On Sunday Cornel West wrote an opinion piece about Ta-Nehisi Coates for The Guardian – and on Monday Coates deleted his Twitter account. And that was after Richard Spencer, the White nationalist, took Cornel West’s side!
Coates:
“peace, y’all. i’m out. i didn’t get in it for this.”
West calls Coates “a brilliant brother” that we have much to learn from, yet:
By 2015 West was already saying stuff like this about Coates:
“Baldwin was a great writer of profound courage who spoke truth to power. Coates is a clever wordsmith with journalistic talent who avoids any critique of the Black president in power.”
In 2017, this past Sunday, West took it up another level and wrote a piece entitled, “Ta-Nehisi Coates is the Neoliberal Face of the Black Freedom Struggle”. It was mainly in answer to Coates’s new book, “We Were Eight Years in Power”.
West’s disagreement:
“The disagreement between Coates and me is clear: any analysis or vision of our world that omits the centrality of Wall Street power, US military policies, and the complex dynamics of class, gender, and sexuality in black America is too narrow and dangerously misleading. So it is with Ta-Nehisi Coates’ worldview.”
Coates says he does not write about that stuff because he does not know enough about it.
Writing for White people: Coates writes for The Atlantic, a White Liberal magazine. He writes beautifully written, thoughtful pieces about White racism and its roots in history – but then says there is not much anyone can do about racism. West:
“There is no doubt that the marketing of Coates – like the marketing of anyone – warrants suspicion. Does the profiteering of fatalism about white supremacy and pessimism of black freedom fit well in an age of Trump – an age of neo-fascism, US style?”
Hero worship: Coates’s world view is dangerously warped by Obama:
“Unfortunately, Coates’ allegiance to Obama has produced an impoverished understanding of black history. He reveals this when he writes:
‘Ossie Davis famously eulogized Malcolm X as “our living, Black manhood” and “our own Black shining prince.” Only one man today could bear those twin honorifics: Barack Obama.’
“This gross misunderstanding of who Malcolm X was – the greatest prophetic voice against the American Empire – and who Barack Obama is – the first black head of the American Empire – speaks volumes about Coates’ neoliberal view of the world.”
Protective stupidity: Coates calls Obama a “deeply moral human being” who “walked on ice and never fell.” Obama, the one deep in the pockets of Wall Street, the Drone Master himself, the bomber of brown people. The very sort of things Coates says he does not write about – because why?
West concludes:
“I stand with those like Robin DG Kelley, Gerald Horne, Imani Perry and Barbara Ransby who represent the radical wing of the black freedom struggle. We refuse to disconnect white supremacy from the realities of class, empire, and other forms of domination – be it ecological, sexual, or others.
“The same cannot be said for Ta-Nehisi Coates.”
– Abagond, 2017.
Source: mainly The Guardian.
See also:
- Cornel West
- Ta-Nehisi Coates
- Rented Negroes
- Melissa Harris-Perry – also condemned by West
- Barack Obama – also condemned by West
- Booker T. Washington
- protective stupidity
- White Liberals
- Black Liberals
- Richard Spencer at UF
- James Baldwin
552
Will Abagond go as far as suggesting that Ta-Nehisi Coates is rented?
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West is s hypocrite of the highest order. Bringing another brother down -in a white newspaper, I might add, while sitting at a desk at a white university 😒-sans picking up a phone and having a discussion, makes me completely lose the little bit of respect I had for him as a man and a professionall. Didn’t he support Trump? He brought the straight up racists, haters and bigots to the “fight.” A fight that shouldn’t have to be ; his arrogance and egoism is beyond the pale. His writings on Coates, largely incorrect. He’s like an aged out battle rapper from the late 80s trying to gun for rappers today—past his time, past his prime, past his relevance. He’s lost the young audience.
