Over and over again people tell me – or assume – that I secretly desire white women, despite what I say or “want to believe”, that deep down I know they are the most beautiful, that if I had more money or success in life I would be with one.
Note: I am not here to bash white women. I am not here to make a pseudoscientific argument about their beauty or lack thereof. I am a firm believer that beauty is in the eye of the beholder and is beyond measurement by science.
Instead I am here to record my experience and feelings. This post is in the vein of this comment made by Kiwi on the White Default post:
As I got older, the porn actors I watched were ALWAYS white. Somehow, I was turned off by non-white porn actors, even Asian ones. I secretly desired white girls and thought they were the most beautiful. Asian girls to me looked gross and I thought they were like yellow monkeys.
Most of the porn I saw early on was white too – Playboy, Penthouse and Hustler – but once I had the money and nerve to buy porn, I bought mostly black porn.
As early as age 12 I started to understand that I was seriously out-of-step with (white) American ideas of beauty:
- I did not get the blonde-hair-blue-eyed thing at all. I knew, intellectually, that it was “supposed” to look better, but to me it did not. I liked black hair. All the way. I liked dark-brown, almond-shaped eyes – they were way better looking.
- The thing about big breasts I did understand, and not just intellectually either, but even there I preferred women with big bottoms over those with big breasts.
- I did not get the thin thing. Sure, thin was better than fat, but thick was better than either. The shape of black women was cut the right way – white women’s bodies were too straight up and down, too stick-like, not much shape (in general, of course).
- Thin lips: This was before Angelina Jolie gave thick lips the White Seal of Approval. Back then whites made it crystal clear that they found big lips disgusting. They did not even call them “big”. White vernacular culture had a far worse name for them. But despite that I loved big lips. They were anything but disgusting!
The face of a black woman could turn me on. White women almost always had to be naked to have the same effect. So this was not even a close thing.
It might sound like I pretty much escaped white racist ideas of beauty, but I did not get off clean:
- I did internalize shame. Even to this day, for example, I will not post a picture of a woman on Tumblr if her lips or bottom are “too” big.
- It took me a long, long time to understand that a beauty standard can be centred on black women without shame, without apologies.
See also:
- Are white women beautiful or is it society that makes them seem so?
- My adventures in porn
- Pseudoscientific arguments about the universal beauty of white women:
- The most beautiful white women – in my opinion, of course
- The ten most beautiful women in the world – of any race
Well, Abagond,though not the same thought process as you, I also have always had attractions for Afro diasporic women, I emphasize Afro diasporic because that doesnt include lets say, Papua New Guinea, its a definite cultural attraction tied in with my personal beauty standards. Besides being exposed very powerfully to black American culture, at a very young age, I was listening to and drawn in by black African music and dance, Afro Cuban music and dance, Afro Brazilian music and dance (mostly from the French movie Black Orpheus), Jamaican calypso(by way of harry Belafonte, i know , not the pure version),and jazz. It was always a total packedge, and the absolute beauty and grace of the black women who dance to these Afro diasporic cultures,( for those who do dance, obviously being black doesnt mean you can dance), was a profound affect on me…. which also doesnt mean a woman I am attracted to has to be able to dance , although, my deepest relationships have been with Afro diasporic dancers.
I have no exclusive policy about women, but the fundimental attraction to black beauty and what that means in relation to physical features , profoundly deep cultural affinity, sensitivity to the struggle against the racism and discimination in American society ( this just revealed an extra grace under preasure that the white women never could even really know) ,only make my head turn faster when a devasting black beauty passes me by…all shapes and sizes, from petit with booty, of any shade, to tall, from thick to thin
Its also great to hear the testimonials to those of you watching porn as a very healthy way to discovwer ones sexualiy…wish some of those contributions were on the porn thread
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A man would have to be completely brainwashed to find a white woman attractive.
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“Over and over again people tell me – or assume – that I secretly desire white women, despite what I say or “want to believe”, that deep down I know they are the most beautiful, that if I had more money or success in life I would be with one.”
***********
Abagond
You may remember that self-banned commenter w/serious black people issues (among others!) Jorbia, made this same ridiculous accusation – almost word for word – about all the black men on this blog.
Hope she’s very content and happy – elsewhere.
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You are one funny guy and if that is you above in the header you are hilarious.
I’ve enjoyed your five hundred words, today. Keep it up.
I wish your words could reach brothers that haven’t progressed enough to stand against their peers by dating and MARRYING Black women, just because it is their preference and they’re tired of hiding it from the world. Maybe your post will help other brothers come out of the “Black woman” closet to live an authentic life. Weirder things has happened.
Takes a real man, that is unafraid to walk alone and stand against the outgoing tide.
As a woman I admire Barack Obama, because at a time when all of his peers were settling on the right white woman, he made his choice to marry who he loved and not what was popular.
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Growing up around white people has given me a great perspective on them, especially their women. Yurugu’s daughter has been fluffed up to be the pinnacle of “womanhood” ever since the creation of whiteness. This of course, was necessary to debase the Original Earth Mother.
That is why no matter how flawed and evil she is, she is given the benefit of the doubt, made to seem innocent of her doings and coddled for her imperfections.
It has been my observation that black males who desire her wish to obtain a status, if only in his mind, that he feels will bring him closer to whiteness. White females are, quite simply, the most cunning, brutal, greedy, money-hungry, huntresses that ever lived. They will do whatever it takes to keep their status quo.
Black men who fall for this trickery are brainwashed by society’s propaganda. The white female has absolutely nothing to offer any black man in terms of spirituality for she is missing the other half of herself. Having only the male principle , she is best suited for her white counterpart where they can compete relentlessly for power and money.
Black men who are drawn to Yurugu’s daughter as being lead down a dangerous and slippery slope. She is a pawn for white supremacy and her father will use her as the last resort to disable the black family.
HIS-Story never lies. And make no mistake…absolutely nothing as changed. White females are more dangerous and slippery than white males. It is she that gave birth to him. Groomed him and taught him everything that he knows to function in this society where he earns everything for doing nothing. The black man that seeks the white woman will end up in a very precarious situation. But, of course, that’s for him to discover.
As for all black men “wanting” this pale-skinned being…?
LOL!
I’m proud to say that I’ve got black men in my family that would rather be celibate for eternity than to touch this being.
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As always, great essay. I usually just read but wanted to thank you for this piece and the link to the Salon article by Katrina Richardson. I also love the pic of that brother in that sea of white folks with that look on his face like “get me outta here!!!” I’ve been there myself!
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As a Black person typically growing up in a white society, particularly when subjected to the “white default” model, it takes conscious effort on the part of the non-white individual to avoid succumbing to identify with this mono ethnic group.
To a large part this depends on your family upbringing and any alternative ethnic role models you might be exposed to. Certainly for my self growing up in the UK in a predominately white community (Liverpool) these were not always easy to find.
It also depends initially on parental influence and how their own choices have been reflected in their own relationships. For me they appeared to reflect both white and Black so growing up for me it was easy to adopt a “colour blind” approach towards personal relationships. But this quickly changed when I realised the significance that colour, and specifically, the shade of colour, played in the attention one received. The darker you were the more negatively this was played out
This had an adverse effect on me and probably made me feel less attracted to white (and Black) women I sensed had issues with colour. But there was always something else (for me) going on here as far as attraction was concerned….
Coming from a fairly religious background, not overtly so, but just enough to imbue basic spiritual principles. I generally tended to seek these same qualities in others. In general white people failed miserably in this area but then Black people only seemed marginally better. However, it was also obviously apparent (certainly to me) that the beauty of Black women was being understated. I suppose this came from my having already inherited a positive “Black self image” from my parents.
It always struck me as curious why some Black men didn’t seem to be aware of this too. But that was because they were still hypnotised by the “white ethnic default” model. Of course this all changed when they got older and more “Black consciously aware”.
Now… having had this experience and the opportunity to delve deeper into spirituality, specifically, I’ve realised that desire and attraction can take place on a far more deeper level than most people realise. We all get the chance and opportunity to experience life as a different ethnic group regardless of how we see ourselves in this present lifetime. This means attraction to a particular ethnicity can span many lifetimes or not. It has to otherwise our planetary population would be less diverse than it is.
While we can all learn to spot inauthentic and superficial relationships we can also learn to spot those which seem “spiritually matched”. Sadly, most relationships (Black and white, or white and non-white) I’ve tended to encounter tended to fall in the former category. – Inauthentic. But of course, it doesn’t always have to be this way… 🙂
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God, black people love to lie to each other when it comes to sex and race. Everyone here is desperately trying to convince everybody else that they would never find a white person attractive. “Asian girls to me looked gross and I thought they were like yellow monkeys.” Kiwi should have included pictures to go along with that statement, I’m having trouble imagining any of the asian porn actresses in the last 30 years looking that bad. “I’m proud to say that I’ve got black men in my family that would rather be celibate for eternity than to touch this being.” truthbetold do you really believe this nonsense. Abagond, why do you have Aniston’s picture instead of a really good looking white woman?
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Growing up in California,I was around white folks all the time. I went to integrated schools from first grade through twelfth grade. I had buddies that dated white girls. I have cousins married to white,Mexican and Persian women. In California interracial marriage is commonplace. Although I saw white beauty on television all my life—I never thought they were better or more attractive than sistas. I have no interest in white women. I can’t build a strong black family with one. I also believe you can’t fight your oppressor and sleep with your oppressor at the same time. It doesn’t work that way. Actually on average I find Puert Rican,Cuban and Asian women more attractive than white girls. White women are the least attractive women on the planet. Their non-pigment is not attractive to me at all. Their limp hair and pancake backsides are most unattractive as well. The black women is physically superior on every level. Just my 2 cents.
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Unfortunately, I grew up in a household of self hating and very angry black family members. Watching television during a commercial break or some prime time program I had an uncle that would remark about the beautiful blonde white woman on television. He reminded me of the character on the Boon Dock’s. The Uncle that is self hating. I grew up with that and was exposed to that sick and sad mentality everyday.
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“Gro Jo,
Abagond, why do you have Aniston’s picture instead of a really good looking white woman?”
LOL…that’s so true….I can’t stand how the magazines try to push these average-looking women like Gwyneth Paltrow, Julia Roberts or Aniston as “beautiful”… they are setting the bar really low…
someone like Catherine Zeta-Jones or Doutzen Kroes should be where the “white beauty” bar starts
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@Abagond
Could I offer a suggestion. If you must put a picture of a white woman up– Megan Fox or Ashley Judd I find tolerable. But quite frankly Jennifer Aniston scares me bit. Something freaky about those eyes.lol Or maybe it’s just that particular picture.
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How is Gwyneth Paltrow the most beautiful? I guess we are just supposed to eat up what white Hollywood pushes on us.
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@Mary
You have an Uncle Ruckus in your family?? I’m sorry to hear that. I know a few negroes like that. They hate what they see in the mirror. They suffer from a sick disease known as Negrophobia. The only cure is getting “knowledge of self”. Until then they’ll stay in a sick self-hating mindset. And they are of no use to the black collective.
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People magazine voted Gwyneth Paltrow the most beautiful. I think she is just an average looking female.
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@ Kushite
I put up a less scary picture of Jennifer Anniston.
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@ Kushite; God .rest him. He passed away. But having the Uncle Rukus mentality was truly sad. I think about him and shed a tear
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Peanut, you really are on the money about a lot of things..I also agree cultural exposure has a tremendous affect, mainly as an option for the individual…a person might not respond to that culture , but another person might…I know I was against the grain at that time, but I was true to my heart and soul…I couldnt follow societies preasures as I grew up, to abandon the connections and contacts in grade school, including things like holding hands with my black girl classmates at 5 playing house under teachers guidance, i can remember to this day the warmth in her hand and how she breathed….
And this is where I also hear you, Kwamla, about something in my soul, I dont know the truth, or pretend to , I can tell you an extrodinary jazz drummer , Steve Mccall, said the same thing you did now many years ago on a Southside street corner in Chicago, to me, and I never forgot it, so i dont discount the possibility
You have to understand, we lived right next to a larger black American community, but inside the house, was a bastion of western culture, with busts of Shakespeare, Bhethoven (yeah, spelling). books upon books, my father was a writer, but made his daily bread selling used books and records…he made tapes for th Chicago classical music stations of Toscanini, and Carouso..my mom did have a Fats Waller record I wore out and we listened to Sam Cook, but in my bed room, on my box, was Olatunji’s first record before Drums of Passion,Art Blakey and his hard bop on one side, drum collective on the other, Cuba Libra, a record of gorgous Cuban songs,Bird and Diz, Harry Belafonte,Fontela Bass, James Brown,etc etc a lot of drum music, and me playing my bongos with it since I was 8….
