Dr Frances Cress Welsing (1935-2016), a Black American psychiatrist, used her psychiatric training and experience to understand racism (White supremacy). She built on the ideas of Carl Jung and Neely Fuller. In 1970 she came out with “The Cress Theory of Color-Confrontation and Racism (White Supremacy)”. That was later expanded into a book, “The Isis Papers” (1991). She passed away yesterday morning, January 2nd.
She grew up in Chicago. Her mother was a teacher, her father and grandfather were doctors. She went to Antioch College and Howard University College of Medicine. She worked most of her life as a psychiatrist in metropolitan Washington, DC, working especially with emotionally troubled schoolchildren.
Just as Frantz Fanon kept coming up against the effects of colonialism in his patients, so she kept coming up against White racism in hers:
“I knew I had to understand racism to help solve the mental health problems of black people.”
At a Black Power meeting she met Neely Fuller, Jr. He had no MD or PhD, he was a guard, but his ideas were profound. For example, he did not even see White people as a biological race, a fact of nature, but as an organization.
But he was mainly interested in the what and how. As a doctor, she needed to know the why, the cause, to be able to fight it.
One day washing dishes it came to her: deep down the thing that drives the behaviour of people who see themselves as White is the fear of genetic annihilation, whether through race war or race mixing.
Whites base their idea of who they are on something they lack. In this case it is melanin. It could just have easily been, say, foot size.
That means anyone who has that something they lack – melanin – is a threat. Those who have more of it are more of a threat. Public Enemy, with her ideas in mind, called it Fear of a Black Planet.
It is why Whites:
- Have such a strange hang-up about Black men’s penises. That is not normal.
- Have such an overblown fear of Black men and, to a lesser degree, of Jews and Muslims.
- Love guns – “the great equalizer”, they call it. Subconsciously what they mean, whether they know it or not, is that it is an equalizer against the Black penis. What do guns look like?
- Have to put so many roadblocks in the way of Blacks.
- Have to put down Blacks to feel good about themselves.
- Look down on darker-skinned people and yet lie in the sun to get darker!
Deep down Whites envy Blacks.
No appeal to morals or even reason is going to work, is going to affect their racism deep down, so long as they see themselves as White.
Greg Carr, head of Afro-American Studies at Howard:
“The fact that she was largely unknown and/or caricatured when discussed at all in white public discourse reflects the tremendous gap that continues between black and white public spheres.”
Rest in peace.
– Abagond, 2016.
Sources: Mainly “The Isis Papers” (1991), Donahue (1992), Tony Brown’s Journal (1973, 1994), NPR (2016).
See also:
- The Isis Papers
- melanin
- Frantz Fanon
- Black Power
- Black Brute stereotype
- cultural appropriation
- Islamophobia
- Hitler: Race and People
- Black people according to Thomas Jefferson
541
Dr. Welsing will be sorely missed for her landmark research in the dynamics of race and for who she was as a person; may her great soul RIP +++ amen.
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I actually spoke to Dr Frances Cress Welsing by asking her a question on “The C.O.W.S” radio show, Hosted by Gus. It was an honor to have spoken to her for only a few minutes.
Power to the people——> o/
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Have such a strange hang-up about Black men’s penises. That is not normal.
What happens when a white woman has a child with a black man and that child has a child with another black person?
Keep that up and sooner or later, the white part of the equation will be completely bred out.
In short, the black penis equals white erasure. At least that’s what I’ve taken away from all this.
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yeah alright how tall are you gtfo
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the point is all of us that is above will agree i am sure is dont let none of that ish hold you back is all
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yeah i amnot a real fan of wesling it is fixation i think as well
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Well, this is most certainly an interesting post, and an interesting blog that I have stumbled across as well. I shall peruse it further for a bit, I think. However, I have a question about this post in particular: what do you mean by *Whites?*
You can’t possibly mean every single person whose skin color is paler than a certain shade, or every person of European descent. I’m sure you don’t even mean every American person who would be classified as Caucasian. After all, just using two of the most concrete examples given in your post, I (primarily a mix of German and Celtic blood) do *not* “love guns” – I can’t stand them, and wish they didn’t exist at all – and I don’t tan. In fact, I wouldn’t particularly mind everyone being the same/a similar race (what you describe as “genetic annihilation” – keep in mind that the children of a white person and a black person would be just as much “white” as “black,” though), although I’d hope all the diverse cultures of the world and their lore and traditions would be preserved during such a process. I think the faction you’re referring to is a much smaller group of individual white supremacists. Could you define that a bit more?
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I mean all respect and rip she could write
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@ Snowsong @ Lord of Mirkwood
She is not talking about the literal, conscious thoughts of every single white-skinned person. I do not think a fair reading of the post supports that conclusion. She is talking IN GENERAL about people who see themselves as White and what that leads to, much of it at a subconscious level. Remember, she is a psychiatrist, not a historian. Her ideas stand or fall based not on what White people SAY they believe but on how much it makes sense of their behaviour as a whole.
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@ Snowsong @ Lord of Mirkwood
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R.I.P. Ms. Welsing! I read her book “The Isis Papers” almost twenty years ago. The information contained therein had me damn near hypnotized. I couldn’t put the book down. Even today, no one has successfully debunked or defeated her well grounded theories regarding the deep seated and demonic origins of racism.
May her soul now rest and may Yahawa (God) keep her!
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@v8driver said: “yeah i am not a real fan of wesling it is fixation i think as well.”
Judging from Ms. Welsing’s theories alone, it’s abundantly clear that she wasn’t a fan of you either.
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Ms. Welsing wrote what she wrote and theorized what she theorized after much reflection and research, I’m quite certain. It makes me shudder in awe when some people attempt to shift or reduce her compendium of study and research, as it pertains to racism theories to mean something other than what she bespoke of, or that she was speaking to only small segment of people.
Get the EFF outta here with your smugness, it is what it is!
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@ Kiwi
Touche!
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@ Lord of Mirkwood
As far as I know she did not hate Irish Catholics. She was just trying to understand their racism.
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When it comes to white people, they are never able or want too, differentiate between a black people or person of color, pointing out and or condemning racism, coming from a white person or white people.
White people call black people who point out and speak out against racism, “racists” and “hateful”.
Lord of Mirkwood:
“But if people take “white” to mean “must be racist,” then no, I am not “white.” The trouble is, I don’t think Frances Cress Welsing excluded Irish Catholics from her hate.”
This is being willfully obtuse, correlating a known psychiatrist that studied and taught about the thought process in whites, regarding white supremacy and racism.
To white people, this equates to racism and hate, not a white cop, killing an unarmed black man, because he’s afraid of said black man and doesn’t care if he lives or dies.
So at the end of the day, if a black person points out racist acts that a white person has done, in the mind of a white person, that black person is racist but they are not, even if they are not the white person the black person is referring too!
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Say what you will, but I do feel there is some truth to what she says. White fear has lead to a lot of effort put in place to hold back people of other races. Much of which is self preservation. If you ever read the bs of a hardcore racist then they all but spell this out.
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Ancestor Frances Cress Welsing’s enlightened book ‘The Isis Paper’ and her numerous lectures have helped me understand the system of racism/white supremacy and racial symbolism more than ever. Rest in Power, Queen Mother.
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How exactly did she divide Whites from People of Color? I mean, did she consider the minority populations of North Africa and Central Asia, who are also light skinned, to be White as well?
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Kiwi
I agree that black men’s penises are not the only hang ups that white men have. Biff use to regular fixate on the idea of yours and the idea that it is smaller. I never understood why. So it would be nice for some depth into why white men fixate on such things and the reason for each group.
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Thank you for fostering exchanges on the pervasive psychosocial dementia of racism. Cress Welsing was a pioneer. Her contribution is valuable.
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I will miss this dear Queen. There was no one like her.
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Kiwi:
“A lot of what Welsing said does seem weird, but I’m still curious about what she had to say because it’s not just Black men’s penises that many White people seem to have a hang-up about, but also Asian men’s penises.”
I am going to guess, that the reason why white men are so interested in Asian penises, along with black men’s is because there has been a stereotype of Asian men, having small penises and black men’s having large penises.
which is why they always point to Asian men as to get the attention off themselves as it has also been said of them, that they have very small penises, especially compared to black men’s penises.
So it has more to do with white men, feeling sexual inadequate about their neither regions, more than anything else. -_-
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@ Kiwi
In the case of Asian penises, they have produced 60% of the global population, as apposed to European penises producing only 11.4% of the global population. Maybe that is the reason for the White anger against Asian penises?
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@King
I was not aware of that and it may actually explain the hang up.
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@King said: “In the case of Asian penises, they have produced 60% of the global population, as apposed to European penises producing only 11.4% of the global population. Maybe that is the reason for the White anger against Asian penises?”
The size of a country’s population does not determine nor correlate to the size of the overall size of the men’s penis. What correlate with a nation’s population is the overall libido, intensity and frequency of sex that the men and women of that country engage in. As we all know, sometimes the man with the biggest penis could either be sterile or experiencing some sort of erectile dysfunction. And on the other hand, the man with the pencil size penis could be quite potent and an equally insatiable, sex drive.
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I find it fascinating that the commenters who openly identify as European descent (Snowsong, LOM and Benjamin) all had the same deflective response. They all threw up the smokescreen query of “define White…”, “what is White…? or LOM’s stock response of, “I’m not White…”.
There is no attempt to make a coherent argument for or against Dr. Welsing’s ideas and body of work, just an elementary school child’s attempt to not have her ideas stick to them.
Yet, on a daily basis, as these commenters (and the lurkers they represent) go to work, school, restaurants, banks or drive through the countryside, they are very much aware of who is considered White and who is not. They know for a fact, that they are White and that they enjoy White Privilege.
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@blakksage
A lot of times, those smaller sized men are superior lovers.
Or as the old saying goes,”it’s not the meat, but the motion of the ocean”!!!
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RIP Dr. Frances Cress Welsing.
“Have such a strange hang-up about Black men’s penises. That is not normal.”
I think that can be traced back to Christianity. Once Rome became Christian the first thing they did was chisel off all the penis’s from Roman statues.
If you look at other cultures, other then the Abrahamic religions, you’ll see that sex wasn’t a taboo but was sometimes celebrated or used spiritually in a tantric way.
I think combining sexual inferiority/anxiety with a savior/we are Gods chosen people complex created the last 500 years of oppression for POC.
It creates violence and led to venereal disease being spread into the colonies around the world. Sailors banging infected livestock on the boat and then raping indigenous people spread V.D. everywhere. Yet most Eurocentric historians blame the “Indians” for infecting white people with V.D.
“Love guns – “the great equalizer”, they call it. Subconsciously what they mean, whether they know it or not, is that it is an equalizer against the Black penis. What do guns look like?”
I love guns and think everyone should own one. The first gun control laws were passed after the civil war to keep Blacks from owning guns. It’s my opinion that calls for gun control today are rooted in the same fear of POC legally owning guns. This liberal hand wringing is just a deflection of the greater fear of a “Black planet”.
“At a Black Power meeting she met Neely Fuller, Jr. He had no MD or PhD, he was a guard, but his ideas were profound. For example, he did not even see White people as a biological race, a fact of nature, but as an organization.”
I agree with that statement. Its like belonging to the mob. You can’t leave the organization and it has a monopoly on violence.
“deep down the thing that drives the behavior of people who see themselves as White is the fear of genetic annihilation, whether through race war or race mixing.”
I think there’s some truth to that but I don’t think it’s primary but rather a part of the many factors that what make up white racial supremacy.
“Love guns – “the great equalizer”.
I think the Black community as a whole is uncomfortable with gun ownership in part because white Christianity drummed into their Black slaves that a good person “obeyed laws” and submitted to authority. White suprememcy was about brain washing an entire race to submit to white authority. Think about the songs you were brought up on. “Trust and obey, for theirs no other way …” ect.
The other part is internalized racism which is then at odds with the internalized supremacy of whites when it come to the right of self defense.
This plays out in Hollywood too. Armed Black men are never portrayed as “law abiding” citizens unless they are police officers. Only white alpha males are the saviors, the ones who break the laws to “save” others.
You see this in the Wire. You see it in The Walking Dead with Morgan not liking guns and Sasha, the expert marksman, who succumbs to severe PTSD. I haven’t seen the new Star Wars but from what I have read on this blog it seems the lead Black actor is a kind of beta male. If he was a white male he would be an alpha and blowing things up right and left. The message that gets bombarded for Blacks is that guns are “dangerous” and that if Blacks use them they will become “damaged” like Sasha in The Walking Dead. So they better stay away, know their place, and let white people have them.
The Black Panthers, and groups like them, correctly understand that Black individuals as well as communities have a right to defend and protect their own interests.
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Here she is on the Dr. Phil Show.
The uneducated audience laughs in the beginning in the same way people of old would laugh when they were first told the world was round.
(youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iquXlgRGX7I)
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[…] Sourced through Scoop.it from: abagond.wordpress.com […]
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Pumpkin said:
“They think that they can degrade Black women and put white women on a pedestal to get ahead.”
I don’t think Black men dating outside their race do so to deliberately degrade Black women.
I think upward mobility allows them more opportunities and some Black men choose to date white women. Their might be a class component to this, I’m not sure. Part of it is that white supremacy in society has elevated white women as the standard of beauty by which all things are judged.
