians must be alike.
on Sun 8 Jan 2012 at 16:28:07 Truthbetold

@ Teddy

I am a black woman born in another country. Even though we’ve been here for over 20 years, I can tell you that I still feel very much like an outsider.
It’s impossible to count how many times I’ve been approached by whites who want to know where I’m from by my ” exotic” looks and my accent and inflection.

They automatically assume that because my skin is fair and my speech is crisp, I’m different from other blacks.
WTF???
Blacks, mostly, have a very clear view of America. It’s not that we hate this country but we know that it’s not perfect. There’s a lot of damage that was done at our expense.

That’s why when we see a white person yelling about how they LOVE America, we just have to look at them and wonder, Are you right in the head?
It’s as if whites view this country was a perfect place to live. With no flaws.
Must be nice to live in a world made of marshmallow fluff…
on Sun 8 Jan 2012 at 16:35:14 sam

Ok, I put my few words in here too. As for Lara, you are truly funny. “Many black women are more confident than they should be. They are behind on every measure of success, and yet have sky high self esteem. Why?”.

What an earth that means?? They should not have a high self esteem???

And once again, it seems that people here do not understand the System. One of the oldest song sang for the poor white in USA has been the one which says that they are, if nothing else, white, just like the rich, and therefore a bit like them and above every other ethnic group. And the poor whites are happy puppies yappin the same tune because they do not understand, that they are poor and in deep Sht because the rich white folks want them to be in that situation. Then they make the poor white fight against everyother poor and laugh at the stands watching this insanity.

I think it was one of the most powerful and corrupt poltical bosses of New York who once famously said: You can always hire the other half of the poor to kill the other half. They still do that, only more subtle ways.

When the wealth in USA is distributed in a similar way as in any other underdeveloped country, richest 10% having some 80% of all the wealth (if not even more), the 90% fighting for the 20% of wealth, the System works by institutionalized racism as one of the tools to keep the 90% out. This is something which I think some commenters do not get, no matter how or how many times it will be told, shown, proven or demonstrated to them.

Being a white person struggling economically in USA is because OTHER WHITES TOOK YOUR MONEY. Instead of going berserk about blacks, latinos, asians or what ever, you should be going berserk about the real problem. Why there is social injustice, why there is so much poverty, why there is no universal healthcare, why there are millions in USA who can not read, why there are hunderds of thousands who are hungry?

But what do you do? You go and vote the candidates who work for the System, you support them and cheer them on. I have no clue why.
on Sun 8 Jan 2012 at 16:49:17 Happiness

[youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAGTE_RGN4c&w=560&h=315

So, as I was saying about Diane Abbott and everyone jumping on her for her tweets. I don’t think she should quit her job either. I have heard much much worse from many members of parliament who happen to be white saying blatantly racist stuff and nobody says anything about any of them.

The problem we are facing in today’s politically correct society is that you have to have the same opinion as everyone else. Some people DO like to divide and conquer, a bit like these managers at work saying that lower grade staff members should watch other staff members of the same grade and report back, this is one of many divide and conquer tactics used, this does not even necessarily depend solely on colour, but divide and rule is one of many tactics used to pkay one group of people off against the other, in this instance Diane Abbott happens to be talking about some white people who do this…..I am sure this is happening in parlaiment and that is probably why she said it.

Also, she is the first black female MP, what better way to get her kicked out. When MPs stole money from parliament coffers, a lot of them stood their ground and went nowhere and have kept their jobs to this day.

Diane Abboot, do not quit, I agree with you……Some people need to face facts, she is merely stating facts….People are going to get offended but the truth is the truth.
on Sun 8 Jan 2012 at 16:52:48 Truthbetold

@ Sam
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. An explanation for this may be that systematic racism was an excellent way to keep poor, uneducated whites from learning that rich whites do not care about them.

By using blacks, browns, yellows and reds as the punching bag, rich, powerful whites brainwashed the poor.

What a mastermind, no?
Poor, undereducated and racist whites will vote AGAINST their own best interest, as Brothawolf stated. It is done because ” at least I’m not black.”
White solidarity prevails. Even though, they are being used.

I read a diary of a former KKK member who realized that he was being used by the very system that he swore to protect. This is where shame, anger and self loathing begins. This is also where most whites develop that ” fakeness” to live with the guilt.
on Sun 8 Jan 2012 at 16:54:47 Teddy

“Blacks, mostly, have a very clear view of America.”

That’s so true.
on Sun 8 Jan 2012 at 17:18:22 Happiness

@ Lara

“Many black women are more confident than they should be. They are behind on every measure of success, and yet have sky high self esteem. Why?”.

Hmmm, sounds like jealousy to me and this sounds familiar. Why can’t people mind their own business and do their own thing. Whay are you constantly watching to see what other people are doing? Sounds like insecurity…..Secure people ooze confidence because they ‘feel good’ about themselves.

This is a sign of low self esteem when you can’t live and let live and mind your own business about matters that do not concern you directly. It is also the sign of a control freak/tyrant/dictator, telling other people how to be and how to act because you are unhappy or dissatisfied with self.

If you were happy within yourself and your inner light was radiating and shining through, then you wouldn’t even be that concerned about why people feel good about themselves…..Jealousy and envy comes to mind.

Every person sees success differently, again this can be ground right down to “Esteem Issues”.
on Sun 8 Jan 2012 at 17:32:06 Demerera

Lara said:-

JT, You can shove your instruction manual right up your ass

Is this the kind of response to give when someone criticises what you say Lara? Not setting a good example here are you. And there’s me thinking you were a thick skinned tough broad…

LMAO
on Sun 8 Jan 2012 at 18:04:26 Nom De Plume

@sam:

Instead of going berserk about blacks, latinos, asians or what ever, you should be going berserk about the real problem.

—

POC are seen as drains on a society where white tax payers foot the bill. Apparently people forget that black people pay income taxes, too. The other day I saw stats that show what I have always known. More whites receive food stamps than any other group (by number and percentage), yet blacks are painted as the ones who are “gaming the system.” I don’t think income disparity will get the attention it needs until the media puts a white face on it. The black face it has now just makes people want to look the other way or scapegoat those who have fallen on hard times.

@Truthbetold:

‘Hear, hear! Look at Columbine vs. Virginia Tech. Noone looks at young white males as violent, do they? Those young men were just individuals who did a bad thing.”

—

Unfortunately not everyone has the luxury of just being an individual.
on Sun 8 Jan 2012 at 18:31:15 Lara

Truthbetold,
Why do white Americans owe you anything? Your ancestors were never slaves.
on Sun 8 Jan 2012 at 18:38:59 Lara

@Truthbetold
“I can tell you that I still feel very much like an outsider.”

I have never felt like anything other than an American. Who do you think is a better citizen, someone like me or someone like you?
on Sun 8 Jan 2012 at 18:42:04 Herneith

It’s sad to watch someone who seems to crusade against racism fall prey to it himself.

Why do you think he is ‘crusading’ against racism? Did he hurt your white sensibilities and feelings? If I had a violin I’d compose a dirge for you.

I don’t deny that white people do heinous and terrible things sometimes, but that does not mean that all white people have a crack in their soul

Perhaps, but enough of them do, to create deleterious effects on racialized people.

Demonizing whites in the same way that whites have demonized blacks is not okay.

Why not? In fact, I think whites give demons a bad name. There is demons in hell weeping at the wickedness of you white folk!

Abagond, people will always find ways to justify their own prejudices and bigotry, you and I included. That doesn’t make them right.

In other words, this poster can’t come up with a retort to what you posted. The ol ‘Can’t we all get along whingery. I’d take cheese with my whinge!

Reparations have already been paid: you have the privilege of being American citizens. What more could you ask for?

How about some of those Yankee football players in their tights and shirtless!!!!!!

You can shove your instruction manual right up your a…

Congratulations JT! You’ve managed to unnerve this “lara’ person!

I doubt if whites have the same collective response when whites commit crimes such as high school, university and office building mass murders.

They don’t. Many a time I’ve had white people ask me why blacks do this, or why they do that, from the mundane to questions of criminality. However, if a white man is charged with paedophilia, he is just a plain pervert. A black man? Why do blacks behave like that, is what the bolder whites will ask you?

So, as I was saying about Diane Abbott and everyone jumping on her for her tweets. I don’t think she should quit her job either.

I think she should be promoted! What I found especially irksome, were the kerchief heads who came to the white establishment’s defence when they should have been circling the wagons around Abbott. Abbott for Prime Ministress!
on Sun 8 Jan 2012 at 19:00:40 Herneith

I have never felt like anything other than an American. Who do you think is a better citizen, someone like me or someone like you?

Truthbetold is the better citizen. Why? Truthbetold questions the status- quo and doesn’t blindly follow the herd mentality of white supremacy like you and your ilk do.This is why you are morally bankrupt.
on Sun 8 Jan 2012 at 19:27:10 Lara

“I think whites give demons a bad name.”

I’m proud to be part of a dominant warrior race. You guys can have the prize for being nice.
on Sun 8 Jan 2012 at 19:39:23 JT

“Congratulations JT! You’ve managed to unnerve this “lara’ person!”

An accolade perpetually tarnished. Afterall, what is it they say about polishing a turd?

“I’m proud to be part of a dominant warrior race. You guys can have the prize for being nice.”

When you say warrior, you mean an individual that possesses a gun and hides in suburbia? Tough stuff us whites are!
on Sun 8 Jan 2012 at 19:39:36 Teddy

Dominant Warrior race? Which one would that be?
on Sun 8 Jan 2012 at 19:50:07 Truthbetold

@ Herneith

I’ve tried my entire life to grow as a human. It hasn’t been easy. We are not from America, we are multiracial and every member of my family is a different
shade / complexion with many accents.

The hardest part of my growth is traveling abroad to visit my relatives and seeing how they live and are treated in comparison to the United States.
It was shocking for me to go back to London proper and see many, many blacks, Middle Easterns, etc living and thriving despite a bad economy.

The attitudes are just different. There is a lack of ” we’re number one” mentality.
The same for when I visit the St. Ann’s in Jamaica.
There is a sense of unity, pride of culture and helping your neighbor. I remember we were at the countryside and one neighbor came to borrow some yams and potatoes. In return, he gave what he could: fresh tomatoes, herbs from his garden and a chocolate drink called ” Milo”.

Americans, not all of them but enough of them, are so concerned with being on top…they ignored more pressing issues, even if it’s to their demise.

When the Japanese had their earthquake, they had great composure, grace and unity.
I wonder if Americans would do the same…

Not because I question things, doesn’t mean I hate them. Yes, anger does come out but a part of growing as a person, is to challenge EVERYTHING you’ve been taught.

Especially the lies.
on Sun 8 Jan 2012 at 19:56:11 indigoblu

Whites fear blacks because they know blacks, honestly, are no different from them. We’re human, but in order to make themselves “feel” as if they are above and beyond, they have to create this superficial difference through skin color and by mere association via skin color, they try to attach everything negative that a black person has ever done to black people in general—repelling anything remotely positive. Actually, this is so ingrained in their minds concerning black people in general, when they see a black person and that they are doing something positive, it almost hurts their feelings– completely blows their minds.
Similarly they try to attach everything positive that a white person has ever done, to their group—repelling the negative. A white person doing something negative, in the same sense, blows their minds…most of them “don’t talk about it”. Life doesn’t work that way, and people who use common sense can see right through it.
on Sun 8 Jan 2012 at 19:58:31 Demerera

@Lara

I’m proud to be part of a dominant warrior race./i>

Its all very well being a part of something Lara but it dont mean jack shi*t if you aren’t a contributor – judging from your posts on here its incomprehensible that you could be …..

You guys can have the prize for being nice

Full of contradictictions aint ya
on Sun 8 Jan 2012 at 20:06:38 Truthbetold

@ Indigoblu
I love the statement, ” it almost hurts their feelings…”
Yes. That’s why they try to find a way to discredit you…
on Sun 8 Jan 2012 at 20:10:03 Nom De Plume

@Teddy:

‘I have read testimonies of people self identifying as black, that they have never felt accepted as a US-citizen before they left the USA.”

—

I have read similar accounts. It reminds me of something called the ‘Perpetual Foreigner’ syndrome, if I remember correctly. I have witnessed U.S.-born Asian Americans being asked where they’re from. When they answer (without a foreign accent) that they were born in *insert state*, they are often asked the follow-up question, ‘Yeah, but where are you FROM?’ as if the Asian American didn’t understand the question the first time it was asked. It’s the ‘You don’t look like me so you can’t possibly be a real American’ way of seeing people.
on Sun 8 Jan 2012 at 20:11:23 Truthbetold

Has anyone ever read Brainwashed, by Tom Burrell?
I first time I read that book, I felt as if my nerves became raw.
Every bone in my body hurt. I cried. Openly.

It gave me a greater insight as to who we are, as blacks in America.
I had to read it 3 times to let it sink in.
I’m still trying to process it because it hurts.
on Sun 8 Jan 2012 at 20:15:28 indigoblu

@Truthbetold
Agreed.

I haven’t read it, but now that you are mentioning it, I’m interested in reading it. I’ve been longing to read a good book that was not school related, so I’m going to check it out. Thanks.
on Sun 8 Jan 2012 at 20:19:45 indigoblu

Now that I just “googled” that book, and saw the cover, I realized I wanted to read that book over 2 year ago and never got around to it.
on Sun 8 Jan 2012 at 20:20:34 Truthbetold

@ indigoblu,
You are welcome. Be prepared to be hurt by this honest book. I’ve had sleepless nights just thinking about it.
on Sun 8 Jan 2012 at 20:24:23 Nom De Plume

@truthbetold:

‘When the Japanese had their earthquake, they had great composure, grace and unity. I wonder if Americans would do the same…”

—

Perhaps. For a while at least. When 911 happened, I saw people of different ethnicities, ages, faiths and socio-economic positions crying, praying and hugging each other while proclaiming, ‘We are ALL Americans!!!’ When the dust settled, however, things went back to ‘business as usual.’
on Sun 8 Jan 2012 at 20:27:59 Truthbetold

LOL!!! Perhaps, you are right about that one.
on Sun 8 Jan 2012 at 20:54:38 Herneith

I’m proud to be part of a dominant warrior race. You guys can have the prize for being nice.

If you want ‘prizes’ go to Bingo. Warrior race my bunghole.

An accolade perpetually tarnished. Afterall, what is it they say about polishing a turd?

‘A turd by any other name is just a turd’.

Dominant Warrior race? Which one would that be?
on Sun 8 Jan 2012 at 20:57:12 darqbeauty

DEAD @ Herneith!!

I swear I sometimes feel like certain people are Elois and others are Morlocks.
on Sun 8 Jan 2012 at 21:16:49 Lara

@JT
“When you say warrior, you mean an individual that possesses a gun and hides in suburbia? Tough stuff us whites are!”

There is nothing of value in their neighborhoods. They don’t set up nice stores or restaurants. If there was something we wanted, we’d be there, they wouldn’t be able to stop us.
on Sun 8 Jan 2012 at 21:17:33 darqbeauty

Lara, go back to Trollsylvania.
on Sun 8 Jan 2012 at 21:18:34 Lara

White people create culture, and beautiful cities and fun. They just show up for it.
on Sun 8 Jan 2012 at 22:23:38 Herneith

@Darqbeauty, perhaps this will do?
on Sun 8 Jan 2012 at 22:26:38 JT

“Lara, go back to Trollsylvania.”

Amen. I was about to respond to her preposterous lies once more and then i read your post. Thanks darqbeauty. =D
on Sun 8 Jan 2012 at 22:35:34 sam

@lara: “I’m proud to be part of a dominant warrior race”

For starters, in which wars you have been fighting? What type of military training you have received? How about medals? Two, three purple hearts? Medal of Honor?? You would not call yourself a warrior just for fun, would you?

See, warriors go to wars. That is why they are called warriors. They war. Usually they are called soldiers, mercenaries etc. Sometimes they are known as terrorists or guerillas etc. But warriors do not sit at home front of their computers typing funny text or babble about race.

Warriors do not talk. They do very nasty and bad things. They maim, murder, kill, destroy, torture, beat, rape other humanbeings. War is like that. It is very, very dirty, nasty and dangerous. It is not fun at all. That is why people like you hire someone else to go to war. And that is why people like you are not, in any sense, warriors. Like Rober the Bruce very famously put it in AD 1314 in Bannockburn: Let us do or die.
on Mon 9 Jan 2012 at 00:05:13 brothawolf

I’m proud to be part of a dominant warrior race.

If you were proud, you wouldn’t be putting down black women like you’ve been doing. You wouldn’t be proclaiming that your culture is all that and a bag of chips while putting down other cultures especially those of African descent.

Someone broke you, and now you’re showing everyone how low your self-esteem is. I don’t blame you, if I were you and thought the way you do, I’d have low self-esteem too lol.
on Mon 9 Jan 2012 at 00:08:10 brothawolf

Also Lara, for a member of a warrior race, you sure are emotionally and intellectually fragile.
on Mon 9 Jan 2012 at 01:56:27 Matari

@Brothawolf

“Someone broke you, and now you’re showing everyone how low your self-esteem is. I don’t blame you, if I were you and thought the way you do, I’d have low self-esteem too lol.”

***********************
: ))) Well bruh, WHITENESS breaks a lot of white people.
Lillian Smith certainly thought so!

I also think that it’s “whiteness” at the root of their being broken and why many of them act the same way some of the ones that come here behave. They just can’t help being the way they are. They went to far into that whiteness “cloud” and now they can’t escape. Only a lucky few can navigate themselves out of its grasp, and fewer still can remain/stay free from its clutches – e.g. Jas0n & Zek.

“Intellectually fragile?”

You’re being very kind & super-generous. lol
on Mon 9 Jan 2012 at 06:31:28 brothawolf

LOL I could say some other words, but I didn’t want to disrespect Abagond’s blog.
on Mon 9 Jan 2012 at 12:41:51 Randy

Abagond:

If we assume you are right then we would have to conclude that whites are either not terribly bright (they do not understand how and why blacks got to America) or they are (and this could be true, unfortunately) even more breathtakingly delusional and heartless than I suspected.

Group actions considered by our modern morality to constitute “atrocities” have occurred among nearly all peoples. Rarely do feelings of guilt appear to persist among the descendents. In the case of slavery in America, most white folks aren’t even related to the original slaveholders.

“Black” people in southern Africa arrived as part of massive Bantu migrations which displaced Khoisan, pygmy, and other groups nearly to the point of extinction. Do you know any black Africans who feel continued guilt over this?
on Mon 9 Jan 2012 at 13:42:38 abagond

@ Randy

If whites deep down truly believe those sorts of rationalizations then how do you account for the hatred and demonization of blacks when blacks have done nothing wrong to whites, certainly not on the scale of what whites have done to blacks?
on Mon 9 Jan 2012 at 13:54:21 Satanforce

I have not had many opportunities to experience the demonisation by Euro-Americans that so many of you speak of, but the ones that I experienced, actually bring me to different conclusions than that Abagond has arrived at. I will explain how I arrived at a different conclusion by first using an incident of racism that I had experienced while I was in Florida a year and a half ago to do an important medical procedure. In another comment, I will then show that the demonisation of Blacks has come about as result of Western civilization adopting a Metaphysics and Epistemology of Anal and Oral Sex.

During the medical examination that is required prior to surgery, I was examined by a young white male doctor (I believe of Irish-Catholic/Italian extraction) who appeared to be doing his internship. The gentleman, having examined me shirtless, and having read the form I had previously filled out, cracked a smug smirk, and asked in a most smug tone of voice “How’d you get those?”, referring to the scars from the gunshot, stab and surgical wounds on my upper body. I proceeded to answer that they were a result of robbery attempts. The gentleman then asked where I lived. I replied that I lived in the nation’s capital, to which he then responded “Isn’t that the bad place?” I then calmly explained that Kingston is home to almost half the population, thus making his statement a gross over-generalisation. He then smiled meekly and then proceeded to continue the examination , rather meekly.

The above anecdote gives us main points that will prove invaluable to understanding why whites engage in “demonisation.”

(1) Black men do not get shot, they get themselves shot
(2) Bad things do not happen to good people
(3) In lieu of exposure to Black people, bad things happen to black people because they are bad.
(4) Televised images are an excellent reflection of reality

These points can be attributed to:

Cultural Narcissism (1)

Narcissism , in this sense does not mean egoism or selfishness. Instead think back to Narcissus entranced by his reflection. He could not tell his true self from his false. And that is what modern culture leads to. An ongoing economic crisis, combined with the constant threat of terrorism in a world teetering on the brink of environmental collapse encourages survival – not living. Survival means you withdraw into a “minimal self”, there is no room for empathy, understanding or commitment. The focus on reality TV and hook up sex over relationships I believe are a symptom of this in the Euro-American community. They realise that a good portion of their selves is missing, causing them to use

Narcissistic Defenses

Splitting becomes necessary reducing the world to good/evil. Projection means that you place your own insecurities onto a scapegoat (Black rape stats). And withdrawal means that you only interact with those of your own kind, thus withdrawing into enclaves (White Flight). None of these defenses, however, are able to withstand Narcissistic Injury, which tends t come about during times like these.

I will hae to elaborate at another time why these are not exclusive to Euro-Americans, as well as how we have become dominated and subjugated by a Philosophy of Buttsecks.
on Mon 9 Jan 2012 at 14:22:12 Satanforce

The Use of Stereotypes

White people feel that they are under siege, not merely due to external factors, but due to those within their own race that seek to create docile consumers by dividing them into different demographics so that they may be better exploited (this is also obviously the case for Blacks and other races). This used to be a distinct and real course of study up to the 1920s, (2) but is no longer made overtly known to marketing students. Nowadays, the stigmatisation of Blacks occurs as a result of confirmation bias (3)

If you were a white person would be inclined to watch a video called “Shit White girls say to Black Girls ?” You would not even bother inputting that into your Google search, instead looking at the latest Kardashian, or whatever would reinforce your beliefs.

It takes disasters, economic crises, total wars and other upheavals to create the type of existential crises to force people out of their long held beliefs. Perhaps, that may be the one good thing to come out of the recent economic troubles.

