The Sapphire stereotype is one of the main ways white Americans look at black women. It is why so many of them think black women are hard to get along with.
Sapphire, named after a character in “Amos ‘n’ Andy”, always seems to have her hands on her hips while she is running her mouth – putting down her man, making everything into a fight, never taking anything lying down. She is an overbearing, hard and undesirable woman who drives men away. Think of Tichina Arnold’s character Pam in “Martin”. Michelle Obama comes dangerously close to being read this way.
A study done in 1993 of white American university students showed that nearly all of them saw black women as Sapphires to some degree. It seems to be common among black men too. I am guilty of it myself, which is why I write this.
Many black women seem to feel they have to be strong. You do not hear that so much from white women. That gives some black women a hard edge. They often come off seeming hard and overbearing even when they do not mean to. That gives the stereotype an element of truth.
But just because there is some truth to it does not mean it is completely true.
Some of it is just pure stereotype. For example, where white women are said to be “independent”, black women are said to be “emasculating”, robbing their men of their sense of manhood. Where white women are said to be standing up for themselves, black women are seen as wanting a fight. And so on. The same actions are read differently.
This makes it harder for black women to become leaders. Think if Hillary Clinton and Michelle Obama were both running for president. They would not be judged the same way. Think then of what must go on inside businesses where women are trying to move up.
The Sapphire stereotype also hurts their chances of getting married. What man would knowingly marry a woman like this? Black men sometimes use it as an excuse to go after white women. For many white men it is one of the main things (but not the only thing) that keeps them away from seriously dating black women.
In my own experience the Sapphire stereotype seems to be the most true to life.
Yet, even so, the Sapphire stereotype seems to be cut from the same cloth as the Jezebel one: Just as Jezebels are blamed for their rape by white men, so Sapphires are blamed for the weak position of their men in society – instead of blaming the very same white men!
In the Moynihan Report in the 1960s the government wanted to know why blacks were so poor. Part of the blame went to a form of the Sapphire stereotype: the Matriarch.
See also:
Abagond 
Sapphires are blamed for the weak position of their men in society – instead of blaming the very same white men!
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I would be careful with that one. Black women say they need to be strong because no one else will take up for them. Black women have to raise children on their own and provide for their families. A man should be a man and take care of his resposibilities and not blame it on white men(that is ridiculous). It is 2008 not 1968 yes there is racism and there is no denying it. However that has not and never will stop a determined black man to accomplish anything he wants. With that being said I still feel like black women need to stop being so hard. You can be strong and take care of yourself without emasculating your men. Your strength should be a more quiet inner strength not a loud, over bearing, always have to be right strength.
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@ yaz: Rightly or wrongly so, black women *are* blamed for the futility of black men. I can see both sides of the argument, honestly.
I don’t understand why ‘strong’ seems to be interpreted by so many women as being disagreeable, combative, argumentative and stand offish. Those characteristics would indicate to me that the woman is not strong but insecure.
I’m fortunate to know women who are driven, accomplished, self-sufficient and intelligent (my take on being ‘strong’). Most of them are black but some of them aren’t. Race notwithstanding, those are the women I’m content to be around.
The loud, neck-rolling, hip shifting woman who always has beef … I table my meetings with her for never.
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I am gong to let you finish analyzing the stereotypes until I post about them, but I think this could be the start of an interesting discussion.
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Whatever happened to judging people by the content of the character and not the color of the skin?
Whatever to judging people as Indivisuals and not by race?
Just because one or a few black women does/act a certain way that still don’t give you or nobody else a right to judge black women in general. Most black women are not like Omarosa, New York, etc. If they are then it’s probably because of the crap they have to put up with. How does Michelle Obama fit into this catagory? She’s an intelligent, sweet, and beautiful woman that stands by her husband’s side. I’ve never seen any snide impression of her and I highly doubt anybody has either.
Tichina Arnold’s Pam was a character. How did she fit into the character? The only person she was sick of was Martin. Yes Omarosa acts a fool and couldn’t win for nothing, New York’s a fool but why is it that black people point out the negative people but ignore the postive ones. Oprah, Tyra, Halle, Beyonce, Whoopi, Rolanda, Cathy Hughes etc. Are those women your stereotypes? No but instead you rather focus on stereotypical ones.
I can expect anything from whites because what they say nor what they think means absolutly nothing. Some of you blacks I expected so much better.
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Unique: Yes, of course, people should be judged individually. And yes, of course, most black women are not Sapphires. The point of this post is that many black women will be misread according to this stereotype.
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Gina: I saw your blog while reading about Shirley Q. Liquor. Keep up the good work!
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LH and yaz: I agree. A woman who is truly strong would not act like this. Sapphire behaviour is driven by insecurity and fear, not strength.
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Thank You, Abagond. You’re right alot of black women will be mislead if they choose to live up to this stereotype. It’s their job that these women won’t fall for it.
As a black women, I don’t act like this and neither does my friends. We’re living just fine and it’s looked up too. I also agree that people who act like this is really insecure.
We got to do better and we can!!
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I thought your site was really informative.I am currently writing my master thesis on self esteem in african-american girls, and I am having a hard time finding research. Mainly because our plight is rarely researched, wonder why? Negative perceptions of African-American women are prevelent so much with our young people–I think b/c they don’t know the orgins and young girls tend to perpectuate these myths from generations of mis-info/lack of info. I believe African-American women are so strong, so powerful and due to receive the respect that we have never be given. thank you, for your information.
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Glad to be of service. Good luck on your thesis. If you want me to write about a particular subject, I am opened to suggestions.
You might be interested in these posts too:
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2007/12/27/the-missing-white-woman-syndrome/
The Missing White Woman Syndrome
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2008/02/15/henry-louis-wallace/
Henry Louis Wallace
And there is the whole issue of beauty:
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2007/05/26/race-and-beauty/
race and beauty
And so on…
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It just seems like we are at the bottom of the barrel(according to society). Out of all the races it seems that blck women are considered the “least” attractive, desirable whatever, White girls wear weaves…noone cares, but we do it & all hell breaks loose. Maybe sometimes we act like that because we feel like we have to defend ourselves because noone else will, because like you said..black men don’t want us, white women think they are better( because ppl KEEP telling them they are), white or other men don’t want us so…it’s like everyone is against us! WTF! WHY ARE THERE SOO MANY RULES FOR US!!
