This has become a topic on the Latasha Harlins thread, but needs a thread of its own:
Kiwi said on bigWOWO on May 23rd 2017:
I agree that Abagond used to be great. That’s why I used to hang out so often on his blog. He was more balanced several years back but now he’s become little more than a self-interested extremist. He usually does a great job of sticking up for other people of color who are not Black but I’ve started to notice that maybe he’s just using them as his pawns. He supported SCA5 and attacked the protestors who called out the racial bias in Peter Liang’s indictment but he expects Asian support for Black Lives Matter to be a given. I can’t speak for King, but I suspect these kinds of things to be among the reasons he also left the blog.
I think the reason Asians tend not to be as politically vocal or active (insofar as that stereotype holds any truth) is not because Asians have smaller problems than other races (which is false, anyway) but because social justice activism is so heavily dominated by non-Asians that Asians constantly find themselves having to support other races while everyone else either ignores or attacks Asians.
King agreed and added:
Those were indeed the kind of reasons why I left.
But also things like
- Blacks can’t be racist because racism can only be defined as a huge social institution. If a Black man simply hates people just based on skin color, he is not a racist. I thoroughly reject this idea.
- A Stasi-like system of self-policing in which everyone’s credibility is constantly questioned if they disagree with the common assumptions of SJW worldview. Anyone can be a “traitor” if they start asking too many questions or have differing opinions.
- A long but steady reduction of voices with differing views, through scapegoating and broad-brushing and ridicule. One by one, voices of reason kept vanishing until it has become small group of people who all think very much alike, (save one or two polarizing gadflies.)
- Inconsistency: Like condemning statements like “Black people stink.” Yet defending statements like, “White people stink” by explaining that he didn’t say ALL White people!!!
Jefe on this blog, in answer to King’s comment:
I must admit that I found this blog much more rewarding 3-6 years ago. In the past few years it has devolved into more of the SJW dogpiling that they were referring to, or sometimes just drivel.
King’s point #1 — it became anathema to him and I more or less feel the same way. And I do remember when that surfaced prominently on this blog, he left soon after that. The result is a much higher concentration of audience that shares that opinion (and hence a noticeably poorer quality of posting and commentary).
Mary Burrell observes:
I have decided to just go into lurker mode and not comment sometimes I can’t read the comments on this forum has they have devolved into madness and trolling from certain posters. Especially during and after the elections. I miss the discourse from earlier years past.
If you want to comment on this privately, please email me at abagond at gmail.com. Thanks!
See also:
- SJW
- Black Lives Matter
- All Blacks are racist
- The “not all White people” argument
- Latasha Harlins
- Aaron Mak – SCA5 and such
- Peter Liang
Abagond, I’ll say it again – you’re the one who got me into blogging. I read your blog regularly and decided to get it a try myself in 2013. I’m very addicted to it now.
Your blog remains exciting, interesting, relevant, and important. Your blog remains the one with each new post. You are great. The blogging world needs your voice! 🙂
Andrew
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lol. you guys are too much. thats one of the myths that abagond created and it just underscored what was said by king about the hassling of those with contrary povs. i have seen nothing of the sort. get over abagonds paranoia. its likely one of the reasons for the alleged decline. what came over this blog that i witnessed in my year of commentary is russophobia and neo-mccartheyism. aka trump derangement syndrome.
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@ nomad
Comment deleted for moderated language.
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abagond
lol. in less explicit terms
anyone who thinks im a paid kremlin troll EFF YOU!!!
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I agree with Mary that it has gotten increasingly hostile around here, but I have watched worse unfold too. It wasn’t just the election because when racist trolls appeared it was similarly bad.
I have yet to continue reading the Peter Liang thread, but they are describing it as a hostile situation that I have not gathered from it at all. The arguments with Kiwi were hostile as he made them that way, but with King they were not despite there being a difference of opinion. It was quite an interesting discourse. Now King actually engaged in ridicule himself at times. While I am all for people changing, it is pretty odd he forgets threads where he took part it it. Or is it not the same when it is a stark racist or troll?
Focusing on Kiwi’s statement. I don’t remember you speaking much on the thread or the Peter Liang protesters to get the idea that you attacked them. I have yet to see anyone on this thread “expect” Asian support. The attitude has regularly been that some blacks on here don’t want or expect it, yet a running theme with Kiwi has been the expectation of black help. Often denouncing their efforts because they don’t support on issues he wants.
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WoWo from his blog:
“I wasn’t around to see the implosion, but I just cracked up when I read King’s post, especially the part about the inconsistencies! Again, I wasn’t there, but isn’t that the case with so many of these SJW sites?”
I wasn’t aware Abagond imploded lol
I don’t see Abagonds blog as a “social justice site”. His blog does cover issues like that but it goes far deeper then that. It is after all 500 words about *his opinion” on whatever he wants to talk about.
My criticism of Abagond would be that he seems to have moved more towards mainstream positions (Russiagate ect). He also seems to have more faith in the State as a means of righting wrongs as well as believing American democracy could work if the right people were elected ect. I’m far more skeptical that the system can change. That the system can change and see the State as a weapon of mass destruction.
I don’t think any posters here are “paid by the Kremilin”. Similarly I don’t buy into Nomads conspiracy theories. I do side with Nomad and Origin on how the media functions and pointing out obvious hypocrisies within the political theater.
Regardless I can disagree with Abagond and not feel the need to prove him wrong. I’m certainly not going to disrespect him, call him liar, or fill his threads with toxic dribble.
I have learned a lot over the years here and have hopefully become a better human because of it. Thank you Abagond.
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There seems to be a lot of tossing about the term, Social Justice Warrior (SJW). It is used as a put down of people who hold progressive views supporting Civil Rights, Feminism, Environmentalism and LGBTQ Rights, etc.
This seems to be another case of people across the political spectrum adopting right wing, reactionary definitions and worldview. Those definitions lead to limited discourse and fear of seeming too involved in what I consider necessary struggles, even among people who are politically progressive.
I think those of us who are progressive in our politics and our ideas about the future we want should critically examine language and terms that denigrate the work we do (and have done for years) to bring about a more just nation and world.
Many people who frequent this blog as lurkers and commenters are progressive and egalitarian in their outlook. We were drawn to this blog because Abagond put into words conditions, attitudes and behaviors we have observed for years/decades. He deconstructed many myths about Black, Asian, Latino, Indigenous, Arab and White people. I have also learned a lot from other commenters even when I vehemently disagreed with their position. Abagond structured an online space where we could speak freely away from the constraints of “The Plantation” aka White Officialdom.
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@Solitaire
From what I read I got the same sense of civility. Several disagreed with King, but none seemed to be in full on attack mode. I only got a combative nature from Kiwi and even still people were doing their best to engage in a fair discourse despite that.
“The thing that most struck me about Bigwowo is he seems to consider himself a moderate but he sounds like a conservative to me, especially in stressing personal responsibility and black pathology arguments.”—I can be big on personal responsibility at times, so that maybe a reason why it was easy for me to overlook things that were part of my own personal thought process. A odd point is Kiwi is constantly talking about Asian SJW focusing too much on black issues, but then ignore the fact that the group he clings to focus too much on black pathology? So is focusing on the bad things black do positive and focusing on the negative wrong? How is that really different from a white supremacy site?
“That was weird and highly suspect.”—Agreed. I always ask for the receipts. If people got time to brag about volunteer work then they have time to show me. However, it touches back to what I said above….why focus on a group you already complain most SJW focus on already? Just my thoughts.
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mjb
cant blame you for that, though i dont do ‘conspiracy theory’ in what has become the conventional sense of the word, which as i say is a social control term.
im free to think whatever i want about anything i want regardless of the stigma attached to the notion of such behavior.
i speculate beyond the boundaries of mind control. but, im curious. which of my “conspiracy theories” dont you buy.?
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“Inconsistency: Like condemning statements like ‘Black people stink.’ Yet defending statements like, ‘White people stink’ by explaining that he didn’t say ALL White people!!!”
I’ve noticed that tendency of abagond’s too. Sometimes I wonder if he doesn’t mind being a little too negative towards White people, maybe to balance the often-critical media coverage of Black people. Other than that issue, I don’t have any serious complaints about this blog that I can think of right now. I have learned about a variety of topics from abagond, for which I am grateful. I admire his knowledge, patience, and thoughtfulness.
I think that over the years, this blog has gone from being more general and random in its topic coverage to having more of a focus on current social and political issues. That change has also resulted in the tone of the posts seeming less casual and more serious. However, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with being an intellectual “warrior” for the cause of justice. In that sense, I actually aspire to be more like abagond.
@ abagond
What is the meaning of the picture of the two women?
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What the ‘flock’ is SJW?
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@gro jo: SJW Social Justice Warriors that term is starting to annoy me.
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@Paige: That is a scene from the 2007 film Freedom Writers.
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i had to look that up myself. social justice warrior.. sounds vaguely derogatory. like ‘conspiracy theorist’. except ‘conspiracy theorist’ has become so blatantly derogatory, it is a de facto insult.
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Being prejudiced is not being racist it’s prejudiced . I know you all swear by this
So show me a system structure run by blacks that effects the economics, education , etc of non colors you can’t wake up the same ones that bomded asians inslaved us get out your own way the same
As
We need to
Wake UP
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@nomad
I actually consider it quite similar to throwing out the term ‘conspiracy theorist’ as both are terms used to make the accused seem irrational. There thoughts or points not worth listening too.
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Ok, I got it. Kiwi wanted more concentration on why he couldn’t get laid. Kiwi, that’s what shrinks are for. I don’t see what the problem is. Aside from the ridiculous filter that blocks proper names, people get to say their piece. Nobody is obliged to agree with you. I’ve criticized Abagond when I thought he was wrong and will do so in the future for the same reason. The only thing that happened on the Peter Liang thread, was that Kiwi didn’t get a pass for defending Asian racism. Tough.
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@gro jo
I agree. We are all subject to criticism whether we like it or not.
On that note I bow out. I’m glad King found a blog that he enjoys though.
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This is my comment that Sharina was replying to above:
https://abagond.wordpress.com/open-thread/#comment-373349
@ Sharina
I agree that Kiwi got out of hand, but I felt there were a couple people on the Liang thread who were willfully misunderstanding him. Even now when he shows up there is often a chorus of “Kiwi wants Asian cops to be able to get away with killing innocent black people the same way white cops do.” Kiwi never said that but it has gotten stuck to him from repetition which began on that thread. That said, Kiwi has sunk so low since then that my feelings about what happened last year are not anywhere as sympathetic as they were then.
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@ Sharina
“Or is it not the same when it is a stark racist or troll?”
I think this might be it. King says at least a couple times on the Liang thread something like “let’s please remember we’re all friends here and this is an in-house discussion”
Maybe he felt it was one thing to lay into a troll and another thing for a frequent commenter.
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@ Mary Burrell
“SJW Social Justice Warriors that term is starting to annoy me.”
It’s bugged the hell out of me since I first heard it. There’s no doubt that it is meant to be derogatory.
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@Solitare: Exactly I think it’s a way for people who are not empathetic to social justice issues to be jerks.
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Any time the word ‘warrior’ is used, sjw, eco warrior… it’s always meant to be derogatory.
I enjoy ur blog very much Abagond, I’ve learnt so much from it over the years, Yes, there is sometimes some really nasty bitching here and emotions can run high. I’ve noticed people sometimes read comments only the way they want to and refuse to understand what others are saying. Hey, that’s life x
Was saddened that Zoe was run off, enjoyed reading what she had to say.
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@ Mary Burrell
Thanks… why do you suppose abagond decided to use a picture from Freedom Writers?
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@Paige: I don’t know only Abagond can answer that. If my memory serves me right I believe the Hilary Swank character was a teacher who was a social justice ally and wanted help her students who were from marginalized groups become successful students and graduate high school and have some hope that they could continue to their educations. Many would say the Swank character was a white savior trope.
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@ Paige
I typed the title of the post into Google Images to see what would pop up. The picture at the top was one of them. I chose it for Hillary Swank’s concerned look.
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@”If it’s any consolation, I think your writing, i.e. the posts themselves – forget commenters for a minute – have actually become better since I started reading here”
As we know, this is a disingenuous comment. First, he’s been commenting for only two years out of 10+ that abagond’s blog has existed. Second, he’s had many criticisms of abagond in those 2 short years, including this one:
“I’m starting to think Abagond selectively enforces ad hominem rules” – Lord of Mirkwood aka scrib.
So he’s on record agreeing that abagond has been biased. But now that he’s in abagond’s good graces because they supported the same presidential candidate and abagond’s longtime commenters are dropping like flies, he’s now flip flopped.
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@nomad
“lol. you guys are too much. thats one of the myths that abagond created and it just underscored what was said by king about the hassling of those with contrary povs.”
+1000
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Karma is wonderful indeed. Abagond was just “ridiculing” me today, saying “You used to be a good commenter” and now here he is crying about how he “used to be great but has devolved” because he caught feelings over King’s recent comments about him.
Just goes to show that evil actions never go unpunished.
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@ Zoe Jordan
“Was saddened that Zoe was run off…”
Zoe was not “run off”. When contradictions in her comments were brought to her attention she chose to exit.
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@resw
“Karma is wonderful indeed.”
Agreed.
Ponder on that statement when you face your karma.
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“The Only Thing That Is Constant Is Change.” – Heraclitus
Abagond, keep up the good work! Although I may not agree with you on many subjects but that is to be expected, after all, we are human beings and not beholden to the programmable rudiments of robots. When I’m in disagreement with Abagond, I’ve sometimes challenged him and on other occasions, I simply close the webpage and chuckle in silence, relative to what I just read.
Nonetheless, just because someone’s view or opinion may be different from that of another blogger, doesn’t in the least sense point to the devolvement of another individual’s blog posts. People’s views and or opinion are just that, and not subject to the whims or feelings of another individual’s disposition.
@jefe said: “I must admit that I found this blog much more rewarding 3-6 years ago. In the past few years it has devolved into more of the SJW dogpiling that they were referring to, or sometimes just drivel.”
Really! It seems as if you’ve also participated in this so called “drivel” that you alluded to as well. Here, just a few posts ago when you inquired of Abagond: “If RT is better than one, but worse than the other, what does that mean?”
I THEN RESPONDED on his behalf: It means exactly what Abagond wrote, which was: “Overall they(RT) are better than Fox News but not as good as MSNBC.”
To me, stating that someone’s blog isn’t as good as it once was in past years, is just as silly as being invited by a friend to lunch at his or her home. However, once you realize that the friend didn’t prepare what YOU had in mind, you immediately got up from the table, slam the door and left in disgust. What an ungrateful son of a b4tch!
To Kiwi and King, good riddance!
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“…but I felt there were a couple people on the Liang thread who were willfully misunderstanding him. Even now when he shows up there is often a chorus of “Kiwi wants Asian cops to be able to get away with killing innocent black people the same way white cops do.” Kiwi never said that but it has gotten stuck to him from repetition which began on that thread.”
What Kiwi tried to do was justify the Asian protests claiming that Liang was some kind of victim because if he had been white he would not have been tried for his action. I don’t regret pointing out to him that he and his community were full of sh8.
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Solitaire
This maybe a bit off but….
Abagond’s blog is not good for kiwi and it never was going to be. The more Abagond changed the more it surfaced the deep inner issues of kiwi. Kiwi was always hostile and rude towards trolls, drop in Asian female commenters, and white men who dated Asian women. Abagond’s blog provided a place for him to lash out about white men without recourse. Once the blog started to change so too did kiwi and Peter Lang really was the awakening. Looking back he said he agreed the Liang should be in jail, but on the same note agreed with the protesters who, as I remember, were claiming Liang’s innocence. That maybe where the mix up was for others as well.
Bigwowo also isn’t a good place for kiwi, because it plays on his primal thought but doesn’t address the root of his issues. Kiwi needs to address that before any blog or space will be of value to him. He has to work on himself. Until then😔
As to King, perhaps that is how he felt.
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Abagond bent over backwards to provide a platform for kiwi’s racist views. Abagond never deemed as off-topic kiwi’s anti-black derailments on multiple threads on which he commented, unlike what abagond routinely does to other commenters who go off topic. He even allowed kiwi to post a racist post about the bootstrap myth, which was thoroughly refuted with evidence. And despite this kiwi still turned his back on abagond.
Meanwhile abagond has unfairly treated his many longtime commenters who did nothing but take opposing views and present facts that made abagond mad. And this is all well documented.
So we’ve learned that abagond is hostile to commenters who respond with facts about RT, Russia, and the presidential candidate for whom he voted, and provides a platform for racist commenters who routinely derail threads with their anti-black lies.
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@ resw
I find it rather odd that you cry the loudest about my mistreatment and yet are one of the most frequent commenters.
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@abagond,
I don’t comment a lot here but I do read the posts. They’re always good. I’ve never felt you had an agenda, just an opinion. I’m under no illusion that you will always agree with my opinion. I wouldn’t even expect you to bend the truth to allow me to feel good about my particular race or ethnicity. Adults are supposed to be able to learn from the past.
And, just for the record, there is no shame in being a social justice warrior because at least your fighting for justice. It would be far worse if you were fighting to preserve an existing oppressive power structure that benefitted you but you were too myopic to recognize it. I myself am a Ju Ju Warrior.
Also, too, furthermore……..I think somewhere in the Bible it says that if the disciples ever visited a town where the people were hostile they were supposed to dust their sandals off and move on to the next town. Advice well taken. ahem 😉
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i didnt follow that discussion closely, but from what i did observe it seems she was indeed ‘run off’. I would have liked her to stick around.
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MAGA
Donald Trump says, “Make Abagond Great Again”
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This post is another Abagond manipulation ploy. Note that he doesn’t bother to give his own opinion on the topic. The peons are expected to line up to praise or condemn the great leader. If Abagond is concerned about what Kiwi is saying about him on another blog, he should go there and confront him and his other detractors. I just want to seat back and watch the fight, otherwise, this is boring.
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@ gro jo
I already know my own opinion. I want to hear what others have to say, especially on an issue where I am particularly susceptible to blind spots.
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“I already know my own opinion.” Why keep it a secret to the rest of us? Your post should have been in a Q and A format where you answer the objections raised by your erstwhile acolytes.
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@abagond
And I find it odd how you keep dodging the legitimate concerns so many of your regular commenters have.
I appreciate that you keep making this about me, as you and your team mates usually do when challenged, but this post is about you this time, so try to stay on topic.
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@ gro jo
According to King this blog is bedeviled by groupthink, so the less I say the better, especially in the early part of the thread.
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quite understandable
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Re: Zoe situation
No one can make you do anything. She chose to leave when she was challenged on an issue. LOM makes ridiculous statements and claims, is challenged and he still returns so that says a lot about choice and the idea of being “ran off”.
On top of that she used a similar tactic as LOM and if he is challenged on it then why not her? Had she stayed, and she should have stayed, she would have been enable to engage in a discussion about why throwing out your “black father” as a means to shut up another commenter is wrong. This is the same as when LOM throws out the Irish as a means to tell blacks what they should do or how oppressed the Irish is like blacks.