Before I met my wife I had a color blind sense of beauty. Their were other characteristics other then race that I found attractive. But that has changed and today my preference is Black because my wife has become the standard of beauty by which I judge other women by now. A “beautiful” white women can walk by and I don’t even notice. A Black women walks by and my eyes instinctively follow.
Also understand that me being white gives me a special kind of privilege to date whoever I wanted regardless if I am rich or poor. That same opportunity isn’t always available to POC unless they have financial means, education ect. to move upward within the white racial hierarchy.
I met my wife on a dating site. My primary requirement was that the women I date live within ten miles of me. In L.A. I didn’t want to spend 45 minutes driving across town to meet somebody when I’m literally surround by a million people. I’m also easy on the eyes, am quite comfortable around women, can make them laugh, so getting a date was never an issue.
My wife only dated me out of default. She is a Black professional women but found that none of the Black professional men she “winked” at responded. She thinks they were too busy dating white women.
I’m not comfortable about making assumptions about the decisions that other Black men make in regards to who they date. That’s territory I don’t want to speculate about.
That said were temporarily staying In Pasadena which is a diverse city. The building I’m in has mostly Black families and the rent here is pricy meaning you’d have to be making more then 100,000 a year to afford to stay here. So though interracial couples are common here L.A. their are way more intact middle to upper class Black families that live here. It’s just that nobody speaks about it in the media and Hollywood is to busy pushing stereo types. They are the silent and maybe ignored majority.
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Well that too long enough. Good riddance to Dr. Welsing. We have enough crazy black people polluting the airwaves as is. Perhaps the cousins get back to sense now.
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@ Michael Jon Barker
I totally agree with your comment. I’m a resident of L.A. County too and, yes, interracial couples (Black male/White female, Black male/Brown Latina, White male/Asian female, etc.) are common in Pasadena, Altadena, and other cities in L.A. County.
Hollywood and mainstream media portrayal of Black neighbors are based mostly on stereotypes – like housing projects and inner-city ghettos seen on Good Times and Sanford and Son. In L.A. County, housing projects are located in Black, White, Brown Latino, Polynesian and Asian communities. The housing projects in Watts (i.e., Nickerson Gardens, Jordan Downs, Imperial Courts, Hacienda Village, and Avalon Gardens) are no longer predominantly Black, they’re predominantly Brown Latino. The housing projects in Harbor City no longer exist (they were predominantly White). The housing projects in Lomita are mostly White and Brown Latino. The housing projects in Rolling Hills are 98 percent White. Most Black neighborhoods in L.A. are far from being ghettos. In L.A. County, only about 25 percent of Blacks live ghettos. Most Blacks in L.A.. County reside in middle-class or upper-middle class cities/districts like Athens on the Hill, West Athens, North Gardena, West Compton, Gramercy Park, Hyde Park-Over Hills, Westmount, Ladera Heights, Leimert Park, View Park-Windsor Hills (my district), Baldwin Hills Estates (not be confused with Baldwin Hills Village/so-called Jungles), etc. Ladera Heights, View Park-Windsor Hills, and Baldwin Hills Estates are three of the RICHEST Black cities/districts in America. In terms of the architecture of the houses and their landscapes, many Black middle-class neighborhoods rival with White upper-middle class neighborhoods in L.A. County. The truth hurts.
Check out my little beautiful princess. Here are 3 short videos of my 2-year-old daughter (Makeda Cooper) taking a stroll (with her baby doll) in her quite, Black upper-middle class neighborhood:
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FModMZKmYFo)
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v-CbhdKYmewQA)
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXogQVmjFC4)
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@ Michael Jon Barker,
While doubting the relevance of this to the post, I’m going to reply anyway. I know from experience that many ‘black’ men do date ‘white’ or others specifically because they hate ‘black’ women.
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Btw Abagond, what was her cause of death?
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@ Michael Jon Barker
I think you’re on to something. That could explain the passivity I see in so many black people in light of recent extrajudicial killings by police and other whites. With the vast majority of our truly rebellious elements neutralized over the decades, we’re more apt to fall into a state of learned helplessness, which explains why we patiently wait for a justice system to do what it was clearly not designed to do – deliver a modicium of justice for us and ours.
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obviously this one hit a nerve like? out of the hours and hours and hours of youtube videos fuller fanon muhammed etc etc at stone store i think she really got under my skin more than anyone its just something about her
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i think dr. umar johnson is a close runner up
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@Pumpkin: This is The Phil Donahue Show not Dr. Phil.
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Media guide: Google hits for “Frances Cress Welsing” (27 hours after
her death):
6,940 The Root
5,970 News One
1,050 Tumblr
786 Chicago Defender
774 Twitter
136 Jet magazine
97 Atlanta Blackstar
25 Bossip
21 Mic
18 Chicago Tribune
17 Washington Post
15 Clutch Magazine
14 The Grio
8 LA Times
4 Fox News, New York Amsterdam News
3 The Real News
2 CNN, Ebony, Huffington Post, New York Times, The Independent, Daily Kos
1 New York Daily News, The Nation, National Review, Slate
0 BET, The Economist, The Guardian, BBC, Al Jazeera, MSNBC, Daily Mail, Raw Story, New Yorker, The Atlantic, Harper’s, Democracy Now, Mother Jones, ZNet, The Young Turks, Salon, Wall Street Journal, Vice, Vox, Buzzfeed, Truth Out, Jezebel, Drudge Report, Breitbart
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@ 1tawnystranger
From what I read, it was a stroke.
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The “race as a system” thing was certainly insightful and interesting, a real step forward in understanding, but, without spending a lot of energy speaking ill of the dead, my impression is that like lots of folks with backgrounds in psychiatry she was hung up on sex: the thing about WM giving WW chocolates on Valentines Day for the vicarious thrill of watching her put “brown nuts” into her mouth, or playing golf as a way of whacking their own white balls by proxy in an act of self-loathing. And let’s not even start talking about her homophobia.
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(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQ6ynzZPl0A&list=TLsHs3eRQCyS8wNTAxMjAxNg)
Excellent critique of naysayers!
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“It is why Whites:
Have such a strange hang-up about Black men’s penises. That is not normal.
Have such an overblown fear of Black men and, to a lesser degree, of Jews and Muslims.
Love guns – “the great equalizer”, they call it. Subconsciously what they mean, whether they know it or not, is that it is an equalizer against the Black penis. What do guns look like?
Have to put so many roadblocks in the way of Blacks.
Have to put down Blacks to feel good about themselves.
Look down on darker-skinned people and yet lie in the sun to get darker!
Deep down Whites envy Blacks.”
Abagond, when have you taken up comedy? This is pretty funny, when, in fact, whites spend little time thinking about blacks at all and fall back on stereotypes on the few occasions they are forced to. How many patients has her hypothesis helped cure?
“At a Black Power meeting she met Neely Fuller, Jr. He had no MD or PhD, he was a guard, but his ideas were profound.”
Really? Based on this video that purports to represent his ideas, I find your claim unconvincing. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQPaUKx1fJs)
Maybe you should do a post on him outlining what’s “deep” about his thought.
His claim, as far as I can see, is that Blacks have no agency, we are the product of the Whites. I reject that claim based on the history of the Black race. If Fuller is right, why bother struggle?
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Great post, and I did not know she passed (no surprise) until I read it.
I hope you will (one day in the distant future) do a follow-up post to highlight her assessment of and recommendations to black people.
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@Abagond: Ah, thank you for the link! ^-^ I do tend to assume that “Whites” means “all whites,” since whites are being spoken of as a general group. Really what I worry about is what I would call “factionism:” it does make me uncomfortable (understandably, I hope) when anyone makes a very general (often negative) statement about any group that I am factually a part of, whether it be based on race, gender, age, or whatever other category, without ever seeming to acknowledge that there are exceptions (whether they are aware of those exceptions within their own mind or not). The more one gets in the habit of using umbrella terms, the easier it is to slip into the “us vs. them” mentality, which is a major affliction in our political sphere (how often I hear someone say “Republicans don’t” or “Democrats always” alarms me), but has historically been even more severe in racial interactions. Generalizing “blacks” has caused the formation of many a harmful stereotype, and generalizing “whites” could have similar consequences; these only widen the rift between each “side.” (It’s possible that you’ve addressed the difference between “Whites” in this context and “everyone who is white” elsewhere on this site, but I am a newcomer, I’m afraid, and haven’t had much time to sift through the blog.) Also, even defining the group Ms. Welsing describes as “people who see themselves as white” can be a little perplexing: after all, I’m certainly not any other race, and saying “I’m not white” would be a lie. I’m European; it’s a fact. \(‘-‘)/ On the other hand, I purposefully avoid being part of the group that takes pride in their race and considers it superior to any other. They are the factionists who are the greatest obstacle to racial equality. I am aware of the racism that permeates our society (although I rarely see it firsthand), and I *really* don’t want to be a part of it. (That’s part of the reason I continue to read through this blog; it’s very educational, and you’ve done a great job with it, by the way!)
@Afrofem: At least in a strictly factual sense, I am “white,” as it is defined by lineage. There’s no denying that. And I am well aware of the privileges that I have in comparison to many individuals of other races. I just don’t like being lumped into a group with the KKK and the Nazis when I’ve always actively tried to avoid acting or thinking in a racist way. I wasn’t at all attempting to devalue Frances Welsing’s ideas or research: in fact, I quite admire the work that she did and wish she were more widely acknowledged. 🙂 But I don’t have to pretend I’m a different race (or that I have no race at all) to avoid being considered part of the problem, do I?
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Kiwi
I stopped taking that clown seriously on the white liberal thread. If that was not his white when convenient stance is hilarious.
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Kiwi
I have worse words for him, but they would not make it past moderation.
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Kiwi said,
“I have data showing that White male/Black female marriages are more common than Black male/White female marriages in Brazil, Cuba, and South Africa.”
Why do you think that is ? I know statistically wm/bw relationships are the least common in the U.S. though in L.A. you see a wide variety of interracial relationships so it seems normal here.
My wife, before she met me, traveled quite a bit and went to Brazil twice, because she thought that Black Brazilian men were “the most handsome men in the world”.
She also experienced some profiling by the police, once when she was taking a cab and the police pulled the cab over to make sure it was a legit fare. Apparently in the town she was in Blacks don’t take cabs so the police thought something wasn’t right. Another time she couldn’t get her clothes out of the cleaners and that entailed having the ‘white’ owner come to the store to release them to her because the workers their didn’t believe that they were her clothes.
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Dr Welsing was not afraid to speak truth to power. She loved black people and wanted to free our minds. White supremacy is the Matrix…she was our Oracle. I salute you Queen Mother. I love you. ❤
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@Pumpkin
“Dr. Francis Cress Welsing should have been more notable than she was. Some people haven’t heard of her, but her work has been very influential. If she had been a Black male, she would have had more followers and been more renowned.”
The white media doesn’t want us to know about women like her. She loved black people and didn’t apologize for it. If you wont compromise your beliefs then the media will do whatever they can to marginalize you. But I don’t think it was solely because she was a woman. It’s because of her pro-Black,Afrocentric belief system. Many black people have never heard the name Amos Wilson. Even though he was one of the greatest black minds to ever live. The media never talks about his book The Blueprint for Black Power.
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“Whites really do have a strange hang-up about Black men and Asian men’s penises.”
As a kid I remember being around a bunch of WW2 Navy vets and their conversation turned to Black men’s penises. In thinking about it today it seems to me that their racism was directed at the Black mans penises. lol The idea that Blacks were better endowed really bothered them so they went about degrading an entire race.
Whites seem to me to also have a snake fascination. When I was in my early 20’s I had a five foot Boa named Satan. Maybe theirs something their too.
When I was in the Army I was stationed in the South. I was at a bar and a Black man came in. Somebody from behind the bar came out with a snake and chased him out. This was in the late 1980’s. It was the first time I had seen anything like that. I also noticed the police always harassed Black soldiers but left the white ones alone.
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Me and Gro Jo agree on something? Idon’t believe this!
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Kiwi is right: White male/Colored female relationships, marriages and offspring are more common in most countries in the Southern Hemisphere.
I think the reason is quite straightforward. Europeans conquered most of those spaces and females there were taken as spoils of war and conquest, so to speak.
If you ask me, this is the natural order of things. Probably it was always so, with different human groups that interacted similarly in the past from time immemorial.
Preoccupation with the continuation and/or purity of race is what prompts White populations later to take internal measures to control the outward activity of their males in order to he protect the White family. Hence Apartheid in South Africa and the different forms of American racism throughout the times after the end of slavery. This reduces severely the White male/colored female pairings.
On the other side, discrepancies in the demographics, more specifically, White populations which were smaller than colored populations in some places (Brazil or Mexico after the end of slavery, for example), make it necessary that White male/colored female relationship continue to help the re-creation of the mixed race strata which function as a buffer between the White dominant but minority group and the colored majority.