Something deep in my soul and being was pulling me to a culture…a huge huge culture with deep ramifications about the universe
And Peanut , you are so right, I can tell people over and over how deeply I am attracted to black women, but they just wont hear it, they are just playing a losing game , ignore them
Its not that I hate white women at all, I had a relationship with a white woman actress in New York for 5 years, I love all women, but I have powerful things that words dont describe that tune into black women…and you know men also in the sence of role models…black Afro diasporic men have provided incredible role models in my life, and continue to
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@Mary
Gwenyth,Reese Witherspoon,Katy Perry,Kate Hudson,Paris Hilton,Julia Roberts and Sandra Bullock are all average in my opinion. If they weren’t famous and I saw them on the street I wouldn’t even look twice. White beauty is over hyped in Hollyweird. I will admit I think Scarlett Johannsen,Angelina Jolie and Megan Fox would be considered above average in looks.
But think about black women like Angela Bassett,Nia Long,Meagan Good,Pam Grier,Freema Agyeman,Sanaa Lathan,Beyonce,Lauryn Hill,Gabrielle Union,Zoe Saldana and Kerry Washington. None of these women get the real props they deserve for their stunning beauty like the white stars get. Even if you go back fifty years,Dorothy Dandridge didn’t get as much love as Rita Hatworth,Sophia Loren or Elizabeth Taylor. Only Marilyn Monroe came close to her beauty. And I only say that because Monroe had curves on her. As a natter of fact,Monroe would probably be considered fat by today’s white standards. She’s more attractive than most white starlets today. I think one of the reasons Marilyn is looked at as such a beauty icon was because of her curvaceous figure. I think whites know that nice butt and hips is what looks best on a real woman. That’s why the media hypes up imitation black women like Kim Kardashian.lol But no thanks,I’d rather have the real thing. 🙂
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@Abagond
Greatly appreciated.lol
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I’m sorry to hear that. You’re right,that’s a sad mental state to be in.
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Linda, you are the only one here making sense to me. Peanut, I made no comment as far as you are concerned and I didn’t claim that Abagond was lying, but I found his use of Aniston’s face disingenuous. Aniston’s face may be a bit too equine for my taste, but I have no complaint when it comes to her body. Even plain women can have traits that appeal. We can, and do fetishize some part of the person we desire all the time. Desire is not as easy to nail down as the debate would lead one to conclude so far. Be honest, have you never changed your mind concerning the attractiveness of someone? I found truthbetold naive or pretending to be so, nothing more. When we blacks get together we do lie to each other about finding people of other races attractive because we fear being seen as disloyal to the “brand”. The most that can be said about sexual attraction is that all our notions about it are nothing more than after the fact rationalizations.
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Much respect for this post abagond. Let me say this I love that you are attracted to sistas and said beauty is in the eye of the BEHOLDER. sadly when white men and Asian men do something like this they try to use SCIENCE to back up their claim that white women are more beautiful.
Jennifer aniston is ok looking I still don’t understand why ppl push her as the most beautiful. Maybe her personality but looks wise she’s not all that. They try to show us images of white women all the time and say she is beauty.If they basically have to condition people into thinking someone is beautiful then maybe that person really isn’t that beautiful. When you see something over and over again sometimes you will want that, this is how they sell products. THey are trying to sell us the idea that white women are better and the most beautiful. Imo if you really are all those things then you wouldn’t need to trick or lie to people. If you ask someone what they like physically about a woman and they say lips, eyes, hips, etc. Then when you show them a woman that looks like that then they should want her. But when you add race to it, it becomes a game no longer about your nature. I wish someone would do a study where they show images of women that have the features they like and change the race of the image, but all the facial features stay the same and see if they still find her attractive. If they say they are still attracted to her then congrats they aren’t brainwashed. If they say they are not attracted to her then they have been brainwashed and can’t hide behind the excuse of oh her facial features changed[ facial features stayed the same only thing changed was the color] and I don’t find that attractive. This is the difference between most black men and most white/ Asian men is that when you ask a black man what he finds attractive in a woman and he says butt, lips, legs,curves, then when you show him a woman like that he will want her, regardless of race, which is why a lot of them go crazy for kim k even when they say they like black women. If you ask a white/Asian man what they like in a woman and they say thin, big boobs, nice lips, if you show them a woman like that who isn’t white or Asian they mostly will turn her down. Then say oh its her facial features, but wait when someone asked you what u like in a woman u didn’t mention all that extra stuff of her jaw has to be this width, her ears have to be this spaced apart,etc. They go against nature and try to explain their preference with science. which is why most women like black men, they aren’t worried about all the extra stuff they like who they like and don’t apologize for it, women want men who love them unapologetically.
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@ gro jo
I put up Anniston because I remember white people saying how beautiful she was and I just did not see it. To me she is plain.
So are most white Hollywood actresses since the 1960s. I pretty much agree with Kushite’s lists for the current crop of actresses. Megan Fox and Sophia Loren are knock-out beautiful. Julia Roberts and Gwyneth Paltrow – no way.
It is not that I want to or need to deny that white women can be beautiful – my blog gives proof of that. It is that I do not see what most white people seem to see in many of these supposedly beautiful women.
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White Hollywood is a brainwashing machine.
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Hmmmm…sounds like projection to me. Many of the same people posting on this thread have no hang ups about acknowledging “attractiveness” in others–the difference is that they ALSO know that there are an infinite number of Black dreamboats.
Are you really white? Because white people tend to be very insecure when this topic comes up and internalize it as though they are being “left out”…thus your comment i quoted above.
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I wonder why they say Jennifer aniston and Julia Roberts are beautiful. imo they just didn’t age as terribly as some of the other women in Hollywood. Just because someone didn’t age much or still looks the same as they did 10 years ago don’t mean they beautiful.If an ugly person doesn’t age much they still ugly. If a beautiful person doesn’t age much they still beautiful. I think the women who age well and look beautiful or get more beautiful as they are age are beautiful. Like chili and vivica fox before plastic surgery and toni Braxton.
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We all seem to agree that Aniston is plain. I agree with your choice of beautiful white women. The thing that I found unreal about the discussion was the notion that a person has complete control and understanding of his desires.
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Am I white, phoebeprunelle, your question is absurd. You seem to be the big expert on desire why don’t you tell us what role if any, the subcounscious plays in it.
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Good article, Abagond. I believe that most Black men desire White women, subconsciously and unconsciously for their sexual fantasies however I do believe that most Black men prefer to settle down with a Black woman.
And p.s. Jennifer Aniston is a plain Jane. Why didn’t you find pictures of a beautiful White woman to post? Her looks are overrated and I am sick of hearing her average looking face everywhere I go. She isn’t even pretty either.
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Claiming to be an expert? Where did you get that idea?
If you are a Black man that finds white women physically appealing–more power to you. However, your individual attraction is not representative of Black men as a whole which you seemed to imply up thread.
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Peanut, who gets to say who’s black? Are there black opinions? Who decides what they are? “no matter how beautiful a black woman is, she’s just like…black and…well liking a black woman over a white woma is just like…weird…right??” What are you talking about? I don’t set the rules for ELLE or any other magazine, I find both B. Turner and N. Irving very pretty. I’m glad that you see that attraction isn’t a simple emotion. I maintain that people are attracted to something first and later make up a story why the thing is beautiful, since whites run things their rationalizations prevail. I’ll give you an example, This black guy married this average looking white woman and now swears that she is the epitome of beauty. I knew him when he dated black women, back then he was full of praise for them. The moral of this story is that you tell yourself that the choice you make is for the best as long as it doesn’t turn out disastrously. That’s all I want to say on this subject.
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@Peanut
Jennifer Aniston looks like a plain Jane and doesn’t even look remotely sexually appealing. I don’t find Heidi Klum that attractive either but she is prettier than Plain Jane Aniston, that is for sure! I think a picture of Scarlett Johanssen or Pam Anderson should be used. Both look like White women, both of them are very pretty and most of all, they have voluptuous curves that Black men love.
Other than that, most Black men prefer Black women. Most Black men in AmeriKKKlan and UK may have secret sexual fantasies of White women and date them to fulfill their fantasies but most of them will settle down with a Black woman. The media and White racists would like everyone to believe that Black men prefer White women but they are just using this stereotype to promote the so called purity and beauty of a White woman.
And Black women and women of other races are beautiful too, (moreso than White women in my opinion). I think White women’s looks are so overrated! Yes White women are beautiful but what about other races of women?
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phoebeprunelle, God you are tiresome, why would I care what the opinion of other black men is? Are you in the habit of letting others do your thinking for you? “your individual attraction is not representative of Black men as a whole which you seemed to imply up thread.” Abagond and a number of other black males on this thread agree with me that J. Aniston is plain and S. Loren was hot. You attribute to me a dislike for black women for some reason. Please reread my comments with greater care to disabuse yourself of this erroneous belief.
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Wow. This post made me want to give you a hug and a cup of tea.
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@ Adeen
I feel just the same way about her, which is why I put her up there – as the poster child of overrated white beauty. The picture is not decorative but is there to help make the point of the post.
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Ummm wutt????? Lol. Where did i say that?
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Peanut, phoebeprunelle
I believe Gro Jo has a Haitian/ Caribbean background because we had a great conversation on the American abolitionists post
I can honestly say that I think it’s ridiculous for someone to be accused of being “white” because they disagree with other black posters on this blog.
We all come from different places, cultures, or countries, so most likely we Will have different view points on many subjects
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@Linda,
I didn’t accuse him of being white–i asked was he white.
Up thread he made the false assumption that Black people–when alone or on all Black blogs “lie” about being attracted to non-Blacks for fear of being labeled “disloyal”. It sounded too much like a white person being insecure that they were not the center of attention hence my question to him.
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Thanks Peanut,
I thought i was the only one who caught that anti-Black statement.
What i observe time and time again is that it is totally wrong for Black men to express any kind of affection for Black women online. If he says anything positive towards Black women about our looks–he is deemed “closed-minded”, “living in the past” and “has something against white women”.
Basically, Gro jo did exactly what Abagond said here:
Not ALL Black men lust after white women and if they do not there is nothing wrong with that.
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@ peanut
Yeah a lot of them are insecure and can’t stand when a man is attracted to black women. Go to any vid uplifting black women and they are on there calling it racist. In the vid the person isn’t even mentioning other women or putting them down but they attack him. It is the reason why when a beautiful black woman walks by a white woman with a black man the white woman will stare her down and hold on to her man lol. I see that ish all the time here its pathetic. If a man is going to cheat or finds another woman attractive what you gonna do, I can’t stand insecure people. Shoot I was at the mall with my mom and brother a couple years ago and this white woman was staring at me and giving me the death eye when she and her black boyfriend was walking by me I just looked away. I was about 16 and was too young for him anyway and was not attracted to him smh.
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@Peanut
That is what I mean. I believe most Black men prefer Black women and would rather settle down with a Black woman than White woman. There is always a few exceptions though. I do think most Black men have sexual fantasies about White women and date them for superficial reasons, most of the time. It is a actually rare that a Black man finds a soul mate in a White woman. Racists, insecure Black women and the media wants you to think that Black men prefer White women uphold the supposed beauty and purity of a White woman above anything else.
@MsTooGood
I always get mean stares from White women and I don’t know why. I am not mean, loud or ghetto and I carry myself nicely too. I live in a mostly White town and to tell the truth, most White women I come in contact with are very insecure beings and I don’t understand why. I have had White girls onto to their man when I am around and I don’t understand why. What about me is intimidating? What did I do to them? I didn’t do anything to them.
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@ Adeen
It’s ok when they do that ish I laugh to myself ,wish i had some popcorn, and think if yall are really so beautiful then why are you worried about an inferior ugly black woman. The obvious answer is that they are insecure and everybody knows who we are except us. Go to vids on our natural hair and white women are on there with jealousy and saying oh I love your hair and I wish I had your hair and yall age so well. You see how when a lot of them were tanning and other races of people started noticing it and were saying oh they are insecure and want darker skin look what happened. They started making commercials telling them to stop tanning or they will get skin cancer. Its why we see a lot of white women with biracial babies now they think its cute and love the features.
When black people do stuff like this we’re told we have self hate, when whites do it they are told they are exploring and curious. They can’t have white women taken off the pedestal or else white supremacy would pretty much fall.
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Peanut writes:
“[…] some people automatically assume that every man prefers a white woman’s because white women are supposed to be just well better…so even when a man says I prefer x,y,z women, he’s just lying because white women are just superior.”
——
I’ve been witness to that sort of thing.
