White fragility (1970s- ) is that thing where White Americans get highly upset when you try to talk to them about racism, particularly their own racism. It can lead to discomfort, anger, guilt, fear, sometimes even violence or murder. Instead of listening and learning, they defend their self-image. It is a part of colour-blind racism. It leads to tropes like the R-word, White feelings, White fauxpologies, derailing and the tone argument.
The term comes from Robin DiAngelo, a professor of multicultural education at Westfield State University. She has a PhD in race relations and White racial identity. Since the 1990s she has been doing diversity training, coming across White fragility all the time. She uses the idea of White fragility to help fellow Whites understand what it is they are doing wrong and why.
At the heart of White fragility is what Whites mislearned from the civil rights movement of the 1960s:
- Racism is personal, not institutional or structural. It is caused by bad people, not by how society is built.
- Racism is a matter of intentions. If your intentions are good, you cannot possibly be racist, despite whatever ill effect you actions may have on people of colour.
- To be a racist is to be a completely terrible, evil person. There are no degrees of racism. It is all or nothing, either-or (dichotomous, black-and-white thinking).
This is why when you point out a White person’s racism, they see it as a threat to their self-image, which they protect at all costs. It is why they make it about their intentions. It is why they give such lame apologies. It is why they are blind to their own racism.
It gets worse: Racism calls into question the justice of their position in society. That threatens their self-image as good and moral people yet further. It goes against the messages US society constantly feeds them of what good and wonderful people they are. Not just Hollywood films, fashion magazines and high school history books, but even the fact, say, that Whites tend to live in better neighbourhoods and go to better schools than Blacks.
They want all the advantages of living in a racist society, but do not want to face up to the fact that that is what they are doing. Because that would mean they are terrible, evil people.
And US society is built so that most Whites never have to face up to that fact. About 75% of them live in Whitelandia (my word, not DiAngelo’s), that place you see on television: White neighbourhoods, White schools, White churches, White families, White friends, White teachers, White managers, White magazines – all White everything.
And, in my experience, even those who do not live in Whitelandia – probably most of the White commenters on this blog – even many of them still have some White fragility. Because they are still caught in the same bind: no matter how many people of colour are in their family or neighbourhood, they still base their self-image on lies.
– Abagond, 2015.
See also:
- colour-blind racism
- My own take on White fragility:
- causes
- effects
- psychopathic racial personality
551
That’s a perfect picture to illustrate this article!
LikeLike
It is funny that I was thinking of this just a few hours ago but from a slightly different perspective. You see, the destructive behavior of whites towards black people is absolutely irrefutable. It’s basically constant across time and place. Whether we jumped back 200 years, 60 years, or stayed put; whether we went to South Africa, Congo, or the United States we’d find evidence of whites systematically destroying black people.
Yet whites, in general, behave as if this isn’t the case. In any analysis of present conditions, they become deliberately oblivious of context. In Whitelandia, they’re not only physically separated from those who’re not white but from their own group’s past and, therefore, any causal relationship between the past and the present racial situation.
I agree with you that maintenance of a group self-image that is untenable in the light of all the evidence is part of the reason for the behavior we have noted. However, I’d go a little further because one’s self-image is also how you want others to perceive you. In other words, you want your self-concept and others’ perception of you to coincide otherwise you’ll experience discomfort. The two are symbiotic. Your self-image can be affected by what others think of you but it will also motivate you to act in ways that guide others to assess you just the way you desire.
If we can agree that the most notable achievement of Europeans is the creation of a global empire then we also have to consider its establishment and perpetuation as the primary function of their culture. It’s no small feat and it couldn’t have occurred without unflinching commitment. From that perspective, the way others see them is more politically important than their self-image.
When they “discovered” new lands in the past they knew they were going to plunder, pillage, and “claim” others’ possessions for their countries. However, they didn’t immediately share that with the native inhabitants. Instead, they gave contaminated gifts, played games of fake diplomacy, and signed treaties that they never intended to honor. After the duplicity became obvious some indigenous people reacted with horror that the “white man spoke with a forked tongue”. Of course, the white man’s intention all along was to create false appearances in order to mislead their adversaries into unsound decisions. They had to project an image of themselves (eg. as trustworthy) that was entirely false. Acceptance of this false image, particularly by oppressed people, is absolutely necessary if the white/European global empire is to be maintained. This is why I say that others’ perception of whites is more politically important than their self-image.
However, as noted, the way others see you and the way you see yourself are symbiotic. White group self-image must coincide with the false image they projected and it will be bolstered when others treat them as if it were true. Conversely, if you “attack” their self-image, thereby triggering white fragility, that also implies that you are not fooled by the politically important false image. I believe it is inctinctively understood that such “woke” individuals pose a threat to white dominance and so whites react badly to them. After all, an important instrument in the tool-chest of the psychopath is their ability to pretend to be what they are not.
Which finally brings me to the perspective from which I was looking at white fragility: that of Dr. Bobby Wright’s Pychopathic Racial Personality. I haven’t read the book in its entirety but the basic idea is that white group behavior towards others is psychopathic using the accepted psychological definitions of psychopathy. I was reading an excerpt in which he said that psychopaths, despite having no scruples, get angry if their integrity is questioned. After I read that I thought of white fragility right away. It is a manifestation of a pscyhopathic group personality which doesn’t want its “cover” blown. If the psychopath’s potential victims see him for who he really is, that will impair his ability to deceive and manipulate. Therefore he becomes angry when a useful weapon in his arsenal is threatened. White fragility, which causes whites to become uncomfortable or angry if their racist world order is discussed, is the imprint on the individuals of the psychopathic group personality’s protestation that it is blameless.
It’s amazing how you can think of something immediately and take a million words to express it and share it with someone else. Hopefully I got the point across.
LikeLike
It’s amusing how white people insist black people and other POC are too “sensitive” regarding racism, but they have an apoplectic fit when you call them out on it.
LikeLiked by 1 person
If only we could create some kind of simulator for White people to see the world as a oppressed minority.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Yes, the soap bubble is an apt metaphor as well as a common practice of people like that to blow bubbles up your butt if you give them a chance.
LikeLike
@Origin
If you write a book, I will buy it.
