The lay of the land: the electoral college vote from 2016. The red states voted for Republican Donald Trump, the blue states for Democrat Hillary Clinton.
Last update: Wed Apr 8 23:15:54 UTC 2020.
In 2020 the US chooses its next president. He or she will take office on January 20th 2021.
The candidates:
A powerful third-party candidate could arise, but as it stands now a Democrat or Republican will likely win.
Here are the top Democrats and Republicans, along with their opinion poll averages (from Real Clear Politics, December 3rd).
Click on candidate pictures to go to their Twitter accounts.
Donald Trump (1946- ), far-right-wing White nationalist, is the sitting president. He won the election in 2016 by narrowly winning the Rust Belt states of Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin. Republicans did not carry those states in the 2018 midterm elections.
27.0% Joe Biden (1942- ), centre-right, gaffe-prone Democrat, was vice president under Obama (2009-17) and, before that, senator of Delaware (1973-2009). Ran for president in 1988 and 2008. Comes from Scranton, Pennsylvania, from the very Rust Belt that Trump narrowly won. And probably has more foreign policy experience than anyone running so far. Check out the Creepy Joe videos on YouTube (he has promised to do better).
16.0% Bernie Sanders (1941- ), left-wing senator of Vermont since 2007, former congressman (1991-2007) and mayor of Burlington (1981-1989). Lost the 2016 Democratic race to Hillary Clinton. Favoured by Cornel West, AOC, Ilhan Omar, and (so far) me. Dropped out April 8th.
14.0% Elizabeth Warren (1949- ), centre-left Democratic senator from Massachusetts, believes in capitalism but does not believe in the divine right of billionaires or banks to run the US as their private fiefdom – not a widely shared opinion among Democrats or Republicans in Washington. Dropped out March 5th.
11.4% Pete Buttigieg (1982- ), aka Mayor Pete, has been the mayor of South Bend, Indiana since 2012, population 101,168. Never heard of him till 2019. Does not seem to stand up to racist White cops in his own city. Favoured by the White Liberal press. Dropped out March 1st.
4.0% Michael Bloomberg (1942- ) is a billionaire and former mayor of New York (2002-13). He has been a Democrat, a Republican (2001-07), an Independent (2007-18) and then a Democrat again (2018- ). He was cool with stop-and-frisk till a week before he announced his campaign. Dropped out March 4th.
The 2020 calendar:
- Winter and spring: state party primary elections and caucuses pick delegates for the party conventions in the summer. The Democratic schedule:
- February:
- 3rd: IA.
- 11th: NH.
- 22nd: NV.
- 29th: SC.
- March:
- 3rd: Super Tuesday: AL, AR, CA, CO, MA, ME, MN, NC, OK, TN, TX, UT, VA, VT, American Samoa.
- 10th: ID, MI, MO, MS, ND, WA, Democrats Abroad.
- 14th: Northern Marianas.
- 17th: AZ, FL, IL.
- April:
- 7th: WI.
- 10th: AK.
- 17th: WY.
- 28th: OH.
- May:
- 2nd: KS, Guam.
- 12th: NE.
- 19th: GA, OR.
- 22nd: HI.
- June:
- 2nd: CT, DE, DC, IN, MD, MT, NJ, NM, PA, RI, SD.
- 6th: US Virgin Islands.
- 9th: WV.
- 20th: LA.
- 23rd: KY, NY.
- TBA: Puerto Rico.
- February:
- Summer: party conventions choose who they will run for president and vice president.
- July 13th to 16th: Democratic convention in Milwaukee, Wisconsin
- August 24th to 27th: Republican convention in Charlotte, North Carolina
- Autumn:
- September to October: television debates, last-minute scandals.
- November 3rd: the general election.
- January 20th 2021: the winner takes office.
– Abagond, 2019.
See also:
- The 2020 election:
- The 2016 election for US president
- The 2018 midterms
- Democrat
- corporate and progressive Democrats
- Bernie Sanders
- Kamala Harris
- Joe Biden – a post from 2008
- Mike Bloomberg
- Republican
- Libertarian:
- Green Party:
- 12 American presidential elections: 1800, 1820, 1840, 1860, 1880, 1900, 1920, 1940, 1960, 1980, 2000, 2012.
598
Abagond 
Reblogged this on Project ENGAGE.
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Since 1945 sitting presidents have won 72% of the time. So far only governors (Carter, Reagan, Bill Clinton) have defeated them. Senators never have (Goldwater, McGovern, Mondale, Dole, Kerry). No data on vice presidents.
The only Democratic governors currently in the race are John Hickenlooper of Colorado and Jay Inslee of Washington state. Both are currently polling at less than the margin of error.
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Oh Lord, what to do – Abagond, have you thought of running?
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Too early and too many candidates to make a decision.
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He’s got zero name recognition and he’s probably too moderate for many people here, but I haven’t uncovered a reason to hate Seth Moulton yet.
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I can’t help remembering how Joe Biden threw Anita Hill under the bus during Clarence Thomas’s Confirmation hearings when she testified Thomas sexually harassed her. Now Biden is trying to apologize and it’s a joke of an apology. Now today Biden is being accused of being creepy and violating the spaces and boundaries of women.
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that red and blue map is pretty grim
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The red and blue map has been the same for a long long time. What counts are the swing states.
Berni will help defeat the democratic front runner, he is an independent who probably cannot carry the nation. People hated Hillery and Berni helped them “not vote”!
At the present moment in time, we do not even know if their will be a 2020 election for president, by then the current president may have declared himself to be “president for life”.
The split in the Democratic party is so great that 39 percent of Trump supporters may be a deciding number.
Just think about all of you will not vote because you do not like someone.
Whatever you do do not forgive anyone for their past bad deeds, punish them with a non support active movement, no matter how capable they may be!
As I see the 39 percent Trump vote I see “white supremacy” supported by ignorance! Be aware and remember very few states really count in national elections, because of the separation of people into various groups. (southern, western, central USA, Texas and California. ‘Christian radicals” and of course race concentration.
@abagond: Could you report on the vote of the many states over the past 90 years. How many of them have been red states . Do not forget to count the south as red states when they called themselves Southern Democrats.
What is the agenda of the current Republican Party?
The responsibilities of the president of the United States are so massive it is not a reward, it is a punishment!
We need a president that “can do” not some one we like!
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There are currently 16 candidates who have qualified for the Democratic debates. It will be held over a two day period.
The outcome of that should give us a better idea of who has the pulse of the country and the potential to move forward.
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If you ask me, both parties are 2 sides of the same coin. With the electoral college, there is little point in voting outside of local
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The Democrats are going to end up like the Starks in Game Of Thrones if they don’t get their act together and end up with al, their heads on a stick. Time is wasting and Trump and the rest of his evil flying monkey minions need to be thrown out and restore our government and country back to sanity. How long are we going to be forced to live in this insane nightmare?
