“Black People: The White Liberal User’s Guide” (2015, 4th edition) for US politics does not seem to be online, but it is not hard to guess some of what is in it:
1. Take the Black vote for granted.
This is the key to all the rest. With other supporters, like feminists, gay rights activists, labour unions and “hard-working Americans”, once you are in office you have to throw them a bone, maybe even some red meat at times, so that they keep voting for you. You might think you should do the same for Black voters. Wrong! Huge mistake. If you openly favour Blacks, that will lose you way more White votes than you can possibly ever gain in Black votes. You can only help Blacks by helping Whites at the same time, so:
2. Be colour-blind: Make it about class, not race.
There are two kinds of Black people: Blacks who are poor and those who are not. Those who are poor you can help as poor people, along with tons of poor Whites. Blacks who are not poor do not suffer from racism, so again, no need to make it about race. The only time White voters will expect you to “do something about the blacks” is when said Blacks are burning stuff down, particularly CVS pharmacies. #WhitePropertyMatters.
3. “All Lives Matter.”
You must say this if someone says, “Black Lives Matter”. These days you can righteously stand with gay people, but not Black people!
4. Play up how racist the other side is.
This is the Racist Uncle Trick. You want to make yourself seem like “the lesser of two evils” in the eyes of Black voters.
5. Have a Sister Souljah Moment.
If a scary-but-articulate Black person, like Sister Souljah or Rev. Jeremiah Wright, says something that appears in the mainstream media that makes them sound, well, scary to White people, you must condemn them. This helps to distance you from Blacks in the eyes of White voters and makes you seem “safe”.
6. Rent a Negro.
There are tons of “articulate and bright and clean” Negroes out there who hold safe, White Liberal opinions – or at least know when to keep their mouth shut.
7. Show your concern for Black people: talk down to them.
Black people love that! Especially when they just got their university degree or rule a sovereign African nation. Oozing White paternalism is an important skill to master. If you do it right, you can blame the effects of White racism and imperialism on them! Remember: they have to “take responsibility”, but not you.
8. Make Black issues overly complicated.
Say that they are “multilayered”, that they have “festered” from “long neglect” and so on. No one will challenge you on this and yet it will allow you to avoid blame if you make no actual progress. But be careful: always blame the past – “the legacies of slavery and Jim Crow” – never any living, breathing White people.
Note: You do not need white skin to be a White Liberal.
– Abagond, 2015.
See also:
- Democrat
- other user’s guides:
- “It’s class, not race”
- #CVSmatters
- “All Lives Matter”
- Racist Uncles
- The Reverend Wright Affair
- Rented Negroes
- White paternalism
- The Teflon Theory of History
542
Thanks for writing this. Hopefully certain individuals will read this and get an idea of what others have been trying to tell them.
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Lord of Mirkwood
Blaming certain racist behaviors on republicans make you a racist uncle. Instead of taking in what issues you display your first response was to blame it on republicans.
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Playing the blame game is not a reasonable rebuttal either.
Correction on republicans above.
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Lord of Mirkwood gave a perfect example of #4: Play up how racist the other side is.
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Good old Lordy is always good for a laugh. Let’s see if I can contradict some of his assertions: “The party that wants to cut welfare and leave poor people suffering from cancer: REPUBLICANS. ” ‘REPUBLICAN’ Clinton ended welfare as we know it, on August 15, 1996 http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/welfare/stories/wf082396.htm
‘REPUBLICAN’ Clinton built up the police during his administration http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/15/politics/bill-clinton-1994-crime-bill/ and ‘REPUBLICAN’ Obama was too busy making lists of people to be killed overseas to bother to scale down the police assault on blacks! Lordy’s favorite tyrant, Napoleon re-enslaved the black people of Guadeloupe by killing between 10 to 20% of them as payment for their loyalty to France after they were emancipated in 1794. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antoine_Richepanse. This is way too easy.
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“You must say this if someone says, “Black Lives Matter”. These days you can righteously stand with gay people, but not Black people!”
_____________
This is the NEW normal, gay people are (normal) commonplace and acceptable. Black people are somehow not. Which makes it STILL desirably de facto to kill unarmed/uppity Blacks under the cover of law, or fear or hatred or cowardice, etc.
Republican/Democrats = two sides of the SAME coin (6 of one, half a dozen of the other! When it comes to Race, it all the same..)
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What’s interesting about the class vs race arguments is that even blacks and whites of the same class have diverting phenomena along racial lines. For instance, a poor white family is much more likely to at least own their house while a poor black family usually does not. Also, whites are more likely to get jobs than blacks of any class. A study a few years ago concluded that a white man who is a convicted felon has the same chances of getting hired as a black man with a clean record.
Another recent study concluded that a black college student has equal chances of getting a job as a white high school dropout:
http://thinkprogress.org/education/2014/06/25/3452887/education-race-gap/
All in all, some issues are completely centered around race and there is no class argument. For example, whites are much more likely to sell and use drugs than any other race, yet blacks are more likely to get imprisoned on drug charges:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2014/09/30/white-people-are-more-likely-to-deal-drugs-but-black-people-are-more-likely-to-get-arrested-for-it/
As it stands, 90% of new heroin addicts in the past ten years are young white people from suburban and rural areas. Modern opiate addiction has been described as a white people problem.
http://www.salon.com/2015/04/18/heroin_is_a_white_people_problem_bad_medicine_economic_rot_and_the_enterprising_mexican_town_that_turned_the_heartland_on_to_black_tar/
But a white person who is a heroin addict can go from the state pen to graduating from a university much better than Penn State all thanks to trusty white privilege:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/01/21/heroin-addiction-sent-me-to-prison-white-privilege-got-me-out-and-to-the-ivy-league/
But white people would like to put their spin on this argument saying it’s all class issues when these are clearly racial issues.
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This is too funny…and then to get a live example of #4 on the second comment? Priceless.
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Lord of Mirkwood
No one denies republicans have racist views. True enough they do, but so do liberals. It is an act of deflection to ignore your own racism to make a point to showcase anothers. You can call out theirs but do not have the ability to call out and address your own racial tendencies?
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@Lord of Mirkwood
That is great, but you seem to not realize the very reasons people are calling you a racist uncle. Notice how you pointed to everyone else’s racism, but are sidestepping your own racist tendencies?
For example on the ” What if Sam Dubose had been a beloved lion?” thread. You missed the whole point and made several rants about the lion, while ignoring the very racist attitudes that allow for Americans to care more about a lion than the death of a black man.
Another example is your idea of knowing what is best for black people. I forget what thread another commenter pointed this out to you, but the paternalistic need is also a bit racist to some. Do you see where I am going here?
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From
The Roissy Syndrome – reading while white
(https://abagond.wordpress.com/2009/11/11/the-roissy-syndrome/)
Only it happened already by comment #2 here.
White Liberals calling Republicans racist is simply the pot calling the kettle black.
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@Sharinair
No, he does not.
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Lord of mirkwood
I did not lecture you. I just pointed out your racism. So I am talking to a racist with blinders on.
Calling out things does not mean you are any less of bigot. Great example is the Kelly Osborne situation. She made a racial comment about hispanics. In her mind it was not racist. In reality it was. Same with you. Except your denial is wow.
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@Jefe
Apparently, but also very unfortunate.
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@Sharinair,
Just like the “Willfully Obtuse” thread, it is so funny to see people attracted to a post like a moth to a flame.
Moth says “Look at those other bugs attracted to the flame, esp. the ones who get burned. They are so stupid.”
I wonder if they are blind to see that Obama has been playing the quintessential white liberal role. But I do suspect that part of it is just playing politics. I wonder how much influence he will have as a past president.
How should the mantra go?
White Liberal: It’s not race, it’s class
Republican: It’s not race, it’s culture. Wait, that’s the same as race.
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@Lord Of Mirkwood: I too find you racist and condescending. I shake my head that you don’t even see your own racism, then you get defensive. Typical white centric behavior. You are not ready to be called an ally or any type of anti-racist when you won’t confront your own racism.
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I don’t know how other WP here structure their antiracist world views so I’ll share on how I construct mine.
The first supposition that WP need to wrap their minds around is the fact that we live in a white centric world. Everything on this planet revolves around that. It doesn’t matter which country you live in, you are directly affected by white emersion either positively or negatively. White supremacy isn’t just Klansman but rather the anthropocentric reflection of the ruling tribe mirrored in every facet of society. Its the infrastructure of Western civilization.
If you can’t accept that then you can’t really call yourself an antiracist.
If you can accept the premise that the world is constructed around white supremacy then you can be an antiracist Christian, Muslim, social conservative, liberal, libertarian, anarchist, atheist ect. because those philosophical choices aren’t in themselves racist.
The Republican and Democratic parties are great political organizations for white people. The idea that we can legislate away racism or bring about an egalitarian society within the confines of white supremacy is a contradiction.
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LOM: Like i suggested to Uriel there is an excellent podcast called About Race Our National Conversation About Conversations About Race. The hosts are Authors Baratunde Thurston, Raquel Cepeda and Tanner Colby. You could learn alot from them. When i am listening to them i think of your post. You are the clueless and obtuse white person who thinks they are not a racist and they are. It’s very educational and it has lots of information for those who want to call themselves allies or anti racist.
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One of the things they shared on the pod cast About Race is when a black person or person of color tells the white person they have said something offensive or hurtful they need to listen and do some reflection. Don’t just sweep it under the rug, consider correcting yourself and think about what you say.
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@ Lord of Mirkwood
Right in the post I said, point-blank:
and then you went and did just that!!
Why???!!!
It is like you did not read the post or do not mind if people think you are an idiot. It is not just you. This goes on all the time. Can you offer any insight? I am not getting this.
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@LoM
Rep and Dem are two facets of the same racist system. They are also facets of the same classist system. Blaming the other side is futile and self-deluding
I know people here get annoyed by the thing abagond quoted about “it’s not race, it’s class”. I can understand why – that is used as a smokescreen and an excuse by racists. However, when used like that, the phrase is a misappropriation and misrepresentation of a genuine belief amongst real radicals that racism and classism are part of the same problem.
IMO, a correct assessment would be “It is race and it is class”. The two oppressive systems are symbiotic. The white liberals who claim it is not about race but about class are guilty of the same lack of intersectional awareness that one sees from members of all groups who are engaged in struggle for freedom from oppression. PoC, feminists, LGBT activists, class war activists… All tend to have an exclusive attitude and focus. Rather than embracing the struggles of their fellow disadvantaged groups, they reject them as irrelevant or as deflection/diversion. In some circumstances that is justified, but more often, to do so plays into the hands of those who would maintain the system status quo. Divide and rule.
To reject racism and think one can fight classism is a fail, as is rejecting classism and thinking one can fight racism. Those who run the system will always exploit perceived differences between people in order to divert attention and anger from their own culpability.
As with many biological systems, if one tries to change too small a part of a socio-political system it will heal itself. That is why most genuine anarchists support struggles against all forms of oppression by elite/privileged groups. It’s the only way we can see that may bring about permanent change.
To blame Republicans when they, like you, are just another manifestation of the system’s multiple personality disorder will achieve nothing. That’s just fighting the nastiest symptom and missing the more subtle ones.
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@ Abagond..There is security in identifying with a group- whether the security is tangible or illusory-of people that look familiar with you especially in a place where there are different cultures, languages or even skin colors. We gravitate towards people who look like us or speak like us or have gone to a similar school or live in the same area. So, white people will NEVER embrace black people and accept them as members of their family because of this one truth-I know I am generalizing here. So, the only solution is for African Americans to unite and be Machiavellian as much as possible. Fight not to be accepted by white people but to be respected- demand respect. Reject brands that support racist politicians and do everything in your power to protect your children. Obama really did not have power to do anything because America is a plutocracy not a democracy. I say all this with humility and will accept any correction.
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And these GOP CONSERVATIVES CHRISTIANS, promoting such insidious propoganda… would also have you believe, that “the World”, should FOLLOW their RELIGION… because “it” represents the CHARACTER OF GOD! What a SUPERFICIAL JOKE!!!
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@ Lord of Mirkwood
I expect people to disagree with me. But that is not what you were doing. Instead you were doing just what the post said, without apparent irony, sarcasm or parody, which only served to prove my point.
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OMG 😮
No, the purpose of having broken record arguments is not to stifle discussion. The purpose is to put them in the posts that address that topic. Otherwise, they will clog up the other posts.
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@ Lord of Mirkwood
I believe you when you say that you are not “racist” — this word tends to get thrown out a lot and loses it’s meaning.
I think the word that everyone is looking for, is “eurocentric” — you have a Typical eurocentric/white American mindset because even though you say the correct “anti-racist” statements
you display a Typical white American/western European viewpoint on various topics where race is an issue.
and it’s not your fault because everyone (that means black people too) who lives in America or comes from a country plagued by Colonization, has been raised in and shaped by the white American/European mindset.
That is not necessarily a bad thing because that’s who you are
but it’s painfully obvious that you cannot relate to views through the lenses of black Americans or any other black/brown people’s shoes.
and I think that is the main issue, that this generation of young black American people are tired of in their politicians… they are being patronized by white people who truly don’t “get it”
It’s not necessary to agree with other people’s views but it is necessary to be able to see yourself “walking in their shoes” in order to understand where they are coming from.
— it’s necessary to be able to view things from their point of view and leave your personal views at home.
You can’t be “anti-black racist” if you don’t understand WHY black people are upset.
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villagewriter
I agree. I told a group of black people the same thing on another blog and got silence. We just have way too many black people looking for a pat on the back from white people about any and everything.
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@Linda
Thank you for the word correction. It may be of better use than calling him racist.
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LOM
“I consider myself perfectly ready to be an anti-racist. An anti-racist is one who speaks out against and proposes solutions for the problem. I’ve done more than enough of that.”
Do you believe that white supremacy is rooted in the infrastructure of the American way of life? That structural and institutional racism are a part of that structure? That 98% percent of the white Americans population ranges from the extreme to the clueless when it comes to race.
If you can’t accept that then your just another liberal who thinks they are antiracist and an alley.
The statement “It is race and it is class” is true but its always understood and functioning through race that’s running things.
When you say things like “Don’t lecture me” then that tells me your mind is made up and your not interested in learning or thinking outside your ideological box. Your a guest here in a black centric blog and addressing a non white poster here with that tone shows the utmost in disrespect.
Your convinced that your ideology is superior, that if the right people were elected, somehow racism can be eradicated politically. Its true that some minor things can be done but you wish to accomplish this WITHIN the system of white supremacy.
Practicewyp said:
“And these GOP CONSERVATIVES CHRISTIANS, promoting such insidious propaganda”.
My wife and I have good friends who are black evangelical Christians who vote conservative over issues like abortion and gay marriage. They know were secular ect but its not an issue because we value their friendship over their political beliefs. Sometimes we poke each other about amicably but were talking about life long friendships.
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@Sharinalr
Exactly. Only the guys you call “Uncle Tom” usually get the pat on the back because they do not want to challenge white supremacy. If Obama had all the black and brown vote in America, he would have been able to flex his political muscles more. And if the black and the brown vote had tremendous amount of money or just top-notch fund raising capability not even the Koch brothers would challenge that. Please read Machiavelli and learn how to get your way for the sake of the next generation of black men and women. Please watch
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_nD_z7nlq4)
Get power in your hands and no policeman will dare kill your children and abuse your women.
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Read ‘The Prince’ by Machiavelli
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I feel terrible for Lordy, seems everybody is getting on his case. Being contrarian I feel obliged to say something positive about him. The kid probably means well and sincerely believes himself to be an anti-racist, and he is after a fashion. I don’t see any point in reproving him for being unable to deal with his blind spots, if he could they wouldn’t be blind spots would they?
I see him as being more Irish centric than anything else. His main concern is, is this good for the Irish? I can’t fault him for that, we all do that based on our group identity. Rather than shame him or try to, we might want to delve deeper into what he’s about by having him explain how he compartmentalizes his ‘anti-racism’ from the rest of his activities. Lordy, what are your priorities? How do you imagine a world free from racial oppression? What’s your responsibility in helping to bring such world about? Is it a question of bringing the oppressed masses to your level as a white man or to create something wholly original? What’s your measure of a good and decent human being?
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Hey Abagond, can you change the name of the Republican links to the “The white Conservative guide to X”? I think it’d be more consistent.
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Any chance we may see the other corollary, “Asians: The White Liberal User’s Guide”?
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Thank you Lordy, so you’re the measure of all things then? I can’t say I’m surprised. Why do you think “Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité!” ended up in the tyranny of you know who?
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@ Abagond
@ All
If I may insert myself into this discussion. In Steve Biko’s, (that giant of a man), most excellent book, “I Write What I Like”, he has this incisive critique of the white liberal. It still has much relevance today in all societies beset by white racism.
