Alligator bait, also known as gator bait, is the practice of using little black children as bait to catch alligators. Some say it was done by white men during slave times in Florida and Louisiana and other parts of the American South.
Here is the most complete account of how it was done, coming from the grandson of someone who says he used to do it:
… the slaves who had babies they would steal the babies during the course of the day, some times when their mothers weren’t watching . … some would be infants, some would be a year old, he said some would be toddlers, he said they would grab these children and take them down to the swamp, and leave them in pens like little chicken coops.
They would go down there at night, take these babies and …. tie them up, put a rope around their neck and around their torso, around here, and tie it tight.
… they’d be screaming. … what they were doing would help them to chum the water. He said when they would throw the babies in tied to this rope, he said in a matter of minutes, he said, the alligator were on them. He said the alligator would clamp his jaws on that child, as a matter of fact once he clamped on them he was really swallowed, he said you couldn’t see anything but the rope!
Possibly a tall tale, but there is more:
There is also an account of this practice in Sharon Draper’s “Copper Sun” (2006). It is a work of fiction about a slave girl written for schoolchildren, but the book is meant to be as true to life as possible based on what we know commonly went on back in those days.
In 1923 Time magazine carried this story:
From Chipley, Fla., it was reported that colored babies were being used for alligator bait. The infants are allowed to play in shallow water while expert riflemen watch from concealment nearby. When a saurian approaches his prey, he is shot by the riflemen.
The Chipley Chamber of Commerce said the story was “a silly lie, false and absurd.” Maybe so, but it was widely reported in the American press, so it was at least believable among White Americans of the time.
Film: The practice has appeared in at least two films: “Alligator Bait” (1900) and “The ‘Gator and the Pickaninny” (1900). Two tales of boys used as alligator bait were told in “Untamed Fury” (1947).
Language: Probably from at least the 1860s up until the 1960s “alligator bait” was a racial slur among whites for little black children. In Harlem in the 1940s it was applied to blacks of any age from Florida.
Imagery: From at least the 1890s to the 1960s black children were often pictured as alligator bait, particularly on postcards. One man in Florida had a picture framed and put on his wall showing nine naked little black boys with the words “Alligator Bait” written below:
1890s:
1900s:
1920s:
1930s:
1940s:
1950s:
1960s:
Yet more pictures at authentichistory.com
– Abagond, 2010.
Update (2019): Snopes did a piece on this in 2017 with loads of examples. They concluded that while the idea was common enough, there is no proof that anyone in fact acted on it.
See also:
WOW. I know I have criticized you in the past for your intense focus on racism, but this one is right on target. It’s painful to think about, but facts are facts and they should be brought to light.
I have to applaud you that you are able to present such awful facts without breaking down.
Keep up the good work!! But do take a break once in a while. This type of post could really damage one’s psyche.
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I wonder did this really happen? It’s to bizarre and wicked to believe/accept. But as you stated ‘Abagond”, it was a widely held, or discussed topic in the white press/community. I’d like to think that maybe this ‘tall tale’ was the result of what anglos’ , as unfortunate circumstances of people from their travels in African countries, being injured by actual alligators, randomly as opposed to the ‘hearts/souls’ of whites, being that despicable, evil and twisted….
However, there are just to many ‘images’, ie postcards and the like dedicated to this possibility. I lived in Washington, D.C, a while back, and attended several of traveling, ‘Black American museum/memorobillia’ roadshows, and I saw hundreds of ‘knicknacs’, postcards, poster and other types of ‘art’, as you have pictured, of black infants and toddlers as food/bait for alligator. Unbelievable…..
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I would really like to know if that’s true. Such a vast array of memorabilia is enough to confirm it for me. But I’m from Florida, and alligators are really not hard to catch. They’re like sitting ducks. I mean, they sun themselves for long periods in the day. Their presence is always known, even if they’re just babies. Alligators were in great abundance back then too. If they were using rifles to just shoot them it would have been absolutely no trouble whatsoever. Even if they were catching them and sealing their mouths shut, they shouldn’t have needed bait for that.
I think that if whites were doing that back then it was meant to be a really cruel joke for them to laugh about, something to intimidate mothers into submission. I honestly believe that sounds more like the point of doing that.
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What the sh!t?!?!?! IHow have I never heard of this before?
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Well, I stand corrected. I had to look that up, and it seems this gator trapper’s favorite method of catching an alligator is a baited line. http://www.coastalsenior.com/archives/august2004/SNRgator.html the other “how-to” sites also suggest baited lines when the goal is to kill the alligator.
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Like you, I’m not sure whether to believe children were really used in this way–but the threat of violence and the devaluing of human beings in these images is shocking even if they did not. Even the person telling the story to the man on the video might not have been truthful–but think about how threatening and horrifying to hear the story. I mean, when the man said, “I won’t sell them to you, I just want you to see them,” about the shackles–ugh. What kind of a country is this?
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I believe this is true, after everything Whites have done, I cannot believe that they didn’t do this. These pictures, its sickening, use babies as allegator bait, wtheck?! Your post focus on alot of racism, but its because racism is around, so keep doing your thing. Abagond I truly respect you and what your doing. I have never heard of this before, didn’t even know anything about it, but I thank you for bringing it to alot of people’s attention.
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I’d like to see more evidence than memorabilia of this sort and one old cracker’s reminiscences about something his grandaddy once told him.
One thing’s for sure, however: the memorabilia indicates that even if this DIDN’T occur, it was widely seen as a “humorous” threat. And we do know that white people thought that black people were easily scared (to wit, the Klan’s belief that they looked like ghosts and that black people were “naturally” scared of ghosts – no evidence anywhere that any black person ever thought that the Klan was anything but a bunch of white a**holes dressed up in sheets).
But yeah, more evidence of this occurring would be nice.
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I also find it striking that the children are naked in most of the images. It’s like a sickening combination of utter dehumanization and lasciviousness.
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Jesus! (((SMH))) Thanks Abagond for all of your articles. You the man. But looking at those photos and reading this REALLY freaked me the hell out. The more I read about white folks, the more I look at them in a different light. I see now they REALLY are psychologically screwed.
This is beyond SICK!
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All I can say is WOW, can someone really be that cruel and devilish. On second thought considering what or shall I say who we are dealing with.
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Julia sez:
It’s like a sickening combination of utter dehumanization and lasciviousness.
You find pictures of naked children lascivious Julia?!
You ain’t baby-sitting my kids!
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Phoenix:
On second thought considering what or shall I say who we are dealing with.
Yeah. Because we all know that white people routinely use black babies as alligator bait, right?
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Thaddeus
Phoenix:
On second thought considering what or shall I say who we are dealing with.
Yeah. Because we all know that white people routinely use black babies as alligator bait, right?
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I cannot speak for ‘Phoenix’, but my interpretation is that, no, ‘I’ do not think that whites, ‘routinely’, if at all, used black infants/toddlers for bait, but that the images depicting ‘the possibility’ of such an atrocity, was ‘entertaining’, thought to be humorous, and ‘kitschy’ art-worthy’; that, in and of itself, is food for thought(pun intended).
I think ‘we’ are discussing three/3 things here:
1/one, that it did happen,
2/two, that this could have happened, and ,
3/three, whites were tititilated at the thought of it happening.
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The problem with stuff like this is that it presumes that everyone thought it was cute ‘n funny at the time.
I wonder what Americans are going to look like 100 years from now when people start bringing up Sara Palin, Sean Hannity and Glen Beck as “a good illustration of what kind of people we’re dealing with”.
1) I don’t know.
2) It certanily could have happened;
3) I doubt that “whites” were titilated by this, but I’m sure some whites were.
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Racism persists because people would like to believe in the humanity of the inhumane. There are too many people that still would like to make excuses, challenge the validity or rationalize the reasons behind such heinous acts (see Victoria’s comments as example).
Remember that Africans were not believed to be nor treated as human beings by those who enslaved them so it is highly probable that using their children in this sick manner actually happened!!! They kidnapped pregnant women that would give birth on slave ships and yet there are those that want to believe they wouldn’t use our children for bait. These photos are perfect examples of the mindset of the people that would create these depictions. What is that saying… “Art imitates life”.
The dehumanization and degradation of Africans and their ancestors has existed for hundreds of years without ceasing in order for “white people” to justify the vileness and the inequality that exists in society.
Love your site Abagond… I’ll go back to lurking.
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BlackButtrFly – I’m not debating whether I believe that this occurred – I do believe it did. I think the evidence is too strong that it did. What I was debating was whether or not they actually were used as bait or if they were threatening mothers that their babies would be used as bait and collectively thinking of that as some sick joke. I’m sorry that I wasn’t clear in my comments.
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** and there is no valid reason nor rationalization for either using them as bait or threatening to and watching what the mothers would do to stop it from happening.
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This sickens me. I don’t know whether to cry or vomit first. It’s highly likely that it occurred. Fast forward to present day, many white people still can’t see non-white people as actual nuanced human beings. It seriously depresses me.
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Thaddeus
The problem with stuff like this is that it presumes that everyone thought it was cute ‘n funny at the time.
I wonder what Americans are going to look like 100 years from now when people start bringing up Sara Palin, Sean Hannity and Glen Beck as “a good illustration of what kind of people we’re dealing with”.
1) I don’t know.
2) It certanily could have happened;
3) I doubt that “whites” were titilated by this
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The ‘some’ is a good place to start. But, that it WAS a part of ‘some’ white’s psyche, is straight up Clive Barker/Stephen King and ‘SAW’ bs. Also, I’m thinking that the alligator image, if not true, may be an allorgical/metaphor representative of the ‘white psyche’, as opposed to actual alligators. I hope, because Blacks in America, were in essence, vulnerable as hell, to the whims of white supremacy, anger and rage. So, in many/most cases, blacks were being ‘consumed’ by the white dominant power structure.
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F*kcing gruesome. It looks like something from the nazis.
I bet there are still some psychopaths to this day who reminisce “the old days when there was still some real good humour…”
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@Victoria
I understand what you are saying but within your comments and even your explanation there is still the underlying sense of trying to find ‘humanity in the inhumane’.
It’s not just you that is guilty of this type of thought process… a great deal of us who don’t understand how people could possibly be capable of such make the mistake of rationalizing the insane because it’s hard to process such vileness if you are sane.
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I always thought these pictures were part of some sick racist joke, but then I wondered why always alligators? If white people got kicks from seeing innocent black children in danger, then why not picture them in other sorts of danger, like almost falling out of windows or almost getting hit by a car? Or why not lions, bears or even crocodiles, animals that are far more dangerous? There was Little Black Sambo and the tigers, but that image is always part of the story, not on its own like this one.
But then once I found out that the pictures might not be just a joke but come from something in history, they made way more sense.
Granted, though, if it turns out there was some minstrel routine of alligator baiting, that would make sense of the pictures too. But the mere slur of “alligator bait” I do not think is enough. There is something behind the pictures. It is more than just sick humour.
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“Thaddeus said:
The problem with stuff like this is that it presumes that everyone thought it was cute ‘n funny at the time.
I wonder what Americans are going to look like 100 years from now when people start bringing up Sara Palin, Sean Hannity and Glen Beck as “a good illustration of what kind of people we’re dealing with”.
1) I don’t know.
2) It certanily could have happened;
3) I doubt that “whites” were titilated by this, but I’m sure some whites were.”
Weren’t whites titilated by hanging black men and photographing them? I.e., lynching. There are many pictures of white men and women laughing and pointing at dismembered black men (and some women).
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Thaddeus,
I hope you’re kidding in your response to me, but in case you’re not:
No, I do not find them lascivious. But I suspect that the intended audience was supposed to.
Maybe I should have said it this way:
It’s a combination of straight-up dehumanization mixed with a very creepy sexualization.
Is that better?
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No, I do not find them lascivious. But I suspect that the intended audience was supposed to.
Ah, yes. Because we know that evil people are evil in everything, correct? Not only were they racists, they were pedophiles.
Yeah, makes perfect sense to me, Julia.
Straight-up dehumanization? I buy that.
Sexualization? Sorry, no. Baby nudity is not necessarily sexcual. In fact, your two arguments run contrary to one another: on the one hand, you think these people are dehumanizing blacks. OK, fair go. On another, you think they’re setting up black children as sexual objects?
Wha….?
BtW, Julia, it was pretty common at the time to show babies nude in commercial propaganda.
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@ Oyan:
The ‘some’ is a good place to start. But, that it WAS a part of ‘some’ white’s psyche, is straight up Clive Barker/Stephen King and ‘SAW’ bs.
Not sure what you mean here, or why comparing this to fiction seems to be a good idea for you.
@BlackButterfly
I understand what you are saying but within your comments and even your explanation there is still the underlying sense of trying to find ‘humanity in the inhumane’.
It’s not just you that is guilty of this type of thought process… a great deal of us who don’t understand how people could possibly be capable of such make the mistake of rationalizing the insane because it’s hard to process such vileness if you are sane.
The problem with that, BB, is that evil is rarely insane. Evil becomes banalized to the point where people don’t even notice it.
Granted, though, if it turns out there was some minstrel routine of alligator baiting, that would make sense of the pictures too. But the mere slur of “alligator bait” I do not think is enough. There is something behind the pictures. It is more than just sick humour.
Agreed.
@Patricia
Weren’t whites titilated by hanging black men and photographing them?
Many, yes. And many were appalled. It certaijnly became a national cause for shame, which it wouldn’t have if 100% – or even 70% – of white America was clapping its hands and going “Yay! Cool!”
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Gruesome. D:
I suspect this never actually happened, but was the punchline to a old, forgotten racist joke/line done in pictorial form, like the memes we see today on the internet.
Still, dehumanizing and unfunny.
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I guess ‘Thaddeus’ told us lol! He’s totally or intentionally missing the point. Sure not all whites engaged in the wholesale lynching of black Americans, or used black toddlers for alligator bait, but, it was practically a national past time. Whole communities engaged in this. The many post card pics of lynchings and pictures document that history. Some Italians were in the mafia, murdered many people, some Germans imprisoned Jewish people in concentrations camps, not all. Some young black Americans are in gangs and killing their own people on the daily. Some people in the Khymer Rouge murderd thousands upon thousands of people. The ‘not all/ or some factor’ is irrelevant.
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@Blackbutterfly
In text it’s difficult for me to convey exactly what I mean sometimes. In my head it sounded like this: if there is no need for bait in alligator catching, then the use of children is even more sinister than I can begin to wrap my mind around. I figured it was true in the first place, but the fact that there is apparently a need for bait merely confirms that whites would do this. I do not believe in either instance that there is a shred of humanity involved. I sought to prove it true and ended up doing something pretty white instead. I appreciate that you took the time to point it out and to further respond to my comments. Thank you.
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Oyan, using black infants as alligator bait was a national past-time?
Really?
So then it should be really easy for you to find us, say, three newspaper articles about it, right? I mean, it being a national past-time and wholly approved by whites and all, this shouldn’t be too hard.
As for “wholesale lynching”…. How many lynchings do we need to count before things become “wholesale”? without looking at google, how many lynching do you think were reported in the U.S.? If it was wholesale and so widely approved of, how do you account for the fact that some states had no lynchings of black people at all? Wisconsin, IIRC, had one in the early 19th century and it’s unclear if that was a racist lynching or not. Most of the people lynched by white folks in the U.S., in any case. where – TA DA! – white.
So the “not all” factor isn’t an issue here. You seem to be claiming that lynching was an exclusive behavior of blacks toward whites and that, furthermore, it was well-distributed throughout the U.S., that all or most whites supported it and engaged in it. Finally, you seem to believe, through your use of the word “wholesale” that this happened to hundreds of thousands of blacks.
This is the problem with dogmas: racist lynching is elevated to a paradigmatic behavior of all whites, everywhere. This is PRECISELY the message you are trying to convey. My argument that it is not has nothing to do with the idea that “some” or “not all” whites did this: my argument is based on the fact that this was not a behavior even engaged in by a MAJORITY of whites. It didn’t have to be to be evil and racist, granted. But I’m not arguing against the fact that some forms of lynching were racist: I’m arguing against the idea that “we can understand who THESE PEOPLE are” based on lynching.
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I always thought these pictures were part of some sick racist joke, but then I wondered why always alligators?
Most likely due to the fact that southern racism and the natural habitat of alligators are primarily in the same area. Geographically, it is where most hate crimes occurred. I can see the graphic imagery being used as a hate tool for sure.
If any real incident involving children being used as “alligator bate” had occured, I’m sure it would have been followed by the mysterious disappearance of some white folk. One would think there would have been some form of record of such a thing. Regardless, it is grossly disturbing.
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If racist southern whites could brutalize a 14 year old (Emmett Till) I have no doubt in my mind that they could steal sleeping infants from their mothers and feed them to aligators.
If racist southern whites could bomb a church and destroy four innocent black children I have no doubt in my mind that they could steal sleeping infants from their mothers and feed them to aligators.
If racist southern whites could casterate and hang, drag, burn, and eviscerate blacks as they did with impunity before the mid-sixties then I have no doubt in my mind that they could steal sleeping infants from their mothers and feed them to aligators.
: (
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I can see the graphic imagery being used as a hate tool for sure.
Definitely my take on it, absent better info.
If racist southern whites could brutalize a 14 year old (Emmett Till) I have no doubt in my mind that they could steal sleeping infants from their mothers and feed them to aligators.
“Could” and “did” are two different things, Poetess.
I, for one, believe humans are possible of pretty much any evilness you can name.
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I have no doubt that this happened. Was it common? No. Did all whites participate in it? No. But I have no doubt that somewhere deep in the Bayou or Everglades somebody sometime did this. That’s the whole point. It is a “joke” that is so much “funnier” because it is based on reality. When one sees a postcard depicting a black kid screaming in terror of an alligator, one can wink his eye to the other guys and then it is rip roar laughter!
I have seen enough in my life time that this does not surprise me at all. And the violent acts which are the most horrendous are not usually comitted by “criminals” but god fearing decent people. The ones who “obey and uphold the values”. I’ve seen this many times. Nice people slip, they somehow loose control, they just lost it, you know. They did not mean bad. They just say: “But I know I’m a good person”.
They were also the guys who did the holocaust. The top dog of the SS, Heinirch Himmler, was a teatcher. Commanders of einsatz groups were usually middle class guys, cops and engineers etc.
The guys who made the Stalins genocide possible were mainly bureucrats like finnish guy called Otto Ville Kuusinen. He is the only non russian/soviet who has ever been buried to the Kremlin wall. He was the boss of the party organ which controlled all the jails, camps, courts and such in which some 14-16 million people perished (estimate by Mihail Gorbatshov). And lo behold, he was originally a teatcher too and a journalist.
We all have seen the photos from lynchings in which you can see decent looking white ladies in their summer dresses and kids smiling and having fun. They are out to celebrate and have a nice picknick. And somewhere in the backround there is still smouldering carcass of a humanbeing hanging from a tree. And these photos are not from 1800’s but from 1920’s and 30’s South.
These people loved their kids very much. Actually the commandant of Auschwitz Rudolf Höss was very nice man and never physically punished his kids or shouted at home. He liked classical music, books and science, gardening and arts. And he killed some 2-4 million people in little more than couple of years. He gassed them, skinned them, tortured them, killed them in forced labour etc.
Guys who lead the Rwandan genocide were priests. The serb leader who lead the ethnic clensing of Bosnia was a poet and a psychologist. All nice and decent guys and men of good values. Not junkies, drunks, gangsters. But guys who keep the society together!
And there you have it. In those postcards. Actually the one in the piccaninny post was more terrifying than this one. But there you have it: black kids in terror and alligators after them. In photos. Maybe they are set ups, maybe not. But the fear in those kids eyes is real.
Who the fuck would do these set ups anyway? What kind of a photographer would take pictures like this? Propably the one who took pictures from graduations, church festivities, weddings and such. The nice guy, you know. The one who took your wedding picture. And who wanted them? All those nice people around. And why? Because they were so funny!!
This is the most sickest and most terrifying part of racism. Thanks to abagond for bringing this up.
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hmmm…its possible this kind of thing happened…
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Yes, it is.
What I don’t see it as is a vast, white sport.
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Great post ‘Sam’. I agree, ‘Thaddeus’, if events like this happened, not a ‘vast, white sport; but that this is part and parcel, a remaining image of ‘white on black’ brutality, in addition to the thousands of lynchings, murders, rapes, Jim Crow based atrocities, and justice denied, for years, this speaks to the horror of what black Americans have had to
endure as American citizens. My grandmom, from Louisiana told a ‘story’ of how she and other classmates were warned to not walk a certain path to school, because of a lynched person, still hanging. Of course some of the more adventurous and daring disobeyed, went that path, and were horrified to see an actual victim, one being my grandmother. She told this to us, when we were children. A black American version, of ‘Stand By Me’, if you will. This is part of the black American psyche, children as possible ‘alligator bait’, is just a more recent discovery/addition.
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Doen’t it seem kind of expensive though?
I mean, even the most morally derelict slave master would do much better allowing the baby to grow for a few years and then sell him to the highest bidder. It’s infinitely easier to bait alligators with chickens, or piglets. It’s not like alligators have some specific thing for black babies.
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in addition to the thousands of lynchings, murders, rapes, Jim Crow based atrocities, and justice denied, for years, this speaks to the horror of what black Americans have had to endure as American citizens.
THIS, I agree with.
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To me, it’s not really if it happened that horrifies me. It’s that all those people got the postcards, and looked at them in stores, even the little kids, and thought nothing of little babies being torn apart and eaten alive by alligators. Because to them, the babies weren’t even human. And if babies were killed by the alligators, it just shows how low human beings can go if they really, truly, don’t care about someone.
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Personally, I don’t doubt that it has happened, if you can lynch innocent people for entertainment and keep body parts as souvenirs then you can kill their children without a thought, plain and simple…the bare fact that such a sick, low down, evil idea made onto postcards and nicknacks just turns my stomach and it speaks VOLUMES.
Sometimes I think aliens are playing a really sick joke on us and the punchline is waay overdue. Ugh!
