The police are those who are charged with protecting citizens from crime. They can arrest those suspected of breaking the law and put them in jail. They carry out court decisions. They are allowed to use violence, even deadly force, to keep the peace and preserve public safety. They maintain law and order.
That is one view. From living in New York I have come to have another view: They serve and protect the rich from the poor and whites from blacks and Latinos. They care little for black lives, even middle-class ones. They are a law unto themselves, cover up for each other and even get away with murder. Judges believe their lies, newspapers tend to take their side and the powers that be turn a blind eye.
Nearly 90% of the people that New York policemen shoot at are black or Latino. It has little to do with blacks and Latinos somehow being more dangerous: 77% of the time the police are the only ones doing any shooting!
Blacks in New York are ten times more likely to be stopped by the police than whites. It has little to do with crime: only 10% of the stops lead to an arrest or summons. Nearly half of blacks are searched for weapons when stopped while fewer than a third of whites are – even though white suspects are 70% more likely to have a weapon.
I used to live in a part of New York with a high crime rate: hundreds were shot dead every year, black and Latino. You could hear the gunfire. Then one night I saw something I will never forget: policemen along the north side of the street that served as the colour line, one every few blocks. They were guarding the quiet white and Asian neighbourhoods behind them. If blacks kill each other, who cares, so long as white people are safe.
So when white people tell me of all the crime that black people do compared to whites, which they always say like it proves something profound, I just want to roll my eyes. If their neighbourhoods were as ill-served and ill-protected by the police as black neighbourhoods are then over time they would have terrible crime rates too.
Most black men have been stopped by the police for no good reason. Obama too. And even those who have never been stopped (yet) have heard enough stories to know how racist the police can be.
The reason things like O.J. Simpson and Henry Louis Gates, Jr become such heated issues in America is because whites and blacks view the police so differently. Because their experience of them is so different.
Most whites seem to have a childlike trust in the police that is naive and unfunny. It is hard for most blacks to feel the same way. So when a Sean Bell or Oscar Grant, unarmed black men, are killed by the police it is not seen as a “mistake” but something far worse.
See also:
- slave patrols
- How white people think
- Race in New York
- Harvard
- North Carolina
- Ohio
- California
- Houston
Very insightful! But I must admit, I laughed out loud when I read the words to that picture.
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good post abagond!!
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You look out for who is more likely to do the crime! Sad but true!
Let’s see how hard you become when you are dealing with criminals, misfits and scum (all racial groups), instead of typing 500 words a day on the subject!
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Well said, Abagond.
@ Wayne: please explain your sentence “You look out for who is more likely to do the crime!”. I am very interested in your POV on this. Do you represent law enforcement in any way? Just curious.
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I want to add to the chorus. Thanks for writing Abagond. People are definitely listening and your voice is becoming more important every day.
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Blacks commit about 68 percent of all violent crime in NYC, according to police records, though they are just 24 percent of the city’s population. That crime number comes from victims and witnesses when they report attacks to the police. According to data from victims and witnesses, blacks commit about 82 percent of all shootings and 72 percent of all robberies. Whites commit about 5 percent of all violent crimes, though they make up 35 percent of the city’s population, and commit 1 percent of shootings and about 4 percent of robberies.
Now, given these crime rates, whom exactly does the abagond think the NYPD should be stopping? Police enforcement activity can reflect criminal behavior or population ratios — not both. Wherever a rash of shootings or robberies breaks out, commanders will respond by flooding the zone with officers. The highest-crime areas of the city are those with the highest proportion of black residents.
If stop-and-frisks mirrored the city’s racial, rather than crime, demographics, as abagond seems to think they should, the police would be ignoring where crime is actually occurring and who its victims and perpetrators are. Recall that victims and witnesses report in 1 percent of all shootings in the city that the perpetrator was white.
When the police are trying to track down a shooting suspect, therefore, only 1 percent of the time are they looking for a white suspect. If the police were pressured into racial parity for gun stops, they would be ignoring victim identifications and misallocating their resources in a massive way.
These crime numbers don’t mean the police are making stops based on suspects’ skin color, however. Commanders deploy officers according to one factor only: criminal activity. The city’s highest-crime areas receive the most police attention.