Feminism and the general liberation of women during the 20th century turn it possible in some places that White women can have also more access to the colored males, who were, before that time, a kind of forbidden fruit. In some places in the Caribbean and Africa you have a kind of sexual or romantic tourism where White females from Europe and America come and have close encounters with local beach boys. Sometimes I see where I live, Maputo, groups of two, three or four White women walking without any male counterpart and in some cases (we can resist the temptation to generalize!) young local males say that “they are on the hunt!”. Obviously, because of the nature of male sexuality, once females show openness to something, males do jump, opportunistically on that possibility, regardless of race. I think also that poor males do, in not few cases, entertain the fantasy of engaging romantically with a rich woman, who is oft inaccessible to them because of social status. When the possibility appears, they don’t overlook it!
Just some thoughts about the issue in discussion…
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@Kiwi,
I agree with your assessment to Pumpkin. If we go by historical precedence in the USA, then Eurasian sons tend to experience treatment more in line with their fathers, eg,
– Eurasians with Japanese fathers also were sent to the Internment camps (often even with their white mothers); those with Japanese mothers not necessarily, at least if the white father was present.
– Eurasians with Chinese fathers were be subject to the same expulsion pogroms and laws affecting Chinese during the Exclusion and anti-miscegenation eras.
Having said that, most Eurasians prior to the 1960s had Asian fathers (except for the children of post WWII war brides). It may be more difficult to speculate exactly how it would unfold after 2016.
A good movie that examines some of the prevailing attitudes in the 20th century would include Bridge to the Sun (1961) (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0054701/), based on the true story of a Japanese diplomat (played by James Shigeta) who married a white woman from Jim Crow Tennessee (played by Carroll Baker). Both the husband and the wife were the object of great suspicion from both sides.
Trailer: (http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/bridge-to-the-sun/trailers/11184154)
Interestingly, but not surprisingly, the film did push some stereotypes of Eurasians (referring to the couple’s daughter) as being a “Bridge” between East and West (hence the film’s title).
Imagine how avant-garde it must have been in 1961 to see an Asian man kiss a white woman on the cinema screen, but yet how it seems so much more taboo in the 2010s.
Nothing illustrates this more than the War Brides Act. Asian men could not go to Asia for many decades and bring wives back, but as soon as white men decided they wanted to, then an exception was made in their case, even spurring the overturning of some states’ anti-miscegenation laws. Even Asian born men could not go to Asia and bring back an Asian wife AFTER the War Brides Act because they were not allowed to become citizens (and the Act applied only to US citizens).
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@Pumpkin
“Dr. Francis Cress Welsing should have been more notable than she was. Some people haven’t heard of her, but her work has been very influential. If she had been a Black male, she would have had more followers and been more renowned.”
I don’t think she would be any more notable if she were a male. Her work is highly controversial–as is the subject of melanin in general, even though there is so much scientific research about it.
Many commenters on this blog have ignored her MD and called her a “quack” and “pseudoscientist”, called her a “racist,” and called her work “100% crapola.” It hurts their feelings.
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To resw77:
called her a “racist,”
Which is an accurate statement.
rac·ist
ˈrāsəst/
noun
1.
a person who believes that a particular race is superior to another.
adjective
1.
having or showing the belief that a particular race is superior to another.
By the definition above, Dr Welsing was a racist – as her book The Isis Papers endorsed and supported the idea of superiority of blacks over whites.
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Her book “The Isis Papers.” is nothing but pseudoscience. I am sorry but that is the Truth. Can’t be racism challenged without spreading lies? The origin of white skin has nothing to do with albino mutants as any educated man or woman should know. Also, melanin has no magical powers. She also stated that black male homosexuality was imposed on the black man by the white man in order to reduce the black population. WTF?
Did she ever provided any proof for her nonsensical, hate-filled rants?
The alleged properties of melanin, mostly unsupported, irrelevant, or distortions of the scientific literature, are then used to justify Afrocentric assertions. One of the most common is that humans evolved as blacks in Africa, and that whites are mutants (albinos, or melanin recessives) (Welsing 1989; King 1991). No one disputes that humans evolved from Africa, but the rest of the statement profoundly distorts genetics. Afrocentrics treat skin color as if it was governed only by one gene, and thus subject to absolute Mendelian dominance / recessiveness. If this were true, humans could only be black or white. However, skin color, like intelligence or height, is controlled by several genes, which explains why humans exhibit a wide color spectrum. Whites do not exhibit a total absence of melanin, but only a lesser amount. That is why whites can increase the amount of melanin in their skin by exposure to the sun. There is also no evidence that the amount of melanin in internal organs correlates with the amount of melanin in the skin. For example, the amount of melanin in the substantia nigra is normal in albinos (Siegel et al. 1989: 755).
Welsing (1989; 1991) uses the notion of whites as melanin recessives to explain white racism on a “scientific” basis. She professes that white men have to destroy black men in self defense because black men have the potential to destroy white men genetically. According to Welsing, a white child can only be produced by having a white mother and father. She claims that all other combinations can only produce black children, and that black men are considered dangerous because they could force white women to have sex. These ideas are easily acceptable in parts of the African-American community where there is broad support for theories that claim the existence of a conspiracy to destroy black males. The high rates of murder, of imprisonment, and of drug use, as well as the high rates of unemployment among black males, are cited as evidence for the conspiracy. The seemingly scientific explanation and academic credentials of some of the speakers are impressive to audiences uneducated in science. This appealing “scientific” explanation for white racism, in turn, makes other melanin claims more likely to be accepted.
Welsing proposed that a correlation between high blood pressure and blackness of skin was due to the fact that melanin picks up energy vibrations from other people under stress. The darker the skin, the more melanin, and thus the more vibrations would supposedly be picked up. In turn, this higher sensitivity to vibrations of others would lead to higher blood pressure in the recipients. Welsing (1989) expanded this idea to explain why George Washington Carver was so successful in discovering useful products from plants. According to Welsing, Carver owed his success not to his master’s degree in chemistry, but to the fact that he was very dark. She states that Carver discovered the components of plants and their uses because the plants “talked to his melanin and told him what they were good for” during his early morning strolls in the woods. The consequences of a wide acceptance of this notion by AfricanAmerican schoolchildren could be quite damaging. Children could reject appeals from teachers to study hard for years in order to be prepared to become scientists. Black children could respond that in order to be a scientist all they need do is “Let my melanin pick up the vibes.”
According to Welsing, the Dogon’s melanin functions in a manner similar to an infrared telescope, and they were able to detect Sirius B through the melanin in their pineal glands. Welsing claims further that everything that happens on Earth is converted to energy and beamed up to Sirius B. She maintains that the high melanin content of black people enables them to tap into that information. She alleges that Greek oracles were black and that their melanin enabled them, as it does present-day blacks, to foresee the future.
Only a fool would believe all of this. There are truly great black men and women fighting for truth and justice that one can read or listen to without all this irrational bs.
More information here:
http://www.orchestratedpulse.com/2016/01/hidden-colors-frances-cress-welsing/
http://instituteforscienceandhumanvalues.com/articles/norm%20allen/afrocentricity.htm
Learn, study, and never fear the truth. Bad information makes people an easy target.
Peace.
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Lemmy
I don’t think at anytime she said blacks are superior, so much as saying that whites are jealous of blacks or the idea of whites fear of blacks. Odd thing is people get so hung up on her melanin theory that they ignore the underlying point. A point that, while not supported in science, is supported in the actions of white males.
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I will miss her.
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To sharinalr:
so much as saying that whites are jealous of blacks or the idea of whites fear of blacks.
Yes she repeatedly made statements to that effect…
I don’t think at anytime she said blacks are superior,
But her philosophy was rooted in the idea that blacks (and other darker skinned people) were superior to whites.using phrases to describe whites as genetically deficient and inadequate.
“Western civilization is the lack of white self-appreciation, predicated upon the
fundamental inadequacy of the white genetic makeup.”
I mean really.. if a white person never used the phrase “whites are superior to blacks” but described blacks as being genetically deficient and inadequate to whites, what would you call that person..?
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Lemmy
“But her philosophy was rooted in the idea that blacks (and other darker skinned people) were superior to whites.using phrases to describe whites as genetically deficient and inadequate.”—-No, that is your idea of what you believe her work to be saying. Lacking something genetically does not translate to a lack of ability to be great and achieve. Ithe really just means you don’t have something. In context to what she has been saying, because whites lack a certain level of esteem they seek to be rid themselves of things they see as a challenge to them as whites. I am not talking or arguing for or against melanin theory(don’t know enough about it or fully agree with it), but I will speak on other aspects of what is being said.
“but described blacks as being genetically deficient and inadequate to whites, what would you call that person..?”—–Same thing we have been calling then for years. A scientist.
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Them*
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Thanks, Sharina. I find it funny that Lemmy can pull out quotes for everything except what he accuses Welsing of saying.
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To sharinalr:
“but described blacks as being genetically deficient and inadequate to whites, what would you call that person..?”—–Same thing we have been calling then for years. A scientist.
A scientist in the modern era won’t have their job very long if they made such a statement – for example James Watson. Although certainly, not long along white scientists made such statements about blacks with impunity.
Did you read the Isis Papers..?
I don’t agree with Purusha’s statement that Dr. Welsing was hateful but much of the rest of her statement I believe is apt.
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To Kiwi:
Watson losing his job but not Welsing only tells me that he was taken seriously enough for his views to be dangerous but Welsing’s views were not.
“Her Cress Theory essay was published while she was an assistant professor of pediatrics at the Howard University College of Medicine. According to Welsing, it caused such a stir that her tenure at the university was not renewed in 1975.”
http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G2-2870700072.html
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Lemmy
“A scientist in the modern era won’t have their job very long if they made such a statement – for example James Watson. Although certainly, not long along white scientists made such statements about blacks with impunity.”—–Which is why they just reword it in a manner that makes it more acceptable.
“don’t agree with Purusha’s statement that Dr. Welsing was hateful but much of the rest of her statement I believe is apt.” — I don’t care, because Purusha’s statements are about her melanin theory, which I clearly stated I am not arguing for or against. You are deflecting to that to avoid the truth behind what she is saying about whites fear of blacks.
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Not just a fear of blacks but a fear of anyone not white.
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To sharinalr:
You are deflecting to that to avoid the truth behind what she is saying about whites fear of blacks… Not just a fear of blacks but a fear of anyone not white.
I said was Dr Welsing, by the standard definition of the word, was a racist.. As to whether her rationale about the white fear of blacks due to genetic annihilation is real or not, as has been pointed here by others, neither the Romans nor Greeks exhibited any undue fear of blacks or other darker skinned people, Romans had African emperors and generals and the Greeks considered Egypt a fount of learning and wisdom.
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@Lemmy
If she’s so racist it shouldn’t be that difficult for you to point out an example of something she actually said or did that’s racist.
I’ll be waiting…
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Lemmy
“I said was Dr Welsing, by the standard definition of the word, was a racist.”—–Yet have not presented anything that supports the standard definition of her being racist.
“As to whether her rationale about the white fear of blacks due to genetic annihilation is real or not, as has been pointed here by others, neither the Romans nor Greeks exhibited any undue fear of blacks or other darker skinned people, Romans had African emperors and generals and the Greeks considered Egypt a fount of learning and wisdom.”—-Yet I don’t think her work is based on Romans or Greeks. So what is your point? Let us look at a time when whites felt less fear to conclude that they do not fear blacks?
If I am not mistaken they learned and aquired knowledge they did not have from those groups. You will not easily harm or cause contention with a group you need until you get what you want. Native Americans come to mind. Having blacks around and in positions of power does not mean you do not fear them. We have a black president today and people still will act in fear of him. We have black CEOs and a cop will still shoot them down and claim hey feared for their life.
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To sharinalr:
Yet I don’t think her work is based on Romans or Greeks. So what is your point? Let us look at a time when whites felt less fear to conclude that they do not fear blacks?
My point is that if this fear was a white reaction based upon genetic inadequacy to darker skinned people then why didn’t the Romans and Greeks who had hundreds of years of interaction with people who had shades of skin markedly darker than theirs, exhibit this fear..?
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Lemmy
And my point is that you have no real concrete idea if they exhibited the fear or not. It is a given fact that over the years whites have dealt with the fear of POC in many ways. Some times physical and sometimes mental. Usually depending on what they think they can get put of POC.
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To resw77:
If she’s so racist it shouldn’t be that difficult for you to point out an example of something she actually said or did that’s racist.
First.. I didn’t say she was “so” racist – I said she was racist. I’ll repeat the same thing I said to sharinalr, if we reverse the roles – eg if a white person describes blacks as genetically defective and inadequate would you call that person a racist..?
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Lemmy
Repeating the questionto resw77 and it still comes out the same. They are called scientist. Trying to change it to modern Era…..that is called goal post shifting.
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To sharinalr:
And my point is that you have no real concrete idea if they exhibited the fear or not.
Well we can access many thousands of pages of material from the Greeks and Romans… if anything the Romans exhibited (somewhat) a fear of the Northern barbarians mixed with an outlook of the Noble Savage similar to European view of Native Peoples of the Americas.
I get the impression that Abagond (and others on this board) doesn’t believe that the Greeks and Romans exhibited this fear as he has consistently stated they were not racist (and I would agree). Perhaps he can clarify.
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To sharinalr:
They are called scientist.
No shortage of whites, unfortunately even today, can be found that call blacks inadequate or deficient, the vast majority were and are not scientists. Whether they were scientists or not…. their views would still be racist.