LikeLike
@ Origin
Excellent comment!
@ All
Here is my post on Bobby Wright’s ideas about psychopathic racial personality:
I added the link to the See Also section.
LikeLike
@Origin
I hope you don’t mind if I share this. You laid it out perfectly.
LikeLike
@ Abagond
Excellent post.
LikeLike
@ Abagond
Yes. Excellent post as usual. Thank you.
@ Origin
Also, brilliant comment. Standing ovation. I always get something out of your comments. Thank you.
LikeLike
@Abagond, I think the best way to agree with you is not by mere words but by posting your pieces elsewhere and making every attempt to educate other white folks–because due to white fragility, which at times makes whites (even liberals) deaf to black voices, change will not happen any other way than if the message comes either from or through a white messenger.
To my fellow whites: If you can, I would like to recommend you please read this post as well:
http://amptoons.com/blog/2005/12/02/how-not-to-be-insane-when-accused-of-racism/
LikeLike
Origin’s comment is what i mean when i say white infimacy. You view us as permanently lesser for not suffering enough/ being from Europe (although, you’d say having white skin instead of being European if this blog was going on 100 years later, but that’s besides the point).
I understand no culture can be perfect, and whiteness is not a culture, but please, tell me why all white cultures are the worst abominations of mankind. Can’t we be equitous (adjective form of equity) to you all? Saying benefiting is evil is a load because a) we will never be able to control that, and b) you are implying i should live in poverty and get profiled by cops, among other things.
Let’s say i accepted “my” history is just scumminess, but you’d still view me as lesser. So why bother? I am entitled to be accepted by GOOD people.
Let’s say i distanced myself from white history’s scumminess, but you’d call me out saying “ALL white people” or “Don’t run from your past”.
Of course you hurt my feelings, but i’m more angry at the fact i’m supposed to work with people who people who view me as literal human garbage or those who rape, steal, and murder for a nonsense fear.
tl;dr No point in doing anything but being in a cryogenic freezing chamber until racism is over, i have a choice between people who are garbage and those who treat me like garbage. Just stop lying when you say “i don’t hate all white people”.
—
For the record, i get behind being civil when being called out regardless if this criticism is accurate. Provided said person is calling me out out of genuine criticism (will forgive) rather than utter hatred (won’t forgive). If you won’t forgive me for the slightest of offenses, why bother? I’m not omnipotent, super-duper, strong-and-wise guy.
This response only exists because many here think whites aren’t really humans, just cancer cells.
LikeLike
If you do not come from privilege and end up at an elite institution, that switch in circumstance does a lot to make one understand. Now, the understanding is not unity with reality, but it’s enough to analogize or to form a reference point.
Your academic ability, your creativity, etc. simply do not matter in the face of an entirely different culture. You are an outsider, and that’s that.
LikeLike
@Uriel More Euro-American victimology! Is it possible to just read, reflect and attempt to understand other people instead of seeing the comments of others as a personal attack?
LikeLike
@Afrofem
“Is it possible to just read, reflect and attempt to understand other people instead of seeing the comments of others as a personal attack?”—I don’t think many white people can.
LikeLike
I can’t understand non-literal messages very well, my apologies.
LikeLike
White people don’t mess with me LOL. I don’t play that. For example, they will try to make slick comments about my hair since I wear an afro like “oh it’s so wild” and I will say something like “well straight stringy hair” ain’t for me. The look on their faces is priceless.
LikeLike
@abagond, Open Minded Observer, taotesan
Thanks. At the time, especially being a bit tired, I was honestly wondering whether the ideas had come out coherently.
@sharina
I dont’ mind at all. It’s through sharing ideas that we’ll hopefully build a strong counter-culture against white supremacy racism and eventually beat it.
LikeLike
“I dont’ mind at all. It’s through sharing ideas that we’ll hopefully build a strong counter-culture against white supremacy racism and eventually beat it.”
—————————–
While I immensely admire those that possess the ability to form words eloquently and efficiently, four hundred years worth of WORDS written to white people have taught me it’s going to take far more than words and ideas to finally put this beast to rest.
Words alone will not end racism/white-supremacy! But maybe with some good ideas added racism/white-supremacy might come to a halt in say, 2,500 years from now. LOL (<—Sarcasm)
Let me say this again.
Words are not going to end racism/white-supremacy.
I'm not against words. I'm against the idea that words are our greatest/only weapon.
Our greatest (but yet unformed) weapon is to learn how to love/respect ourselves – and each other. If we can master this, we can master everything and anything.
LikeLike
No, not words and certainly not words alone. I don’t think I implied that but if I did it wasn’t intentional. Words are part of a means to an end. I spoke about ideas and a counter-culture not just words. But if we want to build a community then words will have to be one of our tools. Even your belief that words are not enough was expressed in words.
LikeLike
By the way, I’m not writing or saying anything primarily to white people. We will not transform white people as a group. For the most part, the white people who post here think more about race than most yet we often notice what abagond calls the Roissy syndrome. They respond to a post demonstrating the very tendencies the post is pointing out. If they’re the more “enlightened” ones, and they probably are, it should impress on us how futile it is to appeal to the white race for justice.
However, if you have an idea for a way to build a culture of respect and among black people without talking to each other I’m all ears.
LikeLike
I have Robin DiAngelo’s book, ‘What Does It Mean To Be White?’, in my home library. It’s a very informative book.
What’s interesting is that overt and covert racist Whites love to throw in their Black-allies like Larry Elder and Jesse Lee Peterson (as well as their books) at me while discussing Black issues, but I don’t fall for their tricks because I bring up Whites like DiAngelo, Tim Wise, Elijah Hamilton and Jane Elliott (as well as their books). After hearing names like DiAngelo and Wise the white fragility manifests itself.
LikeLike
@origin
“White group self-image must coincide with the false image they projected and it will be bolstered when others treat them as if it were true. Conversely, if you “attack” their self-image, thereby triggering white fragility, that also implies that you are not fooled by the politically important false image. I believe it is inctinctively understood that such “woke” individuals pose a threat to white dominance and so whites react badly to them. After all, an important instrument in the tool-chest of the psychopath is their ability to pretend to be what they are not.”