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I feel they are using Mrs. Obama to get to Senator Obama. They have always used the black women to get to our black men, and to divide our families. If they can weaken her, they can weaken him. Because they know that together they are a force hard to beat. Black women have always been strong and kept the family together, inspite of the lack of support we have had from society and the Church. Yes, we have had to be strong. I say to Mrs. Obama don’t let their opinion of her, define who she is, a good person.
They used the comment about Mrs. Obama to define her as being “un-American.” Well, people in America has not always done things to blacks that it can be proud of, especially in the polical arena. It is not surprizing that Mrs. McCain has “always been proud of American,” she has benefited all of her life from being a white women with money. I find it interesting that the media can’t see this, or can they?
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That is strange! I noticed the very same thing!
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2008/06/21/in-defence-of-michelle-obama/
https://abagond.wordpress.com/2008/06/21/cindy-mccain-always-proud-of-her-country/
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I doubt the media sees that difference between Cindy McCain and Michelle Obama. They do not see McCain as white and they see both of them as having the best America has had to offer – so of course they should be proud, both of them. They are surprised by Michelle Obama’s lack of “patriotism”. It seems ungrateful.
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Hey, its just a stereotype….we have to be strong becuz we have to deal w all this
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What is the name of the study done in 1993? I’d love to read it for myself
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I am sorry but I am confused!…you put Mrs. Obama as being close to this?! This article is bordering on obscene! When you see a strong woman who isn’t ghetto, not docile, and is a leader (who happens to be black)…YOU GIVE HER THIS?!
If she were white, she would have be given a CEO position.
I am sick and ready to throw up on the black women who agree with this article.
“You’re right alot of black women will be mislead if they choose to live up to this stereotype… As a black women, I don’t act like this and neither does my friends. We’re living just fine and it’s looked up too. I also agree that people who act like this is really insecure.” – YOU ARE KIDDING ME!!
Granted there are some women (Amarosa) who fit this. But if you can actually remember the show “Martin” Pa,m only argued with Martin because they didnt like each other and Cole because he was an idiot. She was a loyal friend to Gina and dated the bald one (cant remember his name). She was independent, worked hard, and smart (SHE GET’S THIS?!) COME ON!
There are alot of white female characters in TV like Pam- you dont considered them ball busters.
This made me sad
study “showed that nearly all of them saw black women as Sapphires to some degree. It seems to be common among black men too. I am guilty of it myself, which is why I write this.”
Who are all you ppl that are supporting this article?!
I don’t understand why being strong and having a backbone make you a Sapphire…aren’t we now more evolved that we have more to Black women than being: sex obessed, docile, ghetto, or now Sapphire?
Why could we be seen as smart, strong, and independent without being ball busters.
you know what… in the end if most men feel this way and can’t handle it. I think we Sapphires are better off without them.
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About Michelle Obama and the Sapphire stereotype:
I wrote this post back in March 2008. Back then people did not know much about her and, given that the stereotype is out there and given that she is a strong black woman, as they say, she could have wound up being seen as a Sapphire. It was one of the rocks her ship had to avoid. If you ask her I am sure she will admit as much off the record.
Do I think she is a Sapphire? Did I ever think of her that way? No. In this post I simply point out that it was a danger she faced.
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Are black women with some backbone seen unfairly as Sapphires? Of course. Are the same sort of white women seen this way? No. It is a racist stereotype.
The whole thing about stereotypes is if you are anything like one of them, then others will apply it to fill in what they do not know about you. If you tell them they are wrong, that you are not like that, they will tend not to believe you.
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Are black women with some backbone seen unfairly as Sapphires? Of course. Are the same sort of white women seen this way? No.
*****************
Some “independent” white women are seen that way. Case in point, Hillary Clinton. The reaction against her throught her political life showed that some people saw her as a ball-buster. Is it as bad as what some black women go through…I don’t think so.
I’ve concluded that America just doesn’t like assertive women.
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“In my own experience the Sapphire stereotype seems to be the most true to life” Agreed. I just attended a hen party with a whole rack of ’em. Black couples need refreshers in the basics of effective interpersonal communication.
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Jimilee…care to elaborate?
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It is precisely through an acute awareness of the Sapphire stereotype that my mother consistently admonished me to be a lady while I was growing up.
Being a lady meant not being a loud-mouthed ghetto girl, sleeping around and getting pregnant by ten different men, and generally acting like an unrefined, ignorant fool.
If I am upset with someone I will not cuss them out in front of everyone, I will take them to the side and calmly give them a piece of my mind. I don not nag my man and treat him like a child, even when he is behaving as one.
I dress with class, I walk with class, I conduct myself as a woman with pride and class. I have never and will never be a sapphire, jezebel, or fat mammy.
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I’m not a loud person (no point in it really) I do believe there are times where its best to hold your tongue and there are times when you should say whats on your mind and if you don’t think it warrants diplomacy then follow your instincts.
On to my point though, there would be no racism if there were no self righteousness and hypocrisy. Race is only half of it, sexism is another. Emasculate? what is that really? And why is it pretty much only used when referring to a woman tearing a man a new one? Getting your feelings hurt is different coming from a woman? So black women are being told not to fall into the “Sapphire” bracket, which is just a nice way of saying, hey you need to fall into this bracket over here in order to be liked, after all, you don’t really add up to much if you never get a man and even more importantly, a ring on your finger. I don’t know who made these rules.
I’ve seen bad attitudes in a variation of vessels and I’ve also seen tremendous strength and to ask/demand a strong and opinionated person so act weak to make your life convenient just won’t work out. Just like you have lip servants out there talking about how they want racial harmony and don’t mean it, you have a lot of people who claim to want gender equality but simply can’t handle all that package will entail. Our life experiences and circumstances help shape who we are and to judge the effect without looking at the cause is just asinine. I don’t think I’ll ever understand black people who go on about being so mentally liberated in terms of skin tone and hair texture and blah blah yet clutch to religious beliefs that were forced down our throats by people who put shackles on us in the first place, the same ideas that greenlighted oppression/repression of people of different color and people of the female gender. This “Sapphire” stereotype is nothing but a way all this manifests itself.
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Good point: part of being a Sapphire is just sticking up for yourself. To see that as a bad thing is sexist.
Note that religion has been used on both sides. Christianity was used to make having slaves seem natural (as it is in much of the Bible) and yet Christianity comes with moral ideas that make it seem wrong. That is why the West has had periods in its history where slaves were rare – like now and in the Middle Ages.
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I’m going to repeat what someone else said because I’m also interested.
“What is the name of the study done in 1993? I’d love to read it for myself”
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Well I am A 26 year old black male,, I notice my mom in public and outwardly seems to be some tough nail. But really she is the sweeties woman in the world.. lol .. I guess old habits are hard to alter.