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@king… yes it seems very expensive, but it possibly could have been seen as a worthwhile expense… I would think, if it was done, even once, or even routinely threatened to be done in an atmosphere where people believed it might be… it could be a highly effective tool for gaining total and complete compliance from a population.
And I think most moms on here would agree, that we may put up with all kinds of intimidation aganst ourselves, but would certainly become defiant if we felt the need to protect our children, when a mother has a baby or a young child, is the very time she is most likely to tell others, no i cant work today, it is too hot for my baby… slave or not she would speak out to protect her offspring… hence the need for a VERY effective threat. And that is picture perfect evidence of the MOST effective threat. Git to work woman or I will feed your kid to the gators!
The amount of memorabilia here shocks me, from so many different sources, and of so many different types, even IF it was never done even once, the shocking scope of the rumour of it is bad enough. @Thaddeus, you are probably right, If it were commonly practiced, it probably would have made its way into the papers once or twice, but I have to say… by the same logic you use, IF it NEVER happened, nobody would have ever thought to make it such a ubiquitous collectible and advertising ploy.
I dont know the answer, i just think it is too sick for words.
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White people and their sense of “humor”. Oh, sorry. I meant. SOME white people. You know. The ones that these cards and products were MASS produced for.
Just as funny as the postcards of lynching Black people on trees. Hardy har har. It’s not that bad see, because not ALL whites were doing it. so that negates the atrocity of this particular form of humor. Don’t you get it? So uptight.
…besides, if they were REALLY that bad, then they wouldn’t have been made. Besides, people had a DIFFERENT sense of humor back then. We can’t judge them by todays contemporary standards..ad infinitum ad naseaum…
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I agree with Sam; while I seriously doubt that this was a widespread practice, I would guess that it happened once or twice. If that was the case, it would have been exaggerated and joked about by some whites, largely as a way of keeping black people fearful.
Even if it never happened, the fact that even some people would find this thing funny is bad enough in itself.
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This post really made me cry.
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I don’t know what to say here. I don’t think it’s “just” a racist humour- the details are too precise for that. On the other hand, I don’t think it was a widespread practice like lynchings or raping.
So maybe it happened somewhere and then passed around as a “funny” anecdote, or it happened more frequently but in a less organized manner- they let kids play near the water, for example, and didn’t care if alligators killed them.
In any case, even if it never happened, or if it happened once, what is interesting to observe the way alligator bait story gain its popularity among whites. I mean, they even made “funny” postcards and figurines depicting alligators hunting and eating human babies. Read this again: funny postcards of alligators eating babies.
As for naked toddlers as sexual objects: While there are certainly some people (read: paedophiles) who see naked children in sexual manner, I don’t think it’s true for majority of people.
What I’m saying is, seeing naked kids, especially toddlers, is not a big deal in many cultures. In my culture it’s perfectly ok for kids of that age to be naked on the beach, for example, and mothers don hesitate to undress their children if necessary (for an urgent diaper change, for example) in front of strangers. It’s really not seen as a big deal and nobody even dream to think about it in sexual context. I had no idea it’s different in America.
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Sometimes I think aliens are playing a really sick joke on us and the punchline is waay overdue. Ugh!
LOL, i’ve always felt this way!
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@ImNotSurprisedAnymore… Good point on the mass production thing. Even if most of these things were short run, low selling products (incidentally, the link abagond has put up leads me to think that no, they were not small run, but instead that this was an effectve, common and well selling marketing ploy for decades, like how you can’t walk into a gift shop in maine and not find 50 items with lobsters on them, or london with big ben) The sheer variety and breadth of this is stunning, even with the lynching postcards as an example, there were never lynching candies marketed, or lynching knick knacks. Looking at picture after picture of licorice tins, pencil sharpeners, figurines, etc. with manufacturing dates all the way up to the PRESENT time literally made me sick. This was obviously a common ‘humourous’ little joke, and even someone from another country for example, who was not consumed with hatred might pick up a candy tin without the words AB on it, or an obviously imperiled child(one who could still get away from the alligator, vs. one already in the alligators mouth) and think ,what an adorable baby! without FULLY processing or knowing the significance of ‘alligator bait’, or even being aware of it at all. By contrast, I am guessing that the lynching postcards were only made and marketed for the most hardcore of racists, And not marketed in the same manner. A shopkeeper or hotelier with a rack of lynching postcards, and, even at the time would surely expect to be told sometimes, even by white people… how disgusting they were. However that same shopkeeper might sell thatlicorice and be genuinely shocked if someone said something.
@Mira naked babies are not seen in a sexualized manner here, and emergency diaper changes or little kids running through sprinklers naked are not particularly shocking, the brazenness of this particular use of naked babies is shocking, I dont know if i would use the word sexualized, but i would definately say this is perverse.
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It doesn’t get any worse than white people.
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Personally, I believe that the images are based in reality. As a person who has lived in the South and offended other whites in a racial capacity, I have been threatened with being used as “alligator bait”. When I saw these images, I remembered that and finally realized the connection. I have other reasons for thinking they are based in reality, but I don’t want to go that deep.
Having said that, I also wonder if there isn’t a really creepy symbolism to those alligators. I think someone else already mentioned the alligators being symbolic of the white power structure devouring vulnerable black people, but I noticed something else.
In several of the pictures, the alligator is pictured biting or otherwise going for the child’s buttocks. In many of the pictures, the children appear to be males. I agree that in these particular pictures, the nakedness of the children does suggest a sexualization. I see this in the aspect of the alligators’ apparent fixation on the children’s posteriors. The most obvious one is the one which appears to be a photograph, with the boy kneeling, with his buttocks raised, and the alligator poised to bite.
I think these images, and the positioning of the children and the alligators are perhaps subconscious (or even conscious) references to the frequency of rapes of perpetrated against black children during slavery and Jim Crow. We tend to think more of white males raping black females, however, there have always been sexual predators who prey upon children. Would it be so hard to believe that such predators also preyed upon black children? After all, those children were particularly vulnerable since they were not seen as human, were the property of white men, and whose parents were unable to protect them. And it is the most vulnerable children who are targeted by sexual predators. Slavery and Jim Crow must have been a predator’s paradise.
In such a context, the alligator, which is a natural predator, takes on the symbolism of a potential sexual predator of children. So, I agree with those posters who think the images convey sexualization, only I think it has less to do with nudity.
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Well why not.
The poised open-mouthed alligator with its concupiscent eyes may possibly be a symbol of hunger and lust.
After all, there is a disturbing wealth of evidences, that through history , white americans have continuously used their black neighbour’s sexual maturation as a reference for their own sexual maturation and identification.
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I don’t see anything sexual in these pictures or stuff. Nude baby reminds of the innocence and vurnability, it is the most innocent of the blacks, and yeehaw, lets feed them to alligators!
If somebody sees something sexual in these very disturbing images, I recommend therapy for sometime. I mean, how the hell you can even read these images trough something as sexual?
Maybe it is over there, but over here nudity does not mean automatic sexuality nor alligators. They are just very small kids who are about to be used as alligator baits. I believe who ever the sick fuck who made these did not mean any sexual references nor hidden meanings; this is straight forward stuff. The message here is very simple: WE USE BLACK KIDS AS ALLIGATOR BAITS.
No amount of herr Freud or anybody else can twist my head around to this “Here is something sexual going on”. No matter how perverted. Maybe I’m a simple man, but in my head violence and sexuality do not mix. They are not the same, related nor anything else. The other is bad and the other is good. This is bad,
No, there is something terrible going on here. Something violent and brutal, something very evil. It is called racism. Not sexuality. Just racism.
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Though I have heard the term before, I had no idea of it’s origins (whether true or not). I’m going to have to investigate this further.
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Sam,
If nude baby=innocence and vulnerability, then what exactly do the alligators equal?
So much of racism is tinged (in some cases drenched) with sexualization of some kind that it is not a far reach that such images have dual meanings.
When you are on the topic of white racism and fear of blacks, you inevitably encounter the topic of sexuality intertwined with it. The lynching and mutilation of black males were undeniably sexual. How else would you explain the sexual mutilation? If such violent acts by whites against blacks had sexual overtones and undertones, is it such a stretch to conclude that feeding black children to alligators might have had some, too?
I’ve read a bit too much history and heard a bit too many white males express some truly bizarre, paranoid views of black males to totally disengage racism and racial violence from sexuality.
Sam, I do not know where you are from, but here in the U.S. violence, sexuality, and racism are Siamese triplets.
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Americans tend to see sex in everything. It’s the number one national taboo! You can show people killing hundreds of other people on prime-time TV, no problem, but show one couple making love… Horrors!
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Southern White Woman,
Thank you. Agreed, agreed, agreed.
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Thaddeus,
If it walks like a duck, looks like a duck, and sounds like a duck…. it is probably a duck.
I don’t “see sex in everything.” But I KNOW for a fact that when you see racism of some kind in THIS country (I can’t speak for your own), that some weird sexual aspect is not far behind it.
If you want to better understand what I am talking about with regards to sex and racism, perhaps you could do a google search on the issue. Read, research it, instead of dismissing it as “Americans see sex in everything.” That comment might be right on target in a different context, but in this one, I find it dismissive.
I live in the south and I have heard references from white males to “alligator bait” before, always in a “racial” context, and closely tied in to references to rape.
That’s reality as I have experienced it here and read in our history.
This is probably one of the touchiest, most uncomfortable aspects of racism for white people to admit and discuss, even harder than white privilage. You want to talk about “taboo.” Well…..when discussing the sexual aspects of racism and our sordid history of Jim Crow and slavery, the sexual part is the MOST taboo of all.
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I mean really….how many white folks, especially in the south, want to admit that their great, great-granddaddy was playing hanky-panky (or FAR more likely…..raping) black women that he may or may not have owned….and that they have black relatives as a result? Better to just avoid the whole issue, right?
I was busted in the mouth by an adult when I was a teenager for making references to possible black ancestry and possible black relatives. And that by an adult who had never struck me before. And you certainly can’t have those black relatives without all that sex, can you?
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But shhhh……..we can’t talk about THAT can we?
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Interesting perspective, SouthernWHiteWoman.
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The fact that you got pop in the mouth was perhaps from the interferences of two phenomenons, the passing phenomenon, and the one-drop-rule.
The suggestion of african ancestry could have disastrous consequences, and since no one could prove or disprove it , this assertion was basically a declaration of war among whites.
There has been moms who taught their children that under no circumstances , should they hint or suggest it.
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Abagond
Shaming white people is just not going to work. Your site is informative but it’s a bit like a boxer getting in a boxing match saying “Hey !! Don’t punch me that hard …it hurts” They know that, that’s why they do it.
Attempting to make whites understand the damage that they do…haven’t we learned that that doesn’t work.
THEY WANT TO DAMAGE US !!
Your trying tell the person that shoots you, that it hurts.
“Look what your doing….I’m bleeding”
THEY KNOW THAT !!
Bro. Read this blod and the radio programs.
http://racism-notes.blogspot.com/
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@African_Black_Militant,
I disagree. Abagond isn’t wasting his time. Some whites, once they understand the damage done, do NOT want to inflict further damage.
Besides, sometimes, whether anyone is listening, changing, et. is not even the point. Sometimes someone just has to say (for their OWN sake) “hey, that’s wrong!” Sometimes, people just have to “bear witness.” There are many reasons for Abagond to have such a blog and say the things he says. I for one, appreciate it.
It may be hard to believe, but there are some souls out there who want to know that truth, even if it hurts.
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When I saw the first picture, I couldn’t help but think about my baby. He is 19 months, I know the babies on the picture are around the same age as he. It’s so sad to think of how we were made to suffer! Who does these types of cruel things? Who wants to see an alligator kill, and eat a baby?! This is sick. After reading this post, I was in tears! It really happened, you can’t put nothing past white terrorists!
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This seems too far-fetched to me. However, considering the history of these United States with regard to people of African descent it doesn’t seem too outrageous that black children where used as gator bait.
Fact or fiction it’s clear the image of black babies and toddlers as bait for game was a source of amusement for white Americans.
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I’m not surprised by these images knowing about the consistent use of racist imagery against people of more melanin around the world.
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SouthernWhiteWomen
A devil can NEVER EVER be reformed. The white race is a race of devils. Abagond will probably ban me for this, because I’m just too black militant but I will never back down to anyone.
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Only a person with a heart made of stone would find this funny or entertaining. This post is a true display of how sick and twisted some whites really are. Even if using children as gator bait wasn’t done by most whites, I do believe the majority of whites got a good laugh out of it, which again is sick.
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to southerwhitewoman:
I too see an under current of sex in these pictures. i also noticed they were all boys and we know how much the white male LOVES having sex with boys. I agree with you.
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and i also agree with you africanblackmilitant, the white race are devils, nothing can or will change them. the sooner black people learn that the better.
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Yeah, until the next “race of devils” turns up.
Who will it be next time? Hmmm.
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I do not agree with the last part of your post. If you think that is what I meant by my posts, then you are mistaken.
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My last post was directed to Fatima. Sorry, I forgot to include that detail.
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I believe that it happened but not very frequently otherwise there would lots of photos of this terrorist activity the way there have been many photos of lynchings.
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It makes little sense to me why slave owners would waist potential money / investment this way. If we check with current slave owners in Africa I doubt they do things like this. It makes more sense that this would have been a campaign of suggestion.
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“Gator bait” has two meanings. It’s used to either call someone worthless or to say that someone has no chance. As in, “if you mess with him you’ll end up gator bait”. It also became a bit of a crude insult kind of like watermelon and fried chicken. And then blacks looking for an excuse to hate whites started saying it was true. It’s the same kind of nonsense as “willie lynch” and saying whites “invented” AIDs.
Alligator hunters do use bait but it’s dead and rotten because alligators are attracted to the smell. They usually use dead chickens, road kill, etc because it’s cheap and it stinks. Alligator hunters don’t use live bait and never have.
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@ destructure
Yeah because white people have been so kind to us that we need a reason to go looking for things to hate them for. It’s almost impossible given how wonderful they’ve been to us. Giving us a free ship ride over here, hooking us up with jobs, taking away pesky relatives so we never have to see them again.
whites have done nasty things and in light of them, alligator bait doesn’t sound farfetched at ALL. Only a sanctimonious white person would ignore evidence. Can you tell me why white people made so many postcards, dolls and whatnot pertaining to this? Not us. THEM.
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@ Peanut
I put nothing past anyone anymore, especially white Southerners.
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I’m here in Florida in search of the story behind Rosewood. I made a comment about gator bait today which is what sent me to this page. I just would like people to see so that they don’t think imagination is running away with me.
Thank you.
O.C. Irie
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@darqbeauty:
You forgot setting us up with men like destructure.
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@darqbeauty
Maybe. But the topic of discussion was “alligator bait”.
@Herneith
Don’t flatter yourself, sweetie.
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@ destructure,
Stupid black people, I mean they ALL think white people invented aids and something *mumble* to do with Willie Lynch and all, lets just try to dismiss the topic and ALL of the evidence and pictures up there by portraying black people who agree with that as people “looking for an excuse to hate whites”.
I personally feel a lot more outrage for the poor gator hunters and their dead bait than the topic of how the term “gator bait” was used to dehumanize black children and black people in general during a period of time (and we should totally ignore the implications of using black kids as gator bait due to their “worthlessness”). Since black kids aren’t people and all, them being called “gator bait” is not offensive as insinuating that gator people used life bait…
Because white people have been lovely to black people. Black people never would have a reason to have a single inkling of dislike for any white person. And with all of the lynchings and such, we all know white people would never use black kids as “gator bait”.
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Crime statistics and off topic here.
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@ restructure
You have derailed two of my threads. Please stay on topic.
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Seriously people, think about it for a minute. While yes, this country certainly did have a vile enough sense of racism as a whole to think that this sort of thing was hilarious, as is evident by all of postcards and other imagery. But remember that the ownership of slaves was strictly a 1%-er type activity. And slaves were very VERY valuable property. Something tells me that some poor white swamp dweller who tried to abscond with baby slaves would become priority numero uno for some enormously wealthy and exceedingly cruel men. there is probably a reason why we dont hear too much about slave poaching back then. And since slaves were worth around the equivalent in that era’s money of what a decent car would cost you today, I doubt if our larcenous swamp dwellers would waste such valuable spoils on alligator bait. Sounds like a boogeyman story. Just sayin.
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@ Cora
Slaves were maimed and killed regularly.These are the same people who sold their own children from slaves into brutal chattel slavery. Why were they peddling these horrid things? The fact that people were buying them shows a ruthless pathology without empathy. I think some would be very capable of this act for sport.
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This is the “HISTORY” hidden. The hate is still very much alive! Ever heard of the Willie Lynch letter, the making of a slave.
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[…] background-position: 50% 0px ; background-color:#222222; background-repeat : no-repeat; } abagond.wordpress.com – Today, 7:34 […]
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Ive been seeing some things about this on fb so I googled it, and your blog came up. I was hoping it wasn’t true to be honest, but it must be or it would t be in so much literature, advertisements, postcards etc. the depth of cruelty we have perpetrated on Africans and African Americans never ceases to shock and enrage me. This horrible part of my white heritage hurts me too. I know collectively, if I could speak as one group of people, to another group of people, that is not enough, and won’t ever be…
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I’m reading these comments and I’m shakin my head in disbelief at how the white commentors are doubting the truthfulness of this historic account! DISPITE the many many pictures, post cards, oral and written documentations!!! Dr. Joy Leary-DeGruy says that this type of dismissive disbelief is a form of “cognitive dissonance”. Gosh ppl! These horrific things really really DID happen! Just like the Jewish Holicost! Believe it! Most of YOUR American ancestors participated in these attrosities. (excuse my spelling)
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[…] […]
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“Cognitive Dissonance” perhaps if We jump to modern day reports of Blackmen being fed to Lions might help with CLARITY!!!
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A white farmer who threw the body of his fired black worker into a lions’ pen has been freed on parole after less than three years in prison.
The case drew worldwide attention and impassioned protests from demonstrators who saw the killing as another racial attack in a country still grappling with its apartheid past.
Mark Scott-Crossley was sentenced to life imprisonment in 2005 for assaulting Nelson Chisale, a former employee, and throwing his body to lions at his game farm who devoured him. The Supreme Court of Appeal reduced the sentence to five years, saying there was no proof Chisale had been alive when he was fed to the animals.
According to trial testimony, Chisale had been fired from Scott-Crossley’s construction business at the game farm and returned two months later to collect his belongings. When he did, he was attacked with machetes and tied to a stake, where he was left bleeding for six or seven hours before being thrown into a lion enclosure.
Only Chisale’s skull and some gnawed bones and bloody clothing were found.
Another farm worker was sentenced to 15 years for carrying out the assault, but the trial judge said Scott-Crossley was the mastermind.
The Confederation of South African Trade Unions slammed his release. “It is clear that those who are rich and white will continue to be treated differently to those who are poor,” it said.
COSATU criticized the fact that the Supreme Court had indicated that Chisale was dead before he was thrown to the lions, but did not rule on who killed him.
A prison official, Sarie Peens, was quoted as telling the South African Press Association that Scott-Crossley was moved from Baberton Prison and taken to a “reintegration” office where he was met by his family Thursday.
The report did not give a reason for his early release. It is common in South Africa for convicts to be freed early to ease prison overcrowding.
“He is now being placed under strict conditions on parole until completion of his sentence,” SAPA quoted Peens as saying.
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I wish we had alligators here in Chicago
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^You can find them in the dermatology offices on the White side of town. Comes from too many years lying in the sun.
Ask you wife it she’s one?
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@ King….Lol!!!
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This is not funny and I cant see how leaving children as aligator bait could ever be funny in any culture. I hate to see any baby killed of any race or species. Its just sick.How some people think most people may have thought it was ok is way beyond my way of thinking.
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Gee another conspiracy from a leftist racist.
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[…] other day, through a randomly speculative Google search, Hugo and I came across this blog entry on black babies serving as bait for alligators in the American South. The phrase ‘alligator […]
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I don’t know if this is some grotesque urban legend, but I don’t put it past these subhumans that would commit such atrocities. If they had post cards of lynchings then this is possible as well. Talk about evil being in the hearts of men.
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I had never even heard of “alligator baiting” before, but I wouldn’t doubt that it’s true. It’s just sickens and saddens me so.
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Reblogged this on … but I digress and commented:
Key comment from Black Butterfly : “Racism persists because people would like to believe in the humanity of the inhumane. ”
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2010/08/11/alligator-bait/#comment-62326
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after reading what white people did to people of african descent, i´m not surprised anymore, not at all…i just find it funny that some “whites” would try hard to dismiss it , change the subject or twist the facts, as if they are not capableof doing that or as if we have to prove them anything “no i don´t beleive it, symbolism , not all white blablabla” but the facts are here for everyone to see…actually it´s not the first time i hear or read about it…someone who is familiar with the history of african-descended people in regard to the uprising white supremacy would not be surprise at all..even in the slave ships, the african babies were taken from their mothers and thrown to the sharks as “joke” i guess “white jokes” this deshumanization of africans didn´t start in the south, i can´t imagine what a baby might feel..thrwed into the ocean, not knowing how to swimm and being ripped apart by sharks, while his parents look at it and the whites saviors are lauging….or the story of pregnat women who were publicly torture , whose bellies were open in a gruesome way and the babies killed in the eye for the assistance… pure gore! and i wouldn´t be surprised this people were “good christians” who “feared god” , and i would like to ask to black christians: where was your christian god when all that happened? where?
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Why would anyone NOT believe this?? White people used Blacks as slaves- SLAVES! They didn’t consider them human! Why on earth would they flinch at using their children as alligator bait any more than they would flinch at using worms or chum for fish bait?!
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I believe this can be very true…..as willie lynch believed in using fear tactics to control slave colonies such as tearing apart a strong buck to teach all the women to fear the master more than the man of there race therefore allowing to sew weakness in there threads of all there young youth coming up to carry on there absolute control …..therefore a few slave babies used as bate doesn’t seem too far out of reach……
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Even if this is true, blacks to this day do much worse to each other in Africa and in mini Africas like Detroit Michigan.