Love this so much. “White Supremacy” not only depends on the power of whites but also on us believing that white people are actually superior. If we can all decolonize our minds and see that white people are just human beings whose culture allows them to do everything in their power to gain power, then we can totally paralyze white supremacy. What keeps white supremacy going?
1: Us believing that the most handsome man or woman can only be white (In Brazil more than 40% of the population identify as part African yet all beauty magazines have white faces representing beauty-also in South Africa)
2: White educators,professors and even preachers are usually given more attention because people assume they are more wise. Yet they are mostly to blame for preserving white supremacy. (anyone heard of the curse of Ham)
3: Media. when I type ‘Africa’ on YouTube and Google search, all I get are documentaries and articles about wild animals, corruption, famine, poverty and the list goes on. The heroes and heroines on television are usually white and most do-gooders are also white. Blacks appear as decorations (Source of White psychopathy). I hope Nigerias Nollywood gets even bigger.
4: Limiting ourselves to the definitions of us by white supremacists.
Whites worship themselves and that’s why a black Pope is highly unlikely.
“I haven’t read the book in its entirety but the basic idea is that white group behavior towards others is psychopathic using the accepted psychological definitions of psychopathy. I was reading an excerpt in which he said that psychopaths, despite having no scruples, get angry if their integrity is questioned. After I read that I thought of white fragility right away. It is a manifestation of a pscyhopathic group personality which doesn’t want its “cover” blown.”
You hit the nail on the head. Its like a rapist who rapes a girl and when she cries, he beats her up and tells her that she liked it. Blaming the victim. By the way they raped Africa, America, Asia and they still think they are the best things that have ever existed.
LikeLike
But can a privileged people give up that privilege without a fight? The British had to be forced out of their colonies before they gave up their privilege.
LikeLike
I think other cultures like Indian and Chinese have turned this need Whites have to maintain a positive self image to their advantage. They play along allowing Whites to feel positive about themselves while catching up through education and amassing wealth generation by generation through home ownership, small businesses and professional careers as White kids fall behind academically. They know history just as well as anyone else but they don’t spend time trying to convince White people of their errors. They play along while learning and teaching their kids to play the game better. Why can’t we do that too? The rules aren’t hidden anymore and Whites make mistakes in their own game, especially the young ones because most believe the hype and just don’t try hard anymore (just look at who gets STEM degrees these days). We know how institutional racism works. Why not train each other to beat it? We know how cops behave and how the criminal justice system works. Why be baited (read ‘arrest proof yourself’)? With the internet you don’t have to rely only on bad school systems to learn anymore. With Etrade you don’t have to rely on a brokers to invest anymore. We know that wealth is built through home ownership and we can get FHA loans now. Why not look to buy property as soon as possible instead of renting for years? Let’s focus on solutions people. Let’s look for answers! Yes, the deck is stacked and the margin for error is slim but we can still be successful as a people and win! It’s not hopeless. With all due respect Abagond, this is where sites like this fall short. A lot of identifying the problems (which is good and I have certainly learned a lot) but not enough about solutions which is just depressing. Just appealing to Whites to change their ways is folly as a primary strategy (not that you Abagond do this but some commenters here embrace that as strategy). You may change some minds around the edges but that’s all. We have to fix things ourselves as indviduals, then as families and communities. If we hate the idea of White Saviors then why are we waiting on them?
LikeLike
And speaking of beating the system please read this book ‘Arrest Proof Yourself’ http://www.amazon.com/Arrest-Proof-Yourself-Dale-C-Carson/dp/1613748043
And here is a free PDF of it:
Click to access Arrest%20Proof%20Yourself.pdf
Abagond (and others) I would love to get your take on it.
LikeLike
@ LookingForAnswers
Your comments are OFF TOPIC on this thread. It would be way better if you put them on the appropriate threads:
LikeLike
@ Abagond
My bad.
LikeLike
@Abagond
Why not tackle how Indians and the Chinese use the ‘white supremacy ideology’ to their advantage.
LikeLike
gotta be careful with this one, because if you get over it, you can get too ‘chummy’ especially with a hood pass and you might say the n word or something
LikeLike
the corporate culture has everyone on pins and needles so to speak to be politically correct!
LikeLike
@LookingForAnswers
I responded to you here so as to not go offtopic.
LikeLike
sorry just had to
LikeLike
@villagewriter, because certain toes might be stepped on. My guess.
LikeLike
@ Anne and Villagewriter
Did I stumble onto something? Do tell.
LikeLike
..@Origin, the fabulousness that flows from your mouth, though!!! 😀
LikeLike
SnailHail said:
Something analogous has been done. You may recall that abagond did a post a while ago about a young white guy who took something to change his skin colour and then spent a short while “as a black person”. It may have given him some insight, but the value of any kind of simulation is limited by the participant’s knowledge that it is only temporary. Privileged real life will be there to give them a hug afterwards.
sharinalr said:
Neither do I.
In my experience, the white sensitivity and denial arises even when it is a white person suggesting that white racism is ubiquitous.
LikeLike
Great analysis on white fragility, Abagond! Sidenote: Do you think that there are any effective, practical ways in which POC can successfully navigate through this system of “white fragility” (and the damaging consequences it brings) that seems to affect almost all facets of their lives?
LikeLike
Hey everybody, I just went through a 2 months-long journey in the scientific racism blogosphere. They call themselves HBD (Human Biodiversity) race realists, hereditarianism. They also make internal nuances within their movement, some call themselves Liberal Race Realists, others soft or hard HBDers.
I would be interested in sharing my experience as I managed to become an author on one of these blogs. I got to know the owner quite personally and he thought a few days after a couple days of commenting that I would bring an interesting Black Frenchman contradictory point of view.
LikeLike
I think you will enjoy commenting here more, Afro.
It’s possible that I can endlessly dish out and take abuse on HBD blogs because it is fundamentally different for me than it is for you.
For me, it’s like yelling at the people who are at a family barbecue and calling them retards (which I do firmly believe HBDers are). I don’t care. I don’t get mad. It’s fun and funny to make fun of them.
I can’t imagine what it’s like for you. You are confronting real animus. And IMHO you shouldn’t take it on the chin, either.