Sorry for being so long winded

(1) The Minimal Self – Christopher Lasch
(2) Propaganda – Edward Bernays
(3) Public Opinion – Walter Lippmann
on Mon 9 Jan 2012 at 15:04:56 cemmcs

“Here was I, the white man with his gun, standing in front of the unarmed native crowd – seemingly the leading actor of the piece; but in reality I was only an absurd puppet pushed to and fro by the will of those yellow faces behind. I perceived in this moment that when the white man turns tyrant it is his own freedom that he destroys. He becomes a sort of hollow, posing dummy, the conventionalized figure of a sahib. For it is the condition of his rule that he shall spend his life in trying to impress the “natives,” and so in every crisis he has got to do what the “natives” expect of him. He wears a mask, and his face grows to fit it. I had got to shoot the elephant. I had committed myself to doing it when I sent for the rifle. A sahib has got to act like a sahib; he has got to appear resolute, to know his own mind and do definite things. To come all that way, rifle in hand, with two thousand people marching at my heels, and then to trail feebly away, having done nothing – no, that was impossible. The crowd would laugh at me. And my whole life, every white man’s life in the East, was one long struggle not to be laughed at.”

George Orwell, “Shooting An Elephant”
on Mon 9 Jan 2012 at 15:24:31 Randy

abagond:

If whites deep down truly believe those sorts of rationalizations then how do you account for the hatred and demonization of blacks when blacks have done nothing wrong to whites, certainly not on the scale of what whites have done to blacks?

At the risk of complete oversimplification, I’ll just offer one primary reason why people in my majority-white hometown feared black folks: crime.

There was a far greater likelihood of becoming the victim of theft or assault if you went into a black neighborhood vs. a white one. My observation was that “white flight” had nothing to do with an anti-preference for melanin, but rather was a desire to escape crime and related social pathologies.

Also, one could see that neighborhoods which had previously received greater numbers of black residents had increasing levels of litter, unresolved home maintenance issues, and other indicators of community disorder.

I recall driving in the car with my father who would point out things like, “I remember when this neighborhood used to be all northern Italians. We were dirt poor but everyone kept their place tidy. Just look at how these houses are falling apart now.”

I suppose that you could say these feelings therefore originated from personal experience and observation, and not due to any grand plan to create group antipathy towards black people.
on Mon 9 Jan 2012 at 15:34:17 sam

@randy: And what you think caused all that “terrifying” crime and community disorder? Race? Color of the skin?

You are smart guy. You can figure this one out if you really want. Question is Do you really want? I bet you do not. That would be really scary indeed.
on Mon 9 Jan 2012 at 15:36:05 Lara

What do you think caused the crime, Sam?
on Mon 9 Jan 2012 at 15:38:34 Lara

Every time I go into my local Home Depot, there are a lot of black people in there. Yet, black neighborhoods still look run down. What’s that all about?
on Mon 9 Jan 2012 at 15:39:51 Lara

“unresolved home maintenance issues”

Yes. Clear plastic is only a temporary fix for a broken window, not a permanent one.
on Mon 9 Jan 2012 at 15:41:44 abagond

Wow, reading this I would think the white Americans here have no idea what a slumlord is. Or what not having money is like.
on Mon 9 Jan 2012 at 15:59:34 abagond

@ Randy

” My observation was that “white flight” had nothing to do with an anti-preference for melanin, but rather was a desire to escape crime and related social pathologies.”

My observation, having lived in places subjected to white flight, is that it is a self-serving racist lie that white people like to tell themselves. It does not, for example, account for why extremely few whites move to black middle-class neighbourhoods where crime is low. Or even why, in Manhattan, they live in neighbourhoods with markedly higher crime rates than the middle of Harlem.

In the early 1980s Chinatown was the murder capital of Manhattan. Yet I know people who had no trouble going there who would shake like a leaf if they had to go to Harlem. Their fear was grounded in racism, not fact.
on Mon 9 Jan 2012 at 16:09:27 Randy

sam:

@randy: And what you think caused all that “terrifying” crime and community disorder? Race? Color of the skin?

abagond

Wow, reading this I would think the white Americans here have no idea what a slumlord is. Or what not having money is like.

The immediate question was about how white folks came to feel a certain way about black folks.

I’d offer that proletarian people (aka “regular folks”) of all nationalities tend deal with the situations at hand without much concern for the grand sweeps of history which may have engendered them. That tends to be a luxury of the introspective bourgeoisie. The poor are busy scratching out a living.

In the case I described, people simply wanted safe neighborhoods for their children. Nobody cared “why”.

Even if you knew “why”, that would make little difference, as you’re not going to solve any grand societal issues being the peon that you are. You simply move from places where people are more likely to assault each other to places where they aren’t.
on Mon 9 Jan 2012 at 16:24:31 V-4

On one hand I can understand to some extent the plight of the poor, on the other I remember a black inspirational speaker who came to my high school back in the day.

He made a decent speech about how any body can succeed if they put their mind to it etc….one thing that stuck out to me though was how he mentioned he was so poor that his house had a huge hole in the floor in one of the rooms that they had to walk around and it was there for years.

But unless someone is basically handicapped in some way there really is no legitimate excuse for that. Doesn’t cost much at the end of the day to buy some nails, a hammer and some wood to cover up a hole.
on Mon 9 Jan 2012 at 17:06:30 Truthbetold

If I may interject…
Most whites have kept up the facade, the lie of perfection for so long, they no longer know what it is like to live without it.
If I may be frank…that’s why I longer have conversations of meaning with whites. The truth, no matter how delicately put, seems to offend and torture them.

The fear you speak of, going into a black neighborhood, albeit a middle class one, is rooted in the racist belief that blacks are prone to violence and will attack ANYONE for no reason.

Satanforce said the whites feel that they are under siege.
Why is that?
Could it be that centuries of crime, rape, robbery, lies, falseness and deceit have home home to roost?

Projection is a big part of it. We tend to see the worst in ourselves and put them on to others.

@ V-4
wood, a hammer, nails and glue costs money. Not everyone has that luxury when the rent/mortgage, bills, food, gas is due.

@ Randy
Racism defies fact. It, by definition, defies logic. When people start coming up with reasons why they feel the way they do, backed by stats and science, they only serve to fulfill that lie.
And it becomes a never ending cycle.
on Mon 9 Jan 2012 at 17:20:38 Matari

“If I may be frank…that’s why I longer have conversations of meaning with whites. The truth, no matter how delicately put, seems to offend and torture them.”

*******************************

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

…and EXCLAMATION POINT!

**it’s MOSTLY a gigantic waste of time and energy**

THEY can’t see truth, don’t want to see truth, and really don’t want to believe truth!
on Mon 9 Jan 2012 at 17:48:44 Nom De Plume

@V-4:

‘….one thing that stuck out to me though was how he mentioned he was so poor that his house had a huge hole in the floor in one of the rooms that they had to walk around and it was there for years.”

“But unless someone is basically handicapped in some way there really is no legitimate excuse for that. Doesn’t cost much at the end of the day to buy some nails, a hammer and some wood to cover up a hole.”

—

I guess this is supposed to be an example of how the poor don’t help themselves, or perhaps how they’re just too dumb or lazy to help themselves? I’m thinking that if I had a “huge” hole in my floor, simply nailing a board over it would not make it safe to walk on. I would try to cover it but I would still walk around it (especially if I was unable to repair it properly). Also, do we know if the hole was in an upstairs room? As for the length of time the hole was there, could it be that the family was just too poor to hire a professional contractor to do the work?

I wasn’t there to hear what you heard, but this sounds like another example of the “Pull yourselves up by your bootstraps” way of thinking.. Your comment also ties in wonderfully with the title of this post, “Why do whites hate, demonize, fear and LOOK DOWN ON blacks? Not being facetious here, but thanks. I doubt if I could have summarized it better.
on Mon 9 Jan 2012 at 18:04:32 Lara

“The fear you speak of, going into a black neighborhood, albeit a middle class one, is rooted in the racist belief that blacks are prone to violence and will attack ANYONE for no reason.”

My brother, his girlfriend and my parents were riding the NY subway two weeks ago. A gang of blacks got on and approached a lone black man. Within minutes they were all punching him. One pulled out a knife and slashed this man’s face. My mom was really shaken up by it, she’d never seen an unprovoked attack like that. I guess she is just sheltered.
on Mon 9 Jan 2012 at 18:05:42 Lara

“THEY can’t see truth, don’t want to see truth, and really don’t want to believe truth!”

Nope, we just don’t agree with you.
on Mon 9 Jan 2012 at 18:07:59 Lara

Blacks have had the upper hand with whites for about 60 years now, in the United States. All they’ve had to do is throw a temper tantrum and they have gotten their way. Things are starting to change, whites are no longer so willing to give in to you.
on Mon 9 Jan 2012 at 18:09:52 Lara

You people can’t figure out how to fix a hole in the floor? No wonder Detroit is on the verge of collapse.
on Mon 9 Jan 2012 at 21:17:43 Dave Lister

I ended up on this website due to a link from a website I was on to another article here.

What I see in the article and most of the comments here is exactly the same thing that whites are being accused of doing. On the one hand people want to be treated as individuals, and on the other they want to be treated as a group. On the one hand they want to be accepted for who they are, and on the other they want an apology or more for what someone elses ancestors did to their ancestors. All that ends up happening is a circular motion of distrust and hate that keeps the problem from ever being solved. This can be seen all over the planet, between and inside every possible grouping of humans, from race to religion to economic category. Most of history is represented by one group taking from another simply because they could. Peaceful tolerant places historically never lasted long due to this – they were wiped out/taken over.

My personal view on this topic is that the title is trivially silly. I don’t know any white people personally who demonize, fear, or who look down on blacks, but I know they exist. I did know people of the older generations who did but for the most part this was based on complete ignorance – they lived in an area where there were simply not many people at all much less a minority. Blacks were simply the “Other”. My grandfather who made racist statements infrequently also loved to watch Mohammed Ali box. A cousin of my parents who married a black man was treated hostilely by my grandparents generation (some of them) but NOT by their children. With rise of modern media, typical responses have been either becoming much more tolerant, or much more intolerant. I see the world for the most part getting better, but where it is not, becoming much more easy to identify and point out.

For me, I grew up without a single minority family in the area except for Native Americans who tended to be isolated on the reservations. I never knew any blacks until coming to LA for college, nor did I know much from television etc. except for the civil rights movement which I saw as completely justified given what I saw on TV. I really didn’t and don’t to this day know much about the cultures of say the deep south or the upper mid-west as I’ve never lived in those places.

My experiences on moving to LA varied. I’ve never experienced crime from blacks, although I have from white teenagers. The blacks in my college were quite varied in politics and outlook. I do remember being shocked when I was training as a waiter for a part time job (all the jobs were held by students) under a black captain being called an “nword’s nword” by some of the other black and white students working there. Most of what I (think I) know of blacks unfortunately comes from what I will call advertising – music, news, other media – not from personal experience. I doubt that the advertising is accurate, but the hip-hop music and its culture of violence disturb me. I do love Jazz, Swing, and early R&B.

Comments such as I see here reinforce in me a tendency when In the presence of a black person I don’t know to not say anything rather than say something out of ignorance they personally may decide is racist. Some here have apparently decided that not saying anything is also racist. Telling someone they are racist for such things is not helpful, either to them or you if the desire is to actually to become acquainted. If your desire is to simply reinforce an attitude in the minds of these people you are probably on the right track. I also read that in surveys that blacks are perhaps the least likely group to support gay rights, which intensely puzzles me.

Bottom line, I try very hard to treat people as individuals, and if you come from someplace unfamiliar, even within the United States, I’m likely to ask many questions about what it’s like etc.would I like to visit or live there. If I make a mistake jumping on it as racist is almost a guarantee that future interaction will be held to a minimum if only to ensure that such a mistake does not get repeated. Much more productive would be “why do you think that?” Being a racist, and obviously there are a few black racists posting here, is not a solution to being treated badly – and I doubt that anyone here, black or white, has any “power” myself included.
on Mon 9 Jan 2012 at 22:54:47 brothawolf

*Waits for Lara to say something that will get her banned so the rest of us won’t have to put up with her/him.*

From most of these comments from Randy, Lara, and anyone else making similar statements about white flight, I find it tiresome but nonetheless insulting that one would think that black neighborhoods because of the association with black communities and destruction.

In the first place crime can happen anywhere at anytime by anyone. Black communities are not the number one places for crime to happen. Crime can occur in white communities, middle class and upper class communities. The problem is that cops are always in poor black communities for the stereotype that those places are cesspools for crime. Politicians and the news always – ALWAYS – make it seem like anyplace where black people are will be destroyed. But people like Lara doesn’t have the moral capacity to comprehend how that can be depressing because you know, black people are screwed up by nature because a racist white person told me so.

Why not try asking how and why crime happens instead of just assuming it has to do with culture or skin color? Why not do some genuine research instead of jumping headfirst into some myths and stereotypes like a crackhead jumping into an empty swimming pool? Why not take into account that your kind of mentality is harmful to others and yourselves instead of holding on to them as if you were Linus refusing to let go of your security blanket?

*Shakes his damn head.*
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 00:32:28 emily valier

Why do whites hate, demonize, fear and look down on blacks?

Maybe they stumble upon the insane rants of the many black commenters here, including Abagond himself.

This stuff makes stormfront look tame.
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 00:36:48 JT

Amen Brothawolf. One need look no further than Abagonds comments’ section for examples of the narcissm, dichotomous thinking, and moral blindness he refers to.

Worse. They think they can speak for the experience of hate and discrimination that people of colour experience from the Whites and yet they are CLEARLY so far removed from the experience themselves. Really goes to show that a little bit of intelligence is a dangerous thing. SMH.

JT
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 00:43:26 Herneith

Maybe they stumble upon the insane rants of the many black commenters here, including Abagond himself.

Maybe they were already racist and just need something to use as an excuse for their racism. No-one can make you ‘racist’. That’s a decision you come to. It is like saying to the victim of a drunk driver that they shouldn’t have been crossing on a red light when they were knocked down.

This stuff makes stormfront look tame.

I see you have diverse interests, either you frequent stormfront or you don’t; if you do, you are probably one of their minions. If you don’t, you do not know what the hell you are talking/writing about.
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 00:43:59 Truthbetold

@ Brothawolf
I was in a mainly white town of Brookfield, WI on assignment 2 years ago.
Cops broke down the door of a mansion due to the fact that the owner was making crystal meth in his basement!

When this erupted, many people were, “shocked” and ” dumfounded” .
One person said, ” Hm. That’s unusual. You would think it would happen in Milwaukee.” Milwaukee is a segregrated town with blacks on one side, poor whites on the other.

Trying to understand racism will put you in Bellvue Mental Hospital.
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 01:10:07 emily valier

@Hernieth

I’m going to tap that reply right back at you and say that the beyond belief racism that is prevalent here and on many mainstream black websites just shows that African-Americans are just as racist (actually worse) than Whites are. There’s no self-censorship at all.

Black people who don’t remotely understand Whites are here spewing the worst vitriol imaginable and getting a pat on the back for it. Why in the heck should White people do you any favors at all, or treat you humanely when you are not willing to do the same?

You want equality right? Of course, we all do. You are also entitled to be called out and shamed for being a delusional nest of bigots too. I will say it’s more than a little telling how incredulous and fragile some of the black bigots are when someone with a contrary opinion picks them apart.

I have to wonder-are these the posts of the bigoted black liberal bourgeoisie or just a bunch of adroit White trolls doing an excellent job of defaming said black liberals?

Judging at the anti-White, Asian and Latino bile that passes for humor on Black pop culture websites, it’s probably the former.

On a positive note, it appears that the White left is slowly waking up to the hateful, racist black people they’ve been making excuses for all these years
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 01:15:40 emily valier

This stuff makes stormfront look tame.

I see you have diverse interests, either you frequent stormfront or you don’t; if you do, you are probably one of their minions. If you don’t, you do not know what the hell you are talking/writing about.

Actually Stormfront is monitored by SLPC, ADL, a whole slew of anti-racist organizations (some of them with questionable affiliations of their own) and thousands of curious minorities. It’s got one of the largest “lurker” populations on the internet bar none and googling up “stormfront” will pull up several threads on black pop culture web forums from posters who read threads there. The kicker on those black pop culture web forums? Many, many of those same posters whining about what’s said there (which actually has a stricter moderation policy than good Mr. Abagond) have NO problem saying the vilest things about White people.

Hypocrisy, thy name is the African-American mainstream. Oh, that neanderthal/honkey and his racism….
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 01:19:14 emily valier

Last post before I head to the gym:

Why I’m thankful for Black bigots like the folks at Mr. Abagond’s comments section.

You’re more delusional and even LESS intelligent than the average Stormfront or VNN poster so it’s clear you’ll never be a threat to the long term survival of the United States or Western civilization as a whole;-)
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 01:19:31 abagond

@ Emily:

Please quote something I said and then tell us why it is racist.
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 01:24:13 Dave Lister

I don’t know about stormfront, but this is as racist a place as I’ve seen in the past 20 years. I see lots of complaining, and a lot of Catch-22 type “logic”. If that’s really all that this blog has to offer, then it is part of the problem and in no way part of any solution. The host doesn’t understand my point of view any better than I apparently understand his, yet he feels free to generalize and stereotype, all the while complaining that others do that to him. This is the type of place that rather than leading to some kind of consensus, can lead only to further division and hostility. Is that REALLY what the host wants?
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 01:44:21 Emilysnewfan

abagond
@ Emily:

“Please quote something I said and then tell us why it is racist.”

Abagond, look at your posts for a minute with an objective eye. You’re totally crazy and definitely racist. Is she/he actually going to get a useful reply from you?

Best just to ignore you and see if anything useful can come from interaction with the other racist black people.
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 01:56:01 Dave Lister

“It is white people who have a deep crack in their souls.”
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 02:00:04 Randy

Abagond said:

My observation, having lived in places subjected to white flight, is that it is a self-serving racist lie that white people like to tell themselves. It does not, for example, account for why extremely few whites move to black middle-class neighbourhoods where crime is low. Or even why, in Manhattan, they live in neighbourhoods with markedly higher crime rates than the middle of Harlem.

1. Do you think that those white folks would have been welcomed by the existing residents of middle of Harlem?

2. People tend to naturally aggregate with their in-group. Where I grew up Italians, Irish, Germans, and Poles tended to live apart from each other.

Further, Northern Italians, Southern Italians, and Sicilians would each cluster separately. Is that “racism” too?
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 02:12:58 Herneith

Emily, are you ‘Lara’s’ cousin or sister?
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 02:27:26 JT

Lara/Emily/Ashley Todd.

Same $hit, different pile.

Check out the link if you don’t remember the lovely Ashley Todd. Lara, Ashley and Emily could be BFFs I’m sure.

http://exiledonline.com/the-daily-inquisition-ashley-todd/
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 02:30:54 Matari

Yawn …

For the endless numbers of clueless WHITE folks:

See if you can wrap your little clueless minds around this: – again -

African Americans cannot be called “racists,” because they do not have the ability to deny anyone “the dignity, opportunities, freedoms, and rewards that this nation offers white Americans”

When, or if, black people begin chaining, shipping, enslaving, selling, lynching, raping, oppressing, exploiting, shooting, jailing, whipping, maiming, torturing, evangelizing, robbing, stereotyping, bullying, bombing, segregating, building highways and thruways to dislocate businesses, communities and neighborhoods; creating SUN-DOWN towns, experimenting on, discriminating against, prohibiting, murdering, holding back/controlling in every imaginable way while HATING WHITE PEOPLE en mass via de jure and de facto racism for HUNDREDS of years, then and only then can calling black people racists make sense.

Unless America’s historical and traditional scripts are flipped, the ONLY people who can possibly ever qualify to be racists, and “fight their (“natural”) tendency toward it,” are WHITE people.

Otherwise, the word “racist” – “makes NO SENSE!”
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 02:31:22 Herneith

Hahahaha!!!
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 02:36:07 Dave Lister

You apparently do not understand the word “racist” then Matari, as most white people have neither done nor have any power to do what you describe (as if you experienced yourself).

By the way, I detect a mental aberration in your post which indicates that yes, you would do all of those things you describer were you only able.

Yawn indeed.
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 02:54:45 JT

Dave,

Today, race is a discredited construct. It was not always the case.

It was devised by white people in the 20th and 19th centuries to forward ideas of colour based hierarchies.

Delineating the races of caucasians and blacks meant that politicians, diplomats, etc. would have an implicit excuse to withhold civil rights from people of colour. People of colour were excusably slaves if they were biologically/mentally inferior. Minstrel shows could only be hillarious if the subjects of them were already dehumanized. Jim Crowe could prevent contamination of inferior genetics. ETC. ETC. ETC.

Thus, a system was devised and perpetuated by WHITES in interest of WHITES, to the expense and oppression of PEOPLE OF COLOUR, a system very much still in the works.

If you took a single course in sociology/anthropology/history you would know that Blacks cannot be racist. They can be bigoted, prejudiced, hateful etc. but they cannot be racist. Because they are not able to nor have they ever been able to withhold rights from whites in a SYSTEMIC fashion as whites have been and continue to do today.

This is all coming from a white individual.

JT
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 03:07:29 Dave Lister

Rubbish. Race was hardly devised by white people, nor has the oppression of others on such a classification been limited to whites. Example, Japan over Korea and China. The definition of “racism” you use is meaningless in any context except as history. Simply being unable to exercise that power rather than unable AND unwilling does not make one not a racist – it makes one a racist without success to date. And yes, I have had plenty of college courses on such topics, but apparently not taught with the “color” you accept as truth.

Without whites willing to buck such systems in America blacks would still be in slavery and Obama would never have become President.
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 03:24:23 Matari

“This is all coming from a white individual. ”

**************************************

I can’t help but LOL at THAT, because – as we all know, if an utterance comes from a white person, as opposed to a black person, the testimony is then seen as legitimate, “objective,” even-handed and carries much more clout and weight!

Yup, we’ve come a long way, but not nearly as far as some people think.

