Lee Daniels (1959- ), a US film-maker, is one of the top Black directors in Hollywood. He makes cringetastic films about Blacks that are well-received by Whites. So far, he is best known for:
- 2001: “Monster’s Ball”: producer
- 2009: “Precious”: director, producer
- 2013: “Lee Daniels’ The Butler”: director
- 2015: “Empire” (television series): co-creator, director, writer.
Danny Strong, the writer of “The Butler”, is Daniels’s co-creator on “Empire”. Strong came up with the idea for “Empire” while listening to a rap song. “Empire” is like a Black “Dallas” (1978-1991).
Actors that Daniels likes to use: Terrence Howard, Oprah Winfrey, Mariah Carey, Gabourey Sidibe, Macy Gray, Lenny Kravitz, Mo’Nique, John Cusack and Cuba Gooding, Jr.
The great thing about Lee Daniels is that he can direct and produce serious Black dramas that are hits, ones that make millions and win awards at the same time.
The terrible thing about Lee Daniels is that his stories push well-worn stereotypes: Jezebel, Sapphire, Black Brute, Welfare Queen, drug dealer, rapper, servant. They confirm rather than challenge White racism, especially the idea of Black pathologies. Yet Daniels has no trouble challenging Black homophobia (and does it well).
His casting of female characters seems to be informed by colourism. Functional interracial and same-sex relationships seem more common than functional straight, Black ones. (Daniels’s boyfriend is White.)
Is Daniels a sell-out? In a Don Lemon interview on CNN in 2015:
Lee Daniels: This is not just show. It’s show business and you gotta play ball. I don’t like calling the race card. I don’t believe in it, because if I buy into it then it becomes “real”. If I knew what I knew when I was 21, I wouldn’t be where I’m at right now.
Don Lemon: Some people call that selling out.
Lee Daniels: I guess I’m a sell out then. Call it what it is, but I’m not going to not work, not going to not tell my truth, not going to not call people on their bull. Call it what it is. And see you in theaters.
His truth: Daniel presents people of colour the same way some White liberals do, like in “The Wire” (2002-2008): they go to great pains to be realistic, they give their characters an inner life, moral complexity, human dignity, all of that, but they are still stereotypes, just fleshed-out ones – what I call stereotyped realism.
For example, his two lead characters in “Empire” come from the same place he does: the Black ghettos of Philadelphia. Yet, unlike him, they act to stereotype: one dealt drugs, served time in prison and acts like a “hoodrat”, while the other was a rapper and is a heartless killer.
On the other hand, there are realistic touches that come from his own life. The apartment in “Precious”, for example, is based on his boyhood home. The scene in “Empire” where Jamal’s father throws him in the trash as a little boy for wearing his mother’s scarf and high-heel shoes – is something Daniels lived.
See also:
- Know them by their tweets? – his silence on Ferguson
- From Lee Daniels:
- Oprah
- stereotypes
- Black pathology
- colourism
- The Wire
- Black ghetto
- The BET Fallacy
Empire is corny as heck, but I still like the show. I also like House of Cards so I guess I just get a kick out of corny shows.
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isnt fleshed out stereotype an oxymoron?
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Lee Daniels has done the impossible. He has taken me from being open minded to a step towards homophobia. Job well done.
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I can’t even convey how distasteful this self admitted sell-out is. I wouldn’t watch a Lee Daniels production if it meant saving my eyesight. And then he’s gonna go and speak with Don Lemon another neutralized negro. Both confused as to what a penis is for and both sleeping with white males. COMPLETELY EFFING NEUTRALIZED!!! Makes me sick.
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I think alot of who he is spills into his work. He is kind of disgusting to me sometimes. Sometimes he comes of like the coon of the century. But other times i kind of think he is a talented filmmaker. I have to admit Empire is my guilty pleasure.
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Empire is not I Claudius on MasterPiece Theater it is what is. Soap oprah foolishness like Dynasty or Dallas. But it’s so much fun.
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^^^It is what it is^^^
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Lee Daniels and Danny Strong are both sick perverted homosexual demons! They have an agenda to promote negative stereotypes about black people. I’m glad people are waking up to the filth they are spreading. They need to be called out.
https://kushiteprince.wordpress.com/2015/01/31/lee-daniels-danny-strong-masters-of-black-degradation/
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@Mary
“I have to admit Empire is my guilty pleasure.”—-Mine Too. Mainly because of Taraji.
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@Solesearch
I guess I am in the same boat with the corny shows. I am still watching Pretty Little Liars and no one can tell me that show is no C-O-R-N-Y.
