Feeds:
Posts
Comments

White History Month

White History Month, unlike Black History Month, is the month that never ends. From Patrick Henry’s “Give me liberty or give me death” to “manifest destiny” to America as “the great melting pot”, American history is not merely taught from a white point of view, it is taught as if blacks, Mexicans and Native Americans do not truly count as people.

White American slave owners, like George Washington, Thomas Jefferson and Patrick Henry, are held up as heroes of freedom. Meanwhile John Brown, who gave his life trying to free the slaves, is seen as what? A madman.

White racism is downplayed, so much so that whites say stuff like, “The Irish made it. What is wrong with blacks?” or sometimes even, “Jim Crow? What’s that?”

Lies are told about Native Americans and Africans so that the crimes committed against them by whites seem to be “not so bad”.

The achievements of whites, like the light bulb, are played up as wonders of invention while the achievements of people of colour – you know, like civilization, writing, iron, geometry, or like even clothing – are played down, taken for granted or just never get brought up for some reason. Egyptians, Middle Easterners and early man, meanwhile, become honorary whites for particular periods of history.

Consider:

  • Vested interests: White Americans come from a violently racist past and still benefit from the racist set-up of society that comes out of that past.
  • Point of view: Most writers and teachers of American history are white.
  • Money: Way more money has been poured into researching, writing and teaching white history than black history.

Yet we are supposed to believe that the history we were taught at school is somehow Magically Unaffected by all that.

History as taught at school (as opposed to university) is such an utterly self-serving whitewash that it should, at best, be called White American Studies. Add English literature to that.

Yet white people still say stuff like, “Why is there a Black History Month but not a White History Month?”

That is called being blind to white privilege.

It is called being so used to how society favours whites that you do not even notice it and think of it as just “normal” and even “fair”.

So fair that any change from it, like Black History Month or affirmative action, is seen as unfair, even racist.

But there is more: a misunderstanding of ethnic or racial pride.

Most White Americans were taught to “not see race”, to be raceless. Unfortunately that failed to end racism. So for people of colour pride in one’s race becomes a necessary and even healthy self-defence.

But the sort of pride most whites have in their race is so unhealthy, false and narcissistic that it needs to put down others to seem good by comparison and to play down evils like slavery to maintain the idea of whites as Basically Good. Their broken self-image leads to broken history and round and round it goes, hurting everyone.

Even though West Africa is at the centre of the map coordinates we use, it is almost never shown at the centre of the map. Why is that?

See also:

917 Responses

  1. As usual, insighful but generalised and very American-centric ;(

    Like


  2. Yet white people still say stuff like, “Why is there a Black History Month but not a White History Month?”

    That is called being blind to white privilege.

    I always found it amusing when I hear white people say Black History Month is racist. They truly don’t understand that every month is about White history. It’s ALWAYS about white people being at the forefront of everything. Their history is more important.

    Like


  3. For example, I’m pretty sure all of you have heard of the Vietnam War, yes? However, did you know the very first Vietnam war was the Philippine-American War (1899-1902)? I didn’t learn about this war through history books, but through my mother and my grandmother. My grandmother’s father and uncles were around that time and they said the American soldiers were slaughtering innocent civilians. Abagond wrote about the Philippine-American War on his blog and I’m glad for it. At least, this war has some recognition it deserves on here. Btw, thank you Abagond.

    https://abagond.wordpress.com/2010/10/01/philippine-american-war/

    Like


  4. Slightly unrelated, but I wondered into an entry on Wikipedia about the Modern Age of history. I’m sure you can guess where they claim it started…O_o

    Like


  5. @leigh204:

    Thanks for the link. I hadn’t read it.

    I can remember hating my American history class in high school, not because I hated history, but because I knew it was so biased. Black and Native American people were mentioned only as afterthoughts. It’s not hard to see where the arrogance comes from. Imagine believing you are the epitome of intelligence artistic ability and attractiveness, and on top of that, you created everything and the world is a better place because of you.

    Like


  6. Good post, again.

    Like


  7. And then you have some folks trying to re-write history to downplay slavery and to further mythologize their idols, the Founding Fathers. Thanks Abagond for continuing to drop the knowledge.

    Like


  8. But the sort of pride most whites have in their race is so unhealthy, false and narcissistic that it needs to put down others to seem good by comparison and to play down evils like slavery to maintain the idea of whites as Basically Good. Their broken self-image leads to broken history and round and round it goes, hurting everyone.

    This is what I find most interesting. Whenever you confront certain White people with this information they usually respond with, “What’s wrong with being White?” or “What’s the problem with having White Pride?” I usually ask them if they have so much “pride” then why do they feel the need to denigrate others? Contempt isn’t a positive reaction to having a healthy sense of self-identity. It is a sign that the opposite is, in fact, true.

    Let me address something relevant that has been on my mind the past few days. This is the issue of “Genome Bloggers”

    Genome Bloggers are a recent phenomenon where laymen hobbyists research a mix of Human genetics, Anthropology and History. This information is then presented on their websites with a great wealth of esoteric charts and antiquated source notes, usually concerning EUROPEAN and North African populations. Almost always, the individual in charge of the site is a European, a Southern European, to be precise. This distinction is important because there are many who don’t consider Southern European people to be fully White.

    Almost always, there is a general direction in which all of the presented information is directed, which is to prove two things:

    All Europeans are connected genetically. (a half truth)
    Southern Europeans have no to negligible Sub-Saharan DNA. (also a half-truth)

    In other words, they use a combination of quasi-historical “facts” and often out-of-date information on modern genetics to create an illusion of both unity (amongst all Europeans people) and separation (from those so-called sub-Human Blacks). It reminds me of what is done here in America through our school system when it comes to “our” own his-story. Whites are presented as having a distinct and unifying history from all other people, while PoC are bit players in a play they have directed. All of this, of course, is an illusion made from half-truths and sometimes, pure horse nuggets.

    In my opinion, when those slaves were freed in 1865, many Whites probably wanted to deport every single Black man, woman and child, but it was not economically feasible after the war. The mindset being: “Well, we got what we wanted! A free economic boost for three centuries! Now bounce, darkies!”

    Like


  9. ok you are on my fb officially now

    Like


  10. leigh–

    It’s ALWAYS about white people being at the forefront of everything. Their history is more important.

    Maybe, just maybe, that’s because white people HAVE been at the forefront of almost everything that’s been world changingly important for the last 500 years and more.

    http://glpiggy.net/2011/12/11/reparations/#comment-29170

    Of course in earlier centuries the Chinese invented lots of stuff. Not so much in ssAfrica.

    Perhaps the truth is racist.

    Like


  11. bro you need a wingman

    Like


  12. I am not trying to play down the slave momevement everybody was in the slave trade which blacks say was acceptable in africa not america. So lets forgive our black slave owners and never forgive our white masters. I do agree with on there is only white history in history class but blacks are not the only ones that get the shaft think for a minute which gay person in history has been shown? Which Oriental person has been shown its only on the Hawaii islands not the main land.

    Lies are told about Native Americans and Africans so that the crimes committed against them by whites seem to be “not so bad”.

    Well I can say the same thing to you about african MASTERS who sold there own people you do exact something! its not so bad! I dont see black people demend an apoglize from AFRICA where it started only WHITE AMERICA gets it. your hatred and irrationality is for WHITE AMERICANS and the WHITE Establisment!

    as for the other races chinese didnt want to be known for that even though they created it. But I do again agree with you about getting other people that are not all white or black.

    Well affirmative action is there are dirt poor white people and you dont want to recoganize that.

    Blacks play down the AFRICAN slave trade! thats what gets to me! Hatred for the white man but not africa!

    Like


  13. Nom de Plume–

    I can remember hating my American history class in high school, not because I hated history, but because I knew it was so biased.

    Nothing that I took in history was remotely as biased as Abagond’s version of white historical alleged and sometimes real atrocities. His post on the war in the Philippines involving a relatively small number of American troops, following the Spanish American war which wrested them from Spain putting down the guerrilla rebels there, doesn’t have a single link supporting what he presents as uncontested facts about American atrocities there. Further he completely omits much more frequent and widespread rebel atrocities not just against Americans but also their own countrymen who sided with Americans, aided them in any way, or even just didn’t side with the rebels. We were not fighting a war against most Philippinos. It was a times a pretty dirty war on both sides though, yes.

    I did learn about this war in my very good high school as a matter of fact.

    Like


  14. Well they want facts not oral history because you ever play that game everybody is around a circle and one person says to the other person beside them and by the time it reaches you again the story is changed. NOT to say there isnt a kernal of truth but the facts get skewered. Plus your dealing with the history teacher which teaches history and he has his perspective we should always question and strive to find the truth because like the Vietnam war we shouldnt have been there and the Thomas Jefferson Sally Hemming relationship. It was a complex time back then.

    Like


  15. Mik—

    I do agree with on there is only white history in history class but blacks are not the only ones that get the shaft think for a minute which gay person in history has been shown?

    Alexander the Great for one. Well he was bisexual. I also learned in high school that mostly non exclusive homosexually (bisexuality) was commonly practiced among the classical Greek elites, and sometimes in Rome as well.

    It’s natural for a culture to focus primarily on its own cultural history and background. Especially when it’s been the world leading culture for the last 550 years.

    Which Oriental person has been shown its only on the Hawaii islands not the main land.

    Lots of them in high school. We had a world history class in our junior year, that mostly focused on China, Japan, the Mongols and earlier steppe nomads, a touch of SE Asia, and the Arabs/Muslims, and brief bits about ssAfrica. (I’d taken ancient history before, which was Mesopotamia through Rome, basically.) The focus of the class was the high points of world civilizations other than European ones, and other than before classical Greece in the Near East, as that had already been covered earlier.

    Like


  16. Mik–

    White men didn’t invent the slave trade or slavery, but they did end it for all the world.

    Like


  17. I didnt know that. do you see? I did know about the greeks though but where is it Oydessy in that story or a gladiator movie? Not there. Well except to make the king evil and he has sex with both genders

    But thats world history. Not american history which I agree with blacks on there are many people that contributed to america but we need to unearth them and make them known. Harriett Tubman was a spy Anna May Wong was an actress in america and helped Orientals. Bruce Lee but I am talking about chinese and Japanese people who shaped america not ones that were just in Karate

    Like


  18. @Doug1

    “White men didn’t invent the slave trade or slavery, but they did end it for all the world.”

    Are you serious? Did that statement really make you feel better?
    Get real, please for your own good.

    Like


  19. well blacks dont realize that! and when is africa going to say sorry for enslaving there own people? When are blacks going to recognaize there own people put them in chains? the slave trade is always the white mans fualt not once did I get blacks were against africa. its the whites mans world and the white man keeps me down

    Like


  20. Abagond—

    But the sort of pride most whites have in their race is so unhealthy, false and narcissistic that it needs to put down others to seem good by comparison and to play down evils like slavery to maintain the idea of whites as Basically Good.

    This is thoroughly hypocritical.

    Tons of blacks including most definitely you all the time on this blog, put down whites in general to seem good by comparison in any way they can think of. Whites joining others in participating in owning slaves and in the slave trade, and purported or vastly exaggerated and out of context (what was the other side doing) white atrocities you can dig up from generally from leftist and highly biased sources you rarely link, and so on. “White men can jump”, “can’t dance”, “aren’t as manly”, “aren’t as good at sports” (well generally not as good as the best west African heritage men at sports where jumping and sprinting are of key importance), and so on.

    You also love to play up evils like slavery and pretend that whites were uniquely or disproportionately responsible for it around the world, which is utter rubbish.

    What “white privilege” amounts to is black general, overall, non competitiveness in any endeavors involving more than small amounts of brain work, which is most work in America these days. Blacks/ssAfricans are notably less intelligent and whites/Euro ancestry people, largely but not entirely for genetic reasons, the bulk of the evidence indicates. That there’s a big IQ gap is utterly incontrovertible

    Like


  21. Green–

    Of course I’m serious. It’s also the historical fact. Britain began by outlawing it’s nationals own participation in slave trading beginning in 1808. It abolished slavery in it’s colonies in 1834. It then began a world wide campaign to end slave trading and then slavery, using it’s Royal Navy’s rule of the seas (like America’s rule of it post WWII, to help end it. For prestige reasons France followed suit, esp. diplomatically

    America also in 1808 banned any further importation of slaves. As we all know we fought a civil war to end slavery in America beginning in 1860. By around 1900 when America was beginning to feel itself a world power, we joined Britain in seeking to stamp out slavery everywhere. Saudi Arabia still had it to some degree into the 1960s. Mauritania officially bans it but many say it’s still practiced there and the ban is not at all enforced. We have little influence there.

    Like


  22. I will concede this about the picture of the “Delaware River” and Washington’s Crossing. In History Books they made it like an ocean, and it is nowhere near that wide. In the pic there is even icebergs, again I assure no icebergs have ever formed in the Delaware in the last 9000 years. I live right near it South of Philadelphia near Chester PA. Now in Chester it does start to get pretty wide becuase it eventually dumps into the Delaware Bay which is wide. But the Philly Crossing? It would Take 10 Minutes. I Could swim that in 35 minutes.

    Like


  23. Abagond—

    American history is not merely taught from a white point of view, it is taught as if blacks, Mexicans and Native Americans do not truly count as people.

    No it’s taught as if the contributions those groups have made to modern American civilization haven’t been that great, which they haven’t. Hell 40 years ago we didn’t even have many Hispanic American except in Texas and southern California, though nothing even in those places as today. They haven’t exactly been leaders of any notable areas in this country since.

    For the last twenty years the contributions of Amerindians and blacks have been blow way out of proportion in schools all over America, actually. The translator Sacajawea is turned into the most important and only crucial person on the Lewis and Clark expedition for example, which is absurd. Tubman is sainted and ML King even more sainted. And so on.

    Like


  24. Dave–

    I will concede this about the picture of the “Delaware River” and Washington’s Crossing. In History Books they made it like an ocean

    Well, a wide river, yes. Which I gather it isn’t at the spot.

    That however is simple legend building and hero worshiping of our first commanding general and first President. It’s not denegrating any other race. It is promoting him above the British, who were our opponents in seeking independence, white men, and Washington’s forebearers.

    Like


  25. @ Doug

    If Europeans are so vastly superior then why did it take a small tribe from the Mediterranean region (Rome) to elevate the whole of Western Europe? Where are the ancient Celtic books? Where are the massive buildings of the Gauls? Where are the paintings of the Pictish people? If Whites are, in general superior to other races as you imply, then shouldn’t this be reflected in ALL European cultures? Hell, even your numerical system isn’t even from Europe. Whites always talk about “mud huts” in Africa, when some Eastern Europeans still live in them today. And who says any of the people whom you call “White” would give themselves that label and be sympathetic to you? Probably very few.

    You know the type of people who tend to rely on racial accomplishments? People with no personal accomplishments of their own. It’s OK to have pride in what your ancestors have done, but when you take it to a level of veneration, then you show your lack of self-value.

    Like


  26. By and large; black people/native/asian peoples contributions have been limited due to at a minimum the main race/white people keeping them at lower levels of society thus limiting their impact on inventions and large scale leadership etc……

    Fact of life, making black people slaves, keeping all others at lower levels of existence limits what contributions they could make over the years.

    Most US history is white because mostly it was white people making it.

    Did the various other groups/cultures contribute more than is generally let on?

    Yes but end of the day; most of the accomplishments worth being mentioned in the US-history books were white.

    As for inventing civilization; what people call “civilization” is relative, europeans didn’t view the natives as civilized when they came to this country and same with the africas they went to.

    Didn’t know black people invented Iron, of course I don’t know who invented steel either, neither of those were taught in m schools.

    And I don’t know what skin color cave men were but I suspect they wore clothes of one sort or another.

    Far as math goes we didn’t learn much about who came up with it, they spent all their time cramming it into our thick skulls.

    Like


  27. I would also agree with Doug1/Someguy as well; most people who seem to have notable amounts of pride in their race, black or otherwise seem to have a love for their own race also have a hate on for other races and are the most pathetic ones out of their groups.

    Like


  28. Elaboration on and earlier point. The Delaware can get somewhat icy, Especially where the crossing was- north philly towards Trenton where the English Occupations was headquartered at the time. But pointy icebergs? never. They are more like thin sheets of ice engulfed by water that could have been tricky depending on where they crossed. But it was definitely exaggerated.

    Like


  29. And its pretty much impossible to seperate racial pride from playing down other races.

    Think about home sports teams, people are always getting posters up that say were #1 etc….than they make fun of the other teams or talk about how they are going to kick their butt about how the guys 10 miles down the road are monsters etc……

    Pride means feeling good about your race or self, if you feel good about it there’s a reason and thats because your better or at least competitive in some way and if your better or “The Best” whats that mean about others?

    They are worse.

    You can’t seperate racial pride and hate because they are intimate and intertwined companions from birth.

    Like


  30. LOL @ White people subjugating others for centuries then crying, “Why, don’t you have any notable global contributions?”

    That is like me holding back a runner until the very last minute of the race and then chastising them for not only not placing but for not winning.:) This is some fun house mirror ass logic.

    Like


  31. Some Guy—

    If Europeans are so vastly superior then why did it take a small tribe from the Mediterranean region (Rome) to elevate the whole of Western Europe? Where are the ancient Celtic books? Where are the massive buildings of the Gauls? Where are the paintings of the Pictish people? If Whites are, in general superior to other races as you imply, then shouldn’t this be reflected in ALL European cultures?

    I think NE Asians are right up there also, and their historical contributions reflect that. Not as up there historically as the Euros, with their two great civilizational runs from 1) roughly 500 BC with classical Greek civilization which continued great though moving more to be centered at Alexandria after awhile until about 200 AD, and overlapping Roman civilization, becoming great around 200 bc, and 2) pan Western and Central European civilization, plus then their English transplant ones, beginning I’d say at 1450 with Gutenberg’s first ever mass production printing press, whose relatively cheap and almost immediate resulting pamphlets, journals and books had much to do with the birth of the European first ever in the world systematic scientific revolution.

    The general answer to your question is that brilliant civilizational advances require two things 1) a sufficiently large smart fraction of the population, which La Griffe du Lion puts at around 110 IQ, though the idea can also be applied to higher iq levels where most of the really important advances occur, which due to bell curve statistics occurs in higher average IQ populations, and 2) historical cultural and usually military momentum. The former is racially based; the later requires the first but also depends upon historical developments and momentum and to some extent to begin with what might be thought of as either accidents, or sufficiently complicated and unique to that occurrence in history as to be about the same thing.

    Once Rome started developing an incredibly well disciplined military force, it started gaining more and more wealth through conquering more lands and more slaves and more treasure, which attracted Greek intellectuals to impart their own high culture which Romans adopted but also somewhat modified, and so on. There was money and purpose for inventors to invent world leading aqueducts, and machines of war, such as the catapult and mechanical bows and iron arrows, and siege towers and so on.

    Like


  32. Who is Doug trying to convince of European superiority? Because it certainly isn’t us. That would be a complete and utter exercise in futility. What does he hope to accomplish with his posts? That we ignorant darkies will some how magically see the light concerning our errant ways? That history as WE know it to be is false and the image the white man presents is much more factual? I’m not getting these borderline obsessive posts. What are they trying to accomplish/get from us? That we will break and say, “Yes, Europeans are much smarter than everyone on the planet.” And if in some bizarro world where that happened, what would it accomplish? This acknowledgement of “superiority”. And if they are so superior, why are they concerned with what us lowly Negroids think? Can someone please explain this to me, because I am not understanding this logic.

    Like


  33. V-4–

    Fact of life, making black people slaves, keeping all others at lower levels of existence limits what contributions they could make over the years.

    Blacks ceased to be slaves in America in 1865. Well officially two years before that, but in practice only where Union armies were marching through the south. Long before that there were significant numbers of free blacks, most of them living in the north, where there were no government nor anything close to universal barriers to them from advancing. Many did. There has been a small black upper class before the civil war and a considerably larger one in the north before the civil rights laws of the 1960s.

    Jim Crow was only practiced in the southeaster US before 1964.

    There was some prejudice against blacks in the north and west yes, but it wasn’t universal and it wasn’t really much worse than the prejudice against many early arriving in the north and west other groups different from core early Anglo (soon commingled with German) American stock. The Irish for example for quite a while, the Poles for less long but a while, the Jews fairly briefly as far as most mainstream esp. northern American views went, the Italians who came at about the same time as the Jews did in numbers (1880-1924). All those groups rose up at varying speeds into average or in the Jews case above average American academic, income and cultural performance, and were no longer viewed with prejudice. The difference is that neither blacks, Hispanics nor Amerindians, at least those full blooded ones mostly living on welfare reservations, ever did rise up. So there remains some negative judgments called prejudice by the PC as a result of that. But not the other groups.

    NE Asians and the S. Asians we let into this country are also doing well, despite being different races from Euros. (Well S. Asians are a racial mix that we’re only now teasing out.) Among the educated there’s very little real prejudice against those groups these days as a result, including very little closeted prejudice by the PC that Abagond likes to claim most whites still have for blacks. ( I don’t really disagree with him that liberals do generally think blacks are less smart than whites, more disruptive and obnoxious, more criminal and so on, but pretend not to. Maybe they think that because it’s true, both our best statistics and everyday experience tells us. Why they deny it publically is somewhat more complicated and outside the scope of this comment.

    Like


  34. darqbeauty–

    White people subjugating others for centuries then crying, “Why, don’t you have any notable global contributions?”

    White people ruled the world for quite a while because they could. Not because others such as Africans were so pacific. They also stopped ruling the world nearly as much mostly for internal white world moral reasons.

    Subjugating is also lurid language. ssAfrica was unquestionably improved through it’s brief period of white colonialism. Well not the Belgian Congo during it’s early rule as a direct fiefdom of the King of Belgium Leopold the II (or some number), but after the Belgian state took over in 1908 it was made much better off than in pre colonial days.

    The early stages of European colonialism were mostly about setting up trading entrepots, for their world ranging sea commerce their ship technology and cannons adapted for ships afforded them. In England’s case uniquely it was about setting up European heavily populated settler/plantation colonies, at lest in some less populated places, e.g. N. America, S. Africa, Australia and New Zealand.

    The subsequent move to governmentally ruled colonies were in most places reform movements meant as much for uplift of the native peoples, as for profit. In fact it was in many or most places a governmental at least loss making proposition.

    The main thing that colonial elites, and pretty much only elites typically resented, was the European sense of superiority. And besides, they wanted to be the top dogs, especially after receiving often lefty oriented educations at British and French universities in the 1920’s and 30s.

    Like


  35. @Doug1:

    Maybe, just maybe, that’s because white people HAVE been at the forefront of almost everything that’s been world changingly important for the last 500 years and more.

    http://glpiggy.net/2011/12/11/reparations/#comment-29170

    Of course in earlier centuries the Chinese invented lots of stuff. Not so much in ssAfrica.

    Perhaps the truth is racist.

    Yes, the white people’s version of “truth” is racist.

    Nothing that I took in history was remotely as biased as Abagond’s version of white historical alleged and sometimes real atrocities. His post on the war in the Philippines involving a relatively small number of American troops, following the Spanish American war which wrested them from Spain putting down the guerrilla rebels there, doesn’t have a single link supporting what he presents as uncontested facts about American atrocities there. Further he completely omits much more frequent and widespread rebel atrocities not just against Americans but also their own countrymen who sided with Americans, aided them in any way, or even just didn’t side with the rebels. We were not fighting a war against most Philippinos. It was a times a pretty dirty war on both sides though, yes.

    I did learn about this war in my very good high school as a matter of fact.

    Again, you learned this stuff from the white perspective. You weren’t there, but my great-grandparents were and had witnessed a lot of atrocities committed. I’d believe my relatives over some white man’s version of truth any day.

    Like


  36. Doug, I am not going to address you. I know what you think of my people. It is clear that you think we benefited from colonialism and probably chattel slavery too. I don’t understand why you are obsessively posting here. If us Negroids are so lowly, why do you care what we think? If we are so unintelligent, why try to “educate” us? I’m not understanding your presence here. It is adding nothing to the topic at hand. I am also not understanding what you hope to get in response to your posts. That is why my posts were not directed towards you but the other posters and readers. I am hoping to get insight from the others as to what your motives for being here are. Are we supposed to agree with your superiority? Then what? What do you want from there?

    *puzzled expression*

    I don’t get this persons logic. This is very weird and kid of creepy too. What do they want from us?

    Like


  37. @doug1

    I don’t know if you can say there wasn’t still serious black racism and efforts going out to hold them back, I mean if the black populace did too well they would burn down those neighborhoods or even entire towns in the early 1900’s.

    And the last case of Peonage was what around 1967?

    Like


  38. V-4–

    Didn’t know black people invented Iron, of course I don’t know who invented steel either, neither of those were taught in m schools.

    They didn’t. Last I looked a decade ago it wasn’t conclusively proven that they didn’t independently invent it, but that seems unlikely. It was invented in the middle east, Turkey iirc, thousands of years before present in ssAfrica. The Sahara for most periods of modern humans has been hard for masses of poor people to transit but it wasn’t impossible for well off merchant caravans to transit. Ideas and knowledge travel with small numbers of educated elite peoples.

    The earliest found instances of steel were found in Anatolia, modern Turkey, and date from 4000 years ago.

    Until the modern Bessemer process first developed in England, but then further developed in the US esp. by Andrew Carnegie, who you may have heard of, steel was mondo expensive and pretty much only used for swords and knives for battle or knives for the well off, and similar. Before the English, the Arabs in Damascus during the early Muslim era produced the finest and hardest steel in the world. It was mondo expensive there though.

    Like


  39. V-4–

    I don’t know if you can say there wasn’t still serious black racism and efforts going out to hold them back, I mean if the black populace did too well they would burn down those neighborhoods or even entire towns in the early 1900′s.

    It happened on occasion in the north and west, but it hardly happened all the time or even that often. There’s a famous case, well made famous by leftists and black historians, that occurred in Oklahoma, Tulsa I think, to the so called “black stock exchange” there. Maybe a rudimentary one. I don’t know all that much about that, but it does seem to have been atrocious.

    Point is this didn’t happen all that often in the north and west. Some private discrimination yes. I said some. Most hotels, inns and restaurants in the north would accept respectable looking black patrons. Might their standards for what’s respectable looking have been tougher as applied to blacks as opposed to say Italians, yeah, often I think. Not all would. Public schools didn’t have race bars, but there did tend to be residential clustering and not infrequently refusal to rent to blacks in fully white neighborhoods. That was fluid though. And individual. whites in the north and west didn’t necessarily shun black owned businesses if they offered what they wanted at the best price.

    Like


  40. Leigh–

    I’d believe my relatives over some white man’s version of truth any day.

    Irrational, nepotistic, racism.

    But it’s supposed to be ok because you’re not white in a white majority and lead country?

    I think not. I don’t believe in leveling, but rather competition.

    Like


  41. thats what I dont like its all about the minority and not everyone! In Australia the lost generation both sides hated them it wasnt just one side

    Like


  42. Leigh–

    Again, you learned this stuff from the white perspective.

    I’ll look at any perspective on a topic of interest to me, as long as it’s well supported by documented facts and so on.

    Abagond links to almost nothing when he goes on his white atrocity rants.

    Like


  43. See Oral history is not all that accurate Morgan freeman said his ancestors were from the Air force and that wasnt true

    Like


  44. @Doug1:

    Irrational, nepotistic, racism.

    But it’s supposed to be ok because you’re not white in a white majority and lead country?

    I think not. I don’t believe in leveling, but rather competition.

    Call me whatever you like. It makes you feel better about yourself. Go right ahead. Still, white people have distorted the truth for their own gain. You guys don’t like to be called out, but we can see right through you. Nice try.

    Like


  45. Nice fail.

    Well not really nice, but fail.

    That’s all you got?

    Like


  46. Genome Bloggers are a recent phenomenon where laymen hobbyists research a mix of Human genetics, Anthropology and History.

    They sound familiar….HBDers anyone? Too bad the ‘Northern Europeans’ equivalent don’t agree with them!

    @Thomas:

    What are you on about?

    Maybe, just maybe, that’s because white people HAVE been at the forefront of almost everything that’s been world changingly important for the last 500 years and more.

    https://abagond.wordpress.com/2009/11/06/the-white-inventor-argument/

    That there’s a big IQ gap is utterly incontrovertible

    Hey Doug 1, maybe you should take up genome blogging! I like pretty pictures!

    Where are the ancient Celtic books?

    There ain’t none unless you consider reading runes on dessicated skeletal parts or rocks, books.

    Where are the massive buildings of the Gauls?

    http://www.baueda.com/plastikornar/20mm_buildings.html

    Like


  47. Competition as an acting principle is malarky Doug1.

    If competition were a social reality you wouldn’t have trust fund children cruising through harvard while those in urban communities have to scrimp and save through two jobs to get their child into a half-decent college.

    A system that was stacked in it’s construction can’t suddenly be held to some mythological rubric that everything is straight, that those that are in a difficult place are there because of a physical reality and not the politics of their location, the risks that poverty put on physical health, mental health, education status, etc.

    We live in a very “the rich get richer; the poor get poorer society.”

    No matter the pleas to the contrary.

    Vote Barack Obama 2012.

    Like


  48. White history is a lie. If it wasn’t so, then why is it called “little white lies?” lol!

    Like


  49. @ Doug1

    The Sahara is extremely easy to cross. It is called the Nile.

    Like


  50. Hahahahaha! Oh, abagond. Funny!😀

    Like


  51. abagond–

    Yes. Relatively.

    There were several large catafracts or waterfalls on it though upstream into Nubia.

    Also the Nubians were only at the very low points in Egyptian mostly racially Semitic history able to rule Egypt for a few decades. Low points in terms of economic, cultural and military power. The last degenerate Egypt, like the last degenerate Rome of the late 400’s ad.

    Like


  52. *watching the others feed the troll*

    I don’t like to feed them. they have a tendency to bite the hand that feeds them. I still am in utter perplexity as to what they want from us. Why are they here and trying to prove what to us lowly Negroes, Asians and the like.

    *chewing popcorn thoughtfully*

    Curiouser and curiouser.

    Like


  53. Roman civilization

    This is particularly hilarious! The Ancient Romans for the most part, would have looked down on most other Europeans much as you are looking down on racialized people. They would have found your viewpoints laughable!

    Once Rome started developing an incredibly well disciplined military force, it started gaining more and more wealth through conquering more lands and more slaves and more treasure, which attracted Greek intellectuals to impart their own high culture which Romans adopted but also somewhat modified, and so on.

    Another font of hilarity! The Romans conquered Greece! The Greeks did not ‘impart’ their culture willingly! To the victor goes the spoils as it were. Foul, rank barbarians didn’t count, and weren’t seen as a part of one big European family. Funnily enough Doug 1, the ‘coloured’ barbarians were seen as more civilized. Just read Julius Caesars account of Gaul, heck read almost any account of the ‘barbarian’ written during the Republican or Imperial eras. They, the Romans didn’t like you! The only thing you were good for was conquering and being enslaved. Any benefit that came from being enslaved by the Romans was a bonus..

    There was money and purpose for inventors to invent world leading aqueducts, and machines of war, such as the catapult and mechanical bows and iron arrows, and siege towers and so on.</em.

    I guess you never heard of the 'Dark Ages' huh?

    Who is Doug trying to convince of European superiority?

    Himself? Tell us Doug 1, what did you invent?

    That’s all you got?

    Is that all you have? You see Doug, individuals invent , not groups. You prove all the points made in this post with every word you type. As Darq Beauty asks, what do you hope to achieve with your points. So far hilarity. You read like an automaton. In fact, I would have loved to see how you would have fared in Ancient Rome(preferably during its’ Republican days). You probably would have been cleaning out the slop buckets wearing a tablet saying: Douglius, property of Marcus Agrippa or some such.

    When people question me about the validity of Black History month, I tell them it is white history month the rest of the year. Besides, They gave us the shortest month!

    Like


  54. @darqbeauty:

    *watching the others feed the troll*

    I don’t like to feed them. they have a tendency to bite the hand that feeds them. I still am in utter perplexity as to what they want from us. Why are they here and trying to prove what to us lowly Negroes, Asians and the like.

    *chewing popcorn thoughtfully*

    Curiouser and curiouser.

    You are correct. Besides, I ran out of food.😉

    Like


  55. I found a picture of Doug1:

    Like


  56. LOL @ Abagaond!!!!!!!!!!!!! BWAAAAhahahahhahahahahah!!

    Like


  57. @ Doug1:

    “Jim Crow was only practiced in the southeaster US before 1964.”

    You do know, right, that the lynching pictured in the post takes place in Indiana? It says it in the picture right under the leaves.

    Like


  58. Abagond,

    Yeah Indiana, for some historical reason I don’t know, was very sympathetic as a northern state to the south in the civil war, were called “copperheads”, and have been anti black to a good degree since. Lots of KKK there too in like the 20s, almost unique among northern states. Haven’t researched why, but know about it.

    Like


  59. I find it interesting that some of the most racist people are the very ones who think racism is dead or no longer a big deal. They are like a walking self-refutation.

    Like


  60. Also the Nubians were only at the very low points in Egyptian mostly racially Semitic history able to rule Egypt for a few decades.

    The 25th dynasty ruled Egypt for over a hundred years. There were other black dynasties. Try 1 up until the Persian conquest of Egypt. Sort of like the Normans conquering Britain if you need a comparison.

    Like


  61. Exactly doug we dont have that balance of what whites did for blacks during the slave trade! There were even some who fought against slavery and married the black slaves. bannaker is a famous slave owner she was a master but fell in love with her slave and they had kids during that time and her descendents become prominent people.

    Like


  62. troll here = anyone who disagrees with the main messages of the blog poster.

    Deny this if you can.

    You can’t.

    I don’t so far accuse Abagond himself of this.

    Like


  63. Well; that kind of makes sense, most racist people don’t think of themselves as “racist” per say because being racist is to have a biased and illogical point of view.

    Their personal opinion of what they say or do is that its based off personal lived experience and rational thought.

    If they are racist, not only are they wrong but their also irrational and have an inferior capacity for processing things and don’t think as well as the non-racists.

    In a nut shell; being racists makes them inferior whereas being right simply makes them “non-PC”.

    Like


  64. Deny this if you can.

    I deny it!

    You can’t.

    Yes I can!

    I don’t so far accuse Abagond himself of this.

    How very convenient!

    Like


  65. “Yeah Indiana, for some historical reason I don’t know, was very sympathetic as a northern state to the south in the civil war, were called “copperheads”, and have been anti black to a good degree since. Lots of KKK there too in like the 20s, almost unique among northern states. Haven’t researched why, but know about it.”

    Prior to the Civil War, the southern edge of the Midwest was settled primarily by poor white Southerners who brought the culture of their home region with them. The family of Abraham Lincoln falls into this category.

    Like


  66. @ Herneith

    You know what I find interesting? When you watch films about Ancient Rome, who are the main actors playing them? English men and women. Two thousand years ago, they would be Roman slaves or worse, yet some English apparently revere their former masters. You almost NEVER see films about British history, from the British perspective, prior to the Battle of Hastings. If you do, it’s always about fanciful Camelot, which I believe was supposed to be in Ancient Wales.

    Like


  67. Doug1 is not a troll. He has been here before. As far as I can tell he honestly believes what he is saying.

    Like


  68. Wow. That is even more disturbing.

    Like


  69. Spamming the boards with something you believe is in my humble opinion a form of trolling.

    Not saying he’s done that but that whether someone believes their thought or not doesn’t wholly constitute the criteria for trolling. But the again this is just my thought on this. But i think of someone like Thordaddy who seemed to believe what he was saying regardless of being indecipherable.

    Like


  70. Abagond, since you seem to be familiar with him, maybe YOU can answer my question. What are his motives for coming here? What is his agenda? What does he hope to gain from these posts? I am puzzled as to how he expects us to respond to his European superiority fixation. Are we supposed to agree? Then what? Maybe I am thick skulled but I do not understand his presence if he is not a troll. Can someone help me with this? Because I am confounded to say the least.

    Like


  71. Thank you Abagond.

    That’s integrity. As measured against interest.

    Well I’m educated as a lawyer though that’s not what I’ve done for a ton of years. Moved on to greener fields.

    Admissions against interest are given hugely more weight, for good logical reasons.

    Like


  72. Two thousand years ago, they would be Roman slaves or worse, yet some English apparently revere their former masters.

    Well they say the British are kinky so maybe that is why they revere their ‘masters’. They are revering masters to this day! Seriously, why would they when they were regularly getting their behinds whooped on a constant basis? Plus, they were more ‘savage’ and filthy back then. Where’s the entertainment in showing a bunch of filthy, hairy half naked fools running about and wielding sticks? And yet they use the Romans as a yard stick as to why they became ‘superior to other civilizations.

    Like


  73. I hate my assigned icon. Which is so totally non representative.

    Those that know me from the game sphere, know I’m an alpha.

    Whatever.

    Don’t hate you peeps at all, but can’t stand all your blame and hate of us white people. Live and let live. Compete. No governmental equalization or privilege for anyone, including whites.

    Like


  74. @ doug

    You really think the playing field is level enough between the two races where equal opportunity exists?

    Like


  75. things were all exaggrated back then

    Like


  76. Someguy–

    Yes.

    And then some.

    Like


  77. @ Doug1

    “Don’t hate you peeps at all, but can’t stand all your blame and hate of us white people. Live and let live. Compete. No governmental equalization or privilege for anyone, including whites.”