Here are a few extracts:
And:
This description of “metaphysical guilt” explains adequately that white racism
Frank Talk.
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Why do you think “Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité!” ended up in the tyranny of you know who? Lordy, why won’t you answer this simple question instead of trying to avoid it? Its only been 226 years since that banner was raised, yet we’re nowhere near that goal! By the way, you know who didn’t have a grandson, the person who became president in 1848 and emperor in 1852 was his nephew, the son of his brother Louis. I’ surprised you made such basic mistake.
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To L of M:
Do you think the ideals of the French Revolution were bad?
I realize that Napoleon the First came after the Republic but as you say he did embody most of the ideals of the French revolution, at least in Europe, however didn’t he try to reimpose slavery in Haiti..?
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Uncle Milton, He failed to impose slavery in St-Domingue, now called Haiti, but he did succeed in Guadeloupe by massacring the free black population, see the Richepanse link in my first comment. Lordy is going in full denial mode here with the following comment: “Do you think the ideals of the French Revolution were bad? Because they’re basically the ideals that people on this blog are proclaiming, except in France it was white people doing the uprising…oh, is that what makes it suspect? Revolution is okay except when pale-skinned French speakers are carrying it out?”
No Lordy, I think nothing of the sort, this is just a cheap ploy on your part to evade my question. Why was a mass murderer and slaver deemed the epitome of that age? He became the mark of excellence, the prototype of a successful man. What I want you to address is why you see yourself reflected in somebody like that who left a trail of death and destruction where ever he went. How do you square that fact with your anti-racist rhetoric? I don’t wish to debate Napoleon, since that would be off topic, but your zeal for him. On your blog you said something about his help to the oppressed Irish, hence my conclusion that your stance was Irish centric. Getting back to the ideals of the French Revolution, why do you not see a contradiction between the words and deeds? Who wants a ‘liberator’ armed to the teeth ordering you around? Isn’t that the same problem the USA is experiencing?
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Gro Jo’s on fire!
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Gro Jo’s post are on fleek.
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taotesan
Thank you for sharing. That was without a doubt on point.
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@Gro Jo
“No Lordy, I think nothing of the sort, this is just a cheap ploy on your part to evade my question. Why was a mass murderer and slaver deemed the epitome of that age?” Their heroes were your murderers, rapists and eugenicists who experimented on your ancestors. Their flags of pride are blotted with your blood and their privileged kids shoot you in your churches for sport. They kill you and impoverish you not because they are evil its mainly because they can. Humans love treading on the weak and that’s why I wish you guys would unite and protect yourselves and your children through all means possible.
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the ‘gays’, hey at least they’re not getting high right? and they want to get married, adopt foster children, and pay taxes. a republican’s wet dream
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@gro jo,taotesan and villagewriter-YES!!! @V8driver, Lol-good points!
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eeew 2 comments and they’re both moddied on @lotr.wp
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my wife (pretty much black american) posited i lacked rationale for habitually coming here, comparing it to stormfront ( she has not been on BBS’s since ‘door games’) in a logical sense, i tend to look up to abagond he is a inspiration as a writer and classical scholar and he’s pretty much right. lotr idk what is his deal again not all whites 🙂
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Jeez, LoM, you’re pretty heavy handed with your moderation over there, aren’t you. Stuff that would sail through abagond’s filtering gets caught up in yours.
I also have a comment in mod on your blog.
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Gro Jo you have a new fan! A whole post was dedicated to you! Kudos!
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I would like to share what a liar writes:
My position: anybody can be an anti-racist so long as they have the right convictions, make good policy proposals, and be willing to condemn racism that they see around them. My opponents were less charitable. Some of them (the ones I can remember off the top of my head) were Sharinalr, Jefe, Mary Burrell, and – best of all – my old friend Gro Jo! Their position was that all white people are inherently racist, by virtue of either having grown up soaking it in or simply by their descent. As they would have it, I am a racist whether I like it or not (funny, I’ve never seen black commenters treated with the same level of suspicion) and I shouldn’t waste time calling out Republicans for their racism since I’m, according to them, no better.
This is what the positions actually were:
No one denies republicans have racist views. True enough they do, but so do liberals. It is an act of deflection to ignore your own racism to make a point to showcase anothers. You can call out theirs but do not have the ability to call out and address your own racial tendencies?
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@Buddhuu
Yours went to moderation and mine was deleted. Guess it can’t get out that he is posting lies now can it.
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@sharinalr: Well, since i was mentioned on LOM’s blog for accusing him of being a racist my response to that is a hit dog will holler.
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@Sharinair,
I see I was also mentioned in the list of people marked as “opponent”.
And I agree that he completely misread my (and the others’) positions, especially this part “Their position was that all white people are inherently racist, by virtue of either having grown up soaking it in or simply by their descent. ”
(My position: it has absolutely nothing with being “white” or of European descent.)
And I also basically concur with your interpretation of the actual position, “It is an act of deflection to ignore your own racism to make a point to showcase another’s. You can call out theirs but do not have the ability to call out and address your own racial tendencies?”
And I said above “White Liberals calling Republicans racist is simply the pot calling the kettle black.” which is basically what you said above too. Even Tim Wise calls White Liberals (Northern or otherwise) racist.
Political views which superficially address racial inequities will do little without dismantling the original white supremacist ideology in the first place. But Tim Wise also has done very little to dismantle racism in the USA. His work goes little further than to raise awareness of white people.
A good example that I know about is Restrictive Covenants. When that was ruled illegal, it was replaced with blockbusting. The Fair Housing Act (FHA) and the laws prohibiting blockbusting were enacted, but then we had a proliferation of racial steering and predatory lending, segregation academies and continued white flight. With each new law making something illegal, another behavior and practice replaces it.
On top of that is the flat denial and feeling of being offended after being called out on what is undeniably blatant racist behaviour.
I actually don’t think he lies on purpose, or is even willfully obtuse. More like blind as a bat with no functioning sonar.
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Lordy, now you’re stooping to emotional blackmail? Get a grip. The only thing people are telling you is that you are not immune from certain moods and attitudes associated with white people. Take a break from this forum and reassess your commitments.
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@Mary Burrell
One sure will.
@jefe
I agree with you, but I think the way he presented those arguments to me was just plain flat out lying rather than an act of wilfully obtuse.
On another note I have met several like this who position themselves to be called anti-racist or white allies. These type individuals have no regard for honesty. Something I feel is detrimental in cases where you are fighting against a system of injustice. I posed the question.. Once we take down the top 1% who control the system, then how do we deal with the mindset that still allows poor whites to engage in privilege? The question was either ignored and acts of deflection ensued or I was told I was part of the problem. Was told it was a poor vs rich issue. None wanted to acknowledge or deal with the racism aspect and wanted to pretend that with the rich gone it will be equal.
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@sharinalr: The deflection is a b***h the it’s a class issue or the my people didn’t own slaves and all the other b.s. that they use to keep from acknowledging the big stinky turd in the room. I will always quote former AG Eric Holder “America is a nation of cowards when it comes to discussing race.” White America and Europeans around the globe need to have a big come to Jesus meeting in regards to this topic.
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I’m reading a lot here about what “white people should do”, and not any self-reflection that blacks should engage in, or things they “should do”. Whites “need to have a come to Jesus meeting” in regards to white racism, for example, yet all I see in that statement is another example of racism.
Needless to say, that isn’t going to happen, ever. Whites are no more monolithic than blacks, or asians, or latinos. Some whites are trying to make things better, others like things they way they are, and other will try and make things worse.
It sure in unfortunate in my mind that whites who are trying to make things better get knifed in the back because their soul or rhetoric or whatever isn’t pure enough to be considered an ally – as if those doing the knifing are so pure and sinless they have any right to be casting such stones.
Come to Jesus indeed….
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@Kiwi
Really? What do I have to cry about?
And I really hope that you weren’t including yourself in that mature category.
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@ Joshua
Read the title of the post. As noted in the post itself, White Liberals do plenty of talking down to Blacks.
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@Abagond
And here Blacks are trying to talk down to a White Liberal….
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@ Joshua
Being White does not put you or anyone beyond criticism.
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@Abagond
Did anyone say it did? But is the criticism making things better or not? If it’s not, why bother other than to make oneself feel holier than the person being criticized? That’s what I see in this article’s comments – attempts to feel better about oneself by putting down LOM as a proxy for White Liberals. Perhaps you’re right, and there isn’t any common ground to be found anymore.
I can hope you’re wrong, but I can’t make it so. As Lucifer said in Constantine – “one does what one can”.
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@ Joshua
At each step you are trying to dismiss the criticism by dismissing those who made it. First as hypocritical and now as self-righteousness. INSTEAD of saying WHY the ACTUAL criticism is wrong. You are making an ad hominem argument, a logical fallacy. Even hypocrites and the self-righteous can be right.
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@joshua
Your argument is basically a “not all” argument. So I will simply ask the question of who said ALL whites or ALL white Liberals? I’ll wait. In the mean times what was said about Lord Of Mirkwood does not and has not changed.
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@Mary Burrell
I agree and that is a perfect quote.
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@ Joshua
“I’m reading a lot here about what “white people should do”, and not any self-reflection that blacks should engage in, or things they “should do”.”
Maybe because we have respectability politics thrown in our faces all the time. Welcome to seeing things from a different perspective.
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@abagond
Nope. I’m mostly doing the same thing you and other commenters are – focusing on motives rather than actions in the criticism. Doesn’t feel so hot on the receiving end, no? I made no ad hominem arguments at all.
Example? ” The only thing people are telling you is that you are not immune from certain moods and attitudes associated with white people.”
I’m sure that black posters would by and large love that coming back in the other direction…. Now how is that helpful to anyone – you, him, me….?
“Even hypocrites and the self-righteous can be right.” And a stopped clock is right twice a day. But it is lousy at the job it’s supposed to be doing.
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@joshua
“I’m reading a lot here about what “white people should do”, and not any self-reflection that blacks should engage in, or things they “should do”. Whites “need to have a come to Jesus meeting” in regards to white racism, for example, yet all I see in that statement is another example of racism.”—Black people are asked every day in media, on comment boards, and so forth to self-reflect and change our ways. Usually this is the rhetoric every time white criticism comes about. Very few if anyone really puts hard criticism to white people. Every time it happens on blogs such as this the response usually is “what about black on black crime.” Talk derails and then whites get to escape criticism another day.
“It sure in unfortunate in my mind that whites who are trying to make things better get knifed in the back because their soul or rhetoric or whatever isn’t pure enough to be considered an ally – as if those doing the knifing are so pure and sinless they have any right to be casting such stones.”—LOM is not a white ally. He just pretends to be. He has made several comments along the lines of we should take what we can get. Not to mention his lie about all white people argument is falsely claims people are making, but has yet to make a comment acknowledging he has lied. If a person can lie like that and then claim to be a victim then he is no ally I want on my side.
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@sharinalr
Nope. I’m saying working for perfection in your allies is a loser strategy. They’re never going to be any more perfect than you. I never stated anything about “all” anything. Is a loser strategy what you want? For example, do you think that those two girls interrupting Bernie Sanders made a positive difference in any situation?
@bygodsloveandgrace
And the “they should”s aren’t any better or worse coming from them than it is from you. Shit is shit.
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@joshua: Wow, sounds like someone is having a little tantrum here. The fact that you are angry and defensive is your whiteness showing. So here you come running to help poor Mirkwood. Well boo effing hoo. You think because you are white that you shouldn’t be called out on your b.s. If you can’t take the heat get out of the kitchen. You and Mirkwood need to cowboy up and grow a pair.
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“I made no ad hominem arguments at all.”—Actually you did. You did not refute there arguments but focused more so on what they are doing. Attacks against the individual and not what they claimed.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ad%20hominem
ijs
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@joshua
Yet no one is asking him to be perfect. I can think of several white allies on this very blog who are not perfect, but have presented similar criticisms to LOM before any POC said a thing.
“I never stated anything about “all” anything. Is a loser strategy what you want?”—I never said you did, but you are using the “not all” argument as can be seen here: Whites are no more monolithic than blacks, or asians, or latinos. Some whites are trying to make things better, others like things they way they are, and other will try and make things worse.
This is not necessary of a statement if you are not trying to point that very thing out. No one said anything about whites being monolithic.
“Is a loser strategy what you want?”—I did not have any strategy that you did not apply. Please do not start with the strawmen.
” For example, do you think that those two girls interrupting Bernie Sanders made a positive difference in any situation?”—Don’t know anything about that.
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@joshua
I think you need to re-read my statement (let it sink in) and also read abagond’s blog with an open mind. You are being incredibly defensive and not really paying attention.
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@Sharinalr
No, Sharinalr, I did not. The conversation had turned to the attitude and motives of one poster. That at the beginning may indeed have been ad hominem by whomever started that, but it wasn’t me. I merely continued in the save mode with the attitudes and motives of those attacking him for his attitudes. If that isn’t wanted as a topic of discussion, it shouldn’t be started.
As far as the “not all whites” part of your argument is concerned, you missed the point. I mentioned the three subgroups to point out that attacking the subgroup that is the mostly likely to work towards what YOU want is counterproductive. I really really really don’t care past that point about “not all anything.” YMMV. Hell, vote for conservative Republicans if you think they’re just the same as liberals.
A question isn’t a “strawman”. It WAS rhetorical. You’re never going to get the perfect ally. “Whites” as a group are never going to have a “come to Jesus” discussion.
The two BLM girls interrupting and getting cancelled a speech by Bernie Sanders was and is all over the news…..
Good Night!
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@Mary Burrell
So far we’ve had a rather civil discussion here, with two exceptions: you and Kiwi.
You were saying about tantrums?
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@joshua
“I merely continued in the save mode with the attitudes and motives of those attacking him for his attitudes.”—Continuing in “save mode” as you call it still does not mean you did not engage in ad hominem. You did not even address what was said by said posters to determine what the issue was. You just went on the “shame on you” trail. The definition is clear and you are an example of it.
“you missed the point.”—I did not miss the point. You are likely just shifting goal posts. That statement alone makes it clear what your point was. Stating whites are not a monolithic does not illustrate that you are trying to point out which group is more likely to work for us. If you think so then you need to try again on that because all you really did was argue “not all”. I would not vote for a Republican either. I don’t believe in voting for the less of the two evils.
“A question isn’t a “strawman”. It WAS rhetorical. You’re never going to get the perfect ally. “Whites” as a group are never going to have a “come to Jesus” discussion.”—I did not say it was. I stated do not start with the strawmen because that is what you question was going to lead to. Yet who said anything about wanting a perfect ally? That actually is a strawman though.
“The two BLM girls interrupting and getting cancelled a speech by Bernie Sanders was and is all over the news….”—I don’t watch the news. 😉
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@Joshua
I have heard your argument before presented in a different way. Aha! Fox News ( yes we watch Fox News in Africa too)!where black people are told to stop whining about police killings and focus instead on “black on black crime”- I abhor that phrase. So, we are supposed to ignore extra-judicial killings by police and focus only on black on black crime, which has its roots in poverty imposed on African Americans and other minorities by people in power-whites. The fact remains that most white people ignore the sufferings of minorities and get irritated when confronted because of just that.
Joshua, white people are humans and they can be selfish and conceited just like any other humans. Maybe if you can just admit that you are human it wouldn’t be so hard to take criticism.
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@all,
I will have to acknowledge that people might seem to be ganging up on L of M, but I think it is more akin to discussing the eating habits of monitor lizards when, lo and behold, a specimen is brought up before the class whose behaviour is consistent with the prior discussion.
@Sharina,
Regarding to whether one is actually lying, I think it is more a case of not being self-aware, and then rewriting the narrative to fit in with one’s world perspective.
Take the monitor lizard example.
Imagine we are having a 5th grade show and tell, and in the prior class, we had a gila monster and in this class we have a monitor lizard. We mention that both lizards are venomous and carnivorous.
The monitor lizard specimen steps up and says, WHOA!, It is the gila monster that is carnivorous. “We” are frugivorous (showing a picture of himself eating a fruit). We have venom only to protect ourselves (snaps up a frog hopping on the side), unlike the gila monster, which uses its venom to catch prey, we only use it only to protect ourselves (meanwhile he bites a rat which just ran by and who is succumbing to its venom).
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I will end the night by saying liars help no cause, but can sure as heck hurt one.
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@jefe
“Regarding to whether one is actually lying, I think it is more a case of not being self-aware, and then rewriting the narrative to fit in with one’s world perspective.”—Okay I will agree with that and try to view it as more of him not being self aware. His refusal to try to take steps to be more aware still can not help our cause.