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Drew, please take away the “if”….so much historical data! And black on black crime does NOT compare to using babies as bait! Smdh…geesh!
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Reblogged this on Sungod64's Blog.
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What make u people think that Caucasians did not do this. Slaves was considered as property to slave owners and nothing more. Anytime you can work a person from sun up to sun down and treated them less than cattle you are an evil person. Yes, this did happen and there is no use of denying it now. No more proof is needed because this is reality.
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http://www.change.org/petitions/national-parks-service-investigate-alcatraz-cruises-for-ignoring-rampant-racial-discrimination-among-its-employees
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Words fail me…America will never change.
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[…] https://abagond.wordpress.com/2010/08/11/alligator-bait/ […]
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Next, the Loch Ness Monster with stories and pictures some folk lore is very odd even with some reality in it. I think of Hans Christian Andersen are those real? I am sure I could find someone that would say they are and tons of art related to the stories as well. In this light it is sad and gut wrenching but what is the goal to bring races together or feed an already gulf that is not getting any closer between whites and blacks?
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This is just vile and despicable. Every time you think you’ve seen the worst things their demonic race has done, along comes something like this.
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@Racist?
If I am not mistaken someone in the comment section actually posted newspaper articles on advertisements for it. Sorry but it is better if you do research on these things than to convince yourself of it being false.
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@Sharina
Thanks, I had not read the comments and still could not get past the likes of africanblackmilitant and he reeks of the gulf between us. I am proud to be the mixed races that I am, yes mostly white, while other are so filled with hate they reek of it and no one will point it out because they have there badge of color. My grandfather was shot by a German my father by a Vietnamese I do not hate Germans or Vietnamese we can all find reasons and justification for hate or to manipulate another group in this case the whites did it a hundred years ago and now blacks think they will shame there future generations the same way “Racist”. Yet the people here think they will guilt or change anything by pointing out what is more then likely has some sick start in truth but for the most part morphed in to folk lore or sick humor from a time without the clean entertainment we have today of movies, TV and music. 🙂 To be judged by 50 cents words, or NWA would certainly shed a poor light on some communities and I am sure when the pendulum swings it will, that is human nature. I could go on but I “feel” this is a much more emotional driven dialogue then anything that could be found in logic or understanding. The same moral indignation that drives this blog is the same moral indignation that would drive a partial birth abortion blog, now we call it “choice” as we inject the heart of a child thorough the mothers womb so to humanly end its life. A irony I am sure is lost to many in this crowd even when it is so painfully obvious.
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If you keep digging, no matter what color you are, race, heritage, tribe, clan, etc.. you’ll find out that each of us is equally screwed up. This is a horrible thing, but remember, ALL races have done similar things, either to other races, or their own people. When we dig for history, if you wish to do so, dig for ALL of it. Also, digging just to be more angry, I don’t understand that. History is important to learn from mistakes, but to live in it is not a good thing.
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Human beings have the ability to be evil beyond all of our comprehension, no matter what color, what walk of life, or any of the other things we utilize to categorize and measure up against one another. Where ever and when ever you have any group of people thinking that they are “better” or “superior” to another, these kinds of situations can possibly happen…history has shown us over and over. If we ignore the patterns that have presented themselves throughout history, they are bound to repeat themselves.
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My father (who is passed away now), told me a little story about this very thing happening when he was a young man. He didn’t give me all the details, but apparently he once met a family in the southeastern part of the country, perhaps Florida or South Carolina, who used the baby as a lure to catch an alligtor. The oldest son was instructed by his mother to take the baby down to the river to catch and kill one. My dad was invited along with him, so off they went. To make a long story short, the young man somehow secured the baby to a tree. spanked his little bottom so he would cry, and thereby lured an alligator to shore. Before the animal could reach the baby it was killed. The objective was to have “‘gator tails and rice” for dinner. From the way it sounded, this was a common method of catching them..
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Yes I believe this did happen. Blacks were less than human back then to whites. Nothing but cargo and property. That’s it. Their lives ment nothing to most whites back then. There are a lot of “Atrocities” that aren’t being told in the history books. Just like we are all told about what the Germans did to the Jews during WWII….and how bad it was…but nooooobody speaks on the same atrocities that took place that were just as bad when the Japs invaded China. Like the “Rape of Nanking” for example. Yet we are only focused on what happened to the Jews…smh There are other atrocities that aren’t spoken of…..Like the bombing and burning down of “The Black Wallstreet” (Tulsa OK)……”Rosewood”…….”Wilmington NC”…..and many many others small towns like a couple in Arkansas…where blacks were massacred and murdered, ran off, and their property taken. Whites documented this…but as usual, they have disappeared over time. To hide the embarrassment.
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Im from Louisiana that baby could have been me or my son horrific story
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White people aka Edomites are a grotesque and evil race. Look at history, their evil knows no bounds. Their evil exists today. Look at how they continue to perpetuate hate in the black community that beautiful black people cannot see their worth. But read the holy bible and you will know that the end for the whites will be far worse than all the depravity they have done. I believe that a remnant of them will be saved but very few.
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This is particular practice is difficult to characterize. Any descriptive word I think of selecting flees with terror. The people who did this did not feel anything at all for those children.
Now I recall that white people have always said that we are not what they are. And to that we’ve been responding, “Oh yes we are! Come let us be one family!” But over time I’ve been brought around to their position. We are not the same!
But whereas they say we are subhuman I think the shoe is on the other foot. When they say black people have never “done anything” they really mean we have never done as they have. So in their megalomania they disparage us for deciding, as a collective, not to pursue their evil ways. I will thank them for the compliment but I won’t return it.
It seems likely that whites have heart/ib/ego and spirit/ka/life but no soul/ba/superego. Therefore spirituality and the sense of cosmic connectedness that would come from having a higher self is totally lacking. 2/3rd human….0.666… Combine that with a stubborness born from narcissism and they become entirely selfish when left to their own devices thus bringing evil upon others. May their end come quickly!
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@ abagond
You know what? Comments like the above from Origin and the other from Average Bee give credence to the allegation that this is an extremist space.
The vast majority of the posts and comments on here are completely on point. But why do you tolerate this? It is very obviously hate speech.
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@wordynerdygirl
If you find it all to be “hateful speech” don’t come back to this website and most importantly don’t read the comments if you find them offensive. Black people have had to suffer in silence for a very long time, please don’t take that away too. That’s what I’ll never understand about whites you want nothing to do with our race any other time except to explain that these events have happened a “long time ago and to get over it”. Ok, so I suggest you do that now if you don’t like the website because the truth is unbearable just “get over it”.
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@Ruth
Actually wordynerdygirl is not the type to silence black people or any poc. Though some do I don’t categorize her as such.
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@ Ruth
I understand what you mean about this being a safe space. It would be completely inappropriate to complain about people venting when institutional racism is still such a reality.
I would never tell anyone to ‘get over it’ and I would not criticise remarks like, “I hate how white people do x” or even, “I hate white people because of x”. That is venting and often the commenter has good reason for expressing those feelings.
But I don’t think it’s right to tolerate comments that promote exterminating or causing violence to people of any race. Origin said, ‘May their end come quickly.”
@ Sharina
Thank you.
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Do not think for one moment that there is no veracity to these story. If black people only knew half the creative ways Caucasians dreamed up to torture, maim, and outright murder black people they would be appalled. The way they murdered black slaves during slavery was so vicious that it would make a brass monkey cringe.
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George Ryder – excellent quote
“People fail to get along because they fear each other; they fear each other because they don’t know each other; they don’t know each other because they have not communicated with each other.”
Fear can make people do terrible things – or be used to justify doing terrible things they wanted to do anyway.
I had never heard of gator bait in these terms. I have heard the term, but it was a cruel thing fathers scared children with (threats of it). I never considered it could be real. Dang – that’s freaking depraved.
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I just cant wrap my head around this sort of atrocity. How could they say we weren’t human when they had no concept of what a human was. I am surprised that all we did was spit in their water or peed or pooped in a pie. I thought that was gross and almost threw up my popcorn at the movie theater while watching “The Help”. I don’t think we have that in us to treat another human being In that way. How can a people be so evil and unfeeling? Where did they come from and Lord have mercy on their souls (if they have a soul) I feel sorry for anyone who harbors that much hatred and resentment for a race of people, It’s sad because if there is a hell they are going there for sure. I listen to some of the comments on News shows remarks made about the first African American President and how much some of these people who would do things like this have said about him such as Rush Limbaugh and Ted Nugent among others. It’s is mind blowing and pitiful I want to feel sorry for them but I haven’t gotten there yet. However I am working on it..They say forgiveness releases all the anger and hurt you feel and brings you closer to God. I will be praying for my soul as well as the haters.
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@Helen H. Smith
Helen, you seem like a very nice person to even consider forgiving something as atrocious as this. It’s not something I will ever do, and I don’t feel bad in the least about that. Just read through some of their racist excuses, denials, and mockery on this thread and other posts by Abagond and you’ll see why. I hope your prayers go to a worthier cause.
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Sorry to blow the safe place for the racist (are you racist if your black??) You have found a at best extremely rare if there is any truth in it story and created a rally cry for crimes that have not even taken place within a 100 years and have never been noted in a criminal case or even a newspaper of time that I can find. One I am sure would seem tame to what happens on a daily bases in Chicago, Detroit, Atlanta ect… to speak about the evil of the dumb whites that killed 600,000 plus of there own country men to free you from slavery (civil war) Slavery that was first legally fought for in the Colonial time and won in court by Anthony Johnson the first man to “own” a black on US soil, oh by the way he was black!!! Look it up. @ Ruth bless your ignorance it must be bliss but without the white man you would only have Africa that sea of tolerance and bliss and now you own Detroit and so many other safe places please if there was a way I could stop Anthony Johnson from fighting to make slavery legal in the US and importing of blacks after I am sure we would all be much better off, Right??
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The white man is the devil, straight up. They even lied about who and what the devil was just to keep people thinking that it was something else. Collectively, they are the wickedest people on the face of the earth! Period!
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@Racist?
“You have found a at best extremely rare if there is any truth in it story and created a rally cry for crimes that have not even taken place within a 100 years and have never been noted in a criminal case or even a newspaper of time that I can find.”—-Or one that you even searched for. There is actually someone in the comment section that posted a link to a newspaper of the time with an advertisement for it. I suggest you use something other than yahoo google or the usual searches. Try a library. Considering the time why would a criminal case be brought up?
So before you attempt to bless someone else ignorance it would be better if you took the time to bless yours. You assume that somehow life is better for blacks here than it would have been had they not been sold into slavery? How so? What makes you believe that (other than your ignorance)? I mean heck if not sold they would have had their own land anyway, there own culture, their own language, etc.
Speaking of your ignorance Anthony Johnson was not ” the first man to “own” a black on US soil.” Here is a link so you can better educated your self on exactly what it was that he was first to do. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Johnson_%28colonist%29
I usually counsel against providing half truths but I would then need to charge you because you provided more than my free charges will allow.
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For those that are still delusional about the validity of this claim here is a link. To a newspaper article talking about it. Read the OCR text
http://www.newspapers.com/newspage/3342145/
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Excellent post Sharina.
Additionally, Racist should explore abagond’s “Africans sold their own people” thread for the excellent commentary from Mr. Waller that debunked the Anthony Johnson meme. Interesting how John Punch being the first documented US slave is conveniently overlooked.
@Racist, you do realize that Blacks have fought in every war, including the Civil War right? You do realize that Africa had thriving civilizations before Europeans reached and ruined its shores right? Also, there’s a reason why Europeans and more recently the Chinese continue to invest (cough steal) Africa’s abundant resources.
Some love to use cities like Chicago & Detroit as the poster child for crime and dysfunction. However when you actually research the local news you find better depictions of what’s happening.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sns-201308301530–tms–msanchezctnms-a20130830-20130830,0,1815067.column
http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2013/09/26/chicago-not-actually-murder-capital-of-well-anything/
http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/20436-what-the-media-isnt-telling-you-about-detroits-bankruptcy
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/07/28/detroit-myths-and-truths-about-bankruptcy/2593001/
I’m sure we can agree that the world would be better off if more people took time to read/research instead of spewing half truths, right?
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Black history is drenched in pain and suffering when it comes to this country. It seems every achievement made by someone black in this world who isn’t a celebrity of some type is hidden or down played. I hate the fact that we are looked at as inferior by cultures that are brand new to this country. I have a Asian friend whom was born and raised in china that the news from America is all about blacks committing crimes and how Asians must be extra careful around blacks when they come here. Ignorance is far and wide reaching, people!
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@bygodsloveandgrace
Thank you and I love the links you provided. I agree with your post wholeheartedly. Half truth is why individuals like Racist find themselves in the situation they do. The higher ups keep them ignorant for a reason.
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@Sharina
“The higher ups keep them ignorant for a reason.”
Amen.
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@ bygodsloveandgrace
Da Jokah and I first crossed swords on the topic of Detroit, but since we were off topic, I doubt if anyone now knows what thread it was in 🙂
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@ King
It annoys me to no end how the media uses crime/minorities and unions as a smoke screen for Detroit’s bankruptcy ills.
Especially when bad government policies resulted in Detroit’s automakers outsourcing cheap labor overseas, union pensions were destroyed resulting in lost city revenue and bank mortgage schemes condemned the city to abandoned properties.
These elements provided a perfect storm to move out the poor and pave the way to rebuild the city for developers. That’s why Governor Rick Snyder is so enthusiastic about a turnaround. Towards the end of last year there were emerging stories about young developers already making plans to revitalize the city… These tactics are nothing new but, yeah, racists want to blame it on Black people.
I’d love to see your Detroit exchange with DJ if you can find it!
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@ bygodsloveandgrace
The usual culprit is the Black governors and their administrations which I disagree with as the primary problem.
As for the Auto industry however, I’m afraid that the Unions and the Management were both to blame for many bad decisions that killed the golden goose. But I agree that there were many other factors. Nothing is ever quite as simple as it seems.
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@ King,
“The usual culprit is the Black governors and their administrations which I disagree with as the primary problem.”
Thanks for that additional context. It seems like cities’ infrastructures were deteriorating well before and right as Black leaders take office. (le sigh).
“Nothing is ever quite as simple as it seems.”
Sometimes I think that’s by design. Those in power thrive in between the spaces of complexity…
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@ bygodsloveandgrace
Detroit was kind of screwed because of the way the city was set up apart from it’s expanding suburbs. The way the city charter was written, the city could not expand into it’s suburbs and utilize them as a tax base. That’s why the infrastructures were deteriorating since the late 1950s.
Many other factors didn’t help either, a confluence of deterioration and neglect.
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Pamela
This is just vile and despicable. Every time you think you’ve seen the worst things their demonic race has done, along comes something like this.
—————————————————————————————————–
Thats because its fake.
There is no need to make up rediculous storys about how white people practice racism. This story is nonsense and you guys fell for it.
Whats next?
White people using black peoples skin to make shoes?
(((shakin my head)))
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@ King
Ok I promise this my last question…
Can Detroit restore its industrious glory and attract young professionals?
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@ king – Detroit was kind of screwed because of the way the city was set up apart from it’s expanding suburbs. The way the city charter was written, the city could not expand into it’s suburbs and utilize them as a tax base. That’s why the infrastructures were deteriorating since the late 1950s.
So it’s white’s fault for not letting blacks sponge off them? You’ve just admitted that blacks are incapable of maintaining a civilization on their own.
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Ah good.
For once I am glad to see you, Jokah.
What was that thread that we were discussing Detroit on some time ago?
I can’t seem to remember it.
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Hang on. I’ll go spend the next 4 hours looking for it. haha
I remember the discussion. What did you want to know?
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@ bygodsloveandgrace
restore its industrious glory: Difficult, because the world economy has changed. When Detroit was the number 1 car manufacturer in the world, Japan and Korea were not producing cars and the largest car market was the U.S. Today the largest automobile market is China. If Detroit wants to be the number 1 car manufacturer in the world again, they will need an edge. So possible but difficult.
attract young professional: Jobs and social attractions bring young professionals. Detroit needs an industry of some kind. It doesn’t have to be cars, but it has to be something. They also need to fix their city charter and tax code. Again, quite possible, but needs the right circumstances to happen
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And why not you tenebrous derelict?!! What better use of your time?
I can’t remember what thread it was in?
I don’t suppose you happen remember offhand?
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There’s no way to find something from months ago on this blog.
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OFF TOPIC: Detroit or ANY deflection that turns attention away from alligator bait onto supposed black shortcomings.
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@King
Thanks for your insights! Per abagond’s note, I’ll refrain from any further Detroit comments that detract from the alligator bait topic. May take this convo over to Open Thread another time.
Have a fantastic day.
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@ Thwack: Comment on Joe Louis deleted for being way off topic.
https://abagond.wordpress.com/comment-policy/
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@ Da Jokah
Continue it on the Open Thread.
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@ Da Jokah
Oh well, thanks for looking anyway.
@ bygodsloveandgrace
No worries! And the same to you.
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@ Thwack : Comment on Detroit deleted for being off-topic.
https://abagond.wordpress.com/comment-policy/
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@ Thwack
I declared Detroit off-topic:
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2010/08/11/alligator-bait/#comment-215852
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i am black and i find these images CUTE.
i can’t imagine it ever happened for real, but even if it did, it doesn’t mean the whole depiction is nasty. my pasty white husband worships the ground i walk on, yet he calls me “bait” all the time. i find it amusing. just as when he calls me “c**n” or “n*gger”. it’s satire.
if a jerk of ANY race did these with ill intent, it would be unforgivable. but therein lies the difference.
racism comes from the heart. stop harping on specific words or specific images.
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julie id
I have a friend who is a psychiatrist. Perhaps she can refer you to someone because you need help. In the meantime I suggest you stop pretending to be a black female and step away from the computer.
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@ Racist: Comment deleted for using a racial slur.
https://abagond.wordpress.com/comment-policy/
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With all the shooting deaths of Travon Martin and Jordan Davis, and the stand your ground mentality the state of Florida, next to Alabama and Misssissippi is notorious for being racist, so this is probably not just an urban myth. It probably did happen. If they could eat their picnic lunches and take photographs and make postcards of black people being lynched, this is probably true.
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1) every so often a white baby is attacked/eaten by a dog, either due to an accident or to a very sick individual. does that make the coppertone logo offensive?
if the acts depicted in this thread ever happened for real, it is ATROCIOUS. nothing more, nothing less. but the CARTOONS are cute. i can find similar images of little irish kids being bitten, eaten, chopped up, who knows what. it means nothing.
many cartoons, both still and animated, are sadistic at their core. how many times has elmer fudd had his head blown off? shall we start a long diatribe about elder abuse? are we as a race so utterly FECKLESS that we cannot be portrayed in a similar manner without causing high holy outrage?
you diminish those who truly suffered back in the day — INCLUDING alligator victims, if any — by whining about a bunch of cartoons. GET OVER IT.
2) i dunno about Racist’s comment but what about my own complaining of Sharina’s ad hominems? i point out that he/she has broken your rules, u delete MINE? what thu…?
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@mary burrell: if these were news photos of actual lynch victims, i would be with you 100%. likewise if these were news photos of actual kids being fed to alligators or even being used to taunt alligators.
but these are neither. they are STAGED photos of little boys going “oops!” as phony alligators get too close. aside from how cute the kids are, u cannot convince me that a SINGLE picture shown here involved a kid/model in peril for even a moment.
move along, folks.
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@julie id
In order for me to have committed a proper ad hominem then it would have first required that you made an argument. Only thing you said was your husband likes to call you racial slurs and you like it. Thus I referred you to someone who can better assist you with your mental issues (pretending to be black to make your case etc).
Newsflash! These pictures actually depict something that REALLY happened. I will post the newspaper article for you so you can see and no I don;t care to prove you wrong. Just to make you look more ignorant than you have already don to yourself.
http://www.newspapers.com/newspage/3342145/
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are there no mods here? what’s the point of having a lengthy “rules” page, if none of them are to be enforced.
bad link, btw. but i get your point.
ever heard of halloween? ever seen twilight? see silence of the lambs?
horrid things have all happened in the realworld; how does that make a fictional — much less CARTOON — portrayal offensive?
people get murdered every day. u wanna ban law & order? much less REN & STIMPY?
oh, and if u can’t handle the n-word being used as satire/humour/etc, suggest u don’t watch any chris rock, d h hugley, ralphie may, lenny bruce, george carlin, etc.
ted danson didn’t don blackface that infamous night out of the clear BLUE, u know. clearly whoopi must have indicated she found similar things amusing in the past.
unfortunately, a bunch of holier-than-thou types in the audience — of several races — simply aren’t as bright as whoopi. our ancestors are laughing at us.
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@ Julie id
It is not a bad link, but one that requires a subscription to see the actual article; though you don’t even need that to see the text of the article which can be found by simply scrolling down.
“horrid things have all happened in the realworld; how does that make a fictional — much less CARTOON — portrayal offensive?”—Actually it does. A person’s pain is only funny to someone with some serious mental issues.
“people get murdered every day. u wanna ban law & order? much less REN & STIMPY”—Yes, people do get murdered every day, but I don’t find humor in it. I’m sorry but please point me to the law and order episode that has made a joke out of another’s pain rather than simply portraying it in different lights? You have made a false comparison. I will give you a chance to try again. Perhaps you care to try again? If not then I will seriously respond to the ridiculousness of your comment.
“oh, and if u can’t handle the n-word being used as satire/humour/etc, suggest u don’t watch any chris rock, d h hugley, ralphie may, lenny bruce, george carlin, etc.”—I don’t watch so your point is moot.
“unfortunately, a bunch of holier-than-thou types in the audience — of several races — simply aren’t as bright as whoopi. our ancestors are laughing at us.”—Not really a fan of any of the individuals you mentioned. While your ancestors are laughing at you mine are giving me a head nod and a high five.