Black people, by and large, are NOT credible to “white” people which is part and parcel of what Abagond is persistently, doggedly always saying – in hundreds of various ways!!!!!

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why (in part) what Mr. Lister just wrote:

“most white people have neither done nor have any power to do what you describe,”

is an utterly amazing – LIE.
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 03:25:59 JT

“Example Japan, Korean, China”

Nice example.

Nationality does not equal race.

Ethnicity does not equal race.

Cultural group does not equal race.

Thus, Japanese, Korean, and Chinese would not be considered different races but of the same race. To be precise, the Malayan race. According to Blumenbach.

Let’s turn towards a neutral source. Wikipedia:

“The European concept of “race” arose in the 17th century at the time of the scientific revolution and the age of European imperialism and colonization.[26][27] As Europeans encountered people from different parts of the world, they speculated about the physical, social, and cultural differences among various human groups. During the Atlantic slave trade, human groups were categorized in order to justify the subordination of African slaves.[28]”

“In the United States, Thomas Jefferson saw Africans as inferior to Whites in intellect, and embued with unnatural sexual appetites, but sawNative Americans as equals to whites.[37]”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(classification_of_humans)

Now please tell me that race hasn’t been used to the advantage of white people at largely the expense of people of colour. Please tell me that so i know that i am completely wasting my time talking to you in the first place which every protein in my body already tells me as much.
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 03:40:48 brothawolf

Where are these “people” coming from???

If there’s anything to be understood about racism is that it deals mostly with myths and lies and never truths. The truth is the enemy to the faith that white people are superior based solely on white skin and numerous myths about them.

Since this topic talks about, as the title suggests, why whites hate, fear, demonize, or look down on blacks, it talks about the experiences coming from blacks. It’s based on loads of research on the subject. And the proof constantly appears from different people who troll in here proving the topic’s three main points: narcissism, dichotomous thinking, and moral blindness.

The trolls that have been appearing in here rant in some way or another about how whites did great things and without them black people would be lost, or left to rot in Africa. They believe that blacks by nature are dumb, lazy, dysfunctional, violent, and oversexed. And, they don’t care to hear our pain, frustrations, or point of view (unless it agrees with them).

It’s futile to talk with them from a different point of view. They are too screwed up to give another person’s POV a chance, yet, they log into blogs like this for what? To disturb forums. To grab attention, and to spew their predictable bullshit.

And that is the truth. They can’t stand the truth. They devalue truth. They could care less about how “we” feel. They don’t care if we are suffering. In fact some of them want us to feel low, to be ashamed of who we are. At the same time they want us to worry about them. They want us to worship them. They want us to shut up and be happy while we love and respect them UNCONDITIONALLY.

These trolls here are mentally challenged, psychologically broken, spiritually absent, morally deprived, overprivileged, warped human beings with self-esteem issues and too much idle time on their hands.
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 03:42:39 JT

@ Matari

I realize that that is the truth of the matter (about the way in which the legal system/media/society put weight behind what white people say and discredit what people of color say). It was a poor choice of words.

If i were to reword it, i would say that I don’t believe this conversation is being had along lines of color/non-color but rather along the lines of empathy, acceptance, truth, and justice. Those that are empathetic, accepting and honest realize how loudly the bells of truth toll whenever people of color speak about their histories and experiences, discrimination and perseverance.

Those that are not empathetic, honest, and accepting stop reading after the first words about systemic oppression are written. Or they read but they take in zilch of what is SAID. They go on to verbal diarrhea what they were told from their trailer trash family about these matters.

I believe that I respect and listen. Therefore I believe that I belong in the former group. I apologize for the ignorance from that post.
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 04:14:04 Dave Lister

Unfortunately, JT, the Japanese have historically considered THEMSELVES to be of a different and better race than the Chinese or Koreans, a prejudice which still exists today. It doesn’t really matter that YOU consider them to be of the same race, the excuse for their behavior was exactly the same.

Here in this group I see people like the host who consider, based on their race, that they are “better” than other groups. I see still others who would obviously like nothing better than to engage in such behavior given the ability and opportunity. I notice you not very cleverly ignored where the very same Wikipedia article goes on to explore the concept among other races, as an example “However, the concept of human races is generally accepted in some other regions of the world, such as Asia and Eastern Europe”. The fact is that “race” is not a only a white concept, but is embedded in such things as the Hispanic “La Raza” name. The article you quote also says “Groups of humans have probably always distinguished themselves from other groups.”

It would be stupid to say that some white people historically haven’t used such a classification to derive advantage from other peoples It would be equally stupid to say that no other race has done this, or that a larger number of whites haven’t fought just such an advantage in modern times.

The idea of collective racial guilt is an example of someone trying to achieve an advantage over others based on the classification of race. It is racist, to the core. I feel no “guilt” over the past personally, but I do think that current Americans can and should do better than our collective ancestors did. My ancestors were for the most part not even in the country during slavery and those that did live here were Hessian soldiers. Should I feel “guilt” that they fought for the British against the rebel Americans?

Nobody here alive today experienced the vast bulk of what is being complained about, nor have the vast majority of whites benefited from the advantages of slavery. Yet many here want to claim victim-hood status, and you are apparently willing to accept oppressor status based on very specious logic. Now if your only interest is in speaking in secret code rather than solving whatever problem might exist, you are on the right track. Frankly, I have little interest in that and would rather look at where our common interests lie – that a small number of people are controlling more and more of the wealth of this nation. Race is irrelevant unless you want to cause division amongst those who are in the same economic straights.
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 04:36:57 Matari

JT

I find no fault with what you wrote, or how you said it.
It did make me laugh, though!

As you just said, I was only addressing the TRUTH of the matter.

(Notice how the subject has now shifted/derailed to the Chinese, Japanese and Koreans? Looks like things are getting hot in Mr. Lister’s kitchen! Can’t stand the heat … derail)
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 04:40:32 Dave Lister

Please, Matari, do and try to stay focused. The claim was that “race” was a purely European construct. That has been shown to be patently false.

Derailment and diversion do seem to be your methods.
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 05:11:00 V-4

@Truthbetold/Nom De Plume

Yes; those things cost money but over the course of years, they could have been able to get the resources to deal with it.

And I’m not bad talking the poor, been poor grew up with welfare and going to the dump to get clothes, toys and food. You did what you had to do to get by.

I’m not saying it had to look good or professional.
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 07:54:18 just a white person...kind of

There are alot of posts with White people are this and White people are that…Well, as a white person, i neither fear you nor do I believe I should give you special treatment due to the color of your skin. For whatever reasons, my ancestors did not like black people, but I am a new generation and made it my goal to include more tolerance and understanding into my viewpoint. I did not choose the way of my parents. But at the same time, as an individual, I don’t appreciate being told what my viewpoints are based on my race. I guess I could understand why black people are still suspicous and accusing us whites all the time..it is not going to change overnight. but please don’t generalize every white person in the same category..if you don’t want to be generalized either, then you could understand.
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 07:59:21 Gen

Really Dave?

Bob beats his wife so its not big deal if Tom does it, she needs to shut up and smile at the dinner parties so Tom can get that promotion and she can get beaten in a nicer house right? People of color being quiet about America’s racial hierarchy is not in OUR best interest. Genocide, stolen labor, stolen identities, broken treaties, internment camps, reservations, experiments, segregation, white flight, police brutality, “ching chong” hats, good credit but bad loans, last hired but first fired (hardly ancient history), the list goes on but oh let’s not talk about that!

So what if your family wasn’t on the Mayflower, your johnny come lately European immigrant ancestors were let into the club based on their similar pigmentation and their willingness to “play ball” to preserve a white haven built on wholesale murder,rape, theft, exclusion and lies and YOU (with their -one more time – similar pigmentation) benefit from it and even take pride in it, America isn’t the result of pixy dust and pony kisses so don’t pretend that white people don’t have racial baggage (and not the head shaving, cross burning cliche degenerate BS either). Now the greed of the elites is waaay too obvious, jobs and housing are a problem for YOU, they were problems for different groups in the American population before that (and it has only gotten worse), it was called whining then but with buzzwords like “we are the 99″, anger and outrage at injustice is now legit and acceptable, see a pattern? You sir, don’t get to say “race is irrelevant”, it wasn’t engineered to “other”, dehumanize, and push you to the back of the line.
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 08:05:23 sam

Like I’ve said in other threads, the white americans do not want to admit that their whole counrty is based on racism. At first, racism against the REAL americans, the natives, which is still going on today. Yes, I have witnessed this by myself in various forms. Againts the blacks, yes, I have see this too. Against the asians, “chinks, dinks, slant eyes, dingdongs etc.” Against others “towelheads, ragheads etc.”

It is in the very core of the System, so much so, that white americans can not see it nor they want to admit it. Get real with the real history of your country. Find out the facts. You can see it yourselves! The whole System is made to benefit the very few and racism is one of the bed rocks of the System.

When italians came to USA in droves back in late 19th century early 20th, they were stuffed in horrible ghettoes and called as garlic eating greasers, dirty subhumans worthy only for manual labour. When the irish came, they were looked as monkey, just check any cartoon of that time. The only way these immigrants could begin their social climb was to join in the System, to accept its very core values, that there is always some other group beneath you. These happened to be the blacks and the natives.

The whole System is based on this: in order to better your own social status, you must join in and accept their values, and the racist world view. In order to get better life, you must step on somebody else. If you want to have a chance in this System, you must act the way that those above you will give you a pass. They will show you how to get on, but they will not let you rise too high. Only way to get in, to join the Club, is money.

Once you make a millions, you are accepted. At that level race is no more an issue. You can join the country clubs and golf clubs and such and laugh and enjoy with your white counter parts. And that, my friends, shows you what it is all about: Money.

Racism is one very important tool in the System. It is conquer and divide, keep those mexicans, salvadorans, dominicans, jamaicans, haitians, blacks, chinese, koreans and others fighting between themselves. Keep them hating each other, competening with each other, and they won’t even notice how you reap the harvest right in front of them. Dangle the carrot in front of them: look, P Diddy made it, so can you! Yes, once you have made your millions. Then you are in, at least as long as you have those millions.
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 08:13:05 Teddy

Dave Lister, get back on the Red Dwarf, of course race is a purely European construct. That is race, as it is under discussion here. One Drop Rule, “White superiority”, all that.
There might be some justification in calling it a European-American, rather than a European one, but considering Raza, as in la Pura Raza Española, as proof that “Race” is not a WHITE concept, just demonstrates your ignorance.
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 09:12:42 Dave Lister

Really really Gen. Once again all I see are mass generalizations, racism, and whining that life isn’t fair. I don’t recall anyone saying that they need to “shut up” or “be quiet” so once again we see the strawman set up to be torn down by those too emotional and without any reasoning ability at all. “Ching chong hats” (whatever those are) mixed in with a list including genocide do your point, whatever it is, so much good in establishing a sense of proportion as well. You feel free to protest “ching chong hats” though if you feel it helps your cause – which by this point I can’t even tell if you know.

Just what “ball club” do you think I’m a member of? Again, you want to be treated based on your own criteria but your behavior as an individual is so bad why would anyone want to associate with you? Another strawman gets set up to be knocked down in her “pixy dust and pony kisses” silliness, again, not something I or anyone else have claimed. America has racial baggage period – and people like you are doing nothing whatsoever to eliminate that and forced to conclude that without it, you wouldn’t know who you are. I came from nowhere with nothing and nobody gave me anything. I got a good education in a field that pays well and am not a boss or manager of anyone, black, red, white, or purple. Where you get off making all kinds of claims about me while whining that someone else does that to you is hypocritical in the extreme.

Now, I can tell you that I saw the problem of the elites from way back during the Reagan years, which means I’ve been seeing it a whole hell of a lot longer than you have, but you go right ahead and feel special in your victim-hood and demand that all whites are out to oppress you, all the while busy alienating any possible allies – such as GAYS – because you can’t possibly look beyond your own nose. Funny how you feel free to speak FOR all these other minorities when most of them haven’t any more interest in your juvenile politics and self-interest posing as morality than I do. Without allies and the ability to form consensus your self-interested whining will never be anything more.

The last strawman, that I don’t get to say that race is irrelevant gets set up by you Gen. I never claimed I did, so there goes that self-righteousness along with the rest of your unenlightened self-interest. What I would like to know is if a solution is even possible, and listening to people like you, I would have to say No. Fortunately in reality you don’t speak for anyone but yourself, and even that is so much noise added to an already noisy background.

Is this blog nothing but a mutual masturbation and whining arena?
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 09:19:23 Dave Lister

Teddy, you are free of course to make whatever statements you like, and without evidence they will be given all the validity they deserve. Frankly, I don’t care what you think about the concept of race, as without a doubt the definition is used as a political tool rather than in an overall historical context. I’ve already shown more than one example of a contradiction, which is all I need to do to make the claim worthless, and with little effort I could find many more.

As far as Red Dwarf is concerned, Dave Lister is one of my all time favorite television characters and I think the actor is very good. That’s why I use the name of the character. Interesting what Dave Lister’s race is, don’t you think?
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 10:47:42 Gen

“Race is irrelevant unless you want to cause division amongst those who are in the same economic straights.”

You said that.

You are dreaming if you think not trying to sort out racial baggage won’t have an effect on who gets what if the country gets back on its feet.
White Americans have a long rich tradition of voting against their class interest because of racism so that ship has sailed, focusing on the gap without addressing the causes won’t fix it soo now I’m right back at my wife beating analogy and pretty much all of the previous post. If you don’t understand what binds the major atrocities to the smaller indignities in the list then I don’t know what to tell you. I’m not even going to get into your ally comment and ways in which race/gender/sexuality intersect, neither will I touch your bootstrap story and the irony of you calling me a hypocrite haha. You type a lot but say very little so I’m probably not going to read your next wall of text.
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 11:04:19 JT

“Unfortunately, JT, the Japanese have historically considered THEMSELVES to be of a different and better race than the Chinese or Koreans, a prejudice which still exists today. It doesn’t really matter that YOU consider them to be of the same race, the excuse for their behavior was exactly the same.”

And yet you haven’t been able to exemplify this arguement with a japanese philosopher, political theorist, economist from the 17th century or forward like i have (Blumenbach/Jefferson) with a W. European/U.S example.

And Blumenbach/Jefferson represent neither the earliest nor the most prolific authors on this subject and knowledge.

Moreover, you have provided little evidence to your claim that the Japanese racially motivated and propped up a whole economy based on that claim.

“Please, Matari, do and try to stay focused. The claim was that “race” was a purely European construct. That has been shown to be patently false.

Derailment and diversion do seem to be your methods.”

That seems to be a bit rich coming from someone who dived right into south-east asia for tangential evidence that barely even represents as much.
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 11:35:05 Teddy

Nope, Dave Lister always seemed pretty much compatible with a miscegenated future to me.With other words, though I do believe in the possibility of human races (subspecies, genetically distinct variants), I do not consider any hybrid between genetically different populations from Africa and/or from orher continents, as being anything but a generic human being. So Dave Lister is just “Species: Homo sapiens L.1758 Race: N/A” to me.

“Unfortunately, JT, the Japanese have historically considered THEMSELVES to be of a different and better race than the Chinese or Koreans, a prejudice which still exists today. It doesn’t really matter that YOU consider them to be of the same race, the excuse for their behavior was exactly the same”

Did they consider themselves a better people, a better culture, a better race, a better tradition or a better something else? The transition/translation of a concept between languages is often very hard. You claim that they thought of themselves as an English word, and I am pretty sure they did not do that.No contradiction, just another evidence that in the USA intelligence, unlike education, often seems to correlate with pigmentation.

“The fact is that “race” is not a only a white concept, but is embedded in such things as the Hispanic “La Raza” name. ”

La Raza is Spanish, thus Raza is a Spanish concept, White means European or descendant of Europeans in this context, Spain is a European Nation, and thus is La Raza a white concept.That some products of miscegenation use it to indicate themselves too, does not mean that the concept is not White.Where is your contradiction?

“I don’t know about stormfront, but this is as racist a place as I’ve seen in the past 20 years. ”

You don’t know about Stormfront? First week online? Got your vision restored by a miracle after 20 years? Please do tell. If this is really the most racist place you have ever seen, please do tell where you live, loads of dark folks would like to move into your neighbourhood.
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 11:58:22 abagond

“Emilysnewfan
abagond
@ Emily:

“Please quote something I said and then tell us why it is racist.”

Abagond, look at your posts for a minute with an objective eye. You’re totally crazy and definitely racist. Is she/he actually going to get a useful reply from you?

Best just to ignore you and see if anything useful can come from interaction with the other racist black people.”

Wow:

1. You call me a racist
2. Refuse to back it up.
3. Hide behind a sock puppet.
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 12:17:06 abagond

@ Dave Lister

Gen’s comment was great. She was not trying to disprove your statements but show how wrong your whole mindset is. You should reread it and try to understand it as if it might be true:

http://abagond.wordpress.com/2012/01/02/why-do-whites-hate-demonize-fear-or-look-down-on-blacks/#comment-107467
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 12:49:33 abagond

@ just a white person…kind of

“But at the same time, as an individual, I don’t appreciate being told what my viewpoints are based on my race. I guess I could understand why black people are still suspicous and accusing us whites all the time..it is not going to change overnight. but please don’t generalize every white person in the same category..if you don’t want to be generalized either, then you could understand.”

I never ever say ALL whites or EVERY white. I am not that brainless. If my statements do not apply to you, then great, I am happy for you. But in my experience, MOST of the whites that it does not apply to do not get upset.
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 13:03:22 JT

@ Abagond

It’s funny the number of times you’ve needed to clarify that (in my short time here I’ve seen it in a large number of your posts). I think you even clarified that with me when i first started posting here.

It would seem that whites take the greatest exception when they are being prototyped. It would be interesting to track how strong our ire is to the prototypes of people of color. For example, how repulsed or outraged we become when we hear Gingrich talking about the black food stamp epidemic.
Where is the roaring then?

JT
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 13:26:32 Nom De Plume

@V-4:

‘And I’m not bad talking the poor, been poor grew up with welfare and going to the dump to get clothes, toys and food. You did what you had to do to get by.’

—

Point taken.

***********

@Just a white person…kind of’:

‘…nor do I believe I should give you special treatment due to the color of your skin.’

—

I think this where many white people err in their thinking. I don’t think the vast majority of people of color want special treatment. FAIR treatment is what’s really desired. I think people look at some of the programs and spokespeople out there and ASSUME special treatment is what people of color are demanding. Special treatment is not the the goal, evening the playing field is.
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 13:38:42 Teddy

Fair treatment with a smile, perhaps.
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 13:40:04 Lara

“I don’t think the vast majority of people of color want special treatment.”

Yes, they do. And what is up with this term “people of color”? White people aren’t white, we are a range of difference skin tones.

@brothawolf
“And, they don’t care to hear our pain, frustrations”

Unless I’m your therapist, you’re right, I don’t want to hear this.
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 13:43:25 abagond

“…nor do I believe I should give you special treatment due to the color of your skin.”

Most whites in America will say this but they always seem to find one excuse or another to oppose any solid measure that would threaten the special treatment that society gives their colour of skin. Most > 80%, in this case.
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 13:47:37 Nom De Plume

@emily valier aka @emilysnewfan:

So you’ve been hiding behind a sock puppet? You said you had to leave last night because you were off to the gym. It appears you are the one who doesn’t want to answer questions.

@emily valier aka @emily’s new fan:

‘You’re more delusional and even LESS intelligent than the average Stormfront or VNN poster so it’s clear you’ll never be a threat to the long term survival of the United States or Western civilization as a whole

—

This sounds kind of racist…and arrogant ; )
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 13:55:02 Lara

“This sounds kind of racist”

Most of what white people say, sounds racist to you, so what’s the difference.
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 14:14:09 Nom De Plume

@Teddy:

Smiles are cool when they’re genuine.
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 14:17:36 Lara

If I am going to be held responsible for something my ancestors may have done over 150 years ago, then can I hold all black people responsible for present day black on white crime?
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 14:55:07 JT

Why would you? You have nothing to lose from the way in which the system is currently structured.

There is no parallel here. I know the absence of one must be infuriating however you need to move on with life and accept that what is told to you is infact the truth.
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 14:57:43 Lara

JT,
Are you talking to me?
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 15:00:59 JT

No the person behind you. =D
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 15:06:05 JT

That was sarcasm. Yes I am talking to you.
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 15:09:44 Lara

Well, I don’t get your point. If you don’t want to defend your own race, fine, a lot of white people aren’t interested in discussing race. I just don’t see why you are so down on your own people. You know we aren’t the way the people on here are making us out to be.
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 15:20:33 JT

Well, I guess i would say that i’m not with you on your premise: that white people represent “your own people.” Maybe in a very loose way (i.e. melanin, socio-economic privilege) but in many significant ways, we are quite different.

I am surprised you haven’t found more of that over the course of your own socialization.
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 15:30:37 Lara

White people are very diverse, we are interesting that way. We also don’t have strong race loyalty. These are good qualities, if you think about it. Even so, I’m not going to trash other white people just to be accepted by black people.
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 15:50:14 Dave Lister

“Is this blog nothing but a mutual masturbation and whining arena?”

Given the mindless whining of the responses I’ll take “Yes” as the correct answer. Feels good but ultimately useless.
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 15:58:12 Satanforce

“Is this blog nothing but a mutual masturbation and whining arena?”

Given the mindless whining of the responses I’ll take “Yes” as the correct answer. Feels good but ultimately useless.

Actually, here hardly qualifies. If you want to see what mutual masturbation and whining is among black people, just go look for a forum or blog about “Afrocentricsm”. If anyone wanted to see Nietzsche’s Last (Black) Man in action, that would be the place.

Not even Black Marxists like those guys.
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 15:59:02 abagond

“Is this blog nothing but a mutual masturbation and whining arena?”

Given the mindless whining of the responses I’ll take “Yes” as the correct answer. Feels good but ultimately useless.

A commenter answers his own comment about masturbation. Wow.
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 16:09:24 Satanforce

For example, how repulsed or outraged we become when we hear Gingrich talking about the black food stamp epidemic.
Where is the roaring then?

