On this thread nothing is off topic, though the rest of the comment policy still applies. If you want to say something off topic, this is the place to do it.
PLEASE DO NOT POST ANY EMBEDDED VIDEOS ON THIS THREAD!!
I allowed that at first but then within a month the thread became very slow and tended to crash my browser. Unfortunately WordPress now autoembeds YouTube videos. To defeat this put the YouTube link in parentheses, like this:
Can someone direct me to a link showing the most accurate/popular version of the Electric Slide.
One of my children is involved in dancing and has asked about this.
Ta very much in advance
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abagond what were your experiences growing up, were you the token black guyat school, like me or were most of your experinces later on in life?
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@ Proud:
I got the masthead image from here:
and then in WordPress I did Appearance->Header.
For the “Stop Censorship” ribbon I did Settings->Stop SOPA/PIPA and it was one of the choices on that page.
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“Red Tails” was disappointing in more ways than one.
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Hey Abagond, some folks from Slate did a review of the Red Tails movie. It contains spoilers, but the points are really interesting…and don’t sound too promising:
http://www.jackandjillpolitics.com/2012/01/a-red-tail-in-the-ointment/
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Wow, at this rate my expectations will be so low I might wind up liking it!
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@ Bulanik
Do you remember what you did? There might be a bad link somewhere or something.
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Red Tails wasn’t “that” bad. It was just too squeaky clean with dull characters. My expectations going in weren’t too high, because I went in remembering that it’s a LucasArts film (…yeah), that was (co?)written by Aaron McGruder. What’s both telling and predictable is that there are many (white no doubt) critics who found it “unrealistic” because it depicted black people who weren’t connected with the crap on BET, or anything else urban.
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There was a review in the Toronto Star about this movie. I was intertested in perhaps attending a matinee show for half price until I came upon this paragraph:
To the credit of director Anthony Hemingway, and also screenwriters John Ridley and Aaron McGruder, the film doesn’t seek to demonize whites, just as it also freely depicts the fears and flaws of the blacks.
http://www.toronto.com/article/710635
Isn’t McGruder the one who writes that cartoon with the self hating loon, uncle Buzzerd or what ever his name is? Maybe McGruder isn’t that different from uncle Buzzerd! Based upon the above paragraph I will not be seeing a white washed version of history. I am sick and tired of it.
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@ Herneith
You are thinking of Uncle Ruckus:
It is the same McGruder.
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That appears to be set in Nairobi.
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@Bulanik
Personally, I can take or leave Ceee Lo Green but my kids like him so I generally get to hear him. I confess that at times its my children that keep me in touch with up to date music. If I had my way I would be listening to CD’s from yesteryear all the time which is extremely boring and surprising for someone like me who lurves me music. The only thing I can attribute it to is that current popular music seems to be all very generic at the moment – maybe i’m not listening with ‘open ears’ though.
Mr Maxwell makes music melt in the mind…smooth 🙂
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@Bulanik
Re Joyce Carol Vincent.
This is tragic and shocking, particularly in this day and age. At first I was expecting to read about an individual that had fallen on hard times i.e. money, drugs, – the cycle basically, and the downward spiral but this wasnt the case.
This was a beautiful, intelligent and seemingly vibrant individual who fell off the radar and lay dead for 3 years with no definitive answer as to the cause of death.
I was surprised that there was not more input from the family – the reporter seems to speculate a lot about the interaction with the family and others in hindsight now notice that she barely/rarely mentioned her family so i’m wondering if there is something amiss here.
I’m not sure whether or not this is a talking point in the UK – I certainly didnt know about it but shall try to raise awareness in my own little way.
What are your thoughts Bulanik?
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Re: Joyce Vincent – how much part do you think race (directly and indirectly) had to do with her outcome?
Hmmm. I really dont know Bulanik. The information gleaned about her is so scant that I couldnt say either way. You say that this story is too close for comfort so – hopefully this will encourage people who feel that they are in a similar position to put a contingency plan in place to ensure that their fate does not go undiscovered for so long like poor Joyce. Do you think race was a signficant contributing factor in this?
I am dismayed that those who maintained they ‘knew’ her in hindsight really didnt ‘know’ her at all. Was she hiding something about herself?? Most definately but, was it sinister or her own insecurities that caused her to do this, I guess we may never know.
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Re Red Tails
I’m not a film buff and tend to hear about movies via word of mouth. I havent read or heard anything about this and I certainly dont know the history but I will check out – the same with the Danny Glover film about Haiti.
BTW, thanks for trying to look for the Electric Slide for me and thank you for the links. I will look up this Mr Van Hunt – certain parts of the song put me in mind of riffs from Lenny Kravitz. LOL at the condom ad – thought the song by boy band BLUE in the background was an unusal choice.
Meanwhile, may I leave you with a couple of classics…
(http://youtu.be/J0Kllwz0Pnc)
and this advert puts me in mind in of moguls and their promotion of rubbish not just in terms of music but in their influence in many areas of media…
(http://youtu.be/uDEJpqljvIc)
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I saw it. I am writing my post on it…
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My latest post in the “How to write about black women ” section is not showing up, not even as a moderated comment. Have I been banned, or something up with the comments section?
I have been able to post on other WordPress forums, as recently as a few minutes ago.
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@ Satanforce:
My spam filter saw it as spam, probably because of the links.
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@Bulanik
Firstly, the report said that she was living in ‘safe’ accommodation given to her as a battered woman. Anyone who qualifies for that provision has to really need it.
I don’t have any inside knowledge about domestic violence, but it’s clear that in order to gain support like this, a woman – or man – who is abused by their partner have to be perceived as innocent victims who suffered at the hands of particularly deviant men (or physically violent women).
This struck me and kept niggling at the back of my mind but I wasnt sure why until now. If, as is stated, she was in ‘safe’ accommodation, there would have been someone assigned to check on her surely? What on earth happened in this situation? Someone who has to flee and go undercover so to speak, would be working with some kind of ‘case worker’ who presumably would have had a duty of care for Joyce. I can understand how one or two days might pass without any contact but this woman lay undiscovered for 3 years!!!!
I saw no mention in the article of how or why she came to be in this type of accommodation – I can only assume there was credence to the type of accommodation she was given but, having said this, in my own experience, my first ‘housing’ experience was a flat which housed many people with mental health issues – I can be a ‘crazy cow’ but of course, this is no official diagnosis
🙂
Secondly, she may have had a shaky sense of identity. Her mother was Indian. How a mixed-race person perceives and defines themselves is a very personal thing – opinions and experience vary so much.
In England, most mixed race people have one white parent and one black parent. They can refer to each other. They can see each other all the time. In contrast, there are very, very few who are of South Asian and African mixture. Joyce’s Asian family may not have ‘owned’ her, and her black family may have been ambivalent, at best.
Who knows, she may have been bullied and shamed about her Indian-ness by black people AND white people, despicably ignored by both as well as being excluded by other Indian people?
True, its possible that she may have not had a strong sense of identity but it seems that of the people that came forward as her ‘friends’ and those who were alluded to in the article, that she would have been surrounded by a diverse and multi ethnic group of individuals. London is supposedly the melting pot of the UK so whilst her ‘mix’ may not have been common, would this have been deemed different enough to make her feel alienated to that degree? I take on board what you say about family though as this is where we want/need crave acceptance. Having said that, I have a friend with the same ethnic mix and whilst her parents empowered her as a woman, there was NO grounding for her in terms of her ethnic identity. The result is she is ambivalent about who she is and knows that she is identified as ‘black’ but this doesnt sit comfortably with her as she knows next to nothing about even her own family heritage on the ‘black’ side of the family and for her formative years, there was little interaction on the part of the Asian side of the family who never forgave her dad for marrying a black woman as black people were slaves and beneath them!!! She has a daughter now with a wM and I can see that there will be a struggle going forward as to how she will expose that child to their own unique personal identity.
In fact, I was interested in everybody but never particularly, or interested in white people in a special way at all. I don’t know why. This is despite, or because of, having a fairly good understanding of white supremacy from a young age. I haven’t figured that one yet, Demerera
Over exposure perhaps 🙂 . I wonder if it depends on your influences? My beautiful mother is such a strong and powerful woman and has a profound pride in herself as a BW. It never occurred to me to want to be anything else and I guess in truth, mum and her friends made the idea of being anything other than BW sound less than appealing. I dont mean to say they ran WW down – certainly my mum felt that there was no competition as far as she was concerned 😉
Saying that, I grew up on a council estate and it was quite a mixture of classes and races of people – posh but down on their luck and the not very well ,off but mostly, single parent families. I know some of the women were seen as quite formidable but at times, black and white used to mix and in all honesty I never experienced racism on my estate. Its when we used to go up the road to access the park at the other estate (homeowners, predominantly white) that was where the real nastiness took place.
I dont think you should dwell on this point too much – I do unfortunately think Bulanik that it is overkill and from very young we are forced to think that it is primarily ‘white’ that matters. When you dont ‘fit’ this group either from self/their exclusion, you begin to realise that there is such a rich and diverse world out there and that there are more versions and layers to life than you could possibly learn by studying one particular race of people….
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@Bulanik
Your part-Asian, part-African friend sounds like she did not have the benefit of parents who taught her pride in both sides of her heritage.
You are right. I have met both on several occasions and felt that they were trying to ‘escape’ from who they were in some ways, whilst knowing that they couldn’t in others.
Do you think your friend ever felt a sense of being ‘limited’ as being defined by others as black only?
I certainly think she felt restricted and that being labelled ‘black’ was discomfiting as she experienced racism and estrangement from her peers who knew she was ‘some kind of black’ but not a ‘black’ they were familiar with.
Did people who barely knew ever insist on telling who and what she was?
Yes, and from what I gather in the worst possible way. Considering she held the belief that her father should be considered ‘white’ despite the fact he clearly was not.
Did she find some black people were hostile to her for being different – and did they ever attempt to close her down, pretend to ‘pity’ her, or even hate on her – whenever she strove to know and claim her Asian identity? Did they tell her that she thought she was” white” for daring to openly claiming her Asian-ness?
From what she has said she had very little interaction with black people – not even the family on her mothers side. Her interaction with her paternal side was more involved, but even they thought she was ‘different’ from what I can tell as she didnt speak the native tongue and hold the same tradition/religion as they did. She has been told that she acted ‘white’ and initially she seemed to have taken this as a compliment but soon realised that this was the antithesis of what was meant.
I guess this is a prime example of not being black enough for some and not white enough to pass. I used to get the sense she felt burdened by this but, I feel that over the years she has become more relaxed about this.
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I will do the post this weekend. And then probably not do any posts next week because the comments will be a nightmare. Brace for impact.
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@ Peanut
Wait for the post.
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Hi Abagond.
I just learned about this thing called the linguistic category model yesterday in a class called “Intergroup Relations.” I am going to forward you a pdf that you may (or may not) want to check out. Hearing your take could be extremely interesting/informative.
JT
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Super! Send it along.
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Nice that you pruned your open thread- it took like 5 mins to load (in the 1000s) keep up the good work Abagond 🙂
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Abagond, you have anything on the Black Panther Party for Self Defense?
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No, I have not done that one yet. The closest thing I have is a post on Fred Hampton:
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@ Bulanik
I have seen her paintings before and that is how I took it.
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@Bulanik
I must confess, I’m not really sure how to interpret what she is doing here – she states that the girls in her pictures will ‘have a harder time than she did even when she was a child achieving the kinds of things ‘love’ songs promise’. This does not explain to me why she has chosen to ‘colour’ their faces in such a way.
When I look at these paintings, it makes me think of the way white beauty standards inflicted on black girls and women become internalized.
Yes, I guess you could argue that this is one interpretation and that by giving them this ‘white face facade’ may make them more able to be loved however, she hasnt painted their whole face – its clear that they are still black children so I really dont know.
I am poor at art appreciation though – even when I went to the Louvre in Paris I found myself only looking at pictures from artists that were familiar to me.
Would love to hear how others interpret this though….
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@Bunik
Fascinating painting! I like the way the girls are ortraited almost as circusfreak. Not like the had wanted to pay themselves, but were forced to perform as disguised under a mas on the grand stage of life. Very sad, almost confused and uncomfortable loooks on their eyes.
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My guess is that these are comments on the racist beauty standards in USA. Why? She did not mask these girls but just painted them partly white, or poorly, as to show that this can not be done, that it is not natural but weird thing. In another words: black girls should be black girls because that way they look more beatiful. And also: you can not force any beauty standard on any one, let alone “white”.
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I do love art (vanishing point) and I feel uncomfortable looking at these paintings because it is through a white artist lens and somehow, while the work is very beautiful, I think she also adds in this sort of tourist look into the world of the girls, and honestly, I think the artist also added in what she interprets as tribal or jungle into them. I think artists like to be controversial and these works will get attention. The interpretation of the Clark doll test or white beauty of standard doesn’t ring true in these painting. But that is just my opinion.
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@Bulanik
I find it interesting that she used the dwarf as her symbol of the white woman, perfect in morals and as she puts it, “maimed”. Thanks for the additional link.
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Also, I think that herstatement mainly discusses the dwarf, it’s all about the dwarf and not much about racism is discussed, so I am left confused by her intentions.
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@Bulanik
Are the good and the beautiful more loved, and deserving and easier to love?
I would certainly say that when people are put up on a pedestal and deemed to be the pinnacle of physical perfection that people think that they can do no wrong. Its almost like they are the light and everyone else is dull by contrast and that people cannot stand this to be tainted. Basically, people will forgive anyone anything when the wrongdoer is wrapped in a beautiful package.
Women do measure themselves one another in terms of beauty standards or have aspirations to be like X person, and in itself thats fine, as long as it is not used to put down others if they chose not to be a party to this but alas, this is not the case.
Certainly when I was growing up, WW were always deemed as the most beautiful – I certainly dont recall hearing X BW in the media deemed as pretty or beautiful in fact, like many children of the late 70’s and 80’s you were hard pressed to find BP on the telly!!!!! In fact, the only BW that probably was on a lot at the time was Shirley Bassey who was probably a ‘safe’ bet as she was a mixed race woman with a white mother and she didnt act/talk ethnic so she would not have offended the sensibilities of the predominantly white audience of the time.
Strange though, as I got older and more boys were tentatively embarking on their dating experiences, I sensed that the ‘pretty white girls’ I grew up with were no longer so self assured around black girls as those same girls became women and carried themselves with the same pride and dignity as many of their mothers/peers. They no longer needed the assurance from their white counterparts that they were ‘pretty for a black girl’ nor did they listen to the white boys that had called them names when they were younger. One look in the eyes of the said males, showed you that at times, their words had belied what they really thought about Black girls….
What were your observations growing up?
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Hey Abagond,
Is there anyway to ban Thordaddy for spam? It seems beyond reason what he does to the comments section of every post you make. I don’t know maybe i am just impatient/intolerant to his views but i can’t even make sense of what he writes. I have given up trying. Just a thought.
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Article on Spike Lee’s Red Hook Summer
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/01/26/spike-lee-talks-hollywood-racism-new-film-red-hook-summer.html
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@Bulanik:
Thank you for introducing this wonderful artist to me! Great technique and a very vibrant color palette. I also appreciate the thought behind it. I see nothing strange about an artist expressing views on other ethnicities or politics or anything else for that matter. It is important to take a stand and support a cause you believe in.
And furthermore, those paintings are immaculately executed. I wish I had that skill and vision.
Bulanik, I’d appreciate if you found some time to point me to other artists you find of interest. If you have the time, that is.
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@Bulanik:
Thanks! Fantastic work. So colorful and vibrant and yet so clear. Masterful command of color. I can almost feel the scorching midday sun in a buysy African city. I’d like to post that on my wall… and no, not on my FACEBOOK wall, but my actual wall, lol! 😀
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@Bulanik
Very nice indeed, thanks for the info! You seem to be the woman of culture at Abagond’s.
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@bulanik: That guy was the winner in the London olympic games 1948 in javelin throw, or silver medalist, forgot which one. Made lot of songs that became almost folks songs. He also was a national movie star. When I came home from US the first song I heard was by this guy. 😀
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Tapio was also a world champion in team archery. Not too shabby. He definitely is the ultimate singer-songwriter. A big, athletic guy too.
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Do you guys check out the comics at this site? http://173.236.60.18/~herevill/leftycartoons.com/?p=326
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@CeCe D:
I’ve been to that site. I like the cartoon you linked.
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@Bulanik:
I read the article you linked. I’m not surprised. It all plays into their desire to be seen as good.
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Here in sunny England there has been a series of recent high profile racist incidents in football (soccer) involving a black player and a mixed-race player being racially abused by two of their fellow players and one young mixed race player being racially abused by the crowd until he was reduced to tears during the match.
The media coverage of these incidents has been pathetic and the opinions on the radio phone ins have been typically despicable. They described the players who were racially abused as somehow being troublemakers for committing the crime of being racially abused and they attempted to minimize it by describing it as just “banter” and a “misunderstanding” and wheeling out their house Negroes to parrot their lines and suggested the player that complained called Patrice Evra was making it up and portrayed the guy who racially abused him called Suarez as being the victim and some kind of martyr because he was banned for a few games after being found guilty of racist conduct. The mixed race guy called Anton Ferdinand was sent an Air gun bullet through the post by a fan of the other team for committing the crime of being racially abused. Apparently not his first death threat over the incident.
So yesterday the two teams of Evra and Suarez met to play a game and at the start of the game the camera went on the racist who was sitting in the stand because he is banned, playing with his little daughter and the TV commentator purred how cute they looked together and how sweet it was and then back in the studio the host said to an ex-player from Evra’s team “but Evra is no angel himself is he?” to which the player to his credit replied “Evra hasn’t done anything wrong.”
During the game the fans of the club the racist belongs to booed Evra through the whole match every time he touched the ball and he subsequently played badly and made a mistake that led to the winning goal from the other side.
When the other side won the game the camera immediately panned to the racist sitting in the stand with a big smug triumphant smile on his face, like he thought that his team winning somehow vindicated him for his racist behaviour.
Today on the news they have been talking about how the game was played in a good spirit and how the crowd behaved well and only indulged in good natured banter (I guess I must have imagined the booing of Evra all game).
In this sick, wicked, racist country being racially abused is making trouble and being the racist who racially attacks others is being the innocent victim.
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@Robert
NB* My football acronyms may be incorrect but hopefully this wont prove too distracting 🙂
Your observations are spot on. Racism and thuggery have unfortuntately gone hand in hand for years in football, though in the case of the former, there certainly have not been any attempts to address this properly at all in the past. In fact, if you werent a football fan you would easily think that racism in the game doesnt exist as there was basically no coverage of this at all. We know that this filters down from the top of the FIFA – that bloke, cant recall his name, old geezer who last year denied there was any racism in football??? Following this many presenters commenting on this story remarked that he was hopelessley out of touch with reality and needed to be replaced.
The state of British football is such that, if they didnt have the international players that they do, the whole of the FA would be in jeopardy as England is just not producing the standard of players that other countries are. There is little to get excited about when the World Cup begins – they rely on the ‘same’ players all the flippin time and they dont appear to learn anything from past experiences. It is embarrasing as a nation who boasts this as National Sport that has been a part of British culture since the 19th Century, that at times they struggle to get into the Semi Finals!!!!!
The players are treated like celebrities and paid an absolute fortune and whilst I revere athletes from all types of sports, there is no incentive for these individuals to do better. IMO they should bring in a bit of a strategy to ensure that players work to their full potential. A standard flat fee for turning up to training/game, commission for how many times they get the ball and pass accordingly, and a bonus for every goal they get… but I digress 🙂
Is this the same with other team sports I ask myself? Does this happen in the Rugby? Does the seeminly accessibility of football encourage a less civilised and uncultured kind of fan I wonder? Though quite young at the time, I recall, I think LInford Christie talking about the fac that when he lost a race or any negative articles came out about him he was ‘Jamaican born Christie’, but when he won, he was ‘British Athlete Linford…’ Black athletes are prevalent in the majority of british sports, sports where they are often world class contenders. I guess the white people that think this kind of behaviour is acceptable/should not be challenged will have to weigh up whether or not they want to be contenders in the arena of sports anymore…
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“In this sick, wicked, racist country being racially abused is making trouble and being the racist who racially attacks others is being the innocent victim.”
******************************
@ Robert
It appears Bizzaro England is as racist as Bizzaro America in quite a number of similar ways.
It’s clear that whiteness kills the souls of its adherents, no matter which part of the globe they occupy. Thanks for sharing this account.
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speaking of racism in sports:
University of Montreal students thought it would be fun to don black face this past fall and dress in the colors of jamaica.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2011/10/05/f-vp-fatah.html
Canada, England, United States.
Same shit. Different pile.
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@Bulanik:
Thank you very much for providing the Youtube clips. What can I say? I’m truly disgusted by the racist taunts and “Heil Hitler” salutes from the crowd. I haven’t experienced what these players have been subjected to, but I can understand their anger. Hell, I’d walk off the field in protest, too. No one deserves the racial abuses heaped upon them. The Spanish coach’s denial that he did anything wrong is telling with his statement, “I cannot understand. And I have gypsy friends, black, yellow friends.” It’s along the same lines as “I’m not a racist . Some of my best friends are black.”
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@Robert
You forgot to mention that in both cases the punishment is disproportionately severe. Suarez got an 8 game ban for using the word “negro” multiple times when he addressed Evra in Spanish. Terry can even by banned permanently from the English national team for (allegedly) calling Ferdinand a “fu**ing black c**t”.
These kinds of bans should be given to players who hurt other players’ bodies, not their feelings.
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@Bulanik
We have to remember that many team sports, played by strong young men, fired up with testosterone and adrenaline and passion to win is veritably LADEN with vulgarity, aggression and abuse. A goal is scored, and then – what – they are kissing each other? Have you watched how boxers abuse each other? And then, professing their deep respect for each other after the blows are exchanged?
True, what you say about these young men and their hormones – often, they are plucked from the relative obscurity of a local team or an apprentice with a dividion team and catapulted into a world where you are valued for your skill and ability on the pitch and can cash in and become a commodity to promote a product or service. Most of them come from ‘ordinary’ families and they are thrust into an arena where joshing and teasing is the norm and racist innuedos are are a huge part of this and for the longest time, they were expected to just ‘deal with it’ as this was probably seen as going with the territory to some degree. In fact, I can imagine that for any young black player that this will often determine how quick they are chosen or their ability to progress is how resilient they are to this kind of abuse and more importantly for the manager, the less fuss the better approach towards it. There is a huge amount of cossetting and protecting going on in some parts of the league it seems that some of these individuals barely got past being toilet trained let alone having any moral code or respect or decency before embarking on what can turn out to be a high profile career in football. All these sex scandals – I’m not talking about single players here having X amount of lovers, more they trysts and the affairs and the accusations of rape. Also, very telling that other than the late Justin Fashanau, there are (to my knowledge anyway) no self confessed gay players.
The reality is that if they had to stop the racist chants and abuse and the general foul language, they are concerned that this sport would no longer appeal to the common man. They dont want this to become a gentlemans sport. They cant afford for this to happen and for years, instead of trying to educate and eradicate the problem, they have covered it up and lied every time when questioned about whether they feel racism as a growing concern in football.
Years ago, I went for an interview at my local Football club for an office based job. One of the things that was said to me was that there was a lot of banter at the club between players and staff etc and how did I feel about that? I said I was fine with that. He then went on to reiterate how important it was to ‘have a laugh and not get upset about things as, some of the lads etc, can use quite choice words and language’. I nodded, and he kept persisting about how ‘offensive’ some of this language might seem to outsiders not used to this – how did I feel about that? I said something like ‘as long as they can cope with someone who gives as good as they get’. I had long forgotten about that interview but discussing football in this way has brought it back and also reminds me of the enormity of what he was trying to convey to me. He was trying to say that, they behave inappropriately, they know they behave inappropriately and that to be part of the work place I would have to accept that innapropriateness. Needless to say I didnt get the job – I am soooo relieved. I have been in roles for years where I have addressed continual microagressions amongst so called intelligent individuals, to have to deal with overt racism amongst neanderthals would have ended up with me being sectioned with several others following close behind after I finished mentally ‘doing their heads in’ LOL.
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@Bulanik
“Mr Evra’s evidence was that, in response to his question “Why did you kick me?”, Mr Suárez replied “Porque tu eres negro”. Mr Evra said that at the time Mr Suárez made that comment, he (Mr Evra) understood it to mean “Because you are a nigger”. He now says that he believes the words used by Mr Suárez mean “Because you are black”.
“Mr Evra said that he followed up Mr Suárez’s reply “Because you are black” by saying “Habla otra vez asi, te voy a dar una porrada”, which means “Say it to me again, I’m going to punch you”. Mr Suárez replied by saying “No hablo con los negros”. Mr Evra said that, at the time, he understood this to mean “I don’t speak to niggers”, although he now says it means “I don’t speak to blacks”.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/jan/01/fa-report-luis-suarez-patrice-evra
I’m inclined to believe Evra’s account since I have been on the receiving end of a denial by a racist and of course all the White people believed her even the White people who told me they abhor racism.
Funny you should mention that looks like that is making a comeback:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2093276/Liverpool-fan-accused-making-monkey-gesture–police-investigate.html
Yeah the racism is virulent and overt there on the continent, the same way they would still be here if Blacks hadn’t fought so valiantly against English racism.
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@ Matari
Oh yes, the extremist right-wing government we’ve got in now is importing every regressive policy they can copy from the U.S. and the English people? they cheer it on all the way in the belief it will hurt the someone else who deserves it and not them or their children, but if they paid attention to the U.S. they would see the White middle-class there used to think they were untouchable too and now they are fast joining the ranks of the poor and having to live in tent cities, but these people here never learn and believe everything they read in the 95 percent right-wing newspapers, so they will have to find out the hard way, it’s just a shame the minority of decent people here are going to suffer too.
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You’re White I take it?
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@eco
You forgot to mention that in both cases the punishment is disproportionately severe. Suarez got an 8 game ban for using the word “negro” multiple times when he addressed Evra in Spanish. Terry can even by banned permanently from the English national team for (allegedly) calling Ferdinand a “fu**ing black c**t”.
These kinds of bans should be given to players who hurt other players’ bodies, not their feelings.
No-one forgot to mention anything eco, the punishment is right and just – for far to long footballers have not been held to account for their conduct both on and off the pitch. They get paid too much and rewarded too readily when the reality is that the as a national team, England have not brought pride to the country via the game for over 40 odd years (the Great 66′ team and even that was borderline). What is disproportionate is the amount that they get paid in comparison to the real heroes of British society – the emergency services i.e. Drs, nurses, firemen etc.
So eco, how are these players supposed to cope when they not only have to deal with this shite from their team mates, but also go out there and deal with it from the masses? You expect them to still be on form? Your being dismissive of the pain that can be caused by this specific kind of abuse , tis an example of the desperate state of the game. These guys are in premiership clubs and accused of racist behaviour (and considering the fame of these individuals it could be argued that the are in turn inciting racist behaviour) and yet you are worried about the fact they may get banned!!!! Surely, there are enough good people to take their place….or then again, maybe not which alas, is the reality of the situation.
Playing football for a premiership team should be an honour – and whilst initially they might feel that pride for playing for a high profile team, this quickly gets replaced by the players feelings of entitlement which detracts from them putting their efforts in to being the best that they can be IMO. They feel that by being in the Premiership they can do and get away with anything and I think this is in stark contrast to many of the international players, many who have come from impoverished backgrounds and know the value and responsibility of bringing pride to the game and a nation. It is down to the International players, many of whom are Black as to why there are so many successful premiership teams. Without the interjection of international players, many of these teams would have been relegated to the murky depths of the lower divisions never to see the light of day again. Many are just mediocre and really arent good enough to play such a high standard of football and England have not been world class contenders as a national team for many years.
So tell me again eco why these players should have to put up with racism? Think about it – who needs who here? Without the players who have been putting up with this f***in shite for years, most of these teams would vanish without a trace anyway. If these idiots cant restrain themselves and behave decently then perhaps they will be willing to put more effort in and actually helpt the teams achieve victory instead of notoriety.
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@eco
Maybe because assholes making vicious comments like this more often than not leads to ‘real’ physical violence because like small children who have not been taught restraint, these wasters cant help but take it to the next level.
I know this eco because once, when I went to a pub during a football match, a WM individual made a choice comment about one of the black players to a BP. The predominantly white group laughed until a comment was made about the inadequacies of the white player comparitively to the BP – wow. A near riot ensued. WM cannot take being reminded that comparatively to the BM form that they are often seen as unremarkable it seems. Remember this eco when you are next out in the pub, laughing and ‘accepting’ that racist sh*t happens.
Meanwhile you are blatantly ignoring the fact that verbal harrasment/abuse is a violation to an individual and is in fact a crime no matter where it is perpetrated and more importantly regardless of who is the perpetrator.
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@ Bulanik
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/how-a-safety-net-designed-to-help-those-most-in-need-became-a-kafkaesque-nightmare.16597032
Iain Duncan Smith Secretary of State for Work and Pensions actually said: “Work makes you free” in regard to the sick and disabled, which is almost identical to Nazi slogan: “Arbeit macht frei” that was above the Auschwitz extermination camp.
A lord of all people called Lord Patel said about this Government’s policies towards the disabled which he and the other lords tried to block: “If we are going to rob the poor to pay the rich then we enter a different form of morality”. Many sick, disabled and vulnerable people have already committed suicide over the pressure these sociopaths are putting on them and many more will in the near future. I don’t think it would be an exaggeration to say that these people are evil.
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@Demerera
“Maybe because assholes making vicious comments like this more often than not leads to ‘real’ physical violence”
Are you aware how common trash talk is in this sport and how rarely it leads to actual violence?
“Meanwhile you are blatantly ignoring the fact that verbal harrasment/abuse is a violation to an individual and is in fact a crime no matter where it is perpetrated and more importantly regardless of who is the perpetrator.”
Sure, but how severe is it? More then breaking someones leg and ruining their career?
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@ Demerera
Thank you, well said.
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@eco
“Meanwhile you are blatantly ignoring the fact that verbal harrasment/abuse is a violation to an individual and is in fact a crime no matter where it is perpetrated and more importantly regardless of who is the perpetrator.”
Sure, but how severe is it? More then breaking someones leg and ruining their career?
Ok, so we are in agreement that being a footballer is a vocation right? So, when you go to work eco, would you expect to have to take verbal abuse from your colleagues? Would you allow clients to call in and call you an f***in c*nt, threaten you, slag off your girlfriend just because you happen to represent this organisation. I do not believe for one minute that you would tolerate this and I certainly dont believe that if this were happening to you continually or that there was the threat of this happening to you, that it would not take its toll on you in some way or other.
Similarly, on the pitch, playing for their team, this is becomes the footballers ‘office/factory’. They should NOT have to go to work and accept abuse from their colleagues/peers or their clients/customers/supporters. Abuse of this kind should be treated as a crime, if only to set a precedent so that players ‘learn’ what is and what isnt acceptable. As football is such a pivotal sport in Britain this could only be a good thing which would hopefully filter down into ordinary society.
When you are continually demeaned, harrased and humiliated publicly in this way it can and WILL take its toll on the individual and just because it is not something that requires a plaster to heal it, doesnt mean that the damage is any less detrimental. I feel extremely worried about humanity when an individual dismisses the feelings of someone who is being verbally assaulted just because they are concerned that the perpetrator of such a crime (i.e. a premiership footballer no less) might get the punishment they rightly deserve for it.
Think about why you are so desperate to have morons like this representing the country regardless of their crimes. Do you think they can restore pride in what once was a great game – honestly? This is an obvious reflection of the severe decline in the quality and standard of British Football and the players therein whilst also being quite telling on your part that you would sacrifice the soul of one human being over another just because you know that whilst most arent really world class players, they are the best England has to offer.
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@Demerera
“So, when you go to work eco, would you expect to have to take verbal abuse from your colleagues?”
That’s a straw man. It’s not a comparable situation. You are not addressing the issue.
…
Screw it, I’ll play along and try to out-straw-man you.
OK, I’m in the office where I am taking verbal abuse. Meanwhile, you are in a similar workplace where people are punching you all the time. Whenever I’m insulted, somebody tries to knock your teeth out. Is my situation worse than yours? I don’t think so. Being physically injured is worse than being insulted.
Also, I love how you assume that the trash talk is one-sided and black players are basically perpetual victims.
“I feel extremely worried about humanity when an individual dismisses the feelings of someone who is being verbally assaulted just because they are concerned that the perpetrator of such a crime (i.e. a premiership footballer no less) might get the punishment they rightly deserve for it.”
Have I said they shouldn’t be punished? No.
They should be punished, but it should be proportional to the harm they have done. Calling someone “black” in Spanish (8-game ban) isn’t almost three times worse than breaking their leg and ruining their career (3-game ban).
P.S. I’m not English. I do not care how strong their national team is.
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@eco
That’s a straw man. It’s not a comparable situation. You are not addressing the issue.
I disagree – it is comparable, I used this example merely to contextualise the issue as, I find that often talk is cheap and unless a person can put themselves in the situation, they dont bother to properly engage with what is being said.
I used to work in an environment where there were people with mental health issues. It was very clear that abuse of the staff would not be tolerated. These are people who have issues with comprehension on a day to day basis and they were nevertheless still expected to abide by a code of conduct. Why is it too much to expect that footballers do the same and that if they dont, they should be punished? They are not being ‘fired’ as an individual would be in the examples I have been given, this is more like a verbal or written warning which hopefully should set a precedent should others think of doing the same. Of course physically harming another person with intent should be a punishable offence too but, to say that continual verbal abuse is less detrimental is equally wrong.
As footballers and often ambassadors for the country of their origin they are undertaking a role and are supposed to have a level of professionalism as would be expected in ANY work environment. You however are dismissing this as harmless ‘banter’. This is both remiss and negligent IMO. With regards to the examples given, I appreciate that there are 2 sides to every story however, the accusations of ‘racism’ within football are hardly isolated incidences are they.
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Not yet. I am not even current yet with the comments on the bm/ww thread.
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@abagond:
The 20th Anniversary of the LA Riots is coming up in April and I was wondering if you could do a post on the relations between Blacks and Asians. It’ll open up a can of worms I’m sure, but this is a topic that needs to be addressed. All my life, I’ve heard/talked to other Asians of various ethnicities who think Black people are generally not good people/troublemakers. The Asians I know are brainwashed by the media because they think blacks are a certain way. I don’t think so, but maybe it’s due to my upbringing with half-black cousins, black relatives (via marriage), black friends, and my overall positive experiences with black people.
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I am having problems inserting youtube videos into the comments sections. I am only able to get the URL link to appear. Could someone please show me how to youtube videos into the comments section?
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Satanforce:
The format is this (without the spaces!)
[ youtube = URL ]
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@Bulanik and Abagond
I was sing Abagond’s method – but with the spaces. Thank you both very much for your quick assistance.
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Science decodes ‘internal voices’
By Jason Palmer
Science and technology reporter, BBC News
Researchers have demonstrated a striking method to reconstruct words, based on the brain waves of patients thinking of those words.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-16811042
Oh great. If they’re admitting they’ve gotten this far in reading people’s thoughts in public they’ve probably got a lot further in secret science labs. Soon even your thoughts wont be your own. The Government will be able to tell if you’re thinking subversive thoughts and arrest you for thought crimes. Or maybe mischievous people may read your thoughts and then publish your embarrassing thoughts in public, or tell your boss or family member what you really think about them.
Even worse maybe this scenario: a room full of rich people in a movie theater watching a film and laughing until they cry, but not a Hollywood blockbuster, no, laughing at a poor persons actual life from their point of view with their recently deceased but artificially kept alive brain in a jar hooked up to the cinema screen where the people watching the movie can watch the unfortunate victim’s whole life, seeing everything they saw, hearing everything they heard, hearing everything they ever said, listening to all their internal voices; their thoughts of vulnerability, their hypocrisy, their malicious moments, their triumphs, their fears, and all their mishaps – reality TV on a whole new level.
Maybe it’s time for me to start work on my tinfoil hat.
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@Leigh
All my life, I’ve heard/talked to other Asians of various ethnicities who think Black people are generally not good people/troublemakers. The Asians I know are brainwashed by the media because they think blacks are a certain way.
I dont know the background of the LA riots but its interesting that you say this. My friends brother lives in Japan, he is fluent in the language and has a reverence for the culture…and the women :-). It seems though, that although he has lived there for at least 8 years or so, that he, as he often says, is looked down on with and treated with mistrust . He says that this is due to African people that live there that give ALL blacks a bad reputation for being rapists and thieves! He said the only thing that these guys recognise in terms of external influences, is American culture and they regard it most highly. As a British man who si Black but with an indeterminate racial background he said people dont really care about who he is. Even the ex-pats that live there reveal their racism both about BP and Asian people!!!!!!
Anyway, I am interested to see if Abagond does a post on this, what the background is and what commenters current take on it is.
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Seems to have worked this time it often goes wrong when I try to post embedded videos.
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@ Robert:
I fixed it for you – you forget the “=” between youtube and the URL. A common mistake.
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@ abagond I thought it was you fixing them sometimes but I wasn’t sure Thank you. I just copy and paste the embed code that begins <iframe, I will try again.
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@Robert
I remember this song well, it was when I started Secondary school – what memories does it conjure up for you?
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@ Demerera
Being an innocent kid without a care in the world. How about you?
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@Robert
Being at the school disco and getting asked to dance by a 5th former who many of the girls in my year liked but I had no interest in. We danced to Berlin Take my Breath Away and we swayed around and around and I felt really sick cos of ‘dancing’ in this way and uncomfortable cos they were giving me daggers lol.
We dont have to.. was popular at the time and puts me in mind of this…
What other songs remind you of your youth Robert?
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lol.
Michael Jacksons album Thriller especially PYT Billie Jean, Thriller (wore out the video player watching the Zombie dance).
The Wailer’s album Burnin’. My mother used to play it when I was a young child. I remember being fascinated by the phrase “Jah Jah” I loved Get up Stand up, Small Axe and I Shot the Sheriff, I remember being enthralled as a child when the song stopped and Bob sang “If I am guilty I will pay” and it echoed.
Five Star – The Slightest touch, System Addict and Rain or Shine.
Ya kid K- Rockin Under The Beat and Pump Up The Jam
Yazz – The Only Way Is Up
Mel and Kim – Respectable
Betty Boo – doing the do
Snap – The Power
New Kids On The Block – The Right Stuff lol
Vanilla Ice – Ice Ice Baby lol
Bill Medley and Jennifer Warnes – I’ve Had The Time Of My Life
Bros – When Will I be famous and I Owe You Nothing
Chaka khan – Aint’ Nobody and I Feel For You
How about you Demerera what songs remind you of your youth?
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@Demerera:
I can’t speak for the Japanese because I’m not Japanese, but from my understanding, the American influence is very strong in Japan. The images coming out of America regarding black people tends to be negative. If that’s what the Japanese over there see, then I’m not surprised by the racist attitudes. However, mind you, the Japanese are known especially around Asia for being racist to anyone non-Japanese.
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Abagond, will you be doing a post on Don Cornelius since he apparently committed suicide Wednesday morning?
“… Soul Train creator Don Cornelius was found dead at his Sherman Oaks, CA home at 4 AM PST from what police and TMZ are reporting as a self inflicted gunshot wound.”
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Five Star
All fall down, Love takes over, Cant wait another minute
Ya kid K- Rockin Under The Beat and Pump Up The Jam
The same
Mel and Kim – Respectable
Yup and ‘Showing Out’
Betty Boo – doing the do
Much preferred, Where are you Baby and also with the Beatmasters ‘Hey DJ I cant Dance to this
Snap – The Power
Do you remember ‘Toms Diner’ or ‘The Only Rhyme that bites’ and ’20 seconds to comply?’
New Kids On The Block – The Right Stuff lol
LOL, yeah, I remember this one too. My friend had the album
Vanilla Ice – Ice Ice Baby lol
NOooooo. Do you remember ‘I’d rather Jack?’
Bill Medley and Jennifer Warnes – I’ve Had The Time Of My Life
Most definately, I tried to get in the cinema to watch Dirty Dancing at the time and they said we werent old enough so we had to watch ‘Roxanne’ with Steve Martin instead 😦
Bros – When Will I be famous and I Owe You Nothing
My friend had a real pash for the brothers
Chaka khan – Aint’ Nobody and I Feel For You
Reminds me of Breakdance the film, Turbo, Ozone, Special K and Cup Cake lol
Dont forget Brother Beyond, Curiosity Killed the Cat, Johnny Hates Jazz, Hue and Cry, Wet Wet,Wet, Jive Bunny (OMFG) – any Stock Aitken and Waterman (which I loathed at the time).
I Lurved De La Soul, and their album 3 feet high and rising
S Express Theme from S-Express and Hey Music Lover
Bomb the Base Beat dis
Rob Base and DJ EZ Rock It takes two
Kid and Play and their album 2 Hype
Soul II Soul album Club Classics
Eric B and Rakim I know you got soul & Make em clap to this
Neneh Cherry’s album Raw Like Sushi
Rob and Raz ft Leila K Got to get I know, I know 🙂
Beastie Boys album ‘Licensed to Ill
LL Cool J I need Love
Sugarbear Don’t scandalise mine
I remember so vividly hearing Michael Jacksons ‘Off the Wall’ album for the first time. My mum had some American friends and it wasnt released in the UK yet. I had always liked the Jackson 5 and Michael separately, ‘One day in your life’ but, when I heard that album, I was hooked…
Embarrasingly, I could go back even further…
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@Ce
Abagond, will you be doing a post on Don Cornelius since he apparently committed suicide Wednesday morning?
My goodness, I only got to see the re-runs of Soul Train in the UK but I didnt realise that – RIP
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@Cece D
Abagond, will you be doing a post on Don Cornelius since he apparently committed suicide Wednesday morning?
My goodness, I only got to see the re-runs of Soul Train in the UK but I didnt realise that – RIP
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@Leigh
However, mind you, the Japanese are known especially around Asia for being racist to anyone non-Japanese.
Ah, so its not as simple as it first seems. I appreciate that you cannot speak personally on this subject but thanks for the insight nevertheless 🙂
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@Bulanik & Robert
I remember the Mowtown 25th Anniversary like yesterday. Michaels performance was out of this world at the time IMO, and I still think it stands the test of time.
My favourite Track(s) from Off The Wall are probably Dont stop til you get enough and It’s the falling in love
Like you Robert, from the Thriller album its PYT and also Human Nature and Beat It
Everyone at my school was mad keen on Duran Duran and Spandau Ballet, I didnt really follow either group then but in retrospect appreciate that it was music for its time
I had a huge crush on Kelvin from Musical Youth at the time and Ralph Tresvant from New Edition. I was most definately a child of the times as you can tell lol.
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@sam
Know both those tunes well, I have the Saturday Night Fever album but she – Yvonne had a hit called ‘Love me’ too which I remember for some unknown reason.
Anyone remember these…the second one was the first record I ever owned – no laughing please 🙂
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@abagond,
Is it more preferable to add video clips in the format above or does it really not make a difference whether they are links or properly embedded as I have just failed to do.
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Either is fine but my guess is that more people watch embedded videos than follow links.
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Ah, Billie Jean is probably my absolute favorite of all time of disco tunes. Still remember the video back in the day, and it still gives me the groovy vibes it did back then. An immortal song, hugely popular in Finland as well. I even had a Michael Jackson poster on my wall, among lots of movie posters, especially of James Bond movies. And oh, Donna Summer, lol!
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Sniff… not crying. Not crying at all…..Sniff…
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Oh Bumboclaat!!! That just finished in my playlist!!!!! Man, I’m gonna have to ban with website in my Firefox! And I just cut the intro from the Ken Boothe to use as a sample.
You wanna clash me!!! You won’t win!!!!
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Oooh I dont know Satanforce…
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrT5IVclf7M]
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@Sam
Ring my bell, yes! Afterwards I heard an interpretation that it referred to the clit-oral pleasure between two women, but maybe it’s just my imagination…
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Abagond, apolgies, can you fix it for me please
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@hannu
Afterwards I heard an interpretation that it referred to the clit-oral pleasure between two women, but maybe it’s just my imagination…
Tut. Trust you, theres always one isnt there….
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@Robert
Loved your list of songs! My favs!
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Yo Abagond, check out this post on the Grio:
http://m.thegrio.com/black-history/black-history-month-debunking-the-10-biggest-myths-about-black-history.php?page=1
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Mwahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!
I’ll take you both on!!!!!!!!
I” play Smokey Robinson in defense mode and Beres Hammond in attack
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@ Demerera
“Do you remember ‘Toms Diner’ or ‘The Only Rhyme that bites’ and ’20 seconds to comply?”
I remember The only rhyme that bites and 20 seconds to comply the chorus sounds a bit like the Ragga Twins Spliffhead.
Vanilla Ice – Ice Ice Baby lol
“NOooooo. Do you remember ‘I’d rather Jack?”
I know I shouldn’t have admitted that oh well it’s done now.
I didn’t remember I’d rather Jack until I watched in You Tube liked that too.
Bill Medley and Jennifer Warnes – I’ve Had The Time Of My Life
“Most definately, I tried to get in the cinema to watch Dirty Dancing at the time and they said we werent old enough so we had to watch ‘Roxanne’ with Steve Martin instead.”
Bummer lol.
Chaka khan – Aint’ Nobody and I Feel For You
“Reminds me of Breakdance the film, Turbo, Ozone, Special K and Cup Cake lol”
Yeah me too Ioved that movie Turbo was the man.
“I Lurved De La Soul, and their album 3 feet high and rising
S Express Theme from S-Express and Hey Music Lover
Bomb the Base Beat dis
Rob Base and DJ EZ Rock It takes two
Kid and Play and their album 2 Hype
Soul II Soul album Club Classics
Eric B and Rakim I know you got soul & Make em clap to this
Neneh Cherry’s album Raw Like Sushi
Rob and Raz ft Leila K Got to get I know, I know
Beastie Boys album ‘Licensed to Ill
LL Cool J I need Love
Sugarbear Don’t scandalise mine”
De La Soul are great I loved Buffalo Stance from Neneh Cherry I liked all of these too.
Embarrasingly, I could go back even further…
Thank you for making feel young. 🙂
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Great music being posted, here is one of my favorites:
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maybe this one will work.
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@Demerera
Nice especially like the chorus.
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@Bulanic,, thanks! Love the Isley Brothers,
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@ Peanut
I deleted it without reading it.
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Trojans? I’m a black man , I don’t fuck with Trojans. We use Magnums.
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@Bulanik
Lady T – The WHOLE Album It Must be Magic is fantastic. I have this on vinyl and the sleeve has the lyrics on too…
@Robert – Glad you liked it 🙂
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My favourite ska song
So Jimmy Cliff for you
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What do you guys think of Bishop Eddie Long anointing himself as KING?
http://rippdemup.com/2012/02/bishop-eddie-long-anointed-king-and-the-church-say-negro-please/
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@Cece D:
I’m not surprised.
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More on King Bishop Long: http://www.thegrio.com/news/bishop-eddie-long-is-crowned-king-in-gods-government.php
@Bulanik…..that video=FAIL….Don’t you love the grimace+silence in these folks expressions when asked how much they love/like black people? They wanted to give a different answer but remembered the cameras were on.
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It’s interesting that they are picking celebrities/famous people and not the people they actually know. If someone asked me about my favorite person (in general) my first thought would be a family member or a friend.
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Uh Oh It’s started snowing here they’re saying it’s going to be quite bad on the news. I wasn’t designed for weather like this 😦
@Demerera and Bulanik
Nice trip down memory lane. Money in my pocket and Maxi Priest and Shabba brought back some good memories.
I think that ship has already sailed it made me crash last night. Now we’ve posted the music who is going to brave enough to be the first one to post a video of themselves dancing to it?
*Smh* Seems like they regard Black history month as a joke in the States….. not surprising at all.
They get uncomfortable because they know their general thoughts about Black people are negative so they have to carefully screen all their thoughts before they speak. They find that process irritating and stressful that’s why many prefer not to have us around unless it’s to serve them of course. “I’ll take you to the candy shop” yes because 50 cent and “gangstas” represent all Black people of course.
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@Bulanik
LOL No that’s just history it’s not our fault we invented and discovered everything it’s not fair if you get a month we get a month!
Attempting to rewrite the Slave owning history of their Founding Fathers and now this. They really are something aren’t they?
His best song in my opinion.
Miles Davis – Virtuoso.
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@Robert
Now we’ve posted the music who is going to brave enough to be the first one to post a video of themselves dancing to it?
LOL Robert – that would be most entertaining and a revelation indeed. It would dispel the myths of the images that we all have of each other I think. To a degree, ‘pictures’ flicker through my mind of what other commenters look like. Some are easier to conjure up than others as some people allude to little bits and pieces about their physicality. In other words, I would love to put a face to the name but must admit, I would be extremely reluctant to do it myself though I confess to being curious as to what others imagine.
I think the weirdest thing would be though, if we were unwittingly commenting to people on here that we actually ‘know’ in real life lolol.
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@Demerera:
I always wonder what everyone looks like. I mean, I look at the names and I factor in their comments and all these faces pop into my head. One question. Do I look like a leigh204?
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@Leigh204
LOL. I guess I hadnt thought about whether your name ‘suits’ your or not. I say it this way as we can see you and your gorgeous self 🙂 . I knew a girl called Leah but obviously her name is spelt a different way to yours but is pronounced the same way.
Another factor in this is when people have monikers – some are self explanatory to a degree but others are more ambiguous…
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@Demerera:
Ah, you are far too kind. 🙂 I’ve put up pics of myself from time to time on different forums. And once in a while, I’ll have some fool tell me I’m vain or I’m fishing for compliments (when I’ve said nothing.)Wth? Anyway, I think I look like a Leigh. It’s an Asian thang, I think. 😛
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@Leigh
And once in a while, I’ll have some fool tell me I’m vain or I’m fishing for compliments (when I’ve said nothing.)Wth?
Reading between the badly drawn lines, I think responses like that speak for themselves in that generally, it is only the people who are deemed ‘attractive’ are considered vain…:-)
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I have no idea what “Bulanik” means, but just based on her writings, her mind definitely must be like a beautiful, vast garden.
And women with minds like that always look good to me. 😉
But yeah, I do imagine her as someone really nice looking, quite elegant with warm, inquisitive eyes, who appreciates finer things, takes good care of herself and people she cares about. So, she must look absolutely lovely, hmmmm… 😉
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@Demerera
lol yes it would be, maybe one day if I get drunk enough. I picture a Black woman with a smile on her face – you come across as a happy person to me.
Ha ha yeah unless it’s someone with a grudge and embarrassing stories with the pictures to prove them.
So what’s yours a reference to the cake?
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lol
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@Robert
lol yes it would be, maybe one day if I get drunk enough. I picture a Black woman with a smile on her face – you come across as a happy person to me.
LOL. I wonder what makes me come across in that way? Should I dispel the myth? Well, I would say you are half right…
Demerera said: Another factor in this is when people have monikers – some are self explanatory to a degree but others are more ambiguous…
Robert said:- So what’s yours a reference to the cake?
Mine is boringly obvious if you think about it…;-)
@Hannu
I agree, the name Bulanik does not conjure up any obvious images for me though clearly, it does for you… 😉
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@Demerera
Well, I need my imagination for my work, but sometimes it goes wandering around… wanting to imagine beautiful things…
And I agree with Robert, you Demerera definitely sound as someone with a fun personality, and you probably are great to hang around with! We could giggle like girls, you, me and Beautifulanik. I think I’d dry to take a peek of her cleavage, tho! 😀
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@Hannu
Tut tut. You men and bosoms/cleavage, LOL. How often do us females have to say ‘hello, talk to me – look into my eyes’ LMAO.
I do like to have fun I admit though on a day to day, doubt as if I come across like that….though maybe I have a little twinkle in my eyes 😉
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@Bulanik
OMG. A few years ago you and I could have gone out on the pull LOL. Though I fear that people would have thought of me as your humble lady in waiting due to my unpolished accent and you, sounding so dignified and refined (re our conversation on Transaclantic accents) LOL
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@ Bulanik
Touché.
I couldn’t seem to find the oven gloves anywhere Lmao.
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2 Whtie male elementary school teachers in Los Angeles, CA were arrested for molesting over a dozen Hispanic kids aged 6 – 12. Irony is….White males don’t discriminate when it comes to molesting kids.
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“.White males don’t discriminate when it comes to molesting kids.”
**************************************************
Apparently the same can be said for white females.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1355/is_15_111/ai_n27208405/
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And it’s incredulous that a lot of these white molesters get a slap on the wrist. It’s disgusting.
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And what’s worse is that they actually enjoy the slap of their wrist. They slap their wrists all day sometimes.
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Many Americans are now rejecting the standard race labels:
http://www.reporternews.com/news/2012/feb/04/census-1-in-14-avoid-standard-race-labels/
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Many of us now know about the formation of Sundown (all white) Towns scattered across America – circa 1860s – 1920s.
THIS …
“There is a stereotype of Black fathers being absent and bad because I remember whenever my dad would come to events at my school…the white teachers would always seem so SHOCKED that my father was not only in my life, but actively involved in my life. I can’t tell you how many teachers would ask me “who is this?” When they would see my dad picking me up and stuff…and just be so shocked that it was my father and he was actually in my life…”
… GROSS IGNORANCE of the lives of black people – to an overwhelming degree – was/is caused by white folks’ deliberate and purposed banishment of African-Americans from what were once mixed-communities and subsequently changed to ALL WHITE towns and counties. Many of which STILL exist even to this day.
Abagond has a post somewhere about this
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Obama exchange with Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer reveals his testy side.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/obama-exchange-with-arizona-gov-jan-brewer-reveals-his-testy-side/2012/01/26/gIQA8mU3TQ_story.html
http://digitaljournal.com/article/318607
*Eyeroll* Apparently she felt intimidated and a “little threatened” . So threatened that she waved a finger right in his face. Witnesses have said Obama was calm throughout. The “white womans tears” and the pure innocent little White woman being threatened by the “big Black brute” rears its ugly head yet again. I’m surprised she didn’t say that he made sexual advances toward her as well.
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Much respect to President Obama. I’m sorry, but if she did the finger waving thing in my face, I would most likely smack that finger away or smack her in the face. That is so rude.
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@leigh204;
“That is so rude.”
You’re right. She was very disrespectful to the man and to the Office. That image brings to mind that congressman who yelled, “You lie!” during the President’s State of the Union address back in ’09.
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Brewer is just the Wicked Witch of the West. Maybe splashing some (holy) water on her will end her reign of racial supremacy.
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I wish Obama were a bit more threatening! As it stands, the only time i could even imagine him being aggressive was if someone threatened his beautiful wife and daughters. Otherwise, I think he is about as threatening as Harvard university makes one! LOL.
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@ bulanik: Yes, there has been black ballet dancers in USA fro decades, if I remember correctly. I remember seeing some back in the 70’s at least. For some reason blacks in so called High Arts, or Fine Arts, are forgotten despite their success for example in opera. Weird, right?
Desmond Dekker? Great! Jimmy Cliff? Great! I liked the movie Harder They Come because of its gritty realistic way of portraying that life, nothing fancy pants romantic, despite some obvious short comings, like budget. And the song, that is a master piece!
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@Bulanik
Thanks, that was quite beautiful. I know next to nothing about classical ballet (some of the score, of course), but the movements were really nice, and I paid attention to how the dancer stomped her feet at some points, which I suppose is totally uncustomary.
In general I feel that this kind of hybrids are extremely valuable and an enriching way of creating art and especially in handling classical pieces that have been lifted on snobbish pedestal, not only beyond criticism, but more importantly mentally elevated away from the reach -or interest- of an average citizen/consumer. Maybe this way it could be possible to make older art forms more interesting and accessible to people who are normally not exposed to it.
There are people who of course want to keep art and entertainment separate, how else could they feel special and more important if it wasn’t for their prejudice to enjoy ‘higher’ culture and look down on the uneducated masses with trivial tastes?
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@bulanik: I can not see any reason why black artist could or should not excel in the fine arts too, they have done it the past, but perhaps we live times when American Idols and Big Brothers and reality tv eats everybodys brains and people forget the fine arts for what they are: expression.
Just listen some stuff of Beethoven, that is as heavy and hard as any rock. Some ballet moves are way up there with the most acrobatic hip hop. Just look at paintings. There is classical stuff that could be really wild as street art as well.
Perhaps some do not want blacks in these fields? Perhaps some blacks look at these arts as being white? I do not think so and would very much like to see more black performers in ballet and classical music. It would a thrill to hear black conductor taking on Sibelius Finlandia.
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Hmmm. A very interesting developement at Blog Abagond, or so it seems . . . .
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@Parfum Bleu
Hmmm. A very interesting developement at Blog Abagond, or so it seems . . . .
I’m just catching up – whats ‘appening?
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@Bulanik
Thanks! That was an especially interesting blend of music!
@Peanut
What did you think of that particular piece Bulanik posted? Just meanwhile you beg for Abagond’s attention and affection..
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eh some type of problem with a video referrer was uh led zeppelin friends and uh the second song was gap band you dropped the bomb on me
ah should abagond meet me in nyc i would like to buy the dude a beer
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ok here i go wordpress very insecure like the first time i logged in to you blog it was a problem on fb it acknowledged i had logged in from ohio, usa, and that is fur sure i never did secondly not every white person is out to get you maybe you could make some new friends that is all
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you welcome to invite me facebook.com/v8driver i would be happy to accept you as a friend
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whatever dude i got issues come out ny nj philly i got you ttyl
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CPAC Set to Host White Nationalist Leader
“Republican presidential candidates Mitt Romney, Rick Santorum and Newt Gingrich, along with several Republican senators and congressmen, are set to appear at the American Conservative Union’s Conservative Political Action Conference, but the GOP brass aren’t the only ones set to be at CPAC. As we’ve previously reported, CPAC will play host to anti-gay groups such as the Family Research Council, the birther leader of WorldNetDaily, and the Apartheid-nostalgic Youth for Western Civilization.
But that isn’t all.
Following speeches from Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell and Rep. Michele Bachmann, CPAC is hosting the panel “The Failure of Multiculturalism: How the pursuit of diversity is weakening the American Identity” with Peter Brimelow, the founder and head of VDARE.com.
VDARE is a White Nationalist website, run by Brimelow, which frequently publishes the works of anti-Semitic and racist writers and is named after Virginia Dare, who is believed to be the first child of English parents born in the Americas. Brimelow, an immigrant from Great Britain, expresses his fear of the loss of America’s white majority, blames non-white immigrants for social and economic problems and urges the Republican Party to give up on minority voters and focus on winning the white vote. He also said that a New York City subway is the same as an Immigration and Naturalization Service waiting room, “an underworld that is not just teeming but also almost entirely colored.”
VDARE has published the work of people like Robert Weissberg, who says that black and Hispanic students are responsible for problems in the American education system, Marcus Epstein, the Youth for Western Civilization leader who karate-chopped a black woman after calling her a “n****r” (he later pled guilty to assault), and J. Philippe Rushton of the eugenicist Pioneer Fund.”
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/cpac-set-host-white-nationalist-leader
Yet we have Black conservatives on this site who will still insist that the Republican party are the lesser of the two evils for Black people in the U.S. and the party they should support, because unlike the Liberals and the Democratic party they are upfront with their racism and hatred for Black people, when the real reason they like the Republican party is because the right-wing philosophy of greed is a virtue, the poor are entirely to blame for their poverty because they are lazy and feckless, cutting programs that help the poor cures their laziness, bootstrap myths, and the equating of morality with financial wellbeing appeals to them because such sophistries allow them to circumvent their consciences and be greedy, mean and selfish guilt free, while still allowing them to see themselves as good people.
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@Robert
Hey Mi Hermano – how goes it? Will come back with some choons soon. Hope you’re enjoying the chilly weather – bbbrrrrrrrrrrrrr
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@Robert
Re: CPAC
I heard about Peter Brimelow and his white nationalist agenda at CPAC. What’s next? David Duke? Thanks for providing the additional info. It’s unfortunate that CPAC is allowing him to be one of their panelists, but I must say I’m not surprised.
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@Demerera
Hey Demerera, it goes ok thanks how you doing?
Oh Yeah sure! I’m enjoying it like a blind date with the now banned Lara from this site. How you enjoying it? lol
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@ Demerera
Never heard Is this the future before, cool tune.
If I try to do the butterfly and bogle I might do myself a mischief I think lol.
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@Nom De Plume
They’re probably lining him up for next year, but Black people should still vote for the Republicans so the Democratic party doesn’t take their votes for granted. *rolleyes*
They’re not even bothering to pretend to not be what they are anymore.
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@Robert
Oh Yeah sure! I’m enjoying it like a blind date with the now banned Lara from this site. How you enjoying it? lol
LMAO – I KNOW that Lara would have enjoyed a date with a dashing man like yourself – thats what she craved. She saw any BW who posted on here as a barrier to getting what she wanted hence her guiless comments – thats just how she rolls lol
Never heard the Gap Band tune before? Dont think it charted very high but for some reason I remember it being used to play out TOTP – Maybe when Dixie Peach was hosting though I couldnt say for definate – remember him? Please tell me you do (I dont wanna be that old yet), and yes, that’s what he called himself though I know it is hair pomade cos my mum used to use it in my hair lol.
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@abagond:
I don’t know if you read an earlier comment of mine on this thread, but is it possible for you to do a post on blacks and asians’ tenuous relations? You see, I knew from the getgo that blacks weren’t these horrible people made out to be by whites. I saw the injustices done to blacks maybe because I have black relatives (through marriages) and half-black cousins. I wasn’t falling for the bs. I can clearly see whites pitting asian people against blacks.
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@ Demerera
Lara was looking for a Sugar Daddy and hated Black women because she felt they were getting all the Sugar Daddies and were the reason why she couldn’t find one who was interested in her on that website lol.
Yeah I remember the Gap Band tune from TOTP, but I don’t remember Dixie sorry lol.
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@ Leigh
That would make an excellent topic. Thanks.
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http://www.facebook.com/V8Driver
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@Bulanik
Top Cat, you mean the one who’s close friends get to call him T.C 🙂
Have you ever seen a Panther that is Pink – Think? 😉
Metal Mickey
The Muppet Show – How could I forget that. I had a t-shirt an everything.
I guess no-one knows what TISWAS stood for then???
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Sing For mash get smaSh
LOL
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@Bulanik
I think Demerera is the one who brought them up but I will accept praise wherever I can get it 🙂
No, but I like it, smooth.
On another more serious note, I found a good article today on the persecution of the sick and disabled that is going on here. As history shows us this kind of thing never just stops with the scapegoated group. Once this kind of sickness becomes acceptable in a society it spreads.
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-24033624-disabled-are-at-the-mercy-of-ministers-and-media.do
This one is good too.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/feb/08/disabled-people-abuse-peoples-panel
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@Demerera
In her rage against Black women she then told on herself again and said she watched Black women in p*rn movies to try and figure out why the Sugar Daddies were choosing them and not her. I had to laugh.
“Starsky and Hutch (though I was very young and mainly remember the car and huggy bear”)
Same here.
Wonder Woman
Her spinning around was the highlight for me.
Happy Days
Used to love this. But a grown man hanging around highschool kids really isn’t cool.
Esteban and the Mysterious cities of gold (loved that theme tune)
One of my favourite cartoons, had some of the best times of my childhood watching that. The illustrations were very sunny and bright. I loved that theme tune too, it had quite advanced themes for a cartoon.
The A Team
Mr .T was the man. The conflict between him and mad Murdoch was funny.
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@ Bulanik yeah exactly that is the poem it reminds me of too. 😦
The Smash advert aliens laughing still makes me laugh.
“Have you ever seen a Panther that is Pink – Think?”
I always though Linford Christie looked like the Pink Panther.
The open thread is starting to remind me of my first computer the Commodore 64, it’s taking almost as long as the games did to load.
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What do you guys think about this story? Abagond, does it tie into your black men/white women thread?
http://cdn.mediatakeout.com/users/realtalc/119055/white-women-livid-over-post-of-hottest-black-women-post-from-black-men-on-whitewomenblackmencom-lmao
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@Bulanik
Re the Poem:- Hopefully not prophetic but certainly apt and poignant if we continue on in this vane.
@Robert
I will look at the link a little later, just about to get the troops fed and watered. BTW, Commodore 64, how about the Atari and a nice game of ‘Pong’, now that is about as far as I got in terms of computers and gaming lol
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@Robert
Disabled are at the mercy of ministers and media
Having looked at this article, my observations are the following:- A few years ago, I worked for an organisation that looked at ‘supporting’ individuals that were claiming disability benefits. This was part of a government incentive and the upshot was that this was a way to help individuals get back in to work. The focus was supposed to be on understanding the barriers, real and perceived, and breaking them down to enable people to be personally empowered. Now, in my time of working there, just over 2 years, I encountered so many inspirational and determined individuals. One particular lady stays with me to this day having been diagnosed with terminal cancer (her body was riddled with tumours) she nevertheless maintained a steadfast belief in her faith which kept her sane. She and I used to have quite a dialogue and so when my employers ‘pulled the plug’ so to speak and alluded to the fact that my job would be in danger if I maintained contact with her, you can imagine how concerned I was for her and how bereft she was when I told her (we still did keep touch but it had to be discreet of course, those f*ckers were watching my every move. I am certainly no modern day saint, but, this lady took solace from our chats and I for one was glad for what little I could do. Their motivation for barring our chat was nasty and unpleasant – after a series of ‘incident’s’ in the organisation, not just with me but with colleagues too, I confronted them and took a grievance out. If you didnt ‘play the game’ then you were targeted with little care of the impact on individuals, in fact it was a hostile environment plagued with bullying and humiliation. They wanted to ‘hurt’ me by not allowing me to keep in touch with this woman and damage me professionally – they knew I was empathetic yet shrewd when it came to talking to those who had just ‘given up’. It wasnt ‘my job’ so to speak to provide this type of service to our clients but, I used to wait until my shift was over to speak to her and she used to call in on our free-phone number so I was not incurring any charges to the company.
It sounds melodramatic but these a**holes were so awful, they would do anything they could to exact revenge. In the end, I am grateful I found another job. The whole situation was really becoming detrimental to my mental state.
The point I am trying to make here is that in this instance, the staff at ground level were treated like shite whilst the people in the higher echelons took care of themselves and exploited any aspect of the system that they could for personal gain. There was NO care as to how this filtered down to help those most vulnerable. Often the staff were so browbeaten that they struggled to maintain and focus on the clients. The ‘project’ lasted for 3 years from start to finish (it was supposed to be reviewed at this time and go on for another 3 years at least if successful) and was a shambles because the individuals who implemented the project, gave the reins to those who had no real business being involved with people who were often at the mercy of society due to their disability. This was particularly for those with mental health issues – or the ‘unseen’ illnesses that many of our client base had.
Therefore, I am not surprised about this article. A few years ago, promises were made to reduce the amount of people claiming disability benefit and whilst schemes like the one I was involved in are admirable in theory, if they are managed badly, which this one was, there is little to NO chance of helping those that need it. This article is a smokescreen IMO to detract from the fact that millions of pounds have been invested and wasted and all down to poor implementation, appalling choice in management from executive level down, poor training at staff level and overall poor Judgement and foresight by the government. They have to shift the spotlight from themselves dont they and who better to shift it on if not the most vulnerable sector of society.
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@ Demerera
A friend had the Atari and pong, a simple but surprisingly fun game.
Thank you for sharing your account of your experiences working with a disability organisation and your perspective, it sounds like the organisation was a cesspool of corruption at the top.
“Unum has denied that it stands to gain from the reforms, even though it launched a major media campaign this year just as the coalition government began a three-year programme to reassess about 1.5 million existing IB claimants through a new, stricter test, the work capability assessment (WCA).
But now a detailed memo has emerged, which was submitted to the Commons work and pensions committee in 2002 and was written by Joanne Hindle, Unum’s corporate services director.
The memo also says Unum was “actively engaged” with the government on sharing best practice on returning disabled people to work, while its executives had “met with [government] officials to help better understand the nature of the IB casebook, and to discuss how our commercial experience and expertise might be more widely applied”.
Further information has emerged this week suggesting that Unum had influence within the Department for Work and Pensions as the government was drawing up its proposals for IB reform.
Unum were so corrupt in their home country America that they have had to pay out millions of dollars in compensation and fines, were branded “Disability Denial Factories” and banned from doing business in many states.
http://victimsofatoscorruption.wordpress.com/2011/11/28/new-evidence-of-corporate-giants-influence-on-welfare-reform/
Andrew Lansley, the shadow health secretary, is being bankrolled by the head of one of the biggest private health providers to the NHS, The Daily Telegraph can disclose.
Mr Nash, a private equity tycoon, also manages several other businesses providing services to the NHS and stands to be one of the biggest beneficiaries of Conservative policies to increase the use of private health providers.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/6989408/Andrew-Lansley-bankrolled-by-private-healthcare-provider.html
Having successfully all but destroyed Incapacity benefit, Unum adverts have recently been appearing all over British tv advertising “Backup plan” private health insurance. Our corrupt politicians having seen how awful the healthcare system in the U.S. is, have decided to privatise the NHS and import that system here, because they despise the idea of Universal Healthcare for ideological reasons and because it will make them and their friends huge profits.
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“I was unable to work for a time due to mental health problems resulting from being raped. I had next to no ability to concentrate, astonishly poor memory, mood swings, dissociation blah blah blah… Standard PTSD basically. Being forced to be around other people made me something of a danger to them as well as myself.
I had a letter telling me that I was fit to work. So my benefits were stopped. Not only nothing to live off, but every few days another letter from the DWP with more information I’d need for my imminent return to work. Every few days another letter telling me I had nothing to complain about.
I had been told that what I said wasn’t true, that I wasn’t as ill as I claimed. It shouldn’t be difficult to imagine what effect this had on me, given the event that had put me in that state in the first place. At least one evening out of every two was spent on the phone to the Samaritans getting talked out of killing myself. My doctor and the staff at the JobCentre were powerless to help me, because my mental state was purely reactive. For the first time since my assault I was driven to self-harm. A kind acquaintance came round to my flat and took all my knives away.
(In case you’re wondering, I think it affected me so badly because until then I’d dismissed the rapist as just one nutcase, whose actions were at least illegal. My experience with Atos made me feel like a Government agency was saying that rape is ok because it doesn’t affect the victim. Is that institutionalised evil?)
I was so, so close to dying. As it was, it took me 10 months to recover to the same point as I was at before my medical, and even then I had problems with my sleep and with getting nervous even in my own home that I hadn’t had before the Atos fiasco.”
Jobcentre staff ‘sent guidelines on how to deal with claimants’ suicide threats’
“Absolutely nobody has ever seen this guidance before, leading staff to believe it has been put together ahead of the incapacity benefit and disability living allowance cuts.”
The employee, who asked to remain anonymous, said: “We were a bit shocked. Are we preparing ourselves to be like the Samaritans? The fact that we’ve dealt with the public for so many years without such guidance has made people feel a bit fearful about what’s coming.”
Julie Tipping, an appeals officer for Disability Solutions, represents claimants who try to overturn decisions made following work capability assessment tests that they are fit for work.
She says that in the last year, two of her clients have made “real attempts” at suicide after a decision was made that they were fit for work. Both were taken to hospital and subsequently sectioned.
Another jobcentre adviser said: “People have been coming off sickness benefits and thrown onto jobseeker’s allowance. It’s problematic because some customers are clearly not fit to work, and they are clearly very distressed.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/may/08/jobcentre-staff-guidelines-suicide-threats
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@Bulanik
I have not yet read all the the links relating to this issue, but am I correct in thinking that it is most often the mentally ill who are being treated in this way?
Yes you are correct in your assumptions. Mental illness is not something that can be ‘fixed’ with bandages and a plaster, it is not something that is ‘tangible’ that can be treated. Many suffer in their own confused world. Projects like the one I was talking about were supposed to help and support them but merely left many feeling vulnerable and afraid.
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Whitney Houston dead at 48. RIP Whitney Houston, the best, most talented singer ever.
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The more I read this site the more I realize that it’s mainly a forum for insecure individuals to attempt to instill insecurity into others on account of their race or even gender. The “one drop rule”, “HBD”, etc . – all the same. It’s important not to get worked up over what is said here and not to attribute the hurtful attitudes expressed to entire populations (e.g. whites, blacks).
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Wow, I can’t believe Whitney’s gone. She had this beautiful voice I’ve always admired. How sad. RIP Ms. Houston. 😦
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@Bulanik
And how do these policies affect BP particularly?
We could look at any of the posts that Abagond puts on here and make an educated guess that perceptions of BP in the main have a detrimental effect, therefore, the effects on BP in the mental health care system become manifested tenfold. Maybe Robert might be able to shed some light on specific cases??
Would I be right in thinking that mental health issues (plus knock-on effects) are going to strike these groups disproportionately?
I dont have any statistics to substantiate this, merely observations in that even in the black community, people do not understand depression and the variations of mental illness. They ‘manage’ them and ‘cope’ with them but, my experience is the BP do not want to go to the GP and ‘discuss their business’ with people, so, whilst they try to do the best they can, they may not necessarily be getting the resources they need and the support they could have and therefore the treatment they should be having to enable them to get help.
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@Bulanik
I cant watch the clip – its disabled. Can you direct me to it any other way?
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@abagond:
I know this is your blog, but I was hoping if it would it be okay to create a chatroom on behalf of your blog? It would be called “abagond”. People can drop by and discuss racial issues or whatever if they wish. It’s free and it’s also moderated. Would that be fine with you?
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Darn! It didn’t.
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@ Bulanik
“Over 80 percent of the African and Caribbean community that are in work are employed in the public sector. They were the last in and the first to go. As a result we are seeing Black women and men being made redundant in droves, the consequent effects will be devastating. Poverty breeds crime and in the UK for every 1,000 White people, there are 1.2 people in jail, for Asians that figure is 2.4, for Black people the figure is seven. Put simply, British institutional racism is the most polite and insidious type of racism you will find anywhere in the world.” – Lee Jasper
That punk Suarez was at it again yesterday.
“Luis Suarez refused to shake Patrice Evra’s hand ahead of his side’s clash with Manchester United. Police had to separate players from both Manchester United and Liverpool as emotions spilled over into violence in the tunnel at Old Trafford.”
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@Robert
Ironically, I also have personal experience of this too as I work within the NHS and am privy to what is happening with the PCT’s. I don’t know if you watched Question Time this week but this topic has been raised here for the past couple of weeks. Anyway, One of the panelists talked about the definite need for reform but stressed that there were things of far more critical need to be addressed in the current economic situation. My interpretation of this is that it is being implemented far too quickly and that ‘we’ the public will end up paying greatly if caution is not exercised.
Overall, the ‘Reforms’ are supposed to be saving money but, the initial outlay is huge and it will be a long time, if ever before this will be re-couped. No-one is taking any notice of the fact that so far, this reform appears to be more to do with the infrastructure within the organisation and that the real heart of the NHS, the facilities, provisions etc, anything that is at the heart of patient care will be an afterthought. This is just my opinion as I have heard little to promote the improvement in services for the individual and how this will reassure or empower people personally though my initial understanding of this was that this was the intention. I am sure they think that sorting out the bureaucracy will eliminate any staffing/facility issues at ground level and OK, there is a point that the way that people at Director level are treated in comparison to ‘day to day’ staff is hugely disparate, but the Primary and most important factor as we all know is that there needs to be significant investment in improving the services/level of service, equipment, care etc to the everyday person. I am hugely concerned that this is going to be lost in amongst the Clinical Commissioning Groups (http://www.phorcast.org.uk/page.php?page_id=259) which is a new pathway for health care and inexperience and downright ignorance in some cases, will effectively flush the £100 million given to improve services down the pan (http://mediacentre.dh.gov.uk/2012/01/16/nhs-to-get-100m-cash-injection-to-improve-services/). I only say this because my understanding thus far certainly at local level, is that some GP’s are not comprehending the extent and the responsibility that the PCT’s have undertaken over the years.
Lets hope that going forward, this does NOT mirror the situation of UNUM in the example you have given and that they have learned lessons from this!
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@ Demerera
“Lets hope that going forward, this does NOT mirror the situation of UNUM in the example you have given and that they have learned lessons from this!”
I hope so. I have no problem with genuine reform but I don’t trust the Tories with the NHS or with anything really. I believe that what Daniel Hannan Tory MEP said on Fox News “the NHS is a “60 year mistake that I wouldn’t wish on anyone” is how they really feel about it and I believe that they intend to destroy and privatise it by stealth. David Cameron promised that there would be “no top down reorganizations of the NHS” during the election campaign and used his dead disabled son to reassure people that he could be trusted on the NHS and he is now breaking his promise by implementing these “reforms”.
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What say you, abagond? Chatroom or no chatroom? If you say, yes, I have something already in mind. Please oh please. Pretty please? With sugar on top?
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In case you missed what I had suggested earlier, abagond. 😀
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@ Leigh
No thanks. If it has my name on it I want to be able to control and currently I am stretched pretty thin.
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@Abagond:
I understand. However, if you don’t mind, may I create a chatroom of my own, but with some made up name? It’s kind of like your blog. This chatroom will be a place for civil discussion for people who want to talk about racial matters. I would like to invite people from here. Would that be ok with you?
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That is fine.
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@ All
The embedded videos on this page has made it almost unusable by me and probably most others: it loads very slowly and has crashed my browser twice.
I am going to delete all the videos, past, present and future, on this thread.
Thank you.
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@abagond:
Really?! That’s awesome! Thank you! Thank you! 😀
Alright people. If anyone is serious about certain topics that matter to them, no matter what it is, please come to this new chat I created. Trolls will not be tolerated. You have to register first so no one can impersonate you. I hope this works out well. 😀
http://mibbit.com/?channel=%23chitchat&server=irc.mibbit.net
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Oops, I forgot to mention where you should sign up first. My sincere apologies to all.
http://www.mibbit.com/signup.html
After you sign up, you will be directed to another part with different channels.
The channel you want is named “chitchat”.
Please type this channel to enter the chatroom: #chitchat.
I can’t wait to see you guys there. 😀
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Thanks for being understanding, I basically had another nervous breakdown, feeling sad it is hard to reach a common ground sometimes.
-tc
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Hey Abagond,
I saw this last night. It may interest you.
http://www.slaverybyanothername.com/
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I almost forgot. Happy Valentine’s Day everyone! Whether you’re single or with a significant other, spend your time with the people you care about. Love is where it’s at. 😀
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@leigh204:
Thanks. U2.
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@ Leigh
😉
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Leigh204, um, we need more people at your chitchat room. Umm, just a suggestion, perhaps more posters will drop by if they know that they are anonymous.
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@Nom De Plume:
@Matari:
Thank you. 😀
@Jack in the Box:
With this particular chat site, registering your screen name (the one you use on abagond), helps prevent others from impersonating you. I’ve been on a few chatroom sites where I’ve been impersonated. (Creepy, huh?) Also, this helps with managing trolls. I hope I’ve provided the answer you needed. Btw, it was really great chatting with you. Let’s do it again sometime. 😀
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I second this! I think that would make for a very interesting post.
@ Abagond
I’ve noticed that, when I have posted links to videos on youtube, it automatically embeds the video in the thread and that does slow things down a lot. When I read the old open thread, it always took ages to load. Do you know if there’s a way to keep a video link as just a link?
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@ doug
As for the issue of race and IQ:
One: First, you have to define what race is, if it actually exists, how many races there are and who exactly is a part of each race. Also, acknowledging people who are mixed race as a separate category.
Two: You must establish that IQ is quantifiable in a written test form.
Three: You must establish a test that is unbiased to all groups of human beings.
Four: Tests must be given by people who are completely unbiased to their results (good luck on that one).
Five: Tests must be scored by similarly unbiased individuals.
Six: If dependencies are found, an effort must be made to determine the EXACT cause – social, physical, cultural or otherwise.
Seven: Tests should be used to advance Humanity, not manipulate, create scapegoats or destroy ethnic/racial groups.
Once you provide proof and sources of proof of these seven issues, then we can talk about race and IQ. If not, I have nothing more to say to you.
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That would be Skip Gates.
We actually used rooftop farming for poor people in the garrisons. This allowed us to beat the problem of urban tree canopies.
I personally feel it is not just racism, but a quota system that encourages police to harass the weak and defenseless. I also believe that the fix lies at the Federal level, not at the state or city. Unless Federal has a stake in the prison industrial complex
You will notice that actual criminals are arrested and tried for publicity purposes, but innocent people are killed and framed.
Such a situation would be more relevant in a country like Jamaica, however, de-industrialsation due to neo-liberal policies has had the same result as in the US. Thus there are no more factories. That is why I will go o at a later time to suggest job certifications, and industries that black men can aspire to, even with a prison conviction.
And this is why I hate rappers and other entertainment coons with the heat of a thousand suns. You’re a damn millionaire, and you’ve never even bought out a police precinct, much less lobbied your local politician. No. You’re on mixtapes,
cooning yourself like a damn monkey. Phuck these clowns. And the BET owner giving Al Sharpton money for his presidential run sure as hell dont count.
Look at the conservatives. That’s not a political activism, that’s political machinery. An ideology united around business owners, public intellectuals and political and economic think-tanks. That’s how you make a movement in the 21st century. Not this Marcus Garvey MLK crap.
I will continue to post my ideas at random in the Open Thread.
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Abagond could you post something about this term i’ve been hearing? it is “anti racist is anti white.” It seems like it would be an interesting topic.
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@Robert
I believe that what Daniel Hannan Tory MEP said on Fox News “the NHS is a “60 year mistake that I wouldn’t wish on anyone” is how they really feel about it and I believe that they intend to destroy and privatise it by stealth.
Yeah, I bet he’s got Private Health care so he can afford to make those kind of damning statements cant he. *SMH*
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This aired in the U.K. on Monday
Poverty In America.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73UBl68icjw)
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@ Abagond I only posted the link and it embedded itself.
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Hi Abagond,
Regarding the Tuskegee Airmen: Your statement that the Tuskegee Airmen were the first to escort American heavy bombers to Berlin is not true. For the record, the first American full-scale daylight bombing mission to Berlin was flown on 6 March 1944 and the bombers were escorted by American fighter planes based in England. The Tuskegee Airmen/332nd Fighter Group were based in Italy and in March were not yet equipped with the long range P-51 Mustang. At the time they were flying equally important missions in the Mediterranean theater of operations. The 332nd began receiving the new Mustang Fighters in June 1944 and by July began flying long range bomber escort missions. It was between July 1944 and May 1945 that they were nicknamed “Red Tailed Angels” by the bomber crews they were protecting.
I’d also like to say that I am flattered that you have used my painting which features my late friend Lt. Charles P. Bailey in his P-51 nicknamed “My Buddy” which was what he called his father. The painting is entitled “The Shepherd” and it would be nice if you could include the title in your caption.
Blue Skies,
Troy White http://www.starduststudios.com
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@ Troy White
I updated the post accordingly:
I love your painting. Thank you for painting it and allowing me to use it.
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@Robert:
Thanks for the UK vid. It put a different face on poverty in America. American media would have selectively shown mostly poor blacks. This would leave the impression on those who don’t think for themselves that blacks are shiftless, lazy folks who don’t want to work or otherwise “help themselves.”
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I didnt realise that Chris Eubank’s son was a boxer until tonight….
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This is interesting, yet not so surprising.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/27/intelligence-study-links-prejudice_n_1237796.html
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This question is for Mik:
What is racism?
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brothawolf
What is racism? racism is when a person or people dont like the other culture and are not willing to accept mixed racial kids and people. Racism is when the blacks say we need the one drop rule racism is when the whites will disown there children if there children marry black racism is when blacks tell there kids you are white and black but you must identify with ONLY black Racism is when a jewish family wont allow there children to marry christains and and celebrate both religions. Racism is when my nephews say there not chinese because its freaky. thats racism
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What is racism? racism is when a person or people dont like the other culture and are not willing to accept mixed racial kids and people. Racism is when the blacks say we need the one drop rule racism is when the whites will disown there children if there children marry black racism is when blacks tell there kids you are white and black but you must identify with ONLY black Racism is when a jewish family wont allow there children to marry christains and and celebrate both religions. Racism is when my nephews say there not chinese because its freaky. thats racism
And there you have it, ladies and gentlemen!
Mik, racism is when society produces a system of institutions that oppress groups of people because of the false concept of race which is mainly all about color. Clear examples of racism is seen in politics, the media, the economy, jobs, careers, corporations, the so-called justice system, and it can even be environmental and religious.
Also, like Abagond said in another post, racism can be inverted so that people will hate others of the same background or hate themselves in general. As such those people will oppress their own for the sake of raising to the top.
As for your answer…dude, seriously, are you looking for some kind of sympathy when you constantly point the finger at blacks more than you do whites and crying about how they’ve treated you in the past?
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What are you trying to write about?
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@ Peanut
I added your new blog:
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Brothawolf I agree with some of the points you present but how has the color of a person skin hindered the blacks in america versus t he blacks in Britain? I do agree with some SOME of the statements not all. I would say its not racism but more bias since we PEOPLE have not seen other groups of people like Chinese Japanese etc etc. Like having a story about a white African who lives in america but is african by culture or a british black living in america or vice versa. yeah but its more bias not racism. Since why is there not more chinese clothing and chinese things besides just the chinese martial arts going to get the soy suace for chinese food. Alot of full blood chinese dont go for chinese food.
I do agree with abagond on SOME Of those statements. Well how do we stop that? So in Hollyweird it is not raising to the top because of your race?
I could tell you the same THING!!! You point the finger all at whites and not to yourself. you make websites like this and cant handle the heat when i present it. YOu do have good points but race is a very complex and so is sexual orientation.
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Mik,
Here’s a suggestion, why don’t you research for the answers you ask.
The color of a person’s skin determines how much value you have in a color-coded society. White skin means that you are priceless whereas black skin means you are worthless. Black people have to work twice or even three times as hard to get the same kind of respect that white workers get. Why? Because of the social stereotype that blacks are generally lazy when historically speaking we worked our asses off. Still, whites back then didn’t regard us as human beings worthy of dignity or respect no matter how hard blacks worked. Black people have worked beyond human limits but still got f*cked in the ass by whites and were, and still are today, expected to be cool about it.
You may call it bias. I call it racism. No matter what you call bullshit, it still stinks. And that stench is still fouling up the air.
I do not point the finger at all whites. I do not lump them all into one homogeneous group. But since they have the right to tell everyone how much they dislike whites, I have the same damn right to tell them what their problem is. What they say is usually based on myths and lies. What I say is based on truth and experience.
I also point the finger at ourselves when I feel the need to, but I don’t tell them how bad they are without figuring out the reasons why. I don’t come off as better than they are and tell them they need to get it together when I’m no better off. I tell it like it is and even include myself in my posts.
Mik, you seriously think what you’ve presented to me was heat. It wasn’t even tepid, my friend.
I will, however, agree that race and sexual orientation are complicated issues. That’s why I always state how I’m NO EXPERT. I give my views and if I’m right, I’m right. If not, I stand corrected and learn something. I don’t come off at the offensive whining and condemning anyone who disagrees with me. That’s a childish move. I open my mind, something you need to do if you are to ever be taken seriously here or anywhere. Straight up.
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@ abagond, have you read anyhting from this site? i think it might be an interesting topic to write about.
http://www.antiwhitemedia.com/2011/03/racemixing-euphoria.html
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Abagond,
I’m white. Your blog and ones like it have changed my life. I’ve realized I have no redeemable cultural identity, that everything I am comes at the direct/indirect expense of POC, and that I will never stop being this way, no matter how hard I fight.
I am everything that’s wrong with the world.
Removing myself from the planet is really the best thing I could do for anyone. The world doesn’t need any more white scum cowards.
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@ indigo
Sorry, but that is how a four-year-old or an autistic child talks: if you say anything bad about them they think that there is nothing good about them at all.
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Have you guys seen the new angle the Birthers are using now? Apparently Obama can’t run for president again because he’s a mulatto:
http://newblackwoman.com/2012/02/23/just-when-you-thought-the-birther-movement-was-over/
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Abagond,
I would love it if you wrote a book review for the historical work “New York Burning.” I read it a couple years ago for a class I had taken and it was extremely eye-opening.
Cheers,
JT
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@ Peanut
Thanks for the video! What a great model for SELF-RELIANCE!
The only thing I would change in what they are doing is to keep the conversation internal to the Black community because some Whites will use it to cry reverse racism.
@ Abagond
Are you still going to do a post on self-reliance?
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@ Abagond
I just saw the movie ‘Act of Valor’ which used real active duty SEAL operators and I noticed there were two Black SEAL operators on the team. It got me thinking, what is your take on the psyche of modern day Black soldiers in the elite branches of the military? Why do you think they do it? Do you think they compartmentalize how they are treated in this society from their dedication to this country?
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From the post Racist White Teen Girls
Bulanik said:
Perception of what is white and white enough does vary from continent to continent, or even Caribbean island to Caribbean island
Some commenters (especially the ‘whitest’, self-brainwashed, diaper-wearing ones) who know only the cursory history of nations (and Caribbean islands), and who may not have traveled outside the US, or even may have done so – but have learned nothing from their travels – don’t realize what they sound like, do they?
I have met so called ‘white’ people who have been more than a little bit touched with the tar brush, who are the most proud, patriotic ‘white’ people you could ever meet. Raise anything to do with the hue of their skin, even if its talking about how good a tan they have and they will re-direct the conversation to some ‘other’ minority group as quick as a flash, such is the fear of probing in to their, always uncertain racial background. Nevertheless for all intents and purposes, they are accepted within the white community and their so called ‘swarthy’ babies are too.
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@Bulanik
They are so completely desperate for acceptance into the White Club.
Poor creatures.
Are they really accepted, in the end?
Or, do they just keep the truth of their origins like a dirty secret?
They will go to great lengths to keep it a secret because if they dont, it makes them vulnerable, a target in the way that they have witnessed that those who obviously accepting of their racial identity of POC have been.
I know one such example where a blokes extremely dark ‘white’ hue was disregarded as ‘his parents are both white’ we were told. It later transpired that he was adopted by these white parents so did not know his real racial heritage but he had merely worked hard to ‘pass’ and ‘be accepted’ over the years by vehmently rejecting anything that would link him with any race other than white.
On the surface they are accepted but, they always live in fear that with any ‘wrong doing’ they do, they will be called out on this by their white peers in the most horrible racially motivated way.
What are your thoughts on this?
Have you ever seen the film Imitation of Life? This is an excellent example of this.
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@Bulanik
Yes, I have read and heard this too. This is not uncommon though is it. I read that Cliff Richard got teased and bullied because of his dark skin. Freddie Mercury on the other hand was ‘accepted’ by the masses as being a WM even though his mother looked nothing other than the Indian woman that she is/was.
This is just an example of how ‘colourblind’ people choose to be when they feel that certain people are an ‘asset’ to their race dont you think?
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(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lTHiObYX1o)
This song penetrates the soul.
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@ Bulanik,
I am not too sure. I think i just become enraptured with the song itself without understanding what it is about. I should search it.
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(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPGbAUDhAxg)
Vs.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTk_KirTBVE)
Tough call! I think Bob Marley eeks it out for me but Peter Tosh’s is addictive in its own right.
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Please use video links sparingly on the Open Thread. Unfortunately they auto-embed. Too many of them will make this page too slow to be usable and I will have to start deleting them. Their use on other pages is not a big deal since they rarely have so many comments
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@Abagond
Following the 2 seemingly hostile comments on the ‘Teenage Girls’ thread about commenters from outside the U.S, I am interested to know what percentage of commenters are from U.S vs The rest of the world.
Do you have any ideas what the % is?
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I don’t know if this is news or not, but Thordaddy’s been trolling around in other blogs saying the same nonsense. It’s either that or there is are a lot of ignorant white supremacist whiners named “Thordaddy”:
http://thequestionableauthority.blogspot.com/2006….ce.html
In the second link, it mentions how he used to be on Big Man’s blog at Raving Black Lunatic.
Again, I don’t know if it’s the same Thordaddy that comes here with his rants against liberalism and support of (white) supremacy, but one thing’s for sure, Thordaddy is an unpopular name in the blogosphere.
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@brothawolf
It seems that the individual doth protest too much…..something to hide maybe???
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Has anyone seen this article about the white slave children of New Orleans?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/28/white-slave-children-of-n_n_1307127.html
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Sorry I have to link to this song. Maybe it will change some minds (i.e. racists).
=D
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__1GvhLTEcc[/url]
Cheers,
JT
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@ to chill out the negative vibrations on this board and across the world.
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__1GvhLTEcc[/url]
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Joke of the day:-
I was walking down the street with my wife earlier when she accused me of being ashamed to be seen with her. “That’s absolute bollox” I replied……….by text from across the street.
😉
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I think this is a great photographer, wanted to share his link:
http://www.pagreene-photographer.com/
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Everyone:
I just have a brief moment for an update as I sit next to my mom’s bedside while she’s sleeping. As for some of the regulars here, you guys know I’ve been talking about my mom’s battle against cancer since last year.
Well, little by little her body’s been shutting down, and she has stopped taking her pain medication. She also has stopped eating and drinking. My mom hasn’t open her eyes for the past two days and hasn’t responded to my voice. I don’t know if she’s aware of her surroundings. However, I believe she is and I talk to her.
I told her she is very strong to have come this far. How proud I am of her for fighting with all her might and what an incredible woman she is. I also told her I love her very much and how much the rest of the family loves her and we will never forget her.
As I’m watching my mom take shallower breaths now, I wonder is it almost time? As much as I will miss her, I hope when her time comes, she’ll finally be at peace. Thanks to all who have been sending their thoughts, and prayers to my mom. I appreciate it.
~Leilani
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@Leigh204:
I know this is a hard time. Praying for your mom and your family.
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Leigh
Sending prayer and warm thoughts …
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@Leigh, you are in my thoughts and prayers, it must be so hard for you, I know in my heart that your mother is comforted by you being with her..
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@Leigh
I echo the above sentiments – thinking of you. x
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I will pray for you and your mother and your family. Like Bulanik says, take care of yourself.
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Someone mind explaining to me the premise of the “Vampire Diaries” series? Is it a vampires-go-to-high-school type soap opera?
TIA
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My thoughts are with you, take care of yourself.
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Sending out thoughts of peace & comfort for Rosario, and of strength for Leigh and the family.
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@ Leigh
I will ask the Great Spirit to comfort her and you during this difficult time.
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Many, many thanks to my lovely, fellow posters for your kind words. It means so much to me especially at this time.
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Leigh,
You are in my thoughts. I wish you, your mother, and your family much strength in comfort in this difficult time.
*Sends a hug in spirit*
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@ Leigh,
I hope for the best for you and your mother. Tranquility to all of your loved ones in this difficult time.
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@ Peanut
Yes, I got it and replied.
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What do you guys think about this:
http://www.whataboutourdaughters.com/waod/2012/3/2/kaiser-foundation-declares-war-on-black-women-call-650-854-9.html
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@Leigh
I send lots of strength and comfort and hope for you and your family during this time. Keep your head up.
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Hello everyone. It is with great sadness and a heavy heart that I post this. My mama Rose passed away early this morning. She fought a valiant battle against cancer, but her fight is over now. I’m truly thankful my mom is no longer in pain. She’s finally at peace. It’s so surreal. I mean, she was there, and now she’s not. I held her hand against my face and I told her I loved her. I am so grateful to have spent time with her. She knew until the very end that she was loved. I miss her so much. I will always cherish those wonderful times with my mom. I’m blessed to have my own angel watching over me. *sigh* Oh mama! I miss you very much! You are with me in my heart…forever…and always. Until we meet again, mama .
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I’m very sorry to hear about your loss Leigh. My sincerest condolences.
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My deepest condolences Leigh! Take care!
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@Leigh204:
I’m so sorry! Your Mom sounds like a wonderful woman. I’m glad you got to spend quality time with her. You, your family and friends remain in my prayers.
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Your mom couldn’t have asked for a more devoted, loving daughter and family.
I am deeply sorry Leigh.
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@ Leigh
Know that you are in my prayers tonight.
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@Leigh
Deepest sypmpathies to you at this time. Do take care Leigh, god bless you and your family.
X
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@ Leigh,
I hope you and your loved ones are okay. =D
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Just have to post this very interesting article about the decline of the GOP.
http://nymag.com/print/?/news/features/gop-primary-chait-2012-3/
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@ Leigh
I know this is a terrible time for you. But after you get through it you will see how fortunate you were to have had such a good mother for as long as you did. And even though she is physically gone her wisdom will be with you all the rest of your days.
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Have you guys seen this:
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Q_AHJQiMxIw)
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@ Leigh204
I am sorry for your loss.
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More on that racist judge and the good possibility that he is staying on the bench:
http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/02/us/montana-judge-racist-message/index.html?hpt=us_c2
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@Robert
Hey – how goes it? I see you posted recently 🙂 are you always on here taking a more voyeuristic stance or do you just pop on every now and again?
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@ Demerera
Hey Demerera I’m good thanks how you doing? Voyeuristic? hmmm that sounds like a peeping Tom lol. Yeah I’ve been lurking recently. You hear about the Tories latest plans to privatise the police? The police are dangerous enough as they are now. It’s getting beyond the joke now *Smh*.
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@Robert
Voyeuristic? hmmm that sounds like a peeping Tom lol
(Leers suggestively….) lol,
You hear about the Tories latest plans to privatise the police? The police are dangerous enough as they are now. It’s getting beyond the joke now *Smh*.
Yes I did. I was watching Question Time the other day and they alluded to this here. It doesnt surprise me, the Police have been held to account for much of their actions over the past few years which in turn has seen as significant loss of confidence and respect from the masses etc.
What better way to superficially bring this back than privatising and having ‘spin doctors’ work heavily on promoting you whilst hiding any of the negative and nasty things they do.
Working in the Public Secto there is clearly to much onus and responsibility even though IMO they still get too much leeway.
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@Bulanik
Following on from our conversation on the Satoshi Kanzawa thread, I am currently watching a programme called Toddlers and Tiara’s which focuses on the beauty pageant scene in the US.
Blimey, talk about highly driven by looks not to mention the worrying ‘swimwear’ round – what the hell is all that about?
I am also amazed at the amount of Black Children that compete in these competitions and win. Is there maybe an emerging appreciation of Black Beauty do you think?
What do you/other commenters think about pageants in general? Some of the parents say that it helps to give the child confidence….
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@Bulanik
Black children in these competitions? Really?
What do their mothers have to say?
They are quite diverse in their racial mix – some pure black children and other what the Americans call ‘Bi Racial’ according to their mothers though overwhelmingly the contestants are white.
Surprisingly (to me anyway) the mothers of the Bi racial children are both BW and WW. They revel in the whole contesting scene. Many of the mothers have let themselves go and dont take care of themselves, presumably pouring all their energies into their little girls. There is a little girl on there called Anna Marie and another mixed race girl called Mya who see each other as competition. The programme is focusing on the former child (her dad is Italian) – the mother thrives on the whole thing even talking about the fact that her husband and she separated for a time as he doesnt like the pageant scene and he told her to chose so she told him ‘bye bye’ but he came back cos he couldnt get enough of her. He does not feature in the programme like the majority of the other dads have done in the past.
Most of the mothers are ‘pushy’ to some extent. It is rare that I have watched these programmes and seen a relaxed mother who is doing it to support a child and empower them – it is usually the mothers who are driven and desperate to prove something via their kid
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@ Demerera,
LOL. Cracking up on your comments about Toddlers and Tiaras. From a sociological perspective, I thought that child beauty pageants were a white trash america phenomenon. I didn;’t realize that child beauty pageants had seeped into sub-cultures of the black community as well. Do you think that based on the way they are judging (i.e. THE WHITE GAZE), that Black toddlers should be complimented by winning a lot of the trophies?
Part of me thinks they should be insulted. I could understand if toddlers and tiaras was “Adolescents and beauty crowns” and all the Black adolescents won or typical beauty pageants, but i feel like this competition judges children in all the wrong ways.
I don’t know — I hate coming off inegalitarian, i just think like for that example of that white mother that dressed her toddler girl up in julie roberts’ “Pretty Woman” hooker ware … you have all the wrong messages to that little toddler there in every single way.
I do love me some hoarders though. Even though it’s pretty grotesque too. :$
JT
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Abagond,
Can i request something written on contemporary Confederate culture in middle, northern, or in the deep south, of the USA? It fascinates me that these values, customs, ideologies STILL EXIST and seem to have grown more boisterous with the rise of the first Black president.
JT
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@ JT
Do you mean the neo-Confederates or what?
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@JT
From a sociological perspective, I thought that child beauty pageants were a white trash america phenomenon. I didn;’t realize that child beauty pageants had seeped into sub-cultures of the black community as well.
I did too but realise my grasp of the American culture is not that great other than what I see on the TV/Read/what comes up with my siblings father who is American.
Do you think that based on the way they are judging (i.e. THE WHITE GAZE), that Black toddlers should be complimented by winning a lot of the trophies?
Hmmm. I think that whilst ideologies about black female beauty are often bandied around seemingly in the negative by WP in the US, the real and hidden feeling behind most is a secret envy/desire for some of the physical attributes of the BW. That is quite a sweeping statement and I dont think ALL aspire to this but, something that has been raised on here time and time again (most recently by Bulanik) is the availability of enhancing cosmetic surgery procedures that women are undergoing to either give them a bigger pout, emphasises their backsides etc – both attributes commonly associated with BW but also open to criticism by white detractors (on the surface anyway). So, should they be complimented? I think what the most important thing for those children competing is that they go in with a sense of self and come out with a greater sense of self regardless of the outcome i.e. win or lose. In other words, dont get bogged down with what after all is only superficial and transient and is down to personal taste and perception. Dont let it be the definitive, the be all and end all. I guess this doesnt answer the question fully JT but thats because I have such mixed feelings about the whole thing. The only reasonably good thing about this competition is that they do try to ensure that everyone ges some prize or other it seems.
Part of me thinks they should be insulted. I could understand if toddlers and tiaras was “Adolescents and beauty crowns” and all the Black adolescents won or typical beauty pageants, but i feel like this competition judges children in all the wrong ways.
What is most disturbing to me is the amount of make up, the lengths they will go to i.e. false eyelashes, fake tan, flippers for their teeth. These are children but they are treated like little dollies.
I dislike the whole swimwear aspect of it – what is this about? Judging children on their figures????? I dont believe it about the Julia Roberts thing – I havent seen that one.
What do you think of the WHOLE idea of judging a female on their looks poise etc JT? Are you one of these men who love the Miss World contests like a lot of guys do? I dont mind these type of competitions at all, after all, you get individuals who KNOW whats what rather than the kids who are often coerced/forced/pushed in to it
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@Bulanik
Here is Anna Marie in action (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McQYIjqfJ7Y)
(I hope this doesnt embed)
or here (http://tlc.howstuffworks.com/tv/toddlers-tiaras/toddlers-and-tiaras-pictures.htm)
The Black mothers feel a sense of pride of course. I dont get the sense that when or if their children dont place where they want them to, that any underlying prejudice or foul play is involved – they seem to feel that in terms of competition its a level playing field.
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@ JT
Do you mean the neo-Confederates or what?
—
Hi Abagond,
I keep thinking about contemporary confederate ideology looking for an outlet in political America. There is this clearly hateful stirring in populations of white americans across the USA.For me, one testament of this confederate mentality is by examining the viability of Sarah Palin in 2012 or 2016 America. She still catches the ear of so many right-wingers.
There are so many political scandals, “gotcha moments” to dismiss her as a folksy yoohoo.