It is also a tactic used by whites when they want to claim oppression for rights native Americans are fighting. Ie “I know oppression because I’m part Indian”. Or one I have seen mixed kids used to ignore racism against blacks, Latinos, and Asians. Ie “I’m mixed so…”
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@ Sharina
“This maybe a bit off but….”
No, that was brilliant. I hadn’t ever pulled all the pieces together and you did.
I know I have gotten a reputation as a Kiwi defender or babysitter, but when I first started posting I was extremely wary of him. I thought he would hate me but instead he was friendly right away. I guess I should have seen it coming since I am the flip side of the people he rails about, one of those “rare” white women who are with AAPI men. I still didn’t like his hostility towards others but I felt we might be able to work on that. Unfortunately it didn’t turn out that way. If anyone imploded on this blog, it was Kiwi not Abagond.
With King, I wish he would come back because I miss him. But I’m not particularly worried about him. From what lurking I’ve done at Bigwowo he seems to be the same old King. I saw one thread where he was defending BLM.
With Kiwi, he’s burned his bridges; he’s never going to be able to find a place here again and I know that. But I’m very worried about the path he’s on and who he’s going to become.
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I can see why people are saying Zoe got run off, and perhaps we should have been gentler and spoonfed and held her hand.
But if you read through it, she wasn’t trying to address the issue at all, kept repeating the same stories to no purpose, contradicted herself even more when she tried to justify and defend herself, and accused people of using the angry emotional Arab stereotype when nobody had and without taking into consideration that there’s exactly that same stereotype about black people.
She got very emotional very quickly for someone who claimed to be a long-time activist in multiracial coalitions. She could have calmly addressed Afrofem’s concerns instead of reacting with outrage that she had been challenged.
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@ Anne
*”It would be far worse if you were fighting to preserve an existing oppressive power structure that benefitted you but you were too myopic to recognize it.”
Perfect. Thank you, this is going to be my new comeback.
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‘Run off’ may not be the exactly the right words, as sharinalr pointed out. We are all adults who make choices, so she chose to leave.
The point I really wanted to make is that I would have liked to hear more from her. The regular commentors on here can be quite hard core and I guess she couldn’t take the heat.
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@ Zoe Jordan
I wanted to hear more from her also. More than anything, I wanted to read factual information. She was not very forthcoming in that regard.
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@ Abagond
“the less I say the better, especially in the early part of the thread.”
Understandable. But if you do decide to comment later on, I for one am interested in what your initial reaction was, before this thread got started.
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“@ gro jo
According to King this blog is bedeviled by groupthink, so the less I say the better, especially in the early part of the thread.”
I noticed that you are particularly sensitive to criticism from the likes of Kiwi, king, etc., but unmoved when it comes from talibmensah, who, in my opinion, stood head and shoulders above the likes of Kiwi et al. Why is that? xpraetorius accused you of the same thing but you had no problem giving him the heave ho. Tell us what it is about King and Kiwi you find so valuable? If you are going to introspect, you should do so honestly.
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@”Tell us what it is about King and Kiwi you find so valuable?”
I find it odd that abagond said this:
“@ resw77 @ kiwi
I would not waste my breath on gro jo or talibmensah. They do not have a particle of interest in Timbuktu or even their own Eurocentrism. They just want to troll.”
But never called out kiwi for being a troll on all the many threads he derailed to bash black people and talk about himself, Asians and Joel Lee.
“If you are going to introspect, you should do so honestly.”
LOL. We all know that ain’t happening.
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@ abagond
Thanks for explaining.
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@Zoe Jordan
Putting it in perspective we could say “ran off” and realistically I could have reworded my issues with her so that they were clear and less passive aggressive.
I agree commmenters here are very hardcore and it is really hard to say anything without it being skewed as something else. Being defensive can make it even harder to explain. However, the worst things to see is people who have the potential to be great turn into a GR (not sure if we are allowed to say his name) or a LOM.
I think Zoe could be a great Ally and activist for causes, but she should never saddle herself to ideas that only work under the condition that the world is racially equal. Just my thoughts. Thank you for sharing yours.
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nowadays people only seem to read things that they agree with. Goes along with your recent alt right news diets, in that you’re aware of this and trying to gain perspectives outside of your own echo chamber. It’s a bizarre world we live in where people throw out dissenting opinions like a pair of old shoes. It’s a very capitalist perspective and it’s making people more extreme. I don’t always agree with your posts but I continue to read for a fresh perspective and a grasp at understanding. Thanks for posting.
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I’ve been reading Abagond a lot of years. If anything his writing has only improved. His topics have increased and broadened as well.
I once took issue with Abagond because I felt he gave women in general and black women in particular a much harder time than he did men. What I learned from that experience is that Abagond is more than willing to really listen to the experiences of others and adjust his point of view even if it means revealing that publicly.
He writes 500 words on a topic which leaves a lot of room for interpretation and discussion. There’s a saying on the internet they says if you want the answer to a question, don’t post the question, post the wrong answer and people will fall over themselves “correcting” you.
By that same token, I see a lot of people so busy playing “gotcha” or declaring “you forgot to include…” as if he could include the entire history of discrimination against Asians in America in a 500 word post (that’s just an example by the way).
I feel that Abagond gives us a lot of food for thought. And as he has said in the past, he doesn’t write this blog for white people, but I think, if I might take the liberty, he could expand that to he doesn’t write this blog for extra critical people who are not willing to understand his truth, his mindset, and the world that he shares with people who are like-minded to his point of view.
It’s not always about agreeing. It’s about expanding your knowledge or even being aware of certain topics. Personally, I’ve been impressed with the broad range of topics he has introduced lately, by which I mean the past two years or so. If anything it’s obviously in response to his broader readership and the fact that he is well aware that not only black people suffer from this oppression thing.
I am glad that rather than playing the Oppression Olympics (whose oppression is greater) he has simply stated the injustices dealt to many. And in between he has some really good music posts.
Lighten up already. Free your mind and the rest will follow.
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@Solitare
Thanks. You can use it as much as you want. It’s the truth. I wish I had a way to count the number of times people go out of there way to defend the status quo against changes that would help other people while claiming that they are doing it out of principle. It’s almost as if we really feared kindness was scarce. Anyway, SJW pride!
MAGA=Make A**holes Go Away
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@Anne: LULZ @ MAGA = Make A**holes Go Away.😂😂😂
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As usual, excellent commentaries and comments on one of the best blogs on the internet. Wouldn’t miss it for the world. Much love to Abagond and my fellow commenters : the satisfied and the dissatisfied.
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I agree with some of King’s points.
However, that said:
1) I have only been at this blog since September 2014, which is less than three years ago. Therefore, I am not the one to say that Abagond was better three years ago;
2a) I read this blog, among other reasons, to read opinions that are not necessarily mine. If I now go complaining that Abagond is writing things I disagree with, then I would betray my original intentions to be here anyway. 2b) And for the record: the other reasons to read this blog are the pieces on language, on media and the links to good music.
3) In recent years, the media of the world paid more attention to BLM, diversity and unarmed black men getting shot by the police. It would have been strange if this blog wouldn’t have paid attention to those issues as well.
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a–holes cannot run me away. suck it. the only person that can run me away is abagond.
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“This is the belief that someone or some group is conspiring against them. They could be cheating, spying on, harassing, or gossiping about them, or even attempting to poison or drug them. They are often angry and resentful with deep feelings of injustice.” – Psychology Today
“A delusion is a belief held by an individual or group that is demonstrably false, patently untrue, impossible, fanciful, or self-deceptive.” – Psychology Today
Some have stated that Kiwi and King’s arguments are run of the mill “Olympic Oppression.” To me, this is one of the silliest terms that I’ve ever heard of. On the other hand, it lend support to a certain extent that these two subjects have a valid argument when in fact, they don’t!
A more appropriate clinical term that will easily explain their behavior and general postings is, persecutory delusion.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/sideways-view/201506/the-psychology-delusions
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the first comment i ever made to abagond directly as a person was ‘great blog’. i still mean it. doesnt mean i shove my pov aside and adopt his. i am a man of strong opinion and sharp criticism. my goal is truth. cant handle that, thats your problem.
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@Blaksage.
I don’t believe King has “persecutory delusion” or anything else. He is a balanced individual with his own opinions that may differ from others here. His differences doesn’t make him crazy or unhinged.
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LOL @MJB, I highly suggest that you reread the definition of persecutory delusion. Kiwi and King both fit the description perfectly.
Hell, it would be silly of me to say or proffer a theory without further information or data to demonstrate my position. Even further, it would be quite ignorant of me to say that I’m visited every night by aliens but yet, unable to provide one scintilla of evidence to backup my story.
On the other hand, you are correct, we are all entitled to our opinions, just don’t expect yours truly to believe it at first sight. As for yourself, you have the right to believe what you want to believe. Just don’t believe for one second that my opinion is going to be in sync with yours.
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I may have introduced the idea that King felt personally persecuted, and that may have been wrong. Everything King said about why he left was a general statement. He never said he personally felt victimized. He could just as easily meant that he saw (or believed he saw) these things happening to other commenters and decided he no longer cared for the atmosphere.
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@MJB = My opinion must parallel his.
@Solitaire = Mind reading capabilities. He is the only one keenly aware of what King truly meant.
LOL, you folks are too much!
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@blakksage
+1000
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“My opinion must parallel his.”
Not at all. I just respectfully disagree.
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@Solitaire
After my last comment to you that is actually what I gathered after reading his statement again. However, the ridicule and dogpiling he is referring to are actions he took part in on this blog. I like king and have no ill will towards him, but it would be entirely dishonest to say he was innocent of the very action he takes issues with.
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Heh. Even over at Bigwowo’s they’re telling Kiwi he has a persecution complex.
http://www.bigwowo.com/2017/05/when-asian-sjws-play-jesus/#comment-327645
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@ Nomad
Hey, Garden of Earthly Delights is back! You look like yourself again!
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lol. good eye, solitaire. garden of earthly delights, portion of hell panel. my alter ego is ironymous bosch.
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got to get a higher resolution image.
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@Solitaire
Funny part about it is they were basically telling him the same stuff many of us already told him here.
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@ Sharina
ikr?!
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@ nomad
“ironymous bosch”
LOL
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Here’s my take on this:
I honestly didn’t know it was coming to this with a few people, especially Kiwi and King. But in the end, you can’t please all of the people all of the time.
I used to hang out in this blog often when I started blogging on my own. In fact, Abagond is one of my main influences. But I haven’t been coming around as often as I used to recently not because of the topics or the comments from certain visitors, but because I was focusing on other things. I held no ill-will towards him, and I didn’t agree on everything he wrote. But still, I respected it. In the end, it’s his blog, and I still learn a few things from him and other bloggers.
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@Nomad: I too have been curious about your avatar. Solitare beat me to it. I was surfing the net looking at art work. Your avatar has always made me curious because it was strange i too learned about this artist Hieronymus Bosch a Dutch painter and the painting is called Garden of Earthly Delights. Your avatar is a small part of what is called a triptych. I am glad Solitaire is commenting on this because i was going to comment on this very same thing. What a coincidence.
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I come here for two things; different perspectives and entertainment. The twoing and froing can get tedious at times as it cuts into people posting their opinions. The information sharing is a nice dividend too.
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I came to this blog, because I wanted to understand how to deal with Caucasian Arab racism against Afro Arabs. I discovered this blog by accident and it has really helped a lot.. I only recently started comment when I felt that my written English was good enough. King was one those people I use to love reading, he use of the English and his logic was just incredible. So I cant believe that he is now in support of some like Bigwowo. Also I use to like Kiwi, until be became this anti black Asian man.
I am sorry that I created this situation, I only mentioned it because I didnt think what King was saying was true.
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Nah, Ab – you’ve actually gotten better in your writing and research.
I’m in the nightclub business and one of the drawbacks is when they become TOO popular.
Everyone wants to get in but those who have been there the longest expect to be treated better than someone who just wondered in for the first time.
I have to constantly remind my waitstaff to pay special attention to those who may be coming in for the first time.
The death of a club is when there is nothing but regulars and nothing new to see or meet – same-old same-old….. .
I think your page and commenters are fine.
Lots of name calling though but nowhere near as bad as the straight-up ish-talk on the old Denmark Vesey or Undercover Black Man or Subrealism blogs. Even the blog owners would cuss you out on those pages if you couldn’t defend your points of view.
All these little arguments are as harmless as slap boxing on the block. No one gets mad until they get slapped too hard or too often.
Believe me – your site is polite by comparison.
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@Mary Burrell
“i too learned about this artist Hieronymus Bosch a Dutch painter and the painting is called Garden of Earthly Delights. ”
another one of them high renaissance artists. thats why his paintings are so weird.
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oops. too early in the morning. bosch was not high renaissance. he was early renaissance.
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I hope im not a ‘polarizibg gadfly’ but this place is still an oasis to me.
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To be honest (lol) im surprised abagond doesnt stray towards the technical in some of this political stuff but frfr the whold country is being more like galvanized? And i enjoy the history lessons and chatting about stuff idk. I been here a long time.
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@ nomad @ Mary Burrell
My professor said Bosch kind of bridged the gap between late medieval and early renaissance.
Nevertheless the dude was obviously high!
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Regarding dog piling:
I know that sometimes happens on this blog and have participated in it.
Dog piling against an idea or position should be avoided. Dog piling against an individual whose a racist or being a d*ck is a legitimate form of self defense. Nothing wrong with ostrisizing those who would make this blog toxic.
The blog owner of WoWo thinks all of Abagonds posters are all “far left” and “progressive”. He thinks that Black posters all think the same way here making this place an echo chamber. That’s not the case.
Most regular posters here accept the premise that white supremacy underlies the culture within the Western world. But beyond that there is quite a bit of difference in approach, political theory, preferred economics ect that reflect personal preference.
This last election cycle showed just how much this blog was not an echo chamber.
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@michaeljonbarker
” Dog piling against an individual whose a racist or being a d*ck is a legitimate form of self defense. “—In the art of fairness…..no. They are still sharing an opinion and if it is wrong one way then it is wrong the other.
“The blog owner of WoWo thinks all of Abagonds posters are all “far left” and “progressive”.”—Which goes to show he did not do his research prior to making that statement or he has persecutory delusion as mentioned above. Heck in the link that solitaire posted he is telling kiwi almost word for word what he has been told here.
In a google search I found quite a few blog owners in this imaginary competition with Abagond. From claiming to debunk his post to claiming how their blog is better and posters supporting it. They want their own many echo chamber with the traffic abagond has, but don’t have the material to get the traffic. BgWowo is one of such people. Imagine what could be done if some of those people focused on their own blog instead of trying to be better than the next.
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@Rabab
I am glad you brought it up. It was quite enlightening.
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solitaire
i think bosch was late gothic. come to think of it. definitely a bridge to the renaissance. that garden of earthly delights triptych, would you believe it was a church altar? it was a strange religious sect he belonged to if you ask me.
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we are going way off topic but, since this is a black blog, i want to point out there were a number of black people in this 15th century dutch artist’s vision of paradise.
(btw. im getting senile. i used to teach this stuff, so i should know what period bosch is from)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e7/Bosch%2C_Hieronymus_-The_Garden_of_Earthly_Delights%2C_center_panel–Detail_women_with_peacock.jpg/400px-Bosch%2C_Hieronymus–The_Garden_of_Earthly_Delights%2C_center_panel-_Detail_women_with_peacock.jpg
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adam and eve were white tho
https://static.greatbigcanvas.com/images/singlecanvas_thick_none/bridgeman-art-library/the-garden-of-earthly-delights-the-garden-of-eden-left-wing-of-triptych-c-1500,2328651.jpg?max=540
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@ nomad
Late Gothic sounds right. But isn’t Bosch one of those suo generis types? Like , iirc most altar triptychs then would have reverent depictions of the Virgin and Child, the Apostles, lots of halos and angels and kneeling saints with eyes lifted to heaven? And then here’s Bosch over in his own surrealist world painting his nightmares….
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And does that lady seriously have a peacock standing on her head?
These are the types of questions Bosch’s works raise. He’s several centuries ahead of his time!
Also LOL at the “kilroy was here” woman peeping over the bank of the pool…
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remember. these guys worked at the behest of the church. they were pretty much putting church ideology into imagery. this was commissioned work. if this sect didnt outright tell bosch what they wanted, they at least sanctioned it. i suspect some school of gnosticism.
i think he was very much in his time. part of the religious ferment with alchemy to boot.
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“Late Gothic sounds right”
no. we classify him as renaissance. the very beginning. this painting is around the turn of the 16th century. morning fog clearing.
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oh. i should say “Northern Renaissance”. Quite a bit different than the Italian Renaissance.
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. Imagine what could be done if some of those people focused on their own blog instead of trying to be better than the next.
I wonder why they give a shite as it is anonymous people responding.
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Thanks nomad for bringing forth this information.
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anytime, herneith. thats my field. i could go on and on.
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@ nomad
You would know better than me, you’re the expert.
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the reason i suspect gnosticism. a lot of sexual stuff going on.
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@”—In the art of fairness…..no. They are still sharing an opinion and if it is wrong one way then it is wrong the other.”
+1000. They should understand that their “dogpiling” is making this blog “toxic.” Especially since their attacks have been proven to be “unprovoked”.
It represents a high level of intolerance to inconvenient facts and opposing viewpoints, all of which contradicts the “liberal” values they pretend to share.
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bosch could be late gothic. born 1450. renaissance beginning usually dated 1500.
Late Gothic though, has a certain static quality. Bosch figures are animated, hence leaning towards some of the concerns of Renaissance artists. Check out the master of Late Gothic. An altarpiece by Jan van Eyck.
quintessential Late Gothic, but he was foreshadowing the Renaissance too with his heightened naturalism. also the attitude towards the naked body displays the proper amount of shame.
So its a fine line. These Late Gothic Northern artists were definitely proto Renaissance and, before 1500, they were more advanced than their Italian counterparts. In naturalism. The Italians took off around 1500 with their invention of linear perspective.
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lol. i really am senile. the dates are messed up there. i wish i could delete that post. but the general thrust is true. now i recall, indeed they called these guys late gothic, even though they were contemporary with early italian renaissance.
heck. forget everything i just said.
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@ Sharina
Did we dogpile Zoe?
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renaissance begins 1400. high renaissance begins 1500. (they say 1490 but i like round figures) sorry for the missinfo.
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OFF TOPIC: Bosch and painting.
You can continue on the Open Thread.
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@Solitaire
We did in some regards. However, it is a matter of if you consider dogpiling massive amount of ridicule and petty fighting or simply trying to correct or clarify situations. Because the three of us “came at her” then you could view it at dogpile, but considering that it was simply an effort to get answers or discussion then not so much.
Personally I thought my petty little statement was going to be left at that. Instead Zoe wanted clarification on what I meant and I obliged.
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@ Sharina
Yeah, I didn’t think it was dogpiling for the same reason, but Zoe may certainly have a different opinion. To her maybe it did feel like she was being ganged up on. Quite possibly what is and is not dogpiling may be entirely subjective. I don’t know. It’s something I’m mulling over.
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I feel bad for “unwitting commenters like” Zoe “who think they’re participating in a low-key friendly discussion suddenly find themselves being berated, insulted, and gaslighted. Where is poor” Zoe? “Hasn’t commented in a” week “or so now.”