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Lemmy
Being fearful of someone does not necessarily translate to “you’re racist”. So just because people on here don’t believe they are does not mean they did not have a fear of the other.
Your belief or what other people may or may not think does not provide proof or a support that they did not fear POC.
:No shortage of whites, unfortunately even today, can be found that call blacks inadequate or deficient, the vast majority were and are not scientists. Whether they were scientists or not…. their views would still be racist.”—-That is besides the point now isn’t it? People that speak in the manner of Welsing are scientist and have been called such for years. Your need to deflect to the “there are people who do that are not” means nothing.
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To sharinalr
That is besides the point now isn’t it?
Why..? I responded to resw77 by saying that she was a racist… if she believed what she wrote that whites were genetically inadequate and deficient then yes by the standard definition, she was a racist. That, of course, does not necessarily make her wrong.
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Lemmy
Bringing in the other whites who view blacks as inadequate or deficient and how they are not scientists serves no point. Regardless of your idea that you were responding to resw77. Which is a lie because the quote you are referring to was in response to me. Not Resw77.
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To Kiwi:
The rest of what I said, however, still stands. At my school, James Watson is held up as a reputable pioneer in genetics who revolutionized the field of biology in spite of his statements about Blacks.
As I understand Watson’s comments about Africa were offhand and came out as part of interview about other matters although yes I think he did believe what he said. He produced plenty of academic material that was and is relevant and totally unrelated to race but that doesn’t mean he can’t be right on everything. Dr. Welsing may have had great insight into the human mind but about the only thing I have to judge her knowledge is the book the Isis Papers and some other lectures attributed to her floating around the internet which take a highly divergent interpretation on biology, as well as her interpretation of symbols, and view of gay men.
I would bet a lot of money that a good deal of the faculty and students secretly agree with his views.
Unfortunately, possibly true, I wouldn’t know.
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To sharinalr
Regardless of your idea that you were responding to resw77. Which is a lie because the quote you are referring to was in response to me. Not Resw77.
Not sure what you mean, my first comment on this thread was to resw77:
Yes you and I have exchange posts about the matter.. but the exchange on the thread started with my first comment on the thread to resw77.
Bringing in the other whites who view blacks as inadequate or deficient and how they are not scientists serves no point.
My point is that when placing the shoe on the other foot it would be clear to almost everyone that a white person saying the same thing would be racist. You don’t have to accept that but that’s my opinion. By the standard definition of the word, Dr Welsing, at least from comments in book – was a racist or perhaps I should say espoused a racist belief. How she was in person I don’t know but in videos she seemed pleasant and well spoken, but throughout history there have been well meaning but racist people.
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Lemmy
I know where the exchange started at. You act as if pointing out the beginning on the exchange is going to make a difference. It will not as the point stands regardless. You bring in irrelevant information for no reason.
“My point is that when placing the shoe on the other foot it would be clear to almost everyone that a white person saying the same thing would be racist.”—Yet it is also clear to everyone that said person is considered a doctor or scientist none the less and their work has been and is used to shape how POC are treated.
“You don’t have to accept that but that’s my opinion.”‘—I don’t care enough about your opinion to accept or reject it, but I know we’ll enough it is not supported by anything other than your “I think” which is what I said above. Need the link to that comment?
“By the standard definition of the word, Dr Welsing, at least from comments in book – was a racist or perhaps I should say espoused a racist belief. How she was in person I don’t know but in videos she seemed pleasant and well spoken, but throughout history there have been well meaning but racist people.”—-Quote something from her book that was racist or epoused a racist belief. The problem is you keeping saying how racist it is without even a quote of what is suppose to be racist.
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@Lemmy
I’m still waiting on the racist thing she said or did. No offense, but I don’t trust your interpretation, regurgitation or belief about her ideas, and why should I?
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The problem is you keeping saying how racist it is without even a quote..
I have already submitted the relevant quote.. would you like a link to the book and a reference to the pages..? You and resw77 have said I think Dr Welsing was “so” or “saying how” racist she was.. I don’t know the degree to which she felt was she said was true about white genetic inadequacy in the Isis Papers. In later years she back away from her melanin theory, but when someone describes a “race” as being genetically deficient or inadequate…well. I call that racism. You don’t have to agree.
I’m off for the evening.
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Lemmy
“I have already submitted the relevant quote.. would you like a link to the book and a reference to the pages..?”—You have not submitted a relevant quote. You have basically been saying she is racist and you provided two words you say she said, but not one quote. So anything would be a start at this point.
“You and resw77 have said I think Dr Welsing was “so” or “saying how” racist she was.”—-A) Please quote where I engaged in asking or caring the degree to which you think she is racist? B) What relevance does it have to this argument? You are making an issue out of the degree as if it matters. It does not.
“I call that racism. You don’t have to agree.”—I don’t agree. Now what? You still have not supported that it is.
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@Lemmy
OK, I don’t consider that quote racist. But here’s why you think it is: you have a double standard.
You think of whites as the standard because western medical researchers compare blacks to the white standard and tell blacks that they have inadequate levels of X if X is less than that of whites.
Example: Vitamin D “inadequacy” in African Americans (based on the assumption that white Vitamin D levels should be the standard)
You don’t have a problem that they constantly point out such “inadequacies” among blacks, but when a black physician suggests whites have inadequate levels of melanin compared to blacks, it’s somehow racist…only because you believe whites should be used as the standard instead.
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@ Lemmy
Yes, please do provide a quote with page number and all of that.
Without context this is ambiguous. It might just mean what she has always said, that it is White people who think they are genetically inferior.
If someone said this out of the blue, like how you are presenting it, they might put “supposed” before “fundamental inadequacy”, but in a book that is talking all about it, that would be tiresome.
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@ Lemmy
Re: Greeks and Romans:
She said this melanin threat thing only goes back a few hundred years. She is mainly talking about White Americans. She is American, after all. On occasion she brings up the Nazis, but, as far as I can remember, never the Greeks, Romans or even, say, Brazilians.
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To Abagond:
She said this melanin threat thing only goes back a few hundred years. She is mainly talking about White Americans. She is American, after all. On occasion she brings up the Nazis, but, as far as I can remember, never the Greeks, Romans or even, say, Brazilians.
From the Isis Papers:
“Black people everywhere must begin to understand why
the Black collective, and Black males in particular, have been under intensive attack for the past 2,000 years. Indeed, Jesus was a Black male who was lynched by uniformed white male Roman soldiers 2,000 years ago, as a result of the same war that has continued into the present day
extension of the same Roman (white) empire.”
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To Abagond, resw77, sharinalr:
The following quotes are from a paper Dr Welsing gave called:
“Neurochemical Basis For Evil” which was later incorporated into the Isis Papers. Although the quotes are from an online link they conform with other sources for this chapter of the Isis Papers. I have bolded the parts I consider racist.
http://www.assatashakur.org/forum/breaking-down-understanding-our-enemies/1313-neurochemical-basis-evil.html
In 1972, I presented a paper entitled, “Melanin: The Neurochemical Basis for Soul”, at the annual meeting of the National Medical Association Section on Neurology and Psychiatry. I theorized that the presence of melanin in high concentrations in Blacks accounted for some of the observable differences in behavior between Black and white People(I.e., religious responsiveness, rhythm, emotional responsiveness, sensitivity levels), noting the familiar saying amongst older Black people, “the blacker the berry, the sweeter the juice; if it ain’t got no soul, it ain’t got no use. Also, I emphasized the song by James Brown, “We Got More Soul.” Further, I pointed out that the most sensitive body areas are the areas most highly pigmented.
Melville’s linkage of evil and dread with the condition of albinism parallels my own thesis that the absence of the neuropeptide melanin-the absence of this black pigment in the skin and other aspects of the nervous system – critically impairs the depth sensitivity of the nervous system and the ability to tune in to the total spectrum of energy frequencies in the universe. This deficiency of sensory awareness sets the stage for the absence of harmony (the chaos and destruction), which is evil. Thus, the injustice and evil of white supremacy not only has its foundation in the numerical minority status of the global white population and its genetically recessive status in terms of melanin pigment production, but the very absence of melanin in the nervous system in significant degrees (decreasing sensory input and thus sensitivity) is an additional contributing factor in the problem of white supremacist injustice. White supremacy is the greatest known evil on Earth. Likewise, racism (white supremacy) is the unified force field that encompasses all of the lesser evils we now recognize. Indeed, if the absence of melanin obstructs the nervous system’s ability to tune in to the total spectrum of frequencies in the universe, rendering those lacking melanin incapable of acting in harmony with those frequencies, then it becomes incumbent upon those possessing melanin to counteract the evil.
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To Abagond:
Sorry I was busy and didn’t elaborate on my thoughts with this post:
Abagond said:
She said this melanin threat thing only goes back a few hundred years. She is mainly talking about White Americans. She is American, after all. On occasion she brings up the Nazis, but, but, as far as I can remember, never the Greeks, Romans or even, say, Brazilians.
The source of the quote below was from her paper The Symbolism, Logic and Meaning of”Justifiable Homicide” in the 1980s which was incorporated into the Isis Papers page 183.
http://brownwatch.squarespace.com/what-is-racism/2013/3/22/the-symbolism-logic-and-meaning-of-justifiable-homicide.html
“Black people everywhere must begin to understand why
the Black collective, and Black males in particular, have been under intensive attack for the past 2,000 years. Indeed, Jesus was a Black male who was lynched by uniformed white male Roman soldiers 2,000 years ago, as a result of the same war that has continued into the present day
extension of the same Roman (white) empire.”
Yes, she was American and did emphasize dynamics in the US but she made it plain that she thought white supremacy was global system (including communist Eastern Bloc countries and the Soviet Union) and at least in the quote above it appears she thought white supremacy had been in place since the Roman empire and ran as a continuum to the modern day. She also mentioned the Greeks and Romans at multiple points in essay
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Lemmy
If you consider those quotes racist then your racism radar is broken. Not to mention you are reaching.
Based on the first quote if I say I have more curves or breast than white women then I must then be racist. Being more spiritually in tune ir sensitive do to a larger amount of melanin is a lot of things but racist no. Lol
Secondly here she I talking of white supremacy, which does not always translate to white people from my understanding. The quote in and of itself uses the melanin theory to explain racism.
In short you have not found anything showing her as racist.
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@Lemmy
“Melanin-concentrating hormone control of sleep-wake behavior” http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23477948
“Ablation of the hypothalamic neuropeptide melanin concentrating hormone is associated with behavioral abnormalities that reflect impaired olfactory integration” http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21669232
“Boswell further speculates that AIT [auditpry integration training] reduces sound sensitivity and improves pineal function by INCREASING MELANIN in the stria vascularis in the middle ear. The stria is the “battery” of the cochlea…” https://books.google.com/books?id=TkaMAgAAQBAJ&pg=PT157&lpg=PT157&dq=boswell+ait+theory+melanin&source=bl&ots=e6eOetyU1X&sig=5XeElQ3ZdEh3YVvLY1gV3aZGoHg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjqv4vYgZ3KAhXMbj4KHTlqDgkQ6AEIHDAA#v=onepage&q=boswell%20ait%20theory%20melanin&f=false
“The audiological findings of minor susceptibility to noise exposure by pigmented animals and humans suggest an influence of melanin on inner ear physiology and pathophysiology…. http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007%2F978-1-4684-1300-7_5#page-2
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Indian albinos:
s3.amazonaws.com/medias.photodeck.com/358685dd-aee4-41b3-aa61-4a7cf51d2697/Brett-Cole-India-06077_xlarge.jpg
c8.alamy.com/comp/E7JAKF/two-albinos-covering-and-closing-their-sensitive-eyes-from-the-sunlight-E7JAKF.jpg
http://farm1.staticflickr.com/207/535559954_3965ce90fe_z.jpg?zz=1
c1.staticflickr.com/3/2728/4269298709_11ca71ef43.jpg
http://www.realhistoryww.com/world_history/ancient/Misc/Roma/Maria.jpg
davidlazarphoto.com/amp/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/02-David-Lazar-Girl-With-Green-Eyes-and-Red-Headscarf.jpg
lh4.ggpht.com/-PLyoy5x0GKk/UB9kPp_u-AI/AAAAAAAANpc/PIXx9zYvN6E/2012-07-26-Rising-Star-Outreach-5741.jpg?imgmax=800
ephotobay.com/image/picture-30-39.png
http://www.indiamike.com/files/images/06/99/11/the-albino-beggars-of-mangalore.jpg
i0.wp.com/realhistoryww.com/world_history/ancient/Misc/Common/India/Indian_Albinos/V_P_Sekar_s.jpg
i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02712/MARIA-BROTHER_2712663c.jpg
cdn.everyjoe.com/wp-content/gallery/albino-indians/prince-william-indian-dna-albino-indians-4.jpg
realhistoryww.com/world_history/ancient/Misc/Common/India/Indian_Albinos/Kulshan_s.jpg
cdn.everyjoe.com/wp-content/gallery/albino-indians/prince-william-indian-dna-albino-indians-5.jpg
http://www.oddities123.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/indian-albinos-5.jpg
http://www.columbusmagazine.nl/images/user_images5/31832/1000×1000/31832.jpg
http://www.motherlandmagazine.com/images/Skin/2WhiteTooWhite/V.SIVA.jpg
http://www.motherlandmagazine.com/images/Skin/2WhiteTooWhite/TAMILSELVI.jpg
http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/resources/images/2305427/
i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02712/maria-bulgaria_2712336c.jpg
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/images/episode/b00pxn0z_640_360.jpg
http://www.realhistoryww.com/world_history/ancient/Whites/Pak_1.JPG
i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/10/24/article-2474887-18F5ACD100000578-701_306x423.jpg
http://www.brentstirton.com/data/photos/5084_1blindalbinismweb_20.jpg
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/article29701859.ece/ALTERNATES/h342/NWS_20131026_NEW_004_29410057_I1.JPG
http://www.galeriehilanehvonkories.de/assets/images/deffner/white-too-white/lightbox/large/TwoFamilies03.jpg
http://www.galeriehilanehvonkories.de/assets/images/deffner/white-too-white/lightbox/large/M.Ravi.jpg
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cdn.everyjoe.com/wp-content/gallery/albino-indians/prince-william-indian-dna-albino-indians-5.jpg
solarey.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/albinisim-00.png
https://i.guim.co.uk/img/static/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2014/9/11/1410450450107/7fd3cddc-be2d-4fd9-8a9c-5a9584510286-2060×1373.jpeg?w=1225&q=85&auto=format&sharp=10&s=eaa75212c215e00b6bea547ab8dc13fd
c2.staticflickr.com/2/1248/640667201_af36eb697f.jpg
http://www.realhistoryww.com/world_history/ancient/Images_Indus/albino_5.jpg
http://www.galeriehilanehvonkories.de/assets/images/deffner/white-too-white/lightbox/large/S.Mahesh.jpg
http://www.realhistoryww.com/world_history/ancient/Images_Indus/albino_12.jpg
static1.squarespace.com/static/54339302e4b0e2920961a194/5433a024e4b06df16113907d/54470f8be4b0fbbce20f384c/1413979600035/albinomarket-wpa.jpg?format=1000w
http://www.realhistoryww.com/world_history/ancient/Misc/Common/India/Indian_Albinos/The_Bhatti.jpg
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To resw77:
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2016/01/03/frances-cress-welsing/#comment-305921
The links are not comparing melanin concentrations in external skin but in the brain and inner ear nor is there any discussion of how any of this may pertain to racial differences.