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Cyph3r is a moron. If you are representative of the “youth”, that’s truly sad. Abagond has engaged in the same disgraceful worship of US power by pretending to be so impressed by its hired representative, Mr. Barack H. Obama. Anybody who doubts what I wrote can turn to the nauseating series: “https://abagond.wordpress.com/2017/10/13/gratuitous-obama-pictures/”
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Obama and Clinton earned the undying hatred of every decent black person on earth for their crimes against black Libyans. Not so in the so-called ‘Black-American’ community that has shown a distressing tendency to go along with every act of imperialist brigandage their white masters care to commit, from the rape of Haiti in 1915, to the US sponsored pogrom against black Libyans in 2011. Only people like Cornel West mitigates this community from moral obloquy.
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He brought the straight up racists, haters and bigots to the “fight.” – Cyph3r
How so? Mr. West didn’t invite Spencer to “the fight”, apparently, he chimed in upon his own volition. Feel free to further express yourself and enlighten us all here.
His arrogance and egoism is beyond the pale. – Cyph3r
How so?
His writings on Coates, largely incorrect. – Cyph3r
How so and where within his critique of Coates, has he done so?
He’s lost the young audience. – Cyph3r
Judging from West’s criticism of Coates, he never intended to garner the support of the “young audience.” Although I surmise he would never turn them away either. It appears that he did quite a good job of pointing out how much Pres. Obomber was part and parcel to a governmental system that is still oppressing black folk through a matrix from a global standpoint.
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re: Cyph3r
No, sorry.
Both Coates and West endorsed Bernie Sanders in the primary, and after he lost to Hillary, West endorsed Jill Stein of the Green Party. Coates apparently shifted his support towards Hillary (TBC).
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@ gro jo
Yes, I used to be a big Obama fan. But even if you look at the Gratuitous Obama Pictures post itself, you will notice that the gushy stuff pretty much died out after his first year in office.
If you look under the See Also section of this post, you will notice I put Obama under the Rented Negro category.
How I currently feel about Obama is best expressed here:
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@ Cyph3r
That is an ad hominem argument, bashing West the man, not the substance of his arguments.
Truth is not determined by a popularity contest.
As Jefe pointed out, West was a Sanders/Stein supporter. If you think he would support Trump, then you do not know much about him.
West, whatever his personal shortcomings, has been far more fearless than Coates, both morally and physically. I do not remember seeing Coates at Charlottesville and he is a much younger man.
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@ Jefe
I think Coates has fallen into two traps in the White Liberal Guide to Black People:
Coates does #8 very well, and to a degree he provides a level of journalistic depth that is largely missing from the White Liberal press. But to do #8 while also doing #6 is troubling.
I think Coates means well, he does not strike me as a sell-out, but I think he has been stuck in the White Liberal New York Bubble for too long.
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Abagond, his crime against black libyans doesn’t warrant even a single protest from you 6 years after the crime. Your silence on slave markets in Libya is weird when you have lots of time for the last two, silly, posts, and, in my opinion, the Russia stole the election nonsense . Why?
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@ gro jo
I am working on a post on the Libyan slave trade. Just because I did not whip it out on your schedule hardly means I do not take it seriously.
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The Libyan thing started way before the slave trade thing. Your initial infatuation with Obama blinded you to the fact that over $778 million was spent to elect him. Don’t tell me you thought black folks were the ones who raised such colossal sum. It was obvious that he was a slick product from the advertising industry sold to the public like soap or any other commodity.
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More books i need to read!
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@gro jo
Whoa. That was a cold shot. But sadly, I think it’s true. I came to that same conclusion during his second term in office.
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BRO.WEST IS CORRECT !!, no way can you compare OMOWALI-EL HAJJ-MALIK-EL-SHABAZZ to Obama??
No iota of parity in :African ideology, philosophy ,[ John Henrik Clarke]
Black consciousness, political acuity in regard to Pan-African analysis. African centered in African armed struggle, analysis of WHITE SUPREMACY!!
…international resistance to empire… and establishing African ORGANIZATIONAL COLLECTIVE..[national identity …its NATION TIME!! ] ….
. agenda; TAKING our Maafa/Genocide To the U.N., as a Human rights issue..
Reparations Due Now !!
Obama was /is ,the black face of corporate hegemony!!
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What I get from Abagond is that Coates is not quite a white liberal with a black face, but he has acquired enough characteristics to be “rented” and therefore less theatening to liberal white sensibilities.