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There is a negligible chance that Trump won’t win again. All the world is voting against the Left. There’s an election now in Spain, and the leftist brazilian journalists are claiming 10% spaniards became fascists and will vote VOX. They are wrong and wrong. VOX is antifa, and they will get 30% or more
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http://www.thewrap.com/every-important-dead-game-thrones-character-forgot-photos/
had to double check, but pretty sure eddard ‘ned’ stark was the only stark per se to end up beheaded on a spike, even though we should all (?) remember the red wedding …hmm it’s been a while since o read the books…
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http://gameofthrones.fandom.com/wiki/Red_Wedding
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at least obama kept gas at $3
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I clicked the link to the creepy Joe videos, and it was no doubt creepy over-touchy predator family friend uncle vibes. I think he shouldn’t run for his own good because the #metoo movement will definately give someone the confidence to finally talk…
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@Abagond
What criteria did you use to determine the candidates political leanings? (ie centre right, left wing, etc)
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@ kngjah91
Good question! In my mind it goes something like this:
far-right – White nationalism
right – naked capitalism
centre-right – regulated capitalism
centre-left – democratic socialism
left – socialism
far-left – communism
In terms of US presidents:
far-right – Trump
right – Reagan, Bush I, Bush II
centre-right – Eisenhower, Kennedy?, Nixon, Ford, Bill Clinton, Obama
centre-left – Franklin Roosevelt, Truman, Johnson, Carter
left –
far-left –
So, to be fair, I need to update the post and make Trump far-right and Elizabeth Warren centre-left:
far-right – Trump
right –
centre-right – Biden, Harris, Buttigieg?
centre-left – Warren
left – Sanders
far-left –
Most Republicans in 2019 are right-wing, most Democrats are centre-right.
I used say the Democrats were on the left. They were and, compared to the country as a whole, still are. But to say that someone like Barack Obama is on the left is nuts: he took money and advisers from the big banks on Wall Street. He himself said that he was not far different than Eisenhower, a Republican president, and would have been called a moderate Republican back in the 1980s. I agree. What made him “moderate” is that he was unwilling to let people die for the sake of naked capitalism. Republicans, as naked capitalists, are, as shown by their opposition to universal health care in a rich country with a declining life expectancy.
Another way to think of it:
right: money > people
centre-right: money = people
left: money < people
That was why I put Warren on the left, but since she is not an outright socialist, she is just centre-left.
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@ Abagond
Interesting that your breakdown goes along economic lines except for the far-right.
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@abagond The phrase “white nationalism” might be alright if you are referring to whites in the US.
There seems to be a “white movement” all over Europe, which means it is not “nationalism” but “globalism”!
The actions of individuals are a response to communication from everywhere. Most of the individuals are mentally damaged in some form, which allows them to be easily controlled by rhetoric.
How do we separate the radical religious movement which is supporting our president from white supremacy, which today is spreading all over Eurasia?
The goal of the current Republican Party (Radical) has to do with Social issues in the US such as abortions, Sex (homosexuality) and other biblical subjects. I imagine most of the money supporting President Trump comes from religion!
The disaster of the Middle East has impacted the northern portions of Europe.
No northern nation has escaped the problems brought on by the destruction of the property of the people of Southern Europe (the Middle East) and Africa.
You can trace this movement back to the 1948 agreement to remove people from the area now known as Israel and continuing with one bad agreement after another including Libya and Iraq.
Today, means are being supplied to Saudi Arabia to bomb other nations and we are building bases in Africa to control. More migration!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Germany#Ethnic_minorities_and_migrant_background_(Migrationshintergrund)
https://www.trtworld.com/magazine/what-is-it-like-to-be-a-black-person-in-germany–16498
The results are a heavy migration of brown individuals into a part of the world that has been traditionally all white.
Try moving 5 million blacks from the deep south into any state west of the states adjacent to the Mississippi and east of the Rockies. Imagine what happens! You would even have problems moving such a large population into Arkansas, Louisiana or Missouri.
Please study the pre-World War I beliefs of Europeans about brown (black) people!
It may be true that some portion of integration may be possible; however, it is not possible to jam two or more groups of individuals with such a wide differences in culture, religion, race, ethnics and social mores together without a massive violent reaction.
Just who do you really blame for this current mess?
By the way, the past 500 years have been full of wars in Europe between different ethnic and religions and nations.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_conflicts_in_Europe
What solution do you have beside blaming “all white” people for being prejudice which seems to be some individuals response?
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re:Solitaire
yeah, if we measure right and left wing politics according to economics, then far right economics should be naked capitalism carried to a more extreme level, eg,
– banning of organized labour
– prevention of opportunities for the working class to attain education, land, or capital
– privatisation of services that are provided or partially provided by the state, or at least heavily regulated by the State, eg, education, incarceration, poverty alleviation (this is probably completely discontinued), health care, public security, fire services, disaster relief, militia, transportation, utilities
so, I suppose it would be a move towards feudalism (which could include sharecropping), slavery or forced involuntary labour, or a permanent economic caste system. It also implies exploiting the environment to the extreme.
It could be organized along white nationalist lines, but it doesn’t have to be.
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@ jefe @ Solitaire
I agree White nationalism does not logically fall in line with the rest of the spectrum, but it is what empirically occupies that position in the US.
Slavery would follow the logic, though: money matters so much more than people that people can actually be bought and sold. And neo-Confederate types are in fact mostly White nationalists.
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Rev. Al Sharpton and Pete Buttigieg having a meal at Sylvia’s Restaurant in New York. Buttigieg cares nothing for black people so that would be a waste of a vote for me also.
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I would say anything that prevents the labouring class from exerting any control over their own labour, from acquiring assets or capital, or from seeking an education and puts the power of the society into very few hands would satisfy this, of which slavery is one possible manifestation.
If we focus purely on money, maybe we should call extreme right-wing systems a plutocracy. If we refer to both money and power concentrated into few hands, then we call it an oligarchy.
What is obvious is that the US economic system has shifted to the right over the past 35-40 years.
– people have less control over their own labour, ie, right to organize and to exert free control over their own labour, hence, less labour protection and attaching benefits like retirement (eg, vesting) and health care to one’s job. If one changes jobs, they are likely to lose both. It also discourages them from becoming entrepreneurs.
– people are locked out of the property market or attaining assets. Anything designed to get people out of their homes, eg, predatory lending or reverse mortgages, can do the trick.
– people incur huge debts just for an education to work in a labour market that is neither very free nor equitable. They may remain in debt for their entire lives.
– war on drugs, mass incarceration restricts people’s ability to have control over their lives
– restriction of voting rights, esp. of those who would vote for the “wrong” people
– privatisation of services keeps them out of most people’s reach, and only people who can afford it can enjoy it.
You would imagine that such a system, in the absence of slavery or a permanent caste system, would like to encourage the importation of cheap indentured labour that is not allowed to immigrate and become a permanent resident. Maybe the way to do that is to make the labour permanently “foreign” and attached to their approved labour or otherwise risk becoming “illegal”. This explains why the coolie trade followed the slave trade. But, in the USA, white nationalism is used to keep working class whites supporting a system designed to exploit them.