    White here. And here is my response to that.

    ^^^^^^^^^^^

    Competition as an acting principle is malarky.

    If competition were a social reality you wouldn’t have trust fund children cruising through harvard while those in urban communities have to scrimp and save through two jobs to get their child into a half-decent college.

    A system that was stacked in it’s construction can’t suddenly be held to some mythological rubric that everything is straight, that those that are in a difficult place are there because of a physical reality and not the politics of their location, the risks that poverty put on physical health, mental health, education status, etc.

    We live in a very “the rich get richer; the poor get poorer society.”

    Like


  78. we just have to remind ourselves race is a very complex issue

    Like


  79. @ Doug

    Then I honestly can’t believe you were a lawyer. A real lawyer would never say something like that. Unless, you were a non-criminal lawyer and even then it’s a stretch.

    Like


  80. @ SomeGuy

    Corporate lawyer would probably match the psychological profile of his postings. At least maybe that was his fantasy.

    LOL.

    Like


  81. its not just whites who have held them back its have and the have nots. think about it. it wasnt about race in the deep south as it was both sides were dirt poor. the biggest thing people fight on is about religon not race.

    Like


  82. Unlike most who frequent this blog, I’m more a nationalist (of the civic variety) than a racialist. I feel that US historical figures such as George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Frederick Douglass, and Booker T. Washington should not be regarded primarily as representatives of modern day racial factions but rather as great Americans.

    Like


  83. Oh there is racism everywhere I dont know who or where you got the Chinese and Japanese people cant be racist/ There was a black and chinese girl in canton China and she was not picked because of her race. Racism is everywhere

    Like


  84. and the igorance continues

    Like


  85. Like I said there were black slave owners

    Like


  86. @ Mik

    I’m a bit confused. You seem to be responding to questions and statements from non-existent people. Are you OK?

    Like


  87. @ Mik

    “Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra.”

    “Shaka, when the walls fell.”

    “Temba, his arms wide!”

    Like


  88. Is that ebonoics?

    Like


  89. @mik

    It was and still is about race.

    Not that long ago a study of sorts was done when they questioned people about the death penalty.

    When it got pointed out the disparities etc….inregards to the varying people of color and white people when it came to who got executed and who didn’t.

    PoC, blacks, asians, latino’s etc…..including the ones who were intially pro-death penalty at least felt it was something to think about if not out right changed their positions.

    Do know what happened the majority of the time it involved white people and these questions?

    When pointed out how racial bias made it so that more PoC were executed than would if white, it only made them “more likely” to support the death penalty not less.

    Having lived in the South for awhile now; I can honestly say the amount of racism down here is incredible.

    And it comes from all sides; white hate black people, black people hate white, mexicans hate both……

    Its not what it used to be but damn; there is still quite a bit of it.

    Like


  90. Yes Mik, who exactly are you responding to?

    Like


  91. I see someone is not a star trek fan.:)

    Like


  92. @ V-4

    I’m glad someone got that. Ha!

    Like


  93. I do agree with the blame game but some need assitence

    Like


  94. I think Mik may be in another place.

    Like


  95. well what about the people who think racism is around every corner?

    Like


  96. on Thu 9 Feb 2012 at 02:16:23 vanishing point.

    eyes rolling and popping, lolol, hope this ain’t contagious.

    Like


  97. @Doug1:

    Don’t hate you peeps at all, but can’t stand all your blame and hate of us white people.

    Why do you think we “hate” white people? How come any form of criticism leveled against white Americans is swiftly construed as “hatred”?

    Or more to the point, are you and others like you so afraid of any criticism from black Americans that you’d go to great lengths to effectively bar such by reclassifying it as “hatred”? Is polite praise the only acceptable feedback that white Americans can tolerate from their black counterparts?

    Instead of wondering why black history has to be relegated to a single month, as though it was an alien culture that has no real place in American history, should we collectively kiss the expansive ass of white American culture by praising and co-opting its history as the only one that matters in this country?

    Like


  98. the same reason you put white people down with saying blacks were bred to do sports! yeah you would think after getting your president things would change obivously not since his too white now isnt he he doesnt understand the black culture in america

    Like


  99. No one and I mean NO ONE says Blacks were bred to do sports.

    NO ONE.

    Like


  100. White self- servitude, pride and self-hatred are and forever will be the foundation of the demise of our civilization.
    Slavery was and continues to be such a driving force in this nation, it’s impossible now to undo it.

    Until whites are put in the EXACT same catagory, stripped of their freedoms, dignity, will, humanity and sense of being, they will never know the pain they put us through.( And I have a funny feeling if they woke up tomorrow with brown skin, most would commit suicide.)

    This is why they fear us, my brothers and sisters…
    They know and sense that the time is inching ever so closely to their demise.

    Other countries HATE white America.
    I know this personally.
    Whites are seen as a group to be feared due to MISTRUST because of their natures, admired for their SHREWDNESS and hated for their lack of compassion and INTOLERANCE!

    That’s why they demonize us all.
    That’s why they look down on us.
    That’s why they try desperately to keep us from being successful.

    It’s all about self reflection.
    Talk about being F-ed up.

    Like


  101. but you sure support tracy morgan and Issiah washington about homophobic remarks and Eriq la salle. If a white man said I want to cut Obamas balls off you all would come down on him like a ton of bricks! there are no whites that would stand to up too you! I have noticed blacks dont want to be questioned and defied but they will do the defying. No one else can. Do as I say not as I do

    Like


  102. @Mik

    well what about the people who think racism is around every corner?

    One thing that irks me is how genuine concerns about continuing racism in this day and age is construed as paranoia. To the average suburban white who is undoubtedly tired of hearing of how he/she and others like him or her are somehow responsible for a wide variety of racial evils, the calls of attention to continuing instances of racism do sound like paranoid whining to them.

    Like


  103. I have noticed blacks dont want to be questioned and defied but they will do the defying. No one else can. Do as I say not as I do.

    Funny. For the longest time, white Americans have done just that. This whole projection thing is really starting to get out of hand.

    Like


  104. well its the same with you. since you you whine and expect people to understand you

    Like


  105. No not as much as blacks have done and it continues. I wonder if the rules were different would you still blame the white man or the chinese man?

    Like


  106. @ Mik….My only comment regarding why blacks have not pulled themselves up by their bootstraps to advance as well as other immigrant groups is because…..most of us can always be identified by the color of our skin and therefore discriminated against. It’s as simple as that. A jew may be a jew, an irishman may be irish, but they are still white….bottom line.

    Like


  107. and nothing is black and white as you think it is. since some people are gay and you wouldnt even know it because they act straight and then you bash the gay community thinking that straight acting person is straight

    Like


  108. I had to get my thoughts together to comment on this one:

    I always say that the reason is that there IS such a thing as Black History Month or anything dedicated or devoted to blackness in a positive way is that this nation prides itself on making black people seem worth less than whites. Our history, our achievements, our identities, and even our very own humanity is censored for the sake of making whites seem superior.

    These holidays, celebrations, organizations, and other ideas dedicated to POC is a response to centuries of being discredited, dehumanized, and defunct from white society. If white people in history would’ve recognize our humanity and be civil with POC from day one, there wouldn’t have been a need for BHM, the NAACP, and whatever else to recognize that we matter. Those and other institutions and celebrations are our answer to white supremacy.

    A society that operates out of putting down blacks and other POC is a sick society. I don’t care how you put it. There is nothing healthy or civil about this nation if its pathologies include denial, lying, and bullying in order to keep it alive.

    Like


  109. Abagond,
    Your blog sure does attract racist trolls!
    Why come here to spew hatred?
    They know they’re out numbered.

    Like


  110. We are talking about a readily identifiable trait here, the color of someone’s sking. It is that simple!

    Like


  111. Brothawolf said:

    “Our history, our achievements, our identities, and even our very own humanity is concerned for the sake of making whites seem superior. ”

    Damn…
    You took the words out of my mouth…

    Like


  112. The main reason I think that “black history” isn’t taught is that in HS history in general is superficial. There isn’t time for more than indoctrination into the American mythos.

    Truthbetold, if that’s how you feel, why are you still here (assuming you are)?

    Like


  113. @ leigh

    Thanks for the education. It’s amazing how much whites have hurt us all.

    Like


  114. racist? Racism comes in many forms one black one white one chinese one etc etc

    Like


  115. well sometimes you cant tell

    Like


  116. and what about Black Superitity?

    Like


  117. To my “fans”: my daughter and her Nigerian partner took two medals at the science fair I was coaching them for.

    Like


  118. thats what they do in every subject

    Like


  119. and you still wont recogainze what you have done to your own people

    Like


  120. @ mik

    Please tell us what is your purpose for being here?
    You seem to make statements directed to noone in particular that seem to vasilate between colour blind racism and direct racism.

    Like


  121. Truthbetold

    White self- servitude, pride and self-hatred are and forever will be the foundation of the demise of our civilization.
    Slavery was and continues to be such a driving force in this nation, it’s impossible now to undo it.

    You’re right. 100%

    Until whites are put in the EXACT same catagory, stripped of their freedoms, dignity, will, humanity and sense of being, they will never know the pain they put us through.( And I have a funny feeling if they woke up tomorrow with brown skin, most would commit suicide.)

    I agree with you. I also think if they suffer from half the shit we go through everyday, they would go berserk.

    This is why they fear us, my brothers and sisters…
    They know and sense that the time is inching ever so closely to their demise.

    I hope their time is coming to an end very soon. Right now, I’m so tired of this.

    Other countries HATE white America.
    I know this personally.
    Whites are seen as a group to be feared due to MISTRUST because of their natures, admired for their SHREWDNESS and hated for their lack of compassion and INTOLERANCE!

    I’m glad we’re not alone in our sentiments.

    That’s why they demonize us all.
    That’s why they look down on us.
    That’s why they try desperately to keep us from being successful.

    It’s all about self reflection.
    Talk about being F-ed up.

    It’s beyond pathetic if you ask me. It’s like a rabid mental illness.

    Like


  122. My purpose is too tell you all everyone is racist and you DO have some good points but your wrong to say whites get there history 11 months while blacks get there one month and asians in your eyes get one month there is more then one in your eyes ASIAN race

    Like


  123. Is Doug1 using Piggy as a source of information to back up his statements? Seriously???

    Like


  124. Leigh204,

    Thanks for the link.

    Like


  125. @ Dave Lister

    You seem hot for me.
    You read all my statements, dissect them, trash them, try to prove me wrong…no?

    Listen, this blog is for coloureds, like me, who want a safe place to say as we feel, to vent, heal, learn and understand this messed up world we live in, done to us, by whites.

    Your attraction to respond to my statements is obvious.
    Why are YOU here?
    That’s the real question.
    I know why I’m here…I’ve got the bruises, scars and trauma of a lifetimes worth of white hatred to unload with my people who feel the exact same way.
    Hearing their stories and knowing that I AM NOT ALONE helps better than any therapist.

    When I was little my Sioux grandma would tell me that the devil walks on Earth.
    I know that to be a true fact now that I am an adult.

    You are inciteful.
    But then again, you ARE white.
    So I guess the two go hand in hand.

    Like


  126. That was a long non sequitar post to respond to a simple question, Truthbetold. Let me ask it another way: if where you live is not to your liking, is there someplace else that would be? If there is, why haven’t you moved there? If there isn’t, why is the US so much worse in your mind?

    I’m not telling you to go anywhere, I’m asking what you think.

    Like


  127. @ Dave

    You don’t seem to get it and perhaps, you can’t.
    Ahhhhhh….this is where I sign off.

    Night folks.

    Like


  128. @Truthbetold

    Unless you say it, nobody can get it.

    Like


  129. The alternative of course is to simply run….

    Like


  130. well truthbetold I am truely sorry for what those people did to you but I had the same with black people with scars wounds from them. No the two do not go hand in hand you must realize there are good white and black and mixed and everybody out there

    Like


  131. well why dont you teach people? teach people the black struggle but there has been good things and bad things about the black experience. Just like my family its been good and bad. if you watched I think it was wife swap they had god warrior and Abashe or something like that and his friend Conrad. conrad told him tell her about the black experience instead of having all this hate

    Like


  132. No one should have the feeling of running but we must discuss this and to understand one another. instead of living in the past and not dealing with the future we should recognize what happened but we are the future. we are the ones who are going to write the past as we speak and as we do we are making the future for good or bad/

    Like


  133. this thread is an abomination

    Like


  134. I think Dave Lister has a point (shocking right?). For a long time, I thought integration into White society would be possible, so that we may move beyond racism. However, I am starting to change my tune. The problem, however, with segregation is that White influence is global and it doesn’t really matter where you relocate. You can be undermined and destroyed anywhere on the planet. Just look at the history of Haiti. Just research the history of the CIA in South America and Africa. Just look at how NATO forces are used to destabilize entire regions. I guess Malcom X was right, you can’t have a bloodless revolution – not even in Hollywood.

    Like


  135. why does it have to be intergration? why cant it be a blend? Malcolm X was a nut bag and racist!

    Some with Farrakan now his changing his tunes about gay and woman! what we need is understanding and to try to understand cultures

    Like


  136. @ Dave Lister

    “The main reason I think that “black history” isn’t taught is that in HS history in general is superficial. There isn’t time for more than indoctrination into the American mythos.”

    High School history being superficial is highly irrelevant to the point Abagond was making, and is a Red Herring. There “not being any time” for whites to be non-biased with their “Marvel Comics Presents” version of American history seems like a very convenient excuse. If you were just going to be an apologist for troubling white pathologies, then you should have just come out and admit it. But don’t try to dishonestly act as if white’s hands are tied, and “this is the best they can do”. That’s complete and utter nonsense.

    Like


  137. @ Mik

    Because “blending” is the last thing that white people want. Come to think of it, they are actually the loudest to cry about this, when you see how they complain about being drowned out by “those dark people” moving into the countries that they are numerous in. If white people actually wanted a blend, then they would have embraced Hispanics with open arms, since they are a blend of Euro and non-Euro cultures.

    But this isn’t the case with white people, since even Stevie Wonder can see how hostile they are towards them…

    Like


  138. @Franklin

    Do get over your silly combativeness. I was pointing out that the history most people have been taught and know is a very small subset of even “white” history. Until one gets into more specific courses on specific eras, the goal of history in HS is simply to provide a common mythology and indoctrination into citizenship. I’m not apologizing for it, merely pointing out a fact that it is superficial coverage in general.

    @SomeGuy

    I didn’t really have a point. I know there are countries I would prefer to live in than the US, but haven’t found a way to do so yet but I have visited a lot. As far as destabilization is concerned, while there are many cases of it, there are also many cases of countries that are screwed up all by themselves. I would put Haiti in the second category.

    Like


  139. Truthbetold,

    “Our history, our achievements, our identities, and even our very own humanity is concerned for the sake of making whites seem superior. ”

    I’m sorry. I meant to say ‘censored’.

    Our histories been suppressed at the same time we are told who we are by people who THINK they know who they themselves are. And everything they tell about us is usually NEGATIVE. It’s as if to say your color is a birth defect in their minds. Your mistakes matter more than your accomplishments to them. This is no exaggeration.

    On the other hand, the opposite is promoted for themselves ad nauseum. They can’t get enough of seeing themselves as “regular” or superior people. But, this is part of the sickness. This society comforts the sons and daughters of the true oppressors while they continuously barbarize the sons and daughters of the true victims.

    This is beyond comprehension.

    Like


  140. @ Dave Lister

    Get over yourself idiot. If you don’t like someone casually “lassoing the conversation” back towards the original point of the article, while pointing out that you were being dishonest from the start, that’s not my fault. Since we’re now cleared up on that, I should in all honesty point out that you’re still being an apologist. Looking at the way you chose (again) not to say that the way white people deal with HS history is wrong, and that it needs to be changed.

    Like


  141. But isnt that every country Dave? I mean every country doesnt study other countries and world history as well as there own history Plus there isnt any info on the Klan and Black Panthers Aryan Brotherhood Mexican Mafia Russian Mafia etc etc

    Like


  142. But Brotha thats in every culture Australia wouldnt allow Abornigals the right to land South American whites wouldnt allow there natives to do things. Its the haves and have nots not about race so much as the majority versus the minority. As Such I DO agree we need more diversity with everyone not just black but also french Spanish English Welsh Scottish etc etc. It took years for the Lost Generation for the Austrailan goverment to recogize what they did. racism is still there but it has changed a tad. Japanese people have yet to recogize the Anui who were white people living in Japan they were the first settlers and now the Japanese people are saying your a minority and there saying no we are the orginal people of Japan and any Japanese person doesnt want to have a blonde blue eyed Grandson because they are racist.

    Like


  143. @ Dave Lister

    As far as destabilization is concerned, while there are many cases of it, there are also many cases of countries that are screwed up all by themselves. I would put Haiti in the second category.

    How so? Haiti won their revolution only to be forced to pay reparations for winning. This was enforced not just by France, but also her allies who used embargoes and other underhanded tactics. After decades, the Haitians managed to pay off this BS debt only to be forced into ANOTHER debt.

    Furthermore, the U.S. destroyed the agriculture industry while introducing dependency on U.S. assistance. For example, the U.S. killed off the indigenous Haitian pig which was a hearty breed, and supplanted it with swine that could not survive in Haiti’s hot climate without special accommodations, which were supplied by America to Haiti at a cost.

    Also, the U.S. supported dictator Papa Doc and even gave him military assistance against those who would try to overthrow him. It isn’t until decades after the damage was done until the U.S. turned on Papa Doc.

    So, tell me again how the Haitians screwed themselves up?

    Like


  144. http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=38159 Lost generation both groups hated them

    Like


  145. Franklin isnt history being rewritten all the time since we have discovered new things about history. Like Sally Hemmings and Thomas Jefferson.

    Like


  146. @ Mik

    That was my point exactly. Which is why Dave’s claims that “they don’t have time” is nonsense.

    Like


  147. @ SomeGuy


    @ Mik

    “Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra.”

    “Shaka, when the walls fell.”

    “Temba, his arms wide!”

    That is one of my favourite Star Trek episodes!

    Like


  148. @ brothawolf

    “A society that operates out of putting down blacks and other POC is a sick society. I don’t care how you put it. There is nothing healthy or civil about this nation if its pathologies include denial, lying, and bullying in order to keep it alive.”

    Amen!

    Like


  149. @ Darq, Truth, etc

    Why I think people like Dave Lister, Doug1, Randy Garver, No_Slappz (banned), etc come here:

    In the back of their minds there is some crawling doubt that I might be right. So they come here and oppose what I have to say. They think they are having a debate, but since they mostly just use the mantra argument and move goal posts as needed (like when Doug1 made Indiana part of the South), they always “win”. Yet at some level they know they did not win. So they come back. Because the doubt has not been killed off.

    If you notice, there is never any growth or learning on their part.

    For Doug1 the American North will always be pretty much unracist, no matter how many lynchings I show or how many sundown towns and white suburbs I list or how many Sean Bells, Aiyana Jones and Ramarley Grahams I do posts on.

    And for Randy, America will always be Bootstrap Heaven no matter how many posts I do about racism against Asian Americans.

    And so on.

    That shows that they practise pseudo-thinking, like those Holocaust Deniers and HBDers.

    The mantra argument:

    https://abagond.wordpress.com/2011/12/02/the-mantra-argument/

    Like


  150. Lol…

    Abagond… When are you going to get a new version of “black liberation?”

    It is the healthy-minded white person who will simply mock your fascinating ability to talk beside yourself. What America are YOU really engaged with? How many whites do YOU know that have actually mentioned George Washington or Patrick Henry anytime lately and exclaimed,”these great white men were freedom fighters.”

    Come on, man…

    These diatribes are old, dusty and crusty. When are you going to bring something more busty? Something more thick with substance? You think you’re battling while sitting on the fence. You gotta gang of anti-American foreigners stewing in your cyberspace… Trying to make things more tense. Does this make sense that a cat like Abagond can be so incensed about a country that isn’t even his? Brewing a pot with pop shots, BWEs, and snot nose “liberated” have-nots. Maximizing your autonomy while putting ignorant lil black kids in headlocks. These fools walk around with dreadlocks… Don’t get hired. And Abagond cries rain drops. Then drops another post and pulls all the same stops. White man bad and black man had… Get it American black man… Abagond gotchu by the head. Paralyzed by “black liberation” version 1.dead.

    Like


  151. @ Thordaddy

    You need to read my posts as written. You are the one who flattens and squeezes and bends the corners my opinions so that they can fit into one of your two or three boxes of How Black People Think.

    Like


  152. @ Brothawolf

    “Our histories been suppressed at the same time we are told who we are by people who THINK they know who they themselves are. And everything they tell about us is usually NEGATIVE. It’s as if to say your color is a birth defect in their minds. Your mistakes matter more than your accomplishments to them. This is no exaggeration.”

    I co-sign that too!

    Like


  153. Dave Lister said:

    “The main reason I think that “black history” isn’t taught is that in HS history in general is superficial. There isn’t time for more than indoctrination into the American mythos.”

    Interesting how he says “American mythos” instead of “White American mythos”. He sees that it is brainwashing and yet is still brainwashed at a profound level.

    Like


  154. @ Thordaddy

    Please stay on topic or go to the Open Thread.

    Like


  155. It would have been easier on the eyes and less time consuming for Thordaddy to just say “Negroes! Be glad for all that whites have done for you!” Which is a head scratcher, because I don’t know why he’s so (apparently) sore about Abagond bringing up dangerous white pathologies (going by his use of “black slang” in a taunting manner), since he’s just another W.I.N.O. Hispanic. Which isn’t really white in the context that matters. No matter how hard he tries to score brownie points with “actual” whites, by being against blacks.

    But then again, context seems lost on him, since he can’t even use the phrase “white privilege” in the correct one.

    Like


  156. Regarding the white people touting their history as great, I am reminded of people with huge egos who seem to think they are better than everyone else. What they do or say is important. These people tend to talk about their greatness in such a way as to make themselves sound better than those around them. All that spells out is insecurity. The more they try to push down everyone else, the more you see the insecurity.

    Like


  157. on Thu 9 Feb 2012 at 12:42:09 Jack in the Box

    I think they call it the crab mentality.

    Like


  158. Whatever the mentality, they have crabs.😉

    Like


  159. Darqbeauty—

    I am puzzled as to how he expects us to respond to his European superiority fixation. Are we supposed to agree? Then what? Maybe I am thick skulled but I do not understand his presence if he is not a troll. Can someone help me with this? Because I am confounded to say the least.

    It’s typical female herd instinct behavior to want to exclude anyone who disagrees much with a group consensus. Most men don’t respect that very much, and rather look down on it, or they do if they’ve taken the red pill and freed themselves from total immersion in feminist propaganda.

    The proper definition of a troll is someone who seeks to disrupt discussions with contrary opinions ventured forth just for the sport of it, manufactured for that sole purpose, or solely to get attention, rather than someone who honestly has reasonably consistent contrary opinions. Extending the meaning to the later is thought censorship, which feminist sites do all the time, and some even admit to doing so in their comments policies. Really that’s intellectual totalitarianism.

    Like


  160. @ Abagond, Brothawolf, Leigh, etc

    Morning all.

    Reading the comments here are amazing.
    Let me collect my thoughts before I begin. Why is it that any criticism of white America is seen as anti-American by whites?

    “You gotta gang of anti-American foreigners stewing in your cyberspace… Trying to make things more tense. Does this make sense that a cat like Abagond can be so incensed about a country that isn’t even his?”

    WOW.
    WOW.

    A gang?
    GANG?!

    Let me make this clear to our white readers…YOU are the original gangsters!
    Any gang related activity people of colour commit, we’ve learned from you.

    Trying to make things more tense?
    The tenseness began when you committed the most vilest of sins for which you can never repay.

    A cat like Abagond?
    What is that, exactly?
    Black ghetto, jazz-era slang?

    A country that isn’t even his?

    Let me take a deep breath, lest I lose my mind this morning.
    A group of men, come here, on a boat. They know NOTHING about survival in this new and strange world.

    My ancestors ( grandma) taught them everything…how to build houses, catch food, cook on an open fire which white people stole and called barbeque, showed them which herbs from Mother Nature cures illness, which white people bottled and called medicine and grew RICH, how to skin animals to make clothes, which whites stole and called Fur coats and got RICH, and essentially, how to SURVIVE!!!

    Bloody hell!
    If anything, we people of colour are the ones who own this bloody country because we are the ones who created it!

    Why don’t whites get the hell off our land?
    You know why they are so angry at us? Because they can’t survive without our help.
    I took a mental break from whites about 3 years ago. It was the best thing that ever happened to me.

    The poision that they spew, intentionally, my brothers and sisters, is like ivy…First it’s a discomfort, then an itch, then, you are desperate to get rid of the dirty sensation.

    Assholes.

    Like


  161. the entertainment industry is a camp follower to the ruling infrastructure, which basically clings to the gerrymandered idea of ‘whiteness’, all the things malcom x wrote about the moral frissons etc

    not all white people here we go again are ‘one’ with the idea of blue blood nobility, and with the recession, the suffering is all around us

    @darqbeauty I get what you’re saying about post-colonialism.

    Like


  162. Herneith—

    Another font of hilarity! The Romans conquered Greece! The Greeks did not ‘impart’ their culture willingly!

    Such arrogance combined with so little knowledge. Seems to be the general rule around here. Yes the Romans did conquer Greece. Well before that Greeks came to Rome for pay as tutors for Roman elite children, etc. As well though some Greeks were taken as slaves to Roman households after the conquest, they tended to be very well treated ones, or at least educated Greeks were, and again served as tutors, secretaries, advisers and so on.

    Like


  163. i don’t know what W.I.N.O. means

    Like


  164. Roman gods were by and large renamed Greek ones, with some Roman additions. That went WAY back into early Roman history.

    Rome was probably founded by former residents of Troy or the surrounding area, whose city was within the Greek cultural orbit.

    Like


  165. Whites haven’t been at the forefront of most of human history or civilization, they just wrote and then taught it that way. As more discoveries were made the more “white” everyone got. “Scholars” didn’t consider Russians, Eastern , or Southern Europeans to be white until it was convenient. I will say that whites have been on the forefront of Spin and Propaganda especially when it came to the idea of African isolation, linguistics, and Race. Until the mid 60’s white high school and college faculty simply failed students who made African history a topic of their assignments because to them there was “no such thing”.

    Like


  166. JT—

    If competition were a social reality you wouldn’t have trust fund children cruising through harvard while those in urban communities have to scrimp and save through two jobs to get their child into a half-decent college.

    That’s beyond idiotic.

    It assumes people are born with equal natural abilities. They aren’t. They aren’t within races and they aren’t across races.

    Furthermore the vast majority of trust fund 18 year olds can’t and don’t get into Harvard. The number of actual trust fund youth out there is also vastly exaggerated in the popular resentful mind, especially the black resentful mind, it seems. Trust funds are only created by high achieving high IQ fathers (almost never mothers, except by inheritance from a father or husband), who tend to have, but don’t always have, smart offspring.

    There is the genetic and statistical phenomenon of regression to the racial mean in intelligence though, so kids of exceptionally bright and talented parents tend to be less so. Generally about half way from the parent’s average IQ to their racial average IQ. Actually it’s not their racial average IQ technically, but rather their ancestral average IQ, heavily weighted towards closer in time direct ancestors, but the racial average IQ is a semi decent approximation. The exact amount of regression however is also statistically distributed along a bell curve, with the center of that curve being about half way to the ancestral mean.

    Most wealthy people do pay full freight for the children’s private education and give them very comfortable lifestyles both when at home and when away to college and professional or graduate school, yes. However most don’t want to obviate incentives for their kids to achieve. Trust funds tend to do that.

    Like


  167. @ WarrenAZ

    Exactly.
    Self-serving liars…

    Like


  168. @Abagond

    You are intentionally missing the point (again). The mythos is “designed” to create a sense of union among the majority of those being taught – which happen to be white students. The history taught is American history with a superficial level of fact selected for the purpose, and said brain-washing wouldn’t be served by inclusion of significant amounts of fact that are historical negatives.

    Save the rhetoric.

    Like


  169. @Franklin

    Go soak your head – it’s overheated. HS history may in fact need to be changed, but I am not going to design a new curriculum here as for one I’m busy. Any changes made will need to fit the format while still achieving in some sense a unifying mythos among the majority of students – which may not be you. Feel free to post what specifically what you think should be taught, keeping in mind time constraints and the desire to stay positive by those teaching.

    Stating facts doesn’t imply approval, difficult in your “black and white world”, I know.

    Like


  170. Abagond said:

    In the back of their minds there is some crawling doubt that I might be right.

    Don’t be so modest. Personally, I have rather open doubts and believe that my current opinions may fall before superior truths. I welcome, and even seek that result. Everyone should.

    Abagond said:

    And for Randy, America will always be Bootstrap Heaven no matter how many posts I do about racism against Asian Americans.

    Perhaps you misunderstand my beliefs about “bootstrapping”. I’m not suggesting that it’s the best way forward, but for all practical purposes, it’s the only way forward, and has been since the dawn of time.

    Given that no other reasonable alternatives exist, one ought to endeavor to orient socioeconomically poor people towards it, illustrating the practices and beliefs which will enable them to have the best chances to escape poverty.

    Like


  171. @Truthbetold

    “My ancestors ( grandma) taught them everything…how to build houses, catch food,”

    Rubbish. White people were living just fine on their own doing all these things without your ancestors teaching them anything. What they learned were some specifics to the Americas, such a plant life.

    “cook on an open fire which white people stole and called barbeque,”

    Stole? How does one steal a recipe? What really upsets you is how whites adapt and use whatever they encounter of value. That is maybe a primary ability of “whites” – adaptability.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbeque

    “showed them which herbs from Mother Nature cures illness, which white people bottled and called medicine and grew RICH”

    Only those specific to the Americas.

    “how to skin animals to make clothes, which whites stole and called Fur coats and got RICH,

    You’re right, animals weren’t skinned and fur coats weren’t worn before white man came to the Americas. snicker.

    “and essentially, how to SURVIVE!!!”

    Yeah, the white man was in danger of dying out before they were “taught”.

    “If anything, we people of colour are the ones who own this bloody country because we are the ones who created it!”

    True, most whites sat around and ate bon-bons while “PoCs” did ALL the work. That would be news to those who created in places where no PoCs existed, or where the PoCs were unjustifiably and immorally forced out of the way, right?

    “You know why they are so angry at us? Because they can’t survive without our help.”

    It actually appears to be the other way around.

    Like


  172. @SomeGuy

    http://www.webster.edu/~corbetre/haiti/misctopic/pigs/gaertner.htm

    No doubt that the US, France, and others have messed in Haiti, but I don’t think that explains the difference in conditions between the Dominican Republic and Haiti on the same island. (Note that the native Haitians no longer exist.)

    Like


  173. @ Thomas

    W.I.N.O. = “White In Name Only”

    @ Dave Lister

    HS history may in fact need to be changed, but I am not going to design a new curriculum here as for one I’m busy.

    Learn to reply without first resorting to a strawman. I never said you should create a new curriculum, so that was a very stupid and quite telling way to begin a response. The rest of your post is related to the aforementioned stupidity and I won’t even bother responding to it, because like you, it’s irrelevant to this discussion.

    Like


  174. @ Dave Lister

    And you linking Wikipedia in response to Truth mentioning BBQ didn’t refute anything. It only reinforced his earlier claim. Once again, you show your inability to grasp the simplest of contexts.

    Like


  175. @Franklin

    You are funny, not to mention a creator of irony. So far your posts have amounted to nothing but personal attacks, devoid of any content whatsoever. The irony comes when you call others stupid and irrelevant as a result of your own ineptitude.

    You won’t bother responding because quite simply you don’t have the capability to do more than rant.

    Like


  176. @ Dave Lister

    So is that unifying mythos racist?

    Like


  177. what happened in that episode? yeah I liked how there was biracial space aliens only if we could get it in real life! LOL

    Like


  178. @Dave Lister

    And yet, you still can’t refute what I’ve said. But do use your outrage as a handy excuse not to respond, instead of just admitting what we all see. Which is that you can’t refute my points.

    Like


  179. @Franklin

    The problem is your contexts are too simple for the normal mind, being classic cases of reductio ad ridiculum.

    I wasn’t trying to refute anything with the link – there was nothing to the claim of “stole” but silliness. I just thought the article was interesting. If there is error, fix it. Anyone can edit Wikipedia articles.

    Like


  180. @Franklin

    When you actually make a point, I may or may not refute it. I doubt you have the capability.

    Like


  181. you do have good points but not everything you say is right. I do agree people are scared of the white culture and black culture.

    Like


  182. @Abagond

    Not intentionally, but it could well be inadvertently. I think how much the teaching of it is racist varies by location, teacher, book used, etc. One problem with history among other subjects is the weight Texas has with the publishers of textbooks – not exactly a place known for a balanced perspective

    The “lies” are _primarily_ of omission, not commission, and I would be interested in what changes are proposed to remedy this within the constraints which may exist.

    Like


  183. @ Dave Lister

    All you’re doing is continuing to dodge…

    But whatever gets you out of a discussion, I suppose.

    Like


  184. well what about the black mythos the black history is all oral and I have nothing oral but thats what it is its all oral there is no factual information out there. where are the facts. There is a kernal of truth of what you say but facts are facts

    Like


  185. @ Dave Lister

    You are a funny, singular man.
    You are so caught up in your own lies you really believe the things you say.

    How…frightening.

    Like


  186. @Truthbetold

    So be frightened. Your fear of facts is not my problem, neither is the mythology you’ve built in your head.

    Like


  187. Well what about blacks? they use race and an excuse to not be educated and to go to college. Because thats the white mans world. why is it even today blacks feel they cant move on but yet there is a black president in there eyes?

    Like


  188. “It’s typical female herd instinct behavior to want to exclude anyone who disagrees much with a group consensus. Most men don’t respect that very much, and rather look down on it, ”

    LMBAO!!! What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? Hmmm females have “herd” behaviors…but aren’t most societies built on some kind of basic need to homogenize the civilization? What does that have to do with your presence here? I am not asking about female “herding instincts”. And I wasn’t speaking to you. Please feel free to continue your discussion without including me in it. I have no wish to converse with you when your motives for being here are as murky as a muddy pool. Thanks.

    On a side note, this thread is SUPER entertaining.

    Like


  189. First there is no brain washing unless we allow it. Second Its only neagative if we view that way. You still consider a person who has obivously white blood and black blood light skinned there are no light skinned black people if there are there are also dark skinned whites. When you realize no one is stopping you but yourself then the black culture will move on

    Like


  190. Dave the European settlers learned about surving from the Native Americans. But the Europeans did have things to offer the Native Americans

    Like


  191. of course and yet your still in the slave mentality

    Like


  192. Exactly and thats part of there down fall

    Like


  193. @ Dave Lister

    It’s always relevant when it comes to a white, such as yourself. Therein lies the problem.

    Like


  194. @ Mik

    It helps if you start your responses with “@ (Insert Name Here)” like we all do. I don’t like having to guess who you’re responding to.

    Like


  195. Black & White is just an undesired illusion in the mind of perverted. Beauty is always within & colorless. Appreciate the beauty of the soul in any individual. Outer beauty is just an illusion & inner beauty is the truty.

    Like


  196. @ darqbeauty

    yes, I too get entertainment from whites. Sometimes. The rest of the time, it’s like fingernails against a chalkboard.

    @ mik

    Keep believing that.
    Maybe, just maybe, one day, it will be true.
    Oh, and the only thing the Europeans offered my natives was smallpox.

    @ dave lister

    Willful ignorance is such a terrible disease.
    But when you pair that ignorance with made up facts…well…that’s deadly.
    I don’t need to tell you that, just look at the world you’ve created.
    I won’t respond to you anymore.
    I have better things to do, like watching the paint in my kitchen dry.

    Like


  197. on Thu 9 Feb 2012 at 17:39:58 sanabituranima

    Haven’t commented on here in a while, but this is all very true.

    Doug1 – the truth isn’t racist, but what you’re saying is not the truth. Your version of “everything important is racistly skewed. Are you really saying that nothing in Africa, Asia or Latin America in the last 500 years has been important.

    “Egyptians, Middle Easterners and early man, meanwhile, become honorary whites for particular periods of history.”

    This is very, very true. And sad.

    I also think (as someone who’s in the final year of a Classics degree) that there’s a massive tendency to whiten ancient history. This is seen in the way Greeks and Romans are emphasised over Egypt and the Middle East and just generally in putting the idea of whiteness in a time when it didn’t exist. I mean, obviously white skin existed in those times, but the modern idea of whiteness didn’t. The Romans thought in terms of citizens and non-citizens. There were black, Romanised Africans (including one emperor, Septimus Severus.) But the history books have whitened Rome.

    Like


  198. on Thu 9 Feb 2012 at 17:40:26 J Michael Lodman

    @Mik

    No doubt some of the urban dwelling immigrants did, To state that as even a majority of settlers is simply false.

    Like


  199. Truth the only way we will get equality is when we all believe and fight for equality for all. No there was more and you have to search for it. Well we as people have to search for the truth! Like Black DNA like chinese DNA. I personally would love to know more about my dads side since his father come from the ship Nanking and my grandmothers records were destoryed in the San Francisco fires or so the story goes. Because each of us has a story to tell. Some of our ancestors were slaves others were slave owners and others they were slave and master lovers others it was rape or like cattle. But lets not be blind to the facts.

