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Whites who fear blacks are racist

Whites who fear blacks are racist. The statement almost proves itself. Because they are not fearing honest-to-God robbers, murderers, rapists, scam artists and so on, the very people who would hurt them, white or black or whatever, but just black people. It should be laughable but too many Americans take it seriously.

Whites and other non-blacks I have asked about this fear all say the same thing: the black crime rate is much higher.

At first I believed that. But then I started noticing stuff. Like how they had no trouble going to Chinatown or Midtown Manhattan and yet feared missing their subway stop and winding up in Harlem. As if the part of Harlem they would wind up in had a way higher crime rate. It did not: it just had way more black people.

I tested this. Downtown Harlem and Chinatown at the time had about the same crime rate. I walked down 125th Street in Harlem: 5% white. I walked down Canal Street in Chinatown: 40% white.

Whites were not afraid of crime: they were afraid of black people!

You see this in the way they twist crime statistics. Even when you untwist them, they quickly find some other way to twist them back. Which shows their fears were never based on the numbers to begin with – they just use those numbers as a fig leaf to cover their racism.

Or take white flight: whites say it is caused by black crime. I have lived in two such places 30 to 40 years after whites left: One was extremely violent and the other was the safest place I have ever lived, safer than any white or mixed neighbourhood I have ever lived in.

You got to take neighbourhoods and people case by case. To judge them simply by their race is racist. It is nuts that I even have to say that.

Another common trope is Blacks Beat Me Up In High School. Wow. Whites jumped me and beat me up just because of how I looked. Should I then fear whites in general? Does that even make sense?

The black murder rate in America is like 6 to 7 times higher than the white one. I am not denying that. But again that is hardly a reason for whites to fear blacks since blacks mainly kill other blacks.

According to the FBI numbers for America in 2009 where the race of the murderer and murdered were known:

  • 2963 white-on-white murders
  • 2604 black-on-black murders
  • 454 black-on-white murders
  • 209 white-on-black murders

Just to compare, the number of Americans struck by lightning every year: 360.

A white person is 6.5 times more likely to be killed by another white. Even if this was achieved by whites avoiding blacks, then whites are 6.5 times more afraid of blacks than they should be.

White fear is not based on fact. It is based on stereotypes and on the fear that blacks want revenge, a fear as old as slave days.

See also:

657 Responses

  1. I live in a predominantly white area. In fact, the part of the country I live in is pretty darn white. I should fear white people more than black people.

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  2. @abagond.

    absolutely right.

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  3. When I worked as a social worker in Appalachia, I noticed that my white coworkers were constantly assigned to the “criks” (creeks) and “hollers” (hollows). This infuriated them to no end because every time they were assigned a case out in the hills, they were certain it would be their last. They were extremely annoyed that our superiors assumed they’d be safe out there, just because they too were white. In fact, right before I was hired, a female SW was raped & bludgeoned in the neighboring county. The family then stuffed her in her car and set it on fire.

    This led to every white SW requesting to be reassigned to the “ghetto” because they felt perfectly safe there.

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  4. on Sat 7 Apr 2012 at 16:40:01 grin and bear it

    Exactly. These people walk around spouting murder statistics as if every black person in America spends every waking moment of their day committing a random homicide. Never mind that most victims of crime actually have some sort of relationship or acquaintance with their assailant. Never mind that murder rates have actually decreased over the last 4 or 5 years (source: Uniform Crime Reports, FBI/DOJ). Never mind that instances of murder are relatively rare, and amount to less than 1/10 of 1% of all crimes committed. Never mind that, numerically speaking, whites still commit most of the crime in the United States — including rape and murder.

    What’s most baffling to me, though, is how they justify it because of supposed (inherent) black pathologies — our violent natures, our limited brain capacity, loose morals, or our single-parent, welfare cheating families. But if that’s the case, how do they account for white crime rates? If whites are these perfect people who come from these perfect worlds, how do they account for white criminality? Is it something they do for kicks, something to do on a Friday night just because? If that’s the case, then who’s really the pathological ones?

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  5. How do they account for the fact that they commit crimes on a macro scale while Blacks commit crime on a micro scale? I would be more afraid of the person who would steal my land and slaughter a whole other people than someone who steals my wallet and murders their own. Just shows the lunacy of this mindset.

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  6. on Sat 7 Apr 2012 at 18:27:50 jackrabbit96707

    For most non-Blacks their main exposure to Black people is through the Media. The Media focuses on 1) Black Athletes, 2) Black Entertainers and 3) Black Criminals. Usually the stories about Black Athletes are either about them being deadbeat Dads to their multiple children with multiple women or about being arrested. Most Black Entertainers make their money by glorifying Black street culture and Black criminals are Black criminals. Years ago I worked for a Black guy who had immigrated to America from Nigeria and he honestly thought a significant percentage of Black Americans were lazy criminals.

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  7. how do they account for white crime rates?

    They don’t because they don’t talk about it.

    I would be more afraid of the person who would steal my land and slaughter a whole other people than someone who steals my wallet and murders their own. Just shows the lunacy of this mindset.

    Like I said…they don’t talk about it. And by that same lunacy, if you don’t talk it about it, then it doesn’t exist, it never happened, and thus it’s not a problem.

    So by all means, let them buy their guns in record numbers and continue to self-segregate.

    Their own pathologies will be the end of them.

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  8. @ jackrabbit
    Africans shouldn’t buy into ANY stereotypes. Aren’t they the first to tell you that Africa is not protruding bellies, flies over the eyes, starving, drought famished, child soldiers, cut clitorises,voodoo against albinos, malaria ridden and whatever else the White media tries to tell people. But they will gobble up stereotypes about others? Solidarity is their worst nightmare. People need to start engaging in it.

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  9. How do they account for the fact that they commit crimes on a macro scale while Blacks commit crime on a micro scale?

    They can’t. That is why they resort to this type of strategy which is designed to denigrate, debase and deflate black folk. It makes them feel good about themselves, plus they have the added bonus of justifying their racism against blacks. They can then formulate counter-arguments designed to shut up the offending negro. Unfortunately it works oftentimes. You either become angry, but can’t counter their argument, are struck mute or curse them out, proving you are a dumb negro after all(I couldn’t care less, cussin is an art, poetry to my ears!). The ones that argue effectively are seen as dangerous, and will be targeted in some way shape or action. This refers to the whites who are consciously racist. The other clueless ones couldn’t care less as blacks are not in their purview. In any case, they are fcuked which ever way you look at it for the most part.

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  10. “So by all means, let them buy their guns in record numbers and continue to self-segregate.”

    I luvs mah guns. Loves mah guns! LOL!!
    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9l_hNrkmpyc)

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  11. Herneith,

    I’m starting to take a nihilistic view of some of these people as well. It’s hard to remain optimistic for them in the face of so much latent and obvious hatred. They are their own worse enemies. They have a tenuous hold on society and without their whiteness to define them, I fear they will have a collective psychological break down. Try to take us all with them as they become more and more of a global minority. They have the kind of mentality that would try to destroy the Earth rather than let Black/Brown people reclaim their rightful places in Earth’s increasingly global society.

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  12. By the way, how do you guys do that little italicized thing-y or the big quotation marks with quote thing-y??

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  13. At Front of quote. at the end of quote.

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  14. Italics:

    <i>blah blah blah blah </i>

    <blockquote>

    blah blah blah blah

    </blockquote>

    bold:

    <b>blah blah blah blah </b>

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  15. Ahhhh! Thank you guys!

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  16. Let’s see if this works

    Dr. Watson is a negro

    Dr. Watson is a negro

    Dr. Watson is a White negro

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  17. Hmmm everything but the strike out worked. Cool, thanks guys!

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  18. ” I would be more afraid of the person who would steal my land and slaughter a whole other people than someone who steals my wallet and murders their own.”

    True dat.

    I like to say this (to myself in my head, ’cause I’ve never said it aloud)

    We may steal, but we’ve never stolen an entire hemisphere. We may kill, but we’ve never collectively been responsbile for mass genocides (okay, I must admit there are some exceptions such as in Rwanda). We may not all be geniuses, but we’ve never collectively been the driving force behind total destruction of the planet.

    One thing I think about civilization, that I’ve noticed, is that it’s judged worthy because it’s complex and leaves an archaeological record that can more easily ( I think) be interpreted by future civilizations. Ultimately, what makes a civilization so brilliant in the minds of others is that it seems, temporarily, to subdue or surpass life’s natural and wild order. Large monuments that must be maintained, roads and fields that must constantly be rigidly held lest wild life takes them over again, and thousands of species (and humans) displaced, killed, enslaved, tortured, with a legacy that leaves behind land that is largely unfertile, difficult or impossible to inhabit.

    Two examples of this would be the “rocky, craggy” image we have of Greece as a naturally arid and sandy region. In fact, it used to be covered with forests thousands of years ago. And then agriculture happened. If you youtube a video interview of Derrick Jensen or Lierre Keith, you can find out some more very interesting ideas on this link between agriculture, enslavement, and land destruction. A second example of this can be found with Chernobyl. I’m guessing the animals and plants seem to be okay (although I’m unsure if humans are running tests), but it’s almost completely uninhabited by humans.

    I am a child of civilization, and I greatly enjoy all the fun stuff civilization has to offer me (I was raised in the cities, so I don’t know what farm life would be like). I read and write, don’t worry about food production, am close to art and knowledge centers. Of course, most of this is made possibly by cheap fossil energy, and I assume civilizations of the past would not have been filled with so much opportunity, art, and leisure.

    All of this rambling comment is to say: when people talk about the “great” civilizations of Europe and White America, and lament on how ‘unintelligent’ Blacks and Natives are, the question is – are they talking about intelligence, or a dangerous, life destroying mental pathology? Isn’t there a saying that goes, “you should never confuse genius with insanity?”

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  19. Abagond:

    Whites have a much better chance of walking thru “The Hood” and not being shot or stabbed, compared to a black person doing the same in a white neighborhood. Black people don’t bother whites who live in or pass thru the neighborhood, based on personal observation. Yes, some black thugs target whites for robbery and other crimes, but it’s so miniscule in comparison. We don’t fear whites like they fear us. They fear criminal-minded black males. The crime issue is where white folk run into trouble. Blackmen like myself, Abagond, and other like-minded brothas are feared by whites, but they condone the actions of criminal blackmen at the same time, What Gives? They don’t really fear the other type of blackmen, because, they’re not the intended victims of their wickedness. Whites can keep them under control by way of law enforcement. Blackmen know that they will be severely punished for targeting whites, especially white females. As to the issue of white flight, it’s more sexual in nature than criminal. The idea of young black males bumping into white females on a daily basis scares the hell out of white folk, especially whitemen. Whitemen can’t allow that to happen. This issue has been relevant in the minds of whitemen since slavery. Truth be told, the dilemma of black male sexuality in relation to non-black women plays a large part in the continued oppression of blackmen on this planet. If and when blackmen get it together, whitemen and other men have a lot to think about. Keeping blackmen on the bottom benefits men of other races. Blackwomen, and women in general gain nothing from the continued mental enslavement of black males around the globe…Bottomline! This battle is about blackmen and non-black men fighting with each other for money, power, and women. Women get caught up in the madness that takes place. It’s important that blackwomen know the real story, so as to avoid the arrows that may come their way.

    Tyrone
    MindScape

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  20. And now for my originally intended comment, because I got sidetracked above.

    Thoughts on white fear: Is it is partially because they have this constructed viewpoint of themselves being “the norm”, and having that challenged when they are no-longer “the norm”? Their culture, appearance, dialects, politics, knowledge, are no longer the norm in a predominantly Black neighborhood. It must be extremely disconcerting to some.

    I also have to say, about the comment of Whites fearing Blacks “want revenge”, that I actually do want revenge. That doesn’t mean I’m going to ACT in a vengeful way. I don’t think that’s the solution, and my heart knows it’s wrong. But yes, I do become enraged. I am not just “disproving” or “quietly angry”. I don’t want to have “dialogue” in a manner that is designed to soothe whites without actually changing anything significant, like collective distribution of pay and production benefits.

    I think what whites fear most is that many of them know, on some deep buried level, that if they were in our position, they would feel a murderous rage. In fact, because they are accustomed to receiving the best treatment (on a collective, not individual level), if this started happening suddenly today, they might (again, I’m talking about trends, not individual people) react with violence and murder, simply because they would be incensed. Sort of like, “how DARE you? I’ll teach YOU to give me the respect I’m due!”

    And of course, they are due respect, consideration, inclusion, and celebration – but not at the expense of others. I think on a level that is so buried it’s in their deep-subconscious, they are aware of the violence, and the THREATENED violence, it takes to keep a system going that they receive collective privileges from. More so, many must know, again subconsciously, that Black rage is justified. Wanda Sykes said it best when she quipped [and I’m paraphrasing], “What you’re afraid of isn’t called reverse racism. What you’re afraid of is called karma.”

    What I think they don’t know is that most of us would prefer simple equality rather than reverse-oppression. Although to actually work towards that would put them in a position of vulnerability, and I think it can seem preferable for whites to seek out reasons to avoid this, such as the idea of self defense.

    I must also add that my opinions are not because I think Whites are some separate people who are more dishonorable than others by nature, but because I experience these same thoughts and emotions in my own life, whether it be my own internalized racism cropping up, my Black rage at injustice, the two worlds I walk in as a medium skinned, first world, white-sounding and somewhat privileged Black Jew, or my desire to avoid admitting wrongdoing when I’ve acted like a jerk to friends, etc…

    I will also say, finally, that I feel scared in white neighborhoods. It’s a different fear from walking in Black neighborhoods, it’s the fear of being accused. It’s a fear I feel when I walk into stores and make sure to keep my hands in view, and have tension in my stomach.

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  21. @ darqbeauty

    Africans shouldn’t buy into ANY stereotypes.

    Solidarity is their worst nightmare.

    You’re entitled to your opinion.
    jackrabbit96707 ‘s example is just one example of one African guy. There are more than one billion of us out there.
    And like African Americans and everybody else, we are individuals with a huge range of opinions pertaining to the world around us.
    When you extrapolate, from jackrabbit96707’s example, that we “gobble up stereotypes about others” you are, well, stereotyping.

    What is your worst nightmare?

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  22. I think there is a disconnect to reality about race in white America

    Its like talking to a creationist about Darwin, or the right to abortion to a fanatical christian. They come up with robotic stiff mantras, dont really take the time to really get to know black people , except of course thier best freinds they play basketball with

    So much denial about the past…

    And, I beleive Brothawolf said once, that black people can be bigoted or biased , but not racist. I agree with that. You cant be racist back peddling

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  23. Tyrone:

    Black people don’t bother whites who live in or pass thru the neighborhood, based on personal observation.

    Unfortunately that has not been my experience when I lived or passed through Black and/or Mixed neighborhoods. Assaults, burglaries, and robberies are much more common than murder. In the last decade I and people I know have been assaulted by Black men in 7 separate incidents (5 of which required treatment at a hospital…) in 4 different cities The numbers for murder do not tell the story.

    I certainly didn’t fear the nice old ladies who lived across the street, nor the man who rushed up and prevented a scaffold from falling on top of me when I foolishly tried to move it myself, nor the fellow who I would hire on occasion for odd jobs around my house, nor my plumber, nor the guys who were almost always playing Jazz a few houses down. – all of these people are/were Black. But unfortunately.. there were Black people.. almost always male and predominantly under 30 who would threaten me, spit at me, make signs like they were pulling a gun to shoot me, and one day attacked me (more than one..) in an incident that put me in the hospital and left permanent scars. Most assuredly the thugs were not the majority of Black people that I dealt with.. but they were enough to drive me away.

    Of course I have had unpleasant encounters with White people. I used to enjoy seeing live bands in SF in the 90s but for some reason I had plenty of younger drunk White guys hassling me (Likely because I am rather tall..) so I stopped going. I was never attacked but I was shoved on a few occasions or obviously insulted in a manner that I knew that these idiots were trying to provoke a fight. My reaction was to stop going to these venues so I wouldn’t have to be around these cretins. These guys were in the minority at these venues.. but their attitudes and actions were enough such that I now avoid their type when possible.

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  24. @B.R.

    All human beings are biased, because, all people, groups, and races have selfish motives involved. That’s not anything to get bent out of shape about, just saying. Racism is about having mental and physical control over another group of people for financial and personal gain. As black people, we’ve wrongly assumed that white racism has always been about the physical. Color plays a small part in the construct of white racism. Power and control is the issue. As duly noted, black folk can’t be racist because we have power over no one but ourselves. If black folk ran the world, i don’t think whites and others would have anything to worry about anyway. Black people are too obsessed with themselves to waste time trying to keep another group of people down, that’s how i see it.

    Tyrone
    MindScape

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  25. Yes ,Tyrone , I agree with what you are saying about “all human beings are biased”. It was a statement by Brothawolf , to differentiete white racism and that black people cant be racist because white people invented it, and I agree with that

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  26. Evening folks
    My family’s here so I’ll make this quick…( Sweetbread in the oven)
    Whites who fear blacks are simply acting out of projection.
    They know deep down ( they deny this) that if they were in our shoes, they’d seek revenge on us for the decades of injustice.

    So what do they do?
    Hate and fear us for something they would, and did, do.

    Happy Easter folks…

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  27. Whites just can’t seem to stop themselves from whipping out that “violence card.”

    http://nytimes.com/2012/04/06/opinion/playing-the-violence-card.xml

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  28. @ Dahoman X

    You’re absolutely correct. I should have acknowledged the fact that it was just one mans opinion. And MY worst nightmare? That this madness continues unabated.

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  29. To Mamzer HaKodesh:

    I will also say, finally, that I feel scared in white neighborhoods. It’s a different fear from walking in Black neighborhoods, it’s the fear of being accused. It’s a fear I feel when I walk into stores and make sure to keep my hands in view, and have tension in my stomach.

    Sorry to hear that and understandable (your reaction..).. I seem to make Asians nervous when I walk around in my neighborhood.. (I’m a pretty big White guy..they cross the street, avoid eye contact) although I don’t really feel nervous about being accused of anything any more (age 50 now..) but I still occasionally get stopped by police when I take late night or early morning walks.

    I walk in as a medium skinned, first world, white-sounding and somewhat privileged Black Jew..

    Chag kashruth pesak.
    Happy Kosher Passover.

    Wanda Sykes said it best when she quipped [and I’m paraphrasing], “What you’re afraid of isn’t called reverse racism. What you’re afraid of is called karma.”

    FWIW, The Eastern concept of Karma applies to an individual’s actions not that of the group nor that of members of the group in the past, likewise being a member of a group where some are good does not mean an individual within that group can achieve Nirvana or Enlightenment. Not sure what Ms. Sykes meant with that comment.

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  30. Abagond wrote:

    “White fear is not based on fact. It is based on stereotypes and on the fear that blacks want revenge, a fear as old as slave days.”

    ***************************

    Would you be referring to fears like the ludicrous statement (regarding blacks HOLDING BACK whites) contained in this post –
    https://abagond.wordpress.com/2012/04/04/the-white-racist-guide-to-black-crime/#comment-122453

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  31. “Not sure what Ms. Sykes meant with that comment.”

    *******************************
    – what goes around comes around
    – planting and harvesting
    – sowing and reaping
    – divine justice
    – chickens coming home to roost
    – universal (if not Eastern) KARMA
    – etc ….

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  32. @Uncle Milton – thanks for the reply!

    Just to clarify on karma, I think most people have not studied Eastern religions and do not have a clear understanding of karma, and I don’t either. The way most see it is in the sense Matari described. Or the idea that if you do good or bad, good or bad will return to you. This can be on an individual level, but also on a collective level; for example, if a whole category of people linked by race, sex, sexuality, hair color, extra fingers, etc… enjoy privileges at the expense of others, they fear the backswing of it.

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  33. @Abagond
    I agree with this article. Yes, Whites really do fear Blacks. My pals and I sat down at lunchand spoke about this very same topic. Yeah she told me that she was watching an documentary on a biracial kid and his White family members said he was fine because he was only half Black. And they told him that they were afraid of Blacks because they have guns to shoot them or crap like that. My pal was wondering why they thought Blacks were so violent when Whites were so violent to Blacks, Native Americans and others in history.
    ”White” fear of Blacks doesn’t apply to all Whites but MANY. NOT ALL Whites are sterotypical and racist. We have sterotypical and racist people in all races and enthicities.
    @Truthbetold
    You have a point however for the most part, us Black people aren’t revenguful people. Most of us forgive and forget. But we have some crazy, looney racist Blacks out there who wants to get back at the White man for all the injustices i the world.
    Crazy, huh? That is why people all around the world should work together to stop racism and get along and world together as Brothas and Sistas that Christ intended for us to be.

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  34. Another great post!

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  35. If I decided how I should feel about White people based upon how I was treated by them in school I should be downright terrified to be around them. However, I am not because, unlike racists, I do not see each group of people as homogeneous masses. I do not see White people (or any other race of people) as indistinguishable from one another and assume they are all identical.

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  36. on Sun 8 Apr 2012 at 03:10:38 grin and bear it

    Speaking of pathologies and random murders

    My heart and prayers go out to the victims and their loved ones. Is it me or is this kind of thing happening with greater regularity? When is it going to stop?

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  37. Where do I begin with this shmorgishborg of knowledge:

    Whites and other non-blacks I have asked about this fear all say the same thing: the black crime rate is much higher.

    To me this like saying that black people are the leaders of crime and violence in the free world. That pisses me off to no end.

    You see this in the way they twist crime statistics. Even when you untwist them, they quickly find some other way to twist them back. Which shows their fears were never based on the numbers to begin with – they just use those numbers as a fig leaf to cover their racism.

    I think it’s lazy to rely on statistics alone especially if they’ve been “calculated” for you by some racist nutcase and are memorized verbatim by loyal mindless and heartless followers. If the stats illustrate that there are many blacks in prison, then the usual reason that follows is always “it’s because they commit the most crimes.” That is an idiotic response. Yet, many people believe it without question.

    Stats don’t tell the whole story let alone a shred of the story. And, numbers can be fixed to suit racist assumptions about a group of people.

    Another common trope is Blacks Beat Me Up In High School. Wow. Whites jumped me and beat me up just because of how I looked. Should I then fear whites in general? Does that even make sense?

    But if black people got beaten up by whites, white people would either call that whining or assume that the black person provoked it.

    Anyway, whenever I read this, I think of three things:

    1. A past incident by a group of blacks whose numbers are minuscule to the population of tens of millions is enough to hate those millions?

    3. Did they leave out certain bits of information to make their argument plausible like provoking the attack in the first place?

    2. Did it really happen, or was it a convenient excuse they just thought of to bring up during a conversation of race to justify in the saddest way why they hate and fear blacks? It makes me wonder if it really happened or not. Remember Susan Smith? Nuff said.

    The black murder rate in America is like 6 to 7 times higher than the white one. I am not denying that. But again that is hardly a reason for whites to fear blacks since blacks mainly kill other blacks.

    And most of the people who are not only genuinely concerned by this fact but are doing something about it, are mostly blacks. They are doing something while these people sit on their fat asses and complain. In truth they are part of the problem, not the solution.

    White fear is not based on fact. It is based on stereotypes and on the fear that blacks want revenge, a fear as old as slave days.

    Like I always say, whiteness is never based on logic or fact, but raw emotion, usually corrupt emotion.

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  38. If I see a pit bull I’ll walk the other way. I know pit bulls can be nice dogs however, it is fact that you have a higher likelihood of getting attacked by a pit bull than another kind of dog.

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  39. Is Brahms saying that black people are like pit bulls?

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  40. brothawolf

    Pitbulls have a higher incidence of attacking humans than other dogs and blacks have a higher incidence of attacking whites than other races; ergo, my chances are higher of getting attacked if I come upon a pitbull or a black vs an asian or a great dane. Facts are facts.

    Here’s an example of how silly Abagond is: he writes,

    “A white person is 6.5 times more likely to be killed by another white. Even if this was achieved by whites avoiding blacks, then whites are 6.5 times more afraid of blacks than they should be.”

    As has been pointed out numerous times – its the chance, all things being equal, of getting killed by a black or by a white. For example, if I was out walking and passed by 50 people (all black) one evening compared to another
    night where I passed by only whites (50); my chances of getting killed are much much higher on the black night. This is fact and I cannot understand the reticence to deal with it. Well, I do understand actually, why should a normal, upstanding black citizen have to deal with this crap? He shouldn’t but don’t look at me, look at your brothers.

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  41. Anyone have anything to say about John Derbyshire? He fits quite well with this post.

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  42. leigh
    “I live in a predominantly white area. In fact, the part of the country I live in is pretty darn white. I should fear white people more than black people.”

    I’m beginning to understand why people are having such a hard time with my ideas – they require just a tiny bit of reflection.

    Yes Leigh, you have a higher chance of facing violence from a white. However, if you were walking home alone at night and 5 white men are walking towards you on your side of the street while 5 black men are walking towards you from behind…..statistics say you should walk faster.

    Until decent black people stand to up to the racist mindset of “keeping it real”, there is no hope. What does “keeping it real” mean? Do you know?

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  43. @brahms:

    Since you like so much the statistics let me repeat this one for you:

    According to the FBI numbers for America in 2009 where the race of the murderer and murdered were known:

    2963 white-on-white murders
    2604 black-on-black murders
    454 black-on-white murders
    209 white-on-black murders

    If you are going to be murdered, it is more likely to be a white murderer. Period. Many times more likely. And that is the FBI who says so. Or are you claiming that FBI is infiltrated by commies, race traitors, leftist liberals, negroes and all sorts of white hating folks, who just want to falsify statistics?

    Grow up, man. If you do not like black people, you don’t. If you are racist, be a racist. Don’t spend your days fiddling these ridicilous number games when they are obviously wrong time and time again. Or are you not sure about your stance? Do you need these funny fake stats to keep you going on hating blacks and commies and others? If you do, then you really have to man up.

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  44. Derbyshire

    (9) A small cohort of blacks—in my experience, around five percent—is ferociously hostile to whites and will go to great lengths to inconvenience or harm us. A much larger cohort of blacks—around half—will go along passively if the five percent take leadership in some event. They will do this out of racial solidarity, the natural willingness of most human beings to be led, and a vague feeling that whites have it coming.

    (10) Thus, while always attentive to the particular qualities of individuals, on the many occasions where you have nothing to guide you but knowledge of those mean differences, use statistical common sense:

    (10a) Avoid concentrations of blacks not all known to you personally.

    (10b) Stay out of heavily black neighborhoods.

    (10c) If planning a trip to a beach or amusement park at some date, find out whether it is likely to be swamped with blacks on that date (neglect of that one got me the closest I have ever gotten to death by gunshot).

    (10d) Do not attend events likely to draw a lot of blacks.

    (10e) If you are at some public event at which the number of blacks suddenly swells, leave as quickly as possible.

    Like


  45. Sam

    “If you are going to be murdered, it is more likely to be a white murderer. Period. Many times more likely. ”

    Yes, of course a white is more likely to be murdered by a white overall. However, a white who lives in close proximity to a large population of blacks is much more likely to be murdered than a white who lives among whites and far from any significant black population. The same goes for blacks.

    Now, you can bring up poverty if you like but I’ll chose safety over egalitarian principles, thank you. In other words, even if poverty and white racism explains it all – a white is still an idiot if they move into close proximity to large black populations.

    Like


  46. @Brahms
    What do you mean?
    ”Until decent black people stand to up to the racist mindset of “keeping it real”, there is no hope. What does “keeping it real” mean? Do you know?”
    I know I am a decent Black person. Honestly I didn’t know what you meant. Yes, there is a lot of Blacks hostile towards Whites as well as Whites hostile towards Blacks. Anyways I am trying to say is that there are racists in every race and ethnicity and racism is not pretty either Racism is an evil that has to be stopped!

    Like


  47. Brahms,

    You can’t answer my question directly huh? I asked if you are saying that black people are like pit bulls. It’s a yes or no question. And I’m not even going to dignify your response with a counter response.

    Like


  48. Adeen,

    What Brahms is saying that black people need to stop thinking like the black people he sees on TV. So, he’s basically saying that all black people think alike. Brahms basically want black people to stop being racist against whites because, to him, that is the real problem in this society. If black people stop thinking or acting “black” and think and act like whites as he wants, then this society will be a better place, for whites at least.

    This is why you should never engage in a battle of wits with a person who clearly doesn’t have ammunition.

    Like


  49. Abadong writes, “I tested this. Downtown Harlem and Chinatown at the time had about the same crime rate. I walked down 125th Street in Harlem: 5% white. I walked down Canal Street in Chinatown: 40% white.”

    Even if Downtown Harlem and Chinatown have the same crime rate there is one big difference. Black criminals choose white victims slightly more than they choose black victims. Whereas Chinese criminals mainly choose Chinese victims. Ergo, it is still safer for whites to walk in Chinatown than Downtown Harlem.

    “A white person is 6.5 times more likely to be killed by another white. Even if this was achieved by whites avoiding blacks, then whites are 6.5 times more afraid of blacks than they should be.”

    This ignores a fundamental difference between acquaintance homicides and stranger homicides. 30% of white on white murders are committed by strangers. Whereas 55% of black on white murders are committed by strangers. Therefore, the relative risk of whites associating with black strangers is higher.

    I don’t think it would be reasonable to suggest that whites never associate with white acquaintances do you? Although, I’m sure many whites already avoid dangerous white acquaintances as much as possible.

    I wrote about acquaintance vs stranger homicide on my blog almost a year ago. The data tables for Trends in Racial Composition of Acquaintance and Stranger Homicides are available from the Bureau of Justice Statistics.

    Like


  50. Abadong

    I just thought of something. Out of curiosity, did you happen to notice how many Chinese were walking in Downtown Harlem? I’m guessing not that many. Perhaps they didn’t feel safe there either.

    Like


  51. on Sun 8 Apr 2012 at 07:30:24 grin and bear it

    For example, if I was out walking and passed by 50 people (all black) one evening compared to another
    night where I passed by only whites (50); my chances of getting killed are much much higher on the black night.

    Aaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrggggggggghhhhhhhhh!

    Here’s why your argument fails: the chance of your NOT GETTING KILLED AT ALL is much, much, much, MUCH greater than either one of those scenarios. Like the difference in elevation between the highest peak at Mt. Everest and the nadir of the Dead Sea.

    But let’s just say the odds aren’t in your favor that night. Despite your fear of a black planet, you’re actually more likely to be victimized by the familiar, rather than the opposite. That would be a) by someone of your own race, b) in the vicinity of someplace that you frequent, like near your home or office, c) by someone you know or are acquainted with, and d) as vengeance for some slight or humiliation against them. Most of the time, when a murder results, all four of those things — together — are true.

    So in all likelihood, Brahms — unless you are passe blanc and one of those marauding blacks is actually a family member stalking your gym, looking for payback because you slept with his wife, stole his money, got him fired from his job, and then YouTubed the whole thing for the world to see — it is very possible that not one of those 50 Negroes would do so much as bat an eye if they passed you on the street.

    Like


  52. @destructure

    Abadong writes, “I tested this. Downtown Harlem and Chinatown at the time had about the same crime rate. I walked down 125th Street in Harlem: 5% white. I walked down Canal Street in Chinatown: 40% white.”

    Even if Downtown Harlem and Chinatown have the same crime rate there is one big difference. Black criminals choose white victims slightly more than they choose black victims. Whereas Chinese criminals mainly choose Chinese victims. Ergo, it is still safer for whites to walk in Chinatown than Downtown Harlem.

    “A white person is 6.5 times more likely to be killed by another white. Even if this was achieved by whites avoiding blacks, then whites are 6.5 times more afraid of blacks than they should be.”

    This ignores a fundamental difference between acquaintance homicides and stranger homicides. 30% of white on white murders are committed by strangers. Whereas 55% of black on white murders are committed by strangers. Therefore, the relative risk of whites associating with black strangers is higher.

    I don’t think it would be reasonable to suggest that whites never associate with white acquaintances do you? Although, I’m sure many whites already avoid dangerous white acquaintances as much as possible.

    I wrote about acquaintance vs stranger homicide on my blog almost a year ago. The data tables for Trends in Racial Composition of Acquaintance and Stranger Homicides are available from the Bureau of Justice Statistics.

    If you want to disagree with a person’s blog post, that’s fine. But, don’t disrespect him by making fun of his name. That is some grade school shit.

    Now, where did you pull out those statistics? Did you get another race realist to interpret them for ya? Did you get it from “The Color of Crime” or some other publican written by a race realist, or did you just pull those statistics out of your ass?

    It’s not intelligent to rely on statistics alone. No intelligent person would conclude that all it takes are numbers and percentages to determine what a group of people are, especially of the possibility that numbers can be fixed.

    It’s also a cowardly move to use them to justify fear and hatred of a certain instead of just admitting straight out that you just hate and fear people because they are different, and that you believe in your heart that they aren’t human. Then again, that reason alone is stupid. So, you race realists came up with a way to mask your racism with some science fiction. They are mere excuses to shield yourself from being called what you are, a racist.

    Is that why you won’t admit why you have a problem with black people? (And don’t turn this question around saying that they have a problem with you as if you’re the victim which contradicts the notion that white people are superior)

    In any case all you so-called race realist do is prove Abagond’s point each and every single time you try to refute it. So much for the superior power of white intelligence. I guess when you guys were in the gene pool, you got your asses drowned lol.

    Like


  53. Another Possibility: http://afalanguage.wordpress.com/2011/02/13/an-understanding-of-the-power-of-a-gesture/

    If Black Americans have a different Body Language due to culture, isn’t it possible that a Black person might be “Misread” by White people who are picking up on the wrong nonverbal cues?

    Like


  54. @ Destructure

    “This ignores a fundamental difference between acquaintance homicides and stranger homicides. 30% of white on white murders are committed by strangers. Whereas 55% of black on white murders are committed by strangers. Therefore, the relative risk of whites associating with black strangers is higher.”

    Do the math:

    2963 white-on-white murders
    2604 black-on-black murders
    454 black-on-white murders
    209 white-on-black murders

    2963 x 30% = 889
    454 x 55% = 250

    So even among strangers you are 3.6 times more likely to be killed by a white person.

    You, as a white person, are more likely to be struck by lightning than killed by some random black person. Which makes my point yet again: white fear of blacks is not about the numbers.

    Like


  55. @ Brahms

    “If I see a pit bull I’ll walk the other way. I know pit bulls can be nice dogs however, it is fact that you have a higher likelihood of getting attacked by a pit bull than another kind of dog.”

    See my previous comment.

    Like


  56. All the derbyshire tips could be apied to black people dealing with white neighborhoods, white male clusters

    Yeah , Grin and bear it, its fear of a black planet

    yean Destrutass , watch the name bs

    Like


  57. abadong

    Do you really not understand the concepts of base rates and relative risk? I’ll explain. Let’s say a town of 500 has 5 murders per year. Now, lets say a city of 5 million has 10 murders per year. The city of 5 million has twice as many murders so it has to be twice as dangerous right? Wrong. But that’s what you’re arguing.

    Like


  58. @ Destructure

    Do you understand how to spell?

    Like


  59. @ Destructure

    Who is abadong? Some imaginary friend of yours?

    Like


  60. Destructure’s deliberate use of “abadong” is his way of pleading with Abagond to ban him from this site. Apparently, d can’t keep his pesky uncontrollable web browser away from this place of “lesser beings” on his own. Addictions are tough habits to break, eh d???

    Abagond, I say do the right thing! : ))

    Like


  61. I believe that Abagond’s premise and supporting claims contain significant flaws.

    Summarized, the claims are:

    1. The likelihood of murder is low regardless of your personal demographics.

    2. White people are not at significantly greater risk of being victims of crime by black people than they are from white people.

    Regarding claim #1, as Uncle Milton stated, fear of crime tends to be much more oriented towards events far likelier than murder, such as robbery, assault, burglary, etc.

    Abagond states that the murder rate among black perpetrators is 600-700% higher than among white perpetrators. For the moment, let’s extend this to the more likely events of robbery, assault, and burglary.

    If this holds, then everyone black or white ought to regard the potential for crime by black people to be far higher than for white people.

    With claim #2, Abagond cites figures to suggest that white people are not at a significantly higher risk of being victimized by black criminals. What is not addressed is the critical question of WHY.

    Unless you are claiming that black criminals specifically go out of their way to avoid targeting white victims, the more likely cause of the stated low level of interracial crime is that the people who predominantly commit such crimes tend to live in self-segregated environments.

    So unless this claim is being made, then white people (just like black people) do have a legitimate concern about the potential of crime by those with higher crime commission rates.

    Like


  62. @ Bulanik

    When racist whites run out of excuses and rationale, they turn to childish name calling. Seen it my whole life.

    Like


  63. I co-sign with Matari, Bulanik and Truthbetold, the only thing I would say is, to have these” disconnect from any reality reguarding black people ” chumps around, its a great way to study their disconnect process up close…they wont say this in the real world, its real inside psycological inspection out in the open

    Like


  64. @ Everyone

    Aba allows the name calling and blatant racism in his blog to show us that when whites claim racism is over, it’s just a clever ruse to sweep it under the rug.

    Also, these race-realists, A.k.A. racists, could be our best friends that we grew up with, co-workers and, (gasp), family members/ in-laws.
    What is being said here, via a keyboard, is real and true honesty of how some whites view us.
    I must say, after decades of suspecting this, I’m no longer surprised.

    Like


  65. @destructure, randy:

    Ok guys. explain this:

    I am a white european. I have been in Harlem, in Alpha Bet City, in Brooklyn in the late 1980’s during the worst crack craze. I have been in other cities in US among the blacks in black neighborhoods in 80’s and 90’s. I have been in neighborhoods full of latinos. I have been in a real low down ghetto of native americans. I have been in China Towns. I have been in several countries and cities in Africa. I have been in a very bad neighbourhood in Lagos Nigeria and you can ask from anyone is that a safe place for a white european. I was not mugged, robbed, stabbed, beaten, killed, tortured, raped, teased, bullied or ridiculed. My question to you is this: how this is possible?

    According to you and your statistics I should have been at least robbed. Why on earth nothing happend to me? In all those places during all those years there was one (1) incident where a black guy wanted to get it on with me. I can’t even remember how many times I have been at odds with white guys, including some with guns and/or knives etc., during those same years.

    Question is: how an earth that is possible if what you say is true?

    Like


  66. I’m beginning to understand why people are having such a hard time with my ideas – they require just a tiny bit of reflection.

    No, not really. People are having a hard time with your post because you are a deluded sack of shi+.

    Until decent black people stand to up to the racist mindset of “keeping it real”, there is no hope. What does “keeping it real” mean? Do you know?

    Kerchief heads of the world unite to kiss the proverbial white man’s arse! ‘Keeping it real’? Not being delusional for starts!

    Abadong

    Get his name right arsehole! We are not interested in your secret lust for black men. This ain’t a hook up site for white racists who secretly lust after black men. A fine example of the sub-conscious coming to the fore.

    Since the Chinese population has gone up 200% in Harlem, I’d say a lot.

    http://articles.nydailynews.com/2011-08-08/local/29882265_1_chinese-food-chinese-immigrants-east-harlem

    Like


  67. @ Herneith

    LOL! I’ve wondered about that myself! Might explain all the animosity.

    Like


  68. Dear Abagond,

    The absolute numbers are not relevant and I expect you know that what counts is the rate of occurrence. Frankly, I expect better of you. Usually, I find your posting annoying, challenging, frustrating but this was just sloppy.

    Plus you thinks all whites are racist anyway so why garnish the lily?

    Like


  69. “to have these” disconnect from any reality reguarding black people ” chumps around, its a great way to study their disconnect process up close…they wont say this in the real world, its real inside psycological inspection out in the open”

    and:

    “Aba allows the name calling and blatant racism in his blog to show us that when whites claim racism is over, it’s just a clever ruse to sweep it under the rug.”

    *****************************************

    What we see here in the way of commentary/posts from racist trolls can be seen in comment sections on sites all across the internet like youtube, facebook, twitter, myspace, stormfront, chimpout, huffington post, stuffwhitepeoplelike, and countless other venues where comments can be posted at large.

    Any non-white person who is unaware of how racist most whites can be are:

    – relatively YOUNG people
    – … haven’t yet been exposed to blatant/subtle racism
    – people that live/exist in some sort of a protective bubble
    – people that are (for some reason) out of touch with reality
    – people who swallowed the blue pill and see America as kumbaya territory

    What initially attracted me to this site years ago was the TRUTH contained in Abagond’s numerous posts regarding race relations in America. His posts and the attendant comments validated the vast range of peculiar experiences I was having/feeling as the only person of color living and working among a small group of white people. The same white people who insisted I was the one imagining and creating racial issues – and being racist – according to their POV because I was naive enough to believe (back then) I could discuss/call out matters pertaining to race/racism with some of them.

    {{{ Word to the wise: if they don’t want to hear you, do not talk to/engage them. There is never any ground to be gained. }}}

    Consequently, this site and Macon D’s Stuffwhitepeopledo became safe NON-WHITE spaces/places where eurocentric/whiteness (and the white gaze) weren’t the predominant lens from which most participants peered through. They were like “think tanks” where like minded people of color could come to analyze the nuances of living/working as non-whites in a very racist system. They were also places where interested, allied and well meaning whites could come to LEARN and contribute.

    Questions and challenges are good – and helpful. But when they’re coming from trolls – real racists who call themselves race realists – with the intent to continually put down and undermine the truth of our reality for the sake of their own damaged and deluded psyches/egos, I have to wonder how much more of this vomit will be permitted for the sake of showcasing racist thoughts and deeds that the Internet/America is overwhelmingly immersed in.

    Granted, this isn’t literally anyone’s house, barbershop, hairdresser’s, place of worship or any other type of old style traditional gathering places where black people often congregated to chill/relax without much concern or fear from racist intrusions. Nor is it my place to suggest how Abagond should run his site. I’m only wondering in regard to today’s version of racism/white-supremacy, if people are really that naive as to how racists and racism works, that it needs to be consistently showcased here in the form of an endless stream of racist trolls permitted to regurgitate and slobber their tired endless crap all over this well formed place.

    Bottom line: we’re all different, as we’re supposed to be.
    Some of us seem to like/tolerate having trolls here. And others simply ignore, and/or ridicule them. If the trolls weren’t here as much as they are, I wonder what we might be doing, saying, solving, creating, working on instead?

    Like


  70. The absolute numbers are not relevant and I expect you know that what counts is the rate of occurrence.

    I suspect you are another white racist goof. I suspect you know the numbers to tonight’s BINGO jackpot. I suspect you are a tool of Cthulu.

    Frankly, I expect better of you. Usually, I find your posting annoying, challenging, frustrating but this was just sloppy

    Frankly BadWolf, I don’t think he gives a damn!

    Plus you thinks all whites are racist anyway so why garnish the lily?

    Who said he was garnishing lillies? The only thing he is garnishing is ham for Easter dinner!

    Like


  71. Matari, very well put… after reading what you are saying , the real value that a blog like this can represent, I re think what I said and co-sign

    Like you said, you can see these creepy racist white points of view all over the place, its not like it is unique here

    There is nothing more humbling for me than to see compelling testimonies of yours and Brothawolf , of what this blog means to you

    Like


  72. @Truthbetold
    I agree with you 100&

    Like


  73. @Truthbetold
    I mean 100% but however how did you figure that out? How did you figure out why Abagond lets people who don’t agree with him post such things on his blog.
    And not all Whites are racist. A lot of them still are. But have you ever heard of Nation of Islam? They have racist idealogies saying that all Whites are blue eyed devils and stuff like that but we never talk about them but always about racism we suffered from Whites. They are racist like the KKK only they are Black but the KKK better known and has more power. I just don’t like racism on both sides although White racism is more common.
    @Abagond
    Why don’t you do post on Nation of Islam? It sure will be a excellent post!
    I hope I didn’t offend you, Truthbetold. I am only 16 and haven’t seen much of the world yet.

    Like


  74. Guys, I don’t know about you, but why even bother with these racist sh!tstains on the underpants of humanity? They’ve proven, yet again, the kind of people they are. They’re not worth your time and effort.

    Like


  75. B.R.

    Yes, I ponder the potential.. but the direction and future, mission, rules and purpose of the blog lies in the hand of its owner, and rightly so.

    He’s accomplished a tremendous effort here … written what seems like tens of thousands of posts, many of them about the experience of race in America in an easy to digest lucid non technical/academia format. I’ve learned much from reading his posts – in spite of the trolls. In fact, I’ve learned a lot of facts from the replies MANY of the regulars here have written in response to the trolls. So even though I find them distracting and vile, they sometimes benefit in indirect ways.

    Like


  76. Why do “white” albinic people in general hate “black” meleniated people in general and instead of being honest about it lie and make up logically looking rationalizations?

    In my experience it may have something to do with the way both groups or populations look.

    A large percentage of the “white” albinic people I see regularly look quiet ugly to me.
    I have little interest in being around them much less getting to know them.

    The question also is (is this an objective perception or clouded by history of abuse,current abuse and disadvantage)?

    objective evidence : white is pale and a percentage of the “white” albinic population engage in natural and artifical suntaning.
    Thier most important or sexual tasks wear black – police ,priest ,judes,weddings,ligeria.

    subjective bais : I’m a poor,lonely frequently abused ,solitary african american male.