There was a site a few years back with just such a premise. As far as the ownership of that site was concerned the overwhelming majority of Black men would only be with white women if they had their ‘druthers’. According to the site, Black actors such as Denzel Washington and Samuel L. Jackson would definitely not bother with Black women if it weren’t for the restrictive times in which they were raised and first became married. That if these Black men were among the young men of today, they would most definitely take a white woman as a bride.
The acknowledged belief of the owners of the website was that Black men only bother with the women of their own race – the women who look most like themselves – is when they have no other options, as the most natural choice for any man is a white woman.
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“Up thread he made the false assumption that Black people–when alone or on all Black blogs “lie” about being attracted to non-Blacks for fear of being labeled “disloyal”. It sounded too much like a white person being insecure that they were not the center of attention hence my question to him.
Thanks Peanut,
I thought i was the only one who caught that anti-Black statement
Basically, Gro jo did exactly what Abagond said here”
Linda says,
I hear you..it just that I’ve seen it happen from time to time that when a poster goes against the tide, then someone will throw out the “you must be white” comment — especially if they are unfamiliar with the poster.
I think it’s easier to catch real white racists who try to pretend because they say things that NO black person (from any country) would say, such as throwing out criminal statistics to prove a point about black people.
I didn’t see Gro Jo’s comments as anti-black –he/she seemed to be making a general statement based on real world behaviors — that as black/ brown people, none of us have escaped the indoctrination of white/European society, especially when it comes to beauty
From what I’ve seen, most people are attracted to people from their own ethnic/cultural group. We all know that majority of black or brown or white people marry each other
but we also know that in any white-majority country, white women are considered more beautiful than black women (especially by the media) and that a lot of black /brown men give white women more props than they deserve, (especially if they’re blond)
I’ve witness the frenzy first hand when my white girlfriend dyed her brown hair blond; we went to south Beach and you would have thought this chick was a super-model the way black, Latino, and white men were checking her…all I heard was, “Mami, whose your friend” … I’m like the “same white girl you were ignoring last week”
When I was younger (and single) if a black or Latino guy decided to talk to Becky before he stepped to me, I would blow him off — I would tell them that “I don’t play second fiddle to any white chick, especially if she blew you off before you came to me — I’m not the consolation prize”
Now when it comes to looking or finding someone “hot”, I think we’ve all crossed the border but in the end, most of us want compatibility and find ourselves “going back home”
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mstoogood4yall writes:
“…yall age so well.”
—–
Some of them are totally clueless about it… that is, until they notice that a Black woman their own age or even older doesn’t have all the cross hatching, crow’s feet and lip pucker lines et cetera their carrying around on their faces by the time they reach their late 30s (early 20s in the case of crow’s feet).
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* they are carrying around…
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@Peanut
I agree and it is not true that no one likes Black women. The media, racist Whites and sellout Black males want people to think that Black women aren’t desired or wanted. In fact, many men of other races like Black women including Black men.
@Mstoogood
You are right yet White women are considered the most beautiful women on earth??? Black features aren’t considered beautiful until they are on a White, Latina or Asian woman. Example: Kim Kardashian. As a young, Black woman, I lack voluptuous curves Black women have but I have a butt. However this White chick in school gets more attention for hers because it isn’t common for a White girl to have a butt. Well I am your usual Black girl who wears a size 2 but has a butt.
I really liked your post 🙂
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Peanut, it’s probably been a decade since I last saw the site mentioned in my comment. It might have been Steve Sailer, but, in all honesty, I do not recall who it was that ran the site.
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Propaganda is all that is making blonde/blue eyes being the standard for beauty in USA. Funny you have J. Anniston as the poster board for white women. She is plain, along with Julia Roberts. I think Cindy Crawford and Ana Nicole Smith would be in the beautiful white women category.
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This is a great post. I’m a Korean-American who grew up having my taste in women ridiculed by almost everyone else. It seems that my tastes are an eclectic mix of various features so it opens me up to criticism from pretty much all of my friends. In college I was known as the guy with the “loose” standards because I didn’t subscribe to the “ideal” of white beauty, and I wasn’t exactly a follower of either the traditional or westernized concepts of Korean/Asian beauty. I too internalized shame over this and thought for the longest time that I really did have loose standards and that the women I dated were not “beautiful”. But my heart (and other parts :-p) seemed to think those same women were very attractive! Ever since I realized that it was everyone else who was wrong I’ve been much happier.
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“John Mayer calls his penis a white supremacist […]”
Yeah, the swarthy, “half jewish” John Mayer said his penis is a white supremacist as, apparently, bleached blonde shiksas are what it seems to give an automatic Hitler-like salute to.
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Regarding pictures of attractive/beautiful Black women, check out the following tumblrs:
http://www.whenblackwasinvogue.tumblr.com
http://www.shadesofblackness.tumblr.com
http://www.allbeautifulblackgirls.tumblr.com
Many many beautiful photos of Black women of ALL complexions. Great stuff! Check it out!
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The media does like to portray unattractive white people as attractive a lot.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen this done for a black characters even really attractive black people looks are ignored on white tv.
As a person who lives around a lot of white people I can say that on average they look worse than black people to me.
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“Over and over again people tell me – or assume – that I secretly desire white women”
@abagond really? I didn’t get that from reading maybe half of your blog so far? I have some ideas about my perception of your attitude towards IRR’s, but it’s not really that deep or important.
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I never understood the Julia Roberts is so beautiful. But I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
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Julia Roberts and the others are quite normal to me. I heard a radio talk show host say he thought Angela Bassett looked like a man and Halle Berry was beautiful. I said to myself what a sucker. Bassett is one of the most beautiful and underrated black female actors. Every time I see her I react like the characters from ‘Cloudy with a chance of meatballs’ when they saw food fall from the sky.
Ohh, nothing about white porn turns me on, It’s like reading a text book. Black porn gets me all restless and turned on (especially the good ones), I’ll be like “shit, why the hell did I watch this?”
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jennifer aniston looked hot in office space, other than that, eh i’m neutral…
porn, eh it’s like not even close to reliving mi barrio en los angeles de 1991, i use it because it’s safe and cost-effective and keeps fleas and other parasites out of the house
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@Solesearch
Agreed. I am a pretty, young(I am 18 years old) Black woman and I live in a mostly White area are is mostly ignored. I plan on moving back to my native home state of New York though. But my mother taught me that as long as someone has White skin they are considered pretty no matter how pretty or ugly they really are. She told me it was a way to maintain White supremacy.
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@Adeen
If reference to your comment above.
Do you really believe that? I hear whites ripping on whites more than they do blacks. Maybe if you said.. An equally attractive person gets more attention if they are white, I would then agree. Other than that I think you are exaggerating.
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dave:
Maybe if you said.. An equally attractive person gets more attention if they are white, I would then agree. Other than that I think you are exaggerating.
Unfortunately I dont think she is exaggerating at all. I hear it and see it a lot and I have seen first hand the way it leaves a lasting legacy.
I also now acknowledge that the ‘beauty’ or ‘appeal’ of asian women has been non existent – as if they are invisible or, for ladies from South Asia, again open for mocking too.
I have a theory as to why this is too dave – some white men are scared/embarresed/too inhibited to cross the ‘colour’ line and need to act as though to do so, is so amusing that it is untrue. Not the reason in all cases of course.
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Thanks Ellis! Those were great links! 🙂
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@ B.R
This tells me you at least have a bit more personal spiritual insight than maybe others here. Also, a willingness to listen, learn and reflect on those experiences with other people.
We can all learn a lot from inner reflection rather than outward projection. Of course we can learn from both. But we can never really appreciate anything if we are too busy outwardly projecting our thoughts and feelings all the time.
Sometimes it pays to put our egos to one side and listen to what we are actually reflecting back to ourselves. Which is how I understand your comment here.
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I admit that I was brainwashed at an early age. I didn’t realize it at the time when I had a thing for Madonna, something I regret to this day.
As I grew older, I considered all women to be beautiful. I didn’t have a preference. I even thought dark skinned women were sexy, and I still do.
Today, I still think all women are beautiful, but I still place black women, including dark-skinned women, at the top.
I was never a fan of big boobs. To me I think they are overrated in my opinion. I love big booties. There’s no question. But I also love bellies.
I think a woman with a chubby belly is sexy to me. It turns me on. Flat bellies are often the seen as the default for sexy, but to me a little fat or a pooch in that area will turn my head.
As far as Jennifer Aniston goes…eh, she’s okay I guess. She looks plain to me.
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I think it’s sickening that people think every woman on the planet is beautiful except black women for the most pathetic reasons. Since whiteness lifts up white people to ridiculously high standards, more than it deserves, it also lowers standards of others, and for insidious and stupid reasons, blackness is always at the bottom.
Whiteness always pits that the biggest problem it faces deals with people of color. There can be no disputing that. Yet, saying so is a problem for some people because it’s offensive to them. And their feelings are always placed above the hurt emotions of those who go through it every day.
What a world!
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Abagond, I for one appreciate the fact that you have such a deep admiration for the beauty of Black women. When I discovered your blog, it reassured me that not all Black men have bought into the lie of the supposed inferiority of Black female beauty. Why any group of people would have the audacity to believe their looks are the epitome of attractiveness is beyond me. As a Black woman, most of the men I find handsome are Black men. I love the smooth dark skin that ages well. Don’t get me started on his full lips or big brown eyes. Black men also have nice asses( Ha ha I’m a female version of Abagond!)! Just because I’m more attracted doesn’t mean that I don’t find some non-Black men handsome. I just don’t believe in a standard of beauty. God is so creative and He has put beautiful people in all skintones, nationalities and ethnicities. NO ONE group has a monopoly on attractiveness. NO ONE.
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@Dave
I am not exaggerating. In fact, that is what I experience in my mostly White town. I look good but in my town an average looking White girl gets more attention than me. As long as a girl has White skin, light eyes and long hair, she is considered pretty even if she is average or ugly. I see it a lot.
@Omnipresent
Exactly, you see my point! Dave doesn’t.
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@ Adeen; No it’s no exaggeration. Average and even not attractive white women are considered beautiful just because they have white skin.
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@ Adeen
Adeen, you said that some white women have given you mean looks and grabbed on to their Black man when you walk by. Just ignore them and continue to be the intelligent young woman that you strike me as being. Sometimes when Black women (Black people in general) don’t fit into their narrowminded view of what a Black woman is supposed to look like or act like it makes them mad (at least this has been my experience with some of them). A loud, uncouth, unattractive and unfeminine Black woman is not a threat to the assumed superiority of a white female. Don’t let a Black woman be thin, attractive, smart, articulate and feminine; the claws come out then! When a Black female is all of those things, she represents a threat to white women because they are on equal level. Don’t believe me? Who seems to generate more hate right now, Michelle Obama or Monique?
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I have black issues…What I mean is that I find black men or men of color the most attractive and intelligent. But in terms of coupling with them, it has been a life long impossibility. I think the reason is that well EVERYONE thinks that black men are the most attractive men in comparison with other groups.The competition has always been pretty crazy. I just stay out of the fray. The trouble is many black men in my experience really do prefer the lighter whiter woman . I am a light brown skinned woman .And personally, I am sick of being called “high yella”. Latinas are considered perfect for black men because they have white features but womanly bodies. Only white men have shown any interest in me and well…I am heterosexual and I can’t help that. There is a vibrant black lesbian community here and well, as I said not my thing..I can’t even get an Asian or Latina to show interest…just white. Don’t get me wrong a good man should be appreciated no matter his color but wow, it would be nice to be asked, approached…whatever.
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I just want to piggyback on what everyone else said about Jennifer Aniston. Girlfriend is NOT beautiful. I think she is aging very well for a woman in her forties; she’s definitely one of the older women who I admire for still being fit past a certain age. Jennifer has an American girl next door vibe about her. She’s cute in that sort of way. White society does have a tendency to elevate white women who at best are just average looking (Katherine Heigl comes to mind.). I too have often wondered why they go gaga over certain women. I thought it was just cultural differences.
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Race is a myth. You are laudable to be so emotionally honest, Abagond, and this is all fine as far as it goes, and all of us have feelings that are conditioned yes, by white supremacy, and by all other mass media influences conscious and sub conscious from childhood onward.
But this is not at all a binary or a linear reality, it is quantum. We are influenced sexually and erotically by a host of countless causalities and influences public and private, and by millions of sights and scents, and tactile perceptions, from child development and from adult socialization, from family and from ethnicity and from our mothers and aunts (if your mother and your aunts are Black, well, gee whiz, according to Freudian theory AND anthropology you are going to have erotic feelings attached to Black women when you grow into an adolescent).