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I heartily enjoy the toing and froing here.
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To me, there is more to both West and Coates than meets the eye in this particular situation.
West has been willing to put his life on the line in the the struggle for justice. He has stated on many occasions that that level of commitment is necessary to advance the goals he holds dear. In fact, West was on the ground in Charlottlesville this past year, protesting against tiki torch fascists. West also tends to express himself with a great deal of passion and strong words.
Coates holds another view of commitment to Black struggle. In a 2015 interview on Democracy Now!, Coates talks about how his view of Black struggle was informed by the words of Malcolm X:
https://www.democracynow.org/2015/11/27/between_the_world_and_me_ta
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I found Coate’s praise of Obama as a “deeply moral human being” pretty delusional. Coates hasn’t always felt that way about Obama. In that same 2015 interview, Coates had this to say about Obama:
Like others who have followed Coates career, I wonder where and how he was seduced into supporting Obama. Based on the few quotes I’ve seen from his latest work, Coates is now firmly in the Obama orbit. That is bad enough, but a sampling of articles on the web that defend Coates in this latest call-out by West showed a dismaying tendency by Black bloggers and writers to be captured by the same gravitational forces that hold Coates in place around Obama.
There were a lot of snide, ad hominem attacks on the life, character and person of West. There was also a variety of distractions by those writers which included: The Tone Argument, Red Herrings and clumsy mischaracterizations of what West said and meant. Only one writer dealt with West’s central concerns like global financial capital, the war state and their relationship to class, gender and sexual oppression. Sad to say, that writer was not Black or American. That writer, Shailja Patel, (among others) can be found here:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/dec/22/-ta-nehisi-coates-cornel-west-black-academic-activists-debate-equality
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Once again, kiwi’s ‘penetrating’, one might even say, racist mind has cut thru all the African mumbo jumbo passing as ‘serious’ conversation here to get to the ‘heart’ of the matter.
It’s all a Coon show put on for the amusement of “White liberal elite”! Our boy, like all racists, can read the “Negro” mind, piece of cake given how primitive it is. West is jealous because Obama and Coates are better beggars then he is.
Our high SAT critic wants to put on his more ‘refined’ and ‘sophisticated’ “Coolie” version of said show but he can’t find an appreciative audience because the “white conservative elite” is addicted to the rough humor of the KKK. What’s one to do then? Why, show up where he’s not wanted and vomit his contempt. An emetic cure if you please.
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“I’ll just step out of their way and let them carry on.”
My, my, such ‘modesty’! Thanks for ‘trying’ to ‘rescue’ us from ourselves. Will you now turn your amazing brain to Asian problems?
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@afrofem i read that today
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@v8driver
What did you read today?
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“…Black leaders have fooled the masses into thinking they are just as smart as they are when really, they are just tools to be used by these con men. The market demands a victimization narrative…”
More “Racial Grievance Industry” claptrap.
Must be a slow week at wowo and the anti-Black reddits where Kiwi usually hangs out for entertainment and psuedo-enlightenment. This is just as silly as the privileged White folk who come here to complain about how they are victims of “discrimination”. Hah!
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Found this analysis interesting:
Cornel West’s attacks on Ta-Nehisi Coates, explained
Coates is the latest target in West’s war against Obama.
https://www.vox.com/identities/2017/12/20/16795746/ta-nehisi-coates-cornel-west-twitter
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@ jefe
Thanks for the link. Two things struck me reading that article:
🔎 Coates seems to have a lot of Establishment backing. Lots of high profile journalists, pundits and bloggers ready to jump to his defense. That in in itself gives me pause.
🔎 None of the blog posts and articles I surveyed (reading down to page eight of a Google search on Coates) went into any detail about the obvious (?) large numbers of people who agreed with West. Those people remained voiceless in this dispute. Their impact is measured only in Coates reaction by deleting his Twitter account.
Coates journalistic defenders always mention them in passing——–and then only to highlight the most ridiculous comments (such as the Two Dudes Fighting meme). People who agreed with West’s assessment and their concerns, are artfully rendered mute.
