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Is Obama a Rented Negro?

otayIs President Barack Obama a Rented Negro? Is he just a black face on white opinion and power?

President Obama remains silent about race. He almost never disagrees with white liberal opinion. He does little about the War on Drugs, the mass incarceration of black men, racial profiling, police brutality, poverty, unsafe neighbourhoods, high black unemployment, high rates of infant mortality, segregation in housing and education, environmental racism, the growing wealth gap – or about gun control until white children were gunned down.

Even George W. Bush had more blacks in his cabinet. He had four, Obama has only one.

When Jeremiah Wright and Shirley Sherrod were accused by whites of saying racist things, he took it at face value and dropped them. He said he could no more disown Reverend Wright than the black community – but then did six weeks later.

Close your eyes and he is a white liberal. He is arguably to the right of Nixon, who at least tried to do something about the racial segregation of schools.

Obama is limited by Congress, but he does not let that stop him from taking a stand on gay rights, becoming the first president to support same-sex marriage, the first to allow gays to serve openly in the military.

All that blacks get are public scoldings about bad parenting and class-based policies, like Obamacare, helping blacks only as a side effect of helping whites. Franklin Roosevelt can maybe get away with that stuff as “not knowing any better”, but not Obama.

If he helps blacks too openly whites will accuse him of racism, but even they expect some pushback, even they expect him to act like a president and show some moral courage by taking a stand and speaking out. Deep down they know things are still screwed up. As a black president who can move white audiences with his words, he has the power to shame them into doing the right thing.

Maybe he lacks courage. Maybe his hands are tied by the millions he took from big banks and big business to become president. Maybe he feels he has to kiss up to white people to maintain and exercise power. Maybe he is just a smooth-talking technocrat. Maybe he is a front man.

But then why did he put his hand on the Bibles of both – both!!! – Abraham Lincoln and Martin Luther King, Jr? Both were men of great courage and moral authority on race, men who died trying to make the country better, men whose words ring in our heads still, like they were our fathers.

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To clothe himself in their moral authority and then do or say little about race is to say that racism is pretty much dead. It certainly allows white people to believe that.

If he goes on like this, then I will have to conclude that he is a Rented Negro of the worst and most cynical sort.

I hope and pray that I will be proved wrong.

See also:

550 Responses

  1. you won’t be proved wrong abagond. i don’t know why some people thought he was going to come into office and do anything for black people. he’s a politician, he’s really no different than the other liberal white presidents we’ve had. I knew that from the get-go and that’s why I really didn’t jump on the obama bandwagon his first time around. people expect him to be in favor of black people, but black issues aren’t a top priority of politicians, they rarely have ever been unless they somehow impact white people…so why people thought Obama who was raised by “liberal white people,” any way would be different is beyond me.

    he’s better than clarence thomas though.

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  2. I’m ambivalent. I can see your points Abagond, but do you really think the first “black” president was going to rock the boat. You saw what happen with Rev. Wright debacle, Henry Lois Gate’s break-in, Travyon Martin speak out. His first reaction was the right one, then Obama had to remember who he’s playing for “the appeal of White America.” I also think the powerful presence of Pres. Obama brings when my children look at the screen and say, “hey look Mommy- it’s Borock Oboma.” :-) someone of their complexion and his beautiful family-that speaks volumes. I guess that does something to my psyche. And hopefully theirs, that they can do anything they set their minds to.

    Maybe the next “black” prez will do what Obama couldn’t. Who knows, maybe he will do like Clinton and pardon a bunch of black folks on his way out the door. Only time will tell.

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  3. Like is often said, black people dropped our books and forgot our history lessons. Let me apologize in advance for posting such a long response but I am compelled to say this

    We KNOW power isn’t given, it must be taken

    so knowing that we also know President Obama being “given” a powerful position by the most powerful white people in the U.S actually means he has NO POWER AT ALL

    How do we know this is true?

    By the lack of respect he receives from people with less powerful positions, like the white male federal judge who said publicly that President Obama’s mother had sex with a dog and that’s how he was born

    and the white female Jan Brewer, Arizona governor, who wagged her finger in his face in full view of TV cameras

    and the white male civil servant cop who was “invited” to the White House after he arrested Harvard Professor Gates (a black male) in his own home — as a way of President Obama apologizing for saying “…the police behaved stupidly…”

    YET when Vice-Prez Cheney (a white male) shot a man in the face in a hunting accident, the man (with less power) apologized to Cheney for “…causing his family so much trouble…”

    That’s what REAL power looks like.

    We KNOW that President Obama didn’t come from us and wasn’t raised by us, which means the first thing we should have asked is who sent him to represent us?

    Why would we compare him to Martin Luther King and Malcolm X both of who came from the streets, from the BLACK grassroots and were selected BY black people — and who were ultimately punished (murdered) — NOT rewarded with cushy book deals, Harvard degrees and high political offices.

    Two thoughts that should be axioms in the minds of all black people:

    #1 — No one rewards their enemies

    #2 — Any oppressed people that allow their oppressors to choose their leaders will remain oppressed

    We also KNOW that no black person in the U.S. is giving orders to the most powerful whites (and Jews). We know this is true where we work and live so why would the WHITE HOUSE be an exception??

    We KNOW that no group that is smart enough to be in power is stupid enough to educate, nominate, and finance someone who wants to destroy or diminish their power

    Unfortunately, our enemies know how black people collectively think because they programmed us and emotionally traumatized us over a 500-year period and used that knowledge because of our endless desire to have another “black leader” who might relieve our mass suffering.

    We were given another “first blac ” symbol of progress so we would not open our eyes and see what is really happening to us and DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT ourselves, finally understanding that we cannot rely on the person who injured to make us well.

    “First black” symbols hide the reality of the so-called civil rights clock turning backwards in the form of

    sky-high black unemployment

    “gentrification” (racial dislocation) to move blacks out of prime inner-city areas

    more black schools closing

    more black people incarcerated

    increasing racism in the workplace, and in the media

    There are other even more sinister reasons why a black male was chosen as president at this time of economic and political and geo-political instability (can anyone spell “scapegoat”) but I’ve already taken too much time

    I’ll end by saying that we must put our wishful thinking, desire for racial inclusion, and our egos on the back burner and open our eyes and admit the undeniable truth:

    we have been BAMBOOZLED

    now it’s time to put on our thinking caps, rev up our self-respect levels, and come up with realistic, self-respecting, and constructive strategies for our economic, political, and psychological survival.

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  4. Your post is all the things I’ve been going back and forth in my head about. What it all boils down to plain and simple is Obama is nothing but a politian with a smooth way with words. Yes I voted for him because I detested Mittt Romney. But to be honest Obama is the flip side of the same dirty coin. Yes he threw Shirley Sherrod under the bus but she came back resilient afterwards. I undrstand Tavis Smiley and Cornel West criticism of him now, I used to think they were being malicious but the truth is Barack Obama cares nothing for what’s going on in the African American community he doesn’t address any of the issues that are going on. But I just have to face the fact that at the end of the day he’s just a politician. I was naieve before but now I must face the facts about our Commander In Chief. I am very disappointed in him. It’s up to African Americans to unite and ix our own problems. Obama made it pretty clear African Americans will not get any assistance from him. We have to fix our own communtiy There is no savior coming for us. If not us then who will help besides ourselves and Afican Americans better get a revelation and an undestanding of this. Great post Abagond.

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  5. I read Randall Robinson’s book Quitting America. I have decided to make plans to leave America for good. America will never change . I am going to renounce my American citizenship .

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  6. In his hometown of Chicago where more than 500 deaths due to gun violence, did he acknowledge that. I hate be harsh but when the Sandy Hook elementary incident took place we saw him weeping. Yes It was tragic and I was sad for them as well. But what about the dead black and brown youth in urban communities? Does he weep for them? I am pretty worked up rightnow as I’m trying to convey my thoughts. I have to be honest and say I am feling some kind of way about Barack Obama. And I never thougth that I would be agreeing with Tavis Smiley and Cornel West. The handwriting is on the wall my people we need to save ourselves.

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  7. ALL Presidents are “rented.” If he was not, he would not be President. There is not going to be a Black activist President who sets his own agenda to correct Black racial grievances.

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  8. @ Trojan Pam: That was sucinctly and briliantly stated. It was the truth and the summary of this whole post.

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  9. Well Abagond , you are finally waking up to what most black in black led countries see everyday. Five years too late, but better than never.

    http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/how_do_you_take_your_poison_20120924/

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  10. See this is why I didn’t want an African American President, because I knew he/she couldn’t do a damn thing for black folks. My first clue we were in trouble was when the media made him renounce his minister. If you won’t stand up for your minister…..

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  11. Just check out my nigga Chris Hedges on this

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  12. Like commenter King said ACTIVIST, that is the operative word here. And activist Obama is not. He is a puppet and has no power. I don’t think we will ever see a black activist president in America because they can’t have their own agenda. They are slaves to the rich power brokers. I think I was foolishly entertaining the idea that Obama was going to be some kind of savior for the black community. That was just plain dumb. He belongs to the rich power brokers. That is the dirty business of politics. Black America needs to study and learn this.

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  13. Of course, if you want to put it that way, Mr. Obama IS a “Rented Negro” … but who else in his position(POTUS) is not?? It is the BIG MONEY PLAYERS who run the show , and are who , have always … this is how business works , post-Western Industrial Revolution , Show me the money = Change/Political movement . Yes he IS a black face , but this is more than a Minstrel Show for many black American’s … I cannot predict how soon we will see another black president , but a feel better as a black American , having “had” the experience of a black president , than not .

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  14. In 08 he told us he would “change” Washington by not allowing big banks, big lobbyists and corporations donate to his campaign… We found out that was a lie he did it more than anyone in history in both 08 and 12. He speaks from a script, and when he doesn’t have it in front of him he seems flustered. I think he might have meant well, but when you look at his upbringing and the radical people who brought him up I’m not sure I want what he means anyway. I definitely don’t want what the Goldman Sacs people who dominate his cabinet and advisory team want, and you shouldn’t either. I think there are black people who get caught up in color and won’t take any criticism of him especially from a white person. I think it’s telling when you even have intelligent people like Samuel L. Jackson coming out and saying he voted for him again this time around primarily for his “color”. Which is not acceptable imo for a president. I liked Ronald Reagan as a young kid growing up, but it had nothing to do with his color. I did not like George H.W. Bush. I liked Clinton. I did not like George W. Bush. I liked Obama at first, I am starting to have a big dislike for him. With him it’s even worse than Bush, because unlike Bush who “knows not what he do”, Obama is a brilliant Constitutional Lawyer who understands exactly what he does.

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  15. So far, I only see one POTUS, a couple of Senators (one of which is tea-party), handful of Reps and a conservative SC justice in a sea of mostly old white men…that’d make just about anyone look “rented”! Heck, I think all he had to do was show up to have this nut-jobs out in full force.

    Trojan Pam makes some valid points. The “beast” ain’t changing it’s spots by the end of the work day (unless the script is flipped in the above number’s game), so folks need to kill that “not talking enough, talking too little” about so-called race. Get the house in order (all that money leaving the community is one example…O_o), network with the global comrades, and the rest is gravy.

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  16. He seems like a modern day Booker T. Washington. Maybe you should add the link to that topic that you did a few years ago.

    Like Booker T, he learned to follow and play up to the white power structure, whilst simultaneously improving himself.

    And perhaps like Booker T. Washington, he privately supports the idea of blacks and other Americans fighting for their civil rights and against institutionalized racism (I think it shows up here and there), but recognizes that as President, he will be more effective by playing with, and not against, the white power structure. Booker T. was also effective in this way.

    Maybe, he will be more effective in that regard as an EX-president, in a position that he does not have to be elected to.

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  17. on Fri 15 Feb 2013 at 18:21:54 StilettoTreeHugger

    Wow … I thought a President was a President of all people, not just a select group. Hence why White Presidents, send out “olive branch” politics to “minority” communities.

    Did people really think he was going to be Superman and rescue people from what ails them?

    Did people really think “White America” was going to put a “Black Agenda” ahead of … Native Americans, White, Asian, Latino, Arab agendas??

    If President Obama put forth a “Black Agenda” what was it going to solve?? Was it going to erase the past 500 years? Was it going to get back the 100 million indigenous peoples, who still suffer under opressive behavior? Was a Black President going to stop gang violence?? If so how was the President going to do it? Take the guns and hand a peace lilly?

    How was the President going to heal the emotional pain people feel?

    You mean to say, that once a Black man was voted in … gangsters were going to go to college?? Drug dealers were going to stop … what??

    Why is it that Black America expected one man to solve the problems of 40 million people??

    Did he have to magical wand to wave over White people to be more sensitive and apologetic? Did he have some magical wand to erase past transgressions??

    A person is only as powerful as the people who keep him in power. As powerful as the millions that do his bidding.

    Did Black America start doing business in Minority only communities?

    Just wondering … why people think a Politician was going to magically give them an education and a job.

    How was the President going to tell Black America to do X,Y, Z and they would follow?? How was the President going to get the other 310,000,000 Americans to start being civil.

    Heck Michelle can’t even tell people to eat healthy, without people losing their minds.

    The President, is President of all people … however your local black elected officials have more power to make a difference in Black communities than any President.

    But hey … ultimately White America, wants you to be disastified with the First Black President … because maybe just maybe, you’ll be so disappointed you’ll never vote for another Black President again.

    Well played White America … you won … you have successfully have turned Black America against the one guy who served as a role model, for our children, But hey … it wasn’t good enough, because we were expecting a miracle!!

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  18. @ Dave M

    I understand your feelings about having experienced a black president, it is a sentiment echoed by many black people.

    unfortunately, the whites in power have used our “feelings” to create the illusion of progress without giving up any real power or privilege and this has been done over and over and over with great success.

    Just give oppressed blacks another “black progress” symbol without substance and they won’t notice the difference.

    For black people to believe any black person — even a black president — can be ‘given” real power in a white supremacy system where whites control ALL the institutions of power — is pure escapism a.

    It is time for us to be honest about this, only then will we be able to create realistic solutions to our problems instead of falling for another “first black” con game

    It is even more important to teach our children the difference between being good VS feeling good so they won’t make the same mistakes

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  19. Inregards to helping the black population; I doubt he could ever do anything that was blatantly about just helping black people, regardless of whether he is a rented negro or not.

    Basically; do you honestly think Obama could have done anything about gun control until “after” it was white people affected?

    Didn’t some one on this blog actually make the argument that one of the reasons for why Obama is so big on deporting the undocumented is the possibility of making more open jobs for black people on the lower end of the economy?

    And while he may not have done anything to help out the middle class or poor, what about the rich black people? Anything that could be a benefit to them?

    A good point is basically made by Trojan Pam, a lot of people put the blame for how the economy got its way on Obama but somehow forgot it was Bush who put us here in the first place and Obama certainly didn’t get his respect as due President of the US.

    Though something of interest; one thing I’ve heard is that Obama actually runs the Presidency somewhat like he plays Poker.

    Doesn’t like to gamble or take risks etc….been awhile since I’ve heard it but it seemed to make sense at the time.

    Basically the concept was; he’s technically good and is a decent player but not being willing to take risks or gamble means he’ll never be a “great” poker player. And that kind of shows in his presidency; how he’s kind of the “great compromiser”.

    He keeps trying to please both sides of the aisle but ultimately ends up weakening his own self because republicans and conservatives don’t understand compromise or anything of that nature. Obama thinks if he gives a little here he might get the Republicans to give a little there. Republicans don’t work that way.

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  20. @jefe
    Pretty interesting comparison with Booker T.

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  21. @ Trojan Pam

    I do not disagree with your sentiments regarding the Black Community being honest with ourselves … and speaking honestly and frankly , how far has that gotten us in 150 years? Our forefathers and mothers knew full well that our quest for social equality would be a struggle , but I believe that they had also “counted on” the trajectory of our social empowerment to parallel that of other non-black American’s .
    I look at the Presidential election , and even more importantly , the re-election of Barack Obama , as an psychological victory , albiet in a short-term sense … this is , I believe , how our community must operate with-in our current reality of white supremacy . When it is percieved by whites that “we” have achieved too much , or have too much “power” , big money Whites get very restless … The collective guilt with-in White America is over-whelming and ALWAYS ‘just’ under the surface of any interaction with the Black Community .
    President Obama will do as much as he can for us, and I could never know , really , his effort to do for Black People.

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  22. @ darth,

    ever since i went to brazil, i’ve seriously been thinking about either moving there or going to visit a few countries in Africa and moving there, not just for the politics, but the culture and job opportunities it is SO HARD TO find jobs in the country. i am not planning on renouncing my citizenship, but i wouldn’t mind living abroad for 2-5 years, just to get a break from the US, its racism and everything for a while, then maybe I’ll come back if things are different. I’m serious too, i’m already looking at jobs and programs overseas

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  23. Aba

    Not only is Barry rented, he’s going to make sure that our men, women and children are re-enslaved via the 13th Amendment. Research the growing numbers of privatized prisons and the role Ritalin plays in the scheme.

    Research the Patriot Act and how drones in the USA WILL be utilized to “catch” and destroy us.

    Research Africom and the United Nations and the REAL reason so many whites, including celebrities, are adopting our children.

    Research beta waves and why there’s a push to digitize everything, including a new home alarm system that you can set from another country.

    Research why Monsanto makes “food” including McDonald’s Fries which are made out of plastic.

    Research the “death” of the blonde, Sandy Hook Caucasian child that he wept for.

    Research the ObamaCare law that will take place this Spring and what it really means and how psychiatry and Big Pharma plays a large role in it.

    Barry, a dark-skinned white man, will lead us into the gas chamber. We were duped into integration, duped by MLK’s Dream, duped by the Civil Rights movement, duped by feminism, duped by Oprah, Russell Simmons and the other Rented Negroes who make up less than half of 1% of black wealth.

    My question is:

    WHEN WILL BLACK PEOPLE WAKE THE HELL UP?

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  24. I’m English and I don’t really follow american politics, therefore I don’t know what President Obama has or hasn’t said with regard to the problems that black americans suffer. As I understand it an american president can only stand for office for two consecutive terms unlike in the u.k. a prime minister can stand many times, I just wonder as this is Obama’s second and final term, maybe he could do something or at least condem the atrocities that occur against blacks as it won’t affect his political life, as he does not have to suck up to the white massess.

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  25. Truth said this:
    Research why Monsanto makes “food” including McDonald’s Fries which are made out of plastic. And I thought, “hmm?”

    Then I saw this:

    (http://youtu.be/XjAucBQa9rs)

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  26. He [Obama] is arguably to the right of Nixon, who at least tried to do something about the racial segregation of schools.

    Anything Nixon or the rest of them did for blacks or other members of the public were not benevolent gifts, they were effects of popular struggle and demand by the public through activism. Nixon did not, “try to do something about racial segregation.” He responded to popular pressures that he would have wished were not being put to him and his administration.

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  27. To add to my previous comments, you should demand the same from a white president and not just because Obama is black.

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  28. Totally agree that Obama is a rented negro. The fact that his election was used to falsely herald the coming of a color blind age speaks to that. The only instance I can think of where Obama showed any courage when it came to African American issues is when he spoke about the Trayvon Martin shooting.

    However, I don’t agree that he only helps blacks as a side-effect of helping whites, which would mean he only cares about helping white people. I think he cares about helping the poor. Which does help black people, but it is not enough.

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  29. Agabond,
    With your Caribbean heritage I imagine you may heard the expression, “Playing dead to catch corbeaux alive”? Some battles are won with patience and some are won with force. But never are they won with fear.

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  30. I don’t feel disappointed too much.He is biracial afterall and some of them do look out for their white side.All i can say is we will have a latino president and he will look out and speak about the latino community.Unfortunately we may not have that from Obama.Idc because a politician is just that a politician a puppet for the banks.They always start off for the people but forget what they are all about,and the ones that don’t forget who they are get assassinated.

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  31. Did yall really think we would have a pro black president,yeah right these whites wouldn’t be able to handle a malcolm x or bill cosby kinda president.The only time obama addressed an issue in the black community was trayvon martin then once the whites attacked him he put his tail between his legs.He has done more for gays and women than blacks.He will never just address blacks specifically only the communities that have some blacks in it.Those communities have a small percent of blacks and majority whites they say for everyone but mostly to benefit whites.

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  32. @ Dave M.

    I believe the fundamental problem with blacks collectively is our NOT understanding the real problem: racism/white supremacy.

    It is not our fault that we do not understand, because we were taken into slavery, de-humanized and robbed of our culture and identity, and given a new non-identity that did not allow us to regain an understanding of who we were. The proof of lack of knowledge of self is we are still using our SLAVE NAMES – meaning we have NO idea who we are — if we’re honest

    to underestimate the devastating effect of that on the collective psyche of a people over a 500 year period and then expect total recovery in 40 years while still being damaged is not a reasonable expectation.

    And it also means ignoring the FACT that all of us — including myself — are still severely damaged in spite of our incomes, education and social graces.

    If blacks have not made enough “progress” in those 150 years you mentioned, think about the gargantuan efforts made by this system to thwart EVERY attempt at making progress from Reconstruction to the Black Codes to Jim Crow segregation to subverting true Civil rights into racist SUBJUGATION disguised as INTEGRATION, to crack cocaine (as a weapon of mass destruction), mass incarceration of over one million black people, and widespread racial dislocation (gentrification) to keep us from building stable communities, and the list is too long.

    Try to imagine the kind of “black progress” we could have made as a people had Black Wall Street never been destroyed? We must understand that in a white supremacy system (like America) we will never be allowed to make real progress; otherwise how can white supremacy and white privilege continue to exist and dominate?

    Once we understand how white supremacy functions (instead of shrinking from the concept) we will understand that if President Obama was CHOSEN and FINANCED by the most powerful white people in America that he is WORKING for the most powerful white people in America.

    President Obama was (S)elected; NOT elected. He was NOT selected to help black people because we are NOT HIS BOSSES because we did not finance him, nominate him or elect him because black votes do NOT decide a presidential election. The evidence of WHO his bosses are is evidenced by President Obama extending EVERY single piece of legislation passed during the Bush-era.

    I do not, however, blame him for what the puppeteers are doing in his name. Why? Because I know he is NOT in charge and is making NO decisions. In other words I know this black man is NOT giving orders to the most powerful whites and Jews in this nation —

    and I believe most black people know this to be true but do not want to think about it or believe it because it spoils the fantasy that white people created for us.

    We did not raise or educate or finance or nominate or elect him. It is time to think seriously about what that really means and let go of the fantasy that he will one day “discover his blackness” and do something for black people.

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  33. @ mstoogood4yall

    We forget or ignore that President Obama was raised by white people, in particular by white females and that a child is usually LOYAL to his mother’s side.

    And that to my knowledge had not spent much time (if any) around black people growing up or as a young adult.

    He did not descend from slave stock, like most blacks in America, which might explain why he appeared so unmoved during a visit to Ghana to visit the place where Africans were held before being transported to America.

    when he came to Chicago he was IMMEDIATELY taken under the wing of the corrupt Mayor Daley (Irish) and Cook County machine (one of the most racist administrations in the nation) to get his political “wings”

    A mayor and administration that historically has horribly victimized black people for decades

    we underestimated all the above instead of asking:

    when and where in the world would President Barack Obama become “black identified?”

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  34. Miss Pam

    I urged my readers NOT to vote, AT ALL, for it is rigged and utterly useless. I told them why the voting process in this country and ALL “democratic” countries are useless…and black people blew up at me, cursed me out and told me that I was “racist, ignorant” and how “we’ll disagree often due to my limited views on life.”

    If there’s one thing that I’ve learned about blacks, Miss Pam, is this:
    They will only, maybe, perhaps, see the truth when they are being lead into the gas chamber.

    Some of us are not willing or able to wake up from this illusion. That’s why I slowed down on my posting here. I’d get attacked by my own kind. Whites will come after me like a rabid dog…that’s what they do as they have no soul. But my own kind has been lead to believe in the myth of “equality for all”, which will never come in a system of white terrorism. They do not wish to hear anything about truth. It will only make them angry…at YOU. Make no mistake about it: Racism is the white man’s religion and money is his God. There is no other explanation.

    As for Obama…

    He was indeed chosen to carry out the Khazars Evil plan of the destruction of melanin. Having a black face in the white house was the ultimate chess move and we fell for it hook, line and sinker. All those of us that are awake need to do now is learn, study and try to prepare for what’s coming.

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  35. @ V-4

    it is imperative that we understand that President Obama is NOT playing Poker with the most powerful white people who selected or financed him (HIRED him).

    Just like your BOSSES at your job do not have negotiate with you to do the job you were HIRED to do.

    we must let go of this escapist fantasy that President Obama is telling white people what to do.

    Yet we persist in believing this — despite all our life experiences regarding how the real world works and how whit.e people function with black people because some of us want to believe so badly..

    something that is not true

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  36. Not going to lie…if the Republicans can get Marco Rubio in office in a few years…its going to be really awkward for black people. Marco Rubio may be a republican token…but I will be shocked if he doesn’t do anything for his Latinos. When and if a Latino becomes president, “gay will not be the new brown”, La Raza will not be the association of the “brown and black ” and there will be no shortage of people in the cabinet with vowels at the end of their names…period. Most ethnic groups do for their own unabashedly, don’t let the naysayers (i.e. white people) confuse you.

    What is a black parent supposed to say to their child when they ask about the 1st black president, after Obama’s term? That he told black people to stop acting like lil wayne, as the unemployment rate for black people with undegraduate and graduate degrees is twice that of whites? He believes he has transcended race, and we see that in the way he is leading the country. He wants to be a whitewashed Martin Luther King.

    Obama wants the glory of being the first black president, but he doesn’t want the burden, and to a certain extent, the label. I know some will be offended, but this is possibly where we see the disconnect between the upbringing between of a person born of African-American parents and Obama. Let’s be honest. Obama believes or atleast feels comfortable promulgating that black people are “in the state they are in” because they are lazy. .

    I don’t believe that black people in higher positions are obligated to help black people in lower positions, but as the president of the United States we cannot allow him to ignore the black community–especially in his second term. He comes out in favor of people who commit the CRIME of illegal entry into the country, he is a supporter of Israel, he is a supporter of gay rights, he is a supporter of random pro-choice- “don’t slut shame me!”-white women, but he is silent on black issues. Honestly, at this point its kind of embarrassing.

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  37. @ truthbetold

    I don’t post as much as I used to because I realized the futility of trying to convince people against their will

    Not because I’m right or wrong but because of the blatant refusal to follow the logic and only believing what makes us feel good instead of striving to BE good.

    You’re right, most will not believe the truth right in front of them until it is too late.

    Have to give them credit, however.

    The whites who created the Obama presidency are master chess players and strategists but sadly most of us don’t even know the game board exists.

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  38. @ kay

    He is doing and saying what he was hired to do and say. That means reinforcing the covert attitudes toward black people within a racist society– and who can better justify racism against blacks but a black person?

    do we not know that he has boycotted (told to) every UN conference on racism since his election?

    do we not know that President Obama has not addressed the murders of black children in Chicago less than a mile from his Hyde Park home even BEFORE he was elected?

    or that more black children have been shot and/or killed in Chicago than soldiers in Iraq?

    or that when questioned by black organizations he has told them to “stop complaining” or “if i fix the economy all “minorities” will benefit?”

    or that he has NEVER held a town hall meeting in a black area?

    or that he once said “I am not the president of black America, I’m the president of the United States”

    but has never said to Hispanics or Jews or whites when they voice their concerns or make demands

    “I am not the president of white, or Hispanic, or Jewish America.”

    because he wouldn’t dare (or be told) to be that disrespectul to another “ethnic” group.

    I do not understand how some blacks can ignore that FACT that this administration has addressed EVERY community but the black one, and make excuses that “Well, he’s everybody’s president.”

    Are we so low-self-esteemed and so determined to justify our support that we would say out loud that we are not part of that “everybody?”

    How in the world did we turn a politician funded by a MAJOR political party into our hero, savior, and saint?

    I am completely flabbergasted by this level of denial

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  39. Bottom line. In my opinion he really is a rented negro. I don’t even consider him a politician of sorts because in this day and age, the top percentage of wealthy people have more power than any politician including the President. They are ruling this nation, not the government.

    Obama is just a puppet to help create the illusion that race is no longer a major factor. “If he can be President, anyone can. So, black people have no “excuse” not to do better.” It’s just a way of erasing the obvious truth that racial oppression and class division still exists while the big wigs continue to run the world through their greed.

    But let’s not assume that Obama is the first. It’s been this way for some time. Obama’s just the present heir to the paper throne.

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  40. We are not going to have a black president for a long time after Obama. And if we will have a black president born of two native African-American parents, frankly, it will probably be a female…I won’t expand on this…Whether Obama does or does not do anything of substance to implement policies that specifically aid black people, people will use his presidency alone to take down the little progress that has been made in the past few decades.

    The funny thing is that if Obama lost the election, CNN, MSNBC and FOX would have been “untypically” united in talking about the failure of the of the “demoralized” (read lazy) black voters to turnout for the President. If Obama would have lost and there was the slightest decrease in African-American turnout, we would see the true colors of the rainbow coalition come out just like they came out in the bastion of liberality after Prop 8. But since he won, of course it was because of the Latinos. And now he is indebted to them..I don’t know.. I understand why the black community voted for him, completely, but we can’t just support a “rainbow coalition” that expects our votes but doesn’t support us.

    I think a lot of black women were persuaded to vote for Obama because of Michelle Obama and the family, and frankly, they have reason to (ethnic groups have voted for their own for years, and continue to vote for their own). There is no more visible woman representing the United States, than the 1st Lady. And black women are rarely put on pedestals within our societal context. Obama’s presence represented “social” progress, despite the fact that Obama does not want to bring more substantive economic progress. And frankly, sometimes the republicans and Mitt Romney were so explicitly racist that they seemed to want to “take us back” to the times we had to sit at the back of the bus. Obama was the best choice of the two options.

    If more black people registered as independent, I think we could have more leverage as a group. White liberals expect our votes and don’t support us. And white republicans don’t support us either, and like to believe and tell us that we “slaves of the democratic plantation” rather than respectfully earn our vote. Frankly, whites (conservative and liberal) view people of color, especially black people, as votes. You can see this in the way both groups selectively politicize racism or sometimes racialize politics. To the white liberal mind, black outrage after Trayvon Martin’s murder could be used for gun control. While cheap republicans like Joe Walsh found an opening to suggest gendered racism after Obama responded to the death of Hadiya Pendleton, and not black males. For the most part, none of these groups give a $hit about racism or the problems of black people. Fox new conservatives use geraldo and assorted black people to give the rubber stamp. MSNBC uses faces like Toure, nodding their annoying heads and smirking in agreement about the racism of the other side that they can imply but not call out….I cannot stand the Cycle lol…when I leave the house or turn off my TV, I turn from MSNBC so that there is no chance they can get my ratings at 3 pm.

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  41. @trojan pam

    I completely agree with you.. With the cabinet he is creating he is setting himself up for a Blind Side president. Throw in a few middle-aged Sandra Flukes and we have Freedom Writers…

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  42. @ Kay

    check out theblackcodefiles (just add dot-com) there is a post about the reason so many black females love Obama

    also I might add that Obama didn’t pick his cabinet, it was picked for him. Look at his inner circle, all made up of Fed Reserve, banksters and other sorts. Do we really believe Obama is telling Federal Reserve presidents and the most powerful bankers (who really run this nation) what to do?

    so far no one has addressed this question that I’ve raised again and again

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  43. @ Trojan Pam

    I could not agree more with your statements . The white backlash that black’s have felt for the last four years could , in a sense , be compared to what the south went through after the civil war ie. black people in politics , and we all know how well that went over … The advent of the Internet has exponentially increased the dissemination of information that black people can use. The System of White Supremacy is a reality that the “average” white could not acurately describe , but if you talk to black people , most of us can articulate some real understanding if its’ effect …. because we are at the business end of it .
    The ability to translate our personal understandings into a workable plan of action , only comes from the think tank , collaberation . Still , we can all plan until smoke comes out of our ears , and sans any resources and Capital we are impotent as agents of change . Even the Internet , this too can be taken away from us , black people don’t own a damn thing in America , and essentially , we can be legally separated from whites(and Asians) simply by PRICING us out .

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  44. @ solesearch

    what has President Obama done for black people? Just naming one thing would help me understand

    Also when has he ever addressed the poor? The only terms I hear are “the middle class” which is a code word for “whites”

    In fact, it was brought up that NEITHER he or Romney ever mentioned the word “poor” during their presidential campaign

    Just asking…

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  45. @Trojan Pam

    I disagree with the the comment about the middle class = white people, poor=black people. Honestly, I think that more of Obama’s/white liberals’ programs are aimed at poor black people…and frankly I think that is the problem. Republicans and Democrats believe that black people are on food stamps and are satisfied with being on food stamps, and the fact is that most of are not…lol.

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  46. All presidents, senators, congressmen are puppets to the big money baggers and winning high political office is a major team sport. Obama would have been a lunatic to depend on Black Americans to be strong players on his team or to risk anything for them.

    Look at the record. Black Americans don’t support the Black businesses that are in their neighborhood. That’s why there are hardly any. They don’t usually attend meetings or get involved in the schools where their own little children attend. They say the schools are racist but they don’t create their own schools. Black American men don’t mostly marry their own women. They don’t safeguard or help out their own women or children in most cases even though Black American women still stick by Black American men to an embarrassing extent.

    80% of Black American men are not in lives of their own children on a daily basis since almost 80% of Black American children grow up in single parent homes alone with their mothers. So, for Black Americans to think that Obama is going to risk it all to try to help Black Americans is a big fantasy. Black Americans need to show that they can be a strong group of solid support for themselves before any politician is going to take them seriously. Black people who don’t even have their own children’s backs are not going to have anybody else’s back.

    My dad said that the billions that went into the job creation programs that happened back in the 1970s mainly helped out whites and the Black Americans who had gone to college or were already headed for middle class, not the very poor.. He said there was a program called CETA which was the comprehensive education and training act. He and my mom got 3 of those good paying CETA jobs because they already had the education and the right work ethic. He said that no one hired a ghetto Black person if they could hire a Black person who already had good education, social skills and the right attitudes and strong work ethic.

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  47. Mistake. Dad says that CETA was the Comprehensive Employment Training Act.

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  48. I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say that THIS is the very way the repubs can come in and take the steam away from the dems. They could woo the black vote by calling for tougher racial dicrimination laws in employment. You know since our unemployment rate is twice the average something must be wrong. HHHMMMMM?They could tackle stop and search racial profiling by police. They could wage a war on the war on drugs. They could make the mighty white liberals look really BAD and become once again the party of Lincoln it was at the turn of the twentieth century. But that would take moral integrity righteous anger and guts. We all know they don’t care.Greedy , whitewashed bigots control this country. They always have. Look at how long it took to abolish slavery. Think about how long Jim Crow survived in the past and still survives today. In the south black employment is DISMAL…yeah in 2013. What are the repubs doing? Gurdgingly endorsing immigration laws so they can make a dent into that lagre Latino voting block. Ignoring everything and everyone else. And the Dems are still sucking up our votes without working for them. They are coasting as if they deserve it…..and THEY DON’T. Blacks are a political force to be reckoned with. It seems we have become too poor, too disillusioned and too physically ill to weild the power.

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  49. @Jorbia

    I see where you are coming from..completely. But not every black person who is struggling in this economy is “ghetto”. Not every black person who is suffering from the racial wage gap lacks a “good education, social skills and the right attitudes and strong work ethic”. Even the black people with postgraduate degrees have 2 times the unemployment of white people, and I doubt its because they are lazy.

    I agree with you on the point about black businesses..so much..Frankly, I rather Obama do something that can promote black businesses rather than throw more money at Head Start (aka free babysitting) or some other entitlement programs. Some of these “community programs” end up messing up these kids even more. Community programs cannot raise your kids, and when the mentors in these programs come from that same damage community and mentality, what can really be done?

    Obama believes that the black community consist of only the poor, and his policies reflect that. I think that investing in the black middle class rather than throwing money at the black poor can give us more gains. Call me a classist, but its true. I’m not going to pretend to be satisfied when living and breathing stereotypes who bring our community down the most are given the most support. Yes I went there….lol. Politicians have been giving foodstamps to the poorest blacks for generations, and they are satisfied. Politicians have been helping middle-class white families build generational wealth, and they demand more. Why are we afraid to demand more?

    To a certain extent black people do need to separate themselves. The lack of separation in our community has allowed people to conclude that we are a monolith. Middle and upper class blacks living in poor black neighborhoods and sending their kids to all black and poor schools may bring superficial racial unity, but it won’t bring progress. Trust me, white people will do for their own and do have racial unity; but middle and upper class ones will not send their daughter to school near a trailer park to congregate with a young Eminem and company unless its a feeder school for a competitive high school. Middle class black people need to stop building lives in bad areas and sending their daughters and sons to all black and underfunded schools where kids and parents don’t give a …. If you send Whitney to an underfunded black high school for the “black experience” don’t be surprised when Whitney has a kid by DaQuan and becomes a living statistic… When young Jerimiah is starting to sag his pants..please don’t chalk up to creativity and black culture….to a stop. In our community you will see a lot of inter-class relationships with blurred gender lines. Too many Black women think that black skin is a qualifier for a date, and a lot of black men think they don’t have to work but be worked for.

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  50. @Kay
    Good points.

    Abagond, this is a very well written article. I respect President Obama but as a young Black woman of 17 years old, I have expressed and experienced frustration about President Obama not doing anything for Blacks. Aren’t we not important to him?
    I don’t expect Obama to be superman but I do believe that he could have done more to help out Blacks and Americans at large.
    It would be nice if an adult could give me more insight on this subject though.

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  51. Kay– so many white Americans will support businesses set up by others like them. They employ a lot of each other. Black Americans won’t. I don’t know what Obama can do about that unless he uses artificial incentives and they don’t work after a while. So, I’m not sure what you mean when you say he should invest in the Black middle class. What specifically?

    To a certain extent black people do need to separate themselves. The lack of separation in our community has allowed people to conclude that we are a monolith.

    I’ve noticed this too about Black Americans. Other places are not like this. Classes exist in other groups like you said but Black Americans don’t talk about their different classes. They’re not honest about that.. Until Black Americans are honest about certain realities that all people deal with, they’re going to be stagnant.

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  52. I think it’s unfair to make our political leaders our scapegoats. If anything, the political leaders are a reflection of the will of the people.

    The black community has been dealing with serious problems long before now. What are we doing about it?

    To have a legion of problems and then expect ONE PERSON to solve them all is unrealistic.

    Black youth need to stay in school, get good grades, stay out of trouble, get an education, do everything in their power – Dr. Ben Carson is a good example.

    Black leaders need to be one of the first to look out for the black community like the 1950s and 1960s. Also the black community needs to stop marginalizing the Church because God has blessed America.

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  53. on Sat 16 Feb 2013 at 03:43:52 Rhaegar Targaryen

    He is a Rented Negro, Abs. You will not be proven wrong.

    I’ve been saying this since late 2007. And–I’ve been saying the exact same thing that you said in your post:

    Close your eyes and he is a white liberal.

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  54. Really? It took you this long to figure it out.

    I figured he was full of crap when he said, “this is the moment when the rise of the oceans will start to slow and the planet begins to heal”

    Anyone who would say that is either a liar or stupid

    If black people are going to be saved, it’s going to have to be done by their own hand. If you want to be saved it starts with self reliance and rugged individualism.

    Officially stepping down from my libertarian soap box

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  55. @ Kay

    I respectfully maintain that “middle-class” is a code word for “whites” just like “urban” is a code word for blacks. It’s the same racial dynamic when people talk about “welfare” and “the poor.”

    Yes, there are poor white people and yes, there are blacks who qualify income-wise as middle class

    but when politicos and the media talk about welfare or the poor, they are almost always saying “black”

    accuracy has little to do with racial politics

    and in reality — as many blacks have discovered over the last four years — that it is a short fall from middle class to poor for those of us who think we are NOT in the same boat as “ghetto’ blacks

    and sadly, this painful lesson will be brought home to more and more of us

    if we don’t overcome (and stop imitating) class distinctions. White people can afford to get stuck on “class”

    being black will always carry more weight than class in a white supremacy society

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  56. @ wakeup

    Acknowledging that the Obama administration does not address black people or any black issues is a FACT, it is not scapegoating.

    It is the DUTY of an elected official to address the needs of their constituents. Black people gave aw ay(and I mean that literally) 93% of our votes and we shouldn’t expect any support in return other than

    “just be black, bro?”

    Is that the thinking of a sane, rational people?

    to put our support for a politician above our children’s welfare and future?

    just to experience the thrill of a “first black” presidency?

    Politicians owe us for voting for them NOT we owe them for being elected, yet some blacks bristle at the mere mention of holding President Obama the least bit accountable.

    I do not, however, because I recognize that he is a powerless puppet and a tool of the most powerful white people, the same as the last six previous presidents were.

    We are in the grips of an oligarchy(rule by the rich) where corporate america and the super-rich write the laws (like Obamacare was written by the health care industry) AND they (s)elect the presidents.

    The strange thing is plenty of black people understand that Bush, Jr. was a puppet and laughed at poor whites for voting against their self-interest

    YET

    all that political savvy disappeared once President Obama was elected

    again I ask the same two questions

    #1 — when in the history of blacks in America has a black person — any black person — given orders to powerful whites and Jews?

    #2 — name one thing the Obama administration has done to address a single black issue? (and please don’t say he is everybody’s president because blacks are part of that “somebody)

    why are those two questions being so easily overlooked?

    No disrespect, but I think the reason is obvious…

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  57. I apologize for taking up so much time on this thread but I’d like to leave on last thought with all of you.

    If you want to truly understand WHO is controlling President Obama and what he will be used to do in the final analysis.

    check out this link

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article33963.htm

    I double-checked the source and this story appears to be authentic

    http://www.dailysquib.co.uk/index.php?news=3089

    Keep in mind that the person this article is about allegedly gave President Obama his first job out of college

    peace and good nite

    (those who do not learn from their history are doomed to repeat it)

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  58. @ All

    I apologize for taking up so much time on this thread but I’d like to leave one last thought with all of you.

    If you want to truly understand WHO is controlling President Obama and what he will be used to do in the final analysis.

    check out this link

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article33963.htm

    I double-checked the source (another link in this article) and this story appears to be authentic

    Keep in mind that the person this article is about allegedly gave President Obama his first job out of college

    peace and good nite

    (those who do not learn from their history are doomed to repeat it)

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  59. Obama shows that politics is not an option to raising the socio-economic position of black people, as a whole, in America. If a president of African descent isn’t gonna try to do anything, don’t bet any white politician will.

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  60. Btw Obama didn’t run on a pro-black platform, so his black rights voters can’t claim to be betrayed by him

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  61. To Trojan Pam:

    check out this link

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article33963.htm

    I double-checked the source (another link in this article) and this story appears to be authentic…

    Ummmm…..as authentic as The Onion… This article was originally published in the Daily Squib, a British publication that is the UK equivalent of The Onion. Even in the link you provided in the upper left hand corner in bold it says “Satire”.

    http://www.dailysquib.co.uk/

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  62. I don’t think if it will help Obama to help black people if he followed a black agenda as he needs to retain the support from the white liberal political base. He has to use an event like Newtown to help promote the actions that could help benefit black people also by rallying white liberal support.
    So, just because he appears to take actions to retain the support of the political base does not confirm that he is a “rented Negro” per se or that he lacks courage. It could be a political strategy in itself. We may need both the Booker T’s and the W.E. Dubois’s to effect change.

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  63. This “rented negro” rhetoric is very primitive and obscuring to properly understanding or discussing politics. “Rented negro” is something your old ignorant black uncle who worked 10 hour days ever since he was 15 says. You forgive him when he talks that way because that’s his level; it’s all he knows. When a Columbia educated, computer programmer steeped in Greek philosophy says it, it is very strange indeed.

    This term “rented negro” is not something to be taken too seriously if you’re educated and literate. The term is a little backwoods and country. I can see some are pointing out the obvious that anyone who works in certain strata of society will simply be an agent of the elite class, but I also see the thread keeping to an ignorant uncle level too. Those of you who are fans of Orwell may want to consider whether the title of this thread is constraining the discussion that might take place. If you conclude that it is, then you might want to break from that constraint. These matters are important: language shapes thought. “Rented negro” is not a serious inquiry into the role of the office of president. I can tell some of you get that it’s not a serious term, but it seems others of you think it is serious useful rhetoric, which it is not, it is a sidelight.

    There is an implicit assumption, in the serious use of the term “rented negro”, as applied to Obama, that assumes Obama was supposed to do something for black people. This assumption just stems from naiveté and ignorance. To continue to accept the assumption is to remain deluded. Plato’s allegory of the cave is something to take very seriously. See the larger context and see things for what they are!

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  64. Ummmmm Obama never claimed to be a liberal. What he claimed to be is Blue Dog Democrat or a moderate Republican. He is appealing to his some of his base and not all of it; hence this post. The gays? check….the “middle class”? check….then immigrants? check. Blacks ? Noooooooo! You see, those groups have garnered political sympathy. There has been antipathy towards Blacks for the last 400 yrs. and especially the last 40 yrs. What African mericans need is a powerful super P.A.C. Remember, Blacks could be a member of the very groups mentioned The man is doing his job. In this enviornment, he is doing an excellent job. But if he is going to make things more positive for his daughters, black females, he will have to at least try to dismantle the systems that will shape the future theywill live in.Blacks need to become more cohesive and politically savy.

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  65. I hope people don’t have their hopes up with Marco Rubio. He’s not getting the presidency.
    Latinos may have moved ahead of blacks in population but that isn’t enough to elect him. You still need the white vote. They won’t be voting for him….Neither will most blacks. Being that he’s a Republican.

    The next POTUS will be a white man.

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  66. @Abagond,
    “Obama is limited by Congress, but he does not let that stop him from taking a stand on gay rights, becoming the first president to support same-sex marriage, the first to allow gays to serve openly in the military.”

    Gay rights? Obama and the Democratic Party only address gay rights (note the lack of acknowledgement of people who are lesbian, bisexual, or transgendered for a few examples) when it comes to maintaining this heteronormative society. Marriage is a social construct originally created to determine who inhereits property. Same-sex marriage does not challenge the hiearchial relationship involved in marriage. The focus on marriage rights by the mainstream gay rights movement ignores people who are LGBT who do not want (or can’t) get married. Apparently, it’s okay for LG people (because no one acknowledges those who aren’t LG) to die in the military and fit into a heteronormative society but anything beyond that? Not gonna happen if the Democratic Party (and Republican Party) is involved.

    Also, I get tired of the implication that Obama values gay people more than black people. As a person who is black and queer, I feel that Obama and all politicians do not have my interests at heart. Unless if people assimilate and take on ‘middle-class’ values, these politicians won’t do a damn thing for pepole ike me. I don’t expect them to as an anarchist. Their real job is to keep this system running. They’ll tolerate gays and lesbians who ‘fit in’, but anything beyond that? Not seeing it…

    To be fair, it doesn’t help that the mainstream gay rights organizations like Human Rights Council refuse to even deal with issues that do not affect white, middle-class, gays and lesbians. Since these organizations are oftentimes the ones who get the most attention (corporate support certainly helps), it gives off the impression that people who are gay or lesbian are only white and middle-class.

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  67. Great Post, Abagond!!

    @ Pam, Thanks for the link.

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  68. Obama is a Is Rented Negro!! Yes,indeed he is.

    If he steps his A** out of line, he’ll get what “JFK” got. that all i’ma say!

    these people gotta do thier job at keeping us bling to what there diong to us ha-ha! not all of us are dead to whats really goin on we(blacks folks) see everything. not even Rented Obama! is going to work this time around.

    white elite( the Edomites) we’re on to you your new rented negro(RN) wont do the trick from here on out.

    also everybody stude the Edomites and see who they really are.

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  69. “Obama believes that the black community consist of only the poor, and his policies reflect that.”
    That’s why he married his poor wife, right ?

    Obama has tried to implement health care, that helps everyone. And when you have some knowledge of what health care costs in this country compared to MOST places around the world (10 times more than in France for instance, TEN TIMES, at least, for each visit or lab, or whatever), you KNOW that can only help people by relieving some the stress coming with having to either not getting cared for or having such huge bills that you have to borrow the money. (As a French person I never ever had to worry about that)

    Health care changing everything in people’s lives and opens doors for a lot of opportunities.

    If only one thing, that is what Obama has tried to implement. Most of the substance of what the Right likes to call “Obamacare” had been removed for the project, simply because the right thinks (and is right in many ways) that “Obamacare” will help “blacks”… So, he may not look like he’s doing things, but he is doing them. AND, if he did look like he is doing them, he would be dead by now.

    But that I feel, paradoxically, a lot of African-Americans don’t seem to get.

    And like everyone else, Obama is not perfect and as a politician, he is pressured from all sides. As a “black” politician, even more. As a “black” president of the US, I can’t even imagine the pressure.

    So, sometimes I think a little humility (as in, “what would I do in his place”) and a little reality check is necessary.

    A LOT of people around the world wish they had such a bright president. They would do whatever necessary to help him. Obama has CONSTANTLY been saying, asking, pleading for HELP. If you are waiting for “leaders” to do the job (a very American thing: “leaders”), you have given up on democracy. The PEOPLE must stand up and act. Politicians watch what the people does, because that’s who gives them a job.

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  70. Very nicely put , Thank you.

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  71. People seem to think that change comes from only the top, but it comes from the bottom, too. When Obama was elected, I expected nothing to change. After all, Congress is still white, the Supreme Court is still white, and the rest of the White House is still white. Assuming all changes come from one president is assuming that America is a dictatorship. So it’s more useful to ask how much of the entire government is white dominated or rented. I’d say about 90%. Looking at Congress is a good start.