Good Day. 🙂
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i’ve already pointed out: elmer fudd gets his HEAD BLOWN OFF many a time.
there are real people — some of them resembling him — that have had this happen in the real world…often at the hands of others. is the entire world sick for laughing at elmer fudd, or slighting the feelings of the families involved in the real world incidents?
what are you missing here? reality is reality, cartoons are cartoons. if u find the postcards above offensive, you should dismiss most of the looney tunes catalog.
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@juli
e id
Alrighty then…. It is very unfortunate to see you were serious about your ridicules comment. Smh*
Elmer Fudd is not real he is a cartoon and he is not a depiction of a real life situation. In most cases he “blows” his own head off. There are few if any incidents where a real life person’s head is blown off due to their own stupidity and if that so happens even then it is not funny. Only sadistic individuals with serious mental issues would find such a thing remotely funny. Only people with mental issues have problems separating cartoon from reality.
The real question is what are YOU missing? I made myself clear as day in my other posts and the fact that you continuously ask questions to things I have answered tells me you are slow or you are trying to excuse your mental state. I never once mentioned to you what I did or did not think of this post. My initial response was to the utter nonsense you wrote and nothing more. This exchange has not gone on long and you are already confused. *smh
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“Only people with mental issues have problems separating cartoon from reality.”
oh good, well at least you’ve come around to the idea that cartoon depictions of ANYTHING are simply not offensive. for a while there i thought you were objecting to the comic postcards at the top of this thread.
guess we’re on the same side. now where can i ORDER some of those cards?
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@others (not sharina this time) — what is with the gratuitous potshots against republicans in this thread? lincoln was a republican, MLK was a republican, malcolm x, though not a republican, was a self-professed “conservative”.
republicans passed the civil rights bill while the democrats fought it tooth and nail.
most slaveholders were southern democrats, and, 100 years later, most KKK were democrats. including the last one to disgrace our senate, the late robert byrd.
but ooooooooh, the democrats start handing out welfare the past 20-30 years, and suddenly everybody forgets all the damage they’ve done to us for most of our history. (i would actually INCLUDE the welfare in that, but even if u considered that their lone POSITIVE contribution…)
*smh*
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@ Julie id
Since 1936 there has been a huge realignment in American politics, with Blacks becoming mostly Democrats and the more racist Whites, particularly in the South, becoming mostly Republicans. Further, both parties have shifted markedly to the right since 1980.
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Julie id
We are far from on the same side. You simply chose to switch to talking about cartoons when I told you you need mental help, yet you are truly clueless to what mental help you need and continue to ramble on about meager irrelevance (cartoons). I asked a serious question of you above and you divert back to cartoons. YOU have proven your inability to separate the two. YOU tried to use law and order to make a case and when it failed jumped back on the cartoon wagon.
In short I would be more than happy to refer you to someone.
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@ Julie id
Even if we assume it is all made up, that it is just “cartoon violence”, why are all the victims Black? Whites can make whole television shows where everyone is White. They get upset if a beloved character is cast as Black. Why then, this sudden fit of “diversity” long before the civil rights movement?
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“for a while there i thought you were objecting to the comic postcards at the top of this thread.”—-Really? So do point to a place in my post where I said anything about those comic postcards. Because if you find that then I will be less inclined to believe you need mental help.
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um…okaaaay, i guess. so you’re talking about something completely UNRELATED to this thread, and i’m at fault for assuming you were commenting on the subject at hand?
the ENTIRE THREAD is about those images and the postcards depicting them! if you were saying nothing one way or the other about this topic, i dunno why you’re even in this thread. there are plenty of other threads about “black issues” in general — why not join one of those instead of mocking me for staying ON-topic in this one?
????
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@ Julie id
Talking more only highlights your mental issues or stupidity. The more you talk the more I am certain about what I said in the beginning.
“so you’re talking about something completely UNRELATED to this thread, and i’m at fault for assuming you were commenting on the subject at hand?”—–YOU started out talking about something irrelevant in which I responded to, so you ASSUMING was merely a result of you either deflecting or having no clue what you are talking about to begin with. That is your own fault.
“the ENTIRE THREAD is about those images and the postcards depicting them! “—Really? Ummm no. The entire thread is actually about using black kids as alligator bait (even more proof you have no clue) YOU decided to enlighten us that you enjoy your husband calling you racial slurs as seen here: https://abagond.wordpress.com/2010/08/11/alligator-bait/#comment-217121
Also in this link you can see where you tried to say the situation was not “real.” It is best if you read what actually happened instead of making it up and trying to play victim.
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i give up. if abagond has no intention of enforcing that “no ad hominems” rule, what’s the point of having it?
—–
so the baiting thing happened…once? twice? a hundred times? once again, how does that extend to silly depictions of it? sweeney todd is a comedy about a serial killer. the producers is a comedy about the nazis…as is hogan’s heros…as is charlie chaplin’s dictator. M*A*S*H is a comedy about the korean war, which plods on to this day.
millions, i say it, MILLIONS died in those very real events, and yet society finds nothing offensive in their depictions. jews watch hogan’s heroes. M*A*S*H had a run on south korean tv. so black kids are about to be eaten…ON A POSTCARD! big whoop.
u yourself sided with me in that “reality is reality; fiction is fiction”. don’t backpeddle now.
oh, and learn what a “reliable source” is. the articles u cite are spurious at best. i can cite articles showing black babies devoured by aliens.
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I pointed out the current news with a form of “hunting” that refers to white people being targeted by gangs for shootings and attacks and another “game” that is about knocking out people in no way a racist and currently all over the news as how I said them. In that same light would not gator bait be racist? and calling the white man a _______ I will not repeat but you can just go to African_Black_Militant comment above and see for yourself also repeated in HRH Djehuty Heru comments. I think again this is about me make people unconformable in there own racism that is the real issue. Pointing out facts that are not popular to the current narrative being spoon feed here and in the media.
Yes Anthony Johnson was the man that changed indentured servitude to legally in the courts constitute ownership. Indentured servitude is a contract between two equal parties (yes many examples of misuse) and ownership is property. Look it up and you will find more then a Oakland paper from the 1923 well after the civil war and some cartoons to validate it.
Living in the pain of a past that is not even your own is sad to say the least, it may have been a part of your races history but it is not yours. In that light there are so many wrongs every person on the plant could hold dear too but does it do anything to move good people forward, No. You reading this before you delete it is enough. Just remember when you point at someone else there are three fingers pointing back at you.
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@Racist,
The “knockout” phenomenon portrayed in some right wing media outlets was debunked. There’s plenty of public information confirming this. It’s amazing how you managed to correlate it to a historical piece on alligator bait.
Anthony Johnson was NOT the first documented case for perpetual servitude. It is a popular meme used to deflect from the truth. How does John Casor’s case from 1654 supersede John Punch’s case from 1640? The court decisions are being misrepresented in the full context of US slavery’s beginnings. Considering slavery can be traced back to the 1500s, why do some choose to be intellectually dishonest? Also, there are plenty of people on this blog who’ve provided additional links/information on Johnson.
https://suite101.com/victor-jackson/correcting-ignorance-about-anthony-johnson
Click to access timeline.pdf
Finally, we’re not here to “live in the past.” Many of us are reflecting on historical events and sharing our present experiences. Your comments convey exactly why abagond’s site is needed and appreciated.
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@ Julie id
Once again you make an irrelevant post. Everything you said is nothing more than a deflection and simply does not address the points at all. You bring in all kind of nonsense in hopes of excusing the real issue that this post brought to light. It has nothing to do with your silly postcards. The post cards were just visuals. Try reading the post itself to find out what it is REALLY talking about.
“u yourself sided with me in that “reality is reality; fiction is fiction”. don’t backpeddle now. “—At what point did I ever say I agreed with you? Please quote that. I put it plain and simple that I thought you were crazy from the jump and that you have no clue what the difference really is between reality and fiction. You keep proving just that. I mean this sentence I quoted of yours shows you are not mentally stable enough to realize what I said verse what you THINK I said.
“oh, and learn what a “reliable source” is. the articles u cite are spurious at best. i can cite articles showing black babies devoured by aliens.”—If you believe a newspaper source is unreliable then it comes of no surprise that you believe in aliens. Talk to me when you can dispute my source which is from the Oakland tribute September 21, 1923.
*and honey you have only proven me more so you are not stable in the slightest.
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@Racist?
Facts facts blah blah blah. People like you always whine about how you are pointing out facts but fail every time to provide one source to you deluded facts. Perhaps you mistake your facts with opinions (seems more likely).
“Yes Anthony Johnson was the man that changed indentured servitude to legally in the courts constitute ownership. Indentured servitude is a contract between two equal parties (yes many examples of misuse) and ownership is property. Look it up and you will find more then a Oakland paper from the 1923 well after the civil war and some cartoons to validate it.”—It is crying shame that you took all this time to write something so stupid. My article had nothing to do with Anthony Johnson and had you actually read it you would know that. My article had to do with advertisements for gator bait. As for Anthony Johnson, he didn’t change something that was already going on. He simply won his right to make his servant his permanent slave. In 1619 a dutch slave trader traded his African slave cargo for food. If you cared to read and educate yourself then you will know that it was not until 1655 that the issue between Anthony Johnson and his servant Casor arose. “Though Casor was the first person declared a slave in a civil case, there were both black and white indentured servants sentenced to lifetime servitude before him.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Johnson_%28colonist%29
“Living in the pain of a past that is not even your own is sad to say the least, it may have been a part of your races history but it is not yours. In that light there are so many wrongs every person on the plant could hold dear too but does it do anything to move good people forward, No. You reading this before you delete it is enough. Just remember when you point at someone else there are three fingers pointing back at you.”— I am sure you are also aware that knowledge is power and knowing something or learning about something is not living in the past. Had you lived to the idea of knowledge is power then it would have saved you from becoming a shining example of a stay in school ad. As for the saying “remember when you point at someone else there are three fingers pointing back at you” I am just amazed how people are quick to quote things at other people that seem to always apply to them. Project much?
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@bygodsloveandgrace
Excellent commentary and i am sorry I did not read it first.
People like racist see a black man with slaves and run with it without a care to actually read further and educate themselves on what is going on. They don’t realize that slave was not used in the books until 1650s so even if people were slaves prior that is not what they were called.
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@Sharina,
Thank you so much! Always a pleasure reading your perspectives as well.
I grow tired of people who spread misinformation or present “facts” out of context. There’s enough researched data out there for those who want to learn.
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Yes it always is a pleasure to validate your ideas by talking safely in a group that clearly shares what you already believe. I try to branch out and learn as I keep returning to her for more:) 🙂
Before Anthony Johnson there was no legal “sanctity of property” in regard to men owning men as stated in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Johnson_%28colonist%29. Thank you for validating my source. My point in Anthony Johnson is that if we are to look at things 100’s of years old it might be nice to understand a man that was an indentured servant after he earned his freedom then went to court to create a precedent for sanctity of property making legal ownership of a human a court recognized first. I just find it interesting that the white ____ was not the race that did that. Are there many other justification for calling whites names, yes many, even perhaps for using gator bait.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knockout_game also reference the “hunting” name right at the top and yes it can be argued as anything that it is being blown up by one side or the other. But its current and not 100+ years old. I just believe there are so many things more current then Alligator bait that can be used to show racism from a million different perspectives.
Knowledge is not power it is only a tool that can be very powerfully used but just possessing knowledge does nothing if you do not have any idea how to use it. So empower yourself by using some of vast knowledge you have to do something good for yourself and your race and work to stop the hate not feed it.
Now I apologize if there was something racist in my post that was deleted, it was not my intent and thank you for allowing a voice that is clearly not in agreement with almost anyone here to be heard. I don’t hate, but I don’t understand and I believe is time from me to move on. Thank you again.
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At no time has it occurred to me that the young girl in the famous Coppertone ad is being attacked by or that she is even in danger of being attacked by the c0cker spaniel, which appears to be her pet anyway and is tugging, not on her, but playfully on her underwear. If the spaniel or any other able-bodied dog wanted to attack her, there would be nothing stopping it as she has plenty of exposed flesh to sink its teeth into. That being the case, why waste time snatching hold of underwear?!
Besides which, the panty-pulling pet is an obvious device to promote Coppertone brand suntan lotion by showing its effect on her skin when contrasted with her newly exposed & untanned buttocks.
One of the ads is for a soap that removes “discolorations” (the Black baby being the ‘discoloration’ and the alligator, his ‘remover’). What, pray tell, however, is the ‘product’ being sold in most of these alligator bait depictions — other than the dehumanization of Black babies and children, that is?!
And If indeed it is cuteness that’s being sold, would not having a highly predatory animal – such as an alligator – attempting to attack and eat fearful, distracted or smiling white children / babies be just as cute?
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i’m outta here. u guys are waaaaaaaaaaay too racist for me.
nothing that happened to any of these people 150 years ago has ANYTHING to do with you, me, or anyone else of similar pigment. somehow you want to glom on to their pain and pretend that you share it. YOU DON’T.
that old white guy down the street…he has just as much “connection” to the victims of slavery as any of us. don’t you brats read MLK anymore?!
oh, and the knockout games were never “debunked”. what PLANET are you on? (oh, i forget, the same planet as a blogger who refers to our ever-increasing LUNGE toward left-wing politics as a “shift to the right”. LOL.)
take care. you guys need it!
PS: a ben carson lecture or two might help some of you….
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@ julie id
Context is everything.
If you saw a 1945 soap ad with a Jewish child in the foreground and a large burning oven, filled with skeletons in the background, and the Soap was called “Oven Bait,” would you think that it was cute?
…or would you put two and two together, a realize that the holocaust had made such ads less than cute at ANY TIME thereafter?
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@ Racist
The only reason you seem to branch out is to tell people your opinion and not learn anything. As displayed in your commentary.
The beautiful thing about message boards is you get to copy and paste things people originally said and bring it back to light for them, especially when they seek to backpeddle or change the goal. Allow me to do this for you…”Slavery that was first legally fought for in the Colonial time and won in court by Anthony Johnson the first man to “own” a black on US soil, oh by the way he was black!!! Look it up.”—I just quoted what you originally stated about Anthony Johnson. Now the interesting thing is that you decided to only quote 3 words from that post but allow me also to quote in full what the post says. “Casor considered the dispute to be a matter of patron-client relationship, and this wrongful assumption ultimately lost him the court and the decision. Johnson knew that the local justices shared his basic belief in the sanctity of property. “Now do you mind highlighting where it says there was no legal “sanctity of property” in regard to men owning men? I am sure you know better than to make up things as you go? My source also says “Many historians describe indentured servant John Punch as the first documented slave when he was sentenced to life in servitude as punishment for escaping in 1640. The Punch case was significant because it established the disparity between his sentence as a negro and that of the two European servants who escaped with him (one described as Dutch and one as a Scotchman). It is the first documented case of an African sentenced to lifetime servitude in Virginia and is considered one of the first legal cases to make a racial distinction between black and white indentured servants” So did you know that 1640 came before 1655 or do we need a math lesson here. As for your point it appears you have none. 🙂
As to the “hunting” game I never said it was 100 years old nor did I dispute that it did not exist. Please read what I said as it is becoming a bore redirecting and quoting things you failed to read. That is your perspectives of this post on Alligator bait not mine or anyone elses. So you are projecting your own ill feelings on how everyone else in here must feel. I empowered myself in more ways than you know which is why it was so easy for me to “correct” your mistakes above. What you are attempting to do is ensure that I am lacking knowledgeable empowerment as to be easily manipulated by individuals such as yourself or those at fox news. Sorry I am above that and who said I hated anyone? Your words and ideas not mine, so you can stop the projections.
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@julie id
Good, but I am still open to referring you to someone. She even said the first too sessions will be free.
You attempted to claim something as not real and you were proven wrong. Simple. No one indicated to you that they were holding on to these people’s pain or anything of the like. You are the one going off on some tangent about ideas and things that you made up in your head.
P.S. if it helps my psychiatrist friend is white.
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@Sharina
I’d love to bet on how long it’ll be before this ‘julie id’ person posts on this blog again, even though she claims to be “outta here”. I must say, her posts have been quite enlightening in that they show just how deep the rabbit hole goes with some people, even though I don’t believe for one second that this ‘julie id’ is either black or female. As far as I’ve seen in the years I’ve existed, racist craziness of that magnitude is not found in the black female population.
Back in January I posted a story on this thread about a baby being used as alligator bait. The story was told to me by my father, who saw it with his own eyes. I suggest that those who have doubts about the veracity of this phenomenon go back and read it.
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@Pamela & Sharina: I think Julie ID is that troll Asplund, i could be wrong, but this looks and sounds like Asplund.
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@Racist?
“Yes it always is a pleasure to validate your ideas by talking safely in a group that clearly shares what you already believe. I try to branch out and learn as I keep returning to her for more:) ”
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In other words, we provide you with additional information, context and perspective and you choose to ignore it. You’re not here to learn. You’re here to disrupt, derail and deflect for attention. There’s a distinction. Also, abagond’s readers offer several diverse opinions and engaging discussions across topics. We’re not a hive mind.
“Before Anthony Johnson there was no legal “sanctity of property” in regard to men owning men as stated in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Johnson_%28colonist%29. Thank you for validating my source. My point in Anthony Johnson is that if we are to look at things 100′s of years old it might be nice to understand a man that was an indentured servant after he earned his freedom then went to court to create a precedent for sanctity of property making legal ownership of a human a court recognized first. I just find it interesting that the white ____ was not the race that did that. Are there many other justification for calling whites names, yes many, even perhaps for using gator bait.”
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Anthony Johnson did not set a precedent for legal ownership of human property; this was documented decades earlier in cases like John Punch, or even in other state laws (see MA & CT below). You can spin things all you want, but as Sharina and I provided you with historical facts about or that preceded Anthony Johnson, trying to make him the first face of US slave ownership is intellectually dishonest.
Also from your same source, the below paragraph:
Though Casor was the first person declared a slave in a civil case, there were both black and white indentured servants sentenced to lifetime servitude before him. Many historians describe indentured servant John Punch as the first documented slave when he was sentenced to life in servitude as punishment for escaping in 1640.[16][17] The Punch case was significant because it established the disparity between his sentence as a negro and that of the two European servants who escaped with him (one described as Dutch and one as a Scotchman). It is the first documented case of an African sentenced to lifetime servitude in Virginia and is considered one of the first legal cases to make a racial distinction between black and white indentured servants.
Additional information from the link I shared:
In 1641, Massachusetts legalized slavery with their Massachusetts Body of Liberties. This charter specifically defines that a person could be owned if they were captives of war, willingly sold themselves or were sold to a person, or if they were judged to servitude by authority, meaning a sentence resulting normally as punishment for a crime. “Unlike Virginia, for example, which developed a legal framework for slavery in response to societal custom, the Massachusetts Bay and Plymouth colonies statutorily sanctioned slavery as part of the 1641 Body of Liberties a mere three years after the first blacks arrived. (2) Connecticut also established slavery before the Johnson vs. Parker case. Following battles with the natives, the Confederation decided that men could be captured, kept, and traded for Negroe servants. “The Connecticut Code of 1646, following this resolve in its language, recognizes Indian and negro slavery.” (3) This right to keep fugitives was extended in 1650 by the Inter-Colonial Treaty of Sept. 19, 1650 to include the intercourse of the New Englanders and the Dutch.(3)Both of these colonies established slavery before 1654. To accommodate these facts, the claim must now be changed to say “Anthony Johnson was the first slave owner in Virginia” yet, this is still not true.
The topic is about dehumanizing depictions of Black babies being used as alligator bait and our thoughts on its implications. The fact that you are linking irrelevant information to this thread instead of dealing with the subject matter is very telling.
“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knockout_game also reference the “hunting” name right at the top and yes it can be argued as anything that it is being blown up by one side or the other. But its current and not 100+ years old. But its current and not 100+ years old. I just believe there are so many things more current then Alligator bait that can be used to show racism from a million different perspectives. ”
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What does the “knockout game” game have to do with alligator bait? Why can’t the FBI & police link random acts to a concrete “trend”?
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/christandpopculture/2013/11/the-knockout-game-myth-and-its-racist-roots/
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/23/nyregion/knockout-game-a-spreading-menace-or-a-myth.html
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/fox-airs-inaccurate-report-on-media-fueled-knockout-game-hate-crime-against-elderly-black-man/
http://www.npr.org/blogs/codeswitch/2013/11/27/247366898/the-knockout-game-an-old-phenomenon-with-fresh-branding
Your discomfort with this topic won’t stop others from discussing it. This is not your blog. I happen to like learning various historical events. Why not participate on other threads that would interest you?
Also looks like the alligator bait topic is timelier than you suggest:
“The anti-black Alligator imagery has not completely disappeared. In 2000, a company called Fun-Damental Tools produced a series of talking animal cookie jars. When the head is tilted back, each of them says something like, “get your hand out of my cookie jar.” One of the animals in the series is an alligator. When his head is tilted back, the voice speaks in the old stereotypical dialect, “Mmm, mmm, those sho’ is some tasty cookies!” Although the item does not explicitly show Blacks being eaten by alligators, given the history discussed here, the choice made to have the alligator speak in such a stereotypical way seems too coincidental.
Custo Barcelona is a Spanish company which produces clothing known for its eye-catching graphic designs. They have a significant American audience. Around 2008, they produced a woman’s shirt using the old racist imagery discussed here. It was marketed and sold in the United States.”
http://www.authentichistory.com/diversity/african/3-coon/7-alligator/
“Knowledge is not power it is only a tool that can be very powerfully used but just possessing knowledge does nothing if you do not have any idea how to use it. So empower yourself by using some of vast knowledge you have to do something good for yourself and your race and work to stop the hate not feed it.”
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Yes. Perhaps take your own advice.
“Now I apologize if there was something racist in my post that was deleted, it was not my intent and thank you for allowing a voice that is clearly not in agreement with almost anyone here to be heard. I don’t hate, but I don’t understand and I believe is time from me to move on. Thank you again.”