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@sharinalr..What Joshua is referring to is that 2 Black Lives Matter protestors apparently “shut down” Bernie Sanders’ event in Seattle today. What Joshua doesn’t explain is the WHY? The fact that Bernie previously has been indifferent to the BLM movement but now all of a sudden is slowly having a change of heart.
http://www.theroot.com/articles/news/2015/08/black_lives_matter_protesters_shut_down_bernie_sanders_at_seattle_rally.html?wpisrc=topstories
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Obviously, a nerve was touched and it’s the same typical response from commenters like him to respond defensively. This Joshua individual reminds me of the people that try to shut down the black lives matter activist. He obviously feels black people shouldn’t be talking back to white people, when they do the same thing to black people telling them what they should be doing.
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@ taotesan
Thanks for the Steve Biko quotes!
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@ Jefe
I do not know enough to do “The White Liberal’s Guide to Asians”. If you or Kiwi want to do a guest post that would be great. Or if you or anyone wants to point me towards politicians I should consider as examples, that would be great too.
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@ Uriel
When I wrote this, I considered naming it the “Democrat’s Guide to Black People”, just for consistency with the other posts, but “White Liberal” fits it better. Their racism is more glaring because they think they “get” it and yet do the stuff in the post.
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@ All
NOTE: Going forward on this thread, I will be deleting all posts that call Lord of Mirkwood a racist without backing it up.
Not to protect his feelings, but to force some clarity onto the thread.
To call Lord of Mirkwood racist or Eurocentric you must:
1. Directly quote something he said, either on this blog or his.
2. Say where you got the quote from.
3. Explain why it is racist.
That way we deal in facts instead of unedifying name-calling. And, hopefully, Lord of Mirkwood (and liberal lurkers) will be enlightened.
Thank you.
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@Lord of Mirkwood
Saying you are a liar is not a claim. I quoted where you lied. If you read through the thread you will realize my premise for calling you a liar had to do with what you wrote on YOUR blog. All these quote of mine you decided to quote and unpack have little to do with it.
“That is a very serious accusation, and the burden of proof is on the prosecution.”—Too bad I provided proof, but saying you have racial tendencies does not equal me calling you a racist. You tried to connect a dot that was not there to connect. Try again. Plus if it was me calling you racist then abagond would have just deleted right?
“Stop making everything about you! Sometimes it’s not time to discuss Sandra Bland, sometimes it’s time to talk about lions! “—-If you want to mourn Cecil try doing on your own blog. The post was not about Cecil and the fact that you carelessly tried to flood someone elses blog about a serious issue as with the attitude of who cares about Sam Dubose is telling in and of itself.Especial when you were an example of what the very blog was talking about.
““On some thread, somewhere, you talked down to someone and offended them.””—That is pretty far from what I actually said. I said “Another example is your idea of knowing what is best for black people.” Again not sure what thread, but I do believe Kiwi tore you a new one for you paternalistic ideas of you know better even though he was explaining to you that such things do not work for POC.
” Basically, just because you or Mary say that I’m racist or whatever, does not mean it’s Gospel truth.”—Actually it is not because I or Mary say so, but because you proved so. Many of the behaviors and mannerism you display are things abagond have written on as signs of a person is racist. For several posts people have pointed it out to you and some may have even directed you to posts about it. Each time you shrug it off as no big deal. Now you are on a thread where you provide an example without anyone asking. Save the tears for someone who cares.
FYI it is amazing what people reveal online when they think they are anonymous. I don’t have to know you to realize clearly what you are saying in your posts.
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@Kiwi and Mary
Thank both of you for just telling it like it is and not even bothering to explain to people who act as if they have no clue.
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@bygodsloveandgrace
Thank you for providing that information. I had no real clue what he was talking about to really address it. It looks like a fake concern for votes.
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@Abagond
Will you be deleting comments from people who want us to babysit them too. The guys who want us to chew the food for them and spit it into their mouths-the babes.Like people who keep on recycling arguments that Faux News has been dumping into their minds? Just asking?
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@Abagond
Well done.
@Mary Burrell
You keep projecting, Mary. The only person getting hostile and defensive in this thread is you.
Did someone say black people “shouldn’t talk back?” If you think that talking back helps your goals (or not) by all means, talk back. What I saw were two very rude little girls ruining a chance for some people to hear the most liberal candidate for President we’ve had in decades. Your response makes me wonder if they truly represent the BLM movement or not….if they do, the credibility of the movement suffers…Again, attacking the segment of the population most in-line with and sympathetic to the BLM movement’s goals is not a winning strategy.
@sharinalr
IF I was engaging in ad hominem, then so was everyone else as the discussion itself had devolved to that. So why the particular focus? And I have addresses some of the criticism, not all. You don’t want to see it, and you still don’t get the point I was making. My fault for not being clearer I suppose.
Abagond rightfully is going to steer the discussion away from that focus now.
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Lordy, may or may not be a complete racist but he has given ample proof that he draws from the same well as complete racists. His lame excuses for Napoleon’s slaughter of 20% of the free black people of Guadeloupe, the re-enslavement of the rest and the attempt to do same in St-Domingue is ‘evidence’ in my opinion that he should be tarred with the same brush at least in this instance.
He wrote:
” In January 1802, Napoleon sent a French army to Haiti to suppress the government of former slaves. The French forces earned notoriety for the atrocities they committed there, and were castigated as the epitome of dishonor for pretending to call a truce with L’Overture, luring him onto a French ship, and carting him off to a prison in France, where he would eventually die.” What’s racist about this quote you might ask? The bit about describing L’Ouverture’s government as that of former slaves because the only former slave in that government was L’Ouverture himself and he hadn’t been a slave since at least 20-30 years! I concluded that former slave was used here as synonym for black. Originally, our hero claimed it was a slave government! He changed his tune only after I explained to him that such claim was an oxymoron. That wasn’t the only thing I had to set him straight on.
https://lordofmirkwood.wordpress.com/2015/05/31/napoleon/
Our hero used the hoary lie that Napoleon only restored slavery because of economic necessity. “True, he did reinstate slavery in France’s Caribbean colonies (even though there is no evidence that his doing so was based on ideological rather than economic motives – same with Thomas Jefferson). And true, I would prefer the Revolutionary Republic to an Emperor, but Napoleon was a hundred times better than the Bourbons. ” https://lordofmirkwood.wordpress.com/2015/06/20/ive-made-up-my-mind-on-napoleon/
Unfortunately for him and other liars of his ilk his hero clearly and unambiguously stated his purpose: “My decision to destroy the authority of the blacks in Saint Domingue (Haiti) is not so much based on considerations of commerce and money, as on the need to block for ever the march of the blacks in the world— Napoleon Bonaparte” http://toussaintlouverturehs.org/quotes.htm
Lordy’s ignorance takes my breath away. It is a lie that the Bourbons were worse than Boney on the issue of race, whereas Louis XIV enacted the Code Noir, Louis XV wanted to abolish slavery or at least stated a desire to do so. The mixed-race classical music composer, dubbed the black Mozart, the Chevalier De Saint-Georges (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevalier_de_Saint-Georges) and other mixed-race people such as Alex Dumas (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas-Alexandre_Dumas), the father of the novelist Alexendre Dumas were part of aristocratic circles under Louis XVI. They were all purged by our ‘anti-racist’s’ hero Boney.
Abagond, if you have trouble seeing racism in our hero’s claims, somebody should revoke your “Race Grievance Industry”, RGI , card. The last sentence was meant as a joke.
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@joshua
You claimed you were not (I quoted you saying as much), so to try to say everyone else does it is a bit childish and now also another fallacy you have committed. I only decided to point out that you were. No one else screamed they were not.
“And I have addresses some of the criticism, not all.”—You actually have not addressed any of the criticism, because I wager you don’t really know what he is being criticized for. You assume based on limited information, but assumptions typically get people nowhere.
“ou still don’t get the point I was making.”—I get the point you now want to claim you are making, but as I stated above. What you wrote and what you claim it meant are not the same thing.
“Abagond rightfully is going to steer the discussion away from that focus now.”—He is not steering us away, but allowing us the opportunity to provide evidence that supports the criticism that LOM is getting. I am going to enjoy this segment of the discussion.
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@Joshua
“What I saw were two very rude little girls ruining a chance for some people to hear the most liberal candidate for President we’ve had in decades. Your response makes me wonder if they truly represent the BLM movement or not….if they do, the credibility of the movement suffers…Again, attacking the segment of the population most in-line with and sympathetic to the BLM movement’s goals is not a winning strategy.”
Two rude little girls? Those were protestors; they wanted him to speak openly about BLM, which he did after that protest. That keyhole you are looking through is a little tiny for objective thought. I would do the same thing if someone I love is killed without facing any proper judicial process.
“Again, attacking the segment of the population most in-line with and sympathetic to the BLM movement’s goals is not a winning strategy.”
Wow, so you think you have the mandate to decide who African Americans should think support them more. I have relatives in USA and I would make all the loudest noise until justice is done just like those “little girls”.
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@Lord of Mirkwood
I suggest you read what the Sam Dubose thread was actually about and not get blinded by the picture of the Lion. The focus of that thread was to show that white people cared more about the Lion than they did a dead man. You flooded the post proving the point. Congrats.
“How is “racial tendencies” different from “racist?””—Anyone can have racial tendencies and not be full blown racist. When I call you a racist it will not be a result of me beating around the bush. As such you have stated several times you don’t care about black people’s feelings or what they think. If you don’t care about that how can you be an ally working towards anything in our benefit?
“And even if you didn’t call me racist, Mary said it straight up: “I too find you racist and condescending…””—Then take that up with Mary, but she is less likely to coddle you or care than I am. My issue is that you told a flat out full blown lie and want to sit here like you did not do sh**. Still talking out of both sides of your mouth and still have not been able to admit you did.
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@Abagond
If I was wrong about what “What if Sam Dubose had been a beloved lion?” thread was about please let me know.
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@LOM: ROTFLMAO: You are a joke black people don’t need some loser mofo like you on our team. You are delusional. Anti racist ally my ass. You need to go get a job at Ringling Brothers I hear they need clowns. Take that other wanker Joshua with you. Both of you are fools. I done. Several cyber space middle fingers to the both of you.
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@L o M,
Is it even possible for white liberals to be racist? Can you think of an example?
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@Mary Burrell
I was shocked at your response, but LMAO at the same time. I knew you did not care, but dang.
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“Liberal” and “conservative” are terms that denote how Whites view each other. In the White community, liberal is the new code word for “n%#*er lover” and conservative is the new code for “anti-Black”. But Malcolm X could not have said it any better – “The liberal is the fox who plays with the rabbit before killing it and the conservative is the wolf who goes straight for the kill.”
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OK Abagond,
I am the person that said Lord of Mirkwood is Eurocentric because he DOES think like the typical white American person – why is that a bad thing to say?
Black, Latino, and Asian Americans also hold certain Eurocentic viewpoints because they were born, raised, and have been indoctrinated just like white American people.
I’m Jamaican and even I hold certain Eurocentric viewpoints because Jamaica is a former British colony and the British mindset permeates our culture and education system.
But the difference between people of colour versus white people, is that we also live a separate Truth based on our ethnic/cultural heritage and ancestral history.
And POC hold a different and separate set of Viewpoints based off our Life experiences —in conjunction, with our white western viewpoints of the world, which was taught to us in school, church, and by the media.
That’s why people of colour living in white majority countries, are always in perpetual conflict with ourselves, because we are also by-products of the white western world.
And those of us who seek enlightenment, are doing our best to shake off the Eurocentric white-washing that we were raised with.
whereas, white people have no such conflict of dual cultural viewpoints because they belong to the dominate culture in America and their ethnic heritages are celebrated and not looked down upon —
I love St. Patricks Day, gives me another excuse to drink Guinness
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As far as this whole argument about the death of Cecil vs black American lives
We all know that white people care more about animals than human beings – they kiss their dogs on the mouth and put the small ones in bags and strollers for Gods sakes! so the Cecil outrage should have surprised no one
I will say I’m glad Lord of Mirkwood brought up Cecil because I love animals
and I was hoping you would see the Lion’s death from the angle of how Africa’s wild life and natural resources are still being exploited and diminished by the Western world and now the East.
Being that this is your blog and you can write about what you want, I wish you would focus on the injustices happening to non-American black and brown people around the world, because they are suffering too and need attention.
Europe will be getting ready to have a big Nationalist and Fascist revolution that might spark the next wave of xenophobic “final solutions” against black and brown people
because as history has shown, white Europeans cannot tolerate living with foreigners and right now, they feel “over run” with Africans and middle east refugees
This situation needs attention because Israel is leading the way with their concentration camps for African refugees.
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@Linda
“We all know that white people care more about animals than human beings – they kiss their dogs on the mouth”—-LOL. Not to make light of what you said, but this reminds me of those women who kiss their dogs knowing good well their dog engaged in a** sniffing and turd chewing.
On a serious not I do think this blog could use some around the world type recognition articles. I, myself, am curious on more insight in regards to this french panel that wanted to discuss reducing Africa’s black population.
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note*
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That being said, Abagond, I will take up your challenge as to why I think Lord of Mirkwood is Eurocentric
and
totally obliviousblind to the views and feelings of people of colour:His exchange with Kiwi about the formation of Israel vs USA and US occupation of Japan. Here are samples and the starting link to that exchange:
the fact that he could not see that the British
invaderscolonists employed terrorist tactics to gain the very land they settled on, to form the 13 colonies/USAindicates to me, that LOM is only viewing the countries history from a “white” standpoint and not viewing it from the side of the people being invaded – the Native Americans.
The Israeli’s were wrong but the British settlers in America were in “the right” to fight over land that was not even theirs —
I’m quite sure that the Native Americans felt like they were under a terrorist attack by these foreign occupiers.
Eurocentric or blind, which one fits?
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@abagond
I don’t think I know enough either. But maybe collectively, we know enough to have a basic idea.
This is how I see it (work in progress):
Republican: The problem with blacks is their culture. Asians are not white and suffered discrimination in the past, but their culture has pulled them through. They even make more money than whites.
Society’s problems stem from blacks, so they need to be controlled, if not taught a lesson. Any social program would disproportionately benefit blacks, not whites. Don’t give blacks too much power, or they will destroy the country.
Asians: it is safe to basically ignore, except to push them as a role model for blacks. Still they are basically foreigners and anti-American, so we can’t give them too much power either.
Latino immigrants are also ruining this country. We need people who respect “American” values.
White Liberal: The problem with blacks is the end product of slavery and past discrimination from long ago. That is the past as there is no more racial discrimination, but it has left a lot of black people poor. So, we can help blacks by addressing poverty. It’s class, not race. We can help the country as a whole by looking past race (and try to find the underlying causes). Anyhow, race issues are too complicated to fathom so we should focus on the other barriers. After all, upper middle-class blacks made it, so the system can accommodate all.
Asians are immigrants like any European immigrant. Like the Irish and Italians who experienced discrimination before them, they will have problems being accepted into America at first. What is holding Asians back, then, is lack of assimilation and poor English skills. Once they master these (in a couple hundred years) then their barriers will disappear.
Since they are “newcomers”, they never had to experience forced labour or Jim Crow like blacks, or ethnic cleansing and genocide like Native Americans. Also, as “newcomers” we can expect that they will still have sympathy for and identity with their countries of origin.
–> White liberals, even more than Republicans, have rewritten the narrative about Asian Americans, and basically erased anything before 1968. If anything, they are more guilty of the perpetual foreigner trope than Republicans. Republicans believe that Asian cultural and social values are better than blacks, but still they retain a spontaneous inclination to turn evil because of their race.
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Also, he thinks that Japan Wanted the US Army in their country after WW2-
like the Japanese had a Choice after the US government just dropped an Atomic bomb on their heads and took over their government after Japan surrendered,
the American propaganda machine has always put forth that nonsense that the US Army was invited by the Japanese people – and LOM sipped and regurgitated that shot of kool-aide without missing a beat.
So, isn’t LOM viewpoint about Japan being occupied, in ”lock-step” with what he has learned, as a product of the white America media and education system – ie Eurocentric viewpoint.
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sharinalr @ I, myself, am curious on more insight in regards to this french panel that wanted to discuss reducing Africa’s black population.
Linda says,
Sharina, it’s a big problem in Europe but doesn’t get much American media attention.
Christine Lagarde did an interview on the BBC discussing this
and I tell you, I like Christine but she gave me chills.
she truly showed me just how Europeans still look at Africa as a land that they can control and exploit, as well as the contempt they feel for the African people.
If I find it, I will post the u-tube.