✧✧✧✧✧✧✧✧✧✧✧✧✧✧✧✧✧✧✧✧✧✧✧✧✧✧✧✧✧✧✧✧✧✧✧✧✧✧✧✧✧✧✧✧✧✧✧✧✧✧✧✧✧✧✧✧✧✧✧✧✧✧
A Coates quote about the centrality of anti-Black racism in US federal policy struck a nerve:
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What I cull from this toing and froing: You can’t be everything to everybody.
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@ Herneith
Pretty much.
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@Afrofem
That excerpt also struck a nerve with me too.
It is a fundamental, yet thorny problem with no easy resolution.
Universalist policies will help Americans across a wide spectrum of racial and ethnic groups, but some groups will proportionately be left behind.
Race-focused (or any group-focused) policies target specific groups, and by definition exclude others that might benefit from more universalist-oriented policies (and will invite their opposition).
We can’t pick one over the other. We need to design policies that have universalist appeal, but with provisions to make sure that certain groups don’t get left behind. Or we design policies that might be targeted to certain (racial) groups, but still have universalist appeal and benefit. We cannot say, “It’s not race, it’s class.” We need to say “It’s both race and class.”
If we don’t do this, we will end up with no policies that help anyone, except for the groups profiting off of this policy dichotomy disadvantaging both the poor and POC.
So, unfortunately, making it purely about race will make it a hard sell, but maybe we can still use proxies for race (or language, religion, immigration status) in universalist policies that will ensure that certain groups do not get left behind.
And … we need leaders that do not allow universalist policies (eg, AFDC) to be racialized into stereotypes such as the black welfare queen. That leadership has to come from the top.
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@ jefe
Good points.
I agree that “…making it purely about race will make it a hard sell…”. That would be true at any point in this nation’s history. Perhaps one way to sell universalist policies is to design them around simple inclusion—–everyone in, no one out—–for all citizens and residents.
Future policy makers could drop the complicated means testing that is a legacy of Puritanism and adopt a pragmatic acceptance of all persons in this country as worthy. A blanket geographic dispersion of services and benefits to every state, county and town would render a good deal of selling on race alone moot.
Even as I write this, I’m aware of the utopian society I’m describing: inclusive, accepting and pragmatic. I realize how far removed the US and other countries are from this ideal. In the real world, humans always jostle for resources, like hogs at a feed trough.
In the real world, people separate themselves over any perceived difference. They have and will continue to seek advantages for themselves and deny advantages to others. The simple solution will be discarded because of tradition, animus or lack of vision.
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Making policies about race is one reason that something like reparations for slavery will likely be forever doomed, if it we make it something specifically about being black (or any “racial” factor). We have to make it about slavery specifically and not about being black.
You might ask, what about the reparations for the Japanese-American internment? Wasn’t that about race? Well, not exactly. The internment experience was certainly about race, but the reparations went directly to people who lived in the camps. Japanese-Americans who did not live in the camps
(eg, those in Hawaii, or maybe some on the East Coast) would not have received reparations. But theoretically, if a black, white or Latino spouse joined their Japanese-American spouse and children in the camps, then such person should be eligible for reparations — because they lived in the camps, not because they were ethnic Japanese. I would have to check and see if there were such cases.
So, with reparations for slavery, it would have to be linked directly to ante-bellum slavery, not to being black and not linked to current economic status (and possibly not even to current nationality). For example, we could suggest that a benefit recipient would have to demonstrate that at least 50% of their ancestors were slaves in 1865. This would have been a nightmare just 20-30 years ago, but maybe possible nowadays with the digitalization of records. Maybe a person could pay $200 (could be subsidized) to an ancestry service and they get a whole list of ancestors from 1865 with their slave status. The result could be that some eligible recipients might identify as white or native american nowadays, yet maybe half the black Americans alive today would not be eligible, especially if they had a large number of ancestors who came to the USA after 1865 or who had some ancestors that had already been freed before the Civil War. But theoretically, someone like Oprah Winfrey would still be eligible. Obama and his kids would not (maybe Michelle only).