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@shirinalr: Taraji makes the show fun in addition to all the other characters on the show. I watch to hear what outrageous thing Cookie is going to say. Cookie spits fire.
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Yeah, “the Butler” played to white Liberal stereotypes. I hope we get some posts on the guide to the White Liberal mind.
@Solesearch
No, we have both fleshed out and cardboard stereotyped characters.
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I only watch Empire for Taraji (and a little Justin) but Daniels is just…no.
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Lee Daniels got issues. LOL! I haven’t brought myself to watch Empire, kind like I can’t see myself watching The Have and the Have Nots. Those shows scream walkie/talkie memes and just too stereotypical for me. I’ll keep my guilty pleasures with Shondaland 😀
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I wonder if there are black actors who choose not to work with him?
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Also I saw him on the Larry Whitmore show. I think he thinks he has arrived.
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@ Anne
I’m sure that was a lovefest. Larry Wilmore is a self-hating black as well. They have a lot in common.lol
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Other than “Precious” being a stronghold of overcoming, I also like his 2004 “The Woodsman”. Other than that….. You guys gotta leave the homosexual thing alone. You attack that and you pretty much just turn this place into the typical hate blog/site.
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Dude (Lee Daniels) got some serious issues.
Daniels favors the dysfunctional Black family over the constructive Black family. Also, Daniels further reinforces the stereotypes of Black people in the heads of non-Black people. As Fats Domino would say “Ain’t that a shame.”
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“I hope we get some posts on the guide to the White Liberal mind.”
Lots of explanations on the Stuff White People Like list.
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jefe,
“No, we have both fleshed out and cardboard stereotyped characters.”
Could you explain that a little more?
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I have mixed feelings on Lee Daniels.
I can’t help but be happy that he is employing black actors, but on the other end I feel that I am accepting his mediocre display simply because he is black. You can’t even really call him on his bs without some blacks screaming about how blacks tear each other down.
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@Solesearch,
I really thought that Abagond gave some good examples, but I’ll take a stab at it.
The Oxford English Dictionary defines “stereotype” as
There is nothing in this definition which impacts whether the character is depicted in depth, ie, fleshed-out v. a cardboard character.
A cardboard character is 2-dimensional and superficial, but it does not have to be stereotyped. For example, we could have a cardboard character that does not play at all to stereotype, eg, a tall athletic looking black male who appears briefly as a computer geek; an Asian American male US secretary of State with no more depth than a quick televised speech; a white slave in the antebellum South.
There is no reason why any of these characters could not exist in real life.
We can think of many examples where a cardboard character would not play to type, or the preconceived simplified idea of how a character should be. Therefore, it could be stereotyped or non-stereotyped.
We can think of many cardboard characters which play to their stereotypes, eg, the Asian doctor who pops out to tell the family the health of their family member; the black male criminal or female mammy, the Latino fruit picker or maid, the Jewish hollywood executive, the Arab terrorist.
For it to be fleshed out, the character would have more depth, ie, an inner life as well as other dimensions to life besides what you see on cardboard, eg, a love life or sex life, activities (eg, hobbies, personal obligations, interests, thoughts, or skills) and moral complexity that extend beyond what is found in a cardboard character.
These could play to the stereotype or against stereotype.
Abagond’s point was that Lee Daniels’ BLACK characters play to the White Liberal stereotype of that character, regardless of the depth or inner life that that character is given.
So we see
– blacks with an inner life, but who play inner city drug dealers. — fleshed out, but conforming to stereotype.
– middle class blacks who are boring with no life beyond the brief appearances of their roles in their jobs, ie, cardboard, but not necessarily playing to stereotype.
– black servants, or inner city thugs, who are both cardboard and play to stereotype.
What is missing — fleshed out characters that are not playing to the stereotypes acceptable to white liberals. Those characters might be offensive to the sensibilities of white viewers.
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Some might argue that appeasement (selling out) is a way to “open doors” so that other black people can become directors(or “elites”) and carry justice forward from the inside?….what do people here think about such a justification?
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interesting pattern and association –
homosexual black male
successful in hollywood
depicting black people in stereotypical racist ways
“Monster’s Ball” and “Precious”: count as the apex of contemporary racist hollywood media and it seems logical that such a type of african american would be involved.
it seems true that one of the priorities of racist white people is to promote homosexuality and antagonism between the male and female esp in regards to black people and in terms of biology and dominance hierarchies it seems logical as a method of subordinating your competition and restricting their reproduction.
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Yep, Lee Daniels is certainly not the only sellout. In fact, most have to sell out at one point or another in order to break down a barrier.