    Like


  77. Adeen, sharp mind there…I used to live in Hyde Park, Chicago, where they had their headquarters. I would go to the store and they would hand out their papers and Id buy some bean pie. Back then Nixon was in office, and, before he was discovered in the Watergate scandals, they would have these ugly picutures of Nixon, where the regular papers would have nice pictures…after they impeched Nixon, the regular pictures ran the same ugly pictures of Nixon….haha

    You have a great point there. The Nation of Islam has had Malcolm X, Mohamid Ali , Loius Farrakan, probably killed Malcom X. I thought they started differant policies but I dont know, but, you are on point

    Matari , I hear you and I think this blog is in good hands

    Like


  78. “regular papers ran the same ugly pictures”…doh

    Like


  79. Honestly, I think the biggest sign that it’s racism and not “safety” is the fact that black women and children are often treated like criminals (even though women and children have the lowest statistics out of everyone). It’s one thing to look at a huge black man who’s just gotten out of prison and has a ton of tattoos that represent a kill count. He’s obviously capable of being dangerous (just like a white guy with the same description). But when you look at a little black girl and see her as a “threat”, you aren’t going off of her “pathology” you are going off of your own racist assumptions of her.

    White people commit more crime due to sheer numbers, yet you do not see people saying “Oh, there’s a higher chance that this random white man is a criminal because there are so many occurrences of white crime!” Men commit a hell of a lot more crime than women but when women claim that all men should be feared and even treated poorly people throw out the term “Feminazi”. White people have a history of hunting down people of color, and killing them (their families, and their entire towns) in horrific ways, yet no one sits here and says, “Oh white people are scary, look at the numbers!”

    Seriously, if you’re more worried about someone’s skin color than their actions, you are lacking in logic. You are far more likely to be attacked by someone of your own race, in your own neighborhood (likely in your own circle of acquaintance) than you are from some random black person.

    I don’t understand why people have a hard time understanding that (like everyone else) black people do not all sit there waiting to get their hands on some “speshul” white person to victimize. That fear is just the result of racist thought mixed with a little guilt. The fact is, black people weren’t the ones roving in bands looking for black men to lynch. They also weren’t the ones who got away for doing so. They didn’t make laws that treated white people like cattle, and they didn’t refuse them rights until the latter part of the 20th century. Hell, even the largest modern major terrorist attack on American soil (pre-9/11) was committed by white people. According to racist logic, black people should, in fact, fear white people, yet they don’t use that logic. In find it telling that racists act like they’ve been the ones oppressed, attacked, and victimized for generations, like they actually have a reason for that fear.

    Then we get people here who just come on to vomit out the same anti-intellectual bleating that makes genuine discussion about race devolve to just pointless repetition. It’s aggravating.

    Like


  80. @ Adeen

    No offense at all.
    It’s been my experience that you tend to learn the most of a person’s character when you disagree. A lot comes out. Perhaps too much, if you know what I mean.

    As to why I think Abagond allows the racism? I don’t know. An educated guess. After all, every antiracist blog needs it’s token racist.
    Plus, as I said before, Dave, Doug, Bliff and many others could be the ones that teach us at school, sit next to us at work and marry into our families.
    Adeen, as you progress in your young life, you will see instances where you’ll say to yourself:

    1. That was odd.
    2. I wonder what she meant by that.
    3. Why am I the only one who ______ (fill in the blank)
    4. Why was I passed over for the job/apartment/interview, etc…
    5. How come my friends never understand what I mean when I say…
    6. What’s everybody staring at?

    Not all whites are racist.
    True.
    But the majority of them are.
    Period.
    And how you interact with them will NOT go unnoticed. Every move, mis-spoken word, attire, movie, book, custom you have will be closely scrutinized as a CONFIRMATION of a white based bias.
    What you do and how you choose to deal with it will also be watched.
    Eventually, you’ll give up and do as you wish, or try to conform and be apart of the herd.

    Like


  81. @ Ace

    Black skin, male and female, has been the subject of lust, fascination, fear, envy and loathing since the first ship sailed across the Atlantic.

    Not one damn thing has changed.

    Like


  82. I wouldn’t normally associate fear with racism although that can be a part of how racist attitudes are formed. Lots to think about in this thread. I will hold off on writing what I really want to…

    Like


  83. Underneath it all there seems to be a constant fear of reprisals – this is what contributes to this ‘fear’ of so called black ‘acting’ individuals…

    Like


  84. sam:

    According to you and your statistics I should have been at least robbed. Why on earth nothing happend to me?

    The topic of debate is whether a white person has any reasonable basis for having a greater concern about becoming a victim of black crime than white crime, or if they’re simply expressing bigotry.

    I offered counter-arguments as to why Abagond’s two supporting claims don’t appear to successfully validate his premise. Please feel free to offer a rebuttal to those counter-arguments.

    Like


  85. @ Bulanik
    ( Truthbetold leans forward expectantly…)

    Like


  86. The following excerpt was written by a white person. It helps put white-supremacy/racism in its proper perspective. No, this won’t change the attitudes and hearts of real racists, but it will give a broader more encompassing view to those unaccustomed to seeing more of the BIG picture the real racists would rather have us all overlook – if they could.

    **************************************

    As white people, we’ve been lulled into thinking it’s safe to be around other white people. We’ve been taught since birth that it’s the people of that other color we need to fear. They’re the ones who’ll slit your throat!
    Yet as I look back on my life, a strange but unmistakable pattern seems to emerge. Every person who has ever harmed me in my lifetime-the boss who fired me, the teacher who flunked me, the principal who punished me, the kid who hit me in the eye with a rock, the other kid who shot me with his BB gun, the executive who didn’t renew TV Nation, the guy who was stalking me for three years, the accountant who double-paid my taxes, the drunk who smashed into me, the burglar who stole my stereo, the contractor who overcharged me, the girlfriend who left me, the next girlfriend who left even sooner, the pilot of the plane I was on who hit a truck on the runway (he probably hadn’t eaten in days), the other pilot who decided to fly through a tornado, the person in the office who stole checks from my checkbook and wrote them out to himself for a total of $16,000-every one of these individuals has been a white person! Coincidence? I think not!

    I have never been attacked by a black person, never been evicted by a black person, never had my security deposit ripped off by a black landlord, never had a black landlord, never had a meeting at a Hollywood studio with a black executive in charge, never seen a black agent at the film/TV agency that used to represent me, never had a black person deny my child the college of her choice, never been puked on by a black teenager at a Motley Crew concert, never been pulled over by a black cop, never been sold a lemon by a black car salesman, never seen a black car salesman, never had a black person deny me a bank loan, never had a black person try to bury my movie, and I’ve never heard a black person say, “We’re going to eliminate ten thousand jobs here-have a nice day!”

    … it’s always the white guy. Let’s go to the tote board:

    * Who gave us the black plague? A white guy.
    * Who invented PBC, PVC, PBB, and a host of chemicals that are killing us? White guys.
    * Who has started every war America has been in? White men.
    * Who is responsible for the programming on FOX? White men.
    * Who invented the punch card ballot? A white man.
    * Whose idea was it to pollute the world with the internal combustion engine? Whitey, that’s who.
    * The Holocaust? That guy really gave white people a bad name (that’s why we prefer to call him a Nazi and his little helpers Germans).
    * The genocide of Native Americans? White man.
    * [Chattel] Slavery? Whitey!
    * So far in 2001, American companies have laid off over 700,000 people. Who ordered the layoffs? White CEOs.
    * Who keeps bumping me off the Internet? Some friggin’ white guy, and if I find him, he’s a dead white guy.

    You name the problem, the disease, the human suffering, or the abject misery visited upon millions, and I’ll bet you ten bucks I can put a white face on it faster than you can name the members of ‘N Sync.

    And yet when I turn on the news each night, what do I see again and again? Black men alleged to be killing, raping, mugging, stabbing, gangbanging, looting, rioting, selling drugs, pimping, ho-ing, having too many babies, dropping babies from tenement windows, fatherless, motherless, Godless, penniless. “The suspect is described as a black male . . . the suspect is described as a black male . . . THE SUSPECT IS DESCRIBED AS A BLACK MALE….”

    No matter what city I’m in, the news is always the same, the suspect always the same unidentified black male. I’m in Atlanta tonight, and I swear the police sketch of the black male suspect on TV looks just like the black male suspect I saw on the news last night in Denver and the night before in L.A. In every sketch he’s frowning, he’s menacing-and he’s wearing the same knit cap! Is it possible that it’s the same black guy committing every crime in America?

    African-Americans have been on the lowest rung of the economic ladder since the day they were beaten and dragged here in chains-and they have never made it off that rung, not for a single damn day. Every other immigrant group who has landed here has been able to advance from the bottom to the middle and upper levels of our society. Even Native Americans, who are among the poorest of the poor, have fewer children living in poverty than African-Americans.

    You probably thought things had gotten better for blacks in this country. I mean, after all, considering all the advances we’ve made eliminating racism in our society, one would think our black citizens might have seen their standard of living rise. A survey published in the Washington Post in July 2001 showed that 40 to 60 percent of white people thought the average black person had it as good or better than the average white person.

    Think again. According to a study conducted by the economists Richard Vedder, Lowell Gallaway, and David C. Clingaman, the average income for a black American is 61 percent less per year than the average white income. That is the same percentage difference as it was in 1880! Not a damn thing has changed in more than 120 years.

    Want more proof? Consider the following:

    * About 20 percent of young black men between the ages of sixteen and twenty-four are neither in school nor working-compared with only 9 percent of young white men. Despite the “economic boom” of the nineties, this percentage has not fallen substantially over the last ten years.

    * In 1993, white households had invested nearly three times as much in stocks and mutual funds and/or IRA and Keogh accounts as black households. Since then, the stock market has more than doubled its value.

    * Black heart attack patients are far less likely than whites to undergo cardiac catheterization, a common and potentially lifesaving procedure, regardless of the race of their doctors. Black and white doctors together referred white patients for catheterization about 40 percent more often than black patients.

    * Whites are five times more likely than blacks to receive emergency clot-busting treatment for stroke.

    * Black women are four times more likely than white women to die while giving birth.

    * Black levels of unemployment have been roughly twice those of whites since 1954.

    … So how have we white people been able to get away with this without all ending up like Reginald Denny?

    Caucasian ingenuity! You see, we used to be real dumb. Like idiots, we wore our racism on our sleeve. We did really obvious things, like putting up signs on rest room doors that said WHITES ONLY. Over a drinking fountain we’d hang a sign that said COLOREDS. We made black people sit at the back of the bus. We prevented them from attending our schools or living in our neighborhoods. They got the crappiest jobs (those advertised for NEGROES ONLY), and we made it clear that if you weren’t white you were going to be paid a lower wage.

    Well, this overt, over-the-top segregation got us into a heap of trouble. A bunch of uppity lawyers went to court-citing, of all things, our very own Constitution! They pointed out that the Fourteenth Amendment doesn’t allow for anyone to be treated differently because of their race.

    Eventually, after a long procession of court losses, demonstrations, and riots, we got the message: if we didn’t wise up, we were going to have to start sharing some of the pie. We learned an important lesson: if you’re going to be a successful racist, better find a way to do it with a smile on your face!
    So white people got smart and took down the signs, stopped lynching black men who might have stopped on the street to talk with our women, passed a bunch of civil-rights laws, and ceased saying words like nigger in public. We even got magnanimous enough to say, Sure, you can even live here in our neighborhood; your kids can go to our kids’ school. Why the hell not? We were just leaving anyway.

    We smiled, gave black America a pat on the back-and then ran like the devil to the suburbs. Now we get to have things just the way we always used to have them in the cities. When we walk out to pick up the paper in the morning, we look one way down the street and see white people; look the other way, and guess what?-more white people!

    At work, we whites still get the plum jobs, double the pay, and a seat in the front of the bus to happiness and success. Look back down the aisle, though, and you’ll see the blacks sitting where they’ve always been, picking up after us, waiting on us, serving us from behind the counter.

    In order to create a cover for this continued discrimination, we hold “diversity seminars” at our workplaces and appoint “urban relations” people to help us “connect with the community.” When we advertise for a job opening we gleefully include the words “An Equal Opportunity Employer.” It feels so good-and it’s good for a chuckle, ’cause we know there’s no way in hell a black guy’s going to get the job. Only 4 percent of the African-American population have a graduate degree (compared with 9 percent of whites and 15 percent of Asian-Americans).

    We’ve rigged the system from birth, guaranteeing that black people will go to the worst public schools, thus preventing them from admission to the best colleges, and paving their way to a fulfilling life making our lattes, servicing our BMWs, and picking up our trash.

    Oh, sure, a few slip by-but they pay an extra tariff for the privilege: the black doctor driving his BMW gets pulled over continually by the cops; the black Broadway actress can’t get a cab after the standing ovation; the black broker is the first to be laid off because of “seniority.”

    We whites really deserve some kind of genius award for this. We talk the talk of inclusion, we celebrate the birthday of Dr. King, we frown upon racist jokes; thanks to that rat bastard Mark Fuhrman blowing our cover, we’ve even coined a new term-“the N-word”-to replace the real Ni66er McCoy. Trust me, you’ll NEVER catch any of us saying that word out loud-not these days, no-sir-ree-bob! The only time it’s acceptable is when we’re singing along with a rap song-and boy, do we suddenly love to rap!

    We never fail to drop a mention of “my friend-he’s black . . .” We give money to the United Negro College Fund, recognize Black History Month, and make sure we put our lone black employee up at the front reception desk so we can say things like “See-we don’t discriminate! We hire black people.”

    Yes, we are a very crafty, cagey race-and damn if we haven’t gotten away with it!

    It’s not the white skin color of others that gives me the creeps. What galls me is that my fellow white people have become so conniving they’ve figured out a way to turn black people into white people! When I first heard Clarence Thomas speak I thought, “For crying out loud, don’t white people have enough people already?” Now the airwaves are filled with blacks who are trotted out to push the white agenda. I am stumped as to where the networks dig these individuals up. They speak out against affirmative action, even though many of them got into college thanks to affirmative action. They blast welfare mothers, even though that’s who their own mother was, struggling for years in poverty so her son could grow up to debase her and her kind. They speak out against homosexuals, even though AIDS has devastated black gay men more than any other group. They despise Jesse Jackson, even though he spent years being arrested and risking his life so they would have the freedom to sit down in any restaurant and order lunch, let alone voice any opinion they wished. I’m not saying that black America must speak with one political voice; I’m just repulsed by the venom some of these “conservatives” spew.

    It’s the saddest thing to watch, this Uncle Tom porn. How much are these freaks being paid? I wonder, when the red light on the camera goes off, does Bill O’Reilly or Chris Matthews or Tucker Carlson ever say to these sellouts, “Hey, there’s a house next to mine for sale-you oughta move in!” or “Hey, my sister’s single now, and so are you-how ’bout it?” I don’t know, maybe they do. Maybe O’Reilly will have me over for Kwanzaa this December.

    I wonder how long we’ll have to live with the legacy of slavery. That’s right. I brought it up. SLAVERY. You can almost hear the groans of white America whenever you bring up the fact that we still suffer from the impact of a government-approved and supported slave system.
    Well, I’m sorry, but the roots of most of our social ills can be traced straight back to this sick chapter of our history. AfricanAmericans never got a chance to have the same fair start the rest of us got. Their families were willfully destroyed. Their language and culture and religion were stripped from them. Their poverty was institutionalized so that our cotton could get picked, our wars could be fought, our convenience stores could remain open all night. The America we’ve come to know would never have come to pass if not for the millions of slaves who built it and created its booming economy-and for the millions of their descendants who do the same dirty work for whites today.

    (end of excerpt)

    … btw, this little dated excerpt is dedicated to all of my favorite silly racist trolls. UNFORTUNATELY there’s way too many of you (to mention names). .. you truth-haters should all know who you are by now. : ))

    P.S.

    I hear stormfront and other similar sites are recruiting new members …

    Like


  87. @Truthbetold
    You are right but it is weird because when I looked it up only about 33-36% of Whites in America were racist. I don’t know but you have more experience than I do.
    And you kind of scared me with this:
    ”And how you interact with them will NOT go unnoticed. Every move, mis-spoken word, attire, movie, book, custom you have will be closely scrutinized as a CONFIRMATION of a white based bias.
    What you do and how you choose to deal with it will also be watched.”
    Does that mean it is dangerous to be around Whites? I don’t know but maybe this can contribute to the way I was treated at the Catholic school last year, TC. Most of the Caucasian students were mean to me and made fun of me. The girls wouldn’t talk to me and talked behind my back and said I was weird, wouldn’t leave them alone etc. At least, most of them were like that anyways. The guys teased me a lot and a few of them always made fun of me. The Black students weren’t any better either. They didn’t talk to me much either and the Black guys, the ones in my grade not outside of my grade, teased me a lot and were nicer to the White and light skin girls. The light skin girls in my grade were treater nicer as well as the dark skin girls that ”fitted” in and ”acted like Valley Girls.”But for the most part, the Black students weren’t nearly as bad as how th White students treated me. Most Black students were okay for the most part but they didn’t talk to me much. I wouldn’t say that I acted White, but I don’t act ghetto either. I do speak my mind and tell others my own opinion and they took advantage of that and thought that I was sassy. I am NOT sassy by any means and they thought so. I just say and write how I feel. I was really bad the whole year and eventually Ileft.

    I go to a public high school now and like it much better. People don’t tease me much there. I always wondered why those Caucasian kids treated me so horribly? Was there something wrong with me like how they say it was? Or because they think that I am this strange Black kid who writes stories and gets good grades? i don’ know but I do know that it was such a sad part of my life, but at the same time, it was so recent too! Sometimes I am haunted by it and despise the bullies. I don’t want to see those people again in 10,20,25 or 30 years from now ever! I just don’t need them in my life.

    ”Black skin, male and female, has been the subject of lust, fascination, fear, envy and loathing since the first ship sailed across the Atlantic.

    Not one damn thing has changed”. Girl, you are right 100%

    And there has been Whites that have treated me way better than the people I mentioned at my Catholic school last year as well.
    Sorry for the long post, I had to let it all out!

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  88. @Matari
    Wow, you were so intense! But like me, you had to let it all out.
    .

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  89. Destructure:

    You are BANNED. There is no fucking way you can sit there and keep calling me “abadong”, even after I pointed it out, and expect to remain on this blog. Your dickheadedness shows that you are not one bit serious about anything discussed here.

    Like


  90. I was about to respond to Destructure..Never Mind.

    Like


  91. @Matari

    Was that from Stupid White Men? I feel like I have read some of that from somewhere.

    Like


  92. “Wow, you were so intense! But like me, you had to let it all out.”

    *****************************

    In case you’re wondering Ma’am, I didn’t write that last post..just pasted it here because it PERFECTLY FITS this thread’s topic – and thrashes/refutes the troll known as Randy attempt to undermine the theme/intent and truth of Abagond’s original post. But yes, I absolutely had to post this. 😉

    Like


  93. “Was that from Stupid White Men?”

    ****
    Yup.

    Like


  94. And destructure,

    If you’re reading this, remember, you brought this out on yourself. Though, something tells me you will not consider that seeing as how your ego is massive to compensate for something missing.

    Abagond,

    Have you heard about the recent Oklahoma shooting spree committed by two white males who shot five black people? Three have died, and two are in serious condition.

    One of the killers, Jake England, was suspected of taking part in the shooting supposedly because his father was killed by a black man. This goes well with this unresolved pain that whites feel after a “black attack”. To them that one or a few black people responsible is equivalent to the whole race. And, I think England wanted to take it out on random black people no matter who they are it seems.

    Like


  95. Matari,

    Thanks for posting that up.

    Like


  96. Abagond,

    This recent story goes right along with the “being attacked by black” thing we see from certain commenters:

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/tulsa-oklahoma-men-arrested-shooting-spree/story?id=16096391

    What do you think?

    Like


  97. RECONSIDERING THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN PERCEIVED NEIGHBORHOOD RACIAL COMPOSITION AND WHITES’ PERCEPTIONS OF VICTIMIZATION RISK: DO RACIAL STEREOTYPES MATTER?

    JUSTIN T. PICKETT,TED CHIRICOS,KRISTIN M. GOLDEN,MARC GERTZ

    From Criminology Journal. Published February 2012. I’m reading it now and I have already seen some interesting lines.

    [Similarly, Quillian and Pager (2001: 748) concluded that their results suggested “that the strong mental association between race and crime has a powerful influence on perceptions of neighborhood crime levels, beyond any actual association between race and crime.” ]

    [Research has shown that Black population growth is positively related to a range of social control outcomes, such as changes in police force size (Chamlin, 1989), police killings of Blacks (Jacobs and O’Brien, 1998), and harsher sentencing outcomes (Wang and Mears, 2010), as well as to punitive attitudes toward criminals (King and Wheelock, 2007). ]

    I’m and reading it through my University but if you can access it, so far it is very interesting and telling.

    Like


  98. @brothawolf

    I know you wanted a response from Abagond, but after watching the video and reading the article my mind was completely blown. Those two men killed people who were not involved in the murder of his father, were all Black, and he posted on his facebook a racial epithet and yet the police are still considering if its a hate crime. Seriously? What threat did those men pose to him? None, and I’m sure he didn’t get closure for his father’s death after killing them either. He was so stuck of the race of his father’s killer rather than the crime itself. That is sad and foolish. Sorry for my reply but that story was just..depressing.

    Like


  99. @ Adeen

    Be cautious around EVERYONE. You’re young, talented and pretty.
    What I meant was, as a young black womam, you’ll see many more examples of white racism, black internalized racism and you’ll figure out how to respond/ignore/deal with it.

    Like


  100. From the same article in Criminology.

    [Research also has shown that Americans tend to overestimate the proportion of criminals who are Black (Bratton et al., 2007; Chiricos, Welch, and Gertz, 2004). For instance, on the 1991 National Race and Politics Survey, 37.5 percent of the 2,223 interviewed respondents believed that 60.0 percent or more of the people arrested in the previous year for violent crimes were Black. In reality, however, Blacks accounted for a much smaller percentage of violent crime arrests in 1990—only 38.4 percent (U.S. Department of Justice, 1991).3]

    [A more recent study by these investigators showed that when nonracial environmental characteristics such as the area’s per capita income and population density were included in the models, the zip code percentage Black was unrelated to the actual risk of residents being victimized, but it remained a significant predictor of White perceptions of victimization risk (Quillian and Pager, 2010).]

    Like


  101. @ brothawolf

    How soon before white America transforms England from “white” to “asian” or “latino”?

    @ deedee7789

    The race war has begun. Call me crazy (most do) but somehow I feel that the Trayvon Martin saga is somehow linked to stirring up rather intense emotions for white America.

    Like


  102. More from the same article in Criminology.

    [Similarly, but by focusing specifically on the role of the media in fostering the stereotype of Blacks as criminals, Eschholz, Chiricos, and Gertz (2003: 412) explained that “to the degree that television equates blacks with crime, it is possible that the more people living in high percent black neighborhood watch crime-related programs, the more the conception of social threat is mobilized in relation to the perceived racial composition of their neighborhood.” According to this line of reasoning, the extent to which neighborhood racial composition will serve as a cue to the amount of crime in an area is contingent on the degree to which an individual endorses the stereotype of Blacks as criminals. Here the assumption is that the degree of stereotype endorsement by an individual is largely a function of his or her exposure to media reports about crime, upbringing and social relationships, personal or vicarious experiences with criminal offenders, and other factors.]

    [Substantial evidence indicates that Americans frequently overestimate the size of minority populations in the United States and that the magnitude of the distortion varies considerably across individuals (Alba, Rumbaut, and Marotz, 2005; Gallagher, 2003; Nedeau, Niemi, and Levine, 1993; Sigelman and Niemi, 2001; Wong, 2007). However, research shows that perceived neighborhood racial composition is more consequential for perceptions and fear of crime than the actual percentage of residents who are Black (Chiricos, Hogan, and Gertz, 1997). Chiricos, McEntire, and Gertz (2001: 327) suggested that the explanation for this finding is that for neighborhood racial composition “to be relevant for criminal threat, it must first be perceived (or misperceived) and be understood as threatening.”]

    Conclusion of the Study
    [In sum, the current study shows that perceived Black population growth increases perceptions of victimization risk among Whites who hold stereotypes of Blacks as criminals. The results thus provide partial support for the criminal threat hypothesis—a leading explanation for the often observed relationship between racial composition of place and levels of formal social control. Stated differently, the evidence suggests that the stereotype of Blacks as criminals, to the extent that perceptions of victimization risk translate into pressure on authorities to control crime, may serve to both mobilize Whites and justify controlling responses in the context of Black population growth (see Blalock, 1967: 167).]

    [criminal threat hypothesis, “racial composition of place can only be consequential for social control if actors situated in those social circumstances are aware of the racial composition, concerned about it and respond in ways that mobilize control initiatives.]

    This study and many others back up Abagond in a way. The perceived threat of minority groups is not based on actual threat. That in itself is racist.

    Like


  103. @Matari:

    Wow, what a stirring and impassioned post!

    And destructure was banned? Dang, I miss all the fun! It’s about time.:)

    Oh, and destructure. U mad? lol! 😀

    Like


  104. @deedee

    I know you wanted a response from Abagond, but after watching the video and reading the article my mind was completely blown. Those two men killed people who were not involved in the murder of his father, were all Black, and he posted on his facebook a racial epithet and yet the police are still considering if its a hate crime. Seriously? What threat did those men pose to him? None, and I’m sure he didn’t get closure for his father’s death after killing them either. He was so stuck of the race of his father’s killer rather than the crime itself. That is sad and foolish. Sorry for my reply but that story was just..depressing.

    It’s okay. It’s not restricted to just Abagond’s response. Anyone can chime in.

    Ankhesen Mie asked a qood question on my blog post about this crime. She asked me why didn’t this guy and his buddy go to the hood where that’s where all the thugs supposedly roam seeing as how a thug killed his dad. I got to thinking that maybe he saw all black people as potential miscreants. So picking them at random is like an eye for an eye.

    On the other hand, maybe he wanted to pick “easier targets”. His racial frame may have prevented him from going to the hood as he is afraid of being a target himself. So, he wanted to make the unarmed black people pay in the same way his father, who was probably unarmed at the time of death, died.

    @truthbetold

    How soon before white America transforms England from “white” to “asian” or “latino”?

    I’m sorry. I don’t understand the question.

    Like


  105. Bulanik:

    @Randy

    What is wrong with Sam’s answer?
    EXPLAIN.

    Risk assessment is a statistical analysis process. Anecdotes offer little in the way of illumination of the ideas under study.

    For example, If we are discussing whether or not there is a legitimate reason for people to think that riding in a motor vehicle without a seatbelt presents additional risks, sam’s stories about never buckling up and not getting injured wouldn’t inform the debate to any appreciable degree.

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  106. @truthbetold

    I would have to agree.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/06/trayvon-martin-case-armed_n_1409099.html

    Armed Neo-Nazis Patrolling Sanford article. I’m really starting to get worried. But I can’t say the (new?) Black Panthers Party is helping since I believe they are more of a trend then a serious group and are contributing to stirring racial tensions. So far the Sanford police are saying they haven’t seen the Neo-Nazis but I can barely take them for their word with how they are handling the Martin case.

    Like


  107. We’ll, as I’m reading through the comments, I’m happily seeing surprisingly measured, reasoned responses. In particular, Uncle Milton’s first response was slightly more fair-minded than the usual stuff I see from white commenters. It wasn’t the “rage unleashed” that I usually see from the likes of unamused, or SBPDL, etc. I’ll still point to this underlying idea: What whites truly fear, is what most people, including middle/upper class blacks
    fear. This is that 1/16-1/8 of the black population comprised of young (>30) unfathered, likely unchurched, often un(der) employed, increasingly uneducated, essentially unloved black males. This very specific group is increasingly becoming trouble for everyone they come in contact with. I don’t feel that it makes me an Uncle Tom to admit this. (It’s difficult to write comments on my smart phone, so I’ll break this up into two comments.)

    Like


  108. Ok, now that numnuts is banned maybe it’s time for a respectable counter argument……… Here’s my thing abagond. This argument has happened before on here. First you get mad at some white perp “hate crimes” then post them…………Then some commenters (especially young ones like adeen) get the wrong idea that she needs to fear white people in general………Then some counter arguments pop up like “blacks kill blacks……..whites kill whites” then next thing you know there is an argument about DOJ numbers on interracial crimes………….. Then it turns into “the scared little white people”

    We’ve seen this played out before. But it’s a little different with all of the recent national media coverage. If you want to say that more whites are perps against other whites……..then you must tell the truth in reverse that it is even more common that a black man will kill one of his own race, and young people like Adeen need not have fear and hatred in her heart for the average white person. We don’t need to show a picture like this to put that across do we?

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  109. This group accounts for the overwhelming majority of all black crime. I’m not talking about black men. I’m not talking young black men in general. I’m talking about a very specific group of black men, who like disaffected middle easterner who join terror groups, are going through a bad phase. I, just like Roland Fryer, just like Boyce Watkins, and many others can look to a time when we could’ve easily gone the wrong way; but I had structures and people to keep me on the straight and narrow. My mother, my big sister, and step father were crazier than me. (I’ll have to write another comment.)

    Like


  110. @truthbetold

    Actually, as it turns out Jake England is not white, he is Native American. This is according to his family, and a quick google search of his picture will confirm that. His accomplice is white, but England is not.

    Although on the evening news tonight they continued to report both shooters were white, even as they showed their pictures.

    This is not to say he wasn’t targeting blacks, or that it wasn’t a hate crime. I’m sure it was, it just doesn’t fit the hollywood story of the racist white man.

    Like


  111. It’s like talking to deaf people sometimes because you have my old friend brothawolf constanly monitoring “white watch”, looking for any white on black crime that he can find. Then when we say “wait a minute ……….it happens the other way around as well…..in fact it is even more common” we are called the paranoid ones. WAKE UP. You are doing the same thing you are complaining about. You are acting like the scared white woman in the picture.

    Like


  112. bam………….i’m sorry I had to be harsh about it. But you need to put yourself in the other person’s shoes. I feel I’ve done that. You should try it.

    Like


  113. I have an associates degree and a bachelors degree(in math), and I’m working on a Masters degree(in Finance). Sure, my case can be dismissed as a subjective anecdote, or an exception that confirms the rule; but in as much as we’re willing to look to twin studies for IQ, how about twin studies with regard to general life outcomes. What if these black men came from intact families with parents that insisted they finish high school, kept them church, steered them into trade school or the military(don’t try to throw out the argument that they can’t pass the entrance exam, there’re prep courses for them). The problem is one of culture and structure.

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  114. I think I mentioned that I was in sales for a white……….It’s called bringing it down to the ridiculous……..like you are ridiculous if you can’t see my side on this, and have some of your black commenters take on some of the blame on how this has escalated.

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  115. Destructure:

    You are BANNED. There is no fucking way you can sit there and keep calling me “abadong”, even after I pointed it out, and expect to remain on this blog. Your dickheadedness shows that you are not one bit serious about anything discussed here.

    no no no NO!!! How did I miss this? How the fuck did I miss this? Oh well, I just need to find a way to put Bliff in “the right direction”…………..

    Like


  116. Long time lurker here. Just wanted to say
    :) @destructure being banned.

    I bet your not be able to come and be in the presence of “lesser humans” is killing you. You’re reading this foaming at the mouth. I’m glad you got kicked off. Now you can stay away from the people you despise so much! lol!!

    Like


  117. @ Dave,

    Honestly, I wouldn’t want you as my teacher, and I”m not even black. You’d spend too much time feeling victimized by people of color doing good in your classes and go out of your way to use immature excuses to sabotage their grades or mess with their confidence. I’ve had people like you teach me and work with me before. So yes, I’d say a young black person has plenty to fear from white people when they act polite yet think like a racist.

    Your doing exactly what is being talked about. First, you act like you care about Adeen and what she’s going to think about white people, but it’s all a show to concern-troll yourself into a “Oh, I’m the only person caring about this young black girl and I”m white!” position. But you know by the racist things you have said on this blog that you could care less about how she’s treated by white people, and odds are you’d defend it.

    Then you act like you, due to being white, are somehow being victimized by the “mean people” here as if you’ve got a actual reason to be afraid of someone who is black. Like black people have spent generations trying to harm you and your family, keeping them out of schools, jobs, or the voting booth under threats of constant violence . As if it was the Black Panther Party (instead of the Klan) who rose up to prominent positions in law enforcement, politics, schools and businesses. As if roving gangs of black men pulled your grandfather into a clearing and lynched him for bumping into a white girl in a crowded elevator. As if it were black men who bombed churches killing little white girls because they were so mad that you just wanted to be able to sit on a bus. If anything, black people have a reason to be scared of white people, but black people seem to have no problem looking past someone’s skin color. Why is it that it’s so hard for you to separate someone’s skin from their actions?

    Then you, like a child, demand someone here share responsibility for the “blame” of this “escalation”. It’s childish to say that “Oh, if you do it why can’t I?” Second of all, it doesn’t happen more often the other way around because, in those black on white crimes, black people were ARRESTED, TRIED, and often CONVICTED. They didn’t walk, they didn’t have over 90% of the black population supporting them, making excuses and blaming their victims. The “escalation” your claiming happened because people had to find some way to paint a murder victim into a “thug” even if it meant they had to lie,and insult the family to do so. That was not only low, but it was racist. Take responsibility? Well, there would have been no escalation if there was an arrest.

    Also…

    What’s with the Crips video? How does that even relate to anything? It’s not like black people all like the Crips, or support them 90%,..

    Like


  118. Destructure left you no choice , Abagond

    Nice article , Matari…and I just wanted to say something to you. You mentioned that it was great to come here to vent , and , these racists come in and turn it into something else.

    I realised after thinking about it, we need to hear your words in how you deal with these people. That is what it is about. We learn from how you answer them, you are a “mind warrior”. And, I think Abagond wants that diolougue.

    And, I learn things from you. Things about myself. Like when you are discussing the “whiteness” concept. I didnt get it at first, and, then I would re read it and say ” wow, now I understand what he is talking about”. Its that moment of not understanding that I , who think Im enlightened, come eyeball to eyeball with my white racism. That instant of not understanding is the impulse I have to fight against. I always knew that was the white man’s battle was to fight those impulses of racism that , as Abagond put, we are just raised with in our American society. Mine was not the racism of the blatent racist, it was the racism of for an instant not really understanding what you are saying about race, and jumping to the conclusion before really understanding it.

    So,right there, Im learning something from your words along with Brothawolf and Trughbetold, who discussed it with you

    Like


  119. Ace,

    Thank you!!!

    But if your message gets inside of dave’s head, it might last for day or two – and then he’ll forget it due to the demonic powers of whiteness!

    We’ve seen this happen here many times with Mr. d.

    Like


  120. [Research has shown that Black population growth is positively related to a range of social control outcomes, such as changes in police force size (Chamlin, 1989), police killings of Blacks (Jacobs and O’Brien, 1998), and harsher sentencing outcomes (Wang and Mears, 2010), as well as to punitive attitudes toward criminals (King and Wheelock, 2007). ]

    ***********************************************

    Deedee77

    This is very telling.. but it leaves out other staggering social attacks/controlling methods and factors such as DELIBERATE under-education via substandard schools/educators resulting in disillusionment, higher drop out rates, school to prison pipelines, last hired, first fired, twice the white unemployment rate (white men with criminal records are desired by employers more than black men without criminal histories), off shoring manufacturing jobs, broken families, paying higher interest rates for loans, the systemic destruction of once thriving black communities/neighborhoods, racial profiling by police, toxic waste polluting/poisoning areas occupied by PoC, conservatives appointed to the Supreme Court, an impotent BLACK president – and much, much more.

    The fact that America cages more people than any other nation and blacks are overrepresented (50%) in the US (slave labor) prison system due to obvious racist policies leaves no doubt that whiteness’ 400 hundred year WAR on black/brown people has been escalated in earnest.

    Like


  121. @Truthbetold
    You defeinitely are right.
    @Dave
    I have no fear or hatred in my heart of Whites but I have already experienced some hurtful experiences with Caucasians as well as with others. Heck, sometimes I can’t even trust my some of my own people because of internalized racism.
    @Ace
    Thank you. I get good grades and all but the students still teased me.

    I believe when you are Black in this world, you can’t trust others as much as you want to. They pretty much all turn on you. Michael Jackson was a great example of this too. He was a big star in the 1980s, and all and had all these ”friends”. I didn’t see all these ”friends” by his side when he was arrested and put on trial for child molestation. Only his family was by his side.

    Like


  122. A bunch of my posts got swallowed , there may be some posts of mine coming in saying the same thing….

    Like


  123. @ All

    Destructure’s name is moderated, but things like D*structure, etc, are not.

    Like


  124. @ brothawolf, icarumba

    Regarding the race of England…
    What I meant was, like Zimmerman, he was described as “white” at first. Then he transformed into an “other” when this case exploded due to whites not wanting to claim him as their own.

    @ dave
    Black people don’t need to put ourselves into anyone’s shoes.
    We are the shoe.

    Like


  125. @ dave

    Thanks for the gang video. Very telling. To counter that, may we list all the white gangs starting with law enforcement and ending with Wall Street? Great way to derail, by the way.

    Like


  126. “I didnt get it at first, and, then I would re read it and say ” wow, now I understand what he is talking about”. Its that moment of not understanding that I , who think Im enlightened, come eyeball to eyeball with my white racism. That instant of not understanding is the impulse I have to fight against. I always knew that was the white man’s battle was to fight those impulses of racism that , as Abagond put, we are just raised with in our American society. Mine was not the racism of the blatent racist, it was the racism of for an instant not really understanding what you are saying about race, and jumping to the conclusion before really understanding it.”

    ********************************

    B.R.

    Whiteness is like an invisible corrosive debilitating rust that affects (directly and/or indirectly) everything and everyone on the planet – in one form or another. The effects can range from slight/subtle to violent/horrific. I see it as a spiritual sickness. A few can recover from it, but it seems like most can’t, or won’t.

    I’ve known some seemingly nice, well mannered/meaning whites – who were blind to the racist influence white-supremacy/racism had on their thinking, POV, actions/decisions. The main issue I had with them was that I was summarily dismissed because they weren’t willing/able to deeply examine/look at “things” through the perspective of blacks and other non-whites. In the end, they wanted me to be quiet, or go away, because I was a prick/voice they could not bear/hear.

    Is there something other than music that draws you to black people?

    Like


  127. It is interesting how people will describe the shooters as “white” first, despite them not being so.

    First its a mestizo and then its a native american?

    Does it just not sell to report things as is?

    Are other PoC not as noteworthy for killing black people as white people doing it?

    As for the everyday people making the mistake; do they just hate white people so much they need to invent reasons now? I mean lets be honest, as a group we’ve done enough over the years and still do, that would seem to be unnecessary to me.

    White people don’t claim these people as white people; not because we are emberrassed by their actions or want to look bad, we still claim hitler after all and countless other criminals, dictators and others who commit hate crimes whether in the past or current.

    White people don’t claim these guys because they are not of our people.

    Inregards to the original post; so if by pure numbers black people kill 2x as many white people as white people kill black people, doesn’t that mean taking in relative purportions black people kill white people at 14x the rate white people kill black people?

    Also Abagond uses national numbers to show that it would still be a greater threat walking into a white neighborhood but works off the assumption that in the white neighborhood you would interact with more people than you would the black neighborhood.

    Which, due to racism, most people probably would but if your just randomly walking down the street probably not.

    But yeah; anybody who has a fear of the black race is a racist, that pretty much says it on its own as a statement.

    Like


  128. @ Bulanik
    In Randy’s eyes, anything that proves that blacks are human is dismissed. He never shares anything personal with us because he probably has had limited contact with coloureds.

    Like most racist whites, Randy’s point of view and “education” comes from the tele and false reports/documents/scientific studies on why blacks are inferior.

    Doug has a similar method and is a lawyer so he argues incessantly, unless he has a glass of Cabernet…Then who knows what he’ll say!
    LOL!

    Like


  129. Bulanik,

    You raise some interesting questions.

    I’m dismissive of sam’s stories because the main point being argued in this topic inherently statistical. As such, sam’s stories can be completely true and accurate but not affect the conclusion.

    Let me offer another example:

    Say that the question being argued is whether or not a motorcycle rider is justified in believing that not wearing a helmet exposes him or her to increased danger from accidents.

    To most people, the logical way to evaluate this argument would be to refer to accident stats.

    Then sam comes along and says how he’s ridden Harleys and sport bikes for years without a helmet and never suffered an injury.

    That story fundamentally cannot argue against the claim that not wearing a helmet exposes someone to greater danger.

    If sam doesn’t wear a helmet when he rides a motorcycle, he is clearly exposing himself to greater injury risk. He may choose to ignore that additional risk, but he can’t rationally deny its existence without statistical evidence, nor can he claim that other riders who choose to wear a helmet because of this risk are acting irrationally.

    Bulanik:

    If Sam’s “stories” corroborated your supposed “Ideas Under Study” in their mode of expression, would you have been so dismissive?

    Keep in mind that the point being argued is not, “Should white people be afraid of black people?”. If it were, then I would be predisposed to treating sam’s anecdotes more charitably.

    Instead, Abagond is arguing, “White people who fear black crime are doing so irrationally”. This requires a lower standard of evidence to argue against.

    I will say that in the interest of full intellectual honesty, I would probably personally view anecdotes which align with the available data more positively than those which don’t. However, this just isn’t a topic where anecdotes of any alignment would seem to work as an effective claim.

    Bulanik:

    Randy, you might believe this yourself, but unlike Sam, it’s not your style to share your own experiences on this blogsite very much.

    Actually, I’ve shared quite a lot of my own experiences and those of my family, particularly where I’ve felt that such stories have the potential to advance the debate.

    Regarding this particular topic, here’s a personal anecdote: both times I’ve been physically assaulted it’s been by groups of black “youths”. However, this has not discouraged me from having black friends, selecting a black flatmate, or chasing after a few lovely black ladies.

    Bulanik:

    It seems you prefer to use a type of semi-scientific, socio-philosophical turn of phrase.
    But, because you do, does it make what you say actually more credible?

    I’m glad you asked that question. The point of such language is to strive for greater precision, with clearer arguments in an attempt to purge one’s claims of fallacies and emotionalism.

    For me, like with everyone else, such a goal is a work in progress. I don’t claim to be particularly successful at it, only that I invest the effort to improve. If I’m attempting to engage someone in a topic of debate, I feel I owe it to them to be as rational in my arguments as possible.

    Like


  130. Matari, to answer your question , I was very privaleged to have parents that didnt participate in white flight , they moved us to an integrated neighborgood. My grade school was 50 percent black.

    And, I saw the hypocracy in society right away, and, I didnt abandon my relationships from grade school. My social background had a large amount of socialising with my black friends. So, black music was a natural part of my social experiance. For sure the soul music and James Brown we had at the parties. It seems I loved black music from the beginning, African music ( I had the first Olatunji record way before Drums of Passion, and can still rememeber one of the melodies), Calypso ( Harry Belafonte, maybe not authentic, but he was a great activist), Cuban (bongos and congas was my first instrument) , Brazilian (they showed Black Opheus on Chicago TV when I was about 10, and my Dad worked at a used book store and got me all these record used that Im talking about), and black American jazz ( one Art Blakey record was one side with bongos and congas and exploring Afro roots and the other side hoard core jazz I loved right away, and my first term paper in high school was about “THE BEBOP ERA)”.

    And I saw all this was black music and I understood the hypocracy of loveng these musics but bending to a racist society.

    I was very lucky, and, the people I was accepted by in the black American community they lived, were very special hip people, and , I value very much my association with them and it has made me what I am today in many respects

    Like


  131. on Mon 9 Apr 2012 at 16:00:48 mashiara4life

    @ D*structure Yay!! bye bye:-)

    @Abagond, great post as usual. I don’t even watch the local news anymore, it has made me start being parnoid against my own people-internalized racism at it’s best. I’m better now, but it is a daily process of renewing my mind.

    Like


  132. @truthbetold

    That one passed over your head so I’ll try again.

    ONE of the shooters in Tulsa was white. We are ‘accepting’ him as white, lol..The other, Jake England is NOT. He is native American, neither is Zimmerman, he is Hispanic. These are just the facts.

    So unless anyone who is non-black is white now, the media is obviously unfairly pinning these as hate crimes committed solely by white people. And that isn’t true. Even still, the media continues to refer all of them as white, when England and Zimmerman are NOT.

    This isn’t about whites changing their race because we can’t accept whites committing these crimes. Quite the opposite, its the media who is making these people white when they aren’t. It is just fact and the facts should be reported as such.

    It is the media and certain special interest groups that are having a difficult time accepting that Zimmerman and England aren’t white, because then it isn’t the classic hate crime.

    Like


  133. Hey Randy, were you on vacation?

    Like


  134. @ Bulanik

    Randy is the most objective commenter, of course.
    He is white. Whites are smarter (ask Doug).
    We coloureds can only argue emotionally whilst he argues logically.

    I’m a little perplexed as to why he can’t see we’re on to him.
    (they say denial is the first step to a mental breakdown. Ask Thordaddy).

    Like


  135. Whites often(always) think that they can just judge everyone and everything; they’ve this self deception and haughtiness which they use as a subterfuge for their misconduct and shortcomings due to their insecurities and the poor health of their psychological condition.
    Others (minorities; especially blacks) are always the culprit and they are always the good judges chosen personally by the Almighty God to represent him in judging others; because they (whites) are all excellent, fantabulous, sublime, superordinate judges and they have personally known every single person on earth to give a universal judgement! And above all, their judgement is never, or better still, can never be wrong.
    How ridiculous and miserable!

    Like


  136. @Bell
    What in the world are you supposed to mean?
    @B.R.
    I love hearing about Caucasian folks like you. I am sure that they are plenty of them out there, I know there are because I know some of them but there is not enough of them in my small, racist, Southern town. A lot of them in my town actually are small minded, racist and ignorant. Not all but alot.