At the homepage there is currently a profile on Ronald Reagan. At the end of that profile is on the welfare queen stereotype. That may be a good place to start in order to find the answer to your (rhetorical ) question.

But the whole pigmentation thing being a way to keep people “out of the clubhouse” is something that I don’t necessarily buy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_immigration_to_the_United_States#Educational_attainment

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2007/03/black_immigrants_an_invisible.html
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 16:34:29 Truthbetold

Reading this blog is rocking me sideways.
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 16:54:31 Dave Lister

No, abagond, nobody else answered the question directly. I merely point out the conclusion based on the indirect answers given.
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 16:57:13 Matari

Brothawolf said:

“It’s futile to talk with them from a different point of view. They are too screwed up to give another person’s POV a chance, yet, they log into blogs like this for what? To disturb forums. To grab attention, and to spew their predictable bullshit.

And that is the truth. They can’t stand the truth. They devalue truth. They could care less about how “we” feel. They don’t care if we are suffering.
…

They want us to shut up and be happy while we love and respect them UNCONDITIONALLY.

These trolls here are mentally challenged, psychologically broken, spiritually absent, morally deprived, overprivileged, warped human beings with self-esteem issues and too much idle time on their hands.”

——————————

White children, in the main, and whether they are rich or poor, grow up with a grasp of reality so feeble that they can – very accurately – be described as deluded – about themselves and about the world they live in.

White people have managed to get through entire lifetimes in this euphoric state, but black people have not been so lucky:

a black man who sees the world the way John Wayne, for example, sees it would not be an eccentric patriot, but a raving maniac. …

People who cling to their delusions find it difficult, if not impossible, to learn anything worth learning:

a people under the necessity of creating themselves must examine everything, and soak up learning the way the roots of a tree soak up water.

As people still held in bondage must believe that “Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make ye free.

***************
James Baldwin
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 17:09:16 Tyrone

Lara:

Putting blackwomen on a pedestal is not about having control over blackwomen. As blackmen and men in general, we respect the building blocks of our humanity…God, Blackwomen, Family, Children, etc. If a blackman loves blackwomen, he loves black people…Bottomline!!!

Tyrone
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 17:12:27 Truthbetold

@ Tyrone

Save your energy for something more constructive.
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 17:18:00 Truthbetold

@ Matari
” a black man who sees the world the way John Wayne, for example, sees it would not be an eccentric patriot, but a raving maniac. …

People who cling to their delusions find it difficult, if not impossible, to learn anything worth learning”

Wow.
I’ve heard comments about why blacks don’t love their country and such.
This is an awesome, realistic explaination.
I’ve always said that it’s not that blacks hate America but that we have a realistic view of it.

And yes, delusions make it impossible to open ones’ mind. You become a mental slave to your own lies.
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 17:46:44 Matari

@Truthbetold

“Wow.
I’ve heard comments about why blacks don’t love their country and such.
This is an awesome, realistic explaination.
I’ve always said that it’s not that blacks hate America but that we have a realistic view of it..”

*********************

“… we are the victims of a kidnapping, enslavement, embarrassment [hatred, oppression] and harassment. Everything else should be moot. Frankly, no kidnapped person should ‘behave’ according to the standards of the kidnappers.”

Onitaset
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 19:45:08 Dave Lister

Matari, just when were you “the victim(s) of a kidnapping, enslavement,”?

I can believe some of the last two embarrassment [hatred, oppression] and harassment.
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 19:47:02 Dave Lister

Lara asked a question that I have yet to see anyone answer. Why?
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 19:54:36 Teddy

Lara posts a lot, what question are you talking about?
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 20:10:05 Dave Lister

“If I am going to be held responsible for something my ancestors may have done over 150 years ago, then can I hold all black people responsible for present day black on white crime?”
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 20:22:42 Teddy

@Dave Lister: No, not all of them.
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 20:55:26 Dave Lister

Teddy: ???
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 21:15:30 Matari

Dave Lister,

I’m nowhere as generous as some others here, so I shan’t be feeding you any more TROLL food… please go beg somewhere else.
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 21:22:23 Teddy

Answer has been provided.
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 21:50:25 Demerera

Lara asked a question that I have yet to see anyone answer. Why?

You know when you’re on a long car journey with kids getting fractious and bored in the backseat and the same conversation keeps going back and forth from adult to child with little variation:-

“Are we there yet”

“No”

“When will we get there?”

“Soon”

“How soon?”

” X time”

A few minutes passes

“What time is it”

“X time”

“How long til we get there”

“Well, if I told you we were due to get there at X time, how long do you think it will be?”

“Yeah but, I want you to tell me cos its taking ages”

“Come on, you can do it, lets work it out together”

“Dont wanna, I’m bored. I wanna go home, its taking too long now”

Get the gist. Look at the previous comments Lara has made on other posts – i’m sure she’ll make you proud!!!!
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 21:54:44 abagond

@ Dave Lister:

Lara is an attention whore and a troll. She is not serious about any of the things discussed on this blog. She just says whatever racist thing comes into her head and then sits back amuses herself with the reactions. She is not here to learn or understand or anything like that. She is a huge waste of time.
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 21:56:54 Lara

You might be right, but it was still a legitimate question. Why do whites have to take responsibility for the crimes of whites from the past, and yet blacks don’t even have to take responsibility for current day crimes?
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 21:59:20 brothawolf

Dave Lister,

Why should anyone provide an answer to someone who will likely reject it because it doesn’t sit well with her “views”? Why should anyone attempt to make you, Lara, or any one of you like-minded thinkers try to see OUR POV when in the end, you don’t care no matter how many times you ask for proof or evidence you would reject anyway? In other words Dave, why bother?

You think you’re right no matter what Abagond or anyone who disagrees says. So, what’s the point in conversing with you. For that matter, why come here if you don’t plan on considering different viewpoints? This is what I talked about earlier.
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 21:59:42 abagond

@ Dave Lister

You also seem to be a waste of time, which is why I have said little to you. You have received some excellent answers and comments which you either choose not to understand or pick at the edges of instead of understanding the substance of what is said to you. And then, after not truly listening to anyone, you expect us to listen to you and your advice.
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 22:02:12 Teddy

@Dave Lister, “Of them”

@ Everybody,
this is sort of an race relations historyl IQ-test,
Click on the link,
You see’ll a picture from Surinam before 1863,
Watch it carefully
Count the slaves.
How many slaves are there?
Please post the answer.

http://www.schooltv.nl/slavernij/enlargment.jsp?vraag_id=10116
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 22:02:42 Lara

I do see your point of view. I have put myself in a black person’s shoes many times. Even if I understand you, it doesn’t mean I have to agree with you.
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 22:04:13 Lara

There aren’t any slaves in that picture.
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 22:05:41 brothawolf

Lara, I’ll answer this question by asking this one: Why don’t whites take responsibility for their crimes, past, present, and way more numerous and destructive as well as become aware of the privileges they have as a result of those crimes commit by most whites, but expect all blacks to take responsibility for a few crimes by a few blacks against whites?

Frankly Lara, I’m tired of you. You are not worth my blood pressure much less my attention. I’m going to do what your parents have done and give up on you.
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 22:07:11 brothawolf

Lara, to be frank, you are too intellectually and morally retarded to learn…or evolve.
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 22:08:48 Demerera

@Lara

Even if I understand you,

The $64,000 question is not if or whether you do understand but whether or not you care to comprehend. I dont mean in the tactile sense – more from the fact that clearly, your ‘prejudices’ dont impede you in day to day life so does it really bother you whether you ‘get it’ or not….
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 22:08:59 sepultura13

@ Demerera:

That pretty much sums it up!
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 22:09:31 Teddy

Lara: 0, the answer of the humanist dreamer, who has no understanding at all of Dutch.

The text under it translates as”The slave at the right has rented a slave boy”.
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 22:30:20 Dave Lister

Abagond, I don’t care if you listen to my advice or not, frankly, certainly much less than you care whether or not I accept yours. To say I’ve received “excellent answers and comments” is again stretching the definitions of words beyond all relevant use. What I have gotten are claims with no real backing, complaints with no real solutions proposed (other than white people are bad), and illogic and Catch-22′s that approach astronomical proportions. If I don’t get your POV it’s because it was either phrased in such racist language (by many here), made claims about what I personally think, is historically highly dubious, or simply ranting nonsense.

Here Teddy replied to the question without any context and thinks he’s done his job – and I noticed you deleted my reply probably because of the word “silly”. “Not all of them” is an answer if you know what “them” in the question is being referenced.

Someone posted a comment about how it wasn’t the job of black people to fight white racism, it was the job of whites. As if the correspondence of my skin color determines whether or not it’s my job. Turned around then it’s the job of the black people not white people to fight black crime and whatever other antisocial behavior blacks might engage in regardless of whether that’s their career, or they know the person, but only because they share certain familial characteristics.

Another person claims race is an invention of whites, which can be and has been shown to be false. European “scientists” developed what has been called scientific racism, but that was due primarily to the fact that science itself in a methodical sense was a European development following the end of the Islamic golden age. That pseudo-science was opposed by others at the time and has since been repudiated by the mainstream scientific establishment.

There seem to be many people here who are set in their world view that whites are the source of all evil, that all whites are responsible for what evil has occurred, and that we should simply accept that point of view as truth. I see people reinforcing each others distorted world view to the point where it becomes accepted truth in spite of the historical facts in contradiction. I’ve already said that I feel no guilt for the actions of anyone in the past other than myself, nor do I accept the flawed but apparently accepted notion here that I should without way more than I’ve seen here. By all means hang onto that, it seems so successful – and I’m sure you know the definition of insanity, right?
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 22:56:12 Teddy

Show that “race” as used in the country south of Canada, is not a European invention, please.
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 23:41:24 Happiness

Skimming through this article very quickly and reading some comments, this highlights one of the main things I absolutely do not like about the Internet, the ability for some people to return under a number of guises, characters and personas to wreak havoc, troll and generally just stir the pot.

After a while the whole thing justs gets confusing, especially having to read through the trollish posts. I never know whether I’m on a serious website or involved in an experiment, which frankly spoils my enjoyment of this website and wanting to participate/contribute.

How can I take anything seriously here when some of the characters appear to be disturbed in the mind?

You never know who is who on here.
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 23:47:51 Herneith

Where are these “people” coming from???

I’d hazard a guess and say Uranus. They are, for the most part comical. The perplexing thing for me is why do they bother? If I think someone is ‘stupid’ whether by choice or by inclination, I don’t talk or interact with them unless I am paid to. That speaks to their own lack of intelligence if anything. It also speaks to their lack of self -worth.

Unfortunately, JT, the Japanese have historically considered THEMSELVES to be of a different and better race than the Chinese or Koreans, a prejudice which still exists today.

But that happened to me too!!!!!

Here in this group I see people like the host who consider, based on their race, that they are “better” than other groups.

I don’t consider myself to be better than anyone. I AM BETTER, NO IFS ANDS, OR BUTTOCKS, I MEAN BUTS.

Should I feel “guilt” that they fought for the British against the rebel Americans?

Yes. Don’t get me wrong, I love Yankee men! I think every woman should have one, especially those fine football players in tights!

Race is irrelevant unless you want to cause division amongst those who are in the same economic straights.

Communist! Trotskyite, or Leninist?

Well, as a white person, i neither fear you nor do I believe I should give you special treatment due to the color of your skin.

Why not?

I don’t recall anyone saying that they need to “shut up” or “be quiet”

Shut up and be quiet Dave.

but you go right ahead and feel special in your victim-hood and demand that all whites are out to oppress you,

Dave, what do you think of woman-led relationships? Now that is oppression! Just ask any man in one!

Where’s Dr. Grizlickson when you need him?

If I am going to be held responsible for something my ancestors may have done over 150 years ago, then can I hold all black people responsible for present day black on white crime?

The only crimes here are your babblings! Call the Cops!

JT,
Are you talking to me?

No, your twin sister Ilsa, the she-wolf.

We also don’t have strong race loyalty.

Oh, but you do.

Feels good but ultimately useless.

That sounds like a lot of the men I have dated recently!

“Is this blog nothing but a mutual masturbation and whining arena?”

Maybe I should change my moniker to ‘Master Bates’, but I’m female. Mistress Bates doesn’t have the same feel!

Matari, just when were you “the victim(s) of a kidnapping, enslavement,”?

Last night.

Lara asked a question that I have yet to see anyone answer. Why?

Lara is full of turd that’s why.

She is a huge waste of time.</em.

Oxygen thievery should be made a felony over there in the States.

Why do whites have to take responsibility for the crimes of whites from the past, and yet blacks don’t even have to take responsibility for current day crimes?

Like I wrote before beeyotch, the only crimes are your constant babblings.

and I’m sure you know the definition of insanity, right?

I for one have seen insanity and its’ name is David Lister! Oh where is Dr. Grizlickson? At least he was funny! Seriously, you are one obtuse piece of bunghole matter! I don’t waste my time ‘explaining’ anything to you and your ilk except to mock. That is all you deserve.
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 23:54:01 Teddy

That’s true, Happiness. Oh, and that picture showed two slaves, a man and a boy, passing three free men, recognizable as such as they wear shoes, which was something slaves were not allowed to do in Surinam.
on Tue 10 Jan 2012 at 23:55:33 sam

@herneith:
on Wed 11 Jan 2012 at 01:39:26 Surviving The Break Up Of A Narcissistic Relationship | Narcissistic Relationship

[...] Jobs: Artist, Genius, Narcissistic Peddler, Destroyer of the EarthDo You Love a Narcissist?Why do whites hate, demonize, fear and look down on blacksCufon.replace('#header h1, #header h3', { fontFamily: "" });Cufon.replace('#header p.tagline', { [...]
on Wed 11 Jan 2012 at 02:29:14 Dave Lister

Teddy, so everyone in bare feet is a slave? Who was the owner, one of the others in the picture? You are drawing conclusions that the picture alone does not grant. Also, nobody I know of claimed that “race as used in the country south of Canada” was not a European invention. That’s just another straw man amongst all the others that you seem to thrive on as arguments.

Hereneith, I rather doubt anyone pays you for anything, much less to hear what “insights” you might have.
on Wed 11 Jan 2012 at 12:36:44 JT

Dave Lister,

Why don’t you try and convince the rest of us that you are worth the free education that everybody has been supplying? Tell us why another minute should be spent on someone who ignores or refutes the facts? It would seem to me that you are, Sir, what we call a “lost cause.”

JT
on Wed 11 Jan 2012 at 12:51:41 Lara

I can’t find the exact quote, but Abagond wrote something about white crimes against blacks, in the past, were worse than black crimes today. Total BS. A crime isn’t some theoretical thing, it is something bad that actually happens to a real person. Unless you are prepared to tell me black people’s lives are worth more than white people lives, you have no leg to stand on.
I would say black on white crime is more random and vicious, than white on black crime ever was.
on Wed 11 Jan 2012 at 12:56:59 JT

Lara,

Why don’t you try and convince the rest of us that you are worth the free education that everybody has been supplying? Tell us why another minute should be spent on someone who ignores or refutes the facts? It would seem to me that you are, Sir, what we call a “lost cause.”

JT
on Wed 11 Jan 2012 at 13:50:22 Lara

Why don’t you answer my question? Any time black on white crime is brought up on this site, it is immediately dismissed. I want to know why. As far as race relations go, I am pretty open to seeing both sides. This is one area that is infuriating to me. If I have to be held responsible for a lynching that happened 100 years ago, then why can’t I hold all black people responsible for the violent crimes that are committed by black people, on a regular basis in this country?
on Wed 11 Jan 2012 at 13:53:07 Lara

For all Herneith’s supposed humor, it’s pretty obvious to me that she is the stereotypical jealous, angry black woman. I have yet to see one comment of any value from her.
on Wed 11 Jan 2012 at 14:12:09 Teddy

Black-on-white crime is an issue, but not such an important issue as why Black-on-Black crime is more than the Black percentage of the population squared as percentage of all crime. That’s why.
on Wed 11 Jan 2012 at 14:24:07 Lara

Black on black crime tends to be more things like disputes over turf and family or domestic issues. If white people are begin targeted merely because of their skin color, that is more alarming.
on Wed 11 Jan 2012 at 15:30:03 sam

@lara: Why it is more alarming? Because victims are whites? What about white on black crime then?

You know the whites lynched blacks quite freely in the South just few decades ago, actually during the life time of your grandparents, I guess. Actually blacks were lynched in USA for couple hundred years at least. That is without court orders, just like that, just because they were blacks. But I guess that was not too big a deal, right? I mean, some white guy is robbed by blacks today. Lynching is nothing compared to that, is it?
on Wed 11 Jan 2012 at 20:53:22 Dave Lister

The free education I have been given would be worth exactly that on an open market, but what I might have learned is that:

1. White people have a crack in their soul or no soul.
2. Everything bad that happens/good does not happen is the responsibility of whites.
3. That a white is racist no matter what he does or does not do personally.
4. Racial guilt, racial virtue, and hereditary guilt and virtue are all facts.
5. Whites solely invented the concept of race.
6. Blacks are not responsible for their condition or any improvement in that condition, from pregnancy, schooling, and employment.
7. If neighborhoods turn to hell following white flight, it is the fault of the whites who left, not the fault of those who stayed/replaced them and turned it to hell.
8. If schools in black neighborhoods are violent, it is not the responsibility of the parents/residents to change this but for others to fix this.
9. Black people cannot be racist because they have no power but all whites are because they all have power whether they know it or not.
10. Attacking a person and calling them racist is the correct approach for every possible infraction, whether intended or not.
11. That the list of four frames of a white persona talking about racism is designed with Catch-22 type logic such that a white person is always racist.
12. Because all whites are racist whether they know it or not, the only solution is for whiteness to disappear – a la the Final Solution.

Since I believe none of this, yes JT I’m sure in your racially polarized radically politicized mind I’m a “lost cause”, someone who believes that working together is the only solution – not conflict. I’ll wear that label proudly.

Interesting, as this never occurred to me before now but I’m sure it has to others, Cavil in the new Battlestar Galactica series is a direct commentary on race relations. Cavil’s excuse for genocide would meet with the approval of some I’ve seen here.
on Wed 11 Jan 2012 at 21:00:56 sam

@Dave Lister: Oh, grow up, man! You behave like a three year old in a tandrum. If you do not like whats been said here, think about why all these people are saying what they are saying. Try to think what is it what makes people this bitter or recentful, angry or what ever. They did not just pop out of nowhere and started to behave nasty. Instead of trying to do that, you just whine like a baby.
on Wed 11 Jan 2012 at 21:03:44 Lara

sam,
White people are often murdered by black people today. I was not thinking of just theft, which barely gets the attention of the police.
on Wed 11 Jan 2012 at 22:00:23 Dave Lister

LOL, sam. I have avoided saying that very thing about the complainers here, and the lack of any useful solution proposed along with the complaints. What I posted is exactly, some of the the comments I have read perusing many of the older threads. So people are “bitter or resentful, angry or what ever”, that justifies whatever conclusions they want to draw as fact? I agree that in many cases there is cause, I disagree with the analysis and the lack of solutions.

Feel free to point out exactly where a tantrum has been pointed out by myself, or is “tantrum” another code word used around here?
on Wed 11 Jan 2012 at 22:21:51 vanishing point.

@Dave Lister
There are scientific studies that demonstrate that white people lack empathy for other groups, and also, that the more prejudiced the person is, the more likely that the person will also lack empathy for other groups. Sort of like a crack in the soul:) Here is one link, there are more studies if you google Michael Inzlicht.

http://www.michaelinzlicht.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/downloads/2011/06/Gutsell-Inzlicht-in-press1.pdf
on Wed 11 Jan 2012 at 22:32:02 Dave Lister

I see the pseudo-science of scientific racism is alive and well, but with those other than the mainstream scientists, including racists like vanishing point.

Is that really the article you are going to quote as support : “Results revealed no significant differences between ethnic groups on any of these variables, all P’s > 0.16, ns, suggesting that the actors from each ethnic group were viewed similarly, at least at an explicit level.” Nowhere does it say what you claim.
on Wed 11 Jan 2012 at 22:49:16 Teddy

@VP, No that’s not what the article you linked to claims, the article says that the three Earasian groups all showed that behaviour. White was just used in the example.
on Wed 11 Jan 2012 at 22:57:54 abagond

@ Dave Lister and Vanishing Point:

I did a post on an earlier Inzlicht study (that does pretty much say what you are saying):

http://abagond.wordpress.com/2010/05/05/the-hearts-of-white-people-the-science/
on Wed 11 Jan 2012 at 23:05:01 JT

Or

http://www.psych.uncc.edu/pagoolka/cdps287.pdf
on Wed 11 Jan 2012 at 23:14:46 vanishing point.

@Abagond, didn’t know you had done a post, now I get to read your take and all those comments, thanks:)
on Thu 12 Jan 2012 at 01:02:09 Dave Lister

Nonsense, abagond. A study that includes only whites as subjects, which this one did, says NOTHING about whites in the context of other races’ reactions to similar studies. You read what you want to read – eg. whites lack empathy for other groups. What it does say is the prejudiced individuals show a similar involuntary response on a test of responses to actions which themselves are neutral – drinking water. A scientist you are not.

JT, the second study does not answer the question: who were the participants, at least that I saw. A study quoted within that study however says ” Responses made by African American participants in
one study were indistinguishable from those of European
American participants: both groups were biased toward claiming
weapons in black hands more than in white hands (Correll et al.,
2002).” Your reading of this study is just as flawed as abagond was in reading his, or vanishing point in his.

Next.
on Thu 12 Jan 2012 at 01:06:32 Herneith

For all Herneith’s supposed humor, it’s pretty obvious to me that she is the stereotypical jealous, angry black woman. I have yet to see one comment of any value from her.

And you won’t in regards to any of your posts. No, I am not a ‘jealous, angry black woman, I write as I find. I find you and your ilk to be hilarious, hence my supposed ‘humour’!

Hereneith, I rather doubt anyone pays you for anything, much less to hear what “insights” you might have.

I don’t expect to get ‘paid’ nor do I offer any ‘insight’ to you and your kind, it is a lost cause.
on Thu 12 Jan 2012 at 01:21:38 vanishing point.