Threat of deportation is a weapon to keep undocumented workers with no path to citizenship in line, yet still economically productive for low wages.
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@ Abagond
“I agree White nationalism does not logically fall in line with the rest of the spectrum”
I was actually thinking in the opposite direction, that the rest of the spectrum isn’t falling in line with white nationalism. That it might be possible to define the rest along the same lines.
But on the other hand, the economic spectrum is probably the most concise way to sum it all up.
“Slavery would follow the logic, though: money matters so much more than people that people can actually be bought and sold.”
Agreed.
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(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PycyKB4-6TE)
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re: solitaire
If we define along these lines, how would you define the polar opposite of white nationalism? What would be a centrist position?
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@ Jefe
I’d have to give that some thought.
A starting place might be the posts Abagond has done on white liberals and race.
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@ Mary
Sharpton was on MSNBC speaking in Buttigieg’s favour saying that he represents and understands “the Other”, as if gay White men cannot also be White racists (cough Milo Yiannopoulos cough), as he does not know about Mayor Pete’s own record in giving cover to the racist police officers of his city.
I thought maybe Sharpton was being quoted out of context, but if so, he quoted himself out of context on his own Twitter account:
(https://twitter.com/TheRevAl/status/1122956243931422720)
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I will be supporting Elizabeth Warren for President! She is the ONLY candidate so far that has released detailed progressive policies that will help minorities tremendously.
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According to a Morning Consult poll of Democratic primary voters that came out yesterday, Sanders and Buttigieg do best among White men and Warren best among White women. As you would expect. But Biden does best among Black women (47%), and Kamala Harris best among Black men (11%).
Biden has nearly half of Black people and old people, but Sanders beats him among young people.
Buttigieg statistically ties Sanders among old people but is nowhere when it comes to Black voters.
Among all Democratic primary voters:
36% Biden
22% Sanders
9% Warren
8% Buttigieg
7% Harris
Under age 30:
36% Sanders
23% Biden
7% Warren
6% Harris
5% Buttigieg
Age 65 or older:
48% Biden
11% Buttigieg
10% Sanders
8% Warren
7% Harris
Black women:
47% Biden
18% Sanders
9% Harris
7% Warren
2% Buttigieg
Black men:
40% Biden
21% Sanders
11% Harris
5% Warren
2% Buttigieg
Source:
Click to access Political-Intelligence-4.29.19.pdf
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@ akim67
Of all the candidates the only three that appeal to me at all are Sanders, Warren, and Tulsi Gabbard. Of those Warren SEEMS to be the most pro-Black, but I need to know more about her. Things are not always what they seem at first. I would be interested to know what Cornel West says about Warren.
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Why does Biden do so well among Black women exactly?
Also, are there any polls which include results from Latino, Asian, Multiracial, Native American Pacific Islander and “other” voters? By including only non-Hispanic whites and blacks, about 1/4 of the population is ignored.
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@ jefe
I have not seen any polls like that yet. I was just glad to see one that broke out the Black vote.
I think Biden has an edge with Black voters, and women in particular, because he was Obama’s vice president, Obama speaks highly of him, Biden has a Black female political strategist (Symone Sanders) – and most people seem to be forgetting about the whole Anita Hill thing. Biden is STILL treating her shabbily (his non-apology to her on the eve of his announcement). That SHOULD come back to bite him – but who knows, maybe not. Politics is a field where douchebags can prosper.
Biden is also demonstrably a racist – blakksage gave an example. But then so was Hillary Clinton, yet that did not seem to hurt her with Black voters during the primaries (though it arguably cost her Michigan and therefore the presidency in the general election).
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@ Jefe
I found this on the Hispanic vote:
https://theintercept.com/2019/04/06/bernie-sanders-latino-hispanic-voters/
There is a table breaking down the poll results per candidate after the 3rd paragraph.
Also, you might find this interesting: Nate Silver at FiveThirtyEight is grouping Hispanics and Asians together as a core target group for the Democratic race. He explains his rationale way down in the article, under the heading “Group 5. Hispanic voters, sometimes in conjunction with Asian voters”
https://www.google.com/amp/s/fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-5-key-constituencies-of-the-2020-democratic-primary/amp/
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Well Senator Kamala Harris handed AG Barr his hindparts in the Senate Judiciary Hearings today. She asked him simple questions and he seemed to have trouble answering them. I think she could take Trump in a debate he is not very smart and she probably could make him soil his underwear. It is just my humble opinion but I think Trump low key is shook by Joe Biden despite his shenanigans of calling him Sleepy Joe.
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AG Barr reminds me of Fred Flinstone
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Buttigieg reminds of boiled, unseasoned chicken breast he’s so bland.
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Being bland and unappealing as boiled, unseasoned chicken breast might be appealing to a large number of white gay males. He’s such a bland fellow.
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Trump will not be re-elected. From what I hear he has lost his base. They expected him to limit immigration but he hasn’t done anything on that issue.
To get them back he would have to either make significant progress on building “The Wall” or else make some other very public moves like cancelling all H1B visas, rounding up and deporting tons of people etc.
The Republican party is quite disconnected from its base. The party is focused on pleasing Israel and passing tax cuts for the rich, to satisfy their donor class.
Anything that might help the average American doesn’t hit their radar.
I believe a Mr. Potato Head doll will beat Trump as long as it has a D by its name. As was said above there are just too many D candidates to see who will come out on top at this time.
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I would support a gay candidate if he/she was a good candidate but Buttigieg is not a good candidate in my opinion.
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@Pete
” From what I hear he has lost his base. ”
Then you’re listening to very different folks than me.
“To get them back he would…”
Seriously, he just has to not be a liberal, or perceived as a wuss… that’s it, they’re more scared of anyone that might ‘come for their guns’, ‘take away their hard-earned money and give it to someone else’ and ‘letting Political Correctness run amok’ than they are of electing an idiot. They’re indoctrinated to believe Democrats are liberals and that liberals are hippies that are opposed to the ‘survival of the fittest’ / colonizing attitude that stole this country from one race and ‘made it great’ off the backs of another. His base will absolutely vote for him, regardless of whether or not they hate him or are ashamed of him. If he’s their only option, they will vote for him and the more he’s under attack, the more they see themselves under attack and the more desperate they become.
Meanwhile, the moderates can go either way, Leave him alone just enough that his base becomes apathetic enough to skip voting and run a Democrat that moderates can get behind and you’ll have the election. Then, once he’s out of office, even his own base will come for him like hungry wolves… they love the drama of the whole “The bigger they are, the harder they fall”.
Make no mistake, his base alone cannot re-elect him, but Republican fear and Moderate apathy can absolutely do it again. Don’t let the mid-term house win lull you… Democrats failed to gain ground in the Senate in spite of record turnout. Translation, we’re like 5 or 6 facebook memes away from a second Trump term.
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Impossible. It’s a matter of simple math. Trump won due to less than 100,000 votes in Pennsylvania, Ohio and Wisconsin combined. Over the last two years we’ve been importing more than 250,000 new legal immigrants (all POC) per year, and this shows no sign of slowing down. POC immigrants vote overwhelmingly Democratic.