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I wondered where this information came from: “A study done in 1993 of white American university students showed that nearly all of them saw black women as Sapphires to some degree”. I am a grad student doing research on this very subject and I would love to be able to read the article you got that information from. It would really help me out!
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Gen I agree with you in society pressure that a women is consider less that if she doesn’t have a ring on her finger.
Just like a man isn’t a man unless he’s physically strong and has status.
As a black man. I struggle the fact that even when I have reason to genuinely angry. That if I display it in the workplace I seen as an ABW. Some people think I angry anyway just because that how black people are/opposed to me be that way as an individual.
But there’s somethings we have to stop overanalyzing is biology. It’ been prove time and time again. Generally Women are attracted to a man’s masculinity like Men are attracted to your femininity.
I think we as black people emulate on television into acting out stereotypes growing up. You look on T.V. and say that’s a black person supposed to be. If we weren’t taught to the contrary.
As put the shoe on the other foot. Would you want a man who was aggressive all the time,arrogant,loud-mouth,always ready to start an arguement with you and never backed down or apologized even when he new he was wrong. Think about it.
I not speaking for all women but let’s face it Flavor Of Love shows weren’t made in a vacuum.
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p.s abagond I love you to do thread Flavor Of Love shows. Black stereotypes or reality or both?
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The Sapphire stereotype like the Jezebel and Mammy stereotypes were invented by American ANTI-BW RACIST/HATERS to justify the molestation, rape, and other heinous criminal acts commited by American White slave masters/WM against BW/Black girls. It was common for people to claim that BW/Black girls “couldn’t be raped” on the basis of these hateful/warped/ignorant ANTI-BW stereotypes.
It’s important to remember the historical context of ANTI-BW LIES, MYTHS, and STEREOTYPES so we don’t attempt to justify them.
There are women of ALL races who can be “loud, emasculating, ghetto, agressive/attitudinal”, etc. I find it interesting that many people want to pretend that ALL BW posess EVERY negative character trait imaginable but NO positive character traits (obviously a lie).
This ANTI-BW mindset is RACIST/SEXIST and needs to change.
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just curious is this stereotype also applied to some extent to latina women (i know they are not a race but still). I believe to some extent latino people are stereotyped as being ‘fiery’ and ‘passionate’ but I don’t think these associations are viewed as negatively with latino women as an ethnicity as they are with african women, for some reason.
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hmm it would seem this stereotype is associated with latino women to some extent aswell:
http://poorbuthappy.com/colombia/post/fiery-latina-tempertruth-or-fiction/
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Jennifer,
You are right: Latinas are sometimes seen as fiery or bossy, and often passionate. However, the stereotypes don’t go in the same direction as with black women. Maybe that’s because of Catholicism, which is seen as conservative and patriarchal?
But Latino men are also seen as oversexed, and sometimes are seen as a threat; however, they are more romanticized than black men whose sexuality is always seen as wild and always as a threat (while Latinos are sometimes seen as dedicated lovers, passionate but romantic).
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But Latino men are also seen as oversexed, and sometimes are seen as a threat; however, they are more romanticized than black men whose sexuality is always seen as wild and always as a threat (while Latinos are sometimes seen as dedicated lovers, passionate but romantic).
Antonio Banderas comes to mind
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ANY exotic women are seen as “firey and passionate” in the anglo cultural tadition. Slavs have been portrayed in precisely this way in the past, you might be interested to know, Mira.
It’s not odd, then, that black and latina women get painted with this same brush.
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Antonio Banderas comes to mind
True, but he is Spanish. Are Spanish people considered “Latino”?
Thad,
Slavs have been portrayed in precisely this way in the past, you might be interested to know, Mira.
Really? I thought Slavs were seen mostly as pathetic, not exotic other: not different enough to be mysterious, exotic and exciting, but not truly “equal and normal” to rest of Europeans to be seen as one of their own. (Same rule can be applied to Balkan).
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Also, note that black men are never really portrayed in this romanticized way (not that I know). Black women, yes. But not men.
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Russians? Are you kidding? You shopuld head on over to the Latineuro mail-order girlfriend website and see how they describe Russian women.
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ANY exotic women are seen as “firey and passionate” in the anglo cultural tadition.
Asian women are not seen this way…
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>>Really? I thought Slavs were seen mostly as pathetic, not exotic other: not different enough to be mysterious, exotic and exciting, but not truly “equal and normal” to rest of Europeans to be seen as one of their own. (Same rule can be applied to Balkan).<<
That was a good while ago, when the Ottoman empire invaded eastern Europe and took Slavic women as concubines and basically bred them the way light-skinned black women were bred as concubines in the American south. During the Western "Orientalist" fetish in the late 1800s, the Slavic women being kept as "oriental" concubines were considered "hot."
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@Gen
Asian women are not seen this way…
Gen, I listen to a LOT of sex tourists from Britain and the States. Go check out any sex tourism board you like and you’ll see descriptions of Thais and Chinese which you can easily mistake for descriptions of Latins.
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I did a quick Google search. Take a look at this:
“A large percentage of Russian women still retain traditional qualities that once were common among women in Western societies. Such qualities are very desirable in a potential wife and cherished by many men around the world.”
Rubbish.
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Yeah, Mira. That same comment, however, gets applied to Latin women on these sites. Would you like some examples?
The best example of this is LatinEuro. They originally started out virtually pimping Brazilian women. They had an entire series of FAQs to which they responded and, if I’m not mistaken, that quote you cite from eHow was originally part of their FAQ regarding Brazilian women.
Around about 2004-5, LatinEuro began to include Africa, Russian, and other Latin women on their site. At that point, the original FAQ list (which, remember, supposedly was Brazilian specific) was divvied up and pasted as headers across all of their new boards. So descriptions which originally were supposedly Brazilian-specific got slapped on women from across half the planet with no one noticing that anything at all was strange.
I still have the original LatinEuro FAQ around her somewhere and that quote re: Russian women is almost word for word what they said about Brazilian women.
You need to realize that for most anglos – and particularly for most Americans – the world outside the U.S.’ borders is basically a poorly defined Disney special effect. They see some big divisions: “Asian” (which apparently takes in everyone from India to Easter Island), “Latin”, “Russian” (which includes all you Slavs) and etc. Their knowledge of these divisions, however, is hopelessly inadequate and so vague and shifting that pretty much any nationality can be slotted in with any adjective, given the key characteristic of ignorance+exoticism.