@Dave Lister,
I think you are focusing too much on trying to discredit this scientific study instead of thinking about the basic concept: groups favor and have empathy for their own group but not other groups.. And whiteness is the power structure in the United States. The whole concept of whiteness sets up a double standard that favors white people and disadvantages people of color. If we want to be moral and if we believe in social justice, if we want to uphold the beliefs that we claim that we cherish, than we have to find ways to increase our empathy for people of color and listen to the experiences that are very generously shared here.
on Thu 12 Jan 2012 at 01:49:40 Dave Lister

I didn’t discredit the scientific studies at all. I discredited unscientific conclusions drawn from them.

As far as experiences are concerned, I have a lot of empathy for people who are the subject of abuse and job/loan/education discrimination. I have none for people in here ranting about slavery and genocide, blaming all whites in the process. Nobody here has experienced that, how ever strongly they rant about it. Similarly, I have no experience of the other side, no matter how strongly I feel about it.

As an ally I’m someone who is all for coming down on the banks, businesses and whoever else has shown a pattern of intentional discrimination.

The power structure in this country is MONEY. Most people will never have much money, black, white, or purple.
on Thu 12 Jan 2012 at 01:57:42 Dave Lister

Hereneith, in understanding your thought processes I am indeed a lost cause.
on Thu 12 Jan 2012 at 03:35:03 brothawolf

Dave Lister,

Just like your kind, it’s unscientific if it makes white people look bad, but on the other hand if it makes you look superior, then it’s legit. SMH.

You don’t know what any of us who are “whining” have been through, nor can you understand how painful it can be. Even if we do tell you, you will dismiss it. People here do not whine. People come to sites like this to vent in a space where it is reserved for people like us who otherwise don’t have an outlet. We are sick and tired of the shit that happened in the past AND present, and we’re sick of being told not to voice our frustration. The last thing we need is you and others like you telling us that we’re whining, when you have no damn clue what it’s like to be black in America.

It’s not your place to tell us what she should and shouldn’t think, should and shouldn’t say, or should and shouldn’t feel. If you do have empathy, you wouldn’t be constantly trying to tell us to stop ranting especially when you don’t know why. That’s not something someone with intelligence or morals would do.
on Thu 12 Jan 2012 at 05:21:36 Dave Lister

Brothawolf, but it’s perfectly ok for you to tell me what I think, what I should think, and demand that I accept your point of view. Obviously, you can’t read because I very much accept that many bad things still happen in the US. What I don’t accept is any group responsibility based on race when you wouldn’t either.

Again, if all you want is a site for mental masturbation on racial topics then I have no further interest. If “white people just won’t understand” in part it’s due to attitudes like yours with no free exchange of ideas. If the majority here just want to ineffectively tell each other how bad whites are and what they should do with no challenge to your ideas then so be it. If talking about what white girls say to black girls is the key issue of the week, count me out. I don’t care about generalizations from either side. You tell me.

As far as science is concerned, get a clue. It is never scientific to draw a conclusion unsupported by the data in question (or article in this case). Conclusions were being drawn and claimed based on these papers for support, when in fact the papers never made the claim, or didn’t conduct the level of research necessary to support the claim of the person here making it. I never refuted or tried to refute anything in those articles, only the misuse of those articles. They simply didn’t say what the poster in question claimed.
on Thu 12 Jan 2012 at 06:11:23 abagond

@ Dave Lister

If you are going to approach what is said here with a closed mind, finding reasons to dismiss what people are saying rather than trying to understand it, then, yes, it is a waste of your time. And people will see you as a lost cause and not take you seriously – why should they? It is not because you disagree with them – it is because you are not even seriously listening. Half of talking is listening.

This blog, far from being just some kind of whine-o-rama of victim-hood, has plenty that examines and questions the very white way you think. White is not always right just because it paid for the microphone.
on Thu 12 Jan 2012 at 06:22:56 brothawolf

Dave Lister,

I didn’t say, nor implied that it’s okay for me to tell you what to think, say, or feel. So, stop pulling straws. And don’t imply that I can’t read. (Is it because I’m black, and therefore illiterate?).

I was saying that is that this is one of the few spaces where people like me can talk freely about living in this society build on white supremacy. Also, I was saying that you have no idea what it’s like to be black in this nation. So, you think all we do is complain when you don’t know what we go through. You can’t make generalizations based on a lack of knowledge. We are not complainers, we are frustrated human beings trapped in a world your people constructed from the blood, sweat, and tears of the red and black man.

By the way, this assumption that whites won’t understand because of attitudes like mine is a tone argument to avoid the subject. People like me don’t have attitudes for nothing. Like I said, we are frustrated, and your stubborn and condescending attitude not to take us seriously doesn’t help at all.

We have ideas, but you won’t listen. You will assume this site is racist against whites without the slightest clue why and why it should be considerable. Most of us don’t hate whites, but we’re tired of the systems and mindset associated with whiteness in regards to POC, and we have the human right to express them.

As far as science goes, the same could be said about scientific racism. They’ve made conclusions based on pseudo-scientific research which have been proven unfounded or false. Yet, they still have a following where people ate it up without question because it supported their racist beliefs. If it sounds good, people will jump on it whether it’s tested or not. Since this was an experiment with some results that were less than favorable to a certain population, it’s no surprise that they would avoid it at all cost and discount it.
on Thu 12 Jan 2012 at 07:20:01 sam

@dave lister: “Again, if all you want is a site for mental masturbation on racial topics then I have no further interest. If “white people just won’t understand” in part it’s due to attitudes like yours with no free exchange of ideas. If the majority here just want to ineffectively tell each other how bad whites are and what they should do with no challenge to your ideas then so be it. If talking about what white girls say to black girls is the key issue of the week, count me out.”

There you go, behaving like a five year old who is mad when things do not go his way.

I don’t agree everything said here, nor I do agree with everybody all the time, sometimes I agree with someone for something, sometimes I dissagree in some other subject. What I do not do, at least try to avoid, is getting angry or insulted. Once you start to go down that road, it is a dead end. That is why so many use that kind of arguing today.

Like the talebans or other religious zelots, you stand up and shout: I am insulted! And that’s it. There are no more arguments. You just have been insulted and feel angry about it. There is no reason, just a feeling of being insulted and thats it.

You try appear as a reasonable man, but you behave like any Al Qaida spokes person or closed minded zelot. “This is it! You accuse all the whites! I’m havin none of it!”. The end.

You do not like to discuss about the slavery? Why? It is the basic cause of all the troubles between the blacks and whites in USA. That is a historical fact. To exclude that from any discussion about race or racism is not only stupid, but also dishonest. You can not wipe history away no matter how much it buggs you. One has to look history as it is and realise that we do not live in some La La Land which has no connection to the things way past. We are products of our histories, wheater we like it or not.

United States of America has a history of racism and racial genocide. That is a fact. Those things echo still today. That is why this blog is alive too. That is why you feel insulted and so angry about these things. But instead of stopping there, instead of just being angry and/or insulted, you should dive head on into the history and look at it as it is. Germans have done that, why can not you? They have no illusions about their history, holocaust and all, why you should have?

I understand that you get angry when some one here says “Whites this and whites that”. It is a generalisation. It may offend you. But at the same time, the black americans hear the same all the time. Even you say it in your responses: YOU do this and that, YOU say this and that about all the whites. Funny, isn’t it?

And even when abagond has repeatedly again and again said and pointed out that he does not talk about ALL THE WHITES, you take it that way. Why? That is something what you should think about. Where that comes from? If you are not a racist and you have an open mind and intelligence to engage in a open discussion of the suibjects, why do you feel so offended? What is it that ticks you off? If you KNOW that you are not a racist white biggot, why do you get so angry, insulted, annoyed? I don’t. I am a white man. But, I am not an american white man. Perhaps there is something there.
on Thu 12 Jan 2012 at 08:59:54 Dave Lister

sam, there is nobody here with the power to insult me in any real way. I don’t allow people with thinking problems to rent that much space in my head. I’m not mad, I’m laughing at you just as I do at the asylum represented by those people commenting on Fox News stories. The hypocrisy here is almost world class. When I say I’m having none of it that means I’ve run out of time to play with the children discussing topics like “what white girls say to black girls”. It means, ok, I thought this was an adult blog, but it turns out not to be the case, so I’ll leave as the real head cases here keep demanding that I and anyone else do who doesn’t tow their party line. I’m not mad, or going to be mad, maybe disappointed, but I’ll live.

As far as slavery is concerned, by all means discuss it. It is a dramatic part of US history, and a very sad blemish on the history of the country. But if I’m going to participate in that discussion, it will be because ALL of the details that are available from those times and the context in which it occurred are discussed, not just cut off at an arbitrary line selected for political purposes.

You mention Germany. If Germany had overthrown the Nazis themselves before they wiped out most of the Jews the moral line would be different. This country went to war in the bloodiest conflict on a per capita basis in which the US has ever been engaged to eliminate the scourge of slavery. Tens of thousands of people were killed or maimed in the US civil war. Also, Germany until recently was a rather monolithic society, with very little immigration. The USA is a polyglot country with a population base that for the most part came here AFTER slavery was ended. The parallels between that case and ours is tenuous.

I’m not offended, angry, insulted, or any other strongly emotional state of mind. I am a little annoyed at the lack of quality in the supposed facts that get tossed around, and I’m disappointed that the goal is not finding solutions, but in playing the blame game. If the whining from a few to leave is the consensus, I will. Simple as that. Not mad, or offended, but shaking my head once again at how silly people can be and wondering what it is you actually think you’re going to accomplish.
on Thu 12 Jan 2012 at 09:20:52 Dave Lister

brothawolf says “I didn’t say, nor implied that it’s okay for me to tell you what to think, say, or feel. So, stop pulling straws.”

That is not a strawman. The theme of what whites should do and think runs under practically every topic that I’ve read so far.

“And don’t imply that I can’t read. (Is it because I’m black, and therefore illiterate?).”

So, you have an attitude. It isn’t helping you reach beyond the choir. That really isn’t my problem. That’s a YP, not an MP.

That is called a “prejudicial question”. If I imply you can’t read its because you clearly haven’t read what was written. The fact that you would even weasel that “reason” in says worlds more about you than it does about me. I have done less stereotyping here than pretty much every other poster I’ve seen, including the host.

“By the way, this assumption that whites won’t understand because of attitudes like mine is a tone argument to avoid the subject. People like me don’t have attitudes for nothing. Like I said, we are frustrated, and your stubborn and condescending attitude not to take us seriously doesn’t help at all.”

So, you have an attitude. It isn’t helping you reach beyond the choir. That really isn’t my problem. That’s a YP, not an MP. It’s like an emotional person lashing out at everyone but wanting them to love and support them anyway.

Yep, scientific racism was not science. It was an aberration and a misuse of the word science. Some people ate it up, no doubt. Lately here it has been attempted to be used by those to show “whites are bad, or lacking empathy or (insert your claim here)”. However, in this case, the papers cited for support of that position don’t say anything of the kind. I don’t know what population you are referring to in this case, that show it in an unfavorable light and so try to avoid it and discount it. The papers themselves don’t do so. The claims people were making for these papers don’t sound any different than someone claiming “blacks have been found to have a lower IQ” or “blacks have been found to be naturally violent” – nonsense that also gets repeated by those trying to sound like they have a scientific argument.

There is no difference.
on Thu 12 Jan 2012 at 09:31:32 Dave Lister

abagond, if someone tells me that they’ve been assaulted, or raped, or denied a promotion, or kept from doing something because of their race, I’m all ears.

When someone says ” this is the way whites think, it’s wrong, and this is the way whites should think” then you will have a strong discussion for two reasons: one, because the thinking among whites is as varied as the number of people in that group. For two, you have no authority to tell me or anyone else how we should think. THERE IS NO MONOLITH. You are however free to tilt at windmills in this country.

“This blog, far from being just some kind of whine-o-rama of victim-hood, has plenty that examines and questions the very white way you think. White is not always right just because it paid for the microphone.”

That’s a strawman, which seems to be a preferred form of argument here – white is not always right. In fact, white doesn’t even agree on what’s right, any more than any other arbitrary grouping of people do.

It’s also nonsense, since you don’t have a clue about me, my politics, my history, where I’ve lived, and what I’ve been through. Similarly I don’t have a clue about your background. There are two options, common ground or hostility. Given that common ground seems to be out, I’ll leave rather than deal with irrational hostility. Again, not mad, not offended – both would rent space in my head.
on Thu 12 Jan 2012 at 09:43:15 abagond

@ Dave Lister

All I know of you is what you wrote here and it is full of scripted, white racist tropes. That is what I based “the very white way you think” on.

My comment was not an argument, straw man or otherwise. It was just a bit of advice. Do with it what you will.
on Thu 12 Jan 2012 at 15:42:37 sam

@dave lister:

“I’m disappointed that the goal is not finding solutions, but in playing the blame game. If the whining from a few to leave is the consensus, I will. Simple as that. Not mad, or offended, but shaking my head once again at how silly people can be and wondering what it is you actually think you’re going to accomplish.”

We can not have any solutions unless we know what is wrong and you keep on denying that there is something wrong. You call it “The Blame Game”. Catchy, but very silly. The only way to accomplish anything is to open it up, let the problems come out. You do not want that. You want to deny them, at least the ones which do not suit you. That is childish and very very immature. Just like your announcement that you are going to walk out. It is precicely the kind of behavior that a person has when he is feeling insulted/offended, just like you do, no matter how much you keep denying it. You are offended when blacks say that whites should examine their heads, right? Why?

“You mention Germany. If Germany had overthrown the Nazis themselves before they wiped out most of the Jews the moral line would be different. This country went to war in the bloodiest conflict on a per capita basis in which the US has ever been engaged to eliminate the scourge of slavery. Tens of thousands of people were killed or maimed in the US civil war. Also, Germany until recently was a rather monolithic society, with very little immigration. The USA is a polyglot country with a population base that for the most part came here AFTER slavery was ended. The parallels between that case and ours is tenuous.”

Nazis considered the jews and the gypsies and slavs and others to be a race apart. They did not see their country homogenious at all. They attempted to make it such according to their ideology, that is by killing all the jews and some others. Some lesser races were destined to be as slaves for their “aryan master race”. I think that kind of thinkin was very much similar as the one which americans had when they slaved blacks and tried to wipe out the native americans. Arguments were very much the same for similar reasons.

The reasons behind the civil war were more complicated than just about slavery. Perhaps you have been brainwashed to think so by your official version of that part of your history. Some states fighting for the Union were actually supporting slavery and practising it. General Lee was an officer in US army before the conflict and originally wanted no war at all in which he was forced to take part in. The economic, political and many other issues were at stake. Not just slavery.

And on that note, when slavery was officially ended, what happened? Did the inherit racism in the very system of the nation and its government sees to be? Did USA hug and kiss the native population and accepted them as brothers? How come a black person could not drink from the same public fountain as whites in the South in early 1960′s? Why native americans were killed by federal and state officials as late as in 1970′s when they wanted what the government had promised to them in many, many legal agreements?

Americans, specially white americans, are very fond of talking about moral values, morals etc. That is why the country is very much a hypocracy, moralistic nation, which talks about the right things and does something else. You are part of that culture. Instead of taking a hard long look at yourself and your country, you want to control the debate. You want people talk like you want. You do want the support of your views and not anything else. You get offended. You get insulted. You act like somebody is calling your mama something dirty. But I am not laughting at you. I feel deep sorry. You are part of the problem, like it or not.
on Thu 12 Jan 2012 at 17:26:07 sepultura13

this assumption that whites won’t understand because of attitudes like mine is a tone argument to avoid the subject. People like me don’t have attitudes for nothing. Like I said, we are frustrated, and your stubborn and condescending attitude not to take us seriously doesn’t help at all.

We have ideas, but you won’t listen. You will assume this site is racist against whites without the slightest clue why and why it should be considerable. Most of us don’t hate whites, but we’re tired of the systems and mindset associated with whiteness in regards to POC, and we have the human right to express them.

Exactly.
on Thu 12 Jan 2012 at 20:03:50 Dave Lister

“We can not have any solutions unless we know what is wrong and you keep on denying that there is something wrong.”

Strawman Number one.

“You call it “The Blame Game”. Catchy, but very silly. The only way to accomplish anything is to open it up, let the problems come out. You do not want that. You want to deny them, at least the ones which do not suit you.

Strawman number two – or perhaps a reading problem.

“That is childish and very very immature. Just like your announcement that you are going to walk out. It is precicely the kind of behavior that a person has when he is feeling insulted/offended, just like you do, no matter how much you keep denying it.”

Persistent strawman claim in the absence of fact. Childish and immature indeed.

“You are offended when blacks say that whites should examine their heads, right? Why?”

Strawman number three. My response to that is the same as a black persons would be – whites and blacks are not a monolithic entities. In a generic sense everyone should examine their heads all the time. However you don’t know what I think, any more than someone who claims that whites have a “crack in their souls”. Some do. Most don’t.

“I think that kind of thinkin was very much similar as the one which americans had when they slaved blacks and tried to wipe out the native americans. Arguments were very much the same for similar reasons.”

Very likely, at least for some. Other Americans held the opposing point of view. At the beginning a compromise was attempted in the hope that slavery would end I suppose. In the end however an extremely bloody war had to be fought. In Germany no such actions occurred, although there were some Germans opposed to the system no significant rebellion happened.

“The reasons behind the civil war were more complicated than just about slavery.”

Of course it was. Do you really want to go off in the direction of state’s rights vs the central government and other related issues? The fact is that the rebellion itself was sparked by the election of Lincoln who it was feared would end slavery.

“General Lee was an officer in US army before the conflict and originally wanted no war at all in which he was forced to take part in. ”

General Lee believed he was a Virginian first, an American second, as did many other at that time. The war forced him to choose.

“Did USA hug and kiss the native population and accepted them as brothers?”

Did you expect to jump from the end of slavery to love in an instant? Nothing I’m aware of evolves that quickly, especially when attitudes have to die with the person before they change.

On public drinking fountains and the NA incidents, I don’t know. The drinking fountains were a fixture in particular areas of the country, ended with “separate but equal” doctrine.

“That is why the country is very much a hypocracy, moralistic nation, which talks about the right things and does something else. You are part of that culture.”

I agree completely – including many other actions like the war in Iraq, torture of prisoners, the war on drugs, the negative influences of the churches, the distortion of money power, the ignorance of the electorate, on and on. You won’t find me disagreeing with any of that.

“Instead of taking a hard long look at yourself and your country, you want to control the debate.”

Nonsense. I can’t possible “control the debate”. I also have a very jaundiced eye towards this country given that my wife and I talk about becoming political refugees to another country should the Republicans win the next election. You don’t know me, or what “hard looks” I’ve done in the past or continue to do. You’d rather make unsupportable claims.

“You want people talk like you want. You do want the support of your views and not anything else. You get offended. You get insulted. You act like somebody is calling your mama something dirty. But I am not laughting at you. I feel deep sorry.”

More repetitive strawman claims. Get over them, they are not factual they are merely an attempt to make me the subject of your debate rather than whatever issue exists. If that’s how you debate, I can well believe that you’ve never gotten anywhere with one.

“You are part of the problem, like it or not.”

1/312,841,543th of the problem as of this exact moment.
on Thu 12 Jan 2012 at 20:06:57 Dave Lister

“All I know of you is what you wrote here and it is full of scripted, white racist tropes.” “Do with it what you will.”

I’ll take that drunken nonsense with a beer chaser please.
on Thu 12 Jan 2012 at 20:12:01 SomeGuy

@ Dave Lister

I’m a little confused as to why you are here. You pretty much have to be looking for this blog to find it and it primarily deals with Black issues.

I personally would never go to a website that dealt with White issues and do what you are doing, so you don’t see anything strange about your presence here?
on Thu 12 Jan 2012 at 20:48:21 Dave Lister

Ah yes, another demand for compliance. If this blog “primarily dealt with black issues” it wouldn’t spend so much time talking about perceived white issues and what whites should do to change.

I’ve already stated how I found this blog, and no, I wasn’t looking for it. It is interesting to find a blog that is a mirror image of some of the tamer white racist websites.
on Thu 12 Jan 2012 at 20:57:51 Truthbetold

@ Dave

I too am confused as to why you are here.

The reason why we, as people of colour, spend so much time discussing whiteness is because we are constantly at the brunt of it.

Black issues are indeed comingled with white issues because of this racist society.
You cannot deny that there is one without the other.
If you do…please find another blog.
This is not the one for you.
on Thu 12 Jan 2012 at 21:04:06 Dave Lister

Of course issues are comingled, but that wasn’t what the previous poster claimed now, was it.
on Thu 12 Jan 2012 at 21:14:48 SomeGuy

@ Dave Lister

I am not asking you to comply with anything. Why are you so defensive?

I think the problem is that you don’t think you are brainwashed. You don’t think there is anything wrong with you. You think you are a completely rational thinker. You are not.
on Thu 12 Jan 2012 at 21:18:18 Dave Lister

I may not be a “completely rational thinker”, SomeGuy, but compared to anyone I’ve seen post in response to me I’m the ultimate rational thinker.

Anyone who has to ask why someone is a little defensive given the silly responses is pretty far down the list.
on Thu 12 Jan 2012 at 21:25:45 SomeGuy

@Dave Lister

When a person goes to Alcoholics Annonymous, one of the first things they do is stand up and say, “Hi, I am so-and-so. I’m an alcholic.” The person humbly acknowledges his affliction. That individual may slip up, now and then, but at least he recognizes the problem and takes each day as he can.

You haven’t even entered the building yet, much less SERIOUSLY admit you have a problem.
on Thu 12 Jan 2012 at 22:40:24 Dave Lister

Did you have something relevant to say, SomeGuy, or were you just randomly sniping with BS?
on Thu 12 Jan 2012 at 23:02:17 sam

@dave lister: “On public drinking fountains and the NA incidents, I don’t know.”

That is right, you do not know, and yet you make claims here like you know. That, my friend, is part of the problem. If you knew that federal officers shot down unarmed native americans in 70′s and got easily away with that, you would come down from your high horse and start to talk about the issues instead of acting like the highest authority on everyhting or some highschool debate club referee.