However she is still the centre of political attention (i.e. at their CPAC convention even while they have this new choice Mitt Romney; in that new film “Game Change”).
It is not just her, but it is her rhetoric. She plays carelessly with themes and tropes to convey her message. You hear her talking about “A” but she is talking in “B”. She knows she’s doing it but she puts no gravitas to the effects it has on historically oppressed groups.
She is a sociological phenomenon that is waiting to be written about in *MUCH* greater detail. I think that sociological construct could be contemporary confederate culture in the 21st century. How it manifests itself etc.
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@ Demerera
“”
In other words, dont get bogged down with what after all is only superficial and transient and is down to personal taste and perception. Dont let it be the definitive, the be all and end all. I guess this doesnt answer the question fully JT but thats because I have such mixed feelings about the whole thing. The only reasonably good thing about this competition is that they do try to ensure that everyone ges some prize or other it seems.
“”
And here is my problem Demerera:
We know the social reality: looks matter on an EVERY DAY BASIS.
A testament to this phenomenon is the prevalence of plastic surgery for lips @$$, botox, face lift whatever, like the such you were explaining about. Or even the concept of tanning. I mean here whites and others in a constant struggle with how they appear vs. how they want to be treat. There is the anecdotal and sociological data for the superficiality that prevails much of society.
Should children, White or Black, be prepared for this Darwinistic reality of the thriving of the fittest from the earliest point in our life spans?
I don’t know.
My thought is that the earlier thsi lesson is taught, the better.
HOWEVER…
don’t teach your child it in their infancy on television, through a public competition.
That is a bizarre and ritualistic punishment.
Just my opinion. No offense to anyone that disagrees.
As far as my personal tastes…
I consider myself asexual. I am not really interested in sex *THAT* much. I think that these women are beautiful but there is something about them that is plastic too that is not altogether appealing.
I did *LOVE* our current Miss Universe though: My roommate watches the competition and salivates the whole time and I thought that Miss Angola was the most stunning.
Visually speaking and PERSONALITY. You couldnt help but fall in love with her.
Everything about her seemed so purely natural.
I hope she doesn’t change that.
Naturalness & sincerity is much more attractive in my opinion.
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@Doug1
In response to this comment on the Black People according to the 1911 Brittannica
It does and men generally have to take up to slack. Although it’s not as fraught to fire a white woman as it is a black of either gender, it’s a lot more fraught than firing a white man.
‘Affirmative action’ – The whole purpose of which is to re-dress the balance. It should NOT be used exploited and abused but should merely be a sageguarding measure to ensure that consistency is practised ALL across the board and that deliberate discrimination no longer occurs. It ensures that individuals are sought on merit experience and potential ability/suitability to the role, not particularly on their ethnicity/race. Instead of thinking of this legislation in derisive terms, perhaps we have to look at WHY it has been felt necessary to implement it in the first place…
Your comments suggest that there a particular trend in POC going to tribunal as opposed to white people in an employment situation in the U.S – maybe, just maybe in some cases there is credence to this.
From my own experience, I worked with a guy (white) who’s father ran a successful business. He told me that his dad would screen CV’s and categorically disregard any applicant who had an asian/foreign sounding name!
You see why this is necessary?
In my organisation, applicants are not identifiable – they are merely a number and their experience, qualifications are all that the recruiting manager sees prior to interview.
Suffice to say Doug I think I can see where this is leading to. I get the distinct impression that you are not being honest with yourself but nevertheless it comes through in your commentary albeit unwittingly maybe. I suggest that you think carefully. Any minute smidgen of tolerance or credibility you may have had will disappear very quickly if you take this conversation to the depths of which I suspect you are capable of.
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Demerera:
I deleted that comment from the Britannica thread because there it is off topic.
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@JT
Should children, White or Black, be prepared for this Darwinistic reality of the thriving of the fittest from the earliest point in our life spans?
I agree. It is a tricky one isnt it. Unfortunately though if you dont teach kids to compete on some level and keep up, there is the danger of them being left far behind. My children attended a school which didnt believe in competitive sports! I disagreed wholeheartedly – not because I suspect that I have mini Uswain Bolts/Jessica Ennis/Steve Crams whoever, in the making but because for those children who are less academically inclined, the sports field can be the making of them. Though my eldest has since discovered an ability on the track field which clearly was not picked up in primary school and has only emerged since secondary school. Academic ability was always extremely high anyway so I guess I was less worried here.
So what to do? I guess its important to try and get a balance regardless and most importanty to ensure that understanding occurs.
don’t teach your child it in their infancy on television, through a public competition.
I definately agree with this .
Miss Universe aye…
(http://shinymeteor.blogspot.com/2010/12/latest-news-on-miss-universe-2011-meet.html)
This lady? OMG, she and I are doppelgangers man 😉
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LOL! Yeah but Leila doesn’t have an ounce of Demerera in her ;). Leila is completely missing out in those infinite respects.
People are best when they are comfortable with themselves as they are.
At least I enjoy talking to them when what they say is based on who they are and what they believe and what they’ve experienced.
Just my opinion.
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@JT
Yeah but Leila doesn’t have an ounce of Demerera in her . Leila is completely missing out in those infinite respects.
Bless your heart. She is a gorgeous looking individual isnt she – from what you have said about her personality she certainly seems to have it all 🙂
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@ SomeGuy, Herneith, Nom De Plume, Jack in the Box, truthbetold, Peanut, Bulanik, Demerera, JT, abagond, Robert, and all the rest of you wonderful commenters:
Thank you so much for all the well wishes and expressions of condolence to me, and my family at this time. Although I’m saddened, still a bit dazed, and exhausted, I’m especially touched by the kind, and thoughtful comments posted here throughout the times of my mom’s cancer diagnosis, treatments, and passing. I know this is only online, but you guys don’t realize the impact your words have on me. It comforts me. The woman I am today, I owe it all to my mama. Even if you don’t believe in God, I just want to say bless you all fine people. 😀
Here’s a pic of me and my mama when she was first diagnosed.
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@Leigh
I’m so glad the comments on here gave you some solace through this time in your life. I thank you for sharing the photo on here too – its beautiful and shows the love expressed between you and your mum. I agree with what you say about mums too – My mother is the strongest and most fearless woman I know. If I could be half the magnificent woman that she is I will be content.
With love x
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@ Leigh
I’m actually crying right now. Your picture has touched me so profoundly.
God Bless you and your family through this difficult time.
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@ Leigh
What a gorgeous woman your mother is! I am sure that that external beauty is reflected by her internal (therefore ETERNAL) beauty.
I hope that you are finding solace in your endless supply of wonderful moments had with your mother. She is with you through every moment of your life before and after her passing. Always by your side!!! =)
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Interesting article on today’s culture wars and the new direction they are headed:
http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/2012/03/the-culture-war-tide-is-turning.html
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@Leigh204:
I’m glad our words and prayers give you comfort. Thanks for sharing that wonderful photo. Your mom is beautiful.
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@ JT
Is it a wonder why our nation is so vile? Words have more power than we care to admit. When taken to heart, the violence erupts in our schools, places of worship and workplaces. Then everyone wonders “why?”
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Leigh,
I just got here this evening and read the news. I’m sorry to hear that your mom passed away. I hope you and your family are doing okay through this difficult time. You are in my thoughts.
Thanks for the beautiful picture of your mom.
*hugs*
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@ Truthbetold
Agreed. I only expect it to get worse. People seem to be polarizing like they have before at fever pitch points in history. At least in the USA.
How high does the tension get until someone breaks and does something very stupid?
I myself have engaged in the same heightened debate in here. I hope that even in debating with these “enemies” I can remain civil and not stoke the flames of ire. Sometimes it is hard to control my tongue. These people get me really offended, hurt, and disappointed. They seem to be oblivious to the feelings of other people. I am part of them by the perceptions of people who categorize me, featurally, as like them.
This is a perpetual dilemma.
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I start paying attention to this thread only to read about what Leigh is going through, that’s so heart wrenching. I really have no words, I’m just rooting for you and your family.
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@ Leigh204
Dear Leigh,
I did not read the news until now. I am so sorry for your loss. I’ve never met you and I do not know you well, but I cried when I read it. I have lost a loved one to cancer before and even though we know the day when they will no longer be on this Earth is inevitable, it does feel strange. One moment they are there and the next they are not… All we’re left with are belongings and our memories and, in the beginning, it is so hard to let go of them.
When I look at the photo of your mother, I see a strong, courageous and very optimistic woman. I do not know if this is true, but that’s a feeling I get. When I read your posts, I think you have taken after your mother in that sense and I hope these qualities will help you through the difficult times ahead. It may be impossible to see it now, but one day you will be able to think of your mother without pain and have only a smile on your face for all the love and wonderful things she brought into your life.
If you need anyone to talk to, Leigh, there are plenty of people who are willing to lend an ear here.
Take care and stay strong!
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@ Leigh
What beautiful picture!
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@Leigh:
My deepest condolences on your immeasurable loss. My thoughts are with you! From a fellow Canuck.
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Scanned from a 2010 senior University Child Abnormal Psychology textbook:
http://www5.snapfish.com/snapfish/thumbnailshare/AlbumID=5933551027/a=9294473027_9294473027/otsc=SHR/otsi=SALBlink/COBRAND_NAME=snapfish/
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Abagond,
I wonder if you would be willing to take a look at my article, appearing this week in The Austin Times – the multi-cultural newspaper of Austin, Texas.
http://theaustintimes.com/2012/03/living-with-the-legacy-of-white-privilege/
the article will trace my white privilege starting from my ancestor born the year the slaves had their rights restored all the way up to when I married my husband. I’ll be pointing out all the ways my family benefited and my husbands family was oppressed by US policies.
When my husband and I met, I had a Masters degree and a high paying job. He had a crack addiction and a long felony rap sheet. my goal is to show how policies and laws led us to where we ended up. My husband and I both have high IQs but were both poor students.
My articles will avoid talking about self-esteem and other intangible effects of racism. It will focus entirely on laws because I think I can make a much stronger case that way.
Anyway, if you can take a look, I would appreciate your thoughts.I am a frequent reader of your blog and have a lot of respect for your opinions.
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Coming here late…
@ Leigh:
My condolences on your loss. I hope you and your family are doing well and supporting each other during this difficult time.
*HUGS*
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@ kristlsmithtyler
Wow, cool idea. I will let you know what I think.
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@ Leigh
I am so very sorry to hear of your loss. My prayers are with you and your family. If there is anything I know about you from your posts, it is that you are a STRONG woman. You will make it through this.
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I want to read this:
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@ Abagond,
I don’t want to whine to you but i question the value of having trolls like Henry or Doug1 on the board .Could you do a post on the purpose/value distilled from their human pestilience ignorance.
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@ Abagond, & @ Randy (for the second part of the post)
Do they actually raise or lower the level of intellectual discourse? I don’t remember any instances.
Maybe through their disconnect with reality, that sort of distortion proves interesting, psychologically, but….
( @ Randy), this isn’t a “vigorous” debate – this is people’s lives.
I think one of the most pathetic things one can do is think of this as like a game. You sound like you have “ZERO” experience seeing things through other peoples’ perspectives. Which I hope is not the case. Because that would be a sad life.
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@JT
I don’t want to whine to you but i question the value of having trolls like Henry or Doug1 on the board .Could you do a post on the purpose/value distilled from their human pestilience ignorance.
I dont know what abagonds thoughts are on this but, to my mind, it is irrefutable proof the kinds of behaviours/sterotypes/prejudice POC face. And with the individuals that you stated making comments that ‘revert to type’ continually, it is affirmation that the way that some feel is more than just conjecture and not merely all in the mind or the proverbial chip on the shoulder.
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Do they actually raise or lower the level of intellectual discourse? I don’t remember any instances.
Perhaps not, but they do raise the comedic quotient on otherwise sober topics.
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Fair. But I don’t even know if they are debating. They seem to be spewing the same thing, no matter what your response to them is.
I don’t know – it seems a bit futile. Maybe a *one hateful* free pass per thread and then they need to post something of substance?
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@ Herneith
Forget IQ tests, we need CQ tests! 😛
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@Robert
Hmmmm, what kind of memories does the vid conjure up for you then????
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Just some random thoughts…
As we move closer to the November elections, I wonder what will happen to this country. I feel Obama will win a second term but at what cost?
My family and I talked last night about moving out of the United States for good. Perhaps the islands or back to the UK.
I’ve grown tired of the stupidity. I feel that America has regressed at least 20
years. I wonder if watching Americans fight their own extinction is worth it?
The rampant racism isn’t getting better, believe me. In fact, things have grown more vile, especially in the media, which we hardly watch anymore.
We came here hoping for a better life and all we got was longer hours at work with less pay. Add the stench of racism to the mix and the combination is horrid.
We’re not sure yet.
I’m planning a vacation this summer to visit the family…perhaps we’ll decide then.
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@Bulanik
I don’t know what she means now I just like the melody 😉
lol was your nickname for her nasty girl? 🙂
@ Demerera
Eddie Murphy and two white cops in a strip club lol.
How about for you?
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@Robert
Oh yeah, Beverley Hills Cop. Forgot about that.
Liked the melody did you Robert….;-)
I like this as a Prince produced/written song
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6zduBiRZw8)
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@truthbetold
I would advise against choosing the UK. We currently have an extremist right-wing government working night and day to turn us into a mini-America minus the right to bear arms. UK right-wing politicians often go on trips to America to learn from your wingnuts and are in the process of importing every regressive policy ever devised in the U.S. This place is getting meaner and meaner everyday, is as racist as ever and also as you probably already know Black people are just a tiny minority here about 2% of the population.
Whenever the Prime Minister David Cameron’s popularity ratings start going down he embarks on an anti-multiculturalism speech. He chose to make his last one on the same day the far-right group the English Defense League went on a race baiting march to an Asian area.
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@Bulanik
Thanks for the excerpt and the link it was very informative and explains Kathleen’s circumstances and the environment she was in when she made her decisions.
“It seems the men cared ALL about their racial oppression…and to hell with the women….”
Yeah deeply flawed.
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@Demerera
Yes ma’am hehehe
I like this as a Prince produced/written song
Choon as you would say.
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JT:
Au contraire! Vigorous debate is even more essential when people’s lives are on the line. Don’t disparage this noble tradition by succumbing to your own personal or moral squeamishness.
Now, have at you!
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Everyone,
I’m not one to ask for help from people on the net, let alone asking for a prayer, but a friend of my brother-in-law is in need of prayer.
He’s a teaching assistant for the Special Olympics who’s been accused of having sex with one of the students. However, he says that he didn’t do it.
The guy told his mother and his friend, (my brother-in-law) who went to see if he’s okay, that he’s innocent. He is extremely depressed by being placed on administrative leave, forbidden to be near the school grounds, and his mugshot is plastered all over the state news. He even said he’s never teaching again.
The student that accused him, has had a huge crush on him. However, he’s not the kind to date his students. He never has. But this girl was so obsessed with him that she lied about having sex with him.
And it gets worse, the investigation is saying there may be two more cases against him which may have come from the accuser’s friends who may also have a crush on him.
So, now the news is making him look like some kind of sexual predator when he’s anything but, and it’s tearing him up inside. In the public’s eyes he’s already guilty.
http://www.wistv.com/story/17088835/cayce-coach-accused-of-having-sex-with-student
Now look, I know that it may seem like he did it just by looking at the online article. Call me naive, but if someone consistently says he’s innocent of a crime even telling his mother and best friend that he’s completely innocent and sinking into a deep depression because his dream of helping children has been snatched away from him, I believe him.
I know that there are cases of men sexually assaulting and raping women, but I also know not all cases are true. Some cases are false, and from what I can gather, this is one of those cases.
I dunno. All I’m asking is for is prayer I guess. Even though I question God and His existence, I think this guy needs a miracle. So, if you would, please pray for this man and his family as well as the accusers and their families.
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I am so sorry. That is a terrible situation to be in it has to be devastating. You’ve got my prayers.
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Tell me more, Bulanik.
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@brothawolf:
I have an absolute zero tolerance for child abuse, any kind of it. How ever, there is a witch hunt element prevailing now a days where accusations can be thrown at any directions without any proof. Based on your words that is what is going on there. That poor guy (assuming he is innocent) is being convicted by public opinion before investigation. That is very much used tactic. You just let the accusations out and let the media frenzy take care of the rest.
There was one incident years ago where social workers saved one child from his dad. According to the divorced wife and the social workers dad had molested the child. Then, surprise surprise, the mom was also molesting the kid. Child was taken in custody and both parents were crucified in the news. Then came accusations that the grand parents and other relatives had done the same. That was the moment when some started the question the whole incident.
Years later the kid told that he had agreed everything that the social workers, two women, had told him because they gave him candy and toys if he agreed with them and if he did not, they treated him like he had done something wrong.
It took about ten years to clear the parents from the false accusations BUT the social workers were not punished and are still in office. The whole case was bogus. Some still believe that the parents were molesting the kid even though the kid has told his side of the whole mess.
But like I said before, I have zero tolerance of any kind of child abuse. Including school bullying and other forms, not just the heavy cases.
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@bulanik:
Misogynism is a problem in many movements and cultures.
Why the taleban failed in Afganistan, but the islamic revolution succeeded in Iran? Because the taleban were openly misogynist and decided to put all the women down. In Iran ajatollah Khomenei said in the very beginning that the women are half of the revolution and must be involved in it. It is that simple.
Opression of women can be religious or cultural but it always backfires. The only way to progress is the equality, real not imagined. The more equality between the sexes in society, the more advanced and human it will be. All the Nordic countries are admired by their school system and social security etc.but it is because of the equality between the sexes.
There are guys who do not like this kind of sciety and somehow they are always right wing and/or religious. Never mind that there are loads of women politicians, party leaders, prime ministers and presidents, business women, there are still those men who oppose all of this and want to smash this kind of society and their spiritual brether in USA and abroad are giving them all the support they can ask.
Go figure…
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I dunno. All I’m asking is for is prayer I guess. Even though I question God and His existence, I think this guy needs a miracle. So, if you would, please pray for this man and his family as well as the accusers and their families
“”
@ Brothawolf,
What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty??
I believe you and I believe your friend. I will pray for the best for you both.
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It IS a game for Randy.
People’s lives aren’t a part of his cutting and slicing – tradition. Only ‘debate’ matters to Randy…not people’s lived experience.
We are ‘squeamish’ because he is antiseptic? Oh please, really.
“”
@ Bulanik,
Thank you for this post. It is nice to know that I am not the only one that smells his BS a mile away.
People’s lived experience means nothing to him. He is “fact-searching” after all.
What is reported in the news; in history books; what he sees in front of nose include facts.
What he doesnt see in the news; in history books; or in front of his nose do not include facts.
If he were to admit how ignorant he is about social realities of non-white peoples, then we would be having a different conversation.
But there he is stating that this is an objective subject and that it should be debated because it deals with real people’s lives.
No matter how amazing of a job everyone does on this board of explaining experience; noone here can do justice to what generations past and present have experienced at the hands of whites.
As such, i think randy would be better off shutting up until he read some real history about intergenerational oppression and the cultural genocide that has been targetted at the Black diaspora in America.
There are extensive libraries full of this information.
And he would be better off educating himself in this arena instead of expecting Blacks and their allies to explain why he is wrong or why any race realist is wrong.
This is probably my last word on the subject.
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@ brothawolf
Sorry, love.
If this were me in this situation, these are the questions I’d ask myself:
1. Why is she doing this? Perhaps she solicited him and he refused so this is revenge.
2. Is your friend wealthy? This could be money motivated.
3. Who are the other girls and where did they spring from? Why are they suddenly on the bandwagon of accusal? Perhaps the main girl is asking her buddies for ‘help’.
4. Bear with me here: If your friend EVER did ANYTHING, a hug, a kiss, anything… now’s the time to come clean. Ask him, privately, to tell you every single detail that led up to this. No matter how small.
5. What is the girls home life like? Perhaps her abuser lives at home and your friend is her outlet for her anger and pain.
6. You friend must get a lawyer, straight away. Time is important here.
Seeing a black man’s picture attached to a sex crime will be damn hard to fight.
Sorry for the brutal honesty but I won’t lie to you. This will be an uphill battle.
Have his attorney make a public statement on his innocence, have him take a lie detector test.
Since the media influences the public, like a bunch of sheep, your friend will have to fight fire with fire. Tell him to see a doctor about his depression. And, sorry love, his career is over. Once an accusation of molestation gets out, most schools will not hire him, even if he’s innocent. Perhaps this is God’s way of telling him to pick another career path? He does work in mysterious ways.
And yes, I will say a prayer for him.
Sorry…good luck
Truth
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@BrothaWolf:
The pitiable thing in all this is that should the charges be thrown out, you will not hear about it on the news. If this man is exonerated, his name will have been impugned and prospects for working in education diminished greatly. If he is exonerated, I hope he sues this organization for loss of reputation and livelihood. He better lawyer up quick!
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Bulanik:
I say that JT’s position suggests moral squeamishness because it implies that debate is not suitable for situations where peoples’ lives are at stake. That’s fear talk.
I dare say that one ought to engage in debate in as objective a manner as possible so as to uncover underlying truths. Also, as the saying goes, the plural of “anecdote” is not “data”.
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@ Randy,
That isn’t “fear talk”. Your not uncovering any truths, you’ve Alvarado got your mind made up, and you just find “evidence” that is catered to your views while discounting anything else. Your not objective by any means.
People just don’t want their lives treated like some experiment or lesson for you. They shouldn’t have to go through personal pain to teach you when there is so much you’ve discounted that already does that. You don’t have to discount everything they say or have been through and then insult them by claiming you’re being an “objective debator”.
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@Randy,
That meant to say already, not “Alvarado”…stupid spell check.
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@Ace
People just don’t want their lives treated like some experiment or lesson for you.
Its true. There is something cold, detached and clinical about Randy. It is as you say more experimental in terms of his responses than properly engaging with the topic at hand.
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^^ That’s because blacks aren’t considered human.
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@ Brothawolf
Another suggestion just sprung to mind. Any character witnesses that may help your friend may ease his situation. Maybe the girl is unstabe? Or maybe she’s done this before?
Find out and let the lawyer know.
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Everyone:
Well, I heard from my sister that the accusers don’t have a case which is good news. Still he has to go through due process.
Thank you all for your prayers and support.
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Since the media influences the public, like a bunch of sheep, your friend will have to fight fire with fire. Tell him to see a doctor about his depression. And, sorry love, his career is over. Once an accusation of molestation gets out, most schools will not hire him, even if he’s innocent.
That’s the biggest issue. People will assume he’s guilty if he tries to pursue education.
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The strange thing is I don’t even know the guy, but I was worried for him since yesterday.
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@brothawolf
Yes, unfortunately mud sticks. How awful for your friend to have his career ripped away from him like this. Glad that the case against him is weakening – lets hope that the truth prevails.
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Demerera,
I hope the truth comes through too. I really don’t know how anyone could sleep at night making up something that horrible.
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@ brothawolf
Glad to hear she has no case!!!
Tell your friend that God works in mysterious ways. Is he good at writing? Maybe this will be his moment to articulate how accusations can endanger a person’s life.
Maybe he can write an article, form support groups, etc.
Remember when doctors were allowed to be alone with female patients?
Not anymore….
Perhaps he can implement some formal change in the education system to that effect?
Just thinking out loud.
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@ Brothawolf
I am very sorry to hear this news. I wish the friend of your brother-in-law the best of luck. I’m glad that it turns out they have no case and I hope it turns out all right in the end.
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Truthbetold,
I have to be honest, but I can’t tell him that God works in mysterious ways because I question God’s existence. In a way He and I don’t quite see eye-to-eye.
It sounds hypocritical to ask you all to pray for someone who wonders if God exists and what kind of god is God. Right now, this man needs all kinds of help, and like I said, I dunno why this is buggin the hell outta me since I hardly know him, but from what I’m told, he’s the kind of man the youth needs.
Iris,
I’m glad too, but I’m still worried because there has been no word on the charges being dropped.
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@ Brothawolf
Not seeing eye to eye with God makes for an interesting relationship with him, no? I no longer question his existence since my house burned down and I walked away, unharmed, unburned, covered with soot and trembling.
It doesn’t sound hypocritical at all. Noone knows for sure but we all need something devine, pure and good to believe in. May I guess why this resonates so deeply with you?
Because there are very few good beings left in this world and your friend is one of them. When bad things happen to good people, we ALL feel it. After all, it could happen to us at any given moment.
Because you, as a black man in the south, could face similar charges at any moment and the burden of proof will be solely on you.
Because you, as a black man in the Unites States have to fight to prove you are not a sexual predator while real predators walk around gleefully and unnoticed.
Because you look at this individual, who’s trying to help kids and all he’s getting for it is a kick in the teeth.
Hence the question of ” is God really there”?
Tell your friend to hang in there. My grandma used to tell us, ” What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger.” Believe me, she knows that from first hand experience.
Perhaps you can use this as a moment to educate us on your blog. Or ask Abagond to do a guest post on the subject of black males, crime and the media.
Use OJ Simpson as a prime example.
And keep having a wondering if not tentative belief in Him. He does exist.
Good Luck
Truth
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It just seems messed up that a being that supposedly a loving and forgiving would allow the slaughter, oppression, slavery, and rape of people of color for so long while the group responsible hasn’t gotten so much as a cosmic slap on the wrist.
Yet, I’ve been told over and over again that if I don’t pray, go to church, or believe in God there’s a strong possibility I’ll end up in Hell no matter how much goodness I’ve done. It’s like saying that a serial killer that still believed in God, went to church every Sunday, and prayed, would have a better chance of going to Heaven than me someone who could not even kill a cockroach let alone another human being.
There are so many contradictions told to me from left and right. God’s a loving God, but a jealous God, but isn’t Jealousy one of the deadly sins? And how come a being with so much power create a planet in 7 days instead of make it appear in a nanosecond?
My biggest beef is that with some people, we are told to pray whenever a problem arises. Pray. It’s always prayer. Praying to a god that allowed a group of humans to commit the worst crimes in history. This makes me wonder that if there is a God, is He a white supremacist too?
But I’m just venting here. Don’t mind me, I just have a lot of things on my mind as usual.
I’ll shut up now.
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@ Brothawolf
Vent, my friend.
We all do.
The thing we learn from this world is we all have free will. That’s the most powerful, wonderful gift God gave us. We are not mindless sheep. Even though some of us act that way.
God is all powerful but jealous. He wants you to do right by Him and our brethren, but will be the ultimate judge of that, so yes, he is biased.
Quite the paradox, no?
The way I personally look at things is this way:
Have I lived my life in a way that will make me, my parents and God proud?
Did I at least TRY to be fair?
Did I at least ATTEMPT to be loving? Forgiving? Caring? Accepting?
If I harmed anyone, did I at least TRY to be apologetic?
If your answers to these questions are mostly, yes, then you’re probably on the right track.
When I read the bible, I do not believe everything written. For instance, I don’t believe that a senior citizen built a boat big enough to hold every animal on earth, including insects and fish ( where would they swim? LOL!) so we could procreate.
If Adam and Eve were the first man and woman on Earth, in Africa I presume, and they begat many children, and those children begat many children…yes, that’s called incest.
LOL!
But I digress, The point of believing in something is putting all your faith in something holy, devine and worth fighting for. Humans have done a bang-up job of ruining this planet. Something HAS to be out there worth holding on to.
For me, it’s God.
Maybe you’ll find something of your own.
Did I ever tell you I studied Buddhism?
Perhaps that’s for you? Read it sometime. It’s not really a religion, per se, but a way to look at life, strive for enlightenment, heal from the mind, not the body and the utmost importance to meditate.
Try it sometime.
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@brothawolf
I hope the truth comes through too. I really don’t know how anyone could sleep at night making up something that horrible.
Unfortunately it is a stark reminder that adolescents and young people really dont take into account the consequences of their actions. Neither are they expected to take responsibility for things either. One look at the ‘teenage racist rant’ post tells us this….
Do keep us posted and let us know the outcome x
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@ Brothawolf
“Pray. It’s always prayer. Praying to a god that allowed a group of humans to commit the worst crimes in history. This makes me wonder that if there is a God, is He a white supremacist too?”
**********************777********************
I would argue that God exists, even though I myself have at times wondered where’s God hiding out at – and why horrible things are permitted. Nonetheless, the proof and evidence of God’s existence surrounds us. Just examining LIFE at the cellular/atomic level proves the existence of a Master Designer! Even if humans “evolved” from something/someone else trillions or however many years ago, where and how did it all begin? And most importantly, why? Why are we all here??? What’s our purpose?
Yup.. life is chock full of contradictions, mysteries, paradoxes, unequal outcomes, unfairness and plenty of bull-sh*t. And the Creator permits it all to occur, otherwise humans wouldn’t have FREE-WILL. One can even reasonably argue that God created evil, even though God is comprised of LOVE.
I don’t believe in accidents or coincidences. There’s a (currently) invisible spiritual realm where God orchestrates and directs the universe from. It hardly makes any sense to us. God is infinitely bigger than any box we can imagine and as such is beyond our current ability to fathom or understand. That’s how I see it.
All we really have is our faith and trust in the Most High – and the cross we each have to carry, until its all finished – however and whenever that occurs. Even the anointed one felt like he was forsaken and abandoned as he was nailed to his cross, and so it is with all who belong/believe in God/Allah/Yaweh/Jah/Jehovah et al. It seems like we literally have to go through Hell (a Great Tribulation – of some type) in order to get to that place of eternal peace.
There’s much more to this than what we can presently see.
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@ brothawolf:
I hope your friend comes out of this relatively unscathed, although the stigma of just being accused might linger for some time…
At any rate, you said this:
I have two words for you – Bethany Storro…that should explain it.
I knew this broad in Seattle who had major issues when it came to men; namely, she had absolutely no boundaries where they were concerned. If a guy talked to her, then in her little mind, that meant he was interested in her and was ‘coming on’ to her. If he asked to buy her a drink, then to her, that meant he wanted to take her home or ‘be her boyfriend’. If he asked her to dance, then she pretty much assumed that they were engaged – no lie.
The histrionic narcissist goes out of their way to make it all about them, demands attention constantly in dramatic fashion, and bases their self-worth on what the object of their desires thinks of them. Since mental illnesses are now under the Special Olympics umbrella, more and more incidents like this are virtually guaranteed. Basically, a person’s disability isn’t always obvious anymore!
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@ Peanut
I am doing a post on Kony 2012. It is going up tomorrow.
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Bulanik
@Brothawolf (Excuse my lateness.)
As Demerera, truthbetold and others have pointed out, the prospects for your friend continuing his present career are not good. Although it seems the accuser has no case, the damage has been done.
____
The linked article has an awful lot of coincidental evidence that seems credible to me to at least make an arrest of this teacher
another adult, teacher, stated that the accused took this special needs child from her hotel room, the accused’s wife was looking for him, and that there is text messaging evidence between this child and the accused. Of course is it possible that all this evidence is fabricated, but my fear is more for children in these circumstances, especially with so much collaborating evidence. It disturbs me that a special needs child is becoming the accused in this thread and will I generally lurk, I felt that this child should also be prayed for and defended.
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@ Brothawolf
Bulanik is right, we are in a bully-culture. I once read an article that stated that a child molester just ‘knows’ which children to pick. Certain qualities of vulnerability seem to attract certain predators.
Perhaps your friend has a tenderness with these kids that she just senses and wishes to exploit.
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Do you remember the satan worship hysteria years and years ago? There were abundance of stories how secret satan worshipping circles were sacrifing kids and women etc. all over the place. Finally they brought in the FBI to investigate these allegations: there were no such cases found after few years of investigations. None.
It seems that there is always somekind of hysteria going on in the States. Now it is this molesting teachers hysteria. And the worst thing is this: the real pedophiles have a field day when cops and authorities are trying to figure out the non exsisting cases.
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Vanishing point,
First of all, if there’s one thing I’ve learned is that the news media loves to put on spin on things at the expense of people’s lives for higher ratings. You can’t go what the news report says and automatically believe it without considering that it comes from a biased view.
Second, family and friends know the accused more than the news media, and they are a 1000% positive that he is not that type of person. Plus, the guy himself told everyone including his friends and family that he didn’t do anything. He’s not that type of person who’s a wolf in sheep’s clothing. In fact he has gone out of his way to help at-risk students for their sake.
Third and most importantly, you can not see things in black and white. Hell yea, there are child molesters and rapists out there in the world, and they must be held accountable and punished. Hell yea, we need to protect our children from the creeps that lurk the streets in any neighborhood. But at the same damn time, we can not protect the youth if we are willing to punish the innocent. That is counter-productive.
Yes. There are teachers out there that physically and sexually abuse children and they need to be arrested. However, there are young people who will use that fact for their own means for numerous reasons to accuse an innocent teacher of a crime he or she didn’t commit, and it’s more common than we would like to believe.
I hope that this man will get out of the mess he’s in. I hope that soon he will either prove his innocence or the teen would drop the charges. Still, I don’t want this teen to be seen as some kind of deviant who deserves a harsh punishment. I only hope and wish that the accuser will wake up, confess, learn, and get some kind of help.
I know it automatically looks like he is guilty, but not everything is what it seems.
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I want to think you all for your incite into this terrible situation for my bro-in-law’s friend. Let’s hope something positive comes out of this. I will keep ya’ll posted.
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@brothawolf, of course I have sympathy for your bro-in-law’s friend, and I totally understand your support for him, and I have no idea what the police are like where he was arrested. And yes, I can see where the press love to mis-quote and spin things. And I also realize that the police do not have the evidence that they say they do. I am just commenting that just because his family and friends can’t believe it ,doesn’t mean that this girl is guilty either.
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@Sam
Do you remember the satan worship hysteria years and years ago? There were abundance of stories how secret satan worshipping circles were sacrifing kids and women etc. all over the place. Finally they brought in the FBI to investigate these allegations: there were no such cases found after few years of investigations. None.
Have you heard about this below? I turned of the radio when I heard this, sickened by it….
(http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/mar/01/couple-guilty-boy-murder-witchcraft)
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Yes brothawolf do give an update, such a horrible predicament to be in.
Has anyone seen this story, the most recent blatant walking while Black that I’ve seen since Abagond’s post regarding young man gun down by NYPD.
This one takes place in FL.
http://news.yahoo.com/family-florida-boy-killed-neighborhood-watch-seeks-arrest-044537742.html
And here’s the petition for justice for Trayvon Martin
http://www.change.org/petitions/prosecute-the-murderer-of-17-year-old-trayvon-martin
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@brothawolf:
I pray that everything works out for your brother-in-law’s friend in the end.
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@Vanishing point,
I am just commenting that just because his family and friends can’t believe it, doesn’t mean that this girl is guilty either.
The reason why they can’t believe it is because they don’t believe it, and this guy is still trying to prove his innocence. Also, the young accuser needs help herself in some kind of way.
I’m afraid that when he’s proven innocent, how will her life be affected as a result of her lie?
But anyway, thanks again for your comments everyone. I knew this was a touchy subject, and I shouldn’t gone into detail about it, but it’s good to read what you have to say.
I’ll keep you all posted.
Lifelearner,
I heard about this from the Black Youth Project. This is becoming more and more frequent which worries the hell outta me.
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@demerera: There it is. And that is not the first case in England in past 20 yrs, I remember there was a similar type of incident back in 90’s.
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For those big on twitter am sure you have not missed the #kony2012, invisible children or their video that went viral.
If ever there was a case on the White Savior Complex, this white dude would be it. He and Bono are probably BFF’s. Its the most exploitative and emotional-esque porn video that i have EVER watched!
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@ malkia,
I disagree somewhat. I feel there is a small bit of “white savior” in it, but it’s not like he’s running around denigrating them or acting like he can tell them how to live in their culture or something.
He seems to genuinely believe in it, and the fact that so many people are so moved by the situation is telling that he did the right thing by doing it. I highly doubt a black person doing a video like that would get that response, so we should be mad that people needed a white man with a camera to show them that before they gave a damn about it.
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@Ace
I disagree with your disagreement. LOL
I have tweeted so much on this topic, I will just leave you with a link which share my thoughts. Also, hope you read the guest post I wrote called the Business of Saving Africa.
Couple of things though:
1. Jacob is crying and this white guy says…”its ok i will stop them”. OK superman. Solve a conflict that has been going on for 25 years and involves so many players. Kony is evil. I accept.
2. The Board of Invisible Children is mostly white young people discussing black folk. I am uncomfortable with this, reminds me of the Scramble of Africa.
3. There is no talk of the numerous NGO and CBOs that have done and continue to do good work there. So people did give a damn before the white man. Many people. A lot of them Africans (Ugandans) affected by the LRA and the Ugandan army.
4. It takes away the agency of the Ugandan people (as usual in these types of things) to determine and solve their own problems. LRA is no longer an issue in Uganda. It has not been for 6 years.
Anyway, you can check out my timeline @judyneno, also @tejucole and @texasinafrica on twitter and also this here link:
http://projectdiaspora.org/2012/03/08/respect-my-agency-2012/
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@ Leigh
Good to hear from you. Silly question but how are you?
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@Robert
You like?
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hO3FUfs6iYA)
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IlHq3n3hy0)
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Some Mr Isaacs for y’all…
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jz83XbX_AeM)
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Abagond, please check your gmail.
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@Demerera
Yeah nice 🙂
Remember this one?
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FziicPt9cs&ob=av2e)
I’ve been feeling this one recently.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZnVLxqWcHE)
Love the ethereal harmonies on this one.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sO3WDcEa2FQ)
This one is a cute remake.
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@ Abagond,
Any chance at getting a poster intro. thread?
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@ Peanut
I am still writing the Kony 2012 post. It has proved to be very hard to write – there is so much to say in just 500 words!
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@ JT
What do you mean?
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@ Abagond,
I don’t know if anyone would want to but a thread that was dedicated to introductions? I guess that can be done in the open thread …
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@ malkia,
Well, those are good points about Invisible Children. Very good points.
1. Honestly, when I first saw that movie, the thing that stuck with me was Jacob crying, and talking about his life and brother. It truly tore me apart. There are some merits to the film and the movement behind it. To me it proved (yet again) that social media could be a force for good and empathy.
2. Yeah, it can seem that way. I can totally see that. It’s depressing, because it makes you wonder if that outrage is genuine because of the suffering those people experience(ed), or if it’s just to be part of another “white guilt” movement.
3. That is very true. I also wish that they took more time to show that it wasn’t just one white man against the corrupt black people, but I am still perturbed that it took that white man with a camera to show it before people gave a damn.
4. True, I would hope that people wouldn’t take something like that to mean “Ugandans can’t solve their own problems”, but then we’ve seen people make that argument before so I suppose it can’t be too long until we see it again.
Thanks for the link, it’s a very interesting take on that, it makes me think about it in a different way.
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@ Malkia
That Project Diaspora link was excellent.
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@Robert
That last track was a Stephanie Mills song originally which I absolutely lurve. It reminds me of happy times….
Just watching ‘I’m a Pop Star’, do you remember PWL and their churned out factory hits? These are couple of my faves from this time (plus a bit of eye candy for ya lol):-
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlLKNxDbsi8)
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPmy2fCuTjs)
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@Demerera
Yep, the ubiquitous Stock Aitken and Waterman. Some great songs and some crimes against music too.
lol thanks 🙂
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Music from different regions of Africa
http://www.awesometapes.com/
Sidenote: the website linked to is hosted by a white man. Is he appropriating Black music to his own profit? Yes. Does he send them parts of his profit back – purportedly, yes.
Interesting – should another white person be getting rich off the labour and creativity of Blacks? Would this music go unheard from Western masses and $$$ if it remained undistributed? Does that excuse his hosting of their music to his benefit?
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What are peoples thoughts on the government proposals to legalise same sex marriage? I dont know how widespread this is i.e. is this something that is being implemented in any other countries across the world.
(http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17329902)
Any strong feelings ‘FOR’ or ‘AGAINST?’
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@ Demerera
I’m conflicted. As a religious person, I say that a marriage should be between a man and a woman. As a liberal, I say, who cares?
There’s no easy answer to this. People, all people, should have rights to marry and have children. But, from my religious background, it nags at me.
That’s my honest truth.
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@truthbetold
Yes, it is a difficult one isnt it. When I look at this statement below for example, I wonder whether in part, it is down to mere semantics, after all, a ‘Civil Partnership’ does carries with it, the same rights as marriage:-
And the Archbishop of York, Dr John Sentamu, opposes gay marriage but supports civil partnerships, which he says have addressed the injustices faced by same-sex couples.
“There’s a difference – and people don’t these days want to talk about difference – there’s a difference between a civil partnership and marriage, and that difference doesn’t mean one is better than another, but they’re different.”
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@ Demerera
I love how America uses semantics to hide prejudices. Like all the code words for Obama not being a ‘real American’. LOL! Like we’re stupid.
Just say what you have to say!
Gay marriage is a hot topic and will remain one due to the fact that a lot of us despite being open-minded are conservative regarding certain issues.
Abortion is another one.
I guess it boils down to personal beliefs, upbringing and God, if you believe in Him.
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^^ By the way, this is a hot topic all over the world.
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@ Demera,
From Wikipedia:
Since 2001, ten countries have begun allowing same-sex couples to marry nationwide: Argentina, Belgium, Canada, Iceland, the Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Spain, South Africa, and Sweden. Same-sex marriages are also performed and recognized in the Brazilian state of Alagoas,[2] Mexico City and parts of the United States. Some jurisdictions that do not perform same-sex marriages recognize same-sex marriages performed elsewhere: Israel, the Caribbean countries of the Kingdom of the Netherlands, parts of the United States, and all states of Brazil and Mexico. Australia recognises same-sex marriages only by one partner changing their sex after marriage.[3] As of 2012, proposals exist to introduce same-sex marriage in at least ten other countries.
Mind you, the part about the Netherlands alllowing it nationwide is not entirely true for the time being, on 10-10-10 the Netherlands Antilles dissolved, the two island areas with the largest populations became constituent countries of the Kingdom in their own right, just like Aruba, while the three remaining island areas became the American (or Caribbean) parts) of the Netherlands (which represents about 98.5% of the kingdom). Resident same-sex couples will get the right to marry there before the end of the year, it seems, but still not now.
More strange news, a Dutch black person on Twitter declared March the Ninth last year Negro Day. Your opinion about that?
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@Teddy
Having read this article and the responses, it seems that this guy fancies himself as a bit of a comedian. Could he have meant this in a ‘tongue in cheek’ kinda way?
(http://afroeurope.blogspot.com/2012/03/negro-day-in-netherlands-but-is-it.html)
It does purport to certain widely held stereotypical viewpoints that some people have about BP. It is a shame that he didnt try to make this a ‘positive’ statement, rather than being a day for potential black ridicule.
What do you think Teddy?
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Of course it is meant tongue in cheek, and in a way it may succeed in making people think, invite people to act like a negro and you mag get them thinking more about the way they think BP act, much more than crying racism.
Those stereotypes aren’t that widely held in the Netherlands. Mostly because the Dutch mind thinks more in national (and religous) categories than racial ones,…
“Heb uw neger lief” is positive, and if anything is mocked by that, it is Christianity, the wording rather suggests that “negro”, here simply replaces “neighbor”, in bibletexts like Matthew 22:39.
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@ Bulanik,
Great points! I am glad you made them too … because even when i was have pangs of conscious about using this white man’s website which should belong to the individuals that wrote the music, i couldn;t but listen to their music.I’ve just started going through the tracks; I really like track 2 of ephrem tamru; also the one by Bola is pretty great. =)
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@Bulanik
I think this is it really isnt it. Different faiths have different aspects to their religion that other religions either dont subscribe to or reject out of hand. When we look at faiths like Islam, Christianity and Judaism they have many elements that are the same – after all, the were all borne from one single faith but certainly in Christianity for example, polygamy is not a part of this religion and the reaction and penalty for anyone other than a practicing Muslim is potential imprisonment!
The outcry against same sex marriages IMO stems from the fact that this would change the face of religion irretrievably and will have an impact on how society views religion as a whole. Make the choice A and you will potentially keep some loyal followers but not necessarily draw ‘new’ followers, make choice B and you will find that not only will your loyal flock depart, but, you may have a whole ‘new’ group to contend with, one that will potentially test, challenge and shake the foundations of this religious institution.
So, do we bring religion into the 21st century or do we follow what is deemed by some to be an archaic and outmoded institution – its a tough call.
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@Bulanik
I think more than anything is the fear in the minds of people who can not bear to see same-sex intimate partnerships condoned or even existing…
I think this is definately at the very heart of things yes. My response on the whole issue is definately conflicted. I confess, that this could be construed as a case of double standards – if the bible said that Black/Asian/Other races were ‘evil’ or something equally contentious, I know that I would want it addressed and rectified PDQ.
The thing with Civil Partnerships is that it IS recognised by law on similar if not the same level as a marriage and its entitlements. I would probably even use the word ‘marriage’ in terms of talking about a gay couple who’s union was as a result of a civil partnership.
My confliction comes where I dont understand why anyone would want to marry in a Church were the religion and therefore the individual conducting the ceremony, doesnt appreciate or support who they are and what they stand for as people.
Maybe there are a few issues here – the right for same sex couples to be married in a sacred/holy building and, a change to the foundations of religions such as Christianity, Islam and Judaism where they do not condone gay/lesbian marriage.
Any thoughts anyone?
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@ everyone:
racist video alert!
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxCbMlGDPzg&feature=endscreen&NR=1)
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@ Bulanik
Thank you!
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@Demerera
I don’t know that anyone is demanding that churches marry gays. That isn’t the issue, and in any case churches have the 1st amendment protecting them. The issue is ONLY the state issuing marriage licenses – and the state shouldn’t be in the business of discriminating against gays any more than against mixed race marriages.
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@ Abagond
It’s your birthday? Well, here’s wishing you all the best life has to offer with many more to come!
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Yeah… Happy B-Day ,,, old man! LOL : )))
You made it another year!!
A serious milestone for black men in America!
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Happy Birthday Abagond!!
And Leigh, you are missed and being prayed for. Stay strong.
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Happy birthday, Abagond! Hope you have fun celebrating another year on the planet. 🙂
Leigh – Hope you and your family are holding up all right.
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@Joshua
I don’t know that anyone is demanding that churches marry gays.
In part, I am referring to the views expressd on a programme in the UK where representatives of the Gay community were discussing this, perhaps it differs in the US.
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Happy birthday abagond! For some reason i think you hate me but nonetheless I like you! LOL. Hope you had a stellar day.
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Many Happy Returns Abagond –
Hope you’re having a smashing day
🙂
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happy birthday aba!! keep doing the good work and enjoy some breaks now and then! you deserve it
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@DarqBeauty:
@Iris:
Thank you ladies. I’m holding on and taking everything day by day. I’m doing okay thus far.
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Oh, and Happy Belated Abagond! Keep up the great work on your blog! 🙂
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American Idol villainizes one of their finalists
http://www.tmz.com/2012/03/14/jermaine-jones-american-idol-history-of-violence-police-reports-criminal/
Disgusting! American Idol should be ashamed.
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@JT
Though he got throught to Hollywood, I didnt even think this guy made it through to the 20 odd contestants? At least, I think this is the same guy that I am thinking of – 6ft7″ or so – devoted to his mum?
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I am not sure to be honest. I don’t watch AI. I do however pay attention when AI pimps their performers but then retreats in a fallacious horrified member when they see something that they don’t like later on. I.E. what they did to Frenchie in season 1/2 or whenever that was.
I think this series will humiliate this poor man as if its the right thing to do. I think that makes them culpable of a greater crime then anything he did.
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* in a fallacious and horrified manner*
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@Leigh
Thank you ladies. I’m holding on and taking everything day by day. I’m doing okay thus far.
Glad to hear that you are ok lovey x
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Demera – interesting. In the US the churches are constitutionally protected against that sort of thing, though some churches are playing the victim card claiming they’ll have to marry same sex couples. It simply isn’t so, here at least.
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JT, his crime to AI was lying up front. The public part is because he lied to become a celebrity. You can get fired from any job for lying on your application, and if he didn’t want this stuff to become public he shouldn’t have sought out the publicity.
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Happy Belated Birthday, Abagond.
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@ joshua,
Have you ever thought that this was known a long time ago by the AI people and they pulled this stunt for ratings to draw in the white trash vote?
I wouldn’t put it past them at all.
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@ JT
Those shows are just trash to begin with so what’s the difference?
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@Linda
In response to your comment on Racist White Teen Girls Goes On a Rand about Blacks
The Tiverton couple looked at them like they were crazy and said,” well, dear, you aren’t British because you aren’t white, so you are West Indian’s like your parents.”
At that moment, it became clear to me why my mother stayed in Jamaica when her parents decided to immigrate to the “Mother Country”
this was over 20 years ago, so maybe the general thinking has changed.
What you describe Linda was/is commonplace and accurate in terms of the kind of response you will get when you are black. Yes, there has been progress/recognition/understanding of a kind amongst the younger generations (that being said though, I have noticed a propensity to regress to more narrow thinking they older they get – go figure!!!!) but, the older generation will still refer to all BP, regardless of whether they have an English accent or if they were born and bred from of first, second, third etc migrants as West Indian.
Some might even say African (I Know thats how some asian girls at my school referred to BP). The most ignorant of the individuals will relate that to people who have what they term ‘blue black’ skin!!!! *SMH*
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Demerera
It’s sad to hear that…even though overall, I enjoyed London, it’s a different feeling being black in Britian than in the US.
But in a strange way, I prefer the US more because at least in the US, my children get to decide if they wish to assimilate and be “Americans” and all the good/bad that comes with being black in America; whereas, I realized in England, my children will always be “other” no matter how assimilated into the culture they become (also, easier to make money in US)
My cousins have overtime come home (Jamaica) to get their bearings but they didn’t stay, they missed London and all the priviledges of living in a wealthy country.
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“They ever had their Civil Rights Act of 1964. I mean they did (in their own little European way)”. This is not strictly true or fair.
Black people in Britain had to fight, and some lost their lives, in the struggle for equal treatment and equal rights. It hasn’t been exactly plain sailing…””
“”
Hi Bulanik,
I am sorry for saying it like that. Having reread it, it was definitely a stupid statement and grounded in ignorance. I just don’t know much about European Black civil rights movements. I haven’t educated myself in it. i have only learned about USA civil rights movements. My apologies.
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@JT
I too commented on what you said on the other thread – it is a common misconception amongst Americans, both Black and White, that Black British people did/do not encounter struggles and hardship just as American POC have/do.
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@ Demerera,
Sorry, I didn’t see it. I will go back and reread your comment too. I appreciated the links that Bulanik provided.
All i know is that my grandmother is English, and I remember her talking ish about how noone wanted to dance with the Black males. From her memories, it was socially taboo for whites to cross that line between the ethnicities in the air force.
I would have preferred to be with the people of color, e.g. having a good time instead of throwing shade at others.
Anyway, sorry i just thought of this example of social oppression as a possible example of Black European civil rights conflict. I digress…
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@Robert
Couple o’ choons for ya from back in da day. I would have been in my early teens…
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqyOlanGk_Y)
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jau-DPP_WMY)
This one is a bit earlier….
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgD4x_SfyD8)
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@ JT,
Yes, I understand that this was the case with the Black American G.I’s who came over to the UK during WWII – the legacy of the ‘mixing’ was the so called ‘Brown Baby’ situation…
Maybe a simplistic look but if you have ever seen the film Yanks, it might give you an overview of what your nan said. Just out of interest, what part of England is your nan from?
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@ Joshua,
When you have a television show like AI that has consistently ranged in viewership between 20-50 million viewers, i think it is hard to dismiss such a show as simply “trash.” These real people that end up the show are somehow supposed to have a narrative that denotes their deservedness to be the american idol. And how they fit into society as a prototype for an ideology (“redemption,” “perseverance,” “the triumph of modesty and self-control” “beauty as external”.) etc.
Through this public castration of this Black male American Idol finalist, white racists are gratified, whether on an implicit or explicit level. I would expect that viewership spikes after this controversy in white males and females.
Think about it instead of just blindly consuming!
@ anyone,
Has anyone ever guessed how many “race realists” lurk on this board? It would be nice for them to come out of the woodwork all at once so they don’t keep starting the same script over and over again. It is nauseating but somehow compelling. They are like a gruesome accident.
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@ JT,
Yes, I understand that this was the case with the Black American G.I’s who came over to the UK during WWII – the legacy of the ‘mixing’ was the so called ‘Brown Baby’ situation…
Maybe a simplistic look but if you have ever seen the film Yanks, it might give you an overview of what your nan said. Just out of interest, what part of England is your nan from?
“”
@ Demerera,
Well she has passed away now, but she was born and lived in Newcastle on Tyne until after WW2. Then she emigrated to Canada with my grandfather which is where he was from originally. He came to the UK to help the war effort as a mechanic, i think. Not entirely clear on my family history, though… i just remember little anecdotes like that from my grandmother early on.
I think i asked her whether she danced with one of those Black troops and she said “no.” She was of the guilty bystanders.
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@JT
I don’t consume it, so it doesn’t affect me. 20-50 millions consumers of trash is not a surprise to me in the least. Whether or not someone is gratified about this, the guy shouldn’t have lied. If he didn’t want the publicity for his past, he shouldn’t have sought it out. Unless the things said were made up, I don’t see the complaint.
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@ joshua
Instead of trotting him out in front of the American public to humiliate him, they could have eliminated him from consideration before he got on national television. They knew his legal history (whether with or without charges) prior to him being on the show. Why should he be fodder for White gleeful racism.
Honestly.
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@JT
I think i asked her whether she danced with one of those Black troops and she said “no.” She was of the guilty bystanders.
Its difficult to judge what it was like in those days but, it shows that the experience resonated with her, so much so that she commented on it to you.
“Why aye man, she was Geordie” thats how they speak, lol – have you heard of Cheryl Cole? Sting, no doubt will have heard of and Mark Knopfler (Dire Straits), they all hail from this area as does one of my good friends too. You might find it indecipherable – even I do but I guess this might go both ways 😉
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Wow, I’m late =) Happy Birthday Abagond!!
Leigh204: Wishing you and your family continued strength through difficult times.
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http://www.bitsdujour.com/software/all-discount-codes
Heavily discounted software!
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@ Demerera
lol I never knew what she meant by “geordie.” People from that region are definitely distinct. LOL.
As far as the ability to break normative influences; people did at the time – unfortunately she wasn’t one of them.
Something i have learned from and will probably continue to learn from. =)
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@JT
FYI…
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geordie)
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geordie_dialect_words)
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfduEnl20CY ) Based on the format of Jersey Shore
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@ Demerera,
Thanks for the background info. I have never read much about their regional history. It is interesting! =D
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@Bulanik
Simple copy and paste the links as usual but, start and end them in brackets
x
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@Demerera
@Robert
Couple o’ choons for ya from back in da day. I would have been in my early teens…
Thanks. So can you rap then Demerera? 🙂
Some from my youth.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mX2vhSockUY&ob=av2n)
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oak4_095Cug)
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAuOCluflKQ)
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QH4ic9AXWzE)
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@Robert
I can’t work out how old you are just when I think I get it, you throw me a curveball lol though I’m sure that you must be of a similar age to me…
….So can you rap then Demerera? A little….;-)
Some from my youth.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mX2vhSockUY&ob=av2n) Chooon lol
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oak4_095Cug) Is this some secret subliminal message to me Robert 😉
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAuOCluflKQ) Gee Thanks x
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QH4ic9AXWzE) ! LOL
Ok, Right back at ya
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0bdLNs08ME)
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4Gh-GH8Miw) gorgeous female Annabella Lwin
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwHuEDCM7xs)
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaLEpc0lBJU) That was me – UK Raver
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@ Demerera
So it’s working then, splendid hehehe.
Shhhh 😉
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0bdLNs08ME)
Macka B lol reminds me of my gheri curl, hair was slicked down like the Fonz.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4Gh-GH8Miw)
Wild indeed nice hair!
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwHuEDCM7xs)
Choon
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaLEpc0lBJU) That was me – UK Raver
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEdiOBz4zeM&feature=related)
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@Bulanik – I will respond immently, interesting topic.
Meanwhile, I would be interested to hear from y’all, your memories of teenage parties. I have just attened one as a chaperone for my eldest and, whilst I realise things have changed, I am surprised to hear that the kind of ‘chat’ from young girls is the following ‘Do I look sexy in this’ rather than my, perhaps twee teenage years of purely ‘thinking’ “Do I look OK in this”.
Are you guys aware of the shift in mentality of the ‘Youth’ of today? How does it differ from your era (s). I would be intrigued to know….
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@Bulanik
Sometimes when I read comments on this blog, I ask myself about that. Does this mean one can invest one’s identity and loyalty as an American, yet, always be looked upon and treated as foreign, criminal, etc, to always be a lower type of American, rather than a ‘generic’ one?
The comments on here strongly suggest that there is a sense of ‘giving’ yourself up in pursuit of recognition and identity as an American, and the feeling of disappointment thereafter when, as continuously discussed on here, it often does not live up to expectations. I think of the commenter dave (hope you dont mind me referring to you on here 🙂 ) who’s comments indicate that whilst he meets the criteria, potentially on a superficial level i.e. skin tone, that perhaps there is a certain mentality and approach that needs to be adopted to ensure that you are accepted as a true ‘American’.
I think few Asians and black British want to be ‘just British’ because they hold strongly, and identify, with the cultures of their parent’s and grandparents. Also more often than not, British Asians and blacks grow up mixing freely with others, with a keen sense of their own entitlement in the mainstream. Perhaps they feel less pressure to conform to whites in order to ‘be British’. It’s almost like: this is me – take it or leave it. Americans in contrast, seem to rely more on ‘being American’.
I think there is an attempt being made at trying to establish a balance i.e. still application forms generally have a ‘Black Asian’ or ‘Black British’ tick box on their forms. I’m certainly not saying though that this has eliminated the percpetions of WP about the identies of POC in the UK. The response I gave to Linda above about the fact that WP in the UK will still often refer to a BP as ‘West Indian’ in terms of describing the individual without knowing ( or lets face it, caring, if this is accurate) is a reminder of this.
I remember at one of my ante natal appointments, the midwife was there with a trainee and they needed to get some information for some form they were completing. The girl asked me what best matched my ethnic identity and I told her which one – the midwife herself, when I had gone behind the screen to disrobe, told the girl to change what I had said on the form to another one. I stopped and asked her why she did that and she looked at me with an amused expression, as if she felt that I was overreacting. I was furious and told the girl to change it back (she looked worried). Do you know what Bulanik, I KNOW that that midwife changed it back again to what she thought.
I do agree though that there is a more overt ‘take it or leave it’ response from POC in the UK compared to those in the US. Saying that though, for many, the connection to cultural lineage/roots has been lost over the years hasnt it. I wonder if the West Indian migrants living in the US rely on ‘being American’ compared to the other PoC in the US. Now, dont all shout at once but, I do find Americans can be so insular at times and have little interest in what is going on in the world at large – almost as though nothing else matters but the good ole US of A. This has been compounded whenever I have spoken to my cousin who lives in America who, despite being born in the UK (though emigrating when he was 4), knows little or nothing about any aspect of it.
I recall a time when England was almost looked down upon as quaint but pitiful:
I think this is still the perception Bulanik for some….
How does this manifest itself in your current country or residence? Do you remember the film The Commitments? It came out in the early 90’s about a group who were influenced by R&B sounds Wilson Picket etc. The film was huge and if U2 didnt do it before, it really put Ireland on the World radar map and EVERY celebrity was pulling Irish heritage out of their arses, just to feel a part of this new interest in all things Irish phenomena. One of the lines in this movie I still remember to this day, ‘The Irish are the Blacks of Europe’!
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Here we go again. Charlize Theron adopts a black baby, her first child.
Time for a new thread?
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@ the foreign interlopers
http://www.youtube.com/verify_age?next_url=/watch%3Fv%3DX0DANz1otOg%26ob%3Dav3e
http://www.modovideo.com/video.php?v=5rk7t0tn4osm8dfcwz444q3jtvdg5ln1
http://www.modovideo.com/video.php?v=51muzz0xttrll2nmq8fse44a4pgrfomk
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Yes, but I believe she has the same skin condition as Michael Jackson.
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Should I try and turn my name back to JT or should i keep personinmotion. They both sound good to me.
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@ Bulanik,
I *love* Ethiopian rhythms and blues. It is amongst the most inspiring of genres:
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOUGqzVIvfI)
I also enjoy ska/rocksteady:
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUWpovcGjQ0)
I like celia cruz:
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Js0rKmv-0Iw)
and I love Motown
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxoSCzNpd9w)
^^^^ hahaha just playing…Im not that white! vvvvvvvv Below is the real stuff!!! =D
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joqjBAJx4ZA)
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@Personinmotion aka JT
Now, you wont get like Prince will you who would at one time in is career, only answer to the name Symbol 😉
Gwan wid de Rocksteady…I guess you would like this (posted it on here previously) by Toots and the Maytals…
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sdXJiKsQrI)
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@ Bulanik
Never thought I’d EVER see someone mention Alemayehu Eshete on this blog. Serious props for making my musical taste seem a little bit less eclectic.
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@ Bulanik,
When i figure out how to do JT, I’ll stick to it. =D I am personinmotion for the meantime. Thanks for the words though.
I am glad you like some of my choices. The creators are stunning talents.
@ Demerera,
LoL. Every legend needs a symbol! Prince knew that too =D Hits the drafting board. =D
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For those interested in watching some African drama… please watch MTV Shuga its on MTV and BET.
Its shot in Kenya and its main purpose is to raise awareness on HIV/AIDS . Its very popular in Africa.
Catch it on YouTube…you will not regret watching it!
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Uh oh…..
The CIA wants to spy on you through your TV:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2115871/The-CIA-wants-spy-TV-Agency-director-says-net-connected-gadgets-transform-surveillance.html
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YvAYIJSSZY&ob=av3e)
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Abagond –
I think JT (and perhaps others too) had a good idea. That is a thread set aside primarily for Introductions – and maybe a little “voluntary” and “optional” background info about the poster, like:
Region/Country
Race
Gender
Purpose for coming to this site
Aspirations, Hopes ??
And any other mundane info the poster is willing to share – that’s NOT TOO MUCH information.
This might help people to know and understand one another better – across the board. 😉
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Great idea, Matari! 😉 I think it might prove useful to have fun as well as politic.
@ abagond,
I think the front page is a bit fatalist – what are the chances we could go back to some renaissance art =P
JT
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LOL could someone explain the skittles/handgun showdown on the tapes thread?
If i had to answer the question i think Abagond’s asking:
I would say skittles. The handgun’s shooting power is no match for the skittles rainbow power.
=P
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@ personinmotion
I updated my banner. It is art from a later period.
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@ Abagond,
The Arrest Zimmerman banner? Nice and direct.
But yeah thank you. I think its important to confront the reality of Trayvon’s murder. Justice needs demanded. I also think it is important to remember Trayvon and what he was like as a young man. Nonetheless, i found it incredibly difficult to login and find his eyes staring at you.
It is very sad that this happened. He should be playing at recess time right now.
😦
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Don
Being white in America gives you privileges that you cannot know or see unless you are the one on the outside looking in.
I don’t feel like getting into a long conversation about something you ALREADY know about yourself, about this country and its injustices.
Whites simply cannot deal with their own racism. It leads to a mental breakdown of shame, anger, depression and hatred of themselves.
Not wanting to see reality, especially in America, is the ultimate form of cowardice. That would mean your lives, families, jobs…YOU are a fraud.
So you hide, dodge, run( white flight), ration, somersault over and over again
about the truth. When you finally have no more excuses, you fall off the face of the earth and go into hiding. Or come here to antagonize, like Bliff.
That is cowardice.
And one more thing…
If I were to list the nasty, underhanded, evil, destructive, demoralizing, racist, demonic, sadistic things that whites, especially the ones threatened by my education, upbringing, speech and JOB, I’d be here till next year.
Don’t tell me about ‘equality’, Don.
Don’t quote MLK.
Don’t talk about forgiveness, healing and trying to put the past behind me.
I’ve tried all that before.
Then some white sheep who feels threatened tears off my scabs and I bleed all over again.
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@truthbetold
With no disrespect to you, I will always talk about forgiveness, healing, and looking to a better future. Without those things, there will be no better future.
I am not going to ask you to list all of the things that you mentioned would take a year to mention, I do not wish anybody to re-live any unpleasant experiences. But please choose one path or another. Either tell me that I can not talk to you about certain things because I don’t know details of your life, and be willing to share those details; Or refuse to share the details of your life and understand that you are willfully giving up your say in what is “taboo”.
To be honest, the only context of racism that I have seen from you is racism of whites oppressing blacks in the USA. You have hinted that you have been on the receiving end of injustice, and for that you have my sympathies. But your insinuations and blanket-judgement of whites shows that you are very short sighted and can not see past, or otherwise do not care past your own experiences. You insist that presumptions are not made about you, yet there is no apparent hesitation for you to presume things about me. So much hypocritical thinking from someone that appears to be very bright. I can’t understand it except that to assume your wounds must be incredibly deep, so who am I then to blame you?
Well I’m not going to blame you because I am in no position to do so. However no matter how bad things were or are, without forgiveness and healing things will never get better. I’m not going to give up that fight. There are a lot of countries in this world, and there are a lot of cultures in these countries. The real face of racism is worldwide, culture-wide, and that real face of racism has many “colors”. Sexism by the way, is also a huge problem throughout the world.
My eyes are as open as I know how to make them, and I am always willing to learn how to open them further. This tit-for-tat mindset will perpetuate the problem forever. In the real world we all must live in, equality is a lie, and fairness is a lie. Nothing will ever be perfectly equal or perfectly fair. The only way society can get along and work is that individuals realize this and are willing to forgive and look to the future. I have plenty of forgiveness to dish out, and plenty of forgiveness to ask for.
I am sorry if you feel that your scabs are being torn off, that is not at all the intention. This is however a table of discussion that everybody joins willingly. By all means beat me up, if you see flaws in me put my nose in them.
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Subscribing.
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@ Don
If you want to fight the good fight for equality, you can do it by yourself.
I will no longer hold the hand of any white person to guide, teach, train, explain, sympathize and pity them for the destruction that which they created. This country was built, founded, made stinking rich and continues to thrive on the basis of hate, masked as ” good ole-fashioned values.”
The level of hypocrisy is brilliant. But, you are the ONLY ones who believe in your own hype. Countries all over the world curse white America. Whites from Europe are offended to be labeled as “white” due to the negative connotation.
It’s your fight.
I’ve fought my whole life and I’m damn tired.
I won’t be responding further.
You can figure out a way to un-brainwash yourself.
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Don
Do you still think you know better than me? LOL!
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@truthbetold
Yes I do want to, and I will do it by myself if need be. I hope one day that you can find a cause or a problem to fight for that you really truly believe is bad enough and valuable enough to fight for tirelessly. We’re all unique so it isn’t the same cause for everybody.
Your false assumptions and accusations about me are forgiven. Take care.
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@destructure
I think perhaps you have me mixed up with someone else? I don’t believe I’ve ever previously directly responded to you or anything you’ve said?
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Don is great. The more you slap him the more he likes it. hehe
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After the Trayvon Martin murder, my family and I sat down and had a no holds barred plan on what to do when we go out.
I used to drive 15 minutes to the Dairy Queen on warm summer nights here in the country-side. Or walk to Otter Lake with a telescope.
Not anymore.
We will always take a cell phone, flashlight and company, any company where ever we go from now on.
I am so damn sad by this killing. It’s bothered me for weeks now and I couldn’t put my finger on why. My brother says it’s because he reminds me of Andrew, our nephew. It’s true. Trayvon’s baby-face does look a lot like my nephew’s.
Guys, I have a bad feeling about this.
I think this will be the catalyst for a riot.
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Truthbetold, I know how you feel, I look at his babyface and feel pain in my heart that someone could just shoot him down like a dog.
Don’t feel so pessimistic, steps are being taken in Sanford to admonish the police investigators and get things moving…
then again, you may just be right if this guy doesn’t get arrested.
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@ anyone,
Do you think that race realists attach such importance to their lack of melanin pigment in their skin because they have little else to feel proud about? Would a secure person degrade an accomplished people (Blacks) explicitly based on physiological differences? Would they attempt to tie everything back to ethnic difference?
Who else thinks that they are extremely insecure individuals?
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@personinmotion
We white race realists have much to be proud of, and “lack of melanin pigment in their skin” is not one of them. That’s just how we are. It’s not what we did.
degrade an accomplished people (Blacks) explicitly based on physiological differences. Blacks are accomplished, especially in sports and entertainment, but less accomplished in the USA in other endevours requiring cognitive skills.
Why do you think we are “extremely insecure individuals”? Our race realism is an opinion we hold, it does not define our entire life or personality. So, why do you feel we are insecure? I’ve never seen any reason given for this oft-quoted statement. Do you have a reason for stating it or are you just trying to demean and insult us?
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@ personinmotion
Does Bliff answer your question?
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@ truthbetold
To best of his ability. Which is not saying much. LOL
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@ truthbetold,
And he says race realism doesn’t define his whole personality. I would beg to disagree. As soon as you find out that someone has the capacity for such ignorance, that bleeds to every aspect to them. You know what their true nature is.
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Who else thinks that they are extremely insecure individuals?
Does a bear shi+ in the woods?
That’s just how we are.
That reads like a refrain from a song!
Blacks are accomplished, especially in sports and entertainment
What about the blacks who lack rythmn, jumping and running skills, dancing, singing, caterwauling, declaiming etc? You forget that black women are sexually insatiable and the black men have bigger than average genitals. Most men I know would rather have larger genitals than brains. A Trillion dollar industry in genital enhancement bears proof of this!
Our race realism is an opinion we hold, it does not define our entire life or personality.
You know you are right. I have very strong opinions on who makes the best chocolate in the world(Belgian). However it does not rule my life unless I am jonesing for a chocolate bar. Then it becomes the centre of my world for a short time!(ten seconds)
I’ve never seen any reason given for this oft-quoted statement.
The fact that you denigrate one group over another I suppose…..
Do you have a reason for stating it or are you just trying to demean and insult us?
Oh no, I think you’re wonderful Bliff!
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I thought ya’ll might want to check this out:
http://www.blackyouthproject.com/2012/03/deryl-dedmon-gets-life-sentence-for-hate-crime-murder/
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@ Brothawolf,
The family showed a lot of grace in requesting he not be given the death penalty.
@ Abagond,
I thought you might find this interesting. Appropriation at it’s best:
http://www.thenation.com/article/166961/reproductive-rights-and-long-hand-slave-breeding
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@ Brothawolf
Great news!!! I love how the family did not ask for the death penalty in such a terrible murder. Wow.
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Ace and Abagond,
Yea. I thought so too.
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@personinmotion
And he says race realism doesn’t define his whole personality. I would beg to disagree. As soon as you find out that someone has the capacity for such ignorance, that bleeds to every aspect to them.
I don’t see any reason why this is necessarily true. Just because someone has an opinion about another group of people, does not mean that defines their entire personality.
So, again, I ask you – why is a race realist like myself necessarily an insecure person?
Why don’t you try answering the question this time instead of insulting me? If don’t answer it, I’ll assume you’re just here to insult other commenters….and that makes you a troll.
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@Herneith
Awww, Herneith. I nominate you for Angry Black Woman of this blog. Your junior high attempts at sarcasm are as sad as they are boring and ineffectual. (When you were young, did you hear your name being called around the house alot? Like your Mom yelling, “Herneith!! Have you finally cleaned your room like I told you to, young lady?)
Why don’t you try answering the question also – why is a race realist like myself necessarily an insecure person?
“The fact that you denigrate one group over another” still doesn’t mean that I’m insecure; I just have an interest in race relations.
If you answer it , I’ll assume you’re just here to insult – and that also makes you a troll.
Looking forward to your carefully considered answer.
Does a bear shi+ in the woods? The best of 6th grade, along with “Is the Pope Catholic?” and “Make like a drum and beat it.”
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“Your junior high attempts at sarcasm are as sad as they are boring and ineffectual.”
Well if that isn’t the sink calling the bath white.
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To the white commenters:
Are you racist?
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“Are you racist?”
Depends on the point of view.
Do I joke around with stereotypes? Indeed, I joke about my self being a half-breed.
Do I see skin colour? I do, but I don’t see people with lighter-skin as being better than anyone. Nor do I see the need for people to degrade people of their own said heritage simply because they have darker/lighter skin.
Nor do I see Europeans(in the racial term, not national term), Africans, Asians or anyone else (ethnic included) as being better than any of the others.
So am I a racist? Only outside views can judge.
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@Robert
How goes it?
Some 80’s ‘choons’ for ya…
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3AEBplqtb4)
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mi49eeCwnVQ)
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daJ15enu8PI)
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccenFp_3kq8)
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDNAQAYhvmo)
I have ALL of these on vinyl….
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@ Demerera
Nice selection thanks. It goes good thanks how are you?
Here’s one for you –
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWz9VN40nCA)
lol
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Why the heck is Santorum, the GOP’s culture warrior, shooting right now in lieu of Trayvon’s death? Trying to shore up votes with the GOP faithful?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/23/rick-santorum-gun-firing-range-obama_n_1375756.html
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@Yawn
Depends on the point of view.
Do I joke around with stereotypes? Indeed, I joke about my self being a half-breed.
Do I see skin colour? I do, but I don’t see people with lighter-skin as being better than anyone. Nor do I see the need for people to degrade people of their own said heritage simply because they have darker/lighter skin.
Nor do I see Europeans(in the racial term, not national term), Africans, Asians or anyone else (ethnic included) as being better than any of the others.
So am I a racist? Only outside views can judge
A simple ‘maybe’ would’ve sufficed.
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“A simple ‘maybe’ would’ve sufficed.”
But that’s the point, I can not logically call myself a racist when the term gets thrown out left and right with tons of meanings.
I will say I AM somewhat bias when it comes to racial viewpoints, but in any point I’m not as delusional as some of these sad whites here.
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@bliff:
“why is a race realist like myself necessarily an insecure person?”
Why? Because the term race realism is pseudoname for racism. I know because I know a former racist skinhead who is now just a “race realist” and decent individual 😀 osrry, a good person like you americans like to say.
Also if you were secure you would not have the need to pop up here arguing back and forth, you would be happy to be among your ideological brethren. But you are no quite that sure, so you come here to get your “I am right” fixes. If you were secure about your thoughts, you would not need those. You would not have to prove anything.
Like the japanese say: A Mountain does not move.
@truthtobetold:
I try to not to be one. It is not that easy in our racially loaded world.
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Yawn,
Racism is NOT logical at all, and most likely, the ones who know what a racist is are likely the ones who have been victims of racism.
You say you’re not as delusional as some of the sad whites here, but regardless of whether you believe it or not, you are showing some symptoms.
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Article on the devaluation of Black life.
http://www.theroot.com/buzz/devaluation-black-life
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@brothawolf
I suppose I can’t blame you for not knowing what a philosopher is, as apparently you have never been the victim of philosophy.
I wonder, can you recognize silly when it doesn’t come from you? Can you learn to recognize silly when it does come from you?
You too are showing some symptoms.
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Just reading these few comments…
They have answered all my questions.
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@Don
I know what a philosopher is, and even if I didn’t, that doesn’t make my point any less important as opposed to yours.
To answer your question let me say this. For a long time, I didn’t recognize silly. I was blind. Until, somehow I started seeing what I could not see. After a while, what seemed normal was really insane.
So, not to sound arrogant, I would have to say yes.
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Bi-racial = ’51/50′ to most. Choose, enlist, shoot.
Logic and rationality are best expressed in class.
Class is a racist system in America.
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Zimmerman is supposedly, bi-racial.
He shot, He chose a side.
Obviously, it wasn’t the Black side
Unless, Zimmerman is a moderate in the age of Obama.
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personally, I’m dark skinned, and skin color has never been a problem with me at all, but this was still an interesting documentary. do other people face such deep problems regarding skin tone? I don’t think skin tone affects beauty, I’ve always seen it as facial structure, and having healthy, radiant skin. whether it looks like Iman’s or Doutzen Kroes. I’ve never associated dark skin with being “bad”, I’m actually shocked at how the “issue” was portrayed in this short film. Do people really skin bleach like that? I don’t understand, it doesn’t change their appearance, really, it’s just skin tone. Anyways, I thought this might be relevant to to this blog
http://vimeo.com/16210769
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@Robert
“Let’s get physical”…..now there’s an offer 😉
@Bulanik
Thanks for the link – quite a fusion of instruments, and culture there. Nice 🙂
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@ Bulanik
Thanks, that was quite a mix. 🙂
@Demerera and Bulanik
Some for the weekend:
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4t3qtgO1wHc)
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CH3rx8LhrQo&ob=av3e)
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aB96ObBuWfI)
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@sam
Also if you were secure you would not have the need to pop up here arguing back and forth, you would be happy to be among your ideological brethren.
Apparently, Sam you know nothing of the spirit of free speech or about the exchange of ideas. Sure, you can come here where everybody agrees with you and you can trash America, white people, and people who you don’t agree with you. I bet you would like no one to come here with any ideas different than your own. In this regard, I am your Worst Nightmare.
But you are no quite that sure, so you come here to get your “I am right” fixes. If you were secure about your thoughts, you would not need those.
Could this not apply to you and others on this blog who come here to think in unison? Maybe YOU are the one who needs to have his ideas validated by others who think just like you.
I think you may have a little of the White Saviour Complex, Sam. You make sure you’re out in front of this whole race thing, like Tim Wise, attacking other whites first, lest you be criticized. It must suck to think like you.
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@Bliff
Apparently, Sam you know nothing of the spirit of free speech or about the exchange of ideas. Sure, you can come here where everybody agrees with you and you can trash America, white people, and people who you don’t agree with you. I bet you would like no one to come here with any ideas different than your own. In this regard, I am your Worst Nightmare.
First off, free speech doesn’t just apply to you and your ilk. Just like you can say the most racist, redundant rhetoric that has already been said millions of times, Sam and everyone else can verbally disagree and argue.
Second, let’s be honest. Are you really here for an exchange of ideas, or are you here to suppress them with your “race realism”? It’s one thing to engage in forums and conversations, but it’s another to expect others to agree with you or else be discounted for being disagreeable.
Could this not apply to you and others on this blog who come here to think in unison? Maybe YOU are the one who needs to have his ideas validated by others who think just like you.
I think you may have a little of the White Saviour Complex, Sam. You make sure you’re out in front of this whole race thing, like Tim Wise, attacking other whites first, lest you be criticized. It must suck to think like you.
We come here to escape from the kind of mindset that surrounds us daily that tells us we are worthless, subhuman, and expendable. It’s the same mindset you have. It’s the same mindset that has maintained its position for hundreds of years. It has lived on by people like you.
Why is it that you and other whites who think like you can’t take criticism let alone advice about your habits, idealism, mentality, and past and present misdeeds? Why is that automatically seen as attacks on whites?
White people have used their white supremacist mindset to make it appear that blacks have biological and psychological deficiencies just because they aren’t white. It’s the kind of mentality you chose and accepted. So, why must we, including blacks, follow suit? Why is it wrong to think that this white supremacist campaign was a load of crap?
Tell me something: I’ve asked this question to Doug, but he hasn’t answered. Would you tell a black youth that he is she has inferior qualities like you believe in?
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@ Brothawolf
Bliff would be like most racist whites. He’d tell a black youth that he is a worthless, good for nothing, subhuman, expendable, unintelligent piece of scum…all with a smile and sleep like a baby.
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@Herneith
@personinmotion
I haven’t seen any answers to my question yet. Come on, let’s hear it. Why does a race realist like me necessarily have to be an insecure person?
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@brothawolf
I see your true colors. You just want to close your mind and think of all blacks as poor victims and all whites as racists. You have no desire to hear anyting else.
Are you really here for an exchange of ideas, or are you here to suppress them with your “race realism”? Of course. Any idea other than yours is suppression. That’s how you close down an exchange of ideas, you simply blame someone else for what you are actually doing.
We come here to escape from the kind of mindset that surrounds us daily that tells us we are worthless, subhuman, and expendable. To get away from this, you need to stay away from the black blogs, like this one. That’s the ONLY place you hear this crap. Sorry, it doesn’t happen out in the mainstream white world.
Why is it that you and other whites who think like you can’t take criticism let alone advice about your habits, idealism, mentality, and past and present misdeeds? Why is that automatically seen as attacks on whites? Reverse the situation between white and black. You are the one doing what you accuse me of doing.
Would you tell a black youth that he is she has inferior qualities like you believe in?I/i> I would give him a copy of Why Race Matters and ask him to read it and make up his own mind.
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@ Bliff about “race realism”
“The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly – it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over”
-Goebbels
PAZUZU!
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@seventeen: “Bi-racial = ’51/50′ to most. Choose, enlist, shoot.” only ignorant people think that. it’s not hard embracing two cultures, if the two parents are even of different cultures
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The trolls come here to feel better about themselves. Lol! Ha-lairious. They don’t have friends in real life so they create a virtual world to play out their race realist fantasy. What better way then in a predominantly POC forum. Almost reminiscent of the KKKs high days, how the good ol’ boys would run around in bedsheets terrorizing AA neighborhoods. Only difference between them now, is we can see right through them to their callous, stone-cold pericardium.
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@Bliff
Well, that makes us even because I can see your true colors as well…My mind is wide open, but what’s the use in hearing something demeaning a million and one times?
Besides, you’re one to talk. You closed your mind and think all blacks are violent, unintelligent racists and whites as poor, innocent, intelligent victims.
Are you really here for an exchange of ideas, or are you here to suppress them with your “race realism”?
Of course. Any idea other than yours is suppression. That’s how you close down an exchange of ideas, you simply blame someone else for what you are actually doing.
The only problem with that statement coming from you is that it’s nothing new. Everything you’ve said, other white commentors that pass by here have said the same thing. It’s nothing new or productive.
“We come here to escape from the kind of mindset that surrounds us daily that tells us we are worthless, subhuman, and expendable.”
To get away from this, you need to stay away from the black blogs, like this one. That’s the ONLY place you hear this crap. Sorry, it doesn’t happen out in the mainstream white world.
That doesn’t make a lick of sense. Why stay away from a site that help give mental and emotional refuge from a white supremacist society? That’s the point! We are sick and tired of hearing the kind of crap you and your kind dump on all the time in the mainstream white world.
“Why is it that you and other whites who think like you can’t take criticism let alone advice about your habits, idealism, mentality, and past and present misdeeds? Why is that automatically seen as attacks on whites?”
Reverse the situation between white and black. You are the one doing what you accuse me of doing.
You can’t even answer that question with a straight answer can you?
Besides, we’ve been harshly judged, criticized, and dehumanized ever since your ancestors first laid eyes on us, and it’s still continues to this day by racist white people such as yourself.
The problem is that to this day, many of you don’t know us. Yet, you see us as one fucked up monolith born to fail and run society to the ground. But like a typical immature male, you won’t admit it outright.
“Would you tell a black youth that he is she has inferior qualities like you believe in?I”
I would give him a copy of Why Race Matters and ask him to read it and make up his own mind.
Again, you can’t answer directly can you? I asked would YOU tell a black youth in your words and not someone else’s that they have inferior qualities as opposed to whites? Yes or no.
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@Bliff
I haven’t seen any answers to my question yet. Come on, let’s hear it. Why does a race realist like me necessarily have to be an insecure person?
Let me take a whack at this:
It’s because you need to somehow feel justified and proud of being white despite the horrible sins you’ve committed on the people of color who’s scars are still visible today.
You want to take somehow take comfort in that what happened in the bloodied past was somehow mere proof of the supposed supposed superiority of whites.
You want to feel better about yourself being a white person because maybe, just maybe you have nothing else going on and achieved very little or nothing at all compared to the POC, especially blacks who have done and accomplished more than you.
Lastly, you want to make black victims of past and present crimes somehow responsible for their own destruction and you need to prove that white people are superior by hearing about white accomplishments, white inventions and their inventors, and biological intelligence theories that places whites on certain pedestals while painting black people as naturally inferior.
In other words you need black people to fail and fall to lift your depressed ass up.
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Rekia Boyd. That is all.
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@ Bliff
“I haven’t seen any answers to my question yet. Come on, let’s hear it. Why does a race realist like me necessarily have to be an insecure person?”
I can offer some more. Sorry about the length but I feel that just posting each point without explanation wouldn’t say much.
Because race realists, like all racists, are lacking something in their lives. They are also display many fears.
1. The Fear of having no significance in the world. Human beings naturally want to leave their own impact, their own legacy. Being white guaranteed you could at least be a part of a collective one, no matter your own significance. Race realism provides a way to justify ignoring the legacy of others, or at least injecting yourself into theirs.
2. They have been hurt so badly by something that they need to lash out at an acceptable target. (Projecting their pain on entire group instead of logically thinking about why they feel that way) Black people have always been an acceptable group to tarnish and abuse, especially people who need to lash out at someone. Race realism provides the vehicle to do it with in a world where blatant racism isn’t protected anymore.
4. Fear of loss. They might be at risk of losing something and need someone to blame for that. (That way they are not responsible if they aren’t able to keep things stable in their lives.) It goes deeper than that though:
They realize that the “American Dream” (or it’s foreign equivalent) is not guaranteed. For the first time they are not entitled to the privileges that their “birthright” has always promised them, resources are too thin for that large piece of the pie their parents had. They just can’t keep up anymore without some sort of head start, they’ve never had to before. They aren’t prepared to compete with everyone else and it scares them. They also notice that other groups are tired of taking less than what they deserve. So they think that if they retreat into that idea of race realism they can justify getting what they didn’t work for and hopefully keep some of that extra privilege for themselves.
6. Fear of being alone, they need some sort of forced solidarity. They realize that their whiteness can be used as that tie, and they obsess over ways to separate themselves from people of other groups. They view it as a “club” they can be a part of, they can be “elite” with people they have at least one thing in common with. They think their whiteness can protect them, and race realism, of course can alleviate that insecurity. Sort of like “mean-girls”, or the Irish.
7. They know that racism is wrong, but due to their own inferiority complex, family history, or lack of pride for themselves they need to excuse it. They are afraid of being “bad” or “less than pristine”. They use race realism because it provides the views they need to justify it without really getting their hands dirty with slurs and intimidation.
8. They are just paranoid enough to believe the other races are working together to take them off of that pedestal, and they’re afraid of what those people can do. At their worst they think that if they give up these outdated viewpoints, they’re opening the door to a reverse situation with a lot of vindictive and angry people waiting to show them what that racism feels like. If they retreat to these old views of people of color without the violent vitriol (aka race realism), they can divide and conquer (hence the “Asians are also better than blacks” stuff), and keep their ivory tower in tact.
9. Plain old jealousy and envy. What better way to rob a more accomplished person of their pride and dignity than to dehumanize them? Race realism provides the way to to that without having to think of your own personal lack of accomplishment. You can dismiss them and everything they’ve done by seeing their race as a realistic flaw that diminishes them.
It’s why so many white people with insecurities seem to latch onto race realism. Your own failings hurt less when you can dull that pain, after all, it’s easier to lose out when you can bring down others with you. That is why race realists spend so much time trying to prove their views, especially to the very people they’re talking about. They need to feel like they’ve one upped someone or brought them down. How else can they feel any sort of importance?
When you feel small, and worthless, it’s easy to project your own failings onto others, especially when those “others” aren’t as protected as you are. Pretty much, the typical motivation of a bully, expanded to a whole point of view.
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Ace,
I like your responses better than I like mine.
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@bilff:
“I am your Worst Nightmare.”
BUAHHAHHAHHAH! That was hilarious, man!!
“Maybe YOU are the one who needs to have his ideas validated by others who think just like you.”
I don’t care one way or the other what anybody thinks about me or my ideas. They just happen to be in line with many here in many cases, BUT not in every case. Yes, we all dislike racist like you, that is the common theme here.
“I think you may have a little of the White Saviour Complex, Sam.”
This is gettin funnier and funnier! Who I have been saving here? You, on the other hand, are trying to save the American White Man. I’m not even imagin that I could or should save anyone. They are quite capable to save themselves.
“You make sure you’re out in front of this whole race thing, like Tim Wise, attacking other whites first, lest you be criticized”
Ööh, no. Sometimes I don’t visit here for weeks. Also I don’t wish nor need to be in front of anything. And, just so that you know it, I have been critized here by black, OH YES, black commentators and some whites too. My posts have been deleted many times. I have been called names. I have been told to get out. I have been etcetc. I guess you have not seen those, or, being the kind of guy you are, conviniently forget those.
“I haven’t seen any answers to my question yet. Come on, let’s hear it. Why does a race realist like me necessarily have to be an insecure person?”
Because you are scared little man inside. That is why. People who look different scare you so much you think about them all day long. That is why you are racist who calls him self a race realist. You are too scared even be open about your racism. Perhaps one day you over come your fears. Then you will no longer be insecure and so weak.
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@Robert
Good selection, havent heard that 2nd one for a looooong time. Happy da’z’e….
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@ Demerera
Thanks 🙂
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Hey Sam,
I had another white troll used that same “Worst Nightmare” crap on me. I these white racists think they’re some kind of superhero or something.
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@ brothawolf,
Thanks, but I think yours were a little more concise.
Also, racist superheroes? That makes sense, it can explain the generic batman back story they all seem to have.
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@ Abagond,
Could you please write a post about the recent research regarding LOW white-racist IQs?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/27/intelligence-study-links-prejudice_n_1237796.html
Doug1 and company have spent so much time talking about Black IQs.
What about research that came out in the last few months on the astonishingly LOW white-racist IQs from an actually credible source!
Here is the original
http://pss.sagepub.com/content/early/2012/01/04/0956797611421206.abstract
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@personinmotion,
I doubt Doug1 and his like-minded crew would pay much attention to this. They will claim it as being leftist which automatically discredits it. Then, they will go at great lengths how it’s just plain wrong by posting their HBD information. In the end they will ignore any credible source that makes them look like simpletons. If there’s one thing they don’t like to be is wrong.
@Ace,
Exactly. It’s laughable at best.
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On another thread Melissa Jenkins said this:
Here is the picture:
Read more here:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2117638/Missouri-campground-deaths-3-children-woman-dead-Blue-Springs-resort.html?ito=feeds-newsxmlhttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2117638/Missouri-campground-deaths-3-children-woman-dead-Blue-Springs-resort.html?ito=feeds-newsxml
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@ Personinmotion,
Oh wow…that cracks me up. Oh the irony of it all…it all makes sense now.
@ Brothawolf,
Isn’t it a never-ending cycle with them? They’ll be offended by something that says racists have low IQs, while at the same time running around throwing their HBD nonsense at everyone . If even their racism shows they’re lacking, what else would they have to feel important with?
It’s so laughable, every time I hear it I have shake my head. Soon they’re start doing the, “Oh I was attacked in a black neighborhood in ‘generic-black-place’ at night by a whole gang of the entire population of Detroit, who all conveniently had low IQs, were thugs, and all dropped out of school!”
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@ Abagond,
Those poor little girls…
I am sure that if they were three little white girls, there’d be a huge outcry over it, i.e. Casey Anthony. I don’t know what’s worse, that this story was largely ignored, or that people are already trying to excuse what she’s done.
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Thank you for posting the photo of these little girls. It is so hard to keep from crying especially when I look at the youngest girl.
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@Ace
I am sure that if they were three little white girls, there’d be a huge outcry over it, i.e. Casey Anthony. I don’t know what’s worse, that this story was largely ignored, or that people are already trying to excuse what she’s done.
Either way it’s maddening. It just goes to show how the white owned media tries to portray white people as opposed to POC.
Abagond, will you do a post on this and how this presents an ongoing trend the news media has on children of color as opposed to white children?
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Ace,
For me, I’m personally sick of hearing of those “I was attacked by a pack/gang or black men for no reason” stories as if they are legitimate reasons to start becoming racists, race realists or whatever they call themselves. I see it like this:
1. They were attacked by a group of black people once and it happened a long time ago. Like they tell us to get over centuries of slavery and oppression, we should tell them to get over that one incident. It’s funny how they want us to forget about the brutal past, but they hang on to this one brawl, if it happened.
2. A group of black people who’ve committed a crime equals to the majority or all of the black population with them. So, them getting their ass whooped by several blacks is like being attacked by millions of black people at one time in their minds.
3. If what they say is true, who’s to say they haven’t started anything with them in the first place? It’s no surprised that they may leave out that bit of information to justify their fears and hatred.
4. Most importantly, why should anyone believe people who believe in outdated race-based pseudoscience? Plus, we hear very often of stories of white people who have committed crimes against other whites or themselves, BUT they would blame it on a black person who NEVER EXISTED! So, why should we believe them especially when they bring it up at their convenience? They could be lying just to get attention because apparently, they can’t get any in the real world.
Honestly, this is the definition of a fractured or dismembered mind at its worst. lol
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@brothawolf:
There’s a lot of that going on around with the racists who troll here.
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I haven’t seen any answers to my question yet. Come on, let’s hear it. Why does a race realist like me necessarily have to be an insecure person?
The question you ask answers it all. I don’t have to tell you squat. Why do you care what others think espeacilly over the internet? Take your lithium! Keep the gut laughs coming!
That’s how you close down an exchange of ideas, you simply blame someone else for what you are actually doing.
What exchange of ideas? What’s he doing now? You can now add being able to see through your computer what others are doing! The receptors in your brain are causing you to emit subdural hematological gaseous anomalies via the internet. Take some ex-lax!
Sorry, it doesn’t happen out in the mainstream white world
Who cares? All those that give a hoot what ‘Bliff’ thinks, raise your hand!
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“All those that give a hoot what ‘Bliff’ thinks, raise your hand!”
**Crickets chirping**
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@ Brothawolf,
I agree wholeheartedly. Either way it’s terrible, and I frankly am tired of seeing little brown children ignored until it’s time for white people to use them for an agenda.
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It’s just plain bothersome, and it always drags any conversation from serious and thought out down to just racist ranting and raving.
1. They also want people to forget every racist incident that has happened within the last twenty years. Meanwhile, they can remember that they were bullied by a black jock in high school, convenient right?
2. I know, it’s just so maddening because they always are the first to say “Oh don’t call all whites racist that’s so offensive!” They’re suspiciously fine with people making all sorts of blanket statements about black people.
3. They see themselves as guiltless by default. They never seem to talk about what they said to get that supposed “mob” after them in the first place, and yet they are real quick to blame any person of color who is attacked or harassed by a white person. .
4. Exactly! I know i’ve said it before in other posts, but even law enforcement calls the “Black people did it” excuse as a “eyebrow raiser” which tells them that the white culprit might be lying. It’s just been done so many times and every time white people actually committed the crime. I think they’re used to the days when using that was a code word for “Don’t cross me or I’ll have a lynch mob by your house this evening”, so they’re surprised that black people here aren’t taking them seriously.
It’s just so hilarious to watch them crash and burn while they scramble to post whatever copy and paste arguments from other “realists” who got theirs from Stormfront or something. You ever notice how they’re back-story all ends with them suddenly knowing “the truth” about black people, yet they believe no one here could possibly know the “truth” about them?
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@Herneith
“I haven’t seen any answers to my question yet. Come on, let’s hear it. Why does a race realist like me necessarily have to be an insecure person?
The question you ask answers it all. I don’t have to tell you squat. Why do you care what others think espeacilly over the internet? Take your lithium! Keep the gut laughs coming!”
Again, Herneith, instead of a sensible exchange, you retort with childish remarks. It’s a simple question. Why don’t you act like an adult and actually respond?? It appears that you don’t have an answer. I think you’re the insecure one and you can’t respond intelligently.
So again – Why does a race realist like me necessarily have to be an insecure person?
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@leigh204
Rah! Rah! Go team, go. Good chearleading, Leigh. Got substance?
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@ Bliff,
Well I laid out plenty of reasons further up, and so did Brothawolf. It’s telling that you ignored those. So…maybe YOU should follow your own advice, act like an adult, and actually respond. Make sure you respond “intelligently”!
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@Ace
Excuse me, but is your other name Herneith?? She was the one who I directed the comment towards.
I will handle you later.
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@Ace
Everybody is guiltless by default, until they have shown otherwise. 🙂
@Bliff
I looked in to the “race realism” that you’re talking about. What a load of crap. Anybody who actually believes that is predisposed to believe it. Statistics never give you the statistics of how many statistics were thrown away until the desired result is achieved. Statistics exist, or can quickly be created, to show that any race is “inferior”.
Here is your “worst nightmare”. One of my father’s best friends and my Godfather, Charles F. Bolden, Jr. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_F._Bolden,_Jr.
I don’t understand how in one breath you can ridicule someone for “caring what others think, especially over the internet”, and then insist for the umpteenth time that someone tells you what they think, over the internet.
You’ve broken rule #1 of trolling, make damn sure you’re never guilty of the same thing you ridicule others for… closely followed by “no spelling or grammatical errors”. Your trolling-fu could use some polish.
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Your trolling-fu could use some polish.
”
”
@ Don
LOL!
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Here’s another ‘charming’ incident – good grief, is there something in the air?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-17509969
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@ Bliff,
If you can’t respond like your expecting other people here to, then maybe you shouldn’t tell Hernieth what to reply to or how to reply. Your “like adults” part was particularly hilarious. Scolding only works when you do what you tell others to do.
@ Don,
I could agree with that.
Also Charles F. Bolden? Wow. Perhaps Bliff will try to will that out of existence.
@ Sepultura13,
Oh but don’t you know it never happens? No one guns down black teens! Right? It’s all in your imagination!
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@ Ace:
Oh, trust me, I know!!! Just like black woman roam the streets, just SEARCHING and LOOKING for ‘innocent’ WW to splash acid on because we’re so ‘jealous of their beauty’! 🙄
I just realized something – it’s near the end of the month, isn’t it? It would appear that the resident trolls are low on their much-needed meds…that would explain why they’re crawling out of the woodwork. I’m really trying to see if there’s a pattern, LOL! 😎
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@ sepultura13,
Yes, I knew it! I’m going to have to watch out because Tyra Banks, Naomi Cambell, and Michelle Obama must all be waiting in the bushes to throw acid on me due to my illustrious “white beauty”!
Attention starved wishful thinking, I suppose. I mean, they might actually have to better themselves if they didn’t stop inventing black boogeymen. And as we all know, they don’t want that.
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@ Ace
1. The Fear of having no significance ….
2. They have been hurt so badly by something ….
4. Fear of loss.
6. Fear of being alone…
7. due to their own inferiority complex, family history, or lack of pride for themselves ….
8. They are just paranoid enough to believe the other races are working together to take them off of that pedestal…
9. Plain old jealousy and envy. …
When you feel small, and worthless….
Ace, what did you do? Just go to a psychology textbook and list every emotional disorder you could find? That’s exactly what it sounds like you did here. You might have had a chance if you listed one or two maladies, but you didn’t. You simply listed every one that you could find. That does not seem realistic.
I am having a hard time believing you actually wrote all those 10 points or so yourself. You took that from somewhere, didn’t you?
You failed to show how you know I have these maladies.
As I seen before, you blacks see race realism as an emotional response,i.e, fear, inferiority, paranoid, jealousy, envy. In reality, I believe in race realism as a result of what I have learned over a period of time. It’s a rational-brain thing, not an emotional-brain thing.
I see that is a big difference between blacks and whites. Blacks tend to process things emotionally, and especially taking everything personally. They have a hard time abstracting and thinking about things rationally compared to whites.
You can see in on this blog. Most of the white commenters try to explain things rationally. The blacks are normally responding not only emotionally, but from their own narrow, self-interest, i.e, what’s it mean to me, and only me, or maybe only to black people.
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@ Bliff,
Actually I came up with it all myself. I’m just highly educated and I also pay attention to how people treat each other. It makes it easier to be able to see patterns and lump them together.
I don’t know you personally. I can only view things academically and list reasons why people choose race realism. You fit many of the examples based on your responses. You seem to have a need to come here and say racist things. You appear to get something out of repeating the same arguments, even though you are constantly refuted. You seem to have a need to feel better than someone, and race realism is your way because you don’t have to actually work to be better. You can just list some “facts” about a certain group and have a way to put yourself above them. If you were truly secure with yourself, you wouldn’t feel the need to do that.
Why do you personally need to subscribe to that view? Why do you need to feel better than black people? What do you gain from pointing out how white people are “better”? Do you feel better when you’ve talked down to a black person?
Race is an emotional response because it effects them personally. You don’t like being insulted, right? Well, why should they have to sit there and be talked down to? If race realists really thought rationally, they would be able to shift their opinion as they receive new evidence instead of just retreating into the same dogma. People wouldn’t be racist if they thought logically or rationally. But people who are racist have a self-interest in catering to their own ego and that prevents them from applying any real logic into a conversation.
For example: You have no real evidence of your conclusion about who thinks rationally and who thinks emotionally, but you do have your racist view. But that racist view just twists things so that it fits your perspective instead of you trying to understand another perspective.
Most white commenters come on here and say some god-awful things and black people are not suddenly irrational for arguing back with them. Many blacks have said rational things that you’ve chosen to ignore. If you only think in a way that caters to your racist views and show no interest in seeing things from a their perspective, then you are the one thinking within narrow self-interest. The only reality that exists in a racist’s mind is their own, because that is the only reality that would truly cater to an idea where a person’s race determines their potential and their character. Real life doesn’t work that way.
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@Ace
Yes!!
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@Ace
Everything you say about me, I could say about you, and it would be equally, if not more, valid.
You seem to have a need to come here and say racist things. Not true, I come here because I find the subject of race relations interesting. I have no other reason to come here. I have little to do with black people in my real life, so my interest is not emotional, just an interest, like someone may be interested in astronomy, gardening, or weaving.
You appear to get something out of repeating the same arguments, even though you are constantly refuted. It is your narrow opinion that I am refuted. Usually all I get on this site is Black Logic – ya know, trash talking. The black commenters here, including you, feel that if they can gang up and trash talk someone with a different opinion, then they’ve “won”.
You seem to have a need to feel better than someone</iat Not true. I believe black people are less intelligent, are more impulsive, and plan less than white people because that explains the condition of black people in US. You are lazy and just want to blame your condition on whites, instead of improving your own life. That is very black.
People wouldn’t be racist if they thought logically or rationally. Not true. Racism, or race realism, is based on there being significant differences between the races. According to my observation, that true. By the way, I was a race realist before coming to this site. Since I’ve been here, I am MORE of race realist than before. The blacks here are not interested in being fair or even discussing race relations fairly. They simply want to bash whites. Abagond himself is no better.
You have no real evidence of your conclusion about who thinks rationally and who thinks emotionally It is based upon what I’ve observed. It is ESPECIALLY based upon what I have learned here on this very blog.
Most white commenters come on here and say some god-awful things and black people You unfairly trash white people along with nearly all the other blacks on this blog.
If you only think in a way that caters to your racist views and show no interest in seeing things from a their perspective You’re still the pot calling the kettle black. You have no interest in any views other than your own Black Racist views.
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@Bulanik
And, white men’s rate of suicide is also the highest. They just can’t control their destructive emotions! They kill themselves at the highest rates when that ‘famous’ rationality and control breaks down
Cheap shot. I expected out of you. However, you’ve just degraded to the level of the other black commenters here.
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@Bulanik
I expected better out of you.
I do need to proofread a lot better.
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Ah, yes – the maturity level is now exposed! Basically, that quote can be broken down thusly:
“I’m made out of rubber and you’re made out of glue.
Everything you say bounces off of me and sticks – to – YOU!!!”
Wow, that took SO much thought!