If you want to lower the rate of police activity in black neighborhoods, put some effort into lowering the crime rate. Attacking the police for fighting crime is a dangerous distraction.
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An interesting point.
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Nicole:
Most black men have been stopped by the police for no good reason but most black men are not crooks.
The police stop me repeatedly. Sometimes the same patrol car keeps passing me. It is a complete waste of their time, I can assure you, but apparently they do not think so.
So I am not persuaded that they allocate their resources all that wisely. You seem to be impressed by their wisdom and fairness; I am not.
I do not know the numbers, but I would be willing to bet that the NYPD grossly misallocates their resources in a way that overprotects whites and underprotects blacks.
The following post of mine is not proof, but it does make you wonder (and to me it seems completely in character for the NYPD):
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ThatChickNik
It’s all about percentages, you target people and area’s that are more likely to have a crime problem or be involved in crime.
When I was in the army I worked alongside the police for a couple of months as backup, also many of my friends were cops and we swopped stories around the fire.
Even today, in South Africa, where the majority of police are black, the raids and roadblocks are mainly around some townships and ganglands, which are predominately black area’s. These area’s have some of the highest level of brutal and sadistic violence in the world. What happens in American ghetto’s is child’s play in comparison.
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@ Wayne:
If thats your basis, and not saying that I disagree, I think you’re missing the point of this post. While I willingly admit that most of the violence that occurs in St. Louis, MO is in poor black neighborhoods, it does not negate that Police officers tend to harass the black population. Is this some form of “crime prevention”? Is this a “proactive” measure to keep crime down in these particular? Not sure. But from the way we (we meaning blacks) perceive it, its definitely prejudice at its finest. If criminal activity is what police are in pursuit of, then so be it. But honestly you cannot tell me that a black male or female (and it happens to us too) driving in a prodominately white neighborhood is considered a “crime problem” thereby needing to be pulled over and interogated (you know, like, being asked “what are you doing over here?”). Your thoughts?
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I understand and my opinion on Law Inforcers is that they have been given the mandate of protecting all people regardless of colour.
It’s easy to have a 9-5 job dealing with educated people that respect each other. A lot of cops start off thinking they are going to do good, but after years of dealing with criminals and scum, most of them lose faith, suffer from depression, anger. etc. Eventually they become as violent as the people they lock up.
I’ve seen white and black cops beat up each other’s races together on American TV. Why do you think that happens?
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Dave Chappelle has a great bit on this subject:
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/07/chappelle-on-gates.html
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Most whites seem to have a childlike trust in the police that is naive and unfunny.
And how did you come to this conclusion…? Most of the white people I know have a very ambivalent view of police. As a (white) friend of mine put it referring to your average beat cop… “Here’s a guy who quite possibly was pushed around in high school, he has a gun, he is probably angry most of the time… you could never be this guy’s friend but he has power over you for the period of time you are dealing with him… and he expects you to kiss his ass..”
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white people crack me up always talking about black people commiting crimes when black people have cable now and can see the crime white people commit. forensic files cold case files court tv fbi files AND OH YEAH DONT FORGET SNAPPED BACK TO BACK EPISODES OF YOUR PRECIOUS INOCENT WHITE WOMEN KILLING THEIR BELOVED WHITE HUSBANDS!!!!!!!!
i think white people think black people really are stupid like we dont know the kind of crime you do!! a white person will kidnap your child, have all kinds of sex with him film it sell it then murder the child and just throw his body any old place. please, dont dont trip, THIS IS NORMAL BEHAVIOR TO A WHITE PERSON. AND WHITE WOMEN ASSIST WITH THIS. white men kidnap women and then will TAUNT THE FAMILY OF THE PERSON THAT THEY’VE KIDNAPPED AND MURDERED!!! I SAW ONE FORENSIC FILE WHERE THE WHITE MAN WAS KIDNAPPING BOYS AND HIDING THEIR BODIES IN THE FLOOR OF A STORAGE UNIT!!! Z(other white boys were assiting with this) I SAW ONE WHERE THE WHTE MAN MURDERED A LITTLE GIRL IN CHURCH. SHE HAD WENT TO THE RESTROOM AND HE GOT HER AND RAPED AND MURDERED HER.