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funny guide and true.
every time i hear a politician address the problems of a minority neighborhood or community with “police brutality is just a symptom of a larger, more complicated set of issues and…” i know that i might as well have heard “look, you know how it is with those people.”
the solutions to these problems are easy. crime, poverty, IQ, etc.
so many blacks live in concentrated poverty; getting them in to better neighborhoods and schools will work. for the brief period of time it was tried
—
http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/06/us/seneca-teen-dead-police-shooting/
this is an unarmed white man who was killed by police, who are likely lying about the circumstances surrounding his death.
the police state and police brutality is a fine example of racism in the US. it hurts whites (not as much as it hurts minorities, but even the white incarceration rate is the highest in the world). however, the media frames all police issues as racial issues, which animates whites in the former CSA. and their response is to completely block or refuse to hear it. they will not take action to help themselves if it means minorities may benefit.
american politics = race.
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@Linda
Please do post it.
@swank
“they will not take action to help themselves if it means minorities may benefit.”—This sums it up greatly. Whites know the cops are killing them as well, but many look for any excuse not to join any movement at all. Cops killing whites are just methods to shut up POC from talking about their struggles.
I have ran across so many whites that talk a good game and when I even ask them about racism, then they scream “all you want to do is fight the white man.”
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@Linda, as usual you make some excellent points!
“You need to go get a job at Ringling Brothers I hear they need clowns. Take that other wanker Joshua with you. Both of you are fools. I done. Several cyber space middle fingers to the both of you.” @Mary B., LmmfaOoo I needed a good laugh today, thank you fellow queen! X-D
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I have ran across so many whites that talk a good game and when I even ask them about racism, then they scream “all you want to do is fight the white man.”
tards from Kentucky say things like “we vote on principles not on our personal interests,” which is the exact opposite of how the political system in the United States was designed to work. they are voting on the hope that one day they may own slaves…I mean hit the economic jackpot.
but really, they are voting for the reasons I say they are.
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@ Lord of Mirkwood
And you didn’t. The only comment you made on the Dubose thread was this:
Nothing about Dubose. Not even close.
On the thread for “What if Sam Dubose had been a beloved lion?” you made eight comments, all of them about Cecil or lions. Right out of the box, the third comment on the whole thread, without missing a beat, you said:
Nothing about Dubose, then or later. Like he did not matter, or at least not as much as a lion. Proving the point of the post, particularly this part of it:
That is racist.
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@Abagond: That’s what i am talking about. Thanks.
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@ Kiwi
Excellent points about Joshua and how he too is an example of this post.
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@Kiwi: Excellent points indeed.
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direct quote form LOM, “Trust me, my reaction to the Sandra Bland case was NOTHING compared to what I felt when I heard about Cecil. Animals are being driven to extinction by the barbaric practice of hunting.
“https://lordofmirkwood.wordpress.com/2015/07/31/cecil-the-lion/
puke.
There are so many examples from his blog but another one that really got me was his bothering a woman who runs a blog about comfort woman, because LOM is a comfort woman denier, it’s so sickening to think he would actually take the time out to leave comments on this woman’s blog. He disgusts me.
@Mary Burrell”,You are delusional. Anti racist ally my ass. You need to go get a job at Ringling Brothers I hear they need clowns. Take that other wanker Joshua with you. Both of you are fools.” LMAO
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@ Lord of Mirkwood
LMAO. That makes Gro Jo’s latest comment even more damning:
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@ Lord of Mirkwood
Right, no one expects you to be here 24/7. But you did find the time to write nine comments on two threads about Sam Dubose without ever saying anything him, not even so much as an RIP that you found time to give to Cecil.
That post was not about Cecil. It was about how (White) people were making such a huge deal over him, which is fine, but not over Dubose, which is not so fine. Which is exactly what you were doing. Your comments were not off topic, but not in the way you think. Just like your comments earlier on this thread on Republican racism.
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Anyway, this post is pretty spot on. Liberal racism appears more frequently in a color-blind form and that is reflected in the politics.
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@ Origin
I deleted your second-to-last comment. This thread is currently still in the mode where you cannot call Lord of Mirkwood racist without quoting something he said and explain why it is racist:
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OK, that’s fine. I didn’t notice that because I responded to sharina’s response to Linda before getting to that post. I rarely make personal comments about individual posters anyway so I guess it’ll stay that way!
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@Kiwi
On point. I figured his defense was less LOM and more him.
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@vanishingpoint
I do believe you have the winning comment in pointing out some obvious issues in his mental state in regards to POC.
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@ Jefe
Thanks for the comment on Asians and White Liberals. Now that I think of it, I have written at several posts that have to do with White Liberal ideas about Asians:
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“Lord of Mirkwood,
However, if you cease to view it from a strictly Afrocentric perspective, the Bourbon monarchy was eminently worse than anything that followed it.”
Linda says,
if anyone needs to change their “viewpoint” it’s you — you are on a blog that focuses on issues concerning black people and other people of colour.
not everything is about black and white– there are many layers to historical events that have been steadily ignored
so to suggest that everyone should continue to view history from the DEFAULT white viewpoint that we were all indoctrinated with, is silly
the GOAL, grasshopper, is to learn and acknowledge information that Did not make it into the standard, default white-washed textbooks of America.
White people wrote the history books you read– not Afrocentrics, who by the way, didn’t get the opportunity to make the “African” viewpoint the default point of view
If you are indeed an “ally” to the causes of black people, then you have a funny way of showing it.
you want black people to continue to view history and their reality thru white American lenses;
while you lazily remain in your white American lane, instead of seeing things through the eyes of black Americans and other people of colour … you’ve got jokes LOM
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@Linda: That was superb.
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Lordy wrote: “Haha. So maybe I was wrong about certain aspects of Napoleonic ideology. However, if you cease to view it from a strictly Afrocentric perspective, the Bourbon monarchy was eminently worse than anything that followed it. In France itself, the working class was starved of food and money while King Adolf Hitler Louis and Queen Marie Witch Antoinette lived the high life. France was governed by a rigid caste system, like Hindu India, that locked people into a certain social status and used government force to keep them there. Something that neither Napoleon nor any leaders of the French Republic(s) did. King Louis may have let token “house Negroes” into his court, but only from the most narrow of viewpoints would that make him better than what came after.”
Abagond, if everybody must quote something Lordy wrote, and state why they believe it to be racist or Eurocentric, the same rule should apply to him as well.
Prove that what I wrote was Afrocentric. I didn’t bring the Chevalier de Saint-Georges and Alex Dumas in this conversation to show that things were better for blacks under the Bourbons and worse under Boney. My point was to show the steady progress of blacks and mixed race people under the system that spanned the rule of the Bourbons, the Republic and Boney. You seem to forget, if you ever knew it, that one third of the land and a quarter of the slaves of St-Domingue belonged to blacks and mixed raced people who had no rights as citizens, some of them were quite wealthy! In other words, even under the most deadly regime of racial oppression, steady progress was made by people of color. that fact gives the lie to the type of patronizing racism you’ve displayed here.
That progress is what Boney set out to block when he stated: “My decision to destroy the authority of the blacks in Saint Domingue (Haiti) is not so much based on considerations of commerce and money, as on the need to block for ever the march of the blacks in the world”.
You see Saint-Georges as a “house Negro”, Boney had his own house Negroes who would kill and die for him despite his policy of re-enslavement, i.e. returning to the rule of Louis XIV and his Code Noir.
The lesson you are hellbent on not learning is that Bourbon, Republican and Imperial Boney France had one thing in common when it came to blacks, they saw them as objects,as means to an end, akin to what you and your buddy Joshua do when you see blacks simply as means to elect your latest liberal hero, who may find it expedient to come down hard on blacks, as various white saviors have done in the past.
The best illustration of that fact was the life of Victor Hugues, the white emancipator of Guadeloupe. He freed the slaves in 1794, when he needed an army to resist the British, yet this same ’emancipator’, in 1799, restored slavery in French Guyana. I hope you’ll be able to dimly perceive why your anti-racism meets with so much skepticism? The history of white betrayal is extremely long.
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Lord of Mirkwood
“Trust me, my reaction to the Sandra Bland case was NOTHING compared to what I felt when I heard about Cecil. Animals are being driven to extinction by the barbaric practice of hunting.”
Animals are being driven to extinction by poaching not by big game hunts. That’s why men with guns patrol game parks at night to keep poachers out.
Cecil was culled at 13 years when the average age that lions live to is 14 to 15 years. You can object to the idea of big game hunts but you have no right to dictate to Africans how to run their game parks. Being against big game hunts is in itself not racist but supporting laws that would interfere why how Africans run their game parks or prohibiting the import of legally culled animals would have the same economic affects that racist laws create. Africans would suffer economic loss because white people like yourself can’t help but interfere with the lives of black people.
Here’s a question for you Mirkwood. Have you learned anything from this blog that has caused you to change any of your beliefs that you held before you came to this site?
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*with how
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@sharinalr
“Thank you for providing that information. I had no real clue what he was talking about to really address it. It looks like a fake concern for votes.”
Any time. I happen to like some things about Bernie. He’s the male version of Elizabeth Warren and I think would hold the banks more accountable for putting us in an economic spiral to begin with. I’m still learning more about him but he’s very appealing.
That said, he’s from a state with a 1% Black population and a few weeks ago was very indifferent to issues affecting Black America. If you’re going to run for office, I would at least like to hear him genuinely acknowledge some of the social, economic and judicial disparities in the Black community. He basically shrugged off the BLM movement in the beginning but is now slowly changing his tune. In fact, he’s been growing a platform on racial injustice. Like all politicians the proof is in the pudding. We shall see… We still have a LONG way to 2016!
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Mirkwood
“My position: anybody can be an anti-racist so long as they have the right convictions, make good policy proposals, and be willing to condemn racism that they see around them.”
What are the “right convictions” that you are referring too?
For me it starts with admitting that we live in a white centric world that has led to white supremacy being the most destructive movement on the planet. Its admitting that the West, Europe as well as the Soviet Union view their politics through a white centric lens. That their governments, their justice systems, their economics all evolve around being white.
If you can’t admit that then your convictions aren’t grounded in reality. That means that you will be attempting to use politics to bring about change in a system that’s rooted in white supremacy. That makes it about as effective as trying to make “good policy proposals” for the Jews while Hitler was in power.
I’m not sure how you can “condemn racism” while simultaneously denying your own.
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@abagond
Thanks for the links. Yes, you have touched on the topic before.
Maybe you do already have enough ideas to put together a post on the White Liberal Guide to Asians.
White Liberal view: Perpetual Foreign immigrants, but still “nice” (so nice in fact, that you can be racist towards them and still see it as harmless).
Trope:Charlie Chan or the characters in “Fresh off the Boat”.
Republican view: Able to adapt to, even “thrive” in American culture, but still evil by nature.
Trope: Yellow Peril, and any white saviour story where the “bad guys” are westernized Asians.
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@Linda,
Your last post nailed it.
@Michael John Barker
Yet lo and behold!
That is why I mentioned in several threads that he is not that self-aware.
Way back at the thread on Jefferson, he discussed how caring and considerate Jefferson was as he freed several of his slaves. Yet, of the 275 slaves he owned, the ones he freed on his death were his very own children, his mistress and the siblings of his wife or his mistress (ie, family), holding no cognitive dissonance about enslaving one’s own children and in-laws. Jefferson also set into motion policies that culminated into the Trail of Tears under Jackson.
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@Abagond
Please stop treating LOM like a baby. You reply to all his stupid comments and ignore some of our contributions and even block some of us for chastising him. Can we be balanced over here.
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^ I think it is not just for LoM himself, but for the edification of the liberal lurkers out there who are still hesitant to chime in (but who might have similar viewpoints).
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@ villagewriter
Babying him? On this thread? I am outing him. The thread was degenerating into “I am not! You are too!” It had to be made crystal clear that he is racist. White Liberals like to think they are not racist. They pat themselves on the back for it because, you know, they are not like Those People, meaning those dreadful Republicans. They might be less racist, but they are still racist – and yet, as Joshua showed, want to be given a pass.
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@Abagond: I see what you did her. But i already said a lot of what everybody else is saying. I understand you wanted someone who was more eloquent but I know in my heart of hearts that Joshua poster was the prime example of what the post was trying to point out. And Mirkwood is just blind because of his white lens and his white washed upbringing.
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Black people don’t need Mirkwood on their team.
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@ Abagond
I understand your point of view but looking at most of LOM’s contributions it seems like he believes he knows what it feels like to be oppressed. With this belief, he feels he has every right to tell African Americans what they should consider as suffering or not. Its like when a man tells his wife to shut up when she is giving birth to a child. The man does not know the pain of birth but he feels like he has the right to control the birth process. But he can never really know the pain of giving birth until he gets pregnant and pushes out a child himself.
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@Abagond
“6. Rent a Negro.
There are tons of “articulate and bright and clean” Negroes out there who hold safe, White Liberal opinions – or at least know when to keep their mouth shut.”
The articulate part is so spot-on. What I have realized over the years is that the only way to know someone is intelligent is by going back to the books and research to verify their claims. I have seen and watched many “experts” who were “articulate” saying nonsense and people listening nodding in agreement. I watched a documentary about Malcolm X where a black man with safe liberal opinions criticized Malcolm X for empowering black people to protect themselves from police brutality and racist attacks; and that’s before Selma happened
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@ Lord of Mirkwood
Try putting yourself in shoes of African Americans and before commenting, do a little research. Nobody is saying that you should not offer an opinion but please make it an informed opinion and accept criticism and open your mind to learn more. I myself cannot claim to know everything blacks in America go through. That is why I read about these issues and watch YouTube videos to listen to their point of view. My brother experiences racism in America. White people cross the road every time he moves to their side of the road. My brother is very harmless and very intelligent and the best person I know in the whole world but racism still holds him back and brands him as a threat.
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@ LoM
It’s completly off-topic, but your view of the Ancien Regime is very distorted. You’re completly buying into the narrative of the revolutionaries.
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Lordy wrote:
“Quite frankly, I don’t know why we’re talking about the history of France on a thread about American liberalism, but I’ll continue to indulge…” Let me help you with that, this thread is about you, a Boney worshiper, and the mental gymnastics, people like you go through to reconcile their racist tendencies and their ‘progressive’ rhetoric, got it?
“..Oh Gro Jo, you joker you, have you ever read about one of Napoleon’s first decrees upon his restoration in 1815? “From the date of the publication of the present decree, the slave trade is abolished. There shall not be permitted any expedition for this trade, either in the ports of France, or in those of our colonies.” A decree which was overturned once your beloved Bourbons resumed their position as concentration camp commandants…I mean, royalty.”
Oh my god, how mighty white of Boney to ‘restore’ something he worked so diligently to destroy! Being the ‘anti-racist’ you are, the fact that he signed a decree he was in no position to enforce, was more important than the hundreds of thousand he butchered when he removed French citizenship from blacks from 1801 to 1814!
From Louis XlV, to Victor Hugues to 1815 Boney and to you presently, the same mentality holds, blacks are to be used and cast aside until the next time their services are required.
Your inane comment illustrates my point: “These things are just going to hurt the Black Lives Matter movement instead of help it, because no one is going to want to listen to them after that obnoxious, arrogant shut-down. It just blew my lid, how they didn’t even give the most liberal candidate in America the opportunity to respond. I hope people here understand why I’m a little touchy about certain criticism of liberals?”
Yes I understand, you are a political wrangler, here to corral the black herd behind your liberal savior. Woodrow Wilson was that savior in 1912, once in office, he purged blacks from their federal posts, lavishly praised D.W. Griffith’s Birth of a Nation and took the nation to war.
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“…what did you all think of the Les Miserables video I posted? It still describes how you make me feel.” Who cares how you feel? You’re such attention whore.
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@Lord of Mirkwood
Take a BIG step back and let that sink in. Don’t react to it. Listen to it. Absorb it. Reflect on it. Empathize with those that are telling you. Don’t immediately defend against it. Just for kicks, play your own devil’s advocate and try to prove it true.
I’ll get you started: If this thread wasn’t about you, 90% of the comments would be “Off Topic”.
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Open Minded Observer, don’t waste your time asking Lordy to do something that’s not in his makeup. http://nilevalleypeoples.blogspot.com/
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Folks as a 7th generation Black Canadian whose ancestors came from the US of A, I come to this blog because it is succinct. I also come here to get a full array of viewpoints from my Black American brethren, regardless of their political slant. I don’t always post because I wish to learn, not continually ‘debate’ people’s viewpoint unless they trigger my funny bone. With that being said, I have often wondered why people bother to engage these white fcking loons. Supposed ‘allies'(what the fk is that anyway?)? They obfuscate the comments being made in that people seem to get side tracked into responding to them and actually engaging these loons in ‘debates’. These bungholes have no interest in learning otherwise they would just STFU and read the comments.