The influences are for my own generation (men in our forties and fifties) powerfully influenced by TV. To this day I have powerful erotic feelings that are activated by women who look like Lola Falana: dark skin, short natural hair, small breasts, long limbs–she was often on talk shows I watched as a child, and I was enthralled by her physical expressivity as a dancer and her articulate personality when trading barbs with talk show host Mike Douglass. I also have just as strong an erotic reaction to ‘white’ women who look like Adrienne Barbeau, from the TV show “Maude”: short, black, wavy hair, large breasts, big soulful eyes, big smile, feminist consciousness expressed by intense intellectualism. I had a brief relationship with a beautiful ‘white’ woman named Julie who was a double for Barbeau one summer at Cornell, one of the sweetest, most erotic encounters of my life. Right alongside that memory is my brief relationship with a Black model named Alicia in New York City who looked just like Lola Falana, a woman I will also always remember because of the intensity of my erotic attraction to her. I am also intensely attracted to Puerto Rican women because my daughter’s mother is Puerto Rican. I am attracted to Italian American women because one of the strongest loves of my life, who may ultimately turn out to be the greatest love of my life, was an Italian American named Perri.
We develop erotic attractions, romantic attractions, and deep love for certain types of women also, you see, due to EXPERIENCE. ALL these factors determine who and what a man, including a ‘Black’ man is attracted to. ‘Secretly’ just means subconscious, and who the hell is aware of all within him that is subconscious? If we were, it wouldn’t be called ‘subconscious’. I admire your writings, Abagond, but I think you are catering a little too much here to the dominant irrationality of American culture with this one. Your feelings are yours, and if not exactly private, they are, like mine, like all Black men’s, like all human beings’, singular and personal, not ideologically programmatic.
I think it always helps to humanize Black men whenever we express in public the feelings we have that America says we don’t since we are supposedly beasts and rapists or psychosexual automatons rather than men. However, when feelings are overtly coded as racial in vulgar sociopolitical interpretations, we enter the land of Pish-posh and are simply talking gobble-dee-goop.
Race is a myth. There are no ‘White’ people (can you point to a ‘Whiteland’ or a ‘Whitonia’ on the map? No). There are no ‘Black’ people (where on that map can be found ‘Black Island’, or ‘Blackcasterberg’? No such thing). Race is an arbitrary biological trait, and insignificana, that was artificially fetishized by European colonizers following in the footsteps of European slave traders to justify the corporate, Atlantic Triangle Slave Trade after mercantilism was murdered in it’s crib by capitalism and capitalism imposed a five hundred year global nightmare of profit motive on the planet, the nightmare we are all currently trapped inside of until capitalism finally realizes it is dead, and like the dinosaur, that kept on striding for a mile before it’s body realized it’s brain was dead, pitches over and is finished.
Women, no matter what skin color or ethnicity or nationality were meant, by the reproductive biology coded into us all by DNA and the romanticism coded into us all by Algernon Charles Swinburn, to be loved and desired by men, whoever those men are. Some day when we are all free, Black and White, we will do what is natural–we will recreate north America as the multi-racial, multi-ethnic, multi-colored place it should have been all along. We will someday evolve to the advanced state that Cuba has attained. Now, ain’t THAT a blip: Cuba is way ahead of us here in America. Bay of Pigs my ass. Another reason among so many, to admire Fidel. Viva Fidel, Viva el amor, viva mi amante Perri, y viva el amor de todas las mujeres.
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Great post abagond, i read this post late, therefore everything i would have said, has already been said.
I agree, like others about Jennifer Aniston, she’s like a generic store brand box of cereal, opposed to a Post or Kellogg’s brand box of cereal.
I too, like 99.9% of black men and woman in America, was brainwashed into feeling insecure about our blackness and in turn, felt whiteness was Superior.
I found myself, mesmerized by white beauty at a young age, then as a got older, i educated myself and discovered, blue beauty of blackness.
Now i am not ashamed of myself or saying out loud, that, “i prefer black women” and “i find black women, beautiful.” Some black men and women, haven’t found themselves yet, this is why i am not angry with my black brothas and sistas, that hate themselves and worship, white friends, white boyfriends, white girlfriends and white bosses.
They’ll have to weather the storm, thinking they are accepted by white society.
when their white masters, turn their backs on them, then their eyes will be opened to their true nature, then they will seek out, who they really are and begin to embrace themselves but not until their white masters, reject them.
Black people in America are content with rejecting their own culture, people and blackness for white culture and whiteness, just as long as they appease their white masters.
The result is the sickness of self hate, worshiping of a race of people that hate you, yet black still feel a need to be friends with white people, marry white people, have children with white people, some out of spite for black people.
Its going to get worse for us black people, we need blogs like this to spread the word to as many, self hating and lost black people as possible.
I was at a local Boston market earlier today, getting some supper.
There was a black woman and a white man, that was obviously together. She was tall and thin, he was short and fat and wasn’t attractive at all.
She looked so ashamed and self conciseness, when i happened to look in her direction, he looked like he was scared to even look in my direction.
The way they both acted, says to me that they are not even comfortable with each other. I could have cared less, i wasn’t even looking directly at them.
Look at this video, watch how the black girl, looks at the white girl, with such fascination.
The black girl has went as far as to mimic the white girls accent, just so she can be as much like her as possible.
I swear, if i didn’t know any better, I’d they they both munched each others, carpets, the way the black girl is looking at her.
Its no surprise that the black girl is engaged to a white man…
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@ peanut
Well said. We do need to embrace our beauty because nobody else will. I feel like a lot are waiting on white people to say you know we were wrong yall really are beautiful. That is not happening and the only time white people will say black is beautiful or something like that is when they have a biracial or adopted black child. A lot of this self hate is on us its on our upbringing. A lot of us have been told our natural hair needs to be tamed or as I was told needs something in it. I’m transitioning to natural now and am so happy and glad I see more black women embracing their original selves and going natural.
I’m not a lesbian either but when I see a picture of a beautiful natural woman in all her glory I just melt and feel like WOW she is amazing I want to be that. The sad thing is a lot of us have that reaction when we see black women who are natural and beautiful, we think well I wouldn’t look like that. And feel like we have to have all this fake stuff added to our bodies and hair. A lot of us think we will look like florida evans if we go natural rofl I know I thought that http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7ppx4GpJv1qce4odo1_500.png
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@ sondis
I wonder if that woman made that vid because those are things her white friend says. If she did make that vid about her white friend I am surprised they are still friends or maybe her friend is clueless.
I love boston markets cornbread lol. A lot of interracial couples look like they ashamed or embarrassed. Imo if you love someone then you should do so unapologetically and if someone says something then put them in their place. Many are too afraid or don’t really care. That couple you saw probably felt like oh sheit a black man in here he probably going to say something or she probably felt like oh he gonna think i’m a sell out. I see people like this all the time where I live who are self conscious and will either look at you crazy or not make eye contact. I feel like if it is love then you should stand up when you need to and not feel like you have to apologize for loving someone. And I notice when a white person is dating a black person a lot of times they will be giving other black people an evil look like you better stay away, its like they so insecure they think every black person is going to want their partner just because they black smh.
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@ mstoogood4yall:
lmfao.. yanno? please…i don’t want her. ^_^
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Lol I know you didn’t but you know what i’m talking about they just think O my gosh my partner is black and that other person is black oh my goodness they are going to try to take my man/ woman. ITs like they think our only requirement is that the other person be black and have a penis/vag. Its sick. Its like they feel insecure and left out when another black person walk by their black partner. they are ike omg they have so much in common {being black} now I feel left out.
I was at the mall a couple years ago with my mom and brother. I was walking and stopped to let this black man and white woman walk by and she looked at me with this evil look and held on to his arm as tight as a blood pressure cuff lol. I just looked away. I was thinking first of all bich i’m too young for him[was 16 ] and second I don’t want him. I can’t stand the insecure women. If your man is going to cheat then damit he gone cheat.
This is why I say even if a white person is dating, screwing, or married to a black person they still have stereotypes about black people. They still assume their black partner is the mandingo or jezebel stereotype,hence the reason they feel the need to steer their partner away from other black people or give black people the evil eye.
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@Peanut
I’ve never in my life heard a man admit or say that before. I had one guy say that he didn’t like really hard stomachs on women and liked the feeling of a “soft stomach,” but not a gut, just soft. That is the closest I’ve ever heard a man come to saying he likes that on a woman.
I admit it and it may sound strange to others who embrace that a flat, hard stomach is “more attractive”. But, I ADORE a soft belly. I like a little chub here and a pooch there. I think it’s cute, beautiful and sexy. I dunno why, but I’m attracted to that.
I especially love it when thick black women show off their bellies. To me it’s a bold message to the world that a sexy belly doesn’t have to be flat.
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I’m going to ask. This question is for other black women who are with black men. I’ve noticed there are some white women who will get weird and “catty” when they interact with a random black couple who displays even a little affection. My husband has a tendency of reaching out and holding my hand, sometimes even when driving. The latest occurrence was at a drive-thru. I watched as her eyes landed on him, me then our locked hands and her smile faded fast and her whole demeanor changed (she was laughing with someone about something before we pulled up) . I don’t get that from other black women, or any other group for that matter. I would appreciate the chiming in of a larger audience, anybody else getting this?
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Sondis,
It’s bizarre that whiteness is the default for beauty to the point where any white person is seen as attractive, hence Jennifer Aniston up there and loads of average and down-right ugly white celebrites who are applauded as “being sexy” by the supermodel industry and white celebrity magazines.
In my area I’ve seen brothas with less-than-attractive white females. I always ask myself, why? What does he see in her? Does he truly love her for the person she is, or is this about color? If it is, how so?
Let’s face it. In a racist society whoever you date matters if they are of a different color or ethnicity, not so much as who that person is. If so, it is not love they have, especially when one of them has little respect for him/herself.
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@ Kushite Prince and @ Peanut
No problem Kushite Prince, glad you like the links. There are so many great artistic, stylish pics of Black men and women, and I love the fact that nearly all pics of Black women have natural hair, or sometimes, even bald,
Peanut, you should check these links too, since you have expressed how you learned later on in life to fully appreciate the beauty of Black women (I don’t mean to say that you thought Black women were/are ugly if you see what I mean).
Looking at these these pics everyday on these Tumblrs reminds me that my people are not “ugly” or look like “monkeys” or whatever. We can also be elegant, graceful, beautiful, mysterious etc. it’s not just Europeans who have a monopoly on those qualities. However, I truly find many people of every race beautiful and don’t think that Europeans alone have a monopoly on beauty.
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@ Peanut,
I’ll post the links on here again:
http://www.whenblackwasinvogue.tumblr.com
http://www.shadesofblackness.tumblr.com
http://www.allbeautifulblackgirls.tumblr.com
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@truthbetold I don’t have the slightest problem with any man’s preferences for a wife or girlfriend/sexual partner. It’s nobody’s business but his and I think those who are uncomfortable with others’ sexual preferences have insecurities of their own.
It seems like a uniquely American thing to have this preoccupation with race in terms of relationships. In my own family I’m married to a Vietnamese Australian man, one of my sisters is married to a Chinese Singaporean and my brother is dating an Indian Australian. While we’re ‘white’ (I really hate that descriptor) our great grandmother on Mum’s side was from India. I was six when she died and still have some very lovely memories of her. In any event, ours is an absolutely normal multicultural family in Australia or Canada and completely uncontroversial.
I don’t meant to trivialise your feelings but I really think that some of your genuinely negative experiences with ‘white’ women may have influenced the way that you saw some quite innocent interactions. I doubt there are many women who would put so much time and effort into trying to make others miserable, unless they’re sociopaths – and I’m sorry but I don’t think that most ‘white’ women are.
@abagond also doesn’t bother me at all that you and others on this blog find ‘white’ women ugly and African American women gorgeous. I do, however, dislike the misogynistic tone that some of the discussion has taken.
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yeah, i’ve said it before, but dark chocolate complexion, for me, please, shorter than me is better, but now i have dated one or two taller than me (by a couple inches, anyway), and I got over that inhibition, but still, i like ‘fun size’ (I’m considered ‘short’), i really like natural hair (but all the girls wear a fake ponytail or wig these days, what is that all about?), or if she has it brushed back in a real ponytail, that is great, just awesome, or braids, and she has to be nice, and should have a job, and that’s about it for me.
Actually attributes like not being a hoodrat and being an employed worker are taking precedence over being super beautiful, but i guess my goals have changed as well, ie i don’t need to just get laid every night, and i am trying to sort of get a stability of some type in my life at this time.