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“She also mentioned the Greeks and Romans at multiple points in essay.”—–Actually she only mentioned Romans that once and greeks none in that entire essay. ijs
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To sharinalr:
Being more spiritually in tune ir sensitive do to a larger amount of melanin is a lot of things but racist no.
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To sharinalr:
“She also mentioned the Greeks and Romans at multiple points in essay.”
Yes, that should have been “She also mentioned the Greeks and Romans at multiple points in her essays.” (Plural)
The other essay I was thinking of was
The Politics Behind Black Male Passivity, Effeminization, Bisexuality and Homosexuality
She again mentions the Roman empire as the initial source of white supremacy with the sanctioning of Christianity as a religion under emperor Constantine.
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There is also no evidence that the Ancient Greeks and Romans were actually White, there is however evidence that they were black and brown skinned! The Ancient Greeks and Romans and Etruscans, died out as a race due to climatic shifts. plague outbreaks, wars, general societal decline, and barbarian invasions.
Modern White Europeans are Eurasian transplants and migrants who moved in en masse to Europe and replaced the original Black European population through a process of hundreds of years. They are the descendants of the Avars, Alans, Goths, Vandals, Germanics, Slavs, Turks, Scythians, Cimmerians, Sarmatians, Bulgars, Ossetians etc etc barbarian tribes described in Greek historical texts. Modern Greeks also have absolutely nothing to do with Ancient Greeks AT ALL!
And yes, your brain does not need melanin in the brain and for normal functioning in the body! The reason why Whites get neurological diseases like Schizophrenia, Alzheimer’s, Autism, OCD at HIGHER RATES then OTHER RACES is because they lack melanin in the brain and because they are not a race but a people characterized by albinism!
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your brain does need melanin* correction
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Lemmy
Putting a link to one of Abagond’s post does not support or prove your idea that what she said is racist. Especially when your issue or idea of her being racist is based on what she says about white people not black people. So your link equals nothing. You are simply reaching for any and everything to side the fact that you have not a hint of anything to support your idea that she is racist.
You need to quote that essay, because so far you are not showing to be trust worthy in regards to what she says versus what you conclude. Even still greeks do no seem to be mentioned and Romans seem to have a two word max in her work.
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To sharinalr:
You need to quote that essay..
Even still greeks do no seem to be mentioned and Romans seem to have a two word max in her work.
Essay – (Chapter 2) The Origin of Alienation, Anxiety and Narcissism
The alienation dynamic increasingly forces people away from one another as Western civilization and culture evolves, as seen through each successive generation since its origin including Greek civilization and the Roman Empire.
Essay (Chapter 5) The Symbolism of Christ, the Cross, the Crucifix,
the Communion and Christian Holidays
Constantine I (“The Great”), the Roman emperor who ruled 306-337
A.D., built Constantinople and made Christian worship lawful in the
beginnings of the white supremacy system, had the following words
placed on the cross, “In Hoc Signo Vinces” (In this sign you will conquer).
—————————————-
In contrast to this Black man and the Black peoples of Africa, the
peoples on the northern side of the Mediterranean Sea, some of whom
referred to themselves as Romans, were then aggressing against and
establishing conquests in Africa. They were men without skin pigmentation
(white men). The most likely essence of the story of Jesus, who only later was
referred to as “Christ,” was that he was a poor Black man, a carpenter, a
member of the non-white oppressed population, whose ideas as expressed
in the Beatitudes threatened the power, control and authority of the
conquering Romans. If Jesus and the other Blacks got out of control, the
Romans (the whites) could be annihilated genetically. Of course, then as
now, under white supremacy domination, Jesus (the non-white) was
turned over to the white oppressors who then used some of his fellow-victimized (self-hating non-whites who wished to ingratiate themselves to
the white oppressors) to kill him. Jesus, this Black man, was then hung
on a cross, a peculiar invention of the Roman (white) psyche..
Essay (Chapter 10) Ball Games as Symbols: The War of the Balls
Games that consist of throwing balls of various sizes date back to ancient Rome and Greece,early cultures that had extensive contact with Black men in Africa.~
Essay – (Chapter 18) The Cress theory of the holocaust
A fine example is the Roman (white) soldiers’ sexual aggression against African women. In my decoding, the word Semite, as from the Latin prefix “semi-,” means someone whose ancestry was a Black and white mixture, therefore Black (since Black is genetically dominant).
Essay – (Chpater 25) The White Supremacy System, the White Supremacy
Mind-Set and the AIDS Holocaust
“As persons who were referred to in Germany and throughout Europe
as Semites, the Jews were not considered to be white people or aryans.
As Semites they were considered to have their genetic roots amongst
Africans- Black people on the continent of Africa. Indeed, the word Semite is derived from the Latin preflx “semi,” which means half. Semites were the products of the genetic mixture produced when white Greek and Roman soldiers invaded Africa and raped African women, who of course were Black. Semite means the same as mulatto.”
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“The reason why Whites get neurological diseases like Schizophrenia, Alzheimer’s, Autism, OCD at HIGHER RATES then OTHER RACES”
You statement conflicts with data below:
Schizophrenia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epidemiology_of_schizophrenia
Autism
http://www.wsj.com/articles/autism-rates-higher-among-certain-immigrants-minorities-1403543838
Alzheimer’s:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK25535/
This does not mean any of the above illness affecting non-whites at a higher rate are tied to race, there are very likely environmental and sociological causes to the create the differences.
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Lemmy
A) Then she has mentioned them at length.
B) Yet nothing in it still indicates it is racist.
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To sharinalr:
B) Yet nothing in it still indicates it is racist.
I have replied in another thread why I thought some of the Isis Paper was racist and I feel it meets the definition of the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.
My mention of Greeks and Romans was in reference to my previous statement about the Greek and Roman view of Africa:
“As to whether her rationale about the white fear of blacks due to genetic annihilation is real or not, as has been pointed here by others, neither the Romans nor Greeks exhibited any undue fear of blacks or other darker skinned people, Romans had African emperors and generals and the Greeks considered Egypt a fount of learning and wisdom.”
And a reply to Abagond, who knows ancient Greek history very well.
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Lemmy
Nothing she said meets that definition though. That is where your argument fails. You have have not presented anything at all to support that what she said equates to placing one group as inferior or superior. By your logic reports on Asians being more thin is racist. By your logic ever single science report that seeks to categorize each race and stats on them is racist.
“My mention of Greeks and Romans was in reference to my previous statement about the Greek and Roman view of Africa”—-That statement was actually in response to my claim that “You are deflecting to that to avoid the truth behind what she is saying about whites fear of blacks… Not just a fear of blacks but a fear of anyone not white.” Your mention of them did not then and still has not now supported the idea that they did not have a fear of blacks. You later tried to equate fear to racism, but fearing something does not automatically mean racist either.
So you have not showed her as racist and you linked to another argument in which you have not proved or supported that Romans and greeks had no fear of blacks. Your use Abagond knows is not proof.
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So please explain how you responded to Abagond who had not said anything to you for several posts down?
Secondly when he asked you to put one of the quotes in context you still have no done that. Not that it matters as even that quote was not racist.
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@Lemmy
“The links are not comparing melanin concentrations in external skin but in the brain and inner ear nor is there any discussion of how any of this may pertain to racial differences.”
Those links show biological research on the neurological effects of melanin, to which Welsing’s psychiatric theories pertain.
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To resw77:
Those links show biological research on the neurological effects of melanin..
As far as I could see none of links mentioned race or how any of this may or may not affect normal European whites versus any other racial or ethnic group.
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To sharinalr:
So please explain how you responded to Abagond who had not said anything to you for several posts down?
You had replied to a post I made specifically to Abagond, I chose to reply to you, corrected an error (because I used a singular instead of the plural for essay) and clarified my position.
Secondly when he asked you to put one of the quotes in context you still have no done that. Not that it matters as even that quote was not racist.
I posted what I considered where the most salient quotes (the ones in bold), multiple paragraphs of text, the location in the book, and provided a link to the full chapter.
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Louis Farrakhan gives a beautiful eulogy for Dr. Frances C. Welsing on the Dick Gregory show.
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQYuyFrEEwE)
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Lemmy
You stated:
My mention of Greeks and Romans was in reference to my previous statement about the Greek and Roman view of Africa:
“As to whether her rationale about the white fear of blacks due to genetic annihilation is real or not, as has been pointed here by others, neither the Romans nor Greeks exhibited any undue fear of blacks or other darker skinned people, Romans had African emperors and generals and the Greeks considered Egypt a fount of learning and wisdom.
And a reply to Abagond, who knows ancient Greek history very well.”
This quote was made before abagond even engaged in the conversation, so you are now flat out lying and trying to deflect at that. Wow.
Here is a link to the comment abagond asked for context of:https://abagond.wordpress.com/2016/01/03/frances-cress-welsing/#comment-305892
What you provided was everything, but and still not that racist quotes you claimed to have found.
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@ Michael Cooper.
Those are priceless videos that you can keep forever. Before you know it your “little beautiful princess” will become an adult. Time travels so fast. One of my greatest regrets was working so much in my 30’s/40’s to be a great provider that I wasn’t their when I should have been to be with my children as they grew up. Balance between work and family is so important. You can never get that time back.
The second link doesn’t go to the video you wanted to post.
The problem areas in L.A. are where they have high density housing. It’s not based on race though the media gives a completely different picture.
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To sharinalr:
What you provided was everything, but and still not that racist quotes you claimed to have found.
Provided previously here:
I would willing to bet that the large majority of American whites would find the book racist and I find it racist, if you don’t agree that’s your prerogative.
This quote was made before abagond even engaged in the conversation, so you are now flat out lying and trying to deflect at that. Wow.
That quote is from a post before Abagond asked me a question.
Here’s the sequence of posts I thought we were talking about:
Abagond:
Lemmy:
sharinalr:
Lemmy:
sharinalr:
Lemmy:
So any thoughts on the comments of Gro Jo, Satanforce, Purusha..?
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Pumpkin asks,
Are you familiar with cuckolding? No. I had to google that but I’m not sure I got what you were getting at. Is this what you are referring too?
http://www.topix.com/forum/afam/TMT09B7NKGPLBI9E9
Have you heard of the Mandingo parties? Yes. But I’ve always looked at it as a fetish.
Their are people who have sexual fetishes based on race. Like white men who are obsessed with Asian women. That observable in American culture. I’ve seen that and I have observed that in a restaurant for example. That said I have friends and clients who have Asian wives who I wouldn’t describe their relationships being rooted in that kind of fetish.
I did have a lunch date once with a Black women once who made it clear from the start that she preferred white males. That was a turn off for me so I didn’t see her again. It made me feel that she was only interested in the color of my skin and not who I was as a person.