    Like


  137. @ Matari:

    Excellent comment! Very well-written…

    Damn…I missed a happy event! One of the biggest trolls on here has finally gone bye-bye…
    * Does a happy dance *
    Gawds be praised! 😎

    Like


  138. @ Adeen
    Exactly what you understood!

    Like


  139. Hmm. I actually looked into relative risk and I don’t feel that it has been properly used here. It looks like a comparison was made with Blacks killing Blacks with Blacks killing Whites which are two different groups and wouldn’t accurately show relative risk when compared. Relative risk general deals more so with disease since controlled variables can be tested and the unknown factors are limited/avoided. Murder is not something that can have a controlled variable and cannot properly be understood using relative risk, IMO.

    @Matari
    I think since the Criminolgy journal focuses more on crime then those authors studies tended to focus on policies that directly impact the criminal justice system , like police force and harsher sentences. I’m sure that a sociological jornal would probably poitn out the information that you mentioned since those are more

    @Adeen

    I assumed Bell was being sarcastic.

    @Icarumba

    Hispanic is an ethnicity, not a race. So in the case of Zimmerman, his race could be identified as White just White with Hispanic origin. I rarely watch the news now a days so I can’t agree or disagree with your assessment of the racial protrayal of people who may have participated in hate crimes. But I feel that you may be overreacting and think that people cannot not see what is right in front of them. I don’t feel that evryone assumes hate crime = white offender but then again I can’t speak for everyone.

    @sepultura13

    LOL at your happy dance.

    Like


  140. Having some issues with the comment box..

    @Matari
    I think since the Criminolgy journal focuses more on crime then those authors studies tended to focus on policies that directly impact the criminal justice system , like police force and harsher sentences. I’m sure that a sociological journal would probably poitn out the information that you mentioned since those are more covert.

    Like


  141. “It is interesting how people will describe the shooters as “white” first, despite them not being so. … …
    White people don’t claim these people as white people..”

    “ONE of the shooters in Tulsa was white. We are ‘accepting’ him as white, lol..The other, Jake England is NOT. He is native American, neither is Zimmerman, he is Hispanic. These are just the facts.”

    ********************************

    v-4 & Icarumba

    Where do you guys live??

    Last time I looked, the US government asks/allows/permits indivduals to *SELF-IDENTIFY* their race on all sorts of forms, applications and documents.

    Race isn’t determined by a majority democratic concensus. It’s determined by the individual’s (preference) him/herself.

    You guys don’t get to decide who can pass and who can’t.

    If the person in question CAN PASS for white, is seen/described as white and chooses to identifies self as white, then that person IS white.

    If there is a FIXED determinant/boundary/blood-heriditary line that establishes a white person as a truly white person, please share with me EXACTLY what that is.

    What/where is that magical line that once crossed, a person becomes white, or nonwhite??

    Please descibe a pure white person?

    Given the one drop rule, what percentage of another race must be present in an otherwise white person to disqualify them as a white person?

    Like


  142. Bulanik,

    It’s disappointing that you bypassed an opportunity to rebut my comments with a logical argument in favor of an ad hominem one.

    Let me restate the argument:

    If Group A has a statistically significant higher rate of crime commission, why should it be considered inherently irrational for members of Groups A, B, and C to recognize those higher rates and feel concern?

    Herneith

    Hey Randy, were you on vacation?

    I was taking a bit of time for reflection. Miss me?

    Like


  143. “they moved us to an integrated neighborgood. My grade school was 50 percent black.”

    *******************************

    @B.R.

    “Neighborgood” may or may not be a typo — but I LIKE it much better than neighbor-HOOD — especially in this/your particular context.

    In fact, if there were real, actual, factual “neighborGOODs” in the world, we (the human race) would be a whole lot better off.

    Think about it. If humanity/people/groups/neighbors would/could absorb the best traits/talents/strengths each group/subculture/race had to offer the other wouldn’t everyone benefit??

    America had an opportunity/chance during the Reconstruction period that followed slavery to re-boot race relations and begin anew, but blew it big time!

    I don’t know if we’ll ever have another opportunity …

    Like


  144. Adeen, I really apreciete what you said. I have been following your posts about where you live, and, I wish I could give you a lot of hope for your future, because, your personality is going to take youi a long way, and, those poor chumps are just missing it.

    Ill tell you a story, there was a kind of thing girl, very dark, very nice, not quite deep into the hip crown I was running with. She kind of gave me the hint she wanted to take me to the prom, and, I as politly as posible declined , I had another girl I took, we were one of the only interracial couple at that prom, but not the only one. There was a back male freind of mine who took a white girl. For 67 , that was definitly bold.

    But, I kind of overlooked this girl, until three years later she emerged from a room at a college I was there to get a music gig. My jaw dropped and I had to catch my balance, she was drop dead gorgous, was modeling, looked like Naomi Cambel, I was drooling and just flapping in the wind….you are going to leave a lot of guys drooling and flapping in the wind, Adeen, dont worry about it

    Like


  145. “thin girl” ” hip crowd” ” black male”

    Like


  146. @Leigh/Sepultura

    Thanks

    Like


  147. To Truthbetold:

    What I meant was, like Zimmerman, he was described as “white” at first. Then he transformed into an “other” when this case exploded due to whites not wanting to claim him as their own.

    It changed when his own family came out and said he was Hispanic, this could have been a public relations ploy but then it was revealed that in his voter registration card from 2002 he self identified as Hispanic. As many people have stated Hispanic is an ethnicity which can encompass any race. Ask yourself, while looking at his most recently publicly available photo, if he could profiled as an illegal alien in Arizona..? Of course Latinos can certainly be virulently racist against Black people.

    Like


  148. I agree totaly, Matari. I cant tell you how blessed I was to be around the people I was . That is the crux of this post, white people dont really know black people and dont want to know them, They make assumptions , have fears, cant see the humanity, and arm themselves , cant see the enourmous obsticles that they themselves have put in the way, and fear that blacks are angry and racist.

    They dont take the time to have some kind of empathy for the struggle that has been so enourmous in the past.That carries over into today.

    I learned how to be a man hanging with my freinds, I admired so many black men ( meaning in the sence we went through puberty togetherand how we related to women) , how they dealt with life and dealt with the struggle. I admire so many black men and women, and they are my influences today.

    It was a misspelling , but, it was the truth, it was a neighborgood

    Adeen, by the way, I got in touch with that girl recently and we laughed about that

    Like


  149. “white people dont really know black people and dont want to know them, They make assumptions , have fears, cant see the humanity, and arm themselves , cant see the enourmous obsticles that they themselves have put in the way, and fear that blacks are angry and racist.”

    *****************************************

    B.R.

    I think many blacks do get angry – and very tired of the war/nonsense/racism that engulfs us, but not (yet) to the extent of going off, enraged and ready to do what many whites fear.

    But I don’t believe, as some do, that blacks can be racists. Biased, prejudiced, hateful, etc …. yes. Racist? No.

    Why do you think white folks collectively don’t want to know black people, and can’t/won’t see our humanity?

    Like


  150. @Matari“white people dont really know black people and dont want to know them, They make assumptions , have fears, cant see the humanity, and arm themselves , cant see the enourmous obsticles that they themselves have put in the way, and fear that blacks are angry and racist.”
    Is that realy true?
    @B.R.
    lol, the guy I liked didn’t like me back because I was Black and he is Black too. I was so mad and I am still mad. And I want to move out of the town I live in because I don’t like it at all. Maybe you are right. I am always overlooked by guys my age and I wonder why. What about me is turning them off? I want boyfriend but can’t seem to get one. I am pretty, smart, try to be nice, etc and guys still overlook me and all.
    I guess I am just like the girl you overlooked over 40 years ago! lol!

    Like


  151. @Dave

    It’s like talking to deaf people sometimes because you have my old friend brothawolf constanly monitoring “white watch”, looking for any white on black crime that he can find. Then when we say “wait a minute ……….it happens the other way around as well…..in fact it is even more common” we are called the paranoid ones. WAKE UP. You are doing the same thing you are complaining about. You are acting like the scared white woman in the picture.

    *SMH*

    Even if I was the kind of person hunting for any news on white-on-black crime, that does not make that more serious that the events themselves. The fact that you seem more agitated about the news report itself rather than the actual crime is telling, very telling.

    And how many times do people have to tell you that black-on-white crime is not as common as you may think? Sure, if you get your information from news reports and race realist sites that crank out that notion, then that would seem logical. But it isn’t.

    No one, including myself, is saying that black-on-white crime is less of a tragedy than white-on-black. All life is precious. However, it is not in epidemic proportions as some whites believe, nor are all of them racially motivated. But above all else, the biggest threat you have to worry about looks more like Brad Pitt as opposed to Lebron James.

    Like


  152. Absolutly , Brothawolf, and, I just dont see the problem about focusing on young black innocent males are open hunting season for some trigger happy white people who are afraid of black people

    Matari, I absolutly agree with you, and, what Brotherwolf mentioned before, I dont think black people are racist, they are back peddling against racism that white people invented.

    And, Ill use one example Adeen mentioned,The Nation of Islam,(by the way,one of my first mentors was a black Americn jazz musician who converted to Islam, which is differant from the Black Muslims)

    They used to say ” all white people are devils”, that doesnt leave much room for me to maneuver, but, even back then, I never considered the Black Muslims racist. I considered them people who had just had enough of living in the racist white man’s opresion and this is how they dealt with it. I dont judge it, I accept it and I look for people who dont exactly feel that way, who I can interact with. There will always be people that can meet on common ground, even by our ex blooger Thor’s definition, a black supremast and white supremast could walk hand in hand down the way and be united…

    Matari, I can only speculate to say that it is left over atitudes that have been passed down decades , the way wealth is passed down or poverty is passed down from generation to generation

    I look at some of these Ken Burns docus, The Cival War, Jazz , I missed Baseball, but , you see the old pictures, and , there we all are, the whites, from the north and south, locked in their bloody civil war and black Americans, as slaves , or afterwards subjected to Jim Crow laws , wite flight ghettos in the North….there we all are , entwined in some kind of eternal drama that seems to only evolve to new ways to express it…and some looking back at some old ways like lynchings and bared from athletics among other things that are just unconceivible to the imagination…is it any wonder there is black anger? And, why shouldnt black people be able to vent about that?

    talk to you below, Adeen

    Like


  153. @Bulanik

    Don’t you think your enduring habit of insulting other people’s intelligence, coarsens the debate?

    This is it in a nutshell – I salute you. Fortunately, I dont feel any less intelligent than people who take pains to highlight how much smarter they are than me whether overtly or implicitly but, its a ‘non starter’ in terms of trying to discuss things and get to the root of an issue.

    Like


  154. Adeen, that is a pretty name by the way, and, your picture shows you are very attractive…It makes me feel for you that you are getting these kind of reactions from the males around you…yes haha it is like my foolishness of not realising how incredible that girl looked.What can I say, I was blind….And guess what, when you get a chance in your life to travel, you are going to discover another world and lots of men that will show you a lot of attention.Ill tell you a secret, my wife also got a lot of rejection when she was young, but she is a drop dead knockout and has performed in New York, Rio, Miami, Sao Paulo, Los Angeles, Recife and other places and just knocks the audiences out. The guys that rejected her couldnt beleive when she came back in town that it was the same little girl they want nothing to do with.

    Young men your age really dont know anything, They have no idea what a real woman is they are wrapped up in images fed to them by a corporate media trying to make all of us people look like we are ugly and smell bad and that men and women should look like some manipulated , foto shopped , freak of nature models that they set unreal beauty standards that actualy are not so beautiful if you think about it.

    I hope I answered your other question about black racism above, and, I feel for you, but I know when you really get out there in the world you are going to be something really fantastic, and have men dropping all over themselves trying to get after you

    Like


  155. @ Bell
    I totally agree with you.

    Like


  156. “the guy I liked didn’t like me back because I was Black and he is Black too. I was so mad and I am still mad. And I want to move out of the town I live in because I don’t like it at all. Maybe you are right. I am always overlooked by
    guys my age and I wonder why. What about me is turning them off? I want boyfriend but can’t seem to get one. I am pretty, smart, try to be nice, etc and guys still overlook me and all.”

    ******************************************

    Dear Ms. McKenzie,

    When it’s the right time, the right young man will come into your life. I know you want what you want now, but just maybe the universe has someone and some things REALLY SPECIAL just for you, waiting in the wings for the right time when everything and everyone is in the right place …

    Now… I could be incorrect. But I might also be right. The choice is yours to make. Remember this – if you truly believe you are special, you’ll want someone in your life who is just as special and will treat you as the very, very special person you are. I and many others here think/believe/see that you ARE special.

    But you may have to wait a bit. In the meantime, as suggested, keep your “creep radar” turned ON, and always listen to what its telling you about whomever – so that you won’t be taken advantage of in any regretable ways. Life is full of challenges, and pitfalls. You’ll need to navigate yourself through the crossroads by making wise choices and good/smart decisions. One really bad mistake can set you back a ways … Learn from the mistakes you see others making – so you won’t have to make the same mistakes as well. Continue doing well in school and keep feeding your appetite for truth and wisdom.

    Be the person the Creator made you to be. In time everything else will be added to you. Good things come to those who wait. Remember that we’re rooting for you!

    Like


  157. Exactly what Matari said , and,Adeen, while Im at it, as much as you want attention from boys, I want your smart inqusitive mind to give some attention to the Miles Davis thread to tell me what you think of what Ive said about black American concepts and Afro diasporic concepts

    Like


  158. http://takimag.com/article/the_talk_nonblack_version_john_derbyshire/print#axzz1raWmm1nd

    Looks like John Derbyshire took a few notes out of Abagond’s “white racist guide to black crime”. I am still surprise he felt so reassured in writing something like this. At least her was fired from National Review.

    Like


  159. Deedee

    I read that link.

    SMH

    If this is what whites are GENERALLY passing down to their children, racism will be permanent.No ifs, ands or buts! America is lost.

    Like


  160. @ Deedee7789

    You know what’s sad about this filth? So many white Americans BELIEVE it to be true. I began to notice that something was missing in the hearts of most whites. I couldn’t put my finger on it for the longest time. Was it lack of culture? Understanding? Empathy? Feeling?

    When I got older and realized that whites have separated themselves, made themselves into this cold, unfeeling, depressed monolithic group of people, I felt dizzy by my discovery.

    This is the talk, eh? So we’re NOT crazy after all. You know something, every time I start to question my own sanity, ( I do that a lot these days…) I have some real, tangible proof that my “suspicions” are indeed real.

    ( Please see the example I posted on open thread.)

    Like


  161. @Matari
    Thank you but I see many people my age with boyfriends and all. Even freshmen and I am not a freshmen at all. I just want a guy who will treat me nicely and love me for me.

    I want to be a writer when I grow up and go out, get famous and live in a nice house. I also want to meet a lot of people

    Like


  162. @Matari
    I am a young Black teen and yeah I believe that you are right on that. A lot of Whites are passing down their racist beliefs to their children because the movie, Hunger Games had about two or three Black characters and White TEENS were making racist comments about it on Twitter. I don’t Twitter and but I have a facebook but if I did have a Twitter, I wouldn’t add these racist people on my Twitter. Anways they called the little Black girl who played Rou the movie a Black b word and crap like that. It was so horrible because these people were probably around my age. I was shocked how young the faces were! I thought the older Whites were the mainly racist ones not the ones around my age.
    Sadly to tell the truth, we are NOT living in postracial America. I would like to live in a world, where race and skin color doen’t matter but their character. We have a long way to go before that happens.

    Like


  163. Bulanik:

    Because Sam’s argument didn’t support yours, that doesn’t make his commentary of a lower order.

    […]

    Don’t you think your enduring habit of insulting other people’s intelligence, coarsens the debate?

    Sam’s comment wasn’t relevant, as I’ve argued with 2 separate examples. Neither you nor he offered a rebuttal as to why you think it is.

    To recap:

    If Group A has a statistically significant higher rate of crime commission, why should it be considered inherently irrational for members of Groups A, B, and C to recognize those higher rates and feel concern?

    Like


  164. @Randy

    RECONSIDERING THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN PERCEIVED NEIGHBORHOOD RACIAL COMPOSITION AND WHITES’ PERCEPTIONS OF VICTIMIZATION RISK: DO RACIAL STEREOTYPES MATTER?

    JUSTIN T. PICKETT,TED CHIRICOS,KRISTIN M. GOLDEN,MARC GERTZ

    From Criminology Journal. Published February 2012.

    Read that for your rebuttal. The fear is not based on actual risk of crime but just based off of stereotypes from media, statistics, etc. The fear is heigthened by the presence of Black people but there is no actual increase in crime when the black masses in a community increases. So fearing the person without knowing their character/background is irrational, IMO.

    Like


  165. Truthbetold, it sure seems like a part of the heart that deals with “race”, has just turned to cold stone….for sure arguing with people who cant ackowledge basic humanity, who have dogmad statistics to throw in the face of blatent realities , we see it over and over, that is stone cold

    Like


  166. To deedee7789:

    RECONSIDERING THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN PERCEIVED NEIGHBORHOOD RACIAL COMPOSITION AND WHITES’ PERCEPTIONS OF VICTIMIZATION RISK: DO RACIAL STEREOTYPES MATTER?
    JUSTIN T. PICKETT,TED CHIRICOS,KRISTIN M. GOLDEN,MARC GERTZ

    Did they research the attitudes of Latinos, people of Middle Eastern Decent, or Asians to lower income Black urban areas…? (Or for that matter middle to upper class Black people….?) I suspect not. It’s pretty easy to skewer social research.

    Read that for your rebuttal. The fear is not based on actual risk of crime but just based off of stereotypes from media, statistics, etc.

    They didn’t claim that there was not a risk of crime in certain neighborhoods…..they stated that in poor, dense neighborhoods high crime figures were not related to race.

    That doesn’t really match my experiences.. at least not for violent crime.

    Like


  167. @DeeDee7789
    I agree 100% But why do a lot of Whites fear Blacks like me when we have’t done much harm to Whites? I just don’t get it. This DOESN’T GO TO ALL Whites but to A LOT OF THEM.
    Not all Whites are racist. No discussion on that.

    Like


  168. Also

    THE CENTRAL PLACE OF RACE IN CRIME
    AND JUSTICE—THE AMERICAN SOCIETY
    OF CRIMINOLOGY’S 2011 SUTHERLAND
    ADDRESS∗

    RUTH D. PETERSON. Criminology Journal published March 2012.

    Goes along with Matari comment about how social inequality is the main contributor for crime disparities amoung racial lines.

    Like


  169. To Adeen:
    I agree 100% But why do a lot of Whites fear Blacks like me when we have’t done much harm to Whites? I just don’t get it.

    I really doubt many Whites would fear you Adeen… I suspect if Whites avoid you (in your small Southern town..) they just don’t have any interest in you or Black people in general. I hate to say it but that’s what I have encountered fairly often with rural Southern Whites.

    I don’t think that would be the case where I live. (the San Francisco Bay Area…)

    Like


  170. @Uncle Milton

    The Criminology Journals I noticed were in the Wiley online library. I’m sure doing a search would help but it might be better to look through crimonology books, other journals for more insight about the thoughts of other minorities.

    .They didn’t claim that there was not a risk of crime in certain neighborhoods…. I didn’t either, I mentioned that the actual risk of crime is not the source for the fear that some Whites experience. I have a question, How segregated is your community? The strange thing is that fairly integrated communities generally have less crime then highly segreagted ones. Insn’t that interesting?

    Like


  171. @Uncle Milton
    How do you know this? Most of the Caucasian students in my Chemistry class avoid me and talk to their own and only talk to Blacks only if they are mixed. And the Black students kind of form their own groups. I don’t fit in with either and keep to myself. I wonder why I don’t fit in with either group?

    I used to live in New York, Brooklyn to be exact and I was born in Manhattan. Yeah, of course, it will be different from where you live.

    Like


  172. To deedee7789:

    I have a question, How segregated is your community?

    I live on the border between two towns one is 48% White and 67% White… assuming when you asked about segregation you wanted to know about the percentage of Whites.

    The strange thing is that fairly integrated communities generally have less crime then highly segreagted ones. Insn’t that interesting?

    How are they defining highly segregated?

    The lowest states for violent crime per capita in the US are also all rather White:
    Maine (50th), North Dakota (49th) ,Vermont (48th), New Hampshire (47th) and South Dakota (46th).

    http://www.census.gov/statab/ranks/rank21.html

    Does that mean they are segregated…?

    Like


  173. Adeen, you have told us you have good grades. In a short time, you will have some choices and you can change your situation. And you know what, my cool , performed all over like mom, hard hitting do the splits james brown style son, is having the exact same problem you are having….hang in there !!!

    Those atitudes you are dealing with from both sides are stiff. They create the type of thing this thread is about. Its not you

    Like


  174. @Uncle Milton give me a sec I need to see about something.

    Like


  175. To Adeen:

    How do you know this?
    How do I know they don’t fear you..? Because you don’t look frightening.
    But of course I am just guessing as to what they are thinking.

    Most of the Caucasian students in my Chemistry class avoid me and talk to their own and only talk to Blacks only if they are mixed.

    I am certainly not saying their behavior isn’t wrong or discomforting.. but I don’t think their reaction is one of fear. I would suggest that being from Manhattan makes you a double outsider in their eyes.

    Like


  176. To deedee7789:

    @Uncle Milton give me a sec I need to see about something.
    No problem.. OT but it seems that all of our posts have gone bold…

    Like


  177. @truthbetold, Ace, Matari, B. R, Adeen, and anyone else.

    Thanks for the gang video. Very telling. To counter that, may we list all the white gangs starting with law enforcement and ending with Wall Street? Great way to derail, by the way.

    I dealt with Dave for a long time, and he’s pretty much everything what Ace has said in response to his comments. Basically, he loves to go on this “I’m the real victim, please feel sorry for me and white people” tirade while believing and preaching that the real evils in America come in black skin. To him most victims are innocent, hard working whites at the hands of random blacks. On top of that, he has a habit of derailing threads and belittling other people if he gets worked up enough.

    He may seem like he’s concerned at first, but then will sink into his white racial mindset and will join in on the bandwagon of blaming blacks for crime and violence as if we are the only ones who engage in that shit, or we are the kings and queens of criminality in this society.

    So, he’s no different than Bliff, Doug, Randy, Brahms, or the now discarded Dick-structure.

    Like


  178. To Brahms:
    Until decent black people stand to up to the racist mindset of “keeping it real”, there is no hope.

    From my experience of living and then owning rental properties in heavily Black neighborhoods.. there are definitely many Black people who have no problems calling the police or their landlord (me ..) to report criminal behavior in their midst.

    Like


  179. @Uncle Milton

    The populations of those states are also fairly small. Around 1.4mill being the highest population for the less crime ridden state. Around $46k median
    income being the lowest, fairly middle class states. Higher income generally means better access to resources and less factors that contribute to crime. Then dealing with a small population also helps with ease of distributing governmental resourses and public safety.

    That is the only reason I can see to why those states that are preodminately white would have less crime than other states that are also predominately white (like Kentucky-40, Ohio-27, Pennsylvania-21) which each has significantly higher populations, around the same middle income, and more crime then the states that you mentioned. But you do bring up a really good point.

    *note sorry if bold stays around, I forgot the closing bracket in a earlier post. Apoplogies! *

    Like


  180. *Apologies, apparently I can’t spell at night D:

    Like


  181. @B.R.
    ”Those atitudes you are dealing with from both sides are stiff. They create the type of thing this thread is about. Its not yI am certainly not saying their behavior isn’t wrong or discomforting.. but I don’t think their reaction is one of fear. I would suggest that being from Manhattan makes you a double outsider in their eyes.”
    I am alwas an outsider at school because I don’t fit in.

    Like


  182. “Goes along with Matari comment about how social inequality is the main contributor for crime disparities amoung racial lines.”

    ********************

    Ummm … Deedee, where did I say or imply that? Might you be referring to my response to your post below?

    [Research has shown that Black population growth is positively related to a range of social control outcomes, such as changes in police force size (Chamlin, 1989), police killings of Blacks (Jacobs and O’Brien, 1998), and harsher sentencing outcomes (Wang and Mears, 2010), as well as to punitive attitudes toward criminals (King and Wheelock, 2007). ]

    ***********************************************

    This is very telling.. but it leaves out other social attacks/controlling methods and factors such as DELIBERATE under-education via substandard schools/educators resulting in higher drop out rates, school to prison pipelines, last hired, first fired, twice the white unemployment rate (white men with criminal records are desired by employers more than black men without a criminal history), off shoring manufacturing jobs, paying higher interest rates for loans, the destruction of once thriving black communities/neighborhoods, racial profiling by police, toxic waste polluting/poisoning areas occupied by PoC, conservatives appointed to the Supreme Court, an impotent black president – and more.

    The fact that America cages more people than any other nation and blacks are overrepresented (50%) in the US (slave labor) prison system due to obvious racist policies leaves no doubt that whiteness’ 400 hundred year WAR on black/brown people has been elevated in earnest.

    In many ways we are quickly moving backwards away from the gains we realized in 60’s.

    Like


  183. @Matari

    Yes, I interpreted your reposonse as social inequality factors that contribute to racial disparities of crime. Correct me if I’m wrong.

    Like


  184. To deedee7789:

    *note sorry if bold stays around, I forgot the closing bracket in a earlier post. Apoplogies! * ? Interesting….. I added a closing bold html tag to see if that would make the bold text go away from here on out.

    Like


  185. “Most of the Caucasian students in my Chemistry class avoid me and talk to their own and only talk to Blacks only if they are mixed. And the Black students kind of form their own groups. I don’t fit in with either and keep to myself. I wonder why I don’t fit in with either group? ”

    *****************************************

    Because you are REALLY very SPECIAL … and some people just find it hard to relate (or know what to do with or say to people LIKE YOU who are confident, secure, strong, ambitious, smart, know where they’re going in life and in-touch with their inner self. Just keep being YOU, and the right “real people” will show up and befriend you.

    Life may not feel great right now, but all is well. If you keep a journal, you’ll be able to see, over time, how life’s challenges work themselves out as you grow and mature.

    Like


  186. “Yes, I interpreted your reposonse as social inequality factors that contribute to racial disparities of crime. Correct me if I’m wrong.”

    ***************

    Okay… but where did I write, suggest or imply that?

    Like


  187. To deedee7789:

    OT: Since we are coming off two important religious holidays I thought I would repost this positive story:

    Found a report about these 8 year old twins whose parents emigrated from Nigeria:

    http://africanspotlight.com/2012/03/nigerian-8-year-old-twins-break-world-mathematics-record-video/

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/berkshire/8542694.stm

    “Paula and Peter Imafidon are among hundreds of thousands of other children who are finding out which secondary school they will attend.
    Peter and Paula, from Waltham Forest, east London, are two years younger than most of their counterparts.
    Dubbed the “Wonder Twins”, they broke records when they passed A/AS-level mathematics papers at the age of seven.
    A year later they took and passed the University of Cambridge’s Advanced Mathematics (FAM) paper, becoming the youngest students ever to pass the rigorous examinations.

    Their father:
    http://www.uel.ac.uk/ace/staff/chrisimafidon/

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/7338171/Twins-to-become-youngest-secondary-school-pupils.html

    Mr Imafidon and his wife Ann came to Britain from Nigeria more than 30 years ago and have three other high-achieving children.
    Their eldest daughter, Anne-Marie, now 20, is the youngest girl ever to pass A-level computing, at 13.
    She won a British Government scholarship to undertake undergraduate studies at Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore, USA.
    Christiana, 17, is the youngest schoolgirl ever to study at undergraduate level in any British University at the age of 11.
    Samantha, now 12, passed two GCSEs in mathematics and statistics at the age of six and mentored the twins to pass their own maths GCSE when they were six.
    All the siblings took part in the Excellence in Education programme for inner city children.
    Mr Imafidon attributed their achievements to their talents being nurtured – not to them being “geniuses”.
    He saud: “Every child is a genius. Once you identify the talent of a child and put them in the environment that will nurture that talent then the sky is the limit. Look at Tiger Woods, or the Williams sisters – they were nurtured.”
    Paula hopes to become a maths teacher while Peter’s ambition is to become Prime Minister.
    Mr Imafidon added: “You can never rule anything out with them, the competition between the two of them makes them excel in anything they do.

    Like


  188. Deedee,

    After rereading the comment a couple of more times I now see how/why it could be interpreted the way you see it, although that wasn’t what I was trying to say. : )

    Basically, I’m saying – or trying to say – that whiteness is ratcheding up the war against black people on multiple fronts. Things aren’t getting better, they’re getting worse.

    Like


  189. Brothawolf, I understand your frustration. I can never understand why Dave cant let black people and anyone else who is concerned, be upset and focus on young innocent black people getting shot, whether from the police , or over zeolous John Wayne types freaked out by a hoodie…these are speciic things that demand specific attention. Whites always derail that with a “black crime” argument

    Like


  190. ….and then they mistake black concern and anger for black racism.For sure there is something aboiut black anger that white people cant face and dont want to hear

    Like


  191. Bulanik,

    I could grant you all your points, but you would still be left with crime statistics which, according to 2009 figures, indicate that black persons commit violent crime at a rate which is over 200% of their fraction of the population.

    No amount of stereotype analysis can eliminate this fact.

    Like


  192. _ deedee7789

    @Adeen
    “I assumed Bell was being sarcastic”.

    Yes deedee7789, you’re right i was only being sarcastic.

    Although i expressed myself in an inelegant way; I stooped to most of white people’s low mentality when i said ” Blacks are always the culprit and they are always the good judges chosen personally by the Almighty God to represent him in judging others; because they (whites) are all excellent, fantabulous, sublime, superordinate judges and they have personally known every single person on earth to give a universal judgement. And above all, their judgement is never, or better still, can never be wrong etc, ect “, i repeat, i was being sarcastic!!; which I’m not used to because it is not part of me but I had to because whites (not all) don’t hesitate in lumping black people together especially when it comes to crime, negativity, awkwardness, etc, etc.
    They(most of them) just don’t know how to individualise people due to their ignorance and close- mindedness.
    I hate it when I’m being told ” you’re different, you’re a black by accident”, it enrages me! Because it is an insult to my race.

    Like


  193. You’ll pay for what you’ve done Abagond. I WILL have her soul!!!

    Like


  194. @Matari

    The fact that America cages more people than any other nation and blacks are overrepresented (50%) in the US (slave labor) prison system due to obvious racist policies

    Obvious racist policies?? How about blacks can’t follow the rules of society like everybody is supposed to. Apparently everyone else, but the blacks, can follow the rules. Take some damn responsibility for once!! The blacks are in jail because they committed the crime.

    Like


  195. @ Bliff

    Let’s make a deal.
    We’ll take responsibility when YOU do.
    How’s that?

    Like


  196. I guess Bliff doesnt know about the 1937 tax act that put into effect law enforcement that targeted specificly minorities like blacks and mexicans. Its one of the biggest shams in history, totaly fueling the corporate prisons that depend on a steady influx of business since corporate mentality can ony think of profit.

    Incarcaration for drug laws is ridiculas, and far more blacks are put in jail for marijuana , lets say, and do you really think whites smoke less marijuana? You really think they are smarter and that is why they dont get busted more?

    Like


  197. Spliff,

    LOL

    It must be nice/convenient/handy to have such white privilege at one’s disposal – privilege which allows you to blatantly overlook/ignore all sorts of racist/racial factors/data that explains why a wide gulf exists between black and white incarceration rates.

    * Just when the air/scent around here was starting to get back to normal, more or less … sigh *

    Like


  198. “BR,
    I guess Bliff doesnt know about the 1937 tax act that put into effect law enforcement that targeted specificly minorities like blacks and mexicans.”

    You are so on point. Unforturnately, many Americans don’t understand how their country or government operates…it’s not about ethics or morality, it’s about the “almighty dollar”

    In my neighborhood, the city wants to build a new “private” prison for immigrants, owned and operated by CCA, a company that is the 3rd largest builder of “privated” prisons in US and is a very profitable corporations that trade stocks on NYSE ..below a link to their investor relations page

    http://ir.correctionscorp.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=117983&p=irol-homeProfile&t=&id=&

    they get paid by the Federal government daily “per head” for each prisoner incarcerated and the best part about this is, with detained immigrants, they do not have the rights to a lawyer or to a speedy trial, so these people can stay in jail months to years before they will see a judge to determine their status

    How does a publicly traded corporation that builds private prisons keep up it’s “sales” in order to be listed on the stock exchange? by bringing in more bodies…and they need the judicial system to help them achieve this.

    Like


  199. @Adeen

    You aren’t the only person on this blog who has dealt with the Mason-Dixon divide. I moved from Brooklyn to Georgia in the early 90’s. For my last two years of high school, all of my “friends” were nerds (and as I discovered upon graduation, they befriended me for protection. Because, you see, almost all of my classmates convinced themselves that I was a psycho-killer hip hop archetype…)

    @Uncle Milton

    I lived in North Dakota for 3 years. After Year No. 1, I stopped visiting night clubs and bars in the local town due to intoxicated driving and various types of violence (domestic, drunken, long-simmering, etc.). I’m not even joking, the cops wouldn’t even bother to end hostilities if weapons weren’t involved in the altercation. Do you have *any* idea of how many warrants are docketed due to profiling? If so, can you imagine the amount of “victimless” (yet still harmful) crimes that go unpunished because the police in an area are unwilling or politically *unable* to levy charges on the suspect(s)? I worked with a guy who was arrested and found guilty of DUI on *6* separate occasions prior to his 21st birthday (3 of the 6 times involved a separate passenger, 2 of the 3 passenger-present incidents led to the injury of the innocent party. He didn’t receive a *day* of jail time or rehab, just probation.) I worked with white North Dakotans who blithely admitted to stealing and joyriding in their neighbours’ cars, beating their high school and college girlfriends, using that “crystal”, putting “rez trash” in hospital, setting fires, etc.; yet they were able to procure all forms of employment (including government jobs) with ease, because “that was what I did when I was young and stupid (I’ll note that the majority of these people were under 30, I left the state prior to the oil boom.) Crime rate statistics are dross, IMHO, for that reason. If you have one set of people who are all but guaranteed to receive jail time/juvie for any act more serious than breaking a neighbour’s window, and one set of people who can (let’s say) put their current hook-up partner/one night stand in intensive care/coma because they’re driving drunk and they didn’t see that tree until it was too late (yeah, because the Dakotas are known for their trees, lol) and only receive probation, then the stats are *wrong*.

    Like


  200. “Crime rate statistics are dross, IMHO, for that reason. If you have one set of people who are all but guaranteed to receive jail time/juvie for any act more serious than breaking a neighbour’s window, and one set of people who can (let’s say) put their current hook-up partner/one night stand in intensive care/coma because they’re driving drunk and they didn’t see that tree until it was too late (yeah, because the Dakotas are known for their trees, lol) and only receive probation, then the stats are *wrong*.”

    ********************************

    Thank YOU, MaMu1977 !!!
    These compiled stats aren’t just wrong, they are grossly wrong and appallingly biased! Yet, most folks amazingly treat these compilations as if they were absolutely factual, in spite of the growing body of evidence to the contrary.

    Like


  201. Great info Linda and Mumu

    Like


  202. @Bliff

    Obvious racist policies?? How about blacks can’t follow the rules of society like everybody is supposed to. Apparently everyone else, but the blacks, can follow the rules. Take some damn responsibility for once!! The blacks are in jail because they committed the crime.

    You are the LAST person to be talking about taking responsibility when you are unwilling to follow your own damn advice. And your obvious lack of critical thinking is another reason why no one with good sense should listen to you on race matters when you’re clearly still in the dark and prefer it that way.

    Like


  203. @ Bliff,

    Except for the fact that blacks have been following the “rules” of society since the moment they were free to do so (and even when they weren’t free). In fact, historically, witnesses (white and black) say that black people were more formal and law abiding than white people were just because there was this huge disproportionate response to anything that could be deemed as inappropriate. It’s not black people’s fault that people like you fail to take responsibility for your own social failings and need someone to blame everything on. If it wasn’t “crime” it be wedlock births or something silly to that effect.

    Also, maybe you should follow your own advice.

    Like


  204. @MaMu1977
    Thanks I deal with it everyday and I am sick of it. Plus everyone thinks I am this weird freak who keeps to herself and loves to write.

    People of all races should take responsibilty for their crimes whether they be White, Black etc.
    Racism against Blacks and any racial and ethnic group stems out of ignorance and stereotypes. Once you fear and hate that person and you dwell on it, it becomes racism as well as racist actions. I just don’t get how people can hate and put down other races of people. I find those people very insecure.

    Like


  205. @B.R

    1937 tax act If you’re talking about the Marijuana 1937Act, that has not been in effect since 1969. It was passed because of the rising use of marijuana and because illegal Mexicans were coming across the border with it. So what? Both legit – control a drug use and discourage illegal Mexicans from coming in.

    Where did you get the idea fueling the 1937 act “fueled corporate prisons “> There’s no such connection. You are B.eyond R.eason on this one.

    Blacks are jailed more for maijuana use because they are caught dealing it and plead down to possession. In general, there are more blacks in prison for drugs because of the strong police effort against the gang activity and violence associated with black drug dealings. There is far less of this with white drug use.

    Like


  206. @Ace

    In fact, historically, witnesses (white and black) say that black people were more formal and law abiding than white people

    Ace, just exactly where did you come up with this gem. Something Mama told you?? Go jump back in the pool.

    maybe you should follow your own advice.

    And do you have any example of me not following my own advice. Funny if you do, because you have no idea who I am.

    Like


  207. @ Bliff,

    “Ace, just exactly where did you come up with this gem. Something Mama told you?? Go jump back in the pool.”

    No, that’s what an education taught me. You know that thing where you have to LEARN about people who don’t look just like you? I know that’s tough for you to grasp but the world isn’t what your racist mind has imagined it to be, and you know you’ve made no effort to learn anything about black history so you likely wouldn’t know anything about it either way.

    And “mama”? Really? Is that another little racist gem from you?

    “And do you have any example of me not following my own advice. Funny if you do, because you have no idea who I am.”

    Constantly. You lack civility, you regress to childish insults and you can’t handle any arguments that don’t fit your narrow little white supremacist world view. You can’t handle treating any potential black person here with any respect, yet you talk about following “societies rules”. You also seem incapable of taking responsibility for your words, viewpoints, or the implications that they cause, yet another example of you not practicing your own advice.

    Even your post about blacks “failing to take responsibility” seems more like a failing attempt to create a red herring to point fingers at than to actually discuss something Abagond has posted.

    Like


  208. @Matari

    It must be nice/convenient/handy to have such white privilege

    I wouldn’t know, Matari, since there is no such thing as “white privilege”. You’re looking at the black-white thing all wrong. It’s not that whites have reserved a place on high for ourselves, it’s just that blacks can’t measure up. Whites built this country and the “white privilege” that we supposedly have is just us enjoying the fruits of our own labor.

    sorts of racist/racial factors/data that explains why a wide gulf exists between black and white incarceration rates.

    B.S. More blacks are in prison because they comit more crime. Why don’t blacks take more responsibility for their actions?? Then maybe whites may think better of them.

    Like


  209. @Ace

    You can’t handle treating any potential black person here with any respect,

    I don’t a lot of people here with respect because their Black Racist POV does not deserve any respect. This is not some fair blog where the issues are fairly discussed – this is a black blog in which white people are bashed all the time and the Black Racist POV is predominate.

    Like


  210. “Bliff,

    It’s not that whites have reserved a place on high for ourselves, it’s just that blacks can’t measure up. Whites built this country and the “white privilege” that we supposedly have is just us enjoying the fruits of our own labor.”

    And this statement you made, Bliff, is just so respectful and tasteful on a blog with majority “black” participants….this is the sort of statement that just begs for black posters to be considerate and have an open discussion with you (sarcasm in case you missed it)

    The one thing I give credit to this blog concerning white commentors like you is that most black posters call out people who trash talk and write total bullsh’t when they see it….if the shoe fits Bliff, hopefully you don’t get bunions.

    Like


  211. Oh Bliff, you act like slavery never existed, I cant beleive it

    Its been proven that Anslinger was in cahoots with Randolph Hearst and they made tremendously absurd movies like Reefer Madness, and there was lots of preasure and blame put on black people and mexicans.

    Who cares if the 37 tax act changed, it is what started it, its ridiculas legislation and the corporate prisons that have been spoken about well here, were a result down the line of how to perpetuate this incarcaration frenzy especialy directed at black people and minorities. White people smoke more than anyone, you really think they are so slick to not get caught ? No one should go to jail for buying or selling cannibas…doctors are perscribing it for pain

    Like


  212. @ Bliff,

    “I don’t a lot of people here with respect because their Black Racist POV does not deserve any respect. This is not some fair blog where the issues are fairly discussed – this is a black blog in which white people are bashed all the time and the Black Racist POV is predominate.”

    Because anything that portrays black people in any positive light is “black racist POV”, right? You don’t fairly discuss issues and you don’t regard black people with any respect. The fact that you’ve gone to constantly assume that people who disagree with you are black (so that you can subsequently insult them) proves that fact. ((How is someone a “black racist” when they are neither black nor racist?)) You’ve been so warped by your views that you think anything that doesn’t result in black people being insulted or “put in their place” is somehow racist against you.

    You want to know why you get the response you do here, while Sam does not?

    Your viewpoint is slanted and base. It’s nothing but anti-intellectual blathering made to cater to your failing ego by claiming you deserve privilege you did nothing to earn. You feel that you deserve it due to latching onto the coattails of people who’s success you’ve had nothing to do with. You don’t deserve to sit on a pedestal and judge non-whites as if white people had nothing to do with the problems that exist today. Crime didn’t suddenly appear when black people got rights, and obsessing over someone else’s race as if that will determine who will be violent is just plain stupid. It is. Because if people truly used that logic, white people would be the biggest mass of frothing madmen on the face of the planet. That is why it is racists to fear black people. Because if anyone has done anything to earn that fear and hatred, it’s people who are proud of the fact that they managed to decimate entire races of people because they felt entitled to do so.

    You choose to ignore inequality, black success, or any black point of view that doesn’t pander to your own. You are insulting and less than respectful, and even your arguments aren’t “fair”, they’re just a series of falsities and aggression. Your like Glenn Beck. You stamp your feet and say horrible things, then recoil and cry like a petulant child when people don’t cater to your “point of view” above all others. Frankly, in my opinion, your fortunate that Abagond is willing to allow you to post here yet you can’t even offer the slightest ounce of respect because you couldn’t handle being civil to a person of color if they aren’t kissing your butt and letting you depreciate them. Like a typical racist, white man.

    Like


  213. “I don’t a lot of people here with respect because their Black Racist POV does not deserve any respect. This is not some fair blog where the issues are fairly discussed – this is a black blog in which white people are bashed all the time and the Black Racist POV is predominate.”

    *************************

    Back from your little vacation already???
    You do know that your comrade in arms – destructionator – has earned his banishment from here during your too short absence.

    Actually, this is not a black blog, this is “Abagond’s” blog.

    Since you’ve been too ridiculous to notice, people (NOT TROLLS) of all types and colors, from all walks of life enjoy this site and each other. He’s one of the most fair/patient people I know. Much, much more tolerant than I could ever be when rude racist intruders (like YOU) keep popping in, uninvited and overstay their visits.

    Abagond is so fair that he even deems himself a racist, something that I personally believe no non-white person can be or achieve. It would take black people 400 years to mimic/replicate what white-supremacy aka whiteness has accomplished, and still doing.

    No such thing as white privilege?? How many spliffs have you smoked Bliff – lol, lay off the weed… and maybe its time you quit swallowing those delusions rendering blue pills, too.

    I’m going to miss your silly troll gimmicks – for a millisecond – when you get yourself banned. : ))

    Like


  214. And the sad part about this is that he believes the shit he says on here.

    Ace said: maybe you should follow your own advice.

    Bliff said: And do you have any example of me not following my own advice. Funny if you do, because you have no idea who I am.

    But Bliff knows who we are as black people. That makes sense.

    Blacks are jailed more for maijuana use because they are caught dealing it and plead down to possession. In general, there are more blacks in prison for drugs because of the strong police effort against the gang activity and violence associated with black drug dealings. There is far less of this with white drug use.

    Oh yeah. It’s just that simple to a simpleton. Black people are simply the biggest drug dealers and users in this nation. SMH

    …There is no such thing as “white privilege”. You’re looking at the black-white thing all wrong. It’s not that whites have reserved a place on high for ourselves, it’s just that blacks can’t measure up. Whites built this country and the “white privilege” that we supposedly have is just us enjoying the fruits of our own labor.

    More blacks are in prison because they comit more crime. Why don’t blacks take more responsibility for their actions?? Then maybe whites may think better of them.

    As always it’s the blacks fault for being black, and neither the fault of white racism, white privilege and white supremacy. Those are just figments of the collective black imagination. Only black people must take responsibility for their fuck-ups, never whites because they are saints. Double SMH.

    I don’t a lot of people here with respect because their Black Racist POV does not deserve any respect. This is not some fair blog where the issues are fairly discussed – this is a black blog in which white people are bashed all the time and the Black Racist POV is predominate.

    Yet, we should respect your white racist POV? What makes it so important that it’s the only POV that your goofy ass would accept? Your mind closes itself like a Venus fly trap whenever any opinion or fact that counters your narrow-mind is within proximity even when you ask for proof. People give you the proof, but you still reject it instantly. That’s not intelligent. That’s not even respectful, but then again, you don’t care about our “black racist POV”. And yet, you come here…like a crackhead.