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Resw
If anyone was berated, insulted, and gaslighted in that discussion it was villagewriter. Zoe was using her “black father” to basically shut down villagewriter’s surprise of blacks in Arab countries etc. She waa defensive and declared an attack of her when simple questions were asked. She pulled a LOM through and through.
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@sharinalr
“She pulled a LOM through and through”
I don’t agree. Lord of mirkwood personally attacks when commenters say things he doesn’t like (and abagond defends his personal attacks), and I didn’t read where Zoe did the same. She didn’t call anyone a “f*ck” “Hitlerian”, “Hitler”, “Nazi propagandist” or any other disgusting name lord of mirkwood routinely uses.
“Zoe was using her “black father” to basically shut down villagewriter’s surprise of blacks in Arab countries etc. ”
That’s one way of looking at it, but I tend to agree with Zoe Jordan, nomad, etc. that she was “run off” by Afrofem, et al.
I don’t think they were overly hostile, but Afrofem did mischaracterise her statements about her father, and then try to question her based on those mischaracterisations. And then others jumped on the same thing.
So I can see why that bothered Zoe so much, because it’s something that routinely happens on this blog.
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Resw,
“Lord of mirkwood personally attacks when commenters say things he doesn’t like”— Fully agree, but he also uses the “I’m Irish” to dismiss or shut down any discussion of black hardships etc. Which is equivalent to what Zoe did.
“that she was “run off” by Afrofem, et al.”—You could view it that way, but I tend to take a page from nomand in “no one can make you do anything.” Just as she chose to further those arguments even after she claimed to not disagree with Afrofem. Her whole basis was simply Afrofem asked her about her father so she stated her thoughts. Not that what she quoted was untrue or misleading.
I will have to double check the quotes but of what she described of her father he was very dark with European features. Not the “black” she tried to use the tell villagewriter that there are black people in the Arab world.
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I’m not commenting on the specific conversation because I wasn’t following that thread but there are “Sub-Saharan” Africans who have supposed European facial features. This was one of the things the Belgians used to distinguish Hutus and Tutsis in Rwanda. The current president of Rwanda, Paul Kagame is Tutsi.
https://www.google.com/search?q=paul+kagame&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjR9O-Hjr_UAhUJNj4KHQUHDfsQ_AUICygC&biw=1680&bih=890#imgrc=_
There is no evidence they aren’t indigenous “Sub-Saharan” Africans contrary to the speculation of the Belgian colonists. Heck, there are black people with blue eyes in Africa and black albinos with red hair and fair freckled skin. Due to geography East Africans have had to deal with encroachment by Arabian Mohammedans and being called “abed” [slaves] while West Africans had to deal with Christian Western Europeans and get called N’s. Most Africans in the “New World” are descended from West Africans.
Anyway, the only thing I’ll say on the claim that the blog has changed is that it started to seem as if LoM took it over (at least part time). It has started to feel very “white liberal” in tone. That is, full “SJW” as King suggested, complete with support for the latest cause “Islamophobia” [is the Ramadan banner a first] while we haven’t solved “Negrophobia” either here or among the Arabian originators of Islam and certainly not the “Kaffirophobia” of groups like ISIS that continues to fuel terrorist attacks [like the bombing of Christian Coptic churches in Egypt during Easter or the slaughter of a busload of Copts at Ramadan or the Arianna Grande concert suicide bombing or the ISIS-linked separatists fighting in Southern Phillipines or Nigeria].
One likely reason for the acceleration of the transformation is abagond’s very personal hatred of the current President which has caused him to join any team that’s most vociferously opposed to him for their own reasons. I suspect that if Trump came out and said “Racism is bad” abagond might become completely paralyzed being unable to reconcile Trump’s lying with abagond’s personal convictions. Yes I’m being facetious but it has become quite predictable. I think one can be justifiably suspicious of Trump without developing tunnel vision or a one-track mind. Besides, even if you got rid of Trump you’d still have a very Chrstian and very establishment Republican president. He might not talk about grabbing cats but could be a more potent threat to do things that Trump wouldn’t necessarily do.
“Enemy of my enemy is my friend” is a bit too simplistic for me because there is significant corruption in Left-side politics that is only becoming more evident with time. We cannot afford for our fate to be tied to theirs. IMO, Black people should always be striving to organize and depend on ourselves. Hardly anyone will die for us if push comes to shove, they’ll be hoping our deaths will save them. As they say, the black guy always dies in the movies.
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the difference between zoe and me. i came here ready to fight. i thought it was a pro-obama blog. turned out not to be so but i thought i was charging into the breach. so i was a bit more prepared.
i came here to chew bubble gum and kick obamas ass. and im all out of bubble gum.
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@Origin
“there are “Sub-Saharan” Africans who have supposed European facial features.”–Fully agree, but she was very clear that her father was black Arab or black Lebanese who was labeled Syrian on U.S. paperwork. She herself did not see her father as black in Sub-Saharan terms.
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@Nomad
“i came here ready to fight.”–Fair enough, but you still can’t expect people not to challenge you on something at some point. It is just wishful thinking.
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@sharinalr
“Fully agree, but he also uses the “I’m Irish” to dismiss or shut down any discussion of black hardships etc. Which is equivalent to what Zoe did.”
I didn’t notice that, but I can see your point of view.
“You could view it that way, but I tend to take a page from nomand in “no one can make you do anything.””
I agree it’s her choice, and she chose to leave. My only complaint is why she had to make that choice in the first place.
“I will have to double check the quotes but of what she described of her father he was very dark with European features.”
And that’s where I think there was a big misunderstanding.
I never read where she described her father as either “dark” or “with European features”. So I can see why she was upset that Afrofem et al made a fuss about something she never said.
Maybe she implied it–I don’t know–but it’s faulty to build an argument based on what one believes someone else implied–which happens too often here.
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^Talk about hypocrisy. He was literally participating in dogpiling on the open thread 2 days ago, and now he’s crying about being the victim.
And did anyone call him “Adolf Hilter” “Hitlerian”, “Nazi”, “Nazi propagandist” “f*ck” etc, like he does “unprovoked”, or spread abagond’s lie that they’re “Kremlin-paid” simply for expressing their views or divulging facts? No.
@lord of mirkwood
“You’re not some innocent victim of harassment here. Indeed, to me, it seems like you…were orchestrating such a campaign of intimidation. That’s certainly how it looked to me after” nomad, origin, taotesan, sharinalr, Fan… blakksage, myself, and MANY “others were on the receiving end of the same attacks from…you for month after month after month.”
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@ Origin
Re Islamophobia:
This post is from back in 2011:
Abagond isn’t the author but he reposted it, and the subsequent thread comments of course are original to this blog.
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@ Sharina
“In a google search I found quite a few blog owners in this imaginary competition with Abagond. From claiming to debunk his post to claiming how their blog is better”
Just curious — do you remember what words you searched to find these?
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@ An Scríbhneoir Gael-Mheiriceánach
No, no, no, no, no! You are not to mention that person. I deleted your comment. And, no, I am not going to edit it.
This is the second time you have done that in a matter of days. Your comments are to be automatically moderated till further notice. Attempts to evade moderation will lead to instant banning.
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Solitaire,
I will check my history to see the exact words, but xprae is one that has several posts on his hatred of abagond and debunking his posts.
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@ Sharina
Thanks
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“Are Christians More Violent Than Muslims?” is from 2013.
“Is Islam Violent?” is from 2006.
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“No, no, no, no, no!”
This is exactly what I said to my cat this morning!
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sharinair
there you go again talking nonsense.
i never expected any such thing and i refuse to engage your non sequitur strawman arguments. talk to me when you have something of substance to say.
in the meantime, talk to gro jo.
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what a silly statement. why would a man expecting a fight expect people not to challenge him? WTF are you talking about. you are still stuck on stupid.
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@ nomad
I took Sharina’s comment about expecting challenges to be a reference to Zoe, not you.
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See, even when you sucker-punch me, I still devote my thoughts to helping you!
White Saviour writ large! Thank ya sah!
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@Solitaire
You are correct it was in reference to Zoe.
@Nomad
Thanks again for proving who is really stuck on stupid. 😁
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@sharinair
whoever its for, its stupid. and you should try to be clearer in what you say. especially to me.
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“The comment by resw in which he mentioned her as part of getting under my skin”
So mentioning the names of commenters whom Lord of mirkwood has personally attacked, only in response to his comment listing the names of people who routinely personally attack me, is somehow “a stick to beat” him and “getting under [his] skin” but his persistent name calling on this thread is somehow not?
How hypocritical.
“I stick up for you and defend you”
Now we see how disingenuous those efforts were. Clearly he thought he was getting something in return, and we’ve already proven over and over again abagond’s clear preferential treatment of him and others.
Abagond’s Auto moderation of lord of mirkwood for his disobedience today doesn’t change the past.
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@Solitaire
Or more rather to say Zoe and people like her who can’t handle being challenged. Not really speaking on anyone in general.
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@nomad
“Harassing people not because they support Trump, which I never did, but because they refuse to support Hillary. How did that dogpliling work out for yall?”
+1000. They still do it to this day, as shown by lord of mirkwood’s reference to “Trump Non-Fan Club”, which is one of the many “unprovoked” personal attacks initiated by abagond against people who did not support his candidate.
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nomad
Anything you don’t like becomes stupid. It is common sense. People will challenged your ideas and thoughts and it is expected. You do it to abagond quite regularly. What I said was clear. You don’t always mean YOU and following the flow of the conversation you should have got that. But whatever…
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@ Sharina
“Or more rather to say Zoe and people like her who can’t handle being challenged. Not really speaking on anyone in general.”
Yeah, that’s how I read it. The generic “you” with a specific reference to people like Zoe who don’t come prepared for a fight or even a challenge.
But I can also see how Nomad misread it.
I don’t want to take sides on this. I like both you and Nomad and only said what I did in the hope of clearing up a misunderstanding rather than making things worse.
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Solitaire
No worries. I’m not expecting you to take sides. A neutral stance can give a fresh perspective. I am thankful you did take the time to claifiy it.
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“the difference between zoe and me. i came here ready to fight. i thought it was a pro-obama blog. turned out not to be so but i thought i was charging into the breach. so i was a bit more prepared.
i came here to chew bubble gum and kick obamas ass. and im all out of bubble gum.”
You’re also out of ideas. Most of the stuff you write is nonsense. How’s Trump working out for you? No, I’m no Obama fan, but I hate your bs even more.
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@Solitaire
“But I can also see how Nomad misread it.”—-I can’t, because it was already established that he takes no bs from anyone and that he was prepared for a challenge. So it makes no sense for him to jump to the conclusion that it was about him. He has found himself so ready for a fight that he falsely attributes anything to a confrontation. There is no excuse for that.
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Dog piling from the Urban dictionary:
“A disagreement on an Internet message board wherein one person says something wrong or offensive, and a large number of people comment in response to tell the person how wrong and/or horrible they are, and continue to disparage the original commenter beyond any reasonable time limit.”
I think if two or three people are challenging someone in regards to an idea or statement that’s not dog piling in a way that shuts down discussion nor necessarily disparages the commenter.
On the other hand five or more commentors doesn’t allow the person questioned time to respond and is intimidating. That interrupts free speech and disrespects the commenter. I would consider that illiberal.
I also stated that dog piling was ok within this blog to expel or shut down an obnoxious racist or commenter. I still hold to that.
Abagond values free speech and allows personal attacks even against himself. That can create a toxic atmosphere at times and that makes some commentors uncomfortable to participate. That is part of what has been happening lately.
Mutual respect is how different sorts of people coexist peacefully.
I think attacking someone’s charter because you disagree with their philosophy or ideas is illiberal.
I think attacking someone’s charter because they insulted and disrespected you is legitimate self defense. This kind of self defense extends to others whose characters have also been maligned against.
I have made personal attacks against resw because of the disrespect resw has shown towards Abagond. The constant negativity resw brings to the blog affects the character of the blog and those who read it. Any other blog owner would have banned resw along time ago for being such a downer.
An anology was once brought up on this blog describing the discussions here as the kind that would happen around Abagonds dinner table. In the real world If someone showed up and disrespected the host others would object and escort that person to the door. I see it not much different here.
For whatever reasons resw wants to sow discontent and disrupt the dinner at Abagonds table.
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@gro jo
look who’s talkin.you are much bs. i told you. glass house livers should not throw stones.
another stupid non sequitur. whats that got to do with anything? contrary to you sjw’s myth, i was never a supporter of Trump. so suck it.
GOOD! I’d be worried if you did like what I wrote. I’d be thinking ‘where did I go wrong?
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@sharinair
then obviously clarification was needed. excuse me if im not completely convinced. because of our history, there is doubt.
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@sharinair
Who on this forum needs an excuse? People who have attacked me in the past need to be clear (careful) in what they say to me afterwards. Add some kind of language that says ‘i come in peace’.
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@resw
“Harassing people not because they support Trump, which I never did, but because they refuse to support Hillary. How did that dogpliling work out for yall?”
The comment you referenced shows in moderation on my screen, so i assume others can no longer see it. Rather odd.
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“Harassing people not because they support Trump, which I never did, but because they refuse to support Hillary. How did that dogpliling work out for yall?”
Could you post an example of that ?
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example already given by resw. trump non fan club designation repeated at various places. surely you didnt miss the ‘dancing negroes’ episode. not enough people involved to call it dogpiling? fine. call it a personal attack upon me by a couple of people. whatever. you get the point.
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@nomad
“People who have attacked me in the past need to be clear (careful) in what they say to me afterwards.”—Excuse me, but if you count disagreeing on one thread as history then you have selective memory. I agreed with a lot of your posts and we had cordial conversations prior to that election post. We disagreed on there and you became volatile and I returned it. You weren’t attacked. You attacked first and you got exactly what you gave. Disagreeing with you does not mean someone is attacking you.
Secondly, I disagreed with Fan, Resw, and Origin on that same post. It got ugly but adults tend to move on. It makes no sense for me to be thread to thread to thread arguing over something several months ago.
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I read Agabond most days. I find myself often learning stuff I didn’t know, or considering a perspective I had not previously considered, or otherwise expanding my consciousness in some way. This I consider to be a worthy use of time, and I admire Agabond for his disciplined exercises in stretching his own consciousness.
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the prob w this is obviously the profanity, so im just going to repost it without
Do you people remember when y’all tried to drive me away with that Jim Crow bs? Did that plan work? Just because I wouldn’t bow down to your lesser evil Clintonism? That what was so bizarre about it. Harassing people not because they support Trump, which I never did, but because they refuse to support Hillary. How did that dogpliling work out for yall?
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sharinalr
uh huh. if it makes no sense, dont do it.
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“another stupid non sequitur. whats that got to do with anything? contrary to you sjw’s myth, i was never a supporter of Trump. so suck it.”
It’s gratifying to see that I’ve taught you the correct spelling of non sequitur. Quit lyin (see, I can drop my gs too!) about being a Trump (storm)trooper.
“look who’s talkin.you are much bs. i told you. glass house livers should not throw stones.”
How do you know that my “liver” is made of glass? Have the aliens finally taken you to the 4th Dimension where you can see inside people’s body?
“GOOD! I’d be worried if you did like what I wrote. I’d be thinking ‘where did I go wrong?”
I won’t keep you in suspense, you went wrong the day your mom dropped you on your head. Next time I’m lurking, don’t drag me in your stupid fights with other commenters: “…in the meantime, talk to gro jo.”
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nomad
” it makes no sense, dont do it.”—I haven’t, but you have thus your statement “because of our history, there is doubt” and ”
People who have attacked me in the past need to be clear (careful) in what they say to me afterwards”. So it is your issue not mine.
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@nomad
“example already given by resw. trump non fan club designation repeated at various places. surely you didnt miss the ‘dancing negroes’ episode.”
His feigning ignorance act is too funny.
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@”Dog piling from the Urban dictionary:”
That’s one interesting definition, with which I disagree.
Oxford:
“(of a number of people) join in directing critical or abusive comments at another person or group.”
And yes, lots of examples been provided, including with abagond as the ring leader. Most of such incidents coincidentally occurred after abagond’s false statements were exposed.
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@”I have made personal attacks against resw because of the disrespect resw has shown towards Abagond.”
So you are admittedly part of the problem of initiating and participating in dogpiling.
And Abagond was the first to “disrespect” me and others, not the other way around, as proven. And exposing his lies and correcting him as I do so often are in no way “disrespect”. If you people don’t like it, then don’t lie and post false statements online.
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@sharinair
Not an issue. A disposition. Its because of our past history that I react to your statement the way I did. You say I misinterpreted. I’m not willing to take your word for that. The only way to avoid such a situation is to be very clear to me who you are referring to. Even if you have to state explicitly that you are using the generic ‘you’. Because that is certainly not the way I read it.
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@gro jo
go cry about it.
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gro jo
youre the one who came outa the blue and said this, mr, ‘lurker’
surely you had to expect that id respond
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Too dumb to come up with something original, Why am I not surprised?
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nomad
“A disposition.”—Which still makes it an issue for you not matter which word you choose to use.
“The only way to avoid such a situation is to be very clear to me who you are referring to.”—No, the only way to avoid it is for you to change, because you have hang UpS from a past confrontation. Regardless I will continue to speak as I will and I gather you will coninue to act as you will. I or some other commenter will just correct your misunderstandings.
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No*
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sharinair
you got that right.
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there is nothing original. SURPRISE!!!
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@michaeljonbarker
“Harassing people not because they support Trump, which I never did, but because they refuse to support Hillary. How did that dogpliling work out for yall?”
The harassing is well documented. The reason I say the motive for it was my and others refusal to support Hillary and not support of Trump, as people like gro jo still allege; and as the moniker Trump non fan club seems to imply is this.
I never knew what was meant by that derogation. I assume it meant we were closet Trump supporters. But no! It couldnt be our supposed support of Trump that made people so angry. It seemed it was being critical of Hillary that offended them. This was underscored when Satanforce showed up and said he liked Trump because of his high energy. And nobody attacked him. That’s how I knew the motivation was not imagined support for Trump but refusal to bow down to lesser evil Clintonism. And my contempt for Hillary.
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@ nomad
“Satanforce showed up and said he liked Trump because of his high energy. And nobody attacked him.”
Satanforce makes extensive use of sophisticated humor and satire. Playing the phony “Devils Advocate” is one of his favorite ploys. That is why no one attacked him.
I learned about that the hard way by embarrassing myself in the past responding to his outrageous statements. Linda and Herneith had to set me straight.
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“The reason I say the motive for it was my and others refusal to support Hillary and not support of Trump, as people like gro jo still allege; and as the moniker Trump non fan club seems to imply is this.”
TRUMP (STORM)TROOPER.
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@ Afrofem
I also assumed that “high energy” comment was a joke.
@ Nomad
There have been hard feelings on all sides about the election arguments. I’m trying my best to put all that behind me. Can’t speak for anyone else but I for one never wanted to drive you away from this forum even when we most disagreed.
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Afrofem
satanforce was asked about it and said he was serious. but its only a supporting argument to my claim that people here were upset with my contempt for hillary, not my imagined support for trump. so whatever he meant is fine.
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I dont like being maligned.
case in point, this little myth that abagond created lives on.
and thats why I Talk about it. well one reason, anyway.