    Like


  200. Sanabituranima! Wow, long time, no hear! I agree with you about the ancients:

    https://abagond.wordpress.com/2010/03/28/how-white-was-ancient-greece/

    Like


  201. then why was there no chinese or Japanese in the middle ages? only black and white? are you telling me the chinese stayed only in China? Well if you read a book there was a eunuch who traveled the globe and it was factual whats sketchy is some of the places he want. I am sure the Roman empire had chinese slaves but since people dont want that we dont have that. If you read up on chinese history you will see the bone structure of the Native americans is very similar to Chinese and Japanese people. they look very much alike. Its rumored Chinese people were in the new world before columbus set his feet down on he new world. The chinese migrated to North America and South America and I am SURE the Roman Empire.

    Like


  202. well we dont know because alot of people like to not want to know history or tell people we were the ones who did that. Chinese made the fireworks but they allow someone else to take the fame

    Like


  203. on Thu 9 Feb 2012 at 17:52:20 J Michael Lodman

    @Franklin

    Of course – exactly an argument a racist of any color would use.

    @Truthbetold

    Rant and Run.

    @sanabituranima

    I’m not sure what is meant by “honorary whites”. I’m also not sure what is meant by “whitening history”. It was “European history”, which for a number of periods the middle east and Egypt were a part (of the empires). In Asia they teach Asian history, which overlaps with European history at times, just as African history does. Most all cultures center themselves in history.

    Attempting to “blackwash” history is no answer to white-washing whatever you think is wrong with the history being taught, nor is denying that for most of the Roman era the Latin tribe comprised the dominant power structure in Rome. The busts of people made during these times are quite clear on what these people were generally.

    Cleopatra is an example of some trying to “blackwash” history.

    Like


  204. on Thu 9 Feb 2012 at 17:56:04 J Michael Lodman

    @Mik

    “Fireworks” – The history books I read clearly assign the invention of gunpowder to China.

    Like


  205. @ J Michael Lodman

    And Saint Maurice is an example of some trying to “whiten history:,

    Like


  206. all history tries to wash it self out the Japanese say about atom bomb we were not at fault america was. both Japan and America was at fault america said sorry but did Japan say sorry for attucking pearl harbor NO.

    Like


  207. well Micheal did you know China explored america before Columbus? chinese dont want to claim that. Did you also know about Mao He was a tyrant but since he focused on CHINESE then people left him alone.

    Like


  208. on Thu 9 Feb 2012 at 18:10:50 J Michael Lodman

    @Franklin
    I don’t know if he was black or not. Apparently the oldest surviving image of him as black was from 900+ years after his death. One university says:

    “Because his name is related to Latin Maurus, “Moor,” St. Maurice is often portrayed as a black African. He is usually shown in armor, as at left, and sometimes carries a banner with a cross or an imperial emblem.”

    On-line one sees a mix of both images. He may well have been black, I don’t know. Without an image from his time or his gravesite, who can tell?

    Like


  209. on Thu 9 Feb 2012 at 18:14:49 J Michael Lodman

    @Mik
    I know of the first, at least about a landing 72 years before Columbus. This is a more recent finding, and hardly the fault of white history. The Chinese were powerful on the oceans at that time.As far as Mao is concerned, I’m not sure I understand your point.

    Like


  210. @ J Michael Lodman

    There’s more pointing to him being black than white. Most Europeans even attest to this, when you look at their royal seals. That black image of him was the oldest surviving depiction PERIOD, not just “the oldest of him simply being black”. And I highly doubt there was much debate over such things back then, since racism was almost a completely alien concept before the 1700’s.That page btw, has been subjected to ignorant white people (because who else would do such a thing) trying to erase all traces of him being black, for years.

    Like


  211. @ Dave Lister

    The difference between Haiti and D.R. is that the Dominican Republic was purposefully marketed by their Present Rafael Trujillo as a White country so that Europeans would come and settle and also cultivate D.R. as a tourist spot, which it is today. This is also the same president who ordered troops to slaughter thousands of Haitians in the infamous Parsley Massacre. Furthermore, contemporary Dominicans took their Black and mixed revolutionaries and made them White in their tributary statues. Their willingness to reject all things “Black” allows them to be accepted and nurtured by White countries. Not all Dominicans are like this, but enough of them are to make the situation what it is today.

    I’m not saying the Haitians are blameless in the state of their country. I’m saying they had more than helping hand in the ruination of their nation.

    Like


  212. My point is Michael that people and families try to cover up the truth of history. Chinese people have covered up what Mao did to his own people that book that was published is banned in China. Therefore the Chinese are living in ignorance.

    Like


  213. How do we know he was all black? I look more white then mixed so therefore I am white? come on. Race is very complex and just because a person that we are describing doesnt mean he has to have full lips and kinky curly hair

    Like


  214. @Mik

    I don’t know about “explored” but some historians think that it was likely. What physical evidence is there? There is no evidence they stayed. The people who crossed the Bering Strait did so many thousands of years before even the beginning of Chinese history.

    Mao?

    Like


  215. @SomeGuy

    “I’m not saying the Haitians are blameless in the state of their country. I’m saying they had more than helping hand in the ruination of their nation.”

    No doubt. It seems that deforestation may be their biggest current problem after the earthquake though. I would think Haiti could compete with Jamaica as a tourist destination with the right things in place.

    Anyway we’re way off the subject.

    Like


  216. Mik

    “But Brotha thats in every culture Australia wouldnt allow Abornigals the right to land South American whites wouldnt allow there natives to do things. Its the haves and have nots not about race so much as the majority versus the minority. As Such I DO agree we need more diversity with everyone not just black but also french Spanish English Welsh Scottish etc etc. It took years for the Lost Generation for the Austrailan goverment to recogize what they did. racism is still there but it has changed a tad. Japanese people have yet to recogize the Anui who were white people living in Japan they were the first settlers and now the Japanese people are saying your a minority and there saying no we are the orginal people of Japan and any Japanese person doesnt want to have a blonde blue eyed Grandson because they are racist.”

    That doesn’t mean we don’t have a right to express our anger and frustration. Besides, two or a thousand wrongs don’t make one right, nor do they excuse the wrongs STILL being one today.

    Like


  217. @ Brothawolf

    Most respectfully, recent DNA test have found that the Ainu are not Caucasoid but of the same mongloid type as the Amerindians and Mongolia.:) Carry on.

    Like


  218. White privilege…

    Black liberation…

    If these aren’t the topics, what are the topics?

    Your standard excuse to censor is getting lame.

    Like


  219. @ the white commentors:

    This site, in your minds, is like a drug.
    You are addicted to it because it resonates with you, it speaks to you on only a level you can truly understand.

    You feel the need to explain, almostly desperately, that you are not evil, not vile, not racist, not deserving of a blog where coloureds speak the known truth about your hidden ( sort of ) nature.

    Under all the false bravado, half-truths and desperate searches on wikipedia, et al, to ” prove us poor, helpless, downtrodden, coloured folks wrong “, you know that we speak the profound truth of who you are.

    And you hate that.
    Remember that your culture, whatever the F that is, was built on a foundation of lies. So we understand the truth hurts. Poor dears…

    If we were uneducated and poorly spoken, that would be all too easy for you.
    So you pick THIS site, with mostly well-educated, university, middle-class, well-traveled, articulate coloureds to antagonize.

    Who are you fooling?
    Not us.
    We’ve been on to you for over 450 years.
    We know your every move…you’ve become THAT predictable.
    (I was waiting for some white guy to mention his ” black” friend, neighbor, co-worker, etc.)

    Give it up.
    Your time is coming to an end…slowly but surely.
    And you all know that.

    Like


  220. Darqbeauty

    “Most respectfully, recent DNA test have found that the Ainu are not Caucasoid but of the same mongloid type as the Amerindians and Mongolia. Carry on.”

    Thanks for the correction.

    Like


  221. Then Darq why do they look white? did you know in the Hmongs they have some of there children are blonde and blued eyed. http://seaif.typepad.com/seaif_weblog/images/2008/02/02/hmong_ny_girls_a3.jpg I just wish they would have more biracial diverse families. Before my nephew get older his hair was bleach blonde! my dad who is chinese was amazed and so I was but he lost the blonde hair.

    Like


  222. Truth not all history was false/ Some of it was the truth and some was exaggrated.

    Like


  223. @Truthbetold

    Whatever fantasy makes you feel better I suppose. Even the insane have free speech.

    Like


  224. I just think it’s sad that some people are not humble enough to consider that there’s a hint of a possibility that what they know about history and society is not the whole story let alone the truth.

    Like what so many others including Abagond have said about this and other blogs for the marginalized, it is to seek sanctuary from the troubles of living in a white, male, heterosexual, able-bodied, (pseudo) Christian, American supremacist society. They are perfect places where we can voice our thoughts and vent our frustrations, and nobody (at least at forethought) would make us feel low for having such emotions.

    But then, here come those same people with the kind of mentality we want to get away from, and before you know it, they mostly and relentlessly remind us of why we dislike this society in the first damn place.

    Here’s the deal, naysayers, as far as this topic goes, white people, as a whole, have the most of everything. Individually, it’s not the same. Yes. Some whites are poor. Some whites are unemployed. And some whites get shortchanged by the government. HOWEVER, the white man’s version of history is still taught and valued above everyone else’s. How else would you explain the recent ban on ethnic studies in Arizona? The only – ONLY logical explanation is that they want everyone to learn about the so-called accomplishments of white people.

    And even if there wasn’t such a ban, most of today’s history schoolbooks will STILL teach the accomplishments of white people where POC are mentioned, at the most, a few times throughout the entire book.

    Yet, white people still want a White History Month or, as recently heard in the news, a White People Day? Come on, son!!!

    It’s like saying that you want more and more until EVERYTHING is about you and only you. The hell with other people. Let the black people who whine about this go back to Africa or let the Native Americans go f*ck themselves.

    This is why we have months and holidays that celebrate POC because before then, it was always about white people. Is it too much to ask for us to celebrate who we are without some white person telling us how racist it is overlooking the fact that this society favors white racism from day one? Is it wrong for us to tell our side of the story without someone saying that it doesn’t matter because it’s in the past, but will celebrate the 4th of July? And why must we learn about your historical figures and “heroes”, but you don’t have to learn about those of POC? On that note, what makes some of you think that there are no important POC in history?

    Think about it.

    This is the whole damn point of this topic. This is why this blog, my blog, and other blogs like ours exist. We are not anti-white. We are anti-whiteness, the social, economic, political, and psychological powers that support white supremacy. This is not against the white race, but this is against white supremacy. Those are two different matters. But if you support white supremacy in any and all forms, then this blog is anti-YOU. Period.

    Like


  225. @ Brothawolf:

    “But then, here come those same people with the kind of mentality we want to get away from, and before you know it, they mostly and relentlessly remind us of why we dislike this society in the first damn place.”

    Damn!
    You are good.
    Give them hell.

    I’d also like to add that if we are ” wrong ” and so silly to even question them, why take the time, energy and effort to ” educate ” us?

    Like


  226. @brothawolf:

    *applause*

    EXCELLENT comments as always.😀

    Like


  227. @ Leigh, Abagond, Brothawolf, et al…

    ” They are missing something. There is a coldness in that race. Not in every individual, no, but those who are able to feel the warmth of empathy and kindness have to work really hard to get there, because everything about the culture beats it out of them.

    They’re like a race of depressed people, that’s what I realized. Depressed emotions, only flaring up in anger from time to time but when it does wooo it’s scary. They try to be channel that anger in the approved situations, such as with a gun and a badge. We blacks are too passionate, too “animalistic”, too “irrational” for them. They claim we are too sensitive but they are the ones who react so defensively at every perceived prick. I look at some of the white defenders who comment on this blog and they seem off their rocker to me.

    No, they’re not really cold and dead, they just can’t allow themselves to go where they need to go and to feel what they need to feel, and they deflect that any way they can. They must stay separate from us physically, mentally, and emotionally, they must exist in a permanent state of segregation in every way in order to maintain the facade that everything’s okay. They cannot allow themselves to feel anything for us, because if they do then the whole dam will break.”

    This was written by another commenter about whites and her observation of them. WOW.
    I used to think that I was the only one who thought that whites were missing something.

    A soul.
    A heart.
    The ability to feel…raw emotion, raw pain…something human and deeply visceral that brings you closer to God and mother nature.

    No wonder they attach themselves to our culture, food, music, clothes, churches…to us.
    No wonder our accomplishments in history get downplayed…
    We are secretly EVERYTHING they aspire to become.

    Like


  228. @brothawolf

    Black history month doesn’t bother me any more than a gay pride parade does. Both are entirely acceptable in America. I also don’t want a white history month or day, as it seems rather pointless to me given that in a white majority country whites comprise the majority of that history. I don’t think it is wrong to point out that history taught tends to point out the positive and sweep the negative under the rug, and to ignore contributions from non-mainstream people. The history of this country is no where near as positive as it is advertised to others. A serious examination would benefit everyone in the world if the US became less arrogant.

    However the tendency seems to be to go overboard in the opposite direction, witness Truthbetold’s posts. What purpose they serve in finding a balance is a mystery even to her. I would like to be a part of a post-racial society, but I don’t think it will happen in my lifetime although great strides have been made. The only way into the future is together, so anything that attempts to divide us is to be avoided.

    Identify the people (and events) you want to be taught – Obama, Powell, Rice, King, Carver, Charles, and going back many many more people who have contributed to this country. The thing to keep in mind is that even for whites, the number of people mentioned as a proportion of the population is very small, and mostly politicians. The vast majority of whites in Europe in the middle ages weren’t knights, they were serfs. I think that there are a number of black international figures such as Mandela or ML King who will enter the history books taught with little trouble.

    Like


  229. @ Dave Lister

    Like I said…you’re hot for me.
    So damn predictable.

    I said something that rung true, that got under your skin, no?
    The brutal truth is, most whites have NO desire to be apart of some post-racial utopia.
    Why?
    Who would you kick around?
    Where would your privilege go?

    There is no “mystery” about anything. I “get it” just fine.
    It’s you who’s missing something.

    End conversation.

    Like


  230. Whiteness – demonic belief system.

    Whiteness – a religion that glorifies itself more than the Spirit of the Creator.

    Whiteness – an entity that desires to control and rule everyone, everywhere.

    Whiteness – a system based upon insatiable greed and power.

    Whiteness – an affliction of mind, soul, heart and spirit.

    Whiteness – the most virulent abnormality ever known to humankind.

    Whiteness – unchecked has the capacity to end all live on the planet.

    Like


  231. Becuase your going to try to educate us truth. you know when blacks go to Australia they think they got an ally with aborginals and actually they dont why because its different cultures

    Like


  232. truth I have seen animalistic whites and blacks! How is it not segregation when a white person wants to go too an all black school and there are snide remarks of you need to be with your own race? So your telling me there is only white and black? well I have nothing black in my house so does that mean I am racist come on!

    Like


  233. and those other countries have positive and dont dwell on the neagative but for you its always the neagative in america. this is america not Japan not china not Latin america not Mexico not africa its a america and yet those people want it too be soley Mexican soley black etc etc.

    Like


  234. matari I think your not talking out of your ass but you are! and the blacks are always going to be opressed people. I wonder if the roles were reversed what would you do? Who would you blame then for your people? Would you blame the white man or the yellow man?

    Like


  235. Truthbetold

    I’d also like to add that if we are ” wrong ” and so silly to even question them, why take the time, energy and effort to ” educate ” us?

    Exactly! It’s like if I came to a Klan meeting to convince them to stop the hatred only to end up hanging lifeless from a tree.

    Like


  236. He would blame Cthulu!

    Like


  237. @ Matari,

    I agree with your last post.

    @ Dave Lister,

    It is nice to see some sense from your posts (although some of the earlier ones in this thread were much of the usual tripe, your last one was a nice surprise).

    Like


  238. brotha well trying to edcuate you its like going to Panther meeting and beating me up and then saying I was the one who provoked the attuck

    Like


  239. @Truthbetold

    Like I said, enjoy your fantasy. It’s all you have, or likely will ever have.

    @Matari

    I didn’t know this was black supremest website.

    Like


  240. Dave Lister,

    However the tendency seems to be to go overboard in the opposite direction, witness Truthbetold’s posts. What purpose they serve in finding a balance is a mystery even to her. I would like to be a part of a post-racial society, but I don’t think it will happen in my lifetime although great strides have been made. The only way into the future is together, so anything that attempts to divide us is to be avoided.

    Truthbetold is speaking from a perspective filled with experience, wisdom, and pain, the same components that are within Abagond’s, Leigh’s, Matari’s, and Franklin’s view, and the same components understood by people like Sam and JT. We know that society and to a large extent the world is severely unbalanced in favor of white supremacy.

    I want to add that emotion is very important because POC are feeling the kind of pain that most white people do not understand. This is why whenever we do express our anger, irritation, and sadness, we don’t get a shoulder to cry on. Instead we get a slap in the face and are told to get over it. The problem is how can we get over something that’s still going on or never resolved?

    Identify the people (and events) you want to be taught – Obama, Powell, Rice, King, Carver, Charles, and going back many many more people who have contributed to this country. The thing to keep in mind is that even for whites, the number of people mentioned as a proportion of the population is very small, and mostly politicians. The vast majority of whites in Europe in the middle ages weren’t knights, they were serfs. I think that there are a number of black international figures such as Mandela or ML King who will enter the history books taught with little trouble.

    Maybe so, but still, as long as the companies and teachers are mostly white, two possibilities will happen:

    1. They will mention figures like King and Mandela very briefly mentioning their most famous contributions according to the mainstream.
    2. They will present their whitewashed versions which will picture King as someone advocating that we love each other regardless of past sins like slavery, or they will present the Black Panther Party as a group equivalent to the Ku Klux Klan.

    Like


  241. Dave I do agree wit you on truth No its the acceptable racism against the white culture. They dont hate white people in general just the culture but dont dare date your black girls. Then you see there racism rear its ugly head

    Like


  242. @Herneith:

    Herneith

    He would blame Cthulu!

    He would, too!😛

    @brothawolf:

    Pay no attention to this Mik fella. I think he’s drunk as a skunk judging by the way he posts. He’s quite incoherent. lol!😉

    Like


  243. Mik

    brotha well trying to edcuate you its like going to Panther meeting and beating me up and then saying I was the one who provoked the attuck.

    LOL. That greatly depends on what you will say.

    Like


  244. Leigh204,

    Pay no attention to this Mik fella. I think he’s drunk as a skunk judging by the way he posts. He’s quite incoherent. lol!

    Come to think of it, I did have trouble figuring out what ‘attuck’ meant lol.

    Like


  245. “I didn’t know this was black supremest website.”

    @ DL

    I didn’t notice that you were still here…

    This isn’t a black “supremacist” website.

    This is a place where the TRUTH gets told. It’s a truth-tellers gathering place.

    So again, why are YOU here?

    *http://racetraitor.org/abolish.html*

    Like


  246. brotha you will also paint the picture of the Black Panthers as a orgainzation that helps the poor and needy and bring in a Japanese person who was a Black Panther. To justify what you say is the defenders of the black race. You also will complain how unfairly your being treated and then call your black and sisters the F word the N word and the bastardization of the N word to justify what you do. Its not white superamcy its american history and you yet you dont defend the whites that have helped freed slaves you only Bannaker to your benefit to say we are diverse but black diverse. You also forgive the white FEMALE masters versus the white MALE masters.

    Like


  247. ^ See what I mean, brothawolf. Drunk as a skunk.

    Like


  248. @Matari

    Just watching racist supremacists like you complaining about white racist supremacists.

    Like


  249. @Matari:

    I don’t know where these fools, such as the one currently addressing you, get the idea this blog is a supremacist cite. Overreaching much?

    Like


  250. Its still the same thing brotha both orgazinations now use words instead of murder. You should be pride Klan uses Propagada now. So instead of the gun they use the text book

    Like


  251. @ Herneith

    Vote Cthulhu 2012.
    Why settle for the lesser evil?

    Like


  252. @leigh204

    From Matari’s very own post. Substitute a few words and it looks no different than similar crud on other sites. (And both will claim to be speaking the “truth”.)

    Like


  253. Mik

    brotha you will also paint the picture of the Black Panthers as a orgainzation that helps the poor and needy and bring in a Japanese person who was a Black Panther. To justify what you say is the defenders of the black race. You also will complain how unfairly your being treated and then call your black and sisters the F word the N word and the bastardization of the N word to justify what you do. Its not white superamcy its american history and you yet you dont defend the whites that have helped freed slaves you only Bannaker to your benefit to say we are diverse but black diverse. You also forgive the white FEMALE masters versus the white MALE masters.

    First off, you don’t know me. If you did, you would know that I do not refer to my sisters as the B-word or my brothas as the N-word, nor do I PERSONALITY see any reason for me to use it. You may think that all blacks do this to each other as if we’re some monolithic group with a hive mind, but guess what. We are individuals. We are not all the same. I know I’m not the same as Abagond, and I know he’s not the same as I am. We are both different people. I know that comes as a shock to you.

    Second, it IS white supremacy that shaped the American history we and our youth are forced to learn or else we fail in those lessons. White supremacy turned American history written in books and seen in the media a propaganda campaign to get its people to love this country unconditionally.

    Third, I do support whites who helped free the slaves and fought with them like John Brown. However, by and large, most whites, including our allies in the past and present will still see us differently than they would see their own. We all know the images they have of black people is limited to 2-D figures their society came up with through the years.

    Fourth, white people, male AND female, need to get on their knees and BEG for forgiveness and work extremely hard to right the wrongs of their ancestors and overprivileged kin to earn even a slither of trust.

    Fifth, none of what you said is pertinent to this topic. So, on that note, goodbye.

    Like


  254. @ Leigh

    “I don’t know where these fools, such as the one currently addressing you, get the idea this blog is a supremacist cite. Overreaching much?”

    ********************************
    Overreaching and over-projecting.. DEAF & BLIND
    (symptomatic of whiteness)

    Like


  255. Mik

    Its still the same thing brotha both orgazinations now use words instead of murder. You should be pride Klan uses Propagada now. So instead of the gun they use the text book

    It’s not the same thing, and unless you have actual information to back up your incoherent babble, this conversation is closed.

    Like


  256. Truthbetold,

    ”They are missing something. There is a coldness in that race. Not in every individual, no, but those who are able to feel the warmth of empathy and kindness have to work really hard to get there, because everything about the culture beats it out of them.

    They’re like a race of depressed people, that’s what I realized. Depressed emotions, only flaring up in anger from time to time but when it does wooo it’s scary. They try to be channel that anger in the approved situations, such as with a gun and a badge. We blacks are too passionate, too “animalistic”, too “irrational” for them. They claim we are too sensitive but they are the ones who react so defensively at every perceived prick. I look at some of the white defenders who comment on this blog and they seem off their rocker to me.

    No, they’re not really cold and dead, they just can’t allow themselves to go where they need to go and to feel what they need to feel, and they deflect that any way they can. They must stay separate from us physically, mentally, and emotionally, they must exist in a permanent state of segregation in every way in order to maintain the facade that everything’s okay. They cannot allow themselves to feel anything for us, because if they do then the whole dam will break.”

    This was written by another commenter about whites and her observation of them. WOW.
    I used to think that I was the only one who thought that whites were missing something.

    A soul.
    A heart.
    The ability to feel…raw emotion, raw pain…something human and deeply visceral that brings you closer to God and mother nature.

    No wonder they attach themselves to our culture, food, music, clothes, churches…to us.
    No wonder our accomplishments in history get downplayed…
    We are secretly EVERYTHING they aspire to become.

    That’s so true. It’s like a complex. They need to feel better by making us feel lower than sh*t. it’s no different than how a bully acts.

    Like


  257. Well neither is the white establishment you speak of. Well I dont see you mention him too much or Bannaker just her ancestors. Who were Freed slaves. How did america force you to love it? Yeah what is that black image and your white image of whites is not skewered please yeah and whites be the one in chains right! I can see where your allience is!

    Like


  258. yeah were is your information? From your oral history I bet

    Like


  259. Bullies? My god your arrogance know no bounds! You know who was the worst in high school where the blacks. But your so blinded by color the only true bullies are the white people and the privelaiged statues

    Like


  260. Bullies? My god your arrogance know no bounds!

    Does your lunacy know no bounds?! STFU already!

    Like


  261. “Fourth, white people, male AND female, need to get on their knees and BEG for forgiveness and work extremely hard to right the wrongs of their ancestors and overprivileged kin to earn even a slither of trust.”

    Since this isn’t about to happen on this planet, now what?

    Like


  262. I am guessing blacks will stew in there own juices and make it impossiable for the rest of us

    Like


  263. “Overreaching and over-projecting.. DEAF & BLIND
    (symptomatic of whiteness)”

    Yawn. I can live with an amateur diagnosis from loonies.

    Like


  264. Mik

    A. I have a feeling providing you with any form of evidence to support my comments will be useless because as demonstrated before time and time again you will ask for information, but will denounce it. I’ve seen this maneuver before. So, what’s the point?

    B. You must be drunk like Leigh said because I don’t understand what you mean by “him” or what (I assume you mean Benjamin) Banneker has to do with what I’m saying.

    C. Like I said, the “Wonderful World of Disney” version of America’s history was the kind of history I had to learn in order to pass. It’s like I had to say the Pledge of Allegiance every morning or else I’d get in trouble. As far as world history is concerned, they presented the U.S. as a utopia of freedom and equality while they presented everywhere else as either “alien”, tyrannical, or primitive.

    D. When did I ever say that white men are bullies?

    E. Bye.

    Like


  265. Dave Lister

    “Fourth, white people, male AND female, need to get on their knees and BEG for forgiveness and work extremely hard to right the wrongs of their ancestors and overprivileged kin to earn even a slither of trust.”

    Since this isn’t about to happen on this planet, now what?

    Mik

    I am guessing blacks will stew in there own juices and make it impossiable for the rest of us.

    Damn straight.

    Like


  266. and sadly Bro you will never move on! You will be envious of the white estabisment and yet crave its power and eliteism as you call it

    Like


  267. […] “White History Month” by Abagond […]

    Like


  268. Abagond,

    As always, this was an incredible article, truly focusing on the heart of things. What’s worse about it always being White History Month, is the fact that people don’t know what Black History Month is, why we have it, etc. Here’s a troubling vid that displays part of the problem:

    White people. *shakes head*

    Like


  269. How is that part of the problem? the black kid didnt know anything about black history month

    Like


  270. on Fri 10 Feb 2012 at 07:05:57 grin and bear it

    Mik, please pick up a dictionary and learn to use spell check. Those little red squiggly lines underlining your words mean you’ve misspelled them. Try going back and correcting them as you type — when you’ve spelled the word correctly, you won’t see a little red line. Also, there are plenty of free grammar checkers online that will help you construct more coherent sentences. I get that English may not be your native language, but it’s interesting to me that you’ve easily picked up the worst attitudes, beliefs and assumptions held by many white Americans, yet proper language use has eluded you. How is it that you can sound as if you’ve mastered The Secret Course on Whiteness (https://abagond.wordpress.com/2011/10/22/the-secret-course-on-whiteness/), but you can’t string a simple sentence together? Maybe it’s time to rethink your priorities, you know?

    From brothawolf, way up thread:
    _____________
    “But then, here come those same people with the kind of mentality we want to get away from, and before you know it, they mostly and relentlessly remind us of why we dislike this society in the first damn place. ”
    ____________

    Yep. Cosign all of this, ^^^, right here.

    I love how so many “whites” (and their apologists) are quick to tell Black people to stop whining about not having anything and to get or make their own stuff, but then when we do, here they come to disrupt it all. We build our own towns, they burn them down; we create our own music, they bastardize it; we create our own forums for discourse, they derail the discussion; we develop our own media and celebrate our own culture, they whine about not having the “White” equivalent. They inject themselves into everything, and then insist on being the center of focus, because if it’s not about them, then it’s not worth knowing, doing, or being. It’s the undeniable proof of their racism because if they were really as “colorblind” and indifferent to Blackness as they claim to be, then they’d leave us the f— alone and go about the business of their lives.

    Like


  271. Again how does the white man do that? the whites didnt have the comb test and the one drop rule now in the past yeah but now you hang on to that like a bracelet. No one has taken things away from you but you. Cant you recoganize that the actor who played abe was very dark Skinned and was a Day player in Malcolm in the middle. things are not going to change unless we the people come together and do something about it. If there were no more white people in this world what would you do?

    Like


  272. Well, I think this thread is a proof of the post. There are guys who have been brainwashed well and truly and it shows. It is very hard to un do the damage and some will never be able to do that, no matter what.

    American history has some bright moments, some moments which are truly heroic, like fighting in WW2, BUT american history is also mostly terrible stuff. It is a almost endless tale of opression, depressions, economic unequality, social unequality, terror, wars, assasinations, violence, unjustice, crimes against humanity, rich stealing from the poor, truly truly scary stuff. It is a long story of governmental crimes such as doing test for biological weapons on civilians and on and on.

    Whitewashed history portrays New Jerusalem, a Promised land, and that is propaganda. It never was. It is not. The so called pilgrims were actually the taleban of their days. Those religious zelots were not seeking the land of freedom for all, only a place where they could live according their horrible religious commands. And thus they killed the natives and burned their own as witches etc.

    There is a lot of good in USA, in the history, brave men and women, but the real history is nothing like it is portrayed. It is a very dark tale indeed and it should be teached as it was and as it happened, not as one hopes and wishes it was.

    Like


  273. and sadly Bro you will never move on! You will be envious of the white estabisment and yet crave its power and eliteism as you call it

    What the f*ck ever, Mik. If white people would get over themselves, that would be the first step to change. Until then, goodbye.

    Like


  274. Bro why should they when blacks wont get out of that slave mentality?

    Like


  275. @ Grin

    “I love how so many “whites” (and their apologists) are quick to tell Black people to stop whining about not having anything and to get or make their own stuff, but then when we do, here they come to disrupt it all. We build our own towns, they burn them down; we create our own music, they bastardize it; we create our own forums for discourse, they derail the discussion; we develop our own media and celebrate our own culture, they whine about not having the “White” equivalent. They inject themselves into everything, and then insist on being the center of focus, because if it’s not about them, then it’s not worth knowing, doing, or being. It’s the undeniable proof of their racism because if they were really as “colorblind” and indifferent to Blackness as they claim to be, then they’d leave us the f— alone and go about the business of their lives.”

    Excellent point!!!

    Like


  276. I pretty much agree with the “something missing” comment. That is certainly how it SEEMS regardless of whatever it is that goes on inside them.

    Like


  277. @ thordaddy

    “White privilege…

    Black liberation…

    If these aren’t the topics, what are the topics?

    Your standard excuse to censor is getting lame.”

    If they are so on topic then act like you read the post instead of using the comment section to rant at will about your pet topics. Your comments on this blog are borderline spam.

    Like


  278. @Dave Lister:

    Yawn. I can live with an amateur diagnosis from loonies.

    Pot meet kettle.

    Like


  279. @ Sam

    “American history has some bright moments, some moments which are truly heroic, like fighting in WW2…”

    *******************************

    Have you read, War is a Racket, by General S Butler?

    Or how the American government (FDR) lured the Japanese into attacking Pearl Harbor in order to galvanize a reluctant citizenry to enter that war?

    I think those “bright moments” are carefully orchestrated and choreographed Public Relations/Madison Ave/Hollywood propaganda affairs designed to manipulate and control the masses. These mass media tactics worked so well for WW1 & WW2, they’re still in use today. Witness the current lethargy among Americans and the west regarding the wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan …

    Like


  280. @ grin and bear it,

    Spot on!
    I’ve always wondered why whites are always in our faces.
    For a race of people who, throughout history, have everything they could ever want, why is it that they cry the loudest about everything?

    It’s like a spoiled child with nothing to do so he cries for the sake of crying.
    They behave the way they do because of the heavy burden on their souls.

    Like


  281. “grin and bear it” said:

    It’s the undeniable proof of their racism because if they were really as “colorblind” and indifferent to Blackness as they claim to be, then they’d leave us the f— alone and go about the business of their lives.

    Your comment appears to be based on a flawed premise.

    Objections to “Black History Month” by non-black people are specifically due to the imposed nature of this observance, and not simply a case of non-black folks being bothered that black folks are off on their own having a celebration.

    Like


  282. @ Randy

    Can you elaborate a bit further?

    Like


  283. @ Randy

    Imposed nature?
    How?

    Like


  284. Franklin and Truthbetold,

    “Black History Month” is taught in most schools, promoted by federal, state, and local governments, and publicized by a large plurality of popular media organs.

    This argues against the claim that objections to it must stem from anti-black racists who are unwilling to leave black folks alone to observe and celebrate historical black figures amongst themselves.

    Like


  285. @ randy

    Then, if what you say is true, whiteness is an imposition on people of colour everywhere.

    We are taught, from birth, that white is right, beautiful, fair, just and noble.
    Can you see the parallel?

    Like


  286. @ Randy

    Trying to shift the blame on the government for one’s own personal dislike of a subject education and facts seems a little dishonest. The government mandating which subjects we study in public school isn’t really a bad thing. By your logic, we should get rid of the STEM program, which serves the sole purpose of strengthening student’s knowledge of Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics because a few people feel they are “forced.” The STEM program which is promoted and funded by the federal government.

    Like


  287. Truthbetold and Franklin,

    My comment was strictly about the assertion by “grin and bear it” that objecting to Black History Month has to be the result of racist non-black people not allowing black people “have their own thing.”

    If a subject is taught to kids in school and otherwise supported by taxpayer dollars, then it’s clearly not just “your own thing”.

    Now, if either or both of you would like to discuss why non-black people might object to Black History Month, I think I can offer a reasonable argument.

    Like


  288. @ Randy

    “Now, if either or both of you would like to discuss why non-black people might object to Black History Month, I think I can offer a reasonable argument.”

    Please tell us.

    Like


  289. “That’s so true. It’s like a complex. They need to feel better by making us feel lower than sh*t. it’s no different than how a bully acts.”

    “D. When did I ever say that white men are bullies? ”

    How did you not?

    Like


  290. Septimus Severus was NOT black . He was of Italian descent.

    Like


  291. @ Randy

    @ Randy

    Well I won’t speak for Grin and Bear it, but he’s not too far off the mark. All one has to do is look at the common white complaint about not being included, while simultaneously telling black folks to “get their own”.

    If your argument about why whites dislike BHM has to do with “being forced to feel white guilt”, then that’s a personal problem that stems with how badly you take in information. It’s also an easy cop out for not wanting to learn, because it’ll change your comfortable world view.

    Like


  292. @ Franklin

    It’s amazing how even a mild attempt to prove a fact always draws back to “you hurt my feelings.”

    Discomfort plays such a large role in these discussions of white heritage.
    They know that they’re a farce, cannot own up to it but know it nonetheless.
    Such conflict in one’s mind leads to destructive behaviour, depression and low self worth. Hence the need to lash out at others.

    Like


  293. @ the white readers

    White history is a farce.
    White history wouldn’t be history without blacks.
    You have intertwined yourselves in EVERY aspect of us that we are no longer seperate. All we have is the concept of blackness and whiteness, based on skin colour, which you created.

    Your history, as you tell it in classrooms, are based on lies that you “discovered”
    everything, “invented” everything and are superior in spite of everything.

    Your history, as you tell it, covers up lies, conspiracies and made up scientific racism that propelled you to “greatness”.
    I feel sorry for the day when the truth is revealed about your kind…your mental demise will be catastrophic.

    Like


  294. Regarding Black History Month,

    Here are a number of arguments against BHM which I heard growing up:

    1. It’s divisive. Rather than serving to unify the country, it encourages separate identities and segregation.

    2. It’s unequal. What about other groups which have felt marginalized, such as the Irish, Chinese, gays, and atheists?

    3. It has a limitless scope. BHM is an example of a program originally designed to be temporary and corrective, but which lacks any mechanism to determine if the original goal has been met.

    4. It’s dishonest. The oft-claimed purpose of BHM is to bring a balance to American history. However, if the common implementation involves focusing on minor figures such as contemporary celebrities, then you’ve merely layered blackwashed history on top of allegedly whitewashed history.

    That action suggests that those proponents of BHM don’t actually value truthful history, but rather merely desire untruthful history which is flattering.

    Like


  295. @ Randy

    Do you consider the needs of anyone but yourself?

    Why do you think that Black History Month occurs? Because it is the history of a people. Something given short shift in plain society.

    Maybe you already have your needs met by the status quo but the other 99% arent have theirs.

    Here is some more truth for you::

    Like


  296. @matari: sorry, should have been more specific: fighting against the nazis. From the peoples view, I guess it was not much of a different japanese vs, US imperium on Pacific.

    War and business have always been linked in USA, from the days of blue coats on. So called Indian wars were about commerce, land ownership etc. so nothing new.

    Wars abroad have always been planned ahead and even started by some ultra govermental forces. Prime example US-Spain war and invasion of Cuba etc. Most famous incident must be the Tonking Gulf mess which was totally made up.

    Mr Manzione who was one of the Navy Seals at present there told his version back in the 80’s: american- vietnamese mercenary group attacked north vietnamese radar station INSIDE north vietnamese territorial waters and thius launched a north vietnamese response. While the special forces team was escaping, they did not escape to the south, shortes route, but out to the ocean, where the american war ships were waiting. Result: the Tonking Incident and the official launch of the US war in Vietnam.