Not only that, but Trump people are older then average while Democratic voters are young. A new crop of Democratic voters turns 18 every year, while more Trump voters die off every year.
Trump’s actions since his election have alienated a lot of voters. Obstruction of justice, paying off prostitutes, trolling on Twitter, instituting tariffs that raise the price of things Americas need – all of this has lost him quite a few voters. And I doubt any of these things has GAINED him even one new voter.
Trump may be a great salesman but he can’t beat math.
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re: Pete
re: Open minded Observer
I think these are both true. And they can still combine together to re-elect Trump in some fashion.
One thing that no one on this blog discusses is the status of the US-China Trade War talks. One of my biggest beefs about the Obama-Biden era was their incredibly soft stand on the PRC and CCP. The only stand they seemed to take was about their human rights abuses (and a wimpy one at that), but nothing really on the economics and militarization of the PRC and their goal to overtaking the USA by crushing it, after taking advantage of the USA for decades.
If the Obama-Biden era had continued unabated as it was doing, we would already have the “One Belt One Road” and “Made in China 2025” a reality by 2020.
If Trump can make the PRC cower without the US economy faltering, then that might make up somewhat for not building “The Wall” or enforcing immigration bans. If Trump manages to make strong headway on that, and people like Biden with a wishy-washy policy on that might suffer. Being anti-Trump is not enough.
At least Sen Chuck Schumer (D-NY) have publicly supported the President in being tough in the Trade talks.
Democratic candidates have weighed very little on foreign policy and especially on this issue. If Elizabeth Warren indeed “has a plan” then she had better communicate it soon.
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Updated the poll numbers. The net change over the past two months is that Elizabeth Warren has moved from fifth to third place, mainly by eating into support for Sanders.
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Updated poll numbers. Warren moves to second, Harris drops to fifth. AOC and Ihan Omar endorse Sanders.
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Today could be the beginning of a rehash of 2016 mistakes with Hilary coming out of the woodwork to insinuate, without evidence, that a veteran, former vice chair of the Democratic National Committee, senator, current member of the Hawaii National Guard, and candidate for president, could be a Russian asset. The party does not need her polarizing influence; she’ll make it harder for democrats to unite behind a candidate if they feel someone was unfairly disadvantaged by Hilary’s influence or smears.
Bernie Bros part deux in the making.
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By the way, I’m just speaking from the standpoint of analyzing the political dynamics. I think the situation on the ground is largely the same for black people regardless of who wins.
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oops, I said she was a senator but she’s in the house of representatives.
Correction.
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Updated poll numbers, removed Harris (she dropped out), added Bloomberg.
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lol@the Bloomberg picture.
Harris got a lot of positive attention initially but her campaign’s vacillation on issues such as healthcare hurt her I think. She seemed uncertain about whether she wanted to rival Bernie or be a centrist alternative. Furthermore her record as a prosecutor in California really clung to her like a bad smell. In the last few weeks, the writing was on the wall.
As for Bernie, despite the fact that his credibility took a hit from endorsing HRC last time around, there isn’t a really solid establishment candidate this time (Biden is shaky) and Warren, who many thought could cannibalize him, has been losing support.
However, I think the party dislikes him quite a bit (there were even reports that Obama would get involved if Sanders started getting close to the nomination). He’s the Democratic Party’s Trump, popular with the people but hated by the establishment.
The funny thing is that Sanders probably has the best chance of beating Trump out of all the candidates for the nomination. Trump is widely regarded as a failure some people might be cocky but the electoral college is still a thing and Trump remains competitive in the swing states. In the end it really doesn’t matter how decisively California or New York is won.
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My original reply didn’t show up for some reason but I just want to say:
LOL @ the Bloomberg picture.
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@ Origin
It was the most accurate picture I could find 😉
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Kamala Harris has dropped out of the race. Her whole campaign just fell apart. I thought she was a smart, and accomplished woman but personally she was not my choice. She just didn’t resonate with me. Joe Biden and Buttigieg are awful as well. I do like Elizabeth Warren and Julian Castro. Castro is one I really love. He is for the people. Especially the poor, working class and the other most vulnerable who are deemed not valuable to society.
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The blue check mark Twitterers are having Kamala Harris’s Presidential campaign’s funeral. So many think pieces being written. The billionaires fear Elizabeth Warren. Mayor Pete Buttigieg infuriates and offends me. Poor Uncle Joe needs to go home. But Black baby boomers want him. This infuriates me as well. #Castro2020👍🏿
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Harris called herself a “top cop.” So that didn’t help either considering many Black folks went to prison while she was a prosecutor and had their lives ruined. So that rubbed lots of Black folks the wrong way, I know it made me have bias against her and her truancy law hurt poor Black folks. It’s that affluent Jack and Jill negroes that loved her.
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@ Mary
The “top cop” thing doomed her from the start and rightly so. The Black vote was hers to lose – and she lost it. Bye bye.
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@ Mary
Do tell. I am thinking of doing a post on him and Black voters.
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@ Mary
Castro is not getting the shine he deserves. Instead we have to pretend Bloomberg is a Democrat.
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@abagond
“It was the most accurate picture I could find 😉”
And it’s worth a thousands words, lol.
Bloomberg is the anti-Bernie. I bet he’d love to crush Bernie’s campaign just as he crushed the Occupy Protests by having police raid Zucotti Park in NYC.
As for Mayor Pete Buttigieg, he has some issues with his response to police shootings in his own town of South Bend, Indiana. The exchange below is interesting, to say the least.
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBAXJCAe4FA)
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@Mary
“The blue check mark Twitterers are having Kamala Harris’s Presidential campaign’s funeral. So many think pieces being written.”
I don’t know why they’re bemoaning the end of Harris’ campaign so much, even hating Tulsi Gabbard for her debate challenge which put a spotlight on Harris’ record as CA Attorney General. Are those blueticks naive? If she became the nominee Trump would have destroyed her simply by comparing his record to hers.
Lest we forget, Trump actually signed a criminal justice reform bill into law last year (with bipartisan support from democrats like Kamala Harris) which reduced mandatory minimums for some drug crimes, among other things. Yet blueticks want to send Kamala, who oversaw over 1900 marijuana convictions in California and who would imprison mothers for their child’s truancy, into battle with him?
SMH, LOL. It would’ve been extremely embarrassing for Republicans to point out those facts after she’d already been picked as the nominee. Imagine, being shown to be more of a jailer than Trump who’s widely considered to be racist. If Gabbard’s debate challenge played a role in destroying Harris’ front runner status, Democrats who want to win in 2020 should be sending Tulsi flowers.
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Update: Bloomberg passes Buttigieg, Bernie closes in on Biden. Warren is flat. Booker and Castro have dropped out.
27.2% Biden
23.5% Sanders
15.0% Warren
8.0% Bloomberg
6.7% Buttigieg
Over the past two months, Bloomberg’s support has doubled, Buttigieg’s has been cut in half.