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  72. I would be surprised if a Latino President were anymore pro-latino’s than Obama is pro-black……

    Mainly because don’t Mestiqo’s have a tendency of voting republican once they get situated in an area for the most part?

    That and they seem to view themselves as white and have a less concrete idea of race.

    Most Mestiqo’s aren’t even aware of how unrepresented on TV they really are, I suspect because they identify as white so it doesn’t accur to them that “they” aren’t really on TV.

    Also it was mentioned that obama doesn’t have any slave blood; thats not true, he does…..from his Mom’s side of the family.

    Back in the day when her white ancestors were indentured servants, One of them married her ancesotr that was a black slave, Back then in the 1600s there was less seperation between Indentured servants and slaves, they lived together, played together etc….

    So Obama does have slave blood in him.

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  73. Abagond,

    This question is a tough one

    Because if you go with your definition of Rented Negro from your previous post:

    “Abagond @ A Rented Negro is a black person who is paid or otherwise helped by whites for putting a black face on white opinion and power. An Uncle Tom with stock options.”

    Almost any one of us (black/brown people) who are university educated, corporate employed, seeking to go upwards in Management have been or will have to be that definition of a “Rented Negros” at some point in our working lives/career, in order to go up the corporate ladder…

    because in order to get ahead, we have to be that corporate cheerleader –representatives and players in the corporate system, go along with the companies agenda and internal corporate culture, can’t show favoritism to our black/brown staff workers, can’t openly challenge any projected rules that will adversely affect our minority staff, – basically “talk the talk and walk the walk”…if you don’t, then you are out!

    where I work, everyone got excited when we got a black CEO – don’t know why because I knew nothing would change (In the managers meetings, he sounded like a tanned version of his white predecessor) – he had a Board to answer to – its about money.

    In order to get ahead in the US, you have to learn to play by the rules already set up by white power structure….Obama knows what side his bread is buttered and if he wants to continue to enjoy being the American spokesperson for his white, corporate backers, he needs to walk a very fine line between what he Needs to say and what he Really wants to say.

    Now, to me, a Real rented Negro is someone who Truly believes what they are saying and they Totally buy into the system and believe the white power structure truly has their best interest at heart – like Michelle Malkin.

    I tried explaining what a “Rented Negro” was to a white Cuban colleague – he didn’t seem to get it, so I played him a youtube video of Michelle Malkin – which was like a big “Ah Ha” moment because he finally understood what I was talking about – listening to her made the term “Rented Negro” become crystal clear.

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  74. Rented Negro as opposed to what, militant black nationalist? Obama is a clever politician steeped in the American tradition of taking the black vote for granted, it worked for Woodrow Wilson 100 years ago and almost all American politician who depended on the black vote, his racial background is irrelevant. Obama is not a puppet, to get the people who backed him to spend over a billion dollars to elect him he had to show he could do what was needed. Black voters got what they wanted, a black face in a high place and a pretty black family in the White House. Obama didn’t promise the Black electorate anything except that he could win with their vote. Anybody unhappy with the result should come up with a program to curb the banksters and help undo the devastation of places like Detroit and other bankrupt cities. These problems are not black problems, they affect everybody and will be solved not solely by blacks.

    Like


  75. A repost from Appeal to Melanin (1/2)

    @Delwin

    Re: Obama listed as a rented negro and your resentment of this.

    American Presidents are people who graduate through a vetting process by the two major “political parties” in the US, namely the Republicans and the Democrats. These two parties are in fact two wings of one party a de facto business party. These two factions of business power and business interests are funded by concentrations of private economic and financial power. These “concentrations” of private power are individual corporations and corporate industry sectors.

    These principle funders (corporations and corporate sectors) of the parties are paying to get a President who will advance corporate interests, despite whatever harm the advancing interests may, bring to the public.

    Given the above described situation, every US president is really an agent of business interests, though pretending to represent the public. It is fair to refer to the two large political parties as mere “candidate producing organizations.” It is totally reasonable and accurate to speak of US presidents as rented.

    Observe the following data, public data, on corporate contributions to the Republican and Democratic election campaigns in the recent US Presidential election:

    http://www.opensecrets.org/pres12/sectorall.php?cycle=2012

    The corporate purchase from government to provide a climate ultra favourable to business is just glaringly obvious from the data, if a person has their senses about them.

    It is instructive to observe that although corporate industry funded both campaigns (as they always do) most corporate sectors gave more money to Romney/Ryan than Obama/Biden. Probably because Romney/Ryan were going to be more zealous about creating as much bounty for the corporate sector and the rich as possible and smashing up civil society a little more than Obama. If we exclude the category “other” at the bottom of the graph, then we only see two corporate sectors (lawyers & lobbyists and communications/electronics) that contributed more to Obama/Biden than the republican ticket. The corporate sector’s interests are sharply opposed to the interests of the general public.

    The term “rented negro” can sometimes be an undue focus on race. It’s not the sort of term I myself like to use too much. In the case of US presidents they are rented whether they are black or white because that’s just the function of a president, to be an agent for corporations and ideological currents that strengthen and advance corporate control and power.

    It’s allowable, i guess, to speak of a “rented negro” (or “puppet” to be more concise) if the puppet in question is being used to deceive brown people with the useful feature that the puppet is brown them self. A person would have to be near hopelessly deluded to not realize that Democratic party leaders didn’t recognize the utility of getting a black candidate through the party vetting process of candidature for Presidential office. The democrats did achieve this feet when Obama made it through the vetting process; the utility for the Democratic party is that they could use this fact to seduce the electorate, particularly minorities and some other groups like students, in to supporting yet another rented agent of corporate interests.

    I don’t care if Juan Williams, Malkin, et. al. are referred to as “rented negroes” because it’s more or less accurate and they are just media chippies. To call Obama a rented negro, is also technically accurate, i guess, but it sort of trivializes the power of his position. Obama has more weight in society than the talking heads on t.v. In Obama’s case it’s crucial to recognize he’s just as rented as W. Bush, Clinton, Bush elder, Reagan, Carter, etc., which means, US elections are a sham, that’s the crucial thing to recognize and find a solution to.

    Given the above it cannot be denied that Obama is rented. Those who resent such an obvious truth, need to examine their perspective. Why can they not see the obvious?

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  76. A re-post from Appeal to Melanin (2/2)

    @ All

    “I deeply resent the inclusion of President Obama on a list of, “rented negroes”. History will show that he was one of the greatest presidents ever. He understands that one should not allow lack of perfection to trump achieveable [sic] progress.”

    To illustrate the absurdity of that statement let’s look at a close parallel:

    I deeply resent the inclusion of Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas on a list of, “rented negroes”. History will show that he was one of the greatest Justices ever. He understands that one should not allow lack of perfection (in Thomas’ case, [plausible] allegations of sexual harassment) to trump achievable progress.

    What I think the parallel example shows is that Delwin’s claim of Obama’s greatness is not well reasoned, in short, is not rational. One thing is clear from both statements (Delwin’s original and then my parallel version) both the men in question simply demonstrated the trait known as ambition. So what? Lots of people are ambitious. Corrupt people and honest people can be ambitious. We do not conclude that Thomas is a great Justice because he managed to achieve Senate confirmation despite serious allegations against him, we look at his record, we look at his tactics too. We don’t conclude that Obama is a great President because he made it through his party’s selection/vetting process and then was offered up to a seduced and naive electorate in a society that is well known to have an alarming democratic deficit. Also, recall that in 08′ a Martian with three heads would have won against The Republicans because of the disaster of the W. Bush administration.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_deficit

    ———————————————–

    *Re: plausibility

    see the forth paragraph of the section entitled “Clarence Thomas Controversy” in the Anita Hill Wikipedia article. Hill agreed to take and passed a polygraph test which backed her claims of sexual harassment against Thomas. Thomas refused to take a polygraph test and relied on a tactic of inducing guilt in the Senators at his confirmation hearings, that he was being put through a form of “high tech lynching” ––quite crafty!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anita_hill#Clarence_Thomas_controversy
    ———————————————-

    Last point: I shouldn’t have to say the following but I know someone will attempt to be cheap, so I will say what I shouldn’t have to say:

    I am not likening Obama to being a sexual harasser, I am pointing out that it is ridiculous to say he is a great president because he managed to become president despite the “inexperience” claims promoted by opponents of his. If one believes Obama is a great president solely because he met his goal of actually becoming president then one must also conclude that Clarence Thomas is a great Justice because he met his goal of actually becoming a Justice despite strong (and justified?) opposition against him.

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  77. StilettoTreeHugger’s first post here destroyed abagond’s blog entry and most of the comments. It is obvious.

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  78. Umar Johnson is on point when he talks about Obama at about the 11 minute mark.He was chosen.(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v66JsZDnBAM)

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  79. @Trojan Pam–

    I believe most black people know this to be true but do not want to think about it or believe it because it spoils the fantasy that white people created for us.

    You are correct, and many of us who believe in high achievement already know it, have known it since childhood. I don’t know which group of Black Americans you’re referring to here as believing in a fantasy. There are no saviors for Black Americans. They need to use the opportunities in this society to build themselves up. A lot of Black Americans are not even doing basic things right.

    I don’t know why so many Black Americans think they’re a priority to any politician or any other prominent Black person. Sorry to spoil any fantasy, but Black Americans are not a scarce commodity. We don’t provide anything to this country that other groups don’t or can’t provide better..

    if we don’t overcome (and stop imitating) class distinctions. White people can afford to get stuck on “class”

    There are classes of people in any ethnic group or race because class is primarily a matter of values.Not necessarily money. The choices I make show that my values are different from a Black American woman’s who is a product of generations of ghetto life. There are striking differences between my values and hers. We are of different classes. I agree with the commenter above who said we need to separate because ghetto people don’t see anything wrong with their values and don’t want to change.If they wanted to change, there are plenty of people who would teach them. I see a lot wrong with their values. They see a lot wrong with my values too. This means that if we tried to associate with each other or live around each other, there would be lots of friction.

    being black will always carry more weight than class in a white supremacy society

    This is such a tragic way for any Black American to think. This is the old argument that there’s no point in a Black Americans getting higher education or achieving because Whites will still see you as a n——–. Maybe this is why some Black Americans try to act like n——–s.

    Some of you have a warped view of yourselves. Has it ever occurred to some of you that the biggest part of you exists outside of the way Whites see you? I can see myself distinctly outside of the way Whites or anyone else may see me, so despite any amount of power that Whites may use against me, I have the greatest sovereignty over myself, much greater than any other person.

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  80. I knew obama was a rented negro when he didn’t say anything when that police officer joked about killing the first lady.I don’t know any black man who would stand by and let their wives get disrespected like that unless they are rented negroes.Just like i never see any black men who allow their mother to be disrespected only the rented ones.If he can’t stand up for his wife their if no way he will stand up for the black community.

    white men allow their mother to be disrespected heck look at eminem he makes songs about killin his mom.White men allow their wives to sleep with other men. a black man would never allow any of those things , because those are the things that happened during slavery.like the previous commenters said obama does not have this slavery past like we do,so he wouldn’t know what its like.

    .

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  81. @Jorbia

    Yes, the gap is widening between low income blacks and middle income blacks. But the middle income blacks need to remember “to whom much is given much is required”.

    What does it look like? More good teachers in the lower income neighborhoods, Church outreaches to the community, mentoring teenagers so they don’t make the mistakes you refer to.

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  82. @TrojanPam I agree with all your posts. Your analysis of Obama is 100% on point! Sometimes when you break it down it can be hard to hear. But if we want to heal we have to deal with the harsh reality. No matter how painful it might be. I know you will always bring the unfiltered truth. That’s what I love about you. Keep it up sis. :)

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  83. @Jorbia

    I’ll address your points as quickly as possible:

    First, it is NOT about being a “priority” to a politician, it’s about having expectations that when you vote for a candidate, you should get something in return.

    I do not understand the cavalier dismissal of some Obama supporters who think it is unreasonable that black people expect to be included on the Obama agenda.

    Why then would any black person EVER vote for a politician (including President Obama) if we don’t expect to benefit? What sense does that make? And what are we teaching our children about self-respecting behavior?

    When I refer to “fantasy world” I mean those blacks who ignore the FACT that COLOR always triumphs CLASS when the evidence is overwhelming that even the POOREST white man gets more respect than the MOST educated black man.

    Just ask Harvard Professor Gates who was arrested and handcuffed in his own home.

    (With Abagond’s permission, I’d like to include this link that illustrates the difference between class and caste)
    Is the United States a “class” society or a “caste” society?
    http://theblackcodefiles.com/2012/10/11/definitions-workshop-4-a-guest-post-by-trojan-pam/

    Yes, it is commendable that some blacks have made educational and professional achievements but it is a FACT that regardless of education and experience and white spouses that the vast majority of blacks know they – if they are honest – are still treated differently than their white peers and still face unrelenting racism in the workplace

    What I have stressed throughout my posts is that black people tell ourselves the TRUTH and follow the LOGIC of know to be true instead of denying it.

    To think so-called “ghetto blacks” and “n**gers” created their own racist, educationally and economically deprived environments instead of holding the right white people accountable for the system of racism/white supremacy is the most virulent form of anti-blackness in black people who have forgotten about the poor black people who put their lives on the line, making it possible for ALL blacks of all stripes to walk into a hotel and reserve a room.

    Because when I look in the mirror, and see an educated “middle-class” black person, I know it only takes ONE JOB LOSS or a few or several missed paychecks to put my butt in the same category as those “ghetto” blacks you speak of

    And when I walk into a store dressed casually I’m JUST AS LIKELY to be followed around as one of those “ghetto blacks” you speak of

    And amount of education will help my college-educated nephews if they run into the wrong policeman at the wrong place and time

    And that is one of the major problems we face: this desire to buy into the white lie that a little (or a lot) of education, fancy duds, nice homes and cars (that we DON’T OWN) makes us better than a black person who is poor and less educated

    Some other poster spoke about the gap widening between poor and middle-class blacks when in REALITY it is just the opposite. The gap is getting smaller and smaller but some of us refuse to see what is happening to the so-called black middle-class which is shrinking on a DAILY basis

    via the thousands of “middle-class” blacks who can’t find a living-wage job?

    Who are being fired left and right from corporate America but can’t prove that racism was the real reason and the thousands of educated blacks who have lost their homes to foreclosure and job loss

    That is what I mean by living in a “fantasy world.”

    And if ANY black person thinks they can simply live inside their own skulls and ignore the way whites see us, just try that in front of a (white) job interviewer, or a (white) jury, or a (white) banker when you’re trying to get a JOB, a FAIR TRIAL, or a HOME LOAN

    it’s CRUCIAL to tell the truth about they way they see US and be honest about the system that controls every aspect of our black lives. That doesn’t mean you have to agree with it, but you darn sure better UNDERSTAND it.

    The REALITY is we are a totally dependent population that relies on whites and darn near everyone else to provide our food, water, electricity, transportation, jobs, education, and yes, even our entertainment and vices

    Once we TELL OURSELVES THE TRUTH then can we come up with self-respecting, constructive, and realistic solutions to the problems ALL blacks share living black in a white racist society.

    That being said, we can cordially agree to disagree.

    In any case, unless someone directly addresses me, I have taken up entirely too much time on Abagond’s blog.

    (Thanks, Abagond, for giving us much food for thought and allowing me a chance to express my opinions)

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  84. @ Kushite Prince

    All we can do is share information and share our viewpoints. The rest is up to the individual what he or she CHOOSES to believe.

    Hopefully more and more of us will prefer that which most closely resembles truth

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  85. @Wakeup–

    But the middle income blacks need to remember “to whom much is given much is required”.

    I don’t come from a wealthy background. Nothing was given to me. My parents came from poor people just like the people in the ghettos. I never said that my values were any better than those of people in the ghetto, but my values work for me.

    The assumption is always made that a person in the ghetto wants to live a middle class life. Do Whites who live in Appalachia want to live on the upper east side of Manhattan? Has anyone ever asked any of them what they want or do people just make assumptions about what would be best for them. That is patronizing.

    What does it look like? More good teachers in the lower income neighborhoods, Church outreaches to the community, mentoring teenagers so they don’t make the mistakes you refer to

    These strategies have not worked. Tons of literature proves that. So suppose Washington puts billions more dollars in the ghettos to finance these strategies and they don’t work, then what will Black Americans say. People from the ghetto need to come forth and say what they want instead of other people deciding for them what’s best.

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  86. @ Uncle Milton

    Always appreciate any fact-checking, but I did not see anything in the upper left hand corner that said “Satire” OR see that word anywhere on that page

    However, after some more checking, I cannot verify (or disprove) that the statements attributed to Kissinger were accurate

    but Kissinger did make a similar statement in 1979 when Zbigniew Brzezinski was Secretary of State for President Jimmy Carter. (these puppet presidents go back that far)

    Another thing that is accurate — in my opinion — is the scenario laid out in that piece. That Israel is poised to attack Iran, that the middle east is in the sights of the colonial/imperialistic big guns, and that the effects of this third world war will be felt in the United States and all around the world.

    It is also true that the present wars and the future wars will be resource wars where non-white populations will be slaughtered and their resources — especially in Africa — will be fought over and divided among the “victors”

    All under the banner of a “black” administration with a black face on it

    so even if Kissinger did not say it the rationales are still valid AND the reason I posted the link remains the same

    That black people need to recognize the signs of “Trojan Horses” appearing as a political gifts

    and we need understand the system that controls our lives AND the presidency

    instead of fighting and blaming each other because if we do not we will find it extremely difficult to survive or prosper AS black people on this planet.

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  87. @Trojan Pam

    I didn’t say he did anything for black people. I said for the poor.
    Obama’s signature legislation, the thing he’s spent the majority of presidency fighting for and defending, Obamacare, makes medicaid eligible to 17 million more people also parents can keep their kids on their insurance until age 26. Also, extended unemployment benefits.

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  88. @ Jorbia

    At the risk of getting into another futile and self-defeating black male/black female bashing session, let me say that black females ARE NOT THE CAUSE of black males being powerless in a white supremacy society.

    let’s be real about that

    If black males choose NOT to marry black females (even while PRODUCING offspring with us) that will speed up your OWN downfall as well because there is NO SUCH animal as a “black male community” or a “black female community”

    we are all in this together, brother, like it or not

    You need us and we need you and it makes no sense to keep blaming each other for our condition under the system of white supremacy

    anymore than it makes sense for PRISONERS in a prison camp to blame OTHER PRISONERS for being there instead of ALL the prisoners trying to figure out how to cooperate together to get out of that prison.

    I do not buy into any attempts by black males to “blackmail” into behaving correctly NOR should black males buy into any threats by black females to “leave” you

    because NEITHER ONE OF US is behaving correctly and our communities, families, children and lack of business/economic bases are EVIDENCE of that

    again, let’s be real

    we really have NOWHERE to go and are only tolerated by other communities that we will NEVER be a part of so we best learn how to cooperate and respect and appreciate each other and build our OWN strong black communities

    which means MOST of us would do better to focus on the man OR woman in that mirror

    For the record, brother, black females collectively have been YOUR biggest supporters — from the CRADLE to the GRAVE — and had it not been for your black mothers, grandmothers, aunts, sisters, lovers, friends, and wives, you would be a lot worse off than you are now

    and there are black females who have been supported and encouraged by our black fathers, brothers, grandfathers, uncles, friends, lovers and husbands.

    It would not benefit you (or me) to forget that most black people get the most help and support from other black people — but that FACT is often overlooked.

    Please, let’s get away from blaming and threatening each other. We are in too POWERLESS a position to get away with that.

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  89. @Jorbia and @All
    I agree with you, Joriba.The rest of you all have some very valid points as well. There is a huge income gap between us Blacks and Caucasians. It has been proven that even working class Whites have more money than middle class Blacks! Isn’t that crazy? Black babies are more likely to die from infact death syndrome than White babies.

    Read this article.
    http://www.progress.org/dividend/cdking.html
    It was about Martin Luther King’s goals on poverty that affects Blacks. Honestly as I read the article, I was thinking, nothing much has really changed from the 1960s. We are still lagging behind our White counterparts and we are still looked on as ”inferior” to the other races.

    Worst of all, we have to deal with others sterotyping us and thinking that all Blacks are ghetto, ignorant and uneducated when not all Blacks are ghetto or uneducated. We are people just like everyone else in society.

    I guess it is because the system made sure that Whites benefited from the racially biased system while Blacks lag behind them. It doesn’t seem fair but it is life.
    This is a well written post, Abagond.

    Yes, President Obama is a rented Negro. As well as Clarence Thomas, Herman Cain, Allen West, Alan Keyes however Clarence Thomas, Herman Cain, Allen West and Alan Keyes are OBIVIOUS rented Negros. President Obama is a rented a Negro, not in the sense of a ”Uncle Tom” like Herman Cain, who sides with his allies of racist, White Republicans over his own people, but in the sense that he is oblivious to the struggles that everyday Black people face and doesn’t speak up on issues facing Blacks. I don’t expect him to be superman but I did expect him to address issues that affected Blacks.

    President Obama is a Blackface on White opinions and ideas. No wonder he disowned his pastor, Reverend Jeremiah Wright. To me, that wasn’t right because I believe Reverend Jeremiah Wright is a very wise and honest man. He wanted to please the White media and audience and get elected that year.

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  90. @Jorbia

    “There are classes of people in any ethnic group or race because class is primarily a matter of values.Not necessarily money. The choices I make show that my values are different from a Black American woman’s who is a product of generations of ghetto life. There are striking differences between my values and hers. We are of different classes. ”

    Are you talking about economic class? Because that is definitely about money.

    The choices you make show that you have different choices available to you than a Black American woman who is a product of generation of ghetto life. Her immediate needs are very different than yours, so her values are different than yours.

    Environment is very important. The easiest way to change someone’s behavior is to change their environment. Anyone who has studied change and habit formation would tell you that.

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  91. @ solesearch

    Sorry to say, neither Obama NOR Romney even mentioned “poor” people during the presidential campaign

    what they both said over and over was “middle-class” — a CODE WORD for white people. (sorry that’s the truth)

    Regarding Obama-care (a name I dislike for the reasons below)

    the health care industry helped to write the “Obama care” bill and in fact Democratic candidates for president outpaced Republicans in donations from the health care industry.

    In my opinion that is proof that this health care bill is another “trojan horse” that will benefit the healthcare industry and big government more than individual Americans.

    Otherwise, why would the health care industry donate millions to pass it?

    Look at how the government defines “affordable”

    “…$4,316, for family coverage. Under the I.R.S. rule, such costs would be considered affordable for a family making $35,000 a year, even though the family would have to spend 12 percent of its income for full coverage under the employer’s plan.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/31/us/politics/irs-to-base-insurance-affordability-on-single-coverage.html?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20130131&_r=0

    I don’t see how $4316 is “affordable” for a family with a household income of $35,000 a year when that’s almost $400 a month out of pocket.

    And who gets that money?

    THE HEALTH CARE INDUSTRY

    Expect all premiums to go up under the guise of “…we have to raise premiums because Uncle Sam is ‘forcing’ us to ensure everybody…” when in reality it’s a dream come true for ANY industry

    a captive market who is FORCED to buy from you

    Also from what I understand, if you violate this law, the IRS will be the enforcer of collecting those ‘fines.’

    Of course President Obama will be blamed for all this economic pain if this scenario is correct, aka be the ‘black scapegoat’ in the minds of many white and black people.

    of course, my scenario might be incorrect. Only time will tell.

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  92. Ghetto blacks or whites, for anybody ghetto, the only way out is economic empowerment through hard work. Government programs and social welfare have a valid purpose but they can’t really affect any lasting change on a community. So what is needed is private investment in a manufacturing base. Unfortunately, the violence of the ghetto, real or perceived, keeps investors away. The banning of hand guns(like that will ever happen) would probably be the most significant economic change to blacks since desegregation.

    The next major wars are going to be proxy wars fought in Africa between China and the US. Either that or a major East Asian conflagration, which hopefully the West won’t be part of.

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  93. @Adeen

    “It has been proven that even working class Whites have more money than middle class Blacks! Isn’t that crazy?”

    Are you talking about income or net worth? If working class whites have more income than middle class blacks, then they aren’t working class. If we are talking about net worth, then I believe that is due to home ownership. The average person’s wealth comes from owning a home. White people benefitted from government programs during the middle of the 20th century that helped poorer whites afford homes.

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  94. @ Trojan Pam–

    we are all in this together, brother, like it or not

    I’m a woman. You’re making some great points, and no offense, but you’re stating the obvious. It’s all been said many times before. People already know what they need to do. They just don’t want to make the effort to do anything because they’re complacent. That’s my point. All of these points and strategies have been out here for a long time. Nothing has changed. I didn’t vote for Obama the 2nd time, so I don;t expect anything from him. I did vote for him the first time.

    I don’t know exactly what Black Americans want him to do. He has shown that it’s possible for a Black American to be president. That was enough for my Mom and Dad who never even dreamed that was possible for another hundred years. .

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  95. @Trojan Pam

    I don’t see the healthcare industry’s interest in expanding healthcare as strange or nefarious. Seems only logical that they would benefit from having more customers. Anything else would just make it unsustainable.

    Thanks for the link, I hadn’t heard about this. That is definitely unfortunate. At least, they won’t have to pay penalties for not providing insurance to their dependents. I wonder how many people this will affect.

    I agree that only time will tell if the Affordable Care Act will deliver upon its promise.

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  96. @ Jorbia

    I humbly and respectfully disagree. I don’t think it’s obvious because some posters on this thread disagree with the points I’ve made.

    I also don’t believe that people know what they need to do — neither the poor nor the educated successful people — because there is a lot of confusion and disagreement over what are the underlying causes of our problems.

    I personally believe that understanding the SYSTEM of racism/white supremacy is a NECESSITY before black people – regardless of title, education, or income — can overcome the effects of this system

    yet on this blog, almost no one (but myself) has mentioned this system that controls EVERY area of black human activity

    from education to economics to entertainment to law, labor, politics, religion, sex, and war

    all the above are UNDER the domain of white people and from what I’ve seen on this post, it’s mostly black people blaming other black people

    when in reality, even the so-called middle class/income blacks are barely hanging on by their fingernails and pointing the few they have left at poor blacks

    just the idea that in the midst of massive black unemployment, foreclosures, racism, police brutality, and poverty

    that the election of a black president is “enough”

    says that unfortunately you and I are not on the same page but may be able to agree on some issues and perhaps share some constructive ideas and information and learn from each other

    no disrespect intended (sincerely)

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  97. @Trojan Pam

    “I personally believe that understanding the SYSTEM of racism/white supremacy is a NECESSITY before black people – regardless of title, education, or income — can overcome the effects of this system

    yet on this blog, almost no one (but myself) has mentioned this system that controls EVERY area of black human activity”

    I’m sure plenty of people have mentioned. I know I have.

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  98. @ solesearch

    Always appreciate any correction

    could you give the post quote (and name) where white supremacy is mentioned in this thread?

    thanks!

    (by the way, I wasn’t boasting or saying that no one on this thread understood white supremacy, I just don’t remember reading any mention of it)

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  99. @ Legion

    I agree with your post, especially:

    “American Presidents are people who graduate through a vetting process by the two major “political parties” in the US, namely the Republicans and the Democrats. These two parties are in fact two wings of one party a de facto business party. These two factions of business power and business interests are funded by concentrations of private economic and financial power. These “concentrations” of private power are individual corporations and corporate industry sectors.”

    “Given the above described situation, every US president is really an agent of business interests, though pretending to represent the public. It is fair to refer to the two large political parties as mere “candidate producing organizations.” It is totally reasonable and accurate to speak of US presidents as rented.”

    “In Obama’s case it’s crucial to recognize he’s just as rented as W. Bush, Clinton, Bush elder, Reagan, Carter, etc., which means, US elections are a sham, that’s the crucial thing to recognize and find a solution to.”

    All the above are worth repeating in case anyone missed it

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  100. @Solesearch–

    Are you talking about economic class? Because that is definitely about money.

    No, I’m talking about values. Sometimes values and money intersect, but IMO, class is based on values, with or without money. This is why a middle class or rich person can still be called “ghetto.”

    There are always exceptions but ghetto people have outlandish behavior in public. They don’t value delaying gratification. That’s why they don;t save money for important things. When they see something, they want to get it NOW instead of controlling their impulses and waiting for 2 weeks for it to go on sale for 50% off. They don’t value education. That’s why they’ll spend $150 on sneakers instead of paying for a math tutor even when they know they’re failing math. They don’t have a strong work ethic. They want to do things any way they want and then argue if you say something to them. They value a different type of lifestyle than most middle class Blacks.

    Just being honest. Ghetto people like constant interaction, noise and constant happenings around them. If they don’t have that, they get bored. I don’t want to live around people who have to keep noise going on around them all the time. If you ask them to lower their voice, they have a problem with that, no matter how nicely you ask them. Ghetto people lack manners. They like to pick at people and say all kind of inappropriate things to them. If you try to ignore them, they have a problem with that too.

    The choices you make show that you have different choices available to you than a Black American woman who is a product of generation of ghetto life. Her immediate needs are very different than yours, so her values are different than yours.

    I’m sorry but you’re making excuses for her. If I can wait for 2 weeks to buy boots for 50% less, she can too. If I can stay at home on the weekend alone rather than go out with just any man who is not good for me, she can too.If I can go to bed at 10 p.m. so that I can get up on time to get to work on time, she can too. Stop making excuses for her. You should expect much more of her. Having low expectations of her is the reason why she probably won’t make it out of the ghetto even if she want to leave.

    Environment is very important. The easiest way to change someone’s behavior is to change their environment. Anyone who has studied change and habit formation would tell you that.

    You’re assuming they want to change their environment. They don’t because they are complacent. Many people in the ghetto don’t have to worry about all the things middle class people have to worry about.The wrong assumption being made here is that most people in the ghetto want to get out. That has not proven to be accurate.

    I think that too many people just want to keep thinking the same way about the same issues, and this is why nothing changes.

    Like


  101. @Trojan Pam–

    I personally believe that understanding the SYSTEM of racism/white supremacy is a NECESSITY before black people – regardless of title, education, or income — can overcome the effects of this system

    I think that “white supremacy” has only been blamed 50 quadrillion times for all of Black Americans problems. It’s said so much here on Abagond’s site until by now, even the most feeble minded person gets it. It doesn’t need to be said in every thread or comment.

    But I don’t agree. I’m not helpless and I don’t consider other Blacks to be helpless either. Black Americans weren’t helpless on the plantations, or at other points, so why would they be helpless now? If dismantling what you call global white supremacy is a prerequisite for Black Americans to advance, then we may as well just all slit our wrists at the count of 3. :-)

    Like


  102. @ solesearch

    Of course, it’s understandable that the healthcare industry wants to expand their base AND increase their profits

    but what’s nefarious is elected officials DECEIVING the people, especially the most vulnerable people — into involuntarily FUNDING these profits in the name of helping them

    and putting the IRS in charge of collecting fines for not complying with this profit-based venture??

    believe me, the healthcare industry is not suffering financially. If you’ve ever submitted a bill to be paid only to have it denied or a tiny portion paid, you know that the healthcare industry is NOT operating in the red

    Once we understand that we live under a corporate state, a oligarchy (rule by the rich) NOT a government run for and by the people

    we would be suspicious of ANY legislation that is written by a corporate entity for profit and signed by so-called elected politicians as for “our own good”

    if people followed the LOGIC, they would not be so quick to fall for these con games OR at the least would do some independent investigation

    instead of trusting (or falling in love) with politicians and taking his or her words as gold

    Like


  103. @ Jorbia

    I don’t doubt that “white supremacy” has been said on this blog, I was referring to this particular thread, and again, I’ve seen a lot of black people blaming other black people BUT almost none seem to hold racism OR white people accountable for the problems of poor blacks.

    a strange position for those with education who understand the system

    Also, most comments period are simply revised comments in one form or another so that’s nothing new that we are all repeating something someone else said only in our own way.

    I never said that black people are helpless (we’re not) or that we bear no responsibility for changing our conditions but I do feel that the most powerful people with the most resources always bear the most blame for whatever conditions exist,

    especially economic and education disparities for blacks VS whites

    Blacks today are still on the plantations — as were slaves, and we’re still prisoners in a system that mistreats and deprives us because we are not white.

    It deprives us of educational and economic opportunities, it guarantees inferior and inadequate services, housing and health care, and murders our families and children

    For those who think poor blacks should “just pull themselves up by their bootstraps” when the VAST MAJORITY of us have never had to do that is simply mimicking the racist attitudes whites have about poor black people

    which should cause anyone doing that to question their own issues with their own blackness (in my opinion)

    Because I guarantee you, even the most educated blacks on this thread — if they were fired tomorrow morning — would feel pretty helpless and would probably immediately or eventually go to WHITE PEOPLE seeking (or begging) for help or for another job or a loan to start a business

    that’s what I mean by “dependent”

    Acknowledging that we are in a weak position in this nation does not make us weak or helpless, it makes us stronger, wiser and more capable of doing what is necessary to be free of this system because facing the truth means you can find solutions to your problems that work.

    But lying to ourselves about our TRUE condition on the other hand like,

    “I don’t depend on white people, I don’t need this or that job, I’m my own person, I don’t care what white people think cause I’m strong and in charge of my own destiny”

    makes us weaker, more afraid, and less self-respecting because none of that is true EVEN if you have money because we still have to go to WHITE PEOPLE to get it and spend it.

    It’s the TRUTH that makes you strong

    even if that means you’re starting at ground zero because if that’s where you are, that’s where you are

    at that point , the only way is UP

    Like


  104. When the Great Depression of the 30s hit the U.S. government created welfare and jobs for white people because they needed help no one called them “deadbeats” or “ghetto whites”

    Yet, when many black communities are in a real depression, with 30 and 50% unemployment rates, black children going to bed hungry, these poor blacks are being demonized whenever they ask for help

    Worse yet, they are being demonized by OTHER black people who by the grace of God are still employed (because education alone does NOT guarantee a job or a living wage)

    it’s tragic how cold some of us have become toward those who look just like us

    Like


  105. The problem, IMO, is not Obama. The problem is that African Americans do not demand anything for their votes. Other constituencies get candidates to make them promises prior to casting their votes. The LGBT community does, the so-called Hispanic community does, the Jewish lobby does, White’s of all demographics do.

    We, however, seem to simply be happy to cast a vote for a Black man. And, then sit around oooing and awwing about how beautiful Michelle and the girls are.

    If you do not demand something for your vote then you will get exactly what you asked for, nothing. And since no promises were made to us by this President, I don’t expect anything from him except to ignore us.

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  106. @Solesearch
    I meant networth. Sorry if I confused you.

    @Trojan Palm
    ”When the Great Depression of the 30s hit the U.S. government created welfare and jobs for white people because they needed help no one called them “deadbeats” or “ghetto whites”

    Yet, when many black communities are in a real depression, with 30 and 50% unemployment rates, black children going to bed hungry, these poor blacks are being demonized whenever they ask for help

    Worse yet, they are being demonized by OTHER black people who by the grace of God are still employed (because education alone does NOT guarantee a job or a living wage)

    it’s tragic how cold some of us have become toward those who look just like us”

    Well said. It is a double standard in this country and sad to say but us Blacks need to stick together and work together to make our community better for the next generation of Black kids growing up. There is so much issues we need to fix and solve in our communities. No, we aren’t helpless. In fact, many of our problems go back to slavery. Slavery really messed up the structure of the Black family for generations to come. Since Black Americans (I am of Jamaican descent)don’t know where we came from, we sure don’t know where we are going. The English took our heritage and culture away from us.

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  107. Val,

    I think a large part of the that reason lies in the fact that black people have been told for so long in one way or another that we don’t matter. Our opinions, thoughts, even our lives don’t amount to a hill of beans unless it benefits white America.

    And sadly, many of us internalize that. We see and hear it, take it in and personalize it as being a part of life for us. As such, some of us are happy as hell when we are given scraps and small tokens because we don’t believe we are living, but surviving.

    Until the black community learns to overcome their internalized oppression, and believe within our hearts that we deserve more than what we get day after day, year after year, we will continue to get little or nothing.

    Also, U.S. politicians no matter who it is has not been a representative for the people, but for gigantic sums of money and power. Who ever has the most of that will have their wishes granted even if the people get screwed in the process. We’ve seen this not only with Republicans but with Democrats as well, and they mostly cater to maintain the white male power structure no matter what.

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  108. it’s tragic how cold some of us have become toward those who look just like us

    As I’m sure you already know, it’s the nature of the system Trojan Pam: “Gain wealth, forgetting all but self.” Some people (many?) give in to the dominant messages and instructions of our socio/economic system. Again, solutions need to be sought and efforts made to implement the solutions; we have to accept that this will be hard work and do it anyway. We might be living through a time of opportunity which will not come to us again:

    We’re becoming a less free nation everyday … you know, if you don’t want to join our movement, join some movement but dammit do something! because: we are in an age that we may never be able to capture again.”

    The quote begins at 10:33, but the entire video is worth watching.
    .

    Like


  109. @Val and Brothawolf

    I think a large part of the that reason lies in the fact that black people have been told for so long in one way or another that we don’t matter.

    I don’t agree with what Brothawolf says here as the reason for blacks accepting crumbs. Blacks have a “leadership” that tells them to be content with crumbs and be good and go to church. I think what really happened is that there is a collective memory/legacy from the assassinations and smashing up of blacks that happened in the 60’s. People can try to give other explanations for political timidity among black Americans but I think they’re being creative in ignoring an 800lbs gorilla.

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  110. President Obama can’t be a rented Negro, because that would imply that he is Black. He is a mixed race man, raised ethnically as a European American and never even associated with Negroes until college.

    “The Role of the Bastard as a Factor in History.”

    Like


  111. @TrojanPam–

    Where your argument is falling to pieces is that if this system of global white supremacy is the big bad evil system that you say it is, then why would you expect it to care about Black people? That doesn’t make sense.

    You don’t need to remind me again that middle class Black people could lose their job tomorrow and join the poor. If I lost my job tomorrow, I would be just fine. It’s not like middle class Black people don’t know they can lose their job.

    Also, people are tired of giving poor people money and my parents were poor too at one point.All Black Americans were poor at one point, but giving poor Black people money doesn’t work. We know they don’t usually use it in the right way. Billions of dollars later after the war on poverty, we know that doesn’t work. It continues the cycle of dependency and has created an angry entitlement attitude. I would support feeding children and disabled adults indefinitely though.

    Some commenters here don’t believe in holding poor people responsible for anything. Seems that some of you just want other people to keep on giving and nothing is demanded from young able-bodied recipients. Instead, there are excuses for them. You don’t see how that really destroys those recipients from the inside out. .

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  112. @Brothawolf

    “Until the black community learns to overcome their internalized oppression, and believe within our hearts that we deserve more than what we get day after day, year after year, we will continue to get little or nothing.”

    True.

    And, it’s not only internalized oppression, we have so-called leaders who have become shills for the Democratic Party. They have led many of us to blindly vote for the Democrats even while getting nothing in return.

    Also, they have allowed the Democrats and Republicans to play good cop/ bad cop with us making us feel as though we can only vote for one Party. When they should have led us to infiltrate the Republican Party to make it a viable voting alternative so that we would have a choice and actually have some political power.

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  113. @ Adeen

    I agree, it’s a double standard for poor blacks who are at the bottom of the manufactured matrix that GUARANTEES most will stay there (and we need to understand this).

    You cannot have an “economic pyramid” by accident. You MUST create a bottom this is much larger than the middle or the top in order to have a middle and a top. This system is BUILT upon the broken backs of the masses of poor people. Without them, you’d have NO MIDDLE OR UPPER CLASSES.

    In a white supremacy system, it is LOGICAL for the darkest people to be at the bottom and to pile on brown, yellow, near white and white on top of them so they can’t get up

    It is NO accident that poor blacks have it the hardest. If not for them (us) at the bottom how would you support a middle and an upper class and how would whites always be guaranteed a spot above them?

    there are many other reasons that blacks are the most oppressed but I’ll stay on topic

    You hit it right on the head about not knowing where we came from — another deliberate action on the part of slave-owners. I believe it was Adam Smith who spoke about “creating the perfect slave” by wiping clean all history and knowledge of self then REBUILDING them in the image and mindset that serves the purposes of their slave-owners.

    we cannot underestimate the damage that was done over a 500 year period then expect to heal in a 40 year period while damage is STILL being done to us.

    Family is the FOUNDATION of ALL human societies, the GLUE that holds a people together and allows them to humanize and civilize and BOND with each other and their offspring.

    since our families were destroyed during slavery (and have yet to be rebuilt) we minimize the value of the family, perhaps to numb ourselves from facing the real damage that has been done

    because if we really face the truth about those 500 years there are only two alternatives

    to face a dangerous enemy we are totally dependent upon and address their crimes against us

    or take the safest road, pretend that we can assimilate with people that despise us, and continue to dump on and blame each other

    Like


  114. @Legion

    “Blacks have a “leadership” that tells them to be content with crumbs and be good and go to church.”

    That is true. I think overall the three of us are agreeing.

    Like


  115. @ legion

    I agree with you that “Blacks have a “leadership” that tells them to be content with crumbs and be good and go to church.”

    Absolutely.

    Because we are still practicing the same SLAVE TRADITIONS and same religions that the slave-owners taught us, with a white Jesus (which means God must be white, too) and to be passive and pray and hope and wait for our rewards when we die

    why do we think we were taught this? and why are black churches allowed to operate as non-profit entities even to the extent that many black “preachers” in cities like mine are given all kinds of “passes” like parking in no parking zones, etc.

    why are there more black churches than black businesses?

    and why are there black churches on darn near every corner and hell in between?

    because the most powerful people know how effective black preachers who preach to and teach their black flock with a pic of white Jesus hanging behind the pulpit are in keeping blacks in an enslaved (and passive) state of mind.

    and that’s where I believe President Obama honed his oratory skills and his ability to “move” black people when he joined the church of Reverend Wright

    because nobody can move black people like a black preacher

    IMO

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  116. @ Jorbia

    who said: “Where your argument is falling to pieces is that if this system of global white supremacy is the big bad evil system that you say it is, then why would you expect it to care about Black people? That doesn’t make sense.”

    I think you have misinterpreted what was said. I never once said I expect the white system to care about black people.

    Then you said: “If I lost my job tomorrow, I would be just fine.”

    If that is true, why would anyone keep a job they don’t need? I know I wouldn’t be fine if I lost my job. I might not starve but my standard of living would take a huge hit.

    Also, people are tired of giving poor people money and my parents were poor too at one point.All Black Americans were poor at one point, but giving poor Black people money doesn’t work.

    What “people” are you talking about who are tired? If “people” are giving so much money to poor people why are they still poor? that doesn’t make sense to me.

    The money that you (and I) pay in taxes is mostly going in the pockets of the super-rich corporations and individuals that pay zero income taxes — which is why they have most of the money.

    nobody’s worrying and fretting about their “dependency” on our dollars, are they?

    No disrespect, but how does anyone know how most poor people spend their money? Why would a black person who spends their lifetime fighting stereotypes be stereotyping other black people?

    Many poor people — white, black, brown, etc — are WORKING POOR and do the kinds of jobs that make your and my life easier, like cleaning hotel rooms, busing dishes after someone has fed us, mopping up office buildings and cleaning toilets to make sure you and I have clean bathrooms and working the cash registers so you and I can spend our paychecks

    without these poor people, America would grind to a screeching halt.

    Unfortunately, most don’t earn a living wage and have to work two or more jobs, which means they need additional assistance (like food stamps) and that they can’t be there for their children who often wind up in the prison industrial complex that WE pay for.

    The billions of dollars in the war on poverty did NOT go to poor people, it went into employing educated people and giving them middle-class jobs.

    QUESTION: What do you think poor people who can’t find jobs should do. Just curious as to what solutions you have that would alleviate their poverty…

    I would love to hear them

    Like


  117. It’s true that if President Obama is a “rented negro” it makes a great difference but it is also true that it is important that he’s the first African-American president and so paves the way for one that isn’t. I find him to be incredibly intelligent and able to do the job he has been elected for. It makes the beat-downs and strifes I and so many others faced during the 60’s and 70’s almost worthwhile. I say give him a chance to show that he can be effective and make a difference for us. No one of any race, creed or color can possibly do it in one term. He’s brought down Osama bin Laden, Sudaam Hussein and is taking important steps at taking steps toward solving a most ineffective immigration program. The President is working and I think that is important; he spends his time not relaxing at retreats and on vacations but addressing the problems of our country and its problems. Now if he can get the Congess and Senate to attend and work on the issues instead of voting and living in absentia we may be able to solve some of needed and long overdue issues it will be worhwhile. At least we know now that you don’t have to be white to occupy our nation’s most important office BTW I am not of a minorty but am Caucasion and believe whole heartldy that we al must take advantage of the entire population no matter who they are to solve our economica societal problems. Let’s get behind the Constitution and show that we are all created equal in the eyes of our government and laws. Let’s all get together and do what’s right.

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  118. @ V4

    who said, “Also it was mentioned that obama doesn’t have any slave blood; thats not true, he does…..from his Mom’s side of the family.

    Back in the day when her white ancestors were indentured servants, One of them married her ancesotr that was a black slave, Back then in the 1600s there was less seperation between Indentured servants and slaves, they lived together, played together etc….So Obama does have slave blood in him.”

    Very interesting…do you have a link for this info?

    I believe there is a difference between descending from slaves and having a little ‘slave blood’ because that would mean his white mother descended from slaves and if that was a recognized fact, would she still be classified as a white person?

    how many white people have a drop or two or more of “slave blood” but are not classified as descended from slaves? I suspect quite a few of them

    but I could be incorrect

    Like


  119. You guys need to drop the talk about him having “slave blood.” It’s pretty much meaningless. Like if slavery had ended a few decades ago then this term “slave blood” would have some meaning. If you had family members who could give you graphic descriptions of things like healed over pulped flesh of family members still freshly remembered, that kind of shit would get in your consciousness and inform your own identity, but we’re not living in that kind of world. Talking about his “slave blood” or lack of it, et cetera is just folksy rhetoric along the lines of this comment from election season:

    “And anyone who believes Obama isn’t under the watchful eye of big brother like MLK and Malcolm is sadly mistaken ….”

    https://abagond.wordpress.com/2012/11/05/why-i-am-voting-for-obama/#comment-150724

    Like


  120. Aba, this “person” Glen W Lewis has made a pablum statement of orthodoxy and also they created a link out of there name that goes to yahoo.com. Do you consider their comment to be spam? I feel like when the US was bleeding from the guts and Bush told everyone to get back to the malls and car dealerships and shop. Obama has joined the proud tradition of US presidents who are war criminals and this “Lewis” wants to speak gibberish pablum and increase hits at yahoo.

    Like


  121. @ Satanforce

    Awesome video! Thanks.

    Like


  122. @ Legion

    Lewis seems to be taking part. I have never known Yahoo! to stoop to such lows as spamming blogs. Commenters often put in generic URLs, sometimes my own. Thanks for the heads-up.

    Like


  123. Every time I am about to catch up on this thread I am called away! But I pretty much agree with what Trojan Pam has been saying.

    Like


  124. @Truthbetold

    I urged my readers NOT to vote, AT ALL

    And what destructive advice this was and yes: ignorant too.

    One’s vote in the recent election had to be used to block Romney/Ryan and the republicans. Then with that accomplished the public should be using the following four years opposing and restraining the Obama administrations violence and programs of gift giving to the rich and the corporations. And segments of the public should be educating other segments of the public to build a base of support for possibly The Green Party for the next election.

    Like


  125. I’m first going to apologize to all the previous commentors on this topic for not reading all the comments before posting in this comment some of my opinions and views,because while not all ,many here have very intelligent and thoughtful viewpoints on this issue – which I value very much.

    That said ,while I immediately saw what obama was – a front man for the same albinic people that engineered 911,
    I did not see 911 coming ,nor why.

    Some big things I seem to have intuitively known as a child others I’m still learning and may never know.

    But a large portion of african americans and other people are in even worse shape – I watched the ecstatic black crowds cheering like it meant something –
    that now “one of us” can do the same immoral and deprived things at home & abroad ,that had been previously denied us.

    I even look sometimes at the way obama speaks and the prettiness of his family and say ,well at least they are presenting a respectable and mature image.

    But as reality gets through the fantasy I’ve gone from hoping that him and his family never come to harm to not really caring if him I hear tomorrow that him and his entire family are brutally murdered.

    See it was/is more than about the concerns of a population of ex/former slaves most of whom are completely ineffectual in saving their own lives from each other much less effecting empire policy in thier groups favor.

    Its about a global empire and historical hegemony that needs to convince the world(or trick it or distract it) that even though the same population that wholesale mass murdered its way to its current position of “power* ,is not like that anymore(lie) and is changing(lie).

    BTW – i kinda knew what type of president/emperor/don obama would be by the way his wife looked – while not a ugly women ,she always struck me as deep down someone who was extremely ruthless and vicious;
    contrast to obama its even worse as he does not look like the kind of man that would calmly and premeditately order or approve of torture ,indiscriminate murder etc or cry on que for the latest prearranged tragedy .

    Excellent images to put on a empire – ruthless criminal organization in guise of a government.

    Like


  126. on Mon 18 Feb 2013 at 07:59:12 Wong Chia Chi

    I think Obama is a politician. Just like the rest of them. Black or not.