    Like


  297. Abagond:

    White folk will never have a “White History Month.” Everything that whites have on this planet came from slavery and colonization…Everything! They can’t take credit for any and all things related to whiteness. It’s funny that they would complain, blacks and native-americans aren’t stopping them from doing a damn’ thing. If they want to rationalize and excuse away what their white forefathers did on this planet, go right ahead. Again, in order for whites to maintain their power and wealth, black people and other colored folk to a lesser extent have to be deaf, dumb, and blind. This is the twisted reality of whiteness.

    Tyrone
    Black Eros Movement

    Like


  298. @Tyrone

    Yeah, everything. That explains why those whites with nothing went out and conquered the rest of the planet – with nothing.

    The “logic” is inescapable.

    Like


  299. @Randy

    1. That’s the fault of white people who not only left out blacks in American history, but became upset because the focus wasn’t on them. It causing a rift isn’t the fault of anyone but the white people who feel offended over not being able to cope with something that doesn’t glorify them. Once they take care of that little problem (and stop knee-jerking over mentioning their past) things will be able to move forward. Plus, I don’t hear much from enough whites in America that they want it to included into the regular curriculum as “American History”, anyway. They could easily fix that, but they have a habit of suddenly acting powerless when it helps to make a point.

    2. Irish, Chinese, Gays, and other groups have their respected months. It not being studied in school isn’t the fault of BHM, but rather the whites from response #1 who will use that logic as a tool to restore the “whites only” status quo.

    3. See the second sentence of answer #1, which would have made it (BHM) temporary. There wouldn’t have been any goal to meet. Also, it’s somewhat odd for you to project and place an expiration date on this particular portion of history. It really just seems like “you’re tired of hearing about these people.”

    4. You’re projecting your disdain for said figures while downplaying what they did. Then you engaged in hyperbole so you can begin to amp it up to present your argument as “a valid concern over a serious issue”. Then you switched the source of the problem onto those supporting BHM based on the strawman THAT YOU CREATED.

    No…YOU’RE dishonest, Randy.

    And I keep saying “you” because even though you claim these were arguments you heard, you still agree with them, since you find them “reasonable”.

    Like


  300. Posted by Dave Lister
    ####

    @Tyrone

    Yeah, everything. That explains why those whites with nothing went out and conquered the rest of the planet – with nothing.

    The “logic” is inescapable.

    #########

    @ Dave Lister:

    So please elaborate on the finer points of White superiority, Dave Lister. What innate superiorities should explain for France, Britain, Dutch Republic, Portugal, Germany, Belgium etc. expropriating the capital resources of the rest of the non-european world.

    We’re all dying for you to school us.

    Like


  301. @JT

    And now that JT has showed up, we can let the strawman building begin.

    Please point out where I said anything about white superiority. Since you have, feel free to explain it.

    While you’re at it, go learn about sarcasm.

    Like


  302. Please note: One of Dave Lister’s tactics is to get people angry at him so he can discredit them as emotional and irrational.

    Like


  303. @Abagond

    Yeah, Abagond, it’s the white man’s fault again.

    Like


  304. Abagond–

    In the back of their minds there is some crawling doubt that I might be right. So they come here and oppose what I have to say. They think they are having a debate, but since they mostly just use the mantra argument and move goal posts as needed (like when Doug1 made Indiana part of the South), they always “win”.

    As to the first, nope, not at all in my case.

    We win because we’re right and have tons of evidence that we are.

    Also, I did not make Indiana part of the South. I said that large parts of its population were sympathetic to the southern cause in the period leading up to and in the Civil War and that such people were called “copperheads”. I said it remained sympathetic to southern attitudes and quite anti-black after the Civil War and that e.g. in the 1920s had a lot more KKK members than most other parts of the north.

    That’s not “moving the goal posts”.

    Like


  305. If there were no more white people in this world what would you do?

    Go play BINGO, or go shopping! Shopping like prostitution is as old as the hills!

    Can you elaborate a bit further?

    Please don’t encourage him.

    Please tell us.

    I see your wry sense of humour is kicking in!

    Such conflict in one’s mind leads to destructive behaviour, depression and low self worth. Hence the need to lash out at others.

    Like the alcoholic. He didn’t become an alcoholic over night. I wonder how many of them suffer from depression statistically?

    Like


  306. And here comes the Steve Sailer/HBD/”Try-Hard-Science” crap, that’s been debated over and over on this blog for the past few years…

    Like


  307. Matari Americans didnt lure Japan into attucking Pearl Harbor The Japanese were planning on attuacking the us regardless and then Revered Wright says Not god bless god damn america he should be on his knees praying that he has that oppurnity to burn spit and walk over the american flag and to say the things he can about americans. He can always go back to the land of his people to see what it is really LIKE

    Like


  308. Sanabituranima—

    Are you really saying that nothing in Africa, Asia or Latin America in the last 500 years has been important.

    People everywhere are important, as are the successes. However when assessing civilizational accomplishments, it’s a matter of degree.

    I can’t think of anything invented or created within those civilizations that was as modern world creatingly important as the many, many things I cited that white men invented beginning with Gutenberg’s invention of the first mass production printing press, which immediately lead to relatively cheep books, pamphlets and journals circulating all over central and western Europe, which in turn contributed greatly to the first systematic and interconnected scientific revolution.

    To be clear I don’t think that that was entirely due racial differences in intelligence and intelligent varieties of creativity, though it was a necessary prerequisite. NE Asians are real smart too on average. There was clearly a cultural and civilizational momentum that got going and kept going in Europe for somewhat more than the last 500 years. However no such momentum ever got going in ssAfrica, in Australia before the arrival of the British, or anywhere in the Americas. The Mayans, Aztecs and Inca did develop reasonably advanced civilizations (brutal ones though I might add) but nothing on the scale of the Greco-Roman classical period. Perhaps comparable to the ancient Mesopotamians who had a similar fixation on astronomical observation, though at much later periods in history.

    Like


  309. Please note: One of Dave Lister’s tactics is to get people angry at him so he can discredit them as emotional and irrational.

    Don’t get angry crack jokes!

    As to the first, nope, not at all in my case.

    Why are you here?

    And here comes the Steve Sailer/HBD/”Try-Hard-Science” crap, that’s been debated over and over on this blog for the past few years…

    Yes they are like the Timex watch slogan; Takes a licking and keeps on ticking. Hahahahahahaha!!!!

    Like


  310. So if these HBDers think we are such a lost cause why do they come here? What are we supposed to be convinced of? This doesn’t make any sense to me. If us Negroids are such a lowly and lost cause, then why condescend to come here. And what do they hope to gain from us?And why do they need our concession if we are on the intellectual periphery?

    Too many questions I need answers to.

    Like


  311. Hey Doug, are you on your coffee break?

    Like


  312. Oh and Herneith,

    Your posts. Girl. *DEAD*!!!! You’re money baby! You’re golden! Fa REAL!

    Like


  313. JT said:

    Maybe you already have your needs met by the status quo but the other 99% arent have theirs.

    In other words, just because something ought to be done, one must never criticize whichever something was implemented. That’s rather simplistic reasoning. If you wish to advance the dialog, perhaps you might argue against particular opinions which you disagree with.

    Franklin said (RE: On BHM being divisive):

    It causing a rift isn’t the fault of anyone but the white people who feel offended over not being able to cope with something that doesn’t glorify them.

    So you’re arguing that the cure for X-centric divisiveness is Y-centric divisiveness? How Hammurabic. I’d suggest that the opposite of divisiveness is non-divisiveness.

    Franklin said (RE: On BHM being unequal):

    Irish, Chinese, Gays, and other groups have their respected months. It not being studied in school isn’t the fault of BHM, but rather the whites from response #1 who will use that logic as a tool to restore the “whites only” status quo.

    Those other groups’ months don’t receive the same share of school time or city hall ceremonies as does BHM. You’ve only punted on the question.

    Franklin said (RE: On BHM being permanent):

    Also, it’s somewhat odd for you to project and place an expiration date on this particular portion of history. It really just seems like “you’re tired of hearing about these people.”

    According to Sylvia Cyrus-Albritton, director of the Association for the Study of African American Life and History (the organization which originated the precursor to BHM):

    Dr. Woodson hoped that one day there would no longer be a need for Black History Month because it would be incorporated into American history all year round.

    According to historian John Hope Franklin, Woodson “continued to express hope that Negro History Week would outlive its usefulness”.

    Franklin said (RE: On BHM being dishonest):

    You’re projecting your disdain for said figures while downplaying what they did.

    I think you’re projecting about me projecting. One example of a so-called minor figure commonly celebrated by BHM is Muhammad Ali. Great guy, but does he rank up there with the likes of Eli Whitney and Jonas Salk?

    Like


  314. @Doug1

    Why does every thread you post in resort to this copy and paste nonsense? It’s like a broken record of unreliable and comfortable ignorance. Trying to mask your disdain for blacks with passive aggressive “truth” telling, is starting to get a bit old.

    Like


  315. Sam—

    BUT american history is also mostly terrible stuff. It is a almost endless tale of opression, depressions, economic unequality, social unequality, terror, wars, assasinations, violence, unjustice, crimes against humanity, rich stealing from the poor, truly truly scary stuff.

    This is all leftist garbage and some combination of huge exaggeration and utterly lacking in comparative perspective. In what society, especially any agricultural, industrial or post industrial society, has there ever not been economic and social inequality, wars, assassinations, violence, terror felt by some, what some consider injustice, and the rich doing what lefties consider to be “stealing” from the poor?

    No we’re not as socialistic as the Scandinavians have become and most of us don’t want to be, though most blacks do, for obvious reasons.

    Like


  316. So if these HBDers think we are such a lost cause why do they come here? What are we supposed to be convinced of? This doesn’t make any sense to me. If us Negroids are such a lowly and lost cause, then why condescend to come here. And what do they hope to gain from us?And why do they need our concession if we are on the intellectual periphery?

    Too many questions I need answers to. Still. This is too much effort to put into a people you obviously disdain. Why are they here and what is the purpose of our “education” if we are so “obviously” unteachable en masse? What kind of response are they aiming for? And if we were to all of a sudden magically lose our rationale and logic and concede their points, then what? What do they want us to do then?

    Yes, you’re right. The majority of Black people are stupid and have never accomplished a thing of any noteworthiness in all their miserable existence.

    Now what?

    Like


  317. @ mik

    Who are you? What are you? Stop drinking and posting.

    Like


  318. Randy

    Randy

    @Franklin and Truthbetold,

    “Black History Month” is taught in most schools, promoted by federal, state, and local governments, and publicized by a large plurality of popular media organs.

    Indeed.

    Like


  319. Mik, honey. Who are you talking to? You sound like you’re having an imaginary conversation with the ghost of Huey Newton. -_-

    Like


  320. I admire some things about blacks in general, such as that west africans tend to be the world’s best in strong percentages at the most elite levels of sports involving jumping and sprinting.

    You don’t say! Are you related to no_slappz? He admired black athletes to, especially boxers! If you are, it’s a small world!

    To call what I’m saying here unreliable and comfortable ignorance is absurd. You sure as hell haven’t shown that to be the case, and can’t.

    It is unreliable an comfortable ignorance. Sir, you are the absurd one. If people choose not to entertain your babblings, then what? I am surprised that people even respond to you seriously. I can only think that they are doing so for the lurkers, so as not to have one-sided arguments. I would ban you but this isn’t my blog. Anyhow, for the fifty millionth time; Why are you here? Please answer that with out going on a tangent about how dumb ni++gers are as a group, we get it.

    Like


  321. @ doug

    The Spanish, Portuguese, British and other countries made so much money from the transatlantic slave trade that if it never existed, Europe would never have been able to fund it rise to power and keep it’s borders relatively secured.

    Like


  322. This IQ stuff is getting off topic. I just deleted some posts in that vein.

    Like


  323. *Listening in rapt attention to their response to Herneith*

    Like


  324. Darqbeauty–

    So if these HBDers think we are such a lost cause why do they come here? What are we supposed to be convinced of? This doesn’t make any sense to me. If us Negroids are such a lowly and lost cause, then why condescend to come here. And what do they hope to gain from us?And why do they need our concession if we are on the intellectual periphery?

    Endless exaggeration. I’ve never called blacks “lowly” or a “lost cause”. As for “intellectual periphery”, there are some very smart blacks, just lower percentages of them. I’d never call Thomas Sowell on the intellectual periphery.

    One reason I very occasionally come here is to refute the endless though somewhat varied arguments (Abagond tries to come at it from every angle he can think of) that the racism and other wrongs of white Americans are responsible for all black gaps and lower performance in schools, income and wealth. No, and IQ gap is.

    Also though I think there’s grown up a cultural attitude gap since the mid and late sixties among blacks (which could be changed). Part of what Bill Cosby talks about.

    Blacks were encouraged by the most leftie whites to nurture the opposite of the classic WASP self reliant, the little engine that could, try, try and try again, attitudes. Instead most blacks have nurtured a strong measure of hand out, whitie owes us attitude. I think that while that can and has brought some fairly small near term gains, it’s very long term and big picture, big money harmful to blacks in this country and anywhere else where it’s the case (such as Haiti).

    Gains by blacks will never come about through endless PC lying and covering up. Schools in which there are a high percentage of non elite blacks would do much better with more classroom discipline for example. Yet if there are also any sizeable number of whites in the school, idiotic application of the “disparate impact” rule borrowed from the EEOC keep blacks from being disciplined at notably higher levels than white students, never mind the actual percentages of disruptive incidents by each group. Which is not only idiotic but harmful for the education of most black kids.

    Like


  325. @ Doug1

    “the classic WASP self reliant, the little engine that could, try, try and try again, attitudes”

    Yes, good old Wasp self-reliance built on Dead Indian Land and millions forced into slavery. That self reliance.

    I find it strange that, despite the topic of the post, you never once seem to question the white supremacist fairy tale you were fed at school. You measure the truth of the white history you were taught at school by the very same white history you were taught at school. That is circular thinking. And this from the very same person who loves to tell us how much more intelligent his race is.

    Like


  326. Someguy–

    The Spanish, Portuguese, British and other countries made so much money from the transatlantic slave trade that if it never existed, Europe would never have been able to fund it rise to power and keep it’s borders relatively secured.

    Nope. The big numbers were in greatly improved European agriculture beginning in the 17th century (three field crop rotation among other things) which lead to much greater productivity and higher population, much more extensive European and then with the age of discovery world trade other than the slave trade, and industrialization which had nothing to do with the slave trade. Britain did not go into some sort of depression when it ended its citizens’ right to participate in the slave trade in 1808, nor did other western European slave trading countries when British naval and diplomatic pressure forced them to end their own participation as well.

    Like


  327. So you are under the impression that coming here and telling us that we are, as a whole, intellectually inferior will somehow affect both white and blacks positively? And if Black people are genetically inferior when it comes to intellect, then what is to be gained from the cessation of “endless PC lying and covering up”? After we somehow magically fess up to our ignorance, then what? By your own admission, we are genetically predisposed towards low IQs. What would you have Blacks do? What are your final solution to the Negroid problem?
    Since the number of intelligent Blacks is negligible, in your estimation, what exactly do you hope to accomplish with your postings? What is the outcome that you search for as you come back month after month, expecting a different outcome than the one that is presented to you time and time again? And if the amount of intelligent Blacks is of such a low percentage, then your postings here, are, again, an exercise in futility. You tell us that we are unintelligent as a majority. Ok. So we are unintelligent as a majority. You tell us that we whine about the white man. Ok, now the whining has stopped. So now what? Please tell us mostly unintelligent Negroids what you would have us do. You offer critique. Can you offer solution?

    Like


  328. LOL @ self reliance at the expense of the freedom of the Black human and the extermination of the red human.

    I caught that one too. I am also in perplexity to his circular reasoning which is why I ask him of his solutions. I am curious as what what he will offer up.

    Like


  329. Randy–

    @Franklin said (RE: On BHM being unequal):

    “Irish, Chinese, Gays, and other groups have their respected months. It not being studied in school isn’t the fault of BHM, but rather the whites from response #1 who will use that logic as a tool to restore the “whites only” status quo.”

    Those other groups’months don’t receive the same share of school time or city hall ceremonies as does BHM. You’ve only punted on the question.

    Yeah, and to such a differential extent that I wasn’t even aware the Irish, Chinese, gays or other groups having their respected months.

    There is definitely a promote blacks PC bias in our schools, media and governments.

    Like


  330. Anger because there is one month out of 12 where you have to learn about Black people (and not even deep truth just the same rote stuff, Rosa Parks, Dr. King, Mr. Carver..ect). They are angry because out of 44 presidents, one is half Black (nevermind Warren G.Harding. That’s another post altogether) and think this is indicative of Black people being given preferential treatment and taking over the nation.

    Very interesting think set certain people have. Indeed it is…

    Like


  331. Why thank you Doug 1! It isn’t our fault we are dumb! Schnooka schnaw!

    Please tell us mostly unintelligent Negroids what you would have us do.

    For one, he can justify dismantling any social safety net in place as it is just a waste of time,as he wrote before. I’d hazard a guess and say “Go back to Africa” would be his solution! Since most American blacks have 15-20% European blood in them, I don’t think this would be feasible. He is a eugenicist by the tone of his writings.

    Can you offer solution?

    Probably not, that requires lucidity. I am surprised that ‘I’m not a racist’ David Lister is not ‘debating’ him. Now that would make for some gut busting hilarity!

    Like


  332. Nope. The big numbers were in greatly improved European agriculture beginning in the 17th century (three field crop rotation among other things) which lead to much greater productivity and higher population, much more extensive European and then with the age of discovery world trade other than the slave trade, and industrialization which had nothing to do with the slave trade. Britain did not go into some sort of depression when it ended its citizens’ right to participate in the slave trade in 1808, nor did other western European slave trading countries when British naval and diplomatic pressure forced them to end their own participation as well.

    Nope.

    Like


  333. Abagond—

    Yes, good old Wasp self-reliance built on Dead Indian Land and millions forced into slavery. That self reliance.

    At the time of the Civil War the South were the poorest states in the nation. It’s a leftist lie that American properity was based on slavery. As well, the vast majority of whites in the south never owned slaves.

    90% of the Amerindians that died did so from diseases common in Eurasia which they’d developed no immunity to. Though as well whites did from time to time conquer Amerindians and their land, though more often they squatted on what seemed to them to be unused land, or bought it. Amerindians were not American citizens until 1924. They were often hostile nations within the continent, who far more often killed white women and children or took white women as unwilling concubines, than the other way round. Why shouldn’t we conquer them piecemeal and take what was formerly their land, especially if there was some Indian atrocity to avenge or other pretext? That’s what people of all races all over the world did in the years before the end of WWII and the founding of the UN.

    Amerindians in what became the US were in near constant wars against other non allied tribes, and would frequently take the land of those the defeated, long before the white men came. This continued until they were all either interrmarried with whites, or on reservations.

    You have heard of the Assyrians and Hittites haven’t you, and Shaka Zulu and his Zulu warrior conquests and land “stealing”? You have heard of the Aztec conquest and “land theft”of what became Mexico City and the surrounding countryside from other Amerindians there previously, right?

    Why is it that for blacks and leftists it’s only white conquest which is so wicked?

    Because whites have at least in modern times, and for a thousand years of the classical Greco Roman period, been the most successful in the world at it, is why. And they want to take whites down for equalization and in the case of blacks retributive purposes as much as they can.

    Like


  334. THIS IS BRITAIN ALONE:

    The exact number of British ships that took part in the Slave Trade will probably never be known but, in the 245 years between Hawkins first voyage and the abolition of the Slave Trade in 1807, merchants in Britain despatched about 10,000 voyages to Africa for slaves, with merchants in other parts of the British Empire perhaps fitting out a further 1,150 voyages.

    Historian, Professor David Richardson, has calculated that British ships carried 3.4 million or more enslaved Africans to the Americas.

    Between 1750 and 1780, about 70% of the government’s total income came from taxes on goods from its colonies. The money made on the Transatlantic Slave Trade triangle was vast and poured into Britain and other European countries involved in slavery, changing their landscapes forever. In Britain, those who had made much of their wealth from the trade built fine mansions, established banks such as the Bank of England and funded new industries.
    Who profited?

    British slave ship owners – some voyages made 20-50% profit. Large sums of money were made by ship owners who never left England.

    British Slave Traders – who bought and sold enslaved Africans.

    Plantation Owners – who used slave labour to grow their crops. Vast profits could be made by using unpaid workers. Planters often retired to Britain with the profits they made and had grand country houses built for them. Some planters used the money they had made to become MPs. Others invested their profits in new factories and inventions, helping to finance the Industrial Revolution.

    The factory owners in Britain – who had a market for their goods. Textiles from Yorkshire and Lancashire were bought by slave-captains to barter with. One half of the textiles produced in Manchester were exported to Africa and half to the West Indies. In addition, industrial plants were built to refine the imported raw sugar. Glassware was needed to bottle the rum.

    West African leaders involved in the trade – who captured people and sold them as slaves to Europeans.

    The ports – Bristol and Liverpool became major ports through fitting out slave ships and handling the cargoes they brought back. Between 1700 and 1800, Liverpool’s population rose from 5000 to 78,000.

    Bankers – banks and finance houses grew rich from the fees and interest they earned from merchants who borrowed money for their long voyages.

    Ordinary people – the Transatlantic Slave Trade provided many jobs for people back in Britain. Many people worked in factories which sold their goods to West Africa. These goods would then be traded for enslaved Africans. Birmingham had over 4000 gun-makers, with 100,000 guns a year going to slave-traders.

    Others worked in factories that had been set up with money made from the Slave Trade. Many trades-people bought a share in a slave ship. Slave labour also made goods, such as sugar, more affordable for people living in Britain.

    Like


  335. nevermind Warren G.Harding. That’s another post altogether

    There are rumours of other ‘black’ presidents. Eisenhower for one. Here’s a picture of his negress mother!

    Like


  336. Here’s are pictures of Harding with his relatives.

    http://stewartsynopsis.com/warren_gamaliel_harding.htm

    I never knew about Eisenhower! Well, I am not surprised. There’s a reason some people don’t want to shake their family tree too hard. Those Ancestry.com commercial must scare the shyt out of them.

    Like


  337. Doug1,

    How about you actually post something factual instead of doing the usual “what blacks need to do is” stuff? All of your stuff seems like it was found on some typical “race realist” blog, not something that is actually realistic or true.

    Back to topic:

    I’m honestly tired of this, Black people cannot even have a month without some white guy deciding it’s his job to explain to them why they (in that white guy’s limited experience on the subject and very limited perspective) don’t even deserve that.

    I had to deal with this too, I know it’s “tough” to not be the center of the universe at all times, but here’s your reality check from someone who might have agreed with you a long time ago:

    Guess what white people in denial…

    You aren’t special. White people are not special, and never were. Read a history book, no…read a damn book about ancient history and start from there! They were viewed as just insects by the Romans who’s history they are so willing to appropriate, they had to lie and kill their way into a position of authority while at the same time being unable to even survive and grow food without the help of the people they were so “superior” to. Hell, if it weren’t for their ability to work hard by making other people do the work for them, they wouldn’t have had the resources to expand like they did, so they don’t even get credit for ending slavery. After all, if they truly deserved credit for that, maybe they should have ended it a long time ago instead of waiting hundreds of years and coming up with racial propaganda to excuse having it in the first place. If these Black people are supposed to get over the constant racial discrimination they have faced (and continue to), you should stop riding on the coattails of white “accomplishments” (and especially stop using the accomplishments of men who had to flee from other racist countries because even they weren’t considered white enough at the time). It’s not like every white person did anything noteworthy, just a few who were hyped up. Self-sufficiency goes BOTH WAYS. And white people have never been self-sufficient, after all, even the government set aside benefits, money, and jobs for them just on the basis of being white…

    Let me spell it out,

    If a Black person who’s ancestors have served this country for generations, who have invented, built businesses, fought for and did everything they could just for the right to live the American dream should not even have a MONTH, you sure as heck don’t deserve a year. And it is despicable that certain white people see fit to lord the blatant oppression people of color face over their heads to explain their “inferiority” while bragging about accomplishments that they had nothing to do with.

    Like


  338. I love Marsha’s site!!!!!

    Like


  339. I know right!!??? One of the best sites EVER!! *girlish squeal*

    Like


  340. @ Doug1

    I said cool it on the IQ stuff.

    Like


  341. Hey Abagond, do you think that perhaps, in the future you could do a post on “passing” in the upper echelons of society and detail Harding and Eisenhower? That would be neat-o!

    Like


  342. Sorry, meant to put a comment after “future”. That read horribly.

    Like


  343. @ Abagond

    Thanks for the improvements.:)

    Like


  344. Abagond,

    This is what Doug1 said:

    ” Though as well whites did from time to time conquer Amerindians and their land, though more often they squatted on what seemed to them to be unused land, or bought it. Amerindians were not American citizens until 1924. They were often hostile nations within the continent, who far more often killed white women and children or took white women as unwilling concubines, than the other way round. Why shouldn’t we conquer them piecemeal and take what was formerly their land, especially if there was some Indian atrocity to avenge or other pretext? ”

    I honestly am speechless.
    Squatted on unused land?
    Hostile nations?
    Often killed white women and children?

    Is this real?
    Am I dreaming?

    I’m signing off for now…
    I need a break.

    Like


  345. SomeGuy—

    in the 245 years between Hawkins first voyage and the abolition of the Slave Trade in 1807, merchants in Britain despatched about 10,000 voyages to Africa for slaves, with merchants in other parts of the British Empire perhaps fitting out a further 1,150 voyages.

    The proportion of slave to non slave merchant voyages from Britain and her colonies seems highly implausible. I simply don’t believe it.

    What is your source?? Overall, this is a classic Marxist argument that’s been refuted.

    The first article that come up from the neutral google search query “slave trading importance to British economy” published in “The Journal of Economic History” states that:

    If the value added and strategic links of the sugar industry are compared to those of other British industries, it is apparent that sugar cultivation and the slave trade were not particularly large, nor did they have stronger growth inducing ties with the rest of the British economy.

    http://www.jstor.org/pss/2566799

    The main point though is that the industrial revolution was self financing, after initial bank loans. It generated tremendous wealth very rapidly. What it required was invention, not profits from slave trading.

    Portugal also was a huge slave trader, most to it’s Brazilian colony. Portugal was very late to the industrial revolution and really only participated in it to a limited degree.

    Like


  346. @ doug

    I think you are shifting things a bit. I offered my argument in response to your counter claim that slavery had little or nothing to do with Europe building wealth enough to protect itself. The industrial revolution happened well after the slave trade was abolished, so we are not even talking about the same era.

    Like


  347. Jt another angry black man? of course! Because of the white establishement!@

    Like


  348. No not everything TYRONE. Yeah and whites need to be on there knees beneath the black panther in chains no less. another soap box movement of course

    Like


  349. @SomeGuy:

    I guffawed when I noticed your gravatar just now.😀

    Like


  350. Why are whites so combative? And why can’t we have our own space? Another poster is right. We are excluded from the mainstream, we complain and are told to get our own. We get our own and our spaces become invaded by individuals who don’t even know WHY they’re there. These spaces become a place for these individuals to try and convince us of our inherent inferiority. To what ends? Why is any critique of them seen as hatred? Why are they so reactionary when it comes to critique? If they are so superior, what do they have to lose just because some darkies are whining about them on a blog?

    Like


  351. who has said your dumb? Darq? who. there more racism in the black community then the whites at least whites are not having the comb test Now its margainlziation!

    Like


  352. Mik, I would totally respond to you if your posts weren’t so unintelligible and haphazard. Is English not your first language? I am curious and not being at all condescending.

    Like


  353. doug because they want it more! blacks want to complain complain complain! Even when they have the power of the WHITE HOUSE. THey call Obama more white Faced then black faced

    Like


  354. Someguy–

    I think you are shifting things a bit. I offered my argument in response to your counter claim that slavery had little or nothing to do with Europe building wealth enough to protect itself. The industrial revolution happened well after the slave trade was abolished, so we are not even talking about the same era.

    No I said that the industrial revolution had nothing to do with the slave trade, I didn’t address whether the slave trade helped Europe defend itself.

    During the period when England participated in the slave trade, almost the only nations that Europeans needed to defend themselves against were other European nations. The Holy Roman Empire lead by the Hapsburgs did fight a couple of wars against the Ottoman Turks in the 17th century, one beating them back from the gates of Vienna. That was heavily financed by Spain’s Central and South American colonies no doubt, but those did not much participate in the slave trade.

    Trying to argue that England was were the industrial revolution began and only because of profits from English slave trading and slave sugar cane plantations in the Caribbean was a major Marxist emotionalist, shaming, thesis, which has been refuted.

    Like


  355. Mik, the fact that you don’t know who I was speaking of means that you are just posting without really reading. OR you are reading selectively and choosing not to see what is quite literally in black and white in front of your eyes. If you do not know how to navigate the scroll bar, and read the posts of other then what do you expect me to say in reply to you?
    *Kayneshrug*

    Like


  356. Darq then why dont you stop being condescending? There are bad things blacks and whites have done once we recogazine both groups did good and bad we can move forward. But you cant just blame the white estabishment for everything

    Like


  357. Exactly dave exacty and there rage continues with no resoulation.

    Like


  358. Mik, exactly!!!! You hit the nail on the head. Once whites have recognized and apologized for past wrongs and try to rectify those wrongs in earnest then we can definitely move forward. What are we supposed to be apologizing for again, Mik? Enslaving you? Kidnapping your from Europe? Enacting Jim Crow against you? Slaughtering the natives? Stealing land and resources? Lynchings? Genocide? Tell us again what we are supposed to be sorry for. Cause I forgot.

    Like


  359. Doug then what the orgin of Jung Mark and Beachamp? Since you can tell by the names. I want there racial category and where there ancestors came from

    Like


  360. Mik, if the rage continues then why do YOU guys continue to come here? It goes back to my original question which no one can seem to answer. What are you doing here and what do you hope to accomplish? Because if all you’re getting is the same outcome when you perform the same activities and expecting a different outcome..well, that is the definition of crazy. :)

    Like


  361. Exacty Dave. I am sure after they are in power they will continue to say its the whites establishements problems

    Like


  362. The white fear. There it is vocalized. The fear that if we should ever get into power, we will treat them as they have treated us.

    Don’t worry, if we ever come into power we will treat you just as fairly as you treated us. No more no less.

    Like


  363. Darqbeauty—

    Slaughtering the natives? Stealing land and resources?

    The natives in America died off in droves, in some places and times to 90%, due to Eurasian diseases which most Euros had at least partial immunity to, but Amerindians had zero, due to no prior evolutionary experience of them. That left the north American continent not unpopulated, but thinly populated, though it had been fairly thinly populated before in most places due to their mixed hunter gatherer, and light horticultural agricultural economic systems, depending on the tribe.

    Relations with the Indians, who were not perceived as fellow Americans, but rather sometimes/often hostile tribal nations, were of an international nature, not like one between co citizens of the same nation, certainly before 1900, when about all Indians were either on welfare (our first welfare with devastating consequences) reservations or had intermarried with whites.

    Taking the land of Amerindians white colonial and US men conquered was not “stealing” it under the ethos of the 17th-19th century, which ethos applied around the world. It was conquering it. Full stop.

    Morality changed after WWII and the founding of the UN. It changed under US leadership.

    Like


  364. *when about all Indians

    Should be:

    after which about all Indians …

    Like


  365. Mik–

    Doug then what the orgin of Jung Mark and Beachamp? Since you can tell by the names. I want there racial category and where there ancestors came from

    No idea.

    Like


  366. Really Doug? Because according to GLOBAL population statistics, white populations are facing decline/stagnation. I don’t know what that has to do with anything though. It’s like your pulling statistics from your ass and expecting us to be nodding at you like bobble headed dolls. LOL What does that have to do with anything? The only person talking about population is you. Why are you here again and what do you hope to achieve? Once again,

    “So you are under the impression that coming here and telling us that we are, as a whole, intellectually inferior will somehow affect both white and blacks positively? And if Black people are genetically inferior when it comes to intellect, then what is to be gained from the cessation of “endless PC lying and covering up”? After we somehow magically fess up to our ignorance, then what? By your own admission, we are genetically predisposed towards low IQs. What would you have Blacks do? What are your final solution to the Negroid problem?
    Since the number of intelligent Blacks is negligible, in your estimation, what exactly do you hope to accomplish with your postings? What is the outcome that you search for as you come back month after month, expecting a different outcome than the one that is presented to you time and time again? And if the amount of intelligent Blacks is of such a low percentage, then your postings here, are, again, an exercise in futility. You tell us that we are unintelligent as a majority. Ok. So we are unintelligent as a majority. You tell us that we whine about the white man. Ok, now the whining has stopped. So now what? Please tell us mostly unintelligent Negroids what you would have us do. You offer critique. Can you offer solution?”

    You sidestepped these questions and start spouting none sense about population from left field. Maybe you can answer them? Or do you have a problem offering solutions and are only adept at critiquing to no constructive end?

    Like


  367. LOL @ Conquering versus stealing!

    Is this the same as looting versus finding ala Katrina?😛

    Like


  368. darqbeauty—

    Mik, exactly!!!! You hit the nail on the head. Once whites have recognized and apologized for past wrongs and try to rectify those wrongs in earnest then we can definitely move forward.

    Northern whites initiated and fought the war with more casualties than all other US wars combined to free the slaves in the southeast. Whites passed civil rights legislation in the 1960s that did far more than eliminate Jim Crowe, but created extensive and burdensome laws and regulations against private preferences and discrimination when practiced by whites, but in practice no other race in America.

    Then under Nixon, to show he wasn’t far right, whites created affirmative action, or “positive” discrimination in favor of blacks and against whites around 1970. All sorts of similar “positive discrimination” rules and programs were developed subsequently, such as “disparate impact” rules for assessing employment discrimination, set asides for “disadvantaged minorities”, much, much higher than proportional hiring of blacks by the federal government, despite lower qualifications, quota rules for government contractors, no child left behind, and on and on. We’ve turned our society up and down over black achievement gaps for the last 45 years, and nothings worked much.

    Like


  369. This has been SUPER fun! I don’t expect a viable answer from certain persons, so I will be retiring from this thread for the night and engaging homework and study.
    The rest of you, goodnight and it’s been real!

    Like


  370. Darq that cracked me up!

    Like


  371. darqbeauty–

    LOL @ Conquering versus stealing!

    Morality changes over time. Not always in a linear, more lefty/progressive direction. It also is different in different cultures.

    There’s an global level world morality now, after WWII and the founding of the UN, mostly under American leadership, or at least it’s paid lip service to and there’s sometimes American muscle to enforce it, but there wasn’t before.

    There have been various pan western and central European codes of international conduct, but they weren’t the same as practiced in central America or Africa etc.

    Like


  372. darqbeauty–

    Might makes right probably less now than ever before (isolated small area and time length exceptions excepted) in human history, but might still matters huge.

    Probably always will.

    The only reason the UN charter and so on has sway is because of the US and it’s military.

    Previously the British enforced Pax Britanica in the 19th century, with a moral international relations code. Did they sometimes take advantage of their cat bird position, sure, but did they as much as critics claimed, no. Soft power of moral example matters too. Which leads to being held to a higher in many ways unfair standard.

    Like


  373. Morality doesn’t change over time. That why the code of Hammurabi and the Commandments are the basis for a lot of modern morality. Rape has always been wrong. Murder has always been wrong. Stealing has always been wrong. Why do you attribute moral fluidity where there is none? And why are you keeping me from my Calculus homework? I’m out of the conversation (though still reading) and said so. Feel free to address someone else. A great many of us have to bow out of the conversation because we have these small inconsequential things called “lives”. Go eat something. Drink some tea. Get some fresh air. Sitting here waiting for us darkies to humor you with responses can’t be healthy. I heard Chronicle is pretty decent. You should like it because the Black guy dies first and all that remains are two European ubermensch. Right up your alley. Goodnight.

    Like


  374. darqbeauty–

    Morality doesn’t change over time. That why the code of Hammurabi and the Commandments are the basis for a lot of modern morality. Rape has always been wrong. Murder has always been wrong. Stealing has always been wrong. Why do you attribute moral fluidity where there is none?

    Some core moral principles don’t change over time, such as the ones you cited, but the details around even them do change. For example, killing a man sleeping with your wife “in flagrante delicto” observing them in the heat of the moment,or in many states her either, either wasn’t criminal, or was low level and punishment manslaughter only a few decades ago.

    Moral principles as to war have changed enormously in the last 7 decades, as opposed to previously, around the world.

    Study up.

    I know what I’m talking about, and don’t lie.

    Might make some mistakes but don’t lie. I also don’t talk out of the top of my hat, without having looked into what I’m stating.

    Like


  375. “Here are a number of arguments against BHM which I heard growing up:

    1. It’s divisive. Rather than serving to unify the country, it encourages separate identities and segregation.”

    I agree with this argument. I racially identify as mixed, but that takes a back seat to my national identity. In my opinion, these historical figures should be presented in the public sphere first and foremost as American citizens as opposed to whites, blacks, Hispanics, etc.

    Like


  376. Northern whites initiated and fought the war with more casualties than all other US wars combined to free the slaves in the southeast.

    Whites passed civil rights legislation in the 1960s that did far more than eliminate Jim Crowe, but created extensive and burdensome laws and regulations against private preferences and discrimination when practiced by whites, but in practice no other race in America.