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To Abagond, sharianlr:
sharinalr said:
Here is a link to the comment abagond asked for context of:https://abagond.wordpress.com/2016/01/03/frances-cress-welsing/#comment-305892
The previous quote, I thought was more problematic but since Abagond asked and you reminded me it comes from:
Isis Papers (Chapter 19) Paper Money and Gold as Symbols
The side of American paper money engraved and printed black
symbolically (and unconsciously) represents the black (melanin pigmented)
skin that the albinos or whites should have possessed, were it not for their genetic defect of albinism (the reason for which they were
originally cast out of Africa by their Black mothers and fathers).
Further, it is no accident in the present day capital of the global white
supremacy system- Washington, D.C that the vast majority of the
people in the city are Black and that the paper money is printed by a large
majority of Black workers. In other words, Black backs are producing
“green backs,” which could equally be referred to as “black backs.”
Testicles contain the genetic material. In the context of
the decoded symbolism of gold, the alchemists’ search for the
“philosopher’s stone” can be translated as the search for the testicles that
contain the genetic potential to produce the satin black and golden brown
skin color. The word stone, meaning testicle, even comes down to the
present in such language expressions as “stone ache,” which is a colloquial
term used for “testicular ache.” The foregoing discussion is presented in the hope of increasing professional understanding and appreciation of the world of symbols, logic, thought and behavioral dynamics in which we presently find
ourselves. This world creates the functional pathologies that our patients
expect us to be able to solve. The central pathology of logic and thought spawned by Western civilization is the lack of white self-appreciation, predicated upon the fundamental inadequacy of the white genetic makeup. This lack of self respect has spread wherever Western civilization has gone and now infects all of the peoples on the planet As we move through this period in which paper money and gold are increasingly difficult to obtain (even
for many white-skinned people), it is now possible, with this symbolism
decoded, to understand why Blacks and other non-whites will continue to
experience difficulty obtaining paper money and gold. The psychiatrists working with Black patients will have the task of helping those patients understand paper money and gold as symbols in the culture and, most importantly, increase their sense of self-respect and self-worth – even in the face of the declining value of paper money and decreasing availability of gold. Indeed, Blacks and other non-whites already possess that for which gold and paper monies have become the symbols. Psychiatrists working with white patients also will have the task of helping those patients understand paper money and gold as deep symbols in the historic Western culture and, further, as substitutes for white self-respect.
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@Lemmy
Interesting how that quote looks in full context. Not racist.
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Lemmy
“I would willing to bet that the large majority of American whites would find the book racist and I find it racist, if you don’t agree that’s your prerogative.”—–A large majority of American whites find the act of discussing racism racist. I told you several times I don’t see her quotes as racist and you attempted several times, with fail, to show them as such. So that tells me more so you are hard up to show something that is not there.
“That quote is from a post before Abagond asked me a question.
Here’s the sequence of posts I thought we were talking about:”—–Duh!!! There is no way you could have or anyone could have thought that when you quoted and emphasized the darn thing. You know full well your lousy excuse is bs.
“So any thoughts on the comments of Gro Jo, Satanforce, Purusha..?”—–Of course. I said that up thread twice or maybe three times now. You want to pretend as if you did not see it or dance around the subject to avoid your behind made a claim that was not supported by anything other than your hurt feelings on the subject matter?
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To sharianlr:
I told you several times I don’t see her quotes as racist and you attempted several times, ,,, to show them as such.
You and resw77 were asking for quotes…as did later Abagond. Fair enough but I knew you would never be dissuaded from your position, This is just a debate exercise and my comments are directed more towards the many people who don’t actually post as Abagond’s site often ends in the top of search engines.
“So any thoughts on the comments of Gro Jo, Satanforce, Purusha..?”—–Of course. I said that up thread twice or maybe three times now.
I see one exactly one comment from you about Purusha saying she was discussing melanin theory when her post discussed much more than that. As far as I can see no one else has commented on any of their posts. (Aside from Satanforce posting to Gro Jo) Sort of what I expected.
your hurt feelings on the subject matter
You know full well your lousy excuse is bs.
And when nothing else works the ad hominen comes out…
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Whoops Toe Jam was Lemmy
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Lemmy
I did not ask for quotes until much later in this discussion and the quotes you provided prior were you trying to prove she was racist. You made a claim that you could not support. You can now fall back on “debate excersise” or how it was directed towards others, but bottom line is you failed to present anything that was supportive of your stance. You tried to even use the beliefs and thoughts of other commenter as a support of it but still no go.
“I see one exactly one comment from you about Purusha saying she was discussing melanin theory when her post discussed much m……”—-I said on two separate posts that I am not for or against the melanin theory. Which can be found here:
All three of those individuals main complaint is in regards to the melanin theory. So it would make perect sense why I am not debating any of them on the matter. The only reason we are debating it is because you threw in the Melanin theory to say she is racist and avoid addressing what was originally brought up. White man fear of blacks
“And when nothing else works the ad hominen comes out.”—You could call it an ad hominem if there was even a debate at this point. Obviously there is none. You were not able to prove your point. You had hurt feelings about this on the ISIS paper thread and you are responding the same here. *shrugs*
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To sharinalr:
I did not ask for quotes until much later in this discussion..
Resw77 started asking for quotes right off the bat, Abagond asked for context.
You could call it an ad hominem
Yep it’s ad hominem
You had hurt feelings..
Hurt feelings..? Eh whatever, Dr Welsing’s hypotheses ironically let’s whites off the hook to a large degree for their personal responsibility for racism because she believes it’s a reaction to their genetic condition. I suspect her work will fade into obscurity.
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Lemmy
“Resw77 started asking for quotes right off the bat, Abagond asked for context.”—What does that have to do with me? You stated it as if I was asking for quotes this whole time when in reality the quotes were not asked for on my end until you started to show a sign of quoting out of context. When put in context revealed that they were not racist.
“Yep it’s ad hominem”—–So what? You crying about someone telling you that you have hurt feelings as an ad hominem really only supports how emotional you are being. Besides I don’t really find you credible in the slightest here.
“Hurt feelings..? Eh whatever, Dr Welsing’s hypotheses ironically let’s whites off the hook to a large degree for their personal responsibility for racism because she believes it’s a reaction to their genetic condition. I suspect her work will fade into obscurity.”—Yet when met with her work your only reaction was an emotional one that you felt would be supported by saying Abagond believes, what about what other commenter said, or the fake racism in quotes. That is a sign of hurt feelings. Your fake “it lets whites off the hook” reply is just that. Fake. Because you only have such response based on her idea of whites being genetically inadequate.
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To sharinalr
Besides I don’t really find you credible in the slightest here.
Yes I know what you fell about me but you’re fun to argue with.. I get bored otherwise.
The words fake… hurt… feelings… emotion….
More ad hominem, and if you have forgotten the meaning:
(of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.
Anyway – I’ve got other things to do today.. later.
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Lemmy
“Yes I know what you fell about me but you’re fun to argue with.. I get bored otherwise”—–I don’t “fell” anything about you, but your argument was a joke. It had no real basis and you knew it.
“The words fake… hurt… feelings… emotion….
More ad hominem, and if you have forgotten the meaning:
(of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.”—-Then by that definition it was not an ad hominem because you were not maintaining a position at all when you were called such. Fake describes your sad attempt at covering your failings. Not you as a person. Like I said before…if you are crying about those being ad hominem you are really hard up emotional. ROFL
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Is Uncle Milton now known as Lemmy?
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@ Satanforce
Yes, Lemmy = Uncle Milton.
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@Lemmy
“As far as I could see none of links mentioned race or how any of this may or may not affect normal European whites versus any other racial or ethnic group.”
Whereas the biological observations led to theories that melanin’s neurological effects manifest as certain diseases, sleep disorders, olfactory and auditory system impairments, etc., Welsing’s psychiatric observations led to her theories that melanin’s neurological effects with regard to the skin manifest as white supremacy, etc.
Is it also racist to theorise a genetic reason for something positive like European IQ, inventiveness, etc.?
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Great summary. RIP to Dr. Cress Welsing, she was truly influential. Insecurities of people who classify themselves as “white” are everywhere. I think that insecurity is critical in understanding how the so-called white race functions as a unit, why they treat black people like garbage, and generally look down on other people of color. Look at how they talk about the world population growth, and how that growth is primarily concentrated where dark-skinned people live (West Africa, India). They are also concerned with the low birth rates in majority “white” countries in America and Western Europe. I think more people should be exposed to both Dr. Welsing and Mr. Neely Fuller Jr’s ideas. As a matter of fact, Timothy Wise seems to regurgitate a lot of Mr. Fuller’s work. I think people should know of the architects of these ideas.
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To resw77:
Is it also racist to theorise a genetic reason for something positive like European IQ, inventiveness, etc.?
Well often, I’d say yes. Classic examples would be Madison Grant and Lothrap Stoddard for European inventiveness and culture. More recent examples would be “IQ and the Wealth of Nations” by Lynn & Vanhanen.
Certainly organizations like the SPLC think most of the well know authors of books linking race & IQ are racist:
https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/individual/jean-philippe-rushton
https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/individual/richard-lynn
https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/individual/arthur-jensen
https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/individual/charles-murray
Among the list above I’d say Rushton, Lynn, and Jensen basically fall into the category of publishing racist material. Murray seems more circumspect and points out there are many under performing whites but I have only read a fraction of his writing.
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[…] some of you may have read elsewhere that Frances Cress Welsing that she was a singularly unique black intellectual, who has proposed an analysis of “color confrontation” that explains worldwide white […]
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Don’t worry. I’m here.
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@Uncle Milton
“Well often, I’d say yes”
OK, then sometimes you’d say no. Can you give an example?
Another question, are there any instances you can think of in which one’s skin complexion affects one’s actions?
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To resw77:
“Well often, I’d say yes”
OK, then sometimes you’d say no. Can you give an example?
Instead of no, I’d say unknown as I have read only a fraction of the material on genetics, race, and IQ. I would classify all of the authors I listed above as having written something that could be construed as racist. If you toss in Steve Sailer for good measure, these are the people most cited by the HBD crowd. There are other authors, such as Nicholas Wade and Steven Pinker who may fall into a different category but I believe they avoid linking IQ and race.
Another question, are there any instances you can think of in which one’s skin complexion affects one’s actions?
For someone who is healthy and has no defined abnormality such as albinism or autism? Aside from running (or not) to grab sunscreen when the sun comes out, no.
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@Lemmy
“Instead of no, I’d say unknown as I have read only a fraction of the material on genetics, race, and IQ”
Why are you conflating that with Welsing’s theories? Where did Welsing say that genetics and race had anything to do with IQ?
“Aside from running (or not) to grab sunscreen when the sun comes out, no”
An honest answer would have been, “Yes, running (or not) to grab sunscreen when the sun comes out.” So, is that a natural reaction?
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To resw77:
Why are you conflating that with Welsing’s theories?
Where did Welsing say that genetics and race had anything to do with IQ?
What? Strawman fallacy. You were the one who brought up race and IQ, I was responding to your question, so it would seem you are coming up with another of your classic diversions. You’re a smart guy Resw77 but I find your use of logical fallacies in a debate simply tedious.
An honest answer would have been, “Yes, running (or not) to grab sunscreen when the sun comes out.” So, is that a natural reaction?
What? Dude the part about the sun screen was basically a joke, although a lighter skinned person will experience a sunburn faster than a dark skinned person and hence will likely head for shade or some protection under strong sun. Conversely lighter skinned people can allegedly tolerate cold better than darker skinned people but if so it is probably not a factor of skin color but other correlated factors.
I guess what’s happening here is that you and others perceive that a white guy is attacking a black icon, because there has been no rebuttal to.the critiques of her work by SatanForce or Purusha.
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Lemmy
SatanForce called her crazy, which is not a critique of her work but simple name calling.
Purusha critiqued her melanin theory, which is not all that her work consists of.
I personally don’t see a white guy attacking a black icon, but a white guy who seems to be upset at what she says about white people, while at the same time trying to manipulate blacks into feeling as you do by using other black commenter as the basis of support for your feelings.
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To sharinalr:
Purusha critiqued her melanin theory..
The melanin theory is at the heart of much of Welsing’s work and what I found most lacking in scientific merit, and in my opinion is race pseudo-science not too dissimilar from people like Rushton and Sailer.
SatanForce called her crazy, which is not a critique of her work but simple name calling.
That’s it – multiple paragraphs of calling someone crazy?
but a white guy who seems to be upset at what she says about white people..
I’m as swayed by Welsing’s theories about melanin as I am about people who believe aliens built the pyramids of Ancient Egypt or the Mayan temples. I thought you were just goading me before, you really think I’m upset about Welsing’s theories? Most of the blacks on this board think the large majority of whites are racist, maybe they are, but I don’t see how the foundation of that racism lies with melanin outside of an identifying factor. Aside from the merits (or lack of them) of her work Welsing effectively let’s white people off the hook for racism (as their behavior is hard wired) eg the fish is going to be a fish, a lion a lion, and a white person a supremacist. And If I wanted to have more melanin I could take methoxsalen (a drug that has been around for many decades) as John Howard Griffith did in “Black Like Me”. Apparently all I have to do is pop a few tabs of methoxsalen over a few months get some rays and I’ll have plenty of rhythm and soul.
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To Kiwi:
I saw the same thing with the way Jeff Elberfeld spoke to Linda when talking about her Black friend.