    Like


  127. Im reluctant to comment on this, but, Im going to throw out my thoughts here and expect a lot of scrutiny for it..

    I beleive many times on here, people have reminded us that 70 percent of black Americans are middle class

    what does that mean? I think it has something to do with the fact that 70 percent of black Americans beat a system that was not set up for them to beat at all…in fact, when the dope smoking , slave owning, founding fathers set up this system, they surly werent setting it up for their slaves or had any idea that 70 percent of their descendents could beat this system and atain middle class status

    All the racism and discrimination mentioned here is true, yet, inspiet of those huge obstacles set in their paths, 70 percent black Ameicans beat a system that wasnt set up for them….its like racism and discrimination is one thing in society, but, how to beat the system is another thing , that actualy can be done

    Obama comes from within the system , he is a politician, how could he be anything else. To have reached the nomination for presidency in his party he has to come from within it

    But, I look on his efforts to save the financail system, that is set up for the elite wealthy more than anything, but, this system still can be beat, as really also looking out for those 70 percent black American middle class, also…the system goes down and the black middle class will be first hit

    I dont know if any of you have lived in a country where the money was deteriorating everyday. Brazil was like that when I first came down and it was scary , really scary…they since got it together by first firming up their currency

    America was really headed that way with Bush, the money was going down , the ship was sinking…and, Obama really did what was nescasary to save that ship from taking a turn no one here might really understand what the result would have been

    Of course the rich and elite get over big in this system, but, it is a system that has been beat, by 70 percent black Americans, inspite of the inherant racism that is in this system, aperhantly, there is a side that doesnt play by the racist rules entirly…it certainly wasnt handed on a silver platter to black Americans, they have had to fight for every inch…but, where in the world do you see more black prosperity? Not here in Brazil, I guarentee you that…

    So, I think Obama inside the system, is not the huge detriment it is playing out on here as……but, that is my opinion…Im ready for the scrutiny on this one

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  128. @ Linda

    I pretty much agree: anyone who gets to the top of a white organization would have to know how to “play the game” and be seen as “safe” by white people.

    Like


  129. @ Legion

    I would say that most presidents since at least Nixon were rented. Shirley Chisholm said as much in 1972 about her own time. Even McGovern, as noble as he seems, was rented.

    I would go further and say that Nixon, Reagan and the two Bushes were Rented Caucasians in that they won through the Southern Strategy: they got whites to vote against their class interests by an appeal to skin colour.

    “Rented Negro” is not meant as an academic term. It is meant to sound mocking. Because it is mocking. But it makes the point that one needs to push past the black symbolism of Obama and to ask if he is rented, to follow the money, not one’s feelings.

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  130. @ Legion

    I agree: in 2012 not voting was in effect a vote for Romney. I voted Green before. I might do it again.

    Like


  131. @ Trojan Pam

    “or that he has NEVER held a town hall meeting in a black area?”

    Wow, that is pretty bad. Neither did he speak at the NAACP in 2012 even though Romney did.

    Like


  132. What did people honestly expect Obama to do? When I ask this question. All I hear are crickets.

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  133. Gay Marriage is a single issue that Gays want. Amnesty is what Illegals want.

    What is it that Black Americans want that no other Race in America doesn’t? All issues pertaining to race have laws on the books already. Racism isn’t Black America’s biggest issue. The fact that some still believe it is. That is a bigger problem.

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  134. @TrojanPam

    Then you said: “If I lost my job tomorrow, I would be just fine.”

    If that is true, why would anyone keep a job they don’t need? I know I wouldn’t be fine if I lost my job. I might not starve but my standard of living would take a huge hit.

    I didn’t say I don’t need my job. I need it and want it, but I never wanted to be dependent on a job, so with my first job after college, I bought a 3-unit rental property. I’m looking to buy another one now before I lose my middle class job. :-) If I lost my job, I could live in one of my units. Shelter is always the biggest expense.

    What “people” are you talking about who are tired? If “people” are giving so much money to poor people why are they still poor? that doesn’t make sense to me.

    It’s been documented so many times that most poor people don’t know how to be frugal with money. I’m saying that billions of dollars were pumped into low income areas during Johnson’s war on poverty. How many people did the money lift out of poverty. Not a lot.

    No disrespect, but how does anyone know how most poor people spend their money?

    In this society, legally-obtained money is easily tracked. So the bean counters definitely know how, when, where, and with whom money is spent.

    Why would a black person who spends their lifetime fighting stereotypes be stereotyping other black people?

    So you don’t think that a black person is supposed to ever mention what black people do that compounds the problems of the group. Are we talking solutions or do you just want to blame global white supremacy.

    Many poor people — white, black, brown, etc — are WORKING POOR and do the kinds of jobs that make your and my life easier,

    But I didn’t mention the “working” poor. My focus was on the “idle” poor. You’re conflating the two groups. Why? You’re trying to make it seem like black people are all noble and hard-working and there aren’t idle poor black people who would refuse a job unless it’s paying a lot. You may not know this, but many of the “idle” poor feel entitled to a high paying job and they refuse to take anything less. I am not talking about the “working” poor. My mother was a waitress and cashier when she met my Dad. He was a member of the working poor too, at the time.

    The billions of dollars in the war on poverty did NOT go to poor people, it went into employing educated people and giving them middle-class jobs.

    I agree and made that point above. My parents got 3 of those middle class salary CETA jobs back in the 70s or 80s, but my parents already had an associates and bachelor’s degrees at the time.They value education. If billions more money came into most poor communities today, the same thing would happen.

    QUESTION: What do you think poor people who can’t find jobs should do. Just curious as to what solutions you have that would alleviate their poverty…

    For starters, I could suggest a number of solutions, like Black American families living together, sharing housing and other expenses like lots of immigrant families do. But most here wouldn’t like that and would say that and other obvious solutions won’t work because they would shift the focus from the government to the individual and the community.

    Black Americans need to learn how to communicate with each other and they need to focus on family building. That’s needed for infrastructure building.If they could do that to a certain extent, they could build stronger communities.Many in the community would find work inside the community. Like you said above and I’ve mentioned it too, that the family is the basic building unit of any group, but I’ve never seen a topic on here about Black Americans building up and maintaining their families. Black Americans will not make or maintain progress without building and maintaining families. I already know that no one wants to get into that because talking about the interior work of building up from the inside out and maintaining families takes the focus off global white supremacy and puts it on what would make the greatest impact.

    Like


  135. @B.R.–

    I beleive many times on here, people have reminded us that 70 percent of black Americans are middle class

    I’m always suspicious when I hear this high percentage cited. I don’t believe it. If there are this many Black Americans in the middle class, then I wonder how this jibes with all of these comments about how Black Americans are kept down by racism.

    Like


  136. @Mbeti–

    But as reality gets through the fantasy I’ve gone from hoping that him and his family never come to harm to not really caring if him I hear tomorrow that him and his entire family are brutally murdered.

    That’s not a nice thing to say! Remember there are plenty of people who wouldn’t really care if you were brutally murdered too. No one made anyone vote for Obama.

    BTW – i kinda knew what type of president/emperor/don obama would be by the way his wife looked – while not a ugly women ,she always struck me as deep down someone who was extremely ruthless and vicious;
    contrast to obama its even worse as he does not look like the kind of man that would calmly and premeditately order or approve of torture ,indiscriminate murder etc or cry on que for the latest prearranged tragedy .

    Oh, so you’re like the right-wing haters who pick at the First Lady because of her looks. I can’t believe you’re blaming Obama’s actions on his wife since you don’t think she’s cute enough. I’d be curious to know which First Ladies you think are better looking than her. Also, I’d like to see a picture of your mother.

    Like


  137. @ Legion

    I got to agree with you when you said:

    “You guys need to drop the talk about him having “slave blood. Talking about his “slave blood” or lack of it, et cetera is just folksy rhetoric along the lines of this comment from election season:

    “And anyone who believes Obama isn’t under the watchful eye of big brother like MLK and Malcolm is sadly mistaken ….”

    —-

    Thanks for pulling us back to reality, I couldn’t define the meaning of “slave blood” in today’s context, anyway.

    Also that quote you gave is the kind of sentimental, non-analytical stuff that blacks are encouraged to think that creates the fuzzy brain syndrome.

    besides, I sincerely doubt that two black warriors who came FROM the people, were ATTACKED by white people, and who DIED for their cause

    would approve of any so-called “black leader” today who lives in luxury and who doesn’t even talk about OR talk TO their own so-called “people”

    Martin and Malcolm would have seen thru that charade in a new york second.

    what an awful comparison.

    Like


  138. @ Legion who said:

    Aba, this “person” Glen W Lewis has made a pablum statement of orthodoxy and also they created a link out of there name that goes to yahoo.com.”


    that’s why I didn’t bother responding to his post. It sounded hollow and fake and an attempt at the least to appeal to the white-identified, white-validation-seeking part that’s been bred in ALL black people (including myself)

    that a white person who “appears” to support anyone or anything black is above suspicion and should be listened to

    as in

    “Uh oh, this white man (who might be a Chinese man for all we know) is kinda telling us to sit still and let President Obama do his thing.”

    When in reality, the Obama administration is in its FIFTH YEAR, SECOND TERM and if that ain’t enough to CLUE us about the real deal then we haven’t been paying attention OR we have serious comprehension abilities.

    Legion, you are absolutely right about Obama joining the tradition of war criminals, don’t forget Henry Kissinger supposedly gave Obama his first job out of college.

    What do we think he he was teaching him? THE ART OF WARFARE

    I tried to tell people that Obama — when speaking to a private gathering I believe in 2006 or 2007 — said when president he would start MORE wars, and had threatened to bomb Pakistan BEFORE he was even president.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/08/01/us-usa-politics-obama-idUSN0132206420070801

    In addition, look at the DAMAGE done to non-white nations under his so-called banner

    Drones over Pakistan killing innocent men, women, elderly, AND CHILDREN.

    An African leader deposed in Libya

    African people being slaughtered under the banner of the red, white and blue

    and there’s too much to list here

    and when I ask black people HOW you could cheer this nation killing African people and attacking African leaders who have NEVER attacked the U.S, and STILL call yourself a

    “proud African-American”

    All I got were blank looks

    because suddenly American MILITARY policy changed from a bad thing to a good thing cause it’s President Obama was doing it (sic)

    Of course, I must add that it is NOT him doing anything, he is puppet, and an order-taking, just like his predecessor, Geo Bush, Jr.

    Like


  139. @ abagond

    Thanks for putting up with my hogging your blog but once I got started, i couldn’t stop especially after I read your title and post

    Also, I, too, voted “green” in 2008 and 2012 but my reasons for 2012 had to do with a local referendum on the ballet, an attempt for crooked Illinois politicians to gut the Illinois constitution

    Had it not been for that, I would have sat the last election out.

    Because I knew 2008 and 2012 was a SHAM election and that Obama was going to be elected no matter HOW black or white people voted. The fix has been in for a long time, and it can be DETAILED and if anyone wants to know just hit my site and send an email and I would be glad to do it.

    I asked people last year prior to the election to think about this:

    IF the Republican Party sincerely wanted to win that election why would they have come out against so many anti-worker, anti-elderly, anti-homosexual, and anti-so-called-minority issues so PUBLICLY?

    Why wouldn’t they just LIE like the Dems were doing?

    Also, why would the Republican Party choose a MORMON for their candidate to represent a white CHRISTIAN majority? Even white people, white males especially were complaining about not liking Romney.

    Because they weren’t trying to win. Obama was already the (s)elected President for 2012 even before the votes were cast.

    What I wished black people would have done was NOT VOTE AT ALL as a STRATEGY, meaning we would tell NO ONE our reasons why (the art of warfare)

    we’d just make a collective effort to NOT PARTICIPATE in any more fraudulent elections where our needs are ignored.

    for two reasons:

    1. Our votes do not elect presidents. Remember 2000 where ONE MILLION BLACK VOTES were not counted? (you can google this). That alone said that if the powers that be don’t like the way we vote, they just discard them. And don’t forget the black box voting machines.

    They are computers, plain and simple. An expose in the news during a Bush election showed how easy it was to create the vote you wanted with those boxes.

    2. black voters are too predictable, too easily manipulated, and everybody knows the majority will vote Democratic no matter what, so why offer us anything at all?

    had we done the unpredicted, it would have sent SHOCK WAVES thru the political system if black people had stayed home. We would immediately be seen as an unpredictable population that had to be dealt with differently from that point on.

    Abagond, I’d like to include this link in my post:

    http://theblackcodefiles.com/2012/11/10/some-cautionary-post-election-thoughts-part-2-a-guest-post-by-trojan-pam

    If that is a problem, please delete it.

    Like


  140. @ abagond

    Not only has President Obama never held a town hall meeting in a black area, he boycotted every UN Conference on Racism since his presidency.

    Especially the one that was going to deal with black reparations (because Israel was boycotting it, which should tell you what group really controls Obama)

    For those who might say with great passion, “He’s not a black president, he’s the president of everybody!”

    again, our WE not part of that “everybody?”

    Here are some facts:

    Obama was the first US President to host a Jewish seder in the White house

    Obama held a national education meeting at the Hispanic Chamber of Commerce

    Obama has held many town hall meetings in predominantly white areas

    Obama attended a shopping mall festival in a white area

    Obama has attended Hispanic music festivals

    Obama is pushing hard for ILLEGAL immigrant rights and more immigration reform (do we know how that has DEVASTATED black employment??)

    Obama has come out supporting homosexual marriage and supports homosexual rights in the military

    Obama has even pushed for homosexual rights in the BOY SCOUTS

    Obama has promised continued FINANCIAL and MILITARY support for Israel (he’d better since they represent his real bosses)

    Obama personally rushed down to Colorado to comfort the injured and the loved ones (all white people) after the theater shooting

    Obama has personally attended the funerals of dead white children

    Obama has shed a (crocodile) tear for benefit of TV camera and white people watching for the 22 dead white children

    and even boasted of keeping a picture of a little dead white girl on his desk that he looks at often

    BUT when it comes to black people?

    when Obama comes to Chicago (my hometown) he didn’t play at a golf course near his Hyde Park home (in a predominantly black area), he chose a white golf course in an area where blacks aren’t welcome

    when Obama attended a Chicago fundraiser for his re-election, he skipped the Bud Biliken parade (a black Chicago tradition going back 40 or more years) even though he said he would be there and the parade was only a few miles from his fund-raiser

    Obama’s response to the death of the 15-year old black female honor student Hadiya Pendleton — it was ONLY after a petition was posted on the White House website asking President Obama to attend her funeral was to

    send his wife Michelle Obama to the funeral

    His response to the pleas of the Black Star Organization in Chicago (a black group dedicated to saving black youth) when they stated that more black children have been shot and/or killed than all the soliders in Iraq

    was SILENCE

    All that being said (and can be PROVEN) is not to demonize President Obama

    Because he is not in charge of what his presidency represents or accomplishes because he — like the last 7 or more presidents — is a puppet of the elite

    so blaming him is like blaming the person on the phone who is representing the company but has no power to change a single company policy

    however, it is important that we be REALISTIC and HONEST about what we’re looking at. the evidence is all around us and it serves no purpose to keep pretending something is true that is NOT.

    President Obama was not put there BY us, was not financed BY us, and does not work FOR us. We would do better to maintain a neutral position and figure out strategies OURSELVES to ensure our survival and our prosperity AS black people.

    sorry about the long posts!

    Like


  141. @ JoeClyde

    who said, “What did people honestly expect Obama to do? When I ask this question. All I hear are crickets.”

    Well, Joe, you didn’t ask me. Of course I didn’t support him because I knew what he was. What did black people expect Obama to do?

    I believe they thought they might get some help (just like white people get help) with the huge unemployment figures, the violence, and the closing schools, and reducing racism, and help in eliminating black poverty.

    They believed they would finally be acknowledged as human beings, as citizens of the U.S., once a black man was in the White House.

    they didn’t expect to be totally ignored for giving him 95% of their votes. I don’t think that was an unreasonable expectation if you think your votes helped someone get elected.

    Of course, so-called Black America has UNIQUE problems that whites don’t have. Racism, being the biggest problem, one that has defined black existence since slavery.

    I don’t know if you’re a white person (I certainly hope so) but racism/white supremacy is not only the biggest problem for blacks in America, it’s the biggest problem on the planet for ALL non-white people.

    All you have to do is look around the world at non-white people and see how they’re being mistreated, cheated, raped, robbed, murdered, and their resources and lands stolen by whites — all because they are NOT white — and that is all the evidence any reasonable person needs. .

    Like


  142. @ TrojanPam

    I would like to commend you for posting some excellent information here. Particularly the last one to Abagond you provided with a link to your site. (I’ll be sure to read this and comment if I have any)

    This discussion does remind me of the one held last year on this same blog concerning voting for Obama. I only hope enough people have become wiser now to the charade voting in present day elections is.

    My own take on this remains unchanged here:

    https://abagond.wordpress.com/2012/11/05/why-i-am-voting-for-obama/#comment-150840

    Like


  143. @ Jorbia

    Congrats that you created some financial security for yourself.

    I was commenting on you using the word “fine” if you lost your job which to me indicated that you didn’t need a job. If I lost my job, I wouldn’t starve or be homeless, but I’d be far from fine.

    You said: “It’s been documented so many times that most poor people don’t know how to be frugal with money. I’m saying that billions of dollars were pumped into low income areas during Johnson’s war on poverty. How many people did the money lift out of poverty. Not a lot.”


    Again, I choose not to lump most or all poor people since I don’t live in those households. In fact, I would say many are very frugal out of NECESSITY because they have to stretch those dollars and do a better job than most middle-income people who frankly are probably stretching their dollars with credit cards, eating out a lot more than they should, buying cars and homes they really can’t afford, and living well above their means.

    My money says most poor people do a lot more with their meager incomes than most middle-income people who vastly rely on that decent paycheck every two weeks to keep themselves going.

    Also, how many of US could feed and clothe and house and even keep a supply of toilet paper in the house (have you seen the price lately?) for four kids on an income of $20,000 a year plus food stamps?

    I couldn’t.

    And for the record, all poor people do not live on the government dole or on Section 8. In fact, the waiting list for Section 8 means a person who is newly poor might wait years to get an apartment.

    You said: “In this society, legally-obtained money is easily tracked. So the bean counters definitely know how, when, where, and with whom money is spent.”

    You might be right or wrong about that, but one thing is certain. Neither you NOR I have that information so why jump to those conclusions?

    I’m also challenging stereotypes about who is poor and deserving and who is not, but again, we can agree to cordially disagree.

    You said: “My parents got 3 of those middle class salary CETA jobs back in the 70s or 80s, but my parents already had an associates and bachelor’s degrees at the time.They value education. If billions more money came into most poor communities today, the same thing would happen.”

    So without government poverty programs your parents wouldn’t have had those middle class jobs and lifted your family out of poverty..very interesting..

    Regarding your solutions to help poor black people by taking our focus off racism/white supremacy, I totally, totally disagree with that.

    You better NOT take your focus off the SYSTEM that controls ALL the resources — monies, land, rights, legal issues, housing, food supplies, energy, police, fire, power grids — and at the same time talk about independently “building up communities and infrastructures”

    We must stop pretending that black people who own and control number can suddenly get hold of these resources without the permission and cooperation of the people who OWN and CONTROL it.

    This is why I say — and will repeat as often as possible — that it is CRUCIAL that black people understand the system of white supremacy. Once we do that, we can make REALISTIC plans for our survival and prosperity.

    Like


  144. @ Jorbia

    correction to post above

    We must stop pretending that black people who own and control nothing (not number)

    Like


  145. @ Kwamla

    Just checked out that thread (how did I miss it? :-)

    very interesting commentary, and I especially liked:

    “If the coin is rotten, corrosive and corrupt, turning it heads up and tails down does not add an iota of value or merit to an otherwise dead, decomposing, worthless currency.”

    and what you said:

    “What I think is patronising is the way the vast majority of the American people are treated: Forcefully indoctrinated to believe their participation in a rigged election game makes a difference…

    In fact its beyond patronizing…Its total callous indifference and is analogous to the countries former historical relationship between a plantation slave and his/her master. When the master allowed the slaves Sunday off work so they could attend church to worship another aspect of the same master (Jesus).
    Of course this time this master looks just like them!!!”

    ——————-

    I only wish fewer people took this Obama issue so personally. He is a STRANGER. He is a POLITICIAN.

    He is not our mother, father, husband, wife, or child.

    We should be able to view this objectively and analytically instead of thinking or acting like our SELF-ESTEEM is tied up in a STRANGER.

    Most of all, the phrase above,

    “If the coin is rotten, corrosive and corrupt, turning it heads up and tails down does not add an iota of value or merit to an otherwise dead, decomposing, worthless currency.”

    greatly fits the current two-party political system. And I would add, if the political system is a SNAKE PIT, you have to be a SNAKE to prosper and survive in it.

    believing that an honest, ethical man or woman can sit on top of the writhing snakes and NOT be consumed (like a “lamb”) would is terribly naive.

    just like believing a man can join a criminal MOB and be CHOSEN as MOB BOSS by those mobsters

    while at the same time ANNOUNCING his INTENT to destroy that MOB

    If that was a movie, we would demand our ticket money back for such an UNBELIEVABLY UNREALISTIC PLOT

    Like


  146. @ Val

    who said: “The problem, IMO, is not Obama. The problem is that African Americans do not demand anything for their votes.”

    I agree that’s part of the problem, and a very self-disrespecting way to conduct ourselves politically. What we essentially said by NOT making any demands or having any expectations was:

    “Just stay black, bro.”

    and I’m betting — in his most private moments — President Obama probably shook his head, thinking about those silly negroes who gave him all that support but asked for nothing but:

    “Just stay black, bro.”

    Like


  147. @Trojan Pam

    It’s been my feeling from the very beginning of hearing about Obama that Malcolm and maybe King (I’m not as informed about MLK as I should be), but definitely Malcolm would have seen through the charade and opposed it OPENLY.

    The way I interpret Malcolm’s understanding of US institutions, especially political institutions, he would INSTANTLY have known that a black man who made it through the vetting process of one or the other major party was of course not someone to trust. In fact Malcolm would have seen through Obama long before Obama’s ascension through the vetting process.

    Re: long before

    I’m alluding here to Obama’s career in Chicago. Something I have urged Abagond and the others to look at, I don’t know if they’ve done so but it’s a revealing exercise; the info is all publicly available news reports on the net. I’ve raised the issue here and here.

    Like


  148. @ TrojanPam

    “…And I would add, if the political system is a SNAKE PIT, you have to be a SNAKE to prosper and survive in it.

    believing that an honest, ethical man or woman can sit on top of the writhing snakes and NOT be consumed (like a “lamb”) would is terribly naive….”

    I couldn’t agree more.

    The picture you paint of “snakes in a pit” is exactly the plight the majority of African-Americans face daily trying to get by or eke out a living in this white supremacist society. Which of course is not to say this is limited to just American society or African-Americans when analyzed and perceived on a global basis.

    Its a point people like Jorbia who continually stress the urgency of building Black families and communities as a means to building economic prosperity fail to acknowledge or address: At what or whose cost?

    Being the biggest and Baddas snake in the pit serves no one, except other aspiring snakes you might want to assist. It says nothing about the question of choosing to live your life as a Baddas snake in the first place!!!

    An altogether equally important consideration about the nature of people we wish to be don’t you think?

    Like


  149. @TrojanPam–

    So without government poverty programs your parents wouldn’t have had those middle class jobs and lifted your family out of poverty..very interesting..

    But in actuality, the money wasn’t aimed at Black Americans who were already college graduates. It was aimed at those who were among the hard-core impoverished. My parents would have become middle class anyway because the economy was very different then. Those CETA jobs were plums for them. They worked at those jobs for a year and they then went on to good careers.

    When I was in grad school, I read up on similar big-money anti-poverty programs like CETA because I was curious as to where most of the billions of dollars had gone. Not surprisingly, it didn’t end up among the most impoverished.

    I don’t believe in continuous reliance on handouts, even if I deserve them. I believe in doing all I can to create my own income and security while I’m young and able. I’d be terrified to live my life depending on anything much from the government.Good luck with that.

    So, we’ll agree to disagree.

    Like


  150. @Kwamla–

    Its a point people like Jorbia who continually stress the urgency of building Black families and communities. . .

    Yes, to me that’s urgent and I’ll continue saying that because if you don’t have a solid family and community base, you don’t have much of anything. You can be easily chopped up because you have nothing backing you up. You’ve got to develop your base, your home.

    This is also a key reason why most politicians like Obama and even the 100% Black American ones will continue to ignore Black Americans.. They know that Black Americans are splintered and fragmented with no home base. They know that they can ignore you and what can you do about it? Nothing, aside from complain. No, they won’t ignore certain other groups who are lots more cohesive. Those people in other groups know they can count on the families and communities in their group to come together fast to mount pressure against those politicians.

    Like


  151. @ Jorbia

    I have no doubt that you’re right about your parents were hard-working folks determined to have a better life.

    What I’m saying (and I’ll make it brief) is in a SYSTEM that relies on human bondage and poverty (which is what capitalism is), there was NEVER any intention of eliminating poverty, especially black poverty.

    That was a the beauty of the SCAM. To pretend to throw money at a problem you never intended to solve. Just like collecting donations for Katrina victims then funneling the money elsewhere

    Just like giving “foreign aid” to poor African nations then funneling that money right back into the pockets of white contractors like Main and Haliburton

    (check out ‘Confessions of an Economic Hitman’ by John Perkins)

    and then pointing the finger at the people you deceived, robbed, and cheated and saying, “See, we gave them money but they’re too backwards to improve themselves.”

    I hear what you’re saying but Jorbia, ALL of us rely on the government and on the system. We all eat food, drink water, use electrical power, public transportation via roads and vehicles, buy gasoline, etc.

    there is NO INDEPENDENT BLACK PERSON existing within the borders of the United States, and the few exceptions might appear to be people living on self-sustaining farms

    but at the flick of signature, they can AND have lost that black farmland via legal (but immoral) theft and via imminent domain

    that’s why it’s important that we understand the system of white supremacy because without that understanding you cannot solve a SINGLE problem you have over the long term

    thanks for dialoguing so respectfully and yes, we can cordially agree to disagree. It’s been a pleasure

    Like


  152. @ Legion

    Yes, I totally agree when you said:

    “In fact Malcolm would have seen through Obama long before Obama’s ascension through the vetting process.

    I’m alluding here to Obama’s career in Chicago. Something I have urged Abagond and the others to look at, I don’t know if they’ve done so but it’s a revealing exercise; the info is all publicly available news reports on the net. I’ve raised the issue here and here.”

    yes, yes, yes, once you examine Obama’s “rise” to power, it will become crystal clear that he was already CHOSEN and (S)ELECTED.

    I tried to share the overwhelming evidence in 2007 and 2008 but was largely ignored.

    of course, he is just the face on white power and will be the scapegoat when all the things that are planned actually happen

    then, I suspect, he may become the most hated man on the planet, and all black people, by default, will be blamed

    that is his real job

    as president, to take the fall for the crimes of the white global elite.

    Like


  153. @ Kwamla

    I agree, the goal is NOT to become like white people, who are some of the MOST unhappy, spiritually sick people on the planet

    otherwise, why would you create and enjoy creating so much human misery?

    Our goal should be to eliminate injustice, eliminate the system of white supremacy and to

    create a system of JUSTICE where no one is mistreated and the people who need the most help GET the most help (a phrase I borrowed from Mr. Neely Fuller, Jr.)

    That is the ideal world

    a world of peace where no one need go hungry or homeless

    not a world where everybody has a freaking Land Rover, a microwave, IPad, and a bunch of junk we really don’t need, that doesn’t really make us happier.

    and have to pop pills, drink booze, and visit a therapist to get thru the day

    and that I think, Kwamla, is the major problem with anti-blackness and blaming other black people

    It’s a (futile) attempt by victims to mimic the same victimizers who put you in that bad position in the first place so you can be in a position to mistreat someone less powerful than you are

    we have to raise our goals and sights a lot higher than that

    Like


  154. @ satanforce

    Am currently watching the video

    thanks for posting it!

    Like


  155. @TrojanPam
    Well said. Sad to say but this White supremacy system is still hurting poor minorities.

    Plus we do need to get rid of the White supremacy system for good and elimate poverty. I loved your statement!

    Like


  156. @ Adeen

    I agree, and would add that it hurts ALL non-whites regardless of income and education because that system is based on devaluing anyone who is NOT white

    Just ask President and First Lady Obama (and all the racist barbs they endure DESPITE holding the so-called highest office in the land!)

    There are enough resources (food, water, land, etc) for every single living creature on this planet IF less than 9% (white) weren’t hogging 90% of the planet’s resources

    Mother Nature (the Universe + God) are supreme and she/he makes NO mistakes in determining who and how many should be here

    it is only arrogant humans who think they know best

    Any life BORN on the planet earth is by Grand Design and was MEANT to her here.

    white supremacist “population explosion” propaganda notwithstanding

    Like


  157. @Adeen
    “President Obama is a Blackface on White opinions and ideas. No wonder he disowned his pastor, Reverend Jeremiah Wright. To me, that wasn’t right because I believe Reverend Jeremiah Wright is a very wise and honest man. He wanted to please the White media and audience and get elected that year.”
    You really nailed it with that statement! The quickest way to get elected is to be not be seen as a “black” President. Obama knew full well what he was doing. This guy does nothing for our people because we demand nothing for our votes. He knew he would get the votes regardless. Hispanics have an agenda,homosexuals have an agenda as well. Where is our agenda?? *crickets*

    Like


  158. @TrojanPam

    “There are enough resources (food, water, land, etc) for every single living creature on this planet IF less than 9% (white) weren’t hogging 90% of the planet’s resources”
    I hear what you’re saying sis. But you know I keep hearing a lot of talk about how the planet needs to be depopulated. Seems like its always talk of people of color that need to disappear from the planet. However,I think if those who are hogging most of the resources were to depopulate,maybe the rest of the starving people could eat better.lol Just a thought.

    Like


  159. It is misinformation to point exclusively to the ‘whiteness’ of this 9%. Yeah, a lot of them may be white, that’s an outgrowth of racism from earlier in history. The important thing now is to counter capitalism and corporations. Democracy isn’t just for social issues, democracy should be extended to the functioning of finance and economics too. “Capitalist democracy” makes as much sense as “Adulterous marriage.” The two parts in each of those constructs are antithetical to the other part. One part is always, just by it’s nature, seeking to destroy the other part.

    Like


  160. @ Legion

    Here is where we must agree to disagree.

    When I speak of that 9% white minority that controls the majority of the planet’s resources, i don’t need to break that “white minority” down into its smallest parts

    That’s where confusion can easily break out and people wind up going in all different directions debating semantics

    My premise is that we live under a GLOBAL system of white supremacy and even if all those white people are not so-called “pure white” they are ALL in favor of keeping that system of white domination in place

    those white people are CLASSIFIED as white people by the only people who can determine who is white and who is not — the white supremacists.

    which means they are treated as white even though in reality white is a made up identity whose only purpose is to mistreat people on the basis of “color”

    I agree that there is no such animal as a “capitalist democracy” and would go further and say that a democracy cannot exist where there is racism because a democracy means all people are equal under the law

    White supremacy is the BASIS of the global capitalist (oligarchy) governments here and abroad.

    that’s why I don’t focus on political parties and terms like “capitalism, socialism, communism, democracy (which doesn’t exist anywhere on earth)

    and focus instead on the fundamental root of the problem

    racism/white supremacy

    Like


  161. @ Kushite Prince

    The only people that talk about “population explosion” are white people

    because they are experiencing an epidemic of infertility and are being out-populated by non-white people.

    Also I believe white supremacy is such an unjust system that it is on the verge of self-destruction

    meaning a shrinking white population will have increasing difficulty in controlling an increasing non-white population

    and that explains the reason for all the genocidal strategies (war, disease, famine) that is being manufactured by this white minority.

    I think Mother Nature (God + the Universe) recognize the real problem and are working that out in their own good time.

    Like


  162. @ All

    When I say black people are a totally dependent population some people resist that notion because it is demoralizing and makes us sound like a helpless and inferior people — which I do not believe for one second.

    so please bear with me while I create an analogy to our condition as black people that is the DIRECT RESULT of the TransAtlantic Slave Holocaust and 500 years of systemic racism that followed

    The analogy:

    A man with two normal legs is shot by another man and loses his right leg

    As a result the injured man is unable to do the things he used to do but the man refuses to admit that he only has one leg because that thought demoralizes him

    so he keeps pretending he has two good legs because that makes him feel normal and equal to the man who shot him

    BUT when he tries to walk — pretending he has two legs — he falls down

    Then the day comes where he takes an honest inventory of his condition and admits that his right leg is gone

    and decides that even with that right leg missing he can learn to walk again.

    Now that he has faced the TRUTH, he can stop blaming himself because he knows it is NOT HIS FAULT that he has been robbed of his leg

    and will stop feeling inferior, be able to heal, and learn how to walk again.

    Like


  163. That is a useful analogy , although .. abit cumbersome for me to add to , but I’ll attempt … lets say that this (black) man “has” two legs , but one has been maimed , so he essentially as you posited , has only the use of one . He will then have to rely on (white) medicine for his recovery … (black Dr.’s make up an extremely small percentage of the total) . Hypothetically , if we were to sybolically offer this same procedure for the rest of black america(we all have one broken leg) , what kind of push-back can we expect from white supremacy when its realized that their lead is getting smaller?? aka “the neighborhood is beginning to tip”

    Like


  164. @ Dave

    An injured person should NEVER rely on the person who injured him to heal him

    AND that’s the mistake that black people have made and continue to make

    asking white people to “heal us” when they are so sick themselves

    The healing I’m referring to is NOT based on material things or Western medicine

    Plenty of black people have access to material things and still have not healed

    There are many black people who have “good jobs” and beautiful homes and cars and wear Armani, Gucci, Dolce and Gabbana, but are still sick with self-hatred

    The broken leg is just a metaphor for a broken mind and spirit, where our faith in ourselves and each other has been shattered

    I’m talking about those intangible things that do not cost money;

    among them knowledge of SELF, respect for SELF, and knowledge of one’s ENEMIES.

    “If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle” ― Sun Tzu, The Art of War,

    Dave, I believe this is more a SPIRITUAL WAR than a WAR of material weapons.

    That is why our enemies taught us to worship a white Jesus and a white God, and why they disconnected us from our culture, religion, history, and sense of self

    If none of that was important, why do it?

    Slavery has always existed but slaves were often allowed to practice their religions, eat their native foods, speak their native languages, and sometimes even give their children their last names.

    In no other time was slavery about destroying the culture of the slaves. ONLY during the TransAtlantic Slave Trade did the slave-owners focus on the psychological destruction of their slaves

    White supremacy is first and foremost a MIND GAME, which requires that its victims be mentally and psychologically subjugated

    because a man who is not MENTALLY CRIPPLED can and will eventually overcome his physical chains

    but once you chain a man’s mind, he will always be your SLAVE.

    Like


  165. @ Dave

    Sorry I overlooked the last part of your response when you said:

    “Hypothetically , if we were to sybolically offer this same procedure for the rest of black america(we all have one broken leg) , what kind of push-back can we expect from white supremacy when its realized that their lead is getting smaller?”

    Of course there will be push-back BUT if their goal is to destroy us – eventually we’ll have to either stand and fight OR die on our knees

    this is the kind of confrontation that blacks fear the most — having to confront the real enemy — and admitting that IT IS NOT US

    which means we’ll have to stop taking the safe, easy way and stop blaming each other for what was DONE to us

    of course, freedom has a price, a heavy price

    but so does accepting your lifetime and your children’s, and grandchildren inheriting your enslavement.

    in the meantime, we can

    ARM ourselves MENTALLY and HISTORICALLY

    stop worshiping FALSE (white) Gods

    stop “consorting” with the enemy (having sex and breeding)

    stop mistreating other black people

    stop worshiping and rewarding people for looking more white than black

    stop supporting entertainers who degrade other black people (like making fun of black features, black males playing buffoonery roles, black females playing white men’s whores, and all the madness white hollywood calls ‘black entertainment’

    try to support black-owned businesses and start one of your own

    stop giving away the shop — buying fried fish and fried hairstyles from Arabs

    stop trying to win “white favor” by tricking on, mistreating, and talking bad about other black people with white people

    NONE of the above costs money and is NOT even dangerous

    let’s see if we have the courage to do at least that much

    Like


  166. “…I believe this is more a SPIRITUAL WAR than a WAR of material weapons.

    That is why our enemies taught us to worship a white Jesus and a white God, and why they disconnected us from our culture, religion, history, and sense of self…”

    It always was and still is. This is first part of our own individual WAKING UP process which can only begin with each individual self.

    @ TrojanPam

    I’ve enjoyed reading your commentaries you’ve made some excellent and insightful contributions! Many of which I would find hard to disagree with…

    Like


  167. I don’t think I could have made this comment any clearer myself.!

    So it is worth repeating particularly for people who seek to continually evade or ignore this crucial distinction when stressing the urgency of building Black families and communities. . . …

    https://abagond.wordpress.com/2013/02/13/is-obama-a-rented-negro/#comment-160803

    Like


  168. In a word, yes.

    Like


  169. @Trojam
    Well said. You are right
    @All
    I am a young Black woman of about eighteen years old and I have noticed that our president, President Obama hasn’t done enough for Blacks in this country or America at large. Whenever I express my disapproval of President Obama’s way of handling this country, I get told that I am a sellout by my own Black people online and even by my own mother! President Obama is NOT superman. He is an human being. I didn’t realize President Obama was a rented Negro until I read this article. Abagond, this is a well written article and I liked it. Yes, President Obama is a ”rented Negro” despite the fact that he doesn’t appear like the full blown sellout Uncle Tom, Herman Cain, who would side with his allies of racist White Republicans over his own Black people.

    Like


  170. THINK about former congresswoman Cynthia McKinney!

    She was anything but a rented negro. Witness how her political career as a representative nose dived after she took on Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and the neocon cartel in open congressional hearings about a myriad of misdeeds regarding civilian contractors improprieties that were tied to W. (and daddy) Bush’s clear violation of U.S. law.

    In order to remain (last) in one’s political career, one MUST be compromised/RENTED in some form or fashion. If an individual can’t/won’t be corrupted, they’ll get GOT! …aka dealt with.

    No one functions in America’s political system without the consent and blessings of the super elite. Even if your plane doesn’t crash, or you’re not “suicided” they have a thousand other ways of taking care of PROBLEMATIC people.

    The system is thoroughly corrupt.

    Like


  171. @TrojanPam

    and focus instead on the fundamental root of the problem

    racism/white supremacy

    Pam, do not think me pedantic, I’m asking the following because it’s important to know what you meant. The problem of what exactly?

    Like


  172. @Kwamla–

    for people who seek to continually evade or ignore this crucial distinction when stressing the urgency of building Black families and communities. . . …

    Since I’m the one on here who stressed the urgency of building Black families and communities, I know this is aimed at me. I wonder why you’re not able to say my name. I knew you were going to come back and take a jab at me.

    This is one reason why Blacks can’t work together. It’s because Blacks like you can’t stand it when other Blacks disagree with them. So you keep picking and picking at them. Why can’t Black people just agree to disagree and leave each other alone? Plain and simple.

    While you’re co-signing the spiritual war, someone has to feed your “material” body. Commenters here are complaining about lack of jobs. Jobs feed “material” bodies, not spiritual bodies. Why don’t you just go and live on the spiritual plane? You wouldn’t have to worry about global white supremacy or anything else then.

    Some of us know we can’t survive off Mother Theresa’s ideals. At the end of the day, I know I need food, clothing, and shelter every day for my “material” body.

    Black men who don’t see the urgency in building Black families and communities need to stay away from Black American women.

    Like


  173. @ Legion

    I would never accuse you of being “pedantic” (since I had to look the word up first :-)

    just for info sake, pedantic means “…marked by a narrow, often tiresome focus…”

    the problem I’m speaking of is black dysfunction on all levels which includes

    400 years of chattel slavery

    stolen black farmland

    gross economic exploitation

    unequal and inferior schools

    manufactured black crime

    drugs & alcohol

    sterilization of black females which is STILL happening today

    the AIDS and HIV epidemic (which by the way is NOT A SEXUALLY TRANSMITTED DISEASE)

    Medical experimentation on black people (yes, it is happening)

    the gross sexual molestation of black children (the Penn State/Sandusky scandal – most of the boys were BLACK)

    War on drugs = war on black people = mass incarceration of black people

    lack of healthy food & clean water

    discrimination in home loans, including red-lining and predatory home and auto loans

    gentrification and racial dislocation to prevent blacks from passing along 2nd-generation homes and creating stable communities

    inadequate medical services

    no justice under the law

    unequal and unjust police protection

    police brutality

    dysfunctional black male/black female relationships DUE to the destruction of the black family during slavery

    degrading images in entertainment that brain-trash black people

    confusion resulting from following a slave religion and a white God/Jesus

    a hatred for self and one’s skin and hair and features

    contempt for other black people because they are black
    lack of knowledge of who we are and where we came from

    —–

    ALL the above is happening because of the system of racism/white supremacy

    no doubt about it

    Like


  174. @ Trjan Pam : Thank You for your comments. I’ve learned so much from you. Especially when you are dialouging with DOAN. I will be listening to the C.O.W.S. from now on. I have adapted the word urban into my lexicon. But i now understand what code words mean now. Thank You for this. will be purchasing Neely Fuller’s book and going to your website as well. Thank you for your knowledge of the evil system called white supremacy. Thank You Abagond for your knowledge as well.

    Like


  175. @ Matari

    who said: “THINK about former congresswoman Cynthia McKinney! She was anything but a rented negro. Witness how her political career as a representative nose dived after she took on Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and the neocon cartel in open congressional hearings.”

    —-
    I agree!

    She was the one who called for Congressional hearings on Katrina and spoke up on many issues that the “Black Caucus” wouldn’t touch

    which is why I voted for Congresswoman McKinney in the 2008 Presidential election when she ran as the Green Party candidate

    Not because I thought she could win but to BREAK away from the fraudulent Democratic/Republican ONE PARTY con games

    A litmus test for ALL politicians — especially black politicians — should be

    Anyone who get rewarded and praised and elevated to high office has ALREADY been compromised and CANNOT BE TRUSTED

    Anyone who gets maligned and attacked and/or killed is usually working AGAINST the system and working FOR the people.

    I also agree with you completely when you said:

    “The system is thoroughly corrupt.”

    Like


  176. @ Kwamla

    Likewise, I have enjoyed dialoguing with you and reading your insightful commentary

    In fact, I have enjoyed dialoguing with all of you — even when we agree to disagree!

    Like


  177. @ Adeen

    I congratulate you on taking a stand at your age. We need more young people like you are seeking information and trying to find truth.

    I hope this excellent blog has helped you do that.

    I would also like to post the links to my sites (with Abagond’s permission) — http://theblackcodefiles.com and http://racismws.com

    Sometime in March I’ll be starting a free course called “Counter-Racism Boot Camp’ — so please check me out.

    Like


  178. @ mary burrell

    I have learned so much from listening to Mr. Neely Fuller, Jr., Dr. Frances C. Welsing, and the COWS internet radio program.

    and highly recommend them for anyone who wants to understand what ails black people collectively and find ways to end our suffering.

    I owe them a HUGE debt of gratitude

    Like


  179. @TrojanPam

    “Also I believe white supremacy is such an unjust system that it is on the verge of self-destruction

    meaning a shrinking white population will have increasing difficulty in controlling an increasing non-white population”
    I think this is their biggest fear. Being able to control the masses is very important to maintaining power. However, this control is done by deception,half-truths and a distortion of reality. Racism itself is not based in reality anyway. A system based on falsehood and lies will always crumble. If you had told the Romans at their height of power that they would fall—they would have laughed at you. This country will have the same fate. I also believe in karma,so knowing that this power comes from stolen goods—you can imagine what the fall will look like.

    Like


  180. Trojan Pam,

    Such insightful comments! We need more like you around these parts.

    I hope you won’t make yourself scarce after this.

    Like


  181. @ Kushite Prince

    Unfortunately, a shrinking white population makes that population MORE not LESS dangerous, because fear breeds aggression.

    for example.

    ———

    On November 17th, 2008, Zbignew Brzezinski, a New World Order architect and a founder of the Rockefeller-controlled Trilateral Commission, addressed Chatham House, (the British counterpart of the American Council on Foreign Relations) and said:

    “…in early times, it was …literally it was easier to control a million people than physically to kill a million people. Today, it is infinitely easier to to kill a million people than to control a million people….”

    —-

    Supposedly, Zbignew Brzezinski is a SENIOR OBAMA ADMINISTRATION ADVISOR.

    —-

    Another statement made by Zbignew Brzezinski more than twenty-five years ago in a book by Brzezinski which he wrote while a professor at Columbia University:

    “Political strategists are tempted to exploit research on the brain and human behavior. Geophysicist Gordon J.F. MacDonald, a specialist in problems of warfare, says accurately-timed, artificially-excited electronic strokes could lead to a pattern of oscillations that produce relatively high power levels over certain regions of the earth …

    in this way one could develop a system that would seriously impair the brain performance of very large populations in selected regions over an extended period”

    ” … no matter how deeply disturbing the thought of using the environment to manipulate behavior for national advantages, to some, the technology permitting such use will very probably develop within the next few decades.”

    ——

    The statement above was made MORE THAN 25 YEARS AGO

    I have watched periodic erratic behavior in impoverished black communities, almost like people have temporarily lost their minds, become aggressive and striking out at one another and then strangely calming down…

    it makes one wonder what is triggering some of these anti-social behaviors other than living in a economic/poltical/nutritional pressure cooker where the heat is gradually being increased under the pot.

    ——————

    THIS is why I will say and continue to say WE MUST EDUCATED ourselves about the system of white supremacy, and all their various TROJAN HORSES in for the form of

    entertainment
    materialism
    integration
    “first blacks”
    sexual deviancy

    Otherwise it is futile to talk about defeating it

    Like


  182. @ Fiamma

    Thank you for making me feel welcome —

    And thank you, Abagond, for tolerating my long posts!

    Like


  183. @Jorbia

    Kwamla–
    for people who seek to continually evade or ignore this crucial distinction when stressing the urgency of building Black families and communities. . . …

    Jorbia-
    Since I’m the one on here who stressed the urgency of building Black families and communities, I know this is aimed at me. I wonder why you’re not able to say my name. I knew you were going to come back and take a jab at me.

    You might have noticed Jorbia I DID single you out on my first comment here when I made this connection. However, I’ve read many of your previous exchanges with other commentators here before and believe you can be prone to taking repeated references as a form of personal attack. This I regard as a deflection and has never been my intention.

    But there is another reason I chose not to associate my comments with just you personally again this time. And that is your views (regardless of whether I agree with them or not) are also shared by others here too. Some of whom have expressed their support for you.

    You may see this as an either or situation: We grow economically or we grow spiritually as a people. I don’t!… I see it as both!

    But we can’t do one without the other. This is the plain and simple truth and you are by no means the first to have advocated the economic argument before.

    The Big Elephant in the room is WHITE SUPREMACY and try as we might we simply cannot ignore or not plan for its effects.

    One approach focuses solely on building individuals the other on building communities. The dilemma for you is trying to do one before or without the other. I would argue we can’t.! You would argue we can!

    Well…Good luck to you! We can always agree to disagree. Just don’t expect to continually spout this untenable view point unchallenged from time to time…!

    Like


  184. “You may see this as an either or situation: We grow economically or we grow spiritually as a people. I don’t!… I see it as both! ”

    ^^^^^^^^
    Absolutely Kwamla!

    If we don’t grow further SPIRITUALLY as individuals and as a people while endeavoring to grow economically/materially we will only wind up emulating the ogreish ways of whiteness… the most evil entity/system on this globe. We were not created or formed to live or act as they do. An increasing number of us are WAKING UP to this awareness …

    Like


  185. I love how posters here are constantly insutling “other humans beings” Mulatos, Bi-racial, White, Latinos, Asians, Jews … whatever word you want to use to classify that you’re not one and the same, your different … and then demand to be respected.

    “White people are the most Evil, Corrupt, Brutish … whatever word you want to describe here”

    But historically speaking … Africa did the first enslaving. Which means Blacks were the first Slave owners. Africa was the first to sell other human beings for profit. Which means for thousands of years under African rule, Blacks benefitted from the opression bestowed upon other human beings.

    Ramses a Pharoh from Egypt, Africa … kept which group of people bounded in chains, slaving to build an empire. Africans enslaved Jews.

    Mother Africa ruled this planet for thousands and thousands of years. And ya’ll are complaining about the last 500 years, while you forget about all the otricities committed for thousands of years before 1492.

    The page has shown how many posters … Consider themselves more Superior over anyone considered mixed/Bi-Racial etc. … As if African Americans are pure blooded. Pure what?? African, European and Red Indian … and you think your better than Bi-Racially mixed Latinos???

    I love how many complain of lost cultures … Really? Funny we know more about Ancient African civilizations because they were studied for thousands of years. People if they were interested could actually learn how to speak Eygptian, know the ancient history of Ethiopia … where as we don’t know the history of the ancient cutultures of the Americas … and that history occured sooner than Eygptian history … Very little is known about the Incas, the Mayans, the Aztecs and that just 3 dominant cultures that had been completely desimated by Europeans. They didn’t study these cultures, they called them savages and heathens … kind of like the Ancient Africans and how they viewed Europeans as backward savages.

    History is a pendulum … Africa ruled for thousands of years and enslaved Jews and built civilizations on their backs … from my looking glass … sounds like Karma. What goes around, comes around.

    Obama may or may not be rented … he was never meant to be the Savior, he was meant to inspire to be better than a high school drop out, better than an athlete with a shelf life of a few years, better than drug dealer with no life ambition but to hang on the corner, better than just waiting to be saved by someone else!!

    The Powers that Be … would like all people of color NOT to know their history. NOT to know WE were ONCE rulers. NOT to know that WE have a History to be Proud of!!!

    But hey … let’s just be crabs in a barrell and pull everyone back down. Don’t rise above, stay stagnate … and blame the white guy, that you decided to drop out of school, work dead end jobs, and sell drugs to subsidize our income.

    Yep it’s that White man’s fault, he made me feel really bad about myself, so I decided to drop out of society and become … nothing.

    OR we accept that history is screwed up, but acknowledge that our future doesn’t have to be!!!

    Like


  186. @Kwamla–

    believe you can be prone to taking repeated references as a form of personal attack. This I regard as a deflection and has never been my intention.