The fact that they feel free in insulting the intelligence of most of the posters here with asinine arguments and observations is a sterling example of the white racist liberal viewpoint. I have seen this since I started reading this blog. At least the HBD clowns were honest in their white racism. The difference between a liberal white and a conservative one is that one is a blatant liar and the other subtly so. I prefer to mock these white racists whatever their political ilk. I would not waste an iota of grey matter on these clowns. To you white racist mf(90% of them, and I am being modest in my estimations), I am under no obligation to respond to you and your ilk seriously. I do not wish to ‘debate’ you as you have no intentions of learning anything. The only thing you are interested in is reinforcing your esteem and by extension white supremacy. In short, you are full of bull dung.
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@ gro jo
I believe he identifies as anti-racist.
Ok seriously, for what it’s worth, I also feel that he’s not necessarily wrong all the time on the points he tries to make. The points are just irrelevant and he cannot see the forest for the trees.
Like a tire salesman standing in front of a milk crate on the ground and saying, “This car is crap. It needs four new tires or it will never work.” That’s not wrong. It won’t work without tires. However, that self-absorbed viewpoint fails to see beyond their own self-gratification from being “valuable” to the situation. Realizing that a completely new solution is needed and that you might not be the source for that solution is tough for people like that. However, keeping them on board with the idea that a solution is needed and encouraging them not to inhibit the solution and even empowering them to fight those that would inhibit the solution is not all bad is it?
So, that’s why I bother.
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“I believe he identifies as anti-racist. ” He does and I’ve praised him on occasions when our views coincide, such as his post on Debbie Schlussel.
Lordy, your naiveté seems to know no bounds. Wilson stole his 14 points from that ‘great satan’ of liberal public opinion known as V.I. Lenin, since you seem to claim expertise on that period, tell us why he plagiarized Lenin.
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Back to lurking – it’s become clear that dogma is too set in stone to have more than a meta-discussion on this thread.
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@Mary
“Black people don’t need Mirkwood on their team.”—–Exactly. Several posts and he has said nothing worth nothing.
All I hear is ” I’m a racist, but check out those republicans.”
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@Joshua
You spend too much time up in your feelings. If you want to go on lurking then lurk, but an announcement is not necessary.
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@Herneith: Yes m’am Miss Pam. My sentiments exactly. But be careful because you might get accused of projecting and being the one who is racist by Joshua, whom this thread is really about.
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@ Lord of Mirkwood
Tell that to the Haitians, Dominicans, Cubans and Nicaraguans.
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Lordy, the discussion isn’t about Lenin or Wilson. I was just curious to know what you knew about US diplomacy at that time, as expected, not much. As I’ve stated before, you’re an attention whore, I won’t continue this debate since your stock in trade is evasion of the issue, i.e. white liberals are allies, not friends, they should be treated as such. Cooperate with them when necessary and send them packing afterwards, that approach worked great against Hitler during WWII.
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@ All
You no longer have to prove that Lord of Mirkwood is a racist to call him one. There are more than enough evidence given above.
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@ joshua
What dogma, exactly?
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Wow,I feel so much better now. I thought I was imagining the whole thing. Joshua and Merkwood really are clowns.
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Mary, Sharina, Gro Jo, and everyone else
as we can see, Lord of Mirkwood has his fingers in his ears and he is singing, ” la la la la” in his effort to give us his middle finger
because he doesn’t want to admit that he doesn’t care about issues that concern black Americans and other people of colour
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But be careful because you might get accused of projecting and being the one who is racist by Joshua, whom this thread is really about.
I couldn’t give two hoots in Hades as to what some racist white man thinks.
Back to lurking – it’s become clear that dogma is too set in stone to have more than a meta-discussion on this thread.
There is no ‘dogma’ here as there are myriad viewpoints contained within this blog from commenters even ones such as yourself. You’d see this if you read the blog overall.
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With that being said, Lord of Mirkwood did bring up an interesting topic:
the 2 black women who interrupted Bernie Sanders, in the name of the Black Live Matter movement.
Interesting enough, 1 of these women, Marissa Johnson, is radical Christian who was a Sarah Palin supporter and Tea Party member
http://americannewsx.com/politics/alleged-blm-disruptor-marissa-jenae-admits-to-being-former-palin-supporter/
“Marissa Jenae, one of the two people associating themselves with BlackLivesMatter, was found to have posted some strange things on her Facebook account very recently. In one statement, she says that she used to be supporter of Sarah Palin,
and in another she said (in July of this year) that the GOP should have started “grooming” her long ago, and now they have to see her working for the “other side”. Screenshots of these come directly from her Facebook page.”
Marissa claims she has “switched sides” but she only recently joined a group called Outside Agitators 206, whose sole purpose is to declare war on the Democratic Party.
http://reverbpress.com/politics/black-lives-matter-seattle-protestor-is-a-former-tea-party-palin-fan/
It seems both ladies are biracial, and pulled a Rachel Dolezal by throwing braids in their hair and only recently starting claiming “black power”
On Twitter, Johnson uses the handle LSF Thot (@rissaoftheway) and describes herself as a “Radical Christian Mullatanist.” (tea party ???)
A press release issued by a Black Lives Matter Seattle Facebook page created yesterday uses the offensive hashtag #BowDownBernie and lists Johnson as a media contact.
The members of the Real Black Lives Matter group in Seattle, stated that “Marissa is a troublemaker, who always makes things worse when she and her group shows up.”
Marissa is a Troll and because white people believe ALL black people are monolithic,
white Liberals, of course, got their feelings hurt and are now mad at “black people” because of these 2 “black” Republican infiltrating spies.
Coons and coconuts, disguised as conscientious black people,
are on the move and want to destroy all the hard work and traction that has been gained in the last year by the real activists working for black people.
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@Linda: I didn’t know anything about that. That’s crazy. Wow, thanks for sharing. Trying to ruin the good work of Black Lives matter. I’m glad they were exposed.
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I always knew what Jerkwood was. But I must say this little exercise has been interesting.
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At least the HBD clowns were honest in their white racism
no they aren’t. it’s precisely because they cannot be honest that they need to deploy pseudoscience to “justify” their racism.
you should discuss with them sometime. the basic errors made demonstrate that it’s just motivated reasoning.
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Mary,
this news is recent, so I’m not sure how many people know about it but spread the word — they are trying to destroy the BLM movement.
This chick up until recently supported Sarah Palin and the Tea Party but now this year, she has seen the light??!
Everything they, Outside Agitators 206, has done has been recent. They just put up a webpage and they’ve been active since this year.
Either they are anarchists, masquerading as black activists or
they are “paid agitator” but who is footing the bill?
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@Linda
The odd thing is I am not even surprised. I felt it was only a matter of time before those actions were to take place after the black lives matter movement was in place. Too many people were waking up and in that situation you must employ tactics to knock it down. Many likely did not think that blacks would remain dedicated to the cause past that one instance.
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@ swank
Yeah. At one point this blog had several HBD type trolls.
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@ Linda
Wow.
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At one point this blog had several HBD type trolls.
all with a Galileo complex, I’m sure.
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As to LOM I found it comical how he tried to use any and everything to escape from facing his racist tendencies.
As if anyone really needed this thread of his direct quotes to realize that he has them. I was sold on him not being an ally when he said some racist crap and then had the nerve to ask “You want white allies don’t you?” As if black people should take what they can get.
As for Joshua, he wants everyone to sit here like children while he tells us how bad we are for pointing out obvious eurocentric views in LOM (the false allies) own quotes. Complained about how we were just calling LOM names. Then when we not only quoted LOM and explained why, he had not a darn thing to say other than how he will now return to lurking. *rolls eyes*
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@Joshua: Learn what a come to Jesus meeting is, it has nothing to do with being self righteous or holier than thou. It is a description of people like you and Merkwood who are racist and clueless and live in a white centric bubble. Do the work to be better. Don’t be jerks all your life. Get your heads out your anal orifices and open your minds and learn about black people and their struggle. Don’t be losers all your lives.
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@Lord of Mirkwood
Your six links only prove that you know how to call out other people’s racism, but do not care to call out, fix, or address your own.
Simply calling out racism does not mean you are anti-racist, especially when you turn around a do similar racist stuff.
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Mind you accusations with quotes can be damaging.
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@Lord of Mirkwood
According to YOUR quotes above. courtesy of everybody, there is most certainly a YOUR OWN.
The Crux of the matter is you don’t see it. Just as you saw no problem lying about what Mary, Jefe, and I actually said.
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Correction…I think you see it very well, but you want all to ignore it because you want to claim to be a white ally.
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@Lord of Mirkwood
You didn’t? 🙂
Exhibit A: My opponents were less charitable. Some of them (the ones I can remember off the top of my head) were Sharinalr, Jefe, Mary Burrell, and – best of all – my old friend Gro Jo! Their position was that all white people are inherently racist, by virtue of either having grown up soaking it in or simply by their descent. As they would have it, I am a racist whether I like it or not (funny, I’ve never seen black commenters treated with the same level of suspicion) and I shouldn’t waste time calling out Republicans for their racism since I’m, according to them, no better.
Please quote one thing from Me, Mary, and Jefe where we are saying that “ALL white people are inherently racist, by virtue of either having grown up soaking it in or simply by their descent.”
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If you can’t find anything them we can continue to call you a liar and then we can move on to Exhibit B.
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@Lord of Mirkwood
I barely say anything to you, so thank you for providing yet another lie to the pile.
Now please quote where I called YOU a racist and where I said ALL white people. Because all you did was provide a summary of what you think I said that does not seem to be what I can quote I actually said.
The double standard is the WE all had to provide proof you were a racist or eurocentric and you feel the need to say we said things or call us names with no proof.
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Another interesting fact….None of those people so happen to be Mary, Jefe, Me, or Gro Jo. Plus I provided evidence to my claims. So you are just blowing smoke out of your azz.
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@ All
The words “merde” and “tabarnak” are now moderated.
@ Lord of Mirkwood
Why do you curse in French?
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@ Abagond. My pleasure. Totally went over the (his) head.
The longer I live, the more I realize that almost all white people are incorrigible when it comes to racism.
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I am having quite a giggle: White racist liberal wants to be called an anti-racist and an ally. He calls his Black “allies” opponents and racists.
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@ Lord of Mirkwood
Unlike Mack Lyons or Origin, you maintain you are not racist.
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@Lord of Mirkwood
Yet you don’t quote me calling you a racist, you quote what you interpret as me calling you one and since you have proved to be a liar it amounts to nothing. Even more so it is a deflection because it does not show me saying “ALL white people are inherently racist, by virtue of either having grown up soaking it in or simply by their descent.” The thing that got you called a liar.
“I do not display, nor ever have displayed, any “issues”, but you insisted that I did. “—But your quote says otherwise and the mere fact that you picked out a few gentlemen to say they did it too suggest not only do you know you said racist things, but you want to excuse it because they did it too.
“I again ask you, why?”—-I did not say anything to you even though I noticed it until on the “it’s not race, but class” thread. A thread neither of them spoke on.
“You did not explicitly say “all” while people.”—Then you can simply say that you lied and move on.
“Again, why did you not object when HipHopRecords/Origin/Mack Lyons said racist sh-t, but assaulted me when I didn’t?”—I am sorry I don’t read everybodies comments, but please feel free to notify me next time they make a racist comment vs you think it is racist. Your credibility is zero with me.
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@taotesan
“White racist liberal wants to be called an anti-racist and an ally. He calls his Black “allies” opponents and racists.”—lol
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Mirkwood said that some had said ….
“ALL white people are inherently racist, by virtue of either having grown up soaking it in or simply by their descent.”
I agree with that statement and believe it to be true That doesn’t mean that white people do racist things ALL the time. But it does mean that white is the default race by which all things are judged and their is no place on this planet where that is not true.
If Mirkwood were to accept that premise it would require him to completely reevaluate his world view. He doesn’t want to do that because it would require him to do away with his paper hero’s, question his ideology and restructure his liberalism to accept Afrocentrism and black power.(which he would consider racist).
Its far easier to believe in the party, blame it on Republicans, and emotionally attach to perceived social saviors. If we just elected the right people, passed the right laws all this uncomfortableness would just go away.
America and the rest of the white world is just as racist today as when people could kidnap and lynch blacks in public decades ago. The difference today is people keep their racism to themselves, deny that racism exists or pretend that political solutions are possible within a white supremacy frame work.
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Even if Mirkwood were to accept that he was a racist it would take him years of unlearning all his years of whitecentric white lens biases. Maybe there is hope for him who knows. But until that happens he needs to stop calling himself an anti racist and an ally. Right now he is the Lord of “Denial”.
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Michael Coopers post really helped me understand about liberal versus conservative. It can’t get any plainer than how he explained it.
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Mirkwood referred to me as one of his opponents i am not an opponent this is not a game black peoples lives matter and the lives of black people in black bodies being killed and brutalized daily is not something to be taken lightly. His cavalier attitude on these post threads let me know he was not caring about black people and other people of color and i wondered what the hell he was doing on this blog site. I just couldn’t take him seriously. He reminds me of another baffoon banned poster George Ryder.
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@sharinalr: I don’t think he will admit that.
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@Mary Burrell
I thought he was George Ryder returned when he first showed up. I don’t think he will admit it either, but I just wanted to grill him none the less.
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Lord of Mirkwood
Read what was said very slowly. When you are done calm down and focus on finding that information I asked for earlier.
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@MB,
LOL
@Sharina, I did say something to the effect that all Americans grow up, and learn what is the racist ideology in the US. I did not say it was just white people or had something to do with someone’s ancestry. Maybe he was taking a comment from someone else about white people and then combine different things together and make up something new.
But even Abagond admits he is racist.
So, what LoM did then was rewrite the narrative to fit in with his world view. Perhaps he is not even aware that he did that. But rewriting the narrative is what many white liberals do.
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George Ryder’s IP addresses and Lord of Mirkwood’s come from different parts of the US. That is not to say that George Ryder could not have moved.
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@Abagond: LOL!
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@jefe: That was an insightful point about white liberal rewriting narratives. This has been such an interesting post thread i am learning so much about white liberals.
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@jefe
“Perhaps he is not even aware that he did that”—I am trying hard to believe that he is not even aware, but I honestly believe he is more aware than he puts on.
When faced with his own words he puts forth too much effort to dismiss and deflect from what he said. For example in the exchange with him and gro jo, he jumped on the opportunity to discuss Wilson although that was likely an example rather than a whole topic to be discussed. He knows he lied, but he does not want to admit it. That is fine, but I don’t think I can see him as helpless and unaware.
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@MB,
No one said that he was the resurrection of a banned poster. What was said was he reminded one of a banned poster. Evidence was furnished to corroborate that he is not the banned poster.
THEN, the narrative of what people are doing gets rewritten as if he felt as if he were accused of being a sock puppet, which never happened. Who knows, he might even go back to his own blog and say that everyone here was accusing him of being a sock puppet.
So, would he be lying, or just rewriting the narrative? Or is that the same as lying (even if one is completely unaware that one is doing that)? He is just suffering from RWW syndrome (Reading while white).
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@ Lord of Mirkwood
Oh please. Maybe his mother got really sick or he got a great job or scholarship. Who knows. I have seen non-sock-puppet commenters move across much greater distances.
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@jefe: That’s crazy i am shaking my head it sounds like reading comprehension issues or lying or rewriting the narrative like you said. it’s crazy and interesting.
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@jefe: Reading while white. LOL.
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@ Lord of Mirkwood
FYI, it is possible to be both anti-racist and racist at the same time. I consider myself an example.
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Reading while white makes lots of sense why some of them get so bent out of shape when the come to the blog or lurk.
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So that’s what set that Joshua person off he was reading while white.
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this reading while white is making me giggle. I love it.
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@ Mary, Linda and sharinalr
Your posts are on point! OMG I can’t believe how far this thread has grown.
LOM reminds me of an older version of someone I will not name because he’ll magically appear. I don’t have hope that he’ll ever be open-minded to his own racism.
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@ Lord of Mirkwood
Italics is my moderator voice.
You are PROBABLY not George Ryder, but, unfortunately, there is no way to be sure. Several banned commenters have wanted to or tried to come back in, and likely one or two have succeeded.
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@Jefe
” would he be lying, or just rewriting the narrative?”—I am going to just say I don’t know, but I do know he is apparently not reading what I am reading.
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^ RWW
LOL
😛
Expect to see a post on his blog that everyone here was ganging up on him accusing him of being a sock puppet. See how the narrative would change!
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@ All
George Ryder sent me email. He asks that I moderate his name and delete all his comments.