    Then under Nixon, to show he wasn’t far right, whites created affirmative action, or “positive” discrimination

    And for that I guess we should be grateful. Whites captured and enslaved Africans, got rich by torturing and working the hell out of them, took away people’s rights even after slavery ended, and made it virtually impossible to trace geneology, (The Great IdentityTheft). What REALLY counts, though, is that whites took steps to make everything right. I’m amazed at how, in the face of all the atrocities, some still manage to give themselves a pat on the back. How good and benevolent of them. And all we do is complain and take hand-outs in this “welfare state” we call home. I could go on, but I need to sign off and check the balance on my food stamp card.

    Like


  377. some guy you forget to mention that the blacks were slave traders too

    Like


  378. There is no way for peace without justice.

    And as long as the deluded Whites on here like Doug1 DaveLister Mik argue to the contrary with their typical follies like Blacks complain too much or the transatlantic slave trade hurt whites as much as Blacks then we will be spinning our wheels in mud.

    This is really a fruitless endeavour. Because there is very little fertile ground in their minds.

    Like


  379. Ace what have the blacks built? Except I am the angry black man.

    Like


  380. to help you recoganzie nothing is black and white as you say it is about race. what do you hope to accoplish here where its all ranting and raving> Its off the net where you need to talk to people not scream or act aggressive but TALK One on one

    Like


  381. De plume your crazy! now its the whites fualt for affirmative action someone that helpes the black man and only the black man! Exclude all others who have been interred in prison camps the exclusion act for the chinese but we need to forget all that right for the black experience in america. yeah and some whites are also scrimping by with food stamps you know those upper class white welfare people!

    Like


  382. @ mik

    I like how you vacillate between inflammatory racial remarks and denouncing racism.

    Let me ask YOU a question: What does it matter who has built what in relation to history? This thread is about history not technology nor rapid firing stream of consciousness, inane questions.

    Like


  383. @ doug

    Trying to argue that England was were the industrial revolution began and only because of profits from English slave trading and slave sugar cane plantations in the Caribbean was a major Marxist emotionalist, shaming, thesis, which has been refuted.

    Not the only factor, no. But a major one. And refuted by whom, may I ask?

    Like


  384. From what I’ve seen with Mik’s comments, every reply has been exactly what Abagond talked about in reference to how white people think and reply in topics of race. Tisk, tisk, tisk.

    Like


  385. Someguy how is it not racist when you say its the white establisment? Saying white supermacy? How is that not racist? With saying whites have denied blacks everything?

    Like


  386. @brothawolf:

    From what I’ve seen with Mik’s comments, every reply has been exactly what Abagond talked about in reference to how white people think and reply in topics of race. Tisk, tisk, tisk.

    The interesting thing is Mik has said he’s half white and half Asian, but you can clearly see he identifies as white. Look at all the drunk comments he makes about blacks.

    Like


  387. What you always so conveniently forget Nom De Plume is that the whites doing the enslaving and the whites who dies ending it and the whites who passed affirmative action aren’t the same PEOPLE. Nor are YOU the people who were enslaved. What you are seem to be mostly is a bunch of college-aged book learned pseudo-radicals with pie-in-the-sky ideas that the way forward is for the “white man” to beg forgiveness and kiss your feet. I suggest you look at what usually happened to conquered people in history to see how often that happened – ANYWHERE.

    Like


  388. @JT

    Fertile mind in your case seems to mean “naturally fertilized” with straw as the intended crop. I’m still waiting for justification for your comments on “white superiority”.

    Like


  389. Leigh thank you for the laugh! Tell me what other race can Identify with? The sad thing is I am racially in the same boat as you since my grandparents from my dads sided wouldnt tell us where his relatives were in canton China so we have a tree but no roots

    Like


  390. Darqbeauty

    Why are whites so combative? And why can’t we have our own space? Another poster is right. We are excluded from the mainstream, we complain and are told to get our own. We get our own and our spaces become invaded by individuals who don’t even know WHY they’re there. These spaces become a place for these individuals to try and convince us of our inherent inferiority. To what ends? Why is any critique of them seen as hatred? Why are they so reactionary when it comes to critique? If they are so superior, what do they have to lose just because some darkies are whining about them on a blog?

    I’m no expert, but it seems to me like they have a severe case of a superiority complex associated with extreme boredom. I would also add that they may have a drive to divide and conquer, hence the derailing and typical responses due to a white mindset. They don’t have to come here, but they feel it is their obligation to teach those they deem are inferior to them particularly to build themselves up.

    From what I’ve seen of Mik’s comments, they are very typical and full of misspellings and grammatical errors. Here are a few pieces:

    “…And the blacks are always going to be opressed people.”

    “My god your arrogance know no bounds! You know who was the worst in high school where the blacks.”

    “You will be envious of the white estabisment and yet crave its power and eliteism as you call it”

    “Jt another angry black man? of course! Because of the white establishement!”

    ” blacks want to complain complain complain!”

    “some guy you forget to mention that the blacks were slave traders too”

    “Ace what have the blacks built?”

    “…What do you hope to accoplish here where its all ranting and raving?”

    “…there more racism in the black community then the whites at least whites are not having the comb test Now its margainlziation!”

    See what I mean? I don’t know if you remember a commenter named Lara. Mik’s comments are similar to hers, but not as faulty with spelling and grammar mistakes. A fellow blogger I know would call them drones, as they seem to say similar or reproduced comments.

    And Darq, have you noticed that Doug, Dave Lister, or Mik have hardly answered any questions (if they did indeed answered any honestly) as to why they are here and why are they worked up if they obviously look down upon us? It seems they are more focused on the replies of others, or they want to find more ways to deviate from the forum. But, they can’t answer a simple question! It seems to me that if they are content with their way of thinking, they would have no problem answering instead of avoiding it.

    Like


  391. @Darqbeauty

    Morals have most certainly changed over time. Only a few of the approximately 500 commandments identified in the Hebrew bible are followed by anyone. Slavery was ok in the OT, but eating shellfish was not. There literally hundreds of examples of morals changing throughout history including punishments for many things that would barely be considered crimes today that we would consider atrocious.

    Like


  392. Leigh204,

    “The interesting thing is Mik has said he’s half white and half Asian, but you can clearly see he identifies as white. Look at all the drunk comments he makes about blacks.”

    Yep. It’s apparent that he has pledged his allegiance to the white mind.

    Like


  393. @Leigh . I have heard MANY asians who clearly identify as asian make anti- black comments. It’s not just people who IDENTIFY as white who get caught up in the “American Pastime of Racial Competition”. I know you live in Canada and things might be different up there. I get it mik looks in his pic white and clearly identifies as white, but you are starting to get it twisted.

    Like


  394. Mik

    Leigh thank you for the laugh! Tell me what other race can Identify with? The sad thing is I am racially in the same boat as you since my grandparents from my dads sided wouldnt tell us where his relatives were in canton China so we have a tree but no roots

    Actually, no, you’re not racially in the same boat as I am. I am not half white and half asian. I know where my family comes from. Just because you don’t know where your relatives are from, it doesn’t mean you can’t learn anything about your Asian side. It wouldn’t matter anyway. Being white is more important to you.

    Like


  395. Dave I idenifty with both.

    Like


  396. @brothawolf

    I have answered every question not comprised of straw that has been asked. The dodges are all by people who don’t want to talk about it anymore or who simply don’t like the answers. As far as looking down on you is concerned, that relates to the quality or lack thereof in the opinions expressed, and nothing more.

    I’ve said it before – if a 360 degree onanism session is what you want with no argument, by all means indicate that. Whining at people “why are you here” simply means you aren’t hearing what you want in their opinions. It would be really easy for Abagond, you, or anyone else to create a closed area.

    Like


  397. I’ll say this too, many “anti-white”people, go further to put up an “anti white MALE” persona. I have noticed people who have white father’s are less likely to get caught up in that. I don’t know if mik is one, but I have friends who are mixed with white fathers, and it’s sort of like “DON’T YOU TALK ABOUT MY DADDY AHOLE” attitude which If YOU had an open mind you would understand.

    Like


  398. Leigh please enlighten me how I feel so white and need to be more white? Leigh How can one person find the story of there ancestors when the story is in china and in a forgien lanaguge? Oh you do so where does your family come from?

    Like


  399. @dave:

    @Leigh . I have heard MANY asians who clearly identify as asian make anti- black comments. It’s not just people who IDENTIFY as white who get caught up in the “American Pastime of Racial Competition”. I know you live in Canada and things might be different up there. I get it mik looks in his pic white and clearly identifies as white, but you are starting to get it twisted.

    You’ve heard MANY asians make anti-black comments? How many Asians do YOU know?While I’m sure there are many Asians who do, there are also Asians who don’t. Oh, wait. Because all Asians think alike.Yes, that must be it.

    Like


  400. dave my father is chinese and my mother white

    Like


  401. Its okay according to the rest we are the priveleaged and want the white world even though my family is very racially diverse

    Like


  402. darqbeauty says,

    Why are whites so combative? And why can’t we have our own space? Another poster is right. We are excluded from the mainstream, we complain and are told to get our own. We get our own and our spaces become invaded by individuals who don’t even know WHY they’re there. These spaces become a place for these individuals to try and convince us of our inherent inferiority. To what ends? Why is any critique of them seen as hatred? Why are they so reactionary when it comes to critique? If they are so superior, what do they have to lose just because some darkies are whining about them on a blog?

    laromana says,
    EXCELLENT questions/replies to the BP HATERS.

    Like


  403. Darq Why do you want only america to say sorry for the slave trade when everyone was in it Britain Africa Hawaii South America etc etc. Why should white america have to say sorry when black africans would enslave there own people? Slavery was slavery back then. African also kidnapped blacks and put them on ships to be shipped like cattle to america I dont see Black americans demending africa say sorry only white america

    Like


  404. Dave Lister,

    I’ve said it before – if a 360 degree onanism session is what you want with no argument, by all means indicate that. Whining at people “why are you here” simply means you aren’t hearing what you want in their opinions. It would be really easy for Abagond, you, or anyone else to create a closed area.

    So, in other words you took it upon yourself to come here knowing full well of the kind of blog you would be entering? As such you made it your objective to engage into conversations not only opposite to some, if not most, of your views, but will also bring forth a range of stress, right?

    Here’s the point, Lister…You know what? Nevermind. Let me explain it this way. Doug, Dave, Mik and anyone else who wants to read can check it out:

    As a black man living in small conservative town in the South I know full well that I look like one of two things. One of them is an athlete. The other is a suspect/criminal/felon. I look like the “type” that would cause trouble for no reason other than I’m a ghetto black male.

    Because of that, I know that to walk or drive in certain neighborhoods would arouse suspicion. I know there are some places I can’t go to because I would invite a lot of uncomfortable stares. I know that my very presence would make some whites nervous as hell. So, I keep my distance as best as I can. I try not to look “threatening” even though the only way to do that is to bleach my skin.

    On the other hand, whites can go anywhere they want in my town. I’ve seen some drive through my neighborhood. Some cops who are white males can drive through if they want and the people who get anxious is us. I know I feel that way whenever and wherever I see a patrol car.

    You see Lister, I know that my words and way of thinking are not allowed on sites like Stormfront, Chimpout, Unamused, or GLPiggy’s site. I would get blasted (not literally). I may even be called a troll and end up banned from there.

    Here and on other blogs and forums, I know that my words and way of thinking are accepted because there are others with the same thinking and pain that I have.

    I’m not as knowledgeable as Abagond, Leigh, Darqbeauty, Nom De Plume, Truthbetold, or anyone else, but I’m willing to learn. In a way this is a place of refuge from the world where color is everything. Where my skin is automatically a sin. And where my words are muted so that we hear from someone with little or no knowledge of how it feels to be dehumanized.

    Lister, you, Dave, Doug, and even Mik are like white cops patrolling a black neighborhood. You don’t bring any comfort, only fear. The fear that the world will never change in its attitude towards blacks. That is the reason why, as many white people have said, whine when what we’re really doing is crying in our hearts and souls.

    Sometimes it’s not about who’s right or wrong. Sometimes it’s a need for people like me to escape the stress through online convergence with like minds. Sometimes it’s a way of feeling reassured that the problem is not ‘you’ and that there’s nothing wrong with being black.

    This is why POC get agitated when we read certain comments. You were trying, on purpose or otherwise, to make us feel that we have no reason to feel, react, or think the way we do. As a result it dehumanizes the people you are trying to debate against. Like I said, sometimes we just want to express our pain and frustration. Sometimes we look for a reason why things are the way they are. And sometimes we just want to feel like a human being.

    To come in here and tell us why we’re wrong is an issue no one asked for. Even if it is posted and you don’t agree, that doesn’t mean that you have to start any debates or arguments. You can just move on, say your opinion and move on, or try to understand without telling us why we’re wrong.

    It may sound arrogant to you, but our the opinions, stories, and anguish from blacks and other POC that argue against the mainstream have been largely ignored or silenced, and most of the attempts to fight their stances has been met with more opposition. But on the other hand, any view that agrees with the mainstream is heard with open ears and seen with open eyes. It’s not just a Fox News thing. It’s a part of life here in America.

    There are times for arguments and there are times to listen. I think this blog is dedicated to learning from a people largely left out. But that’s just my opinion.

    You simply can not come in here and not expect any backlash.

    Like


  405. @doug:
    If you think Scandinavian countries are socialist, then we all know that you do not have the intellect or knowledge nor the capacity to understand the most simple concepts. There fore you are a walking epitome of the post, white american who thinks he knows but does not know a poop. I am very very sorry about that, but that is what happens when you grow up under a propaganda and do not have any means for critical thinking.

    Like


  406. @ brothawolf,

    That was so heartfelt and eloquent. I hope it doesn’t fall on deaf ears, but I fear it will. I understand your feeling of frustration that you can’t critique, acknowledge, discuss and analyze without having voices of dubious dissent clamoring to tell you why you are unintelligent, ugly, worthless, criminal, ect. In a space that was created for you to feel safe from the constant barrage of attacks that come from certain people in this country.

    I’m sure your family, my family and most Black families have the same sayings since we mostly hail (those of African diaspora descent) from the South. Here is one you may be familiar with.

    “We can’t have NOTHIN’!”

    Like


  407. @ Randy

    Your response was drowned out, and I almost missed it.

    “So you’re arguing that the cure for X-centric divisiveness is Y-centric divisiveness? How Hammurabic. I’d suggest that the opposite of divisiveness is non-divisiveness.”

    The problem with this formula of yours is that you missed an important factor. Which I outlined in the very same response that you quoted. Which just means that you blatantly ignored it, because it is inarguable. The feelings of divisiveness first came from white people being overly defensive when they are presented with the less flattering aspects of their history, that (imho) are just as important as the flattering ones. Which explains many whites consider BHM to be “Hate Whitey Month”, because they aren’t given any real dosage of humility/reality/perspective when their history is taught to them. Like I said earlier. When white people handle this problem of theirs, the divisiveness will vanish.

    “Those other groups’ months don’t receive the same share of school time or city hall ceremonies as does BHM. You’ve only punted on the question.”

    And once again, that’s not the fault of BHM and is pretty much irrelevant. You’re deflecting the source of the blame of the divisiveness from those who created it and fund BHM, (who could easily promote other groups if they really wanted to) onto those who it’s merely about. Blaming the (for lack of a better word) victim. It’s strange though, that the vast VAST majority of the complaints about BHM stem from non-Irish whites. Rarely (if ever) from other groups who have months that aren’t promoted as much. So really you’re just well-wishing here, and trying to channel your outrage into someone else.

    “According to Sylvia Cyrus-Albritton, director of the Association for the Study of African American Life and History (the organization which originated the precursor to BHM):

    Dr. Woodson hoped that one day there would no longer be a need for Black History Month because it would be incorporated into American history all year round.

    According to historian John Hope Franklin, Woodson “continued to express hope that Negro History Week would outlive its usefulness”.

    You responded to this as if I stated that those feelings were unique to you. It’s no secret that people want BHM to go away, and those people you named wanted it to go away and be incorporated into American history. The problem is that it requires white people to stop being aloof and want the same thing. Since…you know, they are the majority of the population. Once again, whites acting powerless when it helps to make a point.

    “I think you’re projecting about me projecting. One example of a so-called minor figure commonly celebrated by BHM is Muhammad Ali. Great guy, but does he rank up there with the likes of Eli Whitney and Jonas Salk?”

    An amateur attempt at making a mature version of “I know you are but what am I?” This just more projecting on your part. No one actually equates a boxer (who’s mainly hailed as a great athlete) to the the creators of the cotton gin and the Polio vaccine. Reasons that people mention Ali is that boxing is still relevant to American society (whereas Polio isn’t), and that sports are also viewed differently than simple manufacturing. It’s why we don’t have Award Shows for Carbon Filaments. Apparently, you think that simply having a lot of exposure with one thing is somehow equating it with another of a different field. That’s faulty logic.

    This once again goes back to my earlier point of how BADLY defensive white people come to conclusions based on how BADLY they take in information.

    Like


  408. I deleted a wave of comments between little-d dave, Leigh and Mik that had little to do with the post. I left a few of the more substantive ones, the ones that touch on how people of mixed ancestry might relate to whitewashed history. FG made a comment in that vein too.

    Like


  409. Brotha you describing what I feel Every day if I tell someone I am gay will I be chased down and beaten UP! Every day is struggle to tell people do I tell them I am gay and will they understand or be homophobic about it. I am not typical gay person who is all over the place with his hand and stuff. You feel its easy being gay and then chastised for being gay and kissing your boyfriend in public then called a faggot! I have to live with this my entire fucking life! you think you got it bad what about whats happen on the hill congress! I go to hick town or the Ghetto I will be either beaten up or things thrown at me or castrated because i love differently. dude you have the life! When Tracy Morgan Isssiah Washington Eriq La salle learn what it is too be gay then I will give the rights of black man! I couldnt even have enough nerve to ask this hot jewish guy out because its morally wrong for gay man to love! you feel nervous about in the deep south what about the suburbs or the city where you can walk freely tell me you think it easy for gay people! YOu would think blacks would be more accepting there the most homophobic people in the world! If I was holding hands with another guy there is always the fear of one bigot black or white going after me!

    Try being in the gay mans shoes! Shit you would commit suicide over being gay!

    Like


  410. Mik, what are you talking about? Gays can get married in a number of states now.

    Like


  411. Gay rights and being gay are off topic here.

    Like


  412. Sam–

    If you think Scandinavian countries are socialist, then we all know that you do not have the intellect or knowledge nor the capacity to understand the most simple concepts. There fore you are a walking epitome of the post, white american who thinks he knows but does not know a poop. I am very very sorry about that, but that is what happens when you grow up under a propaganda and do not have any means for critical thinking.

    What a ridiculous comment.

    There are somewhat different definitions of what constitutes socialism. In the Scandinavian countries the states does not by and large own most of the means of production, which seems to be the definition you’re using, in your lame effort to assert intellectual superiority.

    However the Scandinavian countries are high tax, high redistributionist welfare states, though vary amongst themselves a bit. All of Western Europe is that to a degree, but less so than Scandinavia. The US has become that also to a lesser degree than Western Europe since the 1960s, mostly to help blacks. For this they have zero gratitude, as for everything else.

    Like


  413. *state

    Like


  414. So this blog is on GMT???

    Abagond is a NYer, isn’t he?

    Like


  415. Brothawolf said:

    ” Sometimes it’s a way of feeling reassured that the problem is not ‘you’ and that there’s nothing wrong with being black.”

    I agree with that. It underlies much of what I write.

    I also agree that whites would get ten times more out of this blog and others like it if they could shut up the “white is right” voice in their head and LISTEN. For once.

    On the other hand:

    I do believe in an unfiltered exchange of opinion so long as it remains civil enough to allow the discussion to progress. That set-up has taught me stuff about white racism that I could not have learned in any other way, or at least not so quickly. Offline discussions like this with white people last for about five minutes, if that. Their need to Control Reality takes over. Here they cannot do that, though they try.

    Like


  416. @abagond:

    I deleted a wave of comments between little-d dave, Leigh and Mik that had little to do with the post. I left a few of the more substantive ones, the ones that touch on how people of mixed ancestry might relate to whitewashed history. FG made a comment in that vein too.

    Thank you. The exchanges between us were getting out of hand and off topic. My apologies.

    Like


  417. @ Doug1

    Wow, not only do you tell blacks what to think about blacks, you tell a Scandinavian what to think about Scandinavia! And this from someone who does not even understand his own White America, in part because he drank the Kool-Aid in history class.

    Like


  418. @ Doug1

    This is the World-Wide Web, not New York.

    Like


  419. @ brothawolf

    You touched my heart this morning.
    You are safe with your people.
    We have you.

    @ abagond

    May I say that as a mixed race black woman I too have felt “conflicted” with white history. Perhaps because I grew up in another country and continue to go back, I see things differently.

    In America, perhaps only in America, white teachers have taught us that the white American culture is responsible for any and all major achievements. The only time we ever learned about blacks in history is by briefly mentioning MLK or Thurgood Marshall. Natives were non existent except for Sitting Bull.

    It wasn’t til adulthood that I began to read and ask deeper questions about my heritage that I realized that we built this country and got nothing to show for it.
    When I hear about how Lincoln freed the slaves and how whites gave us so many opportunities like affirmative action…and how we should be glad, even grateful that we were allowed to remain here…I’m stunned. Whites grew rich because of us and we should be grateful? Am I missing something?

    How come we never heard about other things whites gave us, like redlining, sundown towns, Jim Crow and the real reason for jim Crow ( white women ), lynchings, etc?
    Why only the good is displayed and the bad swept under the rug?
    I’m not going to say that the UK is innocent, we are surely NOT.
    But, please tell me why other countries have ATTEMPTED to move forward with skin colour and we simply can’t?

    Even today, in most classrooms, white history is taught as a knowing, almost smug, see-I-told-you-we’re-better way.
    Black history is a burden.
    One month, out of 12, is a burden.
    Then the complaints start why it’s not fair.

    Whites seem to want to conquer everything, have everything, own everything, be ahead of everyone. Still they complain.

    Why is everything never enough?

    Like


  420. ^ Because they are behaving like vampires who keep sucking your blood until nothing is left but a husk.

    Like


  421. ” The US has become that also to a lesser degree than Western Europe since the 1960s, mostly to help blacks. For this they have zero gratitude, as for everything else.”

    WOW.
    Again, wow.

    First of all, the concept of welfare, as to my understanding, was created after WWII to assist soldiers after returning home. If I am wrong, someone please correct me.

    Affirmative action was created primarily for women, mostly white women.
    If I am wrong please correct me.

    WIC, food stamps and other government handouts are being used primarily by whites, white women.
    If I am wrong please correct me.

    Perhaps the history of this country being whitewashed and morally sound and the media portraying coloureds as downtrodden has a lot to do with this mindset.

    Like


  422. @Brothawolf

    I’m not as knowledgeable as Abagond, Leigh, Darqbeauty, Nom De Plume, Truthbetold, or anyone else, but I’m willing to learn.

    I beg to differ Brotha. You bring something honest and true to these discussions, that of your OWN experiences. Of course knowledge of history is important and has its place but just because you are not necessarily quoting verbatim from books does not make your version or story any less important valid or real.

    The whole post has been subltly derailed by a couple of individuals ‘flexing’ and ‘puffing’ out their chests on here trying to demonstrate how knowledgeable and well read they are whilst boasting and how much their forefathers did and in some odd way, trying to take credit for it due to the fact they share the same skin tone!!!!!!.

    Unwittingly, this has become ‘White History Post’ and all it says to me is that the individuals who boast so much and take great pains to memorise all the things of note that their forefathers did have done nothing credible or of note in the here and now. It is a smokescreen cos I tell you what, if they felt they had done something that would make a difference in the hear and now, then we would ALL be hearing about it.

    Like


  423. “What you always so conveniently forget Nom De Plume is that the whites doing the enslaving and the whites who dies ending it and the whites who passed affirmative action aren’t the same PEOPLE.
    #############################################

    Actually, Abraham Lincoln did both. With a smile on his face.

    But to the bigger point: why is it that it took Whites to pass both? How might that manifest today?

    ###################
    Nor are YOU the people who were enslaved. What you are seem to be mostly is a bunch of college-aged book learned pseudo-radicals with pie-in-the-sky ideas that the way forward is for the “white man” to beg forgiveness and kiss your feet. I suggest you look at what usually happened to conquered people in history to see how often that happened – ANYWHERE.”
    ###############

    The dream of social justice should be dismissed as an ideal because history won’t permit it? Would that have made sense to Rosa Parks?

    Would that make sense to Rodney King?

    Would that make sense to Henry Louis Gates?

    To limit ourselves (Blacks and their allies) to what has been done before?

    What if people aren’t satisfied with that?

    What if the past, and the status quo continue to wreak all sorts of injustice on Black generations present and Black generations future.

    What then, Dave Lister?

    Like


  424. ####
    To come in here and tell us why we’re wrong is an issue no one asked for. Even if it is posted and you don’t agree, that doesn’t mean that you have to start any debates or arguments. You can just move on, say your opinion and move on, or try to understand without telling us why we’re wrong.

    It may sound arrogant to you, but our the opinions, stories, and anguish from blacks and other POC that argue against the mainstream have been largely ignored or silenced, and most of the attempts to fight their stances has been met with more opposition. But on the other hand, any view that agrees with the mainstream is heard with open ears and seen with open eyes. It’s not just a Fox News thing. It’s a part of life here in America.

    There are times for arguments and there are times to listen. I think this blog is dedicated to learning from a people largely left out. But that’s just my opinion.

    You simply can not come in here and not expect any backlash
    ####

    @ Brothawolf

    Beautifully put. Intelligence, sincerity and truth in every syllable of that post. It strongly affected me reading it. Thank you. =)

    Like


  425. @ Truth

    “When I hear about how Lincoln freed the slaves and how whites gave us so many opportunities like affirmative action…and how we should be glad, even grateful that we were allowed to remain here…I’m stunned. Whites grew rich because of us and we should be grateful? Am I missing something?”

    You are not the one who is missing something.

    Like


  426. @Mik:

    “De plume your crazy! now its the whites fualt for affirmative action someone that helpes the black man and only the black man!”

    You’re right, Mik. Black people are so ungrateful. Oh and I almost forgot, white people rock.

    @DaveLister:

    “What you always so conveniently forget Nom De Plume is that the whites doing the enslaving and the whites who dies ending it and the whites who passed affirmative action aren’t the same PEOPLE. Nor are YOU the people who were enslaved.”

    Right. Whites as a whole are not benefitting from the vestiges of slavery, and blacks as a whole are not suffering the effects from it. Thanks for the reminder.

    “What you are seem to be mostly is a bunch of college-aged book learned pseudo-radicals with pie-in-the-sky ideas that the way forward is for the “white man” to beg forgiveness and kiss your feet.”

    That statement makes me think you’re a ‘Get off my lawn!’ kind of guy. And it sounds like you’ve decided what demographic most of us belong to. I don’t know any of the commenters here, but I think you’re off base. BTW, I’m under no illusion that whites in general have any kind of remorse about past and present wrongs.

    Like


  427. I like how whites are supposed to have this amazing intelligence and yet are unable to make much money from working millions of people to the bone for free for hundreds of years! And yet soon after the industrial revolution comes out of thin air! In the very places that made most of the money from slavery (Britain, France, the American North – not sure what was up with Brazil and Portugal).

    I also like how when they do something good, like invent the light bulb, it is something no one else could possibly do! Except maybe NE Asians. And yet when they do something bad, like genocide or slavery, the first thing out of their mouths is: “Everyone does it!” They are cool with being amazingly good but not with being amazingly evil.

    I am so so SO glad that the future will see through all these pathetic lies. Whites are less than a fourth of mankind and their power will not last forever – and therefore their lies will not last forever.

    Like


  428. @doug:
    Well, just check how the USA and its taxation policies go hand in hand. In 1950’s when USA was without the question the biggest, most powerful, most advanced and richest nation on earth, it also had one of the highest taxation anywhere. It had one of the best public school systems, health care system etc.

    And look: once USA began to peel off the taxation of companies and the rich, it has been on a down hill ever since. Nixon government decided to privatise health care and it has been a national catastrophe which is costing untold billions for the national economy. Running down the publich school system has catastrophic results too, costing billions annualy.

    Do not believe me. Just check the records. There you go.

    On the subject, the white washing of your history has also had catastrophic results. Unlike USA, Germany was and is honest of its history, dark days of nazism, holocaust etc. Results? Just check. No need to believe leftist commie like me😀

    Like


  429. @JT

    “The dream of social justice should be dismissed as an ideal because history won’t permit it? Would that have made sense to Rosa Parks?”

    There are the dreamers, and then there are the practical doers. Rosa Parks wasn’t preaching about the bad white man, she engaged in a practical way the injustice that confronted her. I admire that.

    “Would that make sense to Rodney King?”

    Depends on whether or not he was drunk and stoned at the time.

    “Would that make sense to Henry Louis Gates?”

    Heh! I think you’ll find that Gates is lot closer to my views than he is to the bulk of the people here.

    Like


  430. @ Dave Lister

    Gates is an embarrassment who’s proficient in being an apologist for white people and giving them a free pass. It’s no surprise that you agree with him.

    Like


  431. ” I am so so SO glad that the future will see through all these pathetic lies. Whites are less than a fourth of mankind and their power will not last forever – and therefore their lies will not last forever.”

    Ladies and Gentlemen,

    That quote from Abagond is the foundation for white fear and loathing for blacks.

    Like


  432. SomeGuy–

    Not the only factor, no. But a major one. And refuted by whom, may I ask?

    The study by economic historians that I linked to, for one. Unfortunately all but the abstract is behind a pay wall.

    No, money from the slave trade had no bearing on the beginnings of the industrial revolution in England. It was a small part of the English economy. The IR would have happened if there’d been no African slave trade. What was necessary was invention. That had started near the beginning and at the middle of the 18th century, with increasingly mechanized machinery for weaving cloth, power by streams and drivers.

    Like


  433. “Whites are less than a fourth of mankind and their power will not last forever – and therefore their lies will not last forever.’

    That’s why we’re hearing all the hate, fear and “othering” rhetoric, especially in the media. The U.S. is becoming more and more ethnically diverse. The East (China) is rising, and it’s looking like the West may no longer have the prominent role it once enjoyed. But instead of trying to learn from this and become more flexible in order to adapt to the new world we live in, many are choosing instead to demonize in an attempt to hold on to “our way of life.” As much as they may want to go back to the good ol’ days, it ain’t gonna happen. Things will never be as they were.

    Like


  434. Abagond–

    Wow, not only do you tell blacks what to think about blacks, you tell a Scandinavian what to think about Scandinavia!

    How hypocritical! You tell whites what to think about whites all the freakin time.

    As well I was simply explaining what I meant when I said Scandinavian countries were considerably more socialistic than the US. Which shouldn’t have been necessary. Actually I’m quite sure it wasn’t, it’s how the term socialistic is often used, including by political parties naming themselves that in part, such as “Democratic Socialists”, etc. He was merely taking a cheap and rather childish shot.

    Like


  435. @Truthbetold:

    Co-sign! No matter what, lies have a way of coming to the surface. It does take time, but the truth comes out eventually.

    Like


  436. @ doug

    So, a few European “economic historians” came to a conclusion that favored their autonomy from the gains of the transatlantic slave trade? No, that’s not suspicious at all.

    Like


  437. @Abagond

    “And yet soon after the industrial revolution comes out of thin air! In the very places that made most of the money from slavery (Britain, France, the American North – not sure what was up with Brazil and Portugal).”

    That’s because you are confusing cause and effect. The industrial revolution was coming regardless of slavery. The colonialism of Europeans was due to the need/want to feed the machine with raw materials. The industrial revolution started in earnest with textiles (such as cotton), and lastly, still going on to this day, in agriculture. Countries such as Germany ended up being more successful in the industrial revolution than France or England without slavery involved. Brazil and Portugal point out why you incorrectly swap cause and effect.

    “I also like how when they do something good, like invent the light bulb, it is something no one else could possibly do! Except maybe NE Asians. And yet when they do something bad, like genocide or slavery, the first thing out of their mouths is: “Everyone does it!” :

    Anyone could have invented the lightbulb – anyone that had made the effort to understand and harness electric power. Was there a need for nomadic cultures to do so? Urban cultures industrialized because they needed to, but nomadic cultures simply cease to be nomadic if they adopt the needs of the urban culture. I think it’s probably a mistake to assign moral values to things like inventions. In history these are driven by needs and the environment, not by moral imperatives. I also don’t subscribe to urban culture being better.

    What urban cultures have done is come up with rules for people to live together in tight dense clots. In Japan those rules resulted in highly formal politeness and exacting obedience, historically. In the West, it has resulted in a lot of trial and error on rules and ideas as the morals evolved. All of them became to a greater or lesser degree xenophobic as part of the initial rules forcing conformity in alleviating stresses.

    Nearly every culture has in the past has done it (slavery) and far worse. I’ve got no issue at all with knowing/teaching that America was awfully involved in events that were atrocious. The problem comes with making it into something it wasn’t – an aberration. As terrible as it was, it wasn’t an aberration, and trying to paint it so is not historical – it is merely political. Claiming there is something uniquely wrong with whites for that is merely ignoring/hiding the fact that there was something wrong with everyone that engaged in such atrocities – which included everyone except perhaps the Aboriginal Australians. I can look at the past and say it was wrong for the Egyptians and Babylonians to enslave the Hebrews, the Mongols/Turks/Berbers to enslave the Europeans, the Romans to enslave everyone else, the Europeans/American/Arabs to enslave Africans, the Africans/Russians/Native Americans to enslave themselves without any contradiction. Saying that doesn’t make slavery right(er), it says that apparently the “morals” of those peoples and eras didn’t have much issue with it. Why didn’t they? I don’t know why. Did everyone lack empathy? Why did empathy seem to develop only recently in history? Are morals derived from nothing but economics?

    Like


  438. @Franklin

    In other words he doesn’t agree with you and the politics you espouse.

    I don’t agree with him on everything, nor did I bring him up in this context, but he does represent a point of view – his own.

    Like


  439. “I am so so SO glad that the future will see through all these pathetic lies. Whites are less than a fourth of mankind and their power will not last forever – and therefore their lies will not last forever.”

    ************************************

    That’s assuming that there’s a future to speak of. These arrogant/intelligent(?) people with a Borg-like mentality have the means to end ALL life on Earth as we know it.

    Abagond,it’s important to understand and remember – whites are the only group on the planet to use (and control MOST) nuclear/atomic weaponry. The evidence that these people love making war to control/take/steal everything in the last 500 years is indisputable. The Pentagon spends more on war than all 50 states combined spend on health, education, welfare, and safety. The U.S. has 5% of the world’s population — but almost 50% of the world’s total military expenditure.

    We HAVE the POWER. but WE WON’T utilize it.

    What would happen if every black man, woman and child in America refused to work and refused to conduct any financial transactions/purchases for just one week – say, the third week of March 2012? The realist/pessimist in me acknowledges that all/most of us, sadly, would never get on that same page — but imagine the impact and tremors that shock would cause the financial system!

    White people, elitists/controllers/cartels, would be falling all over themselves to hear and respond to our collective concerns/grievances regarding our experience in America in order to keep their economy from total collapse. They’d be more open to the idea of reparations, coming to terms with America’s racist past and more motivated to making wrong things right.

    Yup, this is a pipe-dream, as even Black Americans are too fractured as a group to come together in this fashion for everyone’s common good. There are too many of us that have swallowed the blue pill – and are quite happy living in the illusion/delusion of the American dream.

    Like


  440. @ Dave Lister

    No, I’m afraid it’s because most people, who are far more credible and knowledgeable disagree with him. As for me personally, I tend to disagree with him when he’s in apologist mode and ignores all contradictory facts. But even (as rare as it is) when someone like Gates is right, I’m inclined to agree with him.

    Like


  441. Nom De Plume

    “The East (China) is rising, and it’s looking like the West may no longer have the prominent role it once enjoyed.”

    Which is natural – there are far more Chinese. However, that rise will bring things that aren’t desirable, such as Chinese politics, and a wage system that makes us look downright heavenly. Note also that their rise is due to their trade with us. Until they develop their internal markets, they need us as trading partners more than we need them.

    Like


  442. Truthbetold–

    You’re not living up to your name. Not telling a lot of truth. Here ya go:

    Truthbetold—

    First of all, the concept of welfare, as to my understanding, was created after WWII to assist soldiers after returning home. If I am wrong, someone please correct me.

    The GI bill was not welfare. It was repayment to solders for having fought individually often for years in the war seriously risking their lives, often under very tough conditions. It was primarily some tuition money for college for those ex soldiers that wanted to go, and also some housing money for soldiers generally. Their pay during the war had been low, and they’d had no opportunity to save up for down payments, etc. Part of the reason for the GI bill was also to divert some returning soldiers to universities to keep them from all flooding the labor market at once.

    There is no question that LBJ had blacks in mind when he pushed through federal welfare legislation including Medicaid in the 1960’s, though he did say that he had poor rural whites in mind to try to make it more popular and to lessen white resentment. It went hand in hand and was pushed and sold hand in hand with the rest of the civil rights laws. It was most definitely aimed at helping blacks. Of course over the medium and long term it ended up hurting a great many blacks, leaving them in a culture of dependency, and leading to broken homes, and sky high rates of black single mothers from the get go.