    Oh, so we’re now back to what you believe. Just because you believe something doesn’t make it true. Anyone who has followed these threads know that you’re talking about me. Be straightforward about that and admit it. Don’t try to dodge. I can see you. :-)

    But there is another reason I chose not to associate my comments with just you personally again this time. And that is your views (regardless of whether I agree with them or not) are also shared by others here too. Some of whom have expressed their support for you.

    Well, let this be a warning to those others who may agree with me. Don’t agree with Jorbia!

    You may see this as an either or situation: We grow economically or we grow spiritually as a people. I don’t!… I see it as both!

    Once again, your statement is based on how you “think” I may see something. I take exception to that because you are trying to mischaracterize me by putting words in my mouth based solely on what you “think” I’m saying. Then you proceed to argue against what you think.

    However, I would bet that that spiritual growth has at least 5,000 different meanings.

    I was the one in these threads who put forth that I believe that Blacks Americans should put great effort towards developing individuals from the inside out with strong emphasis on specific values. This would start at birth and continue inside families. That’s one reason I put great emphasis on family building.Along with that, I put forth the emphasis on community building. A solid community is based on having a certain amount of solid families.

    But we can’t do one without the other.

    But some come before others. The world is not new. Most people care about safety, food, and shelter long before they care about any kind of spiritual growth.

    This is the plain and simple truth and you are by no means the first to have advocated the economic argument before.

    I never said I was the first one. It was others here who asked me for my ideas on making money, jobs, and business in the Black community. On that subject, I would say that while money alone doesn’t make a person happy,lack of money definitely causes a lot of misery.

    The Big Elephant in the room is WHITE SUPREMACY

    As I said, this has been said about 50 quadrillion times.

    One approach focuses solely on building individuals the other on building communities.

    I’ve proposed BOTH. Careful reading of my comments show that.

    The dilemma for you is trying to do one before or without the other.

    No, this must be your dilemma since I’ve proposed BOTH.

    I would argue we can’t.! You would argue we can!

    Please don’t try to tell me what I would argue since I’ve proposed BOTH. I can see I need to repeat things to you since you can’t leave my views alone. Some needs must be met before others. The world is not new. You may be different, but most people care about safety, food, and shelter first. Not spiritual growth. Someone mentioned that many Black Americans are hungry for food.

    Just admit that there’s something about my views you can’t understand. Sorry, I don’t have time to write out my entire platform and give you a map. Besides, I’m not trying to get votes. I will repeat: I was the one in these threads who put forth that Blacks Americans should put their greatest effort towards developing individuals from the inside out. This would start at birth and continue inside families. That’s one reason I put great emphasis on family building. Along with that, I put forth the emphasis on community building, but that’s based on more solid families. Family and community building are the foundation.

    I even suggested that some of you Black men create and implement some programs for developing other Black males because males who are past a certain age don’t want to and won’t listen to women telling them what to do.

    Well…Good luck to you! We can always agree to disagree. Just don’t expect to continually spout this untenable view point unchallenged from time to time…

    Your views may be untenable to me too, but the difference is that my views seem to bother you. I assure you I’m not trying to interfere with your spiritual growth.

    Like


  187. @TrojanPam

    You said the problem is “black dysfunction” (then gave, in your opinion, a list of examples of black dysfunction). You say “black dysfunction” comes from “white supremacy”.

    Please define both terms.

    Like


  188. “stop “consorting” with the enemy (having sex and breeding”

    Trojanpam, most of the points you have been making ring true, but the one above takes many of your excellent points and taints them with this agenda that will come to bite you in the rear in 20 years

    Just go to the BWE thread and see why this agenda, put forth in the late 60s, only creates division and tension among black people today

    And, the really racist whites, who hate black people and dont want to be around them, are screaming with joy and agreement…

    Like


  189. @ Legion

    without taking up too much time, here’s my definitions of “white supremacy”:

    a GLOBAL social, economic, educational, legal, and political system based on the belief that whites are superior to non-whites and should receive privileges and benefits that non-whites do not receive in ALL NINE areas of human activity:

    (1) economics, (2) education, (3) entertainment, (4) labor, (5) law, (6) politics, (7) religion, (8) sex, and (9) war.

    My definition of black dysfunction is the the abnormal behaviors BORNE out of the abnormal conditions forced upon ALL black people collectively ALL over the U.S. BEGINNING with 400 years of chattel slavery

    Another definition was given by the late and great Dr. Bobby Wright, who coined the term “mentacide” which is defined as:

    “The deliberate and systematic destruction of a group’s mind with the ultimate objective being the complete extermination of the group.”

    Scholar/author Mwalimu K. Bomani Baruti’s explanation:

    “When you willingly think and act out of someone else’s interpretation of reality to their benefit and against your surival. It is a state of subtle insanity, which has come to characterize (more and more) Africans globally.”

    ———

    That being said, I’ll list THREE major areas of black dysfunction AKA “mentacide” — IMO:

    1. ECONOMICS
    2. SEX
    3. RELIGION
    ———

    1. ECONOMICS

    For example

    NOT having a “black” business or economic base (unlike most white and non-white communities) and NOT seeing that as a MAJOR, life-threatening problem

    Because that means we are totally dependent on others for basic necessities, like food, water, electricity, entertainment, infrastructure, emergency assistance (like police and fire), clothing, housing, healthcare, transportation, and education

    Try to imagine you (as a black person living in a black community) woke up tomorrow and there were NO white, Asian, Hispanic, Indian, or Arab merchants in our communities,

    where would we shop, eat, buy gas, go to a clinic, cash a check, or buy fast foods?

    I’ve asked other black people that same question. and usually get either one of the following:

    (( shrugging shoulders ))

    (( puzzled look like why am I asking that question ))

    “I’d get in my car and go to “another community”

    “Wouldn’t bother me because I don’t shop in the “ghetto” anyway”

    and one out of four people might say, “That’s terrible” and one of eight might say, “We should do something about that.”

    NOW

    THAT IS A MAJOR EXAMPLE OF BLACK DYSFUNCTION

    there are few exceptions (like black owned, independent schools and black farmers, but they are in the vast minority)

    —-

    so this post won’t be too long, I’ll break my response up in two more parts

    Like


  190. A second area of black dysfunction AKA “mentacide

    2. SEX (and male/female relationships)

    a. Black people DELIBERATELY choosing white sexual/romantic partners OVER black sexual/romantic partners BECAUSE whites are “better” at this and that,

    forgetting that THEY THEMSELVES ARE BLACK and believing their behavior is NOT a REFLECTION of their OWN SELF-HATRED and SELF-CONTEMPT
    —–

    b. black people demonizing and degrading the PHYSICAL ATTRIBUTES of other black people, preferring “white-looking” hair and features

    forgetting that THEY THEMSELVES ARE BLACK and believing their behavior is NOT a REFLECTION of their OWN SELF-HATRED and SELF-CONTEMPT
    —-

    c. UPLIFTING whites as sexual/romantic partners PUBLICLY and giving interviews to the white media about how they do “not date blacks”

    (who the H else does that????)

    forgetting that THEY THEMSELVES ARE BLACK and believing their behavior NOT a REFLECTION of their OWN SELF-HATRED and SELF-CONTEMPT

    d. black females raising 70% of their babies ALONE while the rates of so-called blacks dating and marrying whites is at it’s highest level especially for black males (many of who have BLACK CHILDREN WITH WHITE FEMALES)

    forgetting that THEY THEMSELVES ARE BLACK and believing their behavior NOT a REFLECTION of their OWN SELF-HATRED and SELF-CONTEMPT and if the black female is “inferior” then they, too, are inferior because they CAME from a black female

    and the same is true for black females who came from a black male

    —-

    e. blacks “breeding with whites to have “prettier, lighter, long-haired” children that DO NOT LOOK LIKE THEM is total mentacide and black dysfunction and signs of a person who has been poisoned against themselves to the NTH degree.

    No one thinks they are “ugly” until someone with a much uglier spirit TELLS them they are ugly

    —-

    f. talking BLACK and sleeping WHITE — which REWARDS whites for practicing racism — YET expecting RACISM to “go away” by “attacking” it in the bedroom

    clearly forgetting (or never knowing) that sex between blacks and whites in a white supremacy society is NOTHING NEW and has been happening since slavery

    and actually LENGTHENS and STRENGTHENS the system of white supremacy because sex between blacks and whites CONFUSES black people and keeps them (us) in a state of denial and weakens our black collective

    by a deliberate strategy of DIVIDE AND CONQUER

    BECAUSE

    You cannot lay down with white supremacy at night and get up in the morning and fight it

    which is why the white media uses “entertainment” (programming) to push the idea that blacks should be having sex with whites via the many reality shows, TV shows, and movies that are being made today.

    because that SAME TACTIC has been used on EVERY non-white population that whites have conquered, including the Aboriginals in Australia, and the Native Americans in North America, whose populations are NOW less than 10% of what they used to be

    aka PSYCHOLOGICAL AND GENETIC SUICIDE

    —-

    Sleeping with your enemies, rejecting your own people, and expecting to heal or be free of racism

    is a MAJOR FORM OF PSYCHOLOGICAL/SEXUAL BLACK DYSFUNCTION

    IMO

    Like


  191. A third area of black dysfunction AKA “mentacide (and the last I’ll post here)

    3. RELIGION

    I’ll defer to a wiser head than my own and give his explanation:

    “So you call for the same God he calls for. When he’s putting a rope around your neck, you call for God and he calls for God. And you wonder why the one you call on never answers you.” — Malcolm X

    from what I’ve seen (and I was forced to attend church as a child and never really “got it)

    we sit in these churches that mainly breed passivity, that REFUSE to talk about racism or the TRUE condition or ENEMY of black people

    and when you really examine what is going on in most black churches you don’t have to wonder why black churches get a pass from the white system

    OR why black “mega-preachers” (aka PIMPS) are given public platforms, book and movie deals, favors, and KUDOS from the white power structure

    or why there are so many more “black churches” than “black businesses”

    or HOW black churches can be effective in solving a SINGLE problem in their current state when there’s one on every corner of the “hood” and hell in between?

    or how the nation’s most religious people are also the most oppressed?

    maybe, it’s because we’re still practicing the SAME SLAVE RELIGION we were taught by our slave-owners to keep us psychologically enslaved, to worship a white Jesus and a white God aka the WHITE MAN

    No disrespect to anyone reading this, but I consider the practice of ANY and EVERY SLAVE TRADITION to be a MAJOR EXAMPLE of black dysfunction.

    sorry about posting so many posts!

    Like


  192. correction, PLEASE!

    Under A second area of black dysfunction AKA “mentacide

    2. SEX (and male/female relationships)

    i meant:

    d. black females raising 70% of their babies ALONE while the rates of so-called blacks dating and marrying whites is at it’s highest level especially for black males (many of who have BLACK CHILDREN WITH BLACK FEMALES)

    Like


  193. @ B. R.

    I’m not sure I understand your post

    or whether you agree or disagree with my point that we should NOT have sex with white people while the system of white supremacy exists

    please enhance…

    Like


  194. @TrojanPam–

    I mostly agree with what you say about interracial unions aside from this:

    and the same is true for black females who came from a black male

    Some Black American women are doing what you say, but some are not in those interracial unions because they think other men are better or lighter or any of the reasons you mentioned.

    Lots of Black American women want to get married, but Black American men don’t. I hope that the usual Blacks suspects won’t start talking about how there are plenty of Black men who want to get married.

    No woman can force a man to marry her. I’ve noticed that many Black American women will live with Black men and act wifely in every way, but he still won’t marry her.

    I guess I once expected to marry a Black man like my father, but things have changed. Since I’m one of those light women, I can tell when a Black American man likes me for my lightness. I don’t like that because I know something is wrong with him. Some light Black women don’t care about that as long as they get the man, but I do.

    Like


  195. Jorbia,

    Oh, so we’re now back to what you believe. Just because you believe something doesn’t make it true. Anyone who has followed these threads know that you’re talking about me. Be straightforward about that and admit it. Don’t try to dodge. I can see you. :-)

    I have news for you Jorbia…Just because you believe something does make it true! It makes it true for YOU as long as you believe it to be so.

    My last comment was directed entirely to you Jorbia…So what was I doding?

    Your view point is not that difficult for me to understand…. On the other hand… MINE for you is!

    White supremacy and the numerous issues it causes for African-Americans and Black people globally is an issue for me. But not such a big issue for you.

    I think Trojanpam is doing an excellent job here on breaking down why those numerous issues are so important for Black people growing spiritually and economically in our development. Again..not such a big issue for you

    Would you agree with BOTH statements I’ve just made here. Would I be wrong to characterise these as not an issue for you?

    Like


  196. @ Jorbia

    I hear you AND feel you,

    and have engaged in many (often bitter) debates about the differences between black males dating/marrying white females and black females dating/marrying white males.

    While I HATE to see black females sexually involved with white males, I do understand that some are driven out of loneliness to seek male companionship OUTSIDE the black pool of partners

    I would prefer to see these black females stay within the pool of non-white males rather than going “white”

    but I have heard the many sad stories from the younger females in my family, two of who have married white males, and how when they were attending college the handful of black males there wanted white girls.

    I have heard this over and over from young black females, and black fathers and mothers

    that many young black males now feel that a white female is a “step up” from a black female and this is due in part I believe to the WHITE MEDIA pushing this idea via rap videos (where black males are often surrounded by white females) and music “stars” like Kwanye West singing

    “He’ll leave your “ass” for a white girl.”

    to the cheers of the white audience

    movies like “Save the Last Dance (for a white girl), and “In the Mix” where Usher (a black male) puts his life on the line to save a white mobster’s daughter, and the Kim Kardashian trash shows, and Ice-T Loves Cocoa Puffs” (of course it would never be titled, “Cocoa Puffs Loves Her Some Black Ice-T”

    and all the many messages that program black males to protect, uplfit, and reward white females as the superior female

    like most Samuel Jackson, Morgan Freeman, Denzel Washington, movies

    which almost NEVER show black males protecting and rescuing black females

    and the increasing degraded images of black females, especially brown and dark skinned black females who are NEVER shown as ANYONE’s love interest

    that’s why our next two books are going to deal with this issue

    about the WAR White Hollywood is waging on the Black Mind

    Like


  197. IDK Trojan Pam:

    “a. Black people DELIBERATELY choosing white sexual/romantic partners OVER black sexual/romantic partners BECAUSE whites are “better” at this and that”

    How does this work for your argument .. reverse it … if White people think or want to be better than … so why would White people throughout history marry or have sex with people of darker complexions??? Are they suffering from Self hate too??

    Why only look at some facts and some parts of history, but conveniently ignore most of it. We have thousands of years of history, except your stuck on the past 500 years. When in fact the United States has barely been a country for more than 200 years.

    Life started in Africa, which means we were all descendants of Blacks, who they married other colors, or as a process of evolution got light, slanted eyes … not really sure how Darwinism works with the human body. We all started out Black, but somehow we have Asians, Whites, Arabs, Aboriginals, Indigenous people of the Americas … so what happened??? The first Africans out of Africa, hated Blacks and wanted to emulate who? Cause no other race existed back then. So … how do we explain people who are lighter in complexion, how did that happen?

    Throughout history, many people have been attracted by people that look different and not because they suffered self hate.

    And as a Bi-Racial woman, living in a Black community … I’ve watched how couples of all colors interact … and I will say, I understand why Black men choose to date other races. I’ve watch how Black Women demean men in Public, smack their sons in public, call them derogatory names … Someday, maybe Black Women will want to respect Black Men again. Maybe stop belittle, degenerate, emasculate men … maybe not so willing to have their hair and nails done every week, forcing many into illegal activities to subsidize the rest of life’s living expenses. I have heard WAY too many Black men justify why they won’t date Black women … except Black women are listening.

    The Powers That Be … want the in-fighting, Gender Separation, the economic separation of genders … just so that we can NOT face the truth, accept what the problems are and actually come up with a plan to help us, stop with this negative cut throat behavior.

    No one is Superior!!

    Like


  198. @ Jorbia

    I would also add that as black females, many of us are PART of the problem when we

    talk about “good hair” and “pretty eyes” to our black sons (and daughters)

    wear blond weaves and hair that looks artificial around our black sons (and daughters)

    put down other black females as “black and ugly” or “hair short as a finger snap” and other denigrating comments around our black sons (and daughters)

    and leave a lot of Victoria Secrets-type catalogs and white-female-oriented beauty magazines around the house for our black sons (and daughters) to see

    and fantasize about

    mistreat and disrespect other black females (which do a LOT of) in front of our black sons (and daughters)

    and disrespect our male partners or men in general in front of our black sons (and daughters)

    and especially allow the WHITE SUPREMACY TV to babysit (and brain-trash) our black sons (and daughters) so we wont have to spend time dialoguing with them

    instead of providing non-electronic games like BOOKS, puzzles, Tinker-toys, coloring books, building blocks, chemistry sets, and other games that keep children OCCUPIED CONSTRUCTIVELY for HOURS

    We — as black females, lovers, wives, and mothers — have a TREMENDOUS amount of work to do on ourselves as well.

    Like


  199. Correction: “I have heard WAY too many Black men justify why they won’t date Black women … except Black women are listening.” I meant ARE NOT LISTENING!!

    But hey apparently according to my dark and lighter brethren my opinion doesn’t matter … because my blood is diluted.

    Like


  200. @Kwamla–

    Again..not such a big issue for you

    Once again, you are inferring.

    Your view point is not that difficult for me to understand…. On the other hand… MINE for you is!

    Apparently, you must not be able to understand something about my views because you’re the one who keeps trying to interrogate me. Relax!

    I apparently am not able to break things down to your satisfaction the way Trojan Pam does,so why not just accept what she says and leave it at that. Or are you one of those males who tries to browbeat any woman until she agrees with you. Won’t work with me. Again: I’m not trying to get your vote.

    We should be able to disagree with each other without becoming disagreeable.

    Like


  201. @ stilettotreehugger

    The quickest answer to your response comes from the book, “The Interracial Con Game”

    http://racismws.com/the-interracial-con-game/

    —-

    Contrary to the “melting pot myth,” MORE interracial breeding between blacks and whites actually LENGTHENS and STRENGTHENS the reign of white supremacy, destroys black genetics, and reduces the overall black population –which are the main reasons the (white) entertainment industry promotes INTERRACIAL SEX for blacks.

    “The melting pot of the races began around the northern perimeter. The end result was always the same: The Blacks were pushed to the bottom of the social, economic and political ladder whenever the Asians (meaning whites) and their mulatto offspring gained control.

    This scheme of weakening the Blacks by turning their half-white brothers against them cannot be overemphasized because it began in the early times and it became the universal practice of whites, and is still one of the cornerstones in the edifice of white power…”

    — Chancellor Williams, “Destruction of Black Civilization — Chapter II: Ethiopia’sOldest Daughter: Egypt. pg. 61.”

    Also, I totally, totally disagree with your statement that “..the first Africans out of Africa, hated Blacks and wanted to emulate who?” That is a completely inaccurate statement and I’d like to see your reference links to support that statement.

    In fact,this FACT is more accurate as to what the FIRST Africans thought about their “blackness” (from the same book)

    “Contrary to the racist delusions of Hollywood moviemakers, Africans did not think the first Europeans were gods (or goddesses). Some Africans believed Europeans were white because they had been skinned alive.

    Others, like Olaudah Equiano, were terrified by the appearance of the
    white men who kidnapped him from his African village and brought him to
    the New World on a slave ship in 1756.

    After ten years of enslavement, Olaudah purchased his freedom and
    wrote his autobiography, describing the horrors of slavery, the cruelty of
    slave-owners, and how he fainted with fright the fi rst time he saw the “white
    men with horrible looks, red faces, and long hair.”

    Also this is MORE accurate as to existing beauty standards PRIOR to white colonization of African AND non-white people:

    “Old Chinese Views On Caucasians

    The text below is reprinted directly from the article, “Universal preference of
    whiteness over blackness” — courtesy of http://www.colorq.org

    “By traditional Chinese opera conventions, a black face is considered nobler. Actors wear masks that denote the character’s qualities. A predominantly black face indicates courage, righteousness, and incorruptibility.

    A predominantly white face indicates craftiness, deceit, and knavery.
    Ming Dynasty China records even state that Caucasians, especially
    blondes, are physically unattractive:

    “Huihui are shaggy with big noses, and Qipchags have light hair and blue eyes. Their appearance is vile and peculiar, so there are those (Chinese) who do not wish to marry them.”

    This distaste for blondes is a stark contrast to the worship of European
    standards of beauty so prevalent among modern Asians today.”

    According to Dr. Frances C. Welsing, whiteness is due to ALBINO-ISM, a genetic recessive DEFECT that came about due to a loss of melanin.

    There are too many theories regarding how the races evolved but even white “scientists” claim that Europeans are a HYBRID between Neanderthal and “man” (source: National Geographic)

    Who is that “man?” It can be no other man but the AFRICAN MAN, since he was already on the planet thousands of years before the first “European” walked the earth.

    Of course I cannot use a single blog to cover all parts of history and would not attempt to try that here.

    Unfortunately, your version of “history” is severely lacking and in fact, is more confusing than enlightening.

    I must be blunt here.

    Finally, your statement below explains everything about your post (to me):

    “And as a BI-RACIAL WOMAN, living in a Black community … I’ve watched how couples of all colors interact … and I will say, I understand why Black men choose to date other races. I’ve watch how Black Women demean men in Public, smack their sons in public, call them derogatory names … Someday, maybe Black Women will want to respect Black Men again.”

    you totally ignore that WHITE FEMALES AND WHITE MALES have treated the black male FAR WORSE FAR LONGER than any black female could ever do, so your explanation for some black males’ behavior falls short of your own logic,

    I also assume that you see yourself as a non-black female (I assumed this because you talk about (other) black females in the THIRD PERSON)

    serves as a CLEAR illustration (evidence) of what Chancellor Williams meant when he said:

    “This scheme of weakening the Blacks by turning their half-white brothers against them cannot be overemphasized because it began in the early times and it became the universal practice of whites, and is still one of the cornerstones in the edifice of white power…”

    — Chancellor Williams, “Destruction of Black Civilization — Chapter II: Ethiopia’sOldest Daughter: Egypt. pg. 61.”

    I doubt you and I will ever see eye to eye on this so let’s agree to disagree and move on…

    Like


  202. @TrojanPam–

    I would also add that as black females, many of us are PART of the problem when we

    talk about “good hair” and “pretty eyes” to our black sons (and daughters)

    I think some Black women think about hair and eyes this way because that’s what they see Black men flocking toward. It’s a fact of life around them. That’s like my Mom telling me that if I want to win the flower decorating contest, I need to put more purple flowers in the vase. I don’t think that these mothers have the knowledge and analyzing skills that you have.

    If a loss of the culture is the biggest part of this, as some have pointed out, then why put such a big part of this blame on the black females who at least try to stay and raise the children. Black mothers could also abandon black children just like their fathers. But when they don’t abandon their children or don’t teach their children the lost culture,they’re being punished for that because they’re the only parent there.

    Like


  203. @ Kwamla

    You are correct when you said:

    ‘We grow economically or we grow spiritually as a people…we can’t do one without the other. This is the plain and simple truth…”

    ABSOLUTELY agree

    A perfect example of WHY it is important to understand AND anticipate white supremacy is “Black Wall Street”

    (anyone who have never read about it needs to google it asap)

    where black people created an all-black town that had movie theaters, buses, libraries, schools, homes, stores, etc

    and this all black town clearly outdid the neighboring white towns,

    and this was accomplished by former slaves just a few DECADES after being emancipated (!!)

    which clearly shows that blacks were fully capable of building self-sustaining, independent infrastructures back then

    BUT despite their valiant efforts

    white supremacy destroyed that all black town and many others like it

    THAT is why black people can’t just “build” and “do” and pretend that the

    6000 lb white elephant is NOT in the room

    And that is why I say we MUST UNDERSTAND this system to overcome it.

    Like


  204. @TrojanPam–

    While I HATE to see black females sexually involved with white males, I do understand that some are driven out of loneliness to seek male companionship OUTSIDE the black pool of partners

    I’m not marrying a White male because I was driven out of loneliness and desperation to him or because I couldn’t get just any Black American man. I didn’t want just any man. The man I will marry happens to be a good man I love, who loves me and wants to build a family with me. That’s all I need.

    I’ve seen Black American women who do a lot more for a Black man than I would ever do, and he still doesn’t marry them or treat them right.

    Like


  205. Jorbia,

    I posed my last comment to you purposely to allow you (and anyone else) to see were we agree and disagree in our respective view points. I am doing this to demonstrate a more than just familiarity with the views you seek to espouse. But also to give you the opportunity to show where I might be wrong in my assessments.

    Perhaps you agree with Trojanpam in her elaborations? Perhaps you don’t.? Its not about whether you agree with my view or Trojanpam’s views. Its about YOU being clear and accountable for YOUR own views and the statements you make.

    Otherwise why continue to promote them in a public forum like this?

    “…We should be able to disagree with each other without becoming disagreeable…

    I understood this to be exactly what we’ve been doing here!

    Like


  206. I will humbly submit only a brief note to the discussion regarding light skin , dark skin , slant eyes(epicathic fold) etc. Modern man evolved in the Rift Valley area of Mother Africa , on the equator , resulting in the black skin , wide nose , thick lipped , tightly kinked hair , phenotype , within the past 150-200,000 years . Humanity has , henceforth moved and migrated out and away , relatively speaking , from its’ most direct contact with the sun , to more distant climes , in a relative sense . The human body adjusts to the climate , over generations and centuries .

    Like


  207. @ All

    Some food for thought:

    Dr. Frances Cress Welsing once said,

    that just before Nazi Germany acted upon the Jewish population

    Jews were had the HIGHEST level of interracial marriages

    (FYI Jews were killed because of their religion, they were killed because they were considered NON-WHITE)

    Like


  208. Correction: Epicanthic Fold

    Like


  209. Correction:

    FYI — Jews were NOT killed because of their religion,

    they were killed because they were considered NON-WHITE by people who WERE

    Like


  210. @TrojanPam–

    A perfect example of WHY it is important to understand AND anticipate white supremacy is “Black Wall Street”

    (anyone who have never read about it needs to google it asap)

    I certainly know about this and most of the other points you’ve raised, but my view might be broader. I think that in most endeavors, most individuals or groups will try to get rid of or reduce their competition if they can. It just so happens that Whites in America hated and had and have enormous power compared to Black Americans.

    Maybe because I’ve lived in other parts of the world, I don’t have a romanticized view about Black or African people or other groups. In some African countries, this same thing could easily have happened, but not because they hated Blackness. It’s not hard for people to find a reason to kill other people and take what they want. That’s why there is tribal warfare and ethnic strife in all parts of the world between people who even look the same.

    This is why some countries want and will spend any amount of money to get a nuclear weapon, as a deterrent, so that they can develop without being invaded. Other countries form alliances with strong partners who will defend them against attack.

    Like


  211. @ Jorbia

    Never intended to insinuate otherwise about you personally

    however, I have seen black females who have dated and/or married white males only to realize they had married a REFINED RACIST

    By refined, I mean someone who can present a different face of tolerance YET still believes that white is superior (white supremacy)

    YET appear to be a “nice” person

    These women often wind up being conflicted, confused, self-hating people because they did not understand how sex and racism are intertwined in white supremacy societies and mistakenly believed that a white person who would marry a black person

    could not possibly be a racist

    just like the black female who called Dr. Laura complaining about her “white husband” and his relatives making racist comments in her presence and how her “white husband” never took up for her

    or a friend whose black male cousin married a white female and confessed that his “white wive” and his offspring (who obviously believed they were “better” than their black father)

    often called this black male a “ni**er” to his face

    And this friend of mine said he had heard it with his own ears and asked the black male why he tolerated this and was told

    “Oh, they always call me that. It’s no big deal” (??)

    another black male said (and this video is on my site) that his “white mother” often told him not to “…act like a n**ger…”

    and another black male said that his “white girlfriend” wanted him to dress up as a slave so she could pretend to “…beat him, mistreat him, and call him a n**ger.”

    (i also have that video if anyone is interested in seeing it)

    I know of many black people who have married, dated, sexed with and bred with white people ONLY to find out that white person was a racist

    so I caution black females (and males) NOT to believe that the grass is whiter on the other side because eating it just might KILL you

    and your spirit

    IF black people do NOT understand white supremacy OR how it functions they will NOT understand what racism is AND how it is manifested in all its clever disguises

    Like


  212. correction

    and another black male said that his “white girlfriend” wanted him to grow a beard and have his hair long and nappy so she could pretend he was her slave

    and “…beat him, mistreat him, call him a n**ger”…”

    that’s real stuff

    Like


  213. Actually I talk about myself in 3rd person all the time and I classify myself as Human. As for my ethnic heritage … I’ll never be Black enough, I’ll never be White enough, Latinos can’t figure out how to categorize me and Asians rather lump me with all outsiders. So while I’ve been ostracized, I sit on the fence and watch how people regardless of skin color, racial makeup, or religious beliefs … find excuses to justify treating people like dirt.

    In regards to this comment “..the first Africans out of Africa, hated Blacks and wanted to emulate who?” I was asking a question … because at some point or another a African man OR woman, produced a child with someone that in turn created other racial categories. I find it hard to believe that person hated themselves or the color of their skin. I also find it hard to believe that all racial groups started out as a result of Mass Rape.

    I’m also generalizing as all others here generalize in the attempt to prove a point, while ignoring that human behavior is very multifaceted and difficult to explain. After all when Native Americans had tribal wars, they had no idea that Africa, Europe or Asia even existed … yet they fought over land, women and food. Pretty much the same commodities that had been fought over for thousands of years in Africa and around the world. Shelter/Sex/Sustenance the basic needs for life to continue.

    Prior to there being a European civilization … there were many great African civilizations and they considered Europeans as savages, because at the time, Europeans had no civilization and no products of interest to trade. I don’t know where you read that I wrote that the ancient cultures of Africa or Asia worshiped Europeans. I know Human history. Asian civilizations were created long before European nations … and back way back … neither Africans nor Asians respected or worshiped Europeans. So for thousands of years Africans and Asians ruled over Europeans … some how the story flipped, Europeans came into power and used the same principals that all other human groups did … degenerate people however possible to gain power and privilege above them.

    Racially mixed human beings, wasn’t a new creation from 500 years ago … humans have been mixing it up for thousands of years and never ever was it accepted. Because people of “pure blood” think their better than people of mixed blood.

    Human beings will find any reason, any justification to misuse and mistreat another group of people.

    We can talk about slavery, but why just the past 500 years? Because it’s convenient, don’t want to remind people that Africa enslaved people for thousands of years. It was an African ruler that released Hebrews from the bonds of slavery.

    It’s sad, always watching human beings justifying and ignoring poor behavior.

    I’ve also lived in White & Asian neighborhoods and everybody regardless of neighborhood thinks they’re better than another. We all bleed the same way, We all have the same basic desires, we all have the same internal organs and made up of the same organic material” … however for the past thousands of years One Human Group, intentionally abuses another Human Group and then justifies why.

    3,000+ years ago … Africans enslaved Jews to help build the Egyptian Civilization. Around the same time, the Mayans controlled the indigenous people’s of the Americas enslaving them to build their pyramids. Ironically neither group had been taught oppressive behavior by Europeans … so what’s up with the Human mind??

    Like


  214. @TrojanPam–

    Of course, a woman should keep her eyes open when she goes into any relationship and even while she’s married, but I would bet that a quadrillion Black women could talk about how they’ve been duped, degraded, and called all kinds of foul names by Black men or men from other groups who they thought were okay.

    I’m sure you wouldn’t propose for Black American women to stay away from ALL men. We have to tread carefully, but life must go on.

    Like


  215. @TrojanPam
    I wholeheartedly agree with this statement.

    “THIS is why I will say and continue to say WE MUST EDUCATED ourselves about the system of white supremacy, and all their various TROJAN HORSES in for the form of

    entertainment
    materialism
    integration
    “first blacks”
    sexual deviancy

    Otherwise it is futile to talk about defeating it”
    By the way,I have a female friend who is interested in your “Revolutionary” book. Is it okay if I give her your email? Just thought I would ask before just giving it to her.

    Like


  216. @TrojanPam

    Thanks for your definitions of your terms.

    Please give, in your view, the top 10 or 5 or 3 or whatever most profound and egregious
    examples of the operation of “white supremacy” at work in the world. Or, if you don’t want to give a list, then just an explanation of how “white supremacy” is the top most unjust thing in the world.

    Like


  217. @ Kushite Prince

    Yes you can

    Like


  218. @ Legion

    Please re-read my responses.

    Then it should be obvious to all why I think white supremacy is the most unjust system on the planet regarding black and non-white people who constitute

    NINETY-ONE percent of the world’s population

    If you disagree, we can agree to disagree but I need not say more than all that I’ve already said

    Like


  219. @ Dave M.

    I’m no expert on how the different “ethnic” groups evolved but I do not believe the differences between Europeans and Africans is simply a matter of geography.

    Even white “scientists” claim that Europeans are a HYBRID between Neanderthal and “man” (source: National Geographic)

    which means it is so UNDENIABLE that Europeans are a HYBRID between (black) humans and Neanderthals that now they’re MAKING UP scientific theories to make Neanderthal “blood” sound like a good thing (?)

    http://news.discovery.com/human/evolution/neanderthals-interbreeding-humans-110825.htm

    and if you think about it, whites often make “joking” references to their humble Neanderthal beginnings like:

    “you’re acting like a Neanderthal” (something close to what i actually heard Judge Judy say about a white defendant.

    “he’s a caveman”

    comments I’ve NEVER heard black or non-white people use about each other

    I say all that to say that there are REAL genetic and spiritual differences between us and the evidence is the hostility white people feel about people who are not white, regardless of where they go in the non-white world

    and NO, it is not true that “all people do that” because HAD that been the case, whites would have been SLAUGHTERED and/or immediately ENSLAVED the second they stepped foot on African and Native American soil

    where they were EMBRACED and WELCOMED and TAUGHT HOW TO SURVIVE by Africans (in Africa) and Native Americans

    because the original people of North America didn’t feel they owned the land and water and the sky — they believed that Nature and all things belonged to everyone and should be shared

    and if you see the differences between non-whites who seldom claim ownership of things that DO NOT BELONG TO ANYONE, like every inch or drop or breath of land, water, air, etc

    and compare that with the grasping, grabbing, it’s mine, not yours! behavior of whites collectively

    to the extent that some now are claiming they “own” pieces of the moon (??)

    you will see that non-whites and whites do have a DIFFERENT NATURE that goes beyond mere geography

    and Legion, that’s why I say that a small MINORITY on the population hogging 89% of all the planet’s resources and claiming them as “theirs” is the MAJOR PROBLEM on the planet

    Like


  220. @ Jorbia

    No, I wouldn’t say all women should avoid men,

    however, when a GROUP of people are waging war on YOUR people to the extent that black people are being attacked and deprived and jailed and mis-educated and economically discriminated against

    then there is a CLEAR difference (and a sign of good or bad mental health) between choosing a black male or female for a life partner

    and choosing a white one

    IMO

    Like


  221. @ stilettotreehugger

    who said:

    “Actually I talk about myself in 3rd person all the time and I classify myself as Human. As for my ethnic heritage … I’ll never be Black enough, I’ll never be White enough, Latinos can’t figure out how to categorize me and Asians rather lump me with all outsiders.”

    “3,000+ years ago … Africans enslaved Jews to help build the Egyptian Civilization. Around the same time, the Mayans controlled the indigenous people’s of the Americas enslaving them to build their pyramids. Ironically neither group had been taught oppressive behavior by Europeans … so what’s up with the Human mind??”

    —-

    It is a shame that a person’s skin “color” is given so much importance.

    However, as long as the system of white supremacy exists, these differences take on so much (artificial) power that it can mean the difference between life and death, being properly educated or mis-educated, having bombs dropped on your head or pretty balloons floating above it, eating food or starvation, being employed or unemployed, getting a slap on the wrist or a 10 year minimum sentence for the same crime, or dying from 55 bullets shot into your UNARMED (black) body

    I did not create this reality BUT I will acknowledge it as MY reality and the reality of millions of non-white people around the world

    but I do understand the points you make

    I would like to add one thing (which I said earlier) and that is the difference between slavery that has occurred throughout the history of mankind and the TransAtlantic Slave Trade that involved the selling of African people for 400 years

    Slavery has always existed but slaves were often allowed to practice their religions, eat their native foods, speak their native languages, and sometimes even give their children their last names.

    In no other time was slavery about destroying the culture of the slaves. ONLY during the TransAtlantic Slave Trade did the slave-owners focus on the psychological destruction of their slaves

    and NO ONE ELSE used SKIN COLOR as the foundation of their political system. There has NEVER been a

    “system of brown supremacy”
    “system of yellow supremacy”
    “system of red supremacy”
    or a “system of black supremacy”

    where brown, yellow, red, and black people went out all over the world and preached their skin color was “superior” or used that (false) belief to demoralize, dominate, oppress, murder, steal and rape from other (different) people

    based on SKIN COLOR alone

    Like


  222. @TrojanPam
    Thank you. Greatly appreciated.

    Like


  223. @TrojanPam
    ““you’re acting like a Neanderthal” (something close to what i actually heard Judge Judy say about a white defendant.

    “he’s a caveman”

    comments I’ve NEVER heard black or non-white people use about each other”
    This is something they have always known about themselves. Even way back when the Flintstones cartoon was on. Even today they have the Geico commercials with the caveman always looking like a buffoon. That’s why they try to say black people look like monkeys and apes all the time. They’re just projecting. They know about their true “origins” and now want to put a positive spin on being related to the Neanderthal. I thought the Neanderthal was primitive and dumb?? Oh we were just kidding! It’s good to be related to dumb ignorant grunting ape!lol This is too funny! What’s that old expression? “Well I’ll be a monkeys uncle.” Hmmmmm…..I wonder where that comes from.lol

    Like


  224. @ Trojan Pam

    I would think, of course going by what I have read, that indeed , the ‘differences’ that have ‘evolved’ , Culturally and Phenotypically , between Africans and Europeans for example , are the result of Climate/Environment , which of course predicates Lifestyle . I read the books that originally introduced this information to me quite a number of years ago , but some exellent authors, in no particular order are , Cheikh Anta Diop , Ivan Van Sertima ,Yosef A.A. ben-Jochannan(Dr. Ben) , etal. Even Martin Bernal’s “Black Athena” trilogy has exellent information , if you can get through it all .
    Neandertal and Homo Sapien Sapien(modern man) , if I am recalling correctly , did live in the same geographic area for a period of time , but they died out 25-30,000 years ago, apparently . As Africans began to migrate away from the Rift Valley, and of course thereby moving further and further away from the intense direct exposure to the sun(the high melanin content of their skin was protection from the sun’s UV rays) they were less able to produce vit. D. So apparently , we evolved over multiples of generations. Dark skin became lighter, wide sinus cavities in the hot humid climates of sub-saharan Africa gave way to the narrow sinus cavity of the European…. cooler climates, so the breathed air is warmed by the narrower sinus before reaching the lungs, less pneumonia means we have a better chance at survival . Kinky hair in Afrika helped keep us cool , straight “fine” hair of the Northern European or Asian works like a hat, to keep the body warmer in a colder climate … There is another good book that I read years ago that ties alot of this together titled, “Sun People , Ice People” , I’m pretty sere that Len Jeffries wrote it.

    Like


  225. @ Dave M

    That still doesn’t explain the different natures and levels of aggression of whites towards non-whites HISTORICALLY

    I’m not saying every single white individual is a devil OR every single black person is a saint,

    I’m saying we have different natures that cannot be explained based on geography

    Like


  226. @TrojanPam

    The thread now goes around half the Earth’s circumference. Would you make it easy on me and link the one or two comments of yours that clearly show why you think “white supremacy” is the chief injustice in the world?

    Like


  227. @ Legion

    Can’t do that. I’ve taken up entirely too much space on this blog.

    What you can do is go to the “edit” drop down list at the top page menu,

    go to “find” and type in “Trojan Pam” and you’ll find all my comments.

    Like


  228. @TrojanPam–

    there is a CLEAR difference (and a sign of good or bad mental health) between choosing a black male or female for a life partner

    and choosing a white one

    IMO

    Well, IMO, a Black American woman who refuses the love and the partnering of herself in marriage to a good man simply because he’s White is showing that she has bad mental health,

    Like


  229. Regard Neanderthal ancestry: not only whites but ALL non-Africans (including those of only partial African descent) are said to carry, on average, 2% Neanderthal DNA.

    Like


  230. @TrojanPam

    I really don’t want to wade through all your comments. You ought to know which couple of comments best serve to outline your view of “white supremacy” as the top injustice in the world. Since you know better than I where you’ve said so in the thread, it should be easy for you to give me two links. Or one link.

    Like


  231. Also too, is the scope of history in which we’re basing our perspective … the last 6-7 thousand years ago , the large body of water where the Sahara desert is now , was maybe not quite dried up yet . The ealiest fossile remains of modern man ever found in Europe were those of Grimaldi Man(45,000 years ago) , a black man.
    My point , African man migrated all over the planet, crossing over places that are now under water, during ice ages , when the sea level would be lower. Living in the colder harsher climates of Northern Europe would have created more of an Patriarcal society , as opposed to the more pastoral , and matriarcal lifestyle common in much of Africa .

    Like


  232. TrojanPam, Im white , married to a black woman and we have bred a mixed child, just so you know …

    I could go into my feelings about people that mandate there shouldnt be interracial dating or breeding, but, this blog is not about white feelings, and for sure mine would include some words banned on here ,needless to say, Im diametricly oposed to mandates from any where that dictate who can date who..

    In sure not against any black person or poc, deciding they dont want anything to do with whites, but, trying to make it some kind of mandate , with lofty intellectual logical breakdowns of how white supremacy is the reason, just wont play out on the ground and will alienate many black people and mixed people…of which there are many who participate on this blog…its an agenda that is guarenteed to fall flat on its face…

    Trying to make it a mandate and agenda will put the people putting out there , out on a weak limb , that will clash with many black people and right in your own family…did these women in your family just settle for these white men, or was there some kind of love involved?

    Having an antenna up against racism, is something that most black Americans know very well. The information has been extremly well put out since the 60’s, and is a dialogue in black American life.I beleive, black Americans, if feeling out a partner if they are white, can pick up on signs if they are racist or not…of course there examples of not well thought out relationships…but this happens all over with every ethnic and racial group.

    Where I totaly agree, there is a white racist society, and that antenna should be firmly in place, there are just as many well funtioning nurturing mixed relationships out there, with great testamonies as any of the bad experiances out there…with fifty percent divorces across all lines, its not surprising there are as many failures as successes in interracial relationships

    You cant mandate how people feel about other “races” of people, its natural for people to have curiosity about other types of people as well as to be defensive about other people.There is nothing wrong with fantacising about what it would be like to be with someone else from another “race”, there is nothing wrong with expanding horizons about available partners out in this world

    I totaly support any black person developing their defences against white racism , anyway they see fit, but, making it some kind of mandate agenda for all black people and poc, is only asking for wasted conflict and guarenteed division and put downs and insults.You can see it all over the BWE thread on here. Its a bad political agenda from the 60’s, among many very good and powerful political agendas that worked…but this one should be jetisoned down the toilet with full force.

    The truth is, most criticism is against celebrities, its more like The National Enquirerer Mixed Race Celebrity Racial Issues Gossip Section, than some real on the ground experiances of what mixed race dating and breeding is all about…for sure most of the drek I have heard on here , on this blog from various commenters,about mixed race dating and breeding, has nothing to do with the interracial dating and two maraidages , and one mixed son, I have had in my life since the mid 60’s, and go ahead, scrutinise me all you want, I have had to deal with physical intimidation from back then from all sides, so I have a very thick skin and in your face atitude if someone wants to insinuate there ever was anything wrong with that

    Are you kidding about other forms of slavery allowing religions and culture? The Arab slave trade didnt allow for the culture of the slaves they took from black Africa to be practiced. when they were shipped across the Red Sea….you do know the Aztecs were defeated only because the Spanish could recruit all the tribes around the Aztecs who were conquered and used for human sacrifices..I dont trust your take on history

    Like


  233. @ Jorbia

    Under normal conditions, for example, where someone objected to a person marrying outside their group for TRIVIAL and PERSONAL reasons, I would be in total agreement with you.

    BUT

    when your PEOPLE are under the conditions of WAR, and your people are suffering under those conditions, and your people (you included) are seeking RELIEF from your conditions and your suffering

    then it is SELF-DEFEATING and a form of MENTACIDE (colossal lack of sound mental health) to sleep with, sex, bond, breed, and MARRY the same people who are waging war against you and your people.

    Under the conditions of racism/white supremacy, black people are under conditions of war. I have already listed my reasons in previous posts and will NOT do that again here.

    Try to imagine the Palestinians who have been robbed of their lands, forced into “ghettos”, have their children and loved ones murdered

    to decide that the war to win their WAR and gain their FREEDOM and receive JUSTICE is to pretend they are NOT at WAR and to seek marriage with the Israelis

    who are still waging WAR against them despite any amount of sex that might take place

    IMO — THAT is a sign of mentacide and insanity and POOR MENTAL HEALTH

    Like


  234. @ Fiamma

    who said:

    “Regard Neanderthal ancestry: not only whites but ALL non-Africans (including those of only partial African descent) are said to carry, on average, 2% Neanderthal DNA.”

    I have read similar info.

    Which to me is even MORE PROOF that African people have different natures from Europeans — and explains to a degree why African people — especially the DARKEST people with the most melanin (the KEY to fertility) are being attacked by the people with the LEAST MELANIN

    who are — at present — experiencing an EPIDEMIC of INFERTILITY

    and also why so many more whites are marrying and breeding with black people — especially DARK-SKINNED black people

    to INCREASE the fertility of their offspring who will more than likely be raised to be WHITE-IDENTIFIED and will grow up to turn against their black brothers and sisters

    and become FOOT SOLDIERS for the system of white supremacy

    this is even more probable when the white parent is either the custodial parent (after a divorce) or that black child with a white parent is raised around a lot of white people

    I have seen it close up too many times

    and that is usually the OUTCOME

    a person who will be classified as “BLACK” but wishing they were “all” white

    IMO

    Like


  235. @ Dave M

    who said:

    “My point , African man migrated all over the planet, crossing over places that are now under water, during ice ages , when the sea level would be lower. Living in the colder harsher climates of Northern Europe would have created more of an Patriarcal society , as opposed to the more pastoral , and matriarcal lifestyle common in much of Africa.”

    Can’t disagree with that.

    I have read (and heard) that Africans traveled all over planet long before Europeans walked the earth, when the earth was a contiguous land mass

    and that ANCIENT AFRICAN artifacts can be found in places like China, and Europe and North America, and that AFRICANS were in North America when the first Europeans stepped foot on it

    but the Europeans decided to RE-CLASSIFY the darkest people as “black” and the lighter people as “Indians”

    using their classic move of divide and conquer and trying to name and control and OWN everything they lay their eyes on

    and HISTORY bears that out

    J.A. Rogers (now deceased) authored a series of books photos included that illustrated how other non-white ethnic groups (like Chinese) were heavily influenced by African culture and how the bloodlines are intertwined

    Unfortunately, the Europeans destroyed OR have hidden much of this evidence and ancient artifacts and have actually blocked people from reading certain tomes and viewing certain historical treasures, in places like Mexico

    because that evidence is everywhere that AFRICANS existed everywhere and were the FIRST to be civilized and educated people.

    whereas most non-European people would not feel they had the right to possess information and resources that belong to the REST of the world

    NOR would they knock the noses of the Egyptian statues AND deface and vandalize historical monuments just to hide their NEGROID ORIGINS

    THAT is why I say our NATURES are different and why I don’t believe we can EVER live in peace with whites — NOR can they live in peace with anyone else

    THEIR HISTORY OF AGGRESSION BEARS THIS OUT

    Like


  236. @ B. R.

    who said: “TrojanPam, Im white , married to a black woman and we have bred a mixed child, just so you know”

    I am not surprised by this. In fact, it is becoming a very common practice among whites due to infertility issues (as I mentioned earlier) and their shrinking populations

    meaning they will need to take DRASTIC measures to increase their numbers and maintain the white supremacy system with more “foot soldiers”

    which explains the rise in adoptions of black and non-white children BY white people who are still practicing racism against other black and non-white people. Strange, indeed, that you can seek to adopt a black child but have NO black friends… very telling….

    —-

    You said: “I could go into my feelings about people that mandate there shouldn’t be interracial dating or breeding, but, this blog is not about white feelings, and for sure mine would include some words banned on here.”


    .
    ME: Again, I’m not surprised that you would object to anything I’ve been posting. Your feelings, however, do not change whether what I say is TRUE or NOT. It is up to the readers on this blog to decide for themselves.

    —-

    You said: “I’m sure not against any black person or poc, deciding they dont want anything to do with whites, but, trying to make it some kind of mandate with lofty intellectual logical breakdowns of how white supremacy is the reason, just wont play out on the ground and will alienate many black people and mixed people…of which there are many who participate on this blog…its an agenda that is guaranteed to fall flat on its face…”

    I never said blacks shouldn’t want anything to do with whites. In fact, I have said that we are totally dependent on whites but that whites have CREATED that dependency via the system of racism/white supremacy.

    I have also maintained consistently that we should not pretend that we can build separate community/systems away from whites UNTIL we find a way to dismantle the system of white supremacy because they will DESTROY any signs in independent efforts by blacks to maintain CONTROL

    Just google “Black Wall Street”

    For the record, anyone who is alienated by what I’ve written may not be ready for the message — YET. I suspect, that as the economy declines and racism rises, that those who are not ready NOW may be more open to seeing what is really happening.

    And that is white people’s biggest fear, that blacks (and other non-whites) will finally open our eyes and SEE the truth of what has been happening TO us all this time AND who is responsible for our mistreatment.