If, by some miracle accident, you would’ve been looking at a gun pointed at you just because the officer of law took you by mistake as an native one, you would have another kind of perspective towards these issues. I can assure you, it is very much claryfying moment when you realize, that your life is in danger because the policies of the federal state by an officer of that said state. Just because they mistakenly think you are part of a group they are after because of their race identity. Or when you are in a car with young black men at night and two police cruisers stop you “just to check you out”. Those are moments which make some issues very clear very fast.

Now, before you start throwing straw men around again, these incidents are real. They happen in USA every day. Racial profiling is alive and doing extremely well. That is part of the problem and that is why some of the black commenters here seem to be a bit annoyed towards the white americans. I very well understand that perhaps you never have had such experiences and regard them as fanciful story telling, but if so, then that is also part of the problem. Perhaps you understand what I am trying to say.Perhaps you do not.
on Thu 12 Jan 2012 at 23:02:43 Nom De Plume

@Someguy:

in response to @Dave Lister:

‘When a person goes to Alcoholics Annonymous, one of the first things they do is stand up and say, “Hi, I am so-and-so. I’m an alcholic.” The person humbly acknowledges his affliction. That individual may slip up, now and then, but at least he recognizes the problem and takes each day as he can.”

—

I was going to use that same analogy for a comment on a different thread. It is so fitting. In order to overcome a problem, one has to admit that there IS a problem.
on Thu 12 Jan 2012 at 23:11:51 brothawolf

Dave Lister,

You’re no different than the other trolls stop by. You throw around your arrogance and conceitedness trying not to take in what other people are saying while, on the other hand, expect them to agree with you. Abagond, Sam, Truthbetold, SomeGuy, and myself disagree with you and presented sound reasons as to why. You on the other hand can’t accept it, and as a result become defensive making childish insults.

We are just saying that there is another side to the stories that you’ve obviously been taught since day one, and that side should never be discounted simply because you have an inability to understand them. You could at least try to see it from a different perspective. Now, I know you’re thinking that it applies to us as well, but the problem is WE ALWAYS HEAR IT FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF WHITES, and what you’re saying is what we hear all the time. You see in the world of whiteness, we have to learn what you learn, see what you see, think what you think, and feel what you feel. However, you don’t have to learn, see, think, or feel from the side of nonwhites.

That is a privilege that you have that keeps you from different experiences. Your ego and pride clearly shows in your responses. You can try to deny it or rationalize it all you want. You can continue to demean us if that’s what you want, but it just shows your closed-mindedness.
on Thu 12 Jan 2012 at 23:15:59 brothawolf

When a person goes to Alcoholics Annonymous, one of the first things they do is stand up and say, “Hi, I am so-and-so. I’m an alcholic.” The person humbly acknowledges his affliction. That individual may slip up, now and then, but at least he recognizes the problem and takes each day as he can.

You haven’t even entered the building yet, much less SERIOUSLY admit you have a problem.

That’s the point Dave Lister. You are so drunk and addicted to the privileges you have of being a white man in white dominated society, you don’t see it as a problem. You probably don’t even know you have privileges over other groups. When you realize that your whiteness and white privileges are actually hurting you and others, then it’s the first step towards opening your mind.

Thanks SomeGuy.
on Thu 12 Jan 2012 at 23:16:30 Dave Lister

sammy, when I say I don’t know I mean I don’t know the details. But then, if I said I knew you’d complain and now you complain because I said I don’t know. Nice logic there, bud. I didn’t live in the south, so I only know what I’ve read on that topic, and I’m glad it is no longer the case that seperate but equal is forced. On the NA case, I was out of the country for several years and I haven’t read anything in detail about what went on – and I assume you are referring to South Dakota.

“I very well understand that perhaps you never have had such experiences and regard them as fanciful story telling, but if so, then that is also part of the problem.”

Then you clearly haven’t been reading what I’ve written, because not once have I denied that such events have occurred and continue to occur in this country. Now why don’t you calm down, stop with the self-righteous angry man routine, and go back and find all the places where I have accepted that this country is far from perfect. Here’s a hint: I know it’s very far from perfect and that racially motivated killing and oppression still occur. When you get that in your head, come back and tell me where it was that I’ve ever said that a particular such event never happened.

As before, you ARE left with strawmen.
on Thu 12 Jan 2012 at 23:24:28 Dave Lister

Your “sound reasons” brothawolf, don’t pass the smell test for reason at all. So far of the posters here only one is less rational than your posts, and I haven’t seen he/she post in a while and I’ve purposely avoided commenting on other threads. As far as childish insults are concerned, remove the beam in your eye pal.

Frankly at this point the nonsense has gotten repetitive. You want to persist in your myth and I refuse to adopt it. I guess I’ll stay drunk on my white power in a town pretty much dominated by Mexicans and let you do deal with you. We’ll see how it works out for you.

Nom de plume, to overcome a problem there must be a problem, it must be recognized, and a solution must be formulated. Apparently the solution part eludes everyone including those complaining here.

I will probably continue to lurk just for humor’s sake.
on Fri 13 Jan 2012 at 22:29:00 Tyrone

Abagond:

We live in the real world, not disneyland. White folk gotta let “The Wizard of Oz” stuff rest in peace. Black people have tongue, Will Speak With Passion!!!

Tyrone
Black Eros
on Fri 13 Jan 2012 at 23:15:12 brothawolf

Dave Lister,

You said my reasons are not sound, but yet, you haven’t shown why or how. At this point, I tire of this back-and-forth with someone who proves what I’m saying not only about him, but other people who think like him.
on Fri 13 Jan 2012 at 23:17:05 brothawolf

Still, Dave Lister, why are my reasons not sound and yours are?
on Sat 14 Jan 2012 at 06:42:06 red river

I find some of the blogs on this site quite interesting. However I think there is too much emphasis on “black vs. white.” I’m not American, so I can’t really judge what it’s like for Americans…but I think Canada is pretty much the same and I’ve spent a lot of time in the states.

I think race relations in general have gone beyond black/white in the US.There are huge numbers of people from all over the world in particular the hispanic and asian population.

It is worth noting that while whites still have the vast majority of the population in the US, people of asian origin now have a higher median income, higher levels of education, and higher average IQ.

Take that for what it is. The fact is Asian people in North America (who have only lived here for max. 1 or 2 generations) seem to be surpassing both whites and blacks. And we’ve been here for hundreds of years! We’re spending too much on football, video games, and celebrities.
on Sat 14 Jan 2012 at 06:56:19 V-4

Actually I believe they have a higher income per household but that the thing is they have on a average a few more people living per household than white people do.

That they actually get under paid on average despite having notably better educations than their white counterparts.

I could be wrong here, I mean things could have changed since the last time I bothered to look these things up.
on Sat 14 Jan 2012 at 07:03:53 V-4

@Sam

Slavery may not have been the “only” reason for the civil war it was certainly the main one and the biggest, as specifically referenced by their leaders in speeches and several states who joined the South’s side.

Yes it was about states rights, the states right to own slaves.
on Sat 14 Jan 2012 at 07:22:07 Satanforce

I would save the Union. I would save it the shortest way under the Constitution. The sooner the national authority can be restored; the nearer the Union will be “the Union as it was.” If there be those who would not save the Union, unless they could at the same time save slavery, I do not agree with them. If there be those who would not save the Union unless they could at the same time destroy slavery, I do not agree with them. My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do less whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause. I shall try to correct errors when shown to be errors; and I shall adopt new views so fast as they shall appear to be true views.

http://showcase.netins.net/web/creative/lincoln/speeches/greeley.htm
on Sat 14 Jan 2012 at 10:16:31 al d

Why is it so hard for black people to accept that they are inferior i mean we are really giving you a favour to include you in the modern human category but since you haven’t had any civilization of worth whatsoever no scientist whatsoever no inventors you have absolutely contributed nothing to this world on the other hand everything you are enjoying in the modern world has been invented by Caucasians (and i don’t use the word white since a lot of people think race is about colour which it isn’t it is about the shape of the skull and people of European and middle eastern decent are considered Caucasian) and I mean every invention and amazing discoveries in science,art, music,literature from the ancient times, be it the Persian empire, Greece, Roman empire to the middle age empires of the holy Roman empire Ottoman empire to the renaissance age with great inventors such as Leonardo da Vinci up to the modern world with inventions such as auto mobile, air plane, modern machinery they have all been invented by Caucasians all three types be it Nordic(Germans, Dutch, Norwegians, Swedish etc.),alpine(Russians, Swiss, etc..) or Mediterranean(Italians, Spanish, Greek, French, Persians etc..) we have proved ourselves to be the most advanced human beings, I mean you people could have achieved these as well but that’s how nature is some become smarter and more creative and others don’t and it’s nothing to get upset about it is just how nature works, you don’t see a baboon complaining about not being as smart as a chimpanzee haha, but that’s how evolution is we Caucasians have evolved more than others from our ancestor Australopithecus which closely resembles modern chimpanzee. By the way have you ever wondered why blacks look very similar to chimpanzees and have achieved the least and why Caucasians look the least like chimpanzees and have achieved the most, it give you something to think about. You people even comparing yourselves to us is pathetic in the least.
on Sat 14 Jan 2012 at 12:31:15 Demerera

@al d

Apart from the embarrasingly inarticulate diatribe, littered with gramatical and punctuation errors what have YOU specifically done that has contributed to the greatness of the white race?

Meanwhile ts all very well hanging on to the coat- tails of some of the innovative pioneers of the past and present but, it is always amusing when people like yourself come on to blogs like this. You try to take credit for it your self whilst deliberately ignoring that cyclical events i.e. the origins (defintately not always ‘white’), the evolution of (certainly not always ‘white) that take place in the development of any invention. By the same token its not ‘always’ POC either but, a fusion of and a combination of both but hey, I guess your history books didnt tell you that did they.

You people even comparing yourselves to us is pathetic in the least.
It is you that is doing all the comparisons, and statements such as you don’t see a baboon complaining about not being as smart as a chimpanzee haha, demonstrate how smart and knowledgeable you are – you must really make the white race proud *rolls eyes*

Anyway, i’m sure your post will evoke some emotional responses out there,buckets of tears….of laughter.
on Sat 14 Jan 2012 at 13:43:32 Matari

@ Demerera

Isn’t it interesting how these silly types of “Caucasians” trolls latch onto certain accomplishments of others? Yet they never seem to claim the other type of accomplishment – 500 years worth of ATROCITIES visited upon POC by folks who classify themselves as white.

These “proud” people want to claim the glorious past, but not the bad and the ugly past.
Why not??
on Sat 14 Jan 2012 at 16:21:44 Nom De Plume

@anyone:

I not going to engage “al d” directly. It’s impossible to reason with this kind of “logic.” I will say that I’m glad he posted. It serves a purpose. It plays into what some have been discussing on so many of these threads. I especially enjoyed the monkey references. Lovely.
on Sat 14 Jan 2012 at 17:31:00 Herneith

http://abagond.wordpress.com/2009/11/06/the-white-inventor-argument/

http://abagond.wordpress.com/2009/02/25/black-people-as-monkeys/
on Sat 14 Jan 2012 at 18:10:47 Demerera

@Matari

I always get the sense that the ones who post most about the achievments and accomplisments of people of a bygone era and lamenting about how they were responsible worldwide for creating civilisation, are the ones who are ‘reaching’ to find some pride that they can attribute to themselves in day to day life.

In other words, they feel that have no relevance or significance in day to day life so, they tread on the ones they feel can elevate them.

the people who post on here in this vane are like a broken flippin record *sigh*
on Sat 14 Jan 2012 at 19:46:13 SomeGuy

I find it amusing that many deluded White people believe that every single invention they see around them was created by them.
on Sun 15 Jan 2012 at 00:03:46 brothawolf

Demerera,

It’s a complex they have. Behind the computers, they have no life. They have nothing going on for them. They are bitter, and they are not too bright. The only thing they have going for them is their pale skin. So, they will project their shortcomings and faults onto black people to make themselves feel better.

Also, we have to realize that some of them are indeed a lost cause, online at least. They need to see a psychiatrist, but instead they get therapy from the internet.
on Sun 15 Jan 2012 at 00:05:44 brothawolf

Nom De Plume,

It’s amazing when they try to argue against you, they always prove your point. I always thank these people for proving my cases for me.
on Sun 15 Jan 2012 at 00:12:02 sam

Being a white guy myself I find it extremely funny when ever some one starts to rant about the glorius history of the “Caucasians” and include themselves in to that imaginary “race”. There is something so pathetic in it.

@brothawolf: “They need to see a psychiatrist, but instead they get therapy from the internet.” Very much indeed.
on Sun 15 Jan 2012 at 04:54:26 V-4

@ Satanforce

Missippi:

In the momentous step which our State [Mississippi] has taken of dissolving its connection with the government of which we so long formed a part, it is but just that we should declare the prominent reasons which have induced our course.

Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery– the greatest material interest of the world.

Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin.

Jefferson Davis:

..if I had not believed there was justifiable cause; if I had thought that Mississippi was acting without sufficient provocation, or without an existing necessity, I should still… because of my allegiance to the State… have been bound by her action. I, however, may be permitted to say that I do think she has justifiable cause, and I approve of her act.

I conferred with her people before that act was taken, counseled them then that if the state of things which they apprehended should exist when the convention met, they should take the action which they have now adopted…

It has been a conviction of pressing necessity, it has been a belief that we are to be deprived in the Union of the rights which our fathers bequeathed to us, which has brought Mississippi into her present decision. She has heard proclaimed the theory that all men are created free and equal, and this made the basis of an attack upon her social institutions [i.e., slavery]; and the sacred Declaration of Independence has been invoked to maintain the position of the equality of the races.

Cornerstone Speech:

But not to be tedious in enumerating the numerous changes for the better, allow me to allude to one other though last, not least. The new constitution has put at rest, forever, all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institution African slavery as it exists amongst us the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution.

[Thomas] Jefferson in his forecast, had anticipated this [slavery], as the “rock upon which the old Union would split.” He was right. What was conjecture with him, is now a realized fact. But whether he fully comprehended the great truth upon which that rock stood and stands, may be doubted. The prevailing ideas entertained by him and most of the leading statesmen at the time of the formation of the old constitution, were that the enslavement of the African was in violation of the laws of nature; that it was wrong in principle, socially, morally, and politically. It was an evil they knew not well how to deal with, but the general opinion of the men of that day was that, somehow or other in the order of Providence, the institution would be evanescent and pass away. This idea, though not incorporated in the constitution, was the prevailing idea at that time. The constitution, it is true, secured every essential guarantee to the institution while it should last, and hence no argument can be justly urged against the constitutional guarantees thus secured, because of the common sentiment of the day.

Those ideas, however, were fundamentally wrong. They rested upon the assumption of the equality of races. This was an error. It was a sandy foundation, and the government built upon it fell when the “storm came and the wind blew.”

Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth.

This truth has been slow in the process of its development, like all other truths in the various departments of science. It has been so even amongst us. Many who hear me, perhaps, can recollect well, that this truth was not generally admitted, even within their day. The errors of the past generation still clung to many as late as twenty years ago. Those at the North, who still cling to these errors, with a zeal above knowledge, we justly denominate fanatics. All fanaticism springs from an aberration of the mind from a defect in reasoning. It is a species of insanity. One of the most striking characteristics of insanity, in many instances, is forming correct conclusions from fancied or erroneous premises; so with the anti-slavery fanatics. Their conclusions are right if their premises were. They assume that the negro is equal, and hence conclude that he is entitled to equal privileges and rights with the white man. If their premises were correct, their conclusions would be logical and just but their premise being wrong, their whole argument fails.

I recollect once of having heard a gentleman from one of the northern States, of great power and ability, announce in the House of Representatives, with imposing effect, that we of the South would be compelled, ultimately, to yield upon this subject of slavery, that it was as impossible to war successfully against a principle in politics, as it was in physics or mechanics. That the principle would ultimately prevail. That we, in maintaining slavery as it exists with us, were warring against a principle, a principle founded in nature, the principle of the equality of men.

The reply I made to him was, that upon his own grounds, we should, ultimately, succeed, and that he and his associates, in this crusade against our institutions, would ultimately fail. The truth announced, that it was as impossible to war successfully against a principle in politics as it was in physics and mechanics, I admitted; but told him that it was he, and those acting with him, who were warring against a principle. They were attempting to make things equal which the Creator had made unequal.
on Sun 15 Jan 2012 at 22:51:52 Satanforce

@ V-4.

Thanks.
on Mon 23 Jan 2012 at 02:30:05 Stetson

I think moral absolutism in storytelling is fairly common in all cultures. People like to identify with good people, and watch bad people be cast down.

I’m not complaining, though. This was a great post.
on Wed 8 Feb 2012 at 23:09:45 Sandwich

Stupid post and stupid conversation that followed.

I can offer a much more realistic reason why many whites dislike blacks, or at least don’t want to live with them and finance them. (note that most “white supremacists” don’t necessarily hate blacks)

The main issues:

1. Crime
2. Low average IQ

So instead of continuing this ridiculous discussion of the obscure roots of racism, look this stuff up. The average black IQ in the USA is 85, and cutting edge genetic and neuroscience produces overwhelming evidence that IQ is genetic (i.e. it can’t be changed).

And just look at prisons. Before somebody thinks it, crime isn’t because of poverty – there are far more poor white people than there are poor black people but the prisons are full of blacks.
on Wed 8 Feb 2012 at 23:17:04 V-4

@Sandwich

Well; part of why prisons are full of black people is racism, put it this way there are around 6 times as many white drug dealers and users as black people.

Because there is about that many times more white people than black people and races on a whole in the US more or less have the same amount of drug usage as one another.

So if 6x as many white people use and sell drugs as black people than how come 50% of people in jail on drug charges are black?

We know thats not accurate for their involvement in the drug trade or use of drugs and we know thats inaccurate towards their purportions in the US?
on Tue 14 Feb 2012 at 11:02:16 Ajahamza

@ sandwish

Far from the modern conservative utopia of a “colour-blind society,” Euro-centric racial chauvinism seems to rear its ugly head. You are just one of a whole generation of whites who will continue to peddle notions of black intellectual inferiority.

It is possible that some day the white race may be able to look at people of different races and see them as human beings without losing sight of what is special and unique about racial or ethnic membership?
on Mon 19 Mar 2012 at 12:36:00 teddy1975

@V-4, recent research in the Netherlands showed that people who looked “Not-Dutch” had a chance about 5 times greater than the non-migrant natives, to get a verdict involving jail time, and people who did not speak the lingo well about 4 times greater. Reasons are not very clear, but it was suggested that court was less willing to try alternative punishment, you know forced labour in liberty and such, with people who might be harder to communicate with.

If Euro-Americans see Afro-Americans as foreigners, something like that may be going on.
on Sat 24 Mar 2012 at 12:54:28 jcr1

Its fair to say that the black population of this world are in a disadvantaged position currently, and those facts must be respected. However, I feel this ‘blame game’ towards whites has gone out of hand and finger pointing from a black perspective is the order of the day, if not the only order of the day.

Lets call a spade a spade without any emotional connotation.

Since the black american aqcuired more ‘human rights’ in the public sphere they are more vocal towards the wrong doings of the white man, than having a faint idea about their own wrong doing and where it all started. Going back to the early 1200s, when african slave trading were strive amongst the arabian/islam community, those very chiefs of their respective clans had very little respect for their own community and were much worried about their own level of wealth and popularity. Its a given fact that those chiefs sold their own people towards enslavery, not by force, but by will. It is only in the 15 -1600s when the euro community became accustomed to the idea and participated.

Looking back at that alone, does it not give one a sense of human abuse from one black man over another black man? Wher is the respect in that considering the modern black mans cry for more respect? If my mother was to pimp me for money in order to finance her lifestyle, do you ever think those i’m pimped to will respect me? I’ll leave that to you.

Also some comments her relates to the fear whites have of black, does that mean the arabians are also fearful of the black man as the main ideology of black enslavement lies with them? Not sure about that. There are comments about white superiority, white racism etc etc. Apologies, in greater world history racial superiority has always been very visible amongst on racial cast over another one. The famous Ghandi believe that Indians should not live amongst blacks during the South African aparheid years as indians a culturally and racially more superior than blacks. Till today the chinese sees blacks as inferior, but in the same sentence the euro community too. So what is the issue her? Is there a level of insecurity amongst blacks. Do they need to use the blame culture to find some ideological culture. If I ask the average black american what he thinks needs to be done in africa, the continent of his roots, the general response I get is hmmmmm, then he finds a way back to blaming.

Many of you commenting on this post don’t even have the faintest idea on the history of africa.

I see some making comments; white superior men raping black inferior women. But yet forgetting that the black alpha male man does the same. Is it not wrong irrespective of whether it is white over black or black over black?

Coming back to the African landscape and that of the tribal system, if malcolm x had to live during the 1200s, wheb slave trading was strive and accepted by the african chiefs, would he have spoken out against his own ‘brother’? Well if he did, let me tell you, the chief would not have thought twice to have him killed. Believe me, no one questions the african chief.

But yet malcolm x had a voice against white oppression.

In fair history, the african clans also oppressed. Now taking into consideration that the khoisan people of africa are the true african sons. Humanities genes comes from these people, not the black africans. African clans oppressed the khoisan, the khoisan was a graceful people. Not following the paths of war,peaceful in themselves and their culture. The khoisan has been present on the african continent from more than 30 000bc. Up till today the back african will not acknowledge this. How many african americans even know about the khoisan? Yet following blame culture as the only way to find meaning is the order of the day.