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abagond would certainly let you know if anything you wrote was racist or deleted. You assuming so in advance implies insincerity in your intent. Your very commentary exposes hatred and blatant ignorance.
I encourage you to stay if you truly want to open yourself to learning different perspectives. However I won’t be surprised if we do not hear from you again.
God Bless.
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@Mary:
Thanks for the heads up Mary. I knew there had to be a logical explanation for those comments, because they simply don’t make sense.otherwise.
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bygodsloveandgrace: Sister, i hope that commenter Racist? was enlightened and educated by the knowledge you tried to provide them with. But, i feel you just threw your pearls to a swine, they don’t care, they didn’t come to this forum in good faith, they came to troll and be stupid. But i could be wrong.
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@mary,
Unfortunately, people who think like “Racist?” very rarely absorb different perspectives, even when backed up by facts. If he/she doesn’t return, I hope our comments enlighten others who may share similar views!
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Hey Ms Mary 🙂
bygodsloveandgrace, bless you for your efforts but Mary is right… this people don’t come here to be enlightened — they come here to disrupt and are petty “terrorists”….
Their goal is to spew their hate into the atmosphere and because Abagond is a very tolerant blog owner and truly exemplifies “democracy”– these racist butholes get to come here and put out their hate.
If you notice, they are all un-original and repeat the same things… new names, same old song…
I have no patience for them — it would be more productive to just ignore them but unfortunately, as you said before, some of their more Ignorant ramblings cannot remain unchallenged– because then their Lies and Fictions sit online and appear as if they are factual… and they know this and enjoy the interaction because that’s what turns them on!
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@Linda
Your comments are delightful and I’ve seen how you’ve expertly dealt with some of the trolls on here.
Agree with you and mary that attempting substantial conversations with internet trolls is futile! I sometimes can’t help but leverage these interactions to dispel misinformation. If we expose new readers to our knowledge/perspectives then it’s sometimes worth the aggravation.
Like you, I have little patience for troll BS. Typically I say my peace over a few exchanges and move on.
I wish these trolls would be more creative though. Hearing the same straw man arguments gets a little boring.
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@Pamela
I am wondering how long it will be before she or he returns as well. Possibly as a sock puppet who is just as ignorant.
@mary burrell
I agree and it is quite possible it is. He is the only other person who suffered from such mental issues that he could not remember the racial identity of his parents.
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@bygodsloveandgrace
Great comment once again. I have found that you can always tell what they are about the moment they ignore the key piece of information you provide with sources.
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@Pay it Forward
Very well put.
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Amen @Sharina..
BTW I was dying when I read your response to Racist as it felt like you were in my head. Bravo!
I’m in troll ignore mode for the rest of the night :).
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kudos to “king” above; actually making me rethink my position for the first time here. would that sharina et al were possessed with a similar flare for reason.
to show my gratitude, i will bless you with one last post.
yes, i would agree your example sounds tasteless. i guess the 3 distinctions here are that: 1) there are still people ALIVE who were nazi victims or direct family, 2) there were millions and millions of those “skeletons” whereas there were maybe — MAYBE — a couple dozen “bait” cases (if even), and 3) the alligator images are none too graphic, any of them. moreover, not a SINGLE example up there shows anyone white having a hand in anything! they could just as well portray black kids in danger by their OWN accord.
this last point is not trivial. i suspect this whole legend developed b/c blacks were down in the fields/swamps way more than whites, and as such, there probably were MANY cases of them getting attacked/eaten. i could see how racist whites might joke about them being “bait” in such cases, even though no one had specifically set them up to be such.
if the depiction were of black babies about to be butchered/shot/whipped AT WHITE HANDS, or black africans about to be trapped into slavery in the first place, i would prolly agree the cartoons are offensive. but here we have black babies — ALONE — in trouble with animals. it is cute. once again, i cite the white baby in the COPPERTONE LOGO.
back to the “time” issue (#1), maybe in 100 years it will be comical to show the jewish kid in front of an oven. i agree it certainly isn’t now, altho one can definitely show a jewish kid in front of bumbling nazis screaming “now you’re gonna get it!” much of hogan’s heroes is along those lines. likewise, bars in the US serve “kamikazes” nowadays — how offensive must that be to families whose loved ones were SET ON FIRE by actual kamikazes?
time heals all wounds. for those here who pretend to share in the pain of alligator victims — real or imagined — of people they never knew 150 years back, i can only point out the obvious: the primary example of people being fed to animals in recorded history is of WHITE CHRISTIANS at the hands of the romans. and yet, my husband — both italian and christian — doesn’t get all bent out of shape when the benny hill skit “christians v lions” comes around. why is that?
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@Pamela
You called it. She returns….LOL
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PS: come to think of it, i think i have SEEN a bar of soap with a little white boy trying to extract himself from a lion’s maw!
i have certainly seen it on looney tunes.
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@julie id
I don’t reason with crazy people and I told you above that I was not in it to change your mind. You still hold on to this delusion that we were debating for the purpose of me making you see your wrong? If so then you still need to seek help and immediately.
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That is because you are not seeing slavery as a broad enough institution, imposed upon many generations of people involving millions of murders over hundreds of years
Look, if you will, to the watery depths of the Atlantic and Caribbean Oceans, and you will find your millions of skeletons, thrown overboard during the Middle Passage.” Sometimes alive…
Sometimes dead.
http://www.underwatersculpture.com/sculptures/grace-reef/
http://www.underwatersculpture.com/sculptures/tamcc/
And that is not even to count those who were worked to death, or died of exposure, malnutrition, disease or neglect. The boneyard is indeed full. It is in the shadow of this context that “cute cards” were printed of Black children as being “bait” for large and vicious reptiles. But the alligators (of course) were just the metaphor. The real message is that the system, the society of the time, was threatening to chew up little Black children like tasty morsels.
The devaluation of Black life as compared to White life, at the time, was all too real and had been thoroughly demonstrated. These images, and their captions should be seen as part of a horrific whole that was the West African holocaust, not as a single event that you think may or may not have happened.
Your alligator is too small.
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i didn’t underestimate the costs of slavery itself; in fact, i stated EXPLICITLY that the cartoons would have been offensive had they depicted one of the true horrors thereof. i’m all with you in denouncing the whole sordid history, and the term “west african holocaust” is quite fitting.
those postcards, tho, show nothing of the sort. they could have come from mark twain, they could have come from a black artist, they could have come from an abolitionist who was just having a chuckle. there is nothing there any more “offensive” than a typical sambo cartoon.
moreover, the way you guys keep saying “whites” is itself offensive. it wasn’t whites — it was THOSE whites. i don’t blame my husband for ed gein; he doesn’t blame me for marcus wesson. you guys gotta stop reading melanin content into everything you see.
when patsey gets whipped, i should hope my white sister-in-law and my chinese neighbor are every bit as horrified as i am. none of this “i feel it more” nonsense. that’s actually the DEFINITION of “racist”.
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Perhaps one hundred plus years from now there will advertisements depicting (in frame one) the victims of 9/11 who found themselves hurtling to their deaths after having jumped from the upper levels of the Twin Towers.
There can be no harm & no foul as all survivors and direct family members will doubtlessly be long dead. And, as unrelated ‘others’ have no bona fide ‘right’ to be offended or distressed by such an ad (since the event did not happen to them / the “pain” of the event was not theirs), there should be absolutely NO bellyaching over such an ad.
A good one might be for an expensive designer brand of wristwatch. One of these fine watches can be shown (in frame two) as lying undamaged and still ticking in the rubble-filled streets below the crumbling towers. 🙂
I myself would never want to lay eyes on such a thing, but there seems to be at least a few individuals who would find it completely innocuous, and perhaps even a tad bit … “cute”.
Next up: hanging someone “in effigy”, and why it is “cute”, utterly devoid of symbolism & meaning, and therefore harmless….
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But that’s just it. The Jewish holocaust card would be a offensive, whether or not there were actual babies crawling around in front of the burning ovens at Auschwitz. The fact is, that in the face of such horror, someone would think to make such a postcard that trivializes the idea of young and defenseless victims is offensive WHETHER WHAT IS DEPICTED IS REALITY OR JUST SICK FANTASY. Either way, it’s not “cute,” and clearly offensive.
Even if it was children of all races depicted as bait for alligators it would be offensive. But particularly if the babies were all from the same race of people who were being oppressed by the majority race at the time.
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@kiwi
That is true and under normal circumstances I would peg her for black, but after reading her content I highly doubt she is. I will explain why when I get home.
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Julie
This is the definition of racist.
http://m.dictionary.com/definition/racist
What you are doing is puffing up your definition of racist as legit. Plus who mentioned anything about melanin?
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when patsey gets whipped, i should hope my white sister-in-law and my chinese neighbor are every bit as horrified as i am. none of this “i feel it more” nonsense. that’s actually the DEFINITION of “racist”.
Wow a colour-blind kercheif head! I’ve read it all!
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@Sharina:
Lol! Called it and nailed it. And ‘she’ will be back too, because she just CAN’T STAY AWAY. To put this in plain and simple language, some people, i.e.white racists, are just plain crazy. I said that the rabbit hole goes deep with them, but it’s bottomless with individuals like this ‘julie id’. Cartoons? Elmer Fudd? Benny Hill? The Coppertone baby? Does this sound like someone who is rational?
We have to understand what we’re dealing with here. ‘She’ stated that she’d like to know where she could purchase some of these postcards.. Someone else on this thread stated last year, “I wish we had alligators here in Chicago”. What does that tell you? These are the same types who lynched our ancestors and kept some of the body parts as souvenirs. Are you getting the picture? We are dealing with GHOULS. You cannot expect reason and rationality from people who would do things like that, or who would find the depiction of our children being threatened by hungry alligators as ‘cute’.
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@Kiwi
The reason I don’t believe the Julie id is black is as follows.
1. She likes to be called racial slurs by her husband and she brags about it. Of all the white washed individuals I have met they may have been called racial slurs by boyfriends or husbands but you will never know about it even in a racial setting and if they did mention it then they would excuse it by saying he did not mean to or he only does it when he is upset etc.
2. Most white washed people I know will pull the everybody does it or kumbaya theories. She goes there but will quickly move on to just excusing white wrongs period.
3. She gets offended because the word “whites” was used instead of those whites. As we know only white people usually have trouble depicting between the two and need deep clarification in order to get it.
4. She mentioned melanin . White racist are starting to use this as a way to dismiss what blacks say. Anytime something is brought up they bring up melanin as a claim of that is what one must believe in and thus they are wrong.
The problem is they assume they are so slick in disguise that they will not get caught. The more they post the more they end up giving themselves away.
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@Pamela
Exactly.
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“Perhaps one hundred plus years from now there will advertisements depicting (in frame one) the victims of 9/11 who found themselves hurtling to their deaths after having jumped from the upper levels of the Twin Towers.”
perhaps there will. we play cowboys and indians, drink kamikazes, and mock the christians who were eaten alive by lions. and the top few movies are all about “vampires” – a ghoulish reference to realworld people who were tortured at the hands of vlad the impaler.
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Julie
I have to wonder how hard it is to get a clue. You make up stuff as you go and the more you go the dumber you come off. Vampires are not a mockery of vlad’s victims but a mockery of him. Vampire movies themselves are actual mockery of current social issues. Here is an article on one.
http://dallasmorningviewsblog.dallasnews.com/2010/06/vampire-mania-m.html/.
A simple search can produce more. Thing is not one person who likes vamp movies are running around giggling and claiming it is “cute.”
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alligator victims…vlad victims…coliseum victims… everyone here is outraged at the first one, but not the other two. THAT is the problem.
and, no, my husband has never called me a racial slur. he calls me “n*gger”, fondly. racial slur implies intent.
such as “white washed” in sharina’s hate-filled rant. THAT is a slur.
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PS: tom’s “alligator” line made me giggle. yeah, it’s offensive – SO WHAT? it was intentionally so; doesn’t anyone here know was SATIRE is?
dollars to donuts tom is black himself. or some touchy-feely lefty with an all-black crowd.
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“A good one might be for an expensive designer brand of wristwatch. One of these fine watches can be shown (in frame two) as lying undamaged and still ticking in the rubble-filled streets below the crumbling towers. ”
yeah, that would be a good one. when 9/11 is 100+ years in the past, you would be well advised to pitch that campaign. it has worked wonders for capital one, which makes similar light of the murderous rampages of the vikings.
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@julie id
You really have no idea what I am outraged about or if I am even truly outraged so save the “everyone” talk for when you truly know everyone. The problem is you have no idea what you are talking about but just keep talking, but hey you can chalk your dumb responses up to something I find “cute.”
Sorry to break it to you but racial slur does not imply intent. In fact here is the definition of racial slur http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/racial+slur
I also suggest you invest in a dictionary because there is way too many words you have no idea what the true definition of them are. For example rant and white-washed.
P.S. I never said you were white washed. I just said you are not black.
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@bygodsloveandgrace
I am wondering if she knows if she is coming or going.
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@ bygodsloveandgrace
I deleted your comment for referring to another commenter as “it”.
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@ Kiwi
Another bit of evidence that she is not black is her constant need to refer to everything as lefty. Though not one person in here has mentioned their political affiliation or if they are part of any. Most if not all white trolls refer to blacks as such on this blog.
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@julie id
The real question is if you know what satire is or the purpose of it? The mere fact that you find it so funny is a sign you don’t really know what the purpose of it usually is. If satire was performed today then the message would just simply jump over your head.
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@ Sharina,
Indeed. I’m not sure either.
@abagond
Fair enough.
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[…] it has worked wonders for capital one, which makes similar light of the murderous rampages of the vikings.”
Really? Because I’ve probably seen everyone of the Capital One viking commercials, but have never seen anything even hinting at murderous rampages … or the raping and kidnapping of women … or berserker drug-induced rages … or even the pillaging and plundering of various European cities.
All I’ve ever noticed while watching those commercial were filthy and bedraggled men behaving like blithering idiots, and mostly to each other.
Try again.
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Abagond please place a quotation mark at the beginning of the first sentence of my comment which is now awaiting moderation, and then delete this one. TIA
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@ abagond – you don’t need to delete the “it” post on my behalf. words do not offend me.
besides, bygodsloveandgrace makes a lot of intelligent and interesting points otherwise. i rather enjoy her posts.
i am more baffled by your decision to let stand sharina’s posts, which are simply rants. strip away the ad hominems, i’m not sure there’s anything there.
cheers
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@julie id
If you did strip away my personal remarks to you it would still stand to prove you wrong.
For starters you keep calling my response rants when they are not (just your sly way of dismissing your incorrect observations). In order for it to be a rant it would require that I say it in some type of anger. So far all I have said has been in laughter. Another dictionary moment I presume…http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rant
Secondly you keep incorrectly applying ad hominem ( another way to dismiss the fact that you do not know what you are talking about and have been proven wrong). The reason you are wrong is because I addressed your falsehoods and then called you names. I did not simply rely on names to discredit you. Had I simply relied on name calling then you could call it an ad hominem. 🙂
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slight O/T, but who is the celeb in bygods… avatar pls.? she really is stunning!
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@ Sharina
Another bit of evidence that she is not black is her constant need to refer to everything as lefty. Though not one person in here has mentioned their political affiliation or if they are part of any.
I haven’t been following all of the exchange so I might be sticking foot in mouth. But:
political sentiments can come out in speech without mentioning an explicit political affiliation. Also, it is not a secret that most black Americans who are politically active do vote mostly Democrat. It’s not an off the wall assumption to believe black Americans do this out of a belief that the Democrats are a left party OR that the Democrats are, at least, less right than the other main party.
Also, one can be leftist or right and still not have a political affiliation.
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@ Sharina
She mentioned melanin . White racist are starting to use this as a way to dismiss what blacks say.
You didn’t think this would happen some day. The moment I started hearing about “magical melanin” from wingnut black pseudo scientists, I knew it would become another bad joke to use against blacks. The melanin movement thing seems to be mostly confined to America, hopefully it stays there and dies (quickly i hope) there. The way that you all sing Trojan Pam’s praises leaves me shaking my head.
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@ legion: sharina apparently lacks a “search” fuction. no need to look for “hidden” political leanings here — there are DOZENS of posts in this thread EXPLICITLY bashing fox news, sarah palin, glenn beck, etc etc. his/her comment “not one person in here has mentioned their political affiliation” is only true insofar as it is WAY MORE than “one person”.
this is the same poster who wrote “I never said you were white washed” approx 3 posts after repeatedly calling me white washed, mind you.
he/she means well, but there seems to be a bit of a “reality” problem.
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@julie id
Apparently you lack a brain. If someone bashes fox news that does not mean they are lefty, if someone bashes Sarah Palin (conservatives did too) that does not mean they are lefty, Glenn back etc. Most I have run into in here are neither a left leaning or right leaning so you made an assumption that was bs and exposed yourself to be white.
“this is the same poster who wrote “I never said you were white washed” approx 3 posts after repeatedly calling me white washed, mind you.”—You quote now? so please quote my post where I called you white washed? Telling you that you are not black is not telling you that you are white washed. Do invest more time in using a dictionary and search and less time making it up.
“he/she means well, but there seems to be a bit of a “reality” problem.”—You might want to save the projections for a moment when you look less stupid.
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@Legion
It is not a secret, but how many in here actually support a right or left cause period? They may have a deep seeded hated for the right, but very few if any are singing praises of the left either.
“The way that you all sing Trojan Pam’s praises leaves me shaking my head.”—I agree with TrojamPam on a lot of things, but the melanin theory is simply not one. In fact I have no real idea what it is. I just know those at stormfront like to bring it up at times.
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On a side note…Only Thaddeus and those who quoted him mentioned anything about Sarah Palin and Glen Beck…fox news was never mentioned on this post except once by me in a response to racist and by Julie Id in an attempt to claim what others in here said about them.
So Julie ” there seems to be a bit of a “reality” problem.” This is single-handedly the most distinctive proof so far that she can not tell the difference between what is made up in her head and what is actually mentioned on this particular blog (reality vs. fiction).
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^F is the way to search in most browsers. if you can’t find your OWN post calling me “white washed”, i cannot help you further.
and my apologies. apparently all the posts here bashing right wing institutions were by people even FURTHER to the right. true, i had not considered that. had not realized that abagond was a bastion of tea party activists — thanks for straightening me out!
at least that gives me hope. we been screwed by the left for so long, it’s nice to see people GETTING a BRAIN for once….
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PS: i don’t know what “magical melanin” is. i was simply referring to the tendency for posters here to sympathize more with people who have similar tans to themselves.
any black kid fed to an alligator back in 1920-whatever, that is atrocious. as is a chinese kid skinned alive in nanjing, as is that jewish kid pushed into the oven at auschwitz. as long as you feel EQUALLY sorry for all three, we’re good here.
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@ Julie Id
I am well aware of how to use search as I have been using it to continuously prove you wrong and I will be using it to prove you wrong once again.
1.You are the one that is claiming I called you white washed so it is then your duty to find said proof to present such accusation. You won’t find it as I did not find it simply because that is not what was said. That is simply what you produced in your head that holds no truth or evidence to support. In order for you to be white washed you would first have to be considered a person of color and seeing as I clearly don’t see you as one then white washed would not apply. Here is a link to the comment I believe you are referring to: https://abagond.wordpress.com/2010/08/11/alligator-bait/#comment-220346
Clear as day at the top it says “The reason I don’t believe the Julie id is black is as follows.”
2.“and my apologies. apparently all the posts here bashing right wing institutions were by people even FURTHER to the right.”—It is more true that you can’t separate reality from your imagination as none of what you just said is anything that I said or implied. Not one post I have read is bashing the right and as of yet you have failed to quote any. If this was another post then you may have a case but it is not so you are making it up in my book. I never said they were even further right. What I said (and I will quote it for the reading comprehension challenged) is “Most I have run into in here are neither a left leaning or right leaning so you made an assumption that was bs and exposed yourself to be white.” Meaning they like neither party and bash both at different times. Basing their political affiliation on who they bash is juvenile at best.
3.“i don’t know what “magical melanin” is. i was simply referring to the tendency for posters here to sympathize more with people who have similar tans to themselves.”—Yet this is a conclusion that you came to in your head with little or no proof to back it up. Something that popped up when you started to deflect from the real issue. You circled yourself into several debates trying to duck and dodge one. So all these assumptions and conclusions you made about people in here are nothing more than your OWN inability to debate and understand what was going on to begin with.
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@ julie id
no need to look for “hidden” political leanings here — there are DOZENS of posts in this thread EXPLICITLY bashing fox news, sarah palin, glenn beck, etc etc. his/her comment
Hahaha! Oh my! That is what you think constitutes someone as being left: being against Fox news! Oh dear. Fox news is a mass manufactured product for the lowest common denominator, namely: idiocy and jingoism.
Sarah Palin? *forehead slap*
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Actually melanin is very important and color is very important. Things have become competely twisted due to white supremacy. Of course pigment will be devalued by individuals who are deficient in it. Is chorophyll “magic chlorophyll”? Is that supposed to be some kind of inslult? What kind of lifestyle is a colorless plant obligated to live?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monotropa_uniflora
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuscuta
They are parasites by necessity since they cannot directly use light energy. The wikipedia article on chlorophyll ponders about why it is green and not black since it would be more effficient to be black. In fact, there are certain radiotrophic fungi that are able to capture highly energetic (and dangerous!) gamma radiation for metabolic processes using melanin:
http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchArticle.action?articleURI=info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0000457
https://www.sciencenews.org//node/11308
Melanin also plays an important role in the immune response of many inverterbrates such as coral.