LikeLike
@Afrosapiens
I have encountered them and their arguments are idealism based on myths about white supremacy. They have recycled arguments from the past and polished here and there to make them look new-without any success. Seeing the kind of damage America has done to African Americans by branding them as animals and branding Muslims as terrorists, I cannot take race realists for granted. Their ideas can still be used to destroy Africa to serve the rich in the west. American army has bases already in Congo, Liberia and I know they will set one in Ethiopia too. Somalia, Kenya and Uganda have all discovered oil and then there will be war.
LikeLike
Nice to meet you guys, nice to have you swank in another context. However I won’t comment more here either, I’m starting to work soon and I only geek on my laptop when my girlfriend’s not here. She would make so much fun at me doing that silly stuff 🙂 on the HBD sphere.
Hey swank, can you make sure Robert knows I’m extremely pissed off that he keeps talking about me. Just tell him, he banned me that’s OK but he can’t keep on calling me names and lying about me as he does regularly. We’re not middle school girls…
LikeLike
I see this blog is about African American issues, I can’t say too much because I don’t know the topic enough. You probably noticed it, I almost only got in the debates when someone blamed one group’s situation on their (West)African genetics.
LikeLike
After taking a quick look at the blog, I see it’s not a place for me. I’m genuinely sympathetic towards African Americans, some news I come across almost bring me to tears and I won’t deny all the oppression that is going on against them. But similarily to what some HBDers would say, they’re not the only oppressed people on earth and I think black activism should put more emphasis on black accountability, for their own sake.
Just finding ways to make their communities better independently of politics and asking nothing to other races. I know it’s not easy but activists should really consider this as their number one priority. Don’t take example on the Jews or the Chinese, overseas West Africans provide a good model in my opinion, they really thrive in the West, they always tell me they don’t understand US blacks and end up having the same stereotypes of them as whites do when they immigrate to the US. So it is important, everybody can make their lives better, people just need to be helped doing so by community leaders who believe in them.
LikeLike
That’s a fresh viewpoint. Maybe the commenters and proprietor would be interested in hearing more of it.
You could always try Steve Hsu’s blog. He talks a lot about IQ and genetics.
You could try education realist.
What community are you looking for?
LikeLike
None in particular, I already comment a lot on the West African (both English and French speaking) web that deals with politics and society. And I actually need to quit cyber-debating or it will cause me problems with my job from September on ! And in my relationship with my girlfriend who finds me daydreaming or appearently slacking off on my laptop while we have many many things to do.
LikeLike
Quickly about African Americans, I think they need to find a way to rebuild their community as it was just before the Civil Rights era. When Detroit and Chicago meant hope for all of them, when role models had not fled the Ghettos and were still able to organize the community, when bad behaviors had not been glamorized, when acting right was not acting white. You know, when they just had the attitude of a minority that was genuinely commited to its advancement. What is infortunate is that legitimate victimization has pushed too far, we went from “they’re not humans at all” to “they’re not to blame at all” when we just had to stop at “they’re know fully accountable equal human beings”.
LikeLike
This is not a bad place to talk about HBD.
The people here live and experience people who “believe HBD” every day.
Sharing knowledge about why HBD is unscientific can help (I think, at least).
There are several short, to-the-point facts that dismantle HBD.
Maybe someone will read one of yours and repeat it here in the US.
Robert knows I’m extremely pissed off that he keeps talking about me.
You should take that as a compliment. People often get angry, prissy, defensive, or start doling out “friendly advice” when you logically massacre them.
LikeLike
Robert knows the limits of his theories. That’s why he calls us liars, that’s why he now has an obsession with me being soon debuting attorney, that’s why they are talking about our verbal IQ. The real issue is that Robert Lindsay is stupid, it’s even alarming that in the US, people like him can get teaching positions.
I had to tell him, lawyers don’t lie, we just make the best from the reality. We have strict scientific-like rules with respect to what is an acceptable evidence, and within a regime of rule of law, be it man-made law or natural law, we just can’t get away with flawed theories that do not sustain themselves.
I privately attracted his attention on other incoherence and taken alone, without his stupid goons, he’s just defenseless and gets incredibly mean.
I will take the time to write an essay about my experience for this blog’s author. It will be anonymous because Robert Lindsay is not supposed to know we are trashing him here.
LikeLike
@ Afrosapiens
Since you are new here and do not seem to be a troll, I will not delete your comments up to this point, but you are getting SERIOUSLY off topic.
If you want to give advice to African Americans go here:
or, being West African, you might want to comment here:
If you want to talk about HBD, you can go here:
or, being West African, you might want to comment here:
If you want to talk in general, go here:
https://abagond.wordpress.com/open-thread/
If you want to talk about White fragility, then you are in the right place.
LikeLike
And of course, I want him to know my anger is personal, not ideological. HBD is a joke that still manages to make me smile sometimes. My reaction is a pure southern European macho thing, it’s about a man not accepting another man to “diss” him when he can’t have his say on the argument, even if it’s in the cyber world. We go far with that in France, the last XVII century-like duel involving politicians was in the 90s and there is quite a lot honor fights going on here with average joes.
LikeLike
@abagond
Ok, I’m sorry didn’t take the time to read comment policy. You know something funny, in HBD sphere, any conversation can turn to anal sex if one deranged individual pops one comment about that in the middle of the argument… Just to say how far I come from :-).
You can block this comment if you want to.
LikeLike
@ Afrosapiens
If you want to do a guest post, the guidelines are here:
LikeLike
@Abagond: Good post.
@Origin: Superb comments as usual.
LikeLike
@abagond,
Cool, you will like what I have to say.
LikeLike
What you ran in to on that blog could be an example of the OP.
You never wavered in your (correct) view that the entire discussion and statements were racist. And WF prompted an angry reaction.
LikeLike
I’ll answer in the open thread now, to pay respect to the comment policy which is democratic and fair here.
LikeLike
@abagond.. Your post is spot on. This is why I think some POC are frustrated when trying to have a discussion with some Whites about racism. They would rather block out ANY accountability for allowing institutional to remain thriving..It’s always someone else’s fault. How many unarmed Black men and women are killed by police and are blamed for their own demise? How many times are black people made the scapegoat for everything that’s wrong with America?