Obama had to become a partial sellout to become president.
Most of the oscar winners had to play “sellout” roles.
I read that the writer of “Fresh off the Boat” had to “sell out” some points just to get a TV show with an Asian American cast shown on prime time.
Indeed, it seems that not all barriers can be broken at a time. Those that “open doors” usually need to sell out at something. Just look at all those athletes who broke the colour barrier.
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@Anon
on part I think it is a reasonable justification because it does open doors, but at the same time….how many blacks does a sell out need to rack over the coals to “make it”.
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@hunglikejesus
That’s hilarious, but I don’t blame Lee Daniels for telling these stories (mostly because they’ve been so lucrative for him), but I agree with Kushite Prince, that I won’t support him since Daniels’ work does nothing but serve to denigrate black people.
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@TeedyBear Sniffer: “The Woodsman was interesting to say the least.
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I notice here that these stereotypes are associated with “White liberal”, yet I don’t get how that works: Showing Blacks as criminals and what not to me seems more associated with “Stormfront”-like right wing type stuff than “liberal” to me, since those are the kind of places and people I usually hear complaining about Blacks being criminal, etc. . And if you don’t like these “White liberal” stereotypes, where do you fall on the political spectrum or universe?
Also, I’m curious: just what, what exactly would happen if some TV or film writer were to come out with a fleshed-out character who was Black, and not a gangster or rapper or drug dealer or whatever but who was, say, a Theoretical Physicist, a super spy, an astronaut, a computer programmer, or something like those? Or have a show or movie with a bunch of those in it as lead roles?
What can be done to help make this happen and happen more?
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apparently the most important thing for social dominance and control is for the people being dominated to always have the least positive image of themselves esp in regards to sexuality; they must be keep antagonistic toward opposite gender members of their own group and otherwise reject normal hetrosexual roles and relationships ,enforcing the rules til they become inbuild in the subordinate population.
Recently we have another redition of a white european “classic” cinderella with the blonde/white female as standard.
And in 1997 the was a black female lead of a cinderella film but her mate was a white male!
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^ actually the one with brandy she had an Asian man as the prince. But his parents were white and black wtf. I do notice there is no functional black love on tv, and when we do have black princesses they have a non black prince.
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The difference between some liberal whites and the right wing is that the liberals will stab u in the back say it was on accident while the right wing will stab u in the face and do it unapologetically and boldly. They will show a complex black character that is still a stereotype because they are still white, may have a few more black friends but they still don’t fully get it. They may listen to rap, love black culture, etc so they feel they have an authority on black culture. They still view blacks as these stereotypes but in more of a pitying/ patronizing way. These are the ones that will try to lead us or “help” us instead of listening to what we want and allowing us to tell them what we would like them to do to help.
If there are black characters that don’t conform to the stereotypes black people may start to see ourselves differently and others will see us differently. If a child sees someone that looks like them in a powerful position they will start to think that could be them someday. Movies affect how people view others, if u have people watching more movies than reading books they will only see one side of the story. The story that these corporations and people with money can fund while the ones that don’t have the funds will not be able to get their story told.if they want it told they have to go asking for money from these same people that don’t think these movies will sell. Whereas with books everybody and their mama are writing books and selling it, it is cheaper and u have a variety of characters.
To make these stories happen people would have to be willing to pay for quality content. Blackandsexytv, issa rae, inkspotentertainment, are online and are trying to do bigger things. It is possible but people have to support it, and some folks have bought into these stereotypes and will not watch because it isn’t the drama and dysfunction they are use to.
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Lee daniels is all the way sold out, I can understand if u sell out a little to get ur foot in the door but once u get money and can do something different but choose not to I have no respect for u. Maybe these movies he makes are dysfunctional because he may have lived it and is telling parts of his own life. It is dysfunctional to us but to him and the people that support this it may be part of their truth even if it is exaggerated or it could be there are not many options other than the stereotypical movies and people watch just to see someone that looks like them even if they don’t act like them. whatever it is, it is more than just entertainment and has consequences.
I am not surprised the butler was written by a white man, yet they put a black man’s name on it. This is why u need to research these movies and you’d be surprised at what u find.
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@mstoogood4yall:
Thanks for the explanation about the left/right thing. But I’m still curious: where does that place someone who objects to both those left- and right-wing racisms on the political spectrum or universe?
Also, why can’t you get drama with a non-stereotyped cast? There are dramas done with “White” characters who are not gangsters, drug dealers, or whatever (of course gangster is not a “stereotype” role for Whites, but the point is you can get dramas out of roles other than “stereotypical Black roles”) and they get high reviews. So that shows you don’t need them to be all gangsters, etc. to get drama. So now why can’t you use those same kind of non-gangster, non-drug-dealer, etc. roles only now put Black people in them? Why would the drama vanish if you did that?