And the corollary arguments, about the post-Civil war disenfranchisement, mass incarceration or Jim Crow or “universalist” policies (GI Bill, Social Security) largely denied to blacks — that would have to be a different kind of reparation that targets those directly affected, and also would not be able to be specifically about race.
We need some reparations for other things not necessarily benefiting many blacks, eg, Indian boarding schools. Many of those people are still alive.
re: dropping means testing
We would have to have a set of universalist policies that every citizen is eligible for, ie, education, health care, housing, public security, food, transportation, maternity/paternity leave, retirement. It would be set at the basic level for sustainable survival. Even wealthy persons may suddenly be bankrupt and need to avail of the services, but it is open to everyone. But everyone has to pay into it, up to their capability.
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I can’t help but think West is still bitter about Obama ignoring him and Tavis Smiley when they thought they would gain access to him because they were supposed to be the so called voices of the black American community. West still comes across as salty in regards to Obama. Yes, there were many things that were problematic about Obama and his presidency so i agree that Obama is not above being critiqued.
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I remember reading a quote by prolific author Toni Morrison “I’ve been wondering who might fill the intellectual void that plagued me after James Baldwin died. Clearly, it is Ta-Nehisi Coates.” I wonder did Coates head swell? Those are huge shoes to fill. And what an anointing by one of the most prolific literary voices of our generation.
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So what good is any of these academic essays whether they come from Cornel West or Ta-Nehisi Coates if it’s not moving the black community forward?
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@ jefe
While I don’t think the reparations issue is “forever doomed”, I do agree that the issue is not likely to get much traction at this point in history. Most non-Black Americans have a single narrative about Black Americans. According to that narrative, Black people (both nationally and globally) are genetically inferior, larcenous, lazy layabouts (blah, blah, blah) who want handouts from everyone else.
The majority of Americans (White, Black and Other) don’t know more than the broad outlines of the history of enslavement of Africans in this country. They don’t have a clue about the laws, practices and policies after the Emancipation Proclamation of 1863 that hindered African American economic, political, social and educational development————for decades. They are also hazy about who benefited (and continues to benefit) from slavery, Jim Crow and mass imprisonment. They don’t know how Black people were sidelined in policies that enriched millions of White families such as the Homestead Act of 1862, FHA home loans, Social Security and the GI Bill. That is why I think any genuine attempt at reparations in the future must be preceded by a massive public education campaign that delves into a detailed history of this country.
Not all of the harm done to Black people that warrants collective compensation lay in past centuries. Some of the harm is ongoing. For example, I recently came across an article that illustrates how mass imprisonment has been an economic engine for rural and small town White workers. ProPublica Illinois interviewed a local reporter at the Southern Illinoisan newspaper who attributed some of the region’s economic woes to the closing of prisons that used to be filled with Black and Latinx prisoners from the Chicago area. That reporter noted:
https://www.propublica.org/article/molly-parker-southern-illinoisan-interview
Solitary Watch, a prison news website, reported in 2012 about the high salaries of the Tamms prison staff. They cited an annual payroll of $18.7 million for 300 employees.
http://solitarywatch.com/2012/12/04/tamms-supermax-report-reveals-more-guards-than-prisoners-soaring-costs/
The Prison Industrial complex has burdened individual Black families and the entire community with a loss of human and financial capital. Money has been siphoned away from families that could have been used to buy homes, fund education and stash away for retirement.
In addition to the mass imprisonment regime, the Black community was swindled out of millions of dollars in the predatory lending scams that led to the 2007 financial meltdown. There has also been a general disinvestment in schools and infrastructure in Black communities since the 1960s. Many of those people are still alive and struggling from day to day.
Just as important as financial compensation for policies that either bypassed or harmed Black families would be recognition of the contributions to America by people of African descent. I don’t think that recognition alone would magically change negative and bigoted attitudes against Black Americans, but it might be a positive first step.
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@ jefe
One universal policy that piqued my interest lately is a Federal Jobs Guarantee (FJG). Similar to the WPA of the 1930s, a FJG would allow people who are pushed to the margins of the current job market or locked out altogether (such as the disabled, former prisoners and older workers) to work and contribute to the economy.