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@adeen there is probably some shy kid who has his eye on you and can’t say anything about it because he’s too scared… not saying what race he would be, but it happens a lot…
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@Sondis, that video you posted is by vlogger Chescaleigh or Chescalocs entitled S**t white girls say to Black girls….in no way does she want to be white. She–Chescaleigh– made a parody about the things white women are known to say to Black women that are entirely racist and misinformed. In this society, white women’s aggressions towards Black women usually get overlooked. Many Black people are not in denial about the overt racism from white men–but white women have played the card they are in this together with Black people, specifically Black men.
I think Franchesca’s video was the first time that a Black woman exposed white women’s treatment of Black women and virtually no backlash came from it. In fact, Anderson Cooper and the white woman host of The Stream seemed to be very much in support of her narrative and Black men who are with white women did not come out of some crazy bag about “well it’s because Black women are jealous”. I think people took her serious because she is a young Black woman with locs (her own hair), articulate, and qualified.
I have been around white girls off and on my whole life and in general they do have a tendency to say those things. It seemed to only get worse the older i got. Not all white women that i have known, but most of them. It really comes from something that they understand about Black women that we do not.
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@ wordynerdygirl
I’d like to say something to you and all the whites that read this blog:
There is no such thing as an “innocent interaction” in the system of white supremacy. All interactions between the European and the African are rooted in hostility, fear and subjugation. The system, which we are all apart of, like it or not, was created so whites are at the top and blacks are on the bottom.
PERIOD.
Therefore, you are not innocent. Neither is Heather, Skippy, Trey or Cole.
I’ve never met one, not one, single white person, no matter what they claim, that truly wishes to see this bastardly hellhole of a system become equal. NEVER. If they do claim their desire for “equality” they are lying.
Whites cannot function in ANY society where blacks are equal to them. Why? Because they know that they cannot compete with us on any level where there is equal footing. They’ve known that for 6,000 years. Why do you think they spend TRILLIONS of dollars on propaganda, putting drugs and guns into our neighbourhoods and building Planned Parenthood? The only way for them to keep their status quo is to subjugate others. And with that subjugation comes deceit, trickery and psychological violence.
This false pretext of “colourblindness” is hogwash. Whites are scared to death of admitting that their imposed colour, that they created for personal gain, is now an admittance of guilt and worldwide genocide. They now recognize that they are the enemy to the planet. That’s why they’ll tap dance around their “whiteness” and call themselves Irish with 1/4 Cherokee Indian and a dash of Italian. Like they’re making a effing pot of soup!
I effing tired of the bullshit and you know what? So is Mother Nature.
Good luck.
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Gen
To answer your question:
Simply put, black love makes white people afraid and uncomfortable. They are accustomed to both parties, males and females, doting on them. When you openly show affection for your black mate, it sends a signal to them that you are not interested in them in the slightest and their white ego cannot accept that.
So animosity and fear is what you see.
Also, many white females are told that black males desire them. So when they see a black man doting on his black woman, it hurts their feelings.
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Cheschaleigh is hilarious. I wonder when white people see this do they understand how foolish they are at times. To me she is a mirror to hold up to see how foolish they look and sound. Chescaleigh is just a very funny and clever young woman that’s needed in the discourse of race relations.
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Well Gen
welcome to the so called post racial society. I call bs because there is no way this stuff is gone from the 50’s. During jim crow whites didn’t allow black couples to show affection toward each other in public. So what you experienced is a little diluted form of what our grandparents went through. Its the same thing just toned down a bit. A lot of white women think every black man wants them,so when they see a black man with a black woman they know they were just proven wrong.
It is the reason they take their dumb arse on black youtube channels promoting black love and say it is racist and the reason why when I call them out on their bs they stay silent.They just like seeing black people in dysfunction and when they see us making it and not feeding into the stereotypes they get mad.Just go to any youtube vid degrading black people and they are either not saying anything or they are agreeing with it, now go to a vid promoting black love and they will be on there calling it racist. They are Bi POLAR one minute they tell us to get our sheit together then when we try they get jealous and try to destroy our success[black wallstreet] They have the same feelings they had back then just now they try to hide it but I still pick up on it.
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@ Sondis, Check Chescaleigh’s videos. She’s very funny.
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@truthtobetold
“Growing up around white people has given me a great perspective on them, especially their women. Yurugu’s daughter has been fluffed up to be the pinnacle of “womanhood” ever since the creation of whiteness. This of course, was necessary to debase the Original Earth Mother.
That is why no matter how flawed and evil she is, she is given the benefit of the doubt, made to seem innocent of her doings and coddled for her imperfections.
It has been my observation that black males who desire her wish to obtain a status, if only in his mind, that he feels will bring him closer to whiteness. White females are, quite simply, the most cunning, brutal, greedy, money-hungry, huntresses that ever lived. They will do whatever it takes to keep their status quo.
Black men who fall for this trickery are brainwashed by society’s propaganda. The white female has absolutely nothing to offer any black man in terms of spirituality for she is missing the other half of herself. Having only the male principle , she is best suited for her white counterpart where they can compete relentlessly for power and money.
Black men who are drawn to Yurugu’s daughter as being lead down a dangerous and slippery slope. She is a pawn for white supremacy and her father will use her as the last resort to disable the black family.
HIS-Story never lies. And make no mistake…absolutely nothing as changed. White females are more dangerous and slippery than white males. It is she that gave birth to him. Groomed him and taught him everything that he knows to function in this society where he earns everything for doing nothing. The black man that seeks the white woman will end up in a very precarious situation. But, of course, that’s for him to discover.
As for all black men “wanting” this pale-skinned being…?
LOL!”
I’m proud to say that I’ve got black men in my family that would rather be celibate for eternity than to touch this being”.
———————————————————————————————–
Looked in an mirror recently, @Truthtobetold?
Why you put evil statements on white women, many of those women marry for love , not all are rich or want be rich my dear!
Any beautiful women ( no matter the color of skin) are capable to be more dangerous and slippery than males of any color.
Sorry, darling, men fall easy because they’re heterosexual males!
In Detroit I see one men doing the same to another male.
If you’re so upset because has been abandoned by your lover\boyfriend by an white woman, I’m sorry, I can only say to you hurry up, do an shopping therapy ( works for women of any color) e and go to another man.
Stop complaining and go ahead!!!!
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@ Kiwi:
The only way a white person can mock a black person or Asian person, while said race of person is present, is if the black or Asian person has taken on, white image/ ideology/ culture.
It seems as though, white people take advantage of these “friendships” so they can opening mock under the guise of, “you’re not like those other blacks” so its alright.
White people always put black people to the test, see how much they can get away with it, until you put them in check.
@ Mary Burrel:
“Cheschaleigh is hilarious. I wonder when white people see this do they understand how foolish they are at times.”
Nope, white people got offended from the video she made, they called it racist, ( which has become their favorite word to use against black people, how ironic. )
They can’t take it but they constantly dish it out, even in a humorous way.
I will admit that whites can’t and shouldn’t make fun of the black people, the way black people can make fun of them, the dynamic of oppressors and oppressed, dictates that. It just will never been seen the same way and rightfully so.
White people just can’t seem to grasp this concept, “why can’t a white comedian say what Chris rock says about white people?
why can he call us cracker and a white comedian, can’t call black people, the “N” word?
anyone remember the white comedian from friends, Michael Richards? He played the character, “Kramer” on the TV show friends.
“During a November 17, 2006 performance at the Laugh Factory in West Hollywood, California Richards shouted a racially charged response to black hecklers in the audience, shouting “He’s a ni**er!” several times and referring to lynching.
Kyle Doss, a member of the group Richards addressed, said they had arrived in the middle of the performance, adding, “I guess we were being a little loud, because there was 20 of us ordering drinks. And Richards said, ‘Look at the stupid Mexicans and blacks being loud up there.’ And, then, after a while, I told him, my friend doesn’t think you’re funny,” which triggered Richards’ outburst.”
He is a perfect example of how a white person, can’t and shouldn’t be allowed to be racist in public and it being seen as, “funny”.
@Brothawolf:
“In my area I’ve seen brothas with less-than-attractive white females. I always ask myself, why? What does he see in her? Does he truly love her for the person she is, or is this about color? If it is, how so? ”
Your assessment is correct, its about color. I see it here too in Connecticut, like at my trip to Boston Market, slim, fairly attractive black woman with short, fat and ugly white guy.
You’ll always see, attractive black men and women with unattractive white men and women.
We as black people, get the worst of them, they as white people get the best of us.
@ phoebeprunelle:
“in no way does she want to be white.”
Chescaleigh may or may not want to be white but from what I’ve learned about white people, they almost always have just one, “black friend”, also their black “friend” is almost always a mirror image of white culture and i don’t mean, “speaking perfect grammar” or the absents of “Ebonics”, ( this is for you white people that think, these type of black people, are acting white )
The black, “friend” normally doesn’t hang out with other black friends that do speak Ebonics and are still, articulate.
This is called, “the black Negro limitation” black people that sell out, are not allowed to have black friends from the hood and still be a white person’s best “friend”.
I am willing to wager, that this black girl, has no black best friend and that this white girl in the video, has no other, best black friend.
what does this say about us as black people?
when we get an education, money and a sense of success, we automatically reject our own people and side with the enemy, trying to distance ourselves from anyone black, that may jeopardize our white club, membership.
I wouldn’t have suspected this black woman as being a sell out, if it wasn’t for the fact that not only does she have a best white “friend” but she’s even engage to a white man. Those two things, points to this black woman, wanting to distance herself from her blackness.
@ truthbetold:
I have to agree with you there. white men and women, are very uncomfortable with black love.
why do you think they always pair, white men up with black women and black men with every other race of women, accept black women in holly wood?
They never show black love, only interracial love with their race.
@wordynerdygirl:
“@abagond also doesn’t bother me at all that you and others on this blog find ‘white’ women ugly and African American women gorgeous. I do, however, dislike the misogynistic tone that some of the discussion has taken.”
You’re projecting and twisting his words, so you can discredit this post as being, anti-white beauty.
abagond and everyone on the blog, hasn’t said white women are ulgy.
what abagon and everyone are simply saying is white media has always, praised average looking white women to be, beautiful.
I remeber seeing glenith paltrow in the iron man and was like…are you serious? They couldn’t cast anyone else, besides her?
I wouldn’t call her ugly but sheesh, she has no shape or curves, being skinny as a tooth pick and looks soooooooo average.
The same with the white women in the batman and spider man movies, both of those white women are sooooo average!
Did anyone see the aliens vs predator movie with Sanaa Lathan? OMG, i was drooling the whole time, you saw a beautiful black woman with curves the whole time!
Her character was so true to life in that, she was scared and helpless, she needed the predator to protect her. ( sarcasm: yeah, most black women fit that stereotype )
Where as all the other alien movies, a skinny white woman, that is not scared of a alien and she is tough as nails, ( yeah, big contrast to how actually white women are and how black women are in real life ).
@Peanut:
“maybe they were just coworkers or random people buying food”
They were random people, buying food. where did i not make that clear?
Has nothing to do with what i said, my comments are referring to their, behavior in my presents, not about their purpose for being there or if they were co-workers or not.
I also pointed out they were, “obviously a couple” being the way they were interacting with each other.
@truthbetold:
“’d like to say something to you and all the whites that read this blog:
There is no such thing as an “innocent interaction” in the system of white supremacy. All interactions between the European and the African are rooted in hostility, fear and subjugation. The system, which we are all apart of, like it or not, was created so whites are at the top and blacks are on the bottom.
PERIOD.”
Amen, Sista!
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@ Truthbetold, Mstoogood4yall and Peanut
I get the sinking feeling that’s what it was, hubby and I talked about it, he’s noticed it too, being uncomfortable with black love. It’s not that she got serious, she got an attitude. I’ve noticed this when meeting the hubby at grocery store checkouts, in a department store etc. I’ll come by and he’s having some generic “how do you do” conversation with a random smiling white woman, soon as I show up and he says something like “Baby, did you find what you need?”, smiling is over and she gets frigid. The contempt is veiled but I pick up on that now because of some experiences I had with a couple women I personally knew.
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@Peanut, that’s very true, have you watched the new James Bonds movie “Skyfall”, naomie Harris was in it and her hair was short and all over the place. When I decided to search her name up on google I saw that she was a really beautiful women (u would never know from watching the movie) but whenever they put her in a movie they always mess up her hair. For reasons I do not know, she looked like a scary hobo in some of her past movies! Even when I say her take pictures with the other main actress in the movie, she always wears her hair short…like she has to lower her beauty when she’s around her. I’m not making up, you can go on google herself. And btw she was hardly in the movie, they got rid of her in the first 10 minutes
because she got in trouble, she shows up again twice and then at the end.