    Affirmative action was created primarily for women, mostly white women.
    If I am wrong please correct me.

    Totally wrong. Nixon started it as a government sponsored program in 1980, aimed at blacks. It was actually began before that voluntarily by liberal white elites at leading universities such as the University of California (see the 1978 Supreme Court Bakke decision which upheld it but only if it wasn’t done on a strict quota basis).

    It was most definitely started first and primarily to help blacks. Then women of all races, lead it’s true by white feminists, glommed onto it and said us too!! It’s a black talking point that more white women than blacks have benefited from it, but that’s dubious. White women are fully competitive with white men in college admissions and were when AA started, just fewer of them wanted to go back then.

    WIC, food stamps and other government handouts are being used primarily by whites, white women.

    If I am wrong please correct me.

    You’re wrong. They’re used about half and half by blacks and whites, but since there are six times as many whites as blacks in the US, they’re used about 6x as often per capita by blacks. Whites tend to be on such programs for considerably shorter average periods of time than blacks do.

    And yes they’re used primarily by women. Most governmental transfers are from taxed men to beneficiary women.

    Like


  443. @Franklin

    Who is far more credible and knowledgeable? (Serious question so I can read up). I don’t know much about credibility and knowledge outside the sciences and engineering as economics and history are so heavily intertwined with politics. In engineering and sciences something either works or it doesn’t.

    Like


  444. Abagond—

    I also like how when they do something good, like invent the light bulb, it is something no one else could possibly do! Except maybe NE Asians. And yet when they do something bad, like genocide or slavery, the first thing out of their mouths is: “Everyone does it!”

    We say the second sentence because it’s true, and you can’t refute that it’s true. You and leftist whites just want to hold whites to a higher standard, or at least ignore and never mention folks like Ghengis Khan, the Assyrians, the Ottoman Turks and so on. Or for that matter Shaka Zulu and his “land thefts” and massacres.

    With the amendment to NE Asians the first sentence is more or less true as well. I’d not say that no one else could do the massive number of innovations and creations that made the modern world soup to nuts over the last 550 years, only that no one else did. Also historically, aside from Euros and NE Asians, the only other peoples that created truly world leading civilizations were maybe the Indians. I don’t think they’re really on a par with the first two but they’ve got some impressive stuff to their credit. The Arabs were pretty good for awhile too in Damascus, Baghdad and in Cordoba and Grenada in the Spanish el Andalus.

    Like


  445. @Matari

    So Matari, given what you say about the military expenditures are true, and I oppose them, and the warlike etc nature of whites, which I agree and disagree with:

    What exactly was stopping us/them from actually taking/stealing/genociding etc everything else on the planet in reality, not just in rhetoric?

    Like


  446. @Doug1

    It seems that most of the Islamic Golden Age was due to the Persians (who adopted a lot of Arabic names along with Islam), not the Arabs themselves who never were particularly numerous or urban.

    Like


  447. “Totally wrong. Nixon started it as a government sponsored program in 1980, aimed at blacks. It was actually began before that voluntarily by liberal white elites at leading universities such as the University of California (see the 1978 Supreme Court Bakke decision which upheld it but only if it wasn’t done on a strict quota basis). ”

    ***********************************

    I wonder who died and left YOU in charge of being knowledgeable of recent historical facts – or anything else?

    Especially of facts that any average second grader with an Internet connection could refute. Your first sentence is SO WRONG, in more ways than I care to dispute.

    The fact that anyone here actually engages you is nothing short of amazing!
    I take that back.. on second thought some of us here are clearly bored with not much else better to do.

    Like


  448. @ Dave Lister

    So Matari, given what you say about the military expenditures are true, and I oppose them, and the warlike etc nature of whites, which I agree and disagree with:

    What exactly was stopping us/them from actually taking/stealing/genociding etc everything else on the planet in reality, not just in rhetoric?

    Whites waiting too long to make a global power move. So many non-Whites have the technology to eradicate not only Europe and America, but the entire planet. White culture might be aggressive, but it’s not suicidal. It’s not about destroying, it’s about domination.

    Would Blacks do the same thing if roles were reversed? Probably. But then our roles on this blog would be reversed as well.

    Like


  449. @SomeGuy

    You didn’t answer the question. There was a long period when they could have. Why didn’t they?

    Like


  450. I am 16 and yea, I like Truthbetold’s ideas on race. I agree with her 100%. Yes in American History class, all they teach is White history. It is STILL like that!They hardly talk about Natives, Blacks like me, Hispanics, and other POC.I didn’t know about the sundown towns unil this website posted it.I thank God for Abagond for posting the truth. It was then that I started to look up History and uncover all the lies.

    Truthbetold, Jim Crow did come about because of the ”beautiful, innocent” White women that White men wanted to protect from ”savage brutes”- Black men. You are right on that.

    As for BrothaWolf, I feel for you because everyday I have to live with Whites looking down on me at school, and everywhere.

    Recently my Chemistry teacher(A White women) accused me of forging a signature. I didn’t.( I know Dave, Doug1 wouldn’t believe me.)I wasn’t that shocked would accuse me because she has this racist way about her. Kind of like how Abagond wrote a post about well meaning Whites.

    Whites can go and travel everywhere they want to. Blacks have to keep an eye out for themselves constantly because some people think Blacks who travel around their neighborhood are trespassing and will have that Black person kicked out permantently. I know this because I am a Black girl.

    Dave Lister and Doug1,

    Hahah, I know you are laughing at me and my comments because you guy think, how dare this little Black girl who barey knows anything comment on this thread? However I learning how America’s racial system works and everything. Like BrothaWolf said, he may not be as knowledged as the others as well as I am not as knowledgable as the others but I am learning as well as BrothaWolf. Thanks for your comment and input, BrothaWolf and Truthbetold.

    Like


  451. Doug, you don’t understand how it is like to be a person of color or experience racism. I do. You don’t. I am from New York and there is still racists there and everywhere in America whether they are White, Black, Latino etc.

    Like


  452. Someguy–

    So, a few European “economic historians” came to a conclusion that favored their autonomy from the gains of the transatlantic slave trade? No, that’s not suspicious at all.

    It was European, and I believe British, Marxists who came up with the theory you espouse.

    I’ve read the same thing I said years before from a credible historian, but don’t remember who.

    What’s far less credible is the demonizing whites and only whites, always or almost always without any links, which is the stock in trade of this board and it’s simpatico commenters.

    Like


  453. @Dave Lister:

    “Until they develop their internal markets, they need us as trading partners more than we need them.’

    I understand how it works. When I mentioned that China is rising, I wasn’t implying that China and the U.S. don’t have a mutually dependent relationship when it comes to trade. Nor was I implying that China doesn’t have it’s political and socio-economic shortcomings. That said, China is still rising and is becoming a force to be reckoned with. And the West knows it.

    In an attempt to stay on topic, that’s all I will say re: China for now.

    Like


  454. @Soul Sista

    I’m not laughing. Nor do I have anything much to say about your chem teacher issue, as you didn’t give enough information to even know what occurred. It would be helpful to know what she said you forged the signature on, and what she does that you describe as a racist way. What was the eventual outcome? I’m sure such people exist, though why they become teachers is a mystery.

    Like


  455. @ Dave Lister

    War is expensive and has always been. Especially when machines and other types of technology were added to it. It would have been financial suicide for them to take on the whole world.

    Like


  456. @ Soul Sista

    We learn from each other.

    Like


  457. @ Soul Sista / Adeen

    You do not appear to be pulling a sock puppet move, but please stick to one name, whatever it is, or I will ban you.

    Like


  458. @Franklin

    If you go back to Matari’s post, that is exactly what she accuses whites of doing.

    Like


  459. Really? So no one else has noticed that any white researcher Doug1 disagrees with is either a “Lefty” or a Marxist?

    Like


  460. @Nom De Plume

    Of course the West knows it – it is inescapable. The question is how much disruption will occur as a result. China has been flexing its muscles lately in the UN on Syria, and refuses to on North Korea, in spite of the West’s desire for China to use its influence in positive ways. Are you ok with the the Chinese foreign policy except for Taiwan being entirely economically driven?

    Like


  461. @ Dave Lister

    I don’t believe there was any period of time where Europeans could have destroyed every non-European on the planet without committing suicide as well.

    Like


  462. Truthbetold—

    Even today, in most classrooms, white history is taught as a knowing, almost smug, see-I-told-you-we’re-better way.

    The accomplishments of whites and blacks haven’t been remotely at the same level, is the simple fact of the matter.

    It’s like you all are looking for quotas in the retelling of history too.

    Forget about it.

    Like


  463. @ Dave Lister

    I’m pretty sure she was referring to the “intent” seeing as how non-whites still exist in the world. Which wouldn’t have been the case if whites were able to go through with it.

    Like


  464. @ doug

    Well, doug, then I guess it boils down to who you wish to believe. Take your pick, there are many flavors of kool-aid to choose from. And for the record, my original argument had nothing to do with the industrial revolution. It had to do with the period from 1500-1800 and the stability and security of Europe at the time. Although, I’m pretty much done with the issue.

    Like


  465. Soul Sista—

    Yes in American History class, all they teach is White history. It is STILL like that!They hardly talk about Natives, Blacks like me, Hispanics, and other POC.

    The American history I took in high school even decades ago certainly did talk about Amerindians more than a tiny amount, but it’s true mostly about conflicts with them. Sure most of American history is about stuff that was white lead because that’s what actually happened. The country was 90% white until 1970, and about entirely white lead (except for some mayors), when the 1965 immigration law started kicking in. The founding fathers and leaders of the revolutionary war were all white men, though Abagail Adams gets mentioned. Blacks come up in fights over the Constitution and also in the events leading to the Civil War. Also during the Reconstruction period in the South, and the civil rights period.

    Hispanics were a very small part of the population until about three decades ago. I can’t think of much of importance for America generally that Hispanics have lead.

    You don’t get quotas of the truth. Whites are the ones who built America (unskilled and low skilled labor is a dime a dozen all over the world), and invented almost everything of great significance that Americans have invented.

    Like


  466. @SomeGuy

    I agree. But I don’t see why you continue to dodge the point of the issue. They had the ability and according to Matari the motivation to do FAR more than they did. Note that even she hasn’t been able to defend her rhetoric.

    @Franklin

    I don’t think the intent was anything other than economic, which seems to pervade most all of history. I don’t see any benevolence in why they didn’t, nor do I see anything approaching the malevolence Matari likes to claim.

    Like


  467. Someguy—

    Well, doug, then I guess it boils down to who you wish to believe. Take your pick, there are many flavors of kool-aid to choose from. A

    No, there are facts, which can often be dispositive in historical arguments. I wish that article I linked wasn’t behind a pay wall, because given the journal in which it was published, I imagine there were lots of numbers backing up their argument, unlike in most of the Marxist papers on your side of that argument, which tend to just try to make the money flows from the slave trade look large, without comparing them to other money flows in the British economy. As well Marxist have a bad reputation for lying and seriously fudging the truth. Lenin even encouraged artful lying to advance the greater class good.

    Like


  468. @ Dave Lister

    The reason I don’t want to get deep into the issue is because it’s one of conjecture. There is no way we can verify it one way or the other. What will happen is, I will say “The glass is half empty” the you will say “No, the glass is half full.” and we will BOTH be none the wiser with headaches. It’s not worth wasting our time.

    Like


  469. Abagond–

    achievements of people of colour – you know, like civilization, writing, iron, geometry, or like even clothing – are played down, taken for granted or just never get brought up for some reason.

    Blacks invented none of that. Caucasians and in the case of non rudimentary geometry whites (Greeks), invented all of it. Clothing of some sort has been around from hunter gatherer days and is hardly a major civilizational invention.

    Egyptians, Middle Easterners and early man, meanwhile, become honorary whites for particular periods of history.

    Egyptians and Middle Easterners were Caucasians, not Europeans aka whites, and history as taught in the US and the UK never pretended they were “honorary whites”.

    This is purely emotional grievance writing.

    Like


  470. @SomeGuy

    What we may agree on is the amount of water – a quantitative measure. Half-full vs half-empty are emotional/qualitative.

    Like


  471. @ doug

    Egyptians and Middle Easterners were Caucasians, not Europeans aka whites, and history as taught in the US and the UK never pretended they were “honorary whites”.

    There is no such thing as a “Caucasian”, unless you are referring to someone from the Caucus mountains. Stop using 19th Century antiquated terminology. The only field of science that would even use that term nowadays is Forensics, which deals mostly in LEGAL matters.

    Like


  472. @ Dave Lister

    What we may agree on is the amount of water – a quantitative measure. Half-full vs half-empty are emotional/qualitative.

    You are asking me a “why” question. How is that quantitative?

    Like


  473. Which parts of which cities are safe for which races is off topic. If anyone wants to know my opinion that they can read my post on Monday.

    Like


  474. @SomeGuy

    What facts exist to explain “why”? Documentation, artifacts, etc.

    Why does the sun shine? Because some umpteen million tons of hydrogen are fused every second.

    Like


  475. Sorry i have to say but your icon cracks me up SomeGuy. Genius, man.

    Dave Lister –

    Do you think diminishing the cause of justice by others’ cause for justice makes sense?

    Would the murderer of a child be in a position to tell the mother of that child not to grieve because many other children have been murdered prior to that child?

    You seem to be emotionally deficient and logically incapacitated. Which wouldn’t be altogether bad, unless you were actually forthright about it.

    Like


  476. Abagond—

    I am so so SO glad that the future will see through all these pathetic lies. Whites are less than a fourth of mankind and their power will not last forever – and therefore their lies will not last forever.

    What pathetic lies have non leftie white historians made in the last 30 years abagond?

    The lies I uncover all the time are leftie ones, from feminists and others.

    Like


  477. SomeGuy—

    The only field of science that would even use that term nowadays is Forensics, which deals mostly in LEGAL matters.

    Wrong. It’s used by historians all the time, and by population geneticists as well. There’s a move towards substituting the term Western Eurasians to mean exactly the same groups, but its PC nonsense. If anyone ever found the term offensive as it’s most definitely still commonly used, it’s people in the Caucasus mountain area or those that study them, which is a very small part of the world population set.

    So bug off.

    Like


  478. Sam—

    Well, just check how the USA and its taxation policies go hand in hand.

    This is completely and utterly WAY WAY off topic, so I’m not going to address that comment. There’s plenty I could say however.

    Naturally because it’s coming from your side of the divide on this thread, Abagond lets it go.

    Like


  479. @ Dave Lister

    Well, I looked up the word quantitative and it said “of or pertaining to the describing or measuring of quantity.” So, I still don’t understand the correlation between that definition and your question of why Whites didn’t eliminate the other races in the past. However, I will answer your question despite this and probably not comment on it further:

    I don’t know.

    @ JT

    Thanks, man.:)

    Like


  480. @JT

    Your allegory is severely deficient (as usual). Nobody here has murdered/enslaved anyone, nor has anyone here had a child murdered/enslaved (apologies if someone here has ACTUALLY had a child murdered). What we have here are people using other people that for the most part they didn’t even know to complain about their economic status.

    YOU are in no position to talk about logic to anyone, given your ridiculous allegory and persistent undefended strawman construction. If there is an emotional problem, you seem to be incapable of rational thought due to emotion excluding all else.

    As far as justice is concerned, in the West, crimes are not inherited. Most people don’t inherit anything else as well. We might as well revisit every crime in history if that’s what you consider justice. For those who believe in a god, they also believe there will be justice.

    Like


  481. Wrong. It’s used by historians all the time, and by population geneticists as well. There’s a move towards substituting the term Western Eurasians to mean exactly the same groups, but its PC nonsense. If anyone ever found the term offensive as it’s most definitely still commonly used, it’s people in the Caucasus mountain area or those that study them, which is a very small part of the world population set.

    So you say. It’s not exactly true, but so you say. It’s more likely, you WANT it to be true. You probably think those scientists that eschew the term are Marxists, don’t you?

    So bug off.

    Have I touched a nerve, booboo?

    Like


  482. @SomeGuy

    I don’t know either, but what I do know is that they didn’t stop where they did because they were forced to.

    The term quantitative refers to a type of information based in quantities or else quantifiable data (objective properties) —as opposed to qualitative information which deals with apparent qualities (subjective properties).

    Like


  483. @ Dave Lister

    I don’t know either, but what I do know is that they didn’t stop where they did because they were forced to.

    I think they were forced, but not by something external, but by something internal.:)

    Like


  484. darqbeauty–

    darqbeauty

    LOL @ Conquering versus stealing!

    Is this the same as looting versus finding ala Katrina?

    Learn some history. Aggressive territory conquering and keeping war wasn’t considered necessarily wrong or immoral all around the world until after WWII and the founding of the UN and its charter, under American leadership, after which it most certainly was consider immoral and in fact an international crime in violation of the UN Charter. America has sometimes lead coalitions to support that international law, generally after security counsel votes, and has always threatened to do so, which the world’s countries are well aware of.

    To some extent this change in international feeling happened after WWI and it’s terrible carnage, but only partly, and without any US enforcement, or even membership in the League of Nations, though Woodrow Wilson certainly wanted us in it.

    Before that the rules were very different, though they varied somewhat in different times and places.

    Territory “stealing” war has been a central part of human history from not long after the rise of the first agricultural civilizations, if not before, until after WWII.

    You must know that, right?

    AmerIndians living amongst themselves weren’t considered American citizens until sometime in the 1920’s, 1924 iirc.

    Like


  485. on Sat 11 Feb 2012 at 19:51:05 Jack in the Box

    White-washed history in a nutshell….

    Pres Clinton: “I did not have sex with Monica Lewinsky.”

    Like


  486. DAYUM!!!

    You good Abagond.

    You my Hero mayne.

    Like


  487. @SomeGuy

    Exactly!

    Like


  488. @ Doug1

    “How hypocritical! You tell whites what to think about whites all the freakin time.

    I do not write this for white people. If I did I would go about it in a completely different way. For example, I would never EVER say anything bad about them, at least not directly – because most of them seem to suffer from Fragile White Ego Syndrome and I would lose half my readership right there! It would be “ineffective”.

    I made a decision a long time ago not to court white readers. In part because it would limit what I could say way too much and even how I could say it. It would also require a style of presentation that I am terrible at and which makes me feel physically ill, like I am going to throw up.

    Of course that does not stop white commenters from showing up and making it all about them – as if they think they are the Centre of the Universe or something. I guess their history books help to make them into That Special Kind of Asshole.

    Like


  489. darqbeauty–

    Shaka Zulu “stole” plenty of the land of other Africans through territory grabbing conquest in South Africa, where his and his tribe’s ancestors live today.

    Like


  490. It’s amusing to see Dave Lister, Doug1 and Mik work the room like a bunch of carnival barkers, all in the name of maintaining supposed white superiority.

    You don’t get quotas of the truth. Whites are the ones who built America (unskilled and low skilled labor is a dime a dozen all over the world), and invented almost everything of great significance that Americans have invented.

    A big lie, but one told so many times that it has morphed into gospel for some people. I suppose you’ve included those groups that were once considered “non-white”: Italians, Greeks, Irish, Central Europeans, etc.

    To say that only whites built America is to stand upon the pinnacle of your own ignorance and stupidity, confident in your own color-aroused delusions and propaganda.

    Like


  491. Of course that does not stop white commenters from showing up and making it all about them – as if they think they are the Centre of the Universe or something. I guess their history books help to make them into That Special Kind of Asshole.

    It’s called “being up your own ass” and it’s something that many whites are doing far too much of. Remember folks, it’s not all about you.

    Like


  492. @Mack Lyons

    Please do point out anywhere that I claim “white superiority”.

    I thought not. Simply more rubbish.

    Like


  493. @Mack Lyons

    Ah, yes, devoid of any reason, Lyons and Abagond simply devolve into ranting.

    Like


  494. http://academic.evergreen.edu/g/grossmaz/interventions.html

    Note that this list begins in 1890. The US penchant for military adventures for corporate/geopolitical interests began with the systematic theft of north American land and the formation of African slavery. It has not stopped since.

    ——————————————–

    BTW – I am not a female. I am a heterosexual black male.
    For those who don’t know, I abhor whiteness. It’s demonic. And those who subscribe knowingly, or otherwise to it, imo, are under that particular influence.
    In one form or another, that is most, if not all, of humanity.

    Unlike some on this site, I have no patience/tolerance for engaging in long or continual debates with ardent card carrying members of the whiteness club. There’s just too many of them that pop up – singing the same old tire b/s…
    So when or if I indulge – it’s strictly on my terms, and never at the demand or insistence of anyone, especially those here that I see as trolls.

    Like


  495. The troll is YOU, Matari, popping up and calling others evil, then running. YOU are no different than a white racist.

    Like


  496. Doug, you already copied and pasted that exact argument. Verbatim. Please cultivate a little intellectual dexterity. It didn’t work then and it’s not working now.

    ” Aggressive territory conquering and keeping war wasn’t considered necessarily wrong or immoral all around the world until after WWII and the founding of the UN and its charter,”

    This statement is so erroneous I don’t even know where to begin. You are a lost cause and I am tired of casting pearls to swine. You don’t even know why you are here. You come here and start spouting off bunk statistics and theory as to why we are, as a whole, intellectually inferior. What I don’t understand is that why, if we are so intellectually inferior with few exception, you are here? What you hope to gain from your interactions here. Besides telling us that we are stupid and need to kiss your collective pale ass. What are you hoping to get from this conversation? If we were to tell you what you wanted to hear, THEN what? And why do you critique and offer no solutions? What is the Final Solution to the Negroid Problem? Or are you just here to make yourself feel better? About what? And why?

    I see right through you. You can use statistics, out dated race theory, manipulated numbers, hell you could use phrenology, but I see through you. You are nothing but a bigot who despises Black people and all your fancy footwork can’t hide the inescapable truth. There is also another inescapable truth. Why do you insist on inserting yourself into the business of those you despise? Since we have nothing to gain from your dubious insights. You’re a pane of glass. I see you, my dear. Think Black people are so unintelligent…yet you spend two days here arguing with them. (In a Freud voice) Hmmmmmm….veddy intuhesting!

    *eating Fruit Loops in happiness*

    Nothing better than relaxing in bed on a Saturday afternoon. Ahhhhh so nice.

    Like


  497. Dave Lister—

    Nearly every culture has in the past has done it (slavery) and far worse. I’ve got no issue at all with knowing/teaching that America was awfully involved in events that were atrocious. The problem comes with making it into something it wasn’t – an aberration. As terrible as it was, it wasn’t an aberration, and trying to paint it so is not historical – it is merely political. Claiming there is something uniquely wrong with whites for that is merely ignoring/hiding the fact that there was something wrong with everyone that engaged in such atrocities – which included everyone except perhaps the Aboriginal Australians.

    Trying to paint it so is not only political, it’s political based on lies of omission, implication and deceit.

    As well judging the past by the standards of present day America is foolish and not very enlightening. Slavery was not thought to be a moral wrong by most Americans or certainly most southern American when it began here in the mid 1600’s. By the time of the Constitutional convention elite white leaders in the north were trying to abolish slavery, but they didn’t have the political power to do so and form a nation which included the South. The north was afraid that without the south they’d be too vulnerable to subsequent efforts of Britain to retake its former colony.

    Although the slaves themselves were certainly not better off for being slaves (some house slaves perhaps excepted), their free ancestors, such as all the long time American blacks on this board, are way better for their ancestors having been made slaves.

    The argument that their ancestors having been slaves has made it impossible for blacks to rise far in American society as a group is simply a bogus cover leaf.

    Like



  498. @ Dave Lister / J Michael Lodman

    You, Mr Lister – or is it Mr Lodman? – are the troll. You are banned for using a sock puppet, which shows that you have not been arguing in good faith.

    Like


  499. “The troll is YOU, Matari, popping up and calling others evil, then running. YOU are no different than a white racist”

    He is every bit different than a white racist. Blacks can’t be racist. They don’t work in coordination to economically deprive; physically lynch; socially ostracize; or psychologically break white dogs like you.

    You are every bit the animal; which means I am doing a disservice to all animals big and small, slithering or stomping.

    Or maybe i can restate Ms. Susan Sontag, who would say it much better to you and those akin to you.

    “Mozart, Pascal, Boolean algebra, Shakespeare, parliamentary government, baroque churches, Newton, the emancipation of women, Kant, Balanchine ballets, et al. don’t redeem what this particular civilization has wrought upon the world. The white race is the cancer of human history.”

    Your intellectual sociopathy is the cancer of human history, Dave Lister.

    Like


  500. I’m with you Matari. I don’t suffer fools lightly either. They come here from Trollsylvania with the soul purpose of putting us in our “places”. There is no benevolent reason for their presence. Just pure malevolence. That’s why I like to call out their presence repeatedly. What do they want from us? What do they hope to gain? They know we will NEVER agree with then therefore their presences here can only be construed as a destructive force.

    Damn these Fruit Loops are good with sliced strawberry! Damn!

    Like


  501. Hahahahah!!! Dave is BANNED because he tried to use HIMSELF to back up an argument!!! Smooth move, Dave. Now all you can do is read our comments and froth at the mouth in abject silence.😛 Sorry troll.

    Like


  502. What are you talking about? I suppose any excuse will do though when you hear what you don’t like.

    Like


  503. Goodbye Dave Lister/J Michael Lodman! LMAO! I will really miss you…NOT!😀

    Like


  504. Hit Dogz will HOLLAR!!!!

    The YT’s are howwwling in here?

    Why?

    It is the truth. Basically all the positive images in America is White. This is a social construction. White America is a VILE group by historical standards. Abagond points this out DAILY.

    I do not know why “the hollering dogz” REFUSE to see their reality?

    Then again, the TRUTH is too much for White folks. They cannot Take It. They are so used to THE WHITE MEDIA SOCIAL CONSTRUCTION of Black and Brown people being the corrupters of American society and the people to FEAR!

    This is hardly the case. For Example, If most black people were middle class which STOLE AND GRAFTED with unbridled avarice like the White people then We would be known for being “white collar” thieves. Which according to America, White collar theft is “not all bad” The very people that Bankrupted this country. America needed poor black, brown and white peoples tax dollars to help them continue PLUNDERING!

    LOL!!!! and this Whack economy is ONLY creating low wage jobs.

    However, because blacks are KEPT at the lower rung of the American Socio-economic ladder the Black thieves tend to get their money from petty thief’s, robberies, and burglaries. Where else would they get it?

    From defrauding from Wall Street and the WHITE MEGA THIEVES???

    But as we have seen, WHITE THIEVES do not even get prosecuted. Whereas, Black thieves get prosecuted/scandalized and a whole CULTURE OF FEAR is created around them.

    Which – again is A White Media Created Construction, propagated by the White Elites to keep DIVISION.

    Like


  505. @ Dave Lister

    Every single troll says that to me when they are banned.

    Like


  506. A farewell letter to Mr. J. Lotman (aka Dave Lister)

    ###############

    Matari is every bit different than a white racist. Blacks can’t be racist. They don’t work in coordination to economically deprive; physically lynch; socially ostracize; or psychologically break white dogs like you.

    You are every bit the animal; which means I am doing a disservice to all animals big and small, slithering or stomping.

    Or maybe i can restate Ms. Susan Sontag, who would say it much better to you and those akin to you.

    “Mozart, Pascal, Boolean algebra, Shakespeare, parliamentary government, baroque churches, Newton, the emancipation of women, Kant, Balanchine ballets, et al. don’t redeem what this particular civilization has wrought upon the world. The white race is the cancer of human history.”

    Your intellectual sociopathy is the cancer of human history, Dave Lister

    Like


  507. Damn, I think I got some arterial spray on me from that ban hammer coming down and crushing that interloper.

    Like


  508. ****Posted by Matari*****

    http://academic.evergreen.edu/g/grossmaz/interventions.html

    Note that this list begins in 1890. The US penchant for military adventures for corporate/geopolitical interests began with the systematic theft of north American land and the formation of African slavery. It has not stopped since.

    ——————————————–

    BTW – I am not a female. I am a heterosexual black male.
    For those who don’t know, I abhor whiteness. It’s demonic. And those who subscribe knowingly, or otherwise to it, imo, are under that particular influence.
    In one form or another, that is most, if not all, of humanity.

    Unlike some on this site, I have no patience/tolerance for engaging in long or continual debates with ardent card carrying members of the whiteness club. There’s just too many of them that pop up – singing the same old tire b/s…
    So when or if I indulge – it’s strictly on my terms, and never at the demand or insistence of anyone, especially those here that I see as trolls.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    +1

    I am BOOKMARKING this link

    Like


  509. “Damn these Fruit Loops are good with sliced strawberry! Damn!”

    @ Darqbeauty

    You’re giving me a taste for a banana, strawberry, peaches w/ some Jamaica flavored Kool-Aid — SMOOTHIE. LOL

    That, and the news of DL going bye-bye – permanently – has the makings of an excellent ending to this afternoon!!!

    Oh Happy Day! LMAO

    Bartender! A round of smoothies for everyone, ON ME!
    And give Abagond a double!!
    : )))

    Like


  510. Yup, Darqbeauty is right. And Abagond, I am glad you banned Dave Lister! After all, this blog is NOT for racist White supermacists like Dave Lister, Doug1 etc to ”put us in our places” like Darqbeauty said.
    And Doug, American History is very biased. Much if not most things written in the American History books aren’t facts but lies to cover up what really happened.It is biased to make it look like Whites accomplished more things in America than Blacks and other POC. It was Blacks who helped Whites build this country and Whites used and exploited Blacks. Whites got rich in the expense of Black slaves and still live off the money and benefits their ancestors like you do right now. Have you read the book, Lies My Teacher Told Me? I think you should read it!

    Like


  511. Hey Dave Lister, when are you going to debate Doug 1?

    From what I’ve seen of Mik’s comments, they are very typical and full of misspellings and grammatical errors. Here are a few pieces: </em.

    When you are on psychiatric medication or anibuse, those things tend to happen. I just skip his posts as I can't make hide nor hair of them.

    The dodges are all by people who don’t want to talk about it anymore or who simply don’t like the answers.

    I would love to see you debate Doug 1 or Mik!

    I’ve said it before – if a 360 degree onanism session

    Are you an onanist too, Dave Lister? My you’re versatile, a one handed typist!!

    If you think Scandinavian countries are socialist, then we all know that you do not have the intellect or knowledge nor the capacity to understand the most simple concepts.

    What’s wrong with socialism? How many 50 inch televisions, computers, gadgets, houses, cars etc, do you need? The litmus test being can you die and take it with you? You are right though, I wonder how much knowledge or capacity to understand simple or complex concepts, he reiterates a bunch of nonsense.

    The US has become that also to a lesser degree than Western Europe since the 1960s, mostly to help blacks. For this they have zero gratitude, as for everything else.

    Thanks David Lister! Thanks for all your help! Happy now? Why or why are you so disdainful and combative? Hemorrhoids flaring up again?

    Whites seem to want to conquer everything, have everything, own everything, be ahead of everyone. Still they complain.

    There was a group arbitration at my work for which the black and other racialized employees got a settlement. Guess what? They gave the white employees a settlement also, although it had for the most part nothing to do with them. This was on a micro-level, but it is illustrative of your comment pertaining to society at large.

    I’m not as knowledgeable as Abagond, Leigh, Darqbeauty, Nom De Plume, Truthbetold, or anyone else, but I’m willing to learn.

    Knowledge is a lifetime journey. Anyone professing to ‘know everything, is in reality an arrogant and ultimately ignorant twat. There are plenty of those around! In other words don’t sweat it.

    Like


  512. @ JT

    Thank you.

    Like


  513. Yeah I agree with Sportsbruh on that Whites can’t handle the truth. They really can’t. That is why they get uncomfortable when the topic of race comes up. They know that a lot of people in their race wronged POC. However not all Whites are racist supremacists like Dave Lister, Dogu1 and a few of the other Whites on this blog. Some of them are actually very decent people. And Abagond, keep on writing. You tell the truth everytime and they don’t like that.

    Like


  514. Darqbeauty—

    You are nothing but a bigot who despises Black people and all your fancy footwork can’t hide the inescapable truth. There is also another inescapable truth.

    I’m not a bigot, and I neither despise nor hate black people. I grew up fairly liberal as a matter of fact, with fairly liberal parents, in an exurb or NY. Nor am I a white supremacist nor white nationalist. I am however a race realist aka believer from the scientific evidence in what’s called HBD (human bio diversity, a term Steve Sailer coined a decade or more ago).

    I simply tell you and others here things you don’t want to hear or believe in.

    I’m not the one vilifying or spewing invectives against another race. Many of the black commenters and some apparently white lefties do do that against whites here and on this thread all the time.

    The general tenor here is to blame white “crimes” of slavery and discrimination for all black failures to be competitive in terms of group statistics and so on (which are used all the time by government and journalists and so on to shape public policy) with whites and Asians at endeavors that require more than small amounts of brain work, as far as group statistics that is. Certainly some blacks are very much competitive. IQ is distributed along bell curves of percentage of occurence for blacks as well as whites. They overlap, but the white IQ bell curve is to the right of the black one, 15 IQ points to the right.

    I don’t particularly like endless black and lefty whites for blacks excuse making about the primary reasons for black gaps. It’s not ongoing white oppression, efforts to hold blacks down, or insurmountable discrimination. Tons of steps have been taken against any remnants of such things, including quite a few excessive and unfair to whites steps. Yet the gaps remain.

    You come here and start spouting off bunk statistics and theory as to why we are, as a whole, intellectually inferior.

    I don’t use offensive phrases such as intellectually inferior, rather things like have lower IQ’s on average. There’s also absolutely nothing bunk about it, nor anything outdated about it. It’s fully and totally up to date. You just don’t want to hear or believe it. 100 years of IQ testing have consistently shown that when tested as young adults (which is when the gap is fully manifest, more so than among young kids), blacks score 15-17 IQ points lower than whites in America, or 1.1 standard deviation +/- .2. La Griffe du Lion, a non PC statistical wizard, calls that the fundamental constant of sociology. All psychometricians know this. It’s not remotely controversial within that scientific field, or the field of measuring mental differences between people. The PC and left do hate this but can only come back with stupid stuff like “IQ tests don’t measure intelligence” (which is utter bunk), “race is just a social construct and not a biological reality” (which is also total bunk, race is about ancestry and in some racial rules such as the one drop rule, partly also a social construct – I don’t believe in or follow the one drop rule myself.)

    Like


  515. It was a small part of the English economy.

    Bullshi+. Slavery wouldn’t have lasted so long if it wasn’t ‘profitable’. Abagond was right; whites couldn’t have been that smart!

    “Democratic Socialists”, etc. He was merely taking a cheap and rather childish shot.

    A strawman If I ever saw one? This from the king of cheap shots!

    on second thought some of us here are clearly bored with not much else better to do.

    There was a long period when they could have. Why didn’t they?</em.

    They needed gullible folk to purchase their crappy products!

    Lenin even encouraged artful lying to advance the greater class good.

    Now this is a comical statement! A politician whatever his ideology, who lies! Wow! The horror, the horror!

    This is purely emotional grievance writing.

    Nope, it is you who offers emotional grievances! It’s like you are in a game of oneupmanship or that of a bully. You are comically combative! Again, why are you here? Slow day at Stormfront?

    Dave Lister if you are still reading whilst downing an 40 ouncer, J Michael Lodman, is probably his real name!:

    The north was afraid that without the south they’d be too vulnerable to subsequent efforts of Britain to retake its former colony.

    Yes, had the British retaken their old colony, we would all be eating fish & chips preferably with gravy on the fries!

    Like


  516. Soul Sister—

    However not all Whites are racist supremacists like Dave Lister, Dogu1 and a few of the other Whites on this blog.

    I’m not a white supremacist, not a white nationalist. I am a race realist. I want the races to get along.

    But I’m tired of endless hearing that the reason for black white gaps are all the fault of whites. It’s simply not true. Differences in average intelligence is the real primary reason. It’s only PC lying which hides this from so many people. The PC media semi censor the true, with respect to wide mainstream audiences.

    The truth is readily findable though by looking at some of the science as reported on the web.

    Like


  517. Soul Sista—

    And Doug, American History is very biased. Much if not most things written in the American History books aren’t facts but lies to cover up what really happened. It is biased to make it look like Whites accomplished more things in America than Blacks and other POC.

    And you know this how? Because you want to believe it?

    You think whites haven’t accomplished far more important game changing things in America than blacks and other POC?? That’s ridiculous.

    Like


  518. I don’t believe in or follow the one drop rule myself.)

    Is that you Watson?:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/12/science/12watson.html

    Like


  519. Soul Sista–

    It’s also only since fairly recently that we’ve had any substantial number of other POC, namely Latinos. Most of them initially arrived illegally, or their ancestors did.

    Like


  520. Nerneith–

    It was subsequently discovered that that DNA test was either in error or the reporting on it was bogus. Watson has either none or only trace amounts of African DNA. Not that I’d care. He’s as smart and accomplished as he is regardless. This race and IQ stuff doesn’t really apply to individuals, it applies to group statistics and averages.

    Like


  521. Is that you Watson?

    Like


  522. Some Guy–

    You probably think those scientists that eschew the term are Marxists, don’t you?