Now don’t get me wrong. I find many faults with the white man. His ways and doings. But one thing i can say is that what happened was a clear indication of what humanity should not do. Is there not a lesson learned? Why blame, try to find ways of breaking down another person for wrongdoings if we can start living lives promoting racial equality. Is this not the path of perfecting humanity?
on Sun 25 Mar 2012 at 07:35:30 Jimbo

I think it’s because some believe they steal, murder, rape, make a mess, involved in crime, are loud, obtain low education results, are noisy, arrogant, aggressive, have a victim mentality, want everything for nothing, can’t think for themselves, aren’t inventive, use the race card when they fail, feel whites owe them forever because of slavery but won’t acknowlede that their own people enslaved them and never look to the Arabs for their involvement, can’t seem to advance themselves without white assistance etc. This is certainly not my own feelings but feel this about sums up a lot of (some) white people’s feelings.
on Sun 25 Mar 2012 at 09:04:32 darqbeauty

Jimbo, they are your feelings.

To everyone else :

Here we have a textbook study. He spouts everything from the Arab trader argument to race cards to slavery. Observe, and take notes. We have a real live breathing specimen that encompasses everything Abagond has painstakingly documented in racist white pathology.
on Wed 28 Mar 2012 at 21:23:21 flipperd1@yahoo.com

now white people has passed on the hatred and racism to other people of non color ,the dominicans,puerto ricans ,mexicans,jews,and any other people of non color i live in new york if you are black in new york you can hang it up every race is out to destroy black people ,police only lock up black people.in the boro of manhattan ,from 125st down is 95 percent white but the arrest are 97 percent black go figure anything to keep black people down .i one never hated no one until now.white, puerto ricans,dominicans,mexicans kill them all and let god sort it out.
on Wed 28 Mar 2012 at 22:45:24 dennis

this to the racist al d your day will come and i hope im there to watch you beg ,
on Tue 3 Apr 2012 at 19:17:05 Mary

I think you should be asking the real question: Why do blacks hate whites?
on Tue 3 Apr 2012 at 19:25:16 Demerera

@Mary

I think you should be asking the real question: Why do blacks hate whites?

Care to enlighten us on your theory on this?
on Tue 3 Apr 2012 at 19:38:45 destructure

V-4

Well; part of why prisons are full of black people is racism, put it this way there are around 6 times as many white drug dealers and users as black people.

There are probably more white drug users than black. But I doubt there are more white drug dealers. Gangs are a major indicator of drug distribution. That’s one of the main reasons gangs exist. And there is very little white gang activity.

The reason there appears to be a disproportionate number of blacks in prison for drug use is because most blacks arrested for drug dealing take a plea bargain. DA’s offer them a lower charge in return for pleading guilty and a quick resolution. They just don’t have the time to take every drug dealer to court for a long drawn out trial. They similarly offer drug users a deal in exchange for a quick resolution. Most people arrested for simple drug possession get a simple fine. They don’t go to prison regardless of race.
on Tue 3 Apr 2012 at 19:39:54 Bliff

@Jimbo

I second his post. It’s a pretty good description of how blacks look like to whites. This is all the stuff they want to deny, butjust keep on repeating the mantra that whites are “racist, racist, racist”.

To you Abagondites….what would happen if you put all the whites in railroad cars and shipped us off to the Sonora desert for some ‘racism deprogramming’ by some old hippies and Black Panthers?

We would come back ‘deprogrammed’, but blacks’ lives would continue as it is. I guess us whites would have been brainwashed just not to say anything.
on Fri 13 Apr 2012 at 18:26:33 Kathy

I think anyone who judges a person on the basis of race is lacking something in their own character. I think we need to stop dividing and separating ourselves and start thinking of ourselves as one species of infinite variation. I’m of
Scottish/Irish decent, but I respect all people of integrity. That’s what it’s all about–what a person is on the inside. And we’re all basically the same–looking for love and safety. None of the white people I know hate blacks, because I don’t associate with bigots.
on Sat 14 Apr 2012 at 20:46:23 Grayson

I have no problem with black people as a race. I live in Augusta and go to a good highschool where it’s maybe 65% W, 30% B, and 5% other races. I usually get along with everyone and dated two black girls, but I always avoid people who are “sketchy” or “shady” regardless of color. I can admit that most of the time that it is black people, but it isn’t exclusive to them, not at all. I would be afraid to be approached by a tall, black kid at night and would be just as afraid to be approached by a big, white kid.
on Sat 14 Apr 2012 at 22:01:14 grin and bear it

And there is very little white gang activity.

As is so evinced by the Russian, Italian, Irish, Jewish, Albanian, Greek, Polish, etc. mobs, the KKK, Aryan Nations, Hell’s Angels, Blood and Honor, various Christian Identity groups, etc. Not to mention HSBC, Enron, and various other white collar crime syndicates. Some might even include the CIA since they’re known for drug running, weapons dealing, assassinations, etc.
on Sat 14 Apr 2012 at 22:42:32 Mary

“As is so evinced by blah, blah, blah.” All of those groups are in the PAST. Show me a white gang of today whose goal is to specifically target Blacks.

How about trying it this way: “And there is very little BLACK gang activity”
As is so evinced by the black flash mobs of the past summer, yelling “kill Whitey”, Blacks breaking into a water park to terrorize customers; shootings on the Coney Island Boardwalk, and Miami during Urban Weekend. I could go on and on and on. You need more?

As for the CIA, look up Eric Holder’s Fast and Furious disaster. Mr. Holder was black the last time I checked.

You are so tied to the past, you’re not paying attention to the present.
on Sat 14 Apr 2012 at 23:28:14 grin and bear it

Typical selective outrage when someone points out how not so perfect white people are. First off, Eric Holder is head of the DOJ, not the CIA, which is an independent agency of the federal government, and existed long before Holder got to Washington. “Past summer” is also in the “past,” last time I checked. Additionally, no one said anything about “killing whitey,” or a dearth of “black gang activity.”

Upthread, destructure asserted that drug distribution was a purveyor of gang activity, then, incorrectly, noted that there were no white gangs. I merely pointed out the fallacy of his statement by citing some of the better known white gangs and criminal enterprises, most of which participate in/or have participated in the trafficking of drugs/illegal substances, and are current in their activities.
on Sun 15 Apr 2012 at 00:23:50 grin and bear it

And you are in such denial of the past, your vision of the present is warped and clouded. So much so, apparently, that it affects your reading comprehension. Where in my post did I say anything about white gangs targeting blacks? Yes, in fact, many of them do (and yes they do still exist, according to the FBI and the Southern Poverty Law Center), but that’s not what I said.

Upthread, destructure asserted

Gangs are a major indicator of drug distribution. That’s one of the main reasons gangs exist. And there is very little white gang activity.

To which I pointed out the (CURRENT) existence of various “white” gangs, most of whom participate in unsavory activities, such as trafficking in illegal substances, to $upport their “organizations.”

The operations of the CIA (and, to concede your point, the ATF, which falls under jurisdiction of the DOJ) pre-date Holder’s tenure as AG. Their “methods” have been known for several decades. Holder didn’t invent those tactics, nor will they cease once he leaves office. And, frankly, it’s something we should all be concerned with.

It’s amazing how white racists are so quick to excuse and overlook the evils perpetrated by white people just so they can direct a magnifying glass over black behaviors, as if that’s going to somehow conceal the stench of their own sh!t.
on Sun 15 Apr 2012 at 07:41:17 Mary

For years you’ve very cleverly thrown out, “You’re a racist,” and white people would bend over backwards to prove that they weren’t. You could call them practically anything, but don’t call them a racist. That was like the kiss of death to a white person, putting them down the walk of shame. But with the election of Mr. Obama, the white community breathed a big sigh of relief. They voted for him to prove to themselves that, “See, we’re really not racists.” It might seem simplistic, but after years of being called evil white racists, when we knew we weren’t, it was like a burden was lifted off of our shoulders. So you can call me a racist till the cows come home, but my fear of that word has been ameliorated. If you want to keep calling me that, knock yourself out. It’s almost a joke anymore.

On the other hand, my fear of you is very real. It’s obvious that you’re filled with hate. So my original question still stands: Why do black people hate white people?

You know, not everyone likes nor gets along with everyone. That’s a reality of life. Just look at family dynamics. We all have different personalities. I think you ought to take into consideration that when a white person doesn’t like you, it’s probably not because you’re black, but it’s because they just don’t like you. That does happen, you know. But if you believe that there’s a big white conspiracy to keep the black people down, you’ll never see anything beyond that.
on Sun 15 Apr 2012 at 09:09:52 brothawolf

@Mary

How about trying it this way: “And there is very little BLACK gang activity”
As is so evinced by the black flash mobs of the past summer, yelling “kill Whitey”, Blacks breaking into a water park to terrorize customers; shootings on the Coney Island Boardwalk, and Miami during Urban Weekend. I could go on and on and on. You need more?

If you rely on the news, then yes, it would appear that black people across the country are going out of control. However, the news, like the rest of the media doesn’t portray black people in a balanced, non-racially biased way. Those black people who did those crimes as you’ve noted are a minority. Most of us are not like that, or are you more willing to believe what the idiot box tells you as opposed to real black people?

As for the CIA, look up Eric Holder’s Fast and Furious disaster. Mr. Holder was black the last time I checked.

Oh. Case closed. He’s black and as such, he’s a screw-up, and the only screw-up. Don’t make me laugh.

You are so tied to the past, you’re not paying attention to the present.

And you are afraid of the past so much you can not possibility see how it connects to the present. That is common knowledge whether you like it or not.

For years you’ve very cleverly thrown out, “You’re a racist,” and white people would bend over backwards to prove that they weren’t. You could call them practically anything, but don’t call them a racist. That was like the kiss of death to a white person, putting them down the walk of shame. But with the election of Mr. Obama, the white community breathed a big sigh of relief. They voted for him to prove to themselves that, “See, we’re really not racists.” It might seem simplistic, but after years of being called evil white racists, when we knew we weren’t, it was like a burden was lifted off of our shoulders. So you can call me a racist till the cows come home, but my fear of that word has been ameliorated. If you want to keep calling me that, knock yourself out. It’s almost a joke anymore.

Many white people didn’t give a fuck to try and prove themselves to anyone, but many blacks have always, ALWAYS tried to prove that they are not a race of unintelligent lazy savages who rob people and rape women. Still, that didn’t matter to people like you because as long as there is just one black person fitting that stereotype, you white asses were happy as hell.

Oh yeah. It was simple as voting a black man in office to prove you’re not racist. That’s the lamest excuse to date.

Here’s the real deal, you, as an individual, has helped to prove that nothing’s changed. You try to argue that white’s aren’t racist, but yet, you show off your racist mindset. That is a contradictory statement in on itself.

Many whites are still programmed with that racist mindset. They’re just too damn scared to admit it. They’re too frightened to look at themselves in the mirror and examine and correct their flaws which include bigotry and prejudice.

So, what do they do instead? Project. Scapegoat. Make up lies. That is the meaning of mental and moral malfunctions.

On the other hand, my fear of you is very real. It’s obvious that you’re filled with hate. So my original question still stands: Why do black people hate white people?

You know, not everyone likes nor gets along with everyone. That’s a reality of life. Just look at family dynamics. We all have different personalities. I think you ought to take into consideration that when a white person doesn’t like you, it’s probably not because you’re black, but it’s because they just don’t like you. That does happen, you know. But if you believe that there’s a big white conspiracy to keep the black people down, you’ll never see anything beyond that.

We all are smart enough that everyone doesn’t get along with everyone, but some cases are unique if not totally stupid. Some people dislike others because of their skin color. That’s it. And it’s time you and other people understand that simple fact. And before you try to turn it around and make it a “black” problem, let me stop you right there. The problem is that many whites are too blind to see that they are the ones with problems, and you fit that bill, Mary.

And if you continue to deny that it’s the system of white supremacy and racism that is keeping many blacks down, then you will never learn a damn thing. It is the truth. Just because you disagree, can not, or will not see it doesn’t make it any less true, just like rich black folks do not cancel out the rule.

In the end why not examine your own problems before you tell us about ours as if you know better. You certainly do not know better unless you shut up and listen and not judge. That is the only way your mind will evolve if you let it. But something tells me that you won’t being knowledgeable about black people using the news as reliable sources and all.

*thinks to himself* There must be a factory somewhere cranking these people out.
on Sun 15 Apr 2012 at 11:42:12 Tawana

First of all my name is Horrez White and i would like to say hi to everyone before i go any further and also i would like to say that what i am about to say is my opinion and how i feel so please do not get offended. My belief as to why i think some white people demonize,hate and fear people of color is because of guilt,jealousy and self hate. Why i say this is because to hate a race of people that has done nothing to them clearly shows me a great deal of self hatred because how you view others reflects on how you view yourself. Another thing a constant reminder to say the n word,paint an unfair picture of people of color and to constantly try to dehumanize people of color clearly shows me a great deal of jealousy.Its almost like when a friend or coworker talks badly about another coworker every time she see’s the coworker and for no reason at all but out of her own personal reasons which is a sign of jealousy.I think fear that white people have for people of color goes back to what i said guilt”..Nothing but fear of the unknown for what was done in the past and how it was done, yet looking at black men and how strong they are, and at how much strength they have some white people get and really feel intimidated by this.I believe these type of white people just hate themselves ,are selfish and full of self hatred.I believe that there are a lot of white people that wish they were black and the white women just love black men.I see it every day.
on Sun 15 Apr 2012 at 11:55:48 Matari

“*thinks to himself* There must be a factory somewhere cranking these people out.”

*************

There is BrothaWolf.
The factory is known as the United States of America.
Its largest product/export are millions of deluded/clueless racists suffering from the insanity of the WRF (white racial frame). For those unfamiliar with the term there’s wiki …
on Sun 15 Apr 2012 at 11:57:44 B. R.

co sign Brothawolf , Grin and bear it, Tawana

“I would be afraid to be approached by a tall, black kid at night and would be just as afraid to be approached by a big, white kid.”

Grayson, that is kind of the right idea
on Sun 15 Apr 2012 at 11:59:11 B. R.

Matari, your post came in while Im writing, co sign with you too
on Tue 8 May 2012 at 03:16:26 Nick T

Help me not be racist. Here is why I think I am.
Three people in my life have been murdered, all by blacks.
My house has been broken into twice, once by blacks-confirmed, the other time, blacks were convicted for breaking into houses in my neighborhood, so I think it is safe to assume they broke into mine too.
I have been mugged once, by a black.
My car has been broken into maybe 8 times in my life, no I don’t know who did it, but the more blacks moved into the neighborhood, the more frequent it became until I moved.
From my business—– probably 75% of customer theft is by blacks, and
about 90% of employee theft is by blacks.
After 40+ years on this planet, no whites have murdered anyone I know, no whites have broken into my house (pretty damn sure) never been mugged by a white, etc.
What do I do?
I do not discriminate, but I do think I am racist. I think the black race commits more crime than any other. I do not like that. I have mostly black friends ( I know its a cliche to say that) but I do distance myself from getting to close to them. I get invited to parties or church, but I will not go with them. Mostly because I don’t want to be a part of that culture.
Don’t hate me.
on Tue 8 May 2012 at 03:26:05 Ace

@ Nick T,

Then remember that whites commit more crime than any other group due to sheer numbers, whites commit more serial numbers, rapes, and drug offenses due to sheer numbers, and remember that none of this means a thing about the race of the person.

remember that the actions of a person are what they should be held accountable for, not their skin color.

If you know nothing of the culture, don’t be so quick to equate it to violence because of what you claim happened to you in your life. Because remember that black people have had just as many terrible things done to them by white people. And yet they think your worth reaching out to, despite your obvious racist attitudes. If they can do that for you, then you should at least be able to do that for them and be honest with them.

They aren’t your “black friends” if you are going to hold them responsible for the actions of some alleged black people. Especially when they likely have a lifetime of reasons to not reach out to white people and yet are willing to invite you into their circle.
on Tue 8 May 2012 at 05:41:46 brothawolf

@Ace

This is assuming that all those things really happened to NickT.
on Tue 8 May 2012 at 06:21:18 Ace

@ Brothawolf,

Good catch there.

They do seem a bit exaggerated.
on Tue 8 May 2012 at 14:02:16 cleonette

I am wondering what kind of neighborhood he lived in to have come in contact with so many black criminals. I grew up in an area with 86% black people and never had all of that happen to me. Amazing! Could it perhaps have been the same person targeting him? How are you going to say you have “black friends” and you are not close to them. They are just people you know who happen to be black. Just wow.

Also, were any of these people caught? You said you knew they were black, so there were witnesses to the crime? What happened? When were you mugged? I didn’t even know people still mugged people. I thought that was just something that happened on TV and in parks, at midnight, in the city.

At least you admit that you are racist. Only a racist would conclude that skin color is a indication of criminality/violence.
on Sat 12 May 2012 at 01:21:35 Judgementalist

I bet I can find a blog about how blacks are racist towards whites. It turns my stomach to use such broad terms, because identifying people based on groups is a sick, vicious cycle that encourages delusion and posturing, and attacks logic.
on Sat 12 May 2012 at 02:55:16 Matari

“I bet I can find a blog about how blacks are racist towards whites. It turns my stomach to use such broad terms, because identifying people based on groups is a sick, vicious cycle that encourages delusion and posturing, and attacks logic.”

******

– Judge

Ever heard of this old Internet cliche?

“Never underestimate the POWER of stupid people in large groups!”
Especially when that GROUP has been in POWER for hundreds of years.

And yes, you’re right about delusions (of grandeur). The largest group in America seems to be more given over to viciousness and posturing than any other group in the world, and they use “logic” to justify that.

Isnit sad??
on Sat 12 May 2012 at 03:11:34 brothawolf

cleonette,

That’s why I suspect NickT’s comment. It seems highly exaggerated that he came across so many black criminals in his lifetime.

It’s ridiculous to think that criminality is synonymous with black culture as Nick pointed out in his comment. Even though he admitted he is a racist, it’s still preposterous to equate blackness with criminality. Then again, in this nation it’s as American as apple pie. The most disadvantaged and marginalized groups are often the ones most likely to be criminalized. Blacks in America have always been the scapegoat of so many problems in this society. However, rich whites are more likely to be seen as true examples of the American Dream who deserve protection and unrelenting respect.

I also want to suspect that Nick may have made this up, the Phantom Black Man/Woman Syndrome. He may have made up those incidents to try to validate his hatred towards an entire group of people and gain some sympathy. Something seriously tells me that no white person on Earth has had that much bad luck from blacks. But what’s really telling is this:

“After 40+ years on this planet, no whites have murdered anyone I know, no whites have broken into my house (pretty damn sure) never been mugged by a white, etc.”

Here, we see white people as incapable of being as criminal minded or violent compared to blacks. The thing is, even if this sentence is true, there are countless other whites who have been murdered, robbed, and mugged by other whites. Just because his family hasn’t been victimized by other whites, doesn’t mean that whites as a whole don’t harm each other.

For example, I knew a white woman who told me that she was gang raped by a group of white men. (Amazingly, this never made the news.) So, she definitely has been a victim of white-on-white violence.

Also, a couple of weekends ago, two white men committed an armed robbery at a local store.

Still, those two examples are nothing compared to the worst atrocities caused by white men.
on Sat 12 May 2012 at 03:12:47 brothawolf

Judge,

I already have three blogs in mind: Unamused, GLPiggy, and D-Structure.
on Sat 12 May 2012 at 20:41:44 Sharina

As I was sitting here reading this post the first thing that came to mind is bullies. In most situations bullying is the result of a narcissistic person with many insecurities that find some sick pleasure in making someone else life feel like crap in order to make themselves feel better. They hold on to lies and many facades for comfort.

I thought about this in this manner a while back when I was wondering why racist whites hate black. After reading a lot of these comments it is sad that it is not obvious to them. If what was said was not true why get upset, there would be no point in it if it does not apply to you.
on Sat 12 May 2012 at 23:35:55 SW6

NickT was a bad joke from the start! You can see it.

“Help me not be racist.” and at the end “Don’t hate me.” What is he, a six year old?
And in the middle a bunch of text that places the burden on blacks to pull him back from the brink of racism, because it’s not his own responsibility to do something about his own nascent racism. Then in the last paragraph a scenario of blacks who are already inviting him to things but he’s ever so distant. In this respect his whole comment was a weird self reference to a bizarre fantasy where Nick is aloof from blacks who try to reach out to him. See the first paragraph in the link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-reference

Who talks like an infant, yet has an image of Tesla for their icon? Who talks like an infant when they see something ugly developing in their psyche?
I think NickT was just someone planting junk on the blog for amusement.
on Sun 13 May 2012 at 00:00:05 Sharina

@ Mary

“Why do black people hate white people? “—To answer your question I don’t hate whites. These post have been about white racists and believe me dear there is a difference. The problem is that many whites that come to these boards to protest don’t even realize there is a difference.

“I think you ought to take into consideration that when a white person doesn’t like you, it’s probably not because you’re black, but it’s because they just don’t like you.”—That does happen but everytime that happens (taking skin color out of the equation) it is usually the result of jealousy. I have been there before myself. I was jealous of this other black girl mainly because she had everything I thought I wanted. Little did I know she was jealous of me because she thought I had everything she wanted. We talked about each other and did not like each other. I had to do some soul searching. In most cases people don’t really know what they are jealous about because they do convince themselves they have nothing to be jealous of. Rule of thumb usually is if you like someone for no reason at all. You have not one reason, then it is usually some type of jealousy
on Mon 14 May 2012 at 22:09:10 Dana

“That’s why I suspect NickT’s comment. It seems highly exaggerated that he came across so many black criminals in his lifetime.”

And if he were black writing stereotyped stuff about whites (or asians for that matter, or jews, gays, etc) it would be okay right? How about the rights so many in the black community want to deny to gay people (including gay people of color?)

“At least you admit that you are racist. Only a racist would conclude that skin color is a indication of criminality/violence.”

followed by:

“Also, a couple of weekends ago, two white men committed an armed robbery at a local store.

Still, those two examples are nothing compared to the worst atrocities caused by white men.”

Hypocrisy.

Of there is white on white crime. So, where is the blog about black on black crime? Oh, write, it doesn’t happen I guess.

“I didn’t even know people still mugged people. I thought that was just something that happened on TV and in parks, at midnight, in the city.”