    You must be a complete, pompous buffoon if you think you bring any fairness to this blog. And you must be high as hell if you think that you are fooling us into thinking that you bring in any honest commentary when you deny being a racist, but prefer to be called a race realist. We know that you are a Fox News watching, Reagan worshipping, Conservative thinking, right-wing flapping, delusional dreaming white racist clown with no real interest in this blog other than to amuse yourself and your bubblegum ego. We know that to be true. The only person to not see it is you, and maybe your girlfriend dick-structure.

    No one takes you seriously Bliff, and I think somewhere in your–what we laughingly call–your mind, you really don’t give a fuck. That is your problem. You don’t have what it takes to listen or feel because you put yourself first.

    Yes. I don’t know you and I don’t want to know you, but in turn, you don’t know me or black people. You only know them through race realist bullshit that gives your crazy ass a “logical” reason to hate the people who’ve been hating all your life because your life is screwed up to want to hate someone to keep you going.

    In other words you make us laugh, and the ultimate punchline is that we, the inferior species is laughing your stupidity–the stupidity from a man representing a “superior race.” That is rich.

    Like


  215. Whites, 71% of the population, comprise a group of about 216 million people. Blacks, with 13%, come in with 40 million. Looking at your statistics:

    – 2963 white-on-white murders
    – 2604 black-on-black murders
    – 454 black-on-white murders
    – 209 white-on-black murders

    We can add the murders together and get:

    – 3172 white murders
    – 3058 black murders

    How exactly, then, do you not notice that Blacks–13% of the population–manage to kill the same number of people as a population group over FIVE TIMES LARGER. This means that:

    1) Rounded down, individual Blacks are FIVE times more likely than individual Whites to murder someone. (71%13=5)

    2) Black males, who make up half the Black population and account for most of the crime, are accordingly over TEN times more likely than White males to murder someone.

    3) Young Black males, who make up the majority of the crime within the Black male category, ARE EVEN MORE LIKELY TO MURDER SOMEONE.

    Not treating obviously degenerate Blacks (gangbangers, hoods, etc.) with the sense of caution that they rightfully deserve is probably a good chunk of the reason Blacks murder Whites twice as often.

    Like


  216. @ 810, Randy

    Instead of saying where my post went wrong you just repeat the standard racist arguments.

    Like


  217. “How exactly, then, do you not notice that Blacks–13% of the population–manage to kill the same number of people as a population group over FIVE TIMES LARGER.

    2) Black males, who make up half the Black population and account for most of the crime, are accordingly over TEN times more likely than White males to murder someone.

    3) Young Black males, who make up the majority of the crime within the Black male category, ARE EVEN MORE LIKELY TO MURDER SOMEONE. ”

    ****************************

    810

    Yawn … are you another RR (Real Racist)?
    Yes?

    Don’t you guys (clones?) ever come up with anything new, or different???

    Sooo, why don’t you RR guys ever notice how old fascist white men are continually allowed to go to war, invade sovereign lands for OIL, gas, oil/gas pipelines, hegemony, etc, etc, always on false/phony pretenses/reasons, like Operation Iraqi Freedom, War On Terror, the CIA constructed boogeyman & 911 fall guy – Bin Laden, Weapons of Mass Destruction, Yellow Cake Uranium??

    Why are their (Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, just to name a few WHITE front guys) lying, thieving, torturing, maiming, murdering … in HUGE NUMBERS always overlooked, excused, forgotten and never counted as the hideous crimes against humanity they are???

    Why are crooked corporate CEOs/CFOs, chairmen, board members in bed with corrupt political system via so-called watchdog agencies FDA, EPA, FCC, ADA, AMA, The Bar Association, the chemical industry and big pharma, farming/agriculture consortiums, the banking industry, corporations/cartels, a corrupt and biased judicial system who serve the financial interests of the rich and powerful permitted to act against the best interest of Americans of all persuasions by polluting the water, air, land, seas/oceans, food AND even the genetic make-up of plants?

    Why??

    Because millions of idiots/trolls (no offense to legit idiots) like RR 810, Randy, Doug, Bliff .. are using their supposedly “superior intellect” to come against non-whites – blacks in particular for their so-called lazy, whiny, dim, “inferior genetics” while their white masters in broad daylight are taking all of you for a ride to the cleaners because clowns like you identify with your leaders’ white skin and are willingly acting against your own financial interests. They’ve been playing this game for hundreds of years, and for a larger piece of the pie, you idiots have laid down for the con.

    Why are you superior RR focusing your venom on non-white oppressed people, the folks you should be allied with, instead of bringing your misplaced wrath down upon the top 1-2% that’s picking your RR clowns pockets pitting you idiots against people whose side you should be on – that is if you had any sense, which the folks here know, sadly, you don’t.

    I guess being intellectually superior doesn’t count much for being smart or wise, or intelligent, after all is said and done.

    Like


  218. Guys, research gas shown that IF a native Dutch person and a person who is not a) looking Dutch and b) sounding Dutch are both found guilty of a similar crime, the non-native is 20 times more likely to get time in jail as part of the punishment, does sounding naturally white help in the USA too?

    Like


  219. Abagond said:

    Instead of saying where my post went wrong you just repeat the standard racist arguments.

    I tried to point that out here: https://abagond.wordpress.com/2012/04/05/whites-who-fear-blacks-are-racist/#comment-122665

    In summary, fear of murder may be indeed be an overreaction as it’s a rare event, but other forms of violent crime are not rare, and since the data suggest that black persons commit such crimes at a rate much greater than their share of the population, concern by white people does not seem to be inherently irrational.

    Like


  220. “dick structure” ha ha I really am cracking up at that. Great posts Brothawolf and Matari

    The murder rate and drug traficing are closely tied if you dont count in murders by aquaintances.This whole drug / crime statistics thing is wrapped in a way to bend it to make whites afraid and think black people are going berserk and will be at your door soon.

    The reality is not only does this corporate incarcination system penalise black people for dealing drugs, it rewards them so the cycle will keep on going. Anybody see that special about the tie in with crack dealing and the thug rap world? With Ice Tee narating ? I stll cant wrap my head totaly around that, but, society actaly pealises and rewards young black men to get into the dope dealing business.

    The truth is, in a poor black neighborhood, very young people start realising fast that they are marginalised in society. They are smart and intuitivly understand that there is discrimination. Of course, as in any society, people who are poor are going to have more individuals who are going to look for the sub economy to get by.

    This is where the horrible tentacles of slavery reach down from the past to create a situation that puts an extra burden and obsticles on the backs of black Americans.Any one who denies the studies where two people go out , one black one white , and the white gets favored, is seriously fooling themselves. With this kind of discrimination in society and faced with bone crunching poverty, is it any wonder that a high percentage of black males choose to go into a sub econoly to survive ? Most crimes in prison are drug related. Quite a high percentage of murders are competing drug traficers . If slaves were white, would couldnt notice that there is a higher percentage of descendants of slavery in prison. I suggest you can look at the high percentage of black men in prison and know that is a visual representation of the tenticles of slavery reaching down into our present day

    I always knew slavery had affects on today. But never more so than living in Brazil. The prisoners here, mostly black and brown, are crammed into situations worse than the middle passage , for years. Sao Paulo police kill more people than the whole police in the USA and they are mostly brown and black people. The drug trade is the absolute ticket out of abject poverty and the drama plays out here far more greater than the USA. And , the poverty and discrimination are painfully huge factors that blatently implicate the slave trade to Brazil and its affects on society into the present day. I learned so much about racism and slavery in the USA from seeing this in Brazil.There are absolutly no doubts in my mind about this

    Like


  221. I pray you all can decipher my thoughts from the mumbo jumbo misspellings that are too numerous to correct…its the thoughts that count…

    Like


  222. Oh yeah, that statement is being made for a comment in moderation so at least you all have been warned

    Like


  223. @ everyone

    The scary thing about Bliff, Douglas, Randy, etc is we probably know them, eat with them. sit next to them…
    The more I read this blog and other blogs, the more I understand the white American mindset, the more convinced I become that something terribly wrong has happened…

    Like


  224. @truthbetold

    The scary thing about Bliff, Douglas, Randy, etc is we probably know them, eat with them. sit next to them…

    Yes, truthbetold, if you sit next to me in the cafeteria, and you turn around, I’ve been known to steal black peoples’ Splenda.

    Like


  225. @ deedee7789

    Looks like John Derbyshire took a few notes out of Abagond’s “white racist guide to black crime”.

    I read what Derbyshire wrote and I don’t see the problem with it. If black parents can have a talk with their kids about the perceived problems with white people, why can’t white parents do the same with their kids about blacks? After all, he didn’t say stay away from black people completely, he said stay away from them in some potentially dangerous situations.

    What’s wrong with what Derbyshire wrote, Deedee?

    Like


  226. @ Bliff,

    Think for a second, Bliff. it’s not hard .

    The problem with Derbyshire is that, like a typical racist, he has it in his mind that black people do something so that he can have an excuse to do something even worse. Believe it or not, black people don’t all sit there and say, “Oh here’s a list of things about how horrible white people are”, just because Derbyshire, like a true racist, imagines it so. He just wanted an excuse to post his racist “views”.

    Also, his sneak in of the typical racist “intelligence” argument at the end cements his views as nothing but racist pandering, not any real attempt to takla bout black people (which he should not be doing in the first place, since it’s clear he’s made no real effort to understand them).

    Like


  227. @Ace
    Because anything that portrays black people in any positive light is “black racist POV”, right?

    No, wrong. You said that, I didn’t. The big problem with you, Ace, is that when you respond to me, you attribute a lot of statements to me that I never said. So, I have to spend much time sorting out the truth from your fiction. This is not Creative Writing, Ace. Stick to reality, which you have a hard time sticking to.

    No, I don not object to portraying blacks in a positive light. In fact, what I usually object to on this blog is unfair portraying of whites as racists; blacks not taking responsibility for their actions, but blaming whites instead; and, black whining about the past (which no one can change). Good news about blacks is good – we need more of it. I don’t object to it.

    The fact that you’ve gone to constantly assume that people who disagree with you are black (so that you can subsequently insult them) proves that fact.

    Sometimes I say blacks and their ultraliberal non-black minions, is that better? From now on, I am granting nonblacks who are ultraliberal, and essentially black in thinking, black status, so when I say “black” they can be feel “included” in this diversity.

    You’ve been so warped by your views that you think anything that doesn’t result in black people being insulted or “put in their place” is somehow racist against you.

    Wrong, I didn’t say that and I don’t think that, so don’t write that.

    You want to know why you get the response you do here, while Sam does not?
    Sam is a blooming ultraliberal, so he’s loved here. I never expected the same response as Sam gets. He claims gets battered here, too.

    Your viewpoint is slanted and biased.

    Then I should fit in perfectly on this blog. This blog is slanted and biased and Abagond has more or less admitted so.

    It’s nothing but anti-intellectual blathering….

    Not true, my views on blacks’ IQ, impulsiveness, and poor ability to plan are based on studies. Furthermore, they fit the empirical facts – blacks poor achievements in school and society reflect these findings. Not exactly blathering.

    ….. made to cater to your failing ego by claiming you deserve privilege you did nothing to earn.

    I have no “failing ego”. I do not claim I deserve privilege. You just completely made these up.

    …. as if white people had nothing to do with the problems that exist today.

    Since the 1960’s this country has done a lot to help blacks. If the blacks were as able in school, society, and family formation as they are in sports and entertainment, black would be now well on their way to overall success.

    That is why it is racist to fear black people

    Whites don’t go around fearing black people on any kind of continual basis. We avoid blacks in potentially dangerous situations. There are black residents in my neighborhood and I don’t fear them. However, if I was lost in a black area that looked poor, I would be cautious. A large part of that would be ‘fear of the unknown’ – I don’t know the area, so I would be more fearful than if I was familiar with the area.

    You stamp your feet and say horrible things, then recoil and cry like a petulant child when people don’t cater to your “point of view” above all others.

    I state my POV, I don’t expect anyone to cater to it. I don’t say anything more horrible than what’s already been said. I have taken my share of lumps on this blog, and that’s usually because my POV just differs from someone else’s POV, so what’s the difference between me and them?

    Like


  228. @ Ace

    Bliff refers to blacks as “the blacks”.
    That says it all.

    Like


  229. “No, wrong. You said that, I didn’t. The big problem with you, Ace, is that when you respond to me, you attribute a lot of statements to me that I never said. So, I have to spend much time sorting out the truth from your fiction. This is not Creative Writing, Ace. Stick to reality, which you have a hard time sticking to.”

    No the problem with YOU is that you have a habit of saying things and then refusing to take responsibility for them. You don’t recognize any reality that doesn’t cater to your racist views, so you are the last person to tell anyone else to do the same.

    “No, I don not object to portraying blacks in a positive light. In fact, what I usually object to on this blog is unfair portraying of whites as racists; blacks not taking responsibility for their actions, but blaming whites instead; and, black whining about the past (which no one can change). Good news about blacks is good – we need more of it. I don’t object to it.”

    Yes you do! You argue against anyone providing proof against any claim you make, just like you did with me up there. You object to it because it would go against what you think, and apparently you personally can’t handle that.

    “Sometimes I say blacks and their ultraliberal non-black minions, is that better? From now on, I am granting nonblacks who are ultraliberal, and essentially black in thinking, black status, so when I say “black” they can be feel “included” in this diversity.”

    Because your the one to grant “black” status? That just proves the sort of stupidity you spout. Also, I am not ultraliberal, I grew up centrist. But god forbid anyone not go out of their way to judge and insult blacks, right? You really are a piece of work, and very dishonest.

    “Wrong, I didn’t say that and I don’t think that, so don’t write that.”

    Yes you do, you always claim that people are “black racist” whenever they say anything defending black people. You can’t will your words out of existence because you can’t take responsibility for them.

    “Sam is a blooming ultraliberal, so he’s loved here. I never expected the same response as Sam gets. He claims gets battered here, too.”

    No his don’t, for a reason. Think about it some more and maybe you’ll figure it out.

    “Then I should fit in perfectly on this blog. This blog is slanted and biased and Abagond has more or less admitted so.”

    Way to not read what your talking about.

    “Not true, my views on blacks’ IQ, impulsiveness, and poor ability to plan are based on studies. Furthermore, they fit the empirical facts – blacks poor achievements in school and society reflect these findings. Not exactly blathering.”

    Yes. Blathering. Nothing but vomit cooked up by people who need excuses to attack someone. For everyone who’s told you otherwise, or shown proof, you’ve dismissed them.

    “I have no “failing ego”. I do not claim I deserve privilege. You just completely made these up.”

    You claim white people deserve the “privilege” they have right up there. Again, reality doesn’t shift to cover your butt, Bliff.

    “Since the 1960’s this country has done a lot to help blacks. If the blacks were as able in school, society, and family formation as they are in sports and entertainment, black would be now well on their way to overall success.”

    They are, just because they have people like you who won’t recognize that face (and yet claim that you think black success is a “good thing”) doesn’t mean they never do. The problem is that people like you can’t handle letting black people have too much of a good thing. Apparently black people were “able” in those areas until they wanted some equality.

    “Whites don’t go around fearing black people on any kind of continual basis. We avoid blacks in potentially dangerous situations. There are black residents in my neighborhood and I don’t fear them. However, if I was lost in a black area that looked poor, I would be cautious. A large part of that would be ‘fear of the unknown’ – I don’t know the area, so I would be more fearful than if I was familiar with the area.”

    Yet why not fear whites in dangerous situations? You might fear the blacks in the poor neighborhoods, but you seem to have no problem looking down on blacks in general, so I don’t see why your trying to use the “Oh I have blacks in my neighborhood!” argument.

    “I state my POV, I don’t expect anyone to cater to it. I don’t say anything more horrible than what’s already been said. I have taken my share of lumps on this blog, and that’s usually because my POV just differs from someone else’s POV, so what’s the difference between me and them?”

    Because you throw out racist arguments, insults, and make no attempt to have a reasonable discourse. You then say disrespectful things and totally ignore any arguments that don’t support your bias. You deserve the “lumps” you get. Take some real responsibility (like you seem to demand black people do) and you’ll understand why.

    Like


  230. @ Truthbetold,

    Ah yes…I’ve noticed. But don’t you tell him that, he’ll just claim you “made it up”.

    Like


  231. Blacks commit crimes at a higher percentage than whites, it is a fact. Lets do something about this instead of trying to argue. Lets give blacks free educations.

    Like


  232. @Bliff

    You said “I read what Derbyshire wrote and I don’t see the problem with it. If black parents can have a talk with their kids about the perceived problems with white people, why can’t white parents do the same with their kids about blacks? After all, he didn’t say stay away from black people completely, he said stay away from them in some potentially dangerous situations.

    What’s wrong with what Derbyshire wrote, Deedee?”

    I looked at each link that Derbyshire had about “the talk” by Black parents and each explained that the talk was about appropriate behavior to have so as not to appear suspicious to police officers. It was not white bashing.

    Examples from the links

    1)The talk about standing up straight, dressing the part, keeping your hands in sight at all times and never, ever letting your anger get the best of you.

    http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/having_the_talk_painful_rite_for_T89MVfwTd4BA8Nne3yNtrJ?utm_medium=rss&utm_content=National

    2)Fearful Jim Crow-era black parents knew that a wrong word, a glance held too long, could prove deadly. The Talk was a primer for kids in kowtowing, a survival guide for apartheid America.

    http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-23/news/os-darryl-owens-homepage-20120323_1_black-parents-survival-guide-wrong-word

    Then there is Derbyshire’s article. My biggest issue is not him teaching his children to avoid dangerous situations. My parents did that with me and those lessons have kept me safe. But my issue is zoning in on a specific group of Black people (whose actions have nothing to do with being Black). He avoids that dangerous situations can happen regardless of race but attributes the ones to avoid involving masses of a particular type of Black person. That is not safe or healthy for his children because it becomes prejudice rather than teaching them to remain safe from ALL harm rather than just potential harm from black foes. That is where I have issue with his article.

    Like


  233. I know Bliff is too scared to respond to my comments to him as he knows he can not measure up to my level, but anyway…

    I read what Derbyshire wrote and I don’t see the problem with it. If black parents can have a talk with their kids about the perceived problems with white people, why can’t white parents do the same with their kids about blacks? After all, he didn’t say stay away from black people completely, he said stay away from them in some potentially dangerous situations.

    Of course you don’t see a problem with it. To you that’s the gospel.

    Let me explain what’s wrong with your argumentative question about who teaching who. Black parents teaching their kids about whites are usually based on experiences and truth dealing with whites all their life. (Some) white parents who teach their kids about blacks are usually steeped in racist myths and beliefs that hold little or no truth or merit. However, not all of them would use Derbyshire’s article as a guide to black people as they see it as what it really is because they, unlike you, are capable of recognizing racism when they see it.

    Also, what exactly are potentially dangerous situations? Could it mean any place where a large number of black people congregate outside of church? Could he mean that a large number of blacks would incite violence automatically as if that could not possibly happen when whites gather. I guess the riots at Vancouver and Kentucky over sporting events were fictional articles written by the lefty media, huh?

    If you weren’t so pathetic in your reasoning Bliff, I would laugh at your ass.

    Like


  234. @ Hot guy

    “Blacks commit crimes at a higher percentage than whites, it is a fact. Lets do something about this instead of trying to argue. Lets give blacks free educations.”

    Whites commit crimes of a deviant, depraved, sick, twisted, cannibalistic, pederestic nature at a higher percentage than blacks, it’s a fact. Let’s do something about this instead of trying to argue.
    Let’s give lock up white males and throw away the key.

    Like


  235. @all bloggers
    I just don’t understand the White racism mind set or do I understand reversed racism.mindset either
    Racism has to go.

    Like


  236. @Adeen

    No problem, little Miss.
    BTW, if/when you receive stereotypical comments from your southern classmates (whether race-based, culture-based or otherwise), just reply with this, “How interesting! We should talk more about this at the beach.” If/When they reply or display visible confusion, tell them, “Well, all of the Americans who I see on TV know how to surf, so I assumed that you did too. I mean, you did just assume that I was into doing (insert “ghetto” or stereotypical activity here) because you saw it on TV, right? Well, all of the Americans on “Saved By The Bell” knew how to surf, so you must know how to surf, too. Is it a date?” Then smile and go about your business.

    And yes, I am just as snarky in real life, thank you.

    Back on topic: I find it interesting that the “race baiters/race realists” on this site are still clinging to the statistics argument, while steadily ignoring all of the commentary about differences in rates of suspicion/arrest/sentencing between the races. As a native New Yorker, I knew a *lot* of non-white kids who received juvie for committing crimes that were marginalised when committed by a white kid.
    Black graffiti artist get 1 year, white graffiti artist get probation.
    Black guy holding weed for friends get 2 years, white guy providing opiates to all of a school’s partiers gets… probation and rehab.
    2 Black kids get into a fight, suspension. 2 White kids fight, therapy and *counseling*.

    Hell, Mark Wahlberg blinded a senior citizen while he was high on *PCP*, yet he didn’t even spend a year in jail! Could anyone on this thread even *imagine* what a black assailant would receive as a punishment if he *got high on PCP*, then wandered the streets looking for and eventually finding someone to *beat into a coma*?

    Let’s keep it real: Rayon McIntosh received a decade for accidentally killing his friend (despite the fact that the friend in question affirmed the accidental nature of the incident, and that the prosecutor begged for leniency at the request of the victim.) Then, despite the fact that there was video evidence of him being battered and assaulted by *2* people simultaneously, he was risking over 25 years in jail for an act of self-defense.
    Marky Mark, OTOH, had literally been dragged to court on multiple occasions for the crime of abusing hallucinogenics and violently assaulting strangers, yet his longest sentence received was 2 years for *beating an old man so severely that one of his eyes popped out of his head*. And less than 6 months after blinding that sole breadwinner father (who was also an Asian immigrant, whose injury forced his children to drop out of higher education so that they could get jobs to be able to have money to *eat*), Marky Mark was giving America “Good Vibrations”.

    Like


  237. @ Adeen,

    Well, reverse racism doesn’t’ exist. To say “reverse” would imply that regular racism is the normal and correct way to be racist. There is no correct way to be racist, you know?

    But I can understand, it doesn’t make sense. I know I would have had a hard time understanding where it comes from if I didn’t say some of the same things as they did when I was growing up.

    @ MaMu1977,

    Nice, perfect example of how slanted this situation really is.

    Like


  238. @Ace
    But they are Blacks who don’t like Whites though.
    @MaMu1977
    Good example.

    Like


  239. @Adeen

    Adeen said ” @Ace But they are Blacks who don’t like Whites though.”

    What Ace was saying was along the lines of people can just be racist. Reverse racism is like saying only Whites are capable of being racist (reverse racism is literally the racist individual having racism tossed their way, weird right?). So in reality reverse racism doesn’t exist because racism is racism regardless of who is doing it.

    Like


  240. @ Adeen,

    Well yes, but they are prejudiced, maybe racist, however they aren’t “reverse racist” because there’s no “normal” way to be racist. To say “reverse” implies that it’s only weird to be racist against white people, but white racism is “normal” or “right”.

    @ DeeDee,

    Yep, exactly.

    Like


  241. @deedee7789

    He avoids that dangerous situations can happen regardless of race but attributes the ones to avoid involving masses of a particular type of Black person. That is not safe or healthy for his children because it becomes prejudice

    Deedee, apparently you haven’t been keeping up with the random attacks on whites by blacks that has been going on. At the Iowa State Fair and other places throughout the US, blacks have been playing the “knock out” game by going up to random whites and just decking them. Recently, in Baltimore a group of blacks attacked a white man and robbed and stripped him.

    So, yes, there IS a systemic random threat from blacks on whites, and this usually occurs in situations where a group of young blacks happened to outnumber the whites and will attack them.

    So Derbyshire does have some valid advice to give his children, especially since he made it context-sensitive – not to avoid all blacks always, but to watch out for certain situations. And NO it does not becomes predjudice if he is talking about a valid threat.

    By your logic, the talk that black parents give their children could be predjudice, because most white people do not harm black people. Most white police officiers do not harm blacks.

    Like


  242. “deedee7789
    Reverse racism is like saying only Whites are capable of being racist (reverse racism is literally the racist individual having racism tossed their way, weird right?).”

    No such thing as “reverse racism”, it’s called,” You reap what you sow” white American institution and society.

    White Americans before civil rights movement had priviledges that they did not give to non-white people…that sh’t was even in Writing and passed as laws.

    Now white Americans want to get mad because the changes to these shit’y laws have been made so that non-whites no longer can be shut out as participants in the game of “moving up the financial ladder”

    White Americans want to get mad…who Cares if they get mad.. for YEARS, they had the priviledge of walking into any place they wanted without being judged by their skin colour

    so sometimes the shoe is on the other foot and now they want to boo-hoo…oh please, cry me a river…

    generations of white Americans got by based on their skin colour…they might not have made the rules but they sure benefited from it.

    Like


  243. @ Bliff,

    You realize that there are more examples of gangs of whites chasing black people, running them over with trucks, chasing them into traffic, or beating groups of them to death?

    Did you see that Derbyshire also said not to help black people in apparent distress?

    By your own logic, wouldn’t black people have a valid reason to be scared of all white people? I mean, history and numbers clearly show that more black people have been victims of white hate crimes than white people have been victims of black hate crimes.

    Like


  244. @Ace

    You realize that there are more examples of gangs of whites chasing black people, running them over with trucks, chasing them into traffic, or beating groups of them to death?

    We’re talking about Derbyshire and his advice to his kids. If he and his kids are not the kind to do any of this, then your point is moot.

    And, are you talking recently, or historically? If you are going to say “there are more examples” then you better show some numbers.

    Did you see that Derbyshire also said not to help black people in apparent distress?

    Yes, he’s concerned it could be a setup.

    By your own logic, wouldn’t black people have a valid reason to be scared of all white people? I mean, history and numbers clearly show that more black people have been victims of white hate crimes

    Like


  245. @Ace

    You realize that there are more examples of gangs of whites chasing black people, running them over with trucks, chasing them into traffic, or beating groups of them to death?

    We’re talking about Derbyshire and his advice to his kids. If he and his kids are not the kind to do any of this, then your point is moot.

    And, are you talking recently, or historically? If you are going to say “there are more examples” then you better show some numbers.

    Did you see that Derbyshire also said not to help black people in apparent distress?

    Yes, he’s concerned it could be a setup.

    By your own logic, wouldn’t black people have a valid reason to be scared of all white people? I mean, history and numbers clearly show that more black people have been victims of white hate crimes

    This brings up the whole question of Black Time. For some strange reason, blacks and Abagonites (that’s you non-black Ace) think that all wrongdoings comitted against blacks over the last 400 yrs somehow happened to them. Dem people need to learn to live in the present, otherwise they will be condemned to live in the past, over and over again.

    No present day blacks have any claim on what happened to blacks in slavery days or before they were born.

    As far as “wouldn’t black people have a valid reason to be scared of all white people”, Ace, the Abagonites can be scared of whoever they want to be scared of, but that is not binding on anybody else, especially the objects of their fantasy, i.e., white people. Furthermore, to be
    scared of all white people”, is ludicrious.

    Like


  246. @Linda

    it’s called,” You reap what you sow” white American institution and society.

    Linda! You’re beginning to get it. Yes, here in America, those that use their brains and talents, thrive, like you in your real estate dealings. Those that don’t, like the blacks who don’t want to live in the present, but would rather dwell in the past, that neither they nor anyone else can change.

    Tell me, did you have the same opportunities in Jamaica?? If so, why did you leave. In fact, why did you leave Jamaica to come to Racist America. Was it because the opportunities were better, despite all the “racism”?

    Now white Americans want to get mad because the changes to these shit’y laws have been made so that non-whites no longer can be shut out as participants in the game of “moving up the financial ladder”

    Total BS. First of all, if blacks were capable of moving up the ladder in appreciable numbers, then they would pay more taxes and require less govt services, therefore, whites would applaud that. Whites don’t resent blacks for moving up; we resent you for whining about the past and screaming racism 100 times for every 1 incident of true racism.

    generations of white Americans got by based on their skin colour…they might not have made the rules but they sure benefited from it.

    Not since the 1960s. The rules changed. Blacks just don’t want to admit that. They would rather whine about what happened 150 yrs ago and then claim that’s why they can’t get ahead.

    Like


  247. @ Abagond

    Bliff stated: “Dem people need to learn to live in the present, otherwise they will be condemned to live in the past, over and over again.

    No present day blacks have any claim on what happened to blacks in slavery days or before they were born. ”

    1. What is dem? Black slang?
    2. According to Bliff’s argument, whites should have no claim in the White Inventor Argument, correct?

    Simply amazing. Rules can apply when and if the white race-realist chooses to apply them. Is that not the cornerstone of privilege, which he claims he doesn’t have?

    Like


  248. @truthbetold

    whites should have no claim in the White Inventor Argument, Truthbetold’s answer to my statement “No present day blacks have any claim on what happened to blacks in slavery days or before they were born.”

    It is true that whites enslaved blacks back in the day. Now slavery has been discontinued and is no longer practiced. Present day blacks have no claim on what happened to blacks back then because it didn’t happened to them.

    Present day whites didn’t invent what earlier whites did. They and I have no personal claim on those inventions.

    A white can say they’re proud of their inventive ancestors. That’s OK. A black can say they are upset because their ancestors were in slavery. That’s OK. But both of these are just emotions of present day people, they have no bearing on any blame or credit due.

    You can’t compare slavery and inventions because slavery was a condition and inventions demonstrate an ability. You are mixing apples and oranges in trying to compare the two.

    Another difference between slavery and inventions is that slavery is undesirable and is no longer practiced, while inventions are desirable and the practice of invention is still being done.

    Slavery was a condition that blacks were in. Conditions can change and they did in the case of slavery. Present day blacks are no longer in the same condition as their ancestors. White attitudes about blacks being slaves no longer exist; no living person has any personal memory of slavery. Blacks just keep their resentment of slavery alive purposefully in their own minds. They are responsible for what is in their minds; whites didn’t put it there.

    Even the conditions that created slavery are no longer around today. Blacks’ present day condition is due to the Differences between Blacks and Whites, not due to any lingering sense of slavery.

    Whites have the ability to invent, and that continues, and it is desirable that it continue. Inventiveness is primarily cultural, so once it caught on in Western Civilization, it continued as a successful cultural adaption. Whites higher IQ also contributes to their inventiveness, so being a part of our culture and our environment, it is reasonable that Whites are proud of their ancestors and their own inventiveness, which has helped them as well as the rest of mankind.

    American Blacks are also part of the Western culture and have opportunities to invent and build on the inventions of their culture. So far, they have been far less successful than whites.

    Like


  249. “Bliff,

    Whites have the ability to invent, and that continues, and it is desirable that it continue. Inventiveness is primarily cultural, so once it caught on in Western Civilization, it continued as a successful cultural adaption. Whites higher IQ also contributes to their inventiveness, so being a part of our
    culture and our environment, it is reasonable that Whites are proud of their ancestors and their own inventiveness, which has helped them as well as the rest of mankind.

    American Blacks are also part of the Western culture and have opportunities to invent and build on the inventions of their culture. So far, they have been far less successful than whites.”

    Linda says,

    Bliff, primary education is fundamental and so are your generalizations. Here are some websites so you can enhance your fundamental education.

    American blacks were inventing since they hit US shores and American whites have been inventing and STEALING (patents) since they’ve hit US shores.

    http://inventors.about.com/library/inventors/bljennings.htm

    “Thomas Jennings was the first African American to receive a patent, on March 3, 1821 (U.S. patent3306x). Thomas Jennings’ patent was for a dry-cleaning process called “dry scouring”. The first money Thomas Jennings earned from his patent was spent on the legal fees (my polite way of saying enough money to purchase) necessary to liberate his family out of slavery and support the abolitionist cause.

    Under the United States patent laws of 1793 (and later, as revised in 1836)
    a person must sign an oath or declaration stating that they were a citizen of the United States. While there were, apparently, provisions through which a slave could enjoy patent protection,

    the ability of a slave to seek out, receive and defend a patent was unlikely.

    However, in 1857, a slave-owner named Oscar Stuart patented a “double cotton scraper” that was invented by his slave. Historical records only show the real inventor’s name as being Ned. (so white man had to steal from the black man)

    Stuart’s reasoning for his actions was that, “the master is the owner of the fruits of the labor of the slave both manual and intellectual”.

    In 1858, the U.S. patent office changed the patent laws, in response to the Oscar Stuart vs Ned case, in favor of Oscar Stuart. Their reasoning was that slaves were not citizens, and could not be granted patents.”

    You can finish reading the rest yourself but your point is stupid as usual because black people have been inventing for centuries. White Americans from the past were quite adept at inventing and STEALING and patenting other peoples ideas (aspirin, chocolate, coca-cola, etc)

    Sorry, Bliff, but American white “culture” is not special, nor could it exist in America without your black cousins contributions…history is available to read with the click of your mouse..but here’s a link with a few names to get you started.

    http://inventors.about.com/od/blackinventors/a/Black_History.htm

    Like


  250. @Matari

    So you have a problem with group ownership or definition of a race as versus the individuals in this scenarios.

    As long as the individual feels they are something close to being white but if that individual identifies as say “Native American” instead of white, strangely enough that no longer matters, in your mind he is still white.

    All of a sudden the personal sense of identification doesn’t matter.

    He’s white not because of his genetics or what he identifies as but because you say he is white.

    Once it no longer supports your point of view it ceases to matter.

    Fact is; Zimmerman is mestizo.

    Mixed blood, mestizo, non pure heritage, now he can identify as “white” if he wants to but that doesn’t make him white anymore than that white guy who identifies as “black” isn’t african-american.

    Or that guy who thinks he’s Napolean……

    And honestly alot of how much society allows people to get away with claiming they are one race or another often comes down to looks, if they are 99% white and 1% black but have dark skin, curly hair and typically black features by some random chance, they are going to be black, no matter how they are raised or identify.

    Its like if an aborigine moved to the US, they may technically be asian but will be identified as black.

    Basically; no matter the percentage of race you have, if you have non-white features and skin color ala Zimmerman than your not white.

    Or as you seem to think Matari; if your skin isn’t black than your white.

    Like


  251. @Bliff

    You mention earlier that the reason more black people are in jail is because they commit more crimes.

    But statistically there are around 6x as many white dealing and doing drugs as black people, and yet close to 50% of people in jail on drug related charges are black instead of say close to 70% of them being white.

    Like


  252. @ linda

    Your silly little response only listed a few contested patents. I don’t even know what you said is true. Your response is puny and has no bearing on the larger questions I addressed.

    Sorry, Bliff, but American white “culture” is not special, nor could it exist in America without your black cousins contributions

    Sorry, Linda, American white culture is special. American white culture developed from European/Western Culture which featured novel ideas like democracy, concept of the individual, Science itself, and others.

    Black contributions have been modest and, yes, America could certainly exist without black contributions. We just wouldn’t have jazz, other black based music, and sport contributions.

    Like


  253. @ Linda

    Bliff’s ignorance is blinding. The effects of the past still dominate the present and possibly the future. Willful ignorance is a scary thing.
    Whites fear/loathe/envy blacks for obvious reasons. If not for people of colour, this nation would not be standing proud and defiant.

    Like


  254. @V-4

    My main point is that people who are in prison are there for a reason, they comitted a crime. Yes, there are people wrongly accused and framed, but this happens to all races. Again, back to the main point, blacks are in prison because they comitted a crime. There is no “New Jim Crow”, there is no conspiracy to put masses of black people in jail.

    There are more people of all races in jail because of the crackdown in crime over the past few decades. The result – decreasing new crimes, with the criminals who may committed more crime in jail.

    I would agree that the police are more aggressive in certain black areas because of the gang violence due to the drug trade there. The anti-drug effort there is also an anti-gang and anti-violence effort. Putting blacks in jail due to drug crimes, also reduces the gang murder rate.

    White drug use is not associated with as much violence. Hence, the police crackdown in white areas is less.

    Your 6x white over black drug possession/dealing probably seems suspiciously high.

    Like


  255. @ Bliff said:
    “Black contributions have been modest and, yes, America could certainly exist without black contributions. We just wouldn’t have jazz, other black based music, and sport contributions.”

    LOL!!!! Thanks, man for a great joke.
    I’m starting to understand why Herneith just responds to you to mock you. You’re such a disgrace.

    Like


  256. @Bliff

    I will have a response later because I noticed some inaccurate observations in your reply. I can’t be thorough on this cell phone. Plus I’m in class until 4:45pm. More details later.

    Like


  257. truthbetold, yes, Bliff is very ignorant…I’m not even American and know more about this country and it’s history than he does. The sad part is he doesn’t even understand how he is making himself look stupid.

    Like


  258. @truthbetold

    The effects of the past still dominate the present and possibly the future.

    Only if you let them, truthbetold. You have the CHOICE to live in the past or to move on. I am old enough to remember the 1960s. That was a time of blacks feeling that the future was opening up, at least up to about 1966. Then the black radicals took over the civil rights movement and the movement degenerated into waiting for the whites to become unracist, black demands, etc, everything but helping themselves.

    That, unfortunately, is where you are stuck in life.

    Like


  259. Bliff, the only “silly” response is yours because even though you try to make yourself look like you are a simpleton, I believe you have the ability to research using Google and if you did, you would find out where I got my source of information

    I could care less if you want to believe me or not, the information is not hidden, it’s for public consumption and with the speed and user-friendliness of the internet, you can find it yourself.

    Like


  260. @Lindaou

    Bliff is very ignorant…I’m not even American and know more about this country and it’s history than he does. The sad part is he doesn’t even understand how he is making himself look stupid.

    No, you don’t Linda, you don’t know more about America than I do, you just pick and choose whatever you want to fit your own boo-hoo black victimhood. Like most of the Abagonites here, you just insult people who have a different POV. And people here call me the Racist!!

    Like


  261. @ Bliff,

    Actually right after the Civil Rights movement their next action was to try to work for housing and economic equality for whites and blacks. They also did a lot of work for poverty, and included many whites. They were stopped by angry Northern whites who couldn’t get past their bigotry even if it could help them gain a better living situation. So you should actually check your facts before you try to use that era to prove some point about black people.

    Like


  262. I was in the 60’s and I see it different Bliff ( Abagonites, I like that, kind of like “Bliffisms”, this guy is a real comedian isnt he?)

    Black people were determined, you can see it in the look of those men above in that picture. They were determined to stand up to the ridiculas conditions of racism back then.If you remember it back then , you remember the Jim Crow laws, the riost that went down in white Chicago when Martin Luther King Jr was there. He said it was as ugly racism as he has seen anywhere.King was reaching his limits also. There was diolougue between him and Malcom X.

    So, black Ameicans were checking out all options and posibilities of how they could survive this past ridiculas racism that was really ugly. They still had baseball teams that didnt have black players. Inter racial dating was really scrutinised back then.

    And you know what,? Black Americans did wonderful. They overcame huge obsticles to arrive at 75 percent middle class against all odds. What ever happened in the stuggle, a lot of good things came out of it.

    Like


  263. “No, you don’t Linda, you don’t know more about America than I do, you just pick and choose whatever you want to fit your own boo-hoo black victimhood. Like most of the Abagonites here, you just insult people who have a different POV. And people here call me the Racist!!”

    No Bliff, try it again..your post come off as if you just “fell off the turnip truck”. If you wish to be taken seriously, then stop making yourself look like a bumpkin.

    I don’t insult anyone with a different POV, I just don’t like ignorance and people like you pushng their own warped Agenda as fact…everything that comes out of your mouth is generalized ignorance..

    I know about black American history because I took the time to learn about it–I’m a foreigner, so as an American, you’ve always had the opportunity to read about the history regarding YOUR FELLOW Americans who are black.

    But instead, you choose to insult YOUR FELLOW Americans.

    Do you know what you look like to me and other foreigners reading these posts…A traitor to your fellow countrymen.

    Like I told another poster, do you know the difference between you, white American, and a black American, when you’re both on foreign soil…

    Nothing…you both are equally loved or despised alike.

    Grow up, Bliff.

    Like


  264. Linda, you obviously know more about America than Bliff. That is a weak space people go to when they are out pointed

    Like


  265. @B.R., Linda

    America is not JUST about the white-black issues. You two seemed concerned only about these issues. I am more concerned with America overall.

    Like


  266. @Linda

    White Americans from the past were quite adept at inventing and STEALING and patenting other peoples ideas (aspirin, chocolate, coca-cola, etc)

    By the way, what is your beef with the invention of aspirin, chocolate, coca-cola, oh, great knower of American history? Are you deluded into thinking that whites stole the invention of these from blacks somehow??

    Like


  267. “@B.R., Linda

    America is not JUST about the white-black issues. You two seemed concerned only about these issues. I am more concerned with America overall.”

    Your posts don’t reflect that, Bliff.

    If you, as an American, are not concerned with black & white American issues, then why are you even here posting on Abagonds blog…as a black American, he is writing about subjects that he is interest in and you are responding to his posts.

    Like


  268. I just said that on another thread, Bliff, dont be a biter….Abagonites indeed

    Like


  269. “By the way, what is your beef with the invention of aspirin, chocolate, coca-cola, oh, great knower of American history? Are you deluded into thinking that whites stole the invention of these from blacks somehow??”

    Bliff, this is what I am talking about when I say ignorance. I don’t have the time to educate you, so go look these up yourself..it’s availabe if you research them.

    Like


  270. And Bliff, to clarify, I said

    “White Americans from the past were quite adept at inventing and STEALING and patenting other peoples ideas (aspirin, chocolate, coca-cola, etc)”

    the term “Other people” does not impy “black people” it means other people like non-Americans…so please, take the time to READ the posts before responding.

    Like


  271. @Linda

    I did check on the inventions/origins of aspirin, chocolate, coca-cola and I saw no controversy with their origins or patenting. So again, i ask, what is your beef?

    Like


  272. @Linda
    From reading your posts, you seem like an intelligent and smart woman. I like reading your opinions.
    @Bliff
    Are you defending the racist John Derbyshire? I wonder. I am NOT calling you a racist and I have not tried to insult you or anyone on here. I really don’t know if you are a racist because I haven’t sat down and spoken to you in person. But why do you come on this blog and comment when you don’t agree with what is written on the blog? I just don’t understand that at all.
    And another thing, please don’t make a rant saying that I am this and that because I am only 16 and I don’t really answer the mind set of racists and ”race realists” like you. And would you explain to me what is the difference between race realist and racist? Again NOT calling you a racist because I don’t fully understand racism and racists. I haven’t experienced much yet.

    Like


  273. Bliff
    @Linda

    I did check on the inventions/origins of aspirin, chocolate, coca-cola and I saw no controversy with their origins or patenting. So again, i ask, what is your beef?”

    What controversy are you talking about?

    You’re the one with the beef, Bliff.

    I just stated that white Americans of the past were adept at stealing and patenting things and ideas that were already being used in other peoples countries and cultures. Just because you can’t find the information in 15 minutes doesn’t mean the information is not out there.

    Maybe Bulanik can assist you…she’s very good at finding out information that some people might think is obscure because it’s not in their faces.

    Like


  274. @ Dave,

    What does that prove? You think that if you take a video of black people saying that violence is bad proves a point you made? And seriously, again with Trayvon? This is like a broken record with you. Seriously!

    Like


  275. @Bliff
    ”America is not JUST about the white-black issues. You two seemed concerned only about these issues. I am more concerned with America overall.”
    You do have a point that America is not about the White Black issues. It is not. The world is not Black and White. There is a lot of other ethnicities and races. In fact, Hispanics are the largest minority group in America. By 2050, Hispanics will outnumber Caucasians because they already outnumber Blacks.
    And about the next thing, ”more concerned about America overall”? I don’t know about that. I think everyone on here is just as concerned about America as you are. Personally everyone on here should be concerned the way America is going economically. I know race relations in America have come a long way since 1962, we still have a long way to go until we, as all Americans, White, Black, Hispanic, etc can get along and move pass racism. Racism is such a ugly disease!

    Like


  276. @ Ace….Oh I’m the broken record. No I’m sick of the one sided broken record not only on here but on the national news and I’m responding to the broken record. Look up the video they are talking about and don’t skip over it.

    Like


  277. Im with you, Linda, I just meant I had implied the first part of what he had said on another powt. And, I get what you mean about cacau, its been down here used by the Indians for a long time

    Like


  278. @ Adeen,

    Bliff is a racist. He has said all manner of terrible things about black people based on their race, not on any justification on his part. He’s just not frothing at the mouth. But trust me. As a warning, I wouldn’t try to think for a second that he isn’t a racist, I do believe you have been taught to only look for overt racism in crosses and slurs.

    Also, race realism is just racism without the burning crosses. They just use outdated “proof” to provide a reason for their racism, even if it’s been proven defunct a century ago. But they see black people as inferior and less capable and they see that as a “realistic” view on race. But as you can see, via Bliff here, they aren’t well informed or particularly educated on the subject they’re trying to act like an authority on.

    @ Linda,

    Cultural appropriation is such a common thing that white people do that there are actually conventions dedicated to preventing it. It’s the idea of taking ideas and aspects from cultures without showing any respect of deference to the culture they’re borrowing from. They see it as their own “worldliness” or “invention”.

    Like


  279. @Ace
    I don’t know what Dave is trying to prove. Maybe he is trying to prove that everyone is human and that everyone has their biases. I am really young and I have looked up and known about both White on Black crime and Black on White crime. And also White on White crime and Black on Black crime. If not, I don’t know what was on Dave’s mind when he posted that video.