    I totally disagree when you said blacks can “pick up on signs” that whites are racist because if that were true, maybe Halle Berry wouldn’t have been with a white male who wound up calling her a “n***er”

    NOR would Terrance Howard (the actor) married that particular white female who also called him a “N” on numerous occasions according to him

    (at least I hope they would have had more self-respect had they known)

    Many, many whites are very, very good at hiding their racism (I call it “refinement”) while many blacks and non-whites due to a lifetime of brainwashing are very confused about racism.

    you said: “Are you kidding about other forms of slavery allowing religions and culture? I don’t trust your take on history.”

    Likewise, for OBVIOUS reasons, i would NEVER, ever trust your take on history, given white people’s HISTORY using education, science, and literature, to TOTALLY white-wash (LIE) about the TRUE histories and accomplishments of EVERY non-white group on the planet

    And in the process of LYING have given THEMSELVES credit for creating and inventing everything worth creating and inventing

    Talk about not being able to trust someone’s “take” on history ?

    Your last statement was almost funny, no disrespect intended

    Like


  237. @ B. R.

    question but first I’d like you to read this excerpt from a speech given by Dr. Frances Cress Welsing to a mixed group of black and white people:

    Dr. Welsing:

    “When people who classified themselves as white ask me, Dr. Welsing, ‘What can I do to solve the problem of racism/white supremacy?’ I say
    tell black people what white people talk about when there are no black
    people around. What’s the conversation like when there are no black
    people around?

    “I had a professor at an American university, a white female professor
    several years ago say to me, ‘Dr. Welsing, I hate to admit it, but on all
    social occasions where white people are together and there are no black
    people, we’re talking negatively about black people. And the assumption
    is, every white person present agrees with the discussion.'”

    “And so, when black people don’t understand this, and a white person
    goes to bed with a black person, and a white person doesn’t say, ‘this is
    what we say about black people when there are no black people around,
    the person who has classified themselves as white, is keeping very
    important, strategic and practical information from black people, and
    saying, ‘I love you’ – but I can’t love you and at the same time not give
    you important information.”

    “When a white person says, ‘Dr Welsing, how can I help?’ And I say
    simply tell black people what white people talk about when no black
    people are around.

    And I have never had a white person say, other than this one person
    I mentioned but she didn’t exactly what was said, she said we were
    talking negatively but didn’t reveal the details of the discussion. I have
    never had, ‘Well, let me tell you, this is what we talk about, and this is
    what we’re going to do.

    And it becomes the sexual activity in the system of racism where it
    crosses the racial line becomes deception. As Neely Fuller, Jr. has said,
    the first level becomes tackiness, trashiness, and then becoming
    terroristic – which is what many black men have experienced in the
    workplace.”

    END OF EXCERPT

    I have asked and been told by black people who are dating, sexing, or married to white people that NOT a single one has ever been told by that white person they were involved with, who said they cared about them,

    what white people say about black people when no black people are in the room

    My two questions for you, B.R. are:

    #1 — Have you ever told your black wife what white people say about black people when no black people are in the room so your “wife” can protect herself?

    #2 — Will you tell your non-white child the TRUTH about the way white people will treat her so she can protect herself?

    Like


  238. @ phoebeprunelle

    I’m reading the article now (and would suggest all check it out)

    It reminds me of some of the things Dr. Frances C. Welsing has said (and she is a MEDICALLY TRAINED GENETICIST

    I will definitely save this article for my personal archives

    (I’m sure it will come in handy while doing battle lol)

    Thank you!

    Like


  239. @ phoebeprunelle & TrojanPam

    I agree that was quite an interesting article. My own research has shown Melanin to be central to the basis of all Human life. Just like chlorophyll (it’s cousin) is the central basis of all Plant life. Chlorophyll is responsible for the primary green colour, and ultimately the great variety of all colours, in plants. This analogy holds true for the colours Melanin produces in humans too.

    There is little dispute in present science and genetics today that the original template for human development was an “African Eve”. And the link to the article provided here provides some useful information when the central role of Melanin is placed in its proper context.

    But even when given this factual information of how Melanin is centrally integrated into our biological systems. It cannot and should be used as the ONLY basis for understanding the different physical and spiritual characteristics of all peoples on this planet.

    In addition to this you need to look into and consider the ET genetic evidence. And acknowledge that the Earth… has been the basis of ET involvement from its inception.

    Otherwise attempting to explain and account for physical, physiological and even spiritual differences in the variety of Human species makes no logical or rational sense.

    Just my opinion of course! My own link to this evidence is here:

    http://kwamlaonfb.wordpress.com/2011/02/04/youtube-black-people-does-the-earth-belong-to-blacks-have-they-been-invaded-david-wilcock/

    Like


  240. @Trojan Pam,

    Of course everyone is welcome to explore the site :-)

    I just know that unless people explicitly state that they understand whiteness and how it works in this world–i am assuming that informative sites like that will not offend them.

    Like


  241. @TrojanPam

    There is one more thing I would need to know to understand your outlook: What is it that fundamentally gave rise to “white supremacy”? What catalyst(s) or force(s) created the phenomena of “white supremacy”?

    Like


  242. @ phoebeprunelle

    Absolutely

    I would like to share a quote by Edward Williams (www.counter-racism.com), which we used in one of our books.

    “The only reason white people would want their “genes” to survive is so that they could survive as “white people,” and the only reason they would want to survive as white people would be to practice white supremacy (racism).

    It has been my observation that white people do not want to survive as white
    people for the sake of surviving as white people…it is for the sake of being in the powerful position over the other people on the planet.

    In other words, being a white person has no value and no function except in the SYSTEM of white supremacy (racism).”

    ——————–

    whiteness is a FALSE, MAN-MADE concept that has NO value except in the practice of mistreating people who are NOT white (aka racism)

    Because there is no such thing as a “white” person, no such place as “white land” so the concept had to be created by white people to serve some purpose.

    what was that purpose?

    to have power over people who are NOT white

    Like


  243. @ Legion

    This is the answer we provided in all our books, including, “The Interracial Con Game” (only providing the info for those who want to research it further)

    —–

    Q: Why was “racism/white supremacy” created?

    A: Dr. Frances Cress Welsing, a black psychiatrist and the author of ‘The
    Isis Papers: The Keys to the Colors’ (1991), states that White Supremacy is
    practiced by the global “white” minority on the conscious and unconscious
    level to ensure their genetic survival by any means necessary.

    Because of their “numerical inadequacy,” whites may have defensively
    developed “an uncontrollable sense of hostility and aggression” towards
    people of color, and developed a social, political, and economic structure
    to give blacks and other ‘non-whites’ the appearance of being inferior.”

    The Authors will add one more reason: Racism/white supremacy
    was created to allow the people who classify themselves as “white” to
    economically, socially, politically, sexually, psychologically, and genetically
    DOMINATE all the people who they classify as “non-white.”

    Legion, I have a question for you.

    Are you a white person?

    Like


  244. @ Trojan Pam

    Understood and agreed. There was a difference between how the Spaniards and how the British treated their slaves. Spaniards being of the Catholic-Christian faith, did give their children born from either Black slaves or their indigenous slaves, their last names and financially supported their offspring. Also by 1492, the Moors (Black & Muslim) had already controlled over half of Spain for 400 years, so Spain was already accustomed to mixed children.

    The British and the Dutch followed different beliefs and did not have a history of being ruled by men of color.

    However in regards people of color being the Supreme Rulers:
    System of Red Supremacy: Aztecs, Mayans, Incas, and North American tribes ruled. They were all Brown and no it wasn’t about color. It was about power and who controlled it.

    System of Yellow Supremacy: various Chinese Dynasties and Ghagas Khan, in particular, ruled over more land, people and varying religions than any other culture, more so that Alexander the Great or Caesar. The Chinese Dynasty had no respect for “White” men. … It may not of been about color, but more about cultural control.

    System of Black Supremacy … ruled the planet for thousands and thousands of years and we do not know if it was about color, religious beliefs … or just about who has power. Egyptians looked down upon Greeks & Romans. If it had anything to do with color, that I’m not aware of.

    System of Brown Supremacy … the Persian Empire and they ruled for a very long time.

    We do not know how color played into any of this, because Human beings weren’t documenting their history, as much since the creation of the printing press a couple hundred years ago.

    Ancient Scholars may not of been concerned or consumed about studying color variations. Considering that History is selectively written by the Winners. It’s hard to determine, how much skin color has to do with our history, thousands of years in the making.

    Prior to 1492 … who knows what demoralizing techniques were used. We know that neither murder, rape or oppression is a new phenomenon created by the Europeans. Europeans are a bit late to the Ruling crowd of Civilization.

    We know that there have been various religions (many that no longer exist, but their history remains) throughout the history of man kind. As an example there was time where all ancient cultures worshiped women. Since that has clearly been changed for the last 2000 years minimum, therefore some ruling party obviously had to put the kabash to other people’s religious beliefs.

    We have emerged as a country and a world of Have’s and Have Nots.

    I’m not disagreeing with White Privilege … but it doesn’t benefit Poor White Countries (Poland, Ukraine) nor has it helped poor white children living in the middle of White America, never meeting any people of color, with no understanding of what’s happening to other people, but only what’s happening in their world … and in the world of poor white people … they are told it’s a world filled with Haves & Have Not … Haves who money, industry and consumerism. Then the other half of Have Nots who fund the world of people who have Money.

    The World’s Richest Man is Mexican. Hence why all those rich folks laughed at RMoney’s comment about it would have benefitted him more had he been Mexican. … All those Rich people in the room, fully understood that they didn’t not have the kind of money that Mexican Billionaire has. … the irony. Because how many people in the World, know that the riches man in the World is Brown?

    The Powers that be, want people to fight amongst themselves, because that will keep us busy instead of really seeing what’s happening. Green is the color that keeps people in power.

    Like


  245. @ stilettotreehugger

    You misunderstood my point so let me elaborate further

    when you speak of a “system” based on skin color alone, no one has ever created that system but white people.

    people being of the same “color’ ruling another “color” is not what I’m talking about

    I’m talking about a SYSTEM where one “color” systematically and deliberately creates the ILLUSION of inferior to JUSTIFY their domination of a group SOLELY based on color.

    Say I’m Italian and my Italian mob take over a block where nothing but Polish people live simply because we are bigger, badder, more ruthless and have more guns, so we come in and take over that Polish neighborhood, rape the daughters, and steal their stuff.

    THAT is NOT an act of “Italian supremacy” because the Italians did not create a SYSTEM that allowed them to JUSTIFY their taking over of that Polish neighborhood.

    They just did it

    However, when one examines WHITE SUPREMACY and see that it functions the same way against non-whites whether it is happening in Australia, New Zealand, Europe, Sweden, the U.S., Canada, Latin America, Russia, Israel, etc.

    You see that it is a SYSTEM based on making non-whites appear inferior to JUSTIFY oppressing, raping, and roping and stealing their resources and using education, literature, economics, religion, politics, medicine, food, housing, law, courts, sex, police, employment, and violence to maintain that POWER.

    NO ONE ELSE has ever created a SYSTEM that allows them to go ALL OVER THE WORLD and mistreat people based on color alone. NO ONE has ever wanted to do that but white people collectively.

    However, in the interests of being ACCURATE, if you can find examples of black, brown, red, or yellow people creating a SYSTEM that allowed them to go all over the world and oppress people based on color differences alone,

    please post that link or information

    I would be greatly interested in reading about it.

    Like


  246. @ stilettotreehugger

    who said:

    “I’m not disagreeing with White Privilege … but it doesn’t benefit Poor White Countries (Poland, Ukraine) nor has it helped poor white children living in the middle of White America, never meeting any people of color, with no understanding of what’s happening to other people, but only what’s happening in their world … and in the world of poor white people.”

    —-

    White supremacy does NOT guarantee that all whites will be rich or have the resources they need. What it DOES guarantee that when those poor whites come into contact with people of color that they will be treated BETTER than those non-whites.

    That’s why former Alabama Governor George Wallace once said that when he suggested to poor white that they join up with poor blacks and in that way will have more power, the poor whites REJECTED that idea. He said he discovered that those poor whites would rather do without schools and adequate housing as long as they were better than a “n***er”

    And that is how the white WASP elite used the poor Irish immigrants after slavery to hold down blacks by giving them honorary white privileges because poor Irish weren’t considered “white” until AFTER slavery had ended (read Noel Ignatiev’s book “How the Irish Became White” ) and even though the poor Irish were being mistreated, as long as they were treated better than blacks, they were cool with that.

    there are many more examples I could give but since this is NOT my blog, I will cut it short here

    Regarding the World’s Richest Man being “Mexican” I suspect he is either operating as a white person OR is fronting for the white elite. Just like President Obama is the president in NAME ONLY but is being controlled by more powerful whites behind the scenes.

    —-

    If you do not understand how white supremacy works, everything you think you understand will only confuse you.” — Neely Fuller, Jr.

    Like


  247. @ All

    Great examples of how white supremacy functions are here here on Abagond’s blog, like his latest post

    Wen Ho Lee
    https://abagond.wordpress.com/2013/02/20/wen-ho-lee/

    “Lee spent over a million dollars to defend himself in court against the government.

    Thirteen other scientists knew the same secrets, visited the same institute in China and met the same scientists as Lee. Yet the government did not suspect them. They were white, Lee was Taiwanese American.

    The FBI denied racial profiling.”

    A trillion and one examples of how white supremacy functions on the planet. I really shouldn’t be working this hard to prove it exists

    no disrespect intended.

    Like


  248. I understood. But you misunderstood. We don’t know … because the recorded histories of Eygpt went up in flames. We do know that Ancient Eypgtians drew pictures of people with different skin colors. I haven’t studied enough of Eygptian history to determine why or if colors were ranked differently within their military.

    Also … we are talking about the last 500 years … prior to that we thought the world was flat, we didn’t know what germs were, we killed people for being witches and not scientists. Today’s civilizations have access to motorized vehicles that can travel around the world in a few hours.

    So technically we do not know what Ancient Egyptians would have done to keep a hold of their Power. After all they were in power for Thousands of years … White people been in charge for way less time than that.

    I think human beings, like all animals, will do anything to survive, anything to ensure their genes continue and that includes killing off the competition, such as Lions, Sharks, & Meerkats. So apparently Human beings aren’t the only vicious animals trying to survive.

    There are very few human beings willing to let someone else have control. Monarchies kill each other off, just to rule.

    We all make conscious decisions about our lives. We also decide who’s going to have emotional control over our lives.

    I was suppose to be a neglected High School drop out destined to become a Crack head and pregnant … instead I became an Honor Student in College, struggled alone with my kid. I decided to make better choices. I decided my social worker wasn’t going to discourage me from going to college. I was not going to let some “White” person determine the outcome of my future. When I was hungry, I didn’t steal. When I was being evicted, I didn’t steal or deal drugs. When I was homeless, I didn’t lie, cheat or engage in poor moral behavior to succeed. … I did it the old fashion way … I worked hard and I never gave up. I had many forces against me and in total support of me failing. I made the choice not to make the dreams come true but for me to make my dreams come true. I have every crab try to drag me back into the barrel especially my own family. And even when I was too hard, too expensive and way too many obstacles in my way … I never gave up!!

    And every day since … I have had to work harder to prove that color doesn’t define my work ethic, my intelligence, or tolerance.

    So in as much as I’m too dark for White People and too light for Black people, I don’t speak Spanish, was born here and Asian no matter how “studious” I am, will never accept me … I find that they’re the ones with the identity problem.

    I can not disavow any of my ancestors or their history. I have learned to accept the good, the bad, the ugly and the beautiful.

    The past is no more. What they said, matters no more. What matters is what we do henceforth. Do we give up? Do we allow ourselves to fulfill their self-regulated prophecy? Or do we continue acting like uneducated animals with no desire to improve our lot.

    For peets sake … theirs a video going viral about Black baby toddlers being forced to fight in a playground, by their parents. Who the heck forces a child to fight? Why is that entertaining? So while we would love to blame the White system … we have to ask, why are we making it so easy???

    Like


  249. Sorry for the spelling errors … was writing fast during lunch. I’m pretty sure I misspelled Egypt incorrectly a few times. Oh well.

    Like


  250. @Kwamla Thanks for that video! And also you have a great blog! That’s some great information on melanin. Much appreciated.

    Like


  251. @TrojanPam What’s your take on Zionism and white supremacy? Are they one and the same ? I hear them used interchangeably. Some people say they are not the same at all.

    Like


  252. TrojanPam, its you that made a foolish statement like no one else has stripped black people of their culture in slavery…you are just spreading misinformation

    You bet Ive had that conversation…Like I said, Ive been interracial dating since the mid 60’s, Ive been called “n … lover” by whites , pushed into a car by among others the huge linebacker on my champian high school football team intimidating me to stick to my own kind…Ive also had black men throw fire crackers at me and my date , and a car drive by with black men threatening to kick my @ss while im walking with my date , and, I tip my hat to these wonderful women who had the courage to just be with me, in a time when it was against the grain…

    I know how white people used to talk, and let me tell you, it might be the quality of the white people I do know, now, they dont talk that bs, they dont say racist words in our conversations

    I didnt say you said dont hang out with white people, I said some people do that, and , I said, that is their perogative, what I said I object to was your statement about breeding and dating, and that is some real pseudo psyche analysis about what ever reasons you think people interracial date..it definitly has nothing to do with me …and I did say I thought much of what you said is on target

    You see how you have to go to celibrities…you know, people know what causes aids these days, as far as unprotected sex, but, people get aids…people make wrong desicians…in relationships , when things get wrong, nasty insults will come out, and some people will use what they think is the worst insult they can…I can guarentee you, in all my realtionships with black women, race issues, not racism issues my partners or son have to face, which I am there for my partners and have their back, and they have mine, never came up and never was an issue…you just cant make some blanket statement like that is the way it is…like becuase some people discovered their partner is racist, so that means all interracial relationships have that problem

    You have no idea of what my take on history is, you already made some blatent mistatements

    Like


  253. @ B. R.

    TrojanPam, its you that made a foolish statement like no one else has stripped black people of their culture in slavery…you are just spreading misinformation

    Please give me the direct quote from my post where I said the above. If I’m spreading misinformation then post the links and references disproving what I said. Thank you.
    —-

    You said. “I know how white people used to talk, and let me tell you, it might be the quality of the white people I do know, now, they dont talk that bs, they dont say racist words in our conversations.”
    —-
    Used to? Sorry, I just don’t buy what you said above, so I’ll agree to disagree with that statement.

    Also, if you’re claiming that you have not heard any white people say derogatory things about black people when no black people are in the room, I do not believe you.

    And if I’m correct that you are not telling the truth about that, then I also have to doubt that you have revealed to your black wife and child what those white people talk about when THEY’RE not in the room.

    Sorry I just don’t believe you are having those conversations with them, otherwise, I don’t think what I’ve written would be so upsetting to you.

    It’s not about whether all so-called interracial relationships are “bad” or “good”

    it’s about opposing a white supremacy system that mistreats all black people — including your wife and child — and about TELLING THE TRUTH, so non-white people will have a shot at dismantling it.

    WAR is being waged against black and non-white people BY white people globally

    From

    incarcerating black people for the same crimes that whites get a slap on the wrist for committing,

    underfunding and closing black schools and destroying the intellectual potential of black children,

    gentrifying areas to rob powerless blacks of their homes and property

    dropping atomic, drone, and napalm bombs on Japan, Pakistan, Vietnam, Libya, and Iraq

    committing MASS GENOCIDE in Africa, and poisoning lakes and rivers in Africa to drive African people off their land and STEAL their resources

    shooting unarmed black men, women AND children down in cold blood and predominantly WHITE juries letting those policemen get away with MURDER,

    and the list is too long for this blog

    All the above is TERRORISTIC TERRORISM and undeniable PROOF that whites collectively are waging against all non-white people

    And as long as these WARS continue, I maintain that no sex should take place between blacks and whites because we cannot…

    lay down with white supremacy at night and get up in the morning and fight it

    Until white people decide to completely DISMANTLE an unjust system they KNOW allows them to benefit at the expense of non-white people
    and I don’t care what ANYONE says, all white people know they are white and they know who is NOT and what that means = being mistreated
    They should NOT be rewarded with the love, bodies, sex, or fertile offspring of non-white people — IMO —

    Otherwise what is their incentive to change?

    In any case, if my position offends some people, then let it offend.
    I am not posting to win a popularity contest, I’m here to share information and MY opinions

    just as you’re sharing yours.

    Have a nice day.

    Like


  254. @ stilettotreehugger

    My main reason for posting is not to prove or disprove anything about basic human nature

    Everyone has their opinion about it so this dialogue could continue ad infinitum

    When you wrote:

    “For peets sake … theirs a video going viral about Black baby toddlers being forced to fight in a playground, by their parents. Who the heck forces a child to fight? Why is that entertaining? So while we would love to blame the White system … we have to ask, why are we making it so easy???”

    My response is

    That is SMALL potatoes compared to Penn State scandals, gross child molestation, rape and murder by whites, the Catholic church, and thousands of stories about whites molesting and harming their children

    check out http://cynicalafrikan.com/

    My point is that prisoners in a prison camp often act out in dysfunctional ways.

    If you could imagine a family that was imprisoned, molested, beaten, raped, exploited and brutalized for 25 generations — 400 YEARS – and the news media got hold of that story, I bet most of the people on this post — perhaps even you — would realize the colossal amount of damage that occurred and would expect those surviving generations to be devastated

    YET

    Black people went through such a process for 400 years AND for another 100 years after so-called slavery ended (it didn’t)

    and we just can’t understand and express surprise that after 40 or so years (living UNDER the system of white supremacy still being mistreated)

    blacks collectively haven’t healed completely

    I think that is a COMPLETELY unreasonable, inhumane, and unrealistic position

    and shows a profound lack of understanding one’s history OR human behavior.

    IMO

    Like


  255. @ stilettotreehugger

    Sorry for overlooking part of your last post to me:

    You said: “We all make conscious decisions about our lives. We also decide who’s going to have emotional control over our lives.”

    I agree. You sound like a strong, determined person

    but it’s a given that some people are stronger than others

    would we NOT be better off helping them to build up their self-respect rather than telling them how short they’ve fallen

    I remember how I inferior I felt as a black child, teenager and a young adult. It took me YEARS to realize how much self-hatred I had internalized from being taught that black people, black culture, black hair, black noses, lips and just being black BY white society.

    I also watched so many of my young black classmates and peers — bright, sometimes brilliant young black people who fell into drugs and despair because they had bought in the LIE that there was something inherently wrong with them because they were black.

    And that is what I’m fighting so hard for here, to help other black people understand that THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH BLACK PEOPLE and if I step on some white toes OR confused black ones doing it

    then I can live with that

    ——————

    I was suppose to be a neglected High School drop out destined to become a Crack head and pregnant … instead I became an Honor Student in College, struggled alone with my kid. I decided to make better choices. I decided my social worker wasn’t going to discourage me from going to college. I was not going to let some “White” person determine the outcome of my future.

    When I was hungry, I didn’t steal. When I was being evicted, I didn’t steal or deal drugs. When I was homeless, I didn’t lie, cheat or engage in poor moral behavior to succeed. … I did it the old fashion way … I worked hard and I never gave up. I had many forces against me and in total support of me failing. I made the choice not to make the dreams come true but for me to make my dreams come true. I have every crab try to drag me back into the barrel especially my own family. And even when I was too hard, too expensive and way too many obstacles in my way … I never gave up!! And every day since … I have had to work harder to prove that color doesn’t define my work ethic, my intelligence, or tolerance.

    I commend you for overcoming whatever circumstances you overcame

    But I think we should try to maintain some empathy for those who didn’t make it out the way you did.

    Because I know wherever I am — and I take full responsibility for my mistakes — BUT I take NO responsibility OR blame for having been PUT in such a disadvantaged position in the first place

    and give most of the credit to all the black people who came before me

    who made it possible for me to get as far as I have wherever that is

    Like


  256. CORRECTION:

    The passage below was said by stilettotreehugger:

    “I was suppose to be a neglected High School drop out destined to become a Crack head and pregnant … instead I became an Honor Student in College, struggled alone with my kid. I decided to make better choices. I decided my social worker wasn’t going to discourage me from going to college. I was not going to let some “White” person determine the outcome of my future.

    When I was hungry, I didn’t steal. When I was being evicted, I didn’t steal or deal drugs. When I was homeless, I didn’t lie, cheat or engage in poor moral behavior to succeed. … I did it the old fashion way … I worked hard and I never gave up. I had many forces against me and in total support of me failing. I made the choice not to make the dreams come true but for me to make my dreams come true. I have every crab try to drag me back into the barrel especially my own family. And even when I was too hard, too expensive and way too many obstacles in my way … I never gave up!! And every day since … I have had to work harder to prove that color doesn’t define my work ethic, my intelligence, or tolerance.”

    Like


  257. on Fri 22 Feb 2013 at 01:09:12 theworldwelivein

    @ Trojan Pam: Sending luv your way!

    Like


  258. @ theworldwelivein

    (( grabbing the luv! ))

    (don’t forget to give me some “like” on my site! :-)

    Like


  259. @TrojanPam–

    Until white people decide to completely DISMANTLE an unjust system they KNOW allows them to benefit at the expense of non-white people

    Don’t hold your breath expecting people to walk away from anything that gives them privileges.. What would be in it for them? They’ll go to heaven ond day? Try to talk Black males here into giving up their male privileges that enable them to benefit at the expense of Black females. The males on here know that no amount of talking would ever cause them to give up those privileges. How would they gain?

    In negotiations, you’ve got to present to the other side what they would gain. My assumption is that this is a sort of negotiation since you don’t have a bomb.

    and I don’t care what ANYONE says, all white people know they are white

    All white people may know they are white at a certain age, but no white person can help if they’re white, just as no black person can help that they are black, just as no male can help that he is male, and no female can help that she is female.

    They should NOT be rewarded with the love, bodies, sex, or fertile offspring of non-white people — IMO —

    Otherwise what is their incentive to change?

    Incentive? So, you believe that if Blacks withhold sex from Whites, it would make Whites change their ways. :-) Okay, let’s pursue this solution.. If it’s true that having sex with Blacks is that important to Whites, then what would stop Whites from just taking sex from Blacks? You’ve said Whites have all the power. Also, there are millions or billions of other people on earth who have melanin aside from Blacks. They too are obviously very fertile. Or maybe I should ask who are the Blacks?

    The bottom line is you’re arguing that Black women should give their wombs only to Black men when you know that’s causing mass suffering and deaths. I know that you’re very angry, but how can you justify that? The logical conclusion that one could easily get from your argument is that Black women should just slit their wrists and get it over with. I say this because you know that, as things stand now, Black men, in aggregate, cannot or will not sustain life.

    Like


  260. @ Kushite Prince

    who asked

    What’s your take on Zionism and white supremacy? Are they one and the same ? I hear them used interchangeably. Some people say they are not the same at all.

    I believe that Zionism is just another form of WHITE SUPREMACY where white supremacists have claimed the “Jewish” religion — and often hide behind it while they do what they do

    but I would advise non-white people not to get caught up in labels because following all the manufactured labels that are meant to confuse and deceive

    actually confuse and deceive us

    white supremacy is the dominant force/system on the planet. I don’t care what else they call it

    of course I could be incorrect

    (Abagond, please excuse me for all this posting on YOUR blog!)

    Like


  261. I wonder if there is a reason why commenters like Churchs etc. have not posted here? No need to stir a pot that’s already boiling I guess?

    Like


  262. TrojanPam, frist, I want to say that I do agree with most of what you have been saying. The reason I had to mention about this quote:

    “Slavery has always existed but slaves were often allowed to practice their religions, eat their native foods, speak their native languages, and sometimes even give their children their last names.

    In no other time was slavery about destroying the culture of the slaves. ONLY during the TransAtlantic Slave Trade did the slave-owners focus on the psychological destruction of their slaves”

    is because I have been arguing on various threads here that when slaves were taken from Africa to be sent over the Red Sea , in huge numbers, they were stripped of their culture..and I have brought in a huge amount of youtubes trying to show what that culture is that got either watered down or just outright suffocated and destroyed

    I in no way am trying to say the Atlantic slave trade was better, like you said, it has aspects that make it more cruel than any form, I only felt compelled to point out about culture being destroyed because I have been involved in detailed discusions about that here

    Also, I would never infer that white people dont say bad things about black people behind their backs, Im saying , Im lucky , because the white Americans that I have as work colleagues , and its not a great number, I do live in Brazil now, dont indulge in that kind of racist talk, thank goodness, …of course I have heard some idiots make racist comments in my ear range

    By you making the statement about interracial relationships, it doesnt leave me much choice but to speak my opinion , right?

    And, I would have no objection if you had a long list of how white people could be racist in a relationship with a black person , and include all the things you are talking about, Im totaly all for that, but, I cant see just making a mandate that sais it is just plain wrong..

    Way beyond my personal feelings, I think it devides and alianates a lot of people of color that could be of great strength to the goals you are looking to aceive and the obstacles you are looking to confront

    I know you have to find for yourself, what works for you , to have to deal with racism , I dont want you to think I have oposed many things you are saying, I think you have a lot of good points to make

    Like


  263. @TrojanPam–

    I appreciate that you’re providing information here to many Black Americans who obviously didn’t have some of this information. Keep in mind though that some of us already knew much of this and can interpret and apply it.

    You’re working overtime to prove what you’re saying and that’s not necessary because much of what you say is factual, however, some of your proof is biased and flawed. It’s hearsay. Like the following when you talk about what a white woman supposedly said to Dr. Welsing:

    ‘Dr. Welsing, I hate to admit it, but on all
    social occasions where white people are together and there are no black
    people, we’re talking negatively about black people. And the assumption
    is, every white person present agrees with the discussion.’”

    This is an anecdote and it’s hearsay. What exactly is her assumption of 100% agreement of all whites present based on? Many people stay silent when controversial topics are discussed because they are afraid or don’t like confrontation. However, even if this assumption is 100% true, why would Black Americans lose any sleep over what Whites are saying about them when they leave the room? People have always talked badly about people behind their backs, for one reason or another.That’s called backbiting.

    That wouldn’t be important to me. I would say that’s big progress based on what my Dad says that used to happen. So think about that. That’s a lot of progress if Whites can’t make racist rants to a Black person’s face the way they used to do.

    Some Black Americans have had very different experiences, but some here will argue that if we don’t all just admit we feel the same way, then we are in denial. That denies my reality because I know how I feel. You say you felt inferior to Whites for a period of your life, so that biases you to believe that all of us feel inferior. I have never felt inferior to Whites in aggregate, maybe due to the way my parents raised me and my siblings. I know I’m not as good at some things as some Whites are, but I’m not as good as good at some things as other Blacks are either. I’m better than many Whites and Blacks at other things.

    If my White fiance or his family and friends backbite me, well I can easily live with that as long as they’re as nice as pie to my face. And they are.

    Like


  264. @ Kushite Prince

    Your welcome. Thanks for your comments!

    Like


  265. @TrojanPam

    Thank you for your answer.

    As to your question, I will answer you, but first: why do you ask? Is it something I’ve said or the way I’ve said it? Elaborate a little please.

    Like


  266. @ Legion

    No real mystery there Legion. Its a question that has often crossed my mind. Its easy to discern from your responses and answers to questions. In fact its only recently that I realised you identified as Black. Am I wrong?

    Like


  267. @TrojanPam Thank you for that beautiful answer! I would concur with what you said. I think it’s important we all do our part to help other black people become less confused. Knowing the right terminology is important when trying to counter racism.

    Like


  268. @Jorbia You said:
    “If my White fiance or his family and friends backbite me, well I can easily live with that as long as they’re as nice as pie to my face. And they are.”
    That’s an interesting comment. So you’re saying it’s cool if your white fiancée and his family talk s*it about you behind your back? What happen to love and trust? I wouldn’t be cool with that. That would be a major concern for me. Is it okay if they make black jokes–just as long as its not in your company? Judging from your earlier statement it probably wouldn’t bother you very much,right?
    As Pam stated earlier we are at war right now. But it’s more a psychological war than physical. And since most black people don’t know this they feel nothing wrong with marrying and sleeping with whites. You claim you already know the things Pam has stated. If you truly understand white supremacy,how does marrying a white person counter racism? Do you believe mixed raced people create better race relations?

    Like


  269. @TrojanPam

    I look forward to your response.

    Like


  270. @Trojam
    Great responses.

    And where did we get to topic Black females dating outside of their race?

    Honestly as a Black female, There is nothing wrong with Black females dating outside of their race but as long as they are happy and love their significant other. Also the Black female should know her history and love herself as well.

    Like


  271. @Kushite Prince–

    So you’re saying it’s cool if your white fiancée and his family talk s*it about you behind your back?

    I didn’t say it was cool. I’m not going to worry about things that I don’t know about. This is all based on hearsay or on what Trojan Pam said that Dr. Welsing said that a white woman said.

    What happen to love and trust?

    This is really absurd. Nothing has changed.You sound like you believe anything you hear or read.

    I wouldn’t be cool with that. That would be a major concern for me.

    Without any proof that someone is doing any of this or whether it’s going on to any significant extent, you’re reacting to this gossip. That mean’s you’re easy to manipulate. This all started with something an anonymous White woman supposedly said. Remember that you don’t know that any of this is happening or how much. Where’s the research? Also, we all know who Dr. Welsing is so if a malicious White person wanted to play with her mind, all they’d have to do is tell her something that she wouldn’t question. They already know that she thinks the worst about White people. They’d know she’s going to repeat it to other Black people and that they would believe it too, just like you do. There are plenty of malicious people who will play with your mind if you let them.

    Is it okay if they make black jokes–just as long as its not in your company?

    This has nothing to do with what I think is okay. I can’t control what anyone does and especially when they’re not in my company. Can you? If you start worrying about what people are saying when you’re out of the room or start thinking that people are always talking about you, that’s called paranoia.

    You claim you already know the things Pam has stated.

    I know mostly all of the factual points she’s made. She has also pointed out that a lot of what she says is her opinions.

    If you truly understand white supremacy,how does marrying a white person counter racism? Do you believe mixed raced people create better race relations?

    I can’t be sure whether these are rhetorical questions or whether you really want to know what I believe. Even if you do want me to tell you what I believe, I’d like to know why. How would it help you. If you already believe what you seem to believe, you don’t need to know my beliefs. You would be better off asking TrojanPam to answer those questions for you.

    Like


  272. @ TrojanPam (Kindred Spirit/Soul)

    “And that is what I’m fighting so hard for here, to help other black people understand that THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH BLACK PEOPLE and if I step on some white toes OR confused black ones doing it

    then I can live with that.”

    ****************

    THANK YOU so much !!!!!!!

    I wish I had the time – and energy to fight as hard as YOU, and *SOME OTHERS* here do.

    I don’t – so I make it MY JOB TO ENCOURAGE those that do, and challenge some of those who don’t!

    So, please keep on keeping ON… according to what’s on your heart to do!

    : ))

    Like


  273. J.F.K was our last “Real” President IMO. Reagan did some good things as well but I think his buttt was held to the fire on certain things just like the rest of them. Same with Clinton.

    Like


  274. Subject: Wake Up call!

    EXECUTIVE ORDERS ISSUED:

    Teddy Roosevelt: 3
    Others Prior To FDR: NONE
    FDR: 11 in 16 years
    Truman: 5 in 7 years
    Ike: 2 in 8 years
    JFK: 4 in 3 years
    LBJ: 4 in 5 years
    Nixon: 1 in 6 years
    Ford: 3 in 2 years
    Carter: 3 in 4 years
    Reagan: 5 in 8 years
    Bush 1: 3 in 4 years
    Clinton: 15 in 8 years
    Bush 2: 62 in 8 years
    Obama: 923 in 3+ years!

    Scary!
    923 Executive Orders in 40 Months

    Like


  275. ^^^^^^^Ok Abagond the source I got that from turned out to be not that credible.
    But It was over executive100 in his first 40 months. More than the others. Just pointing out that if others did less he may have some more puppet strings attached.

    Like


  276. While I’m still reading the comments to this popular post ,I hear that Jorbia is married to a white/albinic male ,no wonder I mistook her for a troll(a lame label anyway),now a lot of this dialogue makes more sense.

    Like


  277. Yeah @ Mbeti

    That revelation of Jorbia’s make way more sense now to me as well. I won’t elaborate, but her past commentary even in response to my and other’s commentary definitely makes sense to me.

    Like


  278. @Mbeti–

    Just saw this:

    While I’m still reading the comments to this popular post ,I hear that Jorbia is married to a white/albinic male ,no wonder I mistook her for a troll(a lame label anyway),now a lot of this dialogue makes more sense.

    It cetainly doesn’t make sense to me that in this thread, you were wishing the President and his family were brutally murdered. I still haven’t gotten over that.

    Not married yet but I’m looking forward to marrying him since he’s a good man who loves me, I love him, and he wants to marry me while 70% of Black Americans women don’t have a committed partner. Are you married to any of them?

    Like


  279. @Mbeti

    You desperately need a revamp on your logic; please, please, please, for your own good. How in the hell would Jorbia’s plans to marry person xyz affect what you did and said on the American racism against blacks thread? No one forced you or made you call her a troll, you chose to do that based on what you thought you knew about her. And based on your discomfort with things she had said. I corrected you about whether she was a troll or not and informed you she is black. Instead of taking responsibility for your error, you wait for something cockamamie like who she is going to marry to justify what you had said on that thread.

    When you read commentary here that you dislike or makes you uncomfortable that does not render the commentary invalid or troll like. You need to use other criteria to figure out if someone is a troll. Calling her a troll is a cheap way to try and shut her up. She don’t shut up easy, from what I can see. And highlighting who she is engaged to is an even worse and cheaper way for you to try and dismiss what she has to say. Take The Cynic’s advice from the Django Unchained thread and try listening to her.

    Like


  280. @Sugarkiss–

    . My fiance is a White man who respects me enough to put a ring on it. How many Black American women have fiances at all or at least before they’re in their late thirties or forties? How many Black American men are trying to put a ring on any Black woman’s finger?

    So you consider it a “revelation” that my fiance is White. I’d bet that some of these Black American men who comment on here have White women girlfriends or wives, just like a good many of the Black nationalist male leaders had during the Black Power movement. They just don’t tell anybody.

    Like


  281. @SugarKiss

    That revelation of Jorbia’s make way more sense now to me as well. I won’t elaborate, but her past commentary even in response to my and other’s commentary definitely makes sense to me.

    You won’t elaborate because there’s no argument that you could construct against her positions, based on who she plans to marry, that would not descend into the realm of the absurd and the stupid. Deal with Jorbia’s arguments if you have competency to do so.

    You are leaving a lame ad hominem comment as a “wink, wink, nudge, nudge” to those fools who appreciate such things.

    Like


  282. @ Jorbia,

    Please don’t believe the hype. I am happily married to an African-American man. It will be 11yrs this August. So don’t be stereotypical with your response. There are good “BLACK” men out there, and they aren’t all in jail, non-committing thugs, and white female worshiping dogs. *I’m sure you know that right ;-) *

    Like


  283. @lifelearner,

    My Dad is married to my Mom also and for a lot longer than 11 years. So your point is?

    But this is my point in case you missed it. 70% or more of Black American women lack legally committed mates and the reason why that percentage keeps going up is because most Black Americans refuse to talk about it and call it what it is: a tragedy of enormous proportions for the women and children. I hope no one brings up the excuse of Black men not having money. We know that during slavery and Jim Crow, Black Americans had a lot less money, but the men still committed themselves to the women and children in record numbers.

    This affects all of us, so I will talk about it. You might think that we should all stay quiet until it reaches 99% since you’ve got your man. Right? Those Black American women who rush to defend Black men need to stop coddling Black American men and covering up for them. Black men sure don’t cover for and coddle Black American women or their children, not by a long shot.

    Like


  284. its even worse being a interracial person i’m sorry

    Like


  285. @ Jorbia

    I think you are preaching to the choir, though. Your commentary is a bit condescending and hackneyed. You can state your grievances until you are blue in the face. Now I see why, some might think you are a *troll* peace to you :-D Happy trails to you and your white fiancee ;-)

    Like


  286. @lifelearner–

    I don’t have grievance; I’m just stating facts. Maybe some others on here have a grievance since they’re discussing my marriage. I’m a woman getting married to a man. And?

    It’s interesting that when facts are stated about White racism, the Hallelujah chorus comes out, but when certain little sordid facts about Black Americans are mentioned that Black Americans need to and can address, some commenters here act like I said the aliens have landed. I do wonder whether some of the Black men on here are married especially when they start talking about my marriage.

    Like


  287. @Jorbia
    First off I must apologize for mistaking you for a “troll” during our first comment encounter.
    Furthermore ,I think it is misguided and immature to refer to any commenter by a slanderous term even those who are mentally deranged ,mistaken or even deliberately hostile – Thus I also apologize to all commenters and the blog host poster as well.

    In the future I will endeavor to respond to the best of my abilities – directly to the issues any commenter makes regardless of intent or disagreement.

    “It cetainly doesn’t make sense to me that in this thread, you were wishing the President and his family were brutally murdered. I still haven’t gotten over that.”

    This is my reasoning and it applies to anyone and everyone including myself.

    Mr. Obama as President signs off on (official approves of) a kill list – that is specific military action that kills targeted individuals.

    He does this regularly if not everyday.

    In addition many “innocent” civilians are killed in the course of executing these operations – elderly and children (the most vulnerable and defenseless type of humans as well as women and men who are not combatants).

    Furthermore he has said nothing about any of this even though it is public knowledge ,abagond has even done a post on it and there is a wordpress blog – drone watch – that monitors the people he has approved of – sign off on killing.

    Also I think he and his wife knew they would be engaged in such activity as a part of him assuming the office of presidency.

    To me this is at minimum extreme moral indifference – should we not care about other humans on this planet?
    should we at least care about the “innocent”ones?

    Is Our only option – if you come allegedly against us armed we kill you and anyone around you regardless just cause we can?

    If the answer to any of these questions is no by anyone including me then I should not care if YOU whoever – gets brutally murdered in kind.

    Note I did not say want you to or that you even should – I just have my limitations ,and at some point ,you will lose my concern.

    “Not married yet but I’m looking forward to marrying him since he’s a good man who loves me, I love him, and he wants to marry me while 70% of Black Americans women don’t have a committed partner. Are you married to any of them?”

    No,I ‘m single never been married but have a very slim hope that I could one day marry a african american women.

    However I’ve made a commitment to honor ,truth and myself – and if its my fate not to be able to marry a african american women then I’ll die without achieving this most precious goal.

    As to “white” asian latino other – sorry but in my view I and we african americans have been through to much and there is not enough reason nor need.

    Like


  288. Hello Sweet-ums aka Jorbia

    I’ve been watching with interest how you’re winning all manner of hearts and minds with your convictions regarding what’s wrong with black america, particularly black men … how we’re not taking care of our responsibilities and such.

    There is much of your STUFF to refute, but I’ll just have to leave it to others (if they’re so inclined). My time is limited. Yes, our community is in trouble, but it’s not just the men’s fault. Especially since it is the females who ultimately decide how, where, when, why and WITH WHOM they will breed with.

    But with the little time I can afford you, I’d like to respond to the following.

    “Not married yet but I’m looking forward to marrying him since he’s a good man who loves me, I love him, and he wants to marry me while 70% of Black Americans women don’t have a committed partner.”

    and:

    “But this is my point in case you missed it. 70% or more of Black American women lack legally committed mates and the reason why that percentage keeps going up is because most Black Americans refuse to talk about it and call it what it is: a tragedy of enormous proportions for the women and children.”

    ****************

    Excerpt from a recent NY TIMES article

    “It’s not simply an unhelpful observation. This culturally popular notion that 70 percent of black women don’t marry is just a myth. For the last few years, I have been hearing from every source imaginable that the vast majority of black women will never marry. This never made sense to me because so many black women I know are married. And indeed, eventually, most black women do marry.

    A look at recent census data will tell you that the 70 percent we keep hearing about has been misconstrued. According to 2009 data from the Census Bureau, 70.5 percent of black women in the United States had never been married — but those were women between the ages of 25 and 29. Black women marry later, but they do marry. By age 55 and above, those numbers showed, only 13 percent of black women had never been married. In fact, people who have never married in their lifetimes are in the clear minority, regardless of race.

    With all the attention on black women, I had assumed that black men must be marrying in droves; otherwise they would be the focus of similar scrutiny. Not the case. Census numbers show that 73.1 percent of black men between the ages of 25 and 29 have never been married. That is actually higher than the numbers associated with black women.”

    [end of excerpt]

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/11/opinion/sunday/black-and-female-the-marriage-question.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

    *****************

    DO NOT BELIEVE THE HYPE.

    “My fiance is a White man who respects me enough to put a ring on it. How many Black American women have fiances at all or at least before they’re in their late thirties or forties? How many Black American men are trying to put a ring on any Black woman’s finger?”

    *******

    Hey… Good luck with your upcoming nuptials with your white fiance. And btw, the only reason why some posters have commented on your marital status and whatnot is because YOU first wrote about it.

    Fact:
    Most black men LOVE and MARRY black women. Anyone suggesting otherwise is pushing (or justifying) their own personal agenda. There are MANY black men who are raising/supporting their children and loving their significant others. To hear some tell it, there are no good black men – implying that only white men make good husbands and fathers. This, as we know, is a bald face lie.
    <3
    : )))

    Like


  289. @Mbeti–

    First off I must apologize for mistaking you for a “troll” during our first comment encounter.

    I accept your apology, and I respect you for it.

    Mr. Obama as President signs off on (official approves of) a kill list – that is specific military action that kills targeted individuals.

    He does this regularly if not everyday.

    I understand what you’re saying and I wouldn’t want his job. The way I emotionally deal with these military actions is that as an adult, I’ve had to accept that militaries are simply efficient killing machines, but at the same time, I know that the world is not a pretty place. Obama is commander in chief of the military and he inherited this condition that the world is in.

    Maybe you’re saying that Obama shouldn’t have even wanted to be president. Or maybe you’re saying that since he’s a man of color, he should be able to convince hostiles to get along with each other and with America better than White presidents or without resorting to weaponry..

    I think that what Black men like you have got to decide is whether you will lead or whether you can be content to always be led or ruled. Some Black men want to lead. Most little African boys are taught to want to lead. It’s expected of them to want to do it. Ultimately, that’s a private decision because there’s an upside and downside to each decision.. Obama decided that he was willing to pay the cost to be a leader. He knew that many of his decisions wouldn’t be popular and that he’d have to do certain things that some think are vile. Sometimes, Americans become collateral damage too.

    Then, you seem to have negative feelings against his wife. Maybe you think his wife should have divorced him to prevent him from becoming president or openly oppose his decisions..

    When it come to marriage, I hope you will have the experience one day if you want to marry.

    Like


  290. @Matari–

    1. Women want to get married when they’re in their prime childbearing ages and this is not when they’re in their late 30s, 40s, or by age 55. Are you serious? Given a good choice, women want to marry before they have children.That’s why I wonder about all of these “good” Black men that some of you keep talking about. Some of these women would have to know about some of those men. If a woman doesn’t think a man is a good man, she’s not going to be motivated just like if a man doesn’t think a woman is appealing enough, he’s not going to be motivated.

    2. Black American men not getting married is not the same as Black women not getting married because a woman can’t marry a man unless he asks her or agrees to marry her. Men initiate marriage. My point is that if a lot of those Black American men would ask the women to marry them, many women would marry them. Or maybe you’re saying that Black women should choose men they want to marry and then propose to the men.

    3. When I mentioned that I was getting married, that was connected to something that we were discussing on here like relationships, marriage, or family. I didn’t realize I was revealing a deep, dark secret that would be the top of future discussions. I can’t believe that I’m the first commenter who’s said they were getting married on here, and even if I am, the proper etiquette is to just wish the engaged person happiness, not to talk about the engagement as if it’s something sinister.

    Like


  291. @ all

    —-

    when the pupil is ready, the teacher will appear

    Like


  292. A look at recent census data will tell you that the 70 percent we keep hearing about has been misconstrued. According to 2009 data from the Census Bureau, 70.5 percent of black women in the United States had never been married — but those were women between the ages of 25 and 29. Black women marry later, but they do marry. By age 55 and above, those numbers showed, only 13 percent of black women had never been married. In fact, people who have never married in their lifetimes are in the clear minority, regardless of race.

    ^That is supposed to be a refutation of the 70% unmarried stat. It is very sad that someone could read read that article and not see the glaring flaws and strange assumptions in the reasoning of the article’s author.

    I don’t have time to break it all down. But really, a reasonable and honest person should be able to read that article and dismiss it as invalid and know why they are dismissing it as invalid. Jorbia has pointed out some of the flaws in the assumptions behind the article already.

    Like


  293. @TrojanPam

    what is the point of posting that unfortunate and vulgar exchange that occurred between “Jade” and the revolting Laura Schlessinger?

    Like


  294. @ all

    ————————————–

    WHEN THE PUPIL IS READY, A TEACHER WILL APPEAR

    Like


  295. @ Legion

    A BETTER question is why you asked that question.

    Like


  296. @ Legion

    And before you ask me why I posted the second video

    While the TRUTH may be unfortunate it is never so vulgar that it shouldn’t be revealed if it is TRUTHFUL

    Of course, that is your prerogative whether you choose to view OR not

    fortunately, everyone is free to make that choice for themselves.

    (I believe my previous question of several days ago was just answered)

    Like


  297. Hey… Good luck with your upcoming nuptials with your white fiance. And btw, the only reason why some posters have commented on your marital status *and whatnot is because YOU first wrote about it.

    ^Dishonorable

    *”and whatnot” <———–the extremely crucial phrase of vagueness that had to be used, to excuse the ad hominems of certain commenters, and excuse the tacit assumption that a black person who marries a white person is making an inferior and or traitorous choice.
    ——————————————————————————————————-

    First off I must apologize for mistaking you for a “troll” during our first comment encounter.