In honor of this post, I give you a video spoof that came out months ago called Diet Racism.. I found it quite fitting.
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdyin6uipy4)
“Kinda Racist? Try Diet Racism”
LikeLike
Origin: With your permission I did use your first post to post to Chauncey DeVega’s website, Indomitable. I gave you full credit but if I violated some form ettiquette, in doing that, I’ve asked him to remove it.
Your post was extremely enlightening. I think as many people should read it as possible.
LikeLike
my lead tech last night a black american guy from philly called me the n word in complete like okness? i didnt say ish just smiled and took my cig break
LikeLike
@Afrosapiens
I can’t wait to read that guest post of yours actually. Because the person it’s about, is a complete clown, who isn’t even a quarter as intelligent/deep thinking as he tries to present himself as being/capable of being.
To say the least.
LikeLike
@ bygodsloveandgrace
From the video:
LMAO. That must be Lord of Mirkwood in the video.
LikeLike
@abagond.. He probably won’t get it! When I first saw this video I was like this is so true and yet so sad at the same time.
LikeLike
@abagond
Great post, and glad you referenced Robin DiAngelo since that kind of thing normally gives you some credibility with white apologists. As many non-white Americans don’t want to take advice from whites on what’s racist, I doubt many whites want to take any advice from non-whites on white fragility.
@Origin
Great, well thought-out analysis . It still begs the question why the “establishment and perpetuation” of a “global empire” was necessary, and only Welsing and a few others (I haven’t read Wright’s works so don’t know if he answered that question) attempted to make that analysis from a behavioral science and psychiatric perspective, at their peril.
@bygodsloveandgrace
That’s too funny.
LikeLike
@bygodloveandgrace: I have seen that Youtube before it is funny and spot on. Yeah, i thought about Mirkwood too in “The Irish were persecuted too.” (sigh).
LikeLike
@ikeke35
I’m OK with sharing the post as you have done.
@resw77
“It still begs the question why the “establishment and perpetuation” of a “global empire” was necessary”
It’s a very good question and one I have taken various directions on myself. It’s also a difficult question which Welsing, who you mentioned, along with Cheik Anta Diop (Two Cradles Theory) and Michael Bradley (The Iceman Inheritance) have tackled. It’s also controversial because whites do not like to be scrutinized by those who’re not white.
You’ll often find “Western History” courses as part of college curriculums and they’ll sometimes examine the reasons for the West’s (imperialistic) “success”. Yet, if someone outside of academia asks why they’re so destructive, which is their valid subjective experience of Western European imperialistic “success”, it becomes “racist” to ask the question.
All the facets of white supremacy intersect and cooperate to maintain itself so the notion of “universalism” comes into play here. Universalism is the means by which the white subjective viewpoint becomes objective, and therefore universally applicable (in their own value system which values “objectivity”). The label of “subjective opinion” is reserved for competing viewpoints which are then invalidated as being narrow or parochial.
In universalistic terms, white (inter)nationalism is the march of “civilization” and so their “success” is good for everyone. That’s how a war for resources became “Iraqi Freedom”; a term both universalistic and hypocritical in light of Abu Ghraib and “Shock and Awe”, among other things. However this ideological framework can turn the question of why they are destructive into an illogical and “racist” non-question. From their perspective, there was nothing to destroy only clay for the white potter (White Man’s Burden).
Thankfully, the “why” is less relevant than the “how” while the latter is far easier to figure out. A doctor might wonder why his/her patient is sick but a prisoner is mostly concerned with how he/she is being confined (legalities, the guard shedule, the wall thickness, the camera locations) so as to be able to escape.
LikeLike
No white person wants to think about race even though white people created the concepts of race in our society to benefit white people above all others. White people live in all white worlds even in diverse metropolitan areas because white people want to truly believe that they are raceless and “normal” while POC are inherently deviant in terms of biology and culture. If you grew up in America watching white television like most of us, POC are limited characters who aren’t shown as fully human. Asian men are sexless karate experts or fobby dorky buffoons with bad stereotypical accents (i.e. Long Duk Dong from Sixteeen Candles, Micky Rooney in Breakfast at Tiffany’s and the City Wok owner on South Park). Black men are shorted to entertainment value in pro-athletes, R&B singers and rappers or limited to the face of senseless violent crime in the “bad” (read: black) neighborhood in the big city plastered on the local evening news nightly. To challenge white racism as a POC is to give a dose of truth to a group of privileged people who are committed to hiding from the fact that such privilege exists. It’s like how average people are grossed out to find out how chicken nuggets at McDonald’s are made.
LikeLike
i been code switching a bit lately ha it’s kinda interesting told her saying hangups white people supposed to get this neuroses ocd all that pay $300 a week for their therapist lol
LikeLike
did not say the n word
LikeLike
sorry but that comes from latin
http://latindictionary.wikidot.com/adjective:niger
LikeLike
SanFranpsycho415
Very well said.
LikeLike
@Origin
“Thankfully, the “why” is less relevant than the “how” while the latter is far easier to figure out. A doctor might wonder why his/her patient is sick but a prisoner is mostly concerned with how he/she is being confined…so as to be able to escape.”
That’s brilliant, and while it makes sense, I think the “why” is still important… perhaps not for non-whites (or the “prisoner,” if you’d like), but for fragile white Americans who get upset and otherwise uncomfortable when the issue of race inevitably arises.
@Lord of Mirkwood
I don’t think anyone disputes that the English have colonised the Irish, just as have the Germans, Swedish, Russians, etc. have colonised other European tribes. But it’s irrelevant. That’s what you don’t seem to understand.
I think it’s highly bizarre behaviour to feel so compelled to tell us about the historic plight of the Irish when we’re discussing something totally different.
LikeLike
@Origin, “When they “discovered” new lands in the past they knew they were going to plunder, pillage, and “claim” others’ possessions for their countries. However, they didn’t immediately share that with the native inhabitants. Instead, they gave contaminated gifts, played games of fake diplomacy, and signed treaties that they never intended to honor.”