GRO JO
“The reason I say the motive for it was my and others refusal to support Hillary and not support of Trump, as people like gro jo still allege; and as the moniker Trump non fan club seems to imply is this.”
TRUMP (STORM)TROOPER.
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@ sharina
Same here.
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King said:
Me too, and I wrote about it as far back as 2008:
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In my opinion, the worst thing about this blog are the trolls, people like Resw. I want to maintain free speech for both commenters and myself, so I cannot simply play benevolent dictator and ban them arbitrarily. Or try to avoid being trolled by avoiding controversial statements or topics. And yet trolls do seem to cow at least some people into silence. There does not seem to be a silver bullet.
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@ jefe
What are examples of poorer quality posts caused by this?
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The Trump Era trolls are to be expected. What is more mysterious is what took place about July and August of 2015. Kiwi became less friendly, or something, while the Asian Girl Fan Club all left almost at the same time. I am not sure what went on there.
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@ Scribh
People like Randy, Da Jokah and Biff. They would downplay racism yet most of them seemed to be White men married to Asian women.
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Randy, Da Jokah and Biff I forgot about those deplorable fecal stains. Good riddance to garbage.
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I found them to be quite entertaining in their obtuseness! A cunning array of stunts!
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“The Trump Era trolls”
Good one. No longer Trump non fan club, since it seems clear that support of Trump is not the issue of contention. Just being in dissent with blog orthodoxy in ‘Trump era’ is what qualifies as trolling. Aside from resw, (who by the way I dont see as a troll) who would these Trump era trolls be?
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@nomad
“Good one. No longer Trump non fan club, since it seems clear that support of Trump is not the issue of contention.”
+1000. .
“Aside from resw, (who by the way I dont see as a troll)”
Neither does abagond. It’s just one of his many ways of showing “disrespect” for people with whom he disagrees and people who expose his lies and propaganda.
I’ve been commenting on this blog since at least 2011(?) and he only started calling me a troll in 2016. So it’s just another example of abagond’s dishonesty and it contradicts the ignorant opinion that he “values free speech”.
He’s demonstrated just how intolerant he is.
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@ Herneith
“A cunning array of stunts!”
I see what you did there 😉
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@”satanforce”
…also left because of abagond’s shenanigans:
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@ resw
As I have stated elsewhere, you used to be a good commenter, and still make good comments from time to time, but lately you mainly just troll.
As to satanforce, that was my mistake for letting you shame me into an overly strict and idiotic application of the comment policy, which is meant to guard against trolls, not become an auto-immune disease driving off genuine commenters.
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interesting, resw
@abagond
somehow this reminds me of hillary blaming others for her lost election.
whats the second worst thing?
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@”you used to be a good commenter, and still make good comments from time to time, but lately you mainly just troll”
In other words, it’s not trolling when he agrees with the comments or they don’t expose his lies and propaganda. Shows him for the intolerant person he clearly is.
” that was my mistake for letting you shame me into an overly strict and idiotic application of the comment policy”
Yes, abagond, supposedly a grown man is actually blaming someone else for his own actions that caused satanforce and many other commenters to leave–and rightfully so.
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@ resw
If only that was what you were doing.
I think an examination of your comments over time would clearly show that the amount of name calling you do has gone up sharply over the past 6 to 12 months.
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@ resw
Your mission here seems to be the same as for Russian trolls:
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@ resw
So why are you still here?
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@”I think an examination of your comments over time would clearly show that the amount of name calling you do has gone up sharply over the past 6 to 12 months.”
As proven on the open thread, any name-calling I’ve done has been completely in response to the name-calling by both abagond and his team.
Abagond, being the dishonest person he’s proven to be, continues reiterating this line to mislead people into thinking I’m the aggressor even though he knows that he and his team are on record being the initiators of personal attacks (against not just me but other commenters).
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@”Your mission here seems to be the same as for Russian trolls:”
And it’s good to see abagond supporting my claims with another personal attack, which is dangerous slander that puts me at risk.
He knows I’m not a “Russian troll” but still touts this dangerous slander, all because I have exposed the anti-Russian propaganda that he’s been touting for 6 months now.
He should be ashamed of himself for behaving this way.
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@ resw
Please give examples of my anti-Russian propaganda.
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“Please give examples of my anti-Russian propaganda.”
@nomad
LOL. Is abagond really serious? I guess he’s conveniently forgotten all he’s written over the past 6 months.
@abagond
That statement “comes off as trolling” so I’m going to “ignore your ass”, in your words.
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@ resw
Yet another statement, this one about anti-Russian propaganda, you are unwilling or unable to back up…
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Abagond, knows I’ve pointed out his anti-Russian propaganda on multiple occasions. While I should continue to “ignore [his] ass” for trolling me, why don’t we just look at this comment he just made:
As well as many others like it:
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2017/02/13/breitbart-news-diet/#comment-365261 (in response to a comment I made showing his NYT’s blatant anti-Russian propaganda)
And don’t forget his lies about Russia and RT. Here’s one of several examples:
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2016/12/07/rationalwiki-media-guide/#comment-360740 (which he repeated numerous times)
As he knows, there’s plenty more where that came from.
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@ resw
Those are your examples? Implying that you are a Russian troll and being wrong about the ownership of RT (a mistake I admitted to and corrected)? This is what your great mission of exposing my “lies and propaganda” have been all about? Please. I need better examples than that.
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I don’t know why abagond is playing this dishonest game.
Please note, he told us long ago, “I am biased against Putin’s Russia”:
Now he wants to pretend he’s been balanced. And he knows full well there are plenty more examples of his propaganda. Such as when he said the “Trump dossier” “is unlikely to be a hoax” without bothering to support his claim:
And other lies about Russia and RT:
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@abagond
i think those are good examples. you can find them on almost every russia related comment thread. you make unfounded statements about russia and accuse those who refute them of being russian trolls. i call that russophobia.
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@ resw
Asking you to back up your claims is a “dishonest game”? Oh really? You are so full of it.
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@ resw
I did not mention Putin once, either in that post or on that thread.
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@ resw
I did bother to support it:
Further, I never pushed the dossier as established fact. Because it is not. It is what it is: raw intelligence.
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”
on Mon 19 Jun 2017 at 03:09:57
abagond
@ sharina
Same here.
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on Mon 19 Jun 2017 at 03:12:28
abagond
King said:
Me too, and I wrote about it as far back as 2008:
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2008/08/08/all-blacks-are-racist/”
Irrelevant. You bent over backwards to placate the Kiwi-King party on the Peter Liang post: ” on Sat 20 Feb 2016 at 21:35:53
abagond
Frank Wu from vanishingpoint’s link:
His commanding officer knew of the shooting because a neighbour had called 911, but he did not know that the shooter was Liang. He had been trying to reach Liang and Landau, knowing that they were nearby.
Four minutes have now passed. Unlike Gurley’s girlfriend, they are trained in CPR. They go to him – and walk round him to go to the fourth floor.”
You spoiled Kiwi by automatically coming to his defense and failed to do so in this instance. You got your “Nigg*r wake up call” when they turned their backs on you for this momentary lapse. All your good works, such as defending Kiwi on the Mao thread, were for nought.
I hate to make common cause with the likes of resw, a rat fink, and nomad the Trump (Storm)Trooper, but they do have a point about your anti-Russian propaganda.
Your snide little remark about no black faces on RT is evidence for their claims. I recall Colin Powell’s black face telling the world a pack of lies to facilitate US aggression against Iraq.
RT should be evaluated on how close to the truth their claims come, not on absence of black faces or the, in your opinion, shrillness of their hosts. Troll, in your vocabulary, is anybody who’s writing something you don’t like. Eurocentrism is a label you bandy about to shut up people you don’t like. Given your love of the Bible and Ancient Greek culture, you come off as hypocritical. Why do I stay? You are erudite even when wrong, so I stand a chance to learn something I didn’t already know from you.
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@ resw
In all the time I have watched RT, I saw only two Black employees. Not a lie. It is not my fault RT has so few.
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@abagond
that was about the only true criticism you made. the main criticism you made, that it is propaganda you have yet to prove. (changing the definition of propaganda is not a valid form of proof).
am i dreaming or did gro jo actually agree with me. wait a minute. got to check for flying pigs…
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@nomad
“i think those are good examples. you can find them on almost every russia related comment thread. you make unfounded statements about russia and accuse those who refute them of being russian trolls. i call that russophobia.”
+1000. Abagond agrees, but he’s a troll. “You are never going to “persuade” him – especially since he might already secretly agree with you. “
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@abagond
“Asking you to back up your claims is a “dishonest game”? Oh really? You are so full of it.”
No that’s not, but asking for something when you already know where to find it is indeed “playing a dishonest game”. Not to mention we’ve been down this road before yet today you suddenly need to find evidence you’ve already been given.
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@ gro jo
This is a personal blog. I am allowed to have opinions about RT. I am even allowed to perceive shrillness or the lack of Black faces. That hardly counts as “anti-Russian propaganda”! The whole Ukraine crisis unfolded and I did not do a single post on it. I still have not done one on Putin. Not exactly a hotbed of anti-Russian propaganda.
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@abagond
“I did not mention Putin once, either in that post or on that thread.”
Sorry, that was your lord of mirkwood. You two sound so much alike these days, I confused you. My sincerest apologies!
But it doesn’t negate the other examples that were given.
@”In all the time I have watched RT, I saw only two Black employees. Not a lie.”
Well no one questioned that abagond “saw only two Black employees”, a statement which actually contradicts his earlier statement.
The propaganda he spread was the idea that RT is somehow different in that it had no black employees until Ashlee Banks (and all the mainstream media are “lily white” not just RT):
Nomad proved you wrong because Harrison had long been on RT.
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More specifically, the other comment was “Wow, it looks like RT America finally hired a Black person” https://abagond.wordpress.com/2017/03/02/russiagate/#comment-368168
A statement based on a false premise since it was proven that there were at least two other black on-air talent
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@”I did bother to support it”
So telling us a “well regarded” private intelligence official said it means it’s “unlikely to be a hoax”.
Despite the fact that a much higher official in the intelligence community said this about the dossier:
“Without respect to the veracity of the contents of the dossier, that’s why it was not included as part of our report because much of it could not be corroborated.”
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” on Mon 19 Jun 2017 at 17:55:08
abagond
@ gro jo
This is a personal blog. I am allowed to have opinions about RT. I am even allowed to perceive shrillness or the lack of Black faces.”
I don’t challenge your right to make such observations, just their relevance to the veracity of RT. You didn’t find anything damning so you criticized their style. RT is no better or worse than NYT and the rest of the media.
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well, it is better, since its not part of the deep state, but i get the point.
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Which deep state, the US or Russian one? It is most certainly part of the latter and can be expected to tell lies on its behalf just like its Yankee counterparts. To think otherwise is naive.
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gro jo
yeah. tell me about the russian deep state.
at any rate the deep state that matters is the one that has you hypnotized. if it takes a counter deep state to break the spell, so be it.
but be sure to give links to articles on russian deep state . i’d like to see them. or is that just something you made up?
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Yeah. What the hell was Putin before he got into politics? A KGB man, you don’t get any deeper state than that, so spare me your nonsense. You’re free to worship their deep state all you want and Abagond can do the same for the US variant. I believe that if you read between the lies they all tell, you might get something like the truth. You might enjoy this website: http://www.globalresearch.ca/
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@ gro jo
I did a post on RT. I criticized more than just their style.
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A lot has happened since my last comment. Very unfortunate. Kiwi was an interesting commenter, but I noticed he became very defensive on the Peter Liang thread. I truly believe that ALL races or ethnic groups are naturally sensitive to issues pertaining to their own race and at the end of the day people stick with their own.
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gro jo
cant provide sources huh? i didnt think so. what you said was ridiculous anyway. what other deep state would i be talking about but the one that controls america and has a strangle hold on the rest of the world? the one that has you and the rest of america brainwashed and locked into perpetual war? thats the one im talking about, as if you didnt know. i dont know why you want to play these time wasting diversionary games.
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abagond
not much more. and the criticisms you did make were not valid. as gro jo said, you couldnt find anything so you essentially redefined propaganda and accused them of that. you also accused them of racism which i found preposterous.
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gro jo
So a person who attacks the deep state worships it?
Stop it, man. Your distorted reasoning is cracking me up! I cant… I cant… control it! BWWWWAAAHAHAHAHAAAAA….
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whatever the russian deep state is influencing rt to do it is not advocating and cheerleading war, like our msm does. and that puts them miles above msm. by that measurement alone they are better.
i know that sounds like advocating for rt and support for russian deep state and worship of putin to you. but its just a simple statement of fact. our msm is scum. rt is much better.
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@nomad
“not much more. and the criticisms you did make were not valid. ”
+1000
And still has not provided a single example of the “propaganda” he claims RT disseminates. All he’s done is provide the opinion of someone else who’s just as biased as he.
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“nomad
gro jo
cant provide sources huh? i didnt think so. what you said was ridiculous anyway. what other deep state would i be talking about but the one that controls america and has a strangle hold on the rest of the world? the one that has you and the rest of america brainwashed and locked into perpetual war? thats the one im talking about, as if you didnt know. i dont know why you want to play these time wasting diversionary games.”
nomad, I like you, you write the funniest sh8 here. You mean to tell me that you didn’t know that Putin was a spy? Russia, like all independent states, has a deep state. Some British wit, Lord Palmerston (English Statesman, 1784-1865) stated it clearly enough when he wrote: “Nations have no permanent friends or allies, they only have permanent interests.”
Don’t be too shocked if you find Putin and the Kremlin Krew (yeah, I know it should be “crew”, I couldn’t help it) advocating war when it’s in their interest.
Abagond wrote: “I did a post on RT. I criticized more than just their style.” Right. Did you find anything like Judith Miller’s lies in NYT? If you did, you kept it to yourself. Are you without sins? You’ve written stuff that you failed to backup and even plagiarized a lousy blog post on Japanese Anime!
” on Sat 20 Aug 2016 at 21:37:49
gro jo
Abagond, when and how did Whites get/take steel from Africa? I know that the Haya people made steel centuries before Whites but I don’t know about Whites “getting” or “taking” that knowledge from them.”
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gro jo
i must be doing something wrong
another strawman diversion that im supposed to waste ink denying. whatever gave you that idea?
you make the categorical error, like abagond, of equating putin with rt. we’ve already established that rt operates independent of putin. in addition i have seen no warmongering on putins part. only america and its propaganda wing, msm.
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one thing about putin, tho. he means what he says. in case u hadnt noticed weve just moved a step closer to direct confrontation w russia. putin said american planes are now targets after the dang fools shot down a Syrian warplane.
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“one thing about putin, tho. he means what he says. in case u hadnt noticed weve just moved a step closer to direct confrontation w russia. putin said american planes are now targets after the dang fools shot down a Syrian warplane.”
How does that contradict what I wrote? “Don’t be too shocked if you find Putin and the Kremlin Krew (yeah, I know it should be “crew”, I couldn’t help it) advocating war when it’s in their interest.”
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who says it contradicts what u wrote? or was intended to? it hadnt been mentioned and i did because it was germane to the discussion. again a pointless contention.
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“who says it contradicts what u wrote? or was intended to? it hadnt been mentioned and i did because it was germane to the discussion…”
Ok then.
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time for another episode of hillary was leading us to ww3.
i know, trump pretended he didnt want war with russia, but apparently he lied (or was made an offer he couldnt refuse).
true after a brief pause has apparently led us to war with russia. with hillary there would have been no pause. she was beating the drum of war with russia during her presidential campaign. hillary would have gotten us here quicker.
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“time for another episode of hillary was leading us to ww3.” A/k/a, slouching toward Armageddon with Trump.
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@ Abagond
Do you feel comfortable doing a post that discusses your opinion on the statements made by Kiwi, King, Jefe and Mary Burrell at this point in time?
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I am not worthy of a post. And I will ask please don’t do a post on statements that I make. I always thought this was a safe place for me to vent and learn from the post Abagond post and read other commentators post.
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@ Gro Jo: I do appreciate you introducing me to Charles W. Chestnut I am reading on of his short stories from an anthology of black writers. And learning about Patricia Bath and Korla Pandit.
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I’m a lurker, but every blue moon I comment. I missed the days when a variety of different commenters on a post would come through and leave interesting comments on the post and share a nugget of info. It seems ever since the election the only people these days that make multiple comment to the tune of almost spam posting is commenters like, resw or nomad. Now I’m not even trying to JUST point a finger at them, but that’s how it looks when I read through the comments, those two.
It almost makes me not even want to read the comments because if it’s a hot topic such as a trump post and anything related to the Russia thing, or just a post that will have more than 50 something comments…then guess who’s gonna be up and down the comments making posts back to back?
Maybe it looks like spam postings because it’ll be days before another comment will come by? I don’t know but to barely see different commenters rather new or not, and seeing the same, exact, ones that seem like they’re more here to leave angry rat pellets across the forum arguing about who’s a propagandist and who isn’t just turns me off from A. Wanting to fully comment, cause what else is there for them to talk about besides feeling like people are attacking them on any disagreement regarding 45. or B. Again, wanting to even read the comments at all. Maybe that’s what I’ll start doing, read the post and exit even though I’ll lose out on good information by people with much more life experience than me. I’ve been reading this blog since maybe ’06 or ’08 when I was in high school.
I’ve seen commenters come and go, like bulanik, Sam, Mira who drops in now and again it looked like. Brothawolf who I know made a few comms upthread, peanut, Linda, ~Deb comments now and then, matari, the cynic (or the cynic one?), Leigh, Legion, Cornelia,, Septula(?)etc,etc…and that’s just a few of the folks I remember over the years who either don’t comment anymore or come and do so now and again. I know Bulanik left because of B.R I think, but I missed 2014-2015 on here so of course there has been newer commenters (LOM) and trolls, but the funny thing about the racist white trolls is that (unless they have been up in here more frequently than I’d know, I have spotty internet, AND besides LOM, cause, yeah dude…you pretty racist)
I haven’t seen them as much, I feel like they do drive bys or maybe stay and comment for a few days or and then that’s it.
Allen shaw comes to mind but….would he be a black white racist troll— if he even is black?
Also, what ever happened to Fan…?
The folks that I’m more familiar with and that I recognize that does still comment, whether frequently or not so, so much is: Mary Burrell, Afrofem, sharina, mjb, village, v8driver, solitaire, mbeti(tho he doesn’t look to comment too often anymore, but I remb him) herneith, santanforce up until whatever post, and one other commenter I’m drawing a blank on. (Origin I think? Is Legion Origin?)
It seems more like certain folks on this or any comment thread on your blog site, are here to just be sorely contrarian or make as many comments as they can. That’s what it looks like to me at least.
All I feel like you have left of commenters who seem to at least comment in a manner that looks to be here to actually offer info and not “I’m here to be a smartbutt, attack the blog owner, and be a hit dog.” Not saying folks can’t disagree with Abagond or other commenters, it just seems like the minute anyone brings up 45, a few or a couple get in their feelings.
Imma go back to lurking, but I might just drop reading comments altogether because they are losing the value I feel like they once had. I learned a lot when people were educating trolls on here years back, it actually helped me ~along with other blog sites when you still had a blog roll ~develop my conscience on race issues as I grew up reading the experiences older folks had had in life with encountering racism and prejudices. Whether here or in European countries, and other countries, were/are very interesting and eye opening to read. It made me keep up and on with the crap happening to not just poc, but Black people by white people and white supremacy.