So did you read Dr Welsing’s book, if so any comments about the book or any of her theories..?
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Lemmy
“The melanin theory is at the heart of much of Welsing’s work and what I found most lacking in scientific merit etc.”—-Based on much of what you presented as a source it does not show the Melanin theory as the heart of her work. Seeing as melanin has nothing to do with penis shapes, guns, or white man fear. Just because you decide that the melanin theory bothers you does not mean you get to decide it is the heart of her work.
“That’s it – multiple paragraphs of calling someone crazy?”—-He never made multiple paragraphs. I count a few one liners and I would not consider that a critque.
“I thought you were just goading me before, you really think I’m upset about Welsing’s theories?”—–Had you not been overly emotional then you would not take anything I said as goading you.
“Welsing effectively let’s white people off the hook for racism”—I don’t think so. It simply let’s black people know what they are dealing with and not to trust. If you know a lion will attack then why engage it? Why treat it as if it will change? Like all science it just gives an understanding of why? Why whites act as they do.
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To sharinlr:
Seeing as melanin has nothing to do with penis shapes, guns, or white man fear.
She ties weenies,guns, and white man’s fear to the melanin theory.
Based on much of what you presented as a source…
So, you haven’t read the book?
Why treat it as if it will change? Like all science it just gives an understanding of why? Why whites act as they do.
Yep that’s the essence, the lion is the lion and whites are natural supremacists, hard wired.
He never made multiple paragraphs I count a few one liners and I would not consider that a critique.
His post is almost 2500 words (his words not the Welsing quotes). That’s not a few one liners.
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Lemmy
“So, you haven’t read the book?”—Reading her book has nothing to do with reading the sources you presented. White man’s fear, penis, and guns are not tied to her melanin theory. Those are based on her theory of objects that symbolize their inadequacy.
“Yep that’s the essence, the lion is the lion and whites are natural supremacists, hard wired.”—They are, but that does not equal they are being let off the hook as you claimed.
“His post is almost 2500 words (his words not the Welsing quotes). That’s not a few one liners.”—–He has a total of 4 posts of this thread. None of which adds up to 2500 words, so what are you talking about? Of the 1 paragraph he made it was good riddance crazy type comment.
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To sharinlr:
He has a total of 4 posts of this thread.
Ok.. I was referring to his ping back here:
Reading her book has nothing to do with reading the sources you presented.
So you haven’t read the book? It’s over 200 pages, you can find the PDF online.
White man’s fear…
That’s the heart of her theory – she states the white man’s fear is from the thought of white genetic annihilation due to melanin from darker people overwhelming their genes (with blacks representing in her mind the darkest group hence the greatest fear..).
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Lemmy
I did not read his ping back. Nor any others You need to stop using people of color as a crutch to prove your point. It is like white people who support Don lemon or other blacks who down black people to prove their points.
“So you haven’t read the book? It’s over 200 pages, you can find the PDF online.”— You are doing the whole deflecting dance again and frankly it is childish. You presented sources of her work did you not? You claimed melanin theory was the heart of her work did you not? Yet of what you presented of her work does not show or present the idea that melanin is the heart of it. You can’t throw out her book at whim to persuade me or anyone to ignore that your claim is contradictory. Furthermore you made the claim that you have to support, but the odd thing is you supported it but the sources don’t support you. So you scream go read her book. I posted a link to her book on the ISIS paper thread.
“That’s the heart of her theory”—-So now you agree to white fear as the heart of it when posts up you say it was melanin. She states it is from genetic annihilation. The melanin part is your add.
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@Uncle Milton
When I asked if it’s “also racist to theorise a genetic reason for something positive like European IQ…” you said “often” and then backtracked. So is theorising a genetic reason for IQ the same as “having or showing the belief that a particular race is superior to another” and isn’t that what you’re accusing Welsing of doing?
“What? Dude the part about the sun screen was basically a joke, although a lighter skinned person will experience a sunburn faster than a dark skinned person”
Yet it still answers my question.Do people with least melanin in the skin behave differently than people with most melanin in the skin? And is it natural behaviour?
“I guess what’s happening here is that you and others perceive that a white guy is attacking a black icon”
No what I perceive is you attempting to discredit Welsing as a professional and label her as a racist without any basis.
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@Kiwi
It is odd to me that some of abagond’s long time white commenters are starting to show some borderline racist tendencies. Perhaps I did not pay any attention before, but a lot of them are showing themselves.
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Sharina said,
“It is odd to me that some of abagond’s long time white commenters are starting to show some borderline racist tendencies.”
That’s because racism never really go way even if you are self aware. We’re talking about a life time of programming in supremacy while simultaneously POC are being bombarded by racism and some of these become internalized and programed into their psyche’s as well. We certainly continue to receive the same privileges as any other white and I for example can have the privilege to claim to be an anarchist where most POC don’t have that option within white supremacy.
I’m regards to Dr. Frances Cress Welsing I value and respect her work even though I’m skeptical about some her theories. I’m agnostic so that directs how I break things down thus my skepticism. Her biggest critiques here on this thread are the skeptics. But Because I disagree with some things doesn’t me I dismiss everything else.The number one rule in reading books is the parsing of useful material.
I don’t see her as a racist. But the bottom line is my opinion doesn’t matter. It’s up to Black people to sort that out and I as a white male not about to tell other Blacks how to think. That’s not my place.
I do believe that white supremacy is rooted in fear. It’s also rooted in other things she didn’t cover but others have to the broaden picture.
I also thing their a natural tendency within all families that their offspring look like them. I think that’s evolutionary and hard wired. So the idea of the white race loosing its “whiteness” and fading into oblivion is a primary instinct. But I also believe this same instinct resides in all races, not just whites.
I also think their is something to her penis envy extrapolations. That’s not the only envy whites have about Blacks but it’s their.
I’m going to share a little bit about my personal earlier life and in looking back on it now I see it as gross and my actions as well as others laid the ground work for what today is described rape culture.
When I was young I road that wave of the sexual revolution coming out of the 60’s. I was having sex before their was HIV. I was average looking, comfortable talking to women, had slight charisma, so attracting women was very easy. I also was porn size and that added to my confidence. I think now if I had been born with below average I would have been to embarrassed to date much and would have settled down and my life would have been completely different.
I raised a family in an open marriage. Our children knew their parents sexual friends. Our discussions were very open and about everything most other parents would never talk about with their kids. Because of that out children were comfortable about talking to us about anything. Their were times when we would even cringe when they gave us TMI. We raised our kids a skeptics but balanced that with the idea of mutual respect and coexistence.
At some point we went our separate ways and I was back to dating. The difference now though was that getting laid was too easy and I began to understand that my actions, even though the sex was mutual, was predatory in nature. That understanding of its predatory nature wasn’t something I was cognizant of in my younger days.
So I revaluated was I was doing and started looking for a partner I could spent the rest of my life with.
Their is this infatuation with large penis’s and it does effect society in a much larger way then society realizes. I also think it can be traced back to the roots of Christianity and from their imported into white supremacy but in a negative way. Part of white fear is the stereotype that Black men can better please white women and history in part shows this in lynching’s and the myth of the pure white women stereotype. Sexual prowess perceived in Black males is also seen as connected to superior fighting skills so police officers shoot to kill because of fear based on stereo types. White supremacy can’t tolerate perceived Alpha males who are Black. That’s why the media chooses Black males who’s personalities are non threatening when they wish to add diversity to their news room.
P.S. What men don’t get. Women are all different sexually and intimacy is the language they communicate through. Some women only have vaginal orgasms, some only through penetration and some anal. Some women can bring on orgasm on with simple caress or with a certain inflection of the tone of my voice. Women are mysterious beings and should be worshipped because they are mother earth incarnate.
The sexual revolution devalued sex and porn helped objective women as things, objects and toys. Men have this idea that they must preform in a certain way to prove their masculinity with little thought about women’s needs. That’s part of the divide.
What was lost was respect for the sexual power and healing of Black women. What replaced it in the U.S. culture are materialistic white washed models that ignore and dismisses the beauty of a healthy sexual relationship found in many Black families.
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To sharinalr:
as a crutch to prove your point.
It’s not about proving my point – it’s your lack of reaction to black people saying anything negative about Dr. Welsing. In contrast a few sentences from a white person and you go to town. I get it – there are many white people who attack black icons for stupid reasons (Attacking Dr. King over alleged infidelities come to mind, when confirmed extramarital affairs of President Kennedy and Johnson were never judged in the same manner).
Yes white supremacy exists – I can agree with Dr. Welsing on that point – Does white supremacy profoundly affect black people negatively as Dr Welsing claims? Makes perfect sense. But much of her rationale about the origins and nature of white supremacy runs counter to science and history.
So now you agree to white fear as the heart of it when posts up you say it was melanin. She states it is from genetic annihilation. The melanin part is your add.
No – see the quotes below.
“If white-skinned peoples had not evolved a global system in which they established power over the world´s Non-white majority, the white collective would run the risk of white GENETIC ANNIHILATION.”
“The entire Western civilization dynamic is, fundamentally linked to, the fear of white genetic annihilation, and the need (experienced by the global white collective) for the continuous battle against the genetically dominant global majority.”
“One drop of black blood, black genetic material, makes one black!”
“The ultimate purpose of the system (white supremacy) is to prevent white genetic annihilation on Earth a planet in which the overwhelming majority of people are classified as non-white (black, brown, red and yellow) by white-skinned people. All of the non-white people are genetically dominant (in terms of skin coloration) compared to the genetically recessive white-skinned people.”
“NON-white peoples collectively constitute, the global NUMERICAL MAJORITY. This skin-pigmented GLOBAL MAJORITY is, GENETICALLY DOMINANT to the genetically recessive whites, and GENETICALLY they can ANNIHILATE the whites.”
“The white or color-deficient Europeans respond psychologically, with a profound sense of NUMERICAL INADEQUACY and color inferiority, in confrontations with the MAJORITY of the world´s people – possessed of varying degrees of color-producing capacity.
This psychological response of INADEQUACY, conscious or unconscious, based on external appearance, makes whites defensively develop an uncontrollable sense of hostility and aggression, directed towards all peoples with the capacity to produce melanin. With the most profound aggressions directed towards Black people, who have the greatest color potential and are the most envied and feared in genetic color competition.
The experience of NUMERICAL INADEQUACY and genetic color inferiority causes whites to implement a psychological defense mechanism, called “reaction formation.” A response that converts, at the psychological level, something desired and envied but wholly unattainable, into something discredited and despised.
“Whites, desiring to have skin color, but unable to attain it, claimed, consciously or unconsciously, that skin color was DISGUSTING to them, and began attributing negative qualities to color – especially to blackness. The white psyche could not confront the sense of white body shame CONSCIOUSLY.”
“The fact of color-envy must remain REPRESSED, color-desire can never be mentioned, or the entire white psychological structure collapses. While whites are saying they are superior, they UNCONSCIOUSLY feel inferior to the melanin pigmented global majority.”
You are doing the whole deflecting dance again and frankly it is childish.
Saying I am childish when you are arguing about a book you never read? Since you didn’t manage to peruse and understand The Isis Papers,there is nothing further to discuss.
Later.
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To resw77:
So is theorising a genetic reason for IQ the same as “having or showing the belief that a particular race is superior to another”
If you alter the above sentence to:
So is theorising a genetic reason for IQ based upon race the same as “having or showing the belief that a particular race is superior to another”
Then I would say yes.
and isn’t that what you’re accusing Welsing of doing?
Yes I am.
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Lemmy
“It’s not about proving my point – it’s your lack of reaction to black people saying anything negative about Dr. Welsing.”—-You should try avoid lying, so I don’t have to point out where you lie. When I first addressed you it was on her idea of white fear. You refused to address that and started talking about the melanin theory. I stated several post up I will not argue for or against the melanin theory, then proceeded to dirext back to the white fear. It was then you who decided to pull every black person you could and used them as a crutch to try and prove your point. Of the people you presented ALL of them were critiquing the Melanin theory. So yea you are using black commenter for personal gain and now are using a sorry excuse to pretend as if you are not.
“No – see the quotes below.”—-Yet you stated “That’s the heart of her theory” in response to white fear. Then pull quotes that support white fear. Then turn around and contradict yourself by saying no.
“Saying I am childish when you are arguing about a book you never read?”——I don’t remember saying I never read the book, but it is childish to throw out have you read the book when confronted with the fact that of what you presented as your shining proof, It does not support what you are claiming. All that is irrelevant and a deflection if you are making the claim. YOU provided the quotes and if you felt it would benefit could have provided the full source, but you did not. None of it takes a massive understandin to realize that.
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michaeljonbarker
I get that, but you seem self aware enough to correct yourself on certain issues and k ow when it is a borderline racist tendency. The case with Lemmy is after years and years of being here, having a big discuss on this, he immediately uses the racist tropes. Pulling out what black people say and then try to excuse that he is doing it.
“But I also believe this same instinct resides in all races, not just whites.”—-I agree with this as well. The only reason I think this fear is more open in whites is because they may not be producing as much children as non-whites. The fear of being taken over. In most cases mixing with a non-white does result in a child of darker hue. The child tends to, but not always, seek acceptance from and marry people of that darker hue. Thus making future off-spring less white. It explains greatly why whites are constantly changing who fits in the white club.