* dying with laughter *
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@Bulanik
in their upside-down, lizard-brain way, Yep, no credibility left, whatsoever.
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@Bulanik
Wow. This is really interesting and makes a lot of sense. Mental health is a very serious issue and its often not taken seriously at all. Its so important to understand and appreciate what makes different people tick.
Thanks for sharing this awareness about this affliction that can and does affect such a large group of people.
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So again – Why does a race realist like me necessarily have to be an insecure person? ,
You don’t get it do you? i don’t have to anything except stay black and die and that includes responding ‘sensibly’ to your maniacal ramblings. You are to be roundly mocked and shown to be the buffoon you truly are. What was my first clue? The onset of your posts here. As soon as you made mention of being a ‘race realist’, I could, and would never take you and others of your ilk seriously. I must however laud you for the unremitting laughter you provide! Discuss!
I will handle you later.
Is that a threat or a promise? Sober up!
They have a hard time abstracting and thinking about things rationally compared to whites.
How do you explain all those white women at the BINGO Parlour, fighting over ‘lucky’ tables and robbing jackpot winners as they leave?
Most of the white commenters try to explain things rationally.
You mean you and your ‘race realist’ toadies! The other whites are just nuts.
The blacks are normally responding not only emotionally, but from their own narrow, self-interest
I don’t know about the other woe-betided, downtrodden negroes here, but I respond from a position of jocularity. You are hilarious.
what’s it mean to me, and only me, or maybe only to black people.
Your right! All I can think of is winning at BINGO tonight!
I believe black people are less intelligent, are more impulsive, and plan less than white people because that explains the condition of black people in US.
I believe white people are perverts, have sex less than black people because the men have small genitals. That explains their need to deride and denigrate black people, at their base they are insecure!
According to my observation, that true.
You are full of shi+. You just wrote that you have little or no exposure to blacks in the real world. How can your observations be true?
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@Ace
“Everything you say about me, I could say about you, and it would be equally, if not more, valid.”
Would it? I don’t see myself coming online and throwing my opinions about an entire race of people out as fact. I also don’t constantly denigrate all people with my statements. I have nothing to get out of it, and I’ve worked on myself enough that I don’t need to trash others to feel better.
” Not true, I come here because I find the subject of race relations interesting. I have no other reason to come here. I have little to do with black people in my real life, so my interest is not emotional, just an interest, like someone may be interested in astronomy, gardening, or weaving.”
First of all, your responses seem awful emotional for just an “interest”. Secondly, if you have little to do with black people in your life, why do you think you know so much about them?
“It is your narrow opinion that I am refuted. Usually all I get on this site is Black Logic – ya know, trash talking. The black commenters here, including you, feel that if they can gang up and trash talk someone with a different opinion, then they’ve “won”.”
Including me? Yet again, you’ve grouped me with black people just because I disagree with you in a way you do not like. This proves the problem with your bias. You are so intent in proving something about black people that you have not been able to actually have an actual conversation. You have trashed talked plenty of people here, then say blanket statements about blacks as if you’ve proven a point or won. So how are you really any better?
“Not true. I believe black people are less intelligent, are more impulsive, and plan less than white people because that explains the condition of black people in US. You are lazy and just want to blame your condition on whites, instead of improving your own life. That is very black.”
Says the person who needs to portray blacks as inferior? Could I say that is “very white”? How do you know that I am lazy or blame my condition on whites? Again, because I don’t agree with you? I’ve had a blessed life, that many people of all races would envy.
“Not true. Racism, or race realism, is based on there being significant differences between the races. According to my observation, that true. By the way, I was a race realist before coming to this site. Since I’ve been here, I am MORE of race realist than before. The blacks here are not interested in being fair or even discussing race relations fairly. They simply want to bash whites. Abagond himself is no better.”
But there isn’t significant difference. The real world doesn’t work that way. Abagond is no more likely to like watermelon than you are. The fact that some article on an HBD site says otherwise doesn’t make that fact true. You don’t discuss race or race relations fairly, you tease, denigrate and talk down to the black people here, and then end up saying racist things that make your arguments fall apart. You simply want to trash blacks, so in reality, you can’t complain. At least Abagond talks about actual behavior and takes time to say “not all”.
“It is based upon what I’ve observed. It is ESPECIALLY based upon what I have learned here on this very blog.”
But you said you had little to do with blacks in your life. So which is it? And you can’t learn how an entire population thinks from a blog, so just where did you draw your conclusions?
” You unfairly trash white people along with nearly all the other blacks on this blog.”
Odd, did I say white people were “less intelligent” or “more impulsive”? Did I make blanket statements? I think you did that in regards to black people. Holding people accountable for their words and actions does not equate to unfairly trashing. This is not preschool. You don’t get your hand held after saying rude things to people and acting like a petulant child. There are plenty of white people who can have normal conversations here without having to insult black people, and they don’t feel unfairly trashed. If you didn’t make blanket statements or prove Abagond right, you wouldn’t get the response you do.
“You’re still the pot calling the kettle black. You have no interest in any views other than your own Black Racist views.”
Says the guy who dismisses any views that disagree with him as “black racism”? You prove my point every time.
Again, if you were more secure with yourself, you wouldn’t have to act this way.
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@Herneith:
OK, you won’t answer me directly, so I’ll assume you don’t have a good answer. That is very black of you, to do things the hard way, like drug dealer who work hard at dealing drugs, but won’t work hard at real work. You’d rather spend time childishly mocking me, but not take the small amount of time required to compose a real answer.
BINGO!! You do lead a boring life, don’t you?
You just wrote that you have little or no exposure to blacks in the real world. How can your observations be true? No, I said ” I have little to do with black people in my real life”, meaning the ones I do know have no real effect on me, one way or the other. There are other ways to know things, i.e, the MEDIA, including Internet, books, TV, articles, etc. In fact, you can learn more about more people this way, than from the just the few people a person actually encounters in their daily life.
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Almost nothing you say can be refuted because your statements generally lack any substance to begin with. When confronted with information you don’t like or want to hear, you just ignore or shut it down with preprogrammed responses and snarky comebacks.
Furthermore, I can tell that half the horse nuggets that come out of your mouth have their origin in someone else’s backside. You often use key words and phrases that many White supremacists use. I can definitely tell you read a lot of White racist propaganda.
You don’t have an “opinion”, Bliff. You parrot someone else’s opinion, which you attempt to smear on everyone around you. Do you even know how to work the cockpit or is it on auto-pilot?
Come on now, just admit that your “race realism” is just a euphemism for your narrow-minded racist beliefs. Quit this pseudo-intellectual posturing. You’re being disingenuous here.
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There are other ways to know things, i.e, the MEDIA, including Internet, books, TV, articles, etc. In fact, you can learn more about more people this way, than from the just the few people a person actually encounters in their daily life.
Yeah, the bloke that lives down the road from me is just like Homer Simpson and on a Friday he likes to get in a drunken brawl.
@Bulanik, the man I refer to does like slightly yellow due to alcohol poisoning no doubt, but he’s ginger. Is this one of the effects of the illness you were talking about here? If so, then its true, you can learn as much watching sitcoms on the telly as in real life. Its very sad to see him chasing the kids down the road chanting ‘you little p*ki f*ckers’ when he’s in a rage though but I guess thats one of the other side effects ….
P.S If you agree with people like them will they be less likely to remonstrate and get upset all the time?
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@Bliff
”I have little to do with black people in my real life”, meaning the ones I do know have no real effect on me, one way or the other. There are other ways to know things, i.e, the MEDIA, including Internet, books, TV, articles, etc. In fact, you can learn more about more people this way, than from the just the few people a person actually encounters in their daily life.
Let me get this straight. Are you trying to say that you learn about black people from the media (which is in caps), internet, books, TV, articles, etc.?
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@SomeGuy
babble, babble, babble. That’s all I got out your post. Obviously, you have nothing to say, but to insult me. Why don’t you try countering what I said? Instead of just insulting me?
Here’s one for you, genius. Many people here say I am a race realist because I am insecure, low esteem, whatever. I say it is just a conclusion I’ve come to based on what I’ve seen, read, etc.
All the great progressive Black Minds here have not been able to construct an intelligent response. All I get is abuse.
Since you’ve stepped in it, why don’t you try answering the question – if you can. I’m betting you’ll just throw more racist insults out there. Get going, genius, let’s see your response.
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@Bulanik
Whites tend to process things emotionally, and especially taking everything personally. They have a hard time abstracting and thinking about things rationally compared to blacks.
Those 2 preceding paragraphs are from Bliff above, but I have changed around the ‘colours’.
Nice second grade try, Bulanik. Can you color also? Perhaps you don’t fully understand language just yet, since you’re still in second grade, mentally.
Just randoming changing words around in a sentence does not result in a new sentence with any meaning. Watch, genius:
Words around does in a not sentence result in a just new meaning randoming any changing sentence with.
See, no meaning. That’s what you did.
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I see Bliff hasn’t answered by question, and yet, he still parades as if he is the holder of knowledge.
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@Don
I looked in to the “race realism” that you’re talking about. What a load of crap. You haven’t explained why.
Anybody who actually believes that is predisposed to believe it. Not true. There are differences between the races. Nearly all the blacks on this site would believe they are different than whites, though for different reasons than my reasons. There does not have to be any predisposition. From what I have observed, read, and come to understand, there are race differences. Can you show that there are not race differences, or do you just assume we are all “equal” in every respect.
Statistics never give you the statistics of how many statistics were thrown away until the desired result is achieved. Inane, meaningless statement.
Statistics exist, or can quickly be created, to show that any race is “inferior”. You need to read more closely. I never said “inferior” because that would mean it in an absolute way. I said blacks are less intelligent, more impulsive, and plan ahead less than whites. That means the distribution curves for these traits for blacks are shifted down from those of whites. You better learn to be more precise with your words, Don, or you’ll get ripped up on this site.
Here is your “worst nightmare”. One of my father’s best friends and my Godfather, Charles F. Bolden, Jr. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_F._Bolden,_Jr.
Bolden is black and an adminstrator at NASA. How is this my worst nightmare? Are you so naive to think that I don’t know there are Oprahs, Obamas, Herman Cains, and Boldens?? What did I say up above, Don. Intelligence is normally distributed among individuals of a population. Decades of evidence has shown the black distribution is shifted down by 1 standard deviation. That means that there are intelligent black people, just not as many, proportionately, as there are intelligent white people. Very intelligent black people are VERY rare. This explains why there will always be a few Oprahs, etc., but blacks overall are less intelligent than whites.
You better have your ducks in a much better order next time, Don, before you decide to take me on.
and then insist for the umpteenth time that someone tells you what they think, over the internet. If Herneith didn’t want to respond to my question, she should have just ignored me. But she kept on responding with childish insults. So, I kept baiting her, just to show everyone how childish she was responding.
You’ve broken rule #1 of trolling, make damn sure you’re never guilty of the same thing you ridicule others for And where did I do that, Don?
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@brothawolf
I’m done with you, ‘bro. You’re boring and you have nothing to say.You just keep attacking me instead of actually responding to anything I say. I get enough of that here. I can’t answer all you clowns.
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@Bliff
You can’t even bring yourself to answer a simple question because you are afraid that it will reveal a lot about how you think. So, for now, I’ll have to say that the answer is ‘yes’.
One more thing, I’m not the bully here and neither is Herneith, JT, Someguy, and anyone who questions your intelligence. YOU ARE.
You care that grade school kid that picks on other kids just to make you feel better, and just when they say “No more!” and dish back what you dish you, you accuse them of attacking you crying about how they are insulting you. That is how a bully operates. That is how YOU operate.
You are afraid of answering questions that expose your true nature for being here and how you think on a regular basis. That’s why you won’t answer certain questions and refute the answers to your questions. You are showing everyone here including Abagond that you are really a cowardly bully with a racist agenda and a fragile personality. You are extremely dense not to see it just like you and the rest of your race realist drones are too ignorant to know that your asses get whooped whenever you step inside this domain.
But you know what, I don’t want to waste my time talking to someone brave enough to say the things he does behind a computer, but wouldn’t say them to the very people he has such disdain for. At the end of the day you will continue thinking the way you think, and I will do the same.
Just two things to remember, don’t tell us how to think…or not think, and too much TV is bad for you.
Sayonara.
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@ Bliff
Bliffy. old bean. No need to get your undies in a twist. I mean, do you really think you are the first bigot to come on here, stirring up trouble while pretending to be completely unbiased? Sadly, no. You aren’t the first and I’m fairly certain you won’t be the last.
You say you are a race realist. Ohhhh, how exciting! My nips are tingling!
Tell me, old Bliffenstein, how many races are there and who is a part of each race? After that, tell me how are mixed race people categorized. Thirdly, tell me which part of the genome is responsible for the differences in each race. While you are at it how you got into your “hobby” in the first place.
Now, before you go typing away, I’d also like peer reviewed sources for all of your info in triplicate. Before, I can evaluate you, I need to cut through all the semantics and know exactly what race realism means to you and what evidence has made you a staunch believer. Then I can answer your question properly.
You see, old Blifferatu. You can’t answer any of that. You believe in race realism because you want to believe in it. You don’t need “fact realism”. You believe from the heart. Emotional, like a prepubescent girl. You fight from your emotions and project this onto others. You emotionally insecure thing, you.
Confirmation bias is your friend. Give him a big hug for me.
You’re a neophyte, broham. Everyone here has dealt with people like you countless times. It is we who are tired of people like you. You aren’t making any new claims. Do a search on Abagond’s blog and you’ll find scores of counter arguments to your foolishness.
Now, dissolve and bring me what I asked for, so I can crush your bigoted ego with the heel of my boot.
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@Bliff
Actually I did explain why it’s crap, but you chose to dismiss it as “inane”.
By all appearances you believe what you want to believe. If you come across something that you like, you assume it to be accurate. If you come across something that is not in accord with what you want to be true, you brush it off as meaningless, or you chalk it up to 1 in a million.
So I’m going to get ripped up on this site huh? By who, you?
One moment please.
Okay, whew, you can rest easy now. I lined up all my ducks. They’re in a row, honest. So now I can “take you on”.
I am calling your bluff, Bliff. I want to see the substance. Let’s see how deep your “race realism” goes. I am always open minded. Show me compelling evidence, and I will be compelled.
You claim to see differences between the races, and then try to put the burden of proof on me to refute you? No Bliff, you are making the claims, the burden of proof is on you. You need to quantify your claims, and you need to substantiate them with evidence.
You say that the intelligence of black people is “shifted down by 1 standard deviation”. Okay, I’ll go along with you that this is true. I’m also temporarily going to pretend that 1 standard deviation is actually considered significant by the scientific community. What, Bliff, is the value of your 1 standard deviation?
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I can’t answer all you clowns.
Why not?
If Herneith didn’t want to respond to my question, she should have just ignored me.
But Bliffy. your posts cry out for a response.
Tell me, old Bliffenstein, how many races are there and who is a part of each race?
I can answer that. There are millions if you take into account all the quadroons, quadropoloons, pontifaloons and differing degrees of such.
After that, tell me how are mixed race people categorized.
Depending on the quantifiable negro blood, n*****s, if they don’t have discernible black features but identify or sympathize with other blacks, they are still n*****s.
While you are at it how you got into your “hobby” in the first place.
A black man turned him down, since they seem to be obsessed with them.
Now, dissolve and bring me what I asked for, so I can crush your bigoted ego with the heel of my boot.
That would be a perfectly good waste of a boot!
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@ Bliff,
You’r just proving people right. Seriously.
You need to address arguments maturely. Explain to them, How do you know there are less intelligent blacks than there are intelligent whites? You can’t just rely on what HBDers say because they’re opinions are based on pure biased, not any actual fact. They just make up numbers, and use them repeatedly under different contexts. They provide no real scientific data. These are the same people who thought the Irish and Asians were no better than gorillas for a long time.
If you truly observed other people, you’d know you were wrong by now. That’s why so many scientists, anthropologists and sociologists believe race realism is wrong. Because they study, they get out there, they learn and they analyze. You cannot view every race as a “race of hats” who all act the same or within your chosen parameters for them. There are outliers in every group, and your limited experience with them does not make you an expert on them. This isn’t animal planet, where you can watch one documentary and prop yourself as a know-it-all. True academics don’t cherry pick until they see what they want to see and ignore all evidence to the contrary. I can see black people as individuals who should be evaluated by their actions. That is realistic. You see black people as a monolithic group that you can just evaluate by their skin color. That is unrealistic. No one can be evaluated by just their race, you cannot predict how they will think, act, or feel based on something as basic as skin color or ethnicity.
You really are like a bully, you need to say hurtful things to a group you can project on because you yourself are that individual that needs an identity to cling to. You bait people and then act taken aback when they respond in a way that doesn’t cater to you. if you posted in ways that didn’t attack and demean people, you’d be taken more seriously. It’s as simple as that. Playing the victim doesn’t change that. I used to think just like you.
You also decide to use “black” as an insult and compare certain posters here (like Hernieth) to drug dealers, which is another sign of insecurity. You are so held back by your bias that you are unable to do anything but repeat the same tired arguments that were proven wrong a long time ago. If you can dismiss people by their race, you wouldn’t have to actually compete with them or think critically about yourself. You can just cling to your “whiteness” and let it do the work for you. You can’t think critically about racism due to your apparent bias, especially not through an academic viewpoint. You’re too tied up in your racist identity to be able to do so. Your just too emotional about it to be able to discuss it appropriately. People who aren’t biased can understand that “racist” or “white supremacy” does not equal “people of European descent”, you can abandon racist viewpoints without abandoning your identity. Unless you use that identity as a crutch.
There was a time when I used to think just like you. I needed to cling to my identity because I felt so left behind in my own personal life. I needed to make people of color feel inferior. I needed to make people with less money feel inferior. I had those trappings but I had nothing of my own to be proud of. It was a horrible place to be. Then I learned to expand my perspective and see the world through a realistic lens, instead of a rose-tinted one that catered to only my views.
To be able to explore race relations, you need to be prepared for dialogue, that doesn’t necessarily cater to you’re skin color. Online blogs are rare in that people like Hernieth and Brothawolf can feel safe enough to discuss their experiences without feeling that their lives or identities are in danger. They don’t have the privilege to be able to view race as a curiosity, it is a part of their identity, forced on them every day. White people can’t just bully their way into their lives and use their skin color as a get out of jail free pass to say what they want like they’re in pre school. You can’t expect to just show up here, say racially insensitive things, and then get a pat on the back. You can’t just show up with your limited, negative opinion of blacks and expect them to nod and agree with you. Who would agree with being insulted the minute they say “That’s not true, let me tell you why?”
I’m going to be civil and ask you the same questions, at least somewhat: Why do you feel so compelled to tell black people how “less intelligent” they are? Why do you assume everyone who disagrees with you is black? Why is black automatically a negative for you?
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Herneith, I really do enjoy watching you sharpen your sword on the neck bones of the unworthy. I doubt I will ever tire of it.
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These clowns ask for it. I come here to read of other perspectives. People like Bliff, Doug1 and assorted buffoons of their ilk attempt to throw a wrench into the fray. They constantly derail posts with their backward philosophies and ideologies. They cannot be taken seriously as their contributions read like a lunatic Who’s Who journal. I particularly find them to be hilarious when they demand you give them an answer and engage them in a serious manner. Bliff for example, cannot understand why no one will answer his question as to why he has no self worth. Telling black people that they are on average, stupid, and then demanding they engage him instead of hurling invective at him. Well it bespeaks good ol’ Bliff’s intelligence if he wishes to engage those he thinks are dumb on average. Bliff is a trip!
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Herneith,
I think Bliff believes that black people are stupid because he’s projecting his own inadequacies onto them. I don’t think he’s achieved much in life. So, he takes it out on black folks.
At the same time, he latches on the belief of white supremacy to help him cope with that fact that when all else fails, he’s still a white man in a white male dominated society. So, life can’t be that bad.
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@ Brothawolf,
The good old, “At least I’m not a black person” philosophy. They couldn’t do that if they could admit that black people were equal to them. They need someone to denigrate in order to feel more secure with themselves. I remember I used to be the same way.
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You know what i think and it’s being demonstrated right now with Doug1…
“Race realists” are unable to show appreciation or gratitude to Blacks for their contributions to society and making America great.
They can’t say thank you to Abagond for his own contribution to virtual society.
Like i will right now: Thank you Abagond for making the world better via your contribution of an open, intelligent forum for issues of social justice.
I want to see Doug1 say thank you to Abagond or any of the other posters here.
Because the only thing he has done yetsofar is take and argue positions that are contrarian and tribalistic. He cannot even make admissions of wrongness.
Or say thank you.
How sad is that?
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Or am I the only one that is tired of Doug1 talking down to Black people? Saying that they are over-emotional or “seeing red” like Trayvon apparently did. Because if I’m the only one who is offended by this then maybe i need to step back and let him spout his distorted view point freely without trying to hold him to account.
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@JT
I’m at work and can’t write much, but this was so precious I have to respond…
“Race realists” are unable to show appreciation or gratitude to Blacks for their contributions to society and making America great.
Yes, yes! I too want to hear about ALL the great contributions that DA Blacks have made to America!! Please list in as much detail as possible. You can use more than 1 sheet of paper if you need, even though it’s hard to imagine there’s that much to write.
Please include all the made up invention lies Blacks have made to boost their ground-level self-esteem – like the invention of the traffic light, the first open heart surgery (in the 19th Century, before the invention of the heart-lung machine), the lawnmower, etc.
Please add and subtract. From these great contributions, you can deduct the cost of Black Crime and the required incarceration costs, the dumbing down of American schools to accommodate black kids and their slower learning abilities, the Black Privilege costs – affirmative action, anti-discrimination lawsuits, big payouts for fake discrimination cases, like the Black Farmers Shakedown payout, you get the picture.
They can’t say thank you to Abagond for his own contribution to virtual society. Yes, Yes!! I too want to thank Abagond for another wacko Black Website to add to all the others, like the Grio, Colorlines, The Root, etc. They are SOOOOOOOOOO entertaining to a white race realist like myself. At these sites, I can relax my functioning brain and enter a fantasy world, exposing the inner workings of the Black Collective Mind. Collective because ALL the sites are the same – Whites are the only people who can actually do anything!! They are responsible for ALL of Black peoples’ troubles. It’s victimhood, after victimhood. Apparently, Blacks can’t do ANYTHING, not even to help themselves.
What a GOLDEN opportunity you provided me, JT. Thank you, thank you. (The check is already in the mail – with a bonus)
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WARNIG! WARNING!
Extensive templates taken from global Eurocentric biodiversity sectors!
IMMENENT SHUTDOWN DETECTED!
VIRAL SEQUENCE INITIATED!
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Someone on here keeps asking ‘why is it that BP think that WP feel insecure.’
Well, its no doubt because they are no longer free to do the following without question or fear of repercussions from said BP:-
o Stop blacks and ask for their pass
o Enforce curfew
o Break up gatherings of blacks
o Disarm blacks
o Search homes for guns and books, both signs of a possible uprising
o Keep blacks in line through terror
An excerpt from the Slave Patrol thread but, cast your eye across the responses from some of the commenters you will see that their mindset is like that of a person 100 years or more ago.
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@SomeGuy
Holy Crap, SomeWiseGuy! It’s Imminent, not IMMENENT . Get a spell checker. This about the 3d time you’ve done this.
And the shutdown was averted. It was just some ugly, black bug in the system. I squished it.
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@ Bliff
Yes, I am a poor speller. Sue me. Don’t be such a grammar/spelling Nazi. And it was the second time I’ve done it. Learn to count! See, I’m a math Nazi. Wheeeee!
I notice that you failed to answer all the charges against you. Is that because you are too busy at your job AKA playing World of Warcraft?
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@SomeGuy
“the charges “. funny. Sorry, when I get “chimped” (that’s an old word from my childhood days when we use to attack some random kid in our gang, beat the snot out of him, all in good fun. We were all chimped at one time or another) by an Internet gang, standard policy is to “ice” them,, ie., make ’em wait until the adrenaline and the fun fades from them. Drive them crazy with anticipation until they get bored. You know, like icing the kicker in football. Then swoop iin for the kill. It’s easy with you guys. No real mental competition here. Herneith hasn’t passed the 6th grade yet, but everyone considers her to be some kind of “wit”. To me, she’s lame. And you’re limp.
Ha, ha!! Limp and Lame!! What a couple.
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@ Bliff
HAHAHAHA! Limp and Lame! HAHAHA!
Your wit is as sharp as a granite slab.
All jokes aside, you have said absolutely nothing that warrants anyone’s attention. I repeat, you aren’t the first bigot here. You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake. If you want to engage people in “mental competition”, how about showing some of your own value in formulating topics that stimulate intelligent conversation.
You come to the table with nothing but an empty plate and expect to be fed? F*ck outta here!
No one cares about you or what you have to say here. You’re our scientific specimen. Homo Racialis! We dissect your non-sense in order to learn more about the diseased bigoted mind. Thank you for your contribution for our benefit, by the way. I wish that I could say that it’s been most informative, but alas, same shiitake, different day.
You came here of your own volition, where you knew you would be greeted with hostility as soon as you posted your very first response. Then you ask why we think you have low self-esteem? Are you are half-witted as you are blind?? Or perhaps you’re just a masochist with a Afro-Asiatic fetish?
And as for the chimp comment you made…
YOUR MAMA!
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Now that is funny!!!!!
Sadly…For you Bliff its also profoundly True!!!
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@Bulanik
How much learning by whites was truncated for them to learn and obey instead, the primary lesson, which was – fear blacks?”
Come on now, give them their due’s – they’ve certainly earned an A* here then….
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We dissect your non-sense in order to learn more about the diseased bigoted mind.
Yeah, its difficult though as many of them have or are undergoing frontal lobotomy’s… 😉
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@SomeGuy.
No one cares about you or what you have to say here. WhaAAAAAAAAAA!! “MOM!!! The black kids won’t play with me and be my friend.”
For a bunch who claim nobody cares about me or what I have to say, I sure get alot of attention. Alot of it Unwanted.
You’re our scientific specimen. Homo Racialis! We dissect your non-sense in order to learn more about the diseased bigoted mind. OK, I’ll donate my brain to guys when I finally kick it. You have to promise to actually study it, before your inner African cannibal kicks in and you eat it. I’ve heard about you guys…..
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Ok, Dave.
Pot meet kettle.
HA! Now that’s funny.
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@Bulanik
It’s too funny. A white racist troll comes to Abagond because he doesn’t want attention…..
I know Bulanik, but I hasten to say that he might feel this is another one of those ‘unwarranted attacks on whites’ that he’s been harping on about *rolls eyes*
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@Bliff
You’ve done nothing but disgrace yourself here. You are not valued, you are not respected, you are not wanted, and you are only the slightest possible nuance of tolerated solely because it is understood that people like you are an inevitability in places where ideas can be expressed freely.
There will always be that guy in places where free speech is advocated. That guy who makes reasonable individuals question briefly if free speech is such a good idea.
And that is it. That is your purpose. Incredible as it is that someone like you would actually serve a purpose, I’ve found it. If it weren’t for people like you the notion of free speech would probably become overly assumed, and under appreciated.
So I raise my glass to you, Bliff. You are to free speech, what stubbed toes are to shoes. A painful, eventually inevitable, but occasionally necessary reminder to help the rest of us appreciate something.
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@Bulanik
Do you have trouble with English?? Maybe that’s a second or third language for you. I said “I sure get alot of attention”. You said because he doesn’t want attention. In English, that’s not the same. If you want to learn to insult, stick with me, I’ll learn ya.
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@Don
Thank you for your selective attention. Apparently you choose to ignore the abuse I suffer at the hands of others here, and only pay attention to me. Why’s that, Don? Is it because I’m white? In case you still haven’t noticed this IS the land of self-disgrace.
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@ Bliff
Not everyone that has attacked you is strictly Black. ::cough cough::
And don’t play that innocent victim stuff here. You initiated every conflict against you on this forum. Shall I call you a WHHHHHAAAAAMbulance?
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@Bliff
You do not fool me, as you do not fool anybody else here.
You ask for all the abuse you receive, and your denials to that point are a facade that you are required to portray so that you can continue.
As for my selective attention, most of my posts have been in response to one individual at a time. In some of those posts, you have been that individual. You ask the question as if you think my singular responses to you are also somehow special attention from me; It is not. You receive no special thought, benefit, or attention from me. Therefore there is no answer to your question of why.
I am answering your questions to the best of my ability. Now, at the risk of seeming to care what others think over the internet, will you answer mine?
What is the value of your 1 standard deviation of intelligence, and how is it qualified?
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@Don
What is the value of your 1 standard deviation of intelligence, and how is it qualified? Not sure exactly what you want to know, but here goes:
Many human physical attributes are normally distributed; i.e, they can be represented by a bell curve. For peoples’ heights, say, there are a few very short people, a few very tall people, and most fall near the average (the peak of the curve), hence, you get a bell curve. The standard deviation is a measure (calculated value) related to the width of the bell curve.
Intelligence, or more precisely, IQ, is normally distributed like height. The black bell curve is shifted down from the white curve by 1 sd, which is related to the bell curve’s width. One standard deviation can be considered “alot”.
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@ Bliff
What you lack in intelligence you make up for in vigour.
How about white racist cognitive inferiority:
http://pss.sagepub.com/content/early/2012/01/04/0956797611421206.abstract
There’s some race realism for you byotch.
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They are SOOOOOOOOOO entertaining to a white race realist like myself.
The magazine for race realists like yourself:
http://www.madmagazine.com/
At these sites, I can relax my functioning brain and enter a fantasy world, exposing the inner workings of the Black Collective Mind.
Is that before or after your daily shock treatment? Make sure the receptors in your brain is realigned also, it is imperative that you do so.
No real mental competition here.
Then why are you here besides stealing company time?
Herneith hasn’t passed the 6th grade yet, but everyone considers her to be some kind of “wit”. To me, she’s lame. And you’re limp.
I prefer to be called witless as being considered witty and fresh out of the 6th grad to be bourgeois. In fact I really can’t say what I want, as this blog has a comments policy. If I could you would know what wit is, you fornicating cretinous anal opening.
For a bunch who claim nobody cares about me or what I have to say, I sure get alot of attention.
I don’t care about you or what you say, but you are easy prey for the butt of jokes. Cracking jokes at loons such as you helps wile away the time.
You’ve done nothing but disgrace yourself here.
He can’t help it he is suffering from a manic episode!
Intelligence, or more precisely, IQ, is normally distributed like height. The black bell curve is shifted down from the white curve by 1 sd, which is related to the bell curve’s width. One standard deviation can be considered “alot”.
Intelligence, or more precisely, IQ, is normally distributed like buttocks. The black bell curve is shifted down from the white curve by 1 sd,hence white folk for the most part have flat buttocks. One standard deviation can be considered “alot” such as having a smooth muscular set of buttocks as opposed to a flat hairy arse!
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@Bliff
Thanks for the try. I understand what a standard deviation is. What I am asking for is the value of the standard deviation.
To use your height example. 1 standard deviation may be 2 inches in height. Therefore 2 standard deviations is 4 inches, etc.
The significance of 1 standard deviation is debatable. The generally accepted threshold in particle physics, for example, for a finding to be considered significant is 5 standard deviations. Less than 5 standard deviations is considered within the tolerance for error, especially when data is sampled and not all-inclusive. However, I promised you that I would ignore the probable insignificance of 1 standard deviation so I will keep my word.
It sounds like you want to quantify intelligence in points of IQ. So what is the value of your 1 standard deviation in points of IQ? That is quantifying your claim. The last portion is qualifying your claim. Why should we trust your figures? You need to show them to be credible.
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I think Bliff is getting a joy out of making a complete ass out of himself. Man, it’s a damn shame.
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LOL! I too am beginning to think Bliff get some sick little pleasure from being a complete donkey brain….it takes all kinds…smdh.
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Peanut,
I’ve heard about the casting controversy in the Hunger Games. I didn’t read the books, but the main character is described as having olive skin (not sure what that means in terms of race).
But obviously, some people got angry that there are some black actors portraying characters they thought were white (even though they were either described as black in the book or weren’t given any specific racial identity):
http://movies.yahoo.com/blogs/movie-talk/race-controversy-over-hunger-games-182705585.html
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http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/woman-unhappy-with-care-at-st-mary-s-hospital-is/article_ed640f3d-64a0-516c-88ff-fb770b5e9677.html
Has anyone heard about Anna Brown? She had pain in her leg and refused to leave a hospital. She was arrested for trespassing. She later died in her jail cell from a blood clot that spread from her leg to her lungs.
I just found this a bit troubling and saw the article on the front of a newspaper I purchased. Any thoughts?
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@Mira, I read the book (Hunger Games). Rue, Thresh, and possibly Cinna are clearly Black characters as far as the books goes. Katniss is biracial as far as the book goes. Her father is darkskinned, her mother pale-skinned. Yet Katniss was casted as a White woman who in promos was spray tanned and had her hair dyed darker.
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@Don
Obviously, you don’t understand fully the concept of standard deviation, or you wouldn’t be asking the questions you do. The standard deviation is that from the normalized Z-curve, which puts all the numbers on a relative basis. That means that the 1 sd is a relative value, compared to the Z curve width. One would be “alot” for any normal distribution.
Before I answer any more questions along these lines, please explain to me what the “value of 1 sd” means to you? What were you going to use this value for?
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@ Mira,
Harry Potter had the same controversy. Not only were they mad that the character Blaise was described as black in the book, they were even angrier when they saw him in the movie.
But what couldn’t be explained was the hatred for the actress who played Cho Chang in the movie, even though Cho Chang is not a white name. They even sent racist death threats to her.
However…
They didn’t seem to freak out so much over Angelina Jolie playing a black woman’s character in Wanted.
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@Don
You answered the question yourself, if you only understood. Your 5 standard deviation rule, similar to the “Six Sigma” rule, defines the entire practical normal distribution range, with the tails cut off.
The significance of the 1 sd IQ finding is that, with average IQ of the white US population being 100 as a reference, the average IQ of the black populations is 85.
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I have no words for this:
http://www.blackyouthproject.com/2012/03/22-year-old-rekia-boyd-killed-by-off-duty-chicago-police-officer-cellphone-mistaken-for-handgun/
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@Bliff
———–
“Obviously, you don’t understand fully the concept of standard deviation, or you wouldn’t be asking the questions you do. The standard deviation is that from the normalized Z-curve, which puts all the numbers on a relative basis. That means that the 1 sd is a relative value, compared to the Z curve width. One would be “alot” for any normal distribution.”
“Before I answer any more questions along these lines, please explain to me what the “value of 1 sd” means to you?”
———-
The value of a standard deviation, is how many units of measurement it represents in the context of the data set it was derived from. Importantly, this is not what it means *to me*, this is what the value of a standard deviation is, as a definition. Previously you used height to illustrate a standard deviation so lets stick with that. If for the sake of time we can accept that Wikipedia is accurate, the average height of an adult male in the United States, is 70″ (70 inches), with a standard deviation of about 3″.
So our unit of measurement is inches. Our mean (average) is 70 units of measurement… 70 inches. One (1) single standard deviation has a value of about 3 inches.
Now one of your topics is intelligence. I am assumed that your unit of measurement of intelligence is in points of IQ. So, just like height, what you do is provide the mean, and then tell us what the value of the standard deviation is.
Please let me know if you still do not understand what the concept of a standard deviation’s value within it’s context means, and I will find other ways to explain it until you do.
————–
“What were you going to use this value for?”
————–
It’s not a question of using the value. I am simply asking you to quantify (give value to) your claim. Consider the following example conversation, and how it highlights that knowing the quantity of standard deviations without the value of those standard deviations, is not very helpful.
Don: Hi Bliff! I was wondering, how tall is brothawolf?
Bliff: brothawolf is 2 standard deviations shorter than the average.
Don: Oh, okay. But how tall is he exactly?
Bliff: He is exactly 2 standard deviations shorter than the average.
Don: Right. See, that doesn’t actually tell me how tall he is because I have no context… I know what the generally accepted average height is, so why don’t you tell me the value of the standard deviation and I’ll just do the math myself.
Bliff: What do you mean by “what is the value of the standard deviation?” You would not be asking that question if you understood standard deviations. I don’t think you understand what a standard deviation is…
Do you see now where I am coming from Bliff? I am giving you heaps of benefit of the doubt here, so that you can explain your race realism, defend its claims, and demonstrate for us why its claims are credible.
The first step you need to do in the process is demonstrate your credibility. Naturally if nobody can find you to be credible, nobody is going to find anything you say to be credible. I am trying to help you out with that, by asking a simple question about a less than simple concept that you brought up, the standard deviation. I gave you the set, it’s your job to jump up and spike it. Okay?
———-
“You answered the question yourself, if you only understood. Your 5 standard deviation rule, similar to the “Six Sigma” rule, defines the entire practical normal distribution range, with the tails cut off.
———-
No, that’s not at all what the 5 standard deviation guideline is. This guideline applies to particle physics, and may be used elsewhere too but I don’t know for sure. This guideline is used for determining if the results of an experiment are considered significant or not. One of the problem with doing experiments in modern day physics is that nearly all experiments deal with things that are unfathomably small, and often incredibly fast. Instruments for detection can never be perfectly accurate, so for any experiment the standard deviation is calculated for expected results. If measured results fall within a window of 5 standard deviations from the expected result, that variance is considered within the tolerance of equipment inaccuracies, and uncontrollable environmental disturbances.
If you were watching the news, do you remember the neutrinos that were measured to travel faster than the speed of light many months back? The only reason we heard about those neutrinos is because they were repeatedly being received 6 standard deviations of time sooner than they should have been. What was the value of the standard deviation in this context? 24 nanoseconds.
So the 5 standard deviation guideline in particle physics, is not similar to the “Six Sigma” rule. However your description of the Six Sigma rule is accurate.
——-
“The significance of the 1 sd IQ finding is that, with average IQ of the white US population being 100 as a reference, the average IQ of the black populations is 85.”
——
You’ll have to forgive me because I had to chuckle at this. Hopefully now you can answer the question, “What is the value of your 1 standard deviation?”
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@ Peanut,
Wow…over a cell phone? It’s not just black men who are treated that way…it’s black women and children too. Now how are they going to excuse that one?
“Oh, one of them had a threatening cell phone! They might have been thugs! I didn’t mean to fire! They beat me up from across the street!”
Are black lives so freaking meaningless that a trained cop will just fire willy nilly at them for one of them walking over after HE said something to them? And how long until we have the “inquisition” looking into Rekia Boyd’s history?
It’s so damn depressing. This racist mess has to stop, it has an entire population indoctrinated enough to treat all people of color as dangerous criminals to put down, and too many people are losing their lives over it.
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“Intelligence, or more precisely, IQ, is normally distributed like buttocks. The black bell curve is shifted down from the white curve by 1 sd,hence white folk for the most part have flat buttocks. One standard deviation can be considered “alot” such as having a smooth muscular set of buttocks as opposed to a flat hairy arse!”
***************
Speaking of buttocks:
Evidently the blight-ridden troll known as Bliff is a secret S&M practitioner who’s addicted to coming here to receive frequent and consistent painful butt whippings/lessons in humiliation, Dominatrix style.
~~~~~
Say Bliff, I hear you’re now rooming with EGOR, Dr. Frankenstein’s former helper. How’s that old twisted humpbacked assistant gravedigger doing? lol
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lol this is what I get for not checking my source. I need to correct myself, 24 nanoseconds is not accurately the value of 1 standard deviation in the OPERA experiment that found FTL neutrinos, on the off chance anybody actually cares. Oops.
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@Don
You’re a hopeless waste of my time. I’m not here to school you in statistics, which you have a smathering of understanding but not much. If you did then you’d realize your statements on 5 sd are the same as what I told you – you’re looking to see if any one experimental result belongs to the population of what could be called “believable results”. That’s what I said – your 5 sd defines the range of the population.
With IQ, we’re comparing two populations, the black and white IQ distributions, each with separate variance and mean. If you are ever to have any hope of comparing them, you have to normalize the results (research the normalized Z curve), so you have an “apples to apples” comparison. The raw numbers are of no meaning to you or me. The fact that you don’t realize that means that your understanding of statistics is subpar.
I’m done discussing this topic with you. Take it or leave it.
As far as the IQ values I quoted, this is standard representation of the IQ distributions. Go read the Bell Curve before you ask any more questions.
The first step you need to do in the process is demonstrate your credibility. Look, wise guy, I don’t owe you anything. You’re lucky I responded to your dumba$$ at all. You’re a quantoid, you know somethings about numbers, but you have no wisdom of their meaning.
I’m not here to “prove” race realism to you or anyone else, so don’t act like it.
You need to PROVE your credibility to me, also, if you are going to question mine. That means I expect you to demonstrate that there are no race differences, if that is your stance. It is not a given.
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@Bliff
I have no problem with addressing your other questions and comments, but we’ve yet to answer the first question so there’s really no point in moving on to other things yet.
I know you can do this Bliff. Here is what you have written:
“average IQ of the white US population being 100”
“Decades of evidence has shown the black distribution is shifted down by 1 standard deviation.”
“the average IQ of the black populations is 85.”
If the average IQ of the white US population is 100, and the average IQ of the black population when shifted down by 1 Standard Deviation is 85, What is the value of your 1 standard deviation?
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Folks
Watching the Trayvon Martin case unfold has driven me into a mild depression.
I think about my family, all of them, with varying skin tones, who could possibly be gunned down for simply walking.
America has regressed. Or rather, with Obama as our leader, whites have finally shown their true colours. We’re seriously thinking about leaving the country. For good this time. Without jobs, especially if you are brown-skinned, the lousy housing market and America going back to its KKK roots, we are feeling the pressure to just make a new change.
My friend is old enough to remember the riots in Chicago.
He says that a case like the Martin case could set things on fire.
I believe him wholeheartedly.
Why are blacks treated so carelessly in America? Are we so damn expendable?
Even babies? I’m sickened. Can any of you feel the tension that whites are feeling? It’s as if they know…
I’m rambling now.
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Truthbetold,
All I can say is that at the end of the day, America hates blacks because they are black. Beyond the usual and typical denial, in the end that’s what it comes down to. This has been a pathology of American society for so long, and you can see it through the comments of these trolls and the push to turn Martin into a thug.
Most won’t admit it straight out, but those who hear their rantings, race realist babblings, and whatever else can see the writing on the wall. It’s as plain as day that many white people hate blacks because they are black. Why that is so? Who knows, but it’s obvious that they want to keep the hate going.
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I am so amazed at how your “race realist” readers don’t seem to realize that in US, that every “action has a reaction” and as long as there are two factions of Americans / races/ sides going head-to-head, tit for tat will continue….
Your race realist won’t admit that the game began with their white forefathers and this game keeps going with no end in sight because when one side (white) throws a dart, the other side (black) will throw it back.
Case in point, the movie “Hunger Games” has 2 characters that are described as “brown-skinned” in the book, yet white fans of the movie have complained that “black” actors were cast and this ruined the movie….
can the white fans not read?… the characters in the book were not white, yet these fans expected the movie to have all white characters….it’s this mindset that keeps race relations on its’ current track….white Americans need to stop crying “foul” when they are just as culpable as blacks for stirring the pot.
“some viewers objected to the film casting black actors and tweeted complaints such as:
“Awkward moment when Rue is some black girl and not the innocent blonde girl you picture,” and
“Kk call me racist but when i found out rue was black her death wasn’t as sad #ihatemyself.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/28/the-hunger-games-amandla-stenberg-respons-racists-tweets-rue_n_1386027.html
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http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012-03-20/news/31217178_1_lynndie-england-abu-ghraib-military-prison
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@ Porkins, Brothawolf, Peanut and Ace:
I just did a post on Rekia Boyd:
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@ Bulanik,
Well, she reminds me of the white individuals that blame the victim and is remaining unrepentant.
I think this is the type of person that Blacks need to be accustomed to dealing with when their own are persecuted or murdered.
The victim will be responsible for the actions of the assailant.
That is white logic.
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@Bulanik
But if the white teens’ tweets are anything to go by, it seems the young, white minds have been bathed and swaddled in overt and covert racist culture since birth.
This is a nitwit response. The white teens only indicated that they had an image of the character, I believe “Rue”, in their mind as a white girl, so they had a hard time seeing her as black on the big screen.
This does not indicate in any rational way that they’ve been “and swaddled in overt and covert racist culture since birth. ” This is just your over-emotional “I see racism everywhere” attitude that blacks have been brought up with in their black sub-culture. Everything is “raciss”.
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@ Linda,
I’m not surprised, they reacted the same way to Cho Chang and Blaise Zabini from the Harry Potter books, who were also canonically Chinese and black respectfully.
It’s depressing, that they would think that was okay. I suppose when your spoon fed racial superiority you expect everyone to look and act like you, no matter how busted and useless you are. Since they can’t handle being wrong they then blame the black person for “invading” their space, instead of accepting the fact that they exist and have a right to be there too. Notice how they don’t admit she was dark skinned in the book? They just equated “innocent” to white and got their panties in a twist because they’re too stupid to remember that skin color doesn’t directly symbolize someone’s faults or qualities.
It’s nice to know that when a little black girl dies, some racist brat feels less “sad” about it. I guess people of color make their lives so much harder to live when they appear on screen in a movie, especially if they aren’t used in a stereotypical way catered for the white people’s amusement.
They’re not even trying to be smart or subtle about it. It’s a combination between a one-sided abuse of the freedom of speech and and an undeserved sense of entitlement.
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@Matari
Matari, please. He spells his name Igor – that’s how he spells it, don’t ask me why, I don’t know, he’s funny like that. What if we spelled your name Dufus. Would like you that? Well, WOULD YOU??? Maybe you would.
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This is a nitwit response. The white teens only indicated that they had an image of the character,
‘
”
”
@ Bliff,
Did you even look at the link?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/28/the-hunger-games-amandla-stenberg-respons-racists-tweets-rue_n_1386027.html
There. Since you missed it the first time.
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@ Bliff,
Nit wit response? Because you don’t agree with it?
Those white kids have been spoon fed the same crap for so long that their feelings over a little girl’s death depended on what skin color she had. Why is it that I can watch a movie and not wish for a girls death because she has a different skin color than me? They feel like they’ve been somehow wronged or “tricked” that their wrong assumptions were corrected in a movie and a girl described as “innocent” is black. That is not only ridiculous, but it is entitled.
The same people show no “outrage” over an olive skinned dark haired girl being played by a pale blond girl who had to dye her hair.
They shouldn’t have to “get used” to seeing Rue as black. Not only is it in the damn text, but no one is required to whitewash everything to protect their delicate “constitutions” because they can’t handle seeing black girls on a freaking movie screen (unless they’re being negative or stereotypical). Black people exist, you can’t will them to suddenly change their race because you were too illiterate to read a book. Give me a break.
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@Bulanik
Aw, Bliff if that is how you feel about Rue, I don’t care anything about Rue. I don’t anything about her, or about Hunger Games. I was responding to YOUR COMMENT about how some teenage girls’ immature comments must necessarily mean they were brought up racist from birth. No; they’re just stupid teenage comments about some stupid movie. However, YOU decided to smear white people by claiming their comments were due to deep racism; that is what I was calling “nitwit” – YOUR response.
you’re gonna really get your knickers in twist I don’t wear knickers, so I don’t see how they could get in a twist. In fact, I rarely wear anything below my waist. It allows my genitals and rear to breathe properly and aerate. It also stops anyone dead cold of accusing me of my knickers, pants, underwear, etc being in a twist.
when you find out about Jesus… Jesus? Was he in the movie? OR do you mean THAT Jesus? So what, I’m an atheist. Did your little Racist African self think that just because I’m a race realist I’m some kind of Bible-thumping Baptist?? Bulanik, you need to get off of these dumba$$ Black websites and learn about the REAL world. You sure won’t find it here.
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@Bulanik
Aw, Bliff if that is how you feel about Rue, I don’t care anything about Rue. I don’t anything about her, or about Hunger Games. I was responding to YOUR COMMENT about how some teenage girls’ immature comments must necessarily mean they were brought up racist from birth. No; they’re just stupid teenage comments about some stupid movie. However, YOU decided to smear white people by claiming their comments were due to deep racism; that is what I was calling “nitwit” – YOUR response.
you’re gonna really get your knickers in twist I don’t wear knickers, so I don’t see how they could get in a twist. In fact, I rarely wear anything below my waist. It allows my genitals and rear to breathe properly and aerate. It also stops anyone dead cold of accusing me of my knickers, pants, underwear, etc being in a twist.
when you find out about Jesus… Jesus? Was he in the movie? OR do you mean THAT Jesus? So what, I’m an atheist. Did your little Racist African self think that just because I’m a race realist I’m some kind of Bible-thumping Baptist?? Bulanik, you need to get off of these dumba$$ Black websites and learn about the REAL world. You sure won’t find it here.
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@ Bliff,
Wait, so its okay for white kids to smear the actress and black people by throwing reactions and racial slurs at the girl? And yet, claiming they’re brought up to be racist is the “horrible” part? What is it then, if it cant be called “deep racism”. Usually when people claim that they don’t care about a girls death because they’ve learned she is black, or want to call her the n-word, that’s pretty damn racist.
So…asking how you feel about how Jesus is portrayed in movies since he’s not white in real life is…racist? Wow. I have to thank you. You’ve now proven that atheists can be some of the most hypocritical, backwards thinkers on the planet. Props to you.
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It allows my genitals and rear to breathe properly and aerate. It also stops anyone dead cold of accusing me of my knickers, pants, underwear, etc being in a twist.
LOL. I knew it. Easy method of ‘self expression’ i’m sure…
Listen love, give your arse a rest so you mouth can speak will ya. Put some clothes on and in particular, cover up your backside so that we are not continually met with the barrage of shite you keep posting.
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@Ace
Yes, Ace, the girls were talking about a made-up character in a fantasy, known in the USA, as a movie. They were talking like teenage girls. The fact that they talking about a black actress is why your knickers are all in a twist, and why you and the other race-baiters decided to get well….your knickers are all in a twist (Didn’t need to say it twice, I guess) and make this a BIG racial issue. That’s all you do!!! IT’s not important!!!!
“don’t care about a girls death” IT’S A MOVIE, DUMBA$$. They could kill everybody in it, for all I care, and they usually do!!!
All Bulanik said about Jesus was “when you find out about Jesus…”. I said I was an atheist. What the hell was the rest of that crap you were spouting??
Hey Ace, do you have a pool at your house? If you do, please go jump in.
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@Bulanik
That is what happens in white supremacist – that Neanderthal response is terribly difficult to over-ride
Whew! Are you as happy as I am that this is, indeed, true. I am very proud of my inner Neanderthal . All REAL men are Neanderthals..and, I guess, therefore, white.
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@ Demerera
Listen love, give your arse a rest so you mouth can speak will ya. Hello, Dahling. No, thank you, I am quite comfortable as I am, and it still prevents you from saying my “knickers are in a twist. “
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@ Bliff
DUMBA$$ DUMBA$$ DUMBA$$ DUMBA$$ DUMBA$$
Is that all you have? Pathetic.
Maybe at one point you had a half-way decent argument when you first arrived at this blog. Now all you are is a troll and a joke. Just give it up.
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@SomeGuy
You are my No. 1 fan. Whenever I post, you can’t wait to post your response. Quit complaining about me and write something original, Dumba$$. All you do is copy and paste. I got you on a yo-yo string, Boot-Liquor.
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@ Bliff
Are you an adult? Cut the kiddy cr@p, man. It makes you look like a juvenile delinquent. Does your wife and kids know you are on the Internet being a complete f*cktard?
All you are here to do is troll. That’s it. By that alone you should be banned. Why else are you here?
Wait, I can guess your childish response now: “You idiots entertain me! Neener Neener!”
Bro, if we are your source of entertainment, not only are you a troll, but you have no life as well. Stick to golf as your main hobby and put down the keyboard.
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That’s ironic, coming from a broken record.
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I can smell the smoke of Bliff still trying to figure out what 100 – 85 is.
lol
It’s okay Bliff, the adults learned a long time ago that when children are throwing a temper tantrum to just watch and enjoy the show.
We’re all just watching you. I, for one, hope your next act is a dance routine, that would be a riot.
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@ Bliff,
I am waiting for Abagond to draw the circle around you and be rid of you and let you drop out of our sphere of interaction. But I gotta say … that Abagond has been very quiet/inactive of late. Maybe that’s the silence before the storm. In your case, i hope that it is!
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@ Abagond,
I like the bambi banner. It reminds me of the cartoonish world that race realists live in.
JT
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@JT, Someguy
Just the fact that you and Someguy admit that I bother you, keeps me going. You are feeding the trolls. Why you would even bother posting this trivial info – you don’t like my posts – is beyond me, when there is more than enough trash posts on this blog. Look at the Trayvon Martin posts – dozens of posts by dozens of yo-yo’s talking back and forth about, making trivial points that will probably be out of date the next day.
So apparently you guys are bothered by my posts, or you wouldn’t even mention. I get trashed here all the time – even I dont’ like it I just don’t read it.
Abagond may be a white basher, but he may actually like to have a forum where people can post a range of opinions.
If you two think I just post trivial stuff, why don’t you try answering this simple question I have to tried to pose to get some dialogue going, but has only brought abuse –
Why is a race realist like me necessarily insecure, has low self esteem, a loser, etc? I am a race realist, not because of any of these traits, but because of what I have learned. You’re free to disagree.
Your answers don’t have to be long, but a least write enough to get the ball going.
Or would you rather just troll me?
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@Don
VERY GOOD DON! The 1 sd for the difference in the means for the two populations is indeed 15!! In fact, it is 15 white-IQ-units. Maybe you’re just slow, not as dumb as I thought. Actually, I think you got some help from somebody in the meantime, or reviewed what the normalized z-curve is.
Or were you just playing dumb? If that is true, then you were wasting my time and yours . If you do it again, I will not communicate with you.
Furthermore, do you finally understand why I balked at going into your question? Because there is no difference between “the difference is 1 sd” or “that the difference is 15 units”. Either is equivalent because we working in normalized units.
A useful inference you can make from the 1 sd knowledge (and the direction I would have preferred to go in) is that 84% (numbers may be rounded off) of whites have a higher IQ than blacks with the average black IQ.
See how much time you wasted? We could’ve gone to this right away, but you insisted in going on in your turtle like fashion.
You’ve beaten this 1 point to death. So I expect to see what great conclusion you are going to come to after all these questions in your next post. If you don’t provide that, then I am really done with you. I am too impatient to move at your snail’s pace.
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You don’t get it. How you see me, is how I see you, Bliff. But I’m glad you’re finally admitting to being a troll. It’s about time.
Don’t give me that innocent victim B.S.. The majority of your posts have been highly inflammatory. You have barely tried to civilly talk with anyone here. Right off the bat, you were an obnoxious, conceited jerk with a bad attitude. Don’t try to re-write history now.
I treat you, how you have treated me. If you sit there, with your nose up in the air and hurl insults, how do you think people are going to respond to you? It’s only natural to be aggressive towards and aggressor.
Abagond does not write for White people.
That is a direct quote from him. It doesn’t mean White people aren’t allowed to post here. It just means you need to know what you are getting in to if you are a White person.
As for your now recent attempt to cut through all the B.S. and actually debate something. That’s cool. However, your points have been gone over ad nauseam in past Bolg posts. Do a search!. Abagond has countless articles explaining the very points you’ve made. Put some effort into it, and show me you are serious about an answer from me.
I’m tired of the back and forth.
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@Bliff.
Nice try, but nobody is buying it. You were unable to realize that 15 points of IQ was the value of your 1 SD, no matter how often I beat you over the head with it. Not until I handed you the answer on a silver platter did it click. Lol.
Now here’s another one of your gems.
“In fact, it is 15 white-IQ-units.”
HAHAHAHAHAHA. So how many black IQ units are there in a white IQ unit Bliff?
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@SomeGuy
This blog needs people like me, otherwise, it’s just a bunch of close-minded black people, and their nonblack ultraliberal minions, just tossing the same stuff back and forth.
Sure, I throw out some 1 liner trash items. Plenty of others do too. Look at Herneith – when has she ever said anything worthwhile?? She just insults and she’s not even funny.
I made 1 mention once of “fried chicken” and everybody went crazy!! That’s nuts. That just shows there’s too much groupthink here. Everybody accepts what Abagond writes without question. I come here and to other black blogs and I see an alternate universe – one in which the only truth is that whites are racist against blacks……AND that’s it! That’s it??? That’s not even a start. You guys are WAY more closed minded than you fancy yourselves. YOU guys have the smug we-know-it-all attitude.
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Bliff,
Fine. Let’s pretend that we need you. Now tell us: why do you need us. Don’t cite humor, entertainment etc.
Existentially speaking, why do you need Abagond and company?
Think about it. Take a second.
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@ Bliff
As I told another poster, we fight for the team whose uniform we are wearing. That includes you. I understand how you may see this blog as anti-White racism, but this is a Black blog. If it seems one sided, it’s because we are addressing critical issues in the Black community involving race. This is not a blog about general injustice in the world. If you want to come on here and post, that’s fine. But when you act hostile, that’s what you’ll get in return.
Take Doug for example. Even though he may occasionally go off on people after a few sips of wine, he generally states his case calmly and rationally (as can be in his case). I may challenge him, but I’m less likely to hurls non-stop insults at him. I will just address the topic he has brought up.
Do some people of color on this blog have a chip on their shoulder? Yes. Can you blame someone for being that way after a lifetime of being abused in your own country? Seeing your family abused for generations? White people didn’t free the slaves and give Black people the keys to the city. The abuse continues up until this very day! It isn’t about “slavery”, it’s about the abuse happening right now!
I’ll tell you what though. You don’t want me hassling you? Fine. I won’t say one peep to you, as long as you don’t mention me. Cool?
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It’s only a matter of time before Bliff goes into a mental breakdown.
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@ Ace
I have taken a page from one of the Youtubers, so if anyone asks me what I am (and they rarely do – in person anyway). I say that I am a descendant of African Slaves. I do this intentionally, because that is about the last thing anyone wants to admit and I say it with pride. So, there is no misunderstanding.
I find it amusing though, since I do the family’s genealogy, how members of my family change race according to what census they are listed in. Some are “Mulatto” in 1870 and 1880, “Black” in 1900 and finally “Negro” in 1930. The White one’s, not surprisingly, stay “White”.
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@Someguy
Finally, you are the first person here to be honest and open up with your concerns. That’s great!! Now maybe we can have a dialogue.
You know somet hings about what I think about race relations, let me give you some more:
*I believe slavery was pure hell.
*I believe there was much injustice towards blacks from slavery till the 60’s and there is still some now.
* Though I believe blacks have some traits that hold them back in Western societies – lower IQ, more impulsive, less planning or forward thinking, that says nothing about them as persons.
*I don’t believe whites are any more moral than blacks are. I think blacks are just as “good” people as whites are. We are all citizens before the law in the USA and entitled to the equality as listed in the Declaration of Independence and 14th Admendment. That doesn’t mean we ae “equal” in all possible aspects, but as citizens with the inalienable rights as in the D of I.
*I grew up in mostly white Pittsburgh, have lived across the country, and have known some black people. By far, they were good people on balance, and I got along with them. No, none of my best friends are black.
*If you knew me personally, and we didn’t talk about racial matters, you would NEVER know about the race realist beliefs I hold. You would generally think of me as an OK guy. I am not a Southern, pot-bellied, Baptist Sheriff. So that’s one thing, at least, you’ve learned from me – race realists are not stereotypical people.
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So…wait a minute. 84% of white people have a higher IQ than black people? How can you really say that with a straight face? How can you tell who’s “black” enough for that “rule” to apply? I still find it funny that according to that statement, even the most backwards, illiterate and close minded white person somehow has a higher IQ than black people.
Anyways…
@ Someguy,
That’s an interesting way to do that. Few expect you to want to say that at all when you can choose to say something else, let alone say it with pride. I bet they’re taken aback by that assertion.
I find it interesting that the terms for black people changed so much that the only difference between the day of “negro/black” and the current use of “black/African American” is that white people chose the original classification. I wonder how a black man who is so multi-ethnic that he passes for white would classify on one of those census forms.
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@Bliff
Your responses are getting sadder and sadder and sadder. It’s not even funny anymore.
This blog needs people like me, otherwise, it’s just a bunch of close-minded black people, and their nonblack ultraliberal minions, just tossing the same stuff back and forth.
This blog never needed your input, nor did we ask for it. You took it upon yourself to troll yourself in here in the first place. By the way, you are the LAST person to call us closed-minded. Why don’t you take a look at yourself before you judge what we and blogs such as this are all about, or is that too white for you do?
Sure, I throw out some 1 liner trash items. Plenty of others do too. Look at Herneith – when has she ever said anything worthwhile?? She just insults and she’s not even funny.
When have you said anything worthwhile? When have you said anything that HASN’T BEEN SAID BY OTHER RACE REALISTS? Herneith may say some worthless things to you, but she has never trolled, never disrespected, and never constantly repeated herself. You do those things Bliff.
And her insults are responses to nonsense and ignorance barfed on by race realists like yourself and your drones. What you say is disrespectful to us. So, don’t think for one second that you get what you dish out.
I made 1 mention once of “fried chicken” and everybody went crazy!! That’s nuts. That just shows there’s too much groupthink here. Everybody accepts what Abagond writes without question. I come here and to other black blogs and I see an alternate universe – one in which the only truth is that whites are racist against blacks……AND that’s it! That’s it??? That’s not even a start. You guys are WAY more closed minded than you fancy yourselves. YOU guys have the smug we-know-it-all attitude.
That’s is your problem Bliff, you can’t and won’t see where you are wrong or made a mistake. That’s narcissism at its worst online. People were upset over your comment because they were offended. No gives a shit if you weren’t offended by it, but here you are crying like a punk over what us racist black people are saying to you. Grow up, or get out whiner.
Why don’t you use your “superior” white brain and go to sites that share your mindset. That way you won’t have to deal with the insults here. Why can’t you do that? I’ll tell you, because your having fun with us. Your entertaining us. You don’t give a fuck about us which is clear. That’s why you say the things you say, and then act like a victim when any of us have the nerve to call you out. That is beyond immature.
Bliff, you are the one with a serious attitude problem, but you’re too full of yourself to want to admit it. You are the one who’s acting smug and thinks he knows it all. But the truth is, you’ve either been beaten by arguments, you nitpick certain parts on which to capitalize and/or you avoid matters that would have you think.
Frankly Bliff, you are the one with the problem, not us, not black people, and not our allies. You are the one who prefers colors to be separated because they simply aren’t white. You are the one who has a problem with black people, and you need us more than we need you.
And the reason why I respond you might ask? Well, why shouldn’t I?
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@ Brothawolf,
A…men.
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@ Bliff
Cool. As far as you and I are concern, we are starting over at square one and I thank you for being honest.
The two main problems I have with race realism are this:
First, and let’s be 100% honest here. When we talk about race being biological, most biologists will admit, while some people living in geographical areas may share certain traits which are detectable through DNA testing, there is more genetic difference within specific populations than there is between all Human populations. In other words, for the most part you aren’t going to find certain genetic markers only in Europe and absolutely no where else on the planet. Two European may be more genetically dissimilar than a European and an African.
What biologists are referring to in these DNA Ancestry tests is the amount of genetic markers in specific populations. In this way, while you can group people geographically, it isn’t really accurate to assign a racial classification based on this information. The main reason being, it is very subjective what genetic markers you actually choose to separate people into categories. There are no clearly defined boundaries. Different testing companies use different markers. That’s why if you take multiple DNA ancestry tests, the results won’t be quite the same.
Furthermore, when you are dealing with so-called mixed race individuals, you cannot predict what genetic material a person will end up with since DNA recombination is (as far as biologists can tell) a random event. Siblings will actually produce difference DNA results. Also, ancestry can be lost due to recombination. You can have a Great x10 Grandmother from Syria, and the amount of certain markers in the area to indicate such ancestry will not be present in your personal genome, lost to centuries of recombination.
So, biologically, Race Realism is already on shaky grounds. How many races are there? What markers will you use? How will you classify the so-called mixed races?
Second, I find IQ tests and the like very, very dubious. As I have stated to other posters- If African scientists gave White Europeans tests and their IQ turned out to be lower than the average African, you probably would be highly skeptical of those results. So, please, don’t blame us if we question the results from people who have historically oppressed us and have a conflict of interest when it come to the results.
There are plenty of scientific papers out there that question the methodology of the IQ tests, even the ones considered “culturally neutral”. The information is fairly vast, so perhaps someone else on here can elaborate on the technical problems with the IQ test. Or you can just google Abagond’s blog post on the subject. Bottom line, IQ tests are over rated and may be just as reliable as a lie detector. I know one of the co-discoverers of DNA, James Watson, stated in his biography that his IQ is 124. That isn’t even considered genius and the man is one of the Fathers of DNA. Makes you think.
In the end, I am skeptical about any information that says “These hundreds of millions of people are significantly different to these other hundreds of millions of people just because they look different.” It just doesn’t pass the sniff test. Under the skin, we are more similar than anyone would realize.
This is fairly long, so if there are any spelling/grammar mistakes, Oh well.
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You want to know what’s even weirder? My Irish Great, great grandfather wanted to marry his sweetheart, a Black woman, so he claimed to be a “Mulatto” and lived out his entire life as “Black”. If you look at the census records, you even see “W” for White crossed out and replaced with a “B” for Black.
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@ Bliff
I’d also want to say this. You and I, yes both of us, are brainwashed. You cannot be an American native born citizen and not be affected. It is this brainwashing that keep the status quo what it is. It touches everybody born here. It colors our every perception. Even when it seems like it’s your idea to do certain things, it simply isn’t so. I am 40 and I have only recently, within the past few years, even realized I was affected and I struggle daily to break my affliction. I must admit, the allegory of Plato’s cave did help a lot. If you can, find it on youtube.
When you see Blacks as inferior, you need to stop and say “Hold up. Why did I just think that?”. There may be differences between people as individuals, but the issue of race is not one of them. Believe me.
Go investigate one of these White trailer parks that litter this entire countryside. There you will find the most ghetto of ghetto dwellers. Are they Black? No. Study why they are in the position they are in then use that mindset and see how the Blacks got into the position they are in. It isn’t all about genetics and low IQ. Black people have been brainwashed and sabotaged by a system that oppresses them. We aren’t just pulling out race cards, flashing them at every opportunity. The system oppresses us while giving the illusion of freedom.
And speaking of freedom, how much freedom does the average White person think he will have if somehow Blacks disappeared. You know the system. Somebody has to be the new N****r and it isn’t going to be upper class White folks. All the lower class White people will be singled out and racial oppression will become a class based oppression. That alone shows you the necessity for all classes of Whites to knowingly and unknowingly engage in the sabotage of Black people in America. “Hey, better them than us!”
Racism is a tool for the upper class oppressor, who knows better than to underestimate anyone regardless of his color, to control a system where he can benefit at will and make the world his playground.
This is the world we live in and we have to question everything.
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@Robert
Something for the weekend…
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBYrygaunM4)
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@Robert
Something for the weekend…
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBYrygaunM4)
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUPbVgvG0rA)
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMZYlTXLqiA&feature=related)
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@ SomeGuy,
For well stated on all accounts. Thanks for posting that! =)
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@SomeGuy
Great post.
Class warfare has always been interesting to me. I live in Northern Virginia where the population is diverse in race and wealth. I’m not wealthy by any stretch of the imagination, but in my line of work I need to occasionally correspond with some of the “upper class rich folk”.
I can tell you from personal experience, the most consistent thing about them as they speak with me is their stand-offish demeanor, not the color of their skin. At least not around here.
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I almost spilled my coffee on my Dell because of the above Herneith. I can’t read Herneith while I’m eating or drinking. Rice grains fly out my nose, I nearly kill my laptop with my coffee etc….
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@satanforce
Your threshold for comedy is apparently a lot lower than mine.
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@ Leigh
I’m so sorry Leigh (sending warm hugs to you). My condolences to you and your loved ones. Thank you for sharing your story with us. You will be in my prayers.
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Racism is slowly killing me…
Dear God, save me from this deep valley of suffering…..HEAR ME PLEASE!!!!!
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@ SomeGuy
That was an excellent and in depth analysis you posted. Probably one of the best I’ve read in these threads for a long time on the impact and causes of class and racism. Its the type of awareness presented here that Bliff struggles to convey to a mass audience outside the cult of delusional race realism.
If Bliff could take time to put his ” white man is superior ego” aside for one moment he could actually learn SomeThing from SomeGuy!!!
After all thats what spending time reading this blog is for isn’t it? To learn something new?
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@ abagond
You know what’s scary about your posts?
Doug, destructure, Randy, Bliff and countless others could be our bosses, neighbors, friends, priests, even boyfriends. Being behind a computer screen gives them a truthful voice, one they do not feel thay have in public.
When I read Doug’s comments justifying a death of a young black kid, I wonder ” who is he?” Where is he typing from? Next door? At work where I sit? Is he that same chap who I wave to in the cafeteria at work?
I am insane to feel that the level of pathology that occupies the white mind is too harsh, too deep, too ingrained to be fixed? Does it make me no better than they to feel fear and violent anticipation when they fix me with that cold, empty blue stare? Am I finally going mad to feel my heart skip a beat when a strange white man approaches me, when I am alone, albeit smiling, to ask for directions? How funny that the same reaction and thought process we feel towards them, they have towards us!
I never thought myself to be fearful of “others”. I grew up with countless “others ” around my kitchen table. I call them auntie, grandma, cousin and uncle. But reading your blog, Brothawolf’s blog and Ankensen’s blog, has
taught me that whites, the vast majority of them, in America, hate us. And wish to see us destroyed.
How can these people look at themselves in the mirror and feel good about themselves? Or is that a falseness too? Is anything about whites real? The grin, the stiff-necked way they try desperately to avoid looking at you in the hallway at work. Let’s not forget the surprise on their faces when a “truth” about their racism comes out and the sad way they fight to regain control.
I’m at yet another crossroad in my life.
Thinking about leaving medicine to work from home with a different career ENTIRELY.
Thinking about leaving the country and the American way of life.
Thinking about all the past relationships I’ve had with whites and the horrific way they ended with a racial slur, a prejudiced act or just plain cruelty.
The pathology of the White Mind remains to be a burden for them and us.
The difference is: we admit it.
They remain in denial.
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@Kwamla
Please read my post at Fri 30 Mar 2012 at 02:15:52. Does that sound like ” white man is superior ego” ? To me, to claim being “superior”, would be to claim one is a better human being all the way around. I carefully limited what I thought whites are generally (most, but not all whites) better at, which does not include every aspect of being human.
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@ Bliff
I read your comments earlier up the thread, though to be fair my last comment was posted before I read that one. Nevertheless, its the overall attitude my comment refers to which is encapsulated by the “odd funny jokes” you’ve often made to past commentators.
Given you’ve now taken to adopting a “new leaf” of frank, open and honest exchanges maybe you would like to elaborate your thoughts on: Why you believe white and Black peoples (POC) should have separate human potentials rather than one (human potential) expressed in a multitude of different human forms?
Or do you already agree with that statement?
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RIP Kendrec McDade
Another unarmed Black teen slain. Oscar Carillo has been arrested with involuntary manslaughter.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2012/03/pasadena-shooting.html
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@Demerera
Nice thanks. Have a good weekend 🙂
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@truthbetold
Honest question with nothing meant or implied “between the lines”.
Is it only interaction with white people that triggers that kind of high anxiety response?
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This is a powerful poem regarding our brown boys. Bassey truly is a work of art. She speaks truth so plainly and freely. She speaks with words, what my heart feels inside for my own beautiful brown boys.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOhDxazH8tw&sns=fb)
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@ Don
Why do you ask questions to which you already know the answer?
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@truthbetold
It is an honest question, with nothing meant or implied.
I do not know the answer. If you do not wish to answer I will respect that.
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@ Don
May I ask, are you over 30 years old?
Do you live in the US?
If you answered yes to these questions, then you must know my answer.
You simply cannot be that naive. Noone can. Not in these times.
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@JT
Fine. Let’s pretend that we need you. Now tell us: why do you need us. Don’t cite humor, entertainment etc. Existentially speaking, why do you need Abagond and company?
I think part of the problem is in the use of the word “need”. I originally stated “This blog needs me for [different opinions]” Instead of “need” let me rephrase that as “This blog could use different opinions from someone like me, who won’t just parrot what Abagond writes”. Therefore, it doesn’t sound like anyone is “needy” in the psychological sense and must do something, like come to this blog, because they are irrational.
Having that established, I can simply state that I come here for much the same reasons that you do – I’m interested in the race relations topics. Its an interest.
Our reasons probably diverge from there.
You may come here because you agree with much of what is said and to talk with people who think like you.
I come here, besides my general interest in race relations, because I see a lot of what I consider outrageous opinions. So I come here to see what makes the Abagondites (black and nonblack liberals who largely agree with Abagond) tick. And to express my different opinions. The responses to my posts have been interesting.
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@truthbetold
You know what’s scary about your posts?
Doug, destructure, Randy, Bliff and countless others could be our bosses, neighbors, friends, priests, even boyfriends.
You should b e so lucky to have these types of relationships with people like us. We have different opinions, but we’re not monsters. I’ve had blacks work for me and have had no problems. Of course, we never talked about race relations in the work setting. I am sure that I would not mind having most of you Abagonites as neighbors, etc.
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@truthbetold
I did not think it would be fair to assume, so I asked. I will drop it.
I am 30, and yes I live in the US. I live in Northern Virginia near D.C. Where do you live?
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JT,
I read about that last night somewhere. It just keeps getting worse and worse.
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@Bulanik
lol good songs thanks 🙂
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@Kwamla
my comment refers to which is encapsulated by the “odd funny jokes” you’ve often made to past commentators. Well, that’s not going to stop. Sure, occasionally I throw out a joke post, but usually I just throw in some jokes when I am making a legitimate comment in the rest of the post. You may have noticed I am fond of the word “dumba$$”. I do reserve it for true dumba$$s, mainly those Abagonites who will make overgeneralizing disparaging remarks about me or white people when it is not called for.
Given you’ve now taken to adopting a “new leaf” of frank, open and honest exchanges. No, there really hasn’t been any change in me. What I expressed in the Fri 30 Mar 2012 at 02:15:52 post is compatible with how I was before I wrote it. The only thing that changed was that SomeGuy opened up and prompted to write that post. I’ve always felt that way. Nobody on this blog has ever been interested in asking me about this. So I never wrote it until now.
Why you believe white and Black peoples (POC) should have separate human potentials rather than one (human potential) expressed in a multitude of different human forms? I believe there are biological differences between blacks and whites. The biological differences are a part of why blacks and whites develop separate cultures. Blacks have a number of traits that put them at a disadvantage in white culture. Now, if the blacks were living in a black culture, then they would not be at a disadvantage. But they don’t; and the rest of the world has adopted white culture, so there is no getting away from it. Many cultural differences between blacks and whites are just that – different, not better or worse. But humans are social and cultural beings, and we cluster together among those that are similar socially and culturally. That’s just how we are. Many of the differences that drive us a part may seem irrational, but that’s how our emotional mind works.
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@the world we live in:
Thank you for your sympathies. It’s been a month today since my mom passed away from cancer. I just came back from visiting her grave and I placed several bouquets of roses alongside her headstone. I broke down when I started “talking” to her telling how much I loved her and will always remember her. I miss her terribly. Again, thank your for your kind words.
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I think I much prefer this type of discourse to the exchanges of the past. Much less drama, and much more actual discussion.
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@ Don
In northeastern PA, in a rural farming community, true to my peasant roots, which I’ve never abandoned. Don, you cannot be this naive. Not really. Not in the US, not today, not in Virginia, not being a white man, not in 2012, with all the stuff you hear, and read, and see.
I’ve been in Blacksburg, Roanoke, Radford at Carillion New River Valley Medical Center where we set up ” accu-ready” medical programs to help the “under-privileged”, where I was told to go home, don’t come near my daughter, are you licensed to do this, where did you go to school, and my personal favorite, can I be serviced by someone else. Never mind that I am trained in surgical procedures. I’m black. Therefore, I am nothing. You cannot live in the south, yes, I know Virginia is Southeast, and be naive. I don’t buy it. And I know you don’t either.
And to answer your naive question, yes, I fear whites, especially cops or bobbies as we Brits call them, more than the ” black brute thug wearing a hoodie”.
And so no one gets all hot and bothered by this response, ( Bliff) I, as a woman, look around when I see ALL men, especially when I am alone. But white cops, with a badge to destroy and walk away, scott free, frighten me more than a black, brute stereotype ever could.
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@ Bliff
At your little ” you should be so lucky” comment…You are what’s holding back the small number of whites who actually seek change. You are the last remnant of your species, homo stupidus.
Because of your arrogance, racism, denial and mockingly dumb dialogue, you’ve tainted your race to a monolithic, singular-minded drone.
I know you wish to mock us, I believe you stated, ” for my amusement”, but we’re serious in our attempts to heal from the damages caused by your kind.
If anyone should be happy and lucky to be here, it’s you.
Not many people would tolerate you, but Abagond does, for reasons I suspect to show us that racism is real, thriving, forceful and contagious.
I feel sorry for you.
I constantly vacilate between contempt and pity.
Enjoy your golf game.
Jerk.
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@Peanut – Learn to laugh about it all, or all the trouble and horror in the world will destroy you.
Unrelated, but it looks like talking about Obama almost made Santorum froth all over his campaign. Video at link.
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/03/30/rick-santorum-stops-himself-from-calling-president-obama-a-nr-video/
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I am not a Southern, pot-bellied, Baptist Sheriff.
Well at least the pot-bellied Baptist sheriff is honest! He’ll tell you he hates blacks, not claim to be a edumacated ‘race realist’. When asked why he will reply;”Because my pappy and his pappy before him didded”. He will then offer to buy you a beer because underneath his hatred of blacks , he is a nice guy!
Though I believe blacks have some traits that hold them back in Western societies – lower IQ, more impulsive, less planning or forward thinking, that says nothing about them as persons.
Yes it does. It says they are a bunch of dumb kneegrows, infantile in nature, needing the help of of pappy… I mean white folk. This is what you really mean.
If you knew me personally, and we didn’t talk about racial matters, you would NEVER know about the race realist beliefs I hold. You would generally think of me as an OK guy.
This is what is actually scary, you may think the nice polite white person you are talking to actually sees you as human. In reality they are looking at you and thinking;you dumb kneegrow you, or other rancourous thoughts!
race realists are not stereotypical people.
Says the blowhard who just stereotyped Southern Baptist sheriffs among other groups. Folks I couldn’t make up the poopie this guy does!
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@truthbetold
NO, you’re the JERK !! We have different opinions than you, and you want to paint people who think different than you as monsters.
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@Bulanik
I feel that when mature and uplifting discussion is encouraged, it not only nourishes, but it also restores us with a little more faith.. Then why don’t you try it sometime, Bulanik. You’ve made plenty of nitwit, overgeneralized comments about white people that I’ve called you on. That shows you don’t practice what you preach. You have also only singled out people you agree with for praise, which shows your one-sideness.
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Whatsa matter Bliff? Did I touch a raw nerve?
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@Someguy
Redone
What biologists are referring to in these DNA Ancestry tests is the amount of genetic markers in specific populations. In this way, while you can group people geographically, it isn’t really accurate to assign a racial classification
Yes, DNA tests show the structure of our genes, i.e, what some segment of the genome looks like, or some representation of it, laid out linearly. This is useful for showing ancestry and for the CSI-type DNA identification analysis. Since we inherit one part of the genome each from each of our parents, and they in turn from theirs, the DNA structure can be used to construct ancestry trees.
However, when we’re talking about DNA works to create an organism, we’re talking about gene function, not its structure. How the genes work cannot be determine from its structure – you cannot tell what the genes do just by looking at a DNA sequence.
All of the genes (genotype) interact with each other to create the organism (phenotype). In addition, the genes are affected by the environment and development in the womb and in the early years. Therefore, we have
Genotype + development + environment -> phenotype
There is no simple linear, 1-to-1 correspondence between the genotype and the phenotype.
Consider the human and our closest relative, the chimpanzee. Gene sequencing has determined that we share 98.4% of our genes. That means that we only differ by 1.6%. I hope it’s obvious that a small genotype difference (1.6%) results in a large phenotype difference (between chimpanzees and humans).
Similarly, the average genotype difference between blacks and whites is 0.16%. If a 1.6% difference can account for the large difference between chimpanzees and humans, then I think there is a potential biological basis for some differences between blacks and whites.
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Bliff,
Truthbetold isn’t the one who call people out just because she disagrees with them. She isn’t the one who made asinine jokes at others expense and then get upset if they get offended. And she has definitely is more than capable of listening and learning more than what is simply taught to her.
In short Truth is much more mature than you on this blog. That is a fact, sir.
She doesn’t want to paint people who think different than her as monsters. She has a problem with those who classify her people as having inferior traits. She has a problem with dealing with a system and mindset that tells her everywhere that she is different and therefore inferior to those will paler skin. And she has a problem with those who defend them.
I’m sure it’s hard for you to understand seeing as how your conceitedness prevents you from the emotion of empathy let alone sympathy. To you she and black people are not “real” people. They are beneath you, especially the ones on this blog who checked your ass numerous times. And that’s what pisses you off, someone telling you that you are wrong or that you have a problem as if you’re the model of perfection, or at least that’s how you parade yourself on here.
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@truthbetold
I’ve not been to Northeast PA, but I’ve been to those places in Virginia. I choose not to live there because I don’t like the culture there. Not to mince words, they’re backwards. I have no reason to doubt your experience there. I could not see that happening where I live. Actually I don’t care much for the culture where I’m at either, as most people are jerks, but I’ll take it over backwards. People who live in Northern Virginia, always make the distinction “Northern Virginia”, precisely because we generally don’t want to be associated with the rest of the state.
Here’s what I do know. If there is a conspiracy against POC, I’ve been left out of it. I don’t hear about it. I’m not approached about it. Nobody ever has a conversation with me about it. No whispers, mutterings, or sneers when someone thinks the POC can’t hear. Nothing. Maybe there’s some mark of the supremacist that I don’t have so everybody knows to keep their mouth shut around me.
Or, it doesn’t exist within the main-stream middle class where I live.
Regarding cops, yeah, we’re pretty much on the same page. I fear the police too. Their words are assumed to be truth, and therefore their accusations are treated as compelling evidence. I don’t trust anybody given that sort of power. But I always try as hard as I can to give an individual officer the benefit of the doubt and the opportunity to earn trust. I have met and befriended some great people who I’ve met as officers.
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@Someguy
I find IQ tests and the like very, very dubious. As I have stated to other posters- If African scientists gave White Europeans tests and their IQ turned out to be lower than the average African, you probably would be highly skeptical of those results.
IQ tests were not developed by whites just to smear blacks. They had their origin in Alfred Binet developing tests in France to determine if a child would be able to attend school when universal schooling was being developed.
The IQ concept applies most accurately to large groups of people. If you selected a 1000 people at random and tested their IQ, you would find, statistically, that the higher IQ people were more successful and clustered in the higher paying jobs and the professions, while the lower IQ people had more menial jobs. If the IQ concept is applied to one individual it’s harder to predict what your success is likely to be.
IQ is thought to be roughly 50% inherited based upon twin studies.
IQ is normally distributed through populations of people, ie., a bell curve distribution. The IQ distribution of blacks is shifted down from that of whites by a significant amount, one standard deviation. The lower IQ of blacks is thought by many to be part of why they have a hard time advancing socially and economically in Western societies.
The IQ findings are controversial. If that was all there was to black intelligence, then it would be controversial.
The IQ findings do agree with other facts:
· Blacks lag 3-4 grade levels behind whites in math and reading achievement and it has been this way for decades. There has been some recent improvement with better funding of black schools, but it has not lead to any major changes.
· Poor funding of black schools has been the suggested as the main culprit, yet Washington DC schools have recently spent as much as $20,000 per student and no permanent improvement in black achievement has been attained.
· SAT scores indicate that the gap between white and black students increases for students in good communities and schools (high social-economic status). This means that middle or upper-class black students in good schools do worse than middle or upper-class white students in good schools, and at a wider gap than the poorer students.
· HeadStart and other programs designed to help young minority students do not work.
· Other novel teaching programs (charter, magnet schools) designed to help blacks have met with limited success.
All this indicates that blacks may have less general intelligence that whites.
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@Bliff, could you some sources for those statements? About investment in schools not working?
I just really want to see them because most Sociologist have noted that when people have the same socioeconomic status (SES), that things such as income, educational attainment, home ownership, etc. are virtually the same across racial/ethnic lines.
There are also multiple factors affecting performance. One of which is the quality of food. The body and brain needs proper nourishment in order to function properly. Surrounding resources besides schools should also be considered. I truly disagree with any possible assumptions of lack of performance due to race rather than accessibility of resources and/or other factors.
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@Bliff
Regarding the schools. The information is correct, the conclusion is wrong.
I grew up in the D.C. area, went to school in the D.C. area, and I still live here. The cause of the disparity is social.
There were distinct social differences between most (not all) of the different cultures.
I promise you, the black kids were not dumb. I knew these kids, I was right there with them. However it was not cool for them, in their social environment, to do well, so they didn’t.
In the “white” social environment, it was exactly the opposite. Especially among the white kids of richer parents. If you weren’t honor-roll you were some kind of loser.
That performance difference exists entirely because of a difference of motivation, not capability.
This is one of the problems with statistics. What we have are numbers, and interpretations of those numbers. Interpretations are just that, interpretations.
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@deedee7789
About investment in schools not working? The case of Michelle Rhee and the DC schools can be found throughout the blogosphere.
I truly disagree with any possible assumptions of lack of performance due to race rather than accessibility of resources and/or other factors.
Yes, people have been avoiding the race aspects since at least the 1960s. I has simply become an article of faith among the liberals that race could not possible have anything to do with black underachievment – but the evidence suggests that it does.
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@deedee7789
See “Why Race Matters” by Levin or “The Bell Curve” for the race argument. Liberals have trashed these because they don’t want to believe it. Read them and see what you think.
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@Bliff, I looked up Michelle Rhee and that was…disappointing to read. She is really failing those children.
Maybe America as a society is failing its children in the education system. I’ll try to find where I read it at but apparently foreign children tend to perform better than native American children. America is still the least developed of all developed countries. It is just fail all around…
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I’ve been reading Abagond’s blog for a long time now and only recently decided to comment. As far as the racist commenters go, doug1, bliff, and others like them, I always skip over their comments. They don’t interest me in the least.
Anyways, keep posting Abagond! 🙂
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@Don
“That performance difference exists entirely because of a difference of motivation, not capability.
This is one of the problems with statistics. What we have are numbers, and interpretations of those numbers. Interpretations are just that, interpretations.”
Brilliant Don! You brought up very good points. Motivation’s impact on performance and issues of statistics. I actually have heard the motivation argument from a Stats professor I had and in a few articles in different courses. Motivation is a big factor.
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“Idiots and lunatics see only their own wit.”
-François de la Rochefoucauld
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There are genetic differences between two populations, Europeans and Africans, yes. However, two things to think about:
One, there is greater genetic difference between two Europeans than there is between a European and an African. Scientists have found that 85% of all human genetic variation exists within specific human populations while only 15% exists between all the different populations. To single out an entire continent as “different” would be a bit pointless.
Two, are the genes that are different noncoding DNA? Junk DNA, according to geneticists, do not affect appearance, behavior or anything else relevant. How much of the DNA difference is completely irrelevant?
They might have not been developed to smear Blacks, but they sure as hell were used to do so.
Basically, on the subject of IQ tests, you can pretty much skew statistics and results any which way you want them to go. You may trust that type of information. Some scientists may as well. I don’t. You pretty much aren’t going to sway me over to believing that Whites can give fair and honest IQ test to Blacks. If Black scientists would test Black children and come up with similar results, I may possibly think there is something to it. But I doubt it.
It’s my opinion, but I don’t think intelligence can be quantified in a written test and I don’t think Whites can be partial enough to apply it to Blacks. Bottom line. Take it as you will.
Liberal, leftist, communist, fascist, and other such labels are mainly used to slander someone who doesn’t agree with you. Personally, when I see those words, I don’t even want to respond. Those books you have mentioned are not universally accepted in the scientific community. So, as long as there is division, they are not set in stone.
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@ProudChocolateGirl
Lol, I am a proud chocolate girl myself and I agree with you. I don’t watch TV anymore at all because I don’t like most of the shows and I watch most shows on the internet. i watch a few things and that is it.
@Abagond
Good post
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Abagond,
What do you think of the NOM trying to wedge a gap and divide Blacks and Gays (I am aware that the groups overlap), but they are trying to divide and rule.
http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2012/03/27/452932/nom-doubles-down-on-race-wedging-and-confirms-its-use/
Its making sure that the marginalized coloreds are against the marginalized gays, never realizing that they are marginalized by the same people.
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@ Don
Living in NE Virginia and near DC, I find it hard to believe.
But my doubt is my own to deal with.
Fair enough response.
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Do the comments by Bliff and Doug surprise anyone here?
The candid racist statements, I mean. Who’s shocked that folks think that way?
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@ Peanut
That is a sarcastic Bambi. I had the same picture up soon after the execution of Troy Davis. It means the world is not the sanitized Disney version White Americans seem to believe in – in spite of (or probably because of) the vast evils they have committed.
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Has anyone heard the story about the racist store reciept? :
http://www.clutchmagonline.com/2012/03/smh-store-reciept-calls-woman-ugly-itch-from-ghettohood-usa/
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@abagond
Perhaps it is the time to do a post on libertarian Disneyland.
”
”
”
That’s brilliant, Bulanik! Abagond should totally do a libertarian Disneyland post.
LOL. If i could imagine one detail it would be: Costumed Ron Pauls at the entrance handing out his racist newsletters with a map of the park.
=D Kind of creepy if you imagine it. A dystopic theme park.
@ Abagond,
Have you ever written about Ayn Rand’s writings as the doctrine from which these race realists and tea partiers have driven their thought patterns from?
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SUPREME brilliance. =)
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=so2CjbqGMPQ&feature=fvwrel)
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@ Bulanik,
It took a couple readings to fully comprehend what you were saying. Very incisive and insightful statements.
“That’s why provocation grounded in cruelty is so useful.”
I think this is the subtext of their condescension. They actually believe that they are superior in some innate way. They think that history proves them true.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lehufwj6k68)
^^^
I like this too. =)
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We have different opinions than you, and you want to paint people who think different than you as monsters.
No Bliff, that would be giving monsters a bad name. Some monsters are actually cute, nice and cuddly, you ain’t!
Whatsa matter Bliff? Did I touch a raw nerve?
His hemorrhoid is acting up, preparation H may help Bliff. Either that he has run out of liquor and wine!
then I think there is a potential biological basis for some differences between blacks and whites.
What is that?, shapelier buttocks?
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@JT and Bulanik
I think this is the subtext of their condescension. They actually believe that they are superior in some innate way. They think that history proves them true.
Strangely though, those who ‘SHOUT’ the loudest about it are unable to ‘Represent’ in terms of their responses to comments on here and prefer to rely heavily on tired and outmoded text which they memorise and quote verbatim. The reason for this is often, they have had little or no personal interaction with PoC and have lived on a bible of stereotypes which they are more than comfortable with.
The more rational and informed the comment, the more peevish and ridiculous their replies which almost always end up with them responding as though they are the injured party, and that their sensibilities are continually being offended despite the fact that they are often the one relying on insidious propaganda to support their PoV .
@Don
I know you said that in your experience, you have no awareness of any potential conspiracy against people of colour, please keep the following in mind posted by a regular commenter on this forum:-
If you knew me personally, and we didn’t talk about racial matters, you would NEVER know about the race realist beliefs I hold. You would generally think of me as an OK guy.
The reality is Don, people don’t always say what they really feel but their actions will always belie their true motivations….
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Herneith
🙂
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I’ve just been reading about this on wikipedia but I’m not sure if I understood it right. According to wikipedia, in terms of nucleotide diversity, the human genome has 3 billion nucleotides, and two humans chosen at random have ~ 3 million nucleotide differences. So would it be true that I would have on average 2 550 000 nucleotides different from another white western-European and 3 000 000 nucleotides different from Black African? How much does it vary – are there some Black Africans who I’m more genetically similar to than some white western-Europeans?
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_genetic_variation)
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This is the truth- hence, the sheer arrogance of the commenter who truly believes that if the topic of ‘race’ is avoided, he’ll come across as an OK guy…the ‘average joe’, y’know?
I’m around ‘average joes’ all the time, and they really aren’t as clever or subtle as they believe they are. Their actions speak volumes…
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Strangely though, those who ‘SHOUT’ the loudest about it are unable to ‘Represent’ in terms of their responses to comments on here and prefer to rely heavily on tired and outmoded text which they memorise and quote verbatim. The reason for this is often, they have had little or no personal interaction with PoC and have lived on a bible of stereotypes which they are more than comfortable with.
The more rational and informed the comment, the more peevish and ridiculous their replies which almost always end up with them responding as though they are the injured party, and that their sensibilities are continually being offended despite the fact that they are often the one relying on insidious propaganda to support their PoV .
@ Demerera
This deserves to be reposted. Ill probably reread it multiple times. :):):)
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@Bulanik
Re the Plague:- I like this…its a really great programme bringing history to life in an interesting and humourous way which my kids enjoy..
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KHlIWpyJrQ)
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http://www.mediaite.com/tv/mrcs-brent-bozell-to-hannity-trayvon-martin-is-another-tawana-brawley-moment/
^^^
@ Anyone,
Sean Hannity has been playing up the same angle as most of the race realists on here: white victimization by the mainstream media.
You would almost think by their outrage that a white youth had been killed by a Black adult.
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(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XY3AvVgDns&ob=av2e)
Not gonna lie: have been a fan for awhile.
This song and video are BIG.
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Oops – meant to do the link …. forgot the brackets.
Sorry abagond and other board members
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@JT
Not gonna lie: have been a fan for awhile.
Of the song or the ladeeee 😉
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The lady ( i love the song and the video tho).
Beyonce is the greatest musical talent among our generation. She creates art when most of the rest of mainstream pop create holes in the ozone layer from all of their pollution.
Plus she is an icon of beauty. I think she has shifted popular misconceptions around figure, form, features, etc. Maybe not enough … it would be nice to see a dark female represented as the cleopatra of our time:
I think mrs. Kelly Rowland could very easily take that crown!
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1XozsBN5Z4&ob=av2n)
=)
‘
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Doh! DId it again. :$
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@JT
You have excellent taste…both in music and in women it seems 😉
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deedee, don, bliff, etal
The second blog post I wrote was on the “achievement gap” in schools. It’s pretty good if I do say so myself.
http://destructure.wordpress.com/2011/01/15/myth-1-the-achievement-gap/
=========================================
Scientists have found that 85% of all human genetic variation exists within specific human populations while only 15% exists between all the different populations.
Scientists have also found that 98% of all genetic variation between humans and chimpanzees exists within each species population while only 2% exists between the two different species.
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The question that should be asked is WHY some individuals go to such pains to demonstrate so called ‘gaps’ between different demographic groups? I KNOW some people are less academic than me and readily accept that there are people that are more academically competent than me but, does this define who I am? Am I rolling around in mirth at the stupidity of some? Am I intimidated by the intelligence of others? I am comfortable in who I am so I don’t NEED to source articles or measure myself against others to validate myself. Its easy to find information that ‘supports’ an opinion based firmly in one camp but, to find something that refutes this can and will in some cases, cause uncertainty and discomfort, something that some people cannot cope with as it unsettles them and shakes the very foundation of their entrenched beliefs. In other words its too frightening to contemplate…..
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@ Demerera,
Yeah, I guess. I just call it like i see it. =)
What type of music do you like?
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@JT
My tastes are eclectic to say the least. I vary from Pop, to Funk, Soul, Ragga, Reggae, Ska., Rock, R& B, Hip Hop..
I confess I collect vinyl and have 7″‘s from the late 70’s onwards, what do you like?
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Apples and oranges.
Look, you can’t just read a few blogs, a wiki and a couple of articles and become a geneticist. I do have a scientific background, not in genetics and I only understand the very basic elements of this biological science. It takes years for you to get a degree in the field and truly understand it.
If you want full clarity, time to go back to school. Don’t take my word for it or David Duke – the former Klansman who incidentally help jump start the revival of the Race Realism movement. If you are interested in the answers, you have to do the work. Personally, I don’t care one way or the other, as I am not here to convince, debate or influence anyone. Simply, not my job.
I say what I want, you take it as you want. Bottom line.
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Enough !! Im through listening to insecure white men hunker behind IQ tests and bell curves to try to establish some kind of intelligence differance between races.
The truth is , these tests dont really have enough depth and insight to really judge black American intellignece or genious.
There is enough black American intelligence in this youtube than you can shake a stick at the whole Ivy league. The bar that these gentlman raised at their expertese will be studied as the highest leval thinkers that were around at this time, for the next hundred years:
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTfBpKzu6XA&list=FL-pd9IT71oivlEcSw5o3m9A&index=81&feature=plpp_video)
You race realists and HBders, tell me what these geniuses are doing? Do you have any idea?
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With regards to my post above..
How do these ‘statistics’ define YOU as an individual? Are we to presume that you are in the higher percentile in terms of intelligence just because you have found information that states that the ‘majority’ of a certain demographic,(of which you may fit in terms of your race) are the smartest?
Surely this would be foolish on our part to believe this after all, there are exceptions to every rule…
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They have no inner sense of self-worth. That is why they must get it from a test, from the size of their bank account, from lies told in history books, from putting down others, from telling themselves “at least I am not a …”
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@ Abagond
Exactly, I can’t believe Doug had the hubris to say that he has never, ever personally met anyone Black that he felt was more intelligent than him. And he is 50ish and a former New Yorker??
That’s a bold statement.
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@SomeGuy
Exactly, I can’t believe Doug had the hubris to say that he has never, ever personally met anyone Black that he felt was more intelligent than him. And he is 50ish and a former New Yorker??
Aha! I didnt know what age he was. That explains his need to say that he is with a “much younger” partner (on another thread). We all have our little insecurities don’t we…… 😉
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As a white American male, I can definitly say most of the people who have inspired me in the USA growing up, who have given the most insights into how to survive out here, who my idols have been, who have shown great direction and insight , have been black Americans .
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@ Someguy
I’m starting to feel a little sorry for Douglas.
Maybe it’s my inner Buddhist coming out but under the falseness, I feel that he’s becoming unhinged.
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http://www.khou.com/news/texas-news/Texas-teacher-donates-kidney-to-students-father-144639035.html
A teacher donates her kidney and saves the life of one of her student’s father. Keeping faith in humanity alive. Loved this story.
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@ truthbetold
I kind of feel sorry for him, because the older you get, the less likely it is to break your cultural brainwashing. It’s probably buried so deep in his subconscious, it’s like a second heartbeat.
I think the strange thing is that though he not-so-subtly implies to be on par with a genius intellect, he has never really posted anything particularly insightful. Enemies as we are, I would still acknowledge any wisdom found in his words, but absolutely nothing comes to mind. Mostly, he just parrots what he’s read.
Narcissism indeed.
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@demerera
The question that should be asked is WHY some individuals go to such pains to demonstrate so called ‘gaps’ between different demographic groups?
I answered that in the very first sentence of blog post I linked above when I said, “Anywhere a disparity exists someone will claim it is the result of discrimination.”
There are some who actively search out disparity so they can make claims of discrimination. The only way to defend against such allegations is with evidence providing the real source of disparity i.e. differences in performance. If you don’t like people pointing it out then you’re going to have to do one of three things. 1 support your allegations with evidence. 2 Use evidence to undermine the claims with which you disagree or 3 Stop making the allegations.
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@SomeGuy
Apples and oranges.
No. It’s an equivalent comparison. You just didn’t like it. I also have a STEM background. And though it may take years of study to develop a deep understanding of a subject it doesn’t take years of study to understand the basics. Bottom line.
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@BR
tell me what these geniuses are doing? Do you have any idea?
Sounds like garbage to me. I’m not saying that just to be insulting. I realize some people like jazz. But I find it extremely annoying. Take Kenny G’s “Songbird” for instance. I think it’s a beautiful piece… until it gets to the second half. Saying that I merely “dislike” it would be an understatement. On the other hand, I have no doubt most here wouldn’t care for my choice of music, either.
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@abagond, someguy, etc
Speaking of inner self worth and narcisim.
Racial differences in narcissistic tendencies – Elsevier
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This is my conclusion:
Doug, Bliff, Destructure, and any other race realist here want to protect and defend the systems and mentalities of whiteness at all costs even if they have to sacrifice logic and morality to do so. That’s why they don’t believe that slavery or Jim Crow could have any effect or influence to contemporary events. That is why they defend white killers of POC, but will condemn POC killers of whites.
They’ve made it perfectly clear when they are going to great lengths to prove that black people are less intelligent and more impulsive than whites by using everything from the Bell Curve to Statistics. At the same time, as expected, they will prove the brilliant and saintly nature of white people. To them white people are above humanity, and blacks are the people that evolution forgot.
Whiteness seems to be vital to their existence. It’s like it’s the only thing that truly matters in their lives. The question is why are they so obsessed with whiteness? Were they heavily brainwashed since day one? Were they traumatized in life and to cope, take it out on an entire race of people? Are their lives devoid of success and accomplishments and their race realism is a product of extreme jealousy?
Who knows?
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Take it as you will. It has no value to me.
Blah, blah, blah, who cares?
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University of Southern Mississippi
Don’t they have a Dept. in charge of Moonshine and Tooth Juggling?
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@ SomeGuy
We don’t care but they care. They care enough to spout the same crap, day after day, to people they profess to think of as inferior. LOL!! It seems like they care what WE think much more than we care what THEY think. The irony of this completely escapes them.
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@ DarqBeauty
I love when they just quickly google some B.S. and try to pass it off as something they’ve known all along. It’s so obvious.
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@Someguy
I remembered reading the study last year. I only googled it to find a link to post. But it’s interesting that peer reviewed research is dismissed with smears and claims of “statistics be racist!” And yet you refer to others as being unreasonable. If these studies were so poorly done then one would think they would have easily been disproven by competing academics. But they’re not. Other research generally supports them.
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@DB, brothawolf, etal
I think you care a great deal about white people and what they think. I know abagond does. One only has to view his index to see that he’s absolutely obsessed. But there is a decided difference between our reasons for coming here. You come here for the echo chamber. I come here for a difference of opinion.
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@Someguy
while only 15% exists between all the different populations. And there is only 1.6% difference between humans and chimpanzees. This small difference holds the key information that allows humans and chimpanzees to develope so differently. It’s kind of strange that different human populations can differ by 15% and humans and chimpanzees differ by only 1.6%. This must be referring to different kinds of differences!! I’m not questioning either of the values – it just seems strange.
are the genes that are different noncoding DNA? Junk DNA, according to geneticists, do not affect appearance, behavior or anything else relevant You’re right that the noncoding DNA does not directly code for anthing useful, however, the junk DNA has been found to have a regulatory role in affecting how the coding genes work; the junk DNA helps turn the coding DNA on and off at different times. See “From DNA to Diversity” by Sean Carroll et al. Not light reading at all, tough going.
They might have not been developed to smear Blacks, but they sure as hell were used to do so. Simply not true at all!!! The much hated “Bell Curve” had only one chapter on racial IQ differences and they actually took a guarded, subdued position in that chapter. As I said before, people with an ax to grind attacked the Bell Curve. I read “Measured Lies”, a book reviewing the Bell Curve, and thought Measured Lies was a lie. Most of the articles criticizing the book had very little to do with the Bell Curve.
on the subject of IQ tests, you can pretty much skew statistics and results any which way you want Total BS. It’s possble to lie with statistics if someone is dishonest, but show how that’s been done with IQ tests.