Seven others remain in the race: Yang (4.7), Klobuchar (4.3), Steyer (1.8), Gabbard (1.5), Bennet (0.5), Patrick (0.3), Delaney (0.3).
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Delaney dropped out too, a few days ago. He was such a non-entity that I am only finding out about it now.
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For the past 40 years, the Democrat who won that Iowa caucus went on to win the nomination 80% of the time.
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@abagond
Which poll is that? Iowa or the nation? When?
I see so many different polls report differed results.
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@ jefe
I go by Real Clear Politics’ average of national polls, which going to be more accurate than any single poll:
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/us/2020_democratic_presidential_nomination-6730.html
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Bernie wins the nomination or no chance to beat Trump, just like last time.
But, just like last time, the DNC establishment would rather lose to Trump.
Just my opinion, as of now.
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@ Origin
I agree. The DNC and the big donors would massively prefer Trump over Bernie. That is why the DNC changed the rules so Bloomberg can qualify for the Nevada debate. A courtesy they did not extend to Cory Booker, he who warned them the debates would become all-White, which they have.
The DNC might as well put up the nomination to the highest bidder and be done with it. They have little interest in a functioning democracy.
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@abagond
Exactly. The red carpet being rolled out for Mr. Moneybag is so blatant. Bloomberg got in even after they’d previously invoked “unique donor” thresholds to disqualify other candidates from the debates.
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LOL, as we were saying…
Big Sanders win expected at Iowa caucus but, as of my typing this, no results are forthcoming due to “technical issues”.
Nonetheless Buttigieg has apparently has declared victory even in the absence of any official results.
Meanwhile the company which made the buggy voting app is ominously named “Shadow Inc.” and is associated with Tara McGowan who’s a democratic digital strategist.
You can’t make this stuff up!
Is this the beginning of the events which will lead to Trump’s destined second term?
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Update: Biden is dropping like a rock, falling now to second place in the Real Clear Politics’ average of national polls. Bloomberg passes Warren and is now third. Yang drops out.
23.0% Sanders
20.4% Biden
12.6% Bloomberg
13.0% Warren
10.4% Buttigieg
Sanders’s followers seem to be the most fired up.
Bloomberg, one of the richest men in history, has by far the most money.
Buttigieg is adored by the White Liberal press for reasons that escape me.
Biden, as Obama’s former vice president, is depending on the Black vote, which was his secret weapon, but seems to be slipping away.
Warren, presumably, has a plan.
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Predictions:
#1. The Democratic race is going to boil down to Sanders v Bloomberg.
#2. Bloomberg will win the Democratic nomination.
#3. Trump will defeat Bloomberg. Not outright but by way of the Supreme Court.
#4. Ivanka will defeat either AOC or Michelle Obama in 2024.
#5. The US will lurch into fascist White rule.
Thank God I am not good at predicting things:
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2015/10/07/my-past-predictions-for-the-future/
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1: I think this is plausible, though I think it will be Sanders vs. Warren (trying to rehash 2016) more likely
2: A more “establishment” candidate will win the nomination (Biden, Warren, Bloomberg)
3: I think that you’re right about Trump winning re-election.
4: AOC will be undoubtedly humiliated and forced to drop out of the race early should she choose to run–Michelle Obama, too.
5: The US already is in a state of fascist White rule. If you’re saying it will get worse–than I wholeheartedly agree.
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@Abagond
“Buttigieg is adored by the White Liberal press for reasons that escape me.”
Seriously? There’s nothing about him that you think liberal media wouldn’t be championing? Maybe Biden’s homophobic ad about Buttigieg installing decorative lights and decorative bricks offers a clue.
“Biden, as Obama’s former vice president, is depending on the Black vote, which was his secret weapon, but seems to be slipping away.”
Iowa and New Hampshire wouldn’t necessarily be good indicators of this, I suspect he’ll hang on through South Carolina to see.
“The Democratic race is going to boil down to Sanders v Bloomberg.”
My thoughts exactly. I suspect that antisemitism is more of a Republican voter trait whereas greed and anti-socialism are more bipartisan, so I’m thinking your prediction #2 is also correct.
As for the rest of your predictions… God help us all.
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The question is not if Trump will win, but how many states he will lose. If the DEMs chose a commie, maybe Trump will win 50×0
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Omg biden talking about ak-47’s and airstrikes, since an f15 would be rather useless against a manned stealth fighter i can only assume he implied the us govt could willingly do drone strikes in posse comitatus, so there’s that and mike stop n frisk b made a similar condescension/regular whistle with crime stats i only could think of MOVE since, you know cobbs creek is technically sw.
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Jesus christ
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Update: Pete Buttigieg and Tom Steyer drop out in the wake of the South Carolina primary.
Six Democrats are left:
29.6% Bernie Sanders
18.8% Joe Biden
16.4% Mike Bloomberg
11.8% Elizabeth Warren
4.0% Amy Klobuchar
1.4% Tulsi Gabbard
I updated the Democratic primary schedule. Every state has now announced a date. Some have moved their date up.
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Predictions:
Warren and Klobuchar will get wiped out by Super Tuesday (March 3rd) and drop out within the week.
Biden and Bloomberg will be left to fight over the centre lane while Sanders pulls ahead on the left lane.
Gabbard will go on gabbarding.
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Klobuchar has now dropped out too. Both she and Buttigieg are endorsing Biden.
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Update: In the wake of Super Tuesday, removed Bloomberg, who dropped out to support Biden, and added Tulsi Gabbard. Updated national poll numbers – Biden pulls back into the lead:
27.5% Biden
26.0% Sanders
16.5% Warren
1,7% Gabbard
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On February 12th I said:
I am so glad I was wrong!!!!
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I think Biden will win the Nomination and lose. It will be a final repudiation of President Obama and the democratic party’s policy of benign neglect of Black people. You can’t win the white house without the black vote.
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Update: Elizabeth Warren drops out without endorsing anyone – yet. Biden pulls further ahead in the national poll average:
34.3% Biden
26.8% Sanders
1.7% Gabbard
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Can Abagond consider doing a post explaining why black support for Biden is so consistently high? He is no friend to black people.
Even though I might be more ideologically aligned with Bernie, I do admit that he is not always the most pleasant. It feels like he is yelling at people all the time.
Biden is looking more and more like a doddering dotard. And now that Trump has avoided impeachment, Hunter Biden’s connections to company director boards in Ukraine and the PRC are now fair game for attack. Biden is doomed.
After Iearning about Hunter Biden a year ago, I was praying that Joe Biden would not run. My prayers got kicked in the face.
My prediction: It would not surprise me if Biden picks Buttegieg to be his vice-president. Some 40 years younger would be his insurance ticket.
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@ jefe
Yes! A post on Biden and Black voters is definitely in order. And an update to my one on Sanders and the Black vote that I did in 2016.
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The way the candidates who dropped out, apart from Bill De Blasio, have all rallied behind a doddering dotard is horrifying for me. I really expect that soon he will forget for which president he was VP under.
They really want Trump re-elected.