    ^Honorable

    Like


  298. @TrojanPam

    Be courageous Pam. Don’t go making assumptions to slide yourself out of an inconvenience that may arise. Your question of days ago is still unanswered. I believe in keeping my word, I’m old fashioned like that. I shall restate:

    As to your question, I will answer you, but first: why do you ask? Is it something I’ve said or the way I’ve said it? Elaborate a little please.

    Pam, it’s simple, give me an explanation to why you asked; I’m curious and want to understand you a little more, just as you were, perhaps, trying to understand me. You and I have managed to be respectful of each other, I would like this to continue.

    Like


  299. @TrojanPam

    While the TRUTH may be unfortunate it is never so vulgar that it shouldn’t be revealed if it is TRUTHFUL

    Um, Pam, I don’t know to whom you are revealing the truth of Schlessinger’s vulgarity. When the incident ocurred I was disgusted with Schlessinger. Anyone with their head screwed on straight knows Schlessinger is piece of sh!t.

    Are you aware of someone or some number of people who need to know about what Schlessinger did. The Schlessinger post seems off topic for the thread. But maybe I’m missing some point, that’s why I asked you why you posted the Schlessinger video.

    Like


  300. @lifelearner

    I am happily married to an African-American man. It will be 11yrs this August. So don’t be stereotypical with your response. There are good “BLACK” men out there, and they aren’t all in jail, non-committing thugs, and white female worshiping dogs.

    I don’t think Jorbia has ever condemned all black American males. Also, and it’s awkward to point out something so elementary, your happy marriage is only one data point in a sea of data points. One data point does not contradict a multitude of data points showing a problem, with black American women finding marriage worthy black American males.

    Like


  301. @ Legion

    In answer to your question, the reason I asked if you were a white person is the exchange that occurred between us (mind you AFTER I had been posting responses for the last four days) — as follows:

    ——————–

    LEGION

    Please give, in your view, the top 10 or 5 or 3 or whatever most profound and egregious examples of the operation of “white supremacy” at work in the world. Or, if you don’t want to give a list, then just an explanation of how “white supremacy” is the top most unjust thing in the world.
    ——————-
    TROJAN PAM

    @ Legion
    Please re-read my responses. Then it should be obvious to all why I think white supremacy is the most unjust system on the planet regarding black and non-white people who constitute NINETY-ONE percent of the world’s population
    If you disagree, we can agree to disagree but I need not say more than all that I’ve already said

    ———————-
    LEGION

    @TrojanPam

    The thread now goes around half the Earth’s circumference. Would you make it easy on me and link the one or two comments of yours that clearly show why you think “white supremacy” is the chief injustice in the world?

    ———————–

    TROJAN PAM

    @ Legion

    Can’t do that. I’ve taken up entirely too much space on this blog. What you can do is go to the “edit” drop down list at the top page menu, go to “find” and type in “Trojan Pam” and you’ll find all my comments.

    ———————————–

    LEGION

    Legion

    @TrojanPam

    I really don’t want to wade through all your comments. You ought to know which couple of comments best serve to outline your view of “white supremacy” as the top injustice in the world. Since you know better than I where you’ve said so in the thread, it should be easy for you to give me two links. Or one link.

    ———————–
    ————————

    For you to ask me to wade through all my comments because you didn’t feel like doing it raised my antenna

    Then to ask me to hand pick the comments I made over a FOUR day period

    especially after I felt (knew) it should have been clear to anyone reading my posts where I stood on white supremacy AND why I said what I said about white supremacy

    (and I was under the impression that you had already read my posts since you responded to them),

    reminded me of a TACTIC that white people often use whenever black people are having a CONSTRUCTIVE dialogue about racism and revealing TRUTH about racism (like those two videos I just posted regarding white racists who engage in so-called interracial relationships and marriages)

    by derailing that conversation OR misdirecting that black person (or persons) into wasting time and energy OR by shaming the black person who is revealing racist behaviors on the part of white people

    Basically, it was that voice inside my head, that inner ear, that made me suspect you might be a white person

    I have spent YEARS blogging and dialoguing with white people who are posing as black people AND white people who are being deceitful and deceptive whenever racism comes up

    Of course I might be incorrect that you might be white

    which of course, if that were true, would have no bearing on our right to post here OR my being courteous to you

    but it felt like you were jerking my chain

    which is why I did not respond after i said i twice that I was NOT willing to do what you asked.

    #1 — I had posted to this thread over a period of several days so when you asked me to sum up in a few sentences all the points AFTER I had already answered your questions,

    I felt you were jerking my chain

    over the last three days it felt like a chain jerking — something that white posters often do when they’re trying to make the black person they’re dialoguing with look like a fool.

    Like


  302. @Legion–

    ^That is supposed to be a refutation of the 70% unmarried stat. It is very sad that someone could read read that article and not see the glaring flaws and strange assumptions in the reasoning of the article’s author.

    Exactly! Volumes could be written about how bizarre this one article is. But I was tired. I’ve done enough shredding for one day. :-) I know without knowing that it had to be a Black writer and most probably a Black American woman who wrote this “cover up” article. The NYT editors didn’t care or were too timid to point out all of those glaring flaws and assumptions you mentioned..After all, this is only about the unmarried Black American woman’s crisis and no national figure dares to delve beneath the surface and speak the truth about this very abnormal situation! They would only print this kind of garbage about Black American women.

    I’m not surprised at the way some Black American women who will come out of the woodwork now to aid in the cover-up. Someone needs to grow a backbone, take to a national podium, and tell Black American men once a week to marry their women who they keep saying they love. I’ve pointed out before that when those engaged in this cover up say that “most” Black American men love or marry Black women, “most” can be as little as 51%, which is the definition of “most.”

    It is also a fact that roughly 25% of Black men who got married in 2008 married non-Black women.

    Like


  303. @ Legion

    It is true (or revealed truth) because that conversation actually happened between the black female and Dr. Laura S.

    The TRUTH is many black people find out AFTER the fact that they are involved OR have been involved (dated/sexed/married) a white person who is a racist.

    And I think understanding that it is not only possible but highly PROBABLE within a system of racism is of UTMOST importance

    because many black people do not understand how racism/white supremacy works

    OR how white people can lay in bed, date or marry them and still practice it

    THAT to me is a major truth that should be revealed as often as humanly possible to any potential victims

    which is why I posted the two videos

    Like


  304. Back to the topic I think the last several Presidents have been “Rented”.

    First of all you aren’t in office that long to say you “Own” it.

    Second lobbyists and special interest groups run everything . I think that is the downfall of capitalism. The no monopoly thing was suppose to correct that. But business groups and giant mergers have made these CEO’s way too powerful. They are even immune from arrest it seems. “Too big to fail”

    Obama has fed them right from the start with that huge stimulous. He’s more like a Mob Captain who still has to answer to a bunch of bosses.

    Like


  305. @Trojan Pam… It takes two to tango.

    I have heard black men brag all the time how it’s cool to “Punish” white women in bed for “400 years” and how they make them they bit**”…. more oral sex, hair pulling, role reversal “Yes my master” That sh** ain’t ok either way and if someone white or black was treating my daughter that way I would have a hard time holding back my anger to hurt that person…. trust me. But your example of the video would put the woman in power still wrong. I think it’s more shocking cause no one says or talks like that anymore.

    Like


  306. @TrojanPam–

    I listened to a portion of both videos. Since I’m often in discussions with Black and White people where we use the descriptors “black” and “white”, it’s not clear from what Jade said what was happening with that. Re using the N-word, I absolutely wouldn’t tolerate it used in my presence by anybody and my fiance wouldn’t tolerate it either. None of the Black Americans I know will allow that word around them.

    That being said, I think someone needs to grow a backbone about that too and take to a national podium every day in this country and tell Black Americans how sick they sound using that term for any reason. I just don’t get it why so many Black Americans of whatever age have such a fondness for that term or defend the use of it. That fondness is a psychological illness.

    Black Americans are putting themselves into the pariah category with this and other types of behavior that they could change, but won’t.

    The Black man with the White girlfriend who wants him to look and act like a slave during their sex play is actually a certifiably stupid man. I’m glad that he’s with her and not with a Black woman. A man who is stupid enough to call a radio show to find out whether this is okay is also stupid in other areas.

    Like


  307. I agree with you Jorbia 100%. Blacks are sometimes given a pass not only on the N-word but on racism towards other people as well. I think that was what Dr. Laura was starting to say and it got out of control. She is a hateful nut though that lady. She’s a man hater too. I could see how it wasn’t just the context of how she used it which could be ok but the sound of her voice had jagged glass in it. I was even a little offended and I’m a proponent of “It’s just a word people” but if you use it with hate any word can be deemed as wrong.

    Like


  308. @ Trojan Pam, I commend your efforts to reveal truth. Hard task but worth trying.

    @ all: “If you do not understand White Supremacy (Racism) What it is, and how it works, everything else that you understand, will only confuse you”~ N.Fuller

    Like


  309. @ Dave

    who said:

    “I think it’s more shocking cause no one says or talks like that anymore.”

    —-

    I don’t understand your point here, since someone DID “talk” like that

    which is why I took the time to post here because there is a lack of understanding in general among the black population about white supremacy and how the practice of it has NOT significantly changed,

    only the SURFACE appearance of it

    all you have to do is read previous posts on Abagond’s blog to realize that.

    of course, I shouldn’t assume (anymore) that I’m dialoguing with a black person

    and if I’m not then it’s no surprise that the comment above was made

    no disrespect intended.

    Like


  310. @TrojanPam

    I think it’s fair for you to say that I could possibly have been “chain jerking” but if one has a sound argument they don’t have to worry about eventually being shamed or shown up somehow. I’m being totally honest with you: I wanted to get clarity on what you think and where you are coming from, because I can tell that we are very different philosophically. I didn’t want to put words in your mouth or selectively choose things you’ve said and then run with those things to indict you. I wanted you to choose your strongest positions and examples. By seeing your strongest positions and examples I get to see really what you think, and some of the tenets of Dr. Cress’ system of thought.

    (I should briefly add that being refuted is not the same as being shamed. Though sometimes we are somewhat ashamed once we have been refuted. It is part of civilized behavior to refute what is wrong and move on to something better. I hope that you do not wish to cling to ideas that you feel are potentially wrong. We should want to refine our understanding to get close to truth, this hopefully goes without saying.)

    I’m sure you can appreciate that allowing a potential opponent (debate wise, nothing more serious than that), who may try to defeat your arguments, to select from the things you’ve said is similar to allowing BP to issue their own reports about Gulf Coast clean up progress. In both cases the opponent and BP will select and issue information that is self serving. I thought I was being pretty fair in asking you to do the selecting instead of me.

    Also, I think your views were coming out in a diffuse manner because they were coming out conversationally with other commenters. It is too onerous to ask me to consolidate views that were coming out, quite naturally, in a conversational manner.

    Lastly, I still have yet to read all your discussion with Jorbia. I paid attention mainly to our exchange when we first began dialoging. I will go through the thread if time permits it. Okay, moving on time.
    —————————————————————

    TrojanPam, I am a black male. My questions to you were to find out were you were coming from and condense your points that were diffused through the thread. You’ll never catch me saying racism should be covered up, I believe it should be exposed. I’m weary of how this is done though. Sometimes people expose racism to advance the cause of justice. Sometimes the motive is less honorable. Are you trying to send Jorbia a message with that Schlessinger video? You did not want to be shamed by some slick white commenter; are you trying to shame Jorbia?
    —————————————————————-

    The thing, to me is, racism is another injustice among many injustices. I think we are losing sight of larger goals and important concerns if we just focus on the injustices of racism. I watched a little of Dr. Cress on youtube after you mentioned her. I think the allure with Cress is that she takes some things that are true and urgent (her work with her depressed patients) but then creates a theory which I don’t think is sound. Black Americans are very much under attack*, I’m very concerned that many of them have and will fall for snake oil and/or faulty social theories to explain what they see around them, because they are so desperate for answers. I’m really troubled by that.

    *But as with a lot of things in the modern world the attack is not always straightforward.
    It is sometimes in one’s face and sometimes as slippery as an eel.

    Like


  311. @ Jorbia

    It is late so I will respond tomorrow

    however, in my experience whenever a black person tries to justify their involvement with a white person by essentially blaming other black people (both black males and females do this far too frequently)

    then it is possible (but not necessarily true) that that black person feels — deep down — that they are doing something incorrect and therefore

    must put the fault on someone else

    Not saying this is true of you

    but I have seen this dynamic more times than I can count

    unfortunately, the state of black male/black female relationships was borne out of 400 years of slavery and oppression, conditions we have not recovered from and have NOT been allowed to fully recover from

    just like a man trapped inside a TB ward cannot be expected to recover from tuberculosis

    so it is unrealistic to think black male/female relationships will not have a high level of dysfunction within a system of white supremacy

    just like two prisoners in a prison camp cannot expect to relate on a normal, healthy level as long as both are both prisoners of injustice and unable to get out of that prison

    the white supremacy system uses our ignorance and disappointment and pain by TURNING us against each other and making us BLAME each other for the conditions white people created in the first place

    have a good nite

    Like


  312. *where you were coming from

    Like


  313. @ sparkle86

    All one can do is plant the seeds. Whether those seeds grow into plants with strong roots is up to the individuals

    Yes, indeed, Mr. Neely Fuller is absolutely right when he said:

    “If you do not understand White Supremacy (Racism) What it is, and how it works, everything else that you understand, will only confuse you”~ N.Fuller

    I’ve learned (the hard way) that people who aren’t open to understanding how white supremacy functions OR that it exists and controls ALL aspects of their lives AS non-white people

    will reject all the evidence of it

    bottom line,

    When the pupil is ready, a teacher will appear

    Like


  314. @ Legion

    Your post is far too long to give a quick response so I will have to do it tomorrow :-)

    a good nite to all!

    Like


  315. @ TrojanPam

    I think that racism was some way downstream of Dr. Laura’s primary problem, that being her arrogance. After years of having commercial success playing “the woman with all the answers,” she began to believe her own hype! I was never a devoted listener to her show, but I’d tune in every now and again. It was interesting hearing peoples different issues and some of her solutions. But as time went on in became clear that she didn’t see herself as giving advice, she thought she was giving THE TRUTH. It also became clear that she thought that the people who called her were somehow less intelligent and insightful than she was, and needed to quickly state their problem and then shut up and listen to her golden solutions without challenge, correction or questions.

    Of course, any real therapist will tell you that it’s impossible to make any real assessment based on a 60 second telephone call. She was pretty good at guessing and had been doing it long enough to have heard many of the problems before (in one form or another). Dr Laura forgot that she was flawed and that she was capable of being wrong. She simply didn’t see herself as the kind of person who could ever be corrected or called out by one of her callers.

    Yes, she was racist, but even worse, once it was pointed out she was too arrogant and full of herself to even consider her own racism. She sat there digging herself further and further into a hole because she refused to say, “You know, let me back up. I’m not a Black person, and I’ve never been in an interracial marriage, so maybe, just maybe… I don’t get it.” Her apology came the next day but nobody really believe it by then. She wen’t on to stream her show on the internet for a while and I understand that Sirius picked her up on satellite radio. To date she has never recovered her former listenership numbers.

    Like


  316. I am going to respond in morning.

    Like


  317. @ SugarKiss

    Given your recent and profound responses on the racial profiling thread I will be staying tuned to read to what you have to say on this thread!!!

    Like


  318. @ TrojanPam

    You’re experiencing a similar conversational game I’ve already had with Mr Legion (aka SW6). Unfortunately, or should I say fortunately for me, he believes I am “too stubborn” (his own words) to take part.

    Anyone serious enough wanting to understand your view point or position simply has to diligently look through your previous comments and dialogues with other commentators. From this they should be able to adequately deduce how you view the system of white supremacy. They can even expand this by going to your site – I did.

    Legion – Black or white. (I do believe he is Black just like Uncle Ruckus is!) Is more than adequately capable of doing this. That is if he chooses to. He can certainly do it for other commentators (Jorbia for instance) but for some reason he is too overwhelmed to do this for you?

    As it has already been pointed out, and you’ve noted, the majority of continuous objecting comments are coming from people who clearly lack REAL knowledge about the system of white supremacy.

    ALL peoples (African-Americans, European-Americans, Asian Americans etc..etc..) have been forced to live under this oppressive system. But it affects all these different groups DIFFERENTLY! Hence all the confusion. To really understand this system you need to understand how it affects ALL these groups NOT JUST YOUR OWN!

    Anyway…Good Luck with your teaching I don’t mind observing sitting quietly at the back of the classroom!

    Like


  319. @Kwamla

    You’re experiencing a similar conversational game I’ve already had with Mr Legion

    No actually, she’s not because she is showing greater courage, tolerance and forthrightness than you did in the Reading Thucydides thread.

    Is more than adequately capable of doing this. That is if he chooses to. He can certainly do it for other commentators (Jorbia for instance) but for some reason he is too overwhelmed to do this for you?

    Yes, but I have a certain philosophical fidelity with Jorbia (though I suspect she and I differ somewhat on politics). Pam is, in some measure, a philosophical opponent of mine. As I expressed above, it is actually something of a courtesy to allow her to pick her strongest cases and I expressed the problem of the diffuseness of her point of view through the thread. You are grasping at straws Kwamla.

    (I do believe he is Black just like Uncle Ruckus is!)

    This is some fictional character of self hate from American media, yes? Please show my statements of black self hate, use quotes, there’s a good chap!

    Like


  320. @dave–

    I agree with you Jorbia 100%. Blacks are sometimes given a pass not only on the N-word but on racism towards other people as well. I think that was what Dr. Laura was starting to say and it got out of control.

    When Blacks “are given a pass” to use the N-word, that’s the same as a parent overlooking when one of their children doesn’t use good manners, but insists that the other children use good manners. If all other things are pretty much equal, we already know which child is going to have the most problems in life.

    What bothers me the most about this and similar situations of Black Americans behaving badly is that Blacks refuse to police their own. A lot of them defend the behavior or they stay quiet about it, yet become furious when or if Whites or others say or do anything about the behavior.

    The use of the n-word shows that the Black person using it is mentally ill. Django Unchained was littered with that word and some Black Americans applauded the movie. My parents were speechless about that. I think my Dad cried. I couldn’t go to see it. Now that Black Americans have made Tarantino richer by paying him to call them the N-word, there will be other Whites making those movies so they can get paid too.

    When it comes to Blacks being racist towards other groups, many Blacks are prejudiced, but racism requires power. In isolated incidents and in minimal ways, a Black person may be in the position to exercise racism against a White person, but it will never be on a widespread basis and it will never last for long if it impacts more than a few Whites. That’s because Whites have the power to stop it. Ongoing racism requires sustained power.

    All groups can be the victims of racism, but some groups have the power at their fingertips to push back and stop the racism. That’s the difference. For instance, it is known that Jewish people are guaranteed to mount a massive, bludgeoning pushback when any other group in the society, even other Whites offend or try to victimize them. The other party apologizes profusely and promises to never do it again. The lesson learned is that you will pay dearly if you offend or bother Jews.

    Like


  321. Jorbia said:

    “My fiance is a White man who respects me enough to put a ring on it. How many Black American women have fiances at all or at least before they’re in their late thirties or forties? How many Black American men are trying to put a ring on any Black woman’s finger?

    So you consider it a “revelation” that my fiance is White. I’d bet that some of these Black American men who comment on here have White women girlfriends or wives, just like a good many of the Black nationalist male leaders had during the Black Power movement. They just don’t tell anybody.”

    ~I will preface my response by saying yes I’m a married to a black man and we have children. We have been happily married for over 10years and met as teenagers. (I’m in my 30’s) so the ‘back in the day’ assumptions are mute here. He’s committed to me and our family. And the kicker? Like other posters have stated, we are not an ANOMALY when it comes to the nuclear family.
    Now to address my comments about your posts on this blog: IMO, you show/express a disconnect from Black folk. I say this because before I even knew what I know now, you were very dismissive of the acknowledgment of white privilege and the need to eradicate it. You were equally dismissive of the absolute necessity that spirituality had/has with the conscious waking of our ppl, calling it the Mother Theresa (insert word). Oh, and you say “them” and “their” when referring to the black community, while Trojan Pam (I love you, you speak the truth!!) says the following:

    “…and we just can’t understand and express surprise that after 40 or so years (living UNDER the system of white supremacy still being mistreated)”
    –it rolls off her tongue so easily…

    ~However straw your arguments and responses to others’ thoughts have been, however dismissive, condescending and overly sensitive you have displayed yourself to be, often mistaking general statements as personal attacks, all the justification in the world won’t settle the issues you have with the Black man, Black relationship, Black family and your extremely linear suggestions for fixing those problems. They won’t validate your decision to marry inter-racially. Your passion for improving the black community seems technical and manufactured. (of course my opinion) and your psyche has obviously been assimilated to believe that blacks cause more problems than “they” solve.

    Also Jorbia, What did you mean by this?

    “The bottom line is you’re arguing that Black women should give their wombs only to Black men when you know that’s causing mass suffering and deaths. I know that you’re very angry, but how can you justify that? The logical conclusion that one could easily get from your argument is that Black women should just slit their wrists and get it over with. I say this because you know that, as things stand now, Black men, in aggregate, cannot or will not sustain life.”

    ~What I saw: Black women. Black men. Causing mass suffering and death. Very angry. Logical conclusion. BW slit their writs. Black men, in aggregate, cannot or will not sustain life.

    …I can’t even find a way to wrap this up…but I felt the need to express my deeper feelings about your ideas and overall etiquette on this blog and I figured it would look–like this…

    Good Day,

    SK

    Like


  322. Legion said:

    SugarKiss

    “That revelation of Jorbia’s make way more sense now to me as well. I won’t elaborate, but her past commentary even in response to my and other’s commentary definitely makes sense to me.

    You won’t elaborate because there’s no argument that you could construct against her positions, based on who she plans to marry, that would not descend into the realm of the absurd and the stupid. Deal with Jorbia’s arguments if you have competency to do so.

    You are leaving a lame ad hominem comment as a “wink, wink, nudge, nudge” to those fools who appreciate such things.”

    @Legion

    I couldn’t elaborate because I was busy. Working. And about Jorbia’s response to me, see mine above. Both you and she seem to read from the same “Condescension for Dummies” manual.

    I’m not impressed.

    Do you two share a handle or something? Your writing style (when attacking others) seems very erratically similar, at least in this thread. I’m just saying…

    I’m off to pray for my people.
    We need it.

    ~SK

    Like


  323. @Trojan Pan and Kwamla

    Kindred spirits- here to share knowledge and learn from each other. I enjoy reading and learning from each of you.

    Everyone, really.

    That’s it for real, Abagond..sorry :)

    I’ll check back later, fam.

    SK

    Like


  324. @TrojanPam–

    however, in my experience whenever a black person tries to justify their involvement with a white person by essentially blaming other black people (both black males and females do this far too frequently)

    You may be directly or indirectly referring to statements I’ve made. Other than that, I don’t know why you made this comment to me. My marriage has next to nothing to do with Black Americans. I discuss Black American male and female relationships because this is a site where commenters talk non-stop about how Whites mistreat Blacks. The foundation of the solution is to build a power base to mitigate at least some of that mistreatment and that starts with building solid families and then communities.

    then it is possible (but not necessarily true) that that black person feels — deep down — that they are doing something incorrect and therefore

    must put the fault on someone else

    Not saying this is true of you

    I would then wonder why you’re saying this to me. I’m glad you’re stating that your opinions about what you think is possible are not necessarily reality.

    but I have seen this dynamic more times than I can count

    I’ve seen this dynamic too.

    unfortunately, the state of black male/black female relationships was borne out of 400 years of slavery and oppression, conditions we have not recovered from and have NOT been allowed to fully recover from

    I disagree with the tone of fatalism in your words.That’s repugnant to me. You’re not the only one here who uses this tone. The general message here from most of the regular commenters is to just slit our wrists and end it once and for all.

    just like a man trapped inside a TB ward cannot be expected to recover from tuberculosis

    Here you continue the tone of fatalism. You’re saying there is no escape, no way out. If I were around you or people like you constantly, I probably would start using drugs. I’m just the opposite of you. I see endless routes out.

    so it is unrealistic to think black male/female relationships will not have a high level of dysfunction within a system of white supremacy

    So, you saying that Black American women have no choice but to accept a high level of dysfunction in their Black male partner. If you’re saying that Black men and women are going to bring dysfunction into their relationships, then why would I want a Black male partner?

    just like two prisoners in a prison camp cannot expect to relate on a normal, healthy level as long as both are both prisoners of injustice and unable to get out of that prison

    All people are confined in various ways. They still go on with life. So I disagree with many of your conclusions because people have choices. I can choose how to treat you, just like Mbeti did when he chose to apologize to me instead of continue to call me names. We all can choose to do something different and we should do that minute by minute, especially when what we’re doing is not getting us anywhere.

    the white supremacy system uses our ignorance and disappointment and pain by TURNING us against each other and making us BLAME each other for the conditions white people created in the first place

    You’re presenting Black Americans with a blanket excuse for their dysfunctional behavior. As I said, this is repugnant to me. I don’t care who put the gun in your hand and told you to shoot me. I believe that if you’re an adult and claim that you’re sane, you have a choice to put the gun down. If you’re not sane, you shouldn’t be out and around. At the very least, I’m going to avoid you even if you’re my parents or my child.

    You may be speaking about your own relationships and experience and I can’t deny your reality. What I object to are your conclusions in that you seem to be interweaving general facts with your own experiences and pain to prescribe medicine for others.

    Like


  325. @Sugarkiss–

    I’m glad that you got all of that out of your system. I sincerely hope you feel better.

    Like


  326. @ Jorbia

    I couldn’t help noticing how profound this paragraph from your last comment was:

    You may be speaking about your own relationships and experience and I can’t deny your reality. What I object to are your conclusions in that you seem to be interweaving general facts with your own experiences and pain to prescribe medicine for others.

    The revealing question for you is why would I call it profound?

    Like


  327. @ SugarKiss

    THANK YOU!!! :-D *VIRTUAL HIGH FIVE* (I’m out ;-) )

    Like


  328. @ Lifelearner Lol.

    @ Jorbia

    :D I feel great, Jorbia. If you have time I would love an answer to the question I asked regarding your comments.

    Thanks,

    SK

    Like


  329. @ Sugarkiss–

    Let the record show that you addressed me personally, because later you will say that I’m taking comments personally. :-)

    I’m being polite with you. I’m not sure why some of you are so interested in my responses or reactions. It would seem to me that you and a few others here could just accept that we view these issues differently. Different doesn’t mean “right” or “wrong.” It just means we have different views. Your views are not new to me, and I’m not interested in votes.

    I grew up in a home where my parents, my siblings and I had discussions about many issues almost everyday, and often, we didn’t view the issues in the same way. That was okay. So I express my views on here, but on here, some of you obviously seem almost hurt, highly irritated, take it personally, engage in name-calling or snide remarks when we don’t see things the same. That’s the kind of behavior that causes fighting. I don’t have time to fight right now. Besides that, I pick my battles.

    So, if you have more opinions to express, just do it. Purging is good for you but it doesn’t mean your purges have anything to do with me.

    Better still, it would be much more valuable to use forums such as this to discuss ideas for resolving some of the pressing issues in the Black American community. I know this is a thread about the president, but I don’t have a pipeline to him.

    Like


  330. Jorbia wrote:

    “Honestly, I’ve asked the same question on here. A lot of people on both sides of the aisle silently wonder about that. My fiance asked me that too. It’s ironic that so many Black American men will moan on here and practically anywhere else about White “supremacy” and call Whites all kinds of foul things, but when they get a few dollars they go and buy a blonde or a light woman. Black American men especially have become a huge embarrassment to many in the Black world in doing that. They talk one way and walk differently. It’s such a gigantic contradiction until most people don’t take them seriously. Many Black American women definitely don’t trust Black American men and that’s a main reason why they don’t.

    *******

    WOULD THAT INCLUDE YOU, JORBIA???

    Could this be the reason that YOU’RE CHOOSING to marry a white man? Because YOU do not (collectively) TRUST black men??

    We are an embarrassment and are not to be taken seriously – by you?
    Then what could possibly possess her sweetness, the most highest highness to be here, amongst the lowest black dregs on the planet?

    Please tell me specifically how you’ve come to KNOW that when/if the men on THIS board might come into a few dollars, we’ll go looking for a “blonde or a light woman?”

    Oh, and please show me where the men “here” have called “Whites all kinds of foul things…”

    You have the most prolific IMAGINATION – and amazing powers of projection – I’ve seen in a long time.

    If you were here to share your positive ideas and thoughts on HOW the community could move forward very few here would take issue with you. But you’re like a dizzy and angry whirlwind looking for any and every opportunity to spew your vitriol and contempt for black americans, particularly black men.

    If you’re about to marry the man of your dreams, why be angry with us UNSUITABLE, lowly, powerless, and untrustworthy black men?

    Something ain’t adding up here!

    Like


  331. @Abagond

    Obama was not chosen by rank and file democrats. The powerbrokers in the party wanted Obama because he was to the left of Hillary on many issues. He has never displayed a backbone. Even in the Illinois legislature, he showed fear and indecisiveness when it came to voting on controversial legislation. As you stated Abagond, he has not said a word about decreasing the number of black people in the penal system, says nothing about ridding our neighborhoods of the black kkk, pushes abortion as if he was a eugenicist, bends over backwards for illegal-immigrants, tolerates islamic terrorism in Africa, etc. Obama is a “Hot Mess” in every sense of the word. Black people need to call a spade a spade…We Messed Up!

    GoTeam

    Like


  332. @Matari–

    Could this be the reason that YOU’RE CHOOSING to marry a white man?

    Let the record show that you’ve transferred a comment I made on another thread to inject my marriage into this discussion again.

    I am CHOOSING to marry a man who I love, who loves me, and who asked me to marry him.

    To the rest of your diatribe, I’ll just give a blanket response. Many people want to exhibit certain behaviors and then get angry when others draw their own conclusions about that behavior. You can’t control the conclusions that others draw. I also disagree with the conclusions that others draw sometimes (as with some of TrojanPam’s conclusions), but I know I can’t stop that.

    So, I can accept that we just don’t agree.

    Like


  333. no he is not rented he was bought and paid for and they have a receipt for his behind. but on the bright side if they have use a black puppet in the white house our open enemies are getting desperate. too many wise comments sum up this obvious pump fake so all that is left for me to say is a black enemy is far more dangerous because he can get close enough to kill you

    Like


  334. Guys, I am tired of this. I have been reading abagonds blog for awhile now but not so much recently.

    Why are we all just talking endlessly? Nothing ever changes! Will anything ever change?

    Cmon guys! Someone do something already…. End this nightmare black people are in??? Enough with the talking and more with the action. I’d do something but I am not equipped for such stuff..

    Jorbia is marrying a white guy? Good for her! There!! Now for the rest of us can we like I don’t know, should I repeat it, DO SOMETHING!!!

    TrojanPam was wonderful in her/his comments but you know what, they are just WORDS! Cmon TROJANPAM, do something!!! Get this ball rolling…

    To answer abagonds question,

    Yes, Obama is a rented negro!! If you think no, then ok! good for you…

    All this jibber jabbering is making my head spin. We are jibber jabbering ourselves into oblivion.

    Like


  335. @ Jorbia,

    Why do you talk about black people like you aren’t black yourself?

    I know you are marrying a white guy but I don’t think that is enough to abdicate you from the black community or black issues… Btw congratulations! It’s a big deal, no??

    Back to the issue at hand, I hope you know your kids will be mixed race! They will have to deal with this stuff… This sadly is the reality. Your fate, there fate is tied to the fate of the black race. You are one of us Jorbia, doesn’t matter who you marry!!!

    Maybe you need a reminder of this?

    Anyways,

    Why is it that black people never agree on anything? Look at this blog, WE NEVER AGREE!!

    But here is the head turner, White people don’t agree with each other also, BUT somehow they manage to get stuff done!!!

    How does this work?

    We disagree and are reduced to the state of squabbling toddlers and these other guys disagree and build a whole global empire??

    Guys seriously, we need to start figuring this stuff out! We need to understand that our fates are collectively tied together. We either all rise to the top together or we will all SINK down to the very bottom together. Oh wait, we are already at the bottom, oh goody…

    Like


  336. Finally!!! Thank you!! I said this weeks ago. We all know what the problem is … so do we keep talking about the problem and ignoring discussing possible solutions.

    I have the same issues with the discussion of Immigration. We know what the problem is … can we now discuss a solution.

    For those who thought President Obama was going to become Superman and save us all from our sad collective history … I say wake up. America didn’t elect a “Black” man, they elected a leader. America didn’t elect one man to help only one group.

    For those who continue to weep for a past lost, destroyed and tarnished … the next time ask a Native American who’s entire family, genelogy, culture, language and history were wiped away … they haven’t had a President, they barely have a few elected officials looking out for their “interest” … ask them how they feel about us demanding 40 Acres in reparations. I wasn’t a slave, but I would have been. My parents weren’t slaves, but they would have been. My grandparents weren’t slave, but they would have been. I do not know of any living relative who remembers being enslaved. My great-grandparents weren’t slaves, but they would have been. The greatest part about 2013, I don’t have to think, act or pretend I was a slave. Because I was never a slave. I’m sorry my ancestors were, but I’m fully knowledge to know that all my ancestors at one point or another were either slavers or ensalved themselves. So for 150 years … you mean to say, we can’t stop wallowing in the pain, we must constantly be reminded that once upon a time in history … active word being history … let’s reopen wounds so we have an excuse why far too many of us keep making poor personal decisions?

    For those who are bi-racial, life isn’t easier, good luck.
    For those hating on their beautiful skin tone … stop. God gave you a gift. Work it.
    For those hating on their hair … God gave you hair, some people don’t have any. Work it.
    For those hating history … it sucks … it’s over … stop reliving it, just to make today’s masters happy. Learn it, so you don’t fall vicitm to repeating it.

    There is never a reason to breed hate, and every culture, religion race and ethnic group has managed to breed hate. … Black, white, brown, red, yellow … we are all bound to bump into a jerk at some point in our lives. No need to give that jerk power over our emotions and well being.

    It’s a new world and it will be a world of OUR own design.

    Like


  337. @Wilson–

    Why do you talk about black people like you aren’t black yourself?

    I know you are marrying a white guy but I don’t think that is enough to abdicate you from the black community or black issues

    After calling me names, making all kinds of snide comments, screaming at me in all caps, verbal abuse, accusations, making constant snotty references to my “white” fiance as you just did, and trying to interrogate me, why would any of you then turn around and expect me to hold hands with you in the Black fold. White people may hate me, but I only get treated like this by Blacks.

    Btw congratulations! It’s a big deal, no??

    The last one of you who said something like that launched a tirade against me. So, I guess I should duck.

    Back to the issue at hand, I hope you know your kids will be mixed race! They will have to deal with this stuff… This sadly is the reality. Your fate, there fate is tied to the fate of the black race. You are one of us Jorbia, doesn’t matter who you marry!!!

    Maybe you need a reminder of this?

    Guess you’re the one who was sent to remind me of that. Job done.

    Anyways,

    Why is it that black people never agree on anything? Look at this blog, WE NEVER AGREE!!

    I thought that most of you do agree, but for one thing, your egos are enormous. So, the way Black people communicate with each other is a big part of the problem. That’s why I said on here weeks ago that Blacks need to learn how to communicate with each other. Notice how Blacks on here start to call names and then try to batter a person into submission as soon as they detect any disagreement. Not effective with some people and it turns others into passive aggressive or silent enemies who will wait for their chance to sabotage.

    But here is the head turner, White people don’t agree with each other also, BUT somehow they manage to get stuff done!!!

    How does this work?

    It’s their priorities and the way they disagree.

    We disagree and are reduced to the state of squabbling toddlers and these other guys disagree and build a whole global empire??

    First of all, you need more “thinkers” vs “feelers.” Notice I didn’t say get rid of the feelers. I actually presented some solutions and someone tried to rip a hole in me for doing that. Whites would be more interested in my ideas rather than in whether I feel their pain or my personality. Secondly, egos need to be checked to control the tantrums. You can’t organize or develop anything when the adults are in a constant pre-tantrum stage or are having full-blown tantrums. Thirdly, Blacks need to downplay history and stop with the excuses about why they just can’t do better.

    Guys seriously, we need to start figuring this stuff out! We need to understand that our fates are collectively tied together.

    Communication skills are a priority. Then, self-control and honesty are just as important. IMO, Black Americans are not being honest about what is causing them to sink or remain at the bottom.

    Like


  338. Mr. Wilson,

    Okay, Sir.

    You said that WE need to do something… and you said that YOU’RE NOT EQUIPPED for such stuff.

    What specifically is the equipment (skills) that you (and others) are lacking?

    Money?
    Skills, gifts and talents re:
    Leadership
    Knowledge
    Organization

    I would say that the most important thing preventing our community from moving forward is TRUST. Because a few of us have money and many of us have those other things on that list. But we don’t seem to have much trust for each other .. so WHAT CAN WE DO without trust, and how do you (or anyone else here) propose to grow and cultivate the type of TRUST and dedication needed to do SOMETHING positive for our collective betterment??

    I’m listening – ‘coz I’m just like you, desiring to see US DO SOMETHING – FOR US.
    In the meantime, perhaps Abagond might consider starting a thread devoted to positive things we’re doing for ourselves here, and through out the diaspora. It could be a treasure trove of methods that produces black successes that can be replicated.

    Like


  339. @ Matari

    What do you think about the historic Black organizations. The Urban League, NAACP, UNCF, etc.?

    Like


  340. @ Legion: I revcieved what you said on DOAN. I’m learning It’s ok to respectable agree to disagree. And I’m learning about critical and analytical thinking. I’m learning different things from everyone. It is interesting all the different viewpoints and perspectives. It is something I’m relearning to respectably agree to disagree without being disagreeable. Thanks. Nothing but love and respect for you Legion.

    Like


  341. King

    I’m not sure what I think about these organizations as they exist today. Their collective leadership seems more quiet and subdued now than they were during and prior to the civil rights era, at their height. For all I know, they could still be doing some great stuff – but I don’t know.

    What do *you* think about those organizations?

    Like


  342. I tend to agree. I think their best days were during and prior to the civil rights era but that all organizations are subject to the tendency to lose their momentum, relevancy, and vision. Not to say that that they don’t do any good work, but they don’t seem to be addressing important issues as they once did.

    But once upon a time, these organizations, and the movement that formed them, were the wonder of the world. Talk about “doing something?” The DID something back in those days, and we have lost our way.

    Like


  343. @ King & Matari: I wondered about this as well. But I didn’t have anyone to dialouge about this with. I wondered about the relevancy of these organiztions and there effectivness. There are many things to be addressed in our communities. it seems in like before and during the civil rights era they were effective in leadership. In present day not so much. What do you gentelmen say?

    Like


  344. Well Mary, when is the last time you heard of these groups taking a big stand for or against something important and relevant? How many Black people today look at these organizations as a place to go to work out problems? I mean, they have history behind them, they have name recognition, buildings to work out of (that are paid for). But still, they don’t seem to be nearly what they once were.

    Do you know that from the outside, many other races look at Blacks as having been the most successful at banding together, demanding justice and equality, and changing a society. But these days we’re a long way from that, aren’t we? It’s as if, Once they achieved their goals, they couldn’t adapt to the next level of goals and needs. But it seems crazy to have had so much and for us to now be trying to figure out the basics like TRUST and COMMONALITY. What happened?

    Like


  345. @ King : We are on the same page my brother. i was just wondering about all of this. And you said everything I have been thinking about for the past 10 years. Thanks for your input.

    Like


  346. “What do you gentlemen say?”

    ********

    Ms. Mary

    I say with the loss of Malcolm and Martin, the death blow dealt to the Black Panther Party, the current negative attributes/messages of black music, the downward momentum of the Black Muslims (NOI/FOI) – THE LACK OF MORAL EFFECTIVENESS in a compromised and increasingly corrupt Black Church – and the Reverends A. Sharpton and J Jackson, the nails in the coffin of the Black Power/Black Pride movement, I could go on …. things seem more than bleak.

    There are some rays of light (success stories) out there, but the overall prognosis *seems* overwhelmingly – not good. In spite of this junk, there’s a growing contingent of black folks who are waking up to the urgency of our situation and survival. The question is how do we turn back the tide, assuming it can even be turned? How do we manufacture greater – much greater – solidarity, cooperation and trust?

    Like


  347. @ Matari; You better PREACH!!!

    Like


  348. “…the current negative attributes/messages of black music, the downward momentum of the Black Muslims (NOI/FOI) – THE LACK OF MORAL EFFECTIVENESS in a compromised and increasingly corrupt Black Church…

    The question is how do we turn back the tide, assuming it can even be turned?

    If you know the problem then you also know the solution.

    Like


  349. Matari said:

    “I would say that the most important thing preventing our community from moving forward is TRUST. Because a few of us have money and many of us have those other things on that list. But we don’t seem to have much trust for each other .. so WHAT CAN WE DO without trust, and how do you (or anyone else here) propose to grow and cultivate the type of TRUST and dedication needed to do SOMETHING positive for our collective betterment??”

    I am in 1000% agreement.

    I think the vetting process of working with individuals and groups we can trust has become tedious and more cynical when corporate America can throw money at these groups or individuals…buy them out and/or just plain media silence them. Even worse when they are infiltrated from the inside because, admit it, the 15 minutes of fame phenomena is VERY tempting to today’s youth.

    Trojan Pam listed and explained the reason behind our madness extremely well and I think that one of the places we can start is at home, everyone has a dwelling place. With re-education of our youth coupled with re-ignition of the fire of wanting to learn and to teach each other. Man, the benefits would (theoretically) quickly outweigh any obstacles/societal risks (like outright sabotage)

    We have to start the process of unlearning this mass conditioning of America’s citizens through all media outlets worldwide. Turn off the TV and go outside and congregate more. Even PUBLISHING collections of ideas and of lost history can provide fuel for further education and spiritual development. I know this is already being done but the pushing and outward support of these efforts would start MANY fruitful conversations. We can all support each other in this way using the web and our blogs, family members, friends…

    I believe we have many resources at our disposal right now. We just need a “group intent” based on TRUST and other common goals of betterment.

    I am not speaking of formal education, I have learned so much through platforms like this and it only cost me my monthly internet bill. E readers allow for private, uninterrupted, personal reading these days. On a local level, we have the resources to at the very least, equip ourselves with knowledge about our history, our spirituality…and work our way outward with building support group that also promote these ideas.

    It’s inspiring to me, the amount of brain power and sheer desire for change bursting through these forums. I think we are all learning from each other and everything evolves in time.

    **********
    As an aside, I am a supporter of healthy debate, it breeds ideas and reinforces conviction, creativity and it forces you at the very least to research the reasons you believe and defend the ideals that you do.

    I feel that we are vetting each other, if you will, on these threads sometimes. It’s the reason a “troll” is so easily recognized while posters like Trojan Pam are so well received because of her open approach and desire to spread unfiltered information.

    As much we all want to rise up and be a hand in REAL, sustainable growth and prosperity in our communities, we,or I, would want to work with and for those who put themselves after the cause.

    How many of you remember Farrakhan’s million man march? Would you agree that we don’t even live in a climate that would support such a public display of support without harboring “reverse racist” and other kinds of ignorant, close minded claims?

    There is a reason the ninja is rarely seen or heard until they are ready to strike…

    I’m just saying…

    SK

    Like


  350. @Matari, I agree.

    The Black community is in shambles. We lack a TRUE leader to lead us. We lack the morals to get married before having the child, thus seventy percent of Black kids were born out of wedlock. Black music today is nothing but a mockery and joke! Who supports these stupid CRAP ”artists”, 2 Chainz and Lil Wayne etc? These men and women should be boycotted for promoting sex, drugs, and misoyngnist views of women in their trashy ”music” and selling this crap to teens. Now, I stopped listening to Rap music for that reason.

    Plus many Black teens aren’t aware of their history and aren’t aware how racist this society is at large.

    Many Black ”preachers” are only out for money not preaching the Word of God to people!

    There is a lack of morals in our communities!

    Honestly I believe that integration made things worse for the Black community. I am not blaming all of our problems on integration or the White man but we really need to fix our communities for the better.

    Confessions of a ”know it all” 17 year old girl who amazes her many of her White classmates in class with her answers.

    Like


  351. @ Adeen

    Agreed. You are brave and amazing! Please keep at it! And surround yourself with friends that support your ideals, whether consciously or subconsciously. Just continue to raise awareness with your thoughts and actions, sister.

    It’s bad out here, the junk food has extended from the fast food lines to the radio waves and digital connections.

    About the black entertainment industry at large….it’d be a huge joke if it wasn’t so sad and pathetic.

    My children (one who is a teenager) don’t listen to the radio or watch music videos in my house. I’d rather they watch a sponge, with a best friend who is starfish, talk to a squirrel, lol.

    SK

    Like


  352. We lack a TRUE leader to lead us. We lack the morals to get married before having the child, thus seventy percent of Black kids were born out of wedlock. Black music today is nothing but a mockery and joke! Who supports these stupid CRAP ”artists”, 2 Chainz and Lil Wayne etc? These men and women should be boycotted for promoting sex, drugs, and misoyngnist views of women in their trashy ”music” and selling this crap to teens. Now, I stopped listening to Rap music for that reason.

    Hmmm…. there may be hope yet.

    Like


  353. @ Jorbia,

    You sound hurt and to me your hurt comes from somewhere other than this blog. I think you need to investigate this. I don’t want to say this but it looks like it’s festering in you to the point deep down you might not like yourself that much. You then take this and project it outwards to those who look like you.

    I agree with Matari. Trust is the biggest thing.

    How do we build Trust? If there is one thing we lack, it is Trust and maybe for good reason, because we are all looking out for our own individual self. We don’t know how to work with each other. We’d rather remain enslaved than work with each other, that’s how much we distrust each other.

    If every black person decided to Trust another black person and see the other black person as an extension of themselves, then we would easily get ourselves out of the mess we are in. Individually we might lack the necessary skills or abilities but as a whole, we must surely encapsulate every possible ability, talent and resources required to lift ourselves up.

    So yes, Trust is a key requirement.

    Also, communication. We can’t do anything if we can’t effectively communicate with each other and a big part of communication is empathy.

    Basically I think we just have to be better human beings.

    What do I mean?

    ——————————————————————————————–

    Imagine you are in a plane and it crashes in a huge forest in the middle of nowhere. There is a couple of survivors, you come out and get out from the wreck to find yourself in a vast wilderness. No food, no shelter no nothing.

    What will you do?

    You will co-operate with each other. You’d look out for each other. You’ll literally become extensions of each other because the only hope, the only way out is if you all work together.

    If everyone goes out by themselves to do there own thing thinking individually they stand the best chance of getting out alive as it were, then chances are NO ONE will get out alive. Don’t forget you all are in a situation that is new, in an unknown place facing unknown obstacles.

    Yet out here, in so-called civilization us black people might as well be lost in a vast wilderness and we all think we can make it out by our own individual efforts. In fact we make it a point not to trust each other and maybe to take advantage of each other.

    So I have no idea how we build ourselves up, how we learn to communicate with and trust each other in a way that recognizes we are not only individual human beings but also part of a whole. Figuring this out is a key requirement I think, as Matari said.

    Like


  354. @ Wilson

    Great analogy, really. Many points I communicated as well. Wehave always had the talent for growth and change.

    SK

    Like


  355. @mary burrell

    Ah! Mary, I’m glad you got the message and took to it well. Some of the first comments I ever read of yours were at DOAN. From the first, I thought to myself, “this woman has an open mind, she wants to learn.” And it’s always seemed to me you want to learn things of relevance and expand your outlook with meaningful knowledge.

    And I’m learning about critical and analytical thinking.

    That is great; I’m doing the same thing thing. It’s something that has to become not just something you do but something you can’t help doing because it’s a part of you. Jorbia raised the issue of “power” in the American racism against blacks thread. I’d say critical and analytical thinking are a first step to having greater power, firstly over oneself and to a limited extent the outer world. Critical thinking is by no means the whole recipe for power but it’s an important part.

    It is interesting all the different viewpoints and perspectives.

    Yes, a sea of information can be very interesting. But can reach a problem point: How to make all the information into a coherent body of thoughts and ideas useful to the person/thinker/citizen? A blog can get one going on some new outlook, but there’s no substitute for books, reflection and then discussion with friends/family etc. It gets the information to gel into something personal and useful. Discussion with opponents is excellent too; it forces you to think more deeply about your positions. (Both parties have to be observing some level of integrity for this to work.)
    —————–

    Mary, you humble me; my love and respect to you as well.

    Like


  356. SW6=Legion

    had a wordpress glitch there.

    Like


  357. @Wilson

    Re: doing something!

    Uh, yeah, agreed! Did you view the Mumia video above? What do you think?

    https://abagond.wordpress.com/2013/02/13/is-obama-a-rented-negro/#comment-160698

    Like


  358. @ Wilson, Matari, stilettotreehugger, Adeen, SugarKiss, King, mary burrell and Jorbia

    Everyone who has contributed comments here is part of that solution. We all know collectively what the problems or “OUR” problems are. A simple reading of all the past contributions from everyone listed here will tell you this (including myself)

    But we all equally, and more importantly, know what the solutions to those problems are too. If WE are the problem then WE are also the SOLUTION TOO!

    This is a key change of focus to appreciate. We can all blame each other for not acting out solutions we suggest. But who is left to do them if no one wants to carry them them out?… We are!

    Just like there is no one SOLUTION to our problems that solves everything. There is no one person or Leader who can or should be expected to solve everything. (This goes for having a Black President too) They can’t because the deep and complex issues are too numerous and too many.

    But we can so easily forget this……SO TOO are the SOLUTIONS! The solutions can be deep complex and numerous too!