There is a relationship between the perception of color and light energy. We have visual receptors partial to certain frequencies of electromagnetic radiation. When the types of receptors are stimulated about equally by light entering our eyes we see ‘white’. A body that is emitting a balanced spectrum will therefore appear white. However, what about bodies that are not emitting. The color they appear to us is the spectrum of light that they reflect from a source. So even if white light shines on a plant the plant appears green because it ABSORBS primarily in the red and blue part and reflects green. A non-emissive body will appear dark if it absorbs across the spectrum and white if it simply reflects all light without interacting with it energetically. So since light simply bounces off white plants without any energetic interaction they cannot photosynthesize and must parasitize. Thus organisms that light shuns are, mythologically, vampires. It is said that they don’t cast shadows, produce reflections or show up in photographs. The idea is that they are ignored by light on an energetic level. Consider that the earth is powered by energy from the sun. How would life on earth be possible if everything were white? On a more symbolic level, the behavior of whites as a civilization is completely consistent with the idea of whiteness as representing ghostliness, vacuousness, blankness (blanc, blanco) and a tendency towards parasitism and one-sided taking.
The process by which melanin (and also DNA) interacts with light energy is called “fast internal conversion” by chemists. The ultimate importance of the dark pigment is its ability to interact with all the frequencies of EM radiation both visible and invisible. That’s the very reason it appears dark to the eyes. It is therefore somewhat counterintuitively the case that a non-emissive body that appears dark is actually interacting with EM energy. Melanin within an organism makes EM signals bioavailable. Melanin is not just a skin pigment. There is a part of the brain called the ‘substantia nigra’ that appears black because of the presence of melanin in the brain (neuromelanin). Parkinson’s disease has been associated with a reduction in the pigmentation of the substantia nigra and is substantially more common in whites. Furthermore, certain drugs can bind to melanin and produce symptoms similar to Parkinson’s disease (called extrapyramidal movement disorders) in people who do not have the disease.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9359620
“The affinity of drugs and other xenobiotic agents for melanin is a well-known phenomenon, often occurring with serious physiological consequences. For example, the interaction of anti-psychotic drugs with neuromelanin may play a pivotal role in the induction of extrapyramidal movement disorders associated with the chronic administration of phenothiazine and other neuroleptic agents.”
Anyway, not everyone will understand these things or consider them relevant and that’s fine. Enough will.
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“On a more symbolic level, the behavior of whites as a civilization is completely consistent with the idea of whiteness as representing ghostliness, vacuousness, blankness (blanc, blanco) and a tendency towards parasitism and one-sided taking.
The process by which melanin (and also DNA) interacts with light energy is called “fast internal conversion” by chemists. The ultimate importance of the dark pigment is its ability to interact with all the frequencies of EM radiation both visible and invisible. That’s the very reason it appears dark to the eyes. It is therefore somewhat counterintuitively the case that a non-emissive body that appears dark is actually interacting with EM energy. Melanin within an organism makes EM signals bioavailable. Melanin is not just a skin pigment. There is a part of the brain called the ‘substantia nigra’ that appears black because of the presence of melanin in the brain (neuromelanin).”
*****************
Thanks for this bio-photonic breakdown, Origin. It answers my question on a recently posted thread here regarding whether whites are born with a particular DNA coding that causes them to act and behave DIFFERENTLY …
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Actually George, according to YOUR own reasoning you would also be included in this “race realist” category because you stated here:
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2014/03/10/get-to-know-a-white-person/#comment-220676
“Due to the fact that:
1. the nature of white society is fundamentally racist.”
Origin offered a feasible rationale as to why whites are fundamentally racist, your words, not his.
What’s YOUR opinion regarding WHY whites are fundamentally racist??? What’s backing up YOUR assertion?
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“How’s my theory Matari?”
*******
LOL Your theory seems DELUSIONAL… and hilarious, Thanks for the laugh though! For your theory to be credible and have merit, white people would have most likely been identified and treated as persona non grata everywhere they ventured – and thus unwelcomed by indigenous/native darker populations. But we know of numerous instances where the opposite happened. Whites were accepted, allowed in, and then tragedy ensued
Let’s say for the sake of argument that Africans did kick you folks out of Africa. Why would they do that? Could it be because you folks may have been exhibiting anti-social tendencies? Putting these theories aside, my point is you’re as much a race realist as anyone. In fact, I’m not certain people of color can be accurately described as such since we didn’t invent (or benefit from) this RACE concept. As far as I know a RR is a white person seeking to scientifically justify the systemic oppression and mistreatment of so called INFERIOR races.
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Actually melanin is very important and color is very important.
• No one on this thread said melanin is unimportant.
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hoo boy, this is spinning out of control. all i meant was that the presence of melanin in my skin affects NOTHING in my life except for the amount of sunscreen i use and my tendency toward sickle-cell. any further extension to personality, history, or connection to persons who lived 150 years ago is just bollocks.
anytime someone references the black “community”, i wonder what that is. my “community” is like-minded soccer moms who went to similar law schools. chemincals in my skin do not factor into it.
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“What kind of lifestyle is a colorless plant obligated to live?”
hate to ruin such a great setup, but might i point out that black is the ABSENSE of colour and white is the TOTALITY thereof?
so….my HUSBAND is the real “person of colour” here, and you me and OJ are all…um…NOT. 😛
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Well that depends on if you’re talking about light or pigment.
Get a white light, sure you shine it through a prism and it will separate into the full spectrum of colors onto the wall.
But then, take the full spectrum of paints (every color) and mix them into a bucket and what color will you have at the end? Exactly…. Black.
So it all depends of which metaphor suits your argument 🙂
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“But then, take the full spectrum of paints (every color) and mix them into a bucket and what color will you have at the end? Exactly…. Black.”
will you? i thought chem teachers always insisted this too would turn white if done in proper proportions.
seemed counterintuitive then, and seems counterintuitive now, so i will defer to your expertise on this.
it was still a good line anyways. albino flowers or whatnot. hated to step on the guy.
—–
still wanna know who bygods… avatar is, pls! TIA.
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Julie id
If you went to law schook then the bsr has greatly gone down (another lie I presume). You can’t get your point across on a forum, spell words correctly consistantly, or write a complete coherent sentence and you want someone in here to believe you went to law school? ROFL. Reality to Julie!
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Correction on school and bar*
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Continuation….If anything I don’t even believe you are out of high school.
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The colors in light mix to white because they appear via frequency transmission. That is, red light is the transmission of electromagnetic radiation in the red spectrum. If you mix the visible portion of the electromagnetic spectrum, from ultraviolet to infrared, you’ll get white.
The colors in paint mix to black because the appear via frequency absorption. That is, red paint appears red because it absorbs all visible frequencies except red. If you mix all paint colors, you will create a mixture that aborbs all freqencies of the visible spectrum.
This is why the primary colors for additive media (such as color television) are red, green, and blue, whereas the primary colors for subractive media (such as print) are magenta (pinkish-red), cyan (brilliant blue), and yellow.
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“My theory is just as ridiculous as Origin’s but you like his better because you’re a racial realist and trying to scientifically prove specific behavioral in deficiencies of the white race.”
************
Origin’s theory makes much more sense than yours on so many levels.
Once again: A Race Realist is a WHITE person seeking to scientifically justify the systemic oppression and mistreatment of so called INFERIOR races.
AND:
People of Color cannot be accurately described as such since we didn’t INVENT (or benefit from) this RACE construct. However, when we do learn to use YOUR terms and definitions succinctly you guys try to flip the script by subtly altering the definitions and meanings of words that historically only applied to WHITE people and now accuse us of being the very thing YOU are and have been since the dawning of WHITENESS. Many of us see the BS games whiteness tries to perpetrate on us, and aren’t having it!
I won’t sing Kumbaya with anyone who deems themselves as WHITE. Why?
You said it honestly/accurately, “… the nature of white society is fundamentally racist.”
Every white person is at least a racist suspect and every racist suspect is capable of harming a PoC is some way, form or fashion. Therefore, I don’t give any WHITE person the benefit of the doubt.
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“George Ryder
@Matari
I’m glad you got a good laugh, that was my point.
My theory is just as ridiculous as Origin’s but you like his better because you’re a racial realist and trying to scientifically prove specific behavioral in deficiencies of the white race. We’re parasitic mushrooms lol.”
Linda says,
George Ryder, you missed the point of what and how “race realism” is being used by white supremacist. I get that you are trying to tie it all together and apply it across the board, no matter which direction it’s coming from (whether from black or white people)…. but unfortunately you are still failing to get the point…
it’s not a matter of “scientifically” backing something up because people historically, have used anything they could that their society deemed as “Authoritative” to back up their points of view…. such as religion — the bible has been “used and abused” to back up beliefs that have led to war, slavery, murder, refusing people’s civil rights, etc…
so there is no surprise that science or math can be/ is used (and twisted) to “back up” almost anyone’s POV… and as you have shown with your responses, almost anything can be taken out of context if the reader views the content from HIS point of view and not the bigger picture at large.
_____________________________________________________________
I get that your fear is that “theory” might find it’s way into reality but for that to happen (as far as black people are concerned) — would mean that somehow black people gained power on par with white people and that “white Supremacy” is somehow no longer relevant.
It may seem like fun and games when Abagond’s resident white racists come here to mouth off but to me, their intent is real and they are “out and about” in cyberspace with a goal and an agenda … they are the cyber foot soldiers of a broader issue …white supremacy is not a “theory”… it’s the reality we all live in.
white supremacists are not just the clowns that come to this blog– they are politicians, businessmen, bankers, law enforcement, etc — people with Real power …they have made and continue to make and change policies in Real time/real world that affect all our lives.
Origins belief in the “Melanin Theory” does not have a policy playbook behind it– these types of theories are “reactions” to the systemic and systematic white supremacy Racism that black/brown people have been subjected to –aka all bark and no bite– just another way for black people to try to feel “better” about themselves after being told for hundreds of years that “they aren’t sh’t!” and are inferior.
and coming from a majority black/brown country, I can assure you that when we are in power, we haven’t done to white people what was done to black people (as white racists would have the average white person believe — even Idi Amin gave white people and Asians/Indians time to get out of Uganda and even compensated them for confiscated property–he didn’t enslave or kill them enmasse).
http://www.newafricanmagazine.com/why-idi-amin-expelled-the-asians
and do you know why most black/brown people of the Diaspora wouldn’t kill off or apply racist policies to white people– mainly because of internalized racism — because we are all creatures of white western thinking and have been infected with the mindset that “lighter is better”— that kind of brainwashing is not going away anytime soon (and I’m saying this as a mixed race woman)
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and George, when I say “Diaspora”… I’m talking about black people are not African immigrants, who are from or born in countries outside of the continent of Africa… such as North/South America, Caribbean, Europe.
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correction: “black people who are not African immigrants. They are black people who are from or born in countries outside of the continent of Africa”
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@ George Ryder
Strictly speaking, Melanin Theory, as I understand it, is race realist – it regards race as real, it looks at physical differences between them, setting up one as better overall than the other. But to put them in the same camp as race realists seems odd because most of them are White and would have nothing to do with Melanin Theory. Race realism is, in effect, a rebranded, updated form of Jim Crow racism.
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“Ryder
@Linda
So basically you are saying only white people can be racial realists?”
Linda says,
No George, based on your question that you posed on the other thread about my interactions with the so called “white race realists”… I answered that these people are not true “race realists”…
they are in fact “white nationalists” and white supremacists… the type of people who join neo-Nazi groups and other types of white nationalist groups…. but on the Internet, they have used the term “race realist” as a form of “rebrand” and shield…
Origins “Melanin” theory is a race realist theory in the true sense of the word but is Origin pushing for “Apartheid” and Separatism?
because that is what the white Nationalists are pushing for and that is what they are discussing when they drop their comments on this blog– hence, they are not truly “race realists”– they’ve co-opted that theory and blended it with their other racist beliefs.
why is it so hard for you to understand that?
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Linda,
I’m done with George. I don’t think he’s taken: Intro to Racism 101, yet!
Good Luck getting him to see the point of how and why race realism (realists) uses science to further their cause.
Maybe he needs a strong dose of Tim Wise or MaconD (of ThingsWhitePeopleDo) blog to understand some pretty basic ideas and concepts that apparently is causing him some difficulty.
The market for WHITE-anti-racists for this very reason!!!! White people tend to listen to and BELIEVE other whites more than they do black and brown folks…
If George is as smart as he thinks he is, he might read a lot more (here) and comment a lot less… maybe he’d catch up a bit.
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(ThingsWhitePeopleDo) should be StuffThatWhitePeopleDo.
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@Matari: I agree that George Ryder should listen to Tim Wise or Macon D, maybe he would recieve it better coming from another white person. Tim Wise could educate him. Macon D. is a good teacher also. If he’s not willing to learn then i wish he’d just just the hell up and not post. I don’t know if he’s being willfully ignorant and obtuse, or he just doesn’t care and wants to think from his white gaze.
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“George Ryder
@Linda
I don’t know, perhaps I haven’t had as much opportunity to study and consider these concepts as you have.”
Linda says,
George, I haven’t “studied” anything except for the words and behaviors of Abagond’s resident white racists, who like to call themselves, “race realists” because they got offended whenever someone calls them “racists”
This blog is where I got to learn about these “concepts” because as each white racist came to visit and drop their “knowledge”, Abagond took the time to do posts in rebuttal… that’s why Abagond made a “Broken Record” link
the real white Nationalists who come to this blog, also like to call themselves “race realists” because as I said, they are using the term as a cover..
Here’s an article written by a white race realists who tries to show why white Nationalists (aka neo-Nazi’s) are different than real “race realists”:
http://angrywhitedude.com/2013/01/on-race-realism-and-white-supremacism/
Not to be mean, but as a woman of colour, I truly cannot be concerned with white people’s feelings about a black man believing in the Melanin Theory — a theory designed in opposition to white scientific racism and a theory that lacks any Power
whereas, Scientific racism in the real world, created and shaped political and institutional policies — and it has now morphed into many different factions that are being applied today in society at large and is being used by people with actual and real Power: such as modern day Eugenics focusing on _ population control vs reproductive rights.
Anyway, as Matari, just pointed out– you do seem to be a lost cause! 🙂
but I’m sure as you peruse through Abagond’s old posts, you’ll eventually figure it out for yourself.
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@ Linda: You broke it down beautifully. We will see if George Ryder will learn from your information. You are a great provider of information.
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Thanks Ms Mary, I do the best I can…
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I should point out Origin did not lay out a theory of any kind whatsoever. He knows that melanin theory was raised ,by me, mocking it. He reacted with a Red Herring: “actually melanin is important.” Uh-huh thanks Sherlock, no one said it wasn’t. The rest of what he says is information about melanin’s role in various processes with bits of innuendo sometimes thrown in.
Origin crucially avoids discussing melanin theory itself which is what I (mockingly) called into question. It’s pretty difficult to talk with a straight face that the greater the the amount of melanin that a human has, the more spiritual that human will be. One would think that only an illiterate peasant in a Stone Age society would believe such things, because that is the level of thought that melanin theory exists at. Origin perhaps knows, at some level, how embarrassingly idiotic the theory is, why else would he divert attention away from the theory itself with a well chosen opening Red Herring sentence followed by facts peppered with innuendo. The innuendo was needed because melanin theory itself is as bankrupt as Lehman Brothers and as fake as a 2 dollar bill.
——————–
Linda says that melanin theory lacks power. She says it was developed as a counter force to white racism and it’s very real power. I think the theory is somewhat a concern though. If an otherwise young, intelligent black man or woman is pouring their energy into support of a bankrupt theory like this, what is lost is the productive contribution they could otherwise be making. That other productive contribution is for them to figure out.
Lastly, melanin theory is a latter day version of the Yacob story that Malcolm was seduced by*. He got over the Yacob nonsense. We are supposed to be going forward not backward. (Sorry for sounding like a corny slogan).
————————————————————
Keep in mind Malcolm was analogous to the illiterate peasant mentioned above. He was an illiterate, recovering drug addict doing time, whose father had been brutally taken from him and his mother brutally taken from him too. And he had become engrained in criminal life in a society that structurally encouraged his negative choices. He mentions that he had reason upon reason to believe that whites were some kind of devil. But, he still eventually saw through the pseudoscience that he was exposed to during his early days with the Black Muslims.
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Abagond said:Strictly speaking, Melanin Theory, as I understand it, is race realist
It sure is!
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@Legion: That is an accurate summary of Malcom X. That’s pretty much how i saw it after i read the autobiography and watch the Spike Lee film. In addition to reading other accounts about the civil rights icon. As for the melanin theory, I personally can’t wrap my head around it either. I just think it was black people reacting to white oppression from the racist system of white supremacy. It sounds like pseudo science too me. To me the melanine theory is in the same vein as that racist science theory like the “Bell Curve.”
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Hmm…
Generally, I’m not posting here for whites and I’m not trying to convince whites of anything! So please don’t ask me to prove anything. I wouldn’t bother because whites find it very difficult to grasp certain concepts due to their particular cognitive tendecies. It is in the white world that understanding has come to mean analysis almost exclusively. But to analyse is to break-up. Whites tend to break-up things and give the parts different names and lose any sense of the underlying interconnection. So any concept that requires integrating or synthesizing thought will be more difficult for whites. This is part of the reason we have an immense confusion of dogmatic religious doctrine and the resulting hatreds. Whites ‘realize’ the symbols instead of grokking their meaning. Then they’ll even kill you for heresy if you don’t agree with their narrow and often literal interpretation. It’s the blind men and elephant syndrome.
So I wouldn’t be surprised if inquisitive whites found my previous post nonsensical. It wasn’t written for them! Those who it was written for will be able to digest it and make the connections. I don’t have to spell it out. Maybe they can’t see the relationship between skin color and behavior but that’s their problem. It is the pineal gland between the lobes of the BRAIN that secretes melatonin which stimulates the pituitary gland at the base of the BRAIN to produce melanocyte-stimulating hormone which the melanocytes in the skin and elsewhere respond to and manufacture melanin. So which part of this system is problematic in those who are excessively pale?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8748085
Multiple sclerosis is a central nervous system demyelinating disease. Significant evidence, including similarities with its animal model, experimental autoimmune encephalomyelitis, supports an autoimmune mechanism, activated by putative environmental factors in genetically predisposed individuals. Genetic factors strongly influence the susceptibility to demyelinating diseases in humans and rodents. Understanding the mechanisms governing susceptibility versus resistance may help to identify individuals at risk or design therapeutic strategies. The hypothesis formulated here is based on the observation that RESISTANCE TO MULTIPLE SCLEROSIS AND EXPERIMENTAL AUTOIMMUNE ECEPHALOMYELITIS IS ASSOCIATED WITH DARK SKIN PIGMENTATION. While this may signify a protective role for melanin against environmental factors producing oxidative damage, the mechanism postulated here is that susceptibility to autoimmune demyelination is influenced by hormonal factors, i.e. the NEUROhormones melatonin and melanocyte stimulating hormone, which have opposing effects on immune functions and, the same time, are IMPORTANT DETERMINANTS OF THE INDIVIDUAL’S PRODUCTION OF MELANIN.
Multiple sclerosis, Parkinson’s and other degenerative diseases of the nervous system are all more common in whites on account of their condition. (Since melanin also boosts the immune system I have serious questions about the so-called AIDS epidemic but that’s another topic.) Now I’m not even saying this to insult whites. I’m saying it for the benefit of melanated people who have been fooled and discombobulated by the BAREFACED LIE of white supremacy. If whites hadn’t created a house of evil and lies it wouldn’t be necessary for us to tear it down. But tear it down we must because if the blind ones that need to be lead are doing the leading we will all fall off the cliff. If light cannot take up residence in a being as a CHEMical then it is blind because it is unlit internally.
Chemical
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=chemistry
1570s, “relating to chemistry,” from chemic “of alchemy” (a worn-down derivative of Medieval Latin alchimicus; see alchemy) + -al
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=alchemy
mid-14c., from Old French alchimie (14c.), alquemie (13c.), from Medieval Latin alkimia, from Arabic al-kimiya, from Greek khemeioa (found c.300 C.E. in a decree of Diocletian against “the old writings of the Egyptians”), all meaning “alchemy.” Perhaps from an old name for Egypt (Khemia, literally “land of black earth,” found in Plutarch), […] The al- is the Arabic definite article, “the.”
Km Heiroglyph
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Km_%28hieroglyph%29
The Egyptian hieroglyph for “black” in Gardiner’s sign list is numbered I6. Its phonetic value is km
Km.t
Ancient Egypt is commonly referred to as ‘km.t’ , with the theorized reference to the black Nile Delta earth. [Me: It’s obviously the people..lol]
Anyway, the days of being deceived by whites are rapidly coming to an end. There could be no life on earth if every being on it were white/colorless because light from the Sun would simply be bounced back into space rather than utilized. The perception of color is simply evidence of a body interacting energetically with incident light and changing its frequency spectrum. Thus light coming off the body appears a different color from the light incident on it. Why do think people are encouraged to eat colored/unbleached foods…why dark chocolate and coffee are powerful antioxidants/free radical consumers…why melanin is a natural sunscreen….why space-shuttle heatshields are black…the appearance of color is evidence of participation in energetic transformations and black is the most potent transducer.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18479839
Melanin directly converts light for vertebrate metabolic use: heuristic thoughts on birds, Icarus and dark human skin.
Pigments serve many visually obvious animal functions (e.g. hair, skin, eyes, feathers, scales). One is ‘melanin’, unusual in an absorption across the UV-visual spectrum which is controversial. Any polymer or macro-structure of melanin monomers is ‘melanin’. Its roles derive from complex structural and physical-chemical properties e.g. semiconductor, stable radical, conductor, free radical scavenger, charge-transfer. Clinicians and researchers are well acquainted with melanin in skin and ocular pathologies and now increasingly are with internal, melanized, pathology-associated sites not obviously subject to light radiation (e.g. brain, cochlea). At both types of sites some findings puzzle: positive and negative neuromelanin effects in Parkinsons; unexpected melanocyte action in the cochlea, in deafness; melanin reduces DNA damage, but can promote melanoma; in melanotic cells, mitochondrial number was 83% less, respiration down 30%, but development similar to normal amelanotic cells.