Searching my ancestral surname, I was able to find that some of those ancestors owned slaves. New York had a huge slave population but you would think that slavery only existed in the south. The Dutch colonists are painted in books as a wonderful people who had a tolerant and open society, yet they owned slaves and killed Native Americans. My ancestral grandmother spoke Algonquin and also raised an orphan who was half black so I believed these distortions of early colonial New York without even knowing about these same people being slave owners or warring with the Native Americans. I guess I always thought it was just someone else who did that. To think of all the towns and places with Native American names and all the beautiful mountains and river where I live and not even realize that these same people were all either killed or transported to other places has produced a lot of confusion and dissonance in me. And it also explains how LOM constantly brings up Irish Americans as martyrs and slaves when in fact many Irish also owned slaves and ran plantations. He can’t resolve these facts in his mind so he defends himself and distances himself from any truth he might learn to help develop a healthy mental and moral compass.
I do not think there can be any healing or progress until the truth is uncovered and the ugly scabs are pulled off. And because that can be painful, I believe many white people who are interested in racism will eventually just walk away and find another hobby. Because they can.
LikeLike
Reblogged this on descriptura americana and commented:
Great post on White Fragility
LikeLike
White people are all albino’s or have albinism, every single one of them; Whites have admitted this multiple times before although indirectly and under cover, so Whites can admit the racism they have constructed in whatever countries they own/have power. They are just not going to do it directly because they are too cowardly to do so and face the facts.
If you understand what an Albino person goes through in life and how their disease affects them as a whole, then EVERYTHING that Whites engage in makes sense from a bird’s eye retrospective point of view. White racism is basically a defensive mechanism and a shield to hide the facts of their condition and all the dangers/weakness’s arising from that thereof. THERE IS A REASON WHY THE SOUTH HAD SLAVERY AND THE HIGHEST WHITE POPULATIONS ARE ALWAYS IN AREAS WITH LOW SUNLIGHT!!
I know many abagond readers/lurkers won’t accept this right away but White people are by scientific evidence, albino’s of indians from india. The genomic evidence is right infront of your eyes and right there; what i find perplexing is why whites have a hard time accepting that they are basically albino humans
the other thing is that Whites are not native to Europe, Whites were invaders and illegal immigrants from Central Asia and Siberia; the Germanics, the slavs, the hellenes, the turks, scythians, goths, cimmerians, avars, ossetians, Bulgars etc, the potpourri of modern white european groups were in fact illegal invaders and migrants from Central Asia and Siberia. Even European historians have admitted this multiple times.
And yes, they are all albino’s hence their whiteness; red hair/blonde hair and green/blue eyes etc are symptoms and signs of albinism, so virtually all white europeans regardless of country of origin are infact albino’s. The original Europeans were actually a black african people. The Ancient Greeks were not a white European albino people, they were a mixed black people.
i’m not trolling, you can find scientific evidence for all my claims, as well as historical documentation, to verify/back it up; the truth is hard to accept but these are facts Whites/Europeans have to realize and accept anyway…..
It would actually HELP WHITES/the White nationalist cause, if Whites admitted the truth about what they are, that you are infact albino’s of indians/blacks and it would help Whites in western society greatly and in understanding themselves and their “racist” behaviors as a result.
Whites are basically blacks/Indians racially with OCA-1,2,3; Oculocutaneous albinism expanded and in English; there are several levels of albinism. Mainstream media thinks that albinism is just having red eyes/white hair with extreme pale skin.
This is not true, that type of albinism is infact the rare extreme highest form of albinism which is level 1. LEVEL 2 AND 3 INDICATE THAT OCA ALBINISM INCLUDE BLONDE/STRAWBERRY BLONDE HAIR, BROWN HAIR, BLUE/GREEN/GRAY/HAZEL EYES, AND PALE/REDDISH SKIN!!
WHAT IS MORE SURPRISING IS THAT THERE ARE STILL MORE LEVELS OF ALBINISM THAT IS YET TO BE DISCOVERED!!!
Here is some evidence for everyone here:
South Indian albino’s:
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXW-Hxnf1c4)
More South Indian albino’s”
http://www.galeriehilanehvonko…
Gee let me think, these people surely don’t look familiar do they?
Oh and here is more galleries of “right” type of “albino’s”:
Brazillian artist’s albino gallery:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…
My gosh, these look exactly to almost like “white” people don’t they? Blonde/yellow hair, blue eyes and extremely pale skin.
It’s incredibly mind boggling how Whites cannot accept the fact that they are albino’s let alone see it when it’s clear as night/day.It’s in plain sight.
Whites are dumbfucks if they can’t figure out what these pictures mean.
Here is more:
http://www.lostateminor.com/20…
From the same photographer:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new…
More:
http://www.theguardian.com/art…
Why are White so delusional to not see the truth that is as plain as day? Why engage in blatant self-deception?
Here is SCIENTIFIC PHYSICAL EVIDENCE TO SHOW THAT WHITES=ALBINISM:
http://realhistoryww.com/world…
IT IS A FACT THAT WHITES=ALBINISM, WHITE PEOPLE ARE ALBINO’S OF BLACKS/INDIANS, THE SCIENTIFIC AND PHOTOGRAPHIC EVIDENCE ALL ADDS UP TO THIS CONCLUSION! WHY WHITES DENY AND CANNOT ACCEPT THIS CONCLUSION AND RUN AWAY FROM THIS REALITY IS BEYOND ME!
Here is one last video for more “evidence” for the “white condition”:
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1jTGSz31rE)
It’s a irrefutable and undisputed fact that ALL WHITES have albinism or are full fledge albino’s. Not only do the albinism markers of classic albinism match that of Whites but Albinism is also highly likely probability when you inbreed amongst a family; is it a coincidence that White geneticists are saying inbreeding CAUSED THE APPEARANCE of White characteristics and appearances? I think not, what White geneticists are really saying indirectly is that Whites are albino’s but they are just not saying it DIRECTLY BECAUSE THEY DON’T WANT TO ADMIT IT!
LikeLike
I thought this post was thought provoking and insightful, but reading the comments seems to just be a lot of finger pointing and no one seems to be thinking about ways we can cure Western society of the cancer that runs through it. I wish more people would look for solutions instead of just ranting about it or how can we ever expect change.
LikeLike
@MVH “I thought this post was thought provoking and insightful, but reading the comments seems to just be a lot of finger pointing and no one seems to be thinking about ways we can cure Western society of the cancer that runs through it. I wish more people would look for solutions instead of just ranting about it or how can we ever expect change.”