    Many people can be put off when solutions are explained in this way. We all want solutions to be simple, plain and straight forward so we go away and put them into action. Nothing wrong with that. They can be and many are. But some require longer time to work out. And we all instinctively know and understand the ones that require this time. So why not just give it this time…..! This is not about being patient. Its about being practical!

    The simplest step any of us can take towards implementing what we consider to be a solution is to be our own leader for that solution. It doesn’t matter how big or small that solution is. If we decide to hold ourselves accountable for the implementation of that solution then we know it will get done!

    That is it plain and simple. ..Anything else we can accomplish will rapidly build on this.

    Lets take just one example everyone named above has already successfully implemented and achieved:

    “Having this discussion, on this topic, at this time, on this blog”

    This may seem small, simple even trivial but its part of building that deep and more complex solution that will eventually emerge. This is not a matter of having simple faith its about Practising What you Know you can Already Do.

    You ALL chose to take part. You equally could have simply read comments and moved on…But you didn’t.! That action alone should mean something…

    So if one solution is TRUST and you wish to implement this. Start trusting others and be accountable for your own success by believing in this. Then Let it build from there…

    Like


  359. Why is it that black people never agree on anything? Look at this blog, WE NEVER AGREE!!

    Well, we all love Bulanik, that counts for something, doesn’t it. LOL :D

    Heh, I thought it was time for a little levity.

    Like


  360. I’m not going to read over all 300+ comments so I’m sure my opinion was echoed many times above, but I’ll just throw in my opinion as well.

    He is walking on a tight-rope with regards to racial matters. Any black man that came off as a “black activist” or an “angry black man” would be unelectable as president. No matter how tactfully the issue of race were addressed. And if he made such gestures after winning the white house it would considerably reduce his political capital and and be a gift to Republicans in congress during mid-terms.

    Secondly, race is nowhere near the top of things that concern most voters. At least the issues a president has any actual control over. I’m sure this is true even if you poll black people. Most Americans are looking for a rebounding economy, jobs, wages that keep up with inflation, to see their housing values rise, an exit strategy for the wars, affordable education, things of that sort. I doubt that anything race-related would even make the top 10 list. Would you seriously advice him to make race a centerpiece of his presidential policy? Do you realize the harm that would do to his ability to even govern the country? If not, you are simply not being a realist. Look what happen with the Henry Louis Gates matter? He made a thoroughly uncontroversial statement(in my opinion) and whites went into DEFCON. The last thing Obama wants is to get bogged down by racial matters.

    Unfortunately, being the first black president of a majority white nation, he has very narrow constraints to maneuver within. We know that most whites are generally oblivious about race and white privilege. Anything he says that could be construed as pro-black is going to have him characterized as some sort of angry black nationalist president. As moderate as Obama is, even still he had people like Glenn Beck accusing Obama of seeking reparations and that his taxation policies amount to “white slavery”. Yes, I actually heard him say this shit on TV. This is the type of batshit crazy inanity that was coming from the right before he was even elected. You could only imagine what would’ve happened if he began addressing race. He’d then be the “anti-white/pro-black” president.

    Obama did what he had to do. He distanced himself from race. I know deep down he’d like to address it and that he identifies with the black community. But the pragmatist that he is, he’s just avoiding it, knowing what the consequences will be. Just cut the brotha some slack. The same would unfold if we had any other black(of half black) man as president in a democratic white majority nation. It’s not his fault.

    Like


  361. @Adeen

    We lack a TRUE leader to lead us.

    Oooh! Little flame*, please be careful. We ought not submit to being a flock of imbecile sheep following some master who has all the answers. Let’s pretend the leader is totally incorruptible (not possible, but we’ll pretend). Little flame, wanna know how to destroy a movement of millions in simple steps? Kill the leaders, bam! Movement dead.

    Alice Walker said somewhere that, “We are the ones we have been waiting for.”

    Forget about leaders baby girl, that’s an old paradigm of the past, with dubious use for us today.
    ——————————
    *Adeen means “little flame” or “little fire” in Ireland.

    Like


  362. !

    B! You’re back! Cool!
    ——————————
    Legion, my dear, I always under-estimate my comedic value…

    Darlin’ c’mon, that’s not how I meant it, you know that.

    We do all love you. <———— There no qualifications of any sort!

    Like


  363. ^Yes, “Aideen” looks more “Irish” with “Adeen” being the expected (anglo?) change.

    Like


  364. @Bulanik

    I’m not laughing at you, sheesh!
    ————————————————

    There’s a lot to learn here.

    Yes, one of those things, according to Kwamla, is that I am a self hating negro of some sort. “Uncle Ruckus” was the term he used, quite droll!

    Me self hating? Just because I let it slip that I hail from a family of Carribbean red necks. I thought that would stay between you and me. :D

    https://abagond.wordpress.com/2012/10/15/of-mixed-race-identities/#comment-149724

    ———————————-

    Ok, I’m just venting, I’m not tryin’ to get you in the middle, you conversate with both of us. Again, proof that we all love you! So there!

    I need to get some shut eye, ciao!

    Like


  365. @Wilson–

    You sound hurt and to me your hurt comes from somewhere other than this blog. I think you need to investigate this. I don’t want to say this but it looks like it’s festering in you to the point deep down you might not like yourself that much. You then take this and project it outwards to those who look like you.

    You and your co-signers just don’t know what to do with me, so now you’ve put on your Dr. Freud hat. Psychoanalysis? Because you and they don’t like some of what I say, you’re now trying to discredit me as someone with a “deep down” “festering” emotional problem that you “don;t want to say.” :-) Flimsy.

    What’s happened here is that some of you have tried to shut me up or force me to agree with you, and when that didn’t work, the group of you then proceeded to try to batter me. I know that you expected me to either shut up or run away, but I will do neither because that’s not my nature. By saying that I “sound hurt and it must come from somewhere else other than this blog” is like a wife-beating husband who blames the big lump on his battered wife’s head on the door hitting her. So the perfect analogy for this is the battered wife syndrome, except that in cyberspace, the battered wife cannot be beaten unconscious or killed. So, you then proceeded to try to discredit me by labeling me with emotional issues.

    However, I’m back.

    I summarized in my comment above some of what you (plural) have hurled at me, but I am not hurt because I expected it. I’m used to Blacks behaving that way when another Black person won’t adopt the party line. I even know what the next step will be.

    I’ve contributed some solutions here whereas most of you talk non-stop about history and the problems. Yet I actually read above where you and some of your co-signers are now talking about my ideas or echoing them. For instance, I brought to the forefront the ideas of critical need for better communication skills, developing people from the inside out, solid family and community building, organizing as small groups to buy land, small businesses to create employment for some Blacks, but you can’t bring yourselves to give me credit the ideas I’ve contributed toward solutions. Black Americans aren’t going to make progress without these solutions I’ve presented.. I’m not saying these are original ideas, but I’m the one who brought them of recent to the threads I’ve participated in. Remember, other people are reading the threads. They know who brought these ideas, of recent.

    So, you’re attempting to psychoanalyze me as someone with emotional issues, while you skim off my ideas without giving me credit.

    Describing this behavior as sneaky is almost a compliment.

    And you wonder about trust-building.

    Like


  366. Kwamla, you’re spot on again!

    “Having this discussion, on this topic, at this time, on this blog”

    “This may seem small, simple even trivial but its part of building that deep and more complex solution that will eventually emerge. This is not a matter of having simple faith its about Practising What you Know you can Already Do.

    You ALL chose to take part. You equally could have simply read comments and moved on…But you didn’t! That action alone should mean something…”

    ~I am so with you on this! The here and now is all we have. And for the many of us who want start growth and change, the exchange of ideas is never a bad place to start in my opinion! The really great thing about this is that many sentiments and ideas have been stated more than once, and imo, that’s like a popular vote.

    It reminds me of the many steps that are required to erect a building. The study of landscape, climate, whether or the foundation will handle such a task and the overall design to best fit the chosen location–all of these steps are integral…and they are also just the beginning.

    SK

    Like


  367. Let me say just a bit about Jorbia:

    There is nothing wrong with Jorbia. She comes from a different perspective than many and has the uncomfortable habit of speaking her different perspective in the face of opposition. Sometimes I agree, sometimes I do not, but WE NEED DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES.

    It seems amazing that even on a thread entitled, “Is Obama a Rented Negro” that so many seem to still believe that Democratic Party Liberalism is the only viewpoint that Blacks should hold. Liberalism has failed us (obviously) just as much as Conservatism has—we need synthesis. We need people in BOTH parties and with both perspectives. The automatic assumption that a Black person who holds a contrary idea or viewpoint must be self-hating is both arrogant and dangerous.

    Legion: “We ought not submit to being a flock of imbecile sheep following some master who has all the answers.”

    P.S.

    @ Jorbia

    Congratulations on your engagement! I wish you and your future husband every happiness. My best to both of you.

    Like


  368. @King–

    Congratulations on your engagement! I wish you and your future husband every happiness. My best to both of you.

    Thank you!

    Like


  369. @ Jorbia:

    Oh, how wonderful! Congrats to you and your hubby-to-be! I’m so excited for you! :)

    Like


  370. @Leigh204–

    Oh, how wonderful! Congrats to you and your hubby-to-be! I’m so excited for you!

    Thank you. We’re happy to have found each other and we’re getting married on the day after my 27th birthday!

    Anyway, a blanket thanks in advance for any other congratulatory comments, but I don’t want this thread to be pulled any further off-topic.

    Like


  371. By telling people “NO” … Saying “NO” seems to inspire people to work towards a yes. …. No you can’t have an education … suddenly people will break down the doors to get an education. NO you can not improve on thyself and wham people will work to improve themselves, just to prove they can do it.

    Someone mentioned how strong and organized people of color were during the civil rights movement … that’s because they were all busy trying to make a “NO” into a “YES” … as soon as our community fought and died to get that “yes”, that we soon after threw it out in the trash … “you ain’t going to force me to go to school” … “you ain’t going to force me to support my community” … “you ain’t the boss of me” … “I don’t need to care for my family, I’ll make the government do it, after all they owe me for what they did to my ancestors”

    So as soon as we got that “YES” … we threw it away like it was trash. And in return we now have the following attitudes, that we love to blame on “White Privilege”
    – “So what if people died to have the right to vote!! I don’t have to vote”

    – “So what if people died to have freedom. I’m going to do what I want to do, so what about the consequences.”
    – “So what people died to have an education. You ain’t forcing me against my will, what am I some slave?”

    – “So what people died to have a viable Black commerce, I don’t need to spend my money in the Black Community or in Black businesses … Louis Vuitton and Gucci have earned my business”

    – “So what it’s NOT my problem, my child don’t know how to read, that’s the schools problem.”

    We did far better as a community when we had a united “enemy” that we were intent on surviving from … and at that time we weren’t our own enemy … we did better when we depended and needed each other.

    Now we are quick to sell us out, sell our souls to materialistic items … we stop educating ourselves, because we can, but it doesn’t mean we should.

    We’ve become consumers and not producers.

    We need to stop blaming other people for actions we took upon ourselves … Had the first (second, third, fourth and so on) African tribal chief said no to the first (second, third, fourth and so on) Slave buyer, history would have been different. Had that Black assassin who agreed to kill Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. and then the other agreed to kill Malcolm X, instead of saying NO, I won’t take any part of it and if all wanna be Black assassins had said NO … history today would have been different.

    Had Malinche not assisted Cortez … history for all of us would have been different.

    We sold our souls and now the grim reaper wants to collect and far too many of us are laying down and allowing ourselves to be run over and killed … by this train of progress. Leaving our own selves out in the cold.

    Sad.

    Like


  372. @King

    I doubt that there is hope that it will change for the better. Time seem to be getting worse and most Black Americans don’t know where they came from so how will they know where they are going in life? I really believe they should know their history first.

    The descendants of Black American slaves, well, their whole heritage and culture was taken away from them by the English and other European slave owners.
    Many of the problems we have today is rooted in slavery and in the past but sadly we never learn from the past!

    Like


  373. I meant that you are the hope.

    Like


  374. @Bulanik–

    (Well, anyway Jorbia — I am with Leigh204 and King and others — yes — it IS wonderful. I who only wish you congratulations and jubilations on your forthcoming nuptials!)

    ;-)Thanks!

    @Stillettotreehugger–

    We need to stop blaming other people for actions we took upon ourselves … Had the first (second, third, fourth and so on) African tribal chief said no to the first (second, third, fourth and so on) Slave buyer, history would have been different. . . .

    That’s why Blacks need to learn to have smoother communication with each other for the sake of building strong relationships. People will try to protect their strong ties.

    Many people constantly say that many Black Americans don’t like each other and focus on the history of that, and they leave it at that. The focus doesn’t need to be on why or history. It needs to be on changing that dynamic in the present. Many interactions between Black Americans leave one or both parties irritated or silently angry. An angry person can easily become a potential enemy who will trip you up or sabotage you when they get a chance.

    I’ll be honest and say that if I had the perfect solution for Blacks right now, I wouldn’t want to share it with some in this forum because of what they’ve hurled at me, not my arguments.

    So, there are Black people who could help needier Black people, but they won’t because of how they’ve been mistreated by needier Blacks. We all have to be held accountable, not just middle class Blacks or those with money. Poor Black people have to be held just as accountable and somebody needs to grow a backbone and tell them that, without flinching. Every Black adult should be expected to practice good manners or be courteous with each other, whether they have money or not.

    Also, Black Americans need to be honest about what’s keeping them at the bottom. When I talk about Black male and female relationships whether I talk about a reason why some of the women don’t trust the men or the low marriage rates, I’m not attacking anyone. I’m pointing out what needs to change in order for basic progress to take place, but some here start hollering.

    Like


  375. @ Adeen … in our past we were ruler of great empires … but I guess it’s better that we are only reminded of one past. Yeah … let White America and Black America only remember a select part of history and let’s ignore the great stuff that made us Pharohs, Kings and Queens.

    White America … they don’t know where they came from either. They have no culture, unless they happen to have recently immigrated from Ireland, Russia or England. Most White Americans just know that they’re from Europe. Kind of like Black Americans, they know they’re from Africa, mother of all, home of the first civilization. Native Americans had their histories, languages and cultures totally eliminated, up and down these Continents.

    At least White American can go to Europe and learn their history.
    Black Americans can go to Africa and learn their history.
    Native Americans can’t go anywhere and they’ve lost everything. No one recorded their history.

    So please let’s stop thinking things are getting worse, let’s stop thinking there is no solution and thus no future and most importantly stop influencing people to give up on this fight by negating that things are far better now, than they were 100 years ago, even better than 60 years ago … we still have a ways to go, but to act like we are being hung in droves, denied our rights in droves … we deny our own rights and we’ve elminated our own options to a better future, by giving up or becoming bitter.

    How defeative of an attitude to take.

    Like


  376. @ SugarKiss

    Thanks for your comments.

    If I were to summarise the most important principle I wished to convey in that comment it would be this:

    “…The simplest step any of us can take towards implementing what we consider to be a solution is to be our own leader for that solution. It doesn’t matter how big or small that solution is. If we decide to hold ourselves accountable for the implementation of that solution then we know it will get done!…”

    Its all very well to talk about problems and solutions. But if we are not individually prepared to take responsibility for how we personally conduct ourselves, expecting someone else to take responsibility instead, then we will never experience it.

    This is what lies behind the need to have a post entitled: Is Obama a Rented Negro?

    Its the realisation that even an elected Black President cannot solve the problems we experience directly for us.

    I notice also SugarKiss you made some excellent points in your previous comment before mine about individual personal steps we can all take towards realising our own solution creating power within.

    Like


  377. Since I’m probably going to be kicked off this forum, I may as well add that I know that there are certain ways that Blacks are mistreated by Whites that Blacks can’t do much about at this point, but there are other things that they could change to a great extent. It has to do with expectations. I know some of this will sound cruel to some on this forum, but you can’t make an omelet without breaking some eggs.

    1. Black children should be expected to behave as well as any other children in this society and if Black Americans are honest, they will admit that a lot of the behavior of Black American children in schools and beyond is piss poor. They shouldn’t get a pass because they are poor and Black. My Dad said that’s a recent thing. He grew up poor and Black too.

    2. Black children should be expected to learn as much as other children in this society. It doesn’t mean that they would all become A-students, but their school performance, in aggregate, would dramatically improve. Why is it that other children can sit in the same classrooms and learn? But most Black Americans blame their children’s poor grades all on the school system, and other Black adults hi-five them.

    To better be able to implement #1 & 2

    3. Black women should never offer their wombs to Black men if the men are not willing or able to put a ring on it. No excuses. Except in rare circumstances, pregnant, unmarried Black women should receive no sympathy or government support. Black men and women should band together to ostracize Black men who irresponsibly impregnate Black women and make them pay. It wouldn’t eliminate out of wedlock Black children, but the rate would quickly go way down if the women and the men knew there was no escape. This works in some places I’ve lived.

    4. It should not be viewed as a “rite of passage” for a Black American male to go to prison or get involved with the correctional system. I know that some Black men are framed or wrongly accused and incarcerated, but if young Black males were expected by the whole community to avoid all situations that might lead in that direction, the incarceration rate would go down.

    5. Black Americans should pay for Saturday classes to teach their children their history or maybe do it in church on Sundays or take up a collection there to get it done, but make it taboo for any Black American to then try to use their history as an excuse to avoid accountability in the present.

    Like


  378. I am one who agrees that history is an important part of the equation. Without history you look at Black people here and around the world and have no understanding of why they are where they are. History lends the perspective and context of what happened to Black people. Overcoming much of what happened to us has been one of our greatest accomplishments.

    HOWEVER, history is also an abyss that you can throw yourself into and never come out of. You can spend so much time investigating the hurts of the past that you never focus on the needs of the present and future. History only serves those who are willing to ACT on it’s lessons, not those who are only content to endlessly study them.

    It’s like a marital infidelity. I’ve seen people get through them, stay married, and move on. I’ve seen people divorce, put it behind them, and move on. Ive also seen people who couldn’t move on—people who had to wallow through every painful detail, again and again and again. Was he a better lover than me? What did she have that I didn’t have? Where exactly did you first do it? Did you ever talk about me… where you both laughing at me all along?

    There’s a point when more and more delving into a painful past only serves to further screw you up and make you useless for anything else but self-pity and remorse. Yes, history is important, but only to a point. Once you understand it’s impact, it’s time to move on to the more positive realm of changing the present and planning for the future.

    Like


  379. @Jorbia

    My last comment particularly more than anyone applies to you Jorbia.

    For how you can think you can make statements like this:…

    “…I’ll be honest and say that if I had the perfect solution for Blacks right now, I wouldn’t want to share it with some in this forum because of what they’ve hurled at me, not my arguments.

    So, there are Black people who could help needier Black people, but they won’t because of how they’ve been mistreated by needier Blacks. We all have to be held accountable, not just middle class Blacks or those with money. Poor Black people have to be held just as accountable and somebody needs to grow a backbone and tell them that, without flinching. Every Black adult should be expected to practice good manners or be courteous with each other, whether they have money or not…”

    ….And dissociate your self from implementing them YOURSELF shows your continued willingness to be part of the problem you identify rather the very solution you propose for others to implement!

    This is what those of us who have taken the time to study your past responses have been able to discern and find deeply troubling. This is NOT simply a different viewpoint or opinion from another Black perspective. We can all recognise and see that when it is.

    I think you summed it up best when you said it in your own words:

    Jorbia
    “…You may be speaking about your own relationships and experience and I can’t deny your reality. What I object to are your conclusions in that you seem to be interweaving general facts with your own experiences and pain to prescribe medicine for others…”

    These are your own WORDS!

    This Jorbia is your OWN inner self speaking directly to YOU. It is what you are refusing to acknowledge and listen to or take responsibility for. Instead you believe and take it on board as a direct personal attack…ITS NOT!

    You like the rest of us have your own solutions within you but you simply prefer or choose not to listen to them and instead project them onto others. Why else would you be here?

    Of course you will probably just ignore all of this as usual and see it as another personal attack on yourself by me.

    Incidentally…If I had that Perfect solution for Black people right now. Don’t you think I would share it with YOU and EVERYONE else here?

    Like


  380. Abagond, I have a comment in moderation.

    @Kwamla–

    , I know by now that no matter how much we discuss my positions, you’re going to draw your own conclusions and you’re going to believe your conclusions, no matter how skewed they are. What I don’t get is why you continue to want to engage me. That causes unnecessary friction.

    So, I’ve chosen not to continue to belabor the same points with you.

    Like


  381. @ Bulanik and Jorbia,

    Am I allowed to say anything? I feel no matter what I say, you’ve already made your minds up.

    It’s ok, I shall be quiet.

    Like


  382. @Wilson

    Are you kidding? You’re adopting a “poor me” appeal!? Jorbia and Bulanik’s responses to you were reasonable, clear and very patient.

    If you’re not going to speak now, that’s on you; no one abused you. All that happened is that you’re comment to find a pathology with Jorbia was rightly countered.

    Like


  383. @ Legion,

    I am not doing a poor me. I read Jorbia’s and Bulanik’s response, I thought about it and there is nothing I can say in response. Jorbia question my “Psycho-analysis” as it were and there is nothing I can to disprove what she said short off actually doing actual research about her life to find points that prove what I was saying.

    BUT, you know what, I can also use this very same argument against what Jorbia is saying…

    Jorbia makes a lot of generalizations about black people, this I can prove,

    One of the first comments she makes,

    “Look at the record. Black Americans don’t support the Black businesses that are in their neighborhood. That’s why there are hardly any. They don’t usually attend meetings or get involved in the schools where their own little children attend. They say the schools are racist but they don’t create their own schools. ”

    ——————————————————————————————–

    Jorbia, please demonstrate how black americans don’t support black businesses?? You made a statement without qualifying it. We can start by naming some black businesses… Do you know any? If music is a business, then I know alot of successful black musicians who black americans happily keep in business as it were!!!

    Why do you say they don’t attend meetings or gt involved in schools?? Do we have proof of this??

    Plus, do blacks have the power to create schools??? I thought this was in the jurisdiction of government??

    I can do the above for pretty much all the statements Jorbia has made. She makes BIG statements and she doesn’t show how what she is saying is correct! When someone disagrees all of a sudden it’s because that other person has a problem.

    So that is why I question why she makes this statements. I questioned it because I know this statements can’t be true because there is no way she has done the research to find this out and if she did, she’d happily show it to us to make us believe what she said is the truth and nothing but the truth.

    So excuse my psycho-babble, but the only thing left is the reason she is saying all this stuff is psychological.

    Like


  384. Jorbia makes a lot of generalizations about black people, this I can prove,”

    Yes, but she doesn’t say ALL Black people does she?

    Like


  385. She says “Blacks”…. That is as good as saying, “All black people”

    If I say, “Humans pollute the Planet” would you think I am talking about a specific segment of humanity or that I am referring to humanity in general???

    I could have easily said “Some humans pollute the environment”..

    She can easily say,

    “Some blacks don’t… etc etc”

    We speak and our words betray us…

    In pretty much all her posts, she has mentioned “blacks” in sweeping statements and I have to say in a negative way you’d think we have no positive attributes at all..

    Show me one statement in which Jorbia has made any positive statement about black people??

    If all statements are negative and clearly blackness is not a wholly negative thing then when all what someone can do is refer to it in a negative light, then they are not giving an unbiased view. Clearly they have some underlying agenda or some psychological issues going on underneath the surface.

    I am happy to talk facts. We talk facts, then we can reach some solid conclusions.

    Like


  386. @Stelettotreehugger

    Tthis comment wasn’t even directed at you! It was directed at King! I wasn’t talking to you at all when I posted the post.

    I was just addressing the problems in the Black community because I care. If I didn’t care, I wouldn’t be commenting. You can’t deny the problems our community is facing right now. I guess you think it is better for me to be ignorant and talk about boys, and music with my peers like normal girls my age do. Well I care about our community.

    ”How defeative of an attitude to take”
    Honestly I find your criticism harsh because I don’t want Blacks to give up the fight against White supremacy.
    America is experiencing moral, social, economic and political decay right now. Life in America for people of all colors is not in the best shape these days including Blacks. Blacks have always had it harder than others in this country. That was what I meant to say.

    Like


  387. @ Wilson

    She says “Blacks”…. That is as good as saying, “All black people”

    Would this also be true if we changed the colors from Blacks to Whites?

    Like


  388. @Wilson

    Ouch! You are waaay missing the point. Your attempt to find a pathology with her was just, is just WRONG!

    Wilson, generalizations are a normal part of discourse. If I generalize the democrats and republicans as servants of corporate/rich interests, is my generalization invalid if they raise the minimum wage? Answer: No.

    Generalizations are overall pictures, overall characterizations, don’t be absurd and pretend they aren’t normal part of discourse. When Abagond says, “white America does X,” we understand he’s giving a general characterization of the way he sees things, sometimes we agree with that characterization, sometimes not. I can not believe, I need to defend the right to have a basic discourse. I won’t discuss this absurd topic with you any further!
    ——————–

    P.S.

    In the old Soviet Union if a dissident spoke against Soviet party line, they’d throw the malcontent into a psychiatric prison (or some other tender mercy) for a few weeks to “cure” him/her.

    Like


  389. @ Legion,

    I am not arguing that my attempt to pyscho analyse Jorbia’s intentions are wrong. In fact, what I said about her motivations is most likely wrong seeing I don’t actually know who she is as a person.

    However, speaking about the statements that she makes, I can prove my points.

    Your generalization about democrats and republicans being servants of rich interests is indeed a generalization BUT it is true!

    Research that I can cite has been done that models the behavior of both parties to prove that they are indeed servants to the rich!!! This is a fact and in fact research has shown that if you are not a servant to the rich, you stand no chance in gaining any firm foothold in any of these 2 parties.

    However, the generalizations that Jorbia makes are wholly incorrect. Please demonstrate how what she is saying is indeed correct?? Show it to us and I shall happily go back on all that I have said!!

    Again, when abagond talks about whites, he does make CLEAR distinctions! This has been noted by many white people here.. Abagond talks about whiteness as a culture, not just as the people, he has clearly demonstrated that whiteness is not just something that afflicts white people and NOT all white people are afflicted by this. And no whiteness is not the state of being white, it is the psychological disease that has lead some to enslaving other cultures and creating the notions of race as a tool of conquest etc etc..

    Legion, I hope you can see what I am aiming at BECAUSE Jorbia makes no distinctions at all… Please demonstrate where she makes any distinctions!!!

    Like


  390. Look anyways, does any of these matter??

    No it doesn’t! So I concede!! We can all choose to see whatever we want to see…

    I will take some time to think about what you have said but right now, I think you don’t understand what I am saying because the examples you gave above were so not the right examples to give as they don’t apply to the situation at hand. But then, we could be seeing 2 different things and pretty much be having 2 different conversations right now.

    As you say,

    “I won’t discuss this absurd topic with you any further!”

    Like


  391. Excuse my rather poor attempt to psycho analyse the apparent lack of communication between us legion,

    you state,

    “In the old Soviet Union if a dissident spoke against Soviet party line, they’d throw the malcontent into a psychiatric prison (or some other tender mercy) for a few weeks to “cure” him/her.”

    This leads me to believe you are not defending Jorbia but rather an idea. The idea that somehow I am acting like the Soviet Union and quashing dissent and this idea has lead to this apparent miscommunication taking place.

    Yes, pathetic, I know! but what other reason can there be since this whole situation has declined to an incomprehensible state?

    To clarify,

    Jorbia can disagree as much as she wants but I think it’s not to much to ask for a bit of facts for her to prove her points. Otherwise how are we to know if it’s the truth or not?

    Like


  392. @Adeen @ Wilson @ Jorbia

    @ Adeen

    What I said, was based on your opinion that you shared … no progress has been made. You make it seem like we were better off 150 years ago. Life will always pose a challenge. There will always be difficulties. “The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and conveniences, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.” (Dr. King) … We are at a moment of comfort and convenience and we act like it’s over for us. It’s NOT about how we fall, but how we get up.

    “Blacks have always had it harder than others in this country.” – African Americans have had vocal representation in this country for over 100 years, where as Native Americans haven’t. You need to do research into the status of the Native American community. Also, “in general” African Americans are “better off” than the Puerto Rican community, who have been held against their will for over 100 years.

    I’m NOT saying African Americans haven’t had a difficult time, but if African Americans can’t even consider that there are other groups doing as poorly or more so in other categories, then how can our community, expect other groups to listen to our needs, when we don’t even want to hear or discuss their problems as part of our problems?

    @ Wilson … I live in an African American neighborhood. Most of the businesses are not owned by Blacks. Most of the businesses are for “hair” and they’re not owned by the #1 group that purchases hair products.

    Chris Rock did a documentary about the “Black Hair Industry” it was enlightening and very depressing.

    For every one dollar that is spent in a Black community, it only comes back once, where as in the Jewish community that same one dollar circulates about 5 times before leaving the Jewish community. Which means what? Not enough African Americans supporting their local businesses.

    As for the PTA … sadly I see more “White” mothers attending PTA meetings, than I see “Black” mothers. Their excuse “I ain’t got time to listen to White mothers” … huh??? Those mothers are working alongside organizations that help provide contributions for extra educational and fun stuff … that all OUR children can enjoy. I’m not saying that “Black” families do not care, but it seems that when given the opportunity to work with another community of color or lack of color … they’re not interested, because they only want to deal with “Blacks” … but then just by watching this board … it plainly shows we don’t all agree.

    In my historically Black neighborhood … every elected official except for 2 are all African American … but the neighborhood is struggling financially … because 500 local “Black” churches don’t pay tax and they only help those that attend their congregation, so all other Black folks in the community aren’t being helped by historically Black churches. All new businesses are given tax deferments, which forces Black home owners to pay more in real estate tax … why? It feels as if the Black Church doesn’t care about the local community and the financial pressure it places on Black families, yet they’re suppose to be in support of Black families.

    As for Jorbia … she may have been making generalizations as WE ALL have … but I think her point is … If we aren’t even willing to address the ugly truth, how will we get to a solution?” … there are indeed way to many of us with poor attitudes, lack of desire, lack of ambition and no desire to proceed on a positive path. It’s way to easy to point blame, but we need to start looking in the mirror and facing the facts of our own behavior.

    We must address our own inner demons!!

    Hating every White Person, Black person, Bi-Racial, Latino or Caribbean or Native American … is NOT the answer.

    We must stand together for all, not just a smaller select group. United we are stronger. The Native American community must feel our support and must feel that we recognize not just what happened to us within the last couple hundred of years, but what started to take place once Europe landed in 1492.

    For now Native Americans will keep silent and they will continue to suffer alone, the way we suffer alone … meanwhile we are all kindred spirits who have had to suffer an in just world since 1492. FYI slavery of Africans didn’t start in 1492 but the Genocide of the Americas began in 1492.

    Like


  393. Martari:

    THE LACK OF MORAL EFFECTIVENESS in a compromised and increasingly corrupt Black Church…

    Stiletto:

    African American … but the neighborhood is struggling financially … because 500 local “Black” churches don’t pay tax and they only help those that attend their congregation, so all other Black folks in the community aren’t being helped by historically Black churches. All new businesses are given tax deferments, which forces Black home owners to pay more in real estate tax … why? It feels as if the Black Church doesn’t care about the local community and the financial pressure it places on Black families, yet they’re suppose to be in support of Black families.”

    Like


  394. @ Stilletotreehugger,

    Please let me know if I am just being stubborn since a lot of people are saying the same thing. In fact I think I am being stubborn and should accept I am incorrect but my point is,

    The examples you brought up, you are only analyzing the situation from the top level and not digging deeper e.g.

    —————————————————————————————-
    “I live in an African American neighborhood. Most of the businesses are not owned by Blacks. Most of the businesses are for “hair” and they’re not owned by the #1 group that purchases hair products.

    Chris Rock did a documentary about the “Black Hair Industry” it was enlightening and very depressing.

    For every one dollar that is spent in a Black community, it only comes back once, where as in the Jewish community that same one dollar circulates about 5 times before leaving the Jewish community. Which means what? Not enough African Americans supporting their local businesses.”
    ———————————————————————————————

    What does it mean when that dollar only comes back once and not 5 times? Is it that blacks are not supporting local businesses or is it that that dollar leaves the community?

    You say the local businesses are not owned by black people, so surely when I go spend money there, that money leaves and goes away to be spent elsewhere??

    Also, how much financial support can black businesses get from the Finance Industry? Can they compete with a walmart that comes in and charges everything half-price?

    I am just saying. A guy walking into a shop has zero idea who owns it most of the time. They just walk in and if they see something they like, they buy. Simple as!

    It’s not that black people don’t support black businesses, it’s that white people have been playing this game longer and lets not forget, it is THERE game! It is a system that THEY created. They are better at it and they know how to control what happens within it, they have monolithic institutions that watch over the WHOLE thing.

    But anyways, I have read your comments and I see what point Jorbia was trying to make.

    “We need to start looking in the mirror”.

    Thanks for your comment.

    PS.

    I personally have a feeling that we haven’t heard the last of the Natives.. I also have a feeling that it’ll be open season on blacks at some point in the future at least for awhile. I know some people have mentioned this and I can’t not shake the feeling off.

    Like


  395. @Wilson–

    She can easily say,

    “Some blacks don’t… etc etc”

    You’re desperately grasping at straws, but okay, my hands are up in the air. You caught me. I will be sure to use qualifiers like–some, a lot, few, several, a percent, a proportion, many, not many, not nearly enough— from now on. Now, your job is to make sure that you and everyone else do it too and every single time, or I’m going to believe that you’re making this personal at me.

    I have a Black real estate agent and my 2 doctors are Black, so some Blacks do buy from Black business people.

    Some here understood what I was saying, but just for you, I’ll rephrase my statement to to say:that: “Not nearly enough Black Americans support Black businesses.”

    This is obvious because if a larger proportion of the 43.9 million Black Americans supported Black businesses, there would be lots more Black businesses in and outside the Black communities around the country, and some of those businesses would employ other Blacks. Or maybe you think that Black Americans are not entrepreneurial?

    Another thing is that private groups do start private schools and those schools do receive some government subsidies.This is not rare. I’m really surprised you didn’t know that.

    Blacks could start private schools.

    My aunt belongs to a group of Black educators in and around a large metropolitan area and she also belongs to the NEA. Her local Black group talk about how difficult it is to get Black American parents to attend important meetings at the school or participate in school functions.Obviously some Black parents do participate, but not nearly in proportion to the number of Black students who attend the schools.

    The way some Blacks are responding to me here shows exactly why so many Black problems have escalated. Very few Blacks will dare to be candid about these issues because other Blacks will often attack them.

    Like


  396. @Stilettotreehugger
    ”I’m NOT saying African Americans haven’t had a difficult time, but if African Americans can’t even consider that there are other groups doing as poorly or more so in other categories, then how can our community, expect other groups to listen to our needs, when we don’t even want to hear or discuss their problems as part of our problems?”

    Now I see where you are coming from and I agree. No, I don’t think we were better off 150 years ago. You are right.

    We need to get rid of this White supremacist system that keeps minorities down and Whites and light skin people on top so that everyone of all races could have the opportunity to make it in life.
    We should and need to support Black businesses and fix our community.
    Most of all, Americans of all colors need to stick together and fix their communities and make it better for the people living there.

    @Wilson
    Good points but I think Stilettotreehugger is more accurate

    Like


  397. @Jorbia: I respect your opinions and viewpoints. I am not going to be the one to come at you negatively. I can even respect that you are not a conventional thinker, that’s very brave and it shows independence. I respect that. Who you choose for to mate with in life that’s wonderful. Love who loves you. I respect that as well. You sound like a sister who’s got it together. I can’t be a hater on that. If anything it inspires me to fix the things that need fixing in my life. Live well prosper and be blessed.

    Like


  398. “The way some Blacks are responding to me here shows exactly why so many Black problems have escalated. Very few Blacks will dare to be candid about these issues because other Blacks will often attack them.”

    ********

    This is absolutely NOT TRUE. (I’m saying this rather nicely!!!) What you’re getting and seeing from some of the commenters here is merely a reflection of your own condescension, tone and style. No one here attacked you, to my recollection strictly because of your ideas.

    I could go back and collect many quotes where you’ve said insulting, imaginative, negative assumptions, untrue things against individuals HERE as well as blacks in general as if they are FACTS: like for example, if the black men here came into a few dollars we’d be chasing after blondes and light skinned women; and this, seventy percent of black women are unmarried and how that’s tied to the black man’s unwillingness/refusal to marry black women. <– not true either.

    When I have called you out on JUST *SOME* of your stuff, you deflect and AVOID and misdirect the things I call you out on, you deny or ignore and retreat into this poor me, let the record show … I'm the victim of this board of commenters who don't appreciate the truth that ONLY I'm imparting here — as if you are the only individual who can fully see or mentioned what we're up against.

    There's nothing wrong with your ideas, but there's PLENTY wrong with the way you talk (PROJECT) to the people here, and when it's shown to you, you treat it as a non issue.

    Good luck with THAT!
    If you don't get a handle on this style and condescension – I *suspect* it will cause you trouble and grief in the future.

    I wish you well.

    Like


  399. Also a word about “supporting Black Businesses.” I don’t “support” Black businesses, I patronize them. But I also will not blindly spend my money in an establishment (of any color) that is not striving for excellence. I’m not saying that they have to have all the most expensive and latest equipment but it has to be clean, honest, attentive, friendly, competent, respectful and safe. I also patronize businesses that may not be owned by Blacks but who hire kids from the community, support the community, and respect the community. I will not spend my money in a place that only takes from the community and gives as little back as possible (no matter what the color of the owners.)

    But I also think that education, above all things, will be the greater equalizer. It’s not a 100% guarantee, but we can no longer afford to be at or near the bottom when it comes to our kids and education. If we want more businesses, then we need more kids getting A’s and B’s in school and not dropping out because they’re pregnant. And some of the best and most enduring businesses are started by people who go to college, work in the corporate world, government sector, or military for a while, and then open their own business. People at that level often have both the background and the contacts to make a proper go of it.

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  400. @Mary Burrell–

    You sound like a sister who’s got it together. I can’t be a hater on that. If anything it inspires me to fix the things that need fixing in my life. Live well prosper and be blessed.

    Ahhhh, you’re a sweetie pie. ;-) I don’t have it together yet. I’m a work in progress, but thank you!

    @Wilson–

    I would love to be proven wrong about the low patronage of Black businesses by Black Americans. Maybe Abagond can do a post on that. Hint-hint. Groups tend to get a certain amount of guaranteed business support from their own group. Look at Hispanic and Asian businesses, especially when they have a business near a good number of other Hispanics and Asians.. It doesn’t matter how much start-up money the government gives a Black businessperson. The business needs a steady customer base to stay afloat.

    Like


  401. Matari, you mentioned the music problem these days. What do you think can be done about it?

    Like


  402. @Matari–

    If you don’t get a handle on this style and condescension – I *suspect* it will cause you trouble and grief in the future.

    I wish you well.

    Thanks for your concern. I’ve accepted that you don’t like my communication style. I’m not happy about that, but I can’t change my personality for you, even if I tried.

    I already know that everyone is not going to like or understand me and I don’t like or understand everyone else either. All I’m saying is IMO we should be courteous towards each other because that will prove to be more useful than all of agreeing with each other about everything.

    I wish you well, too.

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  403. @Jorbia

    “You sound like you believe anything you hear or read.”
    I guess you assume I’m stupid or naive. You assumed wrong. I guess this was your way of insulting me and calling me a fool. I could stoop to your level and call you a few choice names. After reading a few of your comments,believe me I have a few names in mind.lol I can see you’re making a lot of “friends ” on this thread.lol To be honest you may or may not be a black woman. At this point I could care less. Judging from your comments I can tell you’re an arrogant,uppity, self righteous person. And I think others on this thread would probably agree with me. You think you’re so above everyone else. You seriously need to get off your high horse. When nothing could be further from the truth.
    You’re really not worth the time and energy. I don’t know why these other posters waste their time with “black” people like you. I hope you and your “white knight” live happily ever after. Stay as far away as you can from those lazy,shiftless and hopeless black creatures. Those of us in the struggle for justice and liberation don’t need your help.We’ll figure out our problems.The answer is not to “slit our wrists” as you say. We should all just get a white mate and escape the blackness,right?
    You’re hilarious!lol Are you a stand up comedian?lol

    Like


  404. @Jorbia: Everyone is a work in progress.

    Like


  405. Carry on everyone! I find this discussion quite entertaining! As for Obama, where can I rent a fellow like that for the weekend. You Yanks have quite a few fine looking fellows over there! Any of you interested in a woman led relationship? I am Canadian so I feel it would be rude for me to share any opinion of Obama(dont’ really have one either way, but he is cute). That does not preclude me from reading the myriad opinions of you Yanks though. Carry on!

    Matari, you mentioned the music problem these days. What do you think can be done about it?

    Teach them musical theories at the elementary school level. This would include reading notes, composing etc. I am not just speaking of classical but Jazz, World music as well. I am not joking. When they are educated as to the ‘science’ of music, they will be able to discern the good from the bad unless the bad is so bad that it is almost good.

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  406. @Matari
    “This is absolutely NOT TRUE. (I’m saying this rather nicely!!!) What you’re getting and seeing from some of the commenters here is merely a reflection of your own condescension, tone and style. No one here attacked you, to my recollection strictly because of your ideas.”
    Bingo!You nailed it! Jorbia is full of horse manure! She/he needs to be called out!

    Like


  407. @KushitePrince–

    Jorbia is full of horse manure! She/he needs to be called out!

    Typical. You may excel at name-calling. The question is whether you excel at anything that could help to alleviate some of the Issues in the Black American community. Any ideas?

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  408. “… you mentioned the music problem these days. What do you think can be done about it?”

    ************

    King,

    If I had a Magic Wand, I’d saturate the airwaves with oldies from the seemingly infinite doo-wop, soul, R & B, pop music, mostly from the 50s – 80s … music that has an uplifting powerful and positive message that fosters HAPPINESS, pride, hope and ROMANCE into hearts and minds — that runs counter to much of the nonsense (negative horrific lyrics) that is selling and prevalent today.

    That was some very powerful music – back in the day.

    Too bad I don’t wield a magic wand. : ((

    Honorable mention to the Delphonics, Teddy Pendergrass, The Floaters, New Birth, The Ojays, The Spinners, Sly Stone, Arrested Development, Martha Reeves, Marvin Gaye, The Shirelles, Archie Bell and the Drells, Little Anthony, Simon and Garfunkle, The Four Tops, Hall and Oates, KC and the Sunshine Band, Sister Sledge, Drifters, Harold Melvin, Rascals, James Brown, Aretha, Marvelettes, Carlos Santana, Mandrill, Supremes, Steely Dan, Donna Summer, Sade, Temptations, Boston, Stevie Wonder, WAR, Curtis Mayfield, Righteous Brothers, SWV, Quincy Jones, Donald Byrd, Chaka Khan, George Benson and countless others …. These were artists that delivered music that didn’t make you angry, but put you in a good mood.

    Realistically speaking… we could use more music executives in the order of Berry Gordy and producers like Gamble & Huff. If I could, I’d ban all the crap that’s being pushed today.

    In case anyone is wondering, my grandparents … and Abagond – lol – turned me on to all of this OLD music.

    As you can now see King, I’m not the one with the answer for the current music crisis as I’m too invested with the music from my grand and great-grands era. : )))

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  409. “… they will be able to discern the good from the bad unless the bad is so bad that it is almost good.”

    ********

    LOLOL

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  410. @Matari & King All of that great music. I love all of that stuff. And new stuff in between. Youngsters need to be taught early. take them to the symphony listen to classical music, jazz, latin jazz, blues everything. They need to be taught early. In fact they need an exposure to art and music appreciation. Children need to be exposed to language and words and books.

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  411. “Youngsters need to be taught early. take them to the symphony listen to classical music, jazz, latin jazz, blues everything. They need to be taught early. In fact they need an exposure to art and music appreciation. Children need to be exposed to language and words and books.”

    ********

    YES Ms. Mary

    Children need to be exposed to every good thing. Especially including POSITIVE – loving – successful male/female (parental) relationships! If they’re not afforded these behavioral models how can they be expected to break this downward spiral we now find ourselves in?

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  412. @Jorbia You’re very funny.lol Youre right out of a comic book.Remember you swing first. You’re nothing but an instigator looking to start trouble. Don’t pretend you care about the plight of black people. I know what I do in my community and how I educate my people. Don’t worry about me. First you insult me then you want to play nice like its all forgotten. You’re really something else.*rolls eyes*

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  413. @ Matari

    Well, I’ve mentioned Motown as well, as a great example of when Black music was being controlled by Black management. It’s funny but originally, Motown thought they were making music for Black America, and it ended up that they were making it for the world. It was so good that it outlasted the company, the era, and even most of the artists! To this day, Motown has amazing crossover popularity and even has generational crossover (as in your case).

    But do you notice that none of this music is about shooting people? None of it is bragging about how much money you have. It’s not mysogenistic, or openly lewd. The pictures and videos that we have of that era are of men and women dressed up in suits and gowns. None of them were trying to make being poor look cool even though Blacks were poorer back in tha era than they are now. None of them openly promoted drug use or alcohol abuse. So again I ask, what happened? Have we gone backwards since the 1960s?

    But again even if you reach way, way back to music that seems almost primitive by today’s satandards—back to very foundations of Black music, it still seems to be “better” to most people’s ears. And I’m talking about people who had NO education at all, and could’nt read music; never had a vocal lesson. Do you know the kind of music I’m talking about?

    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_mmZFox4Rkg

    What happened?

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  414. @Jorbia
    I am speaking from a complete non partial position because I honestly don’t care if your future husband will be black, white, brown, yellow, or purple (Well maybe purple would be kind of weird although I did see some guy who turned blue from eating some weird diet on Ripley’s Believe it or not, but that’s besides the point) I honestly don’t care his color and I hope you have a fun wedding and a happy life together.

    My point will be on what other commenters have said. I think most people have said “Good for you” as long as it is not for the wrong reasons. Which happens sometimes with interracial love. Most of the time I’ll agree when people actually take the step to marry that is not the case. Like you said if he’s gonna “put a ring on it” there has to be true love there. Most interracial relationships are out of wedlock and that is the kind I believe that can be seen as problem relationships. But then again that is the problem in society anyway even when it’s two white people or two black people. Everyone seems to have kids before they marry and too many “baby daddys” and then when people do get married they throw in the towel too easy and get divorced. You can’t always look at it along color lines. It’s the culture we all live in now.

    My wife and I had kids before we actually tied the knot but it wasn’t like we didn’t want to there were financial problems at the time and we were exclusive to each other and wanted to get married before the kids. I think in the eyes of god we were married. Then we did the right thing and put it in front of god and our family and “on paper” and made it official. We are still together today and hopefully forever.

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  415. Prince,

    While I appreciate your second witness re my assertion, let us try to give Jorbia the benefit of the doubt by believing that it’s possible for someone to re-think their style/strategy if said style is found to be offensive, and change – if the change is a good thing, and desired.

    I’m not ready to throw the towel “in” on her just yet. She has the potential to do better, We all do. We need all the strength (skills, talents, gifts, mental toughness, etc) we can gather.

    What say you, sir?

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  416. @Matari–

    While I appreciate your second witness re my assertion, let us try to give Jorbia the benefit of the doubt by believing that it’s possible for someone to re-think their style/strategy if said style is found to be offensive, and change – if the change is a good thing, and desired.

    I appreciate this. i do, but I’m not going to try to change my personality to be what you or anyone else wants me to be. I am who I am. I’m not trying get votes.

    Since I’ve been in this country, I’ve seen young Black women try to change to fit in or get others to like them. They don’t succeed. The worst part is that they end up losing a part of themselves and not respecting themselves. I learned from them. I’m not ever going to do that. Besides, my Dad told me to just be who I am and those people who like me will like me and those who don’t will go somewhere else.

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  417. @Matari Yeah I hear you. I just didn’t appreciate the slick insult. But it’s only the internet so I’m not going to lose any sleep over it. I’ll be the bigger person and let it go…..this time. I’m a fair minded man so I try not to hold grudges. As long as a person shows me respect —I will return them respect back. But if someone disrespects or insults my people or heritage—-they will get put in check. Be they black or white,doesn’t matter. But we’re all adults here. And we should be able to hold a discussion without insults. We won’t all agree on everything and that’s fine. Things can get heated at times. But without mutual respect things can get out if hand. But I feel what you’re saying.

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  418. “What happened?”

    ***

    Another generation happened. And as generations go, the one that follows seems to always move AWAY from the one preceding it.

    “To this day, Motown has amazing crossover popularity and even has generational crossover (as in your case).”

    ***

    LOLOL

    Actually, I was cajoling … an old running joke I had going with Bulanik – though I’m not certain that she got it, and I was content to leave well enough alone. But yeah, there is a generational crossover though it may or may not be the case – in my case. lol ;-)

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  419. Jorbia,

    I’m not asking you to change your personality. I am suggesting that you revisit or re-think and look at some of the things more than a few of us have tried to point out to you.

    Constructively.

    You think it has to do with your personality. I think it has more to do with your delivery and imagination.

    Unless you sincerely think it’s your personality to IMAGINE and make up things about people and then run with it like it’s true – and when someone points that out, you either ignore and/or dismiss it and get offended because you think you are being attacked for your idea(s) and that we are those black people who are put off by people with different ideas?

    (?)

    Be who you are. Don’t change who you are at your core. But are you truly a person who makes up things about people and believe that stuff to be true?

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  420. Well, in any case, it still seems to cross over the generations…

    Another generation happened. And as generations go, the one that follows seems to always move AWAY from the one preceding it.

    No, TWO generations have happened since then, and if that were really true then we’d be back to Motown by now. Something else has changed.

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  421. @Matari–

    This has become ridiculous. I actually don’t know exactly what this is all about. It seems you disagreed with something I said. You may disagree with many things that I say. So what? I disagree with many of your (plural) opinions on this site. I also don’t like the tone sometimes (as I mentioned to TrojanPam about the fatalism in her tone) or the delivery in some cases, but so what?