I’ve learned a lot and appreciate this blog and how it’s helped me over the years, it’s just a shame the type of nanny nanny boo booing that’s going on in certain threads by some commenters.
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“Now I’m not even trying to JUST point a finger at them”
then dont.
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you should probably stick to lurking
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Interesting how nomad and resw are urging people not to comment.
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Back up your claim. Where are the quotes of me “urging people not to comment” or is it just another of your lies?
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Thank you Mary. You might like this youtube video on Korla Pandit if you haven’t already seen it:
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfyaTI0nPTw)
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hahaha. you folks are too much. if shes going to attack me it would probably be better if she didnt. for me, anyway. i have enough a holes to deal with.
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@ Leia
Thanks for delurking and giving your observations.
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Please note that on a thread about how “Abagond used to be great but has devolved”, abagond has steered it to one about nomad and resw.
And I caught abagond’s first attempt to deflect from the legitimate criticism of many of his commenters on June 12:
And here he is doing it again.
This is another of many examples how abagond hates criticism and would do whatever it takes to deflect.
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@ Leia
Thank you for coming out of lurking to share your thoughts. I share some of your concerns.
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@ Mary Burrell
“I am not worthy of a post. And I will ask please don’t do a post on statements that I make. I always thought this was a safe place for me to vent and learn from the post Abagond post and read other commentators post.”
I apologize. I mentioned your name because of the addition of your comment in this post.
I have to disagree with one thing you wrote, “I am not worthy of a post”. To me, Mary, your opinions and comments are very worthy of reading. You add both wisdom and lightheartedness to the comments and have done so for years.
Thank you.
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@ Leia
Thank you for reminding me of why I started commenting here. I used to love the comments. They were so full of fascinating information and points of view.
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Those who made two or more comments on June 15th:
last week (June 15th 2017):
a year ago (June 15th 2016):
five years ago (June 15th 2012):
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@abagond
It does, however, show a dramatic drop in commenters and comments from 2016, which could be attributable to abagond’s obsession with the election and his/his team’s personal attacks against commenters with whom they disagreed.
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Posts that came out June 9th to 15th:
last week:
Loving v Virginia
“Abagond used to be great” but has devolved
Ramses II
a year ago:
Top mass murders in US history
Omar Mateen
The Association: Windy
Brock Turner
Chinese inventions
China: the last 13,000 years
five years ago:
none (because of issues at work)
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@Afrofem: You are too kind thank you.
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@resw
That was certainly my experience, It certainly seemed odd to me, but since i had not been a participant in discussions before that time, I have no idea what it was like before. I think it is significant that the ‘obsession with the election’ squeezed out black history month. Perhaps it was this shift in subject matter that caused the decline. Or maybe, since its coterminous with my participation, perhaps I’m the cause of the blog’s decline. Some lurkers obviously think theres some truth to that. But then, on the other hand. I dont care.
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5 years ago – didn’t realise that I had started posted that far back.
There used to be from what I could pick up, quite a cross section of people that used to post on here which over time has dwindled. I used to ‘lurk’ but read some of the exchanges in awe, amusement and fascination at the intellect that came through. I had no knowledge of how long these individuals had been posting on Abagond so I guess I thought that over time, it was probably common place on any forum that individuals posting might halt and that it might have been an organic transition to ‘another’, more popular blog perhaps. Not because the subjects on Abagond were any less interesting but that people can be fickle.
Abagond – I dont know if you are open to answering some questions that I am curious about but I will put them out there anyway…..
Abagond but what was your aim when starting this blog?
Did you intend to reach a worldwide audience or just keep it within the US?
What is the most amount of interactive participants you have ever had at one time (don’t know how easy it would be to answer that one)?
What is your most popular post?
Do YOU Abagond miss any commenters?
What is it about their commentary that you miss?
What do you out of it personally from doing this?
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The June 15th sample given above is too small to draw any firm conclusions, but it does suggest that while there has been no mass exodus, people are commenting less.
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^^ My guess is that a rise in the number of comments by nomad and resw, currently the two most active commenters, has gone hand in hand with a fall in the number of comments by others (not counting myself). But that just my guess, not a verified, empirical fact.
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and of course you yourself had nothing to do with it. how hillariesque. i repeat.
i am a man of strong opinion and sharp criticism. my goal is truth. cant handle that, thats your problem. i dont give a fig.
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@ Omnipresent
I started blogging to see what it is like. I thought this blog would only last a few months. I kept with it to practise my writing. It has taken on a life of its own.
I knew it would have worldwide reach even though I also knew my focus would be unwittingly US-centric.
Not sure how many commenters I have now or in the past. I have never quantified it.
My most popular post of all time so far is almost certainly “tribal nudity in National Geographic”. It has been streadily in the top ten ever since I posted it four years ago:
I do not like losing any commenter who is not a troll, but most of all I do not like losing non-US commenters, like Bulanik and taotesan. I want as many viewpoints as possible, not parrots of propaganda.
What I get out of it: the thrill of writing and have others respond, the different points of view, learning and finding out new things, having some kind of (hopefully) good effect on others. For the most part it comes down to being an ISFP and what Orwell said about writing:
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@ nomad
Huh? In the US, Black History Month is in February. That was three months AFTER the election. In February I did 0 posts on the election. None of my posts referred to the 2016 election or Hillary Clinton, not even in passing. If that counts as an obsession, then I was infinitely more obsessed with Black history, which got 4 posts.
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@ nomad
Say on. What did I do wrong or what should I do different in the future?
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Well in fact, we had nothing to do with Fan…, taotesan and satanforce leaving. They indicated abagond was the reason they left, not us.
And not to mention King. Yet abagond still blames others for his actions.
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ive already told you. but i dont mind doing it again,
correction. your obsession with trump squeezed black history. not entirely out but you were preoccupied with trump to the detriment of black history month.
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@ nomad
Thank you. You did say that but because you said “election” instead of “Trump” it made no sense. Thanks for the clarification.
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sure. like i say id be glad to repeat my criticisms. but i would like to hear from you. any other faults with this blog youd like to acknowledge? aside from the damage of pesky trolls like me.
as for your guess about resw and me, you know as well as i do that correlation is not necessarily cause.
heres another correlation. you changed from being an avid supporter of obama to being a critic. and allowed people like me to come on this forum and stomp him. maybe the people who left were obamites and couldnt stand the idea of their hero being attacked and for some reason were unable to defend him. so they left. just guessing. but thats another correlation that might not be causation.
‘for some reason were unable to defend him’
lol. kinda hard to defend the indefensible.
but they love him anyway.
because hes such an important symbol of black achievement..
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@nomad
“any other faults with this blog youd like to acknowledge? aside from the damage of pesky trolls like me.”
He’s clearly incapable of accepting responsibility for his actions. He’s blamed others multiple times on this very thread when Fan…, satanforce, taotesan, KIng, etc. attributed their reasons for leaving to abagond.
If he could take criticism, he’d have created a poll on this page asking his readers if they think “Abagond used to be great but has devolved”.
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Hello Abagond,
I guess you are still waiting for some feedback from me.
Tried to keep it short, but, hey.
I have felt less engaged bit by bit on this blog in the past two years. I still read some of the posts, but I don’t go through most of the comments. Before I could learn a lot from them. Now, not so much. As we are all very busy with many other things as well, I might as well not spend that much time on them.
Maybe address a couple of your points directly?
The emergence of the “Not exactly a fan of Trump, but …” contingent to counter your “Not exactly a fan of Hillary, but ….” stance that you took has turned into something toxic. I am not really sure how that might be fixed. Maybe you might make your posts less about Trump the man, and more about what is actually going on in Congress, the Supreme court, in the State assemblies, in the universities, in the streets, not to mention overseas (eg, the Paris Climate Change accord, Otto Warmbier & Dennis Rodman and North Korea, etc.).
Maybe a good post might be the SCOTUS ruling earlier this week about the Asian-American band who named themselves the Slants. This will likely overturn the ruling about the Washington Redskins use of its mascot. It could also open the possibilities of other legal trademarks that can no longer be challenged in court, eg, the “C00n” cats, Alligator Bait, maybe even the n-word could become fair game.
Or discuss what happens when Asians say or do racist things about white people:
(https://nextshark.com/june-chu-yale-dean-who-called-restaurant-customers-white-trash-on-yelp-has-left-her-position/)
I don’t dare speculate what happened to any individual, but we can take a look at what was going on at this blog at that time. That was when Black Lives Matter really took off on this blog in the aftermath of Dylan Roof and Sandra Bland and Samuel DeBose.
The issue of Black Lives Matter and the related individual cases that occurred are very relevant to this blog. It also became an issue in the presidential campaign. It has never stopped. So, how could we avoid it? Well, we shouldn’t avoid it and we didn’t. It rightfully became a talking point on this blog.
However, it seemed to spur other phenomena to blossom on this blog. These included viewpoints such as:
1. Blacks cannot be racist in a white supremacist society;
2. Only one pillar of white supremacy is relevant; the others can be ignored or viewed as irrelevant or inconsequential;
3. Racist attitudes and actions towards others, including towards other non-whites cannot be racist if performed by blacks (refer to #1);
4. People cannot be anti-racist or anti-white supremacy unless they make the issue of “Black Lives Matter” (or one of its related tropes) the central aim of attacking white supremacy.
5. To question whether points #1-#4 are reasonable or not mark one as anti-black, or at least an anti-black apologist.
etc.
etc.
etc.
OK, I can accept and support that this blog should be a safe place for people to vent, and issues like Black Lives Matter can stir a lot of emotion and people do need to express opinions and discuss solutions. Even I agree with that.
But if anyone questions any of those tenets, they will get attacked or even dogpiled. They may even get labeled as “anti-black”. Most people can stand their ground, or if they get weary, can just ignore it. Abagond just remained silent most of the time. Then there was a thundering silence after the Asian bashing from both whites and blacks at the 2016 Oscars after all that talk about Hollywood whitewashing and #Oscars so White.
But after a while, this kind of thinking started to creep into the main body of the posts themselves. A good example of that was the one on Aaron Mak. I dare not touch that post lest risk getting dogpiled for being an anti-black apologist. That was an example of a devolved post.
I am not sure if you really believe those kinds of posts, or if you are positing it as simply a point of view to be argued, but if you truly believe in stuff such as “Blacks are racist too” , “White supremacy is formed on multiple pillars” then show that in your posts. Show it in your comment policy. Be alert when the signs of mob rule or oppression start to surface. Otherwise you may seem disingenuous if you claim to believe something, but express yourself in ways that seem otherwise. Maybe you could do several dozen posts educating people how blacks still manage to be racist in a white supremacist society? I tried to bring one up re: “Y’all can go back”, but one can know in advance what the reaction will be – it is just like the police standing by silently while they let the vigilante mobs take control. Anyhow, there are other ways of educating people, even your regular readers, and it is better if it comes directly from you.
Admittedly, the Trump-related vitriol has become toxic. Maybe take a break from that? Discuss what is actually going on (eg, with the Affordable Care Act) It may be difficult to discuss black racism or pillars of white supremacy other than Black Lives Matter so soon after the Philando Castile murder verdict, but it might be a good exercise. Or maybe start tackling some posts on black – other nonwhite relations (which you have been deliberately avoiding). Of course you can do what you want.
Is this blog still a safe (or maybe an “attractive”) place for people to express their opinions?
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Looking at the overall numbers, commenting is down since last year, by about 20%. But such variability is well within the normal range for this blog: commenting has risen or fallen by much more than that in years past.
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@Jefe
“They may even get labeled as “anti-black”.”—Kiwi didn’t get labeled anti-black for questioning any of the tenets you mentioned. He got labeled anti-black for a lot more stuff that you kindly ignored. Even when those things were quoted to you, you immediately wrote them off.
“4. People cannot be anti-racist or anti-white supremacy unless they make the issue of “Black Lives Matter” (or one of its related tropes) the central aim of attacking white supremacy.”—I have never seen anyone make that claim of similar. What I have seen is people point out that you can’t claim to be anti-racist yet still uphold white supremacist actions and attitudes. For example, mad at black people and ready to chastise and protest when they wrong you, but silent as a mouse when white people do it.
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@abagond
I thought Da Jokah got banned?
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@ jefe
Wow! Thank you for your long and thoughtful comment! I read through it but it will take a while to digest it.
Some immediate comments:
#1. I threw Aaron Mak out there for discussion. I did not say much, which led Kiwi to conflate my views with Mak’s. I am not Aaron Mak. So I need to clear that up in some manner.
#2. From my point of view there are three kinds of third-rail posts: anything critical of Trump or Russia and anything having to do with Black-Asian relations, like Peter Liang. I am not going to be cowed into silence, but, as you point out, it might be more productive to approach them obliquely.
#3. Yes, I need more first and third pillar posts!
#4. Trump and Black Lives Matter have been hardening opinions on this blog, which poisons open discussion. I think we agree on that.
#5. The “Blacks can’t be racist” thing is hardly new. On this blog it goes back to at least 2008, almost since the time I had an appreciable number of commenters. So King’s remarks about it are puzzling. He has always been swimming in that sea here since day one. But maybe #4 has made it more obvious
#6. Thanks for the enumeration of Sacred Truths, Very helpful.
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@ Sharina
Right, Da Jokah was banned, in 2014, so his departure is not mysterious at all.
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OK, a couple of quick retorts:
You did say something. Something very key – your opinion, not Aaron Mak’s. Maybe I should explain it offline in an email.
I know that sparked an incendiary explosion from the alleged anti-black flame thrower, but the dry tinder for that spark had been collecting for many months already.
Yes, I have been following this blog since 2011 and spent a time to read all the posts back to 2006. I know it has always been here.
But it never became a defining meme on this blog. That is, until about 2015. Now it has become a sacred truth that you either tacitly support through silence, or let it creep into the main posts themselves.
The sea used to get rough, occasional large swells in the storms, but flat and calm at others. Now the sea is infested with sharks.
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Maybe a good way to examine the effects of the Trump era is not to discuss about Trump himself, but about what is happening to US institutions, eg, this thing from Vox:
The decline of American democracy won’t be televised
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pF-Tdsvk0tI)
From my standpoint, I compare what is happening in the USA v. what is happening in HK.
In the US, the democractic backsliding is subtle and gradual. In HK, it is blatant and unapologetic.
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Thanks Jefe for sharing your point of view.
Abagonds blog has always tried to be multicultural with a set of liberal ethics but with the rise of police violence against black citizenry the black community is “circling the wagons” so to speak and I think that is reflective in the comments on this blog.
I dont belive this blog has imploded or that there has been a mass exodus of commentors. Some commentators like King moved on but I doubt he holds grudges against anybody here.
I dont think there is a singular reason for fewer commentators now rather people get affected by different things.
Like ….
The election burned people out.
Democracy has became seriously questioned.
The reality that Obama, while president, did next to nothing for the black community and the idiological fallout from that realization.
Abagond tolerating LOM and resw. Banning them a long time ago would have put this blog in a better place today.
Abagond mirrowing the MSM view of Russia ect.
Nobody here likes Trump or Hillary. But that provided troll material.
On the plus side the last few years have picked up new commentators that have added great content.
I personally am fine with Abagonds content.
New readers shouldn’t take resw’s dissing to seriously.
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^MJB
I never said it was a single thing.
And yes, the Trump-related and Russia-related themes have had an effect also.
If you are fine with everything, it is still possible that some content may not sit well with everyone. And in general, the quality of the comments has noticeably deteriorated in the past 2 years (perhaps for a variety of reasons).
I still follow it more or less, but it is not as enlightening.
If I recall, you started coming here around 2014-2015? Did you read the posts all the way back to 2006? the comments?
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@ jefe
Yes, please do.
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“Abagond tolerating LOM and resw. Banning them a long time ago would have put this blog in a better place today.”
Banning michaeljonbarker would have been much better given he admittedly initiates personal attacks against commenters with whom he disagrees.
He’s part of the problem and new commenters should be on high alert since he’s racist, and that’s according to him:
” My mind is wired to think like a racist.” https://abagond.wordpress.com/2016/01/28/bernie-sanders/#comment-308505
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“If I recall, you started coming here around 2014-2015?”
I use to commemt on “Stuff White People Do” and then Malcom shut his blog down. It was preety aggessive towards the end so when I found this blog I remember thinking that the commenters here were more respectful and I liked the diversity of subjects Abagond wrote on.
I wouldnt say the quality of comments has declined overall rather that commentors are less diverse and are more U.S. citizens.
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I think I started commenting here 2012/2013.
Malcom’s blog shutdown in 2010 but I didnt come here right away.
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@Abagond,
Sorry, I am not sure if I will have enough time for a full reply, but I just took a look at the Aaron Mak post again, the article that it was based on, and some of the commentary. I had to stop following that thread after a while and never went back to it until now.
There was some mention of the shift towards taking a white left wing liberal attitude towards race relations in America and how Asians fit into that framework.
Based on what you selected to report from the Aaron Mak article, it appears that you shifted further in that direction also. So, it was less exactly what Aaron Mak said, but Abagond’s interpretation of it. There is nothing wrong with interpreting something, but this and other posts suggest that you have shifted in your stance somewhat.
I also looked at that Young Turks clip again, recognizing that it was the one I originally posted, and it has increasingly appeared that you have shifted in that direction. Add to that the “sacred truths” that you tacitly support (despite what you actually “said” you support), then we have a noticeable shift. Or maybe it was always there, only
I ran into an article on a talk that I attended in February (and posted a link in another thread) comparing the history of interracial marriage in China, HK and the USA going back to the 19th century, and I remember specifically a white woman in the audience asking a question about the situation now v. then, suggesting that Asians no longer suffer from measurable discrimination in US society or no longer speak out about it like they may have in the past. The speaker corrected her immediately saying that Asians in America still suffer from all sorts of racial discrimination, still speak out vociferously against it and are fighting for all sorts of things — any review of the Asian American blogosphere would show that it is very active.
Well, apparently white liberals have rewritten both history and the current state of affairs, and have found a willing audience among … many blacks. Not saying all, but there is some resonance there.
I don’t think I have much to add to what had already been said. What may be a good exercise for you is finally to get down and have a think about what the White Liberal Guide to Asians would be and do a post on it.
Then maybe do the Republican Guide and White Liberal Guide to Native Americans. How is white supremacy maintained in each of those guides and what beliefs do they reinforce?
How do blacks fit into that?
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@MJB
or maybe, there has been a shift to positions that support your political standpoint?
Is that consistent with what King said here?
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@MJB
“I wouldnt say the quality of comments has declined overall rather that commentors are less diverse and are more U.S. citizens.”—Perhaps, but I look at it in a large change in what Abagond was writing about then and now. In the past abagond had a lot of post centered on white people and their behaviors, books he had read, history, or cultural type things. This brought out a lot of whites derailing the topic of posts to point out that “blacks do it too” or efforts to refute what abagond was saying. This brought about things to ponder.
For me the highlight of this blog was reading about people from different cultural backgrounds and getting advice from them on certain things. The downside has been no accountability.