What kind of miracle could happen? Covid 19 infecting the White House?
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I’m not a fan of The Nation magazine and website. However, this article, “Bernie Can Still Win – He doesn’t have to sacrifice his positive vision to eviscerate Joe Biden” gives an interesting analysis of Bernie’s strengths and Biden’s weaknesses vis a vis Trump.
It is a post Super Tuesday look at the Democratic primary field that reminds readers that The Fat Lady has not yet sung her final aria.
https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/sanders-media-biden-primary/
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Gaffe-prone Biden as the nominee = another democratic own goal.
It’s a good thing the party never tried picking an uncharismatic centrist to go up against Trump before or things would start looking rather silly.
AR-14…lol
My crystal ball wants to say, “Expect another 4 years of MSNBC blaming the Russians and the “Bernie Brothers” [sic]”, but part of me is still hedging that Sanders will come through as the nominee. I suspect that issues which will become topical will just happen to help him.
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Bernie Sanders has suspended his campaign. Guess we riding with Biden.
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Social media got it wrong (Twitter) Sanders has not suspended his campaign. Although I don’t see how he can catch up with Biden. Lots of disinformation on social media.
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Reports on social media are premature and false.
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There has been a sexual assault allegation against Joe Biden from a former staffer (Tara Reade) and there has also been (mostly) silence from the media. I know it was on yahoo so I used “duck dot com”s search engine with the phrase “yahoo joe biden sexual assault” to find the article I had read. The search engine found the page but the link is now broken.
I found an archive of the article here:
http://archive.is/C8ers
The establishment Dems seem really set on throwing this read meat (Joe Biden) to Trump and the Republicans. Not only is he compromised, but he currently lacks the mental acuity to successfully deflect attacks. He can barely handle a softball interview these days. The strategy of nominating an “iffy” candidate on the gamble that Trump would be seen as worse gave Trump the presidency the last time. This is obviously a risk the DNC is happy to take since they know they’re just a different coat of paint on the “corporatocracy”.
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I watched the Biden/Sander debate and thought that Sanders was truthful and Biden evasive and aloof.
Today Trump brought the hammer down on GM to produce ventilators. I can see Sanders doing that but can’t envision Biden being that forceful.
He appears weak but maybe I am wrong.
Politico had an article about Biden hiding out in his basement. His political team is studying what happened during the elections of 1918. Poor voter turnout. That I believe will hurt Biden.
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Update: Tulsi Gabbard drops out. Many states rescheduled their primaries because of the coronavirus pandemic. Wisconsin, infamously, did not. The new dates appear above. June 2nd has become Super Tuesday Jr.
Most of the populous north-east has yet to vote.
National poll average:
57.5% Biden
34.8% Sanders
But with the pandemic, Democratic governors like Andrew Cuomo or Jay Inslee would now make much more compelling candidates. Inslee was in the race but dropped out early, back in August.
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Sanders out!
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/08/politics/bernie-sanders-drops-out/index.html
I thought Bernie would have stayed in the race but I guess having the whole party line up behind Biden [John Lewis had just endorsed him] proved too much. This is now a similar situation to 2016: a centrist democrat, with a record that can be iffy at times, versus Trump. As incumbent, I have to say that I think Trump has a fighting chance vs Biden.
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Update: Bernie Sanders dropped out.
I greyed out his profile and added Warren, Buttigieg and Bloomberg back in, greyed out too, with their drop-out dates and December 3rd poll numbers.
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Bernie endorses Biden.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/13/politics/bernie-sanders-endorses-joe-biden/index.html
It’s a replay of 2016 so far, we’re just awaiting the crying after November (?)
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So a clip of Larry King’s show in which the mother of Biden’s accuser (his accuser is Tara Reade) called in to mention an issue her daughter was having in Washington with a senior senator. Tara Reade’s mother has since passed away. The call happened back in the 90s and corroborates Reade’s claim that she mentioned the incident to family members back then.
It’s interesting that this was originally broadcast on CNN but CNN was scooped. Someone found their own footage before they did. Below is a video of Fox host Tucker Carlson discussing the clip.
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uy84FpqNFtU)
It’s a shame that in a country of over 300 million people, the political system has conspired to reduce the main choices for President to two men such as Biden and Trump.
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This already has more corroboration than the whole Christine Blasey Ford incident with the Supreme Court nominee.
https://www.businessinsider.com/former-neighbor-corroborates-joe-bidens-accuser-2020-4
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It’s the hypocrisy that’s really something else, you know. Establishment dems considered Trump and Kavanaugh disqualified by the accusations against them…
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So #FireChrisHayes began trending on twitter because the MSNBC reporter dared to cover Tara Reade’s allegations against Biden.
Here is what he said:
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSt2fiJhdCI)
The scenario feels so rehashed right now. Once again the Dem establishment has chosen a significantly flawed presidential candidate from its field of contenders but will not take responsibility for this. Instead they’ll react angrily to those flaws being exposed while blaming people who didn’t support their candidate for any loss at the national level.
Biden’s flaws are potentially more damaging to Democrats than Trump’s are to Republicans because Dems often frame themselves as the “moral” choice. Obvious hypocrisy is more problematic when you’re claiming the moral high ground.
People who previously believed that propaganda are likely to become disillusioned by the inconsistent partisan reaction to what was framed as a moral issue when Republicans were caught up in it. The whole endeavor is revealed to be a team sport rather than a process driven by differences over policy positions.
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@ Origin
They need to fire Chris Hayes before the Republicans find out about Tara Reade 😉
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@abagond
LOL, it’s ridiculous!
But that’s probably how they’re thinking.
Even though primaries were held, Biden really was “selected”.
Before Super Tuesday almost every other candidate dropped out and endorsed Biden in an obviously coordinated move. Also, while liberal media pundits like Chris Matthews were implying that Sanders’ movement was like the Nazis, they completely declined to vet Biden in any way. So I guess we now find ourselves in a re-enactment of the “Emperor’s New Clothes”.
“Shhh..child.”
“Oh, Emperor, what grand raiment!”
“But mummy, he is n….”
gag
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@Abagond
Any chance this is still coming?
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@ jefe
I think so.
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possible Biden-related posts:
1994 Crime Bill
neoliberalism
Tara Reade
Biden and the Black vote
Joe Biden 2020
Joe Biden 1988
Anita Hill
busing
Larry Summers
The Iraq War
The War in Afghanistan
Joe Biden, brought to you by…
I am open to suggestions!
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Where were the Russians allegedly responsible for Trump’s 2016 victory? Did they decide Trump wasn’t worth helping or did the US election machinery reach such level of perfection that their efforts to intervene were blocked?
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@gro jo
“Where were the Russians allegedly responsible for Trump’s 2016 victory?”
If I had to guess… busy shifting the narrative of “Russian interference” to one of “Massive election fraud”. Why would they care who occupies the oval office if the country is so busy trying to straighten it’s own house that it’s no longer a significant player on the World stage? Race war, civil war, secessions… whatever it takes to busy the U.S. inside it’s own borders is what I’d imagine they’re working diligently to foster.