    Like


  280. Good points, Ace

    Adeen, the thing about Dave I dont understand is (I havent seen the video yet), he cant just stop for a minute and look at things like a white guy shooting a black guy because he thinks this black guy is a criminal or carrying a gun…He has to bring in lots of examples of black crime etc, but he doesnt want to look at these crimes that beg for scrutiny on their own terms. Dave sais he lives in an integrated neighborhood and worries if his kids get harrassed by black kids. I told him he needs to tell his kids that if people are picking on him, they are just bullies period…who happen to be black, if he concentrates too much on the bullies who happen to be black, he will miss the bullies who happen to be white

    Like


  281. This is an awesome post! I’ve seen these kinds of things happen from the white kids at my school pretty often.

    My school does a sort of community service program where we go out into the inner city or “ghetto” as they would put it to help out. I really like doing it, but sometimes the remarks these kids say are just so ignorant and annoying I kind of dread going.

    If, for example, we’re walking on the sidewalk to our site and a black guy is heading in the opposite direction (towards us), a girl will start acting afraid for her dear life. -___- Like, seriously?

    Just because the crime rate for black people is unfortunately high, does not mean that that crime is going to be directed at your privileged white butt (I go to a private school which is predominantly white, so imagine the unlimited amount of ignorance being said on a daily basis… yeah) or that any crime is going to take place at all.

    I always feel embarrassed when this happens and offer my best apologetic smile to the person because it is just plain rude to automatically assume some black guy minding his own business and walking down the street is going to hurt you and it is even worse when they visibly/physically react by stepping to the side or jumping and squealing a little (yep, its happened before…)

    It just bugs me, but oh, if I complain.. I’m overreacting. ugh.

    Haha, sorry for this long post, just felt like sharing my own experiences.

    Like


  282. @ dave

    Thank you again for the video.
    Very telling of your psyche.

    Like


  283. Dave: I didn’t really read all of the comments before my own, just skimmed it, but what was the point of posting one video about black-on-white violence?

    Like


  284. It’s amazing if not insane.

    Why would anyone be proud of saying the dumbest, most offensive shit ever heard and not expect a backlash? That is how Bliff thinks. It makes no sense that he is proud to bash black people at almost every chance possible and still live with content.

    Dave fears black people almost to death. This could be a reason why he continues to post these black-on-white and black crime videos.

    The only thing Dave is trying to prove is that black people are more violent against whites than the other way around, and it is logical to fear blacks, any of them. In his mind the minority that really is out there committing crimes represents the criminal nature found in all black people. After all, black people commit the most crimes in America, or so he thinks.

    At the same time he sees no reason why any of us should be pissed off at his ass. I should know. I did a post about Derailing Dave some months back and he was mad as hell.

    Dave, give it up. Your racism is apparent. You hate and/or fear blacks. Come right out and say it instead of letting these Youtube videos do the talking. That’s the funny thing about you and Bliff. You are never direct in how you truly think and yet, you want to be taken more seriously than you taking us, including Abagond, seriously.

    I would refer to you two as Laurel and Hardy, but that would be insulting to the real deceased duo. Dave and Bliff are typical racist white men. End of story.

    Like


  285. I just have to ask. Dave, what the hell is your problem?

    Like


  286. @ Anastasia,

    I know what your saying. I’ve seen a lot of the same thing. Even white people who have nothing feel that they are somehow able to look down on black people who have everything based on these sorts of stereotypes.

    @ Dave,

    Seriously? Your not proving anything but your own lack of reading comprehension. Are you truly trying to justify centuries of anti-black racism and modern anti-black stereotyping (that has led to many deaths) with a video that (at best) shows that white American racism has created an environment of animosity and frustration, where even white people are feeling the detriments? I’ll one up you:

    If you want I”ll put up videos, links, and stories of lynchings, town razings, fire bombings, modern anti-black hate crimes, and other things. I bet my “justification” is bigger.

    @ Adeen,

    No, he’s not making some “friendly” point on how we’re all human and have biases. At best that would be ignorant. He’s trying to prove some racist viewpoint that black people deserve to be feared and hated for some reason. He does this whenever anyone tries to argue that antii-black racism or hatred is unfounded., And yeah, it’s in really bad taste. Also, this guy seems to think that young black people your age deserve to be shot and any justice is unfair to their killer, he’s said this many times. He’s currently obsessed with proving that “fact” It’s gross.

    @ Brothawolf,

    He’s a racist with a chip on his shoulder.

    Like


  287. “Ace
    @ Linda,

    Cultural appropriation is such a common thing that white people do that there are actually conventions dedicated to preventing it. It’s the idea of taking ideas and aspects from cultures without showing any respect of deference to the culture they’re borrowing from. They see it as their own “worldliness” or “invention”.

    Linda says,

    You know, Ace, I am really not trying to put anyone down or take away achievements made by white American scientists of past, but it needs to be acknowledged that we, as people on planet Earth, do not live in a vacuum.

    Ideas travel and many times, the person who patented it, did not originally create it—the concept was “borrowed” from another culture or country.

    “John Pemberton, who created “Coca Cola “ in 1886, was a businessman from Georgia who imitated a French patented ‘coca wine’ formula originally cooked up by a European chemist named Angelo Mariani in 1863. Mariani came from Corsica but he lived in Paris, and he had experimented with different coca leaves, which he imported from South America, to make his tonic “Vin Coca Mariani.”

    Coca leaves were used medicinally and as an aphrodisiac by the Incas (native Indians) and

    the Kola nuts were used medicinally and as an aphrodisiac by the Africans brought to the Caribbean and South America.

    Pemberton copied the formula of “Vin Mariani” to create his version “Coca Cola”

    Vin Mariani contained pure Kola nut caffeine, which enhanced the effects of the cocaine (coca leaves) used in the formula. Mariani had gotten his ideas about Coca leaves from an Italien scientist who studied in Peru and introduced coca leaves to Europe in 1859.

    heres a link to a quick background on the Kola Nut

    http://www.herbco.com/c-324-kola-nut.aspx

    Like


  288. @ Linda,

    Wow. Thanks for posting all of that! That was informative, I honestly did not know that much about that situation, except for the fact that I was utterly convinced that that Coca-cola did not just randomly pop up in some guys head, research and all. It had to come from somewhere. A perfect example of the racist tendency to take other culture’s things and twist it around so that they don’t have to recognize that they took it at all.

    Like


  289. Your welcome, Ace. It helps that I am very familiar with the history of my own country and region.

    Kola Champagne is a popular drink in the Caribbean and we drink Bissy Kola as a tea.

    Like


  290. I don’t a lot of people here with respect because their Black Racist POV does not deserve any respect.

    It’s ‘respek’, according to Jay from Philly Cheese steak.

    this is a black blog

    I knew some whites were smart but you just confirmed it by stating the obvious!

    1) Rounded down, individual Blacks are FIVE times more likely than individual Whites to murder someone. (71%13=5)

    How did all these black killers miss you then?

    Not true, my views on blacks’ IQ, impulsiveness, and poor ability to plan are based on studies.

    What’s the excuse for those meth smoking hillbillies or those poor whites who love consuming large amounts of dindongs and diet coke? Where is their impulse control? There are millions of studies out there attesting to this!

    We avoid blacks in potentially dangerous situations.

    I hear you. I stopped going to BINGO because of all those baffed out white broads. I was constantly being robbed of my winnings also.

    I have taken my share of lumps on this blog, and that’s usually because my POV just differs from someone else’s POV, so what’s the difference between me and them?

    Put it to music and compose yourself a concerto! Otherwise, we think you are wonderful!

    Whites commit crimes of a deviant, depraved, sick, twisted, cannibalistic, pederestic nature at a higher percentage than blacks, it’s a fact.

    And that’s on a slow day!

    the Iowa State Fair and other places throughout the US, blacks have been playing the “knock out” game by going up to random whites and just decking them. Recently, in Baltimore a group of blacks attacked a white man and robbed and stripped him.

    Since you love black athletes you should have placed a bets! Maybe the white man had a penchant for such pecadillos and paid these fellows handsomely to do this.

    Bliff’s theme song:

    Like


  291. @ Linda,

    Your from the Caribbean? I’ve been there often, and I have family from there. I’ve noticed that a lot of the statistics people use to have an excuse to hate of fear African Americans has often been used to justify subpar treatment for non-white Caribbeans. I also noticed that some parts of the Caribbean internalized this and directed it towards African Americans.

    @ Hernieth,

    Oh wow. That just…made my day. Now I’m going to seriously play this again.

    Like


  292. @Bliff

    I would like to address a few observations that I feel were not true that you have made.

    By your logic, the talk that black parents give their children could be predjudice,
    because most white people do not harm black people. Most white police officiers do not harm blacks.

    While this statement is true about Black parents teaching prejudice if they teach there children
    to fear white officers as a potential threat, the issue is that the none of the articles mentioned
    ever state race. Examples from the articles about “The Talk:Black version”

    1)“Don’t put your hands in your pocket a lot. People will think you have a gun,”

    2)Brown said that at 14, his son is at that critical age when he’s always worried about his safety because of profiling.

    3)a pride-swallowing set of instructions with one purpose in mind — stay alive

    4)The talk about standing up straight, dressing the part, keeping your hands in sight at all times and never, ever letting your anger get the best of you

    5)rules that we’ve learned for surviving driving while black. Show your hands and don’t raise your voice. Avoid provocation. Better to swallow your pride than your teeth in a face-down takedown.

    Either the term people or police officer is used. White is never directly used to identitfy the people who become
    suspicious of a young black male. And of course I know that people/police officers can be generalized to white
    but if that was the case then there would no reason not to directly state White people or White police officer.
    Since police officer does not default to white and neither does people then the children are not taught to
    “fear” whites but rather to behave in a manner that is not hostile or suspicious and to to respect authority.
    You assume that only white people find young black males to look suspicious and that is not the case. People
    can be anyone, even other Black people (classism can paly a role).

    So Derbyshire does have some valid advice to give his children, especially since he made it
    context-sensitive – not to avoid all blacks always, but to watch out for certain situations.
    And NO it does not becomes predjudice if he is talking about a valid threat.

    I’m surprised you would make this argument considering you stated that most white people do not harm black people and yet
    you can’t make the same conclusion for Black people even though the premise is the same. For the same reason that IF the The Talk Black
    version was about teaching black children to fear whites being prejudice is the exact reason why Derbyshire’s article is prejudice.
    Most Black people don’t harm whites and yet he is teaching his children to avoid someone based on race. Examples below.

    (8) These differences are magnified by the hostility many blacks feel toward whites.

    “(9) A small cohort of blacks—in my experience, around five percent—is ferociously hostile to whites and will go to great lengths
    to inconvenience or harm us. A much larger cohort of blacks—around half—will go along passively if the five percent take leadership
    in some event. They will do this out of racial solidarity, the natural willingness of most human beings to be led, and a vague feeling
    that whites have it coming.”

    And although he does mention that not all blacks are to be feared, through the above statements he makes it clear that the majority
    should be avoided since the small hostile group would allegedly not be stopped by the non hostile groups who are near in proximity.
    He teached his children to not avoid dangerous neighboorhoods but mostly black ones. That is prejudice and foolish. He mentions even
    being more watchful of black politicans not based on their views on different policies but just based on their race…that is prejudice.
    Criminals should be feared not just someone who happens to be black because black does not equal criminal. But from Derbyshire’s
    article it seems that race plays a bigger factor than actual risk of crime. Derbyshire reads more like a paranoid individual then a
    concerned father who should teach his children to avoid any potential threat against their safety instead of just the potential not guaranteed
    black threat.

    I didn’t see the purpose of the beginning of your reply. I have never assumed that hate crimes of black on whites weren’t an issue. I find issue in ALL
    hate crimes and I don’t care about individual numbers because it should be zero for everyone regardless of the race of the offender.
    The average person is no threat to me because the average person isn’t a hostile criminal. What needs to happen is that society looks at the racial disparities
    of crime, figure out the why, and fix it without causing more racial tensions by avoiding the problem and assuming it’s inherent. Not trying to change your mind
    but trying to show you why I have issue with that article.

    Like


  293. @ Deedee,

    You ever notice how Derbyshire’s claims about how the majority of blacks would go along passively with a few violent blacks who apparently wanted to do all they could to hurt white people sound exactly like what white people actually did in terms of how they hurt black people? Again, it seems like Derbyshire, like many racists, are projecting the things white racists have done to blacks over the years onto blacks.

    Like


  294. “Ace
    @ Linda,

    Your from the Caribbean? I’ve been there often, and I have family from there. I’ve noticed that a lot of the statistics people use to have an excuse to hate of fear African Americans has often been used to justify subpar treatment for non-white Caribbeans.”

    Not sure what you mean about “subpar” treatment. In my experiences in US, i’ve encountered prejudices based on my skin colour. Once the white person realizes I “speak” strangely, I have to deal with their fakeness: “oh, where are you from?” and “I’ve taken a cruise to the Bahamas” (I’m Jamaican but hey, one island is as good as the other)

    then I have to field typical dumb questions about being from the islands: “Do you have electricity?”, “how did you get here?”..I answer, “A plane” and then I get “Oh, wow, how could you afford that?”

    I deal with stereotypes associated with being an immigrant alot, I get this from both black and white Americans. I once had a manager who made it a rule that “English” was the only language allowed to be spoken near or by our front desk at the office…he clearly stated: no patois, no kreyol, and no spanish.

    “I also noticed that some parts of the Caribbean internalized this and directed it towards African Americans. ”

    Well, keep in mind the only African Americans that people in the Caribbean get to meet are the ones they watch on the American TV shows. This is where they get their ideas about America from or if they work at the resorts, then they can interact with the tourists…but to me, this interaction paints a false image of America.

    Like


  295. @Ace

    If you want I”ll put up videos, links, and stories of lynchings, town razings, fire bombings, modern anti-black hate crimes, and other things. I bet my “justification” is bigger.

    Please do so.

    Like


  296. I remember seeing a documentary where they stopped Chinese people (in China) what they thought of blacks. All of them said blacks were scary. When they asked them if any of them had met a or known a black person in real life, the answer was “no!”

    Like


  297. @ Linda,

    Sorry for not clarifying, I meant “subpar” as in unequal treatment. Any treatment that disenfranchises them. I know I’ve seen people use the “speech patterns” as a way to categorize Caribbean people, which gets even more ridiculous when people remember that the Bahamas is not the only part of the Caribbean.

    Yes, then I can definitely see how perceptions of the Caribbean (mainly based on assumptions about blacks and immigrants) would cause ridiculous questions like that to be asked. Because no one in the Caribbean would have electricity or know how to afford a plane ticket, right?

    The immigrant angle is interesting, what if the people you’re speaking to use those languages?

    “Well, keep in mind the only African Americans that people in the Caribbean get to meet are the ones they watch on the American TV shows. This is where they get their ideas about America from or if they work at the resorts, then they can interact with the tourists…but to me, this interaction paints a false image of America.”

    Yes, I understand that fact which I find very interesting, because in America it’s often the same in reverse.. On the tourist angle, I’ve been to that kind of resort, and often the people who work there (that I see) are patronized by Americans who are putting on that mask of prosperity that people do when they go to those places as guests. I remember St.Thomas…and wow, I’ve never seen so many people get offended over Caribbean people who do not fit their stereotype of sing-song accents, dreads and a laid back attitude.

    Like


  298. Also Ace,

    Dave is a racist that is so miserable he wants to take it out on blacks. He knows it, and we know it, but he wants to deny it and throw it back as if black people are the biggest racists.

    Dave, let me tell you the inconvenient truth, you want to excuse the genocides and rapes that your ancestors have done in the past by putting up these videos of black-on-white crime. Frankly, I’m sick of this whining that you constantly do when you could do something that would free you from shame and guilt like stop fighting and start listening. None of us have time to be your psychiatrist when you love to be the patient.

    Yes, black people are aware of the crime of the community and are doing something about it with what we got, and they, as a whole, are doing a hell of a lot better than you, personally, have done. So, you have no right to continue posting these videos about black criminality especially when the white community have crime problems of their own by other whites. That is a fact. Learn it and deal with it.

    *rubs temples*

    Like


  299. @Ace: Yeah, wonderful world we live in, huh?:/

    Isn’t it funny (in the most sarcastic way) that a lot of white people feel the need to preach about how dangerous black people are, how afraid they are of black people and how black people are this and that and yet most have barely had 5 minutes of actual interaction with a black person and don’t actually face any kind of eminent danger from an actual black person. So stupid -__-

    Like


  300. “Ace,
    Sorry for not clarifying, I meant “subpar” as in unequal treatment. Any treatment that disenfranchises them. I know I’ve seen people use the “speech patterns” as a way to categorize Caribbean people, which gets even more ridiculous when people remember that the Bahamas is not the only part of the Caribbean.’

    I’ve never felt disenfranchised. I can’t speak for everyone from the islands but I believe most of us go through similar journeys. When my family got here (US), my parents had friends already here. Through this already established Jamaican network, my parents got jobs (yes, they had “tree” jobs–3 jobs), then established themselves in medical field. I did 2 years American high school, then left for Europe. I did not want to lose my visa, so I would return off and on to the States.

    One of my first jobs here, I was actually told by my white American boss that I was hired over a black American because he felt more “comfortable” with me because “you’re not really black”…honest, his words…

    I find that many white Americans attempt to make a distiction between black foreigners and black Americans and they try to play up the angle that black foreigners are “better”…I don’t buy this BS but unfortunately, too many Caribbean people do….I think a city like New York is a great place for a reality check.

    Like


  301. @Bliff

    About the 6x bit; admitably its been awhile since I’ve seen the study but just factor in population size and the respective involvement of the various races with the drug trade.

    More or less; there are so many more white drug users/dealers than black users/dealers because there are quite a few more white people than black people in the US.

    Basically by population size alone white people should be using notable more drugs so unless Anglo-Americans do drugs at an intensely lower scale than African-Americans, which at least my perspective from living in the south and seeing how many people do crystal meth alone down here, that seems unlikely.

    Of course maybe your right, maybe it has to do with the black drug users/dealers having more connections with gangs and white people being hill billies smoking pot down on the farm or college students experimenting with LSD.

    Don’t know but the sheer population size of white people vs black people makes 50% of all drug related prisoners as something that really needs a good look at.

    Like


  302. I’m already drained by the recent Dave video posts.

    Dave’s posts of videos illustrating black-on-white crime get to me, and I think that’s his hidden purpose. To him it’s not just the fact that a white man was attacked by a group of black men, it’s that he wants all people who see this to be held accountable.

    This may come as a surprise to Dave, but black folks don’t condone this kind of behavior no matter who the victim is. We do not support our criminals and thugs, not do we “worship” them. Dave clearly has had very little contact with black people, and even less time actually talking to them instead of at them. Yet, only the black community is the scourge of society, and his videos “prove” that.

    If whites are given the benefit of individuality for their criminal activity, why can’t blacks? (I already know the answer) The entire black community should not be held accountable for the acts of a few black criminals. Dave posting these videos is his way or trafficking collective guilt on all of us.

    Like


  303. @ Brothawolf,

    Exactly. I think that the persecution complex makes it easier to justify racist attitudes. They can make up white victimization (or dig deep for examples of white victims of violence) and then can claim they themselves are somehow victimized by any talks about racism.

    @ Anastasia,

    Great point there! Either it’s the people who’ve never met a black person for more than five minutes (besides the occasional classmate or Starbucks counter girl) or the people who think spending a few hours with one makes them an expert. Either way, it’s so obnoxious, am I right? Many of their points could be proven wrong if they just spent time getting to know the people they’re talking about.

    @ Linda,

    I apologize if it seemed like I was generalizing you. I had heard stories of disenfranchisement by people (plus my own grandfather’s experience), so I hope I didn’t impose it on you. Also, that’s great to hear that your family did so well. In fact, a lot of it sounds like the situation my family was in. We didn’t have a “network” in that regards (and many of us were indigenous, not from the islands completely), but they worked many jobs through college, and my father went military when I was born. Before I was born, my father just lived on the scholarships he’d earned through contests and essays to support him and my mother, while working internships in Washington and a job as a security guard. However, my grandparents sound a lot like that.

    That’s unfortunate that someone would use that logic that your somehow more “comfortable” to be around in their racist mindset. If they said something racist, did they expect you to be any more appreciative of it than a black American would be? They only seem to notice distinction between black American, and foreign black people when it’s time to justify pitting one group against another. Other than that? They’re “all the same” according to statistics (as we’ve seen with Bliff and others here).

    I am curious though, have you seen people try to use crime rates in the Caribbean (even if they don’t bother using the right island) to justify how Caribbean people are seen, or how they’re compared to American blacks?

    Like


  304. Ace, no apology needed, I took no offense…My grandfather had come to Florida in 1935 to work sugar cane fields for 2 years. He had told me stories about his time, the good, bad, and ugly (that’s why he chose to go to England)…so I can understand your grandfather feeling the effects of an openly racist society.

    I think the fact that we speak with an “accent” marks us as different in most peoples eyes.

    My parents and their friends had problems because people would try to treat them like they were stupid because when my parents spoke, it was hard for most Americans to understand them, so people treated them like they couldn’t speak English and were very rude to them.

    “Ace @ I am curious though, have you seen people try to use crime rates in the Caribbean (even if they don’t bother using the right island) to justify how Caribbean people are seen, or how they’re compared to American blacks?”

    No, I’ve never seen crime rates used (not to say this hasn’t happened) I don’t think most people know (or care) enough about the Caribbean to make comparisons beside don’t all black people look alike:-)

    Americans hear “Jamaica” and think of Bob Marley and Ganja.

    I know that in South Florida back in the 80’s, the Jamaican posse made a name for themselves with law enforcement (because they were ruthless-Escobar style) and the police would profile black people driving BMW’s (Jamaicans love their Bimmers) looking for members of the Jamaican posse.

    Like


  305. Blacks are seven times more likely than people of other races to commit murder, and eight times more likely to commit robbery. When blacks commit crimes of violence, they are nearly three times more likely than non-blacks to use a gun, and more than twice as likely to use a knife.

    Of the nearly 770,000 violent interracial crimes committed every year involving blacks and whites, blacks commit 85 percent and whites commit 15 percent

    Blacks commit more violent crime against whites than against blacks. Forty-five percent of their victims are white, 43 percent are black, and 10 percent are Hispanic. When whites commit violent crime, only three percent of their victims are black.

    Blacks are an estimated 39 times more likely to commit a violent crime against a white than vice versa, and 136 times more likely to commit robbery.

    The single best indicator of violent crime levels in an area is the percentage of the population that is black and Hispanic.Blacks are seven times more likely to be in prison than whites.

    So if the public perception of your race bothers you, it is your fellow blacks you should be angry with.

    Like


  306. Want an even more telling statistic? Look up white on black rape as compared to black on white rape. If blacks are criminal because they are poor, what is the monetary gain from rape again?

    Like


  307. @ Anastasia

    “Isn’t it funny (in the most sarcastic way) that a lot of white people feel the need to preach about how dangerous black people are, how afraid they are of black people and how black people are this and that and yet most have barely had 5 minutes of actual interaction with a black person and don’t actually face any kind of eminent danger from an actual black person. So stupid -__-“

    Thank you. That is pretty much my post in a nutshell.

    Like


  308. To Abagond:

    I tested this. Downtown Harlem and Chinatown at the time had about the same crime rate. I walked down 125th Street in Harlem: 5% white. I walked down Canal Street in Chinatown: 40% white.

    Whites were not afraid of crime: they were afraid of black people!

    And how does that follow..? Just because there were more White people in Chinatown at the time you were there..? Gee could it have been that the White people who visiting Chinatown found it more interesting to them than Harlem…?

    There used to be few non-Hispanics Whites visiting parts of the heavily Latino Mission district of San Francisco in the early 90s, then a number of rather popular (to non-Hispanic Whites) bars and restaurants opened up and one saw a lot more White folks running around. Did they all of sudden lose a general anti-Latino attitude or did they find the area more interesting to them..? I am concluding the latter.

    Like


  309. This time I must agree. The situation does not prove or demonstrate causation. Just because you find more white people in a place, it doesn’t mean because they are more afraid of black people. You could also explain it equally as rationally by saying black people are more afraid of Asians than white people are, so avoid Chinatown more than Harlem.

    Another explanation: many of the people might live in areas walking distance away.

    All are all rational explanations, but could be no more right than the other.

    Like


  310. @Anastasia

    Isn’t it funny (in the most sarcastic way) that a lot of white people feel the need to preach about how dangerous black people are, how afraid they are of black people and how black people are this and that and yet most have barely had 5 minutes of actual interaction with a black person and don’t actually face any kind of eminent danger from an actual black person. So stupid -__-

    I could switch the white and black references in your statement and it would be equally valid. ( It’s imminent, not eminent.) For example, look at the Treyvon Martin case. One case of a Hispanic on black possible crime and the black community wailing was at high pitch, when the truth is there is little white on black crime.

    Like


  311. Dear Spliff,

    There was and is white on black crime.
    It lasted for 450 years and continues today in the form of psychological violence.

    Sincerely,
    Your worst Nightmare A.K.A. An educated coloured person

    Like


  312. @Linda

    I was actually told by my white American boss that I was hired over a black American because he felt more “comfortable” with me because “you’re not really black”…

    You know, Linda, I’ve heard this so many times from so many sources…gee, do you think MAYBE it’s true! Do ya? Maybe? Perhaps black Americans ARE like this!!! Strange, you hear this SO many times, but blacks insist it can’t be true…oh, wait, whites NEVER know anything about blacks. If we ever notice any difference between blacks and whites, we’re NEVER allowed to say anthing….because every black knows WHITES are always racists!!

    Like


  313. @truthbetold

    The only “psychological violence” you have ever faced is located solely between your two ears.

    Like


  314. @deedee7789

    Thanks for your honest and detailed response, which was much better than the usual “Bliff, you’re just a racist” response” which is the normal response I get, and the normal message from blacks to whites in this society.

    from Derbyshire’s
    article it seems that race plays a bigger factor than actual risk of crime.

    Unfortunately, if you look at the high crime areas, the black and Latino areas are the high crime area, so there is a correlation between risk of crime and areas by race.

    Your quote indicates that one should avoid crime, not race. However, there is no practical way to know who’s a criminal. They do not wear badges saying “I’m a criminal, watch out”. So you have to go by some other criteria. Avoiding groups of blacks (young blacks, not a group of 70 yr olds) in certain situations (unfamiliar area, you’re alone or outnumbered) is prudent.

    And whites DO, today in 2012, I don’t care about 1865, face risks from large groups of blacks; a risk that blacks do not face from large groups of whites. I mentioned the “knock out” mobs and other black mob attacks. These are very real risks that whites face from blacks, so Derbyshire was wise to counsel his children against these types of threats.

    Like


  315. Bliff:

    Trayvon*

    Your example didn’t really make sense in context, clarify?But, I’ll still use it. Zimmerman called dispatchers/police because he saw a black kid walking somewhere in his neighborhood. On the calls, he said a slur and he had a history of targeting black youth and calling the police numerous times. Is that not racist or? On second thought, don’t answer that question because I already know what you’ll most likely say.

    BTW, you obviously don’t understand the actual reason for the ‘wailing’.

    Like


  316. @linda

    Pemberton copied the formula of “Vin Mariani” to create his version “Coca Cola”

    From Wiki “French Wine Coca”

    French Wine Coca was essentially an imitation of Angelo Mariani’s blend of Bordeaux wine and coca, called Vin Mariani. Mariani’s beverage achieved extraordinary success in the 1880s, inspiring a host of knock-offs, of which Pemberton’s was merely one of the more successful. However, Vin Mariani lacked both damiana, a reputed cure for impotence, as well as kola nut, a source of caffeine – both of which were later included in Coca-Cola.

    So there were many versions of Mariani’s beverage. Do you call all those stolen? I don’t believe anyone has ever said that Coke was the only product ever from kola nuts, yet you smear white Americans at every chance.

    I think you have an anti-American and anti-white bias, which causes you to cast white American issues in a decidingly bad light.

    Besides the Coke formula, Coke is one of the most successful commercial products of all time. The Coca Cola Company is an historical and international success, while the other cola products from the time have been left behind, been superseded by Coke or imitations, or are only of regional interest. The marketing and business building on an international scale is something white Americans have exceled at.

    Like


  317. @Anastasia

    The actual slur has not been verified. GZ trailed black youth because there had been break-ins there by black youth, in fact GZ was involved in apprehending one. Hence, not racist. Racial profiling is not racists when blacks are the legit main suspects

    I understand the wailing – blacks wail on race issues whenever they can. Just because the particular reason here was that GZ was not arrested immediately is just an excuse for the wailing. GZ is now arrested, it took a while, but the blacks will always wail.

    Like


  318. @Bliff:

    The slur may have not been verified, but I have listened to the tapes and I heard him say the word. Do you disagree? What could he have said that would make sense? Sure, if the suspects are proven to be black, profiling them is understandable. I remember reading somewhere that Zimmerman called the police on a 7-9 year old black boy. Is that not unnecessary profiling?

    Haha, no, you don’t get it. The injustice is the reason. Whites are always mad when a black person calls out the injustices and says their just ‘complaining’ and ‘whining’. No, its neither. I’m sorry but as long as there is racial injustice for anyone, injustice in general, there will be concern and people will be upset. I know its a hard concept for you and most of your race, considering justice is usually served immediately and if not immediately, justice is always being sought, but for others, that isn’t the case. Simply put: you don’t understand because you aren’t black.

    Like


  319. @Anastasia

    The injustice is the reason…..I know its a hard concept for you and most of your race…considering justice is usually served immediately

    Very racist, Anastasia, to condemn an entire race. Do you really think whites don’t know about “injustice” ? Do you really think that whites get justice on demand? Don’t you know about the American Revolution, and the injustices the colonists felt they got at the hands of the British Crown?

    You don’t much about white people, do you? You’re also promoting falseehoods, like white people have it just given to them all the time, while blacks are always denied.

    Like


  320. “Bliff,
    I think you have an anti-American and anti-white bias, which causes you to cast white American issues in a decidingly bad light.”

    As usual, you miss the point.

    Pemberton pulled his ORIGINAL”version” together from Mariani, who is a foreigner…it doesn’t matter what he added, without Mariani, no Coca Cola, without scientist traveling to gain knowledge from the Indians and Africans about medicinal plants they use, no Coca Cola…

    your Wiki search won’t change this fact.

    The only person making a big deal about this is you because you can’t just shut up and learn something new–you wish to be a blowhard and say something just for the sake of saying something.

    I’ll repeat myself…I’m anti-ignorance and anti-bullsh’t, things you represent…

    you come on this blog to put down your fellow AMERICAN countrymen who are black, so yes, if you think me (a foreigner) calling you out on your bullsh’t is anti-white and anti-American, then please feel free to think so…

    Like


  321. @Linda

    Pemberton pulled his ORIGINAL”version” together from Mariani, who is a foreigner…it doesn’t matter what he added, without Mariani, no Coca Cola, without scientist traveling to gain knowledge from the Indians and Africans about medicinal plants they use, no Coca Cola…

    Yes it does matter what Pemberton added and devised to make Coke. Coke is a different product. The changes are significant. And coke was carbonated, maybe not orginally, but that is significant change from early cola drinks.

    So, I object to your narrow interpretation that Pemberton “stole” the idea.

    Like


  322. Bliff:

    Where exactly did I condemn your whole race? I said most, which I feel is true. Whether you agree or not is your opinion. Yep, I feel like they do for the most part, especially when it comes to black-white issues, which is what I’m talking about. Don’t YOU know that the American Revolution happened between white people, right? It was injustice between white people, which is very different from injustice between black and white people. White people don’t normally face racial injustices here in America.

    Maybe I don’t, but I never claimed to know a lot about a certain racial group. I am not promoting falsehoods, but thank you for putting words into my mouth such as “like white people have it just given to them all the time, while blacks are always denied.” Now, did I say that? Hmm… no. I’m just saying that usually, black people face less justice in the criminal system in comparison.

    You should re-read what I wrote instead of jumping to conclusions and assumptions about what is written.

    Like


  323. @Anastasia

    It was injustice between white people, which is very different from injustice between black and white people.

    No, Anastasia, injustice is injustice, it just has many different forms.

    Like


  324. “Bliff,
    So, I object to your narrow interpretation that Pemberton “stole” the idea.”

    Bliff, before I mentioned it, you had no idea about Coco-coca’s inception…so who cares how you feel.

    so your objection to the FACT that Pemberton imitated Mariani’s ingredients to get himself started, makes no sense….he had to start somewhere…he was not the original creator..accept it and move on

    Every idea and design has been changed and revised since the original design–so what the h’ll is your point.

    Are you still flying in the first plane that was ever designed….no

    Are you driving in a model T car…no

    Even the ingredients in the cereal you eat has been changed in the last 20 years.

    Like I said, Bliff, you are talking just to be heard.

    Like


  325. @linda

    he had to start somewhere…he was not the original creator..accept it and move on. That’s not you said originally, which was:

    White Americans from the past were quite adept at inventing and STEALING and patenting other peoples ideas (aspirin, chocolate, coca-cola, etc)

    Now you’re agreeing with me.

    Furthermore, I didn’t see any evidence that Pemberton attempted to hide that his Coke was based on earlier ideas. If he what he did could be characterized as “STEALING”, then I would think that he would have claimed Coke as completely his own.

    Every idea and design has been changed and revised since the original design…. Yep, i agree, and you have finally come to your senses.

    This MY anti-BS and anti-ignorance campaign against YOUR BS and ignorance, Linda.

    Like


  326. “Furthermore, I didn’t see any evidence that Pemberton attempted to hide that his Coke was based on earlier ideas. If he what he did could be characterized as “STEALING”, then I would think that he would have claimed Coke as completely his own.”

    You wish and hope on your best day that I was ignorant but the truth is I educate you everytime you read my post….does that reality burn?

    Bliff, you do know that patenting laws apply country to country right?

    and you do remember that Coca Cola’s ingredients were “top-secret”, right?

    If you imitate someone, you copied them…if you didn’t ask that persons permission for something, you stole it…some people say “borrow” but at the end of the day, it did not ORIGINATE with you…

    Get over it, Bliff…Pemberton copied a foreigner to form his product…

    Bliff, please stop making yourself appear more simple than you usually do.

    You have no shame in highlignting your ignorance.

    Like


  327. @linda

    remember that Coca Cola’s ingredients were “top-secret”,

    Yep, Coke’s formula is protected as a trade secret, not a patent, because to patent something you have to disclose it, and the patent expires after a period of time, while a trade secret does not. Since Pemberton’s formula was different from other versions, it can be protected as a trade secret.

    you didn’t ask that persons permission for something, you stole it…..Pemberton copied a foreigner to form his product No, he copied yes, stole, no. If a product, like Mariani’s is available for sale on the open market, then it cannot be considered to be “stolen” in any commerical context. Since I am not aware of Pemberton denying that he based his product on earlier versions, he cannot be accused of stealing in a “moral” context either.

    You were getting reasonable in your earlier post, now you’re reversing your self again.

    Linda, you screwed up with your White Americans from the past were quite adept at inventing and STEALING and patenting other peoples ideas (aspirin, chocolate, coca-cola, etc)

    Now you’re just trying to dig yourself out of a hole, while I screw your butt to the wall.

    What about aspirin? It was investigated and extracted by several European scientists. The Bayer company, a German company, eventually gained the rights. How are you going to claim that Americans stole this idea?

    Like


  328. Bliff,

    Everytime you think, the nation weakens.

    I could switch the white and black references in your statement and it would be equally valid. ( It’s imminent, not eminent.) For example, look at the Treyvon Martin case. One case of a Hispanic on black possible crime and the black community wailing was at high pitch, when the truth is there is little white on black crime.

    Even if that is true, that doesn’t make it any less painful considering (and you will hate reading this) white-on-black crimes throughout history.

    And let me ask you something, why is it considered whining that black people get upset over a case of a white-Hispanic male killing a young black teenage male, but you expect everyone, including black people to feel sorry if a black person attacked a white person?

    Like


  329. Bliff again,

    You know, Linda, I’ve heard this so many times from so many sources…gee, do you think MAYBE it’s true! Do ya? Maybe? Perhaps black Americans ARE like this!!! Strange, you hear this SO many times, but blacks insist it can’t be true…oh, wait, whites NEVER know anything about blacks. If we ever notice any difference between blacks and whites, we’re NEVER allowed to say anthing….because every black knows WHITES are always racists!!

    It’s more than obvious that you’ve had very little contact with black people, and even less time listening or conversing with them to know that not all or most of them fit the lame images in your head. Yet, you parade around as if you know more about black people than black people themselves.

    That is arrogant ignorance at its worst, and you are its poster child.

    Like


  330. Linda,

    I don’t know about you, but this sounds kinda misogynistic from Bliff:

    Now you’re just trying to dig yourself out of a hole, while I screw your butt to the wall.

    Bliff is nothing more than a racist cyber-bully who gets his high from antagonizing people who don’t agree with him.

    Like


  331. “Bliff,
    Linda, you screwed up with your White Americans from the past were quite adept at inventing and STEALING and patenting other peoples ideas (aspirin, chocolate, coca-cola, etc)”

    I stand by my statements because it’s a historical fact…you wishing to beat this dead horse back to life won’t change that fact.

    You’re very emotionally invested in this discussion aren’t you…you’re getting so emotional, you’re losing your objectivity.

    I didn’t say it was a crime for Pemberton to copy, but he still copied…your singing and dancing doesn’t change that fact.

    This whole conversation began because you were being smug by stating

    “Whites have the ability to invent, and that continues, and it is desirable that it continue.

    American Blacks are also part of the Western culture and have opportunities to invent and build on the inventions of their culture. So far, they have been far less successful than whites.”

    I think you are disgrace to all Americans by not attempting to learn about your fellow American’s history or acknowledging their contributions to your and their country–America. You talk about black Americans as if they are foreigners–that’s a disgrace.

    I brought up Pemberton to emphasize the fact that it’s NOT white Americans abilities to invent that has given them success but their ability to take and use other cultures and countries ideas to assist them.

    ideas are not plucked out of thin air..they are conceived by ideas and knowledged gained from other people….just like Mairiani who gained his from a scientist that had to gain his from the Indians and Africans….

    I am not putting anyone down…that’s what you do….I am highlighting the fact that human beings don’t live in a bubble

    Like


  332. “brothawolf
    Linda,

    I don’t know about you, but this sounds kinda misogynistic from Bliff:

    Now you’re just trying to dig yourself out of a hole, while I screw your butt to the wall.

    Bliff is nothing more than a racist cyber-bully who gets his high from antagonizing people who don’t agree with him.”

    I totally agree. I don’t expect anything less coming from him.

    Like


  333. @linda

    I brought up Pemberton to emphasize the fact that it’s NOT white Americans abilities to invent that has given them success but their ability to take and use other cultures and countries ideas to assist them.

    I still object to you smearing white Americans by blatantly stating that we don’t invent, but take. You are way overstating that we got from other countries, and way understating what we have developed ourselves.

    This is an obvious racial putdown. Blacks want to excuse their own underachievement by trying, poorly, to trash white achievement.

    Blacks in Western countries live lives based upon the Western society they’re in. American blacks live American lives; their African cultural ancestry has little effect on their lives today. Would you say these Africans “stole” their lifestyles from whites?? If you object to this (I would if I were you) then you can understand why I object to you stating white Americans stole, and it seems you are saying we primarily steal, from others.

    Like


  334. “Blacks in Western countries live lives based upon the Western society they’re in. American blacks live American lives; their African cultural ancestry has little effect on their lives today. Would you say these Africans “stole” their lifestyles from whites?? If you object to this (I would if I were you) then you can understand why I object to you stating white Americans stole, and it seems you are saying we primarily steal, from others.”

    Linda says,

    This statement above has no relevence to our discussion, nor does it make sense.

    “Bliff@I still object to you smearing white Americans by blatantly stating that we don’t invent, but take. You are way overstating that we got from other countries, and way understating what we have developed ourselves.”

    Linda says,

    Object away, baby, doesn’t change historical facts.

    I’ll give you this as far as inventions go and say, some white Americans invent and some white Americans take ideas and concepts from other cultures to help them formulate their inventions…doesn’t that make you better…stop crying so much now.

    ….you, as a white American, have still yet to acknowledge the contributions that your black American countrymen have made to your American culture with their ideas and inventions….

    so why don’t you man up and throw the ball out for your team and tell us an invention created by your fellow American countryman who are black and how it has helped American society.

    Like


  335. @linda

    you, as a white American, have still yet to acknowledge the contributions that your black American countrymen have made to your American culture with their ideas and inventions….

    so why don’t you man up and throw the ball out for your team and tell us an invention created by your fellow American countryman who are black and how it has helped American society.

    Like


  336. @linda
    you, as a white American, have still yet to acknowledge the contributions that your black American countrymen have made to your American culture with their ideas and inventions….

    so why don’t you man up and throw the ball out for your team and tell us an invention created by your fellow American countryman who are black and how it has helped American society.

    There is no equivalency between the contributions of white and black Americans. America is primarily white built. Live with that.

    Black inventions? The Super-Soaker.

    Like


  337. @Bliff

    I still object to you smearing white Americans by blatantly stating that we don’t invent, but take. You are way overstating that we got from other countries, and way understating what we have developed ourselves.

    Those are facts, Bliff. Linda doesn’t live in a private bubble of white supremacy like you do proclaiming to be an intellectual in race when you can barely pass civility.

    This is an obvious racial putdown. Blacks want to excuse their own underachievement by trying, poorly, to trash white achievement.

    Just like you want to excuse your racism to trash the black community? Just like you want to excuse your fucked up attitude problem when someone dares to correct you? Just like you like to pick and choose people to bash like you pick and choose certain statements from other people’s comments, twist them around, and throw it back in other’s faces?

    Blacks in Western countries live lives based upon the Western society they’re in. American blacks live American lives; their African cultural ancestry has little effect on their lives today. Would you say these Africans “stole” their lifestyles from whites?? If you object to this (I would if I were you) then you can understand why I object to you stating white Americans stole, and it seems you are saying we primarily steal, from others.

    Blacks in Western countries had their cultures, languages, pride, and ways of life beaten and stripped from them by white slave masters to make them more docile to their wants and needs. It’s no different than you wanting black people to agree with your sorry ass in every bullshit comment you make.

    Whites have stolen in the past and in the present. Deal with it. Your people are not incapable of the same crimes and sins other faces have done. Only thing is history teaches that whites take the cake with the crimes you committed on humanity. That is the truth.

    Like


  338. Bliff,

    There is no equivalency between the contributions of white and black Americans. America is primarily white built. Live with that.

    Black inventions? The Super-Soaker.

    Why don’t you live with this: America has been built off the blood of Native Americans and Africans through genocide, rape, and slavery. Why the hell are you so dead set against this fact? You’re more afraid of the truth than rich people are afraid of being taxed.

    And black people have made a lot more inventions than your mind can want to comprehend.

    http://inventors.about.com/od/blackinventors/a/black_inventors.htm

    Only someone so completely stupid and racist would think the descendants of Africa have contributed almost nothing to the world. But you seem to be highly proud of that.

    You the living embodiment of a superiority complex that has truly lost his mind.

    Like


  339. Great comments Linda, and , Brothawolf…

    Like


  340. Icarumba writes,

    “ONE of the shooters in Tulsa was white. We are ‘accepting’ him as white, lol..The other, Jake England is NOT. He is native American, neither is Zimmerman, he is Hispanic. These are just the facts.

    So unless anyone who is non-black is white now, the media is obviously unfairly pinning these as hate crimes committed solely by white people. And that isn’t true. Even still, the media continues to refer all of them as white, when England and Zimmerman are NOT.”

    Technically, England and Zimmerman are POC.

    Like


  341. I wonder,what would make white people think that black people want revenge?I thought racism was over and there aren’t any injustices against black people.

    Like


  342. I have to say that there are some whites who fear blacks who are bigoted but not intentionally racist. That is, they have some views related to color but don’t intentionally do or say racist things & even try to be fair about such matters. It could be helpful to inform them better rather than hating them for their ignorant disposition: it might win more to the correct point of view.

    Aside from that, it is not all ignorance. What do the statistics really say about the PERCENTAGEs of total blacks & whites, etc. who commit crimes or go to prison? Is it a higher %-age among blacks? If so – & if significantly higher – then it cannot all be attributed to racism, can it?

    So, if there is any legitimacy involved, the issue is not racism as much, even though that may hurt. It might actually be something that, in addition to race, involves poverty & lack of education – crime is higher among the poor & less educated in many places. Look world-wide. Find the poor people & compare crime among them for all races, then compare it to the wealthy places.

    I think shedding light on whites that poor white people, Asians, etc. can commit crimes like some may associate with poor blacks, could help enlighten the public. THAT, friends, is the lext step to doing something. When govt & the business world – the ones with ability to help – realize it is a poverty & social matter, they will be concerned more (I hope).

    Why? Business, profits, real estate values, etc….all are affected, and it becomes something they know they can act on rather than a matter of racial hatreds alone. With poverty comes latch-key kids, the time, despair & opportunities that leads to trouble, drugs, gangs, alcoholism, & doing crimes instead of doing something more useful & profitable. Education, jobs, & meaningful existence for many poor people should work against all that, and many politicians & businessmen know it is in their interests to gain (not lose) profits, real estate values, peace & security, etc. If Mexico were full of peace & safety, they’d have so much tourism & $$ coming in that they wouldn’t be crossing our border by the millions to go after U.S. jobs. They’d be working at home, closer to family.

    Like


  343. BTW, in the sense that one group is perceived by race in relation to something rather than each individual being regarded as a “blank slate” to be judged or viewd based on their own individual acts, that would show even such distinctions based on race to be racist.