I recently came across an article that described five benefits of a FJG. When compared to the current system or a proposed Universal Basic Income (UBI), FJG in tandem with universal policies you mentioned such as fully funded public education, health care, housing, public security, food, transportation, maternity/paternity leave,[and] retirement could lift many people beyond the level of survival to a more comfortable lifestyle.
https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2017/12/sounds-better-guaranteed-basic-income-federal-job-guartantee.html
I agree that the cost of universal policies must be borne by all citizens ——-everyone in, no one out.
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If you make an income you already pay taxes [most of which goes to military spending] so there needs to be no further form of funding of any policies. I am largely against government mandates to purchase things.
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“I am working on a post on the Libyan slave trade. Just because I did not whip it out on your schedule hardly means I do not take it seriously.”
I have said on a few occasions that racist Arabs who call black people ‘abeed’ (slaves) are not automatic allies just because they have grouses with the white power structure. Many black people in that part of the world are up to their eyeballs in 5hit from them even when they are muslims themselves.
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If you make an income you already pay taxes [most of which goes to military spending] so there needs to be no further form of funding of any policies
In theory, yes.
In reality, corporations and wealthy individuals have always enjoyed loopholes, carve outs and tax shelters. That was true when the effective tax rate was 90% in the 1950s and it is true now that Trump (and his predecessors) freed them from any taxes at all.
One reason the Repubs had to massively increase the deficit was so that they can sell the falsehood that they need to get rid of the dedicated tax that funds Social Security——their ultimate goal. Thing is Social Security has nothing to do with the budget or any deficits.
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For that Libya article:
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I think a lot about the forces in the Global North that set this outrage in motion. While the people on the ground are responsible for their actions, I’m sure there is help in the background from overseas.
Some people have speculated that when Ghaddafi proposed a United States of Africa, he was marked for death.
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Well, there were racist Arabs in Libya who hated black migrants, hated Qadafi and didn’t want “Pan-Africanism” either. Obviously that played right into the hands of those in the West who wanted to depose him in that allies of convenience already existed.
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I saw someone on twitter link to this while I was catching up on #iranprotests
It’s about racism in Egypt. Unfortunately it’s a video I don’t understand the language but google translate of the title
صحاب البشرة السوداء في مصر يشتكون من التفرقة
العنصرية ضدهم
gives
“The black-skinned people in Egypt complain of discrimination Racism against them”
The linker [Joyce Karam] said:
So the people who erroneously think Muslim is a race (when “Christian” isn’t) might be surprised to learn that an ACTUAL RACE is often discriminated against in Muslim countries just as Christianized Africans have experienced in the West.
Racists in Libya needed no “convincing” from the West to attack and “purge” black Libyans. Of course, the Clinton state department also turned a blind eye to what was happening because their “freedom fighters” were about to bring down Qaddafi.
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@ Origin
I was surprised to see the young woman walking in public without hijab in the video. From what I’ve read even women in hijab and niqab are harassed. Supposedly, the harassment intensifies if a woman is in public unveiled.
Egypt is in quite a reactionary period right now. However, even in the most liberal of times, Egyptian men have a nasty reputation for constant sexual harassment.
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[…] Abagond – Cornel West on Ta-Nehisi Coates […]
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Almost five years ago Abagond wrote the following: ” on Fri Dec 22nd 2017 at 02:59:43
abagond
@ gro jo
I am working on a post on the Libyan slave trade. Just because I did not whip it out on your schedule hardly means I do not take it seriously.”
Abagond, I must have missed that post. Please let me know where and when you posted it. It’s only a decade after the event.
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@ gro jo
Yes, I need to write a post on the Libyan slave trade – and also on the war in Ethiopia.
I backed off from writing the post on the Libyan slave trade in 2017 because it was hard to tell how true or extensive it was.
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Because the ‘respectable’ sources, i.e. NYT, Washington Post, etc., weren’t pushing it like they pushed stories about Gaddafi’s ‘rape squads’, ‘heroic’ Syrians fighting a dictator, or the Chinese army “…shooting and shooting and shooting…” ‘heroic’ Chinese students until the square was cleared. I wonder why?
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