WHITE PEOPLE STOP PLAYING!WE KNOW WHAT KIND OF CRIMES YOU DO. DO YOU THINK BLACK PEOPLE ARE BLIND??? YOU THINK WE DONT KNOW YOU WILL MURDER YOUR WHOLE FAMILY FOR A $20,000 LIFE INSURANCE POLICY???
YOU NEED TO STOP POSTING THOSE STUPID CRIME STATISTICS REGARDING BLACK PEOPLE STEALING A PACK OF CIGARETTES!!! YOU LOOK LIKE A BUNCH OF FOOLS TRYING TO CONVICE BLACK PEOPLE THAT WE EVEN COME CLOSE TO DOING THE CRIMES THAT YOU DO. the crimes that you do white people black people cant even IMAGINE let alone actually do it.
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Jasmine:
While I agree with you that some white people can be pretty sick, I would not call what you see on some of those crime shows “normal”. And black people can be just as sick too, like the two men who killed Romona Moore:
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compare them 1 or 2 cases to the THOUSANDS of cases of white people doing sick shit. you know it. stop playing. you are letting white people off the hook. why? i hate the way you flip flop about white people. one minute you talking about them like a dog the next minute you taking up for them. you already know they are not part of humankind. and btw, i am not the only one that feels this behavior is normal to white people. even their own white scientist sre trying to explain their sick psychotic behavior. they are blaming the ultra violet rays of the sun (yes the same rays that give them their skin cancer). scientist are saying that the rays go inside the white boys brain and make him do sick demented shit.
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also aba, that post was for white people that charge black people with commiting more crimes. you need to delete post #15 so my post can sink in to them.
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Jasmine:
I am not flip-flopping, I just do not always agree with you. For example, I believe that white people are part of humankind and have never said otherwise:
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how can they be human when they dont have any HUE!!!
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My wife said that while black people are good by nature, apart from a few bad apples, white people were the opposite: evil by nature, apart from a few good apples.
DAMN!!!!I SEE WHY YOUR WIFE AND YOU ARE NOT TOGETHER!!! she is one deep sis !! i want to read HER blog!!! she too deep for you !! the sista got it going on mentally! go head girl!!!
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Whites do not see themselves as “white” but they see blacks as “black”. So they do not think of Ted Bundy as white – he is just Ted Bundy. But a black rapist is a BLACK rapist. To them blacks act according to stereotypes, whites act as individuals.
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“To them blacks act according to stereotypes, whites act as individuals.”
This is true.
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I think this topic is about the difference in perception in regards to the police, not who is committing what crime. for instance, drug supplying and dealing. If the police are concentrating most of their resources on black communities, perhaps this is why they have a 68% rate out of a 24% population. Meanwhile 98% of white criminals are getting away as the police do-not concentrate on their communities. Who do you think the drug suppliers are. It isn’t the guy on the street corner that’s for sure. Most of the drug suppliers live detached lives from their businesses. The black street dealer is the one most likely to be apprehended. The big dealers are caught in most instances if someone informs on them or another supplier is competing for their turf not because police are delegating resources to them in particular. So numbers mean nada as far as I’m concerned. Besides, statistics can be manipulated or skewed to reflect whatever it is one wants to advocate.
I have a brother-in-law who is a high ranking police officer. He has been stopped several time by police. In one incident, when he showed his badge the other police officer flipped out and accused my brother in-law of ‘pulling rank’ on him. My nephews who are university students have been stopped numerous times. Extended family has been stopped numerous times so I can assure you that black folks’ negative perceptions of police are not a figment of our imaginations! Throwing statistics around does-not go far in dispelling these conceptions. I’m referring to law abiding blacks being stopped randomly with no apparent probable cause.
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Thank you. It is good to hear that I am not imagining this stuff – not that I thought that I was….
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Permission to use that “postage stamp” picture ????
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I have to agree most with Nicole in this thread. If blacks are committing violent crimes at 8x the level of whites, we shouldn’t be scratching our heads wondering why people fear us more than other groups.
Remember, it was Jesse Jackson that said, “There is nothing more painful to me … than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery, then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved. ” Jesse Jackson isn’t racist against blacks obviously, he’s just lived long enough to observe certain patterns and it came out in an honest moment. So if even a long time Civil Rights leader can harbor such views in the back of his mind, you can only imagine what other races think, especially individuals with no positive personal relationships with blacks.