    Thing is, life is never so simple. Consider terrorism. Due to political correctness (to some extent), we have to all watch out with vigilence toward all people as possible muslim terrorists. Even muslims fall prey to a certain amount of discrimination in that. Fact is, how many white muslims are there? How many non-muslim terrorists are there in those terror groups the USA has been harmed & threatend by? Granted, not all muslims are non-whites & not all of the terrorist groups are muslim; but, to ignore the facts makes it harder to be safe, right?

    That’s also how some whites get into their fear of blacks, regarding crime, even though blacks are by no means the only race that does crime. Again, the people need to be educated about truth, but ALSO the “group” involved in the statistics needs to help, too, as possible. Now, you cannot make all terrorists or all muslims forsake terrorism or hate, but until more do so, there will inevitably be some associations there in the minds of many – even among their own people.

    Like


  344. There is much prejudice and stereotyping on this site. I even found negative commentary about my own minority group: Appalachian and Cherokee parents. I don’t look for payback of the theft of our land via broadform deeds or forced relocation. Nobody owes me a thing because of the mistreatment of women since the dawn of time. I don’t want anything from anybody because I grew up a minority in a Sicilian, Italian neighborhood where mafia ruled. I am a minority still when I go to work every day. My religion, my heritage, my gender, all cause some to mistreat me in one way or another. So be it. I’ll continue to work to contribute to the good in this world without demonizing any other group of people. I’ll enjoy the uniqueness of the individuals around me and enjoy life as much as I can within the framework of modern society, with all of its ills. Sure, I’ve been the victim of violent crime motivated by prejudice and hatred. I survived. I still won’t be consumed by hatred for others. I am cautious in a quiet manner, but I do not apologize for avoiding those who appear to hate me because I look like some group that they’ve identified as the ‘enemy.’

    Like


  345. @ sivdnp,

    What does that have to do with this post? I mean, without the oppression Olympics angle? Last time I checked, talking about the effects of racism is not prejudice or stereotyping. Playing the ethnicity card doesn’t change that.

    Like


  346. This will sound harsh because I make no pretense of being politically correct. In fact, being politically correct is adding this problem.

    You wrote

    “According to the FBI numbers for America in 2009 where the race of the murderer and murdered were known:

    2963 white-on-white murders
    2604 black-on-black murders
    454 black-on-white murders
    209 white-on-black murders”

    As you said, much of these numbers come from whom one wants to associate with regularly. If blacks and whites avoid each other, then this explains these numbers to a high degree. Let’s look at chance of being a killer, because really this is a better thought process. If you don’t realize why associations totally confounds what you are saying then I give up. (for example, if I live on an island with no black people, then I will not fear them. the question is, which island (or neighborhood) am I safer on if demographics vary and crime rates reflect those by race in the US?)

    Okay, so let’s just judge the number of murderers-per-capita. Using your numbers:

    raw # white murderers=2963+209=3172
    raw # black murderers=2604+454=3058

    according to census bureaus)
    white population in 2009: 244298000
    black population in 2009: 39641000

    Let’s get the per capita murderer rate as a %
    white; 3172/244298000*100 = 0.001298414
    black: 3058/39641000*100 = 0.007714235

    Let’s divide these rates:
    black/white = 0.007714235/0.001298414 = 5.94127442

    So, based upon the numbers, the percentage of black people that are convicted of murder is 6 times higher than the same for whites.

    I do not believe this problem has anything to do with skin color. I believe it has to do with socio-economics and subculture differences.

    To deny that the black crime rate is higher makes you seem like a fool. If this crime rate is lowered, then perhaps white people will have less of a rational reason to fear blacks more than whites. By denying the problem, you will prevent the solution from coming about.

    People should obviously be judged as individuals, but we must make decisions based upon limited knowledge everyday to ensure our safety. Everyone does this, it is probabilistic decision making. It is absolutely logical to be more fearful of a black man than a white man, if all you know is their race. Address that problem directly and perhaps it will change for the better.

    Like


  347. This blog post is mainly committing the moralistic fallacy:

    if if would be unfortunate if it were true, then it must not be true

    If black crime rates are indeed higher per capita, then why should this not be openly discussed?

    And the whole comparison of harlem to chinatown as a little thought experiment to prove something deep, how incredibly weak.

    You hold an unfalsifiable position, and that is not a strength.,

    Like


  348. @ Serb

    “To deny that the black crime rate is higher makes you seem like a fool.”

    Where did I do that? Maybe you should try to read what I WRITE instead of stereotyping my point of view.

    In fact, I said, “The black murder rate in America is like 6 to 7 times higher” – something you set about to show in your comment as if I had never said it.

    Like


  349. If anyone is fallacious, it is you. On one hand you attribute these crime rates to ‘culture’ not skin colour. You then go on to state that overall, whites should be afraid of blacks. So Serb, If you go walking in an upper-class black neighbourhood, will you be accosted some how? Or are all blacks criminally inclined? Oh yes, Those middle and upper-middle class negroes are lying in wait so they can give into their baser natures, rob the sucker for old times sake, and hope they don’t get caught. How about those wall street types who have done long term damage eh? Most of them are white, what’s their excuse? Explain them, they have done more long term damage.

    Like


  350. @ Serb

    Based on your logic, and to pick up on what Herneith said, whites should be banned from top positions in Wall Street. Since, according to you, judging people by what others of their race have done is sound reasoning. You know, “Everyone does this, it is probabilistic decision making. It is absolutely logical,” blah blah.

    Like


  351. So, why should black people have to take care of crime in order for white people to not fear them? Why can’t white people examine themselves as to why they fear blacks collectively seeing as how white people are not exactly “crime-less.”

    Serb, you’re kidding yourself if you think that by lowering black crime rates white people will have less of a reason to fear blacks. Even if the crime rate is at 0%, that will not change how whites view blacks. They will still see them as “children of the corn” types even if black crime was nonexistent. Many whites will still scapegoat any problem society has on black people as we have seen several times in history. The motto of this country is “It’s black people’s fault.”

    We all know good and well that if black crime miraculously disappears, white crime will continue. And something tells me that just as we’ve seen with people like Susan Smith and Bethany Storro, they will be certain white people who will commit a crime and blame it on a black person who never existed.

    Like


  352. People fear each other to some degree. White people fear other white people they don’t know as well as people of any race they don’t know, at least to some degree. If you do not have some fear of strangers, then you are a liar, an invalid, or incredibly naive.

    Now, without knowing anything else about a person by race, which person would you at very first fear more, a white person or a black person?

    If you have to choose between two exact alleys at night to walk down, one has a black person in it walking toward and the other a white person, which do you choose? Based upon crime rates, you know the logical answer.

    This is my basic point.

    As long as black crime rate is SEVERAL times higher, then expect for a generalized fear to persist. Duh.

    It has nothing to do with someone at your work that knows you judging you, ok?

    I’m talking about generalities. Don’t expect this to go away until the difference in measurable danger goes away. I’m sorry if it hurts your feelings but it is the truth.

    Like


  353. “Why can’t white people examine themselves as to why they fear blacks collectively seeing as how white people are not exactly “crime-less.””

    White people commit crime, it is just that black people on a % basis commit much more. We are talking about relative numbers here. I fear white people also to some extent, I just fear black people more. If you say you don’t have any fear of others, you are a liar or have a brain issue. Humans fear strangers to some degree, or at least are healthily on guard, otherwise we wouldn’t lock doors.

    Why is this hard to confront for you? Why is how it will obviously influence public perception hard to confront?

    Now, you are extrapolating into a future without black crime, and still whites will fear and judge and blame, etc;……….this is not a point to what I brought up. I said that it is rational to fear blacks more than whites given that the relative crime rates. Address that, don’t play games.

    Like


  354. “Based on your logic, and to pick up on what Herneith said, whites should be banned from top positions in Wall Street. Since, according to you, judging people by what others of their race have done is sound reasoning. You know, “Everyone does this, it is probabilistic decision making. It is absolutely logical,” blah blah.”

    Hard to say. What is the black crime rate on wall street? Do you have any numbers? Of the number of black people in these positions, what is the level of crime? I don’t think you know that.

    Next, did I say anything about banning anyone from anything? No, I supported the claim that based upon crime stats that fear of blacks in general is justified. I’m not quivering at all black people, but if someone asks me “if you see two people coming toward you at night and you don’t know them, would you like them to be black or white?” The answer based upon statistics is obvious.

    Forming expectations based upon prior experience is logical, it is inductive reasoning. That really is what the PC movements are fighting against, inductive reasoning. I don’t think I know much about someone based upon skin color, but it is information. Skin color correlates with socio-economic class, subculture, parental involvement, etc. Black people are more likely to have a past that will cause them to commit a crime. Knowing skin color is enough to tip where your best bet lies SLIGHTLY to one side.

    I think you guys are hung up quivering fear and firm knowledge, that’s not it.

    Let’s say I have a black and white guy in front of me, and they aren’t wearing their own clothes. I have to choose one to carry $50 across town. I have no information other than the white guy is more likely to have had a better background that would not cause criminality. He is a slightly better bet. In reality, the black guy might be a saint and the white guy a killer, but in that situation of limited knowledge, trusting the white guy slightly more is still logical.

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  355. “f anyone is fallacious, it is you. On one hand you attribute these crime rates to ‘culture’ not skin colour. You then go on to state that overall, whites should be afraid of blacks. So Serb, If you go walking in an upper-class black neighbourhood, will you be accosted some how? Or are all blacks criminally inclined? Oh yes, Those middle and upper-middle class negroes are lying in wait so they can give into their baser natures, rob the sucker for old times sake, and hope they don’t get caught. How about those wall street types who have done long term damage eh? Most of them are white, what’s their excuse? Explain them, they have done more long term damage.”

    Listen, you can come up with a million extenuating factors that change things, but I thought we were talking about generalized fear of black people based upon crime rates, right?

    If you know nothing about two populations on two separate islands except that one island’s population has 6 TIMES the crime rate, which island do you reckon contains safer people on average? This is so bleedingly obvious that you are doing backflips to not admit this. I promise if you admit the obvious implication of the crime rates by race, then you won’t die or get struck by lightning.

    Did I mention walking through a rich black neighborhood? Did I say all blacks are criminals? No. You are putting words in my mouth so as to weaken my general argument. Of course rich blacks are less likely to be criminals. Of course, not all blacks are criminals. Do you think these obvious things are actually points in your favor?

    Poor, uneducated people, from bad families are more likely to be criminals. Skins color correlates with these factors, hence the black crime rate per capita that literally dwarfs the white crime rate per capita.

    What about wall street types? You said most were white. Okay, what was the crime rate per capita by race? Let’s say 1% were black, did they commit around 1% of the crimes there? You don’t know and neither do I. So it is not a point in your favor.

    Am I afraid of the economy crashing? Sure. Am I physically fearful of those people? No. I don’t expect to be killed by a white collar criminal. Any fear I have of them is different. I would not fear being lost in a neighborhood of white collar criminals, but would fear being lost in a neighborhood where many murders occur.

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  356. “@ Serb

    “To deny that the black crime rate is higher makes you seem like a fool.”

    Where did I do that? Maybe you should try to read what I WRITE instead of stereotyping my point of view.

    In fact, I said, “The black murder rate in America is like 6 to 7 times higher” – something you set about to show in your comment as if I had never said it.”

    Oh god, had to slip in the term stereotype, eh? It’s too bad the non-pejorative use of the words stereotype and discriminate and judge have been lost, it seems people no longer know what the words actually mean. For instance, discriminating among objects is so vitally important that a fair amount of mathematics is dedicated to it. Anyways…..if anything I was straw manning your argument.

    I did miss where you admitted that. Your move where you say that 6 to 7 (OMG!) time rates don’t matter because blacks are mostly violent toward blacks is a real stunner. If you were capable of EVER thinking that is a convincing argument, then I should not waste anymore time trying to change your mind. It is HORRIBLE reasoning.

    Why? Because blacks and whites still have a barrier as far as who they live with and around, work with, associate with, etc. It is natural that there would be more within race crime.

    So, blacks are killing at exaggerated rates the people that they traditionally mix with, other blacks, right? However, people outside the black community are killed less so. Is this a good argument for white people to want to enter into your community, to mix with and associate freely so that whites can be closer to that murderous action? No. You have actually made a case for white people to be afraid of black neighborhoods.

    Person 1: “one the yellow parrots are really fighting each other and several have been killed, do you think it is a good idea to put my green parrot in there?”

    Person 2: “yeah, I have here on a paper that yellow parrots prefer to attack yellow parrots, although from time to time they do attack green parrots also. so you should be good to go, no worries.”

    Person 1: “I’m out of here”

    Like


  357. Ah. Inductive reasoning. I see serb has never heard of David Hume. or Nassim Taleb. Shame. He seems like such a nice boy. Oh, an perheaps he should also Google ecological fallacy – for good measure.

    Like


  358. You know the main reason I’m wrong?

    Because for a black person, if I were right, it would be SUPER DEPRESSING.

    Like


  359. Here’s a map of NYS murders.

    http://projects.nytimes.com/crime/homicides/map

    here’s a map of race demography

    You honestly thing people are illogical in their subway riding behavior?

    What you are hung up on is that this feels like it is about you. If I met anyone on this board, I’m sure I’d like you. I have black friends. I had a long talk with one who is a teacher about black schools struggling on average. He totally agreed that the more black kids in a school usually the worse it fairs overall and so they need more attention. I DID NOT bring this up. He expressed frustration. I then said that people who are black, because of historical reasons, tend to have lower socio-economic status, etc. He agreed. I apologized because I had never been this frank about race and felt he might be upset. He was actually more upset at me feeling the need to apologize for having said the obvious truth.

    It is a similar situation to crime rates. It is not about the people discussing this on this board. I know you are all fine people. However, if given a choice between driving through an unknown black or unknown white neighborhood, my desire to be “compassionate and open minded” does not outweigh my survival instinct.

    Like


  360. @ Brahms…Hispanic is not a race. Zimmerman may not be “white” (Anglo) by your definition, but he isn’t exactly a person of color. And he only started playing up his Hispanic heritage because it was convenient, so he could say that he wasn’t racist. I’m pretty sure he identifies as white otherwise.

    But otherwise I don’t want to derail, so back into lurk mode…

    Like


  361. Serb, Serb, Serb,

    You said, “Now, without knowing anything else about a person by race, which person would you at very first fear more, a white person or a black person?”

    In the first place why fear someone based on race or color?

    Then you said, “If you have to choose between two exact alleys at night to walk down, one has a black person in it walking toward and the other a white person, which do you choose? Based upon crime rates, you know the logical answer.”

    In the second place why on Earth would anyone choose to walk down alleys at night?

    This is my basic point.

    Then you finished off with, “As long as black crime rate is SEVERAL times higher, then expect for a generalized fear to persist. Duh.”

    In the third place what is crime to you? Because it sounds like you’re talking about violent crime which is still erroneous as whites still outweigh blacks in violent crimes according to arrest numbers alone.

    Furthermore, given the recent economic collapse, the hyper-greed and corruption of corporations and the fact they basically go unpunished for their crookedness, I’d say it would make sense to fear a white man in a corporate office more as opposed to a black man in a ghetto.

    Like


  362. “Ah. Inductive reasoning. I see serb has never heard of David Hume. or Nassim Taleb. Shame. He seems like such a nice boy. Oh, an perheaps he should also Google ecological fallacy – for good measure.”

    The reason that Hume thought induction provided a problem is because it is so necessarily and obviously required for human thought and decision making, yet it cannot be proven to work because it must be proven using inductive reasoning. It is simply a neat paradox. You use inductive reasoning everyday, and in fact science and technology would come to a standstill without it.

    As far as Taleb, I’ve read Black Swan, and he is roundly criticized for his work. He doesn’t deserve to mentioned in the same sentence as Hume. His whole thesis can be summarized as “rare events can have major impacts”. Hardly worth more than a pamphlet, and well understood prior to him.

    Now as far as the ecological fallacy, I know this very well, you happen to be discussing this with someone who writes statistical packages. I am not committing it, and you are seemingly misunderstanding it. It comes about when you attempt to find correlations in summarized data (relationship between weight and heart disease by state) and then think that the same relationship occurs within an individual. The reason is that crime data is recorded at the individual level, you count each criminal and then record their race. So the level of data collection and inference are the same.

    If you take a random sample of 100 blacks and 100 whites, quite simply, there will be more criminals in the random sample of blacks. There is no ecological fallacy here.

    Like


  363. Serb, (continued)

    You then said, “White people commit crime, it is just that black people on a % basis commit much more. We are talking about relative numbers here. I fear white people also to some extent, I just fear black people more. If you say you don’t have any fear of others, you are a liar or have a brain issue. Humans fear strangers to some degree, or at least are healthily on guard, otherwise we wouldn’t lock doors.”

    What you don’t know is that this society is a society of fear mongering. It imposes the “shock doctrine” to get people to be afraid of threats that are minor compared to the major, more destructive threats, the ones who chill in their own offices finding out ways to get richer and richer by any and all means necessary.

    Now you asked, “Why is this hard to confront for you? Why is how it will obviously influence public perception hard to confront?”

    We are not afraid of hearing or reading it. We are just sick of it. It’s just another way of telling us that we are the problem when it’s not that simple. Like I said, even if black crime rates plummet instantaneously, many white people would still fear and hate the crap out of us.

    Besides, there are people doing something about. What are you doing?

    Finally, you said, “Now, you are extrapolating into a future without black crime, and still whites will fear and judge and blame, etc;……….this is not a point to what I brought up. I said that it is rational to fear blacks more than whites given that the relative crime rates. Address that, don’t play games.”

    It may not be your point, but you can’t honestly not expect other people to get their points across. And why should anyone address what you want to address in a blog not meant for you? Why not start a blog of your own and address your concerns and not tell other bloggers to do your bidding as if they were your servants of something?

    Like


  364. Bulanik,

    You should see me in a doctor’s office lol.

    Like


  365. “In the first place why fear someone based on race or color?”

    Because it correlates with things that actually cause criminality.

    “In the second place why on Earth would anyone choose to walk down alleys at night?”

    It is a simple thought experiment to illustrate a point. I could easily recast this to a more mundane example. And sometimes you are actually found in a situation where, through no fault of your own, you must walk down an alley at night.

    “In the third place what is crime to you? Because it sounds like you’re talking about violent crime which is still erroneous as whites still outweigh blacks in violent crimes according to arrest numbers alone.”

    There are more white criminals because there are more white people. If you look at an individual, you must look at per capita rates. The per capita crime rate among blacks is much higher.

    “Furthermore, given the recent economic collapse, the hyper-greed and corruption of corporations and the fact they basically go unpunished for their crookedness, I’d say it would make sense to fear a white man in a corporate office more as opposed to a black man in a ghetto.”

    So you do think that per capita crime rates matter then. Otherwise, this statement does not hold. However, where is the data for white collar crime per capita by race? I don’t think it exists. Correct me if I’m wrong. What do I fear more: a single person making a bad decision that might contribute to a bad economy or a single person that might stick a knife in me? I fear immediate physical harm more, and so do most people.

    Like


  366. “@brothawolf, your patience is incredible.”

    And his framing of this is incorrect.

    You might be used to living in areas of elevated crime, I don’t know. But if crime rates per capita by race are accurate, knowing that a black person is on average 6 to 7 times more likely to commit a crime is sobering.

    Like


  367. I have black friends.

    As soon as you saw that, you should have stopped talking to hom.

    Like


  368. Serb (last response to this series, for now),

    You said, “What you are hung up on is that this feels like it is about you…”

    STOP RIGHT THERE!

    That is the problem. You don’t understand and won’t understand why this is so. If you would listen instead of assert yourself as if you’re some kind of expert, you might learn something. You don’t know as much as you think you do. So, what’s the harm in listening for you?

    We don’t expect you to agree, but at least stop and think before you tell us the usual “black people commit more crimes” line we’ve heard hundreds of times even after our responses that explain or disprove your statement. Whether you know it or not, we are aware of crime in black neighborhoods, and there are people doing something about it as best as they can. They may not be as productive based on your expectations, but who are you to judge anyway? You are here telling the blogger what to blog. Come on, man.

    Like


  369. satanforce,

    I was about to say something about that, but another line got to me first.

    Like


  370. Paragraph starting with

    “What you don’t know is that this society is a society of fear mongering. ”

    We are a species that fears death and being physically harmed. It is rational.

    “We are not afraid of hearing or reading it. We are just sick of it.”

    You will continue to hear about it while it is still true.

    “It’s just another way of telling us that we are the problem when it’s not that simple. ”

    I didn’t say you are a problem. I was stating that based on statistics, it is logical to be more wary of blacks. I am not making any meta-point about the problems of society at large.

    “Besides, there are people doing something about. What are you doing?”

    There are all sorts of things I am concerned with but don’t have the opportunity to do much about. I can still point out the concern. What you are doing here is a classical rhetorical trick, but it is not a point. What if I expressed concerns over water pollution? Would it be a point to point out that I am not actively going out to prevent water pollution by others? No.

    “It may not be your point, but you can’t honestly not expect other people to get their points across. And why should anyone address what you want to address in a blog not meant for you? Why not start a blog of your own and address your concerns and not tell other bloggers to do your bidding as if they were your servants of something?”

    If someone is disagreeing with me, I expect them to disagree with the points I make and address them. This blog isn’t meant for me? I’m able to read it and comment…hmm. I am not trying to make you my servant. I am simply pointing out that arguments that do not address my argument by definition do not address my argument.

    Like


  371. “As soon as you saw that, you should have stopped talking to hom.”

    Oh yeah, I said something that is a classic preface to a racist tirade. Therefore what follows must be a racist tirade. Sorry, it just doesn’t work. I said that to preface that many black people understand my point. This isn’t about any of you personally. It is about the logical basis for why people would be more comfortable in certain areas.

    Like


  372. “Noticed that too…we know what we have here.”

    Marginalize and ignore all that I said based upon one somewhat tone deaf sentence. That is very convenient for you.

    Like


  373. @serb

    A question : “In the first place why fear someone based on race or color?”

    Your answer : Because it correlates with things that actually cause criminality.

    *facepalm

    Just out of curiosity how exactly does race and color relate to things that cause criminality, according to you.

    Like


  374. “We don’t expect you to agree, but at least stop and think before you tell us the usual “black people commit more crimes” line we’ve heard hundreds of times even after our responses that explain or disprove your statement. Whether you know it or not, we are aware of crime in black neighborhoods, and there are people doing something about it as best as they can. They may not be as productive based on your expectations, but who are you to judge anyway? You are here telling the blogger what to blog. Come on, man.”

    You are conceding then that black people commit more crimes per capita. That means you’ve conceded. There is no disproving our explaining it. It is a brute fact. If someone is afraid of crime, then on average they would be more cautious around those that commit more crime. That’s it. No big argument, no reason to explain it all away or whatever. It’s simply how things are right now.

    It doesn’t matter if people are trying to change it as far as my point goes. It still is this way.

    Who am I to judge? This is not a point. It is like saying “well that’s just your opinion”.

    I am not telling anyone what to blog. I am responding to a blog in the comments section.

    Like


  375. serb,

    You said, “You might be used to living in areas of elevated crime, I don’t know. But if crime rates per capita by race are accurate, knowing that a black person is on average 6 to 7 times more likely to commit a crime is sobering.”

    You ever heard heard of that old saying about a person who assumes? Right now, you are the biggest one of those.

    You don’t know where I live. My neighborhood is poor, black and peaceful. Sure, there were instances of violent crime, but it was less than a few within the last 20 years. I’d say about three incidents altogether.

    I want to know where you get this information that you keep presenting. Did you calculate them yourself, or did you get it from somewhere or someone else and believed it without question? Is this information based on news reports or the usual race realist disciples?

    You say that a black person is on average 6 to 7 times more likely to commit a crime? You’re pretty much trying to attribute anything criminal to black skin. Yet, you still haven’t answered my question as to what is crime to you.

    Like


  376. “A question : “In the first place why fear someone based on race or color?”

    Your answer : Because it correlates with things that actually cause criminality.

    *facepalm

    Just out of curiosity how exactly does race and color relate to things that cause criminality, according to you.”

    What makes someone more likely to commit a crime? This has been studied extensively. I think it is uncontroversial to say that lower educational attainment and lower income elevates crime rates in a population. Can you seriously disagree with this? Because of various historic factors, blacks on average have lower educational attainment and lower incomes. This tends to explain the huge difference in per capita crime rates.

    Do you admit the disparity in crime rates? How would you explain it? It certainly isn’t caused by melanin concentration. It so happens that skin color, unfortunately, correlates with life situations that tend to increase criminality. Any other reasoning is far worse. What else could it be?

    Like


  377. “You MIGHT be used to living”

    Brothawolf, you simply aren’t being intellectually honest here.

    Like


  378. I have black friends.

    Some of my best friends really tan in the summer months….

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  379. You say that a black person is on average 6 to 7 times more likely to commit a crime?

    That is the whole problem with serb;s argument. It falls under the ecological fallacy.

    quoting the Wikipedia

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecological_fallacy

    This fallacy assumes that individual members of a group have the average characteristics of the group at large. However, statistics that accurately describe group characteristics do not necessarily apply to individuals within that group. For a mathematical explanation of this see how variability of individuals is much greater than the variability of their mean.

    Gentlepeople, dismissed. Don’t forget to visit my new blog. Just click my name.

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  380. “I want to know where you get this information that you keep presenting. Did you calculate them yourself, or did you get it from somewhere or someone else and believed it without question? Is this information based on news reports or the usual race realist disciples?

    You say that a black person is on average 6 to 7 times more likely to commit a crime? You’re pretty much trying to attribute anything criminal to black skin. Yet, you still haven’t answered my question as to what is crime to you.”

    The blogger concedes that black crime rates per capita are higher. Go to the FBI crime stats, get numbers by race, and then divide each by the population by race. It is simply to do. I don’t consider myself a race realist or whatever. But I don’t see how anyone can deny that all statistics show a big difference.

    I am not trying to attribute all crimes to black skin. I am simply noticing differences in crime rates per capita by race. I fully realize that all races commit crimes. I am not in anyway blaming all crime on black people. Again, you are being dishonest. What is crime to me? Things that violate the law and can get you arrested and subsequently shows up in crime stats. Is that controversial?

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  381. Satanforce, you are simply misusing the ecological fallacy here. I’ve explained why in a previous post.

    Like


  382. “Tell us about your black friends. Brute facts.”

    You should understand that this is a horrible way to reason. I could be the grand wizard of the KKK, and if I stated something statistically true and my argument was sound, it would be true despite who I was. This is why the ad hominem fallacy is a fallacy.

    It’s unfortunate that things can’t be discussed in a somewhat dispassionate manner.

    Like


  383. serb,

    Let’s straighten something out.

    I said, ““We don’t expect you to agree, but at least stop and think before you tell us the usual “black people commit more crimes” line we’ve heard hundreds of times even after our responses that explain or disprove your statement. Whether you know it or not, we are aware of crime in black neighborhoods, and there are people doing something about it as best as they can. They may not be as productive based on your expectations, but who are you to judge anyway? You are here telling the blogger what to blog. Come on, man.”

    You said, “You are conceding then that black people commit more crimes per capita. That means you’ve conceded. There is no disproving our explaining it. It is a brute fact. If someone is afraid of crime, then on average they would be more cautious around those that commit more crime. That’s it. No big argument, no reason to explain it all away or whatever. It’s simply how things are right now.”

    I did not concede to anything you’ve said. I said we are aware of it and there are people doing something about it. We do not try to hide there are problems going on in black communities, but we also know we are not the only communities with problems and that they are not as numerous as they once were in the past.

    You’re starting to repeat yourself. If what you said is irrefutable, show us where you got it so we can look it up for ourselves. Otherwise, who said it was a brute fact? Why is it a brute fact?

    Sure, if someone is afraid of crime, they would be more cautious about those who commit crimes, NOT THE WHOLE GOTDERN RACE TO WHICH THE CRIMINALS BELONG, EINSTEIN!!! To assume that most of an entire group is part of the criminal underworld is stupid. Plain and simple. Only someone with low intelligence would make such a conclusion.

    And here’s the thing, you’ve said it nonetheless and expect us to just agree with you? Screw that! What you’ve said is no different than what fifty other people who pass by here have said. It doesn’t make it true and it’s not intelligent especially if you just go by numbers which could be manipulated anyway.

    Like


  384. @serb

    If I met anyone on this board, I’m sure I’d like you.

    Gratified i’m sure!

    I have black friends. I had a long talk with one …

    Did you tell him about these shocking statistics you had uncovered?

    Like


  385. Serb,

    I’ll end by saying “Brothawolf, you simply aren’t being intellectually honest here.”

    Well, when YOU start to sound like an intellectual, then we’ll talk.

    Like


  386. “That is the whole problem with serb;s argument. It falls under the ecological fallacy.”

    Please explain how stating that on average small cars get 50% better gas mileage than SUVs is not also an ecological fallacy.

    The ecological fallacy occurs when the unit of data collection does not match the unit of decision making. In the case I am presenting, they are both at the individual level since crime stats and decision making around an individual both occur at the individual level.

    It is demonstrated here:

    “variability of individuals”

    If the ecological fallacy meant what you think it does, there would be no variability within an individual. You have cherry picked a part of the definition without understanding it in context.

    Like


  387. @serb

    I agree with you on lower income/low education = more violent crime. Also, it is very clear that there are huge racial disparities for crime rates. However, I disagree with this statement by you, “It so happens that skin color, unfortunately, correlates with life situations that tend to increase criminality.” I feel that life situations have no relation to skin color since a person can be from any social class regardless of skin color.

    Like


  388. serb. Why are you here? Did you like, wake up this morning and say to yourself “Oh I really need to to correct some black people and make them feel depressed?”or is this an intellectual exercise, like a crossword puzzle? Really, I’d like to know.

    Like


  389. Here’s one source of statistics, if you simply say that the stats are faulty, then there is no point of any discussion using numbers and we can just make up our own realities.

    http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/homicide/race.cfm

    Like


  390. there would be no variability within an individual. You have cherry picked a part of the definition without understanding it in context.

    So you;re saying that the people you are currently debating are seven times more likely to commit crimes than you?

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  391. “I agree with you on lower income/low education = more violent crime. Also, it is very clear that there are huge racial disparities for crime rates. However, I disagree with this statement by you, “It so happens that skin color, unfortunately, correlates with life situations that tend to increase criminality.” I feel that life situations have no relation to skin color since a person can be from any social class regardless of skin color.”

    You are confusing possibility and probability. A black person is more likely to be from a situation that fosters crime. Exceptions do not disprove a probability statement, as a probability statement fully acknowledges that exceptions exist.

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  392. “So you;re saying that the people you are currently debating are seven times more likely to commit crimes than you?”

    No the fact that you are here and discussing this is another piece of information that goes into my conditional probability expectations. We all make decisions based upon conditional probabilities, or at least should, this is what decision theory is all about. As I learn more about a person, my probabilities change.

    The point is that a randomly chosen black person is 6 or so times more likely to be a criminal than a randomly chosen white person. You are not randomly chosen. If I see two people on the street and nothing about them except their race, then they are being randomly chosen in terms of the variable of interest (criminality).

    Are you denying that the number indicate that if randomly select 1,000 black people and put them in a room and 1,000 white people at random and put them in a room that the statistics indicate that there would be 6 or so times more criminals in the black room than white room? That is the thought experiment, and what I am saying holds. Now, think of any random sample, and you get my argument. This is why the ecological fallacy doesn’t mean here what you’d like.

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  393. “Your question: …how exactly does race and color relate to things that cause criminality…hasn’t really been answered convincingly at all.”

    It is not a necessary relationship, it just is in the US given our history. Black people have been treated poorly, etc. They are more likely to be in a crime fostering environment as a result. The skin color is merely an indicator of past ills that have present day ramifications. That is all. If this is not the case, how would you explain the crime rate difference? I believe my explanation is the most humane.

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  394. “serb. Why are you here? Did you like, wake up this morning and say to yourself “Oh I really need to to correct some black people and make them feel depressed?”or is this an intellectual exercise, like a crossword puzzle? Really, I’d like to know.”

    I ran across this blog randomly. I read it and the comments. I was upset at the lack of rigor. I then decided to comment.

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  395. “I have black friends. I had a long talk with one …

    Did you tell him about these shocking statistics you had uncovered?”

    No. He was in a prestigious graduate program for secondary ed at a major university I was also attending. He brought up that he was having major problems with his class. He noted that the school almost entirely black students. I asked if he saw a correlation between race demographics and performance, behavior, etc in the school. He said that this was obviously the case. I then stated what my perception, that the pattern is related to income levels etc and that because of past ills this is correlated with skin color, and that obviously skin color can’t be a causative agent. He fully agreed. I apologized pre-emptively because I was afraid I had offended him. He was shocked I apologized and said that what I said was simply the truth.

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  396. We all make decisions based upon conditional probabilities, or at least should, this is what decision theory is all about. As I learn more about a person, my probabilities change.

    I see. You’re a student. Just itching to test out your theories on a nest of angry nigras. Sir, we are NOT rational decision making machines. People rely on heuristics, frames, and rules of thumb, NOT conditional probability to make their decisions. We have had 30 years of behavioral economics and 100 years of Freud telling us that.

    Now, think of any random sample, and you get my argument

    Sir, we live in the real world, not Schaum’s Outlines on Probability. Get your head out of the damn textbooks. Your assignment for tonight is to download Taleb’s “Ludic Fallacy” and explain why idealized models are harmful when dealing with real life situations.

    Dismissed.

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  397. ” Tell us about your black friends, serb.”

    Again, you are shaking this like a rag doll. It is not a point

    You are committing the ad hominem fallacy. You are not addressing my point but trying to undermine me by bringing up a verbal misstep in terms of tone.

    The argument being made, that per capita crime stats by race should not influence how people make decisions, is faulty.

    If we were talking about anything else, you would fully agree with my reasoning. Because we are talking about a sensitive and controversial issue, what I am saying is now wrong. What you are making a special plea.

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  398. “I see. You’re a student.”

    No, I have several advanced degrees in areas that require data analysis.

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  399. I’ve read Taleb. Have you read the criticism of his work? All he says is that distributions often have fat tails and that rare events can have huge impacts especially in complex systems. It is not pertinent to the discussion.

    The fact that you misused the ecological fallacy indicates that you cannot instruct me here.

    I had no intention of stirring people up. I reacted to the content of the post. I have been the least emotional person in this exchange.

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  400. “Sir, we live in the real world, not Schaum’s Outlines on Probability. Get your head out of the damn textbooks. Your assignment for tonight is to download Taleb’s “Ludic Fallacy” and explain why idealized models are harmful when dealing with real life situations.”

    Our entire conception of reality is an idealized model that we build in our heads via sensory input.

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  401. “Sir, we are NOT rational decision making machines. People rely on heuristics, frames, and rules of thumb, NOT conditional probability to make their decisions. ”

    Ideally, we do use conditional probabilities. We cannot always. Decision theory shows that the best choice is the one that maximizes expected net benefit based upon conditional probabilities. Some people are more aware and better at this than others. You are simply stating that people diverge from their best decision making strategy therefore the best decision making strategy is somehow deprecated. You have it exactly backward.

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  402. I have a BS in biology, MS in biology, and PhD in mathematical ecology. Qualifications are odious on the internet, and you’ll probably use them against me such as:

    “just proves anyone can do that”

    “too bad you didn’t learn anything”

    “how come you had time to write all these posts then”

    etc.

    You asked though.

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  403. @serb

    You mentioned…

    “I then stated what my perception, that the pattern is related to income levels etc and that because of past ills this is correlated with skin color, and that obviously skin color can’t be a causative agent.

    That last part that I bolded..without that I initially believed that you were indicating that skin color = criminality. Now that I see that you meant otherwise makes things clearer. I still cannot get why your reasoning falls along the lines of relying on numbers to determine the potential criminal behavior of a person. That doesn’t seem reasonable. People can be like the weather-unpredictable- so probability isn’t always helpful.

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  404. You’re correct several is technically 3 or more. Big whoop, I made a minor error in the use of “several”.

    To address one point, do I have to address them all?

    If whites are more likely per capita to do negative thing X, then it is logical to fear the average white person in terms of doing that. I do not deny that at all.

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  405. I have several degrees, but only 2 advanced degrees, if you call an MS advanced which most do.

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  406. “That last part that I bolded..without that I initially believed that you were indicating that skin color = criminality. Now that I see that you meant otherwise makes things clearer. I still cannot get why your reasoning falls along the lines of relying on numbers to determine the potential criminal behavior of a person. That doesn’t seem reasonable. People can be like the weather-unpredictable- so probability isn’t always helpful.”

    If you see a stranger and know nothing besides what you can visually determine at that instant, then you make an initial conditional probability based on the only information you have. As you acquire more information, you update those probabilities. Life is a continual gamble in this way. People and anything being unpredictable is precisely why probability and statistics were conceived as subjects of study. And the weather is somewhat predictable. The key is to realize the limits of your predictive ability and to rationally update your predictions.

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  407. Our entire conception of reality is an idealized model that we build in our heads via sensory input.

    Sir, our conception of reality, is not reality itself. The fact that I can’t hear or see a bullet doesn’t make that bullet any less real. It is an idealized model, perhaps, but not one based on probabilities.

    There is absolutely nothing in your example that indicates that you are using a histogram, non-parametric regression, or another non-parametric technique. Thus, Taleb stands, as you seem to believe that criminality is normally distributed among blacks, based upon your belief in the usefulness of a random sample.

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  408. “serb, what makes you think you know what we are thinking about your qualifications? Steady on, old chap.”

    Because in anonymous confrontations on a controversial topic, that is par for the course. I don’t think my degrees make me right on any issue. They do allow me to understand things like the ecological fallacy that was mentioned on a deeper level. I’ve read the original papers that the concept of the ecological fallacy are based because it is intimately tied to some of the work I have done. That’s all.

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  409. “Sir, our conception of reality, is not reality itself. The fact that I can’t hear or see a bullet doesn’t make that bullet any less real. It is an idealized model, perhaps, but not one based on probabilities.

    There is absolutely nothing in your example that indicates that you are using a histogram, non-parametric regression, or another non-parametric technique. Thus, Taleb stands, as you seem to believe that criminality is normally distributed among blacks, based upon your belief in the usefulness of a random sample.”

    Not at all. Histograms and non-parameteric stats have nothing to do with this conversation. What you are saying might sound correct, but you are wrong here. You just are.

    I am talking about a simple 4 category contingency table. Columns would be race and rows presence or absence of crime committed. The numbers in each of the 4 squares are then counted. If anything, this would follow a binomial distribution. Taleb deals in areas where the response variable is a continuous variable, and many people simply assume a normal distribution. When they are wrong, there can be bad results. No argument here. And some stats techniques are more robust to these errors. Okay. Taleb is stating something that has been known for probably 100 years, and it still is not germane to this discussion.

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  410. “usefulness of a random sample.”

    Random samples are very useful in science, as is the concept of ceteris paribus (with other things the same [or on average controlling for unobservables, etc]).

    You are just throwing out buzzwords from Taleb’s book.

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  411. You are simply stating that people diverge from their best decision making strategy therefore the best decision making strategy is somehow deprecated. You have it exactly backward

    Since when are conditional probabilities our best decision making strategies? At a casino, maybe,

    Please explain how stating that on average small cars get 50% better gas mileage than SUVs is not also an ecological fallacy.

    You do know that a Subaru Impreza Wagon has the same fuel efficiency as a Ford F150, right? a href=And that this years Lancer is less fuel efficient than a 911 CarreraTurbo?/> “On average” don’t mean crap with either of those two very popular models because of the varability of individual models. You are like the statistician who drowned himself after he tried to wade in a pond with an average depth of four and a half feet.

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  412. “Qualifications are neither here nor there if your reasoning depends on numbers to predict human behaviour.”

    Let’s make this more extreme. How high would the white crime rate per capita have to be in excess of the black per capita crime rate for you to think it should influence your decision making? What if whites were 1,000 times more likely to be murderers per capita? Would that give you pause? Sure, if you know the person well, you ignore those stats, but what if you didn’t. How would you behave as far as caution and decision making around strangers?

    If even a huge disparity like X1,000 would not influence you, then I am flabbergasted.

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  413. “You do know that a Subaru Impreza Wagon has the same fuel efficiency as a Ford F150, right? a href=And that this years Lancer is less fuel efficient than a 911 CarreraTurbo?/> “On average” don’t mean crap with either of those two very popular models because of the varability of individual models. You are like the statistician who drowned himself after he tried to wade in a pond with an average depth of four and a half feet.”

    Yes, and so when you get more information about the make then you adjust your probabilities.

    Using your example, you go to rent a car and you can only choose SUV or coupe. You are concerned about gas mileage. On average, what category should you choose?

    As far as the statistician drowning, you are discussing things that happen despite probabilistic reasoning in light of little information or because of ignoring information available.

    Let’s say you are forced at gun point to dive head first into one of two pools. They appear to be normal pools from the outside, and you can’t see their depths. You know that the average depth of the first pool is 2 ft and the average depth of the other is 6 times that and so is 12 ft. Which pool do you dive into?

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  414. “The weather is somewhat predictable?
    Where I live this is not so.

    Human beings are not weather systems. Tell me what you know about human beings and why YOU feel this is a confrontation?”

    The weather is predictable of certain spatial, areal, and time frames everywhere. The weather in your area is at least predictable over a 1 minute time horizon. Why a confrontation? Because people are making emotional arguments toward me.

    “Let’s not make this more extreme.”

    You are stating that the way I am viewing things is illogical. Well, if my basic framework would hold weight in a more extreme situation, then explain why it suddenly becomes fallacious when things aren’t as extreme. A 6 times higher crime rate seems relatively extreme. We aren’t talking a 1.2 time higher rate.

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  415. Actually, taking ideas and pushing them to their farthest ends is a very useful way to test thought.

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  416. You stated that where you live weather is not predictable. It surely is somewhat predictable. I was only taking issue with that statement. I agree humans and weather are very different.

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  417. Are you denying that the number indicate that if randomly select 1,000 black people and put them in a room and 1,000 white people at random and put them in a room that the statistics indicate that there would be 6 or so times more criminals in the black room than white room? That is the thought experiment, and what I am saying holds. Now, think of any random sample, and you get my argument. This is why the ecological fallacy doesn’t mean here what you’d like.

    I am talking about a simple 4 category contingency table. Columns would be race and rows presence or absence of crime committed. The numbers in each of the 4 squares are then counted. If anything, this would follow a binomial distribution.

    Ah. I see what you did there. I am referring to your random sample of 1000 (normally distributed) black people. You know that. Why your random sample is irrelevant is because, unlike atoms, rocks, or Afrocentrists, we are dealing with people. Not dice or roulette tables. Simply taking a bunch of people and going criminal/not criminal ignores the all of the real contingencies that affect black people instead of white people.

    If we define criminal as someone who has already been sentenced then you would have to compare sentencing guidelines, stop and frisk activities, competence of lawyers etc. If you follow the other posts on this blog, then you’ll realize that for the most parts, a white person is less likely to be convicted for the same crime as a black person, especially minor drug offenses.

    That’s how the real world is sir. Not some Manichean place where we can just apply hypergeometric distributions and call it a day. It is a place of infinite flux, as well as stasis.

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  418. Using your example, you go to rent a car and you can only choose SUV or coupe. You are concerned about gas mileage. On average, what category should you choose?

    Assuming no information, the coupe. But in the real world, we are rarely without information, now aren’t we? I would be able to compare the mileage of every vehicle on the lot with a flick of my smartphone/

    Let’s say you are forced at gun point to dive head first into one of two pools. They appear to be normal pools from the outside, and you can’t see their depths. You know that the average depth of the first pool is 2 ft and the average depth of the other is 6 times that and so is 12 ft. Which pool do you dive into?

    Your example falls under the Ludic fallacy due to how abstract it is. What pool has 1) 2ft average depth 2) deep enough to drown a fully grown man and 3) has a variation that is not noticeable under normal conditions? Maybe the one in the universe with frictionless surfaces, and where we can ceteris paribus our way out of complications?

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  419. “Ah. I see what you did there. I am referring to your random sample of 1000 (normally distributed) black people. You know that.”

    A random sample would be done with a uniform distribution across all people in the sample. You would apply the binomial distribution to the sample to get expectations and reasonable bounds around it. Your insistence on bringing up normal distribution is baffling. I know Taleb harps on it, but so what?

    ” Simply taking a bunch of people and going criminal/not criminal ignores the all of the real contingencies that affect black people instead of white people.”

    You may very well be right that confounding factors explain away these discrepancies. Is there a study that does this? Until there is one, then it is rational to base actions on what data we have.

    Do I feel I know that underlying black crime rates are 6 times higher? No. I do not claim perfect knowledge. I think the numbers are startling enough that it influences how one should act based upon simple precaution. There is a difference between what someone feels they absolutely know and how someone acts based upon the information they have available.

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  420. “Your example falls under the Ludic fallacy due to how abstract it is.”

    Dude, Taleb did not invent the Ludic fallacy. It was well known by other names. It is often called a reification or the fallacy of misplaced concreteness. It has been known for 100s of years. I would never call it the Ludic fallacy because it gives Taleb credit he doesn’t deserve. Taleb’s book is not a stats manual, and his work is criticized because he: 1. oversimplifies real world data analysis examples and how statisticians work, for instance his harping on the normal distribution, 2. he acts like he discovered good statistical practice and is now informing people of his discoveries.

    What I did was give you a thought experiment to clarify things. I have actually rented cars ahead of time and all I could reserve was a car by class, I had no idea what the make or model would be. Further, abstraction is absolutely necessary for thought.