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some people do not agree with either the right or left and either don’t vote. vote for the lesser of two evils, or vote for other parties.
“So now why can’t you use those same kind of non-gangster, non-drug-dealer, etc. roles only now put Black people in them? Why would the drama vanish if you did that?”
There can be drama with black characters but people assume black folks drama always includes drugs, gangs, single mothers, abuse, etc, There have been black actors that have said they were told to sound “blacker or more ethnic” because people assume these stereotypes are the authentic black experience.
The drama would not vanish but change the race and people may view it differently or see it as a black person taking a white role. Then there’s the whole bs of black leads don’t sell as much, just look at the leaked sony emails.
http://blogs.indiewire.com/shadowandact/why-white-people-dont-like-black-movies
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I love me some Empire and Cookie, something in the milk isn’t clean about Lee Daniels. Since Lee has a penchant for behaving like the Black community is the most exponentially homophobic and propagating that white supremacist lie “reverse racism” I don’t really know about him. And despite loving the Empire and the banging azz music they have on the show, I have noticed some of the stereotypes you pointed out. I just think it’s important for Black folks [especially kids] to be cognizant of what they’re watching, understand that they’re seeing stereotype, and comprehend that is not the full story. While there might have been some drug dealers in their “ghetto” neighborhood in Philly, there were also some nurses, teachers, construction workers, and college students in that neighborhood too the way there always are in Black neighborhoods. We’re a diverse people, who belong to a particular racial group, with many ethnicities and nationalities. We’re also individuals. Anyway, I love the show, despite my misgivings about the stereotypes, but I’m not too sure I like Lee.
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I like Empire, despite some misgivings about the stereotypes, but I’m not too sure I like Lee.
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@ Mary Burrell
Oh girl, I love me some Taraji. And I need every single last one of the fur coats she wears on that show. She is beyond fabulous, lol!!! And I completely agree about it being soap opera like. It’s not “A Raisin In the Sun”, it’s the 21st century version of Dynasty. It is what it is: escapism that you’re not supposed to take seriously.
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She’s a cold piece…
(https://sheezacoldpiece.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/taraji-p-henson-instagram-upscale-magazine-1.jpg)
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This guy is the ultimate weapon for the worst kind of people!
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@Veronica: I know right
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I also love Jussie Smollet in the character of Jamal Lyon is is just a cutie. I think he is talented as an actor and music artist.
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The TV series Empire just started airing on broadband TV here last week. It would be great to have a post just on that.
Also checked that the teleplay is almost entirely written by whites.
Also just double-checked — Taraji P. Henson basically grew up where I did, first in SE DC and then in suburban southern PG county, MD, attending my high school’s rival high school.
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@ Jefe
Good idea. Season one just ended in the US. I will do a post on while it is still fresh in people’s minds here.
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FOX’s The O’Reilly Factor
http://crooksandliars.com/files/mediaposters/2013/08/27843.jpg?ts=1396411074
FOX’s Empire
It’s very ironic how Bill O’Reilly talks ill about Black people and the Hip-Hop music industry when the same network that employs him – Fox – is bringing in tons of revenue from its hit television show ‘Empire’. Empire is a dynasty set in the hip-hop world. O’Reilly doesn’t want to accept the fact that the problem is not Hip-Hop music. The problem is Jewish-owned corporations that have the power to control and manipulate our society. Obviously, Bill O’Reilly is a major critic of Hip-Hop music and he is entitled to that right. However, O’Reilly would not be critical of Hip-Hop music if Black rappers were not signed by major corporations. It’s the music industry, which is another Jewish-owned and controlled industry that gives rappers a platform – a platform that many cannot handle. Nowadays, rap music can be heard on major radio stations and inside sports arenas and stadiums. One has to have power to allow what many white Americans call “thug music” to be played inside arenas and stadiums that are not built or owned by Black people. Bill O’Reilly should have studied the history of Hip-Hop before criticizing it. As my ole man (pops) would say: “Don’t fight the puppet, fight the puppeteer.”
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From Mic:
Source:
https://mic.com/articles/162160/2016-was-the-year-of-coddling-white-people?utm_source=policymicTBLR&utm_medium=movement&utm_campaign=social#.gIizc1lLr
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^ Looks like a post on White Identity Politics might be in order soon. It is different from the sort of identity politics from the 1940s-50s, when it wasn’t about asserting white identity exactly.
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