So there are these ur-archetypes which anglos use to understand “exotic” women. they are universally understood to be sex kittens and yet traditional; submissve and yet sexually aggressive; fiery and passionate and yet level-headed and family oriented; traditonal, yet willing to toss tradition to the winds and hie off to foreign lands with a guy they barely know…
The list of attributed characteristics goes on and on and I can find you examples of all of them being applied to African, Latin, Slav and Asian women of all types.
The key characteristic is that the woman has to be from a far away place of which little is known. Race is completely secondary in this game, as the exoticization of the slavs and the swapping of adjectives between Latins and Asians proves.
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Frex, here’s what a popular site says about Brazilian women in their column, “Advice for American Men Dating Brazilian Women”:
Finally the good stuff: because of the strong sense of family and their natural warmth, Brazilian women are very loyal, family oriented, feminine looking and affectionate companions!
Sound familiar?
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By the way, I love these sites which describe human beings as if they were breeds of dogs.
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Yeah, Mira. That same comment, however, gets applied to Latin women on these sites. Would you like some examples?
Hey, don’t get me wrong, I never thought it was Russian- women specific! I know there is a lot of rubbish going on about other “foreign” women. What I didn’t know is that Slavs are considered exotic- I thought it was along the lines of pathetic. (it’s no way better this way, but I thought it was different).
But we are getting (somewhat) off topic here. I am interested in learning more about this stuff, so if you have time and will, you may contact me via my email (it’s pretty easy to guess the address).
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From my own observations of media representations I actually believe that asian women are portrayed in two opposites, sometimes they are portrayed as matriarchal and fiery and a bit kookey; this is often how a thai mother is portrayed. But then for some odd reason you also have the contrast of the quiet and submissive asian woman.
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Hmmmm…. In my culture Asian women are seen similarly to other “foreign” women: as oversexed.
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This is one of those stereotypes that really strips black women of their individuality and it sickens me because we get it from ALL angles; whites, blacks, asians, whomever.
It’s to the point where I’m basically like “Screw it. If I’m damned from the start, I might as well have fun with these sheeple before I die.”
To this, I had a friend who once commented on how the attributes attributed to red-headed white women that leave many in love with them, writing poetry about them, gracing romance novel covers with them- are often the EXACT SAME charecteristics that black women are lambasted for.
Let’s not forget the “down white/asian girl” who can often be just as tasteless, classless, and downright obnoxious as the stereotypical “chicken head”, yet will be given a pass by black men purely because of their lily pure paleness and the assumption of submissiveness that comes with it.
And I can’t tell you how many times I’ve received cold receptions at parties, social gatherings, places of employment etc because people ASSUME I’m going to be difficult when the most common thing that comes out of my mouth is “Oh yeah, no worries mate!” My reputation precedes me and I didn’t even get to make it.
It sometimes feels as if black women have to wear many masks in this country, just to exist, to appear non-threatening, to make EVERYONE comfortable with the fact that we exist. The moment we DON’T all hell breaks loose and we’re quickly, either verbally or physically, reminded of why we’re so undesirable in the first place.
I refuse to live that way.
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Quote from Dr. Marc Lamont Hill:
“Since slavery, Black women have had to withstand rape, torture, and humiliation (from both white and black men) in order to sustain their families.”
http://www.bvblackspin.com/2010/06/09/slim-thug-marc-lamont-hill/
The above quote is just one recent example out of many that came to mind…
It seems as though the rape of Black women is being acknowledged for the horrendous act that it is. That being said, the blatancy and frequency of stating so has fostered some insensitivity towards the victims of that act. Also, the silence on the historic and present rape of Black boys and men cultivate a sense of alienation between the two genders.
In light of these atrocities, Black women should be expected to be as Jezebellish as necessary in order to be heard and seen and not ignored. After all, No means NO – but emphasis is better than soft spoken speech in such an environment.
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Hi Everyone.
This is a very interesting topic. As a South African, nothing much I can say regarding this issue because it is not a problem at all in South Africa, possibly because we (blacks) are the majority. However, listening to you guys have given me a clear picture about how black women are viewed in the US. I find it hurtful to hear that black women are viewed in such regard in the US. I think black women are marvelous people and they are easy to get along with. As has been pointed out by many commenters, this stereotype indeed is enformed by Anti-black racist thinking so as to break down our families. Black women are the epitome of strength and beauty and I feel we as black men are not doing enough to protect our wonderful sisters so that racists faul in their attempts.
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@ shaka zulu
thanks for the compliment i agree, but you got to water the flowers for it to grow.
yes you do have some women that behave in this manner. but i can only speak from a black woman perspective because i am a black woman. i’m not saying that the behavior of these woman is right, but you have to look at the history of this country. black women endure alot of abuse, and ridicule by white men, white women, other races and black men. overall society.you also have to include lack of education, cultural transmission,poverty,dysfunctional families and being the head of household.
alot of black women had and have to be their own man. a man and woman at the sametime. provider, protector, and nurture. alot of black woman feel like they are being step on and bullyed by their society. i think black men in america feel this way as well and some of them behave in this manner as well. its just viewed differently by society.
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Shaka Zulu says,
However, listening to you guys have given me a clear picture about how black women are viewed in the US. I find it hurtful to hear that black women are viewed in such regard in the US. I think black women are marvelous people and they are easy to get along with. As has been pointed out by many commenters, this stereotype indeed is enformed by Anti-black racist thinking so as to break down our families. Black women are the epitome of strength and beauty and I feel we as black men are not doing enough to protect our wonderful sisters so that racists faul in their attempts.
laromana says,
Shaka Zulu, thanks for your honest, positve PRO-BW comments. It’s DISGUSTING to see how ANTI-BW RACISM is used to CONSTANTLY TRASH the HUMANITY, DIGNITY, and FEMININITY of BW, while MOST BAM either say/do NOTHING to DEFEND BW or ACTIVELY/PUBLICLY JOIN in with the ANTI-BW attacks.
Like you, I believe that if the MAJORITY of BM in America let the WORLD know that they WON’T STAND for ANTI-BW RACISM, the HUMANITY, DIGNITY, and FEMININITY of BW would be MORE RESPECTED/ADMIRED.
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About the Sapphire stereotype being used by BM as an excuse to say why they don’t date BW: In either the March, April or May 2010 issue of Essence, a woman who was against IR relationships said that she’d been talking about BM not dating BW when a nice-looking BM came up to her, talked to her, and asked her for her e-mail. She gave it to him, and that night she got a horrible e-mail from that same guy, giving her all sorts of reasons why BW were horrible and couldn’t get men period, let alone black men. I think that some black women become stronger and tougher so they can’t get hurt. In those cases, it has to deal with insecurity, but in America, what BW doesn’t really have some insecurities? What woman, doesn’t, really?