    Is it logical to secretly fear a black person at your work because you ignore the information you have about them? No. I’ve never made that point. You are imagining that my argument is that one has all this knowledge that we often do not have (model of car and a smart phone available, etc).

    You act as if baseline crime rate should have no bearing on your decision making in the situation I have described, when you know nothing about a person other than their appearance. That is absurd.

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  421. “Your example falls under the Ludic fallacy due to how abstract it is. What pool has 1) 2ft average depth 2) deep enough to drown a fully grown man and 3) has a variation that is not noticeable under normal conditions? Maybe the one in the universe with frictionless surfaces, and where we can ceteris paribus our way out of complications?”

    I said dive in head first. A shallow pool is more dangerous for diving. I used the x6 times factor because that is the increase in crime rate. I could make it less extreme:

    a pool of 3 foot average depth or 5 foot average depth

    which one would you rather dive into?

    Could I design a pool that would trick your eye so that you could not tell which is deeper? Yes. Although, I could easily say you must do it at night, etc.

    It seems you are loath to engage in using examples to explain the subject at hand. Odd.

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  422. Dude, Taleb did not invent the Ludic fallacy. It was well known by other names. It is often called a reification or the fallacy of misplaced concreteness. It has been known for 100s of years.

    I always thought that reification applied to abstract nouns (for example “Information wants to be free”, “Science tells us that empiricism is the best method”). But never mind that. Taleb’s annoying anyway, hanging out Umberto Eco and all that.

    Is it logical to secretly fear a black person at your work because you ignore the information you have about them? No. I’ve never made that point. You are imagining that my argument is that one has all this knowledge that we often do not have

    Fear enough. My point is that we are rarely in a situation where where wee are without some sort of information. In cases where we lack information we fall back on heuristics, like stereotypes, not probabilities

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  423. Since When Are Conditional Probabilities Our Best Decision Making Strategies? At A Casino, Maybe,

    Hey serb, can you come up with a mathematical equation for the slots?

    You talk of the probability of being criminally accosted by blacks. I see you have never been to a trailer park or a Bingo parlour. Perhaps you can tell us the probability of getting attacked by an old lady when they call the number she has been waiting to get the jackpot, but you get it instead! I’ve seen it numerous times!

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  424. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reification_(fallacy)

    Ok, I’ll stop with this. We all have more important things to do. My point is embarrassingly modest given the amount of time I’ve spent on it today. My whole point was that if we know that skin color has some correlation with factors that affect risks in a country, then if all we have to go by in a certain situation is that, then we should take it into account if we are trying to somewhat predict the “flip of a coin”.

    If we were to fit some perfect statistical model to crime rate and included all the real drivers (home life, economic status, level of police scrutiny, etc) then race would disappear from the model, it would not be significant because it plays no role other than being somewhat correlated with those real drivers. That being black in America still means you likely went to a worse school (along with other real results of historic oppression) is the fault of the horrible history of racial treatment in this country.

    I know it sounds like I am a racist that is trying to decry racism. For that I apologize. My insistence upon a mathematical point has driven me far afield. My reasoning is meant to elucidate situations such as why someone who tries not to be racist would be less comfortable driving through a predominantly black neighborhood, if they knew nothing else about the area. It has nothing to do with melanin concentration affecting behavior directly, it is simply that it is correlated with crime levels.

    I have all sorts of other heuristics as well. In a previous job, I had to drive around Appalachia to survey wildlife populations. In isolated (all white communities usually) that were very poor, I had many strange incidences. People distrusted outsiders there and acted more erratically. I was threatened several times just for being stopped on the side of a public road. There were plenty of nice people in those communities, but I was still more wary in them.

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  425. “Since When Are Conditional Probabilities Our Best Decision Making Strategies? At A Casino, Maybe,

    Hey serb, can you come up with a mathematical equation for the slots?”

    Accurate conditional probabilities are usually inaccessible to us, hence the rules of thumb that satanforce mentioned. I actually do think in terms of my subjective probability judgments constantly in life. I am always updating them and trying to form better mental models. I do feel that the ideals espoused in decision theory on how to get the best average outcome are unimpeachable, they just are usually not calculable. But I’m a bit different than most people in this.

    As far as the slots, there are odds for each outcome and supposedly the pay out per machine is regulated. I don’t trust games that require no skill, because the odds are set so that it is always a loss in the long run. However, if you are a great poker player, gambler on sports, or a card counter; you can shift your odds so that it is rational to play. Playing slots, roulette, keno, etc is about as rational in terms of money making as investing your life savings in lottery tickets. It can be fun though to play slots, so a little bit is fun. You never see any professional slots players though, while there are millionaires off of poker.

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  426. From the article

    Just to compare, the number of Americans struck by lightning every year: 360.

    A white person is 6.5 times more likely to be killed by another white. Even if this was achieved by whites avoiding blacks, then whites are 6.5 times more afraid of blacks than they should be.

    White fear is not based on fact. It is based on stereotypes and on the fear that blacks want revenge, a fear as old as slave days.

    Does your use of conditional probability still apply here?

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  427. “I see you have never been to a trailer park”

    Oh yes I have.

    I’d rather avoid them. Poor and disenfranchised people, no matter the race, are an increased risk to my safety on average, despite most of them being kind and harmless. If I can stay on the interstate instead of taking a short cut through a trailer park, then I’m all for it. Besides the meth heads, one thing in trailer parks I’m worried about is that everyone has a huge dog that they feel should be left to run around or on a thin chain in the yard.

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  428. serb,

    It sounds like you are anxious around people to say the least. Maybe the problem isn’t them and what you think they’ll do to you. Maybe the problem is you for having so many fears against blacks and poor people.

    Your attempt to justify it with stats and numbers are futile as well as faltering. Numbers don’t tell you what you need to know about a group of people because numbers can be fixed or made up.

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  429. I am not immobilized by fear of others. Am I wary (call it fear or whatever) of strangers compared to people I know well and trust? Of course. You aren’t a bit anxious to live in a world surrounded by people you know rather little about with some of those people randomly hurting people?

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  430. “Does your use of conditional probability still apply here?”

    I do not buy that races prefer to prey on each other. Evolutionary it would make more sense to prey on people outside your immediate surroundings. I think it is mostly whom you are around. It need not have anything to do with avoidance. Thieves often prey on the people in their neighborhoods, etc.

    I make no distinctions between how wary I would be of someone who would kill a black person versus someone who would kill a white person. To me they are cut from the same horrible cloth.

    “Even if this was achieved by whites avoiding blacks, then whites are 6.5 times more afraid of blacks than they should be.”

    If the higher rates of within race homicides have to do with avoidance or whom you are near, then it strengthens the idea of lumping all murderers together whether they kill a white or a black person.

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  431. “Maybe the problem is you for having so many fears against blacks and poor people.”

    Am I fearful enough of black or poor people to qualify as a full blown fear? No. Let’s stick to just poor people and speak of relative caution levels.

    In regards to my personal safety, am I more wary toward poor people or rich people? Of course, I am more wary around poor people. Poor people commit more violent crimes.

    Interesting paper:

    http://mtbi.asu.edu/downloads/Document8.pdf

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  432. If you think all numbers related to controversial issues are made up, then that is a rather paralyzing position.

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  433. serb,

    If all you think it takes is mere stats, numbers and rates to help shock you into a semi-phobia of poor people, something tells me you haven’t been around a lot of poor people and that you don’t want to. Again, maybe it’s you with the problem with them as opposed to them having the problem with people like you.

    I’m just saying.

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  434. Poor people being statistically more likely to commit crimes has nothing to do with my anecdotal experiences with them or my friendships with them. There is a reliable relationship between income and violent crime. Of course, this is mere correlation. I can’t believe this would controversial. Again, you’d like to cast any notice of a relationship between these two things as hysteria. It isn’t necessarily.

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  435. Interesting study:

    http://works.bepress.com/psheaton/8/

    Go to the website and hit the download button. His methodology is very novel and ingenious. He looked at crimes where it was reported that a black and white person were co-criminals (they were a team). He found that blacks were 3% more likely to be caught and arrested.

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  436. I do not buy that races prefer to prey on each other.

    I see you aren’t letting things like “statistics” interfere with ypur beliefs.

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  437. I might prefer jello but will eat yogurt if that is all that is in my fridge. I don’t think black murderers think “I prefer to kill black people” it is simply who they are closest to.

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  438. serb,

    You said, “Go to the website and hit the download button. His methodology is very novel and ingenious. He looked at crimes where it was reported that a black and white person were co-criminals (they were a team). He found that blacks were 3% more likely to be caught and arrested.”

    Why do you think that is? Is it because blacks are too dumb to get away or is because there is more police presence in those areas because they believe the same way you do in regards to black people and crime?

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  439. I think that a 3% difference is so small it could be easily explained by chance alone.

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  440. It is the difference between 100 whites getting caught and 103 blacks. A very small difference.

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  441. Why do you think that is? Is it because blacks are too dumb to get away or is because there is more police presence in those areas because they believe the same way you do in regards to black people and crime?

    That was a bit unfair, don’t you think Brothawolf?

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  442. Mmmm…I suppose.

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  443. Wolf, you shot yourself in the foot there overreacting to my posting of a 3% difference. All is fair though when you are mad and know you are right, I suppose.

    http://www.city-journal.org/2010/eon0514hm.html

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  444. on Thu 21 Jun 2012 at 22:39:30 duckduckgoofs

    satanforce

    I see you aren’t letting things like “statistics” interfere with ypur beliefs.

    Where was that condemnation when so many others on this blog rejected statistics because it interfered with their beliefs?

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  445. As to whether black people “prefer” to prey on other black people in america.
    I think statistically they actually have a higher tendency to commit crimes on people of other races if the option is available as compared to other races/ethnicities/whatever……

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  446. The blog post states that white people that fear blacks are racist. What about black people that fear blacks more than white people? Are they racist as well?

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  447. Surfie/Serb is banned for using sock puppets.

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  448. A good example of how whites throw logic out the window when racist fears take over:

    https://abagond.wordpress.com/2010/05/19/the-japanese-american-internment/

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  449. Funny when I hear all these B.S. statistics being thrown around. How do these statistics effect me? They really don’t! What effects me is what I see, feel, taste, smell, hear, ect.
    I can tell you my experience with Blacks has been absolutely horrifying, shocking, discusting, senseless, violent, cruel and above all, un-human!
    As a youth I used drugs. I’m a recovering drug addict/alcoholic. One day I was searching for some marajuana and was picked up by a black individual whom was taking me to his house to get the weed I craved. To make a long story short, I was raped by this gentleman. Although I probably deserved it because I was looking for drugs. That’s a bad joke!
    This was the begining of my interactions with black america. Being a drug addict I was in and out of jails. The black on white attrocieties I wittnessed in those places from 1989 to 2003 where shocking to put it mildly. I saw a man get his eyeball stompped out of his face because he wouldn’t give a black man his food! It wasn’t just one black man jumping up and down on this guy, they joined in like savages and took delight. These violent acts went on weekly! Black on white.
    I can go on and on and on, but to summarize, my reality dictates a whole different story than some statistics that have no bearing on my reality.
    I live in a predominantly black area. Now I can hear many saying, just because one or eight apples are bad, doesn’t mean they all are. I try to believe that, but so many times I am shown, actually they are. I have gone out of my way to say hello to black people and help if it’s needed. More often than not I’m greeted with cold, hatefilled, stares and silence.I’m sick of it and cannot believe this world is turning into this. I fear for my beautiful daughters future!!!
    I do not blame all blacks for this. No ,I do not! I blame my own race just as much, and if you don’t know why, then you haven’t been paying attention in the last 40 + years!
    Look at any country that has a black’s living along side other races and you will find the statistics to be very similar to Americas, at least ratio wise. I know what that tells me and I’m sick of pretending there is no elephant in this increasingly small room!

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  450. @ Russell88088

    88, eh? Any time I see that “88” sh*t I know that it’s no coincidence.

    Besides, all you have to do is reverse everything you’ve said and apply it to Whites and that’s exactly how many people of color feel about you.

    Now, let’s find some hypocrisy, shall we? Tee hee!

    Funny when I hear all these B.S. statistics being thrown around. How do these statistics effect me? They really don’t!

    AND THIS:

    Look at any country that has a black’s living along side other races and you will find the statistics to be very similar to Americas, at least ratio wise. I know what that tells me and I’m sick of pretending there is no elephant in this increasingly small room!

    Breakdown! Shakedown! You’re busted!!

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  451. @Russell88088
    Your faux experiences pale in comparison to the experiences of many blacks at the hand of white oppressors worldwide.

    Enough of this BS of how blacks are so violent, when it is whites who have killed, raped and oppressed far more people than any other race in the history of humanity, and you know it.

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  452. @resjan

    That is also a statement that requires evidence to back it up.

    But on a personal note, as a White Person I have never felt I was more in danger from black people than from any other sort of people. In all of my honest personal experiences I would be hard pressed to point out any real behavioral difference, any negative trait I’ve ever observed in a black person has been matched in a white person and the same goes for positive traits.

    However despite never having a personal observation of my own to corroborate any racist belief I will admit that some small bit of that is present. Not in the form of any real fear of black people but more fear of greater social awkwardness due to certain cultural differences, awkwardness that has never really come up in my experience.

    But if I were to trace the origin of any racist behavior in me I would say my first racist thoughts originated when I learned the word “Nigger”.

    I didn’t learn it in any of the contexts of people complaining about black people or anything like that but I did learn it in the context that using the word “Nigger” would somehow magically anger every black person within twenty miles and get you beaten up.

    I don’t really see what the point of introducing someone to a word is if you’re only going to introduce it as a word to never use, as it seems if you didn’t ever want anyone to use it you simply wouldn’t teach them it.

    Anyhow I’ve always believed that the idea that there was this one word that could magically turn seemingly polite and normal people into the sort who would beat you up was pretty ridiculous. I’ve actually thought about testing it a time or two, what really would happen if I shouted it in a predominantly black neighborhood?

    As a child I was also told it was rude to remark that someone was a black person, something I thought was odd since I had initially come to the conclusion that skin color was a lot like hair or eye color due to the fact that I was exposed to what seemed to me to be a rather clear gradient of different skin colors. Really my whole education on race seems to have taken the form of being told what is rude to point out or say about someone of another race. It sounds stupid doesn’t it?

    But still it left its mark and I never really had the courage to actually try and see if Black people were as easily offended into anger as I had been told. I still get a very slight and very stupid feeling around black people that I might somehow offend them into some sort of rage despite that never happening in my experience and knowing that the whole idea is just stupid.

    I guess part of me believes these easily enraged black people have to exist out there somewhere. And maybe they do, but if they exist they would have to be abnormal. I’ve just come to the opinion that if these people do exist I’m unlikely to ever run into them or do anything particularly offensive in my day to day life.

    I’m not sure if this will provide any insight on the typical white mindset since everyone tends to have a different upbringing and I’m not sure mine was “Typical white”. However I do believe the perception that people of other races might be easily offended and enraged might be a significant portion of racist behavior.

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  453. It is true that you are more likely to be killed by someone you know than by a stranger. This situation throws a confounding effect into any discussion of whether it is rational to be more wary of one race or another because people (through family and/or friends) typically have more acquaintances of their own skin color than what you would expect from a totally random sample. For instance, 12.3% of all US citizens were black in 2000, yet most black people have greater than 12.3% of their family/friends being black.

    It is important to keep our probability statements straight. Let’s say a random person of which I know nothing about except skin color approaches me. If I were judging my risk of being killed by them, then I would like to know the probability of them killing me (a white guy) given what I know of them so far (the stranger’s skin color). It so happens there is data broken down by race related to homicides where the victim did not know the perpetrator. That data is found here.

    http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/homicide/tables/ovrelracetab.cfm#numberss

    Because we have census data for 2000 as well, let’s take the year 2000 stats from the link above from the table entitled.

    Stranger Homicides by Racial Composition of Victims and Offenders

    In 2000, there were 783 white on white homicides and 330 black on white homicides. If we do not control for population size or look at the wrong probability measure (the one not used when assessing relative risks), then these numbers would seem to make the case that the original blogger here put forward, that whites should fear whites more than blacks.

    But let’s go here and get some 2000 census data. In 2000 there were 211,460,626 whites in the US and 34,658,190 blacks.

    Obviously, not all of those millions from either population are a potential danger (I don’t fear toddlers or 90 year old ladies for instance), but if the demographic profiles by age and sex are similar for whites and blacks then you are merely multiplying each population by a scalar. This scalar will cancel out in what I do next mathematically, and so will have no influence when I make my final relative risk calculation.

    If I met 1 of the 200 and some million whites, then roughly the probability of one killing me is

    783/211,460,626 which is a small number 3.70282 * 10^-06

    To be even more accurate, since the data deals with whites that are strangers to me, I would have to subtract the number of white people I know from the denominator. But I know such a small fraction of that large number, that the probability will not change much. In the next calculation, I would need to do the same thing for blacks I know, but again when dealing with such large numbers in the denominator, the effect is miniscule.

    If I meet 1 of the 30 some million blacks, then the same probability as just calculated is now

    330/34,658,190 which is a small probability again, but larger than the first it is

    9.52156 *10^-06

    If i divide this number by the first, the result is 2.57. As a result, it is roughly true that a random black person that a random white person meet as a stranger is 2.57 times more likely to kill that random white person than is a similarly random white person.

    As stated previously, if you look at the numbers that do not separate out strangers, then the analysis becomes impossible as you are dealing with the overwhelming effect of whom one selects to be associate with.

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  454. To make my point about intra-race demographics not having a large influence, we could assume that only 50% of any race could potentially kill someone. Let’s say the other 50% are female toddlers and older people. Whatever, it doesn’t matter the number I choose here, so long as it is the same among races.

    (330/(34,658,190*0.5))/(783/(211,460,626*0.5) is still roughly 2.57

    the values I added cancel as they are in the numerator and denominator of the primary division here.

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  455. If we do the same as I just did, but only use acquaintance murders

    data at same link as before in table titled

    Percent of All Acquaintance Homicides by Racial Composition of Victims and Offenders

    (2,165 white on white and 310 black on white murders in 2000)

    then the ratio goes from 2.57 to 0.874. Less than 1. This isn’t surprising given the racial clustering of communities and culture that still persists in the US.

    If we look at homicide victims normalized by population

    http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/homicide/tables/vracetab.cfm

    as well as homicide offenders normed

    http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/homicide/tables/oracetab.cfm

    then blacks per capita are several times more likely to both be murdered and to murder.

    It is a horrible thing and is not made better by blogs like yours that would like to be politically correct because the reality is just so depressing.

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  456. @ fortran

    You have taken the DOJ numbers, as many of us here have, and have deducted that in any case, the chances of being murdered by a random Black person are rather low for Whites. But as for the fact that the Black murder rate is higher than that among Whites, what do you make of this?

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  457. @ fortran

    9.52156 *10^-06 is so low that, if anything, it makes my point that white fear of blacks is irrational and therefore racist.

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  458. I agree that it is irrational to be afraid of murder from a random person because of their skin color because the risk of murder is rather low. All out fear of a group of people may be irrational, but calculating that you are slightly less safe before an unknown person of that group vs. one from another group is not necessarily irrational or showing some crippling fear.

    However, one point of your original blog entry was that if anything, a random white person should be more afraid of another white person. In my opinion, the numbers simply don’t show that if you use the “stranger” data that effectively controls for association probabilities and also normalize by population sizes.

    Using the FBI stats, you were calculating something similar to “given that I am white and have been murdered, what is the chance that a white person did it?” That isn’t the proper probability to look at to parse why people may make the choices they do in an effort to minimize risk. The probability to look at if deciding between situations X and Y is something more similar to “what is the probability of bad thing Z happening to me if I am in situation X vs. in situation Y?” You effectively looked at “bad thing Z just happened, what was the chance I was in situation X?”.

    For a white person, the risk of homicide from an unknown black person is around 2.57 times greater than the risk from an unknown white person. The risk is still rather low, but the relative risk shown by the ratio seems rather large.

    We are all much more likely to be the victim of a nonfatal violent crime than to be a homicide victim. I have no idea if the numbers for that are available for strangers vs acquaintances and with the breakdown by race in terms of victim/perp.

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  459. @King

    ” But as for the fact that the Black murder rate is higher than that among Whites, what do you make of this?”

    I’m not sure if you are asking about greater rate of victimhood or creating a victim. in either case, it is awful and I would like to change it by making everyone safer. I chalk it up to black people being more likely to be born into relative poverty and in an area with higher crime rates, such as in large cities. These things obviously have some inertia and can perpetuate themselves.

    Skin color obviously isn’t among the set of proximate causes for committing murder. It might be among the set of proximate causes for being murdered though, if that skin color is somehow targeted.

    It’s a complex subject.

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  460. If I conditioned my little math model on income level and location, then the seeming difference in relative risk could very well disappear. Knowing that, this is why I was very careful to state that nothing was known of the person except skin color and that they are randomly selected. That is the only way any statement can be made given the nature of the data I’ve seen, you must keep everything else the same and only change one thing. This goes for the blogger’s original numbers breakdown as well.

    Now, removing those blinders that were necessary for some math analysis, it is highly probable that if you are in the middle of a corn field in Iowa that the relative risk difference disappears, pointing that it is likely more to do with whom you are likely to interact with when in a place with high crime for other reasons.

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  461. @ fortran

    I tend to agree with your analysis, but when you say poverty, I think you have to understand that it’s not just poverty, but poverty with “special circumstances.” After all, there are a lot of places in the world where people don’t have much money, and they’re not all murdering each other. In the Black American culture it’s been a mix of ingrained hopelessness and the narcotics business. Most of the ‘random’ violence is drug related. And although Blacks seem to get sucked into it on the lower end, the real architects and main beneficiaries of the violence are all non-Blacks.

    http://listverse.com/2012/06/05/top-15-crime-bosses-and-drug-lords-in-2012/

    BTW, are you a programmer?

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  462. In my experience violent crime has less to do with race or poverty and more to do with the drug trade and (for women) domestic violence. The most violent and most quiet places I have ever lived were BOTH black middle-class. One had an out-of-control drug trade that the police did little about, the other did not.

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  463. @ Fortran

    I said nothing about random white people and random black people. You are bringing that in. For someone truly concerned about the threat of murder, it is more important to know where it is mainly coming from, not the odd cases.

    You are doing what I said in the post:

    “Whites were not afraid of crime: they were afraid of black people!

    You see this in the way they twist crime statistics. Even when you untwist them, they quickly find some other way to twist them back. Which shows their fears were never based on the numbers to begin with – they just use those numbers as a fig leaf to cover their racism.”

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  464. “BTW, are you a programmer?”

    I had to learn a few languages for various things. My job is not primarily to write code though. I came to it relatively late, and would likely have picked that as a main career had I known at a young age that I enjoyed it and was pretty good at it. Fortran was the first language I learned, and still the one I turn to when I need to do something relatively simple that requires fast code. So, it is a bit of a favorite. Thanks for asking.

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  465. @abagond

    You are right. You weren’t specific about violence from strangers versus violence from people you know. However, I think it is important to make the distinction. The reason I spoke about random was to imply a stranger and also the idea of a random selection within a defined set is important if probability numbers are to make sense, so that is why I used it. Given that I was very specific about what numbers I used, how I used them, and why and what the result may entail, I can’t see how I can reasonably be thought to twist the numbers.

    I was bleedingly specific.

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  466. “For someone truly concerned about the threat of murder, it is more important to know where it is mainly coming from, not the odd cases.”

    I agree. If you are most likely to be killed by someone you know, on average, then it behooves you to choose the people you are acquainted with rather carefully. That is one piece to the puzzle, and obviously a large one.

    Should we not consider acts of random violence as a separate set and then apply something like your own mathematical reasoning to it? If not, I’d ask why this is.

    I’ll stop, except maybe answering a direct question if one is asked. This is a sensitive subject, and I am only likely to make people angry.

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  467. Why do people think that science is a good way to mask their prejudices? If I had a dime for every programmer, doctor, anthropoligist, etc. who thought they could use logic to excuse their ingrained hatred of their fellow human beings, I would be Bill Gates. The sad, depressing reality is not that crime statistics show pathology in certain groups but that people cling to these as if they were Gospel. Unfortunately we live in a world where being able to parse numbers creatively is valued more than being able to mend human relationships.

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  468. Where did I in anyway express hatred? I feel that my posts have been very evenhanded and dispassionate.

    The original blog post cites some numbers, when I look at similar numbers in a different way, then I am hating? No, I’m simply stating that the numbers may not support a specific claim. My analysis was not creative at all. I saw that these numbers were available, and I knew exactly how to analyze them to get at a specific question. I then did this, without knowing what the result would be. I then reported them. This is not creative data analysis looking for a foregone conclusion whatsoever. It is actually the polar opposite of that. I did not come up with some CRAZY way to look at this. I simply looked at stranger homicide and normalized by population.

    What would you have said if the numbers would’ve gone a different way?

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  469. Agabond,
    You really should do more posts on your favorite Bible passages. I have really enjoyed the one you have one so far on Corinthians. It is nice to approach something with an open heart and see the truth rather than delude yourself into thinking you are seeing the truth.

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  470. I think that blacks are just as capable of being racist as whites (and other nationalities are). First you have to consider each case of “fear” and determine if it truly is fear. Then the basis for the fear has to be taken into account. Just as I fear horses after almost losing my life to one when I was 12, there are some justifiable reasons for fear…even if they are irrational in our eyes.

    Saying that all whites who fear blacks are racists is in and of itself a racist statement because you’re affixing a label to a people (it doesn’t matter what qualifier you use, the label is still be attached) and you’re denying any legitimacy for any form of fear that is directed towards the black populace regardless of it’s foundation.

    We all know that just as there are bona fide, card toting racists in this country/world, there are neighborhoods that posses within it’s borders an intimidation element that makes those neighborhoods daunting to those who hale from the outside. Communities have subcultures that may be the norm to those within, but present themselves as threatening to those on the outside. I am a black woman but I still feel my defenses going up when I drive through certain neighborhoods at night (it’s a necessity of my job) and being one who has been targeted by the intimidating element for simply walking into a gas station, I don’t fault anyone for sharing my trepidation. I’m sorry, but if I drive through a neighborhood that has store fronts with bars on the windows and gas stations with window bars, slide out transaction trays and doors that lock the employee in and the public out, that screams to me that there is something to be feared…hell…even the owners of the businesses are acknowledging that fact. I’m not going to fault a person (like me) who lives in a neighborhood where the bars and robbery/theft deterents aren’t deemed necessary for being wary when faced with said deterrents.

    Hollywood did a lot to feed the stereotype of angry, violent, vengeful, petulant black people and many non-blacks have only had that as their education. I chose to educate those who are willing to learn and not to judge a book by it’s cover. We’re complaining about being judged by our covers, but from where I’m sitting it looks like we’re sitting in our own seats of judgment as well.

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  471. Haha I see you removed my post agabond! I guess you can’t stand it when another black guy doesn’t agree with your views. lol

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  472. @ Luka

    I do not even remember you. But my spam filter does not like you, which makes me suspect you are a past troll.

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  473. To MaMu1977

    I lived in North Dakota for 3 years. After Year No. 1, I stopped visiting night clubs and bars in the local town due to intoxicated driving and various types of violence (domestic, drunken, long-simmering, etc.). I’m not even joking, the cops wouldn’t even bother to end hostilities if weapons weren’t involved in the altercation.

    No surprise.. and in some sense it makes perfect sense doesn’t it..? File under voluntary/stupidity violence.. almost like a fight club but public. I avoid drinking establishments where large amounts of alcohol are consumed for this reasons you outlined above. Young White males and heavy drinking are something I avoid.

    I worked with a guy who was arrested and found guilty of DUI on *6* separate occasions prior to his 21st birthday

    I am very much against drunk driving but organizations such as MADD have reduced fatalities and strengthened laws. By the way speaking of statistics, North Dakota is recorded as having the highest alcohol fatalities per capita in the nation.. so the stats do catch that part of North Dakota’s negligent enforcement attitude.

    Plenty of evidence over the years that urban areas also under report crime statistics.. hell in my old burg Oakland the police have a large list of crimes where they won’t show up to take a report. You are supposed to file online. I reported 3 crimes online and never received any follow up. If a house is broken into in Oakland and the cops never take a report, did it happen in their eyes..?

    It’s one thing to knowingly place yourself at risk by walking into a bar notorious for brawls. It’s quite another to have your home invaded, to be attacked as you walk home from work, in the cab you drive, in a home depot parking lot in the middle of the day, with your friends in a van waiting for a drive through window, on your front lawn, on your front steps, waiting for your wife in the parking lot of a Target, or on your front porch one Spring evening with your wife. All of the above happened to friends, tenants, or acquaintances of mine and all of the perps were younger black males. 13 victims (6 of whom were not White FWIW) in 10 years with only one of perps caught and prosecuted.

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  474. I am from Baltimore City Maryland and the blacks commit thousands /year of armed robberies, hundreds of murders along with the majority of the rest of the crime. They are also rude to people and love mouthing off to people starting trouble. I have met very ,very few blacks that can be trusted. They are rude, mindless assholes who claim minority status but are 67% of the population. Baltimore is a dangerous city because of the blacks and get the majority of the city jobs on reverse discrimination. Blacks also love to steal from whites.

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  475. I am from Baltimore City Maryland and the whites commit thousands /year of armed robberies, hundreds of murders along with the majority of the rest of the crime. They are also rude to people and love mouthing off to people starting trouble. I have met very ,very few whites that can be trusted. They are rude, mindless assholes who claim minority status but are 67% of the population. Baltimore is a dangerous city because of the blacks and get the majority of the city jobs on discrimination. Whites also love to steal from Natives and blacks.

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  476. I am from Baltimore City Maryland and the blacks commit thousands /year of armed robberies, hundreds of murders along with the majority of the rest of the crime.

    Why don’t you move?

    Baltimore is a dangerous city because of the blacks and get the majority of the city jobs on reverse discrimination.

    Well at least they are working!

    Blacks also love to steal from whites.

    Everyone needs a hobby clown.

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  477. @Herneith
    It is no use for these people using statistics to support their biased and racist opinions. Honestly I get sick of racist Whites coming on our blogs and trying to stir up trouble. Why are they so obsessed with us yet they hate us?

    Yes Whites who fear Blacks are racist because they are going by stereotypes about Blacks being more violent, lazy etc.

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  478. Fear is ignorance. And if certain whites are claiming to be so afraid of black people it is because of ignorance perpetuated by racist stereotypes. They are the ignorant ones.

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  479. People fear violent crime and black people are the people who are committing most of the violent crimes. Even now we have the George Zimmerman verdict coming soon and cops have to go door to door trying to calm black people down because black people are threatening riots, violence, murder, and rape of white people, not to mention destruction of property. Black people are just too violent.

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  480. I’m part Caucasian and part Hispanic and I really don’t feel comfortable around black people because they’re too violent. They’re creepy. The statistics actually prove it too. White people avoid black people like the plague because black people are violent and uncivilized.

    And it is not white people who are ignorant; rather it is the black people who are in denial. Black people need to accept the truth that they are too violent instead of continuing to lie about it. Black people have no chance of becoming better people until they first admit to their shortcomings. I will tell you what black people’s biggest shortcoming is – black people are too violent. You need to know this, and I find it very unattractive too. I find it unattractive that black people are too violent and I find it unattractive that they lie about it. I would find it more attractive if they admitted to it and made an honest effort to start trying to become more peaceful. I’m part Caucasian and I’m also part Hispanic. Mostly I’m Hispanic. I have seen discrimination against Hispanics by whites but at least i can give whites credit for trying to become better people, but I can not give black people credit for trying to become better people since black people are not trying to reduce the violence among themselves. You see white people setting up laws to try to force themselves to share and give some form of equality to minorities. Is it enough? No but at least they are trying. Black people don’t even try. Black people are too violent, they lie about it, they stay too violent, they are not improving, and they are not trying to improve.

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  481. @ John

    When were you beaten up by a Black guy?

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  482. @John:

    We get it, black people are violent and lie about it. Next!

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  483. Herneith,I have never been beaten up by a black guy, but this whole George Zimmerman thing has me doing internet searches about black violence and I’m reading about a lot of attacks on white people by black mobs. I’m getting annoyed. I’m sick of seeing utube video of some white guy minding his own business, just trying to live his life, and numerous black people (men and women) attacking him. Black people need to tone down the violence. It’s very unattractive. I think black people are the least physically attractive people on the planet because they are the most violent people on the planet. I would never date a black woman and it isn’t because her skin is darker than mine; it’s because she is part of the violent black community. Violence us ugly.
    Violent people are ugly people. Yuch!!!!!

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  484. I think white people who take a chance and date black people are foolish and stupid. Even if the lone black person acts more civilized and reasonable than the violent black people it doesn’t matter because that lone peaceful black person has relatives and friends that he/she will be bringing into your life if you are white and stupid/foolish enough to date the black person. I would say to white people that the peaceful black person will bring ugly violent black people into your life and you could be harmed, raped, or murdered by one of the friends or relatives or homies of the peaceful black person that you take a chance on. And also that supposedly peaceful black person that you want to take a chance on, well once he/she gets you into his/her life then truth might come out differently and you could find out that he/she is not really peaceful at all. And if you try to break it off with the person he/she could become violent against you.

    I don’t trust black people because the statistics prove that they are the most violent race. They’re taking machetes to white people in South Africa. They’ve set people afire and burnt them to death here in America and in South Africa. And the stories you read about have the perpetrators taunting their suffering victims and laughing about the death and destruction they cause. They’re ugly people.

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  485. Adeen said, “It is no use for these people using statistics to support their biased and racist opinions. Honestly I get sick of racist Whites coming on our blogs and trying to stir up trouble. Why are they so obsessed with us yet they hate us?

    Yes Whites who fear Blacks are racist because they are going by stereotypes about Blacks being more violent, lazy etc”

    What a bunch of nonsense and rationalizing you have going on there Adeen. I have concerns about blacks and I am NOT racist. My concerns are reasonable and my concerns are based on fact. Check this out:

    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2871054/posts

    My concern about black violence is not based on racism; rather it’s based on statistics. Also, I live in Portland Oregon and there have been black flash mobs here so the racial attacks have been on local TV and utube, and I have seen the local flash mob attacks. I do not trust black people, the stats show that they’re too violent, and the stats show that they are dangerous. I steer clear of them, I don’t want them in my life, and I secure two handguns.

    I’m sorry and I wish things were different but black people are acting like animals…dangerous animals and then to call me racist because of the bad behavior by black people is just more of black people’s denial. I’ll say it again, black people have to step up and admit that they are too violent and make an honest effort to overcome that ugliness if they want me to feel differently about them.

    And I don’t want blacks to just stop the violence against white people. I want blacks to stop their ugly violence against other black people as well. Black people are too violent. Period. Black people need to own up to this and start working to change it…to overcome it. I feel like black people are not even trying to improve this sad situation. Black people are too busy screaming racism against the white man/woman who recognizes that black people are too violent even though black people would be much better served if they were instead busy trying to get their violent brethren to tone down the violence…tone down the ugliness. It’s disgusting.

    I realize that not all blacks are violent but since I don’t know which ones are and which ones are not I can’t trust any of them. Did you see the video of the black college students who went to Virginia Beach and got violent? They weren’t ghetto blacks…they were college students for Christ’s sake. These were the middle-class black people’s kids.

    Black people are not safe.I want them away from me. I voted for Barack Obama but I am starting to think that it would be best not to vote for anymore black leaders because black leaders may be reluctant to enact legislation that will force blacks to reduce their disgusting violence and racial hatred. In other words, I now have concerns that a black president will downplay black violence so he doesn’t have to punish his own people. I do not think a black president will do what is necessary to stop black violence.

    As a left-winger I hate to say it but I’m starting to think that it may take violence against blacks to get blacks to stop the violence. I want to hire a lot more police and bring the national guard in to stop black violence. And I want the cops and national guard to use serious physical force on offender blacks so that the offending blacks feel pain because pain is the one thing that will get blacks to stop creating trouble. I also want to start looking at the issue of deportations of black people. Black people are ruining this country…turning once beloved cities into war zones.

    I want the authorities to solve this problem. Next election I’m thinking about voting republican for the first time in my 48 years on this planet, I am sick of black surliness, intimidation, and violence.

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  486. black people = violence, intimidation, surliness, rudeness, meanness, property destruction, mayhem, death, and rape, Black people wreck stuff and make areas look ugly and dangerous. I remember when I went to see Niagra Falls and the city bus took me through Buffalo on my way to Niagra Falls. Black people have turned Buffalo into a garbage pile as far as I’m concerned. You’ve heard about how some people “beautify” something but you never hear about black people “beautifying” anything. Black people UGLIFY everything they touch. Black people UGLIFY whole cities and they will uglify the entire country if we do not put a stop to their ugliness. There is no city in America where black people have taken over and the city remains appealing to the eye. They cheapen and uglify everything.

    Like


  487. And one more thing Adeen, you ask why white people come to “our site” to try to “stir up trouble.”

    You don’t get it. I’m trying to reach you and other black people. The violence is making you all ugly. I want you to know how I feel about your violence. I’m hoping that there is a shred of decency in you and a shred of decency in at least some other black people as well. I’m hoping this because the only chance black people have to overcome their violence is if there are some decent black people can get it through their heads that black people are too violent and then hopefully those black people can spread the word and perhaps we can learn to care for one another. It can never happen while black people are being so violent.

    Hey I know that what I;m trying to do is probably not going to work but at least I’m trying. I’m trying to reduce the violence among black people. You aren’t even trying. You don’t even care. You just want to talk lies that the white people who say black people are too violent are a bunch of racists when you should instead be asking what can be done to reduce the violence among black people.

    I’m not racist against black people at all but I do abhor violence. Violence is ugly, and violent people are ugly people. I do not want violence in my life and I’m sick of the violence in this country. Black people will either reduce their violence because it’s the right thing to do or else black people will reduce their violence because white people impose calm among black people by hiring more cops and bringing in the national guard for some head-cracking. It’s going to stop one way or another. And if we have to use the police stick and the national guard guns to stop black violence then what will people like me learn from that? Think about it Adeen. If the only way I can get black people to tone down the violence is to sick lots of violence-wielding police officers and lots of violence-wielding national guardsmen on black people then what I will learn from that is this: BLACK PEOPLE ARE UNREASONABLE AND THE ONLY WAY TO GET THEM TO TONE DOWN THE VIOLENCE IS TO DO SOME HEAD-CRACKING ON THEM.

    But if black people will tone down the violence on their own because black people decide that they want the violence to stop and they want a peaceful world, then people like me would learn a different lesson. We would learn that black people are people of good will, they can be reasoned with, and at heart they want to live in peace.

    I think that decent black people of good will should start pressing black leaders to focus on black violence as the number one priority. Yes, discrimination is a major threat but the same black people who are dishing out violence against white people are also torturing, raping, and killing black people so those violent black people may be a bigger threat than discrimination is. In any case your leaders can walk and chew bubble-gum at the same time so they can focus on black violence while also focusing on discrimination.

    If we have to impose peace upon you then there will be an uneasy calm after the head-cracking dust clears but if you tone down the violence because it’s the right thing to do then that is sort of thing that breeds respect and trust from whites. And then some white fear of blacks could dissipate.

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  488. I think that decent white people of good will should start pressing white leaders to focus on white racism as the number one priority… your leaders can walk and chew bubble-gum at the same time so they can focus on white racism while also focusing on the anger, dysfunctional behavior and internalized racism exhibited by the targets of white racism.

    Like


  489. I do press white leaders about discrimination. That’s why I’ve always voted democrat. That’s why I’ve defended blacks in virtually every racial discussion until recently. But the black violence is taking center stage and so now for the first time in my 40 something years on this planet I am in agreement with the people on the republican side of the aisle. I want black violence stopped and I’m ready to vote for painful authoritarian control of black trouble-makers.

    Again, you all can stop the violence because you’re reasonable people who want peace deep down in your hearts or you can stop the violence because white people imposed reason on you by way of police head-cracking of black people.

    If you get the violence under control because it’s the right thing to do then that’s grounds for respecting you but if you only stand down your violence because you get tired of your heads getting cracked then that is grounds for disrespect. The choice is yours. The violence is going to tone down. The only question is whether black people are going to step up and show that they’re responsible, reasonable, peaceful citizens or that they are violent thugs that understand nothing except a police night-stick upside the head.

    I’m asking black people to stop the violence. I’m telling black people that your violence is ugly and animal-like. I’m telling black people that you are going to stop the violence one way or the other. Your better off doing it my way because if you do it my way that makes it easier for me to convince other whites that black people are decent, moral, and reasonable people who want peace but also want justice/equality. I can’t convince anyone that black people are decent, moral, and reasonable people while black people are conducting so much violence. How can I convince other white people of that when I myself am starting to question it??? That’;s right. I’m starting to question whether or not black people are decent, moral, and reasonable people.

    It’s lighter-skinned people like me who were in those marches with black people that helped get black people some laws helping them against discrimination. It is enough? No. Black unemployment is still way too high for example. I want the burden of unemployment distributed equally among the races.

    There is a long way to go and I understand that. But that means that we need protests and we need the sympathy of the crowd. You’re starting to get bad PR. The same utube and twitter that shows you all where to show up for the riot and flash-mobbing is also showing more and more non-black people the scenes of the black violence. Black people are losing the sympathy of the crowd and black people are losing the sympathy of people like me – a FORMER supporter. I’m losing faith in black people’s decency because your violence is turning me off.

    Black people need to cool it with the violence. Black people should do marches and protests instead.

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  490. LOL

    John Ackerby is your typical white liberal. They expect you to do things their way, and if you don’t, they won’t give you their “charity”. Blacks should not have to clean up white people’s mess. If white people cared, which they don’t, they would be the ones doing marches and protests and fixing the mess they started.

    But of course, white liberals always expect you to be grateful. I mean, where would you be without them? *sarcasm*

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  491. On second thought, John Ackerby is not a white liberal. He’s just a troll. If anything, he’s an honorary white (white Hispanic). Not the first one I’ve seen. *shrugs*

    Like


  492. @Kiwi

    I agree. This John Ackerly is nothing more than a troll who wants attention. Not all Blacks are violent. I know this because I know I am not violent and I am Black.

    Trolls like him make me sick. Blacks aren’t a monolithic group

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  493. John Ackerby,

    This right here, “You don’t get it. I’m trying to reach you and other black people” is exactly why you are getting lashed out. Black people are NOT children that need the guidance of white people. I don’t need your kind of “teaching” because I’ve heard it before and do not agree.

    Why don’t YOU try and learn something from US for a change instead of telling us what to think according to you, or is that too hard to do?

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  494. @ Adeen

    I have known plenty of white people and black people. Only whites have ever been violent towards me. Blacks, never. So what should I make of this? I’m curious to see what this John figure has to say.

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  495. Of course I’m a white/Hispanic liberal and of course you yourself are moving me from one status to another because you first say I’m white liberal but then you say I’m a troll. You change me from one slot to another to fit your needs rather than put me where I actually am. I’m a white/Hispanic liberal male.

    That aside, I don’t expect you to be grateful for my past efforts to get you justice but even if I did expect you to be grateful what is wrong with that? And why shouldn’t you be grateful? Why shouldn’t you be grateful that there are whites who hear and feel black plight? Of course you should be grateful but I don’t care if you are or are not. I did not defend blacks in the past for you. I did it for me. I did it to defend my principles and my beliefs.

    Do you know what you are? You’re a whining trouble-making black person. You don’t like any white person and your whole agenda is to complain about white people be they liberal or conservative or whatever. You just don’t like white people. You’re a racist.

    And yes I do expect you to do things my way if you want my support. And by the way you are the same when you give your support. When you support someone you make sure that the person you are supporting meets some requirements first. If I went to your home and asked for help because some rednecks were chasing me I’m sure you would want to be 100% sure that I did not start the fight before you even considered helping me. Any of us with any sense put conditions on it for us to help another person. If people want my help then I’m totally reasonable and justified in making demands on those people in order for me to give them my help. If I am going to help someone then that person is going to be the good guy, not the bad guy. I’m not going to help bad people. My attitude is to let bad people receive some bad treatment because bad people deserve bad treatment.

    And blacks aren’t cleaning up white people’s mess. That’s not what’s happening. What’s really happening is that blacks are making a mess of white people’s beauty. St. Louis, Chicago, and Detroit (for example) used to be beautiful cities but blacks have UGLIFIED them and rendered them practical war zones. Black people aren’t cleaning up white messes, rather black people are taking over beautiful cities from the white people and when black people take them over the black people turn them into messes.

    And yea where would you be without people like me? Well, you would probably be being beaten with a police night stick without the white support from people like me who gave your cause mainstream appeal. You probably would not have the right to vote. There would probably be no EEO and no EEO laws or affirmative action. There would be virtually no equal justice laws or equal credit laws or equal housing laws, etc, etc, etc. You could not have gotten all that stuff alone. You needed the support from people like me and your violence is going to cost you the support of at least some of the people like me.

    Tone down the violence. I do not support it.

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  496. Hey Kiwi, if white people have attacked you then let’s lock them up. That is what the law is there for. Look if some guy hit you (white or black) there will be a bruise. Report it to the police. Let’s get him locked up. You are not a punching bag.

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  497. Hey Brothawolf I am allowed to tell you how I feel about black violence. You don’t have to listen to me and I understand that. Do whatever you want to do

    Keep in mind that blacks are always saying that white people won’t talk about black racial issues. So let it be noted somewhere that today, July 11, 2013, I tried to talk with some black people about racial issues and they basically told me to shut up and they aren’t interested in what I have to say. And let the record show that the black people told me this because they didn’t like what I was saying even though the statistics show that I’m factually correct (black people really are the perpetrators of most of the violence) and really all I was saying to the black people was an appeal to tone down the violence before they are forced to tone down the violence by way of night-sticks to the heads.