2016 could’ve been perceived as an anomaly… something the country could have moved beyond. The fact that Trump lost 2020, but was still supported by a record number of voters (surpassed only by Biden) has created a significant rift in our society. I believe a Biden victory that’s perceived as illegitimate by a full third of Americans is perhaps the best outcome for foreign powers looking to gain greater global influence.
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“Why would they care who occupies the oval office if the country is so busy trying to straighten it’s own house that it’s no longer a significant player on the World stage? Race war, civil war, secessions… whatever it takes to busy the U.S. inside it’s own borders is what I’d imagine they’re working diligently to foster.”
Very imaginative. The Russians weren’t able to hold the USSR together and have all kinds of trouble with places like Ukraine and they are geniuses able to cause “Race war, civil war, secessions… whatever it takes to busy the U.S. inside it’s own borders…” in the US?
Didn’t “Race war, civil war, secessions…” in the USA preexist the modern Russian state? What I’m asking is, given that Trump already has half of the populace why weren’t the Russians able to help him get a few measly votes in the right states?
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I’m not saying the entire things is being orchestrated by them. I’m simply saying that I think the current outcome benefits their interests more than Trump being re-elected. If lowly me could be imaginative enough to conceive of it, one has to think professionals could too. So, I guess I’m just disagreeing with your premise that re-electing Trump has to be the goal in order for their to be Russian propaganda and influence involved in our election process. In 2016, that was their best play and it got “the Dems” all up in arms pointing fingers at them. In 2020, that target has shifted to Trump himself and the other half of the electorate has lost faith in democracy itself. Seems like a win for them. Unless you believe the United States is more stable and cohesive than it was before… in which case, I got nuthin’
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“Didn’t “Race war, civil war, secessions…” in the USA preexist the modern Russian state? ”
Of course… that’s what makes those divides so simple to exploit. Again, maybe my viewpoint is overly simplistic but, divide and conquer seems like it’s been a viable strategy for weakening nations for a while now.
“What I’m asking is, given that Trump already has half of the populace why weren’t the Russians able to help him get a few measly votes in the right states?”
That’s the other thing. If you want to believe that in order for it to be true that Russia worked toward Trump in 2016, they must also have worked toward Trump in 2020… Why is it a given that he had half the populace? Perhaps he had 1/3 the populace (what was commonly called ‘his base’), and outside propaganda helped whip up anti-leftist sentiment enough to give him a real shot.
Anyway, I do firmly believe that our current states of chaos serve to benefit other global “superpowers” more than us. I guess I give those other countries enough benefit of the doubt to assume they’d do everything they could to accelerate our spiral for the benefit of their people. At the end of the day, it doesn’t really matter. If we’re too stupid to know the difference between fact and propaganda, I suppose destabilization is inevitable regardless of who works to facilitate it.
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“Why is it a given that he had half the populace?”
Result of 2020 presidential election: 51.3% 81,283,098 for Biden and 46.8% 74,222,958 for Trump. 3.2% more for Trump would have given him 50% of the vote, whereas a third is 13.47% less votes than he actually got, so claiming he got 50% of the populace is, in my opinion, closer to the truth. Taking in account the fact that his administration was a disaster, along with the unanimity of negative press from the ‘respectable’ media his result is remarkable. I don’t see any evidence that Russia or China are interested in destabilizing the US. Seems to me that they are interested in keeping the US out of their internal affairs.They are interested in maintaining the balance of power, not destabilizing it.
The following link is from a Russian official indicating how they see the world, read it and let me know how his worldview coheres with your claim they are trying to destabilize the US. (https://eng.globalaffairs.ru/articles/a-new-world-order-a-view-from-russia/)
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@gro jo
Yes, he got half the populace. The only point I was trying to make there was that it wasn’t a given that he had the support of half the populace leading up to the elections. I was simply trying to illustrate that the fact he received just under half the vote despite enjoying enthusiastic support of only 1/3 the populace could have been the result of propaganda campaigns leading up to the election itself. Neither of us knows, so I’m not asserting it, simply allowing for it.
The article you linked is a lot. However, while I probably should have used wording like “reduction of US influence” or “softening” instead of “destabilizing”, I guess your article reinforces my broader point that an America looking inward is more beneficial to other super powers than an America looking outward. It’s also undeniable that we’re more focused inward now than we were in 2015 and arguably even moreso than we were prior to November 2020. So, again, you and I don’t know. We can absolutely disagree on whether it was influenced by or a happy coincidence for Russia and China.
You had asked where the Russians were from 2016…. I gave you a plausible theory. Perhaps it’s just as plausible that they do not exist (as you seem to want to believe). That just seems naive to me. I struggle to envision a world were countries aren’t exerting influence over each other. Would be nice though.
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I haven’t seen anything that I consider convincing as far as “The Russians” or anybody else throwing the election Trump’s way in 2016. Most of the people convicted were for “lying” to the FBI or such nonsense. US elections have always been exercises in skullduggery from the start.
I don’t share your view on US interventions in other lands. The US is not a force for good in the world as your comments imply. The days of the US being top dog are coming to an end, I don’t have a problem with that.
The US intervened in the Russian civil war, the Chinese civil war, the Vietnamese civil war and the Korean civil war. It failed each time to get the desired outcome.
The US has declared economic war against the PRC, is sanctioning Russia, etc.
They are bound to fight back, Russia has done so by investing in hypersonic missiles and other nuclear armaments, China by opening its market to Europe to undermine US economic blockade. Everybody agrees that war is to be avoided, can they? I don’t know.
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It’s not just the Chinese and Russian governments interfering in US politics, there’s a long tradition of foreign allies of the US doing the same. (https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/notes-indicate-nixon-interfered-1968-peace-talks-180961627/)
The Hunter Biden scandal may be a Republican, Falun Gong plot similar to the Nixon-Anna Chennault 1968 plot as I pointed out in the following comments:
gro jo
According to The Global Times, my favorite CPC mouthpiece, the trial of HK billionaire Jimmy Lai could shed light on the origin of this scandal, assuming, of course, that it is held in open court. To avoid violating Abagond’s 500 words quote limit I reduced the article to 488 words.
“Lai may ‘expose scandal of serving Trump admin in 2020 election’ with media empire: analysts
By Yang Sheng Source: Global Times Published: 2020/12/13 19:58:11
US Vice President Mike Pence and Secretary of State Mike Pompeo voiced their support on Twitter to Jimmy Lai Chee-ying, a media tycoon and instigator of Hong Kong riots with collusion with the US, who has been charged with “colluding with foreign forces to endanger national security.”
Experts said on Sunday that this proves that senior officials in the Trump administration are trying their best at the last moment in office to harm China-US relations and maximize the difficulties for the new Democratic administration on fixing ties.