[I’m posting these .gov sites as a concession to those who like to read whites’ big words]
@Matari
Yeah, I eventually had to come to accept “white difference” as well. The fact that they resemble us on some level but behave differently has been a real trap throughout history. The ancestors of indigenous people were simply unable to anticipate white behavior. Example: whites gave Native Americans a gift of blankets deliberately contaminated with the deadly smallbox virus. Cultures for which gift-exchange was an important expression of good-will would not suspect that a sacred ritual could be so corrupted. Likewise, the black men that the medical establishment in Tuskeegee collected to watch them die of syphillis did not suspect that they were not being treated. Our assumption that whites think like us works against us because we let our guard down. We assume boundaries for their behavior that do not exist. Yet their assumption that we think like them helps them because they automatically assume an aggressive, xenophobic stance.
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The truth is a tough cookie. Choke on it.
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You’re not interested in anything so pure as truth. You shouldn’t use the word.
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My other post hasn’t passed moderation yet since there are a few links in it. I was referring to its content. Anyway. I do not care about people’s opinion. I will live to see them acknowledge the things they now scoff at.
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I will live to see them acknowledge the things they now scoff at.
No you won’t. Lasting edifices need to be built on stone not sand.
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LOL!
I suppose the teachings and ideas of this civilization is a lasting edifice? One in which the economy of the world’s reserve currency is in the hole to the tune of $17×10^9 yet everything is fine. Where money is printed by fiat yet somehow almost every country is in debt? A world where 2000 fallout-producing nuclear bombs have been exploded without a nuclear war and the Pacific is being endlessly polluted with radioactive isotopes from an uncontrollable nuclear meltdown?
LOL again.
I don’t need to be educated about what is stone and what is sand.
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I suppose the teachings and ideas of this civilization is a lasting edifice?
A non sequitur, red herring and thief-thief all rolled into one.
The faults and features of this current civilization have absolutely no bearing on the veracity of melanin theory. Melanin theory has to stand on its own. But again being based on sand, in fact, being based on the mentality of an illiterate peasant mindset, it will simply never be able to stand on it’s own, uh, “merits”.
Thief-thief: https://abagond.wordpress.com/2013/10/28/asian-atrocity-argument/#comment-199510
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Correction $17X10^12 …. 17 trillion. Orders of magnitudes more than what they esimate the age of the universe to be in years! That implies enslavement till the end of time because a country pays its debt by taxing the populace. And they pay taxes in the same dollars that are essentially conjured up for the cost of paper but for which they have to work. What rubbish.
But it is inevitable that the colonizers and enslavers of the past would create a form of neo-slavery. A more clever one where people love it because of the illusory potential for satiation of their own greed. Yet it won’t last.
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@Legion:
What is ‘sand’ or ‘stone’ is a matter of perspective. Occasionally, what people think is stone is really sand.
Anyway, I don’t know anything about your “melanin theory”. What I have posted are my own conclusions and I’m not interested in accepting a label that obligates me to defend unknown others with whom I may or may not agree.
Furthermore, I do not care if you think my statements are simple-minded. I’m not looking for praise. Your opinion is not relevant to me. I’m not trying to convince you and you are not in a position to vet my thoughts or dictate to me what it is appropriate for me to think. I am not upset if you do not agree with me since I have no desire to impose anything on anyone. So go your merry way.
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@ Legion
No you won’t. Lasting edifices need to be built on stone not sand.”—You actually reminded me of a primary song we sing to the children. The foolish man built his house upon the sand.
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“The foolish man built his house upon the sand.”—–Correction
I thought it was quite interestingly tied into what you were saying.
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“Lasting edifices need to be built on stone not sand.”
Not really. It’s a matter of perspective. People have been putting tents in the Sahara and igloos on the ice since forever. Meanwhile, many a castle has crumbled and fallen to dust.
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boy, i’m dizzy. melanin — and race itself — are relevant to VERY few things, all physical or medical. they certainly have nothing to do with personality, intelligence etc, and i suspect the ones claiming so up there are just trolling.
white racists, black racists, they’re all the same.
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Actually those above have been on this blog a long time and have built up their credibility in other areas. You my dear are one suspected of being a troll and has not failed in providing evidence to prove so.
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yay egyptian gematria and elijah muhammed’s clay people, what’s next nephilim?
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There is a lot to be said about this “Melanin Theory”.(Or The REAL function of Melanin – as I would term it) Its beyond a theory now. Much is known about the way Melanin functions within every cell of living bodies. But then too there are still gaps and mysteries as to why it appears in places where scientists (white scientists of course) have no explanation for – The Brian being a good example
I think its true to say, as quite a few people have stated, that it has nothing to do with “Race Realism”. Obviously for those who think it does (Abagond, Legion) I would have to disagree.
This is because much of the scientific factual workings of Melanin (though available if you know where to look)) are not properly researched or understood.They are definitely not told or explained in science classes
I liked some of the factual accounts of Melanin Origin provided above. I think this quote I came across would help add to that understanding. Also address why its importance is not properly understood:
Melanin is REAL its physical, its fundamental to ALL biological life just as Chlorophyll (its cousin) is fundamental to ALL plant life. So why does science not teach this openly?
The reason is because Melanin – which all huemans possess – just in varying degrees) is also “Metaphysical”. It has non-physical properties which traditional science just cannot accept! Its African-American scientists like Carol Barnes who have done detailed research on this. Unfortunately, its not just white people who disregard or ignore his work. Many Black people, as evidenced here, also do.
So the obvious question to ask is people here is: why would we expect white western scientists – given their shared history of white supremacy – to truthful explain and share the true functioning of Melanin?
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Heres a better theory for the scenario you described here. Though for this one you would have to appreciate that hue-mans have been genetically bred like cats and dogs on this planet for millions of years. White people of course being the most recent breed of hueman over the last 10,000 years. Thats according to white western scientists.
“Cosmic Abandonment – Mark Passio”– who gives a possible explanation for the emergence of the White Supremacy Paradigm of the “superiority complex” of white people. This is what your scenario was really referencing….
http://kwamlaonfb.wordpress.com/2011/06/08/why-the-history-of-mankind-is-much-more-complex-and-deeper-than-most-people-could-ever-currently-imagine/#comment-1055
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Looks like the US wasn’t the only country engaging in alligator bait practices, which makes me wonder how many regions this may have occurred and where it originated.
“One of the most disturbing articles about using babies as alligator bait was reprinted in numerous United States papers from 1888 until 1911. This article refers to an advertisement in Ceylon (modern day Sri Lanka) newspapers: “Babies Wanted for Crocodile Bait. Will be Returned Alive.” The whole process is described in detail and painted as a harmless way for Ceylonese mothers to earn a “small consideration” for the use of their “dark brown infants with curling toes” to attract crocodiles (“Babies for Crocodile”).”
http://www.ferris.edu/jimcrow/question/may13/index.htm
Additionally, this article regards someone who asked a local food chain to remove an alligator bait painting from its wall. The food chain rep deemed the painting a work of “American art” and said each chain has liberty to display what they want. While I found the food chain’s response sad, I recognize it’s part of US society’s freedom of speech/expression. Clearly sometimes the “customer is always right” approach doesn’t work.
@Julie, that’s me in my avatar. Thanks for the compliment but I’m definitely not famous. Ok by me because I couldn’t live under intense public scrutiny. Cheers..
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OFF TOPIC: Melanin anything unless it has to with alligator bait.
You can continue that discussion here:
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2013/03/20/melanin/
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bygodsloveandgrace
Amazingly interesting link. Thank you for posting.
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My pleasure @ Sharina.
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@ Abagond
Haha! I thought you were going to kill the o/t way sooner but when you spoke about it yourself, I thought you’d let it run; not so though.
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@ abagond – THANK YOU! the whole discussion is absurd.
@ bygods… shirley u jest. that pic is BEYOND stunning. (actually i’m quoting my husband here…don’t get the wrong idea!)
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Julie id
I am sure you meant “surely you jest” as shirely you jest is a book award.
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sharina, dear, try not to “correct” things you know nothing about.
i meant “shirley you jest” as pretty much ANYONE over the age of 10 could have told u. it is no wonder, tho, that someone who finds chris rock, d l hugley, ralphie may, lenny bruce, george carlin, ted danson, whoopi goldberg, charlie chaplin, sweeney todd, the producers and M*A*S*H all offensive, would not approve of leslie nielsen or peter graves either.
i have NO CLUE what “shirely” is supposed to mean, but thanks for the…um…”input”. always a big help!
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LOL.
And the punchline is: “No I do not jest … and don’t call me Shirley!” The “Shirley” / surely thing was funny in the movie “Airplane”, especially since it was part of a conversation between two men.
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@julie id
The mere fact that I was able to correct you tells me I know much more about it than you do. It might serve you better if you stop using things you know nothing about or just plain stop speaking on things you know ABSOLUTELY nothing about.
” it is no wonder, tho, that someone who finds chris rock, d l hugley, ralphie may, lenny bruce, george carlin, ted danson, whoopi goldberg, charlie chaplin, sweeney todd, the producers and M*A*S*H all offensive, would not approve of leslie nielsen or peter graves either.”—–I never said not once that I found any of those individuals offensive (nor have I yet to say what I consider offensive at all). What I did say is I simply don’t listen to them or find them entertaining. Here is the link to the comment……https://abagond.wordpress.com/2010/08/11/alligator-bait/#comment-218856
I suggest you either put your reading glasses on or go back to school and get your high school diploma (GED). In the case that you actually are a teenager (which I suspect) finish school or you can continue to fake the funk, but try faking it with someone equally as dumb as you (none of which you will find in here).
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@Pay it Forward
Thank you for mentioning that because that is exactly what came to mind when I saw the comment, but I did a research to see if it was what I thought it was. Then it just turned out that she said it wrong.
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“The mere fact that I was able to correct you tells me I know much more about it than you do.”
yes, of course. the line is much funnier with shirley “corrected” to some non-existent word.
thank u!
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@ Julie Id
Funny how things become non-existent simply because you are under-educated on them. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/surely
I’m sorry but don’t find ignorance funny just sad.
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@ Julie the Airplane line was funny though. Simply because of the context of the joke.
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well, at least you’re not throwing a tizz about someone making “airplane” jokes in the middle of an airplane crisis.
and thanks for the cite on…um…”surely”. like i didn’t know the joke was based on the surely/shirley homophone!
methinks you’re gonna have a harder time making it work with your version — “shirely” — which, as best as i can tell, is pronounced differently, misspelled, and non-existent. but hey, good luck!
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@pay it forward: sorry, i was off by 100 years. thomas pynchon’s latest novel is being described as an “hilarious romp through 9/11”.
and what about that sitcom about the hijackers that was in development? not to mention the one about serial-killer whitey bulger?
some big names involved in the latter. affleck or wahlberg, i forget. satire sells.
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@julie id
Must you always deflect from the point in efforts to hide you ever showing ignorance? Regardless of my misspelling the point still remains the same. It is not Shirley you jest because that is a book award. The saying is surely you jest. It is only funny to the effect that you seem to display yourself as the ignorant Dr. Rumack who continuously mistakes the word surely for Shirley. In this case it is less funny because I am noticing you are serious.
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“yes, of course. the line is much funnier with shirley “corrected” to some non-existent word.”–To readdress this because it seems I look at it all wrong. I never once said it was funnier if replaced with “shirely.” I simply stated that you said it wrong PERIOD.
Twisting things and looping into your own sense of reality is even more proof that you need to see a psychiatrist and you need to be on medication. Several posts strong you have stated I said things I did not (and the worst part that even with proof I never said it you still continue to push the idea that I did). Your ability to comprehend what is going on is so low I am at awe that it is even possible.
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LOL. get a clue. i have never once corrected your THOUSANDS of typos — some so bad that we can’t even parse the sentences involved — but when u go out of your way to do that to others, you had better know what you’re talking about.
for the LAST time, i used “shirley” INTENTIONALLY. like every other blog, commentator, and, um, “book award” out there. i realize that’s a little difficult for u to grasp, but hey, no one’s asking u to be perfect.
we have “bygods…” for that. 😉
cheers
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OFF TOPIC: the word “shirley”.
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LOL!
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back to some SUBSTANCE here, i am skeptical that babies were ever used as living “bait” – that’s kind of silly; they wouldn’t even know what’s going on! but i *could* imagine a few were MURDERED by being tossed to alligators outright. either as extreme punishment toward the parents or just b/c slaveholders wanted to “cull the herd”.
that said, the citations so far have all been weak at best; no one’s come up with a court case, much less an instance of this so clearcut that it appeared in hundreds of papers simultaneously. remember that 60% of the country was trying to get RID of slavery — if these things really happened, the abolitionists would have been shouting it from rooftops from boston to philadelphia. other atrocities are so well-documented (lynchings, shootings, freemen kidnappings), one is left to wonder why alligator murders — of adults OR babies — barely made it past the local yokel gazettes.
why would you jump to believe such flaky sources when in our own age newspapers regularly reveal elvis’s love children and kim kardashian’s alien offspring?! last week prez obama did a “mock” interview with a comedian; there are still people on the radio screaming about how they thought it was for real. in the 1930s, orson welles convinced half the country we were being attacked from mars. people will believe anything.
for those of you who take these reports of “gator baiting” at face value, i give you two words: BONSAI KITTEN.
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^^Evil people do evil things. There is no doubt from the oral histories and artifacts of the past that this did happen. It’s funny how some folks come on here and have diarrhea of the mouth about certain issues and feel like what they say is law and true.
The nerve of some folk, LOL! I guess is that superiority complex at play. 😀
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Abagond I will not mention the word but I think it is fair for me to respond to her retardness.
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@ Julie Id
I am sure the only typos and misspellings you ran into were the ones you made in effort to make sense this whole time. So to that effect perhaps a clue is something you should find time to get for yourself. This is on the level of donate to crazy fund because you are clearly arguing on a word that you know nothing about. Or you could simply be a country bumpkin that truly believes it is the right way to say it as according to other country bumpkins. Either way it is wrong and either way you look dumb saying it.
I know you used it intentionally that is why I said it makes it not funny (besides the fact that it is out of context). I dare you to post one comment from one commenter that has EVER used it that way and post it in open thread found in the link below. With date and time and link to said blog.
“i realize that’s a little difficult for u to grasp, but hey, no one’s asking u to be perfect.”—-I am not trying to be perfect but I know when a person is wrong. Though I suspect if you were not trying to fake the funk then you would actually do enough research to realize you actually are wrong. I get it you were proven wrong countless on this blog so you have to hold on to be right about something. Well sorry to break it to you but this is not it. 🙂
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Forgot to add the link to open thread: https://abagond.wordpress.com/open-thread-2/
Look forward to seeing all those people commenters using the word shirley instead of surely.
@ Lifelearner
LOL!! Any superiority she is experiencing must be all in her mind (among other things). Attempting to have an adult conversation while typing in teenage text slang. Then being confused about what is going on 95% of the time.
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@ Sharina: Comment deleted for being off topic.
The “shirley” thing has gone on LONG enough. If I give you a rebuttal, Julie Id will want one too, etc.
https://abagond.wordpress.com/comment-policy/
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@Abagond
Fair enough. I will put it on open thread and link it.
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LOL. can she EVER stop talking?!
no, no rebuttals from me. her opening sentence (that she has never made a typo) says it all. ROFLMAO!
btw, why are there NO WHITES depicted on ANY of those postcards?! not a ONE! nobody feeding the kids to the gators, pushing the kids at the gators, danging the kids over gators, nuttin’.
or are the GATORS white? is THAT the joke here??
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@julie id
“can she EVER stop talking?!”—Interesting because I was thinking the exact same thing with you. I mean how often does one such as yourself need to make a fool of yourself before you are actually embarrassed.
” her opening sentence (that she has never made a typo) says it all”—Another example of lack of comprehension or just plain lack of the ability to read. I never said I never made a typo, but I did say “I am sure the only typos and misspellings you ran into were the ones you made in effort to make sense this whole time.” Now explain to the crowd how that equals to what I NEVER did or what I did for that matter?
“is THAT the joke here??”—Of course not. You are the joke. What other kind of person would make the most imbecilic comments and then laugh about it?
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Oh and nice effort at deflecting from providing that little proof of what you claim so many commenters use and do. I figure you would do as much as god forbid you make yet another post that shows you as the bumbling dolt.
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@abagond
“why always alligators…why not lions, bears or even crocodiles, animals that are far more dangerous?”
not sure about crocodiles, but how many lions or bears do you see around the swamps of louisiana or georgia?
i imagine alligators were the meme du jour simply b/c alligators were AROUND. slaves were working the plantations and well aware not to stray near the bayou. whether there were actual accidents or just the fear thereof, it’s no leap to see how people of BOTH races might view the gators as slaves’ natural enemy.
but there are indeed depictions of the others around — the end of bamboozled has multiple examples of black kids getting chased around by other animals. bears and foxes at least, i think. in part it’s b/c these were set in other areas — further north, africa, one in russia even, i think.
“There was Little Black Sambo and the tigers, but that image is always part of the story, not on its own like this one.”
again, little black sambo was in africa. the kids in the postcards are in the US south.
“Granted, though, if it turns out there was some minstrel routine of alligator baiting, that would make sense of the pictures too.”
i believe u have it here. white comics, black comics, or just wise old grandpa joe (i am avoiding “tom”) in the slave quarters…it’s easy to see how everyone might start cracking wise about getting eaten by alligators. in fact, i could well imagine a lot of this was from black parents themselves, trying to scare their kids from going “down by the swamp”.
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@ Julie id
I did not make those comments.
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“Living in the pain of a past that is not even your own is sad to say the least.”
well put!
that’s why i’m all for REPARATIONS — any US slaveholder found still alive should definitely pay large amounts to any US slave found still alive.
the rest of us are irrelevant.
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“I did not make those comments.”—–ROFL!!!
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yeah, i have to join sharina on this one, abagond. “I did not make those comments” ??
what thu…?!
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@ Julie id
Sorry, my mistake.
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NP. but i curse u for making me AGREE w sharina on something!
ARGGGGGGGHHHHH!!!! 😉
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Sound the Alarms.
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as to why the image was never used for NON-blacks, check out the comment 10 down (as of this writing) on this news article: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2582414/Pedophile-lottery-winner-used-10milli
on-winnings-help-groom-gain-favor-boy-14.html
either that, or that is the UGLIEST “black baby” i’ve ever seen!
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sorry. dunno why that link broke, nor how to edit it. here in one piece:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2582414/Pedophile-lottery-winner-used-10million-winnings-help-groom-gain-favor-boy-14.html
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@bygods….
“One of the animals in the series is an alligator. When his head is tilted back, the voice speaks in the old stereotypical dialect, “Mmm, mmm, those sho’ is some tasty cookies!” Although the item does not explicitly show Blacks being eaten by alligators, given the history discussed here, the choice made to have the alligator speak in such a stereotypical way seems too coincidental.”
wait a minute, i’m confused. so now the ALLIGATOR is the black one in this scenario?! wouldn’t your analogy make more sense if the alligator sounded like some high fallutin’ slavemaster??
find me a jar that says “i say there good sir, these cookies are some first-rate comestibles!”, then u might be on to something. oh, and make sure the cookies are CHOCOLATE covered, since normal animal crackers look inherently caucasian.
cheers
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@ Julie
“One of the animals in the series is an alligator. When his head is tilted back, the voice speaks in the old stereotypical dialect, “Mmm, mmm, those sho’ is some tasty cookies!” Although the item does not explicitly show Blacks being eaten by alligators, given the history discussed here, the choice made to have the alligator speak in such a stereotypical way seems too coincidental.”
wait a minute, i’m confused. so now the ALLIGATOR is the black one in this scenario?! wouldn’t your analogy make more sense if the alligator sounded like some high fallutin’ slavemaster??
find me a jar that says “i say there good sir, these cookies are some first-rate comestibles!”, then u might be on to something. oh, and make sure the cookies are CHOCOLATE covered, since normal animal crackers look inherently caucasian.”
Reread the context in which I initially shared this information.
Also, you cut off the preceding two sentences to the author’s quote, which should answer your question. Please feel free to write them directly with any further questions and or directives.
Good day.
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i don’t see what the 2 prior sentences add to it. just a description of the jars, which i am not challenging. what i am challenging is how one can jump from the idea that the alligators sound BLACK to the idea that this somehow represents WHITES using them to harass/attack/murder blacks. if anything, it seems to refute such a theory.
it’s like saying some german toy must represent the nazis b/c it “sounds jewish”. that’s just nutty.
i do love that site, tho. lotta fun stuff on there!
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@abagond
“Whites can make whole television shows where everyone is White. They get upset if a beloved character is cast as Black.”
they do?
maybe in 1968; not lately.
whites i grew up with watched their fair share of the jeffersons, sanford and son, what’s happening, etc. in fact, wasn’t cosby the NUMBER ONE SHOW among white america for most of its run?
will smith and denzel were the top box office draws for much of my ute. it wasn’t fellow blacks putting them there.
i do think friends and melrose place were a little white-heavy, but half of the WB is black-heavy. six of one; half-dozen of another. if anything, ASIANS are the ones getting screwed.
oh, and REDHEADS. when’s the last time one of THEM hit it big?
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@ Julie id
There are tons of American television shows without a single Black American character in the main cast:
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2013/12/13/wet-white-entertainment-television/
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yeah, and tons of “black” shows without a single white. for every buffy there is a moesha; for every carrie bradshaw, there is a joan clayton. i don’t remember too many 50/50 shows beside hugley’s.
i’m a little puzzled by STAR TREK on your list, tho. what was nichelle nichols, chopped liver? and wasn’t her sucking face with shatner supposedly the very FIRST black-white kiss on US tv?
i’ve seen that refered to as “groundbreaking” by NAACP types; to list it here as among the uberpale seems a bit misdirected.
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(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjw6y4ClQwg)
Lincoln & Uhura – The Savage Curtain
this is kinda twisted logic, not sure what to make of it
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@ Julie id
http://jezebel.com/5896408/racist-hunger-games-fans-dont-care-how-much-money-the-movie-made
White outrage over what race they thought a character was. I think if you are trying to make a point perhaps you can start by making it.