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Police officers search those who are most likely to break the law. Is it always politcally correct? No. Is it stereotypical? Yes. But I will tell you one thing, I would rather a “technically” policitically incorrect cop who solved crime by stopping and searching those most likely to do me or my family harm and who actually solves crime then a cop who spends 50 percent of his time stopping old, white, pensioners and solves sweet f all because he is too busy being politically correct. It’s a tough job that needs a tough, take no shit attitude because let’s face it, criminals aren’t afraid of us so I want them to fear those charged with keeping them in line. I think when certain people here decide to actually do something with their lives to help improve the human condition, to dedicate their lives or at least 30 years of it to something great like protecting the innocent from those who prey on them, when certain people spend 15 hours a day doing their best, sacrificing family celebrations, birthdays and Christmas to spend their time do ing what they can to put scum behind bars in order to protect those who obey the law, when they spend day after day doing a thankless job, being insulted and barated on a daily basis and yet getting up the next day and putting on that uniform to go back out and do it all again, then they can have an opinionon how police should act. My brother was killed in a car crash years ago. One police officer arrived at the scene first and held is hand whilst paramedics worked on him, kept him company and promised he wouldn’t leave him and watched my brother die whilst of my parents, who had arrived in the mean time, looked on. The same police officer then came to my house in tears to tell me what had happened and to tell me that my brother did not die alone on a wet street. Two days later I watched as that same police officer got the crap kicked out of him trying to arrest someone who had beat on his girlfriend outside a local bar while others around looked on and did nothing. Are the police perfect? No. Are there bad cops? Yes. Do most get up every day and do as much as they can to help genuinely good people? Of course they do. It’s a tough job with no thanks. What do you do?? Nicole, all of your points are excellent.
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abagond, you wrote:
“Nearly 90% of the people that New York policemen shoot at are black or Latino. It has little to do with blacks and Latinos somehow being more dangerous: 77% of the time the police are the only ones doing any shooting!”
After looking at some of the early responses, I saw that Nicole nailed down the reality of NY City policing with an excellent set of statistical facts.
Since you have relied on certain broad statistics that are misleading and of limited value, you should look a little closer at facts that matter.
Since blacks and latinos commit about 98% of the violent crimes in NY City, your statistics suggest cops are doing too little in minority communities.
The focus of the police department is on getting maximum efficiency from its officers. That means posting them where crime is most prevalent. There are very, very few violent crimes in the NY City neighborhoods in which I have lived.
Why? Because the white and asian residents in my neighborhoods do not assault each other.
One neighborhood in which I once lived is Windsor Terrace, Brooklyn, which is along the southwest side of Prospect Park. About two years ago someone committed a murder there. An asian woman who owned and operated a dry cleaning/laundry business in Windsor Terrace was killed at her shop.
Who killed her? The young black male who worked for her.
A jeweler was murdered in his Madison Avenue store last week. Who shot him? Witnesses — co-workers in the store — said the shooter was black.
Linda Stein was murdered in her Manhattan office about two years ago. The trial of her killer is underway now. Who killed Linda Stein? Her female assistant, who is black.
In 2009, there were about 500 murders in NY City. Of those 500 murders, the number commited by whites was close to zero.
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In England, the Socialist argue that the police were specifically created to protect the interest of the middle classes (and upper) and quelling the unrest of the poor’s discontent around 1800s, if I remember correctly.
From about 1970 till now, there has been over a thousands death in police custody, and not one officer charged with murder, and the majority of those killed have been Blacks (but not exclusively.
Personally one of the worse one was the Brazilian, Jean Charles de Menezes who was shot about 8 times on the tube as a terror suspect – which was not true.
One thing about police brutality, in countries vis-a-vis Whites like in France (African/Arabs), Australia (Aborigines), New Zealand (Maoris) etc is usually extreme for the latter.
Though I should add that police brutality is a global issue in Black, White etc countries
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Why? Because the white and asian residents in my neighborhoods do not assault each other.
Why not? There’s nothing like a good bout of fisticuffs to get the blood going! Being a boxing fan, I’d have thought you would have appreciated this! Did you move from the neighbourhood? It sounds boring.