    I think those that push others to avoid the perfectly harmless classification of Caucasian are leftists, yes, mostly cultural anthropologists, from what i can tell. They’re hardly scientists according to most of them themselves. I think those that go along with it (which is most scientists who now quite recently have started eschewing the term) are PC addled. I’m not at all sure that most people in genetics and physical anthropology do avoid the term Caucasian. Yes it was invented in the 19th century because of a belief that this racial group first differentiated itself in the region of the Caucasus mountains, but it’s been used and still is used long after that was no longer believed.

    Like


  523. Elementary, Dear Watson. Elementary.

    *side eyeing Herneith with laughter*

    Like


  524. Matari—

    The US penchant for military adventures for corporate/geopolitical interests began with the systematic theft of north American land and the formation of African slavery.

    African slavery had nothing to do with American military intervention until the Union Army and Navy freed the slaves in our Civil War.

    Yes whites conquered Amerindians, piecemeal. They sometimes bought their land and sometimes gained it through conquest. Amerindians living amongst themselves didn’t become American citizens until the 1920’s. They were often hostile nations in the same continent.

    Why should white Americans have conquered Amerindian tribes and their land? That was done all the time in those days by all races. Shaka Zulu conquered lots of other African tribes and took their land as well, including in South Africa, where his and his tribe’s descendants live today.

    Sure we were a growing military power during our whole history. We conquered the Southwest from the Mexicans as well in 1846-8. They started it, after the US annexed (at their request) the Free Republic of Texas in 1845, trying to get Texas or large parts of it back. Turned out we solidly wooped them, and were threatening to conquer Mexico City as well, when they caved in. Big wooop. Way to go guys!!!! (We paid them something for the territory but it was a relative pittance they’d never would have agreed too but for military necessity.)

    Like


  525. @ Matari

    It was the least i could do. Seriously. That guy epitomized intellectual sociopathy. Driven towards “facts” while blinding himself to social realities.

    He will be fine. Stormfront can have him.

    Like


  526. @doug:
    No wonder you get offended and start that childish “marxist-socialist-leftist-feminist-communist” doo doo when it is so obvious from your answers that you are a result of that whitewashed american history. You are so brainwashed that you do not understand that you are showing it right there in your responses.

    “The country was 90% white until 1970”.
    Eh… No it was not. It became that only after the whites almost killed off enough of the native americans trough warfare, biological and others. And mexicans have always been a huge minority (and majority in some areas) of Texas and California, both of which were stolen from Mexico by USA.

    “If anyone ever found the term offensive as it’s most definitely still commonly used, it’s people in the Caucasus mountain area or those that study them, which is a very small part of the world population set.”

    Well, I lived all my life in Europe and the only guys using that ridicilous racial term “caucasian” have always been americans and some britts, that is as long as I can remember. “Caucasian” as a ethnic or racial term is funny as hell since it has no bases what so ever in anything other than in a head of one man back in 1800’s. So, not only that term is scientifically none sense, it is just funny. It was considered a sign of ignorance at least back in the 80’s european academic circles.

    “I was simply explaining what I meant when I said Scandinavian countries were considerably more socialistic than the US. Which shouldn’t have been necessary. Actually I’m quite sure it wasn’t, it’s how the term socialistic is often used, including by political parties naming themselves that in part, such as “Democratic Socialists”, etc”

    Well, if you knew ANYTHING about the history you would know this: it is SOCIAL DEMOCRATS, not democratic socialists. And you would know that it was social democrats who were the arch enemies of the bolsheviks, so much so that Joe Stalin once said in a speech: “Social democrats must be beaten every day.”

    Also, during the war, it was the leader of the social democrats (who had been familiar with Lenin on personal bases) in Finland who fought most bitterly against the communists. He was jailed after the war for it by the winners, USA AND COMMUNIST RUSSIA with their allies. But after the war when communists were trying to take over Finland as they had done in eastern Europe, it was the social democrats who fought against them in labour unions, worksites and sometimes on the streets. And guess who was funding them? Yeap, CIA.

    What you see as socialism in Scandinavia is merely the idea that we as tax payers should receive something back from the state. And that something is free education (best of the world, way ahead USA according the PISA stats), universal healthcare for minimal fees and other such services. The basic idea has been that the state is there for us and for our needs, not like it is in the USA where nobody knows what the state is doing with your money, other than fighting endless wars abroad and handing hundreds of billions of tax dollars to private banks (and that government was republican, not socialist).

    I’ve read one high school history book which was used in american schools up to the 90’s at least some parts of the country. Boy, let me tell you: in those 400 plus pages there were perhaps 20 pages about natives and blacks all together. That was it. And that says it all.

    Your constant need to derail the topic, need to attack anyone disagreeing with you, come out of the knowledge that you do not know much. You do know the white history and thats about it. You wish that by sticking with it, it becomes the reality, but it does not. It is only a fraction, a slice. I recommend lots of reading and traveling. They might open your eyes and mind.

    Like


  527. @ doug

    The problem with the term “Caucasian” is that it is almost 100% based on skull shape. That’s it. It may involved other bone structures such as limbs, but basically it involves the skull. I think, and I am glad rational scientists also believe, that basing race almost entirely on the shape of someone’s head is ludicrous. Since this is off-topic, this is the last response I will give for this issue.

    Like


  528. SomeGuy–

    The problem with the term “Caucasian” is that it is almost 100% based on skull shape. That’s it.

    That hasn’t been true for the last 35 years at least, since Luigi Cavalli-Sforza published the first edition of his massive “The History and Geography of Human Genes”.

    But it’s true that physical anthropologists can distinguish between the major geographic races or populations using skull as well as other bone differences. Gene sequencing has enabled much more accurate distinctions between the races and in much finer detail, so that now sub sub sub races or ethnicities and so on can be distinuished.

    Like


  529. Doug1
    I never said Whites never accomplished anything. I don’t write the History books. Yes, Whites did accomplish a lot of things however POC don’t get enough credit in the History books is what was trying to say. Like Abagond said,White History Month lasts forever and ever.

    Like


  530. JT–

    Mozart, Pascal, Boolean algebra, Shakespeare, parliamentary government, baroque churches, Newton, the emancipation of women, Kant, Balanchine ballets, et al. don’t redeem what this particular civilization has wrought upon the world. The white race is the cancer of human history.

    What utter far leftist garbage.

    White men have created the modern world soup to nuts. Science, the industrial revolution which many non white nations have subsequently copied and adopted, the most important inventions of all modern technology, and on and on. The industrial revolution for the first time in history enabled the majority of people in countries that adopted it, and then essentially all people in countries that adopted social welfare states, to live well above the levels of Malthusian misery. (That last is well worth doing a web search on.)

    Like


  531. Soul Sista–

    Yes, Whites did accomplish a lot of things however POC don’t get enough credit in the History books is what was trying to say.

    I’m perfectly open to demonstrations of that. As well I’d say that did used to be true at one time. I think it was probably true in the 1950’s and before. I’m sure it was true in some places a good lot more recently as well. There’s all sorts of stuff about what blacks accomplished for quite a while now it seems to me. If you know or can find some really important stuff that’s been ignored, I’m open to hearing about it.

    I’m not open to inventing untrue or vastly exaggerated propaganda just to try to “even the score” though.

    Like


  532. @ doug

    The problem lies in the fact that they are using an antiquated word with an obsolete definition. If scientists are moving to change the term to “Western European” or something similar, they are justified in doing so.

    Like


  533. Above I said that the height of Amerindian civilization among the Maya, Aztecs and Inca was probably roughly comparable to that of the ancient Mesopotamians in the old world.

    Noted genetic anthropologist Henry Harpendig in the blog he shares with frequent journal co-author Greg Cochran, writing in an historical bent here, says much the same thing but in more detail here. I read this just now.

    http://westhunt.wordpress.com/2012/02/10/backwardness/

    Cochran and Harpendig are both genetic scientists and can be called HBD ones, though this post has little to do with that.

    Like


  534. SomeGuy–

    It’s Western Eurasian. Which is rather a mouth full.

    Some are, I don’t know what percentage. There’s nothing offensive about the term Caucasian to the vast majority of people. I don’t even know if it bothers anyone in the Caucasus. I doubt it bothers many.

    The push to change it is PC nonsense of a really extended sort.

    Like


  535. SomeGuy–

    The problem lies in the fact that they are using an antiquated word

    It wasn’t considered antiquated by much of anyone five years ago, and isn’t by most scientists now. It’s all PC nonsense. It’s even absurd that it’s thought necessary for PC.

    Like


  536. I only heard of anyone objecting to it about six months ago, when Razib said he thought it was a rather silly term, for the first time.

    Only heard a few real lefties object to it since then.

    Like


  537. @ JT

    “It was the least i could do. Seriously. That guy epitomized intellectual sociopathy. Driven towards “facts” while blinding himself to social realities.”

    **************************************
    You mean like this super-genius (high IQ specimen) who can’t seem to connect the dots enough to realize that slavery WAS the financial engine that catapulted/enabled/financed American Imperial-Militaristic adventures overseas?

    ” African slavery had nothing to do with American military intervention until the Union Army and Navy freed the slaves in our Civil War.”

    – and this blatant B/S:

    ” Nixon started it [Affirmative Action] as a government sponsored program in 1980, aimed at blacks. It was actually began before that voluntarily by liberal white elites at leading universities such as the University of California (see the 1978 Supreme Court Bakke decision which upheld it but only if it wasn’t done on a strict quota basis).”

    How is it that a guy that espouses that whites collectively are intellectually superior to most other people doesn’t realize that Nixon, who resigned from his office in 1974 – in disgrace, could NOT have implemented any programs — in 1980!

    SMH @ all the little Rush Limbaughs, Pat Buchanans, Steve Sailers wanna bees that can’t seem to stay away, or STHU.

    And yet, we’re supposed to take people like this seriously?
    Now, THAT’S, or rather, HE’S A JOKE.

    Like


  538. Yeah 1980 was a typo. I meant 1970.

    Like


  539. It was obviously a typo. You’re being petty and absurd.

    Like


  540. I think Matari’s been pretty brilliant and diplomatic. =D You on the other hand…..=$

    Like


  541. Plus I know that Blacks have lower IQs but it didn’t stop them from building civilizations in Africa such as Ghana, Mali, Songhai, etc.

    Like


  542. btw, the Bakke decision in 1978 doesn’t mean that’s when elites at private a public universities only began AA for blacks then. It took that case years to wind it’s way through the courts. As well it took a while for a white guy to bring suit against affirmative action. AA began in the later sixties in some places, iirc.

    Like


  543. I’m being petty and absurd???
    I’m not the one lying, claiming that AA began as ….

    “Nixon started it as a government sponsored program in 1980, aimed at blacks. It was actually began before that voluntarily by liberal white elites at leading universities such as the University of California (see the 1978 Supreme Court Bakke decision which upheld it but only if it wasn’t done on a strict quota basis).”

    “It was most definitely started first and primarily to help blacks. Then women of all races, lead it’s true by white feminists, glommed onto it and said us too!! It’s a black talking point that more white women than blacks have benefited from it, but that’s dubious.”

    You are wrong on so many levels it’s (and YOU are) ridiculous! What makes you think that you can come in here and pontificate your BS and no one’s going to call you on it?

    Nixon didn’t start AA – even in 1970!
    It wasn’t begun voluntarily by white elites at leading universities, either.
    White women (white people) ARE the PRIMARY BENEFICIARIES of AA.
    Nothing dubious about that. It’s a cold hard fact. You claiming that it’s dubious doesn’t make it so.

    But I guess those are typos as well – and I’m just being petty and absurd, right?

    Like


  544. This is Doug1’s purpose for being here:

    In his own words:

    “I simply tell you and others here things you don’t want to hear or believe in.”

    Now – who does this?

    TROLLS

    Like


  545. Doug1

    What utter far leftist garbage.

    White men have created the modern world soup to nuts. Science, the industrial revolution which many non white nations have subsequently copied and adopted, the most important inventions of all modern technology, and on and on. The industrial revolution for the first time in history enabled the majority of people in countries that adopted it, and then essentially all people in countries that adopted social welfare states, to live well above the levels of Malthusian misery. (That last is well worth doing a web search on.)

    Since our resident White supremacist likes to bask in the reflected glory of the inventions of others and the creation of modern civilisation by those who were the same “race” as him, will he also accept his race’s responsibility for climate change, deforestation, radiation poisoning, over fishing, sea water acidification, and chemical pollution, acid rain, habitat destruction, honeybee decimation, air pollution, melting arctic ice, extinction of animal and plant species and our planet the only home we’ve got being made uninhabitable, or is this all hmmm let me see if I can guess “lefty propaganda invented by Marxist scientists”.

    Like


  546. abagond whites are not always right but neither are blacks. There is racism on both sides and there is also places I wouldnt want to go if the crowds were more white or more black. For example my father didnt feel comfortable going into a place which had only white people and I agree some places are not safe for black or gay or white.

    Like


  547. thats not racist Abagond?

    Like


  548. I see a lot has happened since my last post. I have noticed that certain individuals have tried to derail the topic further and further. I also see Dave Lister finally ejected.

    My points were that in a white supremacist society, POC have very little to look up to or learn from the ideas of the white elite and mainstream. Thus, many of us expect very little as far as any sort of recognition for anything positive outside the pocketed images of sports and entertainment.

    Like I said, having a month dedicated to Black History is one of those things that honor blacks in other fields like medicine, science, and politics. They are testaments that black people don’t have a lower intelligence compared to whites. They are proof that we are more than just athletes, clowns, and criminals.

    But it seems like any movement to make black people feel proud to be black is directly or indirectly subverted. In the end one can only conclude that this nation doesn’t want blacks to feel truly proud to be black.

    And that same opposition is also against Latinos, Native Americans, and Asians. The message is clear that not only does America hate POC, but they want POC to hate themselves as well. What kind of “civilized” nation would do something so cruel?

    At the end of the day all we want is the same kind of fair treatment and pride that is mostly reserved for whites.

    Now, on to BHM.

    As great as the idea for having a month, the shortest month of the year, it’s cheapened by making it appear that all we deserve is one month out of a whole year to learn about brilliant black people in the past and present. Even while it goes on, white history is still being taught!

    From what I’ve seen in elementary, middle, and high schools, BHM is celebrated by hanging posters on hallway walls. Some are just pictures while others are pictures with short bios. And that’s it! I know almost all of the students don’t read it especially if they go from point A to point B.

    So, one way or another, white history well be the history you have to learn in order to pass.

    Like


  549. Abagond,

    I do believe in an unfiltered exchange of opinion so long as it remains civil enough to allow the discussion to progress. That set-up has taught me stuff about white racism that I could not have learned in any other way, or at least not so quickly. Offline discussions like this with white people last for about five minutes, if that. Their need to Control Reality takes over. Here they cannot do that, though they try.

    I see what you’re saying. It’s useful to try to learn how white people really think online especially when they are steadfast in their mindset. Such discussions in real life would last very short indeed, but then again you’ll learn how they react in person as well.

    Like


  550. BrothaWolf, you are right. White History will be the only history you would have to learn to pass History in America and elsewhere. Your post was accurate 100%.

    As for Mik, yes, there is racism in both the White and Black side of the circuit. I a sick of this! And Abagond, you have really attracted a lot of racist people to your post whether they are White or Black.

    Like


  551. @ Doug1

    I dropped out of the conversation long ago due to the fact that you are trying desperately to tell us what and how we should think.

    If we say “left”, you point out why “right” is the way to go.
    You are, for lack of a better term, a typical white person.
    Educated enough to speak on certain topics with a fair amount of certainty that SOUNDS real and well read enough to twist facts to your benefit.

    This is a forum in which you will NEVER be the victor.
    For every fact you claim is real, we can prove how you benefited from us.
    For every invention you claim you made, we can prove how you benefited from us.
    For every “scientific” research you bring up, we can prove why your theory is made of shite.

    You know something?
    You’re sad.

    This is a once in a lifetime opportunity for you to learn something that may change your views on life, this country, this world and, most importantly, YOURSELF!

    Most whites will never be brave enough, smart enough, open enough to ask people of colour what they think or feel or believe, on anything!
    You are so content to keep on believing that your world is so damn perfect because you are perfection personified!

    The fact that you are here, listening to facts, stories and raw emotions, I’d think you’d welcome the chance to grow as a person.
    But all you’ve done is shame us, exploit us, tell us that we are WRONG to feel what we do, on a site made for us no less!!!!

    DAMN!!!

    I’m about to lose my mind.

    Doug, please, leave us be.
    Go someplace else…
    We want to be left alone to share with those worth sharing.

    Like


  552. Lets all take a moment to say good bye to Whitney houston she just passed away

    Like


  553. Really? She’s dead! I can’t believe it! I just looked it up. Thanks for telling me, Mik. It is so sad she passed

    Like


  554. Bull abagond. your race is less when we are discussing this

    Like


  555. Brotha all races and religons are not always taught since people really dont know of China and Japan yet you dont fight for chinese history or Japanese history just black history

    Like


  556. Because Brotha you put us online so instead we have to tell the truth here not in college and such since saying blacks were bred to be sports thats wrong but I would drown my gay son is since its okay to be tracy morgan and say that

    Like


  557. Mik, does have a point and what about the Hispanics? We Blacks are NOTthe only ones who suffered. Hispanics Asians, Irish, Chinese, etc have suffered as well but not as badly as African Americans and Native Americans have in America.

    Like


  558. Then Soul Sista how do we understand one another without hurting one another?

    Like


  559. Yeah Sista its all over the net now

    Like


  560. abagond where is your evidence? Not oral factual.

    Like


  561. once blacks are in power who will there scape goat be then? Because generally speaking they fight with everyone

    Like


  562. You don’t make any sense, Mik. Quit drunk typing and get sober.

    Like


  563. what makes you thinks whites are in power now?

    Like


  564. yeah De Plume whites are becoming the minority not blacks. whites are you still going to blame in 2036? when it becomes more multicultural?

    Like


  565. the true leigh what is the truth? the truth that whites are now becoming more and more the minority?

    Like


  566. You don’t make any sense, Mik. Quit drunk typing and get sober.

    He’s probably smoking a spliff to!

    Like


  567. @ Mik

    I agree, blacks are racist too, but at worst it is strictly a personal, street-level racism. They are not the ones who write history books that children across the land are forced to learn from, books which glorify white people like they are the only ones who truly matter. You know, so that they grow up to be racist assholes like Doug1 or, far worse, like that white man who was president during Katrina. It was like the blacks of New Orleans lived in some faraway land, like they were not truly American. That does not come out of nowhere. The way history is taught is not wholly to blame, but it is a very visible part of what is wrong and one that is relatively easy to set right. Black History Month is a step in the right direction but it is not enough.

    Like


  568. Then tell me Abagond what is enough? The black community at large is still not sastified with OBAMA. There savior. Whites are becoming the minority not blacks.

    Like


  569. @Herneith:

    He’s probably smoking a spliff to!

    Girl, I wouldn’t be surprised judging by his posts.😉

    Like


  570. Dough who wants to hear about woman in history Mary Reed Anne Booney Gloria O’Malley?

    Like


  571. Matari cartels are owned by the south americans not WHITE people. No because OBama is in office They will give you more power and you now have it.

    Like


  572. and your ignorance just contniues Sista

    Like


  573. “Mozart, Pascal, Boolean algebra, Shakespeare, parliamentary government, baroque churches, Newton, the emancipation of women, Kant, Balanchine ballets, et al. don’t redeem what this particular civilization has wrought upon the world. The white race is the cancer of human history.”

    ————————

    According to journalist Christopher Hitchens, Sontag later recanted this statement….

    …saying that “it slandered cancer patients”

    **************************************************

    A belated Thank You, to Ms. Susan Sontag (January 16, 1933 – December 28, 2004) for being an activist, a race traitor and a fellow TRUTH-TELLER engaged in the STRUGGLE for justice!

    Hat-tip @JT

    Like


  574. “It was like the blacks of New Orleans lived in some faraway land, like they were not truly American.”

    Had they been white the situation would have handled a lot differently. I even remember hearing whites blame black people down there for not getting out in time. And thanks to the media’s distorted lens, you would think only black people committed all the crimes.

    Like


  575. Mik,

    Brotha all races and religons are not always taught since people really dont know of China and Japan yet you dont fight for chinese history or Japanese history just black history”

    Because Brotha you put us online so instead we have to tell the truth here not in college and such since saying blacks were bred to be sports thats wrong but I would drown my gay son is since its okay to be tracy morgan and say that

    once blacks are in power who will there scape goat be then? Because generally speaking they fight with everyone

    what makes you thinks whites are in power now?

    What the hell are you talking about?? I can’t even make heads or tails as to what you’re saying. The only thing I’m getting from your “responses” are this:

    1. White people should have a white history month.

    2. Black people as a whole are screwed up.

    3. I’m half-Asian and half-white, but I support the white mentality much more.

    4. Me being gay matters more than blacks being black in a bigoted nation.

    You have some serious issues, and you won’t get any solutions by derailing this blog.

    Like


  576. De Plume not all of them did. But I want the truth and why would the white establisment embellish the truth?

    Like


  577. Brothat how am I ever going to derail this discussion with my whiteness in your eyes? Well at least you got number four right

    Like


  578. De Plume not all of them did. But I want the truth and why would the white establisment embellish the truth?

    The question to ask is why wouldn’t they?

    Like


  579. doug not everything the chinese created the railways and were not given credit for it. the whites were the owners and therefore got credit but whats new? Did you know Leonardo Di Vinci workers never got credit for that they helped him with. chuck Jones never got credit for Bugs and company until years later when he was an old man. When artists create something and its popular you think they get credited for the designing it? HECK NO it goes to the person who bought the design from the artist

    Like


  580. Herneith oh because they can get sued. They can get Revered Sharpton on there ass!

    Like


  581. I give up! My head hurts.

    Like


  582. Tell me about it! and yet on the same token they scream and become angry when no one listens to them!

    Like


  583. Jack the same could be said of Obama Gunatimon bay will be closed to date its still very much active!

    Like


  584. 4. Me being gay matters more than blacks being black in a bigoted nation.

    Brothat how am I ever going to derail this discussion with my whiteness in your eyes? Well at least you got number four right

    In other words, “I’m more of a victim than you’ll ever be.”

    Fortunately, the commentators here are not suckers for such a blatant derail attempt.

    Like


  585. Abagond and the censoring begins!

    Like


  586. @doug:
    Since you are so adamant that whites saved the world and their history is the history of the world, here are just few points for you to chew on:

    1. Construction. Ancient civilizations were building huge buildings and monuments millenias ago with a skill and craftmanship which even today is, we are told, impossible by some white researchers. Instead of admitting that egyptians, mayans etc. were way ahead of us in this field, they more willingly talk about little gray men from mars and beyond doing those things.

    The mayan matemathics were way ahead of the one spaniards were using. Their calendars were way ahead any of the white mens at that time.

    2. Medicine. Yes, antibiotics etc. have been huge steps forward but consider this: indians of India, whom I do not include as “whites”, invented vaccines plus 2000 years ago (they are discussed in Veda texts and some other old litterature) and they also practised plastic surgery about the same time.

    There was a hospital in Bagdad back in 900’s in which there was some 1000 doctors and the care was for free. Perhaps those arabs were communist-leftist-socialists too?

    Oh, they also had banks with branches in China, sewer system covering the city, fully functionin city wide water supply, post service covering much of Asia and a paper mill. When those were operating in USA?

    During the Crusades the “whites” learned some tricks from arabs such as how to pull an arrow from head, how to mend and treat wounds which had penetrated intestines (they discovered a book describing these techniques in Britain back in 1990’s written by a former crusader, the book even described how the use alchohol as a desinfect agent).

    Japanese and chinese doctors were at horror when they saw the hygiene level of the “white man” and could not understand why “white doctors” did not understand the simple meaning of hygiene in medicine.

    Some amazonian tribes used herbal medicine to prevent unwanted pregnancies, a practise which is still in use among some tribes but not given to the “white man” even though, according one “medicine man” interviewed by swedish reporters in 1990’s “all women know those plants and how to use them”.

    And finally, the egyptians. Yes, they did skull drillings successfully some 3000 years ago as is seen in some skulls which have healed after such operations.

    And when was it again when the “whites” invented vaccines? Hygiene? Anesthetics? Radical surgery? Plastic surgery? Think about that.

    3. Metallurgy. According the “white history” white man discovered aluminium back in 1800’s but some how it has been found in chinese tombs dating from the third century BC where it was used as a decorative metal in belts and armour etc. Just a one example.

    4. Moschus the Phoenician knew the atom and its structure. That was well before greek Democritus talked about it. Greek Erathosthenes calculated the earths circumferece and missed the mark by some 500 miles. Not bad, considering he did not have satellites. Ok, you may call him “white” but still, did they tell you this in your history books?

    5. Bagdad batteries. 2000 year old batteries. Electricity. Can be used in galvanising metals etc. Can be used in series to produce electricity many times more. Now according to your white american history, who invented the electricity and harnessed it?

    6. Photography. Who invented it, the techniques and materials? Yeah, right. For some reason arabs knew it all back in the 900’s from A to Z. Funny, huh?

    7. Printing. All the respect to mr Guttenberg, but the koreans had been using similar techniques at least from 1200’s. Yes, they used metal letters in their prints, carved plates for pictures etc. Mr Guttenberg did invent how to do this faster and all the credit for him, but he did not invent the printing or those techniques. But again, what does the “white history” teach us about the history of the printing?

    Oh, and the paper? Yeah…

    Like


  587. on Sun 12 Feb 2012 at 08:34:16 sushiandperogies

    It’s so telling that Doug1 completely ignored Darqbeauty’s questions. Wow. Just wow. He’s so excited to “prove” that black people are “less intelligent” , yet he refuses to admit his true agenda.( Which was already blantantly obvious. )

    I’ve found myself just simply leaving the room now whenever I hear someone complain about the existance of Black History Month.I used to challenge people who asserted that Black History Month was “racist” or “not needed” but it’s caused me to be seen as a militant, angry, dangerous, POC and the ramifications of being seen as a dangerous POC are pretty icky.Soulcrushing really. One measly month and they throw a hissy fit! lol

    I’m boggled by Mik. I’m a Euro/Asian woman but my collective life experiences definitely told me I was not “white”. I may have a “white” father, and I do recognize this brings me some privelege (though I do not look white at all to most whites.) but I gladly reject whiteness.Unfortunately, I have seen that many Eurasians often embrace whiteness and speak ill of other POC and it makes my head spin.

    Like


  588. @ Sam

    How annoying to constantly have to play professor to people who are willfully ignorant. That knowledge can be easily retrieved and researched, but remains untouched by those who claim to know and seek the “truth”. Why are people of color always the ones who must lead these people by the hand. A hand they constantly snatch away from. A truly wise man knows that the only thing he really knows is nothing at all. Another poster was absolutely correct. This blog can be a wonderful teaching tool to those truly seeking. Those who come here talking AT us and DOWN to us don’t understand the complete and utter folly of their actions. If we are so intellectually inferior, why are you here? That is the million dollar question not one of these “enlightened” people can seem to answer.

    Like


  589. Sushi you make my head spin! you feel your the minority but blacks will bite you when you try to become one of them. Tell me if your kid looks more white what is he then? More priveleged?

    Like


  590. So, if I understand all of this correctly… What we really need is a fully researched and revised set of history books. Accuracy counts and being biased is a huge detriment to accuracy, that’s pretty much a given. The question is, How do we go about getting an unbiased version of history into our schools nationwide? Would the Federal Department of Education pay attention to a signed petition or something? I would be interested in seeing what would happen:)

    Like


  591. Nom de Plume–

    Had they been white [the blacks in New Orleans during Katrina] the situation would have handled a lot differently.

    Had they been white they would have helped themselves far more. The local government response and preparation would have been far better. In fact the whites of the even worse hit parish to the south of New Orleans DID help each other to vastly greater degrees. The actions of the black citizens of New Orleans during Katrina were pathetic and all the nation could watch a good bit of it on live or almost live tv. At first the media showed a lot of it, in stunned silences as to commentary, but then the message turned to visciouly attacking the Bush administration for not being their immediately, to take the focus off the pathetic local black performance.

    In natural disasters the Federal government is rarely able to be the first responders throughout our history, including recent history. The first responders are local, or there is no first response.

    Like


  592. Sam—

    The mayan matemathics were way ahead of the one spaniards were using. Their calendars were way ahead any of the white mens at that time.

    As to the first, horseshite.

    As to the second, also horseshite. Compared to Copernicus and Tycho Brahe? Hells no. As well what good did their super duper calendar, which predicts the end of the world this year, do the massively human sacrificing Mayans?

    As for your rest, sure, a few other civilizations have made important contributions in the deep past, but as to creating the modern world, not so much. It’s been white men, soup to nuts for the last 550 years.

    Like


  593. Sam—

    6. Photography. Who invented it, the techniques and materials? Yeah, right. For some reason arabs knew it all back in the 900′s from A to Z. Funny, huh?

    Horseshiite again. Funny how it never spread, never became popular then. I mean it’s not like photography has any practical uses, or popular appeal, right? Just utter nonsense invented by those desperate to counterweight the enormity of white contributions over the last five centuries.

    Links?

    Like


  594. Sam–

    7. Printing. All the respect to mr Guttenberg, but the koreans had been using similar techniques at least from 1200′s. Yes, they used metal letters in their prints, carved plates for pictures etc. Mr Guttenberg did invent how to do this faster and all the credit for him, but he did not invent the printing or those techniques

    I didn’t say Gutenberg invented printing. The Chinese did. But the Chinese hardly used it worth squat because it didn’t really speed up the process all that much. Gutenberg invented the first mass production printing press, which is what mattered. It mattered huge because it absolutely revolutionized the spreading of knowledge around central and western Europe, in the form of relatively cheap books, pamphlets and journals. Those journals and books directly contributed to the worlds first ever systemic science, and truly advanced mathematics heavily used in many branches of that science.

    Like


  595. Sam—

    4. Moschus the Phoenician knew the atom and its structure. That was well before greek Democritus talked about it. Greek Erathosthenes calculated the earths circumferece and missed the mark by some 500 miles. Not bad, considering he did not have satellites. Ok, you may call him “white” but still, did they tell you this in your history books?

    Yes I knew the Greeks had estimated the earth’s circumference quite accurately. The ancient Greeks were most definitely Euros and whites. The first great ones.

    I looked it up and see that:

    Isaac Newton preferred to credit the obscure Moschus the Phoenician (whom he believed to be the biblical Moses) as the inventor of the idea on the authority of Posidonius and Strabo.[26] The Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy notes, “This theologically motivated view [of Newton’s] does not seem to claim much historical evidence, however.”[27]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democritus

    Even the Greek speculations about the atom, though historically well documented, were just that, philosophical speculations. They had no electron microscopes or other experimental methods to verify their theories, and further those theories were more or less pulled out of thin air. The Greeks created plenty of impressive mathematics especially geometrical math, science and philosophy, but Democritus’ speculations about matter being fundamentally composed of tiny atoms wasn’t really one of them. It does however bespeak a scientific, rather than a religion and mythology addled, frame of mind, which the classical Greek thinkers definitely did first bestow upon the world.

    Like


  596. 3. Metallurgy. According the “white history” white man discovered aluminium back in 1800′s but some how it has been found in chinese tombs dating from the third century BC where it was used as a decorative metal in belts and armour etc. Just a one example.

    Link please.

    Even if true, and lefties tell plenty of lies along these lines, the Chinese did squat with it, as was a general pattern with them in many areas. They certainly didn’t produced any substantial amount of the stuff or use it for its signal light weight for it’s strength qualities. Nor did they discover efficient methods of mass producing it. Europeans certainly didn’t discover aluminum through the Chinese.

    Similarly they invented gunpowder, it’s true, but did squat all with it. Frightened some enemies for a little while with some little no account erratic rockets until they got used to their general harmlessness. White men invented cannons, firearms, blasting charges for moving earth and mining, and so on, which fundamentally changed the nature of war.

    Like


  597. If the Chinese used aluminum for armor they were idiots. It’s a piss poor material, at least in any basic not sophisticated alloyed state, for that purpose. Iron not to mention steel is much better.

    Like


  598. @ Doug1:

    “You don’t get quotas of the truth. Whites are the ones who built America “

    They had help. Here is SOME of it:

    Land: Native American

    Labour: hundreds of millions of man-years of slave labour by blacks and Native Americans, the profits from which got the industrial revolution off the ground. Afterwards: cheap black, Asian and Latino labour.

    Religion: Middle Eastern

    Civilization: Egyptian with Jewish, Greek, Roman and British additions

    Technology: Native American (ask the Pilgrims), Chinese, Arab, Roman, Greek, Middle Eastern, Egyptian.

    Laws and political philosophy: English

    Other inputs:
    – Fossil fuels (a one-off windfall from trees that died millions of years ago),

    – A huge transfer of wealth from the British Empire to America in the 1940s

    White Americans like to believe it was all done through hard work and clean living and not also through, say, genocide, slavery, military power and plain luck.

    Without the contributions made by blacks and natives – at gunpoint – most White Americans would be living in the slums of Europe.

    Like


  599. 1. Construction. Ancient civilizations were building huge buildings and monuments millenias ago with a skill and craftmanship which even today is, we are told, impossible by some white researchers. Instead of admitting that egyptians, mayans etc. were way ahead of us in this field, they more willingly talk about little gray men from mars and beyond doing those things.

    There’s no doubt at all that several Middle Eastern civilizations in turn, and overlapping to a good degree, were ahead of any Europeans before about 500 BC, when classical Greek civilization really got going. Never said otherwise, and have alluded to that in fact.

    2. Medicine. Yes, antibiotics etc. have been huge steps forward but consider this: indians of India, whom I do not include as “whites”, invented vaccines plus 2000 years ago (they are discussed in Veda texts and some other old litterature) and they also practised plastic surgery about the same time.

    There was a hospital in Bagdad back in 900′s in which there was some 1000 doctors and the care was for free. Perhaps those arabs were communist-leftist-socialists too?

    As to the later, yes. Arabs were relatively advanced in medicine as well as some other areas compared to Europeans in the middle ages. I’ve alluded to that up thread. The fall of Rome and it’s civilization in all of Europe other than Greece and some nearby areas was devastating culturally and economically in Europe. Took a long time to recover. But recover Europe did, to by far the greatest heights of culture, invention and conquest in history, by far.

    As to the former, strikes me as bullshite. Link please. Especially the plastic surgery bit does. They had no antibiotics. It’s probably a reference to stuff like rebreaking a crooked nose to set it straight with splints or some such.

    Like


  600. @ Doug1

    “Similarly they invented gunpowder, it’s true, but did squat all with it. “

    Right, the Chinese did not use it to enslave millions and wipe out a whole continent of people and take their land. That just goes to show how vastly inferior they are to white people!

    Like


  601. Several comments responding to Sam’s “history” “factoids” in moderation.

    Like


  602. Abagond—

    Right, the Chinese did not use it to enslave millions and wipe out a whole continent of people and take their land. That just goes to show how vastly inferior they are to white people!

    At various stages in their history the Han Chinese conquered plenty of others generally to their south who then became Chinese.

    The Chinese didn’t forebear in using it for that, they simply didn’t think to invent cannons. During most of their history since the first emperor around 200 bc at least, the Chinese have been and extremely top down culture. This stifled practical invention. There may be something along those lines (greater conformity etc.) in Chinese and indeed NE Asian genetic makeups as well, we shall see in the coming years, both as genetics advance and as events unfold.

    Like


  603. White History Month, unlike Black History Month, is the month that never ends.

    Is there some odd irony that I am not seeing here? From the content of this post, my understanding was not that the comments would circulate around a couple of individuals ‘asserting’ their knowledge and ‘flexing’ about the achievments of WP of a bygone era because they perceive that it gives them credibility in the here and now, merely due to the tenuous link of sharing the same skin tone!!!! Bizarre

    I have not read the majority of their posts – to do so would be to succumb to what their intention is which is to ensure that this post becomes effectively derailed. This is purely because when BP get together and discuss things related to their experiences it becomes an ‘uprising’ or a ‘movement’ and it puts the fear of god into them. By ‘participating’ on this thread they can ‘manage’ things to ensure that they come across as sane, rationale, the voice of reason, unbiased as opposed to BP. I have seen one or the other, say that they are open to looking at the achievments of POC whilst undermining and disregarding the assertions made by others. The fact that they refuse to listen to any other opinion other than what they themselves have read makes a mockery of their so called ‘balanced’ out look on life.

    Being on here is enabling these people to stroke their fragile egos under the misapprehension that ‘book’ knowledge/smarts is somehow intelligence.

    Keep reading chaps, cos quite clearly its all you’ve got!

    Like


  604. @ Doug1:

    “The ancient Greeks were most definitely Euros and whites. The first great ones.”

    If whites were the amazing people you think they are they would have INVENTED civilization and remained on top through most of history. Instead, by your own admission, the first great ones were Greek. And THEY were sending their best and brightest to Egypt to study at least up till Plato’s boyhood. That means it took whites OVER 2,500 YEARS JUST TO CATCH UP with Egypt, much less pass it. That does not make sense if whites are RACIALLY superior, if they are born with more intelligence than everyone else – even more than the NE Asians, who apparently were not bright enough to enslave and slaughter millions.

    Like


  605. They had help. Here is SOME of it:

    Land: Native American

    Yeah, we conquered them piecemeal, made easier by vast numbers of them dying off from Eurasians diseases which most whites had partial immunity to, whereas the Amerindians had zilch. All great civilizations involved lots of conquest. It’s human nature for the stronger.