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Actually no she was in the movie a lot, nvm I was thinking of smth else lol
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I never said white women are ugly. On this very blog I have written posts praising the beauty of Megan Fox, Kim Kardasian, Elizabeth Taylor, Maria Shriver, Sophia Loren and I think Marilyn Monroe. Sooner or later I will probably do posts on Audrey Hepburn, Lauren Bacall, Monica Vitti, Angelina Jolie and Sigourney Weaver.
To me these are beautiful white women. Well, except maybe Kim K who was very beautiful but now has overdone it on the plastic surgery.
On the other hand I think Jennifer Anniston, Gwyneth Paltrow, Julia Roberts and most of the white women pushed by Hollywood since the 1960s are so-so at best. None of them can hold a candle to, say, Angela Bassett, Sanaa Lathan, Kerry Washington or Gabrielle Union. Either they have very good publicists or white people see something in them I do not. Maybe a little of both.
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@Peanut bw/bm don’t bother me either, it’s nice to see a couple that makes it with what we all have to go throu4441gh… in general, haters are jealous i think that makes sense as a core theorem
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@ Ellis
Thanks for the links!
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@ abagond
No problem. 🙂
@mstoogoddforyall
“It is the reason they take their dumb arse on black youtube channels promoting black love and say it is racist and the reason why when I call them out on their bs they stay silent.They just like seeing black people in dysfunction and when they see us making it and not feeding into the stereotypes they get mad.Just go to any youtube vid degrading black people and they are either not saying anything or they are agreeing with it, now go to a vid promoting black love and they will be on there calling it racist.They are Bi POLAR one minute they tell us to get our sheit together then when we try they get jealous and try to destroy our success[black wallstreet] They have the same feelings they had back then just now they try to hide it but I still pick up on it.”
I co-sign, especially this part as I have observed this behaviour too:
“They are Bi POLAR one minute they tell us to get our sheit together then when we try they get jealous and try to destroy our success[black wallstreet] They have the same feelings they had back then just now they try to hide it but I still pick up on it.”
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@Peanut
You wrote,
“Just like why they always portray Black couples as dysfunctional on TV and why they can hardly ever show a Black love scene that isn’t degrading or rape in mainstream movies…and they always have to show the interracial couple so deeply in love yada yada and pushing Black women with white men now too…”
By the way Peanut, I have been on your website Blacknotwhitedippedinchocolate and read posts about your experiences in Brazil. Have you ever seen the Brazilian movie Orfeu Negro (Black Orpheus)? The full movie is on Youtube with English subtitles, the cast is 99% Black and is a tragically beautiful romantic love story between a Black man and a Black woman. It’s a beautiful film.
@abagond,
You should check out Orfeu Negro (Black Orpheus) too. 🙂
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Black love is a beautiful thing. I love how Barack Obama loves Michelle like his queen. In slavery the black family was torn apart. I think it rankles white people to see a successful and loving black family. Certain white women get upset seeing a black man love his black woman. Because they think all black men lust and desire them. That is just my personal opinion.
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@ Ellis. Thanks for recommending Black Orpheus. I always saw that title didn’t know what it was about. Will check it out.
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@ peanut
Yea I noticed that too. It seems even though whites are always trying to paint us as the bad guys we never do half the ish they do. For example. When they said kids were off limits to attacks during the presidential election, what did they do? attack sasha and malia. When a black man voices his opinion about loving black women without putting other races of women down what do they do? Attack him if they aren’t on top always they freak the fk out. I especially can’t stand the white feminists and the dumb black women who align themselves with them smh. They don’t give a dam about us, where the hell were they when quvenzhane wallis was called the c word. But they made sure they were out protesting when rush Limbaugh called that woman a sl@t.
Of course they will be silent when black women are attacked if they uplift us they know we will surpass them. So they have to tear us down to keep themselves on their pedestal I say keep that pedestal let me get my throne. they only run to us to get their organization off the ground and use the sellouts to say hey their struggle is like ours so support their cause. Charles ramsey was right you know something is wrong when a white girl runs to a black person. They either want something or are in serious trouble.
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The thing is white women were put on a pedestal by white men. Notice that they are the standard of beauty for women but for men it is black men? White men are willing to step aside and let another man be viewed as more masculine and manly just as long as black men are portrayed as mandingos, bad fathers, husbands,and thugs. And they are portrayed as good husbands, fathers, and ceos. They are ok with moving to the side just as long as their women are still on top. They also put everyone into a box and stereotype us all. Its is the reason why they call black men and women masculine, they don’t care ,and label us with the same characteristics even though we are different genders. They do the same with Asians, Asian men and women are both viewed as feminine and submissive, But with white people they view themselves as different and have different categories for themselves and separate characteristics for each gender. White women are seen as beautiful and white men are seen as hot. white women are seen as feminine and white men are seen as great providers.
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@ Peanut
Great Eriq LaSalle quote. Thanks.
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@Peanut You’re also absolutely right in saying that the (Western) media is very unrepresentative of any kind of beauty other than Caucasian. There are gorgeous women of every race and it’s very unfair and quite ridiculous that the entertainment industry doesn’t reflect this.
I don’t agree, however, that ‘white’ feminists never call out racism/misogyny against women of other racial backgrounds. I’m guessing this is a bit of a dig at my post and I can truthfully say that I try whenever possible call out racist and sexist behaviour when I see it. I’ve done so not only on the internet (doesn’t take much to be a keyboard warrior) but in the workplace. I’m also involved in social justice and advocacy groups. Again, this is not something that deserves credit as every woman and man should do so as a matter of course.
What I was objecting to in my response was not that abagond or any other guy for that matter prefers women of a certain race. What got me a bit upset is the way that a couple of posters (instead of simply talking about their preferences etc) sought to typify all white women in a very misogynistic and unhelpful way.
I think you’re not looking hard enough if you’re suggesting that ‘white’ women are not criticised by ‘white’ men. Head to just about any male centred blog or forum and you’ll see the hatred that many men direct toward all women, particularly women who dare to reject their advances (must be lesbians!) or that are successful in the workplace (must be using their sexuality to get there!)
Personally, I hope that all women can eventually be seen as more than the sum of their (physical) parts. I dislike the way that women’s faces/bodies etc are continually critiqued as though we’re mix and match dolls. You rarely, if ever, hear men’s physical attributes described in such an objectifying manner.
I don’t see why I shouldn’t be able to say this. I’m not spouting horrible stereotypes or abusing anybody, just offering my perspective. If abagond thinks that I am being offensive or that my contributions aren’t valid, that’s also his prerogative and I will respect any recommendation/direction from him to cease posting on or reading this blog.
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Oh, and @abagond I do apologise for suggesting that you’ve said anywhere on this blog that women of any background are ugly. From the links you’ve provided above this clearly isn’t the case.
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I agree that healthy black love between a man and a woman makes white people uncomfortable.
Not only does it invalidate their beauty hierarchy but it makes it plain that black people have an inner life, have feelings, are not animals in human form but something far more.
Eriq LaSalle’s love life on “E.R.” was textbook. Even Gloria Reuben was not allowed a happy black love life – far from it (her unfaithful husband gave her Aids).
But even that was “progress” because most American television shows would not have given them any love story at all.
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@ Ellis
I saw it too. I did a post in it. Google “black Orpheus Abagond”.
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@peanut I had to look up the Don Imus incident as I wasn’t sure what you were referring to. I remembered as soon as I googled – it was a fairly big story here too.
I agree, the racist component of his remark made it far more offensive than a sexist remark alone. It should have received a lot of attention from feminists than it appears to have and the focus should have been on his hateful racism. I was also shocked from the little snapshot that I read that there wasn’t more a movement to get him permanently off air – why didn’t Senator Kerry support a lifetime ban??
I’m really determined to understand more about black feminism – I’ll start with the two books you mentioned, thanks for the suggestions. I’ve read some of Angela Davis’ fantastic work – I see that she has a couple of chapters in ‘Still Brave’.
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a lot *more attention – sorry for the typos. I’m multi-tasking between reading this very interesting blog and writing a discussion paper!
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abagond
I agree that healthy black love between a man and a woman makes white people uncomfortable.
Likely a distinct minority. The reason you don’t see many serious Black couples in film (with the exception of secondary characters such as in Jerry McGuire) is that Hollywood produces think that the audience would be limited to Blacks. So they seem to frequently pair Black men with Latina women which they feel will have broader demographic appeal. (Because they believe Black men and White women as a couple would be offensive to Black women..they seem to make an exception for Will Smith and Dwayne Johnson) It’s not a matter of discomfort I believe, it’s a matter of disinterest. Not substantially better, I know.
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To Peanut:
I disagree. They pair Black men with Latina women because they fear it will offend white men, Black women aren’t even a big enough demographic to them and since when have they cared about offending Black women.
Then why not just pair them with Black women…? Or no women at all? (Such as with Wesley Snipes in Demolition man and Blade..) Supposedly these decisions were based upon polls.. not supposition. Eva Mendes (who’s starred opposite what.. 8 different black guys..) isn’t that far away from being considered white. (She looks white to me, at least in a broader sense as I have relatives with her complexion..) I guarantee you that the majority of white guys in this country would date her if given the option.
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To Peanut:
Black women aren’t even a big enough demographic to them and since when have they cared about offending Black women.
I see your logic about black women.. and I did read that somewhere and was trying to find a link.. but some other articles lead me to believe that the producers are avoiding both black male/ white women and black female / white men because they believe they could potentially offend either whites or blacks, so yeah..more eyeballs more dollars.
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Tyler perry’s show the haves and have nots looks like he copied off of scandal. Why can’t they show that beautiful dark skinned woman with a black male love interest. No with dark skinned actresses they bring them out either for slave movies, to play the mammy and not have a love interest, or play the jezebel and sleep with a rich old white man smh. Just the trailer alone annoys me I see a lot of stereotypes in it. Like the poor are the black people and the beautiful black woman is too beautiful for a black man so they have her with a white man, an old ugly angry white man at that. I get even more pissed when it is other black people that do this sheit. Its one thing for whites to do it but another black person should know better. That’s right most of the black people in hollyweird have sold out so they just as bad.
BURN HOLLYWOOD BURN
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Is it true that black guys usually like ass more than tits? Or just you? Cus I’ve noticed other black dudes tell me the same thing.
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I wanted to piggyback on Peanut’s observation of black people not attracted to white people when asked in a media setting. What really irks me is when an interviewer asks a black star if they would date a white person but the question is never asked of white stars. For example, an interviewer ( I think Chelsea Handler asked the rapper Common this and also it was asked of one of the Atlanta housewives, but I have rarely heard an interviewer asking a single white star would they date a black person, they usually ask what type of person they are attracted to).
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@ peanut
Yeah I won’t be watching that thing tonight. Its a shame that some of us will watch garbage and complain about,i’m like change the channel then vote with your dollar and your remote lol. I see black women talking about how basketball wives shows stereotpes of us being loud,ghetto, masculine, etc but they still watch it, how can people be like I can’t stand this show it makes me sick, girl pass the popcorn. smh
@DeeDee
yes they do that. I think they ask black entertainers if they would date a white person to test them. It is the same reason why they ask a black person what they think when something happens like the boston bombing or sandy hook. They are testing us to see if we are still whitewashed and under their spell. They want to see if we still care about them and want their approval and want them as a mat. If a lot of us said no they would start to be more paranoid and thinking we are anti white and plotting against them [nat turner fear]. Its funny to me how in movies and shows they show the black person as being after them when in real life they are the ones that approach us for dates and flings. Projection is their m.o lol
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Abagond, where the heck did you get that idea that “white women” ARE the way you describe “them” (millions and millions of women) (same for the even more numerous “black women”):
Most of those you see in the media (or rather the media chooses to show you) are NOT. They are brown-haired women who changed their hair color. Do they also have a problem with their brownness ?
Intellectually ? According to which “intellectual” trend ? Did I miss something ?
hmmm, so blond women automatically have big breasts ? (haven’t you watched to much “white” porn ?)
And don’t have big bottoms ??
And they’re all thin !!!
I had never heard of “thick” women. But here we go. So no “white” and/or blond woman in this planet is fat or thick ? They are all thin and flat… LOL
And all “black women” are “cut” the same ?
Yeah right.
Oh, she “gave” them ? Or maybe the trend and stupid stereotypes about what a “white” woman should look like changed…
Don’t you think this is *a little bit* stereotypical ?
Maybe it’s because I am a real blond-haired woman with blue-green-grey eyes, a nice big bottom in the right place and middle sized lips. And I have big breasts (which some of my so-called “white” and blond friends would have liked to have but I didn’t like them because I could never find the right combination of bikinis, which is a sign that big breasts are not *so* frequent in the big ugly white world) that I find all this very funny. And so surreal.
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America really has a problem with superficiality.