This post is about the police stopping blacks disproportionately to whites, and providing lesser protection in some neighbourhoods. It is not about crime stats. Why must you go off on a tangent about crime stats? I am sure you know that most murders occur within the perp and victims ethnic/racial groups. When it occurs outside of this, the media jumps on it thereby skewing people’s perception of who is killing who.
“Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are more pliable.”
There seems to be more pliability in the statistics here.
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Make no mistake color is and will always be an issue, but I think you putting all the emphasis on color is wrong…it is also about class. The very poor white parts of every major city are also undeserved…not as much as ghettos, but still and issue!
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Cops are Heroes
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@The Great White Man:
Keep believing that!
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This is so very interesting, and so very sad.
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Any difference between white and black, Latino, Native etc. crime rates is due to socioeconomic factors, IE, Darnell, Joaquin or Elijah are treated extremely unfairly by society, and find it exceedingly more difficult to succeed by the normal channels than Greg, and are disenfranchised(society shows it doesn’t care about my kind, so screw them), and combined with more poverty, the formers often feel they have nothing to lose. Whatever this may sound like, what I’m trying to say is that the discrimination and exclusion of POC, especially Black people, from society has created a vacuum pulling the discriminated against toward a life of crime. I still disagree that there is a significant difference in crimes committed by whites vs Blacks/Latinos/Natives, but if there is, this is surely the cause, and not inherently lazy or immoral natures as assumed by most whites. Another point to add is that, as Abagond has mentioned before, when a racist society tells you you’re no good and will never amount to anything, you start to believe it, and get to thinking “What the hell do I have to lose”. This stereotype and it’s effects feed on themselves, reinforcing whites’ predjudiced opinion of us and (in their opinion) justify their discrimination. That’s just my own thoughts and experience anyway.
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I agree I had a child like trust of the police until my family moved into the ghetto where cops were always trolling around pulling my Latino and black friends over. Taking way to much forse arresting them even this one black lady cop did that shit. cops are corrupt. I m not sure if your aware of this though but they like to arrest white people who are with black people for no reason especially when you something about them being corrupt or saying is it necessary for you to beat him before you cuff him?
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Unfortunately the news media only highlights the police officers that violate the rights of the individuals they are supposed to protect. There are plenty of good police officers out there that go above and beyond the call of duty. Really sad that their stories are not told as well.
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^ but that is the story taught every day. Gee, what was the show “COPS” all about?
When I was mugged (robbed at knife point by 2 men) on the New York Subway, I went straight to the police desk in Times Square station. They did diddly squat about it, even wrote off it as if nothing happened.
We need more stories of police brutality and abuse to reform the behavior code of police like this event in Georgia a few days ago.
http://us.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/crime/2013/08/08/nr-brooke-lkl-police-raid-wrong-house.cnn.html
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Funny how whites that oppose affirmative action because it unfairly ‘targets’ blacks but are just fine with stop and frisk that also unfairly ‘targets’ blacks.
Wonder why?
The same arguments can be used for either.
Blacks are more likely to commit crimes.
Blacks are more likely to be unemployed, and that is even with a college degree and no criminal record. A white male with a record and without a degree is still more likely to get hired than a black male without a record and with an education. Blacks have to get two more years of education to receive the same pay as whites.
And they keep yodeling about some affirmative action, which mostly benefits white women.
I don’t see how people believe everything about our police and justice system is fair. Blacks who are 12% of drug users and yet in some places 80% of the prison population in jail for drugs, and whites look you in your face and tell you nothing is wrong. The most drugs I ever saw in my life was when I went to a predom. white, Christian school and I grew up in the inner-city!
About 27% of blacks live in poverty, compared to about 9% of whites (I don’t think that is an accident, btw). That explains nearly ALL of the crime statistics. I don’t know why people keep pushing this idea that something ‘special’ is wrong with black people.
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More about NY cops
http://us.cnn.com/2013/09/15/justice/times-square-police-shooting/index.html
They shot at a man darting through traffic in Times Square, but instead hit 2 woman bystanders instead.
But, I need to ask, why does a guy darting through traffic need to be met with deadly force? If he is not a bystander, what is he? Target for a shooting?