    Let’s just say that I’ve drawn certain conclusions about certain things. Those are my opinions. People usually believe their opinions to be true.. Why are my conclusions/opinions so important to you. I’m not the president and don’t have a pipeline to him.

    Weirder than weird is that a few of you on here seem to feel that you have the right to expect me to alter myself (personality,delivery, opinions, conclusions about whatever) to please you. That won’t happen and I wouldn’t expect anyone to do that for me, not even my fiance.

    I suggest you not read my comments if they bother you so much. Goodnight.

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  422. I dunno what’s been going on here with some of the latest comments, and I think it’s best that I remain in the dark. But it looks like the focus of this topic has been slightly veered into another direction where tones of arguments is an issue. I digress.

    Is Obama a rented negro? Yes. Then again, I knew he was from the very beginning ever since he announced his bid for the Presidency a few years ago. I never placed much faith in him because I never placed much faith in any politician regardless of who they are. They can be a person of color, a female, a homosexual, a Muslim, whatever. The only winners of any election are the top percentage of the overprivileged who can’t get enough of their slices of heaven, and don’t want anyone else to have a taste of it. To do that, as some would think, would be against capitalism and is close to communism.

    In order to get anywhere in this society you have to play it based on the rich, heterosexual, white male’s terms. In a large part, that is why Obama is in office. He is no different than his predecessors.

    Some black people thought he was the “great black hope” but he was anything but. He was not the dream MLK hoped for. He’s not Huey Newton’s incarnation. Hell, he’s not even Jesus. We honestly need to stop wishing for the best when it comes to black folks working within the system. The system is not only designed to work against us, it can turn us from a field negro to a house negro with enough persuasion. I’m not saying Obama was a field negro to begin with, but anyhow, it’s as plain as day that we can not change the system, especially from the inside. The system changes us. And many of us are lost and weak enough to allow it to happen.

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  423. Wilson,

    I’m not ignoring you. I’m busy and tired. When I’m able, I’ll respond to you. By the way, I hope you’ve been well.

    Like


  424. @King and all

    Also a word about “supporting Black Businesses.” I don’t “support” Black businesses, I patronize them. But I also will not blindly spend my money in an establishment (of any color) that is not striving for excellence.

    Indeed, bravo!

    Why should you give them a subsidy? It isn’t good for them and isn’t good for you.

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  425. Prince,

    The universe just gave me another personal teachable moment!

    Oops!! I was way wrong. I thought *perhaps* she was one of US.
    Apparently, that’s not the case. My bad!
    I think I overestimated my ability to breakthrough and communicate…

    I’m learning, or being reminded – again – that people, all parties involved, MUST WANT to communicate effectively in order to have effective communication. That’s not always going to possible.

    Therein lies a big part of THE PROBLEM – which according to K & K (Kwamla and King) – when one recognizes the problem, then one always has the solution.

    The solution in this case is sad.

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  426. @Abagond–

    Do you have a policy on alternative viewpoints on your site? I can’t find it. I obviously have an alternative viewpoint on some of your posts and my views run counter to some of the views of some of your regular commenters.

    If you consider my alternate views as a disruption or unwanted, say the word and I’ll never comment again. I don’t want to be the source of your other commenters pulling your threads off topic.

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  427. @ Matari,

    I can emphasis with your good willingness and attempts to communicate. It is definitely a learning process. One that we should all be applauded for achieving by engaging in this forum.

    One of the things I’ve learned is that communication takes places on many levels. Not all of us are aware of this believing words to be the primary form. Nothing could be further from the truth….

    “…Studies have shown that only about 10% of our communication (or what we’re trying to communicate) comes from using words themselves. 30% of the rest comes from how we say these words (our tone, pitch, inflection, etc.) and the 60% of communication comes from “non-verbal” communication – using our body language (facial expressions, posture, movement, etc), …”

    A lot of people like to think they can hide in the anonymity of the internet believing this gives them the perfect cover. What they fail to appreciate or take into account is that some people can be more “intuitively” perceptive than others. A skill (for example) many Black people honed and developed as a matter of urgency for survival during slavery.

    So I suppose it depends on how much weight you wish to place on just the tangible “words” alone!

    “…Therein lies a big part of THE PROBLEM – which according to K & K (Kwamla and King) – when one recognizes the problem, then one always has the solution. …”

    I can’t speak for King but I think this paragraph from me best describes the point I was trying to illustrate in what you mentioned above about the connection between the problem and the solution:

    “…Everyone who has contributed comments here is part of that solution. We all know collectively what the problems or “OUR” problems are. A simple reading of all the past contributions from everyone listed here will tell you this (including myself)

    But we all equally, and more importantly, know what the solutions to those problems are too. If WE are the problem then WE are also the SOLUTION TOO!

    This is a key change of focus to appreciate. We can all blame each other for not acting out solutions we suggest. But who is left to do them if no one wants to carry them them out?… We are!…”

    I think this is crucial to understanding our constant need to continually look for leaders or saviours in our own communities.

    The solution is “sad”when we convince ourselves we are unworthy or incapable of being the ones who can implement it.

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  428. “…Therein lies a big part of THE PROBLEM – which according to K & K (Kwamla and King) – when one recognizes the problem, then one always has the solution. …”

    Once you know what the problem is the solution is almost always the removal or reversal of the source of the problem. If you diagnose the problem correctly, then the diagnosis suggests the cure.

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  429. @king from a ‘zero sum’ perspective that may be accurate; however, there is such a thing as ‘lose lose’

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  430. ^That’s what I meant, but of course, I don’t mean that in this case anyone should remove or reverse Jorbia.

    The death of a good blog is when everyone on it agrees. :-)

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  431. Thomas, of course I’m speaking in generalities—in general I think this is true.

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  432. @ Jorbia

    Alternative viewpoints are always welcomed, of course. However this thread has gone off topic. It seemed productive at first so I did not want to kill it, but now I am not so sure. I might declare certain things off topic, but I am not about to kick anyone off for a mere difference of opinion.

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  433. Some here don’t only get rattled about non-uniform views, they also want uniformity of tone and delivery. Seems that that helps to tell them whether a commenter is “one of them” or not. It’s this type of weirdness that caused women to be burned up during the Salem Witch Trials.

    That’s why I asked Abagond about his policy on alternate viewpoints. I’m not a clone and I’m not going to try to fake it.

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  434. @ Jorbia … according to a quote I once read and have since agreed with … “if we all thought the same, none of us would be thinking.” The conversation needs to be had, no matter how uncomfortable or ugly. We need to confront the truths and our inner demons. If we only celebrate our beauty and but ignore the ugly, then we can’t be upset when people point out what we are intentionally ignoring.

    So please although your views may not be accepted or appreciated, it shines a light on what so many would like to pretend to exist.

    It’s like complaining about the greedy 1% and ignoring the bottom lazy and greedy other 1% … both spectrums are causing long term damage.

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  435. @ stilettotreehugger

    Sorry, but this perspective is warped!

    “…It’s like complaining about the greedy 1% and ignoring the bottom lazy and greedy other 1% … both spectrums are causing long term damage…”

    How on Earth are the “…bottom lazy and greed other 1%…” causing damage to the greedy 1%…” ???

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  436. @Stilettotreehugger–

    It’s like complaining about the greedy 1% and ignoring the bottom lazy and greedy other 1% … both spectrums are causing long term damage.

    So true! As Black Americans, in aggregate, sink, it makes me wonder why more of them aren’t getting a backbone to go against the grain to provide an opposite viewpoint instead of constantly blaming everything on white supremacy.

    Notice that I don’t say more of “us” because I do have a backbone.

    For instance, I would like to know how many Black Americans went to see Django Unchained. When I first heard about the movie, I got an uncomfortable feeling in the pit of my stomach about it, but then I read and heard some Black Americans raving about the merits of it and heard about how much the n-word was used. I couldn’t understand why any Black person would want to pay to sit in a movie theater and hear Blacks being called the n-word. I talked to my parents about the movie, and they were shocked.

    Hollywood will make more of the slave movies because enough Black Americans have given them the pass to do so and have paid them to do it. A lot of Black Americans are very myopic. They cause some of their own problems and they then start blaming white supremacy.

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  437. No they’re causing damage to those in the middle. The Greed on the top and the greed at the bottom, squeezes the middle class.

    You know, those that get up every day, go to work, continue their educational advancement, make the best decisions they can to help their family. The 1% at the bottom that I’m talking about the small percent of people in our society that come in all sorts of colors and religions … that refuse to work, refuse to make better decisions, lie to get government support, turn down extra hoursand further advancing themselves, so that they don’t lose their section 8 or medicaid. There are people who rather take government handouts, than have to actually work hard and make “better” decisions. No I’m not talking about people who have real disabilities. It’s amazing how poor people in other countries … don’t use depression as an excuse not to better themselves. In Africa, sad, depressing and devestating things happen to good people, it happens all over the world, except people get up and go to work, go to school and do what they can to improve their lot in life, not keep them stagnate and weak …. I’m talking about people who would rather sit around, than move around.

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  438. @Stilettohugger–

    that refuse to work, refuse to make better decisions, lie to get government support, turn down extra hoursand further advancing themselves, so that they don’t lose their section 8 or medicaid. There are people who rather take government handouts, than have to actually work hard and make “better” decisions.

    Yes, and I’ve heard Black Americans defend this and say that since Blacks who do this had slave ancestors, they are entitled to the handout lifestyle. But now that there’s a class of Blacks who are entrenched in this entitlement lifestyle that’s gone on for generations, some of those Blacks want the president to wave a wand. Myopia again.

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  439. I never understood how someone that lives on pittance of money from the government, think they’re getting ahead … getting over …? Who’s getting over on who? The government doesn’t want smart people and the “White” powers that be, really don’t want to compete in a world of Ambitious and competative people of color. So we roll over and pretend to die??? That’s a solution?

    I say … let’s give them a run for the money!!! I say, you can’t keep me down and cowering for a pittance … just to avoid … a better life? …

    I will be that person, to challenge their indocrination … I will be that person that says “yep and I have a brain … to match my ambition of wanting more than just the measly basics you want to give me as a hand out.” … as if a Bear would be satisfied with beef jerky!! Don’t give me beef jerky … I want the Port House Steak and I will have the money to pay for it and leave a good tip with a smile!!!

    “The powers that be” are afraid of the day we wake up and realize how trully talented, intelligent, hard working, strong, industrious, loving, passionate and adventurous, we are!!!

    People need to do what they have to do to move forward … but that doesn’t mean depending on the government the rest of their lives … that just makes you beholden and owned by the governement.

    Nope … I’m a free woman, with a free mind to think, to love, to laugh and to progress!!!

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  440. ^^Oops! Sorry to misspell your name.

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  441. Well, both the top 1% and the bottom 1% hurt the middle class, of course. But the Top 1% causes maybe 98% of the overall financial damage, and the bottom 1% does maybe 2%.

    That’s not to say that the bottom 1% doesn’t incur “costs” of other sorts in other ways, but in general, the top disproportionately does most of the harm.

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  442. Just because one does more “damage” … but the bottom 1% is causing PR problems for those of us trying to do better. Those doing well, are blanketed with the generalization of the bottom 1% … being lazy and greedy, isn’t an excuse. They’re not hurting the top 1%, they’re hurting the rest of us.

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  443. @Matari It’s okay,I feel you man.lol You gave it a shot. There’s nothing wrong with being hopeful or having positive thoughts. But some people are just stuck in their ways and too far gone. Don’t sweat it though. Just keep it moving. I’m not stressing over this person one bit. It’s best not to give too much energy to those giving off negative vibes,you feel me?

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  444. @ stiletto

    That’s what I was saying with this /That’s not to say that the bottom 1% doesn’t incur “costs” of other sorts in other ways/ above.

    But you also have to realize that the PR problems will not immediately abate itself. Even if the the bottom percent of Blacks and Whites was numerically identical, those who choose to run down Blacks would only see the Black side of the problem and excuse and dismiss the White side of it.

    Thats no excuse for laziness, dishonesty, or criminality, but it is the unfortunate reality of the PR problem.

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  445. Jorbia,

    I’ve been trying to catch up on these posts and I have to say, I’ve enjoyed reading the exchanges…new posters, new energy, but some things remain the same…

    And I’m glad you’re one of them…you believe in your convictions and are not afraid to state them…Good for you, don’t back down because you are not crazy or far off the mark with some of the things you say.

    Considering the forces against you, Black Americans have achieved so much and believe it or not, you used to be/are admired by many black people around the world.

    Jorbia, since you have lived outside the US in a black majority country, you have seen/experienced first-hand what it feels like when black people are running the entire show – this is what has tainted your perception :-) …you know what it’s like to live in a country with almost no white people.

    You also had an insight of how black/brown people behave when money and skin tone divides the “haves” from the “have nots” –take away the white “race” and you’re still left with human greed and corruption. Class and colourism is a problem that affects most black majority countries (no escaping the lingering aftertaste of white/European colonial rule)

    Since I am not black American, I typically refrain from putting in my 2 cents with this particular topic … I don’t think it’s my place to say, “what I feel is wrong or how it should be changed” in black American society, even though I am affected by the same forces that affect black Americans since I live here.

    Jorbia, you do realize you face opposition because you are not marching lock step with the group…you are not towing the line like a “good” black American and that is what is getting you in trouble…I’ve said this before, black American society silently demands loyalty from anyone who is considered “black” in America; if not, then you are seen as a “traitor” or whitewashed as someone mentioned.

    This is the same attitude that we foreign black/brown people have to deal with in the US because black Americans don’t understand that when you come from a black majority country… foreign black people tend to think in terms of nationality /culture or ethnic group—not by “race” –

    when black American tourists come to my country (Jamaica), they are seen as “American” first and every stereotype applied to Americans, are applied to you (black Americans) – such as, “you Americans all have money, so it’s OK to cheat you”.

    But we have that luxury because in our countries, we are not confronted with ‘white privilege’ on a frequent basis (except for foreign investors but that’s a different topic)

    Like


  446. “Since I am not black American, I typically refrain from putting in my 2 cents with this particular topic … I don’t think it’s my place to say, “what I feel is wrong or how it should be changed” in black American society, even though I am affected by the same forces that affect black Americans since I live here.

    This has never, to my knowledge, been declared an “African-American” website that only accept viewpoints from African-Americans. Throughout the years many people from many different places and backgrounds have participated in the discussions.

    Every other ethnic minority in the U.S. has grown and strengthened by IMMIGRATION. But Blacks in America have been hovering around 12% of the total U.S. population for decades now. Part of the problem is that, just like everybody else, we need immigrants. We need new blood, new perspectives and new ideas in order to grow and expand.

    However, when the immigrants do come from Africa, from the Caribbean, and Latin America, they are not going to all look, act, and think, like us. So we better quickly get used to listening. It’s time to realize that we we need to purge ourselves of our own ‘American Privilege’ and give ear to these new emerging voices both from the Continent and the diaspora. I guarantee that some of them will be saying things that we don’t want to hear, but it’s all part of the painful and necessary process of growing up.

    Like


  447. @King.

    Very well stated.

    Like


  448. @Linda–

    Jorbia, since you have lived outside the US in a black majority country, you have seen/experienced first-hand what it feels like when black people are running the entire show – this is what has tainted your perception …you know what it’s like to live in a country with almost no white people.

    Exactly! Looking back, I thought that other Black Americans would be like my parents and some of my relatives, but it has really been an eye-opening experience trying to relate to other Black Americans, in general. My parents have also traveled and lived outside the States for long stretches of time.

    Judging from what I’ve experienced in the last few years among Blacks here, I’m afraid to raise my children in this country. My fiance and I have talked about that and he agrees. We may live here sometimes, but I’d want to get out of here a lot.

    You also had an insight of how black/brown people behave when money and skin tone divides the “haves” from the “have nots” –take away the white “race” and you’re still left with human greed and corruption. Class and colourism is a problem that affects most black majority countries (no escaping the lingering aftertaste of white/European colonial rule)

    You said it! The human greed and corruption and other deadly sins are still there, but hardly any Black Americans I’ve met can believe that. I know that given the same set of circumstances and the same means to do it, Blacks would have done exactly what Whites did and they wouldn’t have needed any coaching. No group of us are saints. It’s not only naive but dangerous to think otherwise.

    I’ve said this before, black American society silently demands loyalty from anyone who is considered “black” in America; if not, then you are seen as a “traitor” or whitewashed as someone mentioned.

    Loyalty? But what exactly does one get in return for the loyalty? Possibly they won’t call me names, I’d guess. ;-) So, my choices here are to either become a clone or a traitor? Hmmmm, not a tough decision. Clones have no identity of their own.

    when black American tourists come to my country (Jamaica), they are seen as “American” first and every stereotype applied to Americans, are applied to you (black Americans) – such as, “you Americans all have money, so it’s OK to cheat you”.

    Don’t I know it! :-) All they have to hear is the accent and you’d better hold on to your purse!

    Like


  449. lol … that’s ok … I hug Stiletto’s and trees!! :)

    Like


  450. Oops!– before the usual suspects come out and say I’m telling on myself, notice that the word “traitor” is italicized.

    Like


  451. @ Jorbia & Linda,

    It’s not just African Americans this happens to it happens to all American groups. Island born versus American born … Islanders don’t respect Americans. South American born or North American born, they don’t respect Americans. It’s not about color … it’s about our spoiled behavior. Our whiny attitudes. The fact that we don’t know how to to tell the difference between problems and inconveniences. Have no cable, isn’t a problem, but don’t tell that to an American. Not having a smart phone isn’t a problem, it’s an inconvenience. But these days, kids are losing their minds because they can’t play a video game, so they kill their grandmother, smack up their mother???

    American kids … all need a reality check. I think all should have to visit a 3rd world country, in order to truly appreciate what we have in this country, that so many people are willing to risk their lives to live here.

    My own American kids are spoiled and I have to constantly remind them and intentionally teach them lessons of what is a “problem” versus “inconvenience” … it’s harder to say “No” when you and your kids know you have money. It’s hard to say “No” when your kids see us spending money on our nails and hair. It’s hard to “ACCEPT” No when they see their parents not doing the right thing with their money. Easier said than done. …

    Anyway … it’s about being a “spoiled” American, that’s what’s causing so many of us problems. We want more, but we are not as willing to work so hard for it anymore.

    Like


  452. Bulanik

    “I don’t agree that as generations go, the one that follows always moves away from the one preceding it. I don’t believe history bears this out. I believe following generations experiment and search for freshness and identity, but I feel people though people make journeys, they love what they love, and their desires and needs remain unchanged.”

    *******

    But many things don’t remain unchanged. Recent world history bears this out.
    Do the following generations implement greater, better, things than the previous generations? Or do they eventually sell out, compromise? Go along to get along? …wind up being seduced by the very things they were initially against?

    Mankind is seemingly on a collision course with his own destruction on so many levels. Avarice, population control (conventional wisdom) self-centeredness have overtaken and surpassed charity, freedom and love. Love meaning a SPIRIT of doing what’s right, what’s just, what’s good, what’s best for the whole. This anti-love spirit, led by America and followed by her western allies (what I refer to as whiteness) has virtually engulfed/infected/influenced the whole planet in an even BROADER sense. THIS anti-love spirit is evidenced in so many ways, including money worship AND much of the noise that passes for music (and cinema) that’s peddled around the world..

    _______

    “What I believe is that market forces influence plays a huge role.
    This is the system we have. The system is a beast that chews up and spits out.
    The violence of this system is ruthlessly cynical, and not grounded in ideals or artistry or such. What we wished for, and fought for, and created, does not remain the same, even when we think we can “monitor” it. Even though it looks familiar and has a familiar name, it gets “worked on” and bastardized to make it a commodity. By the time we’ve consumed it and found out how empty and damaging it is, it’s entered our bloodstream and feels almost too late…”

    *******

    I’m hoping that THE system is in the midst of birth pains and is soon to deliver something much different than what humans have seen or experienced before. Otherwise, we’re ALL dead.

    Like


  453. Prince,

    Yup – I’m feeling you!
    Thanks.

    Like


  454. @Stileto
    My family is from the islands, well Jamaica to be exact and I am American born and I keep on being told that I am lucky to be American born of Jamaican descent from my family members(mostly Jamaican born).

    Reading your post reminds me that I should appreciate what I have as an American born teen and not take them for granted. There are kids out there who don’t even have the privilege to go to school for free or live in a nice, house and have a roof over their heads.

    @kING
    Well said.

    As an American born of Jamaican descent, I hate it when Blacks and West Indians don’t get along. I just hate it. We are all Black in the eye of the White man!

    Like


  455. @Adeen…. You should get along with all people whether they are from the Islands or born here…. or whether they are white or black. I’m sure you know that, but I think you are at a critical point in your life and you don’t want to go down the road of hate. I’ve been there and it’s not a good place. All you can do is love people for who they are and not what they are. There is always going to be people out there , white or black, who will hate because of color.

    On the topic of the post. Obama got into office(which he shouldn’t have, he’s doing a terrible job) because he got alot of votes from “the white man”.

    Don’t believe the hype Adeen and feed into the division. I don’t know if you have ever seen the movie “Pink Floyd’s The Wall” The underlying premise of the movie and the teaching point is you can either help bring the wall down or become one of it’s bricks. Don’t do the ladder, you are too smart for that.

    Like


  456. @ Matari

    I’m hoping that THE system is in the midst of birth pains and is soon to deliver something much different than what humans have seen or experienced before.’

    Different but not better.

    @ Stiletto

    The greatest shock to Black Americans will be to finally understand to what degree the majority of African-descended people around the world totally disagree with where we have taken our culture since the Civil Rights era and who’s fault it really is.

    Like


  457. Kwamla & King

    You both make excellent points on *communication* and problem solving. I shall consider them …

    Problem solving and engaging in effective and meaningful conversation is key …

    Much thanks to you two for the assistance!

    Like


  458. @King–

    The greatest shock to Black Americans will be to finally understand to what degree the majority of African-descended people around the world totally disagree with where we have taken our culture since the Civil Rights era and who’s fault it really is.

    This is exactly why I’m trying to actually talk on here and will never be one of the sheep. I know how some African-descended people disagree with the direction Black Americans have allowed the culture to go in. I hear the discussions often.

    So many Black Americans are so sensitive until no one can say hardly anything to them, but meanwhile it’s like they’re on a runaway train, as a group. IMO, some things Black Americans kick up a storm about are silly, whereas other things that are most damaging don’t seem to bother them. It’s like watching the train wreck in excruciatingly slow motion. Many people in various other African-descended groups know what’s causing the wreck and see it happening. They’re distancing themselves.

    Like


  459. “Different but not better.
    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-wsHhruxLvpU/T_Jee0fZKfI/AAAAAAAAAgE/jU902VOqacA/s1600/pyramid+eye.jpg

    ******

    King, one could illustrate realistically that we’re already well immersed in the pyramid+eye (666) beast/system…

    I’m thinking/hoping different -and- BETTER.

    It could look like an Earth 2.0 as described here:
    http://wordpress.kwamla.com/?cat=15

    Or, it may look otherwise. Hopefully, Earth’s survivors will wake up and totally CHANGE their paradigms in regards to living peacefully with one another – always!

    Some refer to this as the age of Aquarius. Others … the literally Christ Anointing (Spirit) set up on Earth. Or, some other name or reference.

    Like


  460. The reason I say it is because I’ve been quite a beet outside of the African-American cultural bubble, and I’ve heard it from the Jamaicans, the Trinidadians, the Bermudians, the Nigerians, the Haitians, the Ethiopians, the Somalis, the Black Costa Ricans and Belizeans.

    All of these people sounded a lot closer to Jorbia in their opinions then to Black American cultural ideas about race and justice. That’s when I had to stop arguing and start listening. I’m not saying that we don’t have our points, but I’ve also seen that we need to dialogue more with the children of Africa around the world. Many of our attitudes are not universally held among Black people.

    There’s a time to be humble and listen—a time to admit we too can be wrong about some things.

    Like


  461. Matari

    The clock is running out, and the watchmen on the wall do slumber…

    Like


  462. The greatest shock to Black Americans will be to finally understand to what degree the majority of African-descended people around the world totally disagree with where we have taken our culture since the Civil Rights era and who’s fault it really is.

    And there is a whole slew of problems stemming over from being directly colonized by Europeans that our Brothers and Sisters who have not left the continent will not admit to! I have seen it first hand as i have lived in Ethiopia and Tanzania respectively. Ask some of your Black friends from home how they feel about having “servants” who are just as Black and “colonized” as they (e.g. not having a problem ordering “poorer” people around) Ask some of our Brothers and Sisters in the continent how some of our Sisters there are also into weaves, perms and materialism. Ask some of our Brothers and Sisters how spoiled and rotten their little ones are and how boys are sometimes valued way more than girls by many people who should know better.

    My point is there is no “them” or “us”. People of African descent globally are in a mess. Given what i know and have experienced we ALL have learning to do collectively.

    Like


  463. Yes, but it’s a different mess.

    The point is not they they are 100% right and Black Americans are 100% wrong. The point is that we can both be wrong about a great many things, and that we need both perspectives to reach Hegelian synthesis.

    Like


  464. “Jorbia@
    Many people in various other African-descended groups know what’s causing the wreck and see it happening. They’re distancing themselves.”

    Linda says,

    Oh, how I wish this was true – We immigrants want to keep our cultural ethics in tact when come to America but it’s hard with our American-born children – they are assimilated Americans who want to enjoy the privileges but not feel the pain.

    our West Indian young people are taking their cues from black America or rather, anything that is popular in America — they are all into hip hop, videogames, any and everything that is considered “in style” as far as popular culture goes – they enjoy watching those no-class heuxs on VH1 and BET.

    To keep my children grounded, I had to send them home (to either Jamaica or Honduras) during the summers to visit the poorest farmer relatives I had, so that they could remember “where” they were coming from…(and of course, those relatives where happy to take them because I had to send money)

    believe it or not, the kids stopped complaining about the poverty and lack of comfort (like air conditioning, hot water, and working toilets) because they started to appreciate the land and the simple life – they learned about their heritage.

    I tended to not send my kids to the middle-class family members back home because even in Jamaica, the young people are into what the “Americans” do – party at the beach (Hedonism), spend (waste) money on what is in fashion, import and show off their fast cars, etc…live like the “Jones” even though they have no clue what the Jones have to do to get the money.

    Don’t get me wrong, majority do have their heads on straight and once the flaky ones come to America, they realize life here is not a cake-walk where you can pick up money from the sidewalks.

    But most 1st generation young people now have a tendancy to fall into the bad habits that the American system entices them with: easy access to credit cards, auto loans and mortgages, getting loaded up with financial aide debt, basically owning more debt than assets.

    The system in the US is designed to make everyone consumer “wage-slaves” to the banks and corporations.

    On one hand, I applaud the hip hop industry for getting in on the action and capitalizing on corporate and white America but the trade off—dear God, has been at the expense of our young people and black America’s image.

    Like


  465. As an American born of Jamaican descent, I hate it when Blacks and West Indians don’t get along. I just hate it. We are all Black in the eye of the White man!

    Yes, but we aren’t a monolith just because “he” thinks we are a monolith.

    Like


  466. on Fri 1 Mar 2013 at 08:58:55 Caffeine & Nicotine

    “It’s this type of weirdness that caused women to be burned up during the Salem Witch Trials.”

    – – –

    All executions of women at Salem were through hangings, The one man who was executed met his demise from being pressed to death under heavy stones.

    There were no burnings connected to the witch trials at Salem, Massachusetts.

    Like


  467. on Fri 1 Mar 2013 at 09:01:38 Caffeine & Nicotine

    *Instead of a comma, there should be a period after the word “hangings”.

    Like


  468. @ Legion

    “…Yes, but we aren’t a monolith just because “he” thinks we are a monolith…

    Yes, but the monolith that links and oppressors all of us is white supremacy!

    If only we could see that is what that comment is trying to reflect to you!

    Like


  469. Jorbia

    @Stilettotreehugger–

    It’s like complaining about the greedy 1% and ignoring the bottom lazy and greedy other 1% … both spectrums are causing long term damage.

    So true! As Black Americans, in aggregate, sink, it makes me wonder why more of them aren’t getting a backbone to go against the grain to provide an opposite viewpoint instead of constantly blaming everything on white supremacy.

    I am going to illustrate with some sourced information why I think comments like the above are dangerous uniformed nonsense! I say dangerous because it creates and sustains a delusional perspective many of us (Black and white) may buy into at great cost to ourselves and others. So yes it is harmful psychologically. Even if it is a choice to indulge in harm to ourselves or others nevertheless.


    “…“We can no longer pretend that the creation of wealth for a few will inevitably benefit the many—too often the reverse is true,” Jeremy Hobbs, the head of Oxfam, said in a statement. “Concentration of resources in the hands of the top one per cent depresses economic activity and makes life harder for everyone else—particularly those at the bottom of the economic ladder.”

    “In a world where even basic resources such as land and water are increasingly scarce, we cannot afford to concentrate assets in the hands of a few and leave the many to struggle over what’s left,” he continued…”

    “…The world’s richest earned £160 billion last year—a figure that Oxfam, an international coalition of 17 organizations working in 90 countries focusing on inequality and the poor, said could end poverty around four times over.

    “It is now widely accepted that rapidly growing extreme wealth and inequality are harmful to human progress, and that something needs to be done,” said Oxfam, while citing a report from the World Economic Forum that rated income inequality as one of the global risks of 2013…”

    http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/world/worlds-richest-could-easily-end-poverty-says-oxfam-338409.html

    This is the Reality that we go on ignoring everyday. That the cause and solution to global poverty is intractable or too complex to solve…ITS NOT! its very simple when you do the maths!

    Its these attempts at explaining gross economic poverty and inequality in a “vacuum” devoid of any real sense of understanding of global politics which shows the political naivety of the two commentators, and anyone else, who might sympathise with their world view.

    Its not, and has never been, about gaining a backbone to stand up economically for yourself. Its about gaining a backbone to stand up economically and socially for yourself in the face of a globally politically and oppressive force such as white supremacy!

    These are two completely different struggles. You can opt out of the second one involving politics but you cannot opt out of the consequences of choosing to ignore those politics!

    Not saying you can’t have or express alternative views. But please don’t expect those views to remain unchallenged, particularly, in a Black public forum like this!

    Like


  470. @ Matari

    I’m glad you liked and shared the New Earth 2.0 reality!

    Like


  471. @Kwambla
    Well said. I agree with you completely.

    Like


  472. @phoebeprunelle–

    Ask some of our Brothers and Sisters in the continent how some of our Sisters there are also into weaves, perms and materialism.

    This is true but it’s a matter of intensity and degree. There can be a welcome rainfall and then there can be a hurricane. Which would you rather happen in your area? Or think of 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th degree burns. What’s your choice?

    Ask some of our Brothers and Sisters how spoiled and rotten their little ones are and how boys are sometimes valued way more than girls by many people who should know better.

    Again: Intensity and degree. Sexism as in male supremacy is usually a fact throughout the world and has been for a long time.

    My point is there is no “them” or “us”. People of African descent globally are in a mess. Given what i know and have experienced we ALL have learning to do collectively.

    This is what many Black Americans say to themselves to feel better, but given what I know and have experienced, the majority of others in someAfrican-descended groups do not want to be in the “mess” anywhere near Black Americans because of intensity and degree.

    Like


  473. @Linda–

    Oh, how I wish this was true – We immigrants want to keep our cultural ethics in tact when come to America but it’s hard with our American-born children – they are assimilated Americans who want to enjoy the privileges but not feel the pain.

    In my experience, lots of Blacks on the Continent view Blacks from certain Caribbean countries as quite similar to Blacks in the U.S. It’s not that anyone is better or worse, but people are different. Some differences are viewed as irreconcilable.

    I think that would be a rich discussion in itself to talk about the cultural ethics of different groups of Blacks, but I don’t think this board could handle that. :-)

    There is no denying that some cultural ethics, when practiced, lead to more success for the group in the one or more ways that success may be defined Therefore, people with certain ethics prefer not to engage in friction by trying to mix with others with very different ethics.

    Like


  474. @Caffeine and Nicotine–

    There were no burnings connected to the witch trials at Salem, Massachusetts.

    Just going by what I’ve read.

    Like


  475. @Kwamla–

    I didn’t use “getting a backbone” in the sense you interpreted it, but just go ahead and argue with your interpretations.

    Not saying you can’t have or express alternative views.

    Thanks for your permission.

    But please don’t expect those views to remain unchallenged, particularly, in a Black public forum like this!

    I will certainly continue to express my opinions.

    Like


  476. @Kwamla,

    Once again, spot on! Your comments remind me of the countless “statistical reports that support your claims of the big umbrella of white privilege:

    ~blacks receiving higher interest rates on homes/cars when they qualified for prime or near prime rates
    ~whites being able to GO TO PRISON and still have a higher probability of employment than a black man who has NEVER BEEN
    ~ Driving while black and many other “just because I’m black” offenses blacks have to endure daily…

    @All

    “And there is a whole slew of problems stemming over from being directly colonized by Europeans that our Brothers and Sisters who have not left the continent will not admit to! I have seen it first hand as i have lived in Ethiopia and Tanzania respectively. Ask some of your Black friends from home how they feel about having “servants” who are just as Black and “colonized” as they (e.g. not having a problem ordering “poorer” people around) Ask some of our Brothers and Sisters in the continent how some of our Sisters there are also into weaves, perms and materialism.”

    Exactly! To me, this is like culture clashing. This is the stigma’s of blacks being broadcast worldwide, the American Blacks culture in music, clothes, even vernacular and who capitalizes? Corps will pay a few eagerly complicit entertainers and then they promote utter garbage as a staple of what American blacks are like!!

    Who owns the media??? We are cool enough to emulate. That’s about it.

    We talk about individual improvements, efforts in community, building from the ground up in AMERICA so that our children aren’t so quick to run after Lil’ Wayne and his ilk as role models. Yet, we still sit hear and blanket ‘blackness’ worldwide with the American Black as the crux of the problem.

    Debt. Consumerism. Unchecked financial corruption. Crooked politics. War. “Invasion” of lands for resources under the guise of “helping stabilize the region.”– All of these things are what’s giving the world markets and whole economies the flu. Weaves, Lil Wayne and the atrocity that is BET/VH1/MTV and even Honey Boo Boo– not so much.

    “My point is there is no “them” or “us”. People of African descent globally are in a mess. Given what i know and have experienced we ALL have learning to do collectively.”

    ~ I agree with this. But I think that everyone that isn’t the absolute richest is not far behind. We should all commit to learning about each others’ cultures and real HISTORY so that we can find a common ground and start reversing the intentional slandering and degradation of us the black man/woman as the last common denominator. When we see our better selves, we will want to be better. I truly believe that.

    SK

    Like


  477. @ Kwamla and SugarKiss

    Utter poetry. Thank you for writing down what I want to say in such a succinct manner. I too agree with this and co-sign.

    Like


  478. @Sugarkiss–

    Yet, we still sit hear and blanket ‘blackness’ worldwide with the American Black as the crux of the problem.

    As you can tell, my views are very different than those of certain Blacks in the west. I’m the product of a mixture of cultures, but participating here has proven to me that I lean much more towards general African cultural values and views.

    For instance, let’s look at the current post on Ebonics. It’s not whether one way of speaking is good or bad. Standard American English is the standard language of this country. No African immigrant parent who I’ve ever met here or in Africa would want their children around others who would try to equate Ebonics with standard English.They would believe that validating the speaking of Ebonics would interfere with their child’s academic progress and they strongly value education. Obviously, a large proportion of Black Americans don’t agree.

    Likewise, there are many views, values, and practices like this that I could cite that cause some groups of Blacks to be polite with each other but prefer to remain apart from each other. Apparently, some Black Americans think that Blacks of my persuasion are “uppity” but when we are all together, there is too much friction regarding very basic issues.

    The reason why I’ve tried to participate in some of these discussions is because my parents grew up as Black Americans, so that’s my nationality too. However, when I share some of what is discussed here with them, they can’t believe that some of you could defend any of it.

    Like


  479. @Jorbia,

    This is what many Black Americans say to themselves to feel better

    I don’t know if this is a matter of trying to make an entire group (that has diversity) feel better…rather than acknowledging that people of African descent globally have a lot of building and uniting to do. The problem with the Black World is not solely the faults of Black Americans–in fact, Black Americans were the ones producing the Pan-African leaders and thinkers that blew out of the water the art of activism, and writing to bring about social change..the rest of the Black World tended to follow.

    I do agree that Black Americans have the right to offer constructive criticism to other Black Americans, but it should be done out of love, compassion and a genuine interest to uplift and not further damage the already delicate psyches of our people in this part of the Diaspora.

    Like


  480. @Jorbia

    While I understand your argument regarding the use of “Ebonics” and raising children and how it somehow equates whether you would let your children play around someone’s “Ebonic” speaking children, I will respectfully disagree.

    I too work in a VERY multinational, multicultural city of Houston, TX. And as a healthcare professional, I work with Jamaican/Caribbean MDs, Nigerian and Asian MDs, white, country accent having MDs/RNs, Egyptians, other nursing professionals from practically everywhere else on earth, INCLUDING the Caribbean, (even Guyana, which was colonized by the British) and they ALL have vernacular unique to their cultural upbringing.

    Does this make them any less professional, any less intelligent, worthy of respect because their English isn’t Standard American? Are their first and second generation children loved any less? It’s cultural–and from the development of JIVE to this outdated Ebonics, we have struggled to define our individuality and a unique identity for decades without it being undermined, stolen or belittled as not good enough.

    One very close friend of mine is Jamaican and he can literally turn on/turn off his accent! So what category does he go in? He’s American born and uses both! And so do I. I’ve had white ppl actually ask me “How do you just go back and forth like that? It’s cool. We don’t have a ‘different’ way to talk to each other.”

    And on the flip side, I’ve heard some ppl who spoke perfect Standard English, B.S. my ears off. Using big words, talking in circles, basically trying to circumvent then fact that they “didn’t know s___t.” All you have to do is watch political debates for a VERY good example of that one.

    Whether it be a Jamaican accent, or a complete language change when they are around ppl from their tribes or other cultural IDs, I’ve come to the realization that all the cutesy little ways we “other” one another is BS. We are ppl and all you have to do is look at the last census to see that ALL black/African Americans are THE SAME to our white run government. They just put all historical accuracy and erasure aside and just literally “eyeball” you.

    Then check a little box.

    I stand by my original sentiment.

    “We should all commit to learning about each others’ cultures and real HISTORY so that we can find a common ground and start reversing the intentional slandering and degradation of us the black man/woman as the last common denominator. When we see our better selves, we will want to be better. I truly believe that.”

    SK

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  481. @ lifelearner

    Thanks for the compliment! I really appreciate you reading my long a$$ (but heartfelt) soliloquies, LOL. :D (and mentioned in the same sentence as Kwamla)

    Abagond is the man! I love this blog, I’m totally addicted.

    SK

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  482. “I do agree that Black Americans have the right to offer constructive criticism to other Black Americans, but it should be done out of love, compassion and a genuine interest to uplift and not further damage the already delicate psyches of our people in this part of the Diaspora.”

    ~Amen!!! I agree :D

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  483. @ Sugarkiss–

    Does this make them any less professional, any less intelligent, worthy of respect because their English isn’t Standard American?

    This is what I don’t get. I didn’t say anything about anyone being “less intelligent” “less worthy of respect” or “not good enough.” Where did that come from? Just trying to have a regular conversations with some Black Americans can be stressful because it seems that you’re accusing me of something that I didn’t say. Other than that, why are you asking me this?

    This is one reason that friction starts. I said one thing, but you interpreted it as me saying something else.

    This is why I can walk past a group of Black Americans and not notice them, but they take it as insult if I don’t notice them when maybe my mind is on something else. They accuse me of being “stuck up” “uppity” and “think you’re white.” Some Black Americans are just too sensitive. They seem to want to be constantly stroked. They seem to think that everything is about them.

    Many Africans also speak a pidgin English, but I have never heard any of them in my entire life try to argue that their pidgin English should be on par with standard English. They know that might interfere with their children mastering standard English. I have read where some renowned Black American educators make the argument that instruction and standardized tests for Black Americans should be in Ebonics..

    This IMO is the same as Black Americans arguing for the use of the N-word as a term of endearment but become infuriated when others refer to them as Ns.. This would be outrageously stupid to every African I’ve ever met. My parents who are Black Americans feel the same way. That’s why I said: “Blacks of my persuasion.”

    Many groups of people mingle on jobs and in schools on a surface basis, but they don’t choose to mix socially in their private lives because they know that these kinds of differences and misinterpretations will cause constant friction.

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  484. @ Jorbia,

    I think that you also must consider that this is partly a social class issue. The fact is that most Blacks in America still fall within the lower 50% economically. Add to that the fact that for most of the “poor” in America they will never run out of food to eat, clothes to wear and shelter. And even things like a car and a 40″ LCD TV are pretty standard these days.

    But when you talk about African and Caribbean immigrants, these are often people who are motivated by lack of bread and REAL poverty. They are the ambitious who left all that they knew to seek a better life far away from home. So we’re talking about a factor of self-selection. There are plenty of lazy Africans left in Africa and Caribbeans in Caribbea! But in America, there is a certain kind of African that is looking for a certain kind of life.

    It’s important to recognize that this puts these immigrants at an advantage because the chaff has been winnowed from the wheat. If the situation were reversed, and only the most motivated Black Americans were going to Africa for a better life, than we might all be remarking with wonder on the industry and intelligence of the Black American immigrant to Africa.

    This needs to be said so that people understand that it is circumstance and not nationality that often makes the critical difference in motivation towards upward mobility.

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  485. King makes a good point: If you judged Black Americans only by those you saw in Japan or Finland you would get a very different picture.

    Voluntary immigrants come when things look promising. About half go back home. They tend to have better educations than most Americans. So comparing them to native-born Americans is hugely misleading.

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  486. If you went by the Black Americans you saw in Japan, you’d be judging based on people like this and would have a totally different impression.

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  487. @King–

    for most of the “poor” in America they will never run out of food to eat, clothes to wear and shelter. And even things like a car and a 40″ LCD TV are pretty standard these days

    Sounds like they’re complacent, but it’s from this group that many of the Black American social problems come. I wonder how effective anyone will be when they try to move people out of their complacent state. I guess we’re all trying to reach complacency. It’s just different for different people. No better, no worse.

    It’s important to recognize that this puts these immigrants at an advantage because the chaff has been winnowed from the wheat. If the situation were reversed, and only the most motivated Black Americans were going to Africa for a better life, than we might all be remarking with wonder on the industry and intelligence of the Black American immigrant to Africa.

    I agree. Many Black Americans don’t seem to recognize this and seem to think that we should all just get along when, as you said, the chaff has been winnowed from the majority of Africans they encounter here. We or those of my persuasion tend to be very goal-oriented. Black Americans don’t seem to like us for that. Africans tend to be inclusive by culture but do notice that the chaff has not been winnowed from the average Black American they meet. This is what causes some of the friction because water seeks its own level. So, it is social class.

    This needs to be said so that people understand that it is circumstance and not nationality that often makes the critical difference in motivation towards upward mobility.

    I agree. It’s values, background, experiences which all go into circumstance.

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  488. @King–

    I’m confused. I watched the entire video and I don’t usually ever do that. I wouldn’t need to go to Japan. I encounter lots of Black American women like this woman here in the U.S.

    I can’t say I understand why exactly you posted a video about a Black woman’s views on interracial relationships and her views about the “plenty of good Black men” was posted here. It almost sounded like a commercial selling Black men. :-)

    Regarding social class though, my experiences with Black American men have generally been that irrespective of their social class, they seem to think that any Black woman, irrespective of her social class, should be interested in them. That causes friction.

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  489. Oh sorry, it wasn’t so much about the specific content, She’s just an intelligent, educated, and independent, Black American girl teaching English in Japan over her summer vacation, a few years ago. She video blogged about her experiences while in Japan. Notice the distinct lack of Ebonics and/or slang and I think she’s a pretty good thinker. At any rate, she has other videos up on other subjects, I just grabbed the one that was on top.

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  490. “Jorbia,
    In my experience, lots of Blacks on the Continent view Blacks from certain Caribbean countries as quite similar to Blacks in the U.S. It’s not that anyone is better or worse, but people are different. Some differences are viewed as irreconcilable.

    I think that would be a rich discussion in itself to talk about the cultural ethics of different groups of Blacks, but I don’t think this board could handle that”

    Linda says,
    Very true…when I lived in London, I got a taste of the Nigerians vs Jamaicans ridiculousness, so yes, that is definitely another discussion all by itself.

    I got the general impression from the different African people I met, that their Ethnic identity is Very important and crucial to who they are and their views. In my opinion, they viewed us Afro-descendants of the Americas/Caribbean as “lost” souls with no real “identities” (in relation to Africa) – and in a way, they are right.

    But as someone mentioned, learning about and understanding has to go both ways when it comes to our Ethnic / cultural differences because when it comes down to dealing with “white supremecy” , we all (black/brown) have to wade through the same BS even though it presents itself in different ways.

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  491. Regarding social class though, my experiences with Black American men have generally been that irrespective of their social class, they seem to think that any Black woman, irrespective of her social class, should be interested in them.’

    You could say the exact same thing about White American men.

    I comes of not having Kings, Earls, and Duchesses.

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  492. @Linda–

    In my opinion, they viewed us Afro-descendants of the Americas/Caribbean as “lost” souls with no real “identities” (in relation to Africa) – and in a way, they are right.

    I agree and I’m glad you said that! But I’ve found that many Black Americans refuse to admit this. Lots of “lost” people with no identity. That’s the crux of it.

    But as someone mentioned, learning about and understanding has to go both ways when it comes to our Ethnic / cultural differences

    I think this is where there’s a significant amount of dishonesty about this topic. I don’t think that the Diasporans have nearly as much to teach the Africans that the Africans can’t get elsewhere. Both groups can always learn, but who has the greatest need? That being said, I don’t think that all Diasporans are in the same situation.

    because when it comes down to dealing with “white supremecy” , we all (black/brown) have to wade through the same BS even though it presents itself in different ways.

    This will sound like heresy on this site, but IMO, it’s not white supremacy that causes some of the more urgent problems of Black people, whether it’s in Africa or here. This is another area where honesty is crucial. Blacks could do much internally to improve their situation, if they were honest and if they had the will.

    Whenever, this is pointed out, Blacks in the west begin to talk about compassion and understanding to get others to shut up. I think that the situation of Blacks in America is a drastic situation and it will take drastic measures to resolve much of it. Compassion may make the parties feel good, but afterwards, they’ve still got the same problem. I would personally want someone to just help me to solve my problem and forget about the compassion. Compassion in some parts of this situation can be viewed as very cruel.

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  493. @King–

    You could say the exact same thing about White American men.

    I comes of not having Kings, Earls, and Duchesses.

    All men do it to an extent, but this too is a matter of intensity and degree.

    I think that many American women would confirm that some Black men often take harassment to a new level because sometimes when a Black woman refuses their attention, they often become more aggressive. This is another can of worms. Let’s put the lid back on it at this point.

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  494. Damn–only one person mentioned compassion on this thread, now it is a scare tactic that “Black Americans” use to get certain others to shut up–

    Now I’ve seen it all.

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  495. ^^ Not just “compassion” but also “empathy” “love” “understanding,” are all used to silence people, IMO.

    I’d love it if someone could tell me one issue that Blacks have that these have solved for Black Americans. Maybe I’m biased but if it were me, I’d prefer for someone to give me actual solutions instead of telling me they feel my pain.

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  496. on Fri 1 Mar 2013 at 23:38:54 Caffeine & Nicotine

    The thing is, Jorbia, tone & delivery does matter, even if they shouldn’t.

    Lots of people will turn a ‘deaf ear’ to great advice if it is delivered in a resentful or abrasive tone.

    I know that I am / can be abrasive in my manner of delivery also; but my nasty messages are to white racists, not to my own ethnic / cultural group, or to any other Afro-descended group for that matter.

    I actually think there is lots of wisdom — lots of stereotyping, too — in what you have to say, but truthfully, many of the people in your target audience are probably not giving your message / advice much, if any, consideration due to the perceived resentment and anti-“Black American” slant in nearly all your comments here.

    Venting frustrations with (or resentment of “Black Americans”) is not the same as offering advice to them.

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  497. Sugarkiss & Linda: Awesome comments. I just love how you break it down.

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  498. “Jorbia,
    This will sound like heresy on this site, but IMO, it’s not white supremacy that causes some of the more urgent problems of Black people, whether it’s in Africa or here. This is another area where honesty is crucial. Blacks could do much internally to improve their situation, if they were honest and if they had the will.”

    Linda says,

    When I talk about “white supremecy”—I don’t so much mean “white racism” because like I mentioned, black majority countries don’t have to deal with white people like how black Americans do/did.

    Yes, West Indians/Caribbeans and Africans do Very well in America (despite the racism we deal with also in USA) and we do have our own stores and businesses that we build and sustain in our own communities.

    But what bothers me is that we (black immigrants) cannot translate this success back home in our own countries …not for lack of trying because the poverty is still crushing our countries despite all the improved technology and educational system.

    Black Americans are giving away their money to white and other communities and are not building/ sustaining their own businesses and the fault lies within the black American community.

    and on a larger scale, black majority countries are doing the same thing.

    When I say “white supremecy” I mean: the dominance and control white American and European investors and government policies have on black/brown majority countries (like in Jamaica, Caribbean, Latin America, etc) which keeps our countries from strengthening our economies, our militaries, controlling our natural resources, and building up our industries so that we can realistically compete on the world stage.

    And from what I’ve read, many African countries have the same problem.

    Look how long tourism has been going on in the Caribbean / Jamaica, most of the money leaves the country with less then 20% going to the local economy.

    In my opinion