Officials in President Donald Trump’s administration are also worrying that Lai could expose some scandals that might indicate that the Trump administration was using his media empire to affect the 2020 US election, analysts said…
The police will examine more than 1,000 messages and related videos of Lai’s social media accounts…
Lü Xiang, a research fellow on US studies at the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, told the Global Times on Sunday that Pence’s and Pompeo’s tweets once again proved that the US had deep collusion with instigators of the Hong Kong turmoil in 2019 like Lai, and they are very disappointed that their support for these troublemakers turned out to be a total failure.
“Lai is a high-value asset to the CIA in Hong Kong, as he has received support from the US since the 1990s to challenge the People’s Republic of China in Hong Kong” and due to Lai being denied bail by the court, “this could mean that the court and the police might have hard evidence that could charge Lai with a serious violation of the law.”
A Beijing-based n expert who asked for anonymity said that normally, bail for suspects in Hong Kong won’t be denied, so this time, according to the national security law for Hong Kong, Lai could be charged with serious crimes.
“The reason why US officials are so nervous and panic-stricken is that Lai is not a normal pawn on their chessboard, but a media tycoon who has deep cooperation with the Trump administration and he knows many significant secrets,” he said.
Apart from interrupting public order, instigating violence to challenge the government and endangering national security, Lai also used his media empire to create misinformation to support the Trump administration and smear Joe Biden and his family members to meddle in the US election.
NBC reported in October that the Apple Daily, owned by Lai, had commissioned a 64-page intelligence report to smear Biden, which “exposed the ties” of Hunter Biden to Ukraine and China.
The report said that one of the people who posted the document is Christopher Balding, a former professor at Fulbright University Vietnam in Hanoi, who blogs about China. Balding admitted that he had been commissioned by Apple Daily to fabricate the document.”
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on Sun Dec 13th 2020 at 22:35:12
gro jo
(https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/security/how-fake-persona-laid-groundwork-hunter-biden-conspiracy-deluge-n1245387).
The above is the NBC article referred to above.
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on Sun Dec 13th 2020 at 22:49:48
gro jo
Fascinating how Trump, his friends and Falun Gong, “an evil cult” according to the CPC are so cozy. Maybe Mueller should have investigated them instead of the Russians.
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@gro jo
“The US is not a force for good in the world as your comments imply. ”
That comment wasn’t addressed to me specifically but, were you assigning an opinion to me, one that I had not expressed in any of my writings, and then posting a lengthy rebuttal to that opinion? If so, isn’t that a straw man argument or something?
“I haven’t seen anything that I consider convincing as far as “The Russians” or anybody else throwing the election Trump’s way in 2016.”
As far as actual tampering with vote counts and such? Yeah, me neither… in 2016 nor 2020. As far as inventing and propagating dis-information and access to emails, emails ad more emails? Again, we can agree to disagree but, I’d find other countries negligent if they weren’t stirring the pot to the benefit of their own citizens… After all, isn’t part of your point above that a reduced US influence abroad would be better for those countries?
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“The article you linked is a lot. However, while I probably should have used wording like “reduction of US influence” or “softening” instead of “destabilizing”, I guess your article reinforces my broader point that an America looking inward is more beneficial to other super powers than an America looking outward.”
The above quote implies that an inward looking US is a bad thing, I responded the way I did not to make a straw man argument but to list the damage the US did to the world and itself. If I’m misreading you I’d like you to expand on that statement.
US influence is going to diminish for the simple fact that China is rising and Europe no longer trusts the US to look out for it.
“As far as inventing and propagating dis-information and access to emails, emails ad more emails? Again, we can agree to disagree but, I’d find other countries negligent if they weren’t stirring the pot to the benefit of their own citizens… After all, isn’t part of your point above that a reduced US influence abroad would be better for those countries?”
According to you, emails and whatnot were able to sway millions to vote for Trump? How can one measure such claim? I don’t buy it. The fact is that a substantial number of Americans have come to the conclusion that the people in charge don’t have their best interests at heart,so why not go with a demagogue?
Regrettable as that may be, they have a point. An outward looking US has been a disaster with all the interventions I cited above. The joke on them is that the very people they were raised to fear and fight ended up being the ones their jobs were exported to in the name of making a profit. China went from being the red menace to being the measure they were obliged to conform to. “The China price” became the mantra of every boss wishing to sweat his employees. Why wouldn’t someone claiming to stand up to China look good in the eyes of millions in the de-industrialized wastelands of the USA?
You are silent on the possible collusion between Falun Gong and Trump’s friends in the Hunter Biden scandal, why? As I’ve indicated with the Nixon-Chennault sabotage of the 1968 peace talks the Republicans have a history of colluding with extreme foreign entities to sway elections.
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@gro jo
“”The above quote implies that an inward looking US is a bad thing,”
No, it implies the opposite from the perspective of those other countries. It was clear in my head as I wrote the comment you referred to: “…that an America looking inward is more beneficial to other super powers than an America looking outward.”
You then went on to cite myriad ways an outward looking US was bad. OK. Does that dispute that an inward looking US is beneficial to those same countries? That was my whole point, why wouldn’t other super powers work toward causing the US to look inward instead of outward? It just seems silly to think they wouldn’t… almost irresponsible of them actually.
But, at the end of the day, as I’ve said before, It’s cool that you have a different opinion because neither of us knows and we’re both just hypothesizing about motives and cause. Likely, the only thing we can agree on is the effect.
eg “…and Europe no longer trusts the US to look out for it.” that’s an effect we agree on. is the cause Trumpism? Who benefits from that besides Trump himself? Did he alone manifest all manner of media that convinced the electorate to switch him from joke to savior? … and yes, I literally watched people I know make that very transition as they became disconnected from facts and bought into dis-information.
“You are silent on the possible collusion between Falun Gong and Trump’s friends in the Hunter Biden scandal, why?” Honestly? Because acknowledging that the Republicans, and Trump specifically, had motive in getting Trump elected seemed like a given. I’ve never assigned 100% responsibility to anyone other than the US electorate. It is truly sad how ignorant we can be and how prone to manipulation we are. But, I also think it’s naive to think… nevermind… I’ve already said it enough. You do you man.
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” That was my whole point, why wouldn’t other super powers work toward causing the US to look inward instead of outward? It just seems silly to think they wouldn’t… almost irresponsible of them actually…is the cause Trumpism? Who benefits from that besides Trump himself? Did he alone manifest all manner of media that convinced the electorate to switch him from joke to savior? … and yes, I literally watched people I know make that very transition as they became disconnected from facts and bought into dis-information.”
I don’t see the need for an external cause for the switch you describe, the dreary history of failed interventions leaving swathes of the public wondering what they get out of it is sufficient, I think, to make them turn to a figure like Trump.
“Honestly? Because acknowledging that the Republicans, and Trump specifically, had motive in getting Trump elected seemed like a given. I’ve never assigned 100% responsibility to anyone other than the US electorate. It is truly sad how ignorant we can be and how prone to manipulation we are. But, I also think it’s naive to think… nevermind… I’ve already said it enough. You do you man.”
You do you too. You missed the point I was trying to make, if the Chinese are right, the H. Biden caper is a form of treason like the Nixon-Chennault one was back in 1968. The whole thing will be swept under the the rug just like it.
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