If Black scientists would test Black children and come up with similar results, This shows you have an extreme racial bias and you don’t want to believe the IQ info just because you don’t like it.
don’t think intelligence can be quantified in a written test . I don’t IQ is the last or only word on intelliegence either. That’s why I listed other facts that are in agreement with the IQ results and show that blacks lag in achievment due to their lesser intelligence.
Liberal, leftist, communist, fascist, and other such labels are mainly used to slander someone who doesn’t agree with you. Funny you find these labels to be insults because I do too !! Whatever you want to call the criticizers, they have trashed the IQ findings unfairly. Most of these people are blacks, who don’t want to believe; educators, who’s job and philosophy is that everybody can be taught (it means money for them); and, politicians, who will do anything to please voters, and the IQ people are a minority of voters.
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@ Destruction
Abagond isn’t obsessed with whites.
Neither are we.
We are slowly unraveling the truth. Once discovered, it’s like butterfly wings. Always in motion.
But then again, I don’t expect you to understand.
Shouldn’t you be at Walmart in the bedding section?
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@ B.R.
As a white American male, I can definitly say most of the people who have inspired me in the USA growing up, ….. have been black Americans .
Oh, Please!!! Send more detail !! This I want to hear !!!
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@ DarqBeauty, Herneith
Oh, DarqBeauty, when you and I are wed, we can live in the suburbs. I will build a pen for your lions.. Herneith can be our sassy maid, just like on black TV shows. She can wear any frumpy maid costume from the The Help that she likes. We could even have a reality TV show, showing an interracial couple with a black maid. That would be a gas!!!
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@ destructure
So you come here to get a difference of opinion, from people you think are inferior? LOL!!! 🙂
~~~~~~
So people, destructure (and Bliff and Doug1) comes here telling us that we are biologically inferior. Of course we are going to have a differences of opinion concerning this. Does he,out of his extreme narcissism, think we will agree with him on this? His logic is reaching MC Escher proportions. Illusion, false pathways and continual loops abound. He’s a racist and he’s trying everything possible to call himself everything but what he is. I like my white people like I like my coffee. Cold, bitter and straight up. This pussy footing around using verbal semantics is making him look less intelligent and rational with every comment.
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@demerera
The question that should be asked is WHY some individuals go to such pains to demonstrate so called ‘gaps’ between different demographic groups?
Are you kidding me ??!! This goes to the very HEART of this blog and entire race relations question. The Abagondites believe that poor race relations and poor black achievement is due to racism by whites. We treat them bad, we won't let them have good jobs, the police harrass them, etc.
My whole point is different – White racism barely exists. Blacks underachieve in USA because of their lower intelligence, more impulsiveness, and poorer at planning ahead. Whites are different from blacks in this regard, and feel separate from blacks because of these , and other racial differences.
It's not some idea were just obsessed with, IT ANSWERS RACE QUESTION.
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troofbetold
We are slowly unraveling the truth.
I suspect you get da troof from the Final Call.
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@Bliff
http://multiamerican.scpr.org/2011/02/growing-up-as-a-korean-born-african-american/
Unfortunately the original page is down but have you heard about Emile Mack? He was adopted by an AA family and grew up with much love. He loves his AA family and is still in touch with his S. Korean heritage and even adopted a S.Korean baby with his wife. He is (or was not sure) one of the top-ranking firefighters in the Los Angeles Fire Department. People can have close friends and mentors that are outside of their race/ethnicity. Although I know your comment for B.R. doesn’t mean you are not aware of that.
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@demerera
Reposted
The question that should be asked is WHY some individuals go to such pains to demonstrate so called ‘gaps’ between different demographic groups?
Are you kidding me ??!! This goes to the very HEART of this blog and entire race relations question. The Abagondites believe that poor race relations and poor black achievement is due to racism by whites. We treat them bad, we won’t let them have good jobs, the police harrass them, etc.
My whole point is different – White racism barely exists. Blacks underachieve in USA because of their lower intelligence, more impulsiveness, and poorer at planning ahead. Whites are different from blacks in this regard, and feel separate from blacks because of these , and other racial differences.
It’s not some idea were just obsessed with, IT ANSWERS RACE QUESTION.
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@ truthbetold
Did he just address you in “black” dialect? And right beneath that, Bliff is trying to tell us that white racism barely exists??
*laughing!!*
😛
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@Bliff
Please tell me you are kidding with your response to demerera….
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@deedee7789
People can have close friends and mentors that are outside of their race/ethnicity. I’m not sure why you told me this. Of course, people can have friends outside of their own race/ethnicity. I don’t choose my friends only by their intelligence; if fact, many of my friends are downright stupid, and they think that of me.
B.R. seemed to be saying that ONLY AA influenced him, plus I would actually like to hear his story.
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@deedee7789
Please tell me you are kidding with your response to demerera…. Nope. Why, do you have a different opinion?? I would like hear your side.
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@Bliff you misread B,R.’s comment. B.R. uses most not only so your skepticism shouldn’t be necessary. You also, skipped over the last line of my response saying I’m sure that you knew what I mentioned already….
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Fair enough. You and your compatriots are guilty of the same thing.
What I think is going on is a comparison of DNA strictly on a relative basis rather than there being a giant “X DNA scale” and this is where humans are placed and that is where chimps are on the scale. Furthermore, humans are about 96% similar to each other. I assume the 15% is in relation to the 4% margin. Admittedly, I’m only familiar with the basics.
I will check it out. Thanks.
I didn’t necessarily mean it was the authors intention. Only that others have used it for nefarious purposes.
True. I don’t trust the very methodology involved. Period.
I believe what I have said is true and I stand by it. Interpret that at your leisure.
I agree that many Blacks lag in achievement. I disagree on the reasons. If you read non-racial reports on the speculation, very few people agree on what those reasons actually are. Race realists act like they know, without question, what that answer is. Highly suspicious! Remember, your people work for you, not me.
As bright as you may be, you are no mind reader. I don’t think you or most Whites have enough contact with Blacks to tell me what Black people think.
Basically, I have lived long enough to know how this game is played. Most things are not about facts or truth. They are about the illusion of such things. Therefore, I question everyone that seems to be my enemy. If you do the same with Blacks, fine. But don’t expect me to view White propaganda in the same light. There is a history between your people and mine that involves deception and manipulation. If there are answers to find, me and my people will find them on our own. We don’t need anyone’s help in that department.
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DB
Why shouldn’t I address her in “black” dialect? I told you I attended majority black schools in a majority black city. What did you think I sounded like — Thurston Howell the 3rd?
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@DarqBeauty:
Illusion, false pathways and continual loops abound. ????? Nice prose, but what does any of this mean??
I like my white people like I like my coffee. Cold, bitter and straight up. You actually like us like this??? Or you find us to be like this?? Why would you drink this kind of coffee??
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…and yours from the Kloran. ;-P
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Someguy
I’ve actually read a paper from each. I found one just as ridiculous as the other.
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I suspect The Nation of Islam members are as rare here as the Klan is as well. You can usually tell both by their obtuse terminology.
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@Bliff
You’re really stuck on this IQ gap.
What is your evidence that the cause is genetic? Can you provide any citations?
The American Psychological Association does not believe the cause is genetic. Why do you know better than they do?
“The American Psychological Association, while maintaining the causes of the gap are presently unknown, stated that “what little [direct evidence] there is fails to support the genetic hypothesis.”
Here is my citation.
Click to access Neisser%20et%20al,%201996,%20intelligence.pdf
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Usually. But I’ve seen a few things come out of truthbetold that make me think she’s waiting for the “mothership”. That’s why I said it. I don’t think she’s an actual member but I think she’s been nibbling at the edges a little.
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Abagond is a brother, not a sister. I think I made the same mistake when I first started to read the blog.
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I misread your last post. It’s late for me here. My apologies.
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Oh, DarqBeauty, when you and I are wed, we can live in the suburbs. I will build a pen for your lions.. Herneith can be our sassy maid, just like on black TV shows. She can wear any frumpy maid costume from the The Help that she likes. We could even have a reality TV show, showing an interracial couple with a black maid. That would be a gas!!!
As far as I know, DarqBeauty isn’t a drunkard which she would have to be to put up with the likes of you. Remember you words Bliff:
race realists are not stereotypical people.
Says the one armed bandit! You are in a class by yourself.
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Don
he American Psychological Association does not believe the cause is genetic. Why do you know better than they do?
Not so fast.That paper acknowledges the intelligence gap and says that studies have found the heritability of IQ ito be between 0.7 and 0.8 in adults and 0.45 in childhood. It doesn’t take a genius to do the math on that one.
Btw, I’d already posted that exact same link on this blog in the past.
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I love how people consider “da troof” to be “Black speak”. Same people fail to notice the southerners who were talking that way a long time before it became popular to associate that sort of “speak” with any particular color. It’s just…funny to me. Then they claim to know black people…I just call bullcrap.
@ Bliff,
Again with the IQ? You do realize that (and this is something taught in any psychology tract in school, let alone any basic education) impulsiveness has little to do with IQ? It is a personality trait and cannot be attributed to an entire group of people. Also, unless you’ve met and talked to every black person on the planet, there is no way for you to judge whether or not they are more impulsive, less intelligent, or are less likely to plan.
If I used “realist” train of logic:
Say I’m from a xenophobic part of the Middle East and have a reputation for disliking Americans. I’m already biased, so you really cannot trust me to cite information that is balanced, I”m just too emotionally invested in disliking them. Maybe it makes me feel better about myself, or maybe I just like to piss on people who I already think I’m better than. Lets say I repeatedly make the claim that Americans are all stupid and fat.
I could pick up a “random study” that examines how many Americans can be called “obese”. There are plenty of obese Americans, after all right? I could then go on to specifically pick on a subgroup of Americans who I can use to prove my point without having to check any real numbers. Lets say that 35.7% of Americans are obese. Since the majority of Americans are white, I could then say that white Americans have a higher percentage of overweight individuals. I already don’t like white Americans, right? Well, there’s my in.
I could go even further, and tack on my already existing prejudices: Now, not only are all white people suddenly obese, but they are also unhealthy and stupid (both stereotypes attributed to overweight individuals, regardless of whether or not they are true.) I could even say that this proves that white people are all fat, lazy, unhealthy and undisciplined. It doesn’t matter that I refused to truly examine any outliers or exceptions, or even acknowledge that not all Americans are white, and many white Americans live a healthy lifestyle. It doesn’t matter that its in bad form to claim that all members of a group fit negative qualities I’ve assigned to them just because a few might. It also doesn’t matter that I decided to ignore all facts that go against my personal bias. It especially doesn’t matter that I am playing my “findings” as academic when if they truly were I would have been able to accept facts that work against my “theory”. All that matters is that I now have a “study” that proves that white Americans are inferior in a way that doesn’t require me to prove it. After all…everyone else things Americans are fat and lazy, right?
If that train of logic makes no sense to you and you are wondering how someone could come up with a conclusion that paints all white Americans as less healthy, fat and lazy, then you should understand why people here argue against your own ideas about IQ.
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@ Don,
Am I the only one wondering why people are still trying to tell black people what IQ they must have and how it must compare to others…while at the same time arguing against any living black person who says that they should know what their IQ is and it’s doesn’t work that way?
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@destructure
Not so fast yourself. Did I deny the gap? I spoke about witnessing the gap myself first-hand, however I also spoke about the cause of the gap that I saw first-hand.
My question was, again, what the evidence is to support that the cause of the gap is genetic? “Heritability” is nothing more than similar scores from one generation to the next.
I will let Bliff speak for himself, but if you are also of the same position as he is, and believe the gap is due to genetics, is this your evidence?
@Ace
You’re not alone man.
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@destructure
I think you care a great deal about white people and what they think. I know abagond does. One only has to view his index to see that he’s absolutely obsessed. But there is a decided difference between our reasons for coming here. You come here for the echo chamber. I come here for a difference of opinion.
I can flip this and say that you don’t really care about black people unless they do something that confirms your negatives stereotypes of them. That’s all that matters to folks like you. Stereotypes in your mind are truths.
Abagond is not obsessed with whites. Why would he be. Why would we be? However, this statement can also be reversed. One can say that you are obsessed with blacks and how they think. You come here quite a bit, right?
Also, destructure, didn’t you say in another comment you came here for entertainment purposes or something like that?
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Bliff,
Your narcissism knows no bounds. You love to point out “faults, mistakes, and sins” of other people but can’t take having the same done to himself. That is something only a punk-ass bully would do.
On top of that, you have the nerve to tell someone off in Ebonics?
Oh, I’m sorry. I can’t tell you the truth about yourself. That would be so wrong of me.
Then again, you have been ignoring my responses to you. Could it be that what I said about you was so true that it scared the hell outta ya?
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Excellent Melissa Harris-Perry segment:
http://www.thenation.com/blog/167043/growing-black-america
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Ace
arguing against any living black person who says that they should know what their IQ is
No one has claimed you were average. So the average doesn’t necessarily apply to you.
==================================
Don
My question was, again, what the evidence is to support that the cause of the gap is genetic?
Don’t embarrass yourself with word games. Heritability means genetic. Since 70 to 80% of an individual’s intelligence is genetic then any gap between populations would have to be largely genetic. It’s simple logic.
==================================
@brothawolf
I can flip this and say that you
You can flip and reverse anything you like.
didn’t you say in another comment you came here for entertainment purposes or something like that?
Yes, I find different opinions interesting. And I often find the explanation for those opinions amusing.
On top of that, you have the nerve to tell someone off in Ebonics?
Was dat meant fo me?
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@destructure, bliff:
You kids are funny. You make claims from “tests” which have been done how? You claim that poor school success shows that blacks have lower IQ? If that is a fact then, well, most white american school kids have something of a low IQ too when compared internationally. Just check the PISA studies from the past few years and their results.
American kids, and that includes all the white majority at schools, are doing rather poorly. Is it because they all, you white americans too, have low IQ’s?
Or could it be that your schools are such a shambles and poor excuses for schools that you are becoming just like any other Third world country because of the right wing management of the country which has been going on since 1984?
I mean, the right wing policies have bee implemented since the Reagan days and look where it has brought to you guys? From being the most powerful and progressive country in the world into a rotten giant teetering on the edge of total collapse and land of intellectual midget population which barely can read, but not comprehend what it is reading, in just few short decades.
And all this has been achieved by doing what the right wing has been demanding. Isn’t that funny? Is it not ironic, boys?
As for the biology of the race, your babblings about that show too how poorly you are educated and how ignorant and simple a grown up white american can be, despite all the schools he went to. Now that should give you a real pause. “How the heck we are this stupid and ignorant even when we are white americans??”
Thank god the science has been able to show, finally, beyond any doubt that there is only one human race on this planet. It may be beyond the cababilites of your understanding, and it really seems to be so, but blame that on your lowsy schooling. One can not expect any thing more from a white american when the school system is so bad in his country. Just check the PISA studies. Do not take my word for it.
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Really Rick Santorum…REALLY?
(http://youtu.be/egtaV6Pj8yI)
That was one hell of a Freudian Slip.
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How do these ‘statistics’ define YOU as an individual? Are we to presume that you are in the higher percentile in terms of intelligence just because you have found information that states that the ‘majority’ of a certain demographic,(of which you may fit in terms of your race) are the smartest?
I am perplexed by the beating of chests and jerking of phalluses by a couple of the commenters on here. It doesnt matter how many times THEY say that genetics, statistics etc prove the differences in intelligence, they dont seem to see that by continually posting on here and interacting in the way that they attempt to, that they in NO WAY prove that they are examples of all they assert in terms of this.
Anyone can go off quoting information that says that they are intellecutally superior but this DOES NOT prove anything about the individual who sources the articles themselves.
There are after all, exceptions to EVERY rule…….
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Its hard for my computor to post on Open Thread, because it takes so long to buffer up, but here goes….
Garbage, you call Miles Davis and Wayne Shorter , Tony Williams, Herbie Hancock, Ron Carter garbage ? That is so idiotic, they represent the highest leval American culture has ever reached. Not only will their work be studied in 100 years, they are vastly examined and studied in institutions of learning all over the world right now…You dont get it , that is all, because they are geniuses working on something way out of your leaugue to get…they are playing a 12 bar blues, but, infected with the total knowledge of 20th century harmony, and, the knowledge of African pollyrhythms and pentatonic melodies and all the black American experiance, in music, has to offer.
Bliff, absolutly on so many levals , I have been inspired by black Americans. I will never forget my childhood idols Jim Brown ( there is asomeone who has done incredible things for the comunity after his sports and movie days), Willie Mays, I was a high school college basketball player so, you dont know ball if you dont understand the balck American style.Black American music is the soul of American culture, even if you like rock ,you are listening to a white abheration of black American music, and most of my favorite musicians , like the ones I mentioned above, are black American , thrown in black Cuban, black Brazilian and black sub sahara Africa and you have my music tastes down and I love an idolise my favorite musicians !!
But, its much more than that. I was raised, thank God and to my wonderful parents who didnt do the white flight thing and purposfuly moved to an integrated neighborhood. I learned so much about dealing with life and the struggle out here from my black American collegues. I will never forget it and it is part of me and what I am today. I learned so much about living life and being in touch with my soul. I could go into much more depth about this, but it is way over your head
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I am really looking forward to new season of Game of Thrones. =)
http://www.theurbanpolitico.com/2012/03/television-game-of-thrones-s1-recap-and.html
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@ Bulanik
Embedded videos will make the Open Thread too slow to be usable. Unfortunately WordPress now autoembeds YouTube videos. To defeat that put the YouTube link in parentheses, like this:
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q33NlOhBgso)
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Destructure
Yeah, its a 12 bar blues , the same structure as you might hear from BB King , or, or I Feel Good by James Brown…
But, these guys are so advanced thinkers about music , that they put their advanced knowledge into the filter of a 12 bar blues. So when they play a 12 bar blues, its way too deep for someone like you to even understand.This isnt some kind of free jazz based on cacaphony, it is seriously stuctured.Funny, you think it sounds like garbage, but, scholars understand these musicians are geniuses and changed the face of jazz. This group is recognised as an innovative group in the deveopement of jazz combos. You do know that jazz and its black American roots is American’s cultural gift to the world
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By the way, anybody please correct me if Im wrong…
Dont the latest scientific discoveries indicate that we are operating from our subconcious intuitive being before the logic brain even reacts?
Doesnt this make all the IQ tests, the bell curve concepts , the whole bit , a relic that cant even be considered to judge real intelligence?
Dont we have to now consider intuition, improvisation, how we feel intuitivly ,how we react, as a serious part of intelligence also ?
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sam
First, the US school system is dominated by the left not the right. Second, the mean score of Americans with European ancestry is 524, compared to 506 in Europe, when first and second generation immigrants are excluded. Third, most first and second immigrants score about average for the country their families immigrated from. And, fourth, Finland scores well on the PISA there aren’t as many immigrants dragging down the national average. You must be one of the immigrants because you’re as dumb as a box of rocks.
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demerera
You’re right. Quoting stats about average intelligence doesn’t say anything about the individual quoting them. And I never said it did.
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BR
Garbage, you call Miles Davis and Wayne Shorter , Tony Williams, Herbie Hancock, Ron Carter garbage ? That is so idiotic, they represent the highest leval American culture has ever reached.
That’s your opinion because you prefer jazz. I don’t care for jazz so I have a different opinion. Calling names for having a different taste in music is about as mature as calling names for liking a different sports team. Meh. Whatever.
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BR
Dont the latest scientific discoveries indicate that we are operating from our subconcious intuitive being before the logic brain even reacts?
Pretty much. That’s why its important to consider studies and consider the arguments carefully rather than just pouncing on whatever suits your prejudices. You know, the way you guys do.
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sam
First, the US school system is dominated by the left not the right. Second, the mean score of Americans with European ancestry is 524, compared to 506 in Europe, when first and second generation immigrants are excluded. Third, most first and second immigrants score about average for the country their families immigrated from. And, fourth, Finland scores well on the PISA there aren’t as many immigrants dragging down the national average. You must be one of the immigrants because you’re as dumb as a box of rocks.
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@Sam
With regards to your post to destructure and bliff Sun 1 Apr 2012 at 07:47:44
I have asked this question for the third time now, as yet I have had no answer. Perhaps its best to ask seemingly challenging questions like this to quieten down the rabble whilst they look through their textbooks and articles to come up with an answer….
How do these ‘statistics’ define YOU as an individual? Are we to presume that you are in the higher percentile in terms of intelligence just because you have found information that states that the ‘majority’ of a certain demographic,(of which you may fit in terms of your race) are the smartest?
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How can they answer it when they dont even recognise the highest leval of cultural genius in their own country ?
Can you imagine someone in Europe not understanding the genius and cultural relevance of Mozart or Bach ?
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@destructure
“Don’t embarrass yourself with word games. Heritability means genetic. Since 70 to 80% of an individual’s intelligence is genetic then any gap between populations would have to be largely genetic. It’s simple logic.”
Word games? You could have used the word genetic, but you chose the word heritability. A word used so rarely as to be easily misinterpreted. I clarified to make sure we’re on the same page.
“Since 70 to 80% of an individual’s intelligence is genetic…”
You say 70 to 80% of intelligence is genetic. What is your source?
“…then any gap between populations would have to be largely genetic. It’s simple logic.”
No, it’s not so simple. Your genetics are only one part of the story, and right now the significance of that role is a number you’ve pulled out of your ass until you start citing sources.
Environment is another part of the story. Particularly the nutrition provided to infants in the first 2 years of their life. Poor nutrition, which is not only a 3rd world problem, prohibits proper development. This includes brain development which will directly impact how that child scores on an IQ test.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15734706
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Lol @ prohibits. Inhibits is what I meant. Haven’t had any coffee yet. xD
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@destructure
“That’s why its important to consider studies and consider the arguments carefully rather than just pouncing on whatever suits your prejudices.”
ROFL. Okay, Mr. I-can’t-see-any-cause-for-the-gap-other-than-genetics-because-it’s-simple-logic.
You pounced on genetics as the sole cause of the gap because it suits your prejudice. The only simple logic going on here is inside of your simple mind.
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@Bulanik & B.R
I also noticed that that question doesn’t ever get answered.
&
How can they answer it when they dont even recognise the highest leval of cultural genius in their own country ?
Odd isnt it, how quick they have been to provide generic statistics but how slow, or perhaps incapable they are of demonstrating their own intelligence….
Until they can respond on an individual level with unequivocal and irrefutable proof that they share the same genetics as the individuals used in these studies, they may as well be telling me that Humpty Dumpty sat on a Wall or that Little Beau Peep has lost her sheep….
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@Bulanik
….and which one do you think can’t be put together again?
Now that would be all the kings men but it cant be guaranteed that they have the intelligence to be able to do this. Its time to get that trusty old test paper out again methinks…. 😉
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Note to anyone that cares:
I am taking a week break from posting.
I need to focus more on final papers and final exams than race realists posting garbage.
They are irritating as all H#LL and they distract me from my work.
Best to all over the next week. I know that you can toss their flimsy arguements around know problem.
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Here is one of the main problems as I see it. I think many of us place far too much emphasis on the words of scientists, as if these people are beyond reproach. If scientists came out and said that eating dog feces promotes hair growth, then promoted the idea with peer reviews and started up the old BBC, FOX, CNN propaganda machines, people would actually start devouring dog poop. It’s strange how we may question the clergy, but if a man with a PhD says anything, especially if it’s something we want to hear, then it HAS to be TRUE.
Scientists are not holy priests, nor are they infallible or unbiased. I’m also fairly certain they had peer reviewed scientific studies in Nazi Germany when they tried to paint Jews as sub-human.
Almost nothing in the entire scientific spectrum is uncontested. Not in biology, geology, physics, mathematics or any other science. We drop science like it’s supposed to create a “checkmate” scenario, almost like we are dropping hydrogen bombs on each other. “BOOM! GOTCHA! I WIN! HOOWAH!”
The truth of the matter is that science is in a continuous state of flux, where something may be “factual” one moment, and irrelevant in the next. Do people think that decades old studies are relevant enough to be used still today? How many times have doctors flip flopped, saying “This is good, eat this!” then the next moment it’s “Stay away from that! It causes cancer”. All this happening in a span of a few months or years! Scientists are the world’s greatest propagandists.
I’m not trying to say science is necessarily a good or a bad thing. But you definitely can justify anything under the sun with just the right “scientific study”.
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@JT
All the best with th studying 🙂
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@ Demerera,
Thanks. Take it easy!!! =)
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Well, absolutly, Someguy !!
Even science has passed these people way by with this fact that the intuitive , subconcious being, is operating faster than the logical thinking brain. It should re-vamp the whole concept of intelligence tests.
Anybody in Great Britain see that docu where they change the intelligence test , to reflect other aspects of intelligence and Bonnie Greir , a black American from Chicago ties for first place with an advanced mathamatics professor ?
Intuition , subconcious, feeling it instead of thinking about it, instinct….I submit the gentlemen , I brought in above as masters of those elemets
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@demerera
I have asked this question for the third time now, as yet I have had no answer. Perhaps its best to ask seemingly challenging questions like this to quieten down the rabble whilst they look through their textbooks and articles to come up with an answer….
I answered it. It’s not my fault if you can’t read.
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@B.R.
I understand you’re a fan of jazz. I’m not. When I listen to it all I hear is fingernails on a chalkboard. But, unlike you, I’m willing to accept that different people have different taste in music. You seem to think everyone should share your preferences. That’s very intolerant and bigoted of you.
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@don
No, it’s not so simple. Your genetics are only one part of the story, and right now the significance of that role is a number you’ve pulled out of your ass until you start citing sources.
Yes, genetics is only one part of the story. And that part is 70 to 80%. The source actually came out of your “a$$” since you’re the one who linked the American Psychological Association’s report. Don’t you even bother to read your own sources???
ROFL. Okay, Mr. I-can’t-see-any-cause-for-the-gap-other-than-genetics-because-it’s-simple-logic.
You pounced on genetics as the sole cause of the gap because it suits your prejudice.
That’s not true at all. I’m relying on the information from the report you linked. If you didn’t like what it has to say then maybe you shouldn’t have linked it? You’re resorting to pure ad homs and that’s very immature. You’ve lost your objectivity.
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No , Destructure, this is not opinion or preferance, that group is praised world wide by scholars and people who know, as one of the most important innovating jazz combos in its history…
Now , you dont have to like it at all, but, your opinion of what its value is , is totaly worthless in the face of the reality of scores and scores of people who ackowledge that those gentlemen are geniuses and innovators of the highest caliber.
This is not up for discusion or opinon or preferance
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BR
This is not up for discusion or opinon or preferance
Well, then, if it’s “not up for discussion or opinion or preference” then that’s different. Bottom line. End of story. Nuff Said. Period. 🙂
Your desperation for musicians to be considered “geniuses” is a tacit admission that the evidence doesn’t support your arguments on real measures of intelligence. It’s called “moving the goalposts”.
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@ destructure
http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news/media/releases/this_is_your_brain_on_jazz_researchers_use_mri_to_study_spontaneity_creativity
🙂
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Oh well, I guess the fact that there are hundreds of institutions of learning around the world that totaly acknowledge the genius of these gentlemen and what they represent, means nothing to you.
White boys like you who cant acknowledge creative genius and have no idea what your American culture really is , sound like provincial country bumkins sitting on a log…
You all sound desperate, while the world and sciences move forward, discovering that our intuitive being is reacting faster, than the thinking mind, therfore changing the whole definition of what intelligence is , you all are stuck on some aging relic, that doesnt hardly fit at all into what the reality of life intelligence is all about.
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DB
From the article you linked… A pair of Johns Hopkins and government scientists have discovered that when jazz musicians improvise, their brains turn off areas linked to self-censoring and inhibition…
Yeah, that’s actually a race realist argument. That blacks are among the least inhibited and self-censoring demographics. Only they usually use the term “impulsive”. I think you’ve just admitted bliff was right! LOL!
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Also from the article,
“Limb notes that this type of brain activity may also be present during other types of improvisational behavior that are integral parts of life for artists and non-artists alike. For example, he notes, people are continually improvising words in conversations and improvising solutions to problems on the spot. “Without this type of creativity, humans wouldn’t have advanced as a species. It’s an integral part of who we are,” Limb says.”
Note the last sentence. You should have read it through. 🙂 Try again.
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@destructure
I answered it. It’s not my fault if you can’t read.
Wow. That certainly told me didnt it! How clever of you to respond in this way considering you are now maintaining I am illiterate, your ignorance clearly knows no bounds….LOL
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I don’t need to try again. That doesn’t disagree with anything I’ve said.
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@destructure
demerera
You’re right. Quoting stats about average intelligence doesn’t say anything about the individual quoting them. And I never said it did.
Au contraire, I think it says A LOT about the individual quoting them….
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demerera
Ok. If you say so.
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@ destructure
“It’s called “moving the goalposts”.
From the article itself
““Without this type of creativity, humans wouldn’t have advanced as a species. It’s an integral part of who we are,” Limb says.””
So as a “race realist/HBD” or whatever you call yourself, this SHOULD be a key point. To not acknowledge that is intellectually dishonest. You can’t refute this. And all the commentators and lurkers will see how subversiveness. Yo were just bested by an “intellectual inferior”. 🙂
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I hope you all got a good laugh from that one. I surely did.
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subversiveness works.*
Sorry, typing and eating ice cream at the same time is apparently something I cannot accomplish. Damn you pistachio!! 😉
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While waiting for a comment in moderations :
No, destructure, intuition, creativity, innovation, are all part of the new scientific studies about our subconcious and intuitive being as oposed to the thinking mind, and how those things are much more in effect than the thinking part of our brain…
look at this http://jazztimes.com/guides/schools?page=1
just for high schools, 149 PAGES of high shcool jazz programs, check out the colleges etc in the catagory box
the reason why your opinion is worthless about this is because the jury is already out about the genius of the gentlemen above I brought in. Most all those institutions of learning would agree that the gentlemen I brought in are innovative masters and creative geniuses
Innovation and creativity are large factors in defining genius, by the way
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BR, he just got his posterior handed to him and he knows it and everyone reading knows it.
I mean NO ONE can refute this statement made at the end of the article I liked to,
““Without this type of creativity, humans wouldn’t have advanced as a species. It’s an integral part of who we are,” Limb says.””
To refute this is to expose his own idiocy. 🙂
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..and thanks for that link, DarqBeauty , that is really fantastic…
Dont get me started on the genius of the African diaspora and the culture that was brought from the tribes in sub Sahara Africa, and, how deeply this culture has aspects that greatly value intuition, turning off the thinking mind, letting go, feeling it.Many of the aspects that new scientific discoveries are saying are really in effect inside of us
Think about that
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@ destructure
Just curious, how do you think you measure up to the standards of Western IQ tests?
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Oh DarqBeauty, I cant lie to you, your link just brought tears to my eyes , because it was something I have felt for so long, so deeply, and there is the verification right in front of my eyes…
Thank you
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You’re welcome, B.R. 🙂 It was my pleasure, believe me!
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@destructure
“Yes, genetics is only one part of the story. And that part is 70 to 80%. The source actually came out of your “a$$” since you’re the one who linked the American Psychological Association’s report. Don’t you even bother to read your own sources???”
What page? I’ve read it but I don’t see it. I make mistakes sometimes though so just quote the line and page number and if it’s in there I’ll concede it.
“That’s not true at all. I’m relying on the information from the report you linked. If you didn’t like what it has to say then maybe you shouldn’t have linked it? You’re resorting to pure ad homs and that’s very immature. You’ve lost your objectivity.”
I have nothing wrong with what is written in the report. You’re jumping to conclusions that the cause of the gap is genetic. The authors of the report themselves deny this. If you are trying to say that their report confirms it, you are choosing to ignore their own position. You’re choosing your interpretation over the author’s.
Again, you are pouncing on the genetics due to your own prejudice.
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@DB
Once again, that article doesn’t contradict anything I’ve said. I don’t know what you’re on about.
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@BR
No, destructure, intuition, creativity, innovation, are all part of the new scientific studies about our subconcious and intuitive being as oposed to the thinking mind, and how those things are much more in effect than the thinking part of our brain…
I haven’t discounted creativity and innovation. The problem is you’re relying on a musician to make an unsupported generalization about group average intelligence because you can’t address the evidence regarding the “thinking part of our brain.” For the sake of argument (and laughs) let’s say that Miles Davis is a musical genius. So? You can stroke it to Miles Davis all you want. I still think jazz sounds like fingernails on a chalkboard. That’s my opinion and I think that bothers you more than anything — that I don’t share your opinion of jazz. Jazz is obviously very important to you.
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@someguy
Just curious, how do you think you measure up to the standards of Western IQ tests?
I’ve been given a professionally administered IQ test and scored well.
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Destructure, stop embarrassing yourself. It’s quite awkward to watch.
@ B.R.
destructure is one of our resident racists. You can hit him in the face with a two by four of information and he will swear it was a feather. 🙂 We are Black, therefore everything we say is intellectually inferior unless it agrees with his logic. He never responds to WHY he comes to argue with and seek a difference of opinion from people he considers intellectually inferior.
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Don
What page? I’ve read it but I don’t see it.
Page 85. Results for IQ Scores. Parameter estimates.
“In childhood h 2 and c 2 for IQ are of the order of .45 and .35; by late adolescence h 2 is around .75 and c 2 is quite low (zero in some studies).”
And don’t even think about quoting the next line about environmental variance because it specifically states, “it primarily reflects within-family rather than between-family differences.”
You’re jumping to conclusions that the cause of the gap is genetic. The authors of the report themselves deny this. If you are trying to say that their report confirms it, you are choosing to ignore their own position.
The authors don’t deny it. They fall short of admitting it. But they don’t have to because it’s a matter of basic logic.
For example, Bessie is a cow. Cows have four legs. Therefore, Bessie has four legs.
Similarly, an individual’s intelligence is primarily genetic. There is a significant difference in the average intelligence of different groups. Therefore, the difference is primarily genetic.
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DB
Ok. If you say so.
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I hear you , DarqBeauty, and, he prides himself on being the facts man. I bring in proof that there are hundreds of institutions of learning, who are teaching the fundimental principles that these gentlemen I brought in innovated along with their other colleagues before them. They are considered geniuses , and, it has nothing to do with some kind of IQ test or bell curve. Scholars the world over agree that they formed one of the most important innovative jazz groups anywhere , and, there is a long list of black American innovators who could also be considered bona fide geniuses ( I mean is Mozart a genius ? Bach ? Stravinsky , they thought he made music like chalk on a board etc). This really is his culture, that he just doesnt want to know about….
Yet, he is pessesive of his opinion
Personaly, I could care less about his opinion, Im trying to tell him that in the face of enormous facts and general agreement by experts in the feild , his opinion doesnt mean much, so it doesnt really bother me at all….Of course he has the right to not like it, I bet a lot ofpeople on this blog might not like it, but, it is already history, this is important music that will be studied for decades to come as really important music that was made at about that time , 1965, it will be studied more than the Beatles, Rolling Stones and Bob Dylan, you can bet on that…beleive me, I have to be unbeleivibly concentrated and focused to follow the 12 bar blues structure ( they do go free from it at times, like the drum solo), but, these incredible musicians arnt really trying to entertain me or anyone else, they are pushing themselves to their full limits to find new directions in jazz. To innovate new ways to aproach it…its incredible , its deep,
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And that is the thing, Destructure, the line is long for these black American geniuses :
Louis Armstrong ( no less than Bing Crosby, Frank Sinatra, Billie Holiday, Ella Fitzgerald , Tony Bennet, all say that they owe him for their singing style, he changed everything. He also changed everything with his trumpet)
Duke Ellington
Charlie Parker
Dizzy Guilespi
Buddy Rich ( ok, a white Jewish guy, but , heck of a drummer and actualy Papa Jo Jones was who he emulated)
Elvin Jones
John Coltrane ( this guy reached the sky)
Mccoy Tyner
Bud Powell
the list goes on and on. If you are looking for real life intelligence, genius, innovators, giant creativity, and, qualities that seriously fit into the new scientific discoveries about the intuitive being inside of us, these black American jazz innovators, more than fit . If you understand about these new discoverires, a person has to take a totaly new look at any notions about intelligence on a general leval
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BR
Me. Whatever. You still haven’t addressed my last comment.
I haven’t discounted creativity and innovation. The problem is you’re relying on a musician to make an unsupported generalization about group average intelligence because you can’t address the evidence regarding the “thinking part of our brain.”
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No, wrong, Mr Destructure, Im saying if you really understand the new discoveries of what really is happening in human conciousness and sub conciousness, then group average intelligence has to be judged differantly , and , a huge amount of people that have been sluffed over before, or , thought of as less intelligent, will be thought of as very intelligent..start with the list I just brought in
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….and my poor spelling is going to seriously affect the group average that I am in , seriously downward…..( white)
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BR
If you’d like to make some points that musical ability should be considered a form of intelligence then that’s all well and good. But you’ve used it to deny group average differences in general intelligence or “g” in spite of evidence to the contrary. Furthermore, you seem to be using anecdotes to imply group average differences in musical ability. And while I don’t doubt there are, anecdotes certainly can’t be used to show it. Finally, while I don’t doubt that some have more musical ability than others it certainly isn’t the same kind of general intelligence or “g” that we’ve been discussing.
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But , Mr Destructure, I thought these new discoveries have made the old, really old IQ test, bell curve, stuff of my time, not as relevant for now…I mean everything else has changed, everything, but we are going to stay stuck in something that more people have found holes in than question Miles Davis’s genius….? In direct contrast to new scientific facts and discoveries ? Im sorry to say, you are wrong
What is the anecdote ?
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You people sure have flung a bunch of it since I was here last night. This could be a full time job just keeping up wih this blog. I might have to give up golf………….Naaaaaa!
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How was your drinking binge?
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Good luck, JT. I hope you pass your assignments and finals.
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@Don on Sun 1 Apr 2012 at 04:22:18
What is your evidence that the cause is genetic? Studies of twins separated at birth and raised in different environments show that that the twins have IQ’s, and other traits, that are similar despite being raised in separate environments, hence the hypoethesis that there is a genetic basis to IQ. The correlation coeff (r-squared) is as high as 0.77 for this effect. Some of the studies have been criticized as having small sample sizes, etc. However, despite the criticism, I am unaware of studies that have ever shown the opposite, except maybe one study.
Though much aligned, the classic studies of IQ and brain size still survive. Blacks have smaller brains than whites, so this is biological evidence for IQ differences. Note that East Asian brains are larger on average that white brains, so this also agrees with IQ results that East Asians have slightly higher IQ than whites.
The failure of many early age intervention programs to boost black school achievement is also evidence of a genetic rather to lower black IQ.
Note that no serious IQ researcher believes that ALL of the lower black IQ is due only to genetics.
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Look, Departure, Biff, Doug….I know we white guys, what with the new scientific discoveries , are risking losing our second place status , from being behind the Asians, that must be scary….
Yes, we whites have invented some nice things and stuff, but, we are really stiff, and could learn a lot from our black American colleagues.
After all, we have handed them the raw end of the deal since the first slave ships came, all the way through realty combining with local government to create white flight and ghettos to the increase of hate groups right now….and look how they have survived through all of that . We could learn a lot from them, especialy realising that our intuition and reaction time and sub concience are really in charge of what we do….black Americans are really good at following their intuition , good at reaction time, and improvising creativly to get through life
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@Ace
impulsiveness has little to do with IQ? You’re correct, they don’t. These two are both independent traits that have been determined by sociologists. Compared to whites, blacks have lower IQ and are more impulsive.
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I mean, why not emulate them ?
Heck, we have been doing it anyway, quiet is kept
You know that old banjo, from good old boy country picken? Its an African instrument….
You know that old rock and roll you love ( I hate it)? its a white abheration of black American music….
You know the way Emenem raps ? He got it from black Americans
You know that style Frank Sinatra sang with Basie? He emulated Louis Armstong
Lets just quit messing around and emulate our black American colleagues, we might learn something
My bad sçelling is just going to take our “g” to a new low
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@Don Sun 1 Apr 2012 at 05:12:07
“Heritability” is nothing more than similar scores from one generation to the next.
Gee, Don, if the blacks are getting the same IQ scores each generation, wouldn’t that be evidence that IQ may be inherited??
By the way, on the issue of IQ, “genetic” refers to the effects of our genes. “Heritable” includes genetic effects, development effects in the womb and early childhood, and environmental effects up to the age of 5 to 10. This is the age where a person’s ultimate adult IQ is established and remains largely unchanged through adulthood. I’ve seen the term “heritable” used differently, so take caution on its meanin.
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@Sam Sun 1 Apr 2012 at 07:47:44
Sam, you’re an anti-American foreign blowhard. Our schools have been dumbed down to accomodate blacks and other minorities, as well as to force everyone to be “equal’. Not everyone has the brains to complete even high school, even some whites. So they dumb it down, so a high proportion can pass. What some of these kids have actually learned is suspicious.
You make claims from “tests” which have been done how? </i? Go educate yourself before you go making claims. There is information on IQ test all over the blog. Since it is clear from our postings that you are an ultraliberal, you and your ilk just don't want to accept it.
the right wing policies have bee implemented since the Reagan days You know nothing of the USA, shut up!!
Thank god the science has been able to show, finally, beyond any doubt that there is only one human race on this planet. Sam, you just babble anything that comes to your head. There are innumerous studies that show racial differences.
I don’t know about Finland, but Sweden has been allowing Muslims and Africans into the country, with some troubling results. They don’t assimilate well.
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BR
I thought these new discoveries have made the old, really old IQ test, bell curve, stuff of my time, not as relevant for now
You thought wrong. IQ tests are still the best predictor of success. That’s why schools require the SAT. It’s nothing but a thinly disguised IQ test. No matter how you try to massage the definition of intelligence to include art, music and whatnot, dumb is still dumb.
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@B. R.
Bliff, absolutly on so many levals , I have been inspired by black Americans.
Great, I just wanted to know. I have known a few whites myself who admired black culture. Just remember, black America operates within a context of white America that allows black America to succeed. Also, thank the whites of ages past who brought black slaves over here, so their descendents could have the best life of any Negroid people.
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Yes, I think we white people ought to emulate our colleagues, out in the open instead of always hiding it and pretending we arnt.
Some of us whites are really slick and know how to emulate our black American colleagues and make a lot of money….
How about that Al Joleson ? How about all those big bands that just put Louis Armstrong licks to horn arrangements ? And they went out and made more money than Fletcher Henderson and Duke Ellington.How about Elvis the pelvis, he definitly made a whole lot of money emulating his black American colleagues down there in Memphis or where ever he is from….
Lets quit pretending and hiding about it and based on the new studies that show that our intuitive brain is motivating us much more than the thinking brain that the IQ tests are addressing, lets start admiring and emulating our black American colleagies who are more in touch with their intuition than we stiff whites are
I definitly admire and emulate my black American colleagues and have learned a lot from them
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@B.R. Sun 1 Apr 2012 at 12:09:08
Doesnt this make all the IQ tests, the bell curve concepts , the whole bit , a relic that cant even be considered to judge real intelligence?
No, it isn’t. IQ can also be described as cognitive intelligence,which is similar to the everyday concept of intelligence, a “smart” person. More precisely, it’s teh kind of intelligence needed in a modern society, sort of like, but not limited to, book smarts. The kids who did good in school probably had a high IQ.
Dont we have to now consider intuition, improvisation, how we feel intuitivly ,how we react, as a serious part of intelligence also
These are skills, but they are not necessarily IQ. Musical ability has a 0.30 correlation with IQ, which means that this is a weak relationship; good musicians only roughly also have a good IQ.
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“Also, thank the whites of ages past who brought black slaves over here, so their descendents could have the best life of any Negroid people.”
LOL!!! Are we supposed to be thanking this pompous braying donkey for slavery? GTFOWTBS 😛 This mans arrogance and ignorance knows no bounds.
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Bliff stated:
I don’t know where to begin.
Wow!
Whites on this blog behold; the reason why you are the subject of eternal suspicion, scorn, hatred, anger, depression, separation from people of colour.
The reason why, despite all you say, do, emulate, we don’t trust you.
The reason why white America is one of the most hated and mocked groups in the world.
And finally, the reason why countless coloureds, like myself, have given up all hope of reconciliation.
Thank Bliff, Randy, Doug, Destruction, and many others that taint your race.
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comment in moderation…
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@don Sun 1 Apr 2012 at 13:38:27
Environment is another part of the story. Particularly the nutrition provided to infants in the first 2 years of their life.
Environment is definitely another part of the story. In the USA, with fortified food products, and overweight kids, nutrition is NOT part of the story.
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@ Darq
I’m constantly awed at the level of white hatred.
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@DarqBeauty
Are we supposed to be thanking this pompous braying donkey for slavery? I didnt’ mean you should thank me personally. You should be mature enough to understand that slavery is 150 years in the past. YOU may be black, but YOU never experienced it. So you have nothing to complain about slavery, DarqBeauty. YOU need to mature and understand that YOU should be thankful for being in the USA where black culture has THRIVED. So, grow up, quit being a victim, quit trying to pimp money or advantages off of your ancestors, who truly suffered. Oh, yes and kiss a white man, why don’t ya.
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Not quite that simple. This specific topic is one that I researched a few years back and I managed to find a copy of the best argument against this. Luckily, it was still on the Internet. Here is a link:
Click to access lieberman-on-rushton.pdf
Basically, it boils down to flawed methodology.
Enjoy.
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@BR
I definitly admire and emulate my black American colleagues and have learned a lot from them
Oh, yeah? Do you steal hubcaps too?
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@DB
LOL!!! Are we supposed to be thanking this pompous braying donkey for slavery?
If you can find a better deal somewhere else then have at it. Your services are no longer required. haha
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(http://youtu.be/FRGvC44GpsY)
No wonder Herneith does nothing but clown you. How can anyone take you seriously? You play the buffoon too well! 🙂
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@ Darq
Bliff is cracking slowly like Doug.
Ignore him.
His main purpose here is amusement.
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Our services were required for over 400 years. We want a severance package…oh wait. We weren’t on the payroll. European Americans sure had lazy ancestors! Seems like you guys had an aversion to hard work. And for treating people as human beings. Your opinion means less to me than the dirt that occupies the space in between my shoes tread. 🙂
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@truthbetold
They are obviously unhinged. And who listens to the ravings of a madman? No one! LOL @ Coming here to converse with and seek the opinion of people you consider intellectually inferior. And they are the supreme intelligence, eh? 😉
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@ Demerra Sun 1 Apr 2012 at 14:35:35
First of all, if you directing this toward me, I couldn’t tell.
Until they can respond on an individual level with unequivocal and irrefutable proof that they share the same genetics as the individuals used in these studies
IQ is a statistical concept. If you took 1000 people, you would see a trend – the higher IQ people would be smarter and do better in life than the others.
I don’t see what my personal IQ has to do with any of my discussions.
I don’t know what you do for a living, but let’s say you stuided mentally challenged people. You mean you couldn’t study them, and write about them, without you sharing some of their characteristics?? That’s what it sounds like you’re saying.
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@DarqBeauty
They are obviously unhinged. And who listens to the ravings of a madman?. Apparently, you, and quite often I may add.
Sorry about the “wed” joke, I really just wanted to show Herneith the Lame how to construct a real joke, though I’m sure nobody here will give me any credit. **Sniffle, sniffle**
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DB
Coming here to converse with and seek the opinion of people you consider intellectually inferior. And they are the supreme intelligence, eh?
If I limited my conversation to those whom I considered my equal I’d have to take a vow of silence. Speaking of supreme intelligence. Maybe I should pray? Then I would be talking to my equal.
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@ destructure
Cheaper than free? I don’t think so. Don’t you ever get tired of showing us your ass? It’s a full moon every time you open your mouth. 😛
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“Maybe I should pray? Then I would be talking to my equal.”
LOL! That actually made me laugh out loud! Thanks for the cheap laugh. Well, it was EXTRA cheap since it was at your EXPENSE.
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DB
What makes you think it was free? I believe the position came with room and board.
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Bliff, if Herneith wanted to know how to construct a proper joke, she should pray and ask for enlightenment as to how God formed you. 🙂
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@ destructure
And a free ride over here on the lovely cruise ships your people provided. Gee, thanks Mister!
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DB
Your welcome.
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@B.R. Mon 2 Apr 2012 at 02:31:20
Look, Departure, Biff, Doug….I know we white guys, what with the new scientific discoveries , are risking losing our second place status ,
This absolutely NOTHING to do with what I think or believe about issues on this blog.
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This blog needs a chat room.
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This blog needs pesticide. 😛
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@DQ
Don’t you ever get tired of showing us your ass? It’s a full moon every time you open your mouth.
LMAO!!!! That is great!!! YOU should be instructing Herneith how to be funny, not me.
bliff out for the night.
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That’s not the real issue though, is it? She may not have experienced slavery, but she sure as heck has felt it’s influence on her life. Remember, in conversation, Whites bring up slavery just as much as Blacks. This is because many Whites falsely believe this is the real issue at hand, when the real issue is the racism that exists today due to the European introduction of slavery to the Americas.
If White Americans just freed the slaves and then treated the former slaves and their descendants as equals, then you would have a point. But that isn’t what happened. Not by a long shot.
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This blog needs a chorus of “Swing low, sweet chariot…”
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@destructure:
“First, the US school system is dominated by the left not the right.”
No it is not. You are at it again.
“Second, the mean score of Americans with European ancestry is 524, compared to 506 in Europe, when first and second generation immigrants are excluded.”
I see. Only the “pure white americans” score well.
“And, fourth, Finland scores well on the PISA there aren’t as many immigrants dragging down the national average.”
Noup. Those immigrants who are in schools manage just like others if they manage the language.
“You must be one of the immigrants because you’re as dumb as a box of rocks.”
Noup again. I am pure finn, much more pure white man you’ll ever be. I scored on the top third at my high school exams and I also am academically educated.
Sorry that your republican masters have screwed you and the rest of the country since the days of Nixon and that your school system is down the tubes. I think it is a great sin.
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My friend’s grandfather was Finnish and was an anti-aircraft gunner around the Winter War era. She told me that when Hitler visited Finland, her grandfather accidentally targeted Hitler’s place and was stopped just short from blowing it out of the sky.
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Place = plane, obviously. =}
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sam
No it is not. You are at it again.
Yeah, it is. The public school system is dominated by the NEA which is a far left teacher’s union.
I see. Only the “pure white americans” score well.
Not true. Hindus and East Asians score better than Americans of European descent. However, nearly every population scores better than the country’s their families originated.
Noup. Those immigrants who are in schools manage just like others if they manage the language.
First and second generation immigrant students in Finland score 50 points below native Finns. On PISA, 50 points is a lot. To give you a comparison, 50 points is larger than the difference between Sweden and Turkey.
Noup again. I am pure finn, much more pure white man you’ll ever be. I scored on the top third at my high school exams and I also am academically educated.
That only goes to show that average is dumb regardless of what population we’re talking about. I’ve never scored lowered than 99 percentile on any standardized test.
Sorry that your republican masters have screwed you and the rest of the country since the days of Nixon and that your school system is down the tubes.
Wrong again. I despise republicans. I just dislike democrats more.
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@someguy:
Interesting. Could be true story though Hitler visited Finland later. Winter war took place 1939-40. But his grandfather was propably at service during the Continuation war too, just like mine were.
I know that Hitlers plane almost flew directly into one factory chimney when he came over and that his landing was almost disaster. You can see the burning of one wheel when the plane is on that tarmac in some old documentary clips.
Mannerheim did not like too much of Hitler. He wrote that mr Hitler is a beer hall hooligan and only a corporal, where as he was a baron and was once a cavalry commander at the Imperial russian army. Two totally different worlds I guess 😀
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“IQ tests are still the best predictor of success”…….Oh ok
(wink wink Bliff, just between you and me,I agreed to do my part for us whites to not lose our second place status . But, I gotta tell ya ,its interesting how us whites dragged our black American colleagues over here, tried to break their spirit, seperated families, after the Civil War the carpetbaggers left the Klan to terrorise along with lynch mobs and jim crow, after our local governments in the North got together with realty companies to create white flight and ghettos with horrible schools ,our good old boy network of hiring for jobs and loans, we put about every obsticle you can to hold a person back, yet, our black American colleagues beat the system.Their strength, persaverance , soul, humanity have shined through and you know what, a long time ago, I started admiring that..it impressed me.I dont know , it seems the people that just gave our country the worst decline since I ever remembered, most of them are ivy league college educated , who probably did marvelously on IQ tests)
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So rocket scientests score higher than music geniuses on IQ tests
Could it be that IQ tests just dont cover what is really incredible about music genius ? I bet any new tests developed based on the new scientific discoveries would bring those qualities to the forfront.These bell curve , IQ tests are relics of the past…wake up
You know, I left collage after I wrecked my ankle playing college ball ( no threat to the NBA I asure you) a long time ago. And in real life out here, who scored higher on the IQ test is no indication of who is really “smarter” out here in the world. The rules of the market place and street , and who really gets ahead, seem to leave any tests way behind and is much more based on cliques, hustling ability, who you know, how much inheritance you have to invest in your business,the good old boy network, anything but how high you scored on your IQ test
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BR
Could it be that IQ tests just dont cover what is really incredible about music genius ?
I’m sure that’s true. Then again, outside of music being a “music genius” doesn’t mean very much.
The rules of the market place and street , and who really gets ahead, seem to leave any tests way behind and is much more based on cliques, hustling ability, who you know, how much inheritance you have to invest in your business,the good old boy network, anything but how high you scored on your IQ test
I’m sure those things help. But if someone has all those and brains, too, then they’re still probably going to be more successful. Granted, there’s no guarantee someone with an IQ of 105 will be more successful than someone with an IQ of 100. But, who would you think is going to be more successful: someone with an IQ of 90 or someone with an IQ of 110?
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@BR
Could it be that IQ tests just dont cover what is really incredible about music genius ?
You’re right. Another way to think about it is that musical ability does not have much to do with IQ.
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@BR
cliques, hustling ability, who you know, how much inheritance
You have to think about this much more deeply than you are.
“hustling ability” may be a function of more than 1 talent. IQ may very well be one. The smarter you are, the better hustler you probably are.
People with high IQ are more likely to have money in the first place. Their high IQ also means they are smart enough to save their money, not blow it away. Therefore, high IQ parents have the money and pass it on to their high IQ children, who in turn, have high IQ’s partially inherited from their parents, and partially because high IQ parents provide an environment for their kids’ IQs to develop.
Cliques – “birds of a feather flock together”. People are compatible partially due to their IQs; high IQ people hang out with high IQ people. Therefore, high IQ financial people are natural friends, just like low IQ ghetto thugs hang together. So, cliques just don’t happen, or assigned.
None of these things just “happen”. IQ is an important factor in all of these. OF course, IQ works statisticall; it is not deterministic. The effects of IQ can be seen if you look at 1000 people. Those with higher IQ with do better in a Western society where IQ is important, and is increasingly so (one of the tenets of the Bell Curve).
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@B.R.
how us whites dragged our black American colleagues over here No, not “us whites”, unless you’re 400 yrs old. It was whites, but it wasn’t “us”. Blacks love to take advantage of this. It was “blacks and whites” then, not “blacks and whites” now. Perhaps with your admiration of black culture, you’ve learned Black Time, the black concept of time in which they can go back in time to any time period and complain they (the present day blacks) were mistreated by whites from any time period…and they are still hurting, so we must send money.
after the Civil War the carpetbaggers left the Klan to terrorise along with lynch mobs and jim crow. Yep, after the Civil War the whites really didn’t want blacks around. Most whites were repulsed by slavery, but didn’t want to live with blacks, because of the DIFFERENCES BETWEEN BLACKS AND WHITES. Most whites wanted to ship blacks back to Africa, which was prohibitively expensive. So the country moved on with bad relations between blacks and whites.
after our local governments in the North got together with realty companies to create white flight Just another example of how whites did not want to live around blacks. Too many differences, neighborhoods and schools go downhill when too many blacks are around. Look around, B.R., it’s still happening today.
and ghettos with horrible schools No, the blacks created their own ghettos and couldn’t support good schools. Whites have to constantly pitch in to save blacks from themselves.
our good old boy network of hiring for jobs and loanswe put about every obsticle you can to hold a person back, Many whites do not want to hire blacks, because they are not impressed with their job skills or work ethics. Unfortunately, Black Privilege (antidiscrimination laws) forces private employers to hire blacks.
yet, our black American colleagues beat the system.Their strength, persaverance , soul, humanity have shined through It would be best if we allowed ourselves to self-segregate. People should be allowed to live where ever (I don’t support govt enforced segregation like in the South), but we need to stop pushing integration. Allow it to happen if it does, but integration should not be favored or pushed by the govt.
it seems the people that just gave our country the worst decline since I ever remembered, most of them are ivy league college educated , who probably did marvelously on IQ tests) NOT true. The government caused the housing crisis in its political quest to force Affordable Housing. See Sowell’s “The Housing Boom and Bust” for an easy accessible and definitive account of the govt’s role in the housing crisis.
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@Someguy
She may not have experienced slavery, but she sure as heck has felt it’s influence on her life. No, no one alive today has experienced slavery. It’s hard to say any effects remain today from slavery. What IS still existent, is the DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BLACKS AND WHITES. This DQ experiences.
Remember, in conversation, Whites bring up slavery just as much as Blacks. I highly doubt this is true in general. I know few whites who just start talking about slavery as if it is a common topic. Almost always, slavery is brought up in the black media when they’re doing their Race-Baiting, the main activity of the Black Community. Then whites may get drawn into talking about slavery. But almost never do we talk about it right off the top of our head.
Blacks, however, are super-obsessed with racial topics, even slavery. I see blacks bring up slavery in many articles, TV discussions, and radio shows. They talk like slavery just ended last year.
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@destructure, sam
“First, the US school system is dominated by the left not the right.” Destructure is correct, Sam. If you don’t know that the education system and the teachers’ union, the NEA, is dominated by the left, then you DON’T know anything about America. Maybe you don’t understand this, Sam, because the left is probably everywhere in Finland and it just seems normal to you.
“Sorry that your republican masters have screwed you and the rest of the country since the days of Nixon and that your school system is down the tubes.” Again, you demonstrate you know nothing about America. Since the 1960s the Democrats AND the Republicans are destroying America – the Democrats do it because they don’t know better; the Republicans know better, but do it anyways because they’re politicians.
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Then why are you still here?
Guess you haven’t read Black Rednecks, White Liberals. Oh, the irony. A
real racistrace realist quoting Sowell. Oh, and never mind those banks and their CDOs. That’s the government again, yeah. It’s funny no one says the same thing about the G.I. Bill.LikeLike
@satanforce
race realist quoting Sowell Yeah, because I can understand economics and quality when I read it. Blacks prefer to be losers, so they reject people like Sowell.
never mind those banks and their CDOs. Obviously, you know nothing about the banking crisis. The Clinton admin started leaning heavy on banks to give out housing loans to the black community and other “disadvantaged” communities. The banks were not allowed to open branches, had to show they had certain number of loans to minorities, were sued with penalties, if they did not expand loans to minorities. The banks made these loans, at higher subprime rates to those who didn’t really qualify for a loan, and then these loans to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
Franklin Raines’ led FA &FM just kept up buying up all these loans, and reselling them as govt-backed securities, without regard to how much risky loans they were putting out into the market. Wall Street firms bought up the securities, because, hey, the govt is effectively guaranteeing them.
Wall Street did what they always do, repackage them intoCDOs and other derivatives, making fees in the process. Hey, If the govt is basically going to throw money out there, is Wall Street not going to pick it up??
From there, the bubble just kept growing, and everybody starting getting in, bidding up housing prices trying to make a buck.
All this could have been prevented if the govt did not force the banks to start making bad loans. If traditional lending standards were maintained, then there would have been no bubble. But no, the govt forced its political goals of Affordable Housing to get votes !!
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@Bulanik
How many times you have said, on this blog, that your white friends unfailingly remind you that you’re black when you are busy, like, being a person and ruminating on all manner of subjects that seize your intellectual attention?
I have absolutely no idea what you are saying here. Please reword if you desire a reply.
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The observer changes the properties of the observed. This is not merely true in terms of quantum mechanics. People excrete their own realities like fecal soft serve.
Twice, maybe? I don’t understand your question. Are you being rhetorical?
That post shows a complete disconnect between the racial realities of Blacks and Whites in America. For you to even post that shows me the lack of empathy and general knowledge you have about Black people. I may not know everything about White people, but by the way you sound, you know next to nothing about Black people. Except of course, what others have placed inside your mind to influence you.
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I reread this a couple of times to make sure I understood what you are implying.
So, according to you, the reasons for the turmoil between Black people and White people in American are the biological differences and probably nothing else??
The legacy of slavery, the oppression of the 20th century, the terrorism that happened post slavery, the denial of decent housing in many areas when the suburbs began to pop up, the suspicion, scorn and hate against Black in the 21st century, all this, and a hell of a lot more, has little or nothing to do with the mental, emotional and cultural state of Blacks today??
Absurd, man. That is a boldly absurd assumption on your part. I doubt even sociologists in your camp would say something like that.
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@SomeGuy
That post shows a complete disconnect between the racial realities of Blacks and Whites in America
Having had many conversations with Bulanik here on this forum, I feel confident enough to say that I think you have misunderstood this comment. My take on this, and I guess only Bulanik herself can clarify this, seems that she is saying that the constant reminder about being ‘black’ and differences regarding ‘race’ are things that are not continually being brought up by BP but certain types of WP.
It is they who find these so called ‘differences’ hard to reconcile and often are the last to acknowledge any similarities simply because it is preferential for some to use the ‘differences’ as an excuse to continue and perpetuate ‘myths’ and ‘stereotypes’ that would be difficult to do if they bothered to speak to PoC on a level.
This is my interpretation of the statement.
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Bliff and Destructure…your answers to me are a virtual train wreck
Nope, the IQ tests are ancient and not relevant any more..you cant handle the new studies….its the old antiquated tests that arnt good enough to include real inteligence that has a lot more properties than those antiquated tests allowed for…its a fact…you know, the new studies
genius is genius, you could be a horrible individual and still be a genius, many well balanced people arnt geniuses and many screwed up people are…..if you dont want to equate high music skills as not intelligent (Im talking a lot more than a few people), be my guest, I just dont agree with you , and the new studies dont agree with you
“pass down to their high IQ kids…” you actualy believe that ? The truth is someone with high IQ makes the money and the kids destroy it after they die
If you beleive it was only housing loans that brought on the crisis, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I would like to sell you…
Im so happy my parents made the desician to move to an integrated neighborhood. The neighborhood didnt go down (even after my arrival ). Your depiction is cartoonish and blatenly racist. Living in an integrated neighborhood was a huge blessing in my life , I totaly laugh at your notions that people want to live seperatly…I dont
Id be happy to address each of your points but Im busy now and those were some really weak answers
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@ Demerera
If that’s true, then I detract my statement.
I find it very difficult to interpret statements by some people, when I don’t exactly know the context in which the statement is made. Some people use sarcasm, while others are rhetorical. Not everyone has the same writing style.
Personally, I prefer to have a face to face discussion, where I can look into an individual’s eyes. This helps me connect to them and their intentions and meaning.
Such is the limitation of text communication.
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.
An excerpt from Sowell’s book.
Sowell doesn’t let special interests off the hook, and neither should you. Remember, Sowell does praise the Canadian government for working to reduce risk in their real estate industry.
Ah. The old Homo economicus. I’m not into the whole Chicago School stuff (I’m a Schumpeterian/ =evolutionary economist myself), but behaviorial economics is kinda beating the leaving daylights out of Mr. Economicus.
Perhaps if the banks didn’t redline “disadvantaged groups” and allow the market to self-organize itself (you know, like Hayek says should happen) they wouldn’t have had to deal with crusaderswith grand visions for cosmic justice. Just saying.
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I meant to say ” if you dont want to equate high musical skills as intelligent”
I mean seriously, Bliff , that was the weakest after the Civil War analysis that I have ever seen in my life..you have to be kidding, right? That was you doing comedy , right? an snl skit thing, trying to keep up with Herneath, which you cant…..she is smarter than you
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You are on , Satanforce, good one
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@satanforce
Meanwhile, various special interests found ways to benefit themselves from all this Yep, very true and a good illustration of one of the first laws of society:
EVERYBODY is greedy and is always looking out for No. 1. Not just bankers or rich people, but everybody.
Supporters of such policies and programs easily drowned out the voices of those economists Many people tried to voice concern, but money was being made and nobody would think of stoping the circus. Barney Frank in particular, kept saying there was no problem, as well as other Democrats. There were Republicans, too, that weren’t concerned enough. GW Bush acted like he didn’t know what was going on with the housing bubble.
Sowell doesn’t let special interests off the hook, and neither should you. Like I said, if the government is irresponsible enough to set this in motion and bascially beg to give Wall Street the business, is it realistic to think that any profit-maximizing firm will say no? The main culprit is the govt with their political interference in the housing market – if they didn’t do it, there would have been no housing bubble. I don’t think the govt can regulate the market any better, and usually worse than, the free market.
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By the way , Bliff, you have no idea of the real financial crisis. The housing loans was just the tip that pushed it over, it had decayed so much by then that those toxic loans just colapsed. And there were huge comercials trying to pcych people into get the loans.
You forget, under Clinton, there was unprecedented properity. I dont beleive it would have happened under him. Bush got us in the Iraq war, and , spent unbeleivible amounts of money.
On top of that, something you dont seem to know or acknowledge, when Bush came in, the dollar started a slow but steady huge decent that it has never recoverd from, becuase of having to print up money to cover the war expenses. Borrowing from China was reckless, if they call in their loans, we are going to tank ..No No absolutly not, poor people trying to buy homes did not cause the financial crisis we are in
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BR
You forget, under Clinton, there was unprecedented properity. I dont beleive it would have happened under him. Bush got us in the Iraq war, and , spent unbeleivible amounts of money.
The economic growth started under Reagan. Clinton didn’t really do anything to help or hurt it. I’m no fan of Bush. I was opposed to the wars and most of his spending. But the president isn’t a dictator. Congress has an awful lot to say about it, too. And congress has more incentive to spend money than the president. So don’t just look at who was president. Look at who controlled congress as well. Spending has never been higher than today under Obama and the Democrats. The national debt has gone from 10 Trillion to 15 trillion in only 3 years.
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BR
The housing loans was just the tip that pushed it over, it had decayed so much by then that those toxic loans just colapsed. And there were huge comercials trying to pcych people into get the loans.
The cause of the financial crisis is very simple. People took out loans they couldn’t afford. And then they stopped paying their mortgages. It’s just that simple.
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@ Bliff (legacy and effects of slavery) Gotta run, so this is not complete. But as I said before, the effects of slavery are dynamic and complicated and can not be summed up by commenting on a blog.
Just like there is a social contract btw government and its’ citizens (give up a little personal freedom for protection of self and property, and other goodies) there is a racial contract as well. Mills (1997) racial contract theory makes two claims: 1) White supremacy has been a constant globally and locally for many years, and 2) Uncompromisingly, white supremacy should be viewed as a political system that can be legitimately theorized as an entity that is founded upon a “contract” exclusively among whites. So, how is this “Racial Contract” manifested? …Here we go:
‘Othering’ and/or dehumanization of Black Americans was a necessary rationale by slaveholders and slave sellers in order to provide a rationale to continue the barbaric and profitable practice of slavery, convict leasing, Jim Crow, sterilization of black women, and unethical medical experimentation to name a few nasty tidbits of American history. As in the past and now, ‘othering’ serves to create tension and anger between the masses who struggle to gain adequate employment, housing, healthcare, and education, thereby effectively distracting people from the real problems: Unfettered Capitalism and false democracy. Othering, as one would expect, has an adverse effect on the psychological development of Blacks. For example, a stage model on the development of Black racial identity (Cross, 1971?) proposes that Blacks are programmed to think in act in ways that devalue their Blackness and idealize Whiteness. This would make sense given that African captives were stripped of their culture (language, dress, hairstyling practices, food, traditions, religion, art, etc) [BTW, this is what separates Blacks from other minorities that are often used to say, “Look at the Jews and Asians moving forward, what’s wrong with blacks?” Bliff, never underestimate people’s need to belong-the affiliation drive is STRONG]. Multiple studies have supported this model, and the most classic work is that of Kenneth and Mamie Clark (1939) doll study, where Black children overwhelmingly attributed positive traits to white dolls and negative traits to black dolls. Of course, when study participants were asked which one is like you, these children chose the Black doll, illustrating the powerful effects of living in an environment that ‘others’ you. The recently replicated Clark & Clark (1939) experiment yielded the same results as the original. We still see this othering on the campaign trail, with utterances of “Let’s take OUR country back…America for real Americans”, which I believe is similar to the original KKK slogan. Helms (date?) is a well-known psychologist who argues that racist attitudes are a central part of being European American and a development of a HEALTHY white identity requires ABANDONMENT of racist ideas. Helms has a stage theory for white identity development that I am sure you can find online. Let us just say it’s extremely rare for whites to not be racist, either they claim color-blindness [“we are all the same” but White culture is superior], retreat [move away, no contact w/ POC], or blame blacks for problems caused by the racial contract (i.e. social and economic policy). According to Helms, the typical White American is racist and lacks the incentive, self-reflection, and humility required to change his/her racist thoughts and beliefs.
The educational system is this country does nothing to include African/Black Americans except for discussions of slavery and its aftermath as a part of America’s mythologized history. A student receives several years of ancient European history, but nothing about ancient African history, which there is plenty to learn contrary to popular belief. Our educational system imbeds and upholds Eurocentric ideals as the only truth while simultaneously negating any other perspective that would actually psychologically, intellectually, and emotionally benefit minorities in general, and in this case Blacks. Education was denied to blacks and harsh punishment ensued for those who didn’t abide by this rule. An influential scholar in his day, and a great influence on my life, is the great Dr. Carter G. Woodson (1933) who penned the now famous “Mis-Education of the Negro”. As I read this text, I was shocked; it was if I were reading what was largely happening in today’s education system. One paragraph I will always remember for its revealing simplicity:
“Starting out after the Civil War, the opponents of freedom and social justice decided to work out a program which would enslave the Negroes’ mind inasmuch as the freedom of the body had to be conceded. It was well understood that If by teaching the history of the white man [he also speaks of religion having a similar effect] could be further assured of his superiority and the Negro could be made to feel that he had ALWAYS been a failure, and that the subjugation of his will to some other race is necessary, then, he would still be a slave”
“If you make a man feel that he is inferior, you do not have to compel him to accept an inferior status, for he will seek it himself. If you make a man think he is justly an outcast, you do not have to order him to the back door. He will go w/o being told; and if there is no back door, his very nature [via principles of learning-operant conditioning] will demand one”
Black students are educated to live in this country in a state of recognized inferiority. While white students’ hopes and dreams are catapulted via narratives of fictive kin, affording these white children at the most basic level to believe great success is possible for them too. I’m too tired to go into the American ‘bootstrap’ myth, but I’m sure you understand how this thinking allows people to subscribe to the belief of Black inferiority, all the while gleefully ignoring the real effects of economic and social policies. Dilapidated schools, lead paint poisoning, inadequate pre-natal care owing to poor medical access (BTW, even if all factors are equivalent to middle-class white women, black women still receive substandard medical care), food deserts, and so many other factors contribute to low-performing students (These problems are not new problems, they have been ruining and shortening lives since slavery). However, teachers are human and enter the field with their own unchecked biases, such that, black boys receive harsher punishments in comparison to all other ‘races’ for the same infractions. Children of color are also more likely to be deemed “special needs” simply owing to common childhood behavioral problems, are more likely to be placed on psychotropic drugs, or institutionalized (Not talking about autism spectrum disorders..just speaking about kids being kids- I know b/c I’ve worked in disenfranchised schools and have read much research concerning the matter). Ghandi once said, “Poverty is the greatest act of violence”, and considering the detrimental generational effect poverty has had on Blacks and many other populations around the world, I would agree completely with his statement.
For Blacks who are not low-income or below the poverty line, piss-poor education and internalized racism is still an issue. Not sure if you’ve ever heard of the concept of stereotype threat (a fear that one will confirm the negative stereotype of a group to which one belongs in an area where the individual excels), but we see this with Black as well as other minority groups. Here’s an example from Claude Steele’s study on the matter: African American students performed equally as well as White students on a test that both groups were led to believe was simply just very difficult test, however, when Black students were led to believe that the test measured differences in intelligence btw Blacks and Whites, the African American students scores dropped significantly. This should tell you something about the real psychological effects of living in a racist society, mainly that it changes one’s internal dialogue from I can to I cannot or worse, I should not.
I need to get my miles in, so, let me just leave you with this for now:
Amos Wilson (1998) suggests that the educational and economic destinies of African Americans are intricately associated with the biased institutions erected in a society that is engulfed with a racist attitude towards non-White people. In the following passage, Wilson (1998) provides a critical perspective regarding the American social system:
It is of utmost importance to keep in mind that an economic system is fundamentally a social system, a system of social relations. An economic system cannot exist prior to or apart from a system of social relations. The products, goods, and services which characterize a social system, their allocation, distribution, use, ownership, symbolic value, and associations with social status power and privilege, are socially determined and ultimately derive from the nature of social relations which define that system. When the members of a society accept the social relations which characterize its economic system, they become subject to the power differentials and arrangements those relations create and sustain. These socially created and sustained power differentials and arrangements tend over time (and due to concerted propaganda and other efforts put forth by those who benefit most from the system) to appear to the members of that society to be autonomous and “natural.” (pp. 307-308)
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“Destructure
The cause of the financial crisis is very simple. People took out loans they couldn’t afford. And then they stopped paying their mortgages. It’s just that simple.”
Funny enough, I was counting on just that scenerio back in 2004-2006, so that I could start buying the foreclosures ( I invest as a hobby), I was definitely giddy at the extent in which the banks overextended themselves but saddened that so many working-class and midde-class people fell for the game.
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Studies of twins separated at birth
Conjoined twins?
Sam, you’re an anti-American foreign blowhard.
You are an American blowhard, what of it? Next!!!
Also, thank the whites of ages past who brought black slaves over here, so their descendents could have the best life of any Negroid people.
How was that quart of liquor you had for lunch?
And who listens to the ravings of a madman?
I do. Bliff’s are particularly comical!
I don’t see what my personal IQ has to do with any of my discussions.
It means everything if you continuously harp on who is dumber than who. For example, my IQ is 10,000. Do you read me writing as to who is dumb? Yours appears to be 40, henceforth and hitherto, you must be a jacka++ of the first order. It is a wonder you can function at all. However, copious amounts of liquor does that to a man. Sober up!
EVERYBODY is greedy and is always looking out for No. 1. Not just bankers or rich people, but everybody.
I can see it now; ‘The Ramblings of a Madman(Or Where the Heck am I?), by Bliff B. Blowhard.
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“Bliff” All this could have been prevented if the govt did not force the banks to start making bad loans. If traditional lending standards were maintained, then there would have been no bubble. But no, the govt forced its political goals of Affordable Housing to get votes !!”
Linda says,
You are somewhat on the right track as far as investors feeling secure about buying government backed loans (FHA) but government back loans did not make up the majority of the CDO’s that investment banks bought and sold on Wallstreet.
FHA loans were not the loans that helped to super-size the housing bubble and crash Wallstreet financial sector—non-conforming subprime loans were the offenders and they were made (originated) at the local level and being handed out like candy, first to investors like me, then to the general public.
The real estate bubble is the fault of creative loan instruments generated and propagated by supposed independent property appraisers, greedy County property tax collectors, Federal Reserve and SEC who were asleep at the wheel, and greedy banks, and of course, an ignorant general public who did not speak up to say ” I really don’t know what you mean when you say my loan is LIBOR” but they signed on the dotted line anyway.
I would put my properties back on market and within 1-3 months, they sold at an appraised value 5-12% above my original purchase price…(so I would earn minimum $10,000 on a $200,000 newly acquired property that I sold within 1-3 month)–that kind of investment was unheard of…it was obscene!) but flipping property was the trend and the banks were counting on that…
with the Feds keeping the prime index so low (because Alan Greenspan didn’t want to upset the hyper-inflated apple cart) the banks were practically throwing loans to anyone with a job…oh, oh, then mass job Layoffs began.
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Wallstreet going under was their own dam fault.
Subprime loans were made by correspondent lenders to almost anyone who was willing to buy down points on either conforming or non-conforming loans, mind you, most people probably didn’t even know the were buying down points to get low or decent interest rates.
These loans would be sold at closing to traditional or investment banks, such as IndyMac, (who eventually jumped into the subprime market, and so did other traditional banks, BOA bought Countrywide)
These banks were able to “sell” these subprime loans to other investor groups and investment banks, who in turn, packaged and sold these loans (CDO’s) to bigger Wallstreet banks (think Bear Stearns), who turned around and sold them..and the beat goes on….and Wall Street crashed (again)
Basically, Wallstreet got into a game that started at the low level of the totem pole, a game in which they did not understand or rather, didn’t properly estimate the risks, and had no business being involved in the first place…they’ve learned from their mistakes though and REIT’s are on the rise.
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Tell him about it , Linda…
And when Reagan came in, everything became more expensive, it was horrible, it was nothing like with Clinton, when there was true properity because the computor revolution took off ( then crashed) and it represented a tremendous new money coming in
Ive also lived in a country when it had deep deep disvalorisation of the money, and it is not pretty and a sign of weakness. And since Bush took office, the dollar started dropping regularly. Before Bush, the dollar was 3.50 to 1 real in Brazil and with Bush, it got as low as 1.60. The money doesnt have to be the strongest , but it cant just drop, and drop and not go up…I knew something bad was going on in the US economy and sure enough, it crashed. I dont beleive it was just the real estate crisis, that was just one thing that hit hard
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“BR
And since Bush took office, the dollar started dropping regularly. Before Bush, the dollar was 3.50 to 1 real in Brazil and with Bush, it got as low as 1.60.”
Funny enough, the US dollar fell also when Bush #1 (Daddy George Bush) came into to power, but so many factors went into the decline of US economy, deregulation in the 80’s sure didn’t help.
Clinton put a band-aide on it but globalization, to me, hurt the US in the long run. Offshoring may have helped the corporate bottom lines but it destroyed the lower middle class and 2 back-to-back bubbles sure didn’t help much.
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@Linda
I think we’re are basically in agreement about the housing crisis. Once it got going, everybody jumped into the bubble and the money grab was on. However, I must emphasize, the govt really kicked it off, allowing lending standards to deteroriate the the bubble to start. The govt should not have allowed to bubble to start at all. Once there is big money out there, everybody, including you, jumped in.
The Frank-Dodd bill was supposed to correct the problems. But all it really seems to do is create some more regulatory agencies to oversee the market. the regulators did nothing the first time; that’s probably what they’ll do the next time. All we need to do is go back to the traditional lending standards we have had, and that will prevent any bubble by making sure only people who can afford houses can buy them.
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I agree , Linda, it was a lot of factors
For me, the dollar getting weaker was not as much a cause but a symton that something was wrong
And I watched this steady decline over Bush’s 8 years ,it definity was bad and I kept telling people that something is wrong
Thanks for that notice about Bush Sr, I wasnt out of the country then so I didnt know about international cambios
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….a lot of people will say “oh its good for exports”, but that is a weak position
Ive seen up close what a weak currancy that only goes down can do.
I would tell people “buckle your seat belts because its going to be a rough roller coaster ride..” and it sure was and is
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I’m having a Herneith moment here, but this is a message to all the race realist racists on here:
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etBoJJ0GZI8)
LOL!
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@brothawolf
XD On a side note: I love Sylvester. Tweety just needs to let nature take its course ><.
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“Bliff,
However, I must emphasize, the govt really kicked it off, allowing lending standards to deteroriate the the bubble to start. The govt should not have allowed to bubble to start at all. Once there is big money out there, everybody, including you, jumped in.”
I’m an investor, I’ve been in since I’ve arrived in this country, so I jumped in way before the general public and Wallstreet, and seen the “before and after” the bubble…
You and I disagree on the your belief that the “average joe” bought houses they could not afford because the government allowed it by lowering lending standards to accomodate “Affordable Housing”…this belief is not accurate.
The guidelines for conforming, traditional loans (such as fixed 30 yr) were never altered, so these lending standards never lowered or deteriorated..this is the type of mortgage loan that government traditionally likes to back with their “Affordable Housing” policies and these types of loans were not the problem…
What the SEC / Fed’s failed to regulate were “subprime” loans (a niche market) that created new types of Variable loans (non-traditional non-fixed interest rate loans)
….these type of loans helped to drive the real estate market in the beginning of inflated housing market…underwriters were looking away because the liquid asset requirements were being met (ex. showing a bank account with $40,000 in cash).
unfortunately for general public, these variable loans were soon modified, offered and pushed by almost every bank at the time because the SEC was not paying attention to the shady paperwork that was pushed through underwriting by crooked mortgage brokers….banks were running after joe/jane public like crazed Elvis fans…and the government came late to the party.
…foreclosures were the result of massive layoffs and these variable interest rates adjusting upwards practically at the same time.
so in plain language, the government was guilty for not paying attention to the rise of the subprime banks…and Greenspan / Bernake would still be sleeping if Wallstreet banks hadn’t gone crying like babies for a handout after being burned by the subprime market.
I wish Dodd-Frank was the answer but all it did was make the banks stop lending to Everyone…which makes it hard for people like me to sell to joe/jane general public…but I am patient and I can wait for the 10 years it will take for the banks to re-open their purses.
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“BR,
I would tell people “buckle your seat belts because its going to be a rough roller coaster ride..” and it sure was and is”
For sure! you are absolutely right about that.
I was very surprised that those so called “smart” Wallstreet guys didn’t see it coming…it was obvious that white-collar jobs were being affected by offshoring, the party couldn’t last forever.
I am in lock down mode right now….Gold was the new trend but I will stick with what I know and wait it out.
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@all:
Check out the documentary Inside Job. There it is, the whole scam and how it was done. In it one american Nobel winner calls the whole thing a pyramd scheme as it was.
The reason for the sub brime explotion was that the guys giving out loans worked for comission, so more loans out, more money you made. Eventually they offered 100% loans to even homeless jobless people without any guarantees.
After a while these loans were packaged as “financial instruments” and sold to the investment bankers who called them a “neutron loans” that is loans which will explode and leave nothing but the walls up. Investment bankers sold these “financial instruments” back and forth and their prises went up and up untill th bubble bursted.
But no problem, they had guys inside the Bush goverment, former bosses of the same investment banks in the federal treasury, and they fixed the problem: 770 000 000 000 dollars for the those same banks from the tax payers in a hurry. Couple days later the board of one these banks gave out 6 billion dollars for 12 guys as bonuses, and rightly so; they got tens of billions form taxpayers just like that.
As for markets regulating themselves, that is totally absurd. Markets have never ever regulated themselves in any time of history. They were the reason for the Great Depression, they were the sole reason for the crash of 2008 etc. Self regulating markets are fantasy, There is no such thing and has never been, despite the dress ups and rethoric.
After the crashes of 1980’s and 1990’s Wall Street loudly announced how they are regulating themselves bla bla bla and yet, Berie Madoff stole, STOLE, some 50 billion dollars at the same time. And he was just one guy.
After 2008 Meryl Lynch wrote to its biggest clients and stated that they were sorry that there still is a democracy but that they are working hard to get their goal: they believed that durin the next 10 to 15 years there will be plutocarcy, that is monetary rule of the countries and world. They really said it in that exposed letter!
Also one editor of the Wall Street Journal has publicly stated that he is aginst democracy because the interests of the people are against the interests of the big business.
So these were not accidents or natural phenomenas nor loan takers fault. They were done purposely, just like the robbing of EU which is going on right now. These were power plays in which the nations were stolen blind and the democratically elected users of powers were sidelined and people totally side lined. Basically what has happened is Coup d-etat via money.
Don’t take my word for it. Watch the documentary.
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Absolutly great information , Linda and Sam
You are darn real “the average jo” didnt cause the crisis
That is “Faux News” concepts that the average jo did this
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@sam As for markets regulating themselves, that is totally absurd. Markets have never ever regulated themselves in any time of history. They were the reason for the Great Depression, they were the sole reason for the crash of 2008 etc. Self regulating markets are fantasy, There is no such thing and has never been, despite the dress ups and rethoric.
Sam, you have absolutely NO IDEA what you are talking about. Markets left to themselves will inherently regulate themselves through supply & demand and price mechanisms which allocated goods & services. Capitalism ALWAYS works when not interfered with. Govts & politicians love interfere with the market to make it go in the direction, they expect it to go.
You are apparently anit-capitalistic even though you have no understanding of capitalism.
The markets were NOT the cause of the Great Depression. Neither was the 1929 stock market crash the cause. The Great Depression occurred, and more importantly persisted, because of the Fed’s contraction of the money supply in the late 1920s and into the 1930s. The Smoot-Hawley tariffs also contributed to the global spread of the Depression. The New Deal didn’t help much; it has been criticized as hurting. In 1937, with the economy starting to pick up, FDR and Congress panicked at the deficits and raised income taxes which sent the economy back into the Depression. WWII is now generally credited with ending the Depression, but it should have ended much sooner.
“sole reason for the crash of 2008”. Absurd, see my discussion above of the govt interference in the housing market.
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@Linda
You and I disagree on the your belief that the “average joe” bought houses they could not afford because the government allowed it by lowering lending standards to accomodate “Affordable Housing”…this belief is not accurate.
I did not blame this on the “average joe”. I said govt policies kicked it off and encouraged poor lending standards. Then “everybody” got into it, and everybody was abusing the situation once the bubble got started. In fact, I did state that subprime loans to unqualified buyers were a major part of the problem. The govt was leaning on the banks to increase lending to people who they felt were not being reached by the banks, and that included minorities in particular.
You right about the traditional loans; these were still OK. However, banks were making fewer traditional 30 yr fixed loans. The adjustable rate and interest-only loans became a larger share of the loans being offered, especially to unqualified and marginal borrowers, because all they could afford – loans with low payments upfront, with the hope they could refinance later when the value of their homes went up. Of course, once the crash started all the borrowers who were planning on refinancing could not.
Another thing about the crisis – the bad loans were disproportionately located in California, Nevada, and Florida. In these few states, where the price bubble was the worst, most of the bad loans originated and spread into the system.
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Yeah, Bliff, you got some knowledge but you cant see the big picture…
Or , at least tell my how spending in the trillions on wars, but , especialy one that wasnt nescasary , printing up money like there is no tomorow, the dollar dropping like a ton of bricks , the massive outsourcing of jobs , didnt affect the financial crisis also ?
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In the above post, I was talking about markets in general. In the case of the world wide financial markets, I will grant there is the systematic problem of international financial companies taking up exorbitant amounts of risk and overleverage in the volume of their loans and dealings, and then running to the govt for a bailout when the economy turns south.
Again, it is the involvement of govts and politicans that causes the problem. If the companies were allowed to fail, then they would be forced to police themselves. In other words, the markets would regulate themselves. This is probably the only real long term solution to the multiple boom and bust/bailout sequences we have been experiencing.
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sam
As for markets regulating themselves, that is totally absurd. Markets have never ever regulated themselves in any time of history. They were the reason for the Great Depression, they were the sole reason for the crash of 2008 etc. Self regulating markets are fantasy, There is no such thing and has never been, despite the dress ups and rethoric.
And you said you weren’t a marxist. LOL!
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Sam blames the bailouts on Wall Street. But what Sam fails to realize is that government bailouts are NOT a free market policy. If free market policies had been followed there would have never been any bailouts. Bailouts belong to his economic philosophy that the government should interfere in the economy.
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Sam is not a communist or marxist by any stretch of the imaginatiom, you dont know real communists or marxists, you have never been near one. Have you read the communist manifesto ?
And Ive seen some of the docus addressing exactly what Sam is talking about , and, beleive me, you guys arnt refuting the fundimental truths they are telling…even with your fundimental educations about it…..Have you ever lived in a country that has had a financial crisis ? I guarentee you, housing market problems arnt the only blatent reasons…its stuff like dropping currency, printing up money, huge unemployment, huge inflation,immense corruption
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ah….I should have said “Have you ever lived in a country having a financial crisis besides the USA ?”
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@bliff, destructure:
Whew, you boys really do not know what you are saying, dontcha?
1928 stock market crash was because of the unregulated markets, Period. That is a historical fact. Doesn’t matter how ideologically oriented you are, that is a fact. You can sing and dance all you can, but that is the sole reason for that. Any excuse is just an excuse. Herbert Hoover was believing in free markets. He refused to do anything for the crash. He believed, just like you morons, that markets fix themselves. They did not not could not.
Same crap happened in 2008. And what happened? Just like 1928, tax payers like you had to pay the bills made by free economy. Sorry sons, that is just an historical fact. Nothing ideoligical there. Just historical facts. I recommend you kids go back to school and try to learn some history on this too.
As for the bail out in 2008, I totally agree that goverments should not put a single penny on any failing bank or investment institution if and when they fail. There should be the free markets, just like George Bush Jr, Allan Greenspan and all those republican free econommy moguls were saying at the same time they were handing out 770 billion of your money to private banks, just like that. In another words, they were lying to you all the time while they stole 770 000 000 000 dollars from you. Not me, but you.
WTF was that, kids? Free markets? What kind of free markets we have when you have to give your money to huge financial institutions for free? Surely you do not advocate that, do you? But then again, your idols in rebulican party and on the right wing and big business claimed that this was free markets. Well, kids, how it is?
So destructure, you once again are a liar when you say that bailouts are my philosphy. No they are not. They were done by republican leaders and Wall street moguls according to their ideology. Perhaps they are also marxists??
“And you said you weren’t a marxist.”
Yes. I am not a marxist and you do not even know what that means, but I understand. You are products of the american schooling system. Sorry about that, kids.
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“Bliff
I did not blame this on the “average joe”. I said govt policies kicked it off and encouraged poor lending standards. Then “everybody” got into it, and everybody was abusing the situation once the bubble got started. In fact, I did state that subprime loans to unqualified buyers were a major part of the problem. The govt was leaning on the banks to increase lending to people who they felt were not being reached by the banks, and that included minorities in particular.”
Linda says,
Bliff,
Government policies has NOTHING to do with the housing bubble, their policies did not encourage “poor lending standards”…the standards were maintained, they were not changed.
What is so hard to understands?
The banks tweeked a less well regulated niche market (subprime) to their advantage–the Banks were able to get around government policies in order to sell “CREATIVE” mortgages….the banks found a creative way to make money
and sold it to the investors, general public, and investment banks because it made them alot of money, very quickly…and the Government did NOT notice.
the government NEVER leaned on the banks to give people subprime loans (creative mortgages)…they probably weren’t even AWARE that these “creative” mortgages were being handed out to the general public.
The government wasn’t paying attention to what the banks were doing, that’s why the bubble was able to happen.
It’s a popular for people to say “its the government’s fault” but in this situation, It’s OK to blame the real culprits–the BANKS and real estate industry.
I know most Americans like to think that the Federal Government controls the US economy but they are only a tool to be used by the real owners of USA–corporate businesses. The businesses in this country control the economy–they are the heart of capitalism.
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@linda
Government policies has NOTHING to do with the housing bubble, their policies did not encourage “poor lending standards”
Simply not true. Read Sowells “Housing boom & Bust”
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That’s a bit of a false dichotomy, don’t you think? Especially considering the last 20 years of heterodox economics. Nevertheless, as the lender of last resort, and the arbiter of monetary policy, the Federal Reserve should be held accountable for keeping interest rates low for so long, And that was, in large part, to Alan Greenspan’s belief hat the financial sector could regulate itself, both systemically (is in a complex adaptive system), as well as morally.
He was wrong.
His ideals were based on the Austrian/Chicago School ideology that has been under attack from most fields of Heterodox Economics, especially concerning the General Equilibrium Theory and the Rational Expectation Hypothesis. True, Greenspan did raise the interest rates during the 00s, but mortgage lenders used fine print and obfuscation to draw people in with ‘teaser rates’. Never mind his opposition to regulation (that libertarian mindset) of derivative markets, mortgages, etc.
Bankers lend too much when collateral values go up (causing bubbles) and not enough when collateral values flatten (credit freeze). This can be shown with Keynes’ beauty contest and the Prisoner’s dilemma, as well as empirically. And that’s not self-regulation. That’s madness.
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“Bliff
“Simply not true. Read Sowells “Housing boom & Bust”
Don’t need to, I was in the thick of it…sometimes it doens’t hurt to learn from someone with actual experience…you might pick up knowledge that isn’t written in a book..
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“And that was, in large part, to Alan Greenspan’s belief hat the financial sector could regulate itself, both systemically (is in a complex adaptive system), as well as morally.”
Thank you , Satanforce. The banking industry was already “self-regulating” itself for quite sometime when benefactor Greenspan took the prime index to almost 0%…alot of money was made from customers buying down points, even though the bank got the money practically for free.
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@Sam
1928 stock market crash was because of the unregulated markets, Period. Sorry, Sam. Read Milton Friedman’s classic “A Monetary History of the US”, a definitive work, in which he established the stock market crash of 1929 as being the result of a rapid tightening of the money supply.
Now I will agree that the stock and financial markets have historically gone to extremes with boom and bust cycles. Part of that is natural with these markets due to the extreme emotions of participants on the up and down side. But alot of it is due to govt policies, like money supply and govt spending. They expand during good times and force the financial mkts into big boom cycles, which eventually crash. So govt policies have a major effect on the financial markets.
Same crap happened in 2008. No, the govt helped pushed the housing boom. We also had record high oil prices during the summer of 2008 which helped crash the economy.
handing out 770 billion of your money to private banks The problem is, once the bubble has formed, once it bursts, the govt almost has to help out the banks. Otherwise, the recession that follows would be deep long . (This current recession is deep and long because we have an anti-business Prez.) The solution is to prevent the bubbles from getting too big.
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@satanforce
Federal Reserve should be held accountable for keeping interest rates low for so long Agreed, the Fed played a part in the Housing bubble.
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“Bliff
Same crap happened in 2008. No, the govt helped pushed the housing boom.”
Linda,
It is obvious that you are not in the financial industry but you have formed your opinions based on what you hear on the news.
Since you insist on pushing this inaccurated picture of the housing bubble, please state specifically how the government (and please specify which governemnt department) “pushed” the housing bubble….which specific policy did the banks use and how did they use it with the help of the government.
If you make sweeping generalizations, then you need to back it up.
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@Lokey – I don’t know about Abagond, but I recently grabbed a book called “Moral Combat” by Sikivu Hutchinson that seems to have touched on the issue. It’s more about Black Atheists, though. Also, for history buffs, it has a pretty interesting bit on the origin of race-based slavery in the US and how it came to pass in the opening chapter (Only just started reading.)
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By the way, Bliff, I did read your post where you stated
“The Clinton admin started leaning heavy on banks to give out housing loans to the black community and other “disadvantaged” communities. The banks were not allowed to open branches, had to show they had certain number of loans to minorities, were sued with penalties, if they did not expand loans to minorities. The banks made these loans, at higher subprime rates to those who didn’t really qualify for a loan, and then these loans to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.”
Since this scenerio had nothing to do with the real estate bubble, I ask that you don’t include this in detailing your specifics. The “variable interest terms” that you are calling “subprime rates” in your above narrative where not the same mortgage instruments used that excelled the housing bubble…and both black, white, & hispanic general public were equally screwed over.
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I’m glad that you and I can both agree that the belief held by Greenspan (and Sowell) that markets work best without regulation is false. Earlier I had asked you why you didn;t see the contradiction between you being a
real racistrace realist and a fan of Dr. Sowell. My response was in the form of an anchor tag that got eaten. The references are below.http://townhall.com/columnists/thomassowell/2002/10/01/race_and_iq/page/full/
http://townhall.com/columnists/thomassowell/2002/10/02/race_and_iq_part_ii/page/full/
http://townhall.com/columnists/thomassowell/2002/10/03/race_and_iq_part_iii/page/full/
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@Linda
Since this scenerio had nothing to do with the real estate bubble. The housing bubble has roots going back to the 1990s under Clinton, so what I wrote is still valid.
The “variable interest terms” that you are calling “subprime rates” I did not confuse these two. In fact, I used the two terms in two different paragraphs.
both black, white, & hispanic general public were equally screwed over.</i. I do not disagree.
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@satanforce
t see the contradiction between you being a real racist race realist and a fan of Dr. Sowell.
There are things he’s written that I agree with. It seems that he would not agree with me about black/white IQ’s and their importance, as I recall from reading “Race and Culture”. Oh, well, that’s something we don’t agree on, I am certainly used to that. In addition, I am impressed with his straightforward and lucid writing style.
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What I am wondering is, why come here at all, for reasons other than entertainment? Why waste your time with people who you believe (and claim to have proof that) are your intellectual inferiors, whose intellectual inferiority cannot be resolved? What’s the point?
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@BR
Sam is not a communist or marxist by any stretch of the imaginatiom, you dont know real communists or marxists, you have never been near one. Have you read the communist manifesto ?
Don’t make presumptions as to what I don’t know. My wife was raised in a communist country.
********************************************************************
@sam
1928 stock market crash was because of the unregulated markets, Period.
That’s like saying headaches are caused by a lack of aspirin. Assuming businesses can’t learn to manage risk without big daddy government is foolish. They do it all the time. Businesses don’t need to be protected. They need to be allowed to work through it on their own.
What kind of free markets we have when you have to give your money to huge financial institutions for free? Surely you do not advocate that, do you? But then again, your idols in rebulican party and on the right wing and big business claimed that this was free markets.
I never said bail outs were a free market policy. I oppose bailouts. By the way, most of that money went to your shitty EU banks.
So destructure, you once again are a liar when you say that bailouts are my philosphy. No they are not. They were done by republican leaders and Wall street moguls according to their ideology. Perhaps they are also marxists??
Next time you call someone a liar you should probably not follow it up with a lie. The bailouts were passed by a Democratic majority congress. And your boy, Obama, voted for them. The Democrat majority congress liked them so much they even passed some more after your boy was elected president.
Wall Street moguls are capitalists, not marxists. If you had bothered to read the Wealth of Nations rather than the Cliff’s Notes you would have learned that capitalists aren’t always acting in the best interests of the free market. As for republicans, they’re simply politicians. No more and no less.
Yes. I am not a marxist and you do not even know what that means, but I understand. You are products of the american schooling system. Sorry about that, kids.
Yeah, I think you’re a marxist. You’re just a marxist who hates bailouts going to capitalists. Not that there’s anything wrong with hating bailouts going to capitalists. As for our american school system, as crappy as I think it is it’s still better than most european schools. The best thing about Finland’s school system is it doesn’t have many immigrants dragging down the scores. I’ve already discussed that. By the way, since you’ve admitted to being average you should realize that even in a good school system average is still dumb as $#!t.
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@satanforce
What I am wondering is, why come here at all, for reasons other than entertainment? Why waste your time with people who you believe (and claim to have proof that) are your intellectual inferiors, whose intellectual inferiority cannot be resolved? What’s the point?
But would deprive YOU and others here of my POV. This site need;, oops, no, sure, could use some fresh POV.
Haven’t we gone through this before?? Like further up this page, about a week ago?
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You dont know a marxist, you have never had to really hear their robotic drek close up, you havent had to be told what you are going to do for the state….just because your wife is from a communist country , doesnt mean you have any idea what real marxism is, its obvious if you are calling Sam a marxist .
Big points to Linda, Satanforce and Sam for being spot on.
What we really had and have is hyper predatory capatalism which is a differant thing
by the way, here is a linc about alternative IQ tests that was done with the BBC
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6563195.stm
here
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@satanforce
What I am wondering is, why come here at all, for reasons other than entertainment? Why waste your time with people who you believe (and claim to have proof that) are your intellectual inferiors, whose intellectual inferiority cannot be resolved? What’s the point?
I dont think there can be much traffic going through their own blogs. It seems the would be commenters cant cope with reading too much ‘intellectual’ dishonesty in one go… 😉
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What I am wondering is, why come here at all, for reasons other than entertainment?
@SateSate:
Simply put, everyone needs a hobby. Bliff’s is going to blogs diametrically opposed to his way of thinking for the most part. He then proceeds, based on the assumption that no-one here has ever picked up a book, knows jack shi+ from shinola. Henceforth and hitherto, it reinforces his assumption that black folks are indeed dumb….at least most are. There are some exceptions such a kerchief heads like this Sowell clown. Then there are the incognegros Watson(scientist). Old Bliffster has never disappointed. Lord! I feel another pohem coming on!
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BR
You dont know a marxist, you have never had to really hear their robotic drek close up
Well, there’s two kinds. First, there’s the kind who’ve actually lived under communism. Though most people living under communism aren’t marxists. And, second, there are the radicals living in the west. They are fairly common in San Francisco and Berkley and university liberal arts departments. Not only were some of my university professors open marxists but I also lived in the Bay Area for a while. So I’ve had plenty of experience with all of the above.
What we really had and have is hyper predatory capatalism which is a differant thing
Actually, when capitalism becomes hyper predatory its hard to tell the difference. What’s the difference between government controlling business and business controlling government? Ultimately, it ends up being the same people controlling both. That’s why I support free market as much as possible.
So wall street has its hooks in the government, the government has its hooks in GM. We have trade unions where its hard to tell who has their hooks in whom. And we have socialist education, medicare, social security, welfare, agriculture subsidies, etc. And then there is some hyper predatory capitalism, too. Our economic system is a combination of a lot of things.
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Guys,
I’ve made my decision about a few things.
I’m leaving medicine.
I’m done.
Finished.
I’m mentally, emotionally and physically exhausted from the lack of care and compassion in the very field designed to be compassionate.
Also, I recieved my last and final insult.
Have you ever been tired?
Exhausted to the point that just the thought of getting out of bed makes you want to crawl back into bed?
Well that’s me. I was crazy to get into a speciality, years of studying, debt that we still can’t pay off…
And no respect from bosses, co-workers and patients.
I’m done.
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@Demerera
I don’t have a blog. In fact, Abagond’s blog is the only blog I have commented on in my entire life.
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Truthbetold, its for the best….if it really is dragging you down, find something better that will not drain your energy..life is too short
Im facing some desicians like that too…not sure what Ill do
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You dont get it, Destructure, people may say things that sound communist, but they are not…you dont have to be communist to be concerned about workers rights
Also, people read off the Soviet Union propaganda page , with Fedel’s snot on it and not know they are doing that and arnt communist
China is authoritarian capatalism
If you lived in a communist country it doent make you communist
You dont know what a real communist is. I live in a country with a communist party, even they have strayed far from what communism is.
Have you ever read the communist manifesto?
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@truthbetold
Everything will work out for you. It is unhealthy to stay in an environment where you feel stressed and unappreciated. Good luck on whatever you decide to pursue.
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@ truthbetold:
I know how you feel. It was that same feeling that had me holding a bonfire with my dissertation papers – “What’s the point?!?” was my question.
Having your education and intelligence questioned constantly. No respect from anyone, including family. I worked my arse off, and for what? Getting stuck in dead-end jobs that will go nowhere, even when the companies swear that they ‘advance from within’.
I know exactly how you feel…been there, done that. Dropping that tonnage from your shoulders will be a relief to you – count on it.
😎
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BR
you dont have to be communist to be concerned about workers rights
Yeah, but those fixated on workers rights usually are marxists. They may want to soft-pedal it and claim they arent marxist but they usually don’t mind marxism.