BTW: Lanaroma, I know you’ve been asked this before, and I’m not trying to be abrasive or hurtful (like certain others have been recently–noname, cough–have been), but why do you use so many capitals? I know you’re free to use whatever way of responding you want to, but I think it’d be more effective to just say @whoever wrote the comment you’re talking about: I think etc… It’s kind of hypocritical, considering what I just wrote in the above paragraph, but I think it seems like you say the same stuff over and over again, and it’d be a bit easier for people to take you seriously. I sound like a b**ch, I know, but that’s what I think, and I’m trying hard not to be hurtful.
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My God! Arrgh! Your name is Laromana! I’m so sorry! If you don’t take me seriously now, it’s fine; feel free to ignore the girl who didn’t spell your freaking name properly.
I usually don’t swear, but dammit!
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Halisi said,
I know you’re free to use whatever way of responding you want to, but I think it’d be more effective to just say @whoever wrote the comment you’re talking about: I think etc… It’s kind of hypocritical, considering what I just wrote in the above paragraph, but I think it seems like you say the same stuff over and over again, and it’d be a bit easier for people to take you seriously. I sound like a b**ch, I know, but that’s what I think, and I’m trying hard not to be hurtful.
laromana says,
I don’t have a problem with your misspelling my screen name or your question regarding my use of caps/repetition of certain comments on my posts. I use both for emphasis and to drive home certain points to ANTI-BW HATERS on this blog who need to be confronted in a strong manner.
As a long time poster on abagond’s blog, those who know me, don’t make an issue of either practice.
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Okay! Thanks for explaining and not being mad at me. Whatever makes you happy 😀
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@Torchandlyre….girl, that is the TRUTH.
I happen to be a biracial woman with very fair skin. But I’m still discriminated against in this society.
Like you said, I feel like I have to be careful at how I present myself at ALL times because I never know when I will be accused of being a bitch with a bad attitude for no reason.
It has happened so many times. 😦 And the reality is that I don’t have an attitude problem at all.
I’m shy, quiet, and reserved. I’m not perfect but I have a kind heart. I’m generally not a mean, nasty person.
I’m capable of getting loud when someone disrespects me but I rarely raise my voice in anger.
I try to treat others the way I want to be treated. But I get frustrated when people want to claim that I have an “attitude” for no reason.
It all comes down to stereotypes. Just because SOME Black women have attitudes doesn’t mean that ALL Black women do.
I’ve been around plenty of mean, nasty women of all kinds…bad behavior isn’t exclusive to one group.
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this commercial fits perfectly into the sapphire stereotype: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVQrH0aHGAc
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I’m a dark skin black woman and I have a soft voice and I think stereotyping could explain alot. Because I’m dating a white hispanic male. It all begin 3 years ago when he told me how happy he was to be with a black female without a attitude. I allowed my first love to do whatever he thought was best for him, even though it lead to a planned but no marriage pregnancy. I never complained. Now, I do wonder if race has anything to do with it based on what most people of lighter complexion say to me. I just ignore them. Alot of people say that I’m too nice. My friends are mixed. Asian,black,hispanic and white. But, yet they agree that I could have spoken to him about his decisions a little more. My point is that Not All Black Females are Loud and over spoken. I have seen quite a bit and I must say that race doesn’t matter. Some females of ever race have a over spoken attitude. And some do not.
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I think more support of black females could really make a difference. Starting with the theories of black women behavior. How can little girls grow up to be a happy woman when she have always heard negative remarks from people when they try to get to know some one of another race. I just think the race card is down grading for blacks. And it makes me sad to see my brothers with so many different taste in women. But, share a common problem. Attitude, demanding and posessive females. Some are white, hispanic and black that they date. Trouble seems to head their direction every single time. Now, I must agree that it all begins with some black guys who continue speaking so badly of black women. Yes they could be mad. But, they must give the next female a second chance. She could really be some one who’s dedicated to making their relationship work. My boyfriend he only dated females of other race. He was my brother best friend. And let me tell you. From what he and my brother spoke about, they embarassed him alot in public. Flirtatious with strange men, argued in the grocery store and cheated. I guess he didn’t know what to expect with me. Especially since his family only befriend hispanics. A black female with a attitude is what he explained to me recently when I spoke about going back to college to complete my bachelors degree since my daughter is going on 2 years old. I remember him warning me that his father didn’t like black people. But, I would have never imagine my love saying that to me. I just wish that all of those negative remarks could go away for the better of things. And black women could be left alone.
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abagond did u know the jim crow museum referenced ur blog: http://www.ferris.edu/jimcrow/sapphire/
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Another interesting thing about this stereotype is that a lot of men, particularly black men, will say that the ‘Sapphire’ character is why they don’t/won’t date black women – but then those same men will date a white or latina woman with those EXACT SAME characteristics that they claim to abhor in black women! If a behavior is a deal-breaker then it wouldn’t matter who acted that way, they would be seen as ‘undatable’ and ‘unapproachable’, no? Excuses, excuses, excuses…
Regarding the Pepsi Superbowl ad: I admit that I didn’t see it at the time it aired, but have since looked it over and was disgusted and dismayed. I find it fascinating that the only ‘controversial’ Super Bowl ad making daily waves is a Groupon ad with Timothy Hutton, which seems to diminish the trials and tribulations of the Tibetans.
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Abagond & Family:
“Deconstructing The Black Male/Inter-racial Dynamic”
1. All blackmen navigate between ‘Black Love & Inter-racial Lust.”
2. Blackmen have the upper-hand in IR relationships, because they’re blackmen.
3. Blackmen can bed as many non-black women as they want to, and still run back to blackwomen at the end of the day.
4. Whitewomen and other non-black women are jealous of blackwomen, but lack the courage to admit it.
5. Just because non-black women don’t give a damn’ about their men, doesn’t make it okay for them to interfere in the affairs of blackwomen and blackmen.
6. Blackwomen won the war. Whitemen traveled all over the globe raping african women. If whitewomen are a notch above sistas, Why did whitemen rape so many blackwomen?
7. Blackwomen are the “Crown Jewel” of humanity. All men want to have her, and all women want to be in her shoes.
8. Any blackman that says he loves black people but doesn’t love blackwomen is full of s**t. If they have issues with being real blackmen they should be upfront about it instead of assaulting black womanhood. There is no middle-ground when it comes to blackwomen……A blackman loves them 100% or not at all.