Superficiality of “white” people, it’s all over the place. That’s all you get. No hair (NO hair please), no odor, make-up, cover your skin, plastic your nails, look all the same, please…
As for “black women”, there are the usual stereotypes and unfortunately, “black” men don’t have a much better “approach” when they try to change the vision people have.
In “Dark Girls”, the documentary, which I saw in a première a few months ago, and I and husband were expecting to get a good and strong analysis of what dark-skinned women have to go through in the US, the only -only- talk was about appearance, superficiality, “beauty”. Nothing about intelligence, interests, intellectual achievements… Very very strange on the part of the directors, who were on stage at the end.
The most shocking part for me and my husband was the never-analyzed part where some “black” guys talked about “black” women as “ripe fruit”, in opposition to “white” women (who are apparently never ripe, they must be acid and bitter to the tongue, somehow).
Frankly, a woman who likes to be likened to a “ripe fruit” (just because her skin is dark ?) needs to think a little, imho. But that’s just my humble opinion.
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@ Cornlia
1. I was talking about black and white women in general, not every single one.
2. I was talking more about the white beauty standard with Hollywood actresses as best cases of it. Presumably most white women would fall well short of it.
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Got it Abagond.
But is there such a thing as people “in general” ? Are we not risking falling in the “universal” trap here ?
Still made me smile 😉
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“cough” “cough”
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Because, i was eating and got a chicken bone, caught in my throat. -_-
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Sondis rofl why you coughing on here can’t you see this is a serious discussion, next time get some of that kfc boneless nasty chicken then you won’t choke on another chicken bone ever again lol.
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@sondis &mstoogood4yall, Very funny.
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@ mstoogood4yall,Mary burrel:
lmfao.. I didn’t know, eating chicken could be a dangerous, proposition. @ : o O ) >
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^ sondis you should know better than to cough or sneeze when a woman is ranting, im very disappointed in you smh lol
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I almost choked on some Chinese beef and broccoli once, now I make sure I chew thoroughly and then swallow. never had a bone caught in my throat I make sure I chew those very well be for ingesting.
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@mstoogood4yall:
well…i am only but a man, i kneel before thee and beg forgiveness. @ : o l ) >
@ Peanut:
Well, i did thrust my pelvic area in a sexual manner but that didn’t help, i continued to choke, until i beat my chest in an attempt to work the chick bone, through. It worked, eventually. @ : o D ) >
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@ Peanut
Not sure what became of that comment. Probably in the spam filter.
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lol @ peanut
Thanks for the tip, I’ll be sure to do that,next time. ^_^
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^ you are forgiven, now arise sir sondis and don’t make that mistake again or I shall banish thee for eternity.
Aw yes the pelvic thrust does not work next time try the harlem shake it Is more effective at dislodging the food. or you could try bending over a chair and shakin what your momma gave ya that works too, or is it that you dry hump the chair I forget which it is.
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@ mstoogood4yall:
wtf? lol You know all the, food dislodging moves! I can learn a thing or two from you. ^_^
I usually do either of these dances, when I’m choking,
The tootsie roll, electric slide or The cha cha slide. See video below…
http://youtu.be/zXJVQHz0UZU <–I'm doing this dance right now as you're watching this video.
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Well, i’m old so when the DJ said to take it down to da flo and asked how low could i go, i went to da flo but when he said to take it to da top, til i just can’t stop, i couldn’t take it to da top , because my back was hurting…. @ : o x ) >
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@ peanut
Aw. since we homegirls can you stop callin me mstoogoodall u can just say mstoogood or toogood idk the goodall part makes me think of jane goodall, ew that woman kinda creep me out always hanging with monkeys and ish. lol
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Sondis you are getting old, everybody know old men should not be doing these dances. just stick with doing the hustle rofl.
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Many excellent comments and a tribute to abagond and open dialogue as opposed to secrecy and lies.
My experiences and interpretations –
much of this is interrelated and interdependent – as for example as I write this I’m browsing a supposedly progressive website ,reading about Common Ideas About Sex That May Be Totally Wrong – guess what type of people are used as a couple,in fact I not seen one black,asian or any other type of people other than blonde white/albinic.
A direct relation to abagonds post on white default.
But this is about “abagond’s supposed secret desire for white women”
And having white/albinic people as the default example in virtually every expression of media I and you see if your a resident of america is not related.
What about my personal experience with this – well I I’ve learned that no I don’t have any “secret” desire ,what is “secret” is how the majority of albinic/white americans and europeans push this ,enforce this, kill for this.
BTW the other day I googled – what is the white percentage of the human population – The number that I got from wiki after a weird and unnecessary sideshow was 8.2 percent meaning the nonwhite majority is 91.8 percent of the world’s population – and I always thought Dr.frances Cress Welsing was exaggerating when she would keep repeating that the white population was a tiny tiny minority of the world’s population.
And homosexuality – example- remember MJ musical phenomena who originally was a heterosexual african american male who turned (was turned?) into a effeminate female looking (allegedly pedophile ) white male who had sex and successfully impregnated not one but two albinic-albino looking white females and was never seen to my knowledge with any black or african american female.
But again what about my specific experiences – all I can say (not) is that being constantly bombarded not just with media but physically only white/albinic people and having the females continuously and ruthlessly come at you as well as the homosexuals AND rarely having any interaction with african females
because one chooses to step outside of one’s segregated designated areas (ghetto) intellectually as well as physically
can be one of the most painful and challenging experiences I know of.
And a note about ugliness – ever been or thought you’ve been targeted by the ugliest albinic/white people,particular members of the opposite sex specifically for mating??
Why doesn’t abagond have a ugly list – you know – the ugliest females, the top ugly black males or females or the most ugly white males or females – you know ,according to just him??
Cause beauty is in the eye of the baby in the stroller right I mean white oops I meant might cause that’s how its decided correct?
Anyway this blog’s one of life’s treasures and that includes the commenters (an essential part) including the antagonistic as well as the friendly.
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To Peanut:
I wondered if they tested black women would they be racist against white men when we’re ovulating?
http://pss.sagepub.com/content/early/2011/06/02/0956797611410985
“Study 1, Black and White women with strong associations between the racial out-group and physical formidability displayed greater bias against out-group men as conception risk increased. ”
Looks like there had been a previous study using only white women but this study appears to have also used black women.
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To Abagond:
Over and over again people tell me – or assume – that I secretly desire white women..
Do you mean people who post here, people you meet in life, or the media in general..?
For the record I have never thought you had a secret desire for white women.
Pretty clear your biases are towards black women.
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Until quite recently women have been seen as property of men. White women belonged to white men. So a black man gaining a white woman is seen as gaining power, prestige and as having taken something from white men.
The beauty of white women has been politicized. Who doesn’t want more power?
This is the racists viewpoint of course. White women do not belong to white men and black women do not belong to black men. Women dont belong to anyone. Many people actually do marry for love and not political reasons.
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I can’t stand how they treat black women as if we are sex objects. I just saw a vid of beyonce being slapped on her arse by a white male at her concert. I saw the Braxton family values episode where one of the women got her arse grabbed by an Italian man. It is a dam shame that white men don’t know how to act around booty, they think it is their right to touch it. I don’t really like beyonce but it is disrespectful to be slapping a married woman’s arse. I wish jay z was there and would’ve kicked that guys arse. Reminds me of how during slavery white men were raping black women or making them be with other men even when they were married or in a relationship. It’s like even if we are already taken they treat us as if we are available and should accept this kind of behavior.
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@mstoogood4yall slapping any woman’s bottom is harassment and is utterly disrespectful. I think it’s more representative of sexism than racism though – I’ve seen women of all backgrounds treated like sex objects in the media. This new Danish show is a case in point: http://www.dailylife.com.au/news-and-views/dl-opinion/is-this-the-worst-tv-show-for-women-20130528-2n8me.html. Basically the premise is that a bunch of dirty old men sit around to scrutinise (and critique) women’s naked bodies as though they’re livestock.
At 31 I’m not haunting the nightclubs any more but I also remember having my bum (and worse) grabbed numerous times at clubs etc in my early twenties. I think this is a common experience for a lot of women – and it’s behaviour that no self respecting man should engage in.
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Peanut and all…
You know that reminds me of another study I read that explained that physically debilitating effects racism had on blacks, like PTSD type effects, which triggered, premature Type2 Diabetes, heart disease, hypertension, you name it.
And in the comment section…all these long-word using white people essentially trying to dissect the study, pull apart the premise, give alternative examples using biological, medical terminology…very few ppl who actually took the report as a step in explaining “scientifically” why Blk folks feel like they are constantly being attacked in this country and are beginning to show the battle scars from it!!
Basically NO EMPATHY. And these were individuals posting–and the ‘group’ message from whites was eerily similar– a collective: “So? It ain’t my fault. I have no personal hand in what plagues blacks…”
So if the white man’s OWN modern invention of ‘science’ as a way to explain away humanity and human experience as it relates to Blacks in this country and the GLOBE..then WHAT COULD WE POSSIBLY DO OR SAY TO THEM to make them “understand” their heinousness? They are not interested in any experiments that seeks to call their racist a$$es out!
This universal structure of WHITE privilege, beauty standards, white love, relationships as human and superior have to be ACTIVELY promoted and upheld 100% of the time for it to permeate the minds of adults and children. This tactic obviously works–look at the mindset of so many of our own ACROSS THE GLOBE!
Ask yourself why there are only 2 or 3 major media corporations that own 85% of American TV? Why the BBC and other UK channels are the only international ones you get automatically bundled with your cable package?
You’d be hard pressed to claim coincidence in any modern message using internet or TV that doesn’t come from independently owned digital sources.
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@ Peanut:
You said,
“as i said in another post white women can benefit from being sexually objectified in ways that Black women cannot. There is something called erotic capital and ww have the benefit of being seen as sexual objects, but they’re still allowed to have that job promotion or the acting jobs, get the modeling jobs in the men’s magazines, get the best jobs in the strip clubs where you don’t have to worry as much about being raped or stalked and make more money off of being sexually objectified. Read Siohban Brooks book if you haven’t already.”
One white woman comes to mind, after reading what you said about this, (Kim Kardashian )
She made a sex tape and got famous from it! Not acting, Not singing, not modeling but a sex tape!
You also said:
“Black women do not have that privilege. we get sexually objectified and receive no benefits from being sexually objectified in general. We have to deal with being female and Black and we deal with issues that neither Black men nor white women can relate to.”
One black woman comes to mind, here. ( Montana Fishburne ) Daughter of black Hollywood actor Lawrence Fishburne.
She made a sex tape and it barley made any controversy.
This is what Montana said and i quoted from her Wikipedia page:
“Commenting on why she decided to make the film, she said “I view making this movie as an important first step in my career … I’ve watched how successful Kim Kardashian became and I think a lot of it was due to the release of her sex tape by Vivid.” Fishburne says she is in talks with Vivid about signing a multi-picture deal due to the initial commercial success of her debut.
She said Kim Kardashian, Paris Hilton and Sasha Grey inspired her to go into porn. She also said that she did it because she believes porn is a beautiful form of art and expression.”
Another beautiful black woman, drinks the kool aid and falls for the white media’s trap.
She wasn’t told that there is a double standard in not just Hollywood but even in regular life as a none famous black person.
We as black people, shouldn’t look at white people and go, “look at what that white person is doing, if they can do it, so can we!”
Its a shame that her mother and father, didn’t have “The talk” with her about the differences, between white and black in Hollywood and America in general, if they had, she wouldn’t have thought she could do with those 3 white women have done in the porn industry did and have equal, success.
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@ peanut & sondis
*fistbump* thanks for having my back lol.
Peanut. you said pretty much everything that needed to be said. I can’t stand how whites try to compare their issues to ours. I was on a youtube vid talking about dark skin & light skin issues, and white ppl were on there saying i know what its like to be rejected because of ur skin. The guys/girls that tan get more men/ women. I’m like what does you being able to change your skin to orange by tanning or sprayin something on ur skin have to do with dark skinned ppl getting teased and rejected for something they can’t change and shouldn’t want to change.
@ sondis
Yeah montana’s parents should’ve told her she can’t do what she see white ppl do, but that’s black hollywood for ya thinking they above racism & stereotypes just because they have money now. Heck my parents told me about this when i was very young, and i saw it for myself by the time i was 8.
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[…] following is based upon Abagond’s article My supposed secret desire for white women and was requested by Ankhesen Mié to deliver a response blog […]
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lol @ Brothawolf “The Abagond Challenge” ^_^
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@Peanut I’m so sorry if my post seemed to try and minimise the much harder burden of sexist racism that African American women suffer.