    Let it be known that black people do not really want to discuss race issues. They do not want to admit the truth about this most important short-coming of theirs – their frequency and level of violence. They do not even want to discuss their violence statistics. Any discussion a white man starts about black violence results in black accusations, denials, and demands that the white person stop talking about black violence.

    I’m out of here. But I want you to know that black violence is pushing this liberal democrat (who used to be a big supporter of black people) towards the republican party. And it’s not because black people have darker skin. It’s because black people are too violent, won’t tone down the violence, won’t even talk about toning down the violence, and only want to scream racism whenever the issue of black violence is brought up.

    Yes, I admit that there is still racism against black people. Yes I hate the racism against black people. Yes I think white people need to impose more laws on themselves to further force more equality for more black people. Yes I do think things have gotten better for black people but no I do not think things have gotten good enough for black people. Yes I want black people to have an equal share of the goodies of our nation, and yes I want white people to have an equal burden of the bad things in our country, such as unemployment. I am sick of the high unemployment rate among black people and the comparatively low unemployment rate among white people. I want black people to have equal access to the treasures of America and I want white people to be burdened with a proportionately equal share of the bad things in America such as poverty and unemployment.

    All that aside, I want to accomplish this peacefully and without hatred. Black people have made some progress although a lot more does need to be done. But black violence is an impediment to a better future because black violence is turning off the very people that black people need support from. I am sure turned off by violence and hatred. It makes me sick to my stomach.

    Think of how sickening it looks/sounds to hear some KKK racist talk. Well, it sounds the same degree of sickening to me when I hear the new black panthers talk about exterminating white people and it looks/sounds just as sickening to me when I see/her utube video of a flash-mob attacking white people somewhere in America.

    I’m getting very annoyed with black violence. I want it toned down.

    Enough said. Please stop the violence. It’s very unattractive. It’s making me not want to associate with black people.

    I’m out of here.You don’t want to talk. Fine. Goodbye.
    But please stop the violence.

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  498. @ abagond

    How did John Ackerby’s rant about black violence turn into a rant about “white beauty vs. black ugliness”, like something out of a cheap Nazi movie flick? Who wrote this, a 10 year old? I can’t believe I wasted my time.

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  499. Kiwi, the talk about how blacks have turned formerly beautiful white cites into ugly war zones came from me because your whining turned into some kind of rational and denial of the truth by saying that white people created the mess. The truth is that black people created the mess. Black people took over white cities and turned them into war zone garbage heaps. Here below is your post talking about how the white man should clean up his own mess but it wasn’t a mess until black people took control of it. These cities were cool-looking until black people took the reins and now black people have turned them into the ugly mess that they are. Anyway here’s your post:

    “Kiwi

    LOL

    John Ackerby is your typical white liberal. They expect you to do things their way, and if you don’t, they won’t give you their “charity”. Blacks should not have to clean up white people’s mess. If white people cared, which they don’t, they would be the ones doing marches and protests and fixing the mess they started.

    But of course, white liberals always expect you to be grateful. I mean, where would you be without them? *sarcasm*”

    And by the way now that blacks have taken control of South Africa it is fast going downhill too. Blacks need help and that is no big deal. I don’t mind helping as long as blacks are the good guys, but since blacks are turning into a bunch of dangerous bad guys you are losing my support. More liberals are going to walk out on black people and black people are going to be in a lot of trouble. Again, I urge all black people to start accepting responsibility for the violence taking place in the black community and to start pressing black leaders to tone down the black violence. Take some responsibility.

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  500. Herneith,I have never been beaten up by a black guy, but this whole George Zimmerman thing has me doing internet searches about black violence and I’m reading about a lot of attacks on white people by black mobs.

    John, in case you haven’t noticed, white folk have been the most violent people in history. Ever hear of Hitler and Stalin and their mignons? Ergo, the are the most ugliest by your reckoning. As for never being beaten by a ‘black guy’, good for you. John, you were always a racist . You are just looking for justification for being one because deep down you know your racist ideology is just wrong..

    I can’t believe I wasted my time.

    Believe it! You’ve just given this guy more attention in fifteen minutes than he has garnered in his whole life. Of course if you find him entertaining, carry on!

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  501. @ John Ackerby

    You are talking down to us like a patronizing racist twit.

    Not all of the following post applies to you but all too much of it does:

    https://abagond.wordpress.com/2012/05/04/the-white-racist-guide-to-talking-to-blacks-about-race/

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  502. Herneith,

    You are the racist. Not me. I don’t have anything against black people because their skin is darker. My guff with black people is only about their violence. That is all. But you unjustly badmouth all white people – saying that white people are the worse race of all. You are the true racist. And you’re also using false evidence against white people. Yes, white people have done a lot of harm but that was mostly the pre-enlightenment period. Sure up until the 1960s white people were pretty harmful to people of color but that has changed a lot. Your evidence no longer reflects what’s going on in the real world, especially not in America.

    And if you want to go back into the past then let’s go all the way back. Why did white people leave Africa and go to Europe in the first place? The human race started in Africa so a time long ago we were ALL in Africa. And Africa was all that we all knew and understood. So why did some of us – the white people – leave? Why would white people have left the safety of the known and gone off to brave the unknown? I think it’s obvious why. All you have to do is look at how violent black people are today and how they wreck the locations where they live.

    We white people were likely black at that time too. We got white because our ancestors left African long before your ancestors did. Our ancestors were probably physically weaker in numbers or physically weaker in actual physical size. Your ancestors likely exploited our vulnerability and brutalized my ancestors and your ancestors likely would not allow my ancestors to have any of the resources that were available at the time in Africa. So my ancestors had to leave in order to survive. You pushed us out. You offered to us that we could leave or die.

    I’m accusing your ancestors of brutalizing my ancestors and I’m accusing your ancestors of not sharing the resources of the land with my ancestors. So don’t you whine to me about pre-1960 cruelty by white people because my accusation is that your kind brutalized my kind first.

    And I think that is probably why white people have higher IQs. We white people had to survive in an unknown location when we left African to keep your ancestors from murdering us all. Our ancestors made intellectual adjustments in order to survive after we left Africa.

    And by the way, your kind is still in Africa killing off your own people who are either physically weaker or have fewer numbers. Africa is dying because of your kind whereas wherever my kind went we produced wealth and innovation.

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  503. Abagond, I disagree. It is not racist to tell you that I’m sick of black violence and I want it to stop. You are making up excuses not to listen to me but you should listen to me because I’m one of the good guys. Now I really am done talking to you guys. Please stop talking to me. I’ve told you my position. Stop the violence. If you don’t stop the violence we white people will put our foot down soon and when we do that you are going to wish you had listened to those of us who tried to reason with you.

    Again, tone down the violence. Even some of us liberals who want to help African Americans are getting angry. I want the black community to stop the violence to stop and if the black community won’t stop it on their own then we will stop you.

    Please be reasonable. The violence by the black thugs is hurting black people as much, if not more, than white people. Open up your eyes. The violence has to stop and it is going to…one way or another.

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  504. @Kiwi

    I have experienced White people being violent towards me as well and I am a Black woman. Especially in my freshmen year of high school getting bullied. Blacks aren’t anymore violent than anyone else. There are violent people in all races..

    @John Ackerly

    I am a Black woman and I am not violent or rude. I may have an attitude because it a defense mechanism against non Blacks like you who stereotype and lump Blacks into a box. Honestly I am sick of people like you commenting on here and stereotyping Blacks. There are many violent Whites as well as violent Blacks. Why focus on Blacks? Why are you so concerned about us?

    And Black thugs aren’t hurting Whites. Most Blacks commit crimes against their own people!

    I am not a violent person in the least bit. It is sad that individuals like you stereotype a whole race just to make yourself and your meaningless life feel better.

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  505. Adeen, I’m focusing on black people because black people are the ones who are committing most of the violence. Check this out:

    http://www.femisex.com/content/blacks-are-39-times-more-likely-commit-a-violent-crime-against-whites-vice-versa-so-yes-joan

    Blacks are committing crimes against whites. Read the article above and you will see that blacks are committing violent crimes against whites. And You should be glad that there are white guys like me out there who want black on black crime reduced just as much as I want black on white crime reduced. Aren’t you sick of seeing where some black person has killed some other black person? Don’t you want it to stop. How much more of it can you stand. I’m sick of the killing and maiming.

    And no I am not a racist. I am just a man who is fed up with the violence. It’s sickening.

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  506. @John Ackerby

    I am sick of the violence in the Black Community too but how about the violence in the White American Community though? I will admit to being sick of hearing about young, Black males being killed by other young, Black males in their age group.

    There is violence in White America too, you know.

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  507. There is good and bad in every race. I don’t see why people think that one race is better than the other. People are equal in the eyes of God. No one is better than the other. No race is better than another race.

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  508. Adeen, one last thing is this: you say that you have an “attittude” but that is part of the problem. Let me say that again. What you yourself say, that you have an “attitude” is part of the problem. You will say that your “attitude” never hurt anybody but that is false Adeen. Your attitude is hurting people. Look, you’re intelligent and maybe you can have an “attitude” and still be a reasonable peaceful person but what about every other black person you have ever talked to? What about the stupid ones? If all they hear from other black people is it’s OK to have an attitude against whites then they will think it’s OK to hate white people. What you don’t seem to realize is that while you can have an “attitude” without being full of hate some of the black people can’t separate attitude from behavior. So maybe if all they hear from the other black people is “hate white people” so then they are not as smart as you so they think it’s OK to kill white people or even black people, In other words, some people can have “attitude” and keep things responsible but some people can’t. You should be teaching peacefulness and getting along instead of teaching “attitude” to other black people. Some black people don’t get it that attitude is one thing and actual violence is another thing. The ones that don’t get it hear your “attitude” and they think that means it’s OK to hate-on white people and to be bad violent people.

    Are you a force for good or evil? Like I said, until recently I have always defended African Americans and I have only recently gotten annoyed with the African American community. I used to defend black people in every discussion I ever had about black people. In other words, I used to put forth a positive attitude about black people but if you are out there putting forth a negative attitude about white people that causes other black people to hate white people more. You can either be a force for good or evil in this world and your “attitude” is a force for evil. It makes other black people feel comfortable with the idea of being bad.

    Now please I’m done talking about this. I’m tired of being accused of all kinds of things just because I want the violence toned down.

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  509. Ok Adeen, you are sounding reasonable. I can assure you that I am just as sickened by the violence against black people as I am about the violence against white people, There has got to be a way to reduce it. it’s so sad.

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  510. @John;

    Whatever. Put it to music and compose yourself a concerto.

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  511. I think I know what causes the big mess:

    http://rare.us/story/the-jobless-rate-for-poor-black-teen-dropouts-try-95-percent/

    It’s heart-breaking to see these kinds of stats.

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  512. I think it’s job – decent paying jobs. I remember when Clinton was in office he brought a lot of jobs to America and the crime rate came down. Don’t jump on me. I’m not saying that Clinton was better than Obama is. President Obama was given a much worse situation than President Clinton was given. I wish President obama would increase taxes on rich people to create a massive jobs bill with minorities getting the bulk of the jobs. Let’s face it white unemployment rate is already down low; we need to bring down the minority unemployment rate. I wish President Obama would do it.

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  513. I have to admit I started to read the new comments on this post but then decided to stop.

    I am tired of racists like this John Ackerby that want to come in here, act as if they are saying something “brand new” and pretend they are interested in dialogue

    Anybody who reads this blog can easily see that white racist come here “all the time” and say the same crap over and over… broken records.

    White people like him need to grow a set of cojones and just admit that they just don’t like black people and stop by throwing out excuses, acting like they’re so “rational” and analytical.

    blah, blah, blah…

    Be a man, John, and just say, ” I don’t like black people” point blank…

    that’s why I can respect Rednecks and neo-Nazi more — because at the least, they are “honest” about how they feel about black people, and don’t have to play word games and quote statistics to “rationalize their hatred” — unlike white race “realist” like John.

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  514. President Obama needs to vastly improve job prospects for black youth. Do you fully understand the gravity of a 95% unemployment rate? It’s surreal. No wonder they’re so upset. If it was white youth with a 95% unemployment rate white people would be marching on Washington. Maybe it’s time for the black community leaders to organize a march on Washington for the 95% of unemployed black youth (high school dropout rate). It’s ridiculous.

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  515. “John Ackerby,
    Maybe it’s time for the black community leaders to organize a march on Washington for the 95% of unemployed black youth (high school dropout rate). It’s ridiculous”

    Linda says,

    you seem so well informed about black people in America and you have the statistics to prove it (sarcasm on my part)

    How did you manage to miss the part about the “Million Man March”

    an organized march that centered on problems that the black American community faces.

    http://newsone.com/2062043/million-man-march/

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  516. I heard of the million man march and that was a good idea. There are lots of issues that should be addressed in the black community but doesn’t it seem that the high unemployment rate should be right up there at the top with the high rate of violence? Doesn’t it seem like it’s almost impossible to even think that people can behave reasonably and responsibly when they are facing a 95% unemployment rate? It’s unbelievable. How can people possibly survive with this kind of unemployment rate? This has got to change.

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  517. With unemployment rates as high as 95% in some segments of the black community it seems to me like the unemployment rate in the black community should be a stand-alone issue that is protested on its’ own. it’s impossible to expect human beings to survive this kind of unemployment rate. It’s the kind of thing that could literally wipe out that segment of the population. I don’t understand why President Obama is not making it a major issue. I’m a white guy and if I was the president I promise you that I would not go to sleep tonight without a plan to implement tomorrow morning to bring that unemployment rate down to a more livable rate. It’s almost malevolent to leave that unemployment rate that high. I’m left speechless because I really can’t think of the words to say to truly impress upon you how disastrous that rate is and how wrong it is to not make it a top priority of government. It’s ridiculous.

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  518. @John Ackerly

    The unemployment rate in the Black Community is actually 14% overall not 95%. Sad to say but Black unemployment rates have always been higher than White employment rates.

    I am aware of the issues facing the Black Community but that should be on another forum and thread.

    This thread is about Whites who fear Blacks are racist. Tell me why many of your people fear my people.

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  519. Linda what I’m hearing you say is that you don’t like white people because you’re cutting me down for quoting violence statistics that were fairly produced by the government. What a laugh. I’m done talking to you. All you do is call anyone a racist if they don’t say what you want to hear. And you can like the rednecks all you want but they hate you. I’m annoyed with you but I don’t hate you so go ahead an like the rednecks and nazis that hate you. I’m done with you. Please do not talk to me. I’m tired of your whining about racism whenever someone tries to reach you. Just don’t whine anymore that white people won’t dialogue racial issues because the reality is that you don’t want to talk about racial issues. You want to be told everything is hunky dory while your demographic has the highest violence rate, and highest unemployment rate, in the country.

    And I won’t say I’m a racist because I’m not a racist. I’m a man that can read and I’ve read the stats and the stats say that black people have the highest unemployment rate and the highest violence rates and I think that black people should be concerned about that.

    But I’m tired of your name calling. Have a nice life. Please stop talking to me.
    If you asked me to stop talking to you then I would stop talking to you. Please stop sending me response emails. You are very hard to understand. You say you want to talk racial issues, and when someone tries to talk racial issues then you call the person racist even if he is just trying to figure the situation out and quoting stats. Then you say you don’t want to talk to the person and you send the person an email. Please stop talking to me since you think I’m some racist that you don’t want to talk to anyway.

    I’m very sorry about the high unemployment rate. It’s tragic and something should be done about it.

    Like


  520. Adeen, I could be wrong but I suspect that the group with the high unemployment rate (high school drop out black youth) is the same group that’s causing these high violence statistics among black people. In other words i think it’s probably uneducated unemployed youth that’s driving up the violence statistics. So it’s not you but the thing is that you surely have an emotional kindred connection to them so you can’t possibly like it when you hear that they are shot or put in jail for decades. And it makes the entire black community seem unsafe. I think that a lot of these young unemployed uneducated black youths may have psychiatric problems. I don’t mean that as an insult. I mean it as a health issue.

    Like


  521. if the youth with the high unemployment rate are the same people as the youth who are committing the bulk of the violent black violent crimes these two issues could be linked together. It might be that it would really be impossible to solve the violence problem without solving the high unemployment problem.

    Like


  522. While the 14% rate of unemployment among the general black population is not as bad at the 95% rate among the dropout black population it’s still tragic. It’s about double the rate of white unemployment rate right now. Maybe I’m wrong. Maybe it’s actually reasonable for black people to be committing violent crimes when one factors in that black people are shouldering an unjust percentage of the burdens (such as unemployment rate) going on in this country. I’m sincerely sorry. You all should not have to put up with this sh!t. I do not approve of it. I’ll do what I can to help. What can I do?

    Like


  523. Black overall unemployment rate = 14%

    Dropout youth unemployment rate = 95%

    White unemployment rate = about 7%

    No wonder black people are so angry and upset. I’m very sorry about everything I’ve said today. I take back every word. I’m back on your side. I do wish the violence would stop but I understand why black youth specifically, and black people in general, are upset. Black people are getting stuck with all the burden and not much of the treasure. White people are getting the bulk of the treasure and we aren’t sharing. I wish there was something I could do. I do not approve of what is going on and if you tell me how you want me to help I will try to help. I do believe that the problem of black youth violence will be solved by black youth getting a proportionate share of the bounty our country has to offer. i don’t have any power. Nobody cares what I think. But I will write my senators and congressmen, and if you all decide to march about the inequities black people face please email me so I can join you.

    Like


  524. When I said dropout youth unemployment rate i meant black youth dropout rate = 95%

    Like


  525. “John @ Linda what I’m hearing you say is that you don’t like white people because you’re cutting me down for quoting violence statistics that were fairly produced by the government.

    All you do is call anyone a racist if they don’t say what you want to hear…I’m tired of your whining about racism whenever someone tries to reach you.

    Just don’t whine anymore that white people won’t dialogue racial issues because the reality is that you don’t want to talk about racial issues.

    You want to be told everything is hunky dory while your demographic has the highest violence rate, and highest unemployment rate, in the country.”

    Linda says,

    LOL, LOL, — I love it… a white race realist trying to act like a victim…Wowww

    sorry, dear, you seem Real confused…. you and I have never had a conversation about anything before the last 1 hour… what are you smoking? must be real good since you seem to think you are “proving” something with your statistics.

    and Hey John, what I if I told you I wasn’t “black” or American…

    would I be “whining” about my demographic then….. like I said, grow some cohones and stop acting brand new.

    By the way, many people on this blog are not Black… good try though.

    Like


  526. I also love the reverse psychology going on, with a dash of sincerity…. and repetition IS the key…

    if John keeps repeating that black youth “drop out” unemployment rates are= 95%, he can continue to show that “numbers don’t lie”.. and Black people do, indeed, suck as statistics prove…. but don’t percentages represent whole numbers… 95% of how many, again..

    and how many black people are “employed versus unemployed”? a real concerned person would try to bring in the positives vs the negatives.

    since John loves numbers so much, too bad he doesn’t bring in numbers on black people who DO have jobs, what percentage of them are “employed” and which employment sector has seen the most growth of black college graduates –

    you know, positive information about what the black American community has and is doing.

    Like


  527. Linda I really don’t care if you’re black or not. I assumed you were but it doesn’t really matter to me one way or the other. I know I’m not a racist and that means that you throw the word “racist” around where there is no racism taking place. You allege “racism” whenever someone disagrees with you about a race issue. I guess that means you think that if someone disagrees with you on a racial issue then he/she is definitely a racist because it’s impossible you could be wrong or the other person could simply be mistaken rather than the other person being a racist. Well, you can believe what you want but you’re wrong and you’re also overly sensitive on the issue. Everyone who disagrees with you is not a racist. Sometime the other person is right but sometimes the other person is wrong. And in either case the person could disagree with you in good faith without the person being a racist.

    And I’m not smoking anything. Have a nice night.

    Like


  528. Linda’s post:

    I also love the reverse psychology going on, with a dash of sincerity…. and repetition IS the key…

    if John keeps repeating that black youth “drop out” unemployment rates are= 95%, he can continue to show that “numbers don’t lie”.. and Black people do, indeed, suck as statistics prove…. but don’t percentages represent whole numbers… 95% of how many, again..

    and how many black people are “employed versus unemployed”? a real concerned person would try to bring in the positives vs the negatives.

    since John loves numbers so much, too bad he doesn’t bring in numbers on black people who DO have jobs, what percentage of them are “employed” and which employment sector has seen the most growth of black college graduates –

    you know, positive information about what the black American community has and is doing.

    “Reverse psychology” and what else? And you ask me what I’m smoking. Goodnight Linda. Sleep it off.

    Like


  529. John Ackerby,

    I don’t know about the rest of the people here, and I can’t speak for them, but I am SICK to death of hearing about black violence as if it was the only damn threat in America the people have to worry about.

    Let me tell you something plain and clear, there are black people who are very aware of black violence and there are those who are doing something about it.

    I am also sick as hell when white people talk down to black people as if we are center of whatever problem they think is important. You are condescending to a group of people based on your racist beliefs, and that is why you are being attacked.

    Why is it white people feel like talking about black violence is okay and needed, but talking about their own violence is racist? Why is that John? Do you not think about white violence? Do you even think it exist?

    Bottom line: Your views are insulting and offensive, not to mention unoriginal and tired. Do us, and yourself a favor and learn what other people are saying instead of flaunting around your privilege suffocating our views as if they are not as important as yours.

    Like


  530. Linda, “Black people suck” I never said that. I initially said that black people are too violent. And it’s true that black violence annoys me but when I look at the comparative unemployment rates a lot of the blame goes to white people.
    I wish I could say it’s all black people’s fault and they suck but I can’t I look at those unemployment stats and it’s obvious that white people are not sharing and that is where a lot of the resentment by black people is coming from. I’m not saying the 95% unemployment rate among dropout black youth is evidence that black people suck; I’m saying that is evidence that white people are being selfish. I’m not saying that the 14% unemployment rate among black people in general is evidence that black people suck; I’m saying it’s evidence that white people are not sharing.

    Like


  531. And John Ackerby,

    Your statistics do not a people describe. You can use them as much as you like, but it doesn’t make you more informed than the next guy. You just use them to confirm the racist, bigoted beliefs you have on black youth. In the end like they say, statistics are just a dumb person’s way of sounding smart. They only mask the stupidity of racism.

    Like


  532. “John Ackerby,
    you allege “racism” whenever someone disagrees with you about a race issue. I guess that means you think that if someone disagrees with you on a racial issue then he/she is definitely a racist because it’s impossible you could be wrong or the other person could simply be mistaken rather than the other person being a racist.”

    Linda says,

    Sensitive??? about what… you aren’t insulting me, sunshine…but by throwing all these “race realist” code words at me, you are only exposing yourself

    Why do you keep insinuating that you and I have talked before….you and I have never disagreed about anything — we’ve never spoken to each other or you wouldn’t have assumed I was black American.

    I am calling you out for being fake and insincere…and not owning up to the fact that you are a “race realists” …. there have a been many “race realist” who come on this blog saying the EXACT same things you have been saying… why not admit it..

    why try to play victim and lie /pretend that you and I talked previously or that I even e-mailed you in private — that’s childish on your part…you got the wrong Chica…

    Unlike you, I say what I mean without trying to use coded and rehearsed phrases.

    It’s so fashionable for white Americans to try to play “victim” and call black people “racist” as if that should hurt black people’s feelings … Everyone on this board, regardless of race, can see through your second-hand smoke games.

    Like


  533. Brothwawolf, I’m not saying that black violence is the only issue in the world but it is significant and it would be nice to solve the problem. You’ve got to realize that some white people are packing guns and some black youth are being shot by regular Joes. Cops are also shooting some black youth. Everybody loses in this situation. People are being injured and dying on both sides of the color spectrum. I would like to see the problem solved because I think it’s bad for people.

    And I wasn’t trying to talk down to you. I just hate to see the needless loss of life and injury, again on both sides of the color spectrum. So I thought I would add my 2-cents.

    I’m being attacked for no good reason but I don’t care. People disagree with each other. That’s life.

    As far as me coming here and talking down to black people goes, can I point out that I googled “black on white crime” and this site came up. I was not aiming for this site specifically. Plus, you guys are having a discussion about the exact topic I was looking into so I decided to talk with you all about it here since google brought me here. I could also have ended up at some redneck/nazi site, and I think some of the links google pulled up were racist nazi sites, but I don’t talk to racists and nazis. It looked to me like this site involved black people so I thought I would discuss black violence with you guys because black people are always complaining that white people won’t talk racial issues with black people. I guess you meant that you want white people talk racial issues with black people unless the white people actually really try to do it. If they really try to do it then you want to get mad at them and call them racists.

    i don’t talk about white violence because there isn’t much of it. That doesn’t mean that white violence is OK, it just means that there isn’t a lot of it. There’s a disproportionate amount of black violence and I do think that the government should try to fix that. I think that if you look at the high unemployment rates and high poverty rates among black people you will find the reasons for the high violence rates among black people.

    Like


  534. “John Ackerby,
    I’m saying that is evidence that white people are being selfish. I’m not saying that the 14% unemployment rate among black people in general is evidence that black people suck; I’m saying it’s evidence that white people are not sharing.”

    Linda says,

    John, you sound real sincere when you say this but I’m sorry, it just sounds like a play on words or rather, a fake show of solidarity because you made previous statements, such as this

    “John@ And blacks aren’t cleaning up white people’s mess. That’s not what’s happening. What’s really happening is that blacks are making a mess of white people’s beauty. St. Louis, Chicago, and Detroit (for example) used to be beautiful cities but blacks have UGLIFIED them and rendered them practical war zones.”

    How can you advocate for a group of people you have No respect for?

    Like


  535. on Fri 12 Jul 2013 at 06:07:19 THE ALCHEMIST

    @Brothawolf,

    A white racist troll’s black crime stats, IQ numbers, and homocide stats are usually challenged by black men and women. If John Ackerby was a black man that trolled blogs, you tube, Face Book and Twitter that left comments about how 70% of black women are single, 83 % of black children are born OOW and 50% of all black women have” herpes antibody.” He would be a member of the brotherhood in good standing and promoted by black men

    Like


  536. “John Ackerby,
    There’s a disproportionate amount of black violence and I do think that the government should try to fix that. I think that if you look at the high unemployment rates and high poverty rates among black people you will find the reasons for the high violence rates among black people.”

    Linda says,

    and if I am totally off-base and have misjudged you, then I will apologize and give you the benefit of the doubt but like I said, your tone and connotations aren’t matching your words.

    As far as solutions, what do you believe the Government can do to help to decrease violence in the black communities?

    Like


  537. on Fri 12 Jul 2013 at 06:34:53 THE ALCHEMIST

    @Abagond

    John Ackerby said

    “BLACK PEOPLE ARE UNREASONABLE AND THE ONLY WAY TO GET THEM TO TONE DOWN THE VIOLENCE IS TO DO SOME HEAD-CRACKIN”

    Your comments policies ban posters for:

    Repeatedly violating the comment policy
    Ignoring my warnings
    Using a sock puppet
    Threatening other commenters
    Calling for violence

    He violates the last line by promoting violence

    Like


  538. The Alcehmist, I never promoted violence. I was talking about what the police will do if the violence continues. We all know that the police will use night sticks on black people over black violence because they have a history of doing so. My point was that black people will either reduce the violence because they should or they will reduce the violence because the police will increase police beatings of black people. Black people will reduce the violence one way or another – that was my point.

    Now that having been said, the more I think about the inequality in the unemployment rates of black people vs white people the more I’m convinced that economic inequality is the reason for the violence in the black community.
    It’s tragic. Black people need some economic equality and economic justice.

    Like


  539. Linda said,

    ““John Ackerby,
    I’m saying that is evidence that white people are being selfish. I’m not saying that the 14% unemployment rate among black people in general is evidence that black people suck; I’m saying it’s evidence that white people are not sharing.”

    Linda says,

    John, you sound real sincere when you say this but I’m sorry, it just sounds like a play on words or rather, a fake show of solidarity because you made previous statements, such as this

    “John@ And blacks aren’t cleaning up white people’s mess. That’s not what’s happening. What’s really happening is that blacks are making a mess of white people’s beauty. St. Louis, Chicago, and Detroit (for example) used to be beautiful cities but blacks have UGLIFIED them and rendered them practical war zones.”

    How can you advocate for a group of people you have No respect for?”

    It’s not a contradiction; rather the two statements were made at two different times. I’m very sorry about the stuff I said about black people uglifying some towns. I said the stuff I said about how blacks are uglifying some of these towns before I had a chance to really think about the gravity of these unemployment rates that black people are having to deal with. Black people need economic justice and equality if they are to be expected to do the upkeep of their neighborhoods that white people can afford to do. Black people don’t have money. The wealth is overwhelmingly going to white people. The problems in the black communities are economic justice and economic equality. I’m very very sorry about the tragic unjust obstacles that black people are facing. It’s gut-wrenching to think that people have to cope with these obstacles. What can be done?

    Like


  540. John Ackerby,

    “Brothwawolf, I’m not saying that black violence is the only issue in the world but it is significant and it would be nice to solve the problem.”

    I didn’t even type that. I said, “I am SICK to death of hearing about black violence as if it was the only damn threat in America the people have to worry about, and “I am also sick as hell when white people talk down to black people as if we are center of whatever problem they think is important.”

    And whether you agree or not, it WAS condescending to me.

    “I’m being attacked for no good reason but I don’t care.”

    There are good reasons. But in a typical fashion, you don’t care what they are, nor do you care to read them. So, you can drop your ‘nice white guy’ con.

    “As far as me coming here and talking down to black people goes, can I point out that I googled “black on white crime” and this site came up. I was not aiming for this site specifically. Plus, you guys are having a discussion about the exact topic I was looking into so I decided to talk with you all about it here since google brought me here.”

    You’ve pretty much revealed yourself when you said you were looking for black-on-white crime. That is a red flag. It hints of your racism. In any case, the only thing that brought you here was your own choice. YOU made the decision to come here. No one and nothing forced you to come here.

    i don’t talk about white violence because there isn’t much of it.

    What about institutionalized violence headed mostly by whites? What about wars headed and fought mostly by whites? To go even further, what about serial killers, mass murderers, school shootings, as examples? How can the majority of the U.S. population be the responsible for not much violence??

    Like


  541. Brothawolf, firstly, I could make all kinds of innuendo about you calling yourself a wolf but I don’t because it’s beneath me. I could make hay about it and scream about how you are comparing yourself to a dangerous animal so that shows how violent you are. But I don’t because I know that you call yourself “wolf” to be cute and not because you really want to behave like a wolf. So I don’t take cheap unnecessary shots at you for comparing yourself to a dangerous animal and yet you take cheap shots at me because I googled “black on white crime” even though I only started doing that the past few weeks because black people are threatening to kill white people if George Zimmerman is found not guilty. So of course with most experts saying George Zimmerman should be found not guilty, and with black people saying they are going to kill white people if George Zimmerman is found not guilty, that makes it totally reasonable for me to look up black violence on the internet. I never even looked into this issue before. I never even thought about the issue before. It was the threats by black people that prompted me to examine the issue of black violence against white people.

    And it should go without saying that I equally abhor the violence by white people against white or black people. I abhor violence. It’s ugly. I hate it if it’s out in the street or at home.

    The only violence that I can think of that I forgive is self defense violence or the violence by a truly insane person.

    Like


  542. Actually despite being around 70% of the population. white people are only responsible for about 30 odd percent of the crimes of violence.

    Sounds like white people aren’t violence, but once you get past white, black and native, and most of native violence is centered around alcohol usage.

    But like I was saying once you get past white and black, the other races for the most part are in comparison almost non-murderous/violent, the 15% of the non black/white population is responsible for something less than 3% of crimes of violence.

    To put this in perspective, we tend to think of women as being the less violent/aggressive of the species but compared to almost every non-white race in the US, white women are more violent than the men of every other group by a pretty far margin.

    Like


  543. Sharina,

    Good call.

    John Ackerby,

    Was what I said about my suspicions about you Googling black-on-white crime, hit a nerve? Was I right on the money when I said that it hinted of your racism? Besides you followed it up by saying,

    I only started doing that the past few weeks because black people are threatening to kill white people if George Zimmerman is found not guilty. So of course with most experts saying George Zimmerman should be found not guilty, and with black people saying they are going to kill white people if George Zimmerman is found not guilty, that makes it totally reasonable for me to look up black violence on the internet.”

    I find that totally lame.

    I can not take what you said at face value. I have yet to hear anything resembling the targeting of whites by blacks if Zimmerman walks. All there is are speculations and assumptions. And I don’t believe you for one red-hot second. I really think you just pulled it out of your you-know-what in your racist (that’s right, racist) obsession with black violence and interest in black-on-white violence. I truly do believe you’re imagining a race retaliation, violent blacks against the nonviolent whites. That’s what’s going on in your head, I believe.

    If you are against violence of any kind you WOULD NOT cry and whine about black violence in a sad attempt to make it seem like you care.

    Here’s the deal, most black people HATE VIOLENCE. We do not glorify it. We do not ignore it. There are people, blacks included, that is fighting violence in communities. Is the violence continuing? Yes. But guess what? Violence is part of the human experience. People are doing what they can to stop with with that they have.

    Your claims that white violence doesn’t happen often is a coded white supremacist comment to suggest that white people are, by nature, nonviolent as opposed to blacks. It is the same kind of crap seen on sites like Stormfront, VDare, Amren, and other white racist sites. The difference is you try to mask it with your liberal kindness with pointing out the causes of black violence. But it STILL SHOWS. Your racism is out in the open.

    John, you may think we’re dumb as rocks, but we can see right through you. Your excuse of coming here to “teach” us with your benevolent guidance, is nothing more than childish trolling. I think I speak for others when I say that we DON’T NEED your kind of “knowledge”. You’re only fooling yourself if you think we care.

    Adios.

    Like


  544. on Sat 13 Jul 2013 at 04:19:11 King of Trouble

    John did you actually say that Chicago was a beautiful city. Please tell me when, because the stink from the slaughter houses must have thrown me off. Of course I still believe that Chicago is the most beautiful place ever. However if you are going to bash the city please remember the city planners. Chicago was horrible for the Poles, Irish, and Italians for a long time. Not to mention the those from the Ukraine.
    Detroit was a beautiful city until someone pull the plug on Auto jobs there. You can bet your sweet marmalade that it wasn’t a black person who did that.
    Cities were made ugly be undercutting funding; Plain and Simple, but the next time you call Chicago ugly you really should be looking at your own domicile. My city is beautiful she’s got her rough spots but she still is a beaut.

    P.S. I love you Chicago!

    Like


  545. brothawolf you said that blacks are not threatening to murder whites if Zimmerman is not convicted so I posted links that show some of the articles that contain some of those very threats. That post of mine is awaiting moderation. I think that my citations will not be allowed into the blog because black people do not want to see the violent hatred being expressed against whites by black people. You call me a racist and I am definitely not a racist and the links I posted would show the real truth that many blacks would kill me for no reason other than the fact that I am white if Zimmerman is found not guilty.

    The moderator is not going to let those links post and even if he does you will have some dishonest excuse to proclaim that it is not what it really is. You will say that the blue sky is really orange or the green tree is really pink with blue polka dots. I’m not believing your false excuses brothawolf. You are an apologist for the black racists because you are in denial. And as I said right from the beginning until you face and admit the truth there will be no solution. Of course the government must also force whites to share our country’s bounty with black people but black people will also have to face it that they need to control their violence. It will take both actions to get black violence to stop. Certainly you sticking your head in the sand and pretending black violence does not exist is not going to solve the problem. What a laugh!!!!

    Like


  546. “John Ackerby to Brotherwolf
    The moderator is not going to let those links post and even if he does you will have some dishonest excuse to proclaim that it is not what it really is.

    You are an apologist for the black racists because you are in denial.

    Certainly you sticking your head in the sand and pretending black violence does not exist is not going to solve the problem.”

    Linda says,

    John, I asked you before what you believe will stop the problem… and you did not answer.

    You want to be taken seriously on this blog but you seem to be hitting every race realist bullet-point… so, why don’t you get off script and answer my question.

    As an advocate for black economic justice and black crime, please give details into what precise action needs to be taken by the Government to stop “black-on-black”, “black-on-whoever” violence?

    Like


  547. Linda, I admit that I don’t know what to do.The problem is bigger than me. I’m a middle class white/Hispanic guy and I want all Americans to have the opportunity to be middle class people. The problem is bigger than me. I can help and I will be happy to help but I don’t know what to do and I admit that whatever the solution is I can’t do it alone.

    Even if black people were to put their collective foot down and try to stop the violent black youths in their communities they can’t solve the problem alone. They will need government help and they will also need government help to reduce the black unemployment rates, which is the other part of the problem. We have to solve both parts of the problem.

    And President Obama is not going to do much to reduce black unemployment because he’s concerned his critics will accuse him of favoring blacks over whites. Of course he should do it anyway, but he is trying to secure a lofty place in history and he’s trying to do that because in the long run it will help black people by raising the standing of all black people if his Presidency is considered to be a success.

    But it seems like every generation people like me ask the present generation of black people to grin and bear their tragic inequalities because down the road in the future we will find some promised land where equality will finally be achieved, and black people and white people will all share in the bounty of America. But it’s hard to ask blacks to wait for justice while their lives pass them by and they continue to get the short end of the stick. I’m sorry. I’m not powerful enough to stop the inequity. President Obama is, but if he tries his critics will use that against him to tarnish his image and as I have already said that will tarnish the image of all black people.

    I do have two ideas that we regular people could try to implement, and you’re going to say one’s stupid and the other is crazy, but I have to throw them both out there because I think I’m intelligent (even if I’m not) and since I think I’m intelligent I think that there’s a chance these two ideas could actually ameliorate some of the pain while we wait for a better world. Again, you’re going to say this is crazy but I can only think of two things and here they are:

    1. This is the stupid idea: We could try more marches demanding economic equality and more letters and more protesting demanding the same.

    2. This is the crazy idea: We could do more to facilitate interracial relationships between black and white people. I know, it’s crazy. I know, it’s lame. I know, it’s moronic. But it does seem to me that the more black people become blended with white people by way of interracial relationships the more power black people have.

    OK go ahead and attack me for stupidity and craziness because I deserve it.

    Like


  548. John Ackerby,
    I do have two ideas that we regular people could try to implement, and you’re going to say one’s stupid and the other is crazy

    1. We could try more marches demanding economic equality and more letters and more protesting demanding the same.

    2. We could do more to facilitate interracial relationships between black and white people. it does seem to me that the more black people become blended with white people by way of interracial relationships the more power black people have.

    Linda says,

    No, you’re not crazy — just a little un-original.

    The first idea has been and continues to be done by black Americans — so that’s not new (it’s already a proven formula –that’s why black Americans are an integrated part of society today)

    and you’re 2nd idea is also already in the works…look at Obama, living proof that interracial relationships have been in progress in the daytime… but isn’t it sad how white people still call him a “monkey”

    I’m sure you can think of some sort of “policy” type changes that would benefit the lower class.

    I don’t know about you, but almost all of the black Americans I know are “middle-class” college-educated with really great jobs, earning high-end 5 figure or 6 figure salaries.

    Middle-class black Americans are not “violent” and there is a large number of them living in the USA — they contribute a great deal to this country and seem to get overlooked.

    Have you done a study yet to contrast middle-class blacks with poor/working class blacks to see exactly Where the breakdown is occurring?

    What did the middle class blacks do differently to succeed in America that the poor black people haven’t done? How did the middle-class blacks manage to keep the American government from giving them the “short end of the stick”?

    Like


  549. For the record, I do not call President Obama a mo_key. But I do call President Bush an idiot. That aside, I haven’t done any studies, and I don’t have any evidence to support what I’m going to suggest, but I do think that many of the middle class black people have traits that help them succeed whereas many of the poor black people have traits that limit their ability to succeed. For example, some people look better than other people, some people learn better than other people, and some people communicate more effectively than other people. Do you know the value of something as luck-based as physical attractiveness in the workplace? it’s huge. I think that people should try to present well, communicate well, and be intellectually prepared when they are trying to join the workforce. I think that someone who doesn’t look well, doesn’t communicate well, doesn’t dress well, doesn’t have any intellectual successes (not even a high school diploma) is in trouble and I think that there are lots of people like that who are not succeeding financially. Aside from these superficial things I also think that some people have psychiatric problems that prevent them from succeeding because it makes it hard for them to get an education and function in the workplace.

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  550. I think that an education is key. A person should try to get at least an Associate Arts degree. An Associate Arts degree shows that a person can learn and follow a program. Everything’s going computers so that’s a good area of study to get an AA in. A high school drop-out is in huge trouble industrially. So the thing to do is to keep black kids in school.

    Also, it’s a good idea to learn things like dressing appropriately, communicating well, and making one’s self presentable. People don’t have to be foxes and Prince Charming but one can make one’s self appear presentable amd professional. And you may think that black people don’t need to be told how to dress but wearing pants that have the waste hanging down to one’s @ss is not a professional appearance. I hope that the next time I’m looking for a job the other applicants are wearing the wastes of their pants down their @sses. I’ll get the job by default. The gangsta look is not desirable in the professional world. .

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  551. And it’s not a good idea to have a police record for a violent crime if you want to make it in the professional world.

    I would say that the black kids need programs that teach them these things, but also the black kids are getting some terrible influences from some in the music industry and other peers of theirs.

    Again, I hope that the next time I have to look for a judge my competition is some black guys who are wearing the wastes of their pants down to their @sses, they’ve been cited for rioting in some flash-mob, maybe committed a violent crime or two, and maybe he/she is wearing a t-shirt of their favorite cop-hating, woman-loathing rap star. They wouldn’t have a chance against me. I present well, I have 4 years of college, I talk politely, I dress appropriately, I have no criminal convictions, and I’m a nice, quiet, peaceful person with a soft voice.

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  552. In the above post I meant to say that I hope the next time I have to look for a “job” but accidentally said I hope the next I have to look for a “judge” by mistake. Typo.

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  553. If the George Zimmerman trial results in a not guilty verdict hundreds of thousands of black teens will be influenced by violent forces and those black teems may riot and end up with criminal records. Do you know how much those criminal records will hurt those black teens, and help their white-teen competition, later when those same teens people try to get jobs in the professional world?

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  554. “John Ackerby@
    I think that an education is key. A person should try to get at least an Associate Arts degree.”

    Linda says,

    Funny you should mention that, the majority of middle class black people have Bachelors, Masters, and pHd’s

    So, are you saying that black middle-class people are successful because they believe in education, have no criminal records, and dress appropriately? are those the reasons why they are successful?

    so, are you suggesting that poor/lower class blacks should follow the example of middle-class blacks, because the black middle-class has already proven that education and hard-work leads to success.

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  555. Yes Linda, that’s exactly what I’m suggesting. People like you are the successful trail blazers with the best rate of success. Sure a few of the gangsters are making money, but not most of them. On the other hand, most of the people like you, the people who followed the path of education, hard work ,dressing appropriately and staying away from crime have a higher success rate than the gangsters. Of course the smart move is to follow the path with the highest rate of success and your path has a higher rate of success than the gangster path. Also, your path to success is not fraught with pitfalls such as jail terms, bullet holes, and other awful things. Look at the gangsters, even the ones with some money, they go to jail, they get beat up, they’re under investigation and at odds with cops and prosecutors all the time. Do you know what it costs, and how nerve wracking it must be, to have to fight to stay out of jail even if you are successful as a gangster? Who needs that kind of stress and drama? Your path is a path that does not have all of these terrible potential consequences.

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  556. @ everybody

    Kiwi you’re kind of paranoid.

    The white guy who’s getting worked up over black crime “uglifying beautiful white cities” is telling me I’m paranoid? Okaaaaay… I would hope he knows something about paranoia. After all, he seems to be the one with more experience.

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  557. And if you say you’re not black, he turns around, pretending that it doesn’t matter, anyway.”

    Lo, and behold.😛

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  558. jefe,

    You said, “Lo, and behold.”

    Lo and behold what? Lo and behold that it doesn’t ultimately matter if the other poster is black or not. OK, Lo and behold that.

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  559. @John Ackerby

    If you disagree with the views many people on here post, how come you are on here to post?

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  560. Exhibit A (in case it was forgotten) “I could make hay about it and scream about how you are comparing yourself to a dangerous animal so that shows how violent you are.”

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  561. @ Linda

    “where do these white people live why they are surrounded by so many poor black people… because they talk about poor black people ALL the time.:—I am beginning to believe that these type of people assume those black people are poor rather than actually knowing.

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  562. Adeen, you ask why I am here discussing the issue(s). Well, Adeen, have you noticed that even though some of what we are all saying is kind of heated the fact of the matter is that we are having an honest discussion with the opinions of all sides being put out in the open? Isn’t this discussion better than people committing violent acts against each other. We are all learning how we all feel about the issue(s) involved so isn’t that a good thing?

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  563. correction advise*

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  564. Then don’t but if Linda starts talking about you and not to you, then don’t be upset in the slightest.

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  565. Wow. How hard is it to tell someone that their opinion is not appreciated? Generally if more than one person continues to disagree with you, you’re losing the argument.

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  566. So Anne then why do black people complain that white people won’t discuss and engage about racial issues? You don’t want to engage and discuss racial issues. You want a “yes” man who just says what you want to hear. And if that’s the case then black people should stop complaining that white people won’t dialogue about race because the moment we