Tyrone,
Don Aquarius
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Abagond & Family:
“Deconstructing The Black Male/Inter-racial Dynamic 2.0”
9. Whitewomen in the Middle-East and Latin-America look like blackwomen, but they’re still white. Looking like blackwomen doesn’t stop them from being jealous. They get old and wrinkled just the same as european and north-american whitewomen.
10. Blackwomen in latin culture are brainwashed to hate their black brothas for the benefit of non-black latinos. They have mixed babies with white and mestizo(indian&white) men as if these men were brothas themselves. Negritas provide the genetic blueprint, blancas and mestizas reap the benefits. American blacks outside of Miami and New York should know the ugly truth about white latin culture.
11. Blackwomen are the most powerful and influential group of human beings on the planet, but knowledge of self is required to take advantage of their blessing.
12. The powers-that-be on the planet aren’t afraid of blackmen, they’re afraid of blackwomen. Well behaved negroes can be controlled with drugs, alcohol, and sex. Black culture is matriarchal in it’s design and practice. Self-hating blackmen are “useful idiots” to non-blacks.
13. Crime Inc. harms and kills blackwomen…Hip-Hop Inc. degrades and exploits blackwomen for the financial benefit of white liberal men in New York and LA. Marginalizing blackwomen benefits whitewomen and other non-black women who lust blackmen. Sports Inc. exploits the sexual prowess of blackwomen in the hood and suburbs as well. Sistas provide a steady stream of apex black male athletes, but all of the sideline reporters are whitewomen, all of the cheerleaders are whitewomen, all of the female anchors at ESPN and Fox Sports are whitewomen. Blackwomen provide the labor, but can’t benefit financially from their creation…The Blackman!
14. Blackwomen love blackmen, but not all blackmen are worthy.
15. Every blackman on this planet came out of a blackwoman’s belly, and therefore, they have the right to claim each and every one of us.
16. In closing, blackness is the ultimate aim and objective, never forget that my sistas, Never!
Tyrone,
Aquarius Vision
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sepultura13 says,
Another interesting thing about this stereotype is that a lot of men, particularly black men, will say that the ‘Sapphire’ character is why they don’t/won’t date black women – but then those same men will date a white or latina woman with those EXACT SAME characteristics that they claim to abhor in black women! If a behavior is a deal-breaker then it wouldn’t matter who acted that way, they would be seen as ‘undatable’ and ‘unapproachable’, no? Excuses, excuses, excuses…
Regarding the Pepsi Superbowl ad: I admit that I didn’t see it at the time it aired, but have since looked it over and was disgusted and dismayed.
laromana says,
sepultura13,
ANTI-BW RACIST BM and ANTI-BW RACISM are both DISGUSTING. ANTI-BW BM who condone/promote ANTI-BW RACISM may as well be white supremacists because they’re USEFUL IDIOTS for ALL ANTI-BLACK HATE groups.
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Black men will forever hate themselves and will always blame black women for it..they are mentally weak.
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“Black men will forever hate themselves and will always blame black women for it..they are mentally weak.”
I don’t think this is necessarily fair. My father is a black man and once of the strongest, most educated, loving men I know. My fiancee says he’s almost like a “Jewish mother”
“Are you wearing the long johns I gave you?”
“Yes daddy, thank you.”
But he’s a different breed of man, in general. He doesn’t require the degradation of women to feel uplifted. I’ve never ONCE heard him say that were it not for “black women doing [blank]” he would have been able to achieve [blank]. But some blokes ARE notoriously angry and lazy, while being completely willing to put the burden of them being men on the backs of their women.
We’re not the only culture experiencing this either. In Japan, marriage rates are steadily declining as more women are refusing to “raise” a grown ass man and their children. It’s not enough to have a penis anymore and even though societal expectations help do some of the work of keeping women “in their place”- the internet and various activism movements have made it impossible to keep us from realizing that we deserve better.
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Thank you so much for this article, It made me realize that subconsciously I bought into this stereotype. It showed me the true nature of these ideas I unwittingly harboured about black women. I have not approached a black woman I found attractive on several occasions out of fear that expressing any interest would provoke a verbal assault on me akin to the one in your video. Now I can work on overcoming this unfounded predjudice, and stop limiting myself.
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Interesting post, though I don’t agree with it entirely. I think “Sapphires” are mostly just a result of bad experiences with men–as a means of trying to protect themselves from being or feeling used or walked over, and this def. crosses racial lines frequently….only thing is they are not called “Sapphires” or thought of in that way–very weird when they’ve both experienced that same happenings, both act on the defensive (therefore having similar behavior), yet be viewed so differently.
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The opposite of the black Sapphire is the white Feminazi.
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Abagond:
Blackwomen are the only innocent victim in “The Matrix.” Whitemen, whitewomen, and blackmen have contributed to the suffering of blackwomen on this planet. We overlook this fact as blackmen and black folk in general. Sistas have been used and abused by all 3 parties. Blackwomen are not the problem, other folk are the problem. Whitemen don’t have control over blackwomen anymore, they’re pissed-off about it. Whitewomen know that their white fathers, brothers, and others built their empire on the backs of blackwomen…they also know that blackwomen made them relevant on this planet as it relates to all things female. Blackmen have been conditioned to dislike or hate blackwomen by whitemen and whitewomen both…both parties have selfish interests involved. This explains the marginalization of blackwomen in media, but, the same bs is not applied to blackmen, Why? Blackmen who don’t love blackwomen are useless to our race, whites and others understand this about us as blackmen. Also, whitemen and others want access to blackwomen as well. In order for them to get what they desire, blackmen have to be neutered in the process…Castrated! All of the overhype about black male criminals, athletes, rappers, and so-called mandingos plays into the hands of other men who only see us as roadblocks. In essence, most of the bs that sistas deal with on this planet is about their sexuality as african women. Men want access and control of black female sexuality and women want blackwomen to be neutralized for fear that the men of their race will leave them for blackwomen. Sex is the catalyst for most of the insanity on this planet, and blackwomen are front and center on this issue. As a blackman, i know how the game is played. Do blackwomen know? Blackwomen must have control over their sexuality. I’m not gonna tell a sista who she can or can’t sleep with, but, they shouldn’t prostitute themselves for no one…blackmen, whitemen, asian men, etc. As it relates to other women, they know the deal. I don’t have to waste time on that issue. “The Sist-A-Cracy” is real to me.