I will respond to more later. Got to run.
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@Uncle Milton
“If you alter the above sentence to: ‘So is theorising a genetic reason for IQ based upon race the same as “having or showing the belief that a particular race is superior to another’ Then I would say yes.”
So your response to my original question was “no”?
“Yes I am.”
OK, which theory of Welsing’s do you think provides a genetic reason that makes one race superior to another?
And my third time asking you: “Do people with least melanin in the skin behave differently than people with most melanin in the skin? And is it natural behaviour?”
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To resw77:
And my third time asking you: “Do people with least melanin in the skin behave differently than people with most melanin in the skin? And is it natural behaviour?”
I’ve already answered this question, so what did you not understand about my original response..? To restate my answer again – there may a different set of responses to heat and light based upon skin color. But I do not see similar patterns of behavior (IQ, passivity, aggression, etc) based upon skin color as being genetically linked. EG I don’t believe the behavior of Europeans and Northern Asians compared to say Sri Lankans and Southern Sudanese is based upon skin color. .
OK, which theory of Welsing’s do you think provides a genetic reason that makes one race superior to another?
I answered this question further up the thread with relevant quotes from Welsing, here is the link:
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To sharinalr:
I stated several post up I will not argue for or against the melanin theory
You do know that I consider her melanin theory as being the racist component of her writing?
it was on her idea of white fear. You refused to address that and started talking about the melanin theory.
Then you need to read (or more carefully read) her book since she ties white fear to genetic annihilation which is tied to people with melanin. And to her, with whites, the more melanin the greater the fear. In her mind whites reproducing with darker skinned people will eventually overwhelm white skinned people. Never mind that she gave examples that run counter to her theory.
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To resw77
And my third time asking you: “Do people with least melanin in the skin behave differently than people with most melanin in the skin? And is it natural behaviour?”
Note my response here to a question concerning genetically (and geographical) similar populations with highly divergent outcomes:
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Lemmy
“You do know that I consider her melanin theory as being the racist component of her writing?”—–That is great, but when I made my first post to you that is not what was addressed in it. Which was why when you attempted to deflect by screaming Melanin theory, I had to make it clear I was not arguing for or against it. So whether you consider it a racist component means nothing.
“Then you need to read (or more carefully read) her book since she ties white fear to genetic annihilation which is tied to people with melanin.”—-The fear of genetic annihilation is the heart of her theory. The fear so happens to be from people with more melanin. Even in your attempt to wiggle out of your unproven claim, you are backtracking to what was already said earlier. The melanin idea is an afterthought to the basis of her theory, which is white fear. Me reading it (reading it more) won’t change the fact that nothing you provided supports what you claim.
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that magic melanin thing sounds like prions ie orgone theory
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_Reich
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@Lemmy
“I’ve already answered this question”
You didn’t previously answer the question, “is the behavior natural” Not once.
“there may a different set of responses to heat and light based upon skin color”
May? You already said “a lighter skinned person will experience a sunburn faster than a dark skinned person and hence will likely head for shade or some protection under strong sun.” Why are you trying to backtrack now
“But I do not see similar patterns of behavior (IQ, passivity, aggression, etc) based upon skin color as being genetically linked”
Well that’s not what I asked you, respectfully. I asked if the behaviour was natural. You have already said how people with least and most melanin in the skin behave differently in the sun. Is this behaviour natural?
“I answered this question further up the thread with relevant quotes from Welsing, here is the link:”
Forgive me because I don’t see anything of the sort. Who does Welsing say is superior and how are they superior?
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To resw77:
Why are you trying to backtrack now….You have already said how people with least and most melanin in the skin behave differently in the sun. Is this behaviour natural?
Because after reflection, I think it is more likely to be a conditioned or learned response.
You didn’t previously answer the question, “is the behavior natural” Not once. …Well that’s not what I asked you, respectfully. I asked if the behaviour was natural.
Could you define then what you mean by natural here, as apparently I did not understand.
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To sharinalr:
The melanin idea is an afterthought to the basis of her theory, which is white fear.
You don’t have to accept my interpretation however others reflect the same thinking, perhaps Abagond could clarify:
Her main idea:
“The white global collective remains genetically recessive to the black, brown, red and yellow global majority and lives each day and each minute of every hour in the continuous fear of white annihilation by the global majority of genetic dominants. This fundamental fear of albino isolation, abandonment and genetic annihilation is at the core of Western civilization – a civilization structured to ensure white genetic survival.”
http://www.blackhistorymonth.org.uk/article/section/bhm-intros/frances-cress-welsing-melanin-theory/
In her most recited piece of work; The Isis Papers, comes Welsing’s most famous theory; Melanin Theory.
The theory originates around the concept that white people are the genetically defective descendants of albino mutants. Welsing also states that because of this “defective” mutation, they may have been forcibly expelled from Africa, explaining the journey many humans took, out from Africa and into the rest of the world. For White people, their journey out of Africa took them into modern Europe.
This notion is further developed into addressing White Supremacy, by stating that because it is so easy for ‘pure’ whiteness to be genetically lost during interracial mixing, White-skinned people developed an aggressive colonial urge to protect this mutation, creating dominating societies over all others, particularly through military force at the cost of any coloured societies development.
Welsing ascribes certain inherent and behavioural differences between Black and White people to a “melanin deficiency” in white people.
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Lemmy
And once again you use some black person or black crutch to try to make your interpretation more credible. But why not quote the part where a bag on said her “main ideas” meaning she had more than one. Yet her ideas do not translate to the heart (your words) of her point. Which is white fear.
If we look closely at all that was said in your second source, it states melanin theory for a hot minute then goes on to speak on white fear. Even in what you highlighted makes that a clear cut case that her melanin theory is an afterthought to the more developed theory of white fear.
Any other black person or magazine you want to trot out thinkinf it will make a more sound judgement for you? Imagining in their works that it says or proves what it does not.
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But why not quote the part where abagond said her “main ideas” meaning she had more than one.
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To sharinalr:
But why not quote the part where abagond said her “main ideas” meaning she had more than one.
Because our last few exchanges were debating whether Welsing thought that white fear was caused by genetic annihilation from people with more melanin which you claim is not the case. It is not a tangential notion or afterthought, it core to her thesis, Abagond understood this, that’s why he highlighted it as Her main idea.
And once again you use some black person
Sure, they read and comprehended her book. Would you rather I find a white person to give their view?
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To resw77:
Is this behaviour natural?
Natural behavior can be learned behavior (social conditioning etc).
For example someone would likely be surprised if they see someone nude walking in a parking lot to a grocery store. One might say it is a natural reaction to be surprised when seeing someone nude in public (at least in the previous context) whereas there are events and societies where nudity is the norm – so a surprised reaction in that case would not be natural.
But natural can also conceivably refer to genetics – eg nature vs. nurture.
Is this what you mean by natural behavior?
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Lemmy
“Because our last few exchanges were debating whether Welsing thought that white fear was caused by genetic annihilation from people with more melanin which you claim is not the …” That is not my claim. I am refuting the fact that you keep saying the melanin theory is the heart of her research.
“t is not a tangential notion or afterthought, it core to her thesis, Abagond understood this, that’s why he highlighted it as Her main idea.”—-He could have highlighted it for several reasons, but you can’t have several main ideas. Plus all of her ideas trace back to white fear. Very little can or does trace back to the melanin theory.
“Sure, they read and comprehended her book. Would you rather I find a white person to give their view?”—-In the time it tale you to find another token black person or some random white person you could have actually proved your case.
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Please. No more supporting this silliness. While we all agree that it is impossible for blacks to be racist (what are we to do whites, cut them off in traffic?), that doesn’t mean that Cress-Welsing wrote a bunch of damn nonsense.
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Wow, she’s worse than I thought! How the hell could Abagond take Welsing’s crazy nonsense seriously? Satanforce, I thought you were a run-of-the-mill idiot, but your take down of Welsing’s nonsense has changed my mind. Shame on Abagond for promoting such stupidities. Sharinalr, please state what you found of value in Welsing’s rubbish?
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@Lemmy
“Because after reflection, I think it is more likely to be a conditioned or learned response”
So if your skin is damaged, in this case burned by the sun, does that send a neurological impulse to the brain?
“Could you define then what you mean by natural here”
The dictionary definition, “existing in or caused by nature.” Perhaps applying sunscreen or seeking shade is learned, but is protecting oneself from harm also conditioned or learned?
And for the 2nd time, “Who does Welsing say is superior and how are they superior?”
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To resw77:
And for the 2nd time, “Who does Welsing say is superior and how are they superior?”
The IQ researchers Rushton and Jensen made it plain that they thought IQ was tied to race and that whites had a higher IQ than blacks. Similarly Rushton thought that blacks were more prone to crime than whites, once again on a genetic basis. However, Rushton on more than one occasion said he did not believe in the superiority of one race over another, yet by implicit association by tying negative and positive properties tied to race (via genetics) the idea conveyed is that one group is superior to another. I agree that Rushton and Jensen wrote papers that were racist, applying the same metric to Welsing I come to the same conclusion since she describes whites as genetically deficient, prone to aggression (prone to evil) with a muted emotional responses in comparison to blacks and other non-white people.
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@Lemmy
Where does Welsing say whites are “genetically deficient, prone to aggression (prone to evil) with a muted emotional responses”
And for the second time, “So if your skin is damaged, in this case burned by the sun, does that send a neurological impulse to the brain?” and “is protecting oneself from harm also conditioned or learned?”
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To resw77:
Where does Welsing say whites are ….. prone to aggression (prone to evil) with a muted emotional responses”
In her essay “The Neurochemical basis for evil”
http://www.assatashakur.org/forum/breaking-down-understanding-our-enemies/1313-neurochemical-basis-evil.html
I quoted the relevant passages in bold in a previous comment.
Where does Welsing say whites are “genetically deficient
I believe she first used the term in the essay “The Cress Theory of Color-Confrontation and Racism (White Supremacy)” but she repeated it elsewhere in her book and in interviews.
Reference page 183 of the Isis Papers but can also be viewed on page 4 of the linked PDF below:
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/00064246.1974.11431416
And for the second time
Yes I saw the question I’ll get to it later today or tomorrow.
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@ Lemmy
Her main idea is not racist:
Whites have pinned their identity on genetically recessive traits. All else follows from that. It is Whites who have painted themselves into a corner. All of their strange behaviour is in reaction to that. That is her main point.
If you want to miss her point because she said something possibly racist elsewhere, then you may as well throw out the Gettysburg Address and the Declaration of Independence too while you are at it, since Lincoln and Jefferson certainly would not pass your ideological purity test either. Neither would Darwin.
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Abagond,
Her main idea …
Sharinalr and I have been having a debate separate from the issue of racism (multiple posts on the issue):
As I understand Welsing (and I believe as you understand her) white fear is caused by the notion of genetic annihilation which she attributes to genetic deficiency in whites from a lack of melanin (in skin and eyes) and that hate towards blacks is highest since they possess the most melanin of all the races. Hence melanin theory (or color confrontation) is not an after thought to white fear as Sharina suggests but it is the root cause. Or do you disagree?
Here are sharinalr’s comments:
“Even in what you highlighted makes that a clear cut case that her melanin theory is an afterthought to the more developed theory of white fear.”
My comments:
“Because our last few exchanges were debating whether Welsing thought that white fear was caused by genetic annihilation from people with more melanin which you claim is not the case. It is not a tangential notion or afterthought, it core to her thesis, Abagond understood this, that’s why he highlighted it as Her main idea”
I will respond to your other comments but it will take a few days.
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@Lemmy
What you quoted from Welsing is not nearly the same as “whites are ‘genetically deficient, prone to aggression (prone to evil) with a muted emotional responses.’” As you know, that is your own interpretation.
Is there somewhere she actually said what you alleged?
And I look forward to your responses to my other questions.
@abagond
“Whites have pinned their identity on genetically recessive traits. All else follows from that.”
That’s brilliant.
In effect, Welsing offers a reason why “whites have pinned their identity on genetically recessive traits.” If another behavioural scientist has a better reason, I’d love to hear it. Instead we get critics who pretend to be blind to this behaviour, like Lemmy who chose to completely ignore it.
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resw77
Let’s be honest….who wants to acknowledge they fear anything and anyone when they have put forth the charade that they are on top?
We are not getting this behavior towards other groups that they consider white, but towards non-whites. The behavior increasing more so towards black people. Now I don’t believe in melanin envy and white people being albinos, but take all that away and her theory boils down to the one thing. White fear of other.
Most whites realise this, but it is easy to side track people if you paint it as crazy theories.
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@sharinalr
“Let’s be honest….who wants to acknowledge they fear anything and anyone when they have put forth the charade that they are on top?”
That’s a good point. No, I don’t expect it, but I do expect them to be unable to evade the double standards in their arguments.
“Now I don’t believe in melanin envy and white people being albinos, but take all that away and her theory boils down to the one thing. White fear of other.”
Well I don’t see how one can take melanin out of the equation. It was whites who created a false racial identity, superiority system and segregation programme based on skin complexion, which we know by now to be a product of melanocyte production. So it makes not logical for Welsing to exclude melanin from her behaviour analysis.
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