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A 54-year-old woman who uses a walker was struck in the lower right leg and rushed to Bellevue Hospital. Reports are that the shot broke two bones in her leg. That’s not good for a woman who already has to use a walker.
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“But, I need to ask, why does a guy darting through traffic need to be met with deadly force?”
*******
Allegedly, this “deranged” (that’s what the cops are calling him) person formed his hand to mimic the shape of a gun and pointed it a cop.
Which in this current police state environment is grounds for using deadly force, even in crowded venues packed with tourists and bystanders. No one is innocent anymore … except the cops who are just doing their job… controlling people or whatever..
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/15/jonathan-ferrell-killed_n_3931282.html
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This was really sad , tragic, and disgusting…
Where I will criticise attitudes on interracial sex , I cant tell black Americans to just trust the system , and that racism doest exist…this makes people like PraetX look foolish to imply racism is not something black Americans shouldnt be concerned about today
This ugliar and more blatent that the Martin case…my deepest sympathy to the family…and Im sad this high aceiving individual lost his life just benigno a black man seeking help from the police…
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Abagond you never speak on khazars. You allow racists to comment. I know pale people their history is required learning. Their mindset and what my oppressors chose to dictate infiltrates all media and forms of communication. Your just a pump fake tool. If not address who brings drugs, hopelessness, and destructive music into black communities. Address frankly the police are in said communities to collect slaves. As whites do the worse with no retribution.
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Hey kal, you might want to directly e-mail Abagond instead of using an old blog post to take a swipe at him.
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Copoganda: A portmanteau of the word cop and the word propaganda. An attempt at trying to paint a rosey picture of the cops as good people who protect and serve communities. I thought this was an interesting term during this time of Black Lives Matter and opposition to law enforcement.
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In 2009, Abagond wrote about the common
heavily propagandizedview of police in US society:What’s been kept fairly quiet for decades are four Federal Court decisions that have been fairly explicit about the role of the police in protecting citizens.
According to those Federal Court decisions, the police have no duty to protect citizens.
The D.C. Court of Appeals decision in the 1981 Warren v. District of Columbia case held:
https://www.findlaw.com/legalblogs/law-and-life/do-the-police-have-an-obligation-to-protect-you/
A recent Salon piece, “Uvalde shooting timeline exposes an ugly truth: The police have no legal duty to protect you”, questions about the role of the police—and their funding—in US society.
The article’s author, Amanda Marcotte writes:
.
https://www.salon.com/2022/05/27/uvalde-timeline-exposes-an-ugly-truth-the-police-have-no-legal-duty-to-protect-you/
I’ve read Marcotte’s work for years now and she also misses the point of calls for defunding the police. Activists who support “defunding” the police want a partial reallocation of local and national tax dollars.
Instead of police budgets gobbling up 40 percent or more of city and state budgets, those activists want a chunk of those billions of dollars currently spent on police to be diverted to other forms of public safety like education, healthcare, recreational facilities and housing.
I do agree with Marcotte when she says:
If our cops can’t be as brave as our 4th-grade teachers, why are we giving the cops so much more money?
If cops have no duty to protect citizens, why are our tax dollars being used to pay them?
A deeper question is, who is covered in the police’s “general public duty”, if not individual members of the public?
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” If their [White] neighbourhoods were as ill-served and ill-protected by the police as black neighbourhoods are then over time they would have terrible crime rates too.”
The lack of caring about Black people’s lives has come back to haunt White America.
There are mass shootings on a daily basis now. That violence is directly affecting White Americans in places they consider “safe” (meaning no Black people live there).
Now their own White youth are going on murderous rampages in small and medium-sized towns using military grade weaponry.
The same weaponry protected by powerful lobbying groups, politicians, the courts and corporate arms dealers.
The same weaponry White hate groups claim will “protect” them from the Black and Brown hordes supposedly “replacing” them.
In effect, White Americans are being hoist by their own petard⎯and the police cannot and will not save them.
https://interestingliterature.com/2020/07/hoist-with-his-own-petard-phrase-origins-meaning/
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https://cwbchicago.com/2022/07/chicago-police-supervisor-orders-cops-to-stop-chasing-a-carload-of-murder-suspects-audio.html
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