Henceforth, Ryder shall be the name that shall not be spoken.
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The entity whose name shall not be spoken advised L o M to examine himself and stop pointing fingers at everyone else.
Basically what everyone has been telling him. Maybe he will hear what a white guy says to him.
“Know thyself”
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@Jeff
Well I for one think it is good that he who shall not be named has had time to reflect. I wish him luck.
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@Jefe
Excuse my auto correct. Though it does seem a bit strange he magically commented to say they are not the same and now after only like 2 comments saying that we though LOM was him even though he has briefly been.mentioned since his ban.
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He who shall not be named. LOL! So he’s lurking. ROTFMAO!
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That is hilarious He who shall not be named.
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Linda brought up the two protestors in Seattle. These first quotes are from BLM Seattle.
“To quell some of the rumors; no these young women were not plants. They are not corporate sponsored antagonists. They do not work for the CIA. They do not work for Hillary.
I know this because I contacted the person who knows them and I asked. And then… I listened. She spoke at our monthly meeting which I feel was the most productive and inclusive meeting yet. Please, hear me when I call for peace. And I call for unity. And I ask for solidarity. We can win this. We really can.”
From Black Lives Matter:
“As stated in our mission, #BlackLivesMatter is an ideological and political intervention; we are not controlled by the same political machine we are attempting to hold accountable. In the year leading up to the elections, we are committed to holding all candidates for Office accountable to the needs and dreams of Black people. We embrace a diversity of tactics. We are a decentralized network aiming to build the leadership and power of black people. We do not endorse any political party and we are not supported by any political party. Our political aims we’ve stated clearly. Historically, all political parties have participated in the systematic disenfranchisement of Black people. Anti-black racism, especially that sanctioned by the state, has resulted in the loss of healthy and thriving Black life and well-being. Given that, we will continue to hold politicians and political parties accountable for their policies and platforms. We will also continue to demand the intentional dismantling of structural racism.”
This is from the 16-year-old girl who was the admin for the page that was once called Black Lives Matter Seattle but is now called Black In Seattle:
“Hello. My name is Nikki and this will be my first time posting on this page under it’s new name. I would like to address all points of confusion with my page as well as my thoughts on yesterday’s rally.
1.) I started this page under the name Black Lives Matter Seattle with out realizing I had to check with the official chapter members of Seattle and the national network. The name has since been changed to Black in Seattle
2.) The two women that were at the rally yesterday were actually members of BLM Seattle
3.) I have spoken to them and as far as I know, they are not conspirators with any other democratic candidates or the GOP
4.) I personally support Bernie Sanders. But I can not apologize for them or speak for them about what happened yesterday and they have not apologized
“Ok, now that that those points are cleared up, I would like to talk about the reasoning behind the interruption. I can see that there are thousands of you who have viewed my page and a lot of you have written in to show your displeasure about it. I was watching MSNBC this morning and women from BLM really shed some light on what happened. This is not the first time a candidate has been interrupted on stage by BLM and it won’t likely be the last. Those women, like many others, are on the front lines of a movement. They are trying to send a message to the candidates that their sympathy is not enough. There needs to be some real change. It may have looked rude to many, but the message must be sent through whatever means necessary and every opportunity must been taken (even if the delivery was poor). Please, let go of your anger towards the women and direct it towards police brutality. Do not let yourself be distracted from the deaths!! People are still dying!! Every28 hours there is another death. THAT is what truly should disgust you. Not everything in a movement can be perfect. But our allegiance to them must still be strong. I still support BLM and I think you all should too.”
Below are some quotes from the Raw Story interview of Marissa Johnson.
http://www.rawstory.com/2015/08/marissa-janae-johnson-doesnt-give-a-fck-if-protest-at-seattle-bernie-sanders-rally-drives-people-away/
“I feel good,” she said by phone. “I helped launch a national conversation around race and electoral politics and respectability that’s still going strong two days later. I could not be better.”
Going after Bernie Sanders is “super important,” Johnson said, because “Sanders is supposed to be as far left and progressive as you can possibly get and in Seattle’s political context? I know that really, really well, right? We have hordes and hordes of white liberals and white progressives and yet we still have all the same racial problems. So for us locally in our context, confronting Sanders was the equivalent of confronting the large, white, liberal Democrat leftist contingent that we have here in Seattle who not only has not supported BLM in measurable ways but is often very harmful and is upholding the white supremacist society that we live in.”
Well, what would you say to the people who say that you’re hurting your cause?” White asked.
“I don’t give a f*ck about the white gaze,” Johnson replied. “I don’t. I literally don’t.”
When asked about her admission that she once supported former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin (R), Johnson explained that her parents, an interracial couple, are Tea Party supporters and that she was a supporter of the former vice presidential candidate when she was a high schooler in 2008.
“Clearly that’s not where I am, because people leave high school and go to college and [change their views],” she explained, adding that she was a “devout evangelical Christian.”
“So, yes, I did run up there and confront Bernie Sanders because of my religious conviction, absolutely. Are they right-wing religious convictions? No.”
Glen Ford founder of Outside Agitators 206 had this to say.
“To succeed, the Black Lives Matter Movement must transform the politics of Black America. By definition, that means declaring war on the Democratic Party, and forcing Black politicians and activists to choose between the Party and the people’s struggle.
As usual, the Democrats will try to make Black people more angry at the terminally racist Republican Party than at the police and local administration of their (typically) Democrat-run city. Hillary Clinton is already making noises of empathy with Blacks suffering under the urban police state. However, the Black Lives Matter movement has no institutional stake in the victory of either party, but is, in fact, locked in mortal political struggle with other Black people in the Democratic Party. These Black Democrats will insist on a truce, a cessation of agitation against national or local Democrats, until after the election.”
Glen Fords statement affirms Abagonds first point.
http://blackagendareport.com/democrats_to_bury_black_lives_matter_under_election
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Glenn Fords Black Agenda Report piece deals with Abagonds points 1,4,6 and 7. If their is going to be a “Black Spring” then I think it needs to start with dealing with the reality Glenn Ford is talking about.
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Michael,
I read that story about the podcast she did but my problem is, she and the other girl are claiming to have started the BLM movement in Seattle
where is the outside BLM sources legitimizing this girl?
I still feel like this girl is pulling a Trump, trying to destroy things from within–
her message is almost lock step with the Tea Party except she is throwing in pro-black language and rhetoric to make herself look authentic.
____________________________________________________
Here is what she said in the interview in full:
http://www.thestranger.com/blogs/slog/2015/08/11/22680645/in-her-own-words-the-political-beliefs-of-the-protester-who-interrupted-bernie-sanders
Is she a Christian fundamentalist? A Sarah Palin supporter?
I do need to address that. That’s actually really important for me to address, because part of that is true. My parents are both Tea Partiers. I’m mixed. My mom’s white and my dad’s black.
And they’re both big Tea Partiers and that’s how I was raised. Clearly I’m not—that’s not where I am because people leave high school and they go to college and they, like, become an adult and they change their mind… I’m 24…
But I do want to say I am a very devout Evangelical Christian… And people who know me locally and nationally in my organizing work know that that is why I do what I do. And so yes, I did run up there and confront Bernie Sanders because of my religious convictions, absolutely. Are they right-wing religious? No.
But they’re religious in the fact that my religion says you lay down your life for other people and the most marginalized, and so that’s what I do. So I guess I am a Christian extremist.
So her true convictions were religious based, is BLM now about religion viewpoints?
I don’t believe her or trust her motives — she is using tea party tactics to agitate and inflame
As a supposed ex-tea party member, of course this girl would have a problem with white Liberals and progressives – they were her opponents from day 1 when she was a tea party political activist.
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Also, this group Outside Agitators 206 is not affiliated with the BLM group
and according to Daily Kos, they are no longer functioning:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/08/09/1410408/-Seattle-s-Outside-Agitators-206-why-they-want-to-drive-a-wedge-between-BLM-and-Democrats
“The instigators of a strident protest who drove Bernie Sanders from a stage yesterday were from a group named Outside Agitators 206. They created a Black Lives Matter Seattle facebook page just 2 days ago.
Outside Agitators 206 seems to be a group that regards electoral politics as a inconsequential. They focuses on BLM and driving a wedge between BLM Movement and the Democratic Party. Their facebook page links to a site named Black Agenda Report run by a man named Glen Ford that included this reveling passage:
Update: I revived an email from who signed up for the Outside Agitators 206 email list who wrote me this:
So apparently Mara and Marissa are what remains of “Outside Agitators 206”.
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@ Linda.
I don’t know if she is authentic or not though I’m willing to give her the benefit of the doubt. I do know she is part of Glen Fords Outside Agitators 206 group which is black centric.
Evangelical Christians make up a large part of mainstream Christianity in America so I wouldn’t describe them as “radical”. That said their beliefs mirror some of the Tea party positions like pro life and pro traditional marriage. Those positions aren’t necessarily right wing. Being anti immigrant which is a definite tea party position would be right wing. So when she says “Are they right-wing religious? No” I believe she is referring to what she believes are Christian values not necessarily the darker things the Tea party pushes.
I know black evangelicals that vote Republican because their religious convictions out way their political convictions. Part has to do with evangelical “end time” theology. If you believe that the end is near then political solutions for race and class aren’t important because those things won’t happen until the second coming of Christ.
As far as the anarchist connection I got some of the material from here.
https://www.facebook.com/AnarchistsPN?fref=ts
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Michael,
to be fair, I have seen older stories about the group with her name mentioned, so i will concede that she is “an activist”:
http://socialistworker.org/2015/01/28/black-lives-matter-in-seattle
NEARLY 600 people packed the Quincy Jones Auditorium at Garfield High School in Seattle on January 22 for a panel discussion titled “From Black Power to #BlackLivesMatter: A Forum with 1968 Olympic Medalist John Carlos.”
ARETHA BASU kicked off the meeting with a message directed at allies from non-Black communities of color: “As an ally, it is imperative that we center Blackness–that is what this movement is about. It is not about everyone’s oppression. I am an Indian woman, and the oppression against my community is different than what my Black sisters and brothers are experiencing. As allies, we need to claim our privilege and understand our roles.”
Both Basu and Marissa Johnson spoke of their newness to organizing, both articulating a feeling of being called into organizing and the importance of continued struggle following the incredible injustice that they had witnessed.
Johnson is a leader and organizer with Outside Agitators 206, a Seattle-based coalition organizing against police terror and the prison system.
but she herself, stated that her current goal is to be an “agitator” (which is a tea party tactic)
is she naturally evolving as she gets deeper into pro-black activism? or did she have an agenda from day 1?
I don’t know but I do know, her religious convictions should not be what is driving her to agitate in the name of black lives matter.
in the past, many pro-black groups have been brought down and destroyed by people who infiltrated the group.
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Michael,
Just to be clear, my problem with this girl is that from 1 side of her mouth she is saying “f’ck white people, white progressive, and white Liberals”
whereas, her initial message was “diversity, America needs to be inclusive and everyone needs to be involved”, and her roots are based in “tea party, anti-socialist and down with the government and taxes”
She stated on her own webside that the GOP should have been there ready to “groom her”
I like her earlier work, I’ll give her kudos for that:
http://seattleglobalist.com/2015/02/25/uw-walkout-black-lives-matter/34256
Hundreds of students, faculty, administration and community members walked out of their classrooms, from libraries and from residence halls to meet at in front of Mary Gates Hall on the University of Washington’s Seattle campus.
The walkout was in support of the Black Lives Matter movement, and to address diversity issues on the University of Washington campuses and within the greater community.
The walkout was organized by Outside Agitators 206 and a variety of campus organizations at all three University of Washington campuses in Seattle, Bothell and Tacoma.
The walkout received support from different areas of the university, from students to administration.
but I don’t want to see the progress that activist have made with BLM,
go to waste because this chick or any group, is trying to get media attention for themselves, alienating possible allies who can help effect change in the process
and her support of Sarah Palin doesn’t look good. I truly hope she is authentic and not playing some kind of game.
As we can see from Ferguson, change is happening slowly but even that little crumb took a combined effort.
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Lord of Mirkwood,
your disapproval of Bernie being heckled and hijacked, is duly Noted and Dismissed!
You don’t care about black lives, so therefore your opinion doesn’t “matter”
Anyone who was truly an “ally” of the BLM movement will recognize that these 2 girls do not represent “all black people” and will not turn their backs on BLM
unlike flakes and posers, like you, who call yourselves “white allies” and are willing to jump ship over this incident
Social activism was not intended to be pretty and clean
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Bernie Sanders press secretary Symone Sanders is impressive a post should be done about her. She is sharp as a tack. #Black Women Rock
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Thanks Linda for the conversation. Theirs a lot of conflicting information out their and I’m trying to sort it out. Most of the push back has been coming from white centric sources and the Daily Kos is heavily invested in the Democratic party so that makes me want to question their sincerity. Glenn Ford stated on his BAR site that he has no affiliation nor has he spoken to the protestors which contradicts the Kos story.
So I guess we will see how this all plays out.
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@Jefe
I think you might be right about him rewriting the narrative without even realizing it.
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@Lord of Mirkwood
If I wanted to read fiction I would read a book. Your blog just does not do it for me or anyone living in reality.
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@ Lord of Mirkwood
You should do a post on Marissa Janae Johnson. I am doing one. It will probably go up tomorrow.
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@ Lord of Mirkwood
I read your account of this thread on your blog:
https://lordofmirkwood.wordpress.com/2015/08/12/the-storm-breaks-at-abagonds/
Mary has it right: you are the Lord of Denial. The post on your blog does not at all seriously deal with what became the main question: whether you are racist. Several people have quoted you and said why they think you are racist. You do not seriously deal with that, either here and in your post.
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Mirkwood is being dragged and read for filth backwards and forwards. LOL!
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@ Lord of Mirkwood
You should do a post, “I am racist” or “Am I racist?” I did one:
You can do what I did and take the Implicit Association Test for racism:
http://www.understandingprejudice.org/iat/
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@ Lord of Mirkwood
Under the circumstances – on a thread about a lion getting more attention than Sam Dubose, in which you found time to write eight comments about lions – I would say that is pretty damning. Especially when, as vanishingpoint pointed out, you also said this (on your blog):
https://lordofmirkwood.wordpress.com/2015/07/31/cecil-the-lion/
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ROFL. Wow. Just wow.
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@ Lord of Mirkwood
You did “address” some of the quotes but did not deal with them seriously, like I said. You were mostly dismissive, like you were with mine.
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Where Have I seen this before on this blog ,a white person comments with either blatant or semiblatant racist remarks or viewpoints
numerous regular commentors and even a few new ones tell him or her they are wrong and racist and try to explain it to them in detail but they refuse to listen and acknowledge that they are wrong and racist.
Thing I like is how you can still learn a little about something and when its good
enjoy a good argument as in – yep ya told that so and so.
in this case I never thought about this
“It started out as a small argument, me against the user ThozokileX, over whether German-Americans had been interned like the Japanese during World War II”
Thats the thing that gets me and it pops up again and again in studying racism at least for me – the extreme ,extreme bias and selectivity of racist people esp white racist people,okay american white racist people.
basically if a white person or persons is committing even murder against other white people said white will not experience the same level of hate and aggression that is regular procedure for nonwhite people.
Indeed I think many of these sociological processes can be reduced to axiom or formula but I’m not that smart .
oh and i don’t have apparently a lot of time on my hands,maybe on my butt or back but I digress;-/
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“Do you think lion lives matter less than black human ones?” wtf
So you think animal life holds the same value as human life?
So you don’t think it’s racist to compare “black humans” with lions? gtfoh mirkwood
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^^ Someone…. Anyone. Please explain the above logic to me.
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@Lord of Mirkwood
“If so, then you will lose whatever respect I still have for you.”–ROFL. I care why? I don’t know you dude.
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Oh and to answer you question. No, I do not think an animals life is equal to a humans.
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So then Lord of Mirkwood, if given the choice of having a baby die or having ten dogs die, you would be perplexed as to which one to chose???
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@Lord of Mirkwood
“Way to be a racist.”–If you say so, but I am not losing any sleep.
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“I would like to share with you all what a Hitlerian monster writes.”—I guess that is fair. We just finished sharing what a racist writes.
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Besides xPrae, were there many other commenters who took the issue on this blog to their own blogs and made it very personal about the other commenters here?
Well, it might attract more people to THIS blog, although I am not sure if it will be the kind that will bring good discussion.
But what it does for me is make me wonder how to address THIS kind of white liberal racism that is constantly rewriting the narrative of US history and society and still supports the white supremacist ideology, while pointing fingers at “the enemy”, whether they be Republicans, China, etc.