China is authoritarian capatalism
What you call “authoritarian capitalism” is really just good old-fashioned fascism.
If you lived in a communist country it doent make you communist
I said that.
Have you ever read the communist manifesto?
I read it when I was a kid. Why do you keep asking?
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peanut
nice girls finish last. i don’t understand why older men don’t fix their sons up with nice women, why don’t men do that?
Men don’t choose women. Women choose men. They just don’t always get to choose the men they want.
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Abagond,
If you’re able to, you can remove my embedded video and paste the link to it in its place. I didn’t think that it would show up the way it did.
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Truthbetold,
I can sympathize.
I wish I knew what to say to help you feel better, but I know words alone won’t help much in such a stressful situation.
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@ Brothawolf
Thanks. This is a long thread – embedded video will kill it.
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Abagond,
No problem. I apologize.
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@destructure:
“1928 stock market crash was because of the unregulated markets, Period.
That’s like saying headaches are caused by a lack of aspirin. Assuming businesses can’t learn to manage risk without big daddy government is foolish. They do it all the time. Businesses don’t need to be protected. They need to be allowed to work through it on their own.”
And yet, the businesses do the same mistakes and disasters again and again. I wonder why, if they are so smart. But you are right, the businesses don’t need to be protected. They should fail when they do so. They should go bankcrupt if they fail. That is why I can not understand why your government stole hundreds of billions from you and handed them to those failing businesses.
“I never said bail outs were a free market policy. I oppose bailouts. By the way, most of that money went to your shitty EU banks.”
Wrong. Most of that 770 billion dollars went for the american investments banks like Meryl Lynch etc. Also, most of the bail out moneys that they are stealing now in Europe are going to those same american investment banks. Lehman Brothers was the biggest single lender for the Greek government and thus allowed Greece live in debt for so long. Actually, Lehman Bros borrowed billions of dollars for the Greek government so that they could pretty up their national budget in order to get into the Euro zone and because nobody could believe and because our politicians were extremely stuoid they allowed Greece in. But the lenders and the money were american.
“Next time you call someone a liar you should probably not follow it up with a lie. The bailouts were passed by a Democratic majority congress. And your boy, Obama, voted for them. The Democrat majority congress liked them so much they even passed some more after your boy was elected president.”
Check the documentary Inside Job. It is all there. The bail out was done by Bush government. Check your facts. Obama is not my buddy. He has the same advisors and guys working in treasury as Bush did. So…
“Yeah, I think you’re a marxist. You’re just a marxist who hates bailouts going to capitalists. Not that there’s anything wrong with hating bailouts going to capitalists. As for our american school system, as crappy as I think it is it’s still better than most european schools. The best thing about Finland’s school system is it doesn’t have many immigrants dragging down the scores. I’ve already discussed that. By the way, since you’ve admitted to being average you should realize that even in a good school system average is still dumb as $#!t.”
You may think but I am not. And I think it is very funny that a righ wing (falsely) free markets supporter like you is ok with goverment bail outs at all. That is socialism. But you just socialize the debts and losses, not the winnings. Pretty stupid socialism that is, but obviously your kind of socialism.
You can also think that your school system is better than europeans but that is not true. Check the PISA. And check the current discussion going on about US educational system. Even your own professors and experts are pretty worried about it. In Europe not a single pupil can finish his/hers school by throwing ball as some have done in US.
I may be average in your mind, which I was not at my school, but at least I am not ignorant like you, thanks to my european schooling.
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sam
And yet, the businesses do the same mistakes and disasters again and again. I wonder why, if they are so smart.
I don’t know about that. Even if the great depression and the recent housing bubble were caused by the same thing (and I’m not completely convinced they were) then that would make twice in a century. That’s hardly “again and again”. I would argue, that it was government interference that created this latest crisis.
Wrong. Most of that 770 billion dollars went for the american investments banks like Meryl Lynch etc. Also, most of the bail out moneys that they are stealing now in Europe are going to those same american investment banks.
According to the GAO’s audit, the Federal Reserve provided more than $16 trillion in financial assistance with 3.3 trillion of it going to foreign banks.
http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/news/?id=9e2a4ea8-6e73-4be2-a753-62060dcbb3c3
Check the documentary Inside Job. It is all there.
Yeah, I’m going to get my info from that “documentary”. LOL!
The bailout was passed by a democrat majority congress.
And I think it is very funny that a righ wing (falsely) free markets supporter like you is ok with goverment bail outs at all.
You’re a pathological liar. Anyone with eyes can see I’ve repeatedly denounced the bailouts.
You can also think that your school system is better than europeans but that is not true. Check the PISA.
Yes. It is true.
http://super-economy.blogspot.com/2010/12/amazing-truth-about-pisa-scores-usa.html
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@truthbetold
I wanted to let you know that you definitely have to make the decision for yourself. I’m also in the medical field and I can say, I definitely can relate with feeling defeated, fed up, and tired. Yet at the end of the day, what gets me through the “gaslighting” and blatant racism that is so engrained in our US society-is that my ancestors endured so much more! And I think about how they must be smiling at me, with all that I’ve accomplished through their blood, sweat, and tears. And it’s not for nothing. Remember, success is success only because it relates to struggle.
I hope you can *maybe* take a break from it all, but definitely don’t quit. We need more AA professional in the medical field. Especially if it is your passion. Take care of yourself.
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To all:
Thanks guys for the words of kindness.
I’ve been feeling like this for 10 years! Working for a medical agency where I traveled all over the US has taught me more than I cared to handle. That’s why when folks make claims about certain topics, I just shake my head and wonder if ignorance is truly bliss.
Marshiara4life:
It used to be my passion.
Once when I was younger and able to withstand the crap. Now it’s a burden. And no, there aren’t many people of colour in medicine, much less specialities, period. Where I work, the coloureds are housekeepers(Latino), Food service(black mostly), and customer service/ switchboard operators( young Asian girls with a few black).
I used to wonder where “we” were. Now I know. The racist system either keeps us out or drives us away. Did I ever tell you that one of the best Nephrologists I know, now has a small private practice, family owned, with his mom as the receptionist, and his daughter as the scheduler/filer/ insurance looker-upper? I asked him why he left such a prominent hospital. He said “My skin was a problem.”
I’m leaving ’cause I’m drained. I’m leaving so I can come home and enjoy playing with the family and our dog. I’m leaving before I begin not to care.
@ sepulltura
I remember when we were having DVT, (deep vein thrombosis), month, I was chosen to do the presentation. In my glee, I never noticed the scowl on my co-worker’s faces. I worked like a horse, gathering information, taking ultrasound pictures, the works.
One week before the big day, I needed to download my pics from the machine to a cd. I was using powerpoint, which I haven’t used since college, and was a bit nervous. I went into the main screen, hit the pictures tab and what came up on the screen said ” no pictures found”.
I stared dumbly at the white words on the screen wondering if I needed new glasses. I tried again, ” no pictures found”, it screamed at me.
I nearly died.
When I walked into the main workroom, NOT ONE person lifted her head. NOT ONE face met my eyes. NO ONE woman dared to make a move. I just stood there wondering if this was a joke, a prank.
But it was real. Premeditated.
I never did give my presentation.
I went home with one more defining moment in my black life that I was hated, despised, that my own co-workers would rather sacrifice a department than let me have one moment in the sun.
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Oh, I have more than a poem in mind….
Because that’s some gay shit. As a young man, it’s your responsibility to fuck as many bitches as possible. And I suspect that this will continue into the future, seeing as marriage is for bitches and bitch-ni66as, who will have their bitches divorce them and take their money.. Basically, if you live at/near college or in a large city with large turnover, you should be fucking two new bitches a week.
No father in his right mind is going to tell his son to settle down with a “nice girl” when he should be fucking down the place. That would be cruel and restrictive.
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@ Satan
You nearly rocked me sideways!
Where does that dark wit come from?
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I don’t make the relationship rules. I just follow them.
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@truthbetold
Where does that dark wit come from?
It’s easy, he wrote like a man. We all pretty much feel that way.
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Hmmm….it’s about time…
http://www.katu.com/news/national/Five-get-prison-terms-in-Hurricane-Katrina-shooting-incident-146157115.html
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@ truthbetold:
Wow. You were set up to fail and thrown under the bus all at once…I can relate to that.
At my last job, I was (unexpectedly and supposedly) put in charge of updating the online, company Rolodex of local listings. This consisted of me working for two months straight, for 4 hours per day, updating and ‘cleaning up’ 8,500+ entries – some of the contact information was 10 years old. I was supposed to have sole access and permissions to the list, so nobody else should have been able to make any changes save for the two I.T. individuals. From day one, at least 3 other people were still given access and were making changes as fast as I was trying to correct them – the proof was in the fact that the program would show who made the last change in the Rolodex, and the date and time the change was made.
I was essentially sabotaged by my so-called co-workers in my department, and my proof was selectively dismissed by the managing principal. C’est la vie…
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@ Sepultura13
Wow. Sorry about that.
Funny isn’t it? Whenever we are given perceived power/authority, we :
1. Are undermined
2. Are questioned
3. Set up to fail
4. Stolen from
Since you are no longer working on your doctorate, what will you do?
My good friend, an ex-pediatric RN, went back to school, DeVry, and got into database mgmnt. She now works from home, and is very happy. I’m working on a home based career myself…
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@Sepultura13,truthbetold:
I have just completed a complaint at work based upon having to work in a poisoned work atmosphere. However I am too ornery to quit, I’d rather be a thorn in their side. As to the list you provided(truth), I have seen this many a time. I have seen black managers ridiculed, their authority questioned,and setup, never mind to fail. I have seen the adverse effects of internalized racism where the crabs in the barrel mentality prevails. I have also seen many fight the system and beat the odds. I say pi$$ on the fcukers!
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@ Herneith
Be careful about workplace complaints…often times they are used against YOU rather than hurt the people in question.
Also, it could be twisted that you are the aggressor.
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@Robert & Bulanik
Lets start the Easter weekend on a vintage note…
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lp6pr7T_4Co)
This is where I first saw Madonna, on the U.K programme The Tube…
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufABbUAW_7Y)
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJkrA6DtDgQ)
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l35YUpi2oPE)
And the million dollar question, what is the link (albeit tenuous) between the songs????
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@peanut
nice girls finish last. i don’t understand why older men don’t fix their sons up with nice women, why don’t men do that?
Hmmm, unfortunately I have to say there can be some truth in this. I think often men ‘think’ with the little head and then the ‘big’ head catches up after a while and recognises that what delights the loins doesnt always match in terms of a meeting of minds….
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I’m watching a show that I really like. “Antiques Roadshow”. But this show is kind of racially insensitive. Black people don’t really go on it because they don’t have generational wealth as a common course of life. I never see Native Americans on the show, yet I ALWAYS see their heirlooms. Just a random thought as I watch this show. Good episode, by the way.
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@ all-
Do you all like scrabble? If so, would love to play some of you guys sometime- my username on Words with Friends is –>Laugh-n-Loudly
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@ Darqbeauty
My mom loves the show. When these folks who present a rug or vase found in granny’s attic, hoping it’s worth millions, only to find out it’s a fake worth $ 2.00,…my mom loves the suspense!
I saw one black guy on it. He had a slave blanket, with his 4th grandfather’s tribal colours and symbols on it.
I could see the appraiser’s discomfort when he was examining it.
He said, “it’s virtually priceless”, and made some quote of 25,000 dollars starting bid. This show is a reminder than we don’t have generational wealth that was passed on to the kids. We had no choice but to work, and most often live, in poverty…
That’s why now, being mostly middle class and rising upper class, it’s so amazing.
Don’t laugh but I also watch the New Yankee Workshop. I just love the primitive but new- wanting -to- look -old furniture.
My dad and uncle were both carpenters and farmers. We have LOTS of beaten up furniture he made from remnants of knotty pine. I went to Pottery Barn once and saw a hutch they had for 1,900 dollars! It looked like the one my grandma used to store cans! LOL…
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@ Darqbeauty
Oh one more thing…
Shabby chic…do you like it? I grew up with “shabby chic” design.
It’s called 5 kids, grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins and a dog!
LOL!!!
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Hi
I will now use my U.S connections to ask if anyone knows why Angelique?? REALLY got disqualified from ANTM All Stars????
I’m very curious…
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@ demerera
What’s ANTM?
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@ Herneith & truthbetold:
I was definitely made out to be the ‘problem child’, even though I complained the least…it was definitely a strange experience. I feel much better about not being in that environment, I can tell you that!
I gave up my doctorate years ago, so that’s incidental – I have no desire to work in the mental health field, LOL – so, I’m going to go to community college to take some courses in order to re-familiarize myself with the radio industry, and regain my broadcaster’s license. I’ve always enjoyed working in radio; it was one of the most fulfilling careers I ever had.
@ mashiara:
I love Scrabble! I’m a crossword puzzle fiend… 😎
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@truth
America’s Next Top Model “All Stars” 🙂
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@truthbetold:
My complaint has already been substantiated. I am choosing another venue because nothing was done about it. It is time for them to pay the piper!
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@ Demerera
*Rings buzzer* holiday? lol
I’m not going to be around for a while so bye for now and take care 🙂
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cG-e4cf39E)
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtdVUHRIgwI)
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eta4aa009rs)
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=660TEgkvrJk)
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@ Herneith
Isn’t it strange that America doesn’t have anti workplace bully laws?
Canada has it, as does the UK.
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@Robert
Correct 🙂
Take care and dont be away for too long now…
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2125512/10-year-old-Colombian-girl-gives-birth-healthy-baby-daughter.html#ixzz1rIKY1G3J
10 year old gives birth to a baby.. -_- But if you go lower in the 1930s a five year old gave birth to a baby ..o.O..Now I remember why I usually avoid the news.
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@ deedee
Excuse me while I suppress the urge to vomit. I hate evil. And a 10 year old and 5 year old pregnant girl is evil on the part of those who committed the atrocities.
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@darqbeauty
I just can’t believe that “cultural practices” is what kept the people who did that to them from jail. I understand that there are initiations into adulthood but I can’t see a 10 year old and five year old ever reaching anywhere near that point.
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“Cultural practices” are just a cop out for old nasty men who want to have sex with children. This is common in patriarchal societies where women have had their voices snatched away from them. It’s disgusting! I totally agree with you.
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It seems like white racism is coming out in deadly forces:
http://news.yahoo.com/manhunt-underway-tulsa-gunman-kills-3-211007756.html
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Videoclip by Adrian Piper (1988), a philosopher/artist, who abjects to being seen as white, while she in fact identifies herself as being black.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUJ8MhXTwtI)
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIkvjGq7VgM)
On my weblog some of her art (Youtube is more intersting for this blog):
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@ RBB85
I did a post on that video:
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I find that very strange, and very interesting…I wonder why? Curiouser and curiouser…
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@Sepultra13
Yes, there are Anti Bullying laws in place in the UK however, I have yet to work in an establishment where they are used effectively to help the employee. Instead, my experiences have been that they have been used to protect the employer particularly in the instances where they have someone in place as a manager who is they bully.
They will ensure that the manager in these instances is protected at all costs. I sincerely hope this starts to get addressed soon…
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Ah, that makes sense…it’s similar, then, to the toothless ‘Equal Opportunity employment’ laws in the USA, which are supposed to help minimize and/or prevent workplace discrimination. Instead, they are used in exactly the same way you cite.
The employer is protected – the whistle-blower (abused employee) is victimized further, by the very system that is supposed to assist them.
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@ Sepultura & Demerera,
I have noticed that a lot of anti-bullying laws are made to project the image of protecting the employee when they in fact are there to protect the employer from any liability. I’m not sure if there is something there that protects the accuser from any sort of “revenge” during the investigation of a claim,
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@Ace and Sepultra13
What generally happens is that they appoint someone into a senior role where they are managing people with NO training on people management.
The result is often a knee jerk reaction to then protect said manager and preserve an untarnished image for the organisation lest it go to an employment tribunal. I worked in an organisation where no less than 7 employees complained about a manager. They said they were aware of her failings and would give her training but this was merely lip service. The manager STILL works in that organisation and was heard boasting several times “x put in a complaint about me but nothing was done about it he he he”
The employee tends always to be the one counselled on how not to antagonise said manager further whilst the manager is merely told to be careful what they do.
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http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-bank-teller-thwarts-robbery-by-saying-banks-closed-come-back-tomorrow-20120403,0,1539443.story
Teller thwarts robbery by saying: ‘Bank’s closed, come back tomorrow’
…XD
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/05/anti-bullying-laws-christian-religious-freedom_n_1406757.html
Christian Groups Take Issue With Anti-Bullying Laws
I wonder when will people distinguish personal beliefs from religious doctrines.
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Have you folks ever heard of this website called “Black Girls are Easy”? The owner wrote a post about Trayvon. What do you guys (not the trolls) think about it?:
http://blackgirlsareeasy.com/2012/04/sick-of-trayvon-martin.html
And this is the post he is referencing:
http://lettersfromawhoremongerswife.com/2012/03/28/eve-was-unarmed-she-wasnt-wearing-a-hoodie-she-was-murdered-are-you-angry/
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@ Cece D,
The first link was honestly a little ridiculous for me. I never agree with this “racism is our fault” sort of mentality people like that seem proud to possess. I also never agree with painting black people under the same (ghetto, Detroit, savages in their own community, listen to rap) brush.
The second link was just a bunch of self-righteous read herring and pearl clutching.
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@ Demerera,
Yeah, I figured as much. I’ve noticed that, during the jobs I’ve had, people seem to spend more time making the complainer feel like they might’ve jumped the gun than making the accused actually fully own up.
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@ Demerera:
That’s it right there – you nailed it. This is why I don’t utilize the supposedly helpful ‘Employee Assistance Programs’ (EAPs) that a lot of companies seem to offer. I view them with a jaundiced eye, as I’ve heard that the information given them has been used to get rid of ‘problem’ or ‘troubled’ employees. Not very confidential, if you ask me – and they are supposed to be completely confidential.
@Bulanik:
This is exactly what happened to me – this is why they were able to negate the evidence and information I was compiling; I was basically given ‘reasonable, valid’ answers as to why so-and-so was allowed access to the files that I was working on, or why I was treated in a hostile manner by so-and-so, etc.
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@Sepultra13
This is why I don’t utilize the supposedly helpful ‘Employee Assistance Programs’ (EAPs) that a lot of companies seem to offer. I view them with a jaundiced eye, as I’ve heard that the information given them has been used to get rid of ‘problem’ or ‘troubled’ employees.
The organisations I have worked for use these. They are ‘supposed’ to be confidential – the only thing that should be fed back are the statistical breakdown of calls i.e. Male vs Female, kind of issues i,e, legal/personal/work etc.
The best way to get the most out of these things is, IMO, to call and give a bogus name. This should be accepted, after all, they claim its confidential so they shouldnt fret that people want to take their own precautions. I have called on and given the name of some random on occassion – never my own name.
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^
Furthermore I always give different names for the individuals involved, department and if it isnt relevant, the role that I am undertaking.
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@ Demerera:
Live and learn, LOL – I keep taking notes from job to job, trying to learn from the previous one so I don’t make the same errors the next time around. The only thing I haven’t done differently, yet, is how I socialize at work…that will be the next change I make! I’ve always had a policy of never dating any co-workers; I should have extended that socialization policy to friendships or acquaintances in general, by not mixing work with pleasure in any way, shape or form. Maybe attend a company function here and there, but limit the time spent and keep it short and sweet…and, don’t go to every function, every year!
Not that those rules will apply for much longer, anyway…I’m much closer to self-employment than I’ve been in a long time. It’s a great feeling! 😎
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@Sepultura13
Not that those rules will apply for much longer, anyway…I’m much closer to self-employment than I’ve been in a long time. It’s a great feeling!
Wow – thats fantastic. You must be thrilled. Good luck in all your future endeavours – do keep us posted on how you get on 🙂
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Guys,
A funny thing happened over the Easter weekend. I was with my family and I decided to start tilling the earth to get ready for planting seeds. We all decided to pitch in.
I never saw my older neighbor spying. She does that a lot.
She resents us and makes no secret of it. A young family, mostly coloured, owning a piece of farmland with a cute gingerbread bungalow…it sets her off.
We decided to do all cooking herbs this year with the usual zucchini and tomatoes. She waited til I was alone and yelled at me from across the street, ” They won’t make it. Rabbits were spotted.”
***sigh***
Seems like a small thing right?
This woman has been a thorn in our sides from day damn one.
From our firewood delivery to our family picnics where she called the cops, ( she claims we were playing music too loud. We weren’t.)
she has made no secret that we are not like or welcomed in the neighborhood.
Why is it that we just can’t have one damn thing?
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@Truthbetold
That woman seems rude and downright racist. She resents us and makes no secret of it. A young family, mostly coloured, owning a piece of farmland with a cute gingerbread bungalow…it sets her off.”
Wow even the holidays didn’t make her nicer!
Ignore her, there is people like that in all races.
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http://www.koreabang.com/2012/stories/incompetent-police-fail-to-prevent-horrific-murder-of-woman.html
“Korea has been gripped by the horrific and gruesome murder (April 1) of Ms. K, a 28 year old woman who was kidnapped, raped, and dismembered into 280 parts, despite having called the police giving accurate details as to her whereabouts. The police arrived at the crime scene 13 hours later, to find her dismembered body as well as the suspected murderer, a Chinese of Korean descent (Korean name Oh Won-chun).”
Kidnapped…raped…dismenbered into 280 parts..Over bumping shoulders in the street. Some psychos just need any reason to kill. At least the suspect was caught but the police were sloppy with handling that woman’s emergency call.
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That poor woman. I can’t even fathom…dismembered into 280 parts?!?! Talk about overkill.
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@ Truthbetold,
Wow. Yeah I’m getting the impression that she resents you guys being there. Some people really can’t let people of color have one good thing without wanting to somehow diminish or mar it. Your supposed to live in the inner-city, killing each other, not living on a nice piece of land you own having happy picnics.
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(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdFtnPBwETs)
^^^^
One of my favorite Kanye West songs. He is a very talented artist. Very good looking man too.
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@JT
How goes the studying? Shouldnt you be hitting the books now? (I know I know, nag nag) lol
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@ Demerera,
I can’t help it that you are more interesting to listen to then psychology journal articlse and course books!! Humans are interesting in theory but in person they are much more compelling, complicated and individualistic.
Id rather come here any day of the week! =) But i digress. You are right.
*Grumble Grumble*
I’d better go now …
=P
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@JT
Stern voice now – this forum will always be here and your comments welcomed now, back to studying 😉
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http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/04/13/mayor-michael-bloomberg-on-the-nra-s-nightmare-nation.html
Co-signed! Stand behind the struggle against the NRA. The NRA politicos and lobbyists have been responsible for the legalization of “Stand your ground Laws.” In so doing they are waging a war on anyone they deem a threat (often POC).
The NRAs war is the war against POC. Why do we not fight back?
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^^^^Upon reading this it sounds like i am saying that nothing has been done. I mean to say that we must be motivated to direct the fight to those involved in nefarious lobbying groups. They and their corporate backers (i believe) are the roots of some of the most heinous human rights violations in america. They profit from profligate gun use.
They fail when people question why americans need so many guns – Canada and western europe are not the socialist left-wing paradise that right-wingers make them out to be. Canada has a right-wing goverment and we do not require a gun to protect us from our government. We are a liberal democracy because that is enshrined in our constitution.
Guns in my opinion put everyone at more risk for assault. I would like to see them more thoroughly regulated by the USA government. It will save thousands of innocent lives if it were to happen.
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Romney warning the NRA about a second Obama term:
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/04/13/romney-to-warn-gun-lobby-of-a-second-obama-term/
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@ JT,
Are you kidding me? Great. Another reason why I’m not voting Romney, besides the obvious.
I’m a firm believer that everyone has a right to defend themselves and their home(note that I said home). I believe that a gun is an understandable thing to use for that purpose. But that’s just it. It’s a defensive tool, and maybe a tool to hunt, not to go trolling around for “suspicious minorities” to blow way when you’re having a bad day or a case of the crazies.
In the state we live right now, they were trying (for a while) to make guns legal to carry on campus. Can you imagine the horror that would take place with legal guns AND a stand your ground law on a heavily populated (and often drunk) college campus?
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Very interesting information…..
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@ Ace,
I dont believe that the American people need to worry about forming a private militia against their government and their other threats. I dont buy the premise that they are under attack. Thus i disagree with the premise that guns are a legitimate means for defense. If the attacker didn’t have access to them (e.g. like most youth and adults don’t in other countries bc they don’t know people that own guns or are not within their rights to own one) then you have a much safer society to begin with.
The homicide rate for the USA has been on a fairly reliable decline from 5.7 per 100 000 citizens as of 2000 —– 4.8 per 100 000 citizens as of 2011)
Relatively speaking most W.European countries and Canada have an average homocide of less than half (>1.81 murders per 100 000)
Good news: the USA is headed in the right direction. The bad news: you’d never know it based on the news coverage of homicide after homocide. Yes it does happen and it deserves to be touched on but when it becomes the sole obsession of some of these freaks that come from Stormfront you’re headed for a alienated and terrified population.
.
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Jordan Brown guilty of killing his father’s pregnant fiancee when he was just 11
..O.o. I need to find that site again about young killers but I was surprised at how young this child was and yet he committed a murder.
teen girls arrested in murder of N.C. cab driver
Teenagers possibly killing a cab driver. Shocking.
Gang rape of 11-year-old Texas girl is on cell phone video, say police
An 11 year-old girl..really? And they video taped it. Justice will be served. They will probably get death sentences. Texas loves to fry people is what I have heard.
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@ JT,
You have great points! My family has always believed that guns are necessary at times, but should be limited and used responsibly, only as a last resort when no other option is available.
I agree with you completely. I personally don’t think there’s some huge attack on America where everyone should have a gun (though I have seen people who are truly that paranoid). When I say defense I mean more like hidden in a lock box out of sight and never leaving the house. I definitely don’t agree with walking around with guns. That just makes things more dangerous. I also agree that if guns were harder to get there’d be a safer society. The shooting we had down here in AZ (Where Gabrielle Giffords was shot, and a little girl was killed among others) happened because there was a young unstable man who was able to get a gun far too easy. That’s the same case for almost every mass murder in this country. .
I also agree, part of the problem is that people think in absolutes. A need for safety goes from taking a self defense class and getting a security system, to getting a gun and looking for anyone who “looks like bad news”. It’s a part of “Low Effort Thinking”, it’s easier to act like the world is either perfect and in harmony or completely screwed and full of constant death. It’s easier to justify a bad world view (like racism, xenophobia, etc.) if you can find a news story about a homicide like every hour.
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@JT et al
What do you think of Englands policy of no guns?
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Reading the comments defending the Zimmerman/Martin case is giving me a profound case of Emotional Negro Thinking.
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Ummm, Peanut, you feel like unbanning me from your blogs? Pretty please?
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“When Democrats Gave Up On Guns”
http://www.salon.com/2012/04/13/when_democrats_gave_up_on_guns/singleton/
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http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/health/beer-men-smarter-study-article-1.1059752
“Beer makes men smarter. So say researchers at the University of Illinois in Chicago.”
Good way to waste research on pointless endeavors. I don’t believe beer makes anyone smarter but that’s just me with my opinion and no research study findings.
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Ummm…That’s nice, Peanut…I suppose?
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I’m not surprised. The high levels of testosterone that black women possess in your age group is a major contributor to the high levels of sexual promiscuity among you people.
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That’s it. I’m done. No more blck women for me.
http://www.ocweekly.com/2012-02-16/news/moxley-confidential-jennifer-tamara-mcclain-christopher-roger-brown-mark-mchenry-landmark-steakhouse/
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@Satanforce…………ahhh but it is common the other way around for a white woman to go with a black man who hates white men. At least it isn’t the one exception like the example you showed. So we got one on you. Somehow one example doesn’t make me feel better.
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@JT et al.
What do you think of Englands policy of no guns?
“”
At the risk of showing no nuance to my opinion – i didn’t know about it until i read your post Demerera and I absolutely support England’s policy of no guns.
To say that we, citizens, need guns is to obfuscate the real issue at hand – what could we possibly need a gun for? To defend ourself? To defend ourself from what? A poor person? A “crazy” person? An angry person? WHat makes a person any of those things?
Social injustice. Why is social injustice prevalent in the first place? Because the concentration of wealth over generations in a certain element of the population and the consequent disparities that grow on all indicators of well-being thereafter.
What about those people that go senselessly into public spaces and shoot freely? Shouldn’t we be able to protect ourselves against them?
Yes but if such a person lacked the channels of distribution/legal sanction to obtain a gun then the hypothetical would no longer be plausible. Why would one need a gun at that point?
Then finally, what about defending against the tyranny of the government?
Anyone that is convinced that the Anglo-Franco wars of the 17th and 18th century should determine how accessible deadly fire arms are to us today is at a fundamental disconnect with reality.
Moreover, should any level of government/police force want our guns, the fact that we have them is not going to prevent them from taking them.
The state, by definition, has a monopoly on power.
Why keep up a pretense that we are more free because of guns? We are not.
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In relevant news: the xenophobic scumbag from Norway that shot 70+ children and people is arguing that he did so in self-defense.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/16/world/europe/norway-breivik-trial/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
Wow – self-defense seems to run the gammit – i mean even to defend oneself from innocent children:
Not unlike George Zimmerman.
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@ Peanut
I admit I am not the best at that, but it has been particularly bad over the past two or three weeks because I have been working 50 to 60 hour weeks and will remain busy till Tuesday night.
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@ JT
It’s been awhile since I visited London but I’m also in support of the No Gun Law. Funny thing about weapons that noone wants to admit.
A gun gives you a false sense of bravado and security. I don’t care what people say, if you load a gun and take it with you, on some level, you intend to use it.
A gun gives you options on how to deal with a stressful situation.
If someone approaches me and for whatever reason, I don’t like them, a gun will give me one more way of ” dealing with it “.
JT, we have guns. I grew up in on a rural farm. A gun was a must. There was no such thing as ADT alarms. But it was kept inside the house at all times.
If Zimmerman wasn’t carrying a weapon, he would’ve stayed in the car and waited for the police.
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@ Truthbetold,
I think you are 100% right. In rural places; for ethnic minorities, I ACTUALLY think there is some acceptable and understandable precautions being taken there. Absolutely.
And those extenuating situations are also mediated by the fact that gun-violence and gun-related homicide is a relatively uncommon phenomenon because White on Black violence is less common in rural areas because there are relatively fewer Blacks in many rural areas because they do not feel comfortable in rural areas. In large part because white people are less educated in rural areas and less educated persons are more likely to be conservative and less likely to be open to different cultures (or on more extreme ends of the continuum).
So yes – i see a very good case for rural POC in being in possession of guns.
@ Abagond,
It would be an interesting post for Abagond to do about the Black rural flight.
Also Abagond you have to do the white hall of fame all star profile post Anders Breivik. They talk about Black-on-Black violence – this is one of the most deadly White-on-White violence i have ever seen.
Can’t White people end their inter-ethnic political and racial infighting?
RIP in victims of Anders Breivik. I am inciting your story to demonstrate to the ignorant & blinded the destructive potential of blind idealogy.
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@ JT
Here in NE PA, there are a few black farmers/construction workers/landscapers. Some commute into NYC (90 mins) and some, like us, either work locally or at home.
When we first moved up here, we were VERY concerned about the lack of diversity and had many stares and rude questions. Thankfully, nothing has happened to make us fear for our lives. Guns were apart of our upbringing but primarily to shoot and hunt game for food.
I don’t oppose guns per se, I just believe that they are best kept at home, for home defense. Carrying a gun on your person will only give someone with an axe to grind justification to use it.
As for the Breivik situation, how ironic that he fears minorities and foreigners as being the root of criminal behaviour yet he kills his own kind and see it as normalcy. I will never understand racism. NEVER.
Like Zimmerman, he was afraid of the “others”. Yet he is the one who caused all the harm. Let me ask you something, my husband brought up, Zimmerman is Latino, no? Doesn’t he think that he is classified as an “outsider” in the eyes of white America? His ethnic group is also seen a criminal, no? How odd that he would think poorly of blacks when he is seen in the same catagory. I got a good look at him on TV. I seldom watch the Idiot Box but I had to see what he looked like. He has that crazed , paranoid look in his eyes. Very Intense, very military.
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@ Matari
Whiteness is already being attacked. 9/11 proved that. Tim McVeigh proved that. Charlie Manson proved that. Colombine proved that. Bernie Madoff proved that. For DECADES.
The sad thing is that most whites will not and cannot see is that the very system they created is turning against them. Their OWN people are turning against them. Funny isn’t it? Blacks want equality. We couldn’t care less what whites are doing. Not only do they fret about blacks seeking revenge but they fret to the point of anxiety, panic attacks, depression, insomnia and paranoia that someone, anyone, is gaining on them.
That’s what aquiring wealth and power by dishonest means does to you. You are in constant fear that you’ll lose your precious supremacy. When, not if, but when it happens, may God have mercy on us all.
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The exoneration of Bennett Barbour – after 33 years, a Black man is exonerated for a rape he didn’t commit by DNA evidence.
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2012/03/bennett_barbour_exonerated_of_rape_in_virginia_how_the_state_is_botching_the_dna_retesting_and_notification_of_old_cases.html
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@ Everyone,
To brighten your day: =)
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtzMfzaHZVU&feature=related)
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(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zN6W82kyMAE&feature=related)
This one’s good too.
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@JT & Truth
To say that we, citizens, need guns is to obfuscate the real issue at hand – what could we possibly need a gun for? To defend ourself? To defend ourself from what? A poor person? A “crazy” person? An angry person? WHat makes a person any of those things?
A gun gives you a false sense of bravado and security. I don’t care what people say, if you load a gun and take it with you, on some level, you intend to use it.
I know my own thoughts on Treyvon’s death but the fact of the matter which should be strongly considered is this. IF as some believe, the young athletic Treyvon overpowered this big bulky man perhaps they would have scuffled, a few blows thrown, police would have been at the scene, they would have been charged with affray and one or maybe both of them banged up for ABH/GBH but NO ONE would be dead now.
To both of you, would you feel any more/less safer visiting any city in the UK due to the fact that there are no guns?
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@ Demerera
I’d feel safer. Private citizens don’t need guns on their person.
I wouldn’t have to worry about someone with an axe to grind aching for a confrontation.
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@truthbetold
I’d feel safer. Private citizens don’t need guns on their person.
I wouldn’t have to worry about someone with an axe to grind aching for a confrontation.
Hiya. Yes, there is a certain sense of safety but, it would be misleading and downright dishonest of me to say that there is no violence despite this.
There has been a surge in recent years of knife related crimes which have left a sad and unecessary trail of primarily young men in their wake. This is a very serious issue which needs addressing.
I agree with you though re guns, particularly when I read the commentary from the few commenters on here….
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/17/lena-adelsohn-liljeroth-cake_n_1431544.html?ref=canada&ir=Canada
^^^^
Repugnant. Scroll to the photos.
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To both of you, would you feel any more/less safer visiting any city in the UK due to the fact that there are no guns?
”
”
@ Demerera,
I have never been to the UK but I believe that they have taken the right policy with their gun ban. I wish that Canada would follow suit.
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To Satanforce:
Who said:
That’s it. I’m done. No more blck women for me.
http://www.ocweekly.com/2012-02-16/news/moxley-confidential-jennifer-tamara-mcclain-christopher-roger-brown-mark-mchenry-landmark-steakhouse/
Value added twist.. his defense attorney is Jewish.
“I called Gurwitz and asked him if Brown knows he’s Jewish.
“Of course,” replied the attorney, laughing.”
The multicultural White supremacist.. ?
I see a Dave Chappelle skit somewhere…
To dave:
Who said:
“@Satanforce…………ahhh but it is common the other way around for a white woman to go with a black man who hates white men. At least it isn’t the one exception like the example you showed. So we got one on you. Somehow one example doesn’t make me feel better.”
I don’t think that’s the message that Satanforce was trying to convey.. I mean.. really the story is ridiculous at multiple levels.
Not a country music fan, but this song seems apt:
http://www.stlyrics.com/songs/w/waylonjennings4905/lookinforlove213825.html
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What do you folks think would happen if Obama was to win a second term? Would the Republikkklans/Teabaggers/race relish/etc collectively loose their sh*t?
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@ CeceD
Obama will most likely win a second term due to the fact that Romney isn’t strong enough to beat him. Also he is a Mormon. From my own experiences, conservative White Americans do not respect or acknowledge ANY religion not based on Christ.
When he takes a second term, racist whites will go ape-shit.
They’ll try EVERY trick in the OLD SOUTHERN DOCTRINE to see him destroyed. White racists will experience a fear like they’ve never known that “the others” are taking over. They’ll lock their doors, bolt their basements, tell their children about the mysterious, over-sexed, super-strength, bullet-defying, dark-skinned boogey man who will violate their daughters, whites will be nervous walking down the street now more than ever so be sure to avoid all eye contact lest they flee for dear life, the ‘educated racists’ will write COUNTLESS articles defiling Obama’s character, KKK rallies will strengthen, as will the Black Panthers, Ted Nugent will explode, Rush and his ilk will go too far on the air and incite violence much like Gabby Giffords, a lone wolf will wake up one morning in his sleepy suburban town and concoct a diabolical plan to terminate every black person in AmeriKKKa, and every white, trailer, piece of trash will buy more guns to begin this war that’s been 450 years in the making.
On the other side…blacks and most coloureds will rejoice that they’ve witnessed, yet again, history in the making.
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@ Truthbetold,
I agree. Zimmerman came across as even more uncaring than I could have even imagined.
I was thinking: you know what kills me about the race realists coming to arms for this George Zimmerman. Let’s see –
White supremacists typically despise people of Jewish descent who they still see with the Nazi view AND hispanic peoples whom they consider to be drug-addled, gangs, violent, invaders etc. If it had been a white youth that had died, they would have crucified Zimmerman. But because it is a Black victim you not only don’t see them staying quiet in respect for Trayvon and his family but you have them ralleying around Zimmerman who is guilty of murder at worst, manslaughter at best.
Nothing to unify “race realists” than the Black person.
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@ JT
That hypocrisy is fooling many people of colour into thinking that they are above blacks.
Racists will use ANYONE, especially another person of colour, to act out their plan. Just look at Allen West! Amy Holmes and Michael Steele!
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@ Abagond,
Could you please look at the last comment made by Doug1111 in the George Zimmerman should be arrested thread.
This:
“Raciss, raciss, raciss” thing irks me to no end every time i see it and they keep doing it. I want to beat them down every time.
******Does Anger Management meditation*****
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@ Truthbetold,
I have a serious issue with these people and what they stand for. I do not like that they are doing what they are doing and have been doing it like this to even more extreme and irredeemable levels for centuries. Enough violation, enough disrespect. Show some reverance to a people that have not only always deserved but have earned respect!!!!!
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Abagond and JT
With Obama’s impending win, more of this evil will continue and probably get much worse.
Doug’s street ghetto slang is so ridiculous. As is he.
Ever wonder why they insult us for having a low IQ but then cannot read or write proper English?
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Oh bomboclaat, I need to
downloadbuy them Ethiopian music!!!! It is fucking awesome!!!LikeLike
I want hear this
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOUGqzVIvfI)
mixed with this
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MnyzjjSEEw)
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@ Abagond
Since you banned Randy, etc from the Trayvon thread and threatened to banish them from your blog entirely if they posted there, I waited to see if they would defy you, after all whites can do anything they wish right?
I was suprised that they obeyed.
That tells me a few things.
One, they are afraid of being banned.
Two, they WANT to be here with us, arguing to the death.
Three, as much as they protest to hate us, they can’t seem tear themselves away from our thoughts, our words and feelings.
Abagond, aren’t they the same people who speak daily of how wonderful segregation would be? Are they not realists, whatever the hell that means, who say that God the Almighty made them better, more intelligent, more human than us? Doug wakes up every morning lusting after your blog to post more “proof” of why Trayvon deserved to die.
Yet, the fact that they bowed down and listened to your demands showed me that underneath that bravado, they’re afraid of you.
Such cowards!
I had secretly hoped that maybe Bliff would defy the black man, but no…he too obeyed.
What does that say of our superior counterparts?
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^^^ It says that they want to measure their dicks with middle class, college/graduate level black men and women. They could just as easily be on WSHH or another website, but instead they feel an almost instinctive need to see if there ideology measures up by debating who they consider to be their opposing number.
And they always come up short. Always.
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@ Everyone,
Protecting your Black sons and daughters should be on everyone’s mind right now. Here is an article outlining one person’s approach that I think is well-written:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/04/20/after-trayvon-reminding-my-black-sons-to-be-careful.html
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For the attention of Bliff – From the ‘Suggestions’ thread
@Bliff
No, that’s not what I mean, because we never leeched off of the native Americans.
If you want to continue this, lets go to the Open Thread where your U.S peers will probably be able to counter your ‘logic’ more succinctly than I could but, forgive me for being forthright and downright bloody minded here but, I could have sworn that, if not for the Native Americans, you would not be celebrating Thanksgiving as your ancestors probably would not have lived to have anything to be thankful for!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We created a society and civilization the native Americans would never have created on their own.
The Native Americans taught your ancestors how to cultivate the land, how to hunt, how to live, how to survive and how were they re-payed????
It’s the blacks who are leeching off the whites, because the whites created this civilization where the blacks can live a first world lifestyle that would never have if they were back in Africa and the whites had never come to Africa.
Strange isnt it, Black Africans were torn from their lands, enslaved and brought to the U.S and you act like they flocked to your country, willingly and in droves, to reap the benefits and bleed the good old U. S of A…. dry. Have a word with yourself will you!!!!!
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One thing i really think is coming out of this Trayvon Martin murder tragedy is that social justice activists are waking up to the reality that the world they look at outside their window is not the one they see on the t.v and if they don’t do more, right-wing lunatics are going to dictate how we live because they are more active politically in Washington lobbies, PACs, and rural america. While we have been largely sitting on our hands for the last four years as Obama has sort of tried to move to the centre (Don’t get me wrong, i think he has been the most substantive, intelligent, and honest president in recent American history and probably the most intelligent and honest president in possibly the whole history of the USA).
This is to say that there is fundamental discord that progressives/liberals are looking for and the world they want. Women have been waking up to this as well – look at the birth control struggles/pre-abortion photos of the baby requiring vaginal intrusion by the doctor — struggles against state governments etc. Centre-right women i think are waking up to the facts that right-wing government in the USA has very little in mind for them except as home-care takers (no disrespect, i think this is a qualified and esteemed position but honestly, women also need to have business careers and education that is deserved of them).
The point of this post is that I believe this is the media calling the Obama supporters to really start canvassing for support and providing donations. I think the alternative as projected by the right-wing fanatics is archaic white Christian Evangelical inspired law or hyper-capitalist/corporation empowering government (both cases of which we saw with the Bush administration).
One can hypothesize that Romney will be a moderate if he gets into power, but i think that is largely underestimating the right-wing grassroots who will bandy their leverage around at all points. You know what they say – the squeaky wheel gets the grease.
.
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There definitely needs to be some answer or alternative to the wingnuts. Case in point:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-17710570
…and people thought that the New Black Panthers were ‘intimidating people into not voting’…yeah, the KKK has been doing that for over a century (and still does), and now the nazis have a lobbyist. This presidential race will be far uglier than the last one, for certain. It will be ‘interesting’…as in, “May you live in interesting times.”
Interesting, indeed.
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“i think he has been the most substantive, intelligent, and honest president in recent American history and probably the most intelligent and honest president in possibly the whole history of the USA). ”
***************
JT
Not to pick at nits, or anything but I simply have to go on record saying that I categorically disagree with the above. Anyone following idiot W Bush into office would automatically look like a super-genius by comparison!
I believe the most honest and least tainted president of the US (in recent times) was Jimmy Carter. Obama, in my opinion, is just another figurehead of a long line of puppet chief executives who take their orders from and mainly represent (as do 99.88% politicians) plutocratic interests.
His campaign’s platform was “CHANGE” and that’s exactly what the people got. A change from one war mongering republican POTUS to another war mongering democrat. Just two (fake) sides of the same coin!
Smoke and mirrors, horse and pony shows, Madison Ave, TV ads, PR – *CHANGE*
Even Lyndon Baines Johnson (LBJ) during the height of the 60’s racial unrest & upheavals managed to pass some effective legislation that ushered in favorable social changes for the little people.
Obama’s ideas of helping the people seem to focus more on the 2% at the top, than the 90% or more that I’m guessing make up the working class/middle class/poor/homeless/unemployed.
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@ Demerra,
Wow wait a minute. Did Bliff really say that white people did not leech off of Native Americans after washing up on their land, asking for their help and then taking their land and treating them like vermin to be controlled or stamped out? See that’s a huge part of where my family comes from. do.
@ JT,
Frankly, I think that this will be a test on how truly egalitarian the left is. Will they be able to see that there is a collective war to disenfranchise many for the benefit of the few? Many “leftist” people vote Libertarian and many young people support Ron Paul, but many of them don’t pay attention to his views or politics that would actually damage young people or the middle class, let alone people of color. My question is: Will they just eat each other up in a series of Oppression Olympics like lobsters in a pot?
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@ Sepultura,
People on both sides of the political spectrum throw around the nazi reference but if you actually learn about nazi politics they were ruthlessly xenophobic/racial purists/traditionalists/Misogynists/corporatists/cultural supremacists.
Whose politics do those remind you of in today’s America?
I am not saying that they are a viable option. I am saying that that fringe is very much present in today’s USA, not unlike early, middle, and late 1920’s Bavaria.
If Obama or Romney win, either party has a responsibility to address the ugly face of these right wing lunatics and their lies/hypocrisies/destructive actions and potentials. They are a threat to civil society as we know it.
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Will they just eat each other up in a series of Oppression Olympics like lobsters in a pot?
”
”
”
I have a lot of optimism for the USA. I believe that they can accomplish much to mitigate the worldwide disasters that the Republican party and white america would inflict on all. But that requires Americans to act and be more militant in their vocalizations of what is unacceptable. Moreover what the social justice platform prescribes.
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@Ace
I dont know how to link in to a few, select threads on a post so apologies for the clumsiness of this. Here is what prompted the response you commented on above. To be fair, Bliff is talking about the Black race leaching off of the white race in the U.S initially…
Charles
I think you’ll love this parody feature article:
Africans Shocked By Uncivilized Antics Of European Savages
http://www.hayibo.com/africans-shocked-by-uncivilized-antics-of-european-savages/
on Fri 20 Apr 2012 at 18:30:24 Bliff
@Charles
Africans Shocked By Uncivilized Antics Of European Savages
Yes, the whites are quite savage compared to the Africans. You would think that blacks world-wide would be planning to escape the white hell-holes they live in now, and return to civilized Mother Africa.
So the ultimate joke is on you, Charles, because I don’t think the big reverse Diaspora is going to happen. The blacks are going to continue to live in their white host countries, where they can leach off the whites. If they go back to Africa, they’ll find out what a real hell-hole is.
on Fri 20 Apr 2012 at 18:36:43 Demerera
The blacks are going to continue to live in their white host countries, where they can leach off the whites….
The so called ‘White’ host country that was originally ‘leached’ off of the native Americans. Is that what you mean?
on Fri 20 Apr 2012 at 18:37:24 Bliff
on Fri 20 Apr 2012 at 18:42:29 Bliff
@Demerera
The so called ‘White’ host country that was originally ‘leached’ off of the native Americans. Is that what you mean?
No, that’s not what I mean, because we never leeched off of the native Americans. We created a society and civilization the native Americans would never have created on their own.
It’s the blacks who are leeching off the whites, because the whites created this civilization where the blacks can live a first world lifestyle that would never have if they were back in Africa and the whites had never come to Africa.
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@Ace et al
Apologies, that reads really badly and confusingly. The best place to look at the conversation is on the Suggestions thread.
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@ JT,
I doubt Romney will address it, since his voters won’t want to. I also agree that part of the problem is that Americans aren’t standing up against unacceptable actions and statements. We seem to hide behind the 1st and 2nd Amendments and other things to sort of cover our butts, so we run around like chickens with our heads cut off whenever we’re confronted with the consequences to those freedoms.
@ Demerera,
No problem at all, I was able to read it just fine.
Wow…so not only does he think blacks leech off of white Americans (because what was slavery, right?), but he forgets that the Romans thought that same thing about the people who would eventually claim to be the leaders of the new world (Believe it or not, the Romans thought very lowly of the barbarians and hordes who would eventually become a “civilized white society”) Its hard to take the opinion of someone seriously if they honestly think they can predict the potential of civilizations (um, Mayans, Incas anyone?) through the lens of the people who did their best to erase them.
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truthbetold
I’m not surprised that you’re surprised. You reveal your biases with such comments.
The behavior which you marvel at is, at least in my case, most accurately called “respectfulness”. When you’re a guest in someone’s home, you abide by their rules.
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@ Randy
You and your prejudiced ilk have NO respect from us.
Bliff torments us daily, Doug is one step away from exploding and you, with your careful Webster vocabulary, aren’t fooling anyone.
You chose to stay away from the Trayvon thread due to the fact that you cannot bear to tear yourself away from the very people you deem inferior. A walking contradiction! I believe that it was Doug who said, ” Segregation doesn’t work”.
Indeed.
You, sir, are a coward.
Underneath that sly, slithering coolness, you’re afraid of the Black Man. Admit it, Randolph, you ENJOY being here. You obeyed him because you wish to partake in black ambience.
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@Truthbetold- Your commentary regarding the socio-political idiots are spot on!! These little cowardly ‘men’ are a waste of electrical energy, cells, and space.
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@ Truth:
I would not call it cowardice but just common sense. Randy has exactly the right attitude for a commenter. Doug1 pretty much understands it too. I doubt Bliff does.
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“”
But they can sing, dance and are good athletes! The men have an astounding amount of testosterone that explains their impulsiveness and the white mens’ smaller peckers and lower sex drives. But hey, everything is a trade off eh?
”
”
@ Herneith,
Priceless! Now i have to go back to reading. Just had to mention that I am enjoying your entry a lot!
*toggles back to Herneith’s blog while enjoying a honey covered pancake*
=D
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@ Herneith
I nearly fell over the Muppet skit for Satanforce!!!
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@ Abagond,
With all due respect, if Randy has, as you stated, “exactly the right attitude for a commenter,” I really have no idea how you can set the bar *that* low. Buddy has criticized in the same way that Doug1111 has — relying solely on one person’s “research” or a tribe of race realists’ research, to justify their points. They don’t back down. They don’t consider who they are talking to. And they don’t consider how ignorant they are to be talking race realism in the first place. The whole thing is hogwash and the swear to it like it were their bible.
Moreover, while Randy has been more measured, he hasn’t disagreed with them or corrected them in the amidst of their ridiculousness. If Randy has exactly the right attitude for a commenter then i might as well pack up because i clearly don’t have the right attitude for a commenter then. I have disagreed with them virtually every post. Because they are virtually racist every post. Including Randy.
*Gets off soap box*
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@Ace
Altohugh it is a television drama, I have recently been watching ‘Spartacus -Blood and Sand’, a depiction of life in Roman times…
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2CqtNeRK_w)
I guess I am not able to stand back and see this how it really was…. Having visited the beautiful city of Rome, looked at the Colloseum, and ‘absorbed’ the atmosphere and, being a ‘socialist’ to boot.. perhaps I am too objective….
et al…
Don’t know if anyone appreciates ‘House’ music in the same way I do but…this is a track from my early teens….
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeJxbDitNLg)
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@ JT
As a moderator I do not judge commenters by their ideology but whether they can stick to the rules.
Randy said: “When you’re a guest in someone’s home, you abide by their rules.” That is exactly right. While I agree with little of what he says, he is one of the more civil commenters. If I banned him I would pretty much have to ban most commenters.
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@Abagond
Fair. I am mistaken. Sorry.
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http://www.timesnews.net/article/9045481#.T5AkBV2xufw.twitter
“Kingsport man arrested for lining up his students, firing blank shots from gun”
…D:. I can’t imagine the teacher seriously believing that what he did was a good idea. Was there a lesson in this..because I don’t get it.
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@ Demerera,
That’s a cool show, I’ve always sort of enjoyed researching the Roman Empire, so a show like that is fun to watch.
Well, people often forget that neither the Greeks nor the Romans were particularly “enlightened” bastions of freedom and democracy.
@ DeeDee7789,
Wow…who would do that…that’s just crazy.
@ Hernieth,
Wow! That made me smile a bit.
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@ Peanut,
How?
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@Ace
That’s a cool show, I’ve always sort of enjoyed researching the Roman Empire, so a show like that is fun to watch.
I have to watch it through my fingers – blood, guts, orgies and rutting galore. In the words of Spartacus KILL THEM ALL…
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@ Demerera,
Well i could do without the orgies and rutting, but I’m fine with over the top 300 style violence in my shows, ha ha.
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@Peanut:
What the hell is going on there?
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^ Swedish artist Makode Aj Linde made a cake (with himself as the head) as a statement against female circumcision. Sweden’s minister of culture, Lena Adelsohn Liljeroth took part in slicing the cake and pictures of her doing so while smiling with a bunch of White people laughing behind her are everywhere.
There’s more information here:
http://www.racialicious.com/2012/04/18/voices-makode-aj-linde-and-that-cake/
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To Peanut:
I know abagond likes black women in general, but sometimes (you) abagond have a way of playing into these stereotypes ad making snide comments like black women are to unattractive to be raped…
I get the distinct impression, that if Abagond said that, it was strictly in a mocking tone… (EG mocking some White guys who do make that claim..)
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@ Iris,
That was disgusting. What freaks me out is that they’re laughing at it. Who in their right mind, beyond a racist, would think a “black-face style black woman being forcibly circumsized” cake would be funny? How the heck is a screaming “black face style black woman being forcibly circumcized” cake something that you would “chuckle” at while cutting it?
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Last night I watched TV…something I rarely do anymore.
I saw Zimmerman being released from court, a replay from a few days ago.
I watched his movements, his walk, the intensity of his gaze in court, the over-erectness of his stance…
Am I the only one who senses an almost insane desire to be militant coming from him? He looks…intense. Like the fellow who shot Gabby Giffords. Perhaps a few screws are missing?
Funny how only his brother has shown his face, but the dad remains hidden behind a screen. They were so afraid of showing up in court, they had a testimony via telephone. His mom made me laugh. She told a tall tale of George telling her that it was his “duty” to help out the poor Negro children because they had no one.
I wondered last night how this will turn out. My husband says an aquittal is looming followed by a riot. The thing that makes me angry is how unsympathetic everyone is towards the family.
White supremacy killed this boy.
And no one wants to own up to it.
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I want a love i can see – The Temptations
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOXdAOPp3uY)
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@ Truthbetold,
Yes – Trayvon’s murderer seems to be absolved of any guilt in his mind. You can see it through everything you described including his posture, demeanor, rationalizations etc.
Very sad.
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@ Everyone
If God were to end this world in one week, what would you do?
Any regrets? Would you try to find peace? Would you finally act out on your deepest desires?
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truthbetold,
Do you really–I mean REALLY want to know what I would do?
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I asked because I’m pissed off, again, towards my hometown’s media. Well, I never did like Western mainstream news media, but it seems like the outlet in my town is going into overdrive with their white gaze.
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I wouldn’t do anything different. The end of days is nothing special to me.
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@ abagond:
The 20th anniversary of the LA Riots is approaching on April 29th. I don’t know if you recall, but I asked you a while back about writing a post on the strained relations between Blacks and Asians. I was wondering if you still plan on writing that post. I’m eager to put my two cents in.
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@ Brothawolf
What happened..? and yes, I REALLY want to know.
@ Someguy
Nothing special? You’ve got no secret wish?
@ Peanut
I feel something juicy coming on from your ” ooooooooo-ing”!
LOL!
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I’ll go first…
I’d find my ex-boss and punch her good and hard right in her face!
Breaking her f*cki*g nose would be a plus… Ahhhhh….. Now then…
Then I’d spend my moments with my family, talking, baking bread, cooking, lighting the fireplace, praying for God’s forgiveness, ( I’m no angel….LOL!!!). Maybe I’d beat the shit outta my neighbor too while I’m at it. And then there’s that nosy old witch that lives down the road that lets her horses run free and shit all over the place…
Hmmmm….Seems like I want to hit a lot of people… I’ll work on that. You know what? Who cares? The world is ending right? Screw it…I’d hit as many folks as I can that deserve it.
Lastly I’d make love to my beloved husband, all week, three times a day to reconnect for the last time.
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http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/local/neighborhoods-south/first-grader-without-hands-wins-award-for-writing-632011/?p=0
“First-grader without hands wins penmanship award”
It is absolutely beautiful that this young child is unfazed by not having hands and is fairly independent when taking care of herself. She has a great family behind her and I am almost certain she will grow up to be a successful and wonderful adult.
@leigh204
I think it will be a great post if abagond decides to make it. http://after1989.tumblr.com/post/18040476741/are-asians-black <-A panel that happened in march on Black/Asian conflict. I wish I could have viewed it online to watch it. Seemed like it would have been interesting.
@truthbetold
I would honestly just live my life normally. Death is inevitable and I have no regrets.
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truthbetold,
Which particular God are you referring to?
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God can’t kill me I was born dead…..
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@ Randy
Black means Purity.
Purity means God.
God means the Ruler of the Land.
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@ truthbetold
In all honesty, I would just meditate and reflect on my life. If there isn’t an afterlife, then I will find peace in oblivion. If there is, then a greater adventure awaits. Either way, any indulgence in this life would be fleeting and completely unsatisfactory.
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To all responses….
Fair enough.
@ Randy
Stop acting dumb.
@ Satanforce
LOL!
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TruthbetoldI’d find my ex-boss and punch her good and hard right in her face!
Breaking her f-ing nose would be a plus… Ahhhhh….. Now then…
( I’m no angel….LOL!!!). Maybe I’d beat the sh!t outta my neighbor too while I’m at it. And then there’s that nosy old w!tch that lives down the road
Bliff Not surprised.
Why, were you the ex boss or do you identify being the kind of boss people would want to damage?
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@Demerera
Abagond keeps deleting this comment of mine.
I would love to be the kind of boss people would want to damage.
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Id want to walk through the fields and the valleys with friends/loved ones camping with them, talking with them and taking in the earth and its beauty. And i would not want to see hear or breathe anywhere near race realists and their ugly. That hate would destroy all the beauty.
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Id try to hide from people who want to punch me ( just teasing , truth)………make love as much as I could in that period…and try to avoid mob rule…..try to body surf and of course play some music
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@JT
Damn! I was hoping we could spend our last moments together.
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@ B.R.
Ben Webster’s Music for Loving comes to mind…
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Truthbetold,
Let’s just the local media is doing the usual. White accomplishments are front page. Black failures and crime are front page. Then again, I didn’t expect any different, but the latter has been the case three weeks in a row. I try to ignore it, but it’s always within eyesight somehow, someway especially at my job.
I’ll be back to further explain. I got to get back.
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Truthbetold….Ben Webster !! Great choice, I like your tastes
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B.R.
Ben Webster brings back memories of growing up in the West Village…( wink, wink)
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Abagond
Are you reading Doug’s fairytale on the Zimmerman thread?
He’s having a meltdown…
I thought he said he was a lawyer…
What kind of lawyer bases his entire premise on supposition?
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I’m back.
To answer your question, Truthbetold, I would celebrate the end, but even in death, I probably won’t find any peace.
Sorry to sound morbid and dark.
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@Peanut
I am so sorry there are coldhearted idiots out there that made a video like what you showed, above. It deeply angers me!!!!!
I’m white & actually mostly conservative, and it really pissed me off.
It is unfortunate for America that SOME people have such behaviors.
I recently read about that man who got beat & hospitalized after telling some boys to stop playing in the streets. Felt sorry for him & outraged, then found out he had made some racial slurs. Still feel for him being beat up so bad, but sounds like he sort of brought it upon himself. I can’t say violence is the correct response for sorry speech, but I suppose he learned to tame his tongue a bit better. As to why happend on the other side of the coin I don’t know – I’d heard there have been problems there before between them.
It’s messed up for people to be disrespectful or violent, but stupid is stupid, too. I can’t say that beating an innocent 50-old man in the head with a hammer & leaving him for dead is justified simply because he’s white…or a bunch of youths beating up a 70-yr-old wite man because of his race, either. People should not be punished for other people, and people should get a fair shake on things, whatever their race.
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@ Truthbetold,
Well the best part about the internet is that people can claim whatever they want to. If they fail to act or show that they are in a profession they claim (especially when they claim that profession in a convenient moment to assert authority over a subject) usually that means they’re still studying it and just exaggerated or they aren’t one at all.
Also, on your end of the world question:
I’d probably get back at every person who screwed me over in lie, only because I wasted so many years trying to pander to them and win their friendship only for them to exclude me and ruin me when it was convenient for them. I won’t hurt them, i”ll just make them cry.
Then I’d throw an end of the world party and send out a ton of facebook invites, set it in Vegas, and go out in style.
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@ Brothawolf
Peace comes to those that seek it, my love.
@ Ace
I stopped pandering to folks a looooong time ago. That’s why the ONLY friends I have are mostly family and a childhood “sister-friend”.
Invite me to the party.
I drink Gin.
LOL!
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@ truthbetold
Ah, Gin. So many memories, and a few black outs. You know, Gin was the equivalent of crack back in 19th Century England.
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Demerera:
I think intent counts less than one might often tend to presume. After all, some if not most of the worst crimes in history have been perpetrated by people who believed that they were acting justly.
For example, lynch mobs were ostensibly organized to carry out “justice”. Who here would like to revert back to a time before due process and an impartial judiciary were available?
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The above comment was intended for the Zimmerman arrest thread.
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@Randy
Who here would like to revert back to a time before due process and an impartial judiciary were available?
Hmmm. I think you have to go way back in time here and think of the Salem Witch trials which were adjudicated but by people entrenched in fear. You may think that this has no relevance in the here and now but, judging by some of the comments on here, I would beg to differ…
There is a need to bring people in from ALL areas of society, rich, poor, black, white, ‘other’ to ensure a balanced, impartial viewpoint methinks…
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Quick question everyone, anyone:
Is Jay from Philly married to a woman who goes by the name Christelyn Karazin who runs the “Beyond Black & White” website?
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I’m sorry. I mean to say if Jay from Philly knows Christelyn Karazin. I don’t know if they are married or not.
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For those trolls who love coming here to tout black on white crime statistics, do you ever concern yourselves with WHITE corporate/municipal (and war) crimes against people of color? You know, the sort of malicious purposed acts that have a knack for avoiding statistical FBI/DOJ data bases??
Crimes that cause death, permanent injury, suffering and pain – but curiously never viewed/counted as criminal acts, or ever sends the guilty parties to jail.
Case in point:
***************
The long and hard fought war against toxic racism is nearly over for the Harry Holt family, an African American family in Dickson, Tennessee whose well was poisoned by the leaky Dickson County Landfill, located just 54 feet from the family’s homestead property line. Five generations of Holt family members grew up in the rural all-black segregated community on Eno Road in Dickson County. The Holt family survived the horrors of slavery and “Jim Crow” segregation, but it may not survive the toxic terror of the deadly trichloroethylene (TCE) chemical leaked into their wells from the nearby landfill. In 2003, the Holt family and the NAACP Legal Defense and Education Fund (LDF) sued the city and county of Dickson, the state of Tennessee, and the company that dumped the TCE. And in 2008, the Natural Resources Defense Council (NRDC), Sheila Holt Orsted and her mother Beatrice Holt filed a lawsuit against Dickson City and County governments seeking cleanup of alleged water contamination.
After more than eight years of litigation, on December 7, 2011, a $5.6 million settlement agreement was finally worked out with the Dickson City and County governments on the NRDC and Holts’ suit and a $1.75 million settlement to be paid to eleven Holt family members on the family’s NAACP civil rights suit with monies from an October settlement reached with three companies that were defendants in the Holts’ NRDC case.
In response to the Holts’ demand for a personal apology from the City and County of Dickson, the settlement agreement includes the following statement:
“The county and city regret the Harry Holt family well was contaminated with TCE and the issues experienced by the Holt family.”
One would have to assume the “issues” the city and county government officials are alluding to in their statement refer to the fact that the Holt family’s well water was poisoned by a city and county owned toxic landfill and the fact that the Holt family members are sick and some have died. Harry Holt died of cancer in January 2007. His daughter, Sheila Holt Orsted is recovering from breast cancer. The county spent more than $3 million and the city almost $1.9 million on the lawsuits.
The industrial solvent TCE is widely known to be harmful to humans. A 2011 EPA study found that TCE is even more dangerous to people’s health than previously thought–causing kidney and liver cancer, lymphoma and other health problems. This new EPA study lays the groundwork to reevaluate the federal drinking-water standard for TCE: 5 parts per billion in water, and 1 microgram per cubic meter in air.
Despite the recent settlement agreement, the Holt family’s toxic nightmare on Eno Road, described in the 2007 Toxic Wastes and Race at Twenty report as the “poster child” for environmental racism, is not yet over. Nor is their quest for environmental justice complete since the state of Tennessee, a defendant in the Holts’ civil rights case, has not worked out a settlement. The case is scheduled to go to trial next year.
end of excerpt
*******************
– the rest of the article is here:
http://www.racismreview.com/blog/2012/04/22/earth-day-2012-toxic-environmental-racism-in-tennessee-threatens-family/
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@ Abagond
I love your banner picture!
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No. As far as I know, Jay from Philly is an unrelated identity from Karazin’s husband.
My bad. Just noticed the above. Check these: But I must warn you, the comments on that IRR site are ion the order of what one would see on a race realist blog.
http://www.beyondblackwhite.com/jay-from-philly-e-kicks-dr-goddess-off-her-cloud-of-ignorance/
http://www.beyondblackwhite.com/jay-from-phillys-second-dr-goddess-response-time-for-strong-coffeetalk/
You may probably see someone familiar on those LiveFyre posts.
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@darqbeauty
I love your banner picture!
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@Satanforce
Ah-ha.
It’s no wonder he would write to a black female blogger with the same problem with black men as he does.
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Well, she does have a book coming out….
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@ Satanforce
Native to where? Earth? lol You need to hush!
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I think the banner’s beautiful.
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All I’m saying is that he could have had used a more fairer, geometric profile, that would have more innate appeal. For example:
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Well. the banner just has a kinda, ummm. primitive, like kinda …simian “feel” about it.
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According to the theory of evolution don’t we all have a “simian” feel to us, so to speak? You know. I can’t with your Devil’s Advocate ass tonight. I’m signing off! lol
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You just can’t handle the truth!!!
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I wouldn’t shock me if Jay was married to a black woman and came here to spew hatred. I’ve said many times that the racists who come here are probably the guys we sit with at work, live next to and, gulp, are in our family.
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truthbetold,
Assuming that you meant the Christian God were to end the world in a week, perhaps you might turn towards piety rather than vengeance. Allow me to offer some suggestions from the Bible to help you guide your fellow men and women through their final days:
When a man is being threatened with gang rape, give them your virginal daughter to rape instead.
Judges 19:3:22
While they were enjoying themselves, a crowd of troublemakers from the town surrounded the house. They began beating at the door and shouting to the old man, “Bring out the man who is staying with you so we can have sex with him.”
The old man stepped outside to talk to them. “No, my brothers, don’t do such an evil thing. For this man is a guest in my house, and such a thing would be shameful. Here, take my virgin daughter and this man’s concubine. I will bring them out to you, and you can abuse them and do whatever you like. But don’t do such a shameful thing to this man.”
If you know women who are not utterly obedient to their husbands, point out the following passages:
Ephesians 5:22
“Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything”
1Timothy 2:12
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
Finally, if you know of people who protest against slavery, remind them of the following:
1 Peter 2:18:
“Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh.”
1 Timothy 6:1
“All slaves should show full respect for their masters so they will not bring shame on the name of God and his teaching.”
Ephesians 6:5-7
“Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart. Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not people,”
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@ Truthbetold,
They are all the same bigot. You don’t need to distinguish between them because they hold the same fundamentally deranged delusions about themself and the world and they take it to sociopathic levels.
The best thing that we can do is ignore them because they feed off of attention. Why else would they be here afterall?
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A Complete Guide to ‘Hipster Racism’
Hipster Racism – “It’s the gentler, more clueless, and more insidious cousin of a hick in a hood; the domain of educated, middle-class white people who believe that not wanting to be racist makes it okay for them to be totally racist.”
….D: well I guess each generation gets a sub-type of racism in a way. Interesting article. Didn’t know there was a term for that sort of racism.
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Hmmmmm….
All the clever ways of not saying what you really want.
White racists on this blog:
Are you exhausted by your lack of honesty?
You claim to want segregation but alas, you are here. DAILY.
Do you feel impending doom that one day (soon) IT will happen?
What will you do when the tides change?
Lakotas are renouncing their American citizenship ( silly, since this was, is and always be their country) and offering Lakota citizenship to ANYONE who will join them. Think about all the angry, fed up brown, yellow and blacks who will ponder this…Hmmmmm….This should cause a wave of newfound paranoia amongst the “palefaces”, no?
I feel sorry for you, all of you.
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@ leigh
I have a guest post lined up for that but I cannot say when it will appear.
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@truthbetold
You’ve posed the africanized version of the leading question, “Have you quit beating your wife yet?”
Only in your case, you’ve address a list of questions to “White racists on this blog” with the implication that anyone who takes exception must be a “white racist”. That’s childish.
However, there will be no great “IT” of “impending doom” from “all the angry, fed up brown, yellow and blacks”. Your projecting your own bigotry on to others and assuming others share it. They don’t. In fact, where those “brown, yellow and blacks” exist in large numbers the anger and frustration is often against one another. That’s no great divide and conquer conspiracy. It’s simply that blacks can’t get along with anyone. Even each other.
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@truthbetold
I’m sure the prospects of America’s fall makes you at least half as gleeful as me, but lets be real: Black America is not ready for America’s collapse because we’ve wasted 50 years trying to get these assholes to like us with anti-racism. We cannot change the hearts of others, we can only strive to have enough power to make those feeling irrelevant to our well-being.
Anti-racism is a farce, an attempt to save the souls of White people through sacrificing our own agency, leaving us vulnerable to their whims. Is it any wonder that disparities exist along the color-line when we place our lives in the hands of people who have always hated us?
When America falls, the lowest dregs of the White populace will destroy us if we don’t prepare to become self-reliant and well defended. Otherwise, they will drag us down with them.
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truthbetold,
My desire is to, in some very small way, help usher in a more humane, just, and reasonable world.
If those scriptural passages have not been faithfully transcribed, I would welcome your corrections.
And I would invite you or anyone else to point out a single bigoted belief which I’ve ever advocated.
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@ Randy
I do not have the time or patience to go through your gazillion comments and pick out the smoking racist guns. If I see one I will tell you.
But in general your point of view is that American society is more or less just – you are a big believer in the Bootstrap Myth, for example – so you think there must be something wrong with black people. That is by definition racist.
Gorbachev, and probably most White Americans, see that as a common sense conclusion. But given the country’s violent, skinhead past it is not.
Whites do not experience racism because it is not directed at them, so they think racism is dead, but black people do experience it in unmistakable ways. To think that 40 million people are just imagining this stuff goes against all common sense.
It is a matter of record that whites are a poor judge of racism: we have the Gallup polls to prove it:
– In 1962, 85% of whites thought that black children in their community had just as good a chance of getting a good education as white children.
– In 1969 nearly half of all whites (45%) believed that blacks had a better chance getting a good-paying job than they did.
This was back in the 1960s, which most whites now agree was a racist time. But if whites were so bad at seeing it then, they are probably bad at seeing it now.
More:
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abagond
“so you think there must be something wrong with black people. That is by definition racist. “
On the other hand, you assume that any shortcomings by blacks must be the fault of whites. That is by definition racist.
Also, you can’t use polls to prove your point. Because sharina doesn’t like them. 🙂
But for the sake of argument, I’ll indulge you. If as you claim whites were wrong in the 1960’s then what makes you think they’re right about the 1960’s now? You can’t have it both ways. You’re simply cherry picking the results you like.
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@ Duck
When it comes to racism I believe what black people say, not what white people say. Anyone with common sense would do the same.
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abagond
When it comes to racism I believe what black people say, not what white people say.
Not really. You just believe the blacks who agree with you. The ones you don’t are called “Uncle Toms”.
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@ Duck
You know exactly what I mean but just want to pick at it for your own amusement.
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@abagond
But was I wrong?
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@ abagond:
That’s fine with me. I look forward to reading this particular post. 😀
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leigh
Let me guess. Your guest post is going to say that any problems between blacks and asians is really the fault of white people. You’re so predictable.
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@duckduckgoose:
And your reading comprehension is abysmal. I never stated I sent in a guest post. Learn to read before you begin making accusations.
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Has anyone on this thread who have not had any direct contact with a racist in their life? I’m curious: How old were you and what happened when you realized the color of your skin was an “issue”?
I was about 6-years-old. I went to the grocery store with my grandmother ( I was spending two weeks during the summer with her). My grandmother is a very, very fair skinned multiiracial woman, but I am brown skinned. My grandmother loved to shop at Kroger’s and she would go there almost every other day. We came to the cashier counter and the woman, who was white, was familiar with seeing my grandmother come in. They were familiar with each other.
The woman asked on seeing me, “Who’s little black girl is that?”
My grandmother said,”She’s my grandchild.”
“But she’s a black! You have black grandchildren! I don’t think I would like it much if one of my children had a black!”
“I’m black too!”
The woman looked shock and said, ” All this time I thought you was my kind!”
My grandmother left her things and never went back to Kroger’s again.
I remember crying and my grandmother crying. I kept asking my grandmother if she wanted me because I was a black. She didn’t answer, just burst into tears and said she was sorry. I don’t think she knew what to say or how to explain. The woman said “She’s a black” like I was some disgusting nasty thing. I never for got that. It’s burned into my brain.
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For multiracial people, sometimes the racial issue might be misinterpreted as a cultural one. You might assume that the difference was more a cultural one rather than one of race. But after a while you figure out the reason for the behavior was more racial than cultural.
For example, if you “knew” your grandparents objected to your parents’ marriage, even at 3-4 years of age, it might take a few years later before you understand which grandparents objected for cultural reasons, and which objected for racial reasons.
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@ Jefe
What are you talking about? My grandparents didn’t object to my parents’ marriage! How in the world did you get that conclusion from what I wrote? Are you serious?
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My gradmother didn’t cry because she was upset about having a black grandchild. She married a black man. She cried because she didn’t know how to explain race to a six year old. She later told me that people even thought my father and aunt didn’t belong to her because they took more of my grandfather’s skin tone. She just didn’t think her grandkids would have to experience it. Interesting that you thought my grandmother had the problem and not the woman calling me “a black” and saying she thought my grandmother was “her kind”.
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Anyone seen Avengers Assemble yet??
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^^^
** Hmm… Wondering if there’s something uniquely magnetic about this blog that attracts certain groups of people with blatant “reading comprehension” (or uncontrollable imaginations) issues??? **
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Hey Cleonette : Short and sweet:
5 years old I experienced my 1st contact w/ outright racism in which a bucket of water was thrown on me by a white neighbor when I playing on the porch minding my own buisness. (Over the years, this woman came to love me like a grandchild, and I loved her, but she suffered from something that many seem to then and today: The belief that I and my parents were Special Negroes.
Later that summer: Christian summer camp: White mom slapped her son for kissing me on cheek. (He was my buddy, but after that incident, I never saw him again)
That summer, my parents sat me down and commenced “the talk”.
Get this:
I went to an all-girls school during junior high on scholarship, (won a state-wide competition) and was the only brown thing in the building. I remember a few girls surprised that I didn’t emit a foul odor! For some reason, they expected black people to stink. This is the 80’s-Good Lawd!
I am now in my 30’s, and since those days, I have had countless overt and covert racial experiences from physical assaults to simple nasty looks.
I’ve experienced contempt and disdain and rude remarks while shopping, at university, on vacation (internationally and nationally), and in my own neighborhood. I have been called a “pretty lil colored gal, a pretty lil negra, a dumb ni66er, a thoroughbred negress, and so many more and I’m not that old!)I’ve been in an interracial marriage and experienced extreme racism from my ex-husband’s family. Not against interracial relationships-but, i’m done. Black man for me please!
Saddest experiences:Expressed internalized racism from loved ones.
Mom’s side of family very light, Dad’s side the most beautiful blue-black, and me, just plain old light brown. I remember one day at a family reunion how nasty my father’s family spoke of my mom (this no longer occurs) but the bulk of their complaints were based on thier false idea that she believed she was “better” than them simply b/c of her hue-I believe I was @ 8 years of age.
Around that age I started to believe that I just wasn’t pretty enough, good enough, smart enough, you name it-I didn’t have it-in my mind, LOL!
Everytime friends from my grandma’s neighborhood or even family were around they would say, “Don’t you wish you were light and pretty like your mom? Well, at least you got that long hair ,but oooh child, it’s so thick and nappy too bad you didn’t get your Dad’s hair.” Even the hairdresser would charge my mom extra b/c she stated it was just “too difficult”.
So, while dad was considered “too dark” by family, he had “good hair”, and mom was bright with acceptable features, but wore her short somewhat thin lackluster fine hair in a TWA, I just didn’t know where I fit in.
Girl, I just went through it!!! For a while, I sort of felt like Celie from Color Purple.
But, my saving grace was my Dad. He is awesome and I just can’t imagine the road I would have taken without his love, support, and guidance. To him, I AM the smartest and ‘the most beautifulest thing in the world’!
2012-Natural haired, confident, couldn’t give a flying you know what if anyone doesn’t like me, know who I am, where I come from, where my people come from, and feeling guoood in my skin! But, of course, somedays are better than others =)
Thanks for sharing your story Cleonette!!! Hugs to my sista’s of all hues!!
Cheers Everybody! hope this works-its a great soul train clip/mix of “Papa was a Rolling Stone” You will love it. And if you don’t-You ain’t got no soul. Peace, love, and soul!
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@Matari
^^^
** Hmm… Wondering if there’s something uniquely magnetic about this blog that attracts certain groups of people with blatant “reading comprehension” (or uncontrollable imaginations) issues??? **
Was that for me?
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@ the world we live in
Thanks for sharing! Your story reminded me of my math teacher in Jr. high. She was the first black person at the college she attended. She said her roommate stared at her while she got dressed so intently that she thought she was a lesbian. She said finally she got fed up and asked her what her problem was. The girl replied that she was looking for her tail. We didn’t believe her. We were like 13 and we didn’t think anyone could be that dumb to think black people had tails. Boy were we wrong!
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@ Cleonette and the world we live in
I loved reading your stories. With your permission I would like to put them in a separate thread so other people can read them and share their own stories. On this thread I would ban white racists like Duck, Randy, Bliff, etc.
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This blog attracts the Aroused Racist, (I like that description so I’m going to use it from now on) for a number of reasons:
Educated blacks and coloureds are an oxymoron to the racist white mind. Coming here is simply mind-blowing. And addictive, right Randy?
We say it like it is. Another “black” trait. We don’t need to hide under the guise of good, ole fashioned Puritan beliefs. For the white racist, that too is considered “exotic”.
We’re not impressed with white skin. Palefaces take note: We coloureds don’t envy you in ANY fashion. It’s you who envies our culture, after all why else are you here?
We don’t give a damn about your house, money, education….are you listening Douglas?????…..to us you are the epitome of a charity case. Without the work of my ancestors, African and Lakota, you’d perish. YOU are the true benefactors of welfare.
Somewhere deep down, you know that what we say, all of us, all over the globe, is true. Your nagging conscience becomes a complusion on this blog.
You can be eradicated easily by one sperm or ova. pooof!!!! You’re gone. That, my racist foes, is true POWER.
Lastly, just as The Great Spirit created the winds, air, earth and every crawling insect, you too have a purpose.
To be antagonists.
Every species NEEDS an adversary…lion and hyena, bird and worm, whites and everyone else. ( including your own kind. How sick)
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@ Abagond
Thanks! Sure you can use my story and I think it would be great for people to be able to share their youngest experience with racism without it being analyzed by the likes of those humans.
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@ Abagond,
Would you mind if I shared my experience too? If you would rather just hear from the black people on this site that is perfectly understandable, I don’t want to hijack or impose.
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Abagond, I think that is a WONDERFUL idea. A place where we can share our experiences without being discounted by the resident trolls. Who are quick to embrace racist ideas yet tell us that there is no racism. I would love to contribute to that thread.
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@Abagond
Can’t wait for that thread :D.
@Ace
I’m sure Abagond won’t mind if experiences by anyone regardless of race are included. Right Abagond?
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@ Ace, I’m sure Abagond wouldn’t mind in the least. 🙂
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@ Ace
I would love to hear your experience personally. My friend Sarah says her earliest experience was being the only white person at her school when she was about 6. She said it was horrible as a child but she doesn’t count it as being racist but more towards her being different. She said she didn’t know what racism was until her sister started dating a black guy and her grandparents went bananas. She said she was about 15 and her sister was 19 and in college.
I told her to create an account so she could speak on it herself but she said that she was more of an observatory learner in racial discussions and she didn’t want her ignorance to certain topics to read negatively.
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@Randy
The scriptures are true, within context, and it is difficult truth that we don’t know all the details about. Being pour or “down-&-out” is difficult. Humbling oneself in a tough situation – especially a humiliating one – is also hard. Having faith that God is somehow in control & a Christian’s motivation…is REALLY hard in bleak times. The biblical Jacob as an endentured servant, Joseph in Egypt, enslaved, Israel enslaved for hundreds of years before being faced with Moses telling them it’s gouing to get better now, etc. can be interesting food for thought.
What happened to Joseph in prison, among Egyptians who thought “his kind” were lowly & inferior? – in prison, not a good place for a young man not liked because of his race. Yet, he acknowledged God & confessed that what his brothers had meant for evil, God meant for good. God had it all in control, and they didn’t have to fight their way out of Egypt, ever. Being humbled & perfected in character fit for becoming leaders & rulers…hurts. It doesn’t mean everyone did right; but, if people make the right responses to adversity, God can use that…and use it BIG. People have remembered Joseph (& Job) for thousands of years – even longer than most other people ever born.
The bible’s Moses was said to be the meekest (humblest) man in all the earth. When his brother (high priest) & sister (prophetess) complained against him, the bible says, “and the LORD heard it.” [Oh my. Some of us may remember as kids when…”mom heard it”…or…”dad heard it.”] Yet, God had given Moses more authority since Moses had turned more yielded to God than anyone else. God also had allowed Joseph to be put under “more authority” by others, before advancing him.
A scripture somewhere says that
“…the eyes of the LORD roam back & forth throughout the earth, seeking those whose hearts are completely toward Him, that He may strongly support them.”
I’m not saying racism is good, but what people do with the situation is between them & God, not just their fellow man. If I didn’t believe that, I’d be in prison by now or living secretly, somewhere, not due to any offenses by minorities, but by other whites, whether because of things at work, being male, also due to being poor (& homeless at some point years ago, for doing right instead of wrong). I’ve been wronged by blacks before – even due to racism, but not so that I believed all blacks were racist, (because I’d learned they were not all racist, years prior). In my worst of times, when I didn’t do some bad things, it turned out to be for the good.
BTW, the bootstraps thing is indeed a myth. Sometimes, there is a place so low that you cannot pull yourself up from. Then, you need God or somebody to help. Being there doesn’t meant you are inferior. It doesn’t necessarily mean you are bad. It doesn’t mean God hates you or your people. It doesn’t mean God doesn’t have something awesomely good being made ready for you…to walk right into…if you can somehow keep going the right ways & trusting God. BTW, there IS a God. Too many things that happened over the years convince me of it: at work, at church, among family, homeless, in legal matters, etc.
I have never, ever, heard in all my years the volume of racist comments as I have heard here. I know there are some racist white people, but I honestly don’t see the disposition to be any different here by non-whites, often times. How can anyone convince a racist (or anyone) to stop their racism…by talking like a racist? It will only fuel more racist indignation. To say & act in the very same attitude, but to not see it as racism simply because it is thought of as “deserved” or a “right” due to past insults & wrongs — what does THAT have to do with it? Racism is racism. Feeling justified in it doesn’t make it NOT racism, right, and it doesn’t make the results of it better. IMO, it’s like the child who cusses, gets in trouble for it by the older sibling, then sees the older sibling do the exact same thing — “Ummm, she said it, so why can’t I?”
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@ Abagond: No problemo! =)
@ Cleonette: LOL! I’ve heard the ‘tail’ story before unfortunately..WTH is wrong w/ people! My dearest friend, who is now deceased, would be socially described as a Blasian and lived in Seoul until ten years of age. She would tell me horrible stories of adults and children attempting to see her ‘tail’. Poor thing, she would arise every morning searching for this unwanted appendage, petrified it would jut forth at any moment. She and her mom were completely ostracized to the point of relocation; but if it were not for that, I would have never met my sister from another mother. Over wine and good music we regularly spoke, cried, and laughed of the difficulties or the consequences of living in a racialized society, and you know what, it wasn’t easy for her either. Funny, she spoke and mainly dined on Korean foods, but she self-identified as Black.
We had a motley little crew of friends: Weird and awkward black girl (me at the time), badass fishnet stocking wearing Blasian friend, a transgender 6 foot black man, gorgeous and outspoken Nigerian med student, and a rotund faboliscious Jewish drag queen! Each and every one of us had a story to tell that revolved around systems of power (race, class, gender, sexuality, religion, able-bodiness) and I am so thankful I had an opportunity to listen. Of this motley crew, only two soldiers remain:The great Dr. and me. Rest in peace my beloveds.
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Demerera
No. It was related to a couple of comments somewhere above yours. You should be able to spot them.
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Ace,
I would love to hear your story. =)
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@ Truthbetold
You are slayin’ ’em! Wow!!
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Just in a 70’s funk mood today: http://youtu.be/eVoKjbzEh3c
I’m ready for a Family Reunion after listening and watching that one!!!
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Cleonette,
The earliest encounter I can remember clearly was when I was at a conference in Chicago in 1996. I was a member of a national organization for high school Health Occupation Students of America (HOSA). Every year there were competitions for various categories concerning the health field. It starts at the district level, then state, and then national. I entered for the extemporaneous health poster category because of my talent for drawing. I won 1st place in district, and 2nd place in state, and thus I was qualified to compete in the nationals which, needless to say, was exciting. It was my first time visiting the Windy City which wasn’t so windy at the time.
Anyway, the night before the last night in Chicago, there was a dance. I danced with a group of white girls for a brief moment. After words I moved on and rested a bit, when one white girl told me that another white girl told me to “Stay in my own race.”
I didn’t know she said that at the time because the music was blasting. After that, I felt confused and a little offended. (I was way more naive about racism when I was a teen.) I didn’t let it bother me much and tried to enjoy myself during my remaining time.
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Ace,
I want to read it myself.
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Abagond:
I wouldn’t agree that bootstrapping implies racism. Quite the opposite. A real racist would likely think that black folks are, as a group, genetically limited in their ability to bootstrap. I don’t hold this opinion.
My belief in “bootstrapping” comes from 2 sources:
1. I married a bootstrapper whose family and social circle is almost exclusively comprised of immigrant bootstrappers.
2. There’s no real other alternative. I’ve called this the “Agency Problem” which is probably more accurately titled, “The Agency Well”.
Black folks undoubtedly got a raw deal with slavery, Jim Crow, and poorly-structured disincentivizing “Big Society” social programs which created vast dependencies. How does a group of people escape such a situation? If anyone cares, I’ll expand on this idea and the challenges it presents.
Abagond:
I can’t speak for anyone else, but allow me to suggest that the types of white folks you’re referring to don’t necessarily believe that racism is non-existent, but rather that it no longer presents to nearly the degree as to limit one’s educational, civic, and career opportunities that it once did (aka “The black president argument”)
Abagond:
You make a good point, but the uncertainty cuts both ways. Even if racism were 100% eliminated at the current moment, you could accurately offer the same claim.
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William Noack,
I’ve come to a place where I have difficulty reconciling the faith I grew up with and the humane values which I believe correspond to the best in man. However, I do recognize that some people find great solace in faith and wish them the best.
I think you make a valid point about the pattern of prejudice and counter-prejudice perpetuating grievances. How might this cycle be broken?
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This Blog Attracts The Aroused Racist
Yes, a fine array of one armed bandits! A day without lambasting the negroes is like a day without sunshine or a quart of liquor for these beauts!
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@ Ace
I will be doing that thread and will allow all people of colour to comment.
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@ Abagond,
Thank you so much for that. I am interested in seeing the many different experiences people have had with racism.
@ Randy,
I grew up in a family that takes the point of view that the “agency” problem is in itself a myth. Yes we are people of color and we are not considered “black”, but we still had to deal with a lot of these issues. Black people are not a people dependent on the system. Until very recently, the system was the biggest offender towards them. They had to learn to make it without a system behind them, and many still do. I don’t think there’s a problem with a lack of hard working black people. I do think, however, that black people have been scapegoated into a position that these hard working people are ignored in favor on focusing on the few. If you can present an “other” as hogging the resources you want to cut, then you have people (even those who also benifit from those resources) willing to help you cut it just to take it from the “unworthy”. Look at welfare. It was presented as a problem of black dependency, with the lie about the “welfare queen” that grew into a stereotype. Even though more white people get welfare (as is their right. In my opinion if someone needs help, they shouldn’t be shamed into starvation just to avoid taking aid) they were willing to see it as a black problem instead of looking at why people were trying to cut the program in the first place.
@ William, and Randy (based on your question of the “cycle”)
Admirable but no.
The black people have never sat with their hand out demanding help from whites or God. Just asking for the respect and equality that would allow them the same opportunities isn’t the same as needing God to help them. They know God doesn’t hate their people (why would they exist if God hated them?) but they want some of that grace to be shown by the people who they associate with everyday. I am a Christian, and I was taught to value people by the strength of their person, not on what they look like, or where they are from.
It is not the onus of the victims of racism to hold the hand of the people who constantly insult and demean them. You cannot tell a rape victim to watch how she talks to the man who teases her about her rape. You have to understand that by lecturing the people here who deal with it everyday, your throwing out a “tone argument”. The truth is is that black people, like other people of color like myself, have often been told we should always have a good attitude, even while the racists smile and insult us. that’s not fair. No one seems to be willing to tell the racist to keep his mouth shut or talk respectfully to black people here, so why should they have to watch how they respond? There is no “little sibling” looking up and wondering why he can’t do what his big sibling does. No one should ever look at racism and “want” to do it. People have had along time to know that black face isn’t cute, or that saying racist things upset people. They shouldn’t have to have the same thing constantly explained to them as if black people’s (and people of color’s) lives are somehow revolved around being an educational moment for them. It’s often too painful to relive (imagine being told something’s wrong with you purely based on your skin or genetics all of your life) once, let alone every time another white person demands you educate them on why they should be “moved” to show some decency towards you. People here are just fed up with dealing with the same guys who come here, saying horrible things about black people (and by extension other ethnic minorities) and then expect to be treated like welcome guests.
A (in my opinion) more appropriate analogy than your siblings one would be:
If you stepped on someone’s foot, and they yell out, do you apologize and pull your foot away, or do you grind your foot in deeper and then pretend your not doing anything? And if they finally yell at you to move your foot, are you entitled to feel hurt by their tone when you spent the past few minutes grinding their foot and causing their pain? Would you not question the logic of the person who thinks its okay to grind their foot into someone else s, keep stamping their foot, and then demanding the other person be “pleasant” in asking them to move it?
And on the “cycle”:
We have to remember that there is no equal starting ground here. It wasn’t a case of “Blacks did something first, so we took them and enslaved them for hundreds of years and enforced Jim Crow, and now they’re doing exactly the same back to us.” That just didn’t happen. The same with other people of color. Black people do not seem to have some overwhelming interest in returning the “favor”, they just want to be able to live as safe, equal, free citizens in the country they grew up in.
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@ Ace
Excellent explanation, as usual.
But to these…ahem…humans….it will go over their heads for one simple reason:
They hate us.
And hate has no logic.
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@ Abagond
I’m glad you banned the resident racists from the First Experience thread. Reading all the comments are hard and brings back a lot of memories. Thanks.
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Abagond,
Just finished reading the comments on Genevive Nnaija and Omotola and i LOL…seems like my brothas and sistas from Africa did not get that this is YOUR blog and neither of these actresses personal blogs.
Why do Africans feel safe to leave their numbers on the internet? Dunno why. Maybe we don’t understand internet fraud or we dont think anyone would want to steal from us. It was funny, made my night!
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Let me clarify my comments from yesterday:
My beloved Group of Friends:
As a youngster growing up in Seoul, my “Blasian” best friend self-identified as ‘Black’ to the social and economic detriment of her family; And, in the US, in a time when Tiger Woods and others were quantifying each allele and haploid group to deflect any of the negative social connotations associated with ‘blackness’, she legally and socially identified as ‘Black’. Personally, at the time, I found this odd and believed she was betraying half of her roots. With the passing of time however, our relationship deepened and thus my understanding and my respect behind her choice grew immensely and to this day, remains solid.
I met the ‘motley crew’ when working w/ an HIV/AIDS non-profit back in mid-90’s. “Blasian” was a phenomenally talented, creative, and intelligent woman who would rock a Mohawk, bald head, bleach blonde, or whatever she felt like, and this is what I admired about her! As for myself, if you’ve read my ‘snapshot’ experience w/ racism, I was rockin’ a shaved head at the time, LOL!! (Still couldn’t keep those old white men away from me!)
Main rationale for mentioning friends:
1) Each and every one of us was detrimentally affected to varying degrees by ‘cultural’ hegemony.
2) Their premature deaths could have been delayed or prevented if not for cultural hegemony.
* Blasian: piss poor insurance; diagnosed w/ rare disorder; insurance would not approve required medical care needed to save her life.
*Jewish Draq Queen: Victim of Domestic Abuse at the hands of his on the down low partner (who so happened to be white and married w/ child) . (Law enforcement at the time didn’t take LGBT domestic violence seriously at the time)
* Transgender: Stigma and $. Back in the day, HIV/AIDS Rx was $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
And, finally, my husband and I are seperated and not divorced; however, the racism I experienced with his family was highly refined and covert. Invited to all events, gifts exchanged…….but there was always distance and coldness. Once families began to grow, and children began to speak, the ugliness behind the scenes was brought to light. I know my husband is deeply in love w/ me and I still love him, and I know he ‘gets it’ as best as he can, but unfortunately for him, his level of understanding is deeply inadequate (and he was one of the ‘aware ones’), family unity seems to be of greater importance to my family than his, and quite frankly, I’m done teaching folks basic humanity.
I am not against inter-racial relationships b/c I do not believe in race, but I do believe their are real consequences to these fake categories we call race. So, given that, my 1st preference is certainly ‘Black’ men and after that any man of color, but I truly am done with “whiteness” as a life partner. To take this journey with me, you’ve got to know where I come from, what I’m going through, and where I and the collective we are trying to go.
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Ace,
Here is what I mean by the “Agency Problem”:
Do people have individual agency, and if so, how much?
For example: if one argues that social pathologies in the black community (such as the low on-time HS graduation rate, greater likelihood of student misbehavior in poor schools, and high out-of-wedlock birth rate) is solely the result of slavery / Jim Crow, then you are stating that people lack individual agency.
This is a common assertion in posts and comments, and criticisms of it are denounced as “blaming the victim”.
If you hold this view, then such powerless people (who “can’t help it”) will lack the capacity to better their circumstances on their own. If you hold this view, then you ought to also be arguing that the only way to fix it is to enforce draconian contraception and educational laws which deprive people of their individual liberty if they don’t conform to a high standard.
If people are powerless (and can’t be expected to help themselves), then the only way to support them is by force. If you find such a use of force to be odious (as I would), then you can’t also argue that people are powerless in their circumstances, unless you’re fine with them being doomed to suffering in perpetuity.
Well, are people powerless or aren’t they? If you decide that people aren’t entirely powerless, then one has to have the moral courage to hold them accountable for their circumstances. You can’t have it both ways.
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@ Abagond
Since you banned the resident racists from commenting on the First Experiences thread, have you noticed how silent they are on the other threads?
Except Doug. He’s crazy.
It’s as if they cannot antagonize us, there’s no need to comment.
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@ Randy,
The “social pathologies” aren’t even really true to the level people make them. These”pathologies” exist in other races but since there’s no reason to use them against those people, no one wants to acknowledge them.
The fact of the matter is, Jim Crow society didn’t end till the late ’60s, which is within many people’s lifetimes. Despite this, blacks have the second highest rate of upward mobility out of all ethnic groups in the United States. Even with that fact, acknowledging that being kept from being allowed to accumulate wealth and other effects that Jim Crow style legislation caused is not admitting that black people aren’t in charge of their own future. It’s taking responsibility for the past and allowing them to pursue a future independent from what white people (the majority in this country) think their race is capable of. If it were about individual accountability, Jim Crow wouldn’t have existed, they would have been allowed to rise up on their own accord.
I am a firm believer that personal responsibility is an important part of growing up. But the problem is that we cannot ignore the affect society has on people who are regularly told who they are, what they can be, and what their future will be purely based on their skin color. For example, yeah in my family we worked our way up the ladder hard, no government aid. However, we’ve had many people who’ve decided that we went against what non-white people should be able to do, and tried to keep us from getting there. A student who is black can apply for a job because they want to work through college. They’ve had no government help, no special aid. That’s their own “agency” at work. But when the person evaluating them sees them and thinks, “He’s black, affirmative action hire, next.” that has an affect on his life, just as much as if he himself just decided he wasn’t going to work for himself.
“Agency” only goes so far before you have to understand that there are barriers to work through that your “agency” wont help. I think that the best way to go about it would be to consider that in any real life situation, you have to think in a balanced way about these things. Yes, personal responsibility and hard work should be a tenant of every person. That trait has never been an exclusively white one, especially in the U.S. But you have to also realize that racism still has an affect on people’s lives and gives them a different set of opportunities than others. Look at the “Brown Eyed, Blue Eyed” situation. The kids who were discriminated against for having a certain eye color became depressed, angry, the kids who got to do the discriminating became entitled and cruel.
If you view blacks through the “pathologies”, you aren’t holding people accountable for their circumstances. Your holding them accountable for their race, and the qualities you’ve assumed fall within that group. There is a huge difference.
If you really believed that black people had their own individual circumstance and should be held accountable for them, you wouldn’t agree with ideas or policies that put them into the same box and resist any attempt for them to climb out of it.
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@ Truthbetold,
That’s an interesting observation.
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Just went through the “first white racist experience” post and let me tell you, I just to puke. Abagond, you’ll pay for this. For every goddam kumbaya. “woe is me!!”, “white people are so mean ” post, I want too see some half naked white women.
I thought I was the only one who knew that Sophia Loren is the most beautiful woman on earth (with Helen Mirren coming a close second), but you are disappointing me Abagond. Disappointing me very much. You have too better.
And if not naked white women, then naked black women. With big ole titties, and something like, “top 10 blackest areolas” (I nominate Jada Fire for number 1).
Don’t let this happen again.
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@truthbetold I commented on something. But he didn’t ban all the racists because after all the people who aren’t white were allowed, and alot of them are racists. The simple fact of doing that is fine, but people shouldn’t then get shots in while our gloves are down. Not on the side of good that is ……as yoda would say.
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also if he was really fair then do a post on “what was your first experience with black racism” ……….because lets face it that’s why were all here on this blog , black and white. Because something pissed us off. But you need a fair , honest, balanced, blunt, discussion about race. and that doesn’t happen in any forum. In fact attorney general Eric holder called white people cowards that were afraid of that frank discussion, well here I am to have one with whoever wants it.
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@ Dave,
This blog is not for YOU.
To you, fair and balanced is: black people do this. Black people are that.
You aren’t interested in a fair balanced look at race, you are a racist. You don’t get to make demands over what you are included in when you’ve proven previously that you can’t be trusted to treat the subjects respectfully. Why would you be allowed to comment in a thread about personal experiences that have truly hurt people? So that you can say some racist statement about all black people, or twist the knife?
The fact is that people who are sharing their life experiences about racism don’t need you trolling in there, telling them what to feel, showing videos of “black violence” or doing something else needlessly rude or cruel to justify the horrible crap they’ve been through.
You should use that thread like a learning experience of what racism does to people, and how no one is “imagining” it. How no one’s “earned” it.
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@ Dave
In a sense that thread is not balanced, it is just one side of the story. I understand that. But I also understand, more than you ever will, that that side is constantly being discredited and silenced. Therefore I must ban whites from it.
White people would get ten times more out of this blog if they dropped the urge to defend whiteness and just LISTENED.
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@ Satanforce
I have not done the “top 10 blackest areolas” yet. Excellent suggestion. Thanks.
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I meant biggest areolas. Sorry about that (and my mis-spellings. I’m a bit high right now.)
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To Satanforce:
I want too see some half naked white women.
The French Riviera is lovely this time of year.. ok well in another month:
http://www.spike.com/video-clips/zuhaxf/french-riviera-beaches-antibes-143-5
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Thank you, Uncle Milton, for sending me a video that is unavailable in Jamaica. (Sobs to self softly while reading the captions)
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I’d say something to Dave, but Abagond and Ace pretty much nailed it. Dave, this blog isn’t for you, nor will it be tailored to fit your special sensibilities.
Reading the white racism thread put me in a state of grief and quiet anger. It’s amazing to see how so many have managed to flourish in spite of it all.
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Dave,
I think your concerns are misplaced. Whereas many topics on the blog revolve around debatable issues and positions, that thread was created for the purpose of allowing experiences to be shared. It’s enlightening, if difficult reading.
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Mack Lyons
I’d say something to Dave, but Abagond and Ace pretty much nailed it. Dave, this blog isn’t for you, nor will it be tailored to fit your special sensibilities.
Reading the white racism thread put me in a state of grief and quiet anger. It’s amazing to see how so many have managed to flourish in spite of it all.
*****************
Co-sign!!!
@ Dave
So many people here, over time, have attempted to explain to YOU in our own unique and individualized ways how and why we see things the way we do. There were times that you seemed to “get it.” But you haven’t been able to keep or RETAIN it.
We know that some of us have strong “reactions” to white racism. Some (blacks and non-blacks) call this “black racism”. Okay. Whatever you want to call it – it happens. But “it” can’t hold a candle to the global mammoth that is white-supremacy. One is like a jumbo jet, the other is like a bumble bee. They both have the capacity to inflict pain and hurt, but one possesses a great magnitude of power and force, while the other, relatively speaking, does not.
I understand that you were victimized as a youth, and I get that you are concerned for your children’s future. But Ace is correct. You aren’t interested in a fair and balanced look at race. The fact that you think that the thread (non-white people’s earliest experiences with racism) is about getting “shots” in while whites’ gloves are down, shows that you’re missing more than I have the patience or stomach to convey.
If that’s what you truly see and believe, then you really shouldn’t be here.
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@cleonette,
Sorry about the confusion.
I was referring to my own case, not commenting on yours. I meant that I was victimized by many white racist events in my early childhood, but until about age 5-6, I think I misunderstood them to be cultural biases and prejudices. It wasn’t until about age 6-7 that I understood them to be more racially motivated than cultural prejudice.
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@ Dave
How to phrase this….
This world isn’t fair.
That we can agree on.
You, a white man, have privileges that enable a certain mentality called Entitlement. You feel that even though this blog is black-based, it should revolve around what YOU think is fair.
That David is true Entitlement.