Seriously? Where do you live, under a rock?
on Mon 14 May 2012 at 22:57:10 Michelle

“we know that white people usually do not view people of color as fully human” and you wonder why people think you’re generalizing and saying “all”? Being biracial and gay, I have my own beef with this blog and the black community in general. How about you talk about the rampant homophobia and sexism in parts of the black community (the high black vote in CA that caused prop 8 to pass being an example)? Or how black churches (ironically using the white’s religion) speak out about and vote in blocs against GLBT people? Or the disproportionate number of GLBT people, white or black, and especially transgender, that are killed by black heterosupremacists? Why black gay/bi men have to be on the “down low” because they are so afraid of the reaction from their communities, of being told they’re “no longer black” , as happened to me and so many others? Unfortunately it seems being an oppressed group makes you more likely to oppress others when you have an advantage, not less, and as poc we need to admit that we are just as prone to that as the rest of humanity. White people got lucky with guns, germs, and steel and western europe grabbed the advantage. Would we have been any better in their shoes? Judging by how some of us treat women and gays, probably not. That is not to say that there isn’t plenty of homophobia and sexism in the white community. But at least it is talked about. Too often if any of us, white or black, mention anything about homophobia in communities of color, we’re told we’re racist and to shut up. Tracy Morgan and Roland Martin being good examples-there were a lot of excuses for their behavior and even accusations of racism (apparently not thinking GLBT folks are human is okay) There is such a thing as straight privilege and male privilege, and too often just like you feel that white people play down white privilege, I feel that some (notice, I won’t say all) POC who are straight and/or male pretend that neither of those give them any advantages. And they do, at least in certain circumstances. Even the worst white supremacist prefers a black hetero couple to a white gay one. Honestly I’ve been overall treated better by white liberals and white (and black) glbt people then by supposed “black liberals”. I’ve experienced a lot more homophobia in the black community than racism outside of it. People can be oppressed in some areas and have privilege in others. Being a member of a group privileged in one way doesn’t automatically equal privilege in everything, and it’s not fair to target innocent white GLBT people as some kind of “revenge” (I’ve seen it done). Bring up the word “gay” to some of the most “liberal” “godfearing” anti racists, both white and black, and watch the homophobia come out. It will be interesting to see how quickly the anti gay remarks spring up on this blog. Besides sexuality and gender, there are also things like disability, class, etc (I agree with that you said about voting against their own class as far as white people go). As a gay person who’s been harassed by angry poc coming out of a lesbian club late at night (it’s in a neightborhood where it’s not wanted, but it has a right to be there), I can tell you, the knife can cut both ways. When I, being biracial, responded with “as a person of color I would think you would know better than to treat others that way” I got accused of being racist! Being a poc does not give you the right to oppress others with any privildge you do hold (ex, heterosexuality). It would be nice if other kind of oppression were addressed more (across all races, heterosuprmecay and gender affects poc too, they are often treated horribly by their own communities). That’s why I no longer hang out in black religious communities and most black communities I do hang out are for GLBT people. I’ve also been overall well accepted into the lesbian community by people of all colors. I’m barely accepted otherwise. Acting like the oppressor doesn’t make you free. It only makes you another oppressor.
on Tue 15 May 2012 at 01:52:07 Herneith

Here we go!
on Tue 15 May 2012 at 01:55:52 Sharina

@ Michelle

Can’t say I agree with you in that regard. I live in an agree where gay men and women are openly accepted. I have always welcomed GLBT in my life. Not only because of gay male relatives, but because of the massive injustice they receive. I did a speech in regards to GLBT mistreatment in my college speech class and you would not believe the remarks I received from the white students. They automatically rated my speech as bad. The other black students like my speech and accepted it for what it is work.

My experience is different from yours based on area, but for many people in this room it does not matter what area they are in it is a 9 times out of 10 that they will be treated badly by whites no matter if they are heterosexual or not. They have are black.

Also they are referring to racist whites not all whites.
on Tue 15 May 2012 at 02:08:46 Sharina

@ Dana

“And if he were black writing stereotyped stuff about whites (or asians for that matter, or jews, gays, etc) it would be okay right? How about the rights so many in the black community want to deny to gay people (including gay people of color?)”—Asians are included in people of color and guess what we are not referring to all whites in here (at least I am not). The blog is about racist whites for the most part. As for gays then who in here mentioned they did not like gays or lesbians. Did I miss something or are you on an off topic rant?

“Seriously? Where do you live, under a rock?”—One thing you fail to realize is people live in different area. What you experience may not even happen where they live. I for one have not experienced a mugging. Never even seen one happen except on TV. I also have not seen mistreatment of gays, but a lot of people pretty welcoming to them (youth mainly). Mormons are the only ones I have had the pleasure of seeing openly accept gays (you know the people gays claimed boycott them so much). Those white baptist are the ones I see run for the hills when a gay comes by. I have seen gays in black churches; Participating in church.

I could openly call you a liar on the spot, but what would be the point because I am mature enough to know different area different experiences.
on Tue 15 May 2012 at 02:12:51 Sharina

@ Dana

If you have an issue with what brothawolf says address it with him. Stop coming in her acting like everyone in the room made that comment about whites. You seem to be looking for an axe to grind with black people.
on Tue 15 May 2012 at 02:27:14 Sharina

@
“Or the disproportionate number of GLBT people, white or black, and especially transgender, that are killed by black heterosupremacists?”—-I beg to differ on this. Did you forget James Craig Anderson, Gwen Araujo, Mathew Shepard? All killed by whites. Maybe a few but I can pull up much more. There are bad in each bunch. Black and white.

Oh here’s a link to the black community doing nothing. http://www.windycitymediagroup.com/lgbt/Paige-Clays-murder-spurs-forum-action/37626.html

A lot more blacks are in support than you might think. I am sorry it is not in your area, but don’t convince yourself that your area represents others.
on Tue 15 May 2012 at 02:28:27 brothawolf

Dana,

“That’s why I suspect NickT’s comment. It seems highly exaggerated that he came across so many black criminals in his lifetime.”

And if he were black writing stereotyped stuff about whites (or asians for that matter, or jews, gays, etc) it would be okay right? How about the rights so many in the black community want to deny to gay people (including gay people of color?)

You see Dana, Blacks have always been disrespected, harmed and even killed by whites in history (Yes, I said history) and even today. In many cases what they’ve done against us was way more destructive on so many levels than what we’ve done to them as a collective.

No one said that it would be okay if it was a black man making the same statements. However, I’ve read and heard testimonies from PoC who dealt with the ignorance white people shoved in their faces while hiding behind a phony smile.

I have heard of high-profiled moments where white people invent – that’s right – invent phantom black people to cover up their crimes against other whites. Who’s to say that NickT’s comment isn’t synonymous with the old ploy to make themselves out to be more worthy of being considered ‘victims’ only when black people express their pain and frustrations dealing with racism?

Finally, I would like to know where you got that idea that the black community is trying to deny rights to gays. From the way you put it, you seem to want to employ that only the black community’s guilty of this, assuming that’s true.

“At least you admit that you are racist. Only a racist would conclude that skin color is a indication of criminality/violence.”

followed by:

“Also, a couple of weekends ago, two white men committed an armed robbery at a local store.

Still, those two examples are nothing compared to the worst atrocities caused by white men.”

Hypocrisy.

Of there is white on white crime. So, where is the blog about black on black crime? Oh, write, it doesn’t happen I guess.

“I didn’t even know people still mugged people. I thought that was just something that happened on TV and in parks, at midnight, in the city.”

Seriously? Where do you live, under a rock?

What do you mean hypocrisy?

Well, by that logic, where are blogs about white on white crime?

Dana, there are blogs and articles all over the internet alone that discussed black-on-black crime. They are everywhere. It is discussed online, and is being confronted offline. There are certain members within poor, crime-ridden black communities who are actually doing all that they can to stop the violence.

Now, who’s living under a rock?
on Tue 15 May 2012 at 02:33:32 Sharina

@ Herneith

LOL. You said a mouht full. I figured it would not be too long.
on Tue 15 May 2012 at 02:48:34 cleonette

@ Dana

“Seriously? Where do you live, under a rock?”

No. I live in a majority black area that has never, had a single mugging occur. The town I live in is super small and everybody knows everybody. Or maybe its just had for you to believe there are place that exist that have muggings on a daily basis.
on Tue 15 May 2012 at 03:25:28 cleonette

* Or maybe it’s just hard for you to believe there are places that exit that have had no muggings on a regular or daily basis.

Also, many of us have GLBT’s in our families so idk what you are talking about. Yes there are Christians who believe it is a sin, me being one of them. However, I don’t hate the sinner, I hate the sin, including my own. I am far from perfect. I do not believe in violence against anyone. Also, I don’t mind any laws that are made in favor of all that the GLBT community is in favor for. I respect your views, so please in turn respect mine. Christian doesn’t equal hate gay people and for you to say that is just as bad as what you claim people do to you.

I am going to say this one thing and you can take it however you like. People have a choice in the way they want to live their life. I chose to be a Christian and Christianity teaches that it is a sin. I have the right to that belief. I will believe that until I die. Does that mean I wish bad on people who are gay? No I do not. Am I violent against them? No. Christianity does not teach prosecution or violence. It says judge not least yea be judged. That means that Christians are not to treat anyone bad. That is not Christian behavior. Also, Christian does not equal perfect and heterosexual. We are at church because we are imperfect, not because we perfect. Think of church as a hospital for the soul. I am sorry if you have been subjected to any type of violence or condemnation, but I will not change my beliefs. I will treat someone homosexual no different than I treat anyone else. Believe me, people who call themselves Christian and do the things you are talking about are not just treating homosexuals like that. They probably treat everyone who do not share their beliefs bad, probably people that attend service with them too.

I can’t for the life of me figure out why people come to this blog and try to turn it into what they want to read. GO TO ANOTHER FREAKIN” BLOG ON THE TOPIC YOU WANT TO READ!!!!!!!
on Tue 15 May 2012 at 03:39:12 Sharina

@ cleonette

I agree with your post and it really sums it up perfectly. I have family that sees being gay as a sin, but are in no way homophobic. They still treat them the same.

@ Dana and Michelle if you want to discuss this issue further I would be happy to on open thread.

@ Michelle I am curious on how you get the claim of an abundance of the black community voted for prop 8 and neglect the fact that an abundance of the white community did as well. Even though you are trying to say black and white in your post to appear neutral I heavily noticed the need to push a large sum of blame on the black community. Why? You mention blacks beat and kill GLBT, but I am curious of any stories or example of this in news reports if you do not mind sharing. A personal story works for me as well.
on Tue 15 May 2012 at 03:40:16 V-4

@cleonette

Would you vote against the right for Gay people to marry?
on Tue 15 May 2012 at 03:42:02 V-4

@Sharina

Do they look at wearing clothes made from more than one fabric as a sin or eating seafood as a sin?
on Tue 15 May 2012 at 03:46:34 abagond

Gay marriage, etc is off topic here. Please continue on the Open Thread.
on Tue 15 May 2012 at 03:47:27 Sharina

@ V-4

Who my family? No they do not, but my uncle does see eating seafood as a sin.
on Tue 15 May 2012 at 03:48:05 Sharina

@ v-4

will elaborate on open thread
on Mon 21 May 2012 at 18:42:21 Joey Vellucci

In my humble and for what it is worth opinion I think white people and black people have both been carrying the scars and hatred of the ancestors that came before them. This has kept them apart..If you have a white friend, or if your white and have a black friend, are they not friends? Take everybody you meet on a person to person basis. Lumping everybody into this group or that group is not going to get anybody anywhere…Unite all people living in this country, we are one country and we have bigger problems happening to all of us. Your good, I’m good we are all good….let’s all be great together!
By the way , I am your typical Italian American guy from the Boston area…raised around hatred and misunderstanding about everything and everyone during the ugly 70′s and 80′s.
What do I hate? It is not the color of a persons skin, not the bloodline they come from, not the country that there ancestors came from… what I hate is bad food, bad music, greedy corporations, crooked politicians, criminals, the media, the Kardashians!! and people who are so stupid that they hate people for no reason other then they are just so dumb they can’t think for themselves..Expand your circle of friends …love a white guy!
on Mon 21 May 2012 at 18:55:00 Sharina

@ Joey Vellucci

I agreed with you all the way up to the Kardashians. At that point your own ignorance started to appear.

I don’t hate whites or any other race for that matter. I personally have friends from all backgrounds. Many in the room do. The thing you don’t get is regardless of who you agree or disagree with this country has some major issue in the department of inequity.

There are white people out there that believe we blacks want money, to be treated superior, etc. We do not want that. Money does not satisfy people; look at the Kardashians. What we want is respect. We want to be respected and treated equally.

If a child is in school and they achieve high honors and they are black then give that child the credit they deserve. My best friend is school was valedictorian (black female). It is tradition that the stage is set for her alone. The salutatorian was the sit with the class. That year they made her share the stage with the salutatorian (white female). She was very angry but never showed it.

I also have an issue with how living in America (suppose to be the melting pot) and you have to give up traditions of your country, language of your country, just to fit into the American stereotype. That urks me to no end because I feel like people should be able to freely carry out there traditions with out being told to speak English or act American.
on Mon 21 May 2012 at 19:37:03 Joey Vellucci

Hi Sharina,
Sorry about the Kardashian snipe.. It was just an attempt at humor to lighten up the post.
I agree with you on most of your post. As far as giving up your traditions, that is something that is happening to all people regardless of race. Traditions our parents did, change with every generation, every generation finds traditions of there own and little by little the old traditions are gone and something else becomes a tradition. I grew up with big Sunday dinners with the whole family. For many years we did not do that for some reason everybody got busy, we are now doing it again as much as possible and showing our kids what it is all about. Hopefully they will carry that on. Growing up we were a typical big huge white Italian family…we are now a multi cultural, multi race, multi- language, mixed race, crazy beautiful family and it all works just fine..everybody is happy and we enjoy our differences..
We can complain about how the country is this and this race is that and people from Europe or from wherever did this and that but when it all comes down to it, what are we going to do about it today? What are we going to do this very minute? I can’t change what others do or what people did years ago but what I can change and what you can change is what is inside our hearts and minds right now. If you want to preserve a tradition, language or anything special about who you are and where you came from, you do it and you do it happily and without worry what anybody thinks about it. Unfortunately if you can’t communicate with the majority of the population, it cuts down on your fun factor as a citizen in this country…What difference does a language make ? It is just a tool to communicate with each other..personally I like to pick up bits and pieces of different languages as it is something interesting and fun to be able to communicate a different way. If I moved to say France and wanted to be a citizen, I would learn French so I could communicate freely and not be scratching my head not knowing what people were saying to me..
I don’t know all the answers but I do know what I think and I think that people are good and bad in every color…just as they are great in every color…
I am sure there are many other people who feel the same way,
Thanks,
Joey
on Mon 21 May 2012 at 19:55:34 Sharina

@ Joey Vellucci

Now that you netter explained I understand a bit more where you are comming form. FYI I am not a big fan of the Kardashians or Jersey Shore for that matter.

I know every race gives up traditions and that is what I am referring to. I did not mean blacks per say but everyone. This is one thing I love is meeting people with different traditions and seeing them freely express it. It is like a breath of fresh air to me.

I agree with you when you ask the question what to do about it. We have big Sunday dinners at my grandmothers. It took the death of my grandfather for us to really get started on doing it and making it stick. I prey that every single tradition, every single ounce of love I show for other races regardless of skin color, etc. passes on to my daughter. I have notice that it slowly does with my daughter. I personally am a big fan of education and I try my best to introduce my daughter to different cultures so she has respect for them and their beliefs.

I agree that no one has all the answers and there are good and bad in every color, but what I fear more than anything is the good will get caught in the cross hairs of the bad. I worry abut that day in and day out. Believe it or not Joey….There are few that think the way you and I do. Even I was surprised at the few that do. I was blessed to be born in an area where although racial hatred is an issue, it has greatly decrease and we all get along fine here. To say a town like this is in the south is a weird phenomenon.

I saw a black man and a white man greet each other with hugs and walk in the store together one day, so I know it is not all bad. I do know and realize for the racist out their they do it out of hate and jealousy and I don’t think they even realize they have this issue. They show the same signs that bullies show when they choose a victim and this is regardless of race as well.
on Mon 21 May 2012 at 20:40:10 Joey Vellucci

Sharina,,,your a good women and from your comments can tell a great mom as well!
on Mon 21 May 2012 at 20:49:06 Sharina

@ Joey Vellucci

Thank you.
on Mon 28 May 2012 at 11:48:12 Cin

do you blacks just come on here and bash whites with no evidence whatsover in todays problems? you just say things happen today but cant show it. pathetic, im sure in real life you talk to whites like this, not a chance because youd loose your benefit of whites watching what they say around you. Your an inferior race keeping racism going on the internet. EVEN if you hate whites your no better than them complaining like children everyday on the internet. for a race that think they are superior you sure do act exactly like the people you claim to hate!

no im not white either
on Mon 28 May 2012 at 16:04:59 Michelle

@CIN

Try reading why abagond writes this blog and what he means when he refers to “whites”. I am white and I love this blog because it helps me to learn and understand their experiences and feelings. I do not take this as a racist blog…I take it as the truth from their experiences in their life. I feel these blogs are great at addressing issues. I have seen white people come on here and ask questions and make statements in a respectful way and the the replies are respectful as well. But if you come on here angry and disrespectful…be sure that is what you will get in return. This is a great learning experience for me and has really taught me a great amount. It addresses many problems of today that people…white and black…turn their heads to if it does not affect them directly. And in my opinion it is only enabling racism and oppression to exist.
on Mon 28 May 2012 at 16:37:28 Michelle

I love this blog…I personally, I will tell you from my experience, as a white woman, my opinions of this subject….Personally I feel it comes from fear of an uprising among the black population. For so many years white men and women owned slaves and once those slaves were free…they saw how capable they were and that they actually had their own minds and free will. Well, in my opinion, it terrified them that they would become the slaves and have done to them what they had done to the black population..(please…if I say anything that is offensive let me know…I am still learning what terms and phrases are considered offensive and racist.)…so in turn for years and generations it is taught to their children to stay away from them and they are brainwashed to think that they are better, smarter, have better family values. I grew up in a small all white town from the north that hid racism very well. My parents moved there because they did not want to subject us to the race riots that she went through as a teenager. I remember the first time I ever met a black family…I was 6 yrs old and my parents saw them broken down on the I69 and they did not want to leave them there because no one was stopping to help. My parents brought them back to our house and I sat there watching and could not understand why everyone was so scared. The husband and wife were clutching each other tightly together along with their little girl. My parents were frantically trying to round up my dad’s tools so he could go fix the car. I could feel the tension and see how scared everyone was…but I did not understand. Then after everything was fixed and my parents dropped them off and followed them home to make sure it did not break down again. I kept asking why everyone was so scared and why their skin was brown. I didn’t understand because at the age of six no one had ever mentioned to me that there were people that were brown or what racism was. They finally told me what people in the town thought and how they feared for our and their safety. I have many memories of white racism and I will share them if anyone is interested. But since I have a tendency to type long posts (sorry) I am going to end this one here.
on Tue 29 May 2012 at 02:36:46 Sharina

@ Cin

Although you may actually run away at this point, you need to actually realize that people on this blog are typing based on their experiences with whites. This does not refer to all whites and if you actually read anything you will understand that. The color of your skin does not matter if you can not gather a basic understanding of what the people in this room are actually talking about.

“for a race that think they are superior you sure do act exactly like the people you claim to hate!”—-Not on person in the room acts or has claimed superiority over any race of people. For you to say such a statement means you yourself must believe blacks are superior.

“Your an inferior race keeping racism going on the internet.”—This statement shows your stupidity. Blacks can not be inferior and superior. Pick one. Secondly you must not get around to blogs much. I have been to white blogs that say way more nasty things about blacks and people of color in general. This actually is much more civil but I can happily point you to a white blog to so you can see how civil racist and racism actually is.

Lastly, I don’t hate whites. My daughters best friend is white. My neighbors are white. I have no reason to hate them. I am happy with myself so I actually see no real reason to put down another race. The whites I personally know feel the same. The way I see it if you are comfortable with yourself then you have no need to hate or put down another race. There are whites that do this on a regular basis and there are blacks that do this as well. This particular blog is referring to the whites that do it.

I can see based on your post you have some insecurities that you need to work on.
on Tue 29 May 2012 at 02:37:26 Sharina

@ cin

In case you did not notice. There a white posters here as well.
on Tue 29 May 2012 at 02:39:27 Sharina

@ Michelle

Don’t apologize for writing a long post. Sometimes you have to say a lot to get people to understand. Make it as long as you need to.
on Tue 29 May 2012 at 02:59:33 B. R.

Co sign with Sharina and Michelle
on Tue 29 May 2012 at 03:06:13 leigh204

@ Michelle:

Thank you for your posts on here. I always enjoy reading them and I value your input. As Sharina mentioned, there’s no need to apologize. People always learn something (not counting the hardheaded racists) when coming on Abagond’s blog. I know I benefit whenever I come here.
on Tue 29 May 2012 at 08:43:18 Matari

@ Abagond – Michelle

“…They finally told me what people in the town thought and how they feared for our and their safety. I have many memories of white racism and I will share them if anyone is interested. But since I have a tendency to type long posts (sorry) I am going to end this one here. ”

*******

Perhaps Abagond might create another thread – this time for white people ONLY – describing their first experience (or whatever) with white racism/supremacy and how it impacted them regarding their feelings/thoughts on race as it relates to blacks and other non-whites.

In other words, it would be the racial inverse of the recent non-white only thread describing where posters described their early experiences of racism.
on Tue 29 May 2012 at 08:46:33 Matari

oops ….

“In other words, it would be the racial inverse of the recent non-white only thread describing where posters described their early experiences of racism.”

Should read :
In other words, it would be the racial inverse of the recent non-white only thread where posters described their early experiences of racism.
on Tue 29 May 2012 at 11:59:13 B. R.

Interesting point , Matari

Growing up white , thank god my parents iived in an integrated neighborhood and they tried to instill being not racist in me and my brothers. I made great freinds in grade school and when I started to butt my head up against racist white society , I smelled it and wanted no part of it. I started to see the hypocracy , discrimination and unfariness in racist white society towards black Americans at every turn