Although I technically spent most of my childhood in the DC/MD/VA area, I spent large chunks of it also (with family members living there too) in Massachusetts, New York, Alabama and Hong Kong / Greater China and a little bit in California. I experienced all of those places in a very personal way (less so for California). I heard all the rhetoric about what the people in Massachusetts say about Alabama and what they say in reverse.
All I can say is that there are different cultures in the USA. But all of them are wedded to white supremacy in one way or another.
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@jefe
“But all of them are wedded to white supremacy in one way or another.”—Very well said.
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@kiwi
“I presume you are vegan?”–haha
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@ Lord of Mirkwood
Animals Lives Matter too! Are you happy, LOM? Damn!
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@ Lord of Mirkwood
Yes.
FYI, Hitler was a vegetarian. According to Alexander Cockburn:
http://www.counterpunch.org/2005/08/18/vegetarians-nazis-for-animal-rights-blitzkrieg-of-the-ungulates/
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Abagond, when you write about Marissa
I hope you do a robust post on current coconuts and black Judas’s like, David Clarke, a Sheriff from Wisconsin, who is also a Christian tea party member just like Marissa Johnson and her parents.
Marissa stated her “Christian beliefs” compelled her to be an agitator and go after Bernie Sanders
and as I said before, the tea party holds similar beliefs about being “revolutionary” based on their Christian convictions
David Clarke’s message to his supporters:
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/tea-party-sheriff-calls-pitchforks-and-torches-response-marriage-equality-ruling
So, did Marissa truly come up with the concept of being an “in your face agitator” as a part of her growing pro-black activisim
or is she taking a page (and instructions) from her former, fellow tea party revolutionaries, who still probably come to her parents house for tea and cookies?
Please mention in post how black Judas’s “embedded” in the past pro-black movements have brought them down.
Malcolm X and Nation of Islam
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Mirkwood.
You might think that equating animal life on par with humans makes you egalitarian and enlightened. But what it really makes you is totalitarian and supremacist because you are adding human value to natural animal hierarchy.
That’s what the Nazi’s did and like you they valued lions over people.
That’s why you are a racist.
In my world view humans are valued equally amongst other humans. Animals are a personal hierarchical preference.
So in your world view the white man is at the top of the hierarchy followed by the lion, the black man, your dog and lastly your gold fish.
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According to “Big Game” Teddy Roosevelt, lions and other African, Asian and South American mammals’ lives didn’t matter:
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Assata Shakur (Black Panther and Tupac’s mother) talked about infiltrators and informers
http://www.assatashakur.org/cointelpro.htm#inf
INFILTRATION BY AGENTS OR INFORMERS
Agents are law enforcement officers disguised as activists.
Informers are non agents who provide information to a law enforcement or intelligence agency. They may be recruited from within a group or sent in by an agency, or they may be disaffected former members or supporters.
Infiltrators are agents or informers who work in a group or community under the direction of a law enforcement or intelligence agency. During the 60s the FBI had to rely on informers (who are less well trained and harder to control) because it had very few black, Hispanic or female agents, and its strict dress and grooming code left white male agents unable to look like activists. As a modern equal opportunity employer, today’s FBI has fewer such limitations.
What They Do: Some informers and infiltrators quietly provide information while keeping a low profile and doing whatever is expected of group members. Others attempt to discredit a target and disrupt its work. They may spread false rumors and make unfounded accusations to provoke or exacerbate tensions and splits. They may urge divisive proposals, sabotage important activities and resources, or operate as “provocateurs” who lead zealous activists into unnecessary danger. In a demonstration or other confrontation with police, such an agent may break discipline and call for actions which would undermine unity and detract from tactical focus.
Infiltration As a Source of Distrust and Paranoia: While individual agents and informers aid the government in a variety of specific ways, the general use of infiltrators serves a very special and powerful strategic function. The fear that a group may be infiltrated often intimidates people from getting more involved. It can give rise to a paranoia which makes it difficult to build the mutual trust which political groups depend on. This use of infiltrators, enhanced by covertly initiated rumors that exaggerate the extent to which a particular movement or group has been penetrated, is recommended by the manuals used to teach counter-insurgency in the U.S. and Western Europe.
Covert Manipulation to Make A Legitimate Activist Appear to be an Agent: An actual agent will often point the finger at a genuine, non collaborating and highly valued group member, claiming that he or she is the infiltrator. The same effect, known as a “snitch jacket,” has been achieved by planting forged documents which appear to be communications between an activist and the FBI, or by releasing for no other apparent reason one of a group of activists who were arrested together. Another method used under COINTELPRO was to arrange for some activists, arrested under one pretext or another, to hear over the police radio a phony broadcast which appeared to set up a secret meeting between the police and someone from their group.
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I can picture Mirkwood telling a lion in the plains that antelope life matters. LMAO!!
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Michael, enjoyed our exchange as well.
It’s nice that you can give these girls the benefit of the doubt… their tactics did indeed make an impact, both good and bad.
I’m just questioning the source… because like Occupy Wallstreet, BLM has no real leaders, and almost anyone can do anything in their name.
Her tea party association makes me nervous.
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Teddy Roosevelt – a well-known White supremacist – loved hunting animals for sport, especially on the African continent. What if an African small gamer came to America to to hunt dogs for sport? The African small gamer wouldn’t last a second. The best friend of the dog would shoot him down with NO hesitation.
Teddy and his best friends:
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From the way he is talking it is more like white man is at the top of the hierarchy followed by the lion, your dog, your gold fish, and then the black man.
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Sharinalr said,
“From the way he is talking it is more like white man is at the top of the hierarchy followed by the lion, your dog, your gold fish, and then the black man.”
Your right. I’m giving him too much credit.
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@Linda
Thank you for posting that. I actually and looking into reading Assata Shakur’s autobiography.
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After a while, I just feel there is no hope for those not willing to have an open mind. I’ve enjoyed the exchanges back and forth but as many of you have tried, it really feels futile at this point.
My friend posted her favorite quote from an NPR news story recently that I think is applicable here… “That ship has sailed, hit the rocks, sunk and we are now on a new ship.” Sometimes you just have to let people move on!
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@bygodsloveandgrace
That is a great quote for this situation.
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Sharina @ your welcome.
bygodsloveandgrace @ yes, indeed.
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Lordy, nice pictures, you forgot to include a baby dolphin and baby lamb. What do all these animals have in common? They are all on the menu for humans, even white ones, disgusting, ain’t it? Let me guess, you’re a vegetarian like Hitler. Oh dear, the embarrassing company you keep.
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https://m.facebook.com/BLMSeattle/photos/a.716528258469009.1073741827.716412361813932/716529091802259/?type=1&source=44
Mirkwod isn’t unique. The white liberal racists are spewing their hatred on the BLM Seattle page.
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Lord of Mirkwood, I don’t think that anyone said that animal lives do not matter. However, what people do recognize is that there is a necessary gradient of value hierarchy beginning at amoebas and ending with human life at the top.
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@LOM
Egalitarianism? Not so much. EGO-litarianism? Seems more accurate. I get the sense that you choose to champion for the underdog simply because it makes you feel righteous and feeds your need to be superior to those with whom you interact. Once I realized that you are not here to learn, but instead to teach, it all made sense. The way you intertwine seemingly irrelevant history lessons into every thread, the way you championed the cause of speciesism by taking it upon yourself to make sure Cecil’s loss was not devalued in comparison to Samuel Dubose and even the way you deflect every attempt to point out your lack of introspection by lecturing about others. In many ways you’ve really been unabashedly defending the superiority of yourself. I’ll give you credit, you save most of the real grandstanding about how awesome you are for your own blog.
My observation? Your contribution could be exactly what you said, unabashedly calling out racism and carrying on the struggle for absolute egalitarianism (regardless of your motives). So, go do that.
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@ Lord of Mirkwood
Last night a Jeb Bush rally was disrupted by Black Lives Matter activists.
http://crooksandliars.com/2015/08/black-lives-matter-protesters-disrupt-jeb
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@ Lord of Mirkwood
They also tried to disrupt Hillary Clinton two nights ago, but Secret Service stopped them. She is guarded like Fort Knox.
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@Lord of Mirkwood
You’re it my friend. You’re what it’s all about. Hardline overt racists embrace their ignorance, they OWN it. No amount of discussion, debate or legislation will ever change their mind. Significant life experience might, but that’s not within our control. You, on the other hand… well, I feel like there’s a chance that if the correctly crafted trigger is posted, you just might stop spewing intellectually interesting tidbits long enough to examine yourself objectively. Tongue-in-cheek sarcasm like the OP didn’t work, blunt name calling didn’t work, examples of how direct quotes were viewed through a “Black Lens” didn’t work… you’re a tough nut to crack. But, you’re here. That makes me feel like either your truly, 100%, a troll with a significantly complex endgame or you’re genuinely, 100%, misguided. The fact so many people keep trying, indicates to me that most believe it’s the latter. Misguided. But, you certainly are passionate. So I find trying to understand how that passion could be so misguided very intellectually interesting.
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“Would anyone like to see me bust more of Gro Jo’s idiocy? Just check the comments on my post “The Storm Breaks at Abagond’s.”” Where’s the link Lordy? It’s obvious you suffer from reading comprehension. Where are the pictures of the baby lambs, dolphins, seals, etc.
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@ LOM
Mirkwood, you know exactly what you’re doing. I’m NOT surprised at all. Very typical of individuals with your mentality.
Would you compare animal suffrage to Jewish suffrage in Nazi German? Probably not.
Nobody in the dominant society can image or preconceive a phrase that reads: Extermination of animals, NEVER AGAIN! or Hot dogs in an oven…WE DON’T FORGET!
Your child-like comparison of Animal Lives Matter to Black Lives Matter clearly reveals your anti-Black mindset.
Question – Were you on Cliven Bundy’s Ranch protecting Mr. Bundy’s cattle from the federal law enforcement? Yes or No
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Here are horrific pictures of two-legged dogs siccing four-legged dogs on non-violent, civil rights protesters in Birmingham, Alabama:
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Unfortunately, the pictures don’t show the inhumane act of Birmingham police officers siccing German shepherd police dogs on Black people. But everyone knows the horrific scenes. Black Lives never Mattered in America.
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” Black Lives never Mattered in America.”—Not even to the white liberals who claim to be doing it for us.
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@ Lord of Mirkwood
Where did you see this 22-minute video?
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What have we learned from Lordy’s latest comments:
1) He wants to beat up women. ” I wanted to reach through the screen and give both of them a good punch in the face.”
2) He fantasizes about lynching blacks on his blog. “I still wish you could be plane-dropped into a Fenian Brotherhood rally. I might upgrade my wish to include the IRA if this keeps going.”
A very sick individual. You can take the boy out of the lynch mob, but you can’t take the lynch mob out of the boy.
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@Gro Jo
And true to his nature instead of acknowledging and reflecting on his violent ways in his comments he tries to find something you said to paint you as worse. smh
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Quote from Mikwood letter to Marissa Johnson.
“You talked about white supremacist liberalism as though it was possible for such a thing to exist.” lol
Thanks for the video link. What I got from that video was that the liberals in Seattle have no empathy for black issues or for BLM. I saw plenty of Mirkwoods in the crowd and hostility.
From what I can tell BLM has no central leadership and is horizontal anarchism the same way Occupy was set up. That means it is made up of cells in various communities that hold to BLM’s focus, structural racism, the murder of blacks by police ect. And those individual cells set their agendas.
What puzzles me is that the AZ event was an “officially sanctioned” disruption but this one supposedly wasn’t. If their is no official leadership then who does the sanctioning?
After watching the video my sense is that Marissa Johnson is not a troll and appears sincere. If she is working for some other group as a saboteur that will eventually come to light.
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Lordy, I’m willing to bet that you’ll be goose stepping and singing the Horst wessel song or the Irish variation thereof before the the end of the decade. Mussolini started out as a ‘socialist’ like you. You never did get around to answering my question whether your urge to lynch blacks is long standing or of recent vintage.
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@ LOM
You should know that in 1935 (four years before WWII) African Americans of all classes, regions, genders, and religious beliefs expressed their opposition to and outrage over the Italian invasion of Ethiopia in various forms and various means. African Americans, like Colonel John C. Robinson and other Black men, took up arms to defend Africa’s only independent nation (Liberia excluded) against the forces of imperialism.
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@ LOM
The British came to the aid of His Majesty Haile Selassie only after Selassie told the British that Mussolini would invade another empire that’s not Black. The British got Selassie’s message real quick. Whites know other Whites much better than Blacks know Whites.
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Abagond, have you heard of a fellow named James David Manning? He is the pastor of a church in Harlem and seems to specialize in denigrating blacks. Lordy has gotten too much attention on this forum, Manning’s anti Black diatribes seem a lot more damaging than Lordy’s because his Youtube posts claiming such absurdities such as blacks never built anything in stone has been seen by almost 2 million viewers.
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17m8OnHC7dQ)
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@gro jo
Did this guy even learn history? I mean I looked at the video and he literally ignores all evidence to the contrary of what he is saying. White people are on there talking about how he is a smart black man speaking the truth.
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I found a YouTube video where whites are telling blacks to stop making a fuss because America was free for everyone. It just that that was in the 60’s. Just found out that most blacks in Mexico do not want to identify with Africa while the ones in Brazil are proud of Africa and also practice African religions. Then I found the black Hebrews and just got disgusted.
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sharinalr,
if Manning wanted to know the truth, all he’d have to do is take a walk to the Schomburg library in Harlem, where he has his church. It’s only natural that he’d find a receptive hearing among whites, he’s only saying what they want to hear. Even the liberal ones feel entitled to tell blacks what’s in their best interests.
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@gro jo
Sometimes I wonder why whites have to hold onto so many lies just to survive.
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@Lord of Mirkwood:
Dear, I am sitting here partaking of a particularly delicious aged Angus steak! Cooked in butter(or should I say seared?), garlic, with sauteed mushrooms on the side!
I love animals especially on my plate! Get real.
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sharinalr,
As the Manning video shows, it’s not only whites who hold on to these ideas. You have this man who apparently, holds advanced degrees in theology, he’s called Dr. Manning, believing lies easily refuted. Have you seen his routine on Nelson Mandela? Total insanity.
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@gro jo
“Have you seen his routine on Nelson Mandela?”—I decided not to look at anything else he said because I did not want to give this guy any reviews. But it does make me wonder why no one has been able to successful diagnosis such issues as a mental issue. I think black people like him as well as white people have a mental issue. Seriously. I would be willing to invest in the study of the racial mind sets that make people believe things against all evidence to the contrary.
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Examples of the White Liberal tropes in the post as ably demonstrated by Lord of Mirkwood:
#1. Take the Black vote for granted.
#2. Be colour-blind: Make it about class, not race.
#4. Play up how racist the other side is.
#5. Have a Sister Souljah Moment.
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^ LoM took #3 (All Lives Matter) one step further by including non-human animals.
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@ Jefe
LOL. How could I forget!
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^^^ #2. Be colour-blind: Make it about class, not race.
FDR and the New Deal did little to end Jim Crow, even if it made some Blacks less desperately poor. Jim Crow was mainly kept in place by Democrats, not Republicans.
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@ Lord of Mirkwood
Your fellow Irish American not getting it:
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I tried the test. For me, all of the Democratic candidates were above the Republican ones with Bernie Sanders on top. no big surprise.
But as you said, it is a white test. It assumes that there is no such thing as racism (oh, that is like, so early 20th century) and does not consider how much the national narrative has been rewritten into the white perspective.
They should have included a sections on
– Black Lives matter
– broken Indian treaties
– Foreign policy (not just military spending)
– something out of the blue (eg, would they consider an Asian male running mate)
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@ Jefe @ Lord of Mirkwood
I took the test too. Bernie Sanders was at the top with 94%, Jeb Bush was at the bottom with like 27% and Trump somewhere in the middle. But, like Jefe, I found the test very Whitecentric.
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@Lord of Mirkwood
“Who benefits from racism?”
You do.
Racism shores up more job opportunities (especially good paying jobs), bank loans, investment/venture capital, political offices, etc. for whites (including Irish Americans)
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@taotesan
Excellent excerpts from Steve Biko
I esp like
“Their presence amongst us is irksome and of nuisance value.”
this is a regular theme at this blog – a excess verbiage white blogger/commentor with comments after comments insisting that all the other black/nonwhite commentors are wrong and he/she is correct,also may have own blog ,which is more of the same.
An immediate clue – very many comments ,very long comments ,verbally abusive,refusal to admit or acknowledge error.
however thats just a part of it ,you also have the many black/nonwhite commentors who are try to reason and argue with these types as well as the blog owner who will respond ,even with a full post focusing on such commentors..
meanwhile there are whites who genuinely contribute and do not antagonize such as “Michael Jon Barker” and are possibly ignored (just as even the rational/legitimate points of some of these types are ignored) because the excess verbiage and contrariness if not out right opposition monopolizes our attention.