The reason why you and other white racists don’t learn a damn thing is because you don’t want to learn. To you, there is nothing to learn from blacks because we have nothing of value to teach.
Yet, you are compelled to come here daily, several times a day, to post videos, spew hatred, complain about not being included on the First Experiences thread. Dave, if that’s how you feel, then may I offer a simple solution?
Don’t come here.
After all, segregation was your invention, correct? I know how you whites LOVE to take credit for inventions. Then follow your forefathers rule and don’t come here to tell us how unfair we are. How racist we are. How violent we are.
Just stay away.
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@ Randy
I’m glad you’re “enlightened” by the First Experiences thread.
Difficult reading…nothing is difficult for you, Randy. I’m sure you get quite a jolly out of reading that. Your “arousal” is showing.
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Hey Iris =) Warm greetings from across the Atlantic!
Gosh, each family dynamic is so different I’m not sure anyone could give you specific advice on how to appropriately handle these painful and uncomfortable situations. What I will tell you is to maintain your dignity at all times: It is their problem not yours; do not allow them to reduce you to their crass level. Iris, sometimes I simply had to excuse myself from a family gathering (as in leave) or increase the physical distance from my husband’s clan if that was at all possible.
With 12 years of marriage, their verbal and/or non-verbal communication (sometimes outright nastiness, and sometimes “feigned” ignorance-at this point I really don’t know nor do I care =) began to effect both my mental and physical health to the point where days before a gathering I would have terrible stomach-ache, couldn’t keep food down, intense headaches, and sleep-please, what sleep!
Furthermore, they way I saw it, the onus was on my husband to protect my honor and demand that I be given the respect that I deserve as his wife and a woman. To his credit, he did defend my honor from day one; but, he is also began losing the people he loves because of his love for me. When you love someone, and Iris I do love my husband (but I’ve got to hold on to my self-respect), you don’t want to deny them anything that brings them joy, especially something as essential to self-identity as family. Contrary to my opinion, my husband believes most of his family members are redeemable, but you see, herein lays the deeper problem with my husband.
Nevertheless, I must admit, my husband has a backbone, is extremely intelligent, and more than willing to divorce those family members who refuse to respect me. But, I do not stand alone. I am the descendant of captive Africans, a daughter, a granddaughter, a sister, etc. I have been socially prescribed to a group that my husband’s folk has no respect for; as such, in spite of his perception of positive behavioral and attitudinal changes from his side of the family (and I know this is not so b/c children under 6 have no censor) towards me personally, I know it’s fake, can feel that it’s fake, and I can’t stand to be around fake people who hold on to ideologies that only serve to benefit a few.
Iris, there’s so many things about my husband’s family that burns my biscuits, that I wondered if something was wrong with me, LOL!! But no, it IS them. I have befriended folk from many different lifestyles and I simply REFUSE to be associated with racist, homophobic, and classist folk. Empathy for others is scarce among the highly privileged-not all, but most.
Wishing you the best Iris! Hold your head up HIGH-ALWAYS! I’m sure your husband knows you are PRICELESS!!
Warm hugs sista =)
One day we will get there as a people of Earth, maybe not in my lifetime, but one day…..I always have hope =)
Wish people would simply see that:
“I am everyday people” Sly and the Family Stone (1968) Arrested Development (1992)
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@ Matari:
=))))) I’m givin’ you big chicklet grin and a big ‘ol hug!!! LOL!
Time for me to go workout my frustrations =) Take care guys.
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@ Iris:
1 more thing: 1:1 conversations -I simply stated: ” I found “insert what dumb crap was said” offensive and please do not say it again”.
Sometimes I would just give a blank stare that I was meant to communicate: For real, are you serious?
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@ Iris: More came to mind:
A few more things I recall saying- some might be considered a tad confrontational:
1) (Say something positive if you can and follow up w/) however, I found “insert what dumb crap was said” offensive and extremely hurtful please do not say it again.
2) Am I the only one in the room with my eyes and ears open?
3) I think we should all be more mindful what we say around children.
4) You know, I find it’s always wise to think before one speaks.
5) I’m sorry, did I misunderstand you? What did you say again? OR What did you mean by that? OR (my favoritie-repeat every single vile word said to you) -Ex) Name of offender, did I hear you correctly when you said/agreed with (insert stupid remark here)? If she/he does admit to agreeing w/ or sayin “X”- you know where you stand.
6) (My personal favorite-when grew tired of them looking down on everybody): Well, my grandmother always said, “We all born between piss and shi+ so no one is better than anyone else” Or some variation of that: We all put our pants on 1 leg at a time; we all sit down to shi+…..yup, you get the pic!
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@ the world we live in
I had an interracial love interest in my 20’s. A beautiful, swarthy Italian man who made my knees weak. We were mad for each other. His mom HATED me. She was from Sicily and being honest, we were about the same complexion. Frank used to tease that Sicilians, who are of Moorish ancestry, could be in my family and vice versa.
His mother wouldn’t have it.
She gave him a choice: me or her.
I’m married to a black man now, an American. I’m not opposed to interracial love but that experience left a nasty taste in my mouth. Never again.
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satanforce
“And if not naked white women, then naked black women. With big ole titties, and something like, “top 10 blackest areolas” (I nominate Jada Fire for number 1).”
Co-signed!
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@ Everyone,
How come it’s okay to derail and dismiss everything every sing PoC has said on this blog, but the moment you don’t get to stamp all over a thread it’s suddenly “racist”? How come certain people can’t check their own racist statements and yet insist on crying “anti-white” at everything?
Also, am I the only one who finds it so crazy that certain people are really offended by people of color sharing their racial experiences, even though they’ve had the opportunity to spew their “facts” and hatred all over this blog at every other post?
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Everyone,
I’ve tried my hardest to explain it to Dave, but it’s no use. I’ve tried to explain it respectably and calmly as possible, but it was getting me nowhere. There may be times where he seems to understand a little, but in end, he chooses to think like a white person no matter what.
He knows this blog is not meant for him. He knows that this blog is not here to coddle him and pacify him when he cries. Still, he thinks his POV is more valuable than ours for whatever reason.
Dave’s making it become less and less about white racism, and more and more about himself.
I suggest you get help Dave if you’re reading this. You won’t get it in this blog. You won’t get it online at all. Your best bet would be to go to therapy of some sort because you’re more annoying than helpful to us AND the so-called race realists.
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Bliff,
Your response here is exactly why you’re not allowed to comment on that post. Your moral absence and low-level logic has earned you a spot on the list of banned drones with nothing new to say. Like a parrot, you repeat the same things over and over again, but now you are silenced from an area where you will not fly into.
Unless you’re crazy and bold enough to swoop in and say something. Come on. You know you want to.
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@ Bliff,
You are crossed the line. You do NOT have the right to evaluate and dismiss the stories of these people, as if YOU have any idea what racism means to these people. They freaking tell their stories, stories that have managed to stay with them for years, and you have the audacity to do that? You are a cruel, pathetic little bigot.
“Ace had typical girl problems with other girls – jealously, jostling for social position, competition over lead roles in plays, etc. I’ve personally seen all this with just white girls growing up, even my own sisters went through this. There were different races involved in Ace’s story, but nothing out of the ordinary. Trying to make a racist issue out of this is race-baiting. It doesn’t matter if the girls clashed with others of different races – it was still just young girls being girls.”
No I didn’t. They specifically insulted me based off of my race, or used my race as an excuse to attack the races of others. BLATANTLY. Don’t you dare dismiss this crap as “race baiting” or “girl problems” when they managed to warp me for the rest of my freaking life. I turned into a bully and an emotionally beat up individual because people took my skin color as an excuse to abuse me verbally, and hell yes, even sexually. It was not RACE BAITING. Race baiting would imply I went out there looking to bait them using my race. Me doing well and my family performing above the white people around us was not “race baiting”. It was their fault for being racist and treating me that way, not OUR fault for race baiting by daring to be accomplished without their damned permission. They turned it into a race issue by making it a race issue.
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@ Bliff,
Also, let me point something out to you.
You are not being “dehumanized” by people talking about racism that happened to them. No one is blaming all of their problems on white people. No one, not one person said, “Oh, I hate all whites. They are responsible for every problem in my life.” Each one of them has a specific example, a specific person to attacked them, just like you’ve asked for in other threads. If you were being dehumanized, they would have resorted to the same crap you do, where you make blanket statements about all black people and then get your panties in a bunch because people don’t find your tirades clever.
Get that through your thick skull. If you aren’t racist, and your white you would know this doesn’t apply to you. The fact that you are so bothered by a few people color getting to share their experiences shows where you stand.
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Bliff,
Wouldn’t you consider the participation of adults in creating an environment of hostility towards a child to be significantly more impactful than usual “kids being kids” abuse?
Have you considered that these expressions of anguished feelings is perhaps indicative of the ultimate intractability of racial problems?
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@ Randy,
Exactly.
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Bliff is frothing at the mouth that he can’t leap in to that thread and derail it. It’s telling that he can’t just leave that thread alone. He had to make a multi paragraph post dismissing their personal stories. No one is holding a gun to his head and telling him to come here. If he doesn’t like what’s being said, he could always post on that particular thread and make it so he can’t here us “whining” anymore.
@ Abagond
I know it’s your blog but having Bliff attack personal stories from that thread defeats the purpose and the safe space. He reads the stories and then comments on them elsewhere. It’s underhanded, lowly and, to be perfectly open, creepy as f*ck. This Bliff person doesn’t seem to have any self control. What a sad little man.
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@ Darq
I agree. He is defeating the purpose of the thread ban. I deleted his comment.
Bliff is banned from the entire blog.
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Thank you, Abagond! Thank you very much.
Don’t let the screen door hit you in the arse on the way out, Bliff. 🙂
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It was only a matter of time.
To have someone dismiss your pain as some kind of meaningless whining is the first class example of a morally deprived individual, and that guy was certainly deprived.
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Heh. What a shame. I would comment, but most of the white racist activities directed towards me (police separating me from my white friends and searching me, stupid questions, “Mommy look, a nigger!” ) are quite frankly, not even worth discussing. Its a shame, because I have to agree with Bliff (…sigh).
If there is one thing that hip-hop has taught me, its get your own, be your own, and let the haters hate. Of course, I had my dad to tell me about my black self or else by now, I’d be bleaching myself, what with all those black girls calling me “monkey” and lighter-skinned dudes using me as a wingman.
None of it matters now. As log as you realise that the only person that you really need, is you, then you will be free to build the type of person who you deserve to be, AND make the world around the type of world that YOU deserve to live in.
Its all up to you.
People of all different nations, colours and creeds, united through the love of titties. MLKJr’s dream achieved.
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Tsk Tsk. Bliff got banned. Damn. Always thought that he’d go before destructure. Especially that time I manipulated him in the Broken Africa comment section. No matter. The necessary candidates have been located. I just need o proceed with the next phase of my plan………..
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Bliff is banned from the entire blog.
D’aww, I wanted to mess with him some more. Oh well, there’s a million suckers out there, and I’m out of lollipops.
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@ Abagond,
Thank you, that was starting to get disturbing.
@ Satanforce,
“People of all different nations, colours and creeds, united through the love of titties. MLKJr’s dream achieved.”
I’ll see you at my “Table of Brotherhood” at Club Cheetah 🙂
(Oh God that is ridiculous)
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It was only a matter of time before Bliff was banned. He was a career troll.
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yes!! bliff is blocked. bye.
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Bye Bliff. You will be missed like a boil on a butt. A definite pain in the ass. lol! 🙂
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I’m disappointed that Bliff won’t have the opportunity to answer my two questions above. Anyone else care to take a shot?
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Its hard for me to read and post on Open Thread because it takes so long for the computor to buffer it up
But, I dont know why its so hard for white people to understand that there is a time to listen and learn.That is what the First Experiance thread can represent to white people. A chance to be quiet and listen to reality. A chance to try to get why there is a lot of indignation and anger coming from minorities living in a white dominated and driven establishment, with racist obsticles at every turn in their lives, from the educational system to the job market to finding a roof to live under .
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Randy, to take a crack at one of your questions, if I understand it correclty, yes, those experiances are a bottom line reason racism is going to be confronted and it is something people are going to be angry and indignent about and not back off of anytime soon….not sure if I got your total question
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Randy, don’t be too upset. I am happy he is gone! He was on my “list”. Now he can use his d*ck beaters to go harass someone else’s blog. Strongly disliked that dude…
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I’m actually sad Bliff’s gone, especially the one time I actually agree with him. Nevertheless, my project will continue.
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I am sure there will be others who will spill out of the wood work to fill Bliff’s place. American racist society is a sick place so I’m sure there will be many others in need of healing who venture to visit this Blog. Maybe ones who will read, take note and learn from Bliff’s self-indulgent and dis-respectful mistakes. Speaking of learning:
“..Have you considered that these expressions of anguished feelings is perhaps indicative of the ultimate intractability of racial problems?…”
If respect for POC’s experiences and points of view can be learned then so can the belief that ultimately racial “apparent” conflicts are not really the problems we erroneously believe them to be. And they are definitely NOT intractable.
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Randy is upset at Bliff’s banning because he lost an ally.
Randolph, there’s always Douglas. Who knows, maybe he can give you legal advise between his multiple breakdowns.
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Bliff bit the dust!
Whatever happened?
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@Bliff
I have to admit, your audacity is admirable. Let me guess; you changed your IP?
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@Bliff
Well, that didn’t last long.
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Bliff is the epitome of White Privilege.
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B.R. and Kwamla,
Thank you for your responses.
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::Starts singing the chorus from Eminem’s “Cinderella Man”::
Aaaaaaa-meeeen! Aaaaaa-meeeen!
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“Bliff is the epitome of White Privilege.”
**********
as well as ..
Bliff is the personification of the village idiot/consummate troll!
Good riddance to his racist nonsense.
{{ Hey Blifford – give my regards to Gilligan, Skipper and the crew!! LOL }}
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So Bliff’s gone. Can’t say he didn’t have it coming.
That’s the problem with guys like Bliff, Dave and Randy: a notable lack of respect for Abagond, lack of respect for the blog and a lack of respect for black Americans in general. Even when told not to put his hands on the hot stove, he just had to do it anyway.
Hardheaded and insolent. Well, he got burned.
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Ol Bliffy is probably off getting drunk on his fifth quart of liquor! Ding dong ol Bliffy’s gone, Bliffy’s gone, ding dong ol Bliffy’s gone away. He’s gone to the liquor store to wile away his woes! (repeat refrain a million times)
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Ode to Bliff:
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TsRdkrxl4g)
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@Herneith
LOL.
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Hey the world we live in! Warm greetings to you, too. Thank you so much for taking the time to reply to me. 🙂
It’s true that every situation is so different that it is difficult to give advice, so I’m grateful that you tried to help. I’ve never been close to another WOC who has been in a serious relationship with a White man and had problems with the family. Therefore, I have never had anyone I could turn to or ask for advice.
His parents grew up in a time where racism was normal and accepted. They even told him specifically after dating several WOC that they wanted him to date a White woman. His father rarely says anything racist. So much that I am actually shocked when he does. However, his mother frequently says strange things that clearly come from a deep-seated prejudice against POC. I have good reason to doubt it is from ignorance since sometimes she makes fun of East Asian people while staring me straight in the eye with a sick grin on her face like, `Ha ha, I can mock you however I want and I know you can’t say anything back! You can’t stop me!’
Physical distance is not much of a problem at the moment. They are in Europe and we are in East Asia! Though there is a possibility we could move back to Europe in the future, but not to the same country.
I have thought of excusing myself, but at times it is difficult. For example, leaving during dinner or during times when other guests are present is seen as very rude and this is often the time when the more obvious racism pops out. Maybe because they know I cannot excuse myself without offering an explanation and possibly getting into an argument!
That’s awful! I am afraid it may head in that direction for myself because their comments do upset me and there have been evenings where I have gone to bed feeling completely crushed. I’m currently trying to reprogram myself by recognising they are not my family, nor my friends. They are my in-laws and I have no obligation to like them, nor do I have to make them like and accept me.
I wish I could agree that my husband were 100% the same, but unfortunately he seems to weaken when it comes to his mother. He has had problems between her and exes before. Apparently she has a way of twisting things to make it seem like he is confronting her for nothing. A way of covering up her dirt with roses so it looks like she’s innocent. He does not know how to handle it. I will also admit she seems two-faced. I have been very confused in the past, not sure whether she loves or hates me. Now I am just wary around her all the time and it takes a lot of energy.
You mentioned his family acting nicer, but knowing it is entirely fake. I worry that this may also be the result I get from saying anything.
I try my best to avoid these sorts as well, but as you probably know, when it comes to your or your spouse’s family, it becomes more complicated. I am sorry that you have also suffered a lot at the hands of your husband’s family. I hope that the future is brighter for you. No one deserves to be treated this way.
Thank you! I have to keep in mind my husband’s view of me is far more important than his family’s will ever be.
I’ve found the blank stare with a slight frown worked well on my mother-in-law. She was saying some rubbish to reassure me she saw `my people’ as human beings and felt safe in crowds of them, while insulting Black people at the same time. She didn’t shut up or apologise, but she stuttered a lot and clearly got uncomfortable. So I will remember that. As long as I don’t have to listen to or experience the hatred that fills her inside…
Not sure how the former would work because I have a strong feeling `it’s just a joke’ and `you’re over-sensitive’ would be the response! I also get the impression they would look at me incredulously for speaking up and get angry with me and I am not sure how to prepare myself for that. Especially when confrontation makes me so nervous.
Thank you for typing up all the great suggestions for responses. I will keep them all in mind for the next time!
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@ brothawolf
Sorry I didn’t respond sooner. I left the First Experiences thread when some asshole showed up.
Listen, you’re a sensitive soul and so am I. As two sensitive souls, we feel things deeply and unfortunately, it sticks. HARD.
I understand the feeling of giving up.
I gave up once. It was called the hospital.
Yes, I made myself sick.
No easy way to say this, my love, so here goes.
As a black man living in the United States, given this country legacy of hate, EVERY card is stacked up against you. Job, wife, money, house, long-life and yes, happiness. America has weaved an almost unbreakable system that will live and breathe to bring you to its knees…then spit on you.
Know that this system called racism, has one purpose and one purpose only: To see you defeated.
Everytime you see that black face on TV, it WANTS you to see it.
Everytime you fail that job interview, no matter how skilled you are, somewhere in the depths of hell, a racist person grins.
Everytime you succumb to the pain, the rage, the anguish by taking drugs, drinking yourself into a drunken stupor, hitting your wife and kids and yes, going to jail, a racist person breathes a sigh of relief.
Your demise is its Mother’s Milk.
Remember that always.
You know why these racist whites come here? Look at Bliff. Abagond told that motherf***er to stay away. Do you remember my earlier statement about being surprised they obeyed? Randy got “insulted”. Yeah…right.
Brothawolf, white people need us like f*cking oxygen.
Who else will make them feel better about themselves? Know that YOU are strong and able and worth it. Stay and fight. You are worth it.
God put us here. If He didn’t want us here, we wouldn’t be here. Yet we exist.
Focus on yourself, your goals, your passions, your family and those kids of yours you love so much. They need a good teacher.
Remember the Devil walks on Earth. Lord have mercy…I’ve met him/her at least…..90,000 times.
Lucifer was the ultimate sociopath. Fake, glib, plastic, phoney. Unable to be truthful. A f*cking deviant liar son of a bi*ch. Remind you of anyone??? Don’t be fooled. Black racism is just a cover up for white impotency.
Know that and keep that with you.
And you’ll do fine.
I’m here if you need to talk.
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Gorbachev is banned for commenting on the First Experience thread. Yet another white commenter who thinks he is above my rules.
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He genetically enhance himself the hell away from here.
The trap is working perfectly……
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@ Gorbachev (in reply to the following blocked comment):
1. You are not some special creature. The rules apply to you the same as everyone else. If you think they are INCONVENIENT, you bring it up with me. You do NOT go ahead and break them and then call me harsh because you do not like the consequences.
2. YOUR need to read that thread in a way that is easy for you is not more important than the needs of that thread. I do not have your fancy software and I can read the thread quite fine. And, in any case, that thread (and, more generally, this blog) is not FOR YOU.
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I had no idea you swing that way. So ummm, what did you think about “Pariah”
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I dunno about that one. He’s a pretty good listener (with me) always keeps his promises. Unlike some other people……
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@ Peanut
You are NOT banned. I do consider you a friend. I am terrible about answering email, so do not take that personally.
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@ Satanforce
From your moniker, I can see why you two are best buds!!! LOL!
Does he tell you secrets?
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In honor of the passing of Bliff and Gorbachev, I’d like a post on Social Dominance Theory as it relates to Race Realism. I believe, like the Hamitic Curse, it is merely a means for racists to legitimize their societies injustices with “evidence” of our inferiority.
Like most Americans, Race Realists are ignorant of even a small piece of pre-colonial African history, which would otherwise kill their theories deader than dead.
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@Abagond
I was kind of surprised I was not listed as one of the people restricted from posting in the first experiences thread.
But I suppose you kind of figured I’d not have posted anyway eh?
Either way, I can’t believe they would have the nerve to post even when you warned them against it, the stupidity is astounding.
See, even though I do sometimes take the white side I’ve not totally be ingrained with the mentality of “I’m white therefor I do as I want” which is why I decided not to post there for respect to the decent and truthful commentors and to you aswell.
Plus, reading some of those experiences absolutely made me feel disgusted in how some whites can willfully hurtful to others simply because they aren’t white.
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It’s funny how Gorby claims to want to learn about the black experience when it’s more than obvious that he has no interest whatsoever of learning anything about us from us. He prefers to rely on racist whites to teach him.
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Truthbetold,
Thanks for your words.
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Wow this is a great turn of events to see more bans from the various trolls. Abagond you are the man! 🙂 Bliffy bye-bye :p and Gorby hope you find your black experience elsewhere-maybe the grio or blackvoices–adios
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@Truthbetold : Hey there=) Apologies for the delayed response.
I completely understand and hope to have what you have in my life someday.
The battle on my home front was the two-prong: Race and Class. My soon-to-be- ex’s (let’s call him S) and his folks are considered ‘wealthy’; My clan and I, on the other hand, are not and never have been (in fact, we run the whole SES range LOL! ) . ‘S’ described his family to me as liberal and open-minded and I believe he even uttered “color-blind” (Which today I would consider a warning signal…just sayin’), which from my experience just allows many people (regardless of ethnicity) to minimize the impact of race on one’s life circumstances. (‘S’ has read Silva and others, so he’s catching up-just too late for me)Anywhoo…
Their estate is gorgeous, no doubt, but it’s quite a mind-fuc! I nearly lost my mind one day when I located the living quarters for ‘the help’. Conversations concerning taxes (why should I pay more when ‘these’ people……), trips to X,Y,Z,; forty-thousand dollar/ year tuition for 6 year olds, huge diamond rings on anorexic women, being witness to the children’s indoctrination to white supremacy, and so much more….I just had enough.
It’s funny you mention your hue because in my case, I am obviously ‘Black’, but I was certainly on the receiving end of hatefulness from the women in the family specifically because of my attractiveness. It’s as if I am not supposed to be attractive simply b/c I’m black (must send memo to parents, ha!) And good lawd, when I stopped hiding my natural given beauty with the perm, the envy from the ladies was fierce! I find that white females are use to being esteemed as the true “beauties”, so much so, that when they see a woman like myself, and probably you too Truth, who rises so far above them (in looks, intelligence, charm, etc) it shakes them to their core. I must admit, I DO take pleasure in such moments.
Perhaps my optimisim is somehow related to masochism…. But, one things for certain, if I ever marry again, it will be with someone who shares my history. I’m not diggin’ the single life…not really even ready to date…ugh….but i’m human…. where are my batteries? LOL!
Take care y’all. =) Special hugs to Leigh…take in the sunshine luv!
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@ Brotha Wolf : I saw your latest post on the 1st experience board. Trust me, the day will come when THE dominant feeling will be a sense of pride and awe at the overwhelming resiliency of our people. We are AMAZING!
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@ Yawn
Thanks.
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@ D.
I have talked to others that actually believe that the Hamitic Curse does not refer to skin color as has been taught or rather black people. I have yet to sit down and gain further knowledge about it, but I am curious on your thoughts regarding it.
I am leaning a bit towards ti being a way to justify racism in the churches. Any input would be nice.
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@The world we live in
I hope so.
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@Sharina
Correct. The Hamitic Curse is not skin color, and even if it was it’s just a piece of Bronze age propaganda. Only Canaan, Ham’s 4th son was cursed, the the requirements of the curse were fulfilled when the Israelites took their land and named it, well, Israel.
But the real funny part is that one of Ham’s sons is Mizraim, the patriarch of Egypt. So anyone who believes in the curse would have to concede that Egypt was built by Black people!
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@ the world we live in
White women cower when a beautiful black woman enters the room. I’ve seen it many times. My good friend is from Sierra Leone. A true ebony beauty. She has some Arab mix and it shows. She is stunning from head to toe with a full figure.
When she puts on a white outfit with that ebony skin, white males fling themselves at her. They are toast. And she loves every minute of it.
We were having lunch in NY, the Village to be exact, and one white friend spotted us. She sat down directly facing us.
It was obvious she could not tear her eyes off my friend. She looked and behaved…with discomfort.
I found the interaction amusing.
Here was a willowy white, green eyed woman and in this corner was my black friend. Sorry, there was no competition who stole the glances from the male patrons.
You are not alone, my love.
Hold that regal head high.
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Guys….
Do you hear that?
The sound of peace without Bliff.
Ahhhhhhhh…….
I’ll relish this for as long as I can. Others will be coming soon……you know, like locusts.
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@ D.
Thank you for that. Oh no…it would destroy a white person if it ever came to light that Egyptians were black. lol.
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@ truthbetold…
I actually found it entertaining watching people make Bliff look stupid.
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@ Sharina
We made Bliff look stupid, but he did most of the hard work. Ha! 😛
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Bliff and Gorby may be gone, but we still have Doug, Brahms, and William (among others) to deal with.
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No one made Bliff look stupid. He succeeded in everything he was trying to do.
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Succeeded in what? Getting kicked off the blog? lol
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@ duckduckgoofs
What exactly was it he was suppose to be succeeding at. Trying to make people feel inferior. If that is what measures success then we live in a sad world.
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@abagond, I took your advice and read.
It is sad that there is so much division between people in this country. I will agree that some of the blatant racism has become more subtle like at the work place or in general conversation between friends, or classmates.
I think you will always run into that. I don’t think it is going away anytime soon.
to play devil’s advocate I will again use a sports analogy.
I’m a philadelphia flyers fan. I was a baby when they last won the cup. I think it was 1975 they had a nickname back then. “The Broad St. Bullies,” It was well deserved. They wreaked so much havoc in the NHL with their almost criminal play that the flyers are still hated to this day.
The new Flyers can get physical with the best of them , but it isn’t as much. They are more of a skill team now then a cheap shot team.
Recently they played the Pittsburgh Penguins in the first round of the playoffs. Even though the Pens have some of the best skill guys they are way more like the Flyers of the 70s then the Flyers are. Sports writers in that town automatically talk about the bullies like it was yesterday. “THE BROAD STREET BULLIES ARE CRYING ABOUT GETTING A DOSE OF THEIR OWN MEDICINE”.
Obviously almost none of the new flyers were even born yet during the glory days of the bullies, but they still pay for it.
Thats why I think you have alot of younger white people frustrated about having to answer to the sins of the past.
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@ duckduckgoofs…The reason I stated Bliff made his self look stupid was because the last encounter I had with him he made the statement of “Whites invented technology.” I asked him to support that claim and he could not. He then started to say the Chinese invented the compass, which they invented more than that but I guess he figures “let me throw out something so I don’t have to actually prove what I was saying.” I was even willing to accept statistics from him even though I don’t generally accept them period.
That type of close minded behavior is what I consider to be stupid.
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@ the world we live in:
Aww, thank you, hun! You’re so sweet. Back at ya! 😀
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The whites on this blog aren’t learning a f*cking thing. They are incapable of learning. Because at the end of the day…it’s all about them.
**sigh**
I’m tired.
Turning in early.
Night folks.
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I love it when Abagond writes in red. Turns me on…. Bye bye Gordy!
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Has anyone in this thread watched the movie, “The Strange Thing About The Johnsons”?
If you haven’t seen the movie, here’s a piece of advice: don’t.
Between the disgusting subject matter (which reeks of rape apologism), the disempowerment of all of the characters (with the exception of the “bad black” antagonist) and the suspect racial politics (yet *another* white Jewish producer seeking to profit from depictions of black dysfunction), its not worth your time.
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@ MaMu
I saw that crap. The director is talking about it would make a stir for him to use black actors and he was advised against it. As if we are not view negatively enough….wow. Just wow.
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no one made Bliff look stupid.
You are right! he did that all on his lonesome!
he Succeeded In Everything He Was Trying To Do.
Yes, He succeeded in showing himself up as a buffoon!
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Why are the BWE and IRR bloggers so mean?
It’s like if you say you prefer black men on their sites, they name call buts its okay for them and their sympathizers to degrade black guys every chance they get.
Oh God the irony. . .
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@ abagond:
Just a suggestion for the “What was your first experience of white racism?” thread. Perhaps you should cross out the names of the commenters you’ve already banned namely Bliff, Gorbachev, and Brahms. It’s kind of a banned to-do list. Pardon me while I smile with glee. 😀
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@ leigh
The sad part about it is that those banned probably still come here. I keep envisioning a sad little orphan child outside in the snow with his face pressed against the window of a house. Gazing upon the happy inhabitants inside.lol!!! 😛
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Phoebe,
One site in particular comes to mind, and this blogger posted a letter written by Jay from Philly (Yeah. THAT Jay from Philly.) in response to a black female blogger:
http://www.beyondblackwhite.com/jay-from-phillys-second-dr-goddess-response-time-for-strong-coffeetalk/
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Leigh and Abagond,
Brahms is banned too? When?
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Brahms is not banned.
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@ brothawolf
That letter was…wow.
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You may notice a certain someone in those comments…..
Here are the originals:
http://drgoddess.com/2010/09/nwnw/
http://drgoddess.com/2010/10/nwnw2/
http://drgoddess.com/2011/10/ambercole/
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“Being married was an absolutely foreign idea to them.”
WTF???
“What too much of the Black community has become is an ethnically monochromatic incubator of crime, drugs, death, and hopelessness dependent entirely on taxpayer money. ”
WTH???
“When I am less broke. And as you are a womanist, you shall be observed with a harsh and hostile eye I’ll probably send you some coffee at a later date as Jamaican Blue Mountain Coffee is cheaper, seeing that I am obviously in Jamaica.”
LMAO!!!
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@ The world we live in
I know you were addressing Truthbetold, but I couldn’t help noticing similarities between what you have said about your `soon-to-be-ex’s (I like the way you phrased that) family and my husband’s family.
The issue of class also exists in my situation, but it’s not as straight-cut because my father-in-law worked his way up from the bottom. He has no problems with my working class background. Mother-in-law was born and raised in an upper-middle class family. She asks politely about my family, but her efforts to pin the blame on my parents for their poverty have not gone unnoticed by me. The way she complains about the house she bought being `too small’ when it is more than twice the size of the largest house my parents have ever rented and she knows that. The way she gleefully ridicules me when I do not know something that is tied into class. Or how she keeps going on about young people these days and how they caused the recession by not taking jobs outside the field they studied in uni…
Mother-in-law seems to enjoy pointing out parts of my physical appearance that she attributes to my East Asian side in a negative way. Even though she herself is very slim, I saw the way she stared at me as I tightened my belt on a pair of trousers she gave me (they were brand new, but she wore them once and decided she didn’t want them). Since then there were all the comments and behaviour hinting that I am really fat and comparing me negatively to my sister-in-law. It seems silly that an elderly woman with grown children would act this way, but that’s how it is.
I truly love my husband, but I can’t lie and say this rubbish does not affect me. I don’t have a lot of faith in stopping it, so I guess it is up to me to grow a thicker skin and try my best to rise above the filth.
@ EVERYONE
I’m curious, is there anyone here who is mixed race (any combination) who has experienced racist comments from one of their parents?
Given what I have been going through with my in-laws (mainly mother-in-law, but everyone has said something ignorant/racist at some point), I have found myself turning to my parents a lot. However, my East Asian father is reserved and private when it comes to this. He keeps it all to himself and prefers not to talk about it. My White mother clearly does not get it. You think she does, then she comes back with her own idiotic racist stereotypes. Not even realising it is like slapping her own daughter in the face. Sometimes I even wonder how my father fell for her.
My brother and I would tell her all the time when she was being racist, but she would just laugh and repeat the exact same thing a few weeks later. I could talk to my brother, but he is such a busy person I rarely hear from him now.
It’s as if I have no one. Maybe POC who have been adopted into White families might feel the same way, I don’t know. Either way, it is a tough place to be in. Anybody out there who can relate?
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@Abagond,
Oh. My error.
@Satanforce,
I noticed that too.
@Darqbeauty.
Indeed.
@Everyone
I knew Jay from Philly had some deep disdain for black men, but that letter alone was mind blowing. What’s worse is that a black woman believe he came to her aid! I fell out of my chair seeing it with my own eyes.
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At the end of slavery, the White Americans (mainly the rich northerners) looked at the upper class of the newly freed blacks and said, “Show us! – the white race, that you, the black race – are worthy of freedom, and a place on the Great Chain of Being.” This was the original idea of racial uplift – that the poor amongst black people are somehow dragging down the middle class and upper class of blacks. Of course, a lot of the upper class did a lot to help the poorer amongst them, but the views of poorer people dress styles, mannerisms (shootin’ the breeze, hepcat, gangsta etc.)
And here we are again today. Yeah, you have true elites like Bill Cosby saying the same crap like Jay and Karazin, but the thing is, these guys have no problem using the same vernacular, style and dress code that originated from the poorer segments of black people.
It’s funny that you think that it would be odd for people like Karazin to embrace someone like Jay, when for the longest time, a lot of black people are incapable of seeing themselves through their own eyes, and not what they think white people see themselves.
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@ abagond:
Oh, he’s not? For some reason, I thought he was banned. lol! My bad. Chalk it up to wishful thinking on my part. 😉
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@ darqbeauty:
You know what, db? You must’ve read my mind. I had the same visuals going through my head, too! lol! 😀
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@ Iris
Sure can…
My cousins would make offhanded comments about Indians loving corn on the cob. Or why I don’t eat watermelons… Or some stupid shit about why I’m petite…( 5’9” / 130lbs) for a black girl…
I remember one incident where my grandma gave me a turquoise necklace. Natives used jewelry for currency so my grandma has some stunning pieces;
I think it was envy that caused that now that I look back, but I digress. My cousin, a light skinned mulatto who passed when it suited her, said I could trade it for whiskey.
As for my parents…not really….
They didn’t really say anything in front of us, at least as far as I can remember.
Iris, talk to your husband. This is bothering you and will continue to fester. If you don’t get it off your chest, one day you’ll blow.
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@ Satan, Brothawolf
Jay is obsessed with black men.
My first clue was when he said he works in corrections and has designated himself Neighborhood Constable. Hmmmmm….I wonder if homo-eroticism is at play here.
He knew ALL the stats in his neighborhood involving blacks and drugs, break-ins, crime, welfare, etc. How creepy is that? We certainly don’t care what goes on in the “white world” yet he is always in our faces.
When I notice someone is a little too involved in our business, The Lone Wolf comes to mind, if you know what I’m saying…
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@brothawolf et al
@Everyone
I knew Jay from Philly had some deep disdain for black men, but that letter alone was mind blowing. What’s worse is that a black woman believe he came to her aid! I fell out of my chair seeing it with my own eyes.
What has he been doing now?
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@ Truthbetold -I know that’s right! =)
That’s great advice for ANY woman. I just wish we knew how simply divine we really are (may save a few sistas some dough)! Trust, I get the side-eye sometimes, but I take every appropriate opportunity to tell another sista how fabulous she looks!
@Iris: No worries. It’s here for all to see. One never knows who may benefit. Love is hard to find Iris, and tougher skin is something that’s possibly worth cultivating generally as a minority. Your mother-in-law has got some serious issues, just like mine, LOL!!! You’ve figured her out, she’s just too privileged to know it, and you know what, that’s a tool you can use for your benefit. Or, maybe she does know it and that’s why she’s being a total tool.
Negative attitudes held toward those with less by anyone angers me so I definitely didn’t want to break bread with people who espoused such nonsense. Besides, I have spent the majority of my life working in some manner with low-income or ‘special’ populations (ex. individuals living w/ dementia; HIV/AIDS), and I’m certainly not raking in the big bucks but if big bucks are not attached, they see no value. SMDH. At this point, being in their presence is an affront to those values I hold most dear.
I’m beginning to think “S” was adopted…..he’s worldviews are in total opposition to his family, but he does love his family, and I can’t blame him for that because he should. Actually, if I’m really really honest, the problem is me. As loving as “S” has been to me and continues to be when we must convene, he can never truly understand my reality living in this skin. Therefore, no matter how close we are, we can never ever be as intimate as I desire now that I have come to my ‘awakening’. (You take the good, you take the bad, you take them both and there you have the facts of life……LOL =) “The Facts of Life” theme song and “The Gambler” by Kenny Rogers always pops into my head whenever I ponder my situation. LOL. Laughter keeps me sane and alive, along with an SSRI and exercise or else you guys would see me on a titillating Dateline special with some ridiculous title like “Dark and Dastardly Deeds: Murder in the North-East”, LOL!!!! WWLI can be hot-tempered……must. tame. tiger. within…
@Leigh: Right back at ya!
*Clapping hands* Happy I came across this blog =)
Toodles!
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The only thing that surprised me about Jay and Karazin was Jay’s use of a more formal English. They both have Issues that can be seen from a mile away – the letter only underscores that.
http://www.beyondblackwhite.com/jay-from-phillys-second-dr-goddess-response-time-for-strong-coffeetalk/
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@brotherwolf,
I read that and the Karazin woman was like she will ban people if they didn’t agree with the letter.
That is reminiscent of Gestapo type behavior. Black women–who’d have thunk it.
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I find white obesssion with our race to be quite odd. Frankly, no other race of people are so determined to squeeze themselves where they are not wanted.
Look at these blogs.
Black based blogs are created as a “safe” place where we should be able to discuss problems and possible solutions for our people.
We talk about the good and the bad. We come here for advise and comfort.
We have no where else to go it seems. Whites are at work, in our neighbourhoods, always watching us, spying on us, desperate for some malicious interaction. And they wonder why we don’t trust them.
So we create this…for us to vent, cry, heal and make sense of it all.
And like a moth to a flame or perhaps a more fitting analogy, a crow to dead carcass, here they come…in drones.
Can someone, ANYONE, please tell me, like a five year old, why whites can’t leave us the f*ck alone?
What is so damn special about us that they are enthralled?
It can’t be dark skin only, can it?
I know culture-wise we are like honey to them. As much as they have disdain for us, they can’t seem to do without us. Always commenting on our ” issues” with such gusto and passion…you’d think that they were talking about themselves!!!
Have you ever observed them interacting with each other?
It seems so forced.
So…fake.
They try hard to “be real” but they’re like drones. Robots. I watch them talking, laughing, giving a fake smile, taking about which school is the best for little Rebekah( she’s 2 but her life has already been planned out) and I think to myself, without daddy’s money, grandpa’s trust fund, “connections” your sister has…you’d be up the creek without a paddle.
They’re like an entire race of people with that missing link. That strand of DNA, that “special something” that makes them “whole”.
They latch onto us, to the point of sickness, obsession, imagined fear, rivalry, to desperately feel alive.
After all without our black skin to remind them of their whiteness, who are they?
I’ve noticed for the last week, since Abagond banned a few racists due to insolence, they’re “scared” to comment much even on open thread.
They attack the Zimmerman thread and the Black women are ugly thread because of their diabolical need to attack something of ours. But they have been silent and it shows. Could it be that reading all the comments on First Experiences has shamed them? Are they able to be ashamed? I honestly don’t know anymore.
Dealing with them on a regular basis is like fending off a swarm of bees.
I find it exhausting and time consuming.
I don’t know folks what to do here sometimes.
It’s like fighting air. They’re everywhere, waiting to attack, they lie in bed and fantasize our demise with glee.
How can one race of people be so deliciously evil?
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@truthbetold,
It does all seem wacky.
When we confront racism head on–they say we are engaging in reverse racism to even point it out. Not all whites, but daggumit too many!
We say we will form our own institutions, businesses, schools, banks and preside over our own marriage rituals–but dang–they come in bombing and sending spys.
We really just want peace!
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@ phoebe
I’d settle for true segregation…just us with our money, ideas, business, banks, etc.
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@phoebe
“When we confront racism head on–they say we are engaging in reverse racism to even point it out. Not all whites, but daggumit too many!”
Actually most whites who are against racism are against ALL kinds, not selective racism. The thing is though is racism is rarely at play anymore, as racism was specifically the though process of “our” race is better than yours.
These days it’s mainly about dismantling the white superiority system of the western world, to which I say good luck.
“We say we will form our own institutions, businesses, schools, banks and preside over our own marriage rituals–but dang–they come in bombing and sending spys.”
So practically the old days of segregation, but of institutions, not race heh and that will work in North America how .. ? Should we therefor let the Indians, the east asians, south asians, Arabs, all have their own aswell including whites? I mean, we want this society to be fair and racism free, but that just screams “we do not want to include them”.
“We really just want peace!”
As do most people these days, mainly due to mass immigration and easier transportation between countries people need to deal with people of other races.
How might we do that? People are not immune to xenophobia, and neither are countries.
I admire your post though, you made more process than Truth has ever done.
@Truth
“How can one race of people be so deliciously evil?”
Ouch, again with the “they aren’t human like us!”.
Segregation sounds about right for you m’lady, cause seems if whites are so terrible every other race must be aswell.
Also, considering if you even believe in the out of africa theory, technically we spawned from YOU blacks, so who’s really evil then? The ones who inherited it, or the ones who are the original holders of it?
I digress though, I really don’t know why I bother responding, it’s always the same truth, it really is. Whites are not anymore evil than anyone else, they just happen to hold more power currently, but we’ll see how the whole whites are evil goes once the asia region starts projecting it’s viewpoints to the world.
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@truthbetold
That’s not segregation, that’s sovereignty. And yeah, assuming White America does not change, sovereignty is the best goal.
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@Yawn
These days it’s mainly about dismantling the white superiority system of the western world, to which I say good luck. . . Should we therefor let the Indians, the east asians, south asians, Arabs, all have their own aswell including whites? I mean, we want this society to be fair and racism free, but that just screams “we do not want to include them”. . .Whites are not anymore evil than anyone else, they just happen to hold more power currently, but we’ll see how the whole whites are evil goes once the asia region starts projecting it’s viewpoints to the world.
You seem very invested in keeping the White superiority system of the Western World alive, down to the stereotypical “The Asian tyrants are coming!!!”
Yes, you should let the Arabs, east asians, south asians, and Arabs have their own institutions, as Whites have their own. Most Whites live in White neighborhoods, send the children to mostly White schools, and funded by a White-run government. They go to work for a White boss with mostly White co-workers, or they start a business of their own using money from a White-owned bank and hire mostly White employees. This system of White education, Finance, and Business creates a cycle of growing wealth and prosperity.
For what reason should we not have what you have? When we enter your institutions, it saps labor and capital out of our communities and further contribute to yours. And so long as structural racism persists, your system will always neglect us; we cannot uplift the impoverished in our communities without institutions of our own so long as Whites remain prejudice.
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@Yawn and your definition of racism is?
The point of people (like black people) to form their own economic centers, educational institutions and so forth is to–you guessed it–counteract racism. If properly done–this does not exclude people of any color–who are willingly to fight European/white hegemony and work in the interest of all people.
At this point in time–many whites are too resistant to this as they keep “bothering” black people and telling us what to think, how to strategize and how we should feel about our well-being. This cannot work!
For instance, for black people globally to get from under the decay, death and mental sickness we are in–we have to unite first and foremost and if there are whites, Asians and others with us–then that is great.
BTW the true definition of racism–and this is coming from scholars–is the ability to control another groups of people’s livelihoods through law, media, war, politics, and education based on skin color.
Right now, especially in America–the only group of people who have the upper hand in the things mentioned above are people who classify themselves as whites. Meaning blacks, Asians, Indians, etc cannot be practicing racists. They don’t control media, law and hold even half of the political offices.
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@satanforce
After looking at the rest of her blogs and her spat with Dr. Goddess, I’m not surprised. Karazin is suffering from a self-hatred so deep that she demonizes the black community for the sake of white men. I don’t think she’s into BWE as she appears or claims to be. I think she’s just another Sgt. Willie Pete, a black person who hates black people.
In other words they are black people with white minds.
As for Jay, I was curious to see if he appeared on any other blogs besides this one, and I checkout out “Beyond Black & White” which led me to “Dr. Goddess”.
Truthbetold,
You’re right. Jay is obsessed with black men.
I find it hysterical that he said that he learned about the black community through corrections. That is the kind of no-level thinking you’d expect from a member of the Tea Party.
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It’s funny.
One minute it sounds like Yawn understands where we’re coming from, but then reverts into the whiteness the next.
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Truthbetold said, “I’d settle for true segregation…just us with our money, ideas, business, banks, etc.”
LOL… My dad and I were talking about this the other day because in actuality, we were creating wealth for our own with ‘true’ segregation. But of course, with the growth of black wealth comes new policies to extract that wealth and that’s exactly what happened and continues to this day. We move forward, and lo and behold, here come’s a plethora of new state and/or federal laws in an attempt to dismantle any real progress. Africa for Africans-same rules apply.
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He learned about black peo[le from working in the department of corrections?
Glad I didn’t “learn about white people” from working at the detention center for youth sex offenders.
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@the world we live in
We don’t need Jim Crow, yeesh. We only need to concentrate our wealth, labor, and capital. Too many of us who make it move into white neighborhoods instead of enriching the black neighborhoods they came from.
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@ Yawn
” Ouch, again with the “they aren’t human like us!”.
Segregation sounds about right for you m’lady, cause seems if whites are so terrible every other race must be aswell.
Also, considering if you even believe in the out of africa theory, technically we spawned from YOU blacks, so who’s really evil then? The ones who inherited it, or the ones who are the original holders of it?
I digress though, I really don’t know why I bother responding, it’s always the same truth, it really is. Whites are not anymore evil than anyone else, they just happen to hold more power currently, but we’ll see how the whole whites are evil goes once the asia region starts projecting it’s viewpoints to the world.”
Listen up,
You know why you’re here?
Because the things I say ring true and deep within your ( would-be) soul.
Your argument is typical ad hominem…you have nothing important to say, nothing to add to the cause so you try to turn the tables.
You made my heartfelt comment to MY people about you…hence the ” Ouch “. This is called The Tone Argument.
If you don’t like what I have to say to MY coloured people, don’t read, don’t respond, just leave.
But you can’t, can you, Yawn?
Thanks for proving my point about your “attraction to us”.
Whites may not be the most evil race in the world, blacks, asians, Arabs all have done their fair share. No denying that.
But…you ARE amongst the sickest, most twisted, deviant, motherf*ckers that ever lived! You continue your vile, vomit-spewing deviant behaviour gleefully, intentionally, with no end in sight,
You make the rules that keep us in the shadows.
You decide what gets aired on TV. ( brothawolf and I discussed this recently…)
You have the money, and therefore the power to implement laws that affect MILLIONS of people. Millions.
No amount of black on black crime will ever measure up to that.
Wall street, The stock market crash, Insurance companies, Medicine, Big Pharma, FDA, Dept. of Argriculture, science, technology, education, government, Freddie Mac, FHA, HUD, WIC, Social Security, Fannie Mae…the friggin pencil I hold in my hand…all controlled by you.
In one swift move…millions of people are:
unemployed
broke
downtrodden
depressed
suicidal
locked out of their homes
no education for the kids or continued education for themselves
on welfare
starving
dying
no healthcare
no medicine
FORCED TO TURN TO CRIME
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm…………………………………..
Who has the power to do all that??????????????????
ME? A negress?
Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh………..I think not.
You need a wake up call, Yawn
A good one.
All your “facts” will never add up to the monstrosity that you’ve created.
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@ Cleonette
Thanks for that.
Yes, I too saw at an early age the sexual depravation of white males.
Including their fascination with their sisters.
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cleonette
You said, “Glad I didn’t “learn about white people” from working at the detention center for youth sex offenders.”
There are a lot of white youth sex offenders where you work?
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truthbetold said—–
I find white obesssion with our race to be quite odd. Frankly, no other race of people are so determined to squeeze themselves where they are not wanted.
Look at these blogs.
Black based blogs are created as a “safe” place where we should be able to discuss problems and possible solutions for our people.
We talk about the good and the bad. We come here for advise and comfort.
We have no where else to go it seems. Whites are at work, in our neighbourhoods, always watching us, spying on us, desperate for some malicious interaction. And they wonder why we don’t trust them.
So we create this…for us to vent, cry, heal and make sense of it all.
And like a moth to a flame or perhaps a more fitting analogy, a crow to dead carcass, here they come…in drones.
Can someone, ANYONE, please tell me, like a five year old, why whites can’t leave us the f*ck alone?
There are plenty of blogs created by white racists where white people have said the same thing you did in reverse. Also you have something in common with people in all white schools,clubs, pools,etc. who have said “can’t these black people leave us alone, why do they like us so much”
Those people are racists and so are you.
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@ D.
Did I say that we NEED Jim Crow? Do you REALLY believe most blacks living in the US don’t recognize the problem of black-middle and upper class flight and/ or black unity? Are we even sure we want those who flee (and I understand why many flee)? Maybe they’ve been in the matrix of whiteness too long…who knows. Those who look like you but worship those things the oppresor worships and speak with the oppressor’s tongue can do more harm than good if not ‘healed’ themselves.
Anywhoo, I simply responded to the comment because as I stated previously, the topic was discussed with my father and I just found it all quite serendipitous.
Peace and fruit cocktail!
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@truthtobetold:
“Can someone, ANYONE, please tell me, like a five year old, why whites can’t leave us the f*ck alone?
What is so damn special about us that they are enthralled?
It can’t be dark skin only, can it?
I know culture-wise we are like honey to them. As much as they have disdain for us, they can’t seem to do without us. Always commenting on our ” issues” with such gusto and passion…you’d think that they were talking about themselves!!!”
I think you are into something there. If you think about the american culture, really american born culture, you will find out that it originates mostly or at least usually from black americans. Be it music, litterature, language, fashion, what ever, the impact of the black americans can be seen everywhere and in anything. And when you think about truly white american culture, even that comes from mostly jewish, irish and italian immigrants. The WASPs have created very little anything. What they claim their own is either copied from the brittish upper class culture or from the fore said immigrants and/or blacks. Hence the obsession with blacks and at the same time the envy and jelousy.
Somewhere deep in the white american collective subconsiouness is a realisation that the blacks actually created a lot of what is known as american. And they are scared of that BUT also obsessed with that idea. How it can be that people brought in as slaves managed influence so much in the culture? How they still do it? That is ticking somewhere deep inside.
If you think even of the classical american beauty standards (1940’s-50´s), even those came from the black culture: curves, full of life, energy, spirited determination, even the idea of an athletic woman. Traditional anglo saxon white beauty was willowy, easily fainting weakling, pale and shy, almost ethereal spirit like ghost, whispering something hardly loud enough to be heard, retreating and domesticated spouse, as full of passion as lukewarm water. But the classic american pin ups are nothing like that. Where they came from? Of course they were and still are just perverted versions from the originals but still, if you think about those women you realise the difference between the almost lifeless victorian ideal wife and busty woman full of life and sex appeal.
Just like rock’n’roll was black music in 1940’s and became white in 1950’s, almost everything in american culture has gone trough the same. Black nannies in 1800’s spent their days looking after the rich white kids and told them stories etc. and out of those came some of the most famous american writers.
I think this is part of the obsession and draw. I may be wrong here but perhaps there is something in culture that explains the scitzophrenic aspects of the racism in USA.
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@ Dave
Calling me a racist, which I am, ( and have openly stated that I vacilate between contempt and pity many times ) has no bearing on society.
I, a negress, have no power. All I have is my opinion and ways to hopefully improve my life and the life of my coloured family and friends. ( And my fellow bloggers/commenters).
What’s your point, assuming you have one?
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@D
“You seem very invested in keeping the White superiority system of the Western World alive, down to the stereotypical “The Asian tyrants are coming!!!”
Actually I don’t, as I said WHITES are currently seen as evil vile and whatever, simply becaused they hold power .. this power does not equally spread across the globe as some suggest. That’s why I stated once Asia rises, we’ll see when THEY start exerting their own influence how quick it changes.
Also, to me the western world is fine how it is … it was based upon, created, and maintained for whites/caucasians. So what is their is some sort of superiority complex, the fact is go anywhere where the majority is not whites, and you see it exactly the same with them. I stated before, POWER currupts, because humans are flawed.
“Yes, you should let the Arabs, east asians, south asians, and Arabs have their own institutions, as Whites have their own. Most Whites live in White neighborhoods, send the children to mostly White schools, and funded by a White-run government. They go to work for a White boss with mostly White co-workers, or they start a business of their own using money from a White-owned bank and hire mostly White employees. This system of White education, Finance, and Business creates a cycle of growing wealth and prosperity.”
Odd, you sound exactly like a WN would, only on a smaller scale. You preach that, but that’s no different from segregation of the races, if you want independance from the “white” powers, you could always leave. I know, sounds harsh but what you’re suggesting is beyond unpractical, especially in migrant and diverse countries. Hell, we might as well split the globe in half and decide which race goes where as they decide how to build walls.
“For what reason should we not have what you have? When we enter your institutions, it saps labor and capital out of our communities and further contribute to yours. And so long as structural racism persists, your system will always neglect us; we cannot uplift the impoverished in our communities without institutions of our own so long as Whites remain prejudice.”
You made good points till you flat out said “whites remain prejudice”.
Again, the western world was build, and maintained by whites for WHITES.
Countries like the USA/Canada would not even exist if it were not for whites power grabbing and exerting their will onto others.
The thing is the system of the USA has been in place for ages, no system is being suggested to replace the one we have based on CLASS. Anyone who holds power within the class system can be prejudice, not just whites.
————————————————————————————————-
@phoebe
The point of people (like black people) to form their own economic centers, educational institutions and so forth is to–you guessed it–counteract racism. If properly done–this does not exclude people of any color–who are willingly to fight European/white hegemony and work in the interest of all people.”
No no, what she suggested sounds exactly what I thought it did .. don’t defend such stupidity, such a system does nothing but exclude people, how does excluding people combat racism?
“At this point in time–many whites are too resistant to this as they keep “bothering” black people and telling us what to think, how to strategize and how we should feel about our well-being. This cannot work! ”
And yet, when the reverse is true the whites are being told how to act, being told about how our well-being means nothing when “we’re” the cause of all the problems in the world? Being taught in school that only WHITES can be racist, and thinking it’s something ok? This cannot work either, and yes it’s damn true also. Schools here in Toronto (the Toronto district school board to be precise) are teaching whites and non-whites equally that WHITES/Europeans are the only people who can be racist this does nothing to help anyone.
“For instance, for black people globally to get from under the decay, death and mental sickness we are in–we have to unite first and foremost and if there are whites, Asians and others with us–then that is great.”
There’s nothing wrong about that, unite, be my guest.
“BTW the true definition of racism–and this is coming from scholars–is the ability to control another groups of people’s livelihoods through law, media, war, politics, and education based on skin color.
Right now, especially in America–the only group of people who have the upper hand in the things mentioned above are people who classify themselves as whites. Meaning blacks, Asians, Indians, etc cannot be practicing racists. They don’t control media, law and hold even half of the political offices.”
Nope sorry, your definition involves the same stupidity that tim wise uses that it’s all based on power within the system. ANYONE can be a damn racist, the difference is do you excuse one set of racists, while demonizing the other? That’s my gripe.
The USA is full of ignorance, the thing is how do you change it? How do you change a relic of the past and morph it into something that benefits everyone equally, and take into considering human prejudice against others.
It’s either we all get along, and look to the future while combating any kind of racism, bigotry, and hatefulness towards others.
Or you sit there, become bitter and succumb to the notion that well, races can’t live together and go for global segreation.
Either way, the future is bleak.
—————————————————–
@Brotha
“It’s funny.
One minute it sounds like Yawn understands where we’re coming from, but then reverts into the whiteness the next”
It’s funny, you still think I care about your little figment of the imagination called whiteness.
@Abagond
My apologies, I’ll just keep quiet and absorb your recent and previous posts and ignore the comments that just make me lose my temper.
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@truthtobetold:
As for black godesses, the ancient greeks and later romans and christians believed in something called Sofia Pistis, Sophia. This was the feminine divine wisdom which was believed to have been the Original wisdom, the one that preceded the male patriarchal God. And heres the thing: the iconographic color of this Sofia was black.
You can see it in the many paintings depicting Mother Mary and/or Mary of Magdala. In several paintings and images they have black gowns. That is the sign of the sofia pistis, divine older wisdom, feminine godess etc.
Just thoughed you might be interested in this info bit. Why or where that iconographic color black came from, I do not know, but it makes one wonder about the whole history of religions etc.
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@ Sam
This is me doing the ” Home Alone ” scream….
Wow!!!!
That was a fantastic explanation!!!!
Especially about beauty standards ( Angelina Jolie has our lips yet she is beautiful BECAUSE of them and we are ugly) and famous American writers.
Maya Angelou is criticized for grammatical “errors” but Poe, Twain and Bronte are “revered”.
The music part, that explains itself….They ALL want to sound “black”, play black, act like Hendrix and have the soul of B.B.
Thanks Sam.
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@ Truthbetold: You are the TRUTH! Lots of luv for you lady T!
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@ Sam: I’m beaming so much my cheeks hurt!!! Take care guys =)
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@ yawn
Question:
Are you a white male?
If yes, then you have privilege.
With privilege comes the power.
You seem to lose your temper whenever one of us points out your weaknesses.
On one hand I feel like you’re trying to understand but your privilege is getting in your way.
What’s your problem, Yawn?
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@truthbetold, you have some power . You have the power to write on a keyboard and have what you write read by thousands of people. You have the power to help a kid if you want and teach them right from wrong and how to throw and catch a ball. You could make a major difference in your life and someone else in one instant or action or moment. You have the power to love or to hate. I have all those powers too, no more or less than you do.
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@ dave
My power to write on a keyboard and have thousands of people read my messages is small in comparison to the power to decide who gets the pinkslip at work, gets into debt, falters on the mortgage payment, gets evicted from their house and lives on the streets.
Get the message?
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@yawn
You’re not trying to do what I think you’re trying to do, are you? Nah, you can’t be…
I didn’t think you’d actually treat truthbetold’s observation as a challenge.
Dave, do yourself a favor and sit down. This “You people are racists” crap isn’t gonna fly as long as there’s proof of your own peoples’ perfidity.
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@ Dave
“There are plenty of blogs created by white racists where white people have said the same thing you did in reverse. Also you have something in common with people in all white schools,clubs, pools,etc. who have said “can’t these black people leave us alone, why do they like us so much”
Those people are racists and so are you.”
********************
“The only form of FUNCTIONAL RACISM that exists among the people of the known universe is “White Supremacy.”
Neely Fuller
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Dave,
Telling the truth IS love. Would you prefer we lie about our pain and frustraion, put on a happy face and pretend that everything’s alright?
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@the world we live in
Are we even sure we want those who flee (and I understand why many flee)? Maybe they’ve been in the matrix of whiteness too long…who knows. Those who look like you but worship those things the oppresor worships and speak with the oppressor’s tongue can do more harm than good if not ‘healed’ themselves.
Good point.
@Yawn
This will be fun : )
Actually I don’t, as I said WHITES are currently seen as evil vile and whatever, simply becaused they hold power .. this power does not equally spread across the globe as some suggest. That’s why I stated once Asia rises, we’ll see when THEY start exerting their own influence how quick it changes.
I know this, though I’d make the correction that currently Whites hold almost ALL the power in the world currently, and not just in their respective countries. More on that later in this post.
Also, to me the western world is fine how it is … it was based upon, created, and maintained for whites/caucasians. So what is their is some sort of superiority complex, the fact is go anywhere where the majority is not whites, and you see it exactly the same with them. I stated before, POWER currupts, because humans are flawed.
Exactly. You are happy with the West as it is, thus you are invested in the White power structure. Don’t try to hide it, it’s perfectly fine. I respect you for it, actually. At least you’re honest.
Odd, you sound exactly like a WN would, only on a smaller scale.
Not surprising. I guess I would qualify as a Black Nationalist. Don’t crap yourself; as I said before I’m not interested in revenge. Unlike WNs, I do not hate other races, I merely want to interact on equal grounds as equal powers. After such power is attained, I wouldn’t be opposed to a harmonious relationship. Harmony cannot be achieved between two unequal powers, only domination and submission.
You, however, sound like a White Supremacist in the strictest definition of the term. That is, you acknowledge White hegemony and embrace it, even with the evil that comes with it.
You preach that, but that’s no different from segregation of the races, if you want independance from the “white” powers, you could always leave. I know, sounds harsh but what you’re suggesting is beyond unpractical, especially in migrant and diverse countries. Hell, we might as well split the globe in half and decide which race goes where as they decide how to build walls.
First of all, it’s not impractical. The Jews have done it for centuries and continue to do so to this day. White ethnic groups like the Irish and Italian do so as well. It was also done in the capital of Ancient Ghana with Arabs and Blacks, and again in Moorish Spain. There was interaction across racial and religious lines; it was a sort of like intra-national trade. What made it impractical for the Jews was that until WWII, everyone hated and persecuted them. I wouldn’t be surprised if White America lashed out at us if we decided to create such institutions.
Second, we still are segregated in our living spaces and in education. The difference is that you have control over your schools and housing, but we don’t.
Third, if only I could just leave. Whites control the whole world. Unless we make ourselves loyal hounds of Western powers, even at the expense of our best interest, we would be destroyed. The US alone has overthrown dozens of foreign governments to maintain its iron grip on the world.
You made good points till you flat out said “whites remain prejudice”.
Again, the western world was build, and maintained by whites for WHITES.
Countries like the USA/Canada would not even exist if it were not for whites power grabbing and exerting their will onto others.
The thing is the system of the USA has been in place for ages, no system is being suggested to replace the one we have based on CLASS. Anyone who holds power within the class system can be prejudice, not just whites.
These two paragraphs are self-contradicting. Is the West built by Whites, for Whites or by the powerful, for the powerful? And why not both? Race and Class intersect in the USA, as it has for ages. It’s why we are disproportionally poor and poorly educated. It’s why our double-digit unemployment doesn’t incite concern, but scorn. So, you will excuse me if I want the power to tend to issues White America wont.
Not that it matters. Like you said, if I do not want to live under White powers, I must leave. But as I said, America wouldn’t allow a powerful country to go about unaccounted for. The only option you leave me is to destroy the West. That’s fine with me. It’s not something I’d enjoy, but if I must then I must. It’s like the old American mantra:
Freedom is not free, it is bought with the blood of patriots.
The best way to destroy the West is from within the West (assuming you don’t destroy yourselves). All things considered, it’s in our best interest to consolidate power here and, in the worst case scenario, rebel and break your country.
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Besides Dave, and this may offend some people here, but it is the underlying truth, black people love white people more than white people love themselves.
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“Freedom is not free, it is bought with the blood of patriots.”
My grandma says ” Black blood isn’t cheap”
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@Yawn
One more thing: I wish for a world of free people in harmony. If that is not possible, I’d rather the world be made of Free People in perpetual war, than Subjugated People in “peace”.
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“Question:
Are you a white male?
If yes, then you have privilege.
With privilege comes the power.
You seem to lose your temper whenever one of us points out your weaknesses.
On one hand I feel like you’re trying to understand but your privilege is getting in your way.
What’s your problem, Yawn?”
Am I a white male? No, I’m mixed. But society deemed me white, due to my skin.
And again with privledge.. what privledge is that? I get to hear daily from whites that natives are nothing but leeches and savages, an alcohalics and I hear from Natives/people of colour how whites are vile evil, and should be exterminated.
How would you feel knowing that you thought you were proud to be who you are, only to have both sides argue and moan and getting tired of the constant battling for nothing. I’m tired of being ashamed to say I’m part native because natives see us as nothing but “wannabes” trying to be native for benefits .. like really, I can’t even be proud of my native side.
I can’t be proud of my european side either, why? Because of the crap I read daily from People of colour lumping and blaming whites for all the atrocities and all the problems of the world, as if I played some crucial part. I can’t be proud of the fact they ran up, said hey we’re claiming this land and robbed the natives blind, and to THIS DAY still does not recognize treaties that were signed, nor their right to govern themselves.
I’m as fractured as anyone else here, the difference is minor. My outlook is more apathetic, because deep down no one will change, or do it willingly. Everyone is guilty, no one has been forgiven for the sins of the past.
So believe me, If I sound privledged, it’s only because the facade lasts as long as people believe it to be there.
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“One more thing: I wish for a world of free people in harmony. If that is not possible, I’d rather the world be made of Free People in perpetual war, than Subjugated People in “peace”.”
So do I, but we will never achieve this, not in this lifetime. Habits die hard, and being a bigot is not something us humans are past.
You see it daily, even in a multicultural society. Women hating on men, for dating/marrying other races, men doing the reverse.
Kids grouping together and making fun of those who are deemed “different”.
Religious people being intolerant of other beliefs (Here, it’s bigotry against innocent muslims and hindus)
People complaining about “foreigners”, even though without immigration the population dies and the benefits along with it.
Will it end? Probably not, but a pipe dream is all people can afford now a days.
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@truthbetold……..I don’t have the power to do any of those either and I doubt very much that most of the white people who come to this blog do either. GET THE POINT. you are under the assumption that all white people are the same. There are plenty of black people who have more power than me. I don’t then assume that all of them do as you do. What you are doing is racial profiling.
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@Yawn
What has apathy ever changed?
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Didn’t expect to be posting again but just saw this:
http://www.thenation.com/blog/167590/race-millennials-and-reverse-discrimination
Yup, you guessed it: The ‘post-racial’ generation of white folks feel discriminated against. Awwwwww…….
http://stfuconfederates.tumblr.com/post/15136974794/dagseoul-the-white-person-of-the-year-for-2011 (if you need a good laugh to go along with this ‘reverse discrimination’ foolishness)
@ Brothawolf: I think you may be onto something….but I also suspect other minority groups, particularly those close to honorary whiteness, may be equally enamoured with ‘whiteness’ and white people.
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@D
Not a thing….
Heh, it’s ironic … never have I had anyone say that to me, not one person in my life. I suppose that could be the reason for the mess of a life im in, I was never talked to and told to express instead of supressing my emotions and as such I sat there and let my heart be walled up to the point where nothing would make me happy.
I don’t know, it’s hard to express thoughts you’ve hid away for so long.
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Yawn
You claim to , Native, like me, but you side with whites.
You cannot have it both ways.
My cousin, a mulatto, passes when it suits her. And when it pleases, she’s a “sista”. I chew her out every chance I get.
You can’t claim Native blood, an oppressed people, then side with your oppressor. It doesn’t work that way.
You either fight for the cause or sit down and be apart of the problem.
Your white skin makes you the oppressor.
Deal with it.
I have to live with the shame and sorrow of my grandma, both of them, who were victims of white wrath and lust. My ancestors died so I can go to the school of my choice and drink out of the water fountain.
My brown skin targets me as a whore, a drug dealer, a welfare good for nothing.
Know what?
I f*cking deal with it.
Every day.
Especially when I get pulled over by the cops.
You’re happy with things just the way they are because it benefits you, just like most whites.
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@truthbetold
He sides with neither. He has only resigned to apathy thus far.
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Yawn
You said “It’s funny, you still think I care about your little figment of the imagination called whiteness.”
I don’t care actually. I’m just making an observation that you seem to be, as they used to say, flip-flop your point of view.
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@the world we live in
You said, “I think you may be onto something….but I also suspect other minority groups, particularly those close to honorary whiteness, may be equally enamoured with ‘whiteness’ and white people.”
I don’t know about the other minorities certainly not in a monochromatic sense, but it still shows that they love white people more than most white people love themselves.
The self-proclaimed race realists that you see online in forums like this are obsessed with what we’re doing. Some are so obsessed they won’t hold back in not following the simplest of instructions, and look what happened to them.
It’s like you’re being stalked.
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Has anyone else ever wondered why White `race realists’ and so on come here? If they have so much faith in their superiority, why do they need to come here at all? Are they really trying to prove something to us (the inferior beings), or are they trying to prove something to themselves? Either way, they cannot believe in White=best too strongly else our thoughts and opinions would not be worth seeking out.
@ Truthbetold
Thank you for sharing. I’m glad to know I am not the only one who has to deal with racism from their own family. I know one of my White cousins is also very racist. It all comes out when she sees the men her mother dates. So much that sometimes I wonder if she isn’t ashamed to have me as a cousin.
You’re absolutely right. I actually did speak to him last night. I can tell it hurts him terribly to know his family does this to me, but it also hurts him that I feel this way about his family. He agrees that his family’s (especially his mother’s) behaviour is wrong, but we never get into a proper discussion about it. He deflects onto `I just don’t understand why people have such a problem with people who are from other races.’ As if he wants the focus taken away from his family. Even if we do get into a serious talk, I’m not sure what can be done or what I want from it. I know he supports me, but is afraid to confront his family for fear of a rage-filled explosion. I know I want something to change, but I either don’t see how to do it or don’t know what to change.
@ The world we live in
I know, I just wish I knew how to do it! I have been through so much in my life and yet it still pierces through me so easily.
I doubt she’s aware of her own privilege. I’ve seen evidence of it when she suggests solutions for my parents’ poverty (for example) and is truly surprised when I explain why that is not possible.
I wish I knew her to use her lack of knowledge of her own privilege to my benefit. I guess I’m too inexperienced to know how to play these games. I’ve thought of some in my head. Ways to provoke her into embarrassing herself in front of everyone and they will not notice I’ve done anything because she was playing her own subtle games. A way to get her to `out’ herself without becoming demonised by the others.
My husband is just like S. In many ways his views completely oppose those of his family. The only one he has the most overlap with is his father.
Reading this was tough because I sometimes feel this way as well. He has come a long way in understanding how my race has shaped my life, but I wonder if he can ever truly `get it’. I don’t feel it often because there are so many other things we have in common and we have struggled through so much together that barely anyone would be able to relate to us. Though I’m sure you can understand that it scares me. I feel like I am talking to a possible future version of myself.
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@ The world we live in,
There’s an entitlement there. To them, having a slightly smaller piece of the pie means they’re the “victims”. Even though they still get a larger piece than everyone else. Its just silly.
@ Dave,
Just stop dude. Your missing the point. No one said all whites are the same, unlike what you yourself have said many times about blacks. Seriously, you should stop grasping for straws so that you can claim some sort of victimhood here.
Okay I’m going to ask you questions, feel free to answer:
1. Would it be fair for a man to claim that a woman who’s complaining about unfair pay at work is somehow committing “reverse sexism” against him? If he ins’t sexist or supporting a sexist pay system, why would he even be offended?
2. Would it be logical for a straight person to claim that a gay persons right to marry the love of their life would somehow make them “reverse homophobic?” He enjoys every benefit of being straight and married, so how is he victimized by that gay man being happy or talking about the inequality he experiences?
Now if you think both of those situations are not logical or fair, then how can you claim that white people are victimized by blacks living their lives or talking about the racism they still experience? Isn’t that, by the nature of the subject, not only insensitive but sort of self-centered?
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Has anyone else ever wondered why White `race realists’ and so on come here? If they have so much faith in their superiority, why do they need to come here at all? Are they really trying to prove something to us (the inferior beings), or are they trying to prove something to themselves? Either way, they cannot believe in White=best too strongly else our thoughts and opinions would not be worth seeking out.
The thing about Science, and even Pseudo-Science, is that it must be tested again and again and again. The implication of the Scientific Method is “Nothing is True”, so they have to repeatedly verify their beliefs.
Some Race Realists are genuinely scientifically minded and are debatable, and beatable, so long as one knows enough historical and genetic facts. Others, like Bliff, just use the pseudo-science as a fortress and reject evidence to the contrary out of principle. Scum like that are unsalvageable, superstitious wastes of time, energy, and oxygen
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(con’t)
What Race Realists truly crave is to duke it out with an well informed Black wo/man and arrive at the truth, so they frequent sites with large amounts of Black traffic.
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Psychiatrist Grada Kilomba says that there is no such thing as true reverse racism: how can the oppressed oppress their oppressors? But if you make whites feel guilty about racism they will see you as the racist one to avoid facing the truth about themselves.
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@ace so you say that I’m the one who generalized against all blacks……..wrong. So you stop Pinocchio.
If a man worked for a sexist woman and domineering woman boss and said something about it then your generalization would work more in that case.
If I went into a gay bar with my wife by accident, and still stayed for a few beers and a gay bigot came up and said “GAYS ONLY BREEDER”, “WHAT ARE YOU DOING HERE” then I would have a right to call the guy on it. Does my being there over shadow the majority gay in the place no. Then your generalization would make more sense.
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am I A White Male? No, Im Mixed. But Society Deemed Me White, Due To My Skin
Oh Lord A Present Day Version Of That Movie ‘Immitation Of Life’. How’s It Going Peola?
im Tired Of Being Ashamed To Say Im Part Native Because Natives See Us As Nothing But Wannabes Trying To Be Native For Benefits .. Like Really, I Cant Even Be Proud Of My Native Side.
That’s Because You Probably Are. I’ve Met Your Ilk Before. Copping To Your Native Blood When It Is Advantageous To You. I Understand Why Natives Disdain You. Go Kiss The White Man’s Hairy Buttock.
i Cant Be Proud Of My European Side Either, Why? Because Of The Crap I Read Daily From People Of Colour Lumping And Blaming Whites For All The Atrocities And All The Problems Of The World, As If I Played Some Crucial Part.
That’s All Right Peola.
@Truthbetold:
I Theorize That These Hbders And Their Kin Secretly Lust Over Black Men Since They Serve As The Brunt Of Their Vitriol. It Is Bizarre How They Focus On Black Men’s Sexuality. It Reminds Me Of When I Was A Kid And Had A Crush On A Boy. I Would Pretend To Hate The Boy And Insult And Denigrate Him Whenever I Got The Chance. This Is The Same Kind Of Thinking These Buffoons Exhibit.
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@ Dave,
Yes you have. You’ve made many statements that have generalized all black people or supported stereotypes against them. Just because you don’t want to admit it doesn’t mean you didn’t.
“If I went into a gay bar with my wife by accident, and still stayed for a few beers and a gay bigot came up and said “GAYS ONLY BREEDER”, “WHAT ARE YOU DOING HERE” then I would have a right to call the guy on it. Does my being there over shadow the majority gay in the place no. Then your generalization would make more sense.”
Odd example considering that no one’s done that to you here in regards to racial discussion. The funny thing about these supposed “reverse discrimination” claims people make is that they are often so exaggerated that you see they’re trying to emulate the “whites only” stuff, they come up with the most over the top, dramatic examples because they can’t discuss real discrimination in a way that isn’t centered around them.
I doubt that happened, gay bars don’t work that way, I do frequent them. 🙂
Also, keep in mind you and your wife would enjoy the privileges and “honor” of marriage, could be with each other in the hospital, and until recently could openly write your wife overseas without being discharged from the military. Gay people cannot do those things. So yes, you’d be rather self-absorbed if you thought “Oh poor me!” about homophobia that still directly hurts them because YOU walked into a gay bar and weren’t put on a pedestal and given a cookie, especially when your rubbing your privilege right in their faces.
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@ace lets use the scenarios I laid out for a sec.
#1 after confronting the mean woman boss the woman then turns around and says”Well women have been under the foot of a man at the work place forever SO DEAL WITH IT , If you don’t like me being mean to you then your kids can freaking starve”
#2 after telling the gay guy “this is a free country man, me and my wife were about to leave , but now I think we will have a few more beers jer*k0ff” Then he says “You breeders can go anywhere and show affection in public…. we can’t so you can go anywhere else BUT HERE”…………would he have a point that I was maybe missing …….yes………..BUT THIS IS A FREE COUNTRY …….at least it used to be.
I’m not stopping you people from venting or saying what you want. You may not like white people and want to be away from them ………but you will have to accept we are stuck with each other……….Your stuck with us………..and were stuck with you.
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@ace it was a made up scenario It didn’t happen…………….wow. I figured you would get that. duh
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If the Gestapo rings my doorbell, drags my behind out of my house and takes me to a concentration camp and then you come in after and move in, you may not have sent me to that camp, but your behind is still living in my house.
NOW, DO YOU GET THE POINT?
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@ Dave,
(Cont)
I’m not justifying someone doing that in that situation, I am just explaining that it isn’t about you, especially when you still enjoy the privileges of being a white straight cisgendered man. Claiming your a victim just because someone talks about the constant discrimination they still face (which is even more frustrating because of the “freedom” western countries like to brag about) is just self-centered.
It sounds like,
“Oh poor me! I had to listen to those black/gay/women speak about something that affects them! Since they didn’t make sure to cater their experiences around making sure everyone knows (which should be an instant understanding) that not ALL white/straight/men agree with it, I’m the real victim here! Even though I just said something racist/homophobic/sexist!”
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@ace you jumped in the argument between me and truthbetold and some of my points are remnants of that. I never said YOU were the one who didn’t want me here.
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@someguy, I assure you I’m not living in your house, my landlord is a greek guy named Dante, he is a slumlord and I do all the repairs my self and get no credit for it wiseguy.
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Bigger picture Dave, bigger picture.
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@ Dave,
Lets be mature about our responses hm?
Also, see my (cont) for the rest of it. Also in my first response I even call out your example for not being a real one because of how exaggerated it is. My response is still the same.
“#1 after confronting the mean woman boss the woman then turns around and says”Well women have been under the foot of a man at the work place forever SO DEAL WITH IT , If you don’t like me being mean to you then your kids can freaking starve”
That doesn’t happen. See there are things called LAWS. Even hypothetically it couldn’t happen. Also, that would only work if women were really able to use that supposed “reversed discrimination” against men with support of a majority which would support the woman and punish the whistle blower. Men happen to enjoy that “support”, women often do not. It appears that you are trivializing the sexism women experience to be able to think of an example where a woman would say and do that, but that still doesn’t justify why you would be the center of a discussion held by women about sexism.
If a woman were assaulted by a misogynist, could you waltz in and claim she should check her speech so that she doesn’t’ generalize “all men”? No.
“#2 after telling the gay guy “this is a free country man, me and my wife were about to leave , but now I think we will have a few more beers jer*k0ff” Then he says “You breeders can go anywhere and show affection in public…. we can’t so you can go anywhere else BUT HERE”…………would he have a point that I was maybe missing …….yes………..BUT THIS IS A FREE COUNTRY …….at least it used to be.”
No because you’ve clearly misunderstood the issue that gays have with homophobic society. The fact that under the law they are given less protection, they cannot marry the person they’ve loved for years, couldn’t be with their dying partner in the hospital, etc. Not that they can’t walk down the street and be “open”. It isn’t a free country, not for them. Your trivializing the situation to make it seem like there’s an equal chance at discrimination when there just isn’t. And frankly that doesn’t explain why you would be the one they have to cater and focus their discussions around, especially since a “gay bar” isn’t the only place gays frequent. You’d be just as wrong expecting to play the victim in a discussion on homophobia in any venue.
“I’m not stopping you people from venting or saying what you want. You may not like white people and want to be away from them ………but you will have to accept we are stuck with each other……….Your stuck with us………..and were stuck with you.”
Um you don’t know if I like white people or not. You probably don’t even pay attention all the times I’ve mentioned my ethnicity. And if I can remember, it was white people who wanted the “separation” not anyone else. At least when it was convenient. And you’d make more sense saying something so ridiculous if you didn’t say racist things that would make someone who wasn’t white want to be away from you.
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Ok some guy bigger picture, I’m not sure where you are from I will assume you are american. Aren’t you also living on land that was once dominated by a different culture and you are living in their house same as me. It doesn’t matter that I happen to have less melanin then you.
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@ Dave,
You replied to my post, so if you wanted something to be sent to Truthbetold why not label it so? I am entitled to reply to you if I take issue with something you say, and I took plenty “issue” with your comments.
Okay, short version.
In non of your examples would you have the right to walk into a discussion on the discrimination they actually still experience and make it about you. You wouldn’t be right in telling them not to generalize you while at the same time defending racist ideas and statements. When they’re discussing what they go through, the last thing they’re going to be thinking about is how they’re going to spare your feelings, especially when you aren’t interested in even considering theirs. .
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@Ace………………….?YOU were the one who brought up those scenarios for why a man or a non gay person might get annoyed, so I quickly thought up those.
You are right gay people are cool and as long as you were cool with them they probably would buy me and my wife a beer.
I have taken the other side of the argument at times you are putting alot of words in my mouth
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@ Dave,
I’m indigenous, Black foot among other things mainly. I can tell you honestly that I’d equate it more to a person breaking in and squatting after a bad fight with their cousin, asking them to show the folks who live there how to make a sandwich, holding the residents hostage and then making them live in the shed out back.
I know that was at Someguy but honestly I had to respond to it. The fact that you’d bring up another oppressed group as if white and black people were equally responsible for their attempted genocide would be ludicrous if I didn’t find your “picture” hilarious.
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@ Dave
I think you are missing the point of my metaphor. I am referring to White Privilege in general.
You don’t have to actually wield power directly to benefit from it. If other Whites prey on Blacks and you gain by feeding off the scraps left over, you really don’t want to bite the hand that feeds you. Even if all you get is a swallow more than the average Black man or woman, that’s still an ounce of life you are denying someone else.
Of course, you’ll defend White culture. It sustains you… at the expense of others. Do I blame you? No. But don’t try to B.S. and say it’s something that it isn’t and that’s fair.
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@ Dave,
Yes I brought them up. I was making a point of whether or not you would have thought it was okay to hijack their discussion of the discrimination they face and attempt to either make it about you or make it less “offensive” to you. In all of those cases, when discussing the situation of the oppressed, it is unfair and insensitive to try to chide them on how they speak about their oppression. That is my point. I am not justifying harassing people, or openly trying to hurt people just because they look like the “oppressor”. No one here is.
Well, gays are individuals, and they deal with a lot of unfair treatment. And many of them have to sit there and watch people tell them what to feel or that they should make sure not to offend the “straight people”.
Now think about it, would that truly be fair to do to them? If they tell you that they were told they couldn’t be with their partner on their death bed, would you tell them to remember to “stop generalizing all straights! Your a reverse homophobe!” Or would you listen to what they have to say and reflect on the fact that something so important could be denied to someone purely based on the gender of their lover?
So why is it okay to do that to black people?
And no I respond to the things you say and do, like posting videos of black violence on threads about a black victim. Your no where as bad as Bliff with that, and at times you seem to “get it”, but then you say things like you have right up there and I wonder.
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@ace unless you studied my genealogy you couldn’t say me or someguy had anything to do with it or benefited less or more. and even if one branch of my family tree had someone who was directly responsible (I don’t know if if does or not) so could yours.
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@ace the Martin/Zimmerman case was getting out of hand- hence the video. When we first found out about that case I was arguing with destructure about that taking the Martin’s family side. Abagond had said several times he doesn’t post about black on white violence because the media over exaggerates it. Well after I felt the national news was ignoring what could have been high profile violence if it was the other way around,(black on white violence) I started to get pissed.
I felt that it was a little unfair. If you can’t understand that then we will just agree to disagree.
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@Ace “I’m indigenous, Black foot among other things mainly.”
Which tribe?
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@ Dave,
yes I can say that you, due to being white, benefited more from taking the land of indigenous people and denying them rights to anything but a tiny piece of it. even now there are people who think they are entitled to take reservation land, as if they hadn’t taken enough from indigenous people. Black people, on the other hand, were sort of in a different situation and couldn’t directly benefit on paper, monetarily, or land-wise. I would honestly know a bit about that…considering.
But then, discussing racism and it’s very real affects that exist every day isn’t really about which white person did what or who is directly responsible. The fact is that you, today, by perpetuating racist ideas are taking that responsibility and are doing it willingly. You are responsible because you ACT racist, not because you are white.
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@ace …I speak what’s on my mind same as you. I don’t hate anyone, and I don’t want the indians to lose their land any further……..again words in mouth.
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“You are responsible” ok man now I’m going to take issue with that. I come from Italian and Irish Immigrants who were lied to after the civil war to come here and be the new worker bees. Some made 2 dollars a week to work in factories and build roads and bridges and tunnels, etc. Don’t you think it’s a little convenient that the biggest wave of immigration came AFTER the civil war. Like they were the new slaves. Almost like SOME Mexican immigrants today getting taken advantage of with low wages. SO I’M NOT RESPONSIBLE OK>
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@ Dave,
“the Martin/Zimmerman case was getting out of hand- hence the video. When we first found out about that case I was arguing with destructure about that taking the Martin’s family side. Abagond had said several times he doesn’t post about black on white violence because the media over exaggerates it. Well after I felt the national news was ignoring what could have been high profile violence if it was the other way around,(black on white violence) I started to get pissed.”
Imagine the people telling you that you couldn’t be a victim because so and so was a black guy who happened to be a criminal? A bit worse.
But you weren’t making an argument or considering the situation (also keep in mind that discussing racism isn’t about justifying violence with violence). You were effectively derailing and providing an insensitive and racist point. Again, taking something about a victim of violence and denying their victimhood because you think people “ignore” black on white violence was not going to excuse “getting pissed”.
Its not a question of understanding, I get that you could be frustrated. But yet again, why take something about one person and his killer and their families and then go to justify that person’s death by showing black violence?
A lot of people have said they were angry when they made racist decisions or said racist things. But if you thought it was okay to do that, then you were already racist and just needed an excuse for it to come out.
@ Duckduckgoofs,
I am Blackfoot, Seminole, I have roots in a tribe in Venezuela and the Caribbean. That’s just the well known stuff. There’s a lot we don’t know about in our family.
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@ dave
I’m glad you mentioned that because you make a good point. The only thing keeping America from becoming a feudal system fueled by the toiling of millions of White serfs and peons is the presence of minorities. If Blacks and Mexicans weren’t here, there would be a whole lot of unhappy White folks around. Smart White people know better than to even suggest getting rid of that giant “buffer” between them and that looming scythe.
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*Shakes my head at Dave’s responses.*
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@ Dave,
I never said YOU did want indigenous people (NOT INDIANS) to lose their land. I said that even now people are trying to cash in that privilege, and many of those people are the same one’s who claim “We weren’t directly responsible” for stuff like slavery. It seems people like that are fine with taking advantage of past racist policy when it suits them, they only want to distance themselves when it can’t help them.
““You are responsible” ok man now I’m going to take issue with that. I come from Italian and Irish Immigrants who were lied to after the civil war to come here and be the new worker bees. Some made 2 dollars a week to work in factories and build roads and bridges and tunnels, etc. Don’t you think it’s a little convenient that the biggest wave of immigration came AFTER the civil war. Like they were the new slaves. Almost like SOME Mexican immigrants today getting taken advantage of with low wages. SO I’M NOT RESPONSIBLE OK>”
Oh please. You are responsible BECAUSE YOU ACT RACIST! How many times can I say that? Guess what? Imagine not being able to be paid at all, for hundreds of years? Imagine not being able to vote, or walk freely without being attacked, etc? They sure weren’t the “new slaves”, slavery implies that you didn’t get paid and were OWNED. Your attempt at oppression olympics doesn’t phase me. Look up complexion protection and tell me how many Irish took part in riots where black orphanages were targeted. If you want to go there. They actually got along pretty well until it was time to fight over money, then the good old skin color issue popped up. I don’t care if you’re ancestors helped with the Underground Railroad, if you act racist today, you don’t get to claim that you aren’t “responsible”.
It’s about personal responsibility. If you act racist, you are racist, and you can be called out for being racist. Being defensive and trying to tell people which “white people” to complain about just makes you seem insensitive and disinterested in real discussion of the subject.
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@someguy…..you are a gentleman and a scholar
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Ace and Someguy,
I had to deal with Dave’s responses for a long time. Believe me, you’ll end up going around in circles–deformed circles.
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@ace Guess what you can’t imagine that either because none of those things actually happened to you. So who HAD it worse is irrelevant, because you are riding the coat tails of the civil rights movement. YOU are responsible then as well because you obviously have disdain for white people. SO YOU ARe RESPONSIBLE by your logic.
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Hey brothawolf don’t act like I’m the one who needs help here . You need it alot more than me.
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Ok this is getting out of hand. Have a good night , I’m going to sleep.
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@ Dave,
Yes I can because it happened to my father 🙂 Growing up poor and hearing people talk about his “potential” due to his ethnicity and financial means sort of taught us a lesson about the hypocrisy of racism in this country.
I just told you what my ethnicities were. Even if I was black, how would talking about racism that people actually still experience mean I’m riding the coattails of anything? I have no disdain for white people and I would think me treating them like logical adults who can have discussions about things without freaking out like children and resorting to insults shows I at least have respect for them.
If you aren’t racist, don’t act racist. How hard is that to understand? You are responsible because YOU constantly say or do racist things. By doing those things, you are racist and therefore share responsibility for the state of a racist country.
Just because I disagree with you and your racist mindset doesn’t mean I have disdain for an entire race of people, some of who I probably am related to. Anyone with a brain can tell the difference between one white person and another, and calling out the racist ones doesn’t hurt the ones who aren’t.
How would I be responsible for racism in this country or the oppression past generations experienced just because I don’t think white people are the most important part of a discussion on RACISM?
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@ace one more thing, then I’ll go to bed. I don’t constantly do and say racist things. You perceive my defensive position as that. I am responding you alot of racism on here. again good night, I’m a little mad and lets just leave it at that. You were the one who talked down to me. Just because I’m white and I don’t butkiss doesn’t give you that right. Have a good one.
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@ Dave,
You’ve just now done what I told you you were doing in the first place. You managed to take a entire debate and focus it around whether or not you CONSTANTLY do racist things. It all went in one ear and out the other, and now you leave claiming YOUR the victim, yet again. The fact is thus: You’ve said racist things constantly on this blog. If you think not being racist = buttkissing then you didn’t learn a damn thing. I didn’t think talking down to you meant disagreeing with you in any way that doesn’t hold your hand and walk you through it. I rest my point.
@ Brothawolf,
I noticed. It’s so grating, to these people it’s either “we’re right” or “we’re not THAT bad”, it’s never, “well you have a point”.
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@abagond:
“Psychiatrist Grada Kilomba says that there is no such thing as true reverse racism: how can the oppressed oppress their oppressors? But if you make whites feel guilty about racism they will see you as the racist one to avoid facing the truth about themselves.”
I think that any racism displayed by minorities towards each other or towards anyone just reflects that racist System which they are part of as subjects. In a racist System it is very hard not to be effected by it since its basic message is imbedded into anything around you. You born into it and grow up in it and when you start to interact with other people it is in that social interaction too, so you will be conditioned from the get go in it.
Just like a child who has been growing up under violent parents grows up to be a violent grownup, anyone growing up in a racist System can grow up to be a racist of somesorts. I agree that this will be very subtle mostly, it can turn inwards etc. and I also agree that in a racist system the opressed do not have the power to become opressors and thus practice the power of racism. But the opressed can be brainwahsed by the System to embrace the Systems basic concepts and “truths”.
And I do not mean here that subjects are racists just like the opressor. I mean that those who are opressed can sometimes grow so much into the System that they believe its very basic notions and teachings, such as that there are different biological human races etc.
But I do agree with Garda Kilomba in that the opressed can not be opressors of their opressors while being opressed.
Hmmm, now theres a sentence 😀
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@ Sam & Abagond
I think this is an important distinction to reflect on in any discussion about Racism. Particular in how it relates to different people differently,.i.e.., Black, African-American, Asian, White, European etc..
Another way of viewing this would be to say there is no such thing as true reverse male sexism or true reverse homophobic hetero-sexism
These don’t work because they are ONE WAY! They are based on a perceived inequality which is set up to be experienced in one direction ONLY..
Its like driving your car down a one way street then suddenly reversing it and attempting to go in the other direction. Obviously you can’t! You would need to turn it into a TWO-WAY street before you could do this otherwise you would not get very far from the already oncoming traffic flow. You would find it impossible to continue driving and be in danger of causing, not just other cars but, your own car to crash in some hideous accident..
And this is the point about Racism. To refer to a Back person or POC (Or for them to refer to themselves) as being racist is to misuse and confuse the term in this context. Continuing with the driving down a one-way street analogy. You would have to first physically change the street into a two-way one before you could attempt to drive seriously. Just as Sam has correctly observed and commented:
This should just be common sense…!!!
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Thinks to himself, “Should I try? Why not? I’m bored as hell.”
David, David, David.
I don’t think anyone here has a disdain for white people, especially just because they are white. I know I told you that I don’t have a disdain for them over and over again. We don’t hate white people, but some of us don’t like YOU very much. Why? Because you’ve tried to derail posts with your black-on-white crime whine, black crime videos, and constant whining that gives clues that it’s not about us and our feelings toward white people, but it’s about us hurting your feelings.
Ace has tried to explain why that is simply disingenuous. Yet, you refuse to see why. You’ve turn it into an online argument about yourself when no one has ever said an unkind thing about you to start this. The fact is you started this when you tried to derail a post about Vincent Chin with what? Black-on-white crime. It had absolutely nothing to do with that subject. That’s why I responded.
If you don’t need help, Dave, then why are you taking it personally? Why are you including yourself in the subject of white racism?
As a side note you have shown your racist mindset on numerous occasions. So maybe, just maybe, it touched a nerve. Anyone confident in themselves wouldn’t have fallen into that pit. I admit I’m not always confident myself, but at least I admit to it.
I dunno about you. All I can say is that if you’re secure with yourself, you wouldn’t make this into an “all about me” thing. That is narcissism.
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dave wrote:
“I am responding you alot of racism on here.”
***************
Just in case you missed this:
“The only form of FUNCTIONAL RACISM that exists … is “White Supremacy.”
Neely Fuller
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Kwamla said:
I would agree with this assessment with regards to the particular context in which Dr. Kilomba defines the term “racism”.
However, that does not imply that the common definition of the term “racism” doesn’t also exist, or that non-white people cannot be “racist” under the broader common definition. I believe that people may misunderstand her work in this manner.
In other words, if a black landlord chooses not to rent a flat to a white person because of race, this would not meet Kilomba’s definition of the term “racism”, but that doesn’t mean that such an act isn’t discriminatory or morally objectionable. Kilomba’s use of term racism in a purely political context should not be considered a free pass to be a bigot.
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@ Randy
Nice to have some agreement on terms. In the same regard perhaps you could supply this “common” broader definition of the term “racism” which you believe exists. Because in my view this is where mis-understanding and mis-usage creeps in.
There is a big difference between a Black landlord choosing not to rent a flat to a perceived racist white person and one just happens to be white. Again. Acts of this type of discrimination rarely occur in this direction. (Remember the one-way street analogy)
I can this as being part of the difficult for you to accept. Any inequality in a system needs to be addressed first before you can have equal and opposite qualitatively described actions like Black bigot or white bigot.
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I beleive Brothawolf once said, and I agree with this, black people in America cant be racist…they can be bigoted or biased, but, not racist, since they didnt invent all the racist stuff that was fostered on them anyway. They have had to defend themselves from white racism.
I aways beleived black people couldnt be racist since they were back peddling to deal with it since the get go.
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@ Randy,
IMO If an oppressed party still is oppressed, often in very life altering ways, it seems rather disengenuous to compare them to their oppressor, as if they have an equal culpability.
” Kilomba’s use of term racism in a purely political context should not be considered a free pass to be a bigot.”
True, and I don’t think anyone would ever give a free pass to be a bigot. But if one form of bigotry exists because of another (anti-white resentment caused by anti-black racism, which is very common, in the law books, was for many generations, etc.) can we really try to view the two through the same context? If we consider that white people have the power to actually exercise bigotry (and have constantly taken the opportunity to) in ways that can affect people’s lives on whole (many examples are in the “first experiences” thread), and people of color usually cannot, it becomes a very complex issue.
I think, IMO People object to the idea of equating the oppressed with oppressors in societies where they are still the oppressed, not the idea that bigotry is wrong regardless of who commits it.
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@ everyone
Why do you fight with Dave?
It’s not worth it. I’d rather get my wisdom teeth pulled.
Only a white racist can interject himself into a passionate discussion about race and injustice and claim to be insulted and make it about their feelings.
Most whites have become so predictable, I can almost write a script on how they’ll respond, verbatim. Tyler Perry beware!
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@ Anyone
Ever been to Atlanta? My friend went there and told me about the overwhelming number of black based businesses and middle-upper class homes. How do we do that here? I’d love to open a small business and employ just us but with the economy, mortgage payments, food, bills…..not likely for now.
What is the secret? Did they band together and pool their money? I’d be willing to do that if my business partners had good credit, 650 or greater. I have so many ideas!!!!
Guys we need to put our heads together here….Black people CAN do it.
My uncle had a barber shop. My nephew worked for him after school. His wife baked cakes on the side and we all pitched in. We tried to keep the money within the family but there are so many damn regulations for a small business!!!!
By the time you’re done paying for “start-up” costs, attorney fees, accountants, rent, supplies and yes, TAXES, TAXES, TAXES, you have no real revenue left.
How can we pool our money together??????
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@truthbetold
Never been to Atlanta but I heard that land is cheap to buy out there. Maybe the costs are lower so it is easier to purchase a business. Then with a strong customer base and network the business can be maintained. I just feel that a lot of dedication and focus would have to go into it.
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@ deedee7789
Thanks. Money rules, right? We couldn’t move there because of family…but I’m wondering how to establish this here?
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You know what, guys?
I’m worn out.
Whites come here determined to spew black crime stats and we’re here trying to figure out how to improve our lives.
I’m leaving work early today.
For my mental health.
I need to be with my family.
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@brothawolf I never came here thinking “this is all about me” I have seen you get offended when people blatantly lie on you or hit you with an untrue argument. Ace was saying “you are responsible” for american indians getting their land stolen. I took that to heart. Wouldn’t you?
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I am saying did I somehow benefit years later……….maybe. But so do you and he.
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“am I A White Male? No, Im Mixed. But Society Deemed Me White, Due To My Skin
Oh Lord A Present Day Version Of That Movie ‘Immitation Of Life’. How’s It Going Peola?
im Tired Of Being Ashamed To Say Im Part Native Because Natives See Us As Nothing But Wannabes Trying To Be Native For Benefits .. Like Really, I Cant Even Be Proud Of My Native Side.
That’s Because You Probably Are. I’ve Met Your Ilk Before. Copping To Your Native Blood When It Is Advantageous To You. I Understand Why Natives Disdain You. Go Kiss The White Man’s Hairy Buttock.
i Cant Be Proud Of My European Side Either, Why? Because Of The Crap I Read Daily From People Of Colour Lumping And Blaming Whites For All The Atrocities And All The Problems Of The World, As If I Played Some Crucial Part.
That’s All Right Peola.”
@Herneith
I do love when you repond, and act as if you know anything about me.
No, I do not claim native ancestry to gain benefits, I wish to acknowledge and be proud of who I am, but it’s hard to when neither side wishes us to exist. Whites see me as nothing but a deluted white blood and natives seen me as nothing but a white man. Your post alone shows you side more on the native side, cause you’re no better than them or the ignorant whites.
I wonder if you will ever see what we have to deal with, especially the ones who are mixed white like me. Living in the white dominated western world told to pick a side, I want no part in being played by either side.
How would you feel if you were told you needed to pick one side and forget about the other? Do you think that removing a part of yourself somehow makes you full?
My white grandfather adopted my mother who was mixed back in the 60’s, not one family wanted to adopt her because to them, she was a mistake.
He did not care at all what she was, he saw her as a beautiful little baby girl who didn’t deserve to be treated as some inhuman savage. He told her to be happy with who she is and to never forget that special side of herself. My grandmother did the same, alway telling her to never feel ashamed when people openly spewed garbage about natives.
So to hear you say “Go Kiss The White Man’s Hairy Buttock.” is an insult to my grandfather and a personal insult to me. My response? Go to hell.
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Kwamla and Ace,
You appear to be making similar points. Systemic racism makes anti-black racism more likely than anti-white racism, and so should be acknowledged as such.
Let’s say for the sake of argument that this premise is granted. What does that say about the accountability of people in terms of how they treat others?
Should anyone be let off the hook for prejudice? What types of behaviors does this incentivize, and what resentments does it build?
People of all types abuse one another constantly and in a myriad forms. Instilling the idea that abuse from one group against another is more tolerable than the reverse due to historical reasons is ethically incongruous within a legal and social system which at least nominally guarantees equality.
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@Ace
If there’s a lot about your family you don’t know then you should probably look into it. My father is the only one in his family not born in Rosebud. So I know what I am. But I’ve met a lot of people over the years (both black and white) whove claimed to be part Native without any more evidence than “my grandma always said we was part indian.”
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@duckduckgoofs
“whove claimed to be part Native without any more evidence than “my grandma always said we was part indian.”
There’s a difference when it comes to me.
I know my fathers band, I know what I am. But we do not know what my mother is specifically. My father is an Algonkin(Algonquin) of the river desert band (still enrolled).
But the thing is, I’ve never be raised knowing anything about my culture, so I’m conflicted on how to engage it.
I want to learn about my other culture, but at the same time I’m conflicted because I specifically do not want to show up acting out as one of those stupid stereotypical whites who fake being native.
I’ve never sought out native status nor have I ever asked my dad (who I havn’t talked to in 13 years) to get me enrolled within the tribe specifically because I’ve heard from natives that their “tired” of whites trying to gain benefits (yes, I know some do so purposely in disregard for the natives) but I do not, nor even if I were to gain my native status would I wish to benefit from them.
I wish to be happy with myself, and for that to happen I need to be happy with my identity.
Being white looking obviously doesn’t help (Look at hern for the exact example of the bigotry mixed white people go through).
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@Randy
I would say that the solution to systemic racism is the creation of our own systems. Even if bigotry were to persist in each respective group, neither would have the power to negatively impact the other w/o conquest and destruction of the other. Interaction would still occur between racial lines in the exchange of goods and services, but there would probably be differences in employment demographics. I Once those systems are in place all that White people could do to us is call us names and hurt our feelings.
The only condition necessary is that White America cannot buy out our businesses and vice versa. Otherwise, systemic racism will persist so long as bigotry does.
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REST IN PEACE MCA
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MCA is what, exactly?
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MCA is one of the Beastie Boys.
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wow………….of the beastie boys
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@dave
REST IN PEACE MCA
Ditto
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@ Randy,
“Let’s say for the sake of argument that this premise is granted. What does that say about the accountability of people in terms of how they treat others?”
Nothing. Because no one is excusing bigotry against anyone. They’re just acknowledging that it’s problematic to claimed oppressed status when you are the oppressor. If we actually started holding racists really accountable for their actions, then we could focus on treating issues of racism from a “two way road” kind of perspective.
For example:
A gay man cannot legally marry. He might not like straight people because of the inequality and bigotry he’s experienced ever since he came out. Even though he shouldn’t be justified in treating straight people in an abusive manner, any straight person claiming to be “oppressed” by his behavior is being fundamentally dishonest, because they aren’t. Assuming they are white, they still have full rights under the law, their personhood is respected, and there is no systematic attempt to disenfranchise them. By the very definition, they are not “oppressed”.