I have been here long enough to see commenters come and go who are hard on what the black community should and needs to do. I have spoke on that at times and agreed with many who have the same sentiment. However, on posts about Asians it is often this need of no accountability. On black issues every race of commenter has something to say and I get it as most past have been about blacks or whites, but I notice when speaking on Asians it is an immediate response of “You don’t have a right you’re not Asian”. Now don’t get me wrong I have heard blacks say similar and I don’t agree that you can’t either way. Another issues is I often feel it is some sort of taboo to speak on issues of Asian anti-black attitudes. It is as if it is to be swept under the rug or you get had daggers thrown at you for even mention it or any flaws or setbacks within the Asian community. However you get the green light to discuss Asians as victims of white supremacy or black supremacy. Asian supremacy doesn’t exit.
In the group I am in we regularly discuss things such as Anti-African attitudes among black Americans and vise versa. Anti-black attitudes among nbpoc. Blacks who attack other POC etc. and it gets heated but it also gets discussed without excuses. Different cultures and backgrounds are often highlighted.
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@Jefe
“The speaker corrected her immediately saying that Asians in America still suffer from all sorts of racial discrimination”—This is true and I fully agree with you. In fact I would say it either has increased or become more highlighted.
“still speak out vociferously against it and are fighting for all sorts of things — any review of the Asian American blogosphere would show that it is very active.”—This on the other hand is not entirely true and I say not entirely because I am not sure if they mean speak out as in say something about the issue or as in active protesting. Asian blogs will talk about the issues they face, but the action part of it is still something some Asian bloggers have acknowledged isn’t getting done. Here is in full what bigwowo told Kiwi.
bigWOWO on June 1, 2017 at 8:30 am said:
Kiwi,
While we’re on agreement with the result, I kind of have to agree with Snoopy when it comes to the cause. It has nothing to do with punching up or punching down or punching horizontally. It’s all about who is in charge, who’s got the power, who people care more about, and how people want to portray themselves or describe their role in society.
The issue here is Asians. Asians complain about their tertiary role in society all the time. But we rarely speak out against that which really ails us. Instead, we too often fall right into line, perpetuating the same nonsense that we always hear from the Far Left.
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@MJB
Excuse my typos
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“…Asians in America still suffer from all sorts of racial discrimination, still speak out vociferously against it and are fighting for all sorts of things — any review of the Asian American blogosphere would show that it is very active.
Well, apparently white liberals have rewritten both history and the current state of affairs, and have found a willing audience among … many blacks.”
The flaw in that reasoning is that Black people could not care less what “White liberals” have to say about Asian Americans or anyone else. As a people, Black folk are well aware of White distortions of other people.
On the whole White liberals and conservatives both laud Asian Americans as models of success in the US. It is instructive that the only group Trump and company have not blamed for some social ill are Asian Americans. Every other non-European group has been targeted with vociferous and repeated abuse.
Black people’s attitudes about Asian Americans are a direct reaction to the attitudes and behaviors of Asian Americans toward Black people. When I lurk on those sites where Black rage is catered to and freely expressed, there is a lot of discussion of anti-Black behaviors by White people and criticism of other Black people for various reasons. Asian Americans are rarely, if ever, discussed.
In contrast, when I have lurked on sites where Asians gather, there is a festival of anti-Black insults, commentary and implicit threats against Black people. Sometimes I have to check the address bar to confirm that I’m not on a Klan site. Asian Americans need to do a critical examination of their own biases before they throw stones at Black people’s alleged anti-Asian attitudes.
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@Afrofem
“Asian Americans need to do a critical examination of their own biases before they throw stones at Black people’s alleged anti-Asian attitudes.”—I agree. I will write more and in detail later, but I feel there are a lot of areas that Many in the Asian community need to take stock in.
When biff and others like him would frequent this blog, I often dismissed or rebuked their ideas of Asians. Recently I began to ponder a great deal of what Biff has said in that regard. While much of what he says is trash, I do believe his interactions with Asians have been one where he felt more in power and they displayed to him a sense of weakness or worship mentality or behavior. It was his own confirmation bias through his experience. Yet the issues is that is what was displayed to him and Asians greatly need to stop giving off that white worship vibe if they want to be seen as strong or threatening to whites.
On the flip side, most blacks I grew up around saw Asians as strong. They heavily believed in the “All Asians know kingfu” stereotype and were hesitant of bothering Asians. This I believe was more of movie confirmation bias rather than interaction with Asians.
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@ Sharina
“…I do believe his interactions with Asians have been one where he felt more in power and they displayed to him a sense of weakness or worship mentality or behavior.”
Good point.
I think all non-European communities in the US and globally have been taught to worship or at least, defer to Europeans. Asians and Asian Americans are not alone in that behavior. Way too many Black people are still on their knees.
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@Abagond
Appreciate you responding to my questions.
What I get out of it: the thrill of writing and have others respond, the different points of view, learning and finding out new things, having some kind of (hopefully) good effect on others….
Its good that you still get a buzz out of it – the whole moderation and monitoring of it must be hard I mean if you ever take ‘time out’ from looking after the blog or if you are on holiday even a couple of days could potentially see wrong things filter through!!!!!
Anyway, fair play to you
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So in my state of boredom I did a little reading at Bigwowo and found this comment of great interest. http://www.bigwowo.com/2016/04/somebody-has-to-say-it/#comment-322818
What he describes is basically a similar atmosphere to what King described here. Interesting.
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To quote myself from 2 months ago. When the Trump Derangement Syndrome just finished peaking
Got back good. We’ll see if he gets back great.
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Afrofem said:
Zoe on Nomad’s blog said:
and:
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After I banned Resw and Nomad they discussed the fairness of that on Nomad’s blog and how I have changed. Zoe joined them.
Read the thread here (where Nomad cross posts my reason for banning him and Resw):
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^^ On that thread Resw and Nomad discuss the breakdown in civility that led to their ouster. A good summary of that are the two comments that start here:
I put those two comments on this blog here:
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This pretty much confirms my thoughts on Zoe. She wants people to agree with her rather than take a breath and re-evaluate the situation. I don’t want to speak for Afrofem, but the questions she asked were based on the idea that it was misleading to categorize her father as black. This was especially necessary when she was using her “black” father to shut down villagewriter’s surprise.
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Why am I not surprised that this place has gone downhill after my departure? It has apparently devolved into an echo chamber, a den of SJWs and an enabler of Trump derangement syndrome.
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@biff:
LOLZ!!!
@jefe:
Thanks for invoking his name!
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Biff, how was that braised unicorn with ambrosia sauce? I’m glad you’re back. I want to know what a “race realist” makes of the Redlegs of Barbados. Never heard of them? Here you go: “Redleg is a term used to refer to poor whites that live on Barbados, St. Vincent, Grenada and a few other Caribbean islands. Their forebears came from Ireland, Scotland and the West of England.[1]…By the 18th century, indentured servants became less common. African slaves were trained in all necessary trades, so there was no demand for paid white labour. The Redlegs,[which?] in turn, were unwilling to work alongside the freed slave population on the plantations.[citation needed] Therefore, most tried to emigrate to other British colonies whenever the opportunity arose, which reduced the white population to a small minority; and most of the white population that chose to stay eked out, at best, a subsistence living. The Redleg descendants of indentured servants today are extremely poor, almost all living in shacks in the countryside. Many Redlegs reside in St. John’s Parish.[which?]…For the small Redleg community still living on Barbados, most live a poorer standard of life than the blacks, relying on farming or running small shops and brothels that serve the wealthier blacks.[3]” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redleg
Abagond won’t touch this subject with a ten foot pole. Will you give it a try?
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Where’s the Biff? Almost four years ago, he wrote the following:
” on Thu 6 Nov 2014 at 06:28:25
biff
gro jo said, “You are stating an obvious fact., this is not an explanation. In order to explain the variations observed you need to find a biological mechanism to explain the observed fact.”
No, the point here (what I am making) are the “facts” and their implications. IQ matters on average and on a large scale. This is an observable fact. Yes, there might be some people who accomplish a lot with seemingly lower IQs. These people are individuals (among whom there is a lot of variation, as you agreed was an obvious “fact”).
gro jo, you are asking a lot of complex questions to try to sound intelligent. Nothing I say is going to satisfy you. So I am trying to keep it very simple. Intelligence exists and IQ is a proxy for that. There are measurable IQ differences between different groups of people. Differences in IQ on a large scale (and on average) for populations have significant effects on what that population achieves (not that there aren’t other factors). Finally, there are lots of individual variations, so it doesn’t add anything to the topic to discuss Michael Faraday or Michael Brown.
You can look up the measured differences in IQ between Eskimos and Chinese yourself. “Asians” make up over half the world’s population and have tremendous variations in average IQ levels–Africans have variation too, but measured average IQ levels for different black African groups are from the 50s to the 80s. Re: whether the Flynn effect will come make everyone equal, I will consider that question tonight over my favorite dinner of braised unicorn with ambrosia.”
The observed facts contradict Biff’s claim. Chanda Chisala’s 6/25/2015 article on unz.com documented that some Black African groups outperformed Whites and Asians. As the Redlegs and some Hillbillies show, some whites scrape the bottom of the barrel, IQ wise, and some blacks outperform the white average. After a steady diet of “braised unicorn with ambrosia.”, for the last 3+ years, you’d think Biff would tell us how differences between groups arise.
https://www.unz.com/article/the-iq-gap-is-no-longer-a-black-and-white-issue/
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gro jo,
“The biff” sadly doesn’t have as much time to come here and play these days. Re: the info quoted for the Wikipedia entry (it should be noted that Wikipedia is policed by leftists, who would delete reference to facts they deemed “racist”), later in the source material it says “I must stress that all of this is based mostly on rumour and on research done 20 years ago. We will know the truth only when TG4’s documentary is aired.” It is hardly a definitive source.
If you IQ tested the “Redlegs”, my bet is they would score a bit higher than the average fully black Barbadian (even though they are “bottom of the barrel” whites). My impression of Barbados (and similar islands) generally is that they enjoy a decent standard of living primarily because (i) they retain a sizable minority of whites and creoles who are disproportionately in leadership positions, (ii) they largely retain their effective British methods of government; and (iii) they get lots of tourist dollars that support the relatively modest native populations. By opting out of this system, and largely not getting nice gov’t and tourist-focused jobs, the Redlegs could be poorer than middle class blacks.
Your statement, “some whites scrape the bottom of the barrel, IQ wise, and some blacks outperform the white average” may be true in some isolated circumstances, but it doesn’t change the overwhelming disparities we see throughout the world in mixed populations. The exception proves the rule.
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Biff, I’ve always enjoyed your commentary and insight. Can you give me some advice? I was arguing with my friends the other day over men(nothing new eh?). Do you think most men would prefer larger genitals over brains? It is my opinion they would as that is what they think with mostly anyway. Thanks.
I’m going back to boulder holder shopping!
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I suspect that if you gave IQ test to China’s rural poor the results would come back as average or below. Similarly if you gave IQ tests to white Appalachian poor they would mirrow the rural poor in China.
If you look at the quality of Immigrants coming from both Africa and Asia, Africans that do come to the U.S. are better educated then Asians.
Its my opinon that it is access to information and being able to participate and benefit from market economies that increases intelligence; not genetic code.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bloomberg.com/amp/view/articles/2015-10-13/it-isn-t-just-asian-immigrants-who-excel-in-the-u-s-
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“If you IQ tested the “Redlegs”, my bet is they would score a bit higher than the average fully black Barbadian (even though they are “bottom of the barrel” whites).”
Proof that a diet of unicorn and ambrosia is deadly to the little grey cells. The Blacks have bested the Redlegs for over a century, how do you figure that the Redlegs have higher IQs which, you claim is a proxy for intelligence? Why did they not use their ‘intelligence’ to dominate the Blacks? We’re not talking about individual differences here, but group differences, you know, the stuff you claim to be an ‘expert’ on? You might want to argue that Redlegs, being such small group of Whites, aren’t representative of the race, fine, now explain the following fact found in Mr. Chisala’s article:
“Although the Chinese and Indians are still very conspicuously above even the best African nationalities, their superiority disappears when the Nigerian and other groups are broken down even further according to their different tribal ethnicities. Groups like the famous Igbo tribe, which has contributed much genetically to the African American blacks, are well known to be high academic achievers within Nigeria. In fact, their performance seems to be at least as high as the “model minority” Chinese and Indians in the UK, as seen when some recent African immigrants are divided into languages spoken at home (which also indicates that these are not multigenerational descendants but children of recent immigrants)…Africans speaking Luganda and Krio did better than the Chinese students in 2011. The igbo were even more impressive given their much bigger numbers (and their consistently high performance over the years, gaining a 100 percent pass rate in 2009!). The superior Igbo achievement on GCSEs is not new and has been noted in studies that came before the recent media discovery of African performance. A 2007 report on “case study” model schools in Lambeth also included a rare disclosure of specified Igbo performance (recorded as Ibo in the table below) and it confirms that Igbos have been performing exceptionally well for a long time (5 + A*-C GCSEs); in fact, it is difficult to find a time when they ever performed below British whites.”
We’re not talking about exceptions here but about rules. Take it away maestro, explain or explain away these facts based on your claim that, as Blacks, Igbos, Luganda and Krio speakers have IQs that range “…from the 50s to the 80s.”
Biff, do make some time for us, Herneith and I miss your surreal humor.
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http://herneith.d.pr/fVuSJ8
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IQ tests are the colloidal silver/black money washing of the research world: https://phys.org/news/2015-03-uncovers-flawed-iq-scoring.html
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“The Biff” wrote: ” My impression of Barbados (and similar islands) generally is that they enjoy a decent standard of living primarily because (i) they retain a sizable minority of whites and creoles who are disproportionately in leadership positions, (ii) they largely retain their effective British methods of government; and (iii) they get lots of tourist dollars that support the relatively modest native populations.”
“The population of Barbados is predominantly black (92.4%) or mixed (3.1%). 2.7% of the population is white and 1.3% South Asian. The remaining 0.4% of the population includes East Asians (0.1%) and Middle Easterners (0.1%).”
“95% of Haitians are of predominantly African descent. The remaining 5% of the population is primarily mulattoes, Europeans, Asians and Arabs.”
So, a difference of 2.6% in the black population results in a 21x (16,070/739.60) per capita income in favor of Barbados according to “The Biff”! Are whites disproportionately in leadership positions in Barbados compared to Haiti? Out of 15 cabinet ministers for Barbados, 14 are black, as far as I can tell, and one is Indian. 19 out of 20 Haitian cabinet ministers are black, the minister for tourism is a white or very fair skinned woman, Stéphanie Villedrouin. The Biff’s impression is imprecise like everything else associated with him. My question to him is where’s the beef?
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riH5EsGcmTw)
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gro jo:
Haiti probably has more than 50% less (proportionately) of the white minority that Barbados has. The other key thing for these islands, besides tourism, is being able to serve as an offshore financial haven. Again, that has to do with maintaining Anglo style law and order. Kick out the rest of the whites and how long do you think it is before no foreign currency is coming in and the island collapses into chaos? Anyone want to vacation in Haiti these days?
Anyway, your point about the Igbo, etc. is well taken. Of course there are important genetic differences among Africans. Who can doubt that Tutsis would destroy Hutus in IQ tests (on average)? However, this just shows that genetic differences are real. The Igbos who make it to the UK are the cream of the crop (and the Igbos are less than 3% of Africa’s population anyway). So, even with demonstrated mean reversion, their kids would do well. It’s interesting that most blacks in the US at the ivy league level are either heavily white (like Obama ~ 50% white) or children of first generation brain drain immigrants (again like Obama), rather than the masses of 75%+ black descendants of slaves.
Anyway, seems you guys really did miss me… will try to pop in from time to time when I can.
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I get the feeling that the above gentleman is some nerd that has his head fixed in some Wikipedia article and doesn’t understand how actual Caribbean economies work. Anyone familiar with colonial and post-colonial white skinned rulers will know that that these white guys are always the problem, never the solution.
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I get the feeling that the above gentleman is some nerd that has his head fixed in some Wikipedia article and doesn’t understand how actual Caribbean economies work. Anyone familiar with colonial and post-colonial white skinned rulers will know that that these white guys are always the problem, never the solution.
This is what makes them comical, the inability to simply write; ‘I don’t know’. They try to give the impression that they do. Instead of trying to learn they wish to argue.
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If they really did believe their own claims, they would not be here debating people they claim have Down’s Syndrome level I.Q. That is the truly sad thing. They are so lonely, so impotent in their own lives, that this is what they have to do to keep away the existential boredom.
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‘If they really did believe their own claims, they would not be here debating people they claim have Down’s Syndrome level I.Q.’
I find that perplexing as well, but then again I have an iq of 50 million, beneath my notice!
That is the truly sad thing.
Yes as their droll commentary has the opposite effect. Crack out the violins, Sate Sate is sad!
They are so lonely, so impotent in their own lives, that this is what they have to do to keep away the existential boredom.
Hey, everyone needs a hobby!
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@ biff:
This screams “You darkies need us, cause you can’t run sh*t without us.” The geopolitical equivalent of the domestic abuser’s “you’re nothing without me” speech.
Don’t flatter yourself.
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Back on topic.
I could see how this site was going to devolve about when I first started posting here. Regarding the comment section.
1)Too much conspiracy theory and wierdoes in black discussions, compared to mainstream discussion, and no one who is willing to confront them on forums – in person or online. So you end up with the silent majority of black people beig afraid of being shamed by afrocentrists, SJW, conspiracy theorists, and other such wierdoes and deviant scum. So they leave the blog, go into lurker mode, or visit sporadically. On top of that, you have Abagond encouraging this with his “wink, wink, nod” of these sickos with posts like The Isis Papers. This leaves you with no interesting people in the comments to talk with not named “Herneith.”
2)We all know that the Asiatic race are a worthless pack of sick subhuman scum who want nothing more than to achieve a mainstream position that will allow them to kill and abuse black people without having to face responsibility for their actions. And that this is both an unchangeable genetic and neuro-psychological characteristic about them. But that does not give us the right to discriminate against them. We’re all human beings, you know, and that makes us all God’s creatures. It would be better if (some) incidents and people have their ideas and motives examined with the assumption that they are not all maliciious, even if these people come from a psychopathic race. Unless they are Irish or Italian. Those people can die in a fire.
3)Sometimes, while I am here, I get the feeling that black people can do no wrong , and non-blacks can do no right. So inter-black foolishness is never discussed. Perhaps it is a defense mechanism to prevent white trolls from using the blog as a leftist example to prove their own ideas. But some self-criticism as to why some movements and people succeed and why they fail.
4)Remember Peak Abagond? When he had all these comment sections that were so heavy that you couldn’t comment anymore? Remember what they were about? Crap like “Why do they hate, despise and defile black people so much…..sob” Ugh. Self-pity is not a good look, leave that crap to emos, Fox News and 15 year girls. Are we not Men dammit! Just because nobody feels sorry for black people doesn’t mean that we should feel sorry for ourselves. ~Cirka~ Circlejerking is fun and all, good exercise, yes, but such insularity doesn’t last for long. Self-pity is like a drug, you have to get a bigger high than the last one you had. Is that what you want here? A bunch of depressed and angry people influencing your thoughts and posts Abagond? Because those were the types of people (along with the self-righteous types) commenting on those posts.