Tyrone
Black Eros Movement…Black Brown & Gold…Respect The Flag
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Has anyone else seen the Cleveland bus driver uppercut video? Now that’s some stereotypes being played out right there, loud mouthed, ghetto black woman, and violent, ignorant black man. It’s white Americans favorite images of black people all in one place, confirming and justifying their predjudices. I think that’s part of why the video was played so much.
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When I sat confirming and justifying, I don’t mean it seriously, I mean it in the sense that one example of these stereotypes being true to life will be taken as proof that their prejudices are founded.
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I have been in such situations myself! I notice that it mainly applies as a bandage to plaster over white racism. Like for instance, whenever a white person does something wrong and a black woman so much as points it out or complains, other whites will use it like an ad hominem to state that the white person was innocent. Basically it’s sort of like what Abagond said about “A White Woman’s Tears” if they can make it seem like they are victims, they can get sympathy from other people which hides their true nature.
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Also: edit: do you guys think the stereotype will fade out in time?
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From laromana:
AJ says,
I have not approached a black woman I found attractive on several occasions out of fear that expressing any interest would provoke a verbal assault on me akin to the one in your video. Now I can work on overcoming this unfounded predjudice, and stop limiting myself.
laromana says,
AJ, it’s very encouraging to see you choosing to reject brainwashed/anti-BW thinking and opting to establish respectful/caring relationships with BW instead.
It’s this proactive, positive, evolved attitude on your part (and men like you) that has the power to revolutionize the way BW are viewed/treated in American society.
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I’m sixteen years old and African-American. Otherwise known as, black. Yes, black women can and will come off as harsh but then again, so can any woman of any race. Oh, key words “any other race”. It’s because of the pure reason that my skin is a different color then your’s that I must be discriminated against. This is absolutely hilarious. Although a “black woman” can come off as emasculating, a “black man” can come off as disrespectful. Think of all the things a African-American and a woman has been put through before you open your mouth to let out uneducated assumptions about anyone.
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This in my opinion is an unfair stereotype. If a woman is a strong and independent woman and she just happens to be black this labels her a sapphire or a bitch. This is such a patriarchial society and this society wants to put labels on black women who have suffered under this white supremist system we live in this country. And they label First Lady Obama with this negative label because she is educated and strong. Why is that viewed as esmasuline? All though there are quite a few females that have these characteristics, I feel it’s unfair to say this is true of all black women.
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@Mary Burrell
I agree.
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One of my favorite of many commenters and there are a few. But phoebeprunelle called it right. The opposite of the black sapphire stereotype is the white woman as a feminazi. You have Rush Limbaugh to thank for coming up with that term.
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its a shame ppl can’t decide what they want from ppl.One minute they say black women are welfare queens and need to be educated and take care of ourselves.The next they are saying we are too strong and independent and need to be less masculine.Since when is surviving and taking care of your family being masculine.Black women are taught to be strong and independent,we are told to be prepared and not depend on anyone because nothing is free.Mixed messages are so confusing.Yes there are some sapphires in the black race but there are also sapphires in other races too.When latinas are sapphires they are labeled as having that latin fire and being spicy. when white women are sapphires they are labeled as being justifiably angry.When asians women are sapphires they are labeled as being a little cranky.BUt you let us black women just not smile and ppl say we are being a bitch.
Its a shame some black men ,some not all will agree with these ppl.Its like some of them only care when it affects them.If black men were to be labeled a thug and rapists those same black men that agree with those ppl about black women will say no that is not all black men,yet they can’t give the same benefit of the doubt to the sistas.I’m the kind of person that if someone says somehting about black men i will confront them even if im not a black man myself because i have black men in my family and therefore i will take it personal.
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As a seventeen year old Black teenage girl, I have had a classmate that irrirated me say that I always look like I am mad at him. Well I guess we was using the Mad Black Woman stereotype on me without even realizing it. Honestly I was upset for days over what he said but that classmate always likes to bring me up in class and annoy me.
Honestly, I think the Sapphire sterotype is a very hurtful sterotype about Black women. There are non Black women are fit this stupid sterotype too but they don’t catch hell for it as much as Black women who fit the sterotype.
I am not excusing Black women who fit the bill because they are an embarrassment to my race and there is good and bad women in ALL races.
No, I don’t try to be the angry type. I don’t yell at men and talk to them in a rude way at all. I try to be nice to everyone. I am actually shy and rather quiet for the most part. I speak up for myself sometimes. People assume that I look mad without even knowing me at all. I am also very sensitive and don’t take criticism and cry easily if you get me upset enough.
I guess it is because I hate the small Forrest Gump like town I live in so much and want to go back upnorth.
I really wish people can stop sterotyping people without even knowing them.
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@ Adeen; Unfortunately these ugly stereotypes will not die an easy death. Your mission in life if you choose to take it, Is to rise above all the negativity. Recognize what is true and what is false and learn it. Life is crazy. We live in a patriarchial society. So as a female and a black female you will learn about all the isms including racism. There is classism and and because of your gender you will still have to fight.
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@Mary
Well said but if I tell any of my Caucasian peers this, they would tell me to get over it and that racism is over bla bla bla. They can’t relate to my experience at all.
Worst of all, Black guys who have liked are afraid to approach me. I don’t bite!
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@ Adeen; That’s why we have blogs like this. You should go to Brotha Wolf’s blogsite. It is very helpful. As well as Kushite Prince and Diary Of A Negress. These are great blog sites to discuss the plight of our people. Peace and Blessing my young friend.
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I really do feel for black women because they have to hold the ground. Sometimes you have to be the arms akimbo type you are the first and last defense of your children. Don’t tell me that white aren’t like that also I was a history teacher in America before coming to Japan. White women will get in your face just as bad as any black woman would about their kids.
When I was younger the block I was on was the middle class island. In other words the first blacks that had moved in before white flight took in full effect. The other blocks around us were either barely making middle class or lower class. There was always fights in our neighborhood because all the other kids thought we were rich. Eventually, we did make friends from the other blocks but it was hard going and I never truely fit in. I was considered an Oreo and even on my block I got teased bad but when the other block kids were trying to beat me up it was our eldest girl that stepped in to put that down. She was only a few years older than me but she was mighty. I have said it before any black man making fun of black women is a knucklehead, didn’t he have a Mom and would he say the same thing about his sister, absolute knucklehead.
I once heard this Chinese view on ying and yang. It stated that Yin and Yang where male and female and when the male in female were equal it was harmony, but a lot of males like girls who have not full formed and so they are weaker so they could dominate that Yin. There is no harmony there.