I’m also sorry to hear that most white feminists have not supported you against racist sexism. That’s really disappointing and quite self-defeating really – women should be sticking up for one another!
I guess what I was trying to point out is that there is a commonality of experience in terms of sexism and misogyny between women of all backgrounds.
In other words, while I can never really understand what you go through in terms of racism, as a woman I can relate to how horrible it is to be objectified and sexually harassed. I don’t mean by saying this to take away from your experience. I’m just trying to reach across and say, “I understand just a little part of what you’re going through.”
I think another issue is that I’m based in Australia. One of the biggest topics being discussed here at the moment is sexism as it’s a lot more prevalent in Australia than just about any other Western democracy. The stats back this up. The LEADING cause of death for women aged 15-44 in Australia is domestic violence.
I won’t go into this more though as you’re right, I shouldn’t derail your discussion with a rant about sexism generally.
@sondis re: your ‘big words’ comment: unfortunately I’ve always been a bit too verbose in my writing and speaking style. I would have thought that my username kind of gives this away.
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@ wordynerdygirl:
You said:
” @sondis re: your ‘big words’ comment: unfortunately I’ve always been a bit too verbose in my writing and speaking style. I would have thought that my username kind of gives this away.”
I’m totally lost, i have no idea, what you were trying to say to me.
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@ Sondis; She’s says she likes to use big words and talk too much.
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Oh, alright…thanks for the verification, Mary. ^_^
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@sondis it’s strange how you’re concentrating energy on picking apart my writing style when there’s an actual (male) white bigot on the Trayvon thread. There hasn’t been a peep from you about the outrageous stuff he’s saying.
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@Peanut thanks, I really hope that day comes soon.
I really enjoy reading your responses, as I said before there’s much to learn from them.
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@ wordynerdygirl:
…………………….
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@sondis I could point out all the spelling errors in your posts if you prefer.
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@ wordynerdygirl:
Maybe its because i secretly desire you…. *_*
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@sondis this is getting ridiculous. Aren’t there more important things to comment on?
And as I don’t have a ‘selfie’ posted up I’d hardly be silly enough to think there’s a complimentary reason for you choosing to pick apart my responses instead of the redneck blogging on the Trayvon thread.
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@ Peanut
You did an excellent job explaining the difference treatment that we as Black women experience in society. Many white women seem to want to pretend that they are in the same boat as us and go through the exact same thing as Black women. As Black women we are constantly being challenged. We aren’t feminine enough. We aren’t beautiful. We are too strong and seek to dominate others. Even our basic humanity is called into question when we’re compared to gorillas. I don’t believe I’ve ever witnessed white women degraded in the same manner. I tend to give white women the stink eye when I hear them trying to equate their experiences with the historical and systematic mistreatment of Black women. I don’t feel that it even begins to c compare. Sorry for any typos. It’s early in the morning for me.
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*different treatment
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Not sure if you’ve written one, but can we get a post letting certain folks know that a Black man who ends up with a non-Black woman in a committed, romantic relationship does not always have some bias towards them? That there are, you know, some Black men who just happen to end up with a woman they truly care for? That he didn’t necessarily succumb to a sort of brainwashing or mental conditioning? Too many people I’ve come across will see a Black man with a non-Black woman and tend to assume that he views Black women as lesser, or maybe has some newfound superiority complex because of his non-Black significant other. Clearly, this is the case in some instances, but I’ve grown tired of the lazy generalizations. It’s incredibly infuriating. If it’s around or you don’t get around to it in the future, this was a good post.
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Abagond, your argument is based on a strawman and you know it. It is quite natural and healthy to prefer one type of woman over another, especially when it can be objectively show that due to evolutionary pressure, on type has become less beautiful than the other.
Take diasporic black women for example. We know that they evolved bigger bottoms due to the evolutionary pressure caused by the need to reduce the effects of slavemaster rape, combined with the need to store fat during escapes from the plantation. However now that such adaptions are no longer needed, we can now realise that that particular aspect of black women is in fact, grotesque.
Most other black women have evolved higher testosterone levels, as they could not escape slavery and thus had develop traits that would make them more amenable to the back breaking labour of the plantation, and make them less desirable to white men. One need only look at Caster SEMENya as an example of this.
Abagond, there is nothing wrong in admitting your true desires. Nature can only be defied so much. Most men ,in their minds, rank women from one to ten,but this is really a relative scale. Ask yourself, can an Angela Bassett compare with a Barbara Walters? Or a Michelle Obama with a Halle Berry? Can the delicate features of a Jennifer Aniston or an Angelina Jolie be said to on a higher or lower standard than that of a Vivica A Fox, or any of the women who starred on the Soul Food TV series, or a Dakore Egbuson?
Every day more and more black men are seeing the
whitelight, and are not being bogged down by traditional definitions of beauty that have been foisted upon them by black people who seek only to guilt trip them into staying in an mental ghetto in perpetuity. In more and more of your post, I see that you are also struggling with the beauty standards that the black community have put on you. In time though, you will break the shackles of mental bondage that the black community have bonded you withLikeLike
Folks, I have a confession to make! I have lusted after Steve Reeves since forever. Albeit he is the only white man I can make this claim of! Steve Reeves:
Barring Steve, the other white men I am attracted to are; Warren Buffet, Rupert Murdoch and any other elderly wealthy white men with heart problems or other health woes!!
Abagond, and the rest of you black men here, there are a lot of older wealthy white women out there looking to slake their lustful fantasy with some black man. Go for it! Make sure your name is on the will though!
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@ Satanforce
LMAO. I respect your efforts to free me from the shackles of mental slavery.
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You think this is all a goddam joke, don’t you? Well guess what? Its serious business!! You think that you can just sit there on your high horse and think that you’re better than me because you live in America and guilt trip the government into giving you handouts? Well the world doesn’t work that way. Black self-improvement is serious business!!! We have to improve ourselves. The Man doesn’t you or me, or Herneith a damn thing!!!!
@Herneith
MMy father was a purchasing manager at popular Jamaican hotel, frequented by “special clientele” in winter, and African-Americans in the summer. Believe me, there is nothing more traumatic to a young teenager than being propositioned by a white woman old enough to be my great-grandmother’s younger sister. Worse, they think they’re the hottest thing because they’re white people in a black country. Uggghhhh.
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@Satanforce:
“Take diasporic black women for example. We know that they evolved bigger bottoms due to the evolutionary pressure caused by the need to reduce the effects of slavemaster rape, combined with the need to store fat during escapes from the plantation.”
AND
“Most other black women have evolved higher testosterone levels, as they could not escape slavery and thus had develop traits that would make them more amenable to the back breaking labour of the plantation, and make them less desirable to white men.”
Can you provide me with references for these claims. I was under the impression that testosterone levels in women varied depending on diet.
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I think satanforce is just joking [I hope]. I saw his tumblr and he has beautiful black women on there and praises their natural beauty so I think he is being sarcastic. sarcasm is so hard to pick up when you on the internet.
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There’s a new label for plus sized women. WOS (Woman of Size) Every women should embrace her beauty whatever size she is.
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You and Abagond apparently take me for some k9id of damn joke, when I am doing my best to EXPOSE black women for what they are.
Everyone knows that natural-haired, dark-skinned, athletically built black women are all lesbians. This is part of their plot to destroy the black race, as Sgt. Willie Pete and Tommy Sotomayor have explained so may times. For example:
1. The “hair care” products that black women use have led to the creation of one of the most environmentally destructive phenomena in the world – the Gulf of Mexico dead zone.
2. Black women’s pre- and post-natal abortions have caused the greatest genocide of since the Slave Trade.
3. Mot black women look like orangutans, are the size of gorillas,behave like chimps and have sex like bonobos ON PURPOSE, forcing their usuak suitors to seek other options.
Perhaps, at some time in the future, our offspring will be able to reconcile, and rebuild the black race. Now, with black women the way the are, the re can be no compunctions, no compromise, and no compassion.
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I asked my husband about this topic. he said he prefers black women, but he does find some white women in particular very attractive – Megan fox, Milan Kunis, Alyssa Milano. He seems to like dark haired white women more than blondes or red heads. Now he loves Mexican or Spanish women, Selma Hayek and Jessica Alba. He likes women with bigger behinds and curvier bodies. But he also said he sees a lot more ordinary or plain women.
I do think any man saying he doesn’t like a whole group of women is lying. There’s someone he finds attractive whatever her race. I just think it may surprise him to realize that he does find a woman attractive that isn’t his normal “ideal”. Plus they want to deny attraction to other types of women for fear of what friends and family may say.
I’m all for interracial relationships as long as both people are honest about why they are attracted to the other and not “fetishizing” or using each other. Nobody wants to be the girl some WM ( or any non-black man) experimented with to see what sex is like with a black girl.
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The wm/bm dynamic is interesting. The latter is often intimidated by the curves and secretly wonders if he’ll measure up to the bm performance he’s seen in countless IR porn.
Frankly,IMO ww are hilariously overrated. Megan Fox/Cameron Diaz and Gwyneth combined can’t hold a candle compared to Nerissa Irving.
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There’s a certain section of White Americans who try to drive home the point that they are the most attractive people on the planet, desire by one and all from East to West, South Pole to North Pole.
OK, if that helps you sleep at night – go on insisting this is true.
The fact of the matter is that people of Northern and Western European descent are not even considered sexually attractive to one another.
Evidence?
Look at the marriage and birth rates of Western and Northern European countries. Almost non-existent at this point. And their American counterparts are not too far behind.
Meanwhile the masses of colored people the world over are continuing to marry in a traditional sense and breed lots of babies.
So if white folk really are all that – how come they can’t get sexually attracted to each other long enough to produce cute little white babies?
Also, I’ve travelled far and wide and the absolute worst agers of all are Northern and Western European descended folks.
Thin skin that shoes every blue vein and stretch mark.
Wrinkles by 27
Looking 60 at 40
These folks hit their walls young, fast and hard.
I don’t blame them for not wanting to sex each other up and reproduce.
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From laromana:
Peanut says,
I think that all races of women are equal in beauty. In fact I will say beauty doesn’t have anything to do with race or skin color, that is an idea that people have come up with, but beauty has never been about skin color throughout history. Everyone has their preference in general, but beauty goes beyond race/skin color. There are beautiful ww, I agree that Megan Fox is beautiful, but I also think Leila Lopes, Brigid Turner, Gabrielle Union, Nerissa Irving are all beautiful and they do not get the same opportunities as white women who are equally beautiful or even less beautiful get.
Society does not treat beautiful Black women the same as beautiful white women and they would sooner put up a Jennifer Anniston than a Brigid Turner because beautiful Black women threaten white supremacy. So as long as white supremacy continues and Beautiful Black women continue to be devalued, I will continue to advocate for Black women. Im not concerned about white women because they have more than enough support.
so why people come on here and get offended because ONE Black man expresses as preference for Black women is beyond my understanding. go on some of those other thousands of websites that say FAR WORSE things about Black women and complain to white men about their preferences, complain to them about the pictures they put up of below average black women.
Go tell them to change their pictures on those blogs where they put up monkey pictures of Black women and then call us all ugly. I mean come on, I can’t even believe that people are complaining about a picture that abagond put up of a white woman at least she’s AVERAGE looking and at least shes’ human…go to other blogs and bitch about the monkey pictures they put up of black women…write letters to Elle magazine for over looking Black women who don’t conform to the mammy stereotype that white people love so much.
If ANY THING White people are the ones who lie about finding other races attractive, otherwise why would they even put up pictures of monkies in place of real Black women and why do they ALMOST NEVER show an equally beautiful Black woman when paired with a white woman?
You look on blogs and you see Megan Fox compared to morbidly obese, old Black women or you look at movies and you have Scarlett O’Hara a younger, attractive white woman paired with Mammy, who is an older, aseuxal, obese Black woman or Prissy…
please, white people, in general, ARE FAR MORE GUILTY of lying about finding other races attractive. it’s almost UNACCEPTABLE to have an equally attractive Black woman put on the same level as a white woman.
laromana says,
Peanut, I agree with your analysis of how Black beauty is demeaned, degraded, and devalued in America. You give excellent examples of how the BW HATE culture in America spreads ANTI-BW lies/myths/stereotypes and helps brainwash ALL American men to hate BW solely because they’re Black (eg.by teaching them to see them as ugly/not “good enough” to date or marry).
The fact is that Black beauty is NOT INFERIOR to White/Non-Black beauty and NEVER has been.
ALL American men need to learn to reject BW HATE/ see and appreciate Black beauty in the same way they do
White/Non-Black beauty .
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Amazing! This blog looks just like my old one!
It’s on a totally different topic but it has pretty much the same layout and design. Superb choice of colors!
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