Think about this a second. The only reason I’m even back is because I got a “like” from a blog called AbagondLies. Abagond is getting people who are so emotionally invested in his comments section, that when they get banned for tormenting decent civilized people they go set up another blog to fight “The Good Fight” against the Abagond Illuminati. Jesus. And we wonder where all the normal people have gone?
These are people who believe their on a mission, so your feelings don’t really matter to them. Because Abagond failed to enforce the simple social courtesies that most normal people know and understand by their freshman year of college, the wierdoes metastazied from a benign tumour to a colo-rectal cancer whose treatment will render the comment section brain-damaged from all the enforcement that will have take place.
As for the topics.
1) No more transgender foolishness. I come here for knowledge. Not deviant porn
2) A return of the top 10 most beautiful black/African women. The amount of hair=straightening and skin-bleaching may make this more difficult however.
3) No more Russiagate. Watergate had physical evidence. Unless there is an IP address, a confession and/or a definitive money trail to a VPN that can be linked to the Russian government, then it never happened.
4) Pro-active solutions. This BLM foolishness is just a scam to get some activists money and a spot in the Democraatic Party. Just look at that queer DeRay. Let him try that round my neck of the woods. Had to punch one of them at the clinic last week. Nevertheless, you can’t just roll up in a balland hope Trump will get impeached, or that Rachel Maddow will save the day. What’s going on with urban farming? Community banking? Scholarships for our people?
5) Some more international stuff. If you have the time, it would be cool ifyou could get some info on what’s going on with the Black diaspora.
6) More guests posts. Good for that in-between time.
Now lets make Abagond Great Again.
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” Abagond is getting people who are so emotionally invested in his comments section, that when they get banned for tormenting decent civilized people they go set up another blog to fight “The Good Fight” against the Abagond Illuminati.
[…]
…the wierdoes metastazied from a benign tumour to a colo-rectal cancer…”
LOLZ!
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“Haiti probably has more than 50% less (proportionately) of the white minority that Barbados has.”
Wow, thanks for confirming that you are ignorant. 5% of Haiti’s population is primarily mulattoes, Europeans, Asians and Arabs. so, 542,500 people fall in that category, assuming whites make up 1/4th of that group they would be 135,625 and equal to 48.81% of the 277,821 total population of Barbados. They outnumber whites on Barbados (7,501) by 128,124 or 18 times(135,625/7501)!
I can’t wait to read another demonstration of your ‘superior’ intellect.
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gro jo:
Population of Haiti is 10,850,000. Population of Barbados is 285,000. Look up the word “proportionately” from my statement above and do the math for yourself.
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“the Abagond Illuminati” lmao
“Too much conspiracy theory and wierdoes in black discussions, compared to mainstream discussion”
Abagond can’t control who comments here. How can you control that ? Have a flat earth question ? lol
I think people sense there is something not right. But then a they immediately latch onto the most bizzare theories and solutions as to why the world around them is no longer the reality that they were brought up to believe in. This leads to magic bullet solutions.
So the whole population, regardluss of race, lack critical thinking skills.
“This BLM foolishness is just a scam to get some activists money and a spot in the Democraatic Party.”
Disagree. No one is in charge of BLM. It is made up of a bunch of independent cells. I think the DNC wants to control and influence BLM for obvious political reasons and I imagine DNC political operatives are in some chapters but for the moment it appears to remain quasi independent.
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“Some more international stuff. If you have the time, it would be cool ifyou could get some info on what’s going on with the Black diaspora.”
I would personally love more posts that focus on African descent people in Canada and the Caribbean region. Ditto for Afro-Arabs and Afro-Asians (in India and Southeast Asia).
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@MJB
“Abagond can’t control who comments here.”—Abagond can’t control it without engaging in some dictatorship, but those type of comments make people not even want to bother to comment.
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I think the movement towards white supremcy is growing. Race realism combined with right “libertarian” nationalist idiology is growing rapidly in social media.
There is a new generation of white supremecy racists that are more intelligent then the old KKK varient. That makes them more dangerous long term.
I think this trend would have happened even if Trump wasn’t elelcted. It has been there all along in plain sight.
This blog link is typical and probably one that Biff would like.
https://radicalcapitalist.org/2017/07/20/black-vs-white-iq-culture-and-civilization/
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@ michaeljonbarker
“There is a new generation of white supremecy racists that are more intelligent then the old KKK varient.”
The new generation of White Supremacists have more educational credentials, but I would argue that they are not more intelligent.
I followed the link you provided. There I saw the same old social darwinist arguments used to justify White superiority that I’ve read for years now. Most telling: the meat of the author’s argument came from J. Philippe Rushton & Arthur R. Jensen. Both are notorious “scientific” racists who have been refuted by fact based writers for decades.
All of the anti-Black/ anti-African arguments the blog author and the commenters used have been successfully refuted by numerous Black people. Abagond has written posts that shred those flimsy arguments like facial tissue. Ditto for the commenters here and elsewhere.
This comment, in particular, was dripping with such ignorance, I laughed aloud:
Those silly presumptions have been exposed over and over again to be lies.
Modern White Supremacists are dangerous for the same reasons their great-grandfathers were dangerous: (population) numbers, guns and money. If any of those legs collapse, they will still have influence, but lose power over the lives of others.
Waning White population numbers are the main reason they are in such a panic right now. They think that trotting out White Supremacist pseudo-science will save them. It makes them feel good, but does not address they real reason for their decline————their wealthy White/European cousins stealing from them and yelling “negro, negro” to divert attention from their crimes.
P.S. MJB, you made a logical argument to them, but they are blinded by their fear.
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If black people were unable to make much of the above, there wouldn’t be any black people alive in Africa. I love how they fail to mention that no Euro culture made a written language system – they got theirs from the Phoenicians and King Cadmus. One of only 4 peoples to make one (Don’t quote me – China, MesoAmerica, Phoenicia, and Arabs.)
Certain subcultures seem to be more amenable to this. Think about it. In those places , all you have to be is a middle-class white man. Full stop. Religious study is hard. Hobbies require dedication (or in the case of video games, addiction). But the only thing that these people have in common is that they are
Middle-class white men
NEET, or some college, or un/deremployed
Sexually and Relationship dysfunction (MGTOW, PUA, Incel, or Asian fetish)
You get the feeling that these racial explanation makes them think that they have an explanation why their life sucks. But as a Caribbean these answers seem weird. Me and my buddies in 6th form high school were getting 1200-1500 in SAT scores and getting multiple A-Levels. Hell, I just retaught myself P.D.E. (just wave equation level tho.)
And on these domestic animals. They always complain that black people nver domesticated the zebra and the African buffalo. But did white people do that either? I don’t see anyone riding any zebras still……. And did they here about all those white people in Southern Africa who couldn’t get anything done til the natives pointed out their mistakes? Actual history is always better than chin-stroking speculation.
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Back on topic
No, but people need to clown these vile negroes like we clown the vile racists. They always infiltrate, takeover and push the normal people out.
Remember that these people believe that they are on a mission. They are here to save the world, they are right, you wrong, how dear you question Alex Jones, you sheep are you dumb, how dare you after I’ve given you this esoteric knowledge, I gave you the redpill……..
This decentralized,independent cell nonsense is phooey. Lack of proper hierarchy is lame because that just means that you can be hijacked by powerful entites with big budgets and small ideas. Hashtags and cool brands do not a movement make. Even McDonald’s makes sure that the menu is up to date nd teh fod is quality at their restaurants. Notice ow the sent DeRay to Ferguson to infiltrate. Wait til they send someone who actually knows what they are doing……
Also, they do not focus on economics, and they do not reach out to other races killed by police. So it gives the impression not that Black Lives Matter, but Only Black Lives Matter.
Protests don’t work anymore. Break away from the economy, have a southern base, and spend the next 20 years building political and economic strength with select allies. Segregation was really the best option. The Chinese with their banks have learnt this lesson well.
Back off-topic
Same old losers.Just look how Roissy evolved into Heartiste. Or Return of Kings. Or Tariq Nasheed for that matter. When you have no real solutions, you unite people through superficial stuff they don’t have to work for. Like race, sex, class etc.You then have to red pill them with that racist pseudo-science, and bingo! Never mind that they’ve been primed all their life with video games (RPGs and Beat em ups use 3 bears, strategy games like Civ teach a view of civilization evolution etc), B.S. media, and a poor educational system that fails to teach them how statistics can be manipulated. Or people for that matter. Its always been their. American Psycho and Falling Down anticipated this.
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Biff wrote: “gro jo:
Population of Haiti is 10,850,000. Population of Barbados is 285,000. Look up the word “proportionately” from my statement above and do the math for yourself.” Don’t make me laugh, you used that word as a fig leaf to hide your ignorance. Tell me what contributions your Barbadian whites made to science and technology? Charles Terres Weymann (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Terres_Weymann) was an aviation pioneer and inventor from Haiti, he was ‘white’ at least as white as you can be with black ancestors. Mr. Lucien Hibbert was a Haitian politician, mathematician and educator. I believe he was white.
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michaeljonbarker:
You said
“I think the movement towards white supremcy is growing. Race realism combined with right “libertarian” nationalist idiology is growing rapidly in social media.”
Thanks for the link. It is useful if pretty blunt. Bottom line, most “race realists” are not expecting or advocating ethnic cleansing. It has just become clear that life in the U.S. is getting worse (has been since the turn of this century) and that we are slowly becoming a Central American/South American country demographically, with attendant inequality and negative repercussions for all (Donald Trump could not exist in a healthy Western democracy and would have been unthinkable even a decade ago). More people are becoming “race realist” because what is happening to the West is impossible for thinking people to ignore. This is the dystopian reality. You didn’t offer any rebuttals of the IQ stats. It just gives you bad feelz to contemplate whites standing up for themselves and saying, “no, actually we don’t want the U.S., Europe, Australia, Canada and New Zealand to become third world demographically.” But you’ve just been trained that way. Don’t you see, you wouldn’t object to Asians or Africans standing their ground and controlling foreign immigration.
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gro jo:
I’m sure those white Barbadians only made about 1/18th of the contributions to science and technology that white Haitians did. Doesn’t matter if they can keep the tourist and financial sector dollars coming in.
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“Doesn’t matter if they can keep the tourist and financial sector dollars coming in.”
Your claim is based on what? This link doesn’t back your claim. No surprise there.
http://www.bhta.org/index/about-bhta/the-directors.html
The head of the Barbados Bankers Association Inc. is Mr. David Noel, a weird white that sane people would describe as black! He replaced the equally black Glyne Harrison in 2016. Where are you getting your phantom white saviors from?
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@ Biff
“with attendant inequality”
When exactly was there equality in the U.S.?
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@ biff
“… It has just become clear that life in the U.S. is getting worse… and that we are slowly becoming a Central American/South American country demographically, with attendant inequality and negative repercussions for all ….
More [European descent] people are becoming “race realist” because what is happening to the West is impossible for thinking people to ignore.
This is the dystopian reality. “
Life is becoming worse in the USA because White Americans dropped the ball. They’ve had the political power for the past 50 years to reverse the downward spiral of Imperial America, but were too selfish and lazy to challenge their wealthy cousins who:
☛ shippped jobs, factories and whole industries to low wage countries overseas
☛ cut off the flow of public funds to education. That created huge debt burdens on students of working and middle class backgrounds. That, in turn, has drained the financial resources of millions of American families
☛ deregulated the financial sector and other corporate sectors which led to massive fraud and abuse by the wealthy which impoverished millions of Americans during the 2007-2008 financial crash
☛ hollowed out the courts and packed them with Federalist Society zealots
☛ de-fanged government agencies charged with protecting the health and safety of the American people
☛ bought the legislative and executive branches and made them wholly owned subsidiaries of corporate America
Instead White Americans let themselves be manipulated by savvy politicians who appealed to their anti-Black and anti immigrant racism while giving them nothing of substance in return.
Any “inequality and negative repercussions” are the result of White American worship of the wealthy and turning a blind eye to depredations on other
Americans. They now find themselves falling off the same cliff they helped push other people off years ago.
What goes around, comes around.
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Nah, its the Mexicans and those low I.Q. negroes burning down their ghettoes!!
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Testing Markdown:
List 1
List 2
*List 3
*List 4
Suoer^Subscript
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Biff lives in an alternate universe where reality is anything he says it is. Don’t bother him with the facts, he is a race surrealist who conjures phantom, ivory soap skinned saviors out of thin air.
“You didn’t offer any rebuttals of the IQ stats.” Because they are bs. You don’t offer any rebuttals why Redlegs have done worse than Blacks for more than a century. Are they not white?
” It just gives you bad feelz to contemplate whites standing up for themselves and saying, “no, actually we don’t want the U.S., Europe, Australia, Canada and New Zealand to become third world demographically.” But you’ve just been trained that way. Don’t you see, you wouldn’t object to Asians or Africans standing their ground and controlling foreign immigration.”
You. are. funny. Centuries of stealing land in the USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand, committing genocide (remember the Tasmanians and others?), enslaving people, doesn’t count as standing up for yourself?
Your real concern is that the rest of the world is catching up to you and, given your past villainy you’re scared they might want revenge.
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“You didn’t offer any rebuttals of the IQ stats.”
That’s because whatever “facts” I present will be dismissed out right. The source will be charaterized as “cutural marxist”.
So I attack their idiology. They claim to be anarchists and libertarians but the Alt right philosophy they have woven together isn’t philosophically consisitant.
They claim to be “anti state” (anarchism) but then want to leave in place corperate hiearchies which is largely what we have today.
Instead of the State possesing the monpoly on violence exclusively, the violence would be spread horizontally Black Water style with privatized security forces enforcing the law. Modern day feudalism.
U.S. Libertariansim is s fairly new idiology (1970’s) that originaly was about drug legalization, gay marraige and the decriminalization of non violent and consensual “crime”. A large part of todays libertariansim is mutating towards ethno nationalism and a return to Jim Crow.
Libertarian philosophy is based on something called the non agression principle. (NAP) It’s orginal intent was to create a moral ethic that limited violence to only self defense. The equipose between self ownership and private property with self ownership representing human value.
Right libertarianism puts private property over human
Value. It is why they want ro “privatise everything”.
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Testing Markdown:
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I think that you are wrong about this. On the American right-wing, only the Tea Party, and Ron Paul followers are “libertarian.” From what I’ve read and seen, the alt-right wants to go back to the era of 1944 to 1971, They want to go back to that era of majority whiteness, guaranteed marriage due to women knowing, or being put in their place (remember, PUA , RedPill) , high economic growth, trade surpluses, successful megaprojects backed by public funds (diverted from entitlements for minorities), renewed space program, no civil rights etc. I don’t see any sea-steading or bitcoin anything like that from them.
To see the incoherence of the alt-right, lets look at one idea – trade surpluses.
Simply, what does America make that I want?
☛ Why should I buy an Apple instead of a Samsung, Meizu, Huawei or Xiaomi?
☛ Why should I buy any American vehicle instead of a Toyota?
☛ Why should I buy a Boeing instead of an Antonov, Ilyushin or a DeHavilland?
☛ Why should I go with LockMart instead of Sukhoi or Saab?
☛ Why should I buy a Dell instead ofan Acer or Asus?
☛ Why should I buy a Caterpillar instead of Komatsu?
The fact is, America hasn’t made competitive products for a very long time. And maintaining “first-world demographic” will not change this.
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@ gro jo
Yes!
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Please append to the above.
Nor will it change the fact that Saturn V or Nerva rockets won’t be built, or that the cost of living is so high that you had better have Mexicans and Chinese making stuff for you and a two income household. Or that you can barely make jet fighters anymore. Building the wall will just keep the dystopia in.
Oh, and speaking of incoherence. The alt-right is usually anti-semitic, yet this presidency is Jewed up to the hilt .Donald Trump had Roy Cohn for his mentor, and his daughter and son-in-law are Jewish. Boggles the mind.
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They watching you Gro Jo!! They watching you!!!!
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“…the alt-right wants to go back to the era of 1944 to 1971, They want to go back to that era of majority whiteness, guaranteed marriage due to women knowing, or being put in their place …high economic growth, trade surpluses, successful megaprojects backed by public funds….”
What they will never admit about that era is that:
◎ There was a 90% tax on high income Americans, plus a robust estate tax regime.
◎ Nearly all highways, bridges, airports and seaports were publicly funded.
◎ Union representation went as high as 30% in the private sector. That had a spill over effect on all jobs, public and private.
◎ State colleges and universities were so inexpensive that many people were able to fund their education with summer jobs alone. Many public universities were tuition-free for state residents.
◎ K-12 education featured music, art, physical education, home economics, and machine shop classes. This was as true for low income students and affluent students. There were vocational high schools that focused on producing skilled workers who were job ready the day after graduation.
◎ In 1965, the minimum wage was $1.25 per hour. A full time minimum wage worker could afford a small apartment, food, clothes, transportation and temperate entertainment.
There were a lot of “hidden” supports for the average White American male worker. When they bleat about how they “made it on their own; nobody gave them anything, etc.” I think about how the whole society buoyed White working class men and smoothed the road to middle class for them. A lot of those supports came at the expense of Black taxpayers who were denied access to union jobs, state colleges/universities and minimum wages in some localities.
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@ satanforce:
Also worth noting that America’s competitiveness from the end of WWII up to the early 1970s came at the expense of other nations. It’s easy to be the largest or leading producer/manufacturer/inventor when everyone else is recovering from a devastating global conflict. As soon as Europe and Asia got back on their collective feet, it was Game Over.
@ Afrofem:
So this is what the alt-right really wants for itself and the rest of whitekind — a return to the pre-Civil Rights era status quo.
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No. That is not true. They are quite aware of this, and admit it freely.
And they want them back. Read their writings. They want the welfare state, but they do not want for minorities and immigrants.
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/4/4/15164598/alt-right-single-payer-health-care-trump
From link:
They do not believe that their monies should go to minorities and immigrants (work with me here.) A society with declining ahem native population and a rising immigrant population that is swamping said native population should not be entitled to the welfare state created by those noble natives. Remember, this is a middle class revolution.
The LIbertarian “by my own bootstraps” outlook is sooooo 2011. This is the 4/8chan, Reddit, Voat, PUA/Return of Kings generation. What they want to be is not Steve Jobs, but Don Draper. What they actually are is a bunch of NEET white-nationalists and sexual dysfunctionals (see Don Black, millenialwoes, Roosh V, Roissy/Heartiste, Paul Elam etc.
Nevertheles, their methods are will be the same as the 2011 Libertarians – militarism (private not state though), state police, migration restrictions and white man welfare (you will notice that they both love space programs.). Anyway. we’ll see how it goes.
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@satanforce
That was some article!
So the racist alt-right finally realized that they will have to give something to get something. In their own way they are rebelling against the neo-liberal Republican nuttiness that has prevailed in the Beltway for the past forty years.
This passage seemed to sum up their position:
It is a shrewd strategy. Any group that can deliver universal health care (and the social and economic benefits that flow from the program) will have the solid loyalty of the majority of the American population. The current system is a huge millstone around the necks of the American people.