“Should anyone be let off the hook for prejudice? What types of behaviors does this incentivize, and what resentments does it build?”
No, no one should, but if the resentment is only caused because of oppression, we have to examine that and treat the source, not treat the anti-white sentiment as the priority at the expense of fighting racism as a whole.
“People of all types abuse one another constantly and in a myriad forms. Instilling the idea that abuse from one group against another is more tolerable than the reverse due to historical reasons is ethically incongruous within a legal and social system which at least nominally guarantees equality.”
I don’t think the point is that one form of abuse is more tolerable than another. I think the point is that, while bigotry is always wrong, it isn’t correct to take anti-white resentment and put it in the same category as racism. It isn’t being done from a position of superiority, it has had no power over the lives of white people as a whole, and there were never laws in the books that supported anti-white initiatives. That’s the difference IMO.
But consider that this is not a system that garuntees equality, not if you are born with the wrong sexuality, gender or skin. If we aren’t going to focus on fixing these inequalities effectively then we can’t claim to be victims of the oppressed as if they have the same ability to oppress us as we do them. In the end, they’re still the ones who’s lives are at stake.
@ DuckDuckgoofs,
Is your implication that I’m just saying it cause my “grandma” said so?
She was actually Blackfoot, as was her mother before her. On my father’s side, his grandmother was Cherokee (on his mother’s side). My mother’s grandfather came from Venezuela. This is what we have actually traced and found record for in terms of indigenous roots.
@ Dave,
” I never came here thinking “this is all about me” I have seen you get offended when people blatantly lie on you or hit you with an untrue argument. Ace was saying “you are responsible” for american indians getting their land stolen. I took that to heart. Wouldn’t you?”
Oh please stop with the “poor me I’m the victim” bull. The first thing you did was claim people were generalizing all whites, etc. No one said YOU personally were responsible for indigenous people getting their land stolen. I know for a fact that was not what was said. We said YOU were responsible for racism because you constantly perpetuate it. No one “lied” on you and no one’s arguments were “untrue”. Stop taking stuff personally, just because someone talks about racism doesn’t mean it’s centered around YOU. You should really work on your reading comprehension.
@ Yawn,
“Being white looking obviously doesn’t help (Look at hern for the exact example of the bigotry mixed white people go through).”
Really?
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@ace sorry I read your story on your experience on white racism I assumed you were a man.
With that said you are being a little hostile against me. Maybe I wasn’t listening enough (obviously, I got your gender wrong) but neither are you. You are compounding any negative I say and putting your own spin on it and ignoring any positive.
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Dave,
You said “I never came here thinking “this is all about me” I have seen you get offended when people blatantly lie on you or hit you with an untrue argument. Ace was saying “you are responsible” for american indians getting their land stolen. I took that to heart. Wouldn’t you?”
The only time I got offended was when I dealt with the trolls that dropped by with their usual bull, and now, some of them are forever banned because of their foolishness not just towards me, but to everyone including Abagond.
And when did Ace ever say that “you were responsible” for the American Indians getting their land stolen?
The point is Dave is that I never tried to derail a post by something I felt was more important to me. I’ve never derailed a post where women were discussing their issues with sexual harassment because I felt offended and felt the need to correct them and tell them how and why they are wrong. That would be rude and insensitive of me to shut the women down by telling them how they offended me.
I’ve never interrupted a forum on violence against gays by telling them that as a heterosexual, I felt offended by their responses. Again, that would be low of me seeking sympathy at their expense.
Do you understand?
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@Ace
“Really?”
Yes, really. Like I said, anything I speak about gets taken as a slap to the face to anyone.
I spoke about my heritage, how fractured my indentity is and how I wish to regain what was supressed.
And she thinks she can say, she’s seen my “ilk” and I’m no different then any other whites claiming native ancrestry for benefits? No, sorry. I will not stand for that, not at all.
I’ve never, nor have I disrepected her racial background (don’t even know it) Nor have I called her out on anything she’s said related to such.
I wasn’t screwing around when I wrote my two posts up there, I was actually being as honest and as open as my own emotions permit me to.
So her sarcasm is not needed, nor will I stand by while she disrespects my views on my family, my racial identity crisis and laughs.
What she did was practically what any white bigot would do, run into the “experiences with white racism” and laugh at the comments crying foul, only difference is I’m white so she thinks it’s justified, it’s not.
I respected Abagond when he said not for whites to go and post in the white racism experience, so why can’t she respect me when I post about my own issues related partly to the subject?
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Yes brothawolf I understand. I even said that to Ace when she brought up a hypothetical scenario and I gave her my own that was a little more relevant I thought, we had a discussion about it. I then said well if you were cool with the gay people at the bar in that scenario that would never happen because people that have been excluded wouldn’t usually exclude. That does happen here though. With some people not all. Abagond isn’t one of them he usually is on the side of free speech.
There was a cross discussion with someguy where he had a metaphor about living in his house because white people stole it from the Indians. Ace jumped in on that and clarified it with me after I said “I was not responsible for that” she said I was not because of my ancestry, but because of my racist agenda. That is the truth , now she is saying she did not say that.
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@Yawn
I can understand wanting to embrace your native side. I identify as a Black woman. My mother is actually half-Aniyvwiya (Cherokee) and there is also some native ancestry on my father’s side. My maternal great-mother had loved ones that experienced the trail of tears and life on the reservation. She held me and loved me when I was a young child and tried to instill her culture into my mother but she passed before she could really tell all of her full history. I honestly want to reconnect with that part of my heritage but while I was in high school there was an article I read about some sort of “One-drop” rule in the Cherokee Nation where one drop of Black blood and you would never be considered Cherokee, I hope that it isn’t true but it did sting to read. It can be troubling but the best thing to do is just research and try to make connections on your own. There is nothing wrong with feeling attachment to all of your heritage. I speak some German and French because that is a way to connect (they are both on my father’s side). Just try to experience the language, culture, and food and see if there are any local events that you can take a part in or at least passively observe.
MCA died, oh wow I didn’t know he had cancer. RIP MCA.
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This is what my dad always told me. “Tell the truth” Your word is everything if you want people to respect you. That goes beyond color lines.
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@dave
Very nice quote. My father was the exact same way and believed in telling the truth even if it hurts. I’m just commenting on your quote not your discussion with other commenter.
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@ deedee
You are very lucky to know that much about the Indian side of your family. I know nothing and even now have been having trouble finding her death records. All her children are now dead. My grandfather died in 2006 and he was the oldest and last to die of her children. It just stinks not knowing enough about my ancestors.
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@Sharina
Do you at least know the specific group your ancestors fall into (like Blackfoot for example)? Also, knowing names might help too. Ancestry.com can cost money but it can help with identifying ancestors and they have free accounts as well. As long as you know the group then maybe you can make connections online or find events in your town to take part in. I’m sure you can find a way to get back connected with that part of your ancestry. just don’t give up 😀 .
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@ deedee
I have even had trouble with the black side of my family. My grandmothers mother gave her away to someone and we have been looking for her with no luck.
As far as the Indian side I am going to have to get the information from a few of my relatives that have been hoarding it like it is some kind of well kept secret. They have pictures of her and everything and any time I ask them about it they have some type of excuse. Some times I actually feel like they refuse to acknowledge her existence. The O’bannon part of my family has a long history and seems to be well acknowledged though. It could just be the mentality that once you get married you disappear into the family you marry into.
I just finished with my dads family so it will be good to circle back around to my moms.
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@ Yawn
How odd. I though White folks LOVED Native Americans. I’m into genealogy and see plenty of White people go on and on about how they are related to “princess” Pocahontas.
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RIP Adam ‘MCA’ Yauch. I still have the Beatie Boys first album on vinyl, I bought back in ’86. I wore that thing out!
I may have a B.B. listening marathon.
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@Someguy
Me too. ‘Licensed to Ill’ . I was one of the first in my school to have it in this format. This was all due to my American connections 🙂
I love this track of the album…
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oB0NM6reiRE&ob=av2n)
How bout you?
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@Anyone,
I might have already posted this but i think it is genius. There needs to be more music like this.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zc4F7mYFw24)
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@Demerera
“Pass The Mic”
If You Can Feel What I’m Feeling Then It’s A Musical Masterpiece
If You Can Hear What I’m Dealing With Then That’s Cool At Least
What’s Running Through My Mind Comes Through In My Walk
True Feelings Are Shown From The Way That I Talk
And This Is Me Y’All, I M.C. Y’All
My Name Is M.C.A. And I Still Do What I Please
And Now I’d Like To Introduce what’s up?
I’ll Pass The Mic To D. For A Fist Full Of Truth
The Name Is D. Y’All And I Don’t Play
And I Can Rock A Block Party ‘Til Your Hair Turns Grey
So, What You Sayin’? I Explode On Site
I’m Like Jimmy Walker I’m Dynomite
And Now I’d Like To Pass The Mic
To Adrock C’mon And Do Anything You Like
I’m The A.D.R.O.C.K.
In The Place With The Bass I’m Going All The Way
I Can’t Stop Y’All Tock Tick Y’All
And If You Think That You’re Slick You’ll Catch A Brick Y’All
‘Cause I’m A Turn It In And I’m A Turn It Out
But Now I’ve Got To Pass The Mic To Yauch
Well On And On And On And On I Can’t Stop Y’All ‘Til The Early Morn’
So Rock Rock Y’All Tick Tock Y’All To The Beat Y’All
C’mon And Rock Y’All
I Give Thanks For Inspiration It Guides My Mind Along The Way
A Lot Of People Get Jealous, They’re Talking About Me
But That’s Just ‘Cause They Haven’t Got A Thing To Say
Everybody’s Rapping Like It’s A Commercial
Actin’ Like Life Is A Big Commercial
So This Is What I’ve Got To Say To You All
Be True To Yourself And You Will Never Fall
And Now I’d Like To Pass The Mic To The A
So What’s Your Name, Yauch? My Name Is M.C.A.
I’ve Been Coming To Where I Am From The Get Go
Find That I Can Groove With The Beat When I Let Go
So Put Your Worries On Hold
Get Up And Groove With The Rhythm In Your Soul
And Now I’d Like To Pass The Mic
To My Brother Adrock C’mon And Shine Like A Light
Yes Yes Y’All And Yes Yes Y’All
I’m Always On Time Never The Less Y’All
And That’s Right Y’All, I Shed Light Y’All
I’ve Got No Time In My Life To Get Uptight Y’All
So What You Gonna Say That I Don’t Know Already?
I’m Like Clyde And I’m Rockin’ Steady
But Time Flies When You’re Having Fun
So Mike D That’s Me C’mon And Get Some
M.I.K.E. To The D.
You Come And See Me And You Pay A Fee
Do What I Do Professionally
To Tell The Truth I Am Exactly What I Want To Be
Now Ad-Rock Huh? And M.C.A. Yeh?
Let’s Rock This Joint In The Old School Way
Well I’m On ‘Til The Crack Of Dawn
Mowing Down M.C.’s Like I’m Mowing A Lawn
I Go Off Like Nothing Can Phase Me
You Think We’ll Ever Meet Stevie? One Of These Days, D.
But I Can Stand My Ground And I Am Down
To Wax An M.C. Who Acts Like A Clown
But For Now, I’d Like To Ask You How
You Like The Feel Of The Bass In Your Face In The Crowd
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@demerera “Pass the Mic”
“sure shot”
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….
@dave
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WzfxjPcgtU&feature=fvst)
@JT
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrn84IfjAvM)
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@Demerera, that was cool
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Beastie Boys – Root Down
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@Demerera “root down”
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@ Demerera,
That was nice. Thanks!
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4_fDhMzmTQ&feature=related)
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@JT
Try not to laugh at the 1970’s fashions…
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxFg9bg5Ofs) 🙂
& something to soothe you for sleep (well, its certainly my bedtime anyway lol)
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0Kllwz0Pnc)
@dave
Showing my age
@et all
Another one from you ‘Yuff’
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0dxhSPoBjY)
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How do I post without making the video come up, only the link?
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@ SomeGuy
Put the link inside parentheses, like Demerera just did.
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@ abagond
Thanks.
Well, then. One of my favorite Beastie Boys songs has to be this classic:
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OR66VNY6gbk)
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(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OR66VNY6gbk)
One of my favorites.
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@ Bro wolf
Well I worked there for three years. I had 24 students in my unit at all times. Out of 24 students, maybe 6 blacks were the highest we had in at any one time. Most of the black kids were there for being sexually active with girls that were 2 to three years younger than them (statutory rape). In Alabama you have to be 16 to consent to sex and you can’t have sex with anyone 16 and under if you are 18. Out of 3 years maybe 4 black kids were in there for sexual harassment of a child under 10. All of the white youth except 5 out of three years were there for sex with a child under 10 and I had 2 who were getting counseling for bestiality. Some of these kids had over 5 victims and about 70% was homosexual in nature. But that is not the kind of stats they like to publicize. I can tell you some stuff that would make you want to keep your kids locked in the house 24 hours a day. Everyone who worked there knew the truth. We lived in the blackest city in Alabama and 85% of our residents were white.
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@ Cleonette
Thanks for telling us that.
In NJ at this one hospital, the ward across the street (criminal) was divided into groups. The sex offenders group was on constant lockdown. No female officers were present or nurses.
In that ward, all but one were white males under 30.
The “sickest” resident was this white kid who molested a baby. Yes, baby, as in a few months old.
Cleonette, I feel that white America intentionally glosses over this epidemic.
After all, can’t be morally good, Puritan folks and rape kids, can you?
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That was the hardest job I ever had. I love kids and even though they did some very bad things to get there, I just couldn’t give up on them. I am the type that would sit down, talk, and reason with them when they broke the rules while my co-workers would just yell and send them to lock up. They would tell me I was wasting my breath talking to those kids. Most of my co-workers hated me because the kids actually respected me. But I admit it was sometimes very hard for me when a kid came up to me to ask for advice and I knew that this kid raped 7 boys between the ages of 7 and 9 in his neighborhood for a whole year before he was caught. The funny part is, only the black kid’s crime was published in the newspaper. We knew black kids were coming to us from reading the newspaper.
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@ Truthbetold
We were not really allowed to discuss it being that it was a juvenile and most of them were minors. I am being 100% truthful when I say the most heinous sex crimes were committed by whites. I remember two of them who I was absolutely terrified of. The counseling program usually last about 18 months but we had some kids that didn’t leave until they were 20 years old! We had this one kid who was liked lil black girls and we couldn’t bring in pictures or magazines with pictures of young black children because he would steal them and use them to masturbate. He stole one of the other kid’s picture of his little 6 year old sister and we had to put the black kid in handcuffs to keep him for killing him. We had kids into witchcraft playing out sexual rituals on lil kids. It was scary. I was afraid to be alone with some of these kids. I don’t know why they were like that and I don’t think it was because they were white but something about their culture.
Another funny thing is we had a lot of white kids that couldn’t read. I was so shocked because here in Alabama they act like the blacks are so dumb but these kids didn’t know how to read or write. They also had a lotttttttttt of incest in their families.
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(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BptQHAW2T5M&feature=relmfu)
Beastie Boys- Shake your rump
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@clenoette while doing an Arte Johnson impression
Very Interesting.
*Reverts back to his regular speak.*
It doesn’t surprise me that they would publish a crime committed by a black kid over the crimes the white kid did. Another commenter mentioned she worked in the news and there was a case dealing with rape. The culprit was a white man. I don’t know all of the details, but this commenter said that the story was never revealed to the public. It got me thinking about what other crimes whites have done that were covered up by the news.
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@ brothawolf
I know that crime are covered up from that same job. Even when incidents happened at my job was covered by the news it was glossed over so bad that me and my co-workers started call news “The Comics” and the comics “The News”.
We had this one kid escape from the facility. The kid was there for murder and he was being kept in the psych ward on arrival w/ recommendations. All of the black kids that enter the psych ward w/ recommendation either stayed there the entire time or at least did 6 weeks before they entered population. This kid was let out after 2 weeks and was allowed to take welding! He ending up building a makeshift ladder and escaping.
He made it all the way to west Mississippi before they caught him. They only caught him because his sister (or girlfriend) got scared and called her parents. They reported in the newspaper about his escape. They said he was in for truancy and left because he missed his family.
Ironically, the building that they use as the administration building previously housed in 1911 the Alabama Reform School for Juvenile Negro Law-Breakers which forced young black kids to work on a farm that was 780 acres. Many they worked until they died. There is a grave yard with these kids buried that died still there in the middle of the place. I walked by it everyday. It’s super creepy. You can look it up yourself.
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Sorry for grammar. I was typing from my phone. “Is” instead of “are”, etc., etc.
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@brothawolf
Oh no, they’re catching on to Karazin:
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6q0EaVQ5tk)
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“It was scary. I was afraid to be alone with some of these kids. I don’t know why they were like that and I don’t think it was because they were white but something about their culture.”
*********************
Cleonette – you are so on the right track!
Perhaps Lillian Smith’s 1949 memoir about her Southern upbringing, Killers of the Dream, might shed some MORE light on “their culture.”
http://stuffwhitepeopledo.blogspot.com/2008/05/saturday-book-rec-killers-of-dream.html
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@ Matari
I am telling you, there is something very wrong. The sexual deviance present in these kids was insane. I don’t know what it was about me that made them so readily confide in me, but I did try to be someone they could vent too. I often got way more than I bargained for. The incest was the most disturbing. They also experimented with drugs more and at an earlier age. They were more likely to be cocaine and heroin addicts where as black kids only tested for marijuana if at all.
The black kids had more general behavioral issues, but they white kids were the worst in counseling. I am not talking out of my butt. I am talking about clinical psychologist who were white, communicating with us residential care counselors telling us that black kids benefited more from therapy than white kids. I think it pained some of them to tell us the truth, but we were forced to share accurate information so that we could do our jobs effectively. I can’t remember all that was said; something about moral aptitudes, apathy, emotional intelligence, and dependence. That was four years ago. I just know that if what I knew was public knowledge, these so-called race realist would rethink a lot of these stats. Working there was making me physically ill. I had to leave. The is an overall high turn-over rate with the sex offender units.
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@ Matari and Cleonette
I’ve always wondered why white males are obsessed with black male privates.
Reading the link you provided, explains somewhat, where the deviant behaviour comes from.
White males are the largest consumers of interracial porn, rape fantasies, porn with animals and “snuff” film obsession. Movies like Hostel, Saw, I Spit on your Grave are loved primarily by white young males everywhere.
I had this one white co-worker who confided in me her husbands fantasy to have a male Negro prostitute bed her while he watched. It seems to be the thing to catch your wife in congress with the Mandingo.
Somewhere in the minds of whites, they “went wrong”. Last night, I was reading an interpretation of the mind of a functioning sociopath. They are not the Bundy /Manson type we imagine them to be.
They are glib, charming, well-educated, able to say just the right things you NEED to hear, all without having any emotional ability. Some commenters here fit that to a tee.
When you challenge them, the commenters on this blog, they fly into a rage, deflect, unable to absorb anything you say for it pains them.
The obsession with dark skin is as American as apple pie.
Yet, even to themselves, they are unaware of said feelings. Jay from philly fits that mind frame perfectly as well as some others here.
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My grandfather died in 1999; he was born in 1899. He told us lots and lots of things about those times and more recent times. I remember we were told that when they lynched black men, they would cut off their penis. Sometimes they would put it in their mouth and even save it as a souvenir. The legend that black men have big penises was not started by black men, but white men who lynched hundreds and hundreds of black men. We were shocked. Never heard that before until then. He told us so much. He was in sound mind up until the day he died. He was always an old man to me as I was born in the 80s. I was much older before I realized what these stories really meant.
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Truthbetold
Stuffwhitepeopledo was my other favorite site regarding RACE. Like this site, it gave tremendous validation to many of the peculiar experiences I had with many whites. I commend the blog owner, MaconD, an unusual white guy, for his bravery and courage in uncovering a long list of pathologies common to so-called white people.
Most of the threads/posts on that site has quite a few comments. I find it interesting, and very telling, that the thread about Lillian Smith’s work/book review has hardly any comments. It’s like what Cleonette mentioned about how the doctors at the facility she worked at hesitated to go there… and why these sexually deviant crimes by white youths are largely covered up, unexamined and ignored by the white mainstream media. It’s the gigantic elephant in the room that hardly anyone white wants to see, much less discuss.
Whiteness (white supremacy/racism) creates monsters and monstrosities – regardless of group affiliation, skin color, religion or creed. That’s why it’s terribly demonic. And it’s not going to get any better until white people begin to face their own demons.
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The sexual deviance present in these kids was insane.
Heh, so much for r/K selection theory
Another one bites the dust!
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cleonette,
It would be a documentary worth filming if I had grant money, a camera, and some filming and editing experience. It could be called “Two-Tone News: Race in media reporting.”
As far as the sexual deviance in white males are concerned, I talked to another commenter (matari or bulanik) about how some of the white racist trolls that pop up love to refer to the myth that white women are being savagely raped by the hundreds or even thousands by black males. I guessed that (at least) some of them are not as concerned as they portray themselves to be, but are actually into that kind of stuff (the cuckold fantasy).
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@brothawolf
You don’t need grant money. Just get a decent camera, a friendly film student, and go at it!
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truthbetold,
I definitely see that rage with Inconvenient Truth. A couple of weeks ago, he was challenged. He got upset as evident through the capitalized letters and numerous exclamation points. He was so mad he said he would never come back.
A couple of days ago, I.T. shows up, still heavily racist and still emotionally fragile. It’s so bad, he did nothing but confirm the post he trolled with his rantings, not to mention other similar posts. He said he’ll be back in a few days, but returns hours or minutes later.
I.T. is in critical condition with his whiteness.
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D.
I see.
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Incest is reported differently and often not reported at all. Think about that for a minute.
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Also, another stat people don’t like, 97% of rapist will never spend a day in jail. Considering what we know about the racial make-up in prisons, we can come to a pretty obvious conclusion of who most of this 97% is. People really don’t know because this is not mainstream knowledge. You have to talk to people who work in the system, like human resources, child services, etc, to get the real info. The stats you see are designed for the general public to fit into what is believed in society. I know the reality. I could tell you some things that would blow your mind.
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Well, you could tell in the body language and facial features. They always followed up particularly dreadful information about white kids with a bunch of excuses about how the family was poor or “this is not typical, but this kids is very disturbed” type context. Out of the 10 therapist about 3 were black. majority of the residential counselors (me included) were black. They didn’t want to talk about the white kids with us. We often had to just read their files ourselves. The black therapist usually gave it to us straight with no favoritism for any particular race and maybe 3 of the white ones.
The parental characteristics was very broad from child to child. The black kids were what was expected I guess; low income, single and working parenting, lack of supervision, a few drug addicts. White kids: troubled home, confused family background from incest, history or abuse, drugs, lack of supervision, single and working parent, family history of sexual deviance, unreported sexual abuse was big too. They were more likely to have multiple victims before being adjudicated. The program was accountability-based, but many of them had trouble with apathy towards their victims; more likely to blame the victim. It’s difficult to counsel someone who believes a 6 year old girl seduced them. This was a reoccurring problem. I can’t explain it. My background is social science/sociology, not psychology so its difficult for me to put into words.
For example, we had this kid who victimized 4 boys in his neighborhood. The boys were all in second grade. He created this fantasy in which he told the boys that he could receive magic powers from performing oral sex on them. This went on for months until one kid told. In counseling, this kid actually think because he didn’t penetrate the boys he shouldn’t be there. He feels like the boys got pleasure from him. He refused to admit that he sexually abused the kids and said the only way he would stop “loving kids” was if he was castrated. He “completed” 24 months and was released. Scary huh? His parents: educated, well off, two parent home, was shocked and attempted to pay off the parents of the victims. This same kid also claimed that he could pick up radio waves and tell what song is playing on any radio station.
Another kid, has intercourse with his niece along with this brothers and father. She’s nine and contracts an STD for one of them, causing all of them to get infected. This is how the case was discovered. The kid was 16 and had never seen a black individual in person until he came to the facility. He asked if he could touch out skin. Could not read nor write. He couldn’t even write his name not recognize it written in paper. His father was also his grandfather. Mind you this was in 2007. He was bi-sexual and sado. Recommendations included preventing him from contact with objects that could be potentially placed inside of his anus. Sick stuff. He had a particularly nasty incidence with a plunger during school hours that sent him to the hospital.
See why I quit and don’t really like to talk about it?
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You say whites are obsessed with black male deviance. But the comments sound like you’re the ones with the obsession. I’d like to see some evidence to support some of Cleonette’s claims. Oh, silly me. Stats are racist. I guess we’ll just have to take her word for it.
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Believe what you want to believe Duck. I don’t have to prove anything to you. You can just go work there yourself. They are always hiring. I’m not saying this stuff to prove anything. Just wondering why its not talked about. I was in a position to help these kids. Who needs stats when you have facts anyways? That’s like depending on a stat to determine if you have milk and cheese in the fridge when you can just open the door and look inside. I am not talking about a bunch of news reports and things I heard. The were people, teenagers I knew and interacted with on a daily basis. Why would I need a stat to discuss a personal observation? That’s irrational.
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@ Duckduckgoofs,
Didn’t she actually back up what she was saying with long paragraphs detailing her conclusions and the situations she was working in? I don’t recall her resorting to “statistics” like the sort who goes on Stormfront and copies and pastes the “statistic of the week” in their comments here.
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Cleonette
We’re not talking about looking in the refrigerator for milk and cheese. We’re talking about transgressions for which records are kept. If kids are referred to a facility then there is a record of it. After all, Cleonette herself said that it was mostly whites in the facility. So the records would reflect that right?
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@ Duckduckgoofs,
So are you asking for her to actually show you these records?
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@Ace
Not at all. Even if she had access to the facility’s records it would probably be prohibited. But if she’s going to suggest whites are more likely to be pedophiles (which is a common smear among black racists) then I’d like to see some evidence to support it.
I grew up in an area with a lot of blacks. I knew two black girls who were knocked up by their fathers at 14 and 15 years of age. But I didn’t make any claims or draw any conclusions off it. If she wants to make the claims and draw the conclusions then lets see some data. But noooooooo cuz she says she “doesn’t have to prove anything” to me. How convenient.
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@ Duckduckgoofs,
Well your first problem is making the mistake of equating black with racist. That that’s a disingenuous term, explained further up. If your goal is grasping for straws to portray her as a “racist” on the level with an actual one, I don’t think that’s a logical point to make, it’s never a good idea to equate a member of an oppressed group with their respective oppressor.
According to statistics, white people are more “likely” to be “pedophiles” but since they do not favor white people these are often overlooked in favor of focusing on statistics that paint black people (and other visual and sexual minorities) poorly. Statistics can be used to draw all manner of conclusions, and shouldn’t be used to predict the nature or potential of any race. Why is one better to use than the other? Why are you so put off by her making that claim but not the claims Inconvenient Truth made?
On your last point, I’d say fair enough if you didn’t do just that in other threads. You can’t really say, “I lived with x people and I didn’t draw any conclusions”, because you have. Haven’t you made blanket “claims” about all black people in other threads, without evidence? Also, is it wise to use the example of the few black people you knew (I’m giving you the benefit of the doubt in regards to your claim of growing up around a lot of black people) in order to compare your own actions to Cleonette? That seems sort of like “I had black friends”.
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@Ace
Well your first problem is making the mistake that I consider the “oppressed group with their respective oppressor” discourse anything other than the prejudicial propaganda that it is.
According to statistics, white people are more “likely” to be “pedophiles” but since they do not favor white people these are often overlooked
Excellent. Then someone should be able to provide a source for those stats.
Haven’t you made blanket “claims” about all black people in other threads, without evidence?
It’s possible. I don’t recall.
(I’m giving you the benefit of the doubt in regards to your claim of growing up around a lot of black people) in order to compare your own actions to Cleonette? That seems sort of like “I had black friends”.
Is growing up around a lot of blacks any stranger than your growing up around a lot of whites?
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@ Duckduckgoofs,
“Well your first problem is making the mistake that I consider the “oppressed group with their respective oppressor” discourse anything other than the prejudicial propaganda that it is.”
I don’t see how that’s prejudicial propaganda when calling a black person “racist” is just a nasty thing to say to someone when you claim to want “discussion” on the topic of race. Why is the “prejudicial propaganda” you and others have said any more acceptable?
“Excellent. Then someone should be able to provide a source for those stats”
Well, I remember her giving specific cases in her posts up there. I’m not here to argue whether or not white people are more likely to be pedophiles, but the fact that you take issue with that “statistic” but not ones that affect black people is what is catching my attention. I would suggest finding a credible source for the claims you have made in other threads, ones that are not listed on sites with a racial or conservative bias, and then maybe it would be fair to demand someone else do the same. Again, in case you missed my question, why take issue with Cleonette’s statements and not others?
By that extent, why is it okay to use statistics and prejudicial facts to make statements about black people, but you call it a “smear” when it is done in a way which doesn’t help white people?
“t’s possible. I don’t recall.”
So then why expect Cleonette to provide you a courtesy you have no intent on honoring yourself? You’ve said blanket statements in other threads, after all.
“Is growing up around a lot of blacks any stranger than your growing up around a lot of whites?”
Absolutely not. So I’m giving you the benefit of the doubt in claiming you grew up with black people since I’ve grown up around white people. But if your going to make blanket negative statements about black people it’s not really in good form to come up later on and claim that you “grew up with them”. Not trying to attack you, but it seems like you pulled that out of left field specifically to get a talking point over Cleonette, because that “open mind” sure didn’t keep you from stereotyping black people in other threads.
Speaking of that…why the example of the two teen mothers? Why does you not coming to a conclusion about their race prove anything if you did just that on this blog before? How does that compare to Cleonette’s work experience? I’m just having some trouble understanding why that part was even needed, if you really just didn’t like someone using statistics in a way that could be deemed prejudicial.
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Doug is GONE!!! One less “race realist” to deal with.
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@ Ace I don’t see how that’s prejudicial propaganda when calling a black person “racist” is just a nasty thing to say to someone when you claim to want “discussion” on the topic of race. Why is the “prejudicial propaganda” you and others have said any more acceptable?
When did I call her racist? And why is it only nasty to call a black person “racist”?
I would suggest finding a credible source for the claims you have made in other threads, ones that are not listed on sites with a racial or conservative bias, and then maybe it would be fair to demand someone else do the same. Again, in case you missed my question, why take issue with Cleonette’s statements and not others?
I always use mainstream sources. And the reason I’m asking Cleonette for evidence and not others is that I’m generally already familiar with the evidence for others’ claims. I am not however aware of any evidence that supports hers.
By that extent, why is it okay to use statistics and prejudicial facts to make statements about black people, but you call it a “smear” when it is done in a way which doesn’t help white people?
I have no problem with statistics or facts critical of whites as long as they’re reasonable. My problem is with unrealistic claims lacking supporting evidence.
So then why expect Cleonette to provide you a courtesy you have no intent on honoring yourself? You’ve said blanket statements in other threads, after all.
I didn’t say that I had. You did. I don’t recall doing it.
Speaking of that…why the example of the two teen mothers? Why does you not coming to a conclusion about their race prove anything if you did just that on this blog before? How does that compare to Cleonette’s work experience? I’m just having some trouble understanding why that part was even needed, if you really just didn’t like someone using statistics in a way that could be deemed prejudicial.
My example was to illustrate anecdotal evidence can’t always be extrapolated to large groups. I have no problem with statistics or facts as long as they’re reasonable. But she didn’t provide any.
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“When did I call her racist? And why is it only nasty to call a black person “racist”?”
Well firstly, my point was that you had said her statements were the same ones that “black racists” use, but you didn’t openly take issue with what was said by actual racists on this site, and sometimes you’ve argued in favor of what they said.
It isn’t only nasty to call a black person racist. I would agree with you on that part. But it’s nasty to call a person of color who has experienced racism a racist, not to mention it’s illogical to put the oppressed in the position of the oppressor. For a black person to be racist they would have to have a position of superiority and the power to act on that racism. It be like calling a gay person a “heterophobe”. How can they be a “heterophobe”? How can they limit the rights and quality of life of straight people?
To give you some context, I’m a mixed race PoC who happens to be LGBTQ, so I’m not throwing that out there as an excuse to argue.
“I have no problem with statistics or facts critical of whites as long as they’re reasonable. My problem is with unrealistic claims lacking supporting evidence.”
Fair enough. No one wants to see statistics of “facts” critical of entire races of people, especially if they can’t be reasonable. By their very nature they’re unrealistic. In that case, what part of what she said seemed like just her making baseless claims using numbers that match something a “black racist” has said? I saw her relating specific cases and talking about the fact that white criminality is often overlooked in favor of focusing on black criminality.
“I didn’t say that I had. You did. I don’t recall doing it.”
But is that an excuse? I’d say that many people say bad things and then conveniently “don’t recall”, but I’ll just go under the assumption that you really don’t recall.
If so, I do believe you posted in one of the Trayvon/Zimmerman threads, where you proceeded to make blanket statements on the nature and objectiveness of all black people.
“My example was to illustrate anecdotal evidence can’t always be extrapolated to large groups. I have no problem with statistics or facts as long as they’re reasonable. But she didn’t provide any.”
Which I agree with in principle. I’ve never liked the idea of using a control population to come to conclusions about an entire group of people. I just took issue with the fact that it seemed like you were specifically bringing up these “examples” because Cleonette was black, combine this with what you’d said in earlier threads it just seemed like an odd time to introduce that as an example. Also, it begs me to answer that: If you believe that, which I do, why not show this much ire at people like Inconvenient Truth?
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@Anyone, Everyone et al
Having just looked at the conversations on the ‘Should George Zimmerman be arrested’ thread and seeing the demise of Doug, I am struck by one thing – with individuals of this ilk, the truth will ALWAYS out.
This is a stark reality to me, a reminder that my cynicism towards certain commenters is not always unfounded. Its the same in real life when you instinctively know that some one is judging you for what you look like, the hue of your skin and other superficial things that don’t even scratch the surface in terms of who you really are as an individual.
Believe it or not, it is quite a leap of faith to comment on a public forum in this way. There is a certain element of revelation involved, trust even in terms of explaining something that has happened to you in the past and using it to either demonstrate give an example of something.
I think that some of the white commenters on here really do not appreciate or value the ability to engage in sometimes contentious, controversial and probing discussions regarding race with PoC. Too many times of late, this is being abused. It is my sense of this that makes me unwilling to share certain things on the ‘What was your first experience of racism’ – I do not have enough trust or faith that these stories are being used to inform behaviour in commenters who do not have any ideas of the black experience growing up.
Doug was always one post away from being banned. His barely concealed contempt for black people coupled with his cowardly fear for PoC was disturbing to watch.
Is anyone on here genuinely surprised that Doug was banned? Do you think the deterioration in comments and the overt lack of respect demonstrated by other white commenters should have seen them be banned or just banned on certain threads?
Most importantly, has anyone learned anything of value from their interactions with those past and the pretenders and contenders to Doug et al still present?
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@Ace…
I’d like to commend you for your efforts in taking the time to diligently breakdown the obviously blatant racial bias inherent in “duckduckgoofs” comments. A common trait in individuals like “duck” is their lack of personal accountability or integrity. While Its easy to read in your own comments the pains at which you’ve gone to ensure “Fair-mindedness” and “Reasonableness” in your responses. The same courtesy cannot be said for this individual. In fact this is another common lack of trait often displayed. They claim “Fair-mindedness” and “Reasonableness” but then are unable to show it in their comments expressed. Further…they believe they have some kind of inbuilt judge and jury super power which allows them (and only them) to preside over what constitutes reasonableness!!! LOL!!!
This is best summed up by this exchange I read between the two of you:
The responses offered in reply by “duckduckgoofs” are truly and utterly PATHETIC! and I personally wouldn’t on this basis bother entertaining them anymore. But I can appreciate that this is not my call to make.
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@ Cleonette
I would also like to commend you for sharing your detailed “First-hand” accounts working as a social worker on the behavioral pathologies of the white and black inmates you encountered in institutions.
Accounts like yours are so important when most of us not directly involved in these institutions have only statistical references to draw from. Statistics, which, as we have seen in evidence all over this blog, can be used to masquerade a multitude of unspoken and deplorable behavioral practices amongst white people. I found this to be shocking and revelatory.
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@ Kwamla,
Thanks. There was clearly a racial bias in his reasoning (especially evident in previous posts in other threads), which was sort of contrasting with the reasonable tone of his arguments in this thread.
When people just make base statements about another group of people without any attempt to be respectful and honest about their information, and then later demand some sort of respect or factual integrity, it sticks out. What, did it only get “unreasonable” because it was focused on white people instead of the “normal” victims of constant bad publicity?
It’s an interesting conclusion: No surprise, he doesn’t like statistics which are unreasonable and unsubstantiated. What stands out to me is that this ins’t universal.
Eh…I think of it less as “entertainment” for them, I do think I can give quite the tongue lashing. Honestly posting here has given me the confidence to question the views of many friends I have who have said questionable things about certain racial groups, it’s sort of “re” preparing me for the world.
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@ Demerera
I have no doubt that a lot of us as Black or POC commentators feel this way. It certainly is a major consideration for any of my own posts:
The fact that inspite of this potentially justifiable barrier not to engage many Black and POC did shows the depth of their inner compassion and humanity. That they were still prepared to open up their hearts and share, what to some have been and still are, traumatic experiences of racial abuse has to be highly commendable. Commendable in knowing and appreciating directly, indirectly or otherwise that ALL of us (Black/white POC etc…) can benefit in some way or other from listening and reading of these individual experiences.
Having said that it should come as no surprise that those commentators who blatantly disregarded such a gracious offering should elicit swift action on the part of Abagond to remove them permanently from this blog. I personally view this as totally understandable and don’t have a problem with it. After all these banned commentators were warned. So it really amounts to nothing more than flagrant abuse. And clearly shows they had no real interest in learning anything or, as I would term it, “healing themselves” from a lack of compassion and empathy on issues concerning Racism: white supremacy/Black (& POC) inferiority.
Is this the only possible course of action? Probably not! I could think of, and I am sure others could come up with too, other courses of action like a temporary ban or a confinement to a particular thread etc…just some suggestions.
The reason I pose this question, and I commend you Demerera for setting the context in which it could be raised, is to consider the effects permanent exclusions from engaging in these sorts of heavily emotionally charged conversations about Racism can create? Not just in this blog but outside of it as well.
Do they enhance and expand on the conversations or do they decay and destroy them? I think the evidence for either can be found right here in this blog.
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@Kwamla
Thank you for taking the time to respond to my post.
That they were still prepared to open up their hearts and share, what to some have been and still are, traumatic experiences of racial abuse has to be highly commendable. Commendable in knowing and appreciating directly, indirectly or otherwise that ALL of us (Black/white POC etc…) can benefit in some way or other from listening and reading of these individual experiences.
It certainly is Kwamla – you are right, no doubt about it. The benefit is knowing that you are not alone (though small comfort, it shouldnt have happened in the first place) and that regardless, people have still managed to ‘come out the other side’ despite the barriers and attempts at oppression.
The frustration comes from the fact that people had to endure in the first place.
So it really amounts to nothing more than flagrant abuse. And clearly shows they had no real interest in learning anything or, as I would term it, “healing themselves” from a lack of compassion and empathy on issues concerning Racism: white supremacy/Black (& POC) inferiority.
Yes. Unfortunately this is the case. You know what? A little tiny part of me that still has a smidgeon of faith in human nature wants to believe that this would penetrate on some level but, the overwhelming part of me knows that for many, it is far too entrenched.
Is this the only possible course of action? Probably not! I could think of, and I am sure others could come up with too, other courses of action like a temporary ban or a confinement to a particular thread etc…just some suggestions.
I agree. These are possible alternatives. I do understand however that the rules have been persistently ‘flouted’. Someone used the analogy of the blog being like Abagonds home and the expectation and respect to follow the rules tof the homeowner which I think is apt.
Do they enhance and expand on the conversations or do they decay and destroy them? I think the evidence for either can be found right here in this blog.
It is a mixture of both IMO – they decay and destroy conversations but also confirm that all that is asserted on here by commenters is not in the mind. That there are still real and genuine battles out there, perceptions foisted on people unfairly due to what they represent in terms of race, gender etc, situations that are not as accessible and at the reach of control as they seem on the surface i.e. ‘positive discrimination’ for starters.
Once again Kwamla thanks for your input.
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@ Duck
Every idiot knows that juvenile records are sealed. I thought even you knew that. I don’t even really have to comment to you because Ace and Kwamla pretty much told you the gist of this.
Never once did I say anything even remotely racist. If you were reading for understanding you would have saw that I said I didn’t think this had anything to do with them being white, but more about their culture. The only statistic I used was that 97% of rapist are never arrested. That did not say anything about race. We didn’t use stats at my job broken down by race. We didn’t have to because we had “actual numbers”.
Population: 24
Age: 14 to 20
Race: 19 white 5 black
Those are called facts. I don’t have an agenda like you obviously do. I am making truthful statements. I didn’t make blanket statements that quoted US stats proving this and proving that. I was there. I don’t have to copy and paste from anywhere because I was a witness. Do witness have to quote stats now to be relevant? I would love to see that happen in the court of law.
“Sorry sir, we can’t accept your witness statement that you saw this murder happen because you don’t have statistics to back up your observation.”
See how stupid that sounds and how idiotic that makes you appear?
Both of the examples I used the kids were 15 when they arrived. An yes, he was very intelligent, but a sociopath; a dangerous combination. The therapist wanted to pull their hair out with him. He was released as high risk, however. That means he had to register as a sex offender with schools until he turns 21. Then he is reevaluated. Most don’t make it to 21 before they re-offend; so if you just go to the sex offender registration website in Alabama, there is almost a guarantee you will see some of my former charges faces’.
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Abagond and everyone
Just to let you know, Diaryofanegress is me, Truthbetold, not a sock puppet. I’m logged into my wordpress account.
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@ duckduckgoofs
You mentioned that you are a person of mixed race heritage. I’m curious. How are you mixed?
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“An open letter to NYC”
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAqOZVPZBuQ&feature=related)
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Those of you in the states: what is going on with that New Jersey mom of five who got charged with child endangerment for putting her child in a tanning bed. I don’t know her name but i know she’s called “Tanning Mom.” (That seems really wacko). Here’s the youtube that I saw of her:
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sza4YMrK03s&feature=related)
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@cleonette I think we all can agree that although your story is very telling it’s not enough of a sample to get an accurate representation by race. I think that is where some of the beef may stem from. I don’t know I’m not inside anyone else’s head.
If what you are saying is “Look you can’t assume only blacks are the messed up ones, check out the people where I used to work.” I agree. If you are taking that further and saying that “white people have a disproportionate urge to be sex offenders” then I will respectfully disagree.
I feel like some of the disparity is that white kids are more likely to tell their teachers in a better school system (That is opinion) , and black people who have “moved on up” to the burbs usually aren’t the types that would be involved in that (or drugs) It’s third, forth generation “spoiled” white kids in those areas involved in drugs. Again just my opinion.
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cont…..also there might be times when the teachers were told and did nothing about it in more traditional black neighborhoods. Maybe the teacher is racist, or doesn’t believe the kid, or is scared to do something(maybe because of a form of racism) etc.
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@Ace
Well firstly, my point was that you had said her statements were…”
I think your point may be to lecture me with some dubious discourses about oppressed/oppressor groups. But I’m simply asking for some evidence to support her claims.
@Cleonette
Simply put, if conclusions are to be drawn from your allegations (which some have done) then I’d like those allegations to be supported with evidence. I had a longer post typed but I’ll simply co-sign Dave since he expressed my concern well.
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Correction:
Simply put, if conclusions are to be drawn from your allegations (which some have done) then I’d like those conclusions to be supported with evidence.
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@ Someguy
So you’re asking, “What are ya?” It’s not like I haven’t been asked that one before. haha Don’t take this the wrong way. If it was just you I’d probably answer. But considering the hornets nest which is this blog I’d prefer not to give others something else (and personal) to swing at.
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@ duckduckgoofs
That’s cool, I appreciate your candor.
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Cleonette
I feel it’s prudent to point out here that when/if *certain* people ask BLACK “eye witnesses” for FURTHER EVIDENCE they are operating within their privilege in the realm of what Prof Derrick Bell has pegged, LAWS OF RACIAL STANDING.
Abagond did a post on these 5 rules, rewriting them in his own layman’s terms and citing present day examples… because some things stay the same.
************
FIRST RULE
The law grants litigants standing to come into court based on their having sufficient personal interest and involvement in the issue to justify judicial cognizance. Black people (while they may be able to get into court) are denied such standing legitimacy in the world generally when they discuss their negative experiences with racism or even when they attempt to give a positive evaluation of another black person or of his work. No matter what their experience or expertise, blacks’ statements involving race are deemed ‘special pleading’ and thus not entitled to serious consideration.
SECOND RULE
Not only are blacks’ complaints discounted, but black victims of racism are less effective witnesses than are whites, who are members of the oppressor class. This phenomenon reflects a widespread assumption that blacks, unlike whites, cannot be objective on racial issues and will favor their own no matter what. This deep seated belief fuels a continuing effort – despite all manner of Supreme Court decisions intended to curb the practice – to keep black people off juries in cases involving race. Black judges hearing racial cases are eyed suspiciously and sometimes asked to recuse themselves in favor of a white judge – without those making the request even being aware of the paradox in their motions.
THIRD RULE
Few blacks avoid diminishment of racial standing, most of their statements about racial conditions being diluted and their recommendations of other blacks taken with a grain of salt. The usual exception to this rule is the black person who publicly disparages or criticizes other blacks who are speaking or acting in ways that upset whites. Instantly, such statements are granted ‘enhanced standing’ even when the speaker has no special expertise or experience in the subject he or she is criticizing.
FOURTH RULE
When a black person or group makes a statement or takes an action that the white community or vocal components thereof deem “outrageous,” the latter will actively recruit blacks willing to refute the statement or condemn the action. Blacks who respond to the call to condemnation will receive superstanding status. The blacks who refuse to be recruited will be interpreted as endorsing the statements and action and may suffer political or economic reprisals.
FIFTH RULE
True awareness requires an understanding of the Rules of Racial Standing. As an individuals understanding of these rules increases, there will be more and more instances where one can discern their workings. Using this knowledge, one gains the gift of prophesy about racism, its essence, its goals, even its remedies. The price of this knowledge is the frustration that follows recognition that no amount of public prophesy, no matter its accuracy, can either repeal the Rules of Racial Standing nor prevent their or prevent their operation.
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I agree with Cleonette’s summation of working with teenaged/underage sex offenders. Kwamla was absolutely right when he stated the validity of first hand experience as opposed to statistics, which can indeed be manipulated. Even if you hold statistics to be the end all, anecdotal experience puts statistics in context. I do not have much faith in statistics anyways when it comes to complex matters. They rarely show context.
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Maybe you would believe what I was saying if I had one of my white co-workers tell you since my blackness makes me non-credible. In fact he quit before I did, but he plans on going back. We are Facebook friends. Would you like a statement?
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@ Duck (I hope you don’t mind me shortening it, if not I can write your whole screename out),
“I think your point may be to lecture me with some dubious discourses about oppressed/oppressor groups.”
No, if you are going to disregard everything else I said and asked in favor of deciding I must be only trying to “lecture” you on oppressed/oppressor groups, then that’s disappointing. Especially if you find that “dubious”.
“But I’m simply asking for some evidence to support her claims.”
And I was simply asking why you need special “evidence” beyond her work experience and specific cases to support her claims about the fact that white people are no less “messed up” than black people are, while failing to do the same thing with your claims in other threads or failing to show that sort of standard when it comes to claims by white racists.
@ Hernieth,
I agree. I don’t like statistics because they are used as if there aren’t variables or different contexts which can affect the outcome of a situation.
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@ cleonette
I am not big on statistics myself, but I can attest to one particular thing. I may have mentioned it before, but when I was working at the solicitors office there was one case that would always stick in my head. It involved a female that had been sexually assaulted by her father for years. The mind set of these people was astonishing.
The woman that was being molested a majority of her life actually ended up allowing her father to watch and visit with her daughter without her supervision. She decided something was wrong when her daughter was acting strange and did not want to go there. She pressed charges and when they were on trial all the family rallied behind the father. I mean they were ready to fight the woman for going this far. They really felt it was something that could be worked out in the family instead of going to the police.
I always thought what type of brain washing was going on nit just for the family itself but for this woman. She knew it happened to her, so what makes her think it would not happen to her daughter. This was a white family.
These are the statistics in 2000 for my state.
http://www.sled.state.sc.us/SLED/default.asp?category=crimensc0&Service=sexcrimes
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@ Bulanik,
Fair enough. I think i was looking for some opinion/additional insight as to why she got so famous all of a sudden but clearly that can come from anyone, not just people who live in the states (just bc she lives in the states).
What do you think? 😉
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@ Sharina
A lot of these kids were victims as well as perpetrators of sexual crime. I guess the thing that baffled me most was the deviance: pedophilia, bestiality, sado, excessive masturbation, and other weird fetishes. Where did THAT come from? Why don’t people like to talk about it? Working there, we like our own little researchers because there is not a lot of studies and information about sexual deviance in teens or children. If you find in information, please tell me. I still have friends who work there and they could use the help as well on how to deal with some of this stuff.
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@ Cleonette
Most people don’t talk about those kind of things due to the fact that the association of children and sex/ sexual deviancy make folks uneasy. Factor in sex crimes…most people run for the hills.
The only reason I can come up with is preoccupation with any fetish comes from a dark place of mental and physical abuse. These kids turn inwardly and become fascinated with their bodies and sadly, the bodies of other kids.
They also imitate what they see, hear and what was done to them.
As for why white boys are the main offenders? One supposition could be anxiety, stress, depression , mental illness and suicide are plagues within the white community ( watch the white racists deny this ). Whites are constantly being told how to act, that they are better than the rest. Living up to other people’s expectations is maddening so they turn inwards. That’s why white girls are the number one victims of anorexia and cutting/ self mutilitation.
Also, at that young age with puberty approaching, hormones are going wild.
Just some random thoughts…
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@ Cleonette
I left you a comment.
It’s me truthbetold, aka, diaryofanegress, not a sock puppet.
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@ cleonette
I am just speculating here and I too wish there was more research, but I feel that a lot of them see it as accepted. Not just them themselves but the family as a whole. They make that type of behavior acceptable. When a child does wrong a lot of parents want to shelter it and pretend like it never happened or that it was a one time thing or the victim is a liar. How often has it been that the victim is put on trial in cases and painted to be everything under the sun just so the predator can get off. Most cases they do and people see this. They feel entitled to just take what they want and society upholds this. Especially for males.
A lot of them you can’t fix and when our system sees a youth pedophile they want to try and fix them. You also have to remember that rape was acceptable in society for a very long time too. When it became outlawed, none of them really stopped doing it at the drop of the hat. Imagine how many kids were witness to this behavior and later saw it as acceptable to do and generation after generation would do it because it was acceptable. At some point in society all sexual deviance was acceptable.
Check out this link. I have not finished reading it yet, but it is quite interesting.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality#Americas
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@ Abagond
Where did my comment go?
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@ Sharina
Yes, but this is Alabama, not New York. Some of these kids were dirt poor and illiterate. I can see a kid being exposed to stuff on the Internet and being curious, but this is different. It has so be family/culture. Even though these kids were the victims of a lot of sexual abuse, very few of the people that abused them were arrested.
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@ Abagond.
I’m new to this blog. I have been reading it, and i find it very insightful and interesting. Compliments!
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Truth be told,
“Whites are constantly being told how to act, that they are better than the rest. Living up to other people’s expectations is maddening so they turn inwards.”
I have heard of this during my research on mass murder and workplace shootings. There’s this idea that they’re told they ARE better and more entitled to things, not that they need to BE better to earn said things. So when reality doesn’t synch up to this, that’s when the problems start.
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@ Cleonette Maybe you would believe what I was saying if I had one of my white co-workers tell you since my blackness makes me non-credible.
I don’t want to hear from “white co-workers”. What I wanted was evidence to support your implication that whites in general exhibited a higher level of deviancy. Does being black mean one need not support such claims?
>
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@diary The only reason I can come up with is preoccupation with any fetish comes from a dark place of mental and physical abuse.
I agree. When someone has mental problems, abuse is one of the first places psyhchologists look,
As for why white boys are the main offenders? One supposition could be anxiety, stress, depression , mental illness and suicide are plagues within the white community ( watch the white racists deny this ).
Yes. Of course. Anyone who disagrees with your false claim must be racist. *sarcasm*
>
>
@Sharina
Thank you for the figures. My cursory examination shows that victimization tends to be roughly in line with what one would expect for the state’s demographics. I did, however, notice an interesting trend. Black offenders tend to be skewed towards younger males (10-21 years) whereas white offenders tend to be more evenly distributed among all ages. I don’t know that it means anything. I just thought it was interesting.
I am just speculating here and I too wish there was more research, but I feel that a lot of them see it as accepted. Not just them themselves but the family as a whole.
I don’t think sees sexual abuse as acceptable. I think children are scared and ashamed to tell anyone. And maybe they think no one will believe them. And the families are in denial because its usually a relative. So maybe they’re right that people won’t believe them? But you see the same thing with grown women who don’t press charges. Of course, I once knew a woman who lied about being raped, too. Men who get raped won’t even come forward. That’s why I give props to Tyler Perry and Teri Hatcher.
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Mmmmm mouth watering-ly delicious!
(http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-17993104)
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@ Ace
Interesting…
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OAN: After reading the First Experience thread, I thought about something else. Does anyone else find it jarring that there are still “the first black to do ____” occurring after being member of this country for so long? The first black judge here, the first black female there, the first Hispanic news anchor at such and such television station, the first Asian…. Then people look at it like, “Oh racism is over”, but the racism is only going to escalate for that person from then on. For example, my friend put her son on the tee ball team in her neighborhood. The coach went on and on about how great it was to have some diversity on the team and so on. The whole season, he was picked last for everything. His name was spelled wrong on his trophy and when she returned it to be fixed, she never saw it again. When the other kids hit the ball, all of the parents clapped and cheered for the kids but only got a little smattering for her son, She refused to put him on the team the next year. There were a few other occurrences, like “forgetting” to tell her all the kids were going out for pizza after the games.
Compare it to President Obama too. He has went through some things that no other leader in this country ever had to go though because of his racial identity. It seems that when a lot of POCs reach the top of the mountain, there is a mob up there waiting to push them back down somehow.
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@ Cleonette,
Wonderful point! There’s just something about being the “first *blank*”, even i it’s trivial like sports clubs. If you don’t reach that position, it’s because your not capable because your race is less *insert adjective here* than white people are. If you DO make it, then suddenly everyone wants to punish you for doing it. It’s like all of a sudden your under a microscope and they look for any reason to justify their disdain of you. Sort of debunks that whole, “If blacks only achieved more we wouldn’t be racist…” argument.
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long comment in moderation
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@ Ace
Totally! So glad you get what I am saying! It’s really weird! Also there is always some excuse like they only got in there position because of some type of extra help but not hard work and dedication. It’s always questioned or examined.
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@ Cleonette,
“Totally! So glad you get what I am saying! It’s really weird! Also there is always some excuse like they only got in there position because of some type of extra help but not hard work and dedication. It’s always questioned or examined.”
Oh I do! It feels like they’re just standing there expectantly, before saying, “Your welcome…” And yet, no one questions what sort of “extra help” had to be given to keep their clubs exclusively white.
Every little act is put under scrutiny. Its almost like they’re trying to use you as the “proof” of why putting PoC in a good position won’t work, so they need to find every little crack in the facade to use against you. I notice they instigate it by isolation and visible disdain. They treat the kid like he’s not really welcome and they don’t support him the same, and then he withdraws and feels bad, and then they say, “See? He can’t handle it!”
Makes me think of Iago in Othello.
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@ duckduckgoofs
I think to some degree society does accept it. Keep in my the victims that do come forth. What is the first thing society does to them? I can’t recall the name, but the coach that was molesting these young kids and how members of society just rally up in his defense.
Family member may actually be in denial and want to convince themselves that the child has a wild imagination, but what real parent would ignore clear signs and pretend that it did not happen or to just ignore that. I see a clear psychological issue with that.
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@ cleonette
I agree with you on it having to be family or culture. The biggest thing is how do you fix that. When you were working there did you get the chance to meet any of the parents or was it only the youth?
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@ Ace
“I have heard of this during my research on mass murder and workplace shootings. There’s this idea that they’re told they ARE better and more entitled to things, not that they need to BE better to earn said things. So when reality doesn’t synch up to this, that’s when the problems start.”
I am going to co-sign this. I have seen this type of behavior with more than one of my white friends. All of them are on anti-depressants and other type medications just to cope with day to day life. I actually feel sorry for them. My white friends that act; what some might say as black are much more happier. They tend not to stress so much.
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Wow. Found this gem on the “Tube”
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQiK1fQk7e0)
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I have a major question here. Why is it that statistics seem to be the answer to everything? I’m sorry but I have yet to find statistics the answer to everything. If I were to follow statistics then I need to be afraid that a white man is going to rape my 5 year old, seeing how statistic wise they are more likely to do that.
The point is life experience are just as valid if not more so than a bunch of numbers on a paper. You can see it with your own eyes and take it in for what it is worth. Just because the numbers on the paper says it is not so does not mean it is not so.
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@SW6
“When I see young black kids (and grown ass black men for that matter) behaving like something out of rap video I am chagrined.”—-I hate to be the one to break it to you, but that is not just black kids. White kids, Asian, kids etc wear that same style. Its fashion. nothing more for most of them. You read too much into what someone wears.
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oops wear*
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@ Sharina,
I agree. However, statistics only seem to be a viable thing to use against black people or other “undesirable” people of color or sexualities. If you are a white, cisgendered, straight man, all of a sudden “statistics” are unfair to use, and we are supposed to never draw conclusions from them.
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@ SW6,
Can I ask why you take issue with Truthbetold’s statement? I’m just wondering.
“Yes, that’s true. But the rest of us, all of society, are being told how to be and who to be as well. When I see young black kids (and grown ass black men for that matter) behaving like something out of rap video I am chagrined.”
I agree with your first statement, but why is it bad to see young black kids behaving like something out of a rap video? Is it because rap is negative? Or is it because society has put such a negative spin on anything dominated by black people and therefore people have heaped unfair criticisms on that genre versus other genres which are just as violent and misogynistic.
Why does this “chagrin” never seem to apply to anyone else but black people?
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@Ace “If you are a white, cisgendered, straight man, all of a sudden “statistics” are unfair to use, and we are supposed to never draw conclusions from them.”
Bullspit. I’d love to see your statistics about white men. Let’s see ’em.
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@ Duck,
“Bullspit. I’d love to see your statistics about white men. Let’s see ‘em.”
Never said I gathered them. In fact, as I’ve constantly said, I don’t like using statistics to talk about races of people. I don’t really have a preoccupation with justifying some form of bigotry with shoddy data. I know pretty well that I can’t walk around making predictions and conclusions about all white people because numbers say they are more likely to do something. Doing that is silly. I just think it’s funny that it’s only okay to use statistics to justify opinions about certain groups and not others.
I’m pretty sure that if I went around digging up statistics about white men, you would put some effort into debunking them, because most people don’t like numbers that could be doctored or completely inaccurate being used to assign traits and defects to their race. Which I would completely understand.
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SW6
You said “When I see young black kids (and grown ass black men for that matter) behaving like something out of rap video I am chagrined.”
It’s not just black kids. Kids of all backgrounds take part in this because we live in a society where the media is like God. Most people whether they realize it or not are programmed to the repetitive images the media presents. Sooner or later, those images are ingrained into their minds and will likely be used for information about the world no matter if they are real or fiction.
Kids are young and developing, and if they are fed certain images through television, radio or video games, they will likely see those images as true to life. And with the violence and sex being presented in our airwaves, it’s no wonder they some people feel and act the way they do. But young black kids are not the only ones effected by this.
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@ SW6
Lets begin with I am pretty new to this blog. Now if You would have ask “We all know who it’s gonna stick to” five months ago I probably would have said black, but I was told you get wise with age so I did or rather I had to.
In Dec. 2011 I met someone dressed in thug or gangster attire. I had the same negative thoughts you and many others had. Due to the efforts of my husband I was able to see the true side of that person. Heck he was intelligent and you would not know it had you talked to him. I also began to notice others of different race dressing in the same attire. It did not make them less intelligent or thugs. They were still pretty smart individuals they just chose a style they liked and stuck with it.
I learned to not judge a book by its cover. Its the same as if I see a female wearing skimpy clothes. I do not assume she is a hooker. It is just fashion. Most rap superstars are not even real gangsters. It is just as much a costume or attire choice for them as it is for the youth that copy it.
Do you assume punk rockers are Satan workers? Is it safe to say based on that logic that whites that dress like punk rockers are all Satan worshipers?
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@ SW6
Another thing society rules don’t hold weight with me as much as it does for others. I in general tend to get to know a person before deciding who they are. I do not like stereotypes as people deserved to be judged on their own merit. Society has too much of a hold on how people should live their life. Where is the room for free thought? There is very little and the more people hold on to the rules of society the more they become just another social security number.
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@ SW6,
Oh I agree with you there. We all know who that negative press always sticks to. I can agree with that 100%. And we know that at that moment, they’re suddenly made the representative of their entire race.
But, on the other hand, they should be able to wear what they want without people being ignorant enough to stick negatives onto them. I think the blame belongs to a society that has different standards of dress and behavior for different races. I think we can both fairly say that people who look at a black man in baggy jeans and think bad things would do the same to a black man in a nice suit, we know they can’t separate between the two.
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@SW6
The attitude and the clothes go hand in hand. How often do you see a gansta rap star wanna be in a suit? Not often. At least I have not.
The thing you are missing is that people can dress and act anyway they want to, but like I stated at the end of the day I judge them by their merit. I think you managed to miss what I was saying. I hope that answers your question on whether I am alright.
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@ SW6
Are clothes not part of a persons persona?
“Also, you missed a fundamental. When I talk about things sticking I’m talking about the judgement of a racist white mind who believes the stereotypes presented in the media. Not my mind. Did you read my comment through?”—I read the first half the rest I did not. I do not recall referring to your mindset at any point in time. I stated my opinions. When I did ask you a question in regards to the punk rockers I was at that point curious on your mind set about how they are perceived. If that perception is some how different from that of someone acting in gansta fashion. If they both are viewed negative based on behaviors or is one viewed more negatively than the other.
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@ SW6,
The attitude and clothes sort of go together though. Much like any other genre. I do think it fits whether we’re talking about clothes or behavior, but fair enough, I won’t mention clothes. And I don’t disagree with you.
I agree that stereotypes are applied to black people a lot easier than everyone else, so when someone goes out of the way to act a certain way that fits what they see in a rap video or a stereotypical black role it makes things difficult. Because people usually see them and think, “See, that’s how black people REALLY are.” But then, that same exact standard isn’t applied to white kids who act like they hate the world and emulate what they see certain metal singers do. No one looks at the character they’re emulating and thinks, “Well, I guess all white people are mean, loud, and dirty”.
I just think there’s a lot of unfairness in putting the blame on young black kids who decide to play into the rap culture and emulate what they see, or at least…maybe most of the blame. Yes, they should find better role models, but that’s usually all they see. Yes, they shouldn’t act in ways that fit those stereotypes, but then, why should people be trying to apply stereotypes to them? A lot of those stereotypes existed before rap came about.
And again, I honestly still stand by this: I don’t think that anyone who can apply negative traits to all black people because of what they see in a rap video would think differently regardless of how each individual black person acts. It’s not like they cared enough to discern between them, or else black people wouldn’t constantly have to watch out for stereotypes and distance themselves from them.
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@ Duck and SW6
Listen, the thing that I love the most about racists is the way they love to use stats, especially negative ones pertaining to blacks, to justify racism against black people. I made a statement about white male deviancy.
I don’t need the D.O.J. to confirm or deny what I’ve seen with my own two eyes.
Whites in this country are plagued with bouts of anxiety, depression, suicide and certain types of deviant behaviour. Having to constantly worry that someone, anyone, is gaining on you brings out all sorts of maladjusted behaviour.
White males are, and even the two of you CANNOT deny this, the number one perpertrators of deviant crimes. Bundy, Dahmer, Mason comes to mind.
This remains a sore topic for the white community due to the fact that it goes against your self imposed Puritanical, morally good beliefs. It outs you as the thing you hate the most in black culture…a monster.
You’re taking issue with my statement because I hit a raw nerve. You have no trouble telling us how stupid, lazy and criminal we are but when we shine the light on you…can’t handle it? Can you?
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Did anyone hear about that fool of a pastor that went on fox and went on a misogynist and homophobic rant live?
http://www.womanist-musings.com/2012/05/for-rev-jesse-lee-peterson-women-are.html?m=1
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@ cece D
Faux News sure loves its black sell-outs! Look at Michael Steele. I’m waiting for him to write a tell all book.
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@ SW6
“Sharina, lets be real. You’re now just being straight up dishonest! Instead of saying, “Yes, SW6 you never mentioned clothes, let me address this thing about acting and behaving in this way or that way that you are bringing up…” What you’re doing instead is attempting to save face by being dishonest and trying to create a link that does not exist. You were addressing what I said and in what I said I never mentioned clothes. Therefore, if you want to take issue with what I originally said you have to stick to the things that I indeed said. “—-This is wear I am going to assume you are crazy. I gave my opinion. My whole post to you was my opinion on my life experience, so is what I explained to you in my second post. So why would I follow up with you did not mention clothes. It was not really a mater of whether you really mentioned clothes or not because what you fail to realize is clothes is a major part of it. Like I said once again “how many people act gangster in a suit?” It was actually only in your second post that you mentioned you were not thinking abut clothes. Well I am not a psychic so I do not know what the hell you were thinking, which is why in my second post I was trying to get a feel for you mindset
What in heck are you even talking about? You are defensive for what? My opinions on how I feel. Just because you feel I was wrong. I was not wrong in anything I said pertaining to how I feel about life and peoples attitudes and attire. I am not going to withdraw because you are blowing something so small out of proportion, so you can feel like the big man who is so right. Re-read what I said. I have a feeling you got lost somewhere in the post. I not one time called you anything along the lines of racist or gave any real opinion on you yet here you are making a long post of what a dumb azz you are.
So what you did not mention clothes, but you also didn’t answer my question of “Are clothes not part of a persons persona?” So I guess we are even right?
So just as you said “A person should at least withdraw when they are wrong. But not only will you not do that you are clinging to your non sequitur and trying to pass it off as legitimate. That’s low.”—-I guess I won’t be seeing you do that either. You have been on this blog long enough to prove that right. Truly the pot calling the kettle black.
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@ SW6
A side note:
I am no stranger to admitting I am wrong when I am wrong, but I am not going to apologize or in anyway say I am wrong for my opinion, especially when I made it perfectly clear that is what it was. You being defensive at the slightest conversation is noted.
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SW6 & Duck
Why do you come to this blog? Just answer that.
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@ Ace
Thank you for being so eloquent in your post.
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@ Cleonette
They come here for the same reason why all racists come here. To test us. To see what us inferior beings are up to. To challenge and remind us of “our place”.
It’s not working our too well for them so they keep coming back.
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@ Cleonette, Sharina
See “how to be White ” here:
http://diaryofanegress.wordpress.com
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@ Duck
“I don’t want to hear from “white co-workers”. What I wanted was evidence to support your implication that whites in general exhibited a higher level of deviancy. Does being black mean one need not support such claims?”
Your ignorance is showing. Never did I say “whites in general exhibited a higher level of deviancy”. I said the sex crimes among the youth sex offenders that I personally worked with, there were a lot. We already came to the conclusion that these records are not public because they are juveniles.
I offered you a chance to hear from a person who was white so that you could see that I don’t observe with racist glasses on. No matter who was observing it, the facts will remain the same. We both worked at the same place, with the same kids, and had access to the same information. Of course you don’t want to hear from my co-worker because you already know that he is going to say the same thing I am saying. I just wonder why it vex you so for me to be privy to this information? If you scroll up you will see everything I said was limited to my work experience. I don’t need stats to prove my point because I have the mental capacity to do my own thinking. You should try it sometimes.
I even said in one post about another person:
“He learned about black (people) from working in the department of corrections? Glad I didn’t “learn about white people” from working at the detention center for youth sex offenders.”
You can scroll up and see the post if you like. That just kills your theory about me generalizing a whole race of people. In fact, if you stroll up you will also see in post that I said:
“I don’t know why they were like that and I don’t think it was because they were white but something about their culture”.
Remember when I said that? I can’t stand a liar…
How can I support something you claim I said when I didn’t actually say that? Try again. You keep trying to paint me as a racist but you fail every single time.
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@ Truthbetold
I believe there must be some truth to what you are saying. We must not be too stupid because they keep trying. Yet, I want to hear it from them.
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@ cleonette
I understand where you are coming from, but the real question is whether they will even bother to give you an answer or deflect it on to something else. I can’t say for DuckDuckgoofs because he has always answered my questions, but sw6 seems to be like the rest of them. Wants you to answer them and pet their ego, while refusing to acknowledge or answer any of your questions.
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@ Cleonette
From the other thread you said, I remember you clearly state in the blog about Zimmerman that Trayvon was casing houses to rob yet I have not seen you come up with any evidence to back that up either.
That’s because I didn’t say it. But since you’re so convinced I did you should have no problem providing a link to that comment. Otherwise, you can admit you were mistaken and apologize so that we can move on to the other questions.
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You say that as if it were a bad thing!
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@ satanforce
It could be bad depending on how one views it. I really was just trying to see sw6 mindset. I personally use to do the whole punk rocker thing in high school. To a small extent I do it now, no where near the extreme I use to. Even so I was just curious on if that is some how less bad than the black gangster types.
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@ Duck
Okay, maybe you didn’t say it. I’m not going through that many comments to prove you said it because there are so many other colorful examples that are right here in this thread. I apologize if you indeed did not say that particular thing but it still makes you no less a racist or ignorant as you were before I made my statement. If that is the only little jab you can come up with against me, bless your little heart. Apparently everything else I said was true so carry on.
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@ Sharina,
No problem, thank YOU for your eloquence and very educated posts.
@ Cleonette,
I still never saw a thing about you saying anything problematic. Frankly I wouldn’t waste my time trying to defend myself to someone who says racist gems and then suddenly wants you to forget that he does. Him grilling you for “proof” is just a smokescreen, we know he wouldn’t be asking for it if you were Doug talking about black people or something.
@ Duck
In that Zimmerman post you DO say these gems. So apologize for THOSE and then you can be smug about it, kay? 🙂
“I think if Zimmerman had shot Doug instead of Trayvon that you’d be taking Zimmerman’s side.”
“Yeah, just like blacks did with OJ. If his head is split, you must acquit!”
““I donated to the zimmrman fund cuz I want to see that black man get a fair trial now that his own people have turned on him”
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@ cleonette
See what I mean. Not one of them managed to have the guts to respond to your question. I figured that much.
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@ SW6
I’m in medicine. I worked with an agency for 5 years where I’d travel throughout the US. I saw, firsthand, the ills of white society that DOESN’T get published in the papers or spoken about in the news.
For instance, you’ll hear if a black man pees on the sidewalk but not about the white father who raped his daughter and fathered his own child/grandchild.
I’ve worked in hospitals that had a prison ward on the upper level, on constant lockdown. Yes, there were plenty of brown faces for various crimes. But the majority of deviant crimes were commited by white male youngsters.
All but one were white males, mostly poor but some middle and upper class.
We had this one white male who had sex with his pet dog and loved to download pictures of girls with horses.
You never hear about this part of white society and IF you do, it ALWAYS comes with an explanation of why they did it. ” Oh, Tim is a good boy…his mom left him when he was a wee lad, he used to get whipped by his pa, he was a crack baby, etc.”
When the black inmates were being questioned, there was no explanation except, ” That’s the way those people are.”
Period.
I’ve seen too many of these cases including when I did pro bono for my agency for Hurricane Katrina.
I don’t rely on statistics for crime. They are FALSIFIED for the media.
I have a good friend and my ex co-worker (she left medicine due to burnout) who works for a tv station on Orlando, FL tell me that only certain stories gets aired for Nielsen Ratings. Guess which ones they are?
And yes, having to live up to the expectations of being “superior” will cause all sorts of anxiety, depression, suicide, etc.
This is truthbetold, by the way…
I’m logged in to my wordpress account.
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That’s is exactly what I am getting at. Everybody does crime but why is it that black crime is so mainstream and white crime is kept secret. They even explained it away at my job and made excuses. “People are not interested in crime committed by whites unless it is to cover the victim.” White victims of crime are heavily pushed in the media while black perpetrators of crimes are heavily pushed. Therefore you have a society that sees black and POCs as criminals and whites as victims. Any idiot can watch TV and see that. No stats needed.
Example, look at all the kidnappings of white females that are covered in the media. We are constantly bombarded by white kids and women murdered and kidnapped be we rarely see the same level in coverage of black kids and women, especially on a national level. But you hardly ever see the media saturated with white criminals but bombarded by black criminals. White women and children victims of crime become household names while blacks fade into the background or just become another dead black person, I think that is why it is so hard for people to see Trayvon become this national story of a black victim because its so rare. They are so used to seeing black men and children as these hardened criminals that they can not think of him as a victim and try their best to ascribe criminality to him in every way possible, even when none is there.
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Sharina, they can’t answer it because they would have to admit something that we all know. lol
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@ truthbetold
Groucho Marks is credited with saying the following, which I think is appropriate for all the stat crunchers:
“Who are you going believe? Me or your lying eyes?”
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To Sharina and Cleonette
@ cleonette
See what I mean. Not one of them managed to have the guts to respond to your question. I figured that much.
What was the question..?
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I presented a question to SW6 and Duck asking their purposes for frequenting this blog. Apparently they chose not to answer because they either are not brave enough to tell us the truth or they are cowards and will probably say something like, “I don’t have to tell you”. But that’s expected.
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@ Cleonette Apparently they chose not to answer because they either are not brave enough to tell us the truth or they are cowards
I already answered Someguy when he asked a similar question. Once again, you’ve made a false claim after failing to read. And while I don’t expect others to memorize everything I say, it would be nice if you wouldn’t jump to conclusions based on nothing more than your own prejudice.
@ Ace
Those were some great one-llners weren’t they? haha And they were all true, too.
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That is not a false claim. You did in fact not answer ME. Also, this is not a pissing contest. I am not trying to out-do you. Beside, I would win anyway. If I were a man, my penis would be bigger and longer, ya know, since you like stereotypes so much…
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Wow! A derailment! I’m shocked!
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@ Someguy
Who said, ” Facts are just facts but statistics can prove anything” ?
What a great line!
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@ SW6
Sure, no problem.
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@ truthbetold
I think my favorite is Homer Simpson’s quote:
“Oh, people can come up with statistics to prove anything, Kent. 14% of people know that.”
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Here we go:
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpmDIP3Fn2Y)
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@ cleonette
LOL. I like that one.
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@SomeGuy
“How odd. I though White folks LOVED Native Americans. I’m into genealogy and see plenty of White people go on and on about how they are related to “princess” Pocahontas.”
Some do, most really don’t have a solid opinion nor don’t care. I’ve seen the ones you speak of though, and I find them to be VERY annoying and looking for the wrong reasons. My Sister-In-Law is blonde/blue-eyed and was looking into her family line and was shocked to find out she actually had a native ancestor on account of her french Canadian background(Known to have mixed with the natives more than the brits) She managed to actually get herself her status card, which to be honest stumped me but I’m not one to complain, she doesn’t walk around and flaunt it like she’s someone special (which I can’t say for some I meet).
Myself, I’ve known about my heritage since I was roughly 9 or so. But I didn’t see it as a negative or a positive kind of thing nor did I really give it much thought.
My best friend is part native/part white aswell, he’s pratically the same as I am in regards to his heritage but his native ancestor is further down the line than mine is, and he rarely thinks about it, nor does he care really.
Most white people I know are more ugh, open and more well spoken about here when it relates to their European side (I know a few girls who have Italian ancestry and boast about it for days and days) though it doesn’t interest me much.
And I suppose it’s mainly in the USA that such love of native americans come from, as their history is quite similar to us Canadians in regards but slightly different.
Plus I believe I read somewhere that the native population in Canada (if including mixed folks) were higher than it was in the USA and I can’t remember what else it said but I believe it didn’t account for the thousands of folks who could very well have ancestry and not know it, given the history of racism against the natives wasn’t that far off from it’s US counterpart (one example, residential schools for natives to be assimilated) which was NOT taught when I was in school, and I was quite saddened reading about it.
I don’t know though, it’s mostly Americans who seem to be more fixated on finding out if they have any native ancestry. Here it’s more related to not knowing anything about their background or just doing a test done out of curiousity(which I plan to do, as I know nothing in regards to my white side).
I’ve always been intrigued though, do you ever find anyone who happens to be non-white who wants a test conducted strictly to see if they have any native ancestry, I’ve yet to and seems to be strictly within whites.
Ew, I need to stop rambling now. Meh. And apologies for the .. late reply, I’ve been mia to regain my goodhearted composure.
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@ truthbetold
That is some very impressive experience. It begs the question and I am sure it has been answered…Is black crime really as high as it is claimed? I mean if you put focus on black crime and make it pretty much the priority in media and such, then it stands to reason that the average Joe looking at tv will think that the majority of crime is committed by blacks. Its the image that will stick in a persons mind.
I use to hear the argument all the time of how the media is unfairly portraying whites and catering to blacks. I use to say maybe whites are committing more crime, but the truth is that they were committing it all along. It is just now the media is actually showing it.
In movies though I have noticed that they seem to always portray the average white house wife as doped up on meds and a majority of movies that have a rapist (ones I have seen) show the white man as she pedophile or rapist.
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To Cleonette:
:I presented a question to SW6 and Duck asking their purposes for frequenting this blog.
I thought SW6 was Black..? A few years ago Abagond either in his comments or in a post described why he thought Whites were coming to his blog. Some are in a relationship or have friends (or both) who are Black. Some are racists and want to stir things up, some are anti-racists and want to share knowledge, learn.
As for me I do business in a community that is majority Black so I want to get a pulse as to how some people in the Black community are thinking and also to avoid to inadvertently insulting someone with careless comments. I can be pretty verbally combative both in person and in print so I am sure I have insulted a few people here.
FWIW I lived in Alabama for about 12 years. It was wonderful.. in the rear view mirror… my sympathies to you.
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@ Uncle Milton,
“As for me I do business in a community that is majority Black so I want to get a pulse as to how some people in the Black community are thinking and also to avoid to inadvertently insulting someone with careless comments. I can be pretty verbally combative both in person and in print so I am sure I have insulted a few people here.”
I find that perspective interesting. I am curious, would you say that coming in with that perspective has given you a specific experience or conclusion about the sort of things that might concern the communities you do business in?
@ Yawn,
I grew up knowing that I had “native” ancestry, but it took my parents actually researching before we knew what parts of our family were, and where they hailed from. My grandmother was good about this sort of stuff.
I noticed that there was a fixation (where I live) in proving that white people had native ancestry. Part of me thought it was so that they could prove they were entitled to live in land “stolen” from others. I also thought maybe it was to absolve themselves from any responsibility when it comes to racism (i.e. the “I’m not like them, I’ve got some Cherokee!”) . I never really thought they had any real interest in really knowing if it could hurt their privilege or if they couldn’t get something out of it, nor did I see them really wanting to research the nations that these ancestors were a part of.
I was skeptical because in my family, people had lost almost everything for marrying darker skinned indigenous women, they classified as “white” on the 1930’s census on both sides of the family, but when they married these women and had children they suddenly “Mulatto” (the first census they were white, the next they and their children were not). Soon they couldn’t get loans, homes, and were subjected to a lot of discrimination, even the white men (many of which who came up from Alabama and Louisiana and were Cajun). Their children would be victims of this discrimination for every generation since then. So when I see white people hastily claiming that their “native” it honestly feels like they’re willing to take the “cool” factor, but they are not willing to cast aside their racial privilege.
Back to AZ, Many of these people stopped worrying about that once it became time to really hammer home the AZ is for white people mentality that seems to pervade my state right now. Then any connection to any indigenous groups or Mexico sort of became unpopular.
@ Duck,
“Those were some great one-llners weren’t they? haha And they were all true, too.”
Exactly why your totally not the sort to talk about any presentation of truthful information. Honestly they were “great”, in that hilarious proving my point sort of way.
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@ Uncle Milton
I know your comment was meant for Cleonette, but it really is so good to hear that. I applaud anyone who makes an effort to learn, even if it is not smooth the first few times. I personally congratulate you because any time you have information to share or questions are asked you share it. No attitude or combative behavior.
I have gotten that twice when I probed a person a little too much. With Doug and recently with sw6. You automatically become stupid, trashy, etc. simply because you asked a few questions that they do not want to answer or admit to. Its frustrating, so it does become the why are you here question repeatedly. I can be quite brutal at times when I want to be, but I prefer to get to know someone first before I determine if that is necessary.
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@ Yawn
Unfortunately, a great deal of African Americans seek to validate any rumors of Native American blood in their ancestry. I remember one records site stated that when they opened their records to the public, concerning Native Americans, it was mostly Black Americans that came to research them.
Many Black Americans claim to be from the so-called Blackfoot tribe, which wasn’t really in the area commonly associated with slavery. Because of this I often joke that such people are really related to the “Whitefoot tribe” because those “high cheek bones” and straight black hair their grandmothers had actually came from European ancestry instead.
I personally never believed such rumors about my own family, but my aunt is taking one of those infamous DNA tests soon, so I guess I will know for certain (at least as it pertains to my father’s side of the family). Here in the U.S., some tribes complained about Blacks being in their ranks and recently expelled the descendants of Native owned slaves, called Freedmen. Personally, I wouldn’t want to be a part of a group that doesn’t want me.
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FWIW I lived in Alabama for about 12 years. It was wonderful.. in the rear view mirror… my sympathies to you.
HA! That gave me a good laugh!
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I need to watch this movie, Tsotsi. ANywhere else here have already seen it?
http://www.tsotsi.com/english/index.php?m1=film
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That is interesting, I wonder why that is the case.
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To Someguy:
The only thing keeping America from becoming a feudal system fueled by the toiling of millions of White serfs and peons is the presence of minorities. If Blacks and Mexicans weren’t here, there would be a whole lot of unhappy White folks around.
Why wouldn’t it look more like Australia with a smaller Gini index, universal healthcare, and strong unions…?
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@ deedee7789
Saw it, enjoyed it. Definitely worth the rental.
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@ Uncle Milton
Aborigines and Polynesians.
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” I lived in Alabama for about 12 years. It was wonderful.. in the rear view mirror… my sympathies to you.”
Tell me about it…. All sorts of awfulness.
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@ Sharina
Black crime is NOT as high as the media states it is. It’s more televised, printed and advertised as a way to make white America feel better for having racist tendencies. Also, black men have been unfairly represented as the ” thug in the shadows” , a dumb oaf bent on raping as many white women as possible while white men are the “intellectual” criminal masterminds, a la Bernie Madoff, that needs studying and classroom discussions.
The thing that sickens me is the admiration for the intellectual criminal. People actually aspire to be just like him; smart, suave, debonair but ruthless.
Not one person wants to be the “thug” that steals a 100.00 tv. But the Ponzi scheming mastermind…now that’s impressive!
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“I personally never believed such rumors about my own family, but my aunt is taking one of those infamous DNA tests soon, so I guess I will know for certain (at least as it pertains to my father’s side of the family). Here in the U.S., some tribes complained about Blacks being in their ranks and recently expelled the descendants of Native owned slaves, called Freedmen. Personally, I wouldn’t want to be a part of a group that doesn’t want me.”
Yeah, I recently heard about that and find it just wrong. I don’t know, I know Natives have the right to preserve their own culture and what not as well as anyone else but I find in expelling decendants of black slaves it’s really nothing more than a slap in the face. I don’t know who in their right mind would want to associate with them after that, native or not.
It’s odd though, sadly that story seems to reflect on the fact that us whites seem to have it better off, even when it comes to tribal lineage.
Hopefully whatever it is you find makes you happy though. It really is a double-edged sword with the tests.
“Many Black Americans claim to be from the so-called Blackfoot tribe, which wasn’t really in the area commonly associated with slavery. Because of this I often joke that such people are really related to the “Whitefoot tribe” because those “high cheek bones” and straight black hair their grandmothers had actually came from European ancestry instead”
Yeah, whites from the USA specifically tend to claim Cherokee(princess grandmother)? I believe .. I don’t know but I know not all can be believed. Here, I’m hardpressed to find anyone related to the Algonquins. Someone even had to nerve to tell me “Algonquin? Isn’t that a language group and not a native group?”
But yeah, this has been interesting. I’ve never really been able to talk to much people regarding natives and what not, you know. Some whites here in Canada dislike the Natives, but I’ve met my friend’s family (she’s Ojibwe) and her family are the nicest people you’d ever meet. I think I might have shocked her family too, cause her mother and father were always you know suspicious of whites, they didn’t really trust us but in the end we both learned that once the guard is down It’s actually pretty damn interesting. I rarely converse with my friend anymore, but I still miss her mother, father, and her niece, it really changed my perception of Natives also to be honest as I had never really met any until I met her and her family.
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@ Yawn and Ace
May I say something?
In American culture, Indian romanticism runs wild. Pocahontas’ love affair with John Smith is deemed…cute. Wasn’t she, like, a prepubesant girl when they married? The beautiful Indian princess and the fierce but handsome warrior seems to make the white populous swoon.
All in all, it’s a form of reducing real people into caricatures. Minstrel shows comes to mind… I find it offensive and hate hearing about it. If you really felt that strongly about the Native culture, you’d learn a thing or two and stop fantasizing about how all Indians have pow-wows, live in huts and eat corn.
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Guys, it’s late for me and I have yet ANOTHER stupid meeting tomorrow…Have a good night folks.
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To Someguy:
Aborigines and Polynesians.
Together about 3% of Australia’s population, they offer a buffer..? Australia, in more recent years has also had it’s fair share of Asian immigration, but supposedly Asians have a somewhat higher income than white Australians.
I basically feel the opposite about the US.. in my opinion diversity offers the opportunity to internally divide and conquer… but I would be open to hear why you think a more homogeneous US would become more hierarchical.
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Sharina and Truth,
There were many studies that lead to the same conclusion. Last year the study was conducted regarding the news in Pittsburgh. I wrote about it, but if you want to see the articles and PDF documents, just click on the underlined words:
http://brothawolf.wordpress.com/2011/11/09/brothas-in-the-news/
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@Truth
“you’d learn a thing or two and stop fantasizing about how all Indians have pow-wows, live in huts and eat corn.”
I know more than that, I know the troubles they go though. My friends family had to choose to live on a reservation and preserve their culture, or move to Toronto and have a better life. They chose the city, though I can’t be too shocked about it given the state some Rez are in.
And I never once though they “ate corn”, I know they have pow-wows but they do more than that, and they don’t live in huts.. atleast to my knowledge.
And Truth, I already mentioned it to you before. I do wish to learn more, but come on honestly, I’d hate to be living out the stereotypical white guy of wanting to be “Native”. As much as want to believe and hold on to my native side, I must remember realistically I’ve lived my life so far as a run-of-the-mill white guy. The reason I’ve been so hesistant to even dive in deeper in Native culture is strictly because I don’t want to annoy them.
As much as I wanted to ask my friend and her family all there is to know about Native culture, I kind of just stayed silent, which felt better than the other option, especially after seeing how such people tend to be perceived as “Wannabes”.
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@ Yawn,
Yeah, I’ve had a lot of people try to imply to me that I’m one of those “wannabes” because of stuff like that, so I get how frustrating it can be to want to explore your heritage without coming off as something annoying. Like I said in my above comment to you, I can also sort of understand why people find it annoying when people (especially young people who grew up as white) suddenly choose to claim they’re Cherokee or something.
My family chose to follow where the work was way back when, so the majority of stuff we experienced was the typical “racism” of the day. But it still hurts to see that so many indigenous people can treat people who don’t “look native” like outsiders. Maybe because I know that at the end of the day, that’s how I’m seen, so it sort of feels like I have no place. Usually people try to claim that I’m just “making it up” because our family doesn’t live on a reservation or because we don’t live where certain tribes were traditionally stated to have originated or established themselves. If I tell them I’m a military brat, and my ancestors followed factories or were planters, they seem to think that makes me even less able to claim that part of my ancestry, even though it is the largest, most prominent part.
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“My family chose to follow where the work was way back when, so the majority of stuff we experienced was the typical “racism” of the day. But it still hurts to see that so many indigenous people can treat people who don’t “look native” like outsiders. Maybe because I know that at the end of the day, that’s how I’m seen, so it sort of feels like I have no place. Usually people try to claim that I’m just “making it up” because our family doesn’t live on a reservation or because we don’t live where certain tribes were traditionally stated to have originated or established themselves. If I tell them I’m a military brat, and my ancestors followed factories or were planters, they seem to think that makes me even less able to claim that part of my ancestry, even though it is the largest, most prominent part”
Yeah, I feel your pain. I know even if I were to gain my status card, and if I ever talk to my father get myself registered within the tribe and possibly be proactive with activitys and events that happen, I’d be seen as a outsider no matter the circumstances. To me, I’m getting my status card (selfishly) just to make myself feel like I’m accepted and to be happy with my sense of identity (which was why I also mentioned to SG that I plan on getting a test done to find out what my white side consists of).
I also tend to not mention I happen to have some Native, strictly because like you people tend to think I’m “making” it up. I don’t know, It’s hard to be raised one way, while letting be known you are half of something else. Sometimes I do feel as though I’d have been better off just being born full white, or atleast never knowing or just forgetting. But I can’t do that, I owe it to myself and to my family to remember who and “what” I am.
At the end of the day, there isn’t much you can do to sway the opinions of some people. Either you’re accepted or not, but I try not to let it get me down.
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@ Yawn,
“You people tend to think I’m making it up”
Not trying to be facetious, but what do you mean “you people”. I want to make sure my response to you is tailored right but I want to clarify, do you mean people on this blog, or people who identify themselves as “native” or “indigenous” or “first nations”? Or do you mean mixed raced people?
Other than that:
Yeah, that’s sort of where I am with this. According to my mother’s research, the members of our family who were white were Scottish, Irish, and “Cajun” for the most part. And when I say we mainly are indigenous, that’s still counting other continents or islands. We are a very racially mixed family, so when we couple that with other things we’ve found out I suppose I can understand why people can be skeptical. That’s great that you’re going to get your status card, if anything, if it helps your sense of identity that’s a good thing.
IMO, I don’t think we think you’re making it up, so much as we’re used to people saying it to “exotify” themselves or profit. That was a big trend down here for a long time. They aren’t so quick to make claims or explore it when it can possibly used other them (i.e. Arizona). Like I said in my first response to you, the white ancestors in our family who would marry the “native” women lost the privilege that their skin gave them before hand. Similar to the experiences of people who raised families with black people. They were no longer identified as “white” but “mulatto”, and all of their children were from then onward. So I know there can be a very heavy price to recognizing a part of your heritage, and often you are an outsider on both fronts. So pretty much, it was wrong of me to presume you might be lying because you were raised as white, so I apologize for anything I said that invalidated your identity.
“Sometimes I do feel as though I’d have been better off just being born full white, or atleast never knowing or just forgetting. But I can’t do that, I owe it to myself and to my family to remember who and “what” I am.”
That’s something I can identify with.
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“Not trying to be facetious, but what do you mean “you people”. I want to make sure my response to you is tailored right but I want to clarify, do you mean people on this blog, or people who identify themselves as “native” or “indigenous” or “first nations”? Or do you mean mixed raced people? ”
Sorry, I tend to say that in case of anyone really. It’s not meant to target anyone specific. Sorry, I don’t really ugh, socialize much.
Most people I met just look and go “Ah I see”, some garner the reaction of “but you’re white, you can’t be native”. Among Natives it’s really a hit or miss, depending on the history of the specific peoples.
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@ Yawn,
No it’s okay I was just trying to clarify so that I could write a decent response.
Also, yeah, I’ve gotten that reaction to, though usually it’s “You can’t be native, your *insert skin color assumption here*.” If I am around black people, usually it’s not as bad. When I’m around white people it’s a mix of “COOL!” and “Well your too dark.” With “natives” it sort of seems like I’m being judged by my phenotype more than anything else. I guess it really is a hit or miss depending, because Seminoles haven’t given me nearly as much of a “huh.” as others. Neither have South Americans (at least the ones who didn’t think my dad was white). Oddly enough, I don’t get questioned if I say that I have East Asian ancestry.
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“Oddly enough, I don’t get questioned if I say that I have East Asian ancestry”
Hmm, that is odd. I don’t know, I guess if you have East Asian ancestry it’s more believable to some people as opposed to Native.
“They were no longer identified as “white” but “mulatto”, and all of their children were from then onward. So I know there can be a very heavy price to recognizing a part of your heritage, and often you are an outsider on both fronts. ”
Yeah, for my mother since she was put up for adoption and was given up by her Native mother we know nothing about her father, nor her mother. But my mother was put up for adoption as a half-breed, so there wasn’t really anything done to deny her heritage to appease whites back then.
She still to this day sees herself as a half-breed, I jokingly do aswell.
My father on the other hand was mixed aswell, his mother was white, he father was full native. That’s why he’s still in the tribe, but I don’t talk to him anymore, so I couldn’t say what he identifies as.
For me, I’ve always just identified as white because that’s just how I’ve seen myself, but realistically I’d wish to be known as mixed. But here in Canada unless you have a status card or are in a tribe you can’t identify yourself as a Native, nor mixed. So sometime in the future I will need to get that done.
I don’t know, it’s confusing to talk about stuff when your mixed. But growing up though race didn’t real play much part of my life, it was only after I got older did it bug me so, to the point were I just had to know, which in the end made me think hard about why I identify as white and If I should just continue to pass for white.
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“Hmm, that is odd. I don’t know, I guess if you have East Asian ancestry it’s more believable to some people as opposed to Native.”
Yeah, which I find even more odd. Even Polynesian is deemed more acceptable an assumption than the possibility that I could be “native”. I honestly never quite was able to grasp why. I had theories that it was related to skin color, since most of us are around the average skin tone for many East/South Asian ethnicities, and we had the “model minority” status, it was likely easier to believe.
“Yeah, for my mother since she was put up for adoption and was given up by her Native mother we know nothing about her father, nor her mother. But my mother was put up for adoption as a half-breed, so there wasn’t really anything done to deny her heritage to appease whites back then.”
I hope I am not being rude by asking: Did your mother ever tell you about what she experienced growing up like that? It seems like there was a common tendency to just give these kids “mulatto” or “half-breed status” and call it a day, but I think that would cause some sort of confusion if you saw yourself one way but were considered something else.
“For me, I’ve always just identified as white because that’s just how I’ve seen myself, but realistically I’d wish to be known as mixed. But here in Canada unless you have a status card or are in a tribe you can’t identify yourself as a Native, nor mixed. So sometime in the future I will need to get that done.”
Well how you see yourself is a part of identity, just as much as what your heritage is. That’s at least one reason why I am starting to realize that basing such things on phenotype can be tricky. Also…Wow, really? I wasn’t under the impression that Canada required that, what is the purpose of the status card there? Is it for benefits? I know that I could actually apply for tribal enrollment for the Blackfeet, but I am not sure what the requirements are for people attempting to get a status card in Canada.
“I don’t know, it’s confusing to talk about stuff when your mixed. But growing up though race didn’t real play much part of my life, it was only after I got older did it bug me so, to the point were I just had to know, which in the end made me think hard about why I identify as white and If I should just continue to pass for white.”
I hear you on that. I couldn’t hope to pass for white in any sense of the word, so growing up race would always play a factor in what I saw myself as. It made little sense to attempt to want to know that I belonged to groups of people who wouldn’t have me if I didn’t look white enough, hence it took a long while for me to ever want to explore any European roots. I figured ignorance might’ve been bliss there.
If you don’t mind me asking, would you continue to pass for white if you completely figured out exactly what ethnic groups you belonged to?
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@ SW6
My issue is that you are telling me I am dishonest but you have no idea what I was being dishonest about. I don’t need to apologize because it is not warranted in this situation. I did not lie, I did not cheat, I don’t see how my statement deceived you in any way, so where exactly am I being dishonest.
At first you did not clarify, but then you did clarify in regards to mannerism and not clothes. I went on to state (along with my opinions and experiences) that clothing is a part of it. I asked a few questions and you got offensive. I still believe clothing is part of it whether you are going to admit that or not. If an actor is going to portray a role from the 1800s do they where today’s street clothes? No. Same thing applies.
As I have stated before I will provide an apology when it is warranted, but you have not done or pointed out anything that warrants one. You single-handedly made something out of nothing. To sit and try and justify your action is ridiculous. You mad a mistake in your rush to judgement and I see no apology from you, but for you to imply I need to is priceless.
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“The American Indian Comedy Slam “Trailer””
http://www.lolcomedy.tv/videos/1042973186001/
I have seen it before. It provides a funny take on a few guys experiences of being Native in the US. Not always funny but very interesting to watch.
@truthbetold
“In American culture, Indian romanticism runs wild. Pocahontas’ love affair with John Smith is deemed…cute. Wasn’t she, like, a prepubesant girl when they married? The beautiful Indian princess and the fierce but handsome warrior seems to make the white populous swoon…”
Yes, she was what 12 years old..Disney just annoys me so much with its immense amount of stereotyping and sterilization of the facts (oh sleeping Beauty was impregnated twice by the prince and woke up pregnant..no we can fix that, she wakes up from a kiss and lives HAPPILY EVER AFTER…D:)
@Yawn and Ace
I never knew that about the “mulatto”/ “half-breed” status for children with Native and White ancestry. You two are really having an interesting exchange.
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@ SW6
I want to make it clear to you that I will not under any circumstances apologize for my opinion. Taking clothes out of the equation it stands the same. Ok so a person acts gangster, but I will still treat them the same and I will still see them the same. I don’t think “Oh black person alert!” I think hip hop scene gangster attitude or better yet ghetto attitude. Does not apply a skin color for me. My sister acts that way and so does her white friend, but I don’t care. Does it mean they are going to rob, kill, or steal from me? No. Does it mean she sells drugs? No.
I have had what people would call ghetto nurses care for me when in the hospital and that has been some of the best care I have had in the world. They wear scrubs and may talk a certain way, but do I care. No. Heck I had a white nurse named Kenya take care of me, but I did not say to her hey that’s a black girls name. It’s a pretty name and I did not apply a skin color for her having it. My husband on the other hand did.
I do not attach a behavior, style of dress, etc. to a skin color. I have seen to many people cross the line of modern day behavior to attach a skin color to it. There are black goths, black heavy metal rockers, black gangsters; the list goes on but what most people fail to realize is that blacks are just as individual as whites. We are our own people and the problem is when white people believe they are only one type of people and that type is bad. It does not really matter what a black person wears as it will always be considered bad.
I just named different persona’s a black person portrays, but low and behold the only one people want to pick out that is suppose to attribute to blacks is gangster. In my eyes acting a certain way does not mean bad. I have a three chance rule. If you screw me over three times then I will announce you as bad, but just because you act a certain way does not announce you as bad.
I believe I did make note to you referring to only mannerism and not clothing. I stated that they go hand in hand, which I believe they do. Just because you do not share my thoughts does not mean I am being dishonest. I am being true with myself and anyone who wants my opinion. If you don’t like it then keep it moving.
It disgusts me that you were wrong about something and instead of even owning up to that you try to push it off on me. You unnecessarily became defensive and the only thing you have to say is “I was talking about mannerism and you went on about clothes.” People like you are what is wrong with society. No integrity and trashy.
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@ SW6
I am noticing that you only pick parts of what I say so let me make this short and quick. You don’t need to apologize and I am glad you do not want me to because I was not going to give it. Simple as that. read into this anyway you like. You already seem to have a preconceived notion of me.
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SW6, I think I got you mixed with someone else. I apologize.
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@ truthbetold
I am sorry it took me so long to respond back to you. The system is hypocritical from what I have been able to see. I don’t know if you have see the movie American Violet, but it tells a lot about how much injustice the system carries as far as legal wise. As far as in the class room and the study of intellectual criminals, I must admit that I was one of those students eager to learn more about Bundy and Manson. It carried some level of excitement for me and also for the many other white students in my class. Why is a major question I have been asking myself. I still have no answer.
@ brothawolf
Thank you for that link. That was some very interesting reading.
@ SW6
“I want to make it clear to you that I will not under any circumstances apologize for my opinion.”–I realize my mistake in how I presented that sentence. It is incomplete as to what I was trying to say. Frankly it should not have been used at all, but I have clarified what I was trying to say in another post or rather what should have been said.
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Ok I have a question and if anyone has any information Please provide it.
I was wondering after some thought when did the gangster attire(sagging jeans and baggy shirts etc.) come about. Was it before the 90s or during the 90s?
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@ Sharina,
I was one of those people who loved taking courses related to True Crime, especially in regards to serial killers. Even took them in college. Good times.
On gangster rap, I recall it starting during the 80s, so I’m sure the influences for that style of dress came probably a few years later.
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White police officers feeding street youth, some Black, drugs for “testing purposes”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/11/minnesota-police-occupy-drugs_n_1510557.html?ref=canada&ir=Canada
The follow-up story to this will be Black youth arrested for dealing drugs. At least everything is caught on camera. So when they have to go to trial, they can actually expose the system for what it is – a sham.
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African Queen – 2face
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_A0fWBHu9pM)
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Just when you thought it was over…
http://diaryofanegress.com/2012/05/12/oh-come-on-ameriklan-2/
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@JT
…D: I looked at the article(drugs from the police) and that is just…depressing.
@truthbetold
That is very disturbing. Shooting range target that alludes to the young man that was murdered. That says a lot as well as the Neo nazi group that was caught in Florida who was ready to start a race war.
I’m going back to playing Tokimeki Memorial Girl’s Side 1st Love Plus and pursuing Kazuma Suzuka ❤ .
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I’m sooooo disgusted! First they killed him Then they killed his character. Now they are mocking him.
****sighs****
I need a drink.
Later on, I’m writing a post about this…
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@ Deedee7789,
Agreed. Morally, I am not opposed to drug usage per se (it would be hypocritical for me to rail against marijuana for example) however i am dead set against the war on the Black male and women that is guised under the drug war. Especially, when the authorities have a history of racially profiling, incarcerating or killing Black individuals that they implicate with drugs.
If you are going to provide drugs, take the next step and make them legal. Because setting youth up with drugs and then ruining their lives at later ages when or if you catch them with a quantity or selling, in my opinion, is the definition of white evilness.
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@ Ace
Thank you for that information. I am actually trying to figure out about what time it was where a black persons style of dress became an issue for racist whites or rather just another excuse to hate black people.
@ SW6
I know what you mean in that regard. I am fairly new to this board and I have been presented with things that have made my jaw drop. It really reminds me how much of a sheltered bubble I have been living in. Even my bubble is starting to bust as I notice more and more bouts of racism pop up everyday.
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Guys,
I just posted this.
http://diaryofanegress.com/2012/05/13/it-aint-over-till-its-over/
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@ Truthbetold,
That was…appalling. And I bet the person will claim he’s protected under “free speech” sooner or later. If I were Trayvon’s family, I’d try to sue. Make them regret turning my son’s senseless death into mockery for racists and gun nuts. They’d never be able to recover.
Also, I’m going to take a look at your post now.