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don’t call that “white outrage”; that is outrage by THOSE WHITE MORONS.
that said, if the author went out of her way to say “dark skin”, i’d take that to mean the characters were off-white to begin with. ashley judd. jessica alba. george hamilton. what haole is ever going to say a black person is “dark skinned” and leave it at that? they’d state “black” (or worse) explicitly in the first place.
if i hear two whites talk about someone being “dark” w/o further comment about RACE, i’m gonna assume they mean dark…FOR A CAUCASIAN.
italian. greek. maybe turkish.
have not read the book. was katnip, indeed, native american?
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@ Julie Id
1. Chill out! it is not as serious as you make it put to be.
2. You go on denial rants and then when presented with information you try to twist it into this “those whites” bs. Of course it does not mean all whites, but those people are in fact white and do classify as such so stop with the nonsense and deflecting. Act like an adult and then I will treated you as such.
3. In case you have not noticed the only people even bothering to respond to you are the ones that feel the need to be entertained. No one is taking you seriously because you pull out the same tried ole line. Once people stop talking to you period then you will look like nothing more than the same old lunatic in here quoting people and talking to herself.
So either you are going to stop the bs and discuss the things you are bringing up or either you are just going to be overlooked as a simpleton.
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i’m just saying…as usual u cite evidence which contradicts your own position. if i said my cousin were “light-skinned” that would serve as CONFIRMATION they were black of some sort or other, not DENIAL thereof.
in any case, why isn’t katnip SLAVIC to begin with? how many native americans are there roaming around in transylvanian countryside?
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on a related note, why is there a KLANSMAN in today’s google doodle?!
ok, it’s a FAT GHOST, i suppose, but i still don’t get it. what does that have to do with “spring”?
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@juile id that is a wierd animation on google
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@ Julie id
“i’m just saying…as usual u cite evidence which contradicts your own position”—Actually none of my source contradict my position, they prove them, but you want to know what else they prove….your lack of understanding and inability to grasp the concept of what is going on. Now if you truly are a dolt (which I suspect) then I feel bad for pointing this out in public but if you are being simply obtuse then there is little to no harm in it.
The point is that there was outrage by white people over the fact that there beloved characters where blacks (as per the post YOU quoted). So please explain to me what the heck ” if i said my cousin were “light-skinned” that would serve as CONFIRMATION they were black of some sort or other, not DENIAL thereof” has to do with anything. It has nothing to do with with point. This is what I mean by random deflection. You switch up and go on a tangent about something else and then try to claim that as your point. Rue was described and having dark brown skin and they immediately went off on her being cast as black (granted she is not the only one).
“in any case, why isn’t katnip SLAVIC to begin with? how many native americans are there roaming around in transylvanian countryside?
“—-This whole statement is more proof of deflection. It is silly and frankly childish and
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The Hunger Games is supposed to be in post-nuclear war USA as far as I remember; they kept mentioning the Rocky Mountains, or something like this.
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@v8driver
You are correct. It is a point in time where people are separated into districts and the top elite rule over them all.
Correction on were and as in post.
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OIC. i thought it was vampire stuff.
and i was just AGREEING with u that those posters are morons for complaining about the characters being recast as black. unless it matters to the story, who cares if they’re black, white, or green??
of course, it’s a two-way street. don’t anybody here complain if they come out with a “shaft” or “beverly hills cop” sequel with a white lead.
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Julie
But isn’t that part of my point?
Your denying sources without having a clue what it is about. And even if it was a vampire movie, so what? How many excuses are you going to make before you admit you were wrong and fix this repeat problem?
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denying sources?! what are u on about NOW?!
i just pointed out that the “sources” (quotes) which u forwarded indicated that the characters were not black in the original. durnt matter to me one way or another how they recast them; i agree the ppl complaining about this are morons. i don’t wanna see julius caesar cast as a black guy, or nat turner as some swedish blonde, but as long as it’s not critical to the story somehow, why do we care?
honeymooners was a horrible movie, but i thought it was important in establishing that the characters could be any race to begin with. especially given that the WHOLE SHOW was a ripoff of amos & andy….
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OFF TOPIC: racial casting.
True, I brought it up, but it was to make the point, now lost, that it would be unlike Whites to show only Blacks as alligator bait unless it was somehow racial. When they are not thinking about race, they make nearly everyone White, like in “The Simpsons” or “Sex and the City”.
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julie id
I would like you for once to sit down and read what you say before you comment. Do research before you comment. Do something before you comment.
Even this recent post has absolutely nothing to do with the point. A point you brought up I might add. But by all means talk to yourself because I am done wasting my time trying to talk to someone who has the sense of a tree frog.
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ya julie id just spun off out of orbit
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“When they are not thinking about race, they make nearly everyone White, like in ‘The Simpsons’ or ‘Sex and the City’.”
MAYBE. but bear in mind that when they finally gave us the first fully-integrated show full of black lawyers, black judges, black doctors — and a fair number of white criminals and white creeps to boot — our own so-called “leaders” turned on it! a show which the NAACP itself help to DEVELOP is now considered the be-all and end-all of racist portrayals. geesh.
i don’t blame gleason for grabbing the ball and running with it. funny how the irish community didn’t denounce HIM for playing the same buffoon….
—–
back to the “bait”, why would a WHITE be portrayed in those cartoons? the whites were up in tara fanning themselves.
it is no great leap of imagination to see that the ones working near the swamps all day were the ones running into trouble with gators. i bet 99% of all realworld gator attacks involved black victims. doesn’t mean the whites were in any way responsible for the attacks over and above sticking the victims out by the swamp in the FIRST place…
thousands of indentured chinese died building railroads. big diff between that and saying that whites routinely “tossed them in front of trains”….
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@ ks
It was a metaphor, as you well know.
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@Abagond
While looking for vintage teddy bear prints a little while ago, I came across this 1931 cover of a German zoo’s newsletter. I thought it was a bit strange at the time, considering that it depicted a Black girl, and Germany is perhaps one of the only countries more famous for racism than the United States. Do you think it is an example of an “alligator bait” image? If so, you now have something to go in your 1930s section.
https://www.etsy.com/listing/100382757/1931-zoo-crocodile-weimar-germany-print?ref=shop_home_active_10
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nice find!
why are they going out of they way to emphasize BUSTY, tho??
german pervs!
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I’m wondering why this is so hard for people to believe after knowing the sick and tragic events that occurred during slavery. Pregnant African women were hung upside down as their unborn child was cut from their belly as a lesson to all other slaves who are disobedient… Slaves were not veiwed as humans therefore the slave owners had no qualms about murdering or torturing them, from a fetus to an adult. But the scariest part about knowing our history is the denial of it today especially when I know there are plenty of decendents of Slave Masters who still view people of color as subhuman. If enough people forget the past be sure that it shall repeat itself…
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“their history”, not “ours”.
unless u happen to be 150 yrs old.
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too shocking, I had hoped to be true, but there seems to be just to many artefacts for it to be a random one off event
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I wish this shit was not real and a myth but I believe it. In the South, you have black men being lynched, castrated, burned and skinned alive, black women and children raped….think about it folks…black people murdered on a regular basis because they had no rights. Segregation;Jim Crow; no right or opportunity to vote; poverty; …COME ON!!!!
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There’s a video about it. My grandfather told me stories about this. Yes. it’s true
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Jesus this might have happened yes but seriously it was 100years ago i don’t think that just because our great great grandparents did awful things that we should be punished for it now. that is like saying well your african American great grandpa shot a white man over drugs, so every person from that line must all be drug addicts and murderers. Grow up all people back then were stone aged thinking. its sad and horrible yes, but don’t milk it out for a 100 years like you do every thing else.
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Mandy,
If you could THINK CORRECTLY, you would know that long as WHITE people continue to be racists (and benefit from racism) there is no such thing as Black people milking anything out.
It’s really simple. Just STOP white people from being RACISTS, then Black people would have nothing to complain about.
Racism/white supremacy is MILKING (extending/continuing) the horrors of slavery, but I seriously doubt you can grasp or understand that.. seeing how you think “the times” justify how many WHITE people behaved and believed.
Looked in the mirror lately?
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@Mandy,
It is not a matter of punishing modern day descendants. It’s a matter of modern day descendants wanting to pretend like it never happened, and to pretend like it has nothing to do with today.
People today are not much less in the stone ages than people 100 years ago. You think everyone suddenly got enlightened in the past 2 generations? The history books used today say otherwise.
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I suspect black men were fed to alligators, but not black babies. Lying to make a crime worse so it rises to qualify as “evil” is a basic propaganda technique employed when the actual crime doesn’t generate enough outrage.
The “nazis made soap and lampshades out of Jews” is another one of those myths.
What nazi would wash his body with soap made out of Jews?
Total nonsense.
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One known origin of the babies as alligator bait theme comes from 19th century Christian missionaries who claimed that Hindu mothers practiced infanticide by throwing their babies to crocodiles on the banks of the Ganges. This myth was so strongly ingrained in Americans that Thomas Nast used it for a political cartoon in the 1870s.
When he came to America in 1893 to defend Hinduism, Swami Vivekananda, was publicly asked hundreds of times if Indian women threw their babies to crocodiles. He got really exasperated with this and came up with sarcastic answers, such as: “Yes, my mother threw me to the crocodile but I was such a fat baby that he spit me out.” or “Girl babies are softer, so the crocodiles ate them and now all babies are born of men.”
Back then the prejudice was not only against dark skin, it was against heathens, so Vivekananda had two strikes against him, but that did not stop him from preaching truth to white audiences.
Racism exploits primal fears. Abagond’s great collection of postcards and tourist knickknacks shows a real expression of racism, but it is not forensic evidence that any racist crime such as using babies for alligator bait was actually committed. (I’m not denying such crimes.) I’m just saying that these media outlets like postcards are not about actual events, they are about stirring up emotions—pro and con.
If you look at the news now, Muslims in Africa are throwing prisoners to crocodiles and Ethiopian tribal elders threw a woman’s “cursed” children to the crocs.
Don’t just read and say, “Wow”. News like that is designed to make you say “Wow.” Find out the truth for yourself.
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Deema
“Find out the truth for yourself.”—-Which is why not one but quite a few commenters posted links to other sources confirmationinget the use of black babies as alligator bait. Read all comments before giving advice or take your own.
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For all you white folks who have a hard time believing this, after studying white history, you shouldn’t be surprised. Black babies were kidnapped and used as alligator bait in the South. This shouldn’t surprise you as blacks were also locked in zoo cages and displayed as animals. We were stolen from Africa, enslaved for many years, beaten, molested, killed, had our basic human rights taken away, had been babies sold or used as alligator bait, civil rights era, Jim Crow Laws, police brutality, systematic racisim, mass unjust incarceration of blacks, destruction of black wall street by white civilians etc. Even Africa was destroyed through the process. Many useful bodies were stolen from the mother land that could have helped grow the African economy, brutal colonization and theft of Africa, African genocide, king Leopard and the Congo’s etc… Plus some African countries still pay colonization taxed to France. The fact that not once have blacks received any compensation for slavery but Europe and the Amerikkka’s prospered through the sweat, blood and tears of blacks. Even the slave owners gained compensation even after slavery. And even after slavery, blacks were still rounded up and falsely accused of nonexistance crimes just to force them to work for free and hence, the prison system evolved through free labour. Despite the facts that Amerikkka was built of the backs of blacks and the economy bombing through free labour. Nothing has changed and their is still black oppression in a racist white supremacist society. White people should be held accountable for all their actions and atrocities to the black race. They fail to acknowledge, make excuses and at times discredit the truth to make their guilty conscious feel better about the evilness that their race has bestowed on others. They deny everything even when it is right in their faces and that’s one main reason why racism still exist because of white silence and lack of acknowledgement.
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I’m here to say with a sincere heart that I am sorry for everything. The pictures of the memorabilia was enough to make me cry. If there was a way for me to go back to the time this happened… I just wish I could have stopped it. I’m very sorry 😞
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[…] abagond.wordpress.com/2010/08/11/alligator-bait/ […]
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This story is totally ludicrous. If you just went back and read some basic history about slavery you would know that. Most all blacks were property of rich plantation owners and adult slaves sold at auctions were very expensive and even woman and babies were very valuable. Why would you put a baby in a trap when you could just as easily use something like a chicken or small animal. I think this picture and other’s were made to scare small black children not to wander away from home or play near swamps and rivers where they could easily get eaten. This black guy just hears some cock and bull story from some obvious redneck and he takes it hook, line, and sinker. What makes it worse all of the people that saw the video actually believed it too.
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” I think this picture and other’s were made to scare small black children not to wander away from home or play near swamps and rivers where they could easily get eaten.” @MH, So, in other words that disgusting memorabilia was nothin’ more than your friendly, run-of-the-mill, neighborhood “public service announcement” made to protect Black children, eh? Why not feature one with their white counterparts as well, then? (Rhetorical Question, by the way)! GTFOH with that B.S.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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@Michael Howard
You might want to try that research advice. By thew 1900’s slavery had already ended, so most were not the property of some rich slave owner.
Secondly there are news paper articles advertising for it in the comment section, sooooo….
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@Mz.Nikita
People like MH are so stupid it hurts.
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As a teenager I was a huge fan of Miami Vice (1980s TV show). What’s now shocking about the show is Sonny Crockett’s pet alligator named Elvis (Crockett was played by White Actor Don Johnson). Elvis lived in Crockett’s sailboat, and, ironically, Elvis always tried biting Ricardo Tubbs (played by Black actor Philip Michael Thomas) at the end of virtually every episode. Like a fearful Black baby, Tubbs feared Crockett’s pet alligator. Wow! The White writers of Miami Vice pretty much knew the horrific stories of White southerner men using Black babies as alligator bait. Malcolm X once said that history is best qualified to reward our research. Only if Philip Michael Thomas knew the horrible history of Black babies as alligator bait. Man!
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@ Lord of Mirkwood
Fault the White supremacists and White extremists. They’re known for exerting energy from inhumane practices – like using helpless Black babies as bait.
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Did anyone ever stop to think that maybe just maybe the whole Alligator Bait thing could have been a joke among racist people you know like “That N-word ain’t good for nothin but gator bait.” There tons of memorabilia revolving around jokes about things that cannot be proven and never really happened. For example how many pictures do you think are floating around with Obama dressed as a terrorist? I don’t think he has ever been a terrorist. Not only that but gators are slow as hell. Why would you need bait when you could just shoot them?
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Vincent Daniels
Yep. Until someone posted a link with a newspaper advertisement seeking out black babies for bait.
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@ Vincent Daniels
“There tons of memorabilia revolving around jokes about things that cannot be proven and never really happened.”
.
Oh, you mean like the common killing, lynchings, castration, torturing, burning of Black bodies – including the raping and gutting while hanging of pregnant Black women, by WHITE people??
I’m sure in the ROSE COLORED LENSES whites love to peer through, none of those sadistic atrocities actually happened either. Right?
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The average slave was worth $400 in the money of the time, meaning they would be worth a whole lot more in today’s dollars. It’d be a lot cheaper to use an animal for alligator bait, and slavery for white and black slaveowners was all about the profit.
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Will Shetterly,
A few things to address here. 1. Slaves were killed for running away, so trying to rationalize there worth as a reason forthis not being true is pointless. 2. They were actually seen as animal, so…3.The black slave owners were mixed slave master children. Gifted slaves. Others were buying family. Of the small bit that did it for profit it is not worth counting.
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The gator bait stories are not about runaway slaves being punished. Slaves were worth far more than alligators—why would a capitalist risk losing valuable property just to get an alligator?
As for black slave owners, like white slave owners, there were people who owned a few slaves and people who owned a great many. The rich ones, like William Ellison, treated their slaves the same way their white peers did.
This might interest you: http://racisminamerica.org/five-of-the-wealthiest-blacks-who-owned-slaves-in-america/
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@Will Shetterly
I never said the gator bait stories were about runaway slaves being punished, but if a person is willing to kill a slave for running away I doubt they have any qualms about using one for alligator bait.
“why would a capitalist risk losing valuable property just to get an alligator?”—Same reason why a capitalist get’s rid of “risky” property. He would if he has not use for it and he would if there were more to gain from the alligator. Also if you read the post carefully this happened around 1900s, meaning slavery was already abolished.
“As for black slave owners, like white slave owners, there were people who owned a few slaves and people who owned a great many.”—-I am aware of tha but that does not change what I said. Allow me to repeat….”he black slave owners were mixed slave master children. Gifted slaves. Others were buying family. Of .”
Of those in the link it falls into my category of “the small bit that did it for profit it is not worth counting.” You did not present much to counter what I said.
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@ Will Shetterly
US slave owners generally did not work their slaves to death, yet if profit were their only motive, as you seem to think, they would have.
Likewise, if Blacks were truly inferior to Whites, there would be no need to dehumanize them by calling them names – or using them as alligator bait.
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@ Will Shetterly
If racists were rational there would be no racists.
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This popped up on FB today for me. It’s interesting that there is exactly ONE account of babies actually being fed to gators, although a number of newspaper accounts of babies being used as bait. I think there would be other components: less likely during slavery, but during the decades of Jim Crow there would be no economic disincentive to whites for such atrocities; places where black people were allowed to live would have put them at greater danger from hazards such as alligators–and of course the dominant society mentality is that such people are thus clearly inferior to “choose” to live in such places. Also, re economic disincentive, there are always some people of means who get more “reward” out of inhuman actions that are not economically rational.
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@Sheri McMahon
Good points.
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There’s also the high infant mortality rate to factor in when considering the practice during slavery. Children under the age of two or three had very high mortality rates compared to now, and my guess is that it would have been even higher among slave children due to the poor conditions in which they were forced to live, etc.
So there was no guarantee that an enslaved infant or toddler was going to grow up to be worth the price of an adult slave, simply from the fact that so many children died before the age of three. That may have played a part in the slave owner’s financial calculations, especially if (as may have been the case going by the majority of available accounts) the general practice was to keep the children alive rather than allowing the alligators to eat them. It would still have been a risky practice; there would still be a chance of a child being bitten or drowning or any number of other fatal mishaps. But since there was maybe a 50% chance that the child wouldn’t make it to adulthood anyway, the possible financial loss may not have loomed so large in the slave owner’s mind, especially when contrasted with the immediate financial gain to be had through selling the alligator’s hide.
It’s a very cold-hearted calculation, and I am in no way condoning it. But it may help to explain why slave owners were willing to risk losing the potential price of a slave child.
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Non sense , a street dog is much better than babies and no risk of be hang, steeling a slave was punish with death sentence.
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@Mario
I’m not sure what is more troubling…
1. The fact that there is denial when news paper article show wanted ads for black babies to be alligator bait or
2. The fact that you guys seem unaware of when slavery ended or
3. The fact that you think people valued slaves so much that they would not use them for alligator bait when they were beating them near death for reading.
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now in these days they are exporting democracy by killing and evacuation of the lands in other countries.There past and present is same.ha ha ha ha ha ha
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@ Tweetiebird
Comment deleted for using racial slur.
https://abagond.wordpress.com/comment-policy/
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Denounced by Snopes.com and I add:
Proof of assertions lacking but ample proof of horrors and atrocities committed by the Black USA populace these past 30 years. The amount of horrid incidents these past three decades exceed in horror that unproven minute amount of gator-baiting performed in the past… supposedly. Logic dictates that the financial worth of selling the Black slave far exceeded worth as bait when a dog or pig or other animal can be used to bait gators.
I look askance at this unverifiable claim and if it DID occur assuredly was extremely minimal. Do you burn one-hundred-dollar bills to light a camp fire? Of course not. Using a Black baby as bait is no different than burning money.
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Okay bunghole.
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The Snopes piece on alligator bait:
https://www.snopes.com/news/2017/06/09/black-children-alligator-bait/
Their conclusion:
“We are unable to prove the negative, of course. We cannot demonstrate that no infant anywhere, irrespective of color or creed, was ever used as reptile bait. But neither has anyone proved to date that infants were, in fact, used in such a manner.
“We checked this conclusion with Patricia Turner, who has probably done more research on the “alligator bait” motif than anyone else in the world, asking whether she had ever come across information suggesting that the phenomenon might be real. “I have not seen any evidence to suggest that it was true,” she said, adding that it would have been all the more unlikely during the era of slavery, when a black child would have been a much more valuable commodity than an alligator.
“Regardless, it is true that the notion that dark-skinned children were the favorite food of alligators and crocodiles, like so many other demeaning stereotypes about people of African descent, was already commonplace in the antebellum United States (“…they prefer the flesh of a negro to any other delicacy,” Fraser’s Magazine reported as a scientific fact in 1850). It’s therefore plausible to suppose that the epithet “alligator bait” did not follow from, but rather preceded the existence of stories depicting black children as such, which would relegate those stories to mere folklore.”
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@obbop
Yeah, slave owners and their apologists said that too, that as property they had a vested interest in the well-being of their property. The historical record says otherwise, with slaves being purposely maimed or worked to death.
You are also assuming that the racism that slavery gave rise to is itself logical. Even to this day the US does not act in its capitalist self-interest, let alone its moral well-being, when it comes to Black people.
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Update: Snopes did a piece on this in 2017 with loads of examples. They concluded that while the idea was common enough, there is no proof that anyone in fact acted on it.
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@ obbop
Thanks for pointing me to the Snopes article.
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Denial is no proof as we see with this current impeachment of Trump. If it can be determined that this is true Europeans should own up to the inhumanity. The European world is going to pieces from the theft and never paying it debt to the African and Aboriginal people . Never apologizing nor paying restitution. May the universe have mercy on the white world’s soul.
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[…] de caimanes (el Mr. Alligator de la canción), que era muy lucrativa a principios del siglo XX. Según parece, los cazadores utilizaban como cebo a los bebés de los esclavos. El término alligator bait se […]
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[…] de caimanes (el Mr. Alligator de la canción), que era muy lucrativa a principios del siglo XX. Según parece, los cazadores utilizaban como cebo a los bebés de los esclavos. El término alligator bait se […]
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[…] as bait to catch alligators. Alligator bait also known as “gator bait”, was said to have been practised in the swamps of Florida and Louisiana during the 1800s and […]
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