I also regularly try to imagine the opposite and how that would occur ,if it ever occurs
specifically can anyone see me or another black person or other nonwhite going to stormfront or some other known conservative or racist site and doing even a fraction of what these type of white commentors do here?
without getting immediately banned,death threats with a high possibly of being carried out,much less being verbally abused?
(indeed much of the content itself consist of verbal abuse!)
anyway enough of the negative I strive to embody the balance and truth I know and seek
from commentor
1. The demilitarization of the police force, and the introduction of community policing in its place.
2. The loosening of drug laws and the pardoning of non-violent drug offenders. Substance abuse should be seen as a personal health issue, not a crime.
3. Following on that, former prisoners should have their civil rights restored. Too many people, disproportionately African-American, are robbed of the right to vote simply because they made a mistake. In general, criminal justice should be less about inflicting pain and more about rehabilitation.
4. Following on THAT, the strike-down of all voter ID laws that target poor and minority communities. As Tim Wise said, they are serving only to reinstate apartheid.
5. A ban on redlining in real estate.
from commentor – jefe
“Political views which superficially address racial inequities will do little without dismantling the original white supremacist ideology in the first place
A good example that I know about is Restrictive Covenants. When that was ruled illegal, it was replaced with blockbusting. The Fair Housing Act (FHA) and the laws prohibiting blockbusting were enacted, but then we had a proliferation of racial steering and predatory lending, segregation academies and continued white flight. With each new law making something illegal, another behavior and practice replaces it.
On top of that is the flat denial and feeling of being offended after being called out on what is undeniably blatant racist behavior. ”
Kinda reminds me of Dr.welsings analysis.
Basically unless we deal with the underlying causes of this conflict – each new law making something illegal, another behavior and practice replaces it with the same resulting situation.
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Old Uncle Bernie is starting to grow on me i am probably going to vote for him.
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“The entity whose name has been moderated since August 12, 2015, has been banned on my blog for trolling.”—That is quite an interesting change of events. I thought you two would be besties.
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@lord of dullwood
“Did you know that EPGAH views Irish Catholics right up there with blacks, Muslims, and Mexicans as “s-vages?”
“Yes, he, like all racists, views me right down there with you.”
.
No… and I don’t care what either of you dim-bulbs think!
That said, I notice that you can’t seem to make up your confused mind… whether Blacks are “right up there”, or “right down there…”
Personally, I wouldn’t want to be anywhere (up, down, or inbetween) near wherever your pretentious racist dumb azz is!
I also notice that however different you claim you are from epgah, you two are cut from the same cloth. The difference is that your buddy (epgah) is a more honest and deliberate in his rantings than you are. If I had to choose between him or you, I’d probably find his company and presence somewhat less offensive than yours.
There’s no one more dangerous, or irksome imo than a racist without a clue!
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Mirkwood said
“Yes, he, like all racists, views me right down there with you.”
That tells me you view non whites as being beneath you. You preach egalitarianism but you still view the world through a racist lens.
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So you banned George because he was making fun of your socialism and Irish identity ? lmao
Ya it’s your blog but I didn’t think that exchange worth a banning. It’s important not to create for yourself an echo chamber by banning people who disagree with you.
I too am a skeptic of Socialism paticularly the “tax the rich” variety. It’s important that entrepreneurship and risk don’t get punished to heavily within an economy. Hard work needs to be awarded not penalized.
That said I’m not get against real socialism of some aspects of the economy like national resources. I don’t think a few people and a cartel should profit exclusively from oil for example.
An ideal economy for me would be part lassier fair and part socialism with no protections or favors given to corperations.
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Irish Catholics aren’t oppressed in America.
You want to see yourself as oppressed so you can “share in the oppression” of non whites. You believe you have something in common with non whites and because of this self imagined identity, that makes you “not a racist”.
The truth is you have never had anybody interfere with your life, liberty or property because you are Irish Catholic.
When you make it all about your self imagined oppression that deflects away from the real racism that’s alive and well throughout the world.
The reality is POC who post on this blog can tell you of when whites or the State interfered with their life, liberty or property because of their race. This interference they speak about won’t get solved if white people like yourself choose to live in denial and offer paternalistic solutions. And this interference happens every day on a multitude of levels that goes way beyond a simplistic class argument.
Your political solutions do nothing to addressee structural or institutional racism. If the U.S. were to got to a Socialist economy that wont change the judicial system, the educational system, or any of the social obstacles in place that interferes with Black achievement. Socialism will not change the hearts of white people to be non racist.
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Right: the schools, courts and police are socialized yet they are racist. The same goes for NPR and PBS.
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@ Lord of Mirkwood
You have clearly not lived in a big city as part of an oppressed group. If you had, you would know that government services are not equal in all parts of the city. Having the government run things does not magically make racism go away. Sometimes it helps, sometimes it is part of the problem, as with police brutality.
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“I banned him because he went off-topic three times, with multiple warnings from me.”
You sound like a school teacher. They use to make kids stand in the corner and now they have security drag them off of chairs.
Police use that excuse too. If he had just followed orders I wouldn’t have had to shoot him six times.
You are what I would call a statist. You believe in your own self imagined authority. That is the root of supremacy.
Your way of thinking is no different then the assault at Spring Valley High. You believe authority justifies coercion/violence even when disobedience is in the form of non aggression.
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@ Lord of Mirkwood
The Irish American experience of city government is different than that of Black Americans. The Irish had the vote by the 1850s. They were able to use their large numbers in big cities to use government as a great leveller, using it to get contracts and steady employment. By the time Blacks reached the same position in big cities, sometimes living in the very same neighbourhoods, White flight had taken much of the tax base with it.
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LOM
Word of advice. Go back and read “he who shall not be named” old posts and see what you guys have in common and what you need to fix in exchanges with people on this blog. That is if Abagond did not delete them. Perhaps then you will see why I initially thought you were him.
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Abagond said:
“you would know that government services are not equal in all parts of the city.”
A lot of that is based off of the locale tax base within a large city. Working class neighborhoods don’t get city street cleaners and their schools are second rate.
Federal dollars get funneled into middle class and upper class neighborhoods because of political connections and “rewards”. Inner city schools never get rewarded.
The police have a longer leash in working class neighborhoods as the people who live their don’t have the legal representation to take them to court over abuse. Immigrants almost never call the police I think in part because they come from countries where the police are corrupt. Americans don’t view the police as corrupt but rather the police are mostly good with a few bad apples.
The more community oriented a neighborhood is the more effective their locale government functions.
The larger the city the more distance their is from the poor, working class and immigrants and city services. Large cites take care of the people who have the most money and developers play a large roll in how different communities improve themselves.
I heard that in some non white neighborhoods who improved themselves, the city declared imminent domain, confiscated property, and then sold to developers for pennies on the dollar.
Cronyism within the city directs resources to areas where they get the best political payback.
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@ Sharina
I deleted his comments on August 12th.
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“Socialism will not change the hearts of white people to be non racist.”
.
@michaeljonbarker
!!! Thank you.
Political systems and practices in and of themselves do not and cannot change hearts.
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I did a post on the Democratic Party.
I’m rushing over there to read it as my floors dry!
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I posted a comment!
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@ Lord of Mirkwood
It is hardly that simple. Laws are very unevenly and selectively applied.
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@ Lord of Mirkwood
You live in a fantasy world if you think that is how the law works.
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“Thomas Jefferson woukd have challenged Bernie Sanders a to a dual and shot him dead” lmao
You gotta admit that’s pretty funny.
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LOM
“How dare you!!!!!!!!!!!!!”—-Because your argument is ridiculous. To even remotely say it was a mistake is just unbelievable.
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@ Lord of Mirkwood
A slip-up? You are lurching into self-parody.
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Re: LoM’s
does that mean that he will push us into a deeper nadir of race relations? Does not bode well for POC.
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@ Lord of Mirkwood
Recommended for you:
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@ Lord of Mirkwood
If President Sanders sends you to a prison camp simply because you are Irish American, will that be a slip-up too?
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@Lord of Mirkwood
If you mean that dumb a*** comment about how if we look at the full picture? Yes and still does not change how ridiculous your argument is.
“How the f-ck do you get “he would support it” from “he thinks it was a mistake?””—People support plenty of things and write it off as a mistake when it goes bad. Let’s play a game of logic here. g to write off such a major atrocity as a “Mistake” is still you supporting him because you are willing to excuse it, yet still praise him as good. To you overall he is good, but he made a major impact on people’s life for the worse that is basically a shrug off to you.
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@ Lord of Mirkwood
Note that the Japanese American Internment was carried out by a Democratic president. None of the succeeding Democratic presidents saw fit to apologize for that “slip-up” or try to make it right by paying reparations. That was done by Republicans: President Ford apologized and reparations were paid under President Reagan.
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@ Lord of Mirkwood
I agree with Sharina and Kiwi. If you are so against it, why in the world are you making excuses for it? You sound like a White person talking about slavery. Also, your seemingly callous indifference about the fate of Japanese Americans, judged against the body of your comments here, probably is racist. I doubt you “hate” Japanese Americans, but I remember you getting way more worked up over a lion in Zimbabwe than you are here over the fate of your own countrymen.
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@ Lord of Mirkwood
So if President Sanders sends you to a prison camp because you are Irish American, you will be cool with that so long as he plants trees?
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@Lord of Mirkwood
If the ends justifies the means then we can all say the British were fair in their treatment to the Irish.
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2. Be colour-blind: Make it about class, not race.
There are two kinds of Black people: Blacks who are poor and those who are not. Those who are poor you can help as poor people, along with tons of poor Whites. Blacks who are not poor do not suffer from racism, so again, no need to make it about race.
That is classical Marxists stuff.. .
Extreme right-wingers believe that whites of all classes should work together to achieve a great society free of undesirable races.
On the other side, extreme left-wingers believe that proletarians of all races should work together to achieve a great society free of undesirable classes.
They should achieve that society by expressing the general will and defend the common interests of the world’s proletariat as a whole, independent of nationality or race.
To them, the whole racism-issue is, in the end, only a distraction to divert blacks, latinos and whites from the common main objective, which I described above.
I do not see much wrong in this way of reasoning from a left-wing perspective.
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@ Lord of Mirkwood
If you are not cool with the internment, why in the world do you keep making excuse after excuse for it? I do not see you making excuses for Hitler, the British Empire, the South or that man who killed Cecil the Lion.
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@ Jeff
Sure, if you are colour-blind, there seems to be nothing wrong with it. By not seeing race, you do not see racism, so what is the big deal? But to those directly affected by racism it is hardly a “distraction”. To be able to see it that way without personal harm is itself a luxury that White liberals have.
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@ Jeff
As I see it White supremecy undelies all reality throughout the planet. It doesn’t matter if a country is right wing or left wing, socialist or capitalist, white supremecy is the standard by which all things are judged.
In order to end that I think their needs to be a revolution within the judicial system. In today’s system, white people or the State are always the victums and it is this victum hood that empowers white supremecy to maintain control within society.
In South Africa aparthied has ended and democracy introduced, yet white supremecy reins supreme in their society today just as a strongly as it does here in the U.S.
Their judicial system has doubled the amount of incarceration as well time served. It is the judicial system that maintains the legality of contracts that permits the resources of a country to be exported to Western countries or China with minimal compensation to the native citizens
who live in the communities where these resources are taken.
A country is considered “developed” if it uses a Eurocentric judicial system. It is the legal recognition of contracts across national boundaries that allows white supremecy to maintain its hold on the world’s resources.
Democracy is like the carrot on the end of the stick; an over rated distraction used to help maintain the status quo by creating the illusion that citizens votes can change their standing in society.
It’s the white centric judicial system that needs to be demolished. Justice needs to be blind and the equality of justice needs to once again bring peace back into communities rather then terrorize communities based on skin color. Victum’s néed restitution for themselves. Instead the victum is the State and this results in the empowerment of white supremecy at the expense of the community.
Countries need to overthrow their Eurocentric judicial systems and make null and void the contracts that allow their national resources to be plundered for pennies on the dollar.
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@LOM
“In the case of the parasitic British Empire, what ends are you talking about?”–I am going to take this as your deflection, but also as a manner of proving the many points made against you. See how quick you are on battle grounds for Irish at even a hint of them being wronged and it being excused, but willing to look at the atrocities committed against the Japanese as a mistake. You can stop trying to argue you are not racist now.
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Sure, if you are colour-blind, there seems to be nothing wrong with it. By not seeing race, you do not see racism, so what is the big deal? But to those directly affected by racism it is hardly a “distraction”. To be able to see it that way without personal harm is itself a luxury that White liberals have.
…which means that white liberals have to stick out their necks somewhat further, and must fight the battle against racism as their own cause.
From that perspective, for example, the #alllivesmatter-people should have sided with the #blacklivesmatter-people in a common battle against oppressing police violence. That is how a classic left-winger would have liked to see it.
But Abagond, if you would like to confirm what I fear: that did not happen, did it?
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LOM
You make a lot of assumptions about what you think to hide that you know nothing. Pointing out your hypocrisy and racism does not make me pro-British or Anti-Irish. In order for me to be anti-Irish I would have to hate myself and actively seek to hide my maiden name. However I am black first because my ancestral line did no stay milky white and my Irish relatives will likely disown me.
I rather join kkk than your socialist fantasy plan, but I am.black after all.
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LOM
Don’t care about history when I live in the now. People here would likely think you’re crazy and rightfully so.
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ICYMI:
@ Lord of Mirkwood
If you are not cool with the internment, why in the world do you keep making excuse after excuse for it? I do not see you making excuses for Hitler, the British Empire, the South or that man who killed Cecil the Lion.
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It wasn’t only the Japanese American Internment experience that reflected extreme racism under FDR’s administration.
In myriad other cases, Jim Crow and racist immigration policies worsened under FDR. Most were not overturned or repealed until AFTER WWII and FDR’s death.
– Truman was the first precedent to desegregate military troops (1948)
– Restrictive covenants were not declared unconstitutional until 1948; in fact, Jim Crow was generally at its strongest point during the FDR administration.
– States strengthened or added anti-miscegenation laws under FDR. The trend did not reverse until 1948 (when California’s was rescinded).
– Indian boarding schools grew and expanded under the FDR administration
– Alien land laws passed in the 1920s-1940s (often restricting the rights of native born US citizens descendant of “aliens ineligible for citizenship”) were not repealed until 1952.
– Asian exclusion laws did not begin to be repealed until 1943 (after China became a US ally against the Japanese), but they were not really repealed until the McCarran–Walter Act (1952) opening the USA up to legal non-white immigration, but not made more balanced until 1965.
This list could continue into hundreds of pages, but the record is that FDR did very little to address racism in the USA, and in fact, did the contrary. We cannot call these hundreds of incidents mere slip-ups.
If a future US president chooses to disregard the role of racism in US history and its effect on the present (and tries to make it all about “class” or something else), then he has failed to learn the lesson from studying the FDR administration or US history in general.
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@ jefe
You can add the Tydings-McDuffie Independence Act (1934) to that list. It all but shut off Filipino immigration to the mainland.
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The 1934 act was purely racist as Filipinos were already US nationals. It reclassified US Nationals already living in the USA as “aliens”. So, if they went back to the Philippines and tried to come back to the USA, they would risk being relabeled as an alien under the immigration restriction. They were also barred from family reunification, causing split families for many decades (until after 1965).
There are hundreds of very racist things done under FDR’s administration. If Sanders does become president, I certainly hope he does not take his cue from FDR even if he feels compelled not to mention race to retain his white liberal support.
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[…] Democrat – White Liberal Guide to Black People […]
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how_liberals_invented_segregation_the_real_history_of_race_equality_and_our_founding_fathers
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Sorry:
http://www.salon.com/2016/04/24/how_liberals_invented_segregation_the_real_history_of_race_equality_and_our_founding_fathers/
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And always be careful to not specifically mention a past domestic racial atrocity towards nonwhites on American soil, since someone who is knowledgeable about history will be able to point out the inconvenient fact that ALL past racial atrocities were commited under/by democrat presidencies.
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@ Offthepink
Really?
What do you mean by “past domestic racial atrocity”?
What is your time frame for these “past racial atrocities”? Are you including the Colonial period or just the period after the Constitutional Convention of 1787?
Are you including the Jacksonian Democrats who dominated the political scene from 1828 to 1860?
List ten of your so-called “past domestic racial atrocit[ies] towards nonwhites on American soil…commited under/by democrat presidencies.”
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