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And I really do like Trump. But liking someone doesn’t mean that you should vote for them. Politics should never be about personality, but track records, pragmatism and policies. I would not have voted for either Trump, or Clinton. T
Trump sounded like a patriot, but his deceitfulness, his Zionism and his inexperience would have had disqualified him for me.
Clinton is slightly less inexperienced, but an incompetent and a Bankster. A victory for her would have had sent the wrong idea to the Democrat Party bigwigs. They have need to reform since Carter and Mondale.
@Afrofem
https://www.vox.com/world/2017/3/13/14698812/bernie-trump-corbyn-left-wing-populism
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“I think that you are wrong about this. On the American right-wing, only the Tea Party, and Ron Paul followers are “libertarian.”
That is how the MSM describes libertarians but Ron Paul was a social conservative. Many Ron Paul supporters went for Trump and the alt right. Libertariansim is a distinct idiology with a left and right.
I’m talking about right libertarians and their cross over into the Alt right.
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@satanforce toyota navi/electronics nothing compared especially to ford!
dell? them things take a freakin beating, i had one repair job on a dell desktop that was in bull’s basement and it had a watermark about 16″ up the case, new ram, power supply, hard drive and optical drive, that mother board booted up!
and dell laptops? spilled coffee all through them, water, they boot up too once dry
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uh everything is off-shored, from what i’m told you can walk around in mumbai and it’s all american brand names on the buildings, had a job recently the router configs were done in india, actually a job for a british company too, not too long ago, they just building everything overseas and let us do final assembly the corporate don’t want to pay up , if you ask me the banks got a logjam of money thats where it’s all at,
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if you can’t get stampies and medical assistance you either have a job or need a ssd check and therefore medicare
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let me swing my troll’s axe, it was reagan cutting off the mental health citizens and it got worse, should be a social worker for who ever needs it, could help addiction and suicide, what else is more important?
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oh wow india calling ihiretech.com fieldengineer.com also mostly indian back office, well they seem to have caught the pass there, i mean you really can’t fault that H1B original intended purpose notwithstanding
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east indian that is south asian i suppose as tyrion said ‘not sure of the nomenclature’!
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they will call you from india
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@ satanforce
Thanks for the link to the last Vox article you mentioned upthread.
I agree with the writer’s central point:
However, left unsaid in that article was the fact that the majority of voters, left, right and center are increasingly disaffected by the political dealings of the transnational elite. In the book, Third Wave, writer and futurist Alvin Toffler described an international consortium of bankers, oligarchs and technocrats whom he termed the “transnational elite”. He described them as a global group that operate in tight networks with similar educational backgrounds, professions and values. They have no allegiance to nation-states and believe in a wholly privatized economic and social future.
To me, that describes the motivations of the Democrats in the USA and New Labor in the UK. They still talk leftwing populist politics but dance to the tune of the global elite. They are about serving the people at the top of the global heap, and letting the rest of us slide into oblivion. Increasing numbers of people see through their phony left populism and tune them out.
I feel the populists and nativists on the right are deluding themselves. What will their societies will look like if the parties who claim to represent them hold power for a decade or more. The people the article described as, “petty bourgeoisie (like shopkeepers) or low-educated, fairly high-income people (like successful plumbers).” If they succeed in biting off their noses to spite their faces will they finally breathe freely or just be horribly disfigured?
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This is an interesting piece that looks at Molyneux and other libertarians in the “liberty movement”.
It is written by a libertarian leaning conservative.
He does a good job dismantling race realism but his last paragraph shows his own blindness to white supremecy within American history.
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@ michaeljonbarker
Thanks for sharing that article.
I placed a response comment on the “HBD is fake” thread to avoid more topic drift.
It can be found here:
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If anyone is unclear about Kiwi’s motives, this comment should set them straight:
http://www.bigwowo.com/2017/08/justice-department-may-eliminate-affirmative-action/#comment-327807
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“Kiwi used to be great” but has devolved. Poor naive child, the whole point of the Ivy League is to recruit loyal servants, not to make masters. I’m happy for him because he found a home. Why not ignore him?
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@ Kiwi
“Blacks want the same thing as Whites and other races. They care only about themselves and no one else, which explains why they see nothing wrong with policies that favor themselves and harm others.”
So is this the same for everyone? Do Asians want the same thing as Whites and other races? Do Asians care only about themselves and no one else? Do Asians see nothing wrong with policies that favor themselves and harm others?
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@ Kiwi
Do you have anything to offer that doesn’t consist of lumping groups of people into stereotypes?
The black-white focus of race relations in the U.S. definitely creates a situation where other people of color are often forgotten about. No argument here.
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Afrofem, next time you are tempted to mention Kiwi, resist it. Kiwi, go back to bigwhatever.
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So apparently Kiwi believes Asians are ignored or overlooked when it comes to discussions about how to better ethnic relations in the U.S., because the discussion is often dominated by the white/black dynamic. I see where he’s coming from, but there’s a historic reason for said dominance.
As for the comment Afrofem mentioned:
It’s telling that most black Americans speak of just wanting equal status with their white counterparts, but here’s Kiwi vouching for Asian dominance over white Americans. Telling.
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@ Kiwi
The same argument so many whites use to justify discounting or outright ignoring black concerns. After all, blacks have no right to agitate for change until they change their own communities, amirite?
The concept of “victimhood” is a convenient scapegoat for dominant groups to tell their minority groups to shut the fu*k up and sit down.
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“gro jo’s comment is rich because it shows that he prefers Blacks serve Whites since he obviously supports Asian quotas.”
So, you’re a mind reader now? Just because you go to an Ivy League school doesn’t make you “master” material. Heard of Priscilla Chan-Zuckerberg? You’d stand a better chance acting as matchmaker for girls like her than waste your parents’ money on Ivy League tuition. I know that pimping Asian women to White men might emasculate you, but it’s the best chance you’ve got, so get over it. Besides, Asiatics are some of the biggest whore-mongers of this world. That’s no quota. Christ, I haven’t been this vicious in a long time!
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@ gro jo
“…I haven’t been this vicious in a long time!”
So true. You have been far too nice for far too long. LOL!
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@ Mack Lyons
“The concept of “victimhood” is a convenient scapegoat…”
Those words are rich coming from professional victims like Kiwi and his “WOWO” crowd. All they do is wallow in self-professed victimhood: White people ignore them, Black people are undeserving wretches who get in the way of their Ivy League/World Mastery ambitions, Leftists want something horrible called “social justice”. Oh, the unfairness of it all!
Meanwhile, that petulant crowd live comfortable lives in stable communities. They are well educated. They are employed. Perhaps one in a thousand has ever been accosted by the police for walking, driving or purchasing shirts in a store while Asian-American. The Toddler in Chief has scrupulously avoided criticizing them, while trashing everyone else———–and they are still unhappy.
Perhaps it is time they make some changes in their own communities to increase their sense of gratitude and fulfillment instead of projecting their insecurities on Black people. We have enough to deal with on a daily basis.
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@ gro jo
“Afrofem, next time you are tempted to mention Kiwi, resist it. “
What is telling is that he was over here like a shot, writing his usual Asian victimhood smack.
Like the other Abagond bashers, he can’t stop himself from monitoring the site and adding his two cents (okay, half a penny in Kiwi’s case) about the “Stasi-like” atmosphere in the comments section.
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Afrofem.said.
“Perhaps it is time they make some changes in their own communities to increase their sense of gratitude and fulfillment instead of projecting their insecurities on Black people.”
I think this statment is a little broad brushed. The majority who come here are grateful.
The last sentence describes Kiwi.
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Afrofem: I think of the Harry Potter movie when the characters don’t want to invoke the name of the character Voldemort he who shall not be named. That’s the way I think of Kiwi we shall not invoke his name. I always felt he lurks on this site just like others who have been banned or just stop posting for whatever reason.
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@ michaeljonbarker
Good point. No one person speaks for the entire Asian American community, certainly not a callow youth like Kiwi.
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@ Mary Burrell
Some lurk and others have moved on. It is apparent that Kiwi still lurks on this “devolved” site.
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@ Kiwi
“Do you notice the hypocrisy in calling out Asians for making generalizations”
Not Asians plural — just you.
You used to actually be interested in productive conversation and understood that reasonable people could disagree on some points.
Now you seem to only be interested in throwing bombs of vitriol to see how many people you can hurt or outrage.
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@ MJB @Afrofem
Not only does he not speak for the whole community, but the bigwowo denizens regularly deride other Asian Americans whose politics and opinions they disagree with.
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Whoever that Chr person was was calling it what it was. Asians like kiwi are so consumed with people acknowledged by white people. As if ivy league schools are going to make white people notice you. They cry about Affirmative action, but do Asians not also benefit from it? If it goes away and whites male it where none of them get in despite scores, then what will they Say? ” Oh the white man don’t want me to succeed!!”. Waiting on the white man they could have been had several damn schools built for their community.
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*being acknowledged *make
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@ Solitaire
“he not speak for the whole community, but the bigwowo denizens regularly deride other Asian Americans whose politics and opinions they disagree with.”
Agreed. There seems to be a large portion of the Asian American community they disagree with: feminists, progressives, truth tellers and pragmatists.
They seem to be an Asian American affiliate of the so-called Alt-Right. This comment is typical hyperbole from the headmaster himself:
http://www.bigwowo.com/2017/06/fear-and-nonsense-at-evergreen-state/#comment-327659
“…shockwaves of fear throughout large populations… [!?!]”
No wonder Kiwi comes here with weak, muddled, mendacious arguments. He wallows in those falsehoods there on a regular basis.
It is far better to be considered “devolved” than to have not evolved in the first place.
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@ Sharina
It is good to hear from you again.
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Well, I don’t really comment on here as often as I used to when I was in high school, but I still enjoy reading Abagond’s blog posts. My reasoning for why I don’t comment on here as much is due to the fact that I am preoccupied with my studies in college. Also, I don’t have the same tolerance for racist trolls and other disruptive trolls that I had come across on here in the past. The endless trolling and frequent deflection of the topic was what eventually turned me off from commenting on here as often as I did.
Personally, I believe that Abagond’s blog is still a great blog and had evolved tremendously since I first came on here. Overall, I highly encourage him to continue blogging regards of the opinions of others.
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@Sharinalr: Hey Shirina good to read you.
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@Adeen: Good to read you good luck with your studies.
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Sharina made a very good point here:
When the state universities of California had to cease their affirmative action policies in new student acceptance, the number of Asian Americans at those schools did increase markedly. But it is a mistake to assume the same result would occur nationally.
It is widely believed in academic circles that the UC system is setting unofficial quotas on Asian American acceptance rates. I cannot prove this, but looking at the numbers, it does seem like there should have been an even greater increase in Asian American students if admission was based solely on academic excellence and achievement. The UC system seems to be taking steps to ensure the white student population does not fall below a certain threshold.
California has a very large Asian American population compared to the rest of the mainland. There would have been trouble had the Asian American numbers not gone up at the UC schools after the end of affirmative action. This is not true in other states. Should this become a national change, the numbers of Asian American students will probably decrease at many public universities across the country.
Most white people who are against affirmative action say it is because they think the best students should get in regardless of any other factors, but they believe those students will be white. Confirmation bias will do the rest.
Kiwi talks about other minorities throwing Asian Americans under the bus, but it seems to me that those Asian Americans who advocate for the end of affirmative action are perfectly willing to throw other minorities under the bus for what they think will be their own gain. They are also perfectly willing to throw Pacific Islanders and underrepresented populations within the Asian American demographic underneath that same bus.
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@Afrofem
I believe this whole people of color alliance and solidarity is nothing but a fluke. Everyone wants Black American people especially Black American women to be there for them when Whites shut them down out economic mobility and social climbing. Yet they will get rid of us once they reach their goals. Kiwi’s comments just illustrates this scenario. And it isn’t his place as an Asian American man to try to talk down to Black Americans about how they can solve the problems in their communities. You don’t see me going on sites geared towards Asians and telling them how to solve the problems in their communities. I don’t even think about Asians so I wouldn’t even dare entertain visiting such spaces. Such condescending behavior I have to speak out against.
This isn’t an indication of hatred but my way of trying to set boundaries between American Black people and other so called people of color. For far too long, other minority groups have used the minimal resources Black American achieved through the Civil Rights Movement to advance themselves without showing any appreciation for the struggle or history of the people. I am also tired of the anti Black mentality and superiority complex that I have seen and witnessed from Hispanics, people from various Asian groups, Middle Eastern people, Native Americans, etc. I highly suggest more American Black people focus on themselves and improving their own communities and groups instead than being so inclusive of everyone else that wouldn’t do the same for you
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@Adeen
”This isn’t an indication of hatred but my way of trying to set boundaries between American Black people and other so called people of color.”
Well, what about people who are not American, or Black, or even ‘people of colour’?
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@ Solitaire
“…it seems to me that those Asian Americans who advocate for the end of affirmative action are perfectly willing to throw other minorities under the bus for what they think will be their own gain.
That dovetails with a comment made on the Three Pillars of White Supremacy thread:
“Chinese Americans, in particular, are a scant 2.9 percent of California’s population, yet make up 15 percent or nearly half of all Asian American admissions in the UC system. According to the website REeappropriate.co:
http://reappropriate.co/2014/12/filipinos-are-underrepresented-at-most-competitive-of-uc-campuses-blockblum-iamnotyourwedge/
It is other Asian American/Pacific Islander groups such as Filipinos, Vietnamese, Cambodians and Samoans that face difficulty in enrolling in the UC system, particularly the most selective campuses such as UCLA, Berkeley and San Diego.”
In short, students of Northeast Asian descent are overrepresented in the UC system. They are elbowing out Southeast Asian and Pacific Islander descent students while blaming Black and Latinx students under the umbrella of Affirmative Action.
There are also long-term economic trends that have affected all students and their families in California and throughout the nation. Those include state funding cutbacks and rising foreign student enrollment.
One major elephant in the room is the commitment by university administrators and state legislators to maintain White majorities in American universities. You summed up that reality on that same thread:
The greatest irony about Kiwi’s angst over Affirmative Action is that it was outlawed in California, Washington and Michigan over a decade ago. It has no bearing on enrollments in his state.
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@Afrofem and Mary
How have y’all been?
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A Russian Nagpo
What about them? The statement you quoted of Adeen is not confusing in the slightest.
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@ Adeen
“I am also tired of the anti Black mentality and superiority complex that I have seen and witnessed from Hispanics, people from various Asian groups, Middle Eastern people, Native Americans, etc.”
I have dealt with those attitudes and behaviors for years also. They are infuriating and disheartening.
While I think it is wise to maintain reasonable boundaries, I feel it is counterproductive to completely wall yourself off from potential friends and allies. It means exercising discernment. Paying attention to what people do and not what they say. Also taking the time to get to know individuals. Most will still infuriate you with their attitudes and actions, but it is possible to find sparkling gems among the stones you encounter.
I agree that Black people should “focus on themselves and improving their own communities and groups”. We have a lot of internal work to do. Forming independent communities is paramount. After all, it is difficult to be in healthy interdependent relationships with others if you are not first independent.
Good luck with your studies, Adeen.
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@ Sharina
Hanging in there….
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@ Russian whatever your name is
My remark is not geared towards you. You don’t have a dog in this fight so stop trying to include yourself in something that doesn’t have anything to do with your livelihood.
@Afro Gem
I can definitely see where you are coming from. My point isn’t to scare away potential allies but to start building boundaries where other races of people aren’t invading our spaces, taking over and exploiting us. I already see too much of that with the Kardashians appropriating Black women’s features and style and Rachel Dolezal passibg herself off with as a Black woman. None of this stuff would have happened if more Black Americans and other Diasporan Black people made sure that they politely interacted with non Blacks and didn’t allow them to exploit them for economic and social mobility. Black Americans and Diasporan Black people are way too inclusive much to their own detriment.
If one does find a genuine non Black ally, make sure to speak to that particular person about how to respect the culture and not exploit it for their own good. Non Black allies do exist, but I highly suggest being on the look out for opportunists.
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@Sharinalr: I am hanging in there how are you?
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@Adeen
Are you sure you are really aware of what is included into and what is excluded from my livelyhood?
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@ Herneith
Comment deleted for remarks about another commenter’s sex life.
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“@ gro jo
One of the traits I love best about you is how honest you are about your feelings toward other races. You’ve abased Asians and especially Asian women more than any White commenter has on this blog. Your hatred was always there. The least I can do is take credit for showing the world your true character.”
Thanks Kiwi, coming from you, preserver of Asian women’s chastity, that means a lot to me. By the way, do you still find Asian women repulsive? You know, they need a little TLC from time to time. Are you up for the task, or should they go through life unloved? Thanks again, do keep in touch. I was worried that you might have harmed yourself, due to the moral pollution contact with us, mere mortals, entails for such morally superior being as yourself.
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Kiwi said,
“Blacks victimize themselves more than anyone else”
What white people think.
The Root had a good artical challanging that assumption.
http://www.theroot.com/why-we-never-talk-about-black-on-black-crime-an-answer-1819092337?utm_medium=sharefromsite&utm_source=The_Root_facebook
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@Adeen stated, ”This isn’t an indication of hatred but my way of trying to set boundaries between American Black people and other so called people of color.”
@A Russian Nagpo then asked: “Well, what about people who are not American, or Black, or even ‘people of colour’?
@A Russian Nagpo, just in case you are experiencing comprehension issues this morning. Adeen answered your unnecessary question within the very next sentence of the same post that you’re referring to when she stated:
“For far too long, other minority groups have used the minimal resources Black American achieved through the Civil Rights Movement to advance themselves without showing any appreciation for the struggle or history of the people.” – Adeen
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“Let’s face it. Blacks want the same thing as Whites and other races. They care only about themselves and no one else, which explains why they see nothing wrong with policies that favor themselves and harm others.” – Kiwi
“Abagond has yet to muster the will to address this issue, even after multiple prompts by jefe and me. People like you are simply part of the problem, always falling back on the dogma of favoring Blacks over Asians.” – Kiwi
“It’s very telling when Asians fight against policies that discriminate against them and their biggest opponents turn out to be White liberals, Blacks, Hispanics, etc among others.” – Kiwi
“Do you notice the hypocrisy in calling out Asians for making generalizations while ignoring Blacks who do the same exact thing over and over?” – Kiwi
“Black American leaders similarly have found a scapegoat in blaming White racism for all their problems. The fact that some of it is real doesn’t change that racial scapegoating of out-groups has become a convenient political tool for distracting the masses from problems within their own communities.” – Kiwi
Sigh! Move it along now, no need to respond here folks, it’s the same tiresome individual experiencing another bout of empty, episodic, delusional rants without even as much of a thread of evidence to support his position.
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“Abagond has yet to muster the will to address this issue, even after multiple prompts by jefe and me.” – Kiwi
This is a very interesting comment!
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@ Kiwi
I didn’t realize there was a litmus test to be deemed worthy of your time. From what I know about the trial, it does look like there was racial bias on the part of the jury, and I do condemn it. Such injustice is never right.
Do you have more hurdles for me to jump, or can we go back to discussing affirmative action?
Or was this just a sad maneuver on your part to avoid admitting you have no salient response to the points Afrofem and I made regarding underrepresention in higher ed among certain AAPI groups?
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kiwi! 🙂
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