What are some of your solutions? Lead the way!
LikeLike
@vanishingpoint
Some scars may even remain when the scabs come off, but to heal from the wounds, we cannot just pretend they didn’t happen.
LikeLike
@ MVH @ Sharina
I already told LookingForAnswers and Afrosapiens that they were OFF TOPIC for talking about general solutions for Black Americans.
On this thread, you can talk about specific solutions for White fragility, not general solutions for Black Americans. To talk about more general level stuff, you can go here:
Thank you.
LikeLike
@Abagond
Them delete the comment here and I will repost it on the other thread.
LikeLike
@bygodsloveandgrace
My response to your comment here:
LikeLike
@MVH: Me thinks you are using a deflection tactic. Here’s a thought why don’t you and your white sisters and brothers find solutions to the problem since it was your people who created the mess. Don’t try to shift the burden on to black people. Just a thought.
LikeLike
Hello abagond,
The concept you are espousing here is actually an invention of whites itself. Most societies openly practice racism in the sense that it privileges the majority, which they should. What you are referring to here is a white pathology, that being the act of feeling guilty for racism when racism is healthy and normal.
And to be fair, when does accusing someone of racism in a Western society not amount to a personal attack? If you look at how the media, and many westerners, react to an alleged racist, it DOES sound like they believe the racist is a terrible and evil human.
Until the people living in western societies, white or not, realize that majority privilege is a positive thing, people will continue to overreact to “racism”. The majority should not have to ‘face up’ to racism, they should perpetuate it, to a reasonable degree, as a method of racial self interest, Anything less is to equate a minority with a majority, which is the flawed basis upon which Western social thought is founded.
LikeLike
Yeah because whites were a majority in South Africa, as an example of your awesome logic. Whites are also not a majority in our ever shrinking world so is that the green light to toss them all out on their rear ends and cram them back into Europe?
LikeLike
Gen,
That makes almost no sense. All races are minorities in the world, so that’s irrelevant.
Blacks in South Africa should be more privileged than whites, because blacks are the majority there. They should also have license to be racist (in the Western sense) towards whites, because whites are a minority there. Given history, this should include the license to remove whites from their land, by violent force if necessary. Do you get it now?
LikeLike
Lord of Mirkwood,
Liberal humanism is a disease of compassion, engineered by Western cultures. I embrace race nationalism, and encourage all humans to do the same.
LikeLike
@Critical Equality Studies: Prejudices are what fools use for reason. This fits you perfectly. Racist are perpetually stupid.
LikeLike
Voltaire’s quote about prejudice is so appropos to people like Critical Equality Studies.
LikeLike
@Critical Equality Studies
Your majority privilege is simply an act of fear. It was created out of fear of losing what had been stolen from others. Nothing more and nothing less. Whites like to prop it up as being something more than what it really is. There is no mystery or scientific logic behind it. Other groups did not carry insecurity about themselves which allowed for them to easily welcome whites in. That was their downfall as whites carry a large level of insecurity that makes them need to eliminate any challenges.
LikeLike
sharinalr,
Your position makes little sense, and seems to reflect a white-centric worldview.
Majority privilege should be practiced where there is a majority, regardless of whether or not the majority’s possessions were stolen. This means that all societies in the world should favor its majorities, even if there are no whites in their society.
LikeLike
Critical Equality Studies
Saying my position makes no sense with little ability to elaborate why it does not just means you are doing nothing more than fluff. Making it appear as if you know what you are talking about when you don’t.
White-centric would be more like me trying to excuse why stolen goods are acceptable.
All a deflection from what your majority theory really is. Fear. A majority would not need privileges if they were actually superior.
LikeLike
sharinalr,
Most of what you’ve been responding with is not even on topic. That is what fluff looks like.
There is no doubt that people fear the loss of power as a group (as they should), which is why they should be encouraged to maintain privilege at the expense of minority groups. That’s what I am advocating here.
LikeLike
@ Critical Equality Studies
At a world level, Asians are the majority. By your reasoning, Asians have the right to take whatever they want. If they want, they can, say, wipe out or enslave everyone in Australia or the US, and take the land for themselves. The US or Australia could try to fight back, but they would be in the wrong.
LikeLike
@ Lord of Mirkwood
You just called her a race nationalist. That is not cool.
LikeLike
Abagond,
Asians are not the majority as far as race goes, unless you mean Asians like everyone living on the continent of Asia. Majority privilege is not a moral license to do anything to a minority, it is only there to guarantee that the majority’s needs and wants are considered first.
In either case, the entire world does not fall under one social jurisdiction, so that comparison is not very useful.
LikeLike
Lord of Mirkwood,
Racial superiority, true or not, is irrelevant to race nationalism. One should be nationalistic even if his race is not superior. Saying nationalism leads to Hitler is like saying socialism leads to Stalin. It’s a pointless hyperbole.
LikeLike
@Critical Equality Studies
“Most of what you’ve been responding with is not even on topic. That is what fluff looks like.”—It would only be off topic if you account for me responding to your posts. So no fluff here, but it is quite obvious you don’t really know what you are talking about. Pretending as if you do is fluff at it’s finest.
“That’s what I am advocating here.”—I get what you are advocating here, but you are also trying to deflect attention away from what I am saying. Which is why I stated that you should stop trying to puff it up with scientific mambo jumbo and call it what it is. Fear.
LikeLike
sharinalr,
You addressed me directly, and now you are pretending you weren’t responding to me? Quite unconvincing. You then went on to derail the subject with a white-centric analysis, then projecting your own error on me, twice.
To dismiss ideological inequality as merely fear shows a bias on your part towards inequality, which is problematic. It is rational, if not scientific, to pursue majority privilege for the interest of one’s own kinship group.
LikeLike
@Critical Equality Studies
Read what I said very carefully and very slowly. Use those critical thinking skills you like to pretend you have and then try again in addressing what I said.
1. Notice I said nothing about not addressing you.
2. You keep bring up white-centric and with no idea what is is or how what I said is. So basically your fluff for not knowing what you speak on? I don’t think it is my error because your only response is “you are wrong.”