@ SW6,
“Thank you Ace. I’m being a stickler about it not because the two can’t be connected in general discussion but because in my specific case the topic was slightly different. I specifically leave out clothing and only ever mentioned mannerism/behaving. So if someone takes issue with what I said they have to stick to what I actually said and therefore the topic becomes: “SW6 said such and such here is why this particular point he made is crap.” It doesn’t have to be as literal as this, I’m just saying one has to address an opponents actual claims.”
I understand what your saying. I wouldn’t want to derail a conversation with whether or not I felt clothes could count, and I do agree I’d have to address what you said, not what I thought you said.
“Ahhhhhh! You see, you’ve said something so key here. Yeah, of course the white kid or the white person for that matter, doesn’t get stereotyped. Because first they own the media that puts out stereotyping propaganda. It’s supposed to be taken as a given that whites are the “default human being.” Have a look at this:
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2010/06/16/why-do-the-japanese-draw-themselves-as-white/”
Exactly agree with you there. Hence why groups of PoC who live in Eurocentric countries have to be a lot careful what images get put out, we don’t really get the benefit of the doubt in regards to what we’re portrayed as and what we’re not.
“•What’s unfair is letting them intoxicate themselves by buying into a fake world created by a record company exec and a recording “artist” who are just selling a product but calling it rap “culture”. What’s unfair is letting them adopt fake ideas about manhood and womanhood that are promoted in the rap “mystique.””
True. I agree with this too. I think that, maybe, these artists and execs should be more careful in what sort of things they’re presenting. I just think that many people say things like, “Well they wan’t to be stereotyped that way so its their fault”, and I’m usually thinking, “Well have you TRIED not stereotyping them?” I think stereotypes are a method of laziness, instead of using effort like they do with each other, they resort to low-effort thinking to categorize groups they don’t belong to.
”
•Yes, they should find better role models, but that’s usually all they see. Ace, you’re being a softie here, and black people being soft ain’t gonna get them far, it’ll get us extinct! The first role models in a child’s life are: The Parents. I read The Autobiography of Malcolm X in my mid teens. You know whose copy I read: my father’s. My father wasn’t even around, he hadn’t been for years. But that’s the impact of a parent even in his absence I did things that he had done. I read things he had read. I sought out role models that he sort of planted when I was real young. I had fun and goofed off too but I knew what had real value and what was less worthy of admiration. Parents need to indoctrinate their kids on good and worthy role models to have.”
Well I agree completely with you there. Parents need to do everything they can to teach their kids on how they should be and who constitutes a good role model. I am mainly referring to how media is worshipped in Western cultures, so a lot of black kids aren’t getting to see the role models they should in venues a lot of young people frequent.
“•why should people be trying to apply stereotypes to them?
Your idealism coming through loud and clear here. I’m not putting it down. Yes, if only one could be completely free to be him/herself. But, the stereotypes do happen, and why? We touched on it above. Whites are the “default” everyone else is “the other.””
Yeah, I’d like to claim I was a “realist” but my views are more than idealistic. I understand that the world isn’t as free as I’d like, and it often bothers me. If white’s are the “norm” and everyone else is an “other”, how do we work past negative stereotypes of PoC, will it even matter if we abandoned them? Like, if every single PoC stopped acting like anything that could be seen as negative representation, do you think that racists would just find something else negative to tack on us?
“Well, stereotypes are there to get people to think in certain ways or continue a status quo. Why keep repeating the message if peoples minds are already set as you say. It was recognized sometime ago that the public mind had to be managed.”
Very true. I also agree that they are often used to control or subjugate parts of the population, aka justifying harsher treatment against people who appear to glorify violence via music. I notice that the people who do not live according to these stereotypes are often punished for stepping outside of that acceptable image.
“Putting aside the issue of changing how whites think about blacks, there are plenty of black people who don’t care what whites think but just insist on being respected when they have to engage with them. It helps if there aren’t large swaths of us in society acting out some silly image presented in a rap vid, and saying things like, “U know-wha-AhmSayin,” every other sentence.”
I agree with you. I would hope that people would just recieve respect as a “golden rule” sort of thing. But I recognize that just won’t be the case. Part of me wonders, however, if it would ever make a difference. Part of me thinks that even if every one of them just threw down any association with rap (or it’s imagery), people would still find a reason to hurt them, insult them, or shoot them.
”
It’s a long comment–sorry.”
No prob. I’m a big fan of both using and reading long comments. 🙂
@ JT,
I agree for the most part. I despise drugs of all kinds. I do not like the impact it has or how widespread it’s damage can be. But I don’t like how it’s just an excuse to attack black and brown people disguised as an attempt to stamp out harmful drugs.
@ Sharina,
No prob, I’ve heard that it was the late 80’s for that, maybe early 90’s. I asked family members who were actually older than toddler age during that time, and they said that when people who dressed in certain ways began venting frustration about their lives, people associated their dress with “gangster” rap. Sort of like Zoot suits and their association with black and brown “criminals”.
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Hi guys. Happy Mother’s Day to all the moms out there! Speaking of moms, this is the first time I will be remembering my mom on Mother’s Day since she passed away from cancer earlier this year.
I’ve been a bit of an emotional wreck the last few days. While I’ve been shopping here and there, it’s painful to watch people buy gifts for their mothers knowing my mom is no longer around. It’s still so hard to believe my mom’s gone, you know?
Shortly, I plan to visit my mom at the cemetery and place a bouquet of roses on her grave, and read a card to her. I also have some heartfelt words I’d like to say to here. *sigh*
My family and I are keeping her memory alive from now on by making this a tradition for every Mother’s Day. And I am greatly comforted by this. Even though my mom may not be here in person, I know she is here with me in spirit. She meant so much to me and I won’t forget her. Again, Happy Mother’s Day everyone! And especially to my sweet mom, Rosario aka Mama Rose! I will always love you! RIP
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@ Leigh204,
Thank you for your message. I hope that you and Mama Rose enjoy your day together. There is no doubt in my mind that she loves you fiercely and will be there to love and guide you.
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@ Leigh
Thanks for sharing your heart!
🙂
<>
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@ Ace,
There is one branch of developmental psychology that argues that substance addiction is related (along with other variables) with parent-to-child hostility between the early ages of 0-5.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1851920/
If this were (altogether) true, i would suggest that many adolescents/adults are not equipped with therapeutic resources to address these underlying issues. Nor that therapy can erase those early difficult times in the memory of the individual (ever).
People learn how to cope in the best way they know possible. Drug use is just an expression of their coping pattern, and while often destructive to the persons emotion/cognitive life, should be regarded as an expression of their personal difficulty instead of viewed as an object of taboo with which our society currently views it.
Disapproving drugs, for me, isn’t going to make anything change. Saying that drugs are okay by making them accessible, but not the best choice, might allow us to actually look closer at what conditions exist in the adolescent/adult, their parents before them, and social pressures more widely. Instead of just getting hung up on drugs and the evil that they represent.
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@ Leigh,
That’s a beautiful message, and Happy Mother’s Day to you too. 🙂
@ JT,
First, thanks for the link.
You make a very forceful point. I had real argument against what you’ve said, not without seeming like I was resorting to that annoying “bootstrap myth” tailored to drug use.
I’m assuming you think I view it as some “object of taboo” due to societies views. In reality I don’t, at least not entirely. My father grew up in places where drug use was heavy, often the only escape from unbreakable poverty. I never had to live in situations drastic enough for drugs to be an option, so I might have done something bad (something I hate when other people do it) and used my privilege to judge someone else, in an almost self-righteous manner. I just know, due to how substance abuse has really hurt people close to our family, and caused them to hurt people close to them. I admit, my view of drug users can be less than sympathetic which, I know, is a biased position, and these issues are not the ones biased people can truly hope to solve. I wish that all drugs could have been somehow, magically removed, and I also recognize how people have never truly been invested in ridding society of ills that could drive people to drug use. They just used drugs as a way to wage campaigns against PoC and other “undesirables” like the poor and single mothers.
Saying they’re alright but not the best choice, IMO, could be an admirable way to attempt to solve these problems. It could help by balancing the discussion, removing the element which seeks to “hate the sinner” along with the “sin”. But, what if that only leaves the door open for people to resort to it instead of finding healthier ways to solve their problems. Are they going to eventually try to change their life for the better, or are they going to see the drugs, know it’s “alright” and be content with the quicker relief and gratification, no matter how temporary?
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@leigh204
Happy Mother’s Day and it is good that you are getting pass being sad about your mother’s death and have realized that she’s not truly gone. You should always keep her in your heart and thoughts and I’m sure your family’s new Mother’s Day tradition will bring you much needed peace of mind.
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Happy Mother’s Day, Leigh.
Just because you can’t see her doesn’t mean she’s not around.
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Leigh, Im sorry for your loss, I feel you , I lost my mother recently also, and, it is affecting me too
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I admit, my view of drug users can be less than sympathetic which, I know, is a biased position, and these issues are not the ones biased people can truly hope to solve. I wish that all drugs could have been somehow, magically removed, and I also recognize how people have never truly been invested in ridding society of ills that could drive people to drug use. They just used drugs as a way to wage campaigns against PoC and other “undesirables” like the poor and single mothers.
Saying they’re alright but not the best choice, IMO, could be an admirable way to attempt to solve these problems. It could help by balancing the discussion, removing the element which seeks to “hate the sinner” along with the “sin”. But, what if that only leaves the door open for people to resort to it instead of finding healthier ways to solve their problems. Are they going to eventually try to change their life for the better, or are they going to see the drugs, know it’s “alright” and be content with the quicker relief and gratification, no matter how temporary?”
”
”
@ Ace,
I am not going to lie – people that are on drugs can be scary and i can be less than sympathetic when i see them coming down the street or asking for change. For example, my brother was addicted to hard drugs and would steal anything that wasn’t bolted down to support his habit.This was while i was growing up, say, 13-21, so to say i resented him would be an understatement when i would have the few valuables that i had taken from me suddenly to support his addiction for those 8 or so years. I could never trust that if i were gone from the house for any period of time, my property would be safe. And my single mother refused to boot him out regardless of what he did because she loved him too much and was afraid of what would happen as a consequence of him being outside of her (at least nominal) supervision.
So with that being said, I agree with you – it can be hard to be sympathetic. But like you who has seen it within your extended community, somehow you can come out on the other side of the issue and say – what is really going on here?
I think if people were able to access it freely, the underground market and all of its perils (e.g. sky rocketed pricing causing people to go to extreme lengths to access the drug) would be mitigated. Moreover, a culture of acceptance might allow people to look at themself with more esteem when looking in the mirror instead of the culture of shame which causes people greater self-loathing which (for my knowledge, anyway) causes people to look to relieve themselves through the drug-induced high.
Not even touching the criminal system and the negative psycho-social impact it has on the individual once brought into it via a minor/major drug charge.
If i were president/prime minister, i would legalize all drugs tomorrow. The harm of their prohibition, in my opinion, outweighs the benefits induced by the lack of their accessibility.
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@ SW6
Thank you for understanding.
I wrote about that with many more topic on my blog.
http://diaryofanegress.wordpress.com
Since whites are the default, viewers, readers and listeners what to hear/see “themselves” being represented. Even if it’s lies to make them feel better.
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@SW6
Would you believe me if I said I were white? With no evidence or experience to back up my claims, I mean? I feel as if my colour makes whites question the validity of my claims. No judgement, just an observation.
Also. I don’t sugar coat anything. The shock of truthful sentences can be jarring.
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@ leigh204
Thank you for that message. It really brought tears to my eyes.
For everyone who may have to spend this mother’s day without your mother. Just remember she lives in you. Take comfort in knowing you are making her smile right now.
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@ Leigh
Thank you for sharing. *Hugs* to you and your family! I hope Mother’s Day will become a day filled more with happy memories of your mother and less sadness.
@ B.R.
I’m sorry for your loss. It is a terrible thing to lose someone so close to us. Even though it doesn’t seem visible on the horizon right now, there will be a day when the pain is gone and all you have are all the good feelings your mother brought you in life. *Hugs*
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@B.R.
I can’t even imagine what you and Leigh are going through. Just take things at your own pace and remember to keep your mother in your heart and thoughts. She is still with you.
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@ Leigh and B.R.
Hugs to you both. Your mom is with you in spirit.
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@ Ace,
This documentary on the meth epidemic offers compelling support AGAINST the availability of drugs (and in the case of methamphetemine, the key ingredients for production which happen to be found in common cold medicines, ephedrine and pseudoephedrine)
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/meth/
The hyper-addictive quality of meth makes it quite terrifying stuff. What people will do on it when they are high off it reaffirms what you were suggesting – that it should be banned outright as people are out of control when on it and will do anything to maintain their “euphoric” high.
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Happy Mother’s Day to all.
Leigh and B.R. you both are in my thoughts.
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@SW6
I understand.
I also distance myself from certain types of people. Sometimes, though, You can’t “back it up”. Sometimes racism comes in the form of a vibe you get from certain people.
Any truth that goes against the grain will be jarring. You are telling people what they don’t want to hear.
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Iris, Deedee, Trughbetold, Brothawolf, Sharina , thank you all so much for your very kind words…it means a lot to me.
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Sorry Truthbetold, I misspelled your name…I make the post and read it over and just dont see the mistake anyway…lol
My continued sympathies and well wishes to Leigh and anyone else who has lost someone recently in their lives also
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It’s Ok. LOL!
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Am I the only black person in America who thinks this is the most “sane” blog geared toward black people to discuss black issues?
I would hate to think that at 28 i’m losing it.
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Just wanted send a warm hello and ask a question =) Anybody here living with or knows someone w/Lupus?
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@ theworldwelive in
I’m sorry! I don’t!
@ everybody
More proof against race realism (like any was needed lol): social stress (e.g. via social status) affects the expression of approximately 1000 genes, many which affect us deleteriously in a vast array of ways.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/04/120409164513.htm
I wonder what this would mean in application to institutionalised racism and its effects on the gene expression of those affected?
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@ Phoebe
You are not alone.
And yes, if not for sane black blogs…I don’t know where we’d be.
@SW6
Last night, my family and I talked about the islands. We have family in the farming business, sugar cane, chickens and such, down there. Life in the islands is slower paced and less aggressive than life over here.
For instance, if you need food or seafood, you can go fishing, trade a yam or mango for some of your neighbours tomatoes, peas, etc..And I won’t lie, being around your own people of colour is less stressful and anxiety-stricken than being around the attitude of white Americans.
Finding a job isn’t that hard IF you have a good trade/skill or a good education. My cousin raises chickens, has his own farm and is doing VERY well. If, on the other hand, you’re an ordinary Joe Schmo, life can and will be tough. BUT, I think life here in the states is tough also. Also, some areas like Trenchtown and Kingston are gang ridden and can be very dangerous…just like Camden, Trenton and Oakland over here.
If you are in need, your American neighbours will not help you, if anything, they’ll call the cops. I’m tired and worn out of AmeriKlan. I’m just plain done with the hypocrisy, hatred and murder of my people. Don’t get me wrong, hate is everywhere. So is prejudice…but the varying degree of which you have to deal with it…well, I guess that’s up to you.
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@ the world we livein
Yes, my patients…why?
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@Peanut
From your posted article “..At the time, four supervisors and an internal affairs detective signed off that Wheeler’s use of force met police policy, according to WSB-TV.”
Kicking a pregnant woman in the stomach..was acceptable? I..I have no words.
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@ B.R.
You’re welcome. 🙂
@ The world we live in
My cousin was hospitalised with lupus last year. However, she is on the other side of the world and I was unable to be there. So, depending on what you need to know, Truthbetold may be better able to answer!
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Peanut,
I’m really speechless by that article. It seems black women just can’t get respect anywhere at any time.
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@ V-4
If we took all that we are to believe to be sin then based on some people being black is a sin along with being gay. My family does see GLBT relationships as a sin. No they do not see wearing two types of fabric as a sin. I personally can not fully answer this though because I personally do not talk religious sin with my family based on my extreme views of universal equality.
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@ V-4
This is my stance and I have no apologizes for it. I believe that they should be able to have rights or a civil union recognized by a law. I, however, do not believe that it should be called marriage. As a Christian, I believe that marriage is ordained by God. I believe that a “marriage” not ordained by God is not truly marriage; even between a man and a woman. As far as there being a vote, would I personally vote for it? No, but I wouldn’t vote against it either. I wouldn’t vote on the law at all. I don’t even know why we are voting on this period. Everyone should have access to the same laws, policies, and rights. However, if the law pass, I just think they should call it a civil union or a legal union, but that is just my opinion. My fave cousin in the whole world even respects my view on this and she is a lesbian.
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I personally have never met a black that is violent or even down right hates a GLBT. I personally am a little shocked that it was said. I have always listened to black radio stations who have the token gay guy on it and really just felt that blacks treated gays the same. I guess it does happen in certain areas, but I have never seen it in mine.
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I do know many black, heterosexual men who are homophobic, but they were never violent but I believe they would be if they were pursued by a homosexual man who would not take no for an answer. I have been in that position before. While I didn’t want to be violent with her, it was very annoying that she insisted that I didn’t know I was a lesbian and I never tried it. I’m with Sharina. I don’t see that in my area at all. In fact, all of the GLBT I know personally goes to church so it would be odd here.
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I’m wondering, how do people of different races see eachother’s races in degrees of similarity/acceptability compared to other races?
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Apparently V-4’s comment is no longer avialable. haha
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@ teddy1975
I was not personally accepted by blacks in high school. The only similarities I had with them was skin color. I had a total of 4 black friends that shared my ambitions and beliefs. I was always considered too white and that was based on superficial things. My nose too white, my hair too white, my eyes too white, my voice too white. A majority of my friends were white and even a majority of them I was too different from in terms of education and my need to expand my knowledge.
The similarities of my white friends was our love for grunge and heavy metal music that yell f*ck the world. I was accepted on that alone
The similarities of my black friends was our intellect. We all worked hard to be smart and well dressed women. I could divulge my secret love for opera music or the beautiful sound of the piano etc. to them.
My white friends would see me as strange for this. I actually broke up with my white boyfriend because I was an over achiever and he just wanted sex, marriage, and to drop out of school.
Out of my 4 black friends I now only have 2. Two stopped being a friend when I started dating my now husband and spending less time with them.
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@ duckduckgoofs
Actually V-4 never made the comment in here. It was addressed in another thread and it was off topic so we brought it here to be addressed.
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Sharina
What thread? I’d like to read his comment.
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@duckduckgoofs
Here is the link: https://abagond.wordpress.com/2012/01/02/why-do-whites-hate-demonize-fear-or-look-down-on-blacks/
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@ cleonette
I think it is an interesting issue to explore in regards to GLBT and the black community, but the sad part is I do not believe Michelle or Dana will return to discuss it. I live in the south where you would think they would be much more hard on GLBT, but nope.
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When religion over rides the reason, we end up in a dead end. It has been seen all over the world all over the history. I find it funny that some MEN see that it is their right to step on the shoes of the God and give judgement based on their beliefs. If I am not totally wrong, it is God who gives the judgement, not a mortal man.
Also, I find it hilarious that any one who calls himself/herself a christian, is judging others. After all, what Jesus did with the sinners? Was he the one who threw the first stone? And why did he die?
The taleban believe that they have the right to kill people who do not live they think is the right way. They believe they have the rights of God, the power of God to condemn, to judge. If you think so, no matter what is your religion, you are also a taleban, an extremist, who thinks he/she is a God and has the same authority and right to act on ones own beliefs.
Every man and woman has a right to live her/his life how he feels, as long as he/she does not hurt anyone else. If God does not accept their choices, God will give the jugdement when the time is due. But no one, not a single humanbeing, has that authority. They may claim so, believe so, but they can not have it. It belongs to God alone.
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@ JT,
Thanks for the link, as well as sharing the story of your experiences living with someone who was addicted to drugs. Honestly, you put my views on drugs in a new perspective. A lot of people are very quick to go for these strategies of hurting the user along with the drug, to the point where they have no real allies to support them in their recovery. I think a strategy focused less on punishment and more on prevention would be a good way to help, as long as we didn’t create a society of dependency.
@ Cleonette, Sam,
Well I’m a visible PoC who happens to be LGTBQ. I am also a Christian. However, I was taught that, as a Christian, I can’t inject my personal beliefs into my religion and look for turn of phrase to make things fit, I have to remember that if my life is truly a sin, it isn’t up to men to decide that for me, it’s up to God. And since God created me in his image, my skin and my sexuality are not things that other mortal beings should be given authority over. There is no more reason for that than there was for people to claim a white man and black woman shouldn’t marry, no matter how much they could love each other. As I recall, many claimed this was something ordained “by God” as well. IMO someone can’t be “all for rights” of a group of people and then add a “…except for this one…” Someone’s still being disenfranchised.
I’ve never been openly disenfranchised by black people. In fact, if they don’t approve, they don’t make a scene out of it. I suppose that being disenfranchised themselves allows them to know what it feels like to be “othered” by people who have no right to inject their views into black people’s lives. The majority of homophobia I’ve dealt has been on behalf of white men, they’ve wasted no time in helping me feel unsafe. They were also the most transphobic. I haven’t dealt with a lot of homophobic Christians actually, at worst they’ve said their peace and welcomed me to church as if the conversation never happened. At best they say they welcome me regardless and don’t see my sexuality as some barrier to my worship. It’s usually been either the neo-conservative selective “Christians” or straight male atheists who’ve made my life difficult in that regard.
Now, the question of racism in the LGBTQ communities? That’s a whole different story. Then you deal with a bunch of self-centered people who think that gay and PoC are mutually exclusive groups on a heirachy.
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Open thread is so hard for me because my computor takes so long to buffer up
Ace, what is the “BTQ” part if I may ask ?
In New York, I worked a lot in the dance world.I was employed a lot by gay men, and, I worked with a couple of absolutly incredible lesbian singers ( seperatly) , one was black.If you are in the arts, its best to hang up your hang ups, because there has to be room for all types of people to express themselves
The gay dancers I worked with , were so cool, I mean really, they were incredibly masculine, when they walked down the street they just floated down the sidewalk with buoyant steps and total utter hipness, and I admired them a lot. Their skill and discipline and artistic integrity was something to see
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@ B.R.
Well the common use is L for Lesbian, G for gay, B for bisexual, T for transgendered, and Q, which I have heard used for “queer” or “questioning”. For a while it was just LGBT, and many still just use that, but I (like many others) add the Q, so that I am not excluding people who fall under that classification.
Ah wow. I’ve heard great things about the dance scene in NY, and the art scene in general. As an artist myself (of the digital variety though I also do traditional and writing) I have always been curious about the MFA’s offered up in schools in New York.
A lot of LGBTQ people have to work on their confidence. I don’t like subscribing to stereotypes so I hope no one takes this as me doing that, but the art scene in general can be particularly friendly for LGBTQ people, there’s a lot of appeal in self-expression and work based on body and skill, instead of keeping appearances.
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@ Ace
Growing up in NY, The Village, was the place if you were:
Gay
An artist
A thespian
All of the above.
What a wonderful scene! Living in that area, where it didn’t matter WHO you were, you were accepted and treated well. Christopher street was the place to be for gay men and women! Bars, clubs, clothing stores, galleries….it was endless. I frequented Little Italy, the Blue Note, which is a little Blues / Jazz Club …was just around the corner as well as my favourite Record shop. Then off to St. Marks Place in SoHo for Blue Man Group…
Ahhhhhhh, those were the days.
And oh yeah, all the pot you could smoke! LOL!
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OHH Truthbetold , you are really making me miss New York !!!What a great discription
Ace, there is nothing stereotypical about you, you have blown my mind on this blog
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@ B.R.
Yes, I miss my first home. I love the honey roasted peanuts from the sidewalk vendors and Madison square Garden where I saw the Holyfield vs. Tyson fight where Mikey bit off his ear! LOL! I miss Chinatown’s Dragon resturant where the sesame chicken was to die for. And off to the South Street Seaport for shrimp scampi. The smells of curry, garlic and too many other spices fiiled my nostrils in Brooklyn where a heavy island culture dominated Flatbush Avenue.
I LOOOOOOOOVED NYC! Love the air, the culture, the people’s weirdness and it’s OK to be yourself. Once we went to fashion week on 5th Avenue and giggled the entire way through. They take their Armani VERY seriously! I brought a huge bong in SoHo with a wizard on top of it. That bong was like, 3 feet long!!! Hahahahaha! I smoke that shit on the streets and no one cared…Ha! Then got the munchies and needed Blue Mountain coffee! Hahahaha…That was some good ganja.
I just came back from Harlem. It’s being gentrified…
****sad face****
Wealty whites are moving in and f***ing up that special culture just for jazz, southern, artistic, poor but decent black folks. Now I see Gap and some shit. Where are the african stores I got used to seeing with the dashiki’s in the windows?
****sigh****
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@ Ace
Please do not think for once I personally would think any different of you just because you are LGBTQ. Heck it would not even bother me if you said you were white lol. Even with me being christian I just don’t see an issue with them being able to marry and have a life like I do. I see how happy my marriage makes me and I would not want to deny that right to anyone. I really just don’t see the governments issue with wanting to regulate what goes on in the bedroom or in a persons heart. Love should be open to who makes you happy. Their gender need not apply.
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@truthbetold and Iris =)
Thanks for responding. Truth, you asked “Why?”…My pain has increased over the year and yesterday was so brutal I was starting to lose perspective on the many positives within my life and thought perhaps someone here on the site could recommend an online community for people living with Lupus. I’ve been diligent with working out, eating properly (for the most part ;), and incorporating more mind/body coping strategies to decrease pain, fatigue, and depression, but even these things are becoming more difficult to engage in regularly. Adjustments, transitions, blah blah blah…everything is suffering due to Lupus: employment, self-image, mobility…. I have to stop-the words on the screen are too much for me right now.
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@ the world we live in,
Sorry to hear about what you are going through.
I am responding to this:
**************
“My pain has increased over the year and yesterday was so brutal I was starting to lose perspective on the many positives within my life and thought perhaps someone here on the site could recommend an online community for people living with Lupus.”
****************
I am no doctor nor do I know anyone suffering from lupus, infact I didn’t know what it was until you mentioned it so take the following with a pinch of salt.
I do know of an online health community to do with lifestyle(diet) changes that might be of interest to you and the guy running it is/was a neurosurgeon who advocates for “cold-adaptation”..You’ll probably meet people with lots of different ailments on his site.
The website and in specific the forum section where you can pose your question is here:
http://forum.jackkruse.com/forum.php
There is also an “about” page where you can gather more information.
Don’t know if it’ll help or not in finding the community you seek.
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@ the world we live in
I’m terribly sorry for your condition.
I’m not a physician, I’m a Vascular Specialist, a vascular ultrasound specialist who does surgical cases, etc, angio, cath lab, carotid endartectomies, AAA,etc.
Most of my patients who have lupus come in for a test called a DVT exam. They, mostly are negative. However they are in enormous pain and discomfort.
Usually the doctor gives them cortisone shots or creams if they have skin rashes, usually a “mark” or eruption that needs soothing.
We treat SLE aka lupus, like arthritis, an auto immune disease where the body attacks itself. There is no cure much like MS, Multiple Sclerosis, we treat the SYMPTOM not the disease…
If your pain is in the joints, a cortico-steroid shot can help to ease your discomfort but the pain will return.I am a big believer in herbs. They were here before “modern medicine” ruled supreme.
For pain, cayenne pepper was used in my family. As well as ginger.
If it’s an upset stomach you have, chew peppermint leaves and ginger tonic with a touch of honey. It works great. Also an epsom salt bath works awesome for aching muscles.
For the skin, Aveeno makes an oatmeal bath that we used for chicken pox. Ahhhhh, so soothing.
Please keep hydrated, lots of water, since your risk for stroke, called a CVA in medical jargon, is very likely. Are you on Coumadin? Get tested with a D-Dimer blood test to see your level of thrombin and prothrombin, a blood cloting factor we all have.
What else am I missing? Support groups? No…..I live in rural PA with bambi and black beauty in my yard.
Look on the web to find any groups in your area. I’m here if you need more answers. Also my ex-coworker, now a realtor, used to be in medicine,as a radiologist. He left due to burnout. We still keep in contact so if you need something, please ask.
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@ B.R.
Thanks, I appreciate it.
@ Truthbetold,
Ah wow. Yeah, I honestly wish I got to see that whole scene, I bet it would have really helped my self-confidence to see an art scene that was so inclusive. The gentrification is too bad, I see it still happening in New Jersey, soon it gets too expensive for anyone but trust fund babies and yuppies to live there and you lose the culture that made that area so distinct.
@ Sharina,
Thank you, honestly, that’s all I’ve ever really wanted in that regard. People to see that I have a right to pursue my happiness like everyone else, and respect me regardless. it seems we have a lot of similar outlooks in general. I’m also a Christian, I’ve had to come to terms with how other Christians (or straight PoC) can view me. Usually it’s, “I love that your a PoC, because we should all be working for our rights to be respected the same way white people’s are.” Then when they find out I am LGBTQ they say, “…but marriage is between a man and a woman”. It’s hard for them to remember that I already have my rights questioned for being a visible ethnic minority, so saying that to me is just a double whammy.
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@ Truthbetold: Alright now, you’ve done it! Got me sittin’ here reading your comment rockin’ in my chair right now with ‘ugly face’ tears rolling down my face…Truth, woman to woman, this right here : “I’m here if you need more answers” was right on time. I extend my deepest gratitude for all the gems you’ve deposited in your text (yayayayayay!!) You know I’m huggin’ you right now, ha! ;D
@Wilson: I’m so very appreciative of you taking time out of your day to send me helpful advice.Thank you =)
Thanks guys. To Life!
Keep up the good fight =)
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@ The world we live in
Anytime, my love.
Just ask…
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@ Ace
You would’ve loved it! I used to live in Woodbridge, a little town outside of Colonia, and Hamilton, a sleepy town near Trenton, NJ.
The rent I paid there was 550.00 monthly and it included heat, water and electric. It was glorious. Then the rent skyrocketed to 900.00 monthly for a studio!!! Time to leave. Also, the gangs needed more space so they terrorized us working folks with drug violence and shootings….Plus taxes in Woodbridge, my parents home, was almost 9,000 a year!
I brought my little ranch in PA when I met my husband and never looked back.
As for NYC, you’d be just fine there. No judgement, no finger-pointing, no shame. I lived in a heavy gay community with men who would “walk their boyfriends” on a leash in SoHo. Hahahaha!!! No one even looked at them!
We all were too stoned to care.Ahhhhhhhh……the life. You know what I remember…on Christopher St, in the Village, there was this gay gallery that had pics of penises all over the walls. My friend and neighbour would invite us to the gallery just to gawk! HA!
Ace, the gay scene changed at lot down there. It got…scary. You know? Aggressive almost. Back then, you’d meet some cute guy/girl, have a drink, invite them back to your place….
Now, it’s almost seedy. And classless. A new generation has taken over…you have to be so careful nowadays.
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Truthbetold, absolutly great info for Worldwelivein !! And, wonderful description of New York again ( you are making me laugh about your referances to you know what)…you are really making me weak in the knees…
Worldwelivein, Im very sorry to hear of your pain, and, what a beautiful thing to see the hope you feel from Truthbetold’s info, and from Wilson also. There is another little secret that Truthbetold aluded to in her New York post that might be an incredible fonte of releif for you and it just so happens that there are some States in the USA that have some enightened legisltation now on the book so people really in need can get some releif from their pain.
Ace, you got it going on, what can I say? You know, I actualy wonder sometimes if being “bi” is actualy a higher leval of existance than just straight or gay…
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@ truthbetold Wealty whites are moving in and f***ing up that special culture just for jazz, southern, artistic, poor but decent black folks. Now I see Gap and some shit. Where are the african stores I got used to seeing with the dashiki’s in the windows?
That didn’t sound very tolerant. Don’t you know that diversity is a strength?
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@ B.R.
I also visited San Fran, Chicago, to see Buddy Guy’s Legends Blue’s Club and Lousiana, Burbon Street for the BBQ with home made pineapple BBQ sauce. I was with my agency for 5, almost 6 years. I’ve been almost everywhere, except Alaska, Hawaii and Nebraska…oh wait! and Tennessee.
Memphis has a great blues and jazz scene but I never got a job there, so I never went. In NJ, there’s a place called Tuckerton Seaport where bluegrass festivals pass through every year. I never got into it though, I tried… Did I ever tell you I saw BB King, like 10 times? He’s awesome! He played in Madison Square Garden a bunch of times…He released BB and Friends, a great album with all sorts of stars…Also I have Live at the Regal which is the BEST ALBUM EVER MADE!!! I love him so much. Him and Wynton Marsalis and Ella Fitzgerald. Not one person I’ve heard can scat like her. My favorite song from her is, ” It don’t mean a thing if it ain’t got that swing.” Lawd….I can listen to her all day.
Listen do you like, Latin jazz? I have some Tito Puente..
@ Ace
Visit San Fran, you’d love the openness. And the seafood…
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@ the world we live in
I know a quite a few people with lupus, all women of course. I feel your pain. I was diagnosed with hidradenitis suppurativa in 2007. While its easy to remain positive when things are going well, it’s a uphill battle to be positive when you are in pain. All the doctors, the test, the strange people prodding your body….its hard. Friends and family help but no one can understand like the people who are going through similar experiences. There is this website called http://www.dailystrength.org/ It’s a health support group and I have gotten so much love, advice, and support there from other people with this disorder. Autoimmune disorders are unique to have because most of them have no cure, just treatments that doesn’t even work on everyone. I will pray for your strength and peace.
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Do I like Latin Jazz? I started on bongos and congas, I adore clave, and love Tito Puente
What a great post!! Ill tell you my experiance with BB King. I worked in a soul funk group, and we played one night at a south side of Chicago ( born and raised, never want to go back..hahah) club , ” The Checkmate” in about 1968….there was nobody there!! He went on stage and just killed it…he was a nice guy backstage
You get around , Truthbetold
Do you think medical marijuana might help Worldwelivein?
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Cleonette, sorry to hear about your condition…and good advise for Worldwelivein….by the way, I like your picture
I have arthiritic discs, I have to sleep on the floor, when I stay in a hotel, Im sleeping on the floor…I definitly use herb treatment( you know, that herb Truthbetold mentioned in her New York post)…It is the most efficiant thing I can do to help me, along with some stretching and drumming, which amazingly helps…I would reccomend anyone in pain to think about it…There is no cure for arthiritis…
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@ Cleonette
Oh My! I’m sorry too. Autoimmune diseases are the hardest to treat because honestly, we don’t know what to do for them.
Shots, pills, Biofeedback…they wear off eventually.
Stay strong and I’m here if you need anything.
@ B.R.
Mary Jane is the best “natural” herb for pain, depression, anxiety, even insomnia. I did research for National Cancer Awareness and it does help. It even stabilizes mental dysfunction/ disease. I’m all for it. The united states could pay off its deficit if it would just legalize it! We all do it or know someone who does. It’s not shameful and it doesn’t make you a “bad” person to relax with herb.
BR, the world we live in and Cleonette,
There is a BIG market for illegal drugs in the US. Don’t let the DEA fool you. Keeping drugs in this country and making substances a “crime” only creates a BLACK MARKET, which then turns into violence. Violence then feeds the prison system and we all know who is targeted, Brown People.
It’s all a game….and a plan.
You’d think we’d learn from Prohibition….but no.
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@ The world we live in
I’m sorry to hear of the pain you’re going through and sorry I couldn’t offer any help. However, I’m glad others’ responses have given you a little faith and I hope all the advice people have given will improve your situation. 🙂 Wishing you the best of luck!
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@ B.R.
Thank you so much. I am not a smoker, however, if it became legal I would gladly pour my Lortabs, Oxycotin, etc. away! I hate the way it makes me feel and its chemical/man-made.
@ Truthbetold
Thanks so much. Funny you say that. I have anxiety disorder and insomnia as well. Maybe I should move to Cali? lol
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@ B.R.
Oh thanks for the compliment. I only take pictures when I am mad. I think I have an interesting “mad” face. Look at my blog. lol Someone emailed me and ask me about them. I know it sounds weird, but you should try it. I think I look beautiful mad (conceited….lol).
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@JT
Yes Meth is a bad thing but before we started going hardcore on it wasn’t Meth mainly used by college students and japanese businessmen?
@Sharina/cleonette
Well; the question ultimately is this how come they use “its in the bible” as their reason for why they view it as a sin but other things mentioned in the bible as a sin they give a free pass?
Think about how many people are actively anti-homosexual life styles as compared to how many people actively picket Long John Silvers?
And really since marriages are a religious act the goverment should just do civil unions and leave marriages up to the individual churches to do..
And if the goverment honors non-christian based marriages than why can’t marriages between gay people be honored?
For that matter take the anti-gay marriage argument to its logical conclusion, all marriages of your various hindu’s, pagans and neo-wiccans, etc….should all be considered non-valid and if they want a marriage with the legal benefits they have to convert to christianity and go through the proper marriage ceremony.
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@ Cleonette
Try valerian and St. Johns Wort. Both are natural herbs and will help you to relax and fall asleep. And at night, take a lavender scented bath…
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http://www.buffalonews.com/city/communities/lancaster/article841340.ece
“Boy, 14, killed on bike in hit-run
Witness finds, nabs suspect; vehicular manslaughter, DWI charges are lodged”
I have to applaud the witness. He drove to find the drunk driver. After finding him. the witness informed the drunk drivers father that he just committed a hit and run and killed someone, then drove the drunk driver back to the scene of the crime where police took care of the rest. The restraint of this witness is commendable. The drunk driver never stopped or got out of the car to check on the 14 year old boy. He only got out of his car when he got home and checked his damaged headlight. Benny Kirkland of Lancehster = hero.
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Singer Donna Summer, 63, has died from complications of cancer. RIP, Donna.
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RIP Donna Summer
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NOOOO!!!!!
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OMG – Donna Summer
One of my idols. Many a time I have sang along to one of her songs. Beautiful voice, beautiful woman. RIP
Please do a post abagond so we can share our favourite songs etc…
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@ Demerera:
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Wow – so fast! Thank you 🙂
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Any opinions on this…
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/17/colorado-springs-2nd-grad_n_1524237.html
Do you think its disrespectful and inappropriate?
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@Demerera
The blackface was inappropriate. The child could have portrayed MLK jr without darkening the skin. I think that some seem to not realize that being “black” does not mean dark skinned. He could have very well had a name tag if they thought it wouldn’t be clear who he was representing. I see nothing wrong with the principal suggesting that the young man wash it off.
@Abagond
Could you point me in the direction of a post of yours about how POC distance themselves from other ethnic groups to fit in with their white (or majority) counterparts. I want to put a link there for some thoughts.
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No! Donna Summer 😦
@ Demerera,
Yeah, black doesn’t equal dark skin, and it doesn’t look like i’t s painted on. Some people fail to realize that when they sloppily slather shoe polish or dark foundation on their face. I don’t see why any “black face” could be deemed as a representation of someone. I think that if there was any confusion, then he could have either worn a name tag or it could have been announced who he was representing.
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@Ace and DeeDee
I agree with you both but, I think that the childs parents should be held as responsible here rather than the child which seems to have been the case. I think the head should have explained that it wasnt particularly appropriate. I have seen black children appear in plays as Abraham Lincoln (Arnold in different strokes comes to mind) and all they had to do was don one of those long hats, sideburns and talk in a certain way.
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Sorry to be off topic, but I just came across this 2010 article from the UK’s Guardian about Bush’s memoir, that the lowest point was when Kanye West said “George Bush doesn’t care about black people.” To that comment Bush heard, “‘This man’s a racist.’, I resent it. It’s not true.”
I’ve heard this here Abagond, and so thought I’d share this man’s perspective as he lives in Brittan and may have other twists on this phenomenon.
The article’s author Gary Younge notes that “we have moved to a place where accusations of racism, real or imagined, are routinely understood to be more egregious than actual racist acts themselves.”
He goes on to say that “Bush is more upset by the claim that he didn’t care about black people than the fact that a disproportionate number of black people died during Katrina unnecessarily because his administration did not care enough to save them.”
Lots of good observations from Mr Younge.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2010/nov/21/white-americans-race-obama
Sincerely,
Tricia
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@ Demererra,
I agree with you, the parents should have been held responsible in some way for letting him out like that. The child should have been told why this is considered such an inappropriate act. I’ve never seen any black child throw on “white face” to play a character in school. I am curious why it seems so common to see people think that throwing on “black face” is anything but disrespectful to the person they’re trying to portray?
@ Tricia,
Yeah, that’s always an interesting way to deflect responsibility. He made it about him and Kanye West victimizing him (by calling him “racist”), instead of seeing that his administration had allowed black and poor people to die without so much of a batted eyelash. It’s a common tactic used by people who are accused of doing bad things or acting in a racist manner.
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How odd. . .
I was reading beyondblackandwhite and they did this post congratulating Tamara Mowry Housely for her pregnancy. Yet her twin had a baby not long ago and she didn’t get the same recognition from beyondblackandwhite.
Very, very interesting. I think I know why though–or at least i have a theory.
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RIP Robin Gibb
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^ I know right. He was like my favorite Bee Gee. I seriously thought he was going to make it.
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Guys, I’m almost done with my on-line studies. I’ll be gone from medicine before the year is over.
What a relief…This profession was killing me.
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@phoebeprunelle
I know right. He was like my favorite Bee Gee. I seriously thought he was going to make it.
Yeah, I heard he was getting better – sad news
@Truthbetold
Glad to hear you are nearly done with your studies. Distance learning does have its benefits but, it can be such a solitary approach at the same time. It takes a strong minded determined person to do it – more power to you 🙂
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Truthbetold
Hat tip at you for making that happen!
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Thanks Guys,
I needed to leave for my health.
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@ Truthbetold
Well done for nearly finishing your long-distance studies. I’ve done it before for some qualifications and sometimes it can be tough. Wish I could do it again for a degree, but all long-distance degrees are deemed invalid in the country I’m living in. So it would be a waste if I stay here.
What field are you moving into, if you don’t mind me asking (or telling everyone)?
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Iris,
I.T. It’s solitary work which can be done from home. Now companies give you a laptop, which is encoded, a phone and your supervisor is available via chat rooms for troubleshooting.
I.T. can be done with paychecks, computer issues or anything the mind can think of. I’m going to love the solitude of it all. No more co-workers watching when I come in, no more tall tales of he said/she said….
No more politics, supervisors with an axe to grind and no more doctors with God-complexes.
I’m exhausted from the constant battle. And being the only black person…well, need I say more?
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Abagond, I e-mailed you about some concerns I have with comments.
Did you get it ?
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@ Phoebe
I answered your email.
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Abagond,
can you make a seperate part 2 post of the ‘Should George Zimmerman be arrested’
This post is too saturated and I can hardly open the link. Don’t know if other people are having the same issue.
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@ Linda
I got in just fine. Try again.
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latest case of book cover whitewashing
http://www.racebending.com/v4/blog/the-immortal-rules-book-cover-whitewashed-film-follow/
immortal rules is about a Japanese girl who turned into a vampire the publishes put a white woman’s picture on the cover and the author herself is Japanese American
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@ angloamericanwatchdog2000
Thank you for sharing that information. I have not read the book but it looks to be pretty good. Disappoint in the whitewashing though. Just read about some of the uproar with hunger games. Seems more than one person of color is just too much.
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@ Truthbetold
Sounds fantastic. I’m sure you’ll be happy finally having room to breathe and relax again. 🙂
You’ve said it all! LOL
@ Everyone
How do you feel about people who are mostly White writing about POC since they have a POC in their ancestry? Especially when that POC is further back than the author’s grandparents, meaning the author themselves can easily identify as 100% White?
e.g. Lisa See, whose great-grandfather was Chinese, writes solely about Chinese women. She looks completely White, but apparently she grew up within Chinese-American culture.
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@Iris
If they want to write about their personal narrative then nothing wrong with that. I would only raise an eyebrow if they wrote as an authority on the POC side of their ancestry. It would be troubling to me but unless I was apart of the POC group being discussed then it is none of my business. The POC group that is a part of his/her ancestry can help to guide the person to being informed if they are not. Just as long as they still have cultural connection and influences (like POC relatives) then it is safe to say that they are writing from experience rather than stereotype.
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@ everyone
The Zimmerman thread, all of them, is too mentally draining for me. Every chance these racists get, they jump on the bandwagon to spit at a dead boy…yet they deny all claims of racism. Look at how long the thread has gotten…it’s one of the longest ones here. All with “facts” on why this kid deserved to die.
Am I this only person here who is exhausted from it all? This disease is so ingrained, it’s suffocating. I used to wonder how whites could carry around this hate for us…aren’t they tired? But then I realized that no, they’re not tired, ever. Hate becomes their oxygen.
The minute Abagond posted it, Miguel went beserk. He visited my blog, many, many times…I banned him from commenting…to spew his shit all over the place. In fact, I’m going to expose him next week for the person he really his.
Sometimes, I wish we could just start over..from scratch..build a city where it’s just us. The poison spreads like cancer so I walk around with this feeling all day thinking about how my own men could be wiped off the earth by another man’s bullet. Not even a cop, but an ordinary person who has an axe to grind.
I’m tired.
And I won’t post anymore responses on the Zimmerman/Martin thread as long as they are there.
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What do you guys think of this?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/may/24/tel-aviv-protest-violence-immigration
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I’d like to see a story on the private prison industry. To me, this seems like modern day slavery. These prisons get paid by the head, then “rent” that manpower to assorted corporations to provide any number of products or services for them. In order to keep that gravy train running, they lobby for harsher sentences, more draconian laws, and the increased criminalization of things like immigration status, homelessness, poverty, and even debt. When you consider how many people this has the potential to affect — especially young black and brown men (and, increasingly, women) — I think it’s something to be alarmed about, and certainly worthy of more discussion.
I’ve recently seen a few stories on the Interwebz which described some sort of Bilderbergesque secret meeting that happened sometime in the 90s. It was attended by some entertainment industry powerhouses, along with some finance types and representatives of the “prison industrial complex.” Supposedly this meeting was about marketing strategy…using entertainment vehicles as a sort of “recruitment” tool for these prisons. Outlandish, right?
But when you think about how a privatized prison works — how it turns a profit, its strategies for growth — it makes you wonder. What exactly is their output? Where, exactly, do they get the resources to create that output? What’s their long term strategic plan? These are questions that all businesses must grapple with, so it stands to reason it must be true for a prison “business,” as well.
Furthermore, when you consider that some of the major “institutional” investors in these prisons are companies like GE and Wells Fargo, you really have to scratch your head. Wells Fargo derives a great deal of its money by financing, insuring, providing bonds and loans and other services to studios and other businesses within the entertainment industry. And GE…well, GE owns NBC/Universal, which controls just about every entertainment company there is — including, at one point, Universal Music, which is MCA/Motown/Polygram/Polydor, Def Jam, Interscope, Island, Mercury, and EMI, among others.
Normally, I’m not one to wear tin-foil hats, but that certainly is “coincidental.” Makes me raise my eyebrows a little…
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@truthbetold
I wish there was something that I could do or say to ease your pain. Those posts are nonsense and in my opinion meant to mentally break you down. The viciousness, frequency and lack of common sense is what gives me that conclusion. You shouldn’t have to keep defending or trying to prove yourself or your facts. I agree that it is exhausting…but I am sure that my reasons in no way compare to yours. I know you don’t know me…but I will continue commenting on those blogs. You have been an inspiration to me this week and I cannot let those racist ingrates get away with wearing you, or anyone for that matter, down. I agree..Hate IS their oxygen…but I will do my best to suffocate them!
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Hmmm…. wondering whether to post or not, I guess here goes, well I honestly have no idea how I originally found this blog, but it was sometime after my –yeah black — girlfriend died in my apartment last year, and I don’t know abagond right about then was going on about white men who like black women even though they had previously had white children, and well, honestly up until recently I had been living in Reading, PA, allegedly the poorest city in the US, and some kind of way I found myself 100% involved with the black community.
And there was some type of acceptance there, and I mean that.
I will say I did live in Los Angeles for a few years when I went to college, and my first IR relationship was there, and I guess it kind of sat in the back burner in my brain so to speak.
I would like to say I am feeling some type of way @truthbetold’s anger and pain, I see that it is real and I am powerless to do anything about it. What can I say.
Deviance, addiction, all that, I have seen it all and certainly it is not relegated to one side of any particular fence of categorization. I don’t see myself dating white women really ever, I am attracted to black women, and that is all, am I coming in 5×5?
So as I am in recovery from a variety of things, I am trying to separate what I feel from the ghetto bullshit that I participated in with full effect, and I come here to learn and listen. And I take shit, a lot of it, from family and ‘friends’ or well lets say most white people I encounter who only date within the race. What are you gonna do?
Thanks.
-tc
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@ truthbetold
I respect your decision, but remember people like Miguel “the fail” live on lies. This is how they sleep at night. If they even do that much.
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Guys,
Watch this.. subtitiles begin at 48 seconds… Whoever think jews aren’t white, watch this… This happened at a race riot in tel aviv this past week…
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=gOomBSTTzrU)
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TRUE BLOOD premieres in a week or so *fangirl scream* 😀 😀
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@deedee77
*fangirl scream* I am excited too!!!!! 😀
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*fangirl scream*
Oh Lawd, lol
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@pheobeprunelle
oh come on! lol You know you want to do it too! lol 😀
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@v8driver
“I would like to say I am feeling some type of way @truthbetold’s anger and pain, I see that it is real and I am powerless to do anything about it. What can I say.”
You are not powerless. That is the most common misconception…and why so many people continue to get hurt and feel as though white people don’t care. Use your voice and stick with it no matter how hard it is and how pointless it seems. Racist are trying to wear you down and it makes them feel like they have the upper hand when you feel powerless.
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Abagond has talks about social bias in beauty standards a number of times on this blog. Here’s the latest example form Victoria’s Secret: http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2012/05/27/sexy-according-to-victorias-secret
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@ Abagond
Any progress on the New York Burning review … ?
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@ Truthbetold,
Congratulations on your amazing accomplishment being able to decide your path instead of getting stuck in it – this is something many people struggle with and often lose. I think that you are on the right path to your personal bliss !! :):):):)
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@SW6
Sexy: when someone stirs something primal in you!
Morris Chestnuts lips,
My husband with his newly shorn hair
Men who smell nice i.e. I Lurve Joop
Eyes – men who look at you with a penetrating look, almost as though they are undressing you, but not in a sleazy way but in a way that says they like what they see and they definately want to see more. A look that in itself tells you that they think you are sexy as hell and that they appreciate this.
I’m making a poor job of describing this but, some guys can make the ‘Look’ an art form and make you weak at the knees and cause your heart to palpitate and for you to feel tingly all at the same time.
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For anyone that likes classic 50s Black doo wop:
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Shoot….haven’t posted in so long i forgot to put the brackets! =?/
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In case anybody wants to play escape from slavery in the US…
http://www.mission-us.org/pages/mission-2
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To the black commenters:
A serious question…How would you achieve segregation? I mean the real kind, similar to what you see in Atlanta, but more secluded like the Jews. I’m thinking about this…a lot…and I need ideas.
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@ Truthbetold,
I don’t think segregation will solve the problem… I think the most important thing is education and people of colour knowing there is a problem. Knowing about the white lense, about how media subtly manipulates e.g. by misrepresenting us, how academia does the same thing etc. Plus also knowing that the solution(self-determination) has to come from within… Then I don’t think it matters much if one interacts with white people or not, as long as you can spot when they try and manipulate or deceive…
You know that’s one advantage the african diaspora has over many in africa who rarely ever interact with white people directly… The diaspora can get an up close lesson on “whiteness” as you call it.
It’s important because they aren’t going anywhere and so it’s better if you learn about them and there methods lest you be caught in ignorance and obliterated.
If the native americans, incas, or hawaiians knew what was coming to greet them, they wouldn’t have been sooo generous in their welcome hospitality.. They lacked knowledge, knowledge is only got through experience, segregation negates experience.
Or so I think.
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@ SW6
Atlanta is amazing. I went there on assignment and never knew a world like that existed. Business after business, home after home. And…banks, barbershops, law firms, doctors…even private schools!
I was shocked. Not even parts of middle class Milwaukee has that.
And contrary to the media, crime was mostly delegated to the poor/working class whites over in the next town. This gave me confirmation that black middle-upperclass was NOTHING like what they want us to believe it is.
@ Wilson
I’d like to give it the old college try.
I need to escape to a safer place…where I can feel as if I’m not a visible minority that needs surveillance.
We’re thinking about buying more farm land but finding a place where it’s just us is damn hard in PA. Knowledge helps, a lot. I’ve been officially un-blinded but the feelings remain. My cousin is in Hanover as we speak and he’s made some serious comments about never coming back. I don’t know…maybe one day, we’ll join them.
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@SW6
Said ‘Demerera – sexy post’!
*Blushes*
How bout you?
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Hey,
Anyone hear of Hipster Racism? Well look no further…
http://jezebel.com/5905291/a-complete-guide-to-hipster-racism
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@Demerera
Yes, I heard about it. Posted the exact same link earlier…Interesting isn’t it. i wonder if abagond has a “Evolution of Racism” sort of post yet.
abagond.wordpress.com/open-thread-2/#comment-126289
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@deedee7789
Apologies – I obviously missed it. Yes, it might be good to look at how racism has ‘evolved’ so to speak, particularly when I look at some of the comments on here and see that some commenters think it is all in the mind and that black people are holding themselves back still!!
They dont seem to want to understand that it has merely been ‘repackaged’ and ‘re-branded’ depending on where in the world you are from. What is frustrating for these people who insist on being stuck in a time warp is that they are being ‘called out’ on this and that other white people are sometimes enlightened too – enough for them to say to their fellow white person ‘thats not right/good/cool’ which infuriates them so, they have to try different ‘tacts’, just like people like old Doug who instead of cussing down openly, hid behind the thin veneer of ‘superior’ intelligence instead….. that is until they meet their match and then, you merely need to scratch gently beneath the surface and all the toxins come rushing out…
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You need an ideology. By that, I mean the set of ideas that constitute one’s goals, expectations, and actions. You then encapsulate that ideology in a grand narrative
For example:
And the most famous secular version:
It should be fairly obvious to all that black people , in the last 80 years, have failed to come up with an ideology that is compelling, logically coherent, and achievable /a>
In the last 50 or so years, the main unit for the production of ideologies is the think-tank. If you look at organizations such as the Heritage Foundation, American Enterprise Institute etc. you’ll realize that every right-wing talking point for the last 40 years has come from them. Where are the black version of those?
The important thing to remember is that ideologies are top down – never bottom up. Social media and Occupy -style movements don’t work. It is always a group of highly motivated, highly intelligent individuals who find each other, and put themselves in a place to influence people and policy. Nothing more, nothimg less.
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@ Satan
Then shall we get to work?
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That would go against everything I stand for. I must do everything in my capacity to make sure that black men achieve their ultimate goal, salvation and destiny – the white woman in his bed and the black ‘woman ‘ under his boot heel. One God , one aim, one destiny!!!!
Yeah, I’m just playing with you. I had made some posts on your siite Saturday, but wordpress screwed them up and erased them. I’ll post them again later.
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@ Satan..Ok. I like your blog but what’s with all the babes?
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@ Abagond,
Just wondering: is the New York Burning post coming down the pipe or are you too busy for it? If so i would like to make another request that might take less time.. Could you post on the differences between white bigots, white implicit racists, and whites with integrity? It would be interesting to read your take on the different types, the frequency with which each occur and maybe a prescription how each can be recognized and/or addressed.
Cheers,
JT
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@ JT
New York Burning is still in the pipeline but the way things are going probably will not appear till late June. In the meantime I will post on your suggestion or something along those lines.
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@ Bulanik
It is a book about a slave uprising in Manhattan in 1741.
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@Bulanik
This is my first time hearing about it too. There is a amazon book with information.
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@ Abagond,
Cool. Looking forward to it.
Cheers,
JT
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Why did you think I first came here? To read about the Arab trader argument? No , I came to look at half naked white women, Sophia Loren and Dakore, oh lovely Dakore Egbusen. That is because the Internet is not for learning, but for porn.
But why did you think I stayed? Because Abagond does in 500 words what I can only hope to do with 5000. Get them with naked chicks. Keep them with content.
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I have a question for married and singles alike:
Is it possible to develop an attraction for the opposite sex online, even though you don’t post pictures?
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@ Satanforce
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh…………thanks for clearing that up!
@ B.R.
Perhaps you’ll like this:
http://diaryofanegress.com/2012/06/01/rap-hip-hop-and-all-that-jazz/
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@ phoebe
Yes. Emotional connection can be very alluring. Especially if you like the same things.
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I really liked this doc and article about black women transitioning to natural hair.
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@Truth,
Ok. Thanks. Which is why i am trying to convince a certain man in my life that an emotional affair is way more threatening than a purely sexual one. Lolz!
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I have a question about something that I am not sure if my feelings are right or wrong…
Last night after giving my kids Mc D’s for dinner…they immediately started singing “Afro Circus Afro Circus” It sounded inappropriate to me so asked them where they heard that from and they said Madagascar movie. I told them to not sing it because it did not sound right. So here is might question…
Am I wrong for thinking that it is something offensive?
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*my
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^I would say no Michelle.
Afro circus doesn’t sound like anything other than a circus that features African perfomers.
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@phoebeprunelle
Thank you for replying 🙂
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For all you statistics freaks out there.
My sister just graduated high school with “Honors”
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@Sharina
lmbo…but seriously that is awesome! 🙂
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@ Michelle
LOL. I had to do it. They love pulling out those stats that claim blacks are dumb or as they say (official voice) “less smart than whites.” 🙂
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Hiya
Does Jubilee ‘Fever’ even scratch the surface in the U.S?
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@Demerera
I looked up Jubilee Fever and this is my reaction..-_-..not impressed. But there might be some that are interested. I still don’t understand why a prince and princess getting married was news in the US. So seeing the queen on a boat and many other boats sounds like blah blah boring…ZZzzzZz.
@Sharina
Gratz to your little sister.
The new banner is..different O.o
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Hey Deedee
LOL at your honesty. It is to commemorate 50 years of a Monarchs reign. I remember the Silver Jubilee (a teeny bit, I was at pre-school) and as I have children now, it has a tiny place in my heart.
I appreciate though why it may not have any meaning for others 🙂
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http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/06/01/accused-killer-luka-rocco-magnotta-linked-to-far-right-u-s-white-supremacists-in-message-board-posts/
Who said Canadians were boring? This loon decapitated, dismembered, and defiled the remains of a man, after stabbing him multiple times with a ice pick. Interpol is looking for him as he is thought to have fled to France (the French are weirdos!). Oh yeah, he is a self proclaimed ‘white supremacist’, his favourite site to ‘vent’, Stormfront. After dismembering the body, he sent the body parts via the mail, to various head quarters of political parties along with obscene messages. I am beginning to think these white supremacist clowns more closely resemble this fool.
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@Herneith
Isn’t that the guy that killed someone on film? Starting with kittens is always a bad sign and he openly mentioned he would move on to people. Wow just read another article and it was his boyfriend who was a foreign exchange student that he killed on film. And this guy possibly..eats people..White Supremacy groups may need to reconsider if they want that man to be associated with them.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2153370/Revealed-Victim-Canadian-porn-star-cannibal-Chinese-gay-lover-police-reveal-murderer-run-France–dressed-woman.html
On another note. I didn’t know such a handsome guy was in the original alien suit. http://www.racialicious.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Bolaji-Bedejo-by-Eve-Arnold.png
Bolaji Badejo, I thought it was just special effects or a machine. Racialicous has the article.
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One of the first songs I ever remember…
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7g6_n7AW8g)
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I have a silly question:
How do I put stuff into quotes?
How do I bold words?
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What is going on?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/24/asexual-mao-sugiyama-cooks-serves-own-genitals_n_1543307.html#s=1018957
Are people going crazy?
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@wilson
I just puked in my mouth! Ewwwww
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@wilson
“
” for quotes except without quotes
EXAMPLE:
“test here”
EXAMPLE:
‘Ello Governor
Also, i’m more surprised that people paid for and ATE that man’s private place >< .
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Hm let me try again
blockquote /blockquote
b /b
except make sure to have this around the tags
EXAMPLE
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http://www.w3schools.com/tags/tag_blockquote.asp <-quote
http://www.w3schools.com/tags/tag_font_style.asp <
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“this is a test, hope it works”
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Test,
WWF’s goal is to:
.
We hope they succeed.
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Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees!!!
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Wut!!??? (shakes head)
Which island is this? I would leave to live on an island where mangoes grow in the same season as yams and tomatoes!!
Someone is wrong on the Internet. I must stop them.
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@ Bulanik
That sculpture is sobering. I wonder how many lives it memorializes. Thank you for posting.
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any black person with naturally nappy hair who gets insulted when their hair is referred to as nappy is self-hating. nappy is the texture. it just means “frizzy”. it’s like saying the hair is kinky or coily. and it’s stupid when people try to say it like it’s an insult, when it’s no more an insult than saying someone’s hair is straight or curly.
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Really nice, Bulanik
That is about as powerful example Ive seen of how the Arab melodic concepts and some of the Arab instruments on the bandstand , are mixed with some of the dance concepts and 6/8 you might find in a tribe from Mali, or Kenya
For sure the cultures from that area, do reflect the Arab influence and also maybe some migrations back into Africa from an earliar date
…its amazing how you can listen to a music from a culture and be able to hear the differant influences and origins
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Truthbetold, sorry, I just saw the link you reccomended for me, I havent seen it yet but I will…I only check on open thread every week or so, because the thread has gotten so big that my computor buffers it up a really long time
Ill check it out and let you know, I like hip hop so Im curious
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Btw, I was listening to some of my fave music from Sudan the other day, and thought you might like this. It features Abdel Gadir Salim, a fab musician from Kordofan. Here he is performing one of his well-known songs at a wedding..
(Kordofan is west Sudan – neighbouring Darfur.)
”
”
@ Bulanik,
You know my taste!! *goes searching for more Abdel Gadir Salim* Thank you! =)
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Truthbetold…great thread you did there on your blog
I liked your trip to Chicago and talking directly with an artist there
Many of the things you are addressing are true in the music business
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I am not in a place right now where I can study this, and personally it give me a headache but this popped on the old radar today.
DISCLAIMER: I do not propose the accuracy or data-worthiness of this all I am interested to see if anyone can make heads or tails of this.
http://www.scirp.org/journal/PaperInformation.aspx?paperID=19566
http://cofcc.org/2012/06/russian-geneticists-disprove-out-of-africa-claim/
http://www.familytreedna.com/publicwebsite.aspx?vgroup=African.DNAProject§ion=yresults
-tc
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@v8driver
Haplotypes = Allelles = Genes.
The articles are just mentioning that there is dna in remains that are older than what were found in Africa in places in central Asia (excuse me I mean central “Europe”). They are trying to use those remains as a means of disproving the “Out of Africa” theory that modern humans oldest ancestors were out of Africa and migrated out to the rest of the world. I will wait on this because these sort of “discoveries” have at times been proven to be faked. But I will personally say that I am not 100% certain that all modern humans descend from a common source in what is called Africa.
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@deedee7789
Thanks, I guess if you are going to talk about statistics, that DNA stuff is a place to start, not what some of these trolls are all about with FBI stats etc.
-tc
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Is this racist?
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohmoFa7nSCU&feature=related)
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I use youtube for meditation purposes as well as entertainment purposes. This Zen Garden meditation works well when i need some time of peace, security and tranquility. I think missing this aspect in my life can contribute to an overall sense of imbalance.
I hope that someone tries breathing deeply to this and taking a mental break from the constant barrage of craziness.
=)
JT
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I need some help with this nutcase featured here:
http://brothawolf.wordpress.com/2012/06/04/the-racist-european/
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abagond
Are you really going to censor the “Open Thread”? For real?
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so good!!! ———————> Stir it up (live) – Bob Marley.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6U-TGahwvs)
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http://www.windsorstar.com/With+Windsor+police+probe+video+officer+punching+kicking/6740388/story.html
Another case of white police brutality caught on tape in Windsor, ontario. Const. kent rice spends 4 minutes pushing, hitting, kicking and intimidating a young Black male in his own building complex. Thankfully the cop has been suspended. Ridiculously, he is still on payroll.
I say CAN his @$$ and proceed with an investigation to see how many other Black women and men whose rights he violated that WERENT caught on camera. Police too need to know that they belong nowhere near the police force if they bring these sorts of racial animus to the force and they will be fully held to account for abuse of their authority.
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Question: Have anyone ever come into contact with a racist Christian?
I am a Christian. They are much harder to reason with because they actually believe that Bible supports their claims. Look at this website. It’s disgusting!
http://www.landoverbaptist.net/showthread.php?t=55295
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Interesting (short) read on the importance of narrative in post-colonial struggles:
“How Gabriel Garcia Marquez Brought Down Samuel Zemurray, the Banana King”
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/06/07/how-gabriel-garcia-marquez-brought-down-samuel-zemurray-the-banana-king.html
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Cleonette,
Given that racism is condoned (and even mandated) in several parts of the bible, one should not be surprised to find racist Christians.
FYI: your link points to a well-known parody site designed to mock theism by demonstrating how biblical morality would be considered anathema to modern western sensibilities were it faithfully followed today.
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@ Cleonette
One of the worst things in the world is when you use God as an excuse for hatred. We stopped going to church…my mom says there are 2 types of people in church:
1. Those that believe in the word
2. Those that come for “other reasons”
I’m not suprised at all that this is up there for the world to see. Racism is a disease.
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@Cleonette
Yes. Bigots as well. I become atheist at 12 because of it.
There are some articles that gave me a slight headache:
1)16-year-old young girl viciously abused by boyfriend for over a month, her body as if cut by a thousand knives
2)Man impregnates mother twice
The one concerning the abused girl by her 29 year old boyfriend is more so because of some comments. I can’t understand how the young girl “deserved” having a back almost without skin and 1,000 infected cuts. So what if she didn’t leave after the first hit, that does not give that man the right to abuse her. Most comments were more supportive of the girl at least.
Concerning the son impregnating his biological mom a second time. The entire situation just..ugh. The father was sick and they felt that was a good time to do something like that (although no time is the right time imho).
It makes me wonder about domestic abuse and how a woman is mostly to be killed/abused in the home by a spouse/boyfriend then a stranger. Why is that?
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@abagond, my comment in moderation. Please delete it. I found the thread to post it in
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@ Randy
I know its a parody site but people really do feel like this and believe this. It’s not so funny for some people. I took a social science class and one of my fellow classmates did a research paper.
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@ truthbetold
Your mother was extremely right. Most people I saw going to church when I was young was there for nothing more than appearance. They were afraid people would talk. Heck my church member declared me a Satan worshiper and said I did not believe in God because I felt it was a church of hypocrites. They chastised one female for getting pregnant and not being married, but one girl(whose family is well known in the church) did not get the same treatment when she had a child out of wedlock and another with her cousin. They actually kept trying to convince everyone that he was not her cousin and then she had the nerve to go around telling people I was lying about the cousin thing out of my jealousy of her. Turned out it was the guys side of the family that was talking about how they do not condone it and it is disgusting because they are cousins.
I did end up becoming a Mormon and have had a much better group experience altogether. I only have had one woman that was a down right nasty racist hypocrite, but she tried so hard to prove she was not. My mother-in-law can not stand that woman and eventually she moved after her mother died.
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@ deedee7789
I know where you are coming from with that one.
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http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ab8_1339159901
“Robber flees after customer kicks knife out of hand” vid
…XD..Robbery fail.
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I really would like one of those Afro-sponges, they look really cool.
@SW6
That video..is amazing. That couple needs an award for not taking crap from robbers.
@wilson
I don’t find it racist. Boring and poorly done but not racist.
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I was wondering if the amount of trolls on here as increased or decreased over the years since abagond created this blog?
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Question:
Is it annoying when whites appreciate or enjoy black culture, thought, sound, history etc.?
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@ JT
No, not to me. I find it quite interesting when a person takes the time out to want to learn something other than there own cultures, thoughts, etc. In my book it shows a very intellectual person.
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@JT
May I ask…is it annoying to you?
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@ Michelle,
I think it depends but I am not Black so its not necessarily a question that i need to answer (unless you really want me to).
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@ Sharina,
But don’t you think that whites sometimes try to appropriate things from Black culture? Isn’t that a form of imperialism?
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I ask because I am genuinely curious if there is an occasion wherein it can be agreed upon that white people should not try and sort of take on Black subjects or cultural matter – that they should just keep their nose out, so-to-speak.
I can think of one time, on Abagond’s blog when it became obvious that that was the case: ‘The first experience of racism thread’. Are there other cases when white people should just butt out? I think it would be beneficial for people to know if there is because i think that if they knew how their experience treads on others experiences they might be more aware about how people feel that aren’t themselves (we are in a very narcisstic society, in my personal belief).
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@JT
I wasn’t assuming you were black…I just wanted your opinion because you asked the question. I was wondering if you raised the question because you might feel that way…or you might have been white and you were wondering how commenters on here perceived white people commenting. You don’t have to answer if you don’t want to. I was just curious.
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@JT
I can think of one time, on Abagond’s blog when it became obvious that that was the case: ‘The first experience of racism thread’. Are there other cases when white people should just butt out?
Clearly I cant speak for Abagond but, my understanding, certainly in the case of that thread, is that there was the concern that certain commenters could have come on there and tried to undermine/derail the comments made by commenters. It was also a place where PoC could discuss common issues/situations/experiences without having to ‘tailor’ this for white commenters. I guess by the very fact that it was talking about the black/PoC’s experience of racism from white by its very definition excludes whites from being able to comment in this instance….
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@ Michelle,
That’s fair. I am really not against saying what I think on the subject. I just hope not to be the only one that does (besides Sharina who has already shared her POV).
For me personally, I find that there are people who patronize Black people, culture, history, etc. They might travel to the Caribbean for a vacation and are superficially nice or try to learn what they think Caribbean culture is like as long as they are on the vacation. Or like in African safaris for example and meeting people along the way in the resort but then turn away from it when the safari is over. I don’t think that they necessarily respect the culture but they may show a sort of interest or curiosity for it without actually seeing it as equally valuable and wanting to know more.
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Clearly I cant speak for Abagond but, my understanding, certainly in the case of that thread, is that there was the concern that certain commenters could have come on there and tried to undermine/derail the comments made by commenters. It was also a place where PoC could discuss common issues/situations/experiences without having to ‘tailor’ this for white commenters. I guess by the very fact that it was talking about the black/PoC’s experience of racism from white by its very definition excludes whites from being able to comment in this instance….
“”
Okay, but do you think there are other circumstances in real life or on this blog when that should happen?
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@ Jt
If it is done in a respectful manner then I see nothing wrong with appropriating things from black culture. The problem is a lot of people don’t do it in a respectful manner and that leads to the issue.
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@JT
There was a film with the actor Kal Penn in it and there was an interesting scene. Kal Penn’s father had just died and he was using his traditional culture to mourn. His girlfriend, who happened to be white, was ready for him to “move on” and come visit her family and spend time with her. He broke up with her. It goes along with the first experience thread in a way. Some cultural activities, especially dealing with family can be something that whites are excluded from unless they are culturally aware and an active participant rather than an observer.
Also, someone taking elements from another culture and claiming as there on is stealing (example European fashion designers used African patterns designs but no mention of the country of origin). That is wrong and acknowledgment of the source is appropriate. Then there is the scary obsessive part of being interested in a culture that is founded in stereotypes that is wrong. Learning, understanding, doing = okay. Living, breathing,wanting to become the other culture..not okay ><.
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@JT
I am white and i feel that there has been other white people on here that really should not be posting because they only troll to spew hatred and not listen and learn. For the most part my opinions and comments have appeared to be accepted and in some occasions appreciated. I also have had a few that were not so welcoming…but it did not deter me because I don’t feel they represented everyone on here. If it is something that I feel may be out of place for me to comment I try to be respectful and ask that they let me know if I should butt out. I have only found one instance so far that I have had to ask because it was a personal struggle with an individual. From what I have seen…abagond will let white people know when it not for us to comment.
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Thanks, Bulanik.
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@JT
Okay, but do you think there are other circumstances in real life or on this blog when that should happen?
Yes there probably are however, you have to balance that with evaluating whether the persons intentions are to be superior over an individual and undermine them not having lived as part of that culture or, whether they have a real appreciation, a reverence almost for the culture or aspect of ethnicity they are commenting on.
Like you – you like some ska music etc and your knowledge and appreciation of this has most likely been through a different route to the one that has led me to like this genre of music. It is from the ‘black’ culture but music is for everyone – I wouldn’t find your knowledge any less valid than mine.
B.R is in to Jazz and certainly knows more about it than me. He is married to a PoC and as a result has seen/experienced many things but, I certainly would not expect him to feel he knew more about being a PoC than I do despite his close ties and affiliations with PoC (Sorry BR, hope you dont mind me using you to demonstrate this example to JT 🙂 )
Does that make sense JT? Put it this way, if I felt that someone was behaving in an obnoxious way and trying to ‘tell me about myself’ I would quickly and succinctly put them in their place.
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@ deedee7789,
So a white woman who leads an African drum circle, garbed in traditional Ghanese jewellery, at an African music festival in a public park. Would that constitute a person DOING or obsessively trying to BECOME? If she is in the belief that her actions are respectful does that make it so?
@ Demerera,
That does make sense. Thank you. I sometimes wonder whether white people should just learn to respect what comes from other PoC culture before making it their interest/hobby. Otherwise it almost becomes another item for their consumption instead of something of rich background, tradition, thought etc. that is independent of the white person. But maybe this is too distanced from reality to ever happen.
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@ JT
I no longer keep any company with whites…at all. No friends, no phone calls, I don’t even speak to my neighbours any more.
To be frank, and I always am, Whites are not interested in un-learning, un-doing a damn thing. Education about the black culture/ experience becomes a fascination, a hobby, a sport…and it always ends up getting skewered, mocked or misunderstood.
I’m done. I am not a zoo creature to be studied and questioned. I not the spokesperson for Africa/ blacks/ islanders/ brits/ mulattoes. I find it patronizing and exhausting. And further, whites suck the life energy out of me. After dealing with them I need a protein meal and a nap.
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@ truthbetold,
I get the feeling that you are not alone in your experience nor conclusion. I can only try to imagine, but people must get tired of having to meet whites where they are comfortable and not say anything to affect their sensitivities. It sounds like in some instances the almost more desirable option is to not keep company at all, like you say.
Thanks for being candid. =)
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@JT
Depends on intent.
Ex 1) When Non Native Participation in Powwows Goes Terribly Wrong
Those young women were being spectators not culturally aware participants. Those girls made a mockery of the event.
EX 2) Charleze Theron
Then there is Charleze Theron. She can speak the native language of Azania (South Africa), interacted with the people there and doesn’t have a sense of superiority and respects the culture. If she were to wear traditional clothes and what not she would have an understanding of the history and culture rather than just going to say she did it before.
OBSESSIVE = getting involved in a culture for reasons that aren’t genuine. ERGO. Some of the kpop scary fangirls (><) "OMG Bi is my oppa I love him i will go to Korea and learn korean to get a Korean man". That is bad. They are learning the culture for a man and not just because they respect the culture and want to learn it better.
If your drummer in the example isn't genuinely invested in learning the culture for all the right reasons then yes she is wrong.
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I would like to see a post on the Korean monopoly of black beauty supply stores. Until the 1960’s it was black owned, but then the American government started giving grants to Koreans to undermine black business.And it worked. Today Koreans use racist methods to eliminate competition from blacks hair business.
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@ deedee7789,
Thank you for that link. It is quite compelling read/enlightening. I need to let my thoughts stew on this subject but I am thinking of a reply to your point & examples.
Cheers,
JT
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GJ
You are not the first person I’ve heard say that.
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Openthread is so hard for me to enter , Ill be gone from my computor for a few weeks also , in a couple of days, so, I better get this in now.
I agree, Deedee, it depends on the depth that that woman has invested and the affinity with the culture and understanding. There is no customs entry stamp to apreciete and learn another culture. Exploitation is another story
No problem, Demerera, I co sign.
Just to elaborate on my story, it was more than music, my social existance in high school was in the black comunity. I was humbly accepted into the black social scene where I grew up.
And,I very much understand there are many situations that dont include me or that isnt my experiance to understand in the same way as someone who is actualy black and has to negociete their way through USA racist mindfeilds ( or anywhere else in the world that racism exists)
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JT wrote:
Allow me to illustrate the bigotry contained in this question by rephrasing it in a way that you may be more likely to appreciate:
[Posed to a white person]
“Is it annoying when blacks appreciate or enjoy white culture, thought, sound, history etc.?”
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@Randy
Allow me to illustrate the bigotry contained in this question by rephrasing it in a way that you may be more likely to appreciate:
[Posed to a white person]
“Is it annoying when blacks appreciate or enjoy white culture, thought, sound, history etc.?”
Perhaps JT is more coming from the angle where some WP like to think they know more about BP than they do themselves? This is certainly how I took it hence my response.
How many times have we seen this on this very blog where people like Doug for example questioned black intelligence and when challenged and shown evidence to the contrary, refused to take it on board. Unfortunately, it is not only the Doug’s of this world who hold steadfast to their so called ‘unshakeable’ ‘knowledge’ of black people and cultures etc through encyclopaedia’s etc.
BTW, I think that most ‘race realists’ would actually prefer that BP enjoy white culture, thought, sound, history etc – there are more than a few comments from commenters on here where they state that BP’s refusal to assimilate is one of the main issues regarding racism still…..
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Demerera wrote:
I think that’s a reasonable point.
I would argue though that the subtext behind the question of “our” [music, art, women, men] lurks a double-standard which is ultimately detrimental to race relations, as much as proponents of it would claim to be working in good faith.
Imagine the following two statements:
“I don’t like when people from [x] group date our women.”
“I don’t like when people from [x] group play our music”
Are these racist statements?
I’d offer that for most western audiences the answer to that question depends on the race of the speaker, and therefore presents a clear double-standard.
If a white person makes this statement, they’re almost guaranteed to be labeled a racist and could very likely lose their job, jeopardizing the future for them and their families.
If a non-white person makes this statement, such terrible consequences are not likely to follow.
Until this disparity is resolved, and a common set of societal standards explicitly or implicitly established and fairly applied, racial conflict and resentment will surely persist.
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@Randy
Concerning the two statements examples, doesn’t prestige also play a factor? A well known person or at least televised person is more likely to be called a racist, regardless of race, than a common person. Audience would also play a factor like was the statement said with the x party preset? A very nice comment by you by the way.
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@ Michelle
That is actually a big misconception a majority of Mormons are white, but there are a great deal of other races. The largest majority of Mormons are actually not even in America.
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@Sharina
Sorry for the ignorance to your religion…I hope I am not being offensive. Please let me know if I am. I was wanting to ask if their is a divide or if all POC and White Mormons accept each other? Also…I know this sounds kinda weird…but are their different Mormon beliefs among different races?
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@ Michelle
No, I don’t feel you were being offensive at all.
AT one time there was a great divide in the church between whites and people of color. Joseph Smith died so unexpectedly they did not have time to put forth a worthy leader of the church. This allowed for Brigham young ( a complete racist in my opinion) to claim himself prophet and leader. He stripped blacks of all right to temple or even holding the priest hood, even though Smith left a notice that blacks shall have that. Other people of color had it a bit easier because they were laminites in their eyes and could thus be redeemed.
When a leader came to the church in the 70s and lifted the ban then a lot of racist who had anchored themselves in the church left.
Now today there is no divide that I have seen in regards to color. Heck we baby sit each others kids etc. We are actually like a huge family. Now one big divide I have seen in Mormons lately is the self-righteous vs the not. Mormons in Utah can be extremely self-righteous towards people who are not Mormon. I have met maybe one person in the church I consider to be racist and she tried so hard to hide it but would always fail. She used to always try to imply that my mother in law could not read in church. Of course my mother in law snapped on her after she did it one time to many (The words were blurring for my mother in law due to some injury). I can’t say there are not others, but so far the one’s I have encountered are not that way.
Contrary to believe many Mormons do not favor Romney and it even tells in our scriptures that their will be snakes among us. Many believe that to be Romney.
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@ Michelle
Another thing I want to note in regards to why there is less if any divide in the Mormon church among whites and people of color.
A. Mormons take the scriptures very seriously. If Jesus says to love one another then you will be loved no matter what the skin color is. If Jesus said turn the other cheek and forgive and forget, then you better believe you will be forgiven and it will be forgotten.
B. Mormon’s rely on each other to such a large degree. When we send our children off on a mission they are interacting and relying on all types of people and members of the church. If they are sent to Ghana and they hold prejudice well then they are going to either have to such it up or get over it because they will be his family for 2 years unless sent to some place else in which the process will still be the same.
On a mission they pretty much form bonds with these individuals no matter where they end up or the skin color.
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@Randy
My comment to JTLike you – you like some ska music etc and your knowledge and appreciation of this has most likely been through a different route to the one that has led me to like this genre of music. It is from the ‘black’ culture but music is for everyone – I wouldn’t find your knowledge any less valid than mine.
Randy gave the following examples:-
“I don’t like when people from [x] group date our women.”
“I don’t like when people from [x] group play our music”
Are these racist statements?
Considering my comment above, clearly you can see that this is not my PoV. What do you think Randy – are these racist statments?
If a white person makes this statement, they’re almost guaranteed to be labeled a racist and could very likely lose their job, jeopardizing the future for them and their families.
If a non-white person makes this statement, such terrible consequences are not likely to follow.
Some might even say that WP people invariably dont’ face the same punishments for the murder of a BP, particularly in light of whats been happening of late in the U.S…..Is your comment above based on personal experience or is it examples you have seen in the media?
For as many examples you can give me of racist comments by BP, I could give you many glaring examples of those given out by WP. Sound tit for tat to you? What is the benefit here? Think back Randy to some of the dire consequences BP used to face for so much as looking at a WW. Ok, we are not in that time now thankfully but, your comments above seem to be an attempt to prove something….
Meanwhile, I dont doubt that some people may be deemed to over compensate in the name of ‘political correctness.’
I agree with this part of your statement though:-
Until this disparity is resolved, and a common set of societal standards explicitly or implicitly established and fairly applied, racial conflict and resentment will surely persist.
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@Sharina
Thank you for answering my questions…Sadly I have often stayed away from Mormons…because I always thought they were racist and hypocrites. I apologize for having that stereotype.
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@ michelle
No, need to apologize at all. I thought that about them and I also thought I was going to be second wife to someone before I learned about them. I dated my husband for years before I realized he was one. LOL.
I always say I am blessed to be around the good Mormons because I have heard so many people tell me how bad the Mormons on the west are. Especially the ones in Utah. A lot of good Mormons have actually left the church due to them. I know one of my good friends in the church now says the Mormon’s in Arizona ignored her and acted very stuck up to her. She would say hello to them and they would keep talking and pretend she was not their. Another friend of mine said that the Mormon’s in Utah do not interact with you outside of church. I was shocked because in my area we share diapers, homes, pools, clothes, toys, food, etc. Heck we share everything but husbands and tampons.
Another thing a lot of people don’t know about the Mormon church is that it split after the death of Joseph Smith. It was the group that felt Joseph’s father should be the next leader and blacks should hold all temple blessings and priest hood. The other group was the people who believed that polygamy was the correct way of living.
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@Sharina
“I was shocked because in my area we share diapers, homes, pools, clothes, toys, food, etc. Heck we share everything but husbands and tampons.”
Thank you for giving me a good laugh…I busted out laughing as I read that. I haven’t laughed that hard in a while!!
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@ Michelle
LOL.
In regards to your family search. Try this https://abagond.wordpress.com/2012/05/24/melungeons/
You may have commented on it before but when I found this blog it gave me a massive door opener in my search. I had a hard time finding my grandmother and After doing some history on the Melungeons in my area or rather in my state. I was extremely shocked to find that Scott was a common Melungeon name and my grandmother’s maiden name was Scott. That may seem like a small start to some, but it is more than what I previously had.
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@ Michelle
I can completely understand being guarded. I’m so sorry you have experience such things. It is really hard to let that guard down once it has been put up. It took me joining the church before I let my guard down.
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@Sharina
Holy ish!!! My maiden name, Carter, is a common Melungeon sir name!!
http://sparksgenealogy.net/melungeons.html
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@ Michelle
Cool. See There is a start and hopefully it will get a little easier to find the search you are looking for.
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@Sharina
Thanks so much. I did comment on that blog…but I didn’t see my maiden name so I didn’t pursue…but i should have.
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@ Michelle
No problem at all.
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deedee7789 said:
I think you’re quite right about the level of “prestige” influencing how one’s comments are received and the effects from them, though I might suggest that the level of prestige need not be very high for one to be punished for such statements.
For example, I’d guess that someone who is in a management role at a business larger other than a small one would face repercussions from those types of “our” comments. Also, people who interface with the public, such as school board members or philanthropy leaders, would likely face similar scrutiny.
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Demerera wrote:
In the past, I would have stated conclusively that those are racist statements. Now I’m not so sure.
I’ve come to believe that people have a legitimate claim to feel in-group affinity based on family, clan, tribe, race. I wouldn’t necessarily share those views, but neither would I reflexively condemn them.
Surely these groups have in many cases developed their own shared history and heritage, and who am I to suggest that they shouldn’t value them and wish them preserved.
Perhaps ironically, I might not have even considered such issues had I not married and started a family with someone from another race.
Demerera wrote:
I’m not suggesting that tit-for-tat is a desired outcome, even if true.
My assertion is that the race of the commenter can significantly impact the effects from them, and that a white person would tend to face harsher consequences including social and economic ostracization from expressing those types of views than would a non-white person.
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@Randy
Perhaps ironically, I might not have even considered such issues had I not married and started a family with someone from another race.
Basically, it would always have been a consideration for me in terms of where I live, my diverse ethnic background AND who I married.
I’m not suggesting that tit-for-tat is a desired outcome, even if true.
!
My assertion is that the race of the commenter can significantly impact the effects from them, and that a white person would tend to face harsher consequences including social and economic ostracization from expressing those types of views than would a non-white person.
Well, I guess thats your experience but, perhaps we have to ask why, in the 21st century, there is still the danger that a WP would say something so objectionably racist? We live in a progressive society dont we? I have seen many white commenters on here get fed up with the fact that black commenters keep on harking on about the past. So, why cant WP learn from others who have found themselves in these situations? Why dont people become enlightened and bring themselves up to date and learn what is a respectful and decent way to relate to a fellow human being who happens to be black/PoC?
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Unfairly treated or Justifiably reprimanded???
http://www.christianconcern.com/our-concerns/religious-freedom/christian-gp-found-guilty-of-%E2%80%98malpractice%E2%80%99-for-sharing-his-faith
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@ Randy,
Could i refer you to a construct in social psychology (and i don’t mean this offensively) ‘naive realism’. It will touch on just one of the disdains i have for meritocratic discourse, fallacies of objectivity, and errors of individual rationalism. From a scientific perspective.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Na%C3%AFve_realism
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Demerera,
Consider this example: imagine that Toby Keith says in an interview, “People can do what they want, but I don’t like the idea of my sister with a black guy” and Jay-z says in an interview, “People can do what they want, but I don’t like the idea of my sister with a white guy”.
Will both experience the same repercussions from their statements or is one likely to be dis-invited to appear on Good Morning America while the other receives an introduction like, “Up next, the always outspoken _____ performs his latest hit…”
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@Randy
Consider this example: imagine that Toby Keith says in an interview, “People can do what they want, but I don’t like the idea of my sister with a black guy” and Jay-z says in an interview, “People can do what they want, but I don’t like the idea of my sister with a white guy”.
Will both experience the same repercussions from their statements or is one likely to be dis-invited to appear on Good Morning America while the other receives an introduction like, “Up next, the always outspoken _____ performs his latest hit…”
I didnt know who Toby Keith was so I had to look him up – unfortunately, I cant really comment on this particular example as a result as I dont know anything about him or his background i.e. is he a card carrying member of the KKK or something.
I am sure that your perspective, and therefore your experiences lead you to believe that the penalty is higher for a WP than a BP in terms of racism. My thoughts on this are still what I stated previously.
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JT,
Sorry, but I’m not versed in the pop-psych domains which you reference. Perhaps you might respond to my question in more common language.
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@ Randy:
I think JT means you act like you are ten and take everything at face value. You certainly seem that way to me. But I think it is an act, that deep down you know just as well as I do what the deal in America is.
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abagond,
I do think there are double-standards, and believe that the best way to examine them is through example, as these double-standards are often only superficially hidden.
If that’s what you mean about putting on an “act”, then it’s not meant to deceive. I would argue that most Americans have been socially conditioned to ignore these double-standards and further to pretend that they don’t exist.
“Sunshine is the best disinfectant”, goes the saying.
What would be refreshing and far more honest to hear is for organizations to stop pretending to espouse “equality”, when what they’re really practicing might be more accurately be called, “targeted racism”.
Society can then have a genuine debate as to what extent such bias is legal, prudent, and desirable.
Does anyone here think that a popular black musician would face the same type and degree of social and economic backlash for saying, “I wouldn’t want my sister dating a white guy” as a popular white musician would receive for saying, “I wouldn’t want my sister dating a black guy”?
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Bulanik,
Fair point, although one could argue that more “technical” language serves the noble purpose of more precisely representing one’s meaning.
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@ Randy
I would have to hear a black musician say it first. The big thing is I have yet to hear a black musician say anything racist at all. Even white musicians that have decided to say something racist have not lost their job and in about a year they are back where they started.
The real question should be “why say such a thing when you know what the response will be?” It comes down to thinking it is either ok because they are rich or ok because of skin color.
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9 times out of 10 it has to do with they are rich and can say what they want and not a color issue.
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@ Abagond,
Thanks. I have to add:
@ Randy,
First off: what was your question? I missed it. Sorry.
Second off: Many neurologists, sociologists, cognitive scientists, physiologists, philosophers, psychologists, and onwards, recognize and work with social cognition research – people who predicate their lives on science and/or intellectual integrity – but Randy, professional objectivist doesn’t recognize social cognition research .Hmm. I wonder what I will do with that skepticism. Probably make you give an actual argument, based on research, that ‘naive realism’ is an invalid theoretical construct when understanding top-down processing. Or in other words, how biased you and your very perception of the world are based on structural development or neuroplasticity in your cerebral cortex which is a byproduct of one’s cultural, social, and psychological life events.
Please, do go on.
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Desmond Dekker – Israelites (1968)
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83Y2hv-3UCM)
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JT,
Per request, the original question…
JT wrote:
Allow me to illustrate the bigotry contained in this question by rephrasing it in a way that you may be more likely to appreciate:
[Posed to a white person]
“Is it annoying when blacks appreciate or enjoy white culture, thought, sound, history etc.?”
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Bulanik,
Gorgeous piece. Thanks for sharing!
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@Bulanik and JT…
Wait for me….(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMkMSXl_pzk)
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@ everyone
You know why I gave up conversing with the whites who love this blog? Because talking to them is throwing your energy down the drain. Randy acts all pseudo-intellectual, like a professor who must question the meaning of everything. But I see him for exactly who and what he is.
A bigot.
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true.
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@ cleonette…re: your question about racist Christians. Yes, I’ve encountered a few.
I would say that my in-laws can be classified as racist to some extent. My mother in law is a devout Christian but she has made some very ignorant and somewhat offensive statements. My husband’s sister seems to have this irrational and bizarre fear of ALL Black men just because one Black guy stole her purse back in the late 80’s. Sometimes his parents complain about the evil Muslims/the wetbacks/the Orientals, the blacks, etc…they feel comfortable doing this in front of me because I’m light-skinned, I guess.
Personally, I’m not religious and I simply tolerate their ignorance because I only see them about twice a year. Thankfully, my husband has broken free of their influence and is willing to educate himself on lots of different things.
I have no problem with discussing race/racism or anything related to it with white people or people in general as long as they are respectful about it. But the minute I hear some bullshit, I either try to put them in check or I distance myself from that person.
In the past I would just let certain comments slide, although I would be hot with humiliation and rage inside. Now I’m far less tolerant.
I do have sort of a question/comment for some of the Black people here, though…do you, personally, view people of mixed race as enemies? I hope I didn’t offend anyone. But I’ve noticed that there seem to be a few comments suggesting that biracial/multiracial people are on the same level of the oppressors (racist whites). Do you really feel that way?
Once again, I apologize if I’ve offended anyone.
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@ Randy,
No. It is not the same thing. To my mind, Black culture in Europe, North America, Australia has thrived amongst a consistently irrational, hostile, and violent White population (for the most part).
Deference to the realness and persistence of the Black struggle, in my mind, precedes any sort of ‘enjoyment’ of Black culture. To do otherwise is exploitative and revisionist, whichever way you cut it.
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That last post by JT is among the strangest I’ve ever seen – irrational, unrealistic, and unworkable, just to start with.
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@ Randy
And white culture has not thrived because it was born from white struggle. The core quality of whiteness is that it assimilates non-white social practices, cuisines, rituals, and traditions and reinvents itself constantly while pushing those individuals to which those practices originally belonged to the outskirts of their white society. Assimilate what they wish they could have come up with themselves, villify the individuals they view as non-white and then expel them to the outskirts of their society. Maybe let in a few, just to keep up the pretense that they are publicly egalitarian.
This is white culture. So, to answer your question more formally, ‘no’ i think it would be nearly impossible for Blacks to be annoying when enjoying white culture – since it is impossible to enjoy something that was never ‘white’ to begin with.
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@ joshua,
I always reread my posts. Yes, maybe the language is too broad and doesn’t really make for easy reading (for reasons of grammar, syntax, etc.). That is my style of writing. I don’t conform to stylistic conventions to the chagrin of many of my professors and anyone that might want clarity and conciseness in their reading. I write with run-on sentences; without a clear point; or without linking my thoughts together coherently. I own that.
If you are referring to my points however, that is another matter altogether. In which case, you might find it troublesome to read my posts because you are unable to piece together what I am saying more broadly or you can piece it together and you don’t like my politics. I don’t aim to satisfy everyone with my point of view, as you do not either. However, if you are going to criticize my politics it wouldn’t hurt to forward your own point of view, with a relevant argument to the conversation at hand.
Or maybe you just felt like criticizing what I put forward without putting forward anything yourself. In which case, i have nothing more to say to you.
Cheers,
JT
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Most of us don’t live in a “white culture”. The culture where we live is usually a blend dependent on the demographics of the area in which we live. The culture differences between areas involve dependencies on religion, the military, government, higher education, climate, geography, history, and yes, “race”. It is virtually impossible for someone living in an area with multiple cultures side by side not to live in a blend.
People take and enjoy what they like about another culture, whether that be music, art, sport, food, literature, philosophy, etc. They don’t take what doesn’t appeal to them, thus we get what you are complaining about. Too bad, that’s the free marketplace of ideas. Deference before enjoyment of such things just isn’t a realistic attitude. Individual people are going to look, listen, and adapt what they like to what they do and how they live. That’s simply human nature. What people do as a “race” simply doesn’t enter into it.
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@ joshua,
White culture refers to market system which was forcefully imposed on non-consenting populations. That their home culture was forceably taken from them like Aboriginals language, history, education system, spirituality and the Black languages, history, education system, spirituality when arriving in America and staying in America.
You talk as if what you imagine the human race to think like is what the human race thinks like. Is it beyond your fathoming that people don’t conceptualize one another as objects in the market place, with an approximated supply/demand gauge of materialistic value?
What extent if any would you say you have race consciousness?
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“I do have sort of a question/comment for some of the Black people here, though…do you, personally, view people of mixed race as enemies? I hope I didn’t offend anyone. But I’ve noticed that there seem to be a few comments suggesting that biracial/multiracial people are on the same level of the oppressors (racist whites). Do you really feel that way?”
************
I consider all/most blacks as multiracial or mixed race …. none of which I treat/view as enemies. To do so would be the equivalent of hating myself.
In other words, I don’t regard (any) people by who they are. I generally strive to respond to people according to what they do – how they treat me… and how I wish to be treated.
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@Cinnamondiva
I do have sort of a question/comment for some of the Black people here, though…do you, personally, view people of mixed race as enemies? I hope I didn’t offend anyone. But I’ve noticed that there seem to be a few comments suggesting that biracial/multiracial people are on the same level of the oppressors (racist whites). Do you really feel that way?
I co-sign with Matari’s statement above.^
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(http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ayzwzGB2kXw)
Guante: 10 Responses to the Phrase “Man Up” (Spoken-Word) video.
Question to male commenters : Is it true what the man speaks about in the video?
How society tries to make men believe that being a real man requires suppression of feelings? What sort of impact does that cause? Saw the video on a different blog site (OHN) and just thought…wow.
@Cinnamondiva
Matari’s comment sounds about right :).
@SW6
A NATIVE SAINT!! 😀 😀 . That’s wonderful.
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@ Matari…I appreciate your individual POV, as well as Demerera’s. I guess my question comes from my own experiences (if I can be honest) but also because I’m puzzled when some folks start calling mixed people “tragic mulattos” and “Peola” and basically comparing us to racist whites. Maybe I just see things differently, because that seems to apply to a minority of biracial/multiracial people…I don’t believe most of us are that way. We’re just good, bad, or somewhere in the middle for the most part like most other human beings.
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@ JT
Who here posting right now with the exception of immigrants consented to any of this?
Who said anything about conceptualizing one and other as objects in the marketplace? The PRODUCTS of people are most certainly objects in the marketplace, in whatever form the market exists – even among Africans. It’s unavoidable.
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@ Cinnamondiva
No offense. Being a mixed race Afro-Caribbean woman, I feel no hostility towards any black person. We’re all in the same boat. Our genes are the same, and thank you slavery, we are ALL biracial.
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Happy Father’s day everyone…..
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjGaV3Xk6Q8&feature=relmfu)
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@dave
Happy fathers day to you. Hope you are managing to spend quality time with the fam.
Meanwhile, I have just learned that Rodney King is dead – RIP. Apparently found dead in his swimming pool. Is this being labelled a suspicious death?
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@ Cinnamondiva
In here there has been the occasional mixed person who comes in ranting and raving about how all of us blacks should not be racist. Most of the time (like the racist whites) not having a clue what the post is even talking about and riding on the idea of it must be talking about all whites. There are those the identify with the white side to such an extent that they even have started to use racial slurs towards blacks and boasting about their white genes. The blacks you encounter may have ran across people like this and believe that you may feel or act the same way.
I am very impressed that even after what you have experienced from blacks you still treat each individual as an individual and not make it the “all blacks are that way’ issue.
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@diaryofanegress…where in the Caribbean are you or your parents from? I have family in Jamaica.
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@ Sharina…I wonder how many of the nasty commenters who claim to be biracial actually are, though? This is the Internet and we can’t really see who people are. Some of them could be white or they could be trolls of any race/ethnicity.
Not to say that some mixed people can’t be racist or hateful, because they sure can. But most of us aren’t.
I believe that for the ones who come in here bashing Black people or boasting about their white features, they have either internalized shame and negativity about Blackness, or they’ve been rejected/mistreated so often by most Black people that they come to hate that side of themselves and they lash out.
I will admit that there was a time when I felt very hurt and angry because of the way I was treated and the way my mother was treated by some Black folks. She is also mixed and I witnessed some terrible actions towards her when I was young. I expected that treatment from racist white people, but it hurt even more coming from Black people because I viewed Black people as MY people. I felt more of a connection with Black people on some level despite my white skin. So I won’t lie…it really hurt when I realized that I was an outsider because of my appearance. Some people made me feel like a fraud, like I couldn’t understand anything about being Black because my looks weren’t “authentic” enough. And some people have actually tried to demonize me for having white heritage or make me feel ashamed of what I look like. They tried to convince me that I was ugly and that my skin was ugly. I guess this was an attempt to put me in my “place” because of the stereotype that mixed girls/light-skinned girls are snobs.
I didn’t hate anyone and I didn’t mistreat anyone, but I avoided most Black people for a while because I didn’t want to be hurt anymore. The only ones I didn’t avoid were a few family members or casual acquaintances. But otherwise I was just tired of people making me feel bad and pushing me away. I was tired of people accusing me of thinking I was better just because of my color. I just wanted to be accepted for who I was. I really wish I had close friendships with Black women and I’m working on that.
I could never hate Black people just because of what some people did. I still have some unresolved pain, but I’m trying to deal with that in the best way I can.
Thanks for answering my question and for being nice about it, y’all…I was kind of scared to ask. 😉
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I keep telling you ni66as to stop watching Adam Curtis…
Start with “Death of the Liberal Class” by Chris Hedges
Then “Amusing Ourselves to Death” by Neil Postman (will review soon)
Can Fables of Abundance and Conquest of Cool if you want.
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@ Cinnamondiva
That is very true they may actually not be mixed at all. I understand where you are coming from to an extent. Although I do not have white skin, because of the mix in my family I do have what some consider to be white features. Growing up with blacks in my area was a bit torturous, but I did not take my high school experience and turn on blacks. Most of the ones that accepted the actions actually are quite nice to me when I see them around. More so than expected.
On another note do not be afraid to ask questions here. I love it when people ask and take the time out to explain because to me we learn from each other here.
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Being aware that there is a history of propaganda is good, but what Curtis gives is NOT a history, it is a work of pseudo fiction that uses the exact same techniques that he himself criticizes (MTV quick edit techniques, using musical queues, characterization etc.) By focusing on Bernays and Freud, he (purposefully perhaps) ignores the men such as George Creel and Walter Lippmann. These men are proof that it was never a battle of the state and the market, but an intertwining relationship of both in a feedback loop, each benefiting and learning from the other. If, however, you believe in increasing government powers, then it would be in your own interest to portray government as being besieged by the private sector.
What I find superior about Postman is that he goes back to the very start – at the invention of photography and telegraphy to show how a populace must first have its information de-contextualized before they can be manipulated, while Hedges shows how the PR industry had its part in destroying what he calls the “liberal class” (which would include Curtis).
Curtis’ documentaries are self-demonstrating articles of what he rails against, which to me, make them worth watching for that alone.
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@ satanforce
it is a work of pseudo fiction that uses the exact same techniques that he himself criticizes
That reminds me of a tape I heard a long time ago called “mind control in america”. Its a decent enough tape. But the funny thing is that the tape itself is using some of the subliminal techniques its discussing. haha
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Flame it is!
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@ Cinnamondiva
Jamaica and UK. I understand everything you just said. I too am caramel with “different” features. Noone can pick up where I’m from by apperance. I’ve heard Haiti, Dominican Republic, Cape Verde…you name it…
Blacks are stricken by internal hatred so we turn on one another…thank you slavery! It’s so silly when you think about it. We all come from the same damn place.
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A bit of humour…old style
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0SbVFxl64A)
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@ truthbetold…that is the truth!
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Miriam Makeba sounds pretty nice
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfKJ_gzcSTA&list=PL19C75E0FBBEB2664&index=10&feature=plpp_video)
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@ Cinnamondiva
http://diaryofanegress.com/2012/05/12/light-vs-dark/
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@ The Cynic
On the Open Thread please put YouTube links in parentheses. That will keep them from embedding. The Open Thread is so long that if people embed YouTube videos right and left, the thread will become too slow to be usable.
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This Open Thread has been archived here:
https://abagond.wordpress.com/open-thread/open-thread-2/
There is a new, current Open Thread here:
https://abagond.wordpress.com/open-thread/
You can also get there, as always, by clicking on the Open Thread tab at the top of any page on this blog.
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Hi,
Please help this lady out. There’s only two days left to reach the needed amount of signatures. Thank you.
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/pardon-marissa-alexander-who-was-jailed-20-years-florida-trying-protect-herself-against-abusive-ex/k4zKdzTT
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