I wouldn’t want a weak woman as the last defense of my progeny. I want someone who knew that if you have to be Sapphire then be it. I hope I am man enough to know that no one can emasculate me, only I can do that to myself. I didn’t marry a black woman not because I feel they are Sapphire but because I have been working abroad most of my adult life. The few black men and women I see we greet each other in passing but we are hard working and rarely have free time.
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Thanks for writing this article. Now I understand why some people (of all races) were so offended when I told them my birthstone was a sapphire after they asked. I never meant to upset anyone and always wondered why it was offensive. To me a sapphire is just a gem stone that I’ve mostly seen in blue. If I’m ever asked that question again I’ll be more careful when answering it.
I wasn’t aware of the stereotype before but I don’t think anyone deserves it.
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Thank you for spreading the knowledge, for I fitted the Sapphire stereotype all the way. Now I’m working on being more feminine!!!
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Can I know your name as a reference? I’m writing an essay for my senior high school final and I need to properly site your blog.
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@ Arie
Julian Abagond.
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I enjoy reading your posts. I’m a white guy, who’s always been attracted to black women. I have been studying the 16 personality types (MBTI) for some time now. Most blacks in America are SJ types. I would say that 90% of the black women who are stereotyped as “sapphire” are ESTJ or ISTJ personalities. Michelle Obama is a classic ESTJ type. Women with these two personality types come across as hard, bossy, domineering, outspoken, unsympathetic, and not very romantic. They just want to get things done. They are just being themselves. That can be a beautiful thing.
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Sounds like a stereotypal description of any Russian wife after her fourties by her average Russian husband.
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If the Russian wife traded the ahole in for a younger model, she’d be much happier! Look at Macron’s wife, she’s ecstatic!
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Macron just followed his schoolboy’s dreams together with his illusions of permanence the best he could.
But, again, ¿why didn’t he find a younger woman of the same appearance?
You westerners seem to be so mysterious, no matter American or French.
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@ Herneith
Why trade in the older model when he can work to support both you and the newer toy? Throw in a third husband to clean the house and you’re all set. Polyandry rules!
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@ Solitaire
Move to Portland, Oregon to make that happen. Polyamory/Polyandry is big in that city.
http://www.sexpositiveworld.com/one-woman-many-men-not-as-rare-as-anthropologists-originally-imagined/
Husbands one, two and three should all work outside of the home. They can then chip in for a twice weekly housecleaning service, so no one has to clean the house.
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@Solitaire
As a Russian saying goes, ‘it’s ok for a key to fit any lock, but there’s something wrong with a lock that can be opened with any key’
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@ A Russian Nagpo
As the character Sportin’ Life sang in the movie, Porgy and Bess, “it aint necessarily so”.
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@Afrofem
What’s a lock that can be opened with any key is good for, ¿then?
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Hmm, maybe the woman has three keys on her keychain and keeps them securely on that ring, and they don’t go unlocking anything without her say-so.
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@ Afrofem
“Husbands one, two and three should all work outside of the home. They can then chip in for a twice weekly housecleaning service, so no one has to clean the house.”
Excellent idea. But they need to be working different shifts. At least one of them needs to be at home to massage my feet and run my bath.
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Is anyone else starting to feel like Russia is the new Ireland?
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@ A Russian Napgo
I posted my answer here:
https://abagond.wordpress.com/open-thread/comment-page-1/#comment-377449
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@Solitaire
1) Hmm, maybe the woman has three keys on her keychain and keeps them securely on that ring, and they don’t go unlocking anything without her say-so
2) Is anyone else starting to feel like Russia is the new Ireland?
1) Sounds perverted enough for me 😀
2) I always felt that way; 😀 alcoholism, street fights, white slaves, lost pagan tradition that is still somewhere deep down in the abyss of the mass culture, great literature heritage, a language that’s difficult for foreigners to master, and unashamed disrespectful elder women …
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@ Solitaire
LOL!!!
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Well, isn’t that special. It’s LOM all over again but wearing a fur hat instead of a shamrock.
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@Solitaire
I’m so much obliged for you flattering me again so much indeed, dear, because I really beleive that An Scríbhneoir Gael-Mheiriceánach, the person you or someone else here had provoked to be aggressive in response to your or someone elese’s passive aggressivity, hidden insult and false understanding is Mr Stephen Edwin King himself 😀
My own works are not so famous or talanded, and yet–
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Wow, all this from The Sapphire Stereotype – a type of woman that gets sick and tired of all this nonsense and says so.
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@dorisjean
It’s rather from different MBTI (personality) profiles.
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A women’s four favourite animals:
A mink, a jaguar, a tiger, and a jackass.
A mink in the closet.
A jaguar in the garage.
A tiger in bed.
A jackass to pay for all the above.
Tried but true.
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@Herneith
Here’s another from the international joke classics.
A man spoused a woman whom he thought to be a perfect life companion for him, because she was acting like a queen with guests, like a chief in kitchen and like a prostitute in bed.
Naturally, as it is the case with all mundane things, after some years they broke up.
When asked what went wrong, the man answered that at some point she just got it all mixed up in a sad way and started acting like a prostitute with guests, like a queen at kitchen and like a chief in bed.
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well it’s pretty clear (to me anyway) that scribh wouldn’t have anything to do with the demonic sigils, worshipping the pope as he does, but otherwise!
and i think me and the old lady are pretty well equally yoked regarding being loud etc.
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I think Solitaire was trying to say that she’s getting more and more vexed by my sagacity the same way she was by scribh’s (and that also explaines why she was trying to start her small baizuo crusade referring to me as to a dumb White to wipe me off this blog; but a native English speaker would have clearly noticed difference in speech patterns and linguopsychological profiles of scribh and mine. Also, typos and grammatical slips differ (if scribh ever did any).
But, again, if scribh is a Catholic, then he doesn’t have to be Mr King (though I don’t know ,much about King’s religious believes and his books often demonstrate a Catholic point of view… or a Buddhist point of view, for that matter).
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Nope. All I was trying to say is that with LOM it was constantly “Ireland Ireland Ireland” and with A Russian Nagpo it is constantly “Russia Russia Russia.”
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@v8driver
‘and i think me and the old lady are pretty well equally yoked regarding being loud etc’
Sorry, I didn’t dig this part of your mesage.
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I don’t befriend non black women I socialize with them and keep it moving being friends I don’t trust them if it’s at work a different thing socialize socialize that’s it a friend no.some may think I’m jealous that’s not the case I just read between lines.yoday Latinos want to be white as snow.
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