“It is rational, if not scientific, to pursue majority privilege for the interest of one’s own kinship group.”—Fear is not rational. Now is it? The very basic need that ones has to maintain a privilege for their group is for what reason? What is the driving force behind it? Fear of being wiped out. Fear of having to rely on what that other group will do to you after years of oppression. All of it is fear. All of it is built on fear. If you can’t see that then it is your bias that is the problem here.
LikeLike
@Lord of Mirkwood
Your respond doesn’t really have anything to do with my points. You’re starting to sound like the old white hippie here.
LikeLike
sharinalr
You are being told you are wrong because, well, you are wrong.
1. If you were not responding to my posts when you addressed me with @Critical Equality Studies, then what were you doing?
2. You brought up a white-centric viewpoint by mentioning whites and “what they stole” in the first place. Had you understood majoritarian inequality, you would not have made that point at all.
3. The assumption that ideological inequality is based only on fear is erroneous. Self-interest is the first motive, meaning that a majority should enforce privilege even if there was no threat to their power. As an aside, fear can even be argued to serve self-interest, at least by proxy.Should a people not fear being wiped out? Or the on the receiving end of vengeance?
LikeLike
OFF TOPIC: Majority rights and that White therefore should not have a sense of White fragility.
The fact is they do. Critical Equality Studies is derailing the thread, possibly out of her own sense of White fragility.
LikeLike
@Abagond
Feel free to delete my comment as I posted it on open thread
@Critical Equality Studies
Here is a link to continue this discussion.
https://abagond.wordpress.com/open-thread/#comment-292159
LikeLike
@ Sharina
Thank you.
LikeLike
abagond,
The point is that they shouldn’t, because they’re the majority (for now). And I’m not white, just an advocate of race nationalism.
But I think the point has been made here, despite a few nitpickers. If you don’t want me “derailing”, then I await to discuss your next post.
LikeLike
The Black Knight came back 😛😀
LikeLike
@ Lord of Mirkwood
No. It will look like it came from me. I will undelete it here, you copy and paste it and then I will delete here.
LikeLike
@Critical Equality Studies
If your point was to say “you’re wrong” point taken. Other that you sounded a bit crazy.
LikeLike
“@sharinalr
@bygodsloveandgrace
My response to your comment here:
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2015/07/07/my-advice-to-black-americans/#comment-292015”
Great suggestions and thanks for sharing. When I wrote to MVH, it was my way of saying, “you first” as I didn’t care for his/her tone. It read incredibly preachy as if we were being talked down to.
LikeLike
@jefe: My God who is the black knight? Is who i think it is?
LikeLike
@MB, I should say A black knight. Maybe this world has many of them.
LikeLike
@jefe: Yep, he’s back as a sock puppet Critical Equality Studies is X-Praetorious.
LikeLike
I think one of the subjects that results in instant white frugality is any discussion of white supremecy.
For the majority white supremecy means the KKK and Nazi tattooed bikers.
For white progessives white privilage is a much comfortable subject to rally around. It’s neatly compartmentalized in a back pack and useful for pointing out natural prejudice. But it’s acknowledgement don’t necessarily require political action only awareness.
White supremecy on the other hand talks about what is outside of the back pack. White supremecy deals with the economics and structures that permitted the back pack to made and dictates who it’s distributed too, which groups are targeted and who collects a profit.
For whites to accept that white supremecy is the root of the sysytem we live in the U.S. as well as its extension throughout the planet, it would require a complete adjustment of everything they know to be true.
It’s much easier to blame others and offer legeslative bandades.
LikeLike
@MB,
Did you notice how our “new” Black Knight suddenly went quiet?
LikeLike
[…] term for this, in the United States at least, is white fragility. A lot of us grew up in the anti-racism-is-colour-blindness era, and we struggle when someone […]
LikeLike
I came across a post on the blog, White Privilege Syllabus that discussed White Fragility behaviors among Teach For America (TFA) workers. The blogger described a range of extreme behaviors during meetings where TFA corps members were tasked with examining race, racism and Whiteness. According to the blogger:
https://whiteprivilegesyllabus.com/2018/04/21/teach-for-americas-alarm-zone-for-white-educators/
What makes this observation noteworthy is the fact that TFA corps members are routinely placed in majority Black, Latinx and Native American schools. They are often lower cost replacements for experienced, professional local teachers who are pushed out by education “reformers” intent on privatizing public education.
If these TFA corps members were having a tough time discussing race, racism and Whiteness in all White groups, imagine their complete inability to communicate effectively with Black, Latinx and Native American children and their parents. Or empathize with Black children. Or relate to Latinx children. Or respect the history of Native American children.
LikeLiked by 1 person
In my opinion a good example of white fragility is the response to Michelle Wolf’s comedy roast at the White House Correspondents Dinner. The white tears and hypocrisy just blows my mind.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Oh lord, where to begin… Let’s start with Robin Deangelo’s degree. PhD in “Race Relations and white identity”. That’s a bs degree, and an insult to anyone who actually earned a real degree.
Now, can you provide data to support institutionalized racism in America? I didn’t think so.
Please read “Black Rednecks and White Liberals” and then come back to the the adult table.
LikeLike
@ James Cage
“Let’s start with Robin Deangelo’s degree. PhD in “Race Relations and white identity”. That’s a bs degree, and an insult to anyone who actually earned a real degree.”
Actually, her PhD is in education, from the University of Washington. Her specific focus is on multicultural education, with an emphasis on white identity. But her doctoral coursework would have required her to have a firm grounding in all aspects of educational history, theory, and pedagogy — no different from fellow students whose specific focus may have been STEM fields, or gifted and talented programs, or special education.
“Now, can you provide data to support institutionalized racism in America?”
You can start here:
There are tons of other posts on this blog giving stats on institutionalized racism, which you would have seen had you bothered to look around at all.
“Please read “Black Rednecks and White Liberals” and then come back to the the [sic] adult table.”
Which of the essays in that book do you believe pertains to the discussion of white fragility?
LikeLiked by 1 person
@James Cage:
Your babblings proves the point of this post.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Bettina Love:
(https://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2020/08/25/there-is-nothing-fragile-about-racism.html)
LikeLike