    Labour: hundreds of millions of man-years of slave labour by blacks and Native Americans, the profits from which got the industrial revolution off the ground. Afterwards: cheap black, Asian and Latino labour.

    Unskilled and semi skilled not so smart labor is a dime a dozen all over the world. Most of the world remains third world poorly developed even today.

    The industrial revolution depended on invention. There was plenty of money in Britain ex the slave trade to finance it, and once it got going even a little bit first of all in any big way in textile manufacturing, then railroads and steam ships, it was massively profitable and self financing, as a whole. Sure individual industrialists borrowed money, but it was supplied by the capital of other industrialists and so on.

    Civilization: Egyptian with Jewish, Greek, Roman and British additions

    Sure Americans and Euros generally borrowed from great civilizations that preceded them. That’s the smart thing to do, isn’t it?

    Egypt was hardly the most important. Absurd. Sure the pyramids were impressive, but it was a pretty static civilization.

    Sumner and Ur in Mesopotamia were the world’s first civilization, and it was based on concentrated riverine agriculture (which was probably invented or rather stumbled upon in Anatolia/Turkey) and towns that became cities with extensive division of labor, priests with large flocks, a religion which influenced the Abrahamic ones, and the first writing, which was a good lot easier to learn and use than Egypt’s hieroglyphs. Our system of time based on a base 60 number system (minutes, seconds) dates back to them, as does the first sophisticated astronomy we know about.

    But the real foundation of Euro and American culture begins with classical age Greece. They did borrow heavily from the Middle East, sometimes by way of the Egyptians, other times through Persians. The early Mesopotamia was then long gone. Greeks, Romans and the British are all Euro whites of course.

    Like


  606. Sam said:
    “Metallurgy. According the “white history” white man discovered aluminium back in 1800′s but some how it has been found in chinese tombs dating from the third century BC where it was used as a decorative metal in belts and armour etc. Just a one example.”

    Speaking of metallurgy examples. It is said that earliest forms of high grade carbon steel was produced in Africa. Tanzania to be exact. About 2000 years ago.

    Here’s the link:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Age

    Like


  607. @ Doug1

    A huge mistake that you, Dave Lister and most White Americans seem to make when it comes to history is White American exceptionalism – the idea that White Americans have somehow risen above the dirty, ugly, violent business that most of history is. You can see that might makes right through most of history and yet this somehow does not apply to White Americans. If it did, if only for like the few minutes it takes for you to read one of my posts, you would see just where I am coming from and what I am saying would make utter sense, even if you did not necessarily agree with it.

    INSTEAD you twist facts and believe other white people to maintain this fiction – because that is all it is, a fiction – that White Americans are the good guys of history. THEY ARE NOT. They are among the sickest, most cold-hearted motherfuckers the world has ever seen. They are not necessarily the worst but they easily make the top ten.

    Like


  608. @ Doug1

    “All great civilizations involved lots of conquest. It’s human nature for the stronger.”

    Conquest is but genocide is not.

    Like


  609. @ Abagond

    I think his inexperience at suffering discrimination, physical attack, or extermination at the hands of others or being close to those that experience that type of suffering allows him to twist facts and argue with distance from his statements.

    This is a type of dissociation that is most resistant; they have to experience it themselves otherwise they resist assimilation of such knowledge.

    Like


  610. Abagond–

    Abagond—

    If whites were the amazing people you think they are they would have INVENTED civilization and remained on top through most of history. Instead, by your own admission, the first great ones were Greek. And THEY were sending their best and brightest to Egypt to study at least up till Plato’s boyhood. That means it took whites OVER 2,500 YEARS JUST TO CATCH UP with Egypt, much less pass it.

    Agriculture was the necessary precursor for early civilization. Agriculture was a lot easier to get going in warmer climates. Civilizations based upon agriculture with concentrated cities and great divisions of labor were easiest to develop along rich large river systems which flood adjacent lands leaving rich and highly fertile lands next to them. That’s part of why the first great civilizations were along the Tigress and Euphrates rivers in Mesopotamia, and somewhat later, the lower Nile in Egypt. It took quite a long time for agriculture to come to Europe, especially northern Europe, where grains had to be adapted to shorter growing seasons and a colder climate, etc.

    Most of Greece is actually pretty poor ground for agriculture. It is well situated for sea trading however. In many ways it’s amazing that thought took off in Greece the way that it did. Their openness to and hunger for foreign ideas had a lot to do with it no doubt.

    Greeks went to Egypt because they weren’t hostile to Greeks and had inherited/borrowed from Mesopotamian learning extensively, and yes had created a good lot of their own.

    The speed of development of new ideas in mathematics, especially geometry, scientific understanding of the natural world, philosophy freed from religious dogma, and invention once the Greeks got going beginning around 500 bc was like nothing the world had ever seen before, by an order of magnitude sort of thing.

    Like


  611. Abagond—

    Conquest is but genocide is not.

    Genocide is the intentional killing of an entire race or ethnicity of people, or a serious societal effort to do so.

    Neither majorities of white elites nor the majority of white Americans ever committed genocide against Amerindians. Sure there were a few massacres, greatly exaggerated in number generally through vague allusions by leftists, usually in retaliation for Indian massacres, which were many. The vast majority of Amerindians that died after the arrival of whites, died from Eurasian diseases that Amerindians had no immunity to whatsoever. They often died before themselves actually contacting whites, through contact with Indians who had, or a chain of such intermediaries. Much of the Cahokian civilization along the middle Mississippi river near St. Louis and Memphis was whipped out by small pox and other diseases carried by some of Se Soto’s men when he explored the gulf coast in the early 1500’s. The area appeared almost deserted when French and then English explorers came upon it more than a hundred years later.

    Like


  612. @ Doug1

    “Most of Greece is actually pretty poor ground for agriculture.”

    So it is all right to blame circumstances instead of lack of intelligence to account for white failure but when it comes to black failure it MUST be the lack of intelligence – any talk of circumstances, like dispossession, slavery, Jim Crow and racism, is so much leftist whining. Got it. Wait, isn’t that kind of racist?

    Like


  613. Abagond—

    INSTEAD you twist facts and believe other white people to maintain this fiction – because that is all it is, a fiction – that White Americans are the good guys of history. THEY ARE NOT. They are among the sickest, most cold-hearted motherfuckers the world has ever seen. They are not necessarily the worst but they easily make the top ten.

    Utter bullshiite, and entirely counter historical.

    Like


  614. @ Doug1

    You do know you are a brainwashed, right?

    Like


  615. Abagond–

    but when it comes to black failure it MUST be the lack of intelligence

    We know as a scientific FACT that blacks are notably less smart that Euros/whites and NE Asians. There is a debate as to how much of that is due to genetics, but the evidence is huge that at least a good bit is due to that, but not all. However most of the rest may be due to feedback effects from genetic differences. People tend to want to exercise, work on and improve what they’re naturally best at. If its sports, then that, music, then that, studying and using their brain to solve puzzles and problems, then that, and so on.

    Like


  616. Abagond–

    You do know you are a brainwashed, right?

    If so I’m self brainwashed. No one taught me the vast majority of what I’ve been saying here, whether about history, IQ and it’s distribution, genetics, and so on. I went out and learned it for myself. And certainly not by reading white nationalist or supremacist sites, which I don’t read at all. Places like GNXP, all sorts of places for historical knowledge, and so on.

    Good grounding in history in high school and at Stanford, but it’s all been much supplemented and updated and expanded and revised.

    Like


  617. “@ Doug1

    So it is all right to blame circumstances instead of lack of intelligence to account for white failure but when it comes to black failure it MUST be the lack of intelligence – any talk of circumstances, like dispossession, slavery, Jim Crow and racism, is so much leftist whining. Got it. Wait, isn’t that kind of racist?”

    Nope. It’s just called hypocracy!:)
    Then again. White supremacy, seperatism, etc and hypocracy go hand in hand!

    Like


  618. Doug1 is constantly referring to white people’s “achievements” in their glory days. Just like old people who talk about the past.

    Like


  619. @ Doug1

    Who knows that Doug1? Last time I checked Scientific Racism had been expelled from the analogues of rational thought.

    Please elaborate with references.

    Also, make sure you don’t miss my previous post addressed to Abagond but directed ENTIRELY to you.

    Like


  620. @ Doug1

    “Good grounding in history in high school and at Stanford, but it’s all been much supplemented and updated and expanded and revised.”

    And how much of what you read or were taught about history was from whites? And given their violent, racist past, what reason would you have to trust their account of history?

    Like


  621. Abagond–

    INSTEAD you twist facts and believe other white people to maintain this fiction – because that is all it is, a fiction – that White Americans are the good guys of history. THEY ARE NOT. They are among the sickest, most cold-hearted motherfuckers the world has ever seen. They are not necessarily the worst but they easily make the top ten.

    Your irrational racist white hot utter hatred for white Americans sputters out of your every pore.

    Like


  622. @ Demerera, robwarner3, brothawolf, etc

    Please indulge me. I woke up this morning and just wanted to nail it to this guy. I kind of already know that no matter what I say nothing will get through to his Silly Putty white-is-right mind, but I just need to let it out.

    Like


  623. leigh204

    Doug1 is constantly referring to white people’s “achievements” in their glory days. Just like old people who talk about the past.

    Whites are still inventing almost everything of great significance in the world. NE Asians do invent some tweaks and improvements.

    Like


  624. @Doug1;

    Re: Katrina

    “Had they been white they would have helped themselves far more.”

    Of course they would have! What was I thinking? Whites excel at everything, and can do no wrong.

    Like


  625. Abagond,

    Isn’t it comedic that if you tire of responding to his insanity, Doug1 takes that as #winning.

    He’s a WINNER alright!! [/sarcasm]

    LOL.

    Like


  626. Abagond–

    – A huge transfer of wealth from the British Empire to America in the 1940s

    You mean repaying the loans that American banks lent to Britain to help it fight WWII? Yeah some Brits, especially lefty ones, have the temerity to think we should have forgiven them all that, I suppose by the American government repaying it’s own banks. Well the US gov’t undertook tremendous debt in fighting WWII as well.

    The US also just outright gave Britain (and the Soviet Union) tons of war materiel though our lend lease program.

    Like


  627. @Abagond

    I kind of already know that no matter what I say nothing will get through to his Silly Putty white-is-right mind..

    I know. Perhaps there hasnt been a book written on this yet. What would it be entilted I wonder?… maybe ‘How to take credit for the achievments of people of a bygone era whilst undermining and discrediting the advancments of people from other races to improve ones own fragile self esteem’….

    Like


  628. @Doug1:

    Whites are still inventing almost everything of great significance in the world. NE Asians do invent some tweaks and improvements.

    Invent what as of now? Speaking of NE Asians, recently, there’s this Chinese girl who won a prize for creating a nanoparticle which targets cancer cells. It’s still in the early stages and looks promising. Let’s see how long before whites “steal”, ahem, I mean, invent something similar.😉

    Like


  629. Abagond said:

    They are among the sickest, most cold-hearted motherfuckers the world has ever seen. They are not necessarily the worst but they easily make the top ten.

    A problem with this argument is that it’s often paired with a contradictory claim that all people have equivalent intellectual capacity. In other words, a particular group of people can be claimed to be morally inferior but not possibly intellectually superior.

    Such a statement appears logically incongruent.

    As far as the suggestion that white people have special claim to moral depravity, one need not look far to find counterexamples suggesting that such actions are universal to all groups.

    In just the past decades we’ve seen:

    – Hand-to-hand butchery of nearly a million civilians in Rwanda

    – Unspeakable brutality in Liberia:

    “Any time we captured a town, I had to make a human sacrifice. They bring to me a living child that I slaughter and take the heart off to eat it,” Butt Naked lamented. And he was hungry: “But for what I did, it is not less than twenty thousands,” he tearfully confessed.

    – War rapes in the Congo and Darfur on an industrial scale

    Like


  630. @ Leigh

    A cure for cancer that could save millions of lives? Ah, a mere tweak. Unless of course a white person beats her to it – or steals the credit. Then it will be UTTERLY AMAZING.

    Like


  631. This whole thread has become way too tense and I see anger from both sides. I can understand the emotion, but how does this help matters? I have seen some of the exact same arguments from Doug1 as I have seen on the Stormfront site, the intelligence angle for example. I also don’t remember Abagond ever sounding so hateful towards whites in general as I have in these more recent comments, it’s unnerving how closely it is sounding like some of the things black nationalist’s say.

    I don’t know of any one race or group that has a spotless past and I can’t see how anyone can look at history and feel totally o.k. with some of the shameful things their ancestors have done. I also think what we are seeing in this thread is a tendency to pick certain points of fact in history and blow them entirely out of proportion just to support that persons own ways of thinking.

    History is a fluid thing, and we don’t understand most of it because of our built in prejudices. Ideas from other cultures have made their ways into others primarily through trade and language. A large portion of trade was nothing more than economics and a way of obtaining luxuries from distant places.

    Which brings me back to my previous comment… Why are we not trying to get a fully researched and revised history accepted nationwide? Would it really take that much to try and be sure what we write is as historically accurate and unbiased as possible? If not, then we are in one helluva lot more of a mess than we think!

    Like


  632. Wups… in that case Abagond… I understand that it is directed at just him.

    Like


  633. Leigh–

    Speaking of NE Asians, recently, there’s this Chinese girl who won a prize for creating a nanoparticle which targets cancer cells. It’s still in the early stages and looks promising. Let’s see how long before whites “steal”, ahem, I mean, invent something similar.

    They invented something similar a couple of years ago. She probably got it from them.

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/04/100420132846.htm

    Like


  634. Leigh–

    However I have no doubt the Chinese are gonna start inventing things of importance. They have in the past.

    The question will be how will it compare with leading white inventions.

    Like


  635. @ Leigh
    Not this white guy. If anything I wish she had figured it out completely 10 years ago. Sounds to me as if my Dad may have had a better chance of surviving his cancer.

    Also, do you have a link for that? I am pretty interested as you can imagine.

    Like


  636. @Doug1;

    I’m still wondering why you’re visiting. If you truly believe many here are genetically inferior and lack your intelligence, wouldn’t your presence on this blog and endless debating with said people refute your assertions?

    When I was a kid my parents used to say that people who constantly point out how great they are usually don’t feel that way inside. They are only trying to convince others (and themselves) of their greatness because deep down, they really don’t believe it.

    Like


  637. @robwarner3:

    “Why are we not trying to get a fully researched and revised history accepted nationwide? Would it really take that much to try and be sure what we write is as historically accurate and unbiased as possible?”

    Not realistic with Arizona House Bill 2281 being signed into law and this kind of mindset:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/23/tea-party-tennessee-textbooks-slavery_n_1224157.html

    Like


  638. @Doug1:

    Leigh–

    Speaking of NE Asians, recently, there’s this Chinese girl who won a prize for creating a nanoparticle which targets cancer cells. It’s still in the early stages and looks promising. Let’s see how long before whites “steal”, ahem, I mean, invent something similar.

    They invented something similar a couple of years ago. She probably got it from them.

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/04/100420132846.htm

    It’s mere conjecture on your part. She’s a 17 year old HIGH SCHOOL girl. She’s been developing this nanoparticle since she was 15. The other people you are referring are university engineers.

    @robwarner3:

    @ Leigh
    Not this white guy. If anything I wish she had figured it out completely 10 years ago. Sounds to me as if my Dad may have had a better chance of surviving his cancer.

    Also, do you have a link for that? I am pretty interested as you can imagine.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2086763/Cancer-cure-High-school-student-Angela-Zhang-devised-cure-cancer.html

    Like


  639. If Doug is an attention whore who thrives on being in the spot-light at center stage (he is!), he’s certainly chose the right blog to to spew his racist BS.

    He couldn’t command this type of attention at StormFront, GL Piggys or any other site of that type – because he’d simply be just another regular white person like Lara, Dave Lister & Thordaddy. Nothing special, and certainly nothing out of the ordinary.

    Here, his oversize ego has reached super-stardom status in accordance to how this site permits his troubled psyche to feel. He truly feeds off of our direct responses to him. Same thing with Mik, or any other troll.

    THAT’S WHY HE IS HERE!

    And, here he’ll remain until:

    1. He’s eventually banned for a site infraction
    2. He leaves because his egotistical needs aren’t being met.
    3. He leaves because he’s had his fill.

    Words/Time are a terrible thing to waste (on the wasted).
    Don’t feed the trolls.
    Don’t waste your time reading their never-ending BS spew.

    Like


  640. @Randy

    “A problem with this argument is that it’s often paired with a contradictory claim that all people have equivalent intellectual capacity. In other words, a particular group of people can be claimed to be morally inferior but not possibly intellectually superior.
    Such a statement appears logically incongruent.”

    this!

    Like


  641. @Matari:

    You’re absolutely correct. I do get sucked in sometimes, but no longer. Thanks for reminding me.

    Like


  642. @ Matari

    Fair enough. I am done talking to Doug1 except as site moderator.

    Like


  643. @ Nom De Plume…. Ouch, and there goes my hope that intelligence can win, thanks for that eye opener though.

    @ Leigh…. I guess that explains why she didn’t have it figured out sooner, lol. She would have been 7, oh well. Thanks so much for that link.

    @ Matari…. Very good points 1, 2 and 3, I forgot the attention angle myself.

    Have a test tomorrow so, this is last comment for some time. Thanks for the convo though and for the topic, Abagond.

    Like


  644. Leigh–

    Read the Daily Mail story on her. She does sound amazing and promising. Good for her.

    I will note that she was a Chinese American in California, who was suffused with American scientific culture. She talked her way into doing her research at a lab at Stanford.

    Like


  645. @ Matari,

    Thank you for that. Sort of had to shake myself out with that sober thought.

    Like


  646. @JT:

    Matari is spot on. When people such as (the ones who shall not be named) show up on this blog ready to instigate, the sensible step is to completely disregard them.

    Like


  647. Abagond wrote:

    “History as taught at school (as opposed to university) is such an utterly self-serving whitewash that it should, at best, be called White American Studies. Add English literature to that.”

    ******************************************
    Absolutely!

    “Sociologist Joe Feagin[1] coined the concept of the white racial frame after conducting extensive sociological research and writings on racial and ethnic oppression, exploitation, and inequality over the past several decades. A critical aspect of the societal reality of “systemic racism”[1], the white racial frame is a generic meaning system that has long been propagated and held by most white Americans—and even, at least in part, accepted by many people of color. Among whites in particular, this framing is deeply held, broad, and encompasses many pieces of racialized knowledge and understandings that in concert shape human action and behavior in a myriad of ways that are often automatic or unconscious. The white racial frame is more than cognitive; it is a deep racial framing that has racial images, interpretations, emotions, and action inclinations that are closely tied to racial cognitions and understandings therein[2].

    The dominant white racial frame generally has several levels of abstraction. At the most general level, the racial frame views whites as mostly superior in culture and achievement and views people of color as generally of less social, economic, and political consequence than whites—as inferior to whites in the making and keeping of the nation. At the next level of framing, whites view an array of social institutions as normally white-controlled and as unremarkable in the fact that whites therein are unjustly enriched and disproportionately privileged. At the lowest level of abstraction, negative stereotypes and images of the “inferior racial others” are constructed and accepted. This framing is so taken for granted that at no level is this white racial frame questioned or challenged by most whites. Relatively few whites ever think critically about its major contours and deep significance. Most whites collude tacitly in an agreement not to question it. The frame includes not only negative understandings of Americans of color, but also assertively positive understandings of whites and white institutions. White superiority is regularly coupled with ideas of inferiority of people of color[3].

    For most white Americans, the white racial frame is deeply held and extensive, with many stored aspects or “bits,” including stereotyped knowledge, racial understandings, and racial interpretations. In this sense, “bits” are pieces of cultural information that is collectively derived and passed along from one person and group to the next, and from one generation to the next. Specific bits of the white racial frame began to develop as early as the 1607 with the introduction of north Europeans, by means of invasion of North America, to Native Americans and, soon, Africans. In everyday practices, there are multiple variations of the frame and it is not always used in the same way by whites. But, by constantly using selected bits of the dominant white racial frame to interpret society, by integrating new items into it, and by applying learned stereotypes, images, and interpretations in discriminatory actions, whites imbed their racialized frame deeply in their minds. Particularly important in the white racial frame are intimate friendship and kinship groups, for in such settings essential racial “bits” become a common cultural currency[2].

    Depending on the situation, whites typically combine racial stereotypes (the cognitive aspect), metaphors and concepts (the deeper cognitive aspect), images (the visual aspect), emotions (feelings like fear), or inclinations to take discriminatory action within a racist framing of society. This frame assists them in evaluating Americans of color in everyday situations, as well as in assessing white Americans and white institutions. While there are variations among white individuals and small groups in regard to the dominant racial framing across white America, and indeed other white areas of the globe, most such framing encompasses thousands of conventional racist bits webbed together. Some bits are subtly racist cognitions, images, emotions, and inclinations, while many others are more blatantly racist. Each person, and/or their immediate small group, draws from the larger frame.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_racial_frame

    Like


  648. Lies are told about Native Americans and Africans so that the crimes committed against them by whites seem to be “not so bad”.

    What lies are being told about them these days by white historians, other than by the far lefty variety, who tell plenty of them??

    Point of view: Most writers and teachers of the American history are white.

    Well of course. Most Americans are white, and especially most intelligent historians of American history are white. Many are nonetheless very critical of many aspects of American history.

    Money: Way more money has been poured into researching, writing and teaching white history than black history.

    Well of course. See the above for one thing. As well white history beginning with the Greeks has objectively been vastly more important for the development of the world, and of this country as well, than black history.

    Like


  649. @ Leigh

    Thanks! I am going to follow that advice because i think that the alternative is that i will become more and more destructive with my words. I noticed that that came out when i was responding to the recently banned troll. The more he denial he was in the more vile i would spew.

    Like


  650. Matari–

    Although I avoid using words as all encompassing and having a moral dimension such as “inferior” and “superior”, another phrase that would describe this “white racial frame” is “recognizing historical and current reality”, as opposed to seeing the world through the cultural Marxist originated PC lie that every group has achieved as much as every other (or would have but for unstoppable white oppression), and has just the same abilities on average in all respects.

    Like


  651. @JT:

    @ Leigh

    Thanks! I am going to follow that advice because i think that the alternative is that i will become more and more destructive with my words. I noticed that that came out when i was responding to the recently banned troll. The more he denial he was in the more vile i would spew.

    No worries. It happens to the best of us.😉 We just need a reminder from time to time. That’s all.:)

    Like


  652. Whining of racism as always, “Oh poor white people. We deserve a month, too.” Wah. Wah. Wah.😀

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/dumbest-reactions-to-black-history-month

    Like


  653. @doug: I feel your pain. To be so ignorant about the history of mankind is painful when exposed. Instead of links I recommend studies and libraries where there is a ton of veryfied information available at ease. That is, if you can read.

    Heres some more things your white american history did not teach to you perhaps for some reason:

    20-27. of september 1950, Sam Francisco Bay area and near by coast. US Navy made six biological attacks to the city and its evirons using Bacillus globigiita and Serratia marcescensia bacterias ad studied the effects. Of course, nobody was told about this in advance.

    Minneapolis 1953. US Air Force spread zinccadmiumsulfade over the city. Highly toxic. Revealed by ex military scientist in Atmosphere Enviroment 1972.

    Washington DC 1953. Military spread lycopodium and zinc cadmium sulfade over the city. Also Leesburg Virginia and Monocacy river valley in Maryland.

    New York City 11.-15- of february 1956. Biological/chemical agents spread in the city and Lincolcn tunnel and Holland tunnel. Raport released in 1966 revealed that the military and CIA had sprad trillion Bacillus subtilis variant niger bacteria into the city, including using the subway.

    I wonder why these biological and chemical attacs on civilians on US soil don’t get mentioned in the “white history”? After all, Saddam Hussein was doing the same (with much better results, granted) and he got pretty good coverage in the US media. So why the silence in the history books???

    Like


  654. James Baldwin said:

    ” it is probable that only a creature despised by history finds history a questionable matter. On the other hand, people who imagine history flatters them (as it does, indeed, since they wrote it) are impaled on their history like a butterfly on a pin and become incapable of seeing or changing themselves, or the world.”

    Like


  655. @doug:

    “No one taught me the vast majority of what I’ve been saying here, whether about history, IQ and it’s distribution, genetics, and so on. I went out and learned it for myself.”

    Sorry man, but that really shows. You do not have a basic idea about the history, do you? You talk about how white (americans) people have been the top dogs in the world for the last 550 years. Noup. It is a bit less actually, but lets just say that from 1700’s onwards. How many centuries is that??

    Do you have any idea how old egyptian civilization was? How long it existed? I’ll bet my place in heaven or hell, my immortal soul, that USA or so called american civlization or empire won’t last nothing near to that. And what do we say then about the success of that civilization?

    See, there is history and then there is “white history”. If you really want to know the differece I recommend some studies on political ideologies and their histories.

    Also what is this leftis/commie thing? Really? It is so funny.

    Like


  656. ^^^

    @Sam

    Not to slow you down sam but it might be wise to follow Abagond, Matari, Leigh etc. lead on this one. Let Doug impale himself on his own intransigence; feeding him attention just keeps him repeating the same insanities.

    Like


  657. Sam–

    Sorry man, but that really shows. You do not have a basic idea about the history, do you? You talk about how white (americans) people have been the top dogs in the world for the last 550 years. Noup. It is a bit less actually, but lets just say that from 1700′s onwards. How many centuries is that??

    What shows is obviously the opposite.

    No, what I’ve said is that whites began inventing the modern world, soup to nuts beginning with Gutenberg’s invention of the first mass production printing press, whose immediate widespread adoption lead through relatively cheap and widely circulated books, pamphlets and journals, lead before long to the scientific revolution.

    Europe may not have necessarily been more militarily powerful and advanced in all respects than China in 1450, but that’s when the modernizing ball in Europe really got going. Other aspects of the high renaissance were also important, with some of the world’s most beautiful art ever, the beginnings of classical European music, which cognitive elites of the world still appreciate and so on.

    Like


  658. Yes.

    Like


  659. Sam—

    Do you have any idea how old egyptian civilization was? How long it existed?

    Of course, I’ve known that since high school, and that the Mesopotamian civilization at Ur and Sumer may have somewhat preceded them, though archeologists go back and forth on that these days. Memphis in Egypt grew into what might be called a city in the 31’s century bc, or 5000-5100 years ago. The first dynasties of the Old Kingdom go back to about 2700bc iirc.

    Like


  660. *watching a certain person go tugging on the shirt sleeves of other posters begging for attention like a snot nosed child*

    So thirsty for attention….so parched…seeing oasis,camels, mirages….so very very thirsty…

    *wink*

    Like


  661. I dont think these guys are getting the credit they deserve😉, after all, their sisters husbands, brothers, wifes, dads, great great great great great grandfather (ummmmm, where was I)…. may have known someone who was responsible for all these major achievements. So of course they will take personal pride in this????

    Seriously though, no harm in being proud of the achievments of your forefathers but when you try to take credit for this, its downright plagarism!

    Like


  662. Hey Doug, if you wish to continue this virago of lies, contact blowitoutyourhole.com

    Like


  663. You guys spent two days on a
    ‘-my ancestors were cool!
    -no way! they sucked’
    discussion. You didn’t question the premises of the discussion – that the modern day idea of race can’t be applied to older civilizations, or that being best at something during some time period isn’t important, because the dominance will not last forever. Nah, that would have been too simple. Making extremely general and inaccurate statements about whole nations and thousands of years of history is so much more fun.
    You think this discussion made him look dumb? Only him?

    Like


  664. It makes you look just as dumb as it took you two days to figure that out apparently.

    Like


  665. Nah, it didn’t take me two days. I’ve waited because I wanted to know how long this extremely fruitful discussion will last.

    Like


  666. @ Eco

    Those points were made. It was pointed out that “Caucasian” is a bizarre anachronism and that it took whites 2500 years to catch up to Egypt, that if they were so vastly intelligent they would have invented civilization and remained on top through most of history.

    Like


  667. So does the Panthers Vindicator

    Like


  668. on Sun 12 Feb 2012 at 21:37:14 sanabituranima

    “the modern day idea of race can’t be applied to older civilizations, or that being best at something during some time period isn’t important, because the dominance will not last forever.”

    That would be a valid point if it wasn’t for the fact that the modern idea of race has been put backwards into history, making certain groups feel superior.

    Like


  669. Wow. Mik and Doug1 why are they exactly here? What is their agenda and why push it down the throats of people who do not agree? I just don’t understand. They don’t add anything to the discussion and by their post it seems that they have serious issues with all 40 million black Americans in the US. Well maybe even the millions more in the continent of Africa, the Caribbean, and ones living in Europe. Listen if you don’t care for blacks then stop coming to Abagond’s blog. Maybe they just like getting the rise off of people. They like pissing people off since they really don’t have much else to do with their time. How sad and pathetic. Really no one agrees with you and you add nothing at all. Oh and not all blacks hate white people. Where did you get that from? I guess if you discuss any type of injustice then you automatically hate whites. Oh and if you are concerned about black homophobia, maybe you should try to educate some blacks about gays. I am the first to admit that blacks are homophobic but being gay is not a white phenomena and there are black lgbt people out there. Or maybe gay blacks don’t count either.

    Like


  670. AC you will never get it will you! Where did you get america denies black history and yet accepts gay black man? Even when I show you link you disregard it! Of course.

    Like


  671. @Abagond
    “Those points were made. It was pointed out that “Caucasian” is a bizarre anachronism and that it took whites 2500 years to catch up to Egypt, that if they were so vastly intelligent they would have invented civilization and remained on top through most of history.”

    Not really. The “caucasian” point was used to prevent him from claiming Middle Easterners as white, not to show that using modern ideas about race doesn’t make sense in this context. Did anyone say he shouldn’t call ancient Europeans white? I didn’t notice that. Saying that getting to the top took a lot of time isn’t equal to pointing out that it doesn’t matter who was on top at a given moment.

    @sanabituranima

    “That would be a valid point if it wasn’t for the fact that the modern idea of race has been put backwards into history, making certain groups feel superior.”

    That doesn’t mean we should accept it.

    Like


  672. @ Eco

    The issue of the ancient Greeks and Romans being “white” was also covered:

    sanabituranima
    Haven’t commented on here in a while, but this is all very true.

    Doug1 – the truth isn’t racist, but what you’re saying is not the truth. Your version of “everything important is racistly skewed. Are you really saying that nothing in Africa, Asia or Latin America in the last 500 years has been important.

    “Egyptians, Middle Easterners and early man, meanwhile, become honorary whites for particular periods of history.”

    This is very, very true. And sad.

    I also think (as someone who’s in the final year of a Classics degree) that there’s a massive tendency to whiten ancient history. This is seen in the way Greeks and Romans are emphasised over Egypt and the Middle East and just generally in putting the idea of whiteness in a time when it didn’t exist. I mean, obviously white skin existed in those times, but the modern idea of whiteness didn’t. The Romans thought in terms of citizens and non-citizens. There were black, Romanised Africans (including one emperor, Septimus Severus.) But the history books have whitened Rome.

    abagond
    Sanabituranima! Wow, long time, no hear! I agree with you about the ancients:

    https://abagond.wordpress.com/2010/03/28/how-white-was-ancient-greece/

    Like


  673. Please answer the question and stop dodging. Why are you here Mik? Who are you trying to convert? What is your purpose? Clearly your reading comprehension is atrocious because you are not answering any of these questions.

    Like


  674. @ AC

    Mik and Doug1 have been asked that question over and over again. They have yet to answer it. It is fair to conclude it is because they are trolls.

    Like


  675. @Abagond

    I’m sorry. I was wrong. I didn’t notice that post.
    Still, it’s a shame the conversation didn’t focus on these valid points and didn’t end much sooner.

    Like


  676. @abagond:

    @ AC

    Mik and Doug1 have been asked that question over and over again. They have yet to answer it. It is fair to conclude it is because they are trolls.

    I was thinking along the lines of annoying boils on the butt of humanity, but hey, trolls work, too.😉

    Like


  677. Ac the same reason your here. Plus to keep your heads grounded instead of I am the victim. but obivously you dont want that.

    Like


  678. RIGHT why are you on this website Leigh?

    Like


  679. With annoying boils, I’ve heard it should be treated with warm compresses, antibiotics, and lanced/drained by a physician to relieve pressure.

    Like


  680. @ eco

    I believe I address your point in my second post on this thread:

    And who says any of the people whom you call “White” would give themselves that label and be sympathetic to you? Probably very few.

    Like


  681. So my hunch is right. You do secretly love black people. I mean you insert yourself in topics that have nothing to do with you. Then you love to point out that blacks have this victim mentality which to me, why would you care so much about that if you don’t care about blacks. Are you captain save a race whose whole mission is to bring blacks to the light and stop being mean to white people? I love how you said to keep us grounded. Maybe you are our savior!! Don’t you just love how black people can’t complain about one thing with out some outsider coming in telling us we are delusional and victims. Or how we own America now because of Obama. Now if you really believe that Obama really runs things in this country you have to be delusional. Oh well no need to get into your mind. No matter what you say no one is going to agree with you. Captain save a race to the rescue!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ha I am done with this topic it’s really not getting anywhere. These cheese heads don’t want to learn they want to start crap cause they get a rise out of pissing people off. What a waste of time.

    Like


  682. *Rubs temples*

    I don’t know where to start.

    you feel your the minority but blacks will bite you when you try to become one of them. Tell me if your kid looks more white what is he then? More priveleged?

    Mik, you certainly have some self-esteem issues from the looks of it. You seem to want everyone to feel sorry for you due to some bad experiences, but you do it at the expense of a blog topic that has nothing to do with your rantings.

    Had they been white they would have helped themselves far more. The local government response and preparation would have been far better. In fact the whites of the even worse hit parish to the south of New Orleans DID help each other to vastly greater degrees. The actions of the black citizens of New Orleans during Katrina were pathetic and all the nation could watch a good bit of it on live or almost live tv. At first the media showed a lot of it, in stunned silences as to commentary, but then the message turned to visciouly attacking the Bush administration for not being their immediately, to take the focus off the pathetic local black performance.

    Okay, Doug. The way this comment started off was ridiculous enough. You practically said that if blacks weren’t black they would be more self-reliant. So, in other words blacks are too stupid and pathetic to help themselves.

    You also seem to believe what the news presented about the riots, rapes, and lootings, which were proven to have been blown waaaaaaaay out of proportion. Yet, you conveniently leave out the shootings of blacks by whites out of shear fear. But hey, they were justified. After all, black people are crime prone. SMDH.

    And lastly, any attack against the Bush administration was uncalled for. Oh yeah. Bush handled the situation just nicely by appointing a man who was severely unqualified and ended up making a mess of the whole emergency response. But then again, it’s not their fault. It was the blacks. The black people who were screwed before the hurricane by state and local governments. Of course.

    Like


  683. abagond–

    I answered on this thread yesterday.

    Just because I don’t agree that all continuing black problems are due to evil white oppression and irrational discrimination doesn’t make me a troll by any stretch. But there’s a fuller answer up thread.

    You yourself said I wasn’t a troll on this thread. I do believe what I’ve been saying for very good factual reasons, and am not here just to bait or disrupt. In fact I’ve been doing zero baiting and very little personal insulting. I just offer opinions that most here don’t welcome, or the issues that are discussed here, and on this post. I’ve quoted number of parts from your post in chief and both given answers and asked questions as a matter of fact.

    Like


  684. brothawolf–

    Bush’s FEMA guy was inadequate and slow, I don’t disagree with that. But the NO major’s and his police chief and police force’s preparation and responses were terrible.

    Like


  685. Doug1,

    Why are you so obsessed with white – AND ONLY – white accomplishments so much? Any acknowledgement of any achievements by POC is dismissed by you. You can not sit here and say that POC, especially blacks, haven’t done a damn thing in history. If you were to go on an academic platform and presented this bullsh*t, you would be laughed right out of the building.

    Seriously son, your ego must be extremely fragile if you cannot stand to hear that your people weren’t the only movers and shakers. It must devastate you to know that when civilizations began in Africa, Europeans lived in caves. And it must kill you to know the horrible truth that wherever white people went where there were POC, YOU’VE DESTROYED! That’s right! I said DESTROYED!

    Like


  686. @ Abagond

    “Mik and Doug1 have been asked that question over and over again. They have yet to answer it. It is fair to conclude it is because they are trolls.”

    – These two yo-yos (TROLLS, beyond any doubt) stated, indirectly why they’re here.

    —————————————-
    on Thu 9 Feb 2012 at 04:27:26 Mik

    “My purpose is too tell you all everyone is racist and you DO have some good points but your wrong to say whites get there history 11 months while blacks get there one month and asians in your eyes get one month there is more then one in your eyes ASIAN race”

    _______________________
    on Sat 11 Feb 2012 at 21:18:56 Doug1

    “I simply tell you and others here things you don’t want to hear or believe in.”

    ********************************

    – But it goes much deeper than that. Like moths attracted to light, these two circus clowns love the Big Tent, the spotlights and being in the center ring, at all/any costs. Even if it causes them to behave as babbling, incoherent fools and idiots.

    – No offense to idiots.

    Like


  687. on Mon 13 Feb 2012 at 00:07:59 sanabituranima

    “but blacks will bite you when you try to become one of them.”

    You’ve somehow managed to confuse black people and vampires. Clearly there is no point in arguing